[02:04] <imgbot> [03:04] <imgbot> [04:09] <imgbot> [04:09] <imgbot> [04:19] <imgbot> [04:19] <imgbot> [05:26] <Mirv> mornings
[05:56] <robru> Mirv: heya. everything's back to normal but there'll probably be lots of failed merges. each time a merge fails you have to investigate the target branch and then make sure ci-train-bot gets added to the right team to gain access to that branch ;-)
[05:57] <Mirv> robru: heya. yes, I read the e-mails, makes sense.
[05:59] <robru> Mirv: cool, have fun!
[06:00] <Mirv> sure!
[06:08] <robru> Mirv: ^^ oh yeah that message means 'job aborted', will clean that up later.
[08:55] <ogra_> argh ... my whole browser history and all open tabs are gone after the latest upgrade
[08:56] <sil2100> ogra_: in vivid?
[08:56] <ogra_> no
[08:56] <sil2100> On RTM?!
[08:56] <ogra_> on my krillin
[08:56] <ogra_> webbrowser-app was upgraded in 173
[08:56] <ogra_> oSoMoN, hey
[08:57] <oSoMoN> ogra_, morning!
[08:57] <ogra_> oSoMoN, looks like all my open tabs and my browser history are gone with the recent rtm upgrade
[08:57] <jibel> I'm on 173, history and open tabs are still there.
[08:58] <oSoMoN> huh, that’s unexpected, let me see if that happens for me (not upgraded my krillin yet)
[08:58] <oSoMoN> ogra_, do you still have files under ~/.local/share/webbrowser-app/ ?
[08:58] <ogra_> i havent seen the ubuntu start page in quite a while :)
[08:59] <ogra_> yep, i do ...
[09:00] <ogra_> should i have a session.json.lock file even with the browser closed ?
[09:01] <ogra_> apart from Cache and cookies.sqlite nothing has a timestamp from today
[09:02] <ogra_> aha
[09:02] <ogra_> removing the .lock file gets me my session back
[09:03] <oSoMoN> ogra_, that’s weird, the lock file is associated to a given PID, did you have a stale webbrowser-app process by any chance?
[09:04] <ogra_> heh, i doubt i can find that out now
[09:04] <oSoMoN> right
[09:04] <ogra_> if there was one it is gone
[09:04] <oSoMoN> let me upgrade my krillin and see if I can observe the same thing
[09:06] <sil2100> ogra_: btw. I just noticed that the cgmanager fix we had deployed for ubuntu-rtm still didn't make it to vivid - does this mean vivid is uneffected by this big bug?
[09:07] <ogra_> sil2100, hmm, it shouldnt
[09:10] <oSoMoN> ogra_, just upgraded, and all is fine, I got my history and open tabs back
[09:11] <Mirv> ^ those two landings are marked as Landed for some reason, while they are not... I'm trying to see whether I could get the status right (and then publish mine)
[09:12] <ogra_> hmm, i have no recent webbrowser-app crash files either ...
[09:14] <Mirv> hmmph, no luck
[09:16] <Mirv> ah, yes, the O column was broken
[09:20] <sil2100> Mirv: the formula was missing?
[09:23] <Mirv> sil2100: yes. apparently nowadays the Train writes manually "Landed" over there (a fix for those pending "Merging..." things?), so because it for some reason had thought they had landed the formula was no longer there
[09:23] <Mirv> uh oh, publish broken for it, anyhow!
[09:23] <Mirv> reconfigured, watch only worked, publish - https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-005-2-publish/52/console
[09:24] <Mirv> oh, hmm, the rsync file looks correct, why the console looks empty then?
[09:25] <Mirv> sil2100: maybe that's the new normal then, additional source packages are not noticed in the publish console log at all?
[09:25] <Mirv> that's ok, the rsync file is useful to check manually anyway
[09:42] <Saviq> Mirv, sorries again, silo 1 all approved!
[09:45] <Mirv> Saviq: ok!
[09:54] <Mirv> pstolowski: you'd need to rebuild the unity8 silo 012 unfortunately since like robru has mentioned there was another unity8 landing (not sure why both were assigned a silo)
[09:56] <Saviq> Mirv, that was expected
[09:57] <pstolowski> Mirv, hey, yeah, I saw the comments. waiting for 03 to land
[09:57] <Mirv> pstolowski: oh, you're correct, why it's in proposed...
[09:59] <Mirv> bzoltan: the oxide landing has now broken things, it will be probably reverted
[10:01] <Mirv> catz!
[10:01] <Mirv> sil2100: ^
[10:01] <Mirv> sil2100: I mean, the oxide landing
[10:02] <Mirv> sil2100: https://lists.canonical.com/archives/vivid-changes/2014-December/002230.html apparently causes now autopkgtest failures, so it would probably need to be reverted
[10:02] <Mirv> hmm, where did pstolowski go...
[10:05] <sil2100> Mirv: revert needed? :)
[10:07] <Mirv> sil2100: yeah, I'm doing one now. but I also forced m&c on 003 since the problem was not related to that landing, so that pstolowski can continue on 012.
[10:08] <sil2100> Is it just oxide? Or multiple components need reverting?
[10:09] <Mirv> sil2100: just oxide. it was a packaging change for SDK / Click chroot needs, but apparently not perfect
[10:31] <bzoltan> Mirv:  what the problem is?
[10:32] <Mirv> bzoltan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oxide-qt/+bug/1399597
[10:32] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1399597 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "The last oxide upload breaks autopkgtests" [Undecided,New]
[10:32] <Mirv> so unity8 etc blocked in -proposed because of those failing autopkgtests, ie failing packages to install
[10:34] <bzoltan> Mirv:  how is that oxide issue? I see a broken environment there. The clonflict works as we planned. But why dpkg thinks that the codecs package is there when it is not???
[10:35] <bzoltan> Mirv:  But good to know that it is not a runtime breakage but an autopkgtest thingy
[10:41] <Mirv> bzoltan: it's apt / installing packages failure. maybe apt gets confused by the complex conflict definitions.
[10:41] <Mirv> so it's not random test failure, it's something that needs a fix (or a revert)
[10:42] <bzoltan> Mirv:  do we have a silo or a PPA with the new oxide, so I could work on it?
[10:43] <Mirv> bzoltan: 003 has the revert, further uploads can be made to try to get the fix done. first it'd be nice to know how to reproduce the problem.
[10:44] <seb128> Mirv, does the revert means going back to not being able to create frameworks env again?
[10:50] <Saviq> Mirv, help... https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/check-publication-migration/71833/console
[10:52] <Saviq> the branch it pushed to looks b0rken
[10:52] <Saviq> lp:~/cmake-extras/latestsnapshot-ubuntu-recup
[10:52] <Saviq> pete-woods, jenkins has no rights to push to lp:cmake-extras :?
[10:52] <pete-woods> Saviq: weird!
[10:53] <Saviq> pete-woods, well, not really weird, there's a "cmake-extras" team that's not part of PS and stuff
[10:53] <pete-woods> Saviq: yeah. that's what I meant was weird
[10:53] <pete-woods> tempted to make it owned by someone else
[10:54] <Saviq> the project is definitely not set up right
[10:54] <Saviq> https://launchpad.net/cmake-extras
[10:54] <pete-woods> Saviq: blame allan :)
[10:54] <Saviq> pete-woods, can you hcange the maintainer to PS PM team
[10:54] <Saviq> pspmteam
[10:55] <pete-woods> Saviq: done
[10:55] <Saviq> pete-woods, and add canonical-product-strategy to the cmake-extras team
[10:56] <pete-woods> jenkins bot just joined the team it seems :)
[10:56] <pete-woods> okay, added canonical-product-strategy
[10:57] <Saviq> pete-woods, thanks, that should sort things out for now
[10:57] <pete-woods> cool
[10:58] <Saviq> sil2100, uh oh, what are the empty commits in https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtmir/trunk ?
[10:58] <Saviq> same in https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtmir/gles
[11:01] <Saviq> looks like the repeated jobs failing to push to cmake-extras trunk resulted in these empty commits
[11:01] <Mirv> seb128: it would mean that, yes... so a fix would be nicer, if someone understands the problem
[11:02] <Mirv> Saviq: that means the new user needs to be added to the team
[11:02] <Saviq> pete-woods, ah, there's a different bot now, "CI Train Bot", it worked before because PS Jenkins Bot was already there
[11:02] <Saviq> Mirv, yeah, added canonical-product-strategy to the team
[11:02] <Saviq> pete-woods, you can drop the explicit membership of PS Jenkins Bot
[11:03] <sil2100> Saviq: it would be best it you added ubuntu-unity to the mir-team members as well
[11:04] <Saviq> sil2100, done, is that the preferred solution now? to add ubuntu-unity to the owner/driver teams?
[11:05] <Saviq> (and not canonical-product-strategy?)
[11:05] <Saviq> pete-woods, ↑
[11:07] <pete-woods> Saviq: I've dropped the jenkins bot
[11:07] <Saviq> Mirv, sil2100, in any case there seems to be a bug or two in the publishing job (see the blank commits at the top of qtmir and qtmir-gles)
[11:07] <Mirv> Saviq: you need this guy http://launchpad.net/~ci-train-bot added to all teams
[11:07] <Saviq> and then there's the temp branch to which the bot supposedly tried to push
[11:08] <pete-woods> Saviq: I'll set the owner / driver to whatever is expected
[11:08] <Mirv> nothing else needs changing
[11:09] <Saviq> Mirv, I'd rather not have a single user to be added, because it might change again ;)
[11:09] <Saviq> ubuntu-unity sounds like a good compromise
[11:09] <Mirv> right, so ci-train-bot to the ubuntu-unity team? why not
[11:09] <Saviq> it's there already
[11:10] <Saviq> and yeah, the publish job is missing "ci-train-bot" in the string where it says it pushed things
[11:13] <Saviq> and then it pushes some random empty commits ;(
[11:13]  * Saviq purges them
[11:25] <Ursinha> sil2100: are you looking into the publisher bug? if not I'll file one so robru can work on it when he's here
[11:25] <sil2100> Ursinha: a bug would be good to have anyway, but I'm briefly looking at it
[11:25] <Ursinha> sil2100: also, were you able to add all the subscriptions necessary to the bot? I can help you with some lp api foo if you want to check that in a more automated way :)
[11:26] <Ursinha> sil2100: I'll file one for you then
[11:26] <sil2100> Ursinha: thanks!
[11:26] <sil2100> :)
[11:28] <Ursinha> Saviq: would you have a way to see the empty commits in those branches you mentioned? I see you might have deleted them already
[11:29] <Ursinha> just so I can add to the bug about the publisher being silly
[11:30] <Saviq> Ursinha, sorry, no, they just said "Resync trunk" and were empty
[11:30] <Saviq> Ursinha, I wanted them gone asap so they don't populate among devs
[11:31] <Ursinha> Saviq: fair enough :) some information is better than none, thanks!
[11:31] <Saviq> Ursinha, should have backed them up before that
[11:31] <Saviq> Ursinha, but really it was just an empty commit by CI Train Bot with "Resync trunk" as the commit message
[11:31] <sil2100> Saviq: do you remember which silo landing caused this?
[11:31] <Saviq> sil2100, 1
[11:32] <Ursinha> Saviq: that's fine, just let me know if that happens again then we can add to the bug, if not fixed yet
[11:32] <sil2100> Thanks
[11:32] <Saviq> sil2100, it tried multiple times because it couldn't push to lp:cmake-extras
[11:33] <Saviq> sil2100, Ursinha, this is what caused it https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/check-publication-migration/71833/console
[11:33] <Saviq> sil2100, Ursinha, ah I know what happened
[11:33] <Saviq> it pushed qtmir and qtmir-gles to trunks on the first try
[11:34] <Saviq> and then noticed that trunks are ahead of what the silo branches were built on
[11:34] <Saviq> so decided it needs to reconcile
[11:34] <Saviq> and so on, and so on
[11:34] <Ursinha> hmm
[11:34] <sil2100> Yeah
[11:34] <Ursinha> thanks Saviq
[11:34] <sil2100> Since now it auto merges and it doesn't fail as normal merge and cleans do
[11:34] <Ursinha> sil2100: it should keep failing
[11:35] <sil2100> Ursinha: it should keep failing but not try to push branches that already got pushed
[11:35] <Saviq> this is a rather corner case
[11:35] <Ursinha> sil2100: I mean, the auto merge should happen only if it can be merged, there's no point forcing a merge that wouldn't happen before (am I overlooking something?)
[11:35] <Saviq> where it couldn't push to the project's trunk
[11:35] <Ursinha> Saviq: I'm yet to find something landing-related that's not a corner case :)
[11:35] <sil2100> Ursinha: well, this should be fixed in such a way that it should register which merges it succeeded with and not try to push those again
[11:36] <Ursinha> sil2100: that's a good plan
[11:36] <sil2100> The main problem is that we have no feedback right now
[11:36] <sil2100> So we would also have to add this
[11:36] <sil2100> i.e. in this case it remembers which components succeeded and inform the frontend that some M&C's failed
[11:43] <Ursinha> sil2100: what do you think? bug 1399625
[11:43] <ubot5`> bug 1399625 in CI Train [cu2d] "publisher job is pushing empty commits" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399625
[11:58] <sil2100> Damn, so many things changed in the publisher
[12:00] <sil2100> Ursinha: thanks :)
[12:04] <Ursinha> sil2100: yeah, it was hard to review that branch :) but I have a good idea on what changed if there's something I could help shedding a light on
[12:04] <Ursinha> re. publisher
[12:38] <pstolowski> trainguards may i ask for publishing of silo 12?
[12:39] <Mirv> pstolowski: sure
[12:51] <jgdx> trainguards: hi, can I have spreadsheet perms or can you mark rtm-004 as tested OK "Yes (#10 krillin jgdx)"
[12:53] <Mirv> jgdx: sil2100 could give you rights, but I'll do what you asked anyhow
[12:54] <jgdx> Mirv, thank you.
[13:07] <seb128> jgdx, is #10 a krillin rtm revision?
[13:07] <jgdx> seb128, yes
[13:07] <seb128> weird
[13:07] <seb128> I though we were at 173 on krillin rtm
[13:07] <seb128> those numbers confuse me ;-)
[13:07] <jgdx> used ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09
[13:08] <jibel> seb128, it's the released version, proposed is 173
[13:08] <seb128> jibel, oh ok
[13:09] <seb128> jibel, I though we had promotions are 169
[13:09] <seb128> are->around
[13:09] <seb128> or is that "proposed r169 becomes stable r10"?
[13:09] <jibel> seb128, right, 14.09/10 = 14.09-proposed/10
[13:10] <jibel>  14.09/10 = 14.09-proposed/169
[13:10] <jibel> sorry
[13:10] <seb128> k
[13:10] <jibel> I'm confused too :)
[13:10] <seb128> confusing still ;-)
[13:10] <seb128> thanks
[13:53] <pmcgowan> sil2100, how is silo 16 coming
[13:55] <Saviq> jibel, as you know bits'n'bobs about adt... http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#unity-api
[13:56] <jibel> Saviq, looking
[13:56] <Saviq> looks like unity8 and unity-api are blocked on the two failures
[13:56] <Saviq> jibel, which seems to be a oxideqt-codecs uninstallability issue
[13:57] <Mirv> robru: sil2100: please read through bug #1399597 and hopefully land the Oxide (if ok for everyone) in the US timezone in about 5 hours. the theory is that it'd fix the bug without causing regression for the SDK guys. that bug blocks many vivid proposed->release migrations at the moment, so either a revert or this fix is needed anyhow.
[13:57] <ubot5`> bug 1399597 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "The last oxide upload breaks autopkgtests with a package installation failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1399597
[13:57] <sil2100> pmcgowan: the silo is now built with latest changes, waiting for Ken to appear and do silo testing
[13:58] <Saviq> jibel, oh actually looks that's what Mirv just wrote about
[13:58] <pmcgowan> sil2100, ok I may load it up as well
[13:58] <jibel> Saviq, okay
[13:59] <sil2100> We want to land it today so that it can be widely tested by Monday by everyone
[13:59] <Mirv> Saviq: yes..
[15:15] <sil2100> o/
[15:18] <ogra_> pushy bot !
[15:27] <pmcgowan> jgdx, are you looking at the silo 2 failure
[15:27] <jgdx> pmcgowan, yeah, pushed a fix
[15:27] <pmcgowan> great
[15:28] <pmcgowan> jgdx, you lost silo karma though
[15:29] <jgdx> pmcgowan, oh man, we're keeping score?
[15:29] <pmcgowan> jgdx, we are indeed
[16:04] <sil2100> Ursinha: ah, forgot to ask before lunch - do we have the staging instance up and running already? :)
[16:04] <ogra_> hmm, still no ken :/
[16:06] <Ursinha> sil2100: the citrain one? :) there is one partially working, and I can point you to that so you can have a look :)
[16:06] <Ursinha> sil2100: on bootstack
[16:09] <sil2100> Ursinha: since I suppose I need a way to test my fix before doing a global deployment, and I think preprod won't work anymore since the permission change, right?
[16:10] <kgunn> sil2100: quick theoretical question....if something were merged into our mir0.8 branch, but didn't go thru silo...would it ever hit the image ?
[16:10] <kgunn> or is the image ever only created off source tarballs
[16:10] <kgunn> ....and if someone were to do a rebuild, is that off the tarball or proj branch ?
[16:11] <cjwatson> the image is only ever created based on binaries in the archive, which are only ever created based on source packages
[16:11] <sil2100> kgunn: it won't be in the image until you get trunk released through the silo
[16:11] <kgunn> awesome
[16:11] <kgunn> camako: you won ^
[16:11] <camako> cool
[16:11] <sil2100> kgunn: so if you have that, just prepare a silo with a merge (can be even an empty merge) to get the current trunk released into the archive
[16:12] <Ursinha> sil2100: we need to talk about how the staging instance is going to be, if that is supposed to be really a pre-production and contain MP approved code, it's easier
[16:13] <Ursinha> sil2100: if you want to be able to deploy whatever the hell you want, then I can teach you how to locally deploy with juju and lxc :)
[16:27] <bfiller> sil2100: can you publish ubuntu silo 2 please
[16:29] <sil2100> bfiller: looking!
[16:30] <sil2100> robru: wow, I found an issue in the new publisher
[16:30] <sil2100> robru: you're actually showing all packaging diffs, even for old versions from the PPA
[16:30] <sil2100> robru: so if there were 3 rebuilds of a package in the PPA, the packaging diff is uploaded 3 times
[16:30] <sil2100> robru: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-002-2-publish/
[16:35] <cjwatson> oh thank God, node-mapnik finally built.  so the protobuf transition (with no-change rebuilds of compiz and mir) should land shortly.
[16:40] <sil2100> \o/
[16:48] <Saviq> trainguards, is a set of 4 bugs as seen in row 76 acceptable for a RTM landing? if so, can you please get me a silo ↑?
[16:50] <sil2100> jibel: are we proceeding according to the threshold rules already?
[16:50] <sil2100> Saviq: let me quickly get some answers
[16:51] <Saviq> sil2100, can you assign a silo for line 74 regardless, we'll not build before silo 12 lands
[16:51] <ogra_> sil2100, i dont think we have made the new rules public yet
[16:51] <ogra_> (unless i missed a mail)
[16:52] <sil2100> Saviq: I suppose it's still not public
[16:52] <sil2100> ogra_: pmcgowan mentioned it here so I thought we're already using it
[16:52] <ogra_> sil2100, we dont use anything without telling the developers in advance i hope :P
[16:53]  * sil2100 hopes as well
[16:53] <sil2100> I was out sick for the first 2 days so I could have missed it ;)
[16:54] <ogra_> no, i dont think we have published anything, only discussed it
[16:54] <ogra_> so we cant really use it yet
[16:54] <sil2100> ogra_: especially that we still didn't formally define the 'fix' notion ;)
[16:55] <ogra_> right
[16:55] <sil2100> pmcgowan: hey! I think we can land a translation enablement to ubuntu-rtm, right?
[16:55] <pmcgowan> sil2100, yes is that sebs fix?
[16:55] <sil2100> pmcgowan: since seb128 prepared a sync silo for ubuntu-ui-extras to use langpacks
[16:55] <pmcgowan> yes approved that
[16:56] <sil2100> Oh, right, I digged up the bug number from the original package an now I see
[16:56] <sil2100> Let me modify the landing description
[16:56] <seb128> sil2100, did I copy the wrong bug reference there?
[16:57] <sil2100> seb128: it's all ok, just want it to be in the landing description as well for QA to have better access to it
[16:58] <seb128> sil2100, I put it as a comment
[16:58] <seb128> but ok ;-)
[16:58] <seb128> noted for next time
[16:58] <seb128> sil2100, thanks for fixing it!
[16:59] <sil2100> seb128: no worries, not a big issue, it was my bad in overall
[16:59] <sil2100> ogra_: and still no ken :(
[16:59] <ogra_> yeah :(
[16:59] <ogra_> and two other system-settings silos too
[16:59] <seb128> sil2100, I think Ken is off today?
[17:00] <seb128> that's what Jonas said earlier
[17:00] <ogra_> assuming these need to go first :/
[17:01] <sil2100> Not sure, I think the order is not strict
[17:01] <sil2100> But still, without Ken around we might not make it
[17:01] <sil2100> Not much we can do though
[17:02] <sil2100> ogra_: still in a meeting?
[17:02] <ogra_> on my way
[17:02] <sil2100> plars: ping o/
[17:03] <sil2100> plars: (although the network issues are probably still there and not much CI updates will be available)
[17:12] <plars> sil2100: sorry, had to step away for a few, yeah, not much I can do until the move is complete
[17:18] <bfiller> sil2100: we had a couple of MR's land yesterday in silo (maybe day before) in camera-app that seem to be in trunk but the MR's have not been updated to merged
[17:19] <bfiller> sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/camera-app/camera-app-multi_selection/+merge/243385 and https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/camera-app/camera-app-self_timer/+merge/243389
[17:28] <robru> bfiller: hm, that's odd. those look merged in trunk with the old creds from before citrain went down
[17:29] <bfiller> robru: yeah, for some reason the MR's didn't get updated it seems
[17:35] <robru> bfiller: tough to say what could have caused that. citrain doesn't have any code that tells lp to mark merges as merged, lp just does that automatically when the commits appear in trunk. so it seems more like a bug in lp than in the train. I don't see any harm in marking them merged manually
[17:35] <bfiller> robru: ack
[17:52] <bfiller> robru: needs silos for 77 and 78 when you have a chance
[17:54] <robru> bfiller: alright, vivid 7, rtm 11
[17:55] <bfiller> robru: cheers
[17:55] <robru> bfiller: you're welcome
[17:59] <cjwatson> bfiller,robru: hm, that's curious, let me see if I can find logs about that
[18:01] <bfiller> cjwatson, robru: seems what was merged was a few revs back than the latest in the MR's. Not sure why that happened, possibly I didn't rebuild the silo
[18:01] <bfiller> could be my fault
[18:01] <robru> bfiller: if you didn't rebuild the silo that means those latest revs are also not in distro ;-)
[18:02] <bfiller> robru: I know
[18:03] <bfiller> we haven't released a click as we don't have a way to only release it for vivid, so only the debs will be wrong and they are not really used. but'll we;ll correct on the next upload
[18:04] <cjwatson> bfiller,robru: Those weren't actually the branches that were merged.
[18:04] <cjwatson> [2014-12-04 22:16:00,480: INFO/PoolWorker-2] Merge detected: lp:~artmello/camera-app/camera-app-multi_selection => lp:camera-app
[18:05] <cjwatson> [2014-12-04 22:16:00,497: INFO/PoolWorker-2] lp:~artmello/camera-app/camera-app-multi_selection now Merged.
[18:05] <cjwatson> [2014-12-04 22:16:00,526: INFO/PoolWorker-2] Merge detected: lp:~artmello/camera-app/camera-app-self_timer => lp:camera-app
[18:05] <cjwatson> [2014-12-04 22:16:00,533: INFO/PoolWorker-2] lp:~artmello/camera-app/camera-app-self_timer now Merged.
[18:05] <cjwatson> Not the same owner.
[18:05] <robru> bfiller: I guess you merged the pre-superceded MPs then
[18:06] <cjwatson> And if you check out lp:camera-app and run "bzr missing --theirs lp:~fboucault/camera-app/camera-app-multi_selection" and "bzr missing --theirs lp:~fboucault/camera-app/camera-app-self_timer", you can see the commits on those branches that aren't merged.
[18:08] <cjwatson> So yeah, don't mark those as merged manually unless the same textual content was actually merged and you want to effectively abandon whatever different history is on those branches.
[18:19] <bfiller> cjwatson: thanks
[18:23] <pmcgowan> ogra_, sil2100 I ran silo 16 all day, can we have QA check it now
[18:25] <ogra_> pmcgowan, well, we have 3 silos with system-settings ...
[18:25] <ogra_> 16 is the one that hasnt even been set to testing done
[18:25] <pmcgowan> it is now
[18:25] <ogra_> and ken is off today
[18:26] <pmcgowan> its not really a system settings issue, its the nasty powerd events dus eats cpu thing
[18:26] <pmcgowan> dbus
[18:26] <sil2100> pmcgowan: we weren't sure if we can land that, since we wanted to know from Ken if it's good to land before all those other ones
[18:26] <pmcgowan> sil2100, I see, I dont know about ordering them
[18:26] <popey> ooh, is it the one that makes system settings hang after boot?
[18:26] <pmcgowan> yep
[18:26] <popey> s/boot/resume/
[18:26] <popey> oh man
[18:26] <pmcgowan> popey, if it cant land maybe you can run it over the weekend
[18:26] <ogra_> popey, yes, it is that one
[18:27] <popey> sure thing!
[18:27] <ogra_> ToyKeeper ran it over night for one night already
[18:27] <popey> ok, I'll install now and not reboot this weekend.
[18:27] <popey> thanks chaps!
[18:27] <pmcgowan> ogra_, sil2100 ok so I guess wait for ken on monday and more results
[18:28] <ogra_> yeah :(
[18:28] <popey> got a link to it?
[18:28] <ogra_> i wish we could have an image for the weekend testing
[18:28] <pmcgowan> me too
[18:28] <pmcgowan> that was my urgency testing it
[18:28] <ToyKeeper> Oh, silo rtm-16?  It seemed to cut the dbus noise in half and reduce side effects by even more.
[18:28] <ToyKeeper> I only tried it for one night though.
[18:29] <ogra_> yeah
[18:29] <pmcgowan> the silo got tweaked to have a more exact system settings change set
[18:29] <pmcgowan> thats the only change from before
[18:31] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-016
[18:31] <popey> that seems empty?
[18:31] <ogra_> ubuntu-rtm
[18:31] <popey> aha
[18:31] <popey> ta
[18:37] <popey> dpkg: error processing archive powerd_0.16+15.04.20141031.2~rtm-0ubuntu1_armhf.deb (--install): unable to make backup link of `./usr/share/powerd/device_configs/config-default.xml' before installing new version: Invalid cross-device link
[18:37] <popey> is that normal?
[18:45] <popey> ogra_: ^ any ideas?
[18:52] <ogra_> popey, oh, powerd needs to be installed via recovery
[18:52] <popey> oh, how?
[18:52] <popey> boot to recovery, then is there some other magic than just dpkg -i the deb?
[18:59] <popey> ogra_: sorry, I don't know how to install this.
[19:01] <ogra_> popey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/lxc-android-config same process
[19:01] <popey> ta
[19:04] <popey> sh is missing...
[19:05] <ogra_> try /bin/sh
[19:06] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9386061/
[19:06] <popey> ⍨
[19:06] <ogra_> (even though the env command should have set your path properly)
[19:06] <popey> is that okay?
[19:06] <popey> invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/powerd not found.
[19:06] <ogra_> theoretically, yes
[19:07] <popey> so reboot and it should be sane?
[19:07] <ogra_> no
[19:07] <ogra_> the install obviously failed ...
[19:07] <ogra_> iirc davmor2 and jibel have better ways to install such packages
[19:07] <popey> ☹
[19:07] <ogra_> hmm, or was that brendand
[19:08]  * popey wonders if any of them are about
[19:08] <popey> ToyKeeper: how did you install that powerd package when you tested it?
[19:17] <robru> popey: ⍨ is the greatest emoticon ever, how did I not know about this?
[19:17] <popey> hah
[19:23] <dobey> cihelp: does jenkins MP testing run autopkgtests on the proposed change as well?
[19:23] <fginther> dobey, autopkgtests are not executed during MP testing at this time. It is planned in the future.
[19:24] <fginther> dobey, by the way, the rtm chroots are almost ready
[19:24] <fginther> dobey, should have the branch added soon
[19:24] <dobey> fginther: ok, thanks
[20:01] <ToyKeeper> popey: Sorry, was in a meeting...  I just installed it via the citrain device-upgrade command.


[20:56] <LucidFox> Ah! There we go.
[20:57] <Tm_T> where we're going?
[20:57] <LucidFox> I was wondering if I could get an Ubuntu member IRC hostmask
[20:57] <bazhang> !member
[20:58] <LucidFox> I am a member!
[20:58] <LucidFox> :)
[20:58] <bazhang> launchpad page?
[20:58] <LucidFox> https://launchpad.net/~sikon
[20:58] <Tm_T> how dare you doubt sikon?! (;)
[20:58]  * LucidFox chuckles
[21:17] <rww> Pici: cloak request ^^^
[21:17] <vish> Pici: nhandler ^^
[21:17] <vish> rww: grr!
[21:17] <vish> ;p
[21:17] <rww> vish: nhandler isn't a group contact ;P
[21:18] <Pici> LucidFox: Do you mind if we replace your wikia cloak?
[21:18] <vish> hmm , then whom did i mix it up with ..
[21:18] <LucidFox> Pici> Go ahead!
[21:19] <rww> vish: he's on the IRC Council, but isn't a GC for some reason I forget. The others are topyl.i, juss.i, and tsimpso.n.
[21:19] <vish> rww: usually i ping 3 folks , been a while since i pinged them :D
[21:19] <Pici> rww: Because hes a staffer.
[21:19] <Pici> LucidFox: Congrats :)
[21:19] <vish> Pici: is always an easy choice :)
[21:19] <LucidFox> Danke!
[21:20] <Pici> vish: and less typing!
[21:20] <rww> Pici: Oh, yeah. Should make him a GC and make him ask himself in-channel to cloak people, imho (:
[21:21] <Pici> LucidFox:
[21:21] <vish> woot!
[21:21] <Pici> LucidFox: I actually missed something, could you please set your account name to lucidfox, otherwise I'll need to request that your cloak be switched to ubuntu/member/sikon
[21:22] <LucidFox> hmmm
[21:22] <Pici> LucidFox: Or I'll just request that, its up to you.
[21:23] <Pici> LucidFox: so?
[21:24] <LucidFox> Pici> Can't change the name, so you'll have to request the cloak changed, I'm afraid
[21:24] <LucidFox> "This user has an active PPA with packages published and may not be renamed."
[21:24] <rww> LucidFox: the nickserv account name, not the launchpad one
[21:24] <LucidFox> Oh
[21:25] <Pici> Again, I can switch the cloak to sikon if thats what you want, but I need to actually get going here and if I don't do it now I'll forget.
[21:25] <Pici> And then the other ircc people will get mad at me.
[21:25] <LucidFox> How do I change my NickServ account name? I tried doing ungroup, and it says
[21:25] <LucidFox> "Nick Sikon is your account name; you may not remove it."
[21:26] <rww> LucidFox: /msg nickserv set accountname newname
[21:26] <rww> where newname is a nick you have grouped to the account already
[21:26] <LucidFox> Aaand done
[21:26] <Pici> yay
[21:26] <Pici> \o


[15:48] <Len-nb> acmeinc, It turns out my Yf's netbook has BT. I am just putting ubuntu DVD in. When I am done, I will try stuff with the US live session.
[15:49] <Len-nb> acmeinc, BTW, the BT stuff in ubuntu for desktops does work.
[15:59] <Len-nb> I was able to connect to a phone and see the pictures on it anyway.
[20:54] <acmeinc> len: Yea, when i loaded xubuntu 12.04, the bluetooth applet was there, BUT, my it couldn't find an adapter.  What is more odd, the applet goes away after I remove the dongle.  So, it recognizes the dongle as a bluetooth adapter (which is why the applet is there in the first place), but it isn't able to recognize it at the same time.   Command line arguements fail as well.  It seems like the support for my specific dongle may have gone away in t
[20:57] <len-dt> acmeinc, Ouch!
[20:57] <len-dt> I would report that as a bug
[20:58] <len-dt> Anything that worked in one version and stops ... sounds like a kernel module problem
[21:02] <acmeinc> will do, but im working on another issue, my kernel freezing issue, which i believe may be due to a recent mobo upgrade, and not ubuntu itself.  even when i went back to 10.04 and 11.04, i encountered freezing almost regularly (5-10 times per day), also causing RAID degradation everytime :(  I'm rma'ing the board, and getting a new, different model.  what happened to gigabyte?  grrr
[21:03] <len-dt> acmeinc, So maybe a MB/usb thing then too.
[21:04] <len-dt> acmeinc, I found the order of my PCI cards made a difference to my stability as well.
[21:04] <acmeinc> perhaps...we'll find out midweek when i get my new board...i may try studio 12.04 at work (i am here now), to see how a older known stable machine works.  coming soon :)
[21:07] <acmeinc> len: could you comment further on order of pci cards?  I
[21:08] <acmeinc> only have one, but would moving between the 1st or 2nd x16 slot make a diff?  Its ATI, with restricted drivers, which again, may be add to instability
[21:10] <len-dt> acmeinc, I have more than one sound card plus an ethernet card.
[21:11] <len-dt> I noticed that the ethernet card was sharing an int with my usb, but also that it was the highest irq (32). So I got xruns during downloads.
[21:13] <len-dt> I have a Delta66 sound card (4 track) as well as an ensonic that I use only for the midi ports. The ensonic  was at a higher irq than the D66. This turned out to be bad too.
[21:14] <acmeinc> ok, so i don't think that would effect me, but good to know
[21:14] <len-dt> Different MB are set up in different ways.
[21:15] <len-dt> I was having problems with system lock up before too. But I think that may have been the video card which is an old tnt2
[21:15] <len-dt> When the screen saver kicks in and is set to anything other than blank, I get hundreds of errors to syslog every second


[02:48] <Firebird8> lo
[10:07] <klepas> quite empty
[01:52] <lapo> hi
[03:12] <klepas> moin
[03:12] <lapo> ciao klepas
[03:13] <klepas> you're off?
[03:14] <lapo> uhm?
[03:14] <klepas> 'ciao'
[03:14] <klepas> commonly used here to say bye
[03:14] <klepas> :)
[03:15] <lapo> nay, ciao is a for of greeting, it works as hi, and bye :-)
[03:16] <lapo> well in italy at least :-)
[03:16] <klepas> is that universal, or regional?
[03:16] <lapo> it is italian
[03:16] <klepas> as here it is essentially exclussive for bye
[03:17] <lapo> it is a general greatings, colloquial
[03:18] <lapo> it derive from venice ancient dialect, it means something like "I'm your slave" actually , you can read it like "hi" and "bye"
[03:19] <lapo> If I teach italian to the whole world I could stop wrecking english :-)
[03:19] <klepas> ;)
[03:20] <klepas> seems confusing
[03:20] <lapo> italian is confusing :-)
[03:20] <klepas> to have such a term being colloquial
[03:20] <klepas> another language that is quite confusing is Chinese
[03:21] <lapo> it became coloquial, nobody knows the actuall meaning


[11:19] <thegladiator> Seveas,let me see . dont think I saw that one
[11:19] <dekela> Can anyone help me with something?
[11:19] <sethk> lightbright, yes, writing over every sector of the disk is very very safe
[11:19] <lightbright> navarone: Ill consider that option, thanks :)
[11:19] <nbound> tristanmike, heh that would work, but i cbf doin it =P
[11:19] <lightbright> navarone: yet I feel the command I used will suffice for now ;)
[11:19] <icyvapor> I need help about compiling a OpenGL program in C
[11:19] <_jason> ubotu, tell dekela about helpme
[11:19] <lightbright> sethk: should I do that more than once?
[11:19] <thegladiator> Seveas, how can I launch it from KDE ? any ideas ?
[11:19] <tristanmike> nbound, cbf?
[11:20] <icyvapor> something wrong with linking the library
[11:20] <thegladiator> Seveas, gnome-keyboard-properties
[11:20] <nbound> tristanmike, cant be ####ed
[11:20] <navarone> GeorgeAScott, are you familiar enuff with ubuntu that you could copy and paste your fstab into  pastebin? fstab is in /etc
[11:20] <dekela> Got my Ubuntu up and running
[11:20] <mcdenyer> hey all i just installed 5.04 and it is completly clean.  i havnt updated it or anything.   im newb and need help upgrading to 510
[11:20] <_jason> ubotu, tell dekela about enter
[11:20] <dekela> Followed most of the wiki to get it done
[11:20] <tristanmike> nbound, bothered?
[11:20] <holotone> why is there a lock icon on my fat32 drive that I just mounted?
[11:20] <lightbright> sethk: do I need to type: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdb1" more than once. like 35 times or something?
[11:20] <dekela> My only mistake was to install expose
[11:20] <_jason> holotone, you don't have permission, read that page and look at the table that is there
[11:20] <dekela> I did metacity --replace as SU and as normal user
[11:20] <mcdenyer> can somone pm me and help me upgrade to 510
[11:20] <GeorgeAScott> this is the first day that i've had it...   i knew archlinux a bit better... tell me where past bin is and i can
[11:20] <lightbright> sethk: why are there some qipe programs that wipe 35 times if once is all thats needed?
[11:20] <tristanmike> nbound, oh well, those are my options, lol :P
[11:20] <nbound> tristanmike, yeah bothered with a capital F
[11:21] <navarone> holotone...the lock icon means that the drive/folder has inherited the permissions from windows
[11:21] <nbound> =P
[11:21] <dekela> Since then my Gnome just wont load only in failsafe mode
[11:21] <thegladiator> Seveas, i open the keyboard menu , but I cant see stick keys there
[11:21] <jenda> Any experience with EasyTag? I'd like to assign file names according to their tags.
[11:21] <_jason> dekela, did you try logging in as a different user?
[11:21] <thegladiator> shud I enable or disable stick key
[11:21] <jnk> lightbright, you overwrite 35 times with non-zero data if you don't want your data to be retrievable by a laboratory
[11:21] <navarone> !pastebin
[11:21] <ubotu> pastebin is probably a site where you can post large texts and screenshots so you don't flood the channel. You can find it at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org
[11:22] <navarone> George^
[11:22] <sethk> lightbright, I can't imagine.  Writing zeroes once is the same as writing zeroes a million times.  There has never been a case of data being recovered from a disk where all the sectors were wiped.
[11:22] <nbound> jnk, not just any non-zero, has to be special combinations
[11:22] <GeorgeAScott> ok
[11:22] <dekela> _jason, I will have to try this out.. But then I loose all my settings
[11:22] <jnk> nbound, yep
[11:22] <sethk> lightbright, now, if you wanted to be totally paranoid, it still makes no sense to write repetatively.  You can write all 1's, then all 0's
[11:22] <_jason> dekela, well that's just for trouble shooting
[11:22] <navarone> GeorgeAScott, when you are done copy the url and paste here so we can visit
[11:22] <sethk> lightbright, but the possibility of recovering the data after writing over it is so small as to be effectively zeroes.
[11:23] <_jason> dekela, you can try renaming the ~/.gnome and ~/.gnome2 directories
[11:23] <Seveas> sethk, absolutely not
[11:23] <sethk> lightbright, I've done this for military projects, so I've studied the issue.
[11:23] <mcdenyer> can someone plz help me updatee to breezy
[11:23] <Seveas> sethk, only after 7 times overwriting with random or alternating bitpatterns that chance is small enough
[11:23] <dekela> _jason, I will try it.. Do you know what gnome failsafe mean? becasue it looks the same as a normal session
[11:23] <sethk> Seveas, believe me, I've taken the media apart and done all the high tech stuff to it.
[11:23] <nbound> sethk, writing a 1 does not = absolute one, in a lab they can tell a wekaer one probly used to be a 0
[11:23] <sethk> Seveas, that's really nonsense.
[11:23] <nbound> weaker*
[11:23] <_jason> dekela, not sure about the specifics
[11:23] <jnk> mcdenyer, won't you just try to update and ask here when something goes wrong?
[11:23] <sethk> nbound, I have seen that theory but I have _never_ seen it in the lab.  never
[11:24] <mcdenyer> jnk i would but i  dont know how to update
[11:24] <holotone> do I have to reboot to reload fstab?
[11:24] <Seveas> sethk, hmm, I've seen that several times, but if you say you did it yourself my words are quite useless :)
[11:24] <nbound> sethk, lol, they can and do use it
[11:24] <GeorgeAScott> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7184
[11:24] <dekela> _jason, Ok.. Thanks a lot I will try your recommendetions
[11:24] <thegladiator> yes holotone
[11:24] <holotone> k, thanks!
[11:24] <sethk> Seveas, with what equipment?  seen in what way?
[11:24] <nbound> sethk, ive never seen my pc run FreeBSD does that mean it cant *rollseyes*
[11:25] <Seveas> sethk, I meant seen it on documentaries and stuff
[11:25] <sethk> nbound, you know quite well that your analogy is meaningless.
[11:25] <sethk> Seveas, well, I've done the actual work.
[11:25] <nbound> sethk, well u say its not true coz uve never seen it
[11:25] <Seveas> sethk, that's why I said 'my words are useless', you actually did the things :)
[11:25] <mcdenyer> can someone give me the link for the 510 upgrade?
[11:25] <navarone> GeorgeAScott, you have no entries in fstab for your windows partitions type !diskmounter and go to the url that ubotu provides. It is a script to add entries to fstab for automounting windows partitions
[11:26] <gnomefreak> ubotu tell mcdenyer about upgrade
[11:26] <Nyven> has anyone done a vpn between 2 ubunto servers ?
[11:26] <sethk> nbound, no, your logic is faulty.  I never said that the fact that I've never seen it means that it doesn't happen.  I said that fact that I've looked for it, using the equipment that is supposed to show it, analyzing the scope traces, and have not seen it.
[11:26] <nbound> sethk, fill ur hard driver up with as much illegal crap as possible, then write over it the way u say... and we'll call the feds... lets see who wins
[11:26] <sethk> nbound, that is very very different.
[11:26] <sethk> nbound, they wouldn't bother, believe me.
[11:26] <GeorgeAScott> !diskmounter
[11:26] <ubotu> diskmounter is, like, totally, to automatically mount your ntfs, fat32 or hfs+ drives, download and read http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/files/diskmounter
[11:27] <sethk> nbound, you think anyone cares that much about my data?
[11:27] <nbound> sethk, i know, but u get the point
[11:27] <GeorgeAScott> thanks navarone
[11:27] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak do i have to use a cd or can i just get it off the net?
[11:27] <nbound> sethk, lets say u had some they did care about... ;)
[11:28] <navarone> George rememebr that ntfs is not supported fully for writing so I would remove any entries to ntfs partitions to avoid the hassle and possible corruption etc
[11:28] <gnomefreak> mcdenyer,  scroll the page you should beable to change hoary with breezy in the sources list
[11:28] <thegladiator> !upgrade
[11:28] <ubotu> The guide to upgrading to breezy (5.10) is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyUpgrade
[11:28] <sethk> nbound, try it.  take some old drives, you probably have some.  write zeroes to them.  pull out the media. look at it under a scope, look for quantum traces, anything you like.  You won't find them.
[11:28] <gnomefreak> thegladiator, hes got it :)
[11:28] <thegladiator> he he :)
[11:28] <thegladiator> he knows it all
[11:29] <nbound> sethk, lets agree to disagree =)
[11:29] <j2daosh> hey everybody
[11:29] <j2daosh> how do i delete stored information about a network server?
[11:29] <joruss> anyone use xvkbd in breezy?
[11:29] <sethk> nbound, if you like.  but if you are seriously curious, give it a try.
[11:29] <GeorgeAScott> i just want to be able to access my media
[11:30] <j2daosh> ip's, usernames, and passwords have been changed but when i try to connect it keeps telling me to enter the old information and it wont accpt it
[11:30] <nbound> sethk, i dont have the equipment.... well nothing other than piles of old hard drives
[11:30] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, media like ? cd / hard disk which one ?
[11:30] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak it says i need to change my repositories or something
[11:30] <_jason> joruss, I have tried it, do you have a particular problem?
[11:30] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak how do  i do that?
[11:30] <sethk> nbound, you probably have a university nearby.  there is always someone at a university that can be talked into looking at this stuff.  they love it.
[11:30] <topyli> GeorgeAScott: you can mount ntfs partitions read-only quite safely
[11:31] <j2daosh> and why does my copy keep dieing when transfering a large file?
[11:31] <joruss> _jason, installed it via apt-get & synaptic.. either way I see it in /usr/X11R6/bin but unable to launch it
[11:31] <gnomefreak> ubotu tell mcdenyer about repositories
[11:31] <nbound> sethk, nearest one is 100+km away =P and i doubt they would have that stuff (its only a regional uni)
[11:31] <GeorgeAScott> media as in music and video files...
[11:32] <gnomefreak> hold that thought ill be right back
[11:32] <navarone> topyli, yes...but he can always comment out or remove entries if it makes him more comfortable..or he has no need for the ntfs partitions to be available
[11:32] <GeorgeAScott> on a seperate drive
[11:32] <_jason> joruss, you can launch it as /usr/X11R6/bin/xvkbd , or you can add /usr/X11R6/bin to your path, or you can create a symlink to that and then place the symlink somewhere in your path
[11:32] <j2daosh> i can copy about a gig and then the dl dies. i wouldn't mind so much if i could resume but i cant so it is constantly taking like an hour for nothing
[11:32] <j2daosh> anyone know a fix for either of those issues?
[11:32] <joruss> tried that..
[11:32] <joruss> didn't work.
[11:32] <Dreamglider> what ports does frostwire use ?
[11:32] <_jason> joruss, which part?
[11:32] <saif> how can i install codes for my mplayer
[11:33] <saif> i try to play movie but its not playing giving me some font error
[11:33] <_jason> saif, install mplayer-fonts
[11:33] <j2daosh> saif, synaptic manager and then search for mplayer codecs
[11:33] <mcdenyer> ubotu tell me how to run ubuntu :)
[11:33] <j2daosh> oh
[11:33] <_jason> ubotu, tell saif about mplayer
[11:33] <j2daosh> well then yeah... do what _jason said
[11:33] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, going by ur post http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7184 ,I dont see any other hard disks !
[11:33] <saif> Ok
[11:33] <redguy> j2daosh: ask better questions: what program are you talking about for example?
[11:34] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, wait...post a fdisk -l result
[11:34] <joruss> _jason, I've created a launcher as /usr/X11R6/bin/xvkbd  when I got to run it it tell ms there's no such file or directory
[11:34] <j2daosh> red... think u got me confuised with someone else... im having a samba issue... not a proggie issue
[11:34] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, goto the terminal , sudo fdisk -l
[11:34] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, and paste bin
[11:34] <alex__> how can i force a screen resolution?
[11:34] <nbound> samba isnt a proggy :S???? =P
[11:34] <_jason> joruss, double check for typos, I jsut did it and it worked
[11:34] <redguy> j2daosh: hrmm, where did you mention samba?
[11:34] <jnk> alex__, maybe by making it the only resolution in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:34] <j2daosh> lol nbound well it is but a major one
[11:35] <redguy> !tell j2daosh about nicktab
[11:35] <joruss> argg.. got it.. fat fingered... damn my sodium intake.
[11:35] <nbound> alex__,  if it wont run that res u need to reconfigure x
[11:35] <j2daosh> redguy, in transfering files back and forth from windows to linux box through network.
[11:35] <luisito> oh sh..!! I didn't know you can drag a window from one workspace to another by dragging the window in the preview!! wow! that's so great!!! :)))
[11:35] <joruss> _jason, thanks for the help,
[11:35] <glick> hey whats the diff between the fstab file and the mtab file?
[11:35] <_jason> joruss, np
[11:35] <alex__> well the max res i can have is 800x600, but in windows i can have 1024x768
[11:35] <joruss> know anything about the fpit drivers?
[11:35] <just1n> can anyone confirm that it is easy to load ubuntu OS on a 2005 laptop, but without removing Windows just yet. I.e. You can switch between the 2 OSes?
[11:35] <joruss> hehe
[11:36] <j2daosh> yeah i know about the autocomplete... works in the terminal too
[11:36] <nbound> alex__, so reconfigure x to allow the higher res... do you want the command?
[11:36] <thegladiator> just1n, yes
[11:36] <alex__> nbound, yes please
[11:36] <redguy> j2daosh: my question is still valid: what program are you talking about? Windows Explorer? smbclient? smb4k?
[11:36] <nbound> !xorg
[11:36] <ubotu> xorg is, like, to reconfigure your xserver, open a terminal and type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"
[11:36] <j2daosh> basically the samba issue is... after about halfway through transfering a large file (5g roughly) is dies
[11:36] <thegladiator> just1n, easy and simple I use that in my dektop though
[11:36] <fusionfox> what was the command to change the apt repositories
[11:36] <thegladiator> !grub
[11:36] <nbound> what ubotu just said =)
[11:36] <ubotu> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GrubHowto or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows or troubleshooting grub: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Troubleshooting
[11:37] <just1n> thanks theglad. I've downloaded the 0.675Gb live CD and am about to install and ttest.
[11:37] <j2daosh> lol the technical specs of samba i am unsure of... i just know i have the most current version installed and it halfway works
[11:37] <redguy> j2daosh: not all filesystems allow files of this size
[11:37] <thegladiator> ubotu was written in python correct?
[11:37] <ubotu> thegladiator: What?
[11:37] <j2daosh> but thats the thing though... i thought maybe that was it... but i had just transfered one not 30 minutes before i started on this one
[11:37] <Seveas> thegladiator, perl
[11:37] <MrRio> thegladiator: erm, some admin tools are, yes
[11:37] <bimberi> thegladiator: perl (i understand)
[11:37] <redguy> thegladiator: I would bet on perl
[11:37] <j2daosh> and that one went through with no issue
[11:37] <GeorgeAScott> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7186
[11:38] <thegladiator> cool
[11:38] <thegladiator> ubotu,  thegladiator about origin
[11:38] <ubotu> thegladiator: Did you get hit by a windmill?
[11:38] <alex__> nbound, did you find it?
[11:38] <thegladiator> he eh
[11:38] <LoPMX> \
[11:38] <navarone> GeorgeAScott,  type "sudo fdisk -l"
[11:39] <alex__> nbound, 1024x768 is listed in xorg.conf
[11:39] <alex__> nbound, but its not listed in the screen resolution changer program
[11:39] <j2daosh> ok... im just gonna let it try one more time and see if it works now... second problem... how do i delete stored infomation (user, passwords, ip's) for my netowrk settings
[11:39] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott, fdisk -l as navarone said
[11:39] <j2daosh> ie - places, network server
[11:39] <Keyseir> _jason, the beta of KMuddy installed fine for me... with the help of auto-apting some more depends.
[11:39] <fusionfox> how do i change the apt sources FILE people cant anyone take 3 secs and answer me!
[11:39] <Keyseir> _jason, :-)
[11:40] <j2daosh> the ip addy of the network has changed but it doesn't allow me to reconfigure... or set a new one and delete the old one either
[11:40] <bimberi> fusionfox: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:40] <_jason> Keyseir, hopefully it isn't too buggy :)
[11:40] <nbound> alex__, i already told u the command, watch what ubotu says
[11:40] <thegladiator> !sources.list
[11:40] <ubotu> To enable Universe and Multiverse see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto - Official sources.lists here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6047 (Breezy) or http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6666 (Dapper) see also !easysource
[11:40] <nbound> !xorg
[11:40] <ubotu> I heard xorg is to reconfigure your xserver, open a terminal and type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"
[11:40] <Keyseir> _jason, Heh, yeah. If it is I'll ask the kmuddy devs about known qt bugs for the stable... heh
[11:40] <thegladiator> fusionfox, read what ubotu says it could u give u some ingiht
[11:41] <MacSlow> ssam, gnomefreak: btw that's the stuff I'm doing and why made all the fuss about breezy2drapper update -> ttp://macslow.mine.nu/cairo-clock-1.jpg http://macslow.mine.nu/cairo-clock-2.jpg
[11:41] <alex__> nbound, ok sorry... i didn't see it
[11:41] <_jason> Keyseir, when I googled, I found some mentions of your error but I tried all the given advice and nothing work.  So it isn't an isolated problem
[11:41] <GeorgeAScott> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/7187
[11:41] <nbound> alex__, no worries =)
[11:41] <kayip> slm
[11:42] <kayip> slmtr
[11:42] <Keyseir> _jason, <nods> I appreciate your looking into it. I'm a bit of a newbie, especially when it comes to dealing with something like bugs that come up when compiling from source.
[11:42] <_jason> Keyseir, can't say I'm too much of an expert, just helpful to have more than one person look at a problem I suppose
[11:42] <Keyseir> _jason, <nods>
[11:42] <alexfava> qualcuno italiano che pu aiutarmi con un problemma sull'hd
[11:42] <Coyctecm> any way to get gnome terminal to open link with single click?
[11:43] <kayip> slm
[11:43] <Seveas> !it
[11:43] <ubotu> Vai su #ubuntu-it o su #kubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie!
[11:43] <glick> hey removable storeage like usb drives and external harddisks, shouldnt the pmount program be trying to mount them?
[11:43] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott,do you know abount mounting disks ?
[11:43] <Seveas> glick, yes
[11:43] <navarone> Hmm...George it looks like windows drive is not first drive on cable...ie slave...I am not sure if that will complicate you booting into windows...Are you able to get into windows ok?
[11:43] <egkamp> since my last update my mouse is almost unusable, is this just me? or are other people finding this a problem (running 5.1)?
[11:43] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott,yes it looks like a slave
[11:44] <Keyseir> _jason, Lol, well I just connected to a random mud with the quickconnect option so I guess it isn't TOOO messed up.
[11:44] <glick> Seveas: for some reason on my system the mount program tries to mount them and i get the follwoing pop up error... mount: cant find /dev/sdb5 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab
[11:44] <Fordprefect> is there anyway to get totem or kaffeine to play mpg or wmv files
[11:44] <_jason> Keyseir, good
[11:44] <_jason> ubotu, tell Fordprefect about multimedia
[11:44] <MrSunshine> humm, anyone had problem with linux locking with gefoce?
[11:44] <Seveas> glick, that's... odd
[11:44] <hermanr__> Unmounting /home is not trivial on Ubuntu
[11:45] <GeorgeAScott> i don't have windows installed... the other drive is just full of files
[11:45] <navarone> MrSunshine, what model Geforce?
[11:45] <Seveas> hermanr__, not if you are logged in :)
[11:45] <Seveas> (as non-root0
[11:45] <MrSunshine> had a gf2 gts in my computer and my linux locked all the time (X did), changed to a tnt2 and it worked fine, got my geforece4 back and thought great now it will work .. and same problem with it as with the gf2 gts
[11:45] <hermanr__> Without a root account, /home will always be busy, until you change your home directory in /etc/passwd
[11:45] <lightbright> sethk: why are there some wipe programs that wipe 35 times if once is all thats needed?
[11:45] <matthewjames> Ompaul: I am still haveing problems, but i think that i need to give myself permission to acces xserver, is that correct?
[11:45] <navarone> George...then just run diskmounter script and drive should be added
[11:45] <GeorgeAScott> i got tired of windows...
[11:45] <thegladiator> GeorgeAScott,just try mounting them ?
[11:45] <MrSunshine> navarone, both gf2 gts and gf4 ti4200
[11:45] <thegladiator> !diskmount
[11:45] <ubotu> thegladiator: What?
[11:45] <ompaul> matthewjames, no, now first off is hotplug there ?
[11:46] <jenda> What version of GTK does Breezy use?
[11:46] <matthewjames> yes, it started
[11:46] <thegladiator> !ntfs
[11:46] <ubotu> I heard ntfs is the filesystem used in Windows 2000 and newer; to automatically mount your NTFS partition: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticallyMountMSWindowsPartitions, or writing to ntfs is risky and only experimental. Reading is OK
[11:46] <Seveas> hermanr__, correct :)
[11:46] <navarone> MrSunshine, I am using Asus v8200 (Geforce3) with no probs (knock wood)
[11:46] <lightbright> sethk: ?
[11:46] <hermanr__> Seveas: Well, duh!  If you want to fsck a file system without rebooting, that is kind of quirky...
[11:46] <jenda> !GTK
[11:46] <ubotu> jenda: Did you get hit by a windmill?
[11:46] <purpleheart_USMC> When I turn on my computer, ubuntu goes through the start up process, then goes to a black screen... but in recovery mode, I can type 'startx' and everything is fine...WHY?
[11:46] <lightbright> Seveas: how can I fix this: WARNING: Your ClamAV installation is OUTDATED!
[11:46] <lightbright>  ?
[11:46] <dabaR> jenda: there is gtk and gtk+
[11:46] <MrSunshine> navarone, never had any probs until like a month ago, does the same in both gentoo and ubuntu
[11:46] <Seveas> hermanr__, true, but a user who wants to do that should now how to enable a proper root account
[11:46] <egkamp> lightbright: wiping once is not enough, it is possible to dismantle a disk and read residual information to see what was there before a single wipe
[11:46] <navarone> thegladiator try !diskmounter
[11:46] <ompaul> matthewjames, now lets try this one you have seen it before >> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg <<
[11:46] <lightbright> egkamp: tell that to sethk
[11:46] <matthewjames> k, brb
[11:46] <Seveas> lightbright, never tried clamav
[11:46] <GeorgeAScott> thanks, i have to go for now.  i will try what you said later
[11:47] <egkamp> opps
[11:47] <thegladiator> yep
[11:47] <gnomefreak> ompaul,he said that didnt work :)
[11:47] <menko> would using the data=writeback on a reiserfs file system break it? I read on that topic that it also works with reiserfs but I'd just like to make sure.
[11:47] <lightbright> egkamp: so I typed: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdb1  now have many times do I need to type that?
[11:47] <jenda> dabaR: Is that 1.x or 2.x?
[11:47] <gnomefreak> <<tried that this am
[11:47] <lightbright> Seveas: what do you use besides clamav?
[11:47] <dabaR> !info gtk+
[11:47] <purpleheart_USMC> Anyone know why i get the black screen?
[11:47] <jnk> lightbright, 1 time is like 100 times here
[11:47] <navarone> MrSunshine, is it visual glitches or random lockups?
[11:47] <lightbright> jnk: here?
[11:47] <Seveas> lightbright, I have no windows machines, so no need for a virus scanner
[11:47] <egkamp> lightbright: way back when i was military, our milspec called for wiping 7 times, but i don't know what the current standard is
[11:48] <jenda> lightbright: No need for antiviri on Ubuntu. And long time no see
[11:48] <lightbright> Seveas: yes but cant you send a virus trhrough email to a wondows user?
[11:48] <ompaul> gnomefreak, he has reinstalled - we now have hotplug
[11:48] <gnomefreak> unless your running a win server
[11:48] <jnk> lightbright, well that's not quite right but if you want to secure delete a partition don't just use zeroes, use a program designed for that
[11:48] <MrSunshine> navarone, random lockups of only X
[11:48] <dabaR> jenda: not sure.
[11:48] <lightbright> jenda: hi :)  but cant you send a virus trhrough email to a windows user?
[11:48] <MrSunshine> EVERYTHING except the mouse stops .. sound etc runs fine
[11:48] <lightbright> jnk: why doesnt the zero's work?
[11:48] <navarone> MrSunshine, do you have binary drivers installed?
[11:48] <purpleheart_USMC> Anyone know why i get the black screen?
[11:48] <Seveas> lightbright, no, the viruses don't infect me so I can't replicate them
[11:48] <jenda> lightbright: Yes, I guess you can, but then it's their AV, that should catch the viri.
[11:49] <deepbeige> excuse me, will Ubuntu run on PowerBook that has a Sonnet G3 upgrade card?
[11:49] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak ok having problems with the reository
[11:49] <deepbeige> *a
[11:49] <MrSunshine> navarone, yes
[11:49] <lightbright> Seveas: so you mean its impossible to send a virus through email from Ubuntu to other ms windows users?
[11:49] <hawking> anyone knows how to setup infrared so that I can send and receive files from my Nokia 6600
[11:49] <MrSunshine> navarone, and no .. with gf2 gts
[11:49] <egkamp> lightbright: all zeros or all ones (or any simple pattern) makes it too easy for disk forenisics to "see" past the wipe
[11:49] <MrSunshine> nvdirver doesnt work for that
[11:49] <gnomefreak> mcdenyer,did you open the sources.list file yet?
[11:49] <redguy> purpleheart_USMC: no
[11:49] <_jason> lightbright, i'm sure if you wanted to and didn't like someone you could...
[11:49] <lightbright> egkamp: how can they see past something that is zero's?
[11:49] <Seveas> lightbright, I don't say that, but it's only possible if you manually send it
[11:49] <purpleheart_USMC> redguy: what should i do?
[11:49] <Seveas> which is just stupid :)
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> Tomorrow the 2.13.5 Gnome tarballs are due.
[11:49] <lightbright> Seveas: ok
[11:49] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak dont even know what that is :)_
[11:50] <navarone> MrSunshine, do you have both cards in same machine?
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  ETA on Gnome 2.13.5 in Dapper?
[11:50] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak lol
[11:50] <lightbright> Seveas: isnt there any virus for Linux?
[11:50] <jnk> lightbright, http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html
[11:50] <egkamp> lightbright: it is more like a chalkboard, where you can see what the previous class has written if you look close
[11:50] <jared_> where can i get the lib for dvd's?
[11:50] <D1> anyone see a "whats new" page for gnome yet?
[11:50] <thegladiator> lightbright, i am coding one
[11:50] <mkyb14> the ati driver is asking me for an install path in the terminal.  where should i be pointing this too??
[11:50] <thegladiator> :/
[11:50] <egkamp> lightbright: you are "thinking digital", but in reality life is analog
[11:50] <_jason> ubotu, tell jared_ about dvd
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  Jan 19 or 20?  (development release should occur on Jan 18, dunno how long the devs will wait to build it for Dapper)
[11:50] <redguy> purpleheart_USMC: look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for errors
[11:50] <Firztspawn> hmmm, is there a known issue with installing breezy and S3 Virge PCI graphics cards?
[11:50] <MrSunshine> navarone, both cards have been in same machine yes
[11:50] <adriyel> which gdesklet applet does Vidalinux use?
[11:50] <adriyel> it looks like the dock for OS X?
[11:50] <purpleheart_USMC> redguy: ty
[11:50] <redguy> purpleheart_USMC: that si lines starting with EE
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> lightbright:  there are several viruses for linux, just they're ineffective if you don't run them as root.
[11:50] <navarone> MrSunshine, do you have both cards in same machine presently?
[11:50] <jenda> thegladiator: I want a copy!!! :)
[11:51] <MrSunshine> had my gf4 borrowed out so used a gf2 gts for a while .. with random lockups, i was hoping it would be fine when i got my gf4 back but hell i was wrong
[11:51] <lightbright> thegladiator: you aree coding what?
[11:51] <gnomefreak> mcdenyer,the instructions are right on that page it says to type sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list and change hoary to breezy than run sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[11:51] <MrSunshine> navarone, no .. 1 at a time :P
[11:51] <lightbright> bluefoxicy: ok
[11:51] <gerald_> when i run swat, nothing happens
[11:51] <thegladiator> jenda, yes everyone will get ...its free ! :[
[11:51] <kasemodz> alright the problem with my wireless is that for some reason it doesn't want to retrieve the ip address. It can scan the access points just not get an ip. Anybody know how to fix it?
[11:51] <MrSunshine> only got one agp port :>
[11:51] <gnomefreak> i lied it says it in 2 different commands i made one :)
[11:51] <Fordprefect> I read those pages and they told me nothing I didn't already know
[11:51] <bluefoxicy> lightbright:  windows viruses won't affect linux and thus can't use it as a hub to spread; you have to intentionally spread e-mail worms.
[11:51] <kasemodz> I eve changed ifconfig mode manged essid
[11:51] <lightbright> egkamp: how can they see past something that is zero's?
[11:51] <thegladiator> lightbright, read ur question just above :)
[11:51] <navarone> MrSunshine, could you c/p your /etc/X11/xorg.conf contents to pastebin?
[11:51] <kasemodz> and it converts to my essid
[11:51] <lightbright> bluefoxicy: ok
[11:51] <kasemodz> but still no ip
[11:51] <jared_> What can i get it, can i get it from synaptic
[11:51] <lightbright> thegladiator: why are you coding a linux virus?
[11:52] <spesh> Hello, Can anyone offer me some suggestions :)
[11:52] <redguy> gerald_: did you try to connect to it via your browser?
[11:52] <thegladiator> lightbright, research purpose only
[11:52] <spesh> I keep freezing up when I boot from the LiveCD
[11:52] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak do i type all that in terminal?
[11:52] <jenda> thegladiator: will it be included in the default install with Dapper, or at least be in the repos?
[11:52] <MrSunshine> navarone, had my config for over a year and like i said.. problems started about a month ago :>
[11:52] <MrSunshine> and im not in linux atmn:/
[11:52] <houn> Waddup #Ubuntu?
[11:52] <egkamp> lightbright: because it isn't "zero", it is a range of values, and putting "zero" on top of "zero" is in the zero range, but isn't the same as putting "zero" on top of "one"
[11:52] <MrSunshine> got tired of it and went to windows to play some
[11:52] <lightbright> Seveas: egkamp claims that even if I zero'd my hdb1, they can still read the data that was there!  is that true?
[11:52] <gnomefreak> yes mcdenyer
[11:52] <gerald_> how?
[11:52] <thegladiator> jenda, worldwide hopefully default in any system if all works well :)
[11:52] <lightbright> egkamp: so whats the solution?
[11:52] <gerald_> how do I connect swat via web browser?
[11:52] <Seveas> lightbright, in some occasions, but this whole thing is horribly offtopic
[11:53] <jared_> Where can i get libdvdcss at?
[11:53] <redguy> !tell gerald_ about nicktab
[11:53] <egkamp> lightbright: you want to wipe with a random pattern, not all zeros
[11:53] <navarone> MrSunshine, hmmm....I dunno what to say dude...are you certain card is seated properly?
[11:53] <lightbright> Seveas: why is wiping a Ubuntu HD off topic?
[11:53] <Seveas> !tell jared_ about libdvdcss
[11:53] <jnk> lightbright, a bit is encoded as an area full of little magnets on the hard drive, where all magnets say '1' for instance. Next time you put a zero there, the head of the drive won't behave exactly the same so some of the magnets will stay at '1', and other magnets not in the original area will become '0'
[11:53] <kasemodz> anybody know how to retrieve ip address from a wireless point?
[11:53] <gnomefreak> once you wipe it its not ubuntu anymore :)
[11:53] <Seveas> lightbright, because it has very little to do with Ubuntu
[11:53] <lightbright> Seveas: what was that random pattern dd wipe command again you gave me earlier?
[11:53] <redguy> gerald_: SWAT stands for Samba Web Administration Tool
[11:53] <jenda> thegladiator: pan-platform, ai? Cool. Ever heard of running viri through wine?
[11:53] <spesh> My start up keeps freezing when it gets to Starting Hotplug subsystem.  Any suggestions?
[11:53] <Seveas> lightbright, same as what you are using, but with /dev/urandom instead of /dev/zero
[11:54] <lightbright> Seveas: ok thanks! thats all I will ask then
[11:54] <thegladiator> nope :)
[11:54] <kasemodz> anybody free to help me out?
[11:54] <gerald_> nickrud, d
[11:54] <ompaul> !anyone
[11:54] <ubotu> probably 90% of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and YOU decide? <hint>
[11:54] <lightbright> Seveas: sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hdb1
[11:54] <lightbright> Seveas: is that correct?
[11:54] <gerald_> so what do I do/
[11:54] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak ok now when u say change hoary to breezy what exactly do you mean?
[11:55] <gerald_> re
[11:55] <_jason> lightbright, you should read this http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html
[11:55] <gnomefreak> mcdenyer,the words that say hoary in the repos take hoary out and put breezy in its place
[11:55] <Seveas> lightbright, yes, if you have to ask more, #ubuntu-offtopic, I will not answer in here
[11:55] <thegladiator> just ask ur question , people are interested problems only these days
[11:55] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak ok
[11:55] <lightbright> Seveas: i finished
[11:55] <lightbright> Seveas: ty
[11:55] <Seveas> thegladiator, nice typo :)
[11:55] <tech9iner> misfit_toy: poke poke
[11:55] <mcdenyer> gnmoefreak wait whats is the repo?
[11:55] <redguy> gerald_: try localhost:901
[11:56] <redguy> gerald_: and read the docs!
[11:56] <egkamp> so my mouse has become almost unusable, it seems it mostly wants to go right and down...I think i noticed this after doing my last update...any ideas?
[11:56] <jenda> Any experience with EasyTag? I'd like to assign file names according to their tags.
[11:56] <thegladiator> he he :)
[11:56] <funkyHat> hehehe
[11:56] <gnomefreak> mcdenyer,did you read the pm ubotu sent you
[11:56] <ssam> MacSlow, so you got it all working :-)
[11:57] <redguy> gerald_: http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/SWAT.html for example
[11:57] <lightbright> _jason: yes great website, but it doesnt give a solution for Ubuntu
[11:57] <jnk> jenda, maybe try tagtool I think it's easier to use
[11:57] <MacSlow> ssam, yeah finally... now I can focus on coding that thing again... at last :)
[11:57] <mcdenyer> gnomefreak yes
[11:57] <_jason> lightbright, well you already know how to overwrite, you just aren't sure if that is secure enough.  i think that paper will give you a lot of info :)
[11:58] <egkamp> jenda: tagtool is easier
[11:58] <jenda> jnk: righto
[11:58] <lightbright> _jason: hehe ok :P
[11:59] <matthewjames> Ompaul: it still dont man, lol
[11:59] <ompaul> matthewjames, read this and register I want the bot to send you a message
[11:59] <ompaul> !register
[11:59] <ubotu> rumour has it, register is type /msg nickserv help register (you probably should do this in the server window so that if you mess up you won't reveal your password to the whole channel :))
[11:59] <matthewjames> how register
[11:59] <MacSlow> hm... the redraw of the left gtknotebook in devhelp is broken under dapper
[12:00] <k0nd0r> good bye friends


[13:17] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:18] <cmaloney> So, um, anything new? :)
[13:19] <jrwren> FSF is now RMS free.
[13:19] <cmaloney> Yeah, I know.
[13:19] <cmaloney> I was on Mastodon when it hit.
[13:19] <cmaloney> RIP sleep
[13:20] <jrwren> oh no! do not read the comments.
[13:20] <jrwren> i read way too many lwn comments and caught myself reading hte comments and immediately closed the tab.
[13:20] <cmaloney> Well, on one IRC channel it was way more kind
[13:21] <cmaloney> and it was fine until someone went into the whole mixing politics and software thing (they were against)
[13:21] <cmaloney> which, I'm not sure where they were that day when it was announced that software was political, but OK. ;)
[13:29] <cmaloney> https://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/102804921786785051 <- Why Rust and not Go
[13:31] <jrwren> do you want my response? :)
[13:31] <cmaloney> if you wish. :)
[13:33] <jrwren> I'm maybe 1/8 into the blog post and I can already tell you author doesn't have enough Go experience (any) to be worth listening to on this topic.
[13:34] <cmaloney> Have you done any Rust?
[13:34] <cmaloney> Also the blog post is quite scattershot
[13:35] <mrgoodcat> the paragraph marked "huge disclaimer" basically states "idk what i'm talking about"
[13:36] <jrwren> i've not done rust, but hte points made aren't even about rust.
[13:36] <jrwren> I'm sorry, but this author is IMO clueless, and not just about Go.
[13:36] <jrwren> i shouldn't say clueless.
[13:43] <jrwren> WHY DID YOU LINK THIS GARBAGE TO ME!?!
[13:43] <mrgoodcat> i have closed both blog posts
[13:44] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: you are smarter than me. i can't not finish reading it.
[13:44] <mrgoodcat> the go not rust one is at least more coherent
[13:57] <jrwren> i want those 15min back
[13:58] <jrwren> it is sad to think that if the author had spent the time writing that article, instead writing some go code, i wouldn't have had to read the article
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> i am all about compile speed. makes me angry how slow most ~modern~ languages are at compiling
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> ruins the dev/build/run loop
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> most of my work code these days is typescript and it is painful
[14:01] <jrwren> ugh, yup.
[14:01] <jrwren> That is why I love Go.
[14:02] <jrwren> my Go programs compile faster than webpack runs on a fresh create-react-app
[14:03] <mrgoodcat> this thread does a good job capturing the frustration of a slow dev cycle https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/1007690864909529088
[14:04] <jrwren> gary is always on point.
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> always
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> i very nearly went to deconstruct this year. had a ticket and everything
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> maybe next year...
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> to be very clear, i really like typescript a lot. almost all of the bad in typescript comes from the javascript leaking out
[14:06] <mrgoodcat> i wish typescript would have a no compatibility mode fork that would allow some of the js weirdness to be disallowed
[14:06] <jrwren> "Computers exist to serve us, not the other way around. If it is not fast and reliable then it is wrong!"
[14:06] <jrwren> never forget
[16:41] <brousch> Does golang have a repl?
[16:42] <cmaloney> I know rust doesn't have a repl and that's a little frustrating
[16:42] <cmaloney> I'm so used to Python's ability to test code like that
[16:43] <brousch> I'm supposed to learn Golang, and found myself doing things in the Python repl for a project I should be doing in golang.
[16:46] <cmaloney> heh
[16:47] <cmaloney> Apparently this is supposed to sufice: https://play.golang.org/
[16:47] <jrwren> there are repl's written for Go, but Go does not have an official repl.
[16:47] <jrwren> I thought I'd want a repl. The compiler is so fast I don't miss having a repl.
[16:48] <cmaloney> https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/655
[17:06] <cmaloney> It's more about the scaffolding to get to test code, honestly. If there's a template that gets me quickly to testing code then that's cool
[17:10] <jrwren> do you mean like the vscode-go command "generate test for function" ?
[17:13] <jrwren> https://github.com/cweill/gotests
[17:15] <cmaloney> I mean something where I can go from open vim to getting something working
[17:16] <cmaloney> Yes, grandpa likes his vim. Get over it. :)
[17:20] <brousch> So you use a edit, save, compile, run workflow to explore a module?
[17:21] <brousch> Maybe an IDE with conveniences built in would help
[17:22] <jrwren> vim-go is pretty darned great.
[17:22] <jrwren> to explore a go package, i read the source.
[17:23] <brousch> Ug, that doesn't help me. I always have to play with it in a repl
[17:23] <brousch> Well, it helps some
[17:28] <jrwren> ya know you can import pacakges in the playgorund now, right?
[17:29] <jrwren> see how yaml was imported: https://play.golang.org/p/TE4rrnXUToJ
[17:30] <cmaloney> Yeargh, go code does not seem readible on first glance
[17:30] <jrwren> is ANY code readable at first glance?
[17:30] <jrwren> I'd argue it isn't, and ifyou think it is, you are wrong.
[17:30]  * cmaloney mutters in Python
[17:31] <cmaloney> Yeah, I completely understand. Rust looks foreign to me as well
[17:31] <jrwren> python is definitely NOT readable at first glance. have you seen metaclasses?!?
[17:31] <jrwren> False ** False == True
[17:31] <jrwren> wtf python
[17:31] <cmaloney> Yes, and they were a stubling block
[17:32] <cmaloney> >>> False ** False == True
[17:32] <cmaloney> True
[17:32] <cmaloney> ;)
[17:33] <jrwren> the "it reads like english" lie sold by rubyists for years always irked me
[17:33] <cmaloney> Ruby has no claim on reading like English
[17:33] <cmaloney> I completely agree there
[17:33] <_stink_> i was reading something recently (maybe linked from this channel?) that said (paraphrasing) "if you can get past the lisp-isms, this code is more or less readable"
[17:33] <_stink_> made me chuckle
[17:34] <cmaloney> Heh
[17:34] <cmaloney> Lisp is not read as much as it is parsed
[17:34] <_stink_> granted, lisp devs often write domain-specific more than many other languages
[17:35] <cmaloney> wagreed
[17:52] <mrgoodcat> the marshal/unmarshal in go is really nice but i have to admit it threw me off at first
[17:55] <jrwren> it is jsut different.
[17:55] <jrwren> but i've found that everything in go is different for very important and good reasons


[00:07] <antarus> aha I have found cjwatson at last ;)
[00:09] <cjwatson> antarus: hmm?
[00:11] <antarus> cjwatson: I am testing a patch to netcfg; I think the precise version has a bug
[00:12] <antarus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcfg/+bug/917905, fyi
[00:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 917905 in netcfg "netcfg hang bug in autoconfig.c" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[00:17] <cjwatson> antarus: it seems odd that it would hang on the fgets call; shouldn't that get EOF instead?
[00:18] <antarus> cjwatson: dhclient never exits
[00:18] <antarus> so it wouldn't get SIGPIPE or EOF
[00:19] <antarus> on my network dhclient just retries forever
[00:19] <cjwatson> ah, annoying thing that you have to kill, right - there's some discrepancy among the different clients here
[00:20] <antarus> yeah its a mess :/
[00:20] <cjwatson> (you wouldn't get SIGPIPE anyway; that's for writes, not reads)
[00:20] <antarus> my patch basically checks rv, and if we didn't get a lease, doesn't bother reading from the pipe at all
[00:20] <antarus> although I think it also breaks the 'retry' logic
[00:21] <cjwatson> I think it exits quickly with stateless autoconfig but not stateful
[00:21] <cjwatson> I'm a bit worried about that because 0 returned from poll_dhcpv6_client is documented as "not known to have acquired a lease"
[00:21] <cjwatson> rather than definitely not
[00:22] <cjwatson> I wonder if it would be better to arrange for dhclient to actually exit
[00:22] <antarus> dhclient does support a timeout option afaik
[00:22] <antarus> so we could push the preseed config value down to it?
[00:22] <cjwatson> I'm concerned that if we don't read from the pipe on failure, there are cases where we'll end up with a stuck client for one reason or another
[00:24] <cjwatson> passing down the timeout would be fine; it's documented as 300 seconds by default
[00:25] <cjwatson> I think that would be worth a go
[00:29] <antarus> bleh, the dhclient binary in the initrd doesn't support -timeout ?
[00:30] <cjwatson> nor does any ISC dhclient binary that I know of; it goes in the configuration file
[00:41] <antarus> cjwatson: the timeout only works if I pass -1 to dhclient (to exit if it failed to get a lease)
[00:42] <antarus> cjwatson: otherwise it will combine timeout + retry + backoff and just retry forever apparently
[00:45] <cjwatson> which means it will only try once rather than retrying a few times, right?
[00:45] <antarus> correct
[00:46] <antarus> well for me I set the timeout to 5s, and it tried 4-5 times and then gave up
[00:46] <antarus> ahh, it did 3 attempts until it hit my 5s timeout and then quit
[00:47] <antarus> I'm just unclear because another segment talks about keepign the client alive and having the user request we 'retry'
[00:47] <antarus> and I'm not clear how the retry logic is supposed to work
[00:47] <antarus>  * This function will NOT kill the child if time runs out.  This allows
[00:47] <antarus>  * the user to choose to wait longer for the lease to be acquired.
[00:48] <antarus> that comment basically
[00:49] <cjwatson> That may be a dead comment
[00:49] <cjwatson> I can't see how you'd do that - you'd select "Retry network autoconfiguration" which would start a new client
[00:50] <antarus> ok, I will go ahead and push the netcfg/dhcpv6_timeout into the dhclient config file and pass it '-1' so it will oneshot attempt. Does that sound reasonable to you?
[00:51] <cjwatson> (The history of this branch is that one developer did about 90% of the work and then quit, and I picked it up and bodged it into shape with some help from stgraber; so I can't be authoritative on all of it)
[00:51] <cjwatson> I think it's worth a go.  stgraber has a scary test suite he should be able to run it through
[00:51] <antarus> excellent
[00:51] <antarus> I like test suites :)
[00:58] <stgraber> which reminds me I really need to get the tests running daily on Precise...
[02:12] <antarus> cjwatson: excellent, my patch works here (after much futzing with initrds)
[04:31] <antarus> bah
[04:31] <antarus> my initrd has a different bug now
[04:31]  * antarus will finish this tomorrow
[05:18] <superm1> stgraber: sure no problem.
[19:16] <antarus> cjwatson: is there some way to run netcfg in debug mode?
[19:16] <cjwatson> DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer on the kernel command line will show a trace of all debconf interaction, and watch syslog
[19:16] <cjwatson> not really beyond that
[19:17] <antarus> ok
[19:17] <antarus> my patch seems to have fixed the ipv6 issue, but not it won't autodetect my hardware
[19:18] <antarus> and I can't really see how the two are related
[19:19] <cjwatson> that isn't generally even netcfg's responsibility
[19:20] <cjwatson> compare the rest of your initrd with the stock one
[19:24] <antarus> hrm, ptom differs for some reason
[19:26] <antarus> oh its a symlink to netcfg
[19:26] <antarus> heh
[19:26]  * antarus makes a new initrd anyway
[19:29] <antarus> ahh looks like I had an old copy
[19:35] <antarus> cjwatson: excellent, works with a new initrd ;)
[19:49] <cjwatson> good good