[00:10] <Bozza> i need a linux server OS, talk to me
[00:47] <pmatulis> Bozza: ?
[01:42] <bitfury> hello, any known problems with gre tunnels in ubuntu server 14.04?
[01:43] <bitfury> I've set up a gre tunnel between an ubuntu server and router, the tunnel comes up but can't ping either end point :\
[01:43] <sarnold> bitfury: I don't recall any complaints recently
[01:45] <bitfury> when I ping the remote end point from the ubuntu box, they show up as errors on the tun1 interface
[01:48] <sarnold> can you pastebin 'ip link' or 'ip addr' output on both endpoints? perhaps there's something one of could spot
[01:50] <bitfury> sure thing, I have a cradlepoint router on one end so I'll try to enable logging.
[01:51] <Bozza> selinux is developed by the nsa. while app armour is made by canonical. which is more secure?
[01:51] <sarnold> Bozza: you should pick the tool that is better suited for your needs.
[01:53] <sarnold> Bozza: if you need a labeled security mechanism then selinux is a better fit. if you want to confine some services or some users or specific programs, you might prefer apparmor.
[01:53] <sarnold> Bozza: selinux has had confinement of more resources for longer; apparmor is just now growing confinement for e.g. abstract and unnamed unix sockets. if you need a more comprehensive containment mechanism, selinux may be a better fit.
[01:54] <Bozza> is it not kind of sketchy that selinux is developed by the nsa?
[01:55] <sarnold> Bozza: I may be biased towards apparmor because I've been working on it for fourteen years :) but I think more users would see more benefit to using apparmor despite the reduced mediation interfaces. I believe apparmor policy is easier to author and easier to understand.
[01:55] <Patrickdk> it is
[01:55] <Patrickdk> selinux is based on the acl design
[01:55] <Patrickdk> and while that is nice
[01:55] <Patrickdk> it's not easy to maintain
[01:56] <sarnold> Bozza: no. the guys from the NSA who worked on SELinux are charming individuals who honestly believe in information security. they wrote it in part so that the US government would have tools to use for classified information storage and to make other vendors put in some effort to take security seriously.
[01:57] <sarnold> Bozza: and of course since the full source of both systems is peer-reviewed before being integrated into the linux kernel, there's enough oversight that backdoors would be immensely difficult to build into either system.
[01:58] <Bozza> yea, this sounds like the most reasonable explanation
[01:58] <Bozza> this is if you have enough knowledge to read complex kernel code
[01:58] <Bozza> surely there are enough people who do review it though
[01:59] <sarnold> thankfully the kernel portions of both are overall easier to read than e.g. networking or block storage layers :)
[02:00] <Bozza> you actually know the guys at the nsa who wrote it? what are you, gchq? :3 . do you guys get together for tea and discuss security? :)
[02:00] <Bozza> selinux by nsa. app armour by gchq .. large range of solutions to choose from
[02:00] <sarnold> Bozza: hehe, I don't work for gchq; we worked with them to help define the linux security module interface a dozen years back, so we'd get together at Ottawa Linux Symposium to discuss features, designs, etc.
[02:00] <Bozza> just joking :)
[02:01] <sarnold> Bozza: rofl
[02:01] <Bozza> :D
[02:01] <Patrickdk> sarnold is mi5 :)
[02:01] <sarnold> Patrickdk: you know people confuse me for daniel craig all the time..
[02:01] <Bozza> hehe
[02:03] <sarnold> Bozza: poke around in your /etc/apparmor.d/ directory and see if you find the policy understandable or not; then poke around in the selinux policy on a fedora system... pick whichever one is easier for you to understand and whichever feels like it'd be easier to write your own policy
[02:04] <Bozza> thanks for your help sarnold
[02:04] <Bozza> yes i will take a look
[02:04] <sarnold> Bozza: have fun :)
[02:04] <Bozza> hehe
[02:04] <Bozza> XD
[02:05] <Bozza> i just stumbled upon some articles about people wondering if selinux was an nsa backdoor
[02:05] <Bozza> so thought i would ask someone more experienced
[02:05] <sarnold> well, I'm just some jerk on the internet :) but selinux was designed by committed people who have a sincere interest in improving security.
[02:06] <sarnold> apparmor and selinux may 'compete' in many areas but in that area we are in firm agreement :)
[02:07] <Bozza> what does freebsd use?
[02:07] <Bozza> just out of interest
[02:07] <Bozza> apparmor?
[02:08] <Patrickdk> none of them
[02:08] <sarnold> the trustedbsd framework is apparently slightly similar to the lsm framework; they have an selinux-workalike, but I do not know if it is used much or not. they don't have apparmor, though it could probably be ported with a month's effort or two...
[02:09] <sarnold> as far as I know the only real consumer of the freebsd security framework is apple's "seatbelt" mechanism, which tags downloaded files with the site they were downloaded from, so when they are run, a dialog box can be popped up saying "this was downloaded over the internet"
[02:09] <sarnold> .. and apple's ios confinement thing, which looks a lot like apparmor did fourteen years ago...
[02:11] <Bozza> yea that dial box can be annoying
[02:12] <Bozza> wow you really do know your security code..
[02:12] <Bozza> iOS confinement . one would have thought it would be a bit more modern
[02:12] <bitfury> sarnold: sorry I took so long, my computer was acting up.. here's a pastebin: http://pastebin.com/g3yZekfL
[02:13] <bitfury> ubuntu server and router as GRE end points
[02:15] <sarnold> bitfury: dang, I can't spot anything. I don't know gre well enough :(
[02:16] <bitfury> :(
[02:16] <bitfury> not sure where or what to look for on the ubuntu box
[02:17] <bitfury> tried tcpdump but doesn't work on tun ifaces
[02:21] <hallyn> sarnold: isn't it freebsd that has capsicum implemented?
[02:22] <sarnold> hallyn: yeah, but I haven't read enough about capsicum :(
[02:22] <hallyn> sarnold: there'll be a talk at lss in 1.5 wks :)
[02:22] <sarnold> hallyn: hehe :) I'm not headed there though..
[02:25] <Bozza> selinux looks like a PITA to set up properly. might have to go with ubuntu-server when i deploy
[02:25] <Bozza> ubuntu has much better support anyway
[07:30] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:24] <abhishek___> hello everyone can anyone help ! I want to setup ldap authentication server for 5 lac users.please help me on storage calcultions
[08:28] <bekks> abhishek___: You wont need much, you have 5 users only.
[08:29] <abhishek___> actually I was planning to have 500000 users
[08:34] <abhishek___> bekks ar u there ??
[08:35] <bekks> 500k users? :)
[08:36] <bekks> Which kind of FC storage are you using, which kind of database, how many cluster servers, etc.?
[08:43] <abhishek___> we are using mdb and two culster will be there
[08:43] <bekks> Whats "mdb"?
[08:44] <abhishek___> bdb is default in openldap we are using mdb for greater performance
[08:45] <bekks> And what about my other questions? And how do you connect the network - 10GbE, fibre or copper, which backbone switches?
[08:45] <cfhowlett> bekks, 1 question at a time!?  Please  :)
[08:45] <abhishek___> 10GbE
[08:45] <abhishek___> fiber
[08:55] <bekks> abhishek___: What about my other questions? :)
[12:20] <noob2014> Good morning from Indiana - I have a noob question - hoping sombody willing to help?
[12:21] <lordievader> !ask | noob2014
[12:22] <noob2014> ok ty
[12:24] <noob2014> I installed Ubuntu LTS on a virtual machine, and then installed XFCE4, but when I try to start I get an error. "No command 'xinit:' found, did you mean:  Command 'xinit' from package 'xinit' (main)" was unsure if I needed to install some kind of virtual video driver but i done a search and said to ~$ sudo lspci | grep -e VGA -e 3D 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Cirrus Logic GD 5446
[12:25] <noob2014> so i'm searching and all i keep getting is but reports
[12:25] <noob2014> on google
[12:25] <cfhowlett> noob2014, when you try to start ... what?
[12:25] <noob2014> startxfce4
[12:26] <lordievader> noob2014: How did you install xfce?
[12:26] <cfhowlett> noob2014, logout.  choose xfce session.  login
[12:26] <noob2014> sudo apt-get install xfce4
[12:26] <noob2014> I am using putty to login remote
[12:27] <cfhowlett> noob2014, you've got a running unity DE.  logout.  choose the alternate DE.  login
[12:28] <noob2014> i'm not sure how to do that because it's on a virtual machine i'm on windows and login through putty. and i'm noob
[12:29] <cfhowlett> noob2014, use the ubuntu machine.  Log out.  click the ubuntu gear icon.  choose xfce session.  login
[12:30] <noob2014> no physical access i am trying amazon EC2 - it's free
[12:31] <noob2014> only option is putty
[12:32] <lordievader> noob2014: If putty is the only option then why are you trying to install a gui?
[12:33] <noob2014> well i thought it works with gui too
[12:33]  * cfhowlett ...
[12:34] <cfhowlett> noob2014, "real servers don't have gui's" or so I've read
[12:35] <lordievader> noob2014: No, you can do nasty things like X forwarding. But nasty things are nasty.
[12:43] <Patrickdk> if putty is the only option, your just dense
[12:44] <Patrickdk> I have used rdp, vnc, nx, and X forwarding, all from ec2
[12:44] <Patrickdk> not cause I needed a server with gui, but because I needed a desktop at amazon
[14:42] <wligtenberg> previously, I installed ubuntu server on 12.04 using the procedure listed here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/87241/how-to-install-using-btrfs-in-raid10-mode
[14:43] <wligtenberg> I am now trying to follow the same steps, but installation fails at trying to install the grub boot loader. I have tried it even with 5M of free disk space at the front of the disk, but it still fails. Is this grub2, which behaves differently from grub?
[14:44] <Patrickdk> defently
[14:44] <Patrickdk> but did you actually install grub2?
[14:44] <Patrickdk> or is the mbr still installed with grub?
[14:45] <Patrickdk> plus, 12.04 has grub2
[14:46] <wligtenberg> 11.10 did that also have grub2?
[14:46] <Patrickdk> I don't know
[14:46] <wligtenberg> ok
[14:46] <wligtenberg> Patrickdk: installation failed, so nothing was installed really...
[14:48] <Patrickdk> heh?
[14:49] <Patrickdk> you ran grub-install /dev/sd???
[14:49] <Patrickdk> and it failed?
[14:49] <Patrickdk> did you format your disks using gpt?
[14:49] <wligtenberg> the step in the installation which tries to install the bootloader failed
[14:49] <wligtenberg> I tried with partition table MSDOS and GPT, both fail
[14:52] <wligtenberg> Maybe I should try what some other guy did, install using ext4 on one disk. Then convert that to btrfs using a live cd and then later add disks and convert to raid1... (using dconvert)
[14:56] <TJ-> wligtenberg: when the grub install fails, open a terminal shell and look at the installer logs, they output all the commands run and capture errors reports so you can discover exactly why it failed
[14:56] <wligtenberg> Thanks TJ- I will try again and report back with the listed errors
[14:57] <FrankBlues> Is there a way to force all users to use the same windowmanager (Ubuntu LTS 14.04.1 with LTSP clients)
[15:23] <wligtenberg> @FrankBlues, just don't install any other window managers...
[15:23] <wligtenberg> (and prevent user from installing others)
[15:25]  * Patrickdk uses xterm for his wm :)
[15:40] <wligtenberg> @TJ- It mentions unable to connect to upstart
[15:40] <wligtenberg> and something like Wrong number of args: mapdevfs <path>
[15:45] <wligtenberg> seems I have issues similar to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/912431
[16:10] <VectorX> hi, i need to create a secure wb server running nginx and the well LNMP stack so to speak, which would include ssh, ftp, stuff like selinux or apparmour, mail etc, where would i find a good guide with detail explanation ?
[18:22] <wligtenberg> I ended up filing a new bug report as requested: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/1354730
[18:54] <darksider> hi all
[18:54] <darksider> can someone please point me to a program that allows network traffic logging?
[18:54] <wligtenberg> wireshark
[18:55] <wligtenberg> @darksider: wireshark
[18:55] <darksider> thanks guys, taking a look now
[18:58] <darksider> wligtenberg: is this a GUI app?
[18:59] <wligtenberg> @darksider: yes it is
[19:00] <darksider> no good then, its for a server :)
[19:00] <wligtenberg> @darksider: http://www.wireshark.org/docs/wsug_html_chunked/ChCustCommandLine.html
[19:00] <wligtenberg> :)
[19:00] <wligtenberg> @darksider: Seriously, I just googled that...
[19:02] <darksider> wligtenberg: me too and saw that link, but having command line options doesnt take away the GUI part
[19:03] <darksider> wligtenberg: for your future reference http://www.wireshark.org/docs/wsug_html_chunked/AppToolstshark.html
[19:04] <wligtenberg> I was just going to mention that :)
[19:04] <wligtenberg> (googled some more)
[19:04] <wligtenberg> so tshark should be your friend
[19:06] <darksider> let's see - while my server is idle, i get lag spikes
[23:48] <Forex> hi folks
[23:48] <Forex> who here used those folks http://www.server4you.net/vps/
[23:50] <Patrickdk> !best
[23:50] <Patrickdk> most likely, no one
[23:52] <Forex> lol
[23:52] <Forex> prices seems good
[23:59] <darksider> hi guys


[11:34] <Matvie> hello please block the nick ytrewsd
[11:34] <Matvie> DMs people with profanity
[11:35] <Matvie> guys where are you? he continues!
[11:35] <ytrewsd> Matvie: hi
[11:36] <ytrewsd> Matvie: problems from someone
 my use case is specific and crucial
[14:23] <bazhang> netflix crucial!
[14:23] <bazhang> go to defcon ONE
[14:23] <k1l_> thought the same
[14:24] <bazhang> @random crucial nope emacs
[14:24] <bazhang> what!
[14:25] <Pici> @random netflix hurd
[14:25] <Pici> :O
[14:25] <chu> You hate me ubottu.
I know nothing about emacs
[14:26] <bazhang> bwahahaha
[14:26] <chu> lol
[14:28] <bazhang> is cobradabest a bot
[17:46]  * genii ponders "ubuntu is moving away from linux"
[18:25] <Flannel> genii: It's only a matter of time until the Buran kernel becomes a thing.
[18:28] <phunyguy> high-five k1l_
[18:28] <k1l_> *5*
[18:29] <k1l_> and now i am away again
[18:29] <phunyguy> new to this hexchat thing... used wrong macro, but our forces combined to make a master race.
[18:29] <k1l_> phunyguy: i use the xchat script "chanserv.py" from seveas in hexchat too
[18:29] <phunyguy> same, just used the wrong command.  ☺
[18:30] <phunyguy> coming from quassel.
[18:30] <k1l_> you came to the good side of the force :)
[18:30] <phunyguy> did /cs ban vs whatever the kickban one is
[18:30] <k1l_> /cs kb nick
[18:30] <phunyguy> danke
[18:55] <genii> tux38 seems to have turned his attentions to #android now
[23:04] <hggdh> oiz9: hello, is there anything we can do for you?
[23:05] <hggdh> @login
[23:05] <hggdh> @btlogin
[23:09] <hggdh> oiz9: otherwise, please /part. This is a no-idling channel.
[23:13] <hggdh> argh! I *really* have to revisit my macros


[01:41] <mtaylor> jelmer: how hard is it to use the rewrite plugin to go through and replace the committer on a bunch of revs? (as in, retroactively fix someones commits who had never done bzr whoami...) ?
[03:00] <jelmer> mtaylor: you'd have to patch it to do something like that
[03:00] <jelmer> mtaylor: it shouldn't be too hard to do using a patch, but it's not possible using the current UI
[03:02] <mtaylor> jelmer: ok. good to know
[03:02] <mtaylor> jelmer: I may poke at that at some point - I think I'd like to make a pass on our tree to clean up a bunch of revs that have bogus people having committed them
[03:09] <jelmer> mtaylor: this will affect the revision ids of all revisions since the first that is changed, of course.
[04:32] <echo-area> Hello, I upgraded to bzr-2.2.0 on my Windows machine, and then get this error every time I execute bzr: "Unable to load plugin u'rebase'. It requested API version (2, 1, 0) of module <module 'bzrlib' from 'C:\Program Files\Bazaar\lib\library.zip\bzrlib\__init__.pyo'> but the minimum exported version is (2, 2, 0), and the maximum is (2, 2, 0)"  How to resolve this?
[04:38] <echo-area> I see that rebase is now renamed to ``rewrite''.  Could I simply remove the subdir `rebase' in plugins?
[04:39] <echo-area> I've done that and don't see problems.  I think it works
[04:39] <fullermd> Yes, the plugin was renamed.
[19:08] <nprasath002> Does netbeans has a bzr plugin? is the developement still active?? where can i get it??
[19:44] <lifeless> nprasath002: I'm not aware of one; it would be awesome to have one.
[21:51] <snowdrop> I did a "checkout --lightweight" but can't commit to it, get the followin error msg: "bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir() "
[21:52] <snowdrop> any pointers? (And yeah, I'm new to bzr... only had some experience with SVN before.)
[21:53] <mgz> checkout from a branch you can write to, which means not over http.
[21:54] <mgz> if you used a lp: shortcut, this means running `bzr launchpad-login` and setting up ssh, then doing the same thing again.
[21:56] <snowdrop> mgz:  i see....  is there a way to change the http:// stuff in the branch I already checked out?
[21:56] <snowdrop> mgz: So i don't have to check it out once again?
[21:56] <mgz> `bzr pull --remember lp:<sameasbefore>` should work I think.
[21:57] <snowdrop> mgz:  thanks.. on it.
[21:58] <snowdrop> mgz: Hrm.. "bzr pull --remember lp:~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/" gave me same error.
[21:59] <mgz> did you do `bzr launchpad-login <yourid>` first?
[21:59] <mgz> you need the ssh access rather than the http, is our aim here.
[22:00] <snowdrop> mgz: Should I use my personal ID, or the groups id? Cause " lp:~wtdevs"  = the group (wtdevs), while my personal ID is "snowdrop".
[22:00] <mgz> your personal id.
[22:00] <snowdrop> mgz: snowdrop@snowdrop:~/WTactics$ bzr launchpad-login snowdrop
[22:00] <snowdrop> snowdrop@snowdrop:~/WTactics$ bzr pull --remember lp:~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/
[22:00] <snowdrop> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
[22:01] <mgz> okay, try... `bzr switch lp:~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/` instead
[22:01]  * mgz doesn't use checkouts much
[22:02] <snowdrop> mgz: Ah.. success!
[22:02] <snowdrop> snowdrop@snowdrop:~/WTactics$ bzr switch lp:~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/
[22:02] <snowdrop> Tree is up to date at revision 13.
[22:02] <snowdrop> Switched to branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wtdevs/wtactics/trunk/
[22:02] <mgz> good good, and now, if you've made changes, and run `bzr diff` you should still see them
[22:04] <snowdrop> mgz: Since I did a "checkout --lightweight"... all my "commits" directly upload to launchpad, right? (kind of SVN)? In contrast to when I used "branch" and they were done locally?
[22:05] <mgz> yup. you should think about changing how you work, but this preserves the svn style for now
[22:09] <snowdrop> mgz: Thanks a bunch. =)
[22:09] <snowdrop> mgz: If you take paypal I'd happily buy you a coffe... have been wasting 7h on this... = P
[22:11] <mgz> I'm good for coffee but feel free to email "Martin Pool<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and say how helpful I was :)
[22:11] <snowdrop> = ) will do.
[22:15] <snowdrop> done.
[22:26] <vila> mgz: ping, just passing around, were did you end up with garyvdm on the windows installers ?
[22:26] <thumper> I wish windows would sort out the ssh support
[22:27] <thumper> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/125565 for anyone who knows putty
[22:27] <mgz> vila: he's got one built that looked solid, but he hit another issue that I couldn't reproduce here
[22:27] <vila> thumper: hey ! Feeling really optimistic for a monday morning... windows and sort out in the same sentence... :D
[22:27] <mgz> I'll try and catch up with him on it when I see him in the channel next
[22:28] <vila> mgz: Thanks. I'll try to read the log tomorrow so use my nick when you think I should double-read ;)
[22:29] <mgz> I've got another testtools change babune will want, to deal with the log oddness we were seeing on maverick
[22:30] <mgz> might see if I can track down the timings thing as well tonight.
[22:30] <vila> I don't quite get what happened here and whether there is a way to address this kind of issue that delay the official announce for a single installer... but we should definitely think about it ;)
[22:30] <vila> mgz: you mean the leaks ?
[22:30] <vila> the log leaks that is ?
[22:31] <mgz> yup, that jam was nibbling at the other end of.
[22:32] <vila> ha, I wish there was an option to keep the log for successful tests, pqm is one thing, babune is another and even if hudson doesn't provide access to this yet...it's a shame to not collect it anymore ;-/
[22:33] <mgz> yeah, I think we can back out the hacks but keep the tests for that change when we fix some other things in future
[22:33] <vila> I didn't have the time to follow more closely and I
[22:34] <vila> 'm wondering which object is responsible for or can introduce a variation in the way such test attributes are handled...


[10:09] <ion> http://github.com/ion1/vim-highlight Output syntax-highlighted HTML version of input using Vim
[10:11] <ion> (There are syntax highlighters for a huge amount of formats in Vim)
[11:21] <Keybuk> ion: we could do with one for Upstart jobs ;)
[12:16] <johnflux> hello?
[12:16] <johnflux> the channel is very quiet :-)
[12:17] <johnflux> anyone around?
[12:30] <Keybuk> hello!
[12:31] <johnflux> :-)
[12:31] <johnflux> Keybuk, just wondering if dbus support has been added yet
[12:31] <Keybuk> yes, that was added in 0.5.0
[12:31] <johnflux> the front webpage says it has, but there's no mention on the wiki on using it, and I can't find it running "qdbus --system"
[12:32] <johnflux> ah
[12:32] <Keybuk> many distributions still use 0.3.x though
[12:32] <johnflux> yeah
[12:32] <johnflux> that explains why I don't have it in ubuntu
[12:32] <johnflux> so..  does this mean that as a normal user I can see what services are running?@
[12:32] <Keybuk> correct
[12:32] <Keybuk> though that is also true of 0.5
[12:32] <johnflux> can I map it to a PID?
[12:32] <Keybuk> which limits method calls to root only
[12:33] <johnflux> even dbus calls are limited to root only?
[12:33] <Keybuk> yes
[12:33] <Keybuk> though it's possible that 0.6 may open up the "status information" calls
[12:33] <johnflux> hmm - can I use policykit or something to get permissions to use it?
[12:33] <johnflux> without having to prompt the user each time
[12:33] <Keybuk> since they're done through the Properties interface now
[12:33] <Keybuk> PK support is somewhere on the wishlist
[12:33] <johnflux> I'm the maintainer of the 'task manager' thing in kde
[12:33] <johnflux> so it shows the list of running processes
[12:34] <johnflux> it would be nice to also show the list of running services
[12:34] <johnflux> and to map between them
[12:34] <johnflux> so that when you right click on the apache process, you could kill it properly, rather than sending a signal
[12:35] <Keybuk> *nods*
[12:35] <Keybuk> tell you what, after a few seconds thought, I'll definitely agree that the properties interface will be public
[12:35] <Keybuk> plus the "Get" interfaces
[12:35] <Keybuk> since most of that detail shows up with Introspection anyway ;)
[12:35]  * johnflux nods
[12:36] <Keybuk> the root-only methods will be
[12:36] <johnflux> in particular I want to be able to get the pid
[12:36] <johnflux> would that be possible?
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.ReloadConfiguration
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.EmitEvent
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Start
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Stop
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.Restart
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Start
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Stop
[12:36] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Instance.Restart
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Set
[12:37] <Keybuk> and the public methods will be
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.GetJobByName
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.GetAllJobs
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetInstance
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetInstanceByName
[12:37] <Keybuk>   com.ubuntu.Upstart.Job.GetAllInstances
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll
[12:37] <Keybuk>   org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect
[12:38] <johnflux> .GetInstanceByPid  ? :-)
[12:38] <Keybuk> does that sounds reasonable?
[12:38] <johnflux> it does
[12:38] <Keybuk> johnflux: believe it or not, there's no such lookup path in Upstart ;-)
[12:38] <Keybuk> johnflux: though you're right - there should be - could you file a wishlist bug for that one
[12:38] <johnflux> Keybuk, right, I was hinting at adding it :-)
[12:38] <Keybuk> also can you file a wishlist bug for changing the D-Bus conf - pasting the above ;)
[12:39] <johnflux> what's the url for this bug reporter?
[12:40] <Keybuk> http://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart
[12:42] <johnflux> Keybuk, would i want getJobByPid   or GetInstanceByPid  ?
[12:42] <johnflux> instance?  both?
[12:43] <johnflux> I don't get the difference between instance and job
[12:43] <Keybuk> both technically
[12:44] <Keybuk> arguably that should return Job, Instance and Process
[12:44] <Keybuk> com.ubuntu.Upstart.LookupPid (Int32 pid) => (ObjectPath job, ObjectPath instance, String process)
[12:51] <johnflux> Keybuk, that's a suggestion for a new call?
[12:53] <johnflux> Keybuk, can a job/instance have an icon?
[12:53] <johnflux> for prettiness
[12:55] <Keybuk> icons are pretty much left to front-end implementation to decide for now ;)
[12:55] <Keybuk> it wouldn't be much to add an icon stanza like description and author
[12:55] <Keybuk> feel free to add a wishlist bug ;)
[12:55] <Keybuk> johnflux: right, given com.ubuntu.Upstart.LookupPid (1234) you'd expect a reply like
[12:55] <Keybuk>   ( "/com/ubuntu/Upstart/jobs/test", "/com/ubuntu/Upstart/jobs/test/_", "pre-start" )
[12:56] <Keybuk> ie. it says that pid 1234 is the pre-start process of the default instance of the test job
[12:56] <johnflux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/392500
[12:56] <johnflux> I can't work out how to make it a wish
[12:56] <johnflux> it didn't ask me
[12:59] <Keybuk> I can do that
[13:00] <johnflux> thanks
[13:03] <johnflux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/392502
[13:03] <johnflux> Keybuk, the other one
[13:03] <johnflux> Keybuk, I'm looking forward to making kde integrate nicely with upstart
[13:03] <johnflux> it could all come together in such a slick way
[13:04] <johnflux> Keybuk, do you know the status of other major distributions and upstart?
[13:04] <johnflux> Keybuk, redhat, suse etc
[13:06] <Keybuk> johnflux: feel free to add a wishlist for icon support as well
[13:07] <Keybuk> Fedora are using Upstart 0.3.x currently
[13:07] <Keybuk> I'm hoping they'll use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:07] <Keybuk> Ubuntu is using 0.3.x and will use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:07] <Keybuk> we had a productive discussion with Debian this week, and it's favourable for Debian to use 0.6.0 when it's released
[13:08] <Keybuk> I understand that RedHat will ship Upstart with RHEL 6, but not sure which version
[13:08] <Keybuk> a SuSE maintainer is pushing for adoption there
[16:59] <Keybuk> the only trouble with doing unit tests is you end up spending a day catching up on testing every time you write new code :-/
[17:47] <sadmac2> Keybuk: yeah.. its fun
[17:47] <Keybuk> of course, that's better than spending a week hunting down bugs you introduced
[17:48] <wasabi> Nothing to do with the conversation, but I find it interesting... sometimes unit tests aren't appropriate for just that reason.
[17:48] <sadmac2> Keybuk: lazy programmers write fewer bugs, but the industrious ones have less trouble finding them. Its cruel really.


[15:29] <Pici> bots updated with the new name and packageinfo updated and reloaded
[15:29] <Pici> please let me know if anyone wants me to change the default releases for any of their channels.
[15:30] <Pici> oh, I forgot to do the encyclopedia variables, I'll do those in a bit.
[15:38] <Pici> (done)
[17:56] <krytarik> Pici: http://paste.openstack.org/show/5NfQmCmzaH8RgWIq4puB/ - is a script for this we haven't got around to put into the ubot-scripts branch of the abandoned ubuntu-bots project yet - that includes the channels I remembered that want the devel release by default.  Also, the global default release is still on Artful.
[20:50] <ikonia> hello asdf-
[20:50] <asdf-> hello
[20:51] <ikonia> you're in #ubuntu-ops channel, is there something we can help you with, or do you not know how you got here ?
[20:52] <asdf-> no help is needed... thank you
[20:53] <ikonia> ok


[09:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T134: Calamares: Slideshow doesn’t show] apt-ghetto (apt-ghetto) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T134#2768
[10:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T134: Calamares: Slideshow doesn’t show] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T134#2770
 Do we have something about high dpi in the manual? @lynorian maybe this could complement https://forum.lxqt.org/t/detailed-guide-to-enable-high-dpi-scaling-on-lxqt/507/57
[11:00] <kc2bez> We should also consider the commit on that PR as a patch if it doesn't get merged (or a release in a timely fashion).
[14:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T134: Calamares: Slideshow doesn’t show] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T134#2771
 conman vs network-manager, I found this post that might be worth reading https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/06/intels-linux-connman-examining-the-pros-and-conns/
 Are you looking at switching for some reason?
 @UniversalSuperBox [Are you looking at switching for some reason?], We are kind of
 Is Ubuntu looking at switching for some reason?
 Nooope
 Thus my casual skepticism
 Okay, who's using ConnMan in production?
 agaida. :P
 And only agaida... :P
 Any distros?
 siduction
 ^ agaida's distro :P
 XD
 XD
 Also Purism, I think
 *grumble* *grumble* not a real distro *grumble*
 PureOS on mobile is plenty a real distro. Whether it can manage networks better than any other distro remains to be seen.
 What does ConnMan offer then?
 @UniversalSuperBox [What does ConnMan offer then?], better Qt experience than nm-tray, since nm-tray doesn't have connection editors
 also nm-tray lacks "ask for password" for vpn, not sure if/how connman habnldes vpn though and in my tests connman used more resources than gtk network-manager-applet
 So what's easier then, updating nm-tray or levering out NetworkManager?
 updateing nm-tray means, someone has to make the funtionality which upstream doesn't have time to
 Given upstream is like two people, I understand why
 we are currently delivering newtork-manager-gnome for complex connection editions
 for me the biggest issue is the "ask for password" for vpn, becasue the workaroaund are laucnhing nm-applet, commandline or saving them, the third deosn't work with 2fa which is a problem @teward001 mentioned (I've never used 2fa vpn)
 Does it use some sort of askpass program / do you have an askpass?
 using nm-gnome as an editor is good imho, beacuse ubuntu will do the maintenance of the vpn protocols.
 @UniversalSuperBox [Does it use some sort of askpass program / do you have an askpass?], Don't know, I haven't dig into it. Iv'e only seen the problem
 @UniversalSuperBox this issue https://github.com/palinek/nm-tray/issues/44
 @The_LoudSpeaker [To keep that ppa persistent across builds, change the pristine image. Right @tew …], correct.  You can enable the PPA as argument with an sbuild call, or you can run the mk-sbuild and then alter the pristine image (which I've done in 3 cases that're special case for certain backported envs)
 @HMollerCl [for me the biggest issue is the "ask for password" for vpn, becasue the workaroa …], Unfortunately it's starting to get more and more common.  Which is a problem heh.  But yes, it's an issue.
 one that there's a workaround for but... :P
[17:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T123: 20.04 Artwork] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T123#2772
 @kc2bez wxl: @tsimonq2 check phab notifs!
 @The_LoudSpeaker [@kc2bez wxl: @tsimonq2 check phab notifs!], No you :)
 @tsimonq2 [No you :)], There are none.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [@kc2bez wxl: @tsimonq2 check phab notifs!], Which one in particular?
 D60
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/D60
[18:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Needs Revision] Modified lubuntu-grub-theme: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D60