[00:18] <ccheney> how do you flush your dns cache in ubuntu?
[00:19] <lifeless> ccheney: what dns cache
[00:20] <ccheney> i thought there was some sort of dns cache at the system level, maybe my problem is actually arp cache instead
[00:20] <BUGabundo> restarting networking ?
[00:21] <ccheney> my system can't connect to gtalk claiming no route to host i think due to it trying to connect before i authenticated with AP at the hotel
[00:21] <lifeless> there is an arp cache
[00:21] <lifeless> no route to host - you can see your route table by
[00:21] <lifeless> ip route
[00:21] <lifeless> you can get no route errors two ways
[00:21] <lifeless> no route locally
[00:21] <ccheney> yea just pidgin claims it not eg firefox
[00:22] <ccheney> or ssh, etc
[00:22] <lifeless> a router somewhere else sending back an ICMP error
[00:22] <BUGabundo> ccheney: restart pidgin ?
[00:22] <lifeless> routers can do that when they have no route. *or* when they don't want to let the traffic through
[00:23] <ccheney> BUGabundo: it seems to not help restarting pidgin, i'll try rebooting my system to see if it changes
[00:23] <BUGabundo> ccheney: that's a bit extreme
[00:23] <BUGabundo> even for 10 sec boot systems
[00:23] <BUGabundo> eheh
[00:24] <BUGabundo> try restarting networking
[00:25] <ccheney> hmm even total reboot didn't help :(
[00:25]  * ccheney kicks the hotel
[00:28] <BUGabundo> ccheney: mtr it ?
[00:29] <pochu> ccheney: you should be using empathy anyway ;)
[00:29] <ccheney> pochu: i'm using jaunty
[00:29] <ccheney> i can see talk.google.com
[00:29] <BUGabundo> not an excusse eheeh
[00:29] <ccheney> with mtr
[00:30] <BUGabundo> there is a PPA for empaty trunk
[00:30] <BUGabundo> hey pochu
[00:30] <BUGabundo> ccheney: ahhh pidgin updates?
[00:30] <BUGabundo> check for the record on the server tab
[00:32] <ccheney> hmm no pidgin updates available for me, i'm mostly up to date (as of sat night)
[00:32] <ccheney> it was working at the office too, so i think they are just blocking it somehow at the hotel
[00:32] <ccheney> it was working last night though so its a bit weird
[00:33]  * ccheney heads off to dinner, bbl
[00:33] <BUGabundo> ccheney: try https://imo.im
[00:34] <ccheney> BUGabundo: thanks
[00:35] <BUGabundo> np
[00:36]  * ccheney heads out now to dinner
[02:08] <cleary> hi - I hope I've got the right channel for my question, please redirect me if not -
[02:10] <cleary> I'm in the process of customising a desktop gnome environment based on jaunty - the customisations need to packaged, and I'd prefer to try and get this more correct than not
[02:11] <cleary> currently, I have replaced the ubuntu-artwork and ubuntu-wallpapers packages, providing modified gconf keys
[02:11] <cleary> so that takes care of the various themes and the desktop background
[02:11] <cleary> I need to make some fairly drastic changes to the panel though
[02:12] <ScottK> This is not the channel you are looking for.
[02:12] <cleary> currently, the panel layout seems to be controlled from the gnome-panel-data package, which provides two files
[02:13] <cleary> /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries and /usr/share/gconf/defaults/05_panel-default-setup.entries
[02:14] <cleary> my panel changes basically mean I remove the top panel and move relevant applets to the bottom panel
[02:15] <cleary> so I need to override those default files somehow (without modifying them directly, preferably)
[02:16] <cleary> I know I can provide my own 90_foo.entries file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
[02:17] <cleary> however, because I don't plan to use the top panel gconf entry at all, I'm wondering if the 05_...entries file will still create it
[02:17] <cleary> what is the safest way for me to override these setting?
[02:17] <cleary> ScottK: sorry - completely missed your bit
[02:17] <cleary> ScottK: got a suggestion where I could go?
[02:18] <cleary> the problem is, this stuff seems to be distro specific
[02:19] <ScottK> Not particularly, but that's definitlely not development of Ubuntu.
[02:19] <ScottK> I think there is an #ubuntu-installer channel.
[02:20] <cleary> is there a desktop development focussed channel?
[02:20] <cleary> +gnome even
[02:23] <cleary> nvm, I'll have a look at #ubuntu-installer, and see if there's any relevant debian channels
[02:23] <cleary> thanks
[02:38] <pam> cjwatson: Thanks for the pointers. I am trying to test my merged syslinux package. The Ubuntu (non-Suse: 12-, 13- and 14- ones) gfxboot patches can't apply to the new comboot16 module and upstream doesn't know if they are still relevant. Testing this whole thing is kind of tricky actually :) For reference: http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2009-July/012866.html
[06:01] <talltomWA> I just got done with a computer sci degree and am looking to take up an open source project, any ideas on where to start
[06:44] <pitti> Good morning
[06:51] <pitti> slangasek: you rock!
[06:52] <pitti> slangasek: want me to accept gvfs for hardy-proposed now, or stall everything until after .3 was released?
[07:04] <\sh> moins
[07:07] <maxb> liw: Hello. Does apt-sync/zsync apply in any way to Packages files, or is it just about .deb files ?
[07:21] <anilg> I've multiple repositories in my sources.list.. how do I print the packages in one particular repository (say a launchpad ppa repo)?
[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[07:24]  * slangasek wavse
[07:24] <maxb> anilg: Hi, that's not really a development question (as the topic says: "Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu)"). You'd be better placed asking that in #ubuntu. (Though ftr I don't think there is any command for this, and I'd probably resort to applying grep-ctrl to apt's raw lists files)
[07:25] <ogra> hmm, why dont we have a proper commandline interface to tasksel ...
[07:25]  * ogra cant belive nobody ever wrote something like that
[07:25]  * dholbach wavse to slangasek too
[07:25] <anilg> maxb: thanks.. I did try #ubuntu
[07:25]  * ogra joins the wavsing to slangasek
[07:28] <StevenK> ogra: We do, apt-get
[07:29] <ogra> StevenK, apt-get can make me a list of available tasks ?
[07:29]  * ogra checks the docs ... thats news to me
[07:32] <StevenK> ogra: grep '^Task: ' /var/lib/apt/lists/silver.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*_binary-*_Packages | cut -d\  -f2- | tr ',' '\n' | sed -e 's/^ //' | sort -u
[07:32] <ogra> lol
[07:33] <ogra> well, then i rather parse /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc :)
[07:33] <ogra> and depend on tasksel data
[07:34] <StevenK> ogra: For what?
[07:34] <ogra> rootstock
[07:34] <StevenK> Ah
[07:35] <ogra> i want to show a gtk list with available tasks plus a textfield where you can add sinle packages as csv list before you fire up the build
[07:36] <ogra> so what i was actually lookinf for was something like "tasksel --list-tasks" and "tasksel --list-taks-descriptions" to just feed into the list :)
[07:36] <StevenK> ogra: /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc will show you the *hosts* tasksel list, not the targets
[07:37] <ogra> the target doesnt exist at that point
[07:37] <StevenK> ogra: For the example of running rootstock on a Jaunty machine, but building a Karmic root
[07:38] <ogra> hmm, yeah, i probably shuld pull the packages list from the archive and use your approach ...
[07:38] <ogra> prob is that this changes my UI approach :/
[07:39] <ogra> since i need to know the target release before doing that ...
[07:40] <StevenK> ogra: You can pre-populate it, given data on the running system first.
[07:40] <ogra> indeed, thats what i do anyway
[07:40] <StevenK> ogra: But the task list might change if you're building for Karmic.
[07:40] <StevenK> Actually, it *will* change, I can think of two tasks that Karmic has and Jaunty doesn't.
[07:41] <ogra> by default it builds ubuntu-minimal and pulls all other data (locale, kbd settings etc) from the host
[07:43]  * ogra ponders how to make that switchable on the fly without ending up with something like a wizard UI
[07:45] <dholbach> ogra: mtp loves wizards!
[07:46] <dholbach> mpt
[07:46] <ogra> hmm, i should probably make the script stop generating *all* en_* locales inside qemu-system-arm ... might speed it up a bit
[07:46] <ogra> dholbach, oh, since when ?
[07:46] <ogra> i always thought he didnt :)
[07:46] <dholbach> didn't you see the wizard costume he was wearing in Boston?
[07:46] <ogra> heh
[07:51] <ogra> hrm, why did my trap code in the script stop working
[07:57] <nikolam> I have a problem with menu.lst
[07:57] <nikolam> Every time hardy updates kernel it mess up the grup option for testing ubuntu instalaltion
[07:57] <nikolam> and vice versa
[07:57] <YokoZar> dholbach: I propose that all Fall UDSes that are in the US overlap halloween
[07:58] <dholbach> YokoZar: I'm not sure I'm the right person to talk to :)
[07:58] <YokoZar> Failing that, they should end with a costume party
[07:58] <nikolam> I am editing menu.lst for Every kernel update on testing or stable since 6.10 and I am finally sick of it
[07:59] <nikolam> sorry I maybe should post this ono ubuntu or ubuntu+1, sorry.
[08:00] <YokoZar> btw dholbach, are there plans to let the 5-a-day stats page apply to individuals again?  It's been "groups only" for a long time now
[08:00] <dholbach> YokoZar: bdmurray is working on that
[08:01] <dholbach> YokoZar: it needs an RT ticket resolved because we need to process HUGE amounts of data
[08:01] <YokoZar> ahh ok
[08:02] <dholbach> like all ubuntu-bugs@ archives :)
[08:02] <dholbach> the code is open
[08:02] <dholbach> so if you want to help out, that's cool
[08:03] <dholbach> hey mdz
[08:06] <TheMuso> c
[08:08] <mdz_> dholbach, hi
[08:09]  * maxb boots intrepid and experiences nostalgia for how pretty it was :-/
[08:10] <ogra> nostalgia ?
[08:11] <maxb> usplash and notifications were both prettier in intrepid than jaunty/karmic, IMO
[08:11] <ogra> well ... but its not even a year old
[08:12] <ogra> boot a warty or hoary liveCD ... thats nostalgic :)
[08:12] <maxb> I was running jaunty from alpha 3, intrepid seems a long time ago :-)
[08:15] <hile> about names, just curious: so what will happen when ubuntu runs out of latin alphabet in release names? too far away to think about this?
[08:15] <maxb> That will not be until 2017....
[08:16] <highvoltage> the 2K17 bug. very serious stuff indeed.
[08:16] <hile> need a committee to solve the issue!
[08:16] <ogra> we will have taken over the world by then ... we'll just anhance the latin alphabet
[08:16] <ogra> *enhance
[08:17] <hile> that's a good plan
[08:17] <highvoltage> hile: I guess it will start over with unpronouncable letters. and then you'll call it things like "the distribution formerly known as hoary"
[08:18] <maxb> I dunno, I quite like the sound of "Ancestral Alligator"
[08:46] <seb128> slangasek, \o/ for fixing the gvfs samba issue
[08:47] <slangasek> seb128: thanks for your help setting me on the right track!
[08:47] <seb128> ;-)
[08:53] <dholbach> ¡¡¡ please everybody help to clean up http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ !!! :-)
[09:02] <liw> maxb, why ask in multiple forums, making sure that people miss the answer? I will answer via e-mail
[09:02] <Q-FUNK> howdy!  could someone with upload rights please merge the two attached maintainer scripts at LP bug #399482 ?
[09:04] <RAOF> Q-FUNK: Doesn't that say "fix released"?
[09:10] <Q-FUNK> RAOF: it was entirely the wrong fix.
[09:37] <ogra> Keybuk, erm, did the behavior of reboot change with upstart 0.6 ?
[09:38] <ogra> Keybuk, reboot -fp doesnt see to do what it did before in my qemu-system-arm VM
[09:38] <ogra> *seem
[09:55] <Keybuk> ogra: what do you mean?
[09:57] <wincide> hi all, i would appreciate an answer if someone know something about return codes when launching some proccesses... When i run some proccess and it finish its task, sometimes the return code in the terminal is like [1]   Done    |         [3]-  Done             or       [9]+  Exit 251
[09:57] <ogra> Keybuk, i'm running a script that bootstraps a base system into a qemu image, fires up the image with a shellscript to proceed the second stage bootstrap and set up some stuff ... in the end the sript calls reboot -f which doesnt seem to behave like it did before
[09:57] <Mez> ok, that's a major bug, gksu no longer works.
[09:57] <ogra> it uses init=<path to script> and indeed doesnt invoke upstart
[09:57] <wincide> i dont know the differences among [1] or a - / + after the number, or the exit code sometimes with + and other times with -   ..
[09:58] <liw> wincide, it's your shell outputting those, so a good first step would be its documentation ("man bash" if you're using that), even if it is intimidating
[09:59] <Keybuk> ogra: "doesn't seem to behave like it did before" ?
[09:59] <Keybuk> this is what I'm trying confused about
[09:59] <ogra> Keybuk, the vm doesnt shut down
[09:59] <Keybuk> did you try strace reboot -f ?
[10:00] <ogra> tricky to do in that setup
[10:01] <ogra> but i just had an insane idea, i can kill the vm from the outside after debootstrap is done with its second stage, do a normal boot and make the configuration script an upstart job :)
[10:02] <smb> hi, is currently someone around who knows a bit more on the userspace side of v4l1->v4l2 transition and applications only capable of v4l1. There is a regression bug on the kernel side (bug 352765) which I believe is rather tied to the applications and the compat lib.
[10:04] <Keybuk> ogra: reboot -f/poweroff -f really don't do much other than call the reboot() syscall
[10:04] <ogra> Keybuk, ok, i thought they might try to route that through upstart or so now
[10:04] <wincide> thx liw, buy i've reading all the bash man, and the closest term related to what i trying to find out, is just the number of proccess launched, but ,anything about this kind of return codes with + - or exit with + or - ....
[10:04] <Keybuk> ogra: no, only if you don't call with -f
[10:04] <ogra> the thing is that the kernel and VM are the same as before, only the image content is karmic
[10:05] <Keybuk> without -f they call shutdown
[10:05] <ogra> so its some software thats blocking here
[10:05] <Daviey> Keybuk: Is this a good time to start thinking about switiching from init.d scripts to upstart?
[10:05] <ogra> but i think i'll go with abusing upstart as installer, thats a funny idea
[10:06] <ogra> and will actually give me all initscripts out of the box instead of me having to invoke them from the script one by one
[10:06] <Keybuk> Daviey: to a limited degree, yes
[10:07] <ogra> Keybuk, is there a limitation on the amount of runlevels or could i just add a runlevel 7 or 8 ?
[10:07] <Keybuk> ogra: there are no runlevels 7 or 8
[10:07] <Daviey> Keybuk: thanks.
[10:07] <Keybuk> use 3, 4 or 5 - they're spare
[10:07] <ogra> Keybuk, no, i want them to stay untouched
[10:08] <Keybuk> you could use a different event than runlevel
[10:08] <ogra> being able to add runlevel 7 and just dump my job scripts in there would be cool
[10:09] <ogra> and delete everything related to 7 after i'm done
[10:09] <cjwatson> pam: I'm a bit confused. Why not just start with the working assumption that the upstream gfxboot module is sufficient, and test that? You could test for screen-clearing after 'localboot' (i.e. "Boot from first hard disk") easily enough, and I'd be surprised if force-prompt weren't handled upstream since otherwise it doesn't work very well with the standard menu system
[10:09] <ogra> hmm
[10:10] <cjwatson> pam: surely we shouldn't be getting a reputation of asking upstream to support Ubuntu's changes; that's bad form
[10:11] <cjwatson> wincide: it's described in the "JOB CONTROL" section of the bash manual page, specifically towards the end of the paragraph starting with "There are a number of ways to refer to jobs in the shell"
[10:12] <wincide> im taking a look again, lets check it... thx
[10:14] <ogra> Keybuk, oh, i suspect its even easier, i could just temporary replace /etc/init/rcS.conf
[10:15] <ogra> and call my config the same way sulogin is started
[10:16] <ogra> wow, thats so insane that i actually start to like it :)
[10:21] <Keybuk> you could do that
[10:21] <Keybuk> though that would mean forcing start into single-user mode
[10:25] <ogra> Keybuk, thats fine what bothers me since a while is that my script needs to invoke all the rcS stuff, thats error prone, using upstart works around that :)
[10:26] <ogra> and i can properly shut down
[10:26] <Keybuk> ogra: the rcS stuff?  your script needs the recovery menu?
[10:27] <ogra> no, but mounted / and proc etc etc
[10:27] <Keybuk> ah, I see your confusing
[10:27] <Keybuk> rcS.conf is for what to do *while* in single-user mode
[10:27] <Keybuk> not the sysinit scripts
[10:27] <ogra> oh, k
[10:27] <Keybuk> (which Debian always confusingly put in rcS.d)
[10:27] <Keybuk> rc-sysinit.conf is the one you want to look at
[10:27] <ogra> ok, will do
[10:28] <Keybuk> it runs rcS.d
[10:28] <Keybuk> then runs telinit to switch to the next runlevel
[10:28] <ogra> yep i see
[10:28] <ogra> oh and telinit dies with my test image :/
[10:29] <Keybuk> "dies" ?
[10:30] <ogra> yeah
[10:30] <ogra> but the image seems corrupt as well
[10:30] <ogra> grmbl
[10:30] <Keybuk> do you have a core dump?
[10:31] <ogra> telinit "did not recieve a reply etc etc"
[10:32] <ogra> i guess its the kernel i use for the VM
[10:32]  * ogra tries with a jaunty versatile one
[10:35] <wincide> bye, thx for all
[10:35] <ogra> weird, same issue
[10:44] <ogra> Keybuk, was a corrupted fs ...
[10:44] <ogra> works with a different image
[10:45] <Keybuk> good to know
[10:47] <ogra_> grmbl
[10:47] <ogra_> whats up with my network today
[11:19] <cody-somerville> Ummm... why was a package seemingly just accepted into the jaunty release pocket?
[11:20] <cody-somerville> oh, uploads to partner get sent to jaunty-changes too
[11:20] <ogra> cody-somerville, partner archive ?
[11:20] <ogra> yeah
[11:27] <ogra> udevd[9589]: udev: missing sysfs features; please update the kernel or disable the kernel's CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED option; udev may fail to work correctly
[11:27] <ogra> mumble
[11:33] <james_w> quadrispro: around?
[11:37] <quadrispro> james_w: hi james
[11:37] <james_w> hi
[11:38] <james_w> I'm looking at ncurses
[11:38] <james_w> what does "Install wide-character patches into /{,usr/}lib32." mean?
[11:39] <quadrispro> james_w: only a moment, bug?
[11:39] <quadrispro> found
[11:39] <enrico> mvo: I saw your patch, I've been overly busy these days, I'll take care of it now
[11:39] <quadrispro> bug 399625
[11:43] <quadrispro> james_w: nothing, maybe I forgot to do some change... i'm checking it (and unsubscribing sponsors team for now)
[11:44] <james_w> quadrispro: thanks
[11:44] <james_w> it looks as though that changelog entry might have just been carried forwards for lots of uploads when it wasn't needed
[11:50] <mvo> enrico: thanks, no problem about the delay
[11:55] <dpm> StevenK: what do you think about the reply from fbreader upstream regarding their contributor guidelines, is this going to be a problem? -> http://www.fbreader.org/docs/contributions.php
[12:01] <enrico> mvo: uploaded, thanks a lot for the patch"
[12:01] <enrico> s/"/!/
[12:04] <mvo> enrico: cool, thanks!
[12:33] <ogra> oh
[12:34] <ogra> did the initscripts massively change in karmic ?
[12:34] <ogra> especially the stop tasks in them ?
[13:35] <cjwatson> seb128: could somebody please add a versioned Replaces on gnome-session to gnome-session-bin? I don't really want to accept the package in NEW since the missing Replaces will cause problems
[13:35] <seb128> cjwatson, will do, thanks for noticing
[13:35] <cjwatson> ta
[13:39] <seb128> cjwatson, in fact isn't the Conflicts enough?
[13:40] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm not convinced
[13:40] <seb128> cjwatson, I think Josselin argued before that using Conflicts only is enough and will assure things are upgraded in the right order
[13:40] <cjwatson> the safe rule is *always* to add a Replaces and it does no harm
[13:41] <seb128> right, I'm doing that, I just failed to convince Josselin apparently during previous discussions
[13:41] <seb128> I will ping him again about that
[13:41] <cjwatson> is Conflicts actually necessary? it makes the upgrade painful
[13:41] <cjwatson> using Conflicts means the old gnome-session package has to be entirely removed before installing the new gnome-session-bin
[13:42] <seb128> well I would say only Replaces is required
[13:42] <cjwatson> if possible, it would be better to use Replaces plus maybe Breaks
[13:42] <seb128> Breaks is not required, it's really a Replaces situation I think
[13:43] <cjwatson> right, in that case it's probably just the old-fashioned confusion between Conflicts and Replaces
[13:43] <seb128> yes
[13:43] <cjwatson> it's possible that he's technically right that Conflicts is enough, but it's definitely a suboptimal way to do it
[13:46] <seb128> cjwatson, Replaces version uploaded, you can accept the binaries now the Conflicts should work too or wait for the new build
[13:46] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[13:46] <seb128> np, thanks for checking the binaries and letting me know about the issue
[13:49] <ivoks> could someone finally fix lvm2 bug 246324 ; it's trivial and makes life easier...
[13:52] <lool> pitti: I've pushed a seed change to desktop-common to pull apmd on armel; apmd was demoted from main to universe in karmic, so I don't think I need a MIR to promote it back, do I?
[13:53] <cjwatson> ivoks: done
[13:53] <ivoks> cjwatson: awsome; thanks
[13:59] <pitti> lool: right, we can just re-promote it; I just thought it was horribly outdated and ditched it from main
[13:59] <lool> pitti: The Marvell SoC we target for karmic will rely on APM, yeah!
[14:00] <lool> pitti: (I discovered that 10 minutes ago BTW)
[14:00] <pitti> modern!
[14:01]  * ogra wonders if devicekit-power can do APM at all
[14:27] <mvo> enrico: did you push your upload to git yet?
[14:36] <c_korn> is fast-user-switch-applet being dropped in karmic?
[14:37] <enrico> mvo: ah, right, I forgot
[14:38] <enrico> mvo: done.
[14:38] <mvo> thanks!
[14:42] <pitti> james_w: thanks for the package branch announcement
[14:42] <seb128> c_korn, it's in gdm now
[14:43] <pitti> james_w: one thing that's not quite clear to me, should the official brnaches be committed/pushed to, or are they read-only and only an auto-import?
[14:43] <james_w> they should be pushed to
[14:43] <james_w> you just can't yet
[14:43] <james_w> see the part about permissions
[14:43] <pitti> james_w: ah, so right now, they are read-only
[14:43] <james_w> yeah
[14:43] <pitti> james_w: other question, should they only be full-source, or packaging-only branches as well?
[14:44] <james_w> so any commit you do are just "squashed" in to one
[14:44] <james_w> full-source is the one true way!
[14:44] <cjwatson> there was discussion at UDS of how to incorporate history from older packaging-only branches
[14:45] <didrocks> pitti: I think we will have to update our desktop team workflow progressively to full-source branches :)
[14:45] <pitti> james_w: right, but both debian and ubuntu have a huge set of packaging-only branches
[14:45] <c_korn> seb128: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/18739/screenshot_003_qv7BQY.png you mean that?
[14:45] <pitti> and at this point they are still better than using the auto-imports
[14:46] <pitti> didrocks: yes, probably
[14:46] <james_w> why are they better?
[14:46] <seb128> c_korn, yes, cf gdm changelog for details
[14:46] <seb128> c_korn, the ubuntu changes need to be ported to the gdm version
[14:46] <james_w> (not being argumentative, I'd like to fix the issues)
[14:46] <seb128> c_korn, what you have now is the upstream variant, tedg is working on porting the ubuntu changes
[14:47] <seb128> didrocks, no; no change in the ubuntu desktop workflow
[14:47] <gnomefreak> ah that explains the depends on gdm
[14:47] <cjwatson> pitti: (FWIW there is no harm in continuing to use the old packaging-only branches outside the lp:ubuntu/karmic/ namespace until such time as the full-source branches are good enough)
[14:47] <didrocks> seb128: not now, just when the branches will be ready to use (not read only as of now), don't you think?
[14:48] <seb128> didrocks, we have something working I think we should not be the first to run in new things, we have enough to do without fighting tools and learning new way every week
[14:48] <didrocks> seb128: I can't agree more :)
[14:52] <seb128> james_w, one thing better with packaging only in vcs is the time it takes to fetch the source
[14:53] <seb128> james_w, it takes over 15 minutes to get the nautilus source there where it takes 1 minutes to get the tarball and the debian dir from a vcs
[14:53] <james_w> yes
[14:53] <djsiegel_> StevenK: what's happening with https://launchpad.net/about-window ?
[14:53] <james_w> I don't think that should be the only deciding factor though, and it is something that is being worked on and has improved a lot.
[14:54] <seb128> james_w, well it's a matter of pro and con, and that's an annoying con without any real pro for full source in what we do now
[14:54] <james_w> well, let me try and convince you of the pros
[14:56] <seb128> james_w, ok ;-)
[14:56] <james_w> seb128: nautilus isn't imported yet, and I'd like to do an experiment
[14:56] <james_w> any other package of a similar size you work with a lot?
[14:57] <seb128> james_w, gnome-control-center?
[14:57] <james_w> nope :-)
[14:58] <james_w> seems a lot of gnome isn't done yet :-)
[14:58] <seb128> gtk+2.0 is a bit an extreme example
[14:58] <seb128> gedit?
[14:58] <seb128> or gvfs
[14:58] <djsiegel_> pitti: scott ritchie reports that pcspkr sounds have been replaced with normal alert sounds in karmic https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/77010
[14:58] <seb128> gvfs is recent though
[14:58] <pitti> djsiegel_: indeed, I saw his comment
[14:58] <pitti> didn't check on that bug yet, though
[14:58] <seb128> james_w, rhythmbox? just pick anything desktopish... ;-)
[14:58] <djsiegel_> pitti: glory glory hallelujah
[14:59] <pam> cjwatson: This is what I am trying to do (test if the patches are still relevant). About the mail: since Stefen is rewritting the patch again in C, just wanted to ping him about these fixes and incorporate them in the new version if necessary.
[14:59] <djsiegel_> pitti: ok, I will check and mark fixed when I get a chance, should have a machine to test tomorrow
[14:59] <cjwatson> pam: why not just plug it into an existing image and see if it works? :)
[15:00] <pam> I don't have access to the C version yet, not released AFAIK
[15:00] <pam> cjwatson: for the com16, sure
[15:01] <cjwatson> kirkland: why am I getting the motd every time I start a terminal window? that's incredibly annoying
[15:02] <james_w> seb128: empathy 38s vs 9s, so still some work to do
[15:03] <james_w> seb128: but when there's a new one to grab it should be quicker in bzr
[15:03] <seb128> james_w, that's already quite good my tests there where rather 10 times slower
[15:03] <james_w> that's why we are using the new format :-)
[15:03] <seb128> well there is a limit anyway which is the quantity of information you need to get
[15:04] <seb128> even git which is reputed to be fast is some 6-7 times slower than getting just the source in tarball
[15:04] <seb128> all the commits history is quite some datas
[15:16] <kirkland> cjwatson: that will go away as soon as slangasek accepts the pam_motd patch
[15:17] <kirkland> cjwatson: rm /etc/profile.d/update-motd.sh if you can't wait
[15:17] <kirkland> cjwatson: update-motd package going away, see ubuntu-devel@ mailing list
[15:18]  * kirkland -> returns to his holiday
[15:28] <StevenK> djsiegel_: You know, that's been stalled for about 5 releases?
[15:28] <djsiegel_> StevenK: yes I know
[15:29] <djsiegel_> StevenK: do you have any interest or bandwidth to unstall it?
[15:34] <cjwatson> kirkland: ok, thanks
[15:46]  * manjo moving to ubuntu-kernel as per rtg's command
[16:27] <fta> pitti, how long does it take to have a -dbgsym for a package? (say libdbus-1-3-dbgsym)
[16:29] <pitti> fta: until it's on ddebs.u.c.? Should be within 6 hours
[16:30] <pitti> 8, actually
[16:30] <pitti> 10 3,11,19 * * *
[16:30] <fta> pitti, hm, ok. thanks. i guess i'll wait
[16:30] <fta> 19:10, is that UTC?
[16:31] <jpds> Probably London.
[16:31] <pitti> BST
[16:31] <pitti> so, 1810 UTC
[16:31] <fta> less than 3h.. ok, thanks
[16:43] <slangasek> Keybuk: I see that upstart 0.6 provides /lib/init/upstart-job, but there's no Provides: upstart-job; oversight?  want a bug report?
[16:44] <Keybuk> slangasek: ah, yes please
[16:45] <mbiebl> Should also have a Conflicts/Replaces I guess
[16:46] <Keybuk> yeah should be a super-switch thing
[16:46] <Keybuk> mbiebl: btw. did you get any further with the "better" upstart-job than my hacky shell script?
[16:47] <mbiebl> It's not much better, but it has support for being called by /etc/rc?.d/???servicename
[16:47] <mbiebl> and it also tries to much all action that are supposed to be available (like force-reload)
[16:47] <mbiebl> to corresponding upstart actions
[16:49] <slangasek> mbiebl: should it?  we shouldn't ever have more than one upstart-job implementation on a given arch?
[16:50] <Keybuk> mbiebl: can you file a bug and attach it?
[16:50] <Keybuk> slangasek: upstart vs. sysvinit both providing it
[16:50] <slangasek> since when is sysvinit going to provide it?  I thought the alternative implementation was going to be built from upstart source
[16:50] <mbiebl> yeah, the idea was to provide a upstart-job implementation for sysvinit
[16:50] <slangasek> since it needs to understand upstart job formats
[16:51] <mbiebl> for people that don't want (or can make) the switch
[16:52] <mbiebl> can't make, meaning upstart is not yet available on their arch
[16:52] <slangasek> ah, I forgot that we were giving people a choice in some cases. :)
[16:53] <Keybuk> right, but there are two alternate implementations in Debian
[16:53] <Keybuk> or at least will be
[16:53] <mbiebl> this alternate implementation is giving me some headaches though.
[16:54] <mbiebl> not sure yet, how the stop action can be implemented
[16:58] <slangasek> mbiebl: killall5 should be fine
[16:58] <mbiebl> slangasek: I switched to #pkg-sysvinit
[17:31] <kees> pitti: do you have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-karmic-apport-abort on your schedule?  I'd like to start using that feature now that it's in glibc.
[17:33] <ogra> Keybuk, "init: rc-sysinit main process (380) killed by TERM signal" ... i assume i'm missing a kernel feature (fiddling with qemu arm kernels) would anything strike you as something i could miss from the top of your head ?
[17:33] <ogra> apart from that message the VM works perfectly fine
[17:34] <Keybuk> ogra: when did you receive that message?
[17:35] <ogra> Keybuk, when the login prompt shows up
[17:35] <Keybuk> "the login prompt" ?
[17:35] <ogra>  * Setting up console font and keymap...                                 [ OK ]
[17:35] <ogra>  * Starting system log daemon...                                                init: rc-sysinit main process (380) killed by TERM signal
[17:35] <ogra>                                                                          [ OK ]
[17:35] <ogra>  * Starting kernel log daemon...                                         [ OK ]
[17:35] <ogra> Ubuntu karmic (development branch) dove ttyAMA0
[17:35] <ogra> dove login: test
[17:36] <ogra> thats the boot (through a serial console)
[17:37] <Keybuk> ah right
[17:37] <Keybuk> it's just what was in the syslog buffer then
[17:37] <ogra> ah
[17:37] <ogra> so it actually died before
[17:37] <Keybuk> yeah, when it ran telinit
[17:38] <ogra> hmm
[17:38] <ogra> telinit itself didnt spill a message though
[17:39] <Keybuk> why would it?
[17:39] <ogra> because there is a stderr ?
[17:39] <Keybuk> no, I mean why are you expecting an error from telinit
[17:40] <ogra> because rc-sysinit gets killed and you said its caused by telinit ?
[17:41]  * ogra has the feeling he doesnt get it
[17:41] <Keybuk> rc-sysinit has
[17:41] <Keybuk>   stop on runlevel
[17:41] <Keybuk> the last command that rc-sysinit runs is
[17:41] <Keybuk>     telinit "${DEFAULT_RUNLEVEL}"
[17:41] <ogra> telinit default...
[17:42] <ogra> right
[17:42] <Keybuk> so telinit will generate the runlevel event
[17:42] <Keybuk> which will forcibly stop the job its actually running from
[17:42] <ogra> oh, so its no error at all
[17:42] <Keybuk> so Upstart will tell you that it was killed by the TERM signal
[17:42] <Keybuk> right
[17:42] <ogra> then i wonder why i dont see it anywhere else ?
[17:42] <Keybuk> the only reason you see it at all is because it's the last message in the syslog buffer
[17:43] <Keybuk> and it ends up on the console for some reason
[17:43] <ogra> yeah, and i see it on SDL qemu as well as on serial console ...
[17:43] <Keybuk> that might be part of the reason why
[17:43] <ogra> i would have blamed the serial console otherwise
[17:43] <Keybuk> it's just an escaped log message
[17:44] <Keybuk> nothing harmful
[17:44] <ogra> ok
[17:44] <ogra> thanks a lot for the clearification
[17:44]  * ogra dances .... so i have a cotex-a8 kernel for qemu :)
[17:44] <ogra> *cortex-a8
[18:00] <maco> Keybuk, question about bootlogd
[18:01] <Keybuk> maco: quickly...
[18:01] <maco> you said the init script wont be removed because what if the user patches bootlogd to work, then theyll need it.  why dont we patch it to work and put it back in?
[18:01] <maco> if such patches seem to already exist, that is
[18:01] <Keybuk> if you want to do that, please do
[18:02] <Keybuk> I'll happily sponsor the patches ;)
[18:02] <maco> are you making an evil smile right now?
[18:03] <apw> Keybuk, did X move to VT1 in karmic?  and where might i find that
[18:03] <Keybuk> no...
[18:03] <maco> ok. just checking that this isnt a "MUAHAHAHAH" moment
[18:03] <Keybuk> apw: X moved all over the place in karmic; frankly it's all gone a bit quantum
[18:03] <Keybuk> apw: you can tell which VT X is going to be on, or which VT X is actually on, but not both at the same time
[18:03] <apw> heheh ...
[18:04] <Keybuk> maco: it's somewhere on my TODO list, but it's a very long list, and it's quite near the bottom - so if you have some time, please do feel free to have go at it - if you get it all to work, I'll sponsor the upload
[18:04] <apw> what actually decides where it thinks it wants it started
[18:04] <Keybuk> maco: one of the obvious bits is that bootlogd would need to end up in sysvutils or whatever that package is called
[18:04] <Keybuk> maco: check with pere on OFTC #pkg-sysvinit
[18:04]  * apw is lost in a maze of twisty packages
[18:04] <Keybuk> apw: ironically, now I think about it
[18:04] <Keybuk> apw: my jokey statement was actually largely true
[18:04] <Keybuk> apw: X when started calls the VTQUERY ioctl to ask the kernel for the first free VT
[18:05] <Keybuk> apw: though I believe pitti has been doing some work to hardcode it to VT7, since BAD THINGS happen when X and getty share a VT
[18:05] <maco> Keybuk, ok, will look into it
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> hi cody-somerville - i just saw your GDM merge proposal
[18:05] <Keybuk> apw: obviously we'd rather not hardcode X to VT7, which would mean not hardcoding getty to VT1-6 either <g>
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> i think GDM still needs to depend on gnome-settings-daemon, else it doesn't theme properly
[18:05] <apw> Keybuk, on my jaunty box its on VT7 and there is a vt7 on X's command line
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> it used to get that dep via gnome-session
[18:05] <Keybuk> apw: but there's some resistance from the sandal-wearing crowd to a first-come-first-served approach to VTs
[18:05] <Keybuk> apw: then pitti has uploaded his patch :)
[18:06] <apw> and i think my crashy box which isn't here with me, that it was on VT1, and i was trying to confirm and failed
[18:06] <Keybuk> apw: that sounds plausible
[18:06]  * apw will have to download some more packages i guess
[18:06] <Keybuk> we have two options really
[18:06] <Keybuk> keep hardcoding getty to vt1-6 on boot
[18:07] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, Its generally not a good idea to take for granted dependencies you get through other dependencies for this exact situation <grins>
[18:07] <Keybuk> err s/ on boot//
[18:07] <Keybuk> hardcode X to vt7+
[18:07] <Keybuk> then VT switch on boot
[18:07] <Keybuk> (ugh)
[18:07] <Keybuk> or just do VTs on a first-come-first-served basis
[18:07] <Keybuk> ie. X would take VT1 on boot
[18:07] <Keybuk> and the "six gettys" configured would get VT2-7
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - agreed ;)
[18:07] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, Does it need gnome-settings-daemon or gconf?
[18:07] <apw> Keybuk, yeah ...
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - it needs both
[18:08] <Keybuk> apw: but then of course you could have two X logged in users, and two gettys
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> does it not already have a gconf dependency?
[18:08] <Keybuk> with X on vt1 and vt3, and getty on vt2 and vt4
[18:08] <Keybuk> maybe we could use udev
[18:08] <apw> yeah i thinl when i had two users they were VT-1 and 8
[18:08] <Keybuk> /dev/tty/by-user
[18:08] <ion> How about additional X sessions? They wouldn’t get adjacent VTs.
[18:09] <Keybuk> ion: everything would get "first free VT"
[18:09] <apw> ion the user has no clue where they are now
[18:09] <apw> they happen to be on 7 which is pretty mad
[18:09] <Keybuk> 7 and 9 now usually
[18:09] <Keybuk> user on 7, guest on 9
[18:09] <apw> yeah see what is on 8
[18:09] <Keybuk> because usplash took 8
[18:09] <apw> ahh
[18:10] <Keybuk> in this model, user would be on 1, and guest on 8 (assuming 6 gettys)
[18:10] <apw> i think in the new user switcher you get a 'switch to someone' entry on your logout menu
[18:10] <Keybuk> though it'd be generally unpredictable
[18:10] <Keybuk> right exatcly
[18:10] <apw> and it knows where it is and you son't have to know
[18:10] <Keybuk> the right way to solve this is just to embrace the chaos
[18:11] <Keybuk> and supply a more useful "VT switch" command ;)
[18:11] <Keybuk> console equivalent of user switch
[18:11] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, it does
[18:12] <chrisccoulson> so, it will still pull in some gnome-components. but, depending on gnome-session-bin only will mean that gnome-session is not registered as an alternative for x-session-manager and it won't start some gnome-only components
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> so it's slightly better ;)
[18:15] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, say again
[18:15] <apw> Keybuk, we could simply clear the first N vt's and push the console to 4 up or 6 and up
[18:15] <apw> and leave nothing on 1-5 so VT would be there
[18:17] <apw> Keybuk, how do i find out what makes 'system-services' apt-get source seems all confused by it
[18:20] <pitti> kees: ah, saw your spec approval; sorry, didn't have time to look into that yet
[18:28] <kees> pitti: no problemo; let me know if I can help.
[18:29] <pitti> kees: well, patches/commits appreciated, as always :) it'll still take me a bit to get to, since I have some high prio/stuff that other people depend on to do
[18:29] <kees> pitti: sure thing.
[18:29] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, I'm going to try starting gdm without gnome-settings-daemon
[18:30] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - no problem. i think you will lose the theme though
[18:31] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, I'm sure we can figure something out :)
[18:31] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, Thanks for your help btw with this. Its very *much* appreciated.
[18:31] <cody-somerville> :)
[18:31] <cody-somerville> brb
[18:31] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome:)
[18:33] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, it boots now atleast :)
[18:33] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, no theme as you said
[18:34] <chrisccoulson> excellent \o/ i did try booting a xubuntu live CD, and all i got was a broken gnome session
[18:34] <chrisccoulson> does the new dependencies fix that?
[18:34] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, It booted into Xfce and not gnome so I consider that a success :)
[18:34] <cody-somerville> albeit I don't have "gnome" installer
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> fantastic:)
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> fantastic :) even**
[18:40] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, hmm... looking at the logs it looks like gnome-session tried to start metacity for some reason
[18:40] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, this is in /var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - it seems that GDM ships a metacity desktop file in it's autostart folder
[19:11] <jcastro> liw: FYI: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette
[19:12] <jcastro> might be interesting to that deb zsync stuff
[19:17]  * ScottK waves to jcastro.
[19:22] <liw> jcastro, ack, thanks, I'll have a look
[19:23] <jcastro> hi ScottK!
[19:23] <ScottK> jcastro: I saw you found @kubuntunetbook
[19:24] <jcastro> ScottK: My spies are everywhere.
[19:24] <ScottK> jcastro: Yeah, well it's not like we're hiding ....
[19:24] <jcastro> heh
[19:25] <ScottK> jcastro: Feel free to hang out in #kubuntu-netbook if you want.  We have one of the plasma-netbook upstream devs in there with us if you want to supervise our upstream relations.
[19:25]  * jcastro todo's it
[19:25] <jcastro> ScottK: post-Debconf I will.
[19:25] <ScottK> Wouldn't it be faster to just join ...
[19:25] <ScottK> OK
[19:28] <superm1> Hm. so can someone advise the best way to proceed to fix bug 399482?  If you upgrade from 4.45-0ubuntu{1,2} to 4.45-ubuntu3 and bluetoothd isn't running, the prerm will fail. Adding in a case to the preinst to check if upgrading from 4.45-0ubuntu1 or 4.45-0ubuntu2 and spawning bluetoothd is all I can see working right now
[19:40] <ScottK> superm1: I think you can do something with dh_installinit --error-handler (see the man page).
[19:42] <superm1> ScottK, ah that looks to be a useful alternative, i'll do some experimenting with it. thanks
[19:42] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[19:59] <geser> superm1: looking at http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts adding a "failed-upgrade" case to the new prerm seems to be the only way to work around this failure when execute the old prerm
[20:07] <fta> pitti, is there a way to tell apport to keep several crash files for the same program+user?
[20:08] <fta> pitti, and what happens when a chrooted program crashes? where is the crash file generated?
[20:10] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, It seems like gdm is pretty much automatically logging into, for a lack of a better description, the gdm user, auto-launching a minimal gnome session and a GTK application to provide a GTK UI to perform the login.
[20:11] <mrooney> evand: I heard maybe you handle ubuntu-devel mailing list whitelisting? I was wondering if I could be added as I keep getting those moderation notices every time I reply and my replies also aren't timely then
[20:11] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - yeah, that sounds about right.
[20:37] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, is there anything in particular that demands gnome-session or metacity or [insert other gnome thing here]... that is besides the fact that launching gnome-session appears to be hardcoded into gdm simple slave?
[20:38] <evand> mrooney: I'm out for the evening, can you please send me an email to remind me and I'll take care of it tomorrow#
[20:42] <slangasek> pitti: pulling empathy in by default seems to have cost us about 7MB on the CDs now; how are we going to make that up?
[20:43] <mrooney> evand: sure thing, thanks!
[20:43] <slangasek> pitti: a lot of that is libwebkit, which we'd avoided in previous releases - is there other stuff we can convert to webkit and bring in some savings?
[20:43] <directhex> slangasek, sure. firefox.
[20:44] <directhex> Laney, is the current tomboy in karmic size-reduced?
[20:44] <Laney> should be
[20:44] <directhex> let me check some dep chains to see if i can get you anything
[20:44] <Laney> I was just doing the new tomboy
[20:45] <directhex> hm. my f-spot patch landed. i already gave you 2.7 meg last week, slangasek!
[20:45] <Laney> he's so demanding!
[20:45] <sebner> lol
[20:46] <slangasek> I only demand that CDs fit on CDs, the rest is the desktop team's doing. :)
[20:52] <seb128> slangasek, webkit will probably be a requirement for GNOME too soon but that will not win anything since xulruinner will stay for firefox anyway
[20:52] <seb128> slangasek, pitti suggested dropping the gimp user documentation today I think
[20:53] <slangasek> that sounds like a good place to start
[20:53] <slangasek> seb128: we also still have pidgin on here, is that going away soon?
[20:54] <seb128> slangasek, that should be fixed with the seed update to drop pidgin-libnotify
[20:54] <slangasek> ok
[20:54] <seb128> slangasek, did you get a CD rebuild since?
[20:54] <slangasek> I don't know
[20:54] <slangasek> doesn't look like it
[20:55] <seb128> slangasek, well we noticed the issue this morning and pitti unseeded pidgin-libnotify if there is still something pulling pidgin we need to investigate
[20:55]  * slangasek fires off a quick alternate build to see
[21:02] <chrisccoulson> cody-somerville - AFAICT, gdm needs gnome-session because gnome-session allows you to specify an autostart directory, to tell it where to load session agents from. i'm not sure if other session managers do that
[21:02] <cody-somerville> chrisccoulson, AFAIK, xfce4-session can do that
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> can it? i had a quick glance a couple of weeks ago and i wasn;t sure if it did
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> GDM does something like "gnome-session --autostart /etc/gdm/LoginWindow/autostart", to stop it loading files from the normal system autostart directories
[21:41] <johanbr> tkamppeter_, I have a pdf file (from latex) that cups in karmic treats very badly
[21:42] <johanbr> the source pdf is 1 meg, the pdf output that cups gives to the print server is 826 megs
[21:42] <johanbr> something you're aware of?
[22:01] <tormod> johanbr, sounds like something for a bug report and upstream possibly
[22:02] <tkamppeter> johanbr, please make the PDF file available to me. Thanks.
[22:09] <Askalon> 'Buonasera
[22:10] <Askalon> Siete tutti sviluppatori qui dentro?
[22:15] <slangasek> Askalon: si, ma la lingua franca qui é l'inglese
[22:15] <Askalon> Quindi se parlo in Italiano rischio di non essere capito, giusto?
[22:17] <charlie-tca> !it
[22:20] <slangasek> Askalon: non esserebbe capito, no :)
[22:20] <sebner> slangasek for italiano \o/
[22:22] <slangasek> sebner: survival-level, at least :)
[22:23] <sebner> slangasek: 8 years at school. knowledge forgotten -> 99%
[22:43] <slangasek> seb128: oh my... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/207072/comments/239 :)
[22:43] <slangasek> well, at least that assures us there's no chance of regression ;)
[22:45] <Askalon>
[22:45] <Askalon> I can give you advice about an betterment?
[22:47]  * ScottK has a special folder in his email with lots of advice about betterment.
[22:48] <seb128> slangasek, arg, I don't have my hardy machine there but I will fix that tomorrow morning if nobody beats me to it
[22:54] <cjwatson> Askalon: suggestions for improvement are generally best filed as bug reports; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[22:54] <cjwatson> Askalon: or, as that page notes, general ideas are better in brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[22:55] <Askalon> OK THANK YOU
[22:56] <ScottK> cjwatson: Do you a moment for an ISO image question/issue (I know it's late there and it's not urgent)
[22:57] <cjwatson> ScottK: go ahead, if it's too involved I can always defer the answer ;-)
[22:57] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I noticed when I did a kubuntu-netbook install yesterday that the background during the live session was Ubuntu and not Kubuntu.  Where should I look for making a change to fix that?
[22:57] <ScottK> BTW, the kubuntu-netbook ISO are working quite well so far.
[22:58] <cjwatson> ScottK: hmm, IIRC that's controlled by which artwork packages are seeded, rather than by anything ISO-ish
[22:58] <cjwatson> I think, anyway
[22:59] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I'll have a look and see if anything Ubuntu crept in.  Thanks.
[22:59]  * ScottK downloads todays first to verify ...
[23:00] <cjwatson> you do seem to have kubuntu-default-settings seeded
[23:01] <ScottK> That's the current intention (we'll have a netbook specific settings package eventually)
[23:05] <ScottK> cjwatson: The only thing I saw in the CD build log was some reference to edubuntu artwork.  I've no idea if it's related, but it seems odd the edubuntu addon stuff is getting run with netbook.
[23:05] <cjwatson> ScottK: it does rather. which log is that?
[23:05] <ScottK> cjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive//cd-build-logs/kubuntu-netbook/karmic/daily-live-20090715.log
[23:08] <cjwatson> ScottK: oh, right, that's nothing to worry about, it's just the presence of the Kubuntu education seed but it isn't actually used on your CD
[23:08] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  Thanks.  I'm still left a bit mistified then.
[23:08] <cjwatson> find the file that contains the wallpaper in question, dpkg -S, look for that package name?
[23:08] <ScottK> Or rather mystified since I'm not getting wet.
[23:09] <cjwatson> IIRC the default is /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png -> ubuntu-wallpapers
[23:09] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I'm downloading today's ISO and I'll try that in a bit.  Thanks.
[23:09] <cjwatson> but that isn't in your image ...
[23:09] <cjwatson> according to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/daily-live/current/karmic-netbook-i386.manifest anyway
[23:10] <cjwatson> so I confess myself a bit baffled too.
[23:10] <ScottK> That should give me a good pointer to see what's what once I get the image downloaded and converted.
[23:10] <ScottK> I'll make sure it's still a problem on today's image before getting too excited.
[23:11] <cjwatson> right
[23:12] <ScottK> Thanks for the pointers.


[06:55] <Shadowchaser> Hello all I'm kinda new to Linux talked to someone i'n here named zoopster helped me out alot
[21:05] <Spreadsheet> Is the Ubuntu LoCo the biggest LUG in FL?
[21:05] <Spreadsheet> Are you guys more active now, than say, late 2007-2008?
[21:06] <maxolasersquad> Spreadsheet: I think we are a little bit different than a LUG.
[21:06] <Spreadsheet> Well you guys are a LUG, just for a specific distro
[21:06] <maxolasersquad> Since we encompass the entire state, instead of a city, or other smaller area.
[21:07] <Spreadsheet> hmm
[21:07] <Spreadsheet> maxolasersquad: how long has this LoCo existed, do you know?
[21:07] <maxolasersquad> I don't know if there are any stats on how many LUGs are in FL or how big they are.
[21:07] <maxolasersquad> That's probably a question better asked for itnet7 or dantalizing.  Three years I think.
[21:07] <maxolasersquad> They'll probably pop in sooner or later.
[21:08] <Spreadsheet> Ok
[21:08] <Spreadsheet> so since late 2007?
[21:08] <Spreadsheet> Whoa
[21:08] <Spreadsheet> Ok
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> Yes
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> A post at http://www.ubuntu-fl.org/ on November 2009 reports celebrating 2 years of Ubuntu Fl LOCO.
[21:10] <maxolasersquad> Er, http://www.ubuntu-fl.org/2009/11/08/birthday-bash/#more-468
[23:14] <chaynie> mhall119:  ping
[23:15] <chaynie> Also, hey guys. Long time no see.


[07:52] <foobarry> ping
[07:52] <foobarry> wow, quiet in here last night
[07:54] <daftykins> sure was
[07:54] <daftykins> only Krenair's bad connection to keep me company
[09:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:49] <OERIAS> Bonjour brobostigon
[09:50] <brobostigon> moin OERIAS
[09:50] <OERIAS> how's everyone
[09:51] <OERIAS> some time i wish ubuntu would have an option to make the menus on the unity menu bar not disappear and remain
[09:52] <dvrr> PageSpeed Insights received a 400 response from the server. To analyze pages behind firewalls or that require authentication, try the
[09:54] <dvrr> website speed test  i am  got this error   how to resolve
[09:55] <dvrr> MooDoo
[11:06] <bob4nk]p> !s napp
[11:07] <Myrtti> what?
[11:07] <bob4nk]p> nap
[11:07] <Myrtti> ok
[11:29] <Myrtti> rejoice! new irssi
[11:30] <brobostigon> :)
[11:49] <foobarry> new featyres?
[11:49] <foobarry> i am on ye olde version as supplied by centos5
[11:50] <Myrtti> foobarry: 256 colour support, splitlong built in, bug fixes
[11:51] <Myrtti> http://irssi.org/news/ChangeLog
[11:51] <foobarry> rpm -qa  irssi
[11:51] <foobarry> irssi-0.8.15-1.el5.i386
[11:51] <foobarry> :(
[11:52] <Myrtti> awww
[11:52] <Myrtti> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/ailin_nemui:/irssi/ but no centos there either
[11:54] <foobarry> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/irssi
[11:54] <foobarry> failzor
[12:13] <foobarry> Myrtti: do you use the nicklist script?
[12:13] <foobarry> segfaults 0.8.17 for me
[12:13] <Myrtti> no.
[12:13] <Myrtti> it's pointless in my books
[12:13] <foobarry> in smaller rooms its great
[12:13] <Myrtti> all my channels have enough people that the nicklist shows is only partial, and it breaks terminal URL detection
[13:59] <robbins__> test
[14:01] <penguin42> your test has failed
[15:11] <Krenair> daftykins, urgh, sorry about the connection thing. I think my vps has been playing up these past few days :(
[16:19] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[16:21]  * penguin42 yawns at bigcalm
[16:22] <bigcalm> I can has 100mb internetz
[16:24]  * penguin42 types rapidly at bigcalm
[16:25] <penguin42> bigcalm: What flavour?
[16:26] <bigcalm> VirginMedia cable
[16:26] <bigcalm> We moved house. Had 60mb back there
[16:26] <bigcalm> 9 minute walk
[16:26] <bigcalm> And now we have 100mb
[16:26] <bigcalm> And I've kept my IP address, which I didn't expect at all
[16:26] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: oooh... such a hi speed infection connection ;)
[16:27] <penguin42> bigcalm: I think the areas are quite large
[16:27] <bigcalm> 60/3 -> 100/6
[16:27] <penguin42> bigcalm: I'm on their 60/3
[16:28] <bigcalm> FTTC I could have had 52/19
[16:28] <bigcalm> But I'll go with the higher download rate :D
[16:28] <penguin42> on a good day with the wind in the right direction
[16:28]  * penguin42 can't get FTTC
[18:27] <popey> anyone tried steam big picture mode recently?
[18:28] <popey> I just get a blue screen with no content
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> lemme check
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> it's blue alright.. but I get buttons
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> also my avatar is very blue
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> but everything seems to work fine
[18:58] <popey> hmm
[18:58] <popey> busted here
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> (Haswell graphics, 4770k)
[19:01] <ali1234> works for me on nvidia
[19:02] <ali1234> still has the menu corruption: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3337
[19:17] <popey> yeah, I'm on nvidia too
[19:17]  * popey tries on windows
[19:36] <popey> works fine there
[19:36] <brobostigon> new dr who, :)
[19:37] <popey> ooh!
[19:37] <popey> I'll watch later when wifey is home
[19:37] <brobostigon> :) iplayer to the rescue.
[19:48] <daftykins> and a new 30 day limit soon no less 0o
[19:55] <foobarry> anyone been watching the detectorists on bbc4?
[19:56] <daftykins> that's an odd name
[19:57] <foobarry> comedy about metal detector fans
[19:57] <foobarry> not laugh out loud funny but enjoyable
[19:58] <foobarry> mackenzie crook wrote it
[20:03] <shauno> is that frankie skinner?
[20:03] <foobarry> who ?
[20:04] <shauno> on dr.who
[20:04] <foobarry> oh, heh
[20:04] <foobarry> watching it tomoz
[20:07] <shauno> well I was trying to be as unspoiler-y as possible
[20:07] <shauno> I just hate that thing where you know the face but you're not really sure
[20:08] <daftykins> hehe
[20:09] <daftykins> should come along to our tuesday night pub quiz
[20:09] <shauno> I thought about it, but it's a bit of a walk
[20:10] <daftykins> :)
[20:10] <daftykins> need a scuba suit too
[20:23] <popey> ah


[05:54] <Number2> hello what do i need so my mouse will drag and select objects?
[05:55] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Gnome.
[07:09] <badserii> Hello, I have a question: How can I add a language in the keyboard layout switcher? Thank you in advance.
[07:10] <badserii> I'm using Xubuntu Dapper.
[08:55] <tuxcrafter> hello
[08:56] <tuxcrafter> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=371486&page=3&highlight=xubuntu+testing
[08:56] <tuxcrafter> is that the correct place to post my test report
[09:12] <tuxcrafter> is Jim here?
[09:58] <grazie> morning hyper_ch
[11:23] <denied> !ntfs | denied
[11:24] <B|nTaRa> !ntfs-3g | B|nTaRa
[11:24] <TheSheep_> B|nTaRa: you can also /msg it
[11:31] <B|nTaRa> TheSheep_, doing it atm
[11:54] <mkquist_> this is such a great distro runs nice on an old p2 500
[11:59] <totalwormage> :] ]
[12:00] <s||g> networkmanager icon doest works in feisty + xfce ?
[12:00] <s||g> only the knetworkmanager ?
[12:01] <totalwormage> i think it's a common problem
[12:02] <s||g> pardon?
[12:11] <mkquist_> !nonfree codecs
[12:11] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about nonfree codecs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:11] <mkquist_> !good bad and the ugly
[12:12] <TheSheep_> !codecs | mkquist_
[12:12] <ubotu> mkquist_: For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[12:19] <mkquist_> got it thanx
[12:41] <blue_> hey anyone running wine on a 64 bit xubuntu?
[12:41] <TheSheep_> I didn't know there was 64 bit wine...
[12:42] <blue_> i dont think there is, but i read something about compiling it from source
[12:43] <blue_> eh?
[02:17] <TheSheep_> anybody is getting something like this?
[02:18] <TheSheep_> when I press the button on my cd drive, to eject the disk, I get this popup:
[02:18] <TheSheep_> Failed to eject "/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/storage_serial_2005121000029901".
[02:18] <TheSheep_> Given device "/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/storage_serial_2005121000029901" is not a volume or drive.
[02:19] <tanlaan> Rythmbox works under xubuntu right?
[02:20] <tanlaan> I installed it, but it refuses to play music off of my ipod
[02:20] <TheSheep_> tanlaan: install the gstreamer plugins for it
[02:20] <tanlaan> TheSheep_: installing it from Add/Remove Programs didn't include that in the isntall? lol
[02:21] <TheSheep_> tanlaan: of course not, how can the system know which formats you want and which are legal in your country?
[02:21] <tanlaan> Oh yea! *slaps self in the head* I forgot that I used EasyUbuntu on my two other machines. >.<
[02:24] <tanlaan> which gtreamer do i install? just "gstreamer0.8-plugins"?
[02:25] <tanlaan> wait, I already have gstreamer0.10-plugins-base and gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
[04:00] <B|nTaRa> !kmess
[04:00] <ubotu> kmess: Instant messenger to use MSN on KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.3-2ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 1067 kB, installed size 2620 kB
[05:32] <j1mc> grazie: are you involved with community testing of xubuntu isos at all?
[06:21] <B|nTaRa> where can i get help for wine ?
[06:22] <TheSheep_> B|nTaRa: try #wine
[07:34] <albert_> hi
[07:35] <albert_> can anybody tell me how to delete the saved session details for a clean bootup?
[07:35] <cellofellow> ~/.cache
[07:36] <cellofellow> how would I use mencoder to convert a MS ASF file to Ogg?
[07:37] <albert_> cellofellow, you're  my hero
[07:37] <cellofellow> :D
[07:37] <Kasplatt> http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/images/shots/desktop-verwilst.png <-- can I make my xUbuntu look like that ?
[07:37] <Kasplatt> Especially want the icons to look like the icons...
[07:38] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: well .. that's KDE, not xfce but if you just want a button icon set and a theme check out www.xfce-look.org
[07:38] <albert_> aaah, great, it worked
[07:39] <Kasplatt> k
[07:39] <albert_> bur[n] er, thx for help too
[07:39] <cellofellow> I have that background
[07:39] <Kasplatt> so gentoo uses KDE ?
[07:39] <bur[n] er> cellofellow, everyone does ;)
[07:39] <cellofellow> it uses whatever you want
[07:39] <cellofellow> like debian.
[07:39] <cellofellow> hehe
[07:39] <maxamillion> ;)
[07:40] <bur[n] er> KDE can run on gentoo... KDE can run on ubuntu... but why woul you want to? ;)
[07:40] <maxamillion> amen!!!
[07:40] <cellofellow> KDE on ubuntu has its own name: Kubuntu.
[07:40] <cellofellow> I suppose Kasplatt thought all distros were like that.
[07:40] <albert_> now i can get some tabaco
[07:40] <bur[n] er> yeah, but i hate when people think kubuntu and xubuntu and ubuntu are totally different distros
[07:40] <Kasplatt> cellofellow, I know
[07:41] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: they are
[07:41] <Kasplatt> lol :D
[07:41] <Kasplatt> ownt :P
[07:42] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: kubuntu and xubuntu are both derived distros based off ubuntu, the fact that they share repositories with ubuntu doesn't make them the same thing
[07:42] <bur[n] er> maxamillion, but you don't have to "uninstall" xubuntu to run ubuntu
[07:42] <cellofellow> they are sort of strange to be different distros if you can have all three at once without multi-booting.
[07:42] <bur[n] er> they're one large distro with 3 major meta-packages
[07:43] <bur[n] er> er... 5... flux and edubuntu are big players too :)
[07:43] <cellofellow> 4 actually, we always forget edubuntu
[07:43] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: there is no fluxbuntu meta package in the repositories
[07:43] <bur[n] er> no?
[07:43] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: nope
[07:43] <cellofellow> it's an independant thing.
[07:43] <Kasplatt> gentoo looks nicest
[07:43] <bur[n] er> oh... ok 4 :)
[07:43] <cellofellow> I think they even have their own repos, mirrors really.
[07:44] <bur[n] er> looks can be the same on every distro if you'd like
[07:44] <cellofellow> Kasplatt: Gentoo is all about hand configuration. So, someone worked to get it to look nice.
[07:44] <bur[n] er> important things are apt > emerge in terms of ubuntu and gentoo
[07:44] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: the project lead decided not to have a meta package in the repos because their base install is so much different from any other ubuntu derivative that it would have restricted what they do with their official iso image
[07:44] <Kasplatt> the one I sent a link to an image to looked nice
[07:44] <cellofellow> so, they make a fluxbuntu-base
[07:45] <cellofellow> sides, even if there was a fluxbuntu meta-package, it'd be in Universe not Main.
[07:45] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: "looks" are worthless in the linux world, you can make any 1 distro "look" like any other, distros are separated by main focus of project, package management, source based or binary, stability, security, etc.
[07:45] <cellofellow> Ubuntu takes looks seriously, as do Novell SLED and Linspire.
[07:46] <cellofellow> And most of what I've seen in the dev mailing lists are artwork-related.
[07:46] <bur[n] er> Kasplatt, xfce-look.org gnome-look.org kde-look.org art.ubuntu.com
[07:46] <Kasplatt> yeah.
[07:47] <maxamillion> cellofellow: looks are important because they are often directly related with functionality and ease of use but we just don't have the staff for something like that
[07:47] <Kasplatt> I've only used Linux for about a month.
[07:47] <maxamillion> cellofellow: but with any amount of configuration one distro can look like another
[07:47] <cellofellow> i've had a desktop installed for almost a year now.
[07:47] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: then you don't want to touch gentoo, you compile the entire system from source code
[07:47] <cellofellow> maxamillion: yes I understand.
[07:47] <Kasplatt> bleh..
[07:47] <maxamillion> cellofellow: rgr :)
[07:48] <Kasplatt> I'm gonna stick with xUbuntu :)
[07:48] <TheSheep_> maxamillion: what's in a distro? the default config is one of the major features of a distro
[07:48] <Kasplatt> I really hate Windows now :P
[07:48] <maxamillion> TheSheep_: i left "etc" open for translation ;)
[07:48] <cellofellow> most distros go along these lines: what package manager to use, and how to set it up, and what it looks like.
[07:48] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: oooo, how do you like virtualbox?
[07:49] <maxamillion> cellofellow: true
[07:49] <TheSheep_> windows wasn't that bad, espeically 2k, if there was a skilled admin to manage it
[07:49] <bur[n] er> vpn client from within the xp home host isn't working, and I can't get to my samba shares on the host os, but other than that, it's slick and easy
[07:49] <bur[n] er> the USB was a bit of an issue, but I fixed it with the help of #vbox and i added info to the ubuntu wiki :)
[07:49] <cellofellow> I have two computer that NEED (well, sort of) windows, and they have 98/ME, I am upgrading to 2K ASAP.
[07:49] <maxamillion> TheSheep_: i enjoyed my time while i dual booted win2kpro and debian (back when openoffice was crippled compared to its current state and i needed office for school)
[07:50] <bur[n] er> cellofellow, xubuntu + virtualbox?
[07:50] <bur[n] er> :)
[07:50] <cellofellow> it needs to be able to access some hardware that I can't get to work on linux.
[07:50] <cellofellow> MIDI.
[07:50] <Kasplatt> How do I know if my AIGLX is working ?
[07:50] <cellofellow> really, that is all. Everything my mom does on Windows she can do in Linux, except her MIDI.
[07:50] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: does beryl run?
[07:50] <Kasplatt> yeah
[07:51] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: then it works
[07:51] <Kasplatt> okay, thanks.
[07:51] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: i don't think beryl will run without either aiglx or xgl setup and functioning
[07:51] <cellofellow> AIGLX is part of Xorg now, so if Beryl works without XGL, you got it.
[07:51] <cellofellow> it errors and dies.
[07:51] <Kasplatt> I installed AIGLX
[07:51] <maxamillion> cellofellow: ah ... didn't know aiglx was part of xorg now
[07:51] <cellofellow> or, at least I think it is.
[07:52] <cellofellow> !aiglx
[07:52] <Kasplatt> but does it make anything better ? except making my beryl work ?
[07:52] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: you might have installed drivers that support aiglx direct hardware but i do think cellofellow is right about it being included
[07:52] <ubotu> AIGLX (Accelerated Indirect GLX) is an open source project founded by the X.Org Foundation and the Fedora Core Linux community to allow accelerated indirect GLX rendering capabilities to X.org and DRI drivers. This allows remote X clients to get fully hardware accelerated rendering over the GLX protocol. Head to #ubuntu-effects for support.
[07:52] <cellofellow> Nvidia proprietary
[07:52] <Kasplatt> idk..
[07:52] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: makes 3d functions run faster because it puts the overhead on your graphics card and not on software rendering
[07:52] <cellofellow> I think only the nvidia proprietary drivers support AIGLX very well.
[07:53] <maxamillion> cellofellow: yeah
[07:53] <Kasplatt> and it runs without having beryl running
[07:53] <Kasplatt> ?
[07:53] <cellofellow> Apparently XGL with a plain window manager can speed things up by offloading to the GPU instead of using CPU for X.
[07:54] <bur[n] er> xgl was ungodly slow for me back in the day before nvidia-beta drivers
[07:54] <cellofellow> Kasplatt: I think it's the Composite extension I always have to dissable on my card to get GL working.
[07:54] <bur[n] er> compositing breaks GL?  that's why my wine warcraft3.exe doesn't work anymore :)
[07:54] <cellofellow> my Nvidia-legacy card will do 3D OpenGL, or 3D AIGLX.
[07:55] <cellofellow> both work at the same time on a normal Nvidia card.
[07:55] <Kasplatt> k
[07:55] <Kasplatt> wine warcraft 3 works for me.. but not very good for playing with my friends :P
[07:56] <cellofellow> don't you have to get a more recent version of Wine than is in the repos?
[07:56] <cellofellow> a third-party repo?
[07:56] <maxamillion> cellofellow: yeah, www.winehq.com has the info on their wiki
[07:57] <cellofellow> I don't ever really use it.
[08:03] <Kasplatt> maxamillion, what is that ?
[08:03] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: its a virtual machine application
[08:03] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: http://www.virtualbox.org/
[08:03] <Kasplatt> like VMware ?
[08:04] <bur[n] er> cellofellow, maxamillion, feisty has the latest :)
[08:04] <bur[n] er> like vmware, but it works in kernels > .19 unlike vmware
[08:04] <bur[n] er> aka feisty
[08:04] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: yes, but better :)
[08:04] <Kasplatt> aah, faster ?
[08:05] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: its in the repos now?
[08:05] <maxamillion> Kasplatt: not sure about faster, its just nicer software
[08:05] <bur[n] er> maxamillion, it's not in the repos, but the edgy .deb on their site works in feisty
[08:05] <bur[n] er> it was more work to get USB going and I still don't have a bridged network
[08:05] <bur[n] er> vmware worked out of the box a bit better
[08:05] <maxamillion> bahhh!!!!! they don't have an AMD64 release
[08:06] <Kasplatt> maxamillion, speed is everything.
[08:06] <bur[n] er> for sure, only crazy folks use amd64 ;)
[08:06] <bur[n] er> virtualbox and vmware are about the same in terms of speed
[08:06] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: i just like the interface of virtualbox, just a pref
[08:06] <bur[n] er> i do too
[08:07] <bur[n] er> i don't like the multiple windows factor of VirtualBox though
[08:07] <maxamillion> well, i gotta go ... boss needs me to do stuff
[08:07] <maxamillion> bbl
[08:07] <bur[n] er> hasta luego
[08:59] <cellofellow> bur[n] er: kqemu works good
[09:00] <bur[n] er> and the gui leaves much to be desired
[09:06] <maxamillion> bur[n] er: kqemu has a gui?
[09:07] <cellofellow> none I know of
[09:07] <cellofellow> I could make a shell script with zenity for a gui
[09:08] <maxamillion> cellofellow: would be a cool open source project ... i want in if you plan to do that :)
[09:08] <cellofellow> Well, Zenity is actually just a user-friendly way of getting input for a shell script. I could probably make it in some spare time on my vacation.
[09:09] <maxamillion> cellofellow: or even to just qemu since that is more widely used because its open source
[09:09] <cellofellow> kqemu is too, now.
[09:09] <maxamillion> cellofellow: oh, didn't know that
[09:09] <cellofellow> and there's kvm
[09:09] <maxamillion> cellofellow: or we could do a complete pyGTK interface to configuration and status/etc .... kinda like the Mac-Q thing
[09:10] <cellofellow> kqemu went GPL when Linux 2.6.20 with KVM was released.
[09:10] <cellofellow> maybe
[09:10] <maxamillion> cellofellow: http://www.kju-app.org/kju/ <---like that
[09:10] <cellofellow> and be able to choose KVM, KQemu or plain QEMU.
[09:10] <maxamillion> would be pretty sweetr
[09:10] <maxamillion> -r
[09:14] <clarklinux> grazie: you there?
[09:16] <cellofellow> anyone know if I can force fusesmb to rescan?
[09:16] <maxamillion> cellofellow: no clue
[09:17] <cellofellow> I just like it better than smbfs, but it only scans for new boxes every five mins.
[09:17] <maxamillion> ah
[09:18] <bur[n] er> bummer
[09:19] <bur[n] er> granted, that doesn't compare to fuse which is uber cool
[09:19] <maxamillion> nautilus --no-desktop on amd64 == problems :(
[09:20] <TheSheep_> is it just me or is feisty getting unstable as the release time gets closer?
[09:21] <maxamillion> TheSheep_: feisty is getting unstable
[09:22] <bur[n] er> it is?
[09:26] <hyper_ch> hiho
[09:26] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: how comes?
[09:26] <_-_-jonathan_-_-> HELLO WORLD!!
[09:26] <maxamillion> _-_-jonathan_-_-: hi
[09:26] <maxamillion> hyper_ch: no clue, just seems the bug reports are getting submitted in larger amounts
[09:26] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: I added two... one is already solved :)
[09:27] <maxamillion> hyper_ch: awesome :)
[09:27] <bib2pouille> hej everybody
[09:27] <maxamillion> bib2pouille: hello
[09:27] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: the one resolved was that my wifi card wasn't working anymore with 2.6.20-11... but 2.6.20-12 solved it already
[09:28] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: but the other one is also annoying... the xfce applications menu disappears after a while
[09:28] <bur[n] er> yeah, that happens to me actually
[09:28] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: then submit also your info here:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/92911
[09:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 92911 in xfdesktop4 "[apport]  xfce4-menu-plugin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]
[09:30] <bur[n] er> my .xml file?
[09:32] <TheSheep_> oh, the old xfwm4&gimp bug is back :/
[09:34] <hyper_ch> TheSheep_: what was that strace command again?
[09:34] <hyper_ch> TheSheep_: found it... it was in the devel channel where you posted it
[09:36] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: find the PID of the xfce4-menu-plugin
[09:36] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: and then do a     strace -p PID
[09:36] <bur[n] er> uhhhhh
[09:36] <hyper_ch> let it run in a shell window
[09:36] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: you know how to find out the PID?
[09:36] <bur[n] er> yes
[09:37] <bur[n] er> strace not found
[09:37] <bur[n] er> i put my menu back though
[09:37] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: ps aux | grep xfce4-menu-plugin
[09:37] <hyper_ch> there you should find the PID
[09:37] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: and then     strace -p PID
[09:37] <bur[n] er> i know
[09:38] <bur[n] er> i don't have strace
[09:38] <hyper_ch> sudo apt-get install strace
[09:38] <hyper_ch> :)
[09:38] <bur[n] er> i'm sure
[09:38] <bur[n] er> but don't i have to wait for it to crash?
[09:38] <hyper_ch> no, just strace it ... meaning leave the cli window open
[09:38] <hyper_ch> it will crash at some time
[09:38] <hyper_ch> and then copy'n'paste the last lines on launchpad
[09:39] <bur[n] er> oh
[09:39] <hyper_ch> ?
[09:40] <bur[n] er> strace is running in my term, but the menu isn't crashing
[09:40] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: it will after a while :)
[09:41] <TheSheep_> gotta love them haisenbugs :)
[09:56] <hyper_ch> nice, my project got approved :)
[09:57] <PuMpErNiCkLe> SoC?
[09:58] <hyper_ch> soc?
[09:58] <Mordicus> hello !
[09:58] <hyper_ch> hi Mordicus
[09:58] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Google Summer of Code.
[09:59] <hyper_ch> PuMpErNiCkLe: nope, source forge :)
[09:59] <PuMpErNiCkLe> ah
[09:59] <hyper_ch> PuMpErNiCkLe: I'm just a hobby programmer :)
[09:59] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Props anyway. :)
[09:59] <hyper_ch> props?
[10:00] <Mordicus> I've got a problem with my Xubuntu installation... last time, I edit the Xorg.conf file to replace the VESA default driver by Trident, it was ok, but now, I do not remember what I did, my system cannot boot... :(
[10:00] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Congradulations. ^^
[10:00] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: can't the whole system boot or can't you just get a graphical login?
[10:00] <Mordicus> I got an error in the .conf file and Xubuntu desktop does not start...
[10:00] <grazie>  /me rememebers...vaguely
[10:00] <Mordicus> yes, that's right !
[10:01] <Mordicus> Hi Grazie ! :)
[10:01] <grazie> Mordicus: hi
[10:01] <hyper_ch> PuMpErNiCkLe: you know PHP?
[10:01] <Mordicus> when I boot, i can get the Terminal command, but no graphical interface...
[10:01] <PuMpErNiCkLe> hyper_ch: Nope, 'fraid not.
[10:01] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: did you make a backup of the xorg file?
[10:02] <hyper_ch> PuMpErNiCkLe: :) too bad... one slave less for me to work on the project *evilgrin*
[10:02] <PuMpErNiCkLe> o.O
[10:02] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: yes, I think I did (Grazie helped me to do it)
[10:02] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: then login at the terminal
[10:02] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: before applying the changes
[10:03] <Mordicus> yes I can
[10:03] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: make a copy of the existing xorg.conf now... and then copy the backup to Xorg.conf
[10:04] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: then you have the graphical environment again and you can start fiddling again with the config :)
[10:04] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: well, I am new to Linux so I don't know how to do it :/
[10:05] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: I get a X server error when I boot
[10:05] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: now first login at the terminal
[10:05] <bur[n] er> what do all you xfce people use for a vnc server?  x11vnc?
[10:05] <hyper_ch> krfb
[10:05] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: done
[10:05] <bur[n] er> in xfce?
[10:05] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: sure, why not?
[10:06] <bur[n] er> digikam > f-spot though
[10:06] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: each one his own :)
[10:06] <bur[n] er> for sure
[10:06] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: well, no go to  the X11 folder:   cd /etc/X11
[10:06] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: no --> now
[10:06] <maxamillion> i like gThumb over either of those
[10:06] <maxamillion> ;)
[10:07] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: done
[10:07] <bur[n] er> krfb can't do reverse vnc :\
[10:07] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: do a    ls -al   and pastebin the output :)
[10:07] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: what for?
[10:08] <Mordicus> I cannot paste all because it is on another Machine, but I see this :
[10:08] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: well, what is the name of the backup xorg.conf that you made?
[10:08] <Mordicus> xorg.conf, xorg.conf.crap, xorg.conf.save, xorg.conf.save.1
[10:09] <bur[n] er> hyper_ch, the reverse vnc?  so I can help my friends out... currently we use x11vnc to initiate a reverse vnc to my listening vncviewer
[10:09] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: which one is the "good" backup? you know?
[10:09] <hyper_ch> bur[n] er: no, picasa :)
[10:09] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: may be "crap" ? (not sure if Grazie remembers...)
[10:09] <hyper_ch> grazie: you are needed here :)
[10:09] <bur[n] er> lol
[10:09] <Mordicus> hyper_ch: I think it's crap
[10:10] <Mordicus> grazie: yes, I think it's crap ! thanks Grazie ! ;)
[10:10] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: ok, make a backup of the current one:   sudo cp Xorg.conf Xorg.conf.backup
[10:11] <Mordicus> done !
[10:11] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: then lets restore one of the other backup files:    sudo cp -f xorg.conf.save Xorg.conf
[10:12] <Mordicus> done
[10:12] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: startx
[10:13] <Mordicus> Fatal error, no screens found, giving up....
[10:13] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: or reboot the other computer :)
[10:13] <Mordicus> ok I reboot
[10:14] <Mordicus> there is still a X server error on starting :/
[10:15] <Mordicus> "no screens found"
[10:15] <hyper_ch> Mordicus: ok, then login again :)
[10:15] <hyper_ch> at the terminal
[10:15] <maxamillion> Mordicus: log in to the command line and do "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" and go though that tool
[10:16] <hyper_ch> and then:   sudo cp -f /etc/X11/xorg.conf.save /etc/X11/Xorg.conf
[10:17] <hyper_ch> and then reboot again
[10:17] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: if that doesn't help, use maxamillion's approach :9
[10:17] <Mordicus> huh... I launched this tool and is asking me a lot of question.. can I abord ?
[10:17] <maxamillion> Mordicus: it launched a tool from the command i gave you?
[10:18] <hyper_ch> maxamillion: yes, the x-server configuration tool :9
[10:19] <Mordicus> maxamillion: yes
[10:19] <Mordicus> but there are a lot of questions asked :/
[10:19] <maxamillion> Mordicus: then answer them
[10:19] <Mordicus> not sure I can answer them correctly :s
[10:20] <maxamillion> uhm... hmmm, it should have a default value, take the default when you don't know .... what's the worst that could happen, your xserver still not work?
[10:20] <Mordicus> maxamillion: what shall I answer for frambuffer ?
[10:20] <maxamillion> Mordicus: that shouldn't effect X starting or not, just tell it no
[10:22] <Mordicus> [10:22] <maxamillion> Mordicus: ctrl+alt+backspace would have sufficed
[10:23] <maxamillion> Mordicus: well .. ctrl+alt+f7 first, then +backspace
[10:23] <Mordicus> I still get a Server X error... after rebooting :s
[10:23] <maxamillion> meh
[10:24] <maxamillion> you might need to switch back to vesa
[10:24] <Mordicus> ok...
[10:24] <bur[n] er> what kidn of card?
[10:25] <bur[n] er> Mordicus, did you try the magical "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" ?
[10:25] <grazie> Mordicus: did you try restoring the .save and .save.1 ? (no knowlegde of these being made)
[10:26] <hyper_ch> grazie: the .save yes but not the .save.1 yet
[10:29] <Mordicus> ok, get can the graphic interface now ! :) But a problem : the resolution is wrong... very small :s
[10:29] <Mordicus> grazie: no I did not try yet...
[10:30] <sparrw> going for the trifecta of #*ubuntu bans
[10:30] <Mordicus> I have a small screen square... 600x400 (but my screen is 1074x748)
[10:31] <Mordicus> my video run faster ! :D (but my screen is too small >.<)
[10:32] <Mordicus> how to change the screen resolution ?
[10:32] <maxamillion> Mordicus: in the xorg.conf
[10:33] <Mordicus> how can I edit it ?
[10:33] <bur[n] er> mousepad, gedit, nano, vi, emacs
[10:34] <bur[n] er> :)
[10:34] <bur[n] er> try the dpkg-reconfigure script
[10:34] <bur[n] er> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[10:34] <bur[n] er> it will be easier than editing a text file
[10:34] <Mordicus> with the mousepad it's ok ?
[10:35] <Mordicus> (last time it did not work :s)
[10:35] <bur[n] er> use sudo
[10:35] <bur[n] er> gksudo mousepad /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[10:35] <Mordicus> ok
[10:36] <bur[n] er> if you have scite, it colors it pretty ;)
[10:36] <bur[n] er> gksudo scite /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[10:36] <Mordicus> ok, i opend the file, but what I must change in it please ?
[10:38] <bur[n] er> that's what im' saying
[10:38] <bur[n] er> just run the script!
[10:38] <bur[n] er> you don't have to know what you're doing
[10:38] <bur[n] er> for the most part you pick hte defaults
[10:39] <bur[n] er> run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" from a term
[10:39] <Mordicus> ok ! relaunching
[10:42] <Mordicus> Can I use 16 bits colors instead of 24 bits ? (will it help my poor video card to display large video better ?)
[10:43] <ST47|Linux> Question - I have xubuntu 6.10 and a normal headset/mic combo from logitech, however I cannot hear anything
[10:44] <ST47|Linux> I have tried moving the headphones to the other holes, I know the headphones work
[10:45] <crimsun> pastebin requested info from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems
[10:45] <crimsun> then tell us the url
[10:51] <ST47|Linux> http://pastebin.ca/405695
[10:51] <crimsun> ah, the dreaded HDA
[10:51] <crimsun> the bane of my existence
[10:52] <ST47|Linux> uhoh
[10:52] <crimsun> yes, those things are pieces of junk
[10:52] <crimsun> in any case, you _might_ be able to get something to work by using model=ref
[10:52] <crimsun> I don't have my git tree handy...
[10:58] <crimsun> sorry, slow connection
[10:58] <ST47|Linux> so, it is my hard drive?
[10:58] <ST47|Linux> cause
[10:58] <ST47|Linux> that makes no sense...
[10:59] <ST47|Linux> oh
[10:59] <ST47|Linux> I lied
[10:59] <crimsun> no, it's a combination of the HDA driver (alsa:sigmatel) and your hardware
[10:59] <crimsun> Dell uses crappy Sigmatel
[11:00] <crimsun> go shoot Dell in the face, problem resolved
[11:00] <ST47|Linux> oh
[11:01] <crimsun> can you pastebin the contents of /proc/asound/card0/codec* , too?
[11:04] <ST47|Linux> http://pastebin.ca/405717
[11:16] <crimsun> thanks, looking when I have a free moment
[11:16] <crimsun> (currently in a phone conf)
[11:16] <ST47|Linux> ok, np
[11:17] <crimsun> modprobe -r snd-hda-intel && modprobe snd-hda-intel model=ref
[11:18] <ST47|Linux> FATAL: Module snd_hda_intel is in use.
[11:18] <ST47|Linux> oh wait
[11:18] <ST47|Linux> nope, error///
[11:19] <ST47|Linux> nothing is running...
[11:19] <ST47|Linux> except ff and irssi
[11:19] <B|nTaRa> whats the best cd burner ?
[11:20] <B|nTaRa> !baker
[11:21] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about baker - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:21] <crimsun> lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/* /dev/mixer* /dev/audio*
[11:21] <ST47|Linux> it's amaror
[11:21] <ST47|Linux> amarok
[11:21] <ST47|Linux> 1 sec
[11:21] <ST47|Linux> FATAL: Error removing snd_hda_intel (/lib/modules/2.6.17-11-generic/kernel/sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.ko): Operation not permitted
[11:25] <crimsun> ST47|Linux: you need to use sudo
[11:25] <ST47|Linux> I did
[11:25] <ST47|Linux> then I got
[11:25] <ST47|Linux> FATAL: Error inserting snd_hda_intel (/lib/modules/2.6.17-11-generic/kernel/sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.ko): Operation not permitted
[11:25] <B|nTaRa> !xfburn
[11:25] <ubotu> xfburn: CD burning tool for Xfce. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.0-0ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 81 kB, installed size 528 kB
[11:26] <ST47|Linux> wait
[11:26] <ST47|Linux> I liek
[11:26] <ST47|Linux> lied*
[11:26] <ST47|Linux> I only used sudo once :(
[11:27] <crimsun> wait, so it does work?
[11:27] <ST47|Linux> yeah
[11:27] <crimsun> where "work" means "sound is audible"
[11:27] <ST47|Linux> yeah
[11:27] <crimsun> thanks, I'll apply that to my git branch
[11:32] <maxamillion> crimsun: git branch?
[11:32] <crimsun> maxamillion: yes
[11:33] <maxamillion> crimsun: what's that?
[11:33] <crimsun> maxamillion: http://www.kernel.org/git/  for info about git.
[11:33] <maxamillion> crimsun: thanks
[11:33] <crimsun> my git branches are holding areas for alsa patches (since I maintain it for Ubuntu)
[11:34] <maxamillion> ah, good to know
[11:34] <maxamillion> crimsun: so ... git is like svn?
[11:34] <crimsun> git is an RCS of sorts, yes.
[11:34] <maxamillion> ok
[11:35] <crimsun> like cvs, svn, bzr, monotone, tla, and so on
[11:35] <maxamillion> yeah
[11:35] <maxamillion> crimsun: what's your opinion of bzr?
[11:35] <crimsun> it's slow as molasses for my uses
[11:36] <maxamillion> fair enough
[11:36] <crimsun> I generally avoid bzr for alsa and choose instead to use what upstreams use (git and hg)
[11:36] <haze76> Have anyone made rp-pppoe 3.8 work in XUbuntu ?
[11:36] <crimsun> however, I have several research projects hosted in bzr, and they seem to be fine
[11:36] <haze76> It asks my password, then nothing happens, after following the procedure described in the ubuntu Wiki
[11:37] <haze76> I am using the Feisty Fawn herd 5 which might not be a good idea, but any help is appreciated
[11:37] <haze76> Ubuntu doesn't even install in my laptop
[11:37] <haze76> So I went for xubuntu since I don't like KDE particularly
[11:38] <maxamillion> crimsun: yeah, i had always been curious about its performance since it is written in python
[11:38] <haze76> It's a fairly slow laptop too
[11:38] <maxamillion> haze76: what are the hardware specs?
[11:38] <haze76> maxamillion: 192 mb ram, 500 mhz celeron processor
[11:39] <haze76> maxamillion: 10 gigabyte harddrive. it's not that slow...
[11:39] <haze76> I was a bit disappointed that the Norwegian translation is incomplete. My father would have preferred Norwegian, but if it's incomplete I prefer to have everything in English
[11:40] <haze76> I guess that is a question of the standard routines for translation that Ubuntu can't just escape?
[11:40] <haze76> You can't just set off translating any app on your own?
[11:41] <haze76> Anyway when I change Internet providers it will be an ethernet cable and work automagically, but for the time being I have to use nasty PPPoE
[11:41] <maxamillion> haze76: yeah, i have very little knowledge of the language systems since i only speak english but as far as the installation i'm not entirely sure why you have issues
[11:41] <maxamillion> !pppoe
[11:41] <ubotu> Setting up an ADSL/PPPoE connection? Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ADSLPPPoE
[11:41] <maxamillion> haze76: ^ that link is what you need
[11:41] <maxamillion> brb
[11:42] <haze76> maxamillon: With Dapper Drake and 6.10 - and feisty fawn - Ubuntu hangs at various places in the install process, or nothing happens. It is a Toshibe Sattelite S35 DVD laptop. XUbuntu installs just fine
[11:42] <haze76> Thanks
[11:42] <haze76> I will take a look at that
[11:43] <haze76> I tried installing the rp-pppoe client by the waty
[11:43] <haze76> How come it's not installed by default, and no firewall is installed by default? Crazy in a user friendly operating system like ubuntu
[11:45] <haze76> Yeah it is better to do this commandline I think
[11:51] <cheeseboy> help
[11:51] <cheeseboy> everythings on my taskbar twice
[11:51] <cheeseboy> i have 2 ofeach thing
[11:51] <cheeseboy> how fix?
[12:11] <B|nTaRa> hohohoho
[12:12] <B|nTaRa> im starting to love xubuntu now
[12:14] <maxamillion> B|nTaRa: glad to hear it
[12:15] <BFTD> !!