[03:45] <mapps> hey
[03:46] <shauno> go to sleep!
[03:47] <mapps> no!
[03:47] <mapps> you!
[03:47] <shauno> that's ... not a bad idea
[03:48] <mapps> ;]
[06:40] <mapps> hey
[06:41] <jussi01> morning mapps
[06:43] <MooDoo_> morning all
[06:44] <jussi01> morning mapps
[06:44] <jussi01> and failed tab complete....
[06:45] <jussi01> meant for MooDoo :)
[06:45] <MooDoo> Don't worry today is a #fail for me as well :D
[06:46] <jussi01> MooDoo: actually, Im feeling very positive about today :)
[06:47] <MooDoo> yay :D
[06:47] <jussi01> MooDoo: I made myself a very yummy smoothie - its a rocking way to start the day
[06:49] <MooDoo> Just enabled locally integrated menus on my laptop :) 14.04 is shaping up to rock.
[06:50] <mapps> hey jussi01  whats up dude
[06:50] <mapps> oh jussi01  didnt even mean to say hi to me
[06:50] <mapps> sheesh
[06:50] <mapps> ;p
[06:50] <jussi01> mapps: Im having a good enough day that I pinged you twice :D
[06:50] <mapps> =]
[06:50] <jussi01> mapps: I had said hi before!
[06:50] <mapps> ah yea
[06:50] <mapps> lol
[06:50] <jussi01> hehe
[06:50] <mapps> pinged me? why:)
[06:51] <jussi01> (the 2x hi...)
[06:51] <mapps> oh lol
[06:51] <mapps> thought you meant a ping cmd;p
[06:51] <mapps> ;]
[06:53] <jussi01> haha
[06:53] <mapps> 14.04 isnt out? what is this a test rls?
[06:54] <jussi01> who what?
[06:55] <mapps> 14.04 release
[06:59] <MooDoo> 14.04 isn't released until april, it's not even alpha yet I don't think
[06:59] <mapps> yea
[06:59] <MooDoo> works fine at the moment though for me
[07:00] <mapps> thought someone said they did dist upgrde to 14.04
[07:00] <mapps> u on 14.04?
[07:00] <MooDoo> yeah i did
[07:00] <MooDoo> went from 12.04 to 14.04 LTS
[07:00] <mapps> what is it then if not an alpha ..a dev build youre on?
[07:01] <MooDoo> well you just update-managed -d to upgrade it :)
[07:01] <MooDoo> update-manager
[07:01] <jussi01> mapps: its alpha2 already
[07:01] <MooDoo> ah I stand corrected
[07:02] <jussi01> mapps: I have it on one machine
[07:02] <mapps> so youre on alpha2 MooDoo ? lts?:P its an alpha
[07:02] <mapps> :P
[07:02] <mapps> hehe
[07:02] <jussi01> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[07:02] <MooDoo> ah yes alpha 2 my mistake, any whoo runs ok at the moment :D
[07:02] <mapps> yea
[07:02] <mapps> 14.04 gonna be lts?
[07:03] <MooDoo> yes
[07:03] <jussi01> Kubuntu is running fine also
[07:03] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[07:03] <jussi01> the devel releases have been _much_ better since they brought in a whole bunch more testing
[07:03] <MooDoo> and now they have put the menus in the window title bar which is nice
[07:04] <mapps> kubuntu what rls
[07:04] <jussi01> we pretty much now just have ubuntu as a rolling release, with milestone "stable" releases
[07:04] <jussi01> mapps: 14.04 and 13.10
[07:04] <jussi01> 14.04 on the home lappy, 13.10 on the work machine
[07:04] <mapps> u have 14/.04 and 13.10 for kubuntu|?
[07:04] <mapps> aha
[07:04] <mapps> what u using atm o this machine
[07:05] <jussi01> Im at work now
[07:05] <mapps> aha
[07:06] <MooDoo> windows 7 at work :(
[07:06] <mapps> =[
[07:08] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[07:09] <MooDoo> any one up for a google+ hangout on the saturday evening of the global jam?
[07:09] <mapps> ive never used google+
[07:09] <mapps> is it worth me trying 14.04 MooDoo  im on 13.10?
[07:10] <MooDoo> mapps: depends, remember 14.04 is only alpha and prone to break every time you dist-upgrade, although it's not for me yet.  So entirely up to you.  if it's a stable machine you're using now, then no.  If you want to play and bug test and don't mind your machine crashing every two mins then go for it.
[07:11] <mapps> how many machines u use?
[07:12] <MooDoo> mapps: I'm nuts so I've just got the one laptop at home, and I don't mind re-installing my OS every two mins if things break besides I dual boot with windows 8 so no great loss if I need to re-install ubuntu.
[07:12] <MooDoo> Not had to yet though :D
[07:12] <MooDoo> If you're unsure don't bother, it'll be out in a few months any way :D
[07:14] <mapps> only one laptop?! no desktop/server?! !!
[07:14] <mapps> and it must be a new laptop running windows8 ..what you do with your old ones..shouldnt chuck anything away
[07:15] <MooDoo> mapps: ok I've got a VPS, which I'm talking to you from now, and a windows 7 server in my garage, but that's it.  I do have a 1u server waiting for memory and hdd's but can't afford the kit yet.  I'll vmware that baby
[07:15] <mapps> what did you do with your old machines? as a windows8 laptop must be new!
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: vmware.. or virt-manager/libvirt/kvm? :)
[07:16] <MooDoo> mapps: the old laptop was broke so I chucked it.
[07:16] <mapps> =[
[07:16] <MooDoo> mapps: I like vmware, never played with virt-manager, I could look into it I suppose :D
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no, I mean, use kvm + virt-manager etc, instead of buying vmware and using that
[07:16] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: Damn you forcing me into looking at cool stuff :)
[07:17] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: buying?  vmware esx is free isn't it still?
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but still, it's not built into the kernel, is it?
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> "VMware ESXi is a smaller footprint version of ESX that does not include the ESX Service Console. It is available without the need to purchase a vCenter license as a free download from VMware with some features disabled."
[07:18] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nope, then again I might just sell the 1u and get a couple of cheap desktops and look into playing with cloud software, liking the sound of juju :D
[07:25] <MooDoo> lol it's taken me all this time to realised the debian release code names were pixar related .. doh!!!
[07:25] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: wow.. you didn't know?!
[07:26] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: such a looser I know
[07:26] <MooDoo> next you'll be telling me the ubuntu ones were animals.
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> what's Fedora's theme thouhg
[07:30] <MooDoo> the new name must have a relationship to the last name
[07:31] <MooDoo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/History_of_Fedora_release_names
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> "beefy miracle" wut
[07:31] <MooDoo> lol that was a fun one
[07:32] <MartijnVdS> it sounds.. 18+
[07:32] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: it's logo - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V0jXwSQrxVU/T9vJREtUg4I/AAAAAAAAAk8/NjF7EjyEFgs/s1600/fedora17-beefy-miracle-500x253.jpg
[07:33] <jussi> sperical cow was awesomely named :D
[07:34] <jussi> spherical*
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> weirdos :)
[07:39] <MooDoo> lol
[07:53] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning
[08:00] <jussi> o/
[08:11] <SuperMatt> sup dudes?
[08:12] <jussi> morning SuperMatt
[08:13] <SuperMatt> y'all right?
[08:15] <diplo> Morning all
[08:17]  * jussi is having a good day :)
[08:17] <SuperMatt> huzzah!
[08:18]  * SuperMatt is simply interested to see how this day goes
[08:18] <SuperMatt> I have a full day on tickets after a month of being here
[08:19] <jussi> MartijnVdS: Jono got dressed up for Beefy miracle: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6224/6317631242_b3dfdb4b57_o.jpg
[08:19] <MooDoo> morning morning
[08:19] <SuperMatt> D:
[08:19] <SuperMatt> it's too early for that sort of thign
[08:19] <MooDoo> jussi: wow blast from the past
[08:19] <SuperMatt> why do you do this to us?
[08:19] <jussi> haha
[08:19] <MooDoo> I've have to reschedule my MS exam booooo
[08:19] <jussi> MooDoo: aaaaawwww
[08:19] <jussi> :P
[08:19] <SuperMatt> delaying the pain? I feel sorry for you :(
[08:20] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: april now :(
[08:51] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:52] <nigelb> Hello bigcalm
[08:54] <MooDoo> morning morning
[09:08] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:10] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski :)
[09:11]  * jussi waves to czajkowski
[09:19] <daubers> Morning all
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:20] <bigcalm> Looking at my bank account online, there is a payment to PayPal for 92p but there's no corresponding activity on my PayPal account. I wonder what's going on?
[09:22] <diplo> bigcalm: Isn't that a test thing to check account? Used to be 10-12p or something ? I'd raise a question with them
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> it was €0,01/€0,02 here
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> and they deposited that in my account!
[09:23] <diplo> MartijnVdS has a better memory than me.. I just remember a charge :)
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> diplo: I just searched my online bank thing for the first mention of 'paypal'
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> .. and it had enough logs to show me that authorization :)
[09:24] <diplo> :)
[09:26] <brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
[09:32] <MooDoo> morning
[09:34] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Mother Language Day! :-D
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Ook goeiemorgen! :)
[09:40] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, baie dankie!
[09:40] <JamesTait> (Sorry, I'm attempting to utilise what little Afrikaans I kind of know, so I might be way off)
[09:41] <brobostigon> guten morgen JamesTait
[09:41] <JamesTait> Auch du, brobostigon. :)
[09:41] <brobostigon> du auch :)
[09:42] <JamesTait> I was always hopeless at German. ;)
[09:42] <brobostigon> living in germany for around ten years as a child when my dad worked there, did help.
[09:45] <jussi> Hyvää Huomenta kaikkille :)
[09:45] <JamesTait> I found the same living in London for three years - helped me to make sense of those strange sounds the people down south make. ;)
[09:45] <jussi> even though my mother language is 'strayan....
[09:45] <JamesTait> jussi, bless you!
[09:46] <JamesTait> Or is that one you need a cream for?
[09:46] <jussi> lol
[09:46] <JamesTait> It looks painful, whatever it is. :-P
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> how do you pronounce that?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> it looks almost as hard to pronounce as Welsh
[09:47] <JamesTait> Steady on!
[09:48] <JamesTait> It looks as much like someone just mashed the keyboard as Welsh though.
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Proper keyboards don't have ä in an easily mashable position though
[09:49] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, maybe you're not mashing correctly. :-P
[09:49] <daubers> You people and your weird characters
[09:49] <jussi> so
[09:51] <jussi> who-vää (a with umlaut is like a in apple) who-oh-men-ta kaik-ki-leh
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> but how do you pronounce two umlauted letters in a row?!
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> just longer?
[09:52] <jussi> yes
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> jussi: https://www.facebook.com/vandeStreekBier/photos/a.451423728273961.1073741825.417406958342305/608163202600012/?type=1&theater
[09:53] <JamesTait> Is kaik like cake, or like kike?
[09:53] <jussi> kike
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> jussi: one of my brewing brothers is in Tampere (I think) atm :)
[09:53] <jussi> :D
[09:54] <bigcalm> Ooo, Linux Voice just popped through my letter box
[10:25] <popey> \o/ Linux Voice arrived
[10:25] <jussi> popey: seems to be a common theme :D
[10:25] <SuperMatt> linux voice?
[10:26] <popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice
[10:27] <SuperMatt> h cool
[10:27] <SuperMatt> oh
[10:27] <bigcalm> oh, it's magic
[10:28] <SuperMatt> ¬.¬
[10:30] <bigcalm> :P
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> top
[10:33] <foobarry> linux voice sounds like some political pressure group
[10:34] <bigcalm> Top left of the cover "Stop President Obama from reading your emails" - it's political already
[10:35] <foobarry> LOL
[10:35] <foobarry> little bit sensationalist
[10:35] <foobarry> i don't think barry obama has the time to personally read my mail
[10:35] <bigcalm> According to Ars Technica, "Ubuntu desktop moving application menus back into application windows". I had just got used to the global menu system
[10:36] <foobarry> global menu was a major reason in me going away
[10:36] <kvarley> But offtopic but are there any webdevs here?
[10:36] <dwatkins> but yes
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> the global menu is a total PITA on a big screen - I'm forever moving the mouse miles to get to the menu. So glad in-app menus are coming back. :-D
[10:37] <popey> bigcalm: you can still use it
[10:37] <popey> its optional
[10:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: Kind of
[10:38] <kvarley> I have an issue solely with Firefox 27 and up. MJPEG <img>s aren't working. They either load the first frame or the first second then stop working. If switch the tag to <iframe> they work. In Firefox 26 the site works perfectly tho. Ideas?
[10:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry nope. Never heard of MJPEG until now ;-)
[10:40] <kvarley> Haha no worries thanks anyway TheOpenSourcerer
[10:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Helpful? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5269376/cross-browser-solution-for-displaying-mjpeg-stream
[10:42] <kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: The original system used cambozola. I want to avoid it. No need for plugins it's 2014!! haha
[10:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: just stream plain H.264 using <video> elements ;)
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe <video> does MJPEG too?
[10:43] <kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Annoyingly I NEED Firefox to work because it's the only browser that lets me change the max persistent http connections per server
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: why do you need so many though?
[10:44] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a CCTV system. 1 stream per camera
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: ah.. I've had lots of problems with keeping the connections going with that
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: for more than 10 minutes
[11:01] <kvarley> Anybody know if SPDY still limits max persistent connections?
[11:02] <kvarley> Reading online I get the impression it shoves many streams down one pipe essentially
[12:05] <jmorgan_>  /join difftunes
[12:09] <bigcalm> Is that were the output of diff is auto-tuned?
[12:14] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: diff foo bar > /dev/audio
[12:16] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Just the sound of madness
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: One Step Beyond!
[12:17] <bigcalm> I used to SSH into a friends' machine and cat something from /boot to friends' /dev/audio
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: alarm clock style?
[12:17] <bigcalm> Na, just to be a dick :P
[12:18] <MooDoo> madness madness brings you nothing but gladness, buy a sekonda, it'll bring you nothing but gladness
[12:18] <xnox_> Need to get 1,471 MB of archives.
[12:18]  * MooDoo wonders if people are to young to remember that
[12:18] <xnox_> i love the FF rush of uploads.
[12:37] <bigcalm> A rush of uploads to the head
[12:45] <diplo> Anyone here do much in the way of infosec ? Or actually not really needing that..
[12:46] <diplo> Basically recently we've had a few customers servers connected to via weak passwords and irc bot/servers installed on them
[12:47] <diplo> Running very old versions of distros, I'm trying to find out responsibility on this point, I read a document about it a little while ago that as we offer the service we are responsible, even though customers refuse to let us upgrade
[12:47] <diplo> Wondering if anyone knows of any write ups about it so I can read and pass around, failing on my searches atm
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> diplo: I think it depends on what was communicated between you and customer about upgrading and (password) security
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> diplo: if you warned them that the software was old, and insecure, I'd guess it's their problem
[12:49] <diplo> We ( as a software company ) offer services like Firewall boxes and sysadmin stuff for customers, the guys who do it aren't that knowledgeable, I've found these things without anyone noticing it
[12:49] <diplo> :/
[12:50] <diplo> I read something that basically countered that MartijnVdS, but for the life of me I can't find it.
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> diplo: ouch!
[12:51] <diplo> I've told my bosses in a meeting last week that what we offer is appalling and not secure and they really ought to find out if they are liable, guess what.. they asked me to :/
[12:51] <diplo> I'm a software guy in the company supposedly
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> php? ;)
[12:54] <brobostigon> star trek, undiscovered country, film4 13:50, :)
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Shakespearen Klingons?
[12:54] <brobostigon> oh yes, :)
[12:54] <diplo> php/simple ( our own language :( ) python/perl/c/c++
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> diplo: sometimes, bosses only (want to) listen to an outside consultant.
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> diplo: maybe get one to do a security audit of your system/software (NDAs in place etc. of course)
[12:55] <diplo> But if anything goes wrong, basically I have to fix it as the guys who work here know what they know and not much more
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> diplo: ugh..
[12:56] <MooDoo> diplo: ffs sack them and get people in that know, you can't be held responsible for everything, are you a manager as you should be doing that stuff
[12:56] <diplo> Well one of our customers had a PCI compliancy test, we're not pci compliant anyhoo so not sure why they had it, but it showed a fair few failings
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> diplo: well, if that doesn't get them moving, nothing will
[12:56] <diplo> MooDoo: Small company, most people been there 10-25 years ( this code was written in assembly before )
[12:57] <MooDoo> diplo: ah that explains it....
[12:57] <diplo> That's why I wanted to try and find some good docs to send
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> diplo: at least set up proper firewalls (including some detection of repeated attempts at bad stuff, like fail2ban)
[12:57] <diplo> At least I've felt like I've done my part
[12:57] <diplo> yeah, anything I've setup does.
[12:58] <diplo> We run SMEServer, I hadn't heard of it before joining
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> proper release plans, including deprecation of old versions?
[12:58] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: looks like there are more - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26287517 :)
[12:58] <diplo> But it's based on centos4 ( eol )
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: good thing I run openwrt :)
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: though I did have to patch my NAS..
[12:59] <diplo> hah, MartijnVdS that's where I want to get to! I think we need a fulltime sysadmin for all customer sites but not getting that through to them
[12:59] <MooDoo> :) I never got round to attatching my hdd to the router, glad I didn't lol
[12:59] <jussi> Ramen noodles just hit the spot sometimes...
[13:00] <MooDoo> jussi: ooo yeah we have a wagamammas here and I love chicken ramen
[13:00] <jussi> especially when they arent the cheapest crappy ones, but the ones that include some sort of "paste" garlic, chilli etc.
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> jussi: you know "ramen" is just the Dutch word for "windows", right? ;)
[13:00] <jussi> MartijnVdS: heh
[13:20] <dwatkins> So if you combine Windows ME, Windows CE and Windows NT in the Netherlands, you get ramen cement...
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you might :)
[13:27] <dwatkins> I was looking into Tor the other week, it has a bootable ISO which presents a linux environment that looks very much like Windows XP.
[13:27] <dwatkins> in case you want to hide the fact you're running linux
[13:39] <MooDoo> windows rocks...[/troll mode off]
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: have you ever *tried* throwing rocks at windows? ;)
[13:40] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no, I just multiboot rocks at windows when I get fed up with ubuntu lol
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: then you see Win8, and you quickly reboot into Ubuntu again? ;)
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> (because of its sanity, of course)
[13:41] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol actually I quite like 8.1 :D
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> it's good enough to run games on.. and probably web browsers/office stuff as well
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> but I couldn't code on it
[13:42] <foobarry> i hate vmware grrrrr
[13:43] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I like visual studio
[13:43] <foobarry> spent all day trying to get some vds working
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I prefer vim :)
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: if you run vmware illegally, is it "vmwarez"?
[13:43] <foobarry> final step, everything got destroyed
[13:43] <foobarry> lolz
[13:44] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you can't get vmware illegally lol it's free :p
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there must be some way to break their T&Cs
[13:45] <foobarry> vsphere isn't free
[13:45] <shauno> they have paid versions too.  fusion & workstation aren't free
[13:45] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I don't know coz for vmware esx/vsphere you actually need a license
[13:45] <MooDoo> i was referring to esxi which is :)
[13:46] <foobarry> well its all shagged
[13:46] <foobarry> i have 3 hrs to fix
[13:46] <MooDoo> lol oops
[13:46] <shauno> hm; someone, somewhere must have a 3hr version of the countdown tune
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> or a 3 hour drumroll
[13:47] <dwatkins> foobarry: at least having already done it, this process should be faster
[13:47] <foobarry> no
[13:47] <dwatkins> oh, bah
[13:47] <MooDoo> you could use this 10 min one a few times on repeat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3-OgjtSJQ
[13:47] <foobarry> seting up a distributed switch requires runes and chanting
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> \o/ openvswitch
[13:49] <dwatkins> I think I'd rather listen to 10 hours of Nyan Cat.
[13:50] <daubers> dwatkins: But to some people that's purest pleasure!
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> daubers: yes but those people are out on the far end of the bell curve
[13:50] <daubers> s/bell/hell/
[13:51] <daubers> fixed that for you :)
[13:52] <MooDoo> check this one out then :) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktbhw0v186Q
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: a night at the roxbury!
[13:53] <MooDoo> lol
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's what that's from - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120770/
[13:53] <MooDoo> yeah I know :D  just smiled
[13:57] <dwatkins> daubers: yeah, some people are twisted ;)
[13:57] <dwatkins> This is my theme for the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM - Happy, by Pharrell Williams
[14:07] <daubers> I'm qui9te happy listening to the Mirrors Edge soundtrack
[14:07] <dwatkins> neat
[14:09] <foobarry> 2hrs 30....no progress :(
[14:09] <dwatkins> what caused the disaster, foobarry?
[14:09] <dwatkins> is it something you could recover the data from somehow?
[14:09] <foobarry> everything resides in vcenter server
[14:10] <foobarry> when u set it up , the last step is to migrate the vecenter to the new distrobuited switch you creaated
[14:10] <foobarry> but if it goes wrong, the esxi hosts get screwed
[14:10] <foobarry> and the mutant vecnter server is managing them but can't start
[14:11] <dwatkins> I'm guessing you don't have a backup from that point in time, though.
[14:11] <foobarry> no, its not a backupable thing
[14:12] <dwatkins> ah ok, some articles on their site suggest you could do a database restore etc.
[14:12] <xnox_> Laney: ouch..... that was bad shot.... GB cleared their own stones out of the house.....
[14:12] <foobarry> i wasn't at that stage
[14:12] <dwatkins> :(
[14:13] <foobarry> meanwhile i have someone sitting next to me who hasn't moved a muscle in 3 hours
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> is he pining for the fjords?
[14:17] <foobarry> pinig for p45
[14:22] <dwatkins> I worked with someone once who stopped working when there was a threat of redundancies, in the hope he would get laid-off. I think he failed in his attempts, though.
[14:26] <foobarry> kinda stressful as i've been working my tits off for the last 2 months
[14:37] <dwatkins> yeah, that sucks
[14:37] <dwatkins> that it's all having to be re-done, that is
[14:38] <bigcalm> Due to buying the recent HIB, I have a spare copy of Antichamber for a good home (you need to be on steam)
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> I already have SuperMatt's copy
[14:41] <MooDoo> bigcalm: if you're giving it away, I'll have it :D
[14:41] <SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: you forgot to add "because SuperMatt is awesome"
[14:42] <bigcalm> MooDoo: are you on steam?
[14:42] <MooDoo> bigcalm: yes I'm just trying to login to get my id or what ever you need.
[14:43] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what's your SUper Hexagon record? ;)
[14:43] <SuperMatt> I haven't played yet
[14:44] <SuperMatt> my schedule is normally extremely rammed
[14:44] <MooDoo> bigcalm: THANKS :)
[14:45] <dwatkins> I still havn't played Banished having bought it on the day it was out (18th)
[14:45] <andyc> Does anyone here mount home over a network?  I do this but have occasional problems when something goes wrong with my file server, making my machine grind to a halt as my /home has dissappeared.  Is there a reliable way to do this?
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> andyc: yes, don't make the file server disappear ;)
[14:45] <andyc> :P
[14:45] <dwatkins> you could mirror it instead, I suppose
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> I've switched back to local /home with backups
[14:46] <andyc> MartijnVdS, This is what I was going to do actually
[14:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, first read that as "Does anyone here mount over a home network"... Ooops :-(
[14:46] <bigcalm> MooDoo: most welcome
[14:47] <andyc> Do you keep pictures/videos/etc separate and mount those in your home?
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> no
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> I mount them in /mnt/videos
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[14:50] <andyc> OK thanks, I do that too at the moment but symlink them to /home/$/Videos.  It's not really working out
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> why not?
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> also, which network file system do you use?
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> cifs? nfs? something else?
[14:52] <andyc> sshfs or nfs usually
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> sshfs lacks operations that some programs *need* to function, also, a lot slower than nfs ;)
[14:53] <andyc> interesting I didn't know that
[15:02] <dwatkins> you could also use iscsi or aoe, which might be faster (since it just passes the disk's own communication straight across the network without additional layers such as security)
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: iscsi + ipsec!
[15:03] <dwatkins> sounds like a combination full of win, MartijnVdS
[15:06] <dwatkins> grep -R is my friend
[15:06] <andyc> cool thanks for the suggestions.  I'll likely be reinstalling all machines come 14.04 time so will look in to it
[15:08] <andyc> getting a couple of hdds for the server soon so just planning how I'm going to organise it all
[15:52] <diplo> Anyone know much about php cli in here?
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> diplo: I know to avoid it ;)
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> diplo: what do you want to know?
[15:52] <diplo> I've got a ph cli prog that calls soap
[15:52] <diplo> Works fine everywhere apart from my new vps
[15:53] <diplo> Runs and quits, no errors in any logs
[15:53] <diplo> but doesn't do anything
[15:53] <diplo> just goes back to the prompt
[15:53] <diplo> Can't work out how to debug it :/
[15:54] <diplo> Nothing has been written to any log files at all, soap defo working ok as I have a page that calls the same thing but in a web page and displays correctly
[15:54] <diplo> So ruling out soap library issue
[16:02] <diplo> Ah, think I have it!
[16:02] <diplo> :)
[16:03] <bigcalm> Woo, Nationwide be numpties: I'm sorry to hear you're still unable to view your Nationwide <$_PLACEHOLDER:name=insert,description=insert,values=,type=text_$> account online. I've forwarded your message to our Technology department who will investigate this further; your Incident Reference is <$_PLACEHOLDER:name=insert,description=insert,values=,type=text_$>, please quote this in any communications.
[16:08] <dwatkins> can you reply with "Thanks $GENERIC_MAILMERGE_APPLICATION"?
[16:09] <diplo> And fixed!
[16:09] <dwatkins> what was it, diplo?
[16:09] <dwatkins> magic...
[16:12] <diplo> Umm, me
[16:12] <diplo> Well partially
[16:12] <diplo> So I basically loop through a db of products looking for a certain type of code, if it exists we do a soap call to grab info for it
[16:13] <diplo> Well someone upgraded the server, and I hadn't committed the changes to the code that the program calls into our trunk, I've been building it manually.. noone told me it had been upgraded
[16:13] <diplo> So basically the info it was looking for wasn't there..
[16:13] <diplo> Just set myself a case to say, 'No info here dumb***" or something just so it reminds me if something similar happens again
[16:16] <dwatkins> groovy
[16:16] <dwatkins> fun with version mismatches
[16:18] <diplo> Yeah, I've coded rounded the issues we have, but hadn't committed changes till about 2 hours ago
[16:18] <diplo> Was upgraded yesterday
[17:03] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rare8nxoi3rpyb4/comparison.png
[17:03] <daftykins> telco called this morning to say some form of issue was identified in the exchange - thus i am now on a 'new route', seems he didn't understand well enough to tell me exactly
[17:04] <daftykins> so my downstream SNR is back up and full rate restored :D
[17:06] <dwatkins> they didn't understand signal-to-noise? What kind of technician were they? ;)
[17:09] <mapps> hello
[17:14] <daftykins> dwatkins: well no he just didn't explain what was changed in any technical form
[17:38] <dwatkins> daftykins: fair enough, I suppose - probably just got their callcentre to make a bunch of calls to everyone who logged an issue
[17:38] <mapps> urgh
[17:38] <mapps> saving moneys hard
[17:38] <dwatkins> are you?
[17:38] <mapps> need to yea
[17:39] <mapps> else il never get enough of a deposit together
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Does anyone remember what the problem was with supporting Via C3 CPUs?
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Was it just PAE, or also something else? (some compiler flag)
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> ah CMOV, that's it
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> but I have that flag.. hmm
[19:17] <maps|wrk> hello
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> evening
[19:28] <maps|wrk> up to much? what was all that virtualisation stuff you were talking of earlier not vmware something else
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> kvm?
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> + virt-manager ?
[19:29] <maps|wrk> tyhat could be it but also mention lib something
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> libvirt-bin
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> (the stuff that virt-manager talks to)
[19:31] <maps|wrk> aha
[19:31] <maps|wrk> and kvm comes in where
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> libvirt can manage all kinds of virtualization methods
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> kvm being one of the best integrated ones
[19:32] <maps|wrk> aha
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> and you can use virt-manager to create VMs etc
[19:32] <maps|wrk> not entirtely sure on kvm i remember reading up a tiny bit about it
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: do you know qemu?
[19:33] <maps|wrk> nop heard of but nothing more..why
[19:33] <maps|wrk> kvm and qemu is different to a normal vmware/vbox virtualisation?
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> well, KVM is a kernel module to do virtualization, and it's most often used using a special qemu :)
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> qemu can also *emulate* instead of virtualize
[19:34] <maps|wrk> when you say kernel so u dont boot into an os to run a virtual?
[19:34] <MooDoo> evening all
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> you boot Ubuntu, then it starts libvirt which starts VMs running on that Ubuntu machine
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> so similar to virtualbox
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> but Free and less crappy ;)
[19:35] <maps|wrk> aha
[19:35] <maps|wrk> and thats kvm?
[19:35] <maps|wrk> so where does qemu come in if kvm can do it all
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> what most people mean when they say "kvm" is that, yes.
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you use the "kvm" kernel parts with a special "qemu" binary
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> that does not emulate (like it normally would), but that hands over control to kvm instead
[19:36] <MooDoo> is it sad I look forward to my daily apt-get dist-upgrade?
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/FAQ
[19:36] <maps|wrk> aha
[19:37] <maps|wrk> daily?:P
[19:37] <MooDoo> maps|wrk: yeah daily :D
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> trusty -> daily upgrade
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it's not sad :)
[19:37] <MooDoo> :S
[19:37] <MooDoo> :D
[19:39] <daftykins> MooDoo: are you a gambling man? :D
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: for the last 3-4 releases, the "unstable" one has been surprisingly good
[19:39] <MooDoo> daftykins: when it comes to ubuntu yup indeedy, dist-upgrade and it's 50/50 if it'll boot again or not lol
[19:40] <daftykins> :D
[19:40] <maps|wrk> lol
[19:41] <maps|wrk> so i shiuldnt do a dist-upgrade remotely now
[19:41] <maps|wrk> else i may lose my irc;p
[19:41] <MooDoo> well mine is fine :D then again i've not rebooted since doing it lol
[19:43] <maps|wrk> hmm ok chrome just crashed says crashed send error report etc on my work machine
[19:44] <maps|wrk> so i ignored it and dragged the error box to the corner and everything seems to be ok:)
[20:38] <maps|wrk> anyone evr extended/boosted their wireless signal?
[20:38] <maps|wrk> most products im looking at dont seem to give a range
[20:46] <foobarry> notices opensourcerer's name on http://standards.data.gov.uk/proposal/sharing-collaborating-government-documents
[20:52] <maps|wrk> contempt:  having internet problems?:<
[20:52] <ilinux> Hi
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: "If you're having net problems I feel bad for you son, I have 99 problem but IP ain't one"
[20:53] <maps|wrk> lol
[20:53] <maps|wrk> hi ilinux
[20:53] <maps|wrk> :)
[20:54] <ilinux> this empathy irc window is gonna take some getting used to lol
[20:55] <ilinux> I choose the ilinux nick as I have a white Toshiba laptop that looks like a kmac wannabe
[20:55] <ilinux> *mac
[20:58] <maps|wrk> haha
[20:58] <maps|wrk> :D
[20:59] <maps|wrk> what version you on ubuntu 13.10?
[21:00] <ilinux> yeah
[21:00] <ilinux> Empathy just crashed :(
[21:01] <maps|wrk> aha
[21:01] <maps|wrk> im on xubuntu 13.10 what specs your laptop
[21:03] <ilinux> dualcore pentium with 8gb ram
[21:03] <ilinux> funny thing is ubuntu is running much faster than xfce manjaro was
[21:04] <maps|wrk> hm
[21:04] <maps|wrk> surprising, xfce is meant to be lightweight
[21:04] <maps|wrk> i like xfce :)
[21:05] <ilinux> I think it's due to some of the tools I was using ubuntuone and some others maybe. Interestingly Ubuntu shows no startup apps
[21:06] <ilinux> My favorite DE is probably lxde
[21:09] <ilinux> I loved lubuntu but haven't tried xubuntu for a few years. Is it good?
[21:10] <maps|wrk> hm yea ive used lubumtu
[21:10] <maps|wrk> howcome youre using ubuntu now if you like lubuntu
[21:11] <maps|wrk> ilike it ilinux  running it on an old dell desktop./.2gb ram dual core thing..it works fine but if i compile something big..wow it sounds like a plans taking off:D
[21:11] <ilinux> I thought I'd give 13.10 a go.
[21:12] <maps|wrk> xubuntu 13.10:)
[21:12] <ilinux> I don't hate unity or anything but I'll give it a tryout and maybe go with lubuntu or xubuntu
[21:13] <ilinux> Ah stuff it I might just give xubuntu a go in a minute lol
[21:15] <maps|wrk> so ubuntu doesnt use gnome anymore?
[21:16] <ilinux> ubuntu uses gnome
[21:16] <ilinux> unity is built on gnome shell
[21:17] <ilinux> isn't it?
[21:33] <jpds> ilinux: Nope.
[23:03] <maps|wrk> hello#
[23:03] <diddledan> morning
[23:03] <shauno> o/
[23:04] <diddledan> edward snowden tribute linux?
[23:04]  * diddledan just listening to the linux voice podcast
[23:05] <diddledan> http://www.binaryemotions.com/snowden/
[23:06] <maps|wrk> hm how long is it?
[23:06] <maps|wrk> what you upto shauno  you're always here, ever sleep:P
[23:06] <shauno> seems a tad pointless?
[23:06] <diddledan> just over an hour
[23:07] <shauno> I always sleep
[23:09] <diddledan> perl is unreadable by human minds. does that mean it's actually non-free? (question posed by the podcast)
[23:11] <ali1234> when was the ubuntu edge supposed to be released if it got funded?
[23:11] <ali1234> wasn't it about now?
[23:12] <diddledan> ali1234: somewhen soon
[23:12] <diddledan> I don't recall the actual date
[23:12] <maps|wrk> what is edge
[23:13] <maps|wrk> note to self .. find out about pam tally :D
[23:13] <ali1234> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
[23:15] <maps|wrk> being that pam tally was the cause of my sudo issues and pam_tally --reset fixed it all:D
[23:18] <maps|wrk> watching 1st dates atm :D
[23:20] <shauno> May 2014 seems a bit silly for the delivery dates now.  especially since most the stuff they were promising still doesn't exist
[23:20] <ali1234> is that what they said?
[23:20] <ali1234> it doesn't really seem that unrealistic to me
[23:21] <shauno> that's in the sidebar on the page you linked, at least
[23:21] <ali1234> so it is :)
[23:22] <shauno> I'm not sure anyone's put that much ram in a phone yet?
[23:22] <diddledan> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/01/30/theres-a-giant-robot-directing-traffic-in-congo/
[23:22] <shauno> last I heard apple were still the only ones with a 64bit phone
[23:23] <maps|wrk> how much ram
[23:23] <maps|wrk> ya think thats true atm
[23:23] <shauno> but then the edge apparently had a 'desktop class' cpu hidden up its sleeve.  and a battery made out of unicorn farts to power it
[23:23] <popey> meow
[23:23] <ali1234> quad core phones are quite common now, as is 2GB RAM and 64GB storage
[23:24] <diddledan> mmm, unicornmeat
[23:24] <maps|wrk> how much ram is it talking about tho
[23:24] <ali1234> the edge was supposed to have 4GB
[23:24] <diddledan> c.f. http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e5a7/
[23:27] <ali1234> the galaxy S5 should be out soon and it's quite likely it will have better specs than the S4, which means at least 3GB ram and quad core
[23:27] <maps|wrk> ah
[23:27] <maps|wrk> what about the i6
[23:27] <ali1234> what is i6?
[23:28] <maps|wrk> 64bit more memory, maybe thinner..maybe a saphire screen..that'd be cool
[23:28] <maps|wrk> iphone 6:D
[23:28] <ali1234> oh you mean iphone
[23:28] <maps|wrk> september it'll be out
[23:28] <maps|wrk> ya
[23:28] <ali1234> well, iphone is not sold on specs
[23:28] <ali1234> so don't expect anything amazing, except maybe that hi res screen
[23:28] <maps|wrk> apple have apparently been buying up saphire production stuff ..and that stuff makes pretty tough displays
[23:28] <maps|wrk> id go for a tough display OVER anything else atm
[23:29]  * hamitron would go for something that is sweat resistant :/
[23:30] <maps|wrk> ah yea for sure..when i use my iphone if i take a call after the gym like uhh phone gets sweaty and then cant use any of the buttons
[23:30] <maps|wrk> but a tougher screen would be so handy, atm its way too easy to break the screens imo
[23:30] <ali1234> i don't know how people do it personally
[23:30] <maps|wrk> break their screens?
[23:30] <ali1234> yes
[23:31] <hamitron> my ngage died when I was working and sweat drowned it inside my pocket last summer
[23:31] <hamitron> :/
[23:31] <ali1234> now you're really siiiiiide-talkin'
[23:31] <diddledan> a colleage managed to break two nexus7 displays shortly after each other
[23:31] <maps|wrk> uhh i dropped my i5 in the gym and the screen broke..dropped it onto a carpeted floor./mustve landed badly
[23:31] <maps|wrk> theyre quite fragile imo
[23:31] <ali1234> well i have no experience of iphones
[23:31] <hamitron> ali1234, saved getting grease on the screen from my face ;)
[23:31] <maps|wrk> lol replaced the nexus7 displauy then broke it again or 2 diff ones diddledan ?
[23:32] <diddledan> replaced thefirst display and killed the second shortly after
[23:32] <hamitron> I dropped my nokia lumia 710 on my motorbike onto the road at 50-60mph
[23:32] <hamitron> and it lives
[23:32] <hamitron> ;/
[23:33] <maps|wrk> you went back to get it? musnt have been a really busy road i guess?
[23:33] <hamitron> country lane
[23:33] <hamitron> :)
[23:33] <maps|wrk> well me personallly i think saphire displays would be ace
[23:33] <ali1234> nokia knows how to build stuff that doesn't beak
[23:33] <hamitron> I thought it had broken this week actually
[23:33] <maps|wrk> http://www.stuff.tv/apple/apple-iphone-6-and-iwatch-could-have-unscratchable-sapphire-screens/news
[23:34] <hamitron> I filled the memory and it lost data :/
[23:34] <hamitron> but all working fine now
[23:34] <diddledan> what are we supposed to call nokia phones now they're wholly owned by not nokia?
[23:34] <ali1234> more importantly, who cares?
[23:34] <hamitron> I'm calling mine lumia, just to hide the MS link
[23:34] <hamitron> ;/
[23:34] <ali1234> nobody is fooled
[23:35]  * hamitron cries
[23:35] <maps|wrk> http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/539776/20140221/iphone-6-price-significantly-increases-due-sapphire.htm
[23:35] <maps|wrk> thats bad though
[23:35] <maps|wrk> price increase..the  phones already cost a fortune sim free and off contract
[23:35] <hamitron> I just wish there was some other option to windows phones, that I liked
[23:36] <maps|wrk> windows phones dont have enough apps iirc? developers dont bother with them droid and ios before windows?
[23:36] <maps|wrk> what do nokia phones run now? i thought i read Nokia were releasing a low budget android handset?
[23:36] <hamitron> well, I've found enough apps to fill 8GB
[23:36] <hamitron> :/
[23:37] <diddledan> maps|wrk: any androids that come out of nokia would have been planned before the microsoft takeover
[23:37] <maps|wrk> so what will new nokia handsets run
[23:37] <diddledan> windows
[23:38] <hamitron> MS have pretty much bought their mobiles unit
[23:39] <hamitron> still wish I could get a phone like a n900 that has a basic linux distro on it
[23:39] <hamitron> ;)
[23:39] <diddledan> even ubuntu touch is a weird locked-down beast
[23:40] <hamitron> a toy with control, no real apps needed, just.... a toy
[23:40] <maps|wrk> n900 had just linux
[23:40] <maps|wrk> isnt there some handsets that are made to a small number that run linux read some link ages ago
[23:40] <maps|wrk> noty a big manufacturer obv
[23:40] <maps|wrk> so windows mobile is it diddledan ?
[23:40] <ali1234> yeah, the firefox phone
[23:40] <diddledan> maps|wrk: windows phone
[23:41] <ali1234> they were pretty rubbish
[23:41] <hamitron> it has to be decent specs ofc
[23:41] <ali1234> specs wise, they were bottom-end smartphones
[23:41] <ali1234> roughly equivalent to galaxy S1 iirc
[23:41] <diddledan> the openmoko?
[23:41] <hamitron> 200mhz+ cpu would do me, with 512MB memory
[23:41] <hamitron> but a good screen
[23:41] <hamitron> and open source drivers
[23:41] <hamitron> :)
[23:41] <ali1234> you can't have a good screen and a 200mhz cpu
[23:42] <ali1234> it's not possible
[23:42] <diddledan> the openmoko was low-end even back when it was released
[23:42] <hamitron> I only want 480x800
[23:42] <hamitron> or something
[23:42] <ali1234> drawing things on the screen takes work and when you double the resolution your quadruple the amount of work
[23:42] <ali1234> 480x800 is what the N900 had
[23:42] <hamitron> that is fine
[23:42] <hamitron> :)
[23:43] <ali1234> the N900 only had one crippling flaw and that is the resistive touchscreen
[23:43] <maps|wrk> that could be the one diddledan
[23:43] <hamitron> ali1234, supply is now the issue
[23:43] <hamitron> at the time, price was my main issue with it
[23:43] <ali1234> hamitron: not really, there are plenty of them still available
[23:43] <maps|wrk> i like the idea of the firefox phone and eveything html5 no locked down eco system/walled garden -0 the phones are low spec BUT they also cost a fraction of say an i5/s4
[23:43] <hamitron> ali1234, just scared of getting a fake
[23:43] <hamitron> :/
[23:43] <ali1234> a fake??
[23:44] <ali1234> you can walk in to any cash converter type store and buy one
[23:44] <hamitron> I want new
[23:44] <hamitron> :/
[23:44] <ali1234> well, you won't get a new one
[23:44] <hamitron> 99.8% of 2nd hand phones have shit on them
[23:44] <hamitron> as loads use them at the toilet
[23:44] <ali1234> literally?
[23:44] <hamitron> ;)
[23:44] <hamitron> yeh
[23:44] <ali1234> nice
[23:44] <ali1234> get a second hand one and clean it
[23:45] <hamitron> clean it?
[23:45] <hamitron> :|
[23:45] <ali1234> it's actually relatively easy to disassemble
[23:45] <ali1234> anyway, you want to get a neo900
[23:45] <hamitron> are all the drivers open?
[23:45] <ali1234> hell no
[23:46] <ali1234> that isn't possible
[23:46] <hamitron> yeh :/
[23:46] <ali1234> unless you only want GSM 9600 bps
[23:46] <ali1234> http://neo900.org/
[23:46] <hamitron> just looking
[23:46] <hamitron> not actually heard of it tbh
[23:47] <ali1234> it's run by a very well known and trusted member of maemo and openmoko community
[23:47] <ali1234> so no worries about them running away with the money
[23:47] <ali1234> they might totally fail to deliver of course
[23:48] <ali1234> but they are capable of delivering, assuming nothing unexected happens
[23:48] <hamitron> that is exactly what I want tbh
[23:48] <hamitron> :D
[23:48] <ali1234> not quite, it will still have the nasty reisstive touch screen
[23:48] <hamitron> well, nearest I'll get
[23:49] <maps|wrk> whats that
[23:49] <hamitron> suppose I'll miss my live tiles
[23:49] <hamitron> ;)
[23:49] <maps|wrk> reissitive?
[23:50] <ali1234> resistive touchscreen is the old type of touchscreen that is really innaccurate and needs a stylus
[23:50] <ali1234> and you have to press on it really hard
[23:50] <maps|wrk> ah
[23:51] <maps|wrk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f347m914gY
[23:51] <ali1234> if you had a smartphone before iphone, it probably had a resistive screen
[23:51] <maps|wrk> watching that - cant wait for august
[23:52] <hamitron> omg ali1234
[23:52] <hamitron> the price
[23:52] <hamitron> :/
[23:52] <ali1234> yes?
[23:52] <ali1234> well that's what a new N900 would cost you
[23:52] <hamitron> 600 t 850 euro
[23:52] <hamitron> to*
[23:53] <hamitron> I've never paid more than £99 for a phone
[23:53] <hamitron> ;)
[23:53] <ali1234> i've never paid anything for a phone
[23:53] <hamitron> my statement stands for no contract
[23:53] <hamitron> :)
[23:54] <ali1234> i've never had a contract phone either
[23:54] <maps|wrk> i was wondering what to do about my phone when i go abroad..dont really wanna take an iphone 5 incase i lose it or whatever - just take a crap old non smartphone?
[23:54] <hamitron> aha! someone as tight as me! \o/
[23:54] <ali1234> maps|wrk: that video should have ended with him going on a killing spree
[23:54] <maps|wrk> lol
[23:54] <maps|wrk> why
[23:54] <ali1234> i dunno
[23:55] <ali1234> ever seen that film, american beauty?
[23:55] <maps|wrk> ya
[23:55] <ali1234> video reminded me of that
[23:57] <shauno> do you lose phones often?
[23:57] <ali1234> i've only ever lost one phone
[23:58] <diddledan> I don't think I've ever lost a phone
[23:58] <ali1234> it was a philips diga
[23:58] <maps|wrk> na i dont,..but id be in ibiza
[23:59] <maps|wrk> figured could be easy to lose one
[23:59] <shauno> my main worry taking a phone on holiday is that I'll end up using it.  and then have to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay for the data