[00:59] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: going back to SergioMeneses' question, have you got slides to use for the classroom session tomorrow? (I'll be a helper, just in case)
[01:00] <balloons> JoseeAntonioR, no I didn't prepare any
[01:00] <balloons> since this is my first classroom, I guess I should look a bit more into what the normal format is
[01:01] <balloons> my plan was to talk, stream a little bit, then do q & a
[01:01] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, yep, that's fine
[01:01] <JoseeAntonioR> it's just that some instructors do slides for the people
[01:01] <JoseeAntonioR> and what do you mean by stream?
[01:11] <balloons> JoseeAntonioR, well, I was considering giving demos
[01:11] <balloons> my sessions is more q and a than anything
[01:11] <balloons> and perhaps follow along
[01:11] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: hmm, and that was supposed to be on air?
[01:11] <balloons> informational
[01:12] <balloons> I was avoiding doing an on-air
[01:12] <balloons> lol
[01:12] <balloons> I think it would detract
[01:12] <balloons> but I could be wrong
[01:12] <JoseeAntonioR> yes, as people are not aware of that
[01:12] <JoseeAntonioR> and moving from one side to another can get them confused
[01:12] <balloons> yes, I know.. I didn't ask
[01:12] <balloons> :-)
[01:12] <JoseeAntonioR> :)
[01:12] <balloons> I didn't want to flip flop
[01:13] <balloons> anyways, so yea, plan is basically go through some things
[01:13] <balloons> then do q &
[01:13] <balloons> phi's sessions starts the instructional stuff
[01:49] <SergioMeneses> balloons, JoseeAntonioR Im back!
[01:50] <SergioMeneses> maybe next time balloons can do some slides :D it is really helpful
[02:18] <jono_> someone mind redditing http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/15/ubuntu-phone-sdk-experiments/ ?
[02:22] <JoseeAntonioR> doing it
[02:23] <JoseeAntonioR> upvotes here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/16lbnn/ubuntu_phone_sdk_experiments_jono_bacon/
[02:24] <jono_> thanks JoseeAntonioR
[02:24] <JoseeAntonioR> sure
[02:31]  * popey upboats
[05:11] <snap-l> jono_: Three hours of Open Metalcast are on http://metalinjection.fm
[05:48] <jono_> snap-l, nice!
[15:28] <s-fox> morning jono_
[15:28] <jono_> hey s-fox
[15:28] <jono_> sorry I missed your prv msg
[15:28] <jono_> I have to run out now though
[15:28] <jono_> lets chat later this week
[15:28] <s-fox> no worries - have a good day
[15:39] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: ping
[15:43] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: just wanted to make sure, are the classroom sessions 1h sessions or just 30min sessions?
[15:45] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: I put them on the calendar for 1hr in case they go over
[15:46] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: got it, thanks!
[15:46] <SergioMeneses> pleia2, thanks!
[15:47]  * pleia2 out for some before-work touristing
[15:47] <pleia2> thanks JoseeAntonioR!
[15:47] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: enjoy your day :)
[16:08] <balloons> JoseeAntonioR, shjould be in 3 hours
[16:08] <balloons> ohh.. lol, 30 mins for me
[16:13] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: :P, got it
[17:51] <jono> mhall119,  can you reach out to the guy creating the reddit reader for the phone for me
[17:51] <jono> I want to see if we can get him some design support
[17:51] <jono> sounds like a great app :-)
[17:52] <daker> jono: he is on #ubuntu-phone (GuidoPallemans)
[17:52] <mhall119> jono: sure, isn't that one of our targets?
[17:52] <jono> mhall119, indeed
[17:52] <jono> daker, cool!
[17:53] <jono> I have to run out to meetings so I just wanted to hop online quick to ping about it
[17:53] <mhall119> jono: ok
[17:53] <jono> thanks mhall119
[17:53] <jono> this could be a great posterchild for further apps
[17:53] <jono> I will add this to my list of things I want from Ivo ;-)
[18:42] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: ready in ~20mins?
[18:49] <balloons> ready in 10
[18:50] <JoseeAntonioR> cool
[18:55] <JoseeAntonioR> balloons: starting in 5, please join #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
[20:50] <jcastro> mhall119: man dude, check this out http://www.iloveubuntu.net/twitter-app-tori-and-reddit-reader-demonstrate-how-interesting-apps-can-be-created-recently-released
[20:51] <mhall119> one of these days I'm going to draw a comic about the mythical "man dude"
[21:12] <doctormon> mhall119: Can you draw?
[21:13] <czajkowski> I just think of the turtles every time I hear it
[21:13] <czajkowski> DUDE
[21:14] <czajkowski> Awesome
[21:14] <czajkowski> totally
[21:14] <czajkowski> wicken!
[21:14] <czajkowski> ninja turtles
[21:14] <pleia2> wicked :)
[21:14] <czajkowski> that too
[21:21] <mhall119> doctormon: I used to
[21:21] <mhall119> yeah, wicken sounds like something totally different
[21:22] <doctormon> pleia2: lol
[21:22] <doctormon> mhall119: Do you have a gallery?
[21:22] <mhall119> doctormon: nope
[21:23] <mhall119> I used to do a bunch in high school, but then switch my focus to comp-sci and mostly stopped
[21:23] <mhall119> never did anything on computer either
[21:23] <doctormon> mhall119: As I was explaining to a new recruit for team programmer last night; design is more important than technicals these days.
[21:24] <mhall119> yeah, I saw a blog saying essentially that just recently
[21:24] <doctormon> (and I don't mean just UI design, but code and api design)
[21:25] <doctormon> pleia2: How goes the edu-reboot?
[21:50] <czajkowski> *yawns* evening folks
[21:50] <czajkowski> it's only Tuesday and I am in fact exhausted
[22:15] <pleia2> doctormon: I think jasna is working on getting the demo into canvas
[22:15] <pleia2> hopefully we'll have something to show for the work soon :)
[22:22] <doctormon> pleia2: Awesome, it's not about making the content right, just the course structures.
[22:42] <daker> hi mhall119 do you have a min ?
[22:58] <mhall119> daker: sure
[22:58] <daker> mhall119: thanks cjohnston is here, you will get a mail in a minute
[22:59] <mhall119> oh no, cjohnston too?
[22:59] <daker> yes
[22:59] <cjohnston> what
[22:59] <cjohnston> huh
[22:59] <cjohnston> im not here
[22:59] <czajkowski> doctormon: seen the -loco conctacts list they were looking for images for locoteams and approved locos no design folks suggested anything, thought that would have been a nice opportunity from the design community to get involved
[23:04] <daker> mhall119: i released 0.3.11 with 47 bugs fixed
[23:04] <daker> with django 1.3
[23:04] <mhall119> \o/
[23:04] <mhall119> that's a lot of bug fixes
[23:05] <daker> :) i know
[23:05] <mhall119> not in production yet though?
[23:19] <daker> mhall119: i just sent an email to IS, i CCed you
[23:20] <SergioMeneses> ok good night guys! i see you later
[23:21] <doctormon> czajkowski: thanks for the heads up
[23:28] <mhall119> daker: awesome work
[23:29] <daker> mhall119: thanks
[23:29] <daker> thanks to cjohnston too :)
[23:30] <cjohnston> :-)
[23:30] <bkerensa> cprofitt: "BTW.. Are you the Cnet guy ??" in other channel
[23:30] <bkerensa> lol


[14:59] <mpt> Hi snwh!!!
[14:59] <mpt> LOUD NOISES
[15:03] <mpt> Oh dear, what did I do
[15:41] <snwh> mpt, what did you do?
[16:09] <mpt> snwh, you complained how quiet #ubuntu-design was, so I said "Hi snwh!!!" and "LOUD NOISES" and you dropped off IRC immediately
[16:12] <snwh> mpt, oh. I wasn't complaining, it was just an observation. :) -and skype had crashed by computer :/
[16:13] <mpt> You make a valid point, though, we should do more here
[16:13] <snwh> "Topic for #ubuntu-design set by wendar at Fri Dec 16 12:02:30 2011"
[16:13] <snwh> 2011 lol
[16:14] <mpt> Right now I'm designing the fix for bug 1033226
[16:15] <snwh> I've been getting feedback from gnome designer regarding an icon I did for dconf-editor (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/dconf-editor.svg)
[16:16] <mpt> A consummate V
[16:17] <snwh> ?
[16:17] <snwh>  /me googled
[16:17] <mpt> http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html
[16:18] <snwh> i was thinking  consummate as in marriage night
[16:21] <snwh> I'm still confused.
[16:22] <mpt> "And then, using consummate Vs, give him teeth, spinities, and angry eyebrows."
[16:22] <mpt> Anyway, the point is that that checkmark looks a bit more like a V than a checkmark. :-)
[16:23] <mpt> Moving it to the left would fix that.
[16:25] <snwh> there's an "unmagnified" that's outside the glass too that is unseen on white
[16:25] <snwh> and I did have a smaller 'v' in an older version: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/dconf-editor-alt.svg
[16:37] <snwh> mpt, since you're working on it :P - I've just noticed that the tabs are bit close to the "Techinical Description" https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/updater.png
[16:38] <mpt> snwh, true, I want to merge those tabs into a single field
[16:38] <mpt> but I'd better discuss that with mterry
[16:39] <snwh> I also thought that it doesn't expand very much either -the treeview especially for a long list
[16:39] <mpt> ugh, yeah, expanders are busted in GTK generally
[16:40] <mpt> By default it's supposed to be "tall enough to show six items in the list, with a minimum height of three items"
[16:40] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdates#expanded
[16:40] <mpt> But then it doesn't resize properly when you collapse it, so you resize it manually, then when you expand it it tries to obey that manual sizing, etc
[16:41] <snwh> Oh GTK
[16:42] <snwh> speaking of GTK, do you know (or know of someone who can tell me) how the breadcrumbs a la GCC are done? we want to emulate them in unity tweak tool.
[16:43] <mpt> GCC has breadcrumbs?
[16:43] <mpt> oh I see
[16:43] <snwh> the All Settings > Whatever
[16:44] <mpt> snwh, <https://code.launchpad.net/~software-store-developers/software-center/4.0> has better ones, with interlocking buttons
[16:44] <mpt> (we dropped them altogether in 5.0)
[16:46] <snwh> cool, cause right now we have duplication with the toolbar and overview layout https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/utt.png
[17:00] <mpt> If you have just that many panels, you don't need those toolbar buttons at all
[17:01] <mpt> And if you have only two levels of hierarchy -- the table of contents + the individual panels -- you don't need breadcrumbs either
[17:02] <mpt> snwh, you could have something like the navigation mocked up in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareAndUpdatesSettings?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=drivers-settings.mockup.png> instead.
[17:05] <snwh> mpt, the All Settings button, just being a button to the front page?


[03:06] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:27] <rainshadow> good morning
[03:29] <hassletime> good morning
[03:29] <hassletime> :P
[12:06] <lotuspsychje> ogra: input-remapper - Input device button mapping tool (metapackage) is pretty cool if some keys not working anymore, remap them elsewhere
[12:07] <lotuspsychje> my laptops tab was dead, fixed it with this, but got a new kb now
[12:08] <ogra> nice
[12:09] <ogra> well, my kbd has many worn out keys ... i tend to type on a real kbd on my desktop and that has really heavy switches, so the thin dell laptop kbd can not really cope with my heavy hits
[12:10] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/keyboards/skeleton-60-percent/ ...
[12:10] <ogra> (requires nearly the force of a typwriter)
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> i got a Logitech, Inc. Corded Keyboard K280e otop the clevo temporary
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> wow that kb : o
[12:14] <ogra> 🙂


[12:15] <rick_h_> bac or benji, either of you able to help me cover calls at 10am today?
[12:15] <benji> rick_h_: sure.  What does that mean? :)
[12:16] <benji> (and what time zone?)
[12:21] <rick_h_> benji: 10am edt
[12:22] <benji> thanks
[13:09] <rick_h_> benji: nvm, meeting got moved to thurs
[13:11] <benji> rick_h_: ok
[13:37] <jcastro> rick_h_, I noticed the promulgated bundle isn't showing up still
[13:37] <rick_h_> jcastro: on jujucharms?
[13:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: or on comingsoon?
[13:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: jujucharms has to wait for a deploy. The link I gave you was comingsoon which it should show ok for
[13:38] <jcastro> ah, it's on comingsoon
[13:39] <rick_h_> yea, we'll do a deploy this week before charm school
[13:39] <jcastro> rick_h_, prod deploys before friday though right?
[13:39] <rick_h_> and the marketing thing
[13:39] <jcastro> perfect, thanks
[13:44] <jcastro> rick_h_, hey so
[13:44] <jcastro> how does the GUI react/show colocated services these days?
[13:44] <jcastro> like if I wanted to do some all-in-one bundles?
[13:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: it doesn't. It's the current project. To add a machine view
[13:44] <rick_h_> I'll mention it on the uds session
[13:45] <jcastro> ok so what happens if we have a bundle with coloe'd services, will they still work or does the whole thing fall apart?
[13:45] <rick_h_> the bundle should work, but there's no indication in the gui that they're colocated.
[13:45] <rick_h_> though I'll be honest, we've not tried it out yet
[13:45] <jcastro> ok I think I will wait for the machine view
[13:45] <rick_h_> k
[13:45] <jcastro> what's the TLDR on that, 14.04, past 14.04, or 14.10?
[13:46] <rick_h_> 14.05 ish
[13:46] <jcastro> ta
[13:54] <hatch> morning
[13:54] <rick_h_> morning
[13:55] <frankban> guihelp: anyone available for a quickstart review? https://codereview.appspot.com/72520044 no qa and thanks
[13:56] <hatch> sure
[13:56] <bac> frankban: just one?
[13:57] <frankban> bac: technically I need two. But it's mostly code moves. Anyway, if you want to take a look it would be appreciated
[13:57] <bac> ok
[13:57] <frankban> thank you both
[14:09] <hatch> frankban all done
[14:10] <hatch> luca___ rick_h_  in a design of the inspector there was a button for removing the relations - the code is there but the UI is not.... (re the comments on the bug #1289469)
[14:10] <_mup_> Bug #1289469: Remove relation button missing from relations tab in inspector <juju-gui:Won't Fix> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289469>
[14:11] <frankban> thanks hatch! I'd still be inclined to have two separate functions, the current logic seems explicit and intuitive
[14:12] <frankban> bac: are you doing the review?
[14:12] <bac> frankban: yes
[14:12] <hatch> frankban sure no problem, I was thinking of abstracting that out of the app and into the ssh utils class but thats just personal preference :)
[14:13] <frankban> bac: cool
[14:13] <frankban> hatch: ack
[14:13] <hatch> ugh I hate DST changes...all of my meetings are an hour earlier
[14:13] <hatch> :P
[14:14] <hatch> rick_h_ can we move the 1:1 either an hour later or earlier on wednesday?
[14:14] <rick_h_> hatch: otp, can look in a min
[14:14] <hatch> ack
[14:20] <bac> frankban: done
[14:23] <jcastro> anyone know how this happens? https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/search/~bwtiffin/raring/gnucobol-sample-0/?text=cobol#readme
[14:23] <jcastro> the readme looks like proper markdown
[14:25] <hatch> jcastro the file doesn't end in md
[14:26] <hatch> .md that is
[14:34] <frankban> bac: thanks
[14:51] <bac> jujugui: are we meeting in 10 or 70?
[14:51] <hatch> 10
[14:51] <hatch> :(
[14:51] <bac> i'll :( that too
[14:51] <hatch> us non DST people have to pay for the DST peoples sins
[14:52] <bac> i think the people with the wildly fluctuating time should suffer, not use rational people
[14:52] <bac> s/use/us/
[14:52] <hatch> lol
[14:54] <hatch> rick_h_ so do I get a +1 on my inspector base branch after the missing render test gets added?
[14:55] <rick_h_> bac: yea have it for 6 min from now
[14:55] <rick_h_> bac: but will bring up if moving it makes sense
[14:55] <rick_h_> hatch: hmm, I forget, looking
[14:55] <bac> rick_h_: i'm ok with it.
[14:55] <hatch> tbh I'm ok with the new time - only because google keeps track of the DST changes for me :)
[14:56] <hatch> odly enough tomorrows standup is at 10
[14:56] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, I moved tomorrow due to vuds
[14:56] <hatch> ohh
[15:00] <rick_h_> jujugui call now
[15:01] <rick_h_> benji: able to standup?
[15:02] <benji> rick_h_ oh, I thought it was an hour later; coming
[15:27] <jcastro> rick_h_, ugh, the GUI is still spitting out bundles that don't pass proof, the "if the relations were reversed" thing again
[15:28] <jcastro> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7068198/
[15:28] <jcastro> why is this not valid?
[15:30] <hatch> does a bundle need to pass proof to be listed in the search results?
[15:32] <hatch> ohh sorry now I get it
[15:32] <hatch> the exports are exporting backwards
[15:32] <hatch> jcastro does it deploy?
[15:33] <jcastro> yes
[15:33] <hatch> so that seems to me like proof is wrong then
[15:33] <jcastro> hey bac
[15:33] <jcastro> I am having a hard time pushing a bundle
[15:33] <jcastro> jorge@jilldactyl:~/src/bundles/rails-simple$ bzr push lp:~jorge/charms/precise/bundle/rails-simple/bundle
[15:33] <jcastro> bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~jorge/charms/precise/bundle/rails-simple/bundle/": : Cannot create branch at '/~jorge/charms/precise/bundle/rails-simple/bundle'
[15:33] <jcastro> shouldn't that work?
[15:34] <hatch> rebooting
[15:37] <rick_h_> jcastro: was otp, looking]
[15:39] <bac> jcastro: bundle replaces the series name.  so try lp:~jorge/charms/bundles/rails-simple/bundle
[15:39] <bac> jcastro: here is the URL for one of mine: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bac/charms/bundles/muletrain/bundle/
[15:39] <jcastro> aha! so the instructions are wrong
[15:39] <jcastro> fixing
[15:39] <bac> yay
[15:40] <hatch> rick_h_ ok I'm pretty confident that my wifi issues are caused by putting osx to sleep
[15:40] <rick_h_> hatch: ugh
[15:41] <hatch> apple quality
[15:41] <rick_h_> jcastro: where's this bundle so I can check it out?
[15:41] <hatch> who do I have to pay to get someone to fix the linux kernel bug?
[15:41] <hatch> :)
[15:42] <rick_h_> hatch: no, proof cares about direction
[15:42] <rick_h_> hatch: if we're exporting them wrong we need to file a bug and fix them
[15:42] <rick_h_> hatch: the deployer doesn't care about order though and will get things deployed
[15:42] <hatch> rick_h_ right - but if the bundle is valid (deploys) then proof is wrong
[15:43] <rick_h_> but the deployer isn't the final say of truth. Deployer deploys bundles with local charms
[15:43] <rick_h_> but we don't ingest them :)
[15:43] <hazmat> rick_h_, order should not matter
[15:43] <rick_h_> It's a bug that the deployer deploys them
[15:43] <rick_h_> hazmat: we talked with core about it and were told order mattered
[15:43] <hatch> no I'm pretty sure that order is not important
[15:43] <hazmat> rick_h_, that's so short-sited.
[15:43] <jcastro> rick_h_, pushed it here: https://code.launchpad.net/~jorge/charms/bundles/rails-simple/bundle
[15:43] <hatch> blarg, so confusing heh
[15:43] <hazmat> rick_h_, deploying local charms is a huge point to deployer.. its doesn't fit with the sharing use case
[15:43] <rick_h_> hazmat: k, we're going off what we were told from core. That's what we implemented
[15:44] <hazmat> rick_h_, but it would if deployer did a bundle/zip format
[15:44] <rick_h_> hazmat: understood. Just saying that proof isn't all about 'will it blend'
[15:44] <hazmat> true
[15:44] <hazmat> rick_h_, just saying deployer wouldn't exist without the local charm use case
[15:45]  * rick_h_ looks for the notes and bug that lead to us making relations directional
[15:51] <hatch> rick_h_ I think CI is down.....
[15:52] <hatch> https://saucelabs.com/jobs/3515492a81b640c8a0ecf8dfa210e3cd
[15:54] <rick_h_> hatch: looking, wonder if the port isn't updated up any more :/
[15:55] <hatch> how could that happen?
[15:56] <jcastro> rick_h_, yeah so we need to fix this by friday if at all possible
[15:57] <rick_h_> jcastro: k, benji can you find the old communication around that order of relations stuff
[15:57] <jcastro> this didn't show up in my "are bundles ready to be shipped" tests because directional-ness (is that a word?) wasn't an issue before
[15:57] <rick_h_> jcastro: right, if order doesn't matter we can go back on it
[15:57]  * benji looks
[15:58] <rick_h_> jcastro: but we hit a bug originally that started all this and now I'm not able to find the original bug
[15:58] <jcastro> well that depends if order really matters right?
[15:58] <rick_h_> jcastro: so we'll get our notes together and figure out what to do
[15:58] <rick_h_> jcastro: well the order error came out of a bug that we were pulling in bad bundles to start with
[15:58] <rick_h_> jcastro: so I want to make sure we don't just pull the change and put a new bug back in place
[15:58] <jcastro> yeah
[15:59] <jcastro> I personally don't care if order matters or not, just that something the GUI exports can work, heh.
[15:59] <rick_h_> jcastro: rgr, so this is a gui export?
[15:59] <rick_h_> jcastro: like I told hatch, if we're exporting them out of order then we should fix that
[15:59] <jcastro> yes, they are all GUI exports, all I do is mangle envExport to be a name
[15:59] <hatch> the GUI export does not take order into consideration when exporting
[16:00] <hatch> because when it was written order didn't matter
[16:00] <benji> rick_h_: my IRC logs were a victim of my lost partition, but I recall Kapil saying that the deployer respects and enforces relation directionality
[16:01] <rick_h_> hatch: ci port got closed up. re-opening. It's a victim of server maint. I think
[16:01] <hatch> rick_h_ so who's fault is this? I just want to make sure that this doesn't get broken in the future
[16:01] <rick_h_> hatch: give it another go and when it's running you should be able to hit that url now (ci.jujugui.org:8888)
[16:02] <rick_h_> hatch: it's the fault that MS does maint which takes down/up machinse every so often and the port isn't a port setup by the charm. It's manually done and it must have gotten lost in the maint from MS.
[16:02] <jcastro> rick_h_, if you can tell me how to mangle the existing order relation that would unblock me
[16:02] <rick_h_> hatch: it probably will, but it's a pretty obvious failure. The saucelabs says it can't hit the url. If you can't either, then it's not there to hit
[16:02] <hazmat> benji, directionality is a bit of a misnomer that's not specified on the cli, deployer does respect relation creation ordering
[16:02] <jcastro> lines 25 and 26: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jorge/charms/bundles/rails-simple/bundle/view/head:/bundles.yaml
[16:03] <hatch> rick_h_ We are hosting this on Azure?
[16:03] <rick_h_> jcastro: sorry, multi-tasking here as our CI is down atm. I've got it pull down and tesing it out
[16:03] <rick_h_> hatch: yes
[16:03] <hatch> ohh, maybe we should look into switching to someone else
[16:03] <rick_h_> benji: no can do
[16:04] <hatch> I'd just hate for you to be on vacation and the CI goes down until you get back :)
[16:04] <rick_h_> hatch: it's the first time since CI went up and the azuire credentials are in the wiki for everyone else to use ;)
[16:04] <benji> rick_h_: ??
[16:04] <rick_h_> benji: bah sorry
[16:04] <rick_h_> hatch:  no can do
[16:04] <benji> :)
[16:04] <rick_h_> benji: looking through your old branches to see if I can find a branch that rings to the bug
[16:04] <rick_h_> any gmail fu for 'relation ordering' is apprecited benji (not sure if it'll find the pull request/etc)
[16:05]  * benji looks
[16:05] <hatch> rick_h_ ok so the ci docs need to be updated then? I didn't see any reference to the host or where to find information on it in there
[16:05] <rick_h_> hatch: because the ci docs are public. I emailed ~peeps I thought. If not sorry. It's in the CI page in the private wiki
[16:05] <hazmat> rick_h_, relations are a list.. the list order is respected.. not sure which bug triggered it.. but imo if ordering matters to relations its a bug in the underlying charm
[16:06] <hatch> rick_h_ right, I'm just saying we should probably have a line which says 'see the wiki for azure details' or something
[16:06] <hazmat> deployer respects the order due to playing in the real world...
[16:06] <rick_h_> hazmat: yea, I want to find the original bug. This all started for some legit reason and it's long enough I can't recall
[16:06] <rick_h_> hatch: patches welcome :) thanks
[16:06] <hazmat> rick_h_, any chance of uistage/comingsoon moving to canonistack ?
[16:06] <rick_h_> hazmat: so it'll be a new staging and yes. RT is filed and been in the list for a month or two now
[16:06] <hazmat> rick_h_, low priority.. just wanting to be able to shut down that instance.. thanks
[16:06] <rick_h_> hazmat: oh hmm, well the charmworld one, due to dns mangling it's first on the list for comingsoon
[16:07] <rick_h_> hazmat: yep, we've got rts in to work on getting that moved around
[16:07] <benji> rick_h_: this is the branch that adds a hint about bundle errors due to incorrect relation order: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/charmworld/1263120-allow-self-referential-relations-in-bundles/+merge/202373
[16:08] <rick_h_> benji: awesome thanks
[16:09] <rick_h_> hazmat: so can you +1 then that per that branch and bug order matters? ^
[16:12] <rick_h_> hazmat: so the requires end of a relation must be specified before the provider of that relation? Or am I just confused?
[16:20] <rick_h_> jcastro: did http://paste.ubuntu.com/7068467/ testing it in an lxc right now to make sure it comes up right
[16:20] <rick_h_> jcastro: filing a bug on the gui to get the order righgt
[16:21] <jcastro> what do the - - and - mean btw?
[16:21] <jcastro> if you're busy you can explain that to me later actually
[16:22] <rick_h_> jcastro: the first - means "here be a relation"
[16:22] <hazmat> rick_h_, no.. within a relation pair order doesn't matter, between pairs the order is respected
[16:22] <rick_h_> and the second - means "here's the first point, next one is below"
[16:22] <hazmat> rick_h_, ie add-relation x y vs add-relation y x doesn't matter
[16:22] <jcastro> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7068476/
[16:22] <hazmat> rick_h_, but add-relation x y, add-relation a b will always happen in that order
[16:22] <jcastro> the complex one gets way more complicated
[16:22] <rick_h_> hazmat: ok then. Confusion in that
[16:23] <rick_h_> hazmat: I suppose the 'order was respected' got confused between the "list of all relatoins in the bundle" and the "order of a single relation"
[16:23] <rick_h_> thanks hazmat, jcastro filing bugs to get sorted out
[16:24] <hazmat> benji, rick_h_ so -1 on that branch, cause  order within a relation doesn't matter to juju
[16:24] <jcastro> link or CC me on the bug, I'll need to keep track so I can get in as many bundles as I can when it's fixed
[16:24] <rick_h_> jcastro: rgr
[16:25] <hazmat> jcastro, re the syntax its a list of lists re - -
[16:25] <benji> if we need to change proof's behavior, that's fine, but the branch in question didn't introduce the behavior in question (it only reported it to the user better)
[16:26] <rick_h_> benji: right. So right now there's no behavior issue other than proof is sending an error and so won't ingest
[16:26] <hazmat> jcastro, i sometimes find it helpful to do, cause yaml is subset of json.. i typically do  - [x, y]  to avoid the - - nesting
[16:26] <rick_h_> benji: and these are bundles that come straight out of the Gui
[16:29] <hatch> has anyone run into an issue when the loader wouldn't find a file defined in modules-debug?
[16:29] <rick_h_> hatch: no, it's doing a full make clean-all and build so should be fine
[16:30] <hatch> yeah the file is clearly in the list '/vagrant/app/views/inspector-base.js', but then I get Error: ENOENT, no such file or directory 'node_modules/yui/inspector-base/inspector-base.js'
[16:30] <hatch> somehow it's being added to the YUI modules list as well
[16:30] <hatch> './node_modules/yui/inspector-base/inspector-base.js',
[16:31] <rick_h_> benji: I've added a bug/card. Can you look at that next after your current branch is up?
[16:32] <benji> rick_h_: sure (it may take a little longer than expected, this moring has been interruptful)
[16:32] <rick_h_> benji: rgr, thanks.
[16:32] <rick_h_> jcastro: you're subscribed. Will get it next in line and work on getting it into the deploy by EOW
[16:32] <jcastro> cool, I have enough bundles in the queue so it hopefully won't hold up the line
[16:33] <rick_h_> jcastro: I can verify that swap of order works
[16:33] <rick_h_> jcastro: deployed that bundle with that change to lxc with quickstart
[16:33] <jcastro> ok I can get that one in then
[16:33] <hatch> rick_h_ so the issue is proof or the GUI?
[16:33] <rick_h_> jcastro: rgr
[16:33] <rick_h_> hatch: proof, the gui's not helping by not caring about order either
[16:34] <rick_h_> hatch: but the fix can just be letting proof let it through
[16:34] <hatch> ok cool, so order does matter or doesn't?
[16:35] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, sorry catching up. have a diff to look at for your loader issue?
[16:35] <hatch> figured it out.....pebkac error
[16:35] <hatch> YUI().add() vs YUI.add()
[16:35] <rick_h_> ah, yay
[16:35] <hatch> that should really throw instead of working in a cryptic manner
[16:35] <hatch> but oh well
[16:35] <jcastro> rick_h_, ugh you're going to hate me, found another problem
[16:36] <hatch> lol
[16:36] <jcastro> the GUI exports the GUI in the bundle
[16:36] <jcastro> but if you try to quickstart the bundle
[16:36] <jcastro> it bails because the bundle has the GUI defined
[16:36] <hatch> ^ hehe
[16:36] <hatch> so much discussion around that one
[16:36] <jcastro> yeah
[16:36] <hatch> I think we should give you the option to export the GUI
[16:36] <rick_h_> jcastro: yes, known bug. It's on the todo list but won't be there by EOW
[16:36] <jcastro> so I take it, you want me to just remove the GUI from all the bundles?
[16:36] <hatch> manually yes :)
[16:37] <jcastro> ok I'll just do that
[16:40] <luca___> rick_h_: I've cleaned up https://drive.google.com/a/canonical.com/?tab=co#folders/0B7XG_QBXNwY1V3B3dDNvYXJGRE0
[16:40] <rick_h_> luca___: awesome thanks
[16:41] <luca___> rick_h_: no worries, I've asked spencer to update the visuals to make sure they are all the latest, so it should be up to date by the end of our day
[16:41] <rick_h_> luca___: ok that sounds great. Appreciate it.
[16:43] <luca___> rick_h_: to highlight to the user which environment they are deploying to in the deployment summary what can we say? something like " Deployment summary – Prodstack" or would it better as a affirmation like "These changes will be deployed to Prodstack"?
[16:43] <rick_h_> luca___: I'm not sure we have a name atm so I'd start with "Deployment summary" to start with
[16:44] <luca___> rick_h_: I see, thanks
[16:44] <rick_h_> luca___: but I like the first as it's shorter and easier to see a word I recognize (my env name)
[16:44] <jcastro> rick_h_, do you have the bug handy for quickstart/juju-gui?
[16:44] <rick_h_> but it's just personal preference
[16:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: yep, sec
[16:44] <rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1249039
[16:44] <_mup_> Bug #1249039: Exporting from real environment exports juju-gui as well <juju-gui:Triaged> <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1249039>
[16:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: &
[16:45] <rick_h_> err ^
[16:45] <jcastro> ack, filed this too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm-tools/+bug/1290444
[16:45] <_mup_> Bug #1290444: Bundle proof should check for juju gui <Juju Charm Tools:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290444>
[16:45] <jcastro> that should cover us
[16:45] <rick_h_> jcastro: k, will note that one as well.
[17:35] <hatch> rick_h_ I just got an email from MS saying that there was a maintenance restart on all the single instance machines :)
[17:36] <rick_h_> hatch: yea
[17:36] <rick_h_> they've been warning me of that for a while
[17:36] <rick_h_> it's been rescheduled twice
[17:36] <rick_h_> but I didn't know it would kill the open port
[17:36] <hatch> I wonder if ec2 kills the open ports when rebooted
[17:36] <rick_h_> no
[17:36] <hatch> seems like a bug to me
[17:38] <hatch> rick_h_ does the merge system use a different machine?
[17:38] <hatch> merging my branch had the same issue
[17:41] <rick_h_> hatch: no, I'm looking. oh it uses 8889 doh
[17:41] <hatch> :)
[17:42] <rick_h_> applying change
[17:46] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, restarted it from the github side
[17:47] <hatch> thanks
[17:53] <rick_h_> bac: any luck getting a query plan?
[17:54] <bac> rick_h_: not yet
[18:00] <hatch> rick_h_ I think I am going to convert the inspector base class into an extension and have the viewlet manager create new instances of the views now that it doesn't need to support viewlets
[18:00] <hatch> care to have a hangout to pre-imp?
[18:00] <rick_h_> hatch: sure
[18:00] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpi6bn708kprean3vnlq1vas?hl=en
[18:18] <hatch> rick_h_ http://ci.jujugui.org:8080/job/juju-gui-merge/178/console lol wth
[18:18] <hatch> CI is going boom!
[18:19] <rick_h_> hatch: grrr
[18:20] <rick_h_> hatch: crap, looks like we hit that new connect update.
[18:21] <hatch> hmm, is it versioned? can we switch to back to the old version
[18:22] <rick_h_> hatch: not sure, it seems strange.
[18:22] <rick_h_> hatch: this is the good part http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069098/
[18:23] <rick_h_> hatch: got a phone call in a couple of min. Will have to look at it in a bit
[18:24] <hatch> this might have been a bug caused by the npm update and re-shrinkwrap
[18:24] <hatch> we should still be using connect 2 :(
[18:25] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, not sure
[18:25] <rick_h_> hatch: can you see what version we list in trunk?
[18:27] <hatch> rick_h_ various versions of 2.x
[18:28] <rick_h_> hatch: so that's still listed in the deps file?
[18:28] <rick_h_> the 2?
[18:28] <rick_h_> "various versions" ?
[18:29] <hatch> there are a few deps which have connect as their deps
[18:29] <hatch> so we are running multiple versions of it depending on the dep
[18:29] <hatch> dep dep dep depppppp
[18:29] <hatch> :)
[18:42]  * hatch lunching
[18:48] <bac> rick_h_: i'm continuing to poke at elasticsearch running on staging.  i'm having a hard time getting the interactive queries using curl to work the way i expect.  i suspect i'm doing something silly.
[18:50] <rick_h_> bac: otp, can look in a sec
[19:10] <rick_h_> bac: how goes?
[19:11] <bac> hey rick_h_.  chatting with curtis to pick his brain
[19:11] <bac> rick_h_: you want to hangout real quick like?
[19:11] <rick_h_> bac: cool sure thing
[19:11] <rick_h_> shoot me a linky and I'll join up
[19:12] <bac> rick_h_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Z2FyeS5wb3N0ZXJAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.t3m5giuddiv9epub48d9skdaso
[19:34] <hatch> rick_h_ did you have a chance to get the merging ci back up?
[19:35] <rick_h_> hatch: no, on calls
[19:36] <hatch> ok np, I've finished the changes I'd make so I was going to push them up, but they include the currently-pending branch as well
[19:37] <rick_h_> hatch: k
[19:39] <hatch> rick_h_ here is the wip https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/172/files just keep in mind that it includes that other branch in the diff as well
[19:46] <bac> rick_h_: fwiw, here is a working query against staging using httpie http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069565/
[19:46] <bac> no explain, just a query
[19:46] <rick_h_> bac: right cool
[19:46] <bac> yes, much nicer than curl
[19:47] <rick_h_> :)
[19:47] <bac> but elsec ftw
[19:47] <rick_h_> very cool
[19:59] <hatch> rick_h_ would you like me to take a look at the ci failures?
[19:59] <rick_h_> hatch: looking now. The npm versions are the same for the test run vs the merge rnu
[19:59] <hatch> ok cool
[20:00] <rick_h_> the error is coming out of the node js http server in the test-server.js
[20:00] <rick_h_> which is odd, why would it fail here and not in the test rnu
[20:00] <rick_h_> but merge does a make clean-all
[20:01] <hatch> sorry I can't offer any input, I haven't looked at how the CI runs since ben and I set it up the first time :)
[20:01] <rick_h_> hatch: it's there in the make file :)
[20:01] <rick_h_> and the jenkins config
[20:01] <hatch> well...any knowledgable input :D
[20:01] <rick_h_> everything you have access to
[20:01] <hatch> right, I meant from memory :)
[20:15] <hatch> https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/net.js#L342 so apparently no handle is being created for whatever reason
[20:15] <hatch> ^ rick_h_
[20:16] <rick_h_> hatch: think I've got it
[20:16] <rick_h_> running a merge right now on my branch to verify
[20:16] <rick_h_> hatch: I think the reason is that the address was already in use
[20:17] <hatch> hmm
[20:17] <rick_h_> http://ci.jujugui.org:8080/job/juju-gui-merge/182/console
[20:17] <rick_h_> to follow along at home
[20:17] <hatch> lol ok
[20:18] <hatch> I'm wondering why the address being in use would cause address to return null and not an error
[20:18] <hatch> address()
[20:18] <rick_h_> because the way it was written. server was not defined
[20:18] <rick_h_> server.address() died as it had no handle I'd imagine
[20:18] <rick_h_> well, we'll see I guess. maybe I'mwrong
[20:19] <rick_h_> no, it's running tests now
[20:19] <rick_h_> cool
[20:19] <rick_h_> I've updated how it starts the server so the new error is:
[20:19] <rick_h_> events.js:72
[20:19] <rick_h_>         throw er; // Unhandled 'error' event
[20:19] <rick_h_>               ^
[20:19] <rick_h_> Error: listen EADDRINUSE
[20:19] <rick_h_> per http://ci.jujugui.org:8080/job/juju-gui-merge/181/console
[20:19] <rick_h_> which is a LOT more obvious
[20:19] <hatch> cool - that must have been a 'recent' change to the Server class returned from createServer
[20:20] <hatch> haha yes this is a much better way
[20:20] <rick_h_> once this branch of mine lands you should be safe to :shipit: yours
[20:20] <rick_h_> and then you can redo your pull request for review
[20:21] <hatch> yeah I'll wait for this one to land first :)
[20:22] <hatch> ok queueing up 171 again
[20:34] <hatch> ugh these http json requests are killing this CI
[20:34] <hatch> I bet if we fixed that it would cut the CI time in half lol
[20:37] <rick_h_> geeze, it's 4:30?! /me missed where today went
[20:38] <hatch> oh yeah you guys are now 2h away from me
[20:38] <hatch> guess I'll be lonely for more of the day now :'(
[20:38] <rick_h_> some days just don't feel like you moved the needle forward at all ugh
[20:38] <hatch> truth!
[20:40] <rick_h_> yay, landed
[20:40] <hatch> yay
[20:43] <bac> rick_h_: results from staging.  still looking at it.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069840/plain/
[20:46] <rick_h_> bac: is it just me or is this just a few results?
[20:46] <rick_h_> I find score 11 times on there?
[20:46] <rick_h_> hmm, total says "384" ? /me is confused
[20:47] <hatch> paste was probably like '5MB? fogetaboutit!!!'
[20:47] <rick_h_> no, it looks complete, but 11 results let to 384 in our results?
[20:59] <jcastro> rick_h_, bbcsupermicro is having a hard time deploying a bundle
[20:59] <jcastro> what's the URL structure again?
[20:59] <jcastro> juju quickstart bundle:http://launchpad.net/~jorge/charms/bundles/mediawiki-simple/bundle
[21:00] <rick_h_> bac: so in looking at this it seems like there's something missing. It shows 384 total but only lists 10 here. These 10 are good results though. Scores go from 20 down to 1. I like these results you pasted and wonder if we can ignore the rest like they seemed to
[21:00] <jcastro> juju quickstart bundle:~jorge/charms/bundles/mediawiki-simple/bundle
[21:00] <jcastro> also doesn't work
[21:00] <rick_h_> jcastro: checking
[21:01] <bac> rick_h_: still looking.  trying to read that file in as json so i can play with it.  not parsing.
[21:01] <rick_h_> jcastro: sec, the deploy stuff gives you the specific revision. Looking for a revisionless url.
[21:01] <rick_h_> juju-quickstart bundle:~jorge/mediawiki-simple/5/mediawiki-simple
[21:02] <jcastro> ugh
[21:02] <rick_h_> is meant to work for yours from the deploy tab
[21:02] <hatch> bac right, it's invalid
[21:02] <jcastro> that's not what the help says
[21:02] <jcastro> oh ok
[21:02] <bac> thanks hatch
[21:02] <jcastro> bbcmicrocomputer, ok so for each bundle
[21:02] <hatch> bac json needs the key and value to be quoted with "
[21:02] <bac> hatch: yep
[21:03] <jcastro> bbcmicrocomputer, the GUI has deploy instructions
[21:03] <bac> hatch: sadly it has apostrophes in the data.  so they have to be sorted out.
[21:03]  * bac sorting it out
[21:04] <rick_h_> jcastro: juju-quickstart bundle:~jorge/mediawiki-simple/mediawiki-simple works for me
[21:05] <bbcmicrocomputer> rick_h_: jcastro: yep, working now
[21:05] <rick_h_> jcastro: so the revision is optional
[21:05] <rick_h_> bbcmicrocomputer: awesome
[21:05] <rick_h_> bbcmicrocomputer: if you get a sec, put together a pastebin of what you tried and we can look into trying to make that more obvious or better
[21:06] <hatch> rick_h_ selenium timeout failure on my branch landing :/ will re-run
[21:06] <bbcmicrocomputer> rick_h_: k
[21:07] <rick_h_> hatch: I think that's saucelabs :/ grrr but we know that one self heals at least
[21:07] <rick_h_> I've got to run and get the boy from day care. I'll check back in later.
[21:07] <hatch> yeah - I think that the http requests are exacerbating the issue...but whichever
[21:07] <hatch> ok cool cya
[21:08] <rick_h_> we've got 100s of test runs without issue and about 6 of these timeouts.
[21:08] <rick_h_> it can't be that bad
[21:08] <hatch> right - it just seems to break on them
[21:08] <hatch> brb
[21:17] <jcastro> rick_h_, out of curiosity did your demo mode thing land?
[21:18] <jcastro> bbcmicrocomputer, I'll file a bug with the URLs you tried so we don't lose it
[21:19] <bbcmicrocomputer> jcastro: k, thanks
[21:19] <bbcmicrocomputer> anyone know how to clear out notifications
[21:19] <bbcmicrocomputer> i.e. hide errors from the public :)
[21:37] <hatch> oh CI
[21:43] <jcastro> hatch, man, that URL gave me an idea
[21:44] <hatch> lol which url?
[21:44] <jcastro> juju-quickstart bundle:~jorge/mediawiki-simple/mediawiki-simple
[21:44] <hatch> ohh
[21:44] <hatch> what is your idea?
[21:45] <jcastro> you know how we do https://jujucharms.com/precise/mysql/
[21:45] <jcastro> as a convenience URL
[21:45] <hatch> yup
[21:45] <jcastro> we should just make https://jujucharms.com/bundle/mediawiki-simple
[21:45] <rick_h_> jcastro: not yet
[21:46] <hatch> as rick_h_ drops the mic and walks away
[21:46] <hatch> lol
[21:46] <rick_h_> hatch: huh?
[21:47] <rick_h_> jcastro: the demo thing that is.
[21:47] <rick_h_> jcastro: fighing too many fires to get to fun stuff :/
[21:47] <jcastro> I hear ya brother, today has been brutal
[21:47] <hatch> rick_h_ haha, maybe it was only funny to me
[21:48] <hatch> jcastro was making a feature suggestion, and you were just like 'no'
[21:48] <hatch> ;)
[21:48] <rick_h_> hatch: oh, other topic
[21:48] <jcastro> that's ok, I am used to it
[21:48] <rick_h_> urls will get cleaned up.
[21:48] <hatch> ohh maybe I missed some comments
[21:48] <hatch> :D
[21:48] <rick_h_> hatch: has seen the url cleaning document
[21:48] <rick_h_> it really exists
[21:49] <hatch> haha that it does
[21:50] <hatch> jujugui there is a trick to clear only a single domains local storage
[21:50] <hatch> do we remember what that trick is?
[21:53] <rick_h_> hatch: go to that domain and in chrome dev tools select all and hit the delete key
[21:53] <rick_h_> in the resources section
[21:54] <hatch> oh cool that works :)
[21:54] <hatch> well now I'm totally baffled as to why CI failed
[21:54] <hatch> "it works locally"
[21:55] <rick_h_> hatch: TimeoutException: Message: 'Function isBrowserSupported not found.'
[21:56] <rick_h_> another sauce timeout issue
[21:56] <hatch> yeah that's what that says
[21:56] <hatch> but then this https://saucelabs.com/jobs/e943b4ae667c470d9a20b3aad9db5559 shows an error with onboarding
[21:56] <hatch> at 41s
[21:56] <hatch> because the onboarding had already been closed at that point
[21:56] <hatch> I'll re-run the CI but this issue looks odd ot me
[21:57] <rick_h_> hatch: yea
[22:01] <hatch> yay srcset http://blog.chromium.org/2014/02/chrome-34-responsive-images-and_9316.html
[22:03] <bac> rick_h_: better data: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7070257/plain/
[22:03] <hatch> jsonified :)
[22:04] <bac> rick_h_: with scores http://paste.ubuntu.com/7070290/
[22:04] <rick_h_> bac: right, now these are good search results
[22:04] <rick_h_> how did you get 300+?
[22:05] <bac> rick_h_: dunno
[22:05] <rick_h_> bac: so that'll be the next quest. How to get from this to the real result set we're seeing in charmworld code. We're doing something that is getting us all the crud results
[22:05] <rick_h_> because this is reasonable
[22:06] <rick_h_> bac: now this idn't pdb'd from the source right?
[22:06] <bac> rick_h_: yeah, i haven't run against stagin
[22:06] <rick_h_> bac: this is a manual search to ES direct?
[22:06] <bac> rick_h_: now, it is dumped from staging
[22:06] <rick_h_> oh, these results aren't from staging?
[22:06] <bac> s/now/no/
[22:06]  * rick_h_ is confused
[22:06] <bac> yes, these are from staging
[22:06] <bac> the 300+ are on prod
[22:06] <rick_h_> ok, so these are from the ES server directly or pdb'd into the data in the charmworld codebase.
[22:07] <bac> they are dumped from the charmworld app
[22:07] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/search?search_text=rabbitmq-server&op=
[22:07] <rick_h_> bac: ^ is from staging doing the query for rabbitmq-server
[22:07] <bac> they are dumped from the charmworld app in the api path.  those results are the GUI path
[22:08] <bac> rick_h_: i put a json dump in the _unlimited_search call
[22:08] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/search?text=rabbitmq-server is just as huge
[22:09] <rick_h_> and  TON slower than the web ui path
[22:09] <bac> invoked using wget staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/search?text=rabbitmq-server
[22:10] <rick_h_> using wget on that url I get 5.8mb of data
[22:10] <rick_h_> ?
[22:10] <bac> rick_h_: so, perhaps that _unlimited_search path is only returning partial results and the output is getting overpopulated elsewhere
[22:10] <bac> i thought it looked like the right place to dump the data
[22:10] <rick_h_> bac: that's what I'm thinking. We're building results and getting a LOT more from somewhere
[22:11] <rick_h_> bac: that's why I had mentioned walking the api request for search and checking the path we go through is correct
[22:11] <rick_h_> I bet we're hitting something off
[22:11] <hatch> but should we really be returning that much data? we make a new fetch for it when the user clicks anyways
[22:12] <rick_h_> hatch: we shouldn't be fetching data when a user clicks. The browser has a cache for that
[22:12] <rick_h_> if it does it's a bug, the only thing we fetch are icons
[22:12] <hatch> yeah there is a spinner and everything
[22:12] <hatch> it looks intentional
[22:12] <rick_h_> hatch: if you see extra api requests then it's a bug
[22:12] <rick_h_> hatch: well it depends on the tab you're on, but the default summary tab should be right away available from the cache
[22:13] <rick_h_> hatch: bug with steps to reproduce then please.
[22:13] <hatch> ok maybe I am miss remembering
[22:13] <hatch> will check
[22:14] <rick_h_> hatch: rgr thanks
[22:15] <bac> rick_h_: we're definitely going through that path.  it is what generates the file i grabbed
[22:15] <bac> in response to the /api/3/search hit
[22:15] <hatch> rick_h_ ok yeah it's definitely making another request
[22:15] <hatch> will file a bug
[22:15] <rick_h_> hatch: cool
[22:17] <bac> rick_h_: ah, i see what it is doing.  if there is no limit specified it does two requests
[22:18] <bac> the first one only gets ten results but also has the total number of items.  it then does *another* query for the full set.  i was just dumping the first
[22:18] <rick_h_> bac: and that's related to our recent "charm/bundle" keyword support?
[22:18] <rick_h_> bac: ah ok!
[22:19] <rick_h_> bac: and ugh, but I'll be curious to see if the scores are on the rest and if we can do something like only return results with a score > .5 or 1.0
[22:23] <bac> rick_h_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7070395/
[22:25] <rick_h_> bac: so looks like < 1.0 is a good cutoff
[22:25] <bac> i'd bet the first 19 (scores > 1) all have real reference to rabbitmq-server
[22:25] <rick_h_> bac: so this sounds like we had a limit on the code before we updated for the charms/bundles keyword and taking that off got us in trouble.
[22:25] <bac> yeah, ok, i'll run with that tomorrow
[22:26] <rick_h_> bac: I wonder if we can either filter where score > 1.0 OR go back to a filter on any search that's not charms/bundles the keyword
[22:26] <rick_h_> I like the 1.0 because it's based on real criteria vs arbitrary limit that we must have had in place before
[22:26] <bac> i'd like to see the code changes for that revision.  i'm not sure the change happened there
[22:26] <rick_h_> but the hard coded number limit might be easy/quick fix
[22:26] <rick_h_> bac: yea, I know there's been a few branches in there, curious if we could find the diff for it.
[22:27] <rick_h_> bac: but think we've got the diagnosis. Thanks for working through it
[22:27] <bac> [maybe score > 1][:20]
[22:27] <bac> yeah, the misfires were annoying.
[22:27] <hatch> yay finally it merged
[22:27] <hatch> lol
[22:28] <rick_h_> hatch: yay
[22:28] <rick_h_> maybe this day will start to look up well after EOD
[22:28] <rick_h_> :)
[22:28] <hatch> haha
[22:28] <hatch> rick_h_ if you want some reading I have finally been able to update my WIP branch
[22:29] <hatch> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/172
[22:29] <hatch> the tests will fail and all that but the code qa's well
[22:29] <rick_h_> hatch: isn't going to happen for now sorry.
[22:29] <hatch> ok np
[22:29] <hatch> it's well past your EOD anyways :)
[22:29] <rick_h_> and in the morning I've got to do something to prep for vUDS which I've not had time to get a script together for
[22:29] <rick_h_> but I will look at it sometime tomorrow
[22:30] <hatch> sure - so what would you like me to work on in the mean time
[22:31] <rick_h_> hatch: grab a slack card? Object.observe or something?
[22:31] <rick_h_> hatch: or look at safari card if you think it's a 1 day thing
[22:32] <hatch> yeah the safari one should be
[22:32] <hatch> I'll pick that one - I'd rather stay away from databinding for now ;)
[22:32] <rick_h_> hatch: heh ok. Well check that out but if it's going to be 2-3 days leave it be. I don't want to sucked into a black hole over that card if we can help it
[22:32] <hatch> yep no problem
[22:33] <rick_h_> ty
[22:36] <hatch> safari is so fast
[22:36] <hatch> heh
[22:56] <hatch> holy smokes filesaver.js is hard to read
[23:23] <hatch> rick_h_ ping?
[23:48] <rick_h_> hatch: pong


[00:48] <map7> will installing DHCP through mythbuntu's control center automatically start the DHCP server straight away?
[03:13] <Coder53> Greetings can someone help me with an install issue please?
[04:03] <foxbuntu> map7, it *should*, but if it doesnt, sudo /etc/init.d/dhcpd start (iirc)
[06:14] <nemiroal> Anyone know if mythtv now works with pulseaudio in mythbuntu 9.04 release? both analog and spdif pass-thru?
[06:17] <map7> I'm trying to setup the dhcp server and keep getting a 'No subnet declaration for eth0' error can anyone help?
[06:17] <foxbuntu> nemiroal, its a mixed bag...try it out and see what happens
[06:17] <map7> here is my dhcpd.conf file http://pastie.org/471882
[06:18] <map7> and here is the exact error I get http://pastie.org/471881
[06:18] <nemiroal> foxbuntu: ok... cross my fingers.   but it sounds like you are saying some people are successful.
[06:18] <foxbuntu> map7, try this out: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/dhcp3-server
[06:19] <foxbuntu> nemiroal, yes. I have heard good and bad...so just give it a shot and see if it works for you.
[06:19] <nemiroal> foxbuntu: thx.. cheers.
[07:15] <Shadow__X> where can i get the autobuild package
[13:01] <psi> hi all little help i have just brought 2 compro s350's linux seems to have got the installed and myth backend has picked them up as analouge cards (even though there dvb-s's) and it will scan for channels but finds nothing any one able to help
[13:07] <oobe> psi you need to set them up using mythtv-setup in section 2
[13:08] <psi> i have added them but there listed as VL$
[13:08] <psi> sorry V$L
[13:08] <psi> V4L
[13:18] <psi> any one else?
[13:36] <oobe> psi, i dont know for sure but v4l is analogue
[13:36] <oobe> so you need to change it till you see it selecting your /dev/dvb device or what ever
[13:36] <psi> yeah it is
[13:37] <psi> it's dev/videoo but it still doesn twork
[13:37] <psi> i think there installed correctly
[13:37] <oobe> you will have to look in google
[15:12] <CarlFK> upes with pycon too
[15:40] <oobe> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[16:01] <rhpot1991> ?
[16:28] <Coder53> Greetings, can someone please direct me to a good Mythbuntu 8.04 for idiots firewire to STB setup tutorial?
[16:50] <rhpot1991> !firewire
[16:50] <Zinn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Firewire
[16:50] <rhpot1991> is about as good as you are gonna get
[16:53] <Coder53> Thanks
[17:40] <oobe> rhpot1991, but is that for idiots
[18:49] <rhpot1991> oobe: not really, firewire is tricky
[18:49] <rhpot1991> but you wont find much better docs
[22:46] <afief> I want to have a box sit beside my TV and play videos which I select(from my ultra portable or using a wireless mouse) is mythbuntu what I'm looking for? most of the documentation I found talks about recording


[03:26] <troy_s> vish: Greets.
[20:14] <zniavre> good evening
[20:14] <zniavre> there is a place where to find next(new) Ambiance theme ?
[20:35] <troy_s> Greets thorwil, vish, et al.
[20:35] <thorwil> hi troy_s
[20:36] <troy_s> thorwil: How goes things?
[20:38] <thorwil> troy_s: 70% turquoise. i might do logo/header for an academic site, in the sound software area soon now (modestly payed)
[20:38] <troy_s> thorwil: Wow. You just spoke in a language I completely didn't understand.
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: Re-reading... I think I got it. You are working on something for someone.  Nasty people that write.
[20:40] <troy_s> thorwil: They drive me nuts.
[20:43] <thorwil> troy_s: i feel some temptation to leave out the track art and attributes and the scrubber from that panel. but you have to know that i wanted to stay compatible with what has been presented so far
[20:44] <troy_s> thorwil: Brutal and completely disconnected suggestion.
[20:44] <troy_s> thorwil: It certainly would be yeah yeah rah rah in GNOME / Libre software audience circles.
[20:44] <troy_s> thorwil: But to a _vast_ audience, it would be a dire act of defeating-the-purpose.
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Start with the easy question... I bet you have an answer... who the hell is this thing for?
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: I'd love to hear your speculation on that quesiton.
[20:45] <troy_s> s/quesiton/question
[20:46] <thorwil> troy_s: i'm a fan of task centered design. especially for things with a very broad user base ;)
[20:46] <troy_s> thorwil: Good luck on that.
[20:47] <troy_s> thorwil: Here's a better way of asking it - who would you want to say "Wow... that is absolutely fantastic' or "ZOMGISAWESOME'?
[20:47] <troy_s> thorwil: Your language simply skirts around the issue.
[20:48] <thorwil> troy_s: i'm all for defining the audience where applicable. but you have to realize that this becomes a huge problem if you deal with something like an operating system environment
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: The very act of putting a music controller in a panel applet is making a bunch of assumptions about what tasks are valuable. So why should we skirt around it any more?
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Does it?
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Why is music going into the task panel?
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: It is no problem at all.
[20:49] <troy_s> thorwil: People are just hard pressed as hell to spot the obvious judgement calls and obvious trajectories.
[20:50] <thorwil> troy_s: there are no easy answers here, with very real 16 year old kids, 22 year old enthusiastic students, 35 year old seasoned hackers and 60 year old moms, among million variations
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: Bingo. So grow some hubris and pick one.  Last time I checked Ubuntu isn't exactly setting the bar for emotional experiences.
[20:52] <troy_s> thorwil: It's weak as piss. Time will bear that out.
[20:52] <troy_s> Oops. Omit that slightly offensive word. Apologies.
[20:53] <thorwil> troy_s: after that kyudo thing, i find i simply don't have the energy for the big picture at once. so it's either details now and then, or nothing
[20:54] <thorwil> troy_s: and at least once a weak i wonder if i shouldn't leave this entire area behind
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Been there done that. Did.
[20:54] <troy_s> lol
[20:56] <thorwil> troy_s: still your words jump over the fence. one could criticize that you are like a ghost
[20:56] <troy_s> thorwil: I don't intend them to do anything but be read by the folks that know me. That's about it.
[20:57] <troy_s> thorwil: By and large, judging from the vast number of 'supporters', no one wants to talk about exclusion.
[20:57] <troy_s> thorwil: So be it. We won't.
[20:58] <troy_s> thorwil: "Broad" begs the question... why?
[21:01] <thorwil> because there's a large set of shared needs and a modern operating system environment is a pretty general thing?
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: I mean... It is tough. How do you stand up and say "Something is amiss here?"  How do you deliver a gush of emotion? If it were only easy.
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: Are they?
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: Can't you see a glaring trend?
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: It isn't what the iPad does that is important, it is likely more important to examine what it _doesn't_ do.
[21:02] <troy_s> thorwil: It's that nebulous thing of design granularity as technology evolves. Is Photoshop better? (What does that mean?) Why does Aperture or Lightroom do that Photoshop can't?
[21:03] <troy_s> thorwil: Or is their value actually in what they _can't_ do. Reminds me of that bit of Tao Te Ching ... something about the value of a boat being in the fact that the hull is empty.
[21:04] <troy_s> thorwil: Interesting stuff, none the less.
[21:05] <thorwil> troy_s: the purpose of the sound menu can only be relatively quick access to controls relating to what you currently hear, without hunting down a specific player window
[21:05] <troy_s> thorwil: And in that you made a whole pile of assumptions didn't you? Why not line them up? List them?
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: Those are the constraints we are dealing with. I mean gosh... look at the list of comments over at sabdfl's blog.
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: See a diversity of opinion?
[21:06] <thorwil> troy_s: i didn't read them. i wasn't happy the last few times after reading some in similar cases
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: I'm not disagreeing with you. Just trying to say that as soon as you and I step out of here and try to say something bigger, there is a big smattering.
[21:07] <troy_s> thorwil: There was one suggestion we remove artwork. Valid?  Then another to make artwork larger. Valid?  Impossible.
[21:07] <troy_s> thorwil: How can you reconcile the _valid_ design suggestion to remove artwork _and_ make it bigger?
[21:08] <troy_s> thorwil: _That_ is the core of this issue. I sure hope people are starting to see it.
[21:09] <troy_s> thorwil: I believe they are. I actually have people suggesting that the topic is valid now where before I was just labelled a raving lunatic. It isn't exactly like it is _my_ idea. LOL. This is pretty common stuff that's been floating around design, art, etc for at least a couple of centuriers.
[21:09] <troy_s> centuries
[21:09] <troy_s> even
[21:12] <troy_s> thorwil: And don't give up. Please.
[21:12] <thorwil> troy_s: tackling this from the question of how to evaluate design decisions seems more convincing to me than starting with your old call for defining the audience (no matter that you will soon go there, then)
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: There is a pretty simple Free Software analogy I believe. Math.
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: Math is great. It is all plus minus and right and wrong.
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: But how do you reconcile the old woman on a train throwing a ball?
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: How fast is the ball travelling?
[21:14] <troy_s> thorwil: That's where we STOP in Free Software art and design currently. We fracture off talking about how right we are for the ball travelling at x speed or y speed.
[21:14] <troy_s> thorwil: All entirely correct.
[21:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Label it as bikeshedding. But somehow I get a feeling that we are actually _wasting_ a lot of valuable discourse simply because we are operating on different metrics / perspectives.
[21:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Do you know what I mean?
[21:15] <thorwil> troy_s: no, as benchmarks should counter bikeshedding
[21:15] <troy_s> thorwil: Really?
[21:15] <thorwil> sadly, i have to run now, cya!
[21:15] <troy_s> thorwil: Night.


[18:20] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: with regard to your -controls bug report. Which version of -controls were you using? Is that the one that came with 18.10? or the one from the PPA (that fixes that problem)?
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> The one in the PPA, but I haven't tested it recently. I'll let you know. Saw your respnse to the bug report.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> The bug report did not specify the version as anything besides 18.10
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, sorry. I can fix that too, but I'm on the wrong OS at the moment. A few irons in a couple fires right now.
[18:22] <OvenWerks> actually no the bug fix for the gov was older...
[18:23] <OvenWerks> The PPA was to fix double backends
[18:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: that part of things really is a mess. There is still init.d stuff in there as well as systemd stuff
[18:36] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it works on my system for some reason... probably because intel...
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> What is it executing on the backend?
[18:37] <OvenWerks> Huh! thats the problem. There are about 4 things going on two of which are missing
[18:38] <OvenWerks> we used to have a ubuntustudio script in init.d and it calls ondemand in the same directory which also no longer exists.
[18:39] <Eickmeyer> Should probably be a systemd call now.
[18:39] <OvenWerks> yes I have removed the systemd ondemand call and replaced it with ubuntustudio from systemd
[18:40] <OvenWerks> so that part works... but the part that sets things up from the GUI still uses the initd stuff.
[18:40] <OvenWerks> (or sets the initd stuff)
[18:41] <Eickmeyer> Ah, that would explain it, seeing as how that's depricated.
[18:41] <OvenWerks> The GUI sets it correctly, but does not save the setting correctly
[18:43] <OvenWerks> The turbo setting uses /etc/default/ubuntustudio we should put governor in there too.
[18:44] <OvenWerks> In fact we should probably remove cpufrequitil from being a depends all together
[18:44] <OvenWerks> OK, I will work on that
[18:45] <Eickmeyer> *thumbs up*
[18:46] <OvenWerks> Right now the systemd thing calls cpufrequtils to set things Instead it should just directly set things
[18:48] <OvenWerks> The whole thing was bassed in initd
[18:48] <OvenWerks> it needs to migrate to fully systemd
[18:49] <Eickmeyer> That makes sense. Probably built for initd and then didn't get any love for a couple years until you did your magic.