[10:14] <BUGabundo_work1> hi people
[10:15] <BUGabundo_work1> running ubuntu-umpc on a eeePC 901
[10:15] <BUGabundo_work1> can't seem to make the WiFi start
[10:15] <BUGabundo_work1> any tips?
[10:15] <BUGabundo_work1> linux-backporst is installed
[10:16] <BUGabundo_work1> asac: ping
[10:16] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: ping
[10:16] <BUGabundo_work1> playya: hi!
[10:20] <BUGabundo_work1> volume keys also don't work! :(
[10:20] <ogra> BUGabundo_work1, lsmod|grep ath
[10:21] <ogra> which ath modules are loaded ?
[10:21] <ogra> with l-b-m ath5k shold replace ath_pci
[10:21] <BUGabundo_work1> nothing
[10:22] <ogra> are you sure there is even an atheros card in it ?
[10:22] <ogra> (lspci should tell)
[10:22] <BUGabundo_work1> what card usualy comes on the 901?
[10:22] <ogra> no idea
[10:22] <ogra> i never touched a 901 :) i thought it would be atheros
[10:22] <BUGabundo_work1> Ralink 0781
[10:23] <ogra> oh, thats indeed quite different :)
[10:23] <BUGabundo_work1> hehehe
[10:24] <BUGabundo_work1> lots of small quirks with umpc
[10:24] <BUGabundo_work1> compiz-setting-manager won't let me press its icons (no idea why)
[10:25] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive
[10:25] <BUGabundo_work1> the ubuntu installer is a few pixels bigger that the window space available
[10:25] <ogra> try that driver
[10:25]  * BUGabundo_work1 tries stuff
[10:25] <ogra> yes, these are the drawbacks we want to get reports about for jaunty
[10:25] <BUGabundo_work1> what about sound keys?
[10:25] <ogra> some of the size issues are known already
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> this laptop is meant to a windows user!
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> not a dev...
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> should I try another OS?
[10:26] <ogra> but note that UMPC isnt designed for netbooks
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> eeebuntu, ubuntueee ?
[10:26] <ogra> it is for UMPCs :)
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> hehe sure ...
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> but I like it!
[10:26] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/TurnUMPCDesktopIntoNetbook
[10:26] <persia> Feh.  The difference between a UMPC and a netbook is fairly trivial.  UMPC ought work on the Eee.
[10:26] <BUGabundo_work1> it has a great look and its more optimize for this screens
[10:26] <ogra> that would give you a netbook desktop on a netbook after using -umpc for installing
[10:27] <ogra> persia, well :)
[10:27] <persia> But that's just a change of launcher.  It doesn't make the bits complained about work.
[10:27] <ogra> well, it will fix some of the size related breakage
[10:28] <ogra> a) it doesnt/cant use compiz
[10:28] <persia> a) isn't a good thing.
[10:28] <BUGabundo_work1> PPA added
[10:28] <persia> Won't fix size-related breakage for the earlier Eees.
[10:28] <ogra> b) the panle size is smaller, thus you get some extra pixels for the apps
[10:28] <persia> b) is a good point.  A better interface for app switching would be nice.
[10:28] <ogra> so many apps that actually break due to some stolen extra pixels will work
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work1> wait guys!
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work1> so I can turn the UMPC into a netbook?
[10:29] <ogra> BUGabundo_work1, i think you need to add a /etc/pm/config file with SUSPEND_MODULES entry for this module so suspend/resume works
[10:29] <BUGabundo_work1> and it has it advantages?
[10:30] <persia> Anyway, technically, the early Eees were UMPCs, rather than "netbooks", at least according to Intel's definition of "netbook".
[10:30] <BUGabundo_work1> thanks ogra... me looks for it
[10:30] <ogra> it has some advantages
[10:30] <ogra> in jaunty we will have a selection option to switch between UMPC and netbook desktops at install
[10:30]  * BUGabundo_work1 instaling RT deiver source
[10:30] <ogra> it also has some disadvantages :)
[10:31] <persia> RT driver source?  What?
[10:31] <ogra> i.e. if you prefer compiz effects, netbook desktop wont work with compiz at all
[10:31] <ogra> persia, dkms package for a driver we dont inclide
[10:31] <ogra> *nclude
[10:31] <BUGabundo_work1> for the wifi persia
[10:31] <persia> It's called "RT"?
[10:31] <BUGabundo_work1> at least the web cam works
[10:32] <BUGabundo_work1> rt2860-source
[10:32] <persia> Ah, ok.  The 2860 makes is less confusing.
[10:32] <BUGabundo_work1> DKMS running now!
[10:32] <BUGabundo_work1> not Real Time of course
[10:32] <ogra> persia, because it's for realtek 0781 cards :)
[10:32] <BUGabundo_work1> FWIR it doesn't even come on ibex kernel flavours
[10:32] <ogra> right
[10:33] <BUGabundo_work1> this DKMS thing is nice!
[10:33] <ogra> it will be in jauntys default kernel
[10:33] <persia> Makes sense.  When I hear "RT" I always think "realtime".
[10:33] <BUGabundo_work1> I know persia
[10:33] <BUGabundo_work1> that's why I corrected my self
[10:33] <ogra> dkms has its drawbacks ... but its nice if you have the ressources to compile stuff
[10:33] <BUGabundo_work1> it was another thread of thought started with ogra
[10:34] <BUGabundo_work1> examples of drawbacks?
[10:34]  * ogra wouldnt want dkms on a linux based mobile phone  ;)
[10:34]  * BUGabundo_work1 hates sudo without autocomplete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:34]  * BUGabundo_work1 looking for suspend config
[10:34] <ogra> "sorry, but you cant use your phone for the naxt 24h because there is a driver recompile in progress :P"
[10:35] <persia> I'm not sure I like DKMS for anything.  Some machines can compile faster, but there's no guard against dirty compilation environments.
[10:35] <BUGabundo_work1> eheh
[10:35] <persia> On the other hand, it does save *tons* of coordination on ABI changes.
[10:35] <ogra> yeah
[10:35] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: I've opened /etc/pm/config.d/00sleep_module
[10:35] <BUGabundo_work1> now what?
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work1> uncomment? the sleep_module line?
[10:36] <ogra> SUSPEND_MODULES="<module you want to unload on suspend/reload on resume>"
[10:36] <ogra> make sure that line is in there
[10:36] <BUGabundo_work1> I have no idea what those module are, until I debug hibernate!
[10:37] <ogra> well, i'd assume its called rt2860 or rt28xx or something
[10:37] <ogra> check with lsmod
[10:37] <ogra> i'm not even sure it *needs* unloading
[10:37] <ogra> so check that forst
[10:37] <ogra> *first
[10:38] <BUGabundo_work1> rt2860sta ?
[10:38]  * BUGabundo_work1 rebooting and testing suspend
[10:39] <BUGabundo_work1> I wonder if it is one of those modules that is making my own laptop not hibernate!
[10:39] <BUGabundo_work1> s/hibernate/suspend/
[10:39] <BUGabundo_work1> hibernate works with usw
[10:39] <ogra> do you use that driver on your laptop ?
[10:40] <BUGabundo_work1> usesusp
[10:40] <BUGabundo_work1> nope
[10:40] <BUGabundo_work1> intel wifi agn
[10:40] <BUGabundo_work1> ahhh wifi is now working
[10:40] <ogra> good
[10:41]  * BUGabundo_work1 suspending
[10:41]  * BUGabundo_work1 booting
[10:41]  * ogra only knew that the eee 1000 uses that driver... had no idea about the 901
[10:41] <BUGabundo_work1> resume works
[10:41]  * BUGabundo_work1 hibernating
[10:41] <ogra> good as well :)
[10:42] <BUGabundo_work1> need to place that function on the power button
[10:42] <BUGabundo_work1> btusb_intr_completre: hci0 ... failed to resubmit (2)
[10:42] <ogra> you can just switch the powermanager to always show the icon
[10:42] <ogra> thats bluetooth
[10:43] <BUGabundo_work1> taking toooooo long to hibernate!
[10:43] <BUGabundo_work1> it has 2GBs of RAM
[10:43] <BUGabundo_work1> and 2.5GBs of swap (on 16GiBs SSD)
[10:43] <ogra> well, it needs to compress all your dirty pages in ram to write them to disk
[10:43] <ogra> indeed that takes a moment
[10:44] <BUGabundo_work1> that's why I like uswsusp .... it compresss it, making it fast!
[10:44]  * BUGabundo_work1 hibernate done! booting
[10:44] <ogra> and breaks a hell lot of other stuff
[10:44] <BUGabundo_work1> 4GiBs of RAM to a SATA disk take 15 secs!
[10:44] <BUGabundo_work1> what does it break?=
[10:44] <ogra> right, but it breaks your framebuffer devicdes for example
[10:45] <BUGabundo_work1> never noticed it !
[10:45] <ogra> so i.e. usplash might hang your machine on certain HW combos
[10:45] <BUGabundo_work1> maybe my NVidia driver can handle it!
[10:45] <ogra> and there are a lot of other compatibility pobs
[10:45] <ogra> *probs
[10:45] <BUGabundo_work1> 16 out of 20 it hibernates just fine on my laptop
[10:46] <BUGabundo_work1> 2 / 20 it hangs after saving to disk (but boot OK)
[10:46] <ogra> if it wors for you, you are lucky ...its no option as a general distro solution though
[10:46] <BUGabundo_work1> 2/ 20 it won't start to hibernate or will kernel panic!
[10:46] <BUGabundo_work1> I know
[10:46] <BUGabundo_work1> I'm subscribed to the LP bug where it was discussed!
[10:46]  * BUGabundo_work1 systems boots fine!
[10:46] <ogra> and it doent help improving the kernel based suspend indeed
[10:46] <BUGabundo_work1> no need to had extra lines to pm
[10:47] <ogra> since it hides the probs so people wont report bugs
[10:49] <BUGabundo_work1> I'll have and eye on that when reporting bugs
[10:59] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: can the abrowser bottom bar be smaller?
[11:01] <ogra> you mean midbrowser ? i dont think so
[11:02] <ogra> i'd recommends firefox on a netbook anyway
[11:02] <BUGabundo_work1> ok
[11:02] <BUGabundo_work1> already installed
[11:03] <ogra> i will likely drop midbrowser from the umpc iage in jaunty and rather package the firefox grab and drag extension
[11:03] <ogra> midbrowser is really only good on hildon desktops, on a normal desktop you cant even reach the menu easily
[11:03] <BUGabundo_work1> quick steps to get netbook look?
[11:04] <ogra> look at the wikipage i gave you
[11:08]  * BUGabundo_work1 looking
[11:08] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: how many DPIs should I use?
[11:08] <BUGabundo_work1> the user/owner likes really tinny ... everything
[11:08] <ogra> what ever fits you ?
[11:09] <BUGabundo_work1> 72 is too small
[11:09] <ogra> 96 is the default afaik
[11:09] <BUGabundo_work1> and anything in between, I'm afraid it will break some apps
[11:09]  * BUGabundo_work1 trying 80 DPIs
[11:09] <persia> The DPI should be set based on your hardware.  Anything else *will* have font issues.
[11:10] <BUGabundo_work1> I know
[11:10] <BUGabundo_work1> that's why I asked
[11:10] <BUGabundo_work1> maybe I'll just lower the Font size!
[11:11] <persia> So, to determine DPI, use the pythagorean theorem.  Your dpi is the quotient of the square root of the sum of the squares of your horizontal and vertical resolutions and the size of your screen.
[11:12] <BUGabundo_work1> 1024*600
[11:12] <BUGabundo_work1> humm
[11:12] <persia> so sqrt(1048000+360000)/screen size
[11:13] <BUGabundo_work1> screen size on inchs?
[11:13] <BUGabundo_work1> 8.9-9" ?
[11:13] <persia> Yep.
[11:13] <persia> dots-per-inch
[11:13] <BUGabundo_work1> 131,87049389645064630519757706331
[11:13] <BUGabundo_work1> wayyyyy to big!
[11:13] <BUGabundo_work1> lol
[11:13] <persia> So about 132 DPI.
[11:13] <persia> Anything else will make your fonts look fuzzy.
[11:14] <persia> Note that there is a GNOME bug that means values other than 96 tend to make GNOME apps look bad.
[11:14] <BUGabundo_work1> actually 80 DPI (and even 72) are quite readble
[11:15] <BUGabundo_work1> Ubuntu studio instaled and I still get Human colours all around!
[11:15] <BUGabundo_work1> .gconf remove.... continuing with netbook personalization
[11:17] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: do I really have to turn off the 3D effects??
[11:17] <ogra> yes
[11:17] <BUGabundo_work1> it looks so nice with them!
[11:17] <ogra> the launcher will break if you use compiz
[11:17] <BUGabundo_work1> bah
[11:17] <persia> Then don't use the netbook launcher :)
[11:17] <ogra> right, tats the alternative
[11:17] <BUGabundo_work1> ill give it a try
[11:17] <ogra> use a native ubuntu desktop
[11:17] <StevenK> I quite like the gnome menu
[11:17] <StevenK> I might install Gnome Do on my Q1
[11:18] <persia> That's a nice idea.
[11:18] <ogra> we should probably look into it for jaunty :)
[11:18] <BUGabundo_work1> I have gnome do too
[11:21] <BUGabundo_work1> humm
[11:21] <BUGabundo_work1> I really am used to gnome panel look
[11:21] <BUGabundo_work1> will leave for the user to decide!
[11:34] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: any tips on how to get the volume keys to work?
[11:34] <ogra> no idea, sorry, you likely need an .fdi file for them or some such
[11:35] <BUGabundo_work1> so I better start loggin xrev keys ?
[12:01] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra should I file separates bugs against EVERY app that can't handle 1024x600 screens?
[12:01] <ogra> that would help, yes
[12:02] <ogra> though we're only intrested in the shipped set for now
[12:02] <BUGabundo_work1> stuff like installer, udpatemanager
[12:02] <ogra> installer is known
[12:02] <BUGabundo_work1> gnome sign in window
[12:03] <ogra> i wasnt aware u-m had issues
[12:03] <ogra> "gnome sign in window" ??
[12:03] <BUGabundo_work1> let me find the package name
[12:03] <ogra> what sign ?
[12:03] <BUGabundo_work1> lol
[12:04] <BUGabundo_work1> gdmsetup
[12:04] <BUGabundo_work1> this with netbook looks and ubuntustudio theme!
[12:05] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: you know what I miss with this window manager?
[12:05] <BUGabundo_work1> Super-L + F11
[12:05] <ogra> what does that do ?
[12:05] <BUGabundo_work1> with both metacity and compiz it makes most apps full screen
[12:05] <BUGabundo_work1> but maximus doesn't! :(
[12:05] <ogra> why do you need Super-L for that ?
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> LOL
[12:06] <ogra> F11 alone should do ... but thats app specific
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> F11 only works on FF, netbeans, and OOo
[12:06] <ogra> wors only for apps supporting it
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> as far as I know
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> but on metacity and compiz MOST apps will do that!
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> even if not supported!
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> give it a try
[12:06] <BUGabundo_work1> if can, of course
[12:07] <BUGabundo_work1> bah... how do I run gnome-applet on the netbook look?
[12:08] <BUGabundo_work1> I can't add stuff to the top pannel!
[12:08] <BUGabundo_work1> done!
[12:08] <BUGabundo_work1> removed window piccker, added gnome-apllet, readded window picket
[12:10] <BUGabundo_work1> uau 640MBs of RAM in use!
[12:10] <BUGabundo_work1> this is quite a light version!
[12:13] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: can't find a package for gdmsetup!
[12:14] <BUGabundo_work1> should I file against GDM?
[12:18] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra: I'm filling them under a tag
[12:18] <BUGabundo_work1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=small-screen
[12:22] <persia> BUGabundo_work1, What about the installer doesn't work at 1024x600?
[12:23]  * persia was fairly sure it worked at 800x600
[12:23] <BUGabundo_work1> it shops a tiny bit at the bottom
[12:23] <BUGabundo_work1> and keeps changing it possition
[12:23] <persia> Do you have a screenshot?  For which question?
[12:23] <BUGabundo_work1> up -> down -> up etc
[12:24] <BUGabundo_work1> not now persia
[12:24] <BUGabundo_work1> already instaled
[12:24] <persia> OK.  I did my testing at 800x600 (need to kill the lefthand bar to make it work), but didn't see that.  I'll try again.
[12:25] <BUGabundo_work1> if I manage to load umpc on qemu, I'll try to force the screen to 1024*600
[12:25] <BUGabundo_work1> but for some reason qemu takes agessss to load umpc
[12:25] <persia> Did you install kqemu-source?
[12:26] <BUGabundo_work1> note sure
[12:26]  * BUGabundo_work1 checking
[12:27] <BUGabundo_work1> it wasnt!
[12:27] <BUGabundo_work1> its installing now
[12:27] <BUGabundo_work1> never saw anything before recomending it!
[12:27] <persia> That should make qemu just a bit faster :)
[12:28] <BUGabundo_work1> I'm using -m 1024... that really helps! lol
[12:29]  * BUGabundo_work1 booting qemu
[12:30] <ogra> persia, it doesnt work if you have a panel stealing 24px more *and* use compiz
[12:31] <ogra> compiz has a bad habit of making windows "jump" up and down by the amount of missing pixels if you click them
[12:31] <persia> ogra, Ah, I haven't tested with compiz (no driver).
[12:32] <ogra> it looks like the compiz devs try to be overly clever but mess it up completely
[12:32] <persia> Which question?  The map, or others as well?
[12:32] <ogra> the main win jumps by about 3-5px
[12:32] <ogra> at least with a 48px panel
[12:33] <persia> For all the questions? (the window should be redrawn for each question).
[12:33] <ogra> it gets worse if you try i.e. xchat's settings window
[12:33] <ogra> it seems to use a min size
[12:33] <ogra> which seems to be more than 552 vertically
[12:34] <ogra> might be 550
[12:34] <ogra> err
[12:34] <ogra> 555
[12:34] <persia> There's nothing hardcoded, it's based on the content.  That said, the fix is different if it's some questions vs. every question (including the intro & summary).
[12:34] <ogra> its not that bad in the installer since it are only a few pixels
[12:35] <ogra> really bad are the ones where 50 or 100 px are involved
[12:35] <ogra> since you dont manage to click the buttons
[12:35] <BUGabundo_work1> fta: is there a way to start FF3 in full screen by default (on netbook) ?
[12:35] <persia> ogra, For which question?
[12:35] <ogra> persia, partitioning definatley
[12:35] <ogra> not sure about the others
[12:36] <persia> Does it work better if you wipe all the partitions from the target before the install, or does is show for any amount of content?
[12:37] <ogra> i usually do a guided full wipe install
[12:37] <ogra> in that it already jumps
[12:38] <persia> No, if you wipe it *before* you run the installer, so it starts wiped.
[12:38] <ogra> ah, never tried
[12:38] <BUGabundo_work1> lunch
[12:38] <persia> Right.  I'm trying to understand if it's the content overflowing, and extending the window, or if it's some other element that is pushing it too large.
[12:38] <ogra> i think its the content
[12:39] <ogra> but i think its noticeable in other windows as well ... i.e. the user setup
[12:39] <ogra> but thats only from the top of my head
[12:39] <persia> OK.  I can't replicate (no driver), so I need to rely on you to tell me which bits don't fit, and by how much, and whether it fits if you have reduced content.
[12:39] <ogra> i currently dont have a pre-written usb key handy
[12:39] <ogra> i'll do a test install later
[12:40] <persia> OK.  No big rush, but it ought be fixed, as that affects Desktop as well.
[12:40] <persia> For MID, it's probably worth writing a hildonised front-end.
[12:40] <ogra> well, you rarely have these biz panels on a desktop
[12:40] <persia> (which should run at 640x480)
[12:40] <ogra> *big
[12:40] <ogra> agreed
[12:41] <ogra> MID needs a *lot* of UI love
[12:41] <persia> Well, yeah, but it sounds like the problem is an interaction with compiz.  552 vs. 576 isn't that different.
[12:41] <ogra> its 24 px
[12:41] <ogra> which can be a lot if you have much content :)
[12:42] <persia> Well, the map ought be able to work at 552.  The rest is just a matter of understanding the possible content, and making scrollable areas when it's likely to exceed.
[12:42] <persia> On the other hand, if the keyboard selection question overflows, there's another class of problem that needs sorting.
[12:43] <ogra> thats only two scroled wins, shouldnt be to hard to resize that
[12:44] <persia> Shouldn't *need* to be resized, which is the point.  If that needs to be resized, there's something deeper wrong.
[12:46] <persia> Essentially, the container should fill the screen, and the scrollables sit in the container.  If they don't fit (they are dynamically sized), then the definition of the window is at fault.  Given that the window doesn't contain any hardcoded size, that's a compiz interaction, perhaps with devilspie.
[12:47] <ogra> devilspie doesnt do anything
[12:47] <persia> It doesn't ask for maximisation?
[12:47] <ogra> it just sends the maximize and undecorate commands
[12:48] <ogra> neither would have that effect
[12:48] <ogra> its compiz
[12:48] <persia> Right.  If the keyboard question doesn't fit, then there's a problem with sending those commands, and expecting the right result.
[12:49] <ogra> devilspie does nothing different from the maximize button in your app decoration, so if there is a WM error it has to be compiz itself
[12:50] <persia> Right, although there's no guarantee that the maximise button in compiz does the same as an external maximize directive.
[12:50] <ogra> well, its unlikely that it has any influence
[12:50] <persia> When I say "perhaps with devilspie", it's not that the bug is in devilspie, but that the bug may be especially exposed by devilspie.
[12:50] <ogra> and it works for other apps without getting jumpy
[12:51] <ogra> its really compiz trying to be clever where it shouldnt
[12:51] <persia> Because devilspie is sending WM events externally, whereas just about everything else is interacting with compiz directly.
[12:51] <persia> It's entirely a bug in compiz.
[12:52] <persia> For some questions, there might be something one can do in ubiquity to improve things (like location or paritioner), but for other questions, it's all compiz.
[12:53] <ogra> well, the jumpiness is the breakage here ...
[12:53] <ogra> might even be just a plugin i need to disable
[12:54] <persia> Well, I'd claim that the maximise directive not causing it to be the desired size, causing some overlap, which causes the jumpiness is the issue, but I'm not disagreeing with you, only being a bit more precise.
[12:54] <ogra> well, the window simply shouldnt jump :)
[12:55] <persia> Agreed.  Shouldn't be oversize either.
[12:55] <ogra> well, if it is you should have the opportunity to move t yourself
[12:55] <persia> maximise means "make it the size of the desktop space", not "make it a litle more than that".
[12:55] <ogra> but compiz should try to do that for you
[12:55]  * ian_brasil thinks it is like the whack a rat game at a fair trying to change xchat settings
[12:56] <ogra> heh
[12:56] <ogra> yeah, xchat is specifically evil
[12:56] <persia> ian_brasil, The trick is to pick the background first and quickly, before it freezes, and only try to do this on a multicore machine :)
[12:57] <ogra> the quick fix is to switch off desktop effects and re-enable them after adjusting ;)
[12:57]  * persia isn't sure about that reenablement bit, but that ought work.
[12:57] <persia> Note also that one can hang the system even with desktop effects off from the xchat settings dialog.
[12:57] <ogra> well, indeed if you want frames around popup windows you should re-renable them :)
[12:58] <persia> Hrm?  metacity offers that.
[12:58] <bizkut> os[Linux <IP_ADDRESS>-aao-icc i686] distro[Ubuntu "intrepid" 8.10] cpu[2 x Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270   @ 1.60GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.60GHz] mem[Physical: 1.0GB/1.5GB free] disk[Total: 19.2GB/27.9GB free] video[Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller] sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel]
[12:59] <ogra> persia, devilspie undecorates *all* windows ... if you have popups they have no frame ... compiz makes them drop a shadow so you can distinguish them from the window below
[12:59] <ogra> though if you use metacity i would recommend using maximus instead of devilspie
[13:00] <ogra> the prob is that maximus doesnt work with compiz at all
[13:00] <persia> Ah.  That makes sense.  I'm stuck with metacity (see note above about no drivers), but not excited enough to fiddle with things.
[13:00] <ogra> devilspie works with both, but would need less generic setiings
[13:37] <BUGabundo_work1> ogra when I run alt+F2 I can see a frame, and then it disapears!
[13:38] <ogra> yes, thats how its supposed to be
[13:38] <BUGabundo_work1> so this is devilspie at work?
[13:38] <ogra> yep
[13:39] <BUGabundo_work1> another question:
[13:40] <BUGabundo_work1> can I use SuperL to access the Go Home??
[15:27] <ido_> hey
[15:27] <ido_> anyone around ?
[15:27] <persia> ido-, lots of people
[15:27] <ido_> oh. great.
[15:28] <ido_> was wondering how to make double-click more responsive
[15:28] <BUGabundo> hi
[15:28] <BUGabundo> I'm back
[15:29] <BUGabundo> ogra can you help me make a fdi for the eeepc shorcut buttons?
[15:29] <ido_> seems that the driver/X is sensitive and detects double clicks only if the exact pixel or so is pressed, which doesnt work well when "double clicking" with a finger, or even the styus
[15:36] <persia> ido-, I think there's a way to increase the target area for double-click sensitivity in the fdi file.
[15:36] <persia> ogra, Do you know?
[15:38] <ido_> how do I reload the fdi's on the fly ?
[15:38] <ido_> without restarting
[15:38] <ido_> hal restart doesnt seem to do it..
[15:38] <persia> I think you need to restart X, although I may be mistaken.
[15:40] <ido_>  hrm. I added key remapping.. should that require restarting X as well ?
[15:40] <ido_> I'm restaring X to find out..
[16:36] <ido_> back.
[16:37] <ido_> persia, here ?
[16:43] <persia> Did it work?
[16:46] <ido_> i restarted and it worked
[16:46] <ido_> i had a different question though.
[16:46] <ido_> well, I feel that ubuntu is much slower then my XP..
[16:46] <ido_> I haven't installed any services
[16:46] <ido_> and mostly its idling.
[16:47] <persia> Well, there's lots of services installed by default.
[16:47] <persia> Which operation seems slow?
[16:47] <ido_> however when running firefox and surfing
[16:47] <ido_> other stuff as well actually.. but most noticible is firefox
[16:48] <persia> Is that page load speed, or something else?
[16:48] <ido_> i have tons of extensions on my windows profile, and it works at an ok speed (its also my desktop profile)
[16:48] <ido_> however on the default settings (no extra extensions whatsoever) on ubuntu, it just runs slow..
[16:49] <persia> Right.  Is it that page loading is slow, or is it that navigation within a page is slow?
[16:49] <ido_> I think both
[16:49] <BUGabundo_work1> persia: any tips to make the eeepc with umpc boot fasterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ?
[16:49] <persia> OK.  For page loading speed, I might suspect mdns (you could tweak /etc/nsswitch.conf to test this).  Not sure about page navigation.
[16:50] <ido_> scrolling speed is slow as well.
[16:50] <persia> BUGabundo, Run bootchart, and tweak the stuff that runs slow.  Profile your boot.  Adjust your readahead cache.  Compile your own custom kernel.  That ought improve most of it.
[16:50] <persia> ido-, Which video drivers?
[16:51] <BUGabundo_work1> seb123 BANed from running profile on the boot
[16:51] <BUGabundo_work1> he says it's a REALLY bad idea for users to do that!
[16:51] <ido_> hrm. sec
[16:51] <ido_> intel ?
[16:52] <persia> BUGabundo, Well, it depends.  It can certainly break some things.  It makes other things faster.  It is one of the tools you can use to boot faster, but it may have undesireable side effects.
[16:52] <persia> ido-, Try turning off the desktop effects.  Doesn't work for all intel graphics chips : depends on which (and I don't remember which are which).
[16:53] <ido_> actually desktop effects are pretty snappy hee
[16:53] <ido_> i'm on a Q1u btw.
[16:53] <ido_> s/hee/here
[16:54] <persia> Sure.  Desktop effects are snappy, but it's that XP doesn't do GPU effects, so if you're comparing the speed to XP, you might find that scroll speed is affected by using them.
[16:54] <persia> On the other hand, Desktop effects are pretty :)
[16:55] <ido_> yes they are.
[16:55] <ido_> how do i disable them ?
[16:55] <ido_> i mean, disable them through gnome ?
[16:55] <persia> I think it's in System...Preferences...Appearance
[16:55] <ido_> or is it done in the X config ?
[16:56] <ido_> ugh.
[16:56] <ido_> no neat effects and as slow as before
[16:57] <persia> OK.  Turn them back on :)
[16:57] <persia> You apparently have one of the cards where 2D acceleration doesn't degrade while rendering 3D effects.
[16:58] <ido_> brr. it reset my compiz settings.
[16:58] <ido_> bummer
[16:59] <ido_> btw, how do you handle large unresizable windows ?\
[16:59] <ido_> such as the compiz settings one
[17:00] <persia> File bugs asking for them to be redesigned :)  Submitting redesigns improves the chances of adoption, although often they need to go upstream.
[17:00] <BUGabundo_work1> yeah ido-. I hate when compiz looses my settings!
[17:01] <BUGabundo_work1> I keep a conf file that I export when I change something, and import back when compiz losses it
[17:01] <ido_> actually redesign doesnt always fix things persia
[17:02] <ido_> you can't ask to redesign every program in the ubuntu repositories afterall
[17:02] <persia> ido-, Hrm?  When the UI doesn't fit, and it cannot be resized, how but redesign can it be fixed?
[17:02] <ido_> redesign how large windows are handled..
[17:02] <persia> Well, GNOME theoretically supports 800x600, so anything that doesn't fit at 800x600 is a bug.  There's not so much of that, really.
[17:02] <persia> What do you suggest?
[17:02] <ido_> for exmaple, i made them movable, and I scroll them on my window
[17:03] <ido_> s/window/screen
[17:03] <ido_> not the best thing, but at least makes them somewhat usable
[17:03] <ido_> (for example you can't even exit/press back on the compiz settings window since its too large)
[17:16] <persia> ido-, By disabling "can't resize/scroll" at a window-manager layer, or by adjusting the application?
[22:07] <mirak> hello
[22:08] <mirak> can I use it as a media center desktop ?


[04:24] <serts> where do i report bugs
[04:41] <genii> Usually to Launchpad, filed against the package the bug occurs in
[09:44] <live-boot> I want to install Lubuntu on hard drive so it boots into live mode (like booting from the live cd). Is this possible?
[09:46] <live-boot> I want the hard drive to boot the live image instead of cd.  The reason is, so I can swap the hard drive into another computer and have it boot lubuntu live.
[09:48] <live-boot> Is it possible to extract vmlinuz and initrd.gz and other system files from the live cd so I can install them onto hard drive and boot into a live distro with grub?
[09:51] <live-boot> I just realized I can boot the live cd then use "usb-creator-gtk" to install the live cd onto hard drive.  Then swap the hard drive to my other PC and boot lubuntu live from hard drive.
[09:55] <live-boot_> <back. My laptop battery went flat
[09:57] <live-boot_> egad I got it!
[09:58] <live-boot_> Here's what I'll do:
[09:58] <live-boot_> I'll install Lubuntu live image to "ide to sd card reader" then transfer it to my other pc to boot.
[09:58] <live-boot_> Then I'll install lubuntu to the hard drive via a USB to IDE adapter..
[10:00] <live-boot_> There's many way sto skin a cat, as they say :- )
[10:13] <leszek> hi
[11:00] <live-boot> <is back.. I managed to boot the Lubuntu live image from SD to IDE adapter for my toshiba portege m200 which doen't have a cd/dvd and doesn't boot from usb.   SD option works fine
[11:01] <live-boot> Then I'm installing the full system to 2.5" hard drive via a USB to IDE connector...hope it works...
[11:02] <live-boot> I'm going to use grub legacy on a 24mb boot partition to chainload the Lubuntu partition
[11:04] <live-boot> Next:  I hope Lubuntu 10.04 supports touch screen functionality on the portege m200.
[11:07] <live-boot> Lubuntu ran fantastically on a Fujitsu lifebook t series tablet (touchscreen) so I hope it works as good on the toshiba m200
[11:33] <live-boot> It worked!!  Lubuntu is booting.  (See what I did above.)
[12:04] <alentu> Hi
[12:04] <alentu> Is there anyone?
[12:07] <phillw> !ask ! alentu
[12:08] <phillw> !ask | alentu
[12:11] <alentu> Oh, I've been reading the forums ande the cocumentation and I still have a problem with the sound in my frontal jack conection. I'm prety new in this.
[12:14] <alentu> i've tried to follow the alsamixer and the bios advices but i don't even have all the configuration issues that are told in them.
[12:53] <alentu> hey, my last question haven't been writen in the log
[12:55] <Myrtti> hm?
[12:55] <Myrtti> the public logs are updated hourly, not live
[13:17] <alentu> thanks, has anyone read my question about frontal sound jack port
[14:48] <alentu> Has anyone installed the realtek drivers? I want to solve my front sound jack issues.
[15:10] <alentu> well if that is imposible, maybe there's an alternative configuration: I have (and conected and working) a pair of loudspeakers that have a jack to connect my headphones, but there is a lot of mass noise, and I don't know if its configurable.
[18:50] <methodize> Hello, i need help adding reslution to xrandr.  my  screens native resolution doesn't show up on the list of available resolutions
[18:51] <Unit193> Hvae a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
[18:55] <methodize> I'll give it  a shot, i've been trying out xrandr to no avail to far. i've even tried editing the 'autostart'' file.
[18:57] <Myrtti> I sure am not an expert on these issues, but I think it might be that you've got some driver issues, if you know the screen should be able to do better
[18:57] <Myrtti> xrandr only gives the resolutions it detects the display is capable of
[18:58] <genii> Often it can't pull down the EDID info it needs to really know what resolutions
[18:58] <Myrtti> someone will now promptly thwap me on the head with a rolled up newspaper
[18:58] <Myrtti> see!
[18:58]  * Myrtti goes away
[18:58] <methodize> lol
[18:58] <methodize> yeah i think it's that issue...
[18:59] <methodize> how do i figure out what video driver i have installed?
[18:59] <methodize> i think i might have something like vesa as a driver for an ati radeon HD card
[19:00] <genii> methodize: sudo lshw -C video   ...then look at the line which starts "configuration:"  ..it has the driver name
[19:01] <methodize> this is all that is on that line...
[19:01] <methodize> "configuration: latency=64 mingnt=8"
[19:03] <genii> Hm. Here it shows me I'm using the nvidia on my setup. Alternately, you can just list all loaded modules with: lsmod      ...and then look at them all and see which is the video one
[19:05] <genii> methodize: At any rate, Section 5 of the guide Unit193 provided whows how to manually add your proper resolution
[19:05] <genii> *shows
[19:09] <Myrtti> on my set it shows display twice
[19:09] <Myrtti> and so there's configuration parts two
[19:09] <Myrtti> physical id: 2 and physical id: 2.1
[19:13] <genii> Sometimes it needs -C display  instead of -C video, depending on how the hardware is identifying itself when queried
[19:20] <methodize> Ok, i'll try manually adding again. It's physical id: 0. just one. C display had same results
[19:22] <Unit193> Also, for me generating an xorg.conf file has helped.
[19:23] <Unit193> On another computer I know it can do higher, so I have a script that calls xrandr to add the mode and switch to it running on login.
[20:45] <melodie_> i
[20:45] <melodie_> hi
[20:51] <melodie_> anyone has a Lubuntu 12.04 under his/her hand?
[21:20] <melodie_> hi again
[21:20] <melodie_> anyone around?
[21:21] <melodie_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/834592/comments/15
[21:45] <melodie_> hi phillw, did you just arrive?
[23:05] <melodie_> which file indicates in which Category a menu will be?
[23:06] <melodie_> ie:
[23:07] <melodie_> synaptic.desktop in /usr/share/applications has "Category=PackageManager;GTK;System;Settings;"
[23:07] <melodie_> but there must be also another file which describes which category goes in which main menu of the panel menu?
[23:08] <melodie_> I used to find some of them into /usr/share/application-registry but I don't find them there anymore?
[23:55] <Hundred> so when is the next release coming out
[23:58] <Unit193> !saucy


[02:03] <emma> JanC: no worries :) It was a bouncing connection. I don't mind waiting.
[06:28] <Herakles> I rebooted manually, and now the Display is completly restored..., thank you dr_willis...
[08:34] <AlanBell> emma: it was indeed bouncing
[08:35] <AlanBell> are you fixed now?
[08:38] <AlanBell> never mind, I see you say you are
[08:38] <AlanBell> emma: try joining now please
[08:43] <emma> AlanBell: oh thanks :)
[18:29] <EgyParadox> Hello, I need to know if the same language is spoken by different countries, which LoCo team has the priority in terms of IRC support?
[18:31] <Myrtti> why?
[18:31] <Pici> 'priority'?
[18:31] <Myrtti> or what is the case in question?
[18:31] <EgyParadox> what I mean
[18:32] <EgyParadox> which team would be responsible
[18:32] <EgyParadox> i take that back
[18:34] <EgyParadox> if somebody needs support in arabic where is he redirected?
[18:34] <Myrtti> !arabic
[18:35] <EgyParadox> i see
[18:35] <EgyParadox> My point was maybe some teams are inactive on IRC
[18:36] <EgyParadox> !ar
[18:37] <EgyParadox> !sp
[18:37] <EgyParadox> thats what I meant
[18:38] <Pici> EgyParadox: You want to know why !sp is missing?
[18:39] <EgyParadox> Because I want to check whether there are multiple channels for spanish support since it is spoken in several countries
[18:39] <Pici> !es
[18:39] <Pici> There are language channels and there are loco channels, but there is some overlap.
[18:39] <EgyParadox> I see
[18:40] <Pici> I can't recall an issue where a loco team came to us and said that they couldn't do what they wanted because general language support was happening in their channel.
[18:42] <EgyParadox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/275971
[19:03] <EgyParadox> Pici:Thank you
[19:08] <EgyParadox> and what is sp?
[19:13] <Pici> EgyParadox: nothing. Its not a country/language code.
[19:35] <topyli> aww, we have a boring -offtopic channel, while the argentinians have a groovy -cafe
[19:36] <topyli> i demand renaming -offtopic to #ubuntu-disco
[19:36] <genii-around> I'd vote for -cafe before ever considering -disco
[19:37] <topyli> you would :)
[19:37] <topyli> disco before death!
[19:37] <genii-around> "Disco is Dead" ;)
[19:38] <topyli> no it isn't, it just smells funky
[19:38] <topyli> padam-tshh!
[19:52] <Myrtti> lol
[20:53] <genii-around> topyli: If it ever *is* decided to have an #ubuntu-cafe , please let me know. I'll sign up to be the resident coffee-slinger there
[20:54] <topyli> you shall have channel ownership
[20:54] <genii-around> :)
[21:15] <m4v> what's the rationale of having the factoid !ar? the other spanish LoCos don't seem to have a factoid for them, and I think it mostly confuses people that wanted to call !arabic.
[21:16] <genii-around> !br
[21:17] <m4v> well, that's not a spanish LoCo, spanish LoCos are ve, uy, co, cl, pe, mx..
[21:17] <genii-around> I think some of those may have factoids
[21:17] <genii-around> !mx
[21:18] <genii-around> Hm
[21:18] <m4v> they don't I checked.
[21:33] <Trevinho> Hi. I've just got the ubuntu membership... I'd like to get the irc cloak too. My LP profile is at https://launchpad.net/~3v1n0
[21:35] <m4v> IRCC, ping ^
[21:38] <m4v> Trevinho: please hang on until an IRC Council member shows up.
[21:39] <Trevinho> Ok, no problem.
[21:39] <Trevinho> thank you m4v


[00:40]  * thomi is back
[00:46] <RAOF> thomi: Oook.
[01:21] <duflu> RAOF: No luck with libdrm_radeon/mesa?
[01:22] <duflu> Hmm, tho it hasn't tried to build since the 24th
[01:33] <RAOF> duflu: Do you want to hit the rebuild button? Should work now.
[01:35] <duflu> RAOF: I hit /a? rebuild button. Not sure if it was the right one. Thanks
[01:35] <duflu> "a"
[01:55]  * duflu thinks it's awesome that he can click 3 build buttons and all 3 builds start immediately
[01:56] <duflu> kdub: Jenkins marked this done. Is it really? https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1130553
[02:11] <thomi> does anyone remember the secret key you need to push to stop grub booting?
[02:11] <RAOF> thomi: Madly mash shift.
[02:12]  * thomi is still trying to un-brick his laptop :(
[02:12] <RAOF> thomi: Although we *should* be marking your boot as failed, and automatically bringing up the grub prompt.
[02:12] <duflu> Mashing escape works too
[02:12] <thomi> doesnt seem to be shift....
[02:12] <thomi> and technically speaking, the boot works
[02:12] <thomi> time to try Escape
[02:13] <duflu> But you have to be fast with escape. Start mashing at the end of POST
[02:13] <RAOF> thomi: I believe that we decided that “has logged in to a session, or does a controlled shutdown” are the two criteria for determining whether a boot is successful.
[02:14] <thomi> oh, well that's not workng
[02:14] <thomi> RAOF: seems you need to hold the shift key, not just press it 0.O
[02:22] <thomi> robert_ancell: what should I do to disable u-s-c in lightdm.conf?
[02:22] <robert_ancell> thomi, uninstall u-s-c or edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.config and quote out type=unity
[02:23] <robert_ancell> thomi, also check you don't have an old setting in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf - if so just remove it
[02:24]  * thomi crosses fingers and reboots
[02:25]  * kgunn waits with anticipation
[02:35] <thomi> well, I got my laptop back
[02:35] <thomi> but xmir totally breaks it for me
[02:35] <kgunn> laptop \o/
[02:35] <thomi> also, I realise that the mir stress tests break the server again. every time we get closer to enabling them for CI, something else breaks :-/
[02:39]  * duflu thought lightdm was meant to "fall back to xlocal" if things don't work
[02:39] <kgunn> olli: i notice you say reboot your system vs restart lightdm....did you experience issues w lightdm restart ?
[02:40] <robert_ancell> duflu, it did work, then it locked up and lightdm tried to get to failsafe X, but it was locked up by that point
[02:41] <kgunn> robert_ancell: ^ restart lightdm vs reboot ?
[02:41] <robert_ancell> kgunn, same difference
[02:41] <kgunn> robert_ancell: i thot so...just noticed olli referenced it today on irc & in his blog
[02:42] <RAOF> Hey, what's our idiom on server-side event-callbacks?
[02:42] <duflu> RAOF: Server side doesn't get callbacks ... ??
[02:43] <RAOF> duflu: I mean: an event occurs, and some server code needs to react to it. Do we not currently have any of that?
[02:44] <duflu> RAOF: It will be buried in the server classes (because they do have support for turning events into messages already). But I think what you mean by "server side callback" will be a virtual method to be overridden
[02:44]  * duflu is not helpful yet; goes to get coffee
[02:46] <robert_ancell> argh, C++! I copy the demo shell input handling code into u-s-c and it gives me obscure error messages
[02:48] <duflu> ??
[02:49] <RAOF> Looks like other parts of our code use a set_foo_callback() idiom.
[02:56] <kgunn> i just updated to the latest....and verified https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1194039
[02:57] <thomi> mir_stress causes the mir_demo_server to crash: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1195089
[03:38] <duflu> Reboot. Wish me luck
[04:06] <duflu> RAOF: Ta. Mir is functional on raring again
[04:06] <duflu> via staging
[05:13] <didrocks> hey robert_ancell! around?
[05:14] <tvoss_> good morning all :)
[05:15] <didrocks> hey tvoss_
[05:18] <robert_ancell> didrocks, yep
[05:19] <didrocks> robert_ancell: was my email I sent yesterday understandable?
[05:20] <robert_ancell> didrocks, the big ol list of things to be done?
[05:20] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yep, and particularly the pending questions :)
[05:21] <thomi> morning tvoss_
[05:21] <thomi> morning didrocks
[05:21] <didrocks> hey thomi!
[05:21] <didrocks> thomi: moving house?
[05:22] <thomi> didrocks: yeah... have moved. Well, most things are still in boxes
[05:22] <didrocks> I imagine :)
[05:22] <didrocks> so you are working from a coffee shop or anything?
[05:23] <thomi> didrocks: no, working from home, I managed to un-pack my office. But I cannot find anything, so I end up buying new things, then find the box that I was looking for in the first place
[05:23] <thomi> like, I have no cups....
[05:23] <thomi> I'm sure they'll turn up somewhere
[05:24] <robert_ancell> didrocks, can you send me details on how you do integration tests with the unity stack
[05:24] <didrocks> thomi: argh, but no cups was a priority :-) Anyway, you never have enough of them :)
[05:24] <thomi> yeah
[05:24] <didrocks> robert_ancell: doing that now
[05:25] <didrocks> robert_ancell: on lightdm and ABI, any idea? (meanwhile I'm writing you that)
[05:25] <robert_ancell> ABI for?
[05:25] <didrocks> robert_ancell: see, RAOF told that the client ABI is stable, so platform-api and xmir will use that stable ABI, right?
[05:25] <didrocks> we don't need to worry too much about ABI stability, right?
[05:25] <robert_ancell> didrocks, yes
[05:26] <didrocks> so we can put everything in the same stack finally, I guess
[05:26] <robert_ancell> didrocks, though we want the integration tests to pick up if we stuff that up :)
[05:26] <didrocks> robert_ancell: sure ;)
[05:26] <didrocks> platform-api will dep on mir at some near point in the future, right?
[05:27] <robert_ancell> didrocks, as I understand it, it will depend on libmirclient
[05:27] <robert_ancell> racarr, correct?
[05:27] <didrocks> yeah, so, the stacks will be dependant as a whole :)
[05:27] <robert_ancell> though he's probably asleep :)
[05:27] <didrocks> robert_ancell: for lightdm/unity-greeter, in that case, do you want them in the mir stack or in another stack?
[05:27] <didrocks> I guess so :)
[05:28] <tvoss_> RAOF, good morning :)
[05:28] <robert_ancell> didrocks, I don't have a strong preference on the stacks. From my perspective you could lump them all into one stack and I'd be happy with that. As long as we don't slow down important bug fixes for one component
[05:28] <RAOF> tvoss_: Good morning.
[05:28] <robert_ancell> I have to go, but I'll be back in 2.5-3 hours
[05:28] <didrocks> robert_ancell: it doesn't slow down anything as long as any of them FTBFS or fail tests :)
[05:29] <didrocks> robert_ancell: ok, I'll send you about the integration tests then
[05:29] <robert_ancell> ta
[06:13] <tvoss> robert_ancell, duflu what are the remaining open vt bugs?
[06:14] <duflu> tvoss: Might be inaccurate, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bugs?field.tag=vt
[06:15] <duflu> I think the medium one is actually the most annoying right now
[06:17] <tvoss> duflu, hmmm, I think that's the one making it difficult to fallback easily
[06:18] <duflu> tvoss: Well not having a terminal to log in to is a risk too
[06:18] <tvoss> duflu, that's what I mean
[06:19] <duflu> Right. So "expert fallback" = terminal. As opposed to fallback mode, which is X (when it works?)
[06:19] <tvoss> duflu, right
[06:19] <tvoss> duflu, that's what I mean
[06:28] <duflu> alf: Good morning. Bad news... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1195105
[06:29] <alf> duflu: Yeah, I saw that late yesterday, but thankfully it's a simple fix
[06:29] <duflu> alf: Cool. You saw it before the bug was logged?
[06:34] <alf> duflu: assigned it to myself
[06:35] <alf> duflu: (disconnected, may have lost some messages)
[06:35] <duflu> alf: No nothing missed. Thanks. What's the cause?
[06:37] <alf> duflu: Surface::flag_for_render() internals changed, so now one call to it is not enough to mark the surface as valid for rendering.
[06:38] <alf> duflu: if you need a temporary workaround just call it twice in render_surfaces
[06:39] <duflu> Oh. Server internals...
[06:59] <tvoss> RAOF, https://github.com/whot/libevdev
[07:00] <RAOF> Yah.
[07:00] <RAOF> Also in my G+ stream :)
[07:00]  * RAOF still needs to check about the libsynaptics situation.
[07:00] <RAOF> I don't think we're _particularly_ interested in libevdev, right? The Android stack already handles that.
[07:00] <RAOF> But we *are* interested in having touchpad support ☺
[07:05] <RAOF> Man, I wish C++ had a builtin string class.
[07:06] <RAOF> Strike that; I wish it had a builtin string *type*.
[07:06] <duflu> RAOF: You're asking for the C++ spec to grow further? :)
[07:07] <RAOF> Actually I'm basically asking for typeof("foo") == std::string.
[07:07] <RAOF> :)
[07:11] <duflu> RAOF: You can go: char foo[] = "foo"; int len = sizeof(foo) - 1;  :)
[07:12] <duflu> What more can you want from a string? ;)
[07:12] <mlankhorst> utf-8
[07:12] <duflu> mlankhorst: Yeah fair point
[07:13] <duflu> Though unicode is easier to deal with most of the time... wchat_t foo[] = L"foo";
[07:14] <duflu> *wchar_t
[07:14] <RAOF> wcat_t whiskers[]!
[07:15] <duflu> int longcat = (sizeof(whiskers) / sizeof(whiskers[0])) - 1
[07:17] <RAOF> Peppa pig!
[07:18] <didrocks> robert_ancell: once you are back: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/lightdm/packaging-cleanup/+merge/171722
[07:22] <duflu> Ah, wchar_t can still be multibyte. But C++11 also has char32_t to rule them all
[07:23] <duflu> (except longcat who cannot be ruled)
[07:35] <tvoss> robert_ancell, hey there :) searching for the command line that invokes usc from lightdm
[07:35] <RAOF> src/seat-unity.c is what you want to be looking in.
[07:39] <tvoss> RAOF, that's lightdm, right?
[07:39] <RAOF> Right.
[07:40] <seb128> RAOF, hey
[07:40] <RAOF> seb128: Ho!
[07:40] <seb128> RAOF, how are you?
[07:41] <RAOF> I'm well. Hows about you?
[07:41] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[07:41] <seb128> RAOF, quick question for your ... did you guy test the new xorg which is getting ready for upload in saucy? does it has an possible impact on XMir or on work you are doing?
[07:41] <seb128> it seems like that stack is mostly ready for landing in saucy
[07:42] <seb128> but I want to make sure it's not going to create issues for you guys first
[07:43] <RAOF> It shouldn't, although I should check whether the input ABI changed.
[07:44] <seb128> RAOF, can you check tomorrow and give us a ack/nack?
[07:44] <mlankhorst> RAOF: just some repacking
[07:44] <RAOF> mlankhorst: Urgh, again?
[07:44] <mlankhorst> yeah someone loves their bitfields
[07:45] <RAOF> Ok. So I'll need to throw xf86-input-* into the Mir PPA until that's moved to 1.14.
[07:45] <mlankhorst> but a rebuild is enough for that
[07:45] <RAOF> Right
[07:46] <RAOF> Or, I guess, move xserver in the Mir PPA to 1.14; that should be fast.
[07:46] <mlankhorst> indeed :p
[07:46] <mlankhorst> and then just bump the video drivers to rebuild them
[07:47] <RAOF> Exactly.
[07:47] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I guess xf86-input-* built against 1.14 are in a PPA somewhere, right?
[07:48]  * duflu wonders how the Apple Magic Trackpad would go with Mir
[07:49] <mlankhorst> RAOF: canonical-x/x-staging is whats going to land
[07:50] <RAOF> duflu: Reasonably, but no tap-to-click etc.
[07:50] <RAOF> mlankhorst: Ta.
[07:50] <duflu> RAOF: I mean Mir android input, not X
[07:50] <RAOF> duflu: So did I.
[07:51] <duflu> Oh
[07:51] <duflu> I recall trying it on a Honeycomb tablet a while ago. Kind of worked...
[07:51] <RAOF> seb128: I'll move our PPA on to 1.14 tomorrow and give you the goahead.
[07:51] <seb128> RAOF, thanks
[08:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I put a work item for the 1.14 update in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-system-compositor
[08:17] <tvoss> robert_ancell, hey, looking at src/seat-unity.c. I would like to add options to enable reporting of the different mir components
[08:17] <tvoss> robert_ancell, question is: how do I access the settings as read from the per-seat config file?
[08:18] <robert_ancell> tvoss, not 100% sure what you mean, but you just need to call seat_get_*_property to get a property of a seat as set in the config
[08:20] <tvoss> robert_ancell, ah cool, so the usc executable has command line options to enable logging of internal operations, either to a log file or to lttng
[08:20] <tvoss> robert_ancell, for debugging purposes, it would be great if we could enable that functionality via the unity-seat config file, passing over the cl options to usc
[08:20] <robert_ancell> tvoss, I added "unity-compositor-command" which you can set to "unity-system-compositor --do-blah-blah-blah" to do stuff like that temporarily
[08:21] <tvoss> robert_ancell, ah cool, even better then :)
[08:21] <robert_ancell> tvoss, Ideally we should just set u-s-c to log stuff to stderr by default so we have baseline debugging
[08:22] <tvoss> robert_ancell, and stderr ends up in the usc.log, right?
[08:22] <robert_ancell> tvoss, ack
[08:28] <tvoss> robert_ancell, so something like unity-compositor-command="unity-system-compositor --glog --glog-stderrthreshold=0 --display_report_opt=log"
[08:28] <tvoss> in 10-unity-... .conf should work ...
[08:31] <robert_ancell> tvoss, yes
[08:31] <tvoss> robert_ancell, cool, trying now :)
[08:42] <didrocks> robert_ancell: so, I guess before daily releasing mir and unity-greeter to a PPA (so not blocking on integration tests nor the duplicated libraries in Mir), I just need your lightdm review, did I miss anything?
[08:43] <didrocks> robert_ancell: then, we can continue discussing with jibel if needed to clear up how to do the integration tests
[08:44] <robert_ancell> alf, I think the link is too flaky :(
[08:45] <robert_ancell> didrocks, otp, I'll get back to you.. which is the review? I thought I just did them all
[08:46] <didrocks> robert_ancell: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/lightdm/packaging-cleanup/+merge/171722
[08:46] <didrocks> robert_ancell: fresh new one! :)
[08:51] <tvoss> RAOF, ping
[08:53] <RAOF> tvoss: pongity pong.
[09:02] <tvoss> robert_ancell, adding the command line makes the server not start, executable not found
[09:03] <robert_ancell> tvoss, can you paste me your config?
[09:04] <robert_ancell> tvoss, there is a nice regression test that tests this case, so it *should* work...
[09:04] <robert_ancell> didrocks, approved
[09:05] <didrocks> robert_ancell: thanks! I'm prepping the daily release machinery through the next ppa then!
[09:05] <robert_ancell> didrocks, I take it the man page change was intentional?
[09:05] <robert_ancell> You probably know groff better than me :)
[09:05] <didrocks> robert_ancell: yeah, it was an empty stenza (I saw it through lintian TBH :p)
[09:05] <tvoss> robert_ancell, unity-compositor-command="unity-system-compositor --glog --glog-stderrthreshold=0 --display_report_opt=log"
[09:06] <robert_ancell> hah! Your secret is out!
[09:06] <tvoss> I tried without ", too
[09:06] <didrocks> it is :)
[09:06] <robert_ancell> tvoss, no quotes
[09:06] <tvoss> robert_ancell, tried that, without luck :/
[09:06] <robert_ancell> tvoss, can I see the lightdm.log?
[09:07] <didrocks> robert_ancell: tell jibel and I when you want to discuss integration testing, we can do that at a time not too late for you :)
[09:07] <robert_ancell> didrocks, will do
[09:07] <tvoss> robert_ancell, don't have it handy, but it said that it tries to invoke the command line and then command not found
[09:08] <robert_ancell> didrocks, I still can't see where the tests are for unity - can you point me at what files actually do the tests?
[09:09] <didrocks> robert_ancell: lp:unity tests/autopilot/unity/*
[09:09] <robert_ancell> didrocks, ta
[09:09] <didrocks> yw :)
[09:10] <robert_ancell> tvoss, hmf. I'll try here
[09:11] <tvoss> that was fast
[09:18] <robert_ancell> tvoss, works for me - config http://paste.ubuntu.com/5804162/, lightdm log http://paste.ubuntu.com/5804163/
[09:20] <tvoss> robert_ancell, cool, sorry for the noise then :) mind pasting the usc.log, too?
[09:20] <robert_ancell> tvoss, there's nothing new in it, but I didn't set --display_report_opt=log - does it need that?
[09:21] <tvoss> robert_ancell, yup, that allows us to log anything going on with vt's inside the gbm module
[09:21] <tvoss> iirc
[09:21] <robert_ancell> tvoss, brb
[09:31] <tvoss> robert_ancell, win?
[09:32] <robert_ancell> tvoss, you gave me an invalid command line :)
[09:32] <robert_ancell> unity-compositor-command=unity-system-compositor --glog --glog-stderrthreshold=0 --display-report=log
[09:32] <robert_ancell> works
[09:32] <tvoss> ups :)
[09:32] <robert_ancell> log output - http://paste.ubuntu.com/5804187/
[09:32] <robert_ancell> then my VTs went crazy so I was sshing from my phone - real pain to try and type on those keyboards :)
[09:32] <tvoss> yeah
[09:33] <robert_ancell> tvoss, that what you expected to see?
[09:35] <tvoss> looks good, trying to tune the output to get information back to us in case of issues
[09:40] <tvoss> robert_ancell,
[09:40] <tvoss> robert_ancell, ^
[09:41] <robert_ancell> yep, we should have this stuff on by default
[09:43] <tvoss> robert_ancell, do you think we should enable it in the ppa by default?
[09:44] <robert_ancell> tvoss, yes, change the defaults in u-s-c to log things that wont affect performance by default
[09:44] <tvoss> robert_ancell, yup, I think we want display reporting enabled, including info. We can lower that over time
[09:46] <robert_ancell> yep
[09:47] <robert_ancell> tvoss, bug 1195227
[09:48] <tvoss> robert_ancell, thx
[09:59] <didrocks>  ah, mir trunk FTBFS on the ppa
[09:59] <didrocks> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/143539491/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.mir_0.0.6%2B13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:00] <didrocks> hum, hard to read with -j8
[10:01] <didrocks> (can be the parallel build making it failing as well)
[10:01] <tvoss> didrocks, yup
[10:01] <didrocks> tvoss: did you see anything else than parallel build which can be the cause here? I don't see any hint in the trace :/
[10:02] <seb128> didrocks, the error seems to be "cp: cannot create regular file '/build/buildd/mir-0.0.6+13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next/obj-i686-linux-gnu/doc/html/cppguide/styleguide.css': No such file or directory"
[10:02] <didrocks> seb128: waow, you have good eyes, couldn't see that one :p
[10:02] <tvoss> seb128, o/
[10:02] <seb128> ;-)
[10:02] <seb128> tvoss, hey ;-)
[10:03] <seb128> /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_progress_report /build/buildd/mir-0.0.6+13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next/obj-i686-linux-gnu/CMakeFiles
[10:03] <seb128> Generating ../doc/html/cppguide/styleguide.css
[10:03] <seb128> cp /build/buildd/mir-0.0.6+13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next/guides/styleguide.css
[10:03] <seb128>
[10:03] <seb128> seems to have a path mismatch there
[10:04] <didrocks> indeed
[10:04]  * seb128 let you guys debug the build system ;-)
[10:08] <didrocks> passing on other archs, I think it's a --parallel mismatch, I'll disable it for now unless some cmake gurus wants to ensure that it works, tvoss, do you know if Satoris would be interested?
[10:10] <tvoss> didrocks, might be :)
[10:12] <katie> tvoss, mpt do we have anything to discuss today?
[10:13] <katie> tvoss, everything on my list was covered yesterday
[10:17] <didrocks> tvoss: seb128: it passed with this rebuild FYI
[10:17] <seb128> didrocks, ok, so some sort of race in the build system
[10:17] <didrocks> yep, let's see once Satoris is around
[10:41] <tvoss> katie, likewise :)
[10:48]  * duflu -> dinner
[10:50] <tvoss> katie, ping
[11:01] <tvoss> hah!
[11:02] <katie> tvoss, pong
[11:12] <didrocks> tvoss: ah, more annoying tests failed on powerpc: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/143542002/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-powerpc.mir_0.0.6%2B13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:12] <didrocks> tvoss: do you mind having a look?
[11:16] <tvoss> didrocks, C++ exception with description "GLPixelBuffer doesn't support big endian architectures" thrown in the test body.
[11:16] <didrocks> tvoss: so this test should be disable on powerpc I guess
[11:17] <didrocks> or we can declare no Mir on powerpc, but that will make the inclusion by default difficult…
[11:18] <tvoss> didrocks, can you file a bug please?
[11:19] <didrocks> tvoss: sure
[11:21] <didrocks> tvoss: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1195260
[11:30] <didrocks> tvoss: other tests failure on armhf: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/143544949/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-armhf.mir_0.0.6%2B13.10.20130627ubuntu.unity.next-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:30]  * didrocks opens a bug
[11:31] <didrocks> it seems no valgrind?
[11:32] <tvoss> didrocks, why is this passing in the ppa?
[11:32] <didrocks> tvoss: passing?
[11:33] <tvoss> didrocks, building
[11:33] <didrocks> tvoss: daily release?
[11:33] <didrocks> as it's our goal
[11:34] <didrocks> and as we don't have integration tests for everything yet, we are using the next ppa first
[11:34] <didrocks> (and rightly as we need to settle down those issues first)
[11:34] <didrocks> tvoss: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1195265 FYI
[11:43] <tvoss> didrocks, quick check: isn't valgrind in the build-deps?
[11:44] <didrocks> tvoss: no, I just added it and dput to the ppa
[11:44] <tvoss> didrocks, thx
[11:44] <didrocks> for a test build
[11:44] <didrocks> tvoss: I wonder what is pulling it for the other archs TBH
[11:44] <didrocks> but anyway, it's needed to be in the build-dep :p
[11:44] <didrocks> will see this build result
[12:35]  * 6JTAAX1W6 is incognite
[12:35] <tvoss> not anymore :)
[13:16] <cprofitt> hello all
[13:47] <didrocks> tvoss: do you have a minute? I think we need to check with the launchpad guys. It seems to me that the armhf build is blocked: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next/+build/4751091
[13:47] <didrocks> (it's like that for 15 minutes)
[13:48] <didrocks> seems it's taking 0.04 sec on amd64 to pass :p
[14:05] <tvoss> alf, ping
[14:05] <alf> tvoss: pong
[14:06] <tvoss> alf, pm
[15:04] <kdub> good morning
[15:08] <hikiko> ssh: Could not resolve hostname bazaar.launchpad.net: No such file or directory
[15:08] <hikiko> i am getting this error :s
[15:08] <hikiko> does anyone has problems to push?
[15:12] <hikiko> fixed
[15:15] <kdub> reviews piling up!
[17:25] <racarr> Howdy
[17:30] <tvoss_> racarr, hey there :)
[17:30] <tvoss_> how goes?
[17:30] <tvoss_> kdub, you should have edit rights btw
[17:31] <kdub> ah, thanks
[17:37] <racarr> tvoss_: Root canalled about 20 minutes ago
[17:37] <racarr> so it goes pretty...ow
[17:37] <racarr> im assuming as some point thoughts will resume
[17:38] <tvoss_> man, root canal is ouch
[17:40] <racarr> tvoss_: S'ok. I'll distract myself XD
[17:40] <racarr> How goes on your end?
[17:48] <tvoss_> racarr, pretty good, got some stuff to finish for end of month
[17:48] <tvoss_> racarr, but all good
[17:51] <tvoss_> racarr, preparing some vegetarian chili :)
[17:51] <racarr> I should try making that...
[18:01] <greyback> racarr: owww, root canal, nasty
[18:06] <racarr> it really is pretty nasty business. I considered just waiting it out until little nano robots could clean my teeth with lasers
[18:06] <racarr> :p
[18:07] <racarr> greyback: How goes?
[18:07] <greyback> racarr: fine. No real time for Mir stuff today. But tomorrow will
[18:07] <greyback> be on it fully
[18:08] <greyback> racarr: any update for me?
[18:08] <racarr> greyback: Not really. will finish the session stuff today
[18:08] <racarr>  land my other branches
[18:08] <racarr> err, session authorier stuff
[18:08] <racarr> I realized today
[18:08] <greyback> racarr: ok cool. Yep I'd like to see that
[18:09] <racarr> missed the sync up with Katie.
[18:09] <racarr> but you should start talking to Katie
[18:09] <racarr> she did the surface management design
[18:09] <racarr> and there is lots there, including functional tests (some of which are in mir now)
[18:09] <greyback> racarr: yep, I've been reading her documents recently
[18:09] <racarr> which hypothetically one day should run on
[18:09] <racarr> unity/mir and that would be
[18:09] <racarr> awesome
[18:09] <greyback> +1
[18:09] <greyback> where are the functional tests?
[18:09] <racarr> letsseee
[18:10] <racarr> on a page that crashes firefox
[18:10] <racarr> *waits*
[18:11] <racarr> greyback: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1GtXBxUo1M2ya5-6Um-pJ2bhLM-tXYMXDaZvEgr6edMg/edit
[18:11] <racarr> I guess they might be out of date to some of the recent
[18:11] <racarr> design refactoring
[18:11] <racarr> XD
[18:13] <greyback> racarr: then we'd best get them updated. These look very useful, and I'll automate them asap
[18:13] <racarr> there is
[18:14] <racarr> some cucumber code hanging around in mir...weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[18:14] <racarr> yeah
[18:14] <racarr> we should both talk to katie next week
[18:14] <racarr> and then figure out how to get some of them running on unity/mir combined
[18:15] <greyback> racarr: cucumber? When did ppl start using that?
[18:16] <greyback> +1
[18:16] <racarr> greyback: Me and Katie did! in december
[18:16] <racarr> :p
[18:16] <racarr> Katie and I *italics*
[18:16] <racarr> uh
[18:16] <greyback> stop taking all the credit :)
[18:17] <greyback> I'm not a big fan of the abstraction of cucumber in general, but for specific use-cases it will do I guess
[18:17] <greyback> it does make it easier for non-coders to write tests for us
[18:17] <racarr> I have
[18:17] <racarr> mixed opinions
[18:18] <racarr> Cucumber definitely isn't ideal
[18:18] <racarr> lots of sort of things are difficult to express
[18:18] <racarr> I havent thought about cucumber in probably 2 months so it's a little difficult to recall exactly which ones :p
[18:19] <greyback> :)
[18:19] <greyback> no worries, I was just curious
[18:19] <greyback> racarr: It's well past my EOD, gotta go
[18:19] <greyback> hope you have plenty of pain-killers and have a nice easy day :)
[18:20] <racarr> cya
[20:01] <thomi> morning all
[20:04] <racarr> Morning
[20:16] <bregma> racarr, regarding #1194075 (the, uh, embedded cucumber problem), would be be possible to just rewrite the session_manager_steps.cpp tests to use GTest directly instead, so we could simply drop the cucumber?
[20:20] <bschaefer> while running xmir, is anyone noticing ~20-30 seconds where everything hangs? Usually brought on by compiling...but sometimes not
[20:32] <racarr> bregma: There are grand plans for cucumber I guess, the single tet could be rewritten but there is not much point
[20:32] <racarr> if it is actually blocking anyone I think just remove it from the tree
[20:33] <bregma> racarr, it's blocking landing in Ubuntu
[20:34] <racarr> Really?
[20:34] <racarr> Why can't we land in ubuntu with cucumber-cpp embedded
[20:34] <racarr> as long as we are following the licensing
[20:42] <racarr> kdub: Ok I see it is failing, will look around for a bit
[20:42] <kdub> thanks
[20:43] <racarr> kdub: Why all this file synchronization stuff
[20:43] <racarr> isn't it satisfied by
[20:43] <racarr> InputTestingServerConfiguration::wait_until_client_appearas
[20:43] <racarr> ?
[20:44] <kdub> well, that will look on the server side for the client creation
[20:44] <kdub> but we need to wait until after the client has registered its handler
[20:44] <racarr> no
[20:44] <racarr> you can register the handler in the connected callback
[20:45] <racarr> and the client input thread wont be started until after this finishes
[20:45] <racarr> the server will send the first event over the pipe, and wait for this to happen before sending any more
[20:45] <racarr> the thing is the way the handler is being registered now
[20:45] <racarr> the thread can be started and read an event
[20:45] <racarr> before the handler is registered, so it just discards it
[20:45] <racarr> the problem in this test though is on the server side (
[20:45] <racarr> :(
[20:46] <racarr> you can see with MIR_SERVER_LEGACY_INPUT_REPORT=log
[20:46] <kdub> ah... all these secret switches :)
[20:46] <racarr> well they are in --help to be fair :p
[20:47] <kdub> haha, yeah
[20:47] <kdub> well, its somewhere to start then
[20:47] <racarr> kdub: Is it possible
[20:47] <racarr> I am still trying to sort out what has happened all in all
[20:47] <racarr> perhaps because of the way size comes from the buffer stream
[20:48] <racarr> something has changed there?
[20:48] <racarr> I dunno...it says it is dropping the vent because there is no touched window (you can see this in InputDispatcher.cpp)
[20:48] <racarr> but it looks like ms::SurfaceStack::for_each basically works the same way
[20:48] <racarr> so that it m ust have to do with the handles
[20:48] <racarr> when I say must I mean maybe
[20:52] <kdub> hmm, ok
[20:52] <kdub> new places to look at least :)
[20:55] <racarr> kdub: ill research some more too
[21:01]  * robert_ancell -> breakfast
[21:03] <racarr> robert_ancell: ok. 1-1 later?
[21:12] <kgunn> racarr: how you feelin' ?
[21:21] <robert_ancell> racarr, sorry, can do now
[21:29] <racarr> kgunn: Not so bad :)
[21:30] <kgunn> racarr: glad to hear it....ironically...my daughter is on the couch, post wisdom teeth removal (she had 6...and yes...the more you have the more you pay)
[21:31] <robert_ancell> racarr, lp:~robert-ancell/unity-system-compositor/keyboard
[21:38] <kdub> racarr, any insights on that branch?  i've gotten lost in the input stack
[21:40] <racarr> kgunn: Oww
[21:41] <racarr> kdub: Not yet -.-
[21:54] <kdub> racarr, thanks for looking.. . happily I did this in git, so I'll just bisect until I see what happened
[22:36] <xnox> Are you interested in dual-screen bugs where output is not mirrored across dvi and hdmi and there are significant differences?
[22:37] <xnox> also it seems like software rendering + xmir + unity, is faster than hw accel + xmir + unity.
[23:48] <RAOF> xnox: I'm interested in hearing how you can get into a situation where output is not mirrored!
[23:49] <thomi> RAOF: got a second?
[23:49] <thomi> RAOF: I have some more information regarding my xmir i915 issue
[23:49] <RAOF> Oooh.
[23:50] <RAOF> I therefore have a second.
[23:50] <thomi> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5806320/
[23:50] <thomi> that's dmesg
[23:50] <thomi> look at thge last 3 lines
[23:51] <thomi> the contents of that file in /sys coming up....
[23:52] <thomi> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5806322/
[23:52] <RAOF> Right. We've hung the GPU, possibly because of the plymouth segv, possibly *causing* the plymouth segv
[23:53] <thomi> Talk to me like I'm stupid - what's plymouth?
[23:53] <RAOF> The boot splash, input multiplexer thing.
[23:53] <thomi> ahh ok
[23:53] <thomi> anything else I can grab for you while i'm logged in?
[23:55] <RAOF> thomi: /var/log/lightdm/* would be nice.
[23:56] <thomi> lightdm.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5806327/
[23:57] <thomi> u-s-c log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5806328/
[23:58] <thomi> RAOF: are the x-* logs of any use?
[23:58] <RAOF> Not really, no.
[23:59] <thomi> ok
[23:59] <thomi> I scanned them and didn't see anything that stood out
[23:59] <RAOF> Failed to set the current VT mode?
[23:59] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hey, how would you feel about using CLOCK_MONOTONIC timestamps in the lightdm logs?


[01:00] <Kagmar> My USB Mice are intermittently working. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have a forum thread on ubuntuforums.org but I have not got a reply from anyone in 3 days, when I started the thread.
[01:10] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: hi
[01:24] <Kagmar> hi
[01:58] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: is the mice working properly now?
[01:59] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: use my nick name
[01:59] <Kagmar> at the moment yes. but it doesn't always work.
[01:59] <Kagmar> what do you mean use your nick name
[02:14] <phoenix_firebrd> press the letter p and press tab button and my nick name will get auto completed when you message here. I fou use my nick i will get alert in my desktop and i can answer you faster
[02:14] <phoenix_firebrd> press the letter p and press tab button and my nick name will get auto completed when you message here. If you use my nick i will get alert in my desktop and i can answer you faster
[02:17] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: ^
[02:17] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: ok
[02:17] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: nice
[02:18] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: is your mouse a new one?
[02:18] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: yes
[02:19] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: when does it not work?
[02:20] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: at random, I will be doing something when it suddenly stops working and I switch to the PS2 mouse and it works.
[02:21] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: while it was not working I tried 3 USB mice, one PS2 mouse, and the USB mice in a PS2 adapter and only the crappiest of the USB mice worked in the PS2 adapter.
[02:21] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: so when it stops, does the keyboad work? and also the operating system?
[02:22] <Kagmar> The keyboard works, but is PS2
[02:22] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: and so does the os
[02:23] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: so I don't know if keyboards stop working... I do know that usb storage work when the mice don't.
[02:24] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: so as far as I know, its just the USB mice.
[02:24] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: how frequently this happen?
[02:25] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: My USB mouse hasn't acted up in the past 10-12 hrs... but it generally works for a day or so then stops working for 2 or 3 more days.
[02:27] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: I have seen a similar problems in most debian system's bug sites.
[02:28] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: do you have any other linux installations of different versions or in worst case any other operating system?
[02:30] <Kagmar> I used to have windows and Backtrack 5r4 (I think) before my harddrive took a dump, but now I only have Kubuntu 12.10
[02:31] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: not used to needing to use the nicks
[02:31] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: ok
[02:31] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: Can you confirm that the mice's hardware is not the problem?
[02:32] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: yes, it was the same with 3 USB mice and it worked fine in both backtrack and windows before I formatted my hdd.
[02:34] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: Also I have not had problems with PS2 mice.
[02:35] <phoenix_firebrd> Kagmar: have you used paste.kde.org?
[02:36] <Kagmar> phoenix_firebrd: no. I have a thread on ubuntuforums.org with logs of commands I was told to run though.
[02:36] <Guest83575> am i online?
[03:03] <youquex> Anybody got a good mirror for the norteast?  It seems no matter what mirror the poackage manage chooses gfor after running its tests, its always really slow. And I tested my current ISP connection and that isnt the problem
[03:03] <youquex> so if anyone has a "lucky" mirror , lemme know
[03:44] <youquex>  jnesus these mirrors are dirt slow
[03:44] <youquex> ive trioed MIT, RIT, NU CS dept, etc, all colleges in my area
[06:04] <hhhzzzain> is there a way to remove the feature "closed tabs" from rekonq?
[06:05] <hhhzzzain> or how to open the "private mode" by default?
[06:05] <hhhzzzain> for chrome, you add "--incognito" at the end of the launcher command.
[06:06] <hhhzzzain> 253 users are idle?
[06:18] <hhhzzzain> is the offtopic channel have more talkers?
[06:18] <hhhzzzain> does
[06:22] <KimLaroux> it does? I never stoped there. What's the topic, french fries and huricanes?
[06:36] <hhhzzzain> mega.co.nz
[06:37] <hhhzzzain> the new megaupload offering 50gb space with free accounts and encryption
[06:45] <hhhzzzain> bye.
[09:33] <reynaldo> hola
[09:34] <reynaldo> 7help
[09:36] <16WAAAKGY> hello
[09:36] <zizi> hello
[09:36] <reynaldo> hello
[09:36] <zizi> i cant mount my external hard disk
[09:36] <zizi> any advices?
[09:37] <zizi> i can see it from the partition manager
[09:37] <jEhrichs> does anyone know which package contains "plasmaengineexplorer" apt tells me it is in "kde-workspace-bin" but this doesn't contain it
[09:37] <zizi> but it cant be mounted
[09:44] <lordievader> zizi: How are you trying to mount the partition?
[09:55] <theadmin> Hello everyone. I have a problem with sound in Kubuntu - a while after logging in, it dissapears. According to advice I got from BluesKaj yesterday, I added "options snd-hda-intel index=0" to my /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf, but that did not help. The audio device is "Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40)" and the Phonon backend in use is gstreamer.
[10:22] <chr1st0ph> Hello, from time to time I get a SSL auth error popup message for api.opendesktop.org on my KDE Plasma-Desktop.
[10:22] <chr1st0ph> Any idea what wants to connect to the opendesktop api and how to get rid of is?
[10:26] <tsimpson> chr1st0ph: it should be from System Settings -> Account Details -> Social Desktop
[10:29] <chr1st0ph> tsimpson: thx
[10:52] <theadmin> Hello everyone. I have a problem -- sound dissapears a while after logging in. Nothing but a reboot helps. I added "options snd-hda-intel index=0" to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf and pcm.!default { type plug slave.pcm { type hw card 0 device 0 } } to /etc/asound.conf. Neither helped. The phonon backend in use is gstreamer. Pulseaudio is present, but removing it does not solve the problem.
[10:53] <theadmin> I'll be right back.
[11:18] <theadmin> Ok, I'm back. If anything, can "lib32asound2" being installed be the problem? Was a dependency of TeamViewer, and removing TeamViewer (and disconnecting my phone) helped. Now I'm not sure which one was the problem.
[11:20] <sbivol> theadmin: I have teamviewer 8, Kubuntu 12.10 and ATI HDMI sound. had no problems at all
[11:21] <theadmin_> sbivol: Hm, okay, then it must be my phone being connected as "media device".
[11:21] <theadmin_> Though I'm on Precise, but the teamviewer package is universal.
[11:21] <sbivol> theadmin_: shouldn't. Media device probably refers only to the fact that it's a media player
[11:23] <theadmin_> sbivol: Odd. Well, anyway, I beleive the problem is solved. I hope so, at least. I'll try reinstalling teamviewer later... Cause I do need it.
[11:24] <theadmin_> Never mind... The problem is still there :/ Sound disappeared again.
[11:25] <theadmin_> Bah, who ate my nickname.
[11:27] <theadmin> Oh, ha, silly me, sound didn't dissapear, just silence at the beginning of my MP3 this time.
[11:29] <theadmin> And NOW it dissapeared.
[11:31] <theadmin> Hm, no sound in TTYs either. It seems that this isn't KDE-specific, I shall move this to #ubuntu
[11:31] <sbivol> theadmin: please give some more info: Teamviewer version/architecture, KDE version, sund card driver in use
[11:31] <sbivol> s/sund/sound/
[11:42] <sj33023> kqrglkqneg
[12:18] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[15:55] <ovidiu-florin> hello world, I'm searching for the kubuntu backports ppa, but I can't find it again, could someone please help me
[15:55] <ovidiu-florin> ?
[15:57] <BluesKaj> ovidiu-florin, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports
[15:57] <sbivol> BluesKaj: beat me by 5 sec :)
[15:58] <BluesKaj> aboudreault, is this a contest ? :)
[15:58] <ovidiu-florin> thank you
[15:58] <BluesKaj> oops sbivol
[15:59] <BluesKaj> ovidiu-florin, you also find it on launchpad
[15:59] <sbivol> BluesKaj: no, not a contest at all
[15:59]  * sbivol should be lying less
[15:59] <ovidiu-florin> I foud it once on the kubuntu website
[15:59] <ovidiu-florin> I couldn't find it anymore
[15:59] <BluesKaj> !launchpad
[16:00] <ovidiu-florin> thank you
[16:01] <ovidiu-florin> I'll reboot now
[16:18] <ovidiu-florin> hello world, I'm back :D
[16:19] <ovidiu-florin> My computer chashed so I got a new one and now I'm reinstalling Kubuntu and all the applications
[16:20] <ovidiu-florin> where are the keyboard shortcuts stored? the ones that are set up from systemsettings
[16:20] <ovidiu-florin> ?
[16:22] <faLUCE> hi, is there a way to make this usb wifi dongle ("0bda:8178", tplink) work on 12.04 ? the adapter is recognized, but I have trouble during wpa authentication
[16:37] <sbivol> ovidiu-florin: System settings -> Shortcuts and gestures
[16:37] <sbivol> ovidiu-florin: sorry, I misunderstood your question
[16:37] <ovidiu-florin> sbivol: I meant where is the file that stores them
[16:38] <ovidiu-florin> I want to make a script that configures specific settings to a freshly installed Kubuntu
[16:39] <sbivol> ovidiu-florin: ~/.kde/share/config/kglobalshortcutsrc and ~/.kde/share/config/khotkeysrc
[16:40] <ovidiu-florin> thank you sbivol
[16:41] <sbivol> ovidiu-florin: cu plăcere :)
[16:42] <ovidiu-florin> nu mă așteptam la asta :)
[16:43] <sbivol> ovidiu-florin: head over to ubuntu-ro, I'm there most of the time
[17:43] <gspr> Suppose there's a serious upstream KDE bug that affects Kubuntu, and one has taken a simple upstream fix and tested it against Kubuntu's KDE version - how would one go about suggesting said patch for inclusion into (k)ubuntu?
[17:45] <gspr> (I am talking about KDE bug #306186, whose patch applies cleanly against 4:4.9.4-0ubuntu0.2 and fixes the problem)
[17:47] <Riddell> gspr: in the #kubuntu-devel channel or the kubuntu-devel mailing list
[17:47] <gspr> Riddell: Thanks!
[18:21] <ovidiu-florin> where are the setting files for kontact?
[18:31] <DarthFrog> ovidiu-florin: ~/.kde/share/config/kontactrc
[18:31] <ovidiu-florin> thank you DarthFrog
[18:31] <DarthFrog> ovidiu-florin:  That directory is where all your KDE rc (run control) files are kept.
[18:59] <invariant> I was able to unlock my session without writing a password too.
[18:59] <invariant> That's a cool feature :D
[19:07] <przemek_> hello Dears , i have a question is bonnie++ can destroy data on my HDD ?
[19:11] <BluesKaj_> przemek_, any app that can make changes to HDDs can destroy data
[19:11] <przemek_> BluesKaj_: thank You very much for the answer
[19:12] <BluesKaj_> przemek_, there are no guarantees in other words
[19:13] <przemek_> BluesKaj_: yep i know what you mean :)
[20:27] <george_> hello. I've just noticed that kde 4.9.5 update here on kubuntu 12.10 changed the laptop icon on kickoff menu to a desktop one! Why is that and how to return back to the laptop icon?
[20:38] <ovidiu-florin> how do I extract with tar to a specific location?
[20:39] <Peace-> ovidiu-florin: well use dolphin right menu
[20:39] <Peace-> extract
[20:40] <ovidiu-florin> I need the command line way this time
[20:40] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: cd <dir>; tar -zxvf <tar-file>
[20:40] <ovidiu-florin> lordievader: it extracts to pwd?
[20:40] <lordievader> ovidiu-florin: Yes.
[20:56] <alexej> how to get startupmanager
[20:58] <alexej> how to get startup maneger
[20:59] <lordievader> alexej: Do you mean where you can add startup programs/scripts?
[21:00] <TheDrums> !pm | alexej
[21:00] <alexej> no l
[21:00] <alexej> no i wont that windows8 start automatic
[21:00] <alexej> not kubuntu
[21:02] <alexej> I wont that windows 8 start automatic! what i should done?
[21:02] <lordievader> alexej: Easiest way, I'd say, would be to use the Grub-Customizer: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10340183
[21:22] <Guest41705> #japanese
[21:23] <OerHeks> 日本語の場合は /join #ubuntu-jp または /join #kubuntu-jp を入力して下さい。
[22:16] <cahyadi_> can someone help me setting mpd and mpc on my kubuntu
[23:06] <hhhzzzain> what is the default package installer in kubuntu? I can not find it.
[23:06] <hhhzzzain> I had it last night but now its gone.
[23:07] <hhhzzzain> What is the application manager in kubuntu 12.10 called?
[23:13] <hhhzzzain> I am missing my package application installer manager in kubuntu, how do I install it again?
[23:14] <hhhzzzain> I mean to say, how could have happened to it? I did not perform any console commands to remove it.
[23:17] <OerHeks> odd, muon shouldn't be removed, sudo apt-get install muon should bring it back
[23:17] <BarkingFish> evening guys - anyone know where do-release-upgrade falls wrt packages and what provides it please?
[23:18] <BarkingFish> i'm still trying to get up to testing raring ringtail, and do-release-upgrade is broken
[23:19] <hhhzzzain> muon was removed
[23:19] <hhhzzzain> so was the kpackagekit
[23:20] <BarkingFish> kpackagekit went in the move to 11.10, i used to use it - i didn't realize muon had gone too.
[23:21] <hhhzzzain> barkingfish, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[23:21] <shadeslayer> BarkingFish: huh?
[23:21] <shadeslayer> BarkingFish: could you explain a bit more?
[23:21] <BarkingFish> ignore me, i'm getting confused.
[23:22] <BarkingFish> it wasn't kpackagekit that went between 1104 and 1110, it was kpackage, apper's predecessor
[23:22] <BarkingFish> i've had a busy day and a crud night - just ignore my burblings and carry on :)
[23:22] <BarkingFish> sorry
[23:23] <hhhzzzain> what is the package name for "Kpackagekit" software installer?
[23:23] <shadeslayer> apper
[23:26] <hhhzzzain> thank you
[23:27] <hhhzzzain> shadeslayer, is muon installed by default on kubuntu 12.10?
[23:27] <hhhzzzain> or just apper?
[23:27] <shadeslayer> should be
[23:27] <hhhzzzain> Last nigh I had apper.
[23:27] <shadeslayer> apper was dropped for reasons I don't remeber
[23:27] <shadeslayer> I see
[23:27] <hhhzzzain> today it was removed somehow
[23:28] <shadeslayer> check /var/log/apt/history.log
[23:28] <hhhzzzain> apper is still default in 12.10
[23:28] <shadeslayer> no
[23:28] <hhhzzzain> really?
[23:28] <hhhzzzain> I had it last night?
[23:28] <shadeslayer> we ship muon for the last couple of releases
[23:28] <shadeslayer> maybe you installed it?
[23:28] <shadeslayer> separately
[23:28] <hhhzzzain> no ...
[23:28] <BarkingFish> i still have apper
[23:28] <BarkingFish> :)
[23:28] <shadeslayer> :)
[23:28] <hhhzzzain> am I dreaming?
[23:28] <shadeslayer> did you upgrade
[23:28] <shadeslayer> or do a clean install
[23:29] <hhhzzzain> I just installed kubuntu 12.10 yesterday
[23:29] <hhhzzzain> fresh
[23:29] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[23:29] <hhhzzzain> I am not familiar with kde packages.
[23:29] <shadeslayer> sec
[23:29] <shadeslayer> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/12.10/release/kubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.manifest
[23:29] <shadeslayer> no mention of apper ^
[23:30] <hhhzzzain> i have 32 bit
[23:30] <shadeslayer> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/12.10/release/kubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.manifest
[23:30] <shadeslayer> same thing
[23:30] <shadeslayer> so it's impossible for you to have apper unless you explicitly didn't install it
[23:30] <hhhzzzain> I did not.
[23:31] <hhhzzzain> because muon interace looks much differnt, more like apt manager
[23:31] <shadeslayer> can you pastebin your /var/log/apt/history.log
[23:31] <hhhzzzain> ok
[23:31] <shadeslayer> I can tell you exactly what pulled in apper then
[23:34] <hhhzzzain> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1556986/
[23:35] <shadeslayer> hmm
[23:35] <shadeslayer> odd
[23:35] <shadeslayer> Install: plasma-active-mobilecomponents:i386 (2.0+git2012071701-0ubuntu1, automatic), kalarm:i386 (4.9.4-0ubuntu0.1), share-like-connect-data:i386 (2.0+git2012021101-0ubuntu1, automatic), plasma-active-metadatamodels:i386 (2.0+git2012071701-0ubuntu1, automatic), libqtwebkit-qmlwebkitplugin:i386 (2.2.1-4ubuntu1, automatic), share-like-connect:i386 (2.0+git2012021101-0ubuntu1, automatic), plasma-active-data:i386 (2.0+git2012071701-0ubuntu1,
[23:35] <shadeslayer>  automatic)
[23:35] <FloodBotK1> shadeslayer: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:36] <shadeslayer> doing that removes muon
[23:36] <shadeslayer> can someone else reproduce?
[23:37] <hhhzzzain> what should I be looking at there?
[23:38] <hhhzzzain> hmm.
[23:38] <hhhzzzain> I can do it again to see if it removes it?
[23:39] <hhhzzzain> how can I test? how to write the command?
[23:43] <hhhzzzain> shadeslayer, what does this mean? a bug?
[23:43] <shadeslayer> maybe
[23:43] <shadeslayer> needs someone with a clean install
[23:44] <hhhzzzain> i just run apper, that is not the programs i used to installed some alarm clock, different interfance.
[23:44] <hhhzzzain> gui interface.
[23:45] <hhhzzzain> it was more like ubuntu software center since the icons for applications was showing.
[23:46] <hhhzzzain> well I have to go back to windows 7 to do some studying.
[23:47] <hhhzzzain> It was too early to celebrate last night (I finally found my distro and this happened).
[23:47] <shadeslayer> wait what
[23:49] <shadeslayer> anyway, break time for me


[17:35] <TimRiker> my /usr/lib/jvm/.java-1.8.0-openjdk-amd64.jinfo contains lines that start with jdkhl but /usr/sbin/update-java-alternatives does not look for those, and does not update alternatives for those lines.
[17:35] <TimRiker> is this an issue with /usr/sbin/update-java-alternatives ? or an issue with the jinfo file provided by openjdk?
[17:37] <TimRiker> it has this line:    which='^(hl|jre|jdk|plugin|DUMMY) '    which discards the "jdkhl" lines. Not sure if the jdkhl lines are supposed to be there, or if they should just be jdk or hl.
[17:47] <TimRiker> Ubuntu 16.04, java-common 0.56ubuntu2, openjdk-8-jdk:amd64 8u91-b14-3ubuntu1~16.04.1, also using oracle-java8-installer 8u111+8u111arm-1~webupd8~0
[17:48] <TimRiker> is /usr/lib/jvm/default-java supposed to be there? update-java-alternatives does not update that link. Seems like it should, no?
[18:04] <TimRiker> back in a bit...
[18:35] <TimRiker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam might want updating. it still says openjdk-6 is nice.
[18:37] <TimRiker> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java has no mention of 8 (or 9)
[18:38] <TimRiker> oh, 8 and 9 are mentioned down below, just the start only mentions packaging for 6 and 7.