[11:50] <nysosym> hi there
[11:50] <nysosym> kwwii: congrats for KDE 4.0 :)
[12:11] <kwwii> nysosym: thanks, I had some help though
[12:11] <nysosym> sure, i know :)
[12:12] <nysosym> i also like the new color palette for hardy :)
[12:12] <kwwii> cool
[12:12] <andreasn> kwwii: congrats on the release!
[12:13] <kwwii> andreasn: thanks, good to know that I can do something else for a while now
[12:13] <andreasn> like 4.1 ;)
[12:13] <kwwii> hehe
[12:21]  * Tm_T is shaking
[12:50] <_MMA_> kwwii: TheMuso cleaned up example-look to match the changes he did in ubuntustudio-look. Should make it easier to use as a base now. Check it out. bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
[15:25] <Cimi> kwwii, news from yesterday's meeting I might notice for the murrine development?
[15:26] <_MMA_> I didnt see that but I did mention you.
[15:27] <Cimi> just to notice how the development will take place
[15:28] <kwwii> _MMA_: cool, I will check that out in a bit
[15:28] <kwwii> Cimi: pretty much we talked about how hardy will have smaller changes and the big changes will be made first in hardy+1
[15:28] <kwwii> hardy being the last of the LTS cycle and only 4 months away
[15:29] <Cimi> yes
[15:29] <Cimi> so no new theme?
[15:29] <_MMA_> Not for Hardy.
[15:29] <Cimi> oh cool
[15:29] <_MMA_> Cimi: So will you know release a new Murrine update?
[15:29] <_MMA_> s/know/now
[15:30] <kwwii> hardy is supported for a long time and supposed to be the most solid of the line before we screw everything up again and start fresh
[15:30] <Cimi> I have more time now to convert the world from ubuntu to murrine ;)
[15:30] <kwwii> :-)
[15:31]  * _MMA_ downloads 30MB worth of build-deps to build some art packages. :D
[15:32] <_MMA_> (20 just for a iconset) :P
[16:42] <thorwil> hey nand
[17:05] <_MMA_> kwwii: No artwork deadlines here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[17:07] <_MMA_> kwwii: Want me to approximate the ones from Gutsy? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
[17:23] <kwwii> erm, they were there and now they are gone
[17:23] <kwwii> freaky
[17:23] <kwwii> yeah, we should go with pretty much the same ones from gutsy
[17:25] <_MMA_> Ok. Ill do it.
[17:27] <nand> hey thorwil
[17:30] <_MMA_> kwwii: How's that?
[17:32] <thorwil> nand: would you be ok with an svg with the text and region rectangles in layers? you could check font sizes, check size and coords of the rects and export a template after hiding layers with one file
[17:34] <nand> thorwil: If it is feasible for a inkscape noob, no problem :)
[17:34] <nand> s/for/by/
[17:34] <thorwil> nand: heh, sure. plus you have your helpdesk right here ;)
[17:34] <nand> :)
[17:41] <nand> thorwil: just saw your annoying bugs mockups. I like both D & E! What is your personal preference?
[17:42] <thorwil> nand: D
[17:43] <thorwil> for reference ;) http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/ubuntu-most-annoying-bugs/
[17:44] <nand> thorwil: If D, then IMO a very small margin between the logo and the borders would make it nicer.
[17:44] <nand> like the others samples
[17:46] <thorwil> will try that later on
[17:46] <nand> otherwise, it's perfect
[17:46] <nand> ok
[17:46] <thorwil> heh, thanks!
[17:50] <thorwil> nand: you got mail
[17:51] <nand> thorwil: in the inbox! thanks. I'll host and post as usual?
[17:52] <thorwil> nand: i don't think anyone wants to touch them. they're meant as base for generated text
[17:52] <nand> ok
[17:57] <thorwil> nand: oh, to work with these files, you need the layers dialog (shift+ctrl+L)
[18:00] <nand> thorwil: hehe yes, I was looking for them.
[18:00] <nand> ok it looks straighforward
[18:01] <thorwil> nand: good, as your support goes to eat something ;)
[18:02] <nand> thorwil: ;) I shall too. Thanks again for your work!
[18:40] <kwwii> _MMA_: looks good, thanks man
[18:41] <_MMA_> np
[21:15] <thorwil> nand: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/ubuntu-most-annoying-bugs-2/
[21:19] <nand> thorwil: perfect! Concerning font sizes, GD offers a pretty nice API, I think I could handle that. I'll see that soon
[21:19] <thorwil> nand: cool. i'll prepare another template file, then
[21:19] <nand> thx
[21:36] <thorwil> nand: note that with bugs 2, indexed PNG with 128 colours beats JPG
[21:37] <thorwil> haven't tried a smaller index, actually
[21:40] <nand> thorwil: by beating, you mean an higher file size?
[21:40] <thorwil> nand: smaller files with indexed png. sharper at the same time
[21:41] <thorwil> it tends to lead to problems with the anti-aliasing, but i saw none in this case
[21:42] <nand> ok. So I understand png is the better option here
[21:52] <thorwil> yes, good night :)
[22:48] <troy_s> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/11/apple_hoists_theres_something_in_the_air_macworld_banners.html
[22:48] <troy_s> New typesetting.  Very interesting.
[22:48] <troy_s> That is a massive shift.


[00:57] <mwhudson> vorlon: my evil plan succeeded
[01:09] <vorlon> + symlink /<<BUILDDIR>>/xmms2-0.8+dfsg/debian/tmp/usr/lib64/libxmmsclient++.so.4 (to libxmmsclient++.so.4.0.0)
[01:09] <vorlon> cute
[01:10] <vorlon> a completely natural thing to do on ppc64el-only and only on no-change rebuild
[01:11] <sarnold> there might even be a ppc64el user of xmms2 :)
[01:29] <blahdeblah> sarnold: I hope not
[01:29] <sarnold> blahdeblah: not a fan of the old winamp skins? :)
[01:31] <blahdeblah> In 2004, yes. ;-)
[01:31] <sarnold> hehe
[03:04] <vorlon> mwhudson: uh is it intentional that libc6-dev in jammy only has libdl.a, not libdl.so?
[03:04] <vorlon> mwhudson: (impish and jammy)
[08:43] <guiverc> cjwatson, reported firefox issue upstream (jammy canary issue), BUT i just experienced the issue with xubuntu jammy iso 20211117 which has no snap version of firefox installed??
[08:45] <guiverc> sorry that's 20211118 daily ^
[13:45] <mfo> juliank, hey o/ friendly ping about a MR review for grub2's hwmatch error msg, on bug 1840560, if at all possible, when you have a chance. :)
[13:54] <paride> juliank, hi! one question on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bind9/+bug/1951097 which is unrelated with the bug itself :) You mentioned "grepping the archive" there, but did you do it? Do we have something like codesearch.debian.net?
[14:15] <juliank> paride: we only have sarnold to grep the archive
[14:19] <paride> juliank, ty!
[15:24] <bdmurray> xnox: Could you answer the question in comment #2 of bug 1943530? If you know it of course.
[15:26] <xnox> bdmurray:  added comment.
[15:27] <bdmurray> xnox: thanks!
[17:11] <schopin> Could a good soul among core devs click on the following link? https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=jammy&arch=s390x&package=libmodulemd&trigger=gobject-introspection%2F1.70.0-2ubuntu1
[17:14] <xnox> schopin:  clicked
[17:14] <schopin> thx
[17:52] <dbungert> Would someone assist with a retest click?  https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=jammy&arch=amd64&package=golang-golang-x-tools&trigger=node-jquery/3.5.1%2Bdfsg%2B~3.5.5-8
[17:58] <mdeslaur> dbungert: done
[17:58] <dbungert> mdeslaur: thank you
[18:34] <dbungert> The golang-golang-x-tools retrigger passed for amd64, would someone assist with the rest?  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JyBcVswBRZ/
[18:45] <bdmurray> I can do that
[18:45] <dbungert> bdmurray: thank you
[21:18] <mwhudson> oh no https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ccache


[13:37] <dtcrshr> hello felas!
[13:38] <dtcrshr> nice project this one - http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
[13:38] <dtcrshr> do you have any beta testing projects?
[16:20] <mika___> dtcrshr: beta testing?
[17:50] <tarelerulz> Can I download an iso with Ubuntu for android stuff?
[18:26] <dtcrshr> mika___: well, to assemble this ubuntu as in the video
[18:26] <dtcrshr> i have milestone 2 and 3 here on the store to test up
[18:26] <dtcrshr> i think on droid 2 wont work very well the tv stuff cause it doesnt have hdmk output
[22:58] <Dioxin> are there any phones currently supporting Ubuntu?
[23:01] <Graham1> Hi, I am interested about learning more about Ubuntu on Android and well also helping it in development.
[23:01] <Hiob> Moin, any new news?
[23:03] <HonestFlames> I don't want to develop ubuntu, I want to develop apps and helper tools in ubuntu that will run on my phone and will interact with existing data.
[23:07] <Graham1> I have experience doing Android development,  building Android, creating linux from scratch systems and general software development etc.... Anyway, I think its a great idea and would like to know how I contribute.
[23:09] <Hiob> i want Ubuntu on my Transformer and since the bootloader is closes, it could be my last chance
[23:09] <Myrtti> I'm not certain this is the correct channel for discussing Ubuntu for Android, but for now it's the best there is. Please do stick around and perhaps at some point in the future your questions will be answered
[23:10] <Graham1> Myrtti: Thanks for your reply. It's getting pretty late where I am, so I might join this channel tomorrow and ask again, however for now I will just sit tight.


[12:25] <Mike20> Can anyone give me step by steps to install Lubuntu 18.04 on a windows XP computer as a dual bootup?
[12:26] <Mike20> This old pc has 1GB RAM, 1.8GHz intel pentium M processor
 @Mike20 [<Mike20> Can anyone give me step by steps to install Lubuntu 18.04 on a windows …], Prepare CD/USB with install media, boot from that install media, select install option, follow wizard. … 1GB will not give you a decent performance in say browser, because in XXI century more is needed to display pure text site :/
[16:07] <tomreyn> mike left 4 minutes after discussing his system resources
[22:08] <pedrosc1967> Hi
[22:09] <kc2bez> Hello, welcome to the Lubuntu support channel.
[22:20] <Marty77> I'm trying to load 20.04.1 64 AMD for the first time but have been a user since 16.04 and 18.04,  Why can I not find the "hidden network option"?
[22:21] <kc2bez> Try right-clicking on the network icon and going to edit connections.
[22:23] <Marty77> oooooH the old right click trick.  Thanks.
[22:24] <kc2bez> NP, Happy to help.
[22:25] <Marty77> Happy Thanksgivings


[05:09] <rww> whee!
[12:26] <bazhang> * [Sug] (~r00t@<IP_ADDRESS>): lalo  did someone mention sug being jungli?
[12:29] <LjL> bazhang: wasn't it larstorben?
[12:30] <bazhang> LjL, that IP looks like one jungli would use; iirc he was asking for a cloak on #freenode with the nick 'sug' a short while back
[12:30] <LjL> hmmm. maybe i remember wrong.
[12:31] <bazhang> and since his new bouncer is now banned, probably ban evading that way
[12:46] <ikonia> bazhang: that is jungli
[12:46] <bazhang> ikonia, thought so. he seems to have logged off for now, this was a couple of hours ago
[12:46] <ikonia> just stuck a forward on to catch him
[12:47] <bazhang> thanks
[12:47] <ikonia> no, thank you
[12:52] <Pici> ugh, a forward.
[12:53] <LjL> fun times
[14:03] <Ileden> Hello. I think nick D34X might be abusing the support channel for his own amusement. I asked a question, he replied to me in private claiming channel is "too flooded", and his/her advice has been rather weird (I can provide details). What should be done?
[14:04] <Tm_T> hi Iltsu
[14:04] <Ileden> Hi :)
[14:04] <Tm_T> Ileden: you can ask him to not PM but only provide support in channel
[14:04] <Tm_T> !pm
[14:05] <LjL> Ileden: please do provide details on the advice he gave
[14:06] <Ileden> LjL: Ok. The problem is after upgrading to 11.04 my display is pretty messed up. Pic here (which I did link to him): http://ileden.kapsi.fi/dist/ubuntu-11-04-messed-up.jpg He then adviced me to dualboot to Win2000, to get it's color scheme to cross over to Ubuntu to fix the issue.
[14:06] <LjL> ...
[14:06] <LjL> interesting advice indeed
[14:06] <Tm_T> LjL: beat me to it
[14:07] <Ileden> indeed. here's the queote: 15:54 <D34X> if you have a copy of windows 2000 or later, the color scheme from that should cross over into ubuntu
[14:07] <Ileden> 15:55 <Ileden> color scheme should cross over?
[14:07] <Ileden> 15:55 <D34X> Color cross, yeah
[14:07] <elky> I think he's counting on the monitor settings being altered by windows, which isn't exactly that far-fetched afaik
[14:08] <Tm_T> elky: you mean color profiles?
[14:08] <elky> whatever they're called
[14:08] <Ileden> elky: hm... He does seem ok otherwise, that's why I'm a bit confused.
[14:08] <LjL> i've asked a short question similar to yours, want to see if i get any PM, but none so far
[14:09] <Tm_T> anyway, it's always good to try push the support conversation back to channel, so other's can provide the input
[14:09] <jussi> could it be he accidently PM'ed the wrong user?
[14:09] <Ileden> jussi: no, we had a working conversation about the problem.
[14:10] <LjL> Ileden: maybe you could try asking him (in the channel perhaps) what the mechanism is, to his knowledge, that carries over the "color scheme" to Ubuntu
[14:10] <Ileden> I'm just worried he/she might be messing up other easier victims on the channel.
[14:12] <Ileden> LjL: I asked that from him in private.
[14:13] <Ileden> Hmm, how do I grab the backlog to a file in irssi?
[14:15] <Ileden> Well, his reply is either beyond my knowledge of technology, or rather out-there :D. 16:13 <D34X> What will happen is that the ubuntu color code will travel through windows to the processor.  While going through windows, some of the code will be recognized as color cheme/video out and will e fed through the windows video codecs.  When they go through, they will be over written if any of them are corrupted
[14:17] <LjL> total nonsense
[14:17] <Ileden> Anyway, just wanted to bring this to your attention. If you still need something from me regarding this, do ask. I can provide the log of the chat, but then again I could of course just write some up myself if I wanted to so that's not much of evidence :)
[14:17] <LjL> i think he's a troll
[14:17] <LjL> i don't use irssi sorry
[14:18] <LjL> Ileden: yeah we'd probably want at least another report
[14:18] <LjL> Ileden: which is why i tried to frame him but it didn't work :P
[14:18] <Ileden> LjL  hm, would you be able to steal my nick somehow for this purpose?
[14:19] <LjL> Ileden: not without him realizing i suspect
[14:20] <LjL> anyway we'll certainly keep an eye on him
[14:21] <Ileden> yeah. well, depends on his skills i guess. evidence of them isn't very good so far ;)
[14:22] <Ileden> yup. well, thanks for the audience, I'll go back to the channel to ask for help.
[14:22] <LjL> Ileden: i don't feel very comfortable trying that trick, to be honest
[14:23] <Ileden> LjL: Understandable.
[14:51] <Ileden> Here's the full log of my conversation with D34X. It's somewhat plausible there's no malicious intent, just very weird confusion. But probably not. http://ileden.kapsi.fi/dist/log-ileden-d34x-2011-05-18.txt
[14:51] <Ileden> I'll leave you now. Thanks for the audience. :)
[14:52] <ikonia> not very happy with what I read in that conversation
[14:52] <LjL> me either
[14:53] <ikonia> speak to him when he comes baclk
[14:53] <ikonia> back
[14:54] <Pici> ikonia: is fujisan banned in there?
[14:54] <jussi> what happened to prompt that ban ?
[14:54] <ikonia> has been in the past - don't see a value to him being in the channel
[14:54] <ikonia> he's too much of a long term issue
[14:54] <ikonia> it's been cleared out with the mass ban clear out, due to one of the MANY evades he's done
[14:55] <ikonia> after all the behaviour he does with people in pm/channel everything, I don't want him in there
[14:56] <ikonia> sorry if that doesn't fit in with the current guidelines but I'm not prepared to allow his behaviour to start up again
[14:58] <fujisan> IdleOne!~IdleOne@ubuntu/member/idleone on Sat Jan 01 21:39:20
 i was just banned from ubuntu-offtopic while doing nothing wrong :( by someone who just doesnt like me and happens to be an @dmin there, what can i do?
[14:59] <ikonia> fujisan: I've explained the reason I re-banned you
[14:59] <ikonia> it's nothing to do with not liking you
[14:59] <fujisan> he or she said the ban was removed by accident but i dont believe this
[14:59] <ikonia> you have that many bans in place in #ubuntu channels your ban has been removed by mistake. I've put it back
[14:59] <fujisan> so can someone check if this is true please
[14:59] <fujisan> if its true i can accept it and just forget about it
[14:59] <fujisan> but i dont trust this person to be fair in this particular
[14:59] <fujisan> case
[14:59] <LjL> i will check
[14:59] <Pici> We did clean up our ban lists recently, its very possible that a ban was removed accidentally.
[15:00] <ikonia> there was so many bans under many nicks/ips
[15:00] <fujisan> evidence?
[15:00] <Tm_T> AFAIK it is how ikonia said it is
[15:00] <Pici> fujisan: We'll wait for LjL's response.
[15:00] <fujisan> okay that seems fair
[15:01] <fujisan> and also ikonia you could have send me a pvt message and ask me to leave if i was evading a ban
[15:01] <fujisan> i mean now i look like someone evil
[15:01] <fujisan> but i was having a friendly conversation
[15:01] <fujisan> i have feelings too you now
[15:02] <fujisan> i made an effort i changed my behaviour on irc
[15:02] <fujisan> ask in macosx where you also idle
[15:02] <ikonia> fujisan: that time has long past
[15:02] <fujisan> just ask them
[15:02] <ikonia> no
[15:02] <LjL> yes fujisan the last ban i have on you was removed by staff during a mass-ban-removal
[15:02] <LjL> i don't have complete logs though so that might not be entirely accurate
[15:02] <fujisan> ok well then i will just have to accept that ikonia gets to decide who gets to chat and not no problem, but thats not in the spirit of ubuntu
[15:03] <fujisan> bu bye
[15:18] <Tm_T> ehh, interesting interpretation
[15:20] <ikonia> joined #debian-offtopic and said is it ok if I switch to debian and chat here as well as trying to provoke in #macosx - I just see no reason to allow this person to use the ubuntu channels
[15:21] <Tm_T> indeed
[17:23] <Pici> meh
[20:08] <Jordan_U> !exploit
[20:09] <LjL> different exploit, factoid / wiki should be updated... or perhaps who cares :P
[20:09] <Jordan_U> Is there a good link explaining the compiz / apturl exploit which can be used?
[20:10] <Jordan_U> Is it even a good idea to give a link after telling users not to click untrusted links?
[20:10] <LjL> links by ubottu aren't untrusted :P
[20:10] <Jordan_U> LjL: Yes, but links from ubollu might not be, or other standard tricks.
[20:11] <LjL> well, if you ask me, the "don't click on untrusted link" thing is a bit silly
[20:11] <LjL> i added it to the bot, but it's silly nonetheless
[20:11] <LjL> i click on untrusted links
[20:11] <LjL> that's sort of the *point* of links
[20:12] <Jordan_U> LjL: Then were you one of the people who helped spread the javascript based IRC spamming some time back?
[20:13] <LjL> i doubt it
[20:13] <LjL> but even if i had been, that would really have not been my fault
[20:13] <LjL> clicking on links is what the hypertext idea *is*
[20:13] <Jordan_U> I disagree.
[20:13] <LjL> can't blame users for obvious deficiencies of the software
[20:14] <LjL> you may disagree with facts all you want, but that's the idea of the world wide web.
[20:14] <Jordan_U> LjL: Just because the software has vulnerabilities does not mean that you, knowing that such vulnerabilities exist, are not also at fault for reckless behavior.
[20:15] <LjL> browing the web is not "reckless behavior"
[20:15] <mbeierl> should the ubottu "exploit" factoid be updated in light of the apt:// exploit?  it's leading people to believe the apt:// is actually the DCC exploit
[20:15] <LjL> yes it should
[20:15] <LjL> but i'm too lazy to do it
[20:15] <LjL> feel free to edit the wiki if you want, and have more information about the apt exploit, and then we can fix the factoid too
[20:16] <mbeierl> k, I couldn't find the report on it so I can't help propose a proper link :(
[20:16] <mbeierl> I'll search some more and come back if I find a decent source to quote
[20:16] <LjL> thanks
[20:20] <mbeierl> LjL: don't know where/how to edit wiki:  here's a fairly good url for the apt exploit: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1132-1/
[20:21] <LjL> !no exploit is <reply> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse certain bugs that cause unintended behavior. When bitten by these, #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit and more about a recent bug at http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1132-1/
[20:22] <mbeierl> LjL: thanks!  ciao
[20:22] <IdleOne> !no exploit is <reply> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse certain bugs that cause unintended behavior. When bitten by these, #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit and more about a recent bug at http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1132-1/
[20:23] <IdleOne> I don't think that is going to be helpful to anyone really. The bug is fixed, we need to focus on keeping the spam out of the channel.
[20:23] <LjL> i think people have a right to know what cause(s|d) their systems to crash
[20:24] <IdleOne> absolutely
[20:24] <rww> i think people should subscribe to ubuntu-security-announce, but i live in dreamworld :(
[20:25] <IdleOne> Now that the bug is fixed I think our goal should be to protect the channel from spammers
[20:25] <Pici> rww: Hows the weather there?
[20:26] <rww> 25C and a slight breeze
[20:27] <LjL> IdleOne: well do you have proposals on protecting it better than we're doing now?
[20:27] <IdleOne> LjL: I wish I did
[20:27] <rww> #ubuntu's already +m, I think we're g... oh, sorry, was still in dreamworld
[20:28] <Jordan_U> Looks like we at least didn't lose anyone that time.
[20:28] <IdleOne> I think floodbot's are doing a good job catching the spammers but I wish there was a way to prevent it from happening
[20:29] <LjL> IdleOne: well i used to set modes immediately when i detected possibly malicious hosts, but that didn't work ideally well
[20:29] <rww> move to OFTC and thus stop being targeted by the people being obnoxious because they dislike freenode ;P?
[20:29]  * Pici remembers back to a time when we didn't have floodbots
[20:29] <Jordan_U> Split #ubuntu into #ubuntu-input and #ubuntu-output. Nobody will be voiced in #ubuntu-input, and only bots will relay messages in #ubuntu-output.
[20:29] <Pici> Jordan_U: hah
[20:30]  * LjL remembers back to a time when we had 700 VERSION requests disconnecting 200 users and then we set +r for half an hour and then manually kicked people out of -unregged
[20:30] <LjL> it wasn't too nice :P
[20:30] <Pici> yep
[20:30] <LjL> Jordan_U: i actually used to set +mz and relay messages manually at times of serious issues
[20:30] <Pici> I still have some of those aliases.
[20:30] <rww> I don't remember that. I'm little!
[20:31] <LjL> also, when the DCC exploit actually disconnected a crapton of people
[20:35] <LjL> but now fortunately things have changed, we have bots to do our work for us, and so we're free to bicker about appeals and policies and stuff all the time!
[20:35] <rww> hehe
[20:38] <ikonia> [min|dvir|us]
[20:38] <ikonia> is mindvirus banned ?
[20:38] <ikonia> @btlogin
[20:41] <ikonia> I can see lots of old bans removed, but nothing current
[20:41] <Pici> Maybe he was banned elsewhere and changed his nick to evade that?
[20:41] <Pici> Somewhere non #ubuntu*
[20:42] <ikonia> he's had enough bans in #ubuntu to change his nick, he probably doesn't know he's not banned
[20:42] <ikonia> he changed it to m1ndvirus to get around one in offtopic I think
[20:42] <ikonia> hence my wondering
[20:42] <rww> oh, that reminds me, the floodbot +bqe pruning is going on hiatus until we hit b+q+e+I=400 because i'm lazy and more people need to be banned because i'm cynical today
[20:44] <Pici> rww you're making floodbot changes?
[20:44] <rww> no, I prune them manually
[20:45] <rww> well, with the help of a script that tells me +bqe that have been set for > 1 week and aren't #ubuntu-read-topic redirects.
[20:46] <Pici> Ah
[20:46] <rww> b+q+e+I=400 is also when the rww "who has the most bans" leaderboard is going to start appearing. so that's fun.
[20:46] <Pici> ooh ooh
[20:46] <rww> (400 being 80% full)
[20:46] <Pici> I bet its ikonia.
[20:47] <ikonia> I wise bet
[20:47] <rww> I would not recommend betting against Pici there.
[20:47] <ikonia> a
[20:47] <Pici> After all, ikonia controls who can and cannot talk on #ubuntu channels.
[20:48] <ikonia> thats just how I roll
[20:48] <rww> ikonia and illuminati both start with i
[20:48] <Pici> oooh
[20:48] <ikonia> you're putting it all together
[20:49] <rww> Pici: slightly more difficultly, who are the two other people with more bans than the FloodBots ;P
[20:50] <Pici> hmm
[20:50] <ikonia> errr idleone ?
[20:50] <Pici> rww: bazhang and ikonia
[20:50] <LjL> me! me!
[20:50] <Pici> er, IdleOne
[20:50] <ikonia> Pici: too late, you said bazhang
[20:50] <Pici> 'two people'
[20:50] <rww> (for reference, FloodBots have 26, this doesn't count quiets, but does count bans that lost their owners on banlists (I grabbed their owners manually))
[20:51] <IdleOne> why me?
[20:51] <ikonia> oh, IdleOne was in place of me
[20:51] <ikonia> seemed like a good guess
[20:51] <LjL> so it's not me? :(
[20:51] <rww> Pici: no on both bazhang and IdleOne ;P
[20:52] <ikonia> oooh
[20:52] <jrib> hmm, really...?
[20:52] <ikonia> do we get clues ?
[20:52] <rww> one of them's a newbie
[20:52] <rww> IdleOne has 8, bazhang has 3
[20:52] <Pici> rww!
[20:52] <rww> I have 4 ;P
[20:52] <LjL> jordan
[20:52] <rww> LjL: Jordan_U's second place, yup.
[20:52] <Pici> He must do those when I'm not around
[20:52] <Jordan_U> :)
[20:53] <LjL> and jpds
[20:53] <ikonia> ahhh, jpds was a good bet
[20:53] <rww> jpds only has 21, so nope
[20:53] <ikonia> ooh, double wrong
[20:53] <LjL> jrib then?
[20:53] <rww> jrib has 10
[20:53] <LjL> ME!
[20:53] <rww> you have 3
[20:53] <LjL> :(
[20:53] <jrib> pfft
[20:54] <rww> new clue: the third-place person is an IRCC member
[20:54] <IdleOne> what about rww
[20:54] <Pici> tsimpson
[20:54] <LjL> teeerrrence
[20:54] <rww> Pici: yup!
[20:54] <LjL> simpson!
[20:55] <LjL> well, anyway i decide who the floodbots actually ban, and the floodbots have the most bans
[20:55] <LjL> so it's really... ME!
[20:55] <ikonia> it's always about LjL
[20:55] <ikonia> doh
[20:55] <LjL> yes yes
[20:55] <rww> no they don't, they have 26 and are 4th place ;P
[20:55] <LjL> :(
[20:55] <rww> and that's all of them collectively
[20:55] <LjL> they don't have separate identities!
[20:55] <Pici> heh
[20:55] <rww> oh whatever, I'll just do it now. http://rww.name/dump/scoreboard.txt has everyone on it ;)
[20:56] <ikonia> hi log readers
[20:56] <ikonia> feeding time
[20:56] <Pici> I'm Pici, I'll be your host tonight.
[20:56] <rww> (and yes, I can list all the bans an op has if you feel like cleaning up)
[20:57] <LjL> i'd clean up but i don't have op, what a pity :(
[20:57] <Pici> rww: would you mind pasting them somewhere for me?
[20:57] <rww> LjL: I can fix that if you want
[20:57] <rww> Pici: yours?
[20:57] <LjL> nah
[20:57] <tsimpson> I do try and remove bans you know, at least when ubottu reminds me :)
[20:57] <Pici> rww: Yes, mine please.
[20:58] <LjL> tsimpson: at least you're trying ;(
[20:58] <Pici> I don't care about anyone else ;P
[20:58] <LjL> Pici: it's always about YOU, isn't it
[20:58] <rww> http://rww.name/dump/censorshipbypici.txt
[20:58] <LjL> lol
[20:58] <tsimpson> if you see bans by me that probably should be removed, just go ahead and remove them
[20:58] <tsimpson> or just poke me to remove them
[20:58] <LjL> rww: can i have greatjusticebyljl.txt
[20:58] <Pici> rww: ...  thanks
[20:59] <rww> LjL: http://rww.name/dump/deathbyphpcode.txt
[20:59] <LjL> :|
[21:00] <jrib> appropriate
[21:00] <rww> oh look, proof of my hypothesis that LjL pretty much already has ops ;P
[21:48] <LjL> any ubuntu member want to help gnugr in #ubuntu-gr getting rid of a spammer? there is no op in there, but ubuntu/member is in the access list
[21:56] <LjL> IdleOne: none of the ops is currently on irc, the founder was last seen "about one week ago", the channel doesn't seem to be in a particularly good state :\
[21:56] <IdleOne> well one week is not that long.
[21:56] <LjL> gnugr asked me to find freenode staff, he didn't quite get that freenode staff wouldn't do anything :P
[21:56] <LjL> IdleOne: no no, but it's long if none of the other ops are around either :P
[21:57] <IdleOne> ping me if you need me in there and maybe lRCC member can idle there also
[21:58] <LjL> ok thanks
[21:58] <IdleOne> btw I don't speak greek so
[21:59] <LjL> IdleOne: they're just talking about you, not to you
[21:59] <IdleOne> yeah I figured
[22:49] <rww> fujisan: hello
[22:49] <fujisan> hi
[22:49] <rww> fujisan: Anything we can help you with?
[22:50] <fujisan> i want to chat about ubuntu but it seems to not be possible any suggestions?
[22:50] <rww> fujisan: Ubuntu Forums
[22:52] <fujisan> i prefer irc
[22:52] <fujisan> is freenode the only server for ubuntu chatter?
[22:53] <rww> fujisan: All the official Ubuntu channels are on freenode, as far as I know. I don't know of other servers with Ubuntu channels.
[22:53] <rww> fujisan: If there isn't anything related to the core channels, please take note of our no-idling policy.
[22:54] <fujisan> oh ye i was wondering about the status of my complaints
[22:54] <rww> fujisan: which complaints?
[22:54] <rww> if you mean the stuff about #ubuntu-nl* earlier this week, I note that this channel still is not the place for LoCo channel issues, as I said at the time
[22:55] <fujisan> about the admin ikonia who banned me just because of my history claiming the ban was pre-existing too hard to explain i came in for it earlier but i didnt safe the log
[22:55] <fujisan> sorry
[22:55] <fujisan> save*
[22:55] <rww> ah, one sec, I'll peruse the scrollback.
[22:55] <fujisan> rww no that ubuntu-nl issue was for the irc council
[22:55] <fujisan> the ubuntu-irc council
[22:56] <rww> fujisan: you'd want to ask the IRC Council about your problems with ikonia too, from the looks of it.
[22:56] <fujisan> thanks rww :)
[22:56] <fujisan> rww perhaps
[22:56] <CarlFK> (09:02:54 AM) fujisan: ok well then i will just have to accept that ikonia gets to decide who gets to chat and not no problem, but thats not in the spirit of ubuntu
[22:56] <CarlFK> seams you have not accepted that.
[22:56] <fujisan> how can you accept injustice
[22:57] <fujisan> i could ask in philosophy perhaps
[22:57] <rww> fujisan: Lots and lots of apathy, and knowledge that there are people with oversight over the other ops. Who you should talk to.
[22:57] <fujisan> it's just a weird policy to ban someone on side who used to be on the banlist
[22:57] <fujisan> i dont see the honesty in it
[22:58] <rww> fujisan: It's an interesting situation, yes.
[22:58] <CarlFK> given what we have to work with, it works.  There is no need for more resources to be put into it.
[22:58] <fujisan> sight*
[22:58] <fujisan> CarlFK yes you are entitled to that opinion
[22:58] <fujisan> but how is that in the spirit of ubuntu?
[22:59] <CarlFK> is or isn/t, it doesn't matter.
[22:59] <fujisan> not to you but to me it does matter
[22:59] <fujisan> i dont have any friends outside of IRC
[23:00] <CarlFK> open source in general relises on people doing what they think is right.
[23:00] <fujisan> but Ubuntu isn't a philosophy?
[23:00] <CarlFK> fujisan: I suggest you take up the frinds problem in #philosophy or some such channel.. that is a problem that should not be discussed here.
[23:01] <fujisan> i know CarlFK just saying
[23:01] <fujisan> i have a social phobia
[23:01] <fujisan> ok i will leave then bu bye
[23:01] <CarlFK> bye.
[23:01] <fujisan> and thanks for your time CarlFK and rww especially :)
[23:01] <LjL> @mark fujisan
[23:01]  * rww hits /name
[23:02] <rww> UndiFineD: hi, something we can help you with?
[23:02] <UndiFineD> rww, heh, I just looked up ubuntu on quakenet
[23:02] <IdleOne> speak now or forever be +q'ed
[23:02]  * popey speaks just in case
[23:02] <LjL> blah blah blah
[23:02] <elky> rww, #ubuntu-irc-council exists for redirecting the occasional 'for the ircc' soliloquy
[23:03] <rww> UndiFineD: yeah, I think there are a couple of unofficial ones out there. I don't venture past OFTC though, so...
[23:03] <IdleOne> /mode +q popey 4EVA
[23:03] <UndiFineD> lol
[23:03] <rww> elky: I thought #ubuntu-irc-council was for entering, asking a question, and then getting /removed from while idle waiting for an answer.
[23:03] <IdleOne> hah
[23:03] <rww> sorry, that was bad
[23:03] <LjL> but probably true!
[23:03] <rww> elky: thanks, I'll bear that in mind
[23:03]  * IdleOne spits coffee all over his monitor
[23:04] <rww> UndiFineD: anyways, as I mentioned to fujisan, if you don't have a core channel issue we can help with, please /part so we can keep better track of who needs help :)
[23:04] <UndiFineD> alright
[23:04] <UndiFineD> o/
[23:04] <LjL> has his campaign been decided about?
[23:05] <LjL> or he is putting things together still
[23:05] <LjL> s/he is/is he/
[23:05] <IdleOne> rww: did you change your position about the no-idling policy in here?
[23:05] <rww> IdleOne: yes. LjL doesn't like it so it must be good.
[23:05] <elky> rww, in such a case the hint might be worthwhile, else the reflex may be interrupted. Either way, there is a channel more suited to what can probably be termed drama class.
[23:05]  * LjL slaps rww
[23:06] <rww> IdleOne: It was one of the things i pondered the last few weeks.
[23:06] <IdleOne> LjL: he has a point though
[23:06] <LjL> :\
[23:06] <rww> no I don't :(
[23:06] <rww> elky: Drama class? Do you mean the one I'm thinking of, or #ubuntu-irc-council?
[23:07] <elky> rww, i mean the "known problem maker coming in here claiming innocence and making silly assertions for the lulz' thing.
[23:08] <IdleOne> elky: btw #ubuntu-gr needs a update to the access list. IRCC has no access there and there seems to be very few if any ops around.
[23:08] <LjL> though may want to wait for simosx and talk to them
[23:08] <LjL> they're not the channel founder, but they're the team leader on launchpad
[23:08] <IdleOne> yeah that ^
[23:09] <elky> IdleOne, i recall it being said that ubuntu/member is on the access list?
[23:10] <LjL> yeah but maybe simosx himself should be +f at least, given the two people who're actually +f appear to be MIA
[23:10] <IdleOne> yes, but I thought maybe 1 or all ircc members can idle there also. they have been having issues with spam and no ops around to handle it.
[23:10] <elky> LjL, ah, so nobody to consent to the access list change?
[23:11] <IdleOne> so it appears
[23:11] <elky> Any staff watching? please do that^

[23:11] <LjL> elky: wait actually i missed one who does have a +f (small +f not +F but i guess that will do)
[23:12] <elky> LjL, is said individual contactable?
[23:12] <LjL> i think the founder was originally Apokryphos but he left for SuSE, the alefteris but he's not been around for a long time, and then there is a Phantomas who's also away for 10 weeks
[23:12] <LjL> but this logari81 has come online now, and i didn't previously notice he has +f
[23:12] <LjL> might want to try talking to them
[23:12] <elky> LjL, have him meet me in -irc then
[23:13] <LjL> seeing if he speaks english, then will
[23:38] <elky> staff, logari81 has declined the assistance we have offered, so I retract the request.


 We have candidate ISOs for 22.04.1 to test :)
 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/437/builds
[06:29] <valorie> \o/
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:27] <mparillo> Hi BluesKaj JJ .1 ISOs are out. OEM and Encrypted looking good. http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/437/builds/254990/testcases
[15:28] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: probably not a priority today, but FYI plasma 5.25.4 out today is building for Kinetic and Jammy in PPAs
[15:28] <RikMills> I don't see anything obvious in the c/l that might fix the kfocus issues, but you never know
[15:29] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Yeah, not a humongus prority, but thanks. I'll let Mike know.
[15:29] <RikMills> yeah, he is not in here so pinged you
[15:29] <RikMills> I'll ping again when final builds are available to test


[11:21] <m4n1sh> mt
[20:34] <doomlord_> does the ubuntu compositor support ARGB elements within windows
[20:35] <doomlord_> it is possible to get an ARGB theme for gtk,say.
[20:35] <doomlord_> eg transparent windows & decorations with opaque text -  like the Terminal has


[00:02] <nijaba> SpamapS: all 5 issues your reported for limesurvey should now be fixed
[00:03] <nijaba> SpamapS: thanks again for your help
[00:20] <marcoceppi> Can Juju manage deployments between different environments?
[00:21] <marcoceppi> Like, I've got three bare metal servers, so to juju that's three environments - but I would like to relate things between environments
[02:06] <_mup_> Bug #900104 was filed: watch_related_units callback is icky <juju:In Progress> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/900104 >
[06:10] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: 3 bare metal servers would just be one env if you used orchestra
[06:26]  * marcoceppi needs orchestra
[06:26] <marcoceppi> Thanks SpamapS
[06:44] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: to the bigger question.. right now envs are decent ways to group availability zones.. so crossing envs usually involves something special to handle the latency between two envs. :)
[06:58] <SpamapS> hrm.. limesurvey's sessioning doesn't seem to work right
[06:58] <SpamapS> loses my session whenever it load balances to another node
[08:37] <_mup_> Bug #900186 was filed: no spec for machine placement story <juju:In Progress by fwereade> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/900186 >
[10:45] <_mup_> Bug #900227 was filed: guarantee start hook execution on machine boot <juju:In Progress by fwereade> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/900227 >
[11:33] <amithkk> !Rejoin
[11:33] <amithkk> :P
[12:10] <rog> TheMue: to check out the sources
[12:11] <rog> it's best, i think, to create a directory to hold all the branches
[12:11] <rog> in bazaar, each branch has its own directory
[12:11] <rog> i use $HOME/src/juju
[12:11] <TheMue> reminds me of svn
[12:12] <mainerror> Houston, we have a problem! My ThinkPad stopped charging its batteries!
[12:13] <rog> i usually keep one pristine directory for each branch, representing the trunk
[12:13] <rog> mainerror: ouch
[12:13] <TheMue> mainerror: so your name matches, that's bad (in this case)
[12:13] <mainerror> -_-
[12:13] <rog> TheMue: then to check out the python sources, for example, i'd do: cd $HOME/src/juju; bzr branch lp:juju juju-trunk
[12:13] <mainerror> Sad mainerror is sad.
[12:14] <rog> TheMue: to check out the go juju sources, bzr branch lp:juju/go go-trunk
[12:14] <rog> oops, forgotten one crucial step
[12:15] <rog> TheMue: before you start checking things out, should make a shared repo so all the branches can share data
[12:16] <rog> TheMue: in my case, cd $HOME/src/juju; bzr init-repository
[12:16] <TheMue> ok
[12:16] <rog> TheMue: then you can branch to your heart's content.
[12:16] <TheMue> needs a locations, so in your case just . ?
[12:17] <rog> yeah
[12:17] <TheMue> fine
[12:17] <rog> TheMue: before you start work on some source code, create a branch for that item of work - usually the branch directory name reflects the work that you're doing
[12:18] <rog> TheMue: i usually start when a generic name then change it to something more specific when i know what the merge request does
[12:18] <TheMue> rog: ok, very important hints
[12:19] <TheMue> rog: I'm currently fetching the sources, so it works fine
[12:19] <rog> cool
[12:19] <rog> TheMue: when you actually want to submit some code for review, you should use Gustavo's lbox tool
[12:19] <rog> TheMue: (you can get it with apt-get install lbox)
[12:19] <niemeyer> Hello jujuers
[12:19] <rog> niemeyer: yo!
[12:20] <TheMue> moo gustavo
[12:20] <fwereade> heya niemeyer
[12:21] <TheMue> rog: which repository for lbox?
[12:21] <rog> TheMue: good point, i can't remember. one mo.
[12:25] <rog> TheMue: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gophers/go
[12:27] <TheMue> lbox installed O>
[12:29] <niemeyer> TheMue: You can get the full workflow here: http://blog.labix.org/2011/11/17/launchpad-rietveld-happycodereviews
[12:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: thx, I've already read it after you've published it. but now I have to dig deeper.
[12:35] <nijaba> hey guys. Great to see that my charm has been put into lp:charm/limesurvey.  Small question for you: what's the process for me to upload changes to it from now on?  Make the changes in my branch and request a merge?
[12:37] <TheMue> ok, afk for lunch
[13:27] <mpl> niemeyer: greetings. nothing to report for goyaml, it builds out of the box with weekly.
[13:27] <niemeyer> mpl: Fantastic
[13:27] <niemeyer> mpl: I think we're good, as far as weekly goes
[13:28] <niemeyer> mpl: I have a suggestion that may enable you to collaborate more closely with rog
[13:28] <niemeyer> mpl: with something more involved
[13:28] <mpl> cool
[13:28]  * rog is listening
[13:28] <niemeyer> mpl: We need to introduce ssh support
[13:28] <niemeyer> mpl: We use ssh in a few different ways
[13:29] <niemeyer> mpl: I suggest you spend some time looking at the Python implementation to understand some of the background
[13:29] <niemeyer> mpl: Before diving onto the implementation
[13:29] <niemeyer> mpl, rog: I'd like to try using exp/ssh for the forwarding
[13:30] <rog> niemeyer: the zookeeper connection?
[13:32] <mpl> niemeyer: when you say the python implementation, you mean the parts of juju that use ssh?
[13:33] <niemeyer> rog: Yeha
[13:33] <niemeyer> mpl: That's right
[13:33] <rog> niemeyer: seems like a good idea.
[13:34] <niemeyer> mpl: Check out juju/state/ssh*.py, and juju/providers/ec2/* for hints of how that
[13:34] <niemeyer> 's used
[13:34] <mpl> rog, niemeyer: so how is the zookeeper connection and that forwarding you're talking about done at the moment in the go port?
[13:35] <niemeyer> mpl: There's nothing
[13:35] <mpl> not at all, or with some other way than ssh?
[13:35] <mpl> oh ok.
[13:35] <rog> mpl: haven't even got as far as starting zk yet...
[13:37] <mpl> rog: how do you suggest we go about that? shall I read those bits of code and report to you when I'm done or when I have questions about it?
[13:38] <niemeyer> mpl: Yeah, the first task is to understand how it works today, so you have an idea of what has to be done
[13:38] <rog> mpl: i suggest you look at the way the python code does its ssh connection, and see if you can replicate that with a local zookeeper instance (started by gozk) and an independent go program, all running on the same machine
[13:39] <rog> niemeyer: that sound reasonable?
[13:39] <niemeyer> mpl: Basically, the zk connection is insecure at the moment, and we use ssh to fix that
[13:39] <niemeyer> rog: +1
[13:40] <mpl> got it, thanks.
[14:50] <niemeyer> Lunch time
[14:50] <niemeyer> biab
[15:39] <jcastro_> marcoceppi: howdy
[15:39] <jcastro_> marcoceppi: I was off on Friday other than the charm school, how's it going?
[15:48] <marcoceppi> jcastro: good
[15:49] <jcastro> marcoceppi: hey so, just so I have the spreadsheet clear, which one are you working on now?
[15:49] <jcastro> phpmyadmin?
[15:49] <jcastro> or did that one get accepted?
[15:50] <marcoceppi> it's just about ready, I need to finish the package based installation: found a few bugs
[15:50] <jcastro> ah awesome
[15:50] <jcastro> any idea what george is working on next?
[15:50] <marcoceppi> Steam is in a holding pattern while I try to get all the game's server configs sorted out. They're not included by default and poorly documented game to game, I've also got Redmine going
[15:50] <marcoceppi> jcastro: no idea
[15:51]  * jcastro nods
[15:51] <jcastro> I see nijaba rocked out limesurvey
[15:51] <marcoceppi> yeah, I gave it a spin over the weekend, it rule
[15:51] <marcoceppi> s
[15:51] <nijaba> jcastro: just keeping my word to you :)
[15:52] <jcastro> nijaba: that's going to be a great charm, it's actually very useful to people and very cloudy ... up when you need it, and then goes away when you don't
[16:11] <SpamapS> seriously.. limesurvey is fun...
[16:11] <SpamapS> I created a survey.. "can you crash this site?" Y/N
[16:11] <SpamapS> was thinking we could give it a shot with a massive scale-out
[16:12]  * SpamapS moves from cold drafty downstairs to overly warm ovenlike upstairs
[16:14] <jimbaker>  SpamapS, you're in LA. how can it be cold? in contrast it's already at a toasty 3 deg F outside
[16:17] <marcoceppi> I noticed something that might be a bug, but I'm not sure. If you do a deploy of mysql charm + charm that requires mysql, add-relation, upgrade non mysql charm, destroy charm that required mysql, deploy again and add-relation MySQL charm doesn't send over the relation information.
[16:20] <marcoceppi> Should MySQL delete the database after a service has broken the relation?
[16:22] <SpamapS> jimbaker: 45F is "cold" here. ;)
[16:22] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: no
[16:22] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: but it should re-set the info
[16:23] <SpamapS>     print "database exists, assuming configuration has happened already"
[16:23] <SpamapS>     sys.exit(0)
[16:23] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: definitely broken
[16:23] <marcoceppi> Okay, so if it detects that the database is already there, it should send over the information again. Seems like that would put a lot of work on the charm to check if database already exists to avoid re-installing it
[16:24] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: honestly, the "db" relation is silly the way it uses the service name for the database.
[16:24] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: puts a lot of restrictions on how you can use the relation
[16:24] <marcoceppi> I think, and I could be wrong - because I understand the use case of keeping the database around, a db-relation-broken should remove the database
[16:25] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: mysql-shared is a more realistic use of mysql
[16:25] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: no, we want to make data cleanup manual
[16:25] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: thats also why machines aren't terminated automatically
[16:25] <marcoceppi> cool, well I'm having issues with db-admin-relation-changed, and I just realized it shouldn't be creating a database in the first place!
[16:25] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: *exactly*
[16:25] <marcoceppi> So my point is moot
[16:25] <marcoceppi> but it's a bug of another color
[16:26] <SpamapS> there's also a bug where the username/password is *always* randomly generated..
[16:26] <SpamapS> so when the relation is broken.. we can't cleanup the users
[16:27] <marcoceppi> I thought MySQL charm stored that data locally for tracking?
[16:28]  * marcoceppi was using an older version of the MySQL charm
[16:29] <SpamapS> user = subprocess.check_output(['pwgen', '-N 1', '15']).strip().split("\n")[0]
[16:29] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: thats in common.py
[16:29] <marcoceppi> Should the charm track user/pass per private IP?
[16:29] <SpamapS> IP?
[16:29] <SpamapS> no
[16:29] <marcoceppi> private host*
[16:30] <SpamapS> 1 service, 1 user, but it can grant that user access from all the addresses of the service
[16:31] <SpamapS> this is something that confused me early on ... you get *one* set of relation data that you can set..
[16:31] <SpamapS> so the mysql unit's relation-set must work for *all* the related units on the other side.
[16:31] <SpamapS> you can't have a user per unit without doing   relation-set wordpress-0-user=foo
[16:31] <SpamapS> then thats pointless because they all get access to it anyway
[16:38] <marcoceppi> So, it's really per service then
[16:38] <marcoceppi> Should the charm store the user/pass info on a per service basis? or does it do that already?
[16:39] <SpamapS> it must actually
[16:39] <SpamapS> but it doesn't right now
[16:40] <marcoceppi> Hum, I suppose plain text storage would be too much to ask for, in regards to security?
[16:40] <marcoceppi> Because that would probably be the easiest
[16:40] <SpamapS> Simplest thing to do is just to put it in files.
[16:40] <SpamapS> we don't have to store the password
[16:40] <SpamapS> just the usernames to clean up
[16:41] <SpamapS> but frankly.. the root PW is stored (and must be).. so.. we don't have much to protect in that manner.
[16:41] <marcoceppi> Oh, I see now. Each unit of a service gets it's own username and password for the services db
[16:42] <SpamapS> no
[16:42] <marcoceppi> Just when I thought I had it
[16:42] <SpamapS> each service gets a username and password
[16:42] <marcoceppi> Where is that tracked then? Bootstrap?
[16:42] <SpamapS> where is what tracked?
[16:42] <marcoceppi> The username and password.
[16:43] <SpamapS> in the relation settings
[16:44] <marcoceppi> If it's tracked in the relation settings, why can't the charm just pull the username from that when relation is broken and do a clean up then?
[16:44]  * marcoceppi is poking in areas he doesn't quite understand
[16:49] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: because the way broken is triggered is the relation settings node is deleted from zookeeper ;)
[16:49] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: which is, I think, a bug. ;)
[16:49] <marcoceppi> ah :)
[16:49] <SpamapS> bug #791042 to be exact
[16:50] <_mup_> Bug #791042: *-relation-broken has no way to identify which remote service is being broken <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/791042 >
[16:50] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: you're going through the same questions I did .. so.. if nothing else you're helping me feel less like an A-hole for reporting so many bugs ;)
[16:50] <marcoceppi> \o/
[16:55] <mpl> niemeyer: just fixed a little error on there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gozk :)
[16:56] <mpl> SpamapS: what you don't get an "your attention to detail is appreciated" message everytime you open a new bug? :)
[17:00] <SpamapS> Since most of my bugs are "This $@!% is $%#!ing broken %!@ing fix it!" ... no. ;)
[17:02] <niemeyer> mpl: Cheers! :)
[17:02] <mpl> np
[17:23] <hazmat> SpamapS, its not actually deleted, but i'm not sure that its reachable via the cli in that case
[17:26] <SpamapS> hazmat: good to know :)
[17:48] <fwereade> gn all :)
[17:48] <koolhead17> :P
[17:48] <koolhead17> SpamapS: sir
[17:49] <SpamapS> koolhead17: aye?
[17:58] <mpl> niemeyer: I get a weird behaviour with that gozk example on the wiki. the first error check passes, but then I never get passed event := <-session and I continuously get messages such as this one:
[17:58] <mpl> 2011-12-05 18:54:51,868:28689(0x7f3c313d0700):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1528: Socket [<IP_ADDRESS>:2181] zk retcode=-7, errno=110(Connection timed out): connection timed out (exceeded timeout by 0ms)
[17:58] <koolhead17> SpamapS: am finally close to running custom cloud image + juju + openstack
[17:58] <mpl> and yes, I have zookeeper running, I can connect to it with zkCli.sh
[17:59] <niemeyer> mpl: Looks like it's trying to connect to the wrong server?
[18:01] <mpl> niemeyer: well, the server is indeed listening on 2181. besides, if that was the case, shouldn't it just fail at the first error check after gozk.Init, instead of filling my term with those messages?
[18:05] <mpl> hmm, wtf zkCli.sh doesn't report any error when there's no server running.
[18:05] <SpamapS> koolhead17: custom cloud image ?
[18:06] <niemeyer> rog: Have we ever done that refactoring so that all errors are sent to event channels, including temporary ones?
[18:06] <niemeyer> mpl: Well, we have tests
[18:06] <niemeyer> mpl: Can you get tests to pass?
[18:07] <rog> niemeyer: off for day. will have a look tomorrow.
[18:07] <jimbaker> fwereade, take care!
[18:07] <koolhead17> SpamapS: i have my openstack inside proxy and in order to get internet on instance i have to modify the cloud image
[18:11] <niemeyer> rog, fwereade: Cheers!
[18:24] <SpamapS> koolhead17: sounds interesting!
[18:30]  * TheMue has to admit that his Python time has been some years ago. Will have to dig a bit into twisted.
[18:33] <mpl> niemeyer: after a bzr pull in gozk, there still is a problem with weekly: retry_test.go:198 it seems err.Error() should be changed to err.String() here. or String() to be changed to Error() in gozk.go
[18:35] <niemeyer> mpl: Crap, I may have missed that
[18:36] <mpl> niemeyer: that said, it seems my default zookeeper env is not really well setup. I'll try and dig further.
[18:40] <jcastro> SpamapS: did you know about this? https://launchpad.net/juju-gui
[18:55] <niemeyer> mpl: There's a lost branch from rog
[18:55] <niemeyer> mpl: Not sure if it'll fix it, but I'll work on getting it merged right now, and make sure it works with weekly
[18:59] <mpl> niemeyer: well, I went the quick route and just changed that one to String() on my end so I could go further.
[18:59] <niemeyer> mpl: Good move
[19:00] <mpl> niemeyer: then the tests fail because default configuration here expects things to be in root only locations, like the log file.
[19:00] <mpl> and I don't run gotest as root.
[19:00] <niemeyer> mpl: Cool, I'm with you.. I'm just finishing merging that branch and solving conflicts, and will then see if there's anything else to address
[19:00] <niemeyer> mpl: Definitely, we never do that
[19:01] <mpl> I'll have to leave in a couple mins to get my food as the local indian though :)
[19:04] <mpl> bbl
[19:14] <niemeyer> mpl: "OK: 39 passed"
[19:15] <_mup_> juju/zookeeper r24 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:15] <_mup_> Merged update-server-interface branch from Roger. [r=niemeyer]
[19:15] <_mup_> This improves the interface used to manage the zookeeper processes.
[19:15] <_mup_> This changeset also includes fixes to get the branch integrated
[19:15] <_mup_> into the current state of trunk.
[19:45] <mpl> niemeyer: thx. I'll retry as soon as I can, and when I have a more suitable zookeeper env setup.
[19:45] <niemeyer> mpl: FWIW, I don't have a special zk env setup
[19:46] <niemeyer> mpl: I'm using packaged zk
[19:46] <mpl> niemeyer: I've aptitude installed it
[19:46] <mpl> and done nothing else more.
[19:46] <niemeyer> mpl: Me too
[19:47] <mpl> hmm
[19:47] <niemeyer> mpl: Are you on Oneiric?
[19:47] <mpl> nope, lynx.
[19:47] <mpl> but I'm on lynx on my other laptop, and I remember the tests passed fine there.
[19:48] <mpl> *laptop as well, ...
[19:48] <SpamapS> Hrm, is it possible that resolved --retry does not work?
[19:49] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/760813/
[19:49] <mpl> anyway, I have a stupid flat tire to fix so I can go to work tomorrow, so ttyl.
[19:49] <SpamapS> Thats what I see in the logs after retrying the db relation
[19:49] <niemeyer> mpl: lynx?
[19:49] <mpl> niemeyer: lucid lynx
[19:49] <niemeyer> mpl: Ah
[19:49] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/760814/
[19:49] <SpamapS> after that
[19:49] <SpamapS> so it didn't really retry the hook that failed
[19:49] <niemeyer> mpl: Yeah, that might be a real issue
[19:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Is that trunk or main?
[19:51] <niemeyer> s/main/universe
[19:51] <SpamapS> 427
[19:51] <SpamapS> so.. basically trunk
[19:51] <SpamapS> 426 actually
[19:51] <SpamapS> ii  juju                    0.5+bzr426-1juju2~preci next generation service orchestration system
[19:52] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Ok, so it's worth checking with hazmat/fwereade
[19:53] <niemeyer> SpamapS: There has been work taking place in that area
[19:53] <SpamapS> I'll try to narrow it to a reproducible test case
[19:53] <SpamapS> But thus far, looks like any hook that errors is not retried
[19:53]  * hazmat checks traceback
[19:54] <hazmat> bug 878462
[19:54] <_mup_> Bug #878462: resolved --retry does not retry the hook <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/878462 >
[20:10] <SpamapS> hazmat: yeah I thought I had run into this before
[20:27] <hazmat> SpamapS, before it was with wrt to non rel hooks
[20:27] <hazmat> SpamapS, it looks like there is  fix for this already in restart-transitions
[20:33] <SpamapS> hazmat: so something in flight right now?
[20:33] <hazmat> SpamapS, yup
[20:33] <SpamapS> cool!
[20:33]  * SpamapS changes topic..
[20:33] <SpamapS> so.. philosophy question here..
[20:34] <SpamapS> mysql has about 450 variables that can be set at various times
[20:34] <SpamapS> some only at startup
[20:34] <SpamapS> some without restart..
[20:34] <SpamapS> I'm of a mind to just expose two things in config.yaml.. "Alternative my.cnf" which would just be your hand-crafted my.cnf .. and "dynamic-global-variables" which would be a set of vars that you want to set.
[20:35] <hazmat> SpamapS, use postgres ;-)
[20:35]  * hazmat wonders if that's a valid answer
[20:35] <SpamapS> Yes, its valid as long as you'd like to spend 2x as much on scaling. ;)
[20:35] <SpamapS> to be fair, you'd have 0.1% more correct data. :)
[20:36] <SpamapS> for these and other numbers, please see "my rear end" which is where I pulled them from. :)
[20:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, those startup values be changed between starts?
[20:36] <SpamapS> Same thing applies to postgresql actually.
[20:36] <hazmat> SpamapS, postgres has a lot less hacks masquerading as config
[20:36] <SpamapS> hazmat: some of them have really strang effects when you change them between restarts... but all of them *can* be changed.
[20:37] <SpamapS> hazmat: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/server-system-variables.html .. which one is more of a hack than slony?
[20:37] <SpamapS> ;)
[20:37] <hazmat> SpamapS, slony is so pre 9.0 ;-)
[20:38] <SpamapS> ok well now that we've gotten the religious argument out of it.. lets *PRETEND* that I said postgres and I was talking about wal log sizes and buffer sizes.
[20:38] <SpamapS> (lets also pretend that postgres's multi-process model can scale beyond 1000 concurrent connections too! ;)
[20:39] <SpamapS> postgres has tons of tunables .. and some things that can't be changed like charsets
[20:39] <SpamapS> so its the same philosophical situation
[20:40] <SpamapS> you have a database, which is tunable. Should we try to model all of them into a giant config.yaml .. or just give admins the tools to set them.
[20:40] <SpamapS> It would be *cooler* if they were in a config.yaml
[20:40] <SpamapS> but more work now, and later when new versions of mysql come out.
[20:42] <elmo> how is this not configuration management?
[20:45] <SpamapS> elmo: it is config management.. we've said all along that config management tools are useful for applying the things that one has told juju about.
[20:46] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yes, they should be go into config.yaml over time.. is there any disagreement there?
[20:46] <SpamapS> If puppet already has a module for building my.cnf with all the settings specified or not.. I'll gladly steal that for the charm.
[20:47] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I'm asking philosophically, do we want to just let people specify their own my.cnf or build the my.cnf for them from the individual settings.
[20:47] <niemeyer> hazmat: It'd be nice to get the latest agreement in terms of the subordinate spec committed onto the documentation as a draft
[20:48] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I'm personally fine with whatever people are happiest with, but my gut feeling is that independent options are nicer to work with
[20:50] <SpamapS> niemeyer: Ok well there's another way to look at it which is to have some higher level options, like 'dataset_size' or 'transaction_safety' which adjust several options based on best practices.
[20:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Maybe.. having conflicting options has implications, though
[20:51] <SpamapS> niemeyer: specific overrides general is typically how I'd handle that.
[20:52] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sure, but it's not clear what's specific and what's general
[20:53] <SpamapS> so "dataset_size=99G" is general.. "innodb_buffer_pool_size=3915852021" is general
[20:53] <SpamapS> err
[20:53] <SpamapS> specific
[20:53] <SpamapS> :-P
[20:53] <niemeyer> SpamapS: If one sets two conflicting options, one of them will win, and it's not clear what's what
[20:54] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Not advocating against it, but just recognizing that there are cognitive challenges there
[20:54] <SpamapS> sure it is.. if I set both of those, I'd fully expect innodb_buffer_pool_size to win even if normally dataset_size wins.. I'd also log a warning.. "dataset_size ignored for innodb_buffer_pool_size"
[20:55] <SpamapS> The moment where I start doing individual variables is where I stop trusting the general settings to do anything for me.
[20:55] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Me, on the other hand, being a postgres newbie, would be completely puzzled
[20:55] <SpamapS> well why are you setting a specific variable if you're a noob?
[20:55] <niemeyer> SpamapS: That's what I mean.. you're taking the stance of having full understanding of what's going on and expecting others to be equally informed. Doesn't work in practice.
[20:56] <SpamapS> Ok not sure where I took a stance. My suggestion is that we make config.yaml comprised of big easy knobs for newbies, and tiny intricate knobs for the experts
[20:57] <niemeyer> SpamapS: and my suggestion is to use caution while doing that, because setting conflicting options blindly confuses people
[20:57] <SpamapS> Yeah, I think we'd have to have it document in the description which variables it was setting.
[20:58] <SpamapS> "Changes query_cache_size, innodb_buffer_pool_size, etc. etc."
[20:58] <niemeyer> SpamapS: There are other things that may be done, such as using appropriate naming that gives hints
[20:58] <SpamapS> override_* for the variables might help
[20:59] <SpamapS> like... set dataset-size=99G override-innodb-buffer-pool-size=500G seems clear to me that I'm overriding that one variable.
[20:59] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, or the other side, wizard_*..
[20:59] <marcoceppi> IMO the charm should set those depending on the size of the instance it;s on
[20:59] <niemeyer> s/_/-/
[20:59] <marcoceppi> It's more hardware dependent then anything else
[20:59] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: you don't necessarily have permission to take all the resources on the instance you're on.
[20:59] <SpamapS> for LXC, that would be disaster. :)
[21:00] <SpamapS> they all say they have 4G, because my laptop has 4G
[21:00] <marcoceppi> blurg
[21:00] <hazmat> i wonder if they would say that if we where using the mem cgroup
[21:00] <hazmat> probably
[21:00] <SpamapS> probably just a bug in the /proc wrapping
[21:01] <SpamapS> but thats beside the point
[21:01] <SpamapS> Even on a bare instance.. with subordination.. you don't know how much RAM to leave for instrumentation/extra stuff
[21:02] <SpamapS> I think we should strive for charms to have defaults that work best on m1.small .. and people can tune-up from there. Eventually maybe we will be able to have config settings that default to '2*constraint(mem)'
[21:02] <SpamapS> or, I suppose better would be contraint(mem)/2 ;-)
[21:03] <SpamapS> Ok for mysql I'll just expose general-dataset-size and general-query-cache-mode .. if people want to set more, they can add them as needed I suppose.
[21:04] <SpamapS> (though that gets back to the whole question of how do I fork and switch my deployed service to my local charm)
[21:06] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. we'll need to be able to upgrade across repos to support that
[21:07] <hazmat> we've effectively said specifying a --repository doesn't affect the lookup order..
[21:07] <hazmat> which is problematic when your trying to say which repository to use
[21:07] <SpamapS> I think it has to be an explicit decision
[21:07] <SpamapS> "I was using that charm identifier, now please start using this one"
[21:07] <hazmat> i guess you do so via a fully qualified reference
[21:07] <SpamapS> upgrade-charm doesn't take a charm name, it takes a service name
[21:08] <hazmat> juju upgrade --using=cs:~fewbar/mysql database
[21:08] <SpamapS> seems like thats not an "upgrade" .. more of a switch or change
[21:09] <SpamapS> More of a psychological problem :)
[21:18] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Agreed.. it should be its own internal command, even if we implement it internally as mostly the same
[21:19] <niemeyer> s/internal command/command
[21:19] <niemeyer> juju replace database cs:~fewbar/mysql
[21:20] <niemeyer> Or some such
[22:50] <_mup_> Bug #900517 was filed: config-get on an int set to 0 does not return '0' but an empty string <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/900517 >
[22:56]  * SpamapS commits config.yaml for memcached
[23:15] <negronjl> m_3_: ping
[23:43] <hazmat> jimbaker, i think forget how tricky/messy this sshclient/forward code was
[23:44] <jimbaker> hazmat, i tried rewriting that code twice, so i agree with that!
[23:46] <jimbaker> i figured a rewrite might help understand why i was getting that strange behavior seen in bug 892254, but unfortunately it was too big of a hole, so i punted
[23:46] <_mup_> Bug #892254: SSHClient does not properly handle txzookeeper connection errors <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/892254 >
[23:47] <jimbaker> hazmat, it would be worth fixing test_share_connection if you end up fixing sshclient
[23:53] <Ryan_Lane> m_3_: last week we upgraded from cactus to diablo, if you guys would like to try things out again :)
[23:54] <mpl> I had to deal with that stupid flat tire, so I couldn't pursue that further. I'll retry tomorrow. especially since I'll have my other machine, on which I believe the tests pass. See you tomorrow.


[00:48] <TheMuso> 5~/c
[01:07] <bdrung> bdmurray: have you played with sponsor-patch?
[01:15] <bdrung> bdmurray: thanks for fixing one TODO. i have added two new TODOs. :)
[03:30] <bdmurray> bdrung: I haven't played with it was looking at the patch / debdiff stuff like we'd talked about
[04:05] <hamish> can anyone recommend an IDE for PostgreSQL on Ubuntu?
[04:45] <hamish> can anyone recommend an IDE for PostgreSQL on Ubuntu?
[06:21] <glick> hey excuse me is there any reason why lucid is using such an old version of mod_wsgi 2.8 when 3.3 is long out?
[06:23] <micahg> glick: it might not have been packaged in time, maverick has 3.2-2
[06:23] <glick> micahg, the maverick repos?
[06:23] <micahg> glick: yes
[06:23] <micahg> bzr diff
[06:23] <micahg> oops
[06:25] <nigelb> heh
[06:26] <glick> is there a tutorial on how to add the maverick repos i did a goog search and cant see anything
[06:27] <nigelb> you probably can't just add and use
[06:27] <glick> oh
[06:27] <glick> is it difficult to make a deb from the source?
[06:30] <nigelb> not really.
[06:30] <nigelb> Get the source and rebuild, I'm trying to figure out how to build it without pbuilder.
[06:31] <nigelb> But it may fail horribly depending on the versions of the depends....
[06:43] <glick> can i just install it via the install script?
[06:43] <glick> do i have to use .deb?
[06:46] <nigelb> you can install it via the script, but then uninstalling would be kinda tough.
[06:47] <nigelb> I wish I had the docs handy here.
[07:25] <pitti> Good morning
[07:37] <\sh> pitti: good morning to you too :)
[07:51] <dholbach> good morning
[07:56] <pitti> hey \sh, how are you?
[07:56] <pitti> dholbach: guten Morgen
[07:56] <dholbach> hey pitti
[07:56] <\sh> pitti: fine :) but fighting with some strange problems regarding glibc, passwd, crypt and ldap ;)
[07:57] <\sh> moins dholbach
[07:57] <dholbach> heya \sh
[07:57] <siretart> einen wunderschoenen guten morgen zusammen! (or english: good morning) :-)
[07:57] <\sh> hey siretart :)
[07:58] <siretart> hi \sh
[07:58] <micahg> hi \sh
[07:58] <\sh> moins micahg :)
[07:59] <\sh> guys, when someone has a solution to this problem I described on http://www.shermann.name/2010/08/openldap-passwd-and-crypt-passwords.html don't hesitate to come up with a solution ;)
[08:12] <micahg> pitti: thanks for enigmail-locales, I almost forgot about it too
[10:26] <bigon> slomo, any reason git file for libgee has been removed from debian? do you think you could put the same pkg as in maverick in experimental?
[10:27] <bigon> s/git/gir
[11:38] <\sh> directhex: the solution you mentioned doesn't work somehow, or I put the attributes in the wrong cn=config schema
[12:13] <directhex> \sh, it's a global i think. should just go somewhere inoffensive in slapd.conf
[12:13] <\sh> directhex: I don't have slapd.conf , using cn=config schema..which means the olcPasswordCryptSaltFormat goes into global cn=config and the olcPasswordHash goes to cn={-1}frontend,cn=config
[12:15] <directhex> erk
[12:15] <directhex> can't help with that kind of config, i'm afraid
[12:38] <\sh> directhex: fixed...the ldap.conf on the client needs a setting in ldap.conf: pam_password exop
[12:38] <\sh> then it works with the passwordhash and passwordcryptsaltsyntax
[12:39] <directhex> \sh, oh, i didn't think about the client config
[12:39] <directhex> \sh, glad you got it working, though
[12:39] <\sh> directhex: me neither :) just had a quick chat with someone on #openldap
[12:39] <\sh> I'll blog about the solution
[12:40] <directhex> \sh, as long as their first response wasn't "you did WHAT? what idiot suggested that?"
[12:41] <\sh> directhex: well...
[14:14] <cjwatson> JFo: Following up on our discussion at the sprint, how did your collation of the kernel bugs associated with GRUB setting gfxpayload=keep go?  Is there a mailing list thread I can catch up on or anything?
[14:15] <JFo> cjwatson, honestly I think I must have let that fall off my radar.
[14:16] <JFo> let me catch up on it and get back with you.
[14:16] <JFo> my sincere apologies for that
[14:17] <JFo> cjwatson, was that on a blueprint somewhere? I found at least one that I was not subscribed to
[14:17] <cjwatson> JFo: foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer
[14:17] <JFo> excellent
[14:17]  * JFo pulls it up
[14:17] <cjwatson> I think we may end up backing it out for beta
[14:17] <JFo> I think so.
[14:17] <cjwatson> but I'd really like to see the kernel side of it make progress anyway so that we can turn it on next release
[14:18] <cjwatson> (and it's easy to flip the switch back and forward for testing)
[14:18] <JFo> certainly
[14:18] <JFo> I'll do some of the legwork now and get back with you so we can plan for UDS at least
[14:19] <cjwatson> thanks
[14:19] <JFo> my pleasure
[14:19] <JFo> I apologize again
[14:25] <penguin42> cjwatson: That <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1 iscsitarget works great - thanks
[14:25] <cjwatson> cool
[14:26] <cnd> I've heard that dbgsym packages can be generated in ppas now
[14:26] <cnd> if so, anyone know how to do that?
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> cnd - build-depend on pkg-create-dbgsym?
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> not sure how else to do it for PPAs, unless something changed
[14:32] <cnd> chrisccoulson, oh ok
[14:32] <cnd> is that documented somewhere?
[15:11] <cjwatson> chrisccoulson: I have no straightforward way to test this, but do you think that something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/480968/ could fix bug 544139?
[15:13] <cjwatson> robbiew: perhaps bug 605042 should be regarded as a Linaro bug?
[15:13] <cjwatson> doko_: is anything happening with bug 601030?
[15:14] <cjwatson> slangasek: do you know what's happening with bug 553745?
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> cjwatson - yeah, that would probably fix it
[15:15] <cjwatson> chrisccoulson: I might stick it in a PPA or something and see what happens
[15:15] <robbiew> cjwatson: aye
[15:16] <robbiew> cjwatson: removed 605042 from the agenda
[15:16] <cjwatson> ta
[15:19] <pitti> smb: can you please make bug 614426 public? It's referenced by the lbm SRU
[15:21] <smb> pitti, Hm, I don't see much reason to keep it private, but I need to ask support guys
[15:27] <ogra> seb128, would it be possibel to fix bug 607709
[15:38] <seb128> ogra: I don't even understand why things upstream let in the tarball is an issue, we probably have some of those in lot of sources
[15:39] <seb128> ogra: oh sorry I was thinking to an another one
[15:39] <seb128> ogra: well the tarball is the upstream one
[15:40] <seb128> ogra: I've asked to report the bug to upstream, nobody did
[15:40] <seb128> ogra: it will be fixed the day somebody cares enough to do what was suggested there
[15:43] <ogra_cmpc> seb128, ok, i'll care for upstreaming
[15:43] <ogra_cmpc> (oempa4 really needs these files in maverick)
[15:43] <ogra_cmpc> *omap4
[15:44] <seb128> ogra_cmpc, thanks
[15:44] <seb128> ogra_cmpc, upstream might have a reason for not shipping those
[15:44] <seb128> ogra_cmpc, I've also difficulties to understand why those are needed since it builds fine without them
[15:44] <ogra_cmpc> might be, but wuld we be able to ship them in a patch if upstream doesnt make it in time ?
[15:45] <ogra_cmpc> the subsequent omap4 modules and codecs make use of these files apparently
[15:46] <seb128> ogra_cmpc, I'm fine adding those, I just want somebody to talk to upstream to know why they don't ship them
[15:46] <seb128> could be legal reasons, could be an error, could be because the code is buggy
[15:47] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[15:47] <seb128> ogra_cmpc, thanks for understanding ;-)
[15:47] <ogra_cmpc> thanks for explaining :)
[15:47]  * ogra_cmpc hugs seb128
[15:47]  * seb128 hugs ogra_cmpc
[15:50] <smb> pitti, Seems we cannot make that bug public and I need to re-upload lbm with a new public bug number for it
[15:57] <Riddell> dyfet: I don't suppose you've got anywhere with the kdebindings issue?
[15:57] <dyfet> Riddell: I am discussing right now with NCommander.  It has become a python-qt4 build issue at the moment
[16:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: 553745> no; my understanding was that although plymouth still has bugs there, the mountall change would render them inert
[16:05] <robbiew> pitti: ping
[16:06] <cjwatson> slangasek: the one that's already happened?  I would have thought it would mainly decrease the incidence
[16:08] <slangasek> cjwatson: well - my expectation was that it decreased it to zero.  But if it's still happening, it should of course be a priority to fix
[16:14] <asac> kees: you did the MIRs for touch stuff already?
[16:15] <asac> that clearly would make my day ;)
[16:15] <kees> asac: I did! at least the three mentioned yesterday
[16:15]  * asac hugs kees
[16:16] <cjwatson> slangasek: the assertion towards the end of the bug is that it's still happening occasionally, yes
[16:16] <cjwatson> slangasek: but there's little detail, so I don't know whether it's the same thing
[16:17]  * kees hugs asac back :)
[16:17] <NCommander> Riddell: its not a python-qt4 issue. Its a cmake file issue. http://paste.ubuntu.com/480989/ - here's the patch that allows pykde4 to build. Smoke still FTBFS
[16:17] <slangasek> cjwatson: <nod>
[16:25] <pitti> robbiew: hello
[16:26] <robbiew> pitti: hi :)
[16:26] <robbiew> pitti: I had a ToDo from last week's release meeting
[16:26] <robbiew> slangasek wanted to know if the SRU tracker could spit out a warning about significant size increases in packages in main
[16:28] <pitti> robbiew: I wrote a script for comparing the package size deltas of two (alternate) isos
[16:28] <pitti> robbiew: do we need that for LTS point releases? then it's already there
[16:28] <robbiew> slangasek: ^?
[16:29] <slangasek> pitti: what I think we want is a warning about size increases of packages *before* we start trying to turn them into ISOs
[16:29] <slangasek> by the time we did that for this round, it was too late
[16:30] <robbiew> how would we define "significant size increase"?
[16:30] <pitti> it shouldn't be too hard to adopt the logics of iso-deb-size-compare to compare *-updates against final
[16:30] <pitti> robbiew: iso-deb-size-compare lists added packages, removed packages, and size differences of > 100 kB
[16:31] <pitti> well, size increases (we don't generally complain about decreases)
[16:31] <slangasek> pitti: hmm, so you reinvented cd-size-analysis on antimony? :)
[16:31] <pitti> but I guess for SRUs we shoudl actually list decreases as well, they are probably a bug
[16:31] <pitti> slangasek: I couldn't get that to work for the life of it
[16:32] <slangasek> pitti: regardless, as I said, this is something I think we need to be aware of in the SRU process, not just when we're to the point of creating ISOs
[16:32] <pitti> right, understood
[16:32] <pitti> it could become part of sru-report
[16:32] <slangasek> robbiew: "significant size increase" - more than 5%, or more than 300k increase across the set of binary packages
[16:32] <slangasek> maybe filtered by seed
[16:34] <pitti> slangasek: I guess for all packages in *-proposed and *-updates should do for now; it's not that many usually
[16:34] <pitti> but we could add the component indeed
[16:34] <pitti> oh, "... in main"
[16:40] <slangasek> robbiew: btw, I'm hesitant to approve this last message to ubuntu-announce...  I'm worried that we're no longer meeting the expectations of this being a "low volume" list
[16:40] <robbiew> slangasek: hmm...fair enough...I'll copy ubuntu-devel
[16:56] <smb> pitti, FWIW I am now done adding new stuff to the sru upload queue
[17:58] <goldins> Hello, I hope this is not off-topic but I'm confused as to whether the issue I'm having with the new openssh (5.5) smartcard support is my fault or ubuntu's fault. The output says "dlopen pkcs11 failed: /usr/lib/pkcs11: cannot read file data: Is a directory" when I run ssh -I pkcs11
[17:59] <goldins> (I'm running maverick)
[18:04] <cjwatson> goldins: one moment
[18:04] <goldins> cjwatson: it's cool, I can wait
[18:05] <cjwatson> goldins: your -I option is certainly wrong - it's meant to be a path to a library
[18:05] <cjwatson> goldins: does http://www.opensc-project.org/opensc/wiki/OpenSSH help?
[18:05] <cjwatson> the syntax has changed from earlier unofficial patches against OpenSSH
[18:06] <cjwatson> if you aren't using OpenSC, presumably you have some other PKCS#11 provider, in which case you need to provide the full path to its .sos
[18:06] <cjwatson> er, .so
[18:06] <goldins> cjwatson: it seems that if I move the directory out of the way and create a link instead to opencryptoki/libopencryptoki.so.0.0.0, I get a different error
[18:07] <cjwatson> you shouldn't move files around there; you should provide a different argument to -I instead
[18:07] <goldins> cjwatson: if that's the case, then ssh without arguments shouldn't say this: [-I pkcs11]  among other things
[18:07] <cjwatson> pkcs11 is a substitution variable there
[18:07] <goldins> I see
[18:07] <cjwatson> just like -p port
[18:07] <cjwatson> you aren't meant to literally type port there
[18:07] <goldins> I suppose :-P
[18:08] <cjwatson> the man page is more helpful
[18:08] <cjwatson>      -I pkcs11
[18:08] <cjwatson>              Specify the PKCS#11 shared library ssh should use to communicate
[18:08] <cjwatson>              with a PKCS#11 token providing the user's private RSA key.
[18:08] <goldins> also, /usr/lib/pkcs11/PKCS11_API.so is a dead link to ../opencryptoki/libopencryptoki.so but I think that's addressed in this bug:
[18:09] <cjwatson> mm, I don't know anything about the specific implementations, only about the OpenSSH end of it
[18:09] <goldins> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencryptoki/+bug/237392
[18:10] <cjwatson> yeah, that's a bug, it will probably work if you install libopencryptoki-dev
[18:11] <cjwatson> but in the meantime I guess you can just say 'ssh -I ./usr/lib/opencryptoki/libopencryptoki.so.0.0.0'
[18:11] <cjwatson> er, 'ssh -I /usr/lib/opencryptoki/libopencryptoki.so.0.0.0', stray '.'
[18:13] <cjwatson> and you can put the provider path in PKCS11Provider in ~/.ssh/config once it works
[18:17] <goldins> cjwatson: it seems to work with /usr/lib/opensc-pkcs11.so thank you very much
[18:19] <cjwatson> goldins: you're welcome
[18:30] <SpamapS> ugh, why do I always seem to get changelog merging wrong? :-P
[18:30] <slangasek> Riddell: re: qt4-qws - I had a good chat with svuorela yesterday on IRC; the ABI breakage isn't as bad as all that (it really is confined to the GUI components), I'm going to put together a proof-of-concept build that only rebuilds the really-truly-incompatible bits and see what that does for build time
[18:31] <slangasek> SpamapS: because MoM is the only tool that actually helps with this? :)
[18:31] <Riddell> slangasek: you want to talk to alf and asac mostly, it's their package
[18:32] <slangasek> Riddell: well, if I prove that the build overhead is small and I'm arguing to put it in qt4-x11, that impacts *your* package :)
[18:32] <SpamapS> slangasek: bzr needs a "changelog mode"
[18:33] <SpamapS> that treats each block as its own immutable entity
[18:33] <Riddell> slangasek: mm
[18:33] <slangasek> SpamapS: recent bzr merge-package's that I've done seem to have totally mangled the debian/changelog... so maybe it already has one but it's not very good :)
[18:34] <SpamapS> slangasek: we should probably go easy on james_w .. I think he's actually found a way to work 25 hours a day.
[18:35] <james_w> slangasek: please file bugs
[18:35] <james_w> it does indeed have one and we should improve it :-)
[18:36] <slangasek> james_w: next time I reproduce it, I will :)
[18:36] <james_w> thanks
[18:38] <slangasek> james_w: rough description (from memory) of what I was seeing: all the changelog entries were reordered into strict version order, including those that were already present on both branches and listed in the order we wanted them.  Sound familiar at all?
[18:38] <james_w> slangasek: sounds plausible
[18:38] <slangasek> k
[18:41] <tumbleweed> SpamapS: err, changelog merging? merge-changelog debian/changelog ../ubuntu/debian/changelog | sponge debian/changelog <- normally does the trick
[18:49] <SpamapS> tumbleweed: whoa.. thats two commands I don't know anything about. merge-changelog and sponge... will do some reading
[18:49] <tumbleweed> sponge is in moreutils (which is full of awesome), merge-changelog in ubuntu-dev-tools
[18:50] <slangasek> hmm, why has merge-changelog not been submitted to devscripts?
[18:51] <tumbleweed> SpamapS: if you are manually MoMing, I have a script that uses UDD (grab-udd-merge ubuntu-dev-tools branch)
[18:53] <SpamapS> tumbleweed: in this case it was just a superceded version in a merge proposal.. but I've definitely fought with MoM'ing too.
[18:54] <cjwatson> or dpkg-mergechangelogs
[18:54] <cjwatson> would be better to improve that since that's about as central as we're going to get
[18:54] <SpamapS> ah ok, so there is some help available.
[18:55] <cjwatson> might be worth extending dpkg-mergechangelogs to be able to work without a base version
[18:59] <slangasek> cjwatson: y'know, I knew dpkg-mergechangelogs was being created, but I kept failing to find it every time I looked for it... looks like it's finally made it into dpkg-dev, hurray :)
[20:36] <Guest77779> Hallo. Mir ist unter Ubuntu 10 das Tray-Icon für die Lautstärkeregelung entschwunden. Ich schaffe es einfach nicht, dieses wieder dort auftauchen zu lassen. Was muss ich tun?
[20:39] <sistpoty> Guest77779: Stelle Deine Frage bitte in #ubuntu-de, das hier ist der Channel fuer Ubuntu-Entwicklung
[20:40] <Guest77779> Oh, entschuldigung. Dachte, ich befinde mich dort.
[20:40] <Guest77779> Gute Nacht.
[20:40] <sistpoty> kein Problem, gute Nacht
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> Ok, maybe someone can help me here.  I'm trying to get fix a FTBFS in folks.  I get an error of Couldn't find include 'Gee-1.0.gir' (search path: ['.', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0'])
[20:43] <bcurtiswx> which is here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgee/0.5.2-1ubuntu2
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> in gir1.0-gee-1.0
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> but, when adding that to build-dep in folks it says its a virtual package
[20:45] <bcurtiswx> i already have libgee-dev as a dep, and still get that error
[21:09] <eax> Hi there - Is it possible to try out the new Unity-shell somehow? Not sure if this is the right channel, if not; Sorry!
[21:20] <directhex> eax-afk, try #ubuntu
[21:20] <eax-afk> directhex: Will do, thanks :)
[21:30] <mathiaz> jdstrand: hi!
[21:30] <mathiaz> jdstrand: could you demote migrationtools and traceroute to universe?
[21:31] <mathiaz> jdstrand: they already show up in component-mismatch.txt
[21:32] <jdstrand> mathiaz: sure, but traceroute in universe seems odd...
[21:32] <mathiaz> jdstrand: IIUC tracepath is a better alternative
[21:34] <jdstrand> mathiaz: maybe, but I would never think to type 'tracepath'
[21:34] <jdstrand> mathiaz: regardless of my thoughts, done
[21:34] <mathiaz> jdstrand: thanks!
[21:42] <SpamapS> mathiaz: well at least *something* got demoted. :)
[21:47] <barry> james_w: you don't happen to still be online do you?
[21:48] <james_w> barry: mais oui
[21:49] <barry> james_w: so, i'm seeing something that i don't understand.  i'm working on python-numpy.  we have 1.3-mumble in maverick, squeeze has 1.4-mumble.  i go to a branch of lp:ubuntu/python-numpy and do 'bzr merge-package lp:debian/squeeze/python-numpy'.  the branch now contains numpy 1.4-mumble...
[21:50] <barry> james_w: dch -i and add 1:1.4.1-4ubuntu1 (or ...4ubuntu1ppa0) and change from unstable to maverick.  the bzr bd -S
[21:51] <barry> james_w: this produces both an orig.tar.gz and a debian.tar.gz, but only the debian.tar.gz gets dput'd to my ppa, and ppa rejects it because it can't find the orig.tar.gz.  what gives?
[21:52] <james_w> barry: so, there is an optimisation in packaging that you don't have to provide the .orig.tar.gz if the target already has it
[21:52] <james_w> barry: and there is a convention around version numbers that you start at -1 and work your way up from there
[21:53] <james_w> barry: so dpkg-buildpackage has a heuristic that says "if the debian revision is greater than -1 then the target should already have it" and so omits the .orig.tar.gz
[21:53] <james_w> barry: if you just have Debian then that works great
[21:53] <barry> james_w: ;}
[21:53] <james_w> barry: but once you introduce Ubuntu you hit the case you just have, and it falls down
[21:54] <james_w> barry: so you have to tell dpkg-buildpackage that you want the .orig.tar.gz with -sa
[21:54] <barry> james_w: so: bzr bd -S -- -sa ?
[21:54] <james_w> barry: plus, as you are merging you should get it to include the Debian changes in the .changes, as they are new to Ubuntu.
[21:55] <james_w> barry: to do that, find the last version number in Ubuntu, and pass -v<version> (no space)
[21:55] <james_w> barry: and yes, that is how you would pass it
[21:55] <barry> james_w: i understand all the above except the part about "Debian changes in the .changes"
[21:55] <james_w> barry: ...at least it would be if I didn't anticipate your every need and upload just the other day a version of bzr-builddeb that can automate this
[21:55] <james_w> barry: so it is now spelt "bzr bd -S --package-merge"
[21:56] <james_w> barry: have a look at the source.changes you just uploaded that got rejected
[21:56] <james_w> barry: in the middle there is an extract from the changelog with your "  * Merge from Debian squeeze [etc.]" lines
[21:57] <james_w> barry: now build again with the --package-merge and look, and you will see your lines, but in addition below that lines that come from the Debian uploads that happened since we last merged.
[21:57] <james_w> barry: these extra lines will get mailed around as the changes in this package, which is more correct than the changes in just your merge changelog entry
[21:57] <james_w> make sense?
[21:57] <tumbleweed> barry: the current version of python-numpy in ubuntu has no ubuntu delta. Can we not just sync?
[21:58] <barry> james_w: it does, yes
[21:58] <james_w> excellent
[21:58] <barry> tumbleweed: yes, i think so.  there's an open bug on that, but doko hasn't approved it yet.  or let's say there's still some discussion about it
[21:59] <tumbleweed> oh right, yes I saw that bug
[21:59] <barry> james_w: one more question: after the debian merge, do i still need to bump the version number, i.e. dch -i?
[22:00] <james_w> barry: yes, if I understand you correctly.
[22:00] <tumbleweed> barry: yes
[22:00] <james_w> you mean "after bzr merge-package lp:debian/..." run "dch -i" ?
[22:00] <barry> james_w: yep
[22:00] <james_w> then yes you do
[22:00] <barry> it makes sense, i just needed some confirmation ;)
[22:00] <james_w> we need a changelog entry different from the Debian ones
[22:00] <james_w> barry: feel free to file a bug requesting an option to merge-package to do that for you
[22:01] <barry> james_w: thanks again for the great info.  i'll make sure to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/Merging
[22:01] <james_w> thanks
[22:01] <barry> james_w: will do, thanks again
[22:01] <james_w> the "--package-merge" is new in maverick, so you might want to note that
[22:02] <ScottK> jcastro: Since you've marked finding a place for DDs to ask for sync requests as done in the spec ....  What's the place?
[22:02] <jcastro> ScottK: -archive, I updated the sync request wiki page too
[22:02] <barry> james_w: nod
[22:03] <jcastro> ScottK: with "If you do not have a Launchpad account you can mail the ubuntu archive mailing list."
[22:03] <jcastro> with a link to the list
[22:03] <ScottK> jcastro: My read of the discussion was some of the archive admins pushed back on that.
[22:03] <ScottK> slangasek: ^^^
[22:03] <jcastro> my read on that was "oh I guess we need to do a better job of telling people that"
[22:03] <jcastro> ScottK: but whatever you guys decide is fine with me
[22:03] <ScottK> jcastro: Unless someone is going to actively deal with sync requests sent to that list, it's going to be a point of frustration.
[22:04] <nigelb> ScottK: Or a script.
[22:04] <ScottK> IIRC my question about who would do that got no response.
[22:04] <ScottK> nigelb: Someone would still have to run such a script.
[22:04] <ScottK> (not to mention write it)
[22:05] <james_w> do people realise that -archive is moderated, with non-subscribers being held for moderation?
[22:05] <james_w> and that no-one would want to subscribe to the list?
[22:05] <nigelb> ok, that's double pain.
[22:05] <nigelb> somone has to moderate *and* process the queue
[22:05] <ScottK> Since one can't assume all DD's keep track of where we are in freezes, they can't just be cargo culted, they have to be reviewed by someone who knows what they are doing.
[22:06] <ScottK> jcastro: I don't think this one is solved.
[22:06] <jcastro> yargh.
[22:07] <jcastro> the lp sync requests end up going in there
[22:07] <jcastro> why is the list moderated?
[22:08] <jcastro> do the archive admins have regular meetings? It would be nice to just solve this
[22:08] <ScottK> Nope.
[22:08] <ScottK> List is moderated like pretty much all Ubuntu lists are moderated.
[22:09] <nigelb> with only LP being white listed I think
[22:09] <slangasek> jcastro: well, my position is that ubuntu-archive is not a list that I want to be subscribed to and would only subscribe to if it was made a policy for archive admins, which it has not yet :)
[22:09] <ScottK> jcastro: I'd suggest any solution that ends up requiring more archive admin work to process these into syncs isn't the right answer.  Where they should land is in something like a sponsor queue.
[22:09] <ScottK> slangasek: +1
[22:11] <jcastro> would it be ok if I just say "hey, you guys are the archive admins, you figure it out, but please do it by X date"
[22:11] <ScottK> jcastro: My response would be "They should file bugs and have them reviewed by sponsors.  Done."
[22:11] <jcastro> right, but this is for people who don't have LP accounts
[22:12] <ScottK> Right, I don't think that's the archive administrator's problem to solve.
[22:12] <jcastro> from what lucas told me there were quite a few people he talked to in Debian that would like to be able to just mail a list
[22:12] <ScottK> Yes.  I understand and agree with the goal.  I just don't think ubuntu-archive is the right list and I don't think the archive admins can/should be the ones to solve it.
[22:13] <jcastro> ok, I think what I'll do is when I return from vacation if the matter isn't solved I'll POSTPONE the item and we can bring it up during the debian session at UDS.
[22:13] <bcurtiswx> hey all, i've fixed a FTBFS with folks.  I've tested the fixes in pbuilder and it works.  What to do next to get the fixes into main?
[22:14] <bcurtiswx> empathy's waiting on LP for this fix
[22:15] <ScottK> jcastro: I don't think it needs to be in the Debian/Ubuntu session.  Ubuntu just needs to solve it.  Have a nice vacation.
[22:16] <jcastro> I'll just shove you all in a room and lock the door until you solve it, heh
[22:17] <sistpoty> bcurtiswx: create a debdiff, add it to a bug (file one if it's not there yet) and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[22:18] <bcurtiswx> sistpoty: OK, brb
[22:29] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/614039 => can somebody set priority on this ? seems like ALOT of people are having this issue
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, somebody needs to ask for a proper backtrace (whilst running g-p-m with the --sync option). without that, it's prtty much useless
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> and preferably run it through xtrace too
[22:36] <dupondje> chrisccoulson: what you need exactly ? I have this issue, so can simulate this :)
[22:37] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, please get a backtrace from g-p-m when running it with --sync :)
[22:37] <dupondje> it says it made a coredump, but can't find it :s
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> i suspect it hasn't made a coredump, because we set the core size to zero ;)
[22:40] <dupondje> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/481151/
[22:40] <dupondje> ok ? :)
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, you don't have any debug symbols
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> 1 second, just trying to work out which ones you need
[22:42] <dupondje> libglib2.0-0-dbg ?
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> gnome-power-manager-dbgsym libglib2.0-0-dbg libx11-6-dbg
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> and
[22:42] <dupondje> gnome-power-manager-dbgsym doesn't exist ... :)
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash ;)
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> you also need libxrandr2-dbg (or dbgsym)
[22:45] <dupondje> its comming :D
[22:45] <bcurtiswx> sistpoty: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/folks/+bug/621423 done :D
[22:45] <dupondje> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/481154/
[22:46] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, which driver is this?
[22:46] <dupondje> nouveau
[22:48] <sistpoty> bcurtiswx: looks good from a glimpse, thanks!
[22:48] <bcurtiswx> sistpoty: np, ty :)
[22:51] <dupondje> chrisccoulson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/481159/
[22:51] <dupondje> installed gdk2 dbg also :)
[22:51] <dupondje> some additional info now
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> dupondje, if you run gnome-power-manager --verbose, do you see "no XRANDR extension"
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> ?
[23:02] <dupondje> http://paste.ubuntu.com/481166/
[23:02] <dupondje> seems not
[23:02] <dupondje> oh yea
[23:02] <dupondje> TI:00:01:53	TH:0x22950a0	FI:gpm-brightness.c	FN:gpm_brightness_init,928
[23:02] <dupondje>  - no XRANDR extension
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> ok, i can see whats going on
[23:07] <dupondje> great :)
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> not sure if i'll fix it tonight though, i'm in the middle of something else (and it's getting late here)
[23:09] <dupondje> well as long it gets fixed :)
[23:10] <dupondje> I hang around tomorrow, so if you need some more tests/info :)
[23:19] <dupondje> going to sleep now
[23:20] <dupondje> chrisccoulson: thanks for helping :) good to see it fixed in the near future :)


[00:28] <Geogts88> super lubuntu novice here and i just installed the drivers for an archer t1u wireless usb adapter by copying and pasting the commands from the installation manual.  the internet works now but the wireless info doesn't show up in the default network manager at the bottom right toolbar.  this woulnd't be a big deal but now i don't know how to activate my vpn.  it seems as though it will only work with the wired connection
[00:28] <Geogts88> so how can i get the wireless info to show up in network manager so that i can utilize my vpn?
[12:04] <teward> the best way to see if 16.04 will cause issues on my laptop would be to LiveUSB boot right?
[12:05] <hateball> well it wont cover all scenarios, but it's a good start
[12:05] <teward> mainly concerned about the change in 16.04 of no fglrx :P
[12:24] <leszek> radeon driver works fine
[14:41] <joem86> FYI, on the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu) it mentions the minimum requirements for installing lubuntu as 3 GB of HD space, but the 16.04 installer requires 4.8 GB (my HD was 4.1 GB, and the installer wouldn't continue)
[14:43] <joem86> I put in an SD card to install it, so it's not a blocker for me
[15:11] <fguimont> Is there a way to upgrade to 16.04 from the command line? I can't seem to find any doc on this.
[15:20] <teward> fguimont: upgrade from what?  What version do you currently have?
[15:21] <fguimont> I'm on 15
[15:40] <fguimont> teward: ^^
[17:32] <fguimont> What's the best way to upgrade from lubuntu 15 to 16? (idealy from the cli)
[19:45] <philuk2000> Please help: I set up an extended monitor previously in lubuntu and then chnaged it back to make my laptop screen primary but not I have no toolbar/start panel on my primary display and do not know the command line to open monitor settings
[19:46] <lynorian> philuk2000, lxrandr
[19:48] <philuk2000> lynorian: but that only give me the option to change resolution - nothing to redisplay my taskbar
[19:49] <wxl> philuk2000: yes but by making for a bigger resolution you might find it
[19:49] <lynorian> philuk2000, oh to get your panel and don't have your external monitor
[19:50] <lynorian> lxpanelctl config and put it on your laptop monitor
[19:52] <philuk2000> lynorian: Awesome!!! :) two weeks without a taskbar was getting difficult!