 @Sick_Rimmit "Here is a link to a portfolio of responsive templates for the Hugo static site generator"
 I see no link?
 Doh!
 I'll resend, I am a banana
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/uihT05iU/file_33223.mp4


  Anyone else seen that?
[08:40] <oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
[08:41] <didrocks> I need to upgrade to it first, still on artful to quietly hack the Shell :p (but planned to upgrade just after FOSDEM)
[08:42] <willcooke> I wonder if duflu  has noticed, likely if anyone did he did :)
[08:42] <oSoMoN> same here, haven't upgraded yet, although I was planning on doing so this week
[08:43] <duflu> willcooke, if it's not the default theme then I haven't looked in a very long time
[08:51] <willcooke> :)
[08:52] <duflu> willcooke, where's the report?
[08:56] <willcooke> duflu, in my email from sabdfl :)  I'll open a bug
[08:56] <willcooke> duflu, any ideas which project I should open it against?  The font itself?
[08:56] <willcooke> GNOME Shell?
[08:56] <duflu> willcooke, depends /how/ it looks wrong
[08:56] <willcooke> duflu, ack. I'll fire up a VM and take a look
[08:56]  * willcooke also hasn't upgraded to B
[08:56] <willcooke> I've got it in a VM though
[08:57] <duflu> It's what all the cool people are doing
[08:59] <duflu> "libinput-test-suite-runner must be run as root"
[08:59]  * duflu runs it as root
[08:59]  * duflu sees machine turn off
[08:59] <willcooke> heh
[09:02] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:02] <willcooke> woah, keyboard is messed up in my VM all of a sudden
[09:02] <willcooke> hey seb128
[09:02] <didrocks> salut seb128, bien rentré ?
[09:02] <willcooke> (oh, maybe I had a key stuck down)
[09:02] <seb128> hey willcooke didrocks
[09:02] <seb128> didrocks, oui, merci
[09:02] <Laney> yooooooooooo
[09:02] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:03] <didrocks> hey Laney
[09:04] <duflu> sup Laney
[09:05] <Laney> hey seb128 didrocks duflu
[09:05] <seb128> hey duflu
[09:05] <Laney> good weekends???
[09:05] <Laney> seb128: good travel back?
[09:05] <oSoMoN> morning seb128, Laney
[09:05] <seb128> lut oSoMoN
[09:06] <seb128> Laney, yeah, much better than on the way there :) I managed to sleep for a good part of the flight and to watch one movie
[09:06] <didrocks> rainy week-end, but good
[09:06] <didrocks> you?
[09:09] <seb128> not rainy here, but cold!
[09:10] <seb128> didn't do much, time to get back/unpack/etc it was already 3pm on saturday
[09:10] <seb128> we walked a bit around yesterday and played some games later on, that's about it
[09:12] <Laney> nothing stressful, good!
[09:12] <Laney> we went to the indoor snowsports place not too far away
[09:12] <Laney> had a snowboarding lesson
[09:12]  * Laney fell over about 1000 times
[09:12] <Laney> hey oSoMoN!
[09:14] <oSoMoN> hey Laney
[09:25] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[09:25] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg
[09:28] <duflu> Morning flexiondotorg
[09:28] <duflu> tjaalton, I got impatient :) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1696929/comments/24
[09:40] <tjaalton> duflu: heh, very well
[09:41] <frechdachs69> Q: is someone here who has successfully automated 16.04 desktop installation using preseed?
[09:46] <willcooke> duflu, I expect its this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+bug/1512111
[10:01] <willcooke> Laney, any ideas what the bug number was for the previous time we fixed that? ^
[10:05] <Laney> do you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-font-family-sources/+bug/1048600 ?
[10:05] <willcooke> ahhhh
[10:07] <Laney> The font itself hasn't changed since xenial
[10:07] <Laney> so if there's a problem it's probably in the stack somewhere
[10:07] <willcooke> ack, thanks Laney
[10:10] <Laney> I can't tell a difference in that that correct / wrong file (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/344539285/test.html) :(
[10:10] <Laney> https://imgur.com/a/HO2Zy
[10:11] <willcooke> odd
[10:11] <willcooke> This is what I see on A
[10:11] <willcooke> https://imgur.com/a/27Y0X
[10:12] <willcooke> Laney, Are you using Firefox?
[10:12] <Laney> yeh
[10:13] <willcooke> ah ah
[10:13] <willcooke> yeah, looks fine in Firefox, wrong in Cr.*
[10:13] <Laney> the bug said it was wrong everywhere fonts are rendered
[10:16] <Laney> https://imgur.com/a/yBIly
[10:18] <willcooke> So Cr. specific then?
[10:18] <willcooke> I can make stuff light in Libre Office ok
[10:18] <Laney> that's the only place that I can see it being wrong
[10:18] <Laney> epiphany looks ok too
[10:18] <Laney> maybe could try an older version of chromium or something
[10:19] <duflu> willcooke, bug updated
[10:21] <oSoMoN> willcooke, so the font is rendered incorrectly in chromium only?
[10:21] <willcooke> oSoMoN, starting to look that way
[10:21] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[10:21] <duflu> AFAIK the bug is invalid
[10:21] <duflu> AFAICT
[10:22] <Laney> yeah I'm not sure local('Ubuntu Light') is a thing
[10:22] <Laney> firefox doesn't actually render it 'lighter' AFAICS
[10:22] <duflu> Yeah "Ubuntu Light" doesn't exist. You want "Ubuntu" and then select Style=Light, which CSS can't do
[10:26] <duflu> Exit stage left
[11:09] <willcooke> woo, first proper lock up in Artful
[11:10] <willcooke> Jan 22 11:07:11 farnsworth kernel: [10943.367760] gnome-shell[1929]: segfault at 80 ip 00007f781fed83dc sp 00007ffe6f613e88 error 4 in libmutter-cogl-1.so[7f781fe97000+a5000]
[11:10] <willcooke> ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
[11:10] <willcooke> ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
[11:10] <willcooke> sorry, pasted too much
[11:12] <Trevinho> willcooke: mhmh, interesting... any core file?
[11:13] <willcooke> Trevinho, I've got a .crash - you want that somewhere?
[11:13] <Trevinho> willcooke: yeah please
[11:13] <Trevinho> (snap install transfer, transfer /var/crash/fooo.crash) :)
[11:16] <willcooke> Trevinho, transfer not working, how about worm hole?
[11:16] <willcooke> oh wiaty
[11:16] <willcooke> it's a problem reading the file
[11:17] <willcooke> because its a crash file I assume
[11:17] <willcooke> Trevinho, k, fixed
[11:18] <willcooke> Trevinho, done
[11:26] <andyrock> hey all
[11:28] <czajkowski> andyrock: morning
[11:28] <seb128> hey andyrock! how are you? had a good w.e?
[11:28] <seb128> hey czajkowski
[11:28] <andyrock> hey seb128
[11:28] <andyrock> good enough
[11:28] <andyrock> what about you?
[11:30] <seb128> I'm good thanks :)
[11:36] <Trevinho> seb128: we did some cooking challenge, Pasta e fagioli (his work) vs Lampredotto (my "baby" ) :-D
[11:37] <Trevinho> (again we're in the same city, Torino)
[11:37] <seb128> who won?
[11:39] <andyrock> seb128: do you need to ask to know that? :D
[11:39] <seb128> andyrock, congrats! :)
[11:40] <seb128> not surprising, Trevinho doesn't even know Carbonara has cream
[11:40] <seb128> :)
[11:40] <Trevinho> :_(
[11:40] <Trevinho> the belly won for sure!
[11:44] <Laney> let's hire a kitchen at the next sprint
[11:45]  * Laney wants to watch this magic in person
[11:45] <Laney> hey Trevinho e andyrock
[11:45] <Trevinho> hi Laney
[11:45] <Trevinho> I was actually thinking the same... :-D
[11:46] <Laney> :D
[11:46] <Laney> I got a pasta maker for christmas
[11:46] <Laney> need teaching by an expert :-)
[11:47] <Laney> end up making a mess everywhere with the super long pasta on the smaller settings
[12:02] <Trevinho> Laney: oh, I got one too... The philips one or a manual one?
[12:02] <czajkowski> I'm getting hungry now thinking of spaghatti carbonara
[12:03] <Laney> Trevinho: one of those normal manual ones
[12:03] <Trevinho> spaghetti *alla* carbonara... :)
[12:03] <Trevinho> Laney: ahhh.. Ok, so for egg-based pasta recipes I guess
[12:04] <Laney> yeh
[12:05] <Laney> tasty tasty egg
[12:05] <czajkowski> Trevinho: :)
[12:06] <Trevinho> Laney: cool... You can also make Ravioli or Lasagne with that... The classic recipe here is just 1egg every 100grams of flour, but it can vary if more people are coming might add an extra egg every 400, 500g
[12:07] <Trevinho> And speaking of pasta, it's time for that here... see you :)
[12:09] <seb128> Trevinho, enjoy!
[12:13] <willcooke> andyrock, do you have a link to your work on disks hiding loop devices?  I want to mention it in the newsletter.
[12:14] <andyrock> https://github.com/storaged-project/udisks/pull/460
[12:14] <andyrock> I'm trying to understand right now why there is this failing test that looks unreleated but it's blocking the work
[12:15] <willcooke> thanks andyrock
[12:15] <andyrock> they said they're going to do that but it has been 12 days already
[12:16] <willcooke> ack
[12:22] <jbicha> good morning
[12:24] <seb128> hey jbicha, how are you?
[12:24] <jbicha> good
[12:24] <jbicha> could you subscribe the bugs team to dconf (being renamed from d-conf) and orca (in bionic NEW, renaming from gnome-orca)?
[12:24] <seb128> andyrock, did you try to ping them?
[12:24] <andyrock> nope, I'll do if I'm not able to reproduce the problem locally slowing down the system
[12:27] <seb128> jbicha, done
[12:28] <jbicha> seb128: thanks, do you think we should reassign all the d-conf bugs to dconf?
[12:28] <andyrock> why in ubuntu the file /etc/os-release  does not have a CPE_NAME entry?
[12:29] <jbicha> dconf already has a dozen bugs that were initially misfiled there since the d-conf name wasn't intuitive
[12:29] <seb128> jbicha, I wouldn't bother, but maybe it you triage/look which ones are still current
[12:29] <jbicha> ok
[12:29] <seb128> jbicha, also the old name is what needs to be used still for < bionic issues
[12:30] <jbicha> yes, there needs to be a d-conf task if anyone wants to do an SRU there
[12:31] <jbicha> seb128: could you accept orca from the bionic new queue? (it was uploaded in December)
[12:31] <seb128> jbicha, I can add to my review queue yes
[12:32] <seb128> is that blocking other work?
[12:32] <jbicha> no, it just would be nice to finish up the rename
[12:33] <seb128> k
[12:38] <Laney> bah, ctrl-enter posts on discourse
[12:38]  * Laney thought it might insert a new bullet
[12:50] <seb128> Laney, unsure what you consider "making any perfect-enemy-of-good type of mistake?" in the text you quoted, my point was basically that any workflow/infra change at this point of the cycle would be a distraction by its nature
[12:50] <Laney> hi seb128
[12:51] <seb128> there is no quality/solution being ready aspect in that comment
[12:51] <Laney> nothing in your comment, don't worry
[12:51] <seb128> hey Laney :)
[12:51] <Laney> I can forsee a situation where we don't switch away from bzr though until the new thing is super great
[12:52] <seb128> which is already the case today from what has been said, so all good :)
[12:53] <Laney> not sure if trolling
[12:53] <seb128> I think it's more that the people who are familiar with the solution and its advantage haven't really done any effort to onboard others/the team
[12:53] <seb128> out of telling them how great it is and how much they miss out by not having it
[12:53] <Laney> ok, I thought that we were being asked to list advantages
[12:54] <Laney> that's what I got from your message anyway
[12:54] <Laney> please tell me why this is good
[12:54] <seb128> well, it's good to tell us why it's so great
[12:54] <Laney> so I tried to do that...
[12:54] <seb128> no, I think it's good that we know about the pro/advantages
[12:54] <seb128> I think that's part of the issues, those who are familiar with the workflow assume that others are as well or will see the value by themselve
[12:55] <seb128> which might be true for some, but I think there is also value by summarizing what we find good and motivates the choices, for those less involved in the tools choices
[12:55] <seb128> or who don't find things to be that obvious
[12:55] <seb128> so thanks for doing that summary :)
[12:57] <jbicha> seb128 or anyone: feel free to do a Debian update and we can help you with Salsa
[12:57] <jbicha> gnome-calendar and gnome-photos have new 3.26 versions that need packaging
[12:59] <seb128> jbicha, that feels backward
[12:59] <seb128> I'm not asking for any change, if you want me to switch you should be one doing the job of convincing and documenting why
[12:59] <jbicha> take a look at https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome/Git for more information about how to do the update
[13:00] <seb128> I'm not interested, Ive enough to do
[13:00] <seb128> but thanks
[13:00] <Laney> :/
[13:00] <seb128> again, if you expect people to switch you need to be the one doing the convincing
[13:00] <jbicha> you're not interested in packaging GNOME updates any more??
[13:00] <seb128> I am, but I've a perfectly working workflow for those
[13:00] <jbicha> the proper way to update gnome-photos since it's synced is with the Debian workflow
[13:01] <seb128> I'm not interested in gnoime-photos
[13:01] <seb128> we are not using it
[13:01] <jbicha> unless there was a particular need to be in a hurry (like an impending freeze or something), this upload was wrong IMO because it wasn't proposed to Debian
[13:01] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/3.26.0-1ubuntu1
[13:02] <seb128> come on
[13:02] <jbicha> (I did notice a bit later and pushed it to Debian so that it's in sync now)
[13:02] <jbicha> it's not like you don't have Debian upload rights…
[13:03] <seb128> unsure if you are trying to convince me of changing my workflow, but you are going to wrong way about it
[13:03] <seb128> you are making me want to argue back rather than agree with you there
[13:04] <seb128> anyway I agree with you than in ideal world our packages would be in sync with Debian and changes go to Debian first
[13:04] <seb128> in practice people are busy and not familiar with the team/toosl/flow involved
[13:04] <seb128> which sure we can work on fixing
[13:05] <seb128> but you are not going people over by telling them off
[13:05] <jbicha> I created a wiki page and I and others in #debian-gnome are volunteering to help you learn the workflow
[13:06] <seb128> good to know
[13:06] <seb128> let's see who in our contributors use the option
[13:07] <seb128> we can maybe see at the end of the cycle how many people went that way and learnt the new workflow/contributed back on the gnome channel rather than on launchpad
[13:07] <Laney> you think it should just be an organic thing?
[13:08] <seb128> I doubt the current onboarding approach is going to bring many people over
[13:09] <seb128> by nature most people just focus on what they are doing and don't get out of their way to learn new tools/ways until they feel the need imho
[13:09] <seb128> and I'm not sure most of us feel that need
[13:09] <seb128> that's all I'm saying
[13:10] <Laney> ok, I'll not bother spending much energy on pushing for this then
[13:10] <seb128> now we are way to transition
[13:10] <seb128> including forcing people to swallow it even if they don't want to
[13:10] <seb128> or helping them onboard
[13:10] <seb128> I'm not sure what would be the best way though
[13:13] <seb128> Laney, don't let my comment stop you, others might be interested
[13:14] <Laney> I think it'd have to be a "we are using this new workflow" now kind of thing to work properly
[13:14]  * didrocks still thinks that doing a git-upstream based workflow is the right thing to do. Unsure we should investigate ubuntu-git/debian-git before this cycle feature freeze though (I for sure won't have time for this at least)
[13:14] <Laney> IMO though - having people using different things all over the place wouldn't be optimally productive
[13:14] <Laney> I thought that we had broad agreement on switching to a git-based thing, but I was mistaken there
[13:14] <seb128> yeah
[13:14] <didrocks> but just for the sake of gbp pq, I'm in favor of this :)
[13:15] <seb128> Laney, I  don't think anyone ever did the work to try to figure out what are the needs and want or people in ubuntu-desktop
[13:15] <didrocks> then, once we are done in feature-land rush, we can properly try the different approach, evaluate pros and cons and take a decision which can be effective in the LTS+1 dev cycle
[13:16] <didrocks> I guess that comes with some examples:
[13:16] <didrocks> 1. merging from debian
[13:16] <didrocks> 2. updating to a new upstream version
[13:16] <didrocks> 3. editing an existing patch and sending it upstream
[13:16] <didrocks> 4. creating a new patch
[13:16] <didrocks> just showing examples and documented commands so that people have a feeling
[13:16] <seb128> Laney, things got discussed in Debian and people went ahead assuming it would do it for us as well, which might be true or not be ....
[13:17] <seb128> we have no data to work from
[13:17] <jbicha> seb128: are you unconvinced about a git workflow too?
[13:17] <Laney> I think I'm actually arguing for this approach rather than forcing it upon anyone
[13:17] <didrocks> (ah, and 5. how a contributor can propose a change)
[13:18] <didrocks> Laney: well, what you tell is right, the day we take a decision, everyone will have to comply, we can't have one part in bzr, the other in git, the last one in-no-vcs…
[13:18] <Laney> Right
[13:18] <Laney> But I'm not saying "we should do this"
[13:18] <seb128> jbicha, I don't know, I've no pre-made idea, I know that I find git hard to use as an user and I found full-source checkouts heavy in the past, so I would have to play with a suggested solution to see how it feels
[13:19] <didrocks> oh, correct (I think we should do it, but just not "now" ;))
[13:19] <jbicha> didrocks: I think the status quo right now is "part in bzr, part in git, part in no-vcs"
[13:19] <Laney> I don't really understand what the big misstep was - to me this was the start of a discussion
[13:20] <didrocks> jbicha: yeah, and and I agree that's not sustainable in the long term
[13:20] <seb128> Laney, I don't think there is any misstep, the only thing we are pushing back on is the "let's switch today" that jbicha suggested
[13:21] <seb128> it just feel the timing is wrong and that we lack of onboarding/preparation for that
[13:22] <seb128> +1 on what didrocks said, let's wait for at least ff of this cycle, not get distracted of the work we are focussing on
[13:22] <seb128> and we need to create content/examples and win people over by doing a proper job at showing them why they want it
[13:22] <jbicha> I haven't been doing as many merges in the past couple weeks because of it being unclear which VCS I should push the Ubuntu changes to
[13:22] <seb128> it's clear though
[13:22] <seb128> the one in debian/control
[13:23] <seb128> which atm are either bzr branches or no vcs usually
[13:23] <seb128> you can even create a branch on salsa for your use if you want, just don't make it our official vcs yet
[13:25] <jbicha> what about for a no-vcs, non-main package like gnome-builder?
[13:26] <seb128> do what you want
[13:26] <didrocks> the thing is that it may become out of sync, the "post-ff" thing is that people won't have the time to learn the new workflow at this stage of the cycle
[13:26] <seb128> worth things people who disagree just dput without commiting to the vcs you self decided on
[13:27] <seb128> which is likely what I would do if I had to land something in a package where you decided that one needs a salsa account to commit his changes
[13:27] <Laney> Take me up on my offer to do some tutorials at ++$sprint
[13:27] <Laney> if didrocks knows gbp-pq already maybe he can do one too ;-)
[13:27] <didrocks> sure!
[13:27] <jbicha> it takes a few seconds to create a Salsa account at https://signup.salsa.debian.org/
[13:28] <didrocks> and I think we just write a wiki page with some typical day-by-day use case
[13:28] <jbicha> as for permissions, you just have to ask the right person :)
[13:28] <didrocks> as (I?) think I did when we moved to debian/ only branch
[13:28] <seb128> jbicha, that's where you loose people over
[13:28] <didrocks> jbicha: learning a new workflow isn't a few seconds
[13:28] <didrocks> let's be honest on that :)
[13:28] <seb128> I would have no idea who would be the "right person"
[13:29] <seb128> and contributors shouldn't have to figure that out
[13:29] <jbicha> the "right person" is log in to Salsa, visit the repo or the group and click Request Access
[13:29] <seb128> Laney, but yeah, let's have some team sessions/walkthrough and gather feedback in budapest
[13:30] <jbicha> or you can ping someone in IRC if you prefer
[13:47] <willcooke> didrocks, do you have a link to the upstream PR for #1716432?
[13:47] <willcooke> (window titles not centered)
[13:47] <didrocks> willcooke: sure, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792354
[13:48] <willcooke> didrocks, merci!  Also, "new sound options in settings" is that > 100% volume?
[13:48] <didrocks> willcooke: Allan seems to have some seconds thoughts on it if you read the threads and may be willing to accept, didn't hear back though despite my last comment
[13:50] <willcooke> ack
[13:50] <willcooke> lets see
[13:51] <willcooke> didrocks, "sound options in settings" is > 100%?
[13:51] <willcooke> oh
[13:51] <willcooke> wait
[13:51] <willcooke> maybe we're talking cross purposes
[13:51] <didrocks> sounds like it
[13:51] <willcooke> was your comment "Allan seems to have some second thoughts" re: sound or centering windows?
[13:51] <didrocks> yo umention window titles not centered
[13:52] <didrocks> ah, on centering windows
[13:52] <willcooke> kk
[13:52] <didrocks> the first answer was "no"
[13:52] <didrocks> then, seeing a screen capture, he finds it weird indeed
[13:52] <willcooke> got it
[14:32] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, no replies to your g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri topic :/
[14:33] <oSoMoN> nope indeed, I guess no one has hit the same issue yet
[14:34] <kenvandine> i'm sure firefox isn't the only consumer of that api, so they will eventually
[14:38] <seb128> oSoMoN, what topic?
[14:40] <oSoMoN> seb128, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/opening-a-local-file-with-its-default-application/3493
[14:40] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
[14:40] <kenvandine> hey seb128!
[14:40] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[14:42] <seb128> brb, changing location
[14:44] <Laney> oSoMoN: does the OpenFile/OpenURI portal help you there? (once those work)
[14:46] <GunnarHj> Hi jbicha, can you possibly help to get ibus-libpinyin updated (and with that possible to be MIR'ed).
[14:46] <GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/01/16/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t13:47
[14:47] <jbicha> happyaron: would you like to help with the ibus-libpinyin update?
[14:48] <oSoMoN> Laney, I guess that depends on whether g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri will be rewritten to use those?
[14:48] <oSoMoN> btw I'm not seeing any doc for OpenFile here: https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/tree/master/data
[14:49] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, I can help. Please remind me if it looks like I might have forgotten :)
[14:51] <jbicha> didrocks: I replied to LP: #1713171 , not sure if you're subscribed there
[14:52] <oSoMoN> Laney, https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/blob/master/README.md says that « the OpenFile portal is working well as a backend for the GtkFileChooserNative API », so it doesn't look like what I'm after
[14:52] <Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/gio/gappinfo.c#n740
[14:53] <GunnarHj> jbicha: In bug #1735362, comment #16 and #17, I explained what I think should be done. Two syncs and one upload with a (temporary) Ubuntu delta.
[14:55] <Laney> well line 759 specifically
[14:55] <Laney> :-)
[14:55] <didrocks> jbicha: oh, great that changed! I downloaded it on artful without checking the update, thanks! looking
[14:56] <oSoMoN> Laney, oh wow, I forgot that more often than not the code is the doc :)
[14:56]  * didrocks reviews directly https://launchpadlibrarian.net/348923851/gnome-todo_3.26.1-0ubuntu4_3.26.2-2.diff.gz thus
[14:56] <oSoMoN> all settled then, only have to wait for portals
[14:57] <Laney> poor jamesh
[14:58] <didrocks> jbicha: +  * Bump Breaks/Replaces for package split so that Ubuntu can sync now
[14:58] <didrocks> but I don't see any "Replaces"
[14:58] <didrocks> only Breaks:
[14:58] <didrocks> which I think wouldn't work well on upgrade
[14:58] <didrocks> (as you splitted the package)
[15:00] <jbicha> ok, I'll add the Replaces to Debian too
[15:04] <didrocks> jbicha: added some more comments as well
[16:16] <jbicha> jackpot51: hi, I'm updating gnote in Debian. We should add 'pop' here too right? https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnote/commit/?id=74304ee
[18:48] <willcooke> night all
[20:08] <s10gopal> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104737 please help me
[20:11] <s10gopal> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104737 please help me
[20:26] <jackpot51> jbicha: Yes, `pop` should be added there as well
[20:26] <jackpot51> Thanks very much!
[20:38] <jbicha> jackpot51: GNOME bug 792796 It will probably get into Ubuntu whenever we get gnote 3.28
[21:56] <jackpot51> Great!


[01:40] <NBrepresent> hey... can anyone give me pointers on setting up a fresh install for dial-up internet connection?
[01:59] <cheeseboy> anyone ever setup unrelircd?
[02:46] <Rynux91> hey, I need some help
[02:47] <Rynux91> every now and then, when I use firefox, my desktop will go blank...just the cursor and the background...
[02:47] <Rynux91> and all my windows will simply disappear..
[02:48] <Rynux91> I've left it a couple times hoping it'd fix itself...and when I come back, my desktop is completely f'ed up...
[02:49] <Rynux91> the panels are usually missing everything on them...
[02:49] <Rynux91> ...the icons are gone
[02:49] <Rynux91> and any programs I was running are closed...
[02:49] <Rynux91> I'm using 6.10. Anyone have any clue what's going on?
[03:57] <GregoryPew> I have a fresh install of Xubuntu and two of my drives are showing up on my desktop.  How can get rid of them?
[03:57] <GregoryPew> I really don't need anything but the trash icon
[03:59] <GregoryPew> anybody?
[04:00] <GregoryPew> I think I'm alone now
[04:01] <GregoryPew> There dosnet seem to be anyone hanging ar-oun-ound
[05:04] <graelb> hi there
[05:04] <graelb> my TTY's don't work... Nvidia video card, on a laptop, running the newest nvidia drivers installed with the restricted driver manager...
[05:06] <graelb> nothing huh?
[05:07] <maxamillion> graelb: define "don't work"
[05:08] <graelb> maxamillion: I'll hit ctrl+alt+F1 and the screen goes black for a second, then cycles through a couple of colors... but definately doesn't display the terminal
[05:08] <graelb> I mean...F7 will get me back to X, but i can't really use the others...
[05:08] <graelb> commands still work though
[05:08] <maxamillion> graelb: X works but it won't drop to a tty!?
[05:09] <graelb> if i log in on tty1, and use a command like... shutdown for example, it'll do it, but i'm doing it blind
[05:10] <graelb> Here's the almost-exact case
[05:10] <graelb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/129910
[05:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129910 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "Blank ttys when using vesafb (vga=xxx)" [Unknown,Fix released]
[05:11] <graelb> but it just talks about it going black... my screen cycles colors, but still the same effect
[05:14] <graelb> maxamillion: iirc, if i reload the older nvidia drivers, not the new ones that'll allow compiz, the tty's work fine, but no 3d stuffs
[05:15] <maxamillion> graelb: huh ... that's a bit messed up
[05:15] <maxamillion> graelb: sorry i am of no help ... i've never heard of such a thing
[05:15] <graelb> maxamillion: hehe, no worries =) I was just curious if anyone had
[05:16] <graelb> maxamillion: The new build is codenamed hardy, do you know when the scheduled release is?
[05:16] <maxamillion> graelb: i would imagine somewhere mid april
[05:17] <maxamillion> graelb: but an exact date i don't have
[05:17] <graelb> maxamillion: *nods* sure, sure =)
[05:18] <graelb> maxamillion: well thank you for listenin' anyway =)
[05:24] <maxamillion> graelb: anytime
[10:52] <Chobaca> has anyone here tried to install xubuntu on a ibook 800 MHz?
[10:53] <Chobaca> or does anyone know of an irc channel for xubuntu on mac?
[11:03] <ablomen> Chobaca, maybe #xubuntu-ppc?
[11:04] <Chobaca> I'm on it
[11:05] <Chobaca> nooo i'm the onlyone there wich means I started the room right
[11:11] <TheSheep> Chobaca: try looking at the forums
[11:12] <Chobaca> yeah
[11:13] <Chobaca> but the search thingie at ubuntu forums is shit.
[11:14] <Chobaca> found this though :https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[11:14] <Chobaca> there is an ubuntu-powerpc
[11:15] <Chobaca> I'll join that channel
[11:30] <totalwormage> good luck, it sounds sweet :D
[14:46] <Chobaca> sooo.... anyone here got any experience installing xubuntu on a ppc?
[15:54] <lovemedo> hello, im making a philosophy thesis on Linux and its relation to Habermas' ideas on communicative action and the public sphere
[15:54] <lovemedo> need your thoughts
[15:57] <maxamillion> lovemedo: not familiar with Habermas .... you have a link on a synopsis on his theory?
[15:57] <maxamillion> link to a*
[15:57] <lovemedo> hold on
[15:58] <lovemedo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Habermas
[15:58] <lovemedo> check out his theories on public sphere and communicative action
[15:58] <lovemedo> i want to prove a point that the community behind Linux makes it far more superior to profit-driven software companies
[15:59] <lovemedo> and far more humane
[15:59] <lovemedo> basically i want to legitimize Linux's place as a philosophical and sociological phenomenon as much as it is a feat of technological achievement
[15:59] <lovemedo> i wonder if that could work
[16:01] <TheSheep> lovemedo: you want to cite us in your thesis? ;)
[16:01] <TheSheep> lovemedo: I guess you'd rather need to analyze some mailing lists and repositories to see the actual behavior
[16:01] <lovemedo> of course
[16:02] <maxamillion> lovemedo: it would work perfectly, linux is a shining star in the realm of "real world proof that open source 'works'" ... open source software is based entirely on a community based collaboration development model
[16:02] <lovemedo> i have to actually
[16:02] <lovemedo> cool beans!
[16:03] <maxamillion> the public sphere concept can be easily mapped to the culture that engulfs all that is the open source community
[16:06] <lovemedo> thanks, thats what i needed to hear
[16:06] <lovemedo> it'd be really nice to have as an opening quote the first message torvalds sent with regards to Linux
[16:07] <lovemedo> the speech act that started it all
[16:07] <maxamillion> lovemedo: have you found the email?
[16:07] <maxamillion> i think i have a link to it around here somewhere
[16:07] <lovemedo> nope, not yet
[16:07] <lovemedo> i think i did see it before in the online book the bazaar and the cathedral
[16:10] <maxamillion> lovemedo: lemme get you a link ... just a sec
[16:10] <maxamillion> lovemedo: http://www.linux.org/people/linus_post.html
[16:10] <lovemedo> thanks
[16:10] <maxamillion> np
[16:18] <TheSheep> lovemedo: looks a lot like the original Wiki community
[16:20] <lovemedo> i just decided maybe its time to give Linux props in the academe
[16:21] <lovemedo> i believe people in the field of social science would consider the GNU/Linux community a treasure trove of new models and ideas that could be applied to other realms of human interest
[16:22] <maxamillion> lovemedo: i completely agree, as well as the wiki culture being a large addition and integral part
[16:37] <roland_> hello everyone
[16:37] <roland_> could anyone help out! i accidently deleted my panel
[16:38] <TheSheep> roland_: alt+f2 and type 'xfce4-panel'
[16:39] <march_afk> roland_: press ALT+F2 enter:  xcfe4-panel &
[16:39] <roland_> ok lemme try
[16:39] <roland_> command not found
[16:39] <roland_> bash: xfce-pane: command not found
[16:40] <march_afk> + l
[16:40] <TheSheep> roland_: xfce4-panel
[16:40] <TheSheep> roland_: and don't do it in terminal, do it via alt+f2
[16:40] <TheSheep> roland_: otherwise it will disappear when you close the terminal
[16:40] <roland_> TheSheep,  nothing appears when i press alt + f2
[16:40] <roland_> TheSheep,  it works in terminal but when i close it the panel disapears again
[16:41] <solar_george> logout and login again
[16:41] <roland_> ok then lemme try
[16:41] <roland_> brb
[16:41] <TheSheep> whadda ya mean nothing appears? :/
[16:42] <roland_> same thing
[16:42] <roland_> panel is still missing
[16:42] <roland_> how can i get to the alt+f2 outcome
[16:42] <roland_> im trying the alt+f2.. but nothings happening
[16:44] <TheSheep> roland_: you are running compiz or something like that?
[16:44] <soldats> just try it from terminal with "xfce4-panel &" then minimize the terminal make sure you save sessions on logout then logou and back in
[16:44] <roland_> TheSheep,  i dont know
[16:44] <TheSheep> soldats: it won't save in the session if it's run from terminal
[16:44] <roland_> TheSheep,  the thing is i did ctrl+alt+esc.. aand i was trying to kill a certain application tht was hanging
[16:44] <roland_> i did it while it was minimized
[16:45] <roland_> which wht caused the whole prob
[16:45] <roland_> so TheSheep  tell me how to get to the alt+f2 outcome..
[16:45] <TheSheep> roland_: maybe try running 'xfrun4' from the terminal
[16:45] <maxamillion> roland_: can you right click the desktop and get a menu?
[16:45] <roland_> yes i added it maxamillion
[16:46] <roland_> i didnt have it b4.. but i had to add it to b able to access the menu list
[16:46] <roland_> TheSheep,  ok ill try
[16:46] <soldats> TheSheep: hmm strange it worked for when i had xfce. oh well :)
[16:46] <maxamillion> roland_: ok, use that and just go into the system configuration utility ... there is a panel config app in there
 try adding xfce4-panel in the startup programs
[16:46] <roland_> ok lemme try
[16:47] <roland_> ok i opened the xfrun4
[16:47] <roland_> then wht
 try adding xfce4-panel in the startup programs - you can get to that from your menu on the desktop - then logout/in
[16:48] <roland_> hey it worked
[16:48] <roland_> solar_george,  thanks but TheSheep ś advice worked
[16:48] <TheSheep> solar_george: that'd break the logout button
[16:49] <TheSheep> solar_george: it would just close the panel instead of logging you out
[16:49] <roland_> i went into xfrun4 and tped the panel
[16:49] <roland_> it worked :D
[16:49] <roland_> im gonna log out log in again to see if its gonna stick this time
[16:49] <roland_> brb lemme log out
[16:49] <TheSheep> roland_: check your keyboard shortcts and make sure ou hve xfrun4 somewhere in them
  Whoops - imagine trying to work out what had gone wrong if he only came back later with the prob
 I'll have to stop pretending that i know what i'm talking about
[16:53] <roland_> im back to thank you guys
[16:53] <roland_> it worked
[16:54] <roland_> thanks TheSheep  solar_george and every1 else
[17:49] <rothchild> Hi how do I get xfce to remember my router password so I don't have to re-enter it on every boot?
[17:52] <qwerkus> hello
[17:52] <qwerkus> I can t start apache2
[17:52] <qwerkus> log shows:
[17:52] <qwerkus> [Wed Feb 13 18:51:05 2008] [error] (2)No such file or directory: could not open mime types config file /etc/apache2/mime.types.
[17:52] <qwerkus> Configuration Failed
[17:54] <zoredache> how did you install apache?
[17:54] <qwerkus> apt-get install
[17:55] <qwerkus> i manually created that file
[17:55] <qwerkus> and it seems to work
[17:55] <qwerkus> besides i have no modules
[17:55] <qwerkus> no php
[17:55] <zoredache> did you try to manually change the configuration or something?
[17:55] <TheSheep> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=mime.types&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=gutsy&arch=i386
[17:55] <TheSheep> weird
[17:55] <qwerkus> do not remember
[17:55] <zoredache> the 'standard' location for the mimes.types is /etc/mime.types
[17:56] <qwerkus> perhaps a symlink ?
[17:56] <zoredache> well that is why I asked if you had changed the configuration at all.  I am looking at a clean install of apache on gutsy, and it points at /etc/mimes.types
[17:57] <zoredache> look at the /etc/apache2/apache2.conf there should be a line - TypesConfig /etc/mime.types
[17:57] <qwerkus> looking...
[17:58] <zoredache> exit
[17:58] <zoredache> ack, ww
[17:58] <qwerkus> there is no mention of mime.types in my apache2 config
[17:59] <qwerkus> where can I get a *clean*  apache2 default config ?
[17:59] <qwerkus> (for 7.10 ?)
[17:59] <zoredache> you could remove+purge apache and reinstall I guess
[18:00] <qwerkus> what is the command line ?
[18:01] <zoredache> well I would do something like:  dpkg --get-selections | grep apache
[18:01] <zoredache> then a dpkg -P for each package listed... on my system that is: dpkg -P apache2-mpm-prefork  apache2-utils apache2.2-common
[18:02] <qwerkus> + mysql and php5
[18:02] <zoredache> but you may have gotten a different apache2-mpm package
[18:03] <zoredache> you shouldn't need to get rid of mysql...  and probably not php5
[18:03] <qwerkus> ok
[18:07] <qwerkus> still no php
[18:09] <zoredache> you reinstalled?
[18:10] <qwerkus> yup
[18:10] <qwerkus> everything
[18:10] <qwerkus> and config file is still missing mime.types
[18:11] <zoredache> hrm...
[18:12] <zoredache> how about this... run this command:  ls -lR /etc/apache2/
[18:13] <zoredache> and put the output on pastebin
[18:13] <batma8> hey guys, anyone in here using eeexubuntu?
[18:13] <qwerkus> WORKS
[18:14] <qwerkus> i forced-reload a couple aof time
[18:14] <qwerkus> and now i have php
[18:14] <zoredache> o.O
[18:14] <qwerkus> but i still need the symlink to mime.types
[18:14] <zoredache> ok then... I dunno what happened, but I guess that doesn't matter
[18:15] <RandyboY> How can i set up my xubuntu to actually use my "VGA-Card Sapphire Radeon 7000 64MB PCI DVI TV-Out Retail" and not just use vesa driver?
[18:15] <fredsua> Hi, I am new to the world of Xubuntu and Linux.  I was able to install Ubuntu on my desktop machine.  The one I'm using right now.  However, I am having difficulties installing Xubuntu on my laptop.  Can anyone help me?
[18:16] <rothchild> fredsua what is the difficulty?
[18:16] <zoredache> fredsua: ask your question... if someone knows how to help you and is avialable then they will
[18:17] <fredsua> I'm runing Xubuntu alternate.  Once it begins to install it stops at 6%
[18:17] <totalwormage> RandyboY: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
[18:17] <zoredache> of course the first question is, did you verify the disk?
 Completely - the installer tends to wait there for a long time
[18:18] <fredsua> yes, the disk was verified.  I looked that up in the forums. LOL
 switch to tty4 ctrl+alt+F4 see if any thing is happening
[18:18] <qwerkus> how do i change mysql root password ?
[18:19] <zoredache> qwerkus: I don't know the syntax offhand, but the command is mysqladmin.  Check the man page, or the mysql web page for more details
[18:19] <qwerkus> ok
[18:20] <zoredache> of course if you are running a gui, you could also install the mysql gui tools, and just do everything from there
[18:20] <qwerkus> i did it
[18:20] <qwerkus> but the gui interface
[18:20] <qwerkus> requires to be authentificated
[18:21] <qwerkus> so i have to reset a least root pwd
[18:24] <fredsua> Hi I'm back
[18:24] <fredsua> the alt+shift+F4 took me to a black screen
[18:25] <fredsua> I need help installing xubuntu in my laptop
[18:26] <fredsua> Can anyone help me install xubuntu?
[18:26] <fredsua> I am very new to this
[18:27] <ere4si> where are you up to fredsua ?
[18:28] <fredsua> I am trying to install xubuntu on my laptop but it freezes at 6% during "select and install software"
[18:29] <fredsua> I using xubuntu alternate 7.10
[18:29] <ere4si> how old is notebook (laptops can explode!)
[18:30] <fredsua> is a 900Mhz Pentium 3, 10GB HD and 256RAM
[18:32] <ere4si> at the install prompt press F6 - type   noapic nolapic     then enter and have the ethernet cable unplugged
[18:33] <fredsua> I'll try it now
[18:33] <ere4si> k
[18:35] <fredsua> by the way, if I upgrade the RAM to 512, would I be able to run edubuntu?
[18:37] <zoredache> fredsua:edubuntu should run in that ammount of ram.  but cpu/disk space are also some factors in how well something will run
[18:37] <zoredache> you can always try it though
[18:38] <fredsua> I tried it before and it hung up the install.  I thought it was because I needed more RAM
[18:39] <zoredache> well the install is pretty much the same for each version if *buntu
[18:39] <zoredache> so if the alternate installer failed on xubuntu, it will probably fail on edubuntu
[18:39] <fredsua> hmmm
[18:39] <nanonyme> done a memory check?
[18:40] <nanonyme> installs actually hanging doesn't sound very good
[18:40] <nanonyme> more like data corruption or driver incompatibility
[18:40] <fredsua> I started doing it but I quit because it was taking too long
[18:40] <nanonyme> ah
[18:40] <nanonyme> that's different :)
[18:41] <fredsua> let's see if it installs xubuntu this time
[18:41] <fredsua> is there an alternate edubuntu?
[18:42] <zoredache> fredsua: of course you know that the only difference between most *buntes is the packages installed by default right?  You can add the edubuntu packages on a system you installed with xubuntu
[18:43] <zoredache> fredsua: there is probably a edubuntu alternate... if there isn't, just use the mini.iso, or the ubuntu server iso, install a cli system and then do an 'apt-get install edubuntu-desktop'
[18:43] <fredsua> cool!
[18:44] <fredsua> please excuse my ignorance.  I am a newbie from Windows.  LOL
[18:46] <fredsua> I think the Linux Ubuntu rocks over Windows.
[18:50] <fredsua> here's the moment of truth: 1% "select and install software"
[18:53] <fredsua> it did it again, it stopped at 6% while the CD-Rom keeps spinning
[18:53] <ere4si> give it a min
[18:54] <solar_george> it will just be caching the packages - if you used the netinstall you would have to wait for hours
[18:56] <deeps> fredsua: alt+f4, see the syslog output to see what's happening
[18:56] <fredsua> cool, it by passed this time!
[18:56] <fredsua> YEAH!!!!!!!
[18:57] <fredsua> Thanks a million ere4si
[19:02] <fredsua> Now, one last dumb question.  How do I get the edubuntu package in the xubuntu.  Do I do a search on Add/Remove?
[19:03] <solar_george> aptitude install edubuntu-desktop
[19:03] <deeps> sudo aptitude install edubuntu-desktop, but that'll switch you to the entire edubuntu setup instead of xubuntu
[19:04] <fredsua> and where to i type that?  what is aptitude?
[19:04] <solar_george> use synaptic and search for edubuntu-desktop
[19:04] <fredsua> thank you!
[19:04] <TheSheep> deeps: we try to recomment apt-get to users, as it's compatible with synaptic
[19:05] <deeps> k
[19:05] <TheSheep> deeps: using aptitude can give some headaches when you autoremove
[19:05] <ere4si> fredsua: good luck :)
 yeah but it can handle that its self
 of course that assumes that you only use aptitude
[19:07] <fredsua> me being a newbie to linux, the easier the better
[19:08] <solar_george> use synaptic
[19:08] <TheSheep> solar_george: the point is, new users are more comfortable with synaptic
 I just tend to type aptitude because thats what i use - i'll try not to though
[19:10] <fredsua> as soon as the laptop finishes installing xubuntu, I'll give it a try with synaptic.  Thanks to everyone who helped me!  You are all very kind.
[19:19] <lovemedo> gtg
[19:19] <lovemedo> thanks maxamillion  and TheSheep
[19:32] <slow-motion> hi
[20:08] <fredsua> what is the proper way of removing a USB thumb drive from Ubuntu once you are done using it?
[20:09] <crimsun> umount it
[20:09] <crimsun> either use the graphical environment's tool(s), or umount
[20:09] <crimsun> then just remove the device
[20:10] <fredsua> it doesn't matter if the light on the USB stays on?
[20:10] <crimsun> correct, it doesn't matter.
[20:10] <fredsua> thank you
[20:51] <slow-motion> n8
[21:37] <rdehler> i'm using compiz on xubuntu 7.10, and whenever i lock the screen my WM crashes
[21:41] <rdehler> i'm going to lock it right now
[21:59] <RandyboY> Im trying to get my "VGA-Card Sapphire Radeon 7000 64MB PCI DVI TV-Out Retail" to work in xubuntu by using this guide; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver , but comes up with an error. "Error: couldnt find RGB GLF visual"... What to do?
[21:59] <fredsua> after a successful install of xubuntu I decided to give edubuntu another try.  Nevertheless, the system froze.  If I'm running 900Mhz P3, 10G HD, and 256RAM, why can't I get edubuntu to install?
[22:00] <RandyboY> s/GLF/GLX
[23:31] <OfficerHotpants> hi everyone
[23:31] <OfficerHotpants> i'm trying to install Xubuntu 32-bit but during installation Ubiquity crashes at Step 6 of 7 and wont' seem to progress. any ideas on what the problem could be?
[23:37] <OfficerHotpants> hello?
[23:40] <zoredache> the first thing to check is to check your disk for defects... after that, you might want to try the alternate cd...  it tends to be more reliable in my opinion
[23:41] <OfficerHotpants> okay. i'll try that
[23:42] <OfficerHotpants> also, this might not be relevant. but can the login name have spaces?
[23:47] <zoredache> OfficerHotpants: no usually a login name should not have spaces
[23:47] <zoredache> for the best results pick something with letters and numbers only
[23:48] <OfficerHotpants> yeah, i just did that and ubiquity didn't crash this time >_<
[23:48] <OfficerHotpants> you'd think it would check for spaces and not crash. weird bug though


[00:01] <mup> Bug #1568175 changed: destroy-controller failed: EOF <ci> <destroy-controller> <regression> <juju-ci-tools:Fix Released by sinzui> <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568175>
[00:19] <natefinch> katco, ericsnow: rebasing and fixing conflicts btw
[01:25] <alexisb> well done this week juju devs!
[01:54] <natefinch> ericsnow: don't suppose you're around?
[02:06] <axw> katco: no I never did get around to incorporating ericsnow's doc
[02:29] <ericsnow> natefinch: need a hand?
[02:32] <redir> have a great weekend #juju-dev
[04:20] <mup> Bug #1466570 changed: Juju add-unit stuck on new lxc containers <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.20:Incomplete by cherylj> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1466570>
[06:24] <axw> cmars: thanks much for the review
[15:45] <mup> Bug #1568312 opened: Juju should fallback to juju-mongodb after first failure to find juju-mongodb3.2 <blocker> <ci> <mongodb> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568312>
[17:05] <cherylj> If there are people around, I need some review to help get master in a good state:  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/4502/       https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/5059
[17:23] <TheMue> cherylj: wonderful tests, and again - as needed - more complex than the change itself
[17:25] <TheMue> cherylj: does the test, not in this change, also contain a testing of a successful loading of a managed package?
[18:33] <cherylj> TheMue: yeah, I noticed it didn't have a test for success
[19:49] <mup> Bug #1568372 opened: Bridge script failed with "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 18: ordinal not in range(128)" <network> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568372>
[20:07] <mup> Bug #1568374 opened: github.com/juju/juju/cmd/juju/service unit tests fail if xenial is the LTS <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568374>
[20:16] <mup> Bug #1568374 changed: github.com/juju/juju/cmd/juju/service unit tests fail if xenial is the LTS <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568374>
[20:19] <mup> Bug #1568374 opened: github.com/juju/juju/cmd/juju/service unit tests fail if xenial is the LTS <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568374>
[21:34] <mup> Bug #1568390 opened: Fallback for mongo packages doesn't include wily <ci> <juju-core:Triaged by cherylj> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568390>


[02:31] <trbs> how can i remove a branch from my launchpad account ?
[02:32] <lifeless> delete it in the web ui
[02:32] <trbs> i cannot find the link for it :(
[02:33] <trbs> aaah ic ... it's the little trash can icon
[02:33] <trbs> thanks lifeless ! :)
[05:24] <RenatoSilva> I want to put my useful scripts in the web. They're kind of mini-projects: not so big, often a single file, but useful...
[05:26] <RenatoSilva> I think it would be annoying to create one project for each one, so I was think about creating a single project called "<mylogin>"  or "<mylogin>-utils" or so.
[05:26] <RenatoSilva> How about it?
[05:26] <thumper> RenatoSilva: you can just use +junk for that
[05:26] <RenatoSilva> what's +junk?
[05:27] <thumper> stuff not related to a project :)
[05:27] <RenatoSilva> I don't get you yet, I'm still reading some docs
[05:27] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Just use '+junk' in the branch URL where you'd normally put the project name.
[05:27] <thumper> eg https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/+junk/icerobots
[05:27] <wgrant> It'll create a personal branch unrelated to a project.
[05:28] <RenatoSilva> btw, what's the difference about a project and a branch?
[05:29] <RenatoSilva> thumper: so +junk is kind of meta-project to store code snippets and utilities?
[05:29] <spiv> RenatoSilva: projects can have many branches, and bugs, and translations, download files, etc.
[05:29] <thumper> RenatoSilva: kinda
[05:29] <thumper> RenatoSilva: there are no bugs or answers for +junk
[05:30] <spiv> RenatoSilva: more like "no project" than a meta-project.  It's named after http://www.samba.org/junkcode/ IIRC.
[05:30] <RenatoSilva> spiv: can't branches themselves have bugs associated, etc?
[05:30] <thumper> RenatoSilva: junk branches are just branches you want to put on LP but are not part of something larger
[05:30] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Not in the same way as projects have bugs, no.
[05:30] <spiv> RenatoSilva: branches can be linked to bugs, but they can't *have* bugs, if you see what I mean.
[05:31] <RenatoSilva> junk looks a weird name
[05:31] <wgrant> (when a branch is linked to a bug, it normally means that the bug is fixed - not present - in the branch.
[05:31] <thumper> junk is a weird name
[05:32] <thumper> chosen on purpose :)
[05:32] <wgrant> thumper: To dissuade people from using it?
[05:32] <thumper> wgrant: to make people want to have real projects for stuff they really care about
[05:32] <thumper> if a branch is just a simple script, then sure, use +junk
[05:32] <wgrant> That's the reason 'junk' was chosen for a similar purpose in my project, well before anybody who knew of LP was on the scene.
[05:33] <RenatoSilva> spiv: link/have bugs? I need to read more in the wiki to understand this...
[05:33] <thumper> RenatoSilva: a bug can be linked to a branch, which can be seen from the bug and the branch
[05:33] <thumper> bugs have tasks, some of which can be on projects
[05:34] <thumper> a bug cannot have a task for a branch
[05:34] <thumper> other tasks are on distros, or source packages
[05:35] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Have you been through the LP tour? That has a bit of discussion on how bugs work, IIRC.
[05:35] <wgrant> It is fairly confusing.
[05:36] <RenatoSilva> So let me see, branches are just actual code, and projects is a more general idea around this code.
[05:37] <wgrant> Right.
[05:37] <wgrant> A branch is the actual substance of the project.
[05:37] <wgrant> But a project can have hundreds of branches.
[05:37] <wgrant> And bugs.
[05:37] <wgrant> And blueprints.
[05:37] <wgrant> And downloads.
[05:37] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I tried to use translations a long time ago to help Ubuntu. I found that part confusing.
[05:46] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: here in Brazil we have a saying: tamanho não é documento. I think in english it's like "Good things come in small packages.", i.e., the value of a software can't be measured by how many files it consists on.
[05:46] <RenatoSilva> some of my useful stuff are just single files thanks to guys like Matz which has invented stuff like Ruby
[05:48] <thumper> RenatoSilva: LP doesn't care how big your code is, if it is useful and open source, we're happy for you to have a project for free
[05:49] <thumper> in fact I'm not sure we even discriminate on useful...
[05:49] <RenatoSilva> +junk seems that the code is , hmm, junk.
[05:49] <thumper> some code is junk
[05:50] <wgrant> Junk has a couple of different meanings, unfortunately.
[05:50] <RenatoSilva> I think +junk is not a good place, it's not even a project
[05:50] <RenatoSilva> it's kind of sand box, it seems to me
[05:50] <RenatoSilva> Would it be a better idea to create a <-my-login-name> project?
[05:50] <spiv> RenatoSilva: See the description on http://www.samba.org/junkcode/; "The reason I call this 'junkcode' is that I have no plans to properly document, package or support this code. If you find it useful then that's great ..."
[05:51] <spiv> RenatoSilva: that's the sort of thing that Launchpad's +junk is good for.  Code you want to share, but not turn into fully-fledged projects for whatever reason.
[05:52] <wgrant> And if you do eventually want to turn it into a project, you can easily do so later.
[05:53] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: it is a per-user sandbox; calling it by the usersname would lead to urls like ~USERNAME/USERNAME, and make usernames have to be distinct from projects.
[05:54] <RenatoSilva> spiv: that's not the idea of little projects consisting in one file. Just imagine you created 5 nice and useful softwares, but "unfortunately" they're just too simple. They become simple thanks to your scripting language or anything else. However you do want to share the code, document, solve bugs, etc. _But_: in a easy way, the cost of doing this being proportional to the simplicity of the "project".
[05:57] <lifeless> well, I think +junk should be permitted bugs
[05:57] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: can you get what I mean? separate code by 'junk' and 'project', there is too much blank space between them. I think there's a problem with the word "project". Your software don't need to be a prooooject to be useful and worth to share, it doesn't mean that it is a 'junk' tough. Can you get what I mean...
[05:57] <lifeless> but thats a different storey
[05:57] <RenatoSilva> I think I'll ahve to create a project named after my login name
[05:57] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Yeah, I see what you mean.
[05:58] <wgrant> In Ubuntu, we have lots of little scripts. They all end up in the ubuntu-dev-tools project, although they're mostly independent.
[05:58] <spiv> RenatoSilva: personally, I'd just make a project per thing, even if they are just single files then.
[05:58] <wgrant> But that's a bit different from your situation, since it makes sense to have ubuntu-dev-tools grouped together.
[05:58] <wgrant> whereas your grouping would be by author, which is probably not a good idea.
[05:58] <wgrant> So, I agree with spiv.
[06:01] <RenatoSilva> spiv: project sounds like a project, something you're planning to do and is doing, something big.
[06:01] <RenatoSilva> to me
[06:01] <spiv> RenatoSilva: then don't think of it as that, think of it as "free thing I need to have to have a Launchpad bug tracker for my software"
[06:01] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: what is dev-tools for? utilities for developing ubuntu?
[06:02] <spiv> Easy ;)
[06:02] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: They're useful utilities for Ubuntu developers, yes.
[06:07] <RenatoSilva> spiv: it's like having to choose between coffee and milk, when you just want coffe _with_ milk :)
[06:08] <spiv> RenatoSilva: would that be a latte or a cappuccino or a macchiato or ... ;)
[06:09] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: project in my case would mean just a meta-project, to get the infra-structure to support the utilities. Its name would work just like a bucket...
[06:09] <RenatoSilva> or a tag...
[06:11] <RenatoSilva> Github has some work on this idea... it's a versioned paste bin I can't recall the name
[06:12] <RenatoSilva> you paste code there, and it becomes kind of mini-project
[06:13] <RenatoSilva> Oh, it's here: http://gist.github.com/
[06:15] <wgrant> That is interesting.
[06:26] <RenatoSilva> when I open a bug, can I select the branch where it happens, if I know where? For example, imagine I write a patch to Ubuntu, apnd put it into a branch. Then someone download the branch to test, but find a problem. The bug report must be associated to a project, obviously the one associated with the branch. Can you get what I mean? How to report bugs and request support (answers) related to a specific branch?
[06:32] <lifeless> you can link bugs to branches
[06:33] <wgrant> But since Bug<->Branch link statuses have been removed, doesn't such a link imply the *fix* is in the branch?
[06:33] <RAOF> But that's really the other way 'round, isn't it?  IE: this branch _fixes_ this bug?
[06:34] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: I think you are thinking about the problem in a different way than launchpad presents it
[06:34] <RenatoSilva> doesn't the link feature stand that?
[06:34] <lifeless> lp treats the project as the central core that people consolidate around
[06:34] <wgrant> Bugs do have branch-specific task, but only if your branch is a series branch.
[06:35] <wgrant> I don't know what you're meant to do if you need to track bugs on an in-progress branch.
[06:35] <lifeless> and branches are short lived entities that new code is developed in
[06:35] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: likely. So what would be the right way?
[06:35] <wgrant> lifeless: In Launchpad, maybe.
[06:35] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: file a bug on the project, done
[06:35] <wgrant> lifeless: But most projects don't have an 800-line limit.
[06:35] <wgrant> And branches can go on for months.
[06:35] <lifeless> wgrant: as I said, how lp treats it.
[06:35] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: even if the problem is with a branch?
[06:36] <lifeless> wgrant: lets not confuse this discussion; we can come back to modelling terms in a sec
[06:36] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: if your branch is so long lived that its an entity of its own its really a fork isn't it?
[06:36] <lifeless> a fork, or a different flavour - what launchpad calls a 'series'
[06:37] <wgrant> A series isn't a fork.
[06:37] <wgrant> Forks generally have different ownership.
[06:37] <lifeless> wgrant: I know, thats why I said or
[06:38] <lifeless> wgrant: which in english is the xor operator.
[06:38] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: a temporary fork
[06:38] <wgrant> lifeless: I took the 'or' to be an 'in other words' - sorry.
[06:38] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: could you expand on that?
[06:39] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: it's a separate work you _want_ to merge into main code, but in the meantime your own branch has a life, bugs can happen, you should have to maintain, to document, to support while other people are testing your branch/fork
[06:40] <RenatoSilva> *you could have
[06:40] <lifeless> so lp doesn't directly model this at the moment. What I'd do is tag bugs of that nature with the name of the reason-for-that-branch
[06:40] <lifeless> remembering that many people could be working on the same featureset
[06:40] <RenatoSilva> branches are also projects themselves
[06:41] <lifeless> not in lp
[06:41] <RenatoSilva> then I come back to my question
[06:41] <lifeless> I appreciate how you're modelling it though. Its just not how lp approaches the problem.
[06:41] <RenatoSilva> to my point
[06:42] <lifeless> you're modelling branch implies project
[06:42] <RenatoSilva> you'll have to use the global infra-structure (the project) to report a bug on a specific branch
[06:42] <lifeless> but project is heavyweight
[06:42] <lifeless> it implies separate wikis developers mailing lists and all sortsof other things
[06:43] <lifeless> if you imagine that we didn't have DVCS systems and just collaborated with mailing lists and patches, you wouldn't routinely ask for a new mailing list to have a long lived development task for a project
[06:43] <lifeless> instead you'd say on the list that this issue is specific to the feature-FOO development
[06:44] <lifeless> anyway; in lp you have some choices. You could:
[06:44] <lifeless>  - create a series for the branch. File bugs on the series.
[06:44] <lifeless>  - use tags
[06:45] <lifeless>  - link the branch [though the LP machinery may do confusing things here as it assumes 'fixed in' is the relationship nowadays.
[06:45] <wgrant> Creating a series for a branch that is going to be merged into trunk is a very bad idea.
[06:45] <lifeless> I'd like to note though, that this is the first time I've seem someone ask for the ability to file bugs on a branch, over uhm, 5 years now.
[06:46] <RenatoSilva> I'm not used to series yet, but aren't they related to the project?
[06:46] <lifeless> they are
[06:46] <RenatoSilva> so project is a list of series, which are lists of branches?
[06:47] <wgrant> lifeless: I've seen quite a number of bugs in Launchpad itself about features that I didn't know existed yet, and are some time away from landing.
[06:48] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: a project is well, a project. Like 'squid'. Or 'grep'.
[06:49] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: sorry
[06:49] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: a series is a well known branch of the project. Like 'trunk'. Or '2.3'.
[06:49] <RenatoSilva> I'll read more about series later I think
[07:04] <RenatoSilva> A possible solution if you're about creating a patch and want it to "sound" like a project, would be maybe create a project???
[07:05] <RenatoSilva> Thsi way people can test your branch/fork and report bugs etc, because it is a full-featured project
[07:05] <RenatoSilva> when you work is finished, you delete the project (is it possible) and merge the branch into the main project
[07:06] <wgrant> Creating a project doesn't seem like a good solution for a temporary branch.
[07:06] <wgrant> As projects can't really be deleted.
[07:06] <RenatoSilva> :(
[07:11] <RenatoSilva> can you guys understand? Imagine you start a patch which is refused by main developers, but is yet useful for other people, so that they start to report bugs and try to collaborate and all tasks realted to projects. Then you'll tell people to use the main project page to report bugs and etc., but the main developers would not like this (supporting a refused branch).  Then it becomes popular, and then main d
[07:12] <spiv> RenatoSilva: you got cut off at "and then main d"
[07:12] <RenatoSilva>  and then main developers now find it nice and want to merge the branch into main code. Then the fork project has no sense anymore...so it would be nice if you could delete the project, because it's a temporary project.
[07:13] <spiv> RenatoSilva: but if you want to track bugs etc. in code rejected by the main developers then at that point you're maintaining a fork, so you may as well create a project for it.
[07:13] <spiv> RenatoSilva: I don't think that scenario happens very often
[07:14] <RenatoSilva> ok
[07:14] <spiv> RenatoSilva: usually because the main devs don't reject work like that outright
[07:14]  * RenatoSilva actually can't remember why he's thinking about this...
[07:14] <spiv> i.e. if it's something they might merge later if more improvements are made to make it acceptable, then generally they'll say so.
[07:15] <RenatoSilva> spiv: maybe they rejected it initially because it was porr code or so...but it impoves in the future
[07:16] <spiv> RenatoSilva: sure.  So they'll say that.  That's not a good reason to make a fork.
[07:16] <spiv> Also, managing long-lived branches with large delta against the upstream branch is a hard problem in general.
[07:17] <spiv> You're continually trying to integrate divergent work, and when bugs occur you have to work extra hard to figure out if it's just your branch or if it's due to the upstream branch, etc.
[07:17] <RenatoSilva> Anyway, about my not-so-junk repo. Is it better to put my few/single-file utilities into one single branch, or create one branch for each file?
[07:18] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok forget about it. I can't even recall the reason why I was thinking about this o.O
[07:18] <spiv> It's hard to say.  It really depends on how you want to interact with Launchpad, etc.  It's probably easiest to start with an all-in-one project for now while you get a feel for how managing projects and branches in LP works.
[07:19] <RenatoSilva> spiv: it would be nice if you could delete or close projects tough
[07:19] <spiv> Oh, you were asking about one branch vs. multiple branches.  That doesn't really matter a whole lot either way if it's just a handful of small things.
[07:19] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok (about my repo)
[07:19] <spiv> Do whatever seems easiest, it's not a big deal to change your mind later.
[07:20] <RenatoSilva> wouldn't it be weird one branch for a single file?
[07:20] <spiv> Not really.
[07:20] <RenatoSilva> oO
[07:20] <spiv> No more so than one branch for several unrelated pieces of code, certainly ;)
[07:20] <lifeless> if there isn't a common theme between the files, one branch with unrelated stuff is more weird.
[07:21] <RenatoSilva> ok
[07:30] <RenatoSilva> hum, "you don't earn karma from +junk branches. "
[07:30] <RenatoSilva> that's a good definition for +junk branches :)
[07:59] <RenatoSilva> what's the diff between name and title when registering a project?
[08:07] <lifeless> name == url
[08:08] <lifeless> or url element actually
[08:11] <wgrant> lifeless: Not any more, on the new project page.
[08:11] <lifeless> wgrant: no?
[08:11] <wgrant> lifeless: That's the only place in Launchpad where it's different (it was changed with the new guided registration stuff a couple of months ago)
[08:11] <lifeless> wgrant: I made a new project on saturday.
[08:12] <wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/projects/+new
[08:12] <wgrant> Name, URL and title are requested.
[08:13] <lifeless> heh. well then
[08:13] <lifeless> no idea why I saw what I did in the weekend
[08:13] <wgrant> That happens sometimes.
[08:14] <wgrant> I'm fairly concerned that it was rebranded URL there, but nowhere else.
[08:14] <wgrant> (no other views, nor the model...)
[08:21] <robin_> Hi, guys. What is the files in .bzr/packs/*? I found them are very large.
[08:22] <RenatoSilva> so what's the diff
[08:23] <robin_> I want to create new branch from existing branch in launchpad. Then I get the existing branch bzr branch lp:**********.
[08:23] <robin_> But there are lots of bzr files in the directory. In my new branch, can I delete these bzr files ?
[08:24] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Taking bzr as an example, its name is 'Bazaar', but its title is 'Bazaar Version Control System'. Some Launchpad components follow that convention, with the title including a few words describing what it is.
[08:24] <wgrant> robin_: Lots of bzr files?
[08:24] <wgrant> robin_: What do you mean?
[08:25] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: ah ok
[08:25] <robin_> wgrant: like .bzr/repository/packs/some.pack files.
[08:26] <wgrant> robin_: Those contain the actual bzr version control data.
[08:26] <RenatoSilva> what good name and title would be for my utilities?
[08:26] <wgrant> robin_: In general, poking inside .bzr is a Very Bad Idea.
[08:26] <RenatoSilva> could the name be just RenatoSilva?
[08:26] <wgrant> Delete those packs, and you break your history.
[08:27] <robin_> wgrant: But I found they are very large. For example, I get the branch sized 871M, but the bzr files sized 600M.
[08:28] <wgrant> robin_: They store diffs to reproduce every file in the history of the branch, so they can be very large. But you can sometimes make them a bit smaller by running 'bzr pack'
[08:30] <robin_> wgrant: OK. But if I want to create new branch from existing branch in launchpad. The bzr files of existing branch should be reserved?
[08:31] <wgrant> robin_: Yes. But you can share that data between multiple local branches using a shared repository.
[08:31] <wgrant> robin_: And if the branch is in a new enough format, pushing the new branch up to Launchpad will only push the new data (using the stacked branches feature).
[08:33] <robin_> wgrant: I do it like this: bzr branch lp:~****. I get the existing branch in a directory, say, existing-branch. And I want to push it to new branch, say, new-branch.
[08:34] <robin_> wgrant: Should I run "bzr init-repos" before I push the new branch "bzr push lp:~my-id/****"?
[08:34] <RenatoSilva> confusing: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Branch.
[08:34] <wgrant> robin_: I would create a directory where I'm going to keep the project's branches, and run 'bzr init-repo .'. Then 'bzr branch lp:someproject'. Then I can 'bzr branch someproject new-branch'.
[08:35] <wgrant> robin_: Then you hack away in new-branch, and 'bzr push lp:~user/project/branch'
[08:35] <wgrant> You've only got one copy of those huge packs locally, because of the shared repo.
[08:35] <robin_> wgrant: The help of launpad.net does not explain bzr init clearly.
[08:36] <wgrant> robin_: Probably because it's more a bzr question than a LP question.
[08:36] <wgrant> robin_: Which page are you looking at?
[08:37] <robin_> wgrant: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/
[08:38] <wgrant> robin_: There are a few bzr documentation links there. Did you look at them?
[08:39] <robin_>  wgrant: Could you give some examples? What I want to do is: 1. Get existing branch;   2. Start my branch from existing branch;   3. Working on my new branch. The most problem confused me is bzr init-repo.
[08:40] <robin_>  wgrant: Or, could you explain bzr init-repo? Thank you very much!
[08:41] <wgrant> robin_: 'bzr init-repo .' will create a shared repo in the current directory. Do you understand what a shared repo does?
[08:42] <robin_> I am sorry. no:)
[08:43] <wgrant> robin_: Since the revision history data can get very large (which is what caused you to ask in the first place), bzr needs some way to share this data between multiple local branches.
[08:44] <wgrant> Or we'd all need very big hard disks.
[08:44] <wgrant> Shared repos do this - if I create a branch in a shared repo, its revisions are in fact stored in the shared repo.
[08:44] <wgrant> So if I branch from that branch into the same shared repo, the revision data doesn't have to be copied.
[08:46] <robin_> wgrant: Got it. Should I run bzr init-repo before getting  the existing branch of after getting the existing branch?
[08:46] <wgrant> robin_: Before - otherwise when you get the existing branch, bzr won't know to put the data in the shared repo.
[08:48] <robin_> wgrant: Does the things are: I run bzr init-repo to set up the shared repo; And I download the existing branch as my new branch: bzr branch lp:~existing-branch my-new-branch; Then I can work in my-new-branch  directory?
[08:50] <wgrant> robin_: Since you are likely to want to make more than one branch, and it's useful to be able to look at the existing branch, I'd first get a copy of lp:~existing-branch in my repo.
[08:50] <wgrant> So, just 'bzr branch l:~existing-branch trunk', or something like that.
[08:51] <wgrant> Then to create your branch: 'bzr branch trunk new-branch'
[08:54] <robin_> wgrant: I got it. But what is the different between bzr init and bzr init-repo?
[08:55] <wgrant> robin_: init creates a branch. init-repo creates a repository.
[08:55] <wgrant> robin_: A repository just stores data for one or more branches.
[08:55] <wgrant> robin_: A branch is the thing that has a history of code.
[08:57] <robin_> wgrant: Should I run bzr init when creating my new branch of another branch?
[08:58] <wgrant> robin_: No. 'bzr init' starts a new branch, with empty history. 'bzr branch' basically copies a branch, so the init is not required.
[09:00] <robin_> wgrant: OK! I am clearly about it. Thank you very much!!
[09:01] <wgrant> robin_: No problem.
[09:27] <RenatoSilva> I'm trying to run this:
[09:27] <RenatoSilva> bzr push lp:~renatosilva/+junk/solenoid-moin-theme
[09:27] <RenatoSilva> command-line: line 0: Bad configuration option: ClearAllForwardings
[09:27] <RenatoSilva> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions
[09:29] <RenatoSilva> What could be wrong? Pagean is running with my key
[09:29] <RenatoSilva> Pageant
[09:37] <LarstiQ> RenatoSilva: that seems like your ssh client config is borken
[09:42] <RenatoSilva> it seems that I must unblock some process in the firewall but it is not bzr.exe
[09:42] <RenatoSilva> should be pageant, putty?
[09:46] <RenatoSilva>  I deactivated firewall and it didn't worked
[10:38] <tymofiy> hi there.
[10:39] <tymofiy> is there any way to submit translation to launchpad besides web-interface ?
[10:40] <lifeless> possibly via API's. And you can upload files too.
[10:40] <dpm> tymofiy: you can translate files locally and then upload the translated PO file to launchpad.
[10:41] <dpm> I don't think there is an API for that yet, but henninge might be able to tell you more on that
[10:43] <tymofiy> ok, thanks.
[10:44] <tymofiy> through I expected some bazaar integration
[10:44] <lifeless> there is, at the moment though I think its output only
[10:44] <wgrant> Launchpad can import translations and templates from bzr.
[10:44] <wgrant> lifeless: *input* only, in fact.
[10:44] <tymofiy> what a pity.
[10:45] <wgrant> http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/import-translations-from-bazaar-branches
[10:45] <james_w> wgrant: bear in mind that that might be output from lifeless' perspective ;-)
[10:45] <dpm> tymofiy: there is a planned feature for automatically committing translations to bzr branches as well
[10:45] <wgrant> james_w: Ah, that's true.
[10:46] <tymofiy> I have seen it, is there any plans for output? for localizers to be able to commit translations?
[10:46] <lifeless> actually, I thought lp could only write to bzr branches as I was discussing mechanics of that with abentley a few weeks ago
[10:47] <wgrant> lifeless: Ah, so sounds like it's coming soon, then. I wasn't aware of more than the fact it was planned.
[11:01] <henninge> wgrant, lifeless, tymofiy: That feature is currently under development and is scheduled for this cycle.
[11:01] <henninge> if other things don't get in the way ...
[11:04] <henninge> tymofiy: It is already possible for translators to commit, if I understand correctly what you mean by that.
[11:28] <RenatoSilva> thank you guys, I'm leaving, bye.
[12:38] <abentley> lifeless, dpm, tymofiy: Some implementation has been done, but the feature's not finished yet, AIUI.
[13:34] <didrocks> hi! Is there any way to check the permission level with launchpadlib the user chose when launching "get_token_and_login" (I don't find anything related to this in https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib)
[13:38] <intellectronica> didrocks: i'm pretty sure there isn't, but it's worth asking leonardr when he's around
[13:39] <leonardr> didrocks: you can only check that from the website
[13:39] <didrocks> leonardr: so, if the user click on the wrong button, I can't know it before first crash in editing, for instance?
[13:40] <leonardr> didrocks: i believe so
[13:42] <didrocks> hum. I was thinking about using manage-credentials to do that without opening the browser
[13:42] <didrocks> it's working well on edge, but crashing on staging
[13:43] <didrocks> not good if I want to test and don't create a tons of projects automatically :D
[13:46] <leonardr> didrocks, what is manage-credentials, a script?
[13:47] <didrocks> leonardr: yes, in ubuntu-dev-tools package
[13:47] <james_w> leonardr: yeah, it's in ubuntu-dev-tools so that every tool there doesn't have to deal with creating credentials
[13:48] <james_w> it has a mode where it will just not open the browser and grab the token for you, which I guess is what doesn't work on staging
[13:49] <leonardr> how does it grab the token without opening the browser?
[13:49] <james_w> do you really want to know?
[13:50] <leonardr> james_w: yes, because you might be phishing
[13:50] <james_w> it takes --email --password and --level options and does the login and post itself
[13:50] <leonardr> yeah, you're phishing
[13:50] <james_w> I'm not very keen on having it there
[13:50] <leonardr> you're negating the security advantages of oauth
[13:50] <didrocks> james_w: that'w why I was asking a cleaner method to check access level once the token is given :)
[13:51] <didrocks> that's the only part which interests me in my case :)
[13:51] <didrocks> (my tool need write level on LP given by the user, otherwise, it's unusefull)
[13:51] <james_w> negating some of the advantages at least
[13:52] <leonardr> didrocks: feel free to file a bug asking for introspection on the token within the web service. i've argued for that in the past but it's been shot down. if you show that people want it it's more likely to happen
[13:52] <leonardr> james_w: what's left? you're acting the same as a website that asks for your facebook password
[13:52] <james_w> leonardr: can we extend the interface so that an app can say in the OAuth request "I need write permission", and then LP provides a different interface
[13:52] <james_w> ?
[13:52] <leonardr> james_w: that'd be one way to solve it
[13:53] <james_w> leonardr: but I can (and have) verified that the tool doesn't store the password
[13:53] <didrocks> james_w: it's exactly what I want "write access" or "deny"
[13:53] <james_w> it's not the default behaviour of this tool or anything, and as I said, I'm not that keen on it
[13:53] <leonardr> james_w: you're training users to enter their launchpad password into any app that asks for it
[13:53] <james_w> no I'm not
[13:54] <leonardr> whoever uses manage-credentials is
[13:54] <james_w> and I encouraged didrocks to not do it this way, but with the interface that LP currently provides it requires a lot more work for the person writing the app
[13:55] <didrocks> that's why I wanted to change this. But I really need a way to check or restrict the user choice for granting access
[13:55] <leonardr> james_w: i want to make the interface as easy as possible, but the whole point of oauth is to let us tell users "you should NEVER enter your launchpad password unless you are IN YOUR WEB BROWSER and AT THE LAUNCHPAD SITE"
[13:56] <james_w> if it's possible to do this in the OAuth request then I will file a bug listing the cases that I think we should cater to
[13:56] <leonardr> if there's anything i can do to make things easier within that constraint, let me know and salgado and i will be happy to do it
[13:56] <james_w> leonardr: I have the same aim
[13:56] <james_w> great
[13:56] <james_w> I'd be looking for bugs under launchpad-foundations?
[13:57] <leonardr> james_w: yes, i think so
[13:57] <james_w> I'll file one now then
[13:57] <james_w> oh, it's already there
[13:58] <james_w> bug 199555
[13:59] <leonardr> james_w: there are some new credential-getting methods in launchpadlib you might not be aware of
[13:59] <leonardr> and once i can land the code you'll be able to get public read credentials anonymously, without making the user log in
[13:59] <didrocks> leonardr: I completed this bug report
[14:00] <james_w> that's cool
[14:00] <james_w> I've not looked at the new lplib
[14:01] <james_w> I'm still working my way through packaging the new/updated dependencies
[14:01] <leonardr> didrocks: what's the bug number? i'm probably going to merge it into 199555
[14:01] <didrocks> leonardr: I added a comment to 199555
[14:02] <leonardr> ok, great
[14:03] <didrocks> so, I'm reverting to the traditional way, waiting for a better way to ask level access and not treating the exception meanwhile :)
[14:03] <leonardr> cool
[14:08] <james_w> added my comment to the bug as well
[14:24] <leonardr> james_w: i filed bug 387297 against ubuntu-dev-tools
[14:39] <sinzui> barry_: ping
[14:39] <barry_> sinzui: pong
[14:40] <sinzui> barry: I don't think you are on #launchpad-code, are you ready for our standup?
[14:40] <barry> sinzui: yep. could be irc disconnected me
[14:55]  * RenatoSilva thinks that +jungle would be better than +junk.
[15:20] <RenatoSilva>  I tagged a specific revision, but when I commit or push, it stands that there's nothing to change. Why?
[15:20] <RenatoSilva> It seems that new tags are not considered as changes
[15:24] <kiko> RenatoSilva, I'm not entirely sure, hmm
[15:24] <kiko> abentley, what do you think of the above?
[15:26] <abentley> kiko, RenatoSilva: tags aren't part of revisions, which is the main thing "push" considers when it emits that message.  I'll have to check whether they're pushed anyway in that case.
[15:26] <RenatoSilva> I was talking in #bzr. Tags are pushed anyway.
[15:27] <RenatoSilva> I just can't find them in Launchpad tough.
[15:27] <leonardr> james_w: i just had a talk with flacoste and mars about bug 387297
[15:27] <leonardr> i'm writing an update
[15:28] <james_w> cool
[15:29] <RenatoSilva> it seems a loggerhead issue
[15:36] <RenatoSilva> abentley, kiko: bug 246739
[15:45] <kiko> RenatoSilva, are tags visible from anywhere on launchpad itself?
[15:47] <RenatoSilva> kiko: I don't think so
[16:17] <didrocks> can somebody create gtkhtml3.14 project in LP please? (it differs from gkthml)
[16:55] <fta> didrocks, can't you do it yourself?
[16:58] <didrocks> fta: I think, but the process was to ask to jcastro (I don't know if he setup particular things like upstream bug) and as he is busy, he told me to ask here :)
[16:59] <fta> oh, ok then. i thought it was open to anyone.
[17:00] <fta> ripps, is https://edge.launchpad.net/~ripps818/+archive/staging fully automatic now?
[17:00] <fta> oops, wrong channel
[17:01] <ripps> fta: Having put it in a cron job yet, but it still works everytime I run the script so far.
[17:01] <ripps> *Haven't
[17:01] <fta> excellent
[17:02] <kiko> didrocks, go ahead and create it and I can do any admin stuff on it that is necessary
[17:03] <didrocks> kiko: I just don't know what can of admin stuff jorge is doing, if he does :). I will ask him later, when he will be less busy
[17:04] <kiko> well, just show me -- it's likely to be checking the project, linking it to any ubuntu packages, reassigning it to ~registry etc
[17:08] <didrocks> kiko: ok, I created https://edge.launchpad.net/gtkhtml3.14
[17:08] <didrocks> this has to be related to this package: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtkhtml3.14
[17:08] <kiko> let me check
[17:09] <didrocks> I tried to set the maintainer to "Registry Administrators", but as I'm not part of the team, I can't
[17:09] <didrocks> kiko: if you want a recent example jcastro has done, you can check there: https://edge.launchpad.net/libgtop
[17:18] <kiko> didrocks, can you confirm they use the gnome bug tracker?
[17:22] <didrocks> kiko: I'm looking, maybe pedro knows this
[17:23] <didrocks> kiko: I'm not sure if they use gtkhtml as a product, or gtkhtml2... I prefer to ask to pedro first
[17:28] <ahasenack> hi guys, the landscape "later" milestone is still timing out in LP (production and edge), any news about that? It has 287 bugs, most of them private, and from previous discussions I understand this is the issue (the security check)
[18:01] <kiko> ahasenack, that's interesting! do you have an OOPS ID for us?
[18:04] <stefanlsd> From the Launchpad API, what does 'Link to a file resource. ' mean?
[18:06] <intellectronica> stefanlsd: it's a link to a file, hosted on the launchpadlibrarion
[18:07] <stefanlsd> intellectronica: in this case, i would like to attach a file to a bug report...
[18:08] <intellectronica> stefanlsd: you can use the addAttachment (iirc) method on Bug
[18:09] <stefanlsd> intellectronica: yeah. I am looking at the API doc for it, although the one required field is  'Link to a file resource'. I've tried a python file resource, but doesnt seem to work
[18:11] <intellectronica> stefanlsd: i think you just pass the data itself when using launchpadlib
[18:27] <Scurz> hi
[18:28] <Scurz> I've created a new mailing list on launchpad and would like to know who (if these personn are presents) accepts or refuses the new mailing lists ?
[18:29] <beuno> Scurz, approved
[18:30] <Scurz> beuno: oh, thanks to you !
[18:33] <Scurz> hmm, I have a question, can I subscribe someone to the mailing list who has no account on launchpad ?
[18:50] <beuno> Scurz, no, only launchpad memebers can subscribe
[19:05] <Scurz> beuno: ok
[19:06] <vadi2> Where can I go to unsubcribe from bug mail from a particular project?
[19:12] <vadi2> ah, got it. wasn't really intuitive to me, I looked everywhere in my personal preferences first, and 'Subscribe to bug mail' when I want to unsubscribe is eh :)
[19:35] <aboudreault> emm...
[19:36] <aboudreault> I selected "Copy binaries ..." in launchpad and my package is "waiting to be built"
[19:36] <aboudreault> And that build should fails at the upload ... it's the second time I got a similar error
[19:37] <aboudreault> Does that bug is known ?
[19:37] <kiko> aboudreault, it's more likely that there's something wrong with the package
[19:38] <aboudreault> What could be wrong ?
[19:38] <kiko> aboudreault, you can try asking cprov for help, or at least paste-bin the build failure so others can see it
[19:38] <kiko> it /could/ be a bug -- there is a bug around that is related to binary copies indeed -- Ursinha or matsubara can find the number for us
[19:39] <cprov> aboudreault: point me to the PPA page, I can take a look
[19:39] <aboudreault> the packge built successfully.... for jaunty. Then I just wanted to copy binaries to intrepid. And ... a rebuild is "forced" or something...
[19:39] <aboudreault> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntugis/+archive/ubuntugis-unstable
[19:39] <aboudreault> You can see the package gdal-ecw , which has a failure for intrepid
[19:40] <aboudreault> and I'm absolutly sure that I've selected "copy binaries" and not the rebuild option.
[19:41] <aboudreault> off course, I can solve this by creating a package-1-1~intrepid1 version... just wanted to report it.
[19:44] <cprov> aboudreault: fear not, I'm checking.
[19:45] <aboudreault> Ok, will wait
[19:51] <cprov> aboudreault: did you get an copy error before it succeed ?
[19:52] <cprov> aboudreault: which forced you to re-select the source you wanted to copy  ...
[19:52] <aboudreault> not for intrepid. it has been copied without error. after, tried to copy the package from jaunty to hardy, and get the error that the package was building for intrepid.
[19:57] <cprov> aboudreault: that's weird, let me play more with it in my ppa. You can just delete the intrepid copy and copy again from jaunty with binaries.
[19:59] <aboudreault> Ok... will try to recopy
[20:01] <cprov> aboudreault: okay, let me know if it works or crashes this time. Sorry for the inconvenience.
[20:03] <aboudreault> the build status of the old one is set to the new copy.
[20:05] <cprov> aboudreault: yes, that's a side-effect of having a built in intrepid that shouldn't be there, although the repository will be sane now
[20:05] <cprov> aboudreault: i.e, jaunty and intrepid will have the same binaries (the ones built on jaunty)
[20:07] <aboudreault> Ok, so the package will be published as normal ?
[20:08] <cprov> aboudreault: yes, that's what we can find out in 3 minutes
[20:09] <aboudreault> all right. thx
[20:09] <cprov> aboudreault: np.
[20:12] <aboudreault> cprov: same problem with hardy
[20:12] <aboudreault> will do the same thing after the build fail
[20:12] <cprov> aboudreault: but you copied it while we were talking ?
[20:13] <aboudreault> I just tried to copy it 2 minutes ago
[20:13] <aboudreault> when the intrepid one was marked as "published"
[20:14] <cprov> aboudreault: I'm trying to reproduce it in my PPA and I can't, copy fails
[20:15] <cprov> what kind of race condition is that ...
[20:15] <aboudreault> just a guess, try selecting the "Copy binaries" option before selecting the destination serie.
[20:18] <cprov> aboudreault: found it, 'copy binaries' before there are any binaries published.
[20:19] <aboudreault> hmm
[20:19] <aboudreault> Ok, will copy the binaries as soon as they are uploaded in the future
[20:20] <cprov> aboudreault: the backend thinks the source has failed in the series it was previously uploaded and retries it in the destination series.
[20:21] <aboudreault> Ok. my package for intrepid is marked "Published   14 minutes ago" but can't get it with apt-get update && install. I think I have to reupload a modified version.
[20:22] <cprov> aboudreault: that's the source, not the binaries.
[20:23] <aboudreault> Ok, will wait a while.
[20:27] <aboudreault> but if the build status is a failure, the binaries will not be published, no?
[20:28] <cprov> aboudreault: no, not this simple, your binaries are indeed not published. Let me digg more.
[20:29] <aboudreault> all right.
[20:36] <eagle00789> how to fix the Cannot find svn repository root. problem??
[20:37] <sinzui> barry:  ping
[20:38] <barry> sinzui: pong
[20:38] <sinzui> barry I think you fell off #launchpad-code
[20:38] <barry> sinzui: irc sucks
[20:38] <sinzui> barry: barry I'm reading https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/350390
[20:39] <cprov> aboudreault: the binaries are not being copied to the other series (the UI might be saying that, only one record in the information-message rendered after the copy)
[20:43] <cprov> aboudreault: are you selecting the jaunty published record to copy over the other series ?
[20:44] <aboudreault> yes
[20:44] <aboudreault> jaunty to intrepid,hardy
[20:44] <cprov> aboudreault: the copy works on https://edge.launchpad.net/~cprov/+archive/sandbox, despite of the fact the builds are broken, the binaries end up being published
[20:45] <cprov> aboudreault: in your case there are only binaries for jaunty.
[20:45] <aboudreault> k, so for that time, I'll have to reupload a modified version of the package
[20:47] <cprov> aboudreault: if you can wait few minutes more, the binaries can be copied.
[20:48] <aboudreault> Unfortunately, I gtg. I'll let the repository like it is... and reupload a new version (if needed) tomorrow morning.
[20:49] <aboudreault> If you have more info, keep me informed in private please. (to be sure I'll see the message)
[20:49] <aboudreault> Thanks again for your help.
[20:50] <cprov> aboudreault: deal.
[20:56] <eagle00789> how to fix the Cannot find svn repository root. problem??
[21:03] <eagle00789> this is my import url: svn://smartass.webhop.info:443/share/HDA_DATA/svn/ToolbarKiller
[21:03] <eagle00789> can someone check please what i did wrong so i can have launchpad do an import of the code??
[21:11] <eagle00789> anyone??
[21:11] <eagle00789> i'm struggling with this problem for days now...
[21:14] <fta> {code,bazaar}.lp should display the svn rev-ids when a branch is imported from svn. the bzr revs have no value upstream and are causing confusion. at least, the two should be display, like in bzr log
[21:15] <fta> +ed
[21:15] <eagle00789> and how to fix it??
[21:17] <eagle00789> the problem is that this still is a initial import wich doesn't run...........
[21:29] <eagle00789> this is the last problem i have to get launchpad working for me....
[21:51] <thumper> eagle00789: ask a question on launchpad-code project and include a link to the import branch
[21:52] <eagle00789> àlready done about 2 days ago. still no answer...
[21:53] <eagle00789> sorry, has been 4 days already
[21:55] <eagle00789> last post: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/73930
[22:02] <Saviq> hi all, any word on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/73756 ?
[22:30] <eagle00789> don't waste your breath here. i'm also still waiting for an answer on one of my questions
[22:33] <Saviq> yeah it seems there's not enough staff working @ launchpad recently
[22:34] <eagle00789> if there is any staff working at launchpad at al.
[22:35] <eagle00789> they are currently spending way to much time on open sourcing launchpad... (don't know how they can call it that, when the most used features of launchpad will remain closed source)
[22:40] <exarkun> enjoy your whine-fest
[22:40] <eagle00789> i'm not whining. it's just frustrating...
[22:41] <eagle00789> each and every question i ask everywhere lately is neglected. even Experts Exchange. have a question there open for more then 2 weeks now without ANY responce...
[22:46] <Saviq> eagle00789: still, this kind of attention won't get you any good
[22:46] <eagle00789> i know... you are right
[23:13] <jkakar> Bug folks: thanks for adding the lp: to the beginning of branch URLs.  It makes pasting them a little bit easier, which adds up when you do it 20 times a day.
[23:15] <RenatoSilva> Hey guys, do you remember our talk about branches and projects?
[23:15] <RenatoSilva> Can I create a project called "branches"?
[23:16] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Why would you want to do that?
[23:16] <wgrant> Unless you have some software named 'branches', that seems like a bad idea.
[23:19] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: it's a meta project, just an alternative for +junk
[23:20] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: If you want bugs for your branch, you should probably just create a project for that branch.
[23:20] <wgrant> Anything else is probably going to be very ugly.
[23:20] <RenatoSilva> a place to put non-project branches which aren't junk either
[23:21] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: If it is non-project, it is by definition junk.
[23:21] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: actually, bugs is secondary, the main thing is to publish code
[23:22] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: What is the benefit of having that project, rather than just using +junk?
[23:22] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: junk is a strong word, it sounds like old stuff, gabbage
[23:22] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: That's not the intended meaning here.
[23:22] <wgrant> And you don't work around bad terminology by creating hacks.
[23:22] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: main benefit is the label
[23:24] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I just think it's a better neutral level, I can't avoid associating +junk with sand boxes or so. Maybe it's not the sense, but the word is strong.
[23:24] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: File a bug, perhaps. But creating projects with the same purpose as +junk isn't right.
[23:24] <RenatoSilva> s/level/label
[23:27] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I do have some stuff here that 'junk' fits well, for example learning_java or so... but other stuff is more than junk, and less than project...
[23:27] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: Why is it less than a project?
[23:27] <wgrant> A project has no minimum size.
[23:39] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I think it's annoying, imagine 50 projects of single files
[23:40] <RenatoSilva> some code just do a litte but useful work, I think it's weird calling them proooojects
[23:41] <RenatoSilva> can I really set up many projects of little stuff? Won't you find it annoying?
[23:59] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: bug 387552


[00:07] <wxl> hah told you it was UEFI TheSchaf
[00:09] <Felix_Amore> Thanks for all your help and being kind!
[00:09] <wxl> no problem :)
[00:09] <wxl> glad you figured it out!
[00:09] <wxl> that's certainly a weird one
[00:11] <Felix_Amore> Now final decision time: Lubuntu or Parrot Lite.
[00:13] <Felix_Amore> Have a great day guys!
[01:36] <Felix_Amore> So how often does the installation process fail when it comes to installing grub?
[02:05] <wxl> Felix_Amore: what version is this again?
[02:05] <Felix_Amore> Which thing are you asking about?
[02:06] <wxl> Felix_Amore: lubuntu.
[02:06] <Felix_Amore> Well, uh. I'm trying parrot lite first. And they don't have an irc channel to bother so I'm here <.< >.>
[02:06] <wxl> XD
[02:07] <wxl> there's always ##linux
[02:08] <Felix_Amore> Well they said update my bios, but thats difficult to do without an operation system on the machine. The bios update from acer is a .exe and I'm not running that on my non-acer machine.
[02:08] <wxl> yeah BIOSes are no fun
[02:08] <wxl> i have one that i was faffing with for a while with FreeDOS and what have you to get it to go. no luck yet.
[02:09] <Felix_Amore> I got far enough to format the whole drive, so now my new laptop has *no* operating system.
[02:09] <wxl> yay! :)
[02:09] <wxl> well i guess that's the first step in wipe and replace hehehe
[02:10] <Felix_Amore> It is.
[02:20] <wxl> well going home. leave a message if you're still stumped. someone will get back to you :)
[02:39] <Felix_Amore> Well, at least lubuntu also fails at downloading grub.
[04:28] <Szellem> d
[04:31] <Guest53128> i am trying to install lubuntu on an old xp machine and can't boot from disc
[13:59] <Felix_Amore> Hi all, I'm trying to repair my grub using boot-repair and it's failed at the bit where yo uneed to copy/paste commands into a terminal. The error message is "GRUB is still present. Please try again" and I've tried again, a few times.
[16:47] <DoomJoshuaBoy> Hi guys i have a GPU driver that lost support for ubuntu AMD radeon 6770m but was wondering if this works any good for lubuntu?
[17:01] <krytarik> DoomJoshuaBoy: Lubuntu (and any other flavor too ftm) is based on Ubuntu, so.. no.
[17:02] <DoomJoshuaBoy> ok thanks anyway