[14:26] <cjohnston> dont tell him that
[21:46] <rsajdok> Which version of postgres is used in loco-team-portal?
[21:49] <daker> rsajdok: for dev ?
[21:56] <rsajdok> daker: no, on server
[21:57] <daker> rsajdok: i have no idea
[22:00] <rsajdok> daker: Who has?:)
[22:01] <daker> Canonical sysadmins (IS)
[22:03] <rsajdok> daker: I ask because I have an idea for solving one bug by using the PostGIS
[22:03] <rsajdok> daker: Do you know his name?
[22:04] <daker> rsajdok: think 2.0.13-2ubuntu2
[22:05] <daker> i think*


[01:43] <diddledan> this is reassuring: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/824069134363332608
[02:02] <diddledan> emergency! kittens! https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/824074862981500929
[07:28] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[09:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, morning
[09:09] <SuperMatt> good morning
[09:09] <SuperMatt> WFH day today :D
[09:10] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I almost always do :)  I sometimes work from the caravan too :)
[09:10] <davmor2> SuperMatt: the commute is aweful right
[09:16] <zmoylan-pi> heard of someone who worked during their commute and that time was taken into consideration so an hour each way commute meant only 6 hours in the office per day...
[09:53] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy A Room Of One’s Own Day! 😃
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> i'd cheer but i'd wake up a bunch of people... :-P
[09:55] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Q3mHyzn78
[10:33] <SuperMatt> oooh, I'd love a room of my own, but the cat and wife have differenr ideas
[10:34] <zmoylan-pi> you just need to set the cat against the wife and while they're fighting go off and find a quiet corner... :-P
[10:34] <SuperMatt> They love each other too much
[10:35] <zmoylan-pi> never said it would be easy...
[10:36] <SuperMatt> It couldn't happen, I'ms sure of it
[10:37] <foobarry> can anyone see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1180652 please?
[10:37] <zmoylan-pi> what i'm hearing is that they're so tight that they must be plotting against you... :-P
[10:38] <zmoylan-pi> 'you are not authorised to access bug #'...
[10:39] <foobarry> my login doesn't seem to work with the bugzilla
[10:43] <awilkins> Is there an Ubuntu / Canonical team that has overall responsibility for VPN?
[11:13] <SuperMatt> I'm sure they just pull from upstream projects
[11:41] <diplo> Hey guys, if you were to change /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max
[11:41] <diplo> would you use sysctl or echo value > /proc/sys....
[11:41] <diplo> ?
[11:41] <diplo> Just a temp test
[11:42] <SuperMatt> I think both would work
[11:43] <SuperMatt> I would do sysctl myself, because chances are I want it to persist
[11:43] <SuperMatt> and I'd write it to /ect/sysctl.conf (or whatever)
[11:43] <diplo> yeah it's a issue with our software so it's a quick test on a customer site
[11:43] <diplo> Doesn't happen on any other site
[11:43] <diplo> Will try sysctl :) thanks
[11:47] <foobarry> need a new dishwasher, any recs? needs to be slim
[11:49] <zmoylan-pi> ...and run linux? :-P
[11:50] <diplo> OK to add to the question above, pid_max - anyone know how the max is calculated? I've got different values on different systems
[11:50] <diplo> Combination of proc / memory ?
[11:55] <zmoylan-pi> if i was going for an appliance like a dishwasher i'd be looking at which magazine survey ratings instead of single ancedotes.  just my 2c
[11:56] <diplo> +1 - I sold my dishwasher, prefer handwashing
[11:56] <diplo> Apart from dinner parties :P
[11:57] <zmoylan-pi> that's when you serve fish and let the cat lick everything clean before boiling it all... :-P
[12:01] <foobarry> weirdo
[12:02] <diplo> hah, my wife always asked why I hand washed, I think our dishwasher was rubbish tbh, but it got me away from her as well :)
[12:03] <foobarry> i do think dishwashing is a sign of a marriage under strain
[12:03] <diplo> Well we are divorced :P
[12:03] <foobarry> QED
[12:03] <diplo> But I actually don't mind doing it, my girlfriend uses a dishwasher and her plates / glasses never seem as clean as if you hand wash them
[12:30] <SuperMatt> If they aren't coming out as clean in the dishwasher, then you're over loading it, or not topping up the salt
[12:31] <diplo> I did suggest that to her :) but I decided not to pursue it
[12:31] <zmoylan-pi> then the dishwasher should be able to point that out
[12:31] <diplo> Much preffered solution zmoylan-pi
[12:31] <diplo> :P
[12:32] <diplo> Anyone got a redhat access portal login ?
[12:32] <diplo> https://access.redhat.com/solutions/874023
[12:32] <SuperMatt> The wife and I live alone, but we have made sure we have enough plates, etc, to last us a few days until the dish washer is full, and then we put it on
[12:32] <SuperMatt> The mother in law does about 3 loads a day. Don't know how
[12:32] <diplo> Oh my! I couldn't wait that long
[12:32] <zmoylan-pi> solution: paper plates :-)
[12:33] <diplo> I wash as I cook/complete then wash up as the kids finish
[12:33] <SuperMatt> I will rinse as I go along, and put things in to the dishwasher then
[12:34] <SuperMatt> but my wife is a "soaker"
[12:34] <SuperMatt> it always makes me shudder
[12:34] <SuperMatt> I don't mind something being left to soak, but if it has been left for more than half an hour, it's not going to make any more difference
[12:35] <diplo> I'm a soaker for 5 mins whilst I do something else, like my water red hot
[12:35] <diplo> God are we getting old!!!! :(
[12:36] <SuperMatt> I know, I have a wife and a mortage, both things I didn't have 2 years ago when I left my twenties behind
[12:37] <diplo> Well I am old then if you're in your twenties ( obviously not as old as popey though! )
[12:37] <diplo> :P
[12:37] <foobarry> SuperMatt: do rackspace offer managed windows servers?
[12:37] <foobarry> where they patch and look after SQL server dbs etc?
[12:40] <SuperMatt> I don't work for RS any more, but yes, they do
[12:40] <foobarry> i know :P
[12:40] <foobarry> any idea on pricing, or wasn't your area...
[12:40] <SuperMatt> wasn't my area at all
[12:40] <SuperMatt> but more expensive than linux
[12:40] <foobarry> sure
[12:41] <SuperMatt> I think you can get managed DBs from Rackspace too
[12:41] <foobarry> thanks
[12:41] <foobarry> that'll do
[12:41] <SuperMatt> and some may say that's preferable
[12:51] <diplo> Who do you guys use for dynamic dns ?
[13:09] <daftykins> no-ip here
[13:10] <daftykins> diplo: although the last domain i bought from namecheap.com allows dynamic update from a client utility, so that could work too
[13:16] <diplo> I've been thinking buying a domain specifically for it yeah, I guess if I can get dhclient to work with it that would do
[13:17] <diplo> Wonder if any of the other registrars allow that
[13:17] <diplo> no-ip wants you to renew monthly doesn't it.. I think that's who I am with now, keep forgetting to do it, quite happy to pay a small sum or may just script something myself
[13:19] <foobarry> dyndns is $40 pa
[13:19] <foobarry> sounds a lot
[13:20] <daftykins> they don't do a free account anymore, but no-ip do.
[13:20] <daftykins> diplo: just pay no-ip the $25 USD for a year then :>
[13:22] <diplo> Yeah, thought about it.. but for what I get/want I was thinking more like a tenner :D - Just reading up whether I can update 123-reg or gandi with an api :P
[13:22] <diplo> Oooh I can with digital ocean I think! ooh!
[13:22] <popey> diplo: THANKS! :D
[13:23] <daftykins> o0
[13:23] <diplo> heheh
[13:23] <diplo> Someone has beaten me to it daftykins - Shell script ahoy
[13:23] <daftykins> every time i've tried to use a dynamic DNS updater on an ubuntu server with repo packages, they've all been utterly useless
[13:24] <diplo> yes, which is why I wanted something else daftykins
[13:25] <diplo> I had an issue with afraid.org because of dhclient on the version of ubuntu I was on and my router didn't support it
[13:25] <daftykins> yeah i just wanted to share just how rubbish they are and see whether anyone else had encountered the same
[13:30] <daftykins> seems to be my experience of universe packages :P
[13:30] <daftykins> "oh neat i found an appropriate program... oh it doesn't work"
[13:33] <SuperMatt> I've just moved my DNS to digital ocean. I needed 20 zones, but they limit you to 10. Despite being a saturday morning, I sitll got an upgrade
[13:33] <SuperMatt> digital ocean have their heads screwed on
[13:34] <SuperMatt> The limit is only so they don't get people creating accounts and registering a million spammy domains
[13:39] <diplo> Ah right I see, I may move all my stuff over to, see how  Iget on with this dns :P
[14:09] <diplo> And success! The one I found was old api but fix0red it now \o/
[14:13] <diddledan> Bryan Lunduke "The Lunduke Hour: You put Linux on THAT?!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlBS66kd3JE (some swearing)
[14:16] <SuperMatt> that reminds me, is it the time of year for Lunduke's Why Linux Sucks talk?
[14:16] <daftykins> diddledan: i am confused, this hour seems to be 30 mins long
[14:16] <diddledan> yeah I spotted that, too
[15:39] <diddledan> Blessed are they who just can't even, for they shall be able to. https://twitter.com/JesusOfNaz316/status/824247461325639680
[15:44] <diplo> Now with SSL certificate - woohoo!
[15:46] <diddledan> \o/
[15:46] <diplo> Onlu took me an hour and 3/4 :D
[15:46] <m0nkey_> 9:50 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery .. *squeals*
[15:46] <diplo> Learning ssl was hard :P
[15:47] <diddledan> I still haven't learnt SSL - it's all binary gibberish that I can't decipher
[15:47] <m0nkey_> diddledan, that's because you don't have the key
[15:47] <diddledan> it's almost like they're talking in code
[15:47] <diddledan> m0nkey_: we'll lose you to the machine later today then? :-p
[15:48] <m0nkey_> yes, I am entering the matrix
[15:48] <m0nkey_> as soon as it's arrived and setup
[15:49] <diplo> Created a LE cert on my VPS and then copied it down, next thing to do is to automate the renewal process and then get it to sftp it to the correct directory and check perms on update
[16:13] <diplo> https://github.com/andy-partington/shell_scripts/ if anyone wants to use the DO dynamic thing
[16:13] <diplo> Going to tidy the code up eventually
[16:29] <diddledan> how you respond to twitter - two images, one when you first join, the other after a few years: https://twitter.com/furrygirl/status/824129821273976832
[16:30] <diddledan> daftykins: notice I've been trying to explain my links better the past couple of days? :-)
[16:40] <daftykins> diddledan: i'm so proud, it brings a tear to my eye!
[16:40] <m0nkey_> FEDEX!!
[16:40] <diddledan> \o/
[16:41] <daftykins> i'll have you know i never fed the ex
[16:41] <m0nkey_> MY VIVE!
[16:42] <diddledan> daftykins: is that why they're now "ex"?
[16:43] <daftykins> oh tux you went and did it eh :P
[16:43] <daftykins> you silly billy!
[16:44] <daftykins> diddledan: lies, there's no correlation!
[17:20] <m0nkey_> Would it be wrong of me to admit I'm squealing like a little bitch right now? :)
[17:21] <diddledan> no, the squealing is wrong, though
[17:21] <daftykins> glad you're enjoying it, but we'll see how long it lasts
[17:22] <m0nkey_> daftykins, not even plugged it in yet. it's got to get to room temperature
[17:22] <diddledan> how long until you knock yourself out by headbutting your desk?
[17:22] <daftykins> hehe
[17:22] <daftykins> i think he has his own padded room!
[18:15] <m0nkey_> OH MY DEAR GOD. THAT IS AWESOME
[18:18] <KrimZon> #
[18:18] <KrimZon> oops
[21:19] <diddledan> m0nkey_: did you lean on the pool-table yet?
[21:20] <daftykins> :D
[21:20] <diddledan> ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLhlHvIajpk
[21:21] <daftykins> might as well get a pint in and lean on the bar </Only Fools>
[21:29] <m0nkey_> diddledan, not yet
[21:29] <m0nkey_> been doing some zombie training and playing in the lab
[22:15] <danielthebague> Hi folks, whats the news or status for the BQ e4.5 ubuntu phone?
[22:45] <daftykins> danielthebague: wrong channel
[22:45] <daftykins> !phone
[22:45] <danielthebague> yeah already switched to touch channel
[22:45] <daftykins> good stuff
[22:45] <danielthebague> thanks
[22:46] <danielthebague> Just out of interest is anyone in the not so near future  going to purchase a ubuntu phone handset, hopefully this isn't a sore topic


[01:40] <RAOF> Success!
[02:16] <RAOF> Now to rebase into submittable form.
[09:58] <xnox> Saviq, alan_g: so neither qtmir-desktop nor qtubuntu-desktop is needed?
[09:58] <xnox> then in my mini supported-kiosk i will only have content-hub and libmiral-dev
[09:59] <Saviq> xnox, correct, qtmir was only used by unity8
[09:59] <xnox> yeah \o/
[10:00] <Saviq> we'll need to update content-hub to not use the interfaces qtmir exposed, though
[10:00] <xnox> sure
[10:00] <Saviq> not sure if that dep is expressed in debian/control, but the result will only be that you can't copy/paste... which you can't anyway unless you're using unity8
[10:00] <xnox> development goes on as needed.
[10:01] <alan_g> @libmiral-dev - surely miral-kiosk needs miral-examples
[10:03] <alan_g> Saviq: that always puzzled me - why cut & paste started working in miral (but I never investigated)
[10:04] <Saviq> alan_g, maybe content-hub was smart about running under unity8 (or not) - in which case things should continue working :)
[10:05]  * alan_g hopes
[10:06] <alan_g> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=sS7aPtrUuw4C&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=97+things+every+programmer+griffiths+magic&source=bl&ots=-hi1PW6dwN&sig=zikGKTPhISbGiovEuigGWVD647c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx--Ld2vvTAhVoLMAKHdM-BycQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=97%20things%20every%20programmer%20griffiths%20magic&f=false
[10:06] <alan_g> Oops! that's a long URL


[05:19] <emma> I have a VPN (private internet access) but I don't always use it.  But suddenly I cannot connect to any webpage UNLESS i am connected to the VPN.
[05:20] <emma> I think it might be some DNS setting but I'm not sure nor sure how to change it.
[12:19] <geodb27_> People : hi !
[12:42] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[13:35] <emma> I have a VPN (private internet access) but I don't always use it.  But suddenly I cannot connect to any webpage UNLESS i am connected to the VPN.
[13:35] <emma> I think it might be some DNS setting but I'm not sure nor sure how to change it.
[13:42] <diogenes_> emma, try private window
[13:44] <BluesKaj> emma, I use PIA and never encountered that...which browser?
[13:49] <BluesKaj> emma think the PIA app has a setting which makes it default at startup , maybe that's been enabled somehow
[14:02]  * BluesKaj doesn't use the PIA provied GUI , I just use the config  files and connect the vpn from the konsole
[14:02] <BluesKaj> provided
[14:06] <aurelia> ciao
[14:22] <emma> BluesKaj: firefox.
[14:23] <BluesKaj> emma, using The PIA GUI to connect or??
[14:23] <emma> yeah
[14:23] <emma> I think it is a DNS problem
[14:23] <BluesKaj> ok , look in the GUI to make sure it isn't setup to autostart on boot
[14:25] <emma> it is set to auto-connect on launch
[14:26] <emma> and start application at login
[14:26] <BluesKaj> ok, think that's the culprit , it's overriding your network-manager setting
[14:27] <BluesKaj> set the app to manual start
[14:29] <BluesKaj> you may need to run sudo systemctl enable network-manager then sudo systemctl  start network-manager
[14:29] <BluesKaj> and perhaps a reboot
[14:30] <emma> Yeah i set the PIA to manual start.  Then I used sudo service network-manager restart
[14:31] <emma> now PIA is not connected (but the PIA app is still running) and firefox cannot connect to any web pages.
[14:31] <emma> interestingly ssh is still working which is how I am chatting now.
[14:34] <emma> BluesKaj: you think it needs to reboot the machine?
[14:36] <BluesKaj> open system monitor in the Kmenu and in the search type pia, right click on pia and choose send signal, then choose terminate or kill , then try your browser again
[14:36] <BluesKaj>  if that doesn't work try a reboot
[14:36] <BluesKaj> emma,^
[14:37] <emma> ok
[14:38] <emma> hm, i don't have that right click option.
[14:38] <emma> to send a signal.
[14:38] <emma> Im using kubuntu tho
[14:39] <emma> it's just add to pannel, pin to task manager, that sort of thing.
[14:41] <emma> I'll be back when I can. I am going to try to reboot the machine @ BluesKaj
[14:42] <BluesKaj> use the process tab
[14:42] <emma> the process tab?
[14:43] <emma> BluesKaj: it's probably pia_nw ?
[14:43] <BluesKaj> yes system monitor has 2 tabs, load and process
[14:43] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: May I ask you the quality of your connection with PIA? I'm comparing vpn providers atm.
[14:44] <emma> oh didn't know i was using system monitor. Where do I find that?
[14:44] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: really though, I should ask that question to you in another channel.
[14:44] <emma> oh i see it there
[14:45] <BluesKaj> BionicMac, PIA is quite good dependin on the server , NYC , Florida, Mexico are all very good , avoid LA , it's throttled
[14:46] <BionicMac> Have you done a speed test?
[14:46] <BluesKaj> Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver , and Seattle ,Texas as well
[14:47] <emma> BluesKaj: i have killed pia_nw
[14:47] <emma> I restarted firefox and it still connects to no pages.
[14:47] <BluesKaj> yes, I lose about 5% on the download and none on the upload on the googlr speed test https://www.google.ca/search?q=speed+test&oq=speed+test&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.8513j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
[14:48] <emma> "We're having trouble finding that site"
[14:48] <emma> BluesKaj: could this be a DNS thing?
[14:48] <emma> somehow the DNS settings got corrupted?
[14:48] <emma> and it things the DNS are by proxy or something?
[14:48] <BluesKaj> emma, try sudo dhclient in the cli
[14:49] <emma> em@nova:~$ sudo dhclient
[14:49] <emma> RTNETLINK answers: File exists
[14:50] <BluesKaj> ok now try the browser again
[14:50] <BluesKaj> emma I have my DNS settings set to my providers DNS recommends in my router
[14:50] <emma> not working. cannot find google.
[14:51] <BluesKaj> the router should be the best location to set your DNS
[14:51] <BluesKaj> can you ping google.com
[14:51] <emma> i don't have access to the router and this was a problem in two different households with two different routers
[14:51] <emma> yeah one sec
[14:52] <emma> em@nova:~$ ping google.com
[14:52] <emma> ping: google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
[14:56] <BluesKaj> emma you could trty setting google DNS or your provider's DNS  in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf
[14:56] <emma> okay what is google's dns?
[14:56] <emma> <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[14:56] <BluesKaj> yes
[14:57] <BluesKaj> secondary is <IP_ADDRESS>
[14:57] <BionicMac> My VPN provider's App has a setting called "network_lock". If that is set to "yes" it will block your internet traffic for security. I do not use or have experince with PIA but it could be a setting like this. Or it may be a default. BluesKaj can surely assist with PIa specifics since he uses the provider.
[14:58] <emma> [Resolve]
[14:58] <emma> DNS=<IP_ADDRESS>
[14:58] <emma> #FallbackDNS=
[14:58] <emma> #Domains=
[14:58] <BionicMac> clarification: the app will block internet traffic IF you lose your vpn connection that it.
[14:59] <emma> I removed the comment #  and put it to DNS=<IP_ADDRESS>
[14:59] <emma> is there some way to refresh that conf?
[14:59] <BluesKaj> BionicMac, I haven't seen that setting in PIA, but i don't use the GUI
[14:59] <emma> or do i have to reboot?
[14:59] <emma> @ BionicMac yeah i remember seeing something like that in a older version of PIA  -- I don't see that now but I'll look again.
[14:59] <BluesKaj> emma, not sure, but reboot to make sure :-)
[14:59] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: Yep, ok cool. Yes my provider has a cli interface only. (except for the browser extension)
[15:00] <emma> Im going to reboot now. See you guys as soon as I can.
[15:00] <BluesKaj> ok emma
[15:04] <emma> BluesKaj: just restarted -- the problem still persists. I can use ssh so I know I am connected to the internet
[15:04] <emma> but firefox won't connect to any page.
[15:04] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: If you have done a speed test with PIA, what are the results?
[15:04] <emma> im sure if i would now turn on PIA it would connect.
[15:05] <emma> firefox gives the error "hmm. we are having trouble finding that site'
[15:05] <emma> that's why I think this is a DNS thing
[15:05] <emma> it's not saying you are offline
[15:05] <emma> it says cannot find the site
[15:06] <diogenes_> emma, you could try with dnsmasq
[15:06] <emma> should i see if chrome also cannot connect?
[15:06] <emma> diogenes_: how's that?
[15:06] <diogenes_> emma, first see this: systemctl status NetworkManager
[15:07] <emma> chrome also will not work. It says 'the site cannot be found'.
[15:08] <emma> diogenes_: says it is active and running
[15:08] <diogenes_> ok let's see
[15:09] <diogenes_> it's gonna be a bit long process if you have time
[15:09] <emma> when i was able to get online i googled "Firefox won't connnect unless I am using VPN" and I got some stuff but I can't go to google now since it can't find the site
[15:10] <diogenes_> run: cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:10] <diogenes_> share the link
[15:11] <emma> em@nova:~$ cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:11] <emma> nc: getaddrinfo for host "termbin.com" port 9999: Temporary failure in name resolution
[15:12] <emma> this is the same error i get when i try: ping google.com
[15:12] <emma> it comes back with 'temporary failure in name resolution'
[15:12] <emma> I believe this is all the same problem.
[15:12] <emma> could you google: kubuntu temporary failure in name resolution
[15:12] <emma> I think if that can be solved then it would slove this?
[15:13] <diogenes_> ok you can create a new channel and you can use that channel for pasting direct output
[15:13] <diogenes_> and give me the name of the channel
[15:13] <emma> ok
[15:14] <emma> diogenes_: #temp
[15:59] <emma> diogenes_: well now my wireless dongle will not connect
[16:00] <emma> Previously the problem was that my wifi adapter would connect to the router but firefox would not work. Now my wireless adapter does not initialize.
[16:02] <emma> diogenes_: I need to use a usb wireless adapter because the built in wireless card on this laptop is so weak.
[16:02] <diogenes_> ok
[16:02] <diogenes_> I am on #temp
[16:05] <emma> Now the usb wireless adapter gets to configinuring interface in ntework manater and gthan fails
[16:05] <diogenes_> emma, let's talk in #temp
[16:05] <emma> Now I cannot even type here in irssi because the built in wireless card is so weak that i am lagging very very badly
[16:06] <emma> that's why i needed the wusb wireless adpeter
[16:06] <diogenes_> try to remove the previous wireless connections and connect again
[16:06] <diogenes_> also try systemctl restart NetworkManager
[16:11] <emma> this is painfully broken
[16:11] <emma> i can't type anything here
[16:12] <diogenes_> why is your wifi so weak? take your laptop closer to the access point so we can chat
[16:13] <D0U91E> 4 more sleeps til 18.04 LTS
[16:14] <BluesKaj> D0U91E, I'm already there
[16:14] <D0U91E> nice BluesKaj with beta 2 right?
[16:16] <BluesKaj> dunno, i just keep upgrading :-)
[16:16] <D0U91E> same...
[16:16] <D0U91E> once I chatted with you I got on the 18.04 - I think beta1 or earlier... weeks now tho
[16:19] <D0U91E> my 16.04 was giving me issues and there were more issues running 15.10 so I just went with the latest I could get of 18.04
[16:20] <emma> ouch
[18:11] <user|76292> hi kubuntu 18.04   I am having an update issue that I can solve this problem
[19:03] <BionicMac> emma: Did you correct you vpn connection issue?
[19:03] <BionicMac> emma: Just curious.
[19:03] <emma> BionicMac: yes got it fixed thanks to BluesKaj
[19:04] <BionicMac> WHat was the problem? I can scroll back but maybe you can put it short and sweet .. =)
[19:05] <emma> BionicMac: i do not understand the problem but i can tell you the solution.  Maybe you can tell me the problem because to me the solution seems so random and magical.
[19:05] <BionicMac> ok shoot
[19:05] <BionicMac> or should I scroll...
[19:05] <emma> The problem was this:  I run the PIA VPN and all of a sudden Firefox (or any other browser) was unable to open any webpage UNLESS the VPN was turned on.
[19:05] <emma> Here was the solution:
[19:06] <emma> (1) Install ifupdown
[19:06] <BionicMac> I like magically random things. =)
[19:06] <emma> (2) Edit etc/resolv.conf to say nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:06] <emma> (it had previously said <IP_ADDRESS>)
[19:06] <emma> and that was it.
[19:09] <BionicMac> hmmm ..
[19:17] <emma> BionicMac: this isn't the way we fixed it but it seems very likely to be the same problem: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/forum/discussion/22079/can-no-longer-connect-to-internet-when-i-exit-pia-app-ubuntu-16-04
[19:17] <BionicMac> emma: I am curious about something: If you could run this and paste it somewhere? Are you still in #test ? ->> run this 'sudo systemd-resolve --status'
[19:18] <BionicMac> brb... give me about 5 minutes please.
[19:19] <emma> Yeah sure.
[19:19] <emma> BionicMac: you mean now while the vpn is turned off?
[19:19] <BionicMac> emma: more related discussio: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1624320n
[19:19] <BionicMac> aaaah ha
[19:19] <BionicMac> brb
[19:21] <BionicMac> emma: yes now please. then maybe you could run it after vpn is on and do some comparisons ... these are the important files [ /etc/resolv.conf ... and ... /lib/systemd/resolv.conf ** ( /lib/systemd/resolv.conf is static) ]
[19:22] <BionicMac> coffee is calling me.. brb
[19:23] <emma> BionicMac: here is what it looks like right now while the VPN is off: http://dpaste.com/0PPYV6W
[19:25] <BionicMac> emma: while it is off cat both of the resolv.conf files I just mentioned too. so 3 things in both states 1) cat /etc/resolv.conf ...2) cat /lib/systemd/resolv.conf ...3) 'sudo systemd-resolve --status' ... so all three tasks in each state please for comparison. without you having edited anything.
[19:26] <BionicMac> emma: I am curious about this because I an into dns issues setting vpn several times here. I do believe I am on the way to understanding "why". =)
[19:26] <BionicMac> s/I an/I ran/
[19:27] <emma> okay
[19:37] <marrow16180> kubuntu sucks
[19:40] <BluesKaj> good riddance :-)
[19:40] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: =)
[19:47] <BionicMac> emma: What do your two resolv.conf files look like right now while the vpn is off?
[19:49] <BionicMac> emma: plus, according to your paste you are getting dns from a lan ip <IP_ADDRESS> on a particular interface Link 6  ... while your global dns is set to google <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:50] <BionicMac> My global and per interface are both set to the same servers.
[19:53] <emma> BionicMac: this is with vpn off: http://dpaste.com/1TWA5YC
[19:55] <BionicMac> looks the same. and you are connecting properly with both setups?
[19:56] <BionicMac> I'm real curious to see both resolv.conf fils in each state also.
[19:56] <BionicMac> So you have edited /etc/resolv.conf yourself though.
[19:57] <BionicMac> cn you 'cat /etc/resolv.onf' and 'cat /lib/systemd/resolv.conf' in both states?
[20:00] <BluesKaj> BionicMac, they both using the same nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>  here
[20:02] <BionicMac> BluesKaj: ok . im just curious why tge hand edit is needed for emma though.
[20:02] <BionicMac> i under
[20:02] <BionicMac> the system shod take care of that ideally
[20:04] <BionicMac> sorry for thr mistype "i under" . switched to phone and my hands are big.
[20:21] <emma> BionicMac: well it's gone back to not working now
[20:22] <BionicMac> emma: ok, so did you checkout both resolv.conf files?
[20:22] <BionicMac> emma: before you edit them , while it is not resolving, cat both files and paste please.
[20:23] <emma> hey sorry i missed our chance for that.
[20:24] <BionicMac> emma: may as well look at 'sudo systemd-resolve --status' again also. If you don't mind pasting all of that it may help coming to a permanent solution other than editing the file every time.
[20:24] <emma> I already went to that resolv.conf and somehow it put itself back to <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:24] <emma> so i put it to <IP_ADDRESS> again
[20:24] <emma> and now it works again.
[20:24] <BionicMac> emma: systemd-resolve is doing it. /etc/resolv.conf is dynamic.
[20:24] <emma> sorry i have to go now but i would love to find out why this happens later.
[20:25] <BionicMac> ok thanks. =)
[20:26] <Sakkn> hey guys
[22:35] <emma> BionicMac: I think /etc/resolv.conf probably reverts back when I unplug my USB wiress adapter. (Which I have to use).  As in, when I plug it in, NetworkManager sets it to <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:36] <DiamondDish> s


[04:56] <antarus> mmm, is there a date yet for when T devel starts?
[05:21] <infinity> antarus: Shortly after S releases.
[05:21] <infinity> antarus: I might try to slip a new glibc in before we open the archive, but we should be opening it pretty quickly after release.
[05:42] <antarus> so like late october
[05:42] <antarus> we need to get off our asses soon then ;p
[08:06] <jn_> hi to all
[08:06] <jn_> :D
[08:13] <xnox> stgraber: i was suspecting webkit. When the module is imported / ui is generated, it tries to load up a web-page in webkit webview... which should be fine to do as any user. Thanks for investigating.
[08:14] <xnox> stgraber: i wonder if I should move the loading the T&C page, lazy when we actually get to the U1 page.
[08:15] <xnox> stgraber: since, I also suspect it doesn't play nicely, if one is offline, since loading that webpage just stalls then.


[05:09] <LaPulgaAtomica_> Buenas noches a todos
[15:04] <drubin> '
[15:59] <mvo> hello
[16:00] <ev> hiya
[16:02] <robbiew> o/
[16:02] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:04] <robbiew> barry: ?
[16:04] <barry> gtimelog 0.4.0, repackaged, ppa, uploaded; python bugs: 9807 (pyconfig.h and Makefile), 9877 (sysconfig); udd work: wiki gardening, stakeholders meeting, bzr-debuntu plugin; general bug triaging; emacs 23.2 ffe testing; lpbug 434431 (cj icon); review bug 637955 merge proposal. (done)
[16:04] <robbiew> thnx
[16:05] <robbiew> cjwatson: ?
[16:06] <cjwatson> hi, sorry, give me a second - having network difficulties
[16:06] <robbiew> cjwatson: np...we'll come back to you
[16:06] <robbiew> doko?
[16:07] <doko> * more handling of component mismatches, file MIR's, bug reports, ... people really should not be al
[16:07] <doko> lowed to pre-promote, the kubuntu guys seem to be very eager about this
[16:07] <doko> * llvm-2.8 updates
[16:07] <doko> * OOo update, armel builds now, but not in the lucid backport
[16:07] <doko> * some more ~20 armel package fix
[16:07] <doko> * file bug report about armel build failures, get preprocessed source, forward to Linaro
[16:07] <doko> * get the armel-cross-toolchain into maverick, helping hrw
[16:07] <doko> * some python3 uploads
[16:07] <doko> done
[16:08] <robbiew> doko: it appears that the fix for the fullscreen presentation in OOo broke other things...did that get officially released, or was that just in a test ppa
[16:08] <doko> -proposed
[16:09] <Riddell> pre-promotion is done because the MIR team is lacking in members and we were told to do so
[16:09] <robbiew> ah..okay
[16:09] <cjwatson> ready when you are
[16:09] <doko> --
[16:10] <doko> Riddell: it doesn't help to subscribe the MIR team three months after filing the bug ...
[16:10] <cjwatson> shall I go now?
[16:10] <robbiew> cjwatson: yes...please
[16:10] <cjwatson> done: fixed regression from ntfs-3g update; wubi fixups for grub, hopefully fixing upgrades; dmraid fixes in grub; almost done with /lib/init/rw work in sysvinit; pushed Windows interop fix in grub out for testing; working on some grub 1.99 release blockers, e.g. re-enabling grub-extras
[16:10] <cjwatson> todo: consolekit VT activation fixes; finish various bits of WIP; bug catchup treadmill, but not much more on my list is critical so I have some space
[16:10] <cjwatson> --
[16:10] <cjwatson> (probably some more archive catchup as well to help doko out)
[16:11] <robbiew> cjwatson: thnx
[16:11] <robbiew> ev?
[16:12] <ev> * fixing installer bugs - please let me know if it's failing for you in any serious way.
[16:12] <ev> * Trying to get ubiquity reporting 0 errors in pyflakes, pychecker or pylint so that we can run it as a build step
[16:12] <ev> * figuring out how to best set up and utilize this installer testing under Hudson stuff in anticipation for the hardware arriving tomorrow (can partimage/ntfsclone the copy of windows back over for resize tests, or cheat and mkfs.ntfs)
[16:12] <ev> * working on setting up fakechroot to create an environment for testing individual ubiquity/d-i component interactions
[16:12] <ev> (done)
[16:12] <Riddell> there shouldn't be any outstanding ~ubuntu-archive bugs, I did the last ones this morning
[16:12] <barry> ev: "Trying to get ubiquity reporting 0 errors in pyflakes, pychecker or
[16:12] <barry>      pylint so that we can run it as a build step" -- good luck :)
[16:12] <ev> barry: tell me about it
[16:13] <doko> Riddell: maybe we should discuss this, but I think it's wrong to promote things when the security team has concerns which are not addressed
[16:13] <doko> srtp again ...
[16:13] <ev> pyflakes was mostly easy
[16:13] <barry> ev: let me guess: pylint?
[16:14] <robbiew> ev: thnx
[16:14] <Riddell> doko: as I say I've been told to pre-promote them this cycle for lack of an active MIR team
[16:14] <robbiew> mvo: ?
[16:14] <ev> barry: yeah, verbose does not begin to describe pylint.  I think we have *some* hope with pychecker, but I worry about changing the code for the sake of making pychecker happy.
[16:14] <mvo> misc bugfixing; misc i18n fixes; software-center: add screenshots-by-version support, fix where-is-it for kde/purchased apps, ui improvements to the buy-something, update-manager fixes, debug upgrade failure with xserver-xorg-input
[16:14] <cjwatson> yeah, I noticed some cases in our previous work where changes to make pychecker happy actually actively broke stuff
[16:14] <mvo> (done)
[16:15] <barry> ev: we can take this off-line, but the trick is going to be basically suppressing tons of warnings either in the code or in your pylint.rc file.  so much fun :/
[16:15] <ev> cjwatson: indeed, and I'm actively trying to avoid that :)
[16:15] <ev> though wildcard imports was the source of much of the feedback, and those were easy enough to fix
[16:16] <barry> ev: suppress, suppress, suppress ;)
[16:16] <ev> barry: indeed :/
[16:16] <ev> hahaha
[16:16] <robbiew> psurbhi: around?
[16:16] <psurbhi> yeah
[16:16] <psurbhi> 1) worked on mdadm bugs (550131, 541058) related to map files and auto assembly. Have created a bzr branch with patches tested, kept at https://code.launchpad.net/~csurbhi/+junk/mdadm.fixes. Still looking at the path which gets "" assignment (earlier unknown). Also looking in neil browns git repo for fixes to other mdadm bugs. Some bugs do seem related to older mdadm versions.
[16:16] <psurbhi> 2) looking at how lvm manages the array when the name changes due to auto assembly. Also investigating why autoassembly is failing for some users. Need to check if fixing the map file bugs helps anyone in this.
[16:16] <psurbhi> 3) created a small mdadm document that says what features are currently supported and what to not expect to work correctly in <IP_ADDRESS>, what patches are in queue (sponsorship requested). Shall upload this soon (after completion)
[16:17] <psurbhi> done
[16:17] <psurbhi> ..
[16:17] <robbiew> thnx
[16:18] <robbiew> [TOPIC] 10.10 Bugs
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  10.10 Bugs
[16:18] <cjwatson> can somebody volunteer to look at psurbhi's mdadm fixes branch and see what of it should be sponsored for maverick?
[16:18] <cjwatson> please
[16:19] <psurbhi> also a patch attached to bug 617725
[16:19] <psurbhi> could go in
[16:19]  * robbiew can voluntell if needed
[16:19] <robbiew> ;)
[16:19] <psurbhi> cjwatson, robbiew, thanks a lot
[16:20] <robbiew> mvo: can you help with this?
[16:21] <mvo> I can, its not ideal, but I can give it a try
[16:21] <mvo> software-center-buy-something is in the final iteration, today is the day when we want to lift the restriction
[16:21] <mvo> so that purchase is open for anyone
[16:21] <psurbhi> mvo, thanks! please let me know if you want something from me..
[16:21] <mvo> sure
[16:22] <robbiew> I don't think it needs to be done today, does it?
[16:23] <robbiew> psurbhi: ^
[16:25]  * robbiew must be talking to himself in here
[16:25] <mvo> :)
[16:26] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
[16:26] <psurbhi> robbiew, no
[16:26] <robbiew> psurbhi: thnx
[16:26] <barry> i'm seeing lots of crashes in gnome-keyring-daemon.  it's an assertion that apport cannot report.  not seeing any obvious dups in the tracker but there are lots of open crashes there.  has anybody else seen this?  i may have to spend some time investigating. :/
[16:27] <robbiew> hmm...I haven't seen that
[16:27] <barry> i'm on amd64
[16:28] <barry> anyway.  if not, i'll look into it
[16:28] <robbiew> barry: I have an amd64 running 64bit, no problem with that...if I run into it, will let you know
[16:29]  * mvo hasn't seen this either
[16:29] <cjwatson> good news: wubi upgrades no longer make the system unbootable
[16:29] <barry> robbiew, mvo k, thx
[16:29] <robbiew> heh...\o/
[16:29] <cjwatson> (haven't completed a full upgrade yet, but I upgraded just grub-common/grub-pc/lupin-support and it (a) still boots (b) uses a new grub to boot
[16:29] <cjwatson> )
[16:29] <robbiew> cjwatson: I suppose I should move on the releases.ubuntu.com/wubi hosting then
[16:30] <barry> cjwatson: i have a win7 vm i can do wubi tests on if you need
[16:31] <cjwatson> barry: I have win7 on real hardware
[16:31] <cjwatson> more testing doesn't hurt of course
[16:31] <barry> cjwatson: cool.  i have an msdn account (thx to psf) and can bring up vms for any windows os you need
[16:31] <cjwatson> I'll remember that, may be useful
[16:31] <barry> cjwatson: np.  i'll take a look at wubi
[16:31] <robbiew> barry: cool...I think marjo and QA would be interested in that too
[16:32] <barry> robbiew: +1 will let marjo know
[16:32]  * psurbhi shall shoot an email to friends to try out wubi :)
[16:32] <doko> cjwatson: what needs to be done regarding archive cleanup before the release? I'm a bit scared about the demotions
[16:32] <cjwatson> doko: I can work on the demotions; really just getting *-mismatches and NBS clean
[16:33] <doko> ok, currently writing the two remaining MIRs
[16:34] <doko> let me know how I can help with NBS
[16:35] <robbiew> okey dokey
[16:36] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
[16:36] <robbiew> thx all
[16:36] <mvo> thanks!
[16:36] <barry> robbiew: thanks!
[18:28] <inkvizitor68sl> hi all
[18:28] <inkvizitor68sl> whom i can contact to ask about pack of CDs for Ubuntu Install Fest ?
[18:33] <akgraner> inkvizitor68sl, see PM
[19:57] <highvoltage> Hi! I hav ea conference call with a client when the Edubuntu meeting starts, so I'll be at least a few minutes late, feel free to start without me :)
[20:15]  * stgraber waves
[20:15] <stgraber> anyone around ?
[20:17] <stgraber> ok, I guess we can wait for highvoltage then ;)
[20:18] <stgraber> though an edubuntu meeting is relatively pointless if that's only mgariepy, highvoltage and I considering that we are all 2m away in real life ;)
[20:19] <czajkowski> heh
[20:20] <stgraber> hey czajkowski
[20:20] <stgraber> how's it going ?
[20:21] <czajkowski> not bad , keeping busy. yourself
[20:22] <stgraber> good, quite busy recently. Looking forward to UDS to catch up on a few Ubuntu things I haven't quite had the time to work on recently (and seeing everyone again)
[20:22] <czajkowski> yes looking forward to it alright
[20:25]  * highvoltage morphs back into existence
[20:26] <highvoltage> jcastro asked if we want to do an educationaly OW session
[20:26] <highvoltage> I declined because I didn't find the last two sessions that I hosted particularly exiting
[20:26] <highvoltage> anyone else want to do it perhaps or have any ideas?
[20:27] <stgraber> well, it was great to have it on the schedule just to show that we are alive, though I tend to agree that they weren't particularly crowded
[20:29] <vmlintu> maybe I should attend to find out what I could do..
[20:30] <highvoltage> I started working on installation instructions for 10.10, it's viewable already, although not linked, if anyone wants to provide feedback it's over here: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/10.10/installation-guide
[20:30] <highvoltage> vmlintu: :)
[20:30] <highvoltage> vmlintu: I think what we need in Edubuntu is a wiki page with to-do list items that we maintain on a weekly bases
[20:30] <highvoltage> *basis
[20:31] <highvoltage> that way, if someone pops in and says "hey! I want to help but I don't know what to help with" then there's something we can point them to.
[20:32] <ScottK> highvoltage: Feel free to copy https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo if it's useful.
[20:32] <highvoltage> ScottK: that's very nice, thanks!
[20:32] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[20:32] <highvoltage> kubuntu always seems to be 2 steps ahead everyone else :)
[20:33] <highvoltage> (brb)
[20:36]  * mhall119 is here
[20:36] <stgraber> hey mhall119
[20:36] <highvoltage> hey mhall119
[20:37] <vmlintu> sometimes following what is actually happening on the development front is quite hard from here, I have to say
[20:37] <highvoltage> I don't think I have anything else for this week, nothing I can think of now at least :)
[20:37] <mhall119> highvoltage: couldn't we use LP's bug tracker for that?
[20:37] <mhall119> or blueprints
[20:37] <mhall119> the to-do list I mean
[20:37] <highvoltage> vmlintu: *nod* I'd like to hear more about that if you have any comments, or even suggestions on how we can improve
[20:38] <stgraber> bugs might do the trick for some stuff, blueprint is usually too much paperwork (unless it's an actual feature that needs to be developed and for which that kind of tracking is useful)
[20:38] <highvoltage> vmlintu: I'm going to blog about recent changes today, but it has all been said in previous irc meetings though
[20:39] <mhall119> I'll be honest, I haven't been keeping up with edubuntu
[20:39] <mhall119> I've had a hard time keeping up with anything, work, school, life...
[20:39] <mhall119> I'm hoping UDS-N will help me focus on the next cycle
[20:40] <highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, I'd suggest that things that need to be done have a bug assosiated to it, I think it would be nice though to have a wiki page that summarises them
[20:41] <highvoltage> mhall119: I think it's normal for people to get out of sync regularly, ubuntu projects move *fast* and a lot of things happen
[20:41] <highvoltage> I don't think there's anyone in the project that actually keeps up with *everything* that happens in more or less real time
[20:43] <highvoltage> mhall119: I don't know if that's what you were talking about :)
[20:43] <highvoltage> I know you've been somewhat busy
[20:44] <highvoltage> it's nice that this time round, we'll pretty much all be at UDS, so we'll be able to get some of the stuff like the desktop-profiles stuff done for qimo at least :)
[20:44] <stgraber> yep, and having the ltsp hackfest just after will also ensure having some time (including mgariepy's) for anything were we need some kind of teamwork ;)
[20:46] <highvoltage> anything else? I think we can move back to #edubuntu :)
[20:46] <stgraber> Nothing to add here for that meeting
[20:47] <highvoltage> ok... /me > #edubuntu
[20:49] <mhall119> highvoltage: I'm definitely looking forward to develing an actual roadmap for Qimo
[22:14] <oso_> Buenas tardes
[22:58] <james_w> go team win
[22:59] <thumper> hi james_w
[22:59] <james_w> hi thumper
[22:59] <james_w> how are you?
[22:59] <thumper> frustrated, you?
[22:59] <james_w> a bit of that too, been hitting fragile code all day
[23:00]  * thumper nods
[23:00] <james_w> what's the source of you frustration?
[23:00] <thumper> the private xmlrpc server
[23:00] <thumper> timing out weirdly
[23:00] <thumper> and I have no idea why
[23:00] <james_w> hmm, fun
[23:00] <barry> hi guys, ready to meet?
[23:00] <james_w> private being for code imports?
[23:00] <james_w> hi barry
[23:00] <lifeless> being internal to the dc
[23:00] <thumper> james_w: yes, and the smart server (and mailman)
[23:00] <lifeless> code imports is one client
[23:01] <thumper> I'd love to blame mailman, but not sure if I can
[23:01] <thumper> hi barry
[23:01] <thumper> we miss you
[23:01] <thumper> come back
[23:01] <barry> is rockstar and poolie here?
[23:01] <barry> thumper: aw, thanks man!  i miss you guys too
[23:02] <thumper> barry: rockstar isn't coming
[23:02] <thumper> barry: I'm here for code
[23:02] <barry> thumper: awesome
[23:02] <barry> and there's poolie!
[23:02] <poolie> hi barry!
[23:02] <barry> hi!
[23:02] <poolie> hi all
[23:02] <thumper> hey
[23:02] <barry> let's start, i can smell dinner cooking :)
[23:02] <barry> #startmeeting
[23:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:02. The chair is barry.
[23:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[23:03] <barry> welcome to the kickoff meeting for udd stakeholders.  all are welcome to join
[23:03] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[23:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[23:03] <barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20100922
[23:04] <poolie> good agenda
[23:04] <james_w> indeed
[23:04] <barry> poolie's making a mumble room for us
[23:05] <poolie> backchannel in Ubuntu/Ubuntu Distributed Development on mumble
[23:05] <poolie> technology! :)
[23:06] <barry> techmology (sic)
[23:06] <poolie> no additions to the agenda? next topic?
[23:06] <thumper> as long as it is only a backchannel
[23:06] <thumper> as NZ doesn't like mumble
[23:06] <poolie> remember to use the mute button or push-to-talk
[23:06] <barry> [TOPIC] * Planning for UDS-N
[23:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Planning for UDS-N
[23:06] <barry>    * How many sessions do we need? (e.g. an educational one for new users, a dev one for planning Natty work)
[23:06] <barry>
[23:06] <lifeless> whats AOB?
[23:07] <poolie> "any other business"
[23:07] <barry> lifeless: any other business
[23:07] <james_w> we got some good feedback last time from a session dedicated to that
[23:07] <poolie> i think one planning session would be good,
[23:07] <barry> so, we definitely want to do a developers session.  does it make sense to do an evangelizing/educational session too?
[23:07] <poolie> maybe one feedback session
[23:07] <barry> poolie: would the feedback session be the developers session?
[23:07] <poolie> Charline from DX (or something like that?) will be at UDS and i'm trying to arrange for her to do some user studies of people actually doing UDD
[23:08] <thumper> I think an educational session is needed
[23:08] <poolie> or using bzr or launchpad
[23:08] <james_w> If we have specific things to discuss in more detail then a UDS session is appropriate. I would think that general planning might be obsoleted by these meetings?
[23:08] <poolie> that's probably not a session as such
[23:08] <barry> poolie: +1 for charline doing that study
[23:08] <james_w> yeah, and talking to developers outside sessions is always valuable
[23:08] <barry> james_w: definitely
[23:08] <poolie> mootbot: action: poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
[23:09] <poolie> we could also line up some attendees to participate
[23:09] <barry> [ACTION] poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
[23:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to confirm charline to do user studies
[23:10] <poolie> feedback sessions can be good, but not everybody feels comfortable speaking about their experience in a big room
[23:10] <poolie> or they may simply not remember what they want to say
[23:10] <poolie> can we do this better?
[23:10] <poolie> is there another example of a feedback-type session that's worked really well?
[23:11] <james_w> I think the need for work planning sessions may become obvious from our discussions today and over the next month
[23:11] <poolie> mm
[23:11] <poolie> if it's mostly work planning between the people already active in udd, it may not strictly need to be at a session
[23:11] <barry> is it enough just to make sure folks know how to contact the mlist or stakeholders?  e.g. pvt feedback which we can turn into bugs, blueprints, etc?
[23:11] <james_w> yeah
[23:11] <poolie> otoh having it on the schedule allows interested people to turn up and propose changes to the agenda
[23:11] <poolie> or just find out about it
[23:12] <james_w> barry: I think that's a good start, and talking to people to encourage them and get feedback in an individual setting will help
[23:12] <slangasek> poolie: include in the session a clearly identified "if you have other feedback, contact/click [...]"?  That way you grab any feedback from folks who think of what to say afterwards or are shy
[23:12] <james_w> but I think feedback session can be useful to draw some people out of the woodwork
[23:12] <barry> poolie: yep.  it provides an outlet for people who may be interested, or have dabbled, but don't focus on it that closely
[23:13] <poolie> ok
[23:13] <james_w> 1 year ago it was basically mathiaz listing problems he had, as most people in the room hadn't used it in anger, but 6 months ago there was broader participation
[23:13] <slangasek> and then have that in the gobby doc on the projector, etc., and announced > 5min before end of session
[23:13] <poolie> right, it does seem to be slowly building up
[23:13] <barry> +1
[23:13] <poolie> i don't know if we'll get around to it but it would be kind of cool to have a poster in the foyer
[23:13] <poolie> as another way to prompty people to talk to us
[23:14] <barry> that's a good idea.  i can talk to robbiew about that
[23:14] <poolie> he's going to draw the poster? :-) or just about whether he's ok with it
[23:14] <barry> whether it's okay, where to put it, etc
[23:14] <thumper> I think having a gobby feedback file lowers the barrier for people to comment/complain
[23:14] <poolie> thanks
[23:14] <thumper> there will be people that will write but not talk
[23:15] <poolie> right, we can try to cover all channels
[23:15] <barry> [ACTION] talk to robbiew about getting a poster to prompt people to contact us re: udd feedback
[23:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  talk to robbiew about getting a poster to prompt people to contact us re: udd feedback
[23:15] <barry> thumper: cool
[23:15] <slangasek> thumper: frustratingly, sometimes these are people who are remote and have given us no other way to contact them for follow-up questions ;)
[23:16] <poolie> so we want an educational session, a feedback session, a planning session
[23:16] <poolie> anything else?
[23:16] <barry> so, one feedback session for sure.  what about a separate educational session?  get the stakeholders to put together a short demonstration about how all the pieces fit together?
[23:16] <james_w> I think that would be a good ide
[23:16] <poolie> i think a short demo would be good
[23:16] <poolie> that may actually draw other good feedback
[23:16] <poolie> "i tried that but ....."
[23:16] <james_w> for one thing it forces us to look at the on-ramp
[23:16] <thumper> slangasek: I think all you can do to address that is to indicate clearly that to best get things changed we need contact details :)
[23:16] <thumper> slangasek: although people will still leave that out
[23:17] <slangasek> ack
[23:17] <thumper> barry: +1 on an educational on-ramp type session
[23:17] <barry> excellent. and a planning session if we think it's worth it by the time we get there
[23:17] <james_w> +1
[23:17] <slangasek> +1
[23:17] <barry>    * Who will register and lead the sessions?
[23:17] <barry>    * Which track should it be in?
[23:17] <barry>
[23:18] <barry> i'll register the sessions
[23:18] <poolie> [action] poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
[23:18] <poolie> (you get what i mean)
[23:18] <barry> i do, but mootbot doesn't :)
[23:18] <barry> [ACTION] poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
[23:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to organize a foyer poster (assuming it will be
[23:18] <UndiFineD> what will be the IRC channels for UDS ?
[23:18] <poolie> snort
[23:18] <james_w> UndiFineD: #ubuntu-uds
[23:18] <poolie> are there going to be as many tracks as LaHulpe? that was pretty enormous
[23:19] <james_w> we are moving to something slightly different this time I think
[23:19] <barry> UndiFineD: there will be session channels based on the track that the session is in.  it'll all be up on the wiki by that time
[23:19] <slangasek> so one thing happening this time is that UDS is being organized by "theme" rather than "track"
[23:19] <james_w> though I don't know if many people understand what that will be
[23:19] <UndiFineD> ah that's good to know :)
[23:19] <slangasek> (but using all the existing summit code :)
[23:19] <poolie> istr someone talking of there already being a draft schedule somewhere?
[23:19] <slangasek> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/
[23:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/
[23:20] <slangasek> mind the falling tracebacks, though
[23:20] <james_w> in a debug method no less
[23:20] <poolie> heh
[23:20] <barry> wfm :)
[23:20] <poolie> so i guess they would be "Development Process?"
[23:20] <slangasek> anyway, that shows the current 'themes' that have been proposed
[23:20] <slangasek> poolie: I think so
[23:21] <james_w> http://uds.ubuntu.com/tracks/
[23:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://uds.ubuntu.com/tracks/
[23:21] <lifeless> win 38
[23:21] <poolie> perhaps something under "Application Developers" about just general non-packaging use of bzr/lp, tutorial and/or feedback
[23:21] <barry> yep, makes the most sense given what's there
[23:21] <james_w> with a different list
[23:21] <barry> yay
[23:21] <james_w> poolie: I think that would be appreciated
[23:21] <james_w> so +1 on development process if it is one of the tracks
[23:22] <poolie> barry would you be so kind as to register that too while you're at it; me as lead
[23:22] <james_w> otherwise some sort of "other, misc" I guess
[23:22] <barry> james_w: agreed.  poolie you mean, register a session on general bzr/lp usage?
[23:22] <slangasek> ah, so which set of themes is authoritative :/
[23:22] <poolie> barry, yes, in the "application developers" stream
[23:23] <barry> [ACTION] barry to register general bzr/lp session in "app devs" theme
[23:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to register general bzr/lp session in "app devs" theme
[23:24] <poolie> thanks
[23:24] <barry> i guess these things will get settled in the next couple of weeks.  we can look again at our next meeting for track/registration specifics (if there's no obvious candidates)
[23:24] <poolie> jameinel and myself will be there from bzr, plus about one person from each lp subteam
[23:24] <barry> i think we know what udd sessions we want though, shall we move on?
[23:24] <poolie> agree
[23:25] <barry> poolie: awesome
[23:25] <james_w> yes
[23:25] <barry> [TOPIC]  * What are the top three things we need to add to make UDD more attractive to established devs?
[23:25] <MootBot> New Topic:   * What are the top three things we need to add to make UDD more attractive to established devs?
[23:25] <barry>
[23:25] <barry> in bazaar; in lp?
[23:25] <james_w> that's Ubuntu developers?
[23:25] <barry> james_w: yes i think so
[23:26] <barry> although i have a dream that everyone is an ubuntu developer :)
[23:26] <james_w> :-)
[23:26] <james_w> I guess not everyone is established though
[23:26] <lifeless> review process
[23:26] <james_w> I wonder if there are any Ubuntu devs watching that might like to weigh in as well
[23:27] <slangasek> git round-trip support?
[23:27] <lifeless> just to say, I think having the review stuff - queues, notification, landing stories improved would probably help a lot
[23:27] <lifeless> but thats wearing my motu hat.
[23:27] <barry> lifeless: what specifically needs improving?
[23:27] <slangasek> dunno, maybe that's not actually all that relevant to UDD / established Ubuntu devs, but it's something I hear a lot :/
[23:27] <lifeless> barry: spend a day in REVU
[23:28] <james_w> lifeless: could you join the dots there please?
[23:28] <poolie> lifeless: #ubuntu-revu?
[23:28] <lifeless> poolie: its a webapp
[23:28] <lifeless> james_w: ok.
[23:28] <james_w> slangasek: I believe it is on the way
[23:28] <lifeless> so, motu gets a lot of new packages -many more than main -
[23:28] <poolie> you mean, look at REVU for a smoother review workflow than is offered by lp?
[23:28] <lifeless> and there is a complex review process needed to vet the package.
[23:29] <lifeless> Its a (slight) superset of the stuff needed when an upstream release is made of an existing package.
[23:29] <lifeless> and the LP review process for package branches doesn't handle either scenario (new, upstream-release) well.
[23:29] <poolie> there's another related question which is: how do we best communicate what we are doing, and what we think needs doing next
[23:29] <lifeless> poolie: yes, look at REVU, its /much/ more comprehensive - showing the diff is only a small fraction.
[23:29] <poolie> this meeting, and the list, perhaps are enough
[23:30] <poolie> thumper: ^^ :)
[23:30] <slangasek> lifeless: would that encompass, say, having branch perms change with the state of the freeze and letting archive admins / release team / SRU team land changes by merging?
[23:30] <barry> poolie: though we do want to reach out to folks not on the udd list
[23:30] <lifeless> slangasek: its in the broad topic I'm talking about, yes.
[23:30] <thumper> poolie: yes, we know we don't handle package review very well
[23:31] <lifeless> basically we have a generic nice tool (Merge proposals) but we need to have a generic nice tool *for packages* too.
[23:31] <barry> lifeless: in your happy world, would lp eventually replace revu?
[23:31] <poolie> barry, that's true
[23:31] <lifeless> and there are lots of angles; I haven't done a pareto analysis to say which bit should be done first.
[23:31] <thumper> lifeless: there is work in progress to split the code-review from the proposal-to-merge
[23:31] <lifeless> barry: hell yes.
[23:31] <slangasek> lifeless: that's *my* killer feature for UDD... but I don't think it's possible to achieve unless we're already flipping the switch for building packages from branches
[23:31] <thumper> with the intention to make the review part usable elsewhere
[23:31] <lifeless> thumper: that work is unrelated to me.
[23:31] <barry> lifeless: that's what i wanted to hear! :)
[23:31] <thumper> like package reviews
[23:31] <thumper> is that unrelated?
[23:31] <ajmitch> lifeless: I'd be happy to kill off REVU, too :)
[23:32] <lifeless> thumper: but they are still branch reviews
[23:32] <lifeless> thumper: so I don't think splitting it helps at all
[23:32] <slangasek> lifeless: since otherwise you make the freeze reviewer do all the uploads & package signing besides
[23:32] <thumper> hmm..
[23:32] <lifeless> thumper: I'm not saying 'keep it unsplit' I'm saying 'its on a different dimension'
[23:32] <lifeless> slangasek: exactly.
[23:32]  * thumper nods
[23:32] <james_w> slangasek: so that would be a vote for building from branches?
[23:33] <james_w> (as a prerequisite for your vote for the landing of changes as a release/SRU team member)
[23:33] <slangasek> james_w: yesyesyes
[23:33] <slangasek> :)
[23:33] <james_w> ok
[23:33] <lifeless> I find a good way to join dots in situations like this is to take someone - say slangasek - and watch what they do to do a review during freeze; at the first non-well-integrated bit, hit the stop button, go away, fix it.
[23:33] <lifeless> :)
[23:33] <poolie> so one lateral approach to this would be to see what is necessary to make revu present the same ui/workflow on top of branches
[23:33] <lifeless> (given that we have an overall vision already)
[23:33] <slangasek> actually, thinking on it, -proposed might be the very place to trial build-from-branch
[23:33] <poolie> i don't know if that's at all feasible
[23:33] <slangasek> once we're ready for such a trial :)
[23:33] <james_w> poolie: should be feasible yes
[23:34] <barry> who's responsible for revu?
[23:34] <james_w> poolie: except that it has some tie-ins to source packages, and so you have to deal with arbitrary code execution, or take as input a branch and a source package
[23:35] <slangasek> barry: community members
[23:35] <ajmitch> barry: I'm one of the revu admins
[23:35] <slangasek> it's revu.ubuntuwire.com
[23:35] <ajmitch> rainct has hacked on it quite a bit, branch is on lp:revu
[23:35] <barry> ajmitch: hi.  i wonder if, as a revu admin, it would make sense to pull you in as a udd stakeholder?
[23:35] <ajmitch> barry: sure
[23:36] <slangasek> so another thing that's been on my list for a while that only just now surfaced in my brain... tools for local partial mirrors of bzr package branches
[23:36] <james_w> so far I have seen 1) better review of package branches (revu, new upstream etc) 2) build-from-branch for PRIMARY
[23:36] <barry> ajmitch: that would be cool.  i'll add your name to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Meetings
[23:36] <slangasek> I have a local source mirror of Ubuntu main; I can't easily do the same for the branches AFAIK
[23:36] <poolie> right, i can see how that would help a lot
[23:36] <james_w> 3) interacting with git
[23:37] <james_w> there must be more than that :-)
[23:37]  * ajmitch had written up some stuff about branch mirrors somewhere, will take a look for it
[23:37] <barry> james_w: well, there are some lower level pet peeves of mine :)
[23:37] <poolie> any particular bugs that bite?
[23:38] <poolie> we'd heard previously that resolving some conflicts were difficult
[23:38] <poolie> speed/memory usage on huge trees
[23:38] <poolie> oh, speed of accessing launchpad?
[23:38] <james_w> v3 quilt packages IMO
[23:38] <barry> i'm thinking about the whole looms/packaging branches story
[23:38] <barry> and loom threads <--> patch system
[23:39] <poolie> that would be good
[23:39] <poolie> to me that's the likely next bit of feature work, together with colocated branches
[23:39] <poolie> obviously there are a few entangled bits there
[23:39] <barry> i suspect nested branches will be part of that solution too
[23:39] <barry> poolie: yeah
[23:39] <lifeless> nested-loomed branches.
[23:40] <lifeless> head-asplode
[23:40] <lifeless> barry: I'm not convinced - at all - that you want debian/ to be a nested branch.
[23:40] <barry> lifeless: the real goal there is i think better integration with debian, so that we can get our changes to them
[23:40] <lifeless> barry: I think that that would be a mistake.
[23:40] <james_w> and just this second we have https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/libvirt/maverick-201009222219/+merge/36394 to illustrate my point
[23:41] <poolie> how about issues of mergeability between packaging branches and upstream
[23:41] <barry> james_w: lovely
[23:41] <poolie> or reliability of imports?
[23:41] <barry> poolie: yes, to both, definitely
[23:41] <poolie> i guess generally i'd like to get a sense for where our users want the more_fixes:more_features slider to be set
[23:42] <james_w> both ends at once
[23:42] <barry> lifeless: i've been struggling with the right model and try different things each time.  i'm not positive nested branches are right either, but the current situation isn't ideal.  but i'm very open to suggestions.  i just want the work flow to be much smother
[23:42] <poolie> yeah i thought so :)
[23:42] <barry> er, smoother (freudian slip)
[23:42]  * ajmitch thinks reliability of imports is a big one for adoption of udd - people give up if the branch is several revisions behind
[23:43] <slangasek> how are we on archive coverage in UDD (i.e., import failures)?  My general impression is that trying to use UDD and running into a package that's not imported / not up-to-date kills any enthusiasm they might've had
[23:43] <barry> yep, and i'm perfectly happy prioritizing bugs/features so we can knock out the biggest roadblocks first
[23:43] <slangasek> ah, ajmitch is on the same wavelength :)
[23:43] <slangasek> so in that respect I think the slider needs to be heavily towards 'bugs' right now
[23:44] <slangasek> er, 'fixes'; no more bugs please ;)
[23:44] <poolie> slangasek, barry: james may correct me but i believe the import success rate is above 95% but below 100%
[23:44] <james_w> we have 725 packages out of date right now
[23:44] <poolie> so if people access many packages, they may hit that discouraging situation of finding one out of date
[23:44] <barry> poolie: that roughly jives with my own experience of finding missing or out of date source branches
[23:45] <james_w> unfortunately they aren't uniformly distributed across the set of all packages
[23:45] <slangasek> IME the chance of a package being out of date is much, much higher if it's a package that's frequently touched in Ubuntu
[23:45] <poolie> james_w: out of about 20k?
[23:45] <poolie> right
[23:45] <james_w> poolie: ~17k
[23:45] <slangasek> ... and particularly if it's a package I've touched because I tend to use 'bzr co' instead of 'bzr branch' :/
[23:45] <barry> james_w: is it at all correlated to vcs's or upstream hosting provider?
[23:46] <poolie> we did make a graph <https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/UddSourcePackagesWithoutBranches/> (canonical-only for technical reasons, sorry)
[23:46] <poolie> currently reading 0
[23:46] <james_w> the latest failure appears to be because slangasek just pushed a bzr-git branch to lp:ubuntu/armel-cross-toolchain-base
[23:46] <poolie> but this is the number of packages with no import branch at all
[23:46] <slangasek> james_w: oh, does that break things?  Neato!
[23:46] <poolie> which is not quite the same as them being up to date
[23:46] <slangasek> james_w: I have two more of those coming ;)
[23:46] <poolie> i could make a better graph that somehow runs the hottest-100 tool
[23:46] <james_w> barry: not really. More correlated to the size of package/number of uploads
[23:46] <poolie> or indeed perhaps just one that parses that number out of the package-import output
[23:47]  * barry nods
[23:47] <poolie> james_w would that be reasonable to use? the number on the home page that's currently 725?
[23:47] <james_w> slangasek: it's not broken as much as asking for a human to check because from it's point of view it just went from one history to another entirely
[23:48] <james_w> poolie: two concerns, the first being asking the tool for the count isn't going to be entirely accurate, the second being that parsing the webpage probably isn't the cleanest way of doing it
[23:48] <slangasek> james_w: ok, so that's the intended effect then :)
[23:48] <james_w> I have no problem with us graphing that number, and could probably even have the tool do it itself
[23:49] <barry> so, just to bring this topic around, i think we need a well-defined way to identify the problems and publicize our priority for fixing them.  certainly the wiki can be the latter if we can keep it gardened
[23:49] <poolie> james_w: perhaps i'll graph that as an intermediate step then arrange for our hottest100 verifier (which isn't limited to the hottest100) to be graphed
[23:49] <barry> i guess lp:udd for bugs for getting issues into the system
[23:49] <james_w> poolie: fwiw there's already a script on jubany that will output relevant numbers in cricket format
[23:49] <poolie> [ACTION] poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
[23:50] <poolie> is that going to work?
[23:50] <barry> and i will capture what's been identified above
[23:50] <poolie> or it has to be Mr Barry?
[23:50] <barry> [ACTION] poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
[23:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to get a better graph of package import failures
[23:50] <james_w> barry: yes, udd for any bugs related to this at all
[23:50] <poolie> ok
[23:50] <poolie> so there's some useful feedback there
[23:50] <james_w> I'm happy to move them to more appropriate places as needed
[23:50] <poolie> some of these things are more like tasks; this doesn't totally fit lp's "bug in a package" model
[23:50] <poolie> but we can do it
[23:50] <barry> poolie: mootbot is not your friend :)
[23:51] <poolie> and people seem to generally agree with a slant towards removing bugs that block what's available now
[23:51] <barry> sounds good
[23:51] <poolie> and on performance it sounds like, more would be nice but it's not generally the most pressing issue?
[23:52]  * ajmitch would love to see LP having mirrors of branches somewhere other than the UK, but that's another topic :)
[23:52] <james_w> I would appreciate someone thinking through with me making the import service more reliable
[23:52] <lifeless> move it to the main LP infrastructure
[23:53] <lifeless> there's -lots- of machinery for reliability there.
[23:53] <poolie> heh
[23:53] <barry> ajmitch: connectivity to my corner of the USA doesn't seem too bad :)
[23:53] <lifeless> including scheduling, reporting and alterting
[23:53] <UndiFineD> ajmitch, what is the size of LP ?
[23:53] <slangasek> poolie: well, "need partial mirrors" was a proxy for "performance sucks when I have to download the full branch fresh from launchpad to work on an arbitrary package" :-)
[23:53] <ajmitch> barry: right, it's something I've ranted about before but haven't written up how I think it could possibly work
[23:53] <poolie> btw jam has a branch up that when landed will cut a bit over 2s overhead off opening an ssh connection to lp
[23:53] <barry> lifeless: do you know someone on lp who can make that happen? <wink>
[23:53] <thumper> UndiFineD: size of what? code base, number of branches, size of branches?
[23:53] <james_w> lifeless: it has scheduling and reporting
[23:54] <thumper> james_w: who reads the reports?
[23:54] <UndiFineD> thumper, any info that is relevant to mirroring
[23:54] <poolie> i'd like to break down the inertia that p-i is just james's thing
[23:54] <barry> poolie: i *always* use a shared repo
[23:54] <james_w> thumper: anyone who uses the webpage, I don't know if anyone else looks at them regularly
[23:54] <james_w> https://dev.launchpad.net/Code/PackageImporter
[23:54] <poolie> i think some other people have sent you patches?
[23:54] <poolie> but not very much
[23:55] <james_w> jam has sent a few
[23:56] <barry> shall we move on to the next topic?
[23:56] <lifeless> james_w: its up to you; I think you'd be less of a special case if it ran as part of th eoveral LP stack is all
[23:56] <lifeless> james_w: I'm not suggesting making it use the DB or anything.
[23:56] <james_w> lifeless: see the wiki page above
[23:56] <poolie> barry, yes, let's move on
[23:56] <thumper> barry: you have 3 minutes :)
[23:56] <james_w> plus, it would be nice to work out why LP now likes to do this every so often: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/remote-tty.html
[23:57] <lifeless> james_w: yes yes ;)
[23:57] <lifeless> oh that 401 is interesting.
[23:57] <barry> thumper: we might go a little over.  i'm going to skip the critical bugs item because i think we've mined that in this topic (without identifying specific bugs)
[23:57] <barry> [TOPIC]  * How do we promote and evangelize UDD to the wider Ubuntu developer community?
[23:57] <barry>
[23:57] <MootBot> New Topic:   * How do we promote and evangelize UDD to the wider Ubuntu developer community?
[23:57] <barry> certainly a uds session is a start
[23:58] <barry> i've blogged about it, so that reaches two other people
[23:58] <ajmitch> consistent, clear documentation on how to do common tasks (what's there is pretty good)
[23:59] <james_w> the documentation could certainly be improved. I consider what's there to be a bare minimum
[23:59] <barry> ajmitch: i think they are pretty good howtos now (maybe could use a bit of gardening).
[23:59] <james_w> I think some pictures would help


[12:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70511 in malone "Use packaging links on +distrotask" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70511
[01:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70518 in launchpad "Notify team members when their membership is going to expire" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70518
[01:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70519 in launchpad "Need to allow team members to renew their own membership once it gets close to the membership's expiration date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70519
[01:45] <malcc> We should make Ubugtu also report on bugs fixed
[01:46] <malcc> Otherwise some days this channel is just depressing
[01:47] <jamesh> we could just disable filing of new bugs
[01:48] <jamesh> say that launchpad doesn't use malone for bug tracking anymore
[01:51] <malcc> We could use bugzilla
[01:51] <stub> We could go home
[01:52] <malcc> Hmm, and I set out to make the channel less depressing. Didn't really get what I was gaming for there...
[02:21] <danilos> malcc: you need to use smileys :) you know, be cheerful :D
[02:33] <carlos> stub: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filecXfcFI.html
[02:33] <carlos> stub: could you review it?
[02:34] <carlos> hmm, I guess it would be [trivial] ... but anyway...
[02:38] <lifeless> jamesh: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70524
[02:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70524 in launchpad "product release finder not finding releases for bzrtools 0.12" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[02:45] <jamesh> lifeless: could you add what the tarball pattern is in the bug, so I can test things?
[02:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70524 in launchpad "product release finder not finding releases for bzrtools 0.12" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70524
[02:57] <stub> carlos: r=stub
[02:57] <carlos> stub: hmm I sent it already as [trivial]  :-P
[02:57] <stub> Fine. It is
[02:57] <carlos> but thanks
[02:58] <carlos> btw
[02:58] <carlos> stub: at https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2594 there is a warning that says:
[02:58] <carlos> DeprecationWarning: Passing dbuser parameter to initZopeless will soon be
[02:58] <carlos> mandatory
[02:58] <carlos> stub: that was more than one year ago...
[02:58] <carlos> what's "soon" in that context?   IIRC it is only displayed on the source edit page
[03:06] <jamesh> which I don't have access to
[03:07] <lifeless> jamesh: oh grah.
[03:08] <lifeless> http://panoramicfeedback.com/opensource/bzrtools-0.12*.tar.gz
[03:08] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70526
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70526 in launchpad "noone can see release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:12] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70527
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70527 in launchpad "noone can set release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:12] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70528
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70528 in launchpad "launchpad admins cannot administer specs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:12] <jamesh> lifeless: okay.  The reason it isn't finding any releases is that http://panoramicfeedback.com/opensource/ doesn't link to the tarballs
[03:13] <jamesh> when walking HTTP sites, it is expecting to find HTML index pages for the directories so it knows what is there
[03:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70526 in launchpad "noone can see release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70526
[03:15] <lifeless> jamesh: my main point is the lack of user-debuggability;
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70527 in launchpad "noone can set release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70527
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70528 in launchpad "launchpad admins cannot administer specs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70528
[05:31] <jdong> is there any way around the launchpad unique contact e-mail limit?
[05:31] <jdong> I'm trying to register a backports testing team that uses the backports mailing list, which the main backports team also uses
[05:34] <jamesh> jdong: nope.  There is a uniqueness constraint on email addresses
[05:35] <jamesh> jdong: if you think this case should be handled, file a bug
[06:45] <jamesh> stub: if we need a machine to test the release-management stuff on, why not use demo.lp.net?
[06:49] <stub> jamesh: Makes sense
[08:10] <Fujitsu> I'm looking at bug #41457, and it has a corresponding bug in the upstream BTS (on berlios.de). The berliOS BTS hasn't been registered in LP yet, so I can't link the upstream task. Can I request that the BTS be registered in LP, or add a link to the bug there somehow? Or should I just add a comment giving the link?
[08:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41457 in soundconverter "soundconverter silently fails without appropriate plugin" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41457
[08:23] <jamesh> Fujitsu: we don't have support for that type of bug tracker
[08:23] <jamesh> the SF tracker support doesn't look like it'd handle the older software berlios is using
[08:24] <Fujitsu> I thought it looked like an old SF-like thing, yes...
[08:26] <Fujitsu> It would be somewhat better if you could specify a URL to link the upstream task to, and it would stick the link there if it didn't already know about the tracker. Otherwise, people looking at the bug have to look for the comment mentioning the bug URL if they want to check the upstream status.
[08:34] <SteveA> morning
[10:45] <PecisDarbs> hi crowd, question to Ubuntu packagers - how frequently happens translations updates packages release and how to initialise one, if there is need to fix faulty translations
[10:58] <spiv> PecisDarbs: #ubuntu-devel is probably the best place to ask.
[10:59] <PecisDarbs> spiv: already asked, thanks :)
[10:59] <spiv> PecisDarbs: this channel is for discussion of developing and using the https://launchpad.net/ site, rather than how Ubuntu packaging is done.
[10:59] <PecisDarbs> yep
[10:59] <PecisDarbs> I see
[10:59] <spiv> PecisDarbs: it's possible carlos or jordi on this channel know the answer, when they're around.
[10:59] <spiv> Otherwise, I think pitti may be the person to ask.
[11:00] <jordi> hello
[11:00] <jordi> PecisDarbs: the oficial policy is that langpacks are updated first monday of the month
[11:00] <jordi> ie, today
[11:01] <PecisDarbs> cool
[11:01] <spiv> SteveA, jamesh, salgado, flacoste: review team meeting time.
[11:01] <jordi> but, I think the people who need to make it happen are in MountainView for the Ubuntu conference
[11:01] <jamesh> okay
[11:01] <jordi> I hope they'll be able to ship it today, but it's a special day I guess
[11:02] <spiv> lifeless and BjornT have registered apologies, because they're at UDS.
[11:02] <PecisDarbs> I see
[11:02] <spiv> == Review team meeting agenda ==
[11:02] <spiv>  * Roll call
[11:02] <spiv>  * Queue status.
[11:03] <spiv>  * Whitespace cleanup (is this old?)
[11:03] <PecisDarbs> guys, one more question - I and my translation team have some issues with Rosetta about merging of translations, is there any efforts underway to fix that?
[11:03] <spiv> SteveA: ping?
[11:03] <spiv> salgado doesn't seem to be here.
[11:03] <jamesh> the whitespace cleanup item is old.
[11:03] <spiv> flacoste isn't either... I'm not sure that anyone's told him about the meeting though!
[11:04] <spiv> jamesh: Looks like just you and me then, and a short agenda...
[11:04] <spiv> * Queue status
[11:04] <jamesh> queue is huge
[11:04] <spiv> I haven't done the arithmetic, but "massive" would seem to describe it.
[11:05] <jamesh> although a number of the branches are incremental (david/cscvs/pyrex-part-*, bjorn/launchpad/malone-release-management-*, etc)
[11:05] <spiv> jamesh: at glance, you're doing better than most reviewers :)
[11:05] <spiv> Yeah, that's true.
[11:05] <spiv> Lots of small branches is actually a good thing compared to the alternative.
[11:05] <jamesh> by the way, what do you think of the formatting changes on the pending-reviews page?
[11:06] <spiv> Regarding how the conflict status is shown?
[11:06] <jamesh> yeah, and putting the conflicts list at the top of the diff
[11:06] <spiv> (are there other changes I haven't noticed?)
[11:06] <jamesh> and sorting by state age, rather than absolute age
[11:07] <spiv> They're all good, I think.
[11:07] <spiv> Bjorn resolved the conflict in his branch before I started reviewing it, so I didn't notice that conflicts are reported at the top of diffs :)
[11:08] <jamesh> I wonder if people will be more likely to fix the conflicts early now that they're highlighted?
[11:09] <spiv> Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
[11:10] <jamesh> okay.  Anything else?
[11:10] <spiv> As far as queue status goes, one of the old ones is in my queue (Bjorn's malone-guided-filebug), and I'm doing that atm, so it should be done soon.
[11:11] <spiv> jamesh: you have a could from ddaa that a little bit older than they ought to be, but they're short so probably you won't take long to catch up.
[11:11] <spiv> And no-one else is here to account for their sins...
[11:11] <spiv> So I guess that's it.
[11:11] <spiv> Any last minute business?
[11:11] <jamesh> yeah.  I'm doing the svn-revision-cleanup one at the moment
[11:11] <spiv> Excellent.
[11:12] <spiv> Oh, one other thing:
[11:12] <spiv> Presumably there's no meeting next week, because of allhands :)
[11:12] <spiv> Ok, I think that's it.
[11:12] <spiv> 2, 1, 0, DONE.
[11:12] <jamesh> that's a lot quicker than using multiple lines :)
[11:12] <spiv> jamesh: thanks for stopping me from having to talk to myself :)
[11:13] <jamesh> oh.  One thing we should probably be checking for is help text for new templates
[11:14] <spiv> Ah, good point.
[11:14] <jamesh> given we want help text for all templates, we don't want to make the problem worse when adding templates
[11:14] <spiv> Would you mind mailing the review list about that?
[11:14] <jamesh> sure.
[11:14] <spiv> (+1 from me, fwiw)
[11:36] <SteveA> spiv: hi
[11:37] <SteveA> spiv: so, I think we need to reconsider the time of the meetings, seeing as (when people aren't at a conference) we have more folks in western timezones
[11:42] <SteveA> thanks for sending the note about help text in new page templates, jamesh.  I sent it on to the launchpad list.
[02:30] <malcc> How do I unsubscribe somebody from a spec?
[02:33] <cprov> malcc: ouch, I don't think it's possible, like bugs ...
[02:33] <cprov> malcc: let me try, anyway
[02:33] <malcc> cprov: I got a request this morning from Daniel, who we're spamming now we're working on some old specs
[02:34] <cprov> malcc: uhm ,I see, looks like we need a DBA request
[02:35] <cprov> malcc: well, in the spec-land I think we can re-assign stuff
[02:36] <cprov> malcc: it would help, I'm not sure about subscriptions
[02:37] <malcc> cprov: Thanks. If a DBA request is needed, I can make it in person later on :)
[02:38] <cprov> malcc: yup, very convinient for you ;)
[02:38] <cprov> convenient, too
[02:51] <cprov> malcc: I've added a comment in DirtyPockets spec, if you have time, tell me what you think ?
[02:52] <cprov> malcc: it's about the domain name conflict, pocket is used to describe (dr.name, pocket) tuple, which is better described by "suite"
[02:53] <cprov> malcc: just out of curiosity, is kiko already with you or is he still in BR (I know, I should know it)
[02:53] <malcc> cprov: I didn't see kiko yet, is he coming?
[02:54] <cprov> malcc: dunno
[02:58] <malcc> Ok, time for a swim before breakfast. See you later launchpadders!
[02:59] <cprov> malcc: see you
[04:43] <ddaa> what are the guidelines for what to put in the help text of a page in launchpad?
[04:55] <sabdfl> SteveA: greetings
[04:55] <sabdfl> am unable to see brilliant.lp.n?
[04:56] <SteveA> sabdfl: hi
[04:56] <SteveA> me neither.  I'll take a look.
[05:00] <newz2000> I got an oops in staging
[05:00] <Znarl> newz2000 : Yep, I am looking into that.
[05:00] <newz2000> ok, thanks. Just getting ready to update the mirrors list.
[05:02] <SteveA> sabdfl: the brilliant company website isn't working either
[05:02] <SteveA> sabdfl: so, I expect a problem between their office and the internet
[05:05] <kiko> morning morning
[05:05] <kiko> hey SteveA?
[05:07] <kiko> hello hello
[05:08] <SteveA> kiko: hi
[05:20] <ddaa> where is the launchpad-dependencies package for edgy?
[06:04] <lifeless> morning
[06:07] <lifeless> matsubara: ping
[06:07] <matsubara> hi lifeless
[06:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70613 in launchpad "While creating a new project, you should set up bug tracker" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70613
[06:11] <lifeless> jamesh: on todays schedule, check out 'new developers' and 'code review' - total collision :(.
[06:11] <lifeless> matsubara: did you get my email about OOPS mails ?
[06:12] <matsubara> lifeless: yes, I'll sort that out today.
[06:12] <lifeless> matsubara: thanks!
[06:14] <kiko> hey there
[06:14] <kiko> salgado, stub: ping?
[06:14] <salgado> kiko, pong
[06:15] <kiko> salgado, hey there, how's it going?
[06:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70615 in malone "bug report doesn't show the milestone" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70615
[06:15] <kiko> salgado, when is a good time for us to have a morning meeting with people at UDS?
[06:17] <malcc> If you need all of us at once, 8:30am - 9:00am local would be about the only time
[06:17] <malcc> The rest of the day, some or all of us will be in BOFs
[06:18] <kiko> malcc, I was looking for some 15-20 minutes just to catch up and see how the last day went about
[06:18] <kiko> malcc, but I don't want to have you to start even earlier
[06:19] <malcc> Today's schedule is here if you want to hunt for another time everyone you need is around: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/2006-11-06/
[06:19] <kiko> malcc, is the 9-10am block taken up in full?
[06:20] <malcc> kiko: Yes, it's usually pretty packed, micro-presentations one after another about what's going on
[06:22] <lifeless> and they are about whats on, not a good time to lose focus
[06:26] <lifeless> :)
[06:30] <kiko> malcc, can you see if you can block a morning slot for a meeting?
[06:31] <carlos> morning
[06:32] <kiko> hey carlos
[06:32] <malcc> kiko: I don't see a slot today, morning or otherwise, where all the launchpadders at MTV are free
[06:33] <kiko> boring
[06:33] <malcc> The scheduler works pretty hard to ensure everyone is busy, so blame jamesh and his leet skillz
[06:35] <kiko> yeah yeah.
[06:36] <kiko> maybe I can delegate the meeting to somebody there.
[06:37] <carlos> kiko: at 4AM?
[06:37] <kiko> ah ah ah
[06:42] <SteveA_> does it need to be an "all lauchpad hands at once" meeting?
[06:42] <SteveA_> I'm sure there's a time when the rosetta folks + stuart are free
[06:43] <SteveA_> and another time when maybe malc + salgado + bjorn are free
[06:43] <kiko> SteveA_, I'd rather not have to be blocked on two sets of people, but perhaps somebody at UDS can hold the meeting and relay to us.
[06:44] <LarstiQ> kiko: this is being blocked qua knowing what is going on, not on a lack for something to do, right?
[06:45] <kiko> LarstiQ, uhhh right
[06:45] <LarstiQ> darn :)
[06:45] <LarstiQ> otherwise I'd see an opening to ask how that svn/rosetta copyright assignment thing ended
[06:46] <kiko> malcc, if you see stub can you ask him to pingme?
[06:46] <carlos> spiv: hi, around?
[06:47] <carlos> kiko: his battery is dead right now
[06:47] <carlos> well, his *laptop* battery is dead
[06:47] <kiko> carlos, mmmm. can he call me?
[06:48] <carlos> I think he was looking for a power plug
[06:49] <carlos> yeah, he found one, I guess he will be online soon
[06:49] <kiko> thanks
[06:50] <carlos> np
[06:52] <kiko> BjornT, hey!
[06:52] <kiko> BjornT, any clue why bug 69942 has no comments?
[06:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69942 in launchpad "spam" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69942
[06:52] <kiko> ah.
[06:52] <kiko> :)
[06:52] <kiko> somebody big-hammered it.
[06:53] <BjornT> yeah, seems like it.
[06:53] <SteveA> we should have a big-hammer process that involves checking that the object's page still works
[06:53] <SteveA> after the hammer has been hammered
[06:53] <kiko> I'll ask stuart to insert a bogus bugmessage there
[06:53] <kiko> via email
[06:54] <kiko> BjornT, do you know if it was stub or lifeless that did the delete there?
[06:56] <BjornT> kiko: no, i don't know who did the delete
[06:57] <kiko> BjornT, okay, emailed anyway.
[07:15] <stub> kiko: pong
[07:15] <kiko> stub!
[07:15] <kiko> good to hear from you
[07:15] <kiko> thanks for the POFileTranslator fixes, I merged the branch yesterday
[07:16] <kiko> stub, also thanks for fixing up those indices and vacuum
[07:16] <kiko> I have some branches to land to use those now
[07:35] <kiko> stub, ping?
[07:36] <stub> kiko: pong
[07:36] <stub> That db patch just went out to staging if you want to see if it works
[07:36] <kiko> cool
[07:58] <lifeless> matsubara: I was marking bugs with code in the as security for content-privacy. is there a better way to ddo it ?
[08:03] <matsubara> lifeless: if you report using the email interface you can use the command "private" and it'll report is as a private bug but not security related. Using the web ui you don't have that option.
[08:03] <lifeless> matsubara: I'm using the web ui for those
[08:04] <lifeless> I can swtich for them to the email interface
[08:04] <lifeless> I'm also jus texplaining why I marked them as I did
[08:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70628 in malone "Allow searching for a bug contact's bugs" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70628
[08:09] <mdke_> does anyone have a procmail expression for filtering LP bugmail? Mine doesn't seem to work
[08:09] <LarstiQ> mdke_: yes
[08:10] <mdke_> LarstiQ: cool. mine is "* ^Reply-To:*bugs.launchpad.net
[08:10] <mdke_> any idea what's wrong with it?
[08:10] <LarstiQ> mdke_: * ^X-Launchpad-Bug: product=\/[^;] +
[08:10] <LarstiQ> is what I have (thanks to uws)
[08:11] <mdke_> LarstiQ: does that work for distro bugs too?
[08:11] <LarstiQ> mdke_: it works for bzr bugs, I haven't dealt with distros I'm afraid
[08:11] <LarstiQ> mdke_: I'd be interested to hear about that though
[08:12] <kiko> mdke_, just change product to distro=
[08:12] <mdke_> I'd be happy with something which filters everything with X-Launchpad-Bug
[08:12] <matsubara> lifeless: I don't mind marking them as not security related. I seldom need to do that.
[08:13] <mdke_> kiko: alright, I'll try doing two... is there something which will filter everything with that header?
[08:13] <lifeless> matsubara: ok, cool. they stay private though ?
[08:13] <LarstiQ> mdke_: the rest of the procmail rule then puts it into .bugs.$MATCH.$YEAR.$MONTH/ and .bugs/
[08:13] <kiko> mdke_, I don't know what you mean.
[08:14] <LarstiQ> kiko: is there one header to rule them all?
[08:14] <mdke_> kiko: I mean, any email with the X-Launchpad-Bug header would go into the same folder
[08:14] <kiko> * ^X-Launchpad-Bug.*
[08:14] <kiko> that catches all of them
[08:14] <mdke_> I'll use that, thanks
[08:15] <mdke_> for the record, any idea what was wrong with mine?
[08:15] <LarstiQ> there is also the X-Generated-By: Launchpad
[08:15] <kiko> mdke_, yes.
[08:15] <kiko> mdke_, it should have been .* not *. it's a regexp.
[08:15] <LarstiQ> mdke_: missing dot?
[08:15] <matsubara> lifeless: yes, I umark the security flag but I leave the private flag set.
[08:15] <mdke_> kiko: doh. Thanks
[08:46] <matsubara> can someone send me the log from the last LP meeting?
[08:46] <SteveA> matsubara: they are in the channel logs
[08:47] <SteveA> URL as a tinyurl in the title of this channel
[08:48] <matsubara> SteveA: I tried that already. Apparently the bot wasn't logged in at the time.
[08:53] <newz2000> the other day I checked a person in launchpad to make sure they had a gpg key and an e-mail address registered (they did). Today I look and their e-mail address and gpg key don't show...
[08:54] <newz2000> I see that he had two identities that were merged, is it possible to find out what the other identity is so I can find his contact info?
[08:55] <salgado> newz2000, that's sort of weird
[08:55] <newz2000> yeah, thats kind of what I thought
[08:55] <newz2000> https://launchpad.net/people/jamesbunnell
[08:55] <kiko> IIRC I merged him
[08:55] <salgado> you shouldn't be able to see the one that was merged from, and the remaining one should have everything that was in the merged one
[08:56] <kiko> newz2000, that guy has 4 deactivated gpg keys.
[08:56] <kiko> newz2000, and his email is kept private.
[08:56] <salgado> newz2000, looks like he opted not to show his email address
[08:57] <newz2000> ok, at least I'm not going insane then
[08:57] <newz2000> I was starting to think I was seeing things.
[09:10] <jordi> wow, this is new
[09:10] <jordi> "Integrity error"
[09:13] <salgado> jordi, is that when creating new accounts?
[09:13] <SteveA> matsubara: I have logs
[09:14] <matsubara> SteveA: can you mail them to me?
[09:15] <SteveA> matsubara: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevea/lpmeeting-2006-11-02.log
[09:16] <matsubara> SteveA: thanks!
[09:43] <kiko> carlos, jordi: https://staging.launchpad.net/people/carlos/+translations
[09:43] <jordi> salgado: creating a potemplatename
[09:43] <jordi> hey carlos
[09:43] <kiko> https://staging.launchpad.net/people/jordi/+translations
[09:44] <jordi> kiko: these people aren't going to reply to the email even
[09:44] <jordi> :/
[09:45] <kiko> jordi, such is life.
[09:45] <jordi> hmm, pretty cool
[09:49] <joejaxx> kiko: hello
[09:49] <kiko> hey joejaxx
[09:49] <carlos> kiko: cool
[09:50] <carlos> kiko: may I suggest to link to the pomsgset directly instead of the pofile? O:-)
[09:50] <carlos> kiko: btw, GNU Translators is twice in my list of translation teams
[09:50] <carlos> same as Ubuntu Translators
[10:04] <kiko> jamesh, you know about the formatter based on bug 929? wanna do it for a dvd of choice? :-)
[10:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
[10:33] <joejaxx> kiko: i was wondering should i wait to create a team/product
[10:33] <kiko> joejaxx, I'll probably do that for you today, getting over the hump of immediate tasks
[10:34] <joejaxx> kiko: oh ok
[10:34] <joejaxx> kiko: are you at uds?
[10:34] <kiko> joejaxx, no, not this time.
[10:34] <joejaxx> oh ok
[10:38] <kiko> lifeless, are you at UDS?
[10:53] <SteveA> BjornT: pin
[10:53] <SteveA> BjornT: ping
[10:57] <kiko> ...bong...
[10:57] <carlos> kiko: yes, he is
[10:58] <kiko> cool.
[11:02] <mhb> carlos: hi... are you here?
[11:04] <mhb> carlos: just to let you know: I'm trying to download a .po file from Rosetta to my email and it doesn't work for a few days now ... it's blocking my work, so I wondered if you could do something with it
[11:06] <carlos> mhb: hi
[11:06] <carlos> mhb: we fixed that yesterday
[11:06] <carlos> didn't you get the confirmation email?
[11:07] <mhb> carlos: for the downloads I did few days ago: no
[11:07] <carlos> mhb: could you try it again
[11:07] <mhb> carlos: I tried to do one 10 minutes ago or so and it hasn't arrived yet
[11:07] <mdke_> carlos: any ideas about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/ubuntu-docs/+translations
[11:08] <lifeless> kiko: yes
[11:08] <kiko> thanks
[11:08] <kiko> just wanted to know.
[11:08] <mhb> carlos: good, it seems it arrived
[11:08] <mhb> carlos: thanks
[11:08] <lifeless> kiko: is there anything you need me to dod for you ?
[11:09] <mdke_> carlos: ah, seen your comment on the bug report. No worries
[11:09] <kiko> lifeless, no, but you'll get some UDS email shortly
[11:09] <lifeless> kiko: okies
[11:09] <kiko> lifeless, it's good news, no worries.
[11:11] <mhb> carlos: you should know that ... do suggestions get in the downloaded .po file (as fuzzy, perhaps) ?
[12:12] <jordi> carlos: there's a request to upload a file to rosetta
[12:12] <jordi> carlos: how do we do this nowdays?
[12:15] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[12:15] <SteveA> BjornT: ping
[12:15] <jordi> good night folks


[19:07] <MadsRH> #ubuntu-classroom
[19:08] <MadsRH> ups... sorry :-[
[23:32] <tretle> cimi
[23:32] <Cimi> ?
[23:35] <tretle> any chance you could update the murrine cream theme to use the shiki window border
[23:44] <Cimi> shiki?
[23:47] <tretle> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717
[23:48] <tretle> murrine cream would look even nicer if it had the menu bar blend with the border when using shiki window border
[23:48] <Cimi> i don't like the dark menubar
[23:48] <Cimi> i don't like dust too
[23:49] <_MMA_> Yeah.