[22:50] <andyfied> vino is working well enough for me right now, but i'll be poking xserver at some point
[22:50] <fatjon> i have dual boot ubuntu 13.10 with windows 7. when i star ubuntu from the drug menu it tanke some  time. what can i do for runing faster it at start up?
[22:52] <SteveBell> bekks: confused. so you mean data1 and backup are not ext4?
[22:52] <bekks> SteveBell: I dont see "data" and "backup" there.
[22:52] <c_korn> hitsujiTMO_: well, at least it passed the checksum checks when installing. but I can disable the mirror to be sure.
[22:52] <bekks> SteveBell: I can see one ext4 partition, one extended, and one swap.
[22:52] <SteveBell> left side under "Geräte"?
[22:52] <SteveBell> devices
[22:53] <MonkeyDust> fatjon  disable unnecessary services and try these tips https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4653463/ubuntu_speed.txt
[22:53] <bekks> SteveBell: you have to click on them to see the content...
[22:54] <SteveBell> bekks. yes I do see content. but then what?
[22:54] <fatjon> ok
[22:55] <bekks> SteveBell: Then you have to decide wether is is the filesystem you want to format as ntfs.
[22:56] <SteveBell> uedLWP
[22:56] <Smashcat> Anyone know when the installer for Ubuntu will be able to handle >2TB disks without crashing out?! It's 2013, not 1985 :)
[22:56] <bekks> SteveBell: What does "uedLWP" mean?
[22:56] <SteveBell> well bekks so you mean double click in gparted or finder?
[22:56] <SteveBell> wrong chat
[22:57] <bekks> SteveBell: In your file manager, you can see that devices to. Use it to look at the contents, decide which device is holding the partition you want to reformat.
[22:57] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: have you booted the installer in bios or uefi mode?
[22:59] <Smashcat> hitsujiTMO: Yep, it can't create a RAID1 array using >2TB partitions. Complains about MSDOS maximum size and crashes out. Same as it has for years. I'm surprised nobody has bothered fixing it. I'm just going to create the RAID manually after install, same as always :)
[23:00] <mir_> hello
[23:00] <adac> any ideas what the intellij apt package name is?
[23:00] <bekks> Smashcat: It isnt fixable. If you have partitions larger than 2TB, use GPT label instead of MSDOS label.
[23:00] <yorwos> brb
[23:00] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat:  """"Complains about MSDOS maximum size and crashes out."""" you've booted in bios mode. you must boot in uefi and install as that
[23:00] <SteveBell> bekks maybe I'm totally off here but what I see in gparted does not match up to what exists. there's an internal hdd in the netbook (guess thats 230gb) and an 1 ex. hdd with 2 partitions (2tb and 1Tb) currently I don't see how that matches up with the gparted info
[23:01] <bekks> SteveBell: why dont you just start gparted and select another device, in the top right corner?
[23:01] <Smashcat> hitsujiTMO_: Not sure what you mean - this server will only boot one way. It was using 3TB disks fine under Windows 7. Ubuntu has never worked properly with large disks in the partitioner, as far as I know though
[23:02] <fatjon> MonkeyDust. i paste this
[23:02] <KI7MT> Maybe be worth pastebinit an fdisk -l to see what all is there
[23:02] <bekks> Smashcat: Windows used a GPT label.
[23:02] <bekks> fdisk -l isnt capable of showing GPT contents.
[23:02] <fatjon> MonkeyDust. i paste the comand on terminal but dont teke afect
[23:03] <KI7MT> Im referrign to SteveBell  stuff
[23:04] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: you need to to ensure you are booting as eufi so you can install onto a gpt partition. mbr doesn't support gpt at all. Windows uses a fake mbr when installing on gpt partitions
[23:04] <Smashcat> bekks: Well it doesn't matter, I just set it up after install, same as usual. Not sure why it's impossible for Linux to do the same as Windows really, but it doesn't matter
[23:04] <bekks> Smashcat: Because you have to label your disk as GPT, not as MSDOS.
[23:05] <Smashcat> bekks: Yeah what I mean is, there's no way to do that from the installer
[23:05] <blacklight> has anyone experiencing very high audio latency issues with audacity after the latest ubuntu upgrade in 13.10? audacity developers told me to blame ubuntu for that..
[23:05] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: ubuntu doesn't do it because its a bad hack that can lead to many problems
[23:05] <blacklight> *is anyone
[23:05] <bekks> Smashcat: It is the default when booting using BIOS. Using UEFI, the default will be GPT.
[23:07] <Smashcat> bekks: Well I don't change anything after install, reboot and can set up the >2tB RAID1 array - have done on exactly the same hardware as this server a few times. It's only during the installer that it cannot handle large disks. I don't do anything in the BIOS between boots
[23:08] <bekks> Smashcat: Then, since you are using BIOS, the default is using MSDOS label.
[23:08] <Smashcat> bekks: Well how can the machine boot without a BIOS?
[23:09] <bekks> Smashcat: Do you know what UEFI is? :)
[23:09] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: because it has uefi isntead of bios
[23:09] <Smashcat> bekks: Apparently not :) So the PC BIOS is circumvented and it uses a diffent ROM to boot?
[23:10] <lhz> Just got a new PC with Win7 preinstalled on a large SSD drive. First thing I did, was to shrink the Win7 partition to half size, then install Ubuntu 13.10 from USB. The installer didn't recognize Win7, so I added a new partition for Ubuntu and one for swap manually, then installed. I chose /dev/sda for boot loader installation. However, the computer just boots directly into Win7, Grub is never shown. What to
[23:10] <lhz> do?
[23:10] <bekks> Smashcat: Nope. BIOS isnt a ROM. BIOS is technically some software that is started from a ROM. UEFI is a different software.
[23:11] <Smashcat> Yeah, the BIOS is stored in ROM I know. So the UEFI is in a different part of ROM, or is remapped to the same address space during boot you mean?
[23:11] <KI7MT> Smashcat, UEFI background Info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
[23:11] <blacklight> any issue reported with Audacity and ubuntu 13.10 by anyone? am i the only one?
[23:11] <bekks> Smashcat: Forget about address spaces - thats an ancient relict.
[23:11] <Smashcat> bekks: All software uses address space :)
[23:12] <bekks> Smashcat: Remapping of address spaces is the relict, in fact.
[23:12] <bekks> Smashcat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI
[23:12] <SteveBell> bekks:  getting closer. changeing the drive was a good idea. I keep having the problem that when starting gparted for the second time I cannot authenticate.
[23:13] <awesomess3> I think using unetbootin to create a boot USB and then running the live USB might've corrupted my recovery partition for my Windows 8.0 OS. :'(
[23:14] <awesomess3> I was booting UEFI
[23:14] <bekks> awesomess3: Just booting will not damage anything.
[23:14] <awesomess3> In safe mode
[23:14] <awesomess3> oh ok
[23:14] <Smashcat> bekks: From what I read, Linux CAN use GPT disks from BIOS based systems. It jsut can't boot from them
[23:14] <bekks> Smashcat: Yeah. Thats why the installer dont let you create GPT labels in BIOS mode.
[23:15] <TLoFP> Hi guys, I installed Ubuntu and when I start the laptop it pops up with "An Error was detect. Do you want to report it?"
[23:15] <Smashcat> bekks: That doesn't make any sense. I'm not booting from the RAID1 array - it's there for data only.
[23:15] <Viking667> 'llo all.
[23:15] <Viking667> Well, I managed a minor miracle, thanks to grml.
[23:15] <glitsj16> blacklight: 13.10 uses pulseaudio 4 i believe, which uses timer-based audio scheduling, you might need to turn that off .. check if you have a line in your default.pa like load-module module-udev-detect and add tsched=0 ..restart pulseaudio and it might kick audacity in the right direction
[23:15] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: then what are you booting from?
[23:15] <bekks> Smashcat: It perfectly makes sense. It is a safety precaution.
[23:16] <Smashcat> bekks: Safety for what? It is supported by Linux.
[23:16] <bekks> Smashcat: Safety for not leaving you with an unbootable system.
[23:16] <Viking667> a upgrade to 13.04 from 12.10 went bad - missed the kernel. I managed to get back into the system with grml, and installed kernel again, then rebooted. Whew.
[23:16] <bekks> Smashcat: If you want a GPT based RAID1 in BIOS mode, create it manually. The installer simply cant be used for all special use cases.
[23:16] <KI7MT> Logically speaking, there's not need for => 2TB /boot  put /usr /home whatever on it
[23:17] <Viking667> Now I'm in the midst of a 13.10 upgrade.
[23:17] <Smashcat> bekks: I'm not using the RAID1 as the boot device, or the root filesystem. It's a separate mount point. It doesn't affect boot up at all
[23:17] <bekks> Smashcat: It still is a special use case the installer isnt designed for,
[23:17] <Smashcat> bekks: Do you work on the installer? Or on the software at all?
[23:18] <bekks> Smashcat: No, why?
[23:18] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: so you have another drive that that set as the primary booting device?
[23:18] <Smashcat> bekks: Wondering if you had insider info about their decisions
[23:18] <Viking667> lol. I made my /boot 200Mb.
[23:18] <bekks> Smashcat: If so, I wont announce them ;)
[23:18] <Viking667> I thought that was a reasonable size.
[23:19] <Smashcat> hitsujiTMO_: Yep, the boot/OS is on an SSD - the RAID1 device is for data storage (Samba use really).
[23:19] <hitsujiTMO_> Viking667: it is if you clean it after kernel updates
[23:19] <blacklight> glitsj16: even adding tsched=0 and restarting pulse, when i do playback in audacity i get tons of these messages on console:
[23:19] <blacklight> ALSA lib pcm.c:7843:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occurred
[23:19] <KI7MT> Viking667, yup ,, my default installs are 500mb /boot .. has been for a long time :-)
[23:19] <bekks> Smashcat: Why dont you just manually create the RAID1 then?
[23:19] <Viking667> mmm.
[23:20] <Smashcat> hitsujiTMO_: The installer has been broken for years with RAID setup. Basically crashes out, and the install process needs to be restarted.
[23:20] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: would have helped if you mentioned that earlier :P what's /dev/sda ?
[23:20] <bekks> Smashcat: It always worked for me. In standard use cases.
[23:20] <glitsj16> blacklight: do you use the lowlatency kernel ?
[23:20] <Viking667> I'm just gobsmacked my fiddling around managed to leave me without a kernel after an upgrade. I'd done some homework previously - removed all but the latest kernel, then ran the updater. I suspect I managed to do something wrong.
[23:20] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: I mainly use debootstrap these days, unless its a simple system
[23:20] <Smashcat> bekks: I DO create them manually - I'm wondering why the Ubuntu team don't fix the bug that allows people to go through the process of specifying the partitions etc for the MD and then it crashes.
[23:20] <blacklight> glitsj16: how do i check that?
[23:21] <bekks> Smashcat: Not supporting a special use case isnt a bug, IMHO.
[23:21] <Smashcat> bekks: There is no "standard use" - everyone's different
[23:21] <Smashcat> bekks: setting up a RAID isn't a "special case" - I've been using them for 20 years
[23:22] <bekks> Smashcat: And since at least 15 years raid setups do work for me. Now what? :)
[23:22] <Smashcat> bekks: You're probably not doing it right then :)
[23:22] <TLoFP> I tried to install dropbox: it installed just fine, but when I try to open the application nothing happens. how can I troubleshoot this install?
[23:22] <bekks> Smashcat: Because I am not mixing label formats and boot modes? :>
[23:22] <KI7MT> Smashcat, most of have .. but RAID .. or  at least Hight Availability RAID is HW based anyway, which more often than no required loading the drivers at install.
[23:22] <glitsj16> blacklight: check your installed kernels through whatever interface you install apps, might be software center, synaptic, apt .. it is not installed by default and named linux-image-...-lowlatency instead of ...generic, i think you'd know if you had installed it
[23:23] <Smashcat> bekks: I don't think you understand what I'm doing. That's for the input though :)
[23:23] <bekks> Smashcat: Well, if you think so. I will not force you to get my knowledge.  I just leave the RAID drives unconfigured, then set them up after rebooting
[23:25] <GO|DFISH_> im going to fuck your mother while you watch and cry like a little whiney bitch
[23:25] <DIL> oh my!
[23:25] <alecb_> pacmd shows muted: yes for my only sink -- how do I unmute it (running xmonad so standard ui is unavailable)
[23:25] <Smashcat> hitsujiTMO_: I just wish they'd either fix the installer, or remove the option to set up RAID devices if it's likely to crash during the install.
[23:26] <glitsj16> blacklight: i have never tried 13.10 for longer than 30 minutes, so i can't say anything usefull on that .. perhaps ask around in #ubuntustudio if you haven't already
[23:26] <bekks> !ops | GO|DFISH_
[23:26] <GO|DFISH_> !ops | yay
[23:26] <KI7MT> RASD1 is a waste of time & money anyway, if you really need RAID, 5,10 or 50, but a 2TB RAID1 is a failure waiting to happen.
[23:26] <KI7MT> RAID1
[23:26] <GO|DFISH_> everyone call !ops
[23:26] <GO|DFISH_> !ops
[23:26] <SteveBell> bekks got it. gparted is a little unintuitive. but I ow understand the idea and got that partition to NTFS. thanks for your patience!
[23:26] <FloodBot1> GO|DFISH_: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:26] <Viking667> lol. Would -lowlatency be any good on a gaming computer or a Pentium Dual Core with 4Gb, 32-bit (so PAE a request too), and ATI HD3450?
[23:27] <SteveBell> ow=now
[23:27] <niko> GO|DFISH_: you should stop
[23:27] <Jimmie> Can anyone help me. Connect to my wifi router.
[23:27] <bekks> SteveBell: I guess its very intuitive. Choose the device, then do what you want :)
[23:27] <GO|DFISH_> niko: piko what up my boy
[23:27] <Viking667> depends on which fdisk.
[23:27] <GO|DFISH_> niko: kline me =D
[23:27] <niko> it's on my buffer
[23:27] <Viking667> ewps, wrong program.
[23:27] <GO|DFISH_> niko: yay
[23:27] <Smashcat> K17MT: Yes of course you're correct - the people who created the RAID standard didn't know what they were doing and should have asked you...
[23:27] <hitsujiTMO_> Smashcat: to be honest there's lost of issues with the partitioner, but its better than most. I've been reintroduced to the debian one lately and its awful.  Not a big deal, just irritating. Meh
[23:28] <Viking667> hm. left...
[23:28] <KI7MT> Smashcat, I didn't say that, do your home work, then come educate us about how robust RAID1 is.
[23:29]  * Viking667 doesn't consider "RAID1" ... robust.
[23:29] <Smashcat> K17MT: You're speaking from a position of ignorance, and you clearly just want to argue and look big in front of people. I'm not interested in giving you my attention, thanks
[23:29] <bekks> KI7MT: I guess that discussion is pointless, since he thinks he knows better.
[23:30] <KI7MT> have a nice day :-)
[23:30] <Smashcat> bekks: You're assuming I don't also use RAID5 and RAID10 (and RAID 0+1)
[23:30] <bekks> Smashcat: I am not paying attention to you anymore, not even assumptions.
[23:30] <Smashcat> bekks: Thank you :)
[23:34] <troy2> anyone actually chatting?
[23:35] <Smashcat> Heh - sure!
[23:35] <troy2> I've been playing around w/ Linux recently. not ready to jump in with both feet but certainly seeing the potential.
[23:36] <troy2> far superior to windows. but I love my Mac!
[23:36] <Viking667> troy2: heh. I think I am.
[23:36] <Viking667> wow. I can't say about Mac, apart from the having to purchase OS X.
[23:37] <Viking667> To me, that puts Mac OS X into the same bucket as Windows. Upgrades would likely cost across major versions...
[23:37] <Viking667> do they?
[23:37] <bekks> Viking667: Not anymore.
[23:37] <Smashcat> Upgrades for OSX are all free
[23:37] <Viking667> wow. So you shell out once, and all upgrades after that are free?
[23:38] <bekks> Viking667: Yes.
[23:38] <Smashcat> You never "buy" OSX - it comes on the machine
[23:38] <Viking667> lol. If only Microsoft would do that for Windows.
[23:38] <Viking667> Smashcat: if it comes on the machine, then you're paying for it.
[23:38] <troy2> I have about 7 different Linux builds loaded into VMs while I experiment. any comments on preferences?
[23:38] <Smashcat> It's a different model. MS only make money from the software. Apple make money from hardware
[23:38] <Viking667> troy2: certainly Ubuntu. see what Fedora's like too. Those are the two mainstream ones, along with Debian.
[23:39] <awsation336> OSX is just more polished.
[23:39] <Viking667> in certain areas.
[23:39] <Viking667> I found it harder to do stuff there than I did in FreeBSD
[23:39] <CalabiYauManifol> hey
[23:39] <CalabiYauManifol> How can get rid of freaking empathy?
[23:39] <Smashcat> viking667: You're not really paying for it, as the hardware is what you're buying. The software is required to make it useable. It's like saying you want to buy a car without the firmware on the embedded microprocessors
[23:39] <hitsujiTMO_> CalabiYauManifol: you need to get rid of unity/gnome to get rid of empathy
[23:39] <Viking667> or buying a car without the leather on the seats, would be a better idea.
[23:39] <CalabiYauManifol> I used it and now it pops up everytime in the background doing something
[23:40] <KI7MT> Yeah, it's a different model alright, $$ making model, buy the car cheap, then get hammered to years for the gas (aka, Software / Applications)
[23:40] <Viking667> err, without the seats, rather.
[23:40] <CalabiYauManifol> what
[23:40] <CalabiYauManifol> no config?
[23:40] <CalabiYauManifol> it annoys the hell out of me
[23:40] <Smashcat> Viking667: No, it's exactly the same as a car without firmware, or a phone without firmware for that matter.
[23:40] <Viking667> mmmm.
[23:40] <hitsujiTMO_> CalabiYauManifol: may try removing empathys config from ~/.config
[23:40] <Smashcat> Viking667: You could say you're paying for Android, as it's on the phone, but you're not
[23:41] <Viking667> technically, I suppose you're paying for the vendor's tweaks to Android.
[23:41] <CalabiYauManifol> what if "yum remove empathy"?
[23:41] <CalabiYauManifol> is that possible?
[23:41] <Viking667> possibly.
[23:41] <Viking667> on a fedora/centos-based system
[23:41] <CalabiYauManifol> Yes I'm using fedora
[23:41] <CalabiYauManifol> you need to register to talk in their channel
[23:41] <hitsujiTMO_> CalabiYauManifol: this is ubuntu supprt
[23:42] <CalabiYauManifol> and I'm too lazy to do right now
[23:42] <Viking667> I think he knows that.
[23:42] <Viking667> CalabiYauManifol: sigh. Laziness. That only works so far, dude.
[23:42] <CalabiYauManifol> ^^
[23:42] <Smashcat> Viking667: Not even that - most contribute their code to Google as binary blobs - or drivers. It's an extra cost, but you cannot buy the software by itself, so it has no price. It's the difference between hardware and software companies. Samsung don't sell the software that runs their TVs either :)
[23:43] <CalabiYauManifol> Or how can I just deativate autostart?
[23:43] <CalabiYauManifol> deactivate*
[23:43] <Beldar> CalabiYauManifol, open startup applications and populate it and turn it off if there.
[23:44] <awsation336> i am still using ubu 10.04. too scared to do the upgrade to 12.04. have too many customizations, repos, etc. can any one recommend a way to add redundancy to the upgrade process ?
[23:45] <Viking667> uhm.... no?
[23:45] <Viking667> ...as I'm just working through update from 12.10 to 13.10. I've fixed one major faux-pas so far.
[23:45] <Beldar> CalabiYauManifol, run this to populate startup applications   sudo sed -i 's/NoDisplay=true/NoDisplay=false/g' /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
[23:46] <CalabiYauManifol> ah wait
[23:46] <Smashcat> awsation336: Best way is to install fresh on a new disk, then move stuff across generally - it's painful to upgrade too much
[23:46] <CalabiYauManifol> I started it and deleted all accounts and so on
[23:46] <CalabiYauManifol> hope that works
[23:46] <CalabiYauManifol> anyway thx Beldar
[23:46] <Beldar> CalabiYauManifol, This is for ubuntu however not fedora
[23:46] <Beldar> CalabiYauManifol, dekeying accounts does not turn them off.
[23:46] <awsation336> thx smashcat.
[23:47] <Beldar> deleting*
[23:47] <Smashcat> awsation336: np
[23:47] <CalabiYauManifol> I mean it can't connect to an account now
[23:47] <Beldar> CalabiYauManifol, Ah in empathy yes, you can remove it using ubuntu tweak if needed.
[23:47] <CalabiYauManifol> ^^
[23:47] <CalabiYauManifol> whatever
[23:48] <CalabiYauManifol> why is empathy so ugly??
[23:48] <CalabiYauManifol> :((
[23:48] <Beldar> heh whatever to you.
[23:48] <CalabiYauManifol> ^^ as usual I expected that you can optimize the hell out of it
[23:48] <CalabiYauManifol> but no
[23:48] <CalabiYauManifol> :/
[23:49] <Beldar> what-evering help really motivates others to help you.
[23:49] <CalabiYauManifol> lol ok
[23:49] <CalabiYauManifol> ;)
[23:49] <KI7MT> Is there a question or problem in there somewhere ?
[23:49] <CalabiYauManifol> hhm
[23:50] <CalabiYauManifol> not sure
[23:50] <CalabiYauManifol> I guess not :)
[23:50] <james> help I need to get these videos to stop buffering
[23:50] <Viking667> hm. What is Empathy again?
[23:50] <CalabiYauManifol> more internet speed?
[23:50] <Home555> всем привет, кто-то говорит по-русски?
[23:50] <Beldar> !ru | Home555
[23:50] <CalabiYauManifol> it's a program where you can use icq/irc/some messenger stuff
[23:50] <Home555>  /join #ubuntu-ru
[23:50] <Viking667> Ahhh, I see. I use irssi+bitlbee for that.
[23:50] <Viking667> Home555: nyet.
[23:51] <CalabiYauManifol> I use irssi too
[23:51] <awsation336> +1 for irssi
[23:51] <Smashcat> Jesus, the 13.10 server edition of Ubuntu is really screwed :) haha. Think I'm better to install the desktop version, then change it to boot into command-line mode only. Tum te tum
[23:51] <CalabiYauManifol> best irc client in the history of irc clients
[23:51] <Guest37739> I have work to do on my other computer and my dad wants to watch something online but the video keeps buffering and it's not my internet because I have very good internet on my other computer works fine.
[23:51] <Beldar> !040 | Smashcat
[23:51] <awsation336> althought weechat is there as well
[23:51] <compdoc> sex?!!
[23:51] <CalabiYauManifol> lol
[23:51] <CalabiYauManifol> don't mess with ubottu !!
[23:52] <Guest37739> Can someone please give me some kind of fix for video buffering
[23:52] <Viking667> I tried weechat, wasn't entirely enamoured with it. it slowed down dramatically when there were more people in the channel.
[23:52] <Guest37739> I thought maybe it was iceweasel but it does the same on chromium
[23:52] <Beldar> Guest37739, sure a faster computer
[23:52] <Smashcat> I was talking about a character in a fairy story though!
[23:52] <CalabiYauManifol> you said Jesus?
[23:52] <Guest37739> Thanks beldar
[23:52] <Smashcat> Exactly
[23:52] <CalabiYauManifol> haha
[23:52] <Beldar> and downloads
[23:52] <awesomess3> jesus jesus jesus
[23:52] <Viking667> Guest37739: what are the computer specifications? i.e. CPU? Memory?
[23:53] <CalabiYauManifol> Jesus Christ he is serious^^
[23:53] <Guest37739> It's a thinkpad t61
[23:53] <Viking667> awesomess3: he's a great guy.
[23:53] <Viking667> hm.
[23:53] <Guest37739> It's just a computer I run linux on for whatever linux related work I have to do.
[23:53] <Beldar> must be twink hour
[23:53] <KI7MT> Buffering How? Encoding, Downloading, Playing what ?
[23:53] <Viking667> Guest37739: how much memory?
[23:53] <Guest37739> It's a live stream of a basketball game
[23:54] <Viking667> And, is it a t61p?
[23:54] <KI7MT> Fast computer not going to solve that, only Inet BW / Speed.
[23:54] <CalabiYauManifol> maybe you look at the configurations of the player you use
[23:54] <Viking667> Actually, if it's swapping, I'm wondering if that affects things.
[23:54] <CalabiYauManifol> or there is some menu somewhere
[23:54] <Guest37739> I'm using a browser
[23:54] <Guest37739> to play it
[23:55] <CalabiYauManifol> yep
[23:55] <CalabiYauManifol> maybe there is some menu
[23:55] <CalabiYauManifol> ehhrr
[23:55]  * Viking667 disappears...
[23:55] <CalabiYauManifol> lol?
[23:55] <CalabiYauManifol> look around if you can somewhere adjust the quality of the video
[23:55] <Guest37739> and it can't be my internet because I have never had to buffer for years
[23:56] <Guest37739> I did I put it on low and it goes on for awhile but just starts buffering again
[23:56] <CalabiYauManifol> hhm
[23:56] <Guest37739> I have nothing else running but chromium
[23:56] <CalabiYauManifol> try different browser?
[23:56] <Guest37739> I did I was on iceweasel but I thought maybe the buffering was an icewease issue but chromium does the same
[23:57] <CalabiYauManifol> ah ok
[23:57] <CalabiYauManifol> iceweasel lol
[23:57] <KI7MT> Guest37739, it not only your DL speed, but also the Outbound Pipe BW too, if there's 1000's of nodes connected DL-ing the Vid, thee too may be contributing to the problem.
[23:57] <Guest37739> it's not my download speed
[23:57] <CalabiYauManifol> well ok
[23:57] <CalabiYauManifol> thx and byebye
[23:57] <Gumby> Guest37739: he didnt say it was
[23:58] <Gumby> Guest37739: do all streams have the issue?
[23:58] <Guest37739> I don't know. There is only one stream for it.
[23:58] <Gumby> try another stream of something else
[23:59] <tinox> Anyone want to take a stab at solving this brain buster? Fresh install of lubuntu on remote VPS running Ubuntu 64 bit. Can't get Chromium to launch. I started a thread here but not getting any hits http://askubuntu.com/questions/393517/lubuntu-why-wont-chromium-to-run


[09:55] <JackFrost> Location: https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-extras-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/-/commit/636cf8c365c12a87805fdbb83eada000646d34e3
[09:55] <ubot3> Commit 636cf8c in xfce-extras-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter "d/copyright: Correct upstream name, lightdm → lightdm-gtk-greeter."
[12:42] <bluesabre> thanks JackFrost
[16:31] <jphilipz> a reddit user mentioned after upgrading to 4.16 that 'Every time I log in I get promoted with four "wrapper-2.0" prompts telling me about new feature updates. Any way to disable this?'
[22:35] <bluesabre> What are the feature updates for? That's likely the app responsible for sending those notifications.
[22:59] <JackFrost> Debian #979307
[22:59] <ubot3> Debian bug 979307 in xfce4-battery-plugin "xfce4-battery-plugin: Always shows the 'About xfce4-battery-plugin' dialog box on login" [Minor, Open] https://bugs.debian.org/979307
[22:59] <JackFrost> bluesabre: Sure thing, happy to help.
[22:59] <JackFrost> Also bad news for Qt, https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/05/qt_lts_goes_commercial_only/
[23:31] <genii> meh


[01:15] <psusi> I did a bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/installation-guide/ubuntu, made a tiny modification, and am pushing to lp:~psusi/ubuntu/yakkety/installation-guide/partition-limits, and it refuses to perform a stacked push, instead trying to upload the whole ( large and time consuming ) repo... what is wrong?
[01:43] <psusi> ok, I had to delete the repo, then start fresh with --stacked... but now there is no link to propose merging: https://code.launchpad.net/~psusi/ubuntu/yakkety/installation-guide/partition-limits


[00:52] <linuxman410_> cyberanger bodhilinux is the only one that sees broadcom 43 chipset
[00:53] <linuxman410_> cyberanger you here
[01:01] <linuxman410_> orangeninja have you tried bodhilinux
[01:10] <orangeninja> sorry I missed it Linuxman410,  but no I have not.
[01:11] <Unit193> He's still online
[01:12] <orangeninja> where?
[01:13] <Unit193> #lubuntu :P
[01:36] <Unit193> orangeninja: Not exactly the right place
[01:37] <orangeninja> shiii I didnt know
[01:37] <Unit193> Xubuntu now too?
[01:37] <orangeninja> I figured I see if it was a channel....
[01:38] <orangeninja> I am running that on a destop right now
[01:39] <Unit193> Support channel
[01:42] <orangeninja> sorry I am not IRC stalking you... I promise
[01:48] <linuxman410> cyberanger when you get this message i want to resign from ubuntu team
[01:48] <wrst> hey linuxman410
[01:48] <wrst> linuxman410: why??
[01:49] <linuxman410> wrst just do not believe in ubuntu no more no branch of it
[01:49] <wrst> linuxman410: hang around you don't have to
[01:50] <wrst> many guys in here use something else
[01:50] <wrst> great thing about linux many options!
[01:51] <linuxman410> wrst i do use other linux i am not going to quit linux
[01:51] <wrst> no need to quit here then
[01:52] <Unit193> Exactly, Bodhi is even based on Ubuntu so it's close enough ;)
[01:53] <linuxman410> Unit193 did not know i was breaking guidlines in lubuntu sorry
[01:53] <orangeninja> thi is more like a TLUG channel anyway.
[01:53] <orangeninja> yeah me too
[01:53] <wrst> yep and as far as broadcom support actually I've found ubuntu to be one of the best out there
[01:53] <Juzzy> t = TN?
[01:53] <orangeninja> yeah
[01:53] <orangeninja> lol
[01:53] <Juzzy> thought 90% were in knoxville
[01:54] <Unit193> linuxman410: No problem! I was just informing you before someone else did
[01:54] <orangeninja> ok KLUG
[01:54] <linuxman410> wrst i only have 512 ram that is my other problem even xubuntu needs more than that
[01:54] <Juzzy> heh
[01:54] <Juzzy> no excuse having < 2 gb of ram these days, seriously
[01:54] <orangeninja> I am Nashville
[01:55] <orangeninja> linuxman410: you on an old lappy?
[01:55] <orangeninja> if I am ever off on an NLUG night I am going
[01:55] <Juzzy> 8GB (2x4GB) G.Skill Ripjaws Series DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory $40 + Free Shipping
[01:55] <Juzzy> Buy Now ►
[01:55] <Juzzy> Newegg has 8GB (2x4GB) G.Skill Ripjaws Series DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory (F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL) for $39.99 with free shipping.
[01:55] <linuxman410> orangeninja yeah a old dell inspiron 8200
[01:55] <Unit193> CPU~Single core Celeron (Mendocino) (-UP-) clocked at 498.429 Mhz Kernel~2.6.38-11-generic i686 Up~10 days Mem~152.6/495.1MB HDD~20.2GB(59.3% used) Procs~135 Client~Irssi 0.8.15 inxi~1.7.7
[01:55] <wrst> whoa Juzzy
[01:56] <Unit193> 2HDDS
[01:56] <Juzzy> ah orangeninja: ya I'm 1 hr S of nashville
[01:56]  * wrst needs 8GB of ram in his laptop!
[01:56] <Juzzy> ya heh this is desktop ram
[01:56] <Juzzy> my laptop has 8gb tho ;/
[01:56] <wrst> oh Juzzy i thought that was mighty cheap for laptop memory :)
[01:56] <orangeninja> yeah I fugured, I got an old IBM T42 with 512 works perfect but needs batt and linux
[01:56] <wrst> and Juzzy that DESKTOP word should have been a giveaway for me!
[01:57] <orangeninja> Juzzy: what kind I want one
[01:57] <Juzzy> lol
[01:57] <Juzzy> I have a Dell E6510, pimped out
[01:57] <Juzzy> it's rockin
[01:57] <Juzzy> company dropped $2500 on it, heh
[01:58] <wrst> linuxman410: i do think that you can't expect a distro that is aiming for widespread adoption to work well on older/lower spec'd machines
[01:58] <linuxman410> orangeninja i buy old hardware cause batteries are cheaper
[01:58] <Juzzy> orangeninja: going to infosec tomorrow?
[01:58] <orangeninja> freakin laptop supercomputer
[01:58] <Juzzy> yea, its got an i7
[01:58] <orangeninja> nope, I am working
[01:58] <Juzzy> ah
[01:59] <linuxman410> se my laptop only cost 60 bucks
[02:00] <orangeninja> linuxman410: when I get time I will set up some linux on that t42 might upgrade to a gig though if it'll let me
[02:01] <linuxman410> has anyone heard anything from exodus_ms it has been years since i seen him in here
[02:02] <orangeninja> Juzzy: you in Columbia or around there?
[02:08] <wrst> linuxman410: saw him pop in a few weeks ago just for a moment
[02:11] <Unit193> 8-30-11
[02:12] <Unit193> Seems to have only been there ~3 minutes
[02:16] <linuxman410> wrst i did just leave the lubuntu team
[02:18] <cyberanger> linuxman410: sorry, prioritizing my link a good bit, moving alot of data this week (building a mirror)
[02:19] <linuxman410> cyberanger what for
[02:19] <cyberanger> well, my own projects atm, but long term I'm hoping to setup a public mirror
[02:20] <linuxman410> cyberanger what kind of projects
[02:21] <cyberanger> main one is a router project, very early stages
[02:21] <Unit193> cyberanger: :D
[02:21] <cyberanger> aimed more at moderate users, emergency situations
[02:22] <linuxman410> cyberanger i need a custom os that will un on the broadcom 43 wireless
[02:22] <Juzzy> orangeninja: sorta, Lewisburg
[02:22] <Juzzy> E of columbia
[02:22] <Juzzy> SE-E
[02:22] <cyberanger> compared to others that are easy, but limited, or advanced use but a pain for an emergency situations, when you need to setup and move on
[02:22] <linuxman410> cyberanger do you know how i can do that
[02:23] <cyberanger> linuxman410: what are the other requirements
[02:23] <linuxman410> pentium 4 1.6 512 ram
[02:23] <cyberanger> Juzzy: we had alot in the east, then west had the majority, now it's middle again it seems
[02:24] <cyberanger> linuxman410: lxde, openbox, gnome, xfce, wicd or network-manager?
[02:24] <Juzzy> nah, I'm middle TN
[02:24] <Juzzy> I'm like EXACTLY between nashville and huntsville
[02:24] <linuxman410> cyberanger that will work with broadcom 43
[02:24] <cyberanger> Juzzy: I was referring to your earlier 90% knoxville comment
[02:24] <Juzzy> oh sry
[02:25] <Juzzy> gotcha now
[02:25] <Juzzy> noone going to infosec tomorrow? :(
[02:25] <cyberanger> linuxman410: I follow that, you need a linux kernel with broadcom b43
[02:25] <cyberanger> but what else, what UI
[02:25] <linuxman410> cyberanger openbox
[02:26] <cyberanger> Juzzy: infosec? (only heard of two confrences coming up, phreaknic & skydogcon)
[02:26] <linuxman410> cyberanger would the ubuntu alternative install have broadcom
[02:26] <cyberanger> linuxman410: what network manager, to go with your card (config files, wpasupplacant, or something a little more powerful, like wicd or network-manager)
[02:27] <Juzzy> infosec is tomorrow
[02:27] <linuxman410> cyberanger wicd
[02:27] <cyberanger> Juzzy: where? I hadn't heard at all
[02:27] <Juzzy> cyberanger: unfortunatly skydogcon and phreaknic are on the same days
[02:27] <Juzzy> nashville conv center
[02:27] <cyberanger> Juzzy: intenionally (but not the same hotels)
[02:28] <Juzzy> well, semi
[02:28] <Juzzy> skydog tried to move his
[02:28] <Juzzy> but got flack for it
[02:28] <cyberanger> I've heard a little about it, and I'm sure there is pieces of the story that are lacking
[02:28] <Juzzy> he also tried to get passes that'd work for both events but phreaknic didnt want to
[02:29] <linuxman410> cyberanger can i do it with ubuntu alternative
[02:29] <cyberanger> skydog used to run phreaknic two years, apperently nashville2600 didn't like the way he ran things, he said he would create a con for two years, was gonna be over the summer to not conflict
[02:30] <cyberanger> had to do this to save face, then both cons on the same weekend, and on an NFL night (very odd, seems delibrate)
[02:30] <cyberanger> linuxman410: hang on, looking into it
[02:30] <linuxman410> cyberanger ok thanks
[02:31] <Juzzy> ya I don't care for grownup drama
[02:31] <Juzzy> all I know is skydog and mudflap both run the local hackerspace
[02:31] <Juzzy> which is pretty damn cool
[02:32] <cyberanger> Juzzy: yeah, which explains the hackerspaces seeming to favor skydogcon
[02:32] <Juzzy> I'm starting something similiar in lewisburg as an arm of my school
[02:32] <cyberanger> didn't know about infosec tommorow, no choice but miss it I'm afraid
[02:32] <Juzzy> well like, he's having a lock picking event
[02:32] <Juzzy> which is more down my alley
[02:32] <linuxman410> cyberanger sorry it is ip2200
[02:32] <Juzzy> i love lockpicking
[02:33] <Juzzy> peep this
[02:33] <cyberanger> linuxman410: driver is ip2200
[02:33] <cyberanger> Juzzy: I'm not sure what I'm gonna do, I think phreaknic has proven itself (even though I gott keep in mind, skydog is the reason for two years of that)
[02:34] <linuxman410> cyberanger sorry that is my wireless on one ui have broadcom on the other one ineed to know how to customize it
[02:34] <Juzzy> http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/182809_1274488199173_1739005916_479264_6102052_n.jpg
[02:34] <cyberanger> and my thing was the wifi foxhunt, which neither are doing)
[02:34] <Juzzy> single pin picked - 7-pin security bank bag, < 1 minute
[02:41] <linuxman410> cyberanger holler when u find something
[02:41] <cyberanger> linuxman410: I'm confused, I'm checking the alternate installer for what wifi driver
[02:42] <linuxman410> ip2200
[02:45] <Unit193> 3oz cookie
[02:46] <cyberanger> linuxman410: the ip2200, not the b43
[02:46] <linuxman410> cyberanger both
[02:50] <cyberanger> well, ip2200 is intel, so that has high odds of inclusion
[02:54] <cyberanger> linuxman410: after running a cli install with alternate disk, it'll finish & have you reboot
[02:55] <linuxman410> cyberanger then what
[02:55] <cyberanger> then you'll need internet connection (not with the wifi card, but a wire that's supported) then run
[02:56] <cyberanger> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install wicd-curses b43-fwcutter
[02:56] <cyberanger> and that'll install what's needed for both wifi cards (note, you'll have what's needed for wifi, but extremely little on the system, it's purely a cli system, no gui installed yet)
[02:57] <cyberanger> for the ip2200 machine, you can leave out b43-fwcutter if you'd like
[02:58] <linuxman410> cyberanger what about gui
[02:58] <cyberanger> well, you said custom, your choice, I've shown you a screenshot or 5 of my setup
[02:59] <cyberanger> but be warned, it's involved (I can do it in less than 5 minutes now, for a reinstall, but first time, truely customizing it all, an hour or more)
[02:59] <linuxman410> cyberanger but what do itype to install gui
[03:00] <cyberanger> well, which gui, gnome, kde, lxde, openbox
[03:00] <cyberanger> how much outside the UI do you want
[03:00] <linuxman410> cyberanger openbox
[03:01] <cyberanger> wallpaper switcher, taskbar?
[03:01] <cyberanger> login manager?
[03:01] <linuxman410> cyberanger yes
[03:02] <linuxman410> cyberanger yes to all you ask
[03:03] <cyberanger> openbox obconf obmenu nitrogen tint2 slim xcompmgr xinit
[03:04] <linuxman410> cyberanger is that what i type
[03:06] <cyberanger> sudo apt-get install wicd-curses b43-fwcutter openbox obmenu obconf nitrogen tint2 slim xcompmgr xinit
[03:06] <linuxman410> cyberanger is that what i type
[03:06] <cyberanger> merely to install the packages yes
[14:02] <wrst> good morning everyone
[16:27] <Xpistos> cyberanger: hey. do you have a little time to maybe ts a Openswan issue?
[16:28] <Xpistos> wrst:
[16:29] <wrst> howdy Xpistos
[17:36] <Unit193> wrst: Good afternoon
[18:00] <wrst> afternoon Unit193 how goeth things?
[18:01] <Unit193> wrst: Had to readup a stupid IRC war, but going for a visit to friends house in a few (with pop, cookies, and food)
[18:12] <wrst> Unit193: there you go
[18:12] <wrst> much better than an irc war :)
[18:14] <Unit193> Heck yeah, be back ~12, party without me ;)
[18:21] <wrst> enjoy!
[18:23] <Unit193> Thanks, adios
[20:38] <cyberanger> Xpistos: you know me, I'll try to squeeze it in
[20:38] <Xpistos> nah
[20:40] <cyberanger> nah, no need it's solved? or..?
[20:44] <cyberanger> Xpistos: ^
[20:44] <Xpistos> sort a
[20:47] <cyberanger> Xpistos: well I don't mind, know it's been a week long ordeal for you
[21:21] <pace_t_zulu> hey guys
[21:21] <wrst> hey pace_t_zulu
[21:21] <pace_t_zulu> thinking bout moving my cell number to google voice
[21:21] <pace_t_zulu> any thoughts?
[21:21]  * pace_t_zulu looks in cyberanger's direction
[21:22] <Xpistos> I am thinking the same
[21:23] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: go for it
[21:24] <cyberanger> just be aware that might complicate the cell phone while the number is ported & a new cell number is assigned, it's rare, easy to migiate, with a prepaid for a backup
[21:24] <cyberanger> and there maybe no hiccups anyway, just advising you in case there are
[21:25] <cyberanger> I've started to move off google voice to asterisk myself, not quite all the way yet though
[21:25] <cyberanger> just something fells so right about asterisk, pleases the inner phreaker/hacker in me ;-)
[21:26] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: ^^
[21:26] <cyberanger> Xpistos: ^^
[21:26] <cyberanger> been using it since it was called grandcentral, it's nice
[21:26] <cyberanger> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20110912
[21:29] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: thanks
[21:29] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: you prefer asterisk to google voice?
[21:39] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: if you got the time means & budget, like to tinker with literally every setting, yes
[21:40] <cyberanger> but atm I'm using them in tandem
[21:41] <cyberanger> (cause I don't have the budget I'd like for it full time)
[21:45] <Xpistos> So when I win the lottery. Who do I hire to right me a comic book management system?
[21:46] <Xpistos> pace_t_zulu: did you make it to the festival this weekend?
[21:46] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: i do not have time
[21:46] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: would you recommend google voice
[21:46] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: no ... i've been slammed lately
[21:46] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: started a new job recently
[21:46] <Xpistos> ouch. Festival site got over 30k hits in a month
[21:46] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: yep, I would
[21:47] <Xpistos> pace_t_zulu: still in vandy?
[21:47] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: no
[21:47] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: i'll pm you a link
[21:47] <Xpistos> cool
[21:47] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: however I do have to add, that asterisk is worth fiddling with, if only due to the fact it's a common office PBX
[21:48] <Xpistos> NICE!
[21:49] <cyberanger> but that's nothing wrong with google voice (asterisk I have mutiple line in's compared to google's one, and international too, since google voice is only available in the us, us number, kinda like a UK & Sweedish number I've had for years)
[21:53] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: the main reason is that i'm too busy to answer my cell
[21:53] <pace_t_zulu> and too many people have my cell number and think they can get text message tech support
[21:53] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: so i am going to move that number to google voice and get a new number and keep it private
[21:54] <cyberanger> that case I can see, for both systems then
[21:54] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: but google voice is likely to be less hassel to set up for basic nieed
[21:54] <cyberanger> google voice tell your cell not to send text messages, or use calling groups to limit when work calls & texts, and everyone else
[21:55] <cyberanger> (might want to make two work groups if your on call ever, have that second one be those who should contact you when on call)
[21:56] <cyberanger> there's definately tricks to deal with that
[21:59] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: i didn't understand that first one
[22:01] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: in google voice you have settings for each phone, only mobile phones have a setting for text messaging, you can set that off if you never use text messaging, just check in google voice or in your email for them instead (I've done this for cost savings)
[22:01] <cyberanger> also, you can tie contacts into groups, have the default policy be call nobody, your cell, your home phone, or a mixture, then calling groups for everything else
[22:02] <cyberanger> and you can set times when groups can call, or when a number is forwarded to (if you work a 9-5, no point calling home, so tell it not to forward at that time)
[22:04] <pace_t_zulu> so i can still text through google voice?
[22:05] <cyberanger> yep, both ways
[22:05] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: do you have an android phone
[22:06] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: iPhone
[22:06] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: that perhaps doesn't come as much of a surprise though ;)
[22:07] <cyberanger> yeah, wasn't thinking
[22:08] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: make sure you keep to the app, or you risk leaking your number
[22:08] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-voice/id318698524?mt=8
[22:09] <pace_t_zulu> leaking my google voice number?
[22:09] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: or my new private number?
[22:09] <cyberanger> no, your non-voice number
[22:09] <cyberanger> if you text directly from the iphone
[22:10] <cyberanger> there's different things with different phones, android (and looking at this, presume same designs apply iphone) is highly intregrated
[22:11] <cyberanger> but there are ways to gof
[22:11] <cyberanger> but there are ways to goof, have it leak
[22:12] <cyberanger> it's easy, hands on, describing it all though, could be easier
[22:13] <cyberanger> be back on tonight, meeting I gotta get to though
[22:13] <cyberanger> bbl


[09:55] <jester-> hi
[16:36] <alefteris> hi all, in #ubuntu-gr there are currently 3 ubuntu bots, would it be posible to just keep one, ubottu?
[16:37] <tsimpson> which bots are there?
[16:37] <alefteris> tsimpson, ubot3, ubotwo and ubottu
[16:37] <alefteris> :/
[16:38] <alefteris> but please, leave ubottu, as is't the one working with channel spesific factoids
[16:39] <tsimpson> all the bots should share all the factoids
[16:42] <tsimpson> LjL: do you have access to ubotwo?
[16:43] <LjL> tsimpson: yes
[16:43] <LjL> ubotwo works with channel specific factoids
[16:43] <LjL> it just sometimes stop working completely
[16:44] <alefteris> tsimpson, thats the theory, but is't not happening with the other bots
[16:48] <tsimpson> alefteris: does ubot3 have channel specific factoids?
[16:48] <tsimpson> like !ask and !paste
[16:49] <LjL> it does not
[16:49] <tsimpson> odd, it has the factoids
[16:49] <LjL> tsimpson: it did not until a couple of days ago at the very least
[16:50] <tsimpson> ask-#ubuntu-gr works in /msg to it
[16:50] <tsimpson> LjL: yeah, I think that was because the rsync address changed
[16:50] <LjL> uhm, i don't think it did until yesterday or the day before
[16:51] <tsimpson> then again, neither are working atm
[16:51] <tsimpson> anyway, if ubot3 works in -gr, I'd rather have ubottu part
[16:53] <tsimpson> it's already in > 40 channels
[16:54] <LjL> tsimpson: ubot3 works (once the mute on it has been removed)
[16:56] <alefteris> thanks guys :)
[17:27] <pleia2> can we get a logging loco bot in #ubuntu-us when someone has a chance?
[17:35] <Nafallo> ^-- jpds
[17:36] <Nafallo> or no wait. logbot... not sure who handles them.
[17:37] <pleia2> I don't remember either :)
[17:37] <Nafallo> ubuntu-eu.org, but not sure who that is :-P
[17:41] <tsimpson> #ubuntu-eu or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:00] <LjL> err
[18:00] <LjL> you *have* one...?
[18:00] <LjL> ah, #ubuntu-us, what am i thinking
[18:00] <Nafallo> LjL: sounds like not? ;-)
[19:32] <Nafallo> http://capitalstreamingmedia1.com:8000/
[19:32] <Nafallo> ehrm
[20:24] <Ienorand> Hello, is the "ban" of online chat clients (mibbit) in #ubuntu-se a permanent thing and is there any way to enter using mibbit? I am unable to use any other irc tube due to firewall restrictions.
[20:25] <jpds> ^-- Nafallo
[20:29] <Nafallo> Ienorand: there isn't no.
[20:29] <Nafallo> Ienorand: I think there is a chat on http://www.ubuntu-se.org though
[20:31] <Ienorand> Ah, found it, cheers
[20:37] <dantalizing> are the meeting commands for ubot2_ documented somewhere?
[20:43] <jussi01> . ubot2_ has meeting commands?
[20:44] <jussi01> o.O
[20:45] <dantalizing> no?
[20:59] <Nafallo> jpds: why is ubot2_ ubot2_ ?
[21:08]  * andol wonders if it would be possible to get an Ubuntu cloak?
[21:08] <andol> https://launchpad.net/~andol
[21:09] <Nik0> ping nalioth
[21:09] <Nik0> wait. :)
[21:09] <andol> Nik0: thanks
[21:42] <jussi01> andol, set your nick up correctly?
[21:42] <andol> jussi01: yes
[21:43] <jussi01> andol: ie. like this: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[21:43] <andol> jussi01: yes
[21:43] <jussi01> :) good. nal or Pricey can sort you then :)
[21:43] <andol> well, not sure about the hidemail part :)
[21:45] <Pricey> one sec
[21:46] <Pricey> andol: Done.
[21:48] <andol> Pricey: thanks
[22:54] <jpds> Nafallo: Dunno really.


 Ill be happy bout that
[03:01] <LaserJock> there are a huge number of security vulnerabilities in our current versions
[03:02] <nubae> Ill do a little dance for u
[03:02] <LaserJock> anyway, I'm not a moodle user, so my testing consists of "does it load in the browser?"
[03:02] <LaserJock> if I were to upload to a PPA would you be willing to test?
[03:03] <nubae> but of course
[03:03] <nubae> Im so heqvily involved in moodle dev, it kinda makes my stomach turn
[03:04] <LaserJock> what Ubuntu version could you test on?
[03:04] <nubae> but as u can probably guess I installed everything from source
[03:04] <nubae> dude
[03:04] <nubae> while u are qt it::: please package mahara
[03:05] <nubae> ill test on whatever u tell me, hqve a teaching conference coming in a couple weeks
[03:05] <nubae> zould be good time to test in the field
[03:06] <nubae> so whatcha think about what I mentioned yesterday
[03:07] <nubae> ogra didnt seem too thrilled
[03:07] <nubae> but the kde folkds are like 100 percent with us
[03:08] <nubae> qt first when u mentioned it I kinda was on the fence... but talking to them I got pretty convinced
[03:08] <LaserJock> well, I know what ogra was saying
[03:08] <LaserJock> we can't just drop gnome and say "we're a KDE shop now!!!"
[03:09] <nubae> its qbout undoing his work
[03:09] <LaserJock> but on the other hand we're certainly not "no KDE allowed" obviously
[03:09] <nubae> that shit happens all the time in osp
[03:09] <LaserJock> no, he pioneered a lot of it
[03:09] <LaserJock> he stuck by KDE Edu from the first
[03:09] <nubae> i know thqt
[03:10] <LaserJock> the thing is we're trying to shoot for DE neutrality
[03:10] <LaserJock> more than shifting from one to the other
[03:10] <nubae> and am the first to appreciate that... but must we start alking backwards?
[03:10] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[03:11] <nubae> walking
[03:11] <nubae> kde is clearly now the superior plqtform
[03:11] <LaserJock> well, that's somewhat irrelevent though
[03:12] <nubae> it wasnt when ogrq did all the wonderful stuff he did
[03:12] <nubae> no it isnt
[03:12] <LaserJock> well, it quite often was better
[03:12] <LaserJock> that's why we carried KDE deps forever
[03:12] <nubae> ze need the best damn edu platform to deploy
[03:12] <nubae> this is not about devs
[03:12] <LaserJock> because KDE Edu is a world class suite of software
[03:12] <nubae> this is about educators
[03:12] <LaserJock> exactly
[03:13] <LaserJock> whether those educators choose Gnome or KDE shouldn't matter
[03:13] <nubae> but they are kde guys LaserJock
[03:13] <LaserJock> great
[03:13] <LaserJock> so edubuntu-desktop-kde should rock!
[03:13] <LaserJock> and KDE Edu will continue to rock
[03:14] <nubae> we join we become 3 ti,es ,ore capable
[03:14] <nubae> right1
[03:14] <LaserJock> no, I don't think so actually
[03:14] <nubae> but focus should be on that noz
[03:14] <nubae> now
[03:14] <LaserJock> we're a distro, a distro does inherently different things than upstreams
[03:14] <nubae> god I hate this keyboqrd
[03:15] <LaserJock> I can usually understand you :-)
[03:15] <nubae> our upstream is edu
[03:15] <LaserJock> right
[03:15] <LaserJock> of all flavors
[03:15] <nubae> zo fuck the platform
[03:15] <LaserJock> so we work with KDE, we work with gnome, we work with moodle, we work with tux4kids
[03:15] <nubae> use whats best qt the moment
[03:16] <LaserJock> well, it's not that easy though
[03:16] <nubae> and u tell me what is that?
[03:16] <nubae> in terms of guys getting involed
[03:16] <LaserJock> you can't focus down on a single DE and the be switching back-n-forth all the time
[03:16] <nubae> in terms of appps that really work?
[03:17] <LaserJock> for getting people involved, we'd certianly welcome KDE people
[03:17] <LaserJock> that doesn't mean we're KDE-only
[03:17] <nubae> ok lets take a step bqck...
[03:17] <nubae> I never meant that at all
[03:18] <nubae> but we must make it clear we are not a gnome project
[03:18] <LaserJock> well, that's what I've been doing with most of my time in Jaunty
[03:18] <nubae> and that my friend is not obvious
[03:19] <nubae> i realise
[03:19] <LaserJock> right now edubuntu-desktop-kde is equal, finally
[03:19] <nubae> but u are one man
[03:19] <LaserJock> I talked with asegio
[03:19] <LaserJock> we've made neutral app bundles
[03:19] <nubae> get the damn help from these guys thqt are itching to join
[03:19] <LaserJock> well ...
[03:19] <LaserJock> the channels have always been open
[03:20] <LaserJock> people don't step up
[03:20] <nubae> i dont belive thqt
[03:20] <LaserJock> if they want to, I'm very very happy
[03:20] <nubae> I was told i person that u guys dont communicqte
[03:20] <LaserJock> but I've made quite a few calls for help, as has sbalneav, ogra, and others in the last couple years
[03:21] <nubae> ok, to zho?
[03:21] <LaserJock> and stgraber and I are the only ones left standing
[03:21] <nubae> jeez... who
[03:21] <LaserJock> to Planet Ubuntu
[03:21] <LaserJock> edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users
[03:21] <LaserJock> any time I've talked with upstreams I've said we're more than happy to collaborate and get help
[03:21] <nubae> i will join u soon; I promise... let me get the hang of pqckqging
[03:22] <nubae> but I also like the community binding part
[03:22] <LaserJock> sure
[03:22] <LaserJock> I mean, bottom line, it takes a lot of work to keep things running
[03:22] <LaserJock> and right now there isn't anybody to do it right
[03:22] <LaserJock> so yeah, we could do better at getting people involved
[03:23] <nubae> LaserJock u are thinking inisie the box
[03:23] <LaserJock> I'm thinking in current reality
[03:23] <LaserJock> so yeah, a bit inside the box
[03:23] <LaserJock> but I'm facing Feature Freeze in 9 days
[03:23] <nubae> no; u mentioned devel and users
[03:23] <nubae> sorry that is not the edu community
[03:24] <LaserJock> people want results, but very very few want to help
[03:24] <nubae> thats not even 10%
[03:24] <LaserJock> well, more *can* help than want
[03:24] <LaserJock> I know there are a lot of well-meaning people out there that would love to get involved and help
[03:24] <nubae> so do what u can, no one will ever be ungrqteful
[03:25] <LaserJock> but it currently takes around 1 year to "create" a dev
[03:25] <nubae> but we need to grow this community
[03:25] <LaserJock> and most people just won't make it
[03:25] <nubae> big time
[03:25] <LaserJock> I totally agree
[03:25] <LaserJock> I'd like to reach out more to upstream to try to get them involved
[03:25] <LaserJock> as they already know the software
[03:25] <LaserJock> they just need the packaging bits
[03:26] <LaserJock> but a lot of them are already overloaded, and I've really had very little success with getting upstreams deeply involved
[03:26] <nubae> ok, why dont we try this for a testing period
[03:26] <nubae> let ,e be the communicqtor
[03:26] <nubae> between attrqcting talent
[03:27] <nubae> i know the technics... I know the politics
[03:27] <nubae> in fact I belive i would be more help ther than on strqight dev
[03:28] <LaserJock> well, I understand what you're saying
[03:28] <LaserJock> but what happens if we attract some people?
[03:28] <LaserJock> if say a KDE dev emails the list and says "how can I help?", what do we do?
[03:31] <nubae> isnt that any easy quetion to answer?
[03:31] <LaserJock> no, it's not
[03:31] <nubae> explqin
[03:31] <nubae> fucking keyboard
[03:31] <LaserJock> right now I'd have to say "go spend 6 months learning packaging and get back to me"
[03:32] <nubae> wait wait wait
[03:32] <nubae> their job would be to integrqte edubuntu into jde
[03:32] <nubae> kde
[03:33] <nubae> qlong zith plas,oids I mentioned yestereday
[03:34] <LaserJock> well
[03:34] <LaserJock> that's more a KDE thing
[03:35] <LaserJock> I mean, I don't see plasmoids, etc. as really a Edubuntu-specific thing
[03:35] <LaserJock> so you're talking more about people developing *for* Edubuntu, not people *developing* Edubuntu
[03:35] <LaserJock> right?
[03:36] <nubae> absoliutely
[03:36] <nubae> does the platform matter?
[03:36] <LaserJock> well
[03:37] <LaserJock> the problem is I need people actually putting Edubuntu together
[03:37] <nubae> ze trying to get ,ore users... or force the, to use mostly crqp
[03:37] <nubae> sugqr is another great example of thqt
[03:37] <LaserJock> people writing plasmoids and stuff is great
[03:37] <LaserJock> but that's a pretty upstream task
[03:38] <LaserJock> though one we can certainly play a role in
[03:38] <LaserJock> but if people write 30 new apps for Edubuntu and yet nobody is there to make sure the packaging is maintained, we're not in a good position
[03:41] <LaserJock> I'd really like to see Edubuntu expand and offer more and more to users
[03:41] <nubae> ok, maybe this is just ,y ignorance
[03:41] <LaserJock> but I think our first priority needs to be making sure that the current stuff actually works
[03:41] <nubae> isnt packagn the same for kde folks qs for gno,e folks?
[03:42] <LaserJock> no
[03:42] <nubae> hmmm
[03:42] <LaserJock> it's like two different worlds :-)
[03:42] <LaserJock> and that doesn't really matter
[03:42] <nubae> now I get u then
[03:42] <LaserJock> I don't have gnome people
[03:42] <LaserJock> it's just me for everything but LTSP
[03:42] <nubae> sorry debiqn/ubuntu
[03:43] <LaserJock> what do you mean?
[03:44] <LaserJock> is the packaging different between the two?
[03:46] <nubae> no no::: I meqn differentation between kde gnome
[03:46] <LaserJock> ok
[03:47] <LaserJock> well KDE packaging is fairly different
[03:47] <LaserJock> it's pretty well organized and standardized though
[03:47] <nubae> but cqn u guys synchro?
[03:48] <LaserJock> between Debian and Ubuntu?
[03:48] <nubae> well stupid auesstion::
[03:48] <nubae> u do already zith kdeedu
[03:48] <nubae> no kde gno,e
[03:49] <LaserJock> I don't know what you'd syncronize
[03:49] <nubae> fuck fuck fuck:::: killl me noz::: never ,qke ,e use q belgiqn keyboqrd again
[03:49] <nubae> packaging
[03:50] <LaserJock> well, they're just totally different things
[03:50] <LaserJock> the thing is with most gnome apps is they have no consistency
[03:50] <nubae> ok more simply... can u guys zork together to mqke q common structure?
[03:50] <LaserJock> no
[03:51] <LaserJock> there's just too many things going on
[03:51] <LaserJock> you'd have to coordinate a lot of people, and a lot of people will disagree
[03:51] <nubae> ok... so use packagekit
[03:51] <nubae> or s,qrt
[03:51] <nubae> smart
[03:51] <LaserJock> that doesn't help
[03:51] <nubae> zork together dammit
[03:51] <nubae> zork... funny
[03:52] <LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't change anything
[03:52] <LaserJock> gnome/kde packaging style differences is not a big deal
[03:52] <nubae> yes it does... it brings a commonly focused community togethere
[03:52] <nubae> more than one ltsp and gnome guy
[03:53] <LaserJock> well, but it really doesn't do much
[03:53] <nubae> and suddenly a bunch o f edu guys::: even getting paid for what they do
[03:53] <LaserJock> packaging is done basically on a per/app basis
[03:53] <nubae> so????
[03:53] <LaserJock> well, so I'm not sure what  you're trying to achieve
[03:54] <nubae> its community plqnning and organizing
[03:54] <LaserJock> oh, well we can do that
[03:54] <LaserJock> but we need a community
[03:54] <nubae> we do what u stqrted... an objective, mission statement
[03:55] <nubae> but one big enough where it matters ands it not just ( members at most
[03:55] <nubae> I dont wanna make ya feel vad really
[03:56] <LaserJock> well, I like the current doc ok
[03:56] <LaserJock> for now
[03:56] <nubae> I just wanna see this wonderful group of people be successful
[03:56] <LaserJock> as we grow we can grow it
[03:56] <LaserJock> but I don't know if you can make it much bigger without it being kinda useless
[03:57] <nubae> useless
[03:57] <nubae> ok? what negative ,ind set brought that on?
[03:57] <nubae> sorry, I, euro; I can be a bit blunt at times
[03:58] <LaserJock> well
[03:59] <LaserJock> what I mean is, if you paint *too* large of a misson/objective it's very difficult to get down to specifics and people aren't really very focused
[03:59] <LaserJock> you know what I mean?
[04:01] <LaserJock> nubae: btw, do you know of any good ways to get Edubuntu disks or like the Ubuntu DVD
[04:06] <nubae> how do u mean
[04:06] <nubae> physically?
[04:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:08] <LaserJock> I got an email from a teacher in the US who is doing a workshop for ~ 100 technology coordinators from all over the world
[04:08] <LaserJock> he's wondering how to get some CDs/DVDs to pass out
[04:09] <LaserJock> grrr, 239 open bugs and 208 unassigned
[04:10] <nubae> wai... ubuntu cds or edubuntu qddoncds?
[04:11] <LaserJock> well, he says DVDs
[04:11] <nubae> ok so must meqn the entire suite
[04:12] <nubae> well had u asked me 2 ago
[04:12] <nubae> I wass at fossdem wherer I got free cds from everyone imqginqble
[04:13] <nubae> U could hqve seriously helped
[04:13] <nubae> ill talk to riched if  see hi,
[04:13] <nubae> him
[04:14] <LaserJock> I don't know what to tell people other than to buy them online
[04:14] <nubae> dude why should gcompris go in games?
[04:15] <nubae> its totally a teacher app especialllcy with the ,onitoring tools
[04:16] <nubae> in fqct sugar is moddeling their entire teacher ,onitoring suite on it
[04:16] <LaserJock> well, because that's what it calls itself
[04:16] <LaserJock> an educational game
[04:16] <LaserJock> we basically do games == preschool
[04:17] <nubae> ok? maybz u dont need my opinion but that just confuses
[04:17] <nubae> if its edu
[04:17] <nubae> put it edu
[04:17] <LaserJock> well, it is in edu
[04:17] <LaserJock> it's just edu -> games
[04:17] <LaserJock> well
[04:17] <LaserJock> on the installer anyway
[04:17] <LaserJock> in the application menu it's split up I think
[04:18] <LaserJock> gcompris is in games and the admin tool is somewhere else, maybe Other
[04:19] <nubae> aha
[04:19] <LaserJock> if we put everything edu in Education then it gets pretty overloaded
[04:19] <nubae> not at all
[04:20] <nubae> then it looks like we hqve qn edu suite
[04:20] <LaserJock> no, but like 30 apps in there isn't going to do very well
[04:20] <nubae> we cqn subsplit them
[04:21] <LaserJock> that's what edubuntu-menus is for
[04:21] <LaserJock> which we need to finish
[04:21] <nubae> so what co,plicq-ate sg-shit?
[04:22] <LaserJock> well, we need a GUI that runs the alacarte menu editor, then fix up the results
[04:23] <nubae> or sorry are you saying iy nrrds to be done that way in the edu menu?
[04:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:23] <nubae> ok
[04:23] <LaserJock> we can't change the normal menu
[04:23] <LaserJock> but we can use edubuntu-menus
[04:23] <nubae> y not?
[04:24] <LaserJock> because Gnome just implements the XDG standard
[04:24] <LaserJock> and it does so with only one level of menus
[04:24] <nubae> that doesnt meqn anything to me
[04:24] <LaserJock> well, essentially it means that the Applications menu is pre-determined
[04:25] <LaserJock> unless you override it as we do with edubuntu-menus
[04:25] <nubae> y?
[04:25] <LaserJock> well, because there's a menu standard
[04:26] <LaserJock> so we have to override the standard to do anything different
[04:26] <nubae> so?
[04:26] <LaserJock> well, so our way to do that is edubuntu-menus and we haven't finished it
[04:26] <LaserJock> because we lack a GUI to allow for editing the menus
[04:26] <nubae> ok
[04:28] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to take edubuntu-desktop-kde off the .iso
[04:29] <LaserJock> at least if we want it to be self-consistent, which I think we do
[04:29] <nubae> i gotta get some sleep... but pleqse lets cntinue this conv.
[04:29] <nubae> ze do
[04:30] <nubae> u are totally correct
[04:30] <nubae> gnight
[04:34] <LaserJock> bah, why the heck is moodle installing both mysql and postgresql bits
[04:47] <LaserJock> geeze, had to track it way back to apr-util
[05:00] <beachsurfin> could someone please specify to me what type of thin clients could be used w/ edubuntu?
[05:01] <LaserJock> it sort of depends on the server I think
[05:01] <beachsurfin> wouldn't it be difficult to use blender is such a setup?
[05:01] <LaserJock> beachsurfin: you might want to try #ltsp actually
[05:01] <LaserJock> it probably would
[05:01] <LaserJock> you'd probably want to go with a fat-client setup for that
[05:01] <beachsurfin> thanks LaserJock
[05:24] <marabout> LaserJock:  OK as I want to set up a network using Ubuntu for my children so I figured that was the way to go..?
[05:24] <marabout> *Edubuntu rather
[05:25] <LaserJock> marabout: how many machines?
[05:26] <marabout> LaserJock:  I have 2-3 right now, compaq 5000US, emachine T3046, and a G3 mac tower
[05:33] <marabout> LaserJock:  any insights, tips...? or I guess it is all pretty straight forward
[05:34] <LaserJock> well, I just wonder if LTSP is going to be worthwile for you
[05:34] <LaserJock> having 1 machine to administer rather than 3 is certainly nice
[05:35] <LaserJock> but if the setup turns out to be not straightforward it might not be worth it
[05:35] <LaserJock> you can *certainly* give it a shot and see if it works out for you
[05:35] <LaserJock> and if it doesn't just go with non-LTSP installs
[05:35] <LaserJock> marabout: and if you need some LTSP help the #ltsp channel is a great resource
[05:36] <marabout> LaserJock:  Ok thanks will do. Take care
[05:37] <LaserJock> have fun
[07:13] <nubae> LaserJock pleqse take out the postgres mess from the moodle installer
[07:14] <nubae> it makes no sense and on top of it breaks
[07:20] <LaserJock> nubae: we're trying to figure that out
[07:20] <LaserJock> nubae: Debian wants to take our changes
[07:20] <LaserJock> but we need to figure out how to deal with the DBs
[07:21] <nubae> i hace so much animosity to some of these purists
[07:21] <LaserJock> well, I'm getting a lot of mixed messages here
[07:22] <LaserJock> a lot of people want mysql, a lot of people don't
[07:22] <LaserJock> since moodle can use either I don't see how we can lock people into just one
[07:22] <nubae> we STILL dnt have libabiword co,piled into abizord (./configure --enqble-libabiword) for 8 god ddamned months
[07:23] <LaserJock> welcome to my world :-)
[07:24] <nubae> dont believe that... I work in the field (moodle), its what I curre"ntly get pai for
[07:25] <nubae> only ever seen one postgres install and when they get that big, they figure out hoz to installl the,selves
[07:25] <nubae> mysal, is plenty and used by th ! deployments I currently work with
[07:26] <LaserJock> I know, but as soon as I lock into mysql I'll get all kinds of bug reports about postgresql
[07:26] <LaserJock> if we can make the choosing work, we should do it
[07:26] <LaserJock> if not, then we can talk about choosing one
[07:27] <LaserJock> if people install via edubuntu-server they'll get postgresql and it should all work ok right now
[07:27] <nubae> jeezzz fucking numbers are reveresed on begliqn keyboard... hqve to press shift plus number to get number :) 8 deps I meant
[07:28] <nubae> LaserJock fqr greater gurus thqn u hqve tried (olpc for one) and gqve up
[07:28] <nubae> tond give urself thqt headache plese
[07:29] <nubae> dont focus on the shinny bits as Martiin Langhoff is fa,ous for saying
[07:29] <LaserJock> ok, but I'm not sure I exactly have a choice here
[07:31] <nubae> y the hell not?
[07:31] <nubae> qho forces u to put postgres in the packages?
[07:31] <nubae> qnd then cause ,oodle to fail installing
[07:32] <LaserJock> well, postgresql doesn't make it fail
[07:32] <LaserJock> having 2 different DBs does
[07:32] <nubae> give q nqme qnd I`ll go beat them with my seaqel stick
[07:32] <nubae> so then take postgres out
[07:32] <LaserJock> but I think it's general policy that if a package can support multiple DBs then the packaging should as well
[07:33] <nubae> it is by fqr the most unused
[07:33] <nubae> qnd anyone wanting to use it knows how to instqll it believe me
[07:33] <nubae> no rocket science
[07:33] <nubae> Ive done it
[07:33] <nubae> qnd im not even q dev
[07:36] <LaserJock> I can talk with the Server Team and see what they think
[07:37] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure we can drop to 1 DB
[07:37] <nubae> it works like thqt zith every other distro
[07:38] <nubae> lqve the dbe in, just dont codependit
[07:38] <nubae> bt... did u get to see the litte utube video of the kids using the xos in graz
[07:38] <nubae> check my page
[07:40] <LaserJock> waht do you mean by codependent?
[07:42] <nubae> i meqn instqll mysql with moodle
[07:42] <nubae> make postgres qs q db availabke but not installed into moodle
[07:43] <nubae> no choice
[07:43]  * nubae is going to kill himself if he needs to use q belgian keyboqrd qny longer
[07:43] <LaserJock> I suppose, but if you want postgresql that means you have to have mysql installed to get moodle from apt
[07:44] <LaserJock> nubae: that video is pretty fun
[07:44] <nubae> dude... for someone who knows how to both instqll and manage postgres; unsinstalling mysql is not too hard
[07:44] <nubae> believe ,e
[07:44] <nubae> me
[07:45] <LaserJock> no, I mean they'd lose moodle as well
[07:45] <LaserJock> so the options are:
[07:45] <nubae> first deployment in Europe!
[07:45] <LaserJock> 1) mysql + our moodle
[07:45] <nubae> no why
[07:45] <nubae> right
[07:45] <LaserJock> 2) postgresql + mysql + our moodle
[07:45] <nubae> no
[07:45] <LaserJock> 3) postgresql + not our moodle
[07:46] <nubae> that doesnt and will nevver zork
[07:46] <nubae> option 3
[07:46] <nubae> option 1 as defqult
[07:46] <LaserJock> if mysql is a dep then if you remove it you remove moodle
[07:47] <nubae> if u qre using moodle
[07:47] <LaserJock> so people are stuck in one of those 3 options
[07:47] <nubae> its highly unlikely ud be re,oving ,ysql
[07:47] <nubae> give people some credit
[07:47] <LaserJock> why?
[07:47] <nubae> cquse they knoz the 2 are connected
[07:47] <LaserJock> I mean, that's exactly what I'd do
[07:47] <nubae> qnd if they are postgres guys
[07:48] <LaserJock> so I wouldn't think it'd be *that* uncommon of a case
[07:48] <nubae> they knoz how to fix q postgres install in secs
[07:48] <LaserJock> ok, but that's not my point
[07:48] <LaserJock> installing postgresql is not the issue, it's moodle
[07:49] <nubae> ok what is?
[07:49] <nubae> yes it instqlls with the default server mysql
[07:49] <LaserJock> if I wanted to use postgresql I'm stuck with option 2 or 3
[07:49] <LaserJock> and I suspect people mostly don't want 2)
[07:50] <nubae> no::: then u usually  q highly trqined experience ad,in zho zould knoz in seconds hoz to uninstqll mysql qnd then postgres
[07:50] <LaserJock> so that leaves people with not installing moodle from the archives
[07:51] <nubae> there is q MASSIVE difference between the knowledge level of q postrgreser qnd and a mysqlr
[07:51] <LaserJock> but not in terms of just installing moodle
[07:51] <nubae> postgres is the oracle of the linux world
[07:51] <LaserJock> I can just as easily choose one or the other, no diff
[07:51] <nubae> its not needed
[07:51] <LaserJock> other than a lot of people I know like postgres better
[07:51] <LaserJock> so I usually go that route
[07:52] <nubae> it causes confusion and conflicts
[07:52] <LaserJock> right
[07:52] <nubae> its teachers installing this stuff
[07:52] <LaserJock> yep
[07:52] <nubae> of course they do, they qre devs
[07:52] <nubae> co talk to some teachers and ,mention posgres whatch their reaction
[07:53] <LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't really matter
[07:53] <LaserJock> mention mysql and you'll get a similar reaction
[07:53] <nubae> yes it does::: we want ,ore educqtors using our software
[07:54] <nubae> ze dont want to ,ake it co,plex and i,pôssible to install
[07:54] <nubae> no u zon
[07:54] <nubae> wont
[07:54] <nubae> educqtors knoz wat mysql is
[07:54] <nubae> cuqse its used in everything
[07:54] <nubae> zithin moodle it should be possible; but a coice mqdfe by qn qdmin
[07:55] <nubae> that make sense?
[07:56] <LaserJock> right
[07:56] <LaserJock> but my problem is if say the IT staff say they want postgresql
[07:56] <LaserJock> then the person can't use moodle from ubuntu
[07:56] <nubae> then let them go ahead and do it
[07:56] <nubae> its like ' lines of bqsh
[07:56] <nubae> zhere is the issue?
[07:57] <nubae> thats not true
[07:57] <LaserJock> the issue is, the point of packaging this stuff is so that users can install it
[07:57] <nubae> postgres exists qs q seperqte pqckqge
[07:57] <LaserJock> I know that
[07:57] <nubae> users!
[07:57] <LaserJock> but if moodle depends on mysql then they're screwed
[07:57] <nubae> admins instqll postgres
[07:58] <nubae> users install the base
[07:58] <LaserJock> users install it as well
[07:58] <nubae> instqll what as well postgres?
[07:58] <nubae> never
[07:58] <LaserJock> they are now!
[07:59] <nubae> qt least ive never seen it
[07:59] <LaserJock> we default to postgresql
[07:59] <LaserJock> so quite a few people are installing it
[07:59] <nubae> which doesnt zork my friend
[07:59] <LaserJock> postgresql works just fine
[07:59] <nubae> i have q how to on my zebsite to prove it
[08:00] <nubae> not zithin the moodle instqller
[08:00] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[08:01] <nubae> go qheqd qnd try install moodle right now
[08:01] <nubae> see what i mean
[08:03] <nubae> the postgres part fails
[08:04] <nubae> ive done it at least 5 times
[08:04] <nubae> same result
[08:05] <nubae> unless something changed of course, but I severely doubt it
[08:06] <LaserJock> ah right
[08:06] <LaserJock> I've got a pile of bug reports for that
[08:06] <nubae> hmmmm
[08:07] <LaserJock> but that's a problem with moodle's packaging I'm pretty sure
[08:07] <LaserJock> not postgresql
[08:07] <nubae> so what is the easizst most praxctical solution
[08:07] <nubae> right
[08:07] <nubae> take the ,other fucker out
[08:08] <LaserJock> dude, I realize what you're saying
[08:08] <LaserJock> I don't like having to worry about this stuff
[08:08] <LaserJock> but I don't always get to do it the easy way
[08:08] <nubae> let experienced admins choose it when they need it (1000+° users
[08:09] <LaserJock> I'll be talking to Debian and the Server Team about it
[08:09] <nubae> ok
[08:09] <LaserJock> Debian was OK with using postgresql
[08:09] <nubae> cool
[08:09] <nubae> fuck debiqn in this cae
[08:09] <LaserJock> but I'll double check
[08:09] <nubae> they screwed up enough shit alreqdy
[08:10] <LaserJock> well, they've really stepped up with the new maintainers
[08:10] <LaserJock> who include a moodle developer
[08:10] <nubae> for moodle really?
[08:10] <nubae> then y u fixing the issue?
[08:11] <nubae> its not a ubuntu bug
[08:11] <LaserJock> because it needs to be done now
[08:11] <LaserJock> well, it is, sorta
[08:11] <LaserJock> we totally redid the debconf stuff
[08:11] <nubae> yeah, I gqvee u workable solution
[08:12] <LaserJock> well, it's not exactly an easy solution
[08:12] <LaserJock> it's not bad, but not trivial either
[08:12] <nubae> we do not need to 2 dbs for moodle
[08:13] <nubae> ze need the most common zorkable one
[08:13] <LaserJock> well, that's not exactly the traditional way we do things
[08:13] <nubae> k enough nbeed to get breqkfqst, its 9 here
[08:13] <LaserJock> but it may need to happen in this case
[08:13] <LaserJock> I need to get to bed
[08:14] <nubae> do it
[08:14] <nubae> sleep my good friend
[08:14] <LaserJock> I'll keep poking people about it though
[08:14] <LaserJock> we'll either fix it up or go with 1
[08:14] <LaserJock> the current situation isn't very good
[08:14] <nubae> no it sucks
[08:15] <nubae> no one installs from repos
[08:15] <nubae> thqt is a big no no
[08:16] <LaserJock> night
[08:16] <nubae> ok sleep well
[09:29] <Nubae-laptop> alkisg: u there?
[09:41] <alkisg> Nubae-laptop: yup
[09:41] <alkisg> (classroom break :P)
[18:40] <LaserJock> nubae: I talked with one of the Debian moodle maintainers
[18:41] <LaserJock> nubae: they suggested that maybe dbconfig-common could help us out
[19:22] <Ahmuck> does ubuntu ltsp have a admin management user/console?
[19:22] <Ahmuck> outside of sudo?
[20:01] <Lns> Ahmuck: what do you mean admin management user/console?
[20:01] <Ahmuck> outside of sudo.  like jr-admin
[20:01] <Ahmuck> for user add, passwd, vbox managment, etc.
[20:05] <ogra> since you do all that on a normal ubuntu machine, you use System->Administration usually
[20:06] <ogra> vbox brings its own interface no need to duplicate that
[20:07] <Ahmuck> system-admin usualy requires sudo access ?
[20:19] <flyingsquirrel32> How do I modify my dhcp.conf to make my LTSP install work with a single nic?
[20:20] <ogra> if your NIC IP matches the network defined in the file you dont need to modify it at all
[20:21] <ogra> dont forget that ubuntu ltsp uses /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf though
[20:23] <LaserJock> ogra: somehow I've managed to become part of the moodle maintainers in Debian ;-)
[20:23] <ogra> wohoo
[20:23] <LaserJock> ogra: they're really making a lot of improvements and they want to work with Ubuntu quite a bit
[20:23] <ogra> cool !
[20:23] <LaserJock> they were even linking up CVEs in LP, etc.
[20:24] <ogra> i wonder if we should move moodle out of main though
[20:24] <LaserJock> I wonder
[20:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[20:24] <ogra> that would loosen the deps
[20:24] <LaserJock> we could make edubuntu-server be in Universe
[20:24] <LaserJock> not worry about it on the CD
[20:24] <ogra> postgres is the main DB because its in main
[20:24] <LaserJock> mysql is in Main as well though isn't it?
[20:25] <ogra> though there was a contract about e-s at some point
[20:25] <ogra> yes, it wasnt when moodle came in though
[20:25] <LaserJock> ah
[20:25] <ogra> and postgres was the supported DB
[20:25] <LaserJock> well, Debian suggested looking into dbconfig-common
[20:25] <LaserJock> which is in Main
[20:25] <ogra> right
[20:26] <LaserJock> I think the big problem is the embedded libraries
[20:26] <ogra> probably best is to talk to the server team to ask them what they suggest
[20:26] <LaserJock> it's sort of weird, but I think getting all the deps in Main might be pretty hard
[20:26] <ogra> is there still so much ?
[20:26] <LaserJock> quite a few, but a lot of the packaged ones are in Universe
[20:26] <ogra> shouldnt be
[20:27] <LaserJock> I filed a MIR for smarty
[20:27] <LaserJock> but yui would require javascript-common and wwwconfig-common
[20:27] <LaserJock> not sure about the others yet
[20:27] <ogra> they were in main already, just make sure you follow an advice of the security team to have them split out
[20:27] <ogra> and that it was our initiative that convinced upstream
[20:27] <ogra> so we have a responsibility imho
[20:27] <LaserJock> well, the problem in some cases is that the packaged versions have deps we don't want
[20:27] <LaserJock> in Main anyway
[20:28] <ogra> wwwconfig-common is a nono
[20:28] <LaserJock> even though the embedded version doesn't require them
[20:28] <ogra> that needs to be worked around
[20:28] <LaserJock> right, just not something I'm going to do in a weekend ;-)
[20:28] <ogra> no idea about javascript-common, its the first time i see it
[20:28] <LaserJock> I've seen it a few times
[20:28] <ogra> our package shouldnt have any deps on wwwconfig-common
[20:28] <ogra> since it entered main
[20:29] <LaserJock> I know
[20:29] <LaserJock> and it doesn't
[20:29] <ogra> right, thats a delta we always carried
[20:29] <LaserJock> the problem is that the Debian-packaged version of the embedded libs *do* dep on it
[20:30] <ogra> hmm
[20:30] <LaserJock> so the concern is tracking down all the maintainers for the split out libs
[20:30] <LaserJock> and making sure they're not using wwwconfig-common or whatever else would cause problems
[20:31] <LaserJock> so if we could drop edubunt-server and moodle to Universe for a while until we get that all figured out
[20:31] <LaserJock> we could also include some other good apps like mahara
[20:33] <LaserJock> I don't know if dropping it from Main would cause any issues for Canonical or not
[20:44] <ogra> supportability
[21:06] <LaserJock> ogra: my plan regarding embedded libs was to just do what I can and keep the internal copies of the ones I can get into Main for now
[21:07] <LaserJock> for right now only smarty and yui have been split out by Debian
[21:07] <LaserJock> 1 I can get into Main, the other not right now
[21:07] <ogra> yeah, sounds like a good plan
[21:08] <LaserJock> for Jaunty+1 we can take another look
[21:09] <LaserJock> I told the Debian maintainers that we don't want wwwconfig-common
[21:09] <LaserJock> and they said they'd looked over our changes to moodle and were ok with them
[21:09] <LaserJock> so I'm hoping to have by Alpha 5 a almost completly syncable moodle
[21:12] <ogra> cool
[21:39] <flyingsquirrel32> ogra: Thanks for the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf tip. That explains things...
[21:43] <Ahmuck> back
[22:42] <paulgm> Is there an edubuntu livecd?  I can't find it anywhere on the site, only an addon CD for an existing ubuntu
[22:53] <LaserJock> paulgm: no, there isn't a livecd
[22:53] <LaserJock> paulgm: it wouldn't nearly fit
[23:11] <paulgm> That's a shame.  I'd like to show this to a local library that has asked me to sort out the group of PCs they let kids play around on.
[23:11] <paulgm> No chance of getting it on a DVD either?
[23:11] <LaserJock> well, I'm looking at that right now
[23:12] <LaserJock> the edu stuff is on the DVD
[23:12] <LaserJock> but it's not "installed" in the Live part
[23:12] <LaserJock> I'm trying to do it to see if it works right now
[23:13] <LaserJock> darn, ran out of RAM
[23:14] <LaserJock> paulgm: I think it'd work if you have enough RAM to load the stuff in
[23:14] <LaserJock> paulgm: you can load the DVD, then install the Edu stuff you want
[23:16] <LaserJock> paulgm: another option, if you're up for it, would be to make your own Live disk using something like Ubuntu Customization Kit (UCK)
[23:19] <LaserJock> paulgm: we just don't have the resources to maintain a DVD on our own right now and the CD doesn't have nearly enough space for all the educational apps
[23:21] <paulgm> Sure, I understand.  I hadn't heard about the Ubuntu Construction Kit - I'll go have a play and see what I can come up with.
[23:22] <paulgm> Thanks for the help :)
[23:22] <LaserJock> paulgm: no problem
[23:28] <loic-m_> paulgm: you could also install first it on a usb key or an external harddrive (provided the computer support booting on USB devices, or else you swap the hd)
[23:31] <LaserJock> or you can bring in a laptop
[23:48] <flyingsquirrel32> How can I add screen resolutions to my ltsp client?