[17:57] <mh0> Hiya. I've had a application "In review" for about 2 weeks now, I was wondering what a ETA could be for such apps?
[18:02] <dpm> mh0, which app is it? Perhaps ajmitch or highvoltage can help?
[18:02] <mh0> It's named "Clock"
[18:14] <highvoltage> dpm: I could perhaps, I don't think I ahve arb rights back yet though (but should soon)
[18:16] <dpm> highvoltage, yeah, but I was thinking in terms of reviewing it, not uploading it
[18:16] <highvoltage> mh0: have a link for me?
[18:17] <highvoltage> the name already sounds like it could be a problem if it's that generic, but I'll check in the package name itself
[18:17] <mh0> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/2016/
[18:18] <highvoltage> mh0: ok, checking it now, it does seem like you'll have to change the name, though
[18:18] <mh0> Yeah, kinda thought that
[18:19] <mh0> I really should be more creative in terms of names.
[18:19] <highvoltage> mh0: thinking of good, original names for things is really hard
[18:19] <highvoltage> almost no one gets it right :)
[18:20] <mh0> Indeed
[18:21] <highvoltage> mh0: I ran the .deb I got in that zip file through lintian, it reported some problems worth addressing:
[18:21] <highvoltage> E: clock: arch-independent-package-contains-binary-or-object opt/Clock/libffmpegsumo.so
[18:21] <highvoltage> so "all" should probably be changed to "any" in the debian control file
[18:21] <mh0> Right, okies
[18:21] <mh0> Then re-upload?
[18:22] <highvoltage> yep
[18:22] <highvoltage> it's complaining about some spelling mistakes too. that's minor, but I suggest you run lintian too and then fix those for what it's worth
[18:22] <highvoltage> mh0: does the clock play videos or something?
[18:23] <highvoltage> mh0: there are embedded video codecs in there :)
[18:23] <mh0> Hm, I'm sure its needed for node-webkit
[18:23] <highvoltage> if it does indeed need them, then you need to depend on the codecs already in the archives and remove them from your package
[18:24] <highvoltage> eek, it also contains openssl, zlib, libjpeg, libxml2, libpng, sqlite...
[18:24] <highvoltage> you'll have to remove all of those and use the libraries already provided by Ubuntu
[18:25] <highvoltage> mh0: ok, so running lintian on your package and working through the report it gives you will pretty much give you a lot of things worth fixing already
[18:25] <mh0> Hm, I'll check more on how to package node-webkit apps for ubuntu
[18:25] <mh0> if you could then put all of the fixes back to me I can have a look at them
[18:30] <highvoltage> mh0: I'm afraid you'll have to fix them
[18:30] <mh0> Yep, I understand that


[01:24] <slangasek> so this is a problem that's plagued me for a while
[01:25] <slangasek> how can I see on a system what processes have connected to a particular unix socket?
[01:25] <slangasek> netstat, lsof, etc. seem to only show the listener
[01:28] <slangasek> boo, stackoverflow thinks it's not possible without hacks on the kernel. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11897662/identify-other-end-of-a-unix-domain-socket-connection


[01:55] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: I've verified that the extension works :)
[02:07] <darkxst> infinity, oh the symlink was borked, can you take a look at this fix http://pastebin.com/ttxZLdxP
[02:16] <infinity> slangasek: ^-- Can you sponsor/review that for Tim?
[02:50] <cyphermox> infinity: slangasek: I will sponsor that ^ if you haven't already taken care of it
[02:54] <sarnold> cyphermox: is the destination of that symlink correct? it's still /root/etc/..
[02:54] <cyphermox> the file needs to go in /root, but what it links to should be the path without /root
[02:54] <cyphermox> the diff looks correct to me
[02:55] <sarnold> thanks
[02:55] <cyphermox> this is because casper runs outside the chroot where our live system is
[02:56] <sarnold> I always think of /root as a user directory, for uid 0 .. not as a mount point. It kinda hurts my head. :)
[02:57] <cyphermox> ;)
[04:09] <darkxst> cyphermox, thanks!
[04:10] <cyphermox> np
[04:33] <tjaalton> doko: i don't have time to wait for it to get past debian NEW, there's no diff
[04:50] <Mirv> pitti: morning. if you want to look at one before I publish the silo, here's one stuck Test in progress: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/static/britney/vivid/landing-010/excuses.html
[05:40] <cpaelzer> good monring
[05:40] <cpaelzer> may be too early for a well typed morning :-)
[05:50] <ginggs_> morning pitti, thanks for htop!
[05:51] <pitti> Good morning
[05:52] <pitti> Mirv: right, let me look into the logs in some 10 mins
[06:22] <tjaalton> pitti: hi, you might remember working with mlankhorst 2y ago on xorg-lts-transitional? any idea why the packages were limited to just amd64 & i386?
[06:22] <tjaalton> this package was added to trusty to allow upgrades from lts-foo stacks
[06:22] <tjaalton> and I had no idea about it until yesterday :P
[06:23] <pitti> tjaalton: yes, I think we discussed the upgrade approach back then; but no idea why it's limited to these arches
[06:24] <pitti> tjaalton: perhaps because we only did the enablement stacks on those?
[06:25] <tjaalton> well they are built on every arch but I guess there are no desktop images for other than these
[06:26] <tjaalton> images that use an lts stack
[06:51] <pitti> Mirv: I followed up to bug 1571353
[06:51] <pitti> Mirv: so the tests actually did run, but there's something between ci train and britney that doesn't pick them up
[06:51] <pitti> Mirv: I asked robru about getting a debug log
[06:52] <robru> pitti: Hmmmmmmm?
[06:53] <robru> pitti: you want me to re enable -v on the britney runs?
[06:53] <pitti> (OTP, brb)
[06:59] <pitti> robru: yes, that would be nice; either in production, or an one-off run
[07:26] <robru> pitti: Mirv: ok I added the -v flag back, you should see the verbose logs in the next run, maybe ~1hr
[07:26] <pitti> robru: cool, thanks
[07:27] <robru> yw
[07:39] <Mirv> pitti: thank you for looking into it
[07:46] <pitti> mwhudson: so, I started another run from your branch with -s, and will let you ssh into the testbed right after the failure happens
[07:46] <pitti> mwhudson: then we can poke around
[07:46] <mwhudson> pitti: yeah that would be very useful i think
[07:47] <mwhudson> step 1: wtf is actually listening on <IP_ADDRESS>:8443
[08:11] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Did you see we have powerpc images at http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/xenial/current/? ^_^  If you have the time (you don't have much else going on this week, right?), a test would be appreciated. :)
[08:12] <Odd_Bloke> (Getting them in to streams is WIP; I'm poking this along when I have a minute between tamping down release-critical fires, and it doesn't matter too much if this lands post-GA :)
[09:40] <cjwatson> nacc: lazr.restfulclient fix working its way into xenial-proposed now; thanks for the nudge
[09:56] <jtaylor> are there differences between debians ppc64el and ours?
[09:57] <jtaylor> seems like at least some compiler macros are defined in xenial that aren't in unstable
[10:01] <jtaylor> ah no the compiler reports itself as ibm oO
[10:19] <Mirv> pitti: did you get better logs now?
[10:49] <jtaylor> does someone have access to a ppc64el box for a quick test?
[10:49] <jtaylor> not necessary as I can likely fix it without access but I am curious what the compiler doing
[11:02] <pitti> Mirv: yes, I did, and I just finished writing the followup to the bug
[11:02] <pitti> robru: you can disable verbosity again, thanks for your help
[11:02] <pitti> Mirv: it's clear now what happened, I'll restart your lost test
[11:05] <Mirv> pitti: thanks a lot! the silo is already gone through QA so I was just holding off for getting this debugged which should help people in the future.
[11:05] <Mirv> pitti: interestingly the silo was already britney approved last week (which is why it went to QA queue), but at some point I noticed all of its tests, including passed ones, were restarted.
[11:05] <pitti> Mirv: ah! well, nothing lost except for some additional universe heating then :)
[11:06] <Mirv> :)
[11:06] <pitti> Mirv: hm, that's curious -- it should see the previously passed results then
[11:06] <pitti> unless the whole silo got cleared
[11:06] <pitti> or did that involve a followup upload? (this would re-trigger all tests)
[11:06] <Mirv> pitti: nothing happened in the silo, I guessed it was some sort of global restart of things.
[11:07] <Mirv> the silo has stood still since last Wednesday
[11:07] <pitti> Mirv: ok, whatever then :) I understand what's going on, I'll think about how to solve this in the least possible ugly way
[11:07] <Mirv> yet something caused that. so I noticed it from the fact that suddenly bileto showed "Running" instead of "Approved"
[11:07] <Mirv> thank you again for looking into it
[11:13] <sveinse> What is the difference from Ubuntu core and a system which is debootstrapped?
[11:16] <pitti> jtaylor: can test something for you if you want
[11:16] <jtaylor> pitti: if you have time great, I already fixed the problem but my curiousity remains :)
[11:17] <pitti> meh, no xenial schroot on the porter box; -- moving to a scalingstack instance
[11:18] <pitti> jtaylor: so what do you want me to run?
[11:19] <jtaylor> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15928177/
[11:19] <jtaylor> should be cat ftest.s, not cat test.s
[11:23] <pitti> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15928232/
[11:23] <pitti> jtaylor: that's actually the first piece of Fortran that I'm looking at, from the last 20 or so years :)
[11:23] <jtaylor> pitti: thx so there is an IBM in there which trips the package up
[11:24] <jtaylor> and also looks like its ubuntu specific which explains why debian is not affected
[11:24] <jtaylor> pitti: if only I could say the same ._.
[11:25] <jtaylor> still ahve to occasionally deal with f77 code, written when f77 was actually new ...
[11:25] <pitti> +  * Update the ibm branch to 20160324.
[11:25] <pitti> jtaylor: ^ in https://patches.ubuntu.com/g/gcc-5/gcc-5_5.3.1-14ubuntu2.patch
[11:25] <pitti> jtaylor: can I delete that ppc instance again, or do you still need anythign?
[11:26] <jtaylor> pitti: no thats it thanks
[11:26] <jtaylor> the ibm in the output in ubuntu is fine its just the package that does a pretty dumb check
[11:26] <jtaylor> it just does essentially grep IBM = ibm compiler
[11:26] <Laney> nice, I was eyeing that failure
[11:26] <jtaylor> Laney: the latest upload has fixed it
[11:27] <Laney> I see that
[11:27] <jtaylor> I did check debian if all arches work first but this was ubuntu specific :/
[11:40] <Laney> barry: sounds like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is caused by the new virtualenv
[12:13] <barry> Laney: see, i don't quite understand that because 15.0.1+ds-2 fixes it for me locally :(
[12:15] <barry> Laney: and the same versions work in an sid chroot
[12:15] <barry> *and* a xenial chroot
[12:15]  * barry retries
[12:16] <barry> at least it will give me time to get some breakfast and caffeine first ;)
[12:16] <Laney> :(
[12:22] <Laney> barry: adt-run --output-dir /tmp/virtualenv/out --timeout-copy=6000 --setup-commands 'if grep -q trusty /etc/lsb-release; then apt-get install -y build-essential; fi; apt-get purge --auto-remove -y ubuntu-snappy-cli || true' --apt-pocket=proposed=src:python-virtualenv --apt-upgrade tox --env=ADT_TEST_TRIGGERS=python-virtualenv/15.0.1+ds-2 --- qemu ~/temp/adt-xenial-amd64-cloud.img
[12:22] <Laney> this makes it reproduce
[12:22] <Laney> with an adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud thing
[12:50] <barry> Laney: okay thanks.  let me see if i can figure out what's up
[13:08] <barry> Laney: so the problem with your reproducer is that it doesn't pick up python-pip-whl 8.1.1-2 which is where one half of the fix is.  if you add ,src:python-pip to the --apt-pocket option, then it does pick up 8.1.1-2 and all the tests pass.  notice in the excuses log file that it is picking up pip 8.1.1-2 but it's still picking up virtualenv 15.0.1+ds-1 but the other half of the fix is from 15.0.1+ds-2.
[13:08] <barry><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:08] <barry> Laney: so why isn't excuses picking up both pip 8.1.1-2 and virtualenv 15.0.1+ds-2?
[13:09] <barry> similarly, the tox failure is picking up python-pip-whl 8.1.1-1 and virtualenv 15.0.1+ds-2
[13:10] <Laney> barry: It's using the smallest amount of stuff possible from -proposed
[13:10] <Laney> do you want a Breaks or something?
[13:11] <barry> Laney: i guess, if that'll make sure the right versions of both are picked up
[13:11] <Laney> barry: We could retry with both, but it seems correct to add it if you need both pieces to have working stuff
[13:11] <barry> Laney: let me look
[13:12] <barry> doesn't help that debian broke my sbuild ;)
[13:13] <barry> maybe just add a Depends: python-pip-whl (>= 8.1.1-2) to virtualenv? (and similar to tox)
[13:13] <barry> Laney: ^^
[13:27] <Laney> barry: Probably just virtualenv is enough?
[13:32] <barry> Laney: possibly.  let's try that first and see.  i'll upload to debian momentarily and syncpackage it over when lp picks it up.  if that's not good enough i'll add a version constraint to tox on virtualenv
[13:32] <barry> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15929623/
[13:32] <Laney> barry: That'll force the new one to be installed, which I think is Good Enough
[13:32] <barry> Laney: +1
[13:33] <Laney> feel free to syncpackage --no-lp imho
[13:33] <barry> Laney: ack
[14:11] <caribou> Excuse the noob's question but I've been running Xenial since the beginning so why is the archive pushing me >500 packages two days from release ?
[14:12] <gQuigs> caribou: what packages?   I maybe got 30 in last two days
[14:14] <caribou> gQuigs: well, 629 packages to be exact so most of everything including LibreOffice, vim, xorg,juju
[14:15] <rbasak> caribou: are you using a mirror that has just been kicked into life perhaps or something?
[14:15] <caribou> rbasak: archive.ubuntu.com
[14:15] <rbasak> There have been many minor (bugfix) updates flowing through recently BTW.
[14:18] <cjwatson> libreoffice was last changed in xenial on 2016-04-08
[14:19] <gQuigs> caribou: I last updated libreoffice on 2016-04-13
[14:19] <cjwatson> perhaps your apt-get update was failing for some reason
[14:20] <caribou> cjwatson: I was on training last week, I didn't do any upgrade during this time so the dates make sense
[14:20] <gQuigs> caribou: do you have IPv6 by any chance?
[14:20] <gQuigs> oh ok
[14:20] <caribou> gQuigs: no still ipv4 but looks like it's normal, sorry for the noise
[14:20] <cjwatson> there you go, so not "two days before release" :)
[14:21] <caribou> cjwatson: indeed
[14:56] <pitti> stgraber, apw, smoser: FYI, I filed bug 1572188 about the underlying bug for the weird lxc test failures
[14:57] <nacc> cjwatson: thanks!
[14:57] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: awesome, thanks!
[14:57] <smoser> pitti, apt-get install distro-info
[14:57] <pitti> smoser: ooh
[14:58] <pitti> smoser: curious, why does it work for precise and trusty then?
[14:58] <smoser> $ grep KNOWN_RELEASES /usr/bin/ubuntu-cloudimg-query
[14:58] <smoser> KNOWN_RELEASES="hardy karmic lucid maverick natty oneiric precise quantal
[14:58] <smoser> 	local releases="${KNOWN_RELEASES}" r=""
[14:58] <pitti> some hardcoded fallback list? (I thought this queries the remote json for available releases, not distro-info)
[14:58] <pitti> aah
[14:59] <smoser> ubutnu-cloud-image-query just needs *really needs* to be replaced by something reading the stream data.
[15:02] <pitti> smoser: thanks for this
[15:02] <stgraber> I guess it recommends distro-info but doesn't depend on it or something?
[15:02] <pitti> yep
[15:02] <stgraber> and we somehow had some images that did have it for whatever reasons, explaining the random results
[15:03] <pitti> stgraber: I think I know this
[15:03] <stgraber> pitti: is distro-info something we should have in the adt image or do you prefer a new test dep on lxc instead?
[15:03] <pitti> stgraber: for a while now creating adt images on lcy01 has failed
[15:03] <smoser> it is a recommends.
[15:03] <stgraber> ah, so old images have it, new ones do or something
[15:03] <pitti> stgraber: so sometimes we run tests on full fat cloud images (on lcy01), and sometimes on adt images (on lgw01 or bos01)
[15:03] <pitti> and the latter are minimized and presumably don't have distro-info
[15:03] <stgraber> smoser: yeah, won't do us much good since adt doesn't pull recommends
[15:04] <pitti> stgraber: well, you can tell it to
[15:04] <pitti> Either add "Restrictions: needs-recommends" or add "distro-info" as a test dependency
[15:04] <pitti> (just wrote that to the bug)
[15:04] <stgraber> oh, then I guess I should do that everywhere because that's kinda what we expect with it being the distro default :)
[15:04] <smoser> "The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. "
[15:04] <pitti> well, depends what you want to test
[15:04] <stgraber> I want to test the thing my users will get
[15:04] <stgraber> which means, having the recommends
[15:04] <smoser> unless you want to test unusual installations :)
[15:04] <pitti> if you want to verify that your recommends are really optional, then you don't want that
[15:05] <hallyn> for days now i've not been able to update my xenial laptop, alwyas get Hash Sum mismatches
[15:05] <stgraber> well, someone installing lxc with --no-install-recommends wouldn't be getting the templates at all :)
[15:05] <pitti> stgraber: anyway, let me know if I should upload lxc with that, or you want to do it from teh airpirt
[15:05] <pitti> airport too
[15:05] <smoser> hallyn, hm... those shoudl be gone the way of the dinosaur
[15:05] <stgraber> pitti: I can do it
[15:06] <hallyn> smoser: ...
[15:06] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1430011
[15:06] <smoser> and http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/blog/no-more-hash-sum-mismatch-errors.html
[15:06] <pitti> hallyn: using apt-cacher-ng by any chance?
[15:06] <smoser> so that is interesting that you see it.
[15:06] <hallyn> smoser: then i call that a big fat fail :)
[15:06] <hallyn> yeah
[15:06] <hallyn> i was thinking i should turn it off for a bit, but...
[15:06] <smoser> There will still be some people who won’t yet benefit from this. debmirror doesn’t support by-hash yet; apt-cacher-ng only supports it as of xenial, although there’s an easy configuration workaround
[15:06] <pitti> hallyn: I had lots of troubles with that until cjwatson helpfully pointed out /etc/apt-cacher-ng/backends_ubuntu
[15:06] <smoser> (see the cjwatson link there, hallyn)
[15:06] <pitti> hallyn: for me this was pointing to "de.archive.ubuntu.com",  i. e. it would divert all requests to *archive.ubuntu.com to that
[15:07] <pitti> hallyn: which caused hash sum mismatches to no end
[15:07] <smoser> pitti, we can update cloud-utils if yiou want.
[15:07] <hallyn> pitti: so you removed it?  pointed it to locahost?
[15:07] <smoser> to contain 'xenial'
[15:07] <pitti> I changed that to just a.u.c. and I've never gotten it ever since
[15:07] <hallyn> a?
[15:07] <cjwatson> I raised this in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=819852; no response yet
[15:07] <cjwatson> a = archive
[15:07] <pitti> hallyn: archive.ubuntu.com
[15:08] <hallyn> cjwatson: oh, so i should turn it off?
[15:08] <pitti> hallyn: well, full contents is: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[15:08] <hallyn> pitti: ok, thats where mine is pointing
[15:08] <stgraber> pitti: uploaded
[15:08] <hallyn> no, us.archive...  ok lemme try dropping us.
[15:08] <pitti> hallyn: hmm, so it's not that then; for me that was it
[15:08] <cjwatson> hallyn: that's not what I said :)
[15:08] <cjwatson> hallyn: dropping us.archive.ubuntu.com from /etc/apt-cacher-ng/backends_ubuntu will probably indeed deal with it for the moment
[15:08] <pitti> stgraber: cheers
[15:08] <hallyn> cjwatson: i'm having a hard time following
[15:08] <stgraber> pitti: didn't test to see if we may need more than that though, not enough bandwidth for that, but since all the other tests passed, that should really be it
[15:08] <cjwatson> hallyn: just interleaved IRC conversations
[15:09] <cjwatson> hallyn: my last-but-one statement is in agreement with pitti, so do that
[15:09] <hallyn> neither emptying the file nor using http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ seems to help
[15:10] <pitti> stgraber: should be fine
[15:10] <hallyn> do i need to apt clean?
[15:10] <cjwatson> hallyn: apt-get -oDebug::Acquire::http=1 -oDebug::Hashes=1 update
[15:10] <cjwatson> hallyn: apt clean -> no, that's entirely useless here
[15:12] <hallyn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15931040/ and http://paste.ubuntu.com/15931043/
[15:14] <pitti> that doesn't look like a hash sum mismatch
[15:14] <pitti> just google's repo not being signed enough
[15:14] <pitti> I had that too, I just removed it
[15:14] <cjwatson> indeed, I see no hash sum mismatches there.
[15:15] <cjwatson> I'm happy to debug a hash sum mismatch, but only if you can show me update output with those debug options that actually exhibits a hash sum mismatch
[15:15] <hallyn> d'oh, sorry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15931102/
[15:15] <hallyn> i pasted the same file twice
[15:15] <cjwatson> that's a mismatch on debs, rather than on indexes
[15:15] <cjwatson> which suggests apt-cacher-ng has cached corrupt data

[15:15] <hallyn> ok
[15:15] <cjwatson> you may shrug but it's important!
[15:16] <cjwatson> I would probably rm -rf the relevant bit of apt-cacher-ng's cache and start again
[15:16] <cjwatson> it's clearly got itself hopelessly lost
[15:16] <rbasak> There was an apt bug causing deb download corruption.
[15:16] <hallyn> ok, lemme rm -rf its cache
[15:16]  * rbasak looks
[15:16] <cjwatson> those files don't change content without changing URL and never have
[15:17] <hallyn> so it seems to me this should be self-healing
[15:17] <cjwatson> I've seen acng corrupting data in the past, but not for a while
[15:17] <rbasak> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=810796
[15:17] <hallyn> i'm on the road,  there's a good chance acng isn't entirely to blame,
[15:17] <rbasak> Should be fixed in the archive.
[15:17] <cjwatson> it can probably only be self-healing with cooperation from acng
[15:18] <rbasak> But if it's regressed or soemthing, then turning off HTTP pipelining may help.
[15:18] <cjwatson> if it's cached lies and persistently continues to serve them, there's not a whole lot apt can do
[15:18] <hallyn> cjwatson: as a naive user, seems like it should be able to tell acng "that doesn't seem right, try again"
[15:19] <cjwatson> hallyn: that still requires cooperation from acng ...
[15:19] <hallyn> of course
[15:19] <hallyn> why is that bad?
[15:19] <cjwatson> it's not, but it's what I said above and you appeared to be contradicting me?
[15:20] <hallyn> hm, no, wasn't contradicting you
[15:20] <cjwatson> AFAICS apt-cacher-ng does not implement the relevant cache-busting headers at all
[15:20] <hallyn> there are such headers?
[15:20] <cjwatson> it just entirely ignores stuff like Pragma: no-cache and Cache-Control
[15:21] <hallyn> might be something i could look into this spring
[15:22] <cjwatson> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.9
[15:24] <cjwatson> the thing that's needed would be for it to implement Cache-Control: max-age=<seconds>, I think
[15:25] <hallyn> is apt sending that now?
[15:25] <cjwatson> no, but it's the basic mechanism that would be necessary to recover from this sort of thing
[15:26] <hallyn> seems like 'fetch url1;  hash some mismatch; fetch url1?refetch' would more directly fix it
[15:26] <cjwatson> apt could at least conceivably send it as an attempt to recover from a hash mismatch on a package
[15:26] <hallyn> but i guess that doesn't fit into the spec
[15:26] <cjwatson> hallyn: the "refetch" step in your pseudocode would need to be implemented by adding the Cache-Control: max-age=0 header
[15:26] <hallyn> right
[15:27] <hallyn> ok, maybe i'll look into that, thx
[15:27] <cjwatson> np
[15:27] <cjwatson> just for clarity, this is unrelated to any of the stuff I changed recently
[15:27] <hallyn> cjwatson: right,
[15:30] <hallyn> and i think i know wha thappened - damned internet provider a few days ago redirected requests to their signin page and corrupted apt-cache-ng.  so yeah i want to code the automatic fix for that
[15:31] <cjwatson> right, captive portals are the work of the devil
[15:31] <cjwatson> apt itself is a lot better at dealing with those than it used to be
[15:31] <cjwatson> i.e. it doesn't save stuff that doesn't validate
[15:31] <cjwatson> but I don't think acng is clever enough for that :-/
[15:32] <cjwatson> so that's a separate fix, if acng understood the current state of the archive it's trying to fetch well enough, it could just not cache resources that can't possibly fit into it.  I don't know if that's feasible within acng's design
[15:32] <hallyn> and then once google chrome gets redirected it caches that value, and send sme back to the portal every time until i go to settings to clear all cached pages :)
[15:32] <hallyn> hm, yeah, that could be simpler
[15:32] <hallyn> and good enough for me
[15:33] <cjwatson> I suspect that right now it doesn't parse the archive's index files in enough detail to be able to do that
[15:34] <cjwatson> probably something to discuss with upstream before thinking about implementing it
[15:36] <cyphermox> hallyn: NM can help you distinguish if you're behind a captive portal, if it helps
[15:36] <hallyn> cyphermox: NM can't even find my mr3020 hotspot half the time
[15:37] <cyphermox> o.O?
[15:37] <hallyn> cyphermox: but the problem is captive portals which randomly and frequently recet
[15:37] <hallyn> (crappy-ass tengo internet in particular)
[15:37] <hallyn> reset even
[15:38] <cyphermox> yeah, but that's what I'm saying, it can poll some website of your choosing, look for a string, every $interval
[15:38] <hallyn> so it's not at connect time - apt is going along fine, then it resends me to the portal
[15:38] <hallyn> right but interval isn't actually regular.  sometimes it's every day, sometimes every 2 minutes (at the same location)
[15:38] <cyphermox> and flip a key available in DBus that tells whether you have local or global connectivity (global meaning said website got the string)
[15:38] <hallyn> they really are broken...
[15:38] <cyphermox> ok
[15:38] <hallyn> i had a script doing it by hand, every 5 minutes - still not good enough :)
[15:39] <cyphermox> ok
[15:39] <cyphermox> threaten them with less money?
[15:39] <hallyn> cyphermox: now maybe i should be doing something like keeping a connection open and detecting when it's hung
[15:39] <hallyn> hah, the curse of free
[15:39] <cyphermox> oh ;)
[15:39] <hallyn> i *should* get satelite internet.  but $$
[15:39] <cyphermox> hallyn: what kind of internet right now?
[15:40] <hallyn> now meanwhile, yes, i shoudl file a bug on NM and my hotspot.  soemtimes it just doesn't find it
[15:40] <cyphermox> maybe you could do some keepalive magic.
[15:40] <hallyn> cyphermox: at this very moemnt, it's tengo internet at an rv park in austin.
[15:40] <cyphermox> right, but that's wifi?
[15:40] <cyphermox> or dialup?
[15:40] <hallyn> oh, yeah.
[15:41] <hallyn> so a ubiquity m.2 rocket connected to tengo internet, with tp-link mr-3020 serving that to other devices
[15:41] <hallyn> sometimes NM doesn't find th emr-3020, so i use scripts manually using wpa-supplicant :(
[15:41] <hallyn> 'manually'
[15:41] <hallyn> what kind of logs can i provide for a bug report?
[15:42] <cyphermox> pretty much just syslog would have everything
[15:42] <hallyn> 'sudo dmesg', or journalctl -u network-manager or something?
[15:42] <cyphermox> NM just gets whatever wpasupplicant returns, but it has some issues in wily, and different issues in xenial
[15:42] <cyphermox> nah, /var/log/syslog
[15:42] <hallyn> i'm on xenial atm,
[15:43] <hallyn> ok, i'll switch back to n-m after a meeting and file a bug when it happens
[15:43] <hallyn> thx
[15:43] <hallyn> i should see if nmcli usage has changed recently too....
[15:59] <nacc> slangasek: fyi, debian testing may just remove php-horde-mongo; not sure if we'd want to follow suit (it's one of our two remaining known-broken packages). Only has reverse-recommends in the archive, and will probably need to add a new package (https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-php-library) which Debian is not planning on adding
[16:00] <slangasek> nacc: yes, removal is fine/appropriate; file a bug?
[16:01] <nacc> slangasek: ack, will do
[16:03] <bdmurray> pitti: Will you be testing the SRUs in bug 1560797? If not I can do it.
[16:12] <Ajith> Hi
[16:20] <Ajith> Hi my name is Ajith kumar, I am a newbie to the world of Linux environment. I started working with Ubuntu for the past few weeks and i am eager to contribute to the the vibrant community and i have absolutely no idea how to get started.Can some Guide me what to do?  P.S:I am a Computer science student and interested to work in coding part.
[16:23] <Pici> !contribute | Ajith there are some good links here
[16:28] <Ajith> Thank you for your help ubottu and Pici
[16:54] <jtaylor> doko: fyi a numpy delta and the fftw delta could now be dropped due to build depends on universe for main being allowed now
[16:55] <jtaylor> numpy is just for plots in the docs and fftw is an mpi library which can stay in universe
[17:17] <slangasek> nacc: archive removals, ~ubuntu-archive should be subscribed (done for bug #1564103)
[17:19] <nacc> slangasek: ack, was just about to, sorry
[17:24] <slangasek> nacc: ok - figured that might be the case, but you subscribed me first so I interfered ;)
[17:24] <nacc> slangasek: absolutely, appreciate it :)
[17:32] <pitti> bdmurray: I'll do some tests, but if you have a setup ready for doing upgrade tests with that, that'd be appreicated of course
[17:33] <bdmurray> pitti: I did wily already
[17:33] <pitti> bdmurray: oh wow, thanks
[18:21] <tkamppeter> infinity, hi
[18:25] <infinity> tkamppeter: I'm getting there.
[18:25] <infinity> tkamppeter: You're in a queue.
[18:26] <sarnold> .. all alike
[18:27] <tkamppeter> OK
[18:27] <infinity> pitti: You still around?
[19:00] <pitti> infinity: I am now (for another hour or so)
[19:00] <Laney> pitti: did you do anything to fix lxd before?
[19:00] <pitti> Laney: sorry, before what?
[19:00] <infinity> pitti:
[19:00] <infinity> Apr 19 12:24:20 nosferatu systemd-fsck[574]: /dev/sda1: 7 files, 7094/489976 clusters
[19:01] <infinity> pitti: ^-- That line's hitting the console on boot.   lolwut.
[19:01] <Laney> It had some proxy / network problem, but then started passing
[19:01] <Laney> The latest upload is failing again
[19:01] <Laney> Wondering if you did some magic or if it's a real bug
[19:01] <infinity> pitti: Purely cosmetic, but between that and 1 line from the kernel, we're close to a completely quiet boot.
[19:02] <pitti> Laney: hm, no; my first reaction was that it might depend on whether it runs on lcy01 (standard cloud images) vs. lgw01 (minimized adt images), but we purge lxd on lcy01 too
[19:02] <pitti> infinity: oh dear, I smell some plymouth ordering/race again
[19:03] <pitti> Laney: not sure what you mean, http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/l/lxd/xenial/amd64/ looks pretty good?
[19:03] <pitti> Laney: or do you mean lxc?
[19:03] <Laney> pitti: oh, whoops, brain fart, I mean snapd
[19:03] <Laney> s/lxd/snapd/g
[19:04] <pitti> Laney: don't do that :)
[19:04] <pitti> infinity: oh, wait, yeah -- that's initramfs
[19:05] <pitti> infinity: when we merged that from debian the last time, fsck and r/w mount of / moved into initramfs
[19:05] <infinity> pitti: Oh, right.
[19:05] <infinity> pitti: So, would be nice to figure out how to shut that up on !error.
[19:05] <pitti> back then I mentinoed that this will give us non-pretty fsck for root fs, but we didn't seem overly concerned
[19:05] <pitti> infinity: well, fsck might take several minutes, you do want to see this
[19:06] <infinity> If there's an actual fsck, that's a different case than the mount-time fake fsck.
[19:07] <pitti> infinity: yeah, if it's quick it would be nice to hide indeed
[19:08] <pitti> infinity: ah, the thing you quoted above is a "short" one?
[19:08] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, that wasn't a "real" fsck, that's the "you asked me to fsck a clean filesystem, so I didn nothing" fsck.
[19:08] <infinity> pitti: ie: I see it on every boot.
[19:09] <infinity> Oh!
[19:09] <infinity> That's not even my root.
[19:09] <infinity> That's the EFI filesystem.
[19:09] <infinity> Hence having "7 files". :P
[19:11] <pitti> ah ok, so that should be under the control of the real root then
[19:12] <infinity> Indeed.
[19:12] <infinity> Hence why it's systemd-fsck, and in the journal.
[19:12] <pitti> Laney: I interpreted http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/snapd/xenial/amd64/ as "1.9.3 was broken", 1.9.4 fixed, and 2.0.2 introduced another failure
[19:13] <infinity> But maybe the one we saw was from the initramfs.
[19:13] <pitti> Laney: and the first and second result both ran on lgw (i. e. on a minimized adt image), so not much infra difference there
[19:14] <infinity> pitti: We're going to have another look before blaming systemd.  I think your theory makes more sense.
[19:14] <pitti> Laney: did you already try running this locally?
[19:14] <Laney> pitti: I'm suspicious because the failures look the same (i.e. what we created a debug instance for mvo to mess around on the other day)
[19:14] <pitti> infinity: I'm trying to reproduce with a fake fsck which takes very long
[19:14] <Laney> Didn't run it myself, will do.
[19:15] <pitti> infinity: it wouldn't surprise me at all if any of this regressed :/
[19:15] <pitti> Laney: the "error: no snaps found for "hello-world"
[19:15] <pitti> ...thingy?
[19:15] <Laney> pitti: Yeah
[19:16]  * Laney runs it
[19:17] <mvo> pitti, Laney: I think its a store issue, I work on this with the store team as we speak
[19:17] <Laney> hey mvo!
[19:17] <Laney> you mean a real bug?
[19:17] <Laney> is that what you found out the other day?
[19:19] <mvo> pitti, Laney: I am waiting for a new rollout, I think this will fix it
[19:19] <mvo> pitti, Laney: however there might be yet another issue, but we fixed the http proxy thing so that should be ok
[19:19] <mvo> the store also moved to a cdn but that should be ok with the proxy fix we did
[19:20] <pitti> infinity: just FAOD, this is with "splash", right?
[19:21] <mvo> Laney, pitti: so hopefulyl in ~1h we have a new store rollout and I will retrigger the tests (I hope I can actually do that)
[19:21] <Laney> yeah, you can if you can upload it
[19:22] <Laney> Ah yeah, this fails locally
[19:22] <pitti> mvo: you can test the retry button now on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#snapd (the machinery is mostly idle, so no harm)
[19:23] <mvo> pitti: excellent, thanks. will do as soon as the store is updated
[19:23] <infinity> pitti: With splash, yes (though you only catch it for a brief flickery moment), shows without too, obviously.
[19:25] <pitti> infinity: hmm, I created a partition for /mnt in fstab, and I get plymouth-y pretty fsck
[19:25] <pitti> (with a fake fsck that takes long)
[19:26]  * pitti runs update-initramfs to get that into the initrd
[19:27] <pitti> for the root fs I seem to have the opposite problem: I *don't* get the fsck output in initramfs
[19:27] <pitti> oh, I see -- it uses bash, and that's not in the initrd
[19:29] <infinity> And shouldn't be...
[19:29] <pitti> right, I just need to change the mock to use sh
[19:35] <infinity> pitti: What have we decided WRT snapd?
[19:35] <pitti> infinity: AFAICT, wait for the store to get fixed (< 1 h) and retrigger the tests?
[19:35] <pitti> that's what mvo asked above, at least
[19:36] <pitti> otherwise I'm fine to hint it in if it blocks stuff
[19:37] <infinity> pitti: Well, it sort of blocks some world rebuilds slightly.
[19:38] <mvo> go and hint if it blocks stuff
[19:38]  * pitti goes and hints
[19:39] <pitti> I went and I hinted :)
[19:41] <cyphermox> !regression-alert
[19:41] <cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/2:3.6.25-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[19:41] <cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1572122
[19:41] <cyphermox> ^ someone pointed me to this
[19:42] <cyphermox> mdeslaur: ^
[19:42] <cyphermox> fwiw; I have two more links about the issue: http://serverfault.com/questions/771388/how-can-i-fix-samba-3-6-25-the-trust-relationship-between-this-workstation-and   http://askubuntu.com/questions/759123/samba-23-6-25-0ubuntu0-12-04-2-as-pdc-samba3-nt4-domain-windows-machines-lost
[19:43] <teward> cyphermox: I should point out this sounds like a known issue in Microsoft's recent patches
[19:43] <teward> (not entirely related, but lots of domain auth issues on w7 after recent patches)
[19:43] <mdeslaur> cyphermox: yeah, it's broken
[19:43] <teward> ^ thats what i guessed though
[19:43] <cyphermox> teward: no idea, I don't know Samba well enough to know, and don't typically run any Windows machines here
[19:43] <mdeslaur> have to wait for fixes from upstream/redhat
[19:43] <cyphermox> mdeslaur: ok
[19:44] <infinity> cyphermox: stgraber and I already yelled at mdeslaur about it.
[19:44] <infinity> (After stgraber's mom yelled at him)
[19:44] <mdeslaur> infinity: unrelated issue
[19:44] <cyphermox> infinity: sorry, I scrolled back and didn't see.
[19:44] <infinity> mdeslaur: Oh.  Two similar breakages?
[19:45] <cyphermox> what's the other issue?
[19:45] <slangasek> cyphermox: can you remind me where that regression-alert is documented? because I'd really like to deprecate it :)  we ought to just use the regression-updates tag on bugs
[19:45] <infinity> Forcing TLS unconditionally.
[19:45] <mdeslaur> infinity: the other one isn't similar, it's that the whole point of the samba update was to disable plain text ldap
[19:45] <infinity> mdeslaur: Well, similar from the bug subject, I didn't click and read it. :P
[19:45] <rbasak> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Regressions
[19:46] <cyphermox> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Regressions
[19:46] <mdeslaur> there are currently 4 different regression from the samba badlock updates
[19:46] <slangasek> infinity: ^^ can I rip !regression-alert out of there? :)
[19:46] <infinity> slangasek: Go nuts.
[19:46] <Unit193> slangasek: Want the trigger gone from ubottu?
[19:47] <rbasak> It is useful to be able to be heard on occasion, as opposed to wondering if somebody's about for something one things is important.
[19:47] <rbasak> (and time-critical)
[19:47] <rbasak> I mean not for any old regression, but one that is actively breaking users and might be worth suspending.
[19:49] <slangasek> rbasak: well, the trigger in question also has a somewhat stale list of people to highlight
[19:49] <rbasak> That's true.
[19:49] <Unit193> Could update it.
[19:50] <rbasak> I suggest updating it and updating the docs to suggest that it be used only in more restricted circumstances.
[19:50] <mdeslaur> feel free to add me to that list
[19:51] <cyphermox> I wouldn't mind seeing those pings either
[19:51] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, the one time I used it it was massive overkill.
[19:51] <Odd_Bloke> Had I realised what it would do, I would just have mentioned it in here and seen what happened.
[19:51] <rbasak> (by an Ubuntu dev perhaps, if not ask for an Ubuntu dev to check on the same channel, and only if suspending the update would be helpful)
[19:53] <pitti> infinity: I finally have an initramfs compatible mock fsck, but when I  boot (the VM) with the default quiet splash $vt_handoff, I just keep the slightly purple plymouth screen and the initrd's fsck happens on VT7
[19:53] <pitti> meh
[19:53] <cyphermox> rbasak: I don't think it's used that often anyway
[19:53] <cyphermox> and not for just any regression either
[19:53] <pitti> I see it being used once a month or less
[19:53] <cyphermox> right
[19:54] <cyphermox> I certainly wouldn't go nuts for a NM regression ;)
[19:54] <cyphermox> shim/grub/boot stuff, maybe more.
[19:54] <infinity> pitti: S'ok.  I'll sort this one out with Andy, lay blame, and fix it in an SRU.  Perfectly pretty boot isn't RC, it's just nice to have. :P
[19:54] <pitti> infinity: did we actually ever manage that?
[19:54] <rbasak> Well, an NM regression in an SRU I'd say is important. Depending on what it is. Since it could break users from updating to a regression fix.
[19:55]  * pitti still remembers some lonesome kernel driver message in quiet mode
[19:55] <cyphermox> rbasak: you can usually still get wired, and the big bad regressions we do catch ahead of time
[19:56] <pitti> infinity: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/fsck-mock-initrd is the mock I replaced /sbin/fsck with, FTR
[19:56] <ogra_> pitti, until u upgraded to xenial my XPS13 never showed me anything but plymouth til lightdm (now i have two  lines of fsck output since the upgrade)
[19:56] <ogra_> so yes, at least on preinstalled OEM hardware we achieved it :)
[19:57] <pitti> we merged initramfs-tools like three months ago, this can hardly be a new thing?
[19:57] <rbasak> cyphermox: not everyone can get wired. This laptop I'm on cannot, and I don't have a dongle that'll work handy.
[19:57] <pitti> so seeing fsck output was actually known; the bit that's not known is *not* seeing it, i. e. hiding it behind plymouth if fsck happens in the initrd
[19:57] <infinity> pitti: Probabaly not new, I think I was blaming the kernel unti lnow.
[19:57] <pitti> actually, we did know that too
[19:57] <infinity> pitti: Don't worry about it.
[19:57] <infinity> pitti: I'll worry for both of us. :P
[19:58] <rbasak> Anyway, my point is that some regressions are bad, and I'd like to shout (and have a good chance of being heard) about time critical ones. That's all.
[19:58] <pitti> infinity: okay :) I guess bedtime then
[19:58] <cyphermox> rbasak: don't upgrade for my next upload then, we started dropping wifi, it was too broken ;P
[19:58] <cyphermox> just kidding, of course
[19:58] <rbasak> :)
[19:59] <pitti> cyphermox: actually, NM 1.2 landed remarkably quietly, well done
[19:59] <rbasak> "wifi support removed due to unreliability issues"
[19:59] <slangasek> yeah, only joking, we've been dropping wifi forever
[19:59] <cyphermox> pitti: so you say.
[19:59] <cyphermox> slangasek: ah ah only serious
[19:59] <rbasak> "tinfoil DoS vulnerability" (cover the aerial)
[19:59] <slangasek> pitti: a little too quietly, right cyphermox?
[20:00]  * slangasek looks at his empty logs
[20:00] <cyphermox> it's not a murder, but it's not as pretty as it seems either
[20:00] <pitti> well, it's not like I'm reading NM bugs, but I didn't hear any complaints
[20:00] <cyphermox> slangasek: on that subject, would you mind bringing up logging in wpasupplicant to 11 and looking if the logging gets better?
[20:00] <slangasek> cyphermox: if you give me directions how
[20:01] <Odd_Bloke> slangasek: It's one louder.
[20:01] <slangasek> Odd_Bloke: look over there, it's a cloud shaped like a velociraptor
[20:01] <pitti> xnox: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#qemu seems to make nova unhappy (uninstallable), can you have a look?
[20:02] <cyphermox> slangasek: add many -d 's to the Exec line in /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1.service
[20:02] <cyphermox> -dd or -ddd would be good
[20:03] <cyphermox> it *will* log a lot more though
[20:04] <pitti> meh, what's up with s390x tests
[20:04] <slangasek> cyphermox: ok.  also the wireless hasn't dropped since yesterday so now it's teasing us
[20:04] <Unit193> cyphermox: So that'd be add you and md, drop Riddell, Scott, skaet, and SpamapS?
[20:04] <cyphermox> why do I always get the heisenbugs?
[20:04] <cyphermox> Unit193: I suppose yeah, unless slangasek really wants to drop it completely
[20:04] <infinity> pitti: I see no reason that should actually be true.
[20:05] <slangasek> cyphermox, Unit193: I honestly don't think it's useful; I think rbasak knows how to get ahold of SRU team members without it, and generally it renders for me as a contentless highlight well after I've read the bug in email (if the bug is tagged appropriately)
[20:05] <slangasek> if you want to omit me from the highlight list that is also ok ;)
[20:06] <cyphermox> if it's not documented, why bother keeping it?
[20:08]  * rbasak shrugs
[20:08] <slangasek> if someone who knows about it wants it there and wants to use it, I don't mind it being there and won't tell other people how to run their bot
[20:08] <rbasak> I don't particularly mind either way.
[20:08] <rbasak> Since I can always highlight people manually if I feel the need as you point out I suppose.
[20:09] <infinity> I don't read mid-line highlights anyway.
[20:09] <rbasak> As long as it doesn't result in some additional delay for some serious could-have-acted regression.
[20:09] <infinity> So lists don't work for me.
[20:10] <rbasak> (I only recall having found one or two since I started Ubuntu development in 2011)
[20:10] <Unit193> So I can talk about infinity all I want and he'd not see it?  Awesome. :D
[20:10]  * Unit193 ducks.
[20:11] <rbasak> I don't particularly mind either way> I suppose that's different to what I said earlier. I'm weakening my objection.
[20:15] <Unit193> !forget regression-alert
[20:15] <Unit193> cyphermox: There you go.
[20:22] <rbasak> Does reverse-depends tell me about the release pocket or the proposed pocket?
[20:22] <tumbleweed> release
[20:22] <rbasak> OK, thanks
[20:33] <pitti> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[20:33] <pitti>  qemu-system : Depends: qemu-system-s390x
[20:33] <pitti> infinity: ^ my xenial-proposed schroot says there is a problem -- maybe just publisher delay from binNEW or so?
[20:33] <pitti>  qemu-system-s390x | 1:2.5+dfsg-5ubuntu9 | xenial-proposed | s390x
[20:33] <pitti> it doesn't exist on any arch but s390x
[20:33] <pitti> but all arches depend on it
[20:34] <pitti> xnox: ^
[20:34] <infinity> pitti: Oh.
[20:34] <infinity> pitti: Yeahp, that's a bug.
[20:34] <slangasek> infinity, pitti: shall I fix?
[20:34] <infinity> slangasek: Go nuts, if you know how.
[20:34] <Laney> Three uploads the charm
[20:34] <infinity> slangasek: The qemu packaging is whack, yo.
[20:34] <pitti> is it meant to exist on all arches, or is the dep only meant to exist on s390x?
[20:34] <infinity> No, it's meant to only exist on s390x due to not having system emulation.
[20:34]  * pitti guesses/hopes the former, would be nice :)
[20:34] <slangasek> it's a kvm implementation, should not exist on other archs
[20:34] <infinity> qemu-system shouldn't depend on it.
[20:34] <pitti> ah, ok
[20:35] <infinity> Note qemu-system doesn't depend on qemu-system-aarch64 for the same reason, so there should be precedence in the packaging.
[20:38] <Unit193> Alright, I'm confused how seed blacklists are supposed to work then, it doesn't appear to as in the manpage.  If I blacklist !foo, and it's in an inherited seed, the manpage says it should still be blacklisted and I see in the output '* Blacklisting foo from bar' but it still ends up in the bar-recommends-arch.  What gives?
[20:40] <pitti> infinity: would you prefer when I fakesync python-virtualenv -3 (to fix the regression in -proposed) now, or wait until tomorrow when it published in Debian and gets imported into LP?
[20:40] <pitti> (see barry's email)
[20:40] <pitti> although, this change looks strange, just saw the diff
[20:41] <infinity> pitti: It's not seeded, don't care about timing.
[20:41] <pitti> ack
[20:43] <slangasek> pitti, infinity: qemu uploaded to fix the bug introduced by that old engineer who refuses to recognize non-mainframes are real architectures
[20:43] <pitti> "old"? :-)
[20:44] <pitti> isn't he like the youngest of us all? :-)
[20:44] <slangasek> pitti: he aged 50 years instantaneously the first time he connected to z/VM
[20:44] <pitti> oh, right -- time acceleration near super-fast machines
[20:45] <pitti> am I glad that this doesn't affect ssh connections
[20:49] <cyphermox> ssh going too fast?
[21:00] <Unit193> cjwatson: Perhaps you can tell me what I'm doing wrong, re: above?
[21:10] <seb128> slangasek, Laney, infinity, /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60x11-common_xdg_path do "XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/share/"$DESKTOP_SESSION":"$XDG_DATA_DIRS"", and worth case if that would be missing it would only means the override doesn't work so not break much, also the Name= translations are stripped by dh_translations in favor of using gettext so we can langpacks
[21:11] <slangasek> Unit193: blacklist doesn't cause the package to be un-seeded; instead it causes the seed as a whole to be considered buggy and invalid if a package is in the seed and matches the blacklist
[21:12] <seb128> slangasek, oh, and please tell me what is wrong with my sed use so I do the correct thing next time :-)
[21:13] <slangasek> seb128: two sed commands operating on the same file, so you're repeating the filename... you can pass multiple commands to sed, either as multiple '-e' arguments or just as commands separated by semicolons
[21:13] <Unit193> slangasek: Dang, I knew it didn't prevent installation, but from the manpage it seemed like it at least prevented from explicitly being selcted. :/
[21:13] <seb128> slangasek, oh, good point, I didn't think much when doing that :-/
[21:13] <slangasek> Unit193: it will cause an image build to fail, which is a bit late in the process
[21:13] <slangasek> seb128: and it wasn't a critical blocker ;)
[21:13] <seb128> slangasek, I'm going to change it with the next upload
[21:13] <Unit193> ...Wow, that's near useless.
[21:13] <Unit193> slangasek: Thanks for the info.
[21:14] <seb128> right, was just curious why you meant by "non-DRY"
[21:14] <slangasek> seb128: DRY == Dont Repeat Yourself :-)
[21:15] <seb128> ooh, gotcha!
[21:15] <roaksoax> win 8
[21:16] <seb128> slangasek, also I'm pondering doing another upload tomorrow (if we get a respin) to include some translations, we could strip the X-Gettext-Domain= for release and put Name[locale]=<translations> entries in the new desktop
[21:16] <seb128> then go back to langpacks in a SRU when we get a new langpack export which contains translations for the string
[21:17] <slangasek> infinity: ^^
[23:30] <doko> cyphermox, console-setup ftbfs
[23:46] <cyphermox> wat


[01:12] <nufan> Anyone active?
[01:12] <carthik> nufan, just ask :)
[01:12] <carthik> I may know the answer, though highly unlikely
[01:12] <nufan> It's to do with helpng out with LaptopTestingHardware on the wiki
[01:13] <carthik> nufan, it might be a good idea to ask the entire question in one go :)
[01:14] <nufan> I have an iBook and would like to help out, butu I'm not sure if I am 'allowed' to edit the wiki page
[01:14] <carthik> nufan, you are
[01:15] <nufan> OK
[01:15] <nufan> That's good :P
[01:15] <nufan> Thank you
[01:19] <mdke> *laughs*
[01:19] <mdke> have cut a few things off the FrontPage
[01:19] <mdke> put them in second level pages
[02:24] <mkde> http://nat.org/demos/monodoc.html
[02:24] <mkde> how cool is that
[04:45] <mpt> carthik! Fancy seeing you here
[06:52] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia
[06:52] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:09] <mpt> hi Burgundavia
[07:10] <Burgundavia> salut mpt
[07:43] <venda> African Greetings
[07:43] <Burgundavia> salut venda
[07:45] <jsgotangco> hello
[07:45] <venda> hello chaps
[07:47] <venda> anyone got time to test that mono help viewer matthew spoke about
[07:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:49] <jsgotangco> we and Burgundavia talked about it before
[07:49] <jsgotangco> its an api doc app
[07:49] <jsgotangco> (not sure if its extensible at the moment(
[07:56] <venda> hmm, if the src is there and its mono, then it must be
[07:56] <venda> that beagle thing is cool
[07:56] <venda> I wonder if it can be embeded
[07:58] <venda> Burgundavia: you've played with it, what do you think?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> another doc viewer
[07:58] <Burgundavia> nothing special, to be honest
[07:59] <venda> is it lighter than a browser and yelp/khelpcenter
[07:59] <Burgundavia> hmm, didn't really check
[07:59] <Burgundavia> might be
[07:59] <Burgundavia> but it also probably does less
[07:59] <venda> yes, tradeoff
[08:00] <venda> but if it is faster, then then our help app can do the main functions
[08:01] <venda> well just an idea
[08:03] <jsgotangco> its quite fast compared to yelp
[08:19] <venda> guys I am thinking to use the MS HTML Format for help, just not to compile it into CHM
[08:19] <venda> see here for information http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/HtmlHelp.html#HHTOCs
[08:19] <venda> Instead of compiling it, we will use a frameset
[08:20] <venda> this will give us all the features of MS help, with the ability to run on the web or under any browser
[08:20] <venda> of ocurse we will not have to encode the docs for windows, we remain at UTF-8
[08:21] <venda> thoughts?
[08:23] <Burgundavia> hmm, I have no idea, so I will not comment either way
[08:23] <jsgotangco> it would be easier for sure though
[08:23] <venda> yes, it is also close to what many of the windows users who try ubuntu are accustomed to
[08:24] <venda> remember what mpt was saying
[08:24] <venda> I think the compromise is to use the technical structure, but remain flexible to customization
[08:25] <venda> but we will not be supporting features like the ms help buttons
[08:25] <venda> those are up to the individual help viewer
[08:26] <venda> if for example somebody develops a help viewer they can always enable the help buttons in their app
[08:26] <mpt> What's an "ms help button"?
[08:27] <venda> I started learning python last week, I hope to be able to write a help viewer for us
[08:27] <venda> mpt: on ms help there are several buttons that can be enabled/disabled on the ms help viewer
[08:27] <venda> mostly for navigation etc
[08:28] <venda> Hide/Show	htmlhelp.button.hideshow
[08:28] <venda> Back	htmlhelp.button.back
[08:28] <venda> Forward	htmlhelp.button.forward
[08:28] <mpt> venda: (1) Will it have a search function?
[08:28] <venda> Stop	htmlhelp.button.stop
[08:28] <venda> Refresh	htmlhelp.button.refresh
[08:28] <mpt> venda: (2) Will it be faster to launch than yelp?
[08:28] <venda> Home	htmlhelp.button.home
[08:28] <venda> Options	htmlhelp.button.options
[08:28] <venda> Print	htmlhelp.button.print
[08:28] <venda> Locate	htmlhelp.button.locate
[08:28] <venda> Next	htmlhelp.button.next
[08:28] <venda> Previous	htmlhelp.button.previous
[08:28] <venda> Zoom	htmlhelp.button.zoom
[08:28] <venda> Yes search will be embeded into our html
[08:29] <mpt> venda: I'm talking about the help viewer
[08:29] <mpt> (hence my comparison to yelp)
[08:29] <mpt> not about the HTML
[08:29] <venda> I want any app capable of rendering html to be available for use
[08:30] <venda> so how fast is dependant on what app is used
[08:30] <venda> hence Iwas interested in the monodoc we spoke about earlier
[08:30] <mpt> venda: I'm responding to this: <venda> I started learning python last week, I hope to be able to write a help viewer for us
[08:30] <venda> Oh
[08:30] <venda> I will design it to be fast
[08:31] <venda> it is a major consideration
[08:31] <jsgotangco> you can extend it to wxpython or something similar
[08:32] <mpt> venda: So writing a new help viewer from scratch will be quicker than implementing search in yelp and making yelp fast?
[08:32] <venda> I will post a spec and interface design, I would like it to be a community project
[08:32] <venda> mpt: no
[08:32] <venda> but yelp etc can still read HTML very well
[08:32] <mpt> So why not do the latter?
[08:33] <venda> the idea of doing a new viewer is to be able to tailor faster
[08:33] <mpt> Tailor what to what faster?
[08:33] <venda> If we want our own this thingy or that
[08:33] <venda> also we can design new concepts
[08:34] <mpt> Thingy? Concepts?
[08:34] <venda> you said, Linux help sucks and so does windows, we can try some new ideas
[08:34] <venda> perhaps you can help us with your toughts there
[08:34] <mpt> Well I have in my head exactly what I'd like a help viewer should look like, and it's not very different from yelp
[08:35] <venda> nobody is happy with the tools available
[08:35] <jsgotangco> mpt, you have a mockup or something?
[08:35] <mpt> should --> to
[08:35] <venda> But help must load lots of baggage
[08:35] <mpt> jsgotangco: No, only in my head at the moment :-)
[08:35] <venda> yes, the diff is not large, but making your own you can do things that yelp team wont want to do
[08:36] <venda> mpt can you sketch the interface
[08:36] <venda> I have the following requirements:
[08:37] <venda> faster
[08:37] <venda> simpler
[08:37] <venda> better
[08:37] <venda> that's it
[08:37] <mpt> And you think the yelp team don't want any of those things? :-)
[08:37] <venda> they carry to much baggage
[08:37] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:37] <venda> many of things we would want, they dont want
[08:38] <venda> and they would have to re-engineer yelp
[08:38] <mpt> Such as?
[08:38] <venda> for example I do not plan reading anything except html help
[08:38] <venda> yelp loads stuff for many formats
[08:39] <mpt> So what about all those apps that currently have their help written in DocBook?
[08:39] <venda> however, I do plan enabling others to include modules for other formats
[08:39] <mpt> And what about man pages?
[08:39] <venda> Docbook transforms to HTML
[08:39] <venda> yelp tries to read it and tranform it to html
[08:39] <mpt> Yes, but who's going to do that for a third-party app?
[08:39] <jsgotangco> similar to what khelp does?
[08:39] <venda> that is up to the community
[08:40] <venda> I will take a kpart type of approach to it
[08:40] <mpt> If Ubuntu uses this VendaHelp and everyone else uses yelp, and some third-party app supplies its help in DocBook, where does the conversion happen?
[08:40] <venda> AT present all GNOME stuff is in Yelp
[08:40] <venda> I am focused on ubuntu-docs
[08:41] <venda> we do not package xml in ubuntu
[08:41] <venda> we package html
[08:41] <mpt> If some *third-party* app (i.e. not part of Gnome) supplies its help in DocBook, where does the conversion happen?
[08:41] <venda> but uses can do apt-get install ubuntu-docs-src
[08:41] <jsgotangco> (i always thought we packaged in xml)
[08:41] <venda> jsgotangco: at present yes
[08:42] <venda> mpt: they will transform to html when they build their apps
[08:42] <venda> xml is not for presentation layer
[08:42] <mpt> So are there no third-party apps that currently provide their help in DocBook format?
[08:43] <mpt> I thought yelp did the conversion on-the-fly
[08:43] <venda> part of the reason help opens so slow is that it is trying to transformations from xml to html
[08:43] <mpt> Could that be solved by making the home page HTML instead?
[08:43] <venda> In kde the help is html
[08:43] <jsgotangco> yelp relies on scrollkeeper to catalog what xml is included
[08:43] <venda> it is only gnome that tries the fly approach
[08:43] <mpt> jsgotangco: And I *wish* I could figure out how :-)
[08:44] <venda> mpt: yes home page for ubuntu-docs is html easy to custom
[08:44] <mpt> I'd like to edit the help, but no-one can tell me how to do it
[08:44] <mpt> except saying "it's not easy"
[08:44] <venda> mpt: exactly
[08:44] <mpt> which I've been told several times already :-P
[08:44] <venda> I want it more open and custom
[08:45] <venda> for example the the formatting an dlayout in yelp is stunnted by yelp
[08:45] <venda> mpt: with this system you can do what you like
[08:45] <mpt> I think stunted formatting is good
[08:45] <venda> nah
[08:45] <venda> you need freedom and control
[08:46] <venda> for example
[08:46] <mpt> No, really, you don't
[08:46] <venda> I would like to have a pick list of related topic and task on the right
[08:46] <venda> in yelp that is not possible
[08:46] <mpt> Even in the Apple Help viewer when it only supported HTML 3.2, instead of using the standard help font, third-party apps often used whatever font the author of the app looked cool
[08:46] <mpt> It was a PITA
[08:46] <venda> in yelp I cant even change the color of headings
[08:47] <mpt> That's a feature
[08:47] <venda> well we do our stuff using the same style
[08:47] <venda> what other do in up to them
[08:47] <venda> our focus is smaller that other tools
[08:47] <mpt> which is exactly the problem
[08:48] <venda> we just want an easy to use faster tool for our stuff
[08:48] <venda> others can use it if they want
[08:49] <venda> btw the help system should also be accessible on a web site
[08:49] <venda> not the help viewer
[08:49] <venda> just the content
[08:50] <venda> I do not envision everyone using this viewer
[08:50] <venda> and do not exclude the ability to use yelp or khelpcenter to view the ubuntu-docs
[08:51] <venda> the content of the help system must be portable across apps
[08:51] <venda> the idea is just to be able to improve what we can do for ubuntu
[08:52] <venda> the same way gome and kde worry only about what they can do for their projects
[08:52] <venda> if others want to use it, then they should be free to do so
[08:53] <mpt> XHTML Basic with no style sheets would be a reasonable language for help
[08:53] <venda> mpt: for you a major immediate plus is that you will be able to rapidly custom the home page and anything else
[08:53] <venda> yes and no
[08:54] <venda> html + css is more flexible
[08:54] <venda> faster too
[08:54] <venda> but technically you are right'
[08:54] <mpt> venda: This is where we disagree. I think that in help, flexibility is not a good thing.
[08:55] <venda> well take yourself as an example
[08:55] <venda> you are frustrated by yelp/scrollkeeper
[08:55] <mpt> All help pages, no whether they come from Gnome or KDE or Adobe, should use the same fonts, the same colors, the same margins, the same padding.
[08:55] <venda> in an ideal world
[08:55] <mpt> Authors shouldn't be able to muck around with the formatting.
[08:55] <venda> yes
[08:56] <venda> mpt: start small
[08:56] <mpt> Because if they can, they will.
[08:56] <venda> in docbook they see no formatting
[08:56] <venda> the xsl transformation takes care of that
[08:56] <mpt> good
[08:56] <venda> but I want to stay topical for now
[08:56] <venda> I dont want to change the world
[08:57] <venda> Shaum tried that and he had huge problems
[08:57] <mpt> Who's Shaum?
[08:57] <venda> Sorry Shaun M from GNOME
[08:57] <Burgundavia> shaun
[08:58] <venda> If all ubuntu-docs look the same and we have control over the look and feel, I am a happy camper
[08:58] <jsgotangco> how about the other docs?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> (from scrollkeeper)
[08:58] <venda> if others want to adopt it, they're welcome
[08:58] <venda> jsgotangco: use yelp
[08:58] <mpt> er
[08:59] <mpt> venda: So Ubuntu should have *two* help viewers?
[08:59] <venda> we will still register with srollkeeper for compatability reasons
[08:59] <venda> gnome has one and so do we
[08:59] <venda> at first
[08:59] <mpt> "gnome"? What's this "gnome"?</aunttillie>
[09:00] <venda> as and when people create plugins other things can be done
[09:00] <venda> other formats suppoerted
[09:00] <venda> like man
[09:00] <jsgotangco> (i dont like the concept of 2 help viewers)
[09:00] <venda> but I dont want to go there for now, just leave it open to possability
[09:00] <mpt> Well
[09:00] <jsgotangco> (you support 2 apps as well)
[09:01] <venda> jsgotangco: your web browser is ff yes
[09:01] <mpt> venda: I'm not the world's expert on how jdub and mdz and co. think, but I find it difficult to imagine them putting multiple help viewers into Ubuntu when they have the choice not to.
[09:01] <venda> please click help
[09:02] <venda> mpt there must be about six of them installed today
[09:02] <venda> just look at the firefox help, opera help, OOo help
[09:02] <mpt> venda: Yes, but that's not through choice, that's through upstreams being silly.
[09:02] <venda> etc
[09:02] <venda> no upstreams not silly
[09:02] <venda> they just want control not given by yelp
[09:02] <mpt> And they don't have the choice
[09:03] <venda> there is a tradeoff alwasy
[09:03] <mpt> because they don't have the time to spend on putting the Firefox and OOo help into yelp.
[09:03] <venda> not true
[09:03] <venda> there help is xml
[09:04] <venda> and they just need to install it
[09:04] <venda> yelp will do the rest
[09:04] <venda> Hmm, maybe we can just us ethe ff helpviewer
[09:04] <mpt> it's crack
[09:04] <venda> it is more or less what I had inmind
[09:04] <mpt> Opera isn't in main
[09:05] <venda> mpt: crack = good :-)
[09:05] <mpt> It's a classic case of programmers overestimating how much people care about a particular window
[09:05] <venda> so is it good or bad
[09:05] <mpt> It's far too large, and too complex, and oh yes, let's have a Customize Toolbar dialog! For a help viewer!
[09:06] <mpt> Because I want to spend time deciding which buttons should appear in a HELP WINDOW
[09:06] <venda> we can dumb it down
[09:06] <venda> mpt is there any winning with you?
[09:07] <mpt> Sure, add search to yelp and I'll be your fan for life ;-)
[09:07] <venda> but you say yelp is too slow
[09:07] <venda> so what do you want
[09:07] <mpt> Yes, but that's slightly less of a problem than it not having search
[09:07] <venda> so why put so much focus on the slow issue earlier
[09:07] <mpt> Or, MUCH easier, give me step-by-step instructions on how to change yelp's front page
[09:08] <venda> can't
[09:09] <mpt> I wasn't focusing on the slow issue in particular, I just had to ask it a few times because you thought I was talking about something else
[09:09] <venda> take your pic custom or no custom, fast or slow
[09:09] <venda> everything has some trade-off
[09:09] <mpt> sure
[09:10] <venda> ok must go now. take care
[09:15] <jsgotangco> gyahh
[09:16] <mpt> That was a boil-the-ocean strategy
[09:55] <mdke> morning
[09:57] <mdke> whats all this crying?
[09:57] <mpt> mdke: Oh, um, Sean wants to write a help viewer from scratch, to be used *alongside* yelp
[09:58] <mdke> well get to it
[09:58] <mdke> :p
[09:59] <mdke> mpt, what do you favour?
[09:59] <mdke> are there any minimal browsers that might work?
[09:59] <mpt> Any help viewer would have to display help in the formats that it is currently supplied in
[10:00] <mdke> mpt, you mean the gnome docs?
[10:00] <mpt> which includes DocBook and man pages, neither of which Sean's would read
[10:00] <mdke> right
[10:00] <mpt> I'm talking about all the help shipped with Ubuntu
[10:00] <mdke> i guess the problem is finding a solution for both ubuntu and kubuntu
[10:00] <mdke> given that kubuntu doesn't use yelp
[10:01] <mpt> What I favour is decreasing the number of help viewers
[10:01] <mpt> Preferably to the one help viewer that sucks the least
[10:01] <jsgotangco> same here
[10:01] <mdke> yes of course thats a good idea
[10:01] <mdke> and what sucks the least?
[10:01] <jsgotangco> kubuntu uses khtml alredy
[10:01] <mdke> for man pages too?
[10:02] <mpt> then getting Gimp to use it, then getting Firefox to use it, then getting OpenOffice to use it
[10:02] <jsgotangco> yep
[10:02] <mpt> (I'm assuminug that's in ascending order of difficulty)
[10:02] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper even
[10:02] <jsgotangco> but its a mess
[10:02] <mdke> i love the idea of OOo
[10:02] <mdke> a 30 second startup for getting help ;)
[10:03] <jsgotangco> monodoc is faster
[10:03] <mdke> would it work for all docs, in kubuntu and ubuntu?
[10:03] <mpt> I have no idea
[10:03] <jsgotangco> i dont think it was designed as a general help viewer
[10:03] <jsgotangco> just for mono at the moment
[10:03] <mdke> i guess it will be difficult to move away from yelp given that gnome uses it
[10:04] <jsgotangco> yelp isnt so bad it just needs some love
[10:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:04] <mdke> but the faqguide as sean has converted it is already unusable in yelp
[10:04] <mdke> and that will probably be the most used doc for breezy if it goes in
[10:05] <mpt> woohoo
[10:05] <mdke> quite
[10:05] <mpt> Who came up with the name "faq guide" anyway?
[10:05] <mdke> mpt, no idea
[10:05] <jsgotangco> no idea
[10:05] <mpt> You know
[10:05] <jsgotangco> must be the first authors
[10:05] <jsgotangco> (sean, enrico, et al)
[10:05] <mpt> I should bind my hands today so I can't type
[10:05] <mdke> we can change the name fairly easily, thats not the big deal
[10:05] <mpt> coz I'm cranky
[10:06] <mdke> mpt, time of the month huh
[10:06] <mpt> And when I'm cranky, BAD CRAP happens
[10:06] <mpt> moo
[10:06] <mdke> jsgotangco, you are so addicted to that stuff
[10:06] <jsgotangco> yeah tea rules
[10:06] <mdke> just inject the caffeine directly
[10:06] <mdke> (does green tea have caffeine?)
[10:07] <jsgotangco> LOADS
[10:07] <jsgotangco> higher than coffee
[10:07] <mdke> in italian they call it teaine ;)
[10:07] <mdke> given that coffee is "caffe"
[10:07] <mdke> they figured that caffeine comes from the word coffee
[10:07] <jsgotangco> we even have tofu drinks here
[10:07] <mdke> ugh
[10:08] <jsgotangco> its delicious
[10:08] <jsgotangco> tea + tofu = awesome
[10:08] <mdke> ugh
[10:09] <jsgotangco> i dont blame you
[10:09] <mdke> the good thing about using html for the docs would be that they could be published online/offline in the same way
[10:09] <mdke> if you think about it, having ubuntu docs and then gnome/kde docs in a different help viewer isn't the end of the world
[10:09] <mdke> mpt, i remember that you were saying that the books should be published as pdf
[10:09] <mpt> yup
[10:10] <jsgotangco> ugghh no one reads in pdf
[10:10] <mdke> i do
[10:10] <mpt> for print use
[10:10] <mdke> i use pdf for whatever I write
[10:10] <jsgotangco> for print no problem
[10:10] <mpt> because the books aren't suitable for on-screen reading
[10:10] <mdke> mpt, so all the Ubuntu docs are books atm
[10:10] <mpt> no matter *what* medium they're in
[10:10] <mpt> Yes
[10:10] <jsgotangco> id consider them as books too
[10:10] <mpt> Well observed :-)
[10:10] <jsgotangco> (the way they are formatted)
[10:10] <mpt> and the way they're written
[10:11] <mdke> sure
[10:11] <mdke> except maybe the faqguide
[10:11] <mdke> which will shortly be renamed
[10:11] <mdke> ;)
[10:11] <mpt> Currently we have plenty of reference material, but none of what I'd categorize as onscreen help.
[10:12] <mdke> for breezy we should also have some howtos from the wiki
[10:16] <jsgotangco> well i gotta go
[10:16] <jsgotangco> i have a diner to attend
[10:16] <jsgotangco> laterz
[10:16] <mdke> those vnc2swf videos are pretty cool
[10:16] <mdke> have fun jsgotangco
[10:17] <jsgotangco> i just installed 2 ubuntu servrs today
[10:17] <jsgotangco> man ubuntu as a server is awesome
[10:17] <mdke> thats cool
[10:17] <mdke> i will try breezy this weekend
[10:17] <jsgotangco> id rather not yet when x is borked
[10:17] <mdke> jsgotangco, did you see LaptopTestingTeam btw?
[10:17] <jsgotangco> not yet
[10:17] <mdke> i think its fixed now
[10:17] <jsgotangco> what's that about
[10:18] <mdke> jsgotangco, check it out
[10:18] <jsgotangco> wiki?
[10:18] <mdke> yes
[10:18] <mdke> free laptops for testing breezy
[10:18] <jsgotangco> yeah i know that
[10:18] <jsgotangco> we discussed that in UDU
[10:18] <mdke> well put your name down
[10:19] <jsgotangco> sabdfl was willing to invest
[10:19] <mdke> that guy is a genius
[10:19] <mdke> its a brilliant idea
[10:19] <mdke> ubuntu is gonna rock laptops
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:19] <jsgotangco> that list is already long
[10:19] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:19] <mdke> lots of people on the list haven't done any work
[10:19] <mdke> you have
[10:19] <jsgotangco> i know
[10:20] <jsgotangco> if you check the udu laptop wiki me and ogra are listed
[10:20] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:20] <mdke> well there ya go
[10:20] <mdke> get your name down
[10:20] <jsgotangco> ill put mine beside you hehe (cheater)
[10:20] <mdke> k
[10:21] <mdke> a guy in #ubuntu-it said breezy was real fast
[10:21] <mdke> thats why i'm gonna try it
[10:21] <mdke> that, and the fact that I have time on my hands
[10:21] <mdke> my course finishes friday
[10:21] <jsgotangco> hmm wonder why dholbach didnt list himself
[10:21] <jsgotangco> or even ajmitch
[10:22] <mdke> guess they have flair laptops already
[10:22] <jsgotangco> nahhh you should see ajmitch's laptop
[10:22] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:22] <mdke> hmm
[10:22] <jsgotangco> or worse, even mako's
[10:22] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:22] <mdke> no way?
[10:22] <mdke> he has a p1 166 mmx?
[10:22] <jsgotangco> well a P2
[10:22] <mdke> my gf has one of those
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i still have a p3 laptop
[10:23] <jsgotangco> well i gotta go my wife is gonna kill me if im late
[10:23] <mdke> ok have fun
[10:23] <jsgotangco> listed myself already
[10:23] <mdke> cool
[10:24] <mdke> dholbach is third on the list btw
[10:24] <jsgotangco> mjg59 is doing swell work on laptops
[10:24] <jsgotangco> later
[10:24] <mdke> bye
[01:17] <Kinnison> Hola
[08:26] <venda> Burgundavia: bounties for docs that's a first :-)
[08:29] <venda> Burgundavia: I wonder if they will accept my Lenya solution?
[08:31] <Burgundavia> they might
[08:34] <venda> Hmmm, I wonder ...
[08:43] <abelli> Kinnison: ding dong dang
[09:03] <Kinnison> abelli: hi
[09:17] <mkde> evening
[09:17] <venda> elo
[09:18] <Burgundavia> venda, someone has posting something to the gnome list as well
[09:18] <venda> yes, dorvak or something like that
[09:19] <mkde> venda, any reply on the ubuntuguide?
[09:20] <abelli> venda, domo arigato.
[09:22] <_venda> ouch that hurt
[09:22] <abelli> _venda: re-"domo arigato".
[09:23] <_venda> hello abelli
[09:23] <mkde> venda, any reply on the ubuntuguide?
[09:24] <venda> mdke: no
[09:26] <venda> gotta love wget
[09:26] <venda> download a whole web site in minutes
[09:27] <carthik> venda, and mp3s, in some cases :)
[09:27] <carthik> I love netjuke users, who allow downloads, but I am evil.
[09:31] <venda> 590 files in 2.07 secs
[09:56] <venda> good night ppl
[10:04] <abelli> ciao a tutti
[10:04] <abelli> buona notte
[11:48] <mdke> Kinnison, is your dad called norman?
[11:48] <Kinnison> Hep
[11:48] <Kinnison> Y
[11:48] <mdke> awesome
[11:48] <mdke> he posted to the ubuntu-uk list this evening
[11:48] <mdke> i need to convert my parents
[11:51] <Kinnison> Cool


[00:04] <dengaku_sco> hello
[00:05] <dengaku_sco> i got a question, but it's more a bout Wine
[00:05] <dengaku_sco> would it be kosher to ask in here?
[00:16] <dengaku_sco> would it be kosher to ask about Wine in here?
[14:58] <Silver_Fox_> Hello.
[14:58] <philinux> o/
[15:00] <Silver_Fox_> Hello philinux. How are you friend ?
[15:16] <philinux> Silver_Fox_: just messing about today
[15:50] <marys> How do I move mt close/min/max buttons to the right side of the windows?
[15:50] <Silver_Fox_> marys,  https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/config-desktop/C/window-button-order.html
[15:51] <marys> thanks
[15:54] <shahan> .
[16:12] <Rahi> I cannt configure empthy for IRC
[16:13] <Rahi> the room #ubuntu-beginners        how can I make it work in empthy?
[16:14] <IAmNotThatGuy> Nice. leave after asking questions :P
[16:17] <CassandraKos> I have done my best to solve my filesystem issues on my own, after I was told to stop whinging and start mining last week, but I cannot get fstab to automount my drives at all and even after following all the advice I have received, my filesystem still crashes several times a day, requiring a computer restart (cold boot) to remedy the error. I believe the problems may occur when a programme called run-parts operates, appa
[16:17] <CassandraKos> I will not leve now!
[16:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: What version of Ubuntu? 10.04 ?
[16:18] <CassandraKos> I did leave after I was told off, but I have not given up on helping or being helped
[16:18] <CassandraKos> 8.04
[16:18] <duanedesign> run-parts runs every script in a given directory
[16:18] <CassandraKos> tried the upgrade, which seemed to start all the troubles I am having
[16:19] <CassandraKos> right - so that would be the cron.hourly dir
[16:19] <CassandraKos> but it is empty
[16:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> is this some kinda error? "run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs 2.6.36-rc1-rday /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.36-rc1-rday"
[16:21] <shahan> I want to use IRC from my Empathy 2.30.2
[16:21] <duanedesign> shahan: having trouble configuring it?
[16:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> shahan: Empathy will not be listing the users name when you are in a channel
[16:22] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: that sounds like just a report of something that happened, but probably not an error, I think
[16:22] <shahan> IAmNotThatGuy: listing? what kind of listing?
[16:22] <shahan> duanedesign: ya
[16:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: so you are having issue related with Corn right? and is it after an update/upgrade?
[16:23] <duanedesign> shahan: which part is giving you trouble?
[16:24] <shahan> duanedesign: my terget is to reach in this room where I am now, from the Empathy 2.30.2
[16:24] <shahan> duanedesign: Edit>Accounts
[16:24] <shahan> duanedesign: what Network will I select?
[16:25] <duanedesign> shahan: freenode
[16:25] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: the upgrade attempt trashed my install so I reinstalled 8.04 but it is behaving differently from its first install (I suspect because some packages updated and function slightly differently) so I now have issues I never had before and I think cron is not helping
[16:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> shahan: you have to click add button to add an account and you can see IRC
[16:26] <shahan> duanedesign: selected.... then I have given the Nickname, Password, Realname
[16:26] <shahan> IAmNotThatGuy: I know
[16:27] <duanedesign> and click the enabled box
[16:27] <shahan> duanedesign: ya... done everything
[16:27] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: I had cut cron off before, but do not recall how I did it as it was under instruction from someone here
[16:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: Is there any reason in staying at 8.04?
[16:28] <shahan> let me give the screenshot
[16:28] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: since the upgrade to 10.04 trashed my system, I thought I would stick to the devil I know
[16:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> you cannot upgrade to 10.04 directly from 8.04
[16:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> I think that is what the upgrade issue is
[16:29] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: it was the Update Manager's idea - I just did what it told me to
[16:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: you can download a fresh 10.04 LTS from ubuntu.com
[16:29] <shahan> check the screenshot http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2860/ircp.png
[16:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: It is because, many files will be upgraded from one version to the next version.
[16:30] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: ah, yes, but I cannot burn it as I have lost that ability along with the reliability of my fs
[16:31] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: I have a dl of 10.04, but no way to create a live cd
[16:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: Can you find any Local Community around you?
[16:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: you can get a Disk from them or you can request canonical if you have no other choice
[16:31] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: no idea - I am housebound and don't get out
[16:32] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: but will 10.04 be any better? Lot of trouble to go to for no known benefit
[16:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: Lucid is awesome and what is your machine configuration?
[16:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: you have to register at launchpad.net and then you have to subscribe for ubuntu 10.04 at https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
[16:33] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: it is an old machine - two 500MHz processors and an Asustek m/b with just 384Mb RAM - the newer distros have trouble with my computer anyway
[16:34] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy:tried to jin launchpad but cannot get an account
[16:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: you got any issues? what they said?
[16:36] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: It is good to stay with 8.04 and had you tried re-installing from any other CD apart from what you used recently?
[16:36] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: can't recall why launchpad is off the menu, I think I set up an account once but could not confirm it and now I can't set up another as my email address is already used
[16:37] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: I only have the one 8.04 cd - server edition
[16:37] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy:I suspect that I should be using an even older OS to match my hw
[16:38] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy:I did try with a Mepis cd, but could not mount my drives in it
[16:39] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: Okay. try creating a new email and register again. and why server edition?
[16:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> brb. mom calls
[16:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> and I think your whole Hard drive is infected(If you can't boot any of your volumes)
[16:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> brb
[16:41] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: server edition because that is the only live ubuntu cd I had available and I will get a new email account when I switch ISPs, so I will try launchpad again then
[16:46] <CassandraKos> I can boot and mount all my volumes, but after some random period of time one or more drives dismounts itself somehow (the syslog shows a cron.hourly entry just before) and then it will not remount until after a reboot, but unless I do a cold start. The drive volume ids change, also apparently randomly (I hate computers that do random things, they should not be able to). First off, my boot drive will be sda1, then it will
[16:49] <CassandraKos> I suspect that is I could get my fstab entries right, all else would fall into place, but I cannot work out how to assign both an UUID and a mountpoint such as /dev/sda1 or /dev/SciFiSeries
[17:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> CassandraKos: Better register and get another CD or buy a new machine if you can ;)
[17:24] <CassandraKos> IAmNotThatGuy: I doubt the cd is the issue, pet. I suspect the 713 devices set up and some of the other decisions made by the assemblers of the distro are unsuitable for my hardware, so I shall try another distro and stop hassling you folk. It's been fun. I have learned some stuff from people here and I am grateful for the efforts.
[17:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> Good luck CassandraKos (:
[17:26] <CassandraKos> Thanks - gonna try Foresight Linux next, free CD from linux Format magazine, hope it works! Have a good day.
[19:44] <Silver_Fox_> Hello.
[19:45] <IAmNotThatGuy> Hello Silver_Fox_. and What I have to see?? (in fb ) (:
[19:47] <Silver_Fox_> Moi
[19:48] <Silver_Fox_> I logged in for the first time in... 2 months ?
[19:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> Silver_Fox_: idk french :P
[19:48] <Silver_Fox_> I posted in facebook
[19:49] <IAmNotThatGuy> you should have elaborated it (:
[22:43] <nukunu> How do I add my VMWare SVGA adapter to the hardware drivers list. My 3D does no activate when I enable it, I believe it has to deal with this SVGA adapter.. Thank you.


[00:07] <los> thetrav: I hear you, for my own sanity, I'm setting something up just like that right now.  VirtualBox, on top of (they give me) Windows 7.
[00:07] <los> roaksoax: thanks for the clues!
[00:08] <los> I am using the archive latest version as per roaksoax's suggestions.  I want to replicate the 2C+1R setup at home tonite for my own amusement.  I've gotten a single 1C+1R working, doing JuJu on it, fine.  Want to see the 2C.
[00:12] <los> roaksoax: thetrav: there looks to be a leak of a Django user even if I were to remove the 1.8.3 maas entirely.    Just rebuilt some more VM's (by hand for now).  I'm messing around.  Done for now.  Thanks for assistance!
[05:56] <nitin_> Please help me with my query at :http://askubuntu.com/questions/698642/how-to-generate-a-custom-image-of-centos-for-maas
[06:19] <mup> Bug #1516891 opened: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[06:31] <mup> Bug #1516891 changed: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[06:34] <mup> Bug #1516891 opened: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[07:59] <mup> Bug #1516891 changed: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[08:02] <mup> Bug #1516891 opened: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[08:05] <mup> Bug #1516891 changed: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[08:08] <mup_> Bug #1516891 opened: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[08:11] <mup> Bug #1516891 changed: juju 1.25 misconfigures juju-br0 when using MAAS 1.9 bonded interface <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516891>
[14:27] <vlaza> hello everyone; short question: will there be any HA feature in 1.9.0 version ? I'm interested in relation to region-controller
[14:47] <roaksoax> vlaza: that should come out in 2.0 actually
[14:49] <vlaza> roaksoax: thank you for the info
[15:39] <dimitern> mpontillo, FYI - https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1517097
[15:51] <mup> Bug #1517097 opened: MAAS acquire interfaces argument should AND key-value pairs for the same label <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517097>
[16:54] <mup> Bug #1517129 opened: vg has insufficient free disk space <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517129>
[19:18] <mup> Bug #1517180 opened: No support for adding custom certificate chains <cloud-installer> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517180>
[19:30] <mup> Bug #1517180 changed: No support for adding custom certificate chains <cloud-installer> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517180>
[19:33] <mup> Bug #1517180 opened: No support for adding custom certificate chains <cloud-installer> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517180>
[21:37] <mup> Bug #1517221 opened: subnet does no longer show DNS servers <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517221>
[21:40] <mup> Bug #1517221 changed: subnet does no longer show DNS servers <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517221>
[21:46] <mup> Bug #1517221 opened: subnet does no longer show DNS servers <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517221>
[22:07] <mup> Bug #1517227 opened: deploy fails with non-default partitioning <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517227>
[22:13] <mup> Bug #1517227 changed: deploy fails with non-default partitioning <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517227>
[22:22] <mup> Bug #1517227 opened: deploy fails with non-default partitioning <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517227>


[00:52] <doomlord> does ubuntu-arm on a N7 have some sort of virtual mouse to make using fiddly desktop UI easier
[01:53] <ali1234> nope
[01:53] <ali1234> wait
[01:53] <ali1234> maybe
[01:53] <ali1234> you mean the desktop image?
[02:13] <doomlord> yes
[02:14] <doomlord> (the port of desktop-ubuntu arm to n7)
[02:14] <ali1234> well i think you can plug in a usb mouse on that for one thing...
[02:15] <doomlord> i think what would probably be ideal is if a finger-touch generally registered as placing the cursor & clicking... but also having a virtual mouse you can drag around for pinpoint accurate clicks on fidly desktop elements.
[02:16] <doomlord> (virtual mouse with virtual mouse buttons .. like a sort of onscrreen puck,to deliver accurate clicks )
[02:16] <doomlord> yeah of course a USB mouse would be nice
[07:31] <Goranek> hi guys
[07:32] <Goranek> will ubuntu for tablets be something like maemo for nokia n900?
[07:32] <Goranek> i'm thinking on possibility to install linux apps
[20:42] <pjdamws> So has anyone flashed Ubuntu on their tablet? If so what are your impressions?
[22:56] <jkobyp> Looking for some opinions - should I expect to get some good programming done on an Ubuntu tablet? Nothing too heavy duty, just undergraduate level computer science.
[23:06] <GuidoPallemans> jkobyp: what do you mean? just the experience? how good it is for learning to program?
[23:09] <jkobyp> for programming itself. I've seen some IDE's for Android that looked pretty pathetic. I guess I'm wondering if it would be possible to run something like Eclipse or other existing IDE's, and whether it will have the nuts and bolts necessary to compile java programs. Also, thanks for the response.
[23:10] <ali1234> no
[23:10] <ali1234> 1. you will have graduated before a decent ubuntu tablet is released
[23:11] <ali1234> 2. tablets are poor for development. laptop is better. a desktop is better still.
[23:14] <jkobyp> Well, that's disheartening. Thought I would have had a good excuse for a new toy. Thanks for the help!
[23:16] <ali1234> also, nothing in undergraduate CS actually requires the use of an IDE
[23:17] <ali1234> unless you have a course on "using IDEs" which would be odd for CS
[23:19] <jkobyp> Well, that's surprising to me, but it would also explain why I haven't been accepted to college yet.
[23:31] <amigamia> hi all is the tablet version open or closed? is it possible for me to download the os?


[09:50] <highvoltage> stgraber: When you have a chance, can you copy the 14.04.2 images to your mirror as well?
[16:08] <stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I'll do that later today
[18:33] <stgraber> highvoltage: rsync in progress but the cdimage rsync server is freakishly slow...


[11:30] <coz_> good day
[18:07] <r2wj> Chris Wilson in here?
[18:08] <r2wj> Would anybody like to comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/683856 ?
[18:29] <evilvish> r2wj: thats a dup
[18:29]  * evilvish looks for main bug..
[18:50] <r2wj> evilvish - you're a wizard
[18:50] <evilvish> ;)
[21:09] <dbarth> API: ping? i've assigned you to https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/701667
[21:10] <dbarth> API: which should in fact become "fix committed" as soon as your branch lands on trunk
[21:11] <API> dbarth, checking ...
[21:11] <API> dbarth, ok thanks
[22:08] <sladen> dbarth_ and co: could you give me a quick rundown of how global-menu-related bugs should be distributed against libdbusmenu, indicator-appmenu, appmenu-gtk, ayatana-ubuntu and/or libgtk itself ?
[22:09] <sladen> case in point being bug #690009
[22:12] <sladen> seb128: yes, I feared this to be the case.  Hence asking for the guidance ^^
[22:13] <seb128> ok
[22:14] <seb128> there is a dumper utily you can use to determine if the issue is in the structure sent over dbus or the rendering
[22:42] <ronoc> kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/indicator-sound/third/0.5.5
[22:42] <kenvandine> ronoc, thx


[17:07] <Simes> I had Pidgin installed.  On upgrading from 22.04 to 22.04.1 it uninstalled Pidgin.  Is there different preferred instant messenger software recommended for Xubuntu now?
[17:08] <Simes> The documentation suggests it should be the default app, so I am surprised it got uninstalled by the update.
[17:08] <Simes> https://xubuntu.github.io/xubuntu-docs/user/C/default-apps.html#internet
[17:31] <tomreyn> Simes: it's not clear why it got uninstalled. maybe you can provide more insight on that from the apt logs at /var/log/apt - start with history.log - records are sorted by date.
[17:32] <tomreyn> 22.04.0 to .1 is not a relase upgrade, but happens as part of receiving normal system updates.
[17:35] <krytarik> Simes: While I guess you meant upgrade from *20.04*, yes Pidgin got removed from the default apps sometime in between as per LP #1936417 - but if you actually still got use cases for it as per instant messaging (rather than just IRC, which we now got HexChat for), you could of course just install it back.
[17:39] <Simes> Ah.  @tomreyn & @kyrtarik - thank you.  I suspect you are right and I upgraded from 20.04, not 22.04.  I /thought/ I was on 22.04; I see I cannot have been.  (I would have put money on it - and lost it!)
[17:41] <Simes> @krytarik - I cannot even copy your name right when it's on the screen.  I probably need more sleep.  I'll crawl back under my stone now.  :-)   Thank you all.
[17:42] <krytarik> Well, I've seen it anyway.. :)
[18:56] <xu-irc19w> Wifi and Bluetooth icons disappeared after 22.04LTS upgrade...do you have a solution?
[19:19] <novanipples> Hello, world?
[19:22] <xubuntu3700> Hello, world!
[19:22] <xubuntu3700> Kbye