[12:26] <LaserJock> mdke!
[12:26] <mdke> ello
[12:27] <mdke> fill me in on the goss
[12:27] <LaserJock> dude, for some reason the packaging guide is broken on doc.ubuntu.com
[12:27] <mdke> right, is it ok in the Makefile?
[12:35] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I don't know but it validates
[12:35] <LaserJock> let me check
[12:35] <mdke> it's probably not even in the Makefile, I guess
[12:36] <dsas> hmm, shouldn't the java installation stuff just be "enable multiverse, install packages x,y,z" rather than the long instructions we have now?
[12:36] <mdke> dsas: probably, where's the long bit?
[12:37] <dsas> in programming.xml
[12:37] <dsas> it's got instructions that talk about visiting the sun website etc
[12:45] <nixternal> LaserJock: it builds fine on the Kubuntu side
[12:45] <nixternal> or at least it did
[12:46] <nixternal> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/packagingguide/
[12:56] <LaserJock> nixternal: is the packaging guide still shipped in kubuntu-docs?
[12:58] <nixternal> yes
[01:07] <LaserJock> nixternal: ubuntu-docs doesn't
[01:13] <nixternal> well, we can remove it if necessary
[01:48] <LaserJock> nixternal: that would be lovely ;-)
[02:39] <nixternal> OK, so remove the PG from the Kubuntu docs, how about the Server Guide, is this still going to be packaged with Kubuntu docs?
[02:40] <LaserJock> not sure
[02:40] <LaserJock> maybe you should email the list
[02:40] <LaserJock> I think I'm going to make a separate package for the packaging guide
[03:17] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3719 kubuntu/C/internet/internet.xml: Kubuntu Internet content added
[03:32] <nixternal> here we go with the stupid d c c attacks
[03:53] <somerville32> :]
[04:21] <coreyt> Opinion Please.  Would it be better to create a new ubuntu focused distro for a network management server or something like automatix to put one together from a server install.
[04:22] <dsas> something like automatix is never good.
[04:23] <coreyt> So in that sense you are probably against CNR for Ubuntu when it comes out in a few months?
[04:23] <dsas> coreyt: Probably. Haven't read about it yet.
[04:23] <dsas> coreyt: What do you need to do to create  a "network management server" that Ubuntu doesn't do already?
[04:24] <coreyt> I'm talking about something that can easily get Nagios, Cacti and other network management apps working quickly.
[04:24] <coreyt> Nagios is  pain to configure.  It's 2.x and Ubuntu's are 1.x
[04:25] <coreyt> In fact I've ran into Perl CPAN dependency hell.
[04:25] <crimsun> !nagios2 feisty
[04:25] <coreyt> lol
[04:25] <crimsun> err, sorry, wrong channel.
[04:26] <crimsun> the fact of the matter is that nagios2 certainly exists in 7.04.
[04:26] <coreyt> I wont set up anything unless it's on 6.06.
[04:26] <crimsun> ask for a backport to dapper, then.
[04:26] <coreyt> ah nagios2.. I may have missed it :)
[04:28] <coreyt> yeah I wish people would maintain package updates better.
[04:28] <coreyt> Of course then you have people who tinker with the app so a update may break things :)
[05:33] <nixternal> eww CNR ;p
[05:33] <LaserJock> now, now
[05:33] <nixternal> I read that CNR offers its users Firefox 1.5
[05:33] <nixternal> haha
[05:33] <nixternal> CNR == Crap Nobody Reallywants
[05:34] <nixternal> :)
[05:35] <LaserJock> well, I do wonder if that kind of idea is the way of the future
[05:38] <nixternal> it could be, but I don't want to be a part of it
[05:38] <LaserJock> heh
[05:39] <LaserJock> you've seen how hard it is to maintain packages
[05:39] <nixternal> same with the composite stuff as it stands, it is a great thing to draw people in, I don't like and probably won't use it, but it is something we could probably use
[05:40] <nixternal> LaserJock: remember with CNR who knows who is maintaining the packages, plus if they are offering Firefox 1.5 for their users, they aren't doing a good enough job of maintaining
[05:40] <LaserJock> well sure
[05:40] <LaserJock> that's why I don't like it right now
[05:40] <LaserJock> but in the future I wonder
[05:40] <nixternal> no need for a CNR MOTU when we have you and crimsun  :)
[05:41] <LaserJock> a big problem I see is that Ubuntu is so far removed from the software authors
[05:41] <nixternal> you never know. People pushed and pushed for Automatix and Easy Ubuntu, but after realising they are garbage, nobody is pushing for it anymore
[05:41] <nixternal> I have noticed that as well concerning the upstream authors
[05:42] <LaserJock> the only way I could see us doing better is by actually doing the distribution at the author level
[05:42] <nixternal> I would love to help out more, but it seems stuff I have done gets put off because everyone is busy.
[05:42] <nixternal> and it annoys me at times
[05:43] <LaserJock> where?
[05:43] <nixternal> I have been packaging stuff local here for Edgy and haven't done much Feisty stuff since last month probably
[05:43] <nixternal> some of my merges or synch requests that I have filed
[05:44] <nixternal> they go unanswered for a month or so and usually end up being rejected because something newer has come out in the mean time
[05:44] <nixternal> it is of course nobodies fault, and that is the one bad thing about MOTU. there aren't enough of them
[05:44] <LaserJock> it's definately an issue
[05:45] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure what we're going to do
[05:45] <nixternal> I swear, I would owe crimsun a million dollars if he charged me $5 for every packaging question/help that I have received from him
[05:45] <LaserJock> yep
[05:45] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I would say 90% of my work has been uploaded by him, with Riddell doing a few for me as well
[05:46] <nixternal> my goal for Feisty was to make MOTU, but as it seems that will have to wait for Feisty+1
[05:46] <LaserJock> oh, I don't know, there's still quite a bit of time
[05:46] <nixternal> as I need some funky key signing now, and the time to work ratio has shrunk, leaving me with a lot of doc work left to do
[05:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:47] <nixternal> tomorrow and Sunday are my free days now as I am doing the school thing for 12 hours a day Monday - Friday
[05:48] <LaserJock> I think some of our problem is as MOTU have been sucked into the Ubuntu community they get involved in other teams
[05:48] <LaserJock> and pretty soon they have very little time for MOTU work
[05:48] <nixternal> or they just disappear
[05:49] <LaserJock> well, but that will occur in any team
[05:49] <nixternal> true
[05:49] <LaserJock> but it seems kinda prominent in MOTU right now
[05:49] <nixternal> I have stuck it out for a year so far, and the only thing burning me right now is the LoCo stuff
[05:50] <nixternal> I don't see myself leaving Kubuntu anytime soon. I am KDE for a long time and Kubuntu is the best there is if you ask me
[05:50] <nixternal> Mepis is good, but it just has better artwork I think
[05:51] <nixternal> Slackware, it would take a lot for me to go back to it now after getting so used to Debian
[05:51] <nixternal> ya, plus I forgot I am on a couple of KDE teams now, one being KDE documentation for KDE 4 and KOffice 2 now
[05:52] <nixternal> hell, they even gave me server access and all that good stuff
[05:52] <LaserJock> cool
[05:53] <LaserJock> my problem is I don't want to "pick" KDE or Gnome
[05:55] <crimsun> nixternal: well, thankfully I won't be monopolizing the sponsorship. There are a handful stepping up now.
[05:56] <nixternal> hehe
[05:56] <nixternal> next time you are in Chicago, I need my key signed, so when my day comes I will be covered :)
[05:56] <nixternal> there aren't any DDs or MOTUs in Chicago that I know of
[05:57] <crimsun> I'll be in o'hare for a layover next weekend
[05:57] <nixternal> most OSS people here either use Slackware, BSD, or Emacs :)
[05:57] <nixternal> oh really now
[05:57] <nixternal> how long is that layover?
[05:57] <crimsun> 30 mins
[05:57] <nixternal> lol
[05:57] <crimsun> yeah, "no layover" essentially.
[05:57] <nixternal> umm, unless I want to go to prison, i can't meet ya then :)
[05:58] <nixternal> as it is easy to rush through and get all the way to a gate before you are busted anyways
[05:58] <LaserJock> heh
[05:58] <LaserJock> can see the planet post
[05:59] <nixternal> like my flight to Calgary a couple months back. The security guy asked me if I was going to alert him that someone walked past undetected. I told him I wasn't a hero
[05:59] <LaserJock> weird
[05:59] <nixternal> ya, I have no clue why he asked me that, but he got that for a response
[06:00] <nixternal> and when they ask you to remove your shoes, don't ask them to take their top off first or do the "you show me yours, I will show you mine" joke
[06:00] <LaserJock> oh geeze
[06:01] <nixternal> ya, I usually miss my flight because of them
[06:01] <nixternal> or have to rush to get there
[06:01] <LaserJock> I don't rock the boat
[06:01] <LaserJock> I just stand in line like the rest of the cows
[06:01] <nixternal> LaserJock: I usually am myself, but I can't stand ignorance one bit, but those are good jokes though, and darn funny <larry the cable guy>dem dare is funny, i dun care who yaar</larry the cable guy>
[06:03] <nixternal> for instance, today at school (the MBA school), our first day in this class, the teacher gives a test, worth 250 points, the only test larger than this is the finals which are worth 300 points
[06:04] <nixternal> it took most people 4 to 5 hours to complete the stupid test
[06:04] <nixternal> heh, I guess you would get the for instance part since I was in the wrong channel
[06:04] <nixternal> s/would/wouldn't/
[06:06] <LaserJock> oh, I thought it went with the "but I can't stand ignorance one bit" part ;-)
[06:08] <nixternal> well, I guess it could go with that, however ignorant it may be, he got our attention
[06:30] <coreyt> Actually the new CNR will work through the Ubuntu package repository.  So Ubuntu maintains what goes into CNR.
[06:31] <coreyt> nixternal, our CIO mentioned the MBA this week.  Said it's going to be worthless if reports of 50% of students cheat keep cropping up.
[06:32] <LaserJock> coreyt: I don't understand, why would you use CNR then?
[06:33] <coreyt> It provides more than synaptic does
[06:33] <coreyt> given I use apt when I know what I'm looking for though.
[06:33] <coreyt> CNR is what people will want so they can look at an app and see reviews and stuff on how others liked the program.
[06:34] <LaserJock> sure, but that kind of stuff is  being worked on in Ubuntu
[06:34] <coreyt> Today you have to do that through google and joe linux is not going to bother searching stuff up he'll just give up on package management.
[06:34] <LaserJock> google?
[06:34] <LaserJock> that's what g-a-i is for
[06:35] <coreyt> I have no idea what that is so I'm going to guess nobody else who just comes to linux will either.
[06:35] <coreyt> I've been using Linux since redhat 5
[06:35] <LaserJock> heh
[06:35] <LaserJock> it's "Add/Remove Applications" in the menu
[06:35] <boredandblogging> hello, jdong over in #ubuntuforums suggested I post my question here: is there any documentation that needs a home? I just saw a thread on how the author of "How to install anything in Ubuntu" couldn't maintain it anymore. Just wonder if there was a resource for locating other projects that needed homes.
[06:36] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:36] <boredandblogging> basically I've got some space and bandwidth to spare
[06:36] <LaserJock> we have our own servers
[06:36] <coreyt> same here, but I'm looking to redo into mediawiki
[06:38] <boredandblogging> Are the servers for official ubuntu docs?
[06:38] <coreyt> boredandblogging, mine are not
[06:39] <coreyt> how many page views does this get?
[06:39] <coreyt> I can see why, it's bandwidth intensive, should have gone with some smaller or lossier previews and a click for full rez.
[06:40] <LaserJock> boredandblogging: well, we have the shipped docs, and community wiki
[06:42] <boredandblogging> LaserJock: I understand, I just thought someone who wrote up a webpage on their own might need hosting. I know about the official and gwos.org site. Just wondering random other folks who wrote up HOWTOs or a tutorial would need some place to store it.
[06:43] <LaserJock> well, I don't know of any
[06:43] <LaserJock> we encourgage everyone to work on help.ubuntu.com
[06:43] <LaserJock> so that users on have to go to one URL
[06:45] <boredandblogging> yup, that makes sense. thanks for the help guys.
[06:45] <LaserJock> boredandblogging: thanks for the offer though, it's great to see people wanting to help out
[06:46] <boredandblogging> no problem
[06:47] <coreyt> How do you guys deal with documentation that shows some tricky things to do with linux.
[06:48] <coreyt> With any how-to there's always the chance you could cause a less skilled user to screw up their system.
[06:48] <LaserJock> well
[06:49] <LaserJock> we really try hard
[06:49] <LaserJock> and have lots of review
[06:49] <LaserJock> and try to get dev review
[06:49] <LaserJock> and use GUI whenever possible
[06:50] <coreyt> Is there an entry telling users to not install Beryl on Dapper :)
[06:50] <LaserJock> hmm, not sure exactly
[06:50] <LaserJock> there is a fair amount of Beryl/Compiz material
[06:50] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if there is much on Dapper
[06:51] <coreyt> Actually if you install Beryl on Dapper you will break the distro
[06:51] <coreyt> apt-get update will begin to fail
[06:52] <coreyt> and it breaks upgrading to Edgy
[06:52] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:53] <coreyt> I found out the hard way :)
[06:53] <LaserJock> that's why I stick to stuff that's in the repos
[06:53] <LaserJock> or is very trusted
[06:57] <LaserJock> and is why I tend to not like CNR or zeroinstall, etc.
[06:57] <LaserJock> building an OS with thousands of independent software authors is quite difficult
[07:00] <crimsun> for some of those tasks, screencasts are an excellent avenue of propagation
[07:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:00] <LaserJock> I'm hoping to see our screencast project take off
[07:00] <LaserJock> I don't use a GUI enough to contribute, but it seems cool
[07:05] <nixternal> coreyt: I don't see how people could cheat their way through the MBA courses. It isn't any different than any other Masters program
[07:05] <nixternal> plus, a majority of our work is field based with individual one-on-one tests with the professor
[08:48] <popey> LaserJock: I suspect there may be a call for console based screencasts at some point
[08:57] <popey> would have to seriously think about that though, need to make sure the text is readable, so probably scale the font up quite high
[08:58] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[09:01] <LaserJock> popey: it'd probably be nice for a "How to rebuild from source" or "How to build an Ubuntu package"
[09:29] <popey> yes, they're on the list to do Laser_away
[12:53] <mdke> dsas: hiya
[12:53] <dsas> hi mdke
[12:53] <mdke> so for some reason the java stuff is less up to date than what we had for edgy :(
[12:54] <mdke> that's weird, and disturbing because it makes you wonder what else is missing
[12:54] <dsas> mdke: Weird, must have been fixed in the edgy branch and not trunk or something?
[12:54] <mdke> yes. We need to update it, definitely
[12:54] <mdke> if you fancy doing a patch... :)
[12:54] <dsas> heh, sure.
[12:56] <dsas> being offline should mean you get things done more quickly. At least I do.
[12:57] <mdke> yes, that's true of my real life todo list
[12:58] <mdke> but that's pretty short anyhow :)
[01:23] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3720 ubuntu/Makefile: fixing build for packagingguide
[01:23] <mdke> Laser_away: ^^
[01:43] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3721 /trunk/ (60 files in 34 dirs): beginning significant rearranging of Ubuntu directory for ease of translation
[01:51] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3722 ubuntu/ (66 files in 28 dirs): creating C/ directories for each document, moving the xml into them (continuing the migration for ease of translation)
[01:53] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3723 ubuntu/ (18 files in 10 dirs): moving omf files
[01:57] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3724 debian/ (changelog rules): adjusting packaging for new directory changes
[02:04] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3725 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): updates to website build things for new directory structure
[02:04] <mdke> hiya ompaul
[02:10] <dsas> mdke: In Feisty we have java1.6 and 1.5 available, most people are still using java1.5 though...Should I just include a note at the end saying "java 1.6 can be installed following the above instructions, but swapping the 1.5 for 1.6 ?
[02:10] <mdke> dsas: which is preferred?
[02:11] <dsas> mdke: As far as I'm aware most current development is done using 1.4 or 1.5, 1.6 is pretty new, but it is the way forward.
[02:11] <mdke> yeah, a note sounds fine
[02:12] <mdke> dsas: if you do a patch, make sure you create the diff on the xml file only, since I've just hacked around with the directory structure, it will be easier to apply
[02:12] <dsas> mdke: sure.
[02:25] <dsas> mdke: Is it worth outlining basic uses of the C compiler perhaps? I.e. "to compile a C program run gcc -o programname sourcecode.c"
[02:25] <mdke> dsas: in programming.xml?
[02:25] <dsas> mdke: Yeah
[02:25] <mdke> best would be a link to a more comprehensive guide I think
[02:27] <dsas> Ok, I was just thinking longtime C + linux programmers probably know, or at least know where to look. Whereas newcomers (e.g. first year uni CS students) might appreciate "how to compile and run a trivial program".
[02:28] <mdke> dsas: we need to have a think about that programming section. I don't know how well it sits with the new advanced-topics section
[02:32] <dsas> mdke: Ok, I can link to an intro to gcc or something for the moment. I was just thinking that there's lots of whitespace available. Though it may not be good to fill it really.
[02:33] <mdke> dsas: maybe we can merge it with the advanced-topics section somehow.
[02:34] <mdke> there is probably a fair amount of repetition there already
[02:37] <dsas> mdke: Ah, I never saw that before.
[02:37] <mdke> dsas: we just added it this week
[02:43] <dsas> mdke: What are the plans for it?
[02:44] <mdke> dsas: well, they are open
[02:45] <mdke> dsas: what you see now :)
[02:45] <dsas> I guess it would make sense for programming.xml to be "installing programming applications" and for advanced-topic to refer to that.
[02:45] <mdke> right. The manuals for various things are linked to already from advanced-topic
[02:47] <dsas> ah, didn't realise that ApplicationsProgramming actually did anything yet.
[02:48] <dsas> "eGenix mxStack Manual - Manual for eGenix mxStack.", very descriptive.
[02:48] <mdke> yeah, it's always been there.
[02:48] <mdke> hah.
[02:48] <mdke> to fix that you'll have to do a patch on the package
[02:53] <dsas> I think that lots of people will see "writing your own programs", imagine some kind of tutorial, click it and getting a huge wall of meaningless, unsorted API references.
[02:55] <mdke> dsas: do you think it will be possible to tidy it up?
[02:55] <mdke> or maybe change the description?
[02:55] <dsas> some of the things are huge edge cases, the chances that someone will purposefully go through help to find "Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter (v2.5)" are really slim.
[02:55] <dsas> mdke: Is the page auto generated?
[02:56] <mdke> dsas: the second level page is, the advanced-topic page is ours of course
[02:57] <mdke> the ApplicationsProgramming page is generated from the title and descriptions in the omf file for the relevant application
[03:00] <dsas> it's hard to think of a better short name, that fits in with the advanced-topic style, something on the lines of "API documents, language references and programming tools help" isn't exactly intuitive.
[03:05] <dsas> Of course it's hard to make advanced-topic be a programming tutorial, it'd be lengthy and probably out of scope.
[03:11] <dsas> I've sent a patch for programming.xml in the meanwhile though :)
[03:14] <mdke> I suppose we can move programming.xml to be a sub-page of advanced-topics, and move the links to programming into that
[03:15] <mdke> it would probably need to be bulked up a bit, I guess
[03:19] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3726 kubuntu/ (29 files in 29 dirs): moving tbh docs
[03:21] <dsas> ok, what kind of info should I use to bulk it up? Running with the "this is a basic use of gcc" idea I had earlier? extending that to java too?
[03:22] <mdke> I don't really know, tbh. More of an introduction that can better explain the manuals that you can find in the packages
[03:23] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3727 kubuntu/ (17 files in 16 dirs): adding C directories
[03:23] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3728 kubuntu/C/: removing C
[03:27] <dsas> "There is lots of documentation on programming available on your ubuntu system. You can see this by visiting ApplicationsProgramming, much more documentation can be installed by installing "-doc" packages
[03:28] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3729 kubuntu/ (48 files in 30 dirs): moving files into C subdirectories
[03:33] <mdke> hmm, did I leave?
[03:33] <mdke> crazy gaim
[03:36] <mdke> dsas: there is something in internet.xml that needs updating for java too
[03:37] <dsas> mdke: Ok, I'll take a look
[03:37] <mdke> :)
[03:37] <mdke> ok, i'll bbl
[04:04] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3730 /trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): cleaning up
[04:30] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3731 /trunk/ (index.xml kubuntu/Makefile kubuntu/index.xml): fixed Makefile to build all, fixed linking
[04:31] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3732 /trunk/index.xml: oops
[06:26] <glatzor> hi mdke. there was a reason skipping the German translation of the desktop guide in the latest edgy-updates release of ubuntu-docs?
[06:48] <mdke> glatzor: yes, that was a number of fixes that have been waiting in the stable release update approval system for several months. We haven't yet imported any new translations
[06:50] <mdke> nixternal: I don't understand your latest post to the -doc list. Did you read my reply to your earlier one about how pdfs won't make any different to broken links?
[06:51] <mdke> s/different/difference
[06:54] <mdke> glatzor: but in any case, it is still in -proposed, not even -updates yet
[06:56] <glatzor> mdke: the long time frame is quite discouraging.
[06:57] <LaserJock> mdke: thanks
[06:57] <mdke> glatzor: I'm sorry about that, we're pretty busy. If you want to help with importing the translations, that would be fine.
[06:57] <glatzor> mdke: the question is who will be reading it at all after the release of feisty :)
[06:58] <mdke> true
[06:58] <mdke> LaserJock: yw
[06:59] <glatzor> mdke: how many working hours/days do you estimate for the import?
[07:00] <mdke> glatzor: do you mean if you help, or if we do it?
[07:01] <nixternal> mdke: i read it after I sent that
[07:02] <mdke> nixternal: oh, ok. It was an hour and a half earlier, that's why I was confused
[07:03] <mdke> glatzor: iit is quite a long process right now because all the xml validity errors need to be fixed, and adding each new translation to the packaging, and there are lots of documents to do that for. It used to take me several hours. Then you just have to go through the stable release update procedure, which probably takes another few weeks, according to previous experience.
[07:03] <nixternal> ya mdke it just came across after I sent mine, for some reason I was hitting gmail
[07:03] <glatzor> mdke: oh, sorry. I am quite busy with my personal development and translating projects
[07:04] <glatzor> mdke: I cannot donate so much time. sorry
[07:04] <mdke> glatzor: I hope that for the next release we can implement a system to make it easier
[07:04] <mdke> after correcting errors with the xml validity for the first time, we can try and regenerate po files and upload them to Rosetta so that we only have to do that task once, then we can get updates more easily
[07:06] <mdke> it's a real pain ATM
[07:07] <glatzor> mdke: I already spent a lot of time on the translation and the review process. So I have to make a cut, since it doesn't seem to be worth further efforts.
[07:07] <glatzor> mdke: sounds so
[07:07] <mdke> yeah, I understand
[07:08] <mdke> we can maybe just import the german translation, since you've spent so much time on it
[07:09] <glatzor> mdke: that would be nice.
[07:10] <glatzor> mdke: I have got some potatos on my cooker. So see you
[07:11] <mdke> glatzor: :)
[07:11] <mdke> buon appetito
[07:24] <mdke> nixternal: can you send me a copy of replace-doctype-with.py pls?
[07:24] <mdke> (by email)
[07:27] <mdke> nixternal: oh no actually, it's in the repo :) by bad
[07:27] <mdke> my bad <--
[07:29] <nixternal> hehe
[08:30] <mdke> glatzor: rosetta hasn't emailed me my po yet, I presume it's broken?
[08:33] <LaserJock> seems like a lot of Rosetta breakage at the moment
[08:33] <mdke> could be


[00:54] <rww> ithm !hash is <alias> md5sums
[01:21] <IdleOne> !hash
[01:21] <IdleOne> !hashes
[01:32] <Jordan_U> Grr, losing my internet connection...
[01:34] <rww> Jordan_U: for what it's worth, I'd have used /at in autobleh there (10 minute timeout using +q). You should get around to setting it up, makes opping easy ;P
[01:35] <Jordan_U> rww: I've set it up, I just haven't memorized all of the commands. I'll remember that one.
[01:35] <rww> /help autobleh
[01:36] <rww> I use /at, /ar, /abr, and /aq. forgot all the others >.>
[01:39] <IdleOne> /fbi  forward-ban-invite-to-ops
[01:41] <Jordan_U> How do I confirm that autobleh knows that the -ops channel for #ubuntu is #ubuntu-ops?
[01:42] <rww> Jordan_U: banforward me from #ubuntu ;D
[01:42] <LjL> ban me
[01:42] <rww> NO ME
[01:42] <LjL> i'm going to bed anyway, won't bother rejoining ;(
[01:42] <LjL> ME
[01:42] <LjL> ok, ban rww
[01:42] <LjL> just don't unban him after
[01:43] <Jordan_U> So "/af LjL This is a test" ?
[01:43] <rww> I think so.
[01:44] <Jordan_U> "Error: forward channel for #ubuntu was not set..."
[01:45] <rww> did you set it in the configuration file?
[01:45] <LjL> missed your chance!
[01:45] <IdleOne> /af #ubuntu-ops LjL this is a test should work
[01:45] <IdleOne> lol at ljl
[01:46] <Jordan_U> Odd it knows about #ubuntu-de and #ubuntu-de-offtopic by default but not #ubuntu.
[01:46] <rww> maybe the original author ops there ;\
[01:47] <rww> interesting choice of banmask on its part, but looks like it works.
[01:48] <Jordan_U> There was no "This is a test" comment, so I'll need to figure that out.
[01:49] <Jordan_U> Can I just "/modeset -b rww" to undo it?
[01:50] <rww> I removed it already, but I think you'd have done /modeset -b rww!*@ubuntu/member/rww$#ubuntu-ops
[01:50] <Jordan_U> That's what I expected. Unbanning can't be as easy as banning :)
[01:51] <rww> I just op up and use mode; only need speed (and thus scripts) for giving bans/quiets/removes, not removing them, imho.
[01:51] <IdleOne> doesn't autoblen have a /bans that lists all your bans and then a /remove # or somesuch?
[01:51] <rww> don't think so
[01:52] <IdleOne> ok, I dreamed it up
[01:52] <IdleOne> would be a good feature
[01:53] <rww> huh. irssi has an /unban insertnumberinbanlisthere feature. didn't know that.
[01:55] <Jordan_U> So how do I add a nifty comment like "You should know better"?
[01:55] <IdleOne> I knew I saw it
[01:55] <rww> /ar rww you should know better, /ak rww you should know better. you can't add comments to bans (hence us having bantracker)
[01:56] <Jordan_U> Ahh, ok.
[01:56] <IdleOne> you can't add a kick/ban  message?
[01:56] <rww> /abk rww some message
[01:57] <IdleOne>  you can't add comments to bans (hence us having bantracker) ???
[01:57] <rww> kicks and bans are different. IRC supports messages attached to kicks and removes. it doesn't support attaching them to bans.
[01:57] <IdleOne> right
[01:57] <IdleOne> I got you
[02:00] <IdleOne> only thing stopping me from using irssi is the channel/nick management
[02:00] <IdleOne> I need a channel list
[02:01] <IdleOne> nick list I don't need
[02:01] <knome> IdleOne, i can imagine there is a channel list script. if not, you can easily create that yourself.
[02:01] <rww> I used to have trouble remembering numbers. Was easier when I ordered my channels sanely, though.
[02:02] <knome> basically, /window list does show an ugly channel list
[02:03] <IdleOne> knome: I am so used to clicking the channel I want
[02:03] <Jordan_U> I just /join #foo
[02:03] <knome> mee too. with alt+numver ;)
[02:03] <knome> v=b
[02:03] <knome> Jordan_U, that works as long as you don't have multiple networks
[02:03] <Jordan_U> And alt+# for channels I autojoin.
[02:03]  * rww uses escape instead of alt, avoids silly terminal emulator keyboard shortcuts
[02:03] <IdleOne> Jordan_U: some of our ubuntu* channels names are to long to type
[02:03] <knome> then it gets a bit trickier
[02:03] <knome> IdleOne, irssi has autocomplete
[02:04] <IdleOne> hmm
[02:04] <knome> #u[tab×n]
[02:04] <IdleOne> you are started to convince me into giving irssi another shot
[02:04] <knome> of course. ;)
[02:47] <IdleOne> knome: how do i change the number of scroll back lines in irssi?
[02:49] <rww> set scrollback_lines 2342, or /set scrollback_time 1day
[02:50] <rww> s#^#/#
[02:51] <IdleOne> 2342? random number?
[02:51] <rww> ja. default is 500.
[02:54] <IdleOne> thank you btw
[02:54] <IdleOne> ahh it works
[02:55] <IdleOne> sorry for that
[02:55] <IdleOne> figured it was better to test here then in #u
[02:56] <rww> my bantracker record is amusing.
[02:56] <IdleOne> well I think I might use this for a few days
[02:57] <IdleOne> still would like an easier to use channel switching method
[04:02] <IdleOne> it would be nice if ops could get a bouncer account on a "stable" server somewhere as part of becoming an op
[04:04] <IdleOne> free of course
[04:05] <IdleOne> silly question maybe but how do I scroll back in irssi?
[04:10] <rww> IdleOne: page up...
[04:10] <IdleOne> that is so linuxy
[04:10] <IdleOne> heh
[04:12] <IdleOne> rww: how do i close a window?
[04:12] <IdleOne> I really should read the handbook I was given with this new toy
[04:12] <rww> IdleOne: /window close, aliased to /wc in the default settings file
[04:12] <rww> or aliased from, depending on how you see such things.
[04:13] <IdleOne> thank you
[04:13] <IdleOne> does /wc # work also?
[04:13] <rww> yes
[04:14] <IdleOne> ok
[04:14] <IdleOne> and now i just need to setup a highlight word list
[04:14] <rww> irssi spells it hilight for some reason
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Fewer letters!
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> But yeah, that does annoy me when I have to remind myself to use real English.
[05:14] <IdleOne> does the /unban take multiple arguments?
[05:14] <IdleOne> like /unban 1 2 4
[05:14] <IdleOne> /help doesn't say
[05:14] <rww> let's find out!
[05:15] <IdleOne> ok!
[05:15] <rww> IdleOne: yes
[05:15] <IdleOne> cool
[05:15] <rww> i wonder if it can deal with five
[05:16] <IdleOne> also /kn is nice for timed bans
[05:16] <rww> also yes!
[05:16] <IdleOne> why have I not been using irssi for the past 12 years :(
[05:17] <rww> IdleOne: autobleh also has /at for timed +q
[05:17] <IdleOne> yup
[05:17] <IdleOne> that I knew
[05:18] <IdleOne> oh, how do I list +q's
[05:18] <rww> /mode #ubuntu q
[05:18] <IdleOne> ok
[05:18]  * rww ponders removing the rest of the proxy user bans
[05:19] <rww> FloodBots aren't banforwarding open proxies any more... so I think I will do that.
[05:20] <IdleOne> one thing I don't like is you have to provide $nick to /op
[05:21] <IdleOne> /op alone should op $me
[05:21] <rww> /alias opup msg chanserv op $C rww
[05:21] <rww> there's probably a variable for current nick. i don't know it.
[05:21] <IdleOne> I don't want to op you :P
[05:21] <rww> (open proxy bans removed)
[05:26] <rww> you should probably just make ##idleone or something ;P
[05:27] <IdleOne> rww: /alias opup msg chanserv op $C $N
[05:27] <rww> ta
[05:27] <IdleOne> and yeah I should
[05:27]  * tonyyarusso ponders the oddity of not having a personal channel
[05:28] <tonyyarusso> IdleOne: I don't know what your script does, but /quote chanserv op #channel ops me without a nick argument.  Nick is needed to deop, since ops can deop other ops.
[05:29] <rww> so it does. i am a noob.
[05:29] <IdleOne> ahhh need to edit my alias then
[05:30] <IdleOne> why does msg chanserv op $C $N send me a PM?
[05:30] <IdleOne> nm
[05:30] <IdleOne> lol
[05:30] <IdleOne> freak myself out sometimes
[05:30] <tonyyarusso> It doesn't; you opened a PM window with chanserv by using /msg.  This is why /quote wins.
[05:30] <IdleOne> yup
[05:30] <rww> hrm
[05:32] <IdleOne> thanks tonyyarusso
[06:19] <nhandler> IdleOne: If you do '^MSG Chanserv foo' (note the ^, a / is not needed), you won't get the PM window. If you are using irssi now, you might want to look into autobleh as well
[08:11] <rww> idoru is twitchy tonight.
[08:11] <Flannel> yeah, I noticed that.
[08:11] <rww> not that I'll miss that nickname, but still.
[08:11] <maco> wow
[08:12] <rww> My cat is powered by static electricity.
[08:12] <maco> i saw that nick in my all-chan thing and was about to come in here and say something when i saw idoru'd done something already
[08:12] <tonyyarusso> all-chan thing?
[08:14] <rww> tonyyarusso: quassel thing, pane at the top of the window with messages from all channels so you can keep an eye on things in general
[08:17] <Flannel> Look at that, h.u.c went back to non-UUID anchors!
[08:17] <maco> h?
[08:17] <rww> help
[08:18] <rww> Canonical-hosted websites, stable URIs, etc.
[08:18] <maco> ah that
[08:18] <tonyyarusso> yeah.......
[08:18] <Flannel> maco: h.u.c vs w.u.c :)
[08:18] <tonyyarusso> I don't remember what it was, but I found a broken link to a pretty darn basic page recently.  :(
[08:18] <rww> although it's a wiki, so stable URIs are kinda out the window, but whatever.
[08:19] <Flannel> rww: yeah, but they used to be UUIDs, as opposed to #the-title-of-the-heading-with-dashes
[08:19] <rww> tonyyarusso: yeah, ubuntu.com got moved around when they changed the site theme. I'm still cranky about it ;P
[08:19] <Flannel> er, they were originally titles (which made them hooman readable), then they were UUIDs, now they're hooman readable again
[15:14] <tsimpson> so, I've been playing with ubottu.com and I put an https version up (https://ubottu.com)
[15:14] <tsimpson> it uses a self-signed certificate, so your browser will likely complain that it's invalid or something, but it should work anyway once you manually accept the certificate
[15:15] <tsimpson> the bot isn't setup to use any of the https links (yet), so if you want a secure connection, you'll need  to modify the url the bot gives you
[15:16]  * tsimpson hopes Myrtti can sleep a little better knowing there is a secure option available now
[15:23] <Myrtti> thank you
[15:24] <Myrtti> silly mobile keyboard
[15:24] <Myrtti> no smileys
[15:25] <Myrtti> I'm sure there are somewhere...
[15:25] <alabd> ikonia:  hello ,  don't you want remove ban ?
[15:29] <ikonia> alabd: no, or I would have done so
[15:30] <alabd> ikonia:can not get what you mean , do you mean it will be ban for ever ? it's about some months ...
[15:30] <ikonia> alabd: I have no intention of removing the ban.
[15:31] <alabd> ikonia: what should i-humble do ?
[15:31] <ikonia> alabd: not use #ubuntu, and use other Linux based channels as you have been doing
[15:32] <alabd> while i-humble am using ubuntu distro ,what channel should be used for support ?
[15:32] <ikonia> alabd: ##linux
[15:32] <ikonia> as you have been using
[15:33] <tsimpson> or try the forums http://ubuntuforums.org/
[15:33] <ikonia> excellent suggestion also
[15:33] <alabd> ##linux can be used for some issues not all , if linux was enough so why is #ubuntu for ?
[15:34] <alabd> tsimpson: http://ubuntuforums.org/ is not irc channel
[15:34] <ikonia> alabd: ##linux can be used for any linux issues
[15:34] <tsimpson> alabd: I am aware
[15:34] <ikonia> alabd: well, you have your answer, you can use ##linux or any other Linux based IRC channel you wish
[15:34] <ikonia> alabd: we are not here to help you find other channels,
[15:35] <alabd> ikonia: is there any rational reason behind banning a person from ubuntu channel for ever ?
[15:35] <ikonia> alabd: yes, I don't believe you can particiapte in the channel,
[15:36] <tsimpson> alabd: bans are never automatically removed, that are only removed when we have some evidence that the person can abide by the channel rules
[15:36] <alabd> particiapte ? how do you know that ? if yes how do i-humble could particiapte in ##linux ?
[15:37] <ikonia> alabd: because you are a persistnat issue in the channel, that got you banned, therefore I don't believe it's the right channel for you
[15:37] <tsimpson> ##linux is not affiliated with #ubuntu, a ban in one does not effect the other
[15:39] <alabd> tsimpson:  yes i-humble mean if ikonia believes that a person can not use #ubuntu truely how could that person  use ##linux truely ?
[15:40] <ikonia> alabd: because they have different rules
[15:40] <tsimpson> #ubuntu and ##linux have different rules, it's up to the operators in ##linux to decide what is and what is not appropriate for their channel
[15:40] <Myrtti> we're not affiliated with that channel and the operators of that channel make their decisions on their own about if you are a constructive member of the community
[15:42] <alabd> reason of my ban in #ubuntu in some month ago was asking unrelated question , i-humble mean if i-humble have asked unrelated questions in ##linux from that time they would ban me also
[15:43] <ikonia> alabd: ask the operators in ##linux
[15:43] <ikonia> alabd: we only control the #ubuntu channels
[15:43] <alabd> so this is an evidence
[15:43] <alabd> is not it ?
[15:43] <Myrtti> of what?
[15:43] <ikonia> alabd: let me make this clar and short
[15:43] <Myrtti> that they have different rules about unrelated questions?
[15:43] <Myrtti> yes, it would be evidence of that
[15:43] <ikonia> alabd: you are banned from the #ubuntu channel, you are welcome to use other channels
[15:44] <ikonia> (irony of miss-typing clear)
[15:46] <alabd> Myrtti:  evidence of that i-humble don't ask unrelated question again , so my behavior will be adapted with #ubuntu rules
[15:46] <ikonia> alabd: there is nothing more to discuss
[15:47] <Myrtti> alabd: no, it's not
[15:47] <ikonia> alabd: please leave this channel and use any other channels that you are not banned from
[15:47] <alabd> Myrtti:  tsimpson so what is evidence ?
[15:47] <Myrtti> moving on...
[15:47] <ikonia> alabd: there is nothing more to discuss
[15:48] <Myrtti> [17:43] <+Myrtti> that they have different rules about unrelated  questions?
[15:48] <tsimpson> alabd: your ban in #ubuntu is not going to be removed today, if there is nothing else, please leave this channel
[15:48] <alabd> tsimpson: ok no problem for today , my question is how and when will ban removed
[15:48] <ikonia> alabd: there is no set date
[15:51] <alabd> now it is about some months ... and i-humble am ubuntu user and need support in irc sometime , ...what should be done for removing ban ? waiting ? up to  ?
[15:51] <ikonia> alabd: there is no set time, you will not be unbanned at this time
[15:51] <tsimpson> access to #ubuntu is not a right, just because you happen to use Ubuntu does not give you automatic access to #ubuntu
[15:54] <jussi> alabd: if you participate correctly in other #ubuntu-* channels, there is a possiblity that you will be unbanned, but we need to see good evidence that you can follow the rules - in our channels
[15:54] <jussi> alabd: for now though, you will not be unbanned.
[15:55] <Hobbsee> possible heads up on Chaos2358.  he's silent in -devel right now, but who knows how long that will stay for
[15:55] <ikonia> Hobbsee: he's known
[15:55] <Hobbsee> ikonia: cool
[15:55] <alabd> jussi thanks but you should know your way is almost impossible because a normal user of ubuntu may require only #ubuntu for support ,are you agreee ?
[15:56]  * Hobbsee still doesn't get why people think insulting a gropu of people is a way to get support
[15:56] <jussi> alabd: no.
[15:56] <alabd> what other channels do you think a ubuntu user may require? jussi
[15:56] <tsimpson> that's besides the point
[15:57] <ikonia> alabd: you've been told ##linux is available
[15:57] <ikonia> alabd: we are not here here to help you find other channels
[15:57] <tsimpson> you are banned in #ubuntu, so you can not join there. you can join other channels if you wish
[15:59] <alabd> tsimpson:  ikonia me and jussi were talking about other ubuntu-* channels
[15:59] <charlie-tca> Hobbsee, +1
[15:59] <ikonia> alabd: the ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu
[16:00] <ikonia> there isn't another ubuntu support channel
[16:00] <ikonia> that's why ##linux was suggested
[16:01] <alabd> ikonia:  you know i-humble have tried to ask some specific ubuntu question in ##linux but they asked me to join #ubuntu , ##linux is not the same as #ubuntu in suorting ubuntu user
[16:02] <ikonia> alabd: stick with it, people will help you,
[16:03] <alabd> in fact ##linux is not equal to #ubuntu in suporting ubuntu user
[16:03] <ikonia> that's not our issue
[16:03] <ikonia> alabd: you have a choice, use it or don't
[16:04] <ikonia> alabd: now, I think we've made this quiet clear, so if you'd like to leave this channel and go about your IRC day
[16:04] <alabd> ikonia:  :)  , what will be happened if you were persident
[16:04] <ikonia> alabd: I don't know, nor do I care, please leave this channel
[16:05] <alabd> anyway jussi would you answer that question
[16:05] <ikonia> alabd: no, there is nothing more to discuss
[16:05] <tsimpson> alabd: this is not a general discussion channel
[16:06] <alabd> tsimpson:  that was related to this issue see above
[16:06] <alabd> i-humble asked > alabd 12/04/2010 07:25:54 PM
[16:06] <alabd> jussi thanks but you should know your way is almost impossible because a normal user of ubuntu may require only #ubuntu for support ,are you agreee ?
[16:06] <ikonia> alabd: that's not an issue, we have told you the channels and your current situation
[16:06] <tsimpson> we have informed you that the ban will not be removed, there is nothing left to discuss alabd
[16:06] <tsimpson> alabd: he answered with "alabd: no"
[16:06] <alabd> yes
[16:06] <tsimpson> you have the answer, please leave
[16:07] <alabd> and he/she mean a normal user of ubuntu may not require only #ubuntu for support
[16:08] <ikonia> note to the channel he doesn't actually use a stock ubuntu OS, but a very modified version from his friend
[16:08] <Hobbsee> i'm starting to think there should be a drivers licence analogy.  if you lose your licence, it's your problem on how to get home.  the police officer doesn't need to offer you a lift.  as a factoid
[16:08] <Myrtti> ikonia: chaos?
[16:09] <ikonia> Hobbsee: think I've got him calm now
[16:09] <ikonia> alabd: any reason you've come back after you've just been removed from this channel ?
[16:09] <alabd> ikonia: yes
[16:09] <Hobbsee> ikonia: true.  wasn't meaning chaos, though
[16:09] <alabd>  i-humble was talking ... and jussi mean a normal user of ubuntu may not require only #ubuntu for support
[16:09] <jussi> alabd: wheree are you from?
[16:10] <alabd> would you jussi name 1 other ubuntu-* channel that a ubuntu user may use to be evidence
[16:10] <jussi> alabd: where are you from?
[16:10] <alabd> iran
[16:10] <jussi> alabd: #ubuntu-ir
[16:10] <alabd> and who will show evidence to you?
[16:11] <jussi> Im there...
[16:11] <jussi> ;)
[16:11] <jussi> alabd: will there be anything else?
[16:11] <alabd> always ? some months ago i-humble was there almost everyday to answer people questions , you can check
[16:12] <ikonia> alabd: stop arguing it - accept it and move on
[16:12] <jussi> alabd: go back there, use it for support if you need to.
[16:14] <alabd> jussi no it is not good channel for support because skill users are few in there and they most of times don't know my answer , but i-humble was there in months to answer beginer questions  may be it is good evidence ,is not ?
[16:14] <jussi> no.
[16:14] <ikonia> this is wasting time
[16:14] <ikonia> alabd: you know the situation, accept it
[16:15] <Myrtti> what's with the i-humble?!?!?!!
[16:15] <ikonia> to finish what I was saing, alabd's ubuntu install isn't an clean install, it's modified to work with his odd TV card and other things
[16:15] <jussi> Myrtti: long story...
[16:15] <ikonia> Myrtti: it's his name "humble" it's just a language thing
[16:15] <jussi> it used to be "humble"
[16:15] <ikonia> I can't be bothered arguing the "its not ubuntu any more - so don't get support in #ubuntu" with him, as he just doesn't get it
[16:15] <tsimpson> he uses "humble" in place of "I"
[16:16] <ikonia> thats why I didn't mention it
[16:16] <Myrtti> right
[16:16] <tsimpson> alabd: you have been asked to leave
[16:16] <alabd> jussi was my talks finished ?
[16:16] <alabd> tsimpson:  wait
[16:16] <alabd> jussi said
[16:16] <alabd> jussi 12/04/2010 07:24:14 PM
[16:16] <alabd> alabd: if you participate correctly in other #ubuntu-* channels, there is a possiblity that you will be unbanned, but we need to see good evidence that you can follow the rules - in our channels
[16:16] <alabd> and i-humble say you can check ubuntu-ir  for evidnece
[16:17] <Myrtti> I think he's down now, boys
[16:17] <tsimpson> meh, your script is fooey
[16:17] <IdleOne> my script is fooey
[16:17] <IdleOne> got a better one?
[16:18] <tsimpson> depends on your client I guess
[16:18] <IdleOne> irssi
[16:18] <tsimpson> then nope :)
[16:18] <jussi> autobleh?
[16:18] <IdleOne> yup
[16:18]  * Myrtti loves her aliases
[16:18]  * jussi huggles his quassel aliases
[16:18] <tsimpson> banning with the ident@cloak just mean they can change their user and evade the ban
[16:19] <IdleOne> I have to change that
[16:19]  * IdleOne gets on it
[16:21] <jussi> mrgh... seems my planet feed isnt working...
[16:21] <jussi> I wonder what happened
[16:22] <topyli> censorship!
[16:24] <Hobbsee> you need to sacrifice another chicken
[16:25] <jussi> meh, Ill fix it soon
[16:25] <Myrtti> or more herring to the holy Tux
[16:25] <jussi> Im going to change my url scheme to a sane one first
[16:26] <Hobbsee> i'd like to put forward http://squee.icanhascheezburger.com/ for the day's viewing
[16:26] <Hobbsee> and for general sanity purposes
[16:26] <jussi> :D
[16:27] <Hobbsee> soooo cute :)
[16:28] <jussi> Hobbsee: you are geting clucky...
[16:28] <Hobbsee> jussi: hehe, i don't want one
[16:28] <Hobbsee> they're just uber-cute
[16:28] <jussi> lol
[16:28] <Hobbsee> i'm forbidden from having a cat, anyway
[16:28] <Hobbsee> and that's my preferred form of cuteness
[16:28] <Hobbsee> so, pictures will do
[16:29] <jussi> so yeah, as my blog goodness is not making it to planet, Id like to point out: http://jussi01.com/
[16:29] <jussi> particularly the first post
[16:29] <Hobbsee> woot
[16:30]  * Hobbsee --> bed
[16:31] <jussi> nini
[16:52] <myrtti_test> that's funny, the user list seems mighty empty from empathy
[17:28] <IdleOne> ahh my window number changed!
[17:29] <IdleOne> is there a way to make them stay always the same?
[17:29] <jussi> /save  ??
[17:29] <IdleOne> hmm
[17:29] <topyli>  /layout save
[17:29] <jussi> I dont remember - too long since i seriously used irssi
[17:29] <jussi> oh, almost
[17:29] <jussi> :)
[17:29] <IdleOne> thank you jussi and topyli
[17:30] <topyli> trust me, i'm having a beer
[17:30] <IdleOne> hehe
[17:30] <jussi> oh beer!!
[17:30] <IdleOne> follow topyli if you want to live
[17:30] <jussi> pass me one!
[17:30] <IdleOne> pass me two, so I don't bother you in 5 minutes
[17:30] <IdleOne> :-)
[17:32]  * topyli hoards
[17:33] <jussi> aawwww
[17:33]  * Jordan_U hurls an intercontinental ballistic beer
[17:34] <Myrtti> ewww beer
[17:34] <Myrtti> tea, or death!
[17:35] <IdleOne> is there alcoholic tea?
[17:35] <topyli> sure there is. just make some tea, add vodka
[17:35] <IdleOne> win!
[17:36] <IdleOne> profit!
[17:36] <IdleOne> start coding!
[17:37] <IdleOne> think I might need to alias qin win
[17:37] <IdleOne> heh
[17:41] <cdbs> oh hi all
[17:41] <IdleOne> morning cdbs
[17:41] <cdbs> Evening IdleOne :D
[17:41] <cdbs> Its best to say 'Good {morning,afternoon,evening}!'
[17:42] <cdbs> It suites all timezones :D
[17:42] <IdleOne> that would involve me typing more and possibly making more typos
[17:42] <Myrtti> UGT
[17:42] <cdbs> Anyone read what WikiLeaks leaked?
[17:42] <Myrtti> http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
[17:42] <IdleOne> So I stick to my time zone and others can do the temporal conversion for themself
[17:42] <Myrtti> !pm > Gabarus
[17:42] <Myrtti> "moin"
[17:43] <IdleOne> I don't read wikileaks, I heard they were going to be leaking some 2000 pages worth of Canadian Gov. docs this week
[17:44] <Myrtti> USA apparently dictated the new Spanish copyright law
[17:44] <cdbs> WikiLeaks.org is currently DDoSed
[17:44] <IdleOne> The secret will be out now. Canada is taking over Turkey and renaming it to Chicken.
[17:44] <cdbs> lol
[17:44] <Myrtti> cdbs: wikileaks.fi may or may not work
[17:44] <IdleOne> wikilieaks.ch
[17:44] <cdbs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak read it in a much better format here :D
[17:45] <IdleOne> this is best suited for offtopic though
[17:45] <IdleOne> although I suppose a little chatter between team members is ok
[17:45] <cdbs> hmm
[17:45] <topyli> wer should use swatch time!
[17:45] <IdleOne> swatch? they still make those
[17:46] <jussi> jimmy wales is scary... and -ot is the way to go for this discussion :)
[17:46] <topyli> IdleOne: i doubt it, but i guess the time format is still good
[17:46] <cdbs> Swatch time?
[17:49] <topyli> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/internettime.html
[17:49] <topyli> metric!
[17:53] <IdleOne> so the BMT would be 536.81 beats topyli ?
[17:54] <topyli> right now? i don't know, my swatch is broken :(
[17:55] <topyli> http://www.swatch.com/zz_en/internettime.html
[17:55] <cdbs> :o
[17:59] <topyli> the gnome clock applet no longer has internet time as an option apparently :(
[18:00] <topyli> ah it does, just not in the gui
[18:02] <LjL> need to gconf? :(
[18:02] <LjL> why take away visibility from such an essential option
[18:03] <bazhang> cdbs, hi
[18:03] <cdbs> Hi bazhang
[18:03] <bazhang> cdbs, PM please
[18:03] <cdbs> LjL, topyli: Want me to re-implement it and put it in a PPA?
[18:04] <topyli> nah, the gconf key is enough
[18:04] <LjL> nah feel free to do something more useful :P
[18:04] <topyli> :)
[18:05] <mneptok> it's currently @795
[18:05]  * mneptok has Internet time in his irssi statusbar
[18:07] <topyli> i knew someone besides must be old enough to remember
[18:07] <topyli> besides myself
[18:07] <Myrtti> topyli: naula :-<
[18:07] <Myrtti> *cough*
[18:08] <topyli> oh yes you were in school already :)
[18:08]  * topyli hides
[18:08] <Myrtti> can I tell dallen to install mp3blaster :-D
[18:11] <topyli> well it's still supported!
[18:12] <IdleOne> it is in the repos
[18:13] <Myrtti> yes, sure, but it's a ncurses player ;-)
[18:15] <IdleOne> ncurses: because you will use it n curse
[18:17] <topyli> :)
[18:17] <bazhang> that grubed is a script that's been around since gutsy
[18:18] <Myrtti> bazhang: is it safe in any level?
[18:18] <bazhang> Myrtti, not sure about safe, but not very capable/usable compared with grub2 (even the gui PPA are better at this point)
[18:19] <bazhang> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=228104&page=26
[18:21] <IdleOne> that thread says it doesn't work with grub2 anyway
[18:21] <bazhang> yeppers
[18:22] <bazhang> that would be last non-supported way to go. omgubuntu or webupd8 would precede that
[18:50] <IdleOne> the !nvidia factoid should point to System > Administration > Hardware Drivers (or whatever it is called now) before sending to binary howto.
[18:51] <jrib> IdleOne: the page points to that (doesn't it)
[18:51] <IdleOne> not sure
[18:51] <jrib> it does
[18:51] <IdleOne> ok
[18:51] <IdleOne> never mind me then
[18:52] <jrib> IdleOne: mentioning it in the factoid wouldn't hurt
[18:53] <IdleOne> you have the correct path to add to the edit? I'm running +1
[18:53] <IdleOne> not to mention I don't have factoid edit rights
[18:56] <IdleOne> How dare they ask for a distro recommendation other the Ubuntu!
[18:56] <IdleOne> UBUNTU 4 LIFE!
[18:56] <bazhang> mint!
[18:58] <jrib> IdleOne: on Lucid, it's what you said, I don't know about lucid
[18:59] <IdleOne> jrib: for now the factoid does point to the "default" way of installing nvidia drivers. I'll make a note to look up and make edit later
[19:00] <jrib> k, sounds good
[19:00] <IdleOne> wrong X?
[19:00] <IdleOne> heh
[19:01] <jussi> knome: #ubuntu-offtopic!!
[19:27] <Tm_T> !
[19:27]  * Tm_T hides
[19:43] <bazhang> trojanised version?
[19:47] <IdleOne> "hacked"
[19:48] <IdleOne> but I doubt it made it into the repos even if it was hacked
[20:02] <bazhang> he's trolling two channels (well one now)
[20:03] <IdleOne> who?
[20:04] <bazhang> iBeef
[20:05] <IdleOne> oh
[20:05] <IdleOne> he's harassing #windows now?
[20:05] <bazhang> lots of entries for very close IP addy's
[20:05] <IdleOne> patience is definitely something they should teach in school
[20:06] <rww> mornin'
[20:07] <bazhang> hi
[20:07] <IdleOne> morning to you sir
[20:08] <IdleOne> !lubuntu is <reply> /win 34
[20:08] <IdleOne> oops
[20:10] <IdleOne> damn it!
[20:10] <IdleOne> can someone add << /join #lubuntu >> to that
[20:10] <bazhang> !lubuntu
[20:10] <IdleOne> my irssi skills are failing me :)
[20:12] <nhandler> ubottu: !lubuntu =~ s/$/ . \/join #lubuntu for lubuntu support./
[20:12] <nhandler> ubottu: !lubuntu =~ s/$/ . \/join #lubuntu for lubuntu support./
[20:12] <IdleOne> hahaha
[20:12] <IdleOne> ok I'm done
[20:13] <bazhang> :0
[20:13] <IdleOne> thank you nhandler
[20:14] <nhandler> !lubuntu | IdleOne
[20:14] <IdleOne> looks good and thanks again
[20:15] <nhandler> You're welcome IdleOne
[20:40] <IdleOne> btw chanserv.py now has timed bans and +q
[20:41] <IdleOne> git your new version
[20:41] <topyli> ooh
[20:45] <bazhang> really?
[20:45] <bazhang> !chanserv.py
[20:46] <IdleOne> that isn't good
[20:46] <IdleOne> https://github.com/seveas/chanserv.py/raw/master/chanserv.py
[20:46] <IdleOne> bazhang: yes, really
[20:47] <IdleOne> /cs b -tSECONDS nick and /cs mute -tSECONDS NICK
[20:48] <IdleOne> so I spent all night setting up irssi to come back to xchat
[20:48] <IdleOne> oh, how I missed you xchat *huggles*
[20:48] <rww> >.>
[20:48] <nhandler> IdleOne: I thought you said you'd give irssi a fair chance ;)
[20:48] <IdleOne> nhandler: I will
[20:49] <IdleOne> I still have it setup and running :P
[20:49] <IdleOne> two clients one nick
[20:49] <IdleOne> gotta love bouncers
[20:49]  * rww sshes into IdleOne's computer, installs KDE and Quassel
[20:49] <IdleOne> lol
[20:49] <IdleOne> I have a no kde block
[20:50] <rww> heh. I have no libgtk stuff on mine ;P
[20:50] <IdleOne> besides you will never guess my password is rwwisthebestest1
[20:50] <IdleOne> hey that show be ***********
[20:50] <IdleOne> should*
[20:51] <rww> That's mc44's nickserv password. More proof that you're the same person :(
[20:51] <topyli> IdleOne: that's a pretty common password here, you might want something more difficult to guess
[20:51]  * IdleOne changes pass to rwwmakesmewanna_punchhim
[20:51] <bazhang> IdleOne, /cs m -t300 nick for five minutes then?
[20:52] <IdleOne> bazhang: yes but you need to use mute and not m
[20:52] <IdleOne> for some reason it doesn't work with m
[20:52] <bazhang> IdleOne, thanks
[20:52] <IdleOne> if you use m it will -t the channel
[20:52] <bazhang> hehe
[20:52] <IdleOne> yeah
[20:52] <IdleOne> not good
[20:53] <IdleOne> chanserv would kick in and set it again though
[20:53] <IdleOne> but still not good
[20:53]  * rww snuggles /at
[20:54] <nhandler> Yep, autobleh lets you set a default timeout as well as specify a per-quiet timeout
[20:55] <rww> How do you do per-quiet ones?
[20:56] <topyli> something like /at 5 rww
[20:56] <topyli> five minutes
[20:57] <nhandler> Nah, looks like it would be /at rww 300
[20:58] <nhandler> Yep, that is it
[20:59] <topyli> ah
[21:27] <knome> jussi, wut?
[21:27] <jussi> knome: nothing anymore. all good.
[21:28] <knome> jussi, right... now it got interesting?
[21:29] <jussi> knome: we were collecting finns in -ot. nothing more.
[21:29] <knome> jussi, a-ha... :P too bad i was away :P
[21:31] <knome> jussi, i mean saturday evening @9pm, who is ircing then? ;)
[21:31] <jussi> lol, me - sari is at work and Im stuck at home without a car
[21:32] <knome> now wait a sec - we don't even have a car !
[21:32] <jussi> yeah, but you live in the city...
[21:32] <knome> yeah. but it's 7 minutes walking to the train station!
[21:33] <knome> from where it takes 10 minutes to be at absolute city centre of helsinki!
[21:33] <knome> (way too far!!)
[21:33] <jussi> haha
[21:33] <jussi> its 6km to the bus stop and 25km to the city for me...
[21:33] <knome> another choice is to take the 5 minute walk to the bus stop plus a 15 minute bus trip, but that's a bit slow...
[21:37] <IdleOne> the time you guys spent talking about it on irc you could of been there already
[21:37] <IdleOne> just saying :)
[21:37]  * IdleOne pokes jussi in the stomach with a knome
[21:38]  * jussi sits on IdleOne
[21:38]  * IdleOne rocks back and forth singing lullaby to jussi
[21:38] <knome> IdleOne, nah, i only just came home ;) with train from a city not next to helsinki ;)
[21:38] <jussi> lol
[21:39] <IdleOne> go to sleep, my little jussi, time for daddy to start drinking.....la lala la la lala
[21:40] <knome> aww
[21:49] <rww> IdleOne: could have :(
[22:12] <IdleOne> heh
[23:41] <ikonia> emma is actually ban dodging in #xubuntu (although I don't think it's intentional as the ban appears to be old and on emma) as she is currently using the nickname em
[23:49] <ikonia> and in #ubuntu-women
[23:49] <ikonia> not sure if it's intended at emma or another issue
[23:52] <IdleOne> just looks like old bans
[23:52] <IdleOne> I don't recall her being banned recently
[23:52] <IdleOne> in -women
[23:53] <ikonia> well, that's what I'm trying to find out, as they are old bans, she wouldn't need to be banned as she would be banned if she was using the nickname that's banned
[23:56] <rww> I don't see her as banned in #ubuntu-women?
[23:56] <Pici> me either.
[23:56] <ikonia> BT shows her as
[23:56] <rww> BT is wrong, then ;)
[23:57] <Pici> If ubottu missed the unban, then it'll be innacurate.
[23:57] <ikonia> add offtopic, I agree that's probably wrong from what you're saying
[23:57] <ikonia> I can see it in the ban list in #xubuntu
[23:58] <ikonia> it's obvious she's reading the logs as she's just changed nicks and rejoined #xubuntu and #ubuntu-women, but she won't respond to my request to see if she knows what this was about
[23:58] <rww> logs for this channel haven't updated since you brought it up
[23:58] <Pici> ikonia: knows if what was about?
[23:59] <IdleOne> she has also just changed her ident
[23:59] <Pici> She was banned across the entire namespace at one point.
[23:59] <rww> (though they will in the next < 5 minutes)
[23:59] <ikonia> Pici: if she knew if it was her that had been banned or not
[23:59] <ikonia> Pici: yes, but not sure if that's the same thing in #xubuntu
[23:59] <Pici> ikonia: it likely is.
[23:59] <ikonia> it does look quite old
[23:59] <IdleOne> hmm wait, I;m wrong
[23:59] <Pici> IdleOne: you need to reconnect to change your ident.


[03:39] <centHOGG> yo anyone here have one of those little HP elitedesk mini pc?
[03:40] <centHOGG> like a g4
[11:05] <pikapika> Is xfce planning to switch to gtk 4?
[11:06] <pikapika> If, by chance, it turns out a gtk 3 fork is being made will that change future directions?
[11:06] <pikapika> Not saying I will, I don't have the skill for that, but I'd like to know how folks would feel in that hypothetical
[11:07] <Unit193> A one man show to fork GTK3 isn't viable.
[11:20] <pikapika> Certainly, I mean if there is a viable group behind it
[15:55] <xuros> hello,anyone avaliable?
[15:55] <xuros> i have a weird problem to which i cannot find a solution at all
[16:01] <xuros> !ask I get a werid flicker when i try to open FadeIn(screenwritng software),running Xubuntu 22.10 on acer aspir e es1-331,fresh install everything else is normal


[00:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: tntdb [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [1.4-1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
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[00:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted box64 [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [0.2.2+dfsg-2]
[00:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-ratatui [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [0.21.0-1]
[00:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted box64 [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [0.2.2+dfsg-2]
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[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [armhf] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [s390x] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tntdb [ppc64el] (mantic-proposed) [1.4-1ubuntu1]
[05:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: fcitx5 [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [5.0.23-2] (no packageset)
[06:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qt6-base [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [6.4.2+dfsg-14] (no packageset)
[06:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qt6-base [s390x] (mantic-proposed/universe) [6.4.2+dfsg-14] (no packageset)
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[06:43] <LocutusOfBorg> wow ocaml-logs is "uploading" since more than 30m
[06:43] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ocaml-logs/0.7.0-2build11
[06:44] <LocutusOfBorg> maybe qt6 is slowing down the upload process
[06:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fcitx5 [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [5.0.23-2]
[06:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted fonts-ubuntu-classic [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [0.83-6ubuntu2]
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[07:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: linux-firmware-mediatek-genio (mantic-proposed/primary) [3-0ubuntu1]
[07:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [source] (mantic-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1]
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[08:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1]
[08:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: linux-firmware-mediatek-genio (lunar-proposed/primary) [3-0ubuntu1~23.04.1]
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: linux-firmware-mediatek-genio (jammy-proposed/primary) [3-0ubuntu1~22.04.1]
[08:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: linux-firmware-mediatek-genio (focal-proposed/primary) [1-0ubuntu1]
[08:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [source] (lunar-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1~23.04.1]
[08:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [arm64] (lunar-proposed/none) [3-0ubuntu1~23.04.1] (no packageset)
[09:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [source] (jammy-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1~22.04.1]
[09:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [source] (focal-proposed) [1-0ubuntu1]
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[09:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [arm64] (focal-proposed) [1-0ubuntu1]
[09:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [arm64] (lunar-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1~23.04.1]
[09:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-firmware-mediatek-genio [arm64] (jammy-proposed) [3-0ubuntu1~22.04.1]
[10:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: llvm-defaults [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [0.57~exp1] (i386-whitelist)
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[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted llvm-defaults [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [0.57~exp1]
[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted llvm-defaults [ppc64el] (mantic-proposed) [0.57~exp1]
[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted llvm-defaults [s390x] (mantic-proposed) [0.57~exp1]
[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted llvm-defaults [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [0.57~exp1]
[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted llvm-defaults [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [0.57~exp1]
[11:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-prometheus-community-pro-bing [amd64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [0.3.0-3] (no packageset)
[12:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted golang-github-prometheus-community-pro-bing [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [0.3.0-3]
[13:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rednotebook (jammy-backports/universe) [2.24+ds-1 => 2.29.6+ds-2~bpo22.04.1] (no packageset)
[13:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qt6-base [riscv64] (mantic-proposed/universe) [6.4.2+dfsg-14] (no packageset)
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [amd64] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [armhf] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [riscv64] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [arm64] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [s390x] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qt6-base [ppc64el] (mantic-proposed) [6.4.2+dfsg-14]
[13:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: opensbi (lunar-proposed/main) [1.1-2 => 1.3-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[13:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: opensbi (jammy-proposed/main) [1.1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1.3-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[15:38] <_doko> LocutusOfBorg: flang/s390x has unsatisfiable dependency  intended?
[15:42] <LocutusOfBorg> of course not :D
[15:44] <LocutusOfBorg> Uploading llvm-defaults_0.57~exp2.dsc
[15:53] <LocutusOfBorg> I just did git push, not upload
[19:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: glib2.0 (lunar-proposed/main) [2.76.1-1 => 2.76.4-0ubuntu1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[23:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gallery-dl (jammy-backports/universe) [1.25.7-1~bpo22.04.1 => 1.25.8-1~bpo22.04.1] (no packageset)
[23:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: slurm-wlm (lunar-proposed/universe) [22.05.8-3 => 22.05.8-3ubuntu0.1] (kubuntu)


[14:39] <seb128> hey there
[14:40] <seb128> can anyone point me to some documentation / hint on how to generate the ubiquity's translations template?
[19:18] <seb128> cyphermox, ^ you don't know by any chance?
[19:19] <cyphermox> not off the top of my head; IIRC there would be a script somewhere?
[19:29] <seb128> I was trying to use other people knowledge to after to figure that out myself :)
[19:29] <seb128> thx for replying though!


[13:32] <falcojr> the cloud-init SRU has hit proposed pockets
[13:35] <Odd_Bloke> mwhudson has pointed out that subiquity uses the passwords in cloud-init-output.log, so it's possible we'll need to address that regression in this SRU.
[13:36] <Odd_Bloke> (I'm awaiting confirmation on the impact SRU'ing it would have: subiquity pulls things from a variety of sources, so I'm not exactly sure myself.)
[14:40] <Odd_Bloke> I've filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1921124 for this issue, and I've started preparing a fix locally: if we don't need it for the SRU, we can land it later, but if we do need it for the SRU then it's top priority.
[14:40] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: If you could take a look, I'd appreciate validation of my path choice logic; we'll probably need mwhudson to confirm that it will work for subiquity too.
[15:03] <falcojr> since it's not world readable anymore, what about cloud-init-output.log ?
[15:03]  * falcojr runs away and hides
[15:06] <falcojr> But seriously...I think your arguments for /run make the most sense. I'm a little less worried about anywhere else given that the password is only good for first login
[15:07] <falcojr> but I'm also wondering...could subiquity access the console log and use that?
[15:14] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: That's worth investigating: my guess is no, as it's reading directly from the filesystem in the code in question, but there may be a way of implementing that functionality differently.
[19:58] <chillysurfer> hey, Odd_Bloke !! any thoughts on when you think this pr should be able to get a review and merge? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/780
[21:53] <blackboxsw> smoser: otubo is this reasonable/correct https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/721#discussion_r600871109   I think we need to block otubo's LVM resize on this right?
[23:05] <mwhudson> Odd_Bloke: so, let me try to explain how i want ssh to work in the installer live session without talking about implementation
[23:06] <mwhudson> if no config is supplied, there should be an installer user with a random password that is known to subiquity so that it can be shown to the user
[23:06] <mwhudson> it should be reasonably straightforward to supply a pre-arranged password or ssh public key that the user can use to log in instead
[23:09] <mwhudson> is it easy to read the cloud-init config to see if the default user was given a password, i wonder
[23:09] <mwhudson> or easier to just grep /etc/shadow or whatever
[23:10] <mwhudson>     (users, groups) = ug_util.normalize_users_groups(cfg, cloud.distro)
[23:10] <mwhudson>     (default_user, _user_config) = ug_util.extract_default(users)
[23:10] <mwhudson> doesn't seem too bad
[23:22] <smoser> blackboxsw: i think you're right.


[03:25] <harlowja> smoser what are your thoughts on https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/changeable-templates/+merge/208994 (this will help in the py3 update, to have this capability)
[03:26] <harlowja> that combined with https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/py2-3 should get most of the issues out of the way
[15:06] <smoser> harlowja_away, oh yeah. forgot about cheetha.
[15:06] <smoser> the stuff there is backward compat ? in taht it will use the old cheetah format if the template doesnt have 'template: foo' ?
[15:26] <mnaser> i'm seeing issues with cloud-initramfs-tools .. more specifically with the dracut module on el7
[15:26] <mnaser> growpart doesn't seem to run properly.. getting this http://pastebin.com/AH2ftLzX
[16:00] <smoser> mnaser, i suspect you need https://code.launchpad.net/~juergh/cloud-initramfs-tools/dracut-growroot-pre-mount
[16:00] <smoser> personally i thikn the dracut code is racey and broken
[16:00] <mnaser> it looks like it smoser
[16:00] <mnaser> but now im discovering something else
[16:01] <mnaser> you posted this https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/cloud/2013-May/002405.html
[16:01] <smoser> juerg's solution was to make it happen before the disk is mounted
[16:01] <mnaser> centos 7 comes shipped with 3.10
[16:01] <mnaser> does that mean i can just use that and forget the dracut stuff?
[16:01] <smoser> mnaser, i think it shoudl work
[16:01] <smoser> yes.
[16:01] <mnaser> will it run a reboot on the machine?
[16:02] <smoser> no.
[16:02] <mnaser> :>
[16:02] <smoser> it uses 'update'
[16:02] <mnaser> the perks of new linux kernels!
[16:02] <mnaser> heh
[16:02] <smoser> kernel in 3.8 now lets you do that.
[16:02] <smoser> yeah. it is really nice.
[16:02] <mnaser> alright so i'm going to remove it
[16:02] <mnaser> and see what happens
[16:02] <smoser> yeah.
[16:03] <smoser> see growpart --help output
[16:03] <smoser>  --update
[16:03] <smoser> it shoudl dtrt, but requires partx and 3.8+ kernel.
[16:04] <smoser> i think you can just add '--update=on' and it will fail if it doesn't think it is supported.
[16:05] <mnaser> yep looks like it
[16:05] <mnaser> runs the verify_ stuff
[16:05] <mnaser> alright, this is good stuff, let me clear everything and try this out
[16:26] <mnaser> smoser: woohoo, worked! :-)
[16:26] <mnaser> thank you so much, this is a bit of a relief, making images is annoying!
[16:26] <smoser> i agree making images is annoying
[16:26] <smoser> i rant whenever i can that people shoudln't do it.
[16:26] <mnaser> but there is no centos 7 images
[16:26] <smoser> a sane distribution provider would provide them for you
[16:27] <mnaser> at least not *yet*
[16:27] <smoser> maybe you should chekc the sanity of your distro
[16:27] <smoser> :)
[16:27] <mnaser> haha :p
[16:27] <mnaser> the good thing is they're moving towards making that happen
[16:28] <smoser> cool. i'm honestly ok with other distros.  and i do understand that there are lots of reasons why "just use ubuntu" isn't really an option.
[16:29] <smoser> but we really try to make "just use ubuntu" the obvious solution when you say "boy, this could work better".
[20:38] <harlowja> smoser right the idea for https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/changeable-templates is that it will work with cheetah or jinja
[20:38] <harlowja> and peopel that will want python3 will really be required to use jinja (since cheetah sorta dead)
[20:38] <smoser> right
[20:38] <smoser> harlowja, good
[20:39] <harlowja> smoser https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/py2-3 keeps on getting bigger though, lol
[20:39] <harlowja> stupid stuff changes :-P
[20:40] <harlowja> but the only library that doesn't appear on python3 is i believe the oauth one and cheetah
[20:41] <smoser> and oauth is supposed to be dropped anyway
[20:41] <harlowja> kk
[20:42] <harlowja> i don't understand why they moved so many modules around in py3
[20:43] <harlowja> and then six had to come in and fix that, lol


[11:59] <marios__> Hello
[21:27] <krnekhelesh> hey guys, is there a way to plot the graphs of the number of unity bugs since 11.04?
[21:27] <krnekhelesh> I mean I am sure the bug reports should be on the decline but may be a graph will help visualise that
[21:27] <greg-g> I'm sure bdmurray has that graph auto-generated every day :P
[21:27] <krnekhelesh> greg-g: wat, really?
[21:28] <krnekhelesh> greg-g: that's cool, I should ask him, interested to see the trend
[21:28] <krnekhelesh> bdmurray: ping
[21:29] <greg-g> So, I'm not promising, but he does tend to have graphs that are generated at night on that kind of data for important and/or buggy packages
[21:29] <bdmurray> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/unity
[21:29] <krnekhelesh> bdmurray and greg-g: thnx
[21:29] <greg-g> :)
[22:26] <kklimonda> can apport attach crash logs, make bugs closed and add proper tags for the retracing sevice, or should we still close bugs when we are asking users to upload a crash report using apport?
[22:52] <hggdh> kklimonda: I am not sure, but I think as far as retracing goes, we will need a new bug
[22:54] <kklimonda> hggdh: yeah, source code seems to agree with you :)