[01:16] <silverarrow> what do I do for antivirus?
[01:18] <Unit193> You don't really need antivirus, but if you REALLY want to, you can add it to help other idiot windows computers on the network ;)
[01:19] <phillw> silverarrow: it is not required for linux based systems. If you share stuff with windows / Mac  systems then you can add something that will protect them from stuff you download to be transferred.
[01:19] <silverarrow> I see
[01:20] <silverarrow> thing is I download films, tv shows, and it might come with god knows what?
[01:20] <silverarrow> though I don't share much with windows systems
[01:20] <phillw> silverarrow: if it 100% linux - do not worry.
[01:20] <silverarrow> 100% lubuntu
[01:21] <phillw> I wrote up, a while ago, a section on such beasties, you'll just have to trust me that my forum area is not injecting nasties into your computer :P http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17
[01:24] <phillw> and with that... time for bed!
[01:31] <Unit193> Awwww... Good night!
[01:33] <silverarrow> good night phillw
[01:37] <silverarrow> is there any gnome player gurus here?
[01:42] <silverarrow> hyperair?
[01:46] <hyperair> ?
[02:02] <moomoo> Any recommendations for a light weight dock? wbar seems complicated to set up and adeskbar doesn't seem to be in development anymore.
[04:24] <j0hndoe> How do I edit grub2?  On boot up screen I see Lubuntu and Unknown Linux Distribution,  I would like to change that to Puppy Linux.
[05:39] <bioterror> JohnDoe_71Rus, still problems with pcmanfm?
[05:39] <JohnDoe_71Rus> bioterror: yes. :(
[05:40] <KM0201> whats wrong?
[05:42] <JohnDoe_71Rus> pcmanfm not start  to folder browse
[05:43] <JohnDoe_71Rus> just blink desktop
[05:43] <jmarsden> j0hndoe: For messing with grub, look in /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d/ and read the files in there *carefully* before doing anything.
[05:44] <KM0201> JohnDoe_71Rus, have you tried installing thunar?..
[05:44] <bioterror> KM0201, that's not the solution
[05:44] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: Open a Terminal window and run pcmanfm from there, if you see an error message, tell us what it says.
[05:44] <KM0201> bioterror, i never suggested it was, but it's a workaround until he can get this resolved
[05:45] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: no error of "file or folder not exist"
[05:45] <bioterror> jmarsden, problem also exists when he launches pcmanfm from applications menu
[05:45] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: OK, do    LANG=C pcmanfm     and tell us *exactly* what it says.
[05:45] <JohnDoe_71Rus> pcmanfm %U pcmanfm
[05:49] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: nothing. just blink folder icon on desktop. no error or text in console
[05:50] <KM0201> hmm, mine drops right back to a prompt, and opens pcman...
[05:50] <KM0201> i'm assuming that is what it is supposed to do.
[05:50] <jmarsden> Right.
[05:52] <JohnDoe_71Rus> lubuntu 10.04 + update from xlde ppa and lubuntu-desktop ppa
[05:53] <KM0201> hmm
[05:53] <JohnDoe_71Rus> ubuntu 10.04 + same ppa = same problem
[05:53] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: OK, let's try deleting your pcmanfm config files and see if it helps.    rm ~/.config/pcmanfm/*
[05:53] <JohnDoe_71Rus> one story on 3 computers
[05:53] <jmarsden> and then try the     LANG=C pcmanfm      again
[05:53] <KM0201> so you have the same prob on 3 pc's?
[05:54] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: If you do a clean Lubuntu 10.04 install, no updates at all, does it work then?
[05:55] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: the same. just reset desktop walpapers
[05:56] <JohnDoe_71Rus> KM0201: yes. 2 real comp and lubuntu 10.04 on virtual. it happend after update.
[05:56] <jmarsden> Ah, so before the updates from PPA it was OK?
[05:57] <JohnDoe_71Rus> Not at once
[05:58] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: Not at once?  What did you do to get it working earlier?    Also, if you make a new virtual machine and install Lubuntu 10.04 from the ISO image, will it work then?
[05:58] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: yes. but it was to early. on weekend install lxde to ubuntu and it happend
[05:59] <JohnDoe_71Rus> then it works It is an old story
[06:00] <jmarsden> So something in the PPA updates is probably the cause... but I don't know what it would be... if you do the install in English language, and then update, does it work?  Maybe this is a localazation issue of some sort??
[06:00] <jmarsden> *localization
[06:03] <jmarsden> JohnDoe_71Rus: Does the "Rus" mean your installs are in русский ?
[06:03] <JohnDoe_71Rus> yes
[06:04] <jmarsden> OK.  Not right now, but maybe this weekend, I will try a русский install in a VM here and see if I can duplicate the issue.
[06:04] <JohnDoe_71Rus> ok.
[06:04] <jmarsden> If you can try an English install and see if it is fine for you in English, that would be good to know.
[06:11] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: try change menu to english and reboot virtual. no effect
[06:12] <jmarsden> OK... I can't work any more on this now, hopefully I will have some time this weekend to try to duplicate the problem here.
[06:37] <Schala> I'm rather curious as to what Lubuntu means by 'lightweight'. Is it Ubuntu but stripped of the extras like games, mailing clients, extra utilities, leaving me to install what I want at my discretion?
[06:38] <jmarsden> Not quite.  It uses a desktop environment that needs less RAM and CPU than GNOME/Ubiquity do, and picks its apps for 'usual' tasks for similarly lowish RAM/CPu requirements.
[06:39] <jmarsden> So Lubuntu will run smoothly on some older low-RAM PCs that Ubuntu has a hard time running at reasoanble speed on.
[06:39] <Schala> hmm
[06:39] <jmarsden> There is a Ubuntu mini-iso that is closer to what you see, the bare minimum OS that you can add (Lubuntu-desktop or gnome-desktop) to...
[06:40] <jmarsden> *to what you seek
[06:40] <Schala> see, when I get new Ubuntu releases, almost immediately I go to the software center and taking out stuff like games and the email client and stuff that I know I'll never use
[06:40] <Schala> ah, where's that?
[06:40] <jmarsden> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[06:41] <j0hndoe> all Ubuntu distro are the same, it just use different Desktop Environment and different programs initially.
[06:41] <jmarsden> j0hndoe: well, sort of -- Ubuntu Server uses a server-tweaker kernel and no DE or X at all :)
[06:42] <j0hndoe> but you can remove the lightweight programs like abiword/gnumeric and use libreoffice, but depending on your hardware and system spec, programs you use may lag your pc etc
[06:42] <j0hndoe> jmarsden oic
[06:45] <Schala> so Ubuntu's minimal CD let's me pick the stuff at install time and automatically selects dependencies as well, as opposed to the normal distro which puts a standard default selection of it on my drive?
[06:46] <jmarsden> Schala: Right, the minimal cd is so minimal you get a text-based command shell to work from until you add more stuff.
[06:48] <Schala> hmm....ok....haven't too much experience with being locked to CLI... but I do want to be conservative about what I put on, seeing as 11.04 has some out of date packages like Mono and what not
[06:49] <jmarsden> So install the minimal CD and add a desktop of your choice :)
[06:49] <Schala> ah, ok
[06:49] <Schala> I'll go give that a download
[06:50] <Schala> when I boot from CD does the installer have a GUI? I'm getting better with terminal, having used it since my Mac OS X days but strict terminal with no GUI I get rather spooked about
[06:50] <jmarsden> No, the CD uses the "Alternate CD" style textmode installer.
[06:50] <jmarsden> Try it and see :)
[06:50] <Schala> I guess it won't hurt, thanks
[06:51] <jmarsden> ifyou have a working Ubuntu machine now, you can try it in a virtual machine first under virtualbox if you like :)
[06:51] <jmarsden> You're welcome.
[06:52] <Schala> unfortunately no.... I find myself needing Windows as well and started with it, but I'm a Linux fan and crave it as well... I've just recently been able to buy a nice 1 TB drive for the extra hard drive slot on my motherboard
[06:52] <jmarsden> If you have enough RAM, virtualbox will run under windows...
[06:52] <Schala> bad news is I have ATI and don't know how well it'll hold on Linux
[06:53] <bioterror> depends on ATI
[06:53] <bioterror> I have Radeon 4350 or something and works like a dream with opensource drivers
[06:53] <jmarsden> Linux as primary OS with windows in a virtualbox is "better" for Linux-y people, but the other way around works.  I do it that way at work.
[06:54] <jmarsden> bioterror: I have the same thing -- cheap low end Radeon, works fine for me.
[06:54] <bioterror> dunno about the low end, 512MB RAM is enough :D
[06:55] <jmarsden> Oh it is low end... $30 or so.. the high end cards are ten times that :)
[06:55] <Schala> Radeon HD 5770 here.... I've been intrigued by the existence of an opensource driver for ATI..... My friend says ATI sucks with shader support in the official driver, so I've been wondering if that's a strength the open driver has over the proprietary one
[06:56] <jmarsden> Schala: Windows gaming and general linux use are two different things... is your friend running Linux when making this statement?
[06:56] <Schala> well, I mean a few friends.... and that would be both yes and no
[06:57] <Schala> they all tell me the same thing, that ATI's lack of shader support is a driver issue
[06:57] <jmarsden> OK.  Lubuntu is more of a low end "general purpose" OS than a gaming platform, so you're in the wrong place for good advice about Linux gaming really...
[06:58] <Schala> well not exactly gaming, but graphics-oriented yes
[06:58] <Schala> thanks again for the mini CD link anyway
[06:58] <jmarsden> You're welcome.
[07:05] <JohnDoe_71Rus> jmarsden: install lubuntu 10.04. pcmanfm 0.9.5. update to 0.9.7. work fine. try add lxde ppa and update
[07:13] <JohnDoe_71Rus> http://pastebin.com/mt0ngD5v
[07:14] <JohnDoe_71Rus> update to 0.9.8
[07:32] <bioterror> backtrace it ;)
[07:32] <bioterror> and report a bug
[08:23] <head_victim> I game on Lubuntu, Urban Terror rocks :)
[09:17] <nicofs> Is someone there?
[09:17] <jmarsden> No :)
[09:17] <JohnDoe_71Rus> bioterror: bak to pcmanfm2 0.9.7 fix problem
[09:18] <bioterror> yes
[09:19] <JohnDoe_71Rus> pcmanfm %U open / not the home dir
[09:26] <nicofs> I have been trying to create an ARM rootfs of lubuntu-desktop, but it fails due to "gecko-mediaplayer is not installable"...
[09:32] <jmarsden> nicofs: As a temp fix, grab lubuntu-meta and edit it to not include gecko-media-player, rebuild the package and continue?  (It is 2:30Am here, I need to go to bed!)
[09:33] <nicofs> jmarsden, how would i do that inside rootstock...?
[09:33] <jmarsden> No, do that on a normal PC.  Get the PPAs to rebuild it for ARM, assuming they support ARM?
[09:34] <nicofs> sorry, that's beyond my abilities... i don't know how to make a rootfs manually...
[09:36] <jmarsden> does your "rootstock" have the normal build tools available to you?  gcc, binutils, make, debuild, ... ?  if it does, you can certainly try rebuilding lubuntu-meta in there...
[09:36] <nicofs> it's a toolchain - i feed it with parameters and then hit enter - apart from that i don't do anything else...
[09:37] <nicofs> all i can do ist "--seed [package name]"
[09:37] <nicofs> *is
[10:27] <nicofs> i'll try building gecko...
[10:58] <andantino> anyone else have issues with lxde and setting the mouse speed
[11:06] <Gabriel_Salles> I made a script to edit my touchpad settings
[11:08] <Bieleke> Anybody has a link or url to a howto or manual to put lubuntu on an usb-stick ?
[11:09] <andantino> hmmm brb
[11:51] <JohnDoe_71Rus> need menu editor, like alacarte
[13:25] <usr13> bioterror: I think the instructions for putting Ubuntu on USB will apply.  It's basically the same proceedure.
[13:26] <bioterror> okay
[13:26] <usr13> there may be one written for Lubuntu as well, I don't know for sure, but...
[13:27] <usr13> I've got a question.
[13:28] <usr13> ALt-F2 does not bring up the run command. Anyone else have that problem?
[13:28] <usr13> Or, would anyone be willing to look at the stansa in my config to see if they can tell where the error is?
[13:29] <bioterror> alt+f2 is default
[13:29] <bioterror> should work
[13:30] <bioterror> and for putting ubuntu on usb pendrive, unetbootin is always the best solution
[13:30] <usr13> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[13:30] <bioterror> atleast for me it has been
[13:30] <bioterror> with any ubuntu flavour
[13:31] <usr13> bioterror: bioterror I think unebootin just takes the iso and spits it right on there, you just have to tell it which / where the iso is.  Right?
[13:32] <bioterror> you tell where the iso is and it will extract and yadda yadda ;)
[13:32] <bioterror> do some small things
[13:33] <bioterror> but my workday is done, see ya later
[13:33] <bioterror> gotta catch mrs. terror from school
[13:33] <usr13> bioterror: Oh yea, does several things. Creates a boot loader ...
[13:34] <usr13> I'd also like to set a hotkey, F12, to open terminal.  Anyone done that yet?
[13:35] <usr13> I use CLI a lot and like to bring up a terminal real quick and easy.  I find F12 very handy.
[13:41] <usr13> I have another question.  If I just restart lspanel, will that activate changes to the lubuntu-rc.xml file?
[13:59] <usr13> * lxpanelctl
[14:17] <Gabriel_Salles> That think of F12 to bring lxterminal is a nice idea... I will do this here and then tell you how to do it
[14:25] <jibel> Hey all, there are new Lubuntu Oneiric Beta 1 alternate images available for testing
[14:26] <jibel> if you're interested go there http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6468 for i386 or http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6467 for amd64
[14:27] <jibel> hopefully that should fix the bug where lubuntu-desktop was not installed
[14:31] <phillw> jibel: I'm waiting for the alternate to be re-spun. Hopefully in next couple of hours.
[14:32] <silverarrow> hi
[14:32] <jibel> phillw, its done http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily/current/
[14:32] <silverarrow> how do I check what kind of player I am using in the browser?
[14:33] <silverarrow> it's not adobe flash player at least
[14:34] <silverarrow> ....and I am looking in to what's the best way to get Tor,
[14:34] <silverarrow> package manager or the bundle from their site
[14:35] <silverarrow> I go for what will install with least trouble
[14:50] <usr13> silverarrow: I just install Adobe Flashplayer 10
[14:51] <usr13> silverarrow: You ARE talking about flashplayer, Right?
[14:52] <usr13> when you go to the package manager and do search for flashplayer  or Adobe  you'll see which is installed now.
[14:52] <silverarrow> yes, but I think something else is streaming when I am watching oline tv
[14:52] <silverarrow> it doesn't look like adobe
[14:53] <usr13> I would venture to say it's either gxine or flashplayer
[14:53] <usr13> what site is it?
[14:53] <usr13> can you post a screenshot?
[14:54] <usr13> I'll bet it's just flashplayer.
[14:54] <usr13> YOu could find out by uninstalling flashplayer and try the site again.
[14:56] <silverarrow> http://imagebin.org/170575
[14:56] <silverarrow> on the windows machine, it opens in windows media player
[14:57] <silverarrow> the site recommends using windows media player too
[14:58] <silverarrow> usr13, any sense of the picture?
[15:15] <usr13> looks like flashplayer to me
[15:15] <silverarrow> usr13, can't be?
[15:15] <silverarrow> at least not adobe
[15:20] <usr13> Let me try it on mine..
[15:24] <usr13> silverarrow: What flashpler do you have installed?
[15:25] <usr13> It wont even play on mine.
[15:35] <silverarrow> it plays here
[15:35] <silverarrow> usr13
[15:35] <usr13> Well, I think you are right.  Its not.
[15:35] <usr13> but it won't play on mine.
[15:35] <usr13> Is yours stock install?
[15:36] <silverarrow> I am afraid there are blocks out side norway
[15:36] <usr13> OH.. that's it.
[15:36] <silverarrow> you have to use some kind of clever stuff to by pass, like Tor
[15:36] <usr13> Well, I'm not in Norway
[15:36] <silverarrow> sorry
[15:36] <usr13> Tor?
[15:36] <usr13> How-to?
[15:37] <silverarrow> Yes, I am about to install it, tor I mean
[15:37] <jmarsden> usr13: use Google.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tor
[15:37] <silverarrow> is is a project for making software that confuses the block, so it will not allow streamng
[15:37] <usr13> My player comes up but it  doesn't play.
[15:39] <silverarrow> what kind of player do you get?
[15:39] <silverarrow> you are in lubuntu too?
[15:56] <silverarrow> usr13, it might be either gecko or mplayer
[15:56] <silverarrow> usr13, I am just guessing from what I see in my config files
[15:56] <silverarrow> gnome player I mean
[15:57] <silverarrow> not mplayer
[17:20] <Antonio007> Sorry, when compiling ndiswrapper Unknown field 'ioctl' specified in initializer
[17:20] <Antonio007> any ideas?
[20:21] <silverarrow> are buntu vlc builds still broken?
[20:53] <silverarrow> anyone who knows the lubuntu mediaplayers?
[20:53] <silverarrow> i stream online tv marvelously
[20:54] <silverarrow> youtube a bit so so
[21:13] <stephen-smally> hi eveybody
[22:15] <Neosano> no way to test 11.10 beta? :\
[22:15] <Neosano> or is it.. too early for it?
[22:44] <gilir> Neosano, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/
[22:47] <Neosano> gilir, oh, thanks!
[22:50] <Neosano> would be cool if it was here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
[23:13] <hosoka> hello all
[23:14] <hosoka> currently i have the lubuntu 10.10 and I wanted to have at the startup the grub but this cannot be found. How to access this ?


[02:07] <ahoneybun> I might see folks at Scale valorie
[05:01] <valorie> ahoneybun: I've always wanted to make it to scale, but not so far
[05:01] <valorie> therefore: jealous
[12:11] <clivejo> do we have a page explaining what the KC is and does ?
[12:12] <clivejo> I can only find the constitution on the website
[14:06] <ahoneybun> lol valorie
[17:46] <ahoneybun> I've sent an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and CCed this list in on it
[17:46] <ahoneybun> valorie: clivejo acheronuk
[18:19] <clivejo> did you get the log in details?
[20:20] <valorie> ahoneybun: https://survey.documentfoundation.org/665628
[20:20] <valorie> cool voting system
[20:20] <ahoneybun> clivejo:
[20:20] <ahoneybun> I did not get it from Phil yet
[20:21] <clivejo> have you pinged him or emailed him directly?
[20:25] <ahoneybun> no I have not
[22:34] <valorie> responded to clive's email and the thread
[22:34] <valorie> sorry for the delay; husband decided today was the day to chip branches
[22:35] <valorie> I quit before I strangled him with my bare hands


[00:45] <rww> hehe, I get all the "X has renewed their membership in ubuntu-us-ca" emails now
[00:46] <rww> i feel like there should be celebratory cake attached to them
[01:00]  * ianorlin doesn't like cake that much
[19:49] <ianorlin> not sure I will be able to make meeting this week because my have to pick up my brother from field trip


[00:35] <robert_ancell> What's the recommended method for installing a silo onto an Ubuntu touch device?
[00:37] <robert_ancell> I think it's running "phablet-config writable-image" and then apt-get installing the PPA but want to double check.
[01:20] <jcbjoe> question im looking at some youtube vidoes and it shows the BQ Aquaris and the MeizuMX4 and they have ubuntu-touch like a final version .. could i run this build or version on a nexus 5 ?
[01:52] <RAOF> robert_ancell: phablet-tools-citrain contains /usr/bin/citrain which has the “device-upgrade” command to snaffle packages from a silo.
[02:00] <robert_ancell> RAOF, awesome. I thought such a tool might exist
[02:33] <jcbjoe> anyone using a nexus 4 with or 5 with ubuntu-touch just trying to see if there is a final build or something since its actually being sold as a phone
[02:39] <Elleo> jcbjoe: the nexus 4 is one of the official reference devices, so there are official images for that; for the nexus 5 there are only community ports (as I understand it they're fairly good ports, but with some battery issues and a few bits of hardware not working right)
[02:39] <jcbjoe> got it
[06:24] <sturmflut-work> Good morning everybody
[06:29] <dholbach> good morning
[06:33] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: Morning!
[06:34] <dholbach> hey sturmflut-work
[07:46] <kissiel> Mirv, hi! Do you have a minute?
[07:49] <Mirv> kissiel: sure, at this hour :)
[07:50] <kissiel> Mirv, I remember you helping us push checkbox-touch to the store
[07:50] <kissiel> Mirv, is there a new way to do that, or someone still has to do it manually?
[07:55] <Mirv> kissiel: someone else like popey might have the best answer if there's a new way for that, but there's still the old way too (well, it did change a bit but I should have the newest bits)
[07:55] <kissiel> Mirv, mm, okay
[07:56] <kissiel> Mirv, so still manual, eh? https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/+milestone/1.1 here's the current click, what else should I bring?
[07:58] <Mirv> kissiel: the click looks good, let's in parallel wait for an answer whether you can upload it yourself and I'll try if I can upload (at first sight, it seems my setup has a python problem)
[07:58] <kissiel> Mirv, allright, thanks, I'm off to meetings, I'll be back in ~60minutes
[08:13] <popey> Mirv: kissiel I can upload for you
[08:17] <Mirv> popey: so you do it via web or such?
[08:18] <popey> yes
[08:18] <popey> login to store, upload, like anyone else
[08:19] <sil2100> popey, ogra_, jibel, davmor2, Mirv: hey guys, I changed the calendar to only have 2 morning and 2 evening meetings in the week - two on Monday to plan out the work for the whole week for both the EU and US timezone, one meeting on Thursday and one on Friday - those are more for 'promotion-like' decisions, as we usually have tests finished on those days
[08:19] <Mirv> oh, modern times!
[08:20] <Mirv> sil2100: ok, I can see that
[08:20] <Mirv> makes sense
[08:20] <popey> ok
[08:20] <sil2100> popey, ogra_, jibel, davmor2, Mirv: we can adjust them later if this setup doesn't quite work
[08:21] <davmor2> \o/ lie ins
[08:22] <Mirv> popey: kissiel: well as usual popey can check what happened, I got click-toolbelt now ~working again with the new version of it, and I got https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/api/click-package-upload/com.ubuntu.checkbox/ but then an error when checking package status
[08:22] <Mirv> sil2100: should we have a daily cat hangout anyhow?
[08:23] <popey> Mirv: kissiel i see no changes to the app on the site.
[08:23] <oscar__> hello
[08:23] <Mirv> popey: yeah so the error message was probably correct in saying that there was an error
[08:23] <popey> (nothing that indicates a new version uploaded)
[08:23] <Mirv> popey: well, you can get the .click, gpg --verify it against the .sig and upload
[08:23] <popey> hello oscar__
[08:23] <popey> where from?
[08:23] <popey> ah lp
[08:24] <Mirv> popey: https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/+milestone/1.1
[08:24] <popey> ta
[08:24] <oscar__> How can I do to unlock the phone ubuntu
[08:24] <popey> define "unlock"?
[08:24] <kissiel> Mirv, I got no access to that URL
[08:25] <popey> kissiel: it fails click-reviewer-tools anyway. http://paste.ubuntu.com/10937021/
[08:25] <kissiel> popey, thanks!
[08:26] <popey> kissiel: specifically you need to update the framework and spit out a new click - the store will reject it otherwise.
[08:26] <walde079> susup guys
[08:26] <kissiel> popey, understood, will fix,test and ping you guys in a bit
[08:26] <davmor2> oscar__: how do you mean unlock?
[08:27] <oscar__> yes it because I define as security a pin of 4 digits and then the terminal by mistake set the phablet password for letters.
[08:28] <sil2100> Mirv: let's schedule a separate meeting for that ;) I'll join the cat club once we finally get ours!
[08:28] <oscar__> I'm using the "BQ Ubuntu Edition"
[08:28] <davmor2> popey: any ideas ^
[08:28] <oscar__> :(
[08:28] <oscar__> :(
[08:30] <Mirv> oscar__: the terminal app itself shouldn't set the password as letters, but indeed it asks for the 4 digit pin code via normal keyboard, if that's what you mean? you can type your 4 digits to the terminal with that normal keyboard
[08:30] <Mirv> sil2100: ok! ;)
[08:30] <popey> yeah, its the same password
[08:30] <popey> sudo / unlocking phone / terminal / file manager - same pin/passphrase
[08:31] <Mirv> oh, I probably shouldn't be asking that but... any tips to hack app lifecycle for certain apps, if I accept to void all warranties and such? ;)
[08:32]  * Mirv would like ssh connections to stay open
[08:32] <Stskeeps> port mosh?
[08:32] <oscar__> but I do not have access to the applications, and the keyboard is numeric :(
[08:32] <Mirv> Stskeeps: hmm mosh might be an option here. I never really switched to that but in this case it might be time to switch.
[08:33] <Stskeeps> Mirv: it's totally lovely.
[08:33] <Mirv> so I've heard
[08:33] <oscar__> if I connect via USB can access the phone's shell?
[08:34] <popey> Mirv: i asked tvoss for a lifecycle exception for terminal - no reply
[08:35] <popey> pmg suggested it should be possible if developer mode switch is on.
[08:35] <popey> which I think is reasonable
[08:36] <oscar__> yes
[08:36] <oscar__> yes is active :(
[08:36] <sil2100> Mirv: btw. isn't there a LP team for cat owners or something? ;p
[08:38] <oscar__> I activated the mode of development because he was not able to change the password for the root user.
[08:38] <oscar__> And now? How can I get around the situation?
[08:39] <popey> oscar__: what is the problem you have right now?
[08:39] <popey> oscar__: Your password, set in System Settings -> Security & Privacy. That's the same as the password you use in Terminal, and sudo.
[08:39] <popey> So what is currently broken?
[08:40] <oscar__> to access the application asks for the security pin.
[08:40] <oscar__> and enter the pin does not accept
[08:41] <oscar__> yes this the same password
[08:41] <popey> you can lock and unlock your phone with the same pin?
[08:41] <jgdx> Mirv, +1 for mosh!
[08:42] <jgdx> a truly "you're not going to look back" system
[08:42] <oscar__> I am enter the same pin and not to allow unlock
[08:43] <popey> oscar__: what exactly did you do? You said something about root password? What did you do to set that?
[08:43] <davmor2> and why
[08:44] <popey> jgdx: yeah, mosh would be even more amazing if network manager wasn't broken in 15.04 :(
[08:44] <seb128> popey, how broken?
[08:44] <Mirv> popey: ok. yeah, reasonable under dev mode.
[08:45] <Mirv> sil2100: not sure if there's yet :D
[08:45] <popey> seb128: you can't have two network cards on the same machine on the same lan (e.g. Wired & Wifi on same network)
[08:45] <popey> known bug
[08:45] <oscar__> the console changed the password of the phablet user to "enter" and I enabled the developer so because he was not able to.  As a safety had set the blockades pin 4440.
[08:45] <seb128> weird, wfm
[08:45] <popey> at the same time?
[08:45] <popey> it's known upstream too, and fixed with a patch I believe
[08:45] <seb128> dunno
[08:45] <Mirv> jgdx: just reading http://blog.cloudpassage.com/2012/09/25/mitigating-security-risks-mosh/ though :)
[08:45] <seb128> it routes through one at least
[08:45] <popey> right, thats the problem, "same time" is the key phrase
[08:45] <popey> not if both are on
[08:45] <seb128> I get access to internet&co
[08:46] <seb128> well I'm connected to both
[08:46] <seb128> and I can access to machines local&internet
[08:46] <seb128> not sure what else you could be doing
[08:46] <popey> me?
[08:46] <seb128> specifying the source interface?
[08:46] <popey> it's known upstream, not just me
[08:46] <seb128> well, I'm unsure how you can see the bug if everything is working
[08:46] <popey> cyphermox said it's on his to-do list
[08:46] <seb128> you want to force packets to go through the wifi?
[08:46] <seb128> or the eth?
[08:47] <seb128> and not the system to pick one for you?
[08:47] <popey> no, i just want it to work
[08:47] <oscar__> currently only have the numeric keypad to unlock and does not accept the pin
[08:47] <popey> it drops packets for 30 seconds, then works for 30 seconds
[08:47] <seb128> oh, urg
[08:47] <Mirv> + setting up mosh without making image writable (which I try to avoid currently) seems a bit hard since one isn't allowed to execute binaries form /home/phablet. who cares about security.. oh, right, me
[08:47] <seb128> I don't see that here, not sure why
[08:48] <popey> are both interfaces on same lan segment?
[08:48] <Mirv> but yes, thanks for reminding about mosh anyway, either that or disabling lifecycle management for terminal
[08:48] <popey> same subnet?
[08:48] <seb128> well, if cyphermox is on it let's hope he fixes it for those who get the issue
[08:48] <seb128> popey, my home config is a modem/dsl router with eth ports and a wifi ap
[08:48] <seb128> which I'm both using directly connected to my laptop/dock station
[08:48] <seb128> nothing else
[08:48] <seb128> so I guess so?
[08:48] <seb128> I'm not a sysadmin, didn't play with anything
[08:49] <popey> seb128: bug 1436330
[08:49] <seb128> just plugged the dock to the router
[08:49] <seb128> and enabled wifi
[08:49] <davmor2> oscar__: what?  I think you are losing us.  The console doesn't change anything.  It might ask you to Enter your Password.  The password is your pin.  The only way it would of change would be if you changed it.
[08:49] <seb128> popey, thanks
[08:50] <oscar__> then I do not know what happened, because it changed the initial pin :(
[08:50] <popey> oscar__: did you use passwd on the command line, or some other tool to set the password?
[08:50] <popey> oscar__: you said you set root password?
[08:51] <oscar__> yes
[08:51] <oscar__> :(
[08:51] <popey> what did you do?
[08:51] <popey> Please, answer the questions specificall, as it's very hard to help when you don't, but answer questions we didn't ask.
[08:51] <popey> *specifically
[08:52] <oscar__> I apologize, but in the end did the following:  sudo -i
[08:52] <popey> ok.
[08:52] <popey> that should work fine.
[08:53] <popey> what else?
[08:54] <oscar__> then i set the password
[08:55] <oscar__> then i set the password:  passwd phablet
[08:55] <popey> ok, that's fine.
[08:56] <popey> so whatever you set the password to... that _is_ your pin
[08:56] <davmor2> popey: yeah the issue is going to be that the lock screen is set to pin so no way to type in a password
[08:57] <davmor2> popey: you can't type in boo with 1234
[08:58] <davmor2> popey: sound like oscar__ changed the password in the terminal but that didn't change the input method of the login screen
[08:58] <oscar__> I changed to a different and letters.
[08:58] <popey> right, I agree with davmor2
[08:59] <popey> connect via adb and then "passwd phablet" and set it to 1234 temporarily?
[08:59] <popey> then use system settings to set it to something better
[08:59] <oscar__> And now I have no way to unlock because the keyboard is just like digits.
[09:00] <davmor2> oscar__: read popey 's lines above it gives a possible solution
[09:00] <boichev> Does the upgrade to 15.05 require something special because I can't see it on the Aquaris 4.5 ?
[09:00] <oscar__> okay I'll see how I do it on mac
[09:00] <popey> boichev: we haven't released a 15.04 update for bq phones yet
[09:01] <seb128> jgdx, hey, any idea how what info to ask on issues like https://askubuntu.com/questions/614635/no-cellular-data-after-update ?
[09:01] <boichev> popey: ahh I see :) thanks
[09:01] <oscar__> I need a few minutes I'll be back
[09:01] <oscar__> Thank you for your support
[09:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Wish Day! :-D
[09:04] <oscar__> The operating system apple where I can get the binary for debugging the mobile phone?
[09:04] <popey> you probably need adb from some android package
[09:05] <oscar__> nice
[09:06] <oscar__> :(
[09:07] <oscar__> to have the lock screen can not access the device via USB
[09:10] <popey> oh, yeah.
[09:10] <popey> This is a pickle.
[09:11] <davmor2> popey, oscar__ : adb won't work the phone isn't unlocked....maybe factory reset from the recovery
[09:11] <popey> ugh.
[09:12] <oscar__> And how I do it? how can I do a reset to factory can not unlock the screen?
[09:13] <davmor2> oscar__: give me 2 minutes
[09:13] <oscar__> okay davmor2
[09:16] <davmor2> oscar__: reboot the phone and press and keep the volume up key pressed.  When you get the menu screen press volume up till the arrow is on recovery, ping me once you have that
[09:18] <oscar__> yes works!!!!
[09:18] <davmor2> oscar__: once the arrow is on recovery, press the volume down
[09:18] <oscar__> thank you very much !!!! you guys are the greatest !!!
[09:19] <davmor2> oscar__: there is more yet
[09:19] <davmor2> oscar__: you should now be on a screen with the ubuntu logo right?
[09:19] <popey> davmor2: sounds like he's fixed himself :)
[09:19] <oscar__> is identical to the bootloader android, is already doing recovery.
[09:20] <davmor2> oscar__: so you did the factory reset and are happy now \o/  you will lose all data but you will have a working phone again :)
[09:21] <oscar__> no :(
[09:21] <oscar__> It is in the same situation :(
[09:23] <davmor2> oscar__: did you do the factory reset?
[09:23] <davmor2> oscar__: or did you just go into recovery
[09:25] <ulrichard> I just had an incoming call, while I had the telephone app open. It rang, but I couldn't figure out how to accept it. Is that a known problem?
[09:25] <davmor2> oscar__: well do you need me to take you through resetting it?
[09:27] <oscar__> wait
[09:28] <oscar__> Now to try again unwittingly chose the "bootloader", how can I do to get back to the menu?
[09:29] <oscar__> the screen is to appear: Fastboot mode ...
[09:30] <oscar__> how can I return to the menu?
[09:30] <davmor2> oscar__: I didn't say bootloader
[09:30] <davmor2> oscar__: I said recovery
[09:30] <oscar__> sorry
[09:33] <davmor2> oscar__: press the power button and vol up button for a very long time.
[09:34] <oscar__> ok
[09:35] <davmor2> oscar__: then select recovery and press the volume down
[09:35] <oscar__> yes did it. this time appears the logo of ubuntu
[09:36] <davmor2> one second let me get to the same place now
[09:37] <davmor2> oscar__: on the recovery page press volume up that should give you a menu
[09:38] <davmor2> oscar__: now press down to wipe data/factory reset
[09:39] <oscar__> yes
[09:39] <davmor2> oscar__: now press power
[09:39] <davmor2> oscar__: then press down till you get to the Yes -- delete all user data
[09:39] <oscar__> now: -- Wiping data...
[09:40] <oscar__> Data wipe complete.
[09:40] <davmor2> oscar__: when that finishes select reboot the system now
[09:40] <oscar__> ok
[09:41] <davmor2> oscar__: you back setting up your phone now right?
[09:41] <oscar__> Now yes. Factory reset done!
[09:42] <oscar__> Yes it works perfectly.
[09:43] <oscar__> Thanks again for your help and patience in helping me. Grateful.
[09:43] <davmor2> oscar__: now just remember that the pin you set is the system password throughout
[09:44] <davmor2> oscar__: no worries glad you are back to a working system]
[09:44] <popey> nice one davmor2
[09:44] <popey> davmor2: we should document this...
[09:45] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/609938/how-do-i-factory-reset-a-bq-aquaris-e4-5-ubuntu-edition-from-the-handset
[09:45] <popey> someone has :)
[09:45] <davmor2> \o/
[09:47] <oscar__> I'll see what happened. I will try to reproduce the same mistake. It seems that when setting the screen lock as four numbers and then in terminal change to another type of password is not very clear.
[09:48] <oscar__> Thanks for everything !!!
[09:48] <davmor2> oscar__: you can change it to a password just use the tool provided in system-setting rather than the terminal
[09:49] <oscar__> Yes it makes sense :)
[09:52] <Se7> morning all
[11:05] <jgdx> seb128, hm, I'll take a look
[11:06] <TenLeftFingers> Looking at bugs filed against the browser. I don't see anything for what I'm experiencing - the notification bar sometimes overlaps the top of the browser. Sometimes the browser moves up and covers the notification bar (although swiping down still works). But on first launch, it typically displays itself beneath the notification area like other apps. should I file this?
[11:06] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: Ping
[11:07] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, wassup?
[11:11] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: Regarding the e-mail from Davide Alberelli about the "False Roaming", this is a somewhat special and complicated case. Two german providers joined their network and it is intentional that the phone roams from one into the other. The only difference I see between Android and Ubuntu Touch is that Android apparently roams to the other network and activates mobile data *without* the user having to activate "data roaming".
[11:13] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, well, yeah, that's what I meant, we need to differentiate between "local/national" and "abroad" roaming
[11:17] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: Sadly the situation is complicated further by the fact that the two providers are changing their configurations during normal operation, sometimes one region at a time, and they have lots of MVNOs on their network too which all have to change their settings as well. There are lots of problems with non-Ubuntu phones too. I wonder if the problem can be properly debugged at the moment.
[11:18] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, dunno, we might need to introduce network-specific quirks if we can't reliably determine stuff from the network props and such
[11:19] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, it's why I asked for a bug report so that people that know more about this can relate
[11:20] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: I have the necessary SIM cards and phones here, but am short on time at the moment. Should I come up with something today I'll try to file a proper bug report.
[11:20] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, thanks, very much appreciated
[11:21] <jgdx> popey, what's the issue with nm and mosh?
[11:21] <popey> jgdx: bug in nm causes machines with more than one network connection to fail to talk to the network
[11:22] <popey> not a mosh problem
[11:22] <jgdx> yes, nm on 15.04 has been a treat so far :p
[11:23] <popey> lies
[11:23] <popey> it never connects for me on wake from suspend.
[11:23] <popey> i have to manually fiddle the connections
[11:24] <jgdx> Wi-Fi? Mine's ultra quick, the connected notification is there immediately after login
[11:24] <popey> this is a known bug
[11:24] <popey> upstream
[11:24] <jgdx> ah
[11:26] <jgdx> communication between wpa and nm is at a new low I find
[11:53] <ledtape> yotelet
[12:12] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+bug/1449990
[12:14] <sturmflut-work> Saviq: I'll be leaving germany in a couple of hours so if something vital is missing it would be best if you could tell me within the next two hours, otherwise I may not be able to help until monday
[12:23] <Saviq> sturmflut-work, this is awesome, thanks
[12:58] <matv1> question: how come Document Viewer so much faster at displaying large files than the other pdf viewers in the store?
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> matv1: maybe its built with lightweight use in mind
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> like mupdf for ubuntu desktop
[13:00] <kissiel> popey, still here? :) I've created follow-up release of  checkbox, now click-review complains only about being unconfined; it's here https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/trunk/1.1.1/+download/com.ubuntu.checkbox_1.1.1_multi.click
[13:02] <popey> kissiel: ok!
[13:02] <popey> kissiel: want it uploaded and published?
[13:03] <kissiel> popey, I surely  do :)
[13:03] <popey> kissiel: got a changelog of what's new from 1.0.2?
[13:04] <kissiel> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10939818/
[13:04] <seb128> jgdx, thanks
[13:04] <kissiel> popey, is this okay?
[13:04] <popey> perfect
[13:05] <matv1> lotuspsychje yeah maybe  but i feel its more to it  thn that. guess i would have to dive into the code
[13:06] <popey> kissiel: done, 1.1.1 is in the store
[13:06] <kissiel> popey, \o/
[13:07] <kissiel> popey, thank you! Now, the other thing... Is there any piece of info about how to push such unconfined apps?
[13:08] <popey> kissiel: i don't understand the question.
[13:08] <kissiel> popey, sorry; do we have to do this manually every time?
[13:09] <popey> yes
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> matv1: maybe this is a good start? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-docviewer-app
[13:09] <popey> matv1: what other pdf viewers?
[13:09] <kissiel> popey, well, ok...
[13:10] <popey> matv1: docviewer is written in C++, there is only one other I know of and it's js.
[13:10] <popey> that may explain it :)
[13:10] <matv1> PdfjsViewer
[13:10] <matv1> right
[13:10] <lotuspsychje> yeah i agree pdfviewer lags much more
[13:13] <popey> kissiel: we have restrictions on unconfined apps in the store, but feel free to email me whenever you want to upload, or just ping me on irc.
[13:13] <kissiel> popey, if it's ok with you, I'll do that :) thanks for the support
[13:13] <popey> np
[13:23] <sturmflut-work> Saviq, mterry: Can I add anything else to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1421455 ? I thought about profiling the system with perf, but looks like there is no perf for this kernel.
[13:33] <sturmflut-work> mterry: By the way, according to strace upowerd tries to open a bunch of non-existing files in /sys/devices/platform/battery/power_supply/battery/ every ten seconds on the bq.
[13:33] <mterry> sturmflut-work, curious...  :-/
[13:33] <mterry> sturmflut-work, might be worth its own bug
[13:37] <sturmflut-work> mterry: I filed one, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1450026
[13:37] <sturmflut-work> Argh, I wrote "E.45"
[14:37] <kenvandine> popey, what's the url to your click mirror?
[14:37] <popey> heheh
[14:37] <popey> for me, <IP_ADDRESS> ㋛
[14:38] <popey> for you, http;//popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/
[14:39] <kenvandine> popey, thanks!
[14:39] <popey> np
[14:39] <kenvandine> popey, what would i do without you :)
[14:39] <popey> probably setup your own mirror eventually
[14:44] <cwayne_> that sounds like a lot of work
[14:44] <popey> it's also a lot of space
[14:44] <popey> I need to run fdupes on it to make hard links rather than having duplicated clicks/snaps everywhere
[14:45] <mcphail> a click mirror? Do you have lots of apparmor-disrespecting goodies on there?
[14:45] <popey> unlikely
[14:45] <popey> its stuff that has already hit the store
[14:45] <mcphail> aah!
[14:45] <popey> and only the stuff that is not pay-for
[14:46] <popey> 140G	/srv/touch/clicks/
[14:46] <popey> :S
[14:46] <mcphail> wow
[14:47] <mcphail> that suggests the app ecosystem is quite healthy
[14:47] <popey> as I say, lots of dupes
[14:47] <popey> 140G	/srv/touch/clicks/
[14:47] <popey> oops
[14:47] <popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png
[14:47]  * mcphail hopes btrfs gets automatic deduplication powers soon
[14:49] <popey> mcphail: yeah, this is a btrfs volume
[14:50] <mcphail> popey: aliasing "cp" to "cp --reflink=auto" can help
[15:19] <cyphermox> popey: seb128: I have the fix for routing wired vs. wifi, I'm testing that right now
[15:19]  * popey hugs cyphermox
[15:20] <cyphermox> popey: https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ubuntu/build-tests/+sourcepub/4972466/+listing-archive-extra
[15:20] <cyphermox> if you want to give it a shot, it should be built soonish
[15:21] <popey> ooh
[15:21] <popey> I would _love_ to. thanks
[15:22] <cyphermox> I haven't tested the actual failure case yet (wiating for the build to finish), but it looks like it's using the proper metrics now, so I'm confident
[15:23] <popey> cyphermox: I'll let you know :)
[15:46] <SturmFlut> mterry: you might be interested in the comment to bug 1421455 I just submitted
[15:47] <mterry> SturmFlut, curious
[15:48] <SturmFlut> mterry: Well, if I look at all those strange kernel messages from Mediatek drivers, nothing seems curious anymore
[15:48] <mterry> :)
[15:49] <SturmFlut> mterry: I was thinking about the SD card as a source of problems. I follow linux-mmc and power saving for those things is just broken, it would maybe explain why different users see different delays, but then I realized that the original bug report came from a Nexus 4 and that one has no SD card slot.
[15:51] <SturmFlut> mterry: In the end it must be something introduced by Android or Mediatek, because the vanilla kernel apparently does not even accept "on" as a value to be written to /sys/power/state
[15:51] <mterry> SturmFlut, well the description for this bug says "This is not so bad on nexus4."  There are other wake/screen problems in Touch, but this specific bug seems to mostly hit the BQ
[15:53] <john-mcaleely> popey, may I ask a random question? What's the lp project for the file manager app
[15:53] <john-mcaleely> ?
[15:59] <BOHverkill> john-mcaleely: i think this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> BOHverkill, that does look right. thanks!
[16:00] <popey> john-mcaleely: BOHverkill is correct
[16:00] <BOHverkill> john-mcaleely: np
[16:00] <popey> incoming bugs?
[16:00] <BOHverkill> popey: ;)
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> popey, not this time. want to point someone at a place to contribute :-)
[16:01] <popey> \o/
[16:01] <popey> YAY!
[16:01] <BOHverkill> john-mcaleely: for the next time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers ;)
[16:01] <popey> also point them to me
[16:01]  * popey puts on his cape and swooshes out
[16:01] <john-mcaleely> :-)
[16:02] <john-mcaleely> BOHverkill, good page. thanks
[16:03] <BOHverkill> john-mcaleely: np ;)
[16:11] <SturmFlut> Is it possible to change the kernel command line of the device? Without breaking too much
[16:12] <SturmFlut> mterry: ^^
[16:12] <mterry> SturmFlut, I'm not sure how, to be honest
[16:12] <mterry> I guess you edit /boot/ stuff...
[16:12] <SturmFlut> mterry: Probably by changing either the bootloader settings or the bootloader itself
[16:13] <SturmFlut> mterry: /boot is empty on the phone :/
[16:17] <SturmFlut> mterry: I'm checking out the krillin kernel code, maybe I can find anything
[16:18] <mterry> ooph, good luck!  :)
[16:22] <greyback> SturmFlut: the "fastboot" tool has a "-c" switch that "overrides kernel commandline" - I'd be careful if I were you though
[16:25] <ogra_> SturmFlut, abootimg ...
[16:25] <SturmFlut> greyback, ogra_ : Thanks!
[16:31] <ogra_> SturmFlut, hmm, i might be wrong ... seems to not work on krillin
[16:33] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Yes, I just extracted the boot.img and there is an empty cmdline statement in bootimg.cfg
[16:33] <ogra_> SturmFlut, right, but not sure how to get that properly back in place once you changed it
[16:33] <ogra_> did you dd it out of the partition on the phone ?
[16:34] <ogra_> abootimg can change the commandline in place without extracting btw
[16:34] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Ah, wait a moment, I have to look around a bit more
[16:39] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Which partition is it on the phone? /dev/mmcblk0boot0? Can't find it
[16:39] <ogra_> ondra, ^^ ?
[16:40] <ogra_> ondra, is there a way for SturmFlut to dd the boot.img out of a device partition ?
[16:40] <ondra> SturmFlut which one are you looking for? boot image partition?
[16:40] <ogra_> yeah
[16:40] <ondra> ogra_ SturmFlut $ cat /dev/boot > /cache/boot_backup.img
[16:40] <ondra> it will read whole partition, including zeros on the end
[16:40] <ogra_>  /dev/BOOT i guess then
[16:41] <SturmFlut> ondra: My core goal is to pass the "debug" option to the kernel so I can maybe find this stupid power management issue
[16:41] <ondra> but no harm there, it's just 20M
[16:41] <ondra> SturmFlut you can then unpack boot image
[16:41] <ondra> SturmFlut easiest way to pass kern commands is to update little kernel
[16:42] <SturmFlut> ondra: Any documentation on that?
[16:42] <ondra> SturmFlut sorry it's actually /dev/bootimg
[16:42] <ondra> SturmFlut in recovery
[16:42] <ondra> SturmFlut hmm probably not
[16:42] <ondra> SturmFlut so probably easier for you to play with boot.img
[16:43] <ogra_> yeah, once you can dd/cat it to an img abootimg should be easily usable
[16:43] <ogra_> (and you dont need to unpack to set the cmdline)
[16:44] <SturmFlut> I will hate Google forever for not specifying a proper boot process for Android
[16:48] <SturmFlut> ogra_, ondra: Okay, I pulled the contents of /dev/bootimg, extracted it and the "cmdline =" in the extracted bootimg.cfg is empty as well. So I checked against the boot.img contained in device-0142302186687e3e48e6987283f6caf5d471a4160f98aa6a3cb7658f96471297.tar.xz (krillin r21 firmware file) and everything is identical.
[16:49] <ogra_> SturmFlut, ah, cool
[16:50] <ogra_> then you should just be able too use abootimg -u on it
[16:50] <ogra_> abootimg -u /path/to/boot.img -c "cmdline=foobar"
[16:51] <ogra_> and to unset it again
[16:51] <ogra_> abootimg -u /path/to/boot.img -c "cmdline="
[16:51] <ondra> SturmFlut yep, it should be identical
[16:52] <SturmFlut> ondra: But then where does the kernel get its default kernel command line from?
[16:52] <ondra> SturmFlut from little kernel
[16:53] <ondra> SturmFlut which is /dev/uboot
[16:53] <SturmFlut> ondra: Ah, I was wondering about this "little kernel" the whole time ;) It's just uBoot
[16:53]  * kissiel is away: break
[16:54] <ondra> SturmFlut yep
[16:54] <SturmFlut> How do I recover in the worst case? fastboot and a full reinstall?
[17:00] <SturmFlut> ondra: How do I write my new boot.img back to the device? Just stuff it in /dev/bootimg again?
[17:01] <SturmFlut> ondra: How do I write my new boot.img back to the device? Just stuff it in /dev/bootimg again?
[17:02] <ogra_> SturmFlut, if you just want to add something the boot.img is the less dangerous option
[17:02] <ogra_> SturmFlut, if you just want to add something the boot.img is the less dangerous option
[17:02] <ogra_> if you actually want to modify an existing value it gets more tricky
[17:03] <SturmFlut> Well, the goal is still to put the kernel in debug mode, just temporary
[17:03] <ogra_> yeah, i would use boot.img for that
[17:05] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I think there is a misunderstanding. I already used abootimg -u and changed the cmdline value. Now I have a new boot.img file, what do I do with it? Do I dd it back into /dev/bootimg?  What's the command for that? pkcon seems to complain about signature verification.
[17:31] <sergiusens> gingermouse: add --allow-unauthenticated
[17:31] <ogra_> gingermouse, pkcon install-local --allow-untrausted /path/to/click
[17:31] <ogra_> bah
[17:31] <ogra_> --allow-untrusted
[17:31] <ogra_> sergiusens, you are so snappy already :P
[17:32] <gingermouse> Thanks sergiusens and ogra
[17:32] <gingermouse> *_
[17:32] <ogra_> (--allow-unauthenticated is a snappy option. wont work with click)
[17:32]  * popey notes we lost --allow-untrusted from the /topic :)
[17:32] <popey> oh, it's in #ubuntu-app-devel :)
[17:32] <ogra_> popey, wrong channel perhaps ?
[17:33] <popey> haha
[17:33] <ogra_> :)
[17:33] <popey> ace
[17:33]  * popey walks away from computers for the day
[17:33] <Mike100> anyways what;s this channel for , ubuntu smartphones?
[17:33] <popey> this one Mike100
[17:33] <popey> and please don't do the dots thing
[17:33]  * k1l_ sets mode: popey +confused
[17:33] <popey> true dat
[17:33] <ogra_> low beer level ?
[17:33] <popey> wine and chilli tonight, and testing network manager :D
[17:34] <popey> o/
[17:34] <gingermouse> While I have you attentions, does anyone know how to make the X11 apps run on it like Will Cooke was doing? I think you need to add a PPA, but I don't know which one.
[17:34] <popey> willcooke: ^
[17:35] <willcooke> gingermouse, it's broken right now, we're fixing it
[17:35] <willcooke> then the plan is to get it in to the archive so you can apt-get install it
[17:35] <willcooke> caveat being it's not ready for general use, so expect further breakage
[17:36] <gingermouse> willcooke: I'm okay with breakage. I'm mostly trying to run hexchat since there aren't any IRC clients available.
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashed
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crash
[17:36] <Mike100> my ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crash
[17:36] <willcooke> sigh
[17:37] <gingermouse> =/
[17:37] <willcooke> gingermouse, the PPA is from mlankhorst in Launchpad, but will be moving soonish
[17:37] <gingermouse> Ah okies.
[17:37] <willcooke> once you've added the PPA apt-get update and apt-get install xserver-xorg-xmir
[17:38] <willcooke> then you can apt-get install X applications
[17:38] <willcooke> (bearing in mind you need to make the image writeable and expand its size)
[17:38] <ogra_> and that you lose all upgrade support ...
[17:38] <willcooke> and then you need a hacky shell script to launch things in the right order
[17:38] <gingermouse> Is it this one? https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[17:38] <willcooke> yeah
[17:38] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Okay, writing boot.img back to /dev/bootimg didn't break my device, but it also didn't boot with the new cmdline.
[17:38] <willcooke> but it's broken
[17:39] <ogra_> it will also break completely at some point, be prepared to re-flash
[17:39] <willcooke> yup
[17:39] <willcooke> it's really not ready yet :)
[17:39]  * ogra_ looks forward to get rid of apt on the images
[17:40] <gingermouse> Heh, I totally get that. I did try and get it working earlier by pausing one of your YouTube videos and copying the script/.desktop file
[17:40] <willcooke> gingermouse, once we've fixed it and it's in the archive then I will post on G+ with proper instructions :)
[17:40] <willcooke> gingermouse, the .desktop file is fairly generic, it needs to point the EXEC to a shell script which:
[17:40] <willcooke> launches Xmir
[17:40] <ogra_> snappy install xmir FTW !
[17:41] <gingermouse> As soon as that happens, I can maybe start using Ubuntu as a daily driver! +D
[17:41] <willcooke> :)
[17:41] <gingermouse> *=D
[17:41] <SturmFlut> ondra: Sorry for disappearing. Now, how to install my new and updated boot.img on the device? fastboot flash boot?
[17:41] <ogra_> SturmFlut, he said you should just cat it back
[17:41] <willcooke> script needs to: 1) launch Xmir, 2) wait for it to load, 3) maybe launch an X based WM (eg icewm), 4) launch the X application passing in the display number from 1
[17:42] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Hmmmm, I'll retry. It didn't have any effect the first time. Maybe I screwed up somewhere.
[17:42] <ogra_> did you check the boot.img with abootimg -i ?
[17:42] <willcooke> gingermouse, I'm going EOD now but email me, ping me on G+, ping me on here tomorrow if you need more info
[17:42] <willcooke> ta ta
[17:42] <gingermouse> willcooke: Thanks!
[17:42] <willcooke> np
[17:43] <Mike100> hello gingermouse
[17:43] <Mike100> my keyboard has some issues
[17:43] <Mike100> the enter key  stucks sometimes
[17:44] <ondra> SturmFlut you can do both cat it back, or fastboot
[17:44] <fredericc38> hi !!
[17:44] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I'll document this once I figure it out completely, this Android stuff is just horrible. As if it would have killed them to just give us UEFI on ARM.
[17:45] <SturmFlut> ogra_: according to abootimg -i the cmdline is correct.
[17:45] <ondra> SturmFlut just fastboot it then
[17:46] <SturmFlut> ondra: Will do
[17:46] <ogra_> SturmFlut, yeah, UEFI or even grub would be so cool
[17:46] <ogra_> one day we sell millions and millions of devcies and manufacturers open up the drivers for use that will happen
[17:46] <ogra_> in 10 years or so :P
[17:47] <fredericc38> I swap to touch since several weeks and I got a problem with crontab and syncevolution. Someone is confident with. thanks
[17:50] <ogra_> fredericc38, can you be more detailed ? what did you try, what didnt work exactly etc
[17:51] <ogra_> note that cron will only run when the device is not suspended
[17:52] <ogra_> it wont wake it up
[17:52] <fredericc38> ok thanks manually I can sync with my owncloud server (addressbook and contacts)but when I "crontab -e" my command line "syncevolution owncloud" that's working.
[17:53] <fredericc38> ok thanks manually I can sync with my owncloud server (addressbook and contacts)but when I "crontab -e" my command line "syncevolution owncloud" that's not working.
[17:53] <ogra_> did you check syslog for errors ?
[17:53] <fredericc38> there is no error in syslog.
[17:54] <fredericc38> I just can see that contab happen
[17:55] <fredericc38> @hourly /usr/bin/syncevolution owncloud
[17:56] <ogra_> did you try using a proper format for the time there ... instead of @hourly ?
[17:58] <fredericc38> yes.... same thing
[17:58] <fredericc38> but in same time I synchronize my picture with rsync and that's working properly.
[17:59] <ogra_> and you set the crontab up as the phabelt user ?
[18:00] <ogra_> *phablet
[18:00] <utu8o> is there a stable version yet? just wondering
[18:00] <ogra_> there are phones on slae, yes
[18:00] <ogra_> *sale
[18:01] <utu8o> this is made for convertible laptops and desktops too right?
[18:01] <ogra_> not yet ...
[18:01] <mcphail> fredericc38:  I don't think crontab fires whenever the screen switches off
[18:01] <ogra_> in a year or so ...
[18:01] <ogra_> currently it is only phones and tablets
[18:02] <utu8o> is the there touchscreen and desktop mode or just touchscreen?
[18:02] <ogra_> mcphail, fredericc38,  yeah thats what i said above ...
[18:02] <ogra_> cron will not wake up the devices
[18:02] <ogra_> utu8o, currently only touchscreen ... with focus on phones ...
[18:02] <utu8o> oh ok
[18:03] <ogra_> (and specifically the preinstallled phones that are/go on sale)
[18:03] <mcphail> ogra_: sorry, missed that
[18:03] <ogra_> :)
[18:04] <mcphail> fredericc38: remember all the usual caveats with cron: making sure you use full paths and are executing the commands from the correct directory etc
[18:08]  * mterry is having trouble getting anything to flash onto mako or krillin
[18:08] <mterry> anyone else?
[18:23] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I lost most of my respect for ARM the day I found out that they never specified a standard way to boot a system, and then I lost the little bit that was left when I found out that most parts of an ARM system do not support autoconfiguration and enumeration.
[18:26] <ogra_> SturmFlut, well, u-boot is a quasi standard since a while
[18:29] <wxl> hey folks, android device manager interacts with frameworks, right? cuz it sure doesn't seem to be able to detect my phone
[18:34] <SturmFlut> ogra_: a quasi-standard bootloader is no replacement for a proper boot specification and a proper firmware interface. Luckily we are finally getting UEFI and APCI on AArch64, but that wasn't ARMs own idea, other people had to force it onto them. I hate to say it, but Intel got that one right. It is nearly impossible to build an x86 system that won't boot a standard Linux distribution kernel. While it is nearly impossible to build a Linux kernel
[18:34] <SturmFlut> that will boot on more than one ARM SoC.
[18:34] <studio_> hi
[18:35] <SturmFlut> ogra_: That's why you can just put standard Ubuntu on a Windows tablet, but you can't put standard Ubuntu on an Android phone.
[18:35] <fredericc38> "<ogra_> mcphail, fredericc38,  yeah thats what i said above ..." but that's working with rsync....(sorry I was at the dinner)
[18:36] <studio_> how to use mirscreencast to make a "cast" on my own network?
[18:39] <SturmFlut> studio_: I remember an old e-mail on the mailing list about that, and from what I recall WiFi was not good enough for it in the end, the guy doing it had to attach an USB Ethernet adapter. Or something like that.
[18:39] <SturmFlut> studio_: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11787.html
[18:41] <SturmFlut> studio_: I think the best solution was https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11826.html
[18:41] <studio_> SturmFlut, i thought i can compare to raspivid, for raspberry and vcl. for exp: raspivid -fps 25 -o - -t 0 -w 600 -h 400 | cvlc --no-inhibit stream:///dev/stdin --sout '#rtp{sdp=rtsp://:8554/}' :demux=h264. but demux seems to be raw or tomething like that?
[18:41] <SturmFlut> studio_: I have no idea. I just remembered the discussion about it, have never used it myself.
[18:42] <studio_> SturmFlut, your example is not a live stream
[18:43] <SturmFlut> studio_: It is supposed to be, in the last e-mail I linked to he uses mplayer and calls mirscreencast in a while loop.
[18:43] <studio_> that guy is using nc
[18:44] <studio_> i'd like to make a broadcast
[18:45] <jcbjoe> im getting my nexus 4 soon and im wondering how is the battery life on it with ubuntu-touch
[18:46] <studio_> is "mirscreencast" just the name for a capture-tool or can it handle a "cast"?
[18:47] <anpok> the capture tool
[18:47] <studio_> ok
[18:51] <studio_> anpok, have you ever tried to make a live stream from your device?
[18:52] <anpok> iirc there is a problem with the tool right now
[18:52] <anpok> at least in vivid
[18:54] <studio_> i can't test in the moment, because i am on android right now. i was just reading about miraclecast and mirscreencast.
[18:54] <ogra_> studio_, i think you need to wait til the WIFI driver actually supports that mode
[18:55] <ogra_> WIFI AP mode and PTP mode will also get you miracast support ... once that landed
[18:56] <studio_> ogra_, i think i also have to wait for the "root less X" ;)
[18:56] <ogra_> no idea about that one, but currently the WIFI driver will definitely block you
[18:58] <studio_> i do not understand, i can dot do something like "mirscreencast -m /var/run/mir_socket" ... | cvlc ... demux=raw?
[18:58] <ogra_> the mirscreencast scripts on the ML can surely kind of serve as a workaround hack :)
[18:59] <ogra_> though yoou would have to find a solution for sound, i think the guy only did it for video
[19:00] <popey> cyphermox: <3 - looks fixed here!
[19:00] <studio_> ah, sound is the problem, sorry, i just thought about the video ...
[19:01] <popey> gstreamer can send audio over the network
[19:01] <ogra_> or bluetooth
[19:02] <ogra_> i doubt the script solutiopn is good enough for smoothly streaming movies or some such though
[19:02] <ogra_> but try it
[19:02] <studio_> bluetooth can send the video in 60fps?
[19:02] <ogra_> no, i was talking about audio +
[19:02] <studio_> ok :)
[19:04] <popey> you cant send video smoothly any way you do it
[19:05] <popey> mirscreencast on the bq can't capture fast enough
[19:05] <studio_> ogra_, for me BT and Audio-Streaming was never working from the bq E4.5 to my Ubuntu Desktop 14.04, is there a how-to?
[19:06] <ogra_> dunno, i never streamed to another PC ... it works flawless to BT speackers, my HIFI system and various other BT audio devices
[19:07] <studio_> you never tried to a Ubuntu-Desktop?
[19:07] <ogra_> no
[19:07] <studio_> :(
[19:10] <SturmFlut> ondra, ogra_: Oh, the joys of vendor kernels. Writing to /dev/bootimg will result in a kernel stack trace on my device. That's why it didn't work.
[19:11] <ogra_> lovely :)
[19:11] <studio_> hmm, i thought "ubuntu convergence" is the "magic word"?
[19:11] <ogra_> studio_, and what would convergence have to do with streaming audio via BT to another machine ?
[19:12] <studio_> convergence?
[19:12] <ogra_> yes ?
[19:12] <studio_> but it can not
[19:12] <ogra_> ?
[19:13] <studio_> try to stream audio from your bq E4.5 to you Ubuntu-Desktop via bluetooth
[19:14] <ogra_> why would i ?
[19:15] <ogra_> my desktp has a crappy sound system
[19:15] <studio_> convergence
[19:15] <ogra_> and why would that have anything to do with convergence
[19:15] <ogra_> i dont get you, sorry
[19:16] <Elleo> studio_: in a convergence usecase the phone *is* the desktop, so you wouldn't typically be streaming to another computer, just to normal bluetooth speakers
[19:17] <Elleo> studio_: or alternatively sending all the audio via MHL -> HDMI or somethin
[19:17] <Elleo> something*
[19:17] <ogra_> right, this isnt any "convergence" task ... just normal Bt connectivity
[19:17] <studio_> you can't. connect your desktop to your sound-system via toslink and stream from your bq E4.5 to your Ubuntu-Desktop
[19:17] <ogra_> (and perhaps a bug ... not sure ... forcus is definitely on streaming to headsets, car systems, HIFI or speakers)
[19:18] <ogra_> i'd call streaming to a desktop PC a pretty exotic usecase ... but i'm probably weird
[19:19] <studio_> ogra_, streaming audio from a mobile device is not "exotic"
[19:19] <ogra_> to a desktop ...
[19:19] <popey> to a chromecast maybe, to a desktop, nuh-uh
[19:20] <studio_> to a bt-receiver
[19:20] <ogra_> i stream to my HIFI all day ... and also have a small BT speaker i stream to
[19:20] <ogra_> and use a BT headset at times
[19:20] <ogra_> i have never in my life streamed to a PC
[19:20] <ogra_> (via BT that is)
[19:21] <ogra_> but file a wishlist bug ...
[19:22] <studio_> ogra_, maybe you never streamed audio to a "PC" but where is the different to stream it to a PC which is the BT-Receiver?
[19:22] <ogra_> i have no idea, please file a bug
[19:22] <popey> It does sometimes seem like studio_ comes up with the most exotic, obtuse ways to use devices.
[19:22] <ogra_> yeah
[19:22] <ogra_> s/sometimes//
[19:23] <anpok> well... regarding audio streaming..
[19:23] <anpok> audio playback through usb would be really nice
[19:23] <ogra_> you mean via DAC ?
[19:23] <anpok> yes
[19:23] <ogra_> yeah
[19:23] <studio_> popey, i allways ask "exotic" questions. exotic questions are right before time ...
[19:24] <ogra_> i fogot about it but wanted to file a bug ages ago that we get the right modules enabled
[19:24] <ogra_> anpok, mind doing that ?
[19:24] <anpok> file where?
[19:24] <ogra_> (will need pulse profiles too though)
[19:24] <ogra_> canoical-system-image
[19:24] <ogra_> pmcgowan can then triage it (low/wishlist or so)
[19:24] <anpok> oh so you think this is just a matter of module enablement?
[19:25] <ogra_> no
[19:25] <anpok> i thought we also need pulse audio settings and ui for that
[19:25] <ogra_> it is also a matter of pulse
[19:26] <ogra_> right ... to work on the pulse side we need the modules first though
[19:26] <ogra_> or USB_DAC support builtin ... or so
[19:27] <ogra_> i left my DAC at home, perhaps there is even already something enabled
[19:27]  * ogra_ can test next week
[19:28] <anpok> ok writing it down..
[19:28] <ogra_> (or if you have one, wire it up and watch dmesg ... and attach it to the bug)
[19:29] <anpok> hm i once plugged an usb head set.. I think alsa detected it..
[19:29] <buildit> are you for real?!
[19:32] <studio_> last question for today, i hope, can UT handle m3u or m3u8 playlists from the internet?
[19:32] <anpok> ogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1450170
[19:34] <popey> studio_: like streaming audio?
[19:35] <studio_> audio "and" video
[19:35] <popey> possibly, if someone wrote an app to find the audio/video stream and passed it to media-hub / mediaplayer
[19:35] <ogra_> studio_, no it cant
[19:35] <ogra_> i opened a bug for that ...
[19:36] <ogra_> (and ths time i *can* blame jhodapp !! hah !)
[19:36] <jhodapp> ogra_, hah, guilty! :)
[19:37] <ogra_> bug 1407693
[19:37] <studio_> popey, i do not understand. why the mediaplayer is not able to figure out it is an audio- or video-stream?
[19:38] <jhodapp> studio_, that feature (m3u playlists) is coming first...then possibly .m3u8 (http live streaming support) in the future
[19:38] <studio_> m3u8 in the future, but what is for now  with m3u?
[19:39] <jhodapp> not supported yet but coming
[19:39] <Elleo> popey / studio_: I have a half-finished shoutcast app that manually parses the m3u and passes the stream along to media hub which works fine
[19:39] <studio_> ok
[19:40] <jhodapp> Elleo, that's cool, soon you'll be able to simply load that playlist via QMediaPlaylist and have media-hub automatically use it for the current tracklist
[19:40] <Elleo> jhodapp: cool
[19:40] <jhodapp> by giving it the URL
[19:44] <popey> Neat!
[19:47] <studio_> Elleo, nice, but that is just a Scope for Shoutcast. My question was, how do i, as user, play my own m3u/m3u8 without a Scope, thaz is allways checking my connectivity?
[19:48] <ogra_> studio_, you write a scope that does that (by stealing Elleo's code and adjusting it for your use case) ... and upload it to the store
[19:48] <studio_> i never write a scope
[19:48] <ogra_> well
[19:49] <ogra_> then you will have to wait til someone else does it
[19:49] <studio_> i need apps, and not web-apps or scopes
[19:49] <ogra_> doesnt need to have to be a scope, you can indeed also write an app
[19:49] <studio_> why schoult i do that? write xmir for mir
[19:50] <ogra_> well, you want functionality that isnt there yet ... for such cases we give you an SDK to easily write an app
[19:50] <ogra_> either help yourself or wait ... these are the two options
[19:53] <studio_> armhf is working fine on X without Mir, you said you will enable that through a "Rootless X on Mir" ... but now it is not compatible ...
[19:53]  * ogra_ wonbders what that has to do with m3u playlist support
[19:53] <popey> (or pay someone else to do it)
[19:54] <ogra_> popey, was that a cheap try for getting extra pay ?
[19:54] <studio_> popey, if i "pay" for a bq E4.5, it will be compatible?
[19:54] <popey> with software that doesn't exist? sure. whatever.
[19:54] <ogra_> if you find a programmer who wants to do that and you pay him to explicitly write the app for the bq, sure
[19:55] <ogra_> (though it would be pointless to restrict an app to a single device ... especially with such an abstract SDK/framework)
[19:56] <ogra_> mpt, hey ho ... i recently seeded openvpn intho the images ... i was wondering if you already have any UI work for VPN settings
[19:56] <studio_> popey, and ogra_, i never "payed" for a software unter "Ubuntu" if i should pay, then i'll switch to another debian derivate
[19:56] <ogra_> studio_, you dont have to pay, you can write it yourself (which was the first thing we suggested to you)
[19:57] <ogra_> or you can wait
[19:57] <popey> you're missing the point completely
[19:57] <ogra_> and if you dont want to do either you could also pay someone ...
[19:57] <popey> 1) wait for software, 2) write software, 3) pay someone else to write software, 4) convince (with no payment) someone else to write software, 5) walk away
[19:57] <popey> those are pretty much your options
[19:58] <studio_> popey, ogra_ said "wait" so why i am missing the point?
[19:58] <ogra_> wow, you extended the list even !
[19:58] <popey> :)
[19:58] <popey> you missed the point because you implied that you _have_ to pay
[19:58] <popey> i never said you have to pay
[19:58] <popey> just that it's an option
[19:58] <ogra_> studio_, no, i said "write" ... wait is just the other option :)
[19:59] <studio_> ogra_, it was your idea to use mir, or not?
[19:59] <ogra_> ?
[19:59] <ogra_> for m3u playlists ... nah, i dont think Mir would work for that
[20:00] <studio_> no, i mean to use Mir (Canonical), that in the moment no x-app is useable under mir
[20:01] <ogra_> no, that wasnt my decision
[20:01] <ogra_> but if we wouldnt have switched to Mir we would have switched to wayland (like everyone else will soon) ...
[20:01] <studio_> not your personal, sorry, i mean the company
[20:01] <ogra_> Xorg is dead
[20:02] <studio_> if xorg is dead, why wayland support X ?
[20:05] <ogra_> (or as bad as Mir... however you want to put it, both are not done yet)
[20:09] <studio_> done yet, sorry i do not understand, the blueprints are from 2013, and it is still not "done"?
[20:10] <ogra_> it took years to write Xorg ... do you expect the replacements (like Mir or Wayland) will be faster ?
[20:11] <studio_> ogra_, no, i am just a dump "user"
[20:11] <ogra_> not sure what you mean by that
[20:12] <ogra_> running X apps isnt 100% done in either Mir or Wayland yet ... which is the reason they are not the default on any desktop yet
[20:12] <studio_> User means, why it is not working on "this" os, but it is working on "that" os ...
[20:13] <ogra_> can you point to that particular OS where Mir or Wayland are the default and suppport X apps ?
[20:13] <ogra_> to my konledge such a thing doesnt exist yet
[20:14] <popey> See also, the answer we've given repeatedly for about a month now. It's not finished.
[20:14] <ogra_> right
[20:15] <ogra_> once that is finished it will become default on desktop
[20:18] <studio_> ogra_, i am "allways" using "ubuntu" since 12.04. I have seen, that "ubuntu-15.04-desktop-amd64.iso" isn't the same as "Ubuntu Next". On Ubuntu 12.04 or 14.04 i was able to choose my desktop, for exp. xfce. but what on Ubuntu-Next? Is it the same Windows8?
[20:19] <ogra_> no, it will be like todays desktop (or similar) once it is done
[20:19] <ogra_> it is an exprerimental image for developers so they have a base to work with when i.e.  implementing support for X apps
[20:20] <studio_> ogra_, i hate Unity, Unity is not my Desktop!
[20:20] <ogra_> i cant help you then ...
[20:20] <ogra_> desktop next is the next unity desktop
[20:20] <ogra_> or will be ...
[20:20] <studio_> so ubuntu is switching to ms-windows
[20:20] <ogra_> ?
[20:21] <ogra_> ubuntu isnt switching to anything ... the desktop wont change much to how it looks and feels today
[20:21] <mterry> Are there any powerd / threading experts around?  I *think* I see a bug, but I don't trust myself
[20:22] <studio_> ogra_, how to change this unity-desktop on the bq phone?
[20:22] <mterry> bug 1450017
[20:22] <ogra_> studio_, not at all ... it is a phone
[20:22] <mterry> (specifically my comments)
[20:22] <ogra_> it isnt a desktop ... it is that simple
[20:23] <studio_> ogra_, why you allways say "it is a phone"? it is not, it is ubuntu!
[20:24] <ogra_> it is an ubuntu phone ...
[20:24] <ogra_> not an ubuntu desktop
[20:24] <studio_> no, it is ubuntu
[20:24] <genii> ...
[20:24] <popey> oh jeez
[20:24] <studio_> what is ubuntu-desktop on arm?
[20:25] <popey> a task
[20:25] <ogra_> no idea
[20:25] <ogra_> i dont think we provide ubuntu-desktop on arm anymore
[20:25] <popey> studio_: this line of grilling isn't winning you any friends you know?
[20:25] <popey> ogra_: ubuntu mate has a rpi2 edition :)
[20:25] <ogra_> that has been dropped when we stopped supporteing the panda board two years ago
[20:25] <ogra_> popey, yeah
[20:25] <popey> it flies :)
[20:25] <ogra_> i would guess it flies
[20:25] <studio_> i have seen, that ut is also available for the rpi, right?
[20:26] <popey> nope
[20:26] <popey> !devices
[20:26] <ogra_> studio_, so there is an ubuntu mate desktop for arm, talk to the mate people
[20:26] <popey> the supported devices are in that list
[20:28] <studio_> ogra_, where are the differents between ubuntu touch, ubuntu mate and ubuntu next?
[20:30] <popey> studio_: what's your point?
[20:30] <ogra_> studio_, we just explained the difference ... ubuntu touch ... is essentially ubuntu for phones ... (teh touch term will soon die) ... ubuntu next is an experimental version of the upcoming desktop for developers
[20:30] <ogra_> and mate is a community flavour ... you have to ask the maintainers
[20:31] <studio_> ogra_, sorry, i can't see diffences between Ubuntu-Touch an Ubuntu-Next
[20:31] <popey> Ubuntu Next has no Android container.
[20:32] <popey> because it's currently on desktops, where that's not required
[20:32] <ogra_> studio_, "touch" is ubuntu for phones ....
[20:32] <popey> but next and touch are similar, built from similar codebases
[20:32] <ogra_> ubuntu-next will become the next desktop once it is done ... in a year or so
[20:34] <studio_> popey, is there a "list" what devices supports "Ubuntu-Next"?
[20:34] <popey> no
[20:34] <ogra_> amd64 machines only as far as i know
[20:34] <popey> well, yes. "Computers with Intel GPUs"
[20:34] <studio_> so for what is ubuntu next?
[20:34] <ogra_> right
[20:34] <popey> a demo / preview
[20:35] <ogra_> 64 bit intel ... what the developers that work on it use
[20:36] <studio_> hmm, i am right faster on my desktops with a mouse on the normal desktop than on ubuntu next?!
[20:36] <ogra_> ubuntu next isnt a thing to use
[20:37] <ogra_> so that question is moot
[20:37] <k1l> studio_: ubuntu-next is a prototype. it is MIR + unity8. but its not for daily use.
[20:37] <ogra_> ask it again in 12 months
[20:37] <studio_> ogra_, how to use "Next" without a mouse?
[20:37] <ogra_> you dont use it ... very simple
[20:38] <ogra_> it is not designed for usage
[20:38] <ogra_> it is designed as a base for the desktop developers to work on
[20:38] <ogra_> in a year from now it will be ready for using it ...
[20:38] <ogra_> (probably a bit earlier ... )
[20:39] <studio_> ogra_, i have seen the videos on youtube, a mouse is quit faster, and i can switch the desktops with the mouse
[20:39] <ogra_> not sure what you mean
[20:39] <studio_> ?
[20:40] <ogra_> my mouse is as fast on one desktop as it is on the other ... if you want it to move faster, adjust the mouse settings
[20:40] <studio_> how to switch the desktops on ubuntu-next?
[20:40] <popey> it doesn't have multiple desktops
[20:40] <ogra_> i doubt you can
[20:40] <ogra_> since it is not for users at all
[20:40] <popey> because... altogether now...
[20:40] <popey> "It's not finished yet"
[20:41] <ogra_> it is an experimental thing for developers to have a base to work on
[20:41] <ogra_> if you are a developer and want to contribute patches, use it and write your patches on it
[20:41] <ogra_> every question beyond this use case i will not answer anymore from now on ...
[20:41] <jgdx> abeato, bug #1426923 — thank you!
[20:41] <studio_> i hope it will just be an "experimental thing".
[20:42] <popey> studio_: no, as he said, when finished it will be the default desktop
[20:42] <ogra_> in a year it will be the defaul tubuntu desktop
[20:42] <abeato> jgdx, np, we are trying to get hotspot in arale here in Austin ;)
[20:42] <studio_> popey. no, "please"
[20:43] <popey> ?
[20:43] <studio_> popey, i'll never switch between my desktops?
[20:44] <popey> switch workspaces?
[20:44] <popey> or switch desktop environments?
[20:44] <Elleo> studio_: no one's going to force you to use it, it'll just be the default, like unity7 already is
[20:46] <studio_> Elleo, Windows and Android only can show one desktop, also no multible windows at the same time. i thought it is different on Ubuntu-Touch?
[20:46] <popey> Workspaces, we call them workspaces.
[20:46] <popey> studio_: Listen.
[20:46] <popey> It's not finished.
[20:46] <popey> How many times must we say this?
[20:46] <jgdx> abeato, fun! :) Let me know how it goes.
[20:47] <ogra_> popey, you repeat yourself :P
[20:47] <k1l> studio_: please start reading what was answered you several times now. if you keep that attitude that you ask over and over again because you dont like the answer we need to ban you again because that is not the behaviour we want to see from our users.
[20:47] <abeato> jgdx, we'll do :)
[20:48] <popey> +1
[20:48] <Elleo> studio_: I'm not sure I understand the question? unity8 can show multiple windows when its in windowed mode
[20:48] <studio_> popey, as i said, i am asking for "exotic" questions.  :D
[20:51] <popey> -t
[20:51] <studio_> popey, i am talking about: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[20:51]  * mcphail splutters through his nose
[20:52]  * ogra_ hands mcphail a napkin
[20:52] <k1l> studio_: there is a delay on the logging bot. its updated every hour.
[20:52] <mcphail> thanks!
[20:52] <ogra_> :)
[20:53] <studio_> k1l, maybe, but there are still missing answers to some questions ...
[20:53] <popey> No. Just answers you don't like.
[20:53] <k1l> studio_: no. there are no missing answers. there are only answers you dont like.
[20:53] <popey> ^5
[20:53] <k1l> that is a huge difference.
[20:53] <studio_> popey, i am not talking about me ...
[20:54] <popey> wat
[20:54] <studio_> users
[20:54] <popey> which users?
[20:54] <popey> name one
[20:54] <studio_> read offline
[20:54] <k1l> so stop beeing rude just because its not running the way you want it to. you could help making it better, but you just keep wasting time of the devs.
[20:54] <popey> studio_: if you think we could improve documentation for other users, then we'd welcome help on that.
[20:54] <k1l> so if you have a question: ask once, and live with the answer.
[20:56] <studio_> k1l, please read the offline log. sometimes it makes no sense, because answers are missing and pplz say "ok" without explenation ...
[20:56] <popey> studio_: nobody reads those irc logs.
[20:56] <popey> other than strange people who like to stalk
[20:57] <popey> or people who want to go back and find something specific from a channel they were in on a particular day
[20:57] <ogra_> well, google reads them ...
[20:57] <ogra_> so you can look up past answers ...
[20:57] <popey> the poor guy at google who has to sit and index all of irc
[20:57] <ogra_> yeah
[20:57] <popey> i pity them
[20:57] <ogra_> i think it is more than one though
[20:57] <ogra_> more like 3-4
[20:58] <ogra_> google can afford that, they are a rich company
[20:58] <studio_> popey, i read them, because i "thing" i missed something. You store them, to trell pplz their mistake!
[21:00] <k1l> studio_: the logbot logs what is written in here. if there is something missing that might be due to irc network issues but is not intended. but lets focus on ubuntu-touch in here. thanks
[21:00] <studio_> k1l. np
[21:00] <popey> \o/ de-duped my click mirror, disk space usage is down from 140G to 3.2G
[21:01] <mcphail> popey: what did you use to de-dupe?
[21:01] <ogra_> popey, nice, we already have 3.2G of click ?
[21:01] <popey> 3.2 cumulatively
[21:01] <popey> clicks and snaps
[21:01] <popey> includes all past versions of apps
[21:02] <popey> mcphail: used a little python script I found http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/ANDK/Perl-Repository-APC-2.002/eg/trimtrees.pl
[21:02] <popey> works brilliantly
[21:02] <ogra_> you should fix the suffix though
[21:02] <popey> eh?
[21:02] <ogra_> unless it is a polish python script ;)
[21:03] <popey> oh, i said python
[21:03] <popey> i meant perl
[21:03] <ogra_> :D
[21:03] <popey> duh
[21:03] <Tassadar> polish python script, lol
[21:03]  * ogra_ got that but couldnt resist teasing you
[21:03] <popey> tlds[0]cur[4]uniq[4_123]fils[171_501]spcused[3_321_707_560]saved[145_691_376_536]
[21:03] <popey> thats all it spat out
[21:03] <popey> converts dupes into hard links
[21:04] <ogra_> ah, like fdupes we use in iimage builds
[21:04] <popey> yeah.
[21:04] <mcphail> popey: looks neat. I'll bookmark that one
[21:04] <k1l> so all the apps are just copy&paste'ed? :)
[21:04] <mcphail> popey: good to get my photos and music directories sorted out
[21:05] <popey> hah
[21:05] <popey> some are :)
[21:05] <popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png
[21:06] <mcphail> bit of a spike when krillin released
[21:06] <k1l> uh nice, i like plots :)
[21:06] <ogra_> will be curious to see if there will be spikes for the next phones
[21:06]  * mcphail needs to get to work on some apps
[21:06] <ogra_> +1
[21:07] <popey> there was a drop a few days ago because i removed a bunch of apps :)
[21:07] <ogra_> everyone should work on apps :)
[21:07] <popey> or scopes :)
[21:07] <ogra_> yeah yeah ... or scopes
[21:07] <mcphail> I'm still not loving scopes
[21:07]  * ogra_ knows that cwayne_ sits behind him ...
[21:10] <popey> ogra_: my flo is stuck at the google logo :S
[21:10] <popey> any suggestions what i can do?
[21:11] <Tassadar> kill it with fire!
[21:12] <Tassadar> or try to get to bootloader, if that's more your style, hold power until it reboots and then power+volume down
[21:12] <cwayne_> mcphail, any suggestions to make them better?
[21:12] <popey> then re-flash?
[21:13] <Tassadar> probably, assuming you can't get adb while on that google screen
[21:13] <Tassadar> and hope this isn't your case http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/04/19/reports-suggest-2013-nexus-7-units-are-failing-at-an-alarming-rate-not-likely-a-result-of-firmware-updates/ (tl;dr: lots of flos are getting bricked because the emmc just dies due to wear)
[21:14] <popey> i thought that was a nexus 7 2012 thing
[21:14] <popey> oh, 2013
[21:15] <Tassadar> 2012 had just slow emmc because the trim was kinda broken
[21:15] <popey> can't flash it from bootloader.
[21:15] <Tassadar> and, well, also slow in general, but then slower
[21:15]  * popey reboots to recovery
[21:15] <popey> yeah
[21:15] <popey> my 2012 is sat on my desk as a second screen
[21:15] <popey> only ever runs irssinotifier and that's it
[21:15] <Tassadar> mine is an youtube machine
[21:15] <Tassadar> *a youtube machine?
[21:15]  * popey flashes flo
[21:15] <Tassadar> an looks weird
[21:15] <popey> a
[21:16] <popey> y is a funny "vowel"
[21:16] <Tassadar> okay
[21:16] <popey> especially as the "a" is often pronounced "aye" so "ayootoob" is easier to say than "an yootoob"
[21:17] <popey> anyway
[21:18] <Tassadar> I'm kinda surprised my flo didn't die yet (knocks on the wood), considering how many OSes I install on it
[21:20] <mcphail> cwayne_: I think it would be good to have more visual feedback on what has happened if a scope doesn't update properly. And I'm not sure if a failure in one part of the scope causes failure elsewhere: in the Today scope my calendar appointments don't show if the news/weather doesn't load. I don't understand why that should be the case
[21:22] <mcphail> cwayne_: it is also difficult to swipe between scopes if there are a lot of swipeable panels on the scope
[21:23] <popey> also the date doesn't dynamically update
[21:23] <mcphail> that too :)
[21:23] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/today-scope
[21:23] <popey> bugs welcome ㋛
[21:23] <mcphail> popey: i think these things have already been reported...
[21:24] <cwayne_> mcphail, the vents not loading if weather doesn't hasn't been
[21:24] <cwayne_> first I'm hearing of that specifically
[21:24] <cwayne_> and that certainly should not happen :(
[21:25] <mcphail> cwayne_: mentioned in bug 1448783
[21:25] <cwayne_> oh, look at that
[21:25]  * cwayne_ is sprint-tired
[21:26] <mcphail> ha :)
[21:26]  * mcphail doesn't like to sound as if he is moaning. These are minor irritations in a great system
[21:26] <ogra_> mandel, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10945289/
[21:27] <ogra_> mandel, rather http://paste.ubuntu.com/10945292/
[21:27] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10945297/
[21:29] <cwayne_> mcphail, it doesn't come off as moaning at all, in fact, I appreciate seeing where we're failing (specifically with scopes) so that we can try and fix them :)
[21:30] <cwayne_> mcphail, are you seeing those bugs right now?
[21:30] <mcphail> cwayne_: I think the "Today" scope is particularly important because it is the "front page" on the phone
[21:30] <mcphail> cwayne_: from time to time I'm seeing them
[21:30] <popey> +1
[21:30] <popey> i woke my phone up and the date was 3 days out
[21:31] <cwayne_> popey, testing out the fix for that today
[21:31] <jcbjoe> popey: dod you have a n4 with ubuntu-touch on it ? and if so do you use it as a daily driver
[21:31] <cwayne_> undocumented stuff ftw
[21:31] <cwayne_> mcphail, next time you see that happen, could you please go into settings, disable the holidays scope, and try a refresh?
[21:32] <mcphail> cwayne_: will do, but a refresh usually cures it anyway
[21:32] <cwayne_> ah
[21:32] <cwayne_> well i suppose that's kind of good..
[21:33] <mcphail> cwayne_: I have been wondering if it loads more consistently if I have opened the calendar app on that boot
[21:33] <cwayne_> mcphail, hm, it *shouldnt* matter
[21:33] <mcphail> cwayne_: but that doesn't seem to be a 100% correlation
[21:34] <mcphail> cwayne_: I sometime pull to refresh a few times with no appointments showing. OPen calendar. Pull to refresh. *Bingo*
[21:34] <mcphail> cwayne_: may just be luck
[21:34] <cwayne_> mcphail, hm, and everything after events is blocked until events is shown?
[21:34] <jcbjoe> or anyone else .. does the n4 get good battery with ubuntu-touch
[21:34] <mcphail> cwayne_: yes
[21:35] <cwayne_> kyleN, ^ btw
[21:35] <mcphail> cwayne_: usually when one bit fails it all fails. The only exception is the sunrise/sunset which can fail independently
[21:36] <cwayne_> i swear we've fixed that bug like 15 times
[21:36] <cwayne_> but it keeps coming back :(
[21:36] <cwayne_> ssweeny, kyleN ^
[21:36] <cwayne_> tl;dr when a child's failing in today, nothing after it's loading
[21:36] <ogra_> jcbjoe, i guess it gets reasonable battery ... surely not as good as the bq phone with its average of 3-4 days though
[21:37] <ssweeny> i thought that was fixed
[21:37] <ogra_> the N4 is our test infrastructure device, but it doesnt get particular performance improvement love etc ...
[21:38] <ogra_> so it will likely be on an android level regarding battery life
[21:38] <ogra_> but not as good as it would be with proper optimization
[21:38] <mcphail> cwayne_: my phone is often used in difficult netwrok conditions. I may be an edge-case for scope loading
[21:41] <cwayne_> mcphail, well in that case we should be handling the edge cases better :)
[21:41] <cwayne_> ssweeny, yeah, i did too
[21:42] <mcphail> cwayne_: :)
[21:49] <pascaltux> te français ?
[21:50] <pascaltux> ubuntu-fr-touch isolé OK?
[21:56] <popey> hmm
[21:56] <popey> reflashed my flo and it's still only booting to the google logo
[21:56] <popey> i think vivid-proposed is broken for flo
[21:59] <ogra_> popey, jhodapp sits next to me and has it working fine
[21:59] <jhodapp> popey, I updated my flo to the latest image this morning
[21:59] <jhodapp> popey, what image #?
[22:01] <popey> i just flashed it with 186 from ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed
[22:02]  * popey needs sleep, will play more in the morning
[22:34] <jhodapp> popey, that explains it, I'm using 185
[22:34] <jhodapp> popey, 186 may in fact be bad
[23:37] <Dragonkeeper> theres a problem with browser on 15.04 when i click on multi selection drop menus the browser force closes


[03:35] <lino60> hi
[03:36] <lino60> <3
[03:37] <lino60> ;(
[03:39] <random> hi
[03:39] <random> <3
[03:42] <anno99> hi
[03:42] <anno99> ????
[03:42] <anno99> >3
[03:43] <anno99> <3
[03:53] <valorie> wth
[06:04] <chcknrub> i think the problem of the physical body is survival... but for the spiritual soul, it is spiritual battle, not survival...
[06:08] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:13] <StLukagon> good morrow me lord
[06:29] <chcknrub> so a human being has to fight 2 battles... physical (matter) and spiritual (time)...
[06:44] <lordievader> chcknrub: That is rather offtopic...
[06:58] <chcknrub> ^^
[06:58] <chcknrub> Zzzzz
[07:58] <noaXess> hey all....
[08:01] <noaXess> since some days.. or even last update i have problem with dual monitor.. have a laptop and a second monitor on VGA... if ext. monitor connected and i try to logout, kwin crashes: Application: KWin (kwin_x11), signal: Aborted
[08:01] <noaXess> have searched online.. but currently nothing found..
[08:01] <noaXess> if ext. monitor is not connected, no problem
[08:01] <noaXess> 18.04
[08:04] <noaXess> add. information: if i connect ext. monitor, the application dashboard opens on ext. monitor.. w/h problem... i still have to restart plasma, to get it on main/laptop monitor.. but if i then open app. dashboard, i get the kwin crash
[08:12] <lordievader> noaXess: Could you pastebin the output of `/proc/cmdline`?
[08:12] <noaXess> hey lordievader
[08:12] <noaXess> sure
[08:12] <noaXess> cat /proc/cmdline
[08:12] <noaXess> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.15.0-55-generic root=UUID=6b7de190-7ead-4c10-a132-1b227d87a847 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
[08:12] <noaXess> ups.. sorry ;)
[08:13] <lordievader> That looks fine
[08:13] <noaXess> yeah..
[08:13] <lordievader> What gpu do you have?
[08:13] <noaXess> yesterday i made a update of some packages.. and since then, this happens
[08:13] <noaXess> gpu.. its a hybrid.. nvidia/intel
[08:14] <noaXess> laptop asus n76vz
[08:15] <lordievader> What driver(s) are you using?
[08:15] <noaXess> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[08:15] <noaXess> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK107M [GeForce GT 650M] (rev a1)
[08:16] <lordievader> Could you pastebin the output of `lspci -k`?
[08:20] <noaXess> lordievader:
[08:20] <noaXess> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xthzcsxZx9/
[08:22] <lordievader> Did you happen to update your kernel?
[08:28] <noaXess> lordievader: uhm... i think it updated the kernel.. yesterday..
[08:28] <noaXess> where is the update log of last update?
[08:28] <lordievader> `/var/log/apt/history.log` or something like that.
[08:31] <noaXess> 23.7.19 was lastest kernel update to linux-headers-4.15.0-55
[08:31] <lordievader> Hrmm.. Is kwin the only thing that crashes?
[08:42] <noaXess> lordievader: what i see, yes
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:33] <Guest_21> Hi
[14:27] <viewer|66> Hello, I'm newbie for Kubuntu. How to connect to hidden network using Kubuntu 18.04.02?
[14:30] <BluesKaj> viewer|66, hidden network? more details please
[14:33] <viewer|66> I have to SSID network at my home, one can be tracked as available connection and the other as hidden wifi connection.
[14:39] <BluesKaj> are you trying to connect remotely to the wifi network?
[18:38] <user|57336> hi all
[18:38] <user|57336> I have a video with black bands
 hi all
 I have a video with black bands
 browser firefox
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/QULmNf4q/file_16812.jpg


[02:41] <tomreyn> heller: hmm, if you don't have /etc/default/grub this suggests that grub is not installed, which suggests your server is booting some other way - which I don't think Ubuntu would do (but a derivative might). I this a dedicated server, or a virtual (private) server, and if so, does it have its own kernel?
[02:41] <tomreyn> Actually, the system architecture would also matter in terms of how it boots. ARM systems won't boot with grub.
[02:41] <sarnold> I think grub is only used on platforms that smell kinda like intel
[02:50] <mwhudson> sarnold: arm64 boots with grub too
[02:50] <mwhudson> well, sometimes
[02:50] <sarnold> mwhudson: lol classic arm
[02:50] <mwhudson> servers do
[02:50] <sarnold> no two are alike..
[02:51] <sarnold> mwhudson: is that the ones with an efi implementation of some sort? or is that something else?
[02:52] <mwhudson> sarnold: yeah i was thinking of servers, those mostly boot efi -> grub
[02:52] <mwhudson> you can boot via tianocore on rpi4 i think?
[02:54] <mwhudson> well servers or, uh, network cards? https://www.mellanox.com/products/BlueField-SmartNIC-Ethernet
[02:54] <tomreyn> so... like intel
[02:55] <mwhudson> https://imgflip.com/i/5wap8l
[02:56] <mwhudson> well if you define "smells like intel" as "boots via uefi" then well
[02:57] <sarnold> I was thinking just amd64 and i386 kinds of things, and hadn't expected any arms of any sort to boot with grub, but it does sound vaguely familiar once you mention it
[02:57] <tomreyn> the number of compoentns which are *not* self-aware and make their own decisions is definitely going down.
[02:57] <sarnold> mwhudson: lol
[02:58] <mwhudson> tomreyn: for sure
[02:58] <mwhudson> tomreyn: how many arm cores are in my (intel ;-p) laptop i wonder?
[02:59] <mwhudson> sarnold: anyway yes, ppc64el systems boot via prep and s390x systems boot ... differently
[03:00] <mwhudson> i'm sure you can somehow boot s390x via tianocore and grub if you're determined enough
[03:02] <tomreyn> mwhudson: originally 7, but 3 were added on the supply chain
[03:03] <mwhudson> also it looks like risc v servers will be uefi + grub too fwiw
[03:03] <mwhudson> tomreyn: heh
[03:03] <mwhudson> i bet it's more than 7
[03:05] <tomreyn> maybe we just misunderstood the concept and it's really a whac-an-arm game
[03:05] <tomreyn> risc v with uefi, does this mean secure boot?
[03:06] <tomreyn> or rather ... mandatorily closed firmware
[03:06] <mwhudson> i don't know
[03:07] <mwhudson> it's not very obvious who would handle signing and such
[03:12] <tomreyn> well, let's hope for the best.
[03:12] <mwhudson> https://imgflip.com/i/5war2t
[03:12] <tomreyn> microsoft being the best, of course
[03:13] <tomreyn> hehe bernie
[08:00] <icey> hey jamespage, would you mind looking at the focal branch in https://code.launchpad.net/~chris.macnaughton/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+git/ceph for sponsoring? it's built on many arch's at https://launchpad.net/~chris.macnaughton/+archive/ubuntu/ceph-octopus/+packages
[08:28] <heller> soo lets try again. how to check if my network is okay?
[08:33] <heller> seems like ipv6 is disabled with the sysctl -w commands
[08:41] <heller> but when i reboot, it always comes bask
[08:41] <heller> back*
[08:45] <heller> ah, had to add the /etc/init.d/procps restart in /etc/rc.local
[08:45] <heller> wht is procps?
[09:03] <tomreyn> it says on its second line
[09:04] <tomreyn> and you'd configure sysctl settings in /etc/sysctl.conf.d/ to make them permanent
[09:04] <tomreyn> no need to have / edit /etc/rc.local for this
[09:11] <heller> It says nothing about conf.d
[09:32] <tomreyn> heller: sorry, it's /etc/sysctl.d/
[09:43] <heller> guide says etc/rc.local? :p
[09:47] <heller> guide says "One method to make this option persist is modifying /etc/sysctl.conf"
[14:00] <xnox> mwhudson:  so s390x cannot do tianocore+grub, but what suse do is this => normal looking zipl + kernel + initrd => which contains grub-emu and then does grub-emu based boot off the hard drives.
[14:00] <xnox> which imho is slow and borderline insane.
[14:01] <xnox> but it does give the end user / sysadmin the same experience, i.e. update-grub to change kernel cmdline, etc.
[20:24] <mwhudson> xnox: heh
[22:15] <ChmEarl> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1221747
[22:15] <ChmEarl> ^ latest xen-4.16.0 built in Jammy


[00:05] <holmanb> hmmm, yeah it looks like james mentioned in the bug why that's happening, just haven't taken the time to fix it yet I guess
[00:07] <minimal> I'm confused as the errors I see are regarding freebsd and systemd template files yet I specify "--init-system=sysvinit_openrc" so it shouldn't be looking at those (though as even the install --help gives that error I guess it's not to do with "--init-system"
[17:45] <holmanb> minimal: https://github.com/holmanb/cloud-init/tree/holmanb/render-template
[17:45] <holmanb> minimal: let me know if that fixes it for you
[17:50] <minimal> holmanb: thanks, testing shortly
[18:27] <minimal> holmanb: yupe, that's addressed the issue I was seeing. Great!
[18:41] <holmanb> Nice
[18:46] <holmanb> minimal: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/4564
[18:46] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 4564 in canonical/cloud-init "tools/render-template: Allow disabling yaml loading" [Open]