[00:35] <Awsoonn> hi all~ I am interested in what the differance is between 'normal' and 'safe graphics mode' on the liveCD


[02:55]  * bobJabba apir to everyone
[03:44] <Knightlust> bobJabba: in response to your question yesterday.... the distro itself is not important. I like the courteous community. if you've tried other communities, most questions would be met with "dude, RTFM!!!!"
[03:45] <Knightlust> the obnoxious response turns me off from using Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, and even Mandrake/Mandriva
[03:46] <Knightlust> and I've tried them all
[03:51] <Knightlust> so... seems like kidsodateless is now officially a member... congrats dude! i was on travel that day, and i can't connect via 3g
[07:17] <bobJabba> Knightlust: Oh wow. OK, that's the most convincing argument I've heard (erm, seen). Thanks :) But I gtg. Talk to you guys later.


[06:43] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <fgimenez> good morning
[08:32] <Chipaca> mo'in
[09:13] <Chipaca> sergiusens: when you're around, could use a hand reviewing the grub branches
[09:13] <Chipaca> getting "does not look like a tar" when using udf
[09:14] <Chipaca> in other news, feeling much better \o/, and all my house smells delicious because i'm cooking up some chile :)
[09:14] <Chipaca> ogra_: how're your teeth?
[09:16] <ogra_> Chipaca, i woke up with nearly no pain at all but a golfball on my jaw :/ ...
[09:16] <Chipaca> ogra_: so you've gone to see a dentist
[09:16] <Chipaca> ogra_: right?
[09:17] <ogra_> yeah, i fear i have to
[09:17] <Chipaca> ogra_: dude, that's an abscess. you want that sorted asap.
[09:17] <ogra_> yes
[09:18] <ogra_> i fear there is not much to sort but get rid of the tooh
[09:18] <Chipaca> they can turn really nasty. don't google it, just go :)
[09:18] <Chipaca> ogra_: forget the tooth, it's the ball of rotten pus inches from your brain you should be worrying about now :D
[09:19] <ogra_> if i open my mouth it is further away though :)
[09:19] <ogra_> (it is the lower jaw)
[09:19] <Chipaca> oh, that's alright then
[09:19] <ogra_> no, not, but not as dangerous :)
[09:20] <Chipaca> true, true
[09:20]  * Chipaca decides not to look up statistics
[09:22] <ogra_> lol
[11:00] <sergiusens> Chipaca: which branch gives you that?
[11:01] <sergiusens> Chipaca: does not look like a tar means an improper download maybe
[11:01] <Chipaca> sergiusens: or maybe i'm using --device-part wrong
[11:01] <Chipaca> sudo ~/canonical/goget-ubuntu-touch/src/launchpad.net/goget-ubuntu-touch/udf core rolling --device-part=generic-amd64_1.1_all.snap --channel edge -o wily.img --developer-mode
[11:02] <sergiusens> Chipaca: you are
[11:02] <sergiusens> Chipaca: that's supposed to be --oem generic-amd64_1.1_all.snap
[11:02] <sergiusens> :-P
[11:02] <Chipaca> d'oh
[11:07] <Chipaca> sergiusens: it worked!
[11:07] <Chipaca> here, let me pastebin it because it's loverly
[11:07] <Chipaca> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11767162/
[11:07] <Chipaca> sergiusens: ^
[11:08] <Chipaca> sergiusens: (it was supposed to panic, right? :-p )
[11:09] <Chipaca> sergiusens: and you've got a data race
[11:09] <sergiusens> Chipaca: is that the last branch or one in between?
[11:09] <Chipaca> sergiusens: the last one
[11:11] <sergiusens> Chipaca: can you run godeps -u dependencies.tsv and rebuild?
[11:11] <Chipaca> sergiusens: udf itself?
[11:11] <sergiusens> Chipaca: yes
[11:12] <Chipaca> sergiusens: but that'll fail, because i updated snappy manually to point at the branch you mention
[11:12] <Chipaca> sergiusens: won't it?
[11:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca: oh, don't use that snappy branch, it's irrelevant to u-d-f; it just needs to be on the image for updates on a running system
[11:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca: it probably needs another merge from trunk
[11:14] <sergiusens> Chipaca: and thanks, I will try with that branch in the meantime and figure out what's broken
[11:14] <Chipaca> i'd pulled trunk and merged that branch, but anyway, rebuilding now
[11:15] <sergiusens> Chipaca: yeah, this line doesn't feel right launchpad.net/snappy/partition.(*Partition).BootloaderDir(0xc208059700, 0x0, 0x0)
[11:16] <sergiusens> Chipaca: which is most likely the developer mode stuff that landed
[11:16] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i'll wait for you to fix then?
[11:17] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I would want all the other developer-mode branches to land first; just godeps it
[11:17] <sergiusens> no need to wait
[11:17] <Chipaca> k
[11:17] <Chipaca> sergiusens: forwards, or back?
[11:18] <Chipaca> ah, you mean the godeps you suggested above
[11:18] <Chipaca> which i've already done
[11:18] <Chipaca> but still got the error
[11:18] <Chipaca> because merge
[11:18] <Chipaca> bzr revert'ed and trying again
[11:21] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i have good news, and bad news :)
[11:21] <Chipaca> the good news is that i think it worked :)
[11:21] <Chipaca> the bad news is i build udf with -race
[11:22] <Chipaca> and it's not happy
[11:22] <Chipaca> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11767220/
[11:34] <sergiusens> Chipaca: oh thanks, now I have something fun to do today!
[11:57] <Chipaca> sergiusens: you're welcome!
[11:57]  * Chipaca turned his sarcasmeter off
[12:01] <sergiusens> Chipaca: oh, I am indeed happy :)
[12:28] <zyga> hey, who'd like to work with me to create a snap out of network manager
[12:29] <zyga> I tried to get started with deb2snap but it's not possible to handle n-m yet
[12:29] <zyga> and I kind of wonder what approach to use
[12:30] <zyga> should I built nm and its dependsncies myself
[12:30] <zyga> or try to reuse the existing packaging
[12:30] <zyga> then I wonder how to bridge network hardware to n-m
[12:30] <zyga> (and keep it dynamic so I can plug hardware later and still see it)
[12:30] <zyga> and how to start all the deamons that nm needs
[12:30] <zyga> and how to integrate that with udev on the device
[12:31] <zyga> sergiusens, ogra_: ^^ any hints?
[12:39] <verterok> morning
[12:49] <zyga> ogra_: for networking, I remember what you said earlier about not depending on the core, for testing (wired) networking, should we bundle network tools (ifconfig, ping) or would you consider that to be an overkill
[12:51] <ogra_> zyga, no idea, thats an "architect" question ...
[12:52] <zyga> ogra_: who should I ask?
[12:52] <ogra_> dunno
[12:52] <ogra_> lool, tvoss or ricmm perhaps
[12:52] <zyga> lool: ^^
[12:53] <ogra_> i guess the low level bits will be in the image ... but something as high level as NM might have to become a framework or some such
[12:53] <ogra_> and it isnt even clear if we keep the if* tools or perhaps switch to systemd's network management daemon
[12:54] <zyga> ogra_: hence I want to understand how we should rewrite our network tests
[12:54] <lool> zyga: you should bundle network tools, yup
[12:55] <zyga> lool: during testing we'll also reconfigure networking
[12:55] <lool> that's ok
[12:55] <zyga> lool: will systemd undo/change any of our changes?
[12:55] <lool> zyga: not systemd
[12:56] <lool> zyga: it's using ifupdown ATM
[12:56] <lool> only eth0 comes up automatically
[12:56] <zyga> yes, I know but I recall that you want to move
[12:56] <zyga> and ifupdown is rather static
[12:56] <zyga> but systemd might be more proactive (I don't know)
[13:01] <lool> zyga: we aren't there yet though
[13:33] <tomconte> Hi guys, do you know what is the status of Snappy images on Azure? I tried to create a few VMs and they all hang at 'Provisioning' time
[13:35] <mvo> utlemming: do you know if there is a issue with azure right now? see tomconte questions one line above
[13:35] <mvo> tomconte: utlemming may know, but he is US timezone so the answer might be delayed
[13:36] <tomconte> NP thanks! the image I tried was something like Ubuntu-15.04-Snappy-core-amd64-edge-201506190757-94-en-us-30GB
[13:47] <elopio> hey sergiusens, I could use adt-run from trusty passing the ip of the testbed.
[13:47] <elopio> can you paste the error you are getting please?
[13:52] <sergiusens> elopio: I got logged out, I can try again
[13:56] <sergiusens> Chipaca: hey, forgot to send this your way https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/goget-ubuntu-touch/downloadRace/+merge/262851
[13:57] <sergiusens> mvo: thanks for getting those MPs in
[13:57] <mvo> sergiusens: hey, have you tested the lp:~sergiusens/livecd-rootfs/byeByeDebbie ? i.e. will apparmor work?
[13:57] <mvo> sergiusens: yw!
[13:58] <sergiusens> mvo: only manually tested; I can do some more live testing than more than hello-world
[13:58] <sergiusens> with more than*
[13:59] <sergiusens> mvo: btw, using the partition.new code in developer mode checks broke u-d-f :-P
[13:59] <mvo> sergiusens: *cough* sorry for that, do you want me to do a branch?
[14:00] <mvo> sergiusens: if hello-world works, thats probably good enough
[14:00] <sergiusens> mvo: no, no worries, it just caught me by surprise :-)
[14:02] <elopio> fgimenez: I changed the hangout name (once again) to not bother davmor2
[14:02] <elopio> in case you are in the other one.
[14:03] <fgimenez> elopio, np, one minute
[14:04] <davmor2> elopio: now I'm going have to beat you for bothering me again,  Consider yourself beaten ;)
[14:04] <elopio> davmor2: you asked for it
[14:05] <sergiusens> mvo: btw, ubuntu-snappy is failing to build
[14:21] <jdstrand> mvo: re byebyeDebbie-- we are talking about dpkg being gone right? /var/lib/dpkg/info/* will still be part of the readonly rootfs?
[14:37] <sergiusens> mattyw: I found your issue, well there's two actually, one is preventing the install
[14:38] <sergiusens> mattyw: if you introduce a security-override, aside from the apparmor entry you need to provide a seccomp one as well
[14:38] <sergiusens> mattyw: additionally, the apparmor profile has a read_path with a relative path, not sure why
[14:40] <sergiusens> mattyw: wrt seccomp, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/SnappyConfinement#Seccomp
[15:05] <mattyw> sergiusens, thanks for looking into it, I know very little about apparmor and seccomp - this is my introduction to them :)
[15:15] <Chipaca> fgimenez: so!
[15:16] <Chipaca> fgimenez: i am become help
[15:16] <fgimenez> Chipaca, yes thx! :) let me paste the latests results...
[15:17] <sergiusens> mattyw: we all do, but luckily jdstrand knows some more, in any case the wiki has a simple yaml example for seccomp. You might also do an initial try on not requiring this apparmor override at all
[15:18] <fgimenez> Chipaca, well, before of that, i'm creating the chroot with 'mk-sbuild --arch=armhf wily' is that ok?
[15:18] <mattyw> sergiusens, juju trys to read /etc/os-release - I was getting app armour errors when trying to run it
[15:18] <sergiusens> mattyw: I see little sense in checking the release there as I guess you enable features depending on that entry and that probably means you toggle a lot of apt stuff which is just not there
[15:18] <Chipaca> fgimenez: sounds about right :)
[15:19] <mattyw> sergiusens, that's likely true, but I thought I'd try to get it working in snappy as is, then go back and re examine - it's a good excuse to learn about apparmor etc
[15:19] <sergiusens> Chipaca: fgimenez are you going to do native qemu driven builds?
[15:19] <Chipaca> fgimenez: what are we building, btw?
[15:20] <sergiusens> mattyw: right, just add the leading slash there ;-)
[15:21] <mattyw> sergiusens, that's just a plain bug, thanks for spotting it :)
[15:21] <fgimenez> sergiusens, Chipaca i'm trying to build the snappy debs including the test ones using sbuild, not sure if that implies native qemu
[15:21] <Chipaca> fgimenez: using sbuild, yes, it involves qemu
[15:21] <sergiusens> elopio: in any case ./run-checks is broken for me on trusty when adt is installed
[15:22] <Chipaca> at least, i think so
[15:22] <Chipaca> fgimenez: or it might not! let me to the sbuild here too
[15:22] <sergiusens> Chipaca: it does if doing native (qemu-static-$arch)
[15:23] <sergiusens> err qemu-$arch-static
[15:23] <Chipaca> sergiusens: “The auto-cross-builder runs in a fairly strict mode: in particular, it does not have qemu-user-static installed in either the host filesystem or the build chroots (previous incarnations did, but that is less useful for porting to new architectures)”
[15:23] <sergiusens> it may fail plenty
[15:24] <fgimenez> Chipaca that might explain the error i'm finding, i've read somewhere about it being related to qemu... anyway, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11768227/
[15:24] <fgimenez> sergiusens, ^
[15:24] <Chipaca> ah!
[15:24] <Chipaca> yes
[15:24] <Chipaca> yes, that's qemu
[15:24] <Chipaca> failing
[15:24] <elopio> sergiusens: I didn't try that directly because I have trusty in a kvm, and I can't create another inside as ./run-checks does.
[15:24] <elopio> what I did was to take our branch that passes an ip and port instead of installing the image in a vm.
[15:25] <sergiusens> elopio: oh, the bzr bd part of run-checks is what is bad
[15:26] <elopio> if your error is building the image, I can try trusty from a live cd. If it is on adt-run, I should be able to reproduce it this way.
[15:26] <sergiusens> elopio: it ignores what platform you are on so a 15.04 snapshot would be built with wily (or trusty or *) deps when it need be built with vivid ones
[15:26] <Chipaca> fgimenez: so. You're needing the armhf package to install it in the image?
[15:26] <elopio> sergiusens: ah, that's because of your customized builder in bazaar conf.
[15:27] <elopio> or not.
[15:27] <sergiusens> elopio: it doesn't matter; if I remove that, it would build on trusty but it needs to have been built on a wily system
[15:27] <fgimenez> Chipaca, yes, until we are able to get the image from the branch we should be able to compile them to install in the boards, what would be a good approach for that?
[15:28] <elopio> sergiusens: we can specify a --builder in bzr bd to select those options.
[15:28] <Chipaca> fgimenez: which are the packages you need?
[15:29] <elopio> and we also copied your flag for receiving debsDir, so if you want to build the debs on your own, you just pass the dir.
[15:29] <sergiusens> elopio: right, if I build the debs on my own that means it can't really be part of run-checks, can it?
[15:30] <sergiusens> elopio: the only thing my bazaar.conf does is define a builder ;)
[15:30] <sergiusens> elopio: but it fails to understand -uc and -us
[15:31] <fgimenez> Chipaca, we need the ubuntu-snappy packages from a branch, including the tests one to be installed on the boards http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~fgimenez/snappy/cross-compile-debs/view/head:/debian/control for instance
[15:31] <sergiusens> elopio: and it's something that needs to be built in to run-checks (passing --builder) so we all run the same thing
[15:31] <elopio> sergiusens: that's because the -uc -us are for debuild, and you are using sbuild.
[15:31] <elopio> if we always pass --builder debuild -- -uc -us it could work.
[15:32] <elopio> what I don't know is how to tell debuild to build for vivid or wily.
[15:32] <sergiusens> elopio: yeh, but I'm saying that using --builder debuild is the wrong thing to do ;-)
[15:32] <sergiusens> elopio: and the best way to convince you of that is to get you to run your main system on trusty ;-)
[15:32] <fgimenez> Chipaca, ideally we should be able to build an image with them installed, so that we don't need to install them in a writable partition with dpkg (urgh), this is until we get there
[15:33] <elopio> trusty, ugh... :)
[15:33]  * Chipaca building a chroot by hand
[15:34]  * Chipaca wonders whether making a snappy to build amrhf snaps would win him brownie points
[15:34] <elopio> sergiusens: we could always use --builder sbuild. But then we have to document on the README the schroots that we need.
[15:34] <elopio> I see no problem about that.
[15:43] <sergiusens> elopio: I'll create a branch for that as this basically blocks me from testing anything easily
[15:43] <elopio> I wonder if this would be easier with .dsc or .changes.
[15:52] <Chipaca> well
[15:52] <Chipaca> seems we have a broken wily build right now?
[15:52] <Chipaca> src/launchpad.net/snappy/cmd/snappy/cmd_login.go:27:2: code in directory /tmp/cross-compile-debs/obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/src/code.google.com/p/go.crypto/ssh/terminal expects import "golang.org/x/crypto/ssh/terminal"
[15:55] <elopio> sergiusens: thanks.
[15:56] <elopio> fgimenez: either the test finishes before the reboot and it never happens, or it receives the segkill.
[15:56] <elopio> the only option I see is to do the reboot outside of the test binary.
[15:56] <elopio> we can do that with a wrapper script, and leaving a file /tmp/needs-reboot or something.
[16:05] <fgimenez> elopio, sounds good, it can play well with adt-run
[16:08] <fgimenez> Chipaca, i saw something similar, in my case it was looking for dependencies in /usr/share/gocode (which belongs to root) instead of the defined $GOPATH, don't know if it might be related
[16:09] <Chipaca> fgimenez: i got to the point where it got building, but then failed on some bits that don't work for cross-compiling. i'll retry in a bit
[16:09] <Chipaca> fgimenez: is it bad if i skip the package build tests?
[16:09] <Chipaca> that is, i don't run the tests during package build of this package
[16:10] <fgimenez> Chipaca, i think so, elopio? ^
[16:11] <elopio> Chipaca: not if you are running from ./run-checks.
[16:12] <elopio> when you ./run-checks, it will run the tests, and then run them again during the bzr bd.
[16:12] <Chipaca> yep
[16:12] <Chipaca> except i was hoping to not have to get the tests to pass inside a bodged up chroot :)
[16:21] <fgimenez> Chipaca, elopio leaving, will catch up tomorrow
[16:48] <Chipaca> sergiusens: is there a way to make dh_golang specify -ldflags?
[16:55] <sergiusens> Chipaca: no, I wish there were
[16:55] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I also wanted to do some neat tricks with package building for autogen'ed stuff
[16:59] <Chipaca> sergiusens: this will make my evil plan of compiling snappy with musl a lot harder
[17:03] <sergiusens> Chipaca: heh, if dh_golang had prov and build in different steps it would be rather easy though
[17:03] <sergiusens> Chipaca: btw https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snappy/seccomp/+merge/262880
[17:04] <sergiusens> oh snap, my fingers copied an extra line there :-P
[17:05] <sergiusens> there we go
[17:10] <cyphermox> elopio : just checking, do you know if today's snappy personal EFI image booting properly now?
[17:11] <elopio> cyphermox: I didn't know it wasn't booting properly before. I haven't touched personal yet.
[17:11] <cyphermox> Ah, OK. sergiusens suggested you'd know :-)
[17:12] <Chipaca> sergiusens: +1
[17:12] <Chipaca> and i'm off to have glorious, glorious dinner
[17:12]  * Chipaca 's been smelling it all day
[17:13] <elopio> Chipaca: mmm, enjoy.
[17:13] <sergiusens> cyphermox: oh, you meant personal?
[17:13] <sergiusens> cyphermox: we don't qa personal, that's on the personal team
[17:13] <elopio> cyphermox: I can give it a try. I think I just need to build ubuntu-device-flash from source.
[17:13] <elopio> s/source/trunk.
[17:13] <sergiusens> elopio: it's in wily now fwiw
[17:14] <elopio> sergiusens: ah, that's good. Thanks.
[17:14] <sergiusens> elopio: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goget-ubuntu-touch/0.25-0ubuntu1
[17:15] <elopio> sergiusens: what does that personal-oem contains?
[17:15] <cyphermox> sergiusens : sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I mean the same image that seb reported didn't boot successfully in UEFI
[17:16] <cyphermox> I can just as well test it myself later if having it working isn't an omg-fire :-)
[17:18] <sergiusens> cyphermox: ok, so I have no efi machine, it's just a seb thing :-)
[17:19] <cyphermox> OK. Well it can be tested with qemu and OVMF, but I'll play with it tonight :-) I don't want to distract you from more important things
[17:22] <elopio> cyphermox: that sounds interesting, and something we should automate somewhere.
[17:22] <elopio> I'll make a card to test with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI/OVMF
[17:24] <elopio> sergiusens: if we run the selftests on an image with personal-oem and a qemu with ovmf, do you think we should put that in lp:snappy ?
[17:26] <cyphermox> Elopio : I can share with you the qemu options to use
[17:27] <elopio> cyphermox: yes, please.
[17:27] <elopio> https://trello.com/c/I1BSZ6iV/130-run-tests-for-snappy-personal-and-uefi-boot
[17:32] <tomconte> utlemming: Hi, do you know what is the status of Snappy images on Azure? I tried to create a few VMs and they all hang at 'Provisioning' time
[17:32] <utlemming> tomconte: which image?
[17:33] <tomconte> utlemming: the image I tried was something like Ubuntu-15.04-Snappy-core-amd64-edge-201506190757-94-en-us-30GB
[17:33] <utlemming> tomconte: there is a bug with Snappy on Azure that needs to be fixed, that we have been trying to clear. I'm waiting for feedback from Microsoft.
[17:34] <utlemming> tomconte: but, yeah, I am waiting that situation. The issue is that the /writable partition is not being seen at boot.
[17:34] <utlemming> s/waiting/watching/
[17:36] <tomconte> utlemming: I can try to help, could you forward me the issue or add me to the email loop ?
[17:36] <tomconte> utlemming: I am from Microsoft :)
[17:38] <utlemming> tomconte: yeah, let me see if I can dredge up the bug report on it
[17:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: do you have a minute for a hangout?
[18:16] <Chipaca> sergiusens: now i do
[18:17] <Chipaca> elopio: https://goo.gl/photos/73DdNVzZYeEa1ZMb9
[18:20] <rsalveti> sergiusens: elopio: so let's target the next stable release for july 10, since next week we're going to have a new kernel
[18:20] <rsalveti> so target for first RC could be july 6
[18:22] <rsalveti> elopio: would probably be good to do another round of bug triaging as well, so we can target possible fixes or backports we can still work on during next week
[18:25] <rsalveti> https://launchpad.net/snappy/+milestone/15.04.2 with the date
[18:30] <Chipaca> sergiusens: am going to be around for a while, but am officially breaking out the beer in a few
[18:33] <sergiusens> Chipaca: ok, just wanted to talk about _$version and the future
[18:36] <sergiusens> Chipaca: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/days_of_future_past
[19:26] <elopio> rsalveti: great, thanks.
[19:50] <sergiusens> rsalveti: the problem with google docs instead of VCS is that it's hard for people to spot the updates ;-)
[20:25] <marcoceppi> hello! I have a raspberrypi2 and I'm trying to figure out how to flash it...
[20:26] <marcoceppi> I found this: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/snappy/raspberrypi2/ but I have no idea what I'm doing
[20:29] <sergiusens> marcoceppi: http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/start/#snappy-raspi2
[20:29] <sergiusens> marcoceppi: with the images you found there
[20:29] <marcoceppi> sergiusens: thanks!
[20:30] <sergiusens> alecu: kyrofa do you know how eaasy or hard it is to see changes in a google doc? I was udating here and there
[20:32] <alecu> sergiusens: we can only see the revision history if we have Edit permission
[20:33] <alecu> sergiusens: "File->See revision history..."
[20:33] <sergiusens> alecu: then yiu shall get them!
[20:34] <sergiusens> alecu: there!
[20:34] <alecu> sergiusens: the history view is not great, but it aggregates changes that happened close in time, so it's possible to understand what was changed.
[20:34] <alecu> sergiusens: I'll try reloading, thanks.
[20:35] <alecu> sergiusens: looks good, thanks.
[22:22] <rsalveti> sergiusens: Chipaca: elopio: what are we missing for https://code.launchpad.net/~fgimenez/snappy/go-functional-tests/+merge/261748 ?
[22:23] <elopio> rsalveti: one review.
[22:23] <rsalveti> sergiusens: Chipaca: can either of you guys take another round of review for that branch ^?
[22:24] <Chipaca> rsalveti: sure
[22:24] <Chipaca> rsalveti: in the morning :)
[22:24] <rsalveti> Chipaca: sure :-)
[22:25] <Chipaca> elopio: for future reference, it's likely i would have reviewed it by now if it weren't asking for a review from mvo explicitly
[22:25] <Chipaca> or more likely, at least :)
[22:26] <elopio> Chipaca: I added mvo just this morning, thinking that a direct ping to somebody would speed things up ;)
[22:26] <Chipaca> elopio: orly?
[22:26] <Chipaca> elopio: my apologies then!
[22:28] <marcoceppi> getting an error when trying to boot on the ubuntu matchbox rpi2
[22:28] <marcoceppi> systemd failes to load default taget: no such file or directory,?
[22:31] <marcoceppi> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kbsG4MKVxq6SbdiCHgKnf1ttfZcSdBUf-f4RAYn1W3dF=w1342-h993-no


[01:13] <ibeardslee> http://www.zdnet.com/article/where-does-the-ubuntu-linux-desktop-go-from-here/
[01:13] <ibeardslee> more on the unity -> gnome .. most interesting is that it refers to 17.11 (not 17.10)
[01:14] <ibeardslee> and I would have thought that 17.11 would be aimed to default to gnome to start ironing out the bugs BEFORE the LTS.
[01:29] <olly> i guess it depends how much custom stuff they add


[00:47] <payload> hiho
[00:48] <payload> in android, there is yet another concept for starting a different app for some sub-task. what is the proposed way of doing this in ubuntu? registering an url scheme handler?
[01:23] <mhall119> aliendude5300: the code will be public from the beginning, so you can still contribute code
[01:23] <mhall119> or you can start another app project of your own
[01:35] <Dupe> Hi there! I just received my motorola atrix lapdock, and now I found out about ubuntu for phones. Looks like a sweet combination to me :D
[01:49] <mhall119> Dupe: does that one have the Webtop?
[01:54] <Dupe> mhall119: Well its actually just a screen with battery and keyboard. I am planning to buy a fast phone and just connect it to the mini HDMI and usb ports
[02:03] <mhall119> Dupe: oh, I thought you had the atrix too
[02:04] <hourd> those things seem to be used to make raspberry pi laptops as well
[02:07] <dmj_nova> mhall119: would either of the swipes I suggested in the file browser conflict with ubuntu phone?
[02:09] <Dupe> mhall119: nah, not fast enough
[02:11] <mhall119> dmj_nova: link?
[02:11] <dmj_nova> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/File+Manager+Directory+Icons+View
[02:12] <dmj_nova> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/File+Manager+File+Metadata+View
[02:12] <mhall119> dmj_nova: as long as the swipe starts inside the app, you're fine
[02:12] <mhall119> the Unity shell only uses swipes that originate outside of the screen and come in
[02:13] <dmj_nova> okay, so even the "full swipe across the screen" gesture in Ubuntu Phone requires you to start off the edge
[02:13] <mhall119> yes
[02:13] <dmj_nova> cool
[02:14] <mhall119> basically, Unity owns the edges, apps own the screen
[02:14] <mhall119> though apps own the bottom edge too, but I'm not sure if that's shell integration (like HUD) or something each app will have to implement
[02:15] <dmj_nova> Yeah, Canonical finally made me want a phone that ships with Android :P
[02:20] <mhall119> I hope you want one that ships with Ubuntu too :)
[02:21] <hourd> dual boot :P
[02:21] <dmj_nova> Yeah, I'd buy one today if I could!
[02:22] <dmj_nova> still using a 3 year old smartphone that has always been "the next best thing to an Ubuntu phone"
[02:23] <dmj_nova> Nokia n900
[02:23] <Dupe> Is there any way to make ubuntu happen on your phone right now?
[02:24] <hourd> for the hw keyboard?
[02:24] <qrwteyrutiyoup> wow, n900 :)
[02:24] <dmj_nova> I could easily run Ubuntu on my phone, but then I couldn't make or receive phone calls
[02:25] <dmj_nova> yeah, it was a crazy awesome phone in its day
[02:25] <dmj_nova> I once wrote a webcam app on it while waiting for a professor to finish a meeting.
[02:25] <hourd> yeah i use a htc desire z for android phone with hardware keyboard and a nexuz7 dualbooting android and ubuntu for all my linux needs ;)
[02:25] <hourd> *nexus
[02:26] <hourd> dmj_nova: thats cool :)
[02:26] <dmj_nova> An Ubuntu phone with hardware keyboard would be a dream come true
[02:26] <dmj_nova> couldn't imagine writing code on a single screen device with onscreen keyboard
[02:26] <hourd> it really would
[02:29] <dmj_nova> hourd: What's your involvement with Ubuntu Phone?
[02:32] <hourd> none, but i would love to get involved
[02:33] <dmj_nova> hourd: You see their seeking design input on 12 default apps?
[02:36] <hourd> i was unaware of this
[02:37] <dmj_nova> www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/12-default-ubuntu-phone-apps-to-be-community-created
[02:38] <hourd> cheers
[03:58] <bobweaver> andyone savy with qml that wants to look at something for me ?
[03:58] <bobweaver> I am trying to pass of a color of a text property in a well property . but I get the error "Unable to assign QString to QColor"      Here is the code.  for the Root Item  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565024/       Here is the code that calls the Root Item http://paste.ubuntu.com/1565034/
[04:02] <mhall119> bobweaver: does QML have a "color" type?
[04:03] <bobweaver> NM  had to use the " property color "   not " property string "
[04:03] <mhall119> ah, that's what I was thinking, but didn't know enough QML
[04:04] <bobweaver> thanks though mhall119  :)
[04:04] <mhall119> np
[04:04] <bobweaver> yeah dude on qt-qml told me about the property thingy
[04:04]  * mhall119 is off to bed, see you all in the morning
[08:02] <cumptrnrd> Does anyone have this running in a Nexus 4?
[08:03] <cumptrnrd> I have only seen pictures and videos of the Galaxy Nexus
[08:22] <dmj_nova> cumptrnrd: I think it's just a bit too early for that yet
[08:23] <dmj_nova> The images and source code will be released in February.
[10:15] <Sergey__> hello all. has any mockups of Ubuntu Weather?
[11:40] <sqrt7744> will qml based apps for harmattan be easily portable, i.e. similar components like PageStackWindows and whatnot?
[12:00] <mitro> hi all
[12:01] <mitro> I'm new to Ubuntu OS. Using an MacPro, iPhone, so can I get invoke to this project?
[12:02] <mitro> If available, could anyone tell me where to get start :D
[12:18] <GuidoPallemans> mitro: by programming? or how exactly?
[12:18] <tsdgeos> sqrt7744: you can find the available sdk at http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[12:19] <tsdgeos> the concepts seem to be similar
[12:19] <mitro> What do you mean by "by programming"?
[12:19] <mitro> Thank tsdgeos.
[12:42] <doomlord> does ubuntu for android replace or augment android
[12:44] <doomlord> will it work ok on tablets eg nexus 7
[12:45] <popey> U4A augments, not replaces android
[12:45] <popey> Ubuntu for Phones replaces android
[12:46] <doomlord> ah, "ubuntu-for-android" contrasts with "ubuntu-for-phones"
[12:46] <popey> ya
[12:46] <popey> two separate products
[12:47] <doomlord> so the latter has telephony integrated i guess (my friend asked, "what happens if your docked phone takes a call, isn't that inconvinient.." to which skype should have provided a decent answer lol)
[12:47] <doomlord> anything else present or missing ?
[12:48] <doomlord> is it primarily telephony + tiny touchscreen UI optimization?
[12:48] <popey> they both have telephony features
[12:48] <popey> calls / texts
[12:49] <doomlord> its of great interest to me.. ubuntu has become my primary OS
[12:51] <doomlord> can you confirm it is honest-to-god linux, e.g. one can fire up a terminal and "sudo apt-get ... "
[12:51] <doomlord> (honest to god Desktop linux, i should say)
[13:05] <ninjatux3> #fossevents
[13:28] <astraljava> But... but... aren't terminal commands as honest-to-$deity in any linux, outside desktop category, too? ;)
[13:41] <doomlord> honest to $deity linux in the way that ubuntu or fedora are wheras android is not .. the whole linux desktop experience & package manager
[13:41] <hourd> yes its uspposed to run full ubuntu with a phone interface
[13:42] <doomlord> arm vs x86 binaries of course
[13:42] <doomlord>  sounds awesome
[13:42] <hourd> how i understand it is that it's like running a different display manager while in phone form and the external display runs unity or whatever you put on it
[13:42] <doomlord> i have a gaalaxy nexus which i gather is the hardware its demo'd on
[13:42] <hourd> full full ubuntu(arm) backend
[13:42] <doomlord> display-manager... window-manager? or not quite
[13:42] <doomlord> customized unity i see
[13:43] <doomlord> but the display manager controls how it logs  on and so on?
[13:43] <doomlord> i guess its unlikely phones will ever come with it pre-installed
[13:44] <hourd> with what pre-installed?
[13:44] <doomlord> ubuntu
[13:44] <hourd> why not?
[13:44] <doomlord> joe public will prefer android
[13:44] <hourd> ...
[13:45] <hourd> that was said about iphone when android came out
[13:45] <hourd> look at android now
[13:45] <doomlord> i mean for *me* , if its what is being said here, it would be perfect
[13:45] <doomlord> but i'm not typical. i often like things purely because they are differnt
[13:45] <jussi> wayland will make a decent experience out of it.
[13:46] <doomlord> ah is this using wayland yet?
[13:46] <jussi> Not sure if they have fully implemented yet, but as I understand the release will have wayland
[13:46] <hourd> what im trying to say is before android came out th eoption was iOS or some other things. then android came otu and people said why get android iOS is better. now android is huge
[13:47] <doomlord> ok
[13:47] <hourd> ubuntu phone will hopefully be the same
[13:47] <hourd> or similar progression
[13:47] <hourd> the proper docking is a major feature. desktop in your pocket
[13:47] <doomlord> same with windows8, i think once you see the crossover (and hybrid devices) the contraversial post-wimp phonified desktops will start to make more sense to people
[13:48] <doomlord> but i hope true windowing is kept just like terminal/textmode
[13:49] <doomlord> ubuntu for *android* ... do they keep the menubar visible for touchfriendliness..
[13:50] <doomlord> i guess ubuntu phone interface optimized apps wont use menubar at all
[13:50] <popey> ubuntu for android is android when a phone and ubuntu when docked
[13:50] <popey> so when docked it would be attached to a screen
[13:50] <popey> with mouse and keyboard
[13:50] <popey> so would function just like a pc running ubuntu does now, but with telephony features enabled and integration with the phone stack
[13:50] <hourd> basicly in docked treat it as a desktop, you dont touch it and use an external screen
[13:51] <popey> so the menu bar would work just as it does now
[13:51] <popey> correct
[13:51] <hourd> same with ubuntu phone
[13:51] <hourd> but that also has full ubuntu backend in phone form but with a phone ui
[13:51] <doomlord> i'm one of these people who thinks they should keep the menu fully visible but its not a major flaw
[13:51] <hourd> doomlord: menu visible on the phone screen?
[13:52] <doomlord> i figured 'globalmenu' might actully be ok with top edge swipe on android tablets
[13:52] <hourd> thats how it is
[13:52] <doomlord> phone screen .. i guess a traditional WIMP menu will really suffer
[13:52] <hourd> doomlord: have you seen the demo videos on the phone ui?
[13:52] <doomlord> a few
[13:52] <hourd> so its nothing liek a desktop ui
[13:52] <doomlord> i've seen the dock appearing from right edge swipe
[13:53] <hourd> yeah
[13:53] <hourd> left
[13:53] <doomlord> and the indicator swipes, thats smart
[13:53] <doomlord> oops left yes
[13:53] <doomlord> i always thought 'expo' would be nice on a touchscreen
[13:53] <hourd> when docked it outputs on an external screen and is no different to your current desktop ubuntu but running arm not x86
[13:54] <doomlord> it probably doesn't do that though
[13:54] <hourd> which is nice
[13:54] <hourd> expo?
[13:54] <doomlord> (copy of mac osx spaces)
[13:54] <hourd> ?
[13:54] <doomlord> (compiz plugin.. zoom out to see multiple desktop thumbnails)
[13:54] <hourd> sorry i havnt used OSX much
[13:54] <hourd> oh
[13:55] <hourd> hasnt linux has that for over a decade?
[13:55] <doomlord> yes
[13:55] <hourd> "copy of osx spaces"?
[13:55] <popey> the phone doesn't really have a concept of desktops
[13:55] <popey> you have full screen apps
[13:55] <hourd> but yes you will have that in docked
[13:55] <popey> indeed
[13:55] <hourd> but not on phone ui
[13:55] <doomlord> in phone mode i guess it will all be fullscreen
[13:56] <popey> although we're switching to one desktop by default now
[13:56] <popey> not four
[13:56] <hourd> the option is there though right?
[13:56] <popey> yes
[13:56] <hourd> good :)
[13:56] <popey> just default changing
[13:56] <hourd> thats fine
[13:56] <doomlord> i thought it would be nice if it was 1 desktop until you maximize something
[13:56] <hourd> less overhead i asume?
[13:57] <doomlord> kind of like how osx lion does things... a different type of maximize which is really 'fullscreen on its own new workspce'
[13:57] <popey> its not done for that reason
[13:57] <hourd> popey: thats just default on unity though? I can just install cinnamon or something and do whatever
[13:57] <popey> of course
[13:57] <popey> I'm only talking about unity
[13:57] <hourd> yeah :)
[13:57] <popey> not some random other 3rd party desktop ☺
[13:57] <hourd> didnt know if there was some funky OS limitation
[13:57] <hourd> yeah. i dont use unity much
[13:57] <doomlord> what wouldbe really nice on unity is if it dynamically added screens as you fill them .. 1-> 2x2 -> 3x3
[13:58] <hourd> doomlord: gnome3 does that
[13:58] <hourd> number of active workspaces + 1
[13:58] <doomlord> unfortunately i've never enjoyed gnome.. strange.. i prefer everything asside from that in unity
[13:59] <hourd> cinnamon has a 1-click to add new workspace feature which is nice
[13:59] <doomlord> i think the desktop overview zooming would really suit the phone screen
[13:59] <hourd> its liek a mix of gnome2 and 3
[13:59] <hourd> doomlord: how so? is the screen no far too small to do that?
[14:00] <doomlord> android just puts thumbnails on the side..
[14:00] <hourd> oh...that
[14:01] <hourd> im pretty sure theres a list of open 'apps'
[14:01] <hourd> on the 'home' screen maybe
[14:01] <doomlord> synergy might be interesting on this
[14:02] <hourd> oh?
[14:02] <doomlord> you know the tool for providing the illusion of multiple machines being one multi-screen desktop :)
[14:03] <doomlord> lets say your desktop pc or laptop can only drive 2 screens.. but you  have a phone aswell -  use it for  3rd screen :)
[14:03] <jussi> I like the Meego/Harmatttan way of showing open apps on the phone
[14:04] <doomlord> something else that would be awsome i think is a desktop keyboard-dock, placing the phone where it can be used as a trackpad
[14:05] <hourd> doomlord: you can do the trackpad thing with android, theres apps for it
[14:06] <hourd> also yeah sorry, i know what synergy is just a phone is rather small for it
[14:07] <doomlord> well i hope this does appeal to joe public aswell
[14:08] <doomlord> phone+TV could suit joe public over and above laptop/desktop
[14:08] <hourd> i'm about to try synergy on ym laptop + nexus 7
[14:09] <doomlord> you have linux on nexus7 ? i'm considering getting one, but if linux runs well on it that would be a more copelling reason
[14:09] <doomlord> commpelling^ reason to get one
[14:09] <hourd>  dual boot ubuntu 13.04 and android 4.2.1
[14:10] <doomlord> wow that works ok?
[14:10] <hourd> works fine
[14:10] <hourd> bit of modding required
[14:10] <doomlord> will one be able to dual  boot a phone
[14:10] <hourd> liek unlocking bootloader, custom bootloader, ubuntu rom etc..
[14:10] <hourd> but it runs fine
[14:11] <hourd> yeah you can dual boot phones fine, again will need custom bootloader and compatable rom and kernel
[14:11] <hourd> doomlord: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7
[14:11] <doomlord> with linux docked will you still be able to view the phones' filesystem when plugged into  pc as a usb device
[14:12] <hourd> sorry could you rephrase that?
[14:12] <doomlord> if you have ubuntu-phone - can you view the phone's filesystem as a USB hard-drive when you plug it into a PC
[14:12] <hourd> i'd imagine so
[14:13] <hourd> will my android phone i can, and also use it as usb host
[14:13] <hourd> *with
[14:14] <riply> Hi guys, I've read the FAQ and come here with a question that's more than likely been asked a thousand times.. will I be able to ditch the iOS and install this on my iPhone?
[14:14] <doomlord> i'm in 2 minds.. i have a galaxy nexus and an ipad, but as far as gadgets go i'm very tempted by a galaxy note , either 5.5 or 10.1.. i gather they will be doing  a galaxy-note- 7.7 which would be perfect
[14:15] <k1l> riply: never is that gonna happen
[14:15] <riply> doomlord, they say in the FAQ that they've not yet decided whether you're going to get root access, so I'd imagine that would answer your question with 'maybe'?
[14:15] <k1l> riply: you bought the wrong device if you want to be able to flash your own roms
[14:15] <doomlord> how do you physically go about reinstalling
[14:15] <riply> k1l, that is not what I wanted to hear :(
[14:16] <doomlord> can you backup your phone's total state before installing ubuntu-phone
[14:16] <riply> thankfully my contract is almost up. Samsung here we come.
[14:16] <hourd> doomlord: it will probably just overwrite the entire device
[14:16] <hourd> unless you use multirom or something
[14:16] <riply> doomlord, does that mean, however that you'll be able to access the filesystem though? ie chmod and things like that?
[14:16] <doomlord> i'm kind of hoping one can backup the device :)
[14:17] <hourd> doomlord: yeah abd backup via the android sdk
[14:17] <riply> doomlord, there is talk of a duel-boot?
[14:17] <k1l> i think it will erase the android while installing.
[14:17] <smartboyhw> Hmm I tried installing qt5-meta-full in the Canonical Qt5 beta 1 PPA, and two of the packages are not installable (due to build errors in Ubuntu repo)
[14:17] <riply> I guess only time will tell :)
[14:17] <smartboyhw> Any solutions?
[14:17] <k1l> dont see that there is enough space for both OS on the storage
[14:17] <hourd> doomlord: http://i.imgur.com/eqyUiYv.jpg just taken of my nexus 7
[14:17] <riply> k1l, also true!
[14:18] <doomlord> that looks awesome
[14:18] <riply> agreed - awesome
[14:18] <hourd> just waiting for the otg adapter to plug in peripherals
[14:19] <hourd> then goign to 3d print a dock for it all
[14:19] <doomlord> can you use bluetooth keybord
[14:19] <hourd> yes
[14:19] <k1l> hourd: what about the touch-friendlyness? i had ubuntu-arm running on my tablet an unity wasnt really good to use
[14:19] <hourd> its ok, you have to be pretty acurate when closing windows
[14:19] <hourd> but otherwise its fine
[14:20] <doomlord> its got tweaks like 3-finger window-drag?
[14:20] <hourd> no idea let me try
[14:20] <doomlord> i thought a pinch-gesture for desktop overview would be wesome
[14:20] <hourd> yes
[14:20] <doomlord> i thought a pinch-gesture for desktop overview would be awesome
[14:20] <hourd> yes it does
[14:20] <popey> smartboyhw: ask bzoltan
[14:21] <hourd> doomlord: thanks for that. i did not know
[14:22] <doomlord> i recall how osx snow leopard was awesome with 3 finger drag on the trackpad with 'spaces' .. that was the best window-management of any system (the way spaces+expose aka expo+scale worked together with multitouch)
[14:22] <doomlord> do they use 4 finger swipe for anything
[14:23] <hourd> 4 gets a bit awekward
[14:23] <smartboyhw> bzoltan, ping
[14:30] <doomlord> how is ubuntu/androids onscreen keyboard controlled
[14:36] <petko10> hey guys , I wanted to ask if there are plans to get the Ubuntu TV in the Ubuntu Phone . As in - will it at some point be possible to connect the phone via HDMI to a tv/screen , launch an app (to start Ubuntu TV) and use the TV remote to control it (via HDMI CEC)
[14:36] <JavierDelgado> Hi all
[14:36] <doomlord> does the nexus 7 have a dock that  can do hdmi out
[14:37] <hourd> i would also liek to know this
[14:38] <JavierDelgado> I also have a Nexus 7 but it does't have HDMI or similar port to output
[14:38] <doomlord> probably wishful thinking, i suspect all part of the minimal price
[14:38] <JavierDelgado> Only Audio port, if you need to see what is on the scree, you can install a VNC Server
[14:39] <JavierDelgado> I have a little query to developers
[14:39] <petko10> I think some devices can output HDMI via the audio jack and a ... wat's  the word - a cable with audio jack at one end and HDMI at the other
[14:39] <petko10> *what's
[14:40] <JavierDelgado> What is the best languaje, I am using Vala with GTK for Ubuntu
[14:40] <JavierDelgado> But I am feeling so slow
[14:41] <JavierDelgado> So, what is better for Ubuntu, Qt or GTK?
[14:41] <petko10> That's the reason there's support for a veriety of languages - so you can have your preference
[14:41] <petko10> both are supported
[14:41] <doomlord> i always thought ubuntu was more gtk
[14:41] <petko10> I like the Qt framework and tools (and I prefer c++ rather than C)
[14:42] <doomlord> Qt - > KDE
[14:42] <petko10> well before - maybe , but I haven't had any problems with Qt in Ubuntu
[14:43] <JavierDelgado> And, as we are in ubuntu-phones jeje
[14:43] <JavierDelgado> What is the "oficial" languaje for this platform?
[14:43] <petko10> it's mostly about your preference as I said before (for the desktop - on phones it's Qt ;) )
[14:44] <petko10> search for "gomobile ubuntu"
[14:44] <petko10> and you'll get the get started guide
[14:44] <petko10> it's the Qt framework
[14:44] <petko10> for native apps
[14:44] <petko10> and HTML5 for webapps
[14:44] <JavierDelgado> So Qt with C++ would work under Ubuntu for Phones?
[14:45] <doomlord> i think it would
[14:45] <petko10> yes as I've come to know . I haven't actually used it yet
[14:45] <popey> doomlord: no, the nexus 7 can't do hdmi out
[14:45] <doomlord> ok
[14:45] <doomlord> cant have everything i guess
[14:46] <JavierDelgado> Ok, thank you very much
[14:46] <popey> the dock doens't do much actually, only usb and power
[14:47] <JavierDelgado> And the last query jejej
[14:48] <JavierDelgado> If I develop an terminal application under Qt, Which libraries whould I need to run under Ubuntu Server or Raspberry Pi with Debian?
[14:48] <JavierDelgado> Do you know it?
[14:52] <alo21> Hi...I would like to write a app which simulates a torch... and I would like to know if I can simulate the hardware input/output
[14:52] <doomlord> hah. i have actully used a mobile device as  torch when bulbs blow up
[14:53] <alo21> doomlord, can you help me?
[14:54] <doomlord> i dont thinkso specifically. i mean.. i just found myself in the dark, and tapping my ipad screen = light :)
[15:00] <doomlord> do you know if ubuntu-android would run on the galaxy-note ..
[15:06] <alo21> doomlord, i am sorry, but I do not know
[15:06] <alo21> doomlord, but I think it could be
[15:08] <popey> doomlord: no devices have been announced for UfA
[15:21] <doomlord> so nexus7 is my best bet i guess
[15:26] <arij_> doomlord, you can wait
[15:26] <arij_> then hope some one ports it
[15:27] <arij_> to a nexus 4 or whatevr u want it on
[15:27] <popey> doomlord: nexus 7 is best bet for what?
[15:27] <doomlord> ubuntu gadgetry
[15:28] <popey> well, you can run ubuntu on a nexus7 now
[15:28] <hourd> yup
[15:28] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7
[15:28] <popey> but that is neither Ubuntu for Phones nor Ubuntu for Android
[15:28] <popey> but just stock Ubuntu desktop
[15:29] <arij_> thats cool
[15:31] <hourd> runs reasonably well too
[15:39] <bzoltan1>  smartboyhw: pong, what can I do for you sir :) ?
[15:39] <smartboyhw> bzoltan1, the qt5-meta-full package is not working
[15:42] <Andy80> bzoltan1.Enque(ping); (when you've finished with smartboyhw I've a quesiton too :P )
[15:42] <bzoltan1> smartboyhw: precise?
[15:42] <smartboyhw> bzoltan1, raring
[15:42] <smartboyhw> in the beta one
[15:42] <bzoltan1> smartboyhw:  let me check the build results.... what package failed on R
[15:42] <smartboyhw> bzoltan1, https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta1/+packages
[15:43] <bzoltan1> qtwayland it is
[15:51] <bzoltan1> smartboyhw has left... anyhow I just pushed the wayland for raring, the qtwayland depends on it and qt5-meta wants to pull that too
[15:51] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  I am all yours :)
[15:52] <Andy80> bzoltan1, here or private dialog? (no secrets anyway :P )
[15:52] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  Shoot here
[15:52] <Andy80> ok
[15:53] <Andy80> bzoltan1, I found also templates for "Qt Quick 2 UI" app, you can find it here http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-creator/qt-creator/trees/master/share/qtcreator/templates/qml/qtquick2
[15:53] <Andy80> BUT
[15:53] <Andy80> in general QtCreator is NOT able to deploy a pure QML app :(
[15:53] <Andy80> it can deploy a QML and C++ one because internally the code supports deploying on "Generic Linux Device"
[15:54] <Andy80> but it cannot do the same with pure QML
[15:54] <Andy80> basically the answer was that since they didn't need it, they didn't implement it
[15:54] <bzoltan1> Andy80: it should be able to do it with qmlscene
[15:54] <Andy80> and if you create a "Qt Quick 2 UI" and you try to manually add our "Kit", QtCreator doesn't let you add it
[15:55] <bzoltan1> Andy80: that is odd
[15:55] <Andy80> it should, but it doesn't allow you.
[15:55] <bzoltan1> Andy80: I think you better check with the upstream devs
[15:55] <Andy80> at this point the path will be harder.... I mean... we have to go to a custom plugin
[15:55] <Andy80> yeah surely I will do it
[15:55] <Andy80> but I already asked to people on #qt-creator
[15:56] <Andy80> maybe I can ask again on the mailing list, but.... it won't be fast as expected
[15:56] <Andy80> :(
[16:02] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  let me pull in jppiiroinen who used to work on the N9's application developer. He might have some idea too
[16:04] <Andy80> bzoltan1, someone just told me "qt quick 2 ui projects are handled by the qmlprojectmanager, which can only handle desktop devices". Infact there is no .pro in pure QML projects...
[16:05] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  hmmm... odd
[16:07] <Andy80> bzoltan1, oh... btw this someone is Daniel Teske from Digia, he probably knows enough :\ he's the same who helped me in the mailing list. We must see if it's possible to customize the qmlprojectmanager.... I was going to read the BB10 plugin but they don't use pure QML projects, so I would not find anything that I need
[16:10] <bzoltan1> Andy80:  So it is only about remotely launch a qml app on a linux device?
[16:12] <Andy80> bzoltan1, not only.... since qmlprojectmanager doesn't support "Generic Linux Device" it doesn't deploy the application too
[16:12] <Andy80> but...
[16:13] <Andy80> if you think about it for a moment it's not something impossible: if cou copy a binary you can copy a .qml too
[16:13] <Andy80> if you remoteli execute "yourbinary" you can also execute "qmlscene yourapp.qml"
[16:13] <Andy80> it's just not implemented yet
[16:14] <Andy80> we probably have to see how these plugins are implemented and write our own
[16:14] <Andy80> of course it won't be easy like configuring a kit or writing a project wizard template :P but we can do it
[16:21] <omac777> ubuntu fans want ubuntu desktop common look and feel on their phone.  Tablets and phones have dual-core 64-bit desktop performance so ubuntu unity could be useable although not ideal without a usb keyboard/mouse attached.  What I'm implying is I don't want anyone to redesign common apps that already "just work".  I think most ubuntu fans just want the same stuff running but from their phones and tablets.  Is that too much to a
[16:22] <Andy80> omac777, it makes no sense, imho :P
[16:22] <omac777> I also think Android's auto-rotate feature simply off/on, not that convenient.  It would be better to implement rotate screen with 2 multi-touch rotating fingers and the gui snapping every 90 degrees.
[16:23] <doomlord> i think it makes sense for apps to query if a mouse/keyboard is connected, and change their UI appropriately
[16:23] <Andy80> omac777, I'm happy with the fact that Ubuntu Phones mockups/preview are different from desktop UI
[16:23] <doomlord> Some changes are non-destructive - e.g. sometimes making lists more tile-like is just a case of moving the same information around a bit
[16:23] <Andy80> doomlord, it would be the worst eng ever seen :D
[16:24] <Andy80> ENV variables are used for this
[16:24] <Andy80> not a heavy api call that check for a device
[16:24] <doomlord> why not just query on startup - and have a windowing system message when a new device is connected/disconnected
[16:25] <doomlord> just like receiving/losing focus
[16:26] <Andy80> mmm... probably you're talking about a "docking" solution, right? I mean... a different UI if you just use the phone alone or if you plug it in a docking station and use mouse+keyboard+monitor, right?
[16:26] <omac777> Where is the justification to redesign the entire gui frontend simply for the phone and tablet?  It seems ubuntu has completely thrown out the windowing managers for ubuntu-phone and completely rely on the QT5 QtQuick framework to build apps.  Where are all the underlying interapplication communications we know and love like select/cut/paste between applications within the QtQuick Framework.  Why can't we have 2 applications d
[16:27] <doomlord> yes
[16:27] <doomlord> but the same app could check whats going on
[16:27] <Andy80> omac777, having the same UI on Desktop and Phone makes no sense for me.
[16:28] <doomlord> phone defnitely needs tweaked UI
[16:28] <doomlord> fingers vs mouse cursor.
[16:28] <dmj_nova> Well, I think there's a difference between "same UI" and "common technology"
[16:28] <doomlord> no "preselection highlight" on fingers
[16:28] <doomlord> for starters
[16:28] <Andy80> the backend of the application can be the same
[16:28] <Andy80> but the UI must be different
[16:28] <dmj_nova> I would definitely hope one could use say a GTK application on Ubuntu Phone
[16:28] <omac777> Ok let me ask you a question then.  When Android came out, were you disappointed with the UI and the fact that all the digital freedoms you had on the desktop were not there?  All the way of interacting between the applications were not there?
[16:29] <dmj_nova> written with the Phone in mind of course
[16:29] <doomlord> tablets would be unusble with desktop GUI
[16:29] <doomlord> windows was on tablets for ages and no one used it
[16:30] <Andy80> omac777, first of all Android was not my first smartphone :P second, I'm happy (I repeat again) with the fact that desktop and phone/tablets have different UI
[16:30] <Andy80> Deskto UI makes no sense on tablet
[16:30] <omac777> I know I was disappointed with the Android experience.  When I associate ubuntu and phone together, I imagine ubuntu linux and everything I have experienced with unity or gnome, but on the phone.  I don't expect it to be a completely different way to interact with it or to developer for it.
[16:30] <Andy80> just like Metro Win8 UI makes no sense on Desktop
[16:30] <Andy80> (infact I use old Desktop mode when I have to work on it)
[16:30] <doomlord> desktop, lines of text are ok.. tablet/phone - clickable elements have to be squarer
[16:31] <doomlord> i think eventually people will find ways of doing things more pleasingly that are ok on both
[16:31] <Andy80> omac777, you can't expect the same UI when you use just your fingers on a smaller screen
[16:31] <doomlord> using image like previews... spatial information more often with text within
[16:31] <doomlord> ZUIs
[16:32] <dmj_nova> omac777: Are you wanting the exact UI to be the same or are you referring to things like "common toolkits" and "system clipboards"
[16:33] <omac777> Even with Zoomable UI's, the widgets and the windows representing each application are intact.  Why not have the exact UI on the phone for as long as the ZUI is there.
[16:33] <dmj_nova> By the way, I do have a frame of reference here for what desktop apps on a smartphone is like.
[16:34] <doomlord> you cant push with your finger as precisely as with a mouse... you just cant
[16:34] <Andy80> omac777, I think you're the only one wanting it :P
[16:34] <dmj_nova> I've got OpenOffice and Chromium installed on my phone
[16:34] <doomlord> and yet you have other ways of expressing commands i.e. multitouch
[16:35] <Andy80> dmj_nova, and you can use them? And with "use" I don't mean "being able to start it"
[16:35] <dmj_nova> In some ways it's better than not having them as an option
[16:35] <dmj_nova> but one should be aware what they're getting with them
[16:35] <doomlord> What you'd need for same UI on both is *Pre Selection Highlight*... the phone screen would need to detech when youur finger is close and display  cursor
[16:35] <omac777> I never said multitouch can't be introduced.  If fact, it would be nice to see some usb multitouch devices appear on the market to make the desktops more phone like touch-wise.
[16:36] <doomlord> maybe they could do that with a camera...
[16:36] <doomlord> camera trcking your fingers near the screen :)
[16:36] <omac777> A mouse and a finger however are identical, drag and drop wise, click-wise, double-click wise.
[16:36] <Andy80> imho having the same UI on Desktop and Phone is just like pretending to lick your finger to be able to turn a book page on a Kindle :D
[16:36] <doomlord> no they re not
[16:36] <doomlord> they are way off
[16:36] <dmj_nova> doomlord: you can actually use many desktops without pre selection highlight, just it's not ideal
[16:36] <doomlord> your finger has a large contact patch
[16:36] <doomlord> pre-selection highlight e.g. cursor chnging to show you what it will do is awesome
[16:37] <doomlord> oh and you get right click too with  a mouse.. no such thing on a touchscreen
[16:37] <hourd> touch and hold?
[16:37] <omac777> touch and hold brings up the right-click behaviour in android.
[16:37] <dmj_nova> doomlord: on n900 press and hold acted like right click
[16:37] <doomlord> ergonomically its very different too - dragging with a touchscreen just isn't as pleasant s with a mouse
[16:37] <doomlord> finger friction
[16:38] <doomlord> Usually your finger is a blob 2 lines of text wide
[16:38] <doomlord> it needs completely different UI design
[16:38] <omac777> I'll agree with the finger friction.  It gets annoying to drag the finger on the screen a lot.
[16:38] <hourd> touch pens!
[16:38] <hourd> hurr
[16:39] <omac777> touch pens.  Honestly I don't have one, but they do look cool.
[16:39] <doomlord> yeah i've tried this with ipad programming, emulating  mouse cursor for CAD.. its aful
[16:39] <dmj_nova> If the common technologies used for current desktop apps are present in phone mode (and I would certainly hope they are), anyone could do a crappy port that doesn't change anything except make it accessible in the phone UI.
[16:39] <hourd> i hate the ones with the rubber tips, but the ones on the galaxy note are great. the 'active' stylus
[16:40] <doomlord> needing a stylus defeats the immiediacy of a touchscreen
[16:40] <dmj_nova> Then it's just up to users to decide if they want said "desktop app on a phone"
[16:40] <hourd> only a little
[16:40] <omac777> I'm only giving constructive criticisms.  I would love for ubuntu phone to succeed and not just be another android.
[16:40] <dmj_nova> I like having a stylus on the n900
[16:40] <doomlord> the only solution i can thinnk of is "kinect" like ability for the phone to predict where your finger is near the screen and display a precise cursor :)
[16:40] <dmj_nova> I rarely use it day to day, but it's great for mypaint
[16:41] <doomlord> if thats even possible (how much image procecssing bandwidth?)
[16:41] <hourd> doomlord: if you are interested in a close version of kinect i suggest you look up leap motion ;)
[16:41] <doomlord> or people can evolve sharpened fingers
[16:41] <dmj_nova> now that would make a great default app, mypaint
[16:41] <hourd> its designed for controlling a computer with your hands without touching it
[16:42] <Tak> related: https://plus.google.com/112802981015283975416/posts/NAwdyVn6VSf
[16:43] <doomlord> they've done studies and measured, fingers are officially 2/3rds as efficient as mouse for most tasks
[16:43] <omac777> The proof of android not being what users want is my wife has a android phone, an android tablet and a laptop at her disposal:  She picks the laptop every time when doing anything.  She won't use the phone unless she's receiving a call.  She finds calling on the laptop most convenient.
[16:43] <doomlord> they're better at some simple tasks but as soon as you need precision its just not as good
[16:43] <doomlord> so the UI needs to work harder
[16:43] <doomlord> more screen transitions
[16:44] <doomlord> oh there is another possibility... sonys' "Backtouch" on the vita.. but its a bit odd
[16:44] <doomlord> you could have the "backtouch" controlling a cursor :)
[16:45] <doomlord> probably a bit awkward though
[16:50] <omac777> Going back to what I mentioned before, the ubuntu brandname has been made on being a great DESKTOP experience and also providing great server software.  when people heard of ubuntu phone, I will bet many were hopeful to see the great DESKTOP experience on the phone, but with some added-value touch capability and that's it.  As a developer, losing access to the known ubuntu desktop apis is highly constraining.
[16:51] <omac777> And I'm not a fan of QML and javascript either.
[16:51] <doomlord> you just cannot have the desktop experience without... a desktop. Clue is in the name.
[16:52] <doomlord> keyboard and multi-button pointer
[16:52] <omac777> Qt's ok, as long as it resides within a window being managed by your favourite flavor of window manager.
[16:52] <omac777> To discover that all disappearing overnight on ubuntu-phone is disappointing.
[16:52] <doomlord> its not dissapearing , because the desktop remains unchanged
[16:53] <doomlord> and there is "ubuntu-for-Android" wihch is just the desktop ported across
[16:53] <doomlord> if you want the desktop experience perhaps you want a device like the Galaxy Note with a stylus
[16:53] <omac777> ubuntu for android is not an option.  It's too slow because of the two co-existing operating systems running at the same time.
[16:54] <omac777> The unity interface from within "ubuntu for android" takes forever to load up when compared to the seconds it takes to load up ubuntu on a desktop.
[16:54] <doomlord> Hve you tried using a desktop on a touchscreen
[16:54] <doomlord> find one of those  "windows 7" atom tablets from about 2 years ago...
[16:55] <doomlord> and its not just  touchscreen on the phone... its a SMALL touchscreen. the physical size makes a big difference
[16:55] <omac777> Yes, but you need to be patient with the onboard keyboard.  Typing from a screen board sucks because there is not easy reference points on the screen to touch to place your fingers properly.
[16:55] <doomlord> basically you can only touch the screen with a grid precision of about 8x16
[16:55] <doomlord> 8x12 . i dont know... its very low
[16:56] <doomlord> Also a desktop assumes 2-handed operation is availble .. precision of mouse plus speed of hotkeys
[16:56] <omac777> the Netbooks that your are referring too had awfully small keyboards which wouldn't work with my stubby fingers.
[16:57] <doomlord> i dont mean netbooks
[16:57] <doomlord> i mean the windows7 tablets eg Acer W500 i think it was called
[16:57] <doomlord> acer or asus? there was an atom tablet before win8
[16:58] <doomlord> Acer Iconia Tab W500
[16:58] <doomlord> take a look at that to see how desktop turns out with a touchscreen... its terrible
[16:58] <omac777> ok, what is the point with the keyboard on the touchscreen.  All the sensitivities of these screens are similar aren't they?
[16:58] <doomlord> the point is .. its just terrible.  you cannot type fast on a touchscreen. end of story.
[16:58] <doomlord> keyboards are for typing.
[16:58] <optimus55> Hey i followed all the instructions here http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/#step-get-toolkit to install QT5 and the ubuntu QML toolkit preview but QT creator still says import QtQtuick 2.0 and Ubuntu.Components 0.1 are missing. Any ideas???
[16:59] <omac777> I completely agree about not being able to type quickly on a touch screen.
[16:59] <optimus55> when i apt-get install qt-components-ubuntu again it says 0 upgraded, installed, etc
[16:59] <doomlord> and you have no left/right click either...
[16:59] <doomlord> and your selection precision is about 8x12 , not 1280x800
[16:59] <doomlord> its chalk and cheese
[17:00] <omac777> But simply because it's a tablet/phone, doesn't not imply that I don't want to type though.  I just need to be patient.  The other thing is these devices need to have the ability to connect the keyboard when speed typing is critical.
[17:00] <doomlord> well the phone UI's still have typing
[17:00] <doomlord> but you just can't use desktop windows & menus on a phone screen. Have you ever tried it? its terrible.
[17:01] <doomlord> its been done - and its just laughable
[17:01] <optimus55> does anyone have an idea how to fix the missing Ubuntu.Components 0.1 issue in the QML toolkit guide?
[17:01] <doomlord> there's a famous video of steve balmer trying to explain you could do it and showing publicly how bad it ws
[17:01] <doomlord> before windows 8 was in development
[17:03] <omac777> the phone ui's got typing, but none of the DESKTOP window management api, nor the same repository as the desktop from which to update from.  I truly believe this to be less than ideal.  If there were arm desktops, tablets and phones, I honestly believe they should be updated from the same repository and let the software adapt to the device profile, but without sacrificing the entire DESKTOP/SERVER devloper libs already in the
[17:03] <dmj_nova> doomlord: omac777: Having access to a desktop app on a phone screen is a bit better than not being able to perform said task at all, but apps should build a custom phone UI if possible.
[17:04] <doomlord> i think in time people will just make more phone-like UI's .. it'll be a fassion that becomes more prevalent especially now that mainstream OS's are touch
[17:04] <omac777> Although less probable, I still think any arm device can be a server and can behave like my desktop providing all the repos .debs are available as is the case for ubuntu for android.(armel .debs).
[17:04] <doomlord> (mainstream consumer OS's and hence mainstream consumer hardware
[17:05] <doomlord> since windows 8 was released we're getting hybrid touch-laptops
[17:05] <popey> optimus55: poke bzoltan1
[17:06] <dmj_nova> For instance I'd rather use open office on a smartphone for 5 minutes than email a person telling them to convert the file to PDF and send it back to me, then wait while they do that, then open it, compose an email saying to make specific changes on pages 4 and 7 and then send it back to me.
[17:06] <omac777> The only request I'm making is that the arm repo be just one for arm-based desktop, tablet and phone.  The other request is the ubuntu flavor for arm devices ship with a tool to easily flash over the arm devices to completely take over the device.
[17:07] <omac777> Also it would be nice for ubuntu to install grub or other bootloader menu tool on the phone and tablet as they do on the desktop.  That way if we want to boot up android for those rare occasions, we can.
[17:08] <hourd> multirom already exists for android, and can be used to boot the ubuntu for nexus 7
[17:08] <omac777> Dare I say, there will be others dreaming to put windows phone on the bootloader menu on the arm device too, but I'm not one of them.
[17:08] <dmj_nova> omac777: As long as the underlying components are there and usable in phone mode, I'm sure there's a way to hack desktop style apps into the phone
[17:08] <omac777> hourd, is the nexus 7 image already out?
[17:09] <hourd> omac777: its not ubuntu phone its just ubuntu desktop
[17:09] <omac777> JUST ubuntu desktop.  That's all I want!  I just want UBUNTU desktop on the ARM device :)
[17:09] <omac777> Is it 12.10 or some other older flavor?
[17:09] <hourd> 13.04
[17:10] <omac777> Pardon my ignorance, but where can I get it?
[17:10] <hourd> omac777: http://i.imgur.com/eqyUiYv.jpg
[17:11] <hourd> omac777: i used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/
[17:12] <omac777> I don't have a nexus 7 yet, but that's exactly what I would love to see on the Advent Vega.  How hard would it be to see it recompiled for another ARM device?
[17:13] <hourd> no idea, it seems to have alot of specific support for the nexus 7
[17:13] <omac777> hourd:  Did you reinstall android after that?
[17:13] <omac777> Are you happy with the ubuntu on 13.04?
[17:13] <omac777> on the nexus 7?
[17:13] <hourd> didnt need to re-install android, runs alongside using multirom
[17:14] <hourd> i have android 4.2.1 on it as well
[17:14] <omac777> hourd: now that you have ubuntu on the nexus 7, do you prefer to use it over android?
[17:15] <hourd> depends what im doing
[17:15] <hourd> android is much more convenient for calls, web browsing etc... but i have done some development on the ubuntu and its better than android for that
[17:15] <hourd> especialy with an external keyboard
[17:16] <omac777> There you go, that's what I wanted to hear, you need the external keyboard.  No problem with that.  So what you have is an awesome ARM desktop running ubuntu :)
[17:17] <hourd> it has an onboard keyboard which appears when its needed and moves out of your way when moving windows
[17:19] <omac777> hourd:   Do you get file access errors on your arm device when running at the terminal?  It doesn't suffer from the same issues as running android root terminals right?
[17:20] <hourd> not at all
[17:20] <hourd> you have to patch the kernel for loopback to get it to work
[17:23] <omac777> hourd:  Thanks for sharing.
[17:23] <hourd> no problem
[17:24] <hourd> omac777: theres lots of videos on youtube of it working
[17:45] <Corasaaa> Hi
[18:21] <sergey_> Hello! I look https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps and not found media player. why?
[18:29] <mhall119> sergiusens: media player was already started for the CES demo
[18:30] <sergiusens> mhall119: wrong person, but I can confirm that :-)
[18:31] <mhall119> tab-complete fail
[18:41] <krovatti> hi. is anybody here?
[18:42] <Loofy> Yea, I'm here. First time though. :) browsing throught the CoreApps atm.
[18:44] <Loofy> I like this project, but I am currently trying to figure out how to get involved. :)
[18:47] <krovatti> are you ubuntu dev? :)
[18:48] <krovatti> i have some questions but i don't know where i can to get an answer
[18:48] <krovatti> oh. sorry. i'm a blind :D
[18:48] <Loofy> I am certenly not.
[18:48] <krovatti> i watching for it too :)
[18:49] <Loofy> No problems. :)
[18:49] <krovatti> what you want to create, by the way
[18:49] <Loofy> Well not sure atm.
[18:49] <Loofy> Perhaps I would like to start with some simple.
[18:50] <Loofy> A clock, alarm how hard could it be? :P
[18:50] <krovatti> i want to create a clock and alarm :P
[18:51] <krovatti> not hard at all if you know qml
[18:51] <krovatti> :)
[18:51] <Loofy> Ok.
[18:52] <Loofy> Well I don't know anything about the SDK and how to actually develop anything yet. What is needed to start?
[18:52] <krovatti> have you any expirence with qml? :)
[18:53] <krovatti> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ here's how
[18:53] <Loofy> I haven't done anything serious in qml.
[18:53] <Loofy> thnx for that link.
[18:53] <krovatti> in short, you need to install qt creator, qt5 and qml toolkit then you need to change settings in qt creator (optional) and you're ready to start
[18:55] <krovatti> you need to go deeper in this link i gave. there is much useful information (ubuntu api, how to create first app and what's next)
[18:56] <krovatti> anyway, i'm away. good googling and programming :)
[19:00] <Loofy> Yeap... Gonna watch some telly now... But I will keep idling in the channel.
[19:01] <Loofy> afk.
[19:28] <Robbilie> do you think this could be getting close to the unity launcher on ubu phone? : http://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/24/show/ just some work i did :D
[19:30] <Rougeth> Nice Robbilie, what did you use to do it?
[19:30] <Robbilie> hum? this is pure html and css and just a little js :D
[19:31] <Rougeth> But what lib?
[19:31] <Robbilie> nooooone :D
[19:33] <Robbilie> i really enjoy having the smallest websites possible and therefore i cant afford jquery or such :D and selectors and such are possible with 2 lines of code so why use a lib? i want to extend the launcher a bit, might add better paging and maybe its gonna be a b2g launcher with the look of unity :D
[19:51] <CPCookieMan> Hello there
[19:52] <Robbilie> heyho
[19:53] <CPCookieMan> What's going on guys?
[20:05] <hourd> not alot
[20:14] <krovatti> 95 users and now one ubuntu dev, wtf?
[20:17] <krovatti> :(
[20:54] <Loofy> Hi (again)
[20:54] <Loofy> I have followed the currency converter tutorial now, to get the hang of qml stuff.
[20:54] <krovatti> hi, nice to see you
[20:54] <Loofy> pretty straight forward - but I need to dig into the reference to learn about all the properties available.
[20:55] <krovatti> let's go deeper
[20:55] <krovatti> ;)
[20:55] <Loofy> :)
[20:55] <hourd> what if you can't get back out?
[20:55] <Loofy> hehe
[20:56] <krovatti> hourd, what you mean?
[20:56] <hourd> inception
[20:59] <hourd> krovatti: it's a film
[21:00] <krovatti> hourd: thanks, i know :D
[21:00] <krovatti> )
[21:00] <hourd> hehe
[21:01] <Loofy> Hmm, browsing around on the coreapps of UbuntuPhone... Well. It is a "Phone", but none of the listed is aimed to get the piece to call somebody ?
[21:02] <Loofy> To me that would also count in as one of the core functions of a Phone. :)
[21:03] <krovatti> Loofy: i think there's non public app because GSM technology is private thing for a big company
[21:03] <krovatti> *companies
[21:03] <krovatti> that's the reason
[21:03] <Loofy> yeap probably there is.
[21:04] <Loofy> But I was thinking contacts etc...
[21:05] <krovatti> So, I think it'll be soon, maybe :)
[21:05] <Loofy> yeap
[21:33] <vsrmis> Hello all. I am student,novice developer. I am loving Linux, and I look forward to Ubuntu on mobile devices. I want to help this project, how can I do it? Could you explain me system of developing products fot Ubuntu for Phones? What tasks can I perform?
[21:33] <vsrmis> I Can write on Python,C++,Java. I am using Qt and love it to.
[21:34] <popey> vsrmis: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
[21:40] <arazbakov> hi all
[21:40] <arazbakov> hi
[21:40] <arazbakov> who is here?
[21:40] <Loofy> I am :D
[21:41] <arazbakov> do u know smb who develops ubuntu phone?
[21:42] <Loofy> Well I am trying to learning it my self.
[21:42] <popey> smb?
[21:42] <arazbakov> smb = somebody
[21:42] <Loofy> I arrived to this channel for the first time today.
[21:42] <arazbakov> so am I
[21:42] <Loofy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
[21:43] <arazbakov> what is the lang for programming?
[21:43] <Loofy> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[21:43] <Loofy> those two are good starters.
[21:43] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone#Ubuntu_Phone_FAQ
[21:44] <arazbakov> is it true that os is too slow?
[21:44] <popey> too slow for what?
[21:45] <arazbakov> for sliding screens for example
[21:45] <popey> nope
[21:46] <popey> its under active development anyway, so any stuttering or slowness seen in any videos from a couple of weeks back are likely to be gone now
[21:47] <arazbakov> how dev proccess is managed?
[21:47] <popey> at the moment it's developed internally at Canonical
[21:47] <popey> soon the source (and binary images) will be made available
[21:50] <arazbakov> thx
[21:55] <krovatti> popey: are you a dev at Ubuntu?
[21:55] <popey> krovatti: I work at Canonical with a bunch of clever people, yes.
[21:56] <lars__> how are you$
[21:56] <lars__> wtf
[21:56] <wfire> I know this is all Ubuntu, but do you know if the qt-components will be available for windows at any point in time
[21:56] <popey> lars__: I think I speak for us all when I say "Fine thanks"
[21:56] <wfire> I agree, I am fine
[21:57] <krovatti> popey: arrrrrgh, at Canonical of course. I have some questions about development
[21:57] <krovatti> wfire: looking there's no chance for it
[21:57] <wfire> ok
[21:57] <wfire> I will have to run ubuntu in a virtual then I guess
[21:58] <wfire> I love QML and was so excited to learn today that the Ubuntu phone is using it
[21:58] <wfire> back to QtCreator
[21:58] <wfire> loving it
[21:59] <krovatti> popey: for example, I have am experience with Qt/qml and I want to help Canonical to develop, Alarm Clock, for example. Where I need to send the result, when... There's no helpful information I found at gomobile section :(
[21:59] <popey> krovatti: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
[21:59] <krovatti> wfire: why not setup Ubuntu in original way?
[21:59] <popey> mhall119 can help you
[22:00] <wfire> I am not comfortable with ubuntu for it to be my main
[22:00] <wfire> not a fan of dual either
[22:00] <wfire> but QML is a passion for me
[22:00] <wfire> krovatti, here is how to get published
[22:00] <wfire> http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
[22:02] <krovatti> wfire: there's a way to use it as a second system as i did
[22:02] <wfire> hmm I will look into it
[22:02] <wfire> well I have to step away for a bit
[22:02] <wfire> is it ok to idle here?
[22:03] <popey> sure
[22:03] <wfire> ok cool
[22:06] <krovatti1> popey: yes, i saw it. i mean i didn't found really helpful info. for e.g. as i said, how i can interact with other developers and what if some developers (not one) wants to develop an app. There's many questions confusing me
[22:09] <krovatti1> wfire: what are you develop? btw, i like qml too because it's too easy and too powerful
[22:09] <popey> krovatti1: this is the best place to come, but it's quite early on in the project, so we may not have all the answers you need, but can try to find them
[22:09] <Loofy> krovatti1, I think the collaboration will be going on using Launchpad and bazaar?
[22:11] <mhall119> popey: what can I help with?
[22:12] <krovatti1> Loofy: hmm, that's interesting but i haven't experience with Launchpad. what is it?
[22:12] <Loofy> I guess at this stage everything isn't set up yet.. for instance: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clock-dev
[22:12] <mhall119> boiler-plate code should be available for each of the projects tomorrow or monday
[22:12] <Loofy> krovatti1, Launchpad is like a "bugzilla" for ubuntu project.
[22:13] <mhall119> more than bugzilla
[22:13] <Loofy> ofcourse
[22:13] <Loofy> but just as a "starter" hehe
[22:13] <mhall119> it's like bugzilla + github + (there's no real equivilent to PPAs)
[22:13] <krovatti1> bazaar looks like svn at a glance
[22:13] <mhall119> bzr is more like git and mercurial
[22:14] <krovatti1> that's good i like git
[22:14] <Loofy> And as you can see. in the project for the clock - there are no members assigned to that project yet.
[22:15] <mhall119> Loofy: not yet, the teams are still being set up
[22:15] <Loofy> oki
[22:15] <Loofy> yes so I assumed.
[22:15] <mhall119> we kicked off the call for designs because it didn't need to be blocked on boiler plate code or development teams
[22:15] <krovatti1> Loofy: can everyone connect to this project, for e.g? or what?
[22:16] <mhall119> so we can start getting design ideas while we finish getting the rest together
[22:16] <Loofy> Well I am not that knowledgeable yet. I am quite novice my self.
[22:16] <mhall119> once there is code, anybody will be able to branch it, and submit patches
[22:16] <mhall119> members of the dev team will be responsible for reviewing merge proposals and getting them into trunk
[22:18] <krovatti1> popey: i think you're absolutely right. I've just seen a topic which says that Canonical watching for volunteers in our Russian community called Habrahabr and I was thinking that is too late to help, honestly. that's the reason why i'm here killing you with my silly questions :)
[22:18] <Loofy> Did we mension earlier that Launchpad also could be used for Localizations?
[22:18] <Loofy> Will that part be the same for phoneapps?
[22:19] <krovatti1> mhall119: and what we need to join the team?
[22:21] <krovatti1> mhall119: one more question. are you planning to create a good guidelines (for code quality for the collaboration) and design guidelines (for UX) in the future?
[22:23] <krovatti1> Loofy: are you good at design? )
[22:23] <Loofy> Nope..
[22:23] <Loofy> that isn't my skillset.
[22:24] <Loofy> i like to do the codebehinds hehe.
[22:24] <krovatti1> me too
[22:24] <krovatti1> so i've got an idea about design but i'm not good at design at all :(
[22:25] <Loofy> I think it is good to have the mockup stuff that are available... That way people can gather their suggestions and make the best fit.
[22:26] <Loofy> for instance this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/FileManager
[22:27] <Loofy> at the bottom people has sent in some suggestions.
[22:28] <mhall119> krovatti1: you don't need to join the team to contribute, no
[22:28] <mhall119> Loofy: Launchpad will be used for translations, yes
[22:28] <Loofy> Oki great.
[22:28] <krovatti1> that's good
[22:32] <Loofy> I wonder what is the most suitable datastorage for an alarm clock? Would it be a simple xml file maybe? or is there other recommended ways for this built in?
[22:34] <krovatti1> mhall119: so, what about controversial situations. Will one language translations controlled by the authority in Ubuntu community?
[22:34] <krovatti1> Loofy: what about json?
[22:34] <krovatti1> that is more likely I think
[22:35] <Loofy> Yes that to... I was thinkning if there was something more database-like that was maybe a recommended way?
[22:35] <krovatti1> i think not
[22:36] <Loofy> I think in Ubuntu there is something called couchdb
[22:36] <krovatti1> maybe
[22:37] <Loofy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CouchDB
[22:37] <popey> U1DB
[22:37] <Loofy> ahh
[22:37] <Loofy> thanks
[22:38] <Loofy> and it is part of Ubuntu One...
[22:39] <Loofy> that was one of my ideas.. what if we could find a way that you could optionally synchronize alarms across one-connected devices.
[22:39] <krovatti1> Loofy: "U1DB is a database API for synchronised databases of JSON documents", so i was right :)
[22:39] <Loofy> Yeap
[22:40] <krovatti1> Loofy: i'll setup this alarm clock at my laptop, hah :D )
[22:41] <Peiber> Hi guys, I'm new to IRC and pretty new to coding, I really want to get involved in this project, how can I help?
[22:41] <Loofy> Haha
[22:41] <krovatti1> Peiber: are you good at design?
[22:42] <Loofy> Haha
[22:42] <krovatti1> Loofy: all's good? )
[22:42] <Peiber> Like graphically?  I'm not very artistic
[22:43] <Peiber> Unfortunately as i said I'm fairly new to coding and i have learned a bit of java but anything i can do to help would be great
[22:43] <krovatti1> Peiber: so, if you want to code smth look for it - http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[22:43] <Loofy> Yeap I think all help will be needed.
[22:43] <krovatti1> Peiber: that's to easy to start with qml
[22:44] <Peiber> what coding language do i need to learn?
[22:44] <krovatti1> qml
[22:45] <Loofy> U1DB seams to have a SQLite back end database.
[22:45] <Loofy> http://packages.python.org/u1db/high-level-api.html#high-level-api
[22:45] <krovatti1> Peiber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML
[22:45] <krovatti1> Loofy: yes i saw this page
[22:45] <Peiber> thanks, I'll get started
[22:46] <krovatti1> sorry, looks like i'm scared him
[22:46] <Loofy> hehe
[22:46] <krovatti1> :D
[22:46] <Loofy> or he went in to focus-mode.
[22:46] <krovatti1> maybe
[22:47] <Rasmus_> Jumping in as you talk about database backends. I think that sqlite should at least be avalible for apps to use.
[22:48] <Loofy> Oki
[22:49] <krovatti1> Rasmus_: i think there's will be a way to use it from qml with c++ extension as well as many libraries we're using nowadays
[22:49] <Rasmus_> ok
[22:50] <Rasmus_> I don't know what librarys that will be shiped, just reacted becouse you only mentioned CouchDB
[22:50] <Rasmus_> Sqllite is very popular and a lot of people is familar with it.
[22:54] <krovatti1> mhall119: popey: can will i offer a new application: that's application was written for nokia n9 and wasn't published in ovi store yet, and i can port it very fast because there's just small difference in qml
[22:55] <Loofy> Well time to sleep for me...
[22:55] <Loofy> afk
[22:55] <krovatti1> so, can everyone offer app or game to ubuntu phone community in other words to be in phone out of the box
[22:55] <krovatti1> yes, i think there's a good time
[22:55] <krovatti1> good night
[22:57] <krovatti1> mhall119: Popey: if you have an answer, please write me - michaeldavydenko[at]outlook[point]com


[16:38] <swift110-phone_> Hey
[18:38] <harsh_jain[m]2> how i can upgrade to 17.10 if the release file is missing from the server,
[21:28] <ChinnoDog> harsh_jain[m]2: Where did the release file go?
[21:30] <ChinnoDog> eh, maybe that doesn't matter. You can reinstall the package that provides it.
[21:31] <ChinnoDog> I think 'apt-get --reinstall install base-files' will do it
[21:31] <ChinnoDog> harsh_jain[m]2:
[21:48] <ChinnoDog> Our channel topic says that the next meeting was 5 years ago.


[02:49] <nhaines> Meeting in 10 minutes!
[03:00] <nhaines> Alrighty, meeting time!
[03:01] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[03:01] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Jan 15 03:01:01 2018 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[03:01] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[03:01] <nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting for January 14th, 2018.  Happy new year, everyone!  :D
[03:01] <nhaines> Today's agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18January14
[03:01] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18January14 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[03:02] <nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
[03:02] <nhaines> Within the next day, the Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will begin!
[03:03] <nhaines> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase
[03:03] <darthrobot> Title: [UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase - Ubuntu Wiki]
[03:03] <nhaines> This contest is where we'll get submissions for alternate wallpapers and example music and video files for the next Ubuntu release.
[03:04] <nhaines> We include new wallpapers every cycle, but because it's an LTS release, it's time to refresh the example video and music file as well!
[03:04] <nhaines> Photos will go on Flickr and we'll use the Ubuntu Community Hub for music and video this time around.
[03:05] <nhaines> More details will be available at the wiki page and at https://community.ubuntu.com/c/desktop later, plus an email and blog post will go out.  You'll see it come across the Ubuntu California mailing list.
[03:05] <darthrobot> Title: [Desktop - Ubuntu Community Hub]
[03:05] <nhaines> The contest will last until March 15th, so that's plenty of time for artistry.  :D
[03:07] <nhaines> In other news, SCALE 16x is fast approaching, and will take place from March 8th through 11th.  We're hosting UbuCon at SCALE as well as an Ubuntu booth.  The call for volunteers will start very soon (also watch the mailing list) but it's time to start thinking about your schedules!
[03:07] <nhaines> SCALE is a great way to get experience running a booth, even if you haven't done so before.  This is Ubuntu and Ubuntu California's 11th year at SCALE, so we'll teach you everything you need to know.
[03:08] <nhaines> And if you have an Ubuntu-related talk for UbuCon, we might still have a slot or two open for our Thursday and Friday schedule.
[03:08] <nhaines> #topic Announcements
[03:09] <nhaines> The first security updates for the Spectre and Meltdown CPU vulnerabilities landed last week, and more will land Tuesday.  This is a serious vulnerability affecting all Intel processors from the past 15 years, several AMD processors, and some graphics cards.
[03:09] <nhaines> So it's very important to install any available security updates from the Ubuntu repositories and reboot the system.
[03:10] <nhaines> More information is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown
[03:10] <darthrobot> Title: [SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown - Ubuntu Wiki]
[03:10] <nhaines> Now's the time to keep an eye on security updates, because the vulnerabilities are extremely complex, so updates are being handled bit by bit.
[03:10] <nhaines> #topic Agenda
[03:11] <nhaines> Every two years, Local Community teams go through a re-verification process to make sure they're still active and healthy.  Due to the change in leadership timeframes last year, we're overdue, and the time is now.
[03:11] <Geom> Sorry I was a little late.
[03:11] <nhaines> Geom: glad you could make it.  :)
[03:12] <nhaines> Reverification is pretty simple, and pleia2 and I will be working on it over the next couple of weeks.
[03:12] <nhaines> The process is documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines
[03:12] <darthrobot> Title: [LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines - Ubuntu Wiki]
[03:13] <nhaines> That's pretty much everything going on for the next couple of months so far.  Ubuntu 18.04 LTS should be a very nice polish of Ubuntu 17.10, so there should be a lot of excitement at our booth during SCALE.
[03:13] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[03:13] <pleia2> oh, hello! yes I'll start working on that soon
[03:13] <nhaines> pleia2: yay! \o/
[03:14] <nhaines> Is there any other business before we wrap the meeting up?
[03:14] <Geom> Can you get me updated on SCaLE?  I guess I missed it already  :-(
[03:15] <pleia2> ah yes, that was right before you joined
[03:15] <nhaines> Geom: I'll go over it after the meeting and there'll be logs.  :)
[03:15] <Geom> OK
[03:16] <nhaines> Alrighty, I think that just about wraps it up.
[03:16] <nhaines> We have a couple busy months ahead, and I hope that we can keep some of that momentum going throughout the year.  :)
[03:16] <pleia2> thanks nhaines
[03:17] <nhaines> I'll see everyone here again in two weeks; our next meeting is January 28th!
[03:17] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[03:17] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Jan 15 03:17:10 2018 UTC.
[03:17] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2018/ubuntu-us-ca.2018-01-15-03.01.moin.txt
[03:17] <nhaines> In other news, SCALE 16x is fast approaching, and will take place from March 8th through 11th.  We're hosting UbuCon at SCALE as well as an Ubuntu booth.  The call for volunteers will start very soon (also watch the mailing list) but it's time to start thinking about your schedules!
[03:17] <nhaines> SCALE is a great way to get experience running a booth, even if you haven't done so before.  This is Ubuntu and Ubuntu California's 11th year at SCALE, so we'll teach you everything you need to know.
[03:18] <nhaines> And if you have an Ubuntu-related talk for UbuCon, we might still have a slot or two open for our Thursday and Friday schedule.
[03:18] <nhaines> Geom: relevant SCALE information from the meeting: ^^
[03:18] <pleia2> nhaines: I'll get you the abstract and start work on reverification wiki tomorrow, this weekend is going by much too quickly ;)
[03:18] <pleia2> "3 day weekend, I have PLENTY of time! er..."
[03:19] <nhaines> pleia2: are you me?  :)
[03:19] <pleia2> hehe
[03:20] <pleia2> in my defense, I just bought a house and am flying to Sydney for linux.conf.au on Wednesday, so I've got a lot on my plate ;)
[03:22] <DonkeyHotei> you bought a house in australia?
[03:22] <Geom> Thank you for that, brief.
[03:23] <Geom> Any schedule yet?
[03:24] <nhaines> Same schedule as always, 2pm to 6pm Friday, 10 to 6 Saturday, 10 to 2 Sunday.
[03:24] <pleia2> DonkeyHotei: hah, no :)
[03:24] <pleia2> in Castro Valley, right near the BART station
[03:24] <nhaines> The big question mark is whether or not I'll be around on Friday or not.  But we won't know that until a couple weeks away, so there will be contingency plans.  :)
[03:25] <nhaines> pleia2: does it have a Bat-pole down to the terminal in the basement?
[03:26] <Geom> OK, but what about who is doing what, etc.  Tables, chairs, banners, ......
[03:26] <pleia2> nhaines: basement? it's california ;)
[03:26] <nhaines> pleia2: yeah, but the basement can be the BART station.  ;)
[03:26] <pleia2> hehe
[03:27] <pleia2> nah, but it is just a couple blocks away
[03:27] <Geom> The new house has a basement?
[03:27] <nhaines> Geom: That'll go up this week.
[03:27] <Geom> nhaines:  Ok
[03:27] <pleia2> Geom: no, but it is a very unusual house, it used to be one story, the previous owner wanted more space, so he jacked it up and added a first floor
[03:28] <Geom> pleia2:  Wow, I saw the facebook about the new house, but that is unusual to jack the house UP to add a floor below!
[03:28] <pleia2> indeed!
[03:29] <Geom> pleia2:  why?
[03:29] <Geom> reason?
[03:29] <pleia2> the first floor couldn't handle one on top, so it was full demo or raise it up
[03:30] <Geom> pleia2:  Wow, I am trying to get my head around how that would be done...
[03:30] <pleia2> I would love to stumble upon photos of it being done, but so far all I have is the paperwork (which is extensive)
[03:30] <nhaines> They completely rebuilt the basement and foundation at the Griffith Observatory a couple years ago.
[03:31] <pleia2> nhaines: and there ARE pictuers of tha!
[03:31] <pleia2> t
[03:31] <pleia2> videos too, time lapse :)
[03:32] <pleia2> Geom: so it made the whole place a little weird, since the second floor pretty much kept the original layout and it's a full house itself, just added a 3.5 car garage, huge living room, den and full bath downstairs
[03:32] <pleia2> 2900 sq feet, the place is huge
[03:33] <Geom> pleia2:  Wow, what are you going to do with it?
[03:33] <pleia2> Geom: the plan is to create more humans to fill it up ;)
[03:33] <pleia2> but in the meantime, I'll finally have an enclosed office where I can put all my books and toys (oh, and work)
[03:34] <Geom> pleia2:  I see.  Well I will pray for the two of you then.
[03:34] <pleia2> thanks, we'll need it ;)
[03:35] <Geom> pleia2:  I was sorry I never got to talk to him at the last SCaLE.
[03:35] <pleia2> I don't think he's coming down this year :\
[03:35] <Geom> pleia2:  I am sure he is busy.
[03:36] <pleia2> yeah
[03:37] <Geom> nhaines:  Changing subject... I thought Griffith was plagued by light pollution, especially for the milkey way galex.
[03:38] <nhaines> Hmm, technically, anything nearby is in the Milky Way.  :)  So I guess the brighter stuff is still okay.
[03:39] <nhaines> But yeah, it's bad now.  But when it was built, it wasn't.
[03:39] <nhaines> I don't know what they observe there now, but it's a fantastic planetarium.
[03:39] <Geom> Yes, I know.  We used to go out to the desert to see the stars.
[03:40] <Geom> Yes, it is a fantastic planetarium
[03:40] <nhaines> I forget now if it was there or Palomar that they discovered that other galaxies were actually galaxies and not just nebulae.
[03:41] <nhaines> I went out to Afton Canyon Campground, about 30 miles past Barstow on the 15.  Halfway between here and Vegas, just enough to have the least amount of light pollution around.
[03:41] <nhaines> When I got up after the moon at set, I walked around and got to see my shadow on the ground that was cast by the Milky Way.
[03:41] <Geom> That is good.
[03:43] <Geom> nhaines:  Haven't talked to you in awhile.    I've been thinking about you lately.  :)
[03:43] <nhaines> You can call me any time.
[03:43] <Geom> nhaines:  same here.
[03:44] <Geom> I'll call in a couple minutes.
[03:44] <Geom> pleia2:  Hope to catch up with you.  Love your posts on facebook.
[03:45] <pleia2> o/
[03:47] <Geom> pleia2:  At least I know what to pray for both of you.  Still grateful for you hosting be at that security conference.


[09:23] <q2dg> Hello friends!
[09:25] <q2dg> Bye!
[09:43] <studio-user889> JOIN
[13:37] <casper_> Can anyone help with AUdio I/o in Pd from JACK?
[14:39] <studio-user445> hi
[14:40] <cfhowlett> greetings s
[20:08] <casper_> hello is anyone there at hte moment?
[20:11] <casper_> I keep getting audio error i/o with Pd and JACK. Does anyone know what might be causing this error?


[02:21] <Girish> Hi! I'm participating in Google Code In and I've taken the task of fixing the contrast between tabs in Terminal. #ubuntu-google pointed me here and adviced to contact someone willcooke. So can anyone give me a head start on this?


[02:25] <Gerry__> evening
[02:41] <az7> hey hey
[02:43] <kwadroke> hey
[02:44] <kwadroke> I think we're a day early :)
[02:44] <kwadroke> not to say we can't do anything tonight


[12:01] <md_> hello! one question, ¿why I get "W: Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not found" when I do "do-release-upgrade" if us.archive.ubuntu.com don't appear in sources.list? thanks!