[03:35] <amejia> superm1: hi
[03:35] <superm1> hi
[03:35] <amejia> superm1: this is the version of xbmc with the arm fixes
[03:35] <amejia> superm1: http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xbmc/news/20120420T030518Z.html
[03:35] <Zinn> [packages.qa.debian.org] Accepted xbmc 2:11.0~git20120416.a630a51-2 (source all amd64)
[03:35] <superm1> amejia: ah great
[03:36] <amejia> superm1: can it be synced for precise?
[03:37] <superm1> yeah should still be able to since it's not seeded anywhere
[03:38] <amejia> superm1: ok great
[03:42] <amejia> superm1: ok, well thanks again
[03:42] <amejia> superm1: i'm off to bed now, good night
[03:47] <superm1> night sure
[04:05] <superm1> amejia: oh i sent you libcec files to sponsor, did a test build in precise schroot though, i don't have an unstable one handy
[16:18] <qwebirc97858> Hello, I am having a 0.25 upgrade issue.  I just upgraded from 0.24 to 0.25.  After reboot and running mythtv-setup, it asks to upgrade from Schema 1296 to 1299.  I choose upgrade, and it ask to backup database.  Once the database is backup up to /tmp, it asks to run mythtv-backend.  Backend appears to start, but only for an instant.  Running mythfilldatabase says the database is not current.  Your assistance would be much
[16:43] <superm1> qwebirc97858: check /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
[16:43] <superm1> see if it talks about what's going wrong with the db upgrade
[16:44] <qwebirc97858> ok thanks on it now
[16:52] <qwebirc97858> would you like the raw text?
[16:53] <superm1> !pastebin
[16:53] <Zinn> when pasting more than 5 lines of data please use http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you don't flood the channel.  Then please post the link in the channel.
[16:53] <superm1> you can put it there
[16:53] <qwebirc97858> ok will do thanks again
[16:54] <superm1> sure
[16:57] <qwebirc97858> ok tried again and pasted the log file output in the pastebin
[16:58] <qwebirc97858> its a little long, I'm trying to figure out where it when wrong
[17:00] <qwebirc97858> Appears that this the problem:
[17:00] <qwebirc97858> Error (Performing database upgrade): #012Query was: ALTER TABLE videocollection CHANGE inetref collectionref VARCHAR(128) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_general_ci NOT NULL #012Error was: Driver error was [2/1054]:#012QMYSQL: Unable to execute query#012Database error was:#012Unknown column 'inetref' in 'videocollection'#012 #012new version: 1297
[17:00] <qwebirc97858> is this an issue due to the removal of myth video?
[17:03] <superm1> ooh that doesn't look good
[17:03] <superm1> you didn't post the pastebin URL, but you might need to check in #mythtv-users for someone to help recommend how to clean that up
[17:04] <superm1> i'm not positive the best way to go about it on a failed upgrade like that
[17:04] <qwebirc97858> here's the pastebin
[17:04] <qwebirc97858> http://pastebin.com/37BYvPmz
[17:04] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] qwebirc97858 - Pastebin.com
[17:04] <qwebirc97858> set to expire in 1 hour
[17:05] <qwebirc97858> ok will go to mythtv-users
[17:05] <superm1> was the upgrade interrupted the very first time?  maybe earlier in the log?
[17:05] <superm1> like before the snippet you pastebin'ed
[17:05] <superm1> it seems odd that it would fail like that
[17:06] <superm1> if it was actually interrupted, you can probably restore the latest backup from 0.24 before you started the 0.25 uprade, and start it over
[17:07] <qwebirc97858> ok i tried that using mythconverg_restore.pl
[17:07] <qwebirc97858> but i couldn't get it to work
[17:07] <qwebirc97858> ill paste what i got in a moment, give me a minute
[17:12] <qwebirc97858> ok so when I try to restore my backup
[17:12] <qwebirc97858> using the following command
[17:12] <qwebirc97858> mythconverg-restore.pl --directory /var/lib/mythtv/db_backups --filename mythconverg-1264-20120417080345.sql.gz
[17:12] <qwebirc97858> i get this: mythconverg-restore.pl: command not found
[17:13] <superm1> it's stored in /usr/share/mythtv
[17:13] <superm1> that script
[17:13] <qwebirc97858> yes i navigated to that directory in terminal and ran the command pasted
[17:14] <qwebirc97858> am i doing something wrong?
[17:14] <qwebirc97858> i also made it excitable using chmod a+x mythconverg_backup.pl mythconverg_restore.pl
[17:15] <qwebirc97858> *executable
[17:21] <qwebirc97858> ok i think i got it to work running perl mythconverg_restore.pl --drop_database --create_database --directory /var/lib/mythtv/db_backups --filename mythconverg-1264-20120417080345.sql.gz
[17:22] <qwebirc97858> ok trying to upgrade again....cross your fingers
[18:00] <superm1> if it's not in $PATH (as in that scenario), you need to execute it like ./mythconverg-restore.pl or like you did perl $FILE (where perl is in /usr/bin/ i believe, so it's in $PATH)
[18:32] <qwebirc97858> ok all done!
[18:33] <qwebirc97858> thanks for your help, it all worked out
[18:33] <qwebirc97858> now onto trying to get airplay to work....long term project
[19:06] <superm1> qwebirc97858: sure glad to help and glad it worked out.  good luck on the airplay! :)
[21:41] <superm1> amejia: it still failed on armel
[21:41] <superm1> fortunately caught before the sync was done
[21:42] <superm1> amejia: fwd'ed you the build log if you want to look closer.  but it looks like it failed in experimental as well


[11:34] <doko> man-di: could you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ant/+bug/207105/ according the manpage the report is correct
[12:05] <man-di> doko: report looks correct at first sight
[13:34] <man-di> doko: I have put this on my TODO for deeper looking
[13:35] <doko> seems to be upstream, not introduces by packaging
[13:41] <man-di> yes


[03:20] <mnajem> hi
[06:47] <leoncutz> hello there. perlukan bantuan plz...
[06:48] <leoncutz> i am very new here. i just install ubuntu yesterday but not its corrupted & i need to reinstall or uninstall it but don't know how
[06:50] <leoncutz> anyone there
[06:53] <ApOgEE__> salam
[06:54] <leoncutz> anyone here pls?
[06:55] <ApOgEE> hi leoncutz
[06:55] <ApOgEE> how can I help you?
[06:55] <leoncutz> hi apogee
[06:55] <ApOgEE> hi leoncutz , wusup?
[06:56] <leoncutz> i am very new to ubuntu. i only install it yesterday. however the installation is corrupted. my screen keeps flickering
[06:56] <leoncutz> what should i do? uninstal it & reinstall it again?
[06:56] <ApOgEE> have u tried the livecd? is it working?
[06:57] <leoncutz> but i do not know how to either reinstall or uninstall it
[06:57] <ApOgEE> I suggest u try using the livecd first
[06:57] <leoncutz> i dloaded it fm the net & burn it to my cd. then i successfully install ot
[06:57] <ApOgEE> if everything is OK, then u can install it
[06:57] <leoncutz> it
[06:58] <leoncutz> yes the live cd was working fine
[06:58] <leoncutz> then i install it alongside my currnet window 7 operating system
[06:58] <ApOgEE> to reinstall, you can simply run the livecd, open gparted and delete your previous installed partition
[06:58] <leoncutz> now should i uninstall it ot reinstall it again?
[06:59] <ApOgEE> then install it again
[06:59] <leoncutz> i am very sorry but i am VERY new to this operating system
[06:59] <leoncutz> but how do i reinstall it on the same partition pls?
[06:59] <ApOgEE> how the previous installation corrupted?
[07:00] <leoncutz> it was working fine at 1st. then i uopdated the drivers and it was working fine
[07:00] <ApOgEE> ok, here is the step. reboot your computer and run the livecd
[07:00] <leoncutz> btu after few hrs, the screen keeps flickering
[07:00] <leoncutz> ok
[07:01] <leoncutz> then
[07:01] <ApOgEE> then, you go to System > Administration > Partition Editor
[07:01] <ApOgEE> select the partition you previously install ubuntu and delete them
[07:02] <ApOgEE> how many hdd you have on this computer?
[07:02] <leoncutz> when i boot up the livecd, do i go into demo?
[07:02] <ApOgEE> yes
[07:03] <ApOgEE> go to demo ... it will run ubuntu without any change to your HDD
[07:03] <ApOgEE> then, you can delete/modify your HDD from there
[07:03] <leoncutz> i only hv 1 hdd. which i partition into 2
[07:04] <ApOgEE> good, so you know where you previously install your ubuntu
[07:04] <ApOgEE> just open the Partition Editor and delete your previous installation
[07:04] <leoncutz> ok then how  do i reinstall it to the same partition or do i need to resize my partition?
[07:05] <ApOgEE> after that, you may close your Partition Editor and click on Install icon on the desktop
[07:05] <ApOgEE> follow the instruction and you are done
[07:05] <leoncutz> tks so much
[07:06] <ApOgEE> after u delete your previous installation partition, it will be unpartitioned
[07:07] <ApOgEE> therefore, from your ubuntu installer, it will ask you where to install them and you can select that free space
[07:07] <leoncutz> tks again u. r u malaysian? how do i contact you if i need assistance in ubuntu. i got alot to learn here
[07:07] <ApOgEE> for new installation
[07:07] <ApOgEE> I'm Malaysian
[07:07] <ApOgEE> my blog is http://coderstalk.blogspot.com
[07:07] <leoncutz> u hv been such a great help
[07:08] <ApOgEE> the fastest way to contact me is thru my facebook... http://www.facebook.com/m.fauzilkamil
[07:08] <ApOgEE> you can also post question on ubuntu Malaysia mailing list...
[07:08] <ApOgEE> there will be more people there to help you
[07:09] <leoncutz> tks much
[07:10] <ApOgEE> here is the link to join our mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-my
[07:10] <ApOgEE> you can post your question there, or search if your question is already asked/answered
[07:11] <ApOgEE> we also have forum at http://forums.ubuntu.com.my/
[07:11] <ApOgEE> u are lucky because I'm here by the time u come here...
[07:11] <leoncutz> ok tks man
[07:11] <leoncutz> yes i was very lucky.
[07:11] <ApOgEE> but i'm not always monitoring this channel at this time
[07:11] <leoncutz> i was really going crazy googling the web
[07:12] <ApOgEE> normally at night, after office hour
[07:12] <ApOgEE> ;)
[07:12] <ApOgEE> no problem leoncutz , be my guest... I really love to help new ubuntu user
[07:13] <leoncutz> i really am interested in learning ubuntu but i do not hv any friends using it
[07:13] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: where r u from?
[07:13] <leoncutz> i am in kl, setapak
[07:14] <ApOgEE> be my friend, I'm from Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team... come and join us!
[07:14] <leoncutz> do u hv anyone here who are ubuntu users in setapak
[07:14] <leoncutz> how do i join u guys?
[07:14] <ApOgEE> ofcourse
[07:14] <leoncutz> but i am very new. i know jack shit about this operating system....
[07:14] <ApOgEE> we have people from averywhere around Malaysia
[07:15] <leoncutz> but the system seems cool and its free!
[07:15] <ApOgEE> no problem, we will help you
[07:16] <leoncutz> tks. will ctc u shortly.... let me try to delete it & install it now
[07:16] <ApOgEE> we sometime have Release Party or lepaking (lepak2 kedai mamak)
[07:16] <leoncutz> ohhh where?
[07:17] <leoncutz> thats fun. i can learn a few stuff but i am not a programmer fyi..
[07:17] <ApOgEE> add me on fb, i'll invite u when we are going to meet
[07:17] <leoncutz> i cant contribute anything to u guys
[07:17] <leoncutz> ok i will.
[07:18] <leoncutz> i do not hv a facebook a/c. i will use my cousing FB to add u now..\
[07:20] <leoncutz> ok added u with my cousins a/c vernon fernandez
[07:21] <leoncutz> ok let me go install this now
[07:21] <leoncutz> cheers
[07:34] <leoncutz> apogee r u still here?
[07:35] <leoncutz> apogee?
[07:37] <leoncutz> anyone here can help me pls
[07:38] <leoncutz> i am in partition editor, but cant delete the partition where ubuntu is install
[07:39] <ApOgEE> sorry, away ... just come back
[07:39] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: what is the error?
[07:40] <leoncutz> i am su lucky u r still here
[07:40] <leoncutz> the error is
[07:40] <ApOgEE> yes
[07:40] <leoncutz> let me just explain
[07:41] <leoncutz> i got system reservud (ntfs)
[07:41] <leoncutz> the other is just ntfs
[07:41] <leoncutz> system reserved
[07:41] <leoncutz> next files (ntfs)
[07:41] <leoncutz>  then
[07:41] <leoncutz> extended
[07:42] <leoncutz> ext4
[07:42] <leoncutz> last linux-swap
[07:42] <leoncutz> i tried deleting the ext4
[07:43] <leoncutz> the error is "unable to delete/dev/sda5!. please unmount any logical partitions having a number higher than 5
[07:43] <ApOgEE> then?
[07:44] <leoncutz> am i trying to delete the right partition?
[07:44] <ApOgEE> is see... u boot the pc using livecd or u boot your previously installed ubuntu?
[07:44] <ApOgEE> do u have internet connection on your ubuntu (which run on livecd)?
[07:44] <leoncutz> yes i am chatting u fm ubuntu now
[07:45] <leoncutz> the demo version
[07:45] <leoncutz> i  boot with livecd now
[07:45] <leoncutz> i cant use the install ubuntu...
[07:45] <ApOgEE> if you have, could u please Print Screen and upload the image of your Partition Editor on http://imagebin.org
[07:46] <ApOgEE> therefore, I can see what is your problem
[07:46] <ApOgEE> after u upload, send me the link
[07:47] <leoncutz> ok let me try
[07:49] <ApOgEE> please
[07:51] <leoncutz> i cant coz ther is no java install
[07:52] <leoncutz> can i email it to u now?
[07:52] <ApOgEE> eh?
[07:53] <ApOgEE> ok, email me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:53] <leoncutz> the site u ask me ask me to install java
[07:55] <ApOgEE> ok, just email me...
[07:55] <leoncutz> ok email to ady
[07:58] <ApOgEE> i see...
[07:59] <ApOgEE> u mount that partition right?
[07:59] <ApOgEE> please unmount the partition
[07:59] <leoncutz> i donl know what i did. how to unmount it?
[08:00] <ApOgEE> click on Place > Home
[08:01] <ApOgEE> to view your files & directory
[08:01] <leoncutz> where is place?
[08:02] <leoncutz> i am really feeling stupid here.. haha
[08:02] <ApOgEE> wait... seems like u use unity
[08:02] <ApOgEE> wait... i have to check
[08:02] <leoncutz> do u need any screen shot of the operating system i am using?
[08:02] <leoncutz> is teems like there are many versions..
[08:02] <leoncutz> seems
[08:03] <ApOgEE> yes please...
[08:03] <leoncutz> pic of?
[08:04] <leoncutz> what pic pls
[08:05] <ApOgEE> wait a whilw
[08:06] <ApOgEE> somebody call me
[08:06]  * kaeru thinks that deleting swap, then ext4 should do it
[08:06] <kaeru> looking at the back log it seems ext4 is sda5 and swap is sda6
[08:07] <kaeru> leoncutz: try removing linux-swap first, and then ext4
[08:07] <leoncutz> ok pls wait
[08:08] <leoncutz> when i click linux-swap, cant delete it
[08:08] <kaeru> what does it say?
[08:08] <leoncutz> then  delete it there is nothing happening
[08:08] <leoncutz> i right click the delete icon is not able to press
[08:10] <leoncutz> the only thing i can select is ext4 but when delete is has an error
[08:18] <leoncutz> apogee?
[08:41] <leoncutz> is apogee here?
[08:42] <ApOgEE> leoncutz:
[08:42] <ApOgEE> sorry, i'm still working... so many interruption
[08:42] <ApOgEE> so, where are we just now?
[08:42] <leoncutz> ohh tks u r still here. so what is my next action
[08:43] <leoncutz> ohh u r at work.. sorry. do u wanna me to buzz u later tonight if its ok with u
[08:43] <ApOgEE> you have to unmount your hdd first
[08:43] <ApOgEE> to unmount, you can right click on the partition name from your desktop and select unmount
[08:43] <leoncutz> i was just thinking, can i delete the partitions via windows disk management?
[08:44] <ApOgEE> u don't have to
[08:44] <ApOgEE> just close any file which u open from the partition u want to delete
[08:44] <leoncutz> ok let me try it now
[08:44] <ApOgEE> and select the partition, (right-click) and select unmount
[08:45] <ApOgEE> the partition icon should on the desktop
[08:45] <mnajem> hi all
[08:45] <mnajem> working?
[08:45] <ApOgEE> hi mnajem
[08:46] <ApOgEE> mnajem: can you help our friend leoncutz to delete his ubuntu partition.. i'm going away now
[08:46] <mnajem> hmm
[08:46]  * ApOgEE greets kaeru
[08:46] <mnajem> use partition magic?
[08:46]  * ApOgEE greets mnajem
[08:47]  * mnajem usually use this steps
[08:47] <leoncutz> hi mnajem
[08:47] <mnajem> fdisk -l /dev/<device>
[08:47] <leoncutz> tks apogee
[08:47] <mnajem> sudo fdisk -l /dev/<device>
[08:47] <mnajem> then, look at the partition that u want to delete
[08:47] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: i'm sorry, i have to go now...
[08:47] <mnajem> hi leoncutz
[08:47] <ApOgEE> see u later
[08:47] <leoncutz> mnajem, fyi i am very new to ubuntu
[08:47] <mnajem> ok
[08:47] <leoncutz> ok tks for ur assistance.
[08:48] <leoncutz> appreciate it
[08:48] <mnajem> will help to screw ur machine, no problem
[08:48] <leoncutz> i x know this ubuntu at all
[08:48] <leoncutz> haha
[08:48] <mnajem> ok
[08:48] <mnajem> i'm not use to the gui stuffs
[08:48]  * ApOgEE away... working hour lolz... my boss is watching via cctv... lolz again
[08:48] <mnajem> i can help if u got experience with command line based
[08:48] <mnajem> for gui, try find gparted or alike
[08:49] <mnajem> easier if you got partition magic
[08:49] <leoncutz> ohh no, no comands at all if possible
[08:49] <mnajem> owh
[08:50] <leoncutz> can i delete ubuntu via dick management in windows 7 or should i dload partition magic 1st
[08:50] <mnajem> i never explore/have windows 7 so i'm not sure
[08:50] <leoncutz> can partition magic work in ubuntu?
[08:50] <mnajem> partition magic should run on windows...
[08:50] <leoncutz> now i am running woth my livecd
[08:51] <leoncutz> with
[08:51] <mnajem> it's like this
[08:51] <mnajem> i'm not aware of any solution that allow your to resize partition
[08:51] <mnajem> without having to wipe everything on linux
[08:51] <leoncutz> my ubuntu is corrupted after installation yesterday
[08:51] <mnajem> but partition magic (propietary) afaik will do
[08:52] <ApOgEE> mnajem: this is his problem, http://imagebin.org/135720
[08:52] <ApOgEE> mnajem: just show him how to unmount that partition, and then he can be able to delete em via Partition Editor a.k.a. gParted
[08:53]  * ApOgEE away again
[08:53] <mnajem> or
[08:53] <mnajem> try open up terminal
[08:54] <mnajem> sudo umount /dev/sda5
[08:54] <leoncutz> i want to delete it & reinstall a new one..is that the best option
[08:54] <mnajem> ?
[08:54] <mnajem> for newbie yes
[08:54] <mnajem> i suspect the problem is with the bootloader...
[08:54] <mnajem> so until you grasp certain mastery level of ubuntu
[08:54] <leoncutz> when i use ubuntu yesterday, my screen keeps flickering
[08:54] <mnajem> i would advise to reinstall
[08:55] <leoncutz> yes i think i should
[08:55] <mnajem> it tries to find the best resolution
[08:55] <mnajem> afaik
[08:55] <leoncutz> i ve open terminal
[08:55] <mnajem> the x server didn't properly start
[08:55] <mnajem> u're using cutting edge hardware?
[08:55] <leoncutz> so u want me to key in the code in terminal?
[08:55] <mnajem> yup
[08:56] <mnajem> simply copy & paste
[08:56] <mnajem> default password try root
[08:56] <leoncutz> mine is amd turion dual core
[08:56] <mnajem> the cpu isn't the problem
[08:56] <mnajem> maybe the graphic card
[08:57] <mnajem> *driver
[08:57] <mnajem> ubuntu designed to work AS IS
[08:57] <leoncutz> my graphic card is 1GB ati
[08:57] <mnajem> should be
[08:57] <leoncutz> i already paste in the terminal
[08:57] <leoncutz> it says not mounted
[08:57] <mnajem> am i talking on ubuntu-oh yeah,thought fedora
[08:57] <mnajem> hm
[08:57] <mnajem> try
[08:57] <mnajem> mount
[08:57] <mnajem> type mount
[08:58] <mnajem> use pastebin.com
[08:58] <leoncutz> kwhen i type mount there is a list
[08:58] <mnajem> yeah, i want to see that lady
[08:59] <leoncutz> can i email it to u pls.?
[08:59] <mnajem> hmm just use pastebin.com
[08:59] <mnajem> works the same
[08:59] <mnajem> n other ppl can respond to ur problem also
[09:01] <leoncutz> ok pasted it there
[09:02] <leoncutz> did i install the right ubuntu version.. its 10.10
[09:02] <mnajem> link?
[09:02] <mnajem> i shoud generate link after u submit
[09:02] <mnajem> paste it here
[09:03] <leoncutz> http://pastebin.com/1bh5vha2
[09:05] <mnajem> hmm it does not mounted
[09:05] <leoncutz> by the way, tks for ur help here. much appreciated
[09:05] <mnajem> currently u re on live cd,yes?
[09:05] <leoncutz> yes
[09:06]  * ApOgEE back
[09:06] <ApOgEE> so, how was it?
[09:06] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: can u delete the partiton yet?
[09:06] <mnajem> i don't think i got any idea to solve this
[09:06] <mnajem> heh
[09:06] <leoncutz> i just pasted some codes here
[09:06] <mnajem> it doesn't mounted
[09:06] <mnajem> so should be no problem
[09:06] <leoncutz> apogee, mnajem is trying to help me still
[09:07] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: can u delete it from Partition Editor now?
[09:07] <leoncutz> ok let me try it again now
[09:07] <ApOgEE> select the /dev/sda5 partition and delete it
[09:07] <leoncutz> apogee> same error
[09:08] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: if u right click on the linux-swap partition, what menu can u see?
[09:08] <leoncutz> i think i screwd up my machie...
[09:08] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: no u're not
[09:09] <leoncutz> swapoff
[09:09] <leoncutz> manage flags
[09:09] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: select that swapoff
[09:09] <leoncutz> information\
[09:09] <leoncutz> ok its scanning the files
[09:09] <leoncutz> done
[09:09] <leoncutz> now?
[09:09] <leoncutz> delete the linuz-swap
[09:10] <ApOgEE> your swap partition in mounted... that is the answer for "logical partition having a number higher than 5"
[09:10] <ApOgEE> no, just swapoff
[09:10] <ApOgEE> then delete the ext4
[09:10] <leoncutz> ohh now i right click there are many menus there
[09:10] <ApOgEE> you can also delete the linux-swap too
[09:10] <leoncutz> so which is 1st?
[09:10] <ApOgEE> can u delete it now?
[09:10] <leoncutz> anyone?
[09:11] <ApOgEE> 1st swapoff
[09:11] <leoncutz> ok
[09:11] <ApOgEE> 2. delete ext4 and linux-swap
[09:11] <ApOgEE> 3. install ubuntu
[09:11] <leoncutz> ok done..hurray
[09:11] <ApOgEE> ups.. before install, close other apps
[09:12] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: good
[09:12] <leoncutz> but not there is unallocated space
[09:12] <leoncutz> how about my dev/sda4?
[09:13] <leoncutz> how do i install ubuntu in the same partition?
[09:13] <ApOgEE> if there is no unalocated space, delete /dev/sda4 (extended)
[09:13] <ApOgEE> then install
[09:13] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: can u do it?
[09:13] <leoncutz> i will delete /dev/sda4 - extended now?
[09:13] <ApOgEE> yes
[09:14] <leoncutz> ok done
[09:14] <ApOgEE> good... now close the Partition Editor and install the fresh ubuntu
[09:14] <leoncutz> so may i ask where is teh space all go to? back to my C drive in windows ke?
[09:14] <leoncutz> how do i refresh ubuntu?
[09:15] <ApOgEE> ah, just click on install and follow the instruction
[09:15] <ApOgEE> when it ask you where to install, just select your unpartitioned free space
[09:16] <ApOgEE> others will be done automagically
[09:16] <leoncutz> apogee: b4 i do that can i confirm somethings with u
[09:16] <ApOgEE> yes
[09:16] <leoncutz> my hdd is 350 GB
[09:16] <ApOgEE> what u want to confirm?
[09:16] <leoncutz> now systemreserved 100mib
[09:17] <leoncutz> ntfs : 97.66GIB
[09:17] <ApOgEE> so?
[09:17] <leoncutz> ntfs:144.43GIB
[09:17] <leoncutz> Unlocatted: 55.9GIB
[09:17] <leoncutz> where is the 50G?
[09:18] <leoncutz> sorry..
[09:18] <leoncutz> just making sure je
[09:19] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: from the Partition Editor screenshot, it seems that your drive is actually 298.09GB
[09:19] <ApOgEE> if your salesmen tell u it is 350GB, the system tell u that it is not
[09:20] <leoncutz> ok.. pls wait
[09:21] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: i haven't had any idea where the 50GB goes... sometimes, the 350GB label didn't match actual capacity
[09:21] <leoncutz> ok so now i will install ubuntu. will u still be online here?
[09:22] <leoncutz> so will ubuntu automatically select the unlocatted space
[09:23] <ApOgEE> not sure if i'm still here... i'm waiting for my colleague to finish his task before I have to go to fix some servers
[09:23] <leoncutz> mnajem: tks so much too
[09:23] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: if ubuntu didn't select it automatically, you can select it in the options
[09:23] <mnajem> ok,sorry for not helping
[09:23] <leoncutz> ok
[09:23] <leoncutz> u did help me. appreciate it
[09:23] <leoncutz> Apogee: tks much too bro
[09:24] <leoncutz> will instal it now
[09:24] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: mnajem is a great hacker... you can learn alot from him...
[09:24] <ApOgEE> ;)
[09:24]  * ApOgEE bow to mnajem
[09:24] <leoncutz> well i would love to but all the codes are like jargon to me.. hahaha
[09:24] <leoncutz> i'm a graphic designer cum printer by profession...
[09:25] <leoncutz> coding...hmmmmm
[09:25] <leoncutz> not my cup of tea
[09:25] <leoncutz> c u guys.........
[09:25] <leoncutz> hope things go well during installation
[09:26] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: I'm just a self taught graphic & illustration artist... visit my blog at http://artofapogee.blogspot.com
[09:26] <ApOgEE> lols
[09:26] <ApOgEE> ;P
[09:26]  * ApOgEE sambung buat keje.... thanks mnajem
[09:28] <mnajem> ApOgEE, right
[09:45] <leoncutz> apogee or mnajem are u guys still here?
[09:46] <leoncutz> hv a big problem now..
[09:46] <ApOgEE> yes leoncutz
[09:46] <leoncutz> now i can load into my windows
[09:46] <ApOgEE> wusup?
[09:46] <ApOgEE> then?
[09:46] <leoncutz> i am still running with livecd
[09:46] <ApOgEE> ok
[09:46] <leoncutz> i can load into my windows during boot up
[09:47] <leoncutz> error : no such partition
[09:47] <leoncutz> grub rescue >
[09:47] <ApOgEE> have u finish installing your ubuntu?
[09:48] <leoncutz> not yet because during the installation wizard, there is an option to install alongside or use the selected partition to install
[09:49] <ApOgEE> then?
[09:49] <leoncutz> when i use install alongside, it takes up space for my other partition, so i will use advance installation
[09:49] <ApOgEE> what do u mean other partition?
[09:49] <leoncutz> there i can choose the free space partition but when i click install it doesent want to install
[09:50] <ApOgEE> file? (which is ntfs)?
[09:50] <leoncutz> the unlocated space which i deleted the ubuntu
[09:50] <ApOgEE> why it doesn't want to install? any error?
[09:50] <leoncutz> nope. the unlocated space
[09:51] <leoncutz> yes. there is an error. ask me to go back to partition something.....
[09:51] <leoncutz> i dont really remember
[09:51] <leoncutz> apogee: why cant i boot into windows?
[09:51] <ApOgEE> indeed, you have to make the partition if u are using advance mode
[09:51] <leoncutz> ok so i go to advance mode right?
[09:52] <ApOgEE> wait... which one is the question... u want to boot windows?
[09:52] <leoncutz> then i select the unallocated space & then i click add
[09:52] <ApOgEE> just now u said u can load windows
[09:52] <leoncutz> no i cant load into windows...
[09:52] <leoncutz> sorry typo error kot
[09:52] <leoncutz> there is an error
[09:52] <ApOgEE> what happen when u load windows?
[09:53] <leoncutz> no such partition
[09:53] <leoncutz> grub rescue ?
[09:53] <leoncutz> grub rescue ?>
[09:53] <leoncutz> sorry
[09:53] <leoncutz> grub rescue >
[09:53] <ApOgEE> owh... u mess up your grub
[09:54] <leoncutz> i got no idea what u meant by that.. haha. can it be solved?
[09:54] <ApOgEE> grub is your bootloader... you can select either to boot windows or ubuntu from grub
[09:54] <ApOgEE> yes, it can be solved
[09:54] <leoncutz> ohh yes that appeared when i had to operating systems installed
[09:54] <ApOgEE> after u install your ubuntu, you can update your grub settings
[09:55] <leoncutz> ohh ok.. so now how do i install ubuntu in the advance mode inorder for me to utilise the free space?
[09:55] <ApOgEE> how did u install your previous ubuntu? did u manually partition or u leave free space?
[09:55] <ApOgEE> just do the same way you install previously
[10:04] <leoncutz> apogee... sorrymycomputer hang just now
[10:06] <leoncutz> previously i install alongside other opersting system & it will tske up space fm my C drive
[10:06] <leoncutz> now i am installing ubuntu it takes up space fm my other partition that i use tokeep my files
[10:09] <ApOgEE> previously, how was the partition?
[10:09] <ApOgEE> you didn't make any partition?
[10:09] <ApOgEE> or you resize your windows partition?
[10:10] <leoncutz> the last time i instll it automaticlly cretated the partition for me
[10:11] <leoncutz> i didnt make any partitions at all
[10:11] <leoncutz> b4 installing ubuntu i already had 2 partitions
[10:12] <leoncutz> now my ubuntu instllation is lmost done on my other computer.. will log on here once its done
[10:49] <leoncutz> apogee i think the installation is taking some time. willu be online here later  just incase u g home?
[11:17] <ApOgEE> hope so... I have meeting tonite
[11:18] <ApOgEE> maybe u can ask on the mailing list or forum if you found nobody is here
[11:18] <ApOgEE> if i'm not here, maybe the others will be here
[11:18] <leoncutz> ok. tks
[11:18] <ApOgEE> they are all better than me... i'm just a newbie
[11:18] <ApOgEE> like you too
[11:18] <ApOgEE> ;)
[11:19] <leoncutz> but b4 u go it difficult to olve the problem i hv to od into windows?
[11:19] <ApOgEE> leoncutz: I'm just a self taught graphic & illustration artist... visit my blog at http://artofapogee.blogspot.com
[11:19] <leoncutz> to load into windoes
[11:19] <leoncutz> ok.
[11:19] <leoncutz> tks
[11:20] <ApOgEE> try this if not successful...
[11:21] <leoncutz> what is is it?
[11:23] <ApOgEE> sorry... i'm disconnected just now
[11:23] <ApOgEE> try this...
[11:23] <ApOgEE> if still have problem, you open partition editor
[11:23] <ApOgEE> then resize your windows partition back like before u install ubuntu
[11:24] <ApOgEE> and you may have that option to install it side by side
[11:24] <ApOgEE> this is just an idea
[11:24] <ApOgEE> ok... i got to go now
[11:24] <ApOgEE> see u later
[11:24] <leoncutz> ok tks
[11:24] <leoncutz> tks much
[15:03] <leoncutz> good evening all
[15:03] <leoncutz> hi apogee & mnajem
[15:04] <leoncutz> i've successfully install ubuntu but there is no sound coming from my speakers
[15:14] <leoncutz> anyone here
[15:44] <leoncutz> anyone here pls
[17:50] <leoncutz> good  morning.. anyone awake?


[00:11] <kirkland> During this launchpad outage, are emailed bug updates to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>being queued such that those bugs will be updated accordingly when Launchpad comes back online?
[00:14] <Rinchen> kiko, they should be, yes
[00:14] <Rinchen> er
[00:14] <Rinchen> kirkland, ^^
[00:15] <Rinchen> habit :-)
[00:19] <kirkland> Rinchen: cool, thanks ;-)
[00:20] <kirkland> Rinchen: I'll step back out so that kiko gets his "ki" back ;-)
[00:20] <Rinchen> lol
[00:20] <kirkland> :-)  bye
[01:03] <bdmurray> The maintenance pages says "We plan to make new a Launchpad release on:" which reads funny to me
[01:06] <kthakore> is launch pad supposed to be down right now?
[01:06] <elmo> kthakore: yes, /topic
[01:06] <elmo> and http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance
[01:06] <kthakore> oh UTC
[01:06] <kthakore> sorry I had the time as 11:00
[01:07] <kthakore> PST
[01:07] <kthakore> my mistake
[01:11] <superm1> how come there was no warning all day when i was using it?
[01:11] <slangasek> there was a countdown for the last hour or so
[01:12] <superm1> oh, of course i haven't touched it in 3 hrs or so :)
[01:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[01:34] <mwhudson_> hello mpt
[01:34] <jamesh> mpt: we aren't launchpadding at the moment
[01:37] <mpt> We're not?
[01:37] <mpt> o i c
[01:40] <Hobbsee> heya mpt
[01:41] <mpt> hiya Hobbsee
[01:41] <mpt> I should take this time to figure out why the offline message isn't centered
[01:46] <mpt> aha
[01:46] <mpt> .offline {text-align: center; max-width: 30em; margin: 2em auto;}
[01:47] <mpt> the "margin: 2em auto;" isn't centering it like it's supposed to
[01:52] <Balaams_Miracle> Man, i wish there was some way i could check what time it is at LP HQ
[01:53] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: always UTC :-)
[01:54] <lifeless> thumper: except when its not :)
[01:55] <thumper> lifeless: whaddya mean?
[01:55] <Balaams_Miracle> Heh, but how do i know what time is UTC?
[01:55] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: it depends, where are you?
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> I mean, i'm in the Netherlands.
[01:56] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: isn't it almost 3am there?
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> Yes, 2:56 it says
[01:56] <slangasek> by running 'date --utc' or such
[01:56] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: you're UTC +1
[01:56] <thumper> so subtrace an hour
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> Ah, thanks. One more hour to go then...
[01:56] <thumper> subtract
[01:57]  * Balaams_Miracle is already getting withdrawal symptoms
[01:57] <Balaams_Miracle> Need... fix... Must... wait...
[02:01] <Nafallo> Balaams_Miracle: ntp.ubuntu.com
[02:02] <Balaams_Miracle> Nafallo: Yes, that's a time server.  I'm now automatically subscribed to any bug I comment on?
[02:50] <RAOF> Woah.  The "Delete Cache" page action may want some renaming :)
[02:54] <RAOF> I suspect that hitting "add checked words to dictionary" is not meant to result in "An error occurred in a Python script"
[03:04] <mpt> ScottK, no, but you can subscribe to all the bug reports associated with a milestone/project/package/distribution
[03:05] <mpt> For example, you could subscribe to Ubuntu upstart and be notified of all bug reports about that package
[03:05] <ScottK> But I could do that before.
[03:06] <mpt> How?
[03:06] <ScottK> Make myself a bug contact for the package
[03:07] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav bug subscriptions as an example of one I've been subscribed to for a long time
[03:10] <jamesh> ScottK: the idea is to separate out the idea of being a "bug contact" (someone responsible for QA) and a "subscriber"
[03:11]  * mpt scratches his head at "For Ubuntu: There are no bug subscriptions"
[03:11] <mpt> That doesn't make sense
[03:11] <jamesh> ScottK: someone doing QA may be given permissions to e.g. alter bug importances (something a project may want to restrict), which a subscriber wouldn't be able to
[03:12] <jamesh> mpt: it just has a bug contact ...
[03:13] <mpt> I mean, it's not true
[03:13] <mpt> There are thousands of bug subscriptions in Ubuntu
[03:14] <mpt> I think it means "Nobody is subscribed to all of Ubuntu's bugs"
[03:14] <elmo> (which isn't true, there's a mailing list for them)
[03:16] <mpt> yeah
[03:18] <ScottK> I see.  Well I never ascribed any more to bug contact than I got sent a copy of the bug
[03:20] <ScottK> Signing up as bug contact doesn't give any extra powers, so I really don't understand the difference?
[03:23] <mpt> Maybe now the term can be changed to something more obvious
[03:23] <ScottK> Dunno.  AFAICT you've just invented a new feature functionally identical to the old one.
[03:24] <mpt> I don't know if it was possible to have multiple package bug contacts in the past
[03:24] <mpt> but it wasn't possible to have multiple people subscribed to all bugs for a distribution or project, unless a dummy team was created to put them in.
[03:24] <ScottK> The clamav example I showed a few minutes ago had three and has had for a long time.
[03:25] <mpt> So this might not be anything new for packages, but it's new for projects and distributions. And milestones.
[03:25] <ScottK> OK.  That I can see.  You might correct the description then.
[03:36] <mpt> "Subscribe to bugmail"?
[03:37] <mpt> oh, "bug mail"
[03:37] <jamesh> ScottK: there were no extra powers given to "bug contacts" previously because there were no restrictions on who could become a bug contact
[03:38] <jamesh> that'll change in future
[03:38] <ScottK> jamesh: Are there restrictions now?
[03:38] <ScottK> So are all the current bug contacts going to be automatically downgraded then?
[03:39] <jamesh> ScottK: all bug contacts were converted to subscriptions
[03:40] <jamesh> ScottK: and it isn't exactly a downgrade, since it is giving you the same features as before
[03:40] <ScottK> OK.
[03:40] <jamesh> but you can now also subscribe to projects
[03:40] <jamesh> and the subscription support can be extended to more than just bugs
[03:41] <ubotu> New bug: #193870 in malone "Source package page makes false claims about "Bug subscriptions"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193870
[03:41]  * ScottK didn't file that one.
[03:41] <ScottK> jamesh: None of which sounds like it's of any interest to Ubuntu developers, just other projects.
[03:42] <ScottK> BTW, I did read the feature announcement.  This is all very confusing.
[03:43] <jamesh> ScottK: it might not offer much benefit yet, but that will change in future
[03:43] <ScottK> "Launchpad automatically sends you emails whenever there's an update to a bug that you've reported, is assigned to you or that you've commented on." sounds to me like any bug I comment on I'll start getting bug mail on.
[03:43] <comperr> heh - I was here before - but I forgot who I was speaking too - who is the pastebinit creator again ?
[03:44] <jamesh> ScottK: one of the planned features is to allow more fine grained control over the notifications too
[03:45] <jamesh> ScottK: e.g. you might only care when bugs are created or fixed for a package, but not care about every single comment made to those bugs
[03:46] <ScottK> OK, but how does changing bug contacts to bug subscriptions help that?  So far you've just changed the name.
[03:47] <jamesh> just think of it as a new name for the old feature that more accurately describes its purpose, if that helps.
[03:47] <ScottK> Then don't announce it as a NEW feature.
[03:48] <jamesh> ... it _is_ a new feature
[03:48] <ScottK> Not for packages it's not.  It's got a new name with no functional differences
[03:49] <jamesh> e.g. you couldn't previously subscribe to all bugs targeted at ubuntu-8.04, for instance
[03:49] <ScottK> That's true, but unrelated to packages.
[03:50] <ScottK> I'm not saying that for milestones, projects, etc it's not new, but for packages it's not new.
[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #193872 in malone "Can't subscribe to all something's bug reports from its Bugs page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193872
[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #193873 in launchpad "Nobody wants to "Subscribe to bug mail"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193873
[04:30] <poolie> any ppa hackers around?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> poolie: devs?  users who know far too much about ppa?
[04:35] <poolie> devs, i guess
[04:36] <poolie> but i worked it out - packages with builddep problems
[04:36] <poolie> don't generate an error, or at least not for a very long time
[04:37] <jamesh> PPA does need improvements w.r.t. timely status updates
[04:37] <poolie> yes
[04:42] <Hobbsee> poolie: you don't get the generated mail?
[04:44] <RAOF> Hobbsee: There's no mail that I've noticed when your PPA package hits depwait.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh, depwait, yeah
[04:44] <poolie> i think it would be nice if you got, say,
[04:45] <poolie> one mail if it can't immediately be built, or not within 5m
[04:45] <poolie> and another after say 7d, saying "Giving up"
[04:46] <RAOF> Or, rather, tell you immediately if the package it's waiting on isn't also in your PPA's build queue.
[04:46] <RAOF> Or, in fact, shedule the builds based on dependency information :)
[04:46] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you'd probably need the global builds stuff to do that, though.
[04:46] <poolie> well, something like that
[04:46] <poolie> the main point is, _say something_
[04:47] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Oh, I'm sure the reason it's not done like that already is that the infrastructure doesn't support it.
[04:47] <RAOF> It'd be nice if the infrastructure _did_ support it, though :)
[04:47] <lifeless> RAOF: build deps are NPC
[04:48]  * RAOF tries to parse as Not Pre Calculateable
[04:48] <lifeless> RAOF: npcomplete
[04:48] <lifeless> non polynomial
[04:48] <RAOF> lifeless: Which doesn't mean that you can't solve it.
[04:48] <RAOF> Just that it scales insanely.
[04:49] <RAOF> For the record, I'd use NP-C for NP-complete ;)
[04:49] <lifeless> right; so like many things 'good' but not 'correct' answers are possible with better scaling
[04:49] <Hobbsee> RAOF: dream about it.  but really, don't expect it anytime soon.
[04:49] <lifeless> AIUI thats what happens here
[04:50] <RAOF> I wasn't actually after trawling the entire dependency chain.  Just 'I upload foo which depends on bar, and bar at the same time, please try to build bar first'.
[04:50] <jamesh> build deps are non-player characters
[04:51] <RAOF> Another valid parsing :)
[04:51] <poolie> in https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive, bzrtools 1.2.0-1~bazaar2~edgy1 seems to be a native package or something
[04:52] <poolie> at any rate it has just a .tar, not an orig and diff
[04:52] <poolie> i wonder why
[04:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: reprio'ing ftw.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: and uploading in order, with sufficient gaps, preferably with a script or something, ftw too.
[04:52] <poolie> another approach would be to give people a button saying "build this now"
[04:52] <poolie> or what Hobbsee said
[04:52] <RAOF> poolie:
[04:52] <RAOF> poolie: That button exists.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> poolie: and how many people do you think *won't* hit that button?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> RAOF: sure, but few have access to it
[04:53] <poolie> really? where?
[04:53] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I'm talking about PPAs right now.    There _is_ a *re*build this now button.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: afaik, everyone's talking about ppa's here
[04:54] <jamesh> poolie: "view build records", find the failed build and there is an item in the actions menu to retry it
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh sure.  after it's failed.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: what i think poolie's asking for is "let me specify the build order of my packages *before* they go thru and fail"
[04:55] <Hobbsee> it still apperas to take a lot longer than it should for builds to fail, and then have to redo all the builds, in order
[04:55] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:49] <carlos> morning
[07:50] <Hobbsee> guten morgen carlos!  Wie gehts?
[07:51] <carlos> Hobbsee: I understand the first part, I guess the second part is something like "How's going?", right?
[07:52] <carlos> Hobbsee: so, I'm fine, thanks :-P and you?
[07:52] <Hobbsee> yeah :)
[07:52]  * Hobbsee is doing OK.  dealing with email
[09:01] <philn__> hi
[09:11] <philn__> will #193656 be fixed for next code update?
[09:11] <Fujitsu> bug #193656
[09:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193656 in soyuz "Process-death-row procedure became very slow" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193656 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[09:12] <Fujitsu> As it's critical, it may be fixed within days. If it's not, it will be fixed in about a month.
[09:16] <philn__> Fujitsu: ok... until then i'm stuck, i want to upload a pkg to my PPA but it's always rejected because the old .orig.tag.gz remains on the pool :(
[09:21] <philn__> could someone remove the files from my pool please? ;)
[09:22] <Fujitsu> philn__: When did you delete them? That bug may not be your problem.
[09:22] <philn__> about 13 hours ago
[09:23] <Fujitsu> I suggest waiting a while longer, or incrementing the version number.
[09:24] <philn__> ah you mean the upstream version number
[09:25] <Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ddclient -> how do I remove this?
[09:25] <Kmos> i've registered it
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Kmos: Why should it be removed?
[09:29] <Kmos> Fujitsu: because I support it, and I like to remove it
[09:29] <Fujitsu> It's a valid project, and has no reason to be removed.
[09:29] <Kmos> or else, give another person the register status
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Right, that's different.
[09:29] <Kmos> but it has my contact
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Assign it to registry.
[09:29] <Fujitsu> ~registry, that is.
[09:30] <Kmos> how to do it ?
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Change owner, or registrant, or whatever it is. There are three different terms used on the page for that one thing.
[09:32] <Kmos> i'll do it
[09:32] <Kmos> thanks
[09:32] <Kmos> "maintainer" is there too
[09:32] <Kmos> lol
[09:32] <Fujitsu> That's it, yes.
[09:33] <Kmos> There's no person/team named '~registry' in Launchpad.
[09:33] <Kmos> ups
[09:33] <Kmos> without the ~
[09:33] <Kmos> done
[09:34] <Kmos> Bug contact:  	 Marco Rodrigues
[09:34] <Kmos> Security contact: 	Marco Rodrigues
[09:34] <Kmos> still mine
[09:34] <Kmos> lol
[09:34] <Fujitsu> You need to remove yourself as both.
[09:36] <Kmos> that was before i change maintainer
[09:36] <Kmos> now i can't change anything
[09:36] <Kmos> :(
[09:36] <Fujitsu> Can one really not remove oneself from either of those positions!?
[09:36] <Kmos> i don't think so
[09:36] <Fujitsu> That's almost as crazy as Blueprint's assigning.
[09:37] <Kmos> the menu links to do that, have been disabled
[09:37] <Kmos> after i change maintainer
[09:37] <TankEnMate> is there a way on launchpad to get bzr repos using rsync?
[09:37] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: What's wrong with HTTP?
[09:37] <Kmos> Fujitsu: could you report i as bugg? :)
[09:37] <Kmos> *bug
[09:37] <TankEnMate> bzr initial checkouts are a big turn off
[09:37] <Fujitsu> Kmos: You'll need to poke an admin to remove you as them, then. I may well file a bug on that.
[09:37] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: If you own the branch, you can use bzr+ssh.
[09:38] <Kmos> Fujitsu: thanks
[09:38] <TankEnMate> i just did a bzr initial check out, it took over 5 minutes, used over 500M of RAM and blew away my file cache...
[09:38] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: or in general have access to?
[09:38] <Fujitsu> LarstiQ: Only if you have write access, no?
[09:38] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: 500M RAM!?
[09:38] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: that is what I meant indeed. (So membership of team owning it also works)
[09:38] <TankEnMate> I used bzr+ssh to check out.. it took ages, sucked everything into RAM and only _then_ wrote out..
[09:39] <Fujitsu> LarstiQ: Being a member of the team that owns it means you own it.
[09:39] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: fair enough, I disagree on the terminology, but I understand you now :)
[09:39] <TankEnMate> If I didn't have to check this stuff out it would have turned my right off...
[09:39] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: How big is the branch?
[09:39] <TankEnMate> F: just a tick
[09:39] <Fujitsu> I have a branch or two that takes hours, but it's gigantic.
[09:39] <Fujitsu> Most take a few seconds.
[09:40] <TankEnMate> 489M    .
[09:40] <Fujitsu> 5 minutes for 489M isn't bad.
[09:40] <TankEnMate> F: why does it want to suck everything into RAM first?!? what a waste!
[09:41] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: That'd be bzr's problem.
[09:41] <TankEnMate> A check out should really be nothing more than a straight copy of the head
[09:41] <Fujitsu> bzr co --lightweight
[09:41] <LarstiQ> TankEnMate: that would be a lightweight checkout, not a full one
[09:41] <TankEnMate> Yeah I know it is bzr's problem, then why use bzr, but thats a whole different kettle of fish..
[09:42] <Fujitsu> bzr works really well most of the time.
[09:42] <TankEnMate> Ahhh maybe for first timers checking out a tree you should inform them to do a lightweight checkout..
[09:42] <TankEnMate> F: I must admit I am used to git
[09:46] <TankEnMate> Hmm I'm going to email the ubuntu desktop course guys and get them to mention the lightweight checkout for first timers..
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: what version of bzr were you using?
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: and what format is the tree in, also does it have very large files? we generally flush stuff to disk as soon as each delta is verified
[09:46] <TankEnMate> 1.0-1~gutsy1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy-backports_main_binary-i386_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: you will find 1.2 to be better
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ack
[09:47] <lifeless> TankEnMate: doing a lightweight checkout is probably not the right thing for first timers; lightweight checkouts have no local history, so it performs worse overall.
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: bzr 1.2 isn't in backports though..
[09:47] <lifeless> TankEnMate: its in the bzr team ppa
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: so how to do a quick clone then?
[09:48] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ack, I'm just trying to figure an easy way to make first time d/ls for large repos not have to have to jump through too many hoops
[09:49] <lifeless> TankEnMate: 'bzr branch' or 'bzr checkout' (depending on whether you want a new branch or commit access to an existing branch)
[09:49] <lifeless> TankEnMate: thats all thats needed.
[09:50] <TankEnMate> lifeless: yes, but it chews soo much memory..
[09:50] <TankEnMate> over 500M on my machine to check out..
[09:50] <lifeless> TankEnMate: in 1.0. Which has an older network protocol that is less efficient.
[09:50] <TankEnMate> and it only starts writing out files once its all in RAM..
[09:50] <lifeless> TankEnMate: test with the current release; then discuss with bzr upstream.
[09:51] <TankEnMate> lifeless: would there be support for 1.2 to go into the official gutsy backports then?
[09:51] <Fujitsu> When it's in Hardy, it will most likely be backported.
[09:51] <lifeless> TankEnMate: you're wrong about the behaviour of bzr in general; whatever you saw is likely a result of backwards compatibility code kicking in.
[09:51] <Fujitsu> A FeatureFreeze exception has been granted for bzr 1.2
[09:51] <lifeless> TankEnMate: thats really unrelated, there is gutsy support in the bzr +ppa.
[09:51] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ahh
[09:51] <lifeless> later folk
[09:52] <TankEnMate> lifeless: I'm trying to get this to work for uneducated desktop users..
[09:52] <Fujitsu> Why do they need such a ridiculously massive tree?
[09:52] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: its user documentation :)
[09:53] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: I think I'll just have to set up a server that does nightly builds of the documentation and ships it out to the users...
[09:53] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: it is for translators..
[09:54] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: they have good natural language skills, not so good computer skills..
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Why not just ship out a tarball of the branch once, and have them pull the branch regularly?
[09:54] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: thats what I was hoping to avoid.. but looks like I will have to do something similar..
[09:55] <Fujitsu> You only have to do it to each machine once.
[09:55] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: I'll probably wind up just burning stuff on to DVDs with a few scripts and send it to them in the post..
[09:56] <TankEnMate> That and bzr 1.2 debs
[09:57] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: can bzr do deltas on binary files? or will it just copy then new ones down in toto?
[09:58] <Fujitsu> It does binary deltas.
[09:58] <TankEnMate> w00t good stuff
[09:59] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: Do you have the bzr +ppa URI handy?
[09:59] <Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive, most likely.
[09:59] <TankEnMate> ack, thanks!
[10:01] <TankEnMate> how stable are ppa debs? Good enough to just push to j. random user?
[10:02] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[10:02] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: surely that depends on how stable the source is?
[10:02] <TankEnMate> pick the Aussie :)
[10:03] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: Thats kind of what I was asking..
[10:03]  * Fujitsu welcomes mpt back to a sane timezone.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: right, so if you upload a stable source, then the binary will be stable.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> hte converse is also true
[10:04] <Fujitsu> The bzr devs are one of the only upstreams I trust to make their own packages.
[10:04] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: not know what ppa stands for I don't have any feel for it..
[10:04] <TankEnMate> F: Thanks..
[10:04] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: personal package archives?
[10:05] <TankEnMate> I am a Debian user origionally, i use sid myself, but in the past have given stable to clients..
[10:05] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: thanks!
[10:05] <TankEnMate> I am moving to Ubuntu because it is more up to date for my clients..
[10:06] <mvo> danilos: hello! could you quickly help me with a rosetta export? I got a tarball that looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4820/ - why are some po files put into the toplevel dir and some under main/ ? (main is the name of the component)
[10:07] <danilos> mvo: the ones under 'main/' are probably existing translations, and the ones in toplevel are those which have been newly translated in Launchpad
[10:07] <danilos> mvo: I can try fixing it manually, though
[10:08] <mvo> danilos: aha! thanks
[10:08] <danilos> mvo: (i.e. on import, they were inside main/...)
[10:08] <mvo> danilos: right, so those were not touched since the import, but the other ones were?
[10:09] <danilos> mvo: well, it's not actually that useful information
[10:09] <danilos> mvo: it's only that those in main/ have existed in the package as well
[10:10] <danilos> mvo: and I can't actually fix them from the UI; carlos, do we have an existing bug for this (if you happen to know, since we had a similar complaint recently)?
[10:11] <carlos> danilos: yeah, we have a bug about it
[10:11] <carlos> let me look for it...
[10:11] <danilos> carlos: thanks
[10:11] <mvo> danilos, carlos: its not urgent, I was just curious about it
[10:14] <carlos> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/148286
[10:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148286 in rosetta "multiple template export has wrong directory names" [High,Confirmed]
[10:15] <TankEnMate> brb
[10:30] <ubotu> New bug: #193940 in rosetta "Import queue UI will link to inactive products" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193940
[11:12] <Hobbsee> poolie: good mail
[11:13]  * Fujitsu checks how far read-only-launchpad has been deferred.
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it doesn't matter how long it's been deferred currently.  they'll just keep redeferring it by a month, as they wish.
[11:18] <soren> So... How's the trolling business these days?
[11:19] <lifeless> Fujitsu: TankEnMate: I think you are reinventing the wheel if you ship a tar; bzr _should_ work fine. I repeat - try it with 1.2, if it doesn't do the right thing file bugs.
[11:21]  * Fujitsu only suggested that as an alternative to shipping lots of tarballs regularly.
[11:21] <Fujitsu> soren: My statement was relevant and quite valid.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> mine was probably trolling, but still quite valid none-the-less.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> still, we have delete now.  i can still continue celebrating that.
[11:23] <soren> Fujitsu: I was referring to Hobbsee.
[11:23] <Fujitsu> soren: I see.
[11:24] <Hobbsee> soren: if i actually had a trolling business...trust me, i'd do it better.
[11:24] <soren> mm hm.
[11:26]  * Hobbsee wonders if the rollout docs are finished yet, and if so, where they are
[11:29] <Hobbsee> soren: actually, i'll take my trolling back.  with this rollout, they haven't broken the scripts.
[11:33] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, rock on!  we should be able to get old sources now, too!
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Yep, that was cherrypicked a while back.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Which also unbroke quite a number of other links.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> hadn't been done when i left, i didn't think
[11:34] <Hobbsee> the trouble of going on holidays :P
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Shouldn't launchpad's Code tab be disabled now that that page and its branches are now private?
[12:46] <cprov-out> Fujitsu: Hobbsee: have you uploaded anything to PPA after the rollout ?
[12:46] <Hobbsee> cprov-out: nope
[12:46] <Hobbsee> cprov-out: i can try if you like, though
[12:47] <cprov> Hobbsee: yes, I would like you to try. It's super-fast ;)
[12:47]  * Hobbsee uploads
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Build creation? Or something is even more super-fast?
[12:49]  * Hobbsee waits
[12:49] <cprov> Fujitsu: yes, build creation on upload-time.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Yay!
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Very nice.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> \o/
[12:50] <Fujitsu> That is one of the most common questions of late.
[12:51] <cprov> Fujitsu: yes, but now it's *past* :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> cprov: oh wow!
[12:51] <Hobbsee> build's already started, too!
[12:52] <Hobbsee> wlel done!
[12:52] <Fujitsu> ... wow.
[12:52] <Spads> well that strikes me as luck :)
[12:54] <Hobbsee> and now it says pending.
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Oh, building from accepted in PPA too?
[12:54] <cprov> Hobbsee: great, your moin binaries ETA was 5 minutes
[12:54] <Hobbsee> cprov: was?
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Ooh, changelog on +archive too.
[12:55] <seb128> hi
[12:55] <cprov> publisher is running (:00)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, bigjools did that a while ago
[12:55] <Fujitsu> And publishing stuff.... Very nice.
[12:55] <Hobbsee> hey seb128
[12:55] <seb128> does anybody there has an idea why gdm launchpad bug comments are sent to their upstream mailinglist?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> cprov: so, are we supposed to be able to access teh binaries as soon as i'ts built?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> seb128: what's the address of the upstream mailing list?
[12:56] <Fujitsu> seb128: All of them!?
[12:56] <kiko> seb128, yes, jcastro and I were talking to the maintainers and they suggested that, but have since found it's not a great idea
[12:57] <seb128> Hobbsee<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:57] <kiko> seb128, I think they've reverted that -- chat with jcastro
[12:57] <seb128> ok
[12:57] <Hobbsee> kiko: did they give the reason for why?  i know amarok was doing the same thing
[12:57] <Hobbsee> at lesat for a while
[12:57] <cprov> Hobbsee: no, they have to reach the archive first (being published)
[12:57] <seb128> could you include the desktop team in the discussion where you are doing such changes?
[12:57] <kiko> Hobbsee, why they didn't like it?
[12:57] <Hobbsee> kiko: yes
[12:58] <kiko> Hobbsee, I guess it was a lot of traffic and they didn't prepare the list subscribers properly
[12:58] <kiko> seb128, talk to jcastro
[12:58] <seb128> kiko: ok, will do, thanks
[12:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: right
[12:58] <kiko> Hobbsee, if you're subscribed and all of a sudden you get this deluge of bugmail..
[12:59] <Hobbsee> kiko: yeah, true.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> kiko: i have that fun every time a team i belong to suddenly gets subscribed to another thing in launchpad.
[12:59] <kiko> same here
[12:59] <Hobbsee> and i wonder "why the hell did launchpad spam me...again???"
[13:00] <Hobbsee> bonus points for the recent mailing list screwup.
[13:00] <kiko> what's that?
[13:00] <Spads> http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/random/angry-moron.html <-- Hobbsee
[13:01]  * Fujitsu noted the mailing list spam.
[13:01] <Hobbsee> Spads: i got 1600+ mails in the week that i was away.  i really *don't* need more mail to deal with, especially random mail from untested screwups.  please :)
[13:01] <kiko> no idea what you are talking about
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Members of mailing-list-beta-testers get emails about people being accepted into the group.
[13:02] <Hobbsee> kiko: looks like all members of the LP beta testers got spammed with bits of teams being joined to a team, and then being removed from that team, for a while.
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Members are the teams that have mailing lists.
[13:02] <Fujitsu> So the mailing lists get spammed as new teams get permission to get mailing lists.
[13:02] <kiko> and not just admins?
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Apparently not.
[13:02] <Spads> Hobbsee: haha I know, it's just that I love the name "angry moron newsletter" for being subscribed to a list where all the posts are surprised members shouting "TAKE ME OFF THIS SPAM LIST *NOW* YOU CRIMINAL!"
[13:02] <kiko> weird.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> kiko: correct.
[13:03] <ScottK> Members of teams that are indirect members of teams that are in mailing-list-beta-testers get the mails too
[13:03] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Even better.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, lovely.
[13:03] <ScottK> It's been on my list to file a bug, but I haven't gotten to it yet.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: which is all of ubuntu-control and above, no?
[13:03] <Hobbsee> er,  ubuntu-buglords?  the old ubuntu-qa?
[13:04] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-bugcontrol, though I liked ubuntu-buglords better.
[13:04]  * Hobbsee wonders exactly how many people that spammed, then.
[13:04] <Hobbsee> Spads: haha :)
[13:04] <Fujitsu> Only those who subscribe. Which is probably not too many.
[13:04] <cprov> Hobbsee: all done for your moin upload, assuming no buildfarm load, source->build->binary will get done within one single  PPA publishing cycle (20 minutes)
[13:04] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: to m-l-b-t?
[13:04] <Hobbsee> cprov: wow!  nice!
[13:04] <Fujitsu> cprov: Very, very nice.
[13:04] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: To their team
[13:04] <Fujitsu> *team's mailing list.
[13:04] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  I get the mails because I'm ubunt-dev which is an indirect member of ubuntu-bug-control
[13:05] <Fujitsu> I think.
[13:05] <Fujitsu> Oh, I guess if a team doesn't have an ML, it will fall through to all members...
[13:05] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: which, in the case of some of the teams, still doesn't exist, so everyone gets an individual mail
[13:05] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Am I to presume that the ubuntu-bugcontrol email was the last you got?
[13:05] <Fujitsu> Once ubuntu-bugcontrol actually got a mailing list, emails to individual members should have stopped.
[13:06] <ScottK> No, I've gotten mails about people being unable to subscribe to the beta team
[13:06]  * ScottK will find and pastebin
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: lp should never have been giving teams-added emails to non-admins anyway.
[13:06] <Fujitsu> I didn't think so.
[13:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i presume that bug got stomped on and fixed, before mass spam
[13:07] <Hobbsee> as in, only one lot of teams, not all of them
[13:07] <Fujitsu> Maybe it's different because they're teams, not normal people, so it was thought a good idea to mail everyone.
[13:07] <ScottK> Fujitsu: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56837/
[13:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: iz bug.  didn't happen normally.
[13:08] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah, I didn't notice that one as being personalised, but I guess it must have been.
[13:08] <Fujitsu> Somebody should probably file a bug.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that's not someone being unable to subscribe to the beta team?
[13:09] <ScottK> My spamcop workflow is a lot quicker than my LP bug filing work flow.  I figure eventually either will be effective.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> hah
[13:09] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I got one of those too.
[13:10] <Hobbsee> ScottK: just filter anything from<EMAIL_ADDRESS> problem solved.
[13:10] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Do you have any other path to m-l-b-t?
[13:10] <Hobbsee> there's no rationale in that mail.  interesting
[13:10] <ScottK> Not that I know of.
[13:10] <ScottK> Let me find another
[13:11] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Well, it's fairly obvious that it is because you're a member of the team, I think.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed.
[13:12] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: makes it kinad hard to filter though - they should all be having rationales
[13:12] <ScottK> Other and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56838/ the only other one I've gotten was the one about joining mlbt.
[13:13] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i think that was the one that all people in -bugcontrol got
[13:13] <Hobbsee> as in, those two pastebinned ones
[13:13] <ScottK> Probably.
[13:13] <Fujitsu> Someone didn't set the contact address of -bugcontrol to the mailing list, which is why the world is getting spammed.
[13:14] <ScottK> I'd say as only an indirect member it's doubly wrong.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> oh, bugger.
[13:14] <Fujitsu> I don't see why indirect members should be treated any differently to direct members. But emailing everyone is wrong.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> can't actually *stop* the lp mail at all, without walking away from ubuntu.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: were there plans to allow any team to have their own mailing list?
[13:15] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's the point of the mailing list feature, I presume.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> emailing everyone is always wrong - in fact, i wonder if it officially counts as spam
[13:15] <Fujitsu> Any LP dev around here who might know why everyone is getting spammed, rather than just admins?
[13:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but what status is it?  vaporware, buggy-but-exists, or done-ready-for-production?
[13:16] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Beta testing. Hence the team.
[13:16] <ScottK> or renaming and existing feature and calling it something new.
[13:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh.  i've only skimmed that mail so far.  my bad.
[13:17] <ScottK> and/an
[13:17] <Hobbsee> i'ts got something to do with processing 1600+ email in the last 30 hours...
[13:17] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Which existing feature?
[13:18]  * Hobbsee wonders about being able to filter LP bugmail to start with
[13:18] <ScottK> Fujitsu: The ability to sign up as "Bug Contact" for a package is now some other name and a wonderful new feature.
[13:18] <Fujitsu> ScottK: That's actually a useful feature, as you can now subscribe to bugs for a distribution or project.
[13:18] <Fujitsu> Packages just happen to use the same unified mechanism now.
[13:19] <Hobbsee> ack
[13:21] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes, but it's not a new feature for packages and it's not correct to describe it as such.
[13:22] <Hobbsee> ScottK: they haven't described it, have they?  there's been no annoucement yet?
[13:22] <ScottK> It's on the LP features page
[13:22]  * Fujitsu hasn't seen one.
[13:22] <Fujitsu> Ah, on /
[13:22] <ScottK> Yes
[13:23] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  The only notification Ubuntu developers have had about changes in this release is a blog post saying show up and see what's changed
[13:24] <Hobbsee> ScottK: hm, it's not on ubuntu-devel@ yet
[13:24] <ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  It was on planet
[13:24] <ScottK> That's it
[13:25] <Fujitsu> Hm, interesting, subscribing to milestones.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yummy
[13:25] <ScottK> http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/offline-21-feb-0000-0300-utc
[13:25] <Fujitsu> I don't see it on Planet.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> that'll make release management, etc, easier
[13:25] <ScottK> It was there two days ago
[13:25] <Fujitsu> I see that, but not the usual announcement.
[13:26] <Fujitsu> w/ release notes, etc.
[13:26] <ubotu> New bug: #193983 in malone "Oops deactivating account when the account has a conjoined bugtask assigned to it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193983
[13:26] <ScottK> Fujitsu: AFAIK there hasn't been one.
[13:29] <Hobbsee> hi statik
[13:30] <Hobbsee> cprov: what was the rationale for not keeping previous versions of sources and binaries in a ppa?
[13:30] <Hobbsee> as in, on LP at all, not in the ppa archive?
[13:30]  * Fujitsu wonders if they're in librarian.
[13:31] <Hobbsee> likely
[13:31] <cprov> Hobbsee: uhm, they remain in librarian and in the primary archive UI
[13:31] <cprov> Hobbsee: they are only hidden in the PPA UI
[13:31] <Fujitsu> cprov: No files are published for this package.
[13:32] <Fujitsu> s/are //
[13:32] <cprov> Fujitsu: bug me ;)
[13:32]  * Hobbsee smells a gpl violation again.
[13:33]  * Fujitsu files a bug.
[13:33] <Hobbsee> and that's a strange form of delete!
[13:33] <cprov> Hobbsee: NO it isn't a gpl violation, binaries are already gone longer before the sources vanish from the UI.
[13:33] <Fujitsu> cprov: That's irrelevant, I believe.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> Hm, actually, not sure which clause it would be distributed under.
[13:35] <Fujitsu> Not 3a, I don't think it's 3c, so it is probably 3b.
[13:43]  * Hobbsee quietly dies over legalese
[13:47] <Hobbsee> cprov: i hope you're right...
[13:48] <cprov> Hobbsee: okay, it doesn't mean that we don't want to show your package files straight from librarian. Actually it would be nice if you can file a bug about it.
[13:48] <Fujitsu> ubotu is slow.
[13:48] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is slow. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:49] <barry> hi folks, kiko mentioned that there was a discussion about mailing lists and the mailing-lists-beta-testers spam.  i'm here to answer any questions you might have
[13:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: arent you alreayd filing one?
[13:49] <kiko> barry, read backscroll? :)
[13:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Did so 9 minutes ago now.
[13:50] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah goody.  #?
[13:50]  * kiko lets Fujitsu and Hobbsee and ScottK take it out on barry  :)
[13:50] <Fujitsu> barry: Basically, we're all being emailed about some membership changes in m-l-b-t.
[13:50] <ubotu> New bug: #193996 in soyuz "PPA packages unavailable once deleted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193996
[13:50] <Hobbsee> there we are
[13:50] <kiko> gpl violation, pffft
[13:50] <kiko> please
[13:50] <ScottK> emailed being the kind word to use for it.
[13:51] <barry> Fujitsu: that should be fixed now.  it wasn't really related to mailing lists, but it was caused by the way membership in mlbt is required, the fact that we didn't have a contact address on ~mlbt, and one of our guys hit the wrong button ;)
[13:51] <barry> Fujitsu: we solved this by adding a contact address to ~mlbt, so that can't happen again
[13:51] <Fujitsu> barry: Shouldn't only admins be emailed on membership changes anyway?
[13:52] <kiko> barry, one question I have is whether team /members/ should be emailed on membership changes.
[13:52] <barry> Fujitsu, Hobbsee and everyone: we're /really/ sorry about that!
[13:52] <Fujitsu> That's what seems to happen with mortal teams.
[13:52] <kiko> right
[13:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i didn't think so?
[13:52] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I don't get emailed when new MOTU appear.
[13:52] <barry> Fujitsu, kiko that's a great question.  i actually don't think regular members /should/ be emailed on membership changes either
[13:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: exactly.  that's hwat i'm saying too.  i thin i'm misreading you then
[13:53] <Fujitsu> I haven't seen regular members be emailed like that before.
[13:53] <Fujitsu> Maybe it's because they're team membership changes.
[13:53] <barry> doesn't the contact address get membership changes?
[13:54] <Fujitsu> No.
[13:54] <Fujitsu> Oh, actually.
[13:54] <Hobbsee> barry: no.
[13:54] <Fujitsu> I forget what's a contact address for what, and what isn't... too many lists.
[13:54] <barry> hmm
[13:54] <Hobbsee> otherwise u-u-s would get them all, and i don't see them dumped in the mod queue, so, no.
[13:54] <kiko> barry, I'd like to understand exactly why the users got mailed, because it sounds really strange to me.
[13:55] <barry> kiko: ok, let's work it backwards, because i'm not sure i understand how they got emailed either
[13:56] <kiko> Hobbsee, can you forward barry a membership-change email with full headers?
[13:56] <barry> the other thing is: are people /still/ getting emailed about membership changes?  i did set up a contact address maybe 18 hours ago i think
[13:56] <Fujitsu> barry: I haven't seen any in a couple of days.
[13:56] <kiko> barry, is the contact email address set up getting membership changes?
[13:56] <Hobbsee> kiko: there were a couple of ones above from ScottK.
[13:56] <barry> kiko: i /think/ so, but i'm not sure
[13:56] <Hobbsee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56837/ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56838/
[13:57] <kiko> thanks sarah
[13:57] <Hobbsee> you're welcome.  i'm assuming those are the ones that you want
[13:57] <kiko> barry, ah, that's something else.
[13:57] <kiko> it's interesting.
[13:58] <kiko> are team members emailed when the team is added to another team? should they?
[13:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: when the team taht they're in is added to another?
[13:58] <ScottK> I'd think they shouldn't.  It's an administrative question.
[13:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: i can't see why they should be
[13:58] <barry> kiko: also, there have really been two types of membership changes in mlbt.  i don't think anybody ever got the rejection notices, but they got the erroneous acceptance notice
[13:58] <Fujitsu> barry: I got the acceptance and expiration.
[13:59] <barry> kiko: and remember that was mlbt getting joined to coriander, not the other way around
[13:59] <kiko> yes, yes
[13:59]  * ScottK too.  See the pastes above
[13:59] <barry> Fujitsu: i did too, but i'm not sure what that expiration notice was
[13:59] <kiko> barry, but I think that Hobbsee and ScottK have a point -- members shouldn't be emailed on this sort of change.
[13:59] <kiko> that it's a bug
[13:59] <kiko> only admins should.
[14:00] <barry> kiko: i totally agree
[14:00] <Fujitsu> It's a different sort of change to what I thought it was; I didn't read the entire email properly, so assumed it was the other way around... Oops.
[14:00] <ScottK> Currently the only way for me to avoid these types of emails is to deactivate myself as an ubuntu-dev.  A bit extreme
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: or blackhole the address in launchpad.
[14:00] <barry> kiko: do we have a bug open for this issue yet?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: depends if you carea bout bugmail
[14:00] <kiko> barry, I doubt it.
[14:00] <ScottK> True
[14:01] <kiko> matsubara, salgado: agreed that it's a bug that team members get spammed if their team is added or removed/expired from another team?
[14:01]  * barry runs off to report the bug
[14:01] <Fujitsu> Some people would probably want to know when they implicitly become part of a new team, but probably not on such a large scale as this.. hmm...
[14:01] <ScottK> avoid/avoid it being sent to me.
[14:01] <kiko> matsubara, salgado: if so, does it already exist? help barry out :)
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: just to be 1 million percent clear
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: all the bits of "spam" you received had to do with this "Coriander" team.
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: confirm?
[14:01] <Hobbsee> kiko: i think so, yes.
[14:01] <ScottK> For this issue, yes.
[14:02] <ScottK> I'm not sure I need mails that a team I'm an indirect member of has been added to a team, but that's much less clear.
[14:02] <kiko> okay, thanks.
[14:02] <Fujitsu> A lot of people seem to mis-approve things. This is one case, but I've seen other people do it too.
[14:02] <kiko> ScottK, isn't that exactly the bug barry's reporting? that team members (direct or indirect) shouldn't be notified of this sort of change?
[14:03] <barry> related: bug 113705
[14:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113705 in launchpad "when team membership changes, team members get every other member's email address in To" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/113705 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[14:04] <Hobbsee> wow, launchpad ftw.
[14:04] <kiko> barry, pretty horrible one too
[14:04] <barry> and bug 44795
[14:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44795 in malone/1.2 "Bug notifications include all subscribers in To: field when notifying a team with no contact email" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44795 - Assigned to Björn Tillenius (bjornt)
[14:04] <salgado> kiko, barry, I'm pretty sure there's no bug reported for this one
[14:04] <kiko> exarkun, are you around already?
[14:05] <barry> salgado: cool.  i will report it
[14:06] <kiko> salgado, do you agree it's a bug?
[14:06] <ScottK> kiko: One is another team being added to a team I'm a member of.  I clearly don't need that.  The other is a team I'm a (indirect) memeber of being added to another.  Less clear.
[14:07] <kiko> ScottK, I think in both cases only direct admins should be notified.
[14:07]  * ScottK agrees
[14:07] <Hobbsee> +1
[14:07] <kiko> they are in the best position to do something about it
[14:08]  * Fujitsu heads to bed.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> thumper: ping, continuing yesterday's discussions.
[14:09] <salgado> kiko, I'm not so sure.  since I'm being added as a member because of that team, I'd like to be notified.  just like I'd be notified if I were added to a team directly
[14:10] <barry> kiko, Hobbsee, ScottK bug 194003
[14:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194003 in launchpad "only team admins should be emailed about team membership changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194003
[14:10] <barry> can you check to make sure i captured the issue accurately?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> barry: those pastes will eventually lapse - you probably want to attach them to the bug, btw
[14:11] <barry> Hobbsee: good point
[14:11] <Hobbsee> barry: looks about right
[14:13] <ScottK> Seems right.
[14:13] <Hobbsee> curses, curses.
[14:13] <barry> attached.  thanks Hobbsee and ScottK
[14:14] <Hobbsee> people, if you want ubuntu cds for *tuesday*, please don't email me on the previous *friday* asking for htem.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> `You are about to send an annoying approval notice to 754 people. Cancel/Allow'
[14:15] <ScottK> Maybe the solution is to set Mail From to the requestor so they get all the complaints.
[14:15] <ScottK> Probably won't do it more than once.
[14:15] <barry> ;)
[14:15] <Hobbsee> haha :)
[14:15] <kiko> lol
[14:16] <barry> maybe you want a radio box that says: annoy team admins, annoy all 500 direct members, really piss off all 8 billion indirect members
[14:16] <Hobbsee> barry: with a warning that Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ torture may come their way if they do?
[14:16] <Hobbsee> and from others?
[14:17] <kiko> barry, how about "hide the fact that you're doing this change from everybody"?
[14:17] <Fujitsu> For teams that have a dozen subteams that nest 4 levels down, it seems a bit foolish to email everyone... but where to draw the line?
[14:17] <barry> Hobbsee: yes!  and at least 3 or 4 levels of "are you sure"  "are you really sure?" "are you really really sure?"  confirmation pages
[14:17] <Hobbsee> barry: yeah!
[14:17] <barry> kiko: that's not a bad idea
[14:20] <ubotu> New bug: #194003 in launchpad "only team admins should be emailed about team membership changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194003
[14:20] <barry> thanks everyone, i've added some comments to the bug with your suggestions (except for Hobbsee's trademarked LPSoD suggestion :)
[14:20] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[14:31] <ubotu> New bug: #194012 in malone "Notify subscribers by a bug's old state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194012
[14:31] <Hobbsee> kiko: you know, speaking of launchpad spam....is there any reason why i would want to know that another bug has been marked as a duplicate of mine?
[14:32] <kiko> Hobbsee, I'm sure you can contrive some. the question is whether there is reason enough to justify the spam.
[14:32] <kiko> s/any/sufficient maybe
[14:33] <Hobbsee> kiko: the only reason i've managed to contrive so far is so that i can get the address of a core dump, which LP has later gone and removed the links to, after the retrace
[14:33] <Hobbsee> but i'm not sure that $random_user should have access to other people's core dumps anyway, and i'm not sure if they can.
[14:34] <kiko> Hobbsee, well, there are softer but relevant reasons. there may be more information in the other bug. there might be a patch on the other bug. there might be a user with a workaround in the other bug. etc.
[14:34] <Hobbsee> this is true
[14:34] <kiko> so again
[14:34] <kiko> the question is s/any/sufficient
[14:34] <ScottK> OTOH, after about the 12th dupe, the fun factor on the bugmail goes way down.
[14:35] <kiko> ScottK, agreed. but how do we balance those things out without being arbitrary?
[14:35]  * Hobbsee used to filter dupemail, but somehow that died
[14:35] <Hobbsee> looks like my filters for apport have broken too
[14:35] <ScottK> kiko: I do think it would be useful to look at the recent python-central bug and go back and see how duplicate detection could be improved to have avoided people filing so many new bugs.
[14:37] <kiko> ScottK, so you're saying that if we had less dupes the problem would be much less?
[14:37] <Hobbsee> kiko: correct
[14:39]  * Hobbsee --> bed
[14:50] <exarkun> too. cold.
[14:51] <kiko> come on
[14:51] <kiko> there's heating up north
[14:52] <exarkun> problem is, it's never as warm out of bed as it is in bed
[14:53] <exarkun> kiko: so, what's up?
[14:55] <kiko> might be good news, might be bad!
[14:57] <kiko> exarkun, you shy of privmsgs?
[15:56] <ubotu> New bug: #194039 in malone "AttributeError updating mantis bugwatches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194039
[16:00] <Rinchen> >> meeting time - #launchpad-meeting
[16:00] <kiko> Rinchen?
[16:01] <matsubara> what?
[16:01] <matsubara> topic says 1800 UTC
[16:01] <Rinchen> sure enough.
[16:01] <Rinchen> I'm goofed up again
[16:02] <bigjools> I wish it were 1600, 1800 is about the worst time possible for me
[17:59] <Rinchen> ok, now it's meeting time :-)
[18:05] <ubotu> New bug: #194067 in launchpad "Importd doesn't use RF configs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194067
[18:35] <gryc> So will there be a way to import old mailing list archives into launchpad's new mailinglists?
[18:37] <rzr> gryc: i guess yea
[18:37] <rzr> they say about this on the "tour"
[18:38] <gryc> really? 0.o
[18:38]  * gryc looks again
[18:41] <gryc> hrm, and any idea if there will be mailing lists for projects and not just teams?
[18:41] <kiko> gryc, just for teams -- but you can register a team and associate it to a project, even if it only has one member initially.
[18:42] <gryc> then am I correct in assuming that a user has to join the team to post to the mailing list?
[18:47] <kiko> gryc, well, there is whitelist moderation I believe (barry, help) but mostly yes
[18:48] <barry> gryc: currently, they have to join the team /and/ subscribe to the mailing list to post
[18:48] <barry> gryc: but there's an open bug to relaxing posting restrictions so that any team member can post
[18:49] <gryc> okay
[18:49] <barry> gryc: i'm heading out to lunch, but ping me later if you have more questions
[18:51] <rzr> i am planning to move a yahoogroup to LP , any suggestions ?
[18:56] <ScottK> kiko: Apparently I'm not alone thinking the fix for Bug #137448 didn't fully address the issue.  Would you prefer a new bug or I reopen this one?
[18:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137448 in malone "New UI is confusing and counter inuitive for changing affected package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137448 - Assigned to Björn Tillenius (bjornt)
[18:57] <kiko> ScottK, I don't have time to invest in that discussion right now, as I find the issue completely unimportant :-(
[18:58] <ScottK> kiko: Glad to understand that.  Thanks.
[19:01]  * ScottK decides to give up on this.
[19:05] <Rinchen> date change on next mtg
[20:26] <ubotu> New bug: #194114 in soyuz "Only Virtual machines can be used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194114
[20:50] <ubotu> New bug: #194120 in launchpad "Discarded posts should provide some feedback to sender" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194120
[20:55] <ubotu> New bug: #194126 in launchpad "Let people lurk on mailing lists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194126
[22:06] <ubotu> New bug: #194143 in launchpad "Both "Swedish" and "Swedish (Finland)" listed as languages of Finland" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194143
[22:10] <jetsaredim>  if I have a code branch in my bzr area on launchpad - how can I get the thing built and into my ppa?
[22:19] <Ubulette> jetsaredim, you'd better "branch your branch", then in the new branch, append ~ppa1 to the version in debian/changelog and target hardy as the distribution, then build a source package (debuild -S), then dput the .changes file (but you need to 1st configure the dput target for ppa)
[22:22] <jetsaredim> i guess i was more looking for a pointer to a wiki doc or some thing :)
[22:23] <Ubulette> oh
[22:24] <Ubulette> there's one somewhere.. hmm, looking
[22:24] <Ubulette> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[22:32] <Assid> heya
[22:32] <Assid> is the site having issues
[22:33] <Assid> ?
[22:38] <Assid> wonder if its cause of the database or http server is gone outta whack
[22:40] <exarkun> launchpad.net is responding quite well to my browser's requests
[22:40] <exarkun> that doesn't mean the site isn't having issues, of course, but it's a data point. :)
[22:42] <Assid> hrmm
[22:43] <kiko-afk> it's damned fast if you ask me
[22:43] <kiko-afk> wow
[22:46] <jsauer> Hey there! QUESTION: Can I branch a vcs-imports branch (eg. ~vcs-imports/evolution/head) fix a bug and then make a merge propose to commit this fix upstream?
[22:46] <Assid> weird
[22:48]  * Assid thinks the webserver is a bit outta whack?
[22:50] <exarkun> Assid: Sorry if this is obvious, but don't you think you should provide some details if you're trying to report a bug?
[22:51] <Assid> well it just sits there trying to connect oto the site. but doesnt do anything.. firefox says connecting to... but thats it
[22:52] <exarkun> Are you sure it's not a DNS problem?  (Can you resolve the hostname using another tool?)  Or maybe a Firefox memory corruption issue?  (Does it work if you restart Firefox?)
[22:53] <Assid> c
[22:54] <Assid> SSL error:no issuer was found-Continue?
[22:54] <Assid> as per lynx
[22:54] <Assid> firefox still doesnt work tho
[22:55] <Assid> dont know what to say
[22:56] <Assid> okay started working on its own now
[22:56] <poolie> hello
[22:57] <Assid> slow.. but atleast the title to the page has loaded
[22:58] <Assid> okay started working.
[23:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[23:23] <steveire> Hi. Before it got backported I put libxine in my ppa. I'd intended that the ppa version would be overriden when the official version was backported. I named it 1.1.10-1ubuntu1~ppa1. However, that version name does not get overriden by the backported version. http://rafb.net/p/bN6WYA12.html. What should I have named it in this case and how can I anticipate the version of the backported package in the future?
[23:31] <stdin> steveire: ~ppa1 is higher than ~gutsy1 because 'p' is higher than 'g'
[23:31] <stdin> ~gutsy1~ppa1 is what I tend to use when building on non-development releases
[23:31] <steveire> stdin: You mean u is higer than g? How should I name things then?
[23:33] <stdin> ah, with libxine there is no ubuntu revision
[23:33] <steveire> The previous version in backports was 1.1.8-2ubuntu2~gutsy1. I'd assumed it would follow the same scheme.
[23:34] <steveire> Is there a way to build non-dev releases without second guessing what the backporter will name the package?
[23:35] <stdin> use <version>-0~gutsy1~ppa1 if there is no debian package (1.1.8-0~gutsy1~ppa1) or us the version from debian and add ~gutsy1~ppa1
[23:56] <ubotu> New bug: #194176 in blueprint "Superseded status is redundant with superseded link" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194176


[01:51] <Rocket2DMn> hey guys, as part of firewall documentation re-org, I'm gonna move the page on Uncomplicated Firewall
[01:51] <Rocket2DMn> should I name it UFW or Ufw ?
[01:51] <Rocket2DMn> e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW
[01:52] <Rocket2DMn> Same question for the iptables page - probably call it Iptables ?
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> hey DougieRichardson
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> can you try and confirm a bug for me?
[20:19] <DougieRichardson> hey rocket2dmn
[20:19] <DougieRichardson> yes
[20:20] <Rocket2DMn> bug 408083
[20:20] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 408083 in ubuntu-docs "Community Docs surge protection is too restrictive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408083
[20:20] <DougieRichardson> just looking
[20:21] <Rocket2DMn> thanks
[20:22] <DougieRichardson> Refreshed it five times in quick succession and haven't tripped it off - how about you?
[20:22] <Rocket2DMn> really? I tripped it fairly easily
[20:22] <Rocket2DMn> a friend of mine on the beginners team was able to reproduce it, too
[20:23] <Rocket2DMn> i havent been able to view all icons on the IconsPage for probably a year
[20:23] <DougieRichardson> Maybe I'm missing something
[20:24] <Rocket2DMn> nah, i dont think so, its supposed to be fairly straightforward to reproduce
[20:24] <Rocket2DMn> try clearing your cache and refreshing
[20:24] <DougieRichardson> OK
[20:26] <DougieRichardson> No warnings but the images aren't displayed, only their alt text.
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, right click and View Image on one of them
[20:26] <Rocket2DMn> one that doesnt show that is
[20:27] <technomensch> intermittent displaying the icons for me as well.  FF, Chrome, IE 8.  never been able to track down cause
[20:28] <Rocket2DMn> hey Marc
[20:28] <technomensch> yo
[20:28] <Rocket2DMn> youve experienced this problem then, too?
[20:28] <DougieRichardson> hey Marc
[20:28] <technomensch> ::nod::  it was especially annoying when I was doing the revamp on /Teams
[20:28] <DougieRichardson> brb - officer commanding household calling
[20:29] <Rocket2DMn> well, glad i'm not the only one
[20:29] <technomensch> dittp
[20:29] <Rocket2DMn> another quirk I've been experiencing for quite some time is that Tables don't always display all borders
[20:29] <technomensch> ayup
[20:29] <technomensch> seeing that as well
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> Hmm, not sure if that problem is related
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> ive tried everything to fix it, but nothing has worked
[20:30] <Rocket2DMn> i just figured my FF profile was whacked
[20:30] <technomensch> nope
[20:30] <technomensch> very intermittent
[20:30] <technomensch> and rando
[20:30] <technomensch> happens in all 3 browsers
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> for me its pretty regular that borders dont show
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> its actually predictable for me
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> for instance, the big table on this page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Padawan
[20:31] <Rocket2DMn> always missing the same parts of the borders
[20:32] <technomensch> I see just one piece of border missing
[20:32] <technomensch> ok
[20:32] <technomensch> now I'm seeing more
[20:32] <technomensch> in chrome under quiz status
[20:33] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, and another large one missing between Bodsda and jamesrfla rows
[20:33] <technomensch> nope, but missing lower border of gastly under seeking masters
[20:34] <Rocket2DMn> hmm, i have that one, but something is messed up
[20:34] <technomensch> sdennie, nhandler, nhasian, forestpixie, LeAstrale
[20:34] <technomensch> complete line is missing under jamesfla
[20:34] <technomensch> and above ajmorris
[20:35] <technomensch> I mean paultag
[20:35] <Rocket2DMn> i see differently, but its the same problem
[20:35] <technomensch> in ie, only line issues are in the last column
[20:36] <technomensch> who knows what rendering issues it might be FF
[20:36] <Rocket2DMn> quite possible
[20:36] <Rocket2DMn> well if somebody could confirm that bug i posted, that would be great
[20:37] <Rocket2DMn> it could potentially be a Wishlist item, but i actually see it as a true bug b/c it prevents you from using the system
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> DougieRichardson, i'm working with bodhi.zazen on re-org of firewall related pages
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> I'm going to move this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Uncomplicated_Firewall_ufw
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> I'm thinking of putting it at UFW - does that seem right to you?
[20:41] <Rocket2DMn> rather than "ufw" or "Ufw"
[20:41] <Rocket2DMn> I made a Gufw page a bit ago - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Gufw
[20:51] <DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn: OK bodhi mentioned something about it
[20:52] <DougieRichardson> if people know it as ufw I can't see a problem with that.   In the case of ufw it is almost always referred to in lowercase, but that isn't good wiki syntax
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> Gufw makes sense though b/c that is what it is actually called
[20:54] <popey> evening all
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> I'll stick with UFW for the ufw page then, I already have a redirect set from there, but I'll swap it with the existing page later
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> hi popey
[20:54] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn Ya, I think I see that icon bug your talking about, tables too. Didn't notice that before.
[20:55] <starcraftman> lo' popey
[20:55] <Rocket2DMn> yeah starcraftman , the image problem is a much bigger issue than the table one, that is just a minor rendering defect that i can look over.  but missing images causes problems
[20:59] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Right, I can definitely see how the image problem could really cripple some pages. Meetings soon, who's gonna be controlling the bot?
[21:00] <Rocket2DMn> that's a good questions starcraftman , i have no idea.  I don't think mdke_ is here
[21:01] <mdke_> just arrived
[21:01] <Rocket2DMn> cool, wb and long time no see mdke
[21:01] <starcraftman> Right on time mdke
[21:02]  * DougieRichardson waves to mdke
[21:02] <mdke> yeah, hi Rocket2DMn
[21:02]  * andrew_sayers doffs his cap
[21:02]  * mdke waves back to DougieRichardson
[21:03] <DougieRichardson> shall we get started?
[21:04] <DougieRichardson> mdke are you doing the business?
[21:04] <mdke> ok, let's move to #ubuntu-meeting
[21:21] <DougieRichardson> hey dinda
[21:21] <dinda> DougieRichardson: hey there!
[21:21]  * DougieRichardson waves to Dinda
[21:22] <DougieRichardson> You _just_ missed a discussion on the adoption of DITA and Mallard
[21:22] <dinda> is there a doc team meeting today?  or did I miss it?
[21:22] <DougieRichardson> its on now in ubuntu-meeting
[21:23] <dinda> okay, heading there now
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> wb dsas , team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting right now
[21:29] <dsas> thanks Rocket2DMn, think DougieRichardson needs to update his identica notice!
[21:30] <Rocket2DMn> haha, blame UTC for being confusing
[21:30] <DougieRichardson> what the one that says now?
[21:30] <DougieRichardson> lol
[21:30] <dsas> DougieRichardson: the one that says in #ubuntu-docs :p
[21:31] <DougieRichardson> dsas no it doesn't!
[21:33] <dsas> uhmm
[21:33] <dsas> my eyes must be broke. sorry.
[21:33] <DougieRichardson> lol
[22:54]  * popey is off to get an early night.. nn DOCrs
[22:54] <mdke> you mean transfer to popey2
[22:54] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: shoot
[22:55] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, question for you
[22:55] <popey> :)
[22:55] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, do we still want to keep existing "homepages" on h.u.c?    Last summer you said we could leave them for the time being
[22:57] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm not 100% sure - I guess leaving them is the easiest
[22:57] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah, a bit messy sometimes though
[22:57] <mdke> or moving them to the team wiki and putting a redirect?
[22:57] <Rocket2DMn> we don't need a final decision or anything right now
[22:57] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not a fan of redirecting homepages
[22:57] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: ok, what issues have you had?
[22:58] <Shane_Fagan> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenCasts/VideoEditing I just want to make a good page for the system docs
[22:58] <Rocket2DMn> most are just old and dont have a matching entry on w.u.c.  we can leave them for now i guess.  i can ask in another year, or you can let me know if you change your mind
[22:58] <Rocket2DMn> cheers
[22:59] <mdke> heh
[22:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm more than open to ideas
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> ill see what i can come up with mdke , ill get back to you on this subject
[22:59] <mdke> :)
[22:59] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: ok
[23:00] <Shane_Fagan> mdke: Then look at the page in the system docs for the same thing https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/musicvideophotos/C/video-editing.html
[23:01] <mdke> ok
[23:03] <Shane_Fagan> Its all on bug #378248
[23:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 378248 in ubuntu-docs "Video editing docs need work" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/378248
[23:04] <Shane_Fagan> The thing is that there are 2 main video editors pitivi and kino and they both do similar things the only difference is that kino has to convert the files that the user is editing to .dv files
[23:06] <Shane_Fagan> Oh and kdenlive
[23:07] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: I'll review your amended patch asap but from memory the docbook in the previous version was fine
[23:09] <Shane_Fagan> it was only one line and it didnt really explain the software
[23:09]  * mdke nods
[23:09] <Shane_Fagan> mdke: I need to submit a better patch than the one attached there
[23:12] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: ok - it's quite a difficult subject I agree, because it's not obvious how to differentiate between the different editors
[23:12] <mdke> I wonder if we should just be recommended the best one, and seek to document that more fully, hopefully referring to its existing documentation
[23:13] <Shane_Fagan> mdke: well id recommend pitivi myself after using that for a while
[23:14] <mdke> that's the recommended gnome app, isn't it?
[23:14] <Shane_Fagan> Yep
[23:15] <mdke> sounds good
[23:15] <mdke> does it have online documentation that could be linked to?
[23:15] <Shane_Fagan> Hmmm ill look
[23:15] <mdke> I guess it has system documentation too, but it's difficult to link to that because it isn't installed by default
[23:16] <Shane_Fagan> Got it http://www.pitivi.org/wiki/Manual
[23:16] <Shane_Fagan> Its a little outdated
[23:21] <mdke> ok
[23:21] <Shane_Fagan> mdke: Ill try whip something up tomorrow, ill attach it to the bug and ping you or dougie
[23:21] <mdke> still better than nothing, I suspect
[23:21] <mdke> Shane_Fagan: good plan, thanks
[23:21] <mdke> if you attach it to the bug, it'll get reviewed
[23:21] <Shane_Fagan> yep I know the routine
[23:22] <mdke> cool, thanks
[23:22] <mdke> bedtime for me
[23:23] <Shane_Fagan> nn


[03:12] <meoblast001> hi
[07:51] <ScorpKing> hi guys. where can i find the svg versions of all the *ubuntu logo's?
[08:05] <ScorpKing> nvm. found it on wikipedia
[12:44] <SiDi> Is the wiki down ?
[12:44] <SiDi> i cant get on it..
[12:44]  * SiDi hopes his ISP didn't decide to ALSO block port 443...
[13:18] <thorwil> SiDi: same here, since hours
[13:19] <SiDi> ok, feeling relieved then :P