[12:39] <mdz> anyone gotten qemu -initrd to actually work?  doesn't seem to for me
[12:39] <mdz> Linux doesn't find the initramfs
[12:41] <jbailey> mdz: The cpio files are sensitive to cruft on the end whereas cramfs wasn't, so you might be running into a bug on that.  If it's causing you grief, it's possible to include the initramfs into the actual vmlinuz file.
[12:43] <mdz> jbailey: oh? how?
[12:44] <jbailey> You stuff it into the ELF binary as an extra section.
[12:44] <mdz> is there a tool to do that?
[12:47] <mdz> hmm
[12:47] <mdz> bad gzip magic numbers, says the kernel
[12:47] <mdz> gzip magic is at the beginning of the file, no?
[12:47] <jbailey> Yes, first three bytes
[12:47] <jbailey> (I'm still looking for the instructions)
[12:48] <jbailey> That's what we get on ia64 from initramfs' too.
[12:48] <jbailey> Reminds me: lamont *poke* reminder about ia64 access. =)
[12:57] <mdz> hmm, http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2005-01/msg00255.html
[01:00] <jbailey> mdz: Ah, interesting.
[01:27] <jbailey> Hmm,  objcopy -O elf64-powerpc --add-section=.init.ramfs=bar vmlinux seems to create an empty section for me.
[01:34] <jdong> so while it's chugging away, can anyone explain what the "doesn't install cleanly on breezy" part means?
[01:43] <lamont> jbailey: poking duly noted.
[01:47] <nomed> just a Q ... what should generate the /dev/input/mice ?
[01:47] <jdong> the hid drivers seem to do it here
[01:55] <Chipzz> jdong: you are seeing things I'm not :P
[01:56] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/firefox/1.4.99+1.5rc2.dfsg-1ubuntu1/
[01:56] <jdong> Chipzz: archive.ubuntu.com mirror only
[01:56] <jdong> yeah, and it failed on Dapper too
[01:56] <jdong> still going on Breezy
[01:57] <zul> someone ping me or something
[01:57] <lamont> zul: huh?
[01:57] <zul> lamont: my nick was highlighted was highlighte in the tab
[01:58] <zul> never mind
[01:58] <lamont> zul: that just seemed like a good way to ping you is all. :-)
[01:58] <zul> *grumble*
[02:00] <jdong> zul: DOS
[02:00] <jdong> zul: DOS
[02:00] <jdong> zul: DOS
[02:00] <jdong> zul: DOS
[02:00] <jdong> just kidding :)
[02:00] <lamont> jdong: it's DoS, not DOS
[02:00] <lamont> DOS is some 80's OS.. :-)
[02:00] <jdong> EXCUUUUUUUSE ME FOR BEING LAZY WITH THE CAPS KEY :)
[02:01] <lamont> LOL
[02:01] <jdong> Isn't that the terminal thingie ;)
[02:01] <jdong> anyone know how long it'll be before ooo 2.0 packages in Dapper?
[02:01] <jdong> I know doko's hosting his own packages for it
[02:04] <lamont> jdong: oo.o2 was in breezy, so it should already be in dapper...
[02:05] <jdong> I meant final
[02:05] <jdong> breezy still has a late beta
[02:06] <jdong> which exhibits the later-stage bugs from OOo's bug tracker
[02:06] <jbailey> lamont: thanks. =)
[02:06] <lamont> I imagine it has things ahead of it in doko's queue is all
[02:07] <jdong> mmkay
[02:25] <jdong> OMFG Firefox built on Breezy!
[02:26] <zakame> 1.5?
[02:26] <jdong> yep
[02:26] <jdong> Dapper's
[02:26] <zakame> wow
[02:27] <jbailey> jdong: Are you testing this to torture the poor backports people? =)
[02:27] <jdong> jbailey: naw, I'm testing it for myself, this is definitely not backports material
[02:27] <jdong> jbailey: I currently run a hacked/diverted mozilla.org binary of 1.5, so anything's better than that!
[02:28] <jbailey> Why do you bother?  Does it have anything worthwhile other than svg?
[02:28] <jdong> much faster
[02:28] <tseng> jbailey: "the webpage says its faster"
[02:28] <jdong> it is indeed faster
[02:28] <jdong> Breezy ships with the slowest firefox ever
[02:28] <tseng> which is true if you go back and forward 100 times in a row
[02:28] <jdong> not just that
[02:28] <jdong> general rendering speeds
[02:29] <jdong> Even for the Ubuntuforums, I clearly see rendering speed improvements
[02:29] <jbailey> The only time I want to do that, I usually also find myself wishing it wouldn't wipe out the contents of my forms.
[02:29] <jbailey> I've learned. =)
[02:30] <jdong> oh yeah, it's great
[02:30] <jdong> faster
[02:30] <jdong> just like official binaries
[02:30] <jdong> still has a few bugs
[02:30] <jdong> and still called Deer Park
[02:30] <jdong> and mozilla.org still thinks it's beta 2
[02:30] <jdong> but nevertheless it's an improvement
[02:31] <jdong> like I said before, definitely not backports material
[02:31] <jbailey> Hmm, looks like it hasn't built for ppc yet.
[02:31] <jdong> jbailey: fails on Dapper, apparently
[02:32] <jdong> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/firefox/1.4.99+1.5rc2.dfsg-1ubuntu1/
[02:32] <jdong> pretty brutal
[02:32] <jbailey> Bad build dep
[02:32] <jbailey> gtk2xtbin.h:44:27: error: X11/Intrinsic.h: No such file or directory
[02:33] <jdong> gtk2xtbin.h:44:27: error: X11/Intrinsic.h: No such file or directory
[02:33] <jdong> you beat me to it
[02:33] <jdong> and yeah, Dapper is undergoing some X transition stuff
[02:34] <daniels> it's nothing to do with the X packaging
[02:34] <daniels> it's all about whatever has gtk2xtbin.h (presumably firefox) not build-depending on libxt-dev
[02:35] <daniels> this hasn't changed from my side, so presumably something indirectly depended on it in breezy, so it just worked
[02:35] <jdong> it's indeed in Firefox
[02:35] <daniels> easy fix if someone with more bandwidth than me wants to try it
[02:36] <jbailey> As much as that sounds like more fun than doing symbol comparisons... =)
[02:38] <crimsun> elmo: please sync tau from Sid (overriding Ubuntu changes), thanks
[02:40] <elmo> crimsun: done
[02:40] <crimsun> elmo: thank you
[02:41] <LaserJock> jdong: is there presently any way to make backports that require changing the source package available?
[02:41] <jdong> LaserJock: nope
[02:42] <jdong> LaserJock: a mailing list thread has just been started about that
[02:42] <LaserJock> jdong: on what list?
[02:42] <jdong> LaserJock<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:44] <mgalvin> jdong: trac from dapper works just fine on breezy, just needs to be rebuilt, in case anyone is interested, i "backported" (really just rebuilt) it the other day
[02:44] <jdong> mgalvin: cool, and I was just about to e-mail elmo about clamav too :)
[02:47] <LaserJock> jdong: hmm, that would be good. I have one package that would really benefit from a backport but I think  there are some lib name changes from breezy to dapper that would make it unable to get in now
[02:48] <jdong> LaserJock: exactly
[02:57] <mojo> is that possible if we breaks up the gnome-games into many components like Debian did before? so when users choose to remove a game using 'Add Applcation', it will makes more sense when that game is removed not whole pack.
[03:13] <crimsun> daniels: Readding libxt-dev to B-D allows it to compile successfully on amd64 at least.
[03:13] <crimsun> daniels: ("it" being firefox)
[03:14] <daniels> sounds about right
[03:20] <jbailey> crimsun: Are you a main uploader?  It might be worth just fixing.
[03:20] <crimsun> jbailey: I don't have main privileges, no.
[03:54] <jdong> aah out of things to backport....
[03:54] <jdong> feeling... very... restless...
[03:54] <jdong> (this isn't helping the stereotypical image of Backporters, is it?)
[03:56] <infinity> Which image is that?  Crack-addled? :)
[03:56] <jdong> lol
[03:56] <jdong> it's been a while since I've heard that :)
[03:56] <jdong> last time was in some mailing list.... in the Warty days
[03:57] <jdong> reckless, bleeding-edge, representation of Gentoo/Nitro filtration in Ubuntu :)
[03:59] <jdong> ooh rkhunter
[04:06] <jdong> elmo: are you around?
[04:06] <jdong> elmo: just wondering when the backports binary packages would start building... haven't seen any evidence of buildage yet
[04:07] <jdong> mv,
[04:07] <jdong> nvm
[04:07] <jdong> started seeing some
[04:09] <jdong> there seems to be some gtk 2.0.0 wackyness at work
[04:10] <jdong> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
[04:10] <jdong> what causes that?
[04:30] <crimsun> elmo: please sync tapiir from Sid (ok to drop Ubuntu changes), thanks
[04:31] <jdong> crimsun: that's already been requested earlier today
[04:32] <jdong> never mind
[04:32] <jdong> sorry
[04:32] <jdong> dyslexic moment
[06:09] <highvoltage> sorry for bothering here, is the 2.4 kernel supported in breezy?
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> ... no.
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> no it is not
[06:13] <daniels> (nor in hoary, nor in warty)
[06:14] <HrdwrBoB> err: package crack-smoker depends on linux-2.4
[06:16] <desrt> W: Unable to locate package crack-smoker
[06:16] <desrt> man
[06:16] <desrt> you got me excited there
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[06:17] <Keybuk> morning peeps
[06:35] <siggen> Hi ..
[06:38] <highvoltage> HrdwrBoB, daniels: thanks
[06:56] <Keybuk> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/351091
[06:56] <Keybuk> ^ waaaaaaaaaah
[07:00] <Keybuk> greg-kh is a very bad man
[07:03] <lifeless> ...
[07:05] <Lathiat> Keybuk: are they needed by external drivers?
[07:05] <Keybuk> Lathiat: they'd only be needed by external non-GPL drivers for PCI devices
[07:05] <fabbione> Lathiat: mostlikely yes
[07:05] <Keybuk> (ie. all of them)
[07:05] <Lathiat> Keybuk: right
[07:05] <Lathiat> thats what i was thinking
[07:05] <Lathiat> that sucks
[07:05] <Keybuk> he's just being scary, and isn't really submitting that patch
[07:06] <Keybuk> just making a point
[07:06] <Lathiat> yeh
[07:06] <Keybuk> greg-kh is very firmly anti-binary-driver
[07:06] <Lathiat> the whole
[07:06] <Lathiat> GPL non-GPL linking thing
[07:06] <Lathiat> is there any actual sensible discussion on it?
[07:06] <Keybuk> lots
[07:06] <Lathiat> everyones opinion seems to differ :)
[07:06] <Keybuk> no consensus
[07:07] <Keybuk> personally I don't believe the GPL can cover runtime linking because there's no copying involved, and I don't see how it's a derivative work either
[07:07] <Keybuk> but that's not the opinion of (e.g.) the FSF and Kernel guys
[07:07] <Lathiat> right
[07:08] <Lathiat> i assume the argument is
[07:08] <Lathiat> their 'combined'
[07:08] <Keybuk> and I tend to agree with the "binary drivers, bad" opinion too
[07:08] <Lathiat> and so its 'derivative'
[07:08] <Lathiat> right?
[07:08] <Lathiat> dynamic linking seems to be a big stretch of that tho
[07:08] <Keybuk> except I think the right time to pull the rug on them is when we have the market share, and if we dropped support for ATI and nVidia cards (etc.) then they'd lose half their target market so they'll be forced to play the game out way
[07:08] <Lathiat> and i do wonder what the definition of derivative is
[07:08] <Lathiat> got any urls?
[07:08] <jamesh> Keybuk: there are potentially issues when you distribute both halves though (kernel + binary driver)
[07:08] <Lathiat> Keybuk: right, exactly
[07:08] <jamesh> (assuming the copyright holders want to go after you)
[07:08] <Lathiat> atm we need to try hard to get people in
[07:09] <Lathiat> not try to push them away
[07:09] <Lathiat> sure it'd be great if the whole world was free and open source etc
[07:09] <Lathiat> but you can't just expect the world to jump ship, if it'l ever happen
[07:09] <Keybuk> jamesh: imo. only if you distribute the halves actually linked together
[07:09] <Keybuk> we distribute them unlinked
[07:09] <Lathiat> Keybuk: mmm i noticed that
[07:09] <Lathiat> Keybuk: so is that to get around that part of it?
[07:09] <Keybuk> and the user links them (well, their computer's dynamic link loader) when they start it
[07:10] <Keybuk> Lathiat: no, I mean we distribute (e.g.) the libc and dpkg unlinked
[07:10] <Keybuk> libc is a shared library format with a bunch of entry points
[07:10] <Keybuk> dpkg is a shared binary format with a bunch of unresolved symbols
[07:10] <Lathiat> oh, right
[07:10] <Keybuk> it's the dynamic link loader that actually connects the two together, in the memory of the computer, and throws away the connections again afterwards
[07:11] <Keybuk> I don't see how that's any different from what we do with non-GPL kernel modules, we link them together at boot time in a tmpfs (memory of the computer) which gets thrown away on shutdown
[07:11] <Keybuk> and yet one is apparently GPL-illegal, and ther other GPL-legal
[07:11] <jamesh> Keybuk: depends on what the judge believes.  Of course, this is all hypothetical until a kernel dev starts trying to sue for infringements
[07:11] <Keybuk> jamesh: they have been sueing for a while
[07:12] <Lathiat> Keybuk: well, isnt it often a bit different tho?
[07:12] <Lathiat> like our restricted modules links stuff on boot
[07:12] <Lathiat> but others distribute the complete kernel module?
[07:12] <jamesh> Keybuk: I've seen the iptables guys sue for not distributing source to iptables
[07:12] <Lathiat> does that have extra stuff included?
[07:12] <jamesh> Keybuk: I haven't seen them sue for distributing kernel + nvidia/ati drivers
[07:13] <Keybuk> jamesh: you think our lrm-manager thing happened by accident? :)
[07:13] <jamesh> lrm-manager?
[07:13] <Keybuk> jamesh: the thing that links the nvidia/ati drivers when you boot your machine
[07:13] <Keybuk> /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/volatile, a tmpfs containing drivers linked to the kernel on boot
[08:02] <dholbach> good morning
[08:03] <rob1> hi dholbach
[08:03] <dholbach> hi rob1
[08:19] <dholbach> has anybody seen whiprush on irc lately?
[08:25] <Keybuk> he was last online about a week ago
[08:26] <dholbach> hm, i see
[08:26] <dholbach> thanks for the info
[08:29] <Keybuk> he was last online on the forums ~8 hours ago
[08:30] <dholbach> and he was kind enough to deal with me messing with the hug-day dates :)
[08:30] <dholbach> (on the fridge)
[08:31] <Keybuk> yeah, LWN still have the wrong dates though
[08:32] <dholbach> hrm, oh never mind - we have enough bugs for a whole hug week
[09:58] <Kinnison> Morning
[09:59] <marilize> Kinnison: morning
[09:59] <ajmitch> hi Kinnison, marilize
[10:00] <Kinnison> ajm.
[10:01] <marilize> hi
[10:03] <Kinnison> aww
[10:03] <Kinnison> only a few months to the next conference
[10:04] <marilize> Kinnison: :) long time
[10:05] <Treenaks> is it Hug Day again?
[10:05] <marilize> heh
[10:07] <fabbione> hey Kinnison
[10:07] <\sh> Treenaks: thursday
[10:07] <fabbione> hey marilize
[10:07] <Treenaks> \sh: no, that's Bug Day :)
[10:15] <\sh> Treenaks: it's dholbach hug day :=
[10:15] <mvo> hug day!
[10:15] <marilize> Fabbione: hey fabio!
[10:15] <\sh> mvo: can u have a look to apt :) debtags upgrade segfaults because of new libstdc++ love and needs some hands on apt :) or should we wait?
[10:15] <highvolt1ge> marilize: hi there. in the office today? can I come grab some breezy CD's?
[10:15] <mvo> \sh: it's just a recompile with a soname change, right?
[10:15] <\sh> mvo: dokos cxx love :)
[10:15] <\sh> mvo: yes
[10:15] <mvo> \sh: oki, I'll merge other stuff that breaks the abi in this case and upload today, thanks
[10:15] <\sh> mvo: just ran into it yesterday when the new debtags autosync was done...it breaks (dist-)upgrades
[10:15] <ajmitch> yet another apt abi change?
[10:15] <marilize> hi, yes i'm here :)
[10:15] <\sh> ajmitch: new libstdc++ read dokos announcement a couple of days ago
[10:15] <dholbach> ajmitch: don't complain, mvo will surely bring us some shiny new crack with the ABI change :)
[10:15] <mvo> ajmitch: just the abi, not the api. it's _so_ easy to break the abi in c++
[10:15] <dholbach> mvo: how about ddtp? :)
[10:15] <mvo> dholbach: yeah! needs translations on the server though :/
[10:15] <ajmitch> \sh: yes, I read that
[10:15] <ajmitch> mvo: I was just kidding, libapt has a complex enough soname anyway :)
[10:15] <fabbione> Kamion: do we have awk or sed in d-i?
[10:15] <mvo> haha, that's true :)
[10:15] <fabbione> (or busybox...)
[10:16] <\sh> mvo: include a bit torrent client into apt...apt-torrent fetch breezy ; apt-torrent share breezy ,)
[10:16] <seb128> Diziet: "rmdir: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/extensions/*/uninstall: Aucun fichier ou rpertoire de ce type" (No such file or directory)
[10:16] <seb128> Diziet: when updating to 1.5rc2 this morning
[10:17] <sivang> hi all
[10:35] <seb128> Diziet: you around?
[10:52] <pitti> Good morning
[10:53] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[10:55] <sivang> pitti: Morning!
[10:55] <sivang> rehi ajmitch
[10:55] <pitti> Hi ajmitch, hi sivang
[11:05] <dholbach> hey pitti
[11:05] <pitti> dholbach: Hi Daniel!
[11:07] <seb128> hi pitti
[11:07] <pitti> Hey seb128
[11:33] <fabbione> dum dum dum dum
[11:33] <fabbione> check_md5 /mirrors/ubuntu-md5/pool/main/d/debconf/debconf_1.4.59ubuntu1_all.deb.md5
[11:33] <fabbione> Processing debconf: OK.
[11:42] <\sh> elmo: please sync kmymoney2 from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok
[11:44] <Diziet> seb128: Hello.  What can I do for you ?
[11:44] <seb128> Diziet: hi
[11:44] <seb128> $ epiphany
[11:44] <seb128> epiphany: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkembedmoz.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[11:45] <seb128> Diziet: your firefox just broke every single GNOME part using firefox :)
[11:45] <Kamion> fabbione: busybox has sed, but we don't build its awk applet in the udeb config
[11:45] <seb128> Diziet: I'm rebuilding it, any chance you forgot to ship some files?
[11:45] <Diziet> Ah, I knew it was too good to be true.
[11:46] <Diziet> Do you know whether Debian experimental's firefox comes with the embedding support ?
[11:46] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, is it doable to build awk?
[11:46] <seb128> according to a dpkg -c on their deb, no
[11:47] <seb128> Diziet: but Debian build everything with mozilla, they don't even have a firefox-dev package
[11:47] <fabbione> Kamion: otherwise i will look into other solutions.. no big deal
[11:49] <Diziet> seb128: Right.  Well, yes, it's quite likely that I've accidentally dropped something in this area.
[11:50] <seb128> Diziet: so probably something you want to fix with the next upload, thanks :)
[11:51] <seb128> Diziet: you can try to run yelp devhelp epiphany-browser gnome-app-install to figure if your package is fixed :)
[11:51] <Diziet> I'll see what I can do.  Should I look at Debian's mozilla.deb to see what we're missing ?
[11:51] <Kamion> fabbione: I think awk's probably too big for Debian to build in busybox, and I'd like to sync with them ultimately
[11:51] <Diziet> Or is there some documentation somewhere ?  (ha ha)
[11:51] <seb128> Diziet: dh_install --list-missing to your firefox build tree should say what we are missing, no?
[11:51] <Kamion> fabbione: we can build it into the initramfs config though
[11:51] <fabbione> Kamion: yup.. that's ok with me
[11:51] <fabbione> nah
[11:51] <fabbione> no need to
[11:51] <Kamion> fabbione: are you talking about udeb or initramfs?
[11:51] <fabbione> udeb
[11:52] <Diziet> seb128: That assumes that the filenames and structure haven't changed between 1.0 and 1.5beta.
[11:52] <fabbione> basically the md5 client checker thingy might need awk
[11:52] <fabbione> but i can use other commands to achieve the same
[11:52] <fabbione> that's why it's not a big issue
[11:52] <fabbione> awk makes it simpler.. that's all
[11:52] <seb128> Diziet: hum? --list-missing will list what is installed by the make install and not shipped with the package
[11:52] <infinity> awk makes everything simpler.
[11:53] <seb128> Diziet: epiphany-browser works fine with firefox 1.5 for sure, other distro have it. That's just a matter to put the missing files to the deb
[11:54] <Diziet> seb128: What I need to know is what the files are, though.  I can't just take everything that's in `make install' but not in the .debs into the main .deb because it should perhaps go into one of the others.
[11:54] <Diziet> So in my ignorance I'm hoping that there will be some way to tell other than guessing.
[11:55] <dholbach> debdiff-ing old<->new packages might help
[11:55] <seb128> Diziet: compare with the 1.0.7 deb, that's probably a couple of file with gtkembedmoz in the name
[11:55] <infinity> debdiff is your friend.
[11:55] <infinity> Wow, I'm full of pointless one-liners tonight.
[11:55] <Diziet> dholbash, seb128: Thanks, right.  That's what I meant by `guessing'.
[11:56] <seb128> Diziet: I don't know firefox neither, so I can just guess ... :)
[11:56] <seb128> libgtkembedmoz.so should be shipped at least :)
[11:56] <seb128> for other files I don't know :/
[11:57] <Diziet> seb128: Well, I haven't taken a look at this issue yet.  If I do and it doesn't look clear I may come back and ask lots of difficult questions :-).
[11:57] <seb128> Diziet: feel free, epiphany upstream is quite responsive on IRC, I can bounce questions here :)
[11:58] <seb128> s/here/there/
[12:00] <Diziet> OK.  Thanks for letting me know, anyway.
[12:09] <seb128> Diziet: ok, according to epiphany upstream firefox should not built staticly
[12:13] <Diziet> seb128: You mean they want it without the configure options `--enable-static --disable-shared' ?
[12:13] <seb128> Diziet: correct
[12:13] <Diziet> debian/rules only does that on mips.  I have no idea why but it's in Debian's diff too.
[12:13] <seb128> Debian doesn't build anything with firefox
[12:13] <seb128> they don't care, they can build it staticly
[12:14] <seb128> the don't build mozilla this way :)
[12:14] <Diziet> So `it should not be built statically' _if you want to embed it_.
[12:14] <seb128> right
[12:14] <seb128> which we want
 but gtkmozembed depends on things like the xpcom, which in a static build don't exist
 not just xpcom, many other libs too, gklayout etc
[12:14] <Diziet> mozilla-firefox (1.0+dfsg.1-5) unstable; urgency=low
[12:15] <Diziet>   * debian/rules: Don't compile statically on mips and mipsel, since it's
[12:15] <Diziet> ifneq ($(DEB_BUILD_ARCH),mipsel)
[12:15] <Diziet>         CONFIGURE_OPTIONS += --enable-static --disable-shared
[12:15] <seb128> yeah, I know
[12:15] <Diziet> Oh, I was wrong.  We build statically _not_ on mips.
[12:15] <seb128> right
[12:15] <Diziet> See what it says in the changelog for
[12:15] <seb128> sorry I didn't parse correctly what you said before
[12:15] <Diziet> mozilla-firefox (1.0+dfsg.1-3) experimental; urgency=low
[12:16] <seb128> we build it staticly atm
[12:16] <Diziet> Do we know whether that's true ?
[12:16] <Diziet> And, also, if we build it statically now, how did it work in breezy ?
[12:16] <seb128> we didn't use --enable-static
[12:17] <Diziet> Oh, yes, that's commented out.
[12:17] <seb128> mozilla-firefox (1.0+dfsg.1-3) may be true, but that's not an option for us since we use gtkembedmoz
[12:17] <Diziet> Sorry about that, that was just a mistake by me then.
[12:17] <seb128> np
[12:18] <Diziet> I was definitely intending to keep all of our patches that I didn't deliberately decide to throw away.  I must have dropped that one in the middle of a patch conflict in debian/rules.
[12:18] <Diziet> I'll reinstate it and also test with epiphany.
[12:18] <seb128> thanks!
[12:19] <Diziet> NP, thank you.
[12:28] <slomo> Diziet: you are the firefox guy? you broke epiphany, galeon and everything else using firefox... you need to build libgtkembedmoz.so
[12:29] <dholbach> slomo: if you read the backlog... :)
[12:29] <slomo> oh ok... nm
[12:32] <sivang> should I expect interesting problems with Flight 1 ?
[12:33] <Keybuk> yes, and feel free to share them with us :)
[12:33] <dholbach> didnt the announce answer that already? :)
[12:33] <Keybuk> ignore the boring problems
[12:33] <sivang> dholbach: hmm, u-d ml?
[12:33] <seb128> slomo: we spoke about that on this chan for half an hour
[12:33] <sivang> Keybuk: ok, I will :)
[12:33] <dholbach> or u-a, might be u-d-a too
[12:34] <Keybuk> you can try out a package for me later if you want a /really/ interesting problem :)
[12:34] <Keybuk> kernel consistently panics at boot when it runs "udevplug" :-/
[12:35] <sivang> Keybuk: after I had installed dapper?
[12:36] <sivang> Keybuk: sorry again for that, I am watching closely since
[12:37] <Keybuk> heh, you sent rather a lot of them
[12:37] <slomo> Diziet: sorry if i was a bit harsh...
[12:39] <sivang> Keybuk: yeah, I know. I deserved that :)
[12:41] <seb128> slomo: usually you can guess than such bug are noticed quickly and beeing worked
[12:46] <jdong> seb128: would that also count Dapper's panic-on-pcmcia thing?
[12:47] <seb128> dunno about this one
[12:47] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=93361
[12:48] <seb128> that probably doesn't happen to everybody
[12:48] <seb128> better to open a bug
[12:53] <sivang> weird, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/dapper-desktop-plan/+status gives me "orry, you don't have permission to access this page." error, linked from JaneW 's email to u-d about the specs
[12:55] <seb128> you don't have to edit the status of this spec
[12:55] <seb128> that's correct that you don't have the permission
[12:57] <sivang> seb128: how can I just see the status she meant as an example?
[12:57] <seb128> ?
[12:58] <seb128> if you have a spec assigned to you, you can change it
[12:58] <seb128> if you don't, you don't need the example
[12:58] <sivang> seb128: there must have been a reason why she sent that as an example, no?
[12:59] <seb128> example of URL
[12:59] <seb128> just change the name of the spec to match the one you want to change
[01:00] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, I will do that - thanks!
[01:00] <seb128> np
[01:00] <seb128> you have some spec assigned to you?
[01:03] <sivang> seb128: yes
[01:15] <TheMuso> c
[01:17] <seb128> Diziet: is that normal than firefox-dev is empty?
[01:20] <seb128> $ dpkg -c firefox-dev_1.0.7-0ubuntu20_i386.deb | wc -l
[01:20] <seb128> 2705
[01:20] <Diziet> You mean `did you know that ...'.  HTH.  :-)
[01:21] <seb128> that's rather a "doh, I just noticed it's empty" :)
[01:21] <seb128> so pointing it :)
[01:21] <Diziet> Indeed, thank you :-).
[01:21] <seb128> you're welcome
[01:22] <seb128> out of the gtkembedmoz files seem to be here when built without the static
[01:22] <seb128> but epiphany doesn't start due to ABI changes
[01:22] <seb128> which is fine, I just need to rebuild it (was expecting that), but for that we need a firefox-dev :)
[01:38] <seb128> Diziet: removing the static and using dh_install -pfirefox-dev is enough to make epiphany (and probably other GNOME stuff) happy after a rebuild
[01:38] <seb128> just FYI
[01:39] <jbailey> Ah, hey.  That's why my browser won't start.
[01:39] <HiddenWolf> go lynx. :)
[01:39] <jbailey> I had just figured that it was something to do with it being morning and me being tired and that it would solve itself when I woke up more. =)
[01:39] <Keybuk> anyone running 2.6.15 who doesn't mind trying something for me after saving any files they have open?
[01:40] <seb128> jbailey: hey :)
[01:40] <mvo> Keybuk: depends, but yeah
[01:40] <Keybuk> "depends" ?
[01:40] <jbailey> mvo: rm -rf ....
[01:40] <mvo> Keybuk: I won't run jbailey command :)
[01:40] <Keybuk> for uevent in $(find /sys -name uevent); do echo "add" > uevent; done
[01:41] <Keybuk> might be worth doing that from a console/vt
[01:41] <seb128> $ cat uevent
[01:41] <seb128> add
[01:41] <Keybuk> and change that last uevent to $uevent :)
[01:41] <mvo> oh, let me save my work first
[01:41] <seb128> with a sudo better :)
[01:41] <mvo> and bzr push it to a save place :)
[01:41] <Keybuk> it probably won't trash your disk
[01:43] <HiddenWolf> *probably*
[01:43] <seb128> Keybuk: then?
[01:43] <Keybuk> seb128: did it do anything scary?
[01:43] <seb128> no
[01:43] <mvo> runing, finished
[01:43] <seb128> my cpu monitor jumped for a few sec
[01:44] <seb128> and no change out of this
[01:44] <Keybuk> no kernel panics?
[01:44] <seb128> no
[01:44] <Keybuk> running 2.6.15-3 ?
[01:44] <mvo> loads of "already locaded" messages in syslog
[01:44] <mvo> yes
[01:44] <seb128> 2.6.15-3-k7
[01:44] <mvo>  2.6.15-3-amd64-k8
[01:44] <seb128> /var/log/messages has a several "...: already loaded"
[01:45] <jbailey> Sweet!
[01:45] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:45] <Keybuk> makes my kernel panic :(
[01:45] <jbailey> Keybuk: I thought that compat interface had gone away in 2.6.15?
[01:45] <seb128> disappointed that the boxes didn't crash? :p
[01:45] <Keybuk> jbailey: which compat interface?
[01:46] <seb128> Keybuk: Sucks to be you :p
[01:46] <jbailey> Keybuk: /sbin/hotplug
[01:46] <Keybuk> jbailey: no ... isn't going away for a while (from the kernel side)
[01:46] <jbailey> Keybuk: I would've thought we'd need the newer udev for the uevent tickling to show up anything at all.
[01:47] <Keybuk> uevent tickling just causes the uevent to get sent again
[01:47] <Keybuk> so results in both a netlink event and a /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug fork
[01:47] <Keybuk> in breezy udevd does listen to the netlink socket
[01:50] <jbailey> Proof that SVG is worthwhile: http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/svgtetris/svgtetris.svg
[01:51] <\sh> elmo: please sync kwave from debian unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped
[01:52] <pitti> jbailey: heh, nice
[01:54] <Diziet> seb128: Thanks for that.  I'm not sure what happened to dh_install -pfirefox-dev (but the debian/rules was the worst bit).
[01:55] <seb128> np
[01:55] <seb128> if you could do an upload which fix that today that would be great :)
[01:55] <Diziet> Sure, I will definitely do that.
[01:55] <seb128> nice
[01:56] <Diziet> It'll be based on rc3.
[01:58] <pitti> Diziet: 1.5 works pretty well here (amd64)
[01:58] <pitti> Diziet: ok, it kills all language-support packages, but it works :)
[01:59] <Diziet> Good.
[01:59] <Diziet> Yes, the language-support packages have an unfortunate Conflicts.  I'm not sure why that's there.  Maybe just to make the languages be updated :-).
[01:59] <pitti> right
[02:00] <seb128> pitti: speaking about language pack, what about rolling new one, evolution is still not translated due to the domain change
[02:01] <pitti> seb128: hmmmmnngg no Rosetta export
[02:01] <pitti> seb128: I get a daily cron mail about the missing tarball
[02:01] <seb128> feel free to kick carlos :)
[02:01] <seb128> carlos: what about rosetta/translation tarballs?
[02:01] <pitti> I mean, I can go the old skool way and build them from the buildds
[02:01] <mvo> seb128: we need a new python-gnome2-extra as well (rebuild against ff1.5), right?
[02:01] <seb128> mvo: yeah, I'll take care of the transition
[02:02] <seb128> mvo: we basically need epiphany-browser, yelp, devhelp, galeon, gnome-python-extras
[02:02] <mvo> thanks!
[02:02] <seb128> np
[02:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: finally got cdebconf keyboard widget working \o/
[02:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hooray
[02:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: for some reason, dlsym(RTLD_NEXT, ...) didn't cut it, so I had to explicitly dlopen the newt frontend.
[02:34] <Znarl> telnet ubuntu.mirrors.tds.net 873
[02:34] <Znarl> Opps, sorry.
[02:39] <fabbione> *cough*
[02:39] <fabbione> no actually
[02:39] <fabbione> you better tell them to change port ;)
[02:39] <ogra> :
[02:39] <ogra> )
[02:39] <\sh> lol
[02:40] <Znarl> Yes, they don't want any stranger using their rsync public port on their mirror.
[02:59] <\sh> cool...I can't debuild anything anymore :)
[03:00] <\sh> because debhelper is uninstallable ,)
[03:04] <_pef> \sh: so how upload a new version of debhelper ? :]
[03:04] <\sh> _pef: it's  unmet dep of po-dephelper..only a matter of time :)
[03:05] <\sh> po-debconf i mean
[03:06] <Keybuk> nothing's uninstallable if you shove it hard enough
[03:06] <Treenaks> ooh, breaky codes :)
[03:08] <sivang> nice, so we are going to have OOo able to read MS's docs if they go ahead and nicely release the spces hopefully
[03:08] <sivang> Znarl: lol
[03:10] <\sh> Keybuk: well...right now I have to time to do other things..like wan^h^h^hdrinking coffee..so I'm not in a hurry ;)
[03:11] <\sh> s/have to/have/
[03:11] <_pef> sivang: there is a restriction against GPL programs, isn't it ?
[03:19] <Riddell> who killed imlib1?
[03:22] <seb128> Riddell: Debian
[03:23] <Riddell> time for a main inclusion report for imlib11 I guess
[03:24] <pitti> Riddell: don't bother if it is just a package rename
[03:24] <Riddell> pitti: is it?
[03:25] <pitti> no idea
[03:35] <seb128> Riddell: I've a package of libgpod ready to upload, in case of somebody needs it for KDE no need to duplicate the work, I'll upload this week when they roll a correct tarball
[03:36] <teuf> seb128, s/a correct/an official ;)
[03:37] <seb128> teuf: whatever :p
[03:38] <fabbione> Keybuk: ping?
[03:38] <Keybuk> fabbione: 'sup?
[03:38] <Riddell> seb128: does KDE use it?
[03:38] <seb128> Riddell: according to teuf amarok SVN does
[03:38] <dilinger> interesting
[03:39] <dilinger> a coworker of mine just pointed out that djb is running ubuntu (according to http://cr.yp.to/)
[03:39] <dilinger> i've never heard of him running any form of linux before
[03:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: let's assume somebody hack a box.. and i can mount the disk ro on /target.. i have dpkg available outside.. what can i use, that's 100% safe, to verify that the dpkg database has not been corrupted?
[03:40] <Keybuk> corrupted how?
[03:40] <fabbione> any possible way
[03:40] <fabbione> i would like to know if i can trust the db
[03:40] <Keybuk> there isn't really anything, other than reading the files one by one
[03:40] <fabbione> and if not, how can i rebuild it
[03:41] <Keybuk> you can't
[03:41] <fabbione> perfect
[03:41] <Riddell> seb128: cool
[03:42] <Keybuk> there's not malicious they could do though
[03:42] <Keybuk> nastily make sure your conffile changes are lost
[03:42] <Keybuk> they could stick things in postinst or something, but then if they had root, there's far more entertaining things to do
[03:43] <fabbione> oh yeah i agree
[03:43] <Keybuk> they could fiddle with the .md5sums files to hide other changes on the filesystem
[03:43] <Keybuk> which is pretty much the #1 reason why debsums is useless
[03:43] <fabbione> the major issue for me is: given a package name and an installed release (breezy/dapper...), determine the installed version and do some stuff
[03:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's why i do my checks outside
[03:44] <fabbione> and not from the running system
[03:44] <fabbione> note: and i can mount the disk ro on /target.."
[03:44] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:44] <Keybuk> yeah, intrusion-detection systems live OFF the box they're protecting
[03:44] <fabbione> exactly..
[03:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's server-eyecandy stuff
[03:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: i got the server side almost done (missing a few bits)
[03:45] <fabbione> and i am writing the preliminary client
[03:45] <fabbione> so there are some steps for which i need data from the installed system
[03:45] <fabbione> minimal amount, but still
[03:46] <fabbione> like installed pkgs
[03:46] <fabbione> and their versions
[03:47] <hunger> Keybuk: You could sign the md5sum files with your TPM after the installation is done...
[03:47] <jbailey> backports.ubuntuforums.org seems to go to some guy's blog.  Anyone know if that's expected?  It's the top hit on google for "ubuntu backports"
[03:47] <hunger> Keybuk: The infrastructure for TPM is slowly getting to a point where it can get used for somehting like that.
[03:48] <\sh> jbailey: is it jdong?
[03:48] <Keybuk> hunger: that only tells you there's been an intrusion, not what they changed
[03:49] <jbailey> \sh: It doesn't actually say the owners name on it.  There's a long entry about Chuck Norris if that helps. =)
[03:49] <\sh> jbailey: i mean it could be john dong (backports maintainer)
[03:49] <hunger> Keybuk: Depends on the granularity of the stuff signed:-)
[03:50] <jbailey> \sh: I'm saying I haven't a clue. =) There's no identifying marks on the page, and I know very little about the backports stuff.
[03:50] <hunger> Keybuk: But you are right: If you used the TPM as it is intended, then such a check is obsolete anyway;-)
[03:50] <\sh> hmmm....
[03:50] <hunger> Keybuk: Fortunately that won't happen (soon).
[03:51] <\sh> mez isn't here as well...
[03:52] <hunger> Where do the debsums come from? Are they generated during installation time?
[03:54] <Keybuk> sometimes
[03:54] <Keybuk> they're an unofficial extension, dh_md5sums makes them if you put that in your debian/rules
[03:58] <hunger> Keybuk: So you could get them from a server if there you think there was an intrusion? Doesen't sound too bad then.
[03:59] <jsgotangco> dholbach: you busy?
[03:59] <Keybuk> except if there's an intrusion on the server, you automatically can't trust the md5sums files because they're on the server that was compromised
[04:00] <Treenaks> so you always need an external source of trust for that
[04:00] <raingrove> what's wrong with backports now
[04:00] <raingrove> md5 failed just now
[04:02] <raingrove> it's ok now
[04:03] <Treenaks> what's NOT wrong with backports
[04:15] <pitti> Hi lamont
[04:15] <pitti> moin carlos
[04:15] <carlos> pitti, hi
[04:15] <lamont> morning pitti
[04:15] <ogra> lamont :)
[04:16] <carlos> pitti, about your langpack question...
[04:16] <carlos> pitti, staging is being used to test gina before moving that into production
[04:16] <carlos> so I'm not getting an updated mirror of production
[04:17] <carlos> pitti, anyway, I'm working on the code now
[04:25] <zyga> carlos, pitti: I was supposed to remind you about something
[04:25] <zyga> first langpack for dapper was going to be generated with forced utf8 output to test if anything breaks this way
[04:25] <carlos> I suppose it's related to the .desktop and gettext support?
[04:26] <zyga> as you remember there are memory savings on all 'native' encoding .mo files
[04:26] <zyga> carlos: not this time :-)
[04:26] <carlos> oh, right
[04:26] <carlos> I will implement the needed changes for that now that I'm back with language packs
[04:31] <ogra> lamont, if you find some time, could you start a livefs build for edubuntu ? no hurry
[04:36] <mvo> Kamion: what is the proper procedur for breezy-updates uploads? just upload because they are hand-approved (and debdiffed) anyway?
[04:36] <Diziet> Bah!  The files needed for the Flight 1 jigdo template have already vanished from pool !
[04:38] <Diziet> And where can I find a spec for how to convert a normal hex md5sum into one of those annoying jigdo base64 ones ?  The files are almost certainly in my magicmirror repo but indexed by hex md5sum.
[04:40] <sivang> Diziet: UTSL ?
[04:41] <Diziet> Use The Source Luke.
[04:41] <sivang> Diziet: ah, granted
[04:43] <mdke> what is the reason behind having a different translation freeze for language-packs and non language packs?
[04:43] <lamont> ogra: that'd be ubuntu-base+edubuntu-desktop+edubuntu-live, yes?
[04:44] <ogra> lamont, exactly
[04:44] <pitti> mdke: because updating langpacks does not impact other packages
[04:45] <lamont> ogra: I'll get the changes in today or tomorrow, and then it'll happen
[04:45] <pitti> mdke: but when we upload new application or library debs, it might disturb things
[04:45] <ogra> lamont, thanks, whenever you find time for it ... no hurry yet as i said :)
[04:45] <mdke> pitti, hmm. Is there a case for having ubuntu-docs translations at the later deadline? I don't think they affect other packages
[04:46] <mdke> they use gettext after all
[04:46] <pitti> mdke: certainly
[04:46] <siretart> wow! firefox 1.5 is really fast!
[04:47] <Kamion> mvo: generally just upload, but check with mdz first if it isn't obvious
[04:47] <Keybuk> yeah, start-to-core in 0.1s
[04:47] <mdke> pitti, shall I have a word with mdz about it?
[04:47] <dilinger> siretart: how does its ram usage compare?
[04:47] <pitti> sure
[04:47] <mdke> pitti, cool thanks.
[04:48] <mdke> pitti, that is, unless we can figure out how to get those translations into the langpacks themselves
[04:48] <mvo> Kamion: it's very obvious to me, I'll upload and let mdz know when he is up
[04:48] <raingrove> siretart is there an official ubuntu/debian build for firefox 1.5?
[04:48] <dilinger> raingrove: looks like it's in dapper
[04:48] <raingrove> rc3
[04:48] <raingrove> is it ok if i just add dapper repository and pull the deb?
[04:48] <siretart> dilinger: still too high for my taste
[04:49] <seb128> raingrove: current dapper version is b0rked you don't want to use it
[04:49] <raingrove> just firefox
[04:49] <siretart> raingrove: it breaks with firefox-gnome package, which breaks the translation packages
[04:49] <raingrove> ah..
[04:50] <raingrove> i see. but i am not using any i18n or l10n
[04:52] <seb128> raingrove: current firefox will break anything using firefox if you install it
[04:52] <seb128> raingrove: ie: gnome-app-install, yelp, devhelp, epiphany-browser, galeon
[04:54] <sivang> seb128: is there a bug report?
[04:54] <raingrove> ah. alright thanks
[04:54] <seb128> sivang: no, do we need one for obvious transitions?
[04:54] <sivang> seb128: ah, ok
[04:55] <ogra> seb128, just transition ephy to dillo ... it hasnt that frequent new releases :p
[04:56] <dholbach> seb128: slap him :)
[04:56] <ogra> heh
[04:56] <siretart> hrhr
[04:56] <ogra> :)
[04:56] <dholbach> seb128: he seems to like it :)
[04:56] <seb128> :(
[04:56] <ogra> :p
[05:07] <Diziet> Look you stupid jigdo, I don't want you to stat all 200k files in my magicmirror repo over NFS !
[05:08] <Keybuk> or you burn its car?
[05:09] <Diziet> Something like that.  I _told_ it the files exist, I don't want it to check !
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: that was another country...
[05:09] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, how's the new udev magic coming along?
[05:10] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: it's so fast, I have the next release of udev packaged already and the time police are at my door
[05:10] <Diziet> At this rate it might be quicker for me to download the whole iso.
[05:11] <tepsipakki> is archive.u.c just busy or why can't I update my mirror?
[05:11] <tepsipakki> been like this the whole day
[05:11] <Znarl> archive.u.c or security.archive.u.c?
[05:11] <fabbione> tepsipakki: probably the kernel release
[05:12] <tepsipakki> ok, no prob
[05:12] <HiddenWolf> hm, this is odd
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> I did an update && upgrade, and only the meta-package is getting updated
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> doesn't pull in new kernel.
[05:13] <tepsipakki> znarl: the former
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> ah, nl.archive isn't synced yet.
[05:20] <mdz> Znarl any luck with the us.archive mirror admin?
[05:21] <Znarl> mdz : Yes, I am working on this right now.
[05:41] <sivang> yay , flight 1 is now installed
[05:41] <sivang> so, I have a couple of issues I wonder which of them were already reported
[05:42] <azeem> check the relevant bug tracking systems?
[05:43] <sivang> azeem: do we have a set of bugs that go by the tag "Flight 1" ?
[05:44] <Kamion> no
[05:45] <sivang> Kamion: ok, then I guess it's searching through them the hard way :) (if they all in bugzilla)
[05:50] <sivang> interesting. loggin to my bugzilla account made the epiphany toolbar disappear. I can't reproduce that now, though.
[05:52] <Diziet> How hard would it be to arrange for the files mentioned in jigdo templates not to disappear from the archive ?
[05:52] <Diziet> Actually, come to think of it, distributing the iso but without the sources in pool is probably technically a GPL violation.
[05:53] <Diziet> Not that any of the copyright holders are likely to mind very much, but it's probably best not to set a bad example.
[05:54] <Riddell> all ISOs should have equivalent source ISOs available
[06:00] <Diziet> source isos> Oh yes, there they are, in a subdirectory.
[06:00] <Diziet> That's a way to solve the licence problem but unfortunately for me not my jigdo problem :-).
[06:01] <Kamion> Diziet: the correct answer is to build a hardlinked jigdo snapshot archive, but our mirroring arrangements (chiefly, that the machine on which CD images are built doesn't run a web server) make that excruciatingly difficult to arrange in practice
[06:02] <Kamion> unfortunately
[06:04] <Diziet> hardlinked jigdo snapshot archive> What, that mirrors have to mirror separately ?
[06:04] <Diziet> Or do you just mean to let people download the missing bits from.
[06:04] <Kamion> the latter
[06:05] <siretart> mvo: around?
[06:05] <Kamion> it would involve signalling the archive when each CD image build run *starts* (not finishes), and again when a CD image is purged
[06:06] <siretart> mvo: is it possible that apt does not respect /etc/apt/preferences when fetching source packages?
[06:06] <sivang> Kamion: there a way to get a log of all packages errors from installatoin time? (Flight 1)
[06:06] <Diziet> I managed to win against mkimage's stats but I was still missing a file.  I think the files must have been in the archive while my mirror disk was full, so I never had them.
[06:06] <Kamion> sivang: /var/log/base-config-pkgsel.log
[06:06] <sivang> Kamion: thank you
[06:07] <Diziet> (My magicmirror keeps files for 11 days after they are unused, so otherwise I'd still have them.)
[06:08] <Kamion> Debian have the same problem (although their archive churns less quickly so it's not quite so bad), but they leave a snapshot archive lying around on cdimage.debian.org or somewhere like that that you can get the missing files from
[06:08] <sivang> Kamion: could it be base-config.log.1 instead? ( I can't find the one you mentioned)
[06:08] <Kamion> sivang: no
[06:08] <Diziet> Ideally there would be some fancy program that was both a jigdo reassembler and a BT client.
[06:09] <Kamion> sounds like they've been logrotated out of existed
[06:09] <Kamion> existence
[06:09] <sivang> Kamion: bad, I had a multitude of errors I wanted to report :-(
[06:09] <Kamion> I mean you can look in base-config.log if you like, it *might* have ended up there somehow
[06:10] <sivang> Kamion: I just looked, I couldn't find the errors with fontconf and defoma stuff. Should I file bugs anyways?
[06:11] <Kamion> if you can remember enough details to allow the developer to isolate the problem, sure
[06:11] <sivang> Kamion: ok, I will try
[06:12] <sivang> Kamion: actually having non rotating logs would be something very useful for QA purposes, can something like that bearranged for flight cds, or is this something which I can achive through some other means I am not familiar with?
[06:13] <siretart> hi slomo
[06:13] <slomo> hi siretart
[06:14] <Kamion> sivang: I'm quite surprised they were rotated actually; I didn't know that happened
[06:15] <Kamion> sivang: so, er, not unless somebody finds out what happened to them :)
[06:16] <\sh> hmm
[06:17] <sivang> Kamion: so in general, they should ot rotate on such installations?
[06:17] <\sh> Kamion: flight-1 ... before the reboot to stage 2 there was a fast screen questioning me something...i couldn't read what...
[06:17] <Kamion> sivang: they should not
[06:17] <Kamion> \sh: see the release announcement
[06:18] <sivang> \sh: debconf priority
[06:18] <sivang> \sh: it doesn't let you do anything and it reboots :)
[06:19] <Kamion> in the announcement, I described this issue and explained that it was harmless
[06:20] <\sh> yeah...I thought it was something else...
[06:20] <Kamion> I've also fixed it upstream
[06:22] <\sh> well..i'll file wishlist bugs later ,)
[06:24] <Kamion> \sh: for what?
[06:25] <\sh> Kamion: "Shadow Password On" should be displayed in a popup dialog like the rest of the stage 2 install
[06:25] <\sh> e.g.
[06:26] <Kamion> \sh: no, it shouldn't
[06:26] <Kamion> \sh: at most it should be directed to a log file; but that's being moved into the first stage anyway
[06:26] <Kamion> it's a slight bug that it appears as a line of text, it's true
[06:27] <\sh> Kamion: ok..:)
[06:27] <sivang> Kamion: also, an interesting thing - I dropped my in console rescue mode at first boot for second stage, with a root shell. I had to type exit for it to continue with second stage...
[06:27] <gigc1> hi
[06:27] <sivang> Kamion: *it dropped me
[06:28] <Kamion> sivang: no idea what that could be
[06:28] <\sh> Kamion: I wonder, if we can only install langpacks for gnome for the selected language..right now, we're copying all gnome langpacks it seems
[06:28] <Kamion> \sh: mm, I've known about that for a while; the issue is that they're all in the ship seed
[06:28] <Kamion> well, the cause, anyway
[06:29] <Kamion> archive-copier could possibly be a bit more intelligent about those, although it all starts getting unpleasantly hardcoded
[06:29] <sivang> anyway, heading hime
[06:29] <sivang> home, even
[06:30] <\sh> Kamion: but this would be a nice improvement to the installer...because you don't have any unused packages on the hd...and the time to a complete install is less then now...(if you have a USB drive and a slow internal HD in your laptop)
[06:31] <gigc1> i have question add package on cd .
[06:32] <Kamion> \sh: yes, I agree it would be a useful improvement
[06:33] <\sh> Kamion: but installation is just fine...no errors until now
[06:33] <gigc1> who know add package on cd .
[06:33] <gigc1> heloo
[06:33] <Kamion> that said, to some extent it's desirable the way it is; it means that you can enable other languages without having to download stuff from the net
[06:34] <Kamion> which is pretty much the whole point of the ship seed
[06:34] <Kamion> gigc1: please rephrase your question more clearly
[06:34] <Kamion> this is a development channel
[06:34] <\sh> Kamion: but u can always install them from cd
[06:34] <\sh> if you need them
[06:37] <gigc1> Kamion: how  add/remove  package  on install cd.
[06:37] <Kamion> \sh: the point of the copying step is that you can discard the CD after the first stage; this was a design requirement
[06:37] <Kamion> gigc1: please ask support questions on #ubuntu; thanks
[06:37] <Kamion> or see the FAQ on the web site
[06:40] <\sh> Kamion: sure..but from the logical point of view, it makes more sense to copy the selected language. We don't ask in stage 2 no questions at all. So thinking about that, if the user needs another language he could use the cdrom or the inet.
[06:41] <Kamion> I'm just saying that there are arguments both ways, that's all. I'm aware of the arguments you're presenting (and don't necessarily disagree).
[06:41] <gigc1> Kamion: no , i try ask #ubuntu but i not answer. i test redistribution but i get error apt-step fail . i have recomplie  new package ubuntu-keyring and add replece package ubuntu-keyring  in cd . after i test install .but i get error apt-step fail. i don't understand .
[06:43] <neuralis> gigc1: this channel is for ubuntu development. for support, please try the forums or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:45] <Kamion> gigc1: if you mean that the installer fails when you modify a CD image, yes, it's currently annoyingly awkward to modify the signed CDs we distribute
[06:45] <Kamion> gigc1: you need to rebuild the debian-installer package with your ubuntu-keyring-udeb, and replace the initrd.gz on the CD, so that the installer knows about your key
[06:46] <Kamion> (put your ubuntu-keyring-udeb in build/localudebs/ in the debian-installer source tree)
[06:46] <\sh> well...but the network doesn't work
[06:46] <Kamion> gigc1: hopefully this will get easier in Ubuntu 6.04; we're probably just going to trust CDs by default so that we don't have to do this signing mess
[06:47] <Kamion> that is, make the installer trust the CD it's installing from, since it clearly has to anyway
[06:49] <seb128> hum
[06:49] <seb128> the daily build page is ugly
[06:50] <\sh> Kamion: sk98lin driver works during install...but not after the first login...driver loaded...leds blinking but no connection....network is ok...I rechecked with this laptop :)
[06:50] <seb128> is somebody working on making debhelper installable again?
[06:51] <\sh> libgcj6 broken dep
[06:51] <seb128> ?
[06:53] <seb128> doko: are you working to fix that?
[06:53] <seb128> oh, already did
[06:53] <\sh> sudo apt-get install debhelper po-debconf gettext intltool-debian libgcj6 gcc-4.0-base
[06:53] <\sh> thats the whole chain
[07:01] <seb128> doko: ping?
[07:05] <gigc1> Kamion:thank you.
[07:55] <Diziet> seb128: I can't get epiphany installed because of the broken locale dependencies, so I can't test it.
[07:56] <Diziet> Do you mind if I upload firefox anyway ? :-)
[07:56] <Diziet> The -dev package is no longer empty ...
[07:56] <seb128> Diziet: I've tried this morning, if you fix the static and -dev package that's fine
[07:56] <seb128> not at all
[07:56] <Diziet> OK.  All of this effort getting Flight 1 installed and it hasn't really let me test it at all.
[07:56] <Diziet> Oh well.
[07:56] <seb128> anyway nothing build atm, so no hurry
[07:56] <Diziet> Oh dear, apt is removing my computer.
[07:57] <Diziet> That's what test installs are for I suppose.
[07:57] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, removing your computer?
[07:57] <seb128> hum, time for dinner, bbl
[07:57] <HiddenWolf> sudo self-destruct --now? ;)
[07:59] <\sh> and something is wrong with my network....at least with the cable
[07:59] <Diziet> apt-get install -f ...    removing / ... please stand by ...
[08:00] <mvo> Diziet: you are using apt?!?
[08:02] <ogra> Diziet, who needs / anyway, all the important stuff is in other dirs ;)
[08:04] <Diziet> mvo: I use apt on installs I don't care about, and installs where I'm trying to have the (how shall we say it) full end-user experience.
[08:05] <sivang> mvo: what are you using ?
[08:05] <mdke> it's all about rpm
[08:06] <mdke> i'll get my coat
[08:06] <ogra> sivang, what should the main apt developer use ?
[08:06] <mvo> sivang: the question should rather be what Diziet normaly uses :P
[08:06] <\sh> mvo is using yast to install packages...I saw it ;)
[08:07] <ogra> lol
[08:07] <mdke> mvo uses gdebi
[08:07] <mdke> :)
[08:07] <mvo> yep, for testing!
[08:07] <Diziet> I usually prefer dpkg-ftp.
[08:07] <sivang> Diziet: serious? I mean, why not using apt normally, and why do you use it on installation you don't care about?
[08:08] <Loevborg> mvo, btw thanks for working on gdebi, that really fills a need
[08:08] <Diziet> Damn, forgot -sa on my -buildpackage.
[08:09] <\sh> sivang: the elite is using emerge...we're only the windows side of linux ,)
[08:09] <ogra> lol
[08:09] <dholbach> Diziet: that makes the uploads faster :)
[08:09] <sivang> \sh: I'll tell that to my roomate. He's a gentoo fanatic :)
[08:09] <Diziet> dholbach: Thank you :-P.
[08:09] <Diziet> sivang: Yes, I'm serious.  But this is a very boring conversation for me now; I've had it so many times :-).  I should write it up.
[08:09] <mvo> Loevborg: thanks, that's appreciated :)
[08:10] <\sh> sivang: i'm a gentoo fanatic too..but only when I have holiday and have a slow computer
[08:10] <ogra> *belly
[08:10] <\sh> ogra: come on...
[08:10] <sivang> Diziet: I've asked seriously out of real interest in improving my ways. Should I not be using apt?
[08:10] <\sh> ogra: u missed the invstors movie today at ISH NOC :)
[08:11] <ogra> \sh, i surely wouldnt have survived this
[08:11] <mvo> sivang: Diziet is the original dpkg author (and dselect, right?). he likes it better than apt
[08:12] <\sh> ogra: I put some ubuntu cds on my desk and went half a day (mostly) out into the cantine and were drinking coffee...I didn't allow them to picture me...but I allowed them to picture the desk :)
[08:12] <ogra> hehe
[08:14] <sivang> mvo: but he implied apt trashes your system, if I read him right :)
[08:14] <Diziet> It can do, yes.
[08:14] <Diziet> dpkg-ftp doesn't but you have to hold its hand quite a bit.
[08:14] <Diziet> Excellent, now it is uploading the .orig.tar.gz and will saturate my uplink for a bit.  That's just what I wanted :-).
[08:15] <sivang> Diziet: do you also do dependency resolution by hand?
[08:15] <ogra> sivang, by foot ;)
[08:16] <Diziet> sivang: No, I do that with dselect.
[08:17] <sivang> Diziet: ok.
[08:18] <ogra> sivang, as i said, by foot ;)
[08:20] <Diziet> Anyway, that's enough for me for today.  See you people tomorrow.
[08:20] <sivang> ogra: what about you?
[08:20] <ogra> apt-get save-my world ;)
[08:21] <sivang> ogra: ok, then with you I'm in a good company :)
[08:21] <Diziet> Goodnight :-).
[08:21] <sivang> Diziet: night!
[08:22] <ogra> night Diziet
[08:22] <mvo> night Diziet
[08:27] <sivang> interesting, my dapper just froze
[08:27] <sivang> and I had to "reset" the machine
[08:27] <mdke> interesting, and also predictable
[08:28] <sivang> mdke: predictable? Breezy wasn't doing that while it was "unstable" , sure X was down for quite some time - but you could alwasy revert to the text consoles :)
[08:29] <HiddenWolf> sivang, my Breezy does that quite regularly while "stable"
[08:29] <mdke> sivang, all unstable distributions are unstable
[08:29] <sivang> HiddenWolf: never did it to me
[08:29] <mdke> hence the name
[08:32] <HiddenWolf> sivang, does here, but I've got no clue why.
[08:37] <mdz> sivang: are you using irqpoll?
[08:37] <sivang> mdz: letm me check, that a kernel module?
[08:37] <mdz> no, it is a kernel parameter
[08:38] <mdz> if you don't know then you aren't using it
[08:39] <sivang> mdz: ah, I can see why tht can cause a problem. (devices polling all the time for any waiting data?)
[08:40] <sivang> mdz: but probably no, I haven't changed anything out of my dist-upgraded dapper
[08:41] <Kamion> mdke: instability generally refers more to package churn than to how well it runs
[08:41] <Kamion> there can often be a bit of the latter, but it's not the main point of the term
[08:42] <mdke> heh
[08:50] <mdz> woo, firefox builds. go Diziet
[08:52] <mdz> or infinity
[08:52] <\sh> now I know what is missing in gnome
[08:53] <\sh> snap to window borders ... like in kwin
[08:59] <mdke> does anyone else keep typing cdimages.u.c only to realise it is without the "s"? pointing that at cdimage.u.c would save me loads of time :D
[09:00] <elmo> mdke: send mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about it
[09:00] <mdke> elmo, if you think it is a realistic idea, sure I will
[09:01] <jdong> it's fairly stable
[09:01] <ompaul> mdke, it is reasonable, and not a bad idea because there must be others doing the same thing
[09:01] <fabbione> jdong: -> bugzilla please
[09:01] <jdong> fabbione: cool, will do :)
[09:01] <fabbione> jdong: assuming no bugs have been already filed
[09:04] <mjg59> jdong: You're too late
[09:04] <mdke> is there a list of current rt requests? To enable people to see if things have already been filed?
[09:04] <mjg59> mdke: There's bugzilla
[09:05] <mdke> mjg59, rt requests are there?
[09:05] <mdke> oh
[09:06] <mdke> sorry bit of confusion there
[09:06] <mdke> i mean the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>requests
[09:06] <elmo> mdke: not publicly, no sorry, but you can assume it hasn't
[09:06] <mdke> elmo, okay thanks
[09:07] <jdong> mjg59: oh? I don't see any rt2570 bugs
[09:07] <jdong> did a few searches
[09:07] <jdong> are you confusing the 2570 with the 2400/2500?
[09:08] <mjg59> jdong: They're derived from the same core
[09:10] <mjg59> jdong: But to answer your question - our 2.6.15 contains rt2570 support
[09:10] <sivang> mdz: what does irqpoll do then? (googling for it brought cryptic kernel develpment threads)
[09:10] <jdong> ok, I'm about to submit
[09:10] <jdong> mjg59: yes, so? Breezy and Hoary both had the PCI versions, so I'm assuming the USB isn't gonna come naturally unless someone says something
[09:11] <fabbione> jdong: hoary and breezy will not get it
[09:11] <fabbione> i am not sure you aware that they are stable release
[09:11] <fabbione> hence no new feature
[09:12] <mjg59> CONFIG_RT2500_USB=m
[09:12] <jdong> mjg59: really?
[09:12] <jdong> fabbione: I know that; I just want it for Dapper
[09:12] <mjg59> jdong: No, I'm lying because it makes me feel better about myself
[09:12] <jdong> mjg59: mmmkay, me happy :)
[09:13] <jdong> fabbione: trust me, I deal a lot with the whole no new features thing ;)
[09:13] <jdong> alright guys, have fun
[09:13] <jdong> I'm gonna take a break
[09:14] <jdong> thanks for reading my mind :)
[09:35] <elmo> Mithrandir: ping?
[09:40] <jcole> tar jxvf /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12.tar.bz2; cd linux-source-2.6.12/
[09:40] <jcole> cp /boot/config-2.6.12-9-386 .config
[09:40] <jcole> echo 'CONFIG_REGPARM=y' >> .config
[09:40] <jcole> sudo make-kpkg kernel_image
[09:40] <jcole> dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.6.12_10.00.Custom_i386.deb
[09:42] <jcole> ^^^ i can't boot that kernel because it doesn't include radi support... does "sudo apt-get install linux-source-2.6.12" include the right ubuntu kernel source??
[09:42] <jcole> s/radi/raid
[09:43] <fabbione> yes the sources are the same that builds the kernel you get from archive
[09:43] <jcole> my stock ubuntu kernel breezy kernel has raid support... how do i get the same sources?
[09:44] <jcole> fabbione: did i do something wrong?
[09:44] <jcole> (last command is actually "sudo dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.6.12_10.00.Custom_i386.deb")
[09:45] <fabbione> jcole: i dunno, but you better ask in #ubuntu
[09:45] <fabbione> this isn't a support channel
[10:22] <mdke> i get an error on dapper when doing "xrdb .Xdefaults" as follows: http://pastebin.com/436508 does anyone know if this might be a bug? the command seems to have succeeded...
[10:23] <YokoZar> Would it be wrong or right of me to turn all of these things: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsabilityWishlist into specs at launchpad?
[10:24] <wasabi_> So how does windows handle monitors so smoothly?
[10:24] <seb128> mdke: that's due to mcpp and known afaik
[10:24] <wasabi_> Ya can just unplug one vga and plug in another, never have to touch refresh rates
[10:25] <fabbione> wasabi: it doesn't always
[10:25] <wasabi_> I've never experienced a problem with 2k and up.
[10:25] <fabbione> i do with XP here
[10:25] <wasabi_> I'd expect at least it to detect at boot, but then screw up on hotswapping.
[10:25] <wasabi_> But I've just never had that happen.
[10:26] <fabbione> that's because it reprobes the hw on each boot
[10:26] <fabbione> something we don't do
[10:26] <Amaranth> if i have a monitor that can do 100Hz at 1024x768 and i plug in one that can only do 70Hz at 1024x768 it doesn't work
[10:26] <wasabi_> hmm.
[10:26] <wasabi_> didn't know that.
[10:26] <wasabi_> Guess i've just never hit that combo.
[10:26] <wasabi_> (so lets reprobe on each boot!)
[10:26] <mdke> seb128, thanks
[10:28] <YokoZar> Is there a reason really old monitors are detected poorly compared to newish ones?
[10:28] <seb128> mdke: np
[10:28] <mjg59> Old monitors don't tend to have useful DDC information
[10:29] <lifeless> mjg59: any word from dell ?
[10:29] <wasabi_> So, again, how does windows handle it? It seems to pretty well.
[10:29] <wasabi_> I mean, you don't have to set it, and it can be made to work with any monitor.
[10:30] <lifeless> wasabi_: old monitors - windows just takes a really low common denominator
[10:30] <wasabi_> hmm
[10:30] <wasabi_> I guess X should be doing this stuff on it's own when it starts, eh?
[10:31] <mjg59> lifeless: No
[10:31] <lifeless> mjg59: :[
[10:32] <lifeless> I don't like us blocking on dell, cause hassling you is the wrong person to hassle.
[10:32] <j^> is there some way to switch on/off powersaving features on external harddisks?
[10:32] <lifeless> waaaah
[10:32] <Amaranth> windows does have a bunch of "drivers" for non-PnP (ddc?) monitors
[10:32] <j^> my firewire disk just went into some powersave state and locks any access to it now.
[10:32] <Amaranth> i'm guessing they all use the same driver but have some ini file that lists what resolutions and such they support
[10:34] <wasabi_> Ahh that's true... now that you mention it.
[10:34] <wasabi_> I remember seeing Plug N Play monitor in the advanced settings, as if it was a driver.
[10:34] <Amaranth> it was
[10:35] <Amaranth> i'm guessing when the PnP driver is selected it does the ddcprobe-at-boot thing
[10:35] <Amaranth> it probably probes when you first tell it to use the driver too, of course
[10:44] <mdz> mvo: I seem to recall you were working on importing apt into bzr sometime recently; how did that go?
[10:45] <mvo> mdz: I have a import ready (with all the cvs history). I'm not sure that it won't conflict with the bzr import from the lanuchpad people though. I need to talk to robert about it I guess
[10:52] <mdz> lifeless: have you and Ian had a chance to chat about automated testing?
[10:53] <lifeless> no, but I'm in the thread on debian-devel
[10:53] <lifeless> Diziet: ping
[10:53] <mdke> i think he gave up for the night
[10:54] <lifeless> mdz: anything in particular you want eyeballed ?
[10:54] <mvo> lifeless: will a bzr baz-import of apt be compatible with the import you do/will do?
[10:54] <mvo> (a baz import I do myself)
[10:54] <lifeless> mvo: we'll be doing a conversion of the baz archives to make the logs a lot nicer
[10:55] <lifeless> which will dovetail to your conversion
[10:55] <lifeless> the only problem is that your conversion won't do the magic needed at this point.
[10:55] <ogra> mdz, i renamed my archive to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/ , is that what you wanted ? or do you plan a dapper branch as well ?
[10:55] <mdz> lifeless: no, just your input on the overall approach and any ideas you have
[10:55] <lifeless> mdz: righto.
[10:56] <mdz> lifeless: would like to have a chat with both of you to run through it, but might be more practical for you and Ian to get together without me given time zones
[10:57] <lifeless> mdz: what are you running at at the moment ?
[10:57] <lifeless> GMT-5 ?
[10:57] <mvo> lifeless: so it won't hurt if I use my own bzr branch right now?
[10:57] <mdz> lifeless: -8
[10:57] <lifeless> mvo: go for it, just convert with the bzr on chinstrap
[10:57] <mvo> ok, thanks
[10:57] <lifeless> mdz: I'm +11 I think ;0
[10:58] <lifeless> and ian is 0
[10:58] <mdz> yep
[10:58] <mdz> the bizarre time triangle
[10:58] <lifeless> Frente!
[10:59] <mdz> New Order
[11:00] <lifeless> Monday, November 21, 2005 at 20:00:00Mon 8:00 PMMon NoonTue 7:00 AM *
[11:00] <lifeless> thats london 2000 la 1200 syd 0700
[11:00] <wasabi_> Odd. Somehow I've got a interface that won't auto up.
[11:00] <wasabi_> By default, after a breezy install.
[11:01] <lifeless> or one hour later
[11:01] <lifeless> I'll mail you guys
[11:01] <mdz> that's next week, and I'm in San Jose
[11:01] <lifeless> on.
[11:01] <lifeless> oh.
[11:01] <lifeless> silly world clock wouldn't let me put in a tz
[11:02] <lifeless> bah, same results :)
[11:02] <lifeless> but I'll remember next time.
[11:05] <ogra> lifeless, sudo apt-get install gworldclock
[11:06] <sivang> lifeless, mdz : are you also discussing this on debian-devel? (I think I read something about it from lifeless)
[11:07] <lifeless> sivang: yes there is also a thread on d-d abot it
[11:08] <sivang> lifeless: should I follow the discussion there if interested, or will you be posting / sending meeting minutes somewhere ubuntu community / wiki / lists ?
[11:09] <lifeless> the meeting mdz and Ian and I have will probably be here or ubuntu-meeting
[11:09] <lifeless> you're welcome to come along
[11:09] <lifeless> and yes, if you have input, jump into the threads, thats why they are on the list ;)
[11:19] <YokoZar> Would it be wrong or right of me to turn all of these things: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsabilityWishlist into specs at launchpad?
[11:19] <mdz> YokoZar: someone was already doing that
[11:19] <YokoZar> mdz: I just added a few within the past few days, should I go ahead and spec those?
[11:20] <mdz> during UBZ
[11:20] <mdz> YokoZar: sure; it might be a good idea to discuss them on ubuntu-devel first
[11:20] <YokoZar> Isn't that what a braindump spec is for?
[11:21] <YokoZar> And I assume you mean the ubuntu-devel mailing list, not chatroom ;)
[11:21] <mdke> if you don't mind spending the time, you can spec anything you like
[11:23] <mdz> YokoZar: no, the spec tracker is not particularly suited for discussion
[11:23] <mdz> YokoZar: and yes, I mean the mailing list
[11:24] <sivang> YokoZar: I am not sure it currently supports mailing back and forth for feedback
[11:24] <mjg59> ogra: What was that funny wireless chipset you had?
[11:24] <YokoZar> Thanks.  Will do.
[11:24] <YokoZar> Hmm, new Wine release today.
[11:24] <mdz> ogra has a funny one?  mine only tells bad puns
[11:24] <YokoZar> I couldn't attend my LUG meeting yesterday to get my key signed, unfortunately
[11:24] <YokoZar> mdz: is there a chance you'll be in the east bay visiting folks Thanksgiving?
[11:25] <sivang> nice, /etc/lsb-release
[11:25] <mdz> YokoZar: no, I won't, but I'll be in San Jose on Monday
[11:25] <ogra> mjg59, mdz, 0000:00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys, A Division of Cisco Systems [AirConn]  INPROCOMM IPN 2220 Wireless LAN Adapter (rev 01)
[11:25] <YokoZar> I think it would be uber-cool to have you sign my key, hehe.  Hmm, San Jose is a bit too far out.  Oh well.
[11:26] <jdong> ogra: whoa.... that's a really weird Linksys...
[11:26] <ogra> yup :)
[11:27] <ogra> no way to get it working ... not even ndiswrapper (no windows 64bit drivers fo this amd64 laptop)
[11:27] <carstenh> mdz: hi, is it possible do implement firewall as a bounty? (pitti told me to ask you)
[11:27] <jdong> ogra: heh, that's not the typical Linksys Broadcom that I'm used to seeing
[11:27] <jdong> ogra: then again, Linksys has been really nasty recently (i.e. WRT54G v5)
[11:28] <mdz> carstenh: a great deal of work was already done as part of the google Summer of Code
[11:29] <YokoZar> Google needs to have a southern hemisphere summer of code
[11:29] <carstenh> mdz: sure, but not (successfully) bountied and there is still some work
[11:31] <mdz> carstenh: oh, was it you who was working on it?
[11:31] <carstenh> yes :)
[11:31] <mdz> ah, of course
[11:31] <carstenh> fine
[11:31] <mdz> that makes more sense then
[11:31] <mdz> send me a proposal via email
[11:32] <carstenh> ok, do you need some screenshots?
[11:32] <carstenh> (then i would first make them)
[11:32] <carstenh> + have to
[11:34] <mjg59> ogra: http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=6559&st=0&p=62758& seems to have an amd64 driver
[11:34] <mjg59> Still not a good solution
[11:35] <ogra> mjg59, this one didnt work, its around for quite some time already ... the ndiswrapper guys told me they only concentrate on broadcom for amd64 for now
[11:35] <YokoZar> mdz: could we talk about Wine for a second?  I read on this ImpiLinux thing http://www.ubuntulinux.org/newsitems/impilinux that there's a goal to have Windows compatibility in that (probably via Codeweavers), but it seems like a more elegant solution would be to have Wine in Ubuntu working smoothly first.
[11:35] <carstenh> mdz: i guess i can send you screenshots how i will look like on your request after the mail. i'll send the mail in some hours. thanks.
[11:36] <YokoZar> Anyway, Wine has a somewhat intransigent release schedule at the moment, but I think we could make another stable release ala 0.9 if we knew the date ahead of time.  Do you know the relevant freeze date yet if I wanted a stable Wine to be in Dapper?
[11:36] <mdke> YokoZar, BreezyReleaseSchedule on the wiki
[11:36] <mdke> whoops
[11:36] <mdke> s/Dapper
[11:36] <ogra> mdke, hehe
[11:37] <jdong> YokoZar: IIRC MOTU is working on a Wine 0.9 import...
[11:37] <YokoZar> jdong: that would be me
[11:37] <jdong> oh, lol
[11:37] <jdong> I've been having two rough days in here :)
[11:37] <ogra> YokoZar, so youre going for motu finally ?
[11:37] <YokoZar> Just need my key signed, yeah
[11:38] <dholbach> YokoZar: are you a member already?
[11:38] <YokoZar> I disappeared off of the internet for a couple months when I moved
[11:38] <Amaranth> i've "just needed my key signed" for about 6 months now :P
[11:38] <ogra> yeah, become a member first ... but this requires a signed gpg key too
[11:38] <YokoZar> Would the 19th of January (upstream version freeze) be the relevant time to have the final Wine release packaged then?
[11:39] <jdong> YokoZar: do Sid packages of 0.9 not work at all?
[11:39] <Amaranth> plus i'm not too interesting in managing a crap load of packages, just my own and a couple python ones i use :)
[11:39] <Amaranth> err, interested
[11:39] <YokoZar> jdong: The winehq ones work better.  Much better, actually
[11:39] <jdong> mmmkay
[11:39] <YokoZar> And they're built against sid and breezy at the moment
[11:39] <crimsun> MOTU is an entire team, Amaranth. None of us really maintain any packages.
[11:40] <jdong> YokoZar: is there really that much work in importing that to Universe?
[11:40] <ogra> YokoZar, re UVF, yes
[11:40] <mdz> YokoZar: we would like to have wine working well in Ubuntu, yes
[11:40] <Amaranth> crimsun: I know, but I really only wanted to join in the beginning so that smeg and pyxdg would be updated in ubuntu ASAP.
[11:40] <YokoZar> It's quite possible there will be a better Wine release sometime between upstream version freeze and beta
[11:41] <ogra> YokoZar, upstream version freeze applies to universe as well this release ....
[11:41] <mdz> YokoZar: I don't think that is a substitute for what Impi want to do, though
[11:41] <Amaranth> and now seb128 makes sure that stuff gets in right away anyway so... :)
[11:41] <ogra> YokoZar, (indeed we can make exceptions, but they are not the general way)
[11:41] <YokoZar> I just want to plan it out ahead of time so I can pitch the idea of another tested release aside from 1.0 to the Wine team ahead of time
[11:42] <jdong> mdz: I think buildd is hating me :)
[11:42] <jdong> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/r/rhythmbox/0.9.1-1ubuntu3~breezy1/rhythmbox_0.9.1-1ubuntu3~breezy1_20051122-0220-i386-failed.gz
[11:42] <jdong> weird failures
[11:42] <jdong> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
[11:42] <jdong> during apt-get build-dep
[11:42] <jdong> several backports packages failed in the same way
[11:43] <Amaranth> i get that when i'm trying to do two dpkg things at once
[11:43] <jdong> Amaranth: makes sense, but what would cause buildd to start doing that for Backports builds?
[11:43] <Amaranth> jdong: It's a conspiracy to close down backports! ;)
[11:43] <jdong> lol
[11:44] <ogra> Amaranth, damned, you discovered it ?
[11:45] <mdz> jdong: interesting.  that's one for lamont or infinity
[11:45] <jdong> alright
[11:45] <YokoZar> Here's an open question ~Wine: right now, it doesn't build on AMD64, but that might change with a version between UVF and some other milestone.  Would that be worth upgrading?
[11:47] <mdz> it depends on the circumstances
[11:48] <ogra> YokoZar, if you dont sell it as a new upstream version, yes :)
[11:48] <ogra> and if its not to intrusive indeed
[11:48] <mdz> Znarl: us.archive seems much better now, thanks
[11:48] <YokoZar> Well, hopefully and ideally, the Wine release to use would contain no regressions vs all previous releases (ie: stable)
[11:49] <Kamion> mdz: considering it's == archive ...
[11:49] <ogra> but even if i am amd64 user, a rocking stable wine for x86 would be more important imho
[11:49] <mdz> Kamion: ah, so it is
[11:49] <mdz> still a great improvement
[11:50] <mdz> a stale mirror is sometimes worse than none at all
[11:50] <mdz> i expect a bunch of US users are going to have massive dapper upgrades today ;-)
[11:51] <Amaranth> whoops, gotta go
[11:52] <mdz> it was quite nice for a while there, very fast
[11:52] <jdong> us.a.u.c was/ (is) also missing breezy-backports
[11:52] <jdong> I got flooded with complaints about that
[11:52] <jdong> and recently has lots of md5sum mismatches
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> couldn't it be that the main archive is used heavily, preventing some mirrors from syncing nicely?
[11:53] <elmo> us.a.u.c is back at archive.u.c
[11:54] <elmo> and will be till it's permanently fixed
[11:54] <elmo> HiddenWolf: no
[11:54] <HiddenWolf> I've had it with nl.a.u.c myself.
[11:54] <YokoZar> elmo: hey, can you remove two packages from the repository for me?
[11:54] <YokoZar> I sent out an email regarding them a while ago (winesetuptk and xwine)
[11:55] <elmo> YokoZar: where did you send mail to?
[11:55] <YokoZar> ubuntu-devel