[07:04] <stgraber> I just uploaded a new version of lxd to the store, no change to policy, would be nice if it could go through soon, we've had a few folks complaining that 0.21 was a bit dated (by about 6 months :))
[07:04] <stgraber> jdstrand: ^
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[07:41] <didrocks> good morning dholbach
[07:48] <dholbach> salut didrocks
[08:05] <noizer> good morning!
[08:33] <noizer> How can I see that my custom seccomp and apparmor file is applied to my snap?
[08:59] <noizer> jdstrand:   can I see that my custom seccomp and apparmor file is applied to my snap?
[09:18] <mvo> willcooke, dpm: good news, the most recent snappy upload to xenail (should hit xenial-proposed with the next publishing) will have unity7 integration, i.e. nothing (hopefulyl) more to do. install cap-test and it will show up in dash searches etc (make sure you restart your session once after updating snappy because it installs a Xsession.d file for this). I'm very excited!
[09:19] <willcooke> mvo \m/
[09:19] <willcooke> mvo, thank you!!!
[09:19] <willcooke> Trevinho, ^^
[09:19] <dpm> mvo, awesome! I just managed to upload calculator to the store, for which I included the .desktop file support. I'll go ahead and test that too!
[09:19] <dpm> just literally a few minutes ago
[09:20] <dpm> so I'll give unity 7 integration a spin once I see the new snappy package in the archive
[09:23] <mvo> dpm: yeah, xenial-proposed, there is a build failure on powepc that I look at next so it won't promote right away
[09:23] <dpm> ok
[09:23] <mvo> dpm: but you can directly grab the two debs from LP if you are eager to test :)
[09:23] <mvo> dpm: plus the updated ubuntu-core-launcher but that will come as a normal update
[09:24] <dpm> mvo, thanks. I am eager :), but I think I'll wait if it's just a matter of hours, which might save me some extra fiddling
[09:26] <zyga> o/
[09:27] <zyga> noizer: yes, look at /var/lib/snappy/{apparmor,seccomp}
[09:27] <mvo> dpm: you are eager and WISE at the same time :)
[09:27] <dpm> lol
[09:30] <noizer> zyga:  ok i was looking at the correct files but with security-policy it doesn't work. http://pastebin.com/DmAdrhU3
[09:36] <noizer> zyga: do you have any clue why my apparmor and seccomp files doesn't apply to my snap?
[09:37] <dpm> mvo, how do updates to the ubuntu-core snap happen on the desktop? It is a bit like magic to me. I've tried "sudo snappy upgrade ubuntu-core" a few times and it tells me there are no new versions. Yet every now and then I see it updated automagically when I run "snappy list --verbose". So I'm not sure if this is something that needs to be manually maintained (and how?) or is autoupdated
[09:37] <zyga> noizer: s/slots/plugs/ -- use the lastest released snapcraft (just released yesterday AFAIR) and it should work
[09:37] <zyga> noizer: good luck
[09:37] <zyga> noizer: sorry about the swap, it's stabilizing now
[09:37] <noizer> Just switch between slots and plugs?
[09:37] <zyga> noizer: you'll have access to many useful interfaces next week (+1/-1 image release)
[09:38] <zyga> ye0
[09:38] <zyga> yes
[09:39] <noizer> But to be honest i think i need an unconfined snap just for my thing. So i try to make it by changing the apparmor and seccomp file
[09:42] <Trevinho> mvo: great to hear
[09:50] <noizer> zyga ok thx with plugs it works to edit the apparmor just need to see that mine apparmor is correct but now it fails
[09:52] <zyga> noizer: sorry, I don't get the last part ;; what failed?
[09:56] <noizer> wait i got the following error when I'm installing my snap with a custom apparmor
[09:57] <noizer> zyga:  error, unexpected TOK_ID, expecting TOK_END_OF_RULE
[10:01] <noizer> zyga: thats an error of mine apparmor
[10:02] <zyga> noizer: yeah, I think your apparmor is just wrongly spelled
[10:02] <zyga> noizer: btw there's an unconfined template that you can reference
[10:03] <zyga> noizer: look at your desktop
[10:03] <ysionneau> ah, snapcraft has been updated yesterday with the plugs/slots switch o/
[10:04] <ysionneau> cool
[10:04] <zyga> noizer: dpkg -L ubuntu-core-security-apparmor
[10:04] <zyga> ysionneau: yep
[10:48] <ysionneau> hmm would there be any interest in chrooting into $SNAP (after doing some bind mounts) ?
[10:48] <ysionneau> I mean, before running an app
[10:48] <zyga> ysionneau: why?
[10:48] <ysionneau> that would for instance allow the app to use hard coded absolute paths
[10:48] <zyga> ysionneau: and not allowed to do many other things
[10:48] <zyga> ysionneau: I don't think this is needed
[10:49] <ysionneau> this could be useful for some apps I  think, so that you don't have much work to "port" them to snappy
[10:50] <ysionneau> instead of having to rewrite lots of code
[10:50] <ogra_> i doubt chroot will be allowed by seccomp
[10:50] <ysionneau> That could be an option in the snapcraft.yaml like "chroot: yes"
[10:52] <ogra_> bu tthat doesnt stop you from shipping a full rootfs if you want and bend the env to completely use it
[10:52] <ogra_> which would be close to a chroot
[10:54] <ysionneau> what do you mean by "bend the env" ?
[10:54] <ysionneau> I'm not sure there is a trick to allow an app to write to "/var/lib/<something>"
[10:54] <ysionneau> other than chrooting
[10:55] <ogra_> well, pretty much what the ubuntu-core-launcher does already but also make it use the shipped toolchain, linker, libc
[10:55] <ysionneau> or maybe an LD_PRELOAD to hook open()
[10:56] <ogra_> as long as $SNAP and $SNAP_DATA are on the same device you might be able to use hgardlinks for writable bits and dirs
[10:57] <ysionneau> but, whatever I do, /var/lib/ will stay read-only
[10:58] <ysionneau> that's my main issue
[10:58] <ogra_> change it to ./var/lib then :)
[10:59] <ogra_> (indeed that might mean to recompile the world ... i didnt say its easy ;) )
[11:01] <ysionneau> the thing is, there are lots of occurence of this type of issues in the different softwares I want to "port" to snappy
[11:01] <ysionneau> so I'm not a big fan of this solution
[11:01] <ysionneau> (by solution here I mean pushing fixes in the code everywhere to use env VAR instead of hard coded absolute paths)
[11:02] <ogra_> indeed ...
[11:02] <ogra_> dont you need to just re-do the linker path though ?
[11:04] <noizer> zyga: the unconfined template can he make some calls to /snaps/bin/... ?
[11:04] <ogra_> noizer, unconfined apps have all the power a natively installed deb would have
[11:05] <noizer> so he can exectute all things?
[11:05] <ysionneau> 12:02 < ogra_> dont you need to just re-do the linker path though ?  < I'm talking about normal "open()" here, not library paths issues
[11:05] <ogra_> (its just the paths and workdir that are different then ... )
[11:05] <ysionneau> or maybe I don't understand what you propose :o
[11:05] <ogra_> oh, open() in your code, i see
[11:05] <ogra_> well, if you cant get around that one, you can always use lxd or docker
[11:06] <ysionneau> ah, interesting!
[11:06] <ogra_> that equivalent to a chroot i'd say (just a bit more secure)
[11:06] <ysionneau> thanks!
[11:06] <ysionneau> will think about that :)
[11:26] <zyga> noizer: maybe not
[11:26] <zyga> noizer: it's not so simple
[11:26] <zyga> noizer: you cannot change aa profile anyway *AFAIR*
[11:27] <noizer> zyga:   do you mean with AFAIR
[11:27] <zyga> noizer: as far as I remember
[11:27] <zyga> noizer: it's not identical to really unconfined
[11:27] <zyga> noizer: but it very broadly permissive
[11:28] <noizer> zyga: What I now did is took an empty apparmor and try to execute an binary from /snaps/bin/
[11:28] <noizer> I see it is then possible to execute the binary
[11:29] <noizer> zyga: But then i see the following error:
[11:29] <noizer> error: /bin/sh: error while loading shared libraries: libc.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[11:29] <zyga> noizer: I don't think that will work
[11:30] <zyga> noizer: try doing what I said
[11:30] <zyga> noizer: use old-security and unconfined template
[11:30] <noizer> ok
[11:31] <noizer> zyga: then i should be able to execute the binary?
[11:32] <noizer> zyga: got then following error: aa_change_onexec failed with -1. errmsg: Permission denied
[11:39] <ogra_> noizer, why didnt you fiollow jdstrand's advise from yesterday ?
[11:39] <ogra_> *advice
[11:39] <zyga> noizer: that's exactly what I said
[11:39] <zyga> noizer: you cannot change aa profiles
[11:39] <zyga> ogra_: what was the advice?
[11:40] <ogra_> zyga, i gave him an existing (outdated) unconfined snapcraft.yaml and jamie gave all hints to adapt it to the new interfaces setup
[11:41] <ogra_> there is no need to fiddle with apparmor files
[11:41] <zyga> ogra_: i suspect that unless there were explicit changes somewhere you still cannot (even unconfined) run other snaps from your snap
[11:42] <ogra_> why not ?
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: it's not allowed, even for unconfined programs (that are really confined but broadly permissive)
[11:42] <ogra_> unconfined has the same powers as a deb ... just that all paths and the workdirs are completely mangled
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: I went through this issue a few times
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: nope
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: that is not true
[11:42] <ogra_> i have an unconfined  debootstrap that woprks just fine
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: unconfined still gives you aa profile and seccomp profile and a cgroup for devices
[11:42] <zyga> ogra_: it's not the same as running from the ssh shell
[11:43] <ogra_> i dont see why an unconfined systemctl shouldnt be able to control services for example
[11:43] <zyga> ogra_: because that's what's spelled out in unconfined, we'd have to make super-unconfined that has extra powers
[11:43] <zyga> ogra_: FYI I'm not arguing with you; I'm just telling you how it really works today
[11:43] <ogra_> so unconfined changed ?
[11:43] <zyga> ogra_: no, it was always like that
[11:43] <ogra_> with the last iteration
[11:43] <zyga> ogra_: unconfined != not confined in practice
[11:44] <ogra_> right
[11:44] <zyga> ogra_: it was like that in 15.04
[11:44] <zyga> ogra_: and I suspect still is in 16.04
[11:44] <ogra_> well, unconfined in 15.04 lets me do everything with my system
[11:44] <ogra_> i dont think your seccomp assumption is true
[11:44] <zyga> ogra_: it's 100% true for aa
[11:44] <ogra_> but aa wont be used in unconfined
[11:44] <zyga> ogra_: you cannot load another aa profile while running unconfined profile
[11:45] <zyga> ogra_: it _is_
[11:45] <zyga> ogra_: 100% guaranteed it is
[11:45] <zyga> ogra_: we've been through this many times in cert
[11:45] <ogra_> you can not load another aa profile because aa_exec isnt in use at all
[11:45] <zyga> ogra_: I don't think this is true, in any case, as unconfined snap, you cannot run other snap's apps
[11:46] <ogra_> no, but youz can run thes system systemctl
[11:47] <zyga> ogra_: sure but the error that noizer saw is exactly what I was describing
[11:47] <zyga> ogra_: not related to systemctl
[11:49] <dholbach> dpm, so snapcraft seems to do just what click-review expects:
[11:49] <dholbach> snapcraft/commands/snap.py:    mksquashfs_args = ['-noappend', '-comp', 'xz', '-all-root', '-no-xattrs']
[11:51] <dholbach> and for snappy it's http://paste.ubuntu.com/15340831/
[11:51] <dholbach> the latter seems to miss "-all-root"
[11:52] <dholbach> that was in snap/squashfs/squashfs.go, but in obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/src/github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pkg/snapfs/pkg.go it has the "-all-root" option
[11:53] <dholbach> mvo, is there a reason that in one of the mksquashfs incantations the "-all-root" option is missing?
[11:53] <zyga> dholbach: (mvo went for lunch, may reply with lag)
[11:53] <dpm> dholbach, then perhaps an issue in click-review-tools? As I built the app with snapcraft, and I *think* LP does it with snapcraft as well
[11:54] <dholbach> zyga, thanks
[11:54] <ogra_> dholbach, --all-root means that all your files are chowned to root inside the squashfs ... probably not wanted in all cases
[11:54] <dholbach> dpm, it might, yes
[11:55] <ogra_> (definitely not for os snaps for example)
[11:55] <dholbach> dpm, I just thought I'd check all incantations first :)
[11:55] <dpm> makes sense, thanks dholbach :)
[11:56] <noizer> zyga: So as conclusion it is not possible at all what I want even when i get my custom aa?
[11:57] <noizer> zyga: or does i understand it completly wrong?
[12:01] <zyga> noizer: you'd have to talk to jdstrand and ask if it is possible to use a custom template to unlock running other snaps from "unconfined" snap
[12:02] <zyga> noizer: technically it is possible, it's just the matter of having the right template or the right extra bit in an existing template
[12:02] <zyga> noizer: but jdstrand will know how (though he's super-busy so you might not get a quick answer)
[12:05] <dholbach> jdstrand, I'm still seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/15340881/ - do you know what the issue is?
[12:06] <dholbach> that's with r605
[12:17] <dholbach> dpm, it might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1555305
[12:18] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15340912/ is what I tried
[12:18] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15340914/ was the result
[12:19] <dholbach> dpm, so it sounds like it's a known problem with snaps containing symlinks(?)
[12:19] <dholbach> the mksquashfs arguments cited in the error message might be a red herring
[12:26] <kyrofa> Good morning!
[12:28] <dholbach> hey kyrofa
[12:28] <kyrofa> lool, looks like you pinged me yesterday, you around?
[12:28] <kyrofa> Hey dholbach, how are you?
[12:28] <dholbach> good good - how about you? :)
[12:31] <kyrofa> Not bad! Been out the last few days, felt nice
[12:32] <kyrofa> Though now I have ~300 emails to slog through
[12:33] <dholbach> good luck with those :)
[12:35] <dpm> dholbach, weird, as the errors weren't triggered with the first rev1 upload
[12:36] <dpm> thanks for digging it out
[12:36] <dholbach> dpm, let me doublecheck - it could be that click-reviewers-tools didn't have the check at the time :-)
[12:40] <dpm> ok!
[12:42] <dholbach> dpm, looks like the old snap has the same problem
[12:42] <dpm> strange, no errors were triggered on the rev1 upload
[12:46] <noizer> zyga: ok so I don't need to change the apparmor from my snap because there are some other things thats needs to be done?
[12:55] <zyga> noizer: no, you didn't understand what I said; I think it *is* possible technically but you have to figure out the right aa syntax by youreself
[12:56] <zyga> noizer: I don't know how to do this FYI
[12:56] <noizer> zyga ok thx in advance
[13:11] <ogra_> mvo, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily-preinstalled/current/ ... done ... all os and kernel snaps are now published there
[13:12] <ogra_> (now onward to creating the dragonboard kernel.snap ... )
[13:19] <dholbach> dpm, sorry didn't see your reply... as I said earlier: I think back when you uploaded rev1, click-reviewers-tools probably didn't have this check - it was added quite recently
[13:20] <dpm> dholbach, ah, thanks. I had seen it, but somehow I hadn't connected the two. I'll blame it to multitasking rather than admitting I misread it :)
[13:20] <dholbach> no worries :)
[13:21] <dholbach> I just checked - there were 9 days between the uploads - an eternity in snappy's world :-P
[13:23] <mvo> ogra_: nice
[13:23]  * ogra_ tries a test build
[13:24] <ogra_> ubuntu@localhost:~$ snappy list
[13:24] <ogra_> Name               Date       Version      Developer
[13:24] <ogra_> canonical-pc       2016-02-02 3.0          canonical
[13:24] <ogra_> canonical-pc-linux 2016-03-10 IOTfGNaBRCTJ sideload
[13:24] <ogra_> ubuntu-core        2016-03-10 IOTfGOFdgPKF sideload
[13:24] <ogra_> boots :)
[13:24] <mvo> dholbach: that are the 9 days in which we rewrote it in hylang
[13:25] <dholbach> mvo, good to hear you're focusing on the important stuff :-P
[13:26] <ogra_> hylang ? not perl ?
[13:27] <ogra_> hmm, webdm still not proted to interfaces ?
[13:29] <ogra_> funny how all snaps are pretty exactly 20MB smaller than their tarball equivalents ... that seems to be constant, not actually a percentage or anything
[13:43] <techraf> hello, I'm new here
[13:44] <ogra_> hello techraf
[13:44] <kyrofa> Hey techraf, welcome!
[13:44] <techraf> I was trying to create example snaps -> with snapcraft 2.0 I could "snapcraft snap" and had .snap in result
[13:45] <techraf> the same "snapcraft snap" 1.0 does not produce anything
[13:45] <techraf> at least it does not create .snap
[13:45] <kyrofa> techraf, right, the command-line is a little different in 1.x
[13:45] <kyrofa> techraf, try just `snapcraft`
[13:46] <kyrofa> techraf, the actual step in 1.x is called "assemble," but calling snapcraft with no arguments is equivalent
[13:46] <techraf> snapping...
[13:47] <kyrofa> techraf, `snapcraft --help` might be useful
[13:47] <kyrofa> techraf, compare the output between versions, you'll see similarities
[13:48] <techraf> will do, success so far
[13:48] <techraf> you helped me much, thank you
[13:49] <kyrofa> techraf, any time :)
[13:50] <zyga> jdstrand: hey
[13:51] <zyga> jdstrand: I've send you a ping on github for a code review
[13:51] <zyga> jdstrand: it's not urgent but I'd love if we could spend a moment to go over the code there
[13:51] <zyga> jdstrand: and ensure it's all good
[13:54] <kyrofa> didrocks, how are things going for you this week? Examples still coming along?
[14:04] <jdstrand> zyga: sure thing
[14:06] <jdstrand> dholbach: can you give me the snap?
[14:08] <jdstrand> noizer: hey, as mentioned, you are pretty outside of snappy atm and this is the snappy channel. since your questions are now of the form "how to profile with apparmor" I suggest taking a look at 'man apparmor.d' and bringing your questions up on #apparmor on oftc
[14:10] <jdstrand> noizer: also, I saw your paste and you need to use 'plugs' instead of 'slots'
[14:11] <jdstrand> noizer: be sure you are using snapcraft 2.4
[14:11] <noizer> jdstrand I am using now snapcraft 2.4
[14:12] <noizer> jdstrand: I am trying some things but now without any success xD
[14:15] <jdstrand> noizer: I would start with using plugs instead of slots, otherwise you get the default confinement. also, you can see what confinement is bing used in /var/lib/snappy/apparmor/profiles
[14:15] <jdstrand> being
[14:16] <jdstrand> oh, that was in the wiki page I gave you yesterday
[14:17] <jdstrand> dpm: you asked for someone to push the calculator through. did that happen? when I looked it wasn't showing up for review. if it didn't happen, can you request a manual review?
[14:19] <noizer> jdstrand: I saw that today and now I am using plugs. and my apparmor changes
[14:19] <jdstrand> ok good. now you are in the realm of how to profile
[14:19] <jdstrand> that is where #apparmor can help
[14:20] <noizer> Ok is that from snappy developers too?
[14:22] <jdstrand> noizer: that is what I was saying you should take to #apparmor on oftc
[14:22] <jdstrand> that has apparmor developers and community
[14:39] <dholbach> jdstrand, I did a fresh checkout from c-r-t and ran ./bin/click-review on the .snap from https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/4630/rev/2/
[14:40] <dholbach> with the installed version (0.38 from xenial) it does not crash
[14:41] <zyga-phone> jdstrand: thanks
[14:49] <jdstrand> mvo: are paths like this intended: /etc/systemd/system/snaps-cap\x2dtest.sideload-LSXRFfhCCLCY.mount
[14:49] <jdstrand> mvo: the '\x2d' is causing bzr (etckeeper) to crash
[14:50] <jdstrand> and it isn't clear why '-' is being escaped there and nowhere else
[14:50] <jdstrand> unless you are using '-' as a delimiter, in which case I would suggest '_', since that isn't an allowable char in the snap package name
[14:51] <jdstrand> (or some other not allowed char)
[14:52] <jdstrand> dholbach: when you checked out crt and did ./bin/click-review, did you set PYTHONPATH? if not, you need to: PYTHONPATH=./ ./bin/click-review /path/to/snap
[14:53] <dholbach> jdstrand, oh?
[14:53] <dholbach> since when?
[14:53] <jdstrand> always
[14:53] <zyga-phone> jdstrand: sounds like misisng setup.py --develop in hacking docs
[14:53] <jdstrand> otherwise you end up using what is in /usr
[14:53] <dholbach> hohum
[14:53] <zyga-phone> dholbach: this is typical to all python code
[14:54] <dpm> jdstrand, dholbach helped me on this. I hadn't realized last night that I needeed to explicitly say "Request manual review". The apps are now published. We still don't know what the issue with the checksum is, but at least the published apps work as opposed to the old ones not working after the plugs<->slots change
[14:54] <dholbach> jdstrand, confirmed
[14:54] <dholbach> thanks
[14:55] <jdstrand> dpm: you went offline before I could respond. the checksum issue is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1555305
[14:55] <noizer> jdstrand pff there aren't many people on #apparmor
[14:55] <jdstrand> noizer: on OFTC?
[14:56] <jdstrand> dpm: I have disabled the test for now until I can fix that
[14:56] <dpm> ok, thanks
[14:56] <noizer> jdstrand: sorry did some typo
[14:57] <jdstrand> dholbach: ok, with PYTHONPATH, I can confirm it as well
[14:58] <jdstrand> dholbach: I don't recall, did you file a bug for this? if not, don't worry about it
[15:00] <mvo> jdstrand: I think the pats are the result of calling systemd-escape
[15:04] <jdstrand> hrm
[15:04] <jdstrand> I guess I'll file a bug against bzr and workaround it
[15:08] <didrocks> kyrofa: hey! More busy with the developer website content. On the examples, I'm waiting for the poll feedback we launched with dholbach first to see if people like them :)
[15:08] <kyrofa> didrocks, awesome!
[15:10] <kyrofa> dholbach, how is that poll coming? I'm looking forward to seeing that myself
[15:11] <jdstrand> dholbach: oh, heh, nm, I typoed PYTHONPATH. it works fine here, so nothing to do
[15:17] <zyga-phone> jdstrand: I'll dive into more coding, ping me when you have a moment to go through that diff
[15:17] <kyrofa> dholbach, do the review tools catch symlinks that point outside the snap?
[15:20] <dholbach> kyrofa, yes
[15:20] <jdstrand> zyga-phone: yeah, haven't gotten out of email and irc pings yet
[15:20] <kyrofa> dholbach, ALL of them, no allowed whitelist or anything?
[15:21] <dholbach> kyrofa, there's a whitelist
[15:22] <kyrofa> dholbach, oh darn, that throws a wrench into my plans. Can I have a look at that list?
[15:23] <elopio> hey kyrofa, you are back. I'm sorry, I assume we wouldn't have standup today.
[15:23] <kyrofa> elopio, I am indeed! And that's okay :)
[15:23] <elopio> I'll make it on time tomorrow.
[15:23] <dholbach> kyrofa, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-reviewers/click-reviewers-tools/trunk/view/head:/clickreviews/common.py#L631
[15:24] <kyrofa> dholbach, excellent thank you :)
[15:24] <kyrofa> elopio, how has the week been going?
[15:24] <kyrofa> I finally made it through my emails, looks like we cranked out 2.4, nice
[15:27] <elopio> kyrofa: yes, thinks are looking good. I'm still blocked on the closed ports to test the http examples, but most of the tests are running now.
[15:27] <elopio> sergio is doing good progress on the kernel, he said it's almost ready.
[15:28] <kyrofa> elopio, yeah I just looked through it
[15:29] <kyrofa> elopio, no tests to speak of, but the code is looking pretty good
[15:34] <kyrofa> elopio, and looks like you were able to greatly speed up travis tests, eh? Needs a rebase though
[15:43] <elopio> kyrofa: yes, it's running again.
[15:43] <elopio> I'm sad because we are no longer running on xenial, but I hope they will just update the machine in april.
[15:45] <kyrofa> elopio, don't get your hopes up-- I think they still run on 12.04 by default unless you request trusty
[15:45] <kyrofa> elopio, I get the impression that their architecture is very tightly integrated
[15:47] <elopio> they are still calling them beta, the trusty machines...
[15:47] <elopio> but it's GCE. I see no possible way it will be different to manage a xenial in there.
[15:48] <elopio> I'm also sure they can prove me wrong :)
[15:49] <kyrofa> elopio, heh
[16:00] <varaindemian> is ubuntu trying to simlify the building process from source code? Is it trying to make something like "ports"/ABS-arch?
[16:01] <zyga> varaindemian: no
[16:02] <varaindemian> zyga, is ubuntu core a different os or is part of ubuntu?
[16:03] <ogra_> it is a new type and setup of ubuntu (not using apt/dpkg in the runnung system, special filesystem setup, all the shiny new features of teh snappy package manager) but still ubuntu
[16:04] <genii> varaindemian: http://www.ubuntu.com/internet-of-things
[16:08] <varaindemian> ogra_, so ubuntu 16.04 lts won't have the snappy sotre
[16:08] <varaindemian> store
[16:08] <varaindemian> ogra_, right?
[16:08] <ogra_> the snappy packagemanager will be shipped in ubuntu 16.04 installs
[16:08] <ogra_> so you can indeed use snap packages from the store
[16:09] <varaindemian> ogra_, oh, so I cna build packages for my own system right?
[16:09] <ogra_> (on these systems thats additionally to dpkg packages)
[16:09] <ogra_> yeah
[16:09] <ogra_> you can use snapcraft to package up your github projects as snaps
[16:09] <ogra_> (or whatever other projects yoou have)
[16:09] <varaindemian> ogra_, nice and the building process from source code will be simplified?
[16:09] <ogra_> yeah, snapcraft makes that pretty automated
[16:10] <varaindemian> so cool
[16:10] <ogra_> you create a yaml file that describes the build and just run the snapcraft tool in your workdir ... out comes a snap :)
[16:12] <varaindemian> ogra_, Really really interesting. How would that differ compared to an os that uses "ports like" system?
[16:12] <ogra_> dunno, i never used a "ports like" system
[16:13] <ogra_> what you deal with are binary packages though ... the store also doesnt care about source (you can even snap up complete binary blobs if you want)
[16:13] <ogra_> snapcraft just makes it easy to create them but source isnat mandatory
[16:13] <ogra_> *isnt
[16:16] <ssweeny> jdstrand, I'm trying to build location-service in snappy for 16.04 and it seems to want to link against libapparmor.a rather than the shared library. As best I can tell when I stage apparmor-dev in snapcraft something isn't running that sets up the unversioned .so symlink in /lib/<triplet>. Have you seen this sort of thing before?
[16:17] <ssweeny> is it that staged packages are just unpacked and no scripts or triggers are run?
[16:18] <kyrofa> ssweeny, you got it
[16:18] <kyrofa> ssweeny, they're only unpacked
[16:18] <kyrofa> ssweeny, no postinst, etc
[16:18] <ssweeny> hm
[16:19] <ssweeny> thanks kyrofa. is there some easy way to manipulate the staged tree as part of the build? i.e. remove a file or add a symlink
[16:19] <ssweeny> this is the only library that has an issue for me while building
[16:19] <kyrofa> ssweeny, I typically install the -dev packages as build-packages and only include the runtime packages as stage-packages
[16:20] <kyrofa> ssweeny, have you tried that?
[16:20] <ssweeny> kyrofa, I did try that but the build step was looking for stuff in stage
[16:20] <ssweeny> so I assumed I was wrong
[16:21] <jdstrand> ssweeny: I haven't no. I imagine I am going to run into this on my next snappy-debug upload though, so I'm interested in what comes of this
[16:21] <ssweeny> kyrofa, so the theory of operation so to speak is the build-deps go in build-packages and runtime deps go in stage-packages.
[16:22] <ssweeny> i can try it again but I'm certain it was looking for headers in stage/include/foo
[16:22] <kyrofa> ssweeny, indeed. Not to say that having -dev in stage would hurt anything, but it bloats your snap unless you exclude them
[16:22] <ssweeny> right
[16:23] <ssweeny> ok I'll try it again. Maybe I was hitting a bug :)
[16:23] <ssweeny> thanks kyrofa
[16:23] <ssweeny> jdstrand, i'll let you know what I find
[16:23] <kyrofa> ssweeny, yeah let me know as well
[16:30] <ysionneau> do I understand correctly that it's not yet possible for an app to bind a unix socket?
[16:32] <ysionneau> the unix-listener policygroup is marked as # TODO
[16:32] <ysionneau> and I get a "denied" for this: Mar 10 16:24:48 localhost kernel: [182550.868636] audit: type=1400 audit(1457627088.221:21): apparmor="DENIED" operation="bind" profile="wifid.sideload_foreground_LSbLDVfnJSlm" pid=2988 comm="ld-linux-armhf." family="unix" sock_type="stream" protocol=0 requested_mask="bind" denied_mask="bind" addr="@776966696400000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
[16:33] <jdstrand> ysionneau: on 16.04 all of this is in flux. unix-listener is actually going away and there will be a proper interface for this
[16:33] <ogra_> inter-app sockes within the same snap should be possible though ...
[16:33] <ysionneau> jdstrand: ok thx
[16:33] <jdstrand> ogra_: yes, but perms need to still be allowed
[16:34] <jdstrand> it is being worked through
[16:34] <ogra_> oh, even if the socket sits in SNAP_DATA ?
[16:34] <jdstrand> ysionneau: today, use a named socket
[16:34] <jdstrand> if that is possible
[16:34] <jdstrand> since only file rules are in effect with those
[16:35] <jdstrand> ysionneau: let me check the default policy real quick
[16:36] <jdstrand> ogra_: this is an abstract socket
[16:36] <ogra_> oh, right
[16:38] <jdstrand> neither 15.04 nor 16.04 allow binding to an abstract unix socket. 16.04 will have an interface for that
[16:38] <jdstrand> but like I said, it should work if you use a named socket
[16:38] <jdstrand> (iirc)
[16:40] <jdstrand> zyga: ok, I'm going to go pretty deep on this review and really study how things are being put together (except perhaps the xmanager bits)
[16:42] <ysionneau> jdstrand: ok thanks!
[16:42] <ysionneau> will try with a named unix socket
[17:19] <zyga> jdstrand: thank you
[17:19] <zyga> jdstrand: feel free to pull me in and ask any questions
[17:20] <zyga> jdstrand: I have more aa-specifc patches piled, about to be pushed out soon
[17:27] <zyga> jdstrand: ( https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/635 ) for later
[17:32] <jdstrand> ack
[17:33] <zyga> jdstrand: thanks
[17:36] <zyga> jdstrand: also FYI, for some context how I plan to plug it together, look at this list of TODOs (before it gets stale) https://github.com/zyga/snappy/blob/master/overlord/ifacestate/ifacemgr.go#L93
[17:36] <jdstrand> ok
[17:44] <kyrofa> elopio, I just shared a google doc with you regarding the dirty build redesign
[17:45] <kyrofa> elopio, essentially a distilled problems/solutions doc
[17:45] <kyrofa> elopio, mind taking a look?
[17:46] <rajen> Hi folks..I am seeing apparmour issues using new ubuntu-core image
[17:46] <rajen> Any guidance would be of great help
[17:46] <rajen> We are running our app unconfined as of now
[17:47] <rajen> dmesg shows a lot of audit messages
[17:48] <rajen> http://pastebin.com/nQvfDhX5
[17:49] <zyga> elopio: it's not urgent (next week) but I'd like to write a few integration tests
[17:49] <zyga> elopio: and I could use a quick interactive session with you
[17:50] <zyga> elopio: my goal is to write a test that checks that udev/apparmor support fuctions really work; this basically means setting up some files, calling a function from snappy and then checking that some stuff happened (either with more snappy functions or just with brute-force helper shell command/file poke)
[17:50] <zyga> elopio: when would be the best time to try this?
[17:52] <kyrofa> rajen, install snappy-debug (snappy install snappy-debug) and run sudo snappy-debug.security scanlog
[17:53] <kyrofa> rajen, wait... those messages are fine, they're just loading profiles and stuff
[17:53] <rajen> Here is the latest from scanlog http://pastebin.com/tAgMJX5D
[17:55] <jdstrand> rajen: is this on 16.04?
[17:55] <rajen> Yes 16.04 daily build
[17:55] <jdstrand> yeah, it needs to be updated
[17:55] <jdstrand> let me do that real quick
[17:56] <rajen> I picked the image an hour back from  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily-preinstalled/current/
[18:01] <jdstrand> rajen: ok, update to snappy-debug 0.13
[18:02] <jdstrand> it needed the to be updates for interfaces work
[18:02] <jdstrand> s/the //
[18:02] <rajen> jdstrand: Yeah Now I see better scalogs
[18:03] <rajen> I see a lot of DENIED logs
[18:04] <rajen> jstrand: Here is  a sample from the long logs http://pastebin.com/yRJi4GMD
[18:08] <rajen> jdstrand: Do I have to update my snapcraft.yaml for it to work on new image? I am using slots and my snap app is working from on an ubuntu-core image 3 days back.
[18:08] <jdstrand> rajen: likely-- can you paste it?
[18:09] <ssweeny> kyrofa, using build-packages instead of stage-packages I'm getting cmake errors in the config stage. -lpthread failing and whatnot. Looking at the error log I'm seeing stuff like:
[18:09] <ssweeny>  /usr/bin/cc   -I/home/ubuntu/location-service/trunk/snappy/stage/include -I/home/ubuntu/location-service/trunk/snappy/stage/usr/include -I/home/ubuntu/location-service/trunk/snappy/stage/include/x86_64-linux-gnu -I/home/ubuntu/location-service/trunk/snappy/stage/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu   -Wall -pedantic -Wextra -fPIC -DCHECK_FUNCTION_EXISTS=pthread_create   -o CMakeFiles/cmTryCompileExec495151839.dir/CheckFunctionExists.c.o   -c
[18:09] <ssweeny> /usr/share/cmake-3.2/Modules/CheckFunctionExists.c
[18:09] <rajen> jdstrand: http://pastebin.com/reRMKXHC
[18:10] <ssweeny> kyrofa, so it's definitely looking for -dev stuff in stage
[18:10] <jdstrand> rajen: yes. replace 'slots' with 'plugs'
[18:10] <kyrofa> ssweeny, sure it looks there, but it also looks in the standard places
[18:11] <jdstrand> rajen: in both places. that was very similar to what I had to do for snappy-debug incidentally. (the slots<->plugs rename is in the image now)
[18:12] <rajen> jdstrand: Yay! Works now.
[18:12] <rajen> Thanks for the help.
[18:12] <jdstrand> nice :)
[18:12] <elopio> zyga: I'm here just for that, so you chose the date and time. I usually start working at 14UTC, but I can adjust my working times easily too.
[18:13] <elopio> zyga: we have a really simple test for hardware assign that we can use as a base: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/integration-tests/tests/hwAssign_test.go
[18:14] <elopio> kyrofa: looking
[18:17] <ssweeny> kyrofa, at least in the logs it's not looking outside of stage
[18:18] <kyrofa> ssweeny, the -I arguments ADD to the system include dirs-- it doesn't replace the
[18:18] <kyrofa> m
[18:24] <zyga> elopio: cool, let's aim for Tuesday
[18:24] <zyga> elopio: I'll sync with you before that happens
[18:25] <elopio> perfect. Thanks zyga.
[18:29] <ssweeny> kyrofa, well I can't think of why it would fail then. I have libc6-dev installed on that system
[18:30] <kyrofa> ssweeny, any chance you could share both your project and the build log?
[18:30] <kyrofa> ssweeny, happy to look into it :)
[18:31] <ssweeny> kyrofa, sure. let me push my branch up
[18:53] <ssweeny> kyrofa, my branch is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ssweeny/location-service/snapcraft-2.3 and it looks like you were right about includes. I was reading too much into CMakeErrors.log. However that just means I have no idea why my build is failing :)
[18:57] <kyrofa> ssweeny, checking it out now
[18:57] <ssweeny> kyrofa, many thanks
[19:01] <kyrofa> jdstrand, I assume I just hit bug #1555305
[19:02] <kyrofa> jdstrand, I requested a manual review (owncloud.canonical). Mind taking a look?
[19:05] <kyrofa> ssweeny, what is your intention with this glue part?
[19:06] <ssweeny> kyrofa, I think that's leftover from an earlier version when we didn't know how to expose the binaries properly :)
[19:07] <kyrofa> ssweeny, ahh, okay. Well first off, this is the first YAML I've seen in a subdirectory. I won't be surprised if that's the cause of your issues
[19:10] <ssweeny> kyrofa, moving the yaml to the top-level dir didn't change anything
[19:20] <kyrofa> ssweeny, sorry, got a few thing going at once, still investigating
[19:21] <ssweeny> kyrofa, no worries. it might be a legitimate build failure actually. Some "recipe failed" lines were obscured by the jumbled "-j8" output
[19:22] <kyrofa> ssweeny, huh. I assume you're tried outside of snapcraft though?
[19:22] <ssweeny> kyrofa, yeah it builds fine in a normal cmake environment
[19:23] <ssweeny> kyrofa, even weirder is I was able to get it to build when the build-packages were stage-packages
[19:24] <elopio> kyrofa: Sergio will be super happy.
[19:27] <kyrofa> elopio, think so? Most of that sound okay?
[19:27] <kyrofa> elopio, I tried to reply to your comments
[19:27] <elopio> kyrofa: everyting sounds great.
[19:29] <kyrofa> elopio, thanks for taking a look! :)
[19:30] <kyrofa> ssweeny, does this look like your build log? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15343243/
[19:32] <ssweeny> kyrofa, yep that's it
[19:32] <kyrofa> ssweeny, because dbus/dbus.h is not in the standard include paths
[19:32] <kyrofa> ssweeny, it's core/dbus/dbus.h
[19:32] <jdstrand> pindonga: I've got one more for you: r606
[19:33] <jdstrand> pindonga: adjustment for recent snap.yaml changes
[19:33] <pindonga> good thing I had such a busy today that I didn't even get to your previous request :/
[19:33] <jdstrand> yay?
[19:33] <pindonga> jdstrand, and unfortunately, looking at things we won't be able to update until monday
[19:33] <pindonga> but I'll make sure it's top prio for early next week
[19:33] <kyrofa> ssweeny, also, may I express my sympathies for needing to deal with dbus-cpp and the trust store
[19:34] <ssweeny> kyrofa, haha, thanks
[19:34] <jdstrand> pindonga: thanks! I wish I could say that there weren't go to be more requests of the next couple weeks, but things continue to change fast
[19:34] <jdstrand> going*
[19:35] <kyrofa> ssweeny, okay, so this is interesting
[19:35] <jdstrand> kyrofa: approved
[19:35] <kyrofa> jdstrand, many thanks!
[19:35] <jdstrand> np
[19:35] <ssweeny> kyrofa, i like interesting
[19:36] <kyrofa> ssweeny, I may have been right about how -I added to the system includes rather than replacing them, but you were still right about it using the stage directory. /usr/include/dbus-1.0/ contains dbus/dbus.h, and it's added to the include path, but _within stage_
[19:36] <tvoss> o/
[19:36] <kyrofa> ssweeny, my question is: Why?
[19:37] <pindonga> jdstrand, nw
[19:37] <kyrofa> ssweeny, looking at the cmake output, it says it found dbus-cpp
[19:37] <pindonga> jdstrand, I wish we had taken the time back then to automate the pulling of new crt revnos
[19:38] <pindonga> instead of tying it to the normal deployment cycle
[19:38] <kyrofa> ssweeny, but then the paths that get tacked on are in stage rather than the system paths
[19:38] <pindonga> but then... :)
[19:38] <kyrofa> ssweeny, ah, it uses pkg-config it seems?
[19:38] <kyrofa> ssweeny, this may indeed be a bug
[19:39] <ssweeny> woo hoo I found a bug!
[19:39] <ssweeny> second one i found today :)
[19:39] <kyrofa> ssweeny, may, I say!
[19:39] <ssweeny> kyrofa, fair enough
[19:39] <kyrofa> :P
[19:39] <jdstrand> pindonga: yeah, well, hopefully it'll calm down a bit. I mean, click checks aren't updated very often
[19:39] <kyrofa> ssweeny, just a sec, this touches a bit of snapcraft code I'm not super familiar with
[19:40] <jdstrand> so after GA, I expect things to calm down a lot
[19:40]  * kyrofa gets familiar
[19:51] <zyga-phone> jdstrand: thanks for reviewing the branch; do you want me to merge it and follow-up with isolated changes or do you want me to pile them in the same pull request?
[19:58] <nadu> I'm looking for information about security updates and auto updates. Can anyone help?
[19:58] <zyga-phone> nadu: what do you want to know
[20:01] <kyrofa> ssweeny, yup, bug. Snapcraft sets PKG_CONFIG_SYSROOT_DIR to the stage dir
[20:01] <nadu> Is there something similar to unattended-upgrades and how are security upgrade applied?
[20:01] <zyga-phone> nadu: snappy updates all snaps automatically
[20:01] <zyga-phone> nadu: it's on by default
[20:01] <ssweeny> kyrofa, aha!
[20:01] <zyga-phone> nadu: security updates are rolled out as new versions of the os/kernel snaps
[20:02] <zyga-phone> nadu: also, snappy reboots automatically to upgrade kernel/os
[20:02] <zyga-phone> nadu: so you plug it in and it's on and secure by default
[20:02] <nadu> sounds cool
[20:02] <nadu> can I chroot into a docker container?
[20:02] <zyga-phone> nadu: for other snaps the same thing happens but there's no reboot required, vendors are responsible for updating their software though
[20:03] <kyrofa> ssweeny, so you know that advice I gave you about having -dev packages as build?
[20:03] <zyga-phone> nadu: yes, you can use docker, lxd or you can use the classic dimension which gives you classic ubuntu directly on any snappy hsot
[20:03] <kyrofa> ssweeny, ignore it in this case I guess :P
[20:03] <zyga-phone> host*
[20:03] <ssweeny> kyrofa, haha
[20:03] <kyrofa> ssweeny, I'm not sure how to get it to work in both cases, though
[20:03] <kyrofa> ssweeny, I'll have to give it some thought. Log a bug for us?
[20:03] <ssweeny> kyrofa, sure
[20:04] <kyrofa> ssweeny, thank you!
[20:04] <ssweeny> kyrofa, no thank YOU
[20:04] <ssweeny> i thought i was losing my mind
[20:04] <nadu> zyga-phone: I'd like to do some configuration changes to a docker container without typing docker exec containername everytime
[20:05] <zyga-phone> nadu: I don't know how that's related to snappy
[20:06] <ssweeny> kyrofa, of course now I have the problem of libapparmor not being set up correctly when unpacked
[20:06] <ssweeny> so i'm back where i started :)
[20:07] <nadu> zyga-phone: you're right :)
[20:08] <kyrofa> ssweeny, yeah that's annoying. You can probaby hack Snapcraft a little to work with the build packages if you want
[20:09] <kyrofa> ssweeny, basically, just comment out line 366 in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/snapcraft/yaml.py
[20:09] <kyrofa> ssweeny, see if that works better
[20:11] <nadu> how can I print more information about a snappy packages? for example getting the maintainer?
[20:11] <zyga-phone> nadu: each snap has a vendor field
[20:11] <zyga-phone> nadu: snaps don't have maintainers
[20:12] <zyga-phone> nadu: snaps are binary packages, not source packages
[20:12] <zyga-phone> nadu: how you build your snaps is not important to snappy itself
[20:12] <ssweeny> kyrofa, yep that fixes it
[20:12] <zyga-phone> nadu: you can check the snap meta-data in snapcraft (2.x) documentation
[20:13] <zyga-phone> nadu: I'm sorry, I don't have a link handy
[20:13] <kyrofa> ssweeny, but of course, breaks it if you have .pc files in stage-packages
[20:13] <ssweeny> of course
[20:21] <zyga> jdstrand: thanks, I love how all of this is starting to take shape
[20:23] <zyga> jdstrand: I replied to your Unload() question; I think it's fine to still merge this; we'll do a full pass over the security side of interfaces as things get glued
[20:24] <ssweeny> kyrofa, looks like someone already found this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1549570
[20:28] <jdstrand> zyga: yeah, it is feeling like it is coming together
[20:28] <jdstrand> zyga: btw, when do you think that old-security/caps will go away? I'm trying to decide if I should upload an ubuntu-core-security with my new x and unity7 policy
[20:29] <jdstrand> zyga: this isn't pressure btw, it is just info for me to decide my next steps
[20:30] <zyga> jdstrand: old-security will *probably* remain for a while but will get migrated over to interfaces as a native kind
[20:30] <zyga> jdstrand: as to where we want to remove it entirely, I don't know -- I suspect it will live on for 16.04
[20:30] <nadu> zyga-phone: got it
[20:30] <zyga> jdstrand: but we'll trigger manual review and just stop allowing it
[20:30] <zyga> jdstrand: sure, no worries, I think we have a good cooperation flow :)
[20:30] <nadu> can I install vim to ubuntu-core?
[20:30] <jdstrand> well, we agreed old-security will exist for a while for security-override and security-policy, but I thought old-security/caps and old-security-security-template were going away as soon as these native interfaces were in place
[20:31] <zyga> jdstrand: mmmm
[20:31] <zyga> jdstrand: perhaps, if only because some of those would be hard to support
[20:31] <zyga> jdstrand: e.g. we'd have to parse and rewrite them partially
[20:31] <jdstrand> zyga: any way, the removal was actually a shorthand way of asking the question. I'm trying to decide if I should update ubuntu-core-security or if ubuntu-core-security is going away very soon cause of the interfaces work
[20:32] <zyga> jdstrand: that's a curious question
[20:32] <zyga> jdstrand: do you need u-c-s for click?
[20:32] <jdstrand> no
[20:32] <zyga> jdstrand: or is the phone using something separate?
[20:32] <jdstrand> phone uses other stuff
[20:32] <jdstrand> the last thing we want is duplicated policy between ucs and snappy
[20:33] <zyga> jdstrand: then I think it's slowly going to become unused
[20:33] <jdstrand> so I wanted to know when the snappy stuff was going live
[20:33] <zyga> jdstrand: ASAP
[20:33] <zyga> jdstrand: as soon as we glue it together
[20:33] <zyga> jdstrand: 16.04 ships with this
[20:33] <jdstrand> yes
[20:33] <jdstrand> hehe
[20:33] <jdstrand> is it hours, days or weeks?
[20:33] <jdstrand> if days, how many?
[20:33] <zyga> days
[20:33] <zyga> 2-3
[20:33] <jdstrand> ok, then I'll hold off
[20:33] <zyga> bits are missing
[20:34] <zyga> in other parts of snappy
[20:34] <zyga> in particular install/remove need to move over to the state engine first
[20:34] <zyga> at least a little bit so that interfaces can "see" the snaps that are in the current state
[20:34] <jdstrand> zyga: but so we are clear-- you are going to move all the policy that is in ubuntu-core-security to native interfaces, correct
[20:34] <jdstrand> ?
[20:34] <jdstrand> (in the trunk branch that I pointed you to)
[20:35] <zyga> jdstrand: yes
[20:35] <jdstrand> ok
[20:35] <zyga> jdstrand: it was only nacked by gustavo last time to have me focus on bringing last bits of glue needed
[20:35] <zyga> jdstrand: as soon as 1st interface works end-to-end I'll pull all the others over
[20:35] <zyga> jdstrand: (which is simple then)
[20:36] <jdstrand> zyga: and behind the scenes, old-security/caps will actually map to the native interfaces (and old-security/security-template is a noop/goes away)? (ie, so ucs can go away and we don't have to keep it and snappy in sync?
[20:36] <zyga> jdstrand: I think that old-securtiy will become a native interface called "old-security" that emits particular security snippets
[20:36] <zyga> jdstrand: perhaps with a bit of parsing here and there
[20:37] <zyga> jdstrand: old-security as in the current codebase in snappy/ will go away sooner
[20:37] <zyga> jdstrand: we'll keep the feature, switch implementations
[20:37] <jdstrand> we can discuss that later-- so long as old-security/caps isn't using the old code that grabs policy from ucs, that is good enough for me for now
[20:37] <zyga> jdstrand: so that any and all security related aspects will go through the interfaces/**.go
[20:37] <zyga> jdstrand: yep
[20:37] <jdstrand> right, sounds good
[20:37] <zyga> jdstrand: that's guaranteed
[20:37] <jdstrand> ok, thanks!
[20:38]  * zyga wishes to see the day where big git rm -rf will happen
[20:38] <zyga> :)
[20:39] <zyga> jdstrand: btw, while we're on the topic: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/636/files
[20:39] <zyga> jdstrand: this one is shorter, this is the code that will reload udev rules after any rules get touched
[21:06] <zyga> pitti: hey, could you please have a look at https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/636#discussion-diff-55722473R26
[21:06] <zyga> pitti: and weigh in with your udev experience?
[21:37] <zyga> jdstrand: thanks!
[21:38] <jdstrand> np
[21:49] <kgunn> hey all what's the _current_ way to remove an installed snap? sudo snap remove snap-name...giving me not found when it's clearly installed
[22:48] <ogra_> kgunn, "snappy remove ... "
[22:49] <kgunn> ta
[22:49] <kgunn> ogra_: confusing with snap and snappy :)
[22:49] <ogra_> well, naming isnt our strength in snappy (see the security ...)
[22:49] <ogra_> :)
[22:50] <ogra_> capaskillfaces with plugslots :P
[23:05] <zyga> ogra_: you confused plugslots with slotplugs
[23:05] <zyga> ogra_: snappy and snapd as commands are going away (from PATH)
[23:05] <zyga> ogra_: snap is the only thing that people will tab-complete
[23:07] <ogra_> zyga, in 4 months :P
[23:07] <zyga> ogra_: no, more like in the next few days
[23:07] <zyga> ogra_: all of install/remove/config/etc ops are available in the rest api
[23:08] <zyga> ogra_: and exposed via snap
[23:08]  * ogra_ wishes back blueprints ... where things were well defined, discussed early and written down in a public place :P
[23:09] <zyga> ogra_: well, we still discuss and refine but it's not like we have a grand plan for each detail for the next 6 months anymore
[23:09] <zyga> ogra_: too hard to do that
[23:09] <zyga> ogra_: too inflexible
[23:09] <ogra_> you discuss at some obscure sprints ...
[23:09] <ogra_> and then someone writes down something in some well hidden google doc
[23:09] <zyga> ogra_: I discuss most of my stuff on github
[23:10] <zyga> ogra_: those are drafts, they trigger coding and feedback cycle
[23:10] <zyga> ogra_: wanna look at some of the security work I'm doing with jdstrand? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/617
[23:10] <ogra_> well, i see very rarely any discussions of implementation in here
[23:11] <ogra_> but i kind of started to give up caring since i'm in this team
[23:11] <zyga> ogra_: that's true
[23:11] <ogra_> everything got way to opaque
[23:12] <zyga> ogra_: tradeoffs for hard deadlines, I don't think we could have made snappy the old way we made ubuntu before, not this time
[23:12] <zyga> ogra_: doesn't mean we'll work this way all the time either
[23:12]  * zyga -> shower
[23:12]  * ogra_ TV
[23:12] <ogra_> :)
[23:54]  * zyga -> EOD


[14:35] <brainwash> bluesabre: this looks broken https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+recipe/xfwm4-daily
[16:23] <ochosi> brainwash: nice to see you around again
[18:43] <brainwash> hi ochosi
[18:43] <brainwash> right
[18:44] <brainwash> I decided to check out some things here and there
[23:01] <brainwash> bluesabre: new info in bug 1754872


[15:36] <mhall119> stgraber: is edubuntu.org still the project's website?
[15:36] <ogra_> why wouldnt it
[15:37] <mhall119> because it's not loading
[15:38] <mhall119> and we're linking to it from the new flavours download page on ubuntu.com
[15:39] <ogra_> well, something to take up with the webopps team i guess
[15:39] <ogra_> it is a canonical server
[15:39] <mhall119> ack, will do, thanks
[15:39] <ogra_> humboldt.canonical.com apparently
[17:08] <mhall119> site's back up
[17:09] <ogra_> mhall119, what was it ?
[17:12] <mhall119> collatoral damage from other work, according to jacekn
[17:12] <ogra_> ah


[10:53] <chuothungbang96> hello every body? I need help T_T
[10:54] <chuothungbang96> hello?
[10:54] <chuothungbang96> T_T
[10:55] <chuothungbang96> T_T
[14:24] <sakrecoer> in xfce4-settings-editor, under xfwm i can set or unset the easy-click... but i would like to bind that to a key, so i can switch it off in blender, but switch it back whenver i need it.
[14:25] <sakrecoer> anyone knows the cli-command to set easy-click in xfwm4?
[14:28] <sakrecoer> hi, in xfce4-settings-editor, under xfwm i can edit, set or unset the easy-click key... i'm looking for a way to switch it off in blender, but switch it back whenver i need it, by binding it to a key, can anyone please tell me what the cli-command is to set easy-click?
[14:29] <sakrecoer> haha
[14:29] <sakrecoer> oops,,, thought i was in #xfce :p
[14:46] <chuothungbang96> ahuhu :(
[15:15] <chuothungbang96> LoL. any one can help me? T_T
[15:15] <chuothungbang96> i creat desktop entry. and this file not working T_T
[15:16] <chuothungbang96> error "Failed to execute child process"
[15:16] <chuothungbang96> and permisson denied T_T
[16:31] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: have you tried changing permissions?
[16:31] <chuothungbang96> T_T not.
[16:32] <chuothungbang96> thanks for anwser. but....
[16:32] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: right click on the desktop entry, and open properties, you should find a tab entitled "permissions"
[16:33] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: what exactly do you mean by "desktop entry" anyway?
[16:33] <chuothungbang96> T_T yeb
[16:33] <chuothungbang96> i use step - by - step in internet. but not working
[16:33] <chuothungbang96> and i use desktop lancher in right-click :v
[16:34] <chuothungbang96> and replace it. T_T
[16:34] <chuothungbang96> and... working :v =))) it work :3
[16:34] <sakrecoer> :)
[16:34] <chuothungbang96> ...... :2
[16:34] <chuothungbang96> :3
[16:35] <chuothungbang96> my english not good :3
[16:36] <sakrecoer> no worries chuothungbang96 if its working now anyway :)
[16:37] <chuothungbang96> thanks :3 thanks for answer :3
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> but I see this in internet:
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> [Desktop Entry]
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Name=Eclipse
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Type=Application
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Exec=/opt/eclipse/eclipse
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Terminal=false
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Icon=/opt/eclipse/icon.xpm
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Comment=Integrated Development Environment
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> NoDisplay=false
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Categories=Development;IDE;
[16:38] <chuothungbang96> Name[en]=Eclipse
[16:39] <sakrecoer> easy chuothungbang96 :) if you want to paste text use something like this:http://paste.openstack.org/
[16:40] <chuothungbang96> oh thanks :3
[16:42] <chuothungbang96> http://paste.openstack.org/show/582854/
[16:42] <chuothungbang96> um... why not working?
[16:42] <chuothungbang96> T_T you can tell my why? T_T
[16:43] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: does eclipse start when you launch /home/jin/eclipse/cpp-neon/eclipse/eclipse ?
[16:44] <chuothungbang96> yeb
[16:44] <chuothungbang96> everything ok. but i use whisher not working T_T
[16:44] <sakrecoer> have you tired to set something in "Path=" ? like... /home/jin/myeclipsestuff
[16:45] <sakrecoer> (given /home/jin/myeclpisestuff actualy exists
[16:45] <sakrecoer> )
[16:45] <chuothungbang96> no T_T
[16:45] <chuothungbang96> i don't
[16:45] <sakrecoer> so try it then...
[16:46] <chuothungbang96> T_T
[16:46] <chuothungbang96> no? i don't try replace everything in ....... internet
[16:47] <chuothungbang96> i just change name. from eclipse => eclipse C/C++
[16:47] <chuothungbang96> only change name
[16:49] <sakrecoer> was it _Exactly_ like that whe you found it on internet?
[16:49] <chuothungbang96> yeb :3
[16:49] <chuothungbang96> i found it in internet :3
[16:49] <chuothungbang96> and people say it working...
[16:49] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: so, "jin" is not your username in your computer?
[16:50] <chuothungbang96> no. jin is my username :D
[16:50] <chuothungbang96> i replace it.
[16:50] <chuothungbang96> this is my direc
[16:51] <sakrecoer> and what happens if you paste this in a terminal:
[16:51] <sakrecoer> /home/jin/eclipse/cpp-neon/eclipse/eclipse
[16:51] <sakrecoer> and press enter?
[16:51] <sakrecoer> does the program start?
[16:51] <chuothungbang96> let my try :v
[16:52] <chuothungbang96> program start :3
[16:53] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: try to remove the line "path=" all together
[16:54] <chuothungbang96> run. program start
[16:54] <sakrecoer> chuothungbang96: so it works now?
[16:55] <chuothungbang96> yeb :3
[16:55] <chuothungbang96> i add it in /opt/share/application/
[16:55] <chuothungbang96> and use whisher. click icon
[16:55] <chuothungbang96> and work. :3 working
[22:17] <studio-user973> how can I install linux on windows mobile os


[17:55] <Durak> Hi guys, I'm back to Xubuntu. All well and good, except for a little issue with my MS Bluetooth 3600 mouse.
[17:56] <Durak> For some reason I can trust it and pair it, but it won't stay for long. I start getting application errors related to blueman and shortly after the mouse disconnects.
[17:56] <Durak> I tried pairing by using bluetoothctl and pairing fails.
[18:03] <Durak> Has anyone else dealt with similar issues?


[15:52] <Whoopie> jdong: Hi, could you have a look at bug #482255? I made a debdiff to get tuxonice-userui working in karmic.
[16:12] <Quintasan> \o
[16:14] <xnox> is /usr/share/pixmaps used nowadays at all?
[16:14] <xnox> (i know packages put files there but do any of those actually shown to the user)
[16:29] <joaopinto> xnox, yes, that's the regular place for the icons used on the .desktop files
[16:30] <xnox> joaopinto: what about /usr/share/icons/hicolor/size/apps/ ?
[16:30] <joaopinto> afaik there is some order which gnome/menu/whatever uses to determine the icon filename
[16:31] <xnox> Freedesktop.org icon spec and all that jazz?
[17:08] <bjsnider> why was the shared library package libmutter-private0 renamed to libmutter0 in ubuntu?
[17:12] <ScottK> What makes you think that happened?
[17:13] <ScottK> A quick reading of debian/changelog make it clear that's not the case.
[17:15] <bjsnider> i am looking at the control file for the latest mutter upstream. the shared library is called libmutter-private0
[17:16] <bjsnider> so either ubuntu changed it or debian changed it
[17:16] <bjsnider> because they don't match
[17:17] <ScottK> OK, I thought you meant changed from Debian.
[17:17] <bjsnider> yes, changed from debian
[17:18] <ScottK> The Ubuntu packages don't derive from Debian.
[17:18] <bjsnider> there's nothing in the debian changelog about a name change
[17:18] <bjsnider> the ubuntu mutter packages do not derive from debian?
[17:18] <ScottK> Every Ubuntu debian/changelog entry is 0ubuntuX
[17:19] <bjsnider> yes but i'm sure originally it did
[17:19] <ScottK> On what basis?
[17:19] <bjsnider> well, why create a brand new package when you can just pull whatever debian has?
[17:20] <bjsnider> besides, they're so close. they're using similar patches, and scripts
[17:22] <ScottK> I'd guess they both derive from metacity packaging.
[17:22] <ScottK> It looks like didrocks mostly dealt with it in Ubuntu, so he'd be the one to ask.
[17:24] <bjsnider> well, i don't understand why two devs are doing the exact same thing here.
[17:24]  * ScottK neither.  That's why I suggested ask didrocks.
[17:24] <bjsnider> is it common for debian and ubuntu to spend time packaging the same thing independently?
[17:24] <ScottK> It's more common than it should be.
[17:24] <bjsnider> i see
[17:25] <bjsnider> is that because of disagreements over how things should be packaged?
[17:25] <ScottK> Sometimes.
[17:25] <ScottK> Sometimes it's just because the distros work differently.
[17:25] <bjsnider> yes but i thought the policy was that ubuntu didn't want to get too far away from debian
[17:26] <bjsnider> but i guess it doesn't work that way in practice
[17:26] <ScottK> For example, the Debian KDE team is currently working on getting KDE 4.3.4 into Testing, while in Kubuntu we are packaging KDE 4.4 betas.
[17:26] <ScottK> bjsnider: You can't generalize.
[17:26] <ScottK> I've done two QA uploads in Debian this week to push Ubuntu changes on orphaned packages back into Debian and I'm working on another one still.
[17:27] <ScottK> Going back to the KDE case, before we started on 4.4 stuff, we merged Debian's changes that we didn't have and gave them an analysis of our changes to let them know what we had that would be useful.
[17:28] <ScottK> For KDE, we always merge at least once a cycle and so while the packages always have differences, we stay relatively close to each other..
[17:28] <bjsnider> but the fellow that has been packaging mutter in debian, which is newer than the one in either karmic or lucid (i think) is an ubuntu guy as well
[17:28] <bjsnider> i think he's a motu
[17:29] <bjsnider> he has a launchpad page anyway
[17:29] <ScottK> Every Debian uploader has a Launchpad page.
[17:29] <bjsnider> but different people have been packaging mutter in ubuntu
[17:29] <ScottK> When packages get sync'ed uploaded by them,  a stub account gets vreated.
[17:30] <ScottK> AFAIK, kov is not active in Ubuntu.
[17:30] <bjsnider> ok
[17:30] <ScottK> For mutter specifically, you'd have to ask didrocks.
[17:31] <ScottK> I know I put a lot of effort into pushing Ubuntu changes back into Debian and many other Ubuntu devs do too.
[17:31] <bjsnider> what i wonder is if anyone knows that the shared library packages have different names
[17:31] <ScottK> That doesn't mean it couldn't be better.
[17:31] <ScottK> My guess is that no one ever looked and that talking to didrocks about it is the right solution.
[18:25] <didrocks> bjsnider: ScottK: I will merge the two packages starting mid january. For the record, I created mutter package first into Ubuntu (Debian hadn't one at this one). I opened an ITP into Debian to get it there whence I was happy with it into Debian. In the meanwhile, kov packaged it without looking at ITP, so, doubling the effort :/
[18:25] <ScottK> didrocks: Thanks.
[18:43] <bjsnider> didrocks, in the process, kov also named the shared library differently than yours, and created a separate package called "girl" somethingorother that doesn't exist in ubuntu
[18:53] <Quintasan> good evening
[19:31] <emet> what is the basic procedure for packaging software which has no versioned releases?
[19:32] <directhex> emet, it's in a VCS?
[19:32] <emet> well actually it has versioned releases
[19:33] <emet> nm :o
[19:33] <emet> but the version number is: 20091021
[19:33] <emet> that's I guess the day of release
[19:33] <emet> http://sourceforge.net/projects/reduce-algebra/files/
[19:34] <ScottK> Usually.
[19:36] <directhex> it's numerically sortable, so go with it
[19:41] <emet> so I want to try to package for the first time, so I should just follow the procedure outlined in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing if I want to get it into Ubuntu's repository?
[19:42] <crimsun> I recommend seeing if it's in Debian first.
[19:42] <emet> okay
[19:42] <emet> I just picked some random bug I thought looked interesting
[19:42] <emet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/450233
[19:43] <emet> I'm building it now just to see if I can build it manually
[19:44] <emet> it is taking forever to build
[19:47] <emet> reduce doesn't seem to be in Debian, it's a CAS that'd been open sourced pretty recently
[21:23] <didrocks> bjsnider: I'll have a look mid-january (want to enjoy a little some holidays :)) and will merge the package into lucid. Into karmic, I just make mutter some kind of metacity's clone concerning packaging (reporting some patches, etc.)
[21:24] <bjsnider> i'm giving it the old college try right now


[01:20] <stlsaint> room poke
[01:22] <LinXz> wrong chat window; try Facebook...
[01:25] <stlsaint> LinXz: ha good one
[03:47] <dizzylizzy> hmm
[03:47] <dizzylizzy> i have not used ubuntu in almost a year, how is 12.04?
[03:47] <dizzylizzy> stability-wise
[04:07] <stlsaint> dizzylizzy: stable
[04:07] <stlsaint> even lts worthy stable
[04:14] <dizzylizzy> excellent :)
[05:52] <purchaser_>  Hello! I have a CPU/Memory question: I would like this cpu: Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Mobile Processor i7-3610QM (2.30GHz) 6MB. The memory I would get for it would be 16GB SAMSUNG 1333MHz SODIMM DDR3 MEMORY (4 x 4GB).
[05:53] <purchaser_> Here is my question: would it be very much a good idea to change to memory to: 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 MEMORY (2 x 8GB)
[05:54] <purchaser_> or even 32GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 MEMORY (4 x 8GB)
[05:54] <stlsaint> hey
[05:55] <stlsaint> purchaser_: why change?
[05:55] <purchaser_> for a new laptop
[05:55] <purchaser_> thank you stlsaint
[05:56] <purchaser_> which speed does the cpu work at? I want the memory to be in synch with the speed of the processor
[05:57] <stlsaint> wouldnt it be 2.30Ghz?
[05:58] <purchaser_> that is what i was thinking, but i don't know if it is that simple
[05:58] <stlsaint> well your memory isn't going to be utilized until its needed so how can you compare ram speed against cpu? maybe im missing something. Been awhile since took A+
[05:59] <purchaser_> I am at the moment most concerned about the speed of the memory. I am not really focusing on the quantity of memory i need right now.
[06:00] <purchaser_> Only very few applications would ever need so much memory at the moment, perhaps virtualization applications like VirtualBox
[06:02] <stlsaint> true
[06:02] <stlsaint> and a bunch of open tabs in browser
[06:02] <purchaser_> I had about 20 open tabs in my browser and it wasn't even using one gigabyte of memory
[06:07] <stlsaint> with 20 tabs plus IRC im at 45% ram use of 4gb
[06:18] <benonsoftware> 3 tabs use all of my 2GB of RAM
[06:18] <stlsaint> lol
[06:18] <stlsaint> thats not good
[06:19] <benonsoftware> Well 1.75GB of RAM
[07:13] <HiddenSanity> So... newbie question time! I want to download a free program, they have windows and mac versions, but for linux they just provide the source code and tell you to compile it yourself(for now).  This a reasonably easy feat? I downloaded the latest QT as it was said I'd need at least QT4.6
[07:20] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: So, what are you trying to compile again?
[07:21] <HiddenSanity> Cockatrice
[07:21] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: Have you already extracted the code in a folder in your home folder?
[07:21] <HiddenSanity> Yes.
[07:22] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: Please, open a Terminal and cd to the directory.
[07:25] <HiddenSanity> I'm afraid I'm gonna need to learn that, too...
[07:25] <HiddenSanity> Is it just CD [path]?
[07:26] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: Yes, with cd in not-capital letters.
[07:26] <JoseeAntonioR> s/not/non
[07:29] <JoseeAntonioR> Once you have, issue "/.configure" and then "make && sudo make install", both without quotes.
[07:29] <HiddenSanity> Err... so terminal command should look like: cd /home/folder/folder?
[07:30] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: or just "cd ~/foldernamewhichisinhome/"
[07:31] <HiddenSanity> Ah...
[07:32] <HiddenSanity> Does the '&&' represent something? Or is that literally what I issue?
[07:32] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: Literally
[07:33] <HiddenSanity> Hmmm... and the '/.configure' doesn't seem to work literally entered, some idiot mistake I'm making there?
[07:34] <HiddenSanity> bash: /.configure: no such file or directory
[07:36] <JoseeAntonioR> HiddenSanity: Then skip it.
[07:36] <JoseeAntonioR> I'm sorry, but I have to leave now.
[07:36] <HiddenSanity> Thank you.
[07:37] <HiddenSanity> I'm trying to start learning this stuff on my own, but I kinda want it working soon.
[07:38] <LinXz> HiddenSanity: I've been learning "this stuff" for some years now - be patient; we won't be specialists in a hurry. ;)
[08:07] <dizzylizzy> what
[08:07] <dizzylizzy> you kidding
[08:08] <dizzylizzy> it's not /.configure
[08:08] <dizzylizzy> that would try to run a file named .configure in the root directory
[08:08] <dizzylizzy> you want ./configure which would run the file 'configure' in the current directory
[08:08] <dizzylizzy> HiddenSanity, yeah
[08:09] <dizzylizzy> :P
[08:10] <HiddenSanity> What's better to do instead?
[08:10] <dizzylizzy> ./configure
[08:10] <dizzylizzy> if you get any errors I can probably help with that too
[08:11] <dizzylizzy> by the way, if the program requires Qt, and you are compiling from source, you won't just need to install Qt
[08:12] <dizzylizzy> installing libqt4 will only give you the runtime libraries, to compile with Qt support you will also need libqt4-dev
[08:12] <dizzylizzy> packages with the -dev at the end are used for compiling programs with those things, usually
[08:12] <dizzylizzy> don't forget to install "build-essential", which you will need to copmile just about anything
[08:13] <HiddenSanity> Ah, thank you.
[08:13] <dizzylizzy> i would not be surprised if, even after installing those things, you run into some errors when running "./compile" in the directory you extracted the source to
[08:14] <dizzylizzy> lemme know if anything pops up
[08:15] <HiddenSanity> There doesn't seem to be a make file or anything named configure... I may just be placing myself wrong, though.
[08:15] <HiddenSanity> I might try the cockatrice forums and site more, see if there's anything there.
[08:18] <HiddenSanity> I've tried to cd myself to a few different directories that look promising, including the pre-folder and the main folder it gave me...
[08:18] <HiddenSanity> Hmm... maybe I'll try again in 'src'
[08:19] <LinXz> what did you download HiddenSanity? Perhaps you have a Mac version? (shot in the dark here...)
[08:19] <dizzylizzy> HiddenSanity, it looks like somebody already filed a "bug" to get it built for ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/getdeb.net/+bug/991126
[08:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 991126 in getdeb.net "[Create Package] Cockatrice" [Medium,Fix committed]
[08:19] <dizzylizzy> wow the source code is not very easily compmiled... looking at it now
[08:20] <HiddenSanity> Ah... so I picked a nice one for my first try at it.
[08:24] <dizzylizzy> i'm just trying to figure out what build system they're using
[08:26] <HiddenSanity> Ah well, thank you, I think I'll look into more info on this, then.
[08:26] <dizzylizzy> well that's frustrating
[08:26] <HiddenSanity> But for now, I'll retire, but thanks for trying to help.
[08:26] <dizzylizzy> It appears like they're using KDevelop
[08:26] <dizzylizzy> it's in the repos
[08:27] <dizzylizzy> you can open that folder as a kdevelop project
[08:27] <dizzylizzy> :-/ as much as I'll be able to help i'm afraid
[10:37] <r4y> How do I use Ubuntu to get music onto this phone?: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/allQuestion.do?prd_mdl_name=SCH-R720
[12:08] <LinXz> Can I have a peronal opinion on this channel?
[12:27] <oCean> LinXz: you can have your own opinions, also about other operating systems, but the Ubuntu channels are not a platform to force your opinions on others.
[12:28] <oCean> having said that, #ubuntu-offtopic welcomes constructive discussion on a wide variety of topics. Guidelines apply there also
[12:45] <^zenyhooubby-it> hi!
[12:51] <^zenyhooubby-it> Do you know how upgrade from ubuntu 10.04 to 12 directly?
[12:52] <^zenyhooubby-it> I already did it from 8.04 to 10.04 but now I don't see that option anymore...
[12:56] <^zenyhooubby-it> can you help me please? :)
[12:57] <Sidewinder1> !ask
[12:57] <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[13:03] <^zenyhooubby-it> I want to install ubuntu 12 but the live-usb gives an error message: update firmware drivers etc. from a website. Is it quick to do this?
[13:09] <wilee-nilee> ^zenyhooubby-it the official update for the 10.04 to 12.04 is not available yet, I believe it will be sometime in july, you can force a upgrade but I am of no help with that.
[13:25] <^zenyhooubby-it> back...
[13:28] <^zenyhooubby-it> As I sad before, when I boot ubuntu 12 live-usb, it retrieve an error message of "b43 firmware file not found". I gone to the website writen by the message, http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/b43#devicefirmware, but the page does not exist! any help?
[13:29] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i would just install, and i would get that firmware later
[13:29] <holstein> i have just ran "sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer" before
[13:29] <^zenyhooubby-it> hello holstein!
[13:30] <holstein> you can always refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
[13:30] <^zenyhooubby-it> but it can't install because it says this error
[13:33] <^zenyhooubby-it> so I just have to do that command in terminal now, reboot live-usb and installation will be fine?
[13:33] <holstein> you cant "reboot" a liveUSB
[13:33] <holstein> it'll just reset
[13:33] <holstein> you *might* be able to use the live CD after installing that firmware
[13:34] <holstein> if it were me, i would just install to that USB stick, putting grub on there
[13:34] <holstein> then, i would add whatever firmware, drivers, or software i want, and have myself a customized USB installation
[13:37] <^zenyhooubby-it> I don't understand... I created a live-usb because cd drive is broken. isn't it good?
[13:38] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: sure.. you are asking for changes to be saved in an environment where changes cant be saved
[13:39] <holstein> live CDs or USB are just that... LIVE.. to make changes "persistent" takes some special steps... i would just install to the USB stick if you want a live USB stick with persistent storage, or search around about persistent USB's
[13:39] <holstein> if you are just trying to install the firmware prior to installing as a test, i would just go ahead and install and grab that firmware afterwards from the installation with a wired connection
[13:40] <^zenyhooubby-it> I forgotten to say: now I am on ubuntu 10 installed on pc, not live-usb
[13:41] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: 10.04? 10.10? that guide i linked should apply to most broadcom harware in any version
[13:41] <^zenyhooubby-it> 10.04
[13:41] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
[13:42] <holstein> you can always search for "restricted drivers" in the system menu and let the GUI do it
[13:42] <holstein> you wont be able to add the firmware if you arent connected to the internet... there are work-arounds at that page i linked if you cant temporarily wire the machine up to wired internet
[13:49] <^zenyhooubby-it> Thank you! but I looked at http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43/devices and there isn't my laptop model 3630! so?
[13:50] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: laptop model doesnt matter, its the chipset of the wifi device
[13:50] <^zenyhooubby-it> ok
[13:50] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: there are directions on determining the chipset at that wiki page i linked
[13:51] <^zenyhooubby-it> yes terminal
[13:54] <^zenyhooubby-it> ok I have an bcm4318 [14e4:4318*
[13:55] <^zenyhooubby-it> it seems it is supported
[13:56] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: yes.. as best as it can be, it is
[13:56] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: someone has reverse engineered a driver or 2 for you
[13:57] <^zenyhooubby-it> cool :D
[13:57] <^zenyhooubby-it> so we
[13:57] <^zenyhooubby-it> weird
[13:57] <holstein> yeah?... broadcom only recently started supporting linux
[13:59] <holstein> your harware predates that, so you need to install some software that cannont be included in the kernel, or in ubuntu by default
[14:03] <^zenyhooubby-it> but my internet connection works fine now, doesn't it will stop it? Why I have to do all this work only for install ubuntu 12?
[14:04] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: im not following you
[14:04] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i would just download the 12.04 iso
[14:04] <^zenyhooubby-it> yes I did
[14:04] <holstein> http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/
[14:05] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: ok.. just install that then, the proceedure for installing the firmware in 12.04 will be similar, if not more automatci
[14:05] <holstein> automatic*
[14:06] <^zenyhooubby-it> yes I want but the problem is that error message that don't let me to continue
[14:06] <^zenyhooubby-it> sorry if I don't explained well
[14:07] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i have not seen an error message
[14:08] <holstein> seems to me, you wer running 12.04 live, and wanted to save the firmware in it... you cant
[14:08] <holstein> you'll need to just install 12.04, then install the firmware just as you did to get 10.04 supporting the broadcom chip
[14:08] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: maybe a more localized #ubuntu-* support channel?
[14:10] <^zenyhooubby-it> the message is "b43 firmware file not found" etc. I understand, but I can't install because it don't let me continue, nor I see the menu...
[14:10] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: that is not the name of the file any more
[14:10] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: in that guide i linked you, the instructions are different for 11.10 and above
[14:10] <^zenyhooubby-it> "ucode5.fw
[14:12] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: firmware-b43-installer is the name
[14:12] <holstein> sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
[14:12] <holstein> from within the 12.04 install... and you can try that live
[14:13] <^zenyhooubby-it> how can I type the command within the install?
[14:13] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i would just literally open a terminal and go for it
[14:13] <^zenyhooubby-it> hold shift?
[14:13] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i need to run, but i assure you, after you install 12.04, you can get support for that hardware, just as you do in 10.04
[14:14] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: i would just do it from the menu
[14:14] <holstein> ^zenyhooubby-it: from a terminal in the install, *after* you install 12.04
[14:15] <^zenyhooubby-it> unluckly I can't install... that error blocks it...
[14:16] <^zenyhooubby-it> but thank you, I think to have understand
[14:51] <^zenyhooubby-it> thank you very much holstein :)
[14:51] <^zenyhooubby-it> sorry for bad explaination
[15:09] <^zenyhooubby-it> is there a log of this channel?
[15:11] <Sidewinder1> ^zenyhooubby-it, Many of the ubuntu core channels are logged, please see here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/10/
[15:13] <^zenyhooubby-it> thanks
[15:13] <^zenyhooubby-it> still here holstein?
[15:31] <^zenyhooubby-it> hi again :)
[15:32] <^zenyhooubby-it> can I still update from 10.10 to 11.04?
[20:11] <dhaval> i have installed IDLE. how do i run a python script in there? complete noob here.
[20:18] <ntwrk_keith> in idle
[20:18] <ntwrk_keith> you can do line by line
[20:19] <ntwrk_keith> and it will interpret the lines as u enter them
[20:19] <ntwrk_keith> damnit :(
[21:44] <vinnie_> hi folks!
[21:45] <stlsaint> vinnie_: hello
[21:46] <vinnie_> hi stlsaint - much happenin on here to night
[22:03] <stlsaint> vinnie_: well its 5pm for me so not night just yet
[22:04] <vinnie_> ah ok -its 10pm here!
[22:04] <dragongate> hello
[22:04] <stlsaint> hey
[22:05] <dragongate> can anyone help me?
[22:05] <vinnie_> hi dragongate
[22:05] <fc> Hello, anyone want to help a first time ubuntu user :P
[22:05] <tenach> Greetings.
[22:05] <stlsaint> !ask
[22:05] <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[22:06] <stlsaint> dragongate: ^^
[22:06] <dragongate> Error occurred during initialization of VM Could not reserve enough space for object heap Could not create the Java virtual machine.
[22:06] <dragongate> my problem :S
[22:06] <dragongate> Any idea?
[22:06] <fc> Well, I just installed it for the first time, and my wireless is not working. How do I get that working?
[22:07] <stlsaint> dragongate: how much free space do you have on your computer?
[22:07] <dragongate> my pc or linux vps?
[22:07] <stlsaint> fc: what is wireless card model?
[22:07] <stlsaint> dragongate: are you on a home system or remote vps?
[22:08] <fc> centrino wireless n + wimax 6150, if I'm not mistaken.
[22:08] <dragongate> im using ssh secure shell to connect my vps which i baght for 1 month
[22:09] <dragongate> *baught
[22:09] <stlsaint> dragongate: nested virtualization is not possible
[22:09] <stlsaint> fc: run this command: lspci | grep Wireless
[22:09] <stlsaint> though network will give same result
[22:09] <dragongate> which means?
[22:10] <stlsaint> dragongate: dont try and run a virtual machine on a vps
[22:10] <dragongate> :S
[22:10] <stlsaint> dragongate: what are you wanting to do?
[22:10] <fc> Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N + WiMAX 6150 (rev 67)
[22:10] <dragongate> so complicated
[22:10] <dragongate> well this is first time i trying to add server to vps
[22:10] <stlsaint> fc: please paste all output, including numbers at begining of it
[22:11] <dragongate> and i need compile my java source
[22:11] <stlsaint> dragongate: what type of server?
[22:11] <dragongate> Runescape
[22:11] <fc> 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N + WiMAX 6150 (rev 67)
[22:11] <stlsaint> dragongate: game?
[22:12] <dragongate> yeah runescape private server and i need to compile source couse otherwise source doesnt recocnize run ;P
[22:13] <stlsaint> fc: i think you need to blacklist module. give me one sec
[22:13] <stlsaint> fc: what release are you on?
[22:13] <stlsaint> dragongate: compile whole server from source?
[22:14] <dragongate> well that's what im trying to doo!
[22:14] <fc> I'm on 12.04.
[22:15] <stlsaint> fc: what is make and model of computer
[22:15] <stlsaint> dragongate: what guide are you using?
[22:17] <stlsaint> ??
[22:17] <fc> Asus U56E
[22:17] <stlsaint> fc: acer?
[22:17] <dragongate> actually i asked for help , and one guy helped me.. the thing hes off and i cant ask him
[22:17] <dragongate> :S
[22:17] <stlsaint> dragongate: o_O
[22:17] <dragongate> (sorry for bad grammar)
[22:18] <stlsaint> fc: you know how to use program nano?
[22:19] <fc> Never even heard of it, honestly. I'm sorry for being such a noob at this, and I greatly appreciate all your help.
[22:21] <tenach> fc, no need to apologize; we were all noobs at one point :)
[22:22] <stlsaint> dragongate: i suggest finding a guide on private servers for that game
[22:22] <stlsaint> dragongate: why compile game? Seems you can play online on main servers
[22:22] <stlsaint> fc: open a terminal
[22:22] <stlsaint> fc: enter command: cd /etc/modprobe.d/
[22:23] <stlsaint> fc: enter command: gksudo gedit blacklist.conf
[22:23] <stlsaint> fc: you there?
[22:23] <vinnie_> what i have done with wireless cards that don't work is to remove the card and swop it for one that will defo work - v easy to do -just one solution -perhaps regard it as a last resort...
[22:23] <fc> Yes, I'm there.
[22:24] <stlsaint> fc: make sure you remember how to remove this one line in case this does not work.
[22:24] <fc> Okay, will do.
[22:24] <stlsaint> fc: in that file you opened at the very bottom enter make a space and enter this: blacklist acer_wmi
[22:25] <stlsaint> fc: save, close, reboot. If wireless works....your welcome....if not than remove that line and reboot and come back here
[22:25] <fc> So, go to the bottom line, hit enter, and put that in?
[22:26] <stlsaint> fc: at the bottom of that file, hit enter so the blacklist command has a space above it from the other text
[22:26] <stlsaint> dragongate: ?
[22:26] <vinnie_> sorry to butt in  just a quickie: what is the + at the end of: c r w - r w - - - - + and how would i add it..
[22:26] <stlsaint> vinnie_: how long you been a linux user?
[22:27] <fc> So make sure there is a blank line above it? Because at the bottom I have another blacklist command. I'm probably making this more complicated then it needs to be so sorry.
[22:27] <vinnie_> hi stlsaint - actually since 2008 - but only command line in the last 2 months!
[22:27] <dragongate> sorry man i was afk
[22:28] <stlsaint> fc: yes, make sure there is a space between the blacklist input already there and the one i gave you
[22:28] <stlsaint> vinnie_: ah, well we try and refrain from making the user replace hardware. Key notion with linux ;)
[22:29] <stlsaint> vinnie_: and what is this c r w you speak of cause it sounds like the permissions listing but there is no C permission
[22:29] <vinnie_> oh apologies about that so...
[22:30] <fc> Okay, I'll be back
[22:31] <vinnie_> is c driver, its for video, a web cam
[22:32] <vinnie_> i'll adopt that principle from now on re-hardware
[22:32] <stlsaint> vinnie_: still no idea what your talking about
[22:34] <vinnie_> are you familiar with zoneminder i'm having a bit of trouble getting it working and i think its just a matter of changing permissions for the web camera
[22:35] <stlsaint> vinnie_: nope, sorry
[22:37] <vinnie_> i've installed it on my laptop and its working with permissions for video0 crw-rw - - - - + 1 root, but on a server installation it won't work and the permissions is crw-rw - - - -  1 root and it wont work...
[22:38] <vinnie_> there is no + at the end
[22:38] <stlsaint> vinnie_: maybe the laptop user is in a group that server isnt
[22:39] <vinnie_> i'll have to think about that
[22:40] <stlsaint> fc: guess no go
[22:40] <fc> It didn't work :/ Every couple of minutes while trying to get the connection it will say wireless connect disconnected.
[22:41] <fc> My bad, it says wireless network disconnected.
[22:42] <fc> It will also keep asking me for the router password.
[22:43] <vinnie_> thanks for that stlsaint - ill research it further, see you's later..
[22:44] <stlsaint> fc: open terminal
[22:44] <fc> Okay, ready.
[22:44] <stlsaint> fc: enter: rfkill list all
[22:45] <fc> Want me to post results?
[22:45] <stlsaint> fc: yes
[22:45] <fc> 0: phy0: Wireless LAN 	Soft blocked: no 	Hard blocked: no 1: asus-wlan: Wireless LAN 	Soft blocked: no 	Hard blocked: no 2: asus-wimax: WiMAX 	Soft blocked: no 	Hard blocked: no
[22:47] <stlsaint> fc: bad news or good news first
[22:47] <fc> Ehh, hit me with the bad news
[22:48] <stlsaint> fc: you will possibly need different kernel
[22:49] <fc> Will I have no clue how to do that, so make me feel better with some good news now. lol
[22:49] <fc> Well*
[22:50] <stlsaint> fc: good news is a new kernel propose's a fix
[22:50] <fc> Hmm, so where might I find this kernel?
[22:50] <stlsaint> good news=you need a different kernel, bad news=you need a different kernel
[22:52] <stlsaint> great news is you should't have to recompile the kernel for module
[22:53] <stlsaint> fc: its really strange cause your driver has been included in mainline kernel since 2.6.24
[22:54] <fc> Yeah, it's weird because my friend told me I shouldn't have had a problem. Is it because I'm still also dual booting Windows?
[22:54] <eok> Hello, i just made a thread in ubuntu forums, does it need to be moderated before it shows up? I can't find it
[22:55] <stlsaint> fc: no that is no issue
[22:55] <stlsaint> eok: under your control panel look under your post listings. Does it show up there?
[22:56] <eok> i dont have any post listing under cp
[22:56] <stlsaint> fc: run this command: dmesg | grep iwl
[22:56] <eok> but i dont find it when i search my own threads
[22:56] <stlsaint> eok: you probably took to long to post and your session ended prior to you hitting the submit button
[22:57] <stlsaint> eok: try again at post
[22:57] <eok> fuu, it was so long..
[22:57] <stlsaint> eok: thus your session ended
[22:57] <fc> [   26.872815] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 17 [   26.872826] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: setting latency timer to 64 [   26.872850] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: pci_resource_len = 0x00002000 [   26.872852] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: pci_resource_base = ffffc900057b4000 [   26.872854] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: HW Revision ID = 0x67 [   26.872978] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: irq 51 for MSI/MSI-X [   26.873017] iwlwifi 0000:02:
[22:57] <eok> took me forever to make it..
[22:57] <stlsaint> fc: alright we are gonna use paste.ubuntu.com from now on to paste output ;)
[22:58] <stlsaint> fc: please repaste that output into paste.ubuntu.com
[22:58] <eok> yay, i still had it in history :)
[22:58] <stlsaint> eok: maybe you could just ask your question here?
[22:58] <fc> I'm sorry lol.
[22:58] <stlsaint> fc: no prob. if you wanted a even easier method install application pastebinit
[22:58] <stlsaint> a fav of mine
[22:58] <stlsaint> fc: sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[22:59] <fc> [   26.872815] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 17 [   26.872826] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: setting latency timer to 64 [   26.872850] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: pci_resource_len = 0x00002000 [   26.872852] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: pci_resource_base = ffffc900057b4000 [   26.872854] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: HW Revision ID = 0x67 [   26.872978] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: irq 51 for MSI/MSI-X [   26.873017] iwlwifi 0000:02:
[22:59] <stlsaint> fc: dang you
[22:59] <fc> Ahh, it still came out weird
[22:59] <stlsaint> fc: dude go to paste.ubuntu.com
[22:59] <stlsaint> fc: paste the output there and hit the submit button
[22:59] <stlsaint> fc: OORRRR just install pastebinit
[23:00] <eok> stlsaint: uhm i just copy pasted it in a new thread now.. it's not showing up
[23:01] <eok> am i missing something, or must i wait for it to be moderated?
[23:01] <stlsaint> eok: is this your first post to forums?
[23:02] <stlsaint> naw, nevermind im thinking elsewhere. No your post should show fine
[23:02] <stlsaint> fc: you install pastebinit? Are you on linux using ethernet now?
[23:02] <eok> its my first thread yes
[23:02] <fc> I installed pastebinit, but how do I get it to it now? And yes, I'm on a wired connection now.
[23:03] <stlsaint> eok: should be fine. I would start a new thread and re-type post
[23:04] <stlsaint> fc: enter command: dmesg | grep iwl | pastebinit
[23:04] <stlsaint> fc: give me the url that outputs
[23:04] <eok> i think it needs to be moderated :) poor moderator, will find at least 3 duplicate threads from me :P
[23:05] <fc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1034642/
[23:05] <stlsaint> fc: nice little app huh ;)
[23:05] <fc> Very useful, so the stuff I post isn't all over the place haha
[23:05] <stlsaint> yes
[23:05] <stlsaint> i love that app
[23:06] <stlsaint> fc: alright solution still stands and is confirmed by that output
[23:06] <fc> So I need a new kernel for sure?
[23:06] <stlsaint> fc: the iwlagn driver (one you would be using had it work) is a really good driver with pre-linux 3.x
[23:06] <stlsaint> everything after linux 3.x and this driver went to crap
[23:07] <stlsaint> fc: so yes, a 2.6.xx kernel is needed
[23:07] <fc> Can you point in the right direction to get it, and how to do it? Thank you, so much for all your time.
[23:07] <fc> point me*
[23:07] <devxdev> anyone know where files go after `bzr branch` command?
[23:08] <stlsaint> fc: OORRR you could install say ubuntu 10.04 which is really a favorite of mind and it still has support until april 2013 :D
[23:08] <stlsaint> and your wireless will (should, but probably more than likely will) work out the box along with everything else ;D
[23:08] <stlsaint> fc: ^^
[23:08] <stlsaint> devxdev: in the directory you were in
[23:08] <devxdev> aah damn thank you :D
[23:09] <stlsaint> devxdev: :D
[23:09] <fc> Lol sounds good to me. Now where do I go to get that :P
[23:09] <fc> And do I need to uninstall this version first?
[23:09] <stlsaint> fc: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/
[23:10] <stlsaint> fc: install that over your current
[23:10] <stlsaint> fc: DONT choose the alternate cd or you will be left with no gui to install from
[23:11] <stlsaint> fc: choose dvd-i386 or amd64 of course
[23:11] <fc> You sir are amazing.
[23:12] <stlsaint> fc: naw, just a guy who received help from another great person in this channel when i first came to ubuntu returning the same
[23:13] <stlsaint> fc: got that help here and never left ;) hopefully i can influence you to join this team/channel and offer support to others. Or just kick it and hang out chatting
[23:13] <stlsaint> though we chat in #ubuntu-beginners-team
[23:13] <stlsaint> or #ubuntuforums (no support as you saw)
[23:13] <fc> Thanks, I'm glad there are people like you. Now, one more help needed from my stupidty lol. Which exact download should I pick.
[23:14] <fc> for*
[23:14] <stlsaint> fc: lol, alright you using i386 or amd64?
[23:14] <fc> And yeah for sure I'll go in the chat channel.
[23:14] <fc> I think amd64. That's for 64 bit right?
[23:14] <stlsaint> yep
[23:14] <stlsaint> fc: open terminal ;)
[23:15] <fc> Lol already ahead of you
[23:15] <stlsaint> fc: uname -a
[23:15] <stlsaint> fc: its one line so past it here
[23:15] <fc> Linux ubuntu 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10 20:39:51 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[23:15] <stlsaint> yep your on 64bit
[23:16] <stlsaint> fc: in terminal: sudo apt-get install wget
[23:16] <stlsaint> fc: if its already there than fine
[23:16] <fc> Yeah, I have it.
[23:16] <stlsaint> fc: in terminal: cd Downloads
[23:17] <stlsaint> fc: the following command i give you will start the download in the terminal, let it run, if you accidentaly close the terminal than just re-enter the command by hitting up arrow and the download will resume at the point it was at. way better than direct download via browser
[23:18] <stlsaint> fc: wget -c http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/ubuntu-12.04-dvd-amd64.iso
[23:18] <fc> Wait a sec, I thought I was suppose to get 10?
[23:18] <stlsaint> lol ah crap
[23:18] <stlsaint> fc: good catch there. that would have been hilarious
[23:19] <fc> lmao I noticed it just when i started downloading
[23:20] <stlsaint> fc: wget -c http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lucid/daily-live/current/lucid-desktop-amd64.iso
[23:20] <stlsaint> fc: i think thats right ;)
[23:21] <stlsaint> naw it is
[23:21] <fc> You positive you not trying to give me the same version I already have again? lol okay it's downloading
[23:22] <stlsaint> fc: well if it is same you always know where to find me to yell at
[23:22] <stlsaint> fc: or type capital letters at should i say
[23:23] <fc> I'm gonna hold you to that.
[23:23] <fc> You know I find it ironic that I'm going to school right now for software engineering, but have yet to get much experience at all :|
[23:25] <stlsaint> fc: what year?
[23:25] <fc> Well, maybe that's why I don't know. Im about to start 1st year lol. It's because I was originally going for programming then I switched majors, and schools so now I'm basically starting over.
[23:27] <stlsaint> fc: naw, your starting early which is way excellent
[23:27] <stlsaint> lot of you young kids coming up invovled with this stuff are making your resume beef nicely with linux experience
[23:30] <fc> Yeah I'm trying to get a head start on things, but it's hard to contain all the information. Especially when I have to be in those intro classes where i barely learn anything, and it makes me forget the important stuff I already knew.
[23:31] <stlsaint> fc: join back to #ubuntuforums for chat
[23:47] <fc> Okay, so it's finisihed downloading. How do I install it over this version now?
[23:48] <stlsaint> fc: just install it same way you did. it should give you the option to erase and install your 10.04
[23:48] <fc> I installed 12.04 from windows though.
[23:49] <stlsaint> O_O
[23:49] <stlsaint> dude you did a wubi install?
[23:50] <fc> Yeah.
[23:50] <stlsaint> smh
[23:50] <stlsaint> dang wubi
[23:50] <fc> Why, whats wrong with it?
[23:50] <stlsaint> fc: well that makes things easy. simply use add/remove programs within windows to remove 12.04
[23:51] <fc> Okay, then how do I get 10.04 in windows
[23:55] <stlsaint> fc: do it the same way you did 12.04 if you want
[23:56] <fc___> hmm browser crashed.
[23:57] <stlsaint> firefox huh? smh
[23:57] <fc___> Actually chrome. First time ever
[23:58] <fc___> Okay so I know how to delete 12.04 with windows. How do I then install 10.04? I don't have a CD right now to do it that way.


[16:04] <schlazor> I had a really nice thing going with a zbox atom/nvidia gforce gt 610 but now all hd content stutters. using nvidia 331. Is that a bad driver version? vdpauinfo says normal things. Frontend log during playback emits "mythplayer.cpp:2135 (PrebufferEnoughFrames) Player(0): Waited 102ms for video buffers AAfAALfAAAAAAA" repeatedly
[16:05] <schlazor> wired gigE, no packet errors or anything
[16:08] <schlazor> lol just kidding, can't transfer data faster than 10mbit. time to find out why!
[16:12] <schlazor> time for a new switch apparently. thanks for listening!


[23:59] <ClassBot> Slides for Lernid Testing Session: https://sites.google.com/site/gruberdocuments/engineering-docs/Lernid0.8.2.pdf
[23:59] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/01/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.