[10:24] <superjoe> dr, willis ok, so, whats the 1st stept
[10:24] <_nAtic> the game
[10:25] <_nAtic> there is no copyprotection
[10:25] <Dr_willis> _nAtic,  How do you know theres none?
[10:25] <_nAtic> -.-
[10:25] <hepme> you mean just to mount your cdrom?
[10:25] <_nAtic> there is a thing like windows.... Dr_willis
[10:25] <Dr_willis> May need to track down some better no-cd cracks for it. or configure your wine settings perhaps.
[10:25] <_nAtic> ah, great idea... wait, i'll try
[10:25] <Dr_willis> or check the wine forums/guides for that specific game and any tweaks needed to get it working.
[10:26] <_nAtic> (wine configs, i mean... there is no need for a no-cd crack or something
[10:26] <hepme> i bet kqemu could run games fast
[10:26] <superjoe> how do i look in kubuntu to see what wireless card I have?
[10:26] <_nAtic> kqemu?
[10:26] <Dr_willis> superjoe,  check the kubuntu forums on wireless.
[10:26] <hepme> the accelerator for qemu, not free though :(
[10:26] <nabla> Hi, has anybody had DCopserver trying to access the kde wallet?
[10:26] <Yakotey> hi all
[10:26] <Dr_willis> No need for a no-cd crack? Copyprotection is one of the biggest stumbling blocks with Wine and its relatives...
[10:27] <Dr_willis> superjoe,  the 'lspci' command is  normally used to see the cards you got.
[10:27] <Yakotey> need help : I just made a full upgrade and I lost Windows Xp option on my grub
[10:28] <hepme> why do people game on pc's anyway when it's so much smoother on a console box
[10:28] <Dr_willis> why to people game at all.. its a waste of time.
[10:29] <_nAtic> hm... winetools won't start -.-
[10:29] <Dr_willis> to be honest.. i find gaming better on pc's :) but i dont game much any more.
[10:29] <hepme> yeah, i dont do it, no game has impressed me enough yet. i'm waitin for virtual reality games
[10:29] <hepme> WII is close but not close enough
[10:29] <windwalker> fdoving, I installed x11vnc, but I have problems with mouse and keyboard. I can move the mouse over objects, but I cannot do anything more. Can you tell me the process using Desktop Sharing. I want to kill it...with pleasure.
[10:29] <Dr_willis> Its possible you have it set to 'view only' windwalker
[10:30] <windwalker> sure not
[10:30] <_nAtic> hm... you all use kubuntu, or ubuntu?
[10:30] <windwalker> even last session was fine with Desktop Sharing and the same viewer. As I said if I move over a object I can se context menus appearing
[10:30] <_nAtic> kubuntu has its own repositories, maintained by the ubuntu team, right?
[10:31] <superjoe> what forum should I go to for a guide on setting up my wireless network
[10:31] <morphado> hello can some one help me
[10:31] <fdoving> windwalker: sorry, i'm not into desktop sharing, i know very little about it.
[10:31] <soulrider> _nAtic: i use kubuntu
[10:31] <fdoving> morphado: depends what your problem is.
[10:31] <_nAtic> kubuntu has its own repositories, maintained by the ubuntu team, right? soulrider
[10:31] <soulrider> _nAtic: i think kubuntu and ubuntu use the same repos
[10:31] <morphado> i have a problem with kubuntu 6.10 shutdown
[10:31] <bobleny> Ok, partition I need to mount is hdb2 which is an ext'd, when I run this command, "mount -t vfat /dev/hdb2 /media/windows", I get and error. How do I mount an ext'd partition?
[10:31] <soulrider> the only difference is that kubuntu has kde instead of gnome
[10:31] <_nAtic> yeah, so do i
[10:31] <Dr_willis> I tend to use Tightvnc, or Vnc4Server and have 'hidden' desktops. ive not used x11vnc  that i can rember.
[10:31] <coreymon77> guys
[10:31] <morphado> i tried acpi = force but no help
[10:31] <_nAtic> i just want to know, if there are a lot of problems with that...
[10:32] <Dr_willis> bobbyd,  ext'd --- means what exactly?
[10:32] <coreymon77> has jpg previewing been disabled in lubuntu edgy for some reason?
[10:32] <_nAtic> suse linux has no such thing... the repos are run by some hobby-students :]
[10:32] <soulrider> _nAtic: no problems at all
[10:32] <soulrider> _nAtic: suse sucks
[10:32] <_nAtic> and i get a few probs... does not mean suse suxx, it is maybe my fault
[10:32] <soulrider> i installed it and didnt lasta  week on my machine, YAST sucked ass
[10:32] <bobleny> IDK, but I think it's short for extended...
[10:33] <soulrider> _nAtic: kubutu is much better ;)
[10:33] <bobleny> I realize, I can't actually mount the extended partition though...
[10:33] <soulrider> im so bored.....
[10:33] <_nAtic> kubuntu has no yast :P
[10:33] <_nAtic> no ifstatus
[10:34] <soulrider> yast is terrible
[10:34] <soulrider> and, suse uses RPM, we use deb
[10:34] <_nAtic> don't know the difference
[10:34] <soulrider> i also tried mandriva... and it was installed for  around 30 minutes :P
[10:34] <_nAtic> why should deb be better?
[10:34] <soulrider> _nAtic: apparently it is
[10:34] <morphado> i have a problem with kubuntu 6.10 shutdown
[10:34] <morphado> i have a problem with kubuntu 6.10 shutdown
[10:34] <_nAtic> i have mandrake 8.0 over here
[10:34] <HymnToLife> that's the mein thing I have against Suse/MAndriva/Fedora
[10:34] <goodthing> bobleny: entended or primary should not matter, you should only be sure to mount the partition INSIDE the extended part in the case it is an extended part on the disk
[10:34] <HymnToLife> the damn RPM thingie
[10:34] <soulrider> morphado: how about elaborating a bit ?
[10:34] <HymnToLife> main*
[10:34] <_nAtic> so why?
[10:35] <morphado> soulrider what do u mean
[10:35] <goodthing> bobleny: and what error?
[10:35] <soulrider> explain you problem in depht
[10:35] <morphado> ok
[10:35] <nabla> Sometimes when I reboot into Kubuntu, DCopserver asks for access to the kdewallet and screws up KnetworkManager , any ideas?
[10:35] <_nAtic> use ifup
[10:36] <_nAtic> use ifup nabla
[10:36] <nabla> I have to restart the KnetworkManager process.
[10:36] <morphado> when i shutdown the screen close but the computer hangs on
[10:36] <soulrider> nabla: what kind of connection do you have ?
[10:36] <nabla> ifup? what for?
[10:36] <nabla> Wireless conenction.
[10:36] <soulrider> morphado: i dont know what the problem mey bae. try looking int he forums ( http://ubuntuforums.org ) maybe the answer is there
[10:36] <soulrider> sorry, cant help you there nabla
[10:37] <_nAtic> ifup works perfectly
[10:37] <nabla> I think I got around it by clearing the password used for the wallet, but I don't like doing that.
[10:37] <morphado> ok they proposed a solution by adding a line to menu.lst
[10:37] <bobleny> First, hdb only has 3 partitons, hdb1, which is boot at FAT32, hdb2 at EXT'd and hdb5 at FAT32.
[10:37] <morphado> but it only don't work they sais it is a bug in the kernet
[10:37] <cavallinux> hola
[10:38] <Dr_willis> You mount hdb5 then , ignore hdb2 if its an extended partition, its actually holding hdb5
[10:38] <cavallinux> hello
[10:38] <cavallinux> hi
[10:38] <cavallinux> xD
[10:38] <bobleny> hdb 5 was my windows "D:\" drive.
[10:38] <cavallinux> ;)
[10:38] <cavallinux> :D
[10:38] <cavallinux> bye
[10:39] <bobleny> when I try to mount hdb2, I get this error, ""
[10:39] <nabla> well I have no problems using my Wireless connection, only that the damn DCopserver for some reason wants access to the kdewallet and when it does so KnetworkManager gets screwed and I have to restart knetwork process to regain Wireless access.
[10:39] <bobleny> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdb2,
[10:39] <bobleny>        missing codepage or other error
[10:39] <bobleny>        (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition,
[10:39] <bobleny>        instead of some logical partition inside?)
[10:39] <bobleny>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
[10:39] <bobleny>        dmesg | tail  or so
[10:39] <goodthing> !pastebin | bobleny
[10:39] <fdoving> !pastebin | bobleny
[10:39] <ubotu> bobleny: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[10:39] <soulrider> bobleny: please use the apstebin
[10:39] <Dr_willis> bobbyd,  i jsut said.. you DONT mount hdb2 if its an extended partition, its Holding hdb5 - you mount hdb5
[10:40] <nabla> I know other people have the same problem.
[10:40] <nabla> Its annoying.
[10:40] <soulrider> !motu
[10:40] <ubotu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[10:40] <bobleny> oh, sorry, I never herd of a pastebin...
[10:41] <Dr_willis> pastebining the generic 'mount failed' error message isent too handy anyway. :)
[10:42] <Dr_willis> i am getting my nicks messed up.. :)
[10:42] <bobleny> well, if hdb2 is holding hdb5, then hdb1 is the drive I want :)
[10:42] <Dr_willis> bobleny,   (aren't you trying to mount an extended partition, instead of some logical partition inside?)
[10:43] <Dr_willis> :)
[10:43] <Dr_willis> Mount both of them and see whats inside.. like a fortune cookie.
[10:44] <bobleny> I didnt know hdb2 was etended when I tried to mount it
[10:44] <Dr_willis> 'fdisk -l' shows a lot of handy info. :)
[10:44] <bobleny> Mr_willis was too late intelling me not to mount it
[10:44] <Dr_willis> windows likes to use extend3ed partitions all over the place.. I tend to use all primaries
[10:45] <bobleny> I don't like windows....
[10:45] <bobleny> Thats why I have Ubuntu!
[10:46] <goodthing> bobleny: so what happens when you try and mount /dev/hda5 as fat32?
[10:46] <Dr_willis> Now its time to learn how to use linux. :)
[10:46] <bobleny> I get the "D:\" drive in windows, I needed the "C:\"
[10:47] <goodthing> right, then you probable need to mount hda1, but again use fdisk -l to look into that
[10:47] <bobleny> Do you know what the linux equvlant of "Windows Explorer" is?
[10:48] <Dr_willis> bobleny,  dont make me get out my hammer again.
[10:48] <Dr_willis> KDE uses Konqueror as its file manager and as a web browser.
[10:48] <Dr_willis> thers proberly about 20+ OTHER file managers you could use also.
[10:48] <bobleny> Yeah, I know. I wish it didnt
[10:48] <Dr_willis> some even try to emulate windows lame interface.
[10:48] <HymnToLife> bobleny, what's wrong with Konq ?
[10:48] <bobleny> No, I don't want to do that
[10:48] <Dr_willis> wich what diddnet?
[10:49] <Dr_willis> :)
[10:49] <bobleny> I just dont like konqorer
[10:49] <Dr_willis> Once you learn how Konqueror works.. you will spit on Explorer.
[10:49] <fdoving> tried krusader?
[10:49] <Dr_willis> you are falling down the same MS mentality. :) "I knwo MS.. so i want MS"
[10:49] <dhq> need help setting up bluetooth i cannot discover bluetooth from my cell nothing i am using a intel dell latitude d505 laptop bluetooth builtin
[10:49] <bobleny> I like the simplicity of windows explorer...
[10:49] <Dr_willis> Then install somthing else..
[10:49] <bobleny> Like what?
[10:50] <Dr_willis> google.com  'linux file managers'
[10:50] <Dr_willis> "_
[10:50] <coreymon77> guys
[10:50] <Dr_willis> :)
[10:50] <coreymon77> can you answer my question
[10:50] <fdoving> bobleny: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm is a good read.
[10:50] <coreymon77> has jpeg previewing been disabled in edgy for some reason
[10:50] <bobleny> Ok corey, ill shut up...
[10:50] <Dr_willis> coreymon77,  not that ive noticed.
[10:50] <Dr_willis> coreymon77,  its working here.
[10:51] <coreymon77> cause for some reason, since since ive upgraqded to edgy and kde 355, it hasnt worked
[10:51] <Dr_willis> it can be disabled with an option. perhaos it got set some how.
[10:51] <coreymon77> other image formats work fine though
[10:52] <Dr_willis> thats odd.
[10:52] <Crell> Happy New Year, all.
[10:52] <coreymon77> and the kde channel says its not a problem on their end either
[10:52] <Dr_willis> coreymon77,  try making a new user, and see if it affects them also.
[10:53] <coreymon77> okay
[10:53] <coreymon77> ill try that
[10:53] <vulcanius> when compiling a new kernel... or rather when recompiling the same kernel for performance tuning reasons is it still necessary to recompile the proprietary ati/nvidia drivers afterwards?
[10:53] <coreymon77> Dr_willis: ill be back
[10:54] <Crell> I'm having an issue with K3b under Edgy.  I'm trying to burn some DVD ISO images, but it seems every other burn attempt fails.  K3b claims it succeeds, but it ends up burning only a small fraction of the disk.  The dialog includes the error "unable to WRITE@LBA=10h: Input/output error".
[10:54] <Crell> When I hit burn a second time, though, it works fine.
[10:54] <Dr_willis> vulcanius,  the version #'s may differ. or the old modules may get cleaned out.   so it may be needed to reinstall/recompile them
[10:54] <Crell> Any idea how I can manage to burn things without creating one coaster per image? :-)
[10:55] <vulcanius> Dr_willis: k, thanks man
[10:55] <dhq> Dr_willis: need help setting up bluetooth i cannot discover bluetooth from my cell nothing i am using a intel dell latitude d505 laptop bluetooth builtin
[10:56] <lajene> Hi, can anyone help me setting up my dualscreen?
[10:56] <cathal> since u mentioned burning, i have a problem reading verbatim discs, even thoush i just burned something on to them with K3B
[10:56] <Dr_willis> dhq,  bluetooth is such a hassle..  :) i relber gettting it working once ages ago.. i installed a lot of kde-bluetooth things and read the wiki page.. edited some pin file by hand.. and it magicially worked... once. :)
[10:56] <Dr_willis> lajene,  what is your video card?
[10:57] <dhq> Dr_willis: where do i get more info on setting it up
[10:57] <lajene> Dr_willis: Its onboard on my dell inspiron 1150, how can i see the brand of the videocard?
[10:57] <Dr_willis> dhq,  the ubuntu wiki/forums is where i looked.
[10:58] <Dr_willis> lajene,  look at the docs for the machine? lspci output? what does the box say? :)
[10:58] <Dr_willis> lajene,  for nvidia and ati cards - you will need to isntall the ati or nvidia drivers for whatever you have.
[10:59] <lajene> Dr_willis: Im no shark at ubuntu, its my first installation of any other os than windows:) as far as i remember its an Intel card
[10:59] <lajene> will try looking it up at dell.com
[11:02] <fritsch> lajene: just do: lspci
[11:02] <fritsch> lajene: in a terminal
[11:03] <fritsch> lajene: it will tell you everything, just look for VGA
[11:03] <lajene> Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device
[11:04] <lajene> How do i setup dualscreen with that graphics card?
[11:04] <coreymon77> Dr_willis: it works on the other account
[11:05] <ejm> !kde
[11:05] <ubotu> KDE (http://kde.org) is the K Desktop Environment. To install from Ubuntu: "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop", or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE for other ways to get KDE
[11:05] <Dr_willis> coreymon77,  that imples its some goofy user setting.  in your .kde dir - ive seen issues with that in the past. Tell that to the #KDE guys and they can proberly help ya pinpoint what one.. or do a hard core clean out of .kde :)
[11:06] <ejm> I'm trying to update kubuntu to kde 3.5.5 if it exists
[11:07] <Dr_willis> ejm,  thats what im using right now.. :) i dont recall doing nything special to get it.. heh
[11:07] <Dr_willis> or did i update my sources.list a long time ago?
[11:07] <lajene> Dr_willis: I have heard about "cinematix" or stomething like  that, was the way of doing it. But it just loads and then quits without a word
[11:07] <Dr_willis> lajene,  you need to get the proper video card drivers working for your video card (whatever it is) then check in to enabling xinerama for your card also.
[11:08] <Dr_willis> Ive not touched an Intel based video card in ages.. so cant help ya there if its an intel card.
[11:08] <Crell> No one knwos about DVD burning issues?
[11:08] <Crell> knows.  (bah)
[11:08] <ejm> what intel card?
[11:08] <ejm> I'm an intel user.
[11:09] <ejm> I'll tell you right now that 3d accel. sucks on it, so it's better to get an nvidia if you can.
[11:10] <ejm> Dr_willis, is there a webpage that has where the repo. for kde 3.5.5 is?
[11:10] <lajene> I cant, its not possible to change the vga card on my laptop:( I know how to download drivers to Windows, but where do i find drivers to ubuntu?
[11:10] <ejm> it should be installed automatically.
[11:10] <Dr_willis> ejm,  check the Kubuntu homepage/forums/wiki perhaps?
[11:11] <ejm> are you wanting xgl or beryl? because I'll tell you now--they don't work, and when they do, the rendering speed is so crappy that using Firefox and nothing else will be a challenge!
[11:11] <ejm> doh!
[11:11] <ejm> lol
[11:11] <ejm> just found it!
[11:12] <Dr_willis> ejm,  i think i just apt-get updated, and upgraded and got it. i dont see any kde specific entrys in my sources.list
[11:12] <ejm> wish I'd kept firefox up for a second sooner.
[11:12] <ejm> ok
[11:12] <Crell> ejm: I find that varies widely with the video card in question.
[11:12] <ejm> I don't like using apt-get for some reason. I prefer synaptic or adept
[11:12] <ejm> what intel card are you using?
[11:13] <ejm> I have an intel 915.
[11:13] <Dr_willis> are a lot of the  repositories slow/lagged/down at this time? i heard mention of an earthquake in tiwan or somwhere..
[11:14] <ejm> well, I just got my kubuntu started for the first time.
[11:14] <ejm> Coming from a suse world, it ain't too bad.
[11:14] <ejm> but, I'd like this crappy silicon agp card to work a lot Faster!
[11:15] <Kr4t05> ejm: What brand is it?
[11:15] <Crell> Dr_willis: There was an earthquake near Taiwan a few days ago that knocked out a lot of Asian network hubs.  If you're not going through an Asian server, though, it shouldn't have a drastic effect on your Net.
[11:15] <ejm> I'm not sure. oh hang on.
[11:16] <Kr4t05> ejm: run 'glxinfo' from a terminal
[11:16] <ejm> SiS6326
[11:16] <ejm> I don't have direct rendering.
[11:16] <Kr4t05> Oh...
[11:16] <Kr4t05> Man, get an nVidia. :P
[11:16] <ejm> That's what I did first. I haven't done much looking around yet, so I'm not in a big hurry.
[11:16] <ejm> yeah
[11:17] <ejm> You can run anything with an nvidia, and it'll be fast.
[11:17] <Kr4t05> ATI needs to get their act together with drivers before I'll consider them.
[11:17] <ejm> I bet it's so old that the rendering on it'll be horrid if I get it working.
[11:17] <draik> fdoving: What do I backup if I want to do  complete backup of kubuntu?
[11:17] <ejm> hah
[11:18] <ejm> suse 10.2 won't work with ati anymore.
[11:18] <draik> I have only used 3.2GB and I can back that up on a blank DVD
[11:18] <ejm> too many bugs.
[11:18] <Crell> ATI = open source and crappy.  nVidia = closed source but pretty good.  That's been the status for many years now. :-(
[11:18] <draik> I just don't know what to backup
[11:18] <Dr_willis> Crell,  ive noticed my torrent downloads are low also. :P
[11:18] <Crell> That could be, if there's fewer people on them.
[11:18] <ejm> I'd rather have a closed source driver that supports linux really good and users will curse with the brand name.
[11:19] <ejm> than an open source driver that sucks.
[11:19] <ejm> like intel
[11:19] <Crell> Agreed, right up until they start putting DRM into the drivers.
[11:19] <ejm> ouch! the agp card's opengl 1.2 compliant!
[11:20] <ejm> I got this crappy tower from a guy who gets stuff from the college here.
[11:20] <ejm> It's got a slot 1 pentium 3.
[11:20] <ejm> which explains quite a bit.
[11:20] <Kr4t05> ejm: I can recommend a good OpenGL 2.0 with shaders and decent drivers for under $50
[11:20] <Kr4t05> Oh...
[11:21] <soulrider> Crell: why would they put DRM on hteir drivers?
[11:21] <draik> If I want to create a complete backup of my kubuntu partition which is only using up 3.2GB, how would I back it up to fit on one blank DVD?
[11:21] <ejm> only 256 ram..and a PS that I "modded" to fit in.
[11:21] <Crell> Enforcing HDMI?
[11:21] <Kr4t05> soulrider: To keep an eye on their users. The same way Sony added a rootkit to their music CDs.
[11:21] <soulrider> 3.2 gb fit on one DVD
[11:22] <Dr_willis> draik,  may want to check in to the 'mondo/mindi' tools - it can  make self-bootable restore disk sets.
[11:22] <draik> Dr_willis: mondo/mindi?
[11:22] <Dr_willis> draik,  thats  the name. :)
[11:22] <Dr_willis> !info mondo
[11:22] <ubotu> mondo: powerful disaster recovery suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.08-2-2 (edgy), package size 391 kB, installed size 1128 kB
[11:22] <Kr4t05> Dr_willis: I would do that, but it would take about 27 CD-R :P
[11:22] <Dr_willis> !Info mindi
[11:22] <ubotu> mindi: creates boot/root disks based on your system. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.09-2ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 152 kB, installed size 732 kB (Only available for amd64 i386 ia64)
[11:22] <Kr4t05> 30.67GB of data on my discs. :P
[11:23] <Dr_willis> Redundant-array-of-cheap-file-servers  come in handy
[11:23] <Dr_willis> 30gb? thats it?
[11:23] <soulrider> Kr4t05: i got around 200 gb of data =/
[11:23] <Dr_willis> 200gb? thats it?
[11:23] <Dr_willis> :)
[11:23] <ejm> I tried kde 4 on my suse laptop, and it looks good (with what works lol)
[11:23] <_Snatch_> hi
[11:23] <Dr_willis> i crammed this box full of hds.. got like 7 hd's and 1.25tb of drive space now. ;)
[11:23] <Kr4t05> soulrider: I intend to have a central server weighing in at 5TB when I get my own place.
[11:23] <soulrider> ok
[11:24] <soulrider> thats aweosme
[11:24] <soulrider> i got 2 HDs
[11:24] <soulrider> 240 gb total
[11:24] <soulrider> i try to put everything into DVDs
[11:24] <soulrider> but im SOOOOOOOOOO lazy :P
[11:24] <Kr4t05> 2 HDDs. 190GB total. :/
[11:24] <Kr4t05> No...
[11:24] <Kr4t05> 180GB*
[11:24] <soulrider> and udal layer DVDs are SO expensive
[11:24] <_Snatch_> can sombody tell me how to change the sources.list file????????
[11:24] <ejm> yeah
[11:24] <Kr4t05> My e-penis is small, but I make up for it. ;)
[11:24] <Dr_willis> _Snatch_,  its an ascii text file. use an editor you like
[11:25] <soulrider> _Snatch_: press alt f2 and type "kdesu kate /etc/sources/list"
[11:25] <ejm> vi /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:25] <soulrider> sources.list sorry
[11:25] <Dr_willis> !souces
[11:25] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about souces - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:25] <ejm> whichever you perfer
[11:25] <Dr_willis> !apt
[11:25] <ubotu> APT is the Advanced Package Tool, which together with dpkg forms the basic Ubuntu package management toolkit. Short apt-get manual: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGetHowto - Also see !Synaptic (Gnome) or !Adept (KDE)
[11:25] <_Snatch_> thnx
[11:25] <soulrider> Kr4t05: lets face it, most of us who want ac rapload of storage dont really need it
[11:25] <ejm> I wish adept worked on suse.
[11:25] <ejm> synaptic does already.
[11:25] <soulrider> or need it for stuff thats not to nice to have :P
[11:26] <soulrider> doesnt suse use RPM ?
[11:26] <Kr4t05> soulrider: True.
[11:26] <Dr_willis> ya got those apt4rpm stuff :)
[11:26] <ejm> yeah
[11:26] <soulrider> Kr4t05: probably i dont even have 7 GB of legla stuff on my HDs
[11:27] <ejm> lol apt4rpm can kill an rpm distro so fast if you're not careful.
[11:27] <goodthing> Dr_willis: you can use 'apt-cache policy kdebase' for that, it's not the package you have installed, but it shows that kde 3.5.5 is in dapper kubuntu.org main, which is the standard sources.list afaik
[11:27] <Kr4t05> soulrider: Let me see here...
[11:28] <ejm> I really hate the dri on this card. it's murder to mess with adept's settings.
[11:28] <_Snatch_> soulrider: thanx so mux!
[11:30] <lajene> How come i  dont get any response when using "apt-cache search racing game"?
[11:31] <ejm> well, thank youi all for the konversation, but I'm going to be updating kde for a while lol. So, I'll be back after a while.
[11:31] <draik> Dr_willis: Laptop is on dapper
[11:31] <cntb> \o join dvd torrent http://pangea001.upc.es/ubuntu-dvd-torrents/
[11:31] <draik> Dr_willis: What should I backup? What locations from "/" should I backup?
[11:32] <goodthing> lajene: most likely you need to enable universe repository
[11:32] <Dr_willis> draik,  depends on what you want to backup. Mondo/Mindi can backup the whole system to bootable  restore media.
[11:33] <draik> I can't get mondo/mindi in dapper repos
[11:33] <Dr_willis> !info mondo
[11:33] <ubotu> mondo: powerful disaster recovery suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.08-2-2 (edgy), package size 391 kB, installed size 1128 kB
[11:33] <draik> I'm on the liveCD anyway
[11:33] <Dr_willis> not in dapper? ehh. hmm
[11:33] <Dr_willis> odd.
[11:33] <cntb> lajene: ?
[11:33] <fdoving> !info mondo dapper
[11:33] <ubotu> mondo: powerful disaster recovery suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.06-1 (dapper), package size 462 kB, installed size 1352 kB
[11:33] <lajene> cntb?:)
[11:33] <cntb> lajene try thus << sudo apt-cache search racing >>
[11:33] <lajene> goodthing: Let me just go find out how to enable universe repository:)
[11:34] <lajene> cntb: I will try that!
[11:34] <lajene> what does sudo mean?
[11:34] <Dr_willis> if you have a laptop and a desktop machine.  you could backup the hard drive partitions over ssh/samba/nfs/whatever to one large file i guess
[11:34] <cntb> gimme a break
[11:34] <goodthing> lajene: 'super user do' afaik
[11:34] <Kr4t05> !sudo
[11:34] <ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
[11:34] <draik> I have a lag of 100s?!?!
[11:34] <cntb> !sudo
[11:34] <lajene> cntb: Didnt work, still dont get any response  interminal
[11:35] <cntb> !repos | lajene
[11:35] <ubotu> lajene: The packages in Kubuntu are divided into various sections. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu
[11:36] <draik> Dr_willis: no can do with ssh
[11:37] <draik> fdoving: What should I backup from the hdd? What locations from "/" do I backup?
[11:37] <cntb> ubuntu change nick /nick new
[11:38] <fdoving> draik: /home/ and 'dpkg --get-selections' ?
[11:39] <skchang> hi! i want to use kaffeine + dvbt but it does not find any channels. it finds the dvbt stick, it has a signal. does anyone know that problem?
[11:39] <skchang> and the signal "locked" is green...
[11:39] <cntb> lajene: command Alt-F2 > kdesu /usr/bin/software-properties
[11:40] <draik> fdoving: If I'm on the liveCD, will that get me the packages installed on the hdd?
[11:40] <cntb> draik:  dont think so
[11:40] <draik> didn't think so
[11:41] <fdoving> draik: no, you'll need to chroot into the installed environment.
[11:41] <draik> fdoving: How do I do that?
[11:41] <lajene> Think i got the whole adept thing to work! thanks!
[11:41] <draik> sudo chroot /media/hda5  ?
[11:41] <fdoving> draik: yes.
[11:42] <coreymon77> guys
[11:42] <_Snatch_> what
[11:42] <draik> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': Permission denied
[11:42] <_Snatch_> ?
[11:42] <cntb> Cheers lajene
[11:42] <coreymon77> does this wireless network adapter require ndiswrapper
[11:42] <coreymon77> ?
[11:42] <coreymon77> http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=179211
[11:42] <cntb> lajene try thus << sudo apt-cache search racing >> OK now ?
[11:43] <draik> fdoving: I got this error
[11:43] <draik> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': Permission denied
[11:43] <lajene> cntb: Yes it works now:)
[11:43] <slow-motion> n8
[11:43] <_Snatch_> coreymon77: use the second option in the wireless assistant
[11:43] <fdoving> draik: is it mounted as noexec?
[11:43] <_Snatch_> it works for me fine
[11:43] <draik> fdoving: shouldn't be
[11:43] <fdoving> draik: how did you mount it?
[11:43] <_Snatch_> its the wlan0
[11:43] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: so it doesnt?
[11:44] <draik> system settings
[11:44] <coreymon77> wait a se
[11:44] <coreymon77> c
[11:44] <_Snatch_> i didnt need it
[11:45] <Tann> Hello?
[11:45] <coreymon77> guys
[11:45] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: continue on, talking to tann, its his card
[11:45] <lajene> apt is my new best friend:)
[11:46] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: explain to Tann how to get his card to work without ndiswrapper
[11:46] <_Snatch_> sorry
[11:46] <coreymon77> ???
[11:47] <_Snatch_> i just didnt have any problem using the wireless card
[11:47] <Tann> weird
[11:47] <fdoving> draik:
[11:47] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: its the same adapter
[11:47] <_Snatch_> i dunno wat to tell him
[11:47] <coreymon77> what you told me
[11:47] <draik> fdoving:
[11:47] <Tann> ok
[11:47] <_Snatch_> ok
[11:47] <coreymon77> the adapter is his, not mine
[11:47] <Tann> ok
[11:47] <fdoving> draik: sorry, hit enter too early. 'sudo mount -o remount,defaults /media/hda5' from the console.
[11:47] <_Snatch_> Tann: open the wireless assistant
[11:48] <Tann> ?
[11:48] <_Snatch_> in the menu
[11:48] <coreymon77> oh wait, crap
[11:48] <Tann> I have ubuntu
[11:48] <coreymon77> i think hes using ubuntu
[11:48] <coreymon77> deos it matter?
[11:48] <Tann> yes
[11:48] <Tann> ubuntu has 3 menues
[11:48] <_Snatch_> doesnt matter
[11:48] <_Snatch_> i thimk
[11:48] <Tann> it shouldn't
[11:49] <coreymon77> just look for a wireless assistant program in one of the 3 menus
[11:49] <Tann> it is just a different de
[11:49] <Tann> ok
[11:49] <Tann> none
[11:49] <_Snatch_> on wireless assistant
[11:49] <Tann> nope
[11:49] <_Snatch_> NONE???????
[11:49] <coreymon77> ???
[11:50] <coreymon77> wait a sec
[11:50] <_Snatch_> install it using synaptic or adept!
[11:51] <skchang> i got a problem. i put my dvbt stick on a usb 2.0 port but it is not connected with full speed? what is the problem here?!
[11:52] <coreymon77> Tann: its called gtkwifi for you
[11:52] <_Snatch_> excuse me Tann, Can anybody tell me how to get libdvdcss2
[11:52] <Tann> ok
[11:52] <_Snatch_> Can anybody tell me how to get libdvdcss2??
[11:52] <Dr_willis> !info dvdcss2
[11:52] <ubotu> Package dvdcss2 does not exist in any distro I know
[11:53] <Dr_willis> the bot can.. and the faq/wikis can
[11:53] <Dr_willis> !dvd
[11:53] <ubotu> For playing DVD, see http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html - "libdvdcss" can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages
[11:54] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: maybe we should be doing this in the ubuntu channel
[11:54] <cntb> where in kUbuntu can I tune current color depth ?
[11:55] <coreymon77> _Snatch_: should we ask in the ubuntu channel?
[11:55] <_Snatch_> yup
[11:55] <_Snatch_> i agree
[11:55] <_Snatch_> i just entered
[11:56] <coreymon77> Tann: go to #ubuntu
[11:56] <Tann> I am there
[11:57] <nabla> I think you can get it from the videolan website, thats where I got it.
[11:58] <skchang> how can i disable ohci-hcd? i only need ehci-hcd...
[11:58] <draik> fdoving: Sorry, still won't do it
[11:58] <draik> fdoving: same error...
[11:58] <draik> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': Permission denied
[12:00] <fdoving> draik: then i  don't know. I need to go to bed, work early. nite and good luck.
[12:00] <draik> g'night. thanks again fdoving
[12:00] <crimsun> draik, where is the chroot located?
[12:04] <crimsun> draik, as in, which device? Is it on an external usb device?
[12:04] <draik> crimsun: sorry, I was away.
[12:05] <draik> crimsun: Its internal hdd... hda5
[12:05] <draik> crimsun: I'm on the liveCD
[12:06] <crimsun> draik, check the mount options for that partition (make sure noexec is not present)
[12:06] <draik> I'm actually about to nuke the entire hdd
[12:07] <draik> crimsun: I'm going to nuke all partitions and just have 2 partitions... Kubuntu and Swap
[12:09] <cntb> where in kUbuntu can I tune current color depth ?
[12:09] <cntb> where in kUbuntu can I tune current color depth ? pls important
[12:09] <bobleny> Hey, how do I make the forward and back buttons on my mouse work?
[12:10] <njee> cntb: I've always edited a text file to change the colour depth
[12:11] <njee> type "sudo kwrite /etc/X11/xorg.conf" at a terminal
[12:11] <njee> inside that file search for a value called "defaultdepth"
[12:12] <njee> mine is set to 24, you can change it to 16, 8
[12:12] <njee> save that file and then press CTRL, ALT, Backspace to restart X
[12:13] <njee> bobleny: not sure, I haven't gotten mine to work either


[09:03] <Claudinux> hi jibel , could you tell me when (and if) the lubuntu iso image will be  added to the tracker?


[07:56] <anant> I got this error after installing ubuntu 16.04 along side of windows 8.1 on my lenovo laptop
[07:56] <anant> how can I resolve this


[12:08] <Kinnison> elmo: 76G archive
[12:08] <kiko> Kinnison, with new gina run or not?
[12:09] <Kinnison> kiko: that's direct from staging as of now
[12:09] <elmo> Kinnison: that sounds small?
[12:09] <kiko> Kinnison, so no new gina run :-(
[12:09] <Kinnison> elmo: w/h/b i386/amd64/ppc
[12:09] <Kinnison> elmo: +source
[12:10] <elmo> Kinnison: hum, ok
[12:10] <Kinnison> kiko: Erm, dunno, I thought you and stub were in charge of that
[12:25] <kiko> Kinnison, stub refused to do it because he thought your packages were precious, argh
[12:29] <lifeless> welcome to the house of fun.
[12:29] <Kinnison> kiko: my packages?
[12:30] <kiko> Kinnison, in the database. fun indeed.
[12:30] <kiko> never mind.
[12:30] <kiko> we'll just need to redo the run tomorrow :-*
[12:31] <Kinnison> the majority of the pain is getting the files on disk
[12:31] <Kinnison> changing the packaging metadata isn't too bad
[12:32] <lifeless> mdz, can yo uvisit, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev and see what it says about 'Your involvement' - after logging in
[12:33] <lifeless> Kinnison: are we scheduling or something ?
[12:34] <kiko> Kinnison, but gina takes a long time to run!
[12:34] <Kinnison> lifeless: I'm not
[12:34] <Kinnison> kiko: I agree
[12:35] <Kinnison> kiko: but since I'm not at all sure what you're on about in terms of calling packaging data precious, I'm not sure what I'm meant to do and when/how
[12:37] <kiko> nuking SPR and BPR and the publishing tables
[12:37] <kiko> but..
[12:40] <lifeless> kiko: ah, are *we* shceduling or something ?
[12:46] <kiko> lifeless, nah, we're relaxing. steve was supposed to add room names, but..
[12:52] <Kinnison> it should chew up one of my slack periods
[05:07] <kiko> ahoy there
[05:07] <kiko> stub, dude!
[05:07] <kiko> Kinnison?
[05:44] <stub> kiko: yo
[06:13] <Mez|Away> hey stub
[06:13] <Mez|Away> hows the card game going?
[06:13] <stub> eh?
[06:15] <Mez|Away> stub: apologies.... i thought kiko was asking you if you were Kinnison
[06:33] <Mez|Away> LP down?
[06:33] <lifeless> no
[06:54] <Belutz> is uploading .po file in rosetta is not working at the moment?
[09:29] <jordi> Belutz: it should, why do you ask?
[10:16] <zyga_desktop> carlos, ping
[10:28] <zyga_desktop> carlos, join #ubuntu-desktop once you are around please, I've made some progress with gettext support for desktop files and I'd like to discuss this with you
[10:28] <jordi> zyga_desktop: for langpacks?!
[10:28] <jordi> zyga_desktop: that's awesome dude
[10:28] <zyga_desktop> jordi, yes
[10:29] <zyga_desktop> jordi, it works today
[10:29] <jordi> zyga_desktop: how do you do it, in summary?
[10:29] <zyga_desktop> jordi, I've patched pyxdg and libgnome-desktop, both patches are in malone
[10:29] <zyga_desktop> jordi, I use, if possible an extra key X-Gettext-Domain to lookup all localized strings
[10:30] <zyga_desktop> this method takes priority over legacy key[$LOCALE] =value data
[10:30] <zyga_desktop> I yet need to patch a volume of desktop files to notice the performance problems that many have talked about
[10:30] <zyga_desktop> anyway I plan to patch gettext to support a proxy for all the .mo files in a lightweight database of some sort if this becomes an issue
[10:31] <jordi> zyga_desktop: having gnome get those strings from .mo files could be the answer. Do you know why they chose to have them in the .desktop?
[10:32] <zyga_desktop> jordi, performance
[10:32] <jordi> nod
[10:32] <zyga_desktop> jordi, it's easier to read one file instead of reading lots of .mo files
[10:32] <zyga_desktop> but that point is really moot IMHO
[10:32] <zyga_desktop> it's better to have a useful design (the one with .mo files) that less efficient now than have a crappy design that is efficient
[10:32] <zyga_desktop> and besides, proxying will solve any performance issues
[10:33] <jordi> having all in one file defeats many advantages in the mo format
[10:33] <zyga_desktop> true
[10:33] <zyga_desktop> jordi, anyway that's the first step
[10:33] <zyga_desktop> jordi, it works today and I'd like to get some feedback on this :-)
[10:33] <zyga_desktop> too bad that UBZ is going on now :)
[10:34] <jordi> yeah. I'm leavign tomorrow for .ca
[10:34] <zyga_desktop> mvo could have some ideas about gnome-app-install that is using a horde of desktop files
[11:01] <zyga_desktop> so now we basically need a gettext proxy to solve the performance issue
[11:21] <LarstiQ> zyga_desktop: afaik, reading lots of files is a major performance killer for gnome
[11:22] <zyga_desktop> LarstiQ, that depends on how it's done, it *may* be a performance killer, it does not have to
[11:24] <zyga_desktop> OTOH: how to remove / upgrade an attachment in malone?
[11:35] <cprov> morning guys
[11:35] <BjornT> zyga_desktop: at the moment you can't. feel free to file a bug about it, i'll try to get around implementing it some day.
[12:14] <matsubara> good morning!
[01:23] <stub> elmo, Znarl: ping
[01:31] <Znarl> stub : Pong
[01:31] <stub> Znarl: Can you tell what is thrashing Asuka's disk?
[01:32] <Znarl> Hold on, I'll take a look.
[01:32] <stub> I've been doing a DB restore which normally takes about 1.5 hours for the last three hours now
[01:35] <stub> It might just be the restore (maybe the production database has changed more than I expected since the last restore I timed, maybe two weeks ago).
[01:35] <stub> Which is the stuff running as the postgres user
[01:36] <stub> Or maybe all this new disk is real slloooowww
[01:39] <Znarl> No, no, the disks are the normal super fast outstanding disks.
[01:39] <fabbione> hey Znarl
[01:40] <Znarl> Hello fabbione
[01:41] <fabbione> Znarl: it was a pleasure to meet you in London.. too bad there was not time to talk
[01:43] <Znarl> fabbione : Thank you, you too.
[01:44] <Znarl> Hopefully next time you're in London we can have more time to chat.
[01:49] <fabbione> Znarl: you can bet on it
[01:58] <Znarl> stub : It could be the hardware RAID kicked out a disk and it's rebuilding.  I'll find out in a few hours when I can eyeball the machine.
[02:16] <stub> Znarl: No probs.
[02:17] <stub> My restore has finished now... cool.
[02:18] <stub> Hmm.... back to normal load. Must have been me. Might need to get the darling more RAM or something.
[02:18] <Mez> I'm getting expired stuff on specs
[02:32] <SteveA> what were you restoring stub?
[02:54] <stub> SteveA: Staging. Just kicked off a fresh gina run for kiko
[03:23] <mdz> lifeless:  You are the owner of this team, but not currently an active member.
[03:24] <lifeless> mdz: interesting.
[03:24] <lifeless> mdz: you should be by inclusion though right ?
[03:25] <lifeless> salgado: ping
[03:25] <salgado> lifeless, pong
[03:25] <lifeless> salgado: team mmbership - if someone is in a team that is in a team, should they be listed as a member of the latter team ?
[03:27] <lifeless> salgado: jbailey and I were looking at some permission errors yesterday, and this 'not in the team' thing seems a likely candidate
[03:28] <salgado> lifeless, right now you're not listed as a member on the team's page, because that page lists only direct members of a team
[03:28] <lifeless> salgado: ok.
[03:28] <salgado> but maybe it's a good idea to list indirect members too. I'm not sure
[03:29] <salgado> lifeless, how can I reproduce the bug you mentioned?
[03:30] <lifeless> salgado: are you in montreal ?
[03:30] <salgado> lifeless, not yet. I'm leaving .br tomorrow night
[03:31] <lifeless> ok
[03:31] <salgado> today, in fact
[03:31] <lifeless> uhm, jbailey has a bug
[03:31] <spiv> lifeless: Btw, I've started implementing SupermirrorFilesystemHierarchy -- I expect I'll have the hard part, the SFTP changes, working during the flight.
[03:31] <lifeless> sweet
[03:32] <spiv> But now, I need to sleep so I can make that flight :)
[03:32] <lifeless> :)
[03:32] <lifeless> gnight
[03:34] <salgado> lifeless, the RocketFuelSetup page mentions a "bzr pull --clobber" command line. would the correct be "bzr pull --overwrite"?
[03:34] <salgado> I ask because there doesn't seem to be a --clobber option for pull
[03:35] <lifeless> yes, its changede. I'll fix
[03:36] <bradb> Hey, I want to get K-lined.
[03:50] <lifeless> stub ping
[03:51] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[03:51] <SteveA> lifeless:
[03:52] <lifeless> should breezy using devs be using posgreesql 8 or 7.4 ?
[03:52] <SteveA> either should work
[03:52] <SteveA> production is 7
[03:52] <SteveA> currently
[03:52] <lifeless> yes.
[03:52] <lifeless> what *should* we be telling them to use ?
[03:52] <lifeless> the dbsetup instructions are wrong, I need to correct them, and it requires a choice
[03:52] <SteveA> it is good to have a mix at this point
[03:53] <SteveA> if stu has imminent plans to upgrade
[03:53] <lifeless> apt-get install postgresql-plpython
[03:53] <SteveA> then we should all use 8
[03:53] <lifeless>  <- does not exist, have to do -7.4 or -8.0
[03:53] <SteveA> we need to ask stu when he arrives
[03:53] <bradb> My baz -> bzr conversion bombed out fairly early on with an exception. Should I file it as a bzr bug in malone, or send this error output somewhere else?
[03:53] <lifeless> ok, I'm not aware specific plans to upgrade.
[03:53] <lifeless> bradb: give it to me
[03:53] <bradb> ok
[03:55] <bradb> lifeless: sent
[04:01] <bradb> poor, poor chinstrap
[04:01] <jamesh> SteveA: I noticed that the pg_dump output of postgres 8.0 is a bit different to the equivalent dump from 7.4, which affects generation of sample data
[04:02] <jamesh> SteveA: which means having a mix of the two versions will lead to merge conflicts when people are updating the sample data
[04:02] <SteveA> can you put in a pastebin an example of the difference?
[04:03] <bradb> "bzr branch" and "bzr merge" would seem to be running in ultra-slow motion due to the load on chinstrap.
[04:03] <jamesh> I don't recall the exact differences (I think they were a combination of whitespace and ordering of some output)
[04:03] <jamesh> but it meant that regenerating the sample data touched almost every line of the file
[04:03] <lifeless> bradb: are you running them on chinstrap ?
[04:03] <bradb> lifeless: yep
[04:03] <BjornT> ah, true, i noticed that as well. SteveA, it seems that with 8.0, all tables are ordered alphabetical, so it's quite a huge diff. i got more than 1Mb diff for a simple sample data addition
[04:03] <lifeless> hmm
[04:03] <jamesh> so I got big conflicts when someone else updated the file
[04:03] <bradb> lifeless: I've been waiting on "bzr branch" for several minutes already.
[04:04] <bradb> lifeless: And seen no progress output or output of any kind thus far.
[04:04] <lifeless> bradb: I need the command line you used too
[04:04] <bradb> bradb@chinstrap /home/warthogs/archives/bradb/launchpad $ bzr branch /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel malone-talks-back-contd
[04:04] <bradb>
[04:04] <lifeless> for the conversion
[04:04] <bradb> ah, ok
[04:05] <bradb> how do I scroll back through the scroll buffer in screen?
[04:06] <lifeless> ctrl-a [, then pgup
[04:07] <bradb> pgup scrolls my terminal's scroll bar
[04:07] <lifeless> haha
[04:07] <lifeless> try arrows then
[04:07] <bradb> wait, found the magic incantation, i think
[04:08] <bradb> bradb@chinstrap /home/warthogs/archives/bradb $ /home/warthogs/source/bzr.integration/bzr baz-import<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>../rocketfuel
[04:12] <lifeless> can you mail me your ~/bzr.log please
[04:15] <bradb> lifeless: sent.
[04:16] <lifeless> danke
[04:17] <LarstiQ> bradb: for scrolling in screen after ctrl-a-[, ctrl-f and ctrl-b are good (as well as hjkl)
[04:18] <eruin> meh, I wish there were tighter bonds between gnome-i18n and rosetta translators
[04:18] <eruin> I'm slowly losing track of all the i18n mailing lists, etc I'm following :P
[04:20] <mpool> hi
[04:20] <mpool> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+spec/nathansprangers is not a bzr spec
[04:20] <mpool> can i move it?
[04:20] <mpool> it should be an ubuntu spec
[04:21] <lifeless> hahah
[04:21] <lifeless> ..not yet AFAIK
[04:23] <lifeless> bug 3727
[04:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3727: Cannot move specs added to a product to a different product or to a distro. Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3727
[04:30] <mpool> is there a way to mark a spec as closed/invalid?
[04:30] <lifeless> no
[04:30] <lifeless> erm, not really.
[04:30] <lifeless> you can say 'obsolete'
[04:31] <mpool> hm
[04:31] <mpool> it looks like someone just changed it
[04:32] <lifeless> yes, I corrected it. But there is no ui, so I filed a bug.
[04:34] <jamesh> mpool: it can be declined for ubz though
[04:37] <lifeless> jamesh: that leaves noise in the product though
[04:37] <lifeless> which is, I think, mpools concern
[04:39] <kiko> bradb, yo?
[04:39] <bradb> yo
[04:40] <kiko> how's it going my man
[04:40] <bradb> not bad, not bad. how's the bike?
[04:40] <kiko> not bad!
[04:41] <kiko> my throat is not so great thouh
[04:41] <bradb> cool
[04:41] <bradb> oh
[04:41] <kiko> bradb, what time did the lappie arrive?
[04:41] <mpool> if it's really just a typo then there should be a way to delete it
[04:41] <mpool> i think
[04:41] <kiko> or was it supposed to?
[04:41] <bradb> kiko: they said they get deliveries between 11 and 3
[04:41] <kiko> okay, cool, thanks
[04:42] <mpool> bradb: where are you?
[04:42] <lifeless> bradb: where are you?
[04:42] <mpt> bradb, get your behind down here
[04:42] <bradb> heh
[04:42] <kiko> get your behind behind here
[04:43] <mpt> You're in high demand
[04:43] <bradb> ok, ok, ok, ok!
[04:43] <kiko> I OBEY
[04:43] <mpt> We're on floor S1
[04:43] <lifeless> bradb: as if
[04:43] <mpool> if i can spend 30h flying you can get the metro! :)
[04:43] <bradb> heh
[04:43] <bradb> right, i'm on my way
[04:43] <lifeless> bah 30, you lightweight!
[05:01] <kiko> hey brenden duderino
[05:01] <kiko> err
[05:01] <kiko> bradb disappeared ;)
[05:04] <highvoltage> hi guys. where can I check for existing bugs in launchpad?
[05:04] <kiko> highvoltage, what are they bugs on? ubuntu? launchpad?
[05:07] <thisfred> highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bugs ?
[05:09] <highvoltage> thanks thisfred, for some reason i mis-looked it.
[05:22] <highvoltage> i want to translate binutils, but my language isn't there. is there a way i can add it?
[05:25] <jamesh> highvoltage: what language is it?
[05:25] <kiko> highvoltage, talk to jordi!
[05:26] <mpool> is it a known bug that i get an error of unauthenticated user tried to post to a page that requires auth"
[05:26] <highvoltage> jamesh: Afrikaans
[05:27] <highvoltage> jordi: I want to translate binutils to Afrikaans, but Launchpad doesn't have it listed under binutils
[05:27] <salgado> mpool, yes, it is
[05:27] <jamesh> highvoltage: we have Afrikaans in the system
[05:27] <jamesh> highvoltage: have you selected Afrikaans as one of the languages you know?
[05:28] <highvoltage> jamesh: i think so. let me double-check...
[05:29] <jamesh> highvoltage: https://launchpad.net/rosetta/prefs <- that's the language selection page
[05:29] <jamesh> highvoltage: iirc, your selected languages are always listed when you look at a translation template in Launchpad
[05:29] <highvoltage> jamesh: yes, i have
[05:29] <jamesh> (even if they have no translations at that point)
[05:30] <highvoltage> jamesh: no, i lied. it's good now :)
[05:30] <highvoltage> jamesh: thanks
[05:30] <jamesh> no problem
[05:40] <jsgotangco> its lp getting timeout problems?
[05:41] <kiko> jsgotangco, yes, more or less continually. we need to work this out this week
[05:41] <jsgotangco> ah ok thanks kiko, hope montreal is doing good for the lp team =)
[05:42] <kiko> jsgotangco, it will do! lots of little specs to work on
[05:54] <highvoltage> how do i insert a <tab> in a web form?
[05:55] <Mez> ctrl tab or shift tab sometimes works
[05:55] <kiko> highvoltage, but mostly it doesn't
[05:55] <highvoltage> gnome seems to take that.
[05:56] <highvoltage> i'll just insert <tab>. perhaps the po maintainers can fix it
[05:56] <kiko> highvoltage, uhm
[05:56] <kiko> highvoltage, what are you doing?
[05:58] <mpool> highvoltage: paste it?
[05:59] <highvoltage> ok, i'll try that. perhaps an "insert tab" would be nice in rosetta.
[06:00] <kiko> highvoltage, read the legend. you're supposed to use [tab]
[06:00] <kiko> that's in the left-hand portlet area
[06:01] <highvoltage> kiko: ah, ok. sorry, launchpad is big, i forget to read all the stuff on the left and right hand side. thanks.
[06:02] <kiko> highvoltage, it's big and kinda confusingly cluttered. we're working on it.
[06:06] <highvoltage> kiko: great job, btw. i think it's wonderful how you guys make it fun to contibute.
[06:06] <highvoltage> thanks for all your help
[06:10] <lifeless> ddaa: the fix for code is trivial
[06:10] <lifeless> I'm just reweaving my branch
[06:11] <mpool> i'd like a mozilla plugin that turns the seleted text into a new bug, then puts the url of that new bug in the clipboard
[06:44] <Mez> hmm
[06:44] <Mez> can someone approve an email address for me
[06:45] <Mez> it seems the ubuntu servers dont like sending email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>emails
[06:45] <kiko> Mez, approve?
[06:45] <Mez> and I want to be able to use<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with sourcecontrol
[06:45] <SteveA> hmm
[06:45] <Mez> kiko: confirm sorry
[06:45] <SteveA> could be -- the mail rules behind the scenes are very complex right now
[06:45] <SteveA> i'll have a word with elmo
[06:47] <jsgotangco> that's strange i just requested a po file and it sent confirmation to my ubuntu.com email
[07:08] <SteveA> Mez: I just checked, and the server launchpad is running on can send email to @ubuntu.com addresses
[07:09] <SteveA> can you tell me a bit more about what happens?
[07:10] <Mez> I dont recieve any email
[07:10] <SteveA> do you receive email from launchpad sent to another address?
[07:10] <Mez> yes
[07:10] <Mez> just not the ubuntu.com one
[07:11] <SteveA> can i try sending you an email?
[07:11] <Mez> well, I've tried to add it to my emails but it doenst accept
[07:13] <SteveA> Mez: i just sent you an email.  let me know if you receive it soon.
[07:28] <rmarronnier> hi ! Im doing some translations for ubuntu packages, and i want to know if those translations can be used by other distributions ?
[07:29] <kiko> they can!
[07:29] <kiko> they can be used via upstream -- upstream downloads packages and includes them
[07:30] <kiko> other distros can also download translations
[07:30] <rmarronnier> cool !
[07:30] <jamesh> rmarronnier: the details are here: https://launchpad.net/legal
[07:30] <rmarronnier> thanks jamesh
[07:30] <jamesh> rmarronnier: i.e. translations done in Rosetta are available under the same terms as the software they are for
[07:32] <rmarronnier> But in reality do mandriva, xandros, debian etc. use those translations or work on their own ?
[07:33] <jamesh> rmarronnier: I don't know.  Note that some upstream projects use rosetta for translations, so those distros benefit from Rosetta indirectly when they get new upstream versions of those packages
[07:34] <sabdfl> stub around?
[07:36] <kiko> he's on a plane I think sabdfl
[07:47] <rmarronnier> ok thanks
[08:21] <mdke> is there an official answer of where the name Rosetta comes from?
[08:21] <mdke> if not, how about adding one to RosettaFAQ?
[08:24] <matsubara> Maybe because of the rosetta stone, but I'm guessing
[08:25] <mdke> well I think it is named after the space probe rosetta
[08:25] <mdke> which in turn is named after the stone
[08:26] <mdke> i'm gonna add that to the FAQ anyhows and see if anyone corrects me
[08:26] <TylerM> which in turn was named after a pre-historic arab sitcom "Rosetta and Rocko"
[08:27] <mdke> nah it was named after the place it was found
[08:29] <occy> Does anyone think we could get it where ogg vorbis video can work out of the box with 6.04 ?
[08:29] <mdke> wrong channel
[08:29] <occy> heh
[08:39] <medgno> who should I talk to if I seem to have a messed up launchpad account?
[08:39] <kiko> me
[08:39] <kiko> what's up medgno
[08:40] <medgno> I can't sign up for a new account with my email address, and trying to do a "forgotten password" thing for my email doesn't work either
[08:42] <Belutz> hi all
[08:42] <Belutz> is it normal that the process after uploading .po file would took a long time?
[08:43] <Belutz> this is the message in the email "On 2005-10-31 05:51+0000 (4 hours 10 minutes ago), you uploaded 941
[08:43] <Belutz> Indonesian (id) translations" it tooks 4 hours?
[08:44] <kiko> Belutz, the script is run asynchronously
[08:44] <kiko> so it's possible
[08:44] <Belutz> ah i see
[08:44] <Belutz> thanks kiko :)
[08:45] <kiko> enjoy!
[08:46] <medgno> kiko: any suggestions on what to do with my email addy?
[08:46] <kiko> medgno, when you say "I can't" and "doesn't work" I can only scratch my head. give me more infomration.
[08:46] <kiko> and information too.
[08:47] <medgno> email address is medgno at medievalgnome.org. I am unable to get any information from launchpad about my account. Trying to make a new account says one already exists. Doing the 'lost password' thing says that it sent an email, but I have never gotten one.
[08:53] <jordi> damn, I missed highvoltage
[09:04] <jamesh> jordi: we fixed his problem
[09:06] <zyga> the amazing thing about FOSS is that no matter where you are, what time it is, there is someone, somewhere, always, working on improving something... every single moment :-)
[09:16] <LarstiQ> zyga: that's not particular to FOSS I'm afraid
[09:18] <zyga> LarstiQ: seesh! you ruined my mood ;-)
[09:18] <LarstiQ> zyga: aww, I should have followed my heart
[09:31] <zyga> morning log lovers
[09:32] <kiko> and goat lovers
[09:32] <zyga> I was trying to request bugfix in distro
[09:32] <zyga> and launchpad died
[09:32] <kiko> it does that sometimes
[09:32] <kiko> was it already requested?
[09:32] <zyga> no
[09:32] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/3743
[09:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3743: gvim.desktop should not be packaged with vim Fix req. for: vim (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3743
[09:32] <zyga> it was a fresh bug


[17:34] <patrickdickey> I'm here, but will be afk for about 20 minutes or so.
[17:58] <patrickdickey> Hi Paddy.
[17:58] <PaddyLandau> Hello godbyk and patrickdickey
[17:59] <patrickdickey> hi godbyk
[17:59] <godbyk> Greetings
[17:59] <PaddyLandau> Shall we start?
[17:59] <patrickdickey> Sure thing.
[17:59] <godbyk> Sure.
[17:59] <godbyk> #startmeeting
[17:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jul 28 17:59:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:00] <godbyk> There we go. Now we're all official. :-)
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> LOL, excellent!
[18:00] <patrickdickey> :)
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> First thing: We are here to discuss the technical possibilities for the website.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> We've had some excellent discussions via email.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> For the record, shall we summarise what we've done so far?
[18:00] <godbyk> That sounds like a good idea.
[18:00] <patrickdickey> Yep.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> OK...
[18:01] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey and I have looked at WordPress for the simple reason that it is such a simple system, because godbyk has found it increasingly difficult given the current non-CMS website.
[18:01] <PaddyLandau> The website needs to be easy to maintain, and easy to keep translations.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> So far, we have found a promising system and it works well -- I have set up a test website -- but it does have a couple of problems.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> The biggest one is an email we've just had that started to discuss comparing old and new versions for the translators.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> What have I left out?
[18:03] <godbyk> I think that sums things up fairly well, PaddyLandau.
[18:03] <godbyk> The biggest difficulty with our site is handling the translations, I think.
[18:03] <patrickdickey> That pretty much sums it up I think. I am/was looking at seeing how the current test site will look in WordPress, in case we decide that we like the look of it. Or parts of it.
[18:04] <godbyk> Being able to publish new manuals to the site is another issue.
[18:04] <PaddyLandau> Publishing manuals to the website would be simple. (1) Upload the new manuals to a pre-agreed folder. (2) Update the website to point to the new manuals.
[18:04] <patrickdickey> How does that happen in the current site? I mean do they download it from the site or does it get downloaded from somewhere else?
[18:05] <godbyk> The way it works with the current site:
[18:05] <godbyk> 1. I generate the final PDFs and upload them to our site.
[18:05] <godbyk> 2. I hand-edit the PHP scripts (live, 'cause I'm crazy like that) to:
[18:05] <godbyk> a. Bump  the version number.
[18:06] <godbyk> b. Add the new manual to the list of dropdown menus on the downloads page.
[18:06] <godbyk> c. Add a link to the Lulu print edition.
[18:06] <godbyk> (Uploading the PDF to Lulu and creating a printed edition is another process entirely.)
[18:06] <godbyk> d. Hope I didn't break anything along the way.
[18:06] <PaddyLandau> There is a link from the website to Lulu, isn't there?
[18:07] <godbyk> It used to be much more difficult than it is now. I've rewritten a lot of the PHP to simplify my life.
[18:07] <godbyk> There is. You can click on a 'buy this book' badge on the front page to link to the lulu site.
[18:08] <PaddyLandau> WordPress does have a nice advantage about breaking things: It lets you preview your changes before you commit, so you can test it to your heart's content before you press "Update".
[18:08] <patrickdickey> If someone clicks that link, does it take them to the manual in their language? And is that handled on our site or on lulu?
[18:08] <godbyk> I think WordPress will work well for the content of the site: instructions for installing LaTeX, using bzr, etc.; info about what we do; and so on.
[18:09] <godbyk> I suspect that we'll need to write a separate system to manage the publishing of the manuals.
[18:09] <godbyk> But we could have the publishing system tie into the WordPress database for usernames/passwords/permissions to help keep things in sync.
[18:09] <godbyk> patrickdickey: That's handled by our site.
[18:10] <godbyk> When you go to http://ubuntu-manual.org/buy/[manual edition]/[language code], it looks up the proper Lulu URL to forward you to.
[18:10] <patrickdickey> So, we need to figure out how to get the language code from either the browser or Q-Translate, and add that to the download link?
[18:10] <godbyk> This bit of redirection allows us to delete a Lulu book and republish it if there's some major error.
[18:11] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Right. We'll need to get the language code from somewhere.
[18:11] <PaddyLandau> godbyk, I suspect that all we would need is a little bit of PHP code in the WordPress post, or attached to the WordPress post.
[18:11] <patrickdickey> My understanding is that Q-Translate gets it from the browser (or from the language switcher). So it should be stored somewhere in the plugin.
[18:11] <PaddyLandau> Indeed.
[18:12] <PaddyLandau> We can test this out fairly easily, and I am sure it won't be hard.
[18:12] <godbyk> I don't expect it'd be difficult to get the language code somehow.
[18:13] <godbyk> On the WordPress side of things..
[18:13] <PaddyLandau> It's on the URL, so we can easily use that. Preferably, use a drop-down menu that allows choosing any of the translated manuals.
[18:13] <godbyk> Let's say I have a page similar to http://ubuntu-manual.org/about
[18:13] <godbyk> That page hasn't been edited in eons, but it'll serve as an example here.
[18:13] <godbyk> If I modify the text of the English edition of that page, what happens?
[18:13] <godbyk> How do the translators know that they need to update their translation for that page?
[18:14] <godbyk> And what is the experience like for translators?
[18:14] <PaddyLandau> OK, let's answer your questions one by one.
[18:14] <patrickdickey> I think it depends on which option we select in Q-Translate. It automatically translates the page, either through the mo files or via a human translator if we have an account.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> If you modify the text of the English edition using WordPress and not Poedit (we'll come to that later), you simply see the new version. The translated version is *not* modified.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> There is no automatic way to alert the translators.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> However, if we use Poedit and .mo files, I need to find out much more about the process before I can answer that.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> I know nothing whatsoever about them.
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> The experience for the translators: Using the built-in WordPress system, they would see their posts just as you and I do.
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> Would it help to have a look right now at the test system?
[18:16] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Sure!
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> OK...
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> First, go to http://u.yddal.info/ -- that is the test website.
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> Only the "Home" link has been translated, into four languages (including a pretend language that I set up).
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> You can see (say) the Chinese link with http://u.yddal.info/zh
[18:18] <PaddyLandau> You will see a couple of places that have not been translated, and they need to be ironed out.
[18:18] <PaddyLandau> Now for the Administration side, so that you can see how it works (patrickdickey, I think you already know how).
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> First, go to http://u.yddal.info/wp-admin
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> You will receive the first of two security notices.
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey, I forgot to send you your details.
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> I'll Skype them to you right now.
[18:20] <patrickdickey> Thanks. I'm also posting our questions to the Q-Translate forum, so if I seem like I've disappeared, that's why.
[18:20] <PaddyLandau> np
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> Then you get to the second security login, which you should have received via email. If you don't have it, let me know and I'll get it out to you again.
[18:21] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Okay, I've logged in to the wp-admin. I'm at the wp control panel now.
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> There are two steps to prevent hacking.
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> Right, godbyk. Click on Posts on the far left side.
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> Now, hover your mouse over Testing Languages (that is a post I created)...
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> ... and click Edit underneath it.
[18:22] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Got it.
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> The titles come one after another; not terribly convenient, but it's what we have.
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> Underneath all of that you have the post. Above the post are tabs for English, Français, Nederlands, etc.
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> Just click on them to see the other languages.
[18:23] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Can the site title and tagline be translated, too?
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> And amend as you see fit!
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> On the right you should see "Preview Changes", which lets you preview the page without committing; and there's the Update button, which does commit.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey and I were discussing the title and tagline.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> We have a workaround for that.
[18:25] <godbyk> 'kay.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> Most of it is dead easy, most of the rest is easy, but we'll need a few bits of harder set-up. What I want to avoid is customisations that would break when WordPress is updated.
[18:26] <PaddyLandau> Major updates come (I believe) annually, with security updates every month or so.
[18:26] <godbyk> Right.
[18:27] <PaddyLandau> Feel free to play. The entire site has been backed up, so the worst that can happen is I spend ten minutes restoring it.
[18:27] <godbyk> Is there a way to export these posts from WordPress to a .pot file?
[18:27] <godbyk> The .pot files are what we upload to Launchpad so translators can translate things there.
[18:27] <godbyk> Then we download .po files which contain the translated text.
[18:27] <godbyk> (The .pot file is basically just a file with a list of strings that need to be translated.
[18:28] <godbyk> The .po file is the same .pot file but also includes the translations.)
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> I see. No, I don't think you can export them, but you can copy-and-paste. According to the documentation, however, qTranslate can import .mo files. That is one area where I am still trying to find out how it is done.
[18:28] <godbyk> Okay, Launchpad can also give us .mo files instead of .po files.
[18:28] <godbyk> I think the .mo files are the same as the .po files but are a binary format that is more efficient.
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> Is it important to retain the Launchpad method? For example, for records and to alert the translators?
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> If it is, I'll have to check out the .mo files.
[18:29] <patrickdickey> Are the po files simply translations, or do they also have the style guides included?
[18:29] <godbyk> (I'm just guessing about the format of the .mo files. I know I can't easily read them in a text editor like I can .po files.)
[18:29] <patrickdickey> I think the .mo files are just machine compiled versions of the .po files.
[18:29] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Well, the benefits of using Launchpad are: translators already hang out there. So they'll be alerted when something is updated and needs to be translated.
[18:29] <godbyk> They're already familiar with how the Launchpad translation system works.
[18:30] <godbyk> They get karma points (not sure if this is a big deal or not).
[18:30] <PaddyLandau> OK. patrickdickey asked if the po files contain style guides?
[18:30] <godbyk> They can see if the site is fully translated or still needs work.
[18:30] <godbyk> And so on.
[18:30] <PaddyLandau> OK, so we want to retain the Launchpad with the .mo files.
[18:30] <godbyk> I suspect that we'll have a lot fewer translators who want to log in to our site directly to translate the text.
[18:31] <godbyk> patrickdickey: I'm not sure what you mean by style guides. The .po files contain the original (untranslated) text and the translated text.
[18:31] <PaddyLandau> But no formatting?
[18:31] <patrickdickey> Question. Are we talking about just the actual website here, or the manual? Because the manual should stay on launchpad (as far as making and translating it).
[18:31] <PaddyLandau> The website. Not the manual.
[18:31] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: For the manual, for instance, the translated strings contain LaTeX code just as the English strings do.
[18:32] <PaddyLandau> Ah. I do not believe that WordPress uses LaTeX.
[18:32] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: So we'd have to export the HTML formatting and they'd maintain that formatting during the translation process.
[18:32] <godbyk> patrickdickey: This is just about the website.
[18:32] <PaddyLandau> OK, in the post in the Admin side, you'll see two tabs: Visual and HTML. You can swap between them. So it's OK to use HTML for formatting.
[18:32] <godbyk> I can show you how the manual translation works in Launchpad and that might help.
[18:33] <PaddyLandau> OK
[18:33] <godbyk> The same system would work for the website (assuming we can get the info out of WordPress and into Launchpad.)
[18:33] <godbyk> If you go here <https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/>, you'll see the front page of the manual's translation site.
[18:33] <godbyk> You can click on the column headings to sort them.
[18:33] <godbyk> So clicking on the Status heading a couple times will sort by translation progress.
[18:34] <godbyk> You can see that the Greek translation is coming along quite well as is the Russian translation.
[18:34] <PaddyLandau> Yes, I can see now that Launchpad is most useful.
[18:34] <godbyk> If we click on English (UK), it'll take us to here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise/+pots/ubuntu-manual/en_GB/+translate
[18:34] <godbyk> This is where the translators do their work.
[18:35] <godbyk> They see the original English text, and they write their translation in the big text box.
[18:35] <PaddyLandau> Can we see the Launchpad site for the website translations?
[18:36] <godbyk> Sure
[18:36] <godbyk> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/
[18:36] <PaddyLandau> Yes, I see the HTML there.
[18:36] <PaddyLandau> It looks good.
[18:37] <godbyk> Yep.
[18:37] <godbyk> The vast majority of the formatting is handled outside the translated strings.
[18:37] <godbyk> But some of the text will contain formatting such as <i>, <b>, etc.
[18:37] <godbyk> (Things we can separate without breaking the sentence into lots of little fragments.)
[18:38] <godbyk> And the translators are generally pretty good at handling that sort of thing.
[18:38] <godbyk> If the qTranslate system doesn't allow us to translate the site title and tagline, we can probably handle that from the template side.
[18:38] <godbyk> So we can use the same sort of translation setup we have with the current website.
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> BTW, <i> and <b> are supposed to be replaced with <em> and <strong>.
[18:39] <patrickdickey> So, what we need to find out is if we create the .mo files for each page on the site, will Q-Translate import them in, and generate the pages for us?
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> Yes...
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> All right. We have determined that Launchpad is important to keep.
[18:39] <godbyk> We'd extract those strings into a .pot file, upload it to launchpad, download the translations, and php will look up the translations each time it displays that page.
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> Would WordPress (as you have seen it so far) be acceptable if we can import .mo files into WordPress, and replace them when they change?
[18:39] <godbyk> We also need to see if qTranslate will generate a .pot file for Launchpad.
[18:40] <patrickdickey> Of all the pages on the site, about the only one that would change is the instructions right?
[18:40] <godbyk> Otherwise we might have to write some code to do that ourselves.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Caveat: At this stage, it seems as though we would have to copy-and-paste the English (US) into the WordPress site to start off with; and then, when making changes, copy-and-paste the English (US) from WordPress into Launchpad.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> I don't know that we can export to .pot, but I'll find out.
[18:40] <godbyk> We update the instructions fairly regularly (though I'm trying to move a lot of that to the style guide).
[18:40] <patrickdickey> Actually, I don't think we need to worry about that. If we can import the .mo files from launchpad, then we just do it all there and upload it to the site.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Unfortunately, I suspect now.
[18:40] <godbyk> We should start updating the contributors page, too.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Unfortunately, I suspect not.
[18:40] <godbyk> The jobs page gets updated every once in a while.
[18:41] <godbyk> Some of the other pages might start getting tweaked more frequently if the system were easier to use. :)
[18:41] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Say I make a change to the jobs page. Would it be possible to simply copy-and-paste those changes to Launchpad? Or does it have to have a .pot file to import?
[18:41] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: If they can't export to .pot, how do they get the .mo files? I mean, where do they assume the .mo files are coming from?
[18:42] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: It has to be a .pot file.
[18:42] <PaddyLandau> How do you currently create a .pot file for the website? Suppose you create a new page, "Ubuntu Widgets" or something?
[18:42] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I have no idea. I've never done it. So the translations are sadly out of date for our current site.
[18:43] <PaddyLandau> Right. That's the first point of attack, then.
[18:43] <PaddyLandau> I have two suggestions...
[18:43] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I think that Adnane (irc: daker) ran a script that generated the .pot file, but I haven't taken the time to dig around for it yet.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> Here are the questions that I'm going to ask on the Q-Translate forum. Let me know if they need to be changed, or if I need any more.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 1.  Is the language code stored somewhere (whichever language Q-Translate is using at the time)? We use this code to determine the language the download is offered in.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 2.  When a page is edited, does it get automatically retranslated, or do we have to do anything to have that happen?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 3.  As part of our project, we have translators available. Are they able to edit the translated pages at all, or are the pages locked with whatever translation Q-Translate gives us?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 3a. If the translators are able to edit the pages, how would they do that?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 4.  Are we able to translate the pages offsite, and import them via .mo files into the site?
[18:44] <godbyk> i don't think that (2) applies since we'll be having human translators doing the work.
[18:44] <PaddyLandau> 2. I do not think that qTranslate automatically translates anything on the user side. The automatic translations are for the Administration side. Notice the language tabs on the left side in the Administration side.
[18:44] <PaddyLandau> 3. Not applicable.
[18:45] <godbyk> For (4), Launchpad can provide both .mo files and .po files.  It requires that we import from a .pot file.
[18:45] <PaddyLandau> 3a. As I explained earlier. Did you go into the Administration side at all, patrickdickey?
[18:45] <patrickdickey> Not yet. I'm just about to do that right now.
[18:46] <PaddyLandau> 4. The answer is yes, it takes .mo files. I think what needs asking is *how* to import .mo files into the system. I need to find that out. I have sample .mo files that Kevin got to me.
[18:46] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: When I click on those languages in the admin panel, it doesn't appear to have any effect.
[18:46] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: That is strange. It changes the language in the administration section. It takes a couple of seconds.
[18:47] <PaddyLandau> Are you still on the Posts section? It is working for m.e
[18:47] <PaddyLandau> Are you still on the Posts section? It is working for me.
[18:47] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Ah, I see it now. It just wasn't translated the stuff I happened to be looking at.
[18:48] <PaddyLandau> Oh... I see some languages have not been fully translated! That's why!
[18:48] <PaddyLandau> If you click Chinese, you'll see big changes.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> I was going to provide some suggestions regarding the .pot files.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> I have two suggestions.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> (1) Find out how to create a .pot file from some text. If this is easy, there may well be a plug-in. I will search tomorrow.
[18:51] <PaddyLandau> (2) Change the set-up for Launchpad so that instead of providing the text, it merely provides a flag for each page: "translated" or "not translated". Let translators sign into WordPress to make the changes. (I do not think that this suggestion would be suitable, though.)
[18:51] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Yeah, I think (1) would be best.
[18:51] <PaddyLandau> Me too.#
[18:51] <patrickdickey> Do we have .mo files for some of the pages already in launchpad?
[18:52] <godbyk> I'll poke around and figure out how to generate the .pot file for our current (ancient) website.
[18:52] <godbyk> We may need to use the same technique with our WordPress template.
[18:52] <PaddyLandau> OK. If it is a simple text-to-.pot thing, I would be able to write a piece of PHP to do this. Can you get me a sample .pot file to look at?
[18:53] <godbyk> patrickdickey: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+export
[18:53] <godbyk> Change "PO format" to "MO format" and click Request Download.
[18:53] <patrickdickey> Quick thing. Preview one of the pages, and look in the footer.
[18:53] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Launchpad will send you an email in a few minutes with a download link.
[18:54] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: The .pot file format is pretty easy. Look in the precise ubuntu manual repository.. in the po/ subdir is a pot file for the manual.
[18:54] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: If you request the downloads from Launchpad, it'll send along the .pot file with the .po or .mo files you requested.
[18:55] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Ah, I see I do indeed have .pot files.
[18:55] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I found another potentially-useful link: http://many.at/wordpresslocalisation/translating-wordpress/
[18:56] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: which page did you want us to preview?
[18:56] <patrickdickey> It doesn't matter. If you look in the footer, there are flags so the viewer can translate it to their language.
[18:57] <PaddyLandau> Sorry, patrickdickey, which website?
[18:57] <patrickdickey> On the test site.
[18:58] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Is that just for previewing? How can they change the language on the site itself when they're browsing it?
[18:58] <patrickdickey> That's for them to change the language. it's a widget that's provided by Q-Translate for the viewer.  The language selector.
[18:59] <PaddyLandau> Yes, that is only for previewing. That is one area that Patrick and I have not yet found -- how to present that to the normal viewer. It's on our "To Do" list.
[19:00] <patrickdickey> It's actually for the viewer. I just opened a different browser, and the flags are in the footer.
[19:00] <PaddyLandau> qTranslate does have this option, which I have enabled: "Detect the language of the browser and redirect accordingly." Does anyone have a proxy from a non-English country to test this?
[19:00] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Fair enough.
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Cool!
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> I wonder why I don't see it when signed in?
[19:01] <patrickdickey> I'm not sure on that.
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> I think we need to move it nearer the top of the page, though. Sitting at the bottom is not friendly.
[19:02] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Nice. Our current site tries to detect the language, too, I think.
[19:02] <PaddyLandau> We need a proxy to test this. Where can we use a proxy from, say, France or China?
[19:03] <godbyk> You can probably modify a browser setting to request a particular language.
[19:03] <patrickdickey> I think we need the browser to be set in a separate language.
[19:03] <godbyk> I don't think they're going to try to detect your language based on IP address.
[19:03] <godbyk> It's probably using the browser's user-agent string and/or an http header.
[19:04] <PaddyLandau> Do you know how to do this in Firefox or Chromium?
[19:04] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Please add to your questions to qTranslate: "How do we move the language selector to the top?" And, at the moment, the language selector shows the languages one under the other. We have many languages (32, I think), so that is not useful -- we would need a drop-down menu.
[19:05] <patrickdickey> Go to Appearance > Widgets, and you can move the language selector around. I chose the footer, because we don't have sidebars available on the pages.
[19:05] <PaddyLandau> Cool.
[19:05] <patrickdickey> And, you can change it to dropdown.
[19:05] <PaddyLandau> Cool again!
[19:05] <godbyk> That's good to hear
[19:06] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I'm having a look but I don't see where to change the settings to drop-down.
[19:06] <PaddyLandau> Oh, I've just found it!
[19:07] <patrickdickey> Ok, so of my questions for their forum, we still need #1 (getting the language code for the download links), and 4 how to import our own .mo files in, and whether that will generate our pages.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> Yes. Slight change: qTranslate documentation says it will generate, so not "whether that will generate our pages", but "how do we get qTranslate to use the revised .mo files?"
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> Action points, because it's already over an hour now.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> 1. patrickdickey to send questions to qTranslate.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> 2. godbyk to try to find out how to generate .pot files.
[19:09] <PaddyLandau> 3. Paddy to look at .pot files and see how they are comprised.
[19:09] <PaddyLandau> I know I've forgotten something...
[19:09] <godbyk> Hmm..
[19:09] <godbyk> I think those are the big issues.
[19:10] <patrickdickey> One thing that I may try is looking at their "translation services settings". We may just have to create our pages, and they'll do the work for us.
[19:10] <PaddyLandau> 4. Paddy to find out how to import .mo files into qTranslate (patrickdickey's questions may help).
[19:10] <godbyk> I can write a separate site/code to handle the publishing process for the manuals.
[19:10] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: yes, find out. But I think that's how they make their money, so it probably won't be cheap. But check anyway!
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: If necessary. However, it should be easy; we can set up a test once we have the translations going.
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> So...
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> 5. patrickdickey to find out about qTranslate's Transation Services.
[19:12] <PaddyLandau> 6. After the translations are working, Paddy to test easy ways to publish in conjunction with godbyk.
[19:12] <PaddyLandau> Kevin, you started this because you were unhappy with the current set-up. How do you feel about the proposals? Do you feel that they will save you work and time, or do you have reservations?
[19:13] <godbyk> I think that if we can get the content from WordPress to Launchpad and back, then using WordPress for the main content of the site will be a good move.
[19:13] <godbyk> It'll be a lot easier to add and edit pages as needed.
[19:13] <godbyk> We can also use the posts for press releases and the like.
[19:14] <godbyk> We'll need to split off the download pages into a separate system and write some code to make it easy for people other than me to upload and publish manuals.
[19:14] <godbyk> But that's something that needs to be done regardless.
[19:14] <godbyk> (It's never good if there's only one person in a project who knows how to do something. Bus factor and all that.)
[19:15] <PaddyLandau> I'm a bit confused about the point about the download pages. Surely the download page is just a drop-down with a language selector to point to the right manual, and likewise for Lulu?
[19:15] <patrickdickey> I think this is how we import the .mo files http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress_in_Your_Language
[19:15] <PaddyLandau> It's only the upload you need to worry about.
[19:15] <godbyk> To sum up: Assuming we can get the translations out of and into WordPress, then I think switching to WordPress and a new publishing system is a very good move.
[19:15] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Well, it's a bit more complicated than that.
[19:16] <godbyk> The download page has some dropdown menus for options.
[19:16] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I believe that applies to localisation of WordPress itself, not to multilingual sites.
[19:16] <godbyk> And I'm not sure if WordPress allows you to do that sort of thing easily.
[19:16] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Do you have an example of what you mean by "options"?
[19:16] <godbyk> But you wouldn't want to make someone edit a WordPress page and upload files and all of that manually. Too many steps makes it easy to screw something up.
[19:16] <patrickdickey> That's the link the Q-Translate FAQ gives for how to manually install your own .mo files. It uses those to generate the translations.
[19:17] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: http://ubuntu-manual.org/downloads
[19:17] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Oh, OK. In that case, I'll have another look at it.
[19:17] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: I understand now. All right, well, it won't be hard to make a small system to link in automatically with WordPress.
[19:18] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Yeah, I don't think it'll be too difficult.
[19:18] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: If you want to play and experiment, email me and I'll send you FTP and database login details.
[19:18] <godbyk> Right now the process involves me uploading PDFs using scp and hand-editing a few different php files, so it's a pain.
[19:18] <PaddyLandau> The whole system is fully backed up, so don't worry about mucking it up.
[19:19] <godbyk> I'd like to just have an upload page that can be used to upload the PDFs and it'll handle everything else behind the scenes.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Sure. We can fix that with some scripts and PHP.
[19:19] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: That's what I'm thinking.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> Cool.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> Any more questions or comments?
[19:20] <patrickdickey> I think in the end (based on my experience with my site), you'll upload the files to the server that hosts the site, and just have to fix the links.
[19:20] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I think that about covers everything.
[19:20] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: godbyk wants to automate the process from FTP through to updating the pages, so that it avoids the translators themselves. It can be done fairly easily, I believe.
[19:21] <PaddyLandau> OK. Shall we call an end to the meeting? I have to get my kids to bed and then me.
[19:21] <godbyk> #endmeeting
[19:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jul 28 19:21:15 2012 UTC.
[19:21] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-28-17.59.moin.txt
[19:21] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-28-17.59.html
[19:21] <godbyk> Thanks for all your help, guys. I really appreciate it!
[19:21] <PaddyLandau> Thank you. Goodbye. Patrick, email me if you want FTP and database login details.
[19:21] <patrickdickey> I'm going to pick a page (if you have a preference let me know) and try uploading the code directly from our test site to it. Just to see what breaks and what doesn't.
[19:22] <patrickdickey> I'll do that. I should be around for about the next 18 hours or so.
[19:22] <godbyk> I'll generally be around, though I'm going to be afk for a short while first.