[06:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:19] <nixtux> Morning
[08:36] <mungbean_> my wheely bins didn't even blow over
[08:36] <mungbean_> and the trains are cancelled until after 9am
[08:36] <MooDoo> mungbean_: one of mine did last night, but I moved it so it wouldn't
[08:37] <mungbean_> i put mine out on the street for collection, half expected to find it embedded in car windscreen
[08:37] <diplo_> Ripped the lock off my back gate and a fence panel, was a tad blowy
[08:55] <AlanBell> snapped the bolt on my gate, and knocked a few fence pannels down
[09:02] <mungbean_> no trains until 10am now
[09:11] <popey> No damage here
[09:25] <shauno> no damage here, just a whole lot of sideways water
[09:26] <MooDoo> nothing up hear either, just a bit rainy.
[09:27] <mungbean_> it was really going some at 6am
[09:27] <mungbean_> thought the trees were gonna go over
[09:27] <gordonjcp> it was pretty wet here
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, that's been a good weekend for sleep. NOT.
[09:33] <AlanBell> got all your trees still TheOpenSourcerer?
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yesterday on in-laws pull out sofa bed - horrendously uncomfortable.
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Tonight woke up about 3am and didn;t go back to sleep/
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, it would appear so.
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> I did think one looked decidedly unstable around 5am but it held up.
[09:34] <AlanBell> I have just come in from fixing the back gate shut
[09:34] <SuperMatt> wearing my saucy shirt today \o/
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> How was the wedding of the decade?
[09:35] <AlanBell> very good
[09:35]  * TheOpenSourcerer has yet to venture down the footpath to see if the wobbly fence is still there or not.
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> cool.
[09:39] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Animation Day! :-D
[09:40] <SuperMatt> ooh, I like animation
[09:42] <JamesTait> Me too, but I'mpretty useless at it.
[09:43] <JamesTait> Here is my contribution; it's roughly 15 years old: http://ubuntuone.com/11S3Ddg1gWb2QgCacXB4jP
[09:45] <Myrtti> OH MY GAWD, it's a bright light phenomena! What is this sorcery, have Witches of Cambridgeshire done their magic?
[09:45] <Myrtti> I thought it was supposed to be miserable whole day!
[09:45] <SuperMatt> so, who here is skipping work today?
[09:45] <popey> \o/ WFH
[09:46] <mungbean_> my train service start time has gone from 9->10->12
[09:46] <mungbean_> so game over regarding going in
[09:46] <mungbean_> don't have my work laptop though
[09:46] <mungbean_> and i'm gonna find it hard to reseat that 10gb card that aint working
[09:47] <AlanBell> I might go to the office later, I was all prepared for working from home, but it looks OK out now
[09:47] <JamesTait> How are we all coping with the storm?  It's just been really rainy here.
[09:47] <JamesTait> (Where "here" is Derby).
[10:02] <BigRedS> London's largely impervious to weather
[10:02] <BigRedS> so we're fine here
[10:02] <BigRedS> except the tube's down
[10:05] <mungbean_> getting iggle piggle sohved in my face
[10:05] <mungbean_> quite hard to work from home when unprepared
[10:05] <jussi> hehe
[10:06] <jussi> Working from home can be really nice though :)
[10:06] <mungbean_> not when there's no food
[10:07] <jussi> mungbean_: lack of food certainly is a bit of a downer
[10:07] <popey> Half term too
[10:07] <mungbean_> and i had been intending to buy anniversary present on way to work
[10:07] <jussi> ouch
[10:07] <mungbean_> for tomorrow
[10:08] <Myrtti> I had to resort to porridge as there's no other bread than Finnish rye and I'm not wasting it on my own breakfast
[10:08]  * popey had eggs
[10:08] <Myrtti> this is unrelated to the weather tho
[10:08] <Myrtti> ooh, it's the light phenomena again
[10:08] <jussi> I had porridge and it was nice :)
[10:08] <jussi> with Butter :D
[10:09] <jussi> given though, I have full access to food and shops and stuff
[10:09] <jussi> mungbean_: are you Uk side again ?
[10:09] <jussi> err
[10:09] <jussi> Myrtti: ^^
[10:09] <Myrtti> yeah.
[10:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:15] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[10:17] <brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
[10:21] <BigRedS> morning brobostigon! How's things?
[10:22] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:22] <brobostigon> BigRedS: my eczema is abit upside down, otherwise fine, trying arrange a night out with my fiance for friday. and you?
[10:22] <brobostigon> morning czajkowski
[10:24] <mungbean_> how was the bigcalm wedding?
[10:24] <BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, not bad. Bit miffed by the lack of exciting weather this morning
[10:24] <mungbean_> who went? popey ?
[10:26] <brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, the weather came and gone quickly enough here, that i slept through it.
[10:41] <mungbean_> anyone know of a good remote access solution for providing 2 factor auth to remote desktops i.e. a TS broker service?
[10:42] <brobostigon> openvpn, using yubikey for 2factor auth. ?
[10:43] <mungbean_> not quite as extensive as a vpn
[10:44] <mungbean_> just for providing 2 factor aut gateway to various terminal servers securely
[10:45] <diplo> We used id cards, can't remember what they're called now..
[10:47] <mungbean_> MS do a TS gateway, but relying on MS VM for security scares me
[10:49] <diplo> heh, I wouldn't either, but vpn + smart cards worked for us
[10:50] <mungbean_> vpn not an option given the users
[10:50] <mungbean_> cannot require installation of clients
[10:51] <diplo> :/
[10:51] <diplo> We paired our cisco with the ad to allow / disable vpn but you would still need to setup login details on each machine I guess
[10:57] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:57] <bashrc> morning
[11:03] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:11] <davmor2> so is everyones homes intact after the horrific storms?
[11:12] <MooDoo> storm?  we've had a storm?
[11:12] <MooDoo> in all seriousness, we weren't affected, but I've seem some horrific images of people that have :(
[11:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm with you hence checking is everyone else was alright especially those down south and on the cost by all accounts
[11:23] <BigRedS> Oh, all I've seen is a broken crane. Not sure I want to look for more photos :(
[11:27] <mungbean_> besides gumtree and ebay, where would people flog stolen stuff online?
[11:27] <SuperMatt> bash question: I know I can use && to run a command if the previous command exits with status 0, but is there an alternative for exit status > 0?
[11:28] <mungbean_> friend had some stuff nicked
[11:28] <SuperMatt> mungbean_: preloved
[11:28]  * TheOpenSourcerer just went out to check the fencing - old rickety fence OK. One garden trellis failed. Looks like the posts were rotten
[11:29] <mungbean_> ta SuperMatt
[11:29] <mungbean_> i suspect the stuff won't surface online
[11:29] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I think there is ; let me double check
[11:29] <BigRedS> mungbean_: anything in particular?
[11:29] <BigRedS> I'd keep an eye on relevant classifieds; bicycles in London go to Brick Lane
[11:30] <davmor2> SuperMatt: sorry it's ||
[11:31] <davmor2> SuperMatt: http://askubuntu.com/questions/334994/which-one-is-better-using-or-to-execute-multiple-commands-in-one-line
[11:32] <BigRedS> || is 'or'; so  `X || Y` reads as "if X returns true, do Y"
[11:32] <mungbean_> stuff like hohner b2 bass guitar
[11:32] <SuperMatt> davmor2: thanks
[11:32] <BigRedS> no, it reads as "Do X and if that isn't true, do Y"
[11:32] <BigRedS> Argh. /me gets some coffee
[11:32] <mungbean_> i imagine a burglar almost never sells direct
[11:33] <SuperMatt> boot sales might be good
[11:33] <mungbean_> true
[11:33] <davmor2> BigRedS: no it just does X regardless of X's output do Y after
[11:33] <SuperMatt> but chances are they've already given it to a place like cash converters
[11:33] <BigRedS> mungbean_: yeah, when I was burgled a while back they found some of my stuff in a house that seemed to have been used as a depot for local thieves
[11:33] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah
[11:33] <BigRedS> davmor2: hang on, no, that's ;
[11:34] <BigRedS> X ; Y will do Y whatever X says
[11:34] <davmor2> BigRedS: I know it's one of them
[11:34] <BigRedS> X || Y will do Y if X fails (returns >0)
[11:34] <davmor2> BigRedS: that ask ubuntu page does a pretty good explanation
[11:34] <BigRedS> X && Y will do Y if X succeeds (returns 0)
[11:34] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, probably better than I can squeeze into IRC :)
[11:35] <BigRedS> but the bit I meant to get across is that these are 'and' and 'or' and so only incidentally ways to control when to run which command
[11:35] <BigRedS> they're not bash syntax so much as conventions that almost everybody uses
[11:36] <BigRedS> and you can only determine if two things are true by testing both of them, but you can tell that only one is ('or') as soon as one of them has suceeded, without bothering to test the second
[13:22] <AlanBell> the Libertus Solutions global headquarters appears to have survived the storm without incident
[13:22] <brobostigon> woop
[13:27] <jussi> aww, thats no fun! :P :P
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> The heavens appear to have just opened
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> And closed again!
[13:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> And open again!
[13:30] <popey> WEATHER UPDATE!
[13:33] <jussi> hehe
[13:33] <jussi> popey: Im getting worried...
[13:34] <jussi> Nothing from DX yet :/
[13:35] <popey> heh
[13:35] <popey> colour me unsurprised
[13:36] <GentileBen> "Libertus Solutions global headquarters" <-- you mean your caravan, AlanBell?
[13:44] <Seeker`> It was sunny when I left work to walk to the car. I looked like I had been swimming 3 mins later when I got to the car
[13:45] <Seeker`> that escalated quickly
[13:47] <mungbean_> could this be the most expensive storm ever? one wheelie bin blew over and millions are unable to travel to work.
[13:47] <GentileBen> mungbean_: I saw giant plant pots shattered on my abortive trip to work today.
[13:47] <dwatkins> a tree went through the cab of a train
[13:47] <GentileBen> Had to turn back when my umbrella was blown inside-out.
[13:48] <mgdm> eh? :)
[13:48] <GentileBen> dwatkins, an improvement for First Capital Connect.
[13:48] <GentileBen> FCC basically cancelled every train on the Midlands line.
[13:48] <mgdm> If I phoned in to work that I wasn't coming in because my umbrella was broken I'd get laughed at
[13:48] <mungbean_> FCC and GA and SWT cancelled every train in the south east too
[13:49] <GentileBen> mgdm: I told them I'd been blown into Surrey.
[13:49] <mgdm> heh
[13:49] <mungbean_> the upside is you can have a post-lunch snooze in your own bed in your lunch hour
[13:49] <mungbean_> and be properly productive in the afternoon
[13:49] <directhex> chiltern cancelled all trains
[13:49] <GentileBen> I turned back when, after standing on the platform for 10 minutes, I realised something was afoot, as I was the only person on the platform.
[13:49] <mungbean_> i get all my news off facebook
[13:50] <GentileBen> I find working from home pretty difficult.
[13:50] <GentileBen> I'm doing documentation today.
[13:50] <mungbean_> fortunately so does my wife and she read something on her facebook about trains being down
[13:50] <GentileBen> This is even worse than when people get hit by trains.
[13:50] <GentileBen> It's that bad.
[13:51] <GentileBen> As an aside, I've noticed people getting hit by trains more often in these months vs earlier in the year.
[13:51] <mungbean_> i prefer BST than GMT
[13:51] <popey> \o/ UTC
[13:51] <GentileBen> I prefer GMT+2.
[13:51] <mungbean_> nobody needs daylight at 6am
[13:51] <GentileBen> We should man the fuck up and move to Berlin Time.
[13:51] <mungbean_> everybody needs daylight at 4.30pm
[13:51] <GentileBen> mungbean_, the dumbass Scots do.
[13:52] <GentileBen> Takes an hour later for their sunrise.
[13:52] <mungbean_> scots can do their own thing
[13:52] <GentileBen> mungbean_, I hope so.
[13:52]  * mgdm glares at GentileBen
[13:52] <GentileBen> It's going to be hilarious if the Scots vote for independence....I sincerely hope we move to CET aka GMT+2.
[13:52] <GentileBen> They're going to have to move with us, for business reasons.
[13:52] <GentileBen> And hey, I hope they enjoy their 10am sunrises.
[13:53] <mungbean_> any govt that actually does the permanent bst change will get my vote
[13:53] <GentileBen> When will people learn? We need daylight in the evenings, not mornings.
[13:53] <mungbean_> they mooted it couple of years back, prompting a flurry of bbc articles and radio 4 chin stroking
[13:54] <GentileBen> They tried it in the 70s didn't they?:
[13:54] <GentileBen> They tried being on BST all year.
[13:54] <GentileBen> I'm advocating DST but with BST or BST+1.
[13:54] <popey> \o/ DBS check nearly complete
[13:54] <GentileBen> So basically our clocks go forward one hour.
[13:54] <mgdm> popey: You're getting an Aston Martin...?
[13:54] <popey> heh, no
[13:55] <popey> CRB (as was) check
[13:55] <mgdm> ahh
[13:55] <mgdm> didn't know they'd renamed it
[13:55] <mungbean_> what are you doing with children?
[13:55] <popey> yeah, much better now
[13:55] <mgdm> CodeClub related?
[13:55] <GentileBen> Did they rename it?
[13:55] <popey> can use one check for multiple locations
[13:55] <popey> and have it renewed automagically
[13:55] <popey> yes
[13:55] <popey> and yes
[13:55] <popey> and codeclub
[13:55] <GentileBen> popey they'd been claiming that for years.
[13:55] <GentileBen> Ever since Ian Huntley.
[13:55] <popey> its also much faster
[13:55] <popey> my application was received 4 days ago, and it's already nearly done
[13:56] <mungbean> wow, how much? £30?
[13:56] <popey> free via codeclub
[13:56] <mungbean> somebody pays
[13:56] <popey> free to me via codeclub
[13:56] <GentileBen> popey, my "he's not a paedophile" certificate ran out a year or so ago.
[13:56] <popey> we all pay, it's gov funded
[13:56] <popey> oh noes, GentileBen is now a paedicurist!
[13:56] <GentileBen> I had to do an Enhanced CRB.
[13:56] <mungbean> is codeclub a nationwide thing?
[13:57] <popey> yes
[13:57] <popey> global now
[13:57] <GentileBen> It's amazing the lengths you have to go to if you want little girls to sit on your lap.
[13:57] <popey> CodeClub = uk
[13:57] <popey> CodeClub World = global
[13:57] <GentileBen> Another example of the namby-pampy wet nanny state PC brigade.
[13:57] <popey> Well indeed.
[13:58] <GentileBen> Didn't the Torycunts want to make anybody who worked with kids get a CRB? Or was that ZaNuLieBore?
[13:58] <popey> ahem
[13:58] <popey> language please GentileBen
[13:58] <GentileBen> Sorry popey.
[13:59] <GentileBen> *New Labour
[14:04] <mungbean> there's a codeclub about 5 miles away
[14:32] <DJones> Hmmh, 2 burned out vans in less than a week, /me wonders whether we've got an arsonist on the payroll
[14:32] <mgdm> o_O
[14:34] <DJones> Even stranger, one at a depot, one outside drivers house at the weekend, 20 miles apart, and both driven by the same employee (in terms of his old van, and his new replacement van)
[14:35] <penguin42> DJones: Or a faulty van model?
[14:35] <diddledan> DJones: was there anything of value in them?
[14:36] <DJones> Different makes & models of van, filled with truck tyre fitting equipment, equipment probably worth £10k
[14:36] <Seeker`> was the equipment still in the van after it was burnt out?
[14:37] <diddledan> just wondering whether it's a case of theft rather than arson
[14:37] <DJones> As far as I know it was
[14:37] <penguin42> blood stains as well?
[14:37] <DJones> I think the driver may be getting a bit of a grilling at the moment
[14:38] <Seeker`> DJones: you probably shouldn't leave him in the van while it is burning
[14:38] <penguin42> DJones: Well you'd better baste him
[14:38] <DJones> BBQ'd welshman......
[14:38] <diddledan> I like a bit of lamb
[14:39] <diddledan> or would it be mutton?
[14:40] <diddledan> my chrome browser seems unable to resolve any hostnames right now
[14:41] <diddledan> resolving it using dig in the terminal works and then reloading the browser straight after it works fine
[14:44] <BigRedS> diddledan: anything in your hosts file?
[14:44] <diddledan> it's pretty much every site on the web
[14:45] <diddledan> I certainly don't have a hostfile entry for www.hsbc.co.uk
[14:45] <BigRedS> yeah, I don't think there's anything you can stick in there that would break dns that horribly
[14:48] <popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/1225910$ env | grep proxy
[14:48] <popey> http_proxy=http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3128/
[14:48] <popey> https_proxy=http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3128/
[14:48] <popey> oops
[14:48] <popey> sorry
[14:49] <Myrtti> would someone want to buy me some ethernet cable? only 1,195USD/1.5m
[14:49] <diddledan> popey: I think my computer is more powerful than yours - mine is called "earth" :-p
[14:50] <Seeker`> Myrtti: wut?
[14:50] <Myrtti> http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/diamond
[14:50] <Myrtti> 100% silver
[14:51] <mungbean> monster cable
[14:51] <DJones> I was sort of hoping that the 1.5m meant 1.5 miles
[14:51] <Myrtti> http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-vodka-ethernet-cable-and-diamond-ethernet-cable
[14:51] <diddledan> oic, it's 1k195, not 1point195
[14:52] <Myrtti> nevermind gilded plugs, silver all the way down
[14:56] <SpookyMatt> when will audiophiles realise that digital doesn't degrade (at least on in the same way as analogue). If you really care about your audio quality, just don't freaking use any digital equipment at all
[14:57] <diddledan> SpookyMatt: they also don't seem to appreciate that every transition between materials is going to induce artifacts
[14:58] <daubers> Afternoon peeps
[14:58] <mungbean> i bought a monster cable once
[14:58] <mungbean> needed a 5m cable for my ps2.
[14:59] <mungbean> got sent the wrong one, never got round to swapping it
[14:59] <mungbean> fail
[15:01] <mungbean> thought facebook woulda been more busy today
[15:01] <mungbean> but its the same league of mums with newborns
[15:01] <mungbean> clicking like on every new item
[15:01] <diddledan> o_O
[15:01] <diddledan> is something important happening today then?
[15:01] <mungbean> i know about 10 mums in my feed with kids under 1yr
[15:02] <mungbean> national no work day
[15:02] <mungbean> and work from home day
[15:02] <diddledan> ooh
[15:02] <mungbean> where the train companies sponsor us all to WFH for a day
[15:03] <mungbean> you have to fill in a dumb form to get the sponsor money tohugh..."delay repay" or sumthing
[15:07] <SpookyMatt> https://twitter.com/Dom_Rob/status/394835518368022528 oh great, bomb disposal robot near my office
[15:10] <penguin42> SpookyMatt: Check, you know where you left your bags....
[15:13] <SpookyMatt> My bag is under my desk with me
[15:13] <mungbean> aww wall-e got lost
[15:14] <SpookyMatt> I'm quite tempted to walk down there and see it
[15:14] <SpookyMatt> but effort
[15:14] <SpookyMatt> y'know?
[15:16] <bigcalm[dover]> Good evening peeps :)
[15:16] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: got a reply from the BBC regarding that music track
[15:16] <mgdm> mungbean: what was it?
[15:16] <bigcalm[dover]> Waiting at Dover for a ferry. Sea looks a tad choppy
[15:17] <bigcalm[dover]> Evening? I mean afternoon. Having been awake since 3.30am has warped my sense of time a little
[15:18] <Myrtti> we went to Cambridge on Saturday because I had to collect something from a friend who'd been to US and get some clothes from M&S
[15:18] <mungbean> mgdm: MartijnVdS It was a piece of library music from Justemente. Album: Indietronika Track: Spaceship
[15:19] <Myrtti> queued for about 45 minutes to the shopping centre car park only to find it closed, later found out there was a bomb scare and there had been two controlled explosions earlier
[15:19] <mgdm> mungbean: not on Spotify then :-)
[15:24] <mungbean> mgdm: http://www.echomusic.com.tw/echo/tw/music01_info.jspx?id=4028818a2b67c49d012b6aee91200204&ablumid=4028818a341d5cec0134209c7e66001c
[15:27] <mungbean> mgdm: can listen here: http://www.sakuranotes.jp/Disc5041.html
[15:27] <penguin42> interesting way to leave a company for the last time; I took the stairs where they were doing the evacuation chair training....
[15:28] <popey> MOAR TEA NEEDED!
[15:30] <mungbean> now to find out how to buy it
[15:30] <davmor2> popey: you mean you didn't grab a load of those oggcamp travel mugs and turn them into a massive tea barrel
[15:30] <mungbean> any japanese speakers here?
[15:31] <DJones> mungbean: I've got some Sony speakers at home, does that count?
[15:34] <mungbean> groan
[15:34] <mungbean> looks like its a music library rather than an album to buy
[15:39] <Azelphur> wtf, gmail is dumping youtube notification mails into the spam box
[15:39] <Azelphur> silly gmail.
[15:41] <diddledan> gmail doens't even know google's own emails?!
[15:41] <diddledan> yey for overzealous spambots
[15:42] <diddledan> is it a win that google dumps it's own marketing in the bin along with everyone else?
[15:44] <penguin42> well, it would be wrong for them to discriminate
[15:45] <BigRedS> I wonder if there's some unhealthy rivalry between the YouTube and GMail teams
[15:45] <mgdm> over who can send the most pointless emails?
[15:45] <mgdm> perhaps; I got a pile of "Have you seen $blah on YouTube?" emails this morning that I neither need nor want
[15:46] <mgdm> However, they both lose out to the G+ team for the prize
[15:46] <mgdm> although the "what is your real name?" feature on YouTube deserves a special mention for being particularly irritating and unnecessary
[15:47] <mungbean> doing work on my 5yr old home laptop is not good
[15:47] <mungbean> fan is about to spin off its spindle
[15:54] <mungbean> SpookyMatt: "Spoke to a police officer, he said it was some sort of incendiary device, ie, it could be something highly explosive, does not mean a deliberate bomb though"
[15:54] <SpookyMatt> yeah, I saw that
[15:54] <SpookyMatt> still, it was a bit of excitement for all of 10 seconds
[16:01] <mungbean> another week and my amazon gift voucher balance grows.
[16:01] <mungbean> nothing to spend it on
[16:01] <SpookyMatt> spend it on me
[16:01] <SpookyMatt> lavish me with gifts
[16:01] <mungbean> my wife tried that one
[16:02] <SpookyMatt> dang
[16:02] <SpookyMatt> ok, think about all the things you want your wife to do, and then exchange the vouchers for that
[16:02] <SpookyMatt> note: doesn't have to be anything to do with sexitimes
[16:03] <SpookyMatt> a week without cooking or something
[16:03] <SpookyMatt> I don't know
[16:03] <SpookyMatt> I don't have a wife
[16:03] <mungbean> both of us are too tired to trade favours
[16:05] <SpookyMatt> oh well
[16:05] <SpookyMatt> just save up for something totes awesome
[16:06] <mungbean> a tv
[16:06] <mungbean> only 10% of way there :(
[16:09] <mungbean> wifey received 2 dozen roses for the anniversary though
[16:18] <Seeker`> mungbean: I wonder what a 'device' is. It could just be something like a petrol container?
[16:19] <mungbean> box of swan vestas
[16:24] <penguin42> Seeker`: In the case of the last one we had in Manchester it turned out to be someones laptop in a backpack with scary looking cables
[16:27] <Seeker`> penguin42: how do cables look "scary"? Are they wrapped in bandages like a mummy? Don't have a reflection?
[16:28] <penguin42> Seeker`: Oh you know big and curly with boxes at the end
[16:38] <SpookyMatt> I'll tell you something, I once went to Science Museum lates, and they had us beuild really basic robots. It was essentially a plastic cup upturned, a motor with an odd shaped weight on the end, a couple of wires and a battery pack
[16:38] <SpookyMatt> we then had to decorate it with pipe cleaners, googly eyes, etc
[16:39] <SpookyMatt> when I took it home on the tube, I got some really worried looks
[16:39] <SpookyMatt> it was very inoffensive, but there were just enough people with very little knowledge of circuitry to get them worried
[16:40] <SpookyMatt> one person starts looking worried, everyone else wonders what's up too
[16:57] <dwatkins> the rain has started in Edinburgh, it's rather apocalyptic outside: http://www.eastsidecottages.co.uk/webcam/
[17:06] <penguin42> dwatkins: I went to Edinburgh for the 1st time last week, it certainly can get a heck of a mix of weather in a day can't it?
[17:07] <penguin42> nice city though
[17:09] <penguin42> (train journey from Manc is a bit grim, last hour is  sheep/pine trees/sheep/pine trees....)
[17:09] <mgdm> I did that trip ~3 weeks ago
[17:09] <mgdm> I thought that was the best bit
[17:09] <mgdm> but the weather was not bad that day
[17:10] <penguin42> mgdm: There were some places where the wind turbines were cutting through cloud which was nice - I wish I'd been awake enough to get a picture
[17:11] <mgdm> apparently this is in Denmark: http://i.imgur.com/roIGr1p.jpg
[17:11] <mgdm> the wind turbines make fog
[17:12] <penguin42> oh nice
[17:21] <xnox> James Blunt's Bonfire Heart -> since when did he stop singing in an annoying voice? =)
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: cool!
[18:07] <dwatkins> penguin42: yep, it's great fun.
[18:09] <penguin42> dwatkins: Went to the KVM forum
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I saw some videos from that
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> wery intewesting!
[18:21] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Could you hear any of the audio on them?
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: on some
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: well, on the ones I tried
[18:22] <penguin42> I think they were going to replace the live stream recordings with better stuff
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> though they are a bit tinny at times
[18:22] <penguin42> ok, that's got to be better than the 1st day stuff - that was useless when I tried to watch it on the 1st day
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> higher quality would not hurt at all
[18:24] <penguin42> oh the 1st day they had mike problems
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: ah, I just get the "we only have 3kbps for audio" noise
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> so you can hear what they're saying, but you have to concentrate
[18:26] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh no on the ones I was trying to watch they were breaking up multiple times a second - they were initially using bluetooth in a room with about 150 laptops
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> ...
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> Virtualization people, never considering the real-world implications of their choices :P
[18:27] <penguin42> hehe
[18:57] <gayan> Hello
[18:58] <gayan> Can you pls tell me how to install hadoop ubuntu
[19:16] <popey> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/a/45257/612 for building rebuilding ubuntu
[19:24] <stevepdp> evening o/
[19:26] <brobostigon> evening stevepdp
[19:45] <AlanBell> popey: I think that is doing something slightly different
[19:45] <popey> well. you could boot a pi on debian, add apt-build and build ubuntu via that?
[19:46] <AlanBell> so repoint the deb src lines to the ubuntu repos, and apt-build things
[19:53] <popey> you would also need the deb src for debian for the build deps
[19:53] <popey> to get bootstrapped maybe?
[19:54] <popey> i used Core Linux years back and bootstrapped up from next to nothing to a full-ish desktop
[19:54] <popey> could do the same but getting the source packages from ubuntu and building
[19:58] <AlanBell> hmm, that kinda doesn't work
[19:58] <AlanBell> doing apt-build install tar as a normal user fails, because it needs root
[19:58] <AlanBell> use sudo and it fails because configure needs not to have root
[20:01] <AlanBell> needs FORCE_UNSAFE_CONFIGURE=1 to be set in root's environment or something
[20:06] <AlanBell> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWannaBuildInfrastructureOnOneServer looks good
[20:07] <AlanBell> I think the basic idea is you set up your wanna-build server and have a bunch of builders running buildd
[20:08] <penguin42> AlanBell: fakeroot ?
[20:09] <AlanBell> I think it just isn't the right approach
[20:12] <AlanBell> so if I was to mirror the full source archive, how much disk space would that need
[20:12] <AlanBell> and host a full binary archive once built
[20:13]  * penguin42 hates to think
[20:15] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors not too bad
[20:15] <AlanBell> for one release about 7GB for the binary archive
[20:20] <popey> its way more than that i thought
[20:21] <penguin42> that's way smaller than what I thought!
[20:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: Don't forget that's dominated by some big stuff as well
[20:25] <AlanBell> looks like running apt-mirror for raring wants 103.8 GiB
[20:27] <AlanBell> which is 60GiB of binary and 44GiB of sources
[20:31] <penguin42> seems an odd balance - I'd have expected a much bigger ratio
[21:01] <AlanBell> that appears to be right, downloading the sources now onto a 300GB disk, which hopefully will be attached to the controlling server that does wanna-build
[21:02] <penguin42> AlanBell: You are only getting the current source aren't you?
[21:02] <AlanBell> so that will do wanna-build which manages the queue for the builders, and it will host the repositories
[21:02] <AlanBell> yeah, just raring
[21:03] <AlanBell> using apt-mirror
[21:03] <AlanBell> but comented out the deb lines, just doing deb-src
[21:55] <Myrtti> dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/2kXy0ER SUCH PUMPKIN
[22:23] <dwatkins> Myrtti: that's awesome
[22:26] <dwatkins> This meme explains a lot.


[21:06] <cm-t> hi, I am looking for an ubuntu themed template for libreOffice impress ( something more updated than http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/presentation/ubuntu-new-template please)
[21:07] <cm-t> quesh: tell me you got it !
[23:13] <cm-t> quesh: http://iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-party-paris-happen-during-november-16th-november-17th-2013-40-presentations
[23:13] <cm-t> <3


[00:00] <EriC^^> do you think he should try the driver on the nvidia website?
[00:00] <lotuspsychje> no, he needs a cuda package
[00:00] <lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-cuda-toolkit
[00:00] <lotuspsychje> try this one perhaps?
[00:00] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://askubuntu.com/questions/451672/installing-and-testing-cuda-in-ubuntu-14-04
[00:01] <lotuspsychje> works kinda the same as an optimus card, system will use the cpu intel grafix, until nvidia-prime is installed to switch the card to nvidia
[00:03] <lotuspsychje> i dont think you can even disable the intel grafix from bios
[00:04] <EriC^^> oh
[00:05] <EriC^^> should he install nvidia-prime ?
[00:05] <lotuspsychje> no, its not an optimus card
[00:05] <lotuspsychje> so would need a cuda package
[00:05] <EriC^^> i found this though, maybe it's old though http://askubuntu.com/questions/517569/nvidia-gtx-660m-on-14-04-64-bit
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> yeah old, bumblebee project is outdated
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> bumblebee has now changes to nvidia-prime for optimus cards only
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> for cuda cards, not sure never did myself
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> but i think its that cuda toolkit
[00:07] <EriC^^> i think that's a dev toolkit though
[00:07] <EriC^^> i could be wrong, this is chinese to me :D
[00:07] <lotuspsychje> well i saw it yesterday i think, something with toolkit and nvidia
[00:07] <lotuspsychje> cant recall precisely
[00:09] <lotuspsychje> ben64 knows alot of drivers
[00:10] <lotuspsychje> maybe ask him in main, about this card?
[00:10] <EriC^^> the guy left
[00:10] <EriC^^> lol
[00:11] <lotuspsychje> oh :p
[08:36] <lordievader> Goodmorning.
[10:09] <tomp> Someone knows about the latest kernel ?
[10:18] <lordievader> tomp: What do you mean?
[10:19] <lordievader> 4.0 is available for both Vivid and Wily.
[11:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:06] <tomp> lordievader: Oh sorry, I forgot to mention ... / Just coming from a channel where we merely discuss 12.04 - so I'm talking about the latest kernel for 12.04 LTS
[12:10] <lordievader> tomp: Looks like 3.4: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[12:17] <tomp> lordievader: Yep, I see. But that makes me wonder why update-manager's latest installation is 3.2.0-84-generic #121-Ubuntu, what is 3.2.0-84.121	Ubuntu-3.2.0-84.121 = Mainline Kernel Version 3.2.68 ???
[12:17] <lordievader> tomp: That is because the mainline kernel ppa is not the main archive ;)
[12:19] <tomp> lordievader: So I can't get update-manager fetch the latest available ?
[12:19] <lordievader> tomp: If you add the mainline kernel ppa it wouldn't be a problem.
[12:22] <tomp> lordievader: No disarrangements coming up doing that ?
[12:24] <lordievader> Shouldn't be. Else you can just revert to your current kernel.
[12:29] <tomp> lordievader: I'm distrusting the kernel to load all needed modules since <IP_ADDRESS> (where I had no problems). 83 and 84 are not stable for me. So it's not a question to revert to 84 but rather go back to 80 or go forward to anything known as stable. What I'm afraid of is messing up the automatic updates of the kernel then referencing more than one source !??
[12:34] <lordievader> If you keep that kernel installed you can allways select it at boot time.
[13:08] <tomp> Related topic: As you could see I'm fishing in muddy waters with my kernel issue. I've had a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging - but that's really too many options. Has anyone a simple starting point for locating the source of strange symptoms ??
[13:27] <lordievader> Define strange symptoms...
[13:29] <tomp> Unfortunately it's only strange - in earnest ...
[13:30] <tomp> headache no1: It's not reproducible :-(
[13:31] <tomp> What I mis-remember ...
[13:32] <tomp> After 2,5h working the gnome-session was closed (by what?) an I found myself at the login ...
[13:33] <tomp> Sometimes it freezes after starting the gnome-session ...
[13:33] <tomp> Sometimes the gnome-session comes up almost normally but I'm missing e.g. network or sound ...
[13:44] <tomp> As I said: Nothing of all that up to 3.2.0-80.116	Ubuntu-3.2.0-80.116	which was Mainline Kernel Version 3.2.68 too. Does anyone know, what Ubuntu specifics were changed in 3.2.0-82.119,3.2.0-83.120,3.2.0-84.121 ?
[13:52] <lordievader> I guess you could read the changelogs.
[14:05] <tomp> That's what I' just doing. But I can't see what could cause my trouble. Ah, one thing: CPU hard lockups were appearing, too :-(
[14:05] <lordievader> Auch, those aren't nice.
[14:33] <tomp> Doesn't help anything, could read changelogs ad infinitum .... :-(
[14:34] <tomp> I'd need a starting point for my searching after the issue appeared - maybe it will not return ;-)


[00:00] <huwshimi> hatch: We've had the anchor div conversation so many times...
[00:00] <hatch> huwshimi when it makes sense yes
[00:00] <hatch> but in this case, it doesn't :)
[00:01] <huwshimi> hatch: Why not? This is a navigation item...
[00:01] <rick_h_> what's the case here? Is it going to viewNavigate?
[00:01] <hatch> because pjax is such a bucket full of issues since we don't use it
[00:01] <hatch> rick_h_ it probably will end up doing something along those lines
[00:02] <rick_h_> huwshimi: hatch actually, these tokens shouldn't nagivate on their own.  If it makes sense to appear clickable, I'm fine as long as there's a direct test that the event does not propogate
[00:03] <rick_h_> we've been bit by it before
[00:03] <hatch> oh...except the pointer....that's the only <a> related thing that needs to stay
[00:03] <hatch> so...many...times
[00:03] <hatch> I'd rather not have them at all
[00:03] <rick_h_> hatch: alt text? I guess you can alt text anything
[00:03] <rick_h_> I kept thinking there was something else
[00:03] <rick_h_> oh, tab/selectable
[00:03] <huwshimi> hatch: And make it tab-able.
[00:03] <rick_h_> it breaks that UI badly
[00:04] <hatch> tab select is never going to work with the app anyways
[00:04] <rick_h_> I'm not 100% sure how much we NEED it here though as it's not really a form and I'm not sure how you'd select into the space to expect a good tab experience
[00:04] <hatch> we'd need to somehow maintain a tabindex order across all "widgets"
[00:04] <hatch> I've thought about it
[00:04] <hatch> it's possible
[00:05] <hatch> maybe for V5 :P
[00:05] <rick_h_> hatch: huwshimi I'd vote implementers choice noting the need for explicit stop test if the implementer chooses to go on with <a>
[00:05] <rick_h_> hatch: lol
[00:05] <hatch> ok ok I'll settle for a test checking to make sure the event does not bubble outside of it's container
[00:05] <rick_h_> sound acceptable huwshimi ?
[00:06]  * hatch says that like he has some kind of authority in the matter
[00:06] <hatch> lol
[00:06] <rick_h_> hatch: well I'm saying 'vote'
[00:06] <rick_h_> we can make it a friday card, we've been down the road before and we've done both in the code base.
[00:06] <rick_h_> I don't know either is 'wrong' but we've been bit and need safety checks
[00:07] <hatch> nope, actually huwshimi is correct in using it imho, but we don't use pjax....but we have pjax....so it's just a bug trap heh
[00:07] <hatch> maybe one of these days the yui guys will split router up so we can use only the parts we want
[00:07] <hatch> it's been on the books for a long time though
[00:07] <rick_h_> yea, and our app is a bit unique
[00:07] <rick_h_> it's not your standard CRUD app
[00:08] <hatch> we probably could do pjax with this new state stuff
[00:08] <rick_h_> create our own mold wheeee
[00:08] <hatch> haha
[00:08] <rick_h_> yea, if we could start over we could do things a bit diff for sure
[00:09] <hatch> 2.0.0 total greenfield?
[00:09] <hatch> lol
[00:09] <rick_h_> lol
[00:09] <rick_h_> oh the lines of rewritten code
[00:09] <rick_h_> isn't the rule 'never rewrite' though?
[00:09] <hatch> honestly though once we get this state stuff done, the only real 'legacy' stuff is the double dispatch
[00:09] <rick_h_> I know I've fought that rule on my bookmark app a few times
[00:10] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, and mocha and the awful test setup
[00:10] <hatch> lol....that doesn't exist
[00:10] <rick_h_> next up...combo loader :P
[00:10] <hatch> haha
[00:10] <rick_h_> let's set our sights on the really hard fun changes :P
[00:10]  * hatch waits for design to add fullscreen back in
[00:10] <hatch> lol
[00:11] <hatch> I think the new state stuff will make it easier to do when they do though lol
[00:12]  * hatch turns off code brain
[00:12] <hatch> I think urls are making me bitter
[00:12] <rick_h_> hatch: all good, almost through
[00:12] <hatch> yeah maybe watching tv tonight I'll finish the tests
[00:12] <hatch> the code is all done and about 1/2 of the tests
[11:02] <rick_h_> mmorning
[11:04] <frankban> hi rick_h_
[11:16] <frankban> rick_h_: quickstart 1.3.1 is out, Robie should work on that today
[11:17] <rick_h_> frankban: awesome, thanks for the quick turn around on that. PPA-land here we come! :)
[11:17] <frankban> :-)
[11:17] <rick_h_> frankban: I've got maas and OSX support for quickstart on the list of topics/work items for the next cycle
[11:17] <rick_h_> frankban: let me know if there's anything else we should look at trying to do. I can't recall anything off the top of my head
[11:20] <frankban> rick_h_: we have some "nice to have" fixes, i.e.: bug 1292167, bug 1302382, bug 1255635 and bug 1287876
[11:20] <_mup_> Bug #1292167: apt-http-proxy needs to be documented <docs> <hs-arm64> <juju-core:Triaged by thumper> <juju-core docs:Fix Released by sinzui> <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292167>
[11:20] <_mup_> Bug #1302382: Support lxc-clone in local provider <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302382>
[11:20] <_mup_> Bug #1255635: Allow passing constraints to juju <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255635>
[11:20] <_mup_> Bug #1287876: support optional extra config for bundle deployments <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287876>
[11:21] <frankban> but maas and osx are more high priority
[11:21] <rick_h_> frankban: cool, some some maintenance time would be cool
[11:21] <rick_h_> but as far as bullet features for the planning it looks like those two
[11:22] <frankban> rick_h_: for maas, we'd need an infrastructure where to test it. for osx, I think we'll need some brew hacking
[11:22] <rick_h_> frankban: yep, I started a conversation with someone from server yesterday about maas
[11:22] <rick_h_> frankban: it sounds like it works in a vm world
[11:22] <rick_h_> frankban: and he's going to send me some notes on some hardware suggestions
[11:22] <frankban> cool
[11:23] <rick_h_> frankban: I was thinking of getting 3 or 4 intel nucs to setup a GUI test lab
[11:23] <frankban> rick_h_: so, my understanding is that "maas support" for quickstart means "supporting the creation of maas entries in the envs.yaml", and not "support deploying maas", right?
[11:23] <rick_h_> frankban: http://marcoceppi.com/2012/05/juju-maas-virtualbox/
[11:24] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: frankban I really need to amend that post
[11:24] <rick_h_> frankban: its: 1) support it as a configurable provider 2) support deploying the gui to it 3) support deploying bundles
[11:24] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: cool, yea we're going to be trying to cut our teeth on maas so looking into the beginner stuff atm
[11:25] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: that's not the way to go
[11:25] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: heh ok good to know
[11:25] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: virt-manager + maas is way better experience
[11:25] <marcoceppi> I've got a blog post written up about it
[11:25] <frankban> rick_h_: ok, so you already have a maas, and quickstart allows you to configure a juju environment on your maas provider, bootstrap juju, deploy the GUI and bundles
[11:25] <marcoceppi> but not finished
[11:26] <rick_h_> frankban: yep, that's the goal anyway. I've got a note to 'investigate what's required to implement'
[11:26] <rick_h_> frankban: and maas does have an api so there might be a stretch goal or two when we get in there.
[11:26] <rick_h_> frankban: we might need to do things like use the api to make sure you've got unallocated nodes or the like
[11:27] <rick_h_> since you can't bring up new machines you don't have/etc
[11:29] <frankban> rick_h_: I see, so we need at least one node for bootstrap node + GUI and a machine for each unit in the bundle (assuming they are not co-located,in which case we would need to also parse the bundle)
[11:29] <frankban> marcoceppi: sounds great, looking forward to reading that article
[11:30] <rick_h_> frankban: that's my understanding of maas at the moment. It's a very vague understanding though I'll admit :)
[11:53]  * frankban lunches
[14:03] <frankban> rick_h_: re local icons in service blocks. This might require some changes on the guiserver in order to handle the case the local charm does not include an icon.svg, right?
[14:04] <frankban> rick_h_: in that case, a 404 is returned and the block would display a broken image I guess
[14:09] <rick_h_> frankban: I thought we could have hte files in the charm model
[14:09] <rick_h_> frankban: and only request it form the guiserver if we already know the charm has one
[14:10] <frankban> rick_h_: where in the code files are currently populated?
[14:11] <rick_h_> frankban: looking
[14:11] <rick_h_> frankban: for the stuff we get from charmworld there's a files attr from the apio
[14:11] <rick_h_> frankban: if we don't fill that during our unzip of the local charm we can add it? hatch do you recall when you worked on the unzip stuff around charms?
[14:13] <frankban> rick_h_: I am not sure we unzip the files when uploading local charms, and even in that case, we need to handle local charms deployed from outside the GUI, or after a refresh
[14:13] <rick_h_> frankban: true
[14:14] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, well in the case that the guiserver can't find a charm icon, it can redirect to manange. It's got solid urls for the default and the category icons
[14:14] <rick_h_> hate to duplicate that, but worst case it can 302 to the right url
[14:14] <rick_h_> does the guiserver know the charm's config for the charmworld url?
[14:14] <rick_h_> the root hostname and all that?
[14:15] <frankban> looking
[14:15] <frankban> rick_h_: the charm passes the charmworld url to the gui server, yes
[14:17] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, so the default icon is always /static/img/charm_160.svg
[14:17] <rick_h_> frankban: and we've got category one's as well, but not sure if we have that data
[14:18] <rick_h_> as that's going to be metadata.yaml info for the charm in question
[14:18] <rick_h_> frankban: what do you think of just "if no icon found, 302 to charmworld's default"?
[14:18] <frankban> rick_h_: we can start by just redirecting to the default icon
[14:18] <frankban> yeah
[14:19] <rick_h_> frankban: oh, doesn't the api send the file list?
[14:19] <frankban> rick_h_: so, if 404 on the gui server, just redirect to charmworldURL://static/img/charm_160.svg
[14:19] <frankban> rick_h_: yes
[14:19] <rick_h_> frankban: I recall we had a / that would give us the list of files?
[14:19] <frankban> it does
[14:19] <frankban> rick_h_: yes
[14:19] <rick_h_> so we can popualte the file list on reaload/etc...but it's not automatic/delta/etc so it's an extra call already
[14:20] <frankban> rick_h_: yes, it's an HTTPS call, not a WebSocket one
[14:20] <rick_h_> sorry, thinking this through...had in my head we'd have the same files: [somelist] on models like we do from charmworld
[14:20] <frankban> rick_h_: so, it's not in the delta
[14:20] <frankban> rick_h_: yes, we have that list returned as JSON by a GET call to /charms/?url=charmURL
[14:20] <rick_h_> hmm, ok well let's do this for now due to the demo urgency, but I'd like to revisit and see if perhaps we should try to do something with that data on local charms
[14:21] <hatch> sorry I missed the ding....
[14:21] <frankban> rick_h_: we'll need that data for the README
[14:21] <rick_h_> maybe there's some way (annotations?) or something we can shoe-horn this into place to be better long term
[14:21] <rick_h_> frankban: right, but the readme loads async anyway so it's not as big a deal
[14:22] <rick_h_> it's not as painful to get a spinny wheel and get 'no readme found'
[14:22] <hatch> ok I don't understand the question
[14:22] <frankban> rick_h_: exactly, the icon is instead just a source reference, a path to a file somewhere
[14:22] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, I'm adding a card in the backlog to revisit the files list some more, but for demo we can just hard code 302 to charmworld from the gui's config
[14:23] <rick_h_> in case they run a local charmworld instance or something for offline-ness
[14:23] <rick_h_> hatch: all good, frankban got me straight. There were bigger issues than I had in my head at the moment
[14:23] <hatch> oh ok cool
[14:23]  * rick_h_ puffs some more air up in that head to make more room
[14:23] <hatch> haha
[14:23] <hatch> last night I got wifi working on ubuntu, and they fixed the shutdown bug
[14:24] <rick_h_> woot
[14:24] <hatch> now the only real 'deal breaker' is that it burns through the battery in about 1.5h
[14:24] <hatch> lol
[14:24] <hatch> on idle, osx 7, ubuntu 1.5
[14:24] <hatch> something isn't quiiiiite right there
[14:24] <hatch> lol
[14:28]  * bac is back.  survived first encounter with PR health care system.
[14:29] <rick_h_> bac: whoa, hope all is well
[14:31] <hatch> is it cheap there or still way overpriced?
[14:32] <bac> seems about the same as US.  but they don't want to mess with our insurance, even though they are listed in the BCBS network.
[14:33] <hatch> I saw a really interesting show which outlined why the US healthcare is so expensive vs others even taking govt subsidies out of the equation. It came down to each office being it's own instead of negotiating in a large group to purchase things
[14:33] <bac> SHUT UP!  WE HAVE THE BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, MAYBE THE UNIVERSE.
[14:33] <bac> i know, i heard it on tv
[14:34] <hatch> lol
[14:34] <bac> don't mind those pesky "outcome" metrics.
[14:35] <hatch> if it makes you feel any better ours spend $27M to learn how to do lean....and then they claimed that it woudln't work....
[14:35] <hatch> *facedesk*
[14:36] <hatch> no that wasn't extreme enough
[14:36] <hatch> *facefloor*
[14:38] <bac> rick_h_: that ES book must've been something in the original Polish.  the English translation is a head-scratcher at times.  but, everyone says it is the best available, so i'm happy to have it.
[14:39] <hatch> heh
[14:39] <rick_h_> bac: hah
[14:39] <bac> i guess "editor" is not a job description at those pulp houses
[14:40] <rick_h_> yea, I mean it at least got my head around ES better
[14:40] <bac> rick_h_: did you send away for the free code samples?
[14:40] <rick_h_> but yea, sometimes tough to read
[14:40] <rick_h_> bac: no, the book had enough in the book for me to figure out commands to run to help debug stuff
[14:40] <bac> cool
[14:50] <rick_h_> jujugui call in 10 kanban please
[15:00] <hatch__> kadams54 call
[15:00] <kadams54> Yup
[15:10] <lazyPower> rick_h_: so, i have it on good authority you know of a magical flag that allows me to view icons in the GUI that dont come from the charm store
[15:10] <rick_h_> lazyPower: ssssh I'm not telling anyone
[15:10] <lazyPower> oh
[15:10] <lazyPower> so
[15:10] <rick_h_> lazyPower: it doens't work atm
[15:10] <hatch> lol
[15:10] <rick_h_> and we're working on local charms getting icons right now for high priority stuff that should be done be Wed
[15:10] <lazyPower> i have it on good authority this flag doesn't exist, and i will poke at you for additional details of said non-functioning freature
[15:11] <lazyPower> ;)
[15:11] <rick_h_> lazyPower: I started the feature, but it doesn't work and have not had a chance to follow up the feature as it's been a slack time thing and I don't know what slack is
[15:11] <rick_h_> lazyPower: but it's something we want to do, and one day will do, and until they jorge can throw rocks at me
[15:12] <rick_h_> local charms will work this week though
[15:12] <lazyPower> I understand the feeling all to well my friend. I'll resync after release, its got a good application during the review process
[15:12] <lazyPower> xdg-open and dragging it over the canvas doesn't really give a good overview of how it looks
[15:12] <rick_h_> lazyPower: well, if it's a local after this week you can just drag a zip of it over in a live env :)
[15:12] <lazyPower> and we're getting some really *gnarly* icons... complete with neon color schemes. its like an 80's dance party in the queue.
[15:13] <rick_h_> which you need for review anyway I assume?
[15:13] <lazyPower> i do the repository flag +  local: prefix. No zipping here
[15:14] <rick_h_> lazyPower: well, we can change that :)
[15:38] <bac> jujugui: trying to build charm-tools i'm seeing pip die with SSL errors trying to fetch bzr from launchpad.  i suspect it is due to the re-keying, fallout from the OpenSSL problem.  just a fyi in case you see similar.
[15:38] <rick_h_> bac: rgr thanks for the heads up
[15:38] <hatch> rick_h_ ok updated
[15:48] <hatch> kadams54 I'm going to hop on getting huw's branch landed
[16:10] <hatch> hmmm rick_h_  how do you pull down someone elses branch and then update the PR?
[16:10] <hatch> I tried my usual method but no luck...
[16:10] <hatch> do you need to clone their repo?
[16:11] <hatch> lazyPower there has been an update to http://askubuntu.com/questions/445025/cannot-deploy-local-charms-after-juju-upgrade I think it's a bug that he is experiencing...it  should work...
[16:13] <hatch> Makyo in Ubuntu my laptop sounds like your system76, 1000000% fan speed lol
[16:13] <lazyPower> hatch: Error: storm not found in charm store
[16:13] <Makyo> Yikes :)
[16:13] <lazyPower> interesting - i cant charm get it
[16:13] <hatch> lazyPower he is deploying a local charm...
[16:14] <lazyPower> needs more info, di dhe write it? did he branch maarten ecctors charm? whats his repository layout look like?
[16:14] <lazyPower> i've deployed from local repo using 1.18.x for the last 2 days without issue - so i'm pondering on vectors of failure
[16:15] <hatch> ahh, well the error message seems to show that he is using an old version of juju....if he actually is using that command
[16:15] <hatch> so it is confusing
[16:16] <lazyPower> theres a series mismatch on that too
[16:16] <lazyPower> does precise now download the saucy package?
[16:16] <Makyo> hatch, got a second for a hangout?
[16:16] <hatch> Makyo you bet, link?
[16:16] <Makyo> One se
[16:16] <Makyo> c
[16:17] <Makyo> G+ is slooooow
[16:17] <hatch> oo 19 forks of the juju-gui
[16:17] <hatch> a couple I dont' recognize...
[16:18] <Makyo> hatch, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpj2bofe2256ukgemgsuge24?hl=en
[16:25] <hatch> crap CI hung again
[16:27] <hatch> jujugui does anyone know how to update someone elses PR?
[16:27] <rick_h_> hatch: take it over
[16:27] <rick_h_> git qa-pr, change it, push to your origin
[16:28] <hatch> oh push it to my origin
[16:28] <hatch> ok cool
[16:29] <hatch> hmm there was some way to update the actual PR
[16:29] <hatch> now I have to create a new PR....which is fine I suppose
[16:29] <hatch> I know you've done it before....just don't know how haha
[16:32] <hatch> ok new pr created
[16:33] <hatch> rick_h_ I know you're busy but if you could try and squeeze some time to look at my branch so I can move onto the next step that would be awesome......(whatever the next step is...)
[16:34] <rick_h_> wil to hatch
[16:34] <rick_h_> next step is statecontroller dispatcher stuff
[16:36] <hatch> oh ok, new card..
[16:36] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, more of the old card work, tag unsched
[16:48] <hatch> ugh CI!!!!!
[16:49] <rick_h_> hatch: did it hang?
[16:49] <rick_h_> hatch: off my call if you want to chat still
[16:49] <hatch> twice now, the first time was a sauce labs hang, the second time was ERADDRINUSE
[16:49] <rick_h_> hatch: ah, I've got ot kill it then sec
[16:49] <hatch> oh...ok it's running the next tests now
[16:49] <rick_h_> it's supposed to kill it but seems not to
[16:49] <hatch> sure we can chat about this state controller, I've got a few ideas
[16:50] <rick_h_> hatch: k, linky
[16:50] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpitdd3kur5rdfi9bkaqgbms?hl=en
[17:16] <rick_h_> jujugui going afk for food stuffs biab
[17:19] <lazyPower> hatch: confirmed its a bug in 1.18
[17:19] <hatch> todaso
[17:20] <hatch> lazyPower ever seen trailer park boys?
[17:21] <lazyPower> only bubbles vs the bible salesman
[17:21] <hatch> lol
[17:22] <hatch> ahhh such a good series
[17:36] <lazyPower> hatch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1303880
[17:36] <_mup_> Bug #1303880: After upgrade to 1.18, can not deploy local charms <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303880>
[17:37] <hatch> ouch that's a doozie
[17:45] <lazyPower> hatch: workaround is to add series to the deployment
[17:45] <lazyPower> juju deploy --repository=$SOMEPATH local:precise/mysql for example
[17:46] <hatch> ahhh - woops I totally missed that in his command
[17:46] <hatch> I always use the series....I didn't know it was optional heh
[17:48] <hatch> I should answer the question and steal the points
[17:48] <hatch> mohohahaha
[17:50] <rick_h_> lazyPower: isn't that related to the work on the charm store and prep for charms declaring series?
[17:50] <rick_h_> e.g. not really a 1.18 thing but a charm store thing (is that pulled out yet?P
[17:50] <rick_h_> )
[17:53] <lazyPower> rick_h_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/445025/cannot-deploy-local-charms-after-juju-upgrade/445101#445101
[17:53] <_mup_> Bug #445101: package openoffice.org-filter-binfilter (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 <apport-package> <i386> <openoffice.org (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/445101>
[17:53] <lazyPower> _mup_: you have failed me for the last time *forcechoke*
[17:53] <rick_h_> lazyPower: gotcha cool
[18:00] <lazyPower> rick_h_: yeah it doesn't appear to be. A mistaken landing of the new CS code - should be an easy fix. That or a doc update to clear up the ambiguous url bits. I assume that behavior is coming back, but i dont really know.
[18:01] <rick_h_> lazyPower: yea, there was supposed to be some default logic in teh store to handle it I think. Maybe a bug in that, or the updated store didn't get deployed to prod yet
[18:01] <rick_h_> lazyPower: it'd be something to talk to casey about
[18:01] <lazyPower> Right. Marco and sinzui and natefinch are on it. I dont want to dogpile him :)
[18:01] <rick_h_> yep all good
[18:02] <rick_h_> I was just responding to the idea of 'big bug in 1.18' as I kind of thuoght it was almost expected behaviour, but I'm not up on the latest/greatest of what made 1.18 and what did not
[18:04] <hatch> rick_h_ I copied the state object wholesale
[18:04] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, noticed
[18:04] <hatch> so it's all the same code as before which I'll remove/replace as needed
[18:04] <rick_h_> sorry, I dived in to review everything in green and started to go "this isn't right"
[18:05] <rick_h_> hatch: all good, I'm to the good parts now
[18:05] <hatch> sounds good
[18:20] <rick_h_> hatch: looks like one big miss in the branch atm. I'll keep going but I'm not repeating it for each instance. Let me know if we need to chat on it
[18:20] <rick_h_> hatch: or if the comment makes sense
[18:20] <hatch> hmm ok checking
[18:24] <rick_h_> hatch: aside from that looks great!
[18:24] <rick_h_> <3 the tests
[18:32] <hatch> rick_h_ comments replied
[18:32] <rick_h_> hatch: looking
[18:40] <rick_h_> hatch: it seems I thought our conversation went off a different way.
[18:40] <rick_h_> hatch: call?
[18:41] <rick_h_> hatch: I fear that this is going to break once we do chamge objects as a change to sectionA will have to know to touch section B. You'll end up rendering both which I thought we agreed not to do
[18:42] <hatch> sure
[18:42] <hatch> sec ill make a link
[18:42] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpim020konevo66n5lf10fqs?hl=en
[18:49]  * Makyo ducks out to appointment, will propose shortly after.
[18:52] <kadams54> #1 peeve: spending time debugging a one character typo
[18:52] <kadams54> destory != destroy
[19:12] <hatch> haha yeah that does suck
[19:12] <hatch> *caugh*typescript*caugh*
[20:22] <hatch> rick_h_ still around?
[20:22] <rick_h_> hatch: yep
[20:22] <rick_h_> call in 10
[20:22] <rick_h_> what's up?
[20:22] <hatch> https://gist.github.com/hatched/10185566
[20:23] <rick_h_> ooh, purdy
[20:23] <rick_h_> <3
[20:23] <rick_h_> happy with it?
[20:23] <hatch> excellent, I'll finish it up
[20:23] <hatch> yup
[20:23] <hatch> much better
[20:23] <hatch> thx
[20:23] <rick_h_> cool, thank you for the clean up, much nicer to read imo
[20:24] <hatch> yeah - I think I like this api design too, it could also be _addToSection('a', 'charmbrowser', this._parseCharmUrl()) but I think the explicit vars is nice
[20:24] <rick_h_> yep
[20:25] <hatch> wish js had real named params
[20:25] <hatch> but oh well
[20:25] <hatch> this works
[20:25] <rick_h_> and works well
[20:25] <rick_h_> so all good
[20:29] <kadams54> jujugui heading out to take a sunshine break. Will be back in a bit.
[20:29] <rick_h_> kadams54: have fun
[20:29] <kadams54> Solar powered coding
[20:29] <rick_h_> woot
[20:30] <hatch> haha
[20:30] <hatch> it's still way to dirty/dusty out for outsideness here
[20:30] <hatch> in a week or so I -may- be able to start washing things
[20:30] <rick_h_> I want to hire a street cleaner to come by
[20:30] <rick_h_> it's a mess out
[20:31] <hatch> yeah - we live pretty close to a high traffic road so the salt/grime settles in the snow and when it all melts then it leaves a gross film over everything
[21:09] <hatch> 3PM, it's mewzaq time!
[21:23] <hatch> hmm lots of edge cases being exposed now
[21:30] <hatch> jujugui do we have a method somewhere for building a nested object? leaving values which currently exist alone?
[21:31] <hatch> ex) var a = { b: {g:{}}}; someMethod('a.b.c.d'); ?
[21:54] <hatch> in case anyone is wondering Y.namespace.call(rootObject, 'path.to.create'); works like a charm
[21:54] <hatch> and those darn urls are finished
[21:54] <hatch> landing that branch finally!
[22:13] <Makyo> That's cool, hatch.  A little magical, maybe, but neat.
[22:14] <hatch> Makyo yeah the key is right here http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/files/yui_js_yui.js.html#l1375
[22:14] <Makyo> Awesome
[22:15] <Makyo> While I'm at it, I have the inspector stuff working as we discussed, but have been puzzling over tests for a bit.
[22:15] <Makyo> There don't seem to be many tests for _deployCallbackHandler, so I'm starting from scratch.
[22:16] <hatch> hmm darn
[22:16] <Makyo> Or, well, any.
[22:17] <Makyo> But I'll get it proposed tonight with at least the test for what I've written.
[22:17] <Makyo> I think that's an artifact of the move to inspectors.
[22:17] <Makyo> i.e. the rest of the functionality is tested in a more functional/less unit type of testing
[22:18] <Makyo> The problems of testing async code, I guess.
[22:18] <hatch> ahh - I think that's old code too
[22:18] <hatch> man we really need a better test suite heh
[22:18] <Makyo> Yeah. The file is new, so blame is off, but it's obviously been moved from other locations, since it's some of the original notification code.
[22:19] <hatch> maybe for xmas 2014 we'll be able to give ourselves a new test suite haha
[22:19] <hatch> ahh yeah
[22:19] <hatch> this looks amazing
[22:19] <hatch> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/healbe-gobe-the-only-way-to-automatically-measure-calorie-intake
[22:19] <hatch> if it's real/works.....
[22:20] <Makyo> Rock on!
[22:20] <hatch> I'm super tempted to pick one up....
[22:21] <Makyo> A friend of mine is all jaded about the quantified self movement.
[22:21] <hatch> yeah? I think it's so darn cool
[22:21] <Makyo> He works at Mozilla, but used to work at Linden Labs on Secondlife, so he's jaded about quite a bit.
[22:21] <hatch> I want to be able to query all my vitals in a db lol
[22:21] <hatch> rofl
[22:21] <Makyo> He was recently railing on http://www.factmag.com/2014/03/28/lightwave-wristband-tells-djs-if-the-crowd-are-having-a-good-time-and-is-a-stupid-stupid-idea/
[22:22] <hatch> I never did understand secondlife
[22:22] <hatch> lol!
[22:23] <hatch> they could use that to see how much E is being sold....lol!
[22:23] <Makyo> It's such a bitter article :D
[22:23] <hatch>  (warning: contains strong Electric Daisy Carnival vibes):
[22:23] <hatch> haha
[22:25] <Makyo> Not quite sure what to make of Fact. I found http://www.factmag.com/2014/04/07/stream-eric-holms-astonishing-new-subtext-album-andoya/ through it, which is ridiculous, and somehow also awesome.
[22:25]  * Makyo anyway, back to work.
[22:26] <hatch> liiiistening
[22:26] <Makyo> If you're into ambient, the albums linked to early on are also great.
[22:26] <Makyo> Sort of...Stars Of The Lid does drums.
[22:26] <hatch> annnnd nope!
[22:26] <Makyo> Hahaha
[22:27] <hatch> maybe if I was just chillin out, but I don't do that often
[22:27] <Makyo> No, you don't :)
[22:28] <hatch> rick_h_ also my horizontal two finger scroll works in Ubuntu....(you mentioned you had issues with that) so maybe you should do a update/upgrade and it may work now
[23:04] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:22] <hatch> morning huwshimi
[23:22] <hatch> your branch has been landed
[23:22] <hatch> we weren't sure where you left off last night
[23:25] <huwshimi> hatch: Ah, great, thanks :)
[23:26] <hatch> make sure you update the board so we know which card we can't take in the morning :)


[21:35] <lapion> Hi, as of the last month approximately caja cannot handle folders on multi -display desktops where the main display a resolution has of 1080p and the 2 displays to the right of it are 1440p
[21:39] <lapion> in such a configuration whichever display is set as primary will be exempt of containing files/folders/drives etc..