[03:22] <wincide> hi
[03:01] <Madpilot> morning all
[03:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey.
[03:02] <jsgotangco> hi ho!
[03:02] <robotgeek> mornin
[03:02] <jsgotangco> shall we?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> who's here?
[03:03] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, welcome nonetheless :)
[03:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) thanks
[03:03] <jsgotangco> ok https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[03:03] <jsgotangco> is the agenda
[03:03] <jsgotangco> i wasn't at the last meeting so i dunno what transpired there
[03:03] <jsgotangco> (there was no summary either)
[03:03] <jjesse> mdke around?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> probably at work
[03:04] <jsgotangco> #1 Use of common files for a number of documents. For example, preface.xml and getting-help.xml should be common between all documents. (mdke)
[03:04] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:04] <jsgotangco> anyone have an idea about that?
[03:04] <jjesse> the same across kubuntu and ubuntu docs?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, just in time
[03:05] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:05] <jsgotangco> i think so
[03:05] <robotgeek> maybe it can be same for ubuntu, same for all kubuntu stuff
[03:05] <jsgotangco> aren't they common before?
[03:05] <Madpilot> I assume mdke means the getting-help.xml in the (k)ubuntu Desktop guides?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> he
[03:06] <jsgotangco> he's not here anyhow
[03:06] <jsgotangco> let's go to #2 first
[03:06] <jsgotangco> #
[03:06] <jsgotangco> WikiCleanupProposal
[03:06] <jsgotangco>     *
[03:06] <jsgotangco>       discussion of approval of the suggested reforms
[03:06] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[03:06] <jjesse> wwhy is it so hard to get doc team people to show up to these meetigns/
[03:06] <jjesse> ?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> jjesse, good question
[03:07] <Madpilot> have people had a look at UserDocumentationBeta?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> our man from brisbane isn't here
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse: because it's such a spread out group maybe *shrug*
[03:07] <jsgotangco> Namaan
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: it's 1am brisbane (au) time (iirc)
[03:07] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:07] <jsgotangco> right
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> it's 00:37 here.
[03:08] <jsgotangco> where are you at?
[03:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> central Australia
[03:08] <jsgotangco> thought so
[03:08] <jsgotangco> Alice Springs?
[03:08] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> Adelaide (hills)
[03:09] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, what about UserDocumentationBeta
[03:09] <jsgotangco> none?
[03:10] <jsgotangco> ok #3
[03:10] <bhuvan> its me!
[03:10] <jsgotangco>  Review ServerGuide sections
[03:10] <bhuvan> service guide is almost through
[03:10] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, go go go
[03:10] <bhuvan> i prefer to proof-read the sections and set it finished
[03:11] <jsgotangco> how complete is it?
[03:11] <bhuvan> technically, it is complete 90% complete
[03:11] <jsgotangco> whoa
[03:11] <jjesse> that's awesome
[03:12] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, when do you expect the manuscript to be done?
[03:12] <jsgotangco> a week more?
[03:12] <bhuvan> some one should check the english/grammar and what not ?
[03:12] <bhuvan> if you mean translation, once proof reading is complete ?
[03:12] <jsgotangco> DocumentationStringFreeze is on March 23 that gives us 1 month to review the document before passing it for translation
[03:13] <jsgotangco> that's really really good
[03:13] <bhuvan> so, we have enough time. but remember the status remains for couple of weeks now!
[03:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: does that mean we have a month to clean up the wording, or 1 month of translaiton time?
[03:13] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: a month of cleanup
[03:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> cool
[03:14] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, we have almost a month to finish up the documents before passing it for translation
[03:14] <jsgotangco> translation is given almost a month
[03:14] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, ping us when the manuscript is done
[03:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> wow ok
[03:14] <jsgotangco> then i can arrange for a review day
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ?
[03:14] <jsgotangco> DOCREVU
[03:14] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: there's a Dapper release timetable on the wiki somewhere
[03:15] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, you can send to the list when its 100% right?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> then we can do reviews
[03:15] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[03:15] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <jsgotangco> (i'll start reading in advance)
[03:15] <jjesse> can we start reviewing before the doc is 100% or do you just want us to wait for making suggestions?
[03:15] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks Madpilot
[03:15] <jsgotangco> we can start review in advance
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, i want to continue with review
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, we need not wait till it is 100% complete
[03:16] <jsgotangco> i suggest people who review edit the document by only adding <!-- comments -->
[03:16] <jsgotangco> comments nothing more
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, imo, we should wait to complete 100% before moving to translation
[03:16] <jjesse> agreed
[03:16] <jsgotangco> unless we actually see a typo
[03:16] <jjesse> to comments
[03:16] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, agreed
[03:16] <jsgotangco> cool?
[03:17] <jsgotangco> <!-- jsgotangco: foo foobar -->
[03:17] <bhuvan> <!-- foo foobar --> should be ok; author can be identified by userid ?
[03:18] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, or you expect people to submit patches for review ?
[03:18] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:18] <jsgotangco> good question
[03:18] <jsgotangco> it could be silly to commit patches that only have comments though
[03:18] <jsgotangco> i guess doc.ubuntu.com will be of good use here
[03:18] <jsgotangco> on second thought
[03:18] <jjesse> couldn't suggestions become comments and actually technical problems or issues be actually commeted?
[03:18] <jjesse> committed
[03:18] <bhuvan> in the past, how did we handle this situation ?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> we didn't review much before to be honest
[03:19] <jsgotangco> no time
[03:19] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:19] <jsgotangco> but a month is really good
[03:19] <jjesse> if for say something in the ssh section could be done a different way, then use the comment section to suggest the change, but if there is a technical problem with the guide or a grammical problem then actually make the change?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> how about we schedule a week of review from witihin the group....
[03:19] <jsgotangco> then after the group review, we open it up for community
[03:20] <bhuvan> jjesse, let the author make final correction irrespective of whether it is suggestion, correction or technical problem
[03:21] <bhuvan> jjesse, let the author take a call
[03:21] <jsgotangco> unless the entry is very very erroneous
[03:21] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, in this context, how will d.u.c be of good use ?
[03:21] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, agreed
[03:22] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, d.u.c. creates a build of the doc in html
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yeah
[03:22] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of having peer review first before community
[03:22] <jsgotangco> peer review (those with commit)
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yep! it makes more sense
[03:23] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, when can we expect it to be done?
[03:23] <jjesse> how do you limit that? send a mail to only those with commit access?
[03:24] <jsgotangco> well it doesn't make sense to commit comment patches...
[03:24] <bhuvan> or, shall we maintain a review file in repo and add comments/suggestions/corrections into it. the author can review and make appropriate corrections in main document; it is just a thought though
[03:24] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:24] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i don't think we'll have a decision on this now
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i will make an email later about  this
[03:25] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:25] <jsgotangco> we'll get better suggestions if we use the list
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i'll also look at how others do it
[03:26] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, we should do this in quick time
[03:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:26] <jsgotangco> i'll send an email later
[03:26] <jsgotangco> promise
[03:26] <bhuvan> once we finalise the method, we can go about the review and sure we may adopt the same method for other documents too..
[03:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:27] <jjesse> that would be one part taht would be nice to standarize on
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ok so we cool here?
[03:27] <bhuvan> jjesse, jsgotangco: yes
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ok who has an update for other docs
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:28] <robotgeek> well, on the Kubuntu DG front, i have been receving lots of help
[03:28] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, yes awesome
[03:28] <bhuvan> robotgeek, you are lucky :)
[03:28] <bhuvan> it would be great if we insist on a up-to-date status report of all documents
[03:29] <robotgeek> people seem to be put off by the whole docbook format, so i offered to convert it to docbook for them.
[03:29] <bhuvan> ie.. it should be part of make target
[03:29] <robotgeek> they all learnt docbook, btw
[03:29] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, understandable, we don't have much choice at the moment, it needs some pretty deep brainstorming
[03:30] <robotgeek> i have to convert it to follow KDE style guide explicitly, hopefully a decent amount of work will be finished by next week
[03:30] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, what's the status of the doc?
[03:30] <Madpilot> bhuvan: Ubuntu Desktop Guide now has status reports that're far more complete, anyway - I added most of the missing status tags last week
[03:31] <robotgeek> hmm, about 3 chapters done (75%), 2 to start
[03:31] <bhuvan> Madpilot, excellent
[03:32] <robotgeek> i'm still trying to get content in there, removing it later on will be easier
[03:32] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/KubuntuDesktopGuide
[03:33] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:33] <jsgotangco> its not part of the build
[03:33] <Madpilot> robotgeek: you should add an entry here - or coordinate with jsgotangco to get it added: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
[03:34] <robotgeek> Madpilot: okay, will do
[03:34] <Madpilot> afk - back in a sec
[03:34] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:34] <jsgotangco> i haven't updated the quickguide much
[03:34] <jsgotangco> kubuntu
[03:34] <jjesse> i haven't either :(
[03:34] <jsgotangco> but i'll look into the desktop guide and see
[03:35] <jjesse> for ubuntu or kubuntu?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> it'll probably become redundant if the desktop guide will rock
[03:35] <jsgotangco> kubuntu
[03:35] <jjesse> we are currently shipping about-kubuntu kubuntu releasenotes and also the quickguide
[03:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> well that's the plan
[03:36] <jsgotangco> but robotgeek and co. had been up to speed with the kdg
[03:36] <Madpilot> back - which reminds me... jsgotangco, can you politely prod elmo or someone about my commit rights please?
[03:36] <jsgotangco> (although i haven't read that much)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, ok
[03:37] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, did you give him your key?
[03:37] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: it's on LP
[03:37] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[03:37] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: as i said earlier, getting content in there, need to give it a thorough cleanup.
[03:37] <jsgotangco> sorry
[03:37] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, just send patch i'll commit
[03:37] <jjesse> robotgeek: were you at teh kubuntu meeting yesterdya? i don't remember if you were or not
[03:38] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: https://launchpad.net/people/yh728
[03:38] <robotgeek> i was there jjesse
[03:38] <jjesse> ok
[03:38] <bhuvan> Madpilot, in the first look, it seems all "In progress" should become "Review" (ex: Adding, Removing and Updating Applications)
[03:38] <jsgotangco> hmm mhz isn't here
[03:38] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, funny heh members should be whitelisted imho
[03:38] <jjesse> i can look at the desktop guide as soon as my new laptop gets in :(
[03:39] <jsgotangco> take note "new"
[03:39] <jsgotangco> wooo
[03:39] <Madpilot> bhuvan: for Ubuntu DG? Probably, I just wanted to get the status tags in to start with
[03:39] <jjesse> note new: kubuntu chapter and changes were on there and hadn't backed up :(
[03:39] <robotgeek> ouch
[03:39] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[03:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> bugger
[03:40] <jjesse> but getting them resent so it isn't that bad
[03:40] <bhuvan> Madpilot, ok
[03:40] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:40] <jsgotangco> we're doing good now
[03:40] <jsgotangco> in edubuntu side, me and mhz are drafting a quick doc
[03:40] <jsgotangco> just ot make sure we have an edubuntu guide
[03:40] <jsgotangco> not to complez
[03:41] <jjesse> and the cookbook is rocking from what i've heard
[03:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: I'm willing to help with content if i have time
[03:41] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, cool...we're going to talk about it this weekend
[03:41] <jsgotangco> just a very basic doc overview
[03:41] <jsgotangco> (more desktop oriented)
[03:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: ok
[03:42] <jsgotangco> ok my TODO tonight are:
[03:42] <jsgotangco> #1 send email to list about review plan
[03:42] <jsgotangco> #2 update DocteamProjects
[03:43] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, i'll discuss to you the plan later
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: np. in -doc some time iis cool
[03:43] <jsgotangco> ok we've discussed all in agenda, we're now open to anyone who asks
[03:45] <jsgotangco> oh and #3 bug about svn access
[03:45] <jsgotangco> anything else?
[03:45] <robotgeek> i think everyone is happy
[03:45] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[03:45] <jjesse> robotgeek: will the desktop guide get finished by doc freeze?
[03:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> do we have document templagtes?
[03:45] <jsgotangco> wait wait
[03:45] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh

[03:46] <robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, i sure hope so!
[03:46] <jsgotangco> The [WWW]  Documentation Team is organising documentation for Ebuntu, and for more please contact [WWW]  Manish Chakravarty
[03:46] <jsgotangco> who is Manish Chakravarty?????
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> the bloke who made ubuntu+E17
[03:46] <bhuvan> name suggests, he is an indian!
[03:46] <jsgotangco> doh obviously! heh
[03:46] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: ogra mailed on the lists to change the name
[03:47] <jjesse> umm didn't know the doc team was doing things on that :)
[03:47] <robotgeek> yeah bhuvan
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse: it's not :)
[03:47] <ogra> yup, i did
[03:47] <Madpilot> jjesse: sounds like it's news to the DocTeam too :P
[03:47] <jjesse> accordign to the wiki it is :)
[03:47] <jsgotangco> awesome we have active E17 docteam
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> got an co.in yahoo account
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> *he's got
[03:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse:  it's not an offical (or even remotely offical) project - it's not our problem
[03:48] <jsgotangco> well 2 of the active docteam contributors are indian, i'm not complaining...but this is soo wrong
[03:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> i don't care where he's from, i care that he's saying the docteam will do (his) work
[03:48] <jsgotangco> right
[03:48] <robotgeek> :)
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> *gets worked up*
[03:49] <jsgotangco> i'll look for the thread too
[03:49] <Madpilot> anyone been to this #ebuntu channel yet?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> ok that's #4 todo
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> nope
[03:49] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, nope
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[03:49] <bhuvan> oh!
[03:50] <robotgeek> which is the whole problem, bhuvan
[03:50] <ogra> they are totally unrelated
[03:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> which is anotehr problem (which is up for discusion)
[03:50] <Madpilot> bhuvan: see the wiki link jsgotangco posted above
[03:50] <ogra> but you cant force them
[03:50] <ogra> just beg to change that
[03:50] <jsgotangco> blingbuntu
[03:50] <Madpilot> hmm... there is no channel #ebuntu on freenode that I can see - not right now, anyway

[03:50] <ogra> bhuvan, btw thats what happens to most people ....
[03:50] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i'll look for the thread too and react about the docteam link being there
[03:51] <robotgeek> Madpilot: there is
[03:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> there's email about it on -devel and -users mail lists
[03:51] <Madpilot> robotgeek: really? I can't get it listed in my IRC client - odd
[03:52] <jsgotangco> i don't think its registered yet
[03:52] <jsgotangco> wow bad enlgish
[03:52] <jsgotangco> i think its not registered yet
[03:53] <Madpilot> ah, it does exist, but isn't listed - odd
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:53] <jsgotangco> so what shall we do
[03:53] <jsgotangco> will I react with a reply to that thread?
[03:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> edit the wiki page to remove the 'docteam will' reference?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hmmm is that the right thing to do
[03:54] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: how about commenting it out, with another comment that the DocTeam hasn't been contacted?
[03:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: yes, that's probably the correct way to get the same result
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:55] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i'll comment it out and add a comment that contact us about this
[03:56] <jsgotangco> cool?
[03:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds good to me.
[03:56] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:58] <jsgotangco> Hi Manish, I've commented this out because the DocumentationTeam has not been contacted about this. If you have questions or concerns, don't hesitate to contact me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- Jerome Gotangco
[03:58] <jsgotangco> ok just made a minor edit
[03:58] <robotgeek> or on irc
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> both?
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> nah
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> send him an email if you want to contact him direct
[03:59] <jsgotangco> its ok
[03:59] <jsgotangco> i'll do that
[04:00] <jsgotangco> done
[04:00] <jsgotangco> anythying else?
[04:00] <jjesse> nope
[04:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> do we have any doc templates?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> or do we just rip the guts out of an existing page and use that ?
[04:01] <jsgotangco> what kind of templates?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: basic document layout
[04:01] <jsgotangco> docbook?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh.
[04:01] <jsgotangco> svn has it
[04:01] <jsgotangco> we've just hit 1 hour
[04:01] <jsgotangco> are we cool now on the meeting?
[04:01] <jjesse> i'm cool
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> yep.
[04:01] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, i'll guide you later
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> how long are we allowed here? 1 hour only?
[04:03] <jsgotangco> well its ours at this time
[04:03] <jsgotangco> but we don't have anything on the agenda anymore
[04:03] <jsgotangco> its best to move back to -doc
[04:03] <jsgotangco> okay
[04:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds good. see you all there
[04:04] <jsgotangco> next is March 3, 21UTC
[04:04] <jsgotangco> cool?
[04:04] <robotgeek> i'm cool with almost any time, so +1
[04:05] <jsgotangco> christ that 5am on me
[04:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> I'll try and make it
[04:05] <jsgotangco> okay

[04:05] <jsgotangco> cool 21UTC then


[01:13] <Eickmeyer> Oh, those are cheap.
[01:13] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
[01:39] <OvenWerks> Not too bad anyway. most have a via chipset, I want the TI if I can get it.
[02:07] <OvenWerks> catia looks like it will soon be separate from cadence
[02:08] <OvenWerks> It would be nice to have a stand alone patch bay. starting Carla up just for patch bay it a bit much.
[02:09] <wonko> Eh, it doesn't bother me too much
[02:09] <wonko> but I wouldn't argue against it either
[02:10] <OvenWerks> wonko:  you missed the first line :)
[02:11] <OvenWerks> 19:07 < OvenWerks> catia looks like it will soon be separate from cadence
[02:11] <wonko> I don't think I've ever used catia?
[02:11] <wonko> I don't remember, it's been more than a week
[02:11] <wonko> :-D
[02:12] <wonko> yeah, I used Claudia and Cadence
[02:12] <wonko> Claudia is basically just Catia + session
[02:14] <OvenWerks> old unmaintained session
[02:14] <wonko> hey, I had no idea what I was doing. :)
[02:15] <OvenWerks> I don't think anyone wanys to revive ladish
[02:15] <Eickmeyer> Ladish can rot in a dark place. It's very buggy.
[02:28] <OvenWerks> Try write only memory...
[18:58] <wonko> OvenWerks: Quick question. Is there a reason you didn't use something like configparser for the config file?
[19:01] <OvenWerks> wonko cause I have never heard of it?
[19:01] <OvenWerks>  :)
[19:02] <wonko> Can I switch to that instead? :)
[19:02] <OvenWerks> config and reconfig should get merged and probably configstart should deal with only some params changed
[19:02] <wonko> I'm trying to clean up that nightmare known as the config stuff in this code.
[19:04] <OvenWerks> so long as no breakage happens
[19:04] <OvenWerks> is it an easy incude?
[19:05] <OvenWerks> (ie make sure /debian/control has the right include
[19:05] <wonko> yeah, I've been trying to just re-use your code but it's getting kinda gunky to do so. I'm going to see if I can do it cleaner with configparser
[19:05] <wonko> it's python standard library
[19:06] <wonko> I will have to support legacy though
[19:06] <wonko> but I'll get it writing out to your new location (and reading it back in if it exists) using configparser
[19:09] <wonko> is launchpad borked?
[19:09] <wonko> wonko@deepthought:~/Documents/projects/ubuntustudio-controls (master)*$ git pull
[19:09] <wonko> fatal: unable to access 'https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/': The requested URL returned error: 503
[19:16] <wonko> OvenWerks: Is there a reason the SysInfo class exists to your knowledge? It's bad for in python to make a class of what are standalone static methods.
[19:19] <wonko> s/bad for/bad form/
[19:30]  * OvenWerks is not on his dev computer right now and so is not sure.
[19:37] <wonko> doesn't need to be answered right away. I'm going to close my eyes and try to not look at all the wrongness and focus on config for now. :-D
[19:42] <OvenWerks> wonko: one thing to remember is that this started out as python 2 and some things maybe the way they are for that reason... or because I found python 2 docs to refer to.
[19:42] <wonko> I'll try to be nice. :)
[20:05] <Eickmeyer> wonko: Can you link me to your launchpad profile so I can add you to the ubuntustudio-dev group?
[20:05] <Eickmeyer> I consider you an official part of the team now.
[20:05] <Eickmeyer> It'll allow you to push commits.
[20:08] <OvenWerks> wonko: almost everything above the class ubuntustudiocontrols predates my messing around with it.
[20:09] <OvenWerks> So class SysInfo is from an olde version that only installed /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf (Ithink it is) and made sure th euser was in the audio group. I have never written anything similar since.
[20:09] <wonko> Ok, I'll make those just standalone static methods then
[20:09] <OvenWerks> no problem.
[20:10] <wonko> Eickmeyer: https://launchpad.net/~bhechinger
[20:10] <wonko> and thanks. I appreciate the trust. :)
[20:12] <OvenWerks> wonko: autojack is mine as a rewrite from the bash script I used before on my family's computers
[20:12] <OvenWerks> I will wait till you have made changes before I continue
[20:12] <wonko> I haven't looked at that one yet. I'll let you know how it is when I get to it. :)
[20:13] <OvenWerks> autojack is where the good stuff happens. controls just sets up the config file and signals to autojack to use the new config.
[20:16] <Eickmeyer> wonko: Welcome to the team. :)
[20:16] <wonko> Eickmeyer: Thanks!
[20:16] <Eickmeyer> I figured since you and OvenWerks are working so hard and collaborating on Controls, that we just make it official.
[20:44] <wonko> I certainly appreciate it.
[20:44] <wonko> XDEV is a pain. :)
[21:17] <wonko> OvenWerks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jKscvsdjK5/
[21:17] <wonko> The new save file format
[21:17] <wonko> Looks suspciously like the old format. :)
[21:22] <wonko> Eickmeyer: What's the trick to authenticating to do a git push?
[21:25] <wonko> oh, wait
[21:25] <wonko> you can't push via https?
[21:29] <OvenWerks> Whats the default for? Just automaticly generated?
[21:30] <wonko> configparser supports multiple sections
[21:30] <wonko> it needs at least one, which is default
[21:30] <wonko> in this case because I didn't think it needed a different name
[21:31] <wonko> later on we can break the config file up logically if we see fit
[21:31] <wonko> branch configparser pushed up with the changes to controle
[21:31] <wonko> controls
[21:31] <wonko> need to do autojack next
[21:32] <wonko> Are there plans to deprecate the old config file at some point? That would be nice. We could axe a bunch of ugly code. :)
[21:34] <OvenWerks> so you mean the old location?
[21:34] <wonko> yeah
[21:34] <OvenWerks> not before the 18.04 LTS has died.
[21:34] <wonko> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/tree/usr/bin/ubuntustudio-controls?h=configparser#n199
[21:35] <wonko> that big if/elif block is replaced by: self.config.read(c_file)
[21:35] <wonko> much easier on the eyes. :)
[21:35] <OvenWerks> I would expect that.
[21:35] <wonko> when's EOS for 18.04?
[21:36] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^??
[21:37] <Eickmeyer> EOL for 18.04 is April 2021 for flavors, 2023 for regular Ubuntu support.
[21:37] <OvenWerks> in autojack it needs to be different. We need to fist save the old config parameters then read in the new ones and check what has changed.
[21:38] <Eickmeyer> Easy way to check: !18.04
[21:38] <Eickmeyer> !bionic
[21:38] <Eickmeyer> Hmmm.... I know there's a command for this.
[21:38] <Eickmeyer> !18.04
[21:38] <Eickmeyer>  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[21:38] <OvenWerks> wonko: there are some things where a config change does not have to restart jack
[21:38] <wonko> OvenWerks: Yeah, I noticed that. I'll make sure to maintain that.
[21:39] <wonko> what does autojack do? watch the config file for changes?
[21:39] <wonko> I can just read the code too. :)
[21:39] <OvenWerks> no it has a callback from dbus... well 5 or 6 of them
[21:40] <OvenWerks> so even if there is no config file change it can restart the world or things like that. the dbus set up is right at the bottom at startup.
[21:40] <wonko> So autojack doesn't write the config file ever, riight?
[21:41] <OvenWerks> never
[21:41] <OvenWerks> it only reads
[21:41] <wonko> can it be safely assumed controls has run first to make sure the new config file exists?
[21:41] <wonko> or is that an unsafe assumption?
[21:41] <OvenWerks> no
[21:41] <wonko> bleh, ok
[21:41] <OvenWerks> if a person upgrades, it will have run first
[21:42] <wonko> I'll put the config migration code in there as well then
[21:42] <OvenWerks> or even first run.. because it autostarts at session start
[21:42] <wonko> ok, April 2021 can't come fast enough. :)
[21:42] <wonko> anyway, time for me to toodle off for the day. I'll pick this back up tomorrow morning.
[21:43] <wonko> I should have all the changes ready for you then
[21:43] <OvenWerks> So it has to A) have defaults, B) read old stuff,
[21:43] <wonko> yeah, i'll definitely do that
[21:43] <OvenWerks> and C) convert the old to new
[21:44] <OvenWerks> wonko the first time controls runs, if it finds and old audojack it kills it.
[21:45] <wonko> ok, so both need to read old and convert (or create new if it doesn't exist)
[21:45] <OvenWerks> wonko: controls pings autojack and if it doesn't get an answer that includes the right version, it sends a quit message and starts a new one
[21:45] <OvenWerks> autojack just reads but converts to new variables
[21:46] <wonko> How atomic is the autojack/controls interaction? Meaning, whichever one runs first will definitely have had time to write the new config file if needed before the other tries to read?
[21:46] <OvenWerks> both jsut read old formats if they exist
[21:47] <wonko> right, but only if the new file doesn't exist yet
[21:47] <OvenWerks> yes.
[21:48] <OvenWerks> controls removes the old one before writing... should make sure it is just before writing or just after I guess
[21:48] <wonko> so my concern is the situation where the new file doesn't exist yet and needs to be converted from old. Will whichever program that starts up first definitely have written the new version before the other one starts up and reads?
[21:48] <OvenWerks> autojack run at session start
[21:48] <wonko> I just worry about those two colliding
[21:48] <OvenWerks> so it always runs first
[21:48] <wonko> anyway, being paged for dinner, talk later
[21:48] <OvenWerks> ok
[22:21] <wonko> I had a thought while eating. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the config file conversion as part of the deb package post script instead of relying on the apps to handle it?
[22:23] <OvenWerks> It is generally frowned on to mess with files within the user's directory.
[22:24] <OvenWerks> (during an install or removal
[22:26] <OvenWerks> wonko: to me saving a few lines of code is not such a big deal.
[22:31] <OvenWerks> A few if statements can solve a lot stuff
[22:41] <wonko> Oh right, user dirs
[22:41] <wonko> Duh, that wouldn't work anyway


[07:22] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:24] <lordievader> explore: Depends on how you configure your vnc server. You can usually configure it to destroy any running application when the user disconnects.
[17:53] <smoser> Odd_Bloke: fyi https://code.launchpad.net/~simplestreams-dev/simplestreams/+git/simplestreams/+merge/375843
[17:54] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Yeah, I'm going to be looking at fixing that this afternoon.
[17:55] <Odd_Bloke> Both rafaeldtinoco and I ran the focal build locally before landing which worked, but that didn't catch it for some reason.
[17:57] <smoser> Odd_Bloke: your local build had python
[17:57] <smoser>  /usr/bin/python was there
[18:01] <Odd_Bloke> I thought I used a schroot which wouldn't have it, but maybe I'm misremembering.
[18:02] <smoser> Odd_Bloke: i just recreated failure here with a schroot build.
[18:02] <smoser> but all schroots are nto created equal
[18:02] <smoser> you want sbuild-launchpad-chroot
[18:02] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, now I did too.
[18:02] <Odd_Bloke> So who knows what I did last week. :p
[18:03] <smoser> its possible that it disappeared just over the wekeend
[18:04] <smoser> from the launcpad schroots
[21:28] <explore> lordievader: thank you
[22:48] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: https://code.launchpad.net/~simplestreams-dev/simplestreams/+git/simplestreams/+merge/375984
[23:07] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Ugh, actually, I missed that this is causing CI failures.


[00:06] <sarnold> nacc: logout/login again
[00:13] <nacc> sarnold: yeah, that gave some 500s and other errors
[00:13] <nacc> sarnold: it worked again after a bit :)
[00:13] <sarnold> nacc: ooh fun! :)
[00:15] <nacc> sarnold: :)
[00:28] <slangasek> ginggs: when syncing packages for a lib transition, just a reminder to check that the lib package is built and published on all archs first; uploading no-change rebuilds of gimagereader,openalpr now for arm64+armhf
[00:29] <Unit193> nacc: So wait, I can start pestering you soon? :D
[00:34] <nacc> Unit193: well, pending approval eventually :)
[08:18] <ginggs> slangasek: thanks, i did wait and check with rmadison, but must have missed something
[15:19] <ogra_> cjwatson, infinity, something is behaving very weird regarding PPA packages and seeds today ... could that be related to archive re-org ?
[15:23] <cjwatson> ogra_: can you please give more details?
[15:24] <ogra_> cjwatson, i uploaded a 0.7.41~ppa1 version to the snappy PPA earlier (deleted it again since that breaks images) ... from that moment on the build didnt pull it in with the normal seed anymore ...
[15:24] <cjwatson> ogra_: Builds don't know about seeds at all.  Do you have the URL to the build?
[15:24] <ogra_> i have some hook scripts that apt-get install that pakcage when producing the kernel snaps ... there it is found and actually pulled in from the PPA
[15:25] <cjwatson> ogra_: I can only investigate this if you point me to a build log or something.
[15:26] <ogra_> any of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/ubuntu-core-system-image/ ... if you look for initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core in one of teh build logs, you will see it doesnt get installed during the normal seed installation, only later
[15:26] <ogra_> (i dont have a working log on that page anymore since i did a lot of re-builds today ...)
[15:27] <ogra_> if yu can find the one for 20160409 it should be a good one for comparison
[15:30] <ogra_> the first mentioning of the package is in:
[15:30] <ogra_> + dpkg -s initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core
[15:30] <ogra_> + sed -n /^Version:/{s/^[^: ]*: \([^: ]*\).*/\1/;p;}
[15:30] <ogra_> dpkg-query: package 'initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core' is not installed and no information is available
[15:30] <cjwatson> ogra_: Which PPA in particular do you mean?  ppa:snappy-dev/ubuntu/image ?
[15:30] <ogra_> (which obviously should error out when it cant find the package)
[15:30] <ogra_> yeah
[15:30] <ogra_> as i said, i removed the package now
[15:31] <cjwatson> ogra_: And what was the package name that you uploaded?
[15:31] <ogra_> initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core
[15:31] <cjwatson> You could save me a lot of time by not making me play twenty questions here :P
[15:31] <ogra_> sorry
[15:31] <ogra_> what i uploaded is the same thing thats in the xenial queue now ...
[15:32] <ogra_> (but with a ~ppa1 suffix)
[15:32] <cjwatson> oh right, you're relying on Task fields to get this package installed?
[15:33] <cjwatson> (can't be seeds, but could be Task fields derived from seeds)
[15:33] <ogra_> yes, no metapackage for snappy
[15:33] <cjwatson> ah well, there you go
[15:33] <cjwatson> PPAs have never had Task fields generated for them *shrug*
[15:33] <cjwatson> nothing to do with the recent reorg
[15:33] <ogra_> well
[15:34] <ogra_> why does it not pick the archive version then ?
[15:34] <ogra_> it simply drops the package
[15:34] <cjwatson> presumably because it looks at latest versions of things before it considers Task, I don't know
[15:34] <ogra_> (and i'm pretty sure it worked before)
[15:34] <cjwatson> but it's not new
[15:35] <cjwatson> if it worked before then either apt behaved subtly differently or (more probably) the package was also pulled in by a dependency from something else that still had its Task field
[15:35] <cjwatson> all this stuff is undefined
[15:35] <ogra_> hmm, k
[15:35] <cjwatson> if you want predictable behaviour then you'll probably have to use a metapackage
[15:35] <cjwatson> or I suppose you could hardcode the Task field just in the PPA upload
[15:36] <cjwatson> evil but would work for temporary testing
[15:36] <ogra_> in debian/control ?
[15:36] <cjwatson> yes, in the binary stanza
[15:36] <cjwatson> might need to be XB-Task, I don't quite recall
[15:37] <cjwatson> anyway, I have to go again, good luck
[15:37] <ogra_> k ... well, i dont think i'll use it ... the thing i wanted to test sits in the queue now ... but i'll note it down
[17:03] <cjwatson> darkxst: FYI (from #ubuntu-mirrors) there's an apt-cacher-ng config workaround linked from my latest blog post
[17:03] <cjwatson> darkxst: https://bugs.debian.org/819852
[22:50] <darkxst> cjwatson, thanks!


 Too many years with very little linear algebra makes for a slow duflu
[08:28] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:28] <duflu> See above
[08:28] <duflu> How are you seb128?
[08:29] <tjaalton> seb128: are we getting mutter 3.28?
[08:29] <seb128> I'm good, still tired though
[08:29] <duflu> tjaalton, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1751070
[08:29] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1751070 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu) "mutter 3.28 transition" [Wishlist,In progress]
[08:29] <tjaalton> ok
[08:30]  * duflu crosses fingers
[08:30] <tjaalton> thing is that the diff to force 8bit rgb doesn't apply to 3.26 since it's missing stuff
[08:31] <tjaalton> I'm not even sure if it would matter there
[08:31] <tjaalton> since it doesn't have meta_egl_choose_config()
[08:32] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[08:34] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg
[08:34] <seb128> tjaalton, so that transition nows require us to update the shell stack to 3.27?
[08:35] <tjaalton> seb128: i'm saying it might not affect mutter 3.26
[08:35] <seb128> ah
[08:35] <seb128> so back to investigate what's the issue that makes clutter autopkg red?
[08:37] <tjaalton> mutter disables some clutter tests that clutter itself doesn't
[08:37] <tjaalton> at least one of them was now failing
[08:38] <seb128> so back to recommending just skipping that one?
[08:39] <seb128> did anyone tested that the new stack doesn't result in a buggy session, with xorg and wayland?
[08:39] <tjaalton> I've been using it with xorg for weeks
[08:40] <seb128> and did you try to log into wayland session?
[08:41] <tjaalton> trying now
[08:41] <seb128> thx
[08:42] <tjaalton> seems to work
[08:43] <tjaalton> but this is intel, AIUI it would need a driver that uses gallium (radeon, swrast)
[08:44] <seb128> the discussions about that transition seem tedious
[08:44] <seb128> I would just like to know what's the way out
[08:44] <seb128> we need to unblock things, other work needs to land :/
[08:45] <tjaalton> looks like moving i965_dri.so aside breaks logging in
[08:45] <tjaalton> thought it would use swrast then
[08:46] <tjaalton> guess it tries to respawn the session, and i'm locked out
[08:46] <tjaalton> can't access anything :)
[08:47] <seb128> :/
[08:50] <seb128> duflu, we said no bluetooth meeting this week right? (iirc konrad is not there?)
[08:51] <duflu> seb128, sounds right
[08:51] <seb128> good, so I'm staying outside a bit longer :)
[08:51] <duflu> seb128, isn't it cold there?
[08:53] <seb128> duflu, only -7°C :)
[08:57] <seb128> k, I'm changing location, back in 5-10 min
[08:57] <willcooke> morning all
[08:59] <Nafallo> morning willcooke :-)
[08:59] <Nafallo> 17:08:49 <seb128> hehe
[08:59] <Nafallo> 17:08:50 <Nafallo> and the release days :-D
[08:59] <Nafallo> 17:08:59 <seb128> good luck
[08:59] <Nafallo> meh
[08:59] <Nafallo> not that button...
[09:01] <Laney> moin oin
[09:11] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how is u.k today?
[09:19] <willcooke> hi seb128, some nice snow here over night
[09:20] <willcooke> Quite nice this morning, the kids all get very excited when they open their curtains
[09:20] <seb128> :)
[09:21] <darkxst> hey willcooke, seb128, Laney
[09:22] <jibel> seb128, hi, do you  have a bug associated to the removal of ecryptfs?
[09:22] <jibel> in ubiquity
[09:22] <willcooke> yo darkxst
[09:22] <seb128> jibel, hey, no, would that be useful/better?
[09:22] <seb128> hey darkxst
[09:23] <jibel> seb128, no, it was just to add it to the commit log for the sake of documentation.
[09:24] <darkxst> willcooke, we must almost be due for some snow, but right now its just a smoky mess outside ;( fires down in the valley
[09:24] <seb128> jibel, the security team is due to write a post about that "this week" since january, we agreed that they are too busy and that it shouldn't block the commit
[09:24] <willcooke> darkxst, :((
[09:25] <Laney> hey seb128 darkxst
[09:25] <Laney> and willcooke jibel too
[09:25] <willcooke> hoy Laney, snow?
[09:25] <Laney> poor showing
[09:25] <willcooke> :(
[09:26] <Laney> hoping my fuschias are surviving
[09:26]  * Laney fleeced them up
[09:27] <darkxst> seb128, isnt g-s-d using systemd user sessions? and a bunch of other services? really the only r-dep I can find that still uses X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay is probably update-notifier
[09:28] <darkxst> ^(re gnome-session patches obviously)
[09:28] <seb128> darkxst, no, GNOME isn't using systemd user sessions
[09:28] <seb128> L_aney is working on that
[09:28] <seb128> see https://trello.com/c/9kiXF8rW/28-systemd-user-session-for-gnome-shell
[09:30] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey, did you see jbicha's question the other day about whether you plan to update system-config-printer in bionic?
[09:30] <seb128> tkamppeter, Debian has a newer version than us
[09:31] <mitya57> Trevinho: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.9.4+dfsg-0ubuntu3 contains your Qt patch
[09:34] <darkxst> seb128, ok will have a look
[09:36] <seb128> tjaalton, so what's the conclusion about clutter/autopkg/transition?
[09:38] <tkamppeter> jbicha, seb128, no, but I planned updating it today, to version 1.5.11
[09:40] <seb128> tkamppeter, k, that version is already in Debian if that helps you
[09:40] <seb128> tkamppeter, also did you see my comment on https://trello.com/c/kMTto6kl/2-fix-printing-of-filled-pdf-forms-using-qpdf ?
[09:41] <tjaalton> seb128: xorg and totem work fine even with swrast, i can't test radeon but could add a workaround in /etc/drirc
[09:41] <tjaalton> needs mesa upload though
[09:42] <seb128> tjaalton, well I don't know if that's needed
[09:42] <seb128> what would you recommend doing?
[09:42] <tjaalton> accept what we have now
[09:42] <seb128> I'm not following you :/ do you have confidence the update is fine and should be forced in or reserves on whether it might screw users on some videocards/drivers?
[09:43] <seb128> Laney, ^ wdyt?
[09:43] <tjaalton> iff mutter 3.26 would be affected, then the workaround is to log in to x
[09:45] <tjaalton> or i'll force-disable the 10bit support in drirc
[09:45] <seb128> there is something wrong in our process if we can't test that case upfront without relying on screwing users and waiting them to report back
[09:46] <tjaalton> well, does anyone here have radeon?
[09:46] <tjaalton> no
[09:46] <tjaalton> (i bet)
[09:47] <tjaalton> I need to head out for a bit
[09:47] <seb128> if we don't even have a radeon machine in ubuntu engineering then something is indeed wrong and we need to get somebody to buy/expense one imho...
[09:47] <seb128> tjaalton, k, thanks for the update, let's see if Laney has an opinion on what we should do
[09:48] <tjaalton> I have at the office but it's -15C and won't be going there today
[09:48] <seb128> k
[09:48] <tjaalton> I'll just add the drirc workaround and upload
[09:48] <tkamppeter> seb128, I have downloaded it. wiull merge it.
[09:49] <seb128> tjaalton, thx
[09:49] <Laney> I don't understand the problem
[09:49] <Laney> If the tests are now wrong, upload clutter to fix or drop them
[09:49] <seb128> tjaalton, thanks, sorry for being annoying about that, I just want things to get unblocked :/
[09:49] <Laney> If they are right and there's a problem, it should be fixed
[09:49] <seb128> tjaalton, that's going to fix clutter's tests?
[09:49] <tjaalton> no
[09:49] <tjaalton> just gnome-shell
[09:50] <tjaalton> makes sure it doesn't break on wayland
[09:50] <seb128> so is anyone looking at the clutter test issue?.
[09:50] <Laney> I think tseliot was looking into the clutter/cogl thing specifically
[09:50] <seb128> that's blocking the transition still :/
[09:50] <seb128> ah ok
[09:50] <seb128> tseliot, hey :)
[09:51] <tjaalton> i'd say screw clutter
[09:51] <seb128> we can't do that
[09:51] <tjaalton> totem works
[09:51] <seb128> as Laney said, either it's a real issue and we need to fix it
[09:51] <seb128> or it's not one but we understand what's going on and decide it's ok to skip
[09:51] <tjaalton> well, the mutter patch is for 3.27
[09:52] <tjaalton> cogl is way older
[09:52] <seb128> but clutter tests aren't on a GNOME stack
[09:52] <seb128> so that update might still screw standalone clutter users
[09:52] <tjaalton> I'll upload this after lunch, sorry
[09:52] <seb128> no problem
[09:52] <seb128> enjoy lunch!
[09:57] <seb128> Laney, can we hint gtk to ignore the clutter autopkg so it gets in?
[09:57] <tseliot> seb128, Laney: I'm working on it
[09:58] <seb128> or is it going to be blocked by that transition anyway?
[09:58] <seb128> I guess it it picked the proposed version that's because they need to go together?
[09:58] <seb128> tseliot, thanks
[09:59] <tseliot> xserver, mesa, and the nvidias should go in together, yes
[10:01] <seb128> but gtk?
[10:03] <Laney> not sure why the test got the mesa stack from proposed
[10:03] <Laney> that indicates that it picked up a dep or something
[10:11] <Laney> I could add the hint though and then we'll see if it works or not
[10:11] <Laney> this isn't the fault of gtk
[10:17]  * Laney stabs bzr
[10:17] <Laney> "These branches have diverged" never fails to make me want to cry
[10:18] <seb128> :/
[10:19] <oSoMoN> snowy morning, desktoppers
[10:20] <Laney> ok, there, let's see
[10:20] <Laney> hey oSoMoN
[10:20] <Laney> been out making a snowman?
[10:20] <seb128> Laney, thx!
[10:20] <seb128> hey oSoMoN
[10:24] <oSoMoN> Laney is watching me ⛄
[10:24] <oSoMoN> hey seb128 !
[10:25] <oSoMoN> anyone else having issues connecting to canonistack instances?
[10:26] <oSoMoN> the one that I use for my IRC bouncer is off, and the web console is currently unavailable
[10:27] <Laney> they've been doing restarts for spectre
[10:28] <oSoMoN> right, that might be it
[10:28] <Laney> could be
[10:47] <tseliot> Laney: hey, how can I use local packages with autopkgtest ?
[10:50] <tseliot> Laney: or, how do I test my new packages?
[10:50] <tseliot> oh "Run tests from Debian .dsc source package"
[10:55] <popey> oSoMoN: one for you maybe? https://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/80uyx8/different_version_numbers_of_libreoffice_snap/
[10:55] <Laney> you can give it a .dsc and that will be built and tested or an amd64+source.changes if you already built it
[10:56] <oSoMoN> popey, that's weird, let me read this again and try to make sense of it
[10:56] <jibel> seb128, I reviewed your MP, it needs a small fix and it's all good.
[10:57] <Laney> tseliot: or if you fix in a different package you can give those debs on the commandline too
[10:57] <Laney> like if you wanted to add a new cogl in
[10:57] <Laney> and test clutter
[10:57] <tseliot> Laney: how?
[10:57] <Laney> after the source package to test
[10:58] <Laney> see autopkgtest(1) - it calls those 'testbinary'
[11:00] <oSoMoN> popey, that looks like a bug in gnome-software that's displaying info from the candidate channel
[11:01] <oSoMoN> oh wait, it's not a bug, you can click on the channel label in the details to switch channels
[11:01] <oSoMoN> I'm not sure why candidate is selected by default though
[11:07] <tseliot> Laney: ok, thanks
[11:21] <jibel> since the update of gnome-terminal this morning in bionic, symlinks in byobu are blinking. Is anyone seeing that?
[11:21] <jibel> my eyes are bleeding
[11:23] <popey> yes
[11:23] <popey> someone told me this happens in some other terminals a while back
[11:23] <jibel> popey, is there a bug for it?
[11:24] <popey> dunno, I only just noticed when you mentioned it
[11:24] <jibel> okay, I'll report one
[11:24] <jibel> popey, thanks
[11:24] <popey> its not just urls
[11:24] <popey> symlinks do too
[11:24] <popey> (here anyway)
[11:24] <seb128> jibel, great, thanks
[11:24] <jibel> yes, what I said.
[11:24] <popey> oh, i read it as urls.. duh
[11:25] <jibel> and just in byobu, without it it's fine
[11:25] <popey> dont think it's since this morning btw
[11:25] <popey> I haven't updated for a few days
[11:26] <seb128> Laney, gtk migrated, thanks :)
[11:30] <Laney> np
[11:32] <jbicha> jibel: I don't know what you're talking about but blinking text is a new feature 😉 https://git.gnome.org/browse/vte/commit/?id=38396ef8
[11:34]  * popey blinks
[11:41]  * xnox pukes
[11:42] <tseliot> Laney, tjaalton: I suspect the regression in virtualbox that's blocking X is more like the test looking for the vboxvideo.ko, which is not even mentioned in the sourceshttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#gdbm<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:43] <tseliot> as all the modules build here
[11:43] <oSoMoN> bah, we had that back in the 90s with the HTML blink element
[11:43] <tjaalton> tseliot: the maintainer knows, and said it should be badtested
[11:44] <ahayzen> Hmm Tilix has an option for Blink Mode, wonder if that'll switch it off, gnome-terminal doesn't seem to have such an option (at least in 17.10 :-) )
[11:44] <tseliot> tjaalton: badtested?
[11:44] <tjaalton> tseliot: ignored
[11:45] <tseliot> tjaalton: ok, it makes sense, looking at the logs
[11:45] <oSoMoN> seb128, is there anything blocking the promotion of libepubgen to main?
[11:47] <seb128> jibel, k, I pushed an update which should fix that and remove the autopilot corresponding file as well
[11:47] <Laney> tseliot: apw (oh hi) usually takes care of that one I think
[11:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, no, just too much to do, I did it now
[11:52] <jibel> seb128, thx
[11:52] <seb128> jibel, thank you for testing&reviewing
[11:52] <oSoMoN> seb128, thanks!
[11:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, yw!
[11:59] <apw> tseliot, wassup ?
[12:00] <tseliot> apw: the tests for virtualbox are looking for a module (vboxvideo.ko) that is not there any more<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:00] <tseliot> apw: and this is one of the things blocking xorg-server: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#gdbm
[12:01] <tseliot> vbox builds without problems here
[12:03] <apw> tseliot, that log shows it failing to check the version correctly, but the thing _is_ there
[12:03] <apw> tseliot, that said that is meant to be fixed ...
[12:04] <tseliot> apw: oh, I suppose that comes from virtualbox-guest-dkms, I only tested virtualbox-dkms
[12:05] <apw> tseliot, anyhow that can be ignored as it has passed otherwise
[12:05] <apw> tseliot, but i did all the work to make this work, and yet it is not applied, wtf
[12:06] <tseliot> heh
[12:15]  * duflu masters elliptical hysteresis
[12:15]  * duflu forgot to eat
[12:33] <apw> tseliot, oh no it is there, just that that one driver is now officially in staging
[12:33] <tseliot> oh
[12:47] <apw> tseliot, and dkms is very very dumb when handling this
[12:54] <apw> tseliot, hinted anyhow
[13:14] <xnox> seb128, should encrypt-home be dropped from user-setup udeb too? such the d-i does not ask those questions.
[13:14] <xnox> seb128, i know that we may use native-fisesystem encryption in the future, but until then, imho it's better to drop the code alltogether.
[13:14] <xnox> seb128, we have version control to resurrect things.
[13:15] <seb128> xnox, if you want to sure, I didn't want to have to chase kubuntu people to know what they wanted to do so I only removed the option from the installer we use in Ubuntu Desktop
[13:16] <seb128> but it probably makes sense to remove it from d-i is we support that one
[13:16] <seb128> is->if
[13:16] <xnox> seb128, my thinking was that the underlying tech is unsupportable, reliably, any more =/
[13:17] <xnox> seb128, was this requested by security team, no? i wonder if i should double check with tyhicks
[13:17] <seb128> that might be the case, I'm not going to stop you if you want to go further
[13:17] <seb128> yeah, he said it was going to move to universe
[13:17] <seb128> not to be removed from the archive
[13:17] <seb128> so I guess flavors could still use it if they wanted
[13:18] <seb128> but you are right, it's probably not a good thing to do
[13:19] <Laney> tseliot: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/z44XsGY8NS/ I thought that might be useful to you
[13:19] <Laney> the remaining xorg-server failure
[13:20] <Laney> pasted it twice in there by mistake, go to line 100
[13:21] <Laney> soup time, bbbbbbbbbbbbrb
[14:08] <jbicha> Laney: have you consider adding totem to the minimal-remove list?
[14:09] <jbicha> and what about ubuntu-web-launchers??
[14:14] <Laney> don't ask me, I'm not sure what the specification is, I just copied the list didrocks came up with
[14:15] <jbicha> ok, I'll add it to the big stack I have for him :)
[14:18] <tseliot> Laney: I'll have a look at it, thanks
[14:20] <Laney> jbicha: wi_llcooke could probably assist you
[14:21] <Laney> don't think you'll get away with ubuntu-web-launchers
[14:21] <Laney> nice try though :P
[14:24] <seb128> jibel, thanks for the reviews, sorry for the stupid mistake I didn't do any extra testing after the previous changes, should have I guess
[14:24] <seb128> jibel, going to fix that in a bit
[14:26] <jibel> seb128, np, I fixed them and continuing with the review
[14:26] <jbicha> it would be controversial if u-web-launchers was included and it's more noticeable when the Dock & Activities Overview are more empty
[14:26] <seb128> jibel, great, thx
[14:28] <willcooke> jbicha, totem seems like a good idea, but I dont want to cause more changes, so if it can be added to the list easily, wfm.  u-w-l I think we'd need to keep really.  But I will defer to didrocks who is back tomorrow
[14:28] <Laney> controversial to who?
[14:28] <Laney> I think it's as controversial as it's going to get anyway
[14:29] <jbicha> there will be complaints and I expect reviewers will notice
[14:30] <jbicha> as far as controversies goes, this one is kinda "minimal" though ;)
[14:34] <seb128> sorry I changed location and closed IRC, what's the suggestion?
[14:36] <seb128> jibel, if the rest is fine do you want to merge my branch and commit your fix after it, or me to include your changes?
[14:37] <jbicha> seb128: I suggested that ubuntu-web-launchers be added to the minimal-remove list
[14:37] <seb128> ah
[14:39] <seb128> willcooke, don't make didrocks be unhappy on his day back by having to have it to make a call for things he doesn't care about/didn't make the requirement for :)
[14:43] <willcooke> seb128, well, I said I didnt want to make more changes, so I've said no already, but if he wants to say yes, thats fine by me
[14:43] <seb128> k, wfm
[14:43] <willcooke> :)
[14:44] <seb128> it's easy to tweak that list now, thanks to L_aney
[14:50] <jibel> seb128, I'll test on kubuntu just in case, then apply my changes and merge your proposal
[14:51] <seb128> jibel, k, you might hit the issue raised on #ubuntu-release with the kde installer though
[14:52] <jibel> seb128, oh, okay, I'll just approve and merge then
[14:52] <seb128> thx :)
[14:52] <jibel> and have a look at this kde crash
[14:52] <seb128> jibel, it looks weird, the diff has no mention of that secureboot label
[14:53] <jibel> seb128, the page layout changed, maybe the xml is broken a bit
[14:53] <jibel> i'll see
[14:53] <Laney> don't duplicate too much with tsimonq2
[14:56] <amano> jibel, blinking cursors is a new feature in gnome-terminal
[14:57] <amano> you can turn that off in the preferences
[14:58] <xnox> =/
[14:59] <xnox> i really hope we can ship a sensible default of non-blinking, for the sake of epileptic users.
[14:59] <amano> (in your gnome-terminal profile to be exact)
[15:00] <jibel> amano, okay, but blinking symlinks is byobu is not nice. I suppose the default theme of byobu needs fixing
[15:00] <jibel> s/is/in/
[15:01] <jibel> which reminds me I had to file a bug
[15:03] <jbicha> seb128: should I go ahead and upload e-d-s 3.27 late today to avoid FFe paperwork?
[15:03] <amano> I guess the reason for Egmond Kobleder was that if an app thinks that it has  a good reason to blink  (e. g. attention grabbing) , let it blink
[15:03] <seb128> jbicha, that's going to add up to the mesa/gnome-desktop transition if we do that right?
[15:03] <jbicha> yes
[15:03] <seb128> so please don't
[15:03] <jbicha> ok
[15:03] <seb128> tseliot and tjaalton are working on clearing those out
[15:04] <seb128> let them today at least
[15:06] <jbicha> jibel: as a workaround, Terminal > Edit > Preferences > Allow blinking text
[15:07] <amano> speaking of gnome-terminal: is there still a Unity CSD patch applied or does it still lack a symbol for the preferences in the title bar?
[15:08] <jbicha> amano: ?
[15:09] <amano> a preferences button next to minimise/maximise/close
[15:10] <amano> there should be one, I guess
[15:11] <jbicha> I still don't understand
[15:11] <seb128> jbicha, he seems to want an hamburger menu in a csd decoration?
[15:11] <seb128> upstream wishlist
[15:13] <amano> ah ok, it is still not there upstream then.
[15:13] <jibel> jbicha, thanks, that's fine. I don't spend my day starring at symlinks and can bear it until the default is fixed :)
[15:13] <amano> (yes, a hamburger menu ;)   )
[15:14] <jbicha> amano: you mean headerbars (aka client-side decorations)?
[15:14] <amano> yes, headerbars ;)
[15:15] <jbicha> that's a rough spot with the Terminal maintainer, there is a bit of progress there but it may take a while, see GNOME bug 756798
[15:15] <ubot5`> Gnome bug 756798 in general "Gnome-Terminal Header Bar (Client-Side Decorations)" [Enhancement,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756798
[15:16] <jbicha> maybe the kind of person who enjoys dealing with low-level terminal emulation coding isn't as quick to adopt new UI stuff :)
[15:16] <jbicha> also, terminal is more complex than most GNOME apps
[15:17] <amano> thanks. I always thought that was hidden in Unity . But I like Egmond's work with 2.27/28. The new preferences window looks very clean 😍
[15:18] <amano> it always felt a bit weird to have separate preferences and profile preferences
[15:33] <amano> s/2.27/3.27
[16:22] <jibel> Laney, there is no minimal install on kubuntu with your patch. Is it expecteD?
[16:23] <jibel> OTOH it does not crash
[16:24] <Laney> jibel: yeah they don't have it
[16:24] <Laney> it's per flavour
[16:25] <jibel> okay. Everything else is going well
[16:30] <Laney> great
[16:30] <Laney> thanks for being a ubi reviewer
[16:46] <tjaalton> Laney, seb128: I've verified that the clutter test failures were indeed due to the 10bit configs, verified by adding workarounds to drirc for each failing test binary
[16:46] <tjaalton> now hoping tseliot has a working cogl soon :)
[16:48] <tseliot> tjaalton: unfortunately my patch didn't really work. I'm getting the exact same failures
[16:49] <tjaalton> ok, bah
[16:52] <tseliot> tjaalton: well, the autopkgtest command ignored my local packages, that's why
[16:53] <tseliot> oh, no it didn't
[16:53] <tseliot> I misread
[16:58] <tjaalton> I'll try something quick..
[17:09] <tjaalton> no dice
[17:11] <tjaalton> actually
[17:11] <tjaalton> it looks like clutter itself is to blame after all, the tests I mean
[17:11] <tjaalton> would be interesting to see how cogl tests would fare
[17:12] <seb128> tjaalton, hum, I've difficulty following, we are basically at the same point as yesterday then?
[17:12] <tjaalton> yes
[17:12] <seb128> clutter is failing and nobody has a clue why/how to fix it
[17:15] <tjaalton> I'll check if cogl tests (which aren't built) fail
[17:15] <seb128> tjaalton, that puts us in a tricky position :/
[17:15] <seb128> unsure what to do from there
[17:15] <seb128> ff is tomorrow and thats blocking other work to land
[17:16] <seb128> we could delete that stack from proposed since it seems not ready
[17:16] <tjaalton> i know
[17:16] <seb128> or pile other things
[17:16] <seb128> or delay other lands, screw schedule, need extra ffe, etc
[17:16] <seb128> none of options is great :/
[17:17] <seb128> tjaalton, do you need help from somebody and if so what kind of somebody? like what bits are not understandable in the test failure?
[17:18] <tjaalton> I'll just revert stuff from mesa then
[17:19] <tseliot> tjaalton: would that allow libglvnd and nvidia to work?
[17:19] <tjaalton> unrelated
[17:20] <tseliot> ok, good
[17:24] <andyrock> kenvandine hey hey
[17:25] <andyrock> kenvandine do you know if GsAuth is used just for snapd and ubuntu-reviews g-s plugins?
[17:26] <andyrock> we might need to modify it in order to get g-s integrated with g-o-a
[17:29] <tjaalton> seb128, tseliot: I'll just flip the default in mesa and be done with it for now..
[17:30] <tjaalton> no need to revert anything
[17:30] <kenvandine> andyrock, i really don't know
[17:30] <kenvandine> andyrock, robert_ancell would probably know
[17:30] <andyrock> thanks I'll ping him tonight
[17:31] <Laney> andyrock: It is, yes, but I think there were plans to support donations which might use this
[17:31] <Laney> You should go to #gnome-software and discuss your changes there with hughsie I think
[17:31] <andyrock> kk
[17:38] <tjaalton> mesa uploaded
[17:38] <tseliot> tjaalton: yes, we can figure this out later. Thanks
[17:40] <tjaalton> right, I'll start by checking the cogl tests first
[17:42] <seb128> tjaalton, thx!
[18:09] <willcooke> calling it EOD, night all
[18:10] <oSoMoN> same here, it's been a productive day, see ya all tomorrow
[18:22] <Laney> o/ too
[19:48] <cyphermox> jbicha: is vanilla-gnome still something? because your tasksel changes from last cycle do not work (and aren't supposed to, as-is)
[20:04] <jbicha> cyphermox: it's a thing, what's not working?
[20:19] <kenvandine> vanilla-gnome reminds me of the old days of stracciatella-session to get a "mostly GNOME upstream" (vanilla) session
[20:19] <kenvandine> jaunty i think
[20:20] <kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Jaunty/StracciatellaSession
[20:20] <kenvandine> wow, that was created the very day I joined canonical :)
[20:21] <sarnold> nice :)
[20:37] <seb128> jbicha, debconf on gtk3 is landing it seems :)
[20:37] <seb128> shame that all the tests are getting screwed by that font conflict :/
[20:37] <seb128> update_excuses is a stack of red
[20:38] <seb128> I hope somebody has a magic retry-all script
[21:44] <andyrock> jbicha: hey hey
[21:44] <andyrock> building the deb of gnome-online-account I get several warnings treated as errors
[21:46] <andyrock> I just do "debuild -b"
[21:54] <jbicha> I use sbuild
[21:54] <jbicha> you could pastebin the build log?


[00:00] <DPic> anybody home?
[00:00] <DPic> the meeting should be starting now...
[00:08] <DPic> where is everyone?
[00:14] <tyche> I am here
[00:15] <beuno> I'm here too :)
[00:15] <cody-somerville> I'm here.
[00:16] <DPic> meeting is in #ubuntu-meeting
[00:31] <beuno> cody-somerville, #ubuntu-meeting :)
[03:16] <DPic> lol
[08:10] <juliux> jenda, ping
[08:10] <juliux> and morning btw
[15:02] <boredandblogging> beuno_: ping
[15:02] <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: ping
[15:03] <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, pong
[15:03] <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: let me run something by you
[15:03] <boredandblogging> gerry is getting the press release ready
[15:04] <boredandblogging> but he needs to make sure that if we give it to locos, it doesn't show up anwhere online (wikis, websites, etc)
[15:04] <boredandblogging> till the regular press releases
[15:05] <boredandblogging> or it could screw up some relationships
[15:05] <boredandblogging> is there a good way of handling this?
[15:06] <beuno_> boredandblogging, pinging them specifically on IRC and explaining it one by one is the best way I can think of
[15:06] <cody-somerville> Is the way we've done it in the past not worked?
[15:06] <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: how did we do it in the past?
[15:06] <boredandblogging> beuno_: ok, yeah, I was thinking of spamming the loco-contacts list, but thats obviously not the way to go
[15:10] <boredandblogging> yeah, I don't remember if this was done ahead of time before
[15:20] <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, I can't quite remember but I imagine the mailing list archive would have the information
[15:40] <boredandblogging> hmmm, don't see anything on the list, my search skills must be getting bad
[15:42] <cody-somerville> How soon do you need this information?
[15:42] <cody-somerville> I'll just IM him the next time he comes online or I'll call him if you need the information like right now.
[15:43] <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: ?
[15:44] <cody-somerville> Corey
[15:44] <cody-somerville> :)
[15:44] <boredandblogging> ah, right
[15:44] <boredandblogging> sooner the better
[15:44] <cody-somerville> jenda, ping.
[15:44] <boredandblogging> no need to call him
[15:44] <cody-somerville> jenda might remember.
[15:46] <cody-somerville> "
[15:46] <cody-somerville> VERY IMPORTANT - READ IF TRANSLATING THE PRESS RELEASE
[15:46] <cody-somerville> It is absolutely critical we respect embargo on this press release.
[15:46] <cody-somerville> This means that if you translate the press release, it cannot be sent
[15:46] <cody-somerville> to press agencies before Canonical releases the official English one.
[15:46] <cody-somerville> If we screw this one up, it is going to be much harder to get press
[15:46] <cody-somerville> releases before the actual release date."
[15:46] <cody-somerville> Thats all he said in his e-mail.
[15:47] <cody-somerville> I guess what we could do is send out an e-mail requesting loco teams which wish to translate the release please contact us for more details. We could then speak to them one on one and ensure that the NDA is understood.
[15:48] <boredandblogging> i was also thinking of making sure an Ubuntu member could take responsibility for each loco press release as well
[15:55]  * cody-somerville nods.
[16:00] <beuno> cody-somerville, we only need one LoCo per language
[16:00] <boredandblogging> thats very true
[16:00] <beuno> I can ping a german and a spanish one
[16:01] <beuno> and probably a french one
[16:01] <beuno> want to take care of the rest?  :p
[16:02] <boredandblogging> mdke for italian?
[16:02] <beuno> boredandblogging, if you can send it to me, I'll make sure I get them back translated
[16:02] <beuno> that seems reasonable too, yes
[16:02] <boredandblogging> beuno: yeah, I'll email it to you when I get it
[16:02] <beuno> of course, jenda will get it translated into chech
[16:03] <boredandblogging> anyone from the catalan team?
[16:03] <cody-somerville> I can get a friend to translate it into Canadian French.
[16:05] <boredandblogging> ok, I'll send out an email to loco-contacts, saying we need to one loco per lanugage (and some languages have already been covered)
[16:05] <boredandblogging> and we need absolutely need an Ubuntu member to be responsible for it
[16:07] <cody-somerville> And if they don't have a Ubuntu member in their loco team to please contact us.
[16:07] <boredandblogging> right
[16:39] <boredandblogging> beuno, cody-somerville: you guys have mail
[16:39]  * cody-somerville goes to check.
[17:03] <beuno> boredandblogging, got it, I'll ping you back with news
[17:04] <boredandblogging> beuno: cool, thanks


[19:53] <johnc4510> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter #179 is now available
[19:53] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue179


  Happy Thursday, and happy Organise Your Home Day! 😃
[09:37] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwIe_sjKeAY
[10:08] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> i did play with sidekick back in the 80s.... :-)
[10:32] <foobarry> how can i take snapshots in virtualbox?
[10:32] <foobarry> Version 5.0.12 r104815
[10:32] <SuperMatt> should just be doable
[10:32] <foobarry> ah, need to open the console window things
[10:32] <SuperMatt> I don't have vbox in front of me, so I can't tell you for sure
[10:32] <foobarry> i was trying right mouse click on machine
[10:32] <SuperMatt> aha
[10:32] <foobarry> got it
[10:33] <foobarry> there's also a snapshots tab in the corner
[10:33] <foobarry> so ugly...
[10:33] <foobarry> my colleauge has never heard of time bandits :-|
[10:34] <SuperMatt> just use gnome-boxes
[10:35] <foobarry> not on gnome
[10:36] <foobarry> will have a lok though
[10:51] <davmor2> foobarry: show them the wonders of it
[11:54] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:56] <zmoylan-pi> bright, sunny, flippin' freezing
[11:57] <davmor2> foobarry: why screenshot just vbox when you can just screenshot the window :)
[12:09] <foobarry> :-|
[13:01] <Seeker`> :( Alan Rickman
[13:03] <diddledan> Seeker`: :-o
[13:04] <diddledan> this has been a bad week for celebs
[13:07] <foobarry> did he die today?
[13:07] <diddledan> aye
[13:07] <diddledan> news just breaking by the looks
[13:07] <foobarry> same day as my dad
[13:07] <foobarry> also my sons birthday :S
[13:16] <popey> :(
[13:24] <MooDoo> tis a crappy week
[13:24] <foobarry> did anyone else die besides bowie?
[13:24] <foobarry> (well known ppl)
[13:24] <Myrtti> Lemmy's Funeral
[13:25] <foobarry> ah ok
[13:30] <MooDoo> so that's lemmy, bowie and rickman :(
[14:09] <davmor2> one of the best bad guys ever :(
[14:16] <davmor2> I'm gonna carve his heart out with a SPOON! why a spoon cousin.... Because it will hurt more!
[14:22] <MooDoo> lol ha ha ha
[14:48] <diddledan> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2016/01/14/games-will-make-you-more-violent-comic/
[14:48] <diddledan> am I the only person who removes google analytics query strings from the end of urls?
[14:49] <popey> nope
[14:49] <popey> i do too
[14:50] <awilkins> I also do that
[14:59] <popey> I also remove amazon tags :S
[15:06] <awilkins> Because it's DULL you idiot... I'll   *hurt more*.
[15:07]  * awilkins is fixing an Alan Rickman quote from a half hour ago  </raymondbabbit>
[15:13] <MooDoo> awilkins: it'll ?
[15:19] <MooDoo> http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160114142733 - ssh problems :)
[15:23]  * awilkins just got embarrassed by evince
[15:24] <awilkins> Damn thing pretends it's filling in PDF forms
[15:24] <awilkins> Then you save them and post them on and they don't have any of your new stuff in them
[15:24] <awilkins> I guess I should have known
[15:24] <awilkins> It doesn't do annotations in a way that's compatible with Adobe Reader either
[15:25] <diddledan> \o/
[15:30] <awilkins> If you open them yourself - your edits are there
[15:30] <awilkins> Just opened same file on Windows / Adobe Reader and, darn, it's not got my stuff in it.
[15:30] <awilkins> Which is a shame because the guys I sent the form to also did that
[16:52] <Azelphur> https://dpaste.de/mGLr This doesn't look good :(
[17:04] <diddledan> Azelphur: talk with daftykins. if your disk isn't broken yet, a quick chat with him will result in the otherwise :-p
[17:04] <Azelphur> haha
[17:30] <Marian92_> Hello, can anyone help me? I need to repair my grub, and I'm stucked
[17:57] <apt-get-moo> update-grub ?
[17:57] <MooDoo> evening all
[19:33] <diddledan> Guest69011: you lost your cow-powers
[20:06] <zmoylan-pi> arrived lactate to the party? :-)
[20:51] <diddledan> Guest51068: you still haven't regained your super cow powers
[21:00] <zmoylan-pi> they'll just have to give it an udder try...