[01:12] <Teranet> question can you move in juju a container from 1 machine to the next via command line by chance ?
[01:13] <Budgie^Smore> so I am about to put a PoC using Juju onto AWS and am trying to figure out what the min instance size should be?
[02:18] <marcoceppi_> Budgie^Smore: t2.medium is pretty good for most things, depends on the owrkload
[02:19] <Budgie^Smore> well I was just going to put the juju controller on it and maybe a kubernete-master node
[02:20] <Budgie^Smore> it is probably only going to manage a few other slave nodes
[02:26] <marcoceppi_> Budgie^Smore: so, t2.medium should be okay for controller, m3.medium might be more stable
[02:27] <marcoceppi_> as for kubernetes-master / worker the master doesn't need too much if you're going to be doing a small number of worker nodes. The workers are really up to you depending on how many continaers you want to pack in per node
[02:30] <Budgie^Smore> yeah I am looking at doing c4.4xlarge or c4.8xlarge for the slaves
[02:31] <Budgie^Smore> I should be able to put the master on the same instance as the juju controller right/
[02:31] <Budgie^Smore> ?
[03:57] <Budgie^Smore> lol managed to blue screen the work laptop! new windows 10!
[06:53] <Budgie^Smore> is there a way for models to share machines?
[07:43] <Budgie^Smore> hey marcoceppi_ just came across your name on a GitHub "issue" in relation to useing AWS ELB as a substitue for kubeapi-load-balancer, defintely would get thumbs up from for that :)
[08:32] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world
[12:36] <fang64> I have been trying to deploy 10 nodes with Juju/MAAS and I've gotten to the point where I bootstrap juju onto MAAS as a cloud, but it doesn't indicate machine status when HA is enabled is this normal?
[12:38] <marcoceppi_> fang64: could you elaborate on machine status?
[12:39] <fang64> marcoceppi: when I type juju machines it indicates ha status is 1/3
[12:39] <fang64> this is after I've enabled ha, and the hosts are done being deployed.
[12:40] <fang64> marcoceppi: I mean controllers sorry, wrong command
[12:41] <fang64> it does show the controller has machines 3 but HA is yellow with 1/3
[12:42] <fang64> I assume it means high availability isn't working? because it's not indicating 3/3? maybe it's my lack of understanding
[12:44] <fang64> marcoceppi_: this is what I see, http://i.imgur.com/onIDdtL.png
[12:46] <rick_h> fang64: yes, it should work its way to 3/3 as HA kicks in and the db is replicated/etc
[12:46] <fang64> it's been a day
[12:46] <fang64> I don't think it takes that long for ha to enable?
[12:46] <rick_h> fang64: k, so something is up. You'll have to check the debug-log or at this point the logs on the machines
[12:47] <rick_h> fang64: no, definitely not
[12:47] <fang64> ok, so it's broken
[12:47] <fang64> I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding,.
[12:47] <rick_h> no, definitely not. That's why it shows yellow in that you've asked for 3 controller nodes in HA, but only have one functioning
[12:48] <fang64> alright well I'll take a look, really I am trying to get to a point where I can deploy openstack, but I kept running into issues with bootstrap I suspect I have some network issues.
[12:48] <rick_h> fang64: oh, ok.
[12:50] <fang64> I don't know if anyone can answer this question, if I am deploying to MAAS as I am now, is juju using lxc containers or is it just installing the charms to physical hosts?
[12:50] <rick_h> fang64: so it depends on how you're installing
[12:51] <fang64> I just created maas as a cloud
[12:51] <rick_h> fang64: the bundles that the openstack folks use use lxd containers on the physical hosts to help spread things out
[12:51] <fang64> in juju and then told it to bootstrap
[12:51] <rick_h> fang64: so nothing there is lxd centric
[12:51] <fang64> ah ok
[12:51] <rick_h> fang64: you'll see in the bundle things getting told to go to 0:lxd or the like
[12:52] <rick_h> fang64: to help colocate the openstack services on deploy, but until you do that nothing is lxd unless told to be
[12:52] <fang64> ok, so in my case with juju bootstrap as it stands now it's provisioning the hosts as the failover
[12:52] <fang64> no containers being used to do that?
[12:52] <rick_h> so juju boostrap will go ask MAAS for one node, download the jujud binary to it, and start the service
[12:53] <rick_h> fang64: no, no containers being used to do that
[12:53] <fang64> ah ok, that's something I didn't understand initially when I looked at this, so juju is running on the host os, and when I enabled ha it grabbed 2 more
[12:53] <rick_h> fang64: exactly
[12:54] <rick_h> fang64: to have HA you need three machines so that you're not going to fall over if a disk dies/etc
[12:54] <fang64> that makes more sense, I was just a little confused what it's actually doing with MAAS
[12:55] <fang64> Another thing I was curious about which is responsible for networking configuration? Juju or MAAS?
[12:55] <fang64> or is it a combination of both, or it depends on what bundle or charm you are using?
[12:57] <fang64> rick_h: I appreciate the help, I'm going to try and figure out what's borked on my networking
[13:10] <anrah> Is there a way to react when controller losts connection to agent?
[13:11] <anrah> for example now it says: agent lost, see 'juju show-status-log my-instance/3'
[13:23] <stub> anrah: If it doesn't recover, I think it means either your network is blocked between the controller and that unit, or one or more jujud agents has crashed and you have a Juju bug to deal with
[13:24] <stub> anrah: If you find a dead juju service, you can try restarting it to see if sorts itself out.
[13:25] <anrah> I mean that if i have a case where the server dies for reason X
[13:25] <anrah> meaning some sort of selfhealing that juju would spin up replacament unit
[13:26] <anrah> I think that requires external monitoring and some magic with jujulib for python..
[13:27] <stub> Yes. I don't think juju ever spins up new units without user input.
[13:29] <stub> If you run juju recursively, you can even charm that :) I think some people do it for autoscaling.
[13:31] <stub> (probably easier now with 2.0 - you just need your monitoring charm given credentials for the main controller and it can administer itself and all the other models)
[13:31] <tvansteenburgh> anrah: there's a basic autoscale/autoheal demo here: https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/blob/autoscaler/examples/autoscale.py
[13:32] <tvansteenburgh> you could extend it to deal with more healing conditions
[13:32] <anrah> stub: Yeah, I have build something like that for autoscaling
[13:33] <anrah> next step is to make it work with autohealing
[13:34] <stub> tvansteenburgh: Do you know if there is a best practice to adding unit tests to layers that don't mess up the main charm's tests?
[13:35] <tvansteenburgh> stub: sorry, i dunno
[13:36] <stub> I think I either need to exlude them from charm build, or stick them in a non-standard directory
[15:20] <beisner> stub, should be able to exclude unit/tests/file-by-name iirc
[15:20] <beisner> or some such
[17:12] <Mmike> Hi, lads. How do I use 'Login wih USSO' in juju2's gui? I bootstraped 2,0 environment, did 'juju gui --show-credentials', opened the juju-gui URL in the browser, and when I click on 'Login with USSO' i get 'authentication failed: no credentials provided'
[17:13] <Mmike> i am logged within ubuntu single-sign-on
[17:13] <Mmike> I am also logged into charmstore
[17:13] <lazyPower> Mmike thats a great question.
[17:14] <lazyPower> rick_h - is there any feedback/guidance here re USSO login support? or who should i be pinging to find out for mmike?
[17:14] <rick_h> Mmike: hmm, that's only available if it's configured to use an external idenity provider.
[17:15] <rick_h> Mmike: not useful for most cases unless you've bootstrapped that way
[17:15] <Mmike> rick_h: oh
[17:15] <rick_h> Mmike: the --show-credentials should show you the username/password ot use in the gui
[17:15] <Mmike> rick_h: yup, those work, I just wanted to see how 'USSO' would work
[17:15] <rick_h> Mmike: honestly, I think that button should be hidden unless the controller supports it.
[17:15] <rick_h> Mmike: I'll bring it up with the team
[17:15] <Mmike> rick_h: that was my thinking too!
[17:16] <Mmike> rick_h: how do I bootstrap with external identity provider configured?
[17:16] <Mmike> that's a controller option, or?
[17:16] <rick_h> Mmike: it's a config. I'll have to see if I can find it sec
[17:17] <Mmike> thnx!
[17:17] <rick_h> Mmike: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2016-September/007843.html
[17:17] <rick_h> Mmike: beware "here be dragons" as it works but has side effects and such
[17:17] <rick_h> Mmike: we were just working on things like show-model listing users with access/etc this morning
[17:18] <rick_h> Mmike: so it's there but there's some things that it causes to act a bit wonky
[17:18] <Mmike> I see
[17:18] <Mmike> rick_h: thank you for that info
[17:18] <rick_h> Mmike: np, hope that helps
[17:18] <lazyPower> thanks rick_h
[17:18] <Mmike> I'm asking because on https://blog.jujugui.org/ it's mentioned that if you log in with sso you get additinoal options, etc...
[17:18] <Mmike> so I was wondering how to get there
[17:19] <Mmike> but, yea - disabling that button if controller doesn't support it would be the excellent
[17:19] <rick_h> Mmike: what additional options?
[17:19]  * rick_h skims
[17:20] <rick_h> Mmike: not sure I can think of any additional options you get tbh
[17:20] <rick_h> it's the same juju/gui/etc
[17:21] <Mmike> rick_h: the video says that 'you can log in into controller using sso, and then you get additional canvas to select models, etc, etc'
[17:21] <rick_h> Mmike: oh hmm, will have to watch that I guess.
[17:21] <rick_h> Mmike: I mean it just shows models you have access to/etc
[17:23] <Mmike> rick_h: yup, maybe the video is confusing or giving information that's specific for a particular type of a controller
[17:25] <aisrael> What's the bash equivalent of charmhelper.config's .changed?
[17:34] <cory_fu> aisrael: You using reactive?  There is a state set that you can check with `charms.reactive is_state config.changed.foo`
[17:34] <cory_fu> aisrael: I don't know if there's a CLI for the actual method on Config.changed
[17:39] <aisrael> cory_fu, Yeah, this is a pure-bash charm, but I'm going to convert it to a layer, I think
[17:40] <Zic> lazyPower: (I prefer IRC over Slack :D) the last time you said to me that Canonical Kubernetes was not compatible with Helm, is that so?
[17:41] <Zic> lazyPower: about my issue with Vitess posted in their Slack, the guys from Vitess pointed me to https://github.com/youtube/vitess/tree/master/helm/vitess (work-in-progress)
[17:41] <Zic> it's a Helm package :s
[17:41] <Zic> help charts* don't know the right word :)
[17:41] <lazyPower> Zic  - we certainly do support helm, but there is a known issue with teh current incantation of the kube-api-loadbalancer
[17:42] <lazyPower> the supported work around is to either update or clone your kubeconfig and point it directly at one of your kubernetes-master units, and expose the kubernetes master unit. Proxying through the master load balancer will cause you heartburn and trigger false positive failures with helm.
[17:42] <Zic> oh, I can do that
[17:42] <lazyPower> Zic - we have an open PR to actually put that in the upstream docs for the CDK
[17:43] <lazyPower> thanks to SaMnCo for that submission *hattip*
[17:43] <Zic> I already access directly to my kubernetes-master on my LAN
[17:43] <Zic> and even the kube-api-loadbalancer is exposed only on LAN
[17:43] <lazyPower> ok, if you're already pointing directly at your master, you should be g2g
[17:43] <Zic> so I just need to upgrade my kubeconfig
[17:43] <lazyPower> and if thats not the case, i want all your bugs and feedback around this so we can triage accordingly
[17:43] <Zic> hehe :D
[17:43] <lazyPower> yep, just point kubeconfig at the correct port/ip for a master and you should be g2g
[17:44] <lazyPower> Zic - not sure if you saw but we just landed *everything* upstream yesterday around 7pm CST
[17:45] <lazyPower> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/40324
[17:45] <Zic> lazyPower: as my Canonical Kubernetes cluster runs perfectly fine, I throw all of my ninja-power to make Vitess works in K8s... except I discovered today that their config (used in their official deployment guide) is not resiliant at all \o/
[17:46] <Zic> so... no, I didn't see anything from tech-world except my rage and tears with Vitess this last 2 days :)
[17:46] <Zic> but noted, I will take a look )
[17:46] <lazyPower> well, i'm sorry to hear about the tears, but its awesome to hear that we are empowering you
[17:46] <lazyPower> makes my own day to day tears worth while :)
[17:46] <Zic> huhu :)
[17:48] <Zic> simply puts: canonical-kubernetes does the job perfectly, and when I saw some guys raging against kubeadm which can't do the same, or even try to build K8s from scratch, I thank Juju :)
[17:48] <Zic> building K8s from scratch is very instructive anyway
[17:48] <Zic> but I need a tool to industrialize it in my company
[17:49] <lazyPower> I appreciate that feedback, we've been cycling hard to remove the barrier to going to prod with kubernetes
[17:49] <Zic> that's for the right part o/
[17:49] <lazyPower> so much so that we're going hard in the paint, my nice grey paintjob has streaks of red and white all up and down the side
[17:49] <Zic> for the wrong part (and that's totally offtopic here): Vitess is not ready for production-grade experience at this time
[17:49] <Zic> it will need some tricks to be
[17:49] <Zic> the good news is that this K8s cluster is not entirely dedicated to Vitess :p
[17:50] <lazyPower> we're looking to leave beta soon
[17:50] <lazyPower> so, be prepared for bulletproofing in the coming iterations
[17:50] <lazyPower> Zic - did you perhaps update to 1.5.2 with last weeks update?
[17:51] <Zic> my main coming-feature is haproxy replacing nginx in kube-api-loadbalncer :)
[17:51] <lazyPower> we just had a brief meeting about that this morining, we're looking to do layer 4 routing instead of layer7 via nginx. so that haproxy replacement cant come soon enough
[17:51] <Zic> nope, I think I'm on 1.5.1 for now, I didn't have the time to upgrade with my Vitess problems :(
[17:51] <lazyPower> Ack. when you do i'm highly interested in a) which approach you took to do the upgrade and b) how that experience went for you
[17:52] <Zic> lazyPower: layer 4 is OK also, in fact it's just the possibility to make a master offline easily which I need
[17:52] <lazyPower> so capturing any feedback for us would be highly useful in that context
[17:52] <Zic> (without touching the nginx vhost)
[17:52] <lazyPower> thats our goal, to not have the master exposed at all, so you can isolate it in some network segment and sleep easy
[17:54] <Zic> to describe our infra for now : I'm using 3 master, 5 etcd, 1 kube-api-loadbalancer (with easyrsa charms also on it), 6 physical workers, 3 EC2 AWS instances, 2 DRBD filers for PV with NFS, all in private-LAN
[17:54] <Zic> to expose publicly, I set up a public haproxy which have Ingress as backend
[17:54] <Zic> (3 haproxy, with a heartbeat VIP)
[17:54] <lazyPower> oh hey thats a nice setup
[17:54]  * lazyPower nods
[17:55] <lazyPower> i also see you took etcd durability very serious and gave it proper fault tolerant pooling
[17:55] <Zic> yes, as you advice me the first time I came here :)
[17:55] <lazyPower> :D
[17:55] <Zic> (was for the first pizza i owe you :p)
[17:56] <Zic> but yeah, I don't use public Ingress because if I bring-up a public ethernet interface on my kubernetes-worker, all my NodePort will be exposed, as K8s does not have a setting like "NodePort only bind on private address"
[17:56] <Zic> so I prefered to put public LB in front of Ingress and NodePorts
[17:56] <lazyPower> right
[17:56] <lazyPower> i think there was discussion on the k8s project around that
[17:56] <lazyPower> NodePort on Interface
[17:56] <lazyPower> but i haven't been tracking that too closely, and it may have been tabled
[17:57] <Zic> yes, I saw an issue on GitHub but not so much news since 2015
[17:58] <lazyPower> yeah, that sounds about right
[17:58] <lazyPower> might be worth poking it to see if there can be some renewed interest around it
[17:59] <Zic> the only negative effect of that is that our customer had full capability with kubectl to expose his service privately through Ingress and NodePorts
[17:59] <Zic> but for public parts, it's HAProxy VMs wich is fully managed through Puppet
[18:00] <lazyPower> so, we're going to augment ingress with configmaps, which should make it more durable for you
[18:00] <Zic> so our customer needs to fill at ticket for every public expose
[18:00] <lazyPower> as in, you can expose interesting things like ssh services for a private gogs instance
[18:00] <Zic> (not so important as he only expose 80 and 443, and we do the ssl offloading with a wildcard cert)
[18:00] <lazyPower> and it'll proxy that ssh connection through the ingress controller
[18:00] <Zic> cool :)
[18:00] <lazyPower> as it stands today we're only concerned with web traffic on that ingress controller
[18:00] <Zic> yep
[18:00] <lazyPower> but we do realize and understand there is another class of workloads that need to be supported
[18:00] <Zic> I use NodePorts for all other concerns
[18:01] <lazyPower> and its a bit slower going but i'm tracking that
[18:01] <lazyPower> yeah
[18:01] <lazyPower> i do the same in my homelab
[18:01] <Zic> but nos as practicle as Ingress
[18:01] <Zic> practical*
[18:02] <lazyPower> yep
[18:02] <Zic> I discovered something like https://traefik.io/ also
[18:02] <lazyPower> there's been some effort around an haproxy ingress controller as well
[18:02] <lazyPower> i've used traefik, its great
[18:02] <lazyPower> i'm not positive that its been updated withs ocket support yet though
[18:02] <Zic> which can enpower my customer for public exposing
[18:02] <lazyPower> are you aware if they added that in recent revisions?
[18:02] <Zic> no not at all, I'm at the point of just reading their homepage :D
[18:02] <lazyPower> i'd like to include that in a workloads repository so end users can mix/match their ingress controllers via namespace
[18:03] <lazyPower> eg: namespace=customer  you get the default nginx controller,    namespace=alpha1  - you launch and use a traefik ingress controller until you're ready to promote to namespace=customer
[18:04] <lazyPower> and can move all that stuff with it, its just kind of a nice to have, and would be great to be tuneable with some curated manifests
[18:04] <lazyPower> but thats all pie in the sky at this time, i haven't had time to dedicate to it
[18:05] <Zic> I'm planning to finish this resilient Vitess cluster, upgrading to K8s 1.5.2 through Juju and after that, poweroff/rebooting randomly all the parts :D
[18:05] <SaMnCo> @lazyPower pleasure :) just the first of (I hope) a long list
[18:06] <SaMnCo> @Zic, let me know if you have issues around helm
[18:06] <Zic> if all stay OK (I already did some tests :p) I will owe you 3 pizzas total
[18:06] <Zic> if all is wrong, I will jump through the window of the ground-floor
[18:06] <Zic> (and then, debug :p)
[18:06] <SaMnCo> also, if you are looking into scaling SQL, we have a Charm Partner partner (ScaleDB) who does just that
[18:07] <SaMnCo> not sure they have a lot of k8s stuff, but still worth looking at.
[18:08] <Zic> noted :)
[18:08] <SaMnCo> and, last but not  least, I'm trying to get good low level sysadmin feedback on Juju usage to document
[18:09] <SaMnCo> so I'd be happy to discuss your XP, in French or English ;)
[18:13] <Teranet> anyone here who knows about ceph a bit how to create a directory without creating a drive mount point : http://paste.ubuntu.com/23864768/
[18:14] <Teranet> I try to get ceph-disk for some reason push a drive creation but I do want only a directory been done
[18:17] <lazyPower> ping cholcombe and icey  ^
[18:19] <icey> Teranet: can you share a bundle that you're using to deploy that? from the bit of logs, it looks like it _should_ just work so would be a bug
[18:20] <Teranet> it's not a bug I was looking now on the container and I do see /srv/osd is created and has data already in it
[18:20] <Teranet> I am thinking it's looking still for an empty one
[18:31] <Teranet> ok I am deploying a bigger OS.yaml which I cutom build already in a lot of ways
[18:31] <Teranet> want me to share the hole OS.yaml ?
[18:36] <icey> ah Teranet, ceph-osd doesan't behave too well inside of a container
[18:37] <Teranet> so I should redploy it outside of the container ?
[18:38] <Teranet> or can I just do redeploy the 3 ceph-osd somehow to the boxes instead of containers ?
[18:39] <jrwren> what is wrong with ceph-osd in a container? if your lxc/lxd is in zfs, make sure to set use-direct-io: false and don't expect /dev osd-devices to work. Other than that it seems to work for me for dev/test.
[18:41] <jrwren> Teranet: is your lxd zfs or btrfs backed?
[18:42] <jrwren> Teranet: I get those errors with zfs backed container and the default use-direct-io value. Set the use-direct-io to false for the ceph-osd charm.
[18:44] <icey> jrwren: I suppose that's relevant too; I wouldn't run ceph-osd inside of a container unless it _is_ just for testing
[18:45] <Teranet> let me doublecheck
[18:54] <Teranet> how can I check that if it's zfs again ?
[18:54] <Teranet> fdisk don't help much there
[18:56] <jcastro> lxc info | grep storage
[18:56] <jcastro> should tell you
[18:57] <Teranet> zfs
[19:02] <Teranet> ok so if I put them now to the host how can I move them ?
[19:04] <Teranet> or do I need to kill those 3 containers with ceph-osd on it first and than redeploy them ?
[19:06] <jrwren> Teranet: probably, yes, or you could set the config, check in /etc/ceph for 'journal dio = false'
[19:17] <bdx> concerning the hosted controller
[19:17] <bdx> I don't seem to be able to connect to a model on the hosted controller via libjuju
[19:17] <bdx> see http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865066/
[19:18] <bdx> ^ succeeds when ran against my own controller, but fails when ran against the hosted controller
[19:18] <bdx> tvansteenburgh
[19:18] <bdx> ^^
[19:18] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: have you tried using libjuju against the hosted controller?
[19:19] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: yeah. it *can* work, but it relies on valid macaroons existing on the host
[19:20] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: do you have juju cli installed on the host?
[19:21] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: yea, does the fact that juju cli can access the model validate that the macaroons are valid?
[19:21] <tvansteenburgh> yeah
[19:22] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: can you deploy to the model with the cli?
[19:22] <tvansteenburgh> if you can, then libjuju should work too
[19:22] <jcastro> heya Zic
[19:22] <jcastro> we should find time this week or next to have you sync with the team in a hangout, would love to get a laundry list of feedback from you
[19:22] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: this is a limitation of libjuju until we add support for obtaining and discharging macaroons
[19:24] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: I run that script ^ against a lxd controller and it does not error, then I switch controllers via `juju switch jujucharms.com` following which select one of my models, and run the script again and it fails
[19:25] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: is there a traceback?
[19:25] <bdx> due to auth errors, see http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865120/
[19:27] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: are you logged in, i.e. juju login
[19:27] <bdx> yea
[19:28] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865139/
[19:28] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: do you have a ~/.go-cookies file?
[19:28] <bdx> yeah ... want me to squash it and try again?
[19:29] <tvansteenburgh> not yet
[19:31] <stormmore> so I just created a controller and ran "juju ssh -m controller 0". while it appears that it is logged in, it doesn't give me a prompt, and hitting enter gives me "-bash: line 1: $'\r': command not found". any ideas what is going on?
[19:32] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: http://pythonhosted.org/juju/narrative/model.html#connecting-with-macaroon-authentication
[19:36] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: YES! that did it
[19:36] <lazyPower> stormmore - that's most definiately a bug, but i'm not certain what happened
[19:36] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: thank you
[19:37] <icey> stormmore: are you on windows?
[19:37] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: \o/ np
[19:37] <stormmore> lazyPower I came across https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1468752 so you are right it is bug :)
[19:37] <stormmore> icey yes
[19:37] <lazyPower> oo fantastic find
[19:37] <lazyPower> bummer that its a bug, but glad its not pioneering territory
[19:37] <icey> stormmore: yeah, that was the bug I was curious about :)
[19:45] <stormmore> so what its telling me is that this is a stupid Windows bug without a workaround but the fix is in 2.2 which is currently in alpha!
[19:47] <stormmore> I am going to see if I can install and bootstrap from bash / Ubuntu on Windows 10
[19:50] <stormmore> that is if I can figure out how to get it upgrade to Xenial
[20:10] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: I may have been a bit premature in my rejoice
[20:10] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: I'm getting "Fatal error on SSL transport" now ...
[20:12] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: that's almost always a side effect of another problem, got a traceback?
[20:12] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: my simple script http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865377/
[20:12] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: traceback <- http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865383/
[20:16] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: can you set logging level to DEBUG and paste the full output?
[20:16] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865408/
[20:18] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: did you change line 41 or 43?
[20:18] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: do you think I need to be supplying a 'cacert'?
[20:18] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: both
[20:20] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: yeah, trying sending the cert
[20:20] <tvansteenburgh> i'm not convinced that's the problem but it won't hurt
[20:21] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865441/
[20:21] <bdx> sad
[20:21] <tvansteenburgh> heh
[20:22] <tvansteenburgh> nevermind!
[20:22] <vmorris> any word on this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1614364
[20:27] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: does libjuju use the asyncio ssl protocol for ssl connections?
[20:29] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: no
[20:29] <tvansteenburgh> well it might indirectly
[20:30] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: this https://github.com/python/asyncio/blob/master/asyncio/sslproto.py
[20:30] <tvansteenburgh> no
[20:30] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: can you replicate this on your end?
[20:31] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: not yet. it works for me. still looking
[20:40] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: change line 41 to: logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG)
[20:40] <tvansteenburgh> then paste me the full output
[20:41] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: also, print the value of your model_uuid to make sure it's actually set
[20:41] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: I'm setting MODEL_UUID inline in my testing
[20:42] <tvansteenburgh> ok i thought you were getting it from the env
[20:46] <bdx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865573/
[20:46] <bdx> thats better
[20:48] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: yeah, so that means whatever macaroons you have locally aren't sufficient
[20:51] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: which is strange since you can run juju status on the model
[20:57] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: I launch a fresh xenial container `lxc launch ubuntu:16.04 libjujutest`, exec in, `su ubuntu`,  install juju, libjuju, asyncio via `sudo apt install juju python3-pip && sudo -H pip3 install juju asyncio`, run the script and get the error
[20:58] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: should the jujuclient version <-> juju controller version mismatch have anything to do with this?
[21:00] <tvansteenburgh1> bdx: when using macaroon auth (shared controller), libjuju can currently only connect if there valid macaroons in ~/.go-cookies already
[21:00] <bdx> * login to the controller:model via juju cli, then run the script and still get the error
[21:00] <bdx> correction
[21:00] <bdx> my bad
[21:00] <bdx> I am logging in first
[21:02] <tvansteenburgh1> bdx: i'm trying to figure out what's different. when i run your script against jimm, it works. on every model i try
[21:02] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: try `juju deploy ubuntu`, then run your script
[21:06] <stormmore> I keep getting "ERROR cannot update credentials for aws: timeout acquiring mutex" when trying add credentials or change the default aws region :-/
[21:07] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: deployed ubuntu, no change, except that now the script will error every other try, and just hangs on 50% it seems ... when I Ctrl+C out of what seems to be a hang, I get this http://paste.ubuntu.com/23865667/
[21:07] <bdx> which has an interesting error at the bottom "juju.errors.JujuAPIError: unknown version (1) of interface "Client""
[21:08] <tvansteenburgh> yeah
[21:16] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: my models are 2.0.1, yours are <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:17] <tvansteenburgh> that shouldn't matter, but...
[21:18] <tvansteenburgh> nope, works for me on <IP_ADDRESS> too
[21:31] <mskalka> anyone familiar with the openstack base bundle available to answer a few questions?
[22:00] <stormmore> looks like I am going to just spin up an Ubuntu VM since Bash on Windows has problems with mutex when trying to do stuff with juju and the windows version of juju has problems with ssh to the controller
[22:14] <zeestrat> mskalka: What's up? I've got some minutes before EOD.
[22:15] <zeestrat> mskalka: If no one is around here, make sure to check out #openstack-charms
[22:19] <mskalka> zeestrat: thanks for the reply. I'm running into an odd issue deploying openstack on aws. It looks like the deployment is hung up cinder and glance connecting to the mysql db
[22:20] <mskalka> I had it working last week just as a POC after a few tweaks to where it landed the charms (the ceph-mon charms did not like being in lxd for example) but never ran into this issue
[22:25] <zeestrat> mskalka: Hmmm. Unfortunately I only have experience with deploying it to MAAS on bare metal so I won't probably be too helpful. Ping the guys in #openstack-charms with the output of "juju status --output yaml" and perhaps some logs.
[22:25] <mskalka> zeestrat: No worries! Thanks for the help, I'll ping #openstack-charms tomorrow morning
[22:26] <zeestrat> Cool. I think most of them are on a EMEA timezone.
[22:27] <mskalka> copy, thanks
[23:07] <Teranet> do we have an JUJU OPENSTACK guys here ? I am looking for some logging from OpenStack but now since it's all on JUJU / MAAS not sure where it would be looging too for neutron
[23:43] <marcoceppi_> Teranet: #openstack-charms channel might be best


[14:45] <jussi> cjohnston: you need to add a few trusted people as ops - at least 3 or so more.
[14:46] <jussi> other than that, looks good.
[14:46]  * cjohnston throws something at jussi
[14:46] <jussi> awww
[14:47]  * jussi hopes that something is yummy
[14:47] <cjohnston> lol
[14:47] <cjohnston> a brick?
[14:50] <bwinton> A chocolate brick?
[14:50] <cjohnston> doubtful
[14:52] <jussi> hehe


[07:02]  * duflu high fives Saviq for fixing the app drawer icons
[07:14] <Saviq> duflu, you're welcome, I was sure it's actually per design, apparently was a bad copy/paste
[07:14] <duflu> Saviq: Now.. about those text labels...
[07:14] <Saviq> that actually is per design ;)
[07:15] <duflu> Perhaps, but does the design explicitly say you can't add tooltips?
[07:16] <Saviq> ah you mean labels in app drawer
[07:16] <Saviq> thought you meant window titles
[07:16] <Saviq> yes we'll add tooltips in the drawer for sure


[02:25] <doomlord> does ubuntu-arm run on N10
[02:37] <doomlord> will ubuntu tablet have an option to bring up a virtualkeyboard & mouse to run traditional gnu-linux software without a hardware keyboard
[05:21] <m4n1sh> xnox: ping
[06:26] <pitti> Good morning
[08:03] <jibel> good morning
[08:26] <m4n1sh> anyone here who can review my software sources merge request?
[09:11]  * Sweetsha1k moves to left
[09:11]  * Sweetsha1k moves to the right
[09:11]  * Sweetsha1k waves his hands like he just dont care!
[09:15] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:15] <pitti> bonjour seb128, quoi de neuf?
[09:16] <seb128> pitti, salut, on a eu de la pluie à Londres ! et toi ?
[09:16] <xnox> m4n1sh: hola.
[09:18] <m4n1sh> xnox: was asking someone for reviewing my merge req
[09:18] <m4n1sh> this one
[09:18] <m4n1sh> https://code.launchpad.net/~manishsinha/software-properties/fix-874766-updates-tab-failed-auth/+merge/148924
[09:18] <pitti> seb128: surprise! il neige encore ici
[09:18] <pitti> desrt: want me to sponsor the dia patch into Ubuntu at least, so that it works again?
[09:18] <seb128> pitti, il neigeait chez moi aussi la semaine dernière
[09:19] <Sweetsha1k> pitti: Die eigentliche Frage ist doch warum Du nicht in London bist. Desktop braucht dich! ;)
[09:20] <seb128> Sweetsha1k, ELANGUAGE
[09:20] <pitti> Sweetsha1k: je ne suis pas dans l'equipe de bureau plus :)
[09:20] <desrt> pitti: sure.  might also help to convince upstream if we can show that it closes the bug on our side
[09:20] <desrt> please test it though....
[09:21] <pitti> desrt: bien sûr
[09:21] <desrt> it fixed the issue for me, but for some reason, after using the patch, unpatched dia was also fixed :)
[09:21] <desrt> i think the crash depends on configuration (as mentioned in the bug)
[09:21] <pitti> I do get the crash here still
[09:21] <pitti> even with the fixed pygobject-2
[09:21] <desrt> unpatched, i hope
[09:22] <desrt> the dia issue is unrelated to pygobject
[09:22] <pitti> yes, with plain 0.97.2-8
[09:22] <pitti> yes, I know; but it's a possible variable what chagned for you since yesterday
[09:22] <desrt> ah... no
[09:22] <desrt> i didn't upgrade between my testing :)
[09:23] <desrt> you know.... i start to like benjamin's idea about asserts and criticals
[09:23] <pitti> desrt: what really confuses me is that gnome bug 694025 says "12.10"
[09:23] <desrt> people get angry when we break stuff with asserts
[09:23] <desrt> nobody reads criticals
[09:23] <pitti> desrt: that didn't even have that new glib yet !?
[09:23] <desrt> so we should have critical() + sleep(5)
[09:23] <ubot2> Gnome bug 694025 in general "Dia crashes immediately upon start (0.97 & 0.98) in (k|x)ubuntu 12.10" [Critical,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694025
[09:23] <desrt> pitti: ya... i think this is a mistake.  they _must_ be on raring
[09:23] <desrt> because the message in the stderr that they paste was never in glib before this point
[09:24] <desrt> unless they had jhbuild or something
[09:26] <pitti> desrt: uh, that doesn't apply very cleanly to our version; I'll go unfuzz it
[09:26] <pitti> looks like a whole bunch of code doesn't exist there yet
[09:29] <Sweetshark> seb128: Ill try esperanto next time ;)
[09:30] <seb128> Sweetshark, don't get desrt started on that
[09:32] <desrt> pitti: interesting.
[09:32] <pitti> desrt: test building now, I'll see how it goes
[09:32] <desrt> ĉu iu diris 'esperanto'?
[09:32] <seb128> Sweetshark, see what you did!
[09:33] <desrt> seb128: vidu ion?
[09:33] <pitti> desrt: "diris" == "say", I assume; "iu" == "you"?
[09:33] <desrt> pitti: iu = someone
[09:33] <pitti> or rather, "said"
[09:33] <desrt> lesson time
[09:33] <desrt> there are many many words formed by (prefix) + i + (suffix)
[09:34] <pitti> checking for libpython2.7.a... not found config
[09:34] <pitti> configure: error: could not find files required to build python plugin
[09:34] <pitti> bah, dia
[09:34] <desrt> the valid prefixes are "k", "ĉ", "", "nen" and "t"
[09:34]  * pitti wishes he had never mentioned dia, now I have to spend tons of time fixing it and would also be TIL
[09:35] <desrt> "k" is the question ("what?"), "ĉ" is all ("everything"), "" is the ambiguous answer ("something"), "nen" is the negative ("nothing") and "t" is the specific answer ("that")
[09:35]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:35] <pitti> oh, it's because of our multiarch split
[09:35]  * pitti shelves that for later, something to do when I have less urgent stuff on my plate
[09:35] <desrt> and the endings are the type of question asked: "o" for a thing, "u" for a person, "am" for a time, "al" for a reason, "el" for a way-by-which (think "how"), "es" for a person to which something belongs ("kies" = "whose"), "e" for a place, etc.
[09:36] <seb128> Sweetshark, happy? :p
[09:36] <Sweetshark> seb128: quite.
[09:36] <desrt> so by combining you can form many many words... "kie" = where, "ĉiu" = everyone, "tio" = that, "iu" = someone, etc.
[09:36]  * Sweetshark tries to remember the lesson. there might be a test later.
[09:37] <desrt> Sweetshark: this will help with your studies: http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/correlatives.html
[09:37] <desrt> it has a useful table at the bottom
[10:10] <robru> desrt, you may enjoy http://globalnewsstatic.s3.amazonaws.com/content/interactives/graphicmondays/130219_tenequalprovinces.jpg
[10:12] <Laney> ricotz: Do you have that diff of the bumped webkit BDs handy?
[10:12] <Laney> I'm doing an upload so will include it
[10:29] <Laney> ricotz: nm, grepped my logs
[10:35] <jpds> Does anyone know what handles the Touchpad key on a laptop/
[10:36] <jpds> I have a bug where the key doesn't work sometimes, but I'd like to gather some extra debug information before filing a bug.
[10:39] <pitti> jpds: gnome-settings-daemon's media-keys plugin, AFAIK
[10:39] <pitti> jpds: you can kill the daemon and run it with G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all in a terminal, to get lots of debug messages
[10:42] <jpds> pitti: Thanks.
[10:42] <jpds> So, yeah, going into the screensaver blocks the reactiving of the touchpad...
[11:11] <desrt> smspillaz: hey
[11:11] <smspillaz> desrt: hej
[11:11] <desrt> smspillaz: were you paying any attention to the framesyncing work done in mutter/clutter/gtk?
[11:11] <smspillaz> desrt: yes
[11:11] <smspillaz> desrt: I plan to jump on that as soon as I have some time
[11:11] <desrt> any plans for compiz?
[11:12] <desrt> nice
[11:12] <ogra_> is anyone working on the LibO uninstallability ? (all images fail atm)
[11:28] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[11:28] <seb128> ricotz, do you still have your pango 1.32.6 packaging somewhere?
[11:28] <seb128> vcs or such?
[11:28] <seb128> or did you just had it in the ppa and overwrite it with 1.33?
[11:35] <ricotz> seb128, hi, it is in gnome3-staging, and you want to take 1.33.7
[11:36] <ricotz> 1.32.6 isnt more stable it is just missing the dev-release bump
[11:37] <ricotz> Laney, thanks for considering it
[11:37] <Laney> np
[11:50] <seb128> ricotz, no, I want 1.32.4 then
[11:51] <seb128> ricotz, I'm not looking into packaging an unstable pango, I just want one that's new enough to build gtk 3.7
[11:51] <seb128> configure checks for 1.32.4
[11:51] <seb128> ricotz, thanks for the 1.32.6 note
[11:54] <ricotz> seb128, i can't recommend using 1.32.4 either
[11:54] <seb128> ricotz, ok, stay on gtk 3.6 then, fair enough
[11:54] <ricotz> if you want gtk 3.7.x then take pango 1.33.7 too
[11:54] <seb128> staying*
[11:55] <seb128> what's the issue with pango's stable 1.32's serie?
[11:56] <ricotz> looking at the changelog after 1.32.4 there were quite some bug fixes
[11:56] <seb128> well, that's not a compelling reason to go to an unstable serie
[11:56] <ricotz> seb128, or do you want to avoid the fontconfig update?
[11:56] <seb128> I do want to avoid the fontconfig update yes
[11:57] <seb128> I'm looking at the easiest upgrade path for gtk 3.8
[11:57] <ricotz> seb128, i quess you better want to ask mclasen or behdad about that old version working with gtk master
[11:57] <seb128> configure.ac states pango requirement is 1.32.4
[11:58] <ricotz> yes, as the symbol dep
[11:58] <desrt> ricotz: had some apt error installing gnome-keyring from staging PPA
[11:58] <desrt> apt-get install -f cleared it up
[11:58] <seb128> ricotz, ok, thanks, I guess to reply to my question, you don't kept your 1.32 packaging in a vcs or somewhere where I could grab your work?
[11:58] <seb128> didn't keep*
[11:58] <ricotz> seb128, but there were harfbuzz problems and especially the thread-safety
[11:59] <ricotz> seb128, the ppa history might have it
[11:59] <ricotz> seb128, let me look locally
[12:00] <seb128> ricotz, well, it's not like our current version of pango was thread safe anyway
[12:00] <seb128> ricotz, thanks
[12:04] <ricotz> seb128, sorry, but you should be able to use the 1.33.7 and resolve the symbols
[12:05] <seb128> ricotz, ok, trying that, thanks
[12:05] <ricotz> seb128, the pangox patch seems to be still needed
[12:05] <ricotz> afaik cairodock is linking against libpangox
[12:07] <ricotz> desrt, feel free to paste the file-conflict or error in question
[12:07] <desrt> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-keyring_3.7.2-0ubuntu1~raring1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/etc/pkcs11/modules/gnome-keyring.module', which is also in package libp11-kit-gnome-keyring:amd64 3.6.2-0ubuntu2
[12:08] <ricotz> desrt, i was planning to take a look at gnome-keyring when x.90 tarballs are available, robert took care of the last packages
[12:08] <ricotz> desrt, thanks
[12:08] <desrt> np
[12:09] <ricotz> desrt, although seems good if that was the only issue ;)
[12:09] <desrt> uh
[12:09] <desrt> i didn't reboot yet
[12:09] <desrt> and your statement makes me nervous to :)
[12:10] <ricotz> alright ;)
[12:10] <ricotz> you might see a black background ;)
[12:10] <ricotz> if you havent enabled the g-s-d plugin manually
[12:11] <ricotz> desrt,  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/130099807/ubuntu-settings_12.10.6_12.10.7.diff.gz
[12:14] <desrt> ricotz: seems to have some issues with networkmanager...
[12:14] <desrt> ricotz: won't the shell draw its own background?
[12:15] <ricotz> it relies on g-s-d
[12:15] <desrt> why?
[12:15] <ricotz> nautilus is suppose to do it
[12:15] <ricotz> *not
[12:15] <desrt> not on gnome3 :)
[12:15] <desrt> i just wonder why the shell cannot draw the background itself
[12:15] <desrt> probably more efficient this way...
[12:16] <ricotz> nautilus could be the reason to silently support the iconized desktop
[12:17] <desrt> ya... sure.... in the nautilus case it should allow for an external background renderer
[12:17] <desrt> but in the non-nautilus case it should just do it itself as part of the job of composing the scene
[12:18]  * desrt ponders nautilus argb with transparency in the background areas
[12:19] <RAOF> desrt: So, libxi is working for you now? The git history is confusing me, probably because pitti uploaded -0ubuntu3 between me checking the archive version and me checking the git history.
[12:19] <desrt> RAOF: let's see
[12:20] <desrt> Name: Xi
[12:20] <desrt> Description: X Input Extension Library
[12:20] <desrt> Version: 1.6.1
[12:20] <desrt> looks right...
[12:20] <RAOF> desrt: Sorry about taht.
[12:22] <desrt> a bug is a bug
[12:22] <desrt> thanks for the fix :)
[12:22] <desrt> pitti: ^
[12:23] <desrt> pitti: oh.  you did the upload, so you probably already know about this :)
[12:23] <desrt> disregard :p
[12:30] <seb128> ricotz, what's the story with pangox?
[12:30] <seb128> what is using it?
[12:30] <seb128> looking to your readd-pangox.patch
[12:32] <desrt> libmathview_backend_gtk.so.0 here
[12:32] <desrt> i guess almost everything else has moved on to pangocairo
[12:36] <ricotz> seb128, as i said afair i only stumbled over cairodock using it
[12:36] <seb128> ricotz, ok, thanks
[12:57] <desrt> seb128: mathview's use of pangox is non-trivial
[12:57] <desrt> for the long term we will need to do one of:
[12:58] <seb128> desrt, I will just put the "restore pangox" patch in there for this cycle
[12:58] <desrt> a) get someone to look at mathview and get a patch upstream removing the depend
[12:58] <desrt> b) have a libpangox separate library/sourcepkg that just goes unmaintained forever
[12:58] <desrt> c) drop it from the archive
[12:59] <seb128> desrt, ricotz listed cairodock as well
[12:59] <desrt> i guess you do not consider (c) to be a viable option in this case
[12:59] <seb128> no
[13:00] <desrt> so let's wait until someone who can do (a) wakes up :)
[13:01] <seb128> yeah
[13:01] <desrt> ugh
[13:01] <desrt> gtkmathview bugzilla link on its homepage points to a server that no longer exists
[13:04] <desrt> attente: we should rename ilo to nuclear rabbit
[13:04] <seb128> ricotz, what's up with that debian/patches/fixes.patch in pango?
[13:05] <seb128> -  thai_modules="$thai_modules,thai-lang"
[13:05] <seb128> +  thai_modules="thai-lang"
[13:05] <seb128> in configure.ac
[13:05] <seb128> what's breaking without it?
[13:09] <ricotz> seb128, this broken the syntax leaving a ",," in the resulting list while $thai_module oviously is ""
[13:10] <mdeslaur> seb128: are we getting sane menus back in nautilus soon, or is that off the table?
[13:11] <ricotz> seb128, so this broke "for module in $included_modules; do" irc
[13:14] <pitti> desrt, RAOF: sorry, did that cause a problem?
[13:14] <pitti> RAOF, desrt: I coordinated with tjaalton this morning
[13:23] <tjaalton> RAOF: yeah, I only committed the changelog bits since the staging ppa has the clean version already
[13:23] <RAOF> pitti: No, that's fine. I was just confused because desrt asked me to fix it, and you fixed it while I was in the process of fixing it :)
[13:40] <desrt> pitti: no.  fixes the problem, i think.
[13:41] <desrt> pitti: was just telling you that it was fixed because i thought that RAOF fixed it :)
[13:41] <pitti> desrt: I did it because mutter was thinking that it could use barrier events, from comparing pkg-config --modversion xi
[13:41] <desrt> pitti: i know.  i noticed the same
[13:41] <desrt> that's why i was bothering RAOF about it
[13:41] <pitti> ain't daily jhbuild great? :-)
[13:41] <desrt> in short: there is no problem at all and all three of us are happy :)
[13:42]  * pitti ^5s desrt and RAOF
[14:05] <seb128> ricotz, did you open an upstream bug about that?
[14:05] <seb128> mdeslaur, good question, mterry said he would look at it some weeks ago, dunno if that happened
[14:10] <mterry> mdeslaur, define sane menus
[14:11] <mdeslaur> mterry: seb128 had mentioned we were going to bring back multiple categories to the menu bar, as in previous versions...as the single menu labelled "Home Folder" is kind of weird in Unity
[14:12] <mterry> mdeslaur, ah.  we just had a chat about that here.  So I hadn't been working on that side of things.  And I'm personally not sure that's a wise change to go back to.  But I guess that's a question for design.  seb128, have they chimed in?
[14:16] <mterry> Design *does* want that menu back for the bare desktop (i.e. no windows open).  So maybe that implies they want it back for normal file windows too
[14:16] <mterry> mdeslaur, ^
[14:17] <mdeslaur> mterry, seb128: is there a bug open somewhere to track this?
[14:17] <mterry> mdeslaur, I don't know one off the top of my head
[14:17] <mterry> mdeslaur, I think it was in a blueprint at least
[14:18] <mdeslaur> thanks
[14:18] <mterry> mdeslaur, while you're here, feel like giving a security perspective on qt5 in main?  1130281
[14:18] <mterry> bug 1130281 even
[14:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1130281 in qtbase-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "[MIR] qtbase" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130281
[14:18] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1037081
[14:18] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1037081 in nautilus (Ubuntu Raring) "Desktop menu missing in nautilus 3.5" [Low,Confirmed]
[14:20] <mdeslaur> mterry: jdstrand and sarnold typically handle security MIR reviews, I'll let them handle it
[14:20] <mdeslaur> Laney: thanks
[14:27] <seb128> desrt, http://www.therefinerybar.co.uk/
[14:27] <seb128> desktopers ^ michelle suggests that place, it's close and big enough to receive us
[14:32] <desrt> seb128: i'm OK with anything
[14:32] <desrt> was just giving a suggestion before -- no real preference
[14:33] <jbicha> seb128: I'm running nautilus 3.7.90 here on regular raring (without PPAs), I only had to revert 9 commits to get it to work with the GNOME 3.6 stack we have in raring
[14:34] <jbicha> I just need one more patch to get it to work with gnome-shell 3.6's SearchProvider v1
[14:35] <seb128> jbicha, what did they change?
[14:36] <jbicha> it has a few nice changes that would be difficult to backport like list view gaining optional tree view support
[14:36] <jbicha> http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/tree/NEWS
[14:36] <seb128> jbicha, are the revert because of our gtk being outdated?
[14:36] <seb128> (we are looking at updating to 3.8)
[14:36] <seb128> or for other reasons?
[14:37] <desrt> seb128: "looking at" lol
[14:37] <jbicha> 7 are for GTK 3.6, 1 is for gnome-disks (the Format menu item), 1 is for gsettings-desktop-schemas
[14:37] <jbicha> seb128: GTK 3.8 breaks theming in Unity pretty bad, I don't know how easy that is to fix
[14:38] <seb128> jbicha, menus?
[14:38] <desrt> jbicha: i fixed this already
[14:38] <seb128> jbicha, desrt fixed that yesterday
[14:38] <desrt> the fix is already in the archive, even
[14:38] <jbicha> ok, GTK 3.8 would be nice then :)
[14:38] <seb128> jbicha, did you try desrt's fix?
[14:38] <seb128> didrocks, hud NEWed!
[14:39] <seb128> jbicha, it's in raring
[14:39] <didrocks> seb128: \o/
[14:39] <jbicha> Nautilus today also drops support for drawing the desktop so we'd need to revert that for Metacity at least (Compiz/Unity too, right?)
[14:40] <desrt> jbicha: 'today'?
[14:40] <desrt> i just checked out nautilus from git a few minutes ago and it still has the desktop code
[14:41] <jbicha> http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/log
[14:41] <jbicha> *drawing the wallpaper*
[14:41] <desrt> lol
[14:42] <jbicha> oops ;)
[14:42] <desrt> i was speculating about using rgba for the desktop only an hour or two ago
[14:42] <desrt> glad to see they do it :)
[14:42] <desrt> smspillaz: hey
[14:42] <desrt> smspillaz: what's the story with wallpaper drawing in compiz
[14:42] <desrt> smspillaz: i saw you were doing work on this at some point
[14:59]  * mdeslaur hugs pitti for fixing pygobject-2
[15:00] <pitti> mdeslaur: :)
[15:00] <pitti> mdeslaur: does meld work properly for you again? I got the warning, but it was otherwise mostly working for me
[15:00] <pitti> but I don't normally use it, so I didn't exercise it very thoroughly
[15:00] <mdeslaur> pitti: yep, works fine now. I don't get the warning anymore
[15:07] <Laney>   /gdbus/unref-pending:                                                FAIL
[15:07] <Laney> GTester: last random seed: R02S9dcf5591189f5c8d0b42c0e12667c9b4
[15:15] <jbicha> seb128: theming still isn't working right with GTK 3.8, my menus have icons but menus-have-icons is set to false
[15:17] <jbicha> the menu bar is using Ambiance but my theme is Adwaita, Firefox theming isn't correct
[15:18] <jbicha> actually everything is using Ambiance/ubuntu-mono-dark
[15:19] <desrt> jbicha: sounds.... odd
[15:19] <jbicha> I guess I'll try reverting gnome-settings-daemon just to check if that's what's wrong
[15:19] <desrt> why would it use amciance if you have your theme set to adwaita?
[15:19] <desrt> maybe g-s-d is mucked up or your dconf setup
[15:19] <jbicha> g-s-d/g-c-c breaks a lot of things on Ubuntu
[15:21] <smspillaz> desrt: XSetRootWindowBackground should work just fine
[15:22] <smspillaz> I don't think its possible to change it after compiz has started
[15:22] <smspillaz> (doing that would require listening for damage on the root window and you don't want that)
[15:22] <desrt> interesting
[15:22] <desrt> if nautilus is truly drawn rgba then that would probably work, indeed
[15:22] <smspillaz> uhh
[15:22] <smspillaz> no, not really
[15:23] <smspillaz> if a desktop window is present we don't use the root window background
[15:23] <smspillaz> perhaps we could tweak it so that if the desktop window has an alpha channel, we should draw the root window background ?
[15:23] <jbicha> desrt: seb128: reverting g-s-d back to 3.6 fixed my theme problems
[15:23] <smspillaz> (desktop windows have never had alpha channels, heh)
[15:24] <desrt> smspillaz: starting today, they do
[15:24] <desrt> which really makes a great deal of sense if you think about it
[15:24] <desrt> the only reason that nautilus drew the desktop historically is because it had to
[15:24] <desrt> because we didn't have the ability to composite the icons on top of a background coming from a different source
[15:24] <smspillaz> desrt: heh, awesome, I guess we can have per-workspace wallpapers now
[15:24] <desrt> smspillaz: yes.  definitely.
[15:24] <desrt> or animated ones
[15:25] <smspillaz> that too
[15:25] <desrt> (without it sucking, i mean)
[15:25] <smspillaz> although, it would still suck
[15:25] <smspillaz> animated wallpapers don't really work in cases where abusing fill-rate is not an option
[15:26] <smspillaz> and then even if they're obscured it will still abuse fill rate because of some very stupid details of how the damage code in compiz works
[15:27] <smspillaz> desrt: so then there's work to be done and
[15:27] <smspillaz> *sigh*
[15:28] <desrt> smspillaz: you love compiz.  admit it.
[15:28] <smspillaz> well
[15:28] <smspillaz> Iunno
[15:28] <smspillaz> there are some things I like about it
[15:28] <smspillaz> and then there are just some things which are not there yet and would be a total pain to do
[15:36] <seb128> smspillaz, dunno what you are doing but both didrocks and desrt are complaining about you
[15:37] <desrt> smspillaz: seb is, in kind, just left of didrocks :)
[15:38]  * achiang hears a lot of giggling coming from the left hand side of the table, wonders what seb128, desrt, and didrocks are laughing about
[15:38] <desrt> and achiang to the right
[15:38] <didrocks> London is as noisy as this channel right now :p
[15:40] <desrt> smspillaz: seriously, though... would be nice to have you here
[15:41] <smspillaz> heh, yeah, it would be nice to be in London
[15:41] <desrt> apparently didrocks ate mterry
[15:41] <smspillaz> desrt: sounds plausible
[15:42] <didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, I did it the "French way" :p
[15:42] <desrt> a lyonese specialty, no doubt
[15:42] <smspillaz> I think that is going to be a thing now
[15:42] <didrocks> with some quenelle
[15:42]  * mterry is a specialty everywhere
[15:42] <Laney> GLib:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-2oF6AZ/glib2.0-2.35.8/./glib/tests/thread.c:149:test_thread4: assertion failed: (thread == NULL)
[15:42] <Laney> OK /thread/thread4:                                                     FAIL
[15:42] <Laney> GTester: last random seed: R02S1502a99625ea8544e6ee6df2f43f5921
[15:43] <smspillaz> just add "I did it the French Way[tm]" to add ambiguity about a potential double entendre
[15:43] <desrt> Laney: this happens when the kernel rejects our request to make a thread due to insufficient resources
[15:43] <Laney> oho
[15:43] <desrt> builders busy?
[15:43] <Laney> my laptop
[15:43] <desrt> weird!!!
[15:43] <Laney> so... s/busy/shitty/?
[15:43] <desrt> reproducable?
[15:44] <Laney> let me try again
[15:44] <Laney> i'll not build in ram this time ...
[15:44] <desrt> interesting...
[15:44] <seb128> I like how we talk over IRC when sitting at the same table
[15:44] <larsu> nerds.
[15:44] <Laney> NERDS
[15:44] <Laney> snap
[15:44] <larsu> haha :)
[15:45] <seb128> larsu, you are just jalous :p
[15:45] <larsu> I like that you're talking here.  Makes me feel less bad about not being in London
[15:45] <larsu> seb128: yeah...
[15:45]  * seb128 hugs larsu
[15:45] <larsu> :)
[15:45] <seb128> we miss you as well
[15:46] <Laney> ♥
[15:46] <larsu> that honorary desktop-team membership is not worth much when I can't come to the sprints!
[15:48] <davmor2> larsu: you can sprint all you want, just buy a tread mill ;)
[15:49] <larsu> nah, too lazy :P
[16:20] <jbicha> seb128, mterry: I attached my debdiff to bug 1130746
[16:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1130746 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Update to nautilus 3.7.90" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130746
[16:21] <seb128> jbicha, can we get a merge request for the team vcs rather?
[16:25] <jasoncwarner_> morning everyone
[16:25] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: hihi
[16:25] <desrt> (you can tell by the fastest responses on IRC who are the most dedicated slackers at the sprint)
[16:25] <mterry> jbicha, I'm nervous about 3.8 apps in raring
[16:25] <mterry> jasoncwarner_, hello!
[16:25] <didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_!
[16:26] <desrt> nautilus was on our to-consider list
[16:26] <desrt> depending on if cosimo added things to make our life better
[16:26] <desrt> (as he said he may at the UDS)
[16:26] <Laney> looks like glib builds when i don't do it in ram
[16:26] <desrt> Laney: that's really weird...
[16:26] <desrt> i wouldn't think that memory pressure would reduce the willingness of the kernel to spawn new threads
[16:27] <desrt> the thing is, the only way you get the thread != NULL assertion is in the case that the kernel returns EAGAIN
[16:27] <desrt> all other cases would hit a different assert
[16:28] <mterry> desrt, my personal to-consider list was empty, though I know the discussion was more expansive at UDS  :)
[16:28] <desrt> documented thus:        EAGAIN Insufficient resources to create another thread, or a system-imposed limit on the number of threads was encountered.   The  latter  case  may  occur in two ways: the RLIMIT_NPROC soft resource limit (set via setrlimit(2)), which limits the number of process for a real user ID, was reached; or the kernel's sys‐ tem-wide limit on the number of threads, /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, was reached.
[16:29] <desrt> Laney: wait.  this is WAY more interesting than i thought
[16:30] <jbicha> mterry: it's less patches to maintain to go with 3.8 than to try to backport useful stuff to 3.6 especially if we do get GTK 3.8 in for raring
[16:40] <seb128> jbicha, we wouldn't backport, we would stay on 3.6 and wait another cycle to get the new features
[16:40] <seb128> time for them to stabilize
[17:02] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson seb128 tells me you had the most fun out of anyone the past few days....
[17:02] <jasoncwarner_> ;)
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, hah, yes :)
[17:02] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson I mean, if you wanted to dig into obscure problem areas, I guess you found your niche ;)
[17:03] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson but in seriousness....holy freakin' hell that is awesome. great job
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, i do seem to end up with all of the fun bugs ;)
[17:06] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, do you have any bug for bamf misbehaving with FF in precise ?
[17:06] <ogra_> i seem to not be able to have it use its icon in the launcher
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, i've not seen anything like that. but sometimes things can get a bit weird eg if bamf restarts for some reason
[17:07] <ogra_> (and i also dont seem to be able to reach the most right tab in it)
[17:07] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, well, i have that behavior since day one
[17:07] <ogra_> FF starts always with the questionmark icon
[17:08] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, oh, i definitely haven't seen anything like that before :/
[17:08] <ogra_> wrt tabs, i can reach the tab if i go to the most right tab i can get and then maximize
[17:08] <ogra_> that gets me the one extra tab thats right of the one i can reach ....
[17:09] <ogra_> only in the tab bar thogh, the pulldown works fine
[17:30] <didrocks> czajkowski: hey, around?
[17:32] <czajkowski> I am
[17:33] <czajkowski> didrocks: what have I done....
[17:33] <didrocks> czajkowski: nothing (yet ;)), do you know if uploads to a ppa are currently encoutering issues?
[17:33] <didrocks> czajkowski: like, we receive no email, nor seeing the upload in the ppa
[17:33] <czajkowski> they were about 2 hours ago
[17:34] <czajkowski> maybe 3 at this stage been on a call for the last while
[17:34] <czajkowski> lemmie go poke
[17:34] <czajkowski> didrocks: got an example ppa ?
[18:02] <Laney> gnew glib gnuploaded
[18:06] <desrt> Laney: nice.  thanks.
[18:06] <Laney> kein problem
[18:43] <seb128> ricotz, did you have pango builds failing with "asic-fc.c:335: undefined reference to `hb_ft_face_create_cached'" errors?
[18:43] <seb128> basic*
[18:45] <ricotz> seb128, no, irc this was a recent harfbuzz api change
[18:46] <seb128> seems like rather linker flags missing
[18:46] <seb128> no?
[18:47] <ricotz> http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/commit/?id=6ee53b4e4567b4d7f2b8799d00ecea223ab4b28f
[18:47] <ricotz> (but there was some symbols rename too irc)
[18:48] <seb128> ricotz, thanks, would have been very handy if you kept your 1.32 packaging :p
[18:48] <seb128> I didn't see that patch in the changelog history though
[18:48] <seb128> wonder how you built it
[18:49] <jbicha> seb128: you mean like https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+packages?field.name_filter=pango1.0&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=raring
[18:50] <seb128> jbicha, thanks, I was looking in the gnome3 staging ppa, not this one
[18:50] <seb128> jbicha, you can't get the files from there it seems :-(
[18:50] <seb128> " Removed from disk on 2013-01-07. "
[18:51] <jbicha> it works here
[18:51] <seb128> jbicha, works?
[18:52] <seb128> jbicha, can you give me the url of the debian.tar.gz?
[18:52] <seb128> jbicha, for 1.32.5
[18:52] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+files/pango1.0_1.32.6-0ubuntu1%7Eraring2.debian.tar.xz
[18:53] <seb128> jbicha, 1.32.6 is the "broken version" which should have been 1.33.
[18:53] <jbicha> oh never mind then
[18:53] <seb128> thanks for trying ;-)
[18:53] <seb128> shrug, it's annoying that you guys went through the work to do those updates
[18:54] <seb128> but didn't keep the stuff you did in a way we can reuse them for the distro
[18:54] <seb128> vcs for the win guys ;-)
[18:54] <jbicha> well this is unusual, everyone knows that higher version number = better
[18:55] <seb128> lol
[18:56]  * Sweetshark is suggesting to upstream to release "LibreOffice over 9000" next then ....
[18:57] <seb128> ok, time to call it day, will continue tomorrow
[18:58] <jbicha> Sweetshark: the Android Impress remote control app is cool
[20:50] <GunnarHj> charles: ping?


[12:30] <Mitario> hi guys
[12:41] <bddebian> Nafallo: Thanks.
[12:42] <Nafallo> bddebian: no problem. but I will not upload another package without a changelog entry for you ;-)
[12:42] <bddebian> Doh
[12:42] <bddebian> OK
[12:42] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:42] <bddebian> Gotta run for a bit.  Thanks again
[01:22] <StrikeForce> anyone on with main permissiosn
[01:22] <StrikeForce> permissions*
[01:23] <StrikeForce> ogra: you on?
[01:24] <slomo> ogra isn't here ;)
[01:24] <mbreit> good night everyone...
[01:25] <StrikeForce> do you have main rights slomo ?
[01:25] <slomo> StrikeForce: no... better ask in -devel
[01:25] <StrikeForce> ahh k
[01:27] <Nafallo> slomo doesn't have rights ;-)
[01:27] <StrikeForce> does anyone here?
[01:28] <StrikeForce> I know ogra does is there anyone else?
[01:28] <Nafallo> dholbach and \sh
[01:28] <StrikeForce> ahh k
[01:28] <ajmitch> bittornado was already uploaded by doko
[01:28] <StrikeForce> doh
[01:28] <ajmitch> and yes, your patch did need changed :)
[01:29] <StrikeForce> what was wrong with it :(
[01:30] <ajmitch> well you don't need the dependency on libwxgtk2.4-1-python
[01:30] <StrikeForce> don't I ?
[01:30] <StrikeForce> is it only needed for usage?
[01:30] <StrikeForce> as in the gui version
[01:31] <ajmitch> no, it's not needed at all, because python-wxgtk2.4 is a real package
[01:31] <StrikeForce> oh ok
[01:31] <StrikeForce> so I should have deleted that part
[01:32] <ajmitch> certainly, and I didn't look into it enough
[01:33] <StrikeForce> well that was the only change
[01:33] <ajmitch> I know
[01:35] <StrikeForce> that means I'll need to change bittorrent as well
[01:46] <StrikeForce> Can we submit updated packages e.g. video-dvdrip?
[01:47] <ajmitch> what is wrong with it?
[01:48] <StrikeForce> just a new upstream version?
[01:48] <ajmitch> is there any good reason for wanting to get this version in?
[01:49] <StrikeForce> not sure yet only just got released a couple of days after video-dvdrip was uploaded
[01:49] <StrikeForce> so I'm going to have a better look at it now
[01:49] <ajmitch> since we have been in upstream version freeze for nearly 2 months no, in feature freeze, and preview freeze is almost upon us
[01:50] <ajmitch> so any new upstream versions have to have good justification
[01:50] <StrikeForce> so when do the new upstream versions get uploaded?
[01:50] <StrikeForce> in breezy +1
[01:50] <ajmitch> yes
[01:50] <Nafallo> StrikeForce: yes
[01:50] <StrikeForce> ahh k
[01:50] <ajmitch> they get synced automatically
[01:50] <StrikeForce> so now its just fix whats there at the moment
[01:50] <StrikeForce> synced from debian?
[01:50] <ajmitch> pretty much
[01:50] <ajmitch> yes
[01:50] <StrikeForce> fair enough
[01:50] <ajmitch> we've got enough fixing to get done
[01:50] <Nafallo> ajmitch: will mom report to malone for breezy+1? :-)
[01:51] <ajmitch> Nafallo: no idea
[01:52] <StrikeForce> anyways show and work time
[01:52] <StrikeForce> :(
[02:01] <ajmitch> bbl
[02:48] <zul> morning kids
[03:10] <ajmitch> hi zul
[03:11] <ajmitch> what's new?
[03:11] <zul> not much just enjoying the new laptop
[03:11] <ajmitch> heh
[03:26] <ajmitch> hello jsgotangco
[03:26] <jsgotangco> morning ajmitch
[03:35] <jsgotangco> brb
[03:56] <ajmitch> sigh, some of these packages need stripped down & rebuilt
[03:58] <bmonty> which ones?
[04:00] <robitaille> is there a wiki page for the cairo transition?  I noticed yesterday that network-manager needs libcairo1; can't fill a bug in bugzilla (universe), and Malone doesn't know about that package either, so can't file a bug anywhere about it :)
[04:01] <ajmitch> bmonty: a couple of python ones that were imported from apt-get.org
[04:01] <ajmitch> bmonty: they're badly done, to put it mildly :)
[04:01] <lifeless> heh.
[04:01] <bmonty> ajmitch: I can't help there, I don't know much about python
[04:02] <ajmitch> I've maintained some python packages for a little while
[04:02] <ajmitch> so I've taken them on, and I guess I'll send them back to the developer :)
[04:03] <ajmitch> robitaille: no, but feel free to make one :)
[04:03] <ajmitch> it's one of the last packages to still have a depend - and will be uploaded soon
[04:03] <ajmitch> at least 2 people have been working on it
[04:04] <robitaille> ok; as long as it is known and being worked on; I'm happy.
[04:05] <ajmitch> robitaille: it's because it was in main, is now in universe (or was meant to be in main but didn't quite make it)
[04:05] <robitaille> yes I know. there are a few other missing ones in Malone; new ones, or recent demotions  evolution-plugins is one of them as well.
[04:06] <ajmitch> yep
[04:06] <ajmitch> I think those procedures have to be sorted out
[04:09] <bmonty> ajmitch: I'm still working on the apt-spy package and making it work for ubuntu....I'm basically going to have to rewrite the program to handle the ubuntu differences, do you think that should make a new package?
[04:09] <ajmitch> bmonty: ouch, why a rewrite?
[04:10] <bmonty> ajmitch: the ubutun mirror listing is nothing like the debian one
[04:10] <Lathiat_> bmonty: is the "debian format" html or some kind of XML/simple format ?
[04:10] <bmonty> I can reuse all of the benchmarking code, but the parsers are no good
[04:10] <bmonty> Lathiat_: it is a text file
[04:10] <Lathiat_> bmonty: what does it look like?
[04:10] <ajmitch> bmonty: hm, sounds more like a new package
[04:10] <ajmitch> if it's that major a rewrite
[04:10] <Lathiat_> (e.g. can we replaciate such a text file)
[04:11] <Lathiat_> err, replciate
[04:11] <Lathiat_> replicate!
[04:11] <Lathiat_>  damnit
[04:12] <bmonty> Lathiat_: it looks like http://www.us.debian.org/mirrors/list the info after the "Secondary Mirrors" heading
[04:12] <bmonty> Lathiat_: we could probably replicate the text file
[04:12] <Lathiat_> ok, i see no reason why we cant just make such a text file
[04:12] <Lathiat_> looks fairly sane to me...
[04:13] <Lathiat_> just need to haras the right person to get it done and updatable
[04:13] <bmonty> I have a perl script that can parse the wiki page....maybe someone can put the output from that on the ubuntu web server?
[04:14] <bmonty> I'd have to update it a little to make the output match the debian format
[04:14] <Lathiat_> sounds good
[04:14] <bmonty> I'm also assuming that the only ubuntu mirror listing is what is in the wiki
[04:14] <Lathiat_> as long as the wiki page stays in format
[04:15] <bmonty> yeah
[04:16] <bmonty> any idea who I should contact about that?
[04:16] <Lathiat_> hrm
[04:16] <Lathiat_> not sure
[04:16] <Lathiat_> maybe elmo?
[04:16] <bmonty> maybe I'll just post it to ubuntu-dev and see who replies :)
[05:13] <Burgundavia> \sh_away, siretart your canonical machines are brand-new?
[05:44] <desrt> how can i love ghc6?
[05:47] <ajmitch> desrt: it needs a lot of love - chiefly hacking together a new package from upstream cvs, somehow getting it bootstrapped on the buildds, and then throwing packages at it
[05:47] <ajmitch> talk to sistpoty about it as well
[05:48] <ajmitch> I'd hate for you both to do it at once :)
[05:48] <desrt> i suppose he ircs but isn't around at the moment?
[05:49] <ajmitch> he doesn't appear to be around
[05:49] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGhc6Transition
[05:49] <desrt> i was reading this
[05:49] <ajmitch> looks like he's done a fair bit of what's needed
[05:51] <desrt> hmm.  that's good
[05:51] <desrt> we use ghc fairly extensively at work and my cluster runs  breezy so ..... yeah :)
[05:51] <desrt> it looks like it might be fixed soon without my help though.  good to know :)
[05:51] <desrt> cheers.
[05:51] <Lathiat_> iirc
[05:51] <desrt> woh
[05:51] <Lathiat_> we were waiting on new upstream
[05:51] <desrt> it's that guy
[05:51] <Lathiat_> for gcc4 fixes
[05:52] <desrt> Lathiat; yes and no
[05:52] <Lathiat_> and ti was due anytime now (tm)
[05:52] <desrt> Lathiat; ghc releases are ... funny
[05:52] <Lathiat_> but apparentyl cvs now works
[05:52] <desrt> like ghc 6.4 was supposed to come out last august
[05:52] <Lathiat_> so at worst
[05:52] <Lathiat_> we can run with that
[05:52] <desrt> and it came out in like april :P
[05:52] <desrt> the simons have a nice "when it's ready" policy :)
[05:52] <ajmitch> well we'll have to run with the daily snapshot then
[05:53] <ajmitch> and forward any bugreports to them ;)
[05:53] <desrt> nod. the wiki page says you're using a snap
[05:53] <desrt> it'd be awful nice if they got 641 out before breezy
[05:54] <desrt> i think i'll nudge them a bit :P
[05:58] <ajmitch> please do
[07:50] <pef> morning
[09:25] <siretart> morning
[09:26] <siretart> Burgundavia: yeah, the revu has already moved to the canonical server :)
[09:26] <Burgundavia> siretart, cool
[09:26] <Burgundavia> siretart, but I was actually referring to your laptop'
[09:27] <siretart> ah, :)
[09:27] <siretart> Burgundavia: they are faily new, I think the label says feb,
[09:29] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:34] <ivoks> 'morning
[09:35] <siretart> Burgundavia:  S/N: 99-FAMB5 05/01 - this last part is the manufacturing date
[09:35] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:35] <Treenaks> siretart: is that 2005-01 or 2001-05 ?
[09:35] <siretart> Treenaks: Jan, 2005
[11:35] <ogra> tseng, awake by any chance ?
[11:36] <siretart> hi ogra
[11:36] <ogra> hey
[11:36] <siretart> ogra: infinity asked me if it was ok to update php 4.3 in universe to 4.4 earlier today
[11:36] <ogra> sure
[11:37] <ogra> see php updates as generally granted ;)
[11:37] <siretart> ogra: I said that he should know better than me, and in case of doubt, he should rather ask you, because I don't know much about php
[11:37] <siretart> okay
[11:38] <siretart> he wanted to have another look, because some packages need to be rebuild (i.e. another transistion)
[11:38] <siretart> as far as I understood it
[11:38] <siretart> ah, he isn't in this channel..
[11:42] <ogra_> grr
[11:42] <ogra_> siretart, see php updates as generally granted ;)
[11:42] <ogra_> siretart, its 99% likely that they are security improvements ;)
[11:42] <Treenaks> ogra_: :)
[11:43] <ogra_> :)
[11:43] <siretart> ok
[12:10] <tseng> ogra: hi
[12:10] <ogra> tseng, to late now...
[12:10] <tseng> ogra: ok.
[12:10] <tseng> ogra: sorry.
[12:10] <ogra> tseng, someone was asking me about common authentication models used in php programming
[12:10] <tseng> ah
[12:11] <tseng> i usually leave that to apache
[12:11] <tseng> make an apache  protected (mod-auth-kerb) directory with a php file in it
[12:12] <tseng> if they can get past the password prompt, that file sets up their session
[12:14] <ogra> tseng, forwarded, thanks :)
[12:14] <tseng> great
[01:34] <slomo> hi Nafallo :) we can start uploading stuff ;)
[01:34] <Nafallo> slomo: sure :-)
[01:57] <StrikeForce> ogra: are you on?
[01:57] <ogra> yup
[01:57] <StrikeForce> can you have a look at a program for me
[01:57] <StrikeForce> its supposed to be in main
[01:57] <StrikeForce> bittorrent is up in revu
[01:58] <ogra> not now, i'm very busy preparing for preview freeze....
[01:58] <StrikeForce> ahh k
[01:58] <StrikeForce> not sure if its been uploaded to main though
[01:58] <StrikeForce> since I don't have an account for main hence I was asked to contact someone who could
[01:59] <ogra> i'll look at it...
[01:59] <StrikeForce> sweet thanks heaps
[02:26] <Mitario> heya everyone
[02:27] <StrikeForce> hey
[02:27] <Treenaks> hey Mitario
[02:27] <slomo> hi Mitario :) do you want to ping mako again? ;)
[02:30] <Mitario> pff again? ;)
[02:32] <slomo> Mitario: why not? it isn't that much work to check our signatures... my key is even signed by someone who also signed mako ;)
[02:33] <Mitario> true true
[02:33] <Treenaks> Mitario: need sigs ? :P
[02:33] <Mitario> Treenaks, weet nog niet :) maar als ik ze nodig mocht hebben pak ik de trein :p
[02:33] <Treenaks> Mitario: k :)
[02:44] <StrikeForce> how do I know if a package is in universe?
[02:44] <StrikeForce> and not main
[02:45] <Treenaks> StrikeForce: apt-cache show :)
[02:47] <StrikeForce> Treenaks: thanks that explains it for me :P
[02:48] <Treenaks> StrikeForce: apt-cache show packagename
[02:48] <StrikeForce> I don't really want to do main packages since it doesn't offer anyone any benefits
[02:48] <StrikeForce> no I was being serious I wasn't being sarcastic
[02:49] <Treenaks> StrikeForce: well, try it
[02:49] <Treenaks> StrikeForce: packages.ubuntu.com can help also
[02:49] <StrikeForce> Treenaks: I have it works fine
[02:49] <StrikeForce> yeah I built bittorrent and bittornado to meet unmet deps
[02:49] <StrikeForce> however they are main packages
[02:57] <StrikeForce> Got a question
[02:58] <StrikeForce> I just did sudo pdebuild for scorched3d and it worked fine
[02:58] <StrikeForce> however when I do an apt-cache -i unmet | less then search for scorched3d it comes up with an unmet dependancy
[02:59] <StrikeForce> even though it compiled fine could it be the running of the program?
[03:01] <ogra> StrikeForce, apt-cache madison gives cleaner output ;)
[03:01] <StrikeForce> oh ok
[03:05] <StrikeForce> well I'm just checking it now so if it all installs and works then I'll upload it
[03:05] <rbelem> morning all ;-)
[03:05] <StrikeForce> morning rbelem
[03:06] <rbelem> morning StrikeForce
[03:18] <StrikeForce> Stupid question to come
[03:18] <StrikeForce> I usually build packages using dpkg-buildpackage
[03:18] <StrikeForce> however I've been trying to learn how to build with pdebuild whats the command to actually build the .deb package and sign it?
[03:23] <rbelem> hey StrikeForce i listed at my wiki some links that are very useful. RodrigoBelem
[03:26] <rbelem> StrikeForce: i just need to organize it
[03:27] <rbelem> ;-)
[03:27] <StrikeForce> :) Its  heaps more than what I got :)
[03:27] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:28] <rbelem> hey bddebian ;-)
[03:28] <bddebian> Hello rbelem
[03:28] <rbelem> ;-)
[03:45] <bddebian> Welcome ogra
[03:45] <ogra> :/
[03:47] <slomo> Lathiat_: are there already new avahi packages?
[03:48] <bddebian> Oh, hi, slomo, you snuck in again :-)
[03:49] <slomo> bddebian: i'm here since 3 hours already ;)
[03:50] <bddebian> Welcome crimsun
[03:50] <Lathiat_> slomo: yeh
[03:50] <Lathiat_> slomo: http://www.burtononi.com/debian/breezy/
[03:50] <bddebian> slomo: Oh, well you didn't say Hi to me.. :'-(
[03:50] <bddebian> ;-P
[03:50] <slomo> bddebian: hi bddebian :) sorry... i'm a bit confused today ;)
[03:50] <bddebian> Bah, I'm kidding
[03:50] <slomo> Lathiat_: domain not found ;)
[03:51] <Lathiat_> burtonini
[03:51] <slomo> Lathiat_: ok, works :) revu-ready? and i'll test them this evening... i finally have my ibook working again so i can play a bit with it :)
[03:52] <Lathiat_> slomo: cool
[03:55] <slomo> Lathiat_: yes... i'm really curious how well it already works :) are the packages revu-ready or is something missing?
[03:56] <Lathiat_> their ready but im dodging revu
[03:56] <slomo> Lathiat_: why? well, you probably get my vote... and ajmitch was also interested in this package so revu may be unecessary ;)
[03:57] <Lathiat_> yeh pretty much :)
[03:57] <Lathiat_> i've fixed all the problesm ajmitch had
[03:58] <slomo> Lathiat_: oh... then you most probably have my vote =) when ajmitch hasn't nothing to complain anymore there IS nothing to complain ;)
[03:59] <StrikeForce> Should I upload scorched3d to revu?
[03:59] <bddebian> Heh
[03:59] <StrikeForce> or just the changes file?
[04:00] <siretart> StrikeForce: could you poke fenio for new scorched3d upstream? ;)
[04:00] <bddebian> ogra: Still have a bad connection?
[04:00] <rbelem> hey slomo can you take a look in muse-streamer and darksnow? ;-)
[04:01] <ogra> yup, and now even the isdn drops constantly...
[04:01] <slomo> rbelem: yes, later maybe... but not now ;)
[04:01] <bddebian> ISDN??  Oh man
[04:01] <ogra> its my fallback...
[04:02] <Lathiat_> haha
[04:02] <Lathiat_> poor ogra
[04:02] <Lathiat_> bat your ISP about the head
[04:02] <ogra> but i have to finish some packages before mdz wakes up and everything gets closed for preview freeze...
[04:02] <ogra> currently updating my pbuilder, which takes 4h
[04:02] <bddebian> Yikes
[04:02] <rbelem> ok ;-) thx slomo
[04:03] <ogra> Lathiat_, my isp is the only one around, i live in the middle of nowhere... they dont even care about me
[04:03] <Lathiat_> ogra: ouch
[04:03] <ogra> yup
[04:03] <bddebian> ogra: Just get a T-1 pulled to your house ;-)
[04:03] <Lathiat_> isnt your telco required to service in-the-middle-of-nowhere people?
[04:03] <Lathiat_> or is that just an australian thing?
[04:04] <ogra> bddebian, no T1 here
[04:04] <ogra> Lathiat_, not by law
[04:04] <bddebian> T-3?
[04:04] <StrikeForce> siretart: I've just emailed him
[04:04] <bddebian> :-)
[04:04] <Lathiat_> ogra: heh, that sucks
[04:04] <Lathiat_> its required here
[04:04] <Lathiat_> they keep arguign about it
[04:04] <Lathiat_> cus the private parts hate it
[04:04] <Lathiat_> but the government enforce it
[04:04] <ogra> Lathiat_, they are required to cover a certain amount ... 90% i think... i'm somewhere between 89 and 91 %
[04:05] <siretart> StrikeForce: btw, there is already a scorched3d_38.1-2ubuntu1 upload, but it is not built yet. are you aware of that?
[04:05] <StrikeForce> siretart: where?
[04:05] <StrikeForce> siretart: just the source part of it
[04:05] <StrikeForce> siretart: because if thats the case well it compiles fine :)
[04:06] <siretart> StrikeForce: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-August/010252.html
[04:06] <siretart> StrikeForce: but not yet built.
[04:06] <StrikeForce> siretart: ok then well ignore me :(
[04:07] <StrikeForce> siretart: is there a mailing list I can check out it seems like everytime I do something someone has already done it :( and I feel I'm really going around in circles :(
[04:07] <siretart> StrikeForce: schorced3d is on my and Lathiat's personal pet list
[04:07] <siretart> StrikeForce: sure: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/
[04:08] <siretart> StrikeForce: I'm basically waiting for fenio to upload a fixed and updated scorched3d package to debian
[04:08] <siretart> because -39 fixed some amd64 interoperability issues
[04:09] <StrikeForce> siretart: ok well I've emailed him and offerred to help him although I'm not sure how much patching he has done
[04:10] <StrikeForce> siretart: not a lot by the looks of it only 1 patch which is the html help dialog patch which is bugger all
[04:12] <siretart> StrikeForce: his main objection was, that scorched3d needed an updated and fixed version of openal
[04:12] <siretart> StrikeForce: therefore I fixed openal for debian, and the debian maintainer accepted my patch. it was eventually uploaded, and should be ready for fenio
[04:13] <siretart> StrikeForce: so it is his turn now..
[04:13] <StrikeForce> oh ok
[04:14] <StrikeForce> when are the programs going to get built because I'm still getting them showing up as unmet deps
[04:15] <siretart> scorched3d needs to be kicked a bit, because it got caught in wait-dep
[04:15] <siretart> err. dep-wait
[04:16] <StrikeForce> ahh k
[04:19] <siretart> just go on with another package, I'm going to handle scorched3d. thanks for the email to fenio, I'm waiting for him, and he already promised me to have that package uploaded soon
[04:28] <StrikeForce> ok then
[04:40] <bddebian> Grr
[04:40] <bddebian> Hello ivoks
[04:40] <ivoks> hi
[04:44] <pef> is foo-0.6.4-beta a correct version ?
[04:45] <bddebian> For whom?
[04:46] <bddebian> Where has dholbach been hiding?
[04:47] <pef> bddebian: packaging ;)
[04:48] <bddebian> pef: Packaged from Debian or new?  I assume not Debian
[04:49] <pef> bddebian: updating a program present into Debian
[04:49] <pef> a new upstream version is available
[04:49] <bddebian> pef: You are updating a current Debian package from upstream sources?
[04:50] <pef> bddebian: yes
[04:50] <bddebian> pef: What is the current Debian version?
[04:50] <pef> bddebian: current Debian release: 0.6, upstream version: 0.6.4-beta
[04:50] <pef> I don't like the "beta"
[04:50] <bddebian> Is there a "stable" upstream version?
[04:52] <pef> bddebian: it's the only new version available
[04:52] <pef> bddebian: http://sourceforge.net/projects/knights/
[04:54] <bddebian> Man I dunno. I suppose you should keep the upstream version and append ubuntu1 but man that looks ugly :-)
[04:54] <ivoks> -0ubuntu1
[04:54] <bddebian> Oh, aye
[04:57] <pef> ok, thanks
[04:59] <ogra> bddebian, we arent...
[05:00] <ogra> pef, i guess you are aware that we have a policy for fixing first... i.e. no new upstream version before the transitions are done and no new upstream version if it doesnt fix serious bugs or ftbfs
[05:00] <ogra> pef, does this new upstream version match any of the latter ?
[05:01] <pef> ogra: none of them
[05:01] <bddebian> ogra: Well then maybe YOU will answer my question about depends and/or build-depends missing from the archive
[05:01] <bddebian> :-)
[05:01] <ogra> bddebian, ask
[05:01] <bddebian> I have, several times, both in here and in -devel :-)
[05:02] <bddebian> For example, yaprimaxgui depends pxscan which is not in the archive (multiverse)
[05:02] <bddebian> libdebtags1 is another example
[05:02] <ogra> depends or build depends ?
[05:02] <bddebian> pxscan depends
[05:02] <bddebian> libdebtags1 is a build-dep
[05:03] <ivoks> i need sponsor
[05:03] <ogra> if its build depends, yaprimaxgui would have to be in multiverse too
[05:03] <ogra> depends is ok
[05:03] <ivoks> i'll do GLU transition... who will upload changes for me?
[05:04] <ivoks> no volounters :)
[05:04] <pef> ogra: you mean this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PreviewFreeze ?
[05:04] <ogra> pef, i mean our decision on the last MOTU meeting and the UVF 6 weeks ago
[05:05] <ivoks> no adding packages :)
[05:05] <bddebian> ogra: I'm not sure what you mean.  You mean yaprimaxgui should get moved to multiverse because it depends on pxscan?
[05:05] <bddebian> ivoks: I would but I can't upload :-)
[05:06] <ogra> ivoks, with the above exceptions... (or enough people moaning that its necessary...)
[05:06] <pef> ogra: oh sorry, will read them now
[05:06] <ivoks> ogra: right
[05:07] <ogra> pef, the thing is that we decided not to waste manpower for other stuff than fixing the archive now... universe isnt in a releasable state and we only have 4 weeks left
[05:08] <pef> ogra: ok, so what can I do for MOTU ? things listed here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo ?
[05:08] <bddebian> ogra: Here is a good example of my problem: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12352
[05:08] <bddebian> pef: UniverseUnmetDeps
[05:08] <ogra> pef, everything with Transition in its name has highest priority
[05:08] <bddebian> pef: Or transitions
[05:08] <ogra> or unmet deps indeed :)
[05:09] <slomo> or other really broken stuff like mplayer/ffmpeg ;)
[05:09] <bddebian> slomo: Oh hush up ;-P
[05:09] <sivang> slomo: I thought your patch was fixin some of the problem last night,no?
[05:09] <pef> ok, sorry for the disturbance, I will be more carefull about motu priority
[05:10] <slomo> bddebian: i'm waiting for elmo to move some stuff to multiverse and then i'll go on with fixing the stuff
[05:10] <slomo> sivang: what patch?
[05:11] <slomo> sivang: it builds now again and works everywhere... but ac3 decoding is broken
[05:11] <sivang> slomo: I see
[05:18] <bddebian> OK apparently I'm blacklisted :-)
[05:26] <bddebian> OK, caudium is jacked up
[05:31] <Tm_T> hello hello
[05:31] <bddebian> Hello Tm_T
[05:31] <Tm_T> is there any Kopete package maintainers?
[05:32] <Tm_T> I migt be interested about Kopete and other KDE-related packages
[05:33] <ivoks> kopete is main
[05:33] <ivoks> join #kubuntu
[05:33] <Tm_T> yes, but it's always "stable"
[05:34] <ivoks> Tm_T: #ubuntu-motu is only for universe/multiverse packages
[05:34] <Tm_T> and if it's okay, when they(/we) add something nice/fix...
[05:34] <ivoks> #ubuntu-devel is for main
[05:34] <Tm_T> hum
[05:34] <Tm_T> ok
[05:34] <ivoks> and KDE packages have another channel, #kubuntu
[05:35] <ivoks> probably and kubuntu-devel
[05:35] <Tm_T> yup, I know
[05:35] <Tm_T> I'm sort of seeking my way to help ;)
[05:35] <Tm_T> thanks
[05:35] <ivoks> you can help in many ways
[05:36] <Tm_T> yup
[05:36] <ivoks> bug reporting, translating, etc...
[05:36] <pef> question about MOTUGLUTransition : if a package has only xlibmesa-gl-dev instead of xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, should I put libgl1-mesa-dev or libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev  ?
[05:36] <Tm_T> bugs <3
[05:36] <Tm_T> ;-P
[05:36] <ivoks> pef: put both
[05:36] <Tm_T> bddebian: =)
[05:37] <ivoks> pef: policy could change in future, so it's better to have them both
[05:37] <Tm_T> I'm reading trough ToDo page(s) now
[05:38] <ivoks> bddebian: do you know python?
[05:38] <bddebian> ivoks: A little.  I'll learn :-)
[05:38] <bddebian> Can someone look at this and upload?: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11614
[05:38] <ivoks> bddebian: i tought, maybe you would like to help me with one project...
[05:38] <bddebian> ivoks: I'll help if I can.
[05:39] <pef> ivoks: but why libgl-dev, if it doesn't exists ? libgl1-xorg-dev exists.
[05:39] <ivoks> bddebian: take pygtk reference guide and some tutorials and help me develope one app
[05:39] <bddebian> gtk.. Eeks :-)
[05:40] <ivoks> pef: it could exsist in future
[05:40] <ivoks> pef: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-July/008771.html
[05:40] <ivoks> As of -35, libglu-xorg-dev | libglu-dev is the recommended way to do
[05:40] <ivoks> things.  This will be portable across Debian and Ubuntu.
[05:41] <pef> ivoks: ok, I understand, thanks !
[05:44] <bddebian> ivoks: I have an extremely long meeting in about 10mins but remind me. :-)
[05:44] <ivoks> bddebian: ?
[05:44] <bddebian> ivoks: About your project :-)
[05:44] <ivoks> ah, ok
[05:45] <ivoks> anyone else interested in developing pygtk app?
[05:47] <Tm_T> ok, I'll be back ->
[05:47] <slomo> ivoks: what kind of app?
[05:47] <ivoks> slomo: backup frontend
[05:48] <ivoks> gui
[05:48] <ivoks> :)
[05:48] <ivoks> slomo: i did something till now...
[05:48] <ivoks> slomo: i just need someone to kick me and work with me... :)
[05:49] <bddebian> OK meeting time, later gang :-(
[05:51] <ivoks> slomo: interested?
[05:53] <ivoks> slomo: interested?
[05:54] <ivoks> slomo: if you don't know it, python is easy to understand and pygtk is simple...
[05:54] <pef> ivoks: when I have fixed a package for GLUTransition, should I link the debdiff in the wiki page ? I can't see one for the moment
[05:54] <slomo> ivoks: backup stuff is nothing for me ;)
[05:55] <ivoks> slomo: that's like "it's pice of cake" or "i'm not interested"? :)
[05:55] <ivoks> pef: wouldn't know... i would fix some packages allready, but i don't have upload rights...
[05:56] <slomo> ivoks: not interested... when i have nothing else todo and when i'm bored like hell i would do... or when it is something i like ;)
[05:57] <ivoks> slomo: ok
[05:57] <pef> ivoks: ok
[05:59] <pef> siretart: hi, I see you have corrected some packages for GLUTransition, I try to work on some packages, but how can I submit my corrections ? link on the wikipage to a debdiff ?
[06:06] <ivoks> huh!
[06:06] <ivoks> http://joshuawise.com/bounty
[06:08] <siretart> pef: that would be best, I think. you may also poke some motu with time to review your debdiffs
[06:08] <ivoks> that's 30.000$
[06:08] <siretart> lol
[06:09] <pef> siretart: ok, thanks !
[06:10] <ivoks> what's funny... i had that working on my laptop :/
[06:11] <ivoks> hm...
[06:26] <rbelem> hey ogra where can i get a list of packages that already or being packed to ubuntu?
[06:29] <pef> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFileExampleFiles is outdated no ? not all required fileds specified into http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-0.9.4.html#recognized-keys are present, should I update this wikipage ?
[06:29] <pef> s/are/are not/
[06:32] <Mitario> heya eya again
[06:33] <Mitario> slomo, contacted mako yet? :)
[06:36] <Mitario> is \sh on vacation btw?
[06:40] <slomo> Mitario: yes... juniper training afaik
[06:41] <slomo> Mitario: and i pinged mako today ;) please ping him too :P
[06:41] <Mitario> yeah I did this afternoon :p
[06:41] <slomo> did he answer?
[06:41] <Mitario> nope
[06:42] <slomo> grmpf
[06:43] <slomo> i hate this :P as if it was too much work to check a signed CoC in 3 months (for ivoks), 1 month (for me) and 2 weeks (for you)
[06:45] <Mitario> true, but if you have big things on your mind, you usually don't think of such small things
[06:45] <Mitario> I have that problem at my office sometimes to
[06:46] <Mitario> I'm designing a big project, and i know I have some e-mails to reply to, but I just don't come to them
[06:46] <Mitario> 3 months is a bit long though ;)
[06:46] <Mitario> but that was maybe due to the miscommunication/interpretation of the key procedure
[06:47] <slomo> 1 month is a bit long too imho ;)
[06:47] <Mitario> true true
[06:49] <Mitario> woohoo, my GNOME nl bussinesscards are in :)
[06:49] <slomo> do you have some fotos?
[06:51] <Mitario> uuh sec :)
[07:00] <slomo> Mitario: still alive? or bluescreen on your phone? ;)
[07:00] <Mitario> yeah installing bluetooth stuff :)
[07:11] <Mitario> slomo, http://www.antoniuscollege.nl/~msikkes/bussiness
[07:13] <slomo> Mitario: forbidden
[07:18] <slomo> what version is higher: 1.0-pre7cvs20050716-0.1ubuntu3 ot
[07:18] <slomo> or 1.0-pre7try2-0buntu1?
[07:18] <mbreit> lol... who uses such version numbers??
[07:19] <slomo> the mplayer guys :P we're currently at -pre7try2
[07:19] <slomo> and this fixes something importan :P
[07:19] <mbreit> ;)
[07:21] <ogra> slomo, dpkg --compare-versions <v1> {gt,lt,eq} <v2> && echo true
[07:21] <slomo> ogra: thanks :)
[07:30] <Mitario> slomo, und jetzt?
[07:30] <slomo> Mitario: funktioniert... schaut gut aus :) but wrong language :P
[07:31] <ogra> lol
[07:31] <Mitario> pff ;)
[07:31] <Mitario> fear your left-neighbours :)
[07:32] <ogra> Mitario, fear your right one, i have only 80km to the border ...
[07:32] <ogra> ;)
[07:32] <Mitario> ogra, luckily I'm near the sea ;-)
[07:32] <ogra> heh
[07:33] <Mitario> ogra, which would be a relative small distance for you though :)
[07:33] <ogra> i'm too southern.... its still a long travel :)
[07:43] <Riddell> what's the upload address for REVU?  old one refuses me
[07:44] <Mitario> Riddell, revu.tauware.de
[07:44] <Riddell> Uploading via ftp icecc_0.6-20050413-1ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of icecc_0.6-20050413-1ubuntu1.dsc
[07:48] <Treenaks> 3
[08:06] <rbelem> hey Mitario is there someone working in cinelerra? that is a universe candidate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[08:06] <Mitario> I wouldn't know sorry :)
[08:07] <Mitario> but we can't add new packages in universe yet
[08:07] <mbreit> Mitario: well, we can? (at least i think so..)
[08:07] <slomo> s/yet/anymore/
[08:07] <ryanthiessen> universe is frozen?
[08:08] <Mitario> slomo, well in october we can :)
[08:08] <Mitario> well after thatis
[08:08] <slomo> ryanthiessen: not really... when you find enough people who just _want_ this package and some motu to advocate... ;)
[08:08] <ryanthiessen> ah okay good
[08:08] <rbelem> Mitario: ok, but i see that no one is working on it, can i add my name in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates how someone that is working in this package?
[08:08] <slomo> ryanthiessen: but NEW packages are last priority now
[08:09] <Mitario> rbelem, I guess that's fine :)
[08:09] <rbelem> Mitario: cool ;-)
[08:09] <mbreit> rbelem: you can do that, but it would be better to focus on bugfixing/transitions
[08:09] <slomo> mbreit: i finally fixed ac3 playback with mplayer :)
[08:10] <mbreit> slomo: yeah...
[08:10] <rbelem> mbreit: thats true ;-) where can i find a list of packages that is "work in need"?
[08:10] <mbreit> rbelem: bugs: launchpad.net/malone
[08:11] <mbreit> rbelem: unmet deps: wiki->UniverseUnmetDeps
[08:11] <mbreit> rbelem: transitions: somewhere else in the wiki...
[08:11] <rbelem> heheheh
[08:11] <slomo> rbelem: for transitions see the topic
[08:12] <rbelem> pretty cool ;-) i'll work in these packages now
[08:13] <rbelem> thx Mitario mbreit slomo ;-)
[08:13] <slomo> rbelem: but first try if this is really relevant anymore ;) the wiki is often outdated
[08:13] <Mitario> np )
[08:13] <mbreit> rbelem: np, thanks for working on ubuntu ;)
[08:13] <rbelem> ;-)
[09:22] <Mitario> slomo, any word from elmo yet? :)
[09:23] <slomo> Mitario: we first need mako ;)
[09:23] <Mitario> yeah that too :p
[10:19] <encolpe> Hi hub
[10:20] <encolpe> Have you seen herve tonight ?
[11:36] <jbailey> What's the best way to get something sync'd from Debian?
[11:36] <jbailey> There are no Ubuntu-specific changes, so I'm  surprised it hasn't come already.
[11:37] <lifeless> tell elmo last I heard
[11:38] <jbailey> 'kay.  Is email best for that?
[11:39] <lifeless> I've seen folk ask him on u-d
[11:39] <lifeless> uhm #u-d
[11:39] <lifeless> so, dunno ;0. Not being distro team ...
[11:40] <jbailey> *lol*
[11:40] <mbreit> jbailey: tell him on #ubuntu-devel, if he does not get that, send him a mail
[11:40] <jbailey> I know that we ask there for stuff in main, wasn't sure if universe was handled differently (Just thinking because of the volume)
[11:40] <jbailey> mbreit: Thanks.