[00:03] <nellery> Odd-rationale, you can see that in your branch, there is only a data file (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~odd-rationale/5-a-day-data/main/files)
[00:04] <nellery> while here, there is a team file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/5-a-day-data/main/files
[00:57] <Odd-rationale> nellery: sorry. i went to eat dinner...
[00:58] <nellery> no problem
[00:59] <Odd-rationale> i'm using 5-a-day 0.47 and in --help, i dont see --add-team... hmmm
[01:01] <nellery> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
[01:01] <nellery> that might help
[01:01] <nellery> there's a section on teams
[01:01] <Odd-rationale> that's what i was reading...
[01:03] <Odd-rationale> maybe i could just upload my team file... do you know how to do that?
[01:03]  * Odd-rationale is lazy to look it up... ;)
[01:51] <m_newton> Hello, i wanna patch bugs
[01:51] <m_newton> where do i start
[01:54] <DanMulvey> m_newton: take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[01:54] <nellery> m_newton, this channel focuses more on the triaging of bugs.  #ubuntu-motu would be the best place to start
[01:55] <m_newton> thanks
[02:01] <hggdh> m_newton, nevertheless, for you to patch bugs you have to find them. This is, in this case, the ideal place
[02:24] <chuckf> ls
[02:24] <chuckf> oops
[02:24] <chuckf> are there any bugsquad mailing list admins around?
[02:26] <nellery> chuckf, doesn't look like it
[02:27] <chuckf> oh well
[02:39] <anakron> HI all
[02:47] <nellery> hi anakron
[02:47] <nellery> and... I've got to run :)
[02:48] <anakron> :O
[02:48] <anakron> ok
[02:48] <anakron> bye
[02:49] <bdmurray> chuckf: I'm one
[02:50] <anakron> Hi Brian
[02:51] <anakron> ill translate the interview with some help of ubuntu-bugsquad
[02:51] <anakron> :-)
[02:52] <bdmurray> That's great! I saw
[02:52] <bdmurray> Are you doing the audio only or the video one?
[02:52] <anakron> Video One?
[02:52] <anakron> :O can be added some subtitles
[02:52] <anakron> ....mmmm
[02:52] <anakron> :-)
[02:52] <anakron> the audio
[02:53] <anakron> BUt im thinking to create a team that could transcribe and the translate it
[02:53] <bdmurray> That'd be great!
[02:53] <bdmurray> I'm off for dinner
[02:54] <anakron> ok
[03:21] <st33med> Hello. I wish to join and help out with the ubuntu-bug team.
[03:27] <hggdh> hello st33med,  welcome
[03:27] <hggdh> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[03:28] <st33med> kayd
[03:28] <hggdh> this will give you an idea of what to do, and we are always here to help
[03:28] <st33med> *kays
[03:28] <st33med> Alright, thank you
[03:28] <hggdh> you are welcome
[03:33] <st33med> About the Duplicate message... How would I have "quick" access to that message.
[04:35] <bdmurray> chuckf: in slide 4 more often than not it is "Help -> Report a Problem" vs Bug
[04:36] <bdmurray> chuckf: It looks great though!  Thanks for writing it up
[04:39] <chuckf> brian, thanks for the info
[04:49] <chuckf> bdmurray, I just uploaded a new version with that correction in it
[05:35] <emma> Hey guys.
[05:35] <emma> I am trying to get the knack of bug triaging
[05:35] <emma> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/151077
[05:35] <emma> Would this be a bug that has to do with xorg?
[05:35] <emma> Some times it is hard to tell if something is even really a bug.
[05:36] <emma> I appreciate any heads up anyone can offer or any tips in general for how to triage well.
[05:36]  * Hobbsee notes that bug is substantially lacking in information.
[05:36]  * Hobbsee notes it's probably also pebkac.
[05:37] <emma> What's pebkac?
[05:37] <Hobbsee> google it.
[05:37] <emma> I should probably talk to someone else.
[05:37] <Odd-rationale> problem exists between keyboard and chair
[05:37] <Hobbsee> also, i'd wonder if you need to restart X for the changes to take effect, which i'll bet this user hasn't.
[05:37] <Odd-rationale> i'm guessing he is adjusting settings in gnome-mouse-properties...
[05:38] <Odd-rationale> i don't know whether you need to restart X for that. but you might...
[05:38]  * Hobbsee goes back to chairing the meeting.
[05:38] <emma> I just picked this one some what randomly, what should be done with a bug report like this though? I don't think that pebkac is one of the options is it? :)
[05:39] <Hobbsee> ask for more information?
[05:39] <Odd-rationale> just give it you're best shot. leave it alone if you are totally blank...
[05:39] <Odd-rationale> a problem that ancient... he probably won't check up on it... ;)
[05:40] <Hobbsee> oh, wow, nice top search bar
[05:40]  * Hobbsee would also consider making it a launchpad question
[05:41] <emma> So you add a message to it that says we would like more information? Things like which version of Ubuntu and other such information?
[05:41] <Odd-rationale> yes, you could do that.
[05:42] <st33med> Hey, ho do you guys add those automated messages to incomplete or invalid bugs?
[05:42] <st33med> *how
[05:42] <Hobbsee> st33med: it's a greasemonkey script.  i've forgotten the name though
[05:42] <st33med> emma, you would want to ask if he has also restarted X yet
[05:42] <st33med> Ah
[05:43] <Hobbsee> try googling launchpad autoreply greasemonkey script or something?
[05:43]  * Hobbsee can't, due to the aforementioned meeting.
[05:43] <emma> st33med: okay. I will do that, as well as recommending that he include more information like uname ?
[05:43] <Hobbsee> how would uname be helpful?
[05:43] <st33med> emma, you can also do that if you want.
[05:43] <emma> Having done that, then does that qualify as having 'triaged' this bug?
[05:43] <st33med> But..
[05:43] <pwnguin> wrt to 151077, it's probably a dupe based on when it was filed
[05:43] <pwnguin> i think thats about the same time that the WSJ guy complained about that
[05:43] <Hobbsee> emma: no.  it's incomplete, as it requires more information from the reporter.
[05:43] <st33med> Hobbsee, Google = Friend :D
[05:43] <pwnguin> but ask for more info
[05:44] <Hobbsee> st33med: indeed.
[05:44] <emma> pwnguin: Thanks I'm here to try to learn how to do this well. I would like to be triaging.
[05:44] <st33med> But, I am tired, therefore, I must pay my friend a visit some other time
[05:44] <st33med> night
[05:45] <pwnguin> so we need more info before we can even assign a package. which version of ubuntu (or kubuntu). whether they have gsynaptics installed, so on
[05:45] <emma> So triaging this bug will depend upon hearing back from them?
[05:46] <pwnguin> it should
[05:46] <pwnguin> i get the feeling some people don't follow up
[05:46] <emma> I think that's very very likely.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> well, it's partly triaged.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> and it'll autoclose, if you leave it at incomplete, and the guy doesn't respond.
[05:47] <Hobbsee> as for fully triaging, not really, as someone else will have to go back and triage it again, if the guy does respond.
[05:47] <emma> pwnguin: speaking as pretty much an ordinary user, I think the expectation is that once you report the bug at all you've done your thing and thats it.
[05:47] <pwnguin> well, time to re-educate!
[05:47] <hggdh> indeed
[05:47] <pwnguin> personal service!
[05:48] <pwnguin> the challenge i see isn't so much getting people to respond, but getting the person who asked for more info to make a decision =(
[05:49] <pwnguin> im guilty of it myself on occasion
[05:49] <emma> (Okay so keeping in mind that I just kind of grabbed this one at random so it's just an example) For the purposes of this GBJ, would sending him a message asking him for the relevant useful additional information, count as being triaged enough to add that to the 5-a-day thingy?
[05:49] <hggdh> emma, no, not really (as counting in as triaged)
[05:49] <hggdh> it is, nevertheless, a necessary step
[05:49] <Hobbsee> for the purposes of 5-a-day, i'd say yes.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> as to it being fully triaged, no.
[05:50] <pwnguin> i'd always assumed 5-a-day was "if you touch a bug"
[05:50] <Odd-rationale> eww. i don;t like touchin bugs....
[05:50] <emma> No I know it must not be fully triaged. I think fully triaged sort of means, it is now a fully beautiful bug report such as one of you in here would have written in the first place, sitting in the correct package.
[05:50] <emma> yes?
[05:51] <Hobbsee> er, yes.  i think so
[05:51] <hggdh> reproducible, undestandable, nice backtrace, etc, yes
[05:51] <pwnguin> i didnt thing fully triaged was really something just anyone can do
[05:51] <emma> But I (and a lot of us who are trying to learn for this Global Bug Jam) don't know a lot about this yet so I'm looking for a better idea of what we are to do.
[05:51] <hggdh> s/undes/unders/
[05:52] <pwnguin> triage includes an importance, which i find a bit silly.
[05:52] <emma> pwnguin: so it sounds like it's a little bit subjective.
[05:52] <pwnguin> well, i think so
[05:52] <emma> Sending the guy a message that asks him for the right information will be a step in the right direction though.
[05:52] <pwnguin> yse
[05:53] <emma> We just do what we can do then.
[05:53] <Odd-rationale> he should get emailed if you add a comment anyways...
[05:53] <emma> Right that's what i meant by sending a message.
[05:53] <pwnguin> ask for some info, click the "subscribe me" check box, and set the status to "incomplete" with a note that the status will change when the info is provided
[05:53] <hggdh> unfortunately, it is always a bit subjective. A bug is triaged when all necessary data needed to understand the issue, reproduce it, etc is available
[05:54] <hggdh> the crux is " all necessary data"
[05:54] <emma> Yes.
[05:54] <emma> So that could be hardly anything or a great deal.
[05:54] <emma> Could you give me right now a comprehensive list of general information that everyone should include in every bug report?
[05:54] <hggdh> darn it, lost my international keyboard... all hail ev-dev
[05:55] <emma> The uname info? What else?
[05:55] <hggdh> emma, it varies with the issue. A good approach is the wiki (hold on, I will get the link)
[05:55] <emma> Thank you.
[05:55] <pwnguin> emma: different packages have different needs =/
[05:55] <pwnguin> x related ones require xorg logs and conf files
[05:55] <pwnguin> kernel has its own list
[05:55] <emma> Okay that makes sense.
[05:56] <emma> I have an idea if it does not already exist.
[05:56] <emma> Could one of you experts make a page that has the main (most common) packages, and then beneath each package the type of information that is required at minimum for that package?
[05:57] <pwnguin> i think hggdh is looking for that
[05:57] <emma> ahha okay. :)
[05:57] <hggdh> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
[05:57] <hggdh> and
[05:57] <emma> didn't know if that would already exist.
[05:57] <hggdh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[05:57] <pwnguin> personally, i pick a few packages i care about and subscribe all their bugs
[05:57] <hggdh> some packages have special requirements/requests
[05:58] <pwnguin> im also not a very typical ubuntu-bugs person ;)
[05:58] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: fwe are?
[05:58] <hggdh> either way works -- I usually restrict myself to Evolution
[05:58] <emma> I see, so sort of concentrating on a certain package .
[05:59] <Hobbsee> or groups of them, yes
[05:59] <emma> I hope you all don't mind my series of questions, I'm quite new and I'm trying to learn to help my friends too.
[05:59] <pwnguin> my perception is that most people work on whatever, just because there's too many packages versus people
[05:59] <hggdh> sometimes you have bad experiences with some maintainers (I had mine) -- but, instead of quitting, you can just leave the -- for you -- problematic packages (as I did)
[05:59] <hggdh> at least I am still trying to help
[06:00] <emma> cool.
[06:00] <emma> yes that is good of you. I respect people who have a bad experience with some aspect of the community and never the less keep their spirit and try to do good things.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> entirety of kde is a fun playground :)
[06:00] <hggdh> sometimes, you had some, huh, not so nice exchanges with other people. This is also part of the game
[06:00] <emma> Right Hobbsee?
[06:01] <hggdh> and I agree with Hobbsee KDE is a nice playground right now
[06:01] <pwnguin> heh. one of the neuros devs i know is upset with kde in ubuntu
[06:01] <Hobbsee> emma: your dealings with the irc are entirely orthagonal to this, and as the irc team still has juristiction over this channel, we'd prefer for you to stay on topic.
[06:01] <emma> Not familiar enough with KDE since I almost exclusively use Ubuntu so far.
[06:01] <emma> Hobbsee: No idea what you are talking about.
[06:02] <Hobbsee> emma: and FYI, don't try to bait me.  it won't work.
[06:02] <pwnguin> this just got very wierd
[06:02] <hggdh> Hobbsee, perhaps you were talking about me, not emma?
[06:02] <emma> pwnguin: no kidding.
[06:02] <Hobbsee> hggdh: nope
[06:02] <Odd-rationale> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/252228 <-- funniest bug i heard in a long time!
[06:03] <techno_freak> :0
[06:03] <emma> Odd-rationale: that doesn't even seem possible.
[06:03] <Hobbsee> sure it is.
[06:03] <Hobbsee> if you manage to crash gnome-session-thingo, it'll change your theme.
[06:04] <hggdh> might have some trace in ~/.xsession-errors
[06:05] <hggdh> renaming a log file is always a dangerous action
[06:06] <Odd-rationale> doesn't xorg create a new log file everytime it starts anyways?
[06:06] <hggdh> every time it starts, yes
[06:06] <hggdh> but in this case it was not restarted. I do not know how the code deals with trying to write to a file that does not exist anymore
[06:07] <Hobbsee> errr...
[06:07]  * hggdh stands in attention
[06:07] <Hobbsee> note to self: don't run gnome-session when it's already in a session
[06:07] <hggdh> :-)
[06:07] <RAOF> Hobbsee: It's not idempotent? :)
[06:07] <hggdh> perhaps isopotent?
[06:08]  * Hobbsee has no idea what that is?
[06:09] <Odd-rationale> Hobbsee: what happens?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> RAOF: ah right.  partially
[06:09] <pwnguin> idempotent == doesn't change states
[06:09] <pwnguin> like asking the ATM how much money you have
[06:09] <Hobbsee> Odd-rationale: try it.  it doesn't seem to do anything particularly devastating.  but it's weird.
[06:10] <Hobbsee> oh, and don't ctrl+c it afterwards!
[06:10] <hggdh> Hobbsee, just start another gnome-session?
[06:10] <Hobbsee> oh, adn close firefox first.
[06:10] <Odd-rationale> Hobbsee: i was hoping you wouldn't say that... you know my curiousity is piqued...
[06:10] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:10] <Hobbsee> ehe
[06:10] <hggdh> oh boy
[06:11] <hggdh> weird
[06:11] <hggdh> I even got sound back!
[06:11] <hggdh> and nautilus crashed...
[06:11] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:11] <Hobbsee> like i say...it seems...interesting
[06:11] <hggdh> but, then, now that I have sound again...
[06:12] <Odd-rationale> just type gnome-session in a gnome-terminal?
[06:12] <hggdh> yep
[06:12] <Odd-rationale> [odd-rationale@evo ~]$ gnome-session
[06:12] <Odd-rationale> gnome-session: you're already running a session manager
[06:12] <Odd-rationale> [odd-rationale@evo ~]$
[06:13] <Odd-rationale> :/
[06:13] <Odd-rationale> not very interesting to me...
[06:13] <Hobbsee> Odd-rationale: would you be running metacity?
[06:13] <Odd-rationale> yep
[06:13] <Hobbsee> hggdh: are you?
[06:13]  * Hobbsee wonders if it's a compiz / metacity thing.
[06:14] <hggdh> perhaps it depends on what version of Ubuntu you are running. On mine (Intrepid with metacity) I have two gnome-sessions, one running and one defunct metacity
[06:14] <hggdh> I do not run compiz
[06:15] <Hobbsee> very strange.
[06:15] <Odd-rationale> is intrepid gnome 2.23 ?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> oh well.  bugs!
[06:15] <hggdh> the new metacity now seems to be a zombie
[06:15] <Hobbsee> Odd-rationale: .6.  yes
[06:15] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, yes
[06:15] <emma> :)
[06:16] <hggdh> btw -- anyone running Intrepid here?
[06:16] <hggdh> bad news on keyboard mapping right now...
[06:17] <Hobbsee> yes
[06:17] <Hobbsee> there's a solution for it, though
[06:17] <Hobbsee> oh, and you need to install -evdev if you don't have it
[06:17] <Odd-rationale> Hobbsee: well, i'm on arch. so that might be it...
[06:17] <RAOF> pwnguin: No, 'x' is idempotent <=> x^2 = 1 :P
[06:18] <RAOF> Eeep.  I fail!
[06:18] <RAOF> Idempotent <=> x^2 = x
[06:18] <pwnguin> uh
[06:18] <Hobbsee> RAOF: offtopic, surely?  :)
[06:18] <RAOF> Where here, we have 'gnome-session' as 'x' and the operation of running 'x' is multiplication :)
[06:18] <pwnguin> the formal definition of idempotent is that multiple applications of the same operation yield the same result
[06:19] <RAOF> pwnguin: Right.  x^2 = x.  I was thinking involution.
[06:19] <RAOF> Also, somewhat offtopic, yes.
[06:19] <pwnguin> the end result is the same state :{
[06:19] <RAOF> pwnguin: Only if it has already been run, though.
[06:19] <pwnguin> what?
[06:19] <RAOF> But everyone needs to know more maths!
[06:20] <Hobbsee> hey, wha?
[06:20] <pwnguin> more math is good
[06:20] <Hobbsee> sandisk apparently has discontinued their 8gb usb sticks ;(
[06:20] <pwnguin> but logic helps too
[06:20] <RAOF> pwnguin: gnome-session is idempotent with respect to the operation 'running' iff running gnome-session twice yields the same state as running gnome-session once.
[06:21] <RAOF> Hobbsee: To replace them with 16gb usb sticks?
[06:21] <pwnguin> closer
[06:21] <Hobbsee> RAOF: no - it appears they're only making 4gb ones now.
[06:21] <pwnguin> RAOF: you need for all
[06:21] <Hobbsee> or at least, in teh titanium.
[06:21] <pwnguin> if it runs a third time and you get two sesssions
[06:21] <pwnguin> fail
[06:21] <RAOF> pwnguin: But then running it twice doesn't result in the same state as running it once :P
[06:22] <dholbach> good morning
[06:22] <RAOF> x^2 = x <=> x^n = x :P
[06:22] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach
[06:22] <pwnguin> we'll just leave that inductive reasoning on the table
[06:22] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[06:22] <RAOF> Bah.  x^2 = x => x^n = x, but not the converse.
[06:22] <hggdh> cheers, dholbach
[06:23] <dholbach> hiya hggdh :)
[06:23] <RAOF> Howdy dholbach.  Welcome to #ubuntu-mathematics.
[06:23] <pwnguin> running gnome session n times results in 1 long lived gnome-session, for all x greater than 0
[06:23] <hggdh> and some zombies
[06:23] <dholbach> WAAH!
[06:23] <hggdh> at least on Intrepid
[06:23] <RAOF> pwnguin: Right.  Which is implied by 'running gnome session twice results in the same state as running gnome-session once' ;)
[06:24] <hggdh> so the two set have the same cardinality
[06:24] <pwnguin> i worry about applying inductive reasoning to parallel processes
[06:25] <RAOF> pwnguin: Right.  My 'run' operation assumes non-parallelness.
[06:25] <RAOF> The word for which I know, but can't seem to place.
[06:25] <dholbach> hi RAOF :)
[06:25] <pwnguin> serialized
[06:25] <RAOF> Possibly serialness.  Yes.
[06:25] <RAOF> Mmm.  Cereal.
[06:26]  * RAOF returns to the geometry of lines in 3-space.
[06:26] <pwnguin> at any rate, in the real world, the pid allocator has changed
[06:27] <pwnguin> emma: how goes the triaging?
[06:28] <schakrava> hi folks. newbie here. trying to triage my first bug(255857). verified that it has all the required information, easily reproduced it, subscribed to the bug, commented and changed the status to confirmed. what happens next?
[06:28] <emma> Still looking for one to dive into.
[06:28] <pwnguin> what was wrong with the last one?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> bug 255857
[06:28] <emma> It looked like you might have said that one could not be triaged sufficiently to count.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> schakrava: looks good to me.  wait, and go on to another bug?
[06:29]  * pwnguin shakes his fist at dholbach!
[06:29] <pwnguin> look what you've done
[06:29] <schakrava> thanks hobbsee
[06:30] <hggdh> interesting. Just ran a search no synaptic for evdev, and got pretty much all the -dev packages
[06:30] <dholbach> please network-manager, use *my* wlan, it is better for you! GAH!
[06:31] <hggdh> yes, and also got the xserver-xorg-input-evdev. But still, why the hits on -dev?
[06:31] <pwnguin> dholbach: if i took a New bug, discovered it needed information, and did the right things asking for a reply, would that be 5-a-day worthy?
[06:32] <hggdh> pwnguin, to my understanding, yes
[06:33] <dholbach> pwnguin: absolutely - the 5-a-day docs speak of "if you do a bug ..." - that's generally "making a bug better"
[06:33] <pwnguin> emma: see, it does count!
[06:33]  * Hobbsee makes all the bugs better by marking them invalid.
[06:33] <hggdh> LOL
[06:34] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: you should start the bug assassination squad
[06:34] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm not sure the large quantity of bugsquad members would agree with you on that. :)
[06:34] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: now that sounds like fun.
[06:34] <emma> dholbach: okay wonderful!
[06:34] <Hobbsee> dholbach: oh well.  i'm making the bugs 'better'.  like you said.
[06:34] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:34] <dholbach> :-)
[06:34] <pwnguin> kills bugs in their sleep before they have a chance to infect the software
[06:34] <pwnguin> with defects!
[06:34] <Hobbsee> exactly.
[06:34] <dholbach> did you guys see bdmurray's and ogasawara's bug jam bingo?
[06:34] <pwnguin> i did not.
[06:34] <emma> dholbach: I was not sure if that is what it meant or if it meant having a 100 percent triaged bug in a final condition such as you might have it if you had filed it yourself. (by yourself here I mean literally you, dholbac).
[06:35] <dholbach> Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day
[06:35] <emma> dholbach: I didn't want to count the bug unless I knew the proper standard.
[06:35] <emma> Okay thank you.
[06:36] <dholbach> so there's a lot of ways to make a bug more telling, more insightful
[06:36] <dholbach> Hobbsee: ^ better? :)
[06:36] <hggdh> emma, the ideal state for a bug is correctly identified and resolved. Asking for needed data is a step in that direction
[06:36] <Hobbsee> dholbach: no :P
[06:36] <pwnguin> heh, the ideal state is "fix released"
[06:37] <hggdh> if a fix is warranted, yes
[06:37] <pwnguin> oh, i guess you said that
[06:37] <hggdh> darn it, where is my international keyboard? :-/
[06:38] <pwnguin>     'fisty':'N32',
[06:38] <pwnguin>     'gusty':'N33',
[06:38] <pwnguin>     'harty':'N34',
[06:39] <hggdh> harty??
[06:39] <pwnguin> i like fisty
[06:39] <hggdh> oh, sorry
[06:39] <hggdh> too late for meself, me guess
[06:39] <Odd-rationale> i actually thought it has gusty at first...
[06:44] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: you've been talking to jdub, i take it?
[06:47] <hggdh> schakrava, re. bug 255857, what version of Ubuntu/rythmbox are you running?
[06:48] <pwnguin> pwnguin: ?
[06:48] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: that came from the bingo generator
[06:50] <schakrava> hggdh: same as the reporter, i think. ubuntu: 8.04 and rhythmbox 0.11.5
[06:52] <schakrava> 8.04.1 to be precise
[06:52] <hggdh> schakrava, can you please state this in the bug (for completeness)
[06:53] <hggdh> this will help the maintainers
[06:54] <choudesh> what times the the bug jam officially start?
[06:54] <hggdh> since I do not do sound, I cannot mark it as triaged (I do not know what else would be needed for rythmbox). Hell, I do not even have sound right now...
[06:56] <schakrava> done, added comments. thanks for helping
[06:57] <schakrava> so someone will automatically pick it up and fix the code eventually?
[06:57] <hggdh> schakrava, thank you for helping triage them bugs. Your help is appreciated
[06:57] <tuxmaniac> can someone advice whether I should close this bug as Fix Released and how to answer the OP's question? Bug 119927
[06:58] <hggdh> schakrava, I expect someone in bug-control, or the maintainer, will pick it up. As I said, I do not want to mark it triaged due to lack of knowledge on sound issues
[06:59] <schakrava> ok. sounds good. just making sure since i am a total newbie
[07:00] <hggdh> tuxmaniac, it sounds more like -- now -- invalid. We do not know what fixed it, nor if it was indeed a code fix
[07:00] <Odd-rationale> How do upstream project get notified?
[07:01] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, it is usually our responsibility to open a bug upstream
[07:02] <hggdh> tuxmaniac, for the response... I guess the best is to state we depend on helpers to look at bugs and work on them.
[07:02] <hggdh> schakrava, welcome, and thanks for helping
[07:03] <Odd-rationale> hggdh: so setting the padkage to gnome-desktop or kde4base is not enough... too bad... :(
[07:03] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, :-D indeed
[07:05] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, please keep in mind that not all use launchpad... so upstream does in fact means "up"... and it is part of our work to let "up" know of an issue
[07:05]  * hggdh also got hit by that
[07:05] <tuxmaniac> thanks hggdh
[07:05] <Odd-rationale> hggdh: so i have to go to the gnome bugzilla to file an upstream bug? and to the kde (whatever)?
[07:06] <hggdh> welcome, tuxmaniac. Thank you for helping
[07:07] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, yes. For KDE it is http://bugs.kde.org/
[07:07] <hggdh> and there are many others...
[07:07] <Odd-rationale> that sucks...
[07:08] <Odd-rationale> doesn't launchpad have integration with bugzilla and trac? i remember reading about it somewhere...
[07:08] <hggdh> well... an old friend of mine used to say "life sucks, and then you die". I prefer "such is life"
[07:08] <tuxmaniac> One silly question.. If I had triaged this bug yesterday and then today after the response I set it to invalid can I add it to my 5-a-day list today also?? :P
[07:08] <hggdh> gnome bugzilla has had some history issues on integration.
[07:09] <hggdh> tuxmaniac, yes, you can.
[07:09] <Odd-rationale> tuxmaniac: uh, yeah ;)
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> hehehcool cool
[07:09] <hggdh> tuxmaniac, one less bug on the face of Earth is worth a 5-a-day
[07:10] <hggdh> (for the correct, kosher, reasons)
[07:10] <tuxmaniac> Odd-rationale: damn. 46!!! :O
[07:11] <Odd-rationale> :E
[07:11] <Odd-rationale> the some 5 packages 9 times... :P
[07:11] <Odd-rationale> *same
[07:15] <dholbach> does anybody know who is going to organise the Bug Jam in Ecuador?
[07:15] <dholbach> is it Ruben Romero?
[07:16] <dholbach> ah yeah, looks like it
[07:19] <pwnguin> im not sure to ask here or in -quality, but i know some LP api users are here: how many reports assigned to yelp get reassigned elsewhere over time?
[07:27] <Odd-rationale> what's the name of the thing that automatically install codecs for totem/etc. ?
[07:28] <tuxmaniac> dholbach: we might be getting around 3-4 in Chennai, a similar 3 in Bangalore and most of the other crowd spread across the gigantic country on IRC.
[07:29] <tuxmaniac> also dholbach I added the 5-a-day team as indian-team (as in LP) but doesnt reflect in the stats until now. Any reasons?
[07:30] <dholbach> tuxmaniac: make sure it shows up in your 5-a-day-data branch on code.launchpad.net/people/+me
[07:30] <dholbach> tuxmaniac: then allow some time for the stats to be updated
[07:41] <Odd-rationale> why can i not change the importance?
[07:41] <pwnguin> because you're not important
[07:41] <Odd-rationale> :'(
[07:41] <pwnguin> more seriously, because it's a team based thing
[07:41] <Odd-rationale> NOBODY is important!
[07:41] <pwnguin> im not important either
[07:41]  * Odd-rationale is nobody...
[07:42] <pwnguin> in fact, i think importance is a bit disingenious
[07:43] <thekorn> good morning!
[07:43] <pwnguin> if five developers all have critical tasks on their queue ahead of a high task, its not going to get looked at quickly. similarly, if one developer has a bunch of low priority tasks and a medium comes up
[07:43] <pwnguin> its his highest priority
[07:44] <persia> Well, maybe.  Depends on the developer, and any priorities that may be external to bugs.
[07:44] <pwnguin> importance, basically is a socially calculated thing
[07:44] <Odd-rationale> I just wanted to change something to a feature request...
[07:44] <persia> If, for example, a given package needs a rebuild as part of a library transition someone is doing, they may choose to fix bugs in that package before bugs in other packages they watch, regardless of importance.
[07:45] <pwnguin> yea, its a bit annoying that wishlist is protected
[07:45] <persia> Odd-rationale: Best method is to ask for someone to change the importance here until you've collected enough triage experience to join the team that sets importance.
[07:45] <Odd-rationale> i see... Thanks!
[08:02] <tuxmaniac> if someone is on PPC can you please help me confirm the bug 37169 presence in Hardy's maxima ?
[08:02] <tuxmaniac> the last confirmed report was for Feisty
[08:02] <tuxmaniac> or rather edgy
[08:03] <persia> Do we have a PPC testers team?
[08:04] <persia> I know that as a member of CJK-testers, it's very handy to get the team subscribed to bugs that need CJK locales to verify/troubleshoot.  I wonder if the same would be true for various architectures.
[08:06] <emma> I'm learning about bug triaging - What needs to be done to this bug report so that it is triaged? -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/255956
[08:09] <Odd-rationale> emma: i would guess either firefox or java, based on the comments...
[08:10] <emma> We might have been looking at the wrong list. That list we are looking at are all bugs that are not fully triaged, so there are various little things to improve them, but here's the list of bugs that 'have no home'
[08:10] <emma> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_n ...
[08:10] <emma> ... o_package.used=&field.has_no_package=on&search=Search
[08:10] <emma> Wholey moley
[08:11] <techno_freak> :0
[08:11] <emma> Try this -- http://tinyurl.com/5uxg9a
[08:12] <emma> That is the list of bugs with no home.
[08:17]  * tuxmaniac sees the need for including changelog info right from the previous version synced from debian till the current sync
[08:17] <emma> hi mvo
[08:17] <emma> oh wait i didn't know we were in this channel :)
[08:18] <persia> tuxmaniac: We try to do that with the -v option when building the source package, but not everyone always remembers.
[08:19] <tuxmaniac> persia: yeah. true. bug 172575 would have got closed if that was the case :-)
[08:19] <tuxmaniac> In Ubuntu it is still open
[08:19] <tuxmaniac> :)
[08:21] <persia> tuxmaniac: Well, that's also part of the bugs-fixed-elsewhere problem: often the format of the notice of bug closure isn't presented well when it comes to Ubuntu.
[08:21] <tuxmaniac> aah ok
[08:21] <persia> I hear that the LP devs are looking at version tracking of bugs against packages, so we know in which version it existed, and in which it was closed.
[08:21] <persia> If there was also a bug importer for Debian bugs that included the Debian version information, we might be able to leverage that.
[08:22] <persia> Note that this isn't necessarily 100% correct, as sometimes a merge preserves the thing that was broken (if, perhaps, it fixes a different use case, and some debate would be useful)
[08:24] <tuxmaniac> looks like the package was synced right out of debian and ubuntu did not have local changes. Also the OP says the patch fixes the bug. So I think it should be closed in Ubuntu as well.
[08:26] <persia> tuxmaniac: In this case, I completely agree with you: I just wanted to point out some of the factors that might complicate things, as I think each bug deserves investigation, rather than just being closed because the version numbers appear to have grown.
[08:26]  * persia recently fixed a bug with a patch that had been in upstream VCS for a long time, and just never made it to a release
[08:27] <mvo> hi emma
[08:33] <emma> Hi.
[08:37] <Odd-rationale> anyone know how to force the ~/.5-a-day-<username>/team file into ones bzr branch?
[08:40] <seb128> dholbach, jcastro: around?
[08:40] <Odd-rationale> 5-a-day --add <team> added the correct team to the ~/.5-a-day-<username>/team file. but for some reason. that file is not showing up on the bzr branch...
[08:41] <seb128> Odd-rationale: hi, I just wanted to talk to you, could you stop reassigning random bugs to gnome-desktop on launchpad?
[08:41] <Odd-rationale> seb128: sorry. like which one?
[08:41] <seb128> Odd-rationale: gnome-desktop is the "about GNOME" dialog and a library, it has nothing to do with all the things you reassign there
[08:42] <seb128> Odd-rationale: like every single font, sound, etc issue you reassigned there
[08:42] <Odd-rationale> so where would i do something that has to do with the gnome-appearence thing?
[08:42] <Odd-rationale> s/do/put
[08:43] <seb128> gnome-appearance-capplet is a gnome-control-center binary
[08:43] <persia> Odd-rationale: As a general rule, don't assign bugs to anyone other than yourself or someone for whom you know you can speak (e.g. your staff)
[08:43] <dholbach> seb128: yes
[08:43] <Odd-rationale> seb128: I see. thanks for telling me!
[08:43] <seb128> dholbach: wanted to ask if you knew about Odd-rationale and can make him stop doing wrong reassigning but he's on the channel
[08:44]  * seb128 cleans the mess now
[08:44] <dholbach> Odd-rationale: one of your next commits should push it to LP
[08:44] <Odd-rationale> dholbach: ok.
[08:44] <dholbach> Odd-rationale: but to force it you can        cd ~/.5-a-day-<LPID>; bzr push
[08:44] <Odd-rationale> dholbach: ok thanks!
[08:45] <Odd-rationale> seb128: if there is anything else i;m doing wrong, please let me know...
[08:45] <Odd-rationale> persia: i assigned it to a package. does that count?
[08:45] <seb128> Odd-rationale: you flooded gnome-desktop wrongly but out of that no ;-) as a rule if you don't know where a bug should go don't reassigning it
[08:46] <Odd-rationale> ok. i didn't know a gnome-control-center package existed... until you told me.
[08:46] <persia> Odd-rationale: Sorry, no.  My confusion.  That said, gnome-desktop is only a meta-package, and probably has extremely few bugs.
[08:48] <seb128> persia: to be exact it's not, it's a lib and the about GNOME dialog
[08:48] <seb128> libgnome-desktop and gnome-about binaries
[08:48] <persia> seb128: Indeed.  I am much mistaken.
[08:48] <Odd-rationale> i see. the thing is, i couldn't find where to put the gnome-mouse-properties, appearence, etc. Now i know better...
[08:48] <persia> Odd-rationale: If you have trouble, ask here, and someone can help you find the right package.
[08:48] <Odd-rationale> thanks!
[08:49] <dholbach> adding a note to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage might help
[08:49] <Odd-rationale> read that. good stuff!
[09:01] <pwnguin> should Bug #234865 be fix released?
[09:04] <thekorn> pwnguin, no, it's fixreleased for almost all tasks, but fix did not land into hardy yet
[13:48] <mvo> pedro_: if you could do a sru verficatin for #255666 that would be cool (the isv guys are pushing for it)
[13:49] <pedro_> mvo: ok no problem, I'll do it in a few minutes
[13:51] <mvo> pedro_: muchos gracias
[13:51] <pedro_> mvo: por nada ;-)
[14:32] <bddebian> Boo
[14:35] <qense> hello
[14:35] <bddebian> Hello qense
[15:01] <Odd-rationale> looking at the comments, this does not seem to be a bug anymore: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/241376 should i mark as invalid? or what is the correct procedure? Thanks
[15:02] <Hobbsee> Odd-rationale: sounds good to me.
[15:02] <Odd-rationale> k. thanks!
[15:02] <Odd-rationale> this is the first time i came across one that i felt should be marked invalid. just wanted to make sure...
[15:25] <tuxmaniac> Hi. I did 5-a-day --add-team <teamname> but it still isnt reflecting in the stats. Its been 2 days. nd I again tried it today half hour back.
[15:25] <tuxmaniac> --show-team shows the teams
[15:25] <tuxmaniac> any clue?
[15:28] <Odd-rationale> try to cd into your ~/.5-a-day-<LPID>
[15:28] <Odd-rationale> and run "bzr push"
[15:31] <tuxmaniac> says no new revisions to push
[15:34] <Odd-rationale> hmm...
[15:35] <tuxmaniac> hopefully it doesnt happen to the tags for GBJ :-)
[15:35] <Odd-rationale> other people were having the same trouble as you...
[15:46] <Odd-rationale> so, if in the comments, someone says "i have that problem, too" is it safe to mark as confirmed?
[15:46] <tuxmaniac> Odd-rationale: I think so yes. But its better to reproduce yourself if possible
[15:47] <Odd-rationale> k.
[15:48] <techno_freak> Odd-rationale, ask them whether they could reproduce the bug using the same steps as provided by the original bug reporter, or does he follow something different or has more info?
[15:48] <hggdh> including version information
[15:48] <Odd-rationale> ok
[15:55] <tuxmaniac> funny bug this is. But yes. It is reporducible. bug 164951
[15:56] <techno_freak> there have been earlier bugs similar to such behaviour like window maximizing too big that the title border goes out of screen space, etc.
[15:56] <techno_freak> title bar*
[15:59] <Odd-rationale> i had that, in gutsy with compiz i think it was... ;)
[16:25] <Odd-rationale> Hmm. so what if a guy reports a bug, and later comes back and reports that he can no longer reproduce it after reboot? Does this invalidates the bug?
[16:26] <seb128> depends if the bug has enough details to be useful or not
[16:26] <seb128> if it lacks detail and the submitter don't get it to reply to questions it should be closed
[16:39] <Odd-rationale> What do i do if a bug report is written mostly in another language?
[16:39] <techno_freak> seb128, with respect to bug #255932, alsa seems to work for him, but for me with pulseaudio even rhythmbox doesn't play alone
[16:40] <techno_freak> Odd-rationale, you use google translate or seek help of some people who know that language to translate it for you if you can find one, else just move on..
[16:40] <seb128> techno_freak: ok, I've no real clue about the sound stack, I just know flash creates some issues and pulseaudio some others so usually it's of those to blame
[16:40] <techno_freak> seb128, hmm ok :)
[16:40] <Odd-rationale> Is there a bugs section of lp for laungauges other and en?
[16:41] <seb128> techno_freak: that's just that people open bugs against rhythmbox and I know it's not rhythmbox fault ;-)
[16:41] <techno_freak> he he, agreed ;)
[16:43] <m_newton> hello
[16:43] <m_newton> i was looking at this bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/146512 <<< it is a update bug [from fiesty to gutsy] What should i categorise it as
[16:47] <techno_freak> m_newton, the bug is a bit old, I would ask them if they had similar problems with gutsy > hardy upgrade? :)
[16:47] <techno_freak> m_newton, mark as incomplete, so if they don't respond, it expires :))
[16:47] <techno_freak> err.. s/:))/:)/
[17:01] <bdmurray> bug 256089 could use some translation
[17:05] <techno_freak> anybody uses email notifications in Pidgin?
[17:11] <emma> When we find a bug that is obviously missing information that is neeeded to adress it, should we leave a reply asking for the information and then also mark as incomplete?
[17:12] <bdmurray> emma: yes, that is correct
[17:12] <emma> Okay thanks.
[17:13] <techno_freak> bug #255972 - asked in #pidgin where i got the response that it should be ideally login directly but it never worked that way for years. What shall I do with this bug?
[17:14] <dholbach> we have a UK Jam too!
[17:14] <dholbach> yoohooo!
[17:14] <techno_freak> :)
[17:15] <bdmurray> techno_freak: it sounds like it can be confirmed and wishlist then
[17:15] <techno_freak> bdmurray, ok :)
[17:17] <persia> techno_freak: If it's been a problem for years, there may also be an upstream report to which you could link the bug.
[17:17] <bdmurray> I'd ask them if there is an upstream bug you can link to too.
[17:17] <techno_freak> persia, ok, will check it out.
[17:31] <tuxmaniac> aah coolness! our tag works
[17:35] <whs> hello, i'm from ThaiTeam running BugJam. I don't think we'll found any bugs in the jam. any suggestion?
[17:35] <techno_freak> whs, why so?
[17:35] <tuxmaniac> whs: as in you are trying to report bugs?
[17:35] <whs> tuxmaniac, no, I don't think we'll found any bug
[17:35] <techno_freak> whs, you can check out open unconfirmed bugs and check whether you can reproduce them :)
[17:36] <whs> techno_freak, thank you
[17:36] <whs> techno_freak, which tag?
[17:36] <techno_freak> whs, pardon me, tag?
[17:37] <whs> techno_freak, which tag that unconfirmed bugs in?
[17:37] <emma> For this bug I am thinking about giving detailed instructions to the person about how to include relevant information about their system and then marking it incomplete -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/139458
[17:37] <emma> Would that be the right thing to do?
[17:38] <emma> Detailed information about how to include relevant information in the case of sound problems.
[17:38] <techno_freak> emma, if you are asking for more info, mark it as incomplete, and yes you can give instructions for the  bug reporter on how to get the information you ask for :)
[17:38] <emma> Okay great. Thank you.
[17:38] <emma> I'll show you what I did when I get it written up.
[17:39] <emma> (rather new to this but would like to do it right :P)
[17:39] <techno_freak> techno_freak, emma, there is also a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems which you might want to refer him/her to
[17:40] <emma> Would it be a stretch to assign this one to ALSA right now?
[17:40] <emma> not assign, but rather, classify it as being with that package?
[17:42] <mcas> hello everyone
[17:43] <hggdh> whs, on launchpad.net, do an " Advanced Search" , and select stati New, Incomplete (with response), and Incomplete (without response). This will show you all non-confirmed, non-triaged bugs
[17:43] <whs> thank you
[17:44] <hggdh> you are welcome. Thank you for helping
[17:45] <emma> Guys here is what I added to that bug report, what do you think? -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/139458/comments/6
[17:45] <hggdh> emma, it is not clear it is an ALSA issue
[17:46] <hggdh> and your request is good.
[17:46] <emma> Okay. Some times knowing which package it concerns is tricky.
[17:47] <hggdh> it is... ALSA, pulseaudio, etc...
[17:50] <tuxmaniac> the GBJ wiki is getting loaded very very slowly
[17:56] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: the wiki was just upgraded a day or so ago and there's some performance issues that are being worked on
[17:56] <jcastro> ok, this "use brainstorm" stock response needs to be fleshed out more I think
[18:07]  * persia seconds jcastro, with extra whips
[18:09] <persia> Also, if an idea is well defined, and related to a specific package, I'd rather see it as a wishlist bug, for which I might merge a fix when reviewing the package.
[18:12] <emma> Are any of you bzr experts?
[18:19] <seb128> emma: try #bzr
[18:20] <emma> Well my team is having some issues with the 5-a-day application. For only one member of our team is it showing up in the tag and in the team totals, for the rest of us, only in the tag.
[18:21] <seb128> ah, that's rather a 5-a-day issue then
[18:22] <emma> Is there a channel for that?
[18:23] <persia> This is the channel for that
[18:25] <emma> We are a pretty scrappy group we will figure it out. Just thought I would see if there was a common answer :)
[18:27] <Odd-rationale> there was someone else havin the same problem. tuxmaniac i beleive it was...
[18:27] <seb128> emma: that would be a good question for dholbach but he finished his work day and is not around
[18:28] <schakrava> can someone help me find why the status of bug 255857 went back to status New?
[18:28] <Odd-rationale> seb128: i did talk to dholbach. he said one of the later pushes will do it...
[18:28] <Odd-rationale> or bzr push.
[18:28] <Odd-rationale> but that didnt work...
[18:28] <tuxmaniac> Odd-rationale: yes it was me. and stil the same
[18:28] <emma> tuxmaniac: you are dholbach?
[18:29] <Odd-rationale> somehow, i managed to get it. I don't know how...
[18:29] <Odd-rationale> see: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~odd-rationale/5-a-day-data/main/files
[18:29] <emma> tuxmaniac: sorry I read up and got more context :)
[18:29] <Odd-rationale> don't ask me what i did... i just "man bzr" and started running random commands... ;)
[18:29] <tuxmaniac> emma: I cant be dholbach :-D
[18:30] <Odd-rationale> i also posted a question on #bzr. preeety quiet there...
[18:30] <emma> wouldn't it be bzr add <what-the-name-of-team-is> ?
[18:31] <techno_freak> tags are working from 5-a-day applet, but team is not
[18:32] <Odd-rationale> techno_freak: exactly.
[18:33] <emma> techno_freak: yep that's our experience too. I wonder why. Any ideas how to fix it?
[18:34] <emma> They are working for Odd-rationale
[18:34] <techno_freak> umm?
[18:35] <emma> For some reason Odd-rationale has a team data but the rest of us don't.
[18:35] <Odd-rationale> techno_freak: yeah. see my bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~odd-rationale/5-a-day-data/main/files
[18:36] <techno_freak> i will try manually touching the file and adding the team name
[18:36] <tuxmaniac> techno_freak: I did that too
[18:36] <Odd-rationale> i'm going to file a bug report...
[18:36] <techno_freak> tuxmaniac, what happened?
[18:37] <techno_freak> Odd-rationale, please do, i will confirm it ;)
[18:37] <emma> Don't classify it though so that I can get some experiecing with triaging.
[18:37] <emma> I think this one might go with 5-a-day
[18:41] <techno_freak> tuxmaniac, successfully pushed, let me see what happens
[18:41] <tuxmaniac> techno_freak: nothing worth mentioning :)
[18:42] <emma> techno_freak: sounds great, i hope you have it. :)
[18:43] <techno_freak> no, the team file did not get added, may be i need to look at man bzr
[18:44] <bdmurray> bzr add adds a file
[18:45] <techno_freak> tried that, do i also need to do bzr commit?
[18:45] <bdmurray> yes
[18:45] <techno_freak> ok
[18:45] <techno_freak> :)
[18:45] <bdmurray> bzr add, bzr commit, bzr push
[18:47] <bdmurray> ogasawara_: bug 255955 is regarding the wireless indicator blinking in Intrepid - that's a feature right?
[18:50] <bdmurray> Okay, closed won't fix since it is a feature.
[18:52] <emma> bdmurray: i did bzr add team
[18:52] <emma> then i did bzr commit and it opened up something that looks like nano
[18:52] <emma> -----this line and the following will be ignored ---
[18:53] <emma> techno_freak: ^
[18:55] <techno_freak> emma, you have to type a commit message there
[18:55] <techno_freak> something like "adding team file"
[18:55] <techno_freak> and press Ctrl+X
[18:56] <emma> something like? heh
[18:56] <emma> Okay I'll go with that...
[18:57] <techno_freak> emma, ever used a version control system?
[18:57] <techno_freak> :)
[18:57] <emma> Never :) Not until now :)
[18:57] <emma> Okay I did control X and saved it. Do I close it now?
[18:58] <emma> File Name to Write: bzr_log.WSc9d0
[18:58] <tuxmaniac> you should type :wq to save and quit
[18:58] <techno_freak> tuxmaniac, it is not vi
[18:58] <Odd-rationale> lol. is this nano or vi?
[18:59] <techno_freak> it's nano, co Ctrl+X  and yes to save
[19:05] <bdmurray> mvo: ping
[19:11] <mvo> bdmurray: pong
[19:13] <bdmurray> mvo: I'm looking at bug 256131 and it mentions something that needs to be looked up in /etc/apt/apt.conf is that right?
[19:13] <bdmurray> APT::Never-MarkAuto_Section
[19:14] <mvo> bdmurray: I just had a quick look at the bugreort and it seems to be a bug in "rarian-compat"
[19:15] <mvo> let me comment in the bug
[19:15] <bdmurray> okay, I thought it was something they had configured
[19:15] <mvo> bdmurray: main.log usually contains a good overview what the issue is
[19:16] <mvo> apt.log is most of the time not very useful
[19:16] <mvo> (except for issues with dependency reoslution)
[19:16] <mvo> bdmurray: thanks for telling me about this one, I will reassign to rariant-compat and talk to seb maybe
[19:17] <bdmurray> mvo: thanks for your help :)
[19:17] <bdmurray> mvo: Did you see the one I mentioned the other day regarding accessing the release notes at www.ubuntu.com?
[19:22] <mvo> bdmurray: yes, I was thinking about it, its a tricky problem. we do support CD upgrades without network already, but the user has a very valid point in that the releases notes fetching should be better distributed
[19:22] <bdmurray> mvo: okay, I wasn't sure you had seen it but thought it was interesting problem
[19:23] <mvo> bdmurray: definetly, you have a good nose for the interessting bugs :)
[19:28] <m_newton> yo
[19:28] <m_newton> !netsplit
[19:29] <Pici> m_newton: ?
[19:29] <m_newton> Pici: ??
[19:29] <m_newton> lol jk sry.... just trin to be funny
[19:31] <bdmurray> pedro_: can you help with bug 226947?
[19:32] <pedro_> bdmurray: yep, let me have a look
[19:32] <bdmurray> I'm not sure what it would belong to
[19:38] <tuxmaniac> to whom should all gnumeric bugs be assigned to? any pointers?
[19:38] <tuxmaniac> I mean confirmed bugs
[19:38] <pedro_> bdmurray: alright, that's nautilus -> edit -> preferences -> media, in the previous releases the app in charge of that was gnome-volume-manager, I'll ask the reporter for more info, thanks you!
[19:38] <bdmurray> it isn't appropriate to assing bugs to people in most cases
[19:39] <pedro_> is anyone having some small flickers with the new intel driver in Intrepid?
[19:39] <tuxmaniac> bdmurray: ok
[19:40] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: assignment is used for the person/people who are actually doing the work
[19:40] <bdmurray> pedro_: there is a bug about that in yesterday's report
[19:40] <bdmurray> bug 256142
[19:40] <pedro_> wow you're fast
[19:40] <pedro_> thanks you bdmurray
[19:41]  * pedro_ installing the trunk version
[19:43] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock: yeah. confused it with something else. too many things in mind. :-)
[20:11] <afflux> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable --- what does this mean during upgrades?
[20:29] <mvo> afflux: where do you see that?
[20:29] <mvo> afflux: during a release upgrade? or a intrepid->interpid upgrade?
[20:29] <afflux> mvo: in bug 256167
[20:30] <afflux> err, this is just a normal installation, sorry.
[20:32] <mvo> afflux: its definitely a valid bug, for some reason another debocnf is running would be interessting to know if that was started by the user (possible, but not very likely) or if during the dpkg run for some reason two debconf processes got started
[20:32] <afflux> mvo: I'm not very familiar with debconf, maybe you can just go ahead and post those questions to the bug :)
[20:34] <mvo> afflux: added
[20:35] <afflux> thanks
[21:13] <nellery> bdmurray, I gave a go at creating a page for converting reports to questions
[21:13] <nellery> would you mind reviewing it
[21:13] <nellery> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NickEllery/Bugs/ConvertToQuestion
[21:14] <bdmurray> nellery: great!  I'll do that shortly
[21:15] <nellery> bdmurray, thanks :)
[21:16]  * Old_Soldier is nosey, nice job nick
[21:17] <nellery> thanks Old_Soldier
[21:18] <k4r1m> !bugs
[21:18] <k4r1m> !bugs k4r1m
[21:28] <bdmurray> nellery: I wonder about having the find open support questions linking to the ubuntu section of answers
[21:30] <alex-weej_> http://alex-weej.blogspot.com/2008/08/sucata-run-2008.html
[21:31] <alex-weej_> http://alex-weej.blogspot.com/2008/08/sucata-run-2008.html
[21:33] <bdmurray> nellery: looks great!
[21:34] <nellery> bdmurray, thanks; is there anything I should change or add?
[21:34] <bdmurray> nellery: maybe have the support questions part link to the ubuntu section of the answer tracker
[21:34] <nellery> bdmurray, alright
[21:35] <nellery> should I import this all the Bugs/ConvertToQuestion?
[21:35] <bdmurray> nellery: Absolutely!
[21:36] <sumanc> hi, can someone help explain why this bug's(255857) status changed to New automatically?
[21:36] <bdmurray> bug 255857
[21:38] <seb128> sumanc: it didn't, I do because the submitter replied but I'm too busy to check the details so I let somebody else triage it and send it to bugzilla.gnome.org
[21:38] <seb128> s/I do because/I did because
[21:39] <sumanc> oh ok, thanks. just wondering if i did anything wrong/counter productive
[21:40] <seb128> I think it's a dup to be honest
[21:40] <alex-weej_> before anyone else grills me for spam, sorry. "/amsg" works for all networks at once in X-Chat, CAUTION!
[21:40] <seb128> I've read a bunch of bug having the same topic
[21:40] <seb128> and it's likely a gstreamer issue
[21:41] <sumanc> unlike last night, i am not able to reproduce it often right now
[21:46] <sumanc> seb128: i am interested in understanding the radio streaming code of rhythmbox. using emacs with tags and reading the code
[21:47] <sumanc> any suggestions? i know how to code but kinda novice with the env and tools
[21:47] <seb128> sumanc: try to connect on irc.gimp.net and join #rhythmbox that's where the people who work on rhythmbox hang, I'm just packaging it for ubuntu
[21:47] <sumanc> thanks for the pointer!
[21:49] <td123> is there a way I can record a screen cast to record a visual bug I receive?
[21:50] <Odd-rationale> !screencaste
[21:50] <Odd-rationale> !screencast
[21:51] <td123> Odd-rationale: ty
[21:51] <Odd-rationale> np
[21:52] <td123> Odd-rationale: one more thing, how would I include the screencast in the bug report?
[21:53] <Odd-rationale> td123: i'm not sure about that one. you might be able to attach it. if not, upload it to youtube or something and give the  link.
[21:54] <td123> Odd-rationale: cool
[23:16] <mlester> hey I have been told that I have run into a bug
[23:16] <mlester> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=879360
[23:16] <mlester> I need assistance with resolving this bug
[23:18] <nellery> mlester, you should report this bug using the instructions from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[23:18] <mlester> ok so it is a bug?
[23:19] <nellery> it could be
[23:22] <mlester> cause I am just looking for someone well versed in how apt and linux networking works to help troubleshoot this
[23:23] <mlester> I can't seem to find anyone with those characteristics though
[23:24] <LaserRock> mlester: when are you getting that error?
[23:25] <mlester> apt-get update
[23:25] <mlester> after check a couple mirrors is crashes
[23:25] <LaserRock> can you use the internet otherwise?
[23:26] <LaserRock> or does it seem to be just apt?
[23:26] <mlester> I can ping google
[23:26] <mlester> so it seems that its just apt
[23:27] <bdmurray> Have you tried changing mirrors?
[23:27] <mlester> what would I changed them to
[23:27] <bdmurray> archive.ubuntu.com?
[23:27] <mlester> ok I try that and see what happens
[23:34] <mlester> ok what would I changed the security ones
[23:34] <mlester> yto
[23:34] <mlester> bdmurray
[23:35] <greg-g> mlester: if you open up synaptic you can have it change your mirrors for you automatically
[23:35] <mlester> its ubuntu server so I dont have synaptic
[23:35] <mlester> sorry for not mention that
[23:36] <mlester> mentioning*
[23:36] <greg-g> ah, gotcha
[23:36] <greg-g> security.ubuntu.com
[23:36] <bdmurray> the security ones should stay the same
[23:37] <mlester> ok cause those are gpg errors
[23:39] <mrooney> hmm, can I get python syntax highlighting on the wiki?
[23:40] <greg-g> mrooney: dunno, I would search google for "moin moin syntax highlighting"
[23:40] <bdmurray> the bughelper pages have it
[23:40] <bdmurray> mrooney: {{{#!python
[23:41] <mrooney> bdmurray: thanks! by the way, would you mind linking to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeRooney/EeeBotu in the #ubuntu-bugs-announce topic, maybe with "Information and Status: " before it or something?
[23:41] <mrooney> that way I can put status updates there, if any, and don't have to worry about bugging you for future topic changes :)
[23:42] <mlester> any cluse why this is occuring
[23:43] <mlester> clue
[23:44] <mlester> I would even give ssh access to it to see if anyone would want to look at the problem themself.  There nothing of value on the image so u could trash it and I could just bring back up a copy
[23:49] <mlester> so anyone interested
[23:54] <mrooney> mlester: you may be better off in #ubuntu, though I am not sure exactly
[23:55] <mlester> I already tried there
[23:55] <mrooney> I see.
[23:56] <mrooney> is it a bug you are experiencing? it might be appropriate to file one.
[23:57] <mlester> I am not sure
[23:57] <mlester> thats what I am trying to figure out
[23:58] <mlester> cause its apt here its been around for along time its hard to believe it would be a bug
[23:59] <mrooney> Have you tried the Ubuntu forums? That could be a good medium for asking such a question


[15:54] <pavlushka> Hello Bangladesh!!!
[16:28] <pavlushka> oops, hi everyone!!!
[16:43] <Kilos> lol
[16:43] <Kilos> oops what
[16:46] <pavlushka> Kilos: nothing, just trying to be funny.
[16:47] <Kilos> looks like it
[17:46] <Ekushey> Good morning belkinsa :)
[17:47] <Kilos> hi Ekushey belkinsa
[17:49] <belkinsa> o/ all
[17:57] <pavlushka> its belkinsa , \o/!
[17:58] <pavlushka> How are you belkinsa !
[17:58] <belkinsa> pavlushka: I'm fine, but busy.
[17:58] <pavlushka> ok, not a problem, :)
[17:59] <pavlushka> see ya, goodnight!
[18:00] <belkinsa> Slapwell, pavlushka.
[18:00] <pavlushka> lol!
[18:00] <pavlushka> you too, belkinsa !


[00:01] <Guest23784> Is there anybody here who could help me with manual compiling and installing of openssl version 1.0.0f on ubuntu compiled before heartbleed vulnerability. I have read docs but am still unsuccessful "make: *** [install_docs] Error 255". Im just really stuck and annoyed after trying 2-3 days.
[00:02] <networkadmin> Any direction anyone can point me would be great "Guest23784"
[00:07] <teward> networkadmin, it'd be helpful if you had provided us with more logs
[00:07] <teward> the error's probably listed in those somewhere
[00:07] <networkadmin> Thanks, ill provide you with what I can get. sec
[00:11] <networkadmin> Im going to come back with as much details as I can later. All I have at the moment is this
[00:11] <networkadmin> cms.pod around line 457: Expected text after =item, not a number
[00:11] <networkadmin> cms.pod around line 461: Expected text after =item, not a number
[00:11] <networkadmin> cms.pod around line 465: Expected text after =item, not a number
[00:11] <networkadmin> cms.pod around line 470: Expected text after =item, not a number
[00:11] <networkadmin> cms.pod around line 474: Expected text after =item, not a number
[00:11] <networkadmin> POD document had syntax errors at /usr/bin/pod2man line 71.
[00:11] <networkadmin> make: *** [install_docs] Error 255
[00:12] <teward> !pastebin
[00:15] <networkadmin> Sorry, ill be sure not to do that again. Before I go and investigate this a little more, since compiling openssl requires perl, should I be concerned about perl setting locale errors? http://paste.ubuntu.com/7449955/
[00:21] <xeno_> Okay, we finally got the command in, and update-manager-core is latest version.
[00:21] <xeno_> But apt doesn't see a do-release-upgrade.
[00:21] <xeno_> Direct command says no new release found.
[00:41] <xeno_> Can anyone tell me how to get my Terminals to have the full set of control buttons, like full page, minimize, disappear?  All I have is the x button now for deletion.
[00:41] <fun> apt-get purge desktop
[00:41] <fun> to remove it
[00:42] <fun> then install again
[00:43] <xeno_> Ok.  I'll try that.
[00:46] <xeno_> Can anyone tell me what the command is to get a full list of --config options for the present machine for update-alternativers --config?
[01:08] <xeno_> Can anyone tell me what the command is to get a full list of --config options for the present machine for update-alternativers --config?
[01:23] <DefunctProcessZZ> is there no minidlna package in the repos?
[01:30] <pleia2> DefunctProcessZZ: there used to be, looks like it was synced from debian and debian has since dropped it from testing, so it never made it over for 14.04
[01:30] <pleia2> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minidlna
[01:32] <pleia2> issues here: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/minidlna.html
[01:38] <DefunctProcessZZ> pleia2: ty
[01:39] <pleia2> DefunctProcessZZ: sure thing, I use it as well so that's good to know
[04:43] <Sebas_> hey! :)
[04:43] <Sebas_> someone knows if there is a all-in-one openstack install other than devstack ?
[05:03] <Macer> is there anythign similar to fbsd jails in ubuntu ?
[05:03] <Macer> something that isn't just a chroot
[05:03] <sarnold> Macer: lxc https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/lxc.html
[05:04] <Macer> oh.
[05:04] <Macer> sarnold: awesome thanks
[05:04] <sarnold> Macer: this may be a nicer introduction: https://www.stgraber.org/2013/12/20/lxc-1-0-blog-post-series/
[05:04] <Macer> that's great :) appreciate it
[07:00] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:50] <pmatulis> morning
[10:53] <lordievader> Hey pmatulis
[12:37] <championofcyrodi> Hello.  Curious if anyone has seen this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1316320
[12:38] <patdk-wk> nope, works for me
[12:39] <championofcyrodi> I'm thinking perhaps because the ubuntu server does not have unity desktop installed, the thick client is failing to start the process(es) on the terminal server to support the LDM session controls.
[12:40] <championofcyrodi> it seems like almost all processes run locally on a thick/fat client... However, since users are authenticated on the terminal server, I'm trying to understand how the client image is supposed to authenticate users when the screen locks, etc.  Anyone know where these logs are?
[12:40] <championofcyrodi> (for LTSP clients)
[12:51] <gigirock> Hi all. I have a 64 bit server 14.04 updated. I need ssh login as root. I already edited sshd_config with 'PermitRootLogin yes' but nothing is changed ,since i have always 'acces denied' trying to login from a putty client on win7 machine on the same lan network
[12:52] <championofcyrodi> gigirock:  is there anything in /var/log/syslog ?
[12:52] <championofcyrodi> sorry, /var/log/auth.log
[12:57] <gigirock> ..mmmmh meeting
[13:28] <lunaphyte_> hi.  i have a number of computers on which i've noticed that i can never get /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail higher than 4067.  i'm wondering how i might be able to figure out why this is
[13:29] <lunaphyte_> the symptom is that, when using haveged with -w 4096, haveged ends up consuming 100% cpu
[13:32] <patdk-wk> hmm, the kernel only has 4k entropy buffer
[13:32] <patdk-wk> so >4000 is basically 100% full
[13:33] <lunaphyte_> ah, interesting.
[13:33] <patdk-wk> normally, I just shoot for 2k full
[13:33] <lunaphyte_> yeah.  i was just playing around, experimenting
[13:35] <lunaphyte_> where is there documentation of the kernel's entropy buffer, specifically its size?
[13:36] <bitbyte_> hey guys, im trying to figure out how to rename files in bulk to take out “pt “ any ideas on where to start
[13:37] <remix_tj> bitbyte_: man rename
[13:37] <lunaphyte_> cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize says 4096 here
[13:37] <lunaphyte_> "The read-only file entropy_avail gives the available entropy.  Normally, this will be 4096 (bits), a full entropy pool."
[13:37] <lunaphyte_> "The file poolsize gives the size of the entropy pool."
[14:33] <xerxas> Hi all ! I want tu mkfs.btrfs a block device but I get "Device or resource busy"
[14:33] <xerxas> the device isn't mounted, lsof doesn't see any open files on the device
[14:33] <xerxas> the device is for now an ext3 and was mounted , the only thing I find is a kernel thread named [jbd2/xvdb-8]
[14:34] <xerxas> is it the culprit process for the device being busy ? how do I stop it ?
[14:40] <BLZbubba> is it part of an mdraid or anything like that?
[14:42] <BLZbubba> ok what is the fastest way to transfer a file between two machines, that isn't painful to set up?  I have a 40 gigabit network but my usual transfer methods like scp, wget, even netcat are CPU bound due to being single threaded
[14:42] <BLZbubba> so far nfs is the winner, believe it or not, but it is annoying to go through that when I just want scp
[14:44] <patdk-wk> heh?
[14:45] <patdk-wk> well, ya, nfs should be the fastest, expecially if you support nfs/rdma
[14:45] <tomixxx7> hi, i have two nics in my server pc: eth0 and eth1. i have only configured eth1 in "etc/network/interfaces", however, i get my ip and i-net access always from eth0! how is that possible?
[14:45] <patdk-wk> other options is ssh+hpa
[14:45] <patdk-wk> BLZbubba, and did you properly tune your tcp stack at both ends?
[14:47] <rbasak> BLZbubba: that's a good question. I imagine something like netcat that can use sendfile(2) would be the fastest. I don't know of any such tool, though.
[14:47] <rbasak> Sounds like it could be a useful addition to socat.
[14:48] <BLZbubba> patdk-wk: yeah it works pretty well with things like iperf and nfs
[14:48] <BLZbubba> time to google for socat
[14:48] <rbasak> socat is sort of like a multilingual netcat on steroids.
[14:53] <genii> tomixxx7: Probably because you still have the stanzas in there like "auto eth0" and possibly "iface eth0 inet dhcp"
[14:54] <tomixxx7> genii: no, definity not. i have only configured "auto eth1 \n iface eth1 inet static ... "
[14:54] <tomixxx7> genii: now i have removed the cable from eth0 and now everythings works fine with eth1
[15:04] <tomixxx7> genii: strange, not? ^^
[15:05] <genii> tomixxx7: It's unusual, yes.
[15:08] <DenBeiren> I am trying to configure a bond on my 12.04 server
[15:08] <DenBeiren> i'm using this config : http://pastie.org/9168848 but it doesn't seem to work
[15:08] <DenBeiren> any hints on where i am going wrong?
[15:23] <patdk-wk> DenBeiren, bond-slaves none
[15:24] <DenBeiren> on the last line?
[15:24] <patdk-wk> I guess
[15:25] <patdk-wk>  but as the whole thing is commented out, not likely to work
[15:25] <DenBeiren> i know,.. but i have two scenario's in my conf file,.. one is failsafe, one is testing bond :-)
[15:32] <DenBeiren> patdk-wk: tried and restarting network
[15:33] <DenBeiren> patdk-wk: works!!
[15:33] <DenBeiren> thanks
[15:52] <rbasak> lutostag: fancy taking a look at bug 1318660? Seems to me it might be a good bug to get started with maas packaging.
[15:53] <lutostag> rbasak: sure thing
[15:54] <rbasak> Thanks!
[17:05] <zop_> Hello
[17:06] <zop_> I have just aquired a HP microserver g7 nl54
[17:06] <zop_> and i was wondering if ubuntu 12.04 server would work on it?
[17:06] <zop_> Also HP seems to provide some BIOS update
[17:06] <zop_> http://h20565.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/psi/swdDetails/?sp4ts.oid=5336618&spf_p.tpst=swdMain&spf_p.prp_swdMain=wsrp-navigationalState%3Didx%253D4%257CswItem%253DMTX_57720d956df94dfcbaa0e28256%257CswEnvOID%253D4168%257CitemLocale%253D%257CswLang%253D%257Cmode%253D4%257Caction%253DdriverDocument&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.v
[17:06] <zop_> ignette.cachetoken
[17:07] <zop_> It seems to only fix something related to windows server, so i woudnt be needing that right??
[17:08] <sarnold> heh, I've already visited a newegg.com page about that little machine. probably one of my pals bought one to run ubuntu on it. looks promising.
[17:13] <zop_> So yay?
[17:13] <zop_> I say one forum post saying it runs so i am just curios
[17:13] <sarnold> probably yay :) if 12.04 LTS doesn't work 14.04 LTS really should work.
[17:14] <zop_> what about 12.10
[17:14] <zop_> ?
[17:14] <zop_> Is it even out?
[17:14] <sarnold> 12.04 is slightly complicated by the different point releases that have been made since initial release, those include newer hardware enablement kernels; the first 12.04 images didn't support secure-boot systems, but newer ones should..
[17:14] <sarnold> zop_: 12.10 has only supported for another four days
[17:15] <sarnold> me english good :)
[17:15] <sarnold> zop_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[17:15] <zop_> Oh wow
[17:15] <zop_> Thanks for that!
[17:15] <zop_> So wait
[17:15] <zop_> How do i find out if my box has secure boot?
[17:16] <sarnold> your best choices are 12.04 if you're relatively conservative or 14.04 if you're a slight touch more adventurous or don't want to upgrade again in another two years.. :) hehe
[17:16] <sarnold> zop_: probably it'll be an option in the bios that you can turn on or off; not all systems let you turn it off, so those may not put it in the bios..
[17:16] <fridaynext> when ubuntu says a system restart is required, are the kernel updates that necessitate that usually security related?
[17:17] <zop_> Ok thanks
[17:17] <zop_> I would love to install libre boot on it
[17:17] <zop_> since i dont trust whats in there
[17:20] <sarnold> fridaynext: I suspect every kernel update includes security updates, but I'm not 100% positive of that. of course different bugs have different chances of exploitability, but iirc the most recent kernel includes an update for a vulnerability with an exploit already available
[17:20] <fridaynext> thanks sarnold.
[17:21] <fridaynext> Just wondering when the best time is to reboot my server, since most of the sites on it get pretty good traffic, especially at night.
[17:21] <fridaynext> and it seems there are more and more kernel updates lately.
[17:21] <zop_> While on topic, would it be possible to install 12.04, on a fresh box, with no screen?
[17:21] <zop_> i.e: do the actuall install headless?
[17:22] <sarnold> zop_: does that little machine do someting like integrated lights out or some other mechanism to e.g. serial console or vnc to it?
[17:22] <dasjoe> The N54L does not come with ILO
[17:22] <sarnold> zop_: there may be other options but I know even less about those...
[17:22] <dasjoe> It's an optional PCI(e?)-card
[17:22] <zop_> i dont think so
[17:22] <sarnold> fridaynext: best would be to have multiple machines you could update in a rolling fashion..
[17:22] <dasjoe> zop_: Why do you want to install 12.04 when 14.04 has been released by now? :)
[17:22] <zop_> So i am best of just sticking a cable in it and doing it by screen i guesss
[17:23] <zop_> sarnold	your best choices are 12.04 if you're relatively conservative or 14.04 if you're a slight touch more adventurous or don't want to upgrade again in another two years..hehe
[17:23] <dasjoe> zop_: I have had good success with my N54L, as a matter of fact I'm working on it right now
[17:23] <fridaynext> sarnold: interesting.
[17:23] <zop_> Hey
[17:23] <zop_> Because of that
[17:23] <zop_> Did you do the BIOS update?
[17:23] <zop_> The one on the HP website
[17:24] <dasjoe> Yes, I applied that update
[17:24] <zop_> The one that needs to go to a USB key yes?
[17:24] <zop_> Also are you using 32 bit or 64 bit?
[17:24] <dasjoe> All HP BIOS updates I did installed from a USB key, yes
[17:25] <dasjoe> zop_: I'm running a 64 bit 14.04 on a ZFS / on it, I've got 4 GB RAM in the box
[17:25] <zop_> Do you know what the bios update actually fixes?
[17:25] <zop_> yes i am sticking 8GB in it
[17:25] <sarnold> dasjoe: zfs / ? ooooo
[17:25] <zop_> so i should go with 64 bit?
[17:27] <sarnold> zop_: yeah, 64bit is probably the best choice these days, it enables so many cool CPU features that the slight size increase of pointers is usually outweighed by better performance all around
[17:27] <zop_> Also why would i want ZFS? Never heard about it, just reading about it now
[17:27] <zop_> Ok
[17:27] <dasjoe> zop_: there's no reason not to use 64 bit software on machines which support it
[17:27] <zop_> btw, this is basically going to be a torrent/media box
[17:27] <zop_> download stuff and serve it up to my raspebery pi
[17:27] <zop_> pis*
[17:28] <dasjoe> zop_: ZFS is a "next-generation" file system with integrated checksums and other nice stuff. I've been using it for a while, but you're probably better off with a normal Ubuntu Server installation, as in / as ext4
[17:28] <zop_> ahh yes
[17:28] <sarnold> zop_: zfs helps protect against bit rot and dead drives by providing redundancy and checksumming, and because it is a copy-on-write filesystem it can cheaply provide snapshots and sending and receiving filesystem updates. it's pretty cool stuff, but since it is an add-on module for linux, it isn't easy to use it for root filesystems
[17:29] <zop_> Yes i am just reading about, sounds nice! i think il skip it for this box
[17:29] <zop_> hey dasjoe does 14.04 require any tweaking or fixing on the microserver?
[17:30] <dasjoe> zop_: no, a plain install worked out of the box
[17:31] <zop__> Hello sorry my conection got reset
[17:31] <sarnold> zop__: you may have missed ths: < dasjoe> zop_: no, a plain install worked out of the box
[17:31] <zop__> Thx!
[17:31] <zop__> sweet!
[17:31] <zop__> So is there any reason why i shouldnt use 14.04?
[17:32] <sarnold> zop__: I intend on using zfs "soon" but I don't think I'll go to the effort of using it for the root filesystem; I'll just use it for a pile of storage mounted after the system is up and running. it isn't as awesome as it could be but it feels like it'll be far easier to maintain over the years.
[17:32] <zop__> Be aware that i have been using linux not for very long :(
[17:32] <dasjoe> zop_: if you want to play with ZFS: install Ubuntu 12.04 or, better, 14.04 on a USB stick that's plugged into the on-board slot and use ZFS on your data disks
[17:32] <sarnold> zop__: I'd start with 14.04 myself; it's newer and nicer :)
[17:32] <zop__> Does it have all that amazon/canonical crap tho?
[17:32] <sarnold> zop__: what's that?
[17:32] <zop__> Something about sending your searches out?
[17:33] <dasjoe> sarnold: we're in #zfsonlinux if you need any help or want to discuss about that ;)
[17:33] <sarnold> zop__: you can turn off the internet searches if you wish -- and as a server user, you wouldn't see it anyhow :)
[17:33] <zop__> http://www.enqlu.com/2014/03/how-to-disable-amazonproduct.html
[17:33] <sarnold> dasjoe: oh thanks for the reminder :) my pandaboard died and I forgot to re-join the zfs channels in my laptop's irssi config...
[17:33] <zop__> Ugh what a shame that Ubuntu sold out :(
[17:34] <zop__> Is the crapeware present in the 12.04 also?
[17:34] <dasjoe> sarnold: oh right, I thought I knew your nickname
[17:34] <sarnold> dasjoe: and likewish I figured I only knew you from here. go figure. :)
[17:35] <dasjoe> zop__: Ubuntu has not "sold out" any more than Mozilla did. You can easily deactivate the amazon stuff.  Yes i going to go for a v light GUI anyways
[17:36] <zop__> Is it easy to remove the one there is an install another one?
[17:36] <sarnold> zop__: imho the idea behind a 'smart search' button is pretty cool, but the first release should have shipped with ten search providers rather than just amazon. it'd have been harder to hate a 'search internet' button.. :)
[17:37] <zop__> Yeah, no sorry i think its crap and i dont know why you would ever want something integrated like that.
[17:38] <zop__> Hey dasjoe, what did you choose from here
[17:38] <zop__> http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/public/psi/swdHome/?sp4ts.oid=4310887
[17:38] <zop__> ?
[17:38] <sarnold> zop__: if you do put a gui on you can easily install new ones; e.g. apt-get install ubuntu-desktop or apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop or apt-get install kde-standard or apt-get install lxde or whatever you want
[17:38] <zop__> Yes lxde is what i was after
[17:38] <zop__> Simple and light
[17:39] <sarnold> or just 'apt-get install ion3' or dwm or whatever if you don't even want the overhead of a "desktop environment"
[17:40] <zop__> What do you mean by overhead?
[17:40] <dasjoe> zop__: you could just use Xubuntu's installation medium if you wanted Xubuntu. Or Lubuntu's iso. But that's not really "Ubuntu Server", which names a very specific installation medium
[17:40] <sarnold> zop__: well, apple's "siri" and google's "google now" are quite popular features :) so I'm not surprised we're offering something similar but much more configurable -- users can turn on or off individual search backends or write their own. try that with siri or google now :)
[17:40] <dasjoe> zop__: I've used a direct link, this one http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib2/software1/pubsw-windows/p1657370250/v93269/SP64420.exe
[17:40] <zop__> Thanks!
[17:42] <zop__> Well, all i am trying to do is download torrents, do some renaming (bash scrypts+chron), server the movies to two raspery pies
[17:42] <zop__> Is an ubuntu server 14.04 install excessive then?
[17:43] <zop__> I am also thinking of setting up and FTP or HTTP transfer, so friends/familly can log in and download (or stream??) what they want
[17:43] <zop__> What do you think?
[17:43] <sudormrf> Hey guys, not sure if this is the right place for this, if not please forgive me, but do any of you guys have a recommendation for a web based administration type software of ubuntu server?
[17:43] <dasjoe> zop__: no, it's just an installation that's tailored to server tasks
[17:44] <sarnold> zop__: the 'server' install will be nice and small, anything else will be extraneous to server tasks :) but from any of the installers you can get to more or less identical outputs, it's just a matter of apt-get installing or apt-get purging different packages.
[17:44] <sarnold> zop__: Avoid FTP. it's horrible. httpd is alright, and if you want to allow people to upload to you, I'd recommend using sftp instead.
[17:45] <zop__> No on upload just download
[17:45] <sarnold> sudormrf: most seem to be a vector for remote exploits. I'd avoid them all.
[17:45] <zop__> Yes i am still looking at my options atm
[17:45] <sarnold> zop__: cool, that's easier. :) apache or nginx for simple, owncloud if you want something fancier..
[17:45] <sudormrf> sarnold, suppose said server was not exposed to the internets?
[17:46] <sarnold> sudormrf: that helps :)
[17:46] <sudormrf> sarnold, lol.  so suggestions for something that will do this?  I don't mind using the CLI, but for simple tasks it is easier to just click a link than ssh in issue commands.
[17:47] <sarnold> sudormrf: do you have ssh keys and ssh-agent configured? that might make using ssh less distasteful..
[17:47] <dasjoe> sudormrf: that depends on what you want to do from the web, I'd not use one at all but if you absolutely must use one: check out Zentyal or Webmin
[17:48] <sarnold> sudormrf: sorry, no suggestions -- my distaste is strong enough I never looked at their actual merits :)
[17:48] <sudormrf> dasjoe, looking at zentyal now.  I hear webmin isn't supported :).
[17:48] <sudormrf> sarnold, no worries :).
[17:48] <sudormrf> this is just a home media server.  so not really doing a whole lot with it
[17:49] <dasjoe> sudormrf: Zentyal comes as a complete package, though. So you're (probably) better off doing a fresh install using their installer (which is based on 13.10, as of now)
[17:49] <zop__> I think i am going to go with 14.04 Ubuntu
[17:50] <zop__> and then remove the stuff i dont need and install lxde
[17:50] <sudormrf> dasjoe, yeah that is what it was looking like.  Which I kind of want to avoid.  oh well :).
[17:50] <zop__> Just because i have never used Lubuntu and "Unlike Ubuntu, Lubuntu 12.04 is not a LTS, this version will be supported for 18 months. However, a lot of work has been done to improve the stability of the system"
[17:52] <dasjoe> zop__: you could install a normal Ubuntu Server, then use tasksel to add Lubuntu or Xubuntu
[17:53] <zop__> That is news to be, i think i have some more reading to do :/
[17:53] <zop__> never hread of tasksel
[17:53] <zop__> Looks neat tho
[17:54] <dasjoe> zop__: it's just a nice helper to install some packages
[17:55] <zop__> So i would just do a regular server install and then use tasklet to customise it?
[17:55] <sudormrf> dasjoe, with Zentyal you can install normal ubuntu packages, right?
[17:55] <zop__> Does it matter that Lubuntu only goes up 12.04
[17:55] <dasjoe> sudormrf: yes, it's based on a normal Ubuntu
[17:55] <bekks> zop__: Lubuntu goes up to 14.04
[17:55] <zop__> Oh
[17:56] <xibalba> what can i use, thats lightweight, to fire off emails form the command line? the apt pkg `mail-utils` seems to install everything until the sun
[17:56] <zop__> Thanks!
[17:56] <zop__> Well i am gonna start by doing that BIOS upgrade, let see how that goes :)
[17:57] <zop__> Is it littarly: Make the USB, plug in and turn on and go threw the options?
[17:57] <zop__> for the BIOS upgrade that is
[17:57] <sudormrf> dasjoe, cool.  I am going to toss it in to a VM and see how I like it.
[17:57] <xibalba> what happened to just `mail -s foo<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:59] <sarnold> xibalba: 'mail' requires a MTA such as postfix or exim or sendmail to be installed and properly configured; if you don't have that yet, it will look like the entire world is being installed..
[17:59] <xibalba> i have other boxes already running my MTAs, I dont need another MTA on this box :/
[17:59] <dasjoe> zop__: the BIOS update is even simpler. Run their installer to put it on a USB stick, plug it into the N54L, start it and wait until it's completed
[17:59] <zop__> Ok thanks!
[17:59] <xibalba> i just stumbled on `sendemail` that may be a suitable fit
[18:00] <zop__> Well i am off to try it out, thakns for the help and patience!
[18:00] <zop__> peace!
[18:00] <sarnold> xibalba: your MTA on that machine may just hand off to the other mcahine..
[18:00] <sarnold> zop__: have fun :)
[18:00] <xibalba> yes, but its uncessary
[18:01] <sarnold> oh nice, sendemail on my system didn't drag in any other dependencies
[18:02] <xibalba> this is sufficient, root@sh:/var/log# sendemail -f<EMAIL_ADDRESS>-t<EMAIL_ADDRESS>-u foo -m bar -s zcs
[18:02] <dasjoe> xibalba: check out nullmailer
[18:02] <xibalba> dasjoe, cool i'll take a gander
[18:13] <zop__> Hey dasjoe
[18:14] <zop__> I always get bad volume label when i try and use the utility to make the USB bios thingy? any ideas?
[18:14] <zop__> I renamed it already, the usb is formated to a primary partition in FAT32
[18:14] <dasjoe> zop__: use a fresh USB stick?  Remove the stick's partition table, plug it into your Windows box and give it to HP's tool? Iirc that's what I did
[18:16] <xibalba> dasjoe, you work as an IT Admin?
[18:17] <dasjoe> xibalba: yes, you could say that
[18:18] <xibalba> the domain you're coming from is a good organization
[18:19] <zop_> I still get bad volume label :s
[18:23] <zop_> any ideas?
[18:24] <zop_> Changed USB device stiill getting bad volume label
[18:25] <RoyK> zop_: are there any data on the thing?
[18:26] <zop_> The first one i cleared it
[18:26] <zop_> the second one there was stuff
[18:27] <Tazmain> hi all how do I enable the mod_proxy for apache2 ? I do no see it in mods-aviable
[18:28] <xibalba> maybe the pkg wasn't installed
[18:28] <zop_> ugh tried NTFS nothing still
[18:30] <wastl> zop_ as far as it got assigned a device you could try overwriting it with zeroes or random
[18:30] <zop_> huh?
[18:30] <wastl> zop_ like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/yourusbstick
[18:30] <zop_> I am on windows atm musing minitool partition
[18:30] <wastl> oh ok
[18:30] <wastl> didn't see that
[18:30] <dasjoe> Tazmain: "a2enmod proxy" should work
[18:31] <zop_> I can boot from my linux but i rather not imo
[18:31] <wastl> what do you want to do with your stick?
[18:31] <zop_> Trying to install the BIOS upgrade utilitx provided by HP for my G7 microserver
[18:31] <wastl> oh ok
[18:31] <wastl> hm
[18:32] <Tazmain> dasjoe, I keep getting no protocol handle was valid. if you are using a DSO version of Mod_proxy make sure the proxy submodules are included.
[18:33] <dasjoe> Tazmain: a2enmod proxy_http?
[18:33] <Tazmain> dasjoe, did that as well
[18:33] <RoyK> zop_: try to create the filesystem from linux after doing a wee bit of dd'ing
[18:34] <zop_> Is there no way to do it under windows? i dont really trustmyself on it lol
[18:35] <wastl> hm
[18:35] <sarnold> Tazmain: do you need to apt-get install a new package for it?
[18:35] <RoyK> zop_: from linux, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/yourdev bs=1M count=1k # that'll nuke the fs from the stick
[18:35] <Tazmain> sarnold, cant find that package
[18:35] <RoyK> zop_: then mkfs -t vfat -n yourlabel /dev/yourdev
[18:36] <dasjoe> No need to mkfs, HP's tool will do that
[18:36] <sarnold> Tazmain: ah, sure enough the mod_proxy_*.so files are in apache2-bin .. sorry
[18:36] <wastl> maybe you could use something like hdshredder to zero it zop_
[18:37] <wastl> this is available for windows too
[18:37] <wastl> or bootable as standalone
[18:38] <RoyK> dasjoe: just wondered if linux and HP disagreed on something, and therefore suggested making the fs from linux
[18:39] <dasjoe> RoyK: he wants to flash a new BIOS, and he's on Windows right now. HP supplies BIOS updates as windows binaries which write FreeDOS and their flashing tools to a USB stick
[18:41] <RoyK> dasjoe: ah - missed that
[18:42] <RoyK> can't most bioses read from usb sticks directly these days?
[18:43] <wastl> heh I knew IBM Server which you had to boot from a cd and then supply bios updates on a stick to it xD
[18:44] <wastl> and those donÄt have only one bios to update
[18:44] <wastl> xD
[18:44] <RoyK> having to use DOS in 2014 is somewhat wierd :P
[18:45] <wastl> ack
[18:45] <sarnold> I'm sure any day now they'll start sending along disk images of a linux 1.2.13-based system to do their firmware updates :)
[18:46] <wastl> IBM and HP do use linux on their update cds
[18:46] <wastl> you boot from those and get an X gui :D
[18:47] <sarnold> oo :)
[18:58] <RoyK> sarnold: [offtopic] my first linux was 1.1.59, slackware 2.1 IIRC. Not *very* stable ;)
[18:58] <sarnold> RoyK: nice! :D
[18:58] <wastl> mine was a slackware with kernel 1.0
[18:59] <wastl> but already ELF
[18:59] <wastl> *g*
[18:59] <sarnold> heh, that was my first thought, you guys probably saw the ELF transistion; it was well underway by the time I joined up
[19:02] <qman__> One of my new boards has a feature in the bios to go online, download the latest one, and install it
[19:02] <qman__> No OS or media required
[19:05] <qman__> You can also use local media if desired, really well thought out design
[19:14] <zop_> Still getting the damn bad volume
[19:14] <zop_> tried dd tried making it NTFS, FAT32 nothing
[19:14] <zop_> anyone got any ideas?
[20:41] <user_> cabars
[20:41] <user_> Hey, anyone have had experience with snort ?
[20:44] <BLZbubba> i set it up once a few years ago
[21:26] <sarnold> zop_: fat16?
[21:26] <sarnold> qman__: dang that does sound convenient :)
[21:26] <sarnold> qman__: .. and a bit scary
[21:26] <zop_> huh?
[21:26] <zop_> oh
[21:26] <zop_> sorry
[21:26] <sarnold> zop_: you're not having success with fat32 or ntfs, maybe fat16 would work okay?
[21:26] <zop_> dasjoe gave me an image i got it working
[21:27] <sarnold> cool! :)
[21:27] <zop_> wel i have not tried it just yet
[21:27] <zop_> no VGA cable....
[21:27] <zop_> so stupid
[21:27] <zop_> While on topic
[21:27] <zop_> I was looking for a GPU to stick inside
[21:27] <zop_> So far everything seems to point to
[21:27] <zop_> http://www.amazon.fr/XFX-HD5450-graphique-G-DDR3-PCI-Express/dp/B004TCM634/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399926758&sr=8-1&keywords=XFX+5450
[21:28] <zop_> Any thoughts/reccomendation? It has to be kind of cheap, supported, and small ish to fit inside
[21:28] <Patrickdk> your in the wrong channel?
[21:29] <Patrickdk> we don't know about video cards in here
[21:30] <Patrickdk> though, I will say, I use several of these
[21:30] <Patrickdk> http://www.amazon.fr/Gainward-GeForce-graphique-Nvidia-Express/dp/B004UQNF52/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=0KF33982S2PVTC0XPX5D
[21:30] <BLZbubba> how cheap and what features
[21:30] <BLZbubba> i just got a 650 gtx for $100 and it rocks
[21:30] <BLZbubba> htpc has a 210 which is fine for vdpau
[21:31] <Patrickdk> yuk, vdpau
[21:31] <BLZbubba> compared to what?
[21:31] <Patrickdk> cpu based decode
[21:32] <Patrickdk> vdpau has lots of limits, and if the video stream isn't perfect, well, like atsc
[21:33] <BLZbubba> i have been using vdpau for a long time and it works very well
[21:33] <Patrickdk> I used it for a week or two, went back to cpu only decode
[21:33] <Patrickdk> also don't think vdpau supports 10bit yet
[21:33] <BLZbubba> no way my cpu could decode h264 1080p
[21:34] <Patrickdk> why? it's not that hard
[21:34] <BLZbubba> atom 330
[21:38] <Patrickdk> I'm currently using core2duo's
[21:38] <Patrickdk> but they will probably get upgraded soon
[21:56] <zop_> no is my card compatible with ubuntu?
[22:02] <Macer> wow. lxc is awesome
[22:03] <ciastek> it is
[23:34] <xibalba> whats lxc
[23:36] <sarnold> xibalba: lxc is a lightweight linux containers mechanism, similar to solaris zones, fbsd jails, openvz or linux-vservers
[23:36] <xibalba> ah, i know jails
[23:36] <xibalba> is it akin to docker?
[23:37] <sarnold> xibalba: I haven't looked much into docker, sorry
[23:37] <sarnold> I believe docker does use some of the same underlying linux systemcalls though
[23:37] <xibalba> are you near okalahoma city sarnold ?
[23:38] <sarnold> but I don't know if docker works above lxc or has no relationship to lxc.. hehe
[23:38] <sarnold> xibalba: no, near portland oregon
[23:38] <xibalba> ah man, one of the places i want to visit
[23:39] <xibalba> how's the tech industry up there? plenty of jobs?
[23:39] <sarnold> when you do, check out multnomah falls :)
[23:39] <xibalba> h o m g
[23:39] <xibalba> wow
[23:39] <xibalba> ty, book marked that
[23:39] <sarnold> xibalba: portland feels like a center of linux, between ibm and intel out here there's a large linux focus. iirc puppetlabs is also in portland, and ora (often? always?) hosts their Open Source conference here
[23:40] <xibalba> im in hot sandy eggo
[23:40] <sarnold> haha
[23:40] <xibalba> 92F now
[23:40] <sarnold> the land of always-nice weather? :)
[23:40] <sarnold> ouch
[23:40] <sarnold> not so nice
[23:41] <xibalba> nice most of the time
[23:42] <xibalba> need more rain
[23:42] <xibalba> the closer you get to the coast the nicer it is
[23:43] <sarnold> ahhh if it's rain you want.. :) (actually, this winter had surprisingly long stretches of wonderful weather; normally november-june is all rain.)


 Hello i am planning to install linux system on my low spec laptop but i am confused between lubuntu and xubuntu which one should i install (i will mostly use visual studio, android studio, wifi, bluetooth, built in camera for zoom,) … My pc spec are 4GB RAM, Intel Pentium, 1TB HDD
[07:05] <guiverc> @ShuvamTheBeast, this isn't a support channel.  Maybe use #lubuntu or a support channel