[09:58] <astraljava> Congrats Pasi!
[09:59] <Unit193> Not here ;)
[09:59] <astraljava> Oh, damn.
[10:00] <Unit193> He'll be back 5th-7th
[10:01] <astraljava> Ok.
[10:01] <Unit193> Welcome back yourself
[10:01] <astraljava> Thanks.
[17:12] <ochosi> mr_pouit: there seems to be a bug in xfce4-volumed when trying to unmute (simply put: unmute doesn't work anymore). can you confirm that?
[17:37] <mr_pouit> I've seen a bug report about that for xfce4-mixer too, but I haven't investigated, audio on ubuntu tends to be messy ;>
[17:37] <ochosi> hm, k
[17:38] <ochosi> just wondering what could've broken
[17:38] <ochosi> it's a bit annoying if you're used to use the shortcuts on a daily basis
[17:38] <Unit193> xfce4-datetime-plugin is rather nice, I like the pop up calendar much better. I just can figure out how to get the date and time on one line. It's something that'd be nice in Pangolin
[17:39] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i already added theming support for it in greybird
[17:39] <ochosi> Unit193: try this in the "date"-line and disable the time: %a %d %b, %R
[17:41] <Unit193> Thanks, wow...
[17:42] <ochosi> Unit193: btw, this is how it looks with my theming: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-11022011-064214pm.php
[17:44] <Unit193> Oh, that's nice!
[17:44] <ochosi> you can try/use that if you want, it's not difficult
[21:53] <Unit193> Hmmm.... Another post saying Xfce is like Gnome 2/KDE 3 http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/xubuntu-1110-and-my-netbook Worth a read (maybe the comments too)
[22:00] <madnick> :)
[22:00] <madnick> The grandmother argument shows up in the comments. again..
[22:01] <Unit193> And people go into the channel asking why isn't Xfce Gnome2 -_-
[22:01] <madnick> :P
[22:03] <Unit193> mailtos not working for you?
[22:04] <madnick> Did not understand that comment, what desktop? It works in the browser, where does one get mailto's on the desktop?
[22:04] <Unit193> Terminal > Help > About > Credits > linky
[22:05] <madnick> works :)
[22:05] <madnick> Unit193: but it asks me to setup an account :\
[22:06] <Unit193> Maybe you didn't set one up in T-Bird
[22:06] <Unit193> ?
[22:06] <madnick> Yeah, I do have a thunderbird account
[22:07] <madnick> Unit193: i failed :P I used the terminal in the VM :D
[22:08] <Unit193> Heh: :D


[04:41] <nothingman> hey, nubae!
[11:51] <highvoltage> hey bddebian
[13:48] <bddebian> Hi highvoltage
[14:42] <ianfdlrs> Can someone answer a question for me?
[17:19] <LaserJock> mmorning all
[17:27] <Ahmuck> gooooood morning
[17:42] <nubae> hey peeps
[17:56] <LaserJock> man, 2009 already
[18:07] <Ahmuck> good morning nubae
[18:07] <Ahmuck> good morn LaserJock
[18:15] <Ahmuck> nubae: going to try your fat client setup this afternoon on a blank vm
[19:12] <LaserJock> shesh, it's really raining here
[19:14] <Ahmuck> where is here?
[19:15] <LaserJock> Nevada
[19:15] <LaserJock> we hardly get any precipitation here
[19:15] <LaserJock> I totally wasn't prepared for rain and got soaked on the walk from my car to school
[19:27] <Ahmuck> ur a student?
[19:27] <Ahmuck> at a college
[19:29] <LaserJock> yep
[19:30] <LaserJock> I've been a student for a long long time :-)
[19:52] <Ahmuck> is SDL a problem only on ltsp or is a problem on ubuntu 8.10 as well?
[19:54] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: I think it must be LTSP-only
[19:59] <nubae> yeah ltsp only
[19:59] <nubae> its due to multiple users
[20:00] <nubae> LaserJock: did u ever manage to set up the ltsp network at your uni?
[20:00] <LaserJock> nubae: I haven't yet no, don't know if I will get to
[20:08] <Ahmuck> is anybody working on wine?
[20:09] <LaserJock> depends on what you mean by working on wine
[20:10] <LaserJock> there is a guy in Ubuntu that maintains wine
[20:10] <LaserJock> but do you mean specifically for edu stuff?
[20:10] <nubae> maybe he means when is it going into main
[20:10] <LaserJock> nubae: so do we know what all apps have this SDL problem? right now bug #269082 just has tux*
[20:11] <nubae> would u like me to list them some place?
[20:11] <LaserJock> well, is it more than tux* ?
[20:11] <nubae> SDL drives 50% of edu and games linux apps
[20:12] <nubae> so yes
[20:12] <alkisg> Super Mario Chronicles (SDL) also gives 1 frame per ...minute in LTSP
[20:12] <LaserJock> have you talked with LTSP at all about it?
[20:12] <LaserJock> I assume some anyway
[20:12] <nubae> well, its not an LTSP issue, its an SDL multi-user issue
[20:12] <nubae> it needs to be fixed on the SDL side
[20:12] <LaserJock> right
[20:13] <alkisg> nubae, multi user? I couldn't work smc even with 1 user...
[20:13] <nubae> but yes, ltsp folks are very aware of the issue... the trick right now is to switch sound off... but that is not a solution
[20:13] <alkisg> Not even with plain ssh -Y
[20:13] <LaserJock> but LTSP is sort of the leverage community here
[20:13] <nubae> alkisg: right, some apps are more messed up than others
[20:14] <nubae> well, take a look at the bug report.. it couldn't be more complete I dont think
[20:14] <LaserJock> so essentially we need a bug for each app we want to get fixed
[20:14] <nubae> well, if that would help :-)
[20:15] <nubae> I've got no deployments at the moment, but when I do, I'll certainly start bugging people about it again...
[20:19] <LaserJock> well, I wonder if the problem is in SDL or how the apps use SDL
[20:19] <LaserJock> as in, is there something in our SDL that is causing problems
[20:20] <nubae> it is definitly in SDL, as it happens across apps
[20:21] <LaserJock> do we know if it happens the same in Debian?
[20:22] <nubae> in the tux apps, at least, if you run them with sound=off everything works fine
[20:22] <LaserJock> I wonder if Skolelinux people have complained
[20:22] <LaserJock> right, but you get no sound either
[20:22] <nubae> I wondered about this too, since I seemed to be the first one to file a bug against it... but hey...
[20:22] <nubae> yeah, just pin pointing the problem
[20:23] <nubae> something to do with ltsp's use of pulse
[20:23] <LaserJock> right, so does that then come around to it being a LTSP problem?
[20:23] <nubae> I think it might be valuable to test the officially supported SDL driven apps in edubuntu
[20:24] <nubae> no, because SDL should run fine with pulse
[20:24] <nubae> ltsp is not the only project using that
[20:24] <LaserJock> right, but I wonder if it's a LTSP+pulse problem and not just pulse
[20:25] <LaserJock> I haven't seen any complaints about SDL apps outside of LTSP people (though I haven't looked much)
[20:25] <nubae> well alkisg just mentioned that super mario chronicles won't work even with one user
[20:26] <LaserJock> well, that could just be that game, hard to tell
[20:26] <alkisg> I think there's a problem with refreshing in SDL, it happens too often for the network to cope with it
[20:26] <nubae> yeah or graphics card issues
[20:26] <nubae> ok, then I could test it with fat client
[20:27] <nubae> in theory it should be fine... I'll try running super mario chronicles locally
[20:32] <nubae> interesting that screem was picked above bluefish editor for a web dev app
[20:32] <nubae> I find screem to be quite buggy, its crashed on me more than once
[20:33] <LaserJock> yes
[20:33] <LaserJock> I'd like to replace it
[20:33] <LaserJock> at the time I believe screem was the better
[20:33] <nubae> ok, suppose a lot of this is legacy
[20:33] <nubae> well I would vote for bluefish
[20:34] <Ahmuck> wine multiuser
[20:35] <Ahmuck> smc
[20:35] <Ahmuck> SMC, but you can't SMC to work over a thin client can you?
[20:35] <LaserJock> our basic app selection from say 2 years ago or so, though we try to keep the edu-specific ones fairly updated
[20:35] <LaserJock> *is from
[20:35] <nubae> what is SMC Ahmuck?
[20:36] <LaserJock> it wasn't until recently that anybody complained about screem, so there wasn't a reason to change
[20:36] <nubae> LaserJock: so u pick one app for each area, or what?
[20:36] <nubae> probably no one uses it, as its a recommends :-)
[20:36] <Ahmuck> i've got the test deployment which if i can get fat clients working well, i'd be testing quite a few SDL games
[20:36] <LaserJock> yes, we try not duplicate
[20:36] <Ahmuck> my fat clients are 1Ghz, 512mb ram
[20:36] <LaserJock> 1 app per task, in general
[20:37] <nubae> yeah makes sense, though I really would add abiword
[20:37] <nubae> the main reason being it supports collaboration
[20:37] <nubae> and its fast, small and very stable
[20:37] <LaserJock> yeah, that's a hard one for sure
[20:37] <Ahmuck> oh, and 128mb vid cards
[20:38] <Ahmuck> why not use kompozer?
[20:38] <LaserJock> a lot of people prefer abiword/gnumeric over OO.o but Openoffice has the best chance of being sort of standard
[20:38] <Ahmuck> or quanta
[20:38] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what the state of kompozer is
[20:38] <nubae> LaserJock: I think they are different...
[20:38] <LaserJock> quanta is KDE2
[20:38] <LaserJock> KDE3 rather
[20:38] <nubae> think about what u do when u want to edit something quickly... u dont open OOo
[20:38] <Ahmuck> SMC is super mario chornicals.  it's been my test case for SDL
[20:39] <nubae> u go to notepad, or gedit or abiword
[20:39] <LaserJock> once quanta gets a KDE4 port I'll probably push that into edubuntu-desktop-kde
[20:39] <LaserJock> I don't use abiword, but that's just me ;-)
[20:39] <Ahmuck> i use a text editor, that "highlight"
[20:39] <nubae> I wouldn't compare abiword and OOo... the collaboration thing is a big part too
[20:39] <Ahmuck> it's been a long time however, but i'm sure i can find it
[20:39] <LaserJock> I open gedit (GUI), vim/emacs (terminal), and OOo (heavy word processing)
[20:39] <Ahmuck> abiword has collaboration?
[20:39] <LaserJock> yep
[20:40] <nubae> also, why is blender not in there?
[20:40] <Ahmuck> i don't like abiword because of it's compatiblity issues
[20:40] <Ahmuck> nubae: blender locked my machine on fat client
[20:40] <LaserJock> I think we dropped blender at some point because of space
[20:40] <nubae> Ahmuck: http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
[20:40] <nubae> hmm interesting, never seen it lock up myself
[20:40] <LaserJock> we have gobby for collaborative editing
[20:41] <nubae> thats different
[20:41] <nubae> think about kids working on a stylised document together for some project
[20:41] <nubae> they cant use gobby
[20:41] <LaserJock> sure, I realize that
[20:41] <LaserJock> but Abiword has only had collaboration for a short time
[20:41] <nubae> gobby is a collaborative hacker/programmer tool
[20:42] <LaserJock> so we didn't have that reasoning
[20:42] <nubae> oh, I realise that, just talking about now for Jaunty
[20:42] <Ahmuck> oooh, collaboration ... were working on a communty drive happy publication here at our test lab.  would scribus do collaboration?
[20:42] <nubae> and blender can go back in cause there are no more space restrictions I take it
[20:43] <nubae> Ahmuck: not yet... but it will be very easy for devs to enable collaboration as its not integrated into gnome itself
[20:43] <Ahmuck> sooooo.  any chance of getting anki in edubuntu?
[20:43] <nubae> s/not/now
[20:43] <Ahmuck> i don't think there is a ubuntu packager for it currently
[20:43] <LaserJock> I think I saw anki
[20:43] <nubae> yeah its in there
[20:43] <Ahmuck> this collaboration happens over the lan or the wan?
[20:44] <nubae> anything
[20:44] <nubae> even across natted firewalls
[20:44] <nubae> on both ends
[20:44] <LaserJock> blender might not be easy to get back in
[20:44] <nubae> why?
[20:44] <LaserJock> abiword should be easy
[20:44] <LaserJock> because blender has been demoted to Universe
[20:45] <nubae> probably because its no longer in edubuntu :-)
[20:45] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:45] <LaserJock> I don't think Ubuntu was considering installing it by default
[20:45] <nubae> well its too niche
[20:45] <nubae> ubuntu studio has it though
[20:46] <Ahmuck> is there a way to turn ubuntu studio into a ltsp server?
[20:46] <nubae> but I guess ubuntu studio doesnt have the same rules as ed/k/ubuntu
[20:46] <Ahmuck> is that option there?
[20:46] <LaserJock> nubae: no, Ubuntu Studio is done in Universe
[20:46] <nubae> u can turn any buntu distro that uses teh same repos into ltsp
[20:46] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: you can do pretty much anything you want on an LTSP spever
[20:46] <LaserJock> *server
[20:46] <nubae> yeah, I think its a better approach, universe gives u more power
[20:47] <nubae> but you already know my opinion on this :p
[20:47] <LaserJock> in any case, blender would need to have some dependencies also promoted
[20:47] <Ahmuck> ubuntu studio would be pre-configured however turning it into a ready made journalism lab for yearbooks, etc.  though i'm not sure it would go well, as apple really has this market tied up
[20:47] <LaserJock> but given that it was already in Main at one point I don't know that it would be all that hard to get it in again
[20:48] <nubae> so whats required?
[20:52] <nubae> LaserJock: what I'm seeing with the apps from hardy to intrepid is name changes in the kde-edu area
[20:52] <nubae> that and thin client manager was still supported
[20:52] <LaserJock> yep
[20:52] <LaserJock> the KDE Edu stuff was KDE 3 -> KDE 4
[20:53] <nubae> ahhh, ok, makes sense
[20:53] <nubae> so u want me to list them with their old names for the hardy apps list?
[20:54] <LaserJock> yes
[20:54] <LaserJock> I want it to be accurate
[20:54] <nubae> ok
[20:54] <LaserJock> looks like for blender we also need: freealut,openal-soft, and ftgl
[20:55] <LaserJock> so that's 4 packages to get promoted
[20:55] <nubae> yeah, no idea what they are :-)
[20:56] <LaserJock> me neither, looks like just various libraries
[20:56] <nubae> btw, we are going to need abiword for sugar anyway
[20:56] <nubae> if thats still the plan
[20:56] <LaserJock> well
[20:56] <LaserJock> do you need all of abiword?
[20:56] <nubae> yes
[20:57] <LaserJock> really?
[20:57] <LaserJock> I would have though just abiword-common or something like that would be needed
[20:57] <nubae> there might be some depends not needed
[20:57] <stgraber> abiword is alreay in main anyway and we have enough space on the CD ?
[20:57] <nubae> no, we need actual abiword too
[20:58] <nubae> yeah cant be that big...
[20:58] <LaserJock> well, that's not so much the question
[20:59] <LaserJock> it's the duplication that might be an issue, though one I think we can work around
[21:02] <nubae> waht was denemo?
[21:02] <LaserJock> a musical score editing app
[21:03] <nubae> oh that fell out cause of dependencies IIRC
[21:03] <LaserJock> I'm pretty bummed out, it was our only music app
[21:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:03] <LaserJock> and it's pretty buggy
[21:03] <nubae> there was a nice little app for learning guitar riffs... tux guitar or something
[21:04] <Ahmuck> name changes?  u mean they are falling away from kname now?
[21:04] <LaserJock> no
[21:05] <LaserJock> but some KDE apps were dropped and some added going from KDE 3 to KDE 4
[21:05] <Ahmuck> ah
[21:05] <nubae> but yes, they did fall away from the k name
[21:05] <nubae> like parley, marble
[21:05] <Ahmuck> there are some nice music apps out there.  rosegarden, hydrogen, etc.
[21:05] <nubae> rosegarden would be a good one indeed
[21:05] <Ahmuck> though rosegarden can be tough to get running because of jack
[21:05] <nubae> very maintained, 4 star rated
[21:06] <LaserJock> it's pretty advanced though, isn't it?
[21:06] <nubae> yeah
[21:06] <nubae> almost pro
[21:07] <LaserJock> that's why Ubuntu Studio has it
[21:07] <nubae> jokosher is pretty neat, it is working on collaborative support, so people can make music across networks together
[21:07] <nubae> yep
[21:07] <LaserJock> yeah, I've been trying to get jokosher in forever
[21:08] <LaserJock> but jono said it wasn't ready when I was last trying (quite a while ago)
[21:09] <Ahmuck> i looked at jokosher this morning.  i would agree, if it's not buggy that needs to be there
[21:09] <Ahmuck> an app to watch, is kdenlive
[21:09] <LaserJock> I find that it's not all that hard to find educational software, but it's *very* difficult to find good educational software
[21:09] <Ahmuck> it works a lot like adobe movie production
[21:10] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: that's been my observation as well
[21:10] <LaserJock> it's the same for science software
[21:10] <LaserJock> and probably most niche stuff
[21:10] <nubae> yeah like 1000 people start a project, 100 continue them, and 10 perfect them
[21:11] <LaserJock> one thing that we can look at is Java apps
[21:11] <LaserJock> since we have a free Java now we can start reviewing Java apps for packaging/inclusion
[21:12] <nubae> we've got a problem there with ltsp though
[21:12] <nubae> or has it changed?
[21:12] <LaserJock> have no idea
[21:12] <LaserJock> I've never run LTSP and only know what I hear in here :-)
[21:12] <Ahmuck> o.O
[21:13] <Ahmuck> i've got short cables, and am running on a pretty standard "desktop" server.  it works, but i definately see the need for fat clients
[21:13] <Ahmuck> and SMC wouldn't even run
[21:13] <Ahmuck> anyhow, a gig network, and switch
[21:13] <Ahmuck> between the server and the client
[21:13] <Ahmuck> many schools will run cable runs over 300ft
[21:14] <nubae> LaserJock: u should really fix that... at least try it out on your home network
[21:14] <LaserJock> I suppose :-)
[21:14] <LaserJock> I just don't like networking
[21:14] <Ahmuck> which can be a problem.  so you have infrastructure upgrade, etc.  and many apps are multimedia apps, journalisim, publishing, etc.  it's a whole different mix than grade school apps
[21:15] <Ahmuck> it's farily easy.  buy a switch, buy some cables, hook up an old pc to a ltsp server
[21:15] <Ahmuck> ah, yes, or do it in a vm
[21:15] <LaserJock> I did buy a crossover cable and tried it on a ClassmatePC a long time ago
[21:15] <LaserJock> in Paris I think
[21:16] <LaserJock> but I just don't have any use for LTSP personally so I have a hard time getting motivated
[21:16] <Ahmuck> that reminds me.  i need to go and make me a crossover cable this afternooon
[21:16] <stgraber> hmm, I guess 99% of the code was rewritten since then :)
[21:16] <Ahmuck> aren't you the leader for edubuntu?
[21:16] <nubae> u work in a school, how can u not have a use for it?
[21:16] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: sorta
[21:16] <LaserJock> stgraber is the LTSP guy though
[21:17] <LaserJock> nubae: I'm a scientist, not an IT admin, etc.
[21:17] <nubae> right, that split is kinda silly, the 2 go together like ham and eggs :-)
[21:17] <LaserJock> I think it's a useful split
[21:17] <LaserJock> but I know what you mean
[21:17] <nubae> yeah, I kinda agree
[21:18] <nubae> but in most deployments, I'll bet you they are used together
[21:18] <nubae> but the focus is now better
[21:18] <LaserJock> people should be free to *not* use LTSP in educational settings or *to* use LTSP in non-educational settings
[21:18] <nubae> righto
[21:18] <LaserJock> however, certainly in schools it makes a lot of sense to use LTSP
[21:18] <nubae> which is why YOU should be running it :-)
[21:19] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that it makes a whole lot of difference
[21:19] <LaserJock> the one time I tried it, it worked just fine, no issues
[21:19] <Ahmuck> that's ok.  i run it and i'll be happy to give ou all user issues and complaints :)
[21:20] <nubae> but how can u test things like collaboration, central management, italc, etc
[21:20] <LaserJock> having 1 decent-spec'd client doesn't give you a good idea of how things run
[21:20] <Ahmuck> vm's
[21:20] <nubae> no right, u need a lab
[21:20] <nubae> but I'm sure u have access to that
[21:20] <nubae> actually u told me u had...
[21:20] <LaserJock> ... no
[21:21] <LaserJock> well, I kinda help out
[21:21] <nubae> yeah... so blow their socks off, install ltsp
[21:21] <LaserJock> but I don't run it, and hence don't get to decide whether to use LTSP or not
[21:21] <LaserJock> the problem is we have no server
[21:21] <Ahmuck> well, he'd have to do it with a test server
[21:21] <nubae> anything can be a server, it just needs a lot of ram
[21:21] <Ahmuck> i'm using a amd64 with 2g of ram for a test server
[21:22] <LaserJock> right, I think we only have machines with <= 512MB
[21:22] <nubae> so get some extra ram... it costs nothing these days
[21:22] <LaserJock> yeah, that is a possibility
[21:23] <LaserJock> but I've got bigger fish to fry
[21:23] <LaserJock> the computer have been there 1 semester and we still can't login
[21:23] <LaserJock> once we have usable machines we can discuss maintainability ;-)
[21:25] <nubae> but ltsp will fix the login problems
[21:26] <LaserJock> no, the problem is AD
[21:26] <LaserJock> we can't get Linux to authenticate
[21:27] <nubae> ah right, I remember...
[21:27] <nubae> well its not too hard, I've done that before... there's lots of documentation on the net
[21:28] <LaserJock> yeah, but it's 2 chemists trying to figure this out between teaching, research, and family
[21:28] <LaserJock> it's pretty slow ;-)
[21:28] <nubae> one of whom is the edubuntu lead ;-)
[21:28] <LaserJock> sure, but I know next to nothing about hardware/networking
[21:29] <LaserJock> I'm learning slowly but surely
[21:29] <nubae> funny, I never get that... In find coding/packaging to be sooo much harder than that stuff
[21:30] <LaserJock> well, it's what you do
[21:30] <LaserJock> I've never had to worry about hardware/networking
[21:30] <nubae> yeah guess we are creatures of habit
[21:30] <LaserJock> but I have had to write code and fix packages
[21:30] <LaserJock> I think networking in particular is way harder than packaging
[21:31] <nubae> no way :-) I think the opposite
[21:31] <LaserJock> I think I'm finally getting IPv6
[21:31] <LaserJock> but LDAP, AD, samba, etc. phew, blows me away
[21:31] <nubae> ip6 is over dramatised... its still not used
[21:32] <nubae> ldap, is simple as can be... the problem is every vendor uses their own standards
[21:32] <LaserJock> mostly I think it's because I have no practical experience with these things
[21:32] <nubae> AD is more or less LDAP
[21:32] <LaserJock> I've just always run single-user machines
[21:32] <LaserJock> and you just plug in an ethernet cable or get wifi and go
[21:33] <nubae> samba is very integrated into ubuntu now... I rarely have problems even across multiple oses (osx, vista, xp)
[21:34] <nubae> they did a really good job there
[21:34] <LaserJock> the problem I think we're having is just that we have a non-standard setup
[21:34] <nubae> sounds like it
[21:34] <LaserJock> if it wasn't for that I think we'd have AD working in nothing flat
[21:34] <nubae> otherwise it would just pretty much plugin
[21:35] <LaserJock> but it took us a lot of debugging to figure out why we can't get anything from the AD server
[21:35] <LaserJock> although Windows machines do it so there must be some way
[21:35] <nubae> well AD is not open
[21:36] <nubae> reverse engineering at its best for linux users
[21:36] <LaserJock> the problem is in the computer's name
[21:37] <LaserJock> because these computer are in the chemisty departement they have .chem. on them
[21:37] <LaserJock> and the AD server doesn't
[21:37] <nubae> ahhh right that would be a problem
[21:38] <nubae> so alias the domain
[21:38] <LaserJock> what would that mean?
[21:38] <nubae> give the .chem an alias to whatever the AD domain is
[21:39] <LaserJock> so if I have a computer, xyz.chem.unr.edu I would turn it into xyz.unr.edu?
[21:39] <mcohen> hi all, can anyone help me with a few questions, first-time edubuntu installer
[21:39] <nubae> well for example, in etc hosts u can give the alias something like chemistry.chem and chemistry.unr.edu
[21:40] <LaserJock> mcohen: just through out your question and we'll see if we can give an answer
[21:40] <mcohen> thanks
[21:40] <mcohen> I have an old Sony Vaio from the closet for the kids
[21:40] <nubae> this is used for other services too that require multiple domain aliases
[21:40] <LaserJock> *throw, geeze my english can be bad some days :-)
[21:40] <mcohen> I'm trying to figure out the minimum reqs, it has 128MB ram, Pentium III 750 MHz
[21:41] <LaserJock> mcohen: what would you like to do with it?
[21:41] <mcohen> but when I try to install ubuntu it throws me to a text shell
[21:41] <mcohen> it's just a pottering about/hopmework machine for my 11 yr old
[21:41] <nubae> mcohen: what ubuntu iso are u installing?
[21:41] <LaserJock> right yeah, Ubuntu needs currently ~ 300+ MB of RAM for the graphical installer
[21:41] <mcohen> I figured 8.10
[21:41] <nubae> -desktop?
[21:41] <mcohen> x86 architecture
[21:41] <mcohen> yes
[21:42] <mcohen> but I don't need the 'try before you buy' feature, I know ubuntu
[21:42] <LaserJock> I would think Xubuntu would be a better choice
[21:42] <mcohen> use kubuntu 8.10 on my work machine
[21:42] <nubae> when does it throw u to the desktop?
[21:43] <mcohen> I never get to a desktop, I tell it to install and it chugs, then pulls up a full screen shell
[21:43] <mcohen> xubuntu is a thinner distro?
[21:43] <nubae> yeah, but even gnome should do 128mb
[21:43] <LaserJock> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM. "
[21:43] <mcohen> urgh, not much ram
[21:43] <mcohen> the machine has a strong processor for the ram it has though
[21:44] <nubae> yeah u are on the low end of ram, but it should work
[21:44] <LaserJock> but usually those are pretty "conservative" requirements
[21:44] <nubae> there were optimisations for ram in 8.10 iirc
[21:44] <nubae> u might be thrown out for another reason though, like graphics card
[21:45] <LaserJock> I would give Xubuntu 8.10 Alternate a try
[21:45] <litlebuda> mcohen, use the xubuntu alternate install cd
[21:45] <LaserJock> and if it's real bad maybe pick up some RAM, should be fairly cheap
[21:45] <mcohen> ok
[21:45] <nubae> yup try that, or enlightenment
[21:45] <mcohen> ram for the old Vaio models is unlikely to be cheap unfortunately
[21:46] <nubae> use them as thin clients??
[21:46] <mcohen> actually,t he thing originally had windows ME on it, and I don't have the recovery disks
[21:46] <LaserJock> or, right, was thinking desktop machine :(
[21:46] <mcohen> idiot me, I installed 2K on it without mirroring, no graphics drivers
[21:47] <mcohen> the default driver only tries 800x600, 16 colors, looked terrible (native LCD is 1024/768
[21:47] <mcohen> hoping for better luck with ubuntu
[21:47] <nubae> find out which graphics card u have
[21:48] <mcohen> it's very hard to tell, I think it's related to the savage S3
[21:48] <nubae> on linux, if u boot up a live cd, u can do lspci to find out
[21:48] <mcohen> but on these 8 yr old super-small laptops, specialised drivers may be needed
[21:48] <mcohen> will try that when I can boot
[21:48] <mcohen> cheers
[21:48] <nubae> try a livecd first actually
[21:49] <mcohen> isn't the ubuntu desktop iso also a livecd?
[21:49] <litlebuda> yes
[21:50] <mcohen> trying now
[21:52] <mcohen> doesn't load
[21:52] <nubae> LaserJock: why do u need your chem terminals to have .chem on the end?
[21:52] <mcohen> sends me to the BusyBox shell
[21:52] <nubae> why not use the actual domain?
[21:53] <nubae> mcohen: with what message?
[21:53] <litlebuda> mcohen, try the xubuntu alternate install cd
[21:53] <LaserJock> nubae: it's not at the end, it's xyz.chem.unr.edu
[21:53] <LaserJock> or is that what you meant?
[21:53] <mcohen> message was:
[21:53] <mcohen> "loading, please wait"
[21:54] <nubae> LaserJock: no, then its not a problem... alias them...
[21:54] <mcohen> BusyBox v1.10.2 ubuntu etc
[21:54] <mcohen> enter help for a list etc
[21:54] <mcohen> that's it
[21:54] <nubae> mcohen: something is breaking then... try xubuntu like the others said...
[21:54] <mcohen> righto, dling now
[21:55] <mcohen> will let you know how it goes when I try
[21:55] <litlebuda> mcohen, Minimum system requirements
[21:55] <litlebuda> You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time. To install Xubuntu, you need 1.5 GB of free space on your hard disk. Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
[21:55] <nubae> LaserJock: for example, this is my entry in /etc/hosts: <IP_ADDRESS>  homeserve.lan homeserve conference.homeserve schoolserver
[21:56] <nubae> that means homeserve.lan is the same as conference.homeserve.lan
[21:57] <mcohen> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM" may be a problem
[21:58] <nubae> yah minimum went up, mcohen how many of these laptops u got? more than one?
[21:58] <litlebuda> mcohen, try it first you may be surprised
[21:59] <mcohen> just the one, found in a closet
[21:59] <mcohen> will try and see
[22:06] <Ahmuck> i just installed wine-doors.  would this work for wine?
[22:10] <Ahmuck> nubae: do u know if there is a way to run from the machine and use ltsp for login and /home only?
[22:58] <Ahmuck> is this channel edu safe?
[22:58] <Ahmuck> ie CIPA safe ?


[07:19] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:50] <daftykins> \o/
[07:50] <daftykins> my house is out of breakfast items ;_;
[07:53] <brobostigon> :(
[08:32] <zmoylan-pi> dessert for breakfast day \o/ :'-)
[08:33] <daftykins> :D
[08:33] <daftykins> have to dig into this PCI compliance malarkey today, oof
[08:34] <daftykins> doesn't look all that bad, just a lot of hoop jumping to do


[00:20] <poolie> hi all
[03:41] <poolie> cinerama, the update misbehaviour is bug 557886
[03:41] <cinerama> I see
[03:42] <cinerama> no me gusta
[03:43] <poolie> i wonder if an easy fix is possible
[06:18] <vila> hi all !
[06:28] <poolie> hi vila
[06:29] <poolie> that reminds me, dst
[06:29] <poolie> when does summer time start for you?
[06:29] <vila> err, good question :)
[06:29] <vila> end of October according to my family's time keeper ;)
[06:31] <vila> darn, I thought I could trick jenkins into revealing the aborted builds by reverting its previous version but that doesn't work, the jobs are still there on disk but not in web GUI :-/
[06:32] <vila> so, you'll have to trust me or look at holes in the numbering, I'll try older versions later
[06:32] <vila> anyway, natty has been seen hanging yesterday evening and maverick was this morning
[06:33] <poolie> has it now
[06:33] <poolie> thanks for telling me
[06:33] <vila> that's maverick in the chroot, surprisingly the one I left in the vm hasn't so far
[06:34] <vila> but well, that's the schrodinger nature of races ;)
[06:36] <poolie> so do you have a reliable view of which revisions caused this?
[06:36] <poolie> or at least a window on them?
[06:37] <vila> http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/view/%20High/job/selftest-osx-10.6/305/ for example
[06:38] <poolie> cinerama, https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/557886-update-file/+merge/77286
[06:38] <poolie> fixes one of them
[06:41] <vila> is it just me or is lp slower at displaying diffs ? Or is it because *we* are faster at mentioning the mps ?
[06:41] <vila> I thought the diff was available in less than 5 minutes but that's already not the case here
[06:43] <vila> ha, here we go
[06:47] <poolie> when their rabbit stuff is loaded it should pop up faster
[06:47] <poolie> well
[06:47] <poolie> you will not need to reload
[06:47] <poolie> the overall latency may be no better
[06:49] <vila> reviewed
[06:50] <vila> subjectively I prefer that my browser does the boring refresh job and just tell me when it's ready instead of forcing me to poll
[06:50] <poolie> yup
[06:50] <vila> it will feel faster because I'll spend *less* time caring about that
[06:50] <poolie> https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/NotificationService
[06:52] <poolie> coincidentally i had that open
[06:52] <vila> hehe
[07:17] <vila> puzzling, reverting to a version from 2011-08-16 for jenkins still don't revealed the aborted jobs, stopping the experiment there
[07:26] <poolie> hm
[07:26] <poolie> vila, i'm out for a while, happy hacking
[07:27] <vila> poolie: enjoy !
[07:51] <jelmer> moin
[08:03] <mgz> morning all.
[08:07] <jelmer> hey mgz
[08:18] <vila> hey jelmer, mgz !
[08:19] <mgz> hm, we still have the 'giveback' confusion in the doc? I thought that had been changed...
[08:19]  * mgz edits
[08:21] <AuroraBorealis> is there anything that i should do to help find out whats causing this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/855155
[08:23] <jam> jelmer: morning. You replied to bzr-announce about the pipeline release. Do you want me to bounce the message, or let it through?
[08:24] <jelmer> jam: Whoops
[08:24] <jelmer> jam: please bounce it
[08:26] <jam> I expected as much, but I figured I'd check first
[08:27] <AuroraBorealis> its been sitting at new for a while
[08:29] <jelmer> AuroraBorealis: you'd need somebody with inventory delta experience for that
[08:29] <AuroraBorealis> hmm
[08:29] <AuroraBorealis> that i dont have
[08:30] <jelmer> me neither..
[08:31] <AuroraBorealis> k
[08:31] <AuroraBorealis> i'll keep poking around
[08:31] <AuroraBorealis> now, bed
[08:47] <mgz> wow, launchpad marks up bundles emailed to mps, I've not seen that before
[08:47] <mgz> preety.
[09:11] <jam> AuroraBorealis: well, the change seems to indicate that 252test.pl is being added but the directory prog1/testcases doesn't exist.
[09:12] <jam> You might try "bzr repair-workingtree" in case it is a local issue. Though it would be nice to save a snapshot of .bzr/checkout/dirstate
[09:12] <jam> in case we can figure out what the difference is.
[09:12] <mgz> might be good to put that in the bug jam as he's zzz
[09:15] <jam> mgz: thanks for the heads up
[09:15] <jam> done
[09:15] <jam> mgz: so how are your first couple of days going?
[09:18] <mgz> pretty well, the admin stuff hasn't killed me and I've had time to work on code :)
[09:21] <mgz> jam: I think I need to run a few pyrexy things by you, shall I just put up a mp later or do you want to be bothered seperately?
[09:21] <jam> mgz: I'm happy to give early feedback if you want it.
[09:22] <jam> I know sometimes it can be hard to get traction on something.
[09:22] <jam> We generally call it "a teddy bear" to talk to :)
[09:22] <mgz> :D
[09:25] <jam> mgz: You can just mention a branch, or you can put up an MP and comment that it may not be ready, and then poke me on IRC, or whatever works for you
[09:26] <mgz> cool, I'll write a few things down
[09:56] <jml> vila: hi
[09:56] <jml> vila: would you please merge my lp:udd branch?
[09:59] <vila> jml: sure
[09:59] <jml> vila: thanks.
[10:01] <vila> jml: sorry for the delay, I missed your reply :-/
[10:02] <jml> vila: np.
[10:03] <vila> jml: done, will be deployed later but I don't expect fallouts or will fix them
[10:03] <jml> vila: what's the deployment schedule like?
[10:03] <vila> sche.. what ? :-}
[10:07] <jelmer> heh
[10:08] <jml> vila: ah, ok.
[10:19] <vila> mgz: thanks for the review on shelve-line-based, I replied, should we talk here to speed things up ?
[10:33] <mgz> vila: perhaps, but I don't see much harm in just landing that
[10:34] <mgz> especially if we can get benoit's change landed later which is a more complete solution
[10:34] <vila> ha, important point, yeah, I could delay the tests waiting for his branch
[10:34] <vila> that still leave the config option name, any suggestion ?
[10:35] <mgz> I wouldn't worry about config.
[10:35] <vila> I can't leave INSIDE_EMACS there, it's just wrong ;)
[10:35] <mgz> just doing char-based if possible and line-based if not is enough
[10:36] <vila> nope, would break on windows
[10:36] <mgz> define a little function called _char_input or something with that logic
[10:36] <mgz> _can_do_char_input
[10:37] <mgz> then that at getch can be removed at the same time when the ui module takes over
[10:37] <vila> still needs help from outside to tie the break about isatty()
[10:37]  * mgz looks again
[10:39] <vila> getchar() should not be attempted is isatty() is false, but that doesn't tell me which char/line should be used + I want line-based to work *even* (and especially if) isatty() is false (i.e. isatty() is relevant only if we want to try char-based
[10:40] <mgz> I don't see why that can't be one logical statement
[10:40] <mgz> if isatty() is false, or if magic emacs variable is set, or we're in tests, _can_do_char_input is false
[10:41] <vila> right, so I want some env var or config option to cover both emacs and the test use cases
[10:43] <vila> the emacs magic var doesn't work as there are ways (unusual but existing) to get char-based input under emacs
[10:43] <mgz> use a config option if that's the easiest way for you, I just don't want it to be the kind of thing people need to be setting manually
[10:45] <mgz> at least till it's an option that works for all bzr input rather than just the shelf command
[10:45] <vila> err, but there is no way to switch to line based without setting it manually. That's the current bug, you can't use shelve when line-based is required and this can't be decided automatically >-/
[10:46] <mgz> I thought that's what checking your magic emacs var did?
[10:46] <vila> hmm, unless benoit's branch address that but I don't remember seeing a way to do that in his proposal
[10:47] <vila> yes, it worked my limited env where I wanted to check the line-based stuff was working but... oh, I'm trying too hard ?
[10:48] <vila> you mean *you* are ok with landing with INSIDE_EMACS ???
[10:49] <mgz> yes, on the basis that a proper fix would be moving the logic to bzrlib.ui and that can happen later.
[10:49] <spiv> vila: maybe sys.platform should be set to "emacs" :P
[10:49] <vila> spiv: :)
[10:49] <vila> mgz: ooookay ! Sorry, I'm dense, not enough sleep
[10:50] <vila> mgz: can you say so and vote in the mp ?
[10:50] <mgz> will do.
[10:50] <vila> very much appreciated
[10:51] <mgz> the isatty stuff if shelf_ui is already a hack so adding a little more isn't making life worse
[10:52]  * vila nods
[10:59] <vila> lunh time
[10:59] <vila> c
[10:59] <mgz> have a nice clunh
[12:20] <AfC> Hm. I just tried
[12:20] <AfC> $ bzr branch lp:ubuntu/maverick/linux
[12:20] <AfC> and it didn't work.
[12:20] <AfC> Am I missing something obvious?
[12:24] <AfC> I mean, it says "linux" is the source package name...
[12:28] <jelmer> AfC: odd, it says here there are no branches for the linux package
[12:28] <jelmer> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
[12:35] <jelmer> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/linux.html#2011-04-22 01:24:13.263528
[12:45] <AfC> jelmer: ok, thanks. Is there anything I can do about that?
[12:47] <AfC> (right now I have `bzr branch lp:linux` running, not sure if that's what I actually want; I would have preferred a packaging branch if it existed)
[14:05] <AfC> jelmer: that branch just completed, took real 101m36.019s
[14:05] <jelmer> AfC, sorry, I think I missed that. which branch just completed?
[14:10] <AfC> jelmer: lp:linux
[14:10] <AfC> (just a data point)
[14:10] <AfC> kernel.org is still down, so I can't immediately compare it to a git clone of Linux
[14:12] <ccxCZ> it's now hosted at github
[14:39] <briandealwis> Is there a way to override a config var from the command-line?  I'd like to use 'bzr pull -v' to show the log entries since the pull point, but use the line formatter.  I can set 'log_format=line' in my bazaar.conf, but that affects everything...
[14:41] <vila> briandealwis: bug #491196 pending review, but the log_format config option is not migrated yet, on the other hand --log-format-line is recognized by pull IIRC
[14:41] <vila> grr --log-format=line
[14:41] <vila> briandealwis: you're welcome to metoo the bug though ;)
[14:41] <briandealwis> thx vila: it doesn't show in the help, so I assumed I couldn't do that
[14:43] <vila> briandealwis: that's worth another bug ?
[14:44] <briandealwis> vila: —log-format=line doesn't work (with 2.5.0b1 at least)
[14:44] <vila> wow, that's... bad, but you should be able to use '--line' even
[14:44] <briandealwis> nor does --line
[14:44] <vila> ha crap, I was looking at missing >-/
[14:45] <vila> ctrl+alt+del
[14:45] <briandealwis> I'll submit a bug
[14:45] <vila> briandealwis: see bug mentioned above, this is a first step, it will also require migrating the --log-format option to adress your need
[14:46] <vila> briandealwis: filing one with your specific use case sounds appropriate (-Olog-format=line for pull)
[14:46] <briandealwis> ok
[15:48] <mgz> can someone remind me what we do with news now if a change is landing on multiple release branches?
[16:08] <vila> if you know the target ahead of times, file news in the oldest one and that's it
[16:08] <vila> it's a bit less clear when you start landing on trunk but the goal is to avoid duplication
[16:09] <vila> mgz: is that enough or do you want more details ?
[16:10] <vila> oh, also at one point we stopped using NEWS and switch to doc/en/releases-notes/bzr-2.x.txt so one of the merge is confusing
[16:10] <vila> because you suddenly get a lot of stuff merged in the wrong place, in that case remember to move each part in the specific release notes file
[16:11] <mgz> cool, that should be okay then.
[16:11] <vila> mgz: a bit confusing the first time but rest assured that it's still confusing after 20 or so occurrences ;)
[16:56] <mgz> hm, 2.1 usec down from 2.7, not a bad side effect
[16:56] <LeoNerd> What are you measuring that's that small?
[16:59] <mgz> teeny function for encoding stat results as base64
[17:00] <mgz> won't make anything run faster, but some overflow issues needed fixing
[18:41] <mpt> Hi, on my first commit after upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10 beta I get "bzr: ERROR: Failed to GPG sign data with command "[u'gnome-gpg', '--clearsign']"" ... It looks like there's no gnome-gpg in 11.10. What should I be using instead?
[19:07] <mpt> So it looks like I need to update gpg_signing_command ... I just need to figure out where, and to what
[19:08] <mpt> ... ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf is the answer to the first question
[19:08] <mpt> ok, deleting the line altogether defaulted it back to asking for my passphrase at the terminal
[19:09] <mpt> that's good enough for now I guess
[19:13] <mpt> btw the "Configuration Settings" link is broken in <http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/configuring_bazaar.html>
[19:15] <jblue> looking for suggestions on how to manage merging in many commits.. I'd like to inspect each commit, along with their commit comments, but not sure how to do this on the command line.  'bzr status -v' shows the pending merge tips, but I'm not sure how to do a diff for each tip
[19:24] <briandealwis> jblue: see log -p
[19:27] <jblue> 'bzr help log' doesn't say much about diffing pending merges
[21:00] <bpierre> Hi
[23:51] <poolie> hi jelmer, all


[01:13] <pxwebdev> Hows everyone
[01:22] <Walzmyn> how can i run my mythbox from my laptop?
[01:24] <Walzmyn> by that i mean, how can i control my mythbox from my laptop
[01:27] <pxwebdev> you mean how can you control mythbox thats on another computer from your laptop
[01:27] <Walzmyn> yes
[01:28] <Walzmyn> someone told me i could while I was installing mythbuntu, but I didn't remember how
[01:28] <pxwebdev> well from what I read in the docs, you install the server, then you install the client on the laptop and configure the client to look at the server for the info
[01:28] <pxwebdev> its all in the setup config area
[01:30] <Walzmyn> where are those docs. I was searching the website but couldn't find anythign
[03:26] <tgm4883> Walzmyn, you need to use mythweb to do so
[04:56] <Marthy_CSNA> I need assistance changing inuputs on my pvr 150, so that I can stream it with vlc, I already got the coax in working, but can't switch to the the composite input
[06:21] <karatekickz> anyone help me with vnc?


[00:26] <Guest82> Hello!
[00:27] <Guest82> I'm looking for some help on setting up disk partitions manually to dual boot a windows 11 machine with 22.04
[00:57] <user|36> hey guys
[00:58] <user|36> where do i get mantic source.list
[01:15] <kasey> need some more kubuntu help
[01:16] <kasey> got kubuntu to work but now somthing i cant fix is happening
[01:16] <kasey> even reinstalling the ISO doesnt work
[01:16] <kasey> it keeps saying that KDEPlasma session is not avialible
[01:16] <kasey> i tried to boot normal session and install it but it says its already there
[01:17] <kasey> i thought the OS was installed so i reinstall it and im having the exact same problem
[01:17] <kasey> even the VM i tested it on had the same problem
[01:17] <kasey> thought the ISO was bad so i got a new ISo
[01:17] <kasey> exact same thing
[01:17] <kasey> idk what to do
[01:50] <RjG> is there a suggestions box for features that would be nice to have as a tool or feature in the installer or upgrader?
[02:14] <genii> The traditional way would be submitting a bug report against the installer package with a description or title like "feature request" and then describe in the feature request the tools or features desired
[09:02] <acetyll> no terv patukas
[09:03] <guest69420> o/
[09:04] <acetyll> mis nvidia driverit kasutad muidu?
[11:50] <pickanick> Kubuntu 2204: How to check that "Unattended upgrades" is active? apt upgrade reports "Canonical released microcode updates for both Intel (CVE-2022-40982) and AMD (CVE-2023-20593). ‘Unattended upgrades’ provide security updates by default. Ensure it remains enabled to always get all updates as they become available."
[11:50] -ubottu:#kubuntu- Information exposure through microarchitectural state after transient execution in certain vector execution units for some Intel(R) Processors may allow an authenticated user to potentially enable information disclosure via local access. <https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-40982>
[11:50] -ubottu:#kubuntu- An issue in “Zen 2” CPUs, under specific microarchitectural circumstances, may allow an attacker to potentially access sensitive information. <https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2023-20593>
[11:53] <pickanick> In general how can one tell whether advertised microcode updates have been received or applied?
[11:56] <pickanick> I have found https://ubuntu.com/security/CVE-2022-40982  so that provides some information several steps away from an answer
[11:56] -ubottu:#kubuntu- Information exposure through microarchitectural state after transient execution in certain vector execution units for some Intel(R) Processors may allow an authenticated user to potentially enable information disclosure via local access. <https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-40982>
[11:58] <pickanick> thanks ubottu that helps me feel listened to and understood. Very affirming!
[13:50] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:06] <gorillq> o/
[19:14] <user|84> hello
[19:15] <user|84> I'm having some issues with bluetooth on 22.04 LTS. My bluetooth chip is confirmed working under linux mint, kernel 5.15, with a fix that I found, but the same fix doesn't work for kubuntu 22.04, im assuming because it has a newer kernel. I found a diff patch, but can't figure out how to apply it
[22:42] <user|69> Error while installing package: installed samba-common-bin package post-installation script subprocess
[22:43] <user|69> who do i report that bug to
[22:53] <user|69> i guess it will go unfied and fusterate many that may change to mint linux
[22:54] <user|69> #kubuntu
[22:54] <user|69> Error while installing package: installed samba-common-bin package post-installation script subprocess