[00:11] <jtechidna> Riddell: I haz bad connection, but I do need to give you a diff for adept that updates the version number in the about data
[00:15] <Riddell> jtechidna: ok
[00:16] <Riddell> rgreening: yes it got in
[00:16] <jtechidna> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58581/
[00:16] <Riddell> a|wen: I didn't do anything to kdeartwork
[00:17] <rgreening> Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee! python plasma
[00:17] <a|wen> Riddell: okay ... i suppose you and ScottK will agree on whether "demote and copy" is the solution
[00:18] <Riddell> I don't think it can be demoted in a released version
[00:18] <Riddell> jtechidna: uploaded
[00:19] <supertones> rgreening: as a package in kubuntu?
[00:19] <rgreening> yeah, python-plasma
[00:20] <supertones> thanks
[00:20] <rgreening> part of kdebase-workspace.
[00:20] <rgreening> np.. I wanted it for myself.
[00:20] <rgreening> so, now to try and write some stuff in it...
[00:20] <supertones> i see examples :)
[00:21] <rgreening> don't coun't on the example working correctly. THe backport of the examples may not be 100% working.
[00:22] <rgreening> I got the pytime plasma data engine to run, but not the clock itself
[00:22] <supertones> ok
[00:22] <rgreening> I have to look at that some more. I know the library itself works, but I suspect some of the features in the examples only exist in 4.2
[00:22] <Riddell> ScottK: kdvi accepted
[00:22] <a|wen> Riddell: okay ... that pretty much limits the options to do nothing
[00:22] <rgreening> have fun.
[00:22] <supertones> that would make sense
[00:22]  * Riddell snoozes
[00:23] <apachelogger> rgreening: why did you backport the examples then? :P
[00:23] <apachelogger> that is only causing bug reports
[00:23] <apachelogger> I tell you
[00:23] <apachelogger> BUG REPORTS
[00:23] <supertones> lol
[00:23] <rgreening> apachelogger: lol... send them my way
[00:23]  * apachelogger doesn't feel like reading them
[00:23] <apachelogger> besides
[00:24] <rgreening> I'll deal with them and hopefully get some better examples in there.
[00:24] <apachelogger> rgreening: just drop it
[00:24] <apachelogger> bad enough that the code comes from trunk and got no proper QA yet :S
[00:24] <rgreening> Actually, it could just be my system. Perhaps someone else could test
[00:25]  * apachelogger offers babpipes for a test
[00:25] <apachelogger> *bagpipes even
[00:26] <rgreening> supertones, can you install the python-plasma-examples package and try running the python clock ?
[00:26] <supertones> sure gimme a sec
[00:26] <supertones> where are these located?
[00:27] <rgreening> after installed, you should just be able ot add widget
[00:27] <apachelogger> hm
[00:27] <rgreening> you may need to restart plasma or re-login
[00:27] <supertones> ahh
[00:27] <apachelogger> I think I am going to backport 4.1.3-svn to 4.1.2 :P
[00:28] <rgreening> apachelogger: lol
[00:28] <apachelogger> though
[00:28] <apachelogger> no, bad idea
[00:28] <apachelogger> I think I am going to backport 4.9.4 to 4.1.2 :P
[00:28] <apachelogger> that way I can take care of all reports some user might want to create
[00:29] <apachelogger> means at least half a year no bug triage
[00:29] <rgreening> someone took a drink from the sarcasm pool
[00:29] <rgreening> :)
[00:29] <apachelogger> that's the bagpipey music
[00:29] <rgreening> hehe
[00:29] <apachelogger> then again, backports really have no point anyway
[00:30] <apachelogger> distribution work itself has no point
[00:30] <rgreening> lol... time to change the music to something upbeat.. quick
[00:30] <apachelogger> hippie music!
[00:31] <apachelogger> hm, that reminds me
[00:33] <apachelogger> ~np
[00:33] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Captain Hampton and the Midget Pirates!" by The Aquabats [The Fury of the Aquabats, 1997]
[00:33] <apachelogger> \o/
[00:33] <apachelogger> still, we need some alternative work ... like becoming the developer team which gets fastest drunk or something
[00:35] <supertones> i might just be an epic failure but i can't find python-plasma anymore and trying to upgrade kdebase-workspace-data wants to remove a lot of good kde packages esp all my extra plasmoids
[00:35] <apachelogger> stupid plasmoids
[00:36] <supertones> thank god apt held kdebase-workspace-data back
[00:39] <apachelogger> stupid apt
[00:39] <apachelogger> hm
[00:39] <apachelogger> apparently I am grumpy
[00:39]  * apachelogger goes fixx0ring his explodered systemsettings
[00:43] <rgreening> lol. possibly the archive is not fully synced yet
[00:43] <rgreening> apachelogger: cheer up now dammit! heheh
[00:44] <apachelogger> hang on
[00:44] <apachelogger> ~np
[00:44] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Super Orgy Porno Party" by The Planet Smashers [Life of the Party, 1999]
[00:44]  * apachelogger runs
[00:45]  * supertones wonders how #kubuntu-kde4 became #kubuntu-devel
[00:47] <apachelogger> inter-channel exchange program, makes irc live a tick more fun
[00:48]  * a|wen wonders if it is a bad sign if he stille experiences bug 254476 with version 4:4.1.2-0ubuntu3 of the package
[00:49] <apachelogger> ~join #kubuntu-kde4
[00:51] <a|wen> I'm sure I've seen that almost the same backtrace when fixing kde-guidance bugs for hardy ... Riddell: is there time to get this fixed; or is it to late? ^^^
[01:19] <a|wen> it is no fun playing with intrepid packages on hardy :( ... what to do when debuild fails due to a missing /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde4.mk ; can you force it to just build the package without trying to mess with running things from debian/rules ?
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> a|wen: you need a debian/cdbs folder from hardy
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> and a debian/rules file that includes the proper cdbs
[01:22] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: i'm just trying to create a debdiff to a package in intrepid ... but the problem is that i'm on a hardy machine (but shouldn't mess with things inside the package due to this i suppose)
[01:36] <a|wen> Riddell or ScottK: couldn't create a debdiff (debuild failing as i'm on hardy), but here is a manual diff http://awen.dk/packages/guidance-power-manager_4:4.1.2-0ubuntu4.manualdiff ... it really fixes bug 254476 (it's a port of kubuntu_34_kde-powermanager_no_lid_special_behaviour_disable.patch in kde-guidance, also see the changelog entry in the manualdiff)
[01:43] <a|wen> ScottK: looks like your patch added to g-p-m yesterday fixes some of the duplicate bugs instead, eg. 282527
[02:57] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: THe problem in the example is the dataEngine. I commented it out and it no longer cores out. So, I'll have it soon :0
[02:57] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> nice
[03:12] <ScottK> a|wen: Looks sane.  Are you saying I didn't fix the bug I said I fixed?
[03:22] <ScottK> Riddell: I know when there was a bug in -backports and some stuff needed to be moved from Main to Universe in backports and (I think it was slangasek) it was moved.  Maybe you can Main -> Universe in backports and then copy to -updates.
[03:29] <ScottK> a|wen: Sure enough I see what you mean.
[03:49] <ScottK> a|wen: Guidance uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.
[04:03] <JontheEchidna> G'nite, be back wednesday.
[04:06] <NCommander> ScottK, What about copying what in backports?
[04:06]  * NCommander knows things about this subject
[04:14] <ScottK> NCommander: Riddell pocket copied KDE 3.5.10 into hardy-updates today.  The problem is kdeartwork picked up a new dependency and its' in Universe.
[04:14] <ScottK> So it's either leave the new kdeartwork in backports or figure some way to get the into Universe in -updates.
[04:16] <ScottK> a|wen: Guidance is accepted.
[04:37] <NCommander> ScottK, you can change the promotion level of a package in a pocket
[04:37] <NCommander> ScottK, we confirmed that works on dogfood
[04:38] <NCommander> ScottK, just promote updates and backports
[04:38] <ScottK> We need to demote, not promote.
[04:42] <NCommander> Wait, demote?
[04:42] <NCommander> That also works
[04:42] <NCommander> But you might break things if anything in main depends
[05:44] <fabrice_sp> Hi. Fyi, I've been able to restore UI of TaskJuggler (Bug #284629), using the Fedora patch. I've just suscribed Sponsors for universe
[10:42] <supert0nes> python clock does not work for me either might be a good idea to remove python-plasma-examples
[10:45] <Riddell> supert0nes: poke rgreening about that when he appears
[10:56] <supert0nes> sounds good
[11:02] <davmor2> Riddell: \o/ Yay
[11:04] <davmor2> Riddell: Not so sure about the bid DRAFT as a watermark in the khelpcenter ;)
[11:05] <Riddell> davmor2: you think that makes it look unfinished?
[11:06] <Riddell> nixternal: how do we get rid of that?
[11:06] <davmor2> Riddell: It looks a little less polished that maybe it could ;)
[11:07] <davmor2> Riddell: same on Kubuntu System Doc
[11:08] <a|wen> morning everyone
[11:08] <davmor2> the longer titles cut through the KDE logo too
[11:09] <davmor2> like KDE The Application Development Framework
[11:11] <a|wen> ScottK: sorry for questioning your g-p-m fix :) ... couldn't help fixing it, as i in some way already had the patch
[11:11] <davmor2> Riddell: Akregator is missing docs
[11:11] <davmor2> Kmail ditto
[11:12] <davmor2> Konversation ditto
[11:12] <davmor2> Ktorrent ditto
[11:13] <davmor2> amarok and k3b ditto
[11:13] <davmor2> kaddressbook kontact and korganiser too
[11:14] <Riddell> kde 3 apps will be missing them
[11:14] <Riddell> I guess that's a problem with kdepim then
[11:14] <davmor2> sound
[11:15] <davmor2> keyboard layout
[11:15] <davmor2> solid
[11:15] <davmor2> mouse
[11:16] <davmor2> window behaviour
[11:16] <davmor2> desktop eefects
[11:16] <davmor2> s/eefects/effects
[11:17] <davmor2> most of the rest seems okay
[11:19] <davmor2> Riddell: do you want me to add a bug for it?
[11:19] <Riddell> davmor2: I think there's alreaady  "no KDE 3 docs bug" on khelpcenter but add one if there isn't
[11:20] <Riddell> and add one with your list of missing docs indeed
[11:20] <davmor2> some of them aren't kde3
[11:21] <Riddell> right, so make a new bug to list those
[11:21] <Riddell> or a bug for "no kdepim docs" and one for the system settings docs
[11:22] <davmor2> Riddell: How about a generic missing docs from khelpcenter and the list
[11:22] <Riddell> davmor2: go for it
[11:22] <davmor2> np's
[11:22] <davmor2> also I'm getting the incomplete Language Support again :(
[11:23] <Riddell> davmor2: but this time it should do something if you run it
[11:24] <davmor2> Riddell: Yeap starts up language installer and English is greyed out :)
[11:25] <davmor2> hitting install window closes and no more lightbulb :)
[11:30] <Riddell> davmor2: hmm, no initial dialogue to install the missing bits for you?
[11:32] <davmor2> Riddell: Yes it opens Language Installer.  Then I hit install on Language Installer because English is greyed out so it just closes the window.  So no idea what it did if anything.
[11:33] <Riddell> davmor2: nothing, it would be obvious if it did something
[11:33] <Riddell> davmor2: do you have language-pack-gnome-en-base installed?
[11:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: your skepticism loses, we are clean of libs gtk gnome and bonobo and 7 MB more space on the CDs http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/kubuntu.intrepid/desktop
[11:34] <smarter> cool :)
[11:37] <seaLne> bah rsibreak is still buggy :(
[11:37] <davmor2> Riddell: nope
[11:40] <davmor2> Riddell: do you want the bug tagging to khelpcenter or to kubuntu docs?
[11:40] <Riddell> davmor2: khelpcenter
[11:40] <davmor2> np@s
[11:48] <davmor2> Riddell: should Konqueror still include all the file management info?
[11:49] <Riddell> davmor2: how do you mean?
[11:49] <Riddell> it's able to browse files if you put a path in the address bar
[11:51] <davmor2> Riddell: Dolphin handles file management now so should you include all the file management section in Konqueror still
[11:51] <Riddell> davmor2: what do you mean by file management section?
[11:51] <Riddell> we still want konqueror to do file management, lots of people still use it for that
[11:52] <davmor2> Riddell: right that's okay then It just threw me seeing it there that was all :)
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: talking about that, we should consider adding something in the component chooser to help people switching easilly between dolphin and konqueror
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: changing inode-directory mimetype preferences sounds a bit funky imho :)
[11:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: yep
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: maybe we can just add that to the uds pipe, no ?
[12:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: want to start a wiki page with UDS topics ?
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: this WE, for sure :)
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: as said, I have lots of ideas for the UDS :)
[12:00] <Riddell> KubuntuUDSJaunty or something
[12:00] <Tonio_> yep, will do that this WE
[12:00] <Tonio_> probably tomorrow
[12:01] <Tonio_> atm, I'm just backporting vlc 0.9 to hardy.... hard job
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: also, would you be interested in a kubufox package ?
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm currently testing a few settings for firefox/kde integration and I think there is something to be done there
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: lots of our users install firefox, and honnestly, firefox is just UGLY on kubuntu...
[12:03] <Tonio_> we also miss the apt:/ protocol...
[12:03] <Tonio_> can't wait to start jaunty to be honnest :)
[12:04] <hunger> Tonio_: I'd like to see up to date debs of all the dev-stuff I need (git, cmake, svn). Ubuntu seems to not update those regularly:-(
[12:06]  * JontheEchidna is up before he leaves
[12:07] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: hope you can handle all the bugs without me :P
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I counter your Konsole Kolor skeme with this: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=70575&file1=70575-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=Tango+Konsole
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> :P
[12:12] <JontheEchidna> (yours it better, but this should hit the weak point for massive damage!)
[12:15] <davmor2> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/284915
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> be back wednesday!
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> btw, khelpcenter is kdebase-runtime iirc ;-)
[12:16] <davmor2> all in categories
[12:16] <JontheEchidna> unless it's a per-app problem :P
[12:17] <davmor2> JontheEchidna: clever LP changed it all by itself ;)
[12:18] <Tonio_> hunger: hum true that.... that probably explains within the server/client orientation
[12:19] <Tonio_> hunger: but that can be boring especially on the git side, since the software evolves very, very quickly
[12:19] <Tonio_> hunger: are there ubuntu stuff in it, or is that mostly standard debian sync ?
[12:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Mostly debian sync, but since debian is frozen at this time (IIRC) they have outdated stuff, too.
[12:25] <hunger> Currently I am grabbing the sources and package the stuff myself.
[12:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, we did have a FirefoxKDEIntegration spec at last UDS, it never happened though
[12:36] <Riddell> a|wen: if you have patches to guidance-p-m do poke me too so I can put them in svn
[12:41] <a|wen> Riddell: I'll do that ... i suppose you've already been grapped 03-no-lid-special-behaviour-disable.diff from the g-p-m source?
[12:42] <Riddell> about to
[12:42] <a|wen> hunger: testing is frozen ... but as we sync from unstable that shouldn't have an effect (unstable is never frozen IIRC)
[12:44] <a|wen> Riddell: what about the "DRAFT" watermark on the About Kubuntu section in khelpcenter ... is that supposed to still be there at this point?
[13:03] <Riddell> a|wen: no, I should look into how to get rid of that
[13:04] <ScottK> a|wen: Nothing to be sorry for.  I'm very glad you noticed and took care of it.
[13:05] <a|wen> Riddell: cool ... just wanted to be sure it was on a todo somewhere
[13:05] <ScottK> Riddell: Do I need to mention my gpm patches too or did you get those already?
[13:06] <Riddell> ScottK: I think I got them, will check
[13:07] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you see the discussion that NCommander and I had last night about promotion/demotion?  I think it's better to have kdeartwork in Universe -updates than Main -backports, but perhaps more trouble than it's worth.
[13:10] <Riddell> ScottK: no, but I don't think we can demote something in a released version
[13:20] <NCommander> Riddell, you can demote within a pocket
[13:21] <NCommander> Riddell, I was able to test this with some assistance on dogfood
[13:22] <exobuzz> intrepid is due out real soon. Im very worried that my bug (279409) won't be fixed in time, and I think it is rather important. is this still a known issue with knetworkmanager ? (static/fixed ips not working)
[13:24] <Riddell> seaLne: what doesn't work about rsibreak?
[13:24] <Riddell> NCommander: hrm, I'd still be scared to
[13:25] <NCommander> Riddell, we actually tried it
[13:25] <NCommander> Riddell, we didn't break the world
[13:25] <seaLne> Riddell: it dosen't stop you after the right amount of activity, the locking of screen never goes away and less importantly only blocks one head
[13:28] <Riddell> exobuzz: I can confirm the problem
[13:28] <Riddell> but there's no real NM experience in kubuntu I'm afraid to fix it
[13:28] <exobuzz> oh :(
[13:29] <seaLne> wasn't will stephenson working on knm?
[13:29] <exobuzz> perhaps just better to perhaps remove it from the gui temporarily, and tell people to use network/interfaces for fixed ips ? (if it can't be fixed for release)
[13:29] <Riddell> seaLne: no, he does the plasmoid, different person does kde 3 knetworkmanager and he's mostly busy
[13:30] <seaLne> ah
[13:32] <Riddell> seaLne: looking at planetkde today toma says rsibreak is in maintainance until a developer comes along
[13:32] <seaLne> yeah thats what made me notice the beta4
[14:23] <Riddell> ScottK: do we want kmobiletools in main?  I'd have thought universe since upstream dropped it
[14:23] <ScottK> Riddell: No, we want it demoted.
[14:24] <ScottK> I thought we'd done that already ...
[14:24] <Riddell> down it goes
[14:25] <ScottK> Anyone hear any screaming since 3.5.10 got into hardy-updates?
[14:25] <Tm_T> ScottK: hmm not me
[14:25] <ScottK> Riddell: I think 3.5.10 in the main repo merits an announcement on kubuntu.org.
[14:25] <Tm_T> ScottK: but also there were some real nice improvements to Kicker right after that release so... (:)
[14:26] <Riddell> ScottK: I agree, want to do that or shall I?
[14:26] <ScottK> Riddell: I've got $WORK I'm supposed to be doing right now, so I'd appreciate it if you would do it.
[14:26] <Riddell> ScottK: stop skiving! :)
[14:26] <ScottK> Tm_T: Well we have a process now, so if 3.5.11 comes out we'll know what to do.
[14:32] <a|wen> Tm_T: i think we've got the most important kicker fixes from post 3.5.10 included as patches in our packages
[14:42] <Tm_T> a|wen: sounds good then (:)
[14:48] <nixternal> Riddell: you need to go through the .xml markup and change the status to 'final'
[14:49] <Riddell> nixternal: I committed a change, which seemed to work
[15:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 284985 - what to do? remove kaffeine and change Amarok to "Amarok 2 (amarok-kde4)" or remove both, considering we don't have amarok-kde4 in the repos anyway
[15:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: it doesn't work with amarok 1?
[15:16] <apachelogger> no
[15:17] <ScottK> apachelogger: You don't mean remove kaffeine from the archive do you?
[15:17] <apachelogger> only supports dbus
[15:17] <apachelogger> ScottK: no, from the dialog ;-)
[15:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: doesn't seem a very useful plugin for us then unfortunately
[15:17] <ScottK> OK.
[15:17]  * ScottK relaxes
[15:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, there is still juk ;-)
[15:18]  * apachelogger would just remove Kaffeine and change Amarok to Amarok 2
[15:18] <apachelogger> that way the bug is fixed and users who use Amarok 2 can still use the plugin
[15:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: go for it
[15:20] <apachelogger> ok
[15:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: uploaded
[15:34] <nixternal> apachelogger: I will be at the meeting today...like in 3.5 hours right?
[15:34] <nixternal> I am working from home today
[15:35] <nixternal> +1<PHONE_NUMBER>
[15:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: accepted
[15:35] <nixternal> apachelogger: ^^ now you have it :P
[15:39] <a|wen> nixternal: it's in 3:20 from now, so yes
[15:40] <apachelogger> nixternal: hehe, thx :P
[15:45] <Riddell> nixternal: are you planning any sort of announcement?  I mind you came up with one at the last minute last time
[15:45] <Riddell> release announcement I mean
[15:45] <nixternal> how much time do I have?
[15:46] <nixternal> hehe
[15:46] <Riddell> nixternal: that is another way of putting the question
[15:46] <nixternal> lol
[15:46] <nixternal> ok, when is release?
[15:46] <Riddell> nixternal: until the 29th
[15:46] <nixternal> oh
[15:46] <Riddell> release is 30th
[15:46] <nixternal> ya, I can do that again
[15:46] <nixternal> I thought you needed it like right now
[15:46] <Riddell> no, we're not releasing quite yet fortunately
[15:47] <nixternal> because right now, I am heading to Starbucks for a pumpkin spice latte
[15:47] <nixternal> ;)
[15:47] <Riddell> pumpkin isn't a spice
[15:47] <nixternal> but they make it into one :)
[15:47] <Riddell> amazing what starbucks can do
[15:47] <nixternal> oh it is so good
[15:47] <nixternal> hahahaha
[15:48] <nixternal> and their pumpkin muffins...mmm mmm good
[15:48]  * nixternal goes before he forgets
[16:45] <maestrolinux> http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
[16:45]  * mornfall peers at nixternal, possessing a doubtful expression
[16:45] <ScottK> Just had the case to use the 'recently plugged in devices' feature for the first time and it's really cool.
[16:45] <Riddell> hmm, no staff members
[16:52]  * apachelogger notes that kubotu could take care of kicks ;-)
[16:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 267182 we should remove digikam-kde4
[16:58] <apachelogger> beta1 is way too old and way too buggy
[16:59] <Riddell> apachelogger: ok
[17:25] <Riddell> "https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1  You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to kde-systemsettings in ubuntu"  huh?
[17:30]  * a|wen thinks bug #1 is what you could call a very unofficial discussion board/wall ...
[17:32] <Riddell> yeah, but why is it related to kde-systemsettings
[17:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: because someone once made it affect kde-systemsettings
[17:32] <apachelogger> and one can't make it unaffect
[17:32] <apachelogger> so we keep getting notifications
[17:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: digikam-kde4 gone
[17:32] <apachelogger> thx
[17:35] <ScottK> Riddell and apachelogger: You can probably get an LP dev to edit their database manually to get rid of that.
[17:36] <yuriy> meeting in here today?
[17:36] <mattik> Network vanished from my Kubuntu Intrepid yesterday
[17:36] <mattik> I have used wireless network
[17:37] <mattik> I try to reinstaling today
[17:39] <Riddell> yuriy: isn't #u-meeting free?
[17:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: fridge said something about arabic team IIRC
[17:40] <yuriy> Riddell: email said #kubuntu-devel
[17:41] <a|wen> #u-meeting it's only free for the first hour
[17:41] <apachelogger> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1665
[17:41] <apachelogger> a|wen: the 2nd
[17:41] <apachelogger> we start at 18, they end at 19
[17:42] <Riddell> here it is then I guess
[17:43] <a|wen> you're right ... /me can't do timezone calcs right now it seems
[17:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: you're kdeartwork coordinator?
[17:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: no, I told ruphy to take that job ;-)
[17:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: he seems to think you'd do it, or maybe it's a joke (on kde-release)
[17:50] <apachelogger> Oh? I thought Harald Sitter already volunteered me to be that. :P Anyways, on
[17:50] <apachelogger> kde-artists I got just a +1.
[17:58] <Riddell> right, I misread
[17:58] <apachelogger> oh, ewww
[17:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: the icons from teh kubuntu doc in khelpcenter are stored in kubuntu-docs?
[17:59] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I think so
[17:59] <Riddell> it's too late to oxygenise them
[17:59] <ScottK> Riddell and apachelogger: We got a very nice reply on devel-discuss about kdvi, "This is a strong signal of the will to listen to user needs. I will be happy to keep on working on the new ubuntu - which is by far the most complete I've ever seen."
[18:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh noes :(
[18:00] <apachelogger> ScottK++
[18:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Looks like I missed an entry point for the HAL problem.  I'll fix it this afternoon.  See Bug #281918 for details.
[18:03] <Riddell> hugs to ScottK
[18:04] <ScottK> If someone could go through all the dupes and see if any have a different backtrace, that'd be really helpful ....
[18:06] <a|wen> ScottK: that's a serious amount of duplicates ... i'll start going through them in a minute
[18:09]  * apachelogger notes that deleting 400k files at once is a pretty bad idea
[18:17] <a|wen> ScottK: your lucky day today ... same backtrace all of them
[18:18] <apachelogger> ah!
[18:18] <apachelogger> omg
[18:18] <apachelogger> AH
[18:18] <apachelogger> I am so stupid!
[18:18]  * apachelogger smashes head against the wall
[18:18]  * a|wen graps apachelogger so he stops
[18:19] <apachelogger> I think I found the cause for our non-kde4 desktop file issues!
[18:19] <apachelogger> debian/patches/12_deprecate_applnk.diff
[18:19] <apachelogger> -#define APPLNK_INSTALL_DIR "${SHARE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/applnk"
[18:19] <apachelogger> +#define APPLNK_INSTALL_DIR "${SHARE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/applications"
[18:19] <apachelogger> I just straced kbuildsycoca4
[18:19] <apachelogger> now guess what
[18:19] <apachelogger> it scanns all applnks, then scans all xdg paths
[18:20] <rgreening> lol
[18:20] <apachelogger> and what we get is two entries for apps in usr/share/applications
[18:20] <apachelogger> \o/
[18:20] <apachelogger> hooray for debian
[18:20] <apachelogger> omg
[18:20]  * apachelogger needs to testbuild without that patch
[18:20] <seaLne> i really wish sound worked for me in intrepid for something other than the startup and shutdown sounds
[18:20] <rgreening> apachelogger: we should add a TODO to update apps to use xdg paths. Perhaps we can add any to a list and path then as we get time...
[18:21] <rgreening> s/path/patch
[18:21] <apachelogger> rgreening: we already did that, there are only a couple of apps which slipped through our net
[18:21] <apachelogger> KDE4 ends this completely
[18:21] <apachelogger> there is only a cmake module for the XDG path
[18:22] <rgreening> apachelogger: ok. cool
[18:22] <apachelogger> which also makes that patch completely pointless
[18:22] <nixternal> 38 minutes?
[18:22] <a|wen> nixternal: exactly :)
[18:22] <nixternal> I want to get some more starbucks :)
[18:23] <rgreening> apachelogger: so, are you feeling better today :)
[18:23] <apachelogger> lol
[18:23] <apachelogger> rgreening: I did go to be at 4:30am :P
[18:23] <apachelogger> was fixing that kopenwithdialog bug all night long
[18:24] <rgreening> lol.. I never slept. I was out of town. Mom had a heart mild attack, so I drove to the hospital... she's ok now though.
[18:24] <apachelogger> :|
[18:24] <rgreening> it was a scare...
[18:25] <rgreening> but it's all good now
[18:25] <rgreening> apachelogger: anyway, I have to unpack ... but I'll be back for the meeting.
[18:27]  * apachelogger  unpacks kde4libs :)
[18:39] <ScottK> a|wen: Thanks for looking.
[18:41] <rgreening> apachelogger: If I tag a package as suggests, then it won't automatically get installed (rather then recommends which does seem to get pulled in)? correct?
[18:41] <apachelogger> rgreening: yes
[18:41] <ScottK> rgreening: That's right.
[18:41] <rgreening> ok. My blunder.. I mistakenly used a recommends...
[18:42] <ScottK> a|wen: Any thoughts on how to trigger the Guidance bug?  I can't seem to manage it.
[18:48] <a|wen> ScottK: it is triggered as HAL is not running (or not avaible at that moment) as far as i can see ... one of the reporters talked about experiencing it just after suspend; don't know how hal/dbus handles this
[18:50] <ScottK> a|wen: Right.  The problem is I can't get past the fix I did do to give this one a chance to happen.
[18:50] <a|wen> ScottK: it's triggered as the connection is lost; we are trying to reconnect, but this generates an exception that crashes
[18:50] <ScottK> OK.
[18:51] <rgreening> apachelogger: I'm updating kdebase-workspace for the python-plasma bit - 1) make the examples a suggest 2) commented out the code in the example that crashes plasma
[18:51] <apachelogger> rgreening++
[18:51] <apachelogger> rgreening: make sure you catch all the crashy code
[18:51] <a|wen> ScottK: are we sure it still happens ... couldn't find any very recent duplicates
[18:52] <ScottK> a|wen: The thing is that error type was introduced in the same upload as my fix, so it has to still be there unless yours got it.
[18:53] <rgreening> apachelogger: yeah. It's isolated to calling the dataEngine plasma bits. If I run it in plasmaviewer, it segfaults (which should not crash plasma when run from there but does). So I commented out the _init_ call to that section.
[18:53] <apachelogger> ok
[18:54] <a|wen> ScottK: then it is there ... is it correctly seen that you try to catch this exception in the g-p-m.py file?
[18:55] <ScottK> I do catch it, but not there.  I can see where if you got to that point with no HAL it would die.  I just can't get there.
[18:56] <ScottK> I think I just replicated it.
[18:56] <a|wen> ScottK: it's part of the 5 second poling ... find "def poll" in g-p-m.py
[18:57] <a|wen> ScottK: 4 lines down you have self.powermanager.checkHAL()
[18:57] <ScottK> Yes.  That's where I need to fix it.
[18:57] <a|wen> :)
[18:57] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in a minute
[18:57] <Riddell> or four
[18:57] <apachelogger> 3
[18:57] <Riddell> deal
[18:58] <ScottK> a|wen: I just stopped and started HAL a large number of times and got the crash.
[18:58] <apachelogger> a|wen: please apply for https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members
[18:58] <ScottK> apachelogger: Do it like Hobbsee got core-dev.  Apply for him.
[18:59] <apachelogger> ScottK: huh?
[18:59]  * apachelogger doesn't know that story :D
[18:59] <a|wen> ScottK: it sounds like you got the patch in your head then, and just need to write it down :)
[19:00] <ScottK> She never applied for core-dev.  Mithrandir did her application.
[19:00] <ScottK> a|wen: Yes.   "Your membership is awaiting approval from one of this team's administrators. "
[19:00] <a|wen> ScottK: that's what we want
[19:01]  * a|wen graps something hot to drink during the meeting
[19:01] <apachelogger> ~topic set Welcome to today's Kubuntu Meeting. Agenda: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[19:01]  * apachelogger pokes Riddell
[19:01] <Riddell> Tonio_, seele, Nightrose, nixternal, yuriy: ping
[19:02] <yuriy> here!
[19:02]  * a|wen waves
[19:03]  * jussi01 waves to everyone
[19:03] <Riddell> hmm, short of council
[19:03] <Riddell> yuriy: able to call nixternal? +1<PHONE_NUMBER>
[19:03]  * ivorian waves
[19:04] <seele> Riddell: pong
[19:04] <Riddell> yay, quorum
[19:04] <apachelogger> hooray
[19:04] <Riddell> a|wen: would you like to go first
[19:04] <Riddell> a|wen: tell us about yourself and why you want to be a kubuntu member
[19:05] <apachelogger> Wiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AndreasWenning LP: https://launchpad.net/~andreas-wenning
[19:05] <Nightrose> meep
[19:05] <Nightrose> meeting here?
[19:05] <apachelogger> yus
[19:05] <a|wen> Riddell: i'll do that
[19:05] <Nightrose> sorry for being a little late
[19:05] <apachelogger> Nightrose: just started, a|wen's application for membership is on
[19:05]  * txwikinger says hello
[19:06] <nixternal> yo yo
[19:06] <nixternal> heheh
[19:06] <Nightrose> apachelogger: thx
[19:06] <nixternal> I just got back from starbucks :)
[19:06] <yuriy> hi nixternal, tried calling you
[19:06] <a|wen> I've from DK and a student ... I've been using kubuntu since dapper; as my first linux experience, and just loves it :) and try to help out whereever i can
[19:06] <nixternal> hehe, so did Riddell :)
[19:07] <a|wen> I've been fixing bugs since the beginning of this year, and really wants to continue to contibute in that way some more
[19:07] <Riddell> a|wen: what's the Kubuntu community like in Denmark?
[19:08] <apachelogger> a|wen: are you member of the danish loco?
[19:08] <a|wen> not very big ... we have a active ubuntu community; but it seems that out of those we are only 2 kubuntu users that i know of (one is me)
[19:09] <seele> a|wen: are you still a student?
[19:09]  * apachelogger diggs for his loco question
[19:09] <ScottK> + gives HUGE pluses to a|wen's application.  He's been a great help to me on getting KDE 3.5.10 into Hardy, kde-guidance/guidance-power-manager, klamav, and I'm sure other stuff I can't think of right now.
[19:09] <nixternal> a|wen: don't feel bad...pretty much the same here in Chicago as well
[19:09] <Riddell> a|wen: have you found it easy to get fixes into Kubuntu?  anything that isn't as smooth as it should be?
[19:09] <nixternal> my beating up ubuntu users to make them kubuntu users hasn't worked out well yet :)
[19:10] <apachelogger> nixternal: beat em with clocks
[19:10] <apachelogger> everyone loves clocks
[19:10] <a|wen> i'm not a member of the loco-team yet ... the team has just undergone some changes to be an danish organization (with special benefits), so it's has been closed for submissions, but opened up again, so i'll be a member in next week i hope
[19:10] <yuriy> a|wen: I know you did a great job getting fixes in for guidance for hardy.  what have you been doing for intrepid?
[19:10] <nixternal> ya, they don't get that...I told them Kubuntu and KDE 4 is the distro and desktop of choice for Flavor Flav
[19:11] <a|wen> seele: i'm studying for a master in telecom
[19:11] <ivorian> ha
[19:11] <nixternal> a|wen: groovy, LoCo work has been without a doubt my favorite thing here...can be a pita at times, but has always seemed to have just worked out
[19:11] <a|wen> Riddell: yeah ... both you, ScottK, apachelogger and yuriy has been great sponsors :)
[19:11] <nixternal> a|wen: what are you future plans with Kubuntu if you were to become a member? How do you thinkk you can help make it better?
[19:12]  * yuriy clearly never sponsored anything
[19:12] <nixternal> heh
[19:12] <seele> a|wen: if you get a job how much will that affect your participation in kubuntu?
[19:12] <a|wen> yuriy: i've had a busy august+september ... but i'm getting back at it
[19:13] <nixternal> a|wen: that can be expected...I have had a busy June to today and I too am getting back at it
[19:13] <a|wen> i'll mainly be focusing on making kubuntu rock in the long run (like the kde3.5.10 fixes) ... all the fancy new stuff is not my main focus (but i'm not afraid on touching it :) )
[19:13] <nixternal> ahh, you did all of the 3.5.10 stuff right?
[19:13] <a|wen> seele: i already have a job now ... so getting a real job later will merely give me more time ;)
[19:14] <nixternal> hehe
[19:14] <apachelogger> lol
[19:14] <nixternal> I wish that were true for me...but who knows what the future might bring
[19:14] <a|wen> nixternal: ScottK did all the packages ... but i set a goal of fixing all regressions coming up, and succeeded :)
[19:14] <nixternal> good job!
[19:14] <Riddell> well +1 from me for work done and ScottK's testimonial
[19:14] <nixternal> +1 from me as well
[19:15] <apachelogger> seele, Nightrose?
[19:15] <Riddell> seele, Nightrose, yuriy?
[19:15] <Nightrose> +1 for showing kde 3 some love
[19:15] <seele> Riddell: +1
[19:15] <nixternal> a|wen: congratulations!!! \o/ - keep up the outstanding work, and here is to a very bright future working together!!!
[19:15] <yuriy> +1 for all the great fixes for hardy
[19:15] <jussi01> congrats a|wen ! :)
[19:15] <yuriy> need maintainers for 3.5
[19:15] <Nightrose> welcome a|wen :)
[19:16] <Riddell> welcome along a|wen
[19:16]  * a|wen smiles ... thanks to everyone who have helped and shown confidence along the way :)
[19:16] <Riddell> rgreening: about?
[19:16] <yuriy> welcome a|wen
[19:16]  * apachelogger hands a|wen a cookie
[19:16] <rgreening> yep
[19:16] <rgreening> gratz a|wen
[19:16] <Riddell> rgreening: you're up next, who are you and why do you like Kubuntu?
[19:16] <apachelogger> Wiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/rgreening LP: https://edge.launchpad.net/~roderick-greening
[19:16] <nixternal> hiya rgreening! care to introduce yourself?
[19:16] <a|wen> thx apachelogger :)
[19:16] <rgreening> sure thing..
[19:16] <rgreening> I have been using Linux since 93, many distros. I started using Kubuntu at dapper, but only dabbled with it.
[19:16] <rgreening> My primary OS was Gentoo, and I was developing (patches, bug fixings, etc) for them prior to my departure fully to Kubuntu at Fiesty.
[19:17] <rgreening> During this last couple of months, I have found a renewed interest/drive to get back into developing, and asked Riddell what I could help with. Since then, I have been busy updating packages, patches, etc.
[19:17] <rgreening> I have  a B.Sc. in Comp Sci, and experienced in programming in many languages.
[19:17] <seele> rgreening: what are some of your plans for jaunty?  i see you are going to uds
[19:17] <seele> rgreening: c++ too? :)
[19:18] <rgreening> yeah, c++
[19:18] <Riddell> rgreening: you seem to change distros a lot, do you think you'll stick with Kubuntu?
[19:18]  * seele pulls rgreening in to kde-core-devel
[19:18] <ivorian> rgreenin has done really solid work with  all the new stuff
[19:18] <nixternal> rgreening: seeing as you have been using linux as long as I have...what made you choose to switch to Kubuntu, seeing it is a part of a new user community?
[19:18] <rgreening> Riddell: I was looking for a solid place to hang my hat. Kubuntu has provided that for me.
[19:19] <Nightrose> rgreening: what made you switch to kubuntu?
[19:19] <apachelogger> rgreening: are you member of a loco?
[19:19] <rgreening> I mainly switched as I had a lot of friends looking for something to use. Now they all use Kubuntu.
[19:19] <nixternal> rock!
[19:19] <rgreening> :) 15+ converts Including my parents
[19:19] <rgreening> apachelogger: nope. english (canadian)
[19:20] <ScottK> rgreening:  Gets ++++ from me.  He's been very helpful in fixing/triaging.
[19:20] <seele> +1
[19:20] <rgreening> I love coding... and fixing
[19:20] <rgreening> In my current work, I do not get to use my skils. Here I get to test them to the max.
[19:20] <a|wen> rgreening: as long as you don't make coding errors just to have something to fix ;)
[19:20] <Nightrose> +1 from me - always good to have coders around and you seem to be doing good work :)
[19:21] <yuriy> +1, what Nightrose said
[19:21] <rgreening> a|wen: lol
[19:21] <Riddell> +1 from me too, for fixing everything he's been asked to
[19:21] <nixternal> rgreening: via your wiki page => "Work on things to help Kubuntu catch up with Ubuntu for usability." ... care to elaborate what you feel Kubuntu is missing in order to catch up with Ubuntu on usability?
[19:21] <seele> anyone who knows c++ gets a +1 from me.. we need more of them
[19:21] <nixternal> I know c++
[19:21] <apachelogger> ^_^
[19:21] <nixternal> can I get a +1 :)
[19:21] <seele> nixternal: you already have +1s
[19:21] <ScottK> nixternal: Yes, but you don't do anything .
[19:22] <nixternal> oh, groovy :)
[19:22] <yuriy> nixternal: no, no membership for you
[19:22] <seele> oooh
[19:22] <Riddell> congratulations rgreening
[19:22] <yuriy> welcome rgreening
[19:22] <nixternal> ScottK: you going to UDS? If so, remind me that you have a boot to the butt coming :P
[19:22] <nixternal> +1
[19:22] <rgreening> nixternal: well, it seems Ubuntu gets changes but we sometimes miss them (gdm guest account )
[19:22] <nixternal> hhahaha
[19:22]  * apachelogger also hands rgreening a cookie
[19:22] <Riddell> onto the somewhat lengthy agenda
[19:22] <nixternal> congrats
[19:22] <a|wen> welcome rgreening :)
[19:22]  * rgreening takes a bow..
[19:22] <rgreening> ty
[19:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: had an item for the state of kubuntu bugs
[19:22] <ScottK> nixternal: No.  Sorry you'll need to catch me at a different time.
[19:22] <apachelogger> rgreening: KDM is a very special case of features ;-)
[19:22] <apachelogger> well
[19:23] <apachelogger> jonny and I have been fighting with bugs
[19:23] <apachelogger> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/kdebase
[19:23] <apachelogger> we almost got kdebase to 0 NEW, which is uberawesome
[19:23] <yuriy> indeed
[19:23] <apachelogger> kdepim is more like a battlefield these days and we have a pretty decent new incoming triage
[19:23] <rgreening> very
[19:23] <apachelogger> that said, kubuntu bugs is active and very productive
[19:24] <apachelogger> a|wen also did a lot of triage on old untouched bugs, btw ;-)
[19:24] <rgreening> yeah, check them 5-a-day stats for apachelogger
[19:24] <apachelogger> http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/
[19:24] <nixternal> Riddell: at Ohio Linux Fest, I sat down with Jono and Jorge concerning the Upstream stuff and bugs in Malone and volunteered to take on a couple of projects...just an FYI... jcastro has more info on that if you need filling in
[19:24] <a|wen> awesome work apachelogger
[19:25] <apachelogger> So, is there anything we need to give special attention to regarding upcoming Intrepid release?
[19:25] <apachelogger> besides the missing translations
[19:25] <rgreening> +1 awesome
[19:25] <nixternal> I guess it is time for me to start doing 5-a-day work again
[19:25] <yuriy> did bluetooth get fixed?
[19:25] <Riddell> looks like apachelogger is going great from those stats, crimsun is just scary though
[19:25] <nixternal> I was the top for a while, until I was told to simmer down and let the new people to get in on it :)
[19:26] <apachelogger> I think crimsun is cheating :P
[19:26] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think the main thing to look for is upgrade bugs
[19:26] <nixternal> Riddell: crimsun is insane, trust me!
[19:26] <Riddell> I think kde 3 to 4 upgrades are still under-tested and we'll get quite a few problems when people try it
[19:26] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:26] <nixternal> the only problem I had was related to X
[19:27] <Riddell> yuriy: no, is bug 280997
[19:27] <rgreening> Riddell: I have a friend I'm going to get him to do the up tonight.
[19:27] <a|wen> Riddell: wasn't hardy -> intrepid upgrade offer disabled in adept ?
[19:27] <apachelogger> we also don't get a lot of reports from kde3=>kde4
[19:27] <ScottK> Riddell: mvo did get the *-dev special case done, so that'll help some.
[19:27] <nixternal> apachelogger: my blinking dual monitor issue I think is related to krandr
[19:27] <nixternal> because I don't have that issue on Ubuntu
[19:27] <Riddell> a|wen: yes, so people will need to know how to run the command
[19:27] <nixternal> with the same xorg.conf...the pissy part is I fixed that last week, and this week I can't remember how I fixed that
[19:27] <apachelogger> nixternal: I noticed that as well
[19:27] <Riddell> ScottK: I think the package upgrade is fine, it's more the settings upgrade I'm less sure about
[19:28] <nixternal> can we remove krandr since it a) doesn't work and b) seems to be causing problems for a few of us?
[19:28] <apachelogger> nixternal: do they use different resolutions maybe?
[19:28] <rgreening> Riddell: does update-notifier-kde detect dist upgrade now (or can it)
[19:28] <nixternal> apachelogger: I looked, the resolutions looked the same
[19:28] <Riddell> rgreening: yes
[19:28] <nixternal> I even removed krandrrc from config
[19:28] <apachelogger> nixternal: a few doesn't qualify for removal IMHO
[19:28] <nixternal> it does when it effects me :P
[19:28] <apachelogger> lol
[19:29] <nixternal> can we break it out as a standalone package at all?
[19:29] <apachelogger> no
[19:29] <nixternal> one that isn't required?
[19:29] <nixternal> damnit, go with me :P
[19:29] <apachelogger> I think it is pretty strong bound into workspace
[19:29] <nixternal> ya, I was thinking the same...I just glanced over it a bit
[19:29] <apachelogger> at least plasma requires it to do the on-the-fly resizing of the panle etc.
[19:29] <seele> (brb office call)
[19:29] <Riddell> I think we're slipping into the next topic "Stuff that needs to be sorted/fixed for Intrepid"
[19:29] <nixternal> ya, looks like it
[19:29] <apachelogger> already are
[19:29]  * apachelogger should have marked that ;-)
[19:30] <Riddell> of which langpacks are the top of the list
[19:30]  * nixternal shudders
[19:30] <nixternal> what needs to be fixed there?
[19:30] <Riddell> they tried to make new ones this morning but they were still incomplete, an export is ongoing so hopefully tomorrow we'll have something
[19:30] <nixternal> ok, if I am up when they come out I can work on those
[19:30] <nixternal> I have absolutely nothing planned this weekend for once...to cold for me to ride
[19:30] <Riddell> nixternal: work on them?
[19:31] <Riddell> hopefully they'll just work
[19:31] <nixternal> get them packaged up
[19:31] <nixternal> updated
[19:31] <Riddell> they package themselves
[19:31] <nixternal> true
[19:31] <Riddell> langpacks from launchpad (not KDE)
[19:31] <nixternal> oh
[19:31] <nixternal> sorry, I was thinking from KDE
[19:31] <apachelogger> Anything else?
[19:32] <nixternal> krandr? :)
[19:32] <Riddell> but testing will be needed to make sure they contain all the required translations
[19:32] <apachelogger> nixternal: what's your proposal?
[19:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Fire up those C++ skillz and fix it.
[19:32] <nixternal> make it work!
[19:32]  * apachelogger agrees with ScottK :P
[19:32] <nixternal> ScottK: ya, I need to definitely look at it
[19:32] <Riddell> it works for me
[19:32] <Riddell> not that I've done much with it
[19:33] <nixternal> I need to get out of this Java and Python rut my work has put me into
[19:33]  * a|wen will test langpacks in his own language as soon as they are up
[19:33] <Riddell> no claydoh around
[19:33] <Riddell> "Do we want a FAQ or page for users describing what to expect in their transition from KDE3 to KDE4? I can work on this -- claydoh "
[19:33] <Riddell> yes I think that would be lovely
[19:33] <nixternal> +1
[19:33] <apachelogger> +1
[19:33] <Riddell> apachelogger on preventing borkage
[19:34] <apachelogger> networkmanager was broken, bluetooth is still broken
[19:34] <apachelogger> ideas on how to prevent this kind of stuff?
[19:34] <rgreening> +1
[19:34] <Riddell> I think we just need to catch these things early
[19:34] <txwikinger> nvidia probles should be mentioned
[19:34] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I think this should be a topic at UDS.
[19:34] <apachelogger> I was thinking that maybe assigning someone as direct contact would make sense.
[19:34] <Riddell> e.g. when someone posts to kubuntu-devel we need to make sure we respond
[19:35] <yuriy> well, about that, they did send an email to kubuntu-devel a couple days before making the bluetooth change
[19:35] <yuriy> calling for testing
[19:35] <rgreening> ScottK: +1 on that
[19:35] <Riddell> and we need more kubuntu core-dev to make sure our voice is heard
[19:35] <yuriy> afaik nobody tested or responded
[19:35] <ScottK> Riddell: The problem (As I see it) is not us catching, but Ubuntu caring
[19:35] <apachelogger> +1 on more core devs
[19:35] <Riddell> ScottK: yep, but alas it's up to us to make sure they care
[19:35] <rgreening> apachelogger: that's next on my list of things to accomplish
[19:35] <ScottK> yuriy: True for bluetooth.  Not AFAIK true for networkmanager
[19:35] <seele> (back)
[19:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: it would be easier for them to care if they (the ones that break stuff) have to deal with someone from us directly
[19:36] <yuriy> still, they shouldn't have gone ahead with the change without any response
[19:36] <a|wen> we should have a direct contact person that they can ask if they are in doubt about breaking (or in general in doubt)?
[19:36] <ScottK> Riddell: There was a lot of "Tough - you're a derivative, it's up to you to keep up" feedback.
[19:36] <apachelogger> a|wen: general exchange
[19:36] <Riddell> a|wen: they have plenty, a whole channel here
[19:37] <ScottK> Riddell: I think the basic question of are they required to care needs to be clarified.
[19:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: yeah, but if they have someone specific we add a social component to it
[19:37] <nixternal> Riddell: I will talk to a few people and see if they will help others start caring...it is worth a shot imho
[19:37] <a|wen> Riddell: yeah ... but they don't seem to be aware of it
[19:37] <nixternal> I think if we show that we also care for Ubuntu, things might start to turn around as well
[19:37] <nixternal> we have been pretty much one-sided expecting Ubuntu to be two-sided on quite a few things
[19:37]  * apachelogger did that since he started with Kubuntu and only recently stopped because apparently no one cares that I care
[19:38] <Riddell> nixternal: very noble of you, I'm half expeting suggestions that we should break ubuntu desktop to see how they like it :)
[19:38] <nixternal> Riddell: hahahahah! that is classic
[19:38]  * a|wen thinks someone should learn them to look at rdepends
[19:38] <txwikinger> nixternal: Ubuntu as in Gnome or Ubuntu as in Ubuntu?
[19:38] <ScottK> Riddell: It's not a bad idea.
[19:38] <nixternal> omg, I litterally just wet myself
[19:38] <nixternal> I am crying
[19:38] <apachelogger> lol
[19:38]  * ScottK wonders about adding KDE-only to the Amarok .desktop
[19:39] <nixternal> trying to gain some komposure....2 wrongs don't make a right :P
[19:39] <yuriy> nixternal: but we don't generally work on underlying libraries here
[19:39]  * rgreening smiles at ScottK
[19:39] <a|wen> ScottK: and make another desktop file that is gnome-only to install kubuntu-desktop ;)
[19:39] <apachelogger> yuriy: all the more b0rkage we can cause
[19:39] <nixternal> yuriy: hahaha, dang you apachelogger for taking my line somewhat
[19:39] <apachelogger> :P
[19:40] <apachelogger> well
[19:40] <ScottK> Riddell: There is a fundamental question about are Kubuntu and Ubuntu siblings or is there a parent-child relationship that I think needs to be clarified.
[19:40] <yuriy> ScottK: and which one is the younger child ;)
[19:40] <nixternal> we need see about working a little closely with Ubuntu (almost referred to them as upstream, though they are in some ways)
[19:41] <nixternal> Seb: you went back to KDE?
[19:41] <nixternal> Me: ya dude, I cannot stand gnome at all...it reminds me of getting school clothes at kmart when I was a little kid, and then the other kids beating me up
[19:41] <a|wen> as both ubuntu-desktop development and ubuntu as in underlying libs/kernel is going on in the same irc-channel / same mail list they naturally get more closely connected
[19:41] <nixternal> lol...I installed Ubuntu on my laptop at work to give a shot and it lasted all but 4 hours I think
[19:41] <rgreening> Ubuntu is the whole, I just think a lot of the devs ar Gmone affectionados, and that's what we need to get around. We need them to realize that being a dev means being courteous to all package providers. It's not a sererate distro, just a desktop alternative
[19:42] <Riddell> ScottK: yep
[19:42] <rgreening> s/Gmone/Gnome
[19:42] <apachelogger> a|wen: that is not true
[19:42] <apachelogger> Hobbsee raised that topic recently
[19:42] <rgreening> though Gmone sounds funnier
[19:42] <ScottK> Riddell: I think that's the topic for UDS.
[19:42] <apachelogger> the ubuntu-devel list is not gnome-specific
[19:42] <apachelogger> there is almost no gnome stuff going on there, that is all happening at the ubuntu-desktop list
[19:42] <Riddell> ScottK: fell free to start that UDS topic wiki page I was asking tonio to do earlier
[19:42] <nixternal> well, Kubuntu will win the dance-off at UDS hands down!
[19:42] <a|wen> apachelogger: what about the ubuntu-devel irc channel?
[19:42] <nixternal> that will get us noticed
[19:43] <apachelogger> a|wen: that is mixed indeed
[19:43] <apachelogger> but then again there is no #kubuntu-motu either
[19:43] <seele> speaking of uds, who is going?
[19:43] <Riddell> nixternal: we could do with some musicians for the All Stars concert
[19:43] <ScottK> a|wen: That is mostly foundations stuff.  Some Gnome, but most of that is in #ubuntu-desktop
[19:44] <ScottK> We also discuss KDE stuff there too when needed.
[19:44] <a|wen> okay ... just seemed to be more mixed in many medias to me
[19:44] <nixternal> Riddell: damn, I am the furthest thing from a musician, and after watching your karoaki, I don't think you can sing :P
[19:44] <apachelogger> omg!
[19:44] <apachelogger> nixternal: how dare you
[19:44] <nixternal> lol
[19:44]  * txwikinger missed the Karaoki
[19:44] <rgreening> If I sing, you better run. glass will shatter
[19:44] <Riddell> I think we should move on
[19:44] <apachelogger> yes
[19:44] <a|wen> apachelogger: it looks like #kubuntu-motu stuff is going on in #kubuntu-devel as well
[19:44] <nixternal> I with rgreening there, I break glass
[19:45] <nixternal> a|wen: as it should I think
[19:45] <apachelogger> a|wen: we are too lazy to switch channels :P
[19:45] <nixternal> lol
[19:45] <nixternal> though we do help out quite a bit in *-motu
[19:45] <apachelogger> Can we (man power)/should we (sensible use of man power) target kubuntu-mid/kubuntu-mobile for Jaunty? Form a core team? Who could work on it at all?
[19:45] <a|wen> nixternal: agreed
[19:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: will upstream be ready for that?
[19:45] <apachelogger> most likely
[19:45] <persia> I'm willing to share experiences getting the ubuntu-mobile flavour going if that would help for this topic.
[19:46] <nixternal> for mobile I would say yes to upstream being ready
[19:46]  * txwikinger likes to get into mobile
[19:46] <apachelogger> KDE started work on plasma-mid (a new containment type + panel)
[19:46] <nixternal> I witnessed some super cool mobile machines at Ohio Linux Fest running Kubuntu/KDE4
[19:46] <Riddell> would we have people with the hardware?
[19:46] <apachelogger> mockup: http://www.notmart.org/misc/plasma-mid.png
[19:46] <jussi01> nice
[19:46] <persia> Hardware is largely available retail at this point, although it's not clear if everyone has it.
[19:46] <nixternal> that looks good
[19:47] <nixternal> I would be willing to pick up something mobile to help out
[19:47] <apachelogger> smarter got an eee
[19:47] <txwikinger> nixternal: anything cheaper than openmoko?
[19:47] <nixternal> price doesn't matter if I can help make something FREE better :)
[19:47] <Riddell> persia: what are the outcomes of ubuntu-mobile?  a seed and meta package, CD images?  is there much coding has to be done?
[19:47] <txwikinger> easy to say when you have a job :p
[19:48] <jussi01> is this something that should/will run on n800/n810?
[19:48] <rgreening> I may be able to get something (if I can get it cheap). Will a gp2x be able to run it?
[19:48] <jussi01> if so, I have an n800
[19:48] <apachelogger> oh, right, to clearify ... I talked with persia and ogra -mobile would be that plasma thing, and persia suggest to have kubuntu-mid based upon Qtopia
[19:48] <Riddell> s/Qtopia/Qt Extended/
[19:48] <apachelogger> yus ;-)
[19:48] <persia> Riddell, For Ubuntu Mobile, it was a seed derived from Ubuntu Desktop, with minor changes in app selection (e.g. s/firefox/midbrowser), a new theme, a new settings package, and use of devilspie to make things full screen.
[19:48] <nixternal> w00t, I was playing with Qtopia recently for a mobile platform project at work
[19:48] <Riddell> would be good to have that packaged, fabo tried a while ago in Debian but I don't think he got anywhere
[19:48] <Nightrose> i have got an eee too for testing if needed
[19:48] <nixternal> I have to say that is pretty slick, but takes a lot of getting used to
[19:48] <persia> With the seed, then it was just getting images in the data centre.
[19:49] <Riddell> well it sounds like there's interest, so great, let's do it :)
[19:49] <apachelogger> Nightrose: since you are KDE fame, do you think you could get us some free devices? ;-)
[19:49] <persia> jussi01, Nothing *buntu is going to run on the n800 unless LP grows ARM buildds.
[19:49] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i can try but don't get your hopes up high
[19:49] <Riddell> persia: I'm pretty sure that'll happen at some point
[19:49] <jussi01> persia: even though nokia is supposedly porting?
[19:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: I guess we should do a call on the mailing list.
[19:50] <apachelogger> find people who could help and test
[19:50] <nixternal> Nightrose: well, seeing as the Pilot people had issues, I am willing to bet more of the same
[19:50] <Riddell> would be a UDS topic too
[19:50] <yuriy> this should probably be a topic at UDS
[19:50] <persia> jussi01, nokia ports post-release, which makes it hard to fix bugs effectively.
[19:50] <Nightrose> nixternal: ?
[19:50] <nixternal> +1 on UDS
[19:50] <nixternal> Nightrose: they tried getting a bunch of PDAs for KPilot testing a couple of years back without much success
[19:50] <nixternal> I ended up donating some old PDAs I had
[19:50] <Nightrose> nixternal: ahhh
[19:50] <Nightrose> well we have nokia now
[19:51] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:51] <nixternal> good point
[19:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: "How to deploy KDE 4.2 pre-stable releases?"
[19:51] <nixternal> damn good point
[19:51] <nixternal> would be nice if we could backport them :)
[19:51] <rgreening> yeah
[19:51] <apachelogger> Proposal: use the KDE 4 PPA for stable KDE + (un)stable extra apps (e.g. Amarok 2) || use kubuntu-experimental for unstable KDE || other options: kubuntu-members-kde4-unstabl
[19:51] <apachelogger> We are going to backport.
[19:51] <nixternal> rock on
[19:51] <Riddell> kubuntu-experimental seems sensible
[19:51] <nixternal> do testing from the PPA?
[19:51] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:52] <Riddell> our PPAs are inconsistently named though
[19:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Are we going to work on 4.1 updates in intrepid-backports -> -updates like we did 3.5.10?
[19:52] <nixternal> ya, we can fix that easily though
[19:52] <yuriy> "unstable" meaning betas or snapshots?
[19:52] <apachelogger> Well
[19:52] <nixternal> unstable meaning they haven't been well tested
[19:52] <nixternal> experimental would be betas or snapshots
[19:52] <Riddell> ScottK: yes that seems sensible
[19:52] <nixternal> like debian I am guessing?
[19:52] <apachelogger> the idea is to have alpha/beta/rc in a seperated archive
[19:52] <apachelogger> that way we can keep doing inofficial updates in the kde4-members ppa
[19:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Then keeping 4.2 out of intrepid-backports and in *ppa is the way to go.
[19:53] <ScottK> We should jump Jaunty to 4.2 as soon as the first alpha is out though.
[19:53] <apachelogger> once KDE 4.2.0 is out, we release the packages to the kde4-members ppa
[19:53] <Riddell> ScottK: I think 4.2 can go in backports once it's stable
[19:53] <Riddell> ScottK: agree on jaunty
[19:53] <ScottK> Riddell: Well then we'll use -proposed for 4.1 updates.
[19:53] <apachelogger> alpha is due in a couple of days IIRC
[19:54] <Riddell> ScottK: do you know if that is that what Gnome do?
[19:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think we'll wait on packaging that until intrepid is out
[19:54] <persia> GNOME is dropping 2.24.1 on Monday or so.  2.24.2 will be through -updates
[19:54] <persia> (based on the release meeting traffic)
[19:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[19:55] <Riddell> persia: but does it go through -proposed first or -backport or straight into -updates?
[19:55] <ScottK> Riddell: They use -updates
[19:55] <ScottK> Err. proposed
[19:55] <persia> Riddell, -proposed -> -updates
[19:55] <Riddell> right, we can do that too then
[19:55] <apachelogger> +1
[19:55] <Riddell> for 4.1
[19:55] <ScottK> OK.  4.2 in -backports after 4.2.0 and 4.1.x releases in -proposed to -updates
[19:56] <Riddell> yep
[19:56] <nixternal> +1
[19:56] <Riddell> and 4.2 alphas/betas in jaunty and kubuntu-experimental
[19:56] <apachelogger> ok, KDE 4.2 alpha/beta/rc for Intrepid => kubuntu-experimental, KDE 4.2.x for Intrepid => hardy-backports, KDE 4.1.x for Intrepid => hardy-propsed/updates, KDE 4.2* in Jaunty ASAP
[19:56] <persia> hardy-proposed?
[19:57] <apachelogger> eh
[19:57] <yuriy> huh? 4.1 isn't in hardy-updates, is it?
[19:57] <apachelogger> *intrepid-proposed
[19:57] <yuriy> oh
[19:57] <Riddell> off by one release error
[19:57]  * smarter is back :)
[19:57] <apachelogger> 3 releases in mind is too many
[19:57]  * smarter reads the log
[19:58] <Riddell> it's a plan
[19:58] <apachelogger> GAP Analysis - what is missing from KDE4 vs. KDE3 and what holes should we look at filling or recommend alternatives to users -- roderick-greening 2008-10-17 19:17:32
[19:58] <Riddell> rgreening has the next item
[19:58] <rgreening> I think this fits in somewhat with the FAQ meantioned above
[19:58] <Riddell> we have less holes than I expected at the start of the cycle
[19:58] <rgreening> with some extra bits
[19:58] <rgreening> Riddell: I agree. It's come a long way
[19:59] <apachelogger> not much missing from my POV
[19:59] <nixternal> I think Kile is the only thing I am really missing from KDE 3
[19:59] <a|wen> what is the text-editor of choice then?
[19:59] <apachelogger> yeah, hopefully we will have the major extra apps ported for Jaunty
[19:59] <serzholino> will Kde4.1 continue to be udated for hardY after interpid release?
[19:59] <yuriy> user config utility :(
[19:59] <apachelogger> serzholino: no
[19:59] <yuriy> sorry
[20:00] <Riddell> k3b, amarok, skim and openoffice are the kde 3 bits left on my computer
[20:00] <a|wen> s/text/latex
[20:00] <apachelogger> kile is also KDE 3
[20:00] <nixternal> heh, forgot about k3b and amarok...oops
[20:00] <txwikinger> yuriy: I am working on that at the moment if that is ok
[20:00] <apachelogger> kaffeine is mostly superseded by dragonplayer (getting subtitle support in 4.2)
[20:00] <yuriy> txwikinger: oh, cool!
[20:00] <nixternal> I try not to use oo.o
[20:00] <ScottK> Konversation is still KDE3
[20:00] <rgreening> Riddell: should we track these on a page somewhere (or are they already)
[20:00] <apachelogger> digikam is also still KDE 3
[20:00] <nixternal> ScottK: ya, forgot about that too
[20:00] <yuriy> txwikinger: off the bzr branch on lp?
[20:00] <nixternal> digikam is close to a stable release I think
[20:01] <nixternal> their early releases and snapshots are nice
[20:01] <Riddell> rgreening: there's a page on techbase somewhere
[20:01] <ScottK> We just put kdvi back in for latex inverse search support that's missing from okular.
[20:01] <rgreening> Riddell: ok
[20:01] <txwikinger> yuriy: yes, the one from kubuntu-members IIRC
[20:01] <apachelogger> There is some minor annoyance caused by missing KDE 3 apps
[20:01] <apachelogger> like the mentioned kdvi
[20:02] <Riddell> is flash working for people?
[20:02] <apachelogger> worked for me yesterday
[20:02] <rgreening> Works here for me (last I checked)
[20:02]  * rgreening fires up youtube
[20:02] <txwikinger> I think I had one place it did not work, otherwise it dud
[20:02] <txwikinger> did
[20:02] <Riddell> it's unreliable for me in konq, unreliable too in firefox but a bit less so
[20:03] <nixternal> wow, this is the first time I really had a problem with flash :)
[20:03] <Riddell> system-config-printer-kde needs lots of love still
[20:03] <yuriy> works in firefox, will fire up my laptop to check konq
[20:03] <ScottK> Figures that nixternal and Flash would get long.
[20:03] <nixternal> lol
[20:03] <nixternal> shush
[20:03] <seele> adept3 needs additional word too
[20:03] <PeperJohnny> not working in KOnq theres a bugreport
[20:03] <apachelogger> PeperJohnny: not very useful one
[20:03] <rgreening> flash fine here (it's ver 9.. is that what we are running? 10 is out I believe)
[20:04] <seele> *work
[20:04] <rgreening> +++++ on adept
[20:04] <a|wen> but is there any apps missing completely (eg. not even avaible as kde3 version)?
[20:04] <Riddell> seele: on the whole I'm just glad we have a working package manager since we didn't at the start of the cycle and mornfall has put himself very nicely out for our cycle
[20:04] <yuriy> I think flash 10 is in intrepid
[20:04] <apachelogger> Version: <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu1
[20:04] <apachelogger> yus
[20:04] <seele> Riddell: what about packagekit in jaunty?
[20:05] <rgreening> yuriy: hmm.. not sure why I show 9.. will check that later
[20:05] <seele> although kpackagekit probably sucks more than adept
[20:05] <nixternal> people are loving package kit aren't they
[20:05] <seele> aseigo was complaining about it a few days ago
[20:05] <Riddell> seele: we'll evaluate it and see if it works better, I believe some package kit people will be at fosscamp
[20:05] <Riddell> aseigo complain?  surely not :)
[20:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think you should compile a very precise TODO list at UDS
[20:06] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you please accept guidance-power-manager.  Also you'll want to push the patch update upstream.
[20:06] <Riddell> apachelogger: how do you mean?
[20:06] <nixternal> I don't like package kit...I gave it a try in Foresight and did not like it at all
[20:06] <yuriy> apachelogger: I thought the TODO list this cycle was pretty good. more precise than that?
[20:06] <apachelogger> yuriy, Riddell: more precise than the current one
[20:06] <nixternal> I say at UDS, we bang out our meetings as quick as possible and then get down to some dirty work
[20:06] <apachelogger> the more precise the TODO the easier we can distribute work
[20:07] <rgreening> nixternal: +1
[20:07] <Riddell> the value of UDS is mostly in the discussions
[20:07] <apachelogger> discussion to create a good todo :P
[20:07] <ScottK> Riddell: We probably want another "Catch up with Ubuntu" spec for Jaunty.
[20:07] <Riddell> only geniuses like mornfall can write a whole application in one day at a conference :)
[20:08] <Riddell> ScottK: yep
[20:08] <apachelogger> different name though
[20:08]  * apachelogger gets grumpy from that name
[20:08] <rgreening> Ubuntu Ketchup
[20:08] <apachelogger> uh, I like that one
[20:08] <a|wen> and a "kde4 apps missing in intrepid" so we can look for kde4 ports or replacements
[20:08] <yuriy> yay youtube works in konq
[20:08] <persia> That's certainly not a very positive name.  Maybe "Leveraging improvements from Foundations"?
[20:09] <jussi01> hehe
[20:09] <apachelogger> hm
[20:09] <seele> rgreening: the only Ketchup that exists in my universe is Heinz
[20:09] <apachelogger> good as well
[20:09] <apachelogger> but Ketchup is better
[20:09] <ScottK> Speaking of which is anyone willing to work on porting Klamav to KDE4?  Upstream doesn't seem excited about the prospect.
[20:09] <yuriy> nbc.com rewind, however, does not
[20:09] <rgreening> ScottK: If someone want's to help me with it...
[20:10] <apachelogger> it's also maintaining it I guess
[20:10] <apachelogger> which is at times more work than porting
[20:10] <yuriy> rgreening: I can help with pointers (no pun intended)
[20:10] <ScottK> a|wen: Would you be willing to assist rgreening in porting Klamav to KDE4?
[20:10] <apachelogger> ScottK, rgreening: I suggest mailing the list
[20:10] <ScottK> Sure.
[20:10] <a|wen> ScottK: which programming language are we talking about?
[20:10] <rgreening> C++
[20:10] <ScottK> What he said.
[20:11] <rgreening> KDE is C++
[20:11] <ScottK> rgreening: Not all of it.
[20:11] <apachelogger> ~karma c
[20:11] <kubotu> karma for c: 20
[20:11] <Riddell> except the bits which aren't :)
[20:11] <rgreening> mostly...
[20:11] <apachelogger> ~karma c++
[20:11] <kubotu> c++ has neutral karma
[20:11]  * a|wen don't know c++ ... that's my problem
[20:11] <apachelogger> anywho
[20:11] <apachelogger> let's move on
[20:11] <Riddell> rgreening has a final point
[20:11] <apachelogger> Tutorial on using plasmoids and the new panel and kickoff menu to help users become more familiar with KDE4 - does anything exist and can/should we adopt/write it -- roderick-greening 2008-10-17 19:17:32
[20:12] <rgreening> yeah, I was thinking it would be nice to have some page setup. KDE4 is new to everyone and we should have som tut's or something on kubuntu.org or the wiki
[20:12] <rgreening> if we don't already...
[20:12] <Riddell> there should be some docs in khelpcentre on plasma
[20:12] <Riddell> I don't know how relevant they are
[20:13] <apachelogger> very well hidden
[20:13] <rgreening> So, if you want, I can put together something and we can review later.
[20:13] <apachelogger> maybe claydoh could do that as part of the FAQ work
[20:13] <Riddell> but this goes with claydoh's suggestion earlier, information to help people decide if they want to make the transition and help them along when they do is all good
[20:13] <rgreening> sure...
[20:13] <Riddell> rgreening: want to work with claydoh on that?
[20:13] <yuriy> Riddell: khelpcenter here still has docs on kicker
[20:13] <rgreening> yeah.
[20:13] <nixternal> OK, I am back
[20:13] <ScottK> A big part of which is going to be being very clear on the 'bad' parts of the release notes.
[20:14] <apachelogger> yuriy: what what what?
[20:14] <Riddell> yuriy: err, how?
[20:14] <apachelogger> I removed them?
[20:14] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:14] <nixternal> concerning the Plasmoid tutorial, that should go upstream imho
[20:14] <yuriy> I just fired it up on intrepid and went to "KDE User's manual"
[20:14] <yuriy> and it's KDE3 docs
[20:14] <nixternal> see if aseigo has a team working on it yet or not...I know annma and I were going to work on it at one point and get it in svn
[20:14] <Riddell> nixternal: right enough.  there might be stuff on userbase too
[20:15] <nixternal> I don't think there is any yet
[20:15] <apachelogger> yuriy: ah, true
[20:15] <Riddell> any other business?
[20:15] <apachelogger> out-of-date docs
[20:15] <apachelogger> that need sto be addressed by upstream
[20:15] <yuriy> lol @ Help section in khelpcenter
[20:15] <yuriy> apachelogger: you don't think those should be removed for intrepid though?
[20:15] <yuriy> and I don't see where plasma is
[20:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: is it ok if I upload the kde4libs changes for the broken non-kde4 icons tomorrow?
[20:16] <nixternal> apachelogger: it also needs to be addressed by us as well...I will be working on all of that in the coming weeks, unfortunately that won't help Intrepid at all anytime soon
[20:16] <apachelogger> yuriy: we can't
[20:16] <apachelogger> docs are maintained as docbook files, so we would have to remove this stuff from _all_ languages manually
[20:17] <nixternal> ya, that is to late for that...and that is my fault
[20:17] <Riddell> \l
[20:17] <apachelogger> nixternal: it's not like no one else could have stepped up
[20:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: broken non-kde4?
[20:17] <nixternal> apachelogger: nobody has really attempted to step up and help jjesse and I in over 3 years :(
[20:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: the problem we had with amarok in favorites for example
[20:17] <nixternal> and I don't blaim them to be honest
[20:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: what problem is that?
[20:18] <apachelogger> sec
[20:18] <Riddell> hey, I have no amarok in my favourites
[20:18] <apachelogger> bug #254688
[20:18] <apachelogger> bug #268800
[20:19] <Riddell> tomorrow is fine if you have a fix, it'll still beat any language packs we might have
[20:19] <Riddell> I think the meeting is done
[20:19] <Riddell> thanks for coming friends
[20:19]  * apachelogger hands everyone cookies and milk
[20:19] <apachelogger> ~topic restore
[20:19]  * Riddell goes off to make califlower cheese
[20:19] <apachelogger> ~topic del 4
[20:19] <rgreening> ewww....
[20:19] <nixternal> mmm
[20:19] <blizzz> Riddell: do you come back?
[20:19] <persia> Just a note : I don't usually idle here, but enjoyed seeing the meeting.  If it's not terribly disruptive, I'd encourage having meetings in #ubuntu-meeting.
[20:19] <blizzz> i'll have some questions :D
[20:20] <ScottK> Riddell: Before or after accepting guidance?
[20:20] <nixternal> persia: we usually do...I don't know why we didn't today
[20:20] <apachelogger> persia: arabic meeting was going on
[20:20] <persia> I know that from meetings for the Mobile and Java teams, having them there has lead to people outside the team contributing useful insight.
[20:20] <Riddell> persia: we do but something else was scheduled for today, doesn't seem to have happened though
[20:20] <apachelogger> haha, nice
[20:20] <Riddell> blizzz: hi
[20:20]  * apachelogger hates wrong schedules
[20:20] <blizzz> hi :)
[20:20] <nixternal> Riddell: I will post the raw log to kubuntu-devel
[20:21]  * persia withdraws the comment, ignorance now fully exposed
[20:21] <Riddell> ScottK: voila
[20:21]  * apachelogger gets going get some wine and cheese at the bar around the corner
[20:21] <rgreening> Riddell: I updated kdebase-workspace for a faux-pas on my part. plasma-python-examples was pulled in automatically rather than optional. Also, the exmple had a crash in it. commented it out to avoud.
[20:22] <rgreening> Riddell: it's building in testing now
[20:25] <blizzz> Riddell: i am going to give a talk at ubucon tomorrow (about kubuntu and kubuntu-de.org) and i will focus an contribution. one thing is about programming. you said some weeks ago, developers are needed, so i want to stress it a bit. what execatly is needed (or to be learned)? In the wiki i read C++ and Qt/KDE-programming. is this still so? I think python, too?
[20:27] <Riddell> blizzz: ubucon?
[20:27] <Riddell> blizzz: most of the stuff we do in Kubuntu is pykde, because pykde rocks
[20:27] <blizzz> Riddell: a german ubuntu user conference, this weekend in Göttingen
[20:27] <Riddell> blizzz: most of KDE is C++ so fixes and additions to that needs c++ knowledge
[20:28] <rgreening> Riddell: let me test the build from testing before you promote it... I want to be sure I got it all this time
[20:28] <blizzz> Riddell: i fell in live with pykde too :)
[20:28] <blizzz> okay, so it is c++ or python or both
[20:30] <blizzz> Riddell: are there some defined contact persons, or just shouting out in here?
[20:31] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[20:32] <rgreening> Riddell: yep. I messed up the build....
[20:32]  * a|wen leaves for now ... comes back later to make kile work with okular (then it should at least be more usable)
[20:33] <nixternal> you all got mail!
[20:36] <ScottK> If someone has some bug triaging time available, apport is current mis-attributing guidance-power-manager crashes to python2.5.  It'd be useful for someone to look there and see if there are any more gpm bugs that need to be moved to the correct package.
[20:36] <nixternal> Riddell: when you get a chance. push that email I sent through the filters
[20:37] <nixternal> seems it was to big
[20:37]  * nixternal has to stop using gmail for this stuff...it always bites me
[20:40] <rgreening> lol
[20:40] <a|wen> ScottK: i'll do that later today (in 3-5 hours)
[20:41] <ScottK> a|wen: Great.  Thanks.  If you find anything good I can work on fixing tomorrow.
[20:41] <Riddell> blizzz: here, and we have a list of jobs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo which will be updated for jaunty at some point
[20:42] <a|wen> ScottK: cool ... let's still hope i don't find anything :)
[20:42] <Riddell> nixternal: done
[20:44]  * a|wen is off
[20:44] <nixternal> thank you
[20:46] <blizzz> Riddell: right, this is fairly a good site.
[20:46] <blizzz> Riddell: is this list: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Teams updated? are these people contact persons?
[20:49] <rgreening> Riddell: once I upload to the testing PPA and delete, I can't re-upload with the same name can I?
[20:53] <ScottK> rgreening: No
[20:54] <rgreening> That's what I figured. I made a mistake and caught it after I had uploaded... doh
[20:57] <Riddell> blizzz: it's pretty incomplete, but those would be good people to poke
[20:57] <Riddell> vorian: heard you did good at the ohio do the other day
[20:58] <blizzz> Riddell: thank you
[20:59] <Riddell> I missed out an interesting announcement at the end of the meeting
[20:59] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/KDE Developer-1.pdf
[21:00] <blizzz> that sounds great
[21:01] <jussi01> nice, shame Im not qualified
[21:03] <smarter> wow, cool
[21:07] <ScottK> I'd be qualified to manage that person.
[21:11] <smarter> w00t! I managed to make apps work with KDM :)
[21:11] <smarter> ossi will probably kill me due to the hacky patch, but it works :P
[21:41] <vorian> Riddell: i was defending the sacred honor of Kubuntu
[21:41] <vorian> :P
[21:41] <vorian> nixternal had my back too
[21:58] <yuriy> Riddell: oh, cool!
[21:58]  * yuriy is missing X11 and OpenGL knowledge
[21:59]  * jjesse just fired up his new dell mini-9
[22:01] <rgreening> nixternal: yo.. was there an e-mail I was sup[posed to expect? If so, I never got it yet.
[22:02] <smarter> rgreening: he sent a mail to kubuntu-devel
[22:02] <rgreening> oh.. I'm not on that
[22:03] <yuriy> :O
[22:03] <rgreening> should I be?
[22:07] <yuriy> yes, you should subscribe to kubuntu-devel, mr. kubuntu member/developer
[22:21] <robertknight> seele: ping
[22:28] <rgreening> k yuriy
[22:29] <ScottK> People should really be subscribed to ubuntu-devel too.
[22:29] <ScottK> It's not just for Gnome.
[22:58] <a|wen> ScottK: can't find any bugs in python2.5 regarding g-p-m ... so looks like we're good atm
[22:59] <ScottK-laptop> a|wen: Great.
[22:59] <ScottK-laptop> Thanks for looking.
[22:59] <a|wen> no problem
[23:27] <a|wen> i have a fix for bug 282311 giving us a working out-of-the-box latex environment again ... Riddell or ScottK, does any of you have time to look at it?
[23:28] <ScottK> a|wen: Perhaps tomorrow.  Not today.
[23:30] <a|wen> ScottK: no problem ... just when you have the time: http://awen.dk/packages/kile_2.0.1-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[23:30] <a|wen> or if anyone else feels for offloading ScottK ^^
[23:31] <ScottK> Don't forget apachelogger is core-dev now too.
[23:32] <a|wen> i shall remember that ... apachelogger, don't feel left out, you're welcome too :) ^^
[23:36] <a|wen> hmm ... LP down for maintenance
[23:36] <Riddell> I can look at it
[23:36] <a|wen> thx, Riddell
[23:37] <nixternal> hrmm, it doesn't look like kile is receiving love upstream anymore
[23:38] <ScottK> Ohhh. Riddell and a|wen: nixternal was complaining aboug kile.  Let him sponsor it.
[23:38]  * ScottK goes off to find his kids.
[23:38]  * nixternal wonders why kdevelop hates him so much
[23:39] <a|wen> nixternal: maybe that is connected to the fact that a kde4 port of kile wasn't on the way
[23:40] <nixternal> nah, it was finished porting the first week or so in september
[23:40] <nixternal> with some minor bug fixes here and there it seems
[23:40] <nixternal> it is in extragear which is nice
[23:42] <a|wen> oh, cool ... then we should be able to have it back in full glory for jaunty
[23:42] <Riddell> kile uploaded, thanks a|wen
[23:43] <a|wen> thx :)


[04:27] <rbelem> hi all
[04:27] <rbelem> where can i download the arm toolchain?
[04:30] <rbelem> or should I build my own?
[09:15] <lool> rbelem: We use a native toolchain, you can install Ubuntu on an ARM device directly
[11:41] <rbelem> lool, I bricked my board :-(
[11:43] <rbelem> lool, I'm trying to build a new u-boot and another tools to rescue the board :-/
[11:45] <lool> rbelem: You could build natively within qemu
[11:46] <lool> There's also the possibility of building a cross toolchain or using a non-Ubuntu prebuilt one
[11:46] <lool> I don't know what uboot expectations are, if it's only a naked cross gcc I have that, if it's with libgcc I have not
[11:48] <rbelem> lool, well, i'm following this guide http://nishanthmenon.blogspot.com/2008/12/towards-creating-beagleboard-nand.html
[11:49] <rbelem> lool, and what it says about toolchain is "Cross compiler: arm-none-eabi-gcc: 2007q3-53 (4.2.1)"
[11:49] <rbelem> lool, it seems to be the codesourcery toolchain
[11:50] <armin76> rbelem: you probably want crosstool
[11:50] <armin76> or use gentoo *g*
[11:51] <ogra> rbelem, eh ? why dont you just create an SD card with a recovery u-boot image ?
[11:51] <lool> rbelem: Yes, it's likely to be the code sourcery toolchain; you can download it from code sourcery directly
[11:51] <ogra> there are plenty around you can just dd to the card to fix your board
[11:57] <rbelem> ogra, I tryied all day long, yesterday, using the mmc method, but it did not work for me. I was looking for another way to recover, so I found that one.
[11:58] <ogra> what exactly does your board do on boot? do you get any output on the serial console ?
[11:59] <rbelem> lool, I searched their website and I just found the sources, maybe I did not look very well :-)
[12:00] <rbelem> ogra, I try again and will paste the result to you
[12:05] <lool> rbelem: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Cortex_A8_ARM
[12:07] <rbelem> ogra, I guess it worked, like a miracle. \o/. I just used the same sd card, but it stuck
[12:07] <rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d5921c419
[12:07] <rbelem> thanks very much lool
[12:08] <ogra> :)
[12:08] <rbelem> ogra, yesterday I was getting a different error
[12:11] <rbelem> ogra, i will wait for a while to see what happens
[12:26] <rbelem> ogra, nothing happens, I will reset
[12:27] <rbelem> ogra, now I got the same error
[12:28] <rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d78fb6b36
[12:29] <rbelem> and another
[12:29] <rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d53897951
[12:58] <lool> rbelem: That sounds like hardware issues, but I could be wrong; for PCs, ECC means your RAM is checksummed
[12:58] <lool> Or rather has a parity bit
[13:01] <rbelem> lool, I read somewhere that this error is common when nand is wrongly flashed
[13:02] <lool> Oh ok, might be ECC in the flash then
[13:03] <rbelem> lool, I downloaded a MLO that done that.
[13:03] <rbelem> lool, from here http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/
[13:05] <rbelem> lool, "There are some broken MLO (x-loader) out there which fail to boot if something wrong is in NAND. E.g.: "
[13:06] <rbelem> "This seems to happen with both MLO's from Beagle source code page (381MHz and 500MHz one) independent of U-Boot version. "
[13:06] <rbelem> :-(
[13:11] <lool> Hmm no idea
[14:58] <rbelem> hi all, i'm on the way to unbrick my beagle :-D
[14:59] <rbelem> i'will describe later what was done in details
[14:59] <rbelem> thanks to you all
[14:59] <rbelem> :-D
[15:05] <rbelem> ogra, which kernel fits better for beagle? this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/beagle/kernel/
[15:05] <ogra> no, thats pretty old, i guess the mojo kernels are better for now
[15:05] <ogra> or build something based on the openembedded tree
[15:06] <ogra> they have all the patches for the framebuffer that are missing from linux-omap atm
[15:06] <rbelem> cool! thanks ogra
[15:07] <ogra> ask koen in #beagle where to get it :)
[15:08] <rbelem> ogra, nice! ;-)
[15:08] <rbelem> \o/
[15:12] <ogra> i'd suggest a xubuntu desktop and a lot of swapspace btw
[15:12] <ogra> thats what i run on mine, runs half way decent
[15:13] <ogra> (not actually fast, but usable for the patient soul ; ) )
[16:48] <lool> dave_m: Around?


[12:23] <ajmitch> funny
[12:23] <ajmitch> https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/5141
[12:23] <ajmitch> this person even tried authtool
[12:23] <ajmitch> I wonder how many others have looked at it in feisty


[03:02] <kgiii> I'll keep an eye on it and celebrate when it is fixed. Oddly, I'm watching them race boats in Australia. This is my new life!
[04:27] <kgiii> I realize that this is above the pay grade for anyone here, but is there a good reason why I have to log in to the testing tracker as often as I have to now? It used to be I'd log in once every couple of weeks - or more. Now, it's like every few days before my login expires and I must log in again. I don't care. I don't mind. It's just weird. Again, I do not mind even one iota. They can make it daily and I won't care. It's just
[04:27] <kgiii>  odd and it has changed.
[04:54] <guiverc> no idea (on iso tracker logins) kgiii , I just opened it in a browser & was logged in, however yes I've noted the need to login more than I used to too (I'm just not doing as much testing as I've done in the best due to time etc)
[04:56] <kgiii> @guiverc Oh, I don't actually mind - it's that I notice things that are *different*. This is different. I made sure to check enough times to know that it's different. My objection meter is at zero, but my curiosity meter is pinging near the limit. ;-)
[04:57] <guiverc> I've noted lots of slowness, strange errors on various ubuntu sites.. so I've just ASSUMED (mother of all f..ups) they were making changes & ignored the extra logins..
[06:44] <kgiii> I like your assumption @guiverc. They must be fixing things! I did miss some days as real life has me busy, but that's to be expected in my situation. (That is, I'm fricken busy!)
[06:45] <kgiii> And my connection is horrible. Watch how often I get disconnected! LOL I have to work around that.
[06:46] <guiverc> we do what we can, when we can.... (and with what we've got too... or should I say when we've got it?)


[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[08:23] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:49] <Tm_T> moin
[09:23] <czajkowski> YoBoY: any date/time so I can add to blog post or can we create something in the LTP ?
[10:42] <smartboyhw> czajkowski, ping
[11:30] <czajkowski> smartboyhw: yes?
[11:31] <smartboyhw> czajkowski, is it possible that a Kubuntu LoCo team can be set up? ovidiu-florin has started a Kubuntu Romania LoCo Team, but the Ubuntu LoCo Team says Kubuntu is just Ubuntu with KDE and does not like it
[11:32] <czajkowski> we've not done flavours before they fall under locoteams as far as I know
[11:38] <czajkowski> <--- off to catch a plane
[11:42] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: I wonder why there would be separate loco for Kubuntu
[11:43] <Tm_T> Ubuntu loco isn't for the particular flavour but the whole community
[11:48] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: actually maybe I should react on the mailing list (:
[11:55] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, you should
[11:56] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: anyway, the kubuntu and ubuntu folks can work in their separate ways even without separate loco
[12:44] <czajkowski> Tm_T: smartboyhw what mailing list is this ?
[12:44] <smartboyhw> czajkowski, if you are asking about the Kubuntu Romania stuff<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:42] <ovidiu-florin> hello world
[18:43] <ovidiu-florin> where can I put in a request for a kubuntu-ro mail list?
[18:43] <ovidiu-florin> for the Romanian Kubuntu community?
[18:45] <czajkowski><EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[18:46] <czajkowski> perhaps


[12:07] <\sh> cause I'm not working anymore for bertelsmann ,-)
[12:14] <pef> good night !
[12:14] <Soneras> hey, I hope I won't read any potter spoilers here the coming days / weeks (might not get to read it right away)... ;)
[12:15] <Riddell> Soneras: just don't read RMS's blog
[12:15] <Soneras> heh, I'l lstay away from any blog for some time, then.
[12:17] <Soneras> well i'm off for today. g'night
[12:36] <tvo> Riddell: I summarized what I did to build the package on the wiki
[12:36] <tvo> could you quickly scan through them and comment if I forgot something very important?
[01:24] <Riddell> tvo: sudo pbuilder build *.deb  shouldn't that be .dsc?
[01:25] <Riddell> tvo: looks good otherwise
[01:25] <tvo> Riddell: yes you're right I put the wrong thing in the wiki
[01:32] <seth_k> why not use pdebuild instead of sudo pbuilder build?
[01:33] <tvo> seth_k: if it's easier, probably because I did not yet read about it :)
[01:33] <seth_k> i dunno... geek points, maybe ;)
[01:33] <tvo> seth_k: if it's more difficult, then because it's more difficult ;)
[01:34] <seth_k> shorter to type, and will invoke sudo for you after it runs some checks
[01:34] <seth_k> 6 of one, half a dozen of the other I suppose ;)
[01:35] <Riddell> http://jriddell.org/diary/index.php?p=43  harry potter non-spoiler
[01:35] <Riddell> couldn't make out a word Joanne was reading so I can't spoil it for anyone
[01:44] <tvo> Riddell: status report sent :) i'm going to sleep
[01:44] <tvo> also sent a mail to armin
[01:44] <tvo> night
[01:44] <Riddell> tvo: night
[07:18] <venda> African greetings
[09:33] <pef> hi
[03:59] <Riddell> ouch
[04:09] <Mez> we got svn up and running and work's started onm katapult
[04:14] <Riddell> Mez: coo
[04:14] <Riddell> Mez: cool
[04:14] <Mez> what do you think about moving it's config over to kcontrol?
[04:56] <\sh> what can I do to compile qt stuff again I can't sit here and do something else...
[04:57] <\sh> apt-get source xorg
[05:39] <pef> wow
[05:39] <pef> it becomes very hard to package something with the libxrender issue
[06:13] <tvo> Riddell: I added a little paragraph about scons+bksys to KubuntuPackagingGuide ;-)
[06:15] <pef> for a package where important files are missing (like .pm files for a perl module) in changelog, should put medium as priority ? the package is useless without theses files
[06:33] <\sh> hmm...sebastian build xft
[06:58] <\sh> ok...qt is building now...with the new b-d for glu
[06:58] <Riddell> sh: send me a debdiff and I'll upload a new qt
[06:58] <\sh> riddell: sure :) I need something to do...
[06:59] <\sh> hmm...what mysqlclient version should we include? default is now here 10
[06:59] <\sh> is 14 usable?
[06:59] <Riddell> default is 10? isn't it 12?
[07:00] <\sh> w8 stopping build...lets have a closer look what pbuilder has to say
[07:01] <\sh> E: Package libmysqlclient-dev has no installation candidate -> Considering libmysqlclient10-dev to satisfy the dependency
[07:02] <\sh> and 12 is there
[07:03] <\sh> hardwire it to 12?
[07:04] <\sh> lets see what it needs *g*
[08:01] <\sh> Riddell: via mail?
[08:11] <\sh> Riddell: mail is on its way...have fun for upload
[10:54] <\sh> Riddell: i386 build
[10:58] <Riddell> woo!
[11:03] <\sh> powerpc build
[11:16] <Riddell> woo woo!
[11:17] <tvo> Riddell: http://arminstraub.de/browse.php?page=programs_kiolocate&lang=en :)
[11:22] <\sh> riddell: something special for kdelibs?
[11:24] <\sh> and ia64 is also done *strike* ;)
[11:27] <\sh> checking kdelibs4
[11:54] <lamont> Riddell: ping
[11:54] <\sh> I hope riddell is in a pub or something like that :)
[12:00] <Riddell> lamont: hi
[12:00] <\sh> well..the pubs closing to early in uk ;)
[12:01] <Riddell> \sh: no, only England
[12:01] <\sh> riddell: really? you're in scotland?
[12:02] <Riddell> \sh: certainly am
[12:02] <lamont> apparently kdelibs needs some love to be installable again... updated build-deps would be cool, so that amd64/hppa/sparc don't accidentally build against old stuff
[12:02] <\sh> it needs to be kicked
[12:02] <\sh> aehm rebuild
[12:02] <\sh> no changes to b-ds
[12:02] <\sh> checked it ;)