[02:30] <len-live> Tried installing our latest ISO ... ubiquity failed.. bug #1005350
[02:53] <len-live> For whoever cares, it appears that xfce4-utils needs to be removed from our seeds/metas. The packages that previously depended on it now "replace" it.
[03:18] <len-dt> I'm trying to remember who has the permissions to change our seeds/packages...
[03:52] <Len-nb> filed bug #1005379
[03:53] <Len-nb> I was unable to assign this to ubuntustudio-seeds
[04:06] <Len-nb> I have also filed Bug #1005381
[08:07] <ailo> astraljava: You have access, right? Maybe you could sort it out (read above)
[08:14] <astraljava> ailo: len-dt: I think affects is set to correct package, and assigned should be set to anyone currently working on the problem, ie. first whoever starts to fix it in seeds can set it for h[im|er]self, and then when it moves forward, whoever uploads and so forth.
[08:15] <astraljava> ailo: Oh, you meant actually fixing it in the seeds? Yeah, I've been meaning to do that.
[08:16] <astraljava> len-dt: That's actually a dupe, let me find the orig.
[08:16] <astraljava> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002250
[13:02] <len-dt> astraljava, Thank you for marking the duplicate bug. Thats why I list all my bugs here (that affect US anyway)
[13:04] <len-dt> astraljava, I am surprised it would affect the settings package though
[13:26] <astraljava> len-dt: I'll try to look into it this evening, so let's see.
[13:26] <astraljava> len-dt: But yeah, thanks for creating action in here, we need to pick up speed now. I think Scott will be available more soon-ish, too.
[13:27] <len-dt> astraljava, No problem, I didn't realize anyone had looked into it. Posting bug numbers when posted is helpful in that.
[13:27] <len-dt> s/posted/filed
[13:59] <astraljava> len-dt: Sure, but bugs are aplenty, and it's a bit redundant. And I'm not sure who are reading backlogs regularly anyway. :) That's why searching for existing is useful and recommended.
[14:00] <len-dt> astraljava, I will do mor work on the menu as well. I have the apps we ship in the right place, but I would like to try to include other commonly used programs as well, so that when the user installs them.
[14:00] <astraljava> len-dt: Also, you should be getting the bugmail as you're in the ~ubuntustudio-dev team, right?
[14:00] <len-dt> astraljava, I did do a search, but probably not the right search string.
[14:00] <astraljava> Yeah, things can still slip by.
[14:02] <len-dt> Actually I did not.
[14:02] <len-dt> I put myself on the team, but maybe that was after the bug was filed.
[14:04] <astraljava> Ok, let us know if you are not getting bugmail, though. It's sometimes a burden, but still overall helpful. :)
[14:04] <len-dt> I did get the duplicat report and the changes you made to the original though
[14:04] <astraljava> Oh that's good.
[14:04] <len-dt> I still get more spam than real email
[15:59] <ochosi> hey guys
[16:50] <astraljava> o/


[00:41] <cjohnston> coalwater: I need to get some clarification on the design guidelines
[00:41] <cjohnston> but your design doesnt match the rest of the site
[00:41] <cjohnston> daker_: any chance you could take a look at the second comment on your irc nick mp?
[03:42] <coalwater> cjohnston, could you explain here or in the bug what's wrong/missing
[14:39] <mhall119> cjohnston: nigelb: what would you think of me creating a Makefile for loco-directory and summit, to do things like setup a virtualenv and get all dependent branches?
[15:41] <mhall119> cjohnston, nigelb: staurtm wants to have a conference call with us next week to make sure the SSO deployment isn't going to break LD and summit
[19:17] <nigelb> mhall119: I'm cool with that. Just pick a time and I'll be there.
[19:48] <nigelb> daker_ / mhall119 / cjohnston: Oh god, so true http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/7/15/eppur-si-muove/
[19:48] <nigelb> (its about timezones)
[19:50] <daker> mhall119, yeah that would be good then we can just make a formula from it
[19:53] <mhall119> daker: that's what we do in loco-directory already
[19:54] <daker> you mean the INSTALL file ?
[19:55] <mhall119> what?
[19:55] <mhall119> I mean  in the database
[19:55] <mhall119> storing times in UTC
[19:55] <mhall119> what were you referring to?
[19:56] <daker> i mean the makefile
[19:56] <mhall119> oh, ok
[19:56] <mhall119> we don't have anything like that yet
[19:56] <mhall119> but I recently did it for an ISD project, and it worked pretty well
[22:27] <cjohnston> coalwater: the grey does not match the grey for the rest of the site as a starter
[22:28] <coalwater> it doesn't ? i got the hex code from firebug, from another class
[22:28] <coalwater> ok, could u sum all the problems on the bug, and i'll work on it
[22:30] <cjohnston> coalwater: for now thats all I have.. IIRC it was too dark of a grey.. I dont have it up right now.. use the same code as what is on the "What is the LoCo Team Directory" http://loco.ubuntu.com/about/
[22:35] <coalwater> ok, just updated the branch
[22:36] <coalwater> guess i used the footer grey
[22:36] <coalwater> don't remember
[22:36] <cjohnston> mhall119: do we have any update on getting django updated?
[22:36] <cjohnston> ty
[22:37] <cjohnston> mhall119: or nigelb any chance one of you can do the reviews of my branches so we can try to get an update pushed please
[22:37] <nigelb> Not today.
[22:37] <coalwater> cjohnston, if you get any other comments it would be better if you let me know soon before the new week starts, have a project which is a bit tight on schedule at work :D
[23:08] <cjohnston> daker_: daker, which ever you are, any chance you can do a couple review on my MPs please to help me get a release otu
[23:19] <daker> cjohnston, it's 00:19 i am going to sleep, i'll look at them tomorrow
[23:19] <cjohnston> lol
[23:19] <cjohnston> ok
[23:20] <daker> g'night.
[23:20] <mhall119> cjohnston: asking IS about django was on my list for today, but I got caught having to fix ISD stuff
[23:21] <cjohnston> g'nite daker... when you get a chance, check your mail on your branches
[23:21] <cjohnston> mhall119: ok
[23:21] <cjohnston> mhall119: I'm stuck waiting on you for a release :-P
[23:21] <mhall119> I know, I know
[23:22] <cjohnston> did you see the review?
[23:22] <mhall119> no
[23:22] <mhall119> my code or my review?
[23:22] <cjohnston> your code
[23:23] <mhall119> no, didn't see the review email
[23:24] <cjohnston> I reviewed your MP
[23:25] <mhall119> link?
[23:27] <cjohnston> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-directory/fixes-805280/+merge/66736


[00:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected mutter [source] (bionic-proposed) [3.28.4+git20200505-0ubuntu20.04.1]
[00:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: vlan (eoan-proposed/main) [2.0.4ubuntu1 => 2.0.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core, i386-excludes)
[00:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: vlan (focal-proposed/main) [2.0.4ubuntu1 => 2.0.4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core, i386-excludes)
[00:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: apport (focal-proposed/main) [2.20.11-0ubuntu27 => 2.20.11-0ubuntu27.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> vorlon, or anyone else: Would one of you be so kind as to kick off a spin of Ubuntu Studio Groovy for me? I updated the seed and metas, just crossing my fingers this time that the conflict is resolved.
[01:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[01:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[01:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected print-manager [source] (focal-proposed) [4:20.04.0-1ubuntu1]
[02:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted eog [source] (focal-proposed) [3.36.2-0ubuntu1]
[02:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libsecret [source] (focal-proposed) [0.20.3-0ubuntu1]
[02:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gnome-initial-setup [source] (focal-proposed) [3.36.2-0ubuntu1]
[02:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted vagrant [source] (focal-proposed) [2.2.6+dfsg-2ubuntu2]
[02:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gnome-desktop3 [source] (focal-proposed) [3.36.2-0ubuntu1]
[02:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted thermald [source] (focal-proposed) [1.9.1-1ubuntu0.1]
[02:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted evolution-data-server [source] (focal-proposed) [3.36.2-0ubuntu1]
[03:43] <vorlon> Eickmeyer: running
[03:45] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: Thanks again!
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1011.11]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1010.10]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [arm64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-30.34]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [s390x] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-30.34]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1010.10]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-30.34]
[05:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-30.34]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted gnome-control-center [source] (focal-proposed) [1:3.36.2-0ubuntu1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [amd64] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [armhf] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [ppc64el] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [arm64] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [s390x] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [i386] (eoan-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~19.10.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected nvidia-graphics-drivers-440 [i386] (eoan-proposed) [440.44-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected nvidia-graphics-drivers-440 [i386] (eoan-proposed) [440.59-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [armhf] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [arm64] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [s390x] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[07:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted netplan.io [i386] (bionic-proposed) [0.99-0ubuntu3~18.04.1]
[08:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: awscli (eoan-proposed/universe) [1.16.218-1 => 1.18.46-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-cloud)
[08:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: awscli (focal-proposed/universe) [1.17.14-1 => 1.18.46-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-cloud)
[09:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: awscli (eoan-proposed/universe) [1.16.218-1 => 1.18.46-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-cloud)
[09:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: awscli (bionic-proposed/universe) [1.14.44-1ubuntu1 => 1.18.46-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-cloud)
[09:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: awscli (xenial-proposed/universe) [1.11.13-1ubuntu1~16.04.0 => 1.18.46-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-cloud)
[09:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[09:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[09:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[09:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (eoan-proposed/main) [5.3.0-1019.21] (core, kernel)
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: sdformat [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [9.2.0+dfsg-4] (no packageset)
[10:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (eoan-proposed) [5.3.0-1019.21]
[11:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: at-spi2-atk (focal-proposed/main) [2.34.1-3 => 2.34.2-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[12:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: liburcu (bionic-proposed/main) [0.10.1-1 => 0.10.1-1ubuntu1] (core)
[12:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: subiquity (focal-proposed/universe) [20.04.1+git45g5f9fae19 => 20.04.1+git45g5f9fae19ubuntu0.1] (no packageset)
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted subiquity [source] (focal-proposed) [20.04.1+git45g5f9fae19ubuntu0.1]
[13:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pulseaudio (focal-proposed/main) [1:13.99.1-1ubuntu3 => 1:13.99.1-1ubuntu3.1] (desktop-core, i386-whitelist, ubuntu-server)
[15:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-release-upgrader [source] (focal-proposed) [1:20.04.19]
[15:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnucash (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.8b-1build4 => 1:3.8b-1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:53] <xnox> if casper is blocking any migrations retrigger with 1.446
[15:55] <LocutusOfBorg> (I'm boostrapping babel7)
[16:58] <tumbleweed> can an archive-admin remove syncthing-gtk, following Debian? It's blocking some py2 removal
[16:59] <Laney> tumbleweed: there's a special keyword for AA requests now, see the topic ;-)
[17:05] <tumbleweed> aha, ubuntu-archive: ^^
[17:06] <vorlon> not sure that special keyword was ever communicated to the AAs, I learned of it by way of a side conversation
[17:08] <cjwatson> I think this was failure to deal with AAs who were remote; it was discussed at the ubuntu-archive meeting in Frankfurt
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openxr-sdk-source [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3] (no packageset)
[17:52] <vorlon> tumbleweed: process-removals caught up, syncthing-gtk now removed
[17:55] <tumbleweed> thanks!
[18:43] <vorlon> Eickmeyer: vokoscreen has been superseded in Debian by vokoscreen-ng; do you want to update the seed to track the new version?
[19:00] <Eickmeyer> vorlon: Can do.
[19:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [riscv64] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [riscv64] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openxr-sdk-source [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [1.0.8~dfsg1-3]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sdformat [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [9.2.0+dfsg-4]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [riscv64] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sugar-log-activity [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [42-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[19:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted varnish-modules [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [0.16.0-1]
[21:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[21:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [s390x] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[21:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [amd64] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[21:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [arm64] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[21:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [armhf] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[21:14] <bdmurray> vorlon: Do you have any feelings about a speedy SRU release of ubuntu-release-upgrader fixing bug 1872902? It won't get tested when it is in proposed as its not possible to use 'do-release-upgrade' with '-d' and '-p'.
[21:30] <vorlon> bdmurray: no objections under the circumstances (though -d xor -p seems like a gap in our test coverage?)
[21:32] <bdmurray> vorlon: last time I thought about this it required another meta-release file
[21:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gxr [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/multiverse) [0.14.0-4] (no packageset)
[22:21] <bdmurray> vorlon: So if you could release then I'll go ahead and update the meta-release files


[00:00] <MobileDruif> Kids these days with their terminal windows...
[00:00] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, It's all yours :]
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> Who is here for the meeting ?
[00:00] <benonsoftware> o/
[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[00:00] <Unit193> I am.
[00:00]  * benonsoftware tells someone to do #startmeeting :P
[00:00] <JoseeAntonioR> o/
[00:01] <MobileDruif> Sort of
[00:01] <JoseeAntonioR> Who will?
[00:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> o/
[00:01] <Unit193> astraljava isn't.
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> Agenda is :
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> 1) Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> 2) Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> 3) Task assignment to people
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
[00:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 00:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[00:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
[00:02] <duanedesign> o/
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> Are we re-defining it again ?
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:02] <MobileDruif> Apparently
[00:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, We should change the Vision of BT. It should not be just helping the beginners enter the community. Moreover, we should make BT as the entry point for the whole community
[00:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> Missions should be updated like milestones to be achieved for each six months or an year
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> I am not sure the BT is going to be the entry point, team is too isolated
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> forums, LP, IRC, and askubuntu are the most common entry points
[00:04] <duanedesign> current mission: The Ubuntu Beginners Team exists to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users and to guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community.
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> Mission is to guide those new to contributing to the community to the various team
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> Mission should likely be "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
[00:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
[00:05] <bodhi_zazen> The first part of the mission "to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users" requires you all to be active on forums, #ubuntu, LP, and askubuntu
[00:06] <MrChrisDruif> So we are just nitpicking about formulation on the wiki?
[00:06] <JoseeAntonioR> Not always people are in #ubuntu, as it's too noisy. Also, askubuntu is a similar interface to LP, so mainly both of them are fine
[00:07] <bodhi_zazen> The BT is what you all want to make of it really
[00:07] <MrChrisDruif> JoseeAntonioR: I don't see how LP and askubuntu are similar in interface
[00:08] <MrChrisDruif> Forums and LP are more similar afaik
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> If you want to greet new users, to me that means active on forums, askubuntu, #ubuntu, and LP
[00:08] <duanedesign> the 'to enhance the initial experience of new users'  i thought was more for those who like to help out in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:08] <JoseeAntonioR> Well, in LP (for LP Answers) and in askubuntu you ask questions, and they're answered, the question being asked and tracked
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> I do not mind #ubuntu-beginners as a support channel, but I would suggest you *try* to enhance #ubuntu if you use IRC
[00:09] <duanedesign> whatever if we want to get rid of it fine
[00:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> most of the members in -team are not even watching the support channel of our team. Everyone should idle in the support channel too, so that they can help the people with issues (something which you have already solved or you can try googling) and learn
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> +1 IAmNotThatGuy
[00:10] <JoseeAntonioR> I think that's the main point. #ubuntu is too noisy for new users, and they can't read/understand what's told.
[00:10] <duanedesign> well if we reduce the mission to guiding people into the community we do not nees #u-b
[00:10] <duanedesign> need*
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> +1 to reducing mission statement
[00:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> If if you don't take a step to enter and 'watch the people'/ 'you doing' help, you are failing to help achieve the BT Mission
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> We can expand it if the team desires to expand it in the future
[00:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> [vote] Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
[00:11] <meetingology> Please vote on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
[00:11] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, We can use #u-b, where people can learn how to help. ;)
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:11] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:11] <duanedesign> +1
[00:11] <meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
[00:11] <benonsoftware> Can anyone vote for this?
[00:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> +1
[00:11] <meetingology> +1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
[00:11] <duanedesign> yes benonsoftware
[00:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, aye
[00:12] <benonsoftware> +1
[00:12] <meetingology> +1 received from benonsoftware
[00:12] <JoseeAntonioR> +1
[00:12] <MrChrisDruif> +0
[00:12] <meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
[00:12] <meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> any other votes ?
[00:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, remember, our team is open to everyone ;)
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
[00:12] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
[00:12] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[00:12] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Are any of the FG active ?
[00:13] <duanedesign> I think we should get rid of the FG
[00:13] <benonsoftware> Not that I've seen
[00:13] <IAmNotThatGuy> Ummm, well, why not give a shot with the vision statement bodhi_zazen ? :]
[00:13] <MrChrisDruif> Not that I'm aware of
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone think we need them ?
[00:13] <duanedesign> We do not really need the structure, whatever it is, that the FG gives
[00:14] <duanedesign> We can still guide people to the appropriate places in the community without the burden of maintaining the FG
[00:14] <IAmNotThatGuy> if we are planning to update the vision asn "an entry point to the community" we will need FGs
[00:14]  * benonsoftware has mixed opinions about that
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> [vote]abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:14] <meetingology> Please vote on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:14] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[00:14] <JoseeAntonioR> I have an idea for the FG
[00:14] <duanedesign> +1
[00:14] <meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
[00:14] <JoseeAntonioR> +1
[00:14] <meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> I think FG should start with a group of contributing members, not an idea
[00:14] <benonsoftware> +0
[00:14] <meetingology> +0 received from benonsoftware
[00:14] <MrChrisDruif> It was from back in the hay days that they needed some extra structure
[00:14] <JoseeAntonioR> We can abolish FG, but we can still be divided in specialities
[00:14] <IAmNotThatGuy> -1
[00:14] <meetingology> -1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> If you have an idea, present it in -team and build support
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[00:15] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[00:15] <IAmNotThatGuy> However, we can set a base line to teach people with the help of the FGs :[
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> If the team is so active so as to be disruptive to activity in -team, then, and only then, make a FG
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> any more votes
[00:15] <MrChrisDruif> +0
[00:15] <meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
[00:15] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. As you say bodhi_zazen
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
[00:15] <meetingology> Voting ended on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
[00:15] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
[00:15] <meetingology> Motion carried
[00:16] <duanedesign> I think instead of funneling people into FG we move them into Documentation Team, MOTU, Bug Control etc
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: FG need to be a lot more active
[00:16] <JoseeAntonioR> Yes, and we should still be 'divided' if that's the correct word in specialities
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
[00:16] <MrChrisDruif> I can't keep up on my phone, I'll leave you guys to it.
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Task assignment to people
[00:16] <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, Is there any mentoring peocess going on in each teams or the people are directly put into contribution and self-learned ?
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> I am not really into assigning tasks
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> either the team is willing to step up and accomplish / contribute or it should be abolished
[00:17] <duanedesign> i think what we can do is say to the user.  If you want to do bugs go to ubuntu-bugs. Then the BT member will be in that channel as well to continue to help the user
[00:17] <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: ^
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
[00:18] <Unit193> Right, or find another BT member that can "take over" in the sitting in with. (For example, I'd not do much good in a programming channel)
[00:18] <benonsoftware> When the time comes could I please quickly say something about the team wiki?
[00:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. I thought of making a proper channel of learning process through BT ;D If e get enough active members, I will put for this idea again ;]
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> any more comments about assignments ?
[00:19] <duanedesign> wiki is the big one
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> [topic]wiki
[00:19] <duanedesign> it needs a big update
[00:19] <benonsoftware> +1
[00:19] <duanedesign> i will be happy to work on this on the weekend
[00:19] <JoseeAntonioR> +1
[00:19] <IAmNotThatGuy> I was working on the FG pages. Now I have to stop it, remove and update the main wiki pages :]
[00:20] <benonsoftware> I'm happy to work on it when I have the time (should be most of the week)
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> How about if we ask the team as the next task to update the wiki
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> everyone can contribute
[00:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> aye
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> use -team for discussion if needed
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> got to start small, with something you can accomplish
[00:20] <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: you can just unlink the pages
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> build on success
[00:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, okay
[00:20] <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: keep them in case they are ever needed again
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> you can also mark pages for deletion
[00:21] <duanedesign> or that :)
[00:21] <duanedesign> benonsoftware: did you want to say something?
[00:21] <benonsoftware> Well, what should we do with the old FG pages?
[00:22] <duanedesign> i say for know just remove links to them
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> Ask anyone even remotely interested in the FG to update the page
[00:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> okay
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> If it is not updated within a month -> mark for deletion
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> you all as a team need to set some mutually agreeable goals and work together to achieve them, or there is no real team
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> start small
[00:24] <duanedesign> +1
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> discuss it among yourselves
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> on -team
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> build on success
[00:24] <duanedesign> anyone have anything else?
[00:24] <duanedesign> thanks bodhi_zazen
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> [topic]open floor
[00:25] <benonsoftware> Next meeting on the 9th of May?
[00:25] <JoseeAntonioR> And what about Mentorship? Is it also going to be abolished, or it's going to remain open?
[00:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> Is there anyone with any other topics to discuss ?
[00:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, yes
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I like all these ideas, if you want to do mentorship => wiki page please
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> and build support on -team
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> I honestly do not think we need meetings
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> most all of this can be done on -team and a set of wiki pages
[00:26] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: currently we do not have a mentorship. Membership in the team is open.
[00:27] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: though we could do both i guess. Have an open team and have mentorshps if someone wanted the extra support joining the community
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> We sort of need the team to build on small accomplishments, then aim for the stars
[00:27] <JoseeAntonioR> Then, let's see if someone points to the channel for this, in the case this doesn't happens then it's out of the line.
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I am not following you on that
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> You all have good ideas, but the perception I have is that we need to turn that energy into action
[00:30] <JoseeAntonioR> If not, then it'll stay as idle as it's now
[00:30] <duanedesign> yep
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> Exactly
[00:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> true
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> the BT has great potential
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> convert the potential into action
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> start small
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> which is why the mission statement has contracted
[00:31] <JoseeAntonioR> Step by step. We're on the first one, which is setting our goals
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> Everyone wants to support beginners, on #ubuntu-beginners or elsewhere
[00:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> okies
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> but we need to translate that into action
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
[00:32] <duanedesign> i think reducing the team structure back to the very basics will hopefully help.
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> I HIGHLY suggest ongoing discussions in -team
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> during the month == time for discussion
[00:32] <duanedesign> I think members are confused as to how things work
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> meetings = make a community decision
[00:33] <duanedesign> agreed. All discussion should mostly be done before the meeting
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> Some discussion is acceptable during meetings, but the majority of the discussion needs to happen between meetings
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> Example of what I see as a team effort ...
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> Let us assume IAmNotThatGuy  is interested in improving IRC
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: should join #ubuntu and serve as a facilitator to the channel
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: then can guide people interested in IRC to participate in IRC
[00:36] <IAmNotThatGuy> Gotcha
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> If the channel is too big, people get overwhelmed , use #ubuntu-beginners
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> fine, very valid point
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> who now will help ?
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> Say JoseeAntonioR is interested in wiki
[00:36] <duanedesign> the $65,000 question
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> Join wiki team and facilitate new users on wiki
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> Who is willing to help JoseeAntonioR ?
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> and on
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> build a team
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> build community relations
[00:37] <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, why not a 1 billion dollar? ;]
[00:37] <duanedesign> high roller
[00:37] <duanedesign> :)
[00:38] <JoseeAntonioR> It's basically a group/team work. If anyone helps, we will make big, enormous things.
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> team means you all work together and support eachother
[00:38] <duanedesign> +1
[00:38] <IAmNotThatGuy> _100
[00:38] <IAmNotThatGuy> err +100*
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> start small, build on success
[00:39] <IAmNotThatGuy> sure :]
[00:39]  * benonsoftware looks at scroll back :/
[00:40] <Unit193> And because you want to do IRC support doesn't really mean you have to be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-beginners at least, and add whatever DE you also use (#lubuntu or #xubuntu), I personally can't help with 1 Unity question as I've never used it, but I can help with the others.
[00:40] <Unit193> But don't just do it in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> Plus, use google if you don;t know =]
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> +1 Unit193
[00:41] <JoseeAntonioR> I agree with that, too.
[00:41] <duanedesign> thank you everyone who attended
[00:42]  * duanedesign is going to watch the rest of NCIS :) i will be in -team if anyone needs me
[00:42] <IAmNotThatGuy> bye duanedesign
[00:42] <benonsoftware> See ya duanedesign
[00:42] <IAmNotThatGuy> Anymore questions or topics to discuss before ending the meeting?
[00:43] <Unit193> IAmNotThatGuy: But, quality, not quantity.
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> I am going to have to leave as well
[00:43] <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, #endmeeting :]
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> I suggest we move the discussion to -team
[00:43] <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
[00:43] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 00:43:43 2012 UTC.
[00:43] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-00.01.moin.txt
[00:43] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-00.01.html
[09:59] <semut> haii
[14:00] <balloons> hello everyone
[14:00] <kanliot> hi
[14:01] <balloons> hopefully everyone is ready for the Ubuntu Qa meeting
[14:01] <balloons> I'll start
[14:01] <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
[14:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 14:01:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:02] <balloons> can we get a roll call of who's about and listening in?
[14:02] <astraljava> o/
[14:02] <kanliot> o/
[14:03] <astraljava> Well, it's +33% than the last time around. :D
[14:03] <balloons> astraljava, :-)
[14:03] <balloons> I was an hour early today
[14:03] <astraljava> Or is it actually +50%? I suck at math.
[14:04] <balloons> all the calenders just lie now that daylight savings happened
[14:04] <astraljava> balloons: What, you still don't have DST nailed down? :)
[14:04] <balloons> so let me grab the agenda and we'll get started
[14:04] <balloons> astraljava, nope..
[14:04] <balloons> clearly I don't
[14:04]  * astraljava snickers
[14:05] <balloons> hmm... no previous actions it seems
[14:06] <balloons> ahh.. wait..
[14:06] <balloons> there is one :-)
[14:06] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[14:06] <balloons> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
[14:07] <balloons> Looks like patrickmw isn't in here to answer sadly
[14:08] <balloons> let's move on
[14:08] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[14:08] <balloons> jibel, are you about?
[14:09] <balloons> guess not
[14:10] <balloons> I can give somewhat of an update :-)
[14:10] <balloons> So, planning has begun for next cycle and the first ideas are being floated for blueprints
[14:11] <balloons> As a QA team, we're in the home stretch now with RC iso testing remaining to do
[14:12] <balloons> ahh gema is here..
[14:12] <gema> yes :)
[14:12] <balloons> gema, I was attempting to update on ubuntu qa happenings
[14:12] <balloons> care to toss in a few words
[14:12] <balloons> I mentioned remaining iso testing, start of planning
[14:12] <gema> so we are in the final sprint now, trying to get the most critical bugs fixed and trying to spot any regressions
[14:13] <gema> starting tomorrow, it'd be good if we all tried to run the install test cases and some basic smoke testing once the system is installed (checkbox tests, maybe) so that we are sure
[14:13] <gema> we don't  introduce any regressions
[14:13] <gema> that's all from me
[14:14] <balloons> thank you gema!
[14:14] <balloons> any questions?
[14:14] <balloons> alrighty, moving on then
[14:14] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[14:14] <balloons> astraljava, let's have you start us off if you would
[14:15] <astraljava> Sure thing. For Studio, we're anxiously waiting for the new lowlatency kernel to land.
[14:15] <astraljava> A couple of other usability bugs are waiting to be squashed, but sadly our court uploader is rather busy atm.
[14:16] <astraljava> Just wrote to our mailing lists a show of hands/discs/usb sticks for RC testing.
[14:16] <astraljava> But all in all, looking good so far.
[14:16] <astraljava> For Xubuntu, not much to report.
[14:17] <astraljava> Some minor bugs are being reported every now and again, but nothing to worry about.
[14:17] <astraljava> ..
[14:17] <balloons> right.. and still shipping 4.8
[14:17] <balloons> awesome.. glad to hear things are finishing up nicely
[14:17] <astraljava> Yes, and most likely 4.10 won't make it for Q cycle either.
[14:17] <balloons> ohh, why's that?
[14:17] <astraljava> It's slow progress.
[14:18] <astraljava> But that's purely speculative.
[14:18] <astraljava> ..
[14:18] <balloons> kanliot, care to talk about lubuntu?
[14:18] <kanliot> thx
[14:18] <kanliot> everything is ok
[14:18] <kanliot> end of report?
[14:19] <astraljava> :)
[14:19] <balloons> kanliot, awesome
[14:19] <balloons> not sure if anyone from Kubuntu is about
[14:19] <balloons> but they had some big news come out this past week
[14:21] <balloons> kubuntu is going to be sponsored by blue systems, and riddell will continue to support and maintain it in that capacity
[14:22] <balloons> so congrats to them ;-)
[14:22] <astraljava> \o/
[14:22] <balloons> finally, anyone from edubuntu about who cares to give an update?
[14:23] <balloons> astraljava, did you have something?
[14:23] <astraljava> Oh, no. Just a hoo-ray for Kubuntu's sake. :)
[14:24] <balloons> ah-hah.. I figured
[14:24] <balloons> ok, let
[14:24] <balloons> let's move on
[14:24] <balloons> [TOPIC] Blueprint updates / discussion
[14:24] <balloons> not sure anyone has anything to add here.. speak up if so
[14:25] <balloons> you can see the overall status of canonical qa team here: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-platform-qa.html
[14:26] <balloons> overall, things look in great shape.. I was looking at the flavors as well.. xubuntu, ubuntu-studio both as almost complete
[14:26] <balloons> so kudos
[14:26] <balloons> anyone wish to add anything?
[14:26] <astraljava> Thanks, I'll pass on to Scott.
[14:27] <astraljava> ...and Pasi.
[14:27] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
[14:27] <balloons> last but not least everyone's favorite catch-all bucket
[14:27] <balloons> anything to discuss or mention?
[14:29] <balloons> well, my news is that as gema mentioned, I'll be doing iso testing tomorrow of the daily iso, and then running the checkbox tests, looking for regressions. I will send an email to the list with more instructions.. Further, having folks about to help answer questions for first-timers would be good in #ubuntu-testing (never a bad place to idle)
[14:31] <balloons> the idea is to do it on thursday until end of month release happens.. so if your not too busy with end of cycle activities, give it a whirl.. it's less pressure than traditionally iso testing, and you can pick what iso and tests to run :-) Every bit helps and happy regression hunting
[14:31] <balloons> that's it for me
[14:31] <balloons> if no one has anything else, we'll end
[14:32] <balloons> ok,thanks everyone for being here.. thanks kanliot for stepping in for phillw.. will we be seeing you for several weeks while he is out?
[14:32] <kanliot> yes
[14:32] <kanliot> :)
[14:33] <balloons> :-)
[14:33] <balloons> #endmeeting
[14:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 14:33:11 2012 UTC.
[14:33] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-14.01.moin.txt
[14:33] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-14.01.html
[14:33] <astraljava> Thanks Nick!
[14:33] <balloons> hopefully we can get everyone here at this new time astraljava :-)
[14:33] <balloons> last week was 8 folks.. so I think it is a better time
[14:33] <astraljava> Would be good, but these are busy times.
[14:33] <balloons> course I didn't show up
[14:34] <astraljava> Oh, did I miss last week then?
[14:34] <balloons> perhaps it's just me :-)
[14:34] <astraljava> When was it that there was only the two of us?
[14:34] <balloons> hmm.. I think perhaps you did
[14:34] <astraljava> Right.
[14:34] <balloons> I know I did
[14:34] <balloons> hah
[14:34] <astraljava> Oh right, yeah that's true. :)
[15:00]  * slangasek waves
[15:00] <infinity> o/
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 15:01:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[15:01] <ogra_> moo
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:06] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
[15:06] <slangasek> infinity bdmurray cjwatson stgraber doko barry ev ogra slangasek jodh
[15:06] <infinity> - Was at Collab Summit last week, then a 4-day long weekend
[15:06] <infinity> - Collab involved lots of interesting sessions, however the
[15:06] <infinity>   most interesting were beer-fuelled discussions involving
[15:06] <infinity>   EFI and pecoff signing, as well as (e)glibc conversations.
[15:06] <infinity> - Dealing (again) with ARMhf linker location, as this seems
[15:07] <infinity>   to have gone back to public bikeshedding mode when we
[15:07] <infinity>   tried to push GCC patches upstream. :/
[15:07] <infinity> - Worked on Tuesday on the above, and on a new eglibc upload.
[15:07] <infinity> ...
[15:07] <bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager bug reports
[15:07] <bdmurray> bug triage of initramfs-tools bug reports which received a spike in bug reporting
[15:07] <bdmurray> merge proposal for upstream apport for bug 972933 regarding /tmp free space
[15:07] <bdmurray> wrote some code comparing the package to team mapping data to packages we are subscribed to
[15:07] <bdmurray> created a bug bot function for commenting on no package confirmed bug reports
[15:07] <bdmurray> merged evfool's bug patterns
[15:07] <bdmurray> tried to recreate bug 918701 regarding ubiquity and orca
[15:07] <bdmurray> tried to recreate bug 500175
[15:07] <bdmurray> tested and fixed issues with collect-bug-data's caching of bug tasks
[15:07] <bdmurray> merged arsenal branch from chris arges
[15:07] <bdmurray> uploaded update-manager to oneiric-proposed (some changes in propsoed were lost due to a security upload)
[15:08] <bdmurray> tried to debug a failing update-manager test
[15:08] <bdmurray> holiday on the 6th
[15:08] <bdmurray> done‽
[15:08] <cjwatson> Short week due to Easter holidays.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Basic installation-guide update.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Reviewed/applied Andy's vt.handoff=7 tweak to grub2.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Fixed LP bug preventing publications from -proposed pre-release.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Gained direct LP landing privileges (though still subject to review, of course).
[15:08] <cjwatson> Some more multiarch cross-building fixes.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Fixed proxy handling bug 977812 in update-notifier.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Fixed some autopkgtest bugs in ubiquity.  Almost there.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Merged openssl for a VPAES fix.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Lots of installer translation updates.
[15:08] <cjwatson> Fixed EFI System Partition autodetection on GPT (bug 972122).
[15:08] <cjwatson> ..
[15:08] <stgraber> Very short week, was off on Friday and Monday
[15:08] <stgraber> - Installer
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Fixed bug 772470 and added support for Windows 8
[15:08] <stgraber> - ISO tracker
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Finished python module, wrote basic API doc/example
[15:08] <stgraber>  - New bugfix release of ISO tracker now in production
[15:08] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Minor LXC fixes
[15:09] <stgraber> - Networking
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Uploaded fix for isc-dhcp bug 974284
[15:09] <stgraber> - Gstreamer
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Fixed bug 964926
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Working on bug 966294, bisecting gstreamer to figure out what broke it
[15:09] <stgraber> - TODO this week (today/tomorrow)
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Hopefully find the source of bug 966294 and fix it
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Look at bug 873468
[15:09] <stgraber>  - Spend any remaining time on installer bugs.
[15:09] <stgraber> I'll be off Friday, Monday and Tuesday, back on Wednesday.
[15:09] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:10] <doko> - short week (two bank holidays)
[15:10] <doko> - final python 2.7.3 upload
[15:10] <doko> - icedtea-web fixes and upload, and bug triage
[15:10] <doko> - openjdk-6 update (currently in unapproved)
[15:10] <doko> - openjdk-7 update with the ARM assembler interpreter (built)
[15:10] <doko> - buildd watching, armhf will the first arch to finish the test rebuild
[15:10] <doko> (done)
[15:10] <barry> short week due to vacation last week; upstream python 2.6.8 final release; python 3 transition blueprint work, almost done with first pass through http://tinyurl.com/73tl8ca but please don't edit it yet!  i'll look again at bug 848915.  done.
[15:10] <doko> ohh, and started on a Linaro gcc merge
[15:10] <ev> - Short week; holiday on Friday and Monday.
[15:10] <ev> - Work on implementing Matthew's mockup of the crash database statistics site
[15:10] <ev>   (to become http://daisy-stats.ubuntu.com):
[15:11] <ev>   - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/error-reports.jpg
[15:11] <ev>   - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/most-common-problems.png (ignore
[15:11] <ev>     the first seen field - that's now a version number).
[15:11] <ev>   - Filed RT 51954.
[15:11] <ev>   - Built on top of Django, as this will be far more involved than the WSGI
[15:11] <ev>     services that handle crash and core file submission.
[15:11] <ev>   - Build out a set of Cassandra functions to retrieve needed information. To
[15:11] <ev>     be folded back into oops-repository soon.
[15:11] <ev>   - Create a 'most common problems' page based on Matthew's design.
[15:11] <ev>     - Use AJAX to get bug numbers for listed crashes.
[15:11] <ev>     - Use YUI3's datatable to provide sorting of columns and cell formatting.
[15:11] <ev>     - Use the logarithmic scaling from d3.js to help craft the frequency
[15:11] <ev>       chart.
[15:11] <ev> - Cowboyed fixes for retracing onto production with help from the webops team.
[15:11] <ev> - Organized going over to Acunu's offices this Friday to chat about their
[15:11] <ev>   analytics platform.
[15:11] <ev> - Tackled the problem of slow retraces in production (bug 973494). We're
[15:11] <ev>   currently only pushing through about 3 retraces per minute, which is
[15:11] <ev>   definitely not going to scale to meet our needs.
[15:11] <ev>   - Part of this was dumping the large core dump during apport-retrace, rather
[15:11] <ev>     than persisting it to disk again and carrying it into memory.
[15:11] <ev>   - Another part was not building a new apt.Cache and calling update() on it
[15:11] <ev>     every time we ran install_packages:
[15:11] <ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/973494/+merge/101353
[15:11] <ev>   - Finally, massive improvements were gained by adding a persistent sandbox
[15:11] <ev>     for the unpacked debs:
[15:11] <ev>     https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/cache_extracted_debs/+merge/101400
[15:11] <ev>   - We've since discovered that this last patch will break on packages that
[15:11] <ev>     use breaks/replaces to provide an alternative version of a binary, such as
[15:11] <ev>     libjpeg-turbo or apache2-mpm (the last installed package always wins).
[15:11] <ev>
[15:11] <ev>     I'm working on a fix that removes any packages that are in breaks/replaces
[15:11] <ev>     from the download cache. This will also need to handle virtual packages as
[15:11] <ev>     well.
[15:11] <ev>   - Fixed cleaning up of old .upload and .uploaded files with help from Marc.
[15:11] <ev>   - Shopped around Matthew's mock up to a few engineers. Trying to do this in
[15:11] <ev>     small groups so I don't get absolutely buried in feedback. I'll hopefully
[15:11] <ev>     send it to private-platfound@ before the end of the day.
[15:11] <ev>   - Disabled Wubi from the Windows autorun page.
[15:12] <ev>   - Fixed the autorun page not showing because Windows silently fails when a
[15:12] <ev>     --option is present in autorun.inf. Yay!
[15:12] <ev> - Patching activity-log-manager's privacy page to run initctl start/stop
[15:12] <ev>   whoopsie when enabling/disabling crash reporting, pointing the dbus service
[15:12] <ev>   configuration at the right path, and providing a parameter on the end of the
[15:12] <ev>   privacy policy (so that we can update that, if need be).
[15:12]  * ev breathes (done)
[15:12] <ogra_> you really expect us to read all that ?
[15:12] <ogra_> :)
[15:12] <ogra_> done:
[15:12] <ogra_> * merged compiz GLES patch as well as compiz-plugins-main GLES patch
[15:12] <ogra_> * wasted hours on getting the above right in the bzr branches (compiz has 77
[15:12] <ogra_>   branches, none but the UDD one carries upstream and packaging in the same
[15:12] <ogra_>   branch, updating to a new upstream (as happened today) means to shuffle
[15:12] <ogra_>   together branches and bits manually to get a proper diff (yes, i'm a whiner))
[15:12] <ogra_> * uploaded fixed version of the pvr driver which is in multiverse now
[15:12] <ogra_>   (should we consider using restricted for it ?)
[15:12] <ev> you damn well better! I wrote it all :-P
[15:12] <ogra_> * jockey support for the OMAP4 pvr driver is in the archive now as well
[15:12] <ogra_> * sadly the branch mess ate a lot of my time so that i have to postpone
[15:12] <ogra_>   finishing of partman-uboot to next week
[15:12] <ogra_> * vacation days here on the 6th and 9th so it was a pretty short week
[15:12] <ogra_> todo:
[15:12] <ogra_> * finish peer reviews
[15:12] <ogra_> * finish partman-uboot
[15:12] <ogra_> * finish ubuntu-core wikipage rewrite
[15:12] <ogra_> * look into fsck slowdown
[15:12] <ogra_> UDS:
[15:12] <ogra_> * have a spec about adding subarch support properly to dh_quilt_patch/unpatch
[15:12] <ogra_> (done)
[15:13] <cjwatson> subarch / dh_quilt_*> I think that would be better discussed in a bug report against Debian quilt
[15:13] <cjwatson> that way you're talking with somebody who's actually worked on the code before
[15:14] <ogra_> cjwatson, sure, that should definitely be coordinated work
[15:14] <ogra_> currently you have to hack around in debian/rules with overrides ... i would like to get rid of that
[15:14] <infinity> ogra_: I don't see it as a spec discussion at all.
[15:14] <cjwatson> well, I mean unless Raphael's there I don't think it's even worth discussing it at UDS, because we'll just all be sitting around making stuff up :)
[15:15] <ogra_> ah, k
[15:15] <cjwatson> the implementation's confined to one package, so it'd be better just as a bug report
[15:15] <ogra_> then lets call it a bug :)
[15:15] <infinity> ogra_: It's a flat out wishlist bug to JFDI, I see no downsides, and hence no need to bikeshed for an hour.
[15:15] <ogra_> yeah, right you are
[15:15] <slangasek> bdmurray: was 972933 the cause for the spike in initramfs-tools reports, then?
[15:16] <slangasek> doko: Linaro gcc merge> targeted for q, I hope?
[15:16] <doko> slangasek, yeah, and preparing one for -proposed to fix two ICEs
[15:16] <slangasek> doko: ok
[15:17] <bdmurray> slangasek: no there was only one where /tmp was full, some of the others are where /cdrom is full on a persistent media.  I'll have a change for apport to stop reporting those this week
[15:17] <infinity> doko: I may need to take your -proposed one and mangle it for -release if we have a 0-hour armhf ld.so change.  I don't want to ship a compiler that generates the wrong PI headers.
[15:18] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok.  that doesn't seem like something that's changed recently to cause a bug reporting spike, though?
[15:19] <bdmurray> slangasek: right, I think the spike was just due to more people using precise with beta 2 being out
[15:19] <doko> infinity, sure, if you get the rm approval, you know I'm not that trust worthy ;)
[15:20] <infinity> I happen to know a few RMs.
[15:20] <slangasek>  * swatted the last obsolete conffiles in the core; after eglibc gets uploaded, server should have a clean bill of health from jenkins
[15:20] <slangasek>  * followed through on
[15:20] <slangasek>  * fixed plymouth to switch back to vt1 when it exits, instead of leaving server users on VT7 (bug #913731)
[15:20] <slangasek>  * follow through on the new update-notifier interface, cleaning up a few small bugs that have been reported (bug #977178, #975426)
[15:20] <slangasek>  * fix an upgrade issue with nfs-utils (bug #954619)
[15:20] <slangasek>  * improved cross-build support in apt, and made the libs multiarch-capable again
[15:20] <slangasek>  * Upcoming: cross-distro call to try to finalize an armhf linker path
[15:20] <slangasek> ogra_: multiverse> I could've sworn I put pvr-omap4 to restricted... but the binaries went elsewhere.  Let me fix that.
[15:20] <ogra_> thx
[15:20] <infinity> The number of times I've used "finalize" in relation to that topic...
[15:21] <cjwatson> slangasek: the apt cross bug where it fails to resolve [] limitations with respect to the correct architecture is still outstanding, isn't it?
[15:21] <slangasek> cjwatson: yes, it is
[15:21] <cjwatson> right
[15:22] <jodh> slangasek: done?
[15:22] <slangasek> jodh: yes, sorry
[15:22] <jodh> * [misc]:
[15:22] <jodh>   - Off Friday+Monday due to Easter.
[15:22] <jodh>   - In London tomorrow.
[15:22] <jodh> * [boot]:
[15:22] <jodh>   - upstart: Fixed bug 974147.
[15:22] <jodh>   - plymouth: working on bug 553745.
[15:22] <jodh> * [planning]:
[15:22] <jodh>   - uds: Wrote blueprint
[15:22] <jodh>     https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-dpkg-pristine-conffiles
[15:22] <jodh>   - upstart:
[15:22] <jodh>     - exploring service readiness problem.
[15:22] <jodh>     - discussions and investigations on session management + multiseat.
[15:22] <jodh> ⟃
[15:22] <jodh>
[15:24] <slangasek> any other questions?
[15:25] <ev> jodh: you're coming to Millbank tomorrow?
[15:25] <jodh> ev: yo!
[15:25] <slangasek> speaking of blueprints... UDS is less than a month away now.  As you think of things that we should be discussing for next cycle, get blueprints created and targeted to uds-q
[15:25] <ev> jodh: wor
[15:25] <ev> word
[15:25] <slangasek> jodh: thanks for tweaking the restart behavior for 974147; I'll pick that back up again for merge review today
[15:26] <jodh> slangasek: np - thanks!
[15:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:26] <slangasek> ideally - none :)
[15:27] <slangasek> but there's always something...
[15:27] <bdmurray> I was thinking of bug 942539 and was wondering if we should implement a hack for that
[15:27] <cjwatson> I'm working on bug 941676, albeit in spare time as it's powerpc
[15:27] <cjwatson> the hacks for that aren't translation-safe, AFAIK
[15:28] <barry> slangasek: i just set you as approver of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-python-versions
[15:28] <slangasek> cjwatson: could we not batch-update the translations when making the change?
[15:28] <cjwatson> can't we sit on the desktop team to get that fixed properly? :)
[15:28] <slangasek> barry: ack
[15:28] <cjwatson> slangasek: I mean intrinsically unsafe since we need to determine experimentally how each individual translation wraps, including for each different flavour
[15:29] <slangasek> oh
[15:29] <slangasek> bdmurray: can you revisit that with seb128?
[15:30] <bdmurray> sure
[15:30] <cjwatson> the only hack we could do that I think is safe would be to remove the version altogether
[15:30] <slangasek> and if he's not going to have time (which is likely), maybe ask pitti if someone else on the team can take it
[15:30] <cjwatson> but UI freeze ...
[15:30] <slangasek> cjwatson: well, my assumption had been that if we replace the period with one nautilus handles word breaks for correctly, we could do that in both the English and in translations
[15:31] <cjwatson> oh, well that one is substituted dynamically anyway
[15:31] <slangasek> ok
[15:32] <slangasek> so wouldn't that be translation-safe after all?
[15:32] <slangasek> the bug is simply that nautilus is word-breaking wrong on '.'; we don't really want to micromanage the word-wrapping in general
[15:32] <cjwatson> yeah, that hack probably would be.  Is there a Unicode character with identical appearance to "." which isn't actually U+002E?
[15:32] <cjwatson> I was referring to things like the \n hack
[15:33] <slangasek> ah yes
[15:33] <slangasek> jodh suggested middle-dot, which isn't perfect
[15:33] <slangasek> we could render the whole version number in double-width chars :P
[15:34] <slangasek> well, getting nautilus fixed is obviously still preferred
[15:34] <cjwatson> I really think it should be identical in appearance
[15:34] <slangasek> yep
[15:34] <cjwatson> at least in the default font
[15:35] <slangasek> I'll take a sweep through Unicode; but we should try to just get nautilus fixed
[15:35] <slangasek> oh here we go, U+2493 :P
[15:36] <bdmurray> heh
[15:36] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
[15:36] <phillw> cjwatson: is http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/ff0e/index.htm any use?
[15:36] <bdmurray> bug 838091
[15:36] <cjwatson> there's U+FE52, which seems to have some odd width properties
[15:37] <cjwatson> phillw: fullwidth is problematic
[15:37] <jodh> I like the idea of putting the ubuntu logo glyph (U+E0FF) in the middle :)
[15:37] <jodh> a tad big, but memorable! :)
[15:38] <slangasek> anyone know how safe ntfsfix is? :P
[15:39] <slangasek> bug log says it's not really
[15:39] <cjwatson> I'm not sure, but I guess I can look at that bug
[15:39] <cjwatson> a link may not be the right approach; we may just need to silence the warning some other way
[15:39] <slangasek> so I think linking fsck.ntfs is probably the wrong answer
[15:39] <slangasek> mountall honors the 'check' field in /etc/fstab, right?
[15:40] <slangasek> er, the 'pass' field I mean
[15:40] <cjwatson> I thought we zeroed that for ntfs, but I'll need to check
[15:40] <slangasek> ok
[15:40] <bdmurray> ntfs-3g was updated in precise - bug 920545
[15:40] <cjwatson> yes, that was a fairly routine merge
[15:41] <cjwatson> it didn't add a fsck.ntfs link
[15:41] <slangasek> or an implementation that would be worth linking to, presumably
[15:42] <cjwatson> I'm not comfortable enough with my NTFS knowledge to make that decision independently of the Debian maintainer
[15:42] <cjwatson> for precise, I'd rather just shut up the warning
[15:42] <cjwatson> we seem to set pass=0 for ntfs, so I guess I can look into it some more
[15:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: mountall respects the pass field
[15:42] <cjwatson> it mightn't be unreasonable to special-case ntfs in mountall, so that even if pass is non-zero it won't complain if fsck.* is missing
[15:42] <slangasek> so that points to the installer
[15:43] <slangasek> or to user error when adding the fstab entry
[15:43] <cjwatson> partman-basicfilesystems (63ubuntu2) karmic; urgency=low
[15:43] <cjwatson>   * Don't check NTFS at boot, since we have no fsck.ntfs right now
[15:43] <cjwatson>     (LP: #441242).
[15:43] <cjwatson>  -- Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:44:55 +0100
[15:43] <slangasek> hmm
[15:43] <cjwatson> we have no upgrade handling for that
[15:44] <slangasek> tjaalton also reported that this didn't happen in 11.04, strangely
[15:44] <cjwatson> and I'd be more comfortable with a mountall hack than trying to rewrite fstab on upgrade
[15:44] <slangasek> fair enough
[15:44] <cjwatson> maybe something in the mountall stack got stricter
[15:44] <cjwatson> I'm happy to look into this; assigned the bug to myself
[15:45] <bdmurray> okay, thanks
[15:45] <bdmurray> Does anybody, mvo, know if the apt tasks in bug 659438 are necessary?
[15:46] <bdmurray> it's our hottest bug and the aptdaemon task was recently fixed so it'd be nice to get it off the list
[15:46]  * mvo looks
[15:47] <mvo> bdmurray: I can't mark it invalid myself, apt times out, but I do believe that the aptdaemon fix is sufficient
[15:47] <bdmurray> mvo: okay, I can take care of closing it then
[15:47] <slangasek> \o/
[15:48] <slangasek> mvo: while you're here... bug #938116 is assigned to you
[15:48] <slangasek> mvo: seb128 did it, not me ;)  Are you going to get to that bug for 12.04, or should we have someone else take a look?
[15:50] <mvo> hm, I have a vague idea what might be causing this, but it requires some serious effort to look deeper, one simple workaround would be to always refresh the cache when software-properties was run and returns a exit-state that indicates that something changes
[15:51] <cjwatson> oh, hey, looking at bug 441242 I see that mvo added support to update-manager to convert people's fstabs
[15:51] <cjwatson> so apparently some deeper issue here
[15:51] <mvo> I did? excellent!
[15:52] <mvo> maybe there is a bug in that code then? (also it looks like it has a proper test)
[15:53] <cjwatson> I suspect it's something entirely different
[15:53] <cjwatson> will need to reproduce or something
[15:55] <slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
[15:55] <bdmurray> slangasek: not today
[15:55] <slangasek> mvo: can you stash that workaround suggestion on the bug, and we can run with it?
[15:55] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Patch Piloting
[15:56] <slangasek> so our hit rate of patch piloting was much better for March than for February
[15:56] <slangasek> but not perfect :-P
[15:56]  * ogra_ is up tomorrow ...
[15:56]  * barry is up next tuesday
[15:57] <slangasek> so dholbach is threatening to withhold alcohol from me at UDS if we don't shape up
[15:57] <ogra_> lol
[15:57]  * ogra_ would like to see him manage that
[15:57] <slangasek> if something comes up that you can't do your scheduled day, you can always reschedule.. but please reschedule, don't just let it pass
[15:58] <barry> slangasek: should we fear sober managers?
[15:58] <infinity> I'm piloting today...
[15:58] <slangasek> barry: I would!
[15:58] <barry> :)
[15:58] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:58] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:58]  * dholbach hugs slangasek
[16:00] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 16:00:02 2012 UTC.
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-15.01.moin.txt
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-15.01.html
[16:00] <slangasek> thanks all!
[16:00] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:00] <barry> thanks!
[16:00] <ogra_> thanks !
[19:18] <cesilko> Hello, is anyone listening here?
[19:28] <Mkays|> Is there some kind of pre meeting again? :-)
[19:32] <cesilko> I don't know. I just wanted to find out if all these ~200 people here actually listen and what their motivation for being here is.
[19:33] <Mkays|> There will be meeting in half our
[19:33] <Mkays|> *hour
[19:33] <tumbleweed> cesilko: this is where Ubuntu teams have meetings
[19:34] <tumbleweed> so many people involved in Ubuntu development hang out here, rather than coming and going
[19:34] <tumbleweed> (also, we occasionally follow meetings we are interested in)
[19:34] <Mkays|> The next seems to be Lubuntu team meeting at 20:00 utc
[19:36] <cesilko> OK, thanks for your explanation guys. FYI, I am from NetBeans team looking for an inspiration. I apologize for disturbing.
[19:37] <Mkays|> You did not distrub  anything :-)
[19:58] <Unit193> You are sooo late, I've been here so long...
[19:58] <wxl> w/e
[19:58] <bioterror> Unit193, sorry, I'm half zombie
[19:58] <Unit193> (I joined 2 minutes before. :P )
[19:59] <wxl> pffht
[20:03] <gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
[20:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 20:03:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:03] <gilir> hi :)
[20:03] <StephenSmally> hi!
[20:03] <kanliot> o/
[20:03] <wxl> \@/
[20:03] <gilir> Agenda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:04] <Unit193> wxl: Your face is messed up.
[20:04] <Unit193> \ \o
[20:04] <wxl> Unit193: no, that's my new hairstyle ;)
[20:05] <gilir> some people are missing this week :)
[20:06] <gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:06] <gilir> phillw updated the wiki page about the uptades
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> o/
[20:07] <gilir> MrChrisDruif is missing, I will re-add the ACTION item
[20:07] <gilir> #action MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
[20:07] <meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
[20:07] <gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
[20:07] <wxl> mrman = frakken or whatever?
[20:07] <kanliot> hi
[20:07] <wxl> oops
[20:08] <kanliot> ubuntu team has aked us to work on the iso testing tracker
[20:08] <kanliot> and test the daily build tomorrow on regression tests
[20:08] <kanliot> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:08] <kanliot> also phillw just mentioned that there might be a problem completeing all the ppc tests on time
[20:08] <kanliot> end of report
[20:09] <gilir> thanks kanliot, let me know if there is any big problems when testing the lubuntu ISOs
[20:09] <kanliot> yes
[20:10] <gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
[20:11] <Unit193> Had one person/problem that thought the only way to get help was to insult the channel. No training events that I know either.
[20:11] <Unit193> wxl handled that since he was there, did well.
[20:11] <gilir> nice :-/
[20:12] <kanliot> i was there and handled it poorly
[20:12] <kanliot> ;)
[20:12] <Myrtti> I tried my best
[20:13] <gilir> well it's over, let's think about other stuff :)
[20:13] <gilir> thanks Unit193 :) I'll switch to the next topic if there is no question
[20:13] <Unit193> Think that's it, unless someone else has more.
[20:14] <gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
[20:14] <kanliot> hi
[20:14] <kanliot> for next week i'll try and get another update from mario on progress from osuosl
[20:14] <kanliot> end of report
[20:16] <gilir> thanks kanliot
[20:17] <gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
[20:17] <gilir> a couple a small fixes last week
[20:18] <gilir> there is still one fix for 3G modem that I need to prepare
[20:18] <gilir> after that, it should be quiet until the release I hope ("just" testing)
[20:19] <gilir> any questions ?
[20:20] <gilir> #topic Any Other Business
[20:20] <micahg> o/
[20:20] <gilir> anything to add ?
[20:20] <micahg> yes :)
[20:20] <gilir> micahg, yes ? :)
[20:21] <micahg> I had a lubuntu packageset created to allow for easier tracking of build failures that affect lubuntu
[20:21] <gilir> micahg, ah, yes that could be nice :)
[20:22] <micahg> at the moment it doesn't grant upload rights, but the DMB would welcome applications from people involved in maintaining these packages
[20:22] <gilir> micahg, what did you included in it ?
[20:22] <micahg> gilir: it's auto-generated from the seeds, so should include any universe packages in lubuntu
[20:23] <micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/lubuntu
[20:24] <gilir> micahg, thanks :)
[20:24] <micahg> you're welcome, I'm looking forward to reviewing DMB applications in due time from lubuntu people :)
[20:25] <micahg> err..applications for upload rights :)
[20:25] <gilir> I hope there will have some in the future :)
[20:26] <kanliot> what's a dmb
[20:26] <kanliot> ?
[20:26] <micahg> Developer Membership Board
[20:26] <kanliot> thx
[20:26] <gilir> kanliot, I'll prepare a mail about this, to explain with more details
[20:27] <gilir> it should be a source of motivation :)
[20:27] <gilir> anything to add before the end of the meeting ?
[20:28] <gilir> ok, thanks everyone :)
[20:28] <gilir> #endmeeting
[20:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 11 20:28:35 2012 UTC.
[20:28] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-20.03.moin.txt
[20:28] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-11-20.03.html


[07:12] <NCommander> Is anyone working on gstreamer0.10?
[07:48] <lool> NCommander: These were uploaded in Debian I think
[07:48] <NCommander> I see
[09:31] <lool> seb128: Re: shared-mime-info, I updated the upstream and added a recommends in glib :-/
[09:31] <lool> and a depends in evince
[09:31] <seb128> lool: what made you change opinion on the topic?
[09:32] <lool> mccaslen saying the distributors should require it
[09:32] <lool> I still think evince is broken (as listed upstream)
[09:32] <lool> and glib too, but that's another topic
[09:32] <lool> seb128: In fact, I'm still convinced that this is a broken situation
[09:33] <lool> But I don't want debian/ubuntu to play badly if that's an upstream expectation
[09:33] <lool> IOW, if you ask be about correct packaging, I think the recommends is a bad idea, but because I don't want to hurt upstream I'm adding it nevertheless  :-/
[09:33] <lool> seb128: You see, in the case of evince it's really a Depends
[09:33] <seb128> ok, I was just wondering if there was something which was discussed on IRC or something because the bug discussion is not far from what we discussed on IRC
[09:34] <lool> seb128: When we discussed it on IRC, I went to check whether there was a .spec in glib svn, but as there wasn't, I couldn't check whether fedora was requiring it
[09:35] <lool> It's really sad that they make it an upstream requirement like this, it's really not negligible for chroots or vms
[09:35] <lool> I even suspect it might introduce another build-dep loop when bootstrapping ports
[09:35] <seb128> it's only a recommends
[09:36] <lool> Yeah
[09:36] <seb128> you are not forced to install those
[09:36] <lool> I think they use a stronger dependency than us in the rpm packaging
[09:37] <seb128> well, technically if you want a 100% functionnal gio you need shared-mime-info
[09:37] <lool> So I'm really adding the dependency for upstream's concerns here, not for actually solving evince problem   :-/
[09:37] <seb128> if that the mimetype, icons, etc informations
[09:37] <seb128> s/if that/it has
[09:37] <lool> Yeah but not all apps need this and it's heavy
[09:37] <seb128> I don't think fedora for example cares about minimal environment
[09:37] <seb128> they think standard desktop installation
[09:37] <lool> exactly
[09:37] <seb128> it's not heavy in fedora standards
[09:38] <lool> and glib is used outside of the desktop these days
[09:38] <seb128> it's not heavy for a modern desktop and you want it on a desktop environment
[09:38] <lool> We're not speaking of glibc, but it's the same order of magnitude
[09:38] <seb128> they optimize for what is 99% of their usecase
[09:39] <lool> Like 11500 rdeps on libc and 2150 on libglib
[09:39] <seb128> maybe the debian packaging system lacks granularity
[09:39] <seb128> we should have Desktop-Recommends Server-Recommends Bootstrap-Recommends ;-)
[09:39] <lool> Well in this case we even have the possibility to detect apps using the explicit content type guessing api
[09:39] <lool> Just not via the variadic args
[09:40] <seb128> it's not used only for that though
[09:40] <lool> Perhaps I should only be pulling this instead?  hmm complex and not reliable
[09:40] <seb128> it's used for getting icons properties too for example
[09:41] <NCommander> hey seb128
[09:41] <seb128> hello NCommander*
[09:41] <lool> This is all quite unfortunate   :-/
[09:41] <NCommander> seb128, any news on gstreamer0.10?
[09:41] <crevette> hello
[09:41] <seb128> NCommander: "news"?
[09:41] <seb128> NCommander: like some news are expected?
[09:41] <NCommander> seb128, like someone fixed the FTBFS?
[09:41] <NCommander> or is working on it?
[09:41] <seb128> NCommander: I just come back from weekend care to give some context?
[09:42] <seb128> oh, it ftbfs, I forgot about that
[09:42] <NCommander> *is someone
[09:42] <NCommander> Yeah
[09:42] <NCommander> Nasty one too
[09:42] <lool> there's a new version in debian
[09:42] <seb128> slomo: any idea about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17880819/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.gstreamer0.10_<IP_ADDRESS>-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:43] <seb128> lool: I'll have a look to this one ;-)
[09:43] <lool> I'd guess the -scan causes memory corruption
[09:43] <lool> You'd need to valgrind it
[09:44] <NCommander> lool, this is why C is evil, and Ada should replace it
[09:44]  * NCommander runs
[10:13] <Keybuk> seb128: more evo problems today
[10:13] <Keybuk> unread counts in the folder list don't match the folder
[10:13] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[10:13] <Keybuk> I don't suppose there's a configure option to disable the silly sqlite stuff?
[10:13] <seb128> counts are known to be broken and no
[10:13] <Keybuk> I guess there won't be a fix for this before intrepid, since they've released now?
[10:14] <slomo> seb128: that's scary :) since when does it happen?
[10:14] <Keybuk> had another case of "folder contents in evolution don't match server" this morning as well
[10:14] <Keybuk> evo was convinced there were mails in the folder that were unread, server convinced the folder was empty
[10:14] <slomo> seb128: and did it happen with 0.10.21 too? (please sync all gst packages and what's the decision about new codec installation stuff now? bgigest problem are the translations in gnome-codec-install imho)
[10:14] <seb128> slomo: since this sync of gstreamer, I didn't retry since though
[10:15] <seb128> slomo: codecs -> mvo should know better
[10:15]  * crevette points http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543389 to Keybuk :)
[10:15] <seb128> slomo: all are stable updates?
[10:15] <slomo> seb128: yes, gst0.10-python 0.10.13 and 0.10.21 of core and base
[10:15] <seb128> Keybuk: was that issue in a folder which was working before? is the folder an inbox?
[10:15] <Keybuk> crevette: open bugs that aren't fixed *sigh*
[10:15] <seb128> slomo: ok thanks
[10:15] <Keybuk> seb128: the folder works fine on my hardy box
[10:16] <Keybuk> it's a Maildir via imap
[10:16] <slomo> seb128: if the failure is still there i'll take a look :)
[10:16] <seb128> slomo: thanks
[10:16] <seb128> Keybuk: worded differently, did this folder was showed correctly under 2.24?
[10:16] <slomo> seb128: also, please sync ugly later when i upload it to experimental :) important bugfix... same for ffmpeg ;)
[10:16] <seb128> Keybuk: or is it possible to be a broken index staying there since you used 2.23.
[10:17] <seb128> slomo: ok
[10:17] <Keybuk> seb128: I've wiped my summary db several times
[10:17] <Keybuk> most recently only last week
[10:17] <Keybuk> I can wipe it again and see what happens
[10:17] <seb128> Keybuk: is the folder an inbox or a imap folder?
[10:17] <Keybuk> imap folder
[10:17] <seb128> and do you modify the box by some other means while evolution is running?
[10:18] <Keybuk> only via other imap clients
[10:18] <seb128> ok, I'm wondering if that would be the issue
[10:18] <Keybuk> and tbh, probably not even then - since this is on the laptop
[10:18] <seb128> I've a similar issue on an inbox
[10:18] <seb128> and I start suspecting the fact that I clean this one use fetchmail regularly and that evolution doesn't like the folder to change this way
[10:19] <seb128> Keybuk: do you get some error on the command line when selecting the folder?
[10:19] <Keybuk> err, dunno
[10:20] <Keybuk> I'm currently wiping the .evolution directory :p
[10:20] <seb128> look into the .xsession-errors?
[10:20] <Keybuk> (evolution:18556): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJ
[10:20] <Keybuk> ECT (object)' failed
[10:20] <Keybuk> maybe
[10:20] <Keybuk> (evolution:18556): camel-WARNING **: Camel operation status stack non empty:
[10:20] <Keybuk> maybe
[10:20] <Keybuk> (evolution:18556): camel-WARNING **: Error during searching SELECT uid FROM 'Lis
[10:20] <Keybuk> ts' WHERE (NOT ((junk = 1))): no such table: Lists
[10:20] <Keybuk> but wasn't that folder
[10:21] <Keybuk> sys:1: Warning: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
[10:21] <seb128> right
[10:21] <seb128> Keybuk: that's http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550998
[10:21] <Keybuk> there's a veritable smorgasbord of scary looking errors here :p
[10:22] <seb128> or it looks similar
[10:36] <slomo> seb128: ok, ugly does not need to be synced, the patch was already there since 0.10.9-1 :)
[10:36] <seb128> slomo: there is probably some other interesting changes no?
[10:37] <seb128> slomo: syncing libgstreamer, base and python now
[10:37] <slomo> seb128: nothing critical was changed in ugly... and there will be new good/bad releases in 2 weeks with some really nice changes (early enough for intrepid?)
[10:39] <seb128> slomo: are those mainly bug fixes new version or disruptive ones? and will they roll pre-versions first?
[10:40] <slomo> seb128: there will be pre-releases this night... and they contain many bugfixes but also new features (and for example the fluendo mpeg demuxer and muxers are in gst-plugins-bad now)
[10:41] <seb128> slomo: new feature are not really an issue, what is an issue is disruptives changes to existant code which could lead to things not working correctly that users expect to be working ;-)
[10:42] <slomo> seb128: well, those kind of changes exist too unfortunately :) but then there's much testing (automated and manual) for regressions before the pre-releases become the real releases
[10:43] <seb128> ok, let's consider those when the pre-versions will be in debian
[10:48] <slomo> seb128: ok :)
[10:49] <seb128> the schedule is a bit tight for intrepid
[11:09] <slomo> seb128: btw, if the gstreamer build failure is still there it would be great if someone with access to those machines could try to reproduce it and give me a backtrace :)
[11:32] <seb128> slomo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18252719/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.gstreamer0.10_0.10.21-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:56] <didrocks> hi seb128 !
[12:56] <seb128> hey didrocks
[12:58] <didrocks> swfdec 0.8 is still in debian NEW, preventing from upgrading gnome-swfdec. Can we take it and reshape it for intrepid? (as this is a new package entitled swfdec0.8, the risk seems to be minor).
[12:58] <seb128> didrocks: do they have a vcs? in which case just take the packaging and do a fake sync upload
[12:59] <didrocks> hum, searching for it
[13:07] <didrocks> hum, nothing show that they are packaging it in a VCS :/
[13:09] <seb128> didrocks: do the update then
[13:09] <seb128> didrocks: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/swfdec0.8_0.8.0-1.html has a summary
[13:09] <seb128> use the same naming, etc
[13:10] <didrocks> ok, will try this out tonight ^^ (apparently, no special changes in the changelog)
[13:11] <didrocks> (btw, the naming is horrible, but there must be some reasons I do not understand, probably ^^)
[13:11] <seb128> what naming?
[13:12] <didrocks> for binaries packages: swfdec0.8_0.8.0-x...
[13:12] <seb128> well, that's source_version
[13:12] <didrocks> as the version number is used in the package name, it is repeated two times
[13:12] <seb128> they version the source name because upstream does it
[13:12] <seb128> and that allow to install a stable and an unstable version
[13:13] <seb128> not very useful for a distro but that's an upstream choice
[13:13] <didrocks> oh, that's the reason why the version is included in the package name? Ok, thanks for the info :)
[13:14] <didrocks> (having unstable and stable installation, with different package names)
[13:14] <seb128> right ;-)
[13:14] <seb128> ok, restarting to try changes and having lunch, be back later
[14:22] <asac> seb128: when will we get the glib fix for http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18258143/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-ia64.network-manager_0.7~~svn20081004t225044-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
[14:22] <asac> seb128: (we talked about that a while ago if you remember ... thought it was fix committed upstream)
[14:23] <seb128> asac: it has been commited upstream but they don't roll glib tarballs every week, we can backport the change if you think that's important, I was under the impression than nobody uses intrepid and network-manager on those archs though
[14:25] <asac> seb128: i think powerpc would qualify as a valid "NM" candidate
[14:25] <asac> seb128: i can also workaround in NM
[14:26] <seb128> would be better if you can do that for now, glib is on sync with debian and I don't fancy introducing ubuntu specific diff only to fix a porter arch issue if not required
[14:27] <seb128> asac: they will roll a new tarball for GNOME 2.24.1 before intrepid and you can drop the workaround then
[14:28] <asac> seb128: ok
[14:28] <asac> thats fine
[14:28] <seb128> asac: thanks
[14:33] <seb128> Ampelbein, didrocks, huats: anybody wanting to write the MIR required for gimp 2.6 or work on the f-spot 0.5 update?
[14:37] <didrocks> seb128: I can handle it :)
[14:37] <seb128> didrocks: which one? ;-)
[14:37] <didrocks> let's say gimp it will be my first, so, looking for some doc
[14:38] <seb128> didrocks: ok, gegl and babl need a mir then, that's documented on the wiki let me know if you want the wikipage
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, I was on the phone. Yes, if you have directly the wiki page (MIR search give back a lot of results)
[15:06] <seb128> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
[15:07] <didrocks> seb128: thanks a lot :)
[15:07] <seb128> you're welcome ;-)
[16:39] <didrocks> seb128: first MIR done (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusiongegl). I will open the bug tomorrow, when the second one will be done.
[16:39] <seb128> didrocks: ok thanks
[18:21] <dobey> seb128: it looks like ubiquity is broken, and the change cjw mentions only exposes the problem in the ubiquity tarball :)
[18:21] <seb128> dobey: could you join #ubuntu-devel and tell that to cjwatson directly? thanks
[18:22] <seb128> or reply on the bug
[18:22] <seb128> thanks for looking to the issue ;-)
[18:22] <dobey> i commented on the bug and marked it fixed, as i added an error check
[18:28] <seb128> dobey: ok, thank you
[18:29] <dobey> no problem
[19:21] <didrocks> seb128: swfdec is now done (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/swfdec0.6/+bug/279207), I made it a dependency of swfdec-gnome, merging the changes. I will try to do the swfdec-gnome package tomorrow. Jumping into some social life :)


[01:17] <TheMuso> Is there an FFE filed anywhere for the audio stack ucm patches? A quick review tells me that this is nfew functionality, particularly for alsa-lib.
[01:18] <TheMuso> s/nfew/new/
[01:22] <TheMuso> ...and for pulse.
[01:25] <TheMuso> I know this is for hardware enablement, but there is a lot of pulse and alsa code modified/added.
[01:50] <rsalveti> TheMuso: I don't think we have a FFe already for ti
[01:50] <rsalveti> *it
[01:51] <TheMuso> rsalveti: Right. I have also mentioned it in bug 746023.
[03:12] <GrueMaster> Should tis patchset be attached to the bug?  I'd also be interested in reviewing it.
[03:16] <TheMuso> GrueMaster: I can give you the URL if that helps.
[03:16] <TheMuso> Where I got them from.
[03:17] <TheMuso> I'd attach to the bug now, but I currently can't resolve Canonical domains.
[03:17] <TheMuso> GrueMaster: http://afuera.cortijodelrio.net/~ddiaz/paucm/
[03:37] <TheMuso> Ok nw that I have resolution of Canonical domains agin, I'll add the URL to the bug.
[09:55] <ppisati> "
[09:57] <ogra_> !
[10:04] <hrw> ~
[10:05] <rsalveti> '
[10:13] <hrw> ;
[17:22] <GrueMaster>  /
[19:38] <prpplague> ogra_: ping
[19:39] <prpplague> anyone familiar with the shutdown sequence in maverick for the omap4/twl6030 ?