[01:14] <Siko> hey
[01:15] <oerheks> :-)
[01:52] <BinarySavior> sarnold, i restored defaults then rebooted and fixed, but still experiencing screen tearing
[01:52] <BinarySavior> but the blurriness was fixed at least
[01:55] <hao> I keeps run into this problem: every several hour, I found myself unable to change input engine with hotkey, need to do a `ibus restart`.
[01:57] <hao> I also asked in #ibus, but it might not be a problem of ibus. any idea why? wanted to see some log of ibus, but cannot find where the log goes (its manpage doesn't mention)
[02:29] <hao> got some logs extracted from journalctl: https://bpa.st/FIVQ
[02:31] <oerheks> hao, on what browser?
[02:31] <oerheks> seen that on chromium only
[02:31] <hao> browser? sorry I'm asking about ibus
[02:32] <oerheks> yes, where did you notice this behaviour, global?
[02:33] <hao> yes, every several hours, when I switching input engine, will notice that I'm unable to, no matter inside which app
[02:34] <hao> seems it got killed because eating too much CPU?
[02:36] <oerheks> OOM ?
[02:36] <oerheks> grep OOM
[02:38] <hao> I added another case around 5 o'clock: https://bpa.st/ZXOQ, seems before it got killed, there are always several window manager warnings and complains about my keychron keyboard too slow.
[02:38] <hao> wait
[02:39] <oerheks> did you resume after suspend some time??
[02:42] <hao> oerheks, lines around 'OOM': https://bpa.st/RISA
[02:42] <hao> oerheks, what do you mean by 'resume after suspend'?
[02:43] <oerheks> did your system goto sleep?
[02:43] <hao> also, I got my swap off, don't know whether this matters
[02:43] <oerheks> i guess not.
[02:44] <hao> no, as far I know, it's all normal, just that I cannot switch IME suddenly
[02:44] <oerheks> weird, file a bugreport
[02:44] <oerheks> with no swap, and enough memory * 16gb..
[02:45] <oerheks> do you have standard ubuntu , or ubuntu+hwe?
[02:46] <hao> there are 8GB RAM... but to be honest, it seems my system won't eat up all those, typically only consume 4GB+
[02:46] <hao> standard ubuntu
[02:46] <oerheks> chromebook, i presumw
[02:46] <hao> MBP12,1
[02:47] <hao> maybe it's my hardware is too fragile, it got smashed on floor twice...
[02:47] <oerheks> sudo systemctl disable<EMAIL_ADDRESS>&& sudo systemctl mask<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:47] <oerheks> maybe it helps
[02:50]  * hao need to search a little on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:52] <oerheks> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2479828
[03:01] <hao> oerheks, done that. will see if the problem persist. thanks
[03:04] <circle> Hello is there documentation for getting external monitors to work on Ubuntu 22.04.2 a (dell) laptop with intel and Nvidia graphics?
[03:06] <oerheks> circle, is there a hardware key, fn + something to get external working"?
[03:09] <circle> F8 has the symbol on it. Pressing F8 appears to do nothing. fn+F8 logs me out  8-(
[03:11] <oerheks> internal, external, both
[03:14] <circle> do I need to install or configure something for dell laptop keys to be properly recognized?
[03:14] <circle> Currently all that key does is log me out
[03:15] <oerheks> weird, never seen that before
[03:15] <oerheks> what nvidia driver and what hw?
[03:15] <circle> The other keyboard functions (volume, mic, keyboard /screen brightness all work.
[03:18] <circle> Nvidia settings app is not very populated. Only two lines in the left panel: Application Profiles; Nvidia settings configuration.
[03:19] <circle> how do I tell the Nvidia driver version?
[03:20] <oerheks> did you set any overclocking in the bios
[03:20] <oerheks> ?
[03:20] <circle> no
[03:20] <oerheks> oke
[03:21] <circle> Hardware is Dell Precision 7760
[03:23] <circle> lash -C display says  NVIDIA GA104GLM [RTX A5000 Mobile] and Intel (no specific info given)
[03:24] <circle> lspci says Intel Corp. Device 9a70 (rev 01)
[03:26] <oerheks> dell has some repos http://dell.archive.canonical.com/updates/dists/
[03:26] <oerheks> not sure how to add those
[03:27] <circle> There are a lot of jammy versions
[03:28] <oerheks> old howto, not sure the key is valid https://nrogap.medium.com/dell-repository-for-install-additional-drivers-on-ubuntu-4cf061640180
[03:30] <circle> Is it strange that the documentation is not on dell's website but on medium?
[03:31] <rbox> thats not 'the documnetation"... thats some rnaodm guy writing some words o na website
[03:37] <circle> I find executables prime-supported prime-offload ... but no man pages nor --help option.  are there documentations for them?
[03:39] <player> :D
[05:34] <chrislevite> please i need help. When i start up my ubuntu sometimes it keeps booting forever,sometimes web browser keeps refreshing, sometimes ~ is typed on the terminal continuously
[07:26] <philogone> Hi all it's my first use of irc
[07:27] <philogone> quit
[07:28] <philogone> exit
[07:38] <WhoAmi__> hello
[07:38] <matsaman> 'lo
[07:38] <WhoAmi__> hi
[07:39] <WhoAmi__> who to see list users on this channel?
[07:39] <matsaman> WhoAmi__: /names
[07:41] <WhoAmi__> a
[07:41] <WhoAmi__> a
[07:41] <WhoAmi__> a
[07:41] <WhoAmi__> a
[07:41] <WhoAmi__> a
[08:08] <pydev1> hello everybody
[08:09] <pydev1> i have created a system user without an home, but now i need to configure a ssh key to login into gitlab and download the repository, so the things are: 1) create an home for that user and add .ssh/config with the "Host" or simply use the /etc/ssh/ssh_config file and put everything there
[08:09] <pydev1> are there any other approach ?
[08:09] <pydev1> and i also wonder if is there any sense of having a system account WITH home ...BUT with a shell /sbin/nologin
[08:10] <pydev1> as i said i do that just to log into external servers
[08:13] <NickH> There are many acccounts just like that. First one that comes to mind is sshd. Have a look in /etc/passwd.
[08:14] <NickH> Such accounts often have their home under /var/lib
[08:17] <pydev1> NickH, wait
[08:18] <pydev1> so you think is better to add an HOME for that system user?
[08:18] <pydev1> and then creates .ssh/config?
[08:18] <pydev1> why can i not use ssh_config directly ?
[08:18] <pydev1>  /etc/ssh/ssh_config i mean
[08:22] <NickH> Is this for hosting a gitlab instance?
[08:26] <NickH> If so, I suggest you follow the gitlab documention.
[08:43] <pydev1> NickH, pardon i am back
[08:43] <pydev1> no no i am not hosting gitlab
[08:43] <pydev1> i am saying that i have many users in my server
[08:43] <pydev1> from each server i need to "git pull"  data from gitlab.com
[08:44] <pydev1> i can also do git clone
[08:44] <pydev1> they permit ssh key as auth method
[08:44] <pydev1> so basically i would like to "install" a key for each user
[08:44] <pydev1> to let that user pull data from gitlab.com
[08:44] <pydev1> so i am asking
[08:45] <pydev1> can a system account has an home but with nologin shell?
[08:45] <pydev1> is there any sense?
[08:45] <pydev1> i do not need to log-in
[09:12] <throwthecheese> Any idea why I can't activate Maliit?
[09:44] <NickH> Each user should create their own key.
[09:47] <zetheroo1> Is it possible to access an NFS share via Files?
[09:52] <Guest63> Hi what's the difference between Nvidia-utils-NNN and Nvidia-utils-NNN-server?
[09:53] <ravage> zetheroo1: nfs://
[09:53] <Guest63> apt info : binaries for the NVIDIA [server] driver.  What's the difference? I don't know what the NV server is
[09:54] <ravage> Guest63: it is only a guess. but the server packages maybe dont include any GUI applications?
[09:58] <Guest63> does the NNN need to match the installed driver?
[09:58] <Guest63> Does anyone else get strange output from 'apt info Nvidia-driver-525'.  ?
[10:08] <Guest92> I am using Ubuntu 23.04 .  Whenever pc screens go dark and i get logged out, my sounds transfer from headphones to speakers. And when I log back in they go back to headphones. Any idea why?
[10:08] <Guest63> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia. tells how to launch the application to find proprietary drivers, however "Software & Updates -> Additional Drivers" does not seem to exist as such in 22.04.3 . Does it have another name?
[10:22] <ogra> Guest63, look for "Additional Drivers"
[10:23] <ogra> i.e. hit the windows key to bring up the search ... then type in that search term
[10:23] <ogra> err ... hit "windows + a"
[10:24] <ogra> (or search just for "drivers" one of these sould bring up the app)
[10:36] <throwthecheese> How do I make maliit-keyboard work on KDE Plasma?
[10:37] <throwthecheese> I enabled it using system settings but it won't appear
[10:37] <throwthecheese> Details: Ubunu 22.04, compiled from master branch
[10:40] <throwthecheese> + Plasma running on Wayland
[10:40] <weedmic> pydev1: did you accomplish what you wanted?
[10:40] <zniavre> ubuntu-driver-common
[10:44] <pydev1> weedmic, yes
[10:48] <throwthecheese> Any idea why maliit-keyboard doesn't appear for me?
[10:51] <throwthecheese> I installed maliit-keyboard from source, exported the input method env vars and enabled it using KDE system setting but it can't be invoked for some reason (environment: Ubuntu 22.04, KDE on Wayland)
[10:54] <pydev1> guys
[10:55] <pydev1> is it possible to force permissions during the creation of a file?
[10:55] <pydev1> for example i see when i create a file
[10:55] <pydev1> it sets rw rw r
[10:55] <pydev1> what about if i want to force rw rw - only ?
[10:55] <pydev1> is that possible?
[10:55] <pydev1> without running chmod everytime ?
[10:55] <weedmic> you do not mean sticky bits w chmod command - correct?
[10:55] <pydev1> i need to pull data form a repository...
[10:56] <pydev1> i need to give read and write permissions just for user and group
[10:56] <pydev1> for other NO
[10:56] <pydev1> *others
[10:56] <pydev1> but now i see it creates the file with rw-rw-r--
[10:57] <pydev1> is possible to set no permissions to others inside a specific directory ?
[10:57] <pydev1> it is not a big problem...just asking if i need to run chmod again and again
[10:57] <pydev1> or i can siply add a rule to force rw-rw----
[10:58] <chrfle> Hello. I got a Dell laptop which I've tried updating the system firmware to 3.16.0 and later 3.17.0 but neither has booted. I see that there's a 3.15.0 available. How do I ask fwupdmgr to install that specific version and not the latest one? (I'm currently on 3.11.0)
[10:59] <pydev1> for example in my home directory no other users should read/write/access
[10:59] <pydev1> nothing
[10:59] <pydev1> is that possible weedmic ?
[10:59] <ravage> pydev1: https://phoenixnap.com/kb/what-is-umask
[11:01] <weedmic> ty ravage - pydev1 read that it gives examples too.
[11:02] <pydev1> ok so basically i can set umask
[11:02] <pydev1> for specific user/group too
[11:03] <pydev1> weedmic, I have a doubt.... is umask ... "global" ? i mean...lets suppose i want to give rw-rw--- for a specific folder
[11:04] <pydev1> is not possible?
[11:05] <pydev1> for example inside the user A home's i would like to set rw-rw--- for the user B home's i would like to set rw-rw-rw-
[11:06] <pydev1> is that possible or is that just a globla setting ?
[11:06] <pydev1> *global
[11:12] <weedmic> as far as I know umask is global and not per directory - read the manpage to be sure and also check setfacl, and as suggested chmod (usually not used by most first digit) x550 - you may see that when a file is put into the directory it is changed to what you want.
[12:21] <pydev1> weedmic, thank you
[13:03] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:06] <hid3> Hello everyone. Is it possible to somehow run a script/command only once after next reboot? I'm setting up a linux server build, some actions needs to be done after reboot. E.g. certain files removed, etc
[13:07] <dTal> Sure, just make the script delete itself
[13:07] <dTal> or less dramatically, remove itself from the boot sequence
[13:08] <hid3> any suggestions on adding it to boot sequence? Anything easier than making a systemd service file?
[13:08] <ogra> hid3, read up about systemd oneshot daemons
[13:09] <dTal> The traditional way would be rc.local
[13:10] <ogra> back in the days, yeah
[13:10] <dTal> Still perfectly valid
[13:17] <ravage> rc.local is a one-shot daemon. so yes
[13:23] <ekaleido> and leeches can, in some cases, be use to clean blood ;)
[13:34] <strk> where does the "XXXX updates can be applied" message on login comes from ?
[13:34] <strk> cannot find the string in /etc/
[13:36] <strk> found: /etc/update-motd.d/90-updates-available
[13:42] <jackneill> hey. for japanese ime what is the preferred way? i saw a multiude of apps, ibus, anthy, mozc, fcitx...
[13:59] <elias_a> jackneill: What is japanese ime?
[14:00] <ogra> ime -> input method
[14:06] <elias_a> Ok. So the question is "What is the preferred ime for japanese?" Do I get this right?
[14:08] <ogra> yes, i think so
[14:10] <ogra> jackneill, does ths help ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JapaneseInput
[14:10] <ogra> (seems that recommends Mozc ... )
[14:11] <jackneill> thank you.
[14:12] <ianliu> My ubuntu server is experiencing some slowness when making simple file system operations, such as mkdir, mv, cp, etc. Sometimes mkdir takes 5 seconds to create a directory. What could I do to debug whats happening to my system? I've already looked into "iotop", which is reporting very low disk usage (in the order of kb/s read/write). Is there anything else I could do?
[14:14] <gebbione> i am trying to run a snap app called pacman-revenge but it is not starting even if it says so ... this is what i see but the app does not start https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fMRWGsQNNC/ any suggestions?
[14:20] <ravage> gebbione: same here. contact the developer
[14:20] <gebbione> ravage, thank you for running it
[14:20] <oerheks>  re-install the fontconfig package?
[14:21] <ravage> it is part of the snap
[14:21] <ravage> no local packages should affect the snap runtime
[14:22] <oerheks> this post says reinstall fixes this https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=148514.0 and this one about steam gives fontconfig 32 bit fixes things https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/htzwlo/steam_font_problem/
[14:29] <jhutchins> ianliu: Have you looked at dmesg?
[14:56] <Jackneill> hey.  i installed a fresh ubuntu 23.04 and cinnamon desktop on it. from settings i cannot open the Themes module.
[14:56] <Jackneill> https://pastebin.com/nAQ4b6wk this is the error i get.
[14:57] <Jackneill> i ask here because they sent me here from official linux mint help from spotchat.
[15:04] <ioria> Jackneill, interesting
[15:05] <ioria> Jackneill, WEBKIT_DISABLE_COMPOSITING_MODE=1 cinnamon-settings
[15:05] <Jackneill> same error
[15:05] <Niclos> Hello all, how to integrate two LDAPs on the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[15:06] <Jackneill> i have forund similar issues: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cinnamon/+bug/2009311 but no solution there
[15:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2009311 in cinnamon (Ubuntu) "cinnamon-settings.py crashed with UnboundLocalError in create_scaled_surface(): cannot access local variable 'pixbuf' where it is not associated with a value" [Medium, New]
[15:06] <ioria> Jackneill, dpkg -l | grep goa | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:07] <Jackneill> ioria, https://termbin.com/1p5u
[15:09] <ioria> Jackneill, env | grep SESSION_DESKTOP
[15:11] <Jackneill> ioria,  XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=cinnamon
[15:12] <ioria> Jackneill, ps -A | grep -i xorg
[15:16] <Jackneill> ioria,    2138 tty2     00:09:50 Xorg
[15:16] <Jackneill>  105182 tty3     00:00:36 Xorg
[15:16] <Jackneill> i have 2 user logins now, but the error was there with 1 also
[15:20] <Niclos> Is there any way to integrate two LDAPs on the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[15:21] <ioria> Jackneill, cat -n /usr/share/cinnamon/cinnamon-settings/cinnamon-settings.py  | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:26] <Rilixit> I NEED HELP
[15:26] <Rilixit> pls
[15:27] <Rilixit> anyone ?
[15:27] <Rilixit> hello ?
[15:27] <oerheks> hi Rilixit, ask wait and see
[15:27] <Rilixit> so i cloned my hdd to an ssd using macrium reflect 8
[15:27] <Rilixit> but the Pc's bios does not recognise it
[15:28] <ioria> Jackneill, ubuntucinnamon-environment maybe missing
[15:30] <oerheks> Rilixit, does not see it at all, or just cannot boot from it?
[15:30] <Rilixit> both
[15:30] <Rilixit> sometimes\
[15:30] <Rilixit> it doesnt see
[15:30] <Rilixit> sometimes it doesnt boot
[15:30] <oerheks> sounds like a hw issue..
[15:30] <Rilixit> ssd is sata III but the PC is sata II
[15:30] <Rilixit> is that it ?
[15:31] <Rilixit> i thought SATA was backwards compatiable
[15:31] <oerheks> most pc's do, yes
[15:31] <oerheks> but sometimes it works, so it not the bios/pc
[15:31] <oerheks> check cable and power, i have no clue
[15:32] <Rilixit> for the record the PC is a dell Inspiron 1525 and the ssd is a zebronicss-d52
[15:32] <Jackneill> ioria, oh indeed its not installed
[15:32] <ioria> let's try it an reboot
[15:32] <Jackneill> the site i got the pkg list for cinnamon de install didnt list it. just a group package if i recall cinnamon or something
[15:33] <ioria> nope...
[15:33] <Jackneill> maybe should be included in the meta pkg?
[15:33] <Jackneill> i cant reboot now as im copying files for another 35 min (new install), after that i will try, thank you
[15:33] <ioria>  cinnamon-desktop-environment
[15:34] <ioria> ubuntucinnamon-desktop
[15:34] <Rilixit> Jackneill I'm pretty sure apt has cinnamon
[15:34] <Rilixit> that's how I installed it
[15:34] <ioria> or cinnamon-desktop-environment
[15:34] <Rilixit> sudo apt install cinnamon-desktop-environment
[15:34] <ioria> brb
[15:35] <oerheks> !info ubuntucinnamon-desktop
[15:35] <Rilixit> guys
[15:36] <Rilixit> the problem isn't going
[15:43] <maxtim> I'm running Pop_OS!. I can connect to my Debian machine using ssh. I cannot connect to one of my Ubuntu machines via ssh. However, same LAN, different machine, I can connect to the Ubuntu machine. How can I troubleshoot this issue?
[15:44] <Niclos> Hi all, Is there any way to integrate two different LDAPs on the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[16:25] <pick> Hi are the directions given for 20.04 in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack    current for 22.04 or is there a more current reference for using HWE or OEM Kernels?
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> !hwe
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> is what we usualy provide to users
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> pick: are you looking for a specific layout?
[16:29] <pick> pardon, what is layout?
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> pick: i mean are you looking for something specific to solve on your system like an oem kernel for a specific brand for example?
[16:30] <pick> I'm trying, on an Ubuntu certified Dell laptop with hybrid NVidia/Intel graphics, to get external monitors to work.
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> ah
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> !hardware | pick
[16:31] <oerheks> i see 22.04 is not on that page;  sudo apt install linux-generic-hwe-22.04  # and for oem it is still the same
[16:33] <maxtim> I can ping the host, I can traceroute the host. tcptraceroute fails. telnet fails. Yet I know port 22 is open since I can ssh to other machines and I can ssh to the host from other machines. So what gives? Also worth noting, same results either wired ethernet or wifi...
[16:33] <pick> I've tried to read up on the difference between OEM and HWE without comprehension; is OEM more bleeding edge?
[16:33] <lotuspsychje> pick: in some cases, a specific brand will get recognized by ubuntu setup and pull a specific OEM kernel, some users reported that in the past happening
[16:33] <oerheks> !info linux-oem-22.04 jammy
[16:33] <lotuspsychje> pick: but for dell, some cases you might need packages from dells repos too, and there are packages for dell on the ubuntu repos
[16:34] <pick> !info linux-generic-hwe-22.04
[16:34] <pick> !info linux-generic-hwe-22.04 jammy
[16:36] <pick> lotuspsychje: how to know whether I need those other repository and which to use?
[16:36] <pick> Where is the Dell repository documented?
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> pick: usualy apt is pretty intuitive and picks the best packages for your hardware
[16:37] <redlegion> anyone know how to get F12 to send F12 with byobu/tmux?
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> pick: but in some cases your end desktop install doesnt seem to have all your hardware devices working, it might need finetuning
[16:38] <oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dell
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> pick: i think the best case to start with, is this installing ubuntu connected to internet and let apt pull updates during setup
[17:13] <Niclos98> Hello all, Is there any way to integrate two different LDAPs on the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[18:10] <tomreyn> Niclos98: what do you mean by "integrate"? do you want to run two ldap server instances on one ubuntu server installation? do you want to have pam do ldap lookups against multiple directory servers?
[18:11] <tomreyn> (and why is this a realistic use case?)
[18:25] <Niclos98> tomreyn: I have two domains that have LDAP/AD, so I want those domain users to access the Ubuntu 22.04 LTS server? One of the domains already LDAP is integrated, so just add the other one.
[18:28] <tomreyn> Niclos98: if you're using sssd, you should be able to define different lookup servers for different domains: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-sssd-ldap
[19:12] <Niclos98> tomreyn: So, just add the second domain to /etc/sssd/sssd.conf --configuration file?
[19:20] <tomreyn> Niclos98: i'd think so (but have not set this up myself)
[19:25] <topcat001> BinarySavior: can you explain how your graphics is set up? Is it a laptop with optimus, or a desktop with a single nvidia gpu?
[20:17] <H3dn1ng> Where are snap install/uninstall logs?
[20:19] <oerheks> zgrep snapd $(/bin/ls -r /var/log/syslog*) | grep -v audit
[20:20] <oerheks> also; snap changes # will let you know what changed.
[20:22] <oerheks> sudo snap logs SNAP_NAME -f # per application
[20:29] <H3dn1ng> oerheks: sudo snap logs firefox -f
[20:29] <H3dn1ng> fel: snap "firefox" has no services
[20:30] <H3dn1ng> oerheks: snap changes is very short term, for some reason
[20:31] <oerheks> i see, i tried with redis, that worked...
[20:32] <oerheks> zgrep snapd $(/bin/ls -r /var/log/syslog*) | grep -v firefox
[20:36] <H3dn1ng> oerheks: Thanks for ur help. I'm looking for install/upgrade/unisntall info :)
[20:44] <joseph1> I have to hand it to ubuntu - I just has a "linux" friend install mx-linux - what a disaster - I finally convinced him to install ubuntu - everything worked. amazing. you people really have your stuff together.
[20:48] <oerheks> !yay
[20:48] <joseph1> hey oerheks , thanks buddy.
[20:49] <joseph1> I came from bsd 3.6 and mandrake when I installed ubuntu 6.06 - never looked back.
[20:50] <joseph1> Have a good day folks.
[21:25] <ash_m> I have a repo apparently in apt which is missing a key and causing apt-update to fail; I actually don't remember why this repo is even there, is there a way for me to find out?
[21:26] <ravage> ash_m: try https://github.com/ericj112/ppa-tool/blob/master/ppa-tool.sh
[21:27] <ravage> or for a direct download https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ericj112/ppa-tool/master/ppa-tool.sh
[21:28] <ravage> © EriC^^ :)
[21:28] <EriC^^> xD
[21:29]  * ash_m trying it
[21:31] <ash_m> well, it does tell me that the ppa in question is active; but I'm trying to get an idea of what software is associated with that ppa
[21:31] <ravage> -i
[21:31] <ash_m> interesting, that's not in the help
[21:32] <ravage> echo "-i, --installed		list installed packages from ppa"
[21:32] <ash_m> when I did `ppa-tool.sh -i` it said: Error: ppa list file ... doesn't exsit
[21:33] <ash_m> and `apt update` fails because of the key
[21:33] <ash_m> it's for http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/ars3n1y/xUbuntu_21.04/
[21:33] <ash_m> is ars3n1y a trusted user?
[21:33] <ravage> thst looks old
[21:34] <ash_m> it might be; if I had to guess, I would bet this was in an attempt to install tdlib-purple to use telegram on bitlbee
[21:34] <ravage> it provides libpurple-telegram-tdlib
[21:34] <ash_m> ravage: wow
[21:34] <ravage> remove the package. delete the list file
[21:34] <ravage> be happy
[21:35] <ash_m> wow @ (1) I was right and (2) you found that so quickly; how did you know?
[21:35] <ravage> looked at https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/ars3n1y/xUbuntu_21.04/Packages
[21:37] <ash_m> i see; I don't think there is a good terminal program for telegram anymore
[21:37] <ash_m> ravage: E: Unable to locate package libpurple-telegram-tdlib
[21:38] <ash_m> so then I should just remove the repo, yea?
[21:38] <ravage> then skip step one and delete the list file :)
[21:38] <ash_m> ravage: by "list file" you mean the one in the message: Error: ppa list file /var/lib/apt/lists/download.opensuse.org_repositories_home:_ars3n1y_xUbuntu_21.04_dists____*_Packages doesn't exist
[21:38] <oerheks> https://github.com/majn/telegram-purple as https://github.com/ars3niy/tdlib-purple is old
[21:39] <ash_m> oerheks: yeah
[21:39] <ravage> ash_m: it should be in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[21:39] <ash_m> okay, probably the one that says that funky user name :P
[21:40] <ash_m> yay; it's working
[21:40] <ash_m> ravage: I'm on step 3 now
[21:40] <ash_m> (be happy)
[21:40] <ravage> great :D
[21:41] <ravage> for telegram and all other messangers i moved to matrix. but thats a personal preference :)
[21:42] <ash_m> ravage: I have only used matrix as a webgui. Is it also a terminal client?
[21:42] <ravage> i think there is more than one
[21:42] <joseph1> whoever did that - thanks - I get it.
[21:42] <ravage> ash_m: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/
[21:42] <ash_m> isn't matrix now element?
[21:43] <ash_m> oh it isn't
[21:43] <ash_m> element is a certain client
[21:44] <ash_m> ravage: is the one that you use a terminal client?
[21:44] <ravage> no i just use Element. i dont need a terminal client really on the desktop
[21:46] <ash_m> boo
[21:46] <ash_m> :P
[21:51] <ash_m> all the terminal ones listed there are α or β
[21:52] <ash_m> looks like znc is gonna be restarted, ttys
[21:57] <ash_m> is there an easy way to restart an encrypted device remotely?
[22:19] <joseph1> over clocked to +3675 - excellent - well done.
[22:19] <joseph1> chow.
[22:24] <Guest899> hi
[22:30] <joseph1> I need more goodies.
[22:32] <joseph1> Is a ham radio repairman - bring it.
[22:32] <joseph1> retired.
[22:33] <Eickmeyer> !info hamradio-all
[22:34] <joseph1> looks - thanks.
[22:34] <Eickmeyer> !info klog
[22:34] <joseph1> Excellent.
[22:34] <Eickmeyer> Tons of stuff for ham radio in the repos. Just 'sudio apt search ham radio'.
[22:35] <Eickmeyer> *sudo apt search ham radio
[22:35] <sarnold> (no need for sudo there :)
[22:35]  * archpc tosses a Lunar Lobster into the room, runs away
[22:35] <Eickmeyer> True, habit be habiting.
[22:35] <joseph1> I dont do packet but strictly rf out-put -  I build high power amps.
[22:36] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I don't know enough, but there's tons of stuff.
[22:36] <joseph1> Mostly 2sc-2879.
[22:36] <Eickmeyer>  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[22:36] <joseph1> @ 17-21 volts.
[22:36] <joseph1> class AB
[22:36] <joseph1> ssb
[22:36] <Eickmeyer> There's even a podcast called Linux in the Ham Shack that you might enjoy.
[22:37] <joseph1> nice
[22:38] <joseph1> I also help out the 11 meter "responsible" users, who know antenna theory.
[22:38] <Ekuzu> Hey!
[22:39] <joseph1> Thanks for your help Ekuzu.
[22:39] <Eickmeyer> 🤣
[22:40] <joseph1> chow folks.
[22:40] <Eickmeyer> o/
[22:40] <joseph1> done.
[22:46] <ash_m> I know I've asked this before but does anyone have any idea how I might find out why some apps end up behind the launcher in maximized mode after waking? I have some journal output, but I don't really know what I'm looking for
[22:47] <ash_m> https://gist.github.com/ash-m/c18206d0d4249cf457bd760533a2eb53
[22:48] <sarnold> ash_m: wild guess, try disabling all your gnome extensions, see if you can reproduce it, bring them back one at a time, see if you can reproduce it, etc
[22:51] <joseph1> I have a set of cams - chinese - with solar charging - with separate router manual connect - how would zone-minder work . just a suggestion.
[22:52] <joseph1> or - what would - yes - cams are - wireless.
[22:52] <joseph1> generic
[22:53] <joseph1> without etho
[22:53] <joseph1> on their own.
[22:54] <joseph1> wait - with etho - on their own.
[22:57] <joseph1> I get it - hard call - ill just load another hd and try - thanks
[22:58] <sarnold> .. did you ever get around to an actual question in there? :)
[22:58] <joseph1> and stop the updates when it works - el-oh-el.
[22:58] <joseph1> kinda sarnold
[22:58] <joseph1> lemme ask again
[22:59] <joseph1> I have a set of wireless cams - they need to work to my machine - without actual - internet.
[23:00] <joseph1> they have a personal router.
[23:01] <joseph1> done
[23:03] <sarnold> I think you might have been on the right track with "I'll just .. try"  :) there's hundreds of cameras and some are hardcoded to send their video to cloud servers on the internet, some can be configured where they should send their video, some will probably require network-level configuration, etc ..
[23:03] <joseph1> agreed
[23:04] <joseph1> thanks for your help sarnold . have a super day - im out for the nite with silly questions - thanks sarnold .
[23:04] <sarnold> gn8 joseph1 :)
[23:04] <joseph1> .
[23:05] <ash_m> sarnold: I'm about to ask something stupid: how do you disable gnome extensions?
[23:05] <sarnold> ash_m: hah, good question :) I've never actually used it..
[23:07] <ash_m> I think they're installed/managed through chromium iirc
[23:08] <sarnold> oh sheeeesh is there no friendly control panel thing for it? the website does sure look like the browser is the way to do it. heh.
[23:08] <sarnold> maybe ls ~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions     -- lets see if this is remotely useful
[23:11] <ash_m> I haven't gone through the steps on this machine to set that up; there's some native thing you have to enable lest you get a big warning about it; that said, it didn't really say anything was installed; I'll check that dir
[23:14] <ash_m> sarnold: that directory doesn't exist, it's parent has children: ["Standard input code","application_state","gnome-overrides-migrated","notifications"]
[23:14] <ash_m> erm
[23:14] <ash_m> not that first one
[23:14] <ash_m> ["application_state","gnome-overrides-migrated","notifications"]
[23:15] <sarnold> ash_m: well, the good news is that this isn't likely to be your problem ;) the bad news is, it was my only idea :(
[23:15] <ash_m> hah
[23:15] <pick> @lotus
[23:15] <sarnold> right?
[23:15] <sarnold> he'd have an idea, but it's too early for him
[23:15] <sarnold> in the meantime, I suggest filing a bug report; ubuntu-bug gnome-shell -- and describe how to see what you're seeing, include a screenshot if you can :)
[23:16] <ash_m> there are several lines in the journal output that have terminal=? ... could that mean anything
[23:16] <ash_m> ?
[23:16] <ash_m> there's already this, but it doesn't have a lot of traction; my guess is many people don't have this problem... I don't know why I'm one of the few that do
[23:16] <ash_m> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1433479/maximized-windows-become-maximized-behind-launcher
[23:17] <ash_m> ^ this*
[23:17] <pick> oerheks: thank you that ubuntu Dell link seems helpful, will try
[23:21] <ash_m> this is the second device to experience this problem so I can only guess it's (1) some software I installed... I do use `xclip -sel c` a lot /shrug. or (2) the fact that both machines came with windows preinstalled (former was an MSI, new one is Dell)
[23:21] <ash_m> dunno why that would mean anything but I've seen stranger things in my life
[23:44] <sarnold> ash_m :( still, it's probabyl worth a bug report; the one comment suggests suspend/resume as a proximate event, that's probably worth mentioning if you see that or if you don;t
[23:46] <Jinsu> hey, what is mtu size by default in ubuntu ?
[23:53] <preson1c> i can pretty much trust that linux/ubuntu wont make ANY modifications to drive after i plug in via usb, i have to make an EXACT image using dd
[23:53] <sarnold> that is not a safe assumption
[23:53] <sarnold> ubuntu by default mounts things when they are plugged in
[23:54] <preson1c> mount and modify?
[23:54] <sarnold> you should not be using ubuntu to collect drive images for forensics, without taking steps to prevent automatic drive mounting first
[23:54] <preson1c> ok
[23:55] <ash_m> sarnold: which client do you use for matrix?
[23:55] <sarnold> ash_m: I use irssi for irc. no matrix.
[23:55] <ash_m> sarnold: I thought you use matrix for tg and all non-irc comms?
[23:56] <sarnold> ash_m: nope; there's another sarnold in gentoo-land, I understand, maybe that's him you're thikning of?
[23:56] <ash_m> wtf. I swear it was today I was talking to someone here about it
[23:56]  * ash_m is looking in log files
[23:57] <sarnold> 2023-08-23 21:41:38 < ravage> for telegram and all other messangers i moved to matrix. but thats a personal preference :)
[23:58] <ash_m> that's it
[23:58] <ash_m> and I just realized that I don't know where my logs are
[23:59] <ash_m> I have znc running and attach irssi to that
[23:59] <ash_m> on a remote machine
[23:59] <ash_m> I ssh'ed into the user running znc and irclogs/libera-znc only has 2 files


[12:56] <dantalizing> morning
[12:58] <DammitJim> morning
[12:59] <dantalizing> has anyone been talking about release parties?
[13:01] <maxolasersquad> dantalizing: I've got one scheduled in Pensacola with the lug there.
[13:01] <maxolasersquad> Is there some place to add these things?
[13:02] <dantalizing> maxolasersquad: the loco directory
[13:09] <dantalizing> i hadnt seen anything in the mailing list so i was just wondering if maybe discussion had been happening here instead
[13:10] <dantalizing> i'm thinking of doing one here in gainesville too
[13:10] <dantalizing> havent really talked with anyone locally yet though
[13:15] <mhall119> dantalizing: we discussed doing one in Orlando, but no plans yet
[13:16] <dantalizing> nice mhall119
[13:17] <dantalizing> why isnt ropetin_ stepping up in mia
[13:19] <dantalizing> just fyi everyone ... i've also asked reya276 to help with some rebranding for the fb page and the loco logo ... we still have th old style branding
[13:21] <mhall119> dantalizing: rebranding the FB page for the new timeline stuffs?
[13:22] <dantalizing> mhall119: right
[13:22] <mhall119> dantalizing: also, there is a community developed WP theme for the new branding
[13:22] <dantalizing> i thought we were already using it
[13:22] <dantalizing> is there another one?
[13:23] <mhall119> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-wordpress-theme is the latest
[13:23] <mhall119> I think our current one uses the wrong shade of Orange
[13:23] <dantalizing> it is
[13:23] <dantalizing> i'll check it out
[13:23] <dantalizing> i think this is where we're pulling from already
[13:24] <dantalizing> although its been a while so i could be wrong
[13:25] <maxolasersquad> We should really push to have release parties on the LTSes.
[13:26] <dantalizing> +1 maxolasersquad
[13:26] <dantalizing> we should push them for all releases .. but maybe smaller events for the interim releases
[13:27] <maxolasersquad> Indeed
[13:27] <DammitJim> man, all you guys do is talk about parties... what's up with that? :D
[13:27] <DammitJim> mhall119, btw, I heard your bday was a couple of weeks ago... Happy Belated Bday
[13:28] <mhall119> thanks DammitJim
[14:03] <maxolasersquad> DammitJim: And sometimes we actually party ... but mostly we talk. :)
[14:21] <maxolasersquad> I love reading this stuff.    Use a real Linux distro."   Use Ubuntu.
[14:23] <dantalizing> also endlessly helpful ^^^^ :(
[14:26] <maxolasersquad> I'm going to start using that as a defacto response to all problems raised.
[14:26] <maxolasersquad> "My car won't start"  "Ford's suck, use Ubuntu."
 It's a Ford. You know what Ford stands for? Fix It Again Tony.
[16:44] <maxolasersquad> Anyone else here using centerim?
[17:54] <maxolasersquad> I'm trying to add a release party at loco.ubuntu.com/events.  I've got everything figured out, but there is nobody listed in the "Event Contact" dropdown, so it won't let me add the event.
[17:54] <maxolasersquad> Anyone know what to do?
[17:54] <maxolasersquad> mhall119 ^^^
[17:57] <maxolasersquad> I could see in the HTML all the Florida team members listed in an optgroup, but nothing in the rendered page, perhaps its a bug with epiphany.
[17:58] <maxolasersquad> Anyhow, I modified the DOM so that the  ------ selection had my id for the value and it accepted it and put me as the contact.
[17:59] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: huh, must be epiphany, it shows fine in chromium
[18:00] <maxolasersquad> Yeah, I just checked Firefox and all was kosher.
[18:01] <maxolasersquad> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1616/detail/
[18:01] <maxolasersquad> Inspector FTW


[01:15] <Test_> Question.  why would the desktop show applications on the left side and another time I boot the desktop applications are a pull down menu
[01:17] <Test_> anyone have a reason?
[01:20] <ChinnoDog> Test_: Did you change your video card or video driver configuration?
[01:21] <Test_> No on video card change
[01:22] <ChinnoDog> I'm assuming we are talking about the difference between runnning Unity and running the classic gnome desktop here
[01:22] <Test_> The problem I have is a application wont work on the pull down menu
[01:22] <ChinnoDog> Unity won't run if a) the video card won't support or be) you selected the classic desktop at login
[01:22] <ChinnoDog> What doesn't work about it?
[01:23] <Test_> I think I running gnome
[01:24] <JonathanD> hi ChinnoDog
[01:24] <ChinnoDog> There shouldn't be any functional differences whether running Unity or not.
[01:24] <ChinnoDog> (aside from the obvious operation of the task bark and some desktop elements)
[01:24] <Test_>  Application is DraftSight.  everything shows up in the graphic window but non-functionable
[01:25] <ChinnoDog> oh. It is CAD software. The reason you ended up at the classic desktop is probably also the reason Unity isn't running. Your 3D acceleration is broken
[01:25] <ChinnoDog> What kind of video card do you have?
[01:26] <ChinnoDog> oops, I mean the reason you aren't running unity is the reason DraftSight doesn't work
[01:26] <Test_> The change in the desktop is kind of random.  some times its the pull down and othertimes it shows apps on the right side
[01:27] <ChinnoDog> You have an intermittent problem but it probably starts at your video card
[01:27] <ChinnoDog> Or the driver
[01:27] <ChinnoDog> What kind of card do you have?
[01:28] <Test_> let me check on the card
[01:29] <ChinnoDog> just run lspci
[01:30] <Test_> I'm using a mac for Ichat--Ubuntu is on a pc
[01:31] <Test_> how do I run lspci?
[01:31] <ChinnoDog> Run it in a terminal
[01:31] <ChinnoDog> Terminal is on your menu somewhere
[01:31] <Test_> ok
[01:32] <ChinnoDog> It will dump out the identifier strings for all your PCI devices including your video card
[01:36] <ChinnoDog> I need a shower. Once you are in terminal you can also try: glxinfo | grep 'vendor'
[01:36] <ChinnoDog> That will show what 3D acceleration library is in use
[01:36] <ChinnoDog> I'll be back
[01:38] <Test_> I'm going to have to spend some time on this--as you can see I'm not good with computers
[02:09] <ChinnoDog> gone...
[21:05]  * ChinnoDog yawns


[00:54] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'll have to check it out then... its definitely screwy on my vivid+gtk3.16 box
[00:55] <bluesabre> re the greeter, its a known issue, and there is a workaround
[00:55] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1460303/comments/6
[00:55] <Unit193> "downgrade" :---D
[00:56] <bluesabre> ;)
[00:56] <Unit193> You know, it's harder to troll/make comments when the Xubuntu devs are the actual upstream maintainers...
[00:56] <bluesabre> >.>
[00:57] <bluesabre> maybe I should go ahead and fix it myself
[00:57] <Unit193> What about the dialog box flicker?
[00:57] <Unit193> Started in 2.0.0 I believe, a bit annoying IMO.
[00:59] <bluesabre> haven't seen a flicker
[01:01] <Unit193> I see it in Xubuntu and Debian.
[01:04] <bluesabre> when does it happen?
[01:06] <Unit193> It is the login password prompt, right when typing your password and hitting <Enter>, it'll go away, flash up for a split second, then disappear again.
[01:07] <bluesabre> oh
[01:07] <bluesabre> never noticed that before
[01:07] <bluesabre> ever file a bug?
[01:07] <Unit193> "Yes"
[01:09] <bluesabre> :\
[01:13] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786620 heh.
[01:16] <bluesabre> that might be the previous image not being cleared on the screen
[01:16] <bluesabre> the "flicker" that is
[01:17] <bluesabre> I might be able to fix that
[01:18] <Unit193> \o/
[01:18] <Unit193> It's minor, but a bit annoying.
[01:19] <bluesabre> yeah
[01:19] <bluesabre> I'll also try to fix the background drawing without the workaround
[01:19] <bluesabre> might not happen tonight, but I think that's my immediate goal
[01:20] <Unit193> Heh, yep.  More annoying.
[06:50] <ochosi> morning everyone
[08:15] <ochosi> bluesabre: maybe you can just post some issues/screenshots of your issues and i'll check what's up with it in wily
[10:13] <ochosi> lunchtime, babl
[10:13] <ochosi> bbabl
[11:39] <bluesabre> :D
[11:39] <Unit193> Good plan.
[11:39] <ochosi> bluesabre: feel free to create a workitem on the lp bp as well
[11:41] <bluesabre> done
[11:41] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:41] <Unit193> Oh gosh, two trackers.
[11:41] <ochosi> yeah
[11:41] <Unit193> Plus junk/todo.txt :3
[11:41] <bluesabre> one's easier for comments
[11:41] <bluesabre> :D
[11:42] <Unit193> One gets tracked in here, one via my email. :P
[18:01] <Yanpas> Hello everybody! Recently xfce leader  Olivier Fourdan has fixed old annoying bug: tearing of xfwm4 compositor! https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10439
[18:02] <Yanpas> What does it mean for Xubuntu? New xfwm4 should be compiled with libepoxy-dev and libepoxy0 should included to Xubuntu
[18:03] <Yanpas> 15.10 of course
[18:08] <ochosi> Yanpas: hey. yes we're aware of that and i presume that'll land in wily (if it hasn't yet)
[18:12] <Yanpas> good to hear :)
[18:19] <Yanpas> And what is the status of QT icons support and theme? (In 15.04 QT apps gtk+ theme was fixed by saving qt4-qtconfig file, but it's no the correct way, just temporary workaround, cause both icons and theme work in trusty qithout any config files in user dir). Icons still unsupported. Is it XFCE or Xubuntu problem?
[18:19] <Yanpas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1451993
[20:08] <knome> ok, so we got first user telling they use chaletos...
[20:19] <drc> I saw some discussion the otherday about xubuntu-derivatives...what's the official position, help or no help?
[20:19] <knome> it's not black and white, but if it were, no help
[22:23] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://packages.qa.debian.org/e/evince/news/20150624T221919Z.html
[22:35] <ochosi> Unit193: oh, no more evince-gtk
[22:39] <ochosi> knome: ping
[22:41] <knome> ochosi, pong
[22:41] <ochosi> you around for a bit?
[22:41] <knome> i guess
[22:42] <ochosi> motivated too?
[22:42] <pleia2> drinking
[22:42] <ochosi> hehe
[22:42] <ochosi> that sounds more like it
[22:42] <knome> awwh, she exposed me
[22:43] <knome> revealed?
[22:43] <knome> whatever
[22:43] <knome> pleia2, tut tut!
[22:43] <knome> (:
[22:43] <pleia2> :)
[22:43] <pleia2> <3
[22:43]  * knome hugs pleia2
[22:43]  * pleia2 hugs
[22:44] <knome> ochosi, so, what's up?
[22:44] <Unit193> ochosi: Hopefully it's not needed, but we'll see.
[22:44] <ochosi> :)
[22:45] <ochosi> knome: was just wondering whether you wanna work on some stuff together
[22:45] <knome> hmmh
[22:45] <ochosi> but if you're drinking, i really don't wanna keep you... ;)
[22:45] <knome> hah
[22:45] <knome> icons, likely not
[22:46] <ochosi> well you still owe me the window-close icon for greybird ;)
[22:46] <ochosi> we need that for CSD
[22:46] <knome> wait, why do i owe it to you again?
[22:46] <knome> none of the other icons are in svg either!
[22:47] <knome> i mean i'm sure that was part of the problem
[22:47] <ochosi> cause you made the original and we agreed you'd be most fit to redo it in svg ;)
[22:47] <knome> exporting an svg didn't look good
[22:47] <knome> i remember doing some pixel pushing
[22:47] <ochosi> yeah, but the current icon sucks
[22:47] <ochosi> even without making it crispy-crisp, it has to be improved
[22:47] <knome> you need it in the same size?
[22:47] <knome> and in svg?
[22:48] <ochosi> i was also considering doing one or two more xfwm4 themes that are greybird-compatible that we can ship
[22:48] <knome> what does that mean?
[22:48] <ochosi> for higher res screens and maybe one with thicker borders so ppl with resize problems can use it
[22:48] <knome> and on the same note, why not the a11y version?
[22:48] <knome> yeah...
[22:48] <knome> that's it
[22:48] <ochosi> i'm just listing stuff that i'd be up for
[22:49] <ochosi> a11y version is too much work
[22:49] <ochosi> not exactly an all-nighter
[22:49] <knome> nope
[22:49] <knome> but thicker borders can be a start for that
[22:49] <ochosi> well xfwm4 theme is only a tiny part for an a11y theme anyway
[22:49] <knome> sure
[22:49] <ochosi> the real work is elsewhere
[22:49]  * knome shrugs
[22:49] <ochosi> mostly in gtk2
[22:49] <ochosi> but also in gtk3
[22:50] <knome> yep
[22:52] <ochosi> might also just draw some more LO icons, i'm almost done with what i wanted to achieve there anyway
[22:52] <knome> anything else than icon work?
[22:54] <ochosi> humm
[22:54]  * ochosi goes to check the blueprints
[22:54] <knome> heh
[22:54] <knome> we have the derivative guideline work
[22:54] <knome> and we might get pleia2 to help
[22:54] <ochosi> yeah, could also do that
[22:55] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-derivative-guidelines
[22:56] <knome> as you see in the pad, i've went through some of the derivatives
[22:56] <knome> and checked how they've done with our guidelines
[22:56] <knome> well, the WIP guidelines
[22:56] <knome> basically voyager is the only one very clearly breaking the rules
[22:57] <knome> lin4neuro is another that pretty much looks xubuntu with a different app selection
[22:58] <ochosi> so what is it you wanna do right now, wanna contact the most problematic ones?
[22:58] <ochosi> or do you want to finalize/publish the guidelines somewhere first?
[22:58] <knome> probably finalize them
[22:58] <knome> and get the rest of the derivatives checked
[22:58] <knome> and do a bit more research on derivatives
[22:59] <knome> eg. to see if we've missed some still
[22:59] <ochosi> sounds a bit boring considering the hour
[22:59] <knome> after that, i'd like to discuss with some kind of group what to do with the derivatives that are clearly breaking the rules
[22:59] <ochosi> but ok
[22:59] <ochosi> i guess we oughta get in touch with them
[23:00] <knome> another thing we need to cover on the guidelines is derivatives for home or very private use
[23:00] <ochosi> do we need any for that usecase?
[23:00] <knome> there was a question on the -devel queue about using a modified xubuntu system on a small office
[23:00] <knome> for like 3 people
[23:00] <knome> (i replied them)
[23:01] <knome> well it's probably good to mention that it is ok to modify xubuntu for personal/private use as long as it isn't distributed publicly
[23:01] <ochosi> right, i don't see any problem with private use
[23:01] <ochosi> yeah
[23:01] <pleia2> this is a good document
[23:01] <ochosi> that's a sentence we can add in
[23:01] <pleia2> knome: I know you had asked about money/donations whatever, but I'm inclined to ignore it entirely here and handle it privately on a case by case basis
[23:01] <pleia2> since they really do just need to chat with canonical legal
[23:02] <knome> pleia2, thing is, many of these derivatives ask for donations
[23:02] <knome> i'm wondering what we could do
[23:02] <pleia2> not my job
[23:02] <knome> one of the options i have been thinking is to ask them to consider tipping the community tip jar back
[23:03] <knome> even if that doesn't explicitly mean *we* get the money back
[23:03] <ochosi> yeah, i'm not sure that's really something i wanna get too involved in though
[23:03] <pleia2> one of the things support from canonical gets us is lawyers, I don't care but it's not my repos/direct resources they're leveraging and slapping their own name on
[23:03] <knome> yeah
[23:03] <knome> that's another thing we should discuss
[23:03] <knome> well, or not
[23:04] <knome> basically, pretty much all of these are using ubuntu repositories
[23:05] <pleia2> again, I don't really care and don't want to get involved
[23:05] <knome> yeah...
[23:05] <knome> me neither
[23:05] <knome> but it's good to ack that
[23:05] <pleia2> if they ask, we'll point them to canonical, but I don't want to initiate the discussion
[23:05] <knome> they likely won't ask
[23:05] <pleia2> if canonical has a problem with it, they'll let them know
[23:05] <knome> yep
[23:06] <knome> and they likely won't ;)
[23:06] <pleia2> pretty much
[23:06] <ochosi> yeah
[23:06] <ochosi> i'd rather not invest time/effort into "hunting folks down" for little/no obvious benefit
[23:06] <knome> yeah, that's not our point
[23:06] <ochosi> ideally yeah, they'd contribute back
[23:07] <ochosi> but they could've done so in the first place
[23:07] <knome> yep
[23:07] <ochosi> personally, the approach i prefer is sending out this questionnaire
[23:07] <pleia2> I think the point is having a complete document here for derivatives, but I'd rather just ignore it
[23:07] <ochosi> that might get us somewhere and it's basically already there, so not too much energy has to go into sending it out etc
[23:07] <knome> the complete document is the main point
[23:08] <knome> the questionnaire is to try to start some communication
[23:08] <knome> people can't really lie to us
[23:08] <pleia2> yay communicatino
[23:08] <knome> they can't tell they don't point people to our support outlets if they use our slideshow
[23:08] <ochosi> pleia2: is that spanish for "communication"? :]
[23:08] <knome> well they can, but we can call them out
[23:08] <pleia2> ochosi: har, I haven't even had beer yet!
[23:09] <ochosi> pleia2: that's not my fault!
[23:09] <pleia2> lol
[23:09] <ochosi> knome: true, i guess for most you've done the necessary research already
[23:09] <knome> for some of the derivatives, yeah
[23:10] <knome> we still have a bunch to go
[23:10] <ochosi> but doing that research is just really boring and i wonder where it'll get us if we don't act on it
[23:10] <knome> it likely is somewhat in vain
[23:11] <knome> but i don't think it's bad to know what people do with xubuntu either
[23:11] <ochosi> (i mean, maybe not the most boring thing i can imagine, since it's interesting to know... then again, i can imagine more constructive things to do)
[23:11] <knome> for example, pretty much all derivatives use the whisker menu
[23:11] <knome> so using it is likely a good idea
[23:11] <knome> or at least something the derivatives agree on
[23:12] <ochosi> right, we got no complaints about that one
[23:12] <ochosi> at least none that i heard/red
[23:12] <ochosi> read
[23:13] <knome> yep
[23:13] <knome> there is that one list too
[23:13] <knome> "Packages with Xubuntu branding"
[23:13] <knome> i need some insight to that from you/sean
[23:14] <Unit193> :3
[23:14] <knome> and Unit193 of course
[23:14] <knome> ochosi, remeber that we practically tell them to not use the *name* xubuntu either, so it needs to be a nasty purge :>
[23:15] <knome> so, onto specific problems....
[23:16] <knome> 1) voyager uses our installer slideshow; this is something i wouldn't give rope on - it needs to go
[23:16] <knome> 2) uxubos (http://sourceforge.net/projects/uxubos/) is problematic on several levels
[23:17] <knome> it claims to be a "respin" (which isn't a good/supported term) and implies to be "up-to-date"
[23:17] <knome> the latter can be interpreted as "xubuntu isn't up-to-date (or safe)"
[23:17] <knome> it also uses the xubuntu branding without the slightest intention to hide it
[23:18] <knome> and the long-version name "updated xubuntu os" is against the trademark laws
[23:18] <knome> if you asked me, i would rather just ask the person running it to stop doing it completely
[23:19] <knome> but of course they can keep on doing it - under a different name and with no xubuntu branding
[23:19] <Unit193> There's a few stray icons, I'd put them in the 'meta' xubuntu-artwork.  You also mentioned xubuntu-docs, I don't like the restriction personally on this even though it does have a lot of Xubuntu related stuff, it's valid for basic respinds.
[23:19] <knome> 3) security onion (http://securityonion.net/) is basically a PPA for ubuntu
[23:20] <knome> i would be in touch with them and discuss if they really want to go on distributing an ISO
[23:21] <knome> because then we could - based on our guidelines - likely support the core part of the OS
[23:21] <knome> just not the PPA
[23:22] <knome> Unit193, if you are really interested in being very kind to derivatives, we should 1) separate the startpage to another package 2) make sure the documentation doesn't have any mentions to xubuntu and 3) provide the logo from another package and link to it
[23:23] <knome> my personal opinion is that shipping the xubuntu documentation isn't a huge problem
[23:23] <knome> shipping the startpage is
[23:23] <ochosi> humm, i think i'm with pleia2 on this one, i'd rather ignore the derivatives. so far none of them has posed a real problem. as soon as they flood our support ML or channel, i'd probably reconsider. but for now i just see too little incentive (or maybe i'm just tired)
[23:24] <knome> ochosi, with what exactly? you both said the last thing 15 minutes ago
[23:24] <knome> ochosi, i think she was referring to using canonical/ubuntu repositories and asking for donations
[23:24] <pleia2> no, I'm not interested in going after them in general
[23:24] <knome> using the repositories won't be a problem to us - ever
[23:25] <pleia2> we should ask them to stop things that actively cause us problems, like using our support resources
[23:25] <ochosi> well, even following up with derivatives - even with problematic ones like voyager - is what i meant
[23:25] <drc> And what will you(all) do if you do not ignore them and one/any of them tell you to FOAD?
[23:25] <knome> i've seen enough support questions from voyager people to start to get annoying
[23:25] <knome> pleia2, ++
[23:25] <pleia2> but I won't go on a hunt for people using our logos, because eh
[23:25] <ochosi> right
[23:26] <ochosi> that's ok, we can tell voyager to stop pointing at our support resources
[23:26] <pleia2> we will officially ask them not to on our page, so they will know they're breaking rules (I think they're just unaware)
[23:26] <knome> pleia2, we'll see...
[23:26] <Unit193> pleia2: Like all the annoying French voyager users that join #xubuntu...
[23:26] <pleia2> Unit193: yes, that's really disruptive to us
[23:26] <knome> drc, you know i don't like that kind of language on this channel.
[23:27] <Unit193> "Ask nicer"?
[23:27] <Unit193> :P
[23:27] <drc> my appoligies.
[23:27] <Unit193> That is, to ask them nicer? :P
[23:27] <drc> the question remains.
[23:28] <knome> anyway, things we need to tackle (imo) are voyager, uxubos (updated xubuntu os) and that weird "xubuntu piqo edition"
[23:28] <knome> no, i don't think they can say "xubuntu" on the derivative name, that's a bit too far (yeah, it isn't too hard to not do that...)
[23:28] <pleia2> I don't really have the energy for the latter 2
[23:29] <knome> who said you should? :)
[23:29] <knome> i can handle that
[23:29] <knome> and when i say handle, i don't mean i'll pester them night and day until they stop doing that
[23:29] <pleia2> heh, ok
[23:29] <knome> i mean just asking them and pointing out that they really shouldn't do that
[23:29] <knome> and "here's the derivative guideline document"
[23:30] <knome> drc, ^ does that answer your question?
[23:30] <knome> but seriously,
[23:30] <drc> yes, but what if they continue to ignore it/you?
[23:31] <drc> And I am serious.
[23:31] <knome> even the voyager questions might be more okay on our channel if we actively communicated with the voyager developer(s) about what they are changing in xubuntu etc
[23:31] <drc> What I'm getting at is you have only one option...sic the lawyers on them....have you cleared this with the lawyers yet?
[23:31] <knome> i don't know, but it isn't out of question to poke the canonical legal dept.
[23:32] <pleia2> except in the case of voyager using our support resources, I'd just let the rest go
[23:32] <knome> we don't need to clear this with the lawyers - canonical owns the trademark "xubuntu" and legally, they need to defend their trademarks
[23:32] <knome> pleia2, sure, i was referring to those who mention xubuntu in the OS name
[23:32] <drc> but will they, that's what I'm asking?
[23:32] <pleia2> we can contact them, explain the rules, and live our life
[23:33] <knome> well that's constructive
[23:33] <pleia2> o_O
[23:33] <knome> yeah, whether canonical legal will or won't do something isn't to my interest
[23:34] <knome> drc, whether canonical legal will or won't do something isn't to my interest
[23:35] <knome> but from a common sense point of view, if i was a derivative developer, i'd think twice changing the derivative name if somebody said they'll notice a legal department about a potential trademark breach
[23:36] <knome> and no, my intention isn't to scare derivatives off
[23:36] <knome> i'd like their developers to hang out on this channel (and be active enough that we knew who they were)
[23:38] <Unit193> Wait, so they can't say "derivative of Xubuntu"? 0_o
[23:38] <knome> they can.
[23:38] <Unit193> So, I read what you said wrong then.
[23:38] <knome> but the derivative name can't be "Xubuntu Piqo Edition" (for example)
[23:38] <Unit193> Right.
[23:39] <Unit193> A-ok.
[23:39] <knome> nor can they say (or imply) that they are a respin or any other official variant of xubuntu
[23:39] <knome> which is what uxubos and voyager might be doing
[23:39] <knome> uxubos because what they tell they are (and the name) and voyager, because they use our installer slideshow which says "welcome to xubuntu"
[23:40] <knome> compare the latter to the documentation, which says "welcome to xubuntu xx.xx documentation"
[23:41] <ochosi> sry folks, i'm out. too tired, need to get some sleep
[23:41] <ochosi> nighty!
[23:41] <pleia2> night ochosi
[23:41] <knome> nighty ochosi
[23:43] <knome> and the guidelines do say that we try to make removing the branding easy too
[23:43] <knome> which is what we should try to do
[23:43] <knome> it's not like we're deliverately hiding xubuntu icons in every possible package


 I know you found the commit that created the issue, but you said it was probably not a bug in that changeset?
[07:25] <pitti> seb128: yes, it has been fixed in vivid for several days
[07:25] <larsu> morning folks!
[07:25] <seb128> pitti, fixed or workarounded?
[07:25] <pitti> seb128: right, I still don't fully understand it; sometimes the new state keeping functionality confuses dbus, and you have to restart dbus in order to get things back to work
[07:25] <pitti> seb128: worked around by reverting the new feature
[07:26] <seb128> pitti, ok, that was what I was asking, if you figured out why dbus get confused
[07:26] <pitti> seb128: I'm still looking at it on and off, but I have several other urgent things to do too, so it's not my #1 prio ATM
[07:26] <seb128> seems not then
[07:26] <seb128> pitti, yeah, boot is working again, so not a top priority indeed
[07:26] <pitti> seb128: yesterday I installed F21 and upgraded to rawhide's dbus and systemd, and I couldn't reproduce it there
[07:26] <seb128> pitti, :-/
[07:26] <pitti> but my "fast reproducer" isn't good enough as it seems, it doesn't work on debian either
[07:26] <seb128> is Debian having the issue?
[07:26] <pitti> yes, they do
[07:26] <seb128> k
[07:26] <pitti> i. e. it's not one of our many dbus patches
[07:27] <pitti> so debian and rawhide have the same systemd, and almost the same dbus (I checked the  difference, it looks harmless)
[07:27] <pitti> we have quite an old polkit, but that's not the most likely culprit
[07:27] <pitti> i. e. I need to continue finding a better reproducer
[07:27] <seb128> right
[07:27] <seb128> pitti, good luck with that!
[07:29] <pitti> seb128: merci !
[07:29] <larsu> pitti: lol at your g+ post
[07:29] <didrocks> Really a hard issue… would have been better if debian didn't get it and we would, to find the culpurit easier
[07:30] <larsu> pitti: also, good morning and happy Friday!
[07:30] <pitti> hey larsu, Dir auch!
[07:30] <pitti> didrocks: yeah, so at this point I can't decide yet whether fedora is affected
[07:30] <pitti> I know mbiebl got the issue on sid+exp, but I haven't been able to reproduce it there yet
[07:30] <didrocks> yeah, I remember he told that the day after the fsckd backport :p
[08:16] <tsdgeos> guys, the time indicator is gone again
[08:16] <tsdgeos> last time it happened you told me not to manually start it
[08:16] <tsdgeos> so we could do some live debugging
[08:17] <tsdgeos> so here i am if anyone has time
[08:18] <larsu> this is for charles really, but he's probably not awake yet...
[08:19] <larsu> tsdgeos: is indicator-datetime-service running?
[08:19] <larsu> and does it respond to dbus?
[08:20] <tsdgeos> running i guess yes http://paste.ubuntu.com/10444330/
[08:20] <larsu> looks good. Can you paste the output of `gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.indicator.datetime --object-path /com/canonical/indicator/datetime --method org.gtk.Actions.DescribeAll` please
[08:21] <larsu> also `gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.indicator.datetime --object-path /com/canonical/indicator/datetime/desktop --method org.gtk.Menus.Start [0]`
[08:23] <tsdgeos> larsu: that looks bad
[08:23] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10444363/
[08:25] <larsu> tsdgeos: ah, so it lost the name for some reason and you can't dbus-activate it anymore (because tedg loves upstart)
[08:25] <larsu> tsdgeos: not sure what to do tbh
[08:26]  * larsu wonders why the process doesn't exit when it loses the name
[08:26] <tsdgeos> should it have an upstart log somewhere?
[08:26] <seb128> .cache/upstart/indicator-....
[08:26] <tsdgeos> yaeh
[08:26] <tsdgeos> nothing
[08:26] <larsu> tsdgeos: good idea, please paste that as well (though I have a feeling it won't help much)
[08:26] <tsdgeos> last .gz is from yesterda
[08:27] <tsdgeos> on shutdown time
[08:27] <larsu> if you kill the process, does it work?
[08:27] <larsu> upstart should respawn it...
[08:28] <tsdgeos> kill -9 ? -15 ?
[08:28] <larsu> doesn't matter
[08:29] <tsdgeos> yep it came back
[08:29] <larsu> head -> desk
[08:29] <larsu> this is _exactly_ why I tied lifecycle to dbus back then
[08:29] <larsu> tsdgeos: sorry I couldn't be of more help
[08:30] <tsdgeos> should i report a bug about it? or you think it's not worth?
[08:30] <larsu> ya please do
[08:30] <seb128> bug #1421919
[08:30] <seb128> tsdgeos, larsu, ^
[08:31] <larsu> ya
[08:31] <larsu> let's port indicators to dbus activation again
[08:31] <larsu> and this won't happen anymore
[08:31] <seb128> larsu, do you have any idea how we can end up in that situation?
[08:31] <seb128> larsu, well, it's not related to activation if the process is running?
[08:31] <larsu> seb128: I have an idea: (1) datetime loses the name, but doesn't exit
[08:32] <seb128> larsu, how can it lose the name?
[08:32] <larsu> (2) upstart doesn't notice because the process is still running, thus doesn't respawn it
[08:32] <larsu> seb128: I'm trying to find that out right now...
[08:33] <seb128> larsu, imho that's the real issue
[08:33] <seb128> larsu, if it was dbus activated, what would stop the process if it doesn't exit?
[08:33] <larsu> seb128: no, but it would spawn a new one
[08:33] <larsu> but yeah, still a bug
[08:34] <seb128> right
[08:34] <seb128> sounds like a workaround rather than a fix
[08:34] <larsu> at least not as visible *cough* *cough* :P
[08:34] <seb128> we don't want zombie processes around
[08:34] <larsu> we also want a clock around
[08:34] <seb128> right
[08:34] <seb128> so let's fix the real bug :-)
[08:39]  * larsu gets lots of warnings when running the cmake script
[08:40] <larsu> also, the build fails. Srsly?
[08:41] <larsu> ah, apparently it can't build in parallel
[09:01] <larsu> seb128: can't reproduce and the code looks to be doing the right thing ...
[09:01] <larsu> unless it's going into a deadlock of some kind
[09:01] <larsu> not sure if dbus would release the name in that case
[09:04] <seb128> larsu, we should have asked for a gdb bt before killing the process :-/
[09:04] <larsu> indeed
[09:04] <seb128> larsu, yeah, I can't reproduce either, but we got several reports in vivid so it's likely a real issue
[09:05] <Laney> hey ho
[09:06] <larsu> hey ho Laney!
[09:06] <didrocks> morning Laney
[09:07] <Laney> happy friday!
[09:07] <Laney> (/me checks it really is friday)
[09:07] <didrocks> it definitively is friday :)
[09:07] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:07] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:08] <seb128> is it friday? bah, too much to do for a friday!
[09:08]  * larsu can't check, debugging indicator-datetime
[09:08] <didrocks> ahah
[09:08] <Laney> just calculate it from the position of the sun
[09:09] <larsu> the what?
[09:10] <Laney> no no nothing, never mind
[09:10]  * Laney sweats
[09:10] <Laney> oh btw, resume failure this morning >:(
[09:16] <Laney> might go back to upstart to rule out systemd
[09:16] <Laney> good idea Laney, you do that
[09:16] <Laney> OK Laney, I will
[09:16] <seb128> Laney, stop talking to Laney
[09:17] <Laney> yeah, that guy sucks
[09:17] <seb128> indeed he does
[09:20] <larsu> oh wow
[09:20] <larsu> what's going on here?
[09:21] <didrocks> larsu: better to ignore for your own sanity :p
[09:38] <Laney> ah
[09:38] <Laney> it's like being back in your old armchair
[09:38] <seb128> lol
[10:32]  * didrocks tries to think of an elegant solution for the fsck reboot tests using unittests…
[10:32] <didrocks> maybe it won't fit in unit tests and needs a script which is branching depending on ADT_REBOOT_MARK
[10:33] <didrocks> pitti: thoughts? ^
[10:34] <pitti> didrocks: yeah, that's a classic integration test; for a unit test you'd have to mock everything else including the sockets
[10:34] <pitti> didrocks: systemd unit tests are mostly for algorithms and simple file handing
[10:34] <didrocks> pitti: I meant the "unittests" frameworks (to have the asserttrue and such)
[10:34] <pitti> an actual boot and bits talking together is better in QEMU
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: ah
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: well, the other autopkgtests do that all the time
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: it's only one reboot though
[10:35] <didrocks> to reboot under systemd
[10:35] <didrocks> here, it will be multiple ones, with different config each time
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: main() prepares stuff, calls autopkgtest-reboot, and after that start unittest.main()
[10:35] <didrocks> right
[10:36] <didrocks> but I mean each tests will need to reboot
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: e. g. debian/tests/boot-and-services
[10:36] <didrocks> and then check tests
[10:36] <didrocks> debian/tests/boot-and-services only reboots one if I'm correct
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: ah, you can't use unittest.main() then
[10:36] <didrocks> yeah
[10:36] <didrocks> or using a lot of skip unless()
[10:37] <didrocks> based on ADT_REBOOT_MARK
[10:37] <didrocks> but not really handy
[10:37] <pitti> didrocks: you could use unittest.TestLoader() to load a particular class (or even method) based on the marker
[10:37] <didrocks> could do that, maybe…
[10:37] <didrocks> pitti: how does autopkgtests btw knows that it didn't finish up with a test which rebooted?
[10:38] <didrocks> and should reexecute the same file?
[10:38] <pitti> didrocks: or you write it in shell or a simpler framework, like boot-smoke
[10:38] <pitti> didrocks: you don't call "reboot", you call /tmp/autopkgtest-reboot
[10:39] <didrocks> ah, so it puts a flags
[10:39] <pitti> that does the additional steps: save temp dir and artifacts, remember current test, reboot, restore artifacts/temp dir, resume
[10:39] <didrocks> which will tell to reexecute
[10:39] <didrocks> in addition to sett the MARK variable
[10:39] <pitti> yep
[10:39] <didrocks> ok, making sense :)
[10:39] <pitti> pure magic!
[10:39] <didrocks> hehe, nicely done :)
[10:39] <didrocks> so yeah, I guess I'll have to check the assertions myself
[10:39] <pitti> didrocks: BTW, I didn't mean to impose this on you, and even less so "do it now"
[10:39] <pitti> didrocks: it was more like loud thinking really
[10:40] <didrocks> pitti: no, but it was in my mind anyway, so thinking about it
[10:40] <didrocks> so no worry :)
[10:40] <pitti> didrocks: a simple smoke test whether it survives a reboot with fsck and verify that it run sounds like 20 lines of shell
[10:40] <pitti> didrocks: but it sounds like you are aiming way higher :)
[10:41] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I want a little bit more use case
[10:41] <didrocks> like fsck dying
[10:41] <didrocks> and the cancellation, if possible
[10:41] <didrocks> at least
[10:41] <didrocks> oh, also, rebooting plymouth
[10:41] <pitti> didrocks: next station is coming up, will be offline for some 30 mins
[10:41] <didrocks> pitti: no worry, I'm just thinking about it while doing other things ;)
[10:42] <pitti> today's train ride is a bit of a challenge, train derailled an hour ago (not mine)
[10:42] <didrocks> argh, so rerouted?
[11:26] <pitti> didrocks: yeah, quite a bit; we'll probably arrive an hour late or so, no big deal
[12:00] <Laney> larsu: is bug #1426163 what you've been working on?
[12:02] <larsu> Laney: I don't understand that bug - LIM is clearly enabled in that screenshot..
[12:02] <Laney> oh I didn't see the first one
[12:02] <Laney> what's going on with his terminal there?
[12:03] <larsu> that's LIM...
[12:03] <Laney> not in the terminal it isn't
[12:04] <larsu> ok, step back. Which screenshot are we talking about?
[12:04] <Laney> that's "no Ubuntu crap"
[12:04] <Laney> in comment #1
[12:04] <larsu> that's LIM
[12:04] <Laney> it's underneath the title bar ...
[12:04] <larsu> menu is in the title basr
[12:05] <larsu> oh, I should actually look at comment #1
[12:05] <larsu> yes, that's ubuntu crap
[12:05] <larsu> my patches fix that
[12:05] <larsu> also they'll hide the "Show Menubar" option
[12:05] <larsu> because that doesn't make any sense on unity
[12:05] <larsu> all of this based on the Gtk/ShellShowsMenubar xsetting
[12:05] <Laney> and in comment #2 he has the app menu
[12:06] <Laney> I guess that goes away too
[12:06] <larsu> right, that's a high prio bug that Trevinho is working on
[12:06] <Laney> anyway, just wanted to check if this was the same bug
[12:06] <larsu> I guess something related to his recent i-appmenu changes
[12:06] <larsu> no, it's a different one
[12:06] <larsu> the "duplicate menus" part is what I'm working on
[12:06] <Laney> did you see that rishi is working on making vte use a proper scrolled window?
[12:07] <larsu> ya, pretty neat
[12:07] <Laney> happy days
[12:07] <larsu> definitely
[12:07] <Laney> on menus, lemme know when they approve your patches and we should be able to take them
[12:08] <larsu> will do
[12:08] <larsu> I havent't submitted them yet, but will today
[12:08] <larsu> (still got some minor bugs)
[12:08] <Laney> nod
[12:10] <Laney> man it's looking nice outside
[12:10] <Laney> just 5°c more or so and i'll be able to sit out to have lunch
[12:10] <Laney> come on the weather, you can do it
[12:13] <didrocks> pitti: what do you think about something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10447566/
[12:13] <didrocks> pitti: that would enable having the test preparation and then, the after reboot check in the same unittest function
[12:14] <didrocks> (it's just a draft, the tests would be a little bit different, but there are those 2 phases)
[12:16] <pitti> ADT_REBOOT_MARK contains the test name to continue end in the result
[12:16] <pitti> # mode
[12:16] <pitti> didrocks: ^ I'm afraid I need some interpretation here, I don't understand that
[12:17] <didrocks> oupsss, I didn't rewrote it after changing the semantic
[12:17] <didrocks> so, basically, this would support tests with or without reboot
[12:17] <didrocks> hence the loop on remaining_tests
[12:17] <didrocks> remaining_tests contains in sorted order, all "test_" functions from the test class
[12:18] <didrocks> if a test needs a reboot before ending
[12:18] <didrocks> it will called reboot(), which marks ADT_REBOOT_MARK=<current_test_name>:<global_current_return_code>
[12:18] <pitti> didrocks: ah, you don't want to immediately exit after a failure?
[12:18] <didrocks> then, we reboot
[12:18] <didrocks> no, I want the other tests to restarts
[12:18] <didrocks> continue*
[12:19] <pitti> didrocks: please drop the apt-get install systemd-sysv, just make that a Depends:
[12:19] <didrocks> and so, then remaining_tests tuple restarts at current_test_name
[12:19] <pitti> (this works now in vivid)
[12:19] <didrocks> oh sure, so no need for the first reboot :)
[12:20] <didrocks> and so, we store the global return code and exit if needed
[12:20] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you still need to actually boot with systemd, you can just skip the manual pkg install
[12:20] <pitti> didrocks: ack
[12:20] <didrocks> pitti: ah ok, the test bed isn't reboot after installing the packages
[12:20] <pitti> didrocks: getAllTests() looks hairy, but I don't know unittests.TestLoader() enough whether it can introspect in a nicer way
[12:20] <pitti> didrocks: so, this looks fine to me
[12:21] <didrocks> pitti: I didn't find a way to filter on what I wanted
[12:21] <pitti> didrocks: shouldn't you also test that systemd-fsckd actually ran, not only that it is inactive?
[12:21] <didrocks> the nice thing in that approach is that we can mix tests that needs to reboot the testbed and test that doesn't need it
[12:21] <didrocks> pitti: that part was just for the example, I didn't work on the tests themselves yet
[12:21] <pitti> ah
[12:22] <didrocks> it was more on the "mixing tests that needs reboot and others" mechanism
[12:22]  * didrocks will rename "result_check" to "after_reboot"
[12:22] <didrocks> that will make more sense
[12:22] <pitti> didrocks: right; AFAIK that's the first multi-reboot unittest, nice to have a template now!
[12:22]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[12:22]  * didrocks hugs pitti back
[12:23] <didrocks> putting better comments now :)
[12:54] <flexiondotorg> Laney, you mentioned you'd sponsor GTK fixes for Precise, Trusty and Utopic?
[12:54] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-control-center/+bug/1351890/comments/14
[12:54] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-control-center/+bug/1351890/comments/15
[12:54] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-control-center/+bug/1351890/comments/16
[12:55] <flexiondotorg> debdiffs attached for all 3 version from the MATE dev who prepared the original GTK2 upstream patch.
[12:55] <Laney> ok, thanks
[12:56] <seb128> I wouldn't bother backporting to precise, it's risky for little benefit
[12:56] <seb128> trusty/utopic should be useful though
[12:56] <Laney> you take care of it if you want
[12:57] <seb128> me? no thanks
[12:57] <seb128> just keep it in the sponsoring queue for next sponsor otherwise
[12:58] <Laney> no I'm happy to look, just sounded like you had formulated some opinions already
[13:00] <seb128> well, I didn't even look at those, just commenting on the usefulness to backport desktop work to precise
[13:00] <seb128> it's not even the current LTS
[13:05] <flexiondotorg> seb128, Isn't it support until 2017 though?
[13:06] <seb128> flexiondotorg, right, but support doesn't mean backporting every single bugfix which happened since 2012
[13:06] <seb128> it means dealing with security issues mostly, and backporting important fixes when the investiment is worth the benefit
[13:46] <didrocks> pitti: ah, plymouth doesn't start because the kernel parameter doesn't contain "splash"
[13:47] <didrocks> pitti: should I duplicate the service? (I already have to do that for systemd-fsck-root because of rw mode from the start) or is there a way to change those in autopkgtest config?
[13:53] <pitti> didrocks: you can change the grub config in the test itself :)
[13:55] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, not stupid ;)
[13:55]  * didrocks does
[13:55] <didrocks> but it seems it's going to stop raining for a bit, going for a run then :)
[13:55] <didrocks> thanks pitti!
[13:56] <pitti> didrocks: enjoy!
[13:56] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[13:56] <Laney> ...
[13:57] <Laney> can someone try launching terminator?
[14:04] <pitti> didrocks: that's not super-trivial, though; e. g. adt-setup-vm changes the grub config in /etc/default/grub.d/90-autopkgtest.cfg to enable serial console
[14:05] <pitti> Laney: wasn't he supposed to come in 2029 only?
[14:05] <pitti> (SCNR -- TGIF!
[14:05] <Laney> hah
[14:26] <cyphermox> Laney: what's wrong with terminator?
[14:29] <ogra_> cyphermox, it kills people
[14:29] <cyphermox> you just need to be on it's good side
[14:29] <ogra_> ha
[14:30] <davmor2> ogra_: nothing wrong with the terminator it's a great piece of music
[14:34] <dednick> can anyone help? I've just done an upgrade and installed some other packages and now when i restart laptop I can't just default boot option. Only thing that works is going into grub and selecting "$KERNELVERSION (systemd)".
[14:34] <dednick> just stalls on purple screen and can't get to vt either.
[14:35] <dednick> tty i mean
[14:35] <cyphermox> dednick: is that litterally how it's shown, not an actual kernel version?
[14:35] <dednick> cyphermox: no. it's the version
[14:36] <cyphermox> ok
[14:36] <dednick> 3.18.0-13-generic
[14:37] <cyphermox> dednick: try to remove quiet splash from the command-line so you can see whether it's booting anything
[14:40] <dednick> cyphermox: can't remove it. can't do anything.
[14:41] <cyphermox> dednick: I meant in grub
[14:42] <dednick> cyphermox: ah. i'll try. bbiab
[14:51] <dednick> cyphermox: no difference. doesnt seem to do anything when i get it to boot with systemd either.
[14:51] <dednick> ie. no boot log
[14:56] <cyphermox> not even 'starting version ' ?
[14:56] <dednick> nope. hang on. i'm trying again
[14:59] <dednick> cyphermox: hm. that's weird. i removed plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text and it worked.
[14:59] <dednick> cyphermox: went to terminal though. had to start lightdm manually :/
[15:02] <cyphermox> I'm not sure I follow, but maybe if you file a bug and put as much relevant information as you can (what pacakges you removed, maybe /var/log/apt/term.log, and some details about exactly what the grub menu looks like?
[15:02] <cyphermox> file it against plymouth for now
[15:04] <cyphermox> unless you did your updates very much not long ago and the systemd update from ~2 hours ago is breaking things...
[15:04] <cyphermox> which I will see soon because I need to reboot.
[15:04] <dednick> cyphermox: hm. well i did update about 2h ago
[15:07] <Laney> cyphermox: did you try and run it?
[15:09] <Laney> TypeError: type 'gio.MemoryOutputStream' is not dynamically allocated but its base type '__main__.GPollableOutputStream' is dynamically allocated
[15:09] <Laney> pythonnnnnnnnnnnnn
[15:10] <cyphermox> I see
[15:10] <cyphermox> you broke my terminal!
[15:10] <cyphermox> is that python or is that gobject-introspection of some sort?
[15:11] <Laney> it's using the old static bindings
[15:11] <Laney> http://bugs.python.org/issue22079 it is this change in python
[15:11] <dednick> hm. i did upgrade but i didnt get the new systemd.
[15:13] <cyphermox> Laney: yeah
[15:13] <cyphermox> where did you report it? can I go +1?
[15:14] <Laney> i just saw http://bugs.python.org/issue22079
[15:14] <Laney> erm
[15:14] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bleachbit/+bug/1426218
[15:15] <cyphermox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/terminator/+bug/1426294
[15:15] <Laney> yes a few apps have it reported
[15:16] <dednick> cyphermox: getting this in dmeg log. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10450097/
[15:16] <attente_> any known workaround?
[15:16] <dednick> *dmes
[15:16] <dednick> bah
[15:16] <dednick> dmesg
[15:17] <cyphermox> heh
[15:19] <cyphermox> dednick: have you got a crash file in /var/crash then?
[15:25] <dednick> cyphermox: it's plymouthd that's crashing. the bridge just exits if it can't find it. got a crash dump for it; looking now
[15:32] <didrocks> pitti: well, I'll ship a 91- then! (but thanks for the head's up :))
[15:35] <Sweet5hark1> one hour in and libreoffice on ppc64el and arm64 is still building. lets see how far it gets ...
[15:35] <charles> tsdgeos, reading through scrollback now, do you still have the nonresponsive datetime session available?
[15:36] <charles> larsu, thanks for doing some initial triage on this
[15:37] <tsdgeos> charles: no, i killed it and got a working one, sorry
[15:37] <charles> tsdgeos, ack
[15:37] <charles> tsdgeos, datetime should exit when it loses the busname for whatever reason, and then upstart should restart it as per tedg's upstart work. Not sure why that's not happening here
[15:38] <charles> tsdgeos, possibly datetime is deadlocked somewhere s.t. it won't reach the exit() call
[15:38] <tsdgeos> i'll try to gdb it next time
[15:38] <tsdgeos> see if i can get a backtrace
[15:38] <charles> ack, that would be the next step
[15:38] <charles> thanks!
[15:39] <charles> tsdgeos, did it happen on boot, or later?
[15:39] <tsdgeos> charles: boot
[15:39] <charles> k
[15:39] <charles> that matches the other reports I've seen
[15:39] <charles> I'd love to get my hands on a live session of this :-)
[15:40] <charles> ah I see larsu said more or less the same thing in-ticke t:)
[15:41] <charles> hm
[15:42] <charles> larsu, is there a way to see if datetime actually still owns the name?
[15:42] <tedg> charles, I'm curious if it's not getting the name the first time.
[15:42] <charles> if it's deadlocked somewhere, it may still own the name but still not be responding
[15:42] <tedg> charles, Are you setting allow replacement?
[15:43] <charles> tedg, yes
[15:44] <tedg> charles, Perhaps it's getting replaced by something? Not sure why that'd be, but there's no reason to allow it.
[15:44] <charles> tedg, the main action is in a normal g_bus_own_name() call, where on_bus_acquired exports the menus/actions and name_lost() calls a core::Signal that should break out of main()'s g_main_loop_run()
[15:45] <charles> tedg, so name_lost_handler() would be called if either it coudln't get the bus, or it could get the bus but not name ownership, and the service would exit
[15:46] <tedg> Hmm, trying to brainstorm ideas.
[15:46] <charles> tedg, so I don't know what the actual problem is, but it's probably not failure to get bus
[15:46] <tedg> charles, Could it be not getting dbus at all?
[15:46] <cyphermox> dednick: thanks
[15:46] <tedg> i.e. it's still waiting.
[15:48] <tedg> Wow, all of a sudden really pretty snow.
[15:48] <cyphermox> tedg: what's that?
[15:48] <cyphermox> *pretty* snow?
[15:49] <tedg> cyphermox, It's like the first snow of the season for you :-)
[15:49] <cyphermox> heheh
[15:49] <cyphermox> after a few days the words change
[15:49] <tedg> Yeah, this will melt by Sunday
[15:49] <cyphermox> to something I won't repeat because I'm polite ;)
[15:56] <charles> tedg, according to g_bus_own_name()'s docs, we're "guaranteed" that name_lost_handler will be called if either we can't get the bus or can't get the name
[15:56] <charles> so again, I don't think that's the problem unless it's a bug in gio
[15:56] <charles> which is possible
[15:57] <charles> but I think the odds are higher the culprit's in datetime
[16:05] <tedg> charles, Yeah, just a weird state as it seems to be waiting for something. But it doesn't have the name.
[16:05] <tedg> I don't think that it lost it, as that case seems pretty clear, I think it must have never gotten it.
[16:09] <charles> tedg, is there a cli way to see what process owns a name?
[16:10] <charles> I mean, obviously you can ping the name to see if you get anything back, but outside of that
[16:13] <tedg> charles, You can query the server
[16:14] <tedg> charles, gdbus call --session --dest org.freedesktop.DBus --object-path / --method org.freedesktop.DBus.GetNameOwner com.canonical.indicator.datetime
[16:14] <charles> tedg, thanks
[16:15]  * charles annotates 1425297 with a request for that info
[16:20] <tedg> cyphermox, Snow stopped. Have to wait for next year. ;-)
[16:20] <tedg> Actually a chance of more tonight, we'll see.
[16:20] <cyphermox> tedg: ;)
[17:58] <Laney> I uploaded the g-t wrapper script to the ppa, maybe some people can give it a go
[17:58] <Laney> hey, everybody's gone!
[18:06] <Laney> happy weekend!
[20:07] <larsu> charles: it doesn't own the name anymore (we're getting a NoSuchName error)
[20:08] <larsu> charles: and I couldn't bring it into a state where it doesn't own the name but is still running
[20:08] <larsu> charles: I think the name-owning logic is sound - it's probably deadlocking or spinning in another thread
[20:09] <charles> larsu, does gdb give us anything interesting?
[20:10] <charles> larsu, are you saying you're seeing this right now?
[20:10] <larsu> charles: I haven't gotten into that state myself, unfortunately
[20:10] <charles> ok
[20:11] <charles> the thing is, the path from g_bus_own_name()'s name-lost callback to main returning is pretty short
[20:12] <charles> I don't see many opportunities to deadlock there, I suspect it's happening elsewhere in the code
[20:16] <larsu> ya...
[20:16]  * larsu is unsure as well