[01:35] <racarr> qengho: Hi I have some time but not that much focus left on this friday :)
[01:35] <racarr> that is correct, wrt to ozone-wayland...though...there is more code duplicated than there used to be already because of
[01:35] <racarr> uh...philosophical differences or whatever :p
[01:53] <qengho> racarr: I'm trying to figure out the compile flags. ozone_platform_wayland=0  leaves symbols undefined, and yet defining it seems to try to initialize two different schemes at run time.
[03:10] <racarr> qengho: You mean use_ozone_platform_wayland?
[03:11] <racarr> The last time I built was with use_ozone_platform_wayland=0...which symbols are undefined?
[03:12] <racarr> have yuo also applied the patches in the patches folder in ozone mir?
[03:12] <racarr> qengho: Anyway I need to go eat, but please mail me the symbol failure and I will try and help
[18:18] <qengho> racarr: I put the tiny script I wrote on chinstrap:~cmiller/chromium-mir-apply-patch . It extracts code from your branch, "cp" and "patch", and produces a distro patch. There's some preamble on running that should help explain what and why.


[13:29] <ricotz> hello, is it still possible to create new bazaar branches on launchpad?
[13:29] <ricotz> I am getting "brz: ERROR: '*' is not a valid Git repository path."
[13:30] <jugmac00> ricotz: It should be possible, yes. There are still quite some people using bazaar. Could you please create a bug report?
[13:34] <ricotz> jugmac00, ok, not sure if I done something wrong
[14:00] <ricotz> jugmac00, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/703983


[06:31] <fwereade_> davecheney, are you seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/1266985/ ?
[06:32] <davecheney> nope, but i haven't updated recently
[06:34] <rogpeppe> davecheney, fwereade_: mornin'
[06:36] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, heyhey
[06:38] <davecheney> ... obtained map[string]interface {} = map[string]interface {}{"title":"My Title", "username":"admin001", "skill-level":9000}
[06:38] <davecheney> ... expected map[string]interface {} = map[string]interface {}{"title":"My Title", "username":"admin001", "skill-level":9000}
[06:38] <davecheney> o_0!
[06:39] <fwereade_> davecheney, huh
[07:10] <TheMue> morning
[07:10] <davecheney> morning
[07:16] <fwereade_> TheMue, heyhey
[07:16] <TheMue> davecheney and fwereade_: hi
[07:26] <Aram> morning.
[07:27] <fwereade_> Aram, heyhey
[07:35] <TheMue> hi amithkk
[07:35] <TheMue> oops
[07:35] <TheMue> hi Aram
[09:41] <wrtp> fwereade_:  i was thinking about your Context interface, and wondering if the MapChanger type was necessary. i was thinking something like this might work a tad more neatly: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267165/
[09:46] <wrtp> fwereade_: probably this is just bikeshedding tho'
[09:47] <fwereade_> wrtp, I think I'd prefer to keep being able to just return a ConfigNode there
[10:08] <fwereade_> wrtp, Context.RelationId(); Context.RemoteUnitName()
[10:09] <fwereade_> wrtp, niemeyer has suggested adding error returns
[10:09] <fwereade_> wrtp, ISTM that, in practice, what this does is bloat the crap out of all the code that uses it
[10:10] <wrtp> fwereade_: i was trying to see the interface from the context of a user of it. ISTM that it would be nice if it mapped fairly closely to the interface provided to the hooks. but i see yr point about just returning ConfigNode
[10:10] <fwereade_> wrtp, can you offer a perspective from which this change is a good thing?
[10:11] <wrtp> fwereade_: as a consumer of the interface, it's not really clear why the MapChanger type is there.
[10:11] <fwereade_> wrtp, feels to me like it just means more code, with error paths that can't happen
[10:12] <wrtp> fwereade_: oh, sorry, you mean adding error returns?
[10:12] <fwereade_> wrtp, yeah
[10:12] <wrtp> fwereade_: error returns from what?
[10:12] <fwereade_>  wrtp, Context.RelationId(); Context.RemoteUnitName()
[10:13] <wrtp> fwereade_: so niemeyer would like you to return an error rather than relation-id == -1?
[10:13] <fwereade_> wrtp, yeah
[10:14] <wrtp> fwereade_: i'm with you tbh. there's only one kind of error that can happen, and it's not really an error.
[10:14] <fwereade_> wrtp, and I was ok with this, it seemed reasonable, until it came to actually switching the commands over to use the interface
[10:14] <wrtp> fwereade_: returning an error makes it look like all kinds of bad things could happen
[10:14] <fwereade_> wrtp, yeah exactly
[10:15] <wrtp> fwereade_: there is another possibility, i suppose
[10:15] <fwereade_> wrtp, trying to *use* that interface has put me in a totally foul mood
[10:15] <wrtp> fwereade_: which is to have an IsRelationContext (or something) method, and make Context.RelationId panic if called when IsRelationContext is false.
[10:16] <wrtp> fwereade_: that way you make the precondition clear, and there's no way you can inadvertently get it wrong.
[10:16] <fwereade_> wrtp, tbh I would like to take it further, and use HasRelation to guard Relation
[10:17] <fwereade_> wrtp, hell, HasRemoteUnit for RemoteUnitName
[10:17] <fwereade_> wrtp, that might lead to code that doesn't make me want to slit my eyes
[10:17] <fwereade_> wrtp, might actually even be more readable
[10:18] <wrtp> fwereade_: that sounds reasonable to me
[10:19] <wrtp> fwereade_: i don't know that it'll make niemeyer happy though. you can still run RelationId and forget it might be invalid. you'll just get a panic if you do that.
[10:19]  * fwereade_ goes off for a ciggie and a grumble to himself while he tries to figure out whether it's even worth bothering to change anything until niemeyer comes online
[10:22] <fwereade_> actually, going to get some food, bbiab
[10:24] <wrtp> fwereade_: one other possibility: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267207/
[12:00] <fwereade_> morning niemeyer
[12:01] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'm finding the error returns from RelationId and RemoteUnitName to be extremely unwieldy... I think the biggest problem is that the errors imply that more could go wrong than just ErrNoRelation etc
[12:03] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'm wondering how you'd feel about pairs like HasRemoteUnit() bool and RemoteUnitName() string, and a requirement that clients look before they leap?
[12:14] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Good morning
[12:14] <niemeyer> Morning all
[12:14] <fwereade_> niemeyer, heyhey
[12:14] <niemeyer> fwereade_: It wouldn't really help much in the sense I was considering
[12:15] <niemeyer> fwereade_: The point was really to prevent using context.RelationId() as if the relation existed, when in fact it doesn't
[12:15] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We have the same logic in state itself, for example
[12:15] <niemeyer> fwereade_: E.g. unit.InstanceId()
[12:17] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I just don't see how it's anything but obfuscatory to have to go through identical error checking on RelationId and Relation
[12:18] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Do you have the paste at hand?
[12:18] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Actually, it was already a review wasn't it
[12:18]  * niemeyer looks
[12:18] <fwereade_> niemeyer, yeah
[12:24] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Alternatively, what about having RemoteRelation (analogous to RemoteUnitName) that returns (ContextRelation, error), possibly returning ErrNoRemote, and moving Id to within ContextRelation
[12:27] <fwereade_> niemeyer, not sure about the name; where does Remote come in? and actually I don't think we even need the ID once we've got the relation...
[12:27] <niemeyer> fwereade_: The name doesn't sound great indeed
[12:28] <fwereade_> niemeyer, quick access to the current relation would be a good thing though
[12:29] <fwereade_> niemeyer, but still, RemoteUnitName... in that case I really don't think we want any sorts of errors: I really don't see that checking for 2 different possible error kinds (one of which can't happen, but the interface says it might) is any better than `if ctx.RemoteUnitName != ""`
[12:30] <fwereade_> niemeyer, sorry, `if ctx.RemoteUnitName() != ""`
[12:30] <fwereade_> niemeyer, does the switch from struct to interface really mandate that we codify every zero value as a specific error?
[12:30] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Which error is it saying it can't happen but the interface says it might?
[12:31] <fwereade_> niemeyer, any error other than ErrNoRemote
[12:31] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Sorry, I think I'm still a bit slow today
[12:31] <fwereade_> niemeyer, if I want to get a remote unit name, I now have to worry about 3 code paths
[12:31] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Even if there's a single error, that's still a reason to report it.. (?)
[12:31] <fwereade_> niemeyer, doesn't exist; does exist; something else went wrong
[12:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, the something else is not possible
[12:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: What something else?
[12:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Sorry
[12:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, anything
[12:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Erm.. great
[12:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Foo
[12:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, unless we're saying that RemoteUnitName can *only* return ErrNoRemote?
[12:33] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'm completely out of context
[12:33] <niemeyer> fwereade_: RemoteUnitName may be called when there's no remote unit name.. there are two ways to go about this: 1) We panic; 2) We error
[12:33] <niemeyer> fwereade_: There's no in-between
[12:36] <niemeyer> fwereade_: If you want to panic, and use IsRelationHook or similar, that sounds fine too
[12:36] <fwereade_> niemeyer, wooo!
[12:36] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cool, i thought I'd suggested that clearly at the beginning :0
[12:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I don't recall a panic suggestion, but perhaps I just missed it
[12:37] <fwereade_> niemeyer, "require that clients look before they leap"
[12:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Cool, sorry, I didn't think that was it
[12:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: +1 either way
[12:37] <fwereade_> niemeyer, that was I admit a sl obscure way to put it :)
[12:38] <fwereade_> niemeyer, ok, I'll try those
[12:38] <fwereade_> niemeyer, thanks
[12:40] <niemeyer> fwereade_: np, and sorry for being slow to understand
[12:40] <fwereade_> niemeyer, no worries :) am just pondering names... ActiveRelation? CurrentRelation?
[12:41] <niemeyer> fwereade_: HookRelation?
[12:42] <fwereade_> niemeyer, +1, thanks
[13:21] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I find the interface slightly non-conventional, in that rather than doing "if err != nil", we'll be doing the same thing with HasFoo in several places
[13:21] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We can go ahead and see, though, if you're happy with this
[13:22] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'm not sure I have the best solution, but the error-juggling was getting painful... it will probably evolve a touch if we run with it for a bit and listen to what it's saying :)
[13:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Sure.. error handling is painful, but part of the deal
[13:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: In some cases, it looks like it went too far
[13:23] <niemeyer> fwereade_: E.g. Relation(id int) needs an error return, I think
[13:24] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, I'm not usually bothered by error handling :)
[13:24] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Otherwise you'll simply be doing if HasRelation(id); Relation(id) all the time
[13:24] <rogpeppe> huh, maybe i wasn't attached
[13:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: did you see my alternative suggestion above?
[13:25] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I did... wasn't quite sure what you were suggesting, because it seemed to drop a lot of important bits from the interface
[13:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: oh, i hadn't intended to drop anything.
[13:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i omitted ContextRelation because it was the same as before
[13:26] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, not really... I'll be making use of *knowing* that a given relation exists, I think
[13:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_: How do you know it?
[13:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_: The only way is calling HasRelation, I believe
[13:27] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, at the moment I know it because in all the commands that need relations Init will fail if the relation isn't valid
[13:28] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'm not sure it's really worth checking that the relation is valid *every* time we're about to use it
[13:28] <fwereade_> niemeyer, against the same, frozen, context...
[13:28] <niemeyer> fwereade_: That's exactly the danger
[13:28] <niemeyer> fwereade_: You don't want to check that it is valid, but you have to anyway, or you have to memorize the code paths
[13:28] <niemeyer> fwereade_: so that it doesn't blow up
[13:29] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Writing down err != nil is cheap.. memorizing code paths is not
[13:29] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Either way, LGTM.. I'm happy to see the code and bother you later :)
[13:29] <fwereade_> niemeyer, we'll see how much it makes your eyes bleed when I propose then :)
[13:30] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: suggestion in full: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267395/
[13:30] <niemeyer> fwereade_: My eyes won't bleed.. I'll simply laugh the first time we get a panic
[13:30] <fwereade_> niemeyer, heh :)
[13:30] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, yeah: how do I get an arbitrary relation out of that?
[13:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ctxt.RelationContext().Relation(id)
[13:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: one final alternative: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267396/
[13:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: then it would be: ctxt.(RelationContext).Relation(id)
[13:31] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, and in a non-relation hook?
[13:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Are you really suggesting we have both ContextRelation and RelationContext?
[13:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, yeah
[13:32] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i thought it seemed reasonable, in the erm... context.
[13:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, we already do, but I hope it will become nicer :/
[13:32] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We do!?
[13:32] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: they mean quite different things, so i think it's not unreasonable to have those names
[13:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, we have a concrete RelationContext type and your suggested ContextRelation
[13:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I think it's completely crackful
[13:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ContextRelation represents a particular relation; RelationContext represents a particular context.
[13:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: but obviously mileage varies...
[13:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: This is insane, soryr
[13:33] <fwereade_> niemeyer, that's why I liked the idea of a  jujuc.Relation interface -- IMO that is perfectly distinct from state.Relation
[13:34] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i like that too.
[13:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Why do we have both?
[13:34] <fwereade_> niemeyer, bear in mind that RelationContext will almost certyainly not keep that name, though
[13:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Ahhh, okay
[13:34] <fwereade_> niemeyer, well, we have a concrete type we're trying to hide behind an interface
[13:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yes, and that concrete type doesn't live in the same package
[13:34] <fwereade_> niemeyer, not yet
[13:34] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Or won't (thinking end goal)
[13:35] <niemeyer> fwereade_: We can call it Mama for now
[13:35] <fwereade_> niemeyer, haha
[13:35] <niemeyer> fwereade_: :)
[13:35] <niemeyer> fwereade_: What I'm really interested on is where we're headed
[13:36] <niemeyer> fwereade_: The concrete type can have exactly the same name
[13:36] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Under the uniter or whoever will have the concrete implementation
[13:37] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I *think* I know, roughly, but the final shape is contingent on what I do with Relationer/RelationContext... and I don't have the foresight to know exactly how that will look until I'm free to hack them around a bit behind an interface, so I can experiment without spending 99% of my time fixing the build ;p
[13:37] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I thought RelationContext was quite clearly being defined by the ContextRelation interface, which will of course need a concrete implementation
[13:39] <fwereade_> niemeyer, sure, yes; so, you're right, it would make most sense to call it uniter.ContextRelation (unless it ends up in hook, which I think it will)
[13:40] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Yeah, in hook or wherever the concrete implementation ends up being.. it just feels like at least that portion of its role in the problem we're defined now..
[13:40] <niemeyer> defining
[13:40] <fwereade_> niemeyer, but I believe it will come to include some of Relationer's responsibilities, and that the rest of Relationer will migrate into a new type
[13:41] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Understood, that stuff I'm less sure/aware about
[13:41] <fwereade_> niemeyer, in particular, I'm not sure whether that new type is going to be in uniter or hook
[13:42] <fwereade_> niemeyer, (well, *I* am as sure as I can be at this stage that it'll be in hook... but that's too many reviews in the future for that to hold much verifiable water)
[13:42] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Same here. Happy to see that stuff growing organically so we get a feeling of it while we go and don't spend too much time bikesheding on stuff that we can't really get right without further insight.
[13:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: This is ready on the pipeline, btw: https://code.launchpad.net/~rogpeppe/juju-core/105-cloudinit-initial-password/+merge/128222
[13:44] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i realise. unfortunately it doesn't pass live tests, and i'm working on fixing that.
[13:44] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Super, thanks
[13:44] <fwereade_> niemeyer, rogpeppe: btw, I misspoke earlier, I *do* need an Id() on ContextRelation, but that is not a big deal
[13:45] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Agreed, it makes sense anyway
[13:56] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Reviewing the follow up now
[13:57] <niemeyer> fwereade_, rogpeppe, Aram: Btw, for synchronization, I intend to change state so it doesn't create the config nodes on demand, and instead handles them upfront at proper control points
[13:57] <niemeyer> I'll do that after I clean up the reviews
[13:57] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cool, thanks
[13:57] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that seems like a good thing
[13:57] <niemeyer> fwereade_: This is part of multi-config blah, btw
[13:57] <Aram> niemeyer: finally we change that. thank you.
[13:57] <niemeyer> Aram: np
[13:57] <fwereade_> niemeyer, <3
[13:58] <niemeyer> fwereade_: https://codereview.appspot.com/6624062/diff/3001/worker/uniter/jujuc/config-get.go
[13:58] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Are these removals intended?
[13:59] <niemeyer> Hmm
[13:59] <fwereade_> niemeyer, yeah, I moved the logic behind Config() in HookContext, in the interest of implementing the interface "correctly" without duplicating the logic
[13:59] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I am aware it's not actually correct
[13:59] <fwereade_> niemeyer, but it's pre-existing and I'm resisting a lot of tempting rabbit holes in this pipeline
[13:59] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Cool
[14:00] <niemeyer> fwereade_: That's okay.. I just don't want us to mistakingly screw up Dave's efforts of having working charms
[14:00] <fwereade_> niemeyer, trust me, that thought was high up in my mind :)
[14:00] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Thanks
[14:09] <fss> niemeyer: I've sent two new CL's this morning
[14:09] <fss> niemeyer: https://codereview.appspot.com/6621062/ and https://codereview.appspot.com/6618064/
[14:10] <niemeyer> fss: Thanks
[14:10] <fss> niemeyer: after 6621062 get merged, I will start to send iamtest package (it uses RequestIdResp)
[14:12] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Review sent
[14:13] <fwereade_> niemeyer, tyvm
[14:13] <niemeyer> fwereade_: np
[14:15] <fwereade_> niemeyer, the public fields remain because the next step (after switching the commands to use the interface) will be to move the concrete HookContext into uniter... which will break the jujuc tests if they can no longer construct a HookContext neatly
[14:15] <fwereade_> niemeyer, they won't be there for long...
[14:15] <fwereade_> niemeyer, because the followup will be to write the command tests against a local implementation of the interface
[14:16] <niemeyer> fss: First looks nice.. just a couple of trivials
[14:17] <fwereade_> niemeyer, and re stupid doc comments... is it better IYO to leave them blank? or to duplicate the interface comments?
[14:17] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Okay, that's fine then, but let's show the path forward rather than documenting the transition as permanent then
[14:17] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Just leave blank IMO
[14:17] <niemeyer> fwereade_: They're documented in the interface
[14:17] <fwereade_> niemeyer, cool, I was going to do that and then I freaked out at the sight of a whole screen without comments ;p
[14:18] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Regarding _, can we please have a TODO comment inside the type explaining what we're doing, and tweaking the actual type docs so it doens
[14:18] <niemeyer> doesn't feel like the status quo is intended as permanent
[14:19] <fwereade_> niemeyer, absolutely so
[14:19] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Thanks a lot
[14:23] <niemeyer> fss: Second reviewed too.. good stuff as well with a trivial
[14:24] <fss> niemeyer: cool :) I'm addressing your comments right now
[14:32] <fwereade_> niemeyer, rogpeppe: btw, is anyone else seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/1267489/ on trunk? is there something I need to update?
[14:35] <fss> niemeyer: thanks for you reviews
[14:52] <Aram> niemeyer: fwereade_: what do you want the new service relations watcher to return, []int?
[14:53] <niemeyer> Aram: +1
[14:53] <Aram> because we don't have a function that takes an integer relation id and returns a relation ATM.
[14:53] <Aram> ok, so I'll add that function then.
[14:54] <niemeyer> fwereade_: I'm not sure.. I can't see the failure here
[14:56] <niemeyer> I'll step out for an early lunch.. biab for more fun
[15:00] <fwereade_> Aram, sgtm
[15:00] <fwereade_> Aram, I guess you're not seeing the failure I linked above?
[15:00] <Aram> no, I do not.
[15:00] <Aram> everything is fine here.
[15:01] <fwereade_> Aram, cool, thanks
[15:20] <mramm> US Holiday today so I will only be around sporadically
[15:22] <Aram> have fun
[15:22] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: a trivial lbox fix for a panic i just had: https://codereview.appspot.com/6632043/
[15:27] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: PTAL at this - i had to make a few more changes to get all the tests to work correctly. (i changed the dummy provider to check EntityName too to catch the errors i was seeing in the live tests) https://codereview.appspot.com/6612054
[15:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: yes, i see that failure too
[15:44] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ah, phew, I'm not insane :)
[15:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'll have a look at fixing it, one mo
[15:44] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, you rock :)
[15:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i haven't fixed it yet :-)
[15:45] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, FWIW I think the deferred StopInstances just below that block is a bit too low down
[15:45] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, er just above
[15:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: agreed
[15:46] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ping
[15:46] <TheMue> rogpeppe: pong
[15:47] <rogpeppe> TheMue: i see a test failure in trunk that seems to be connected with port handling
[15:47] <rogpeppe> TheMue: do you see the same failure?
[15:47] <TheMue> rogpeppe: for the dummy provider? just submitted the fix
[15:47] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ah, ok, cool
[15:48] <rogpeppe> TheMue: although... i did just pull and i still see the failure, i think
[15:48] <TheMue> rogpeppe: the test for the global firewall mode, which works fine for ec2 local and live, fails, my fault
[15:48] <rogpeppe> TheMue: yeah, i still see the failure.
[15:49] <TheMue> rogpeppe: eh, ok, wrong wording, i made a proposal, not submitted it
[15:49] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ah!
[15:49] <rogpeppe> TheMue: link?
[15:49] <rogpeppe> TheMue: (i don't see many proposal emails sadly)
[15:49] <TheMue> rogpeppe: https://codereview.appspot.com/6635043/
[15:50] <TheMue> rogpeppe: i wanted to extend the firewaller for the global mode and then i discovered the failure
[15:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Looking
[15:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Thanks for the lbox fix
[15:59] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yw
 TheMue: (i don't see many proposal emails sadly)
[15:59] <Aram> I see too many
[16:00] <Aram> like 3 for each proposal or something
[16:00] <Aram> rogpeppe: would you take some of mine?
[16:02] <niemeyer> Aram: Yeah, sorry about that.. haven't yet found a way to have comments in both Launchpad and Rietveld without that overload
[16:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, pong, sorry, my sister just called to inform us that she is now engaged to be married
[16:03] <fwereade_> so, yay :)
[16:07] <rogpeppe> Aram: that used to be true for me too
[16:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: cool
[16:07] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i don't think i pinged you actually
[16:08]  * fwereade_ reads back and observes that he appears to be on crack
[16:10] <rogpeppe> TheMue: you've got a review
[16:17] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: cloudinit done too
[16:17] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: thanks
[16:17] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: np
[16:25] <TheMue> rogpeppe: thx, appreciated it, will add it after dinner.
[16:25] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Did you figure what was up there?
[16:25] <fwereade_> niemeyer, apparently TheMue has proposed a fix
[16:26] <fwereade_> niemeyer, I'm holding off on merging anything for the moment in case it's trickier than it looks and demands a revert or something
[16:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_, TheMue: What was the bug?
[16:26] <niemeyer> fwereade_, TheMue: As far as I recall, the changes to the global port were all optional, and shouldn't have broken tests
[16:27] <TheMue> niemeyer: the dummy provider test includes jujutest, but here the global mode failed because it didn't handle it
[16:28] <TheMue> niemeyer: now the dummy provider supports the global mode too
[16:28] <niemeyer> TheMue: Okay, so I guess we should implement support on it/
[16:29] <niemeyer> TheMue: This CL (https://codereview.appspot.com/6635043/) has changes to the firewaller too, in addition to the dummy provider
[16:29] <niemeyer> TheMue: Can we fix this bug without touching the firewaller?
[16:29] <TheMue> niemeyer: i can split it, yes
[16:29] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sounds quite sensible, thanks
[16:29] <TheMue> niemeyer:  i detected it when extending the firewaller
[16:30] <niemeyer> TheMue: That's the way it always goes.. that's the point to stop a CL and do another one
[16:30] <TheMue> niemeyer: yes, would have been better
[16:31] <niemeyer> TheMue: Then, can we talk about the theory behind the firewaller change?
[16:31] <TheMue> niemeyer: will propose it after dinner, family calls
[16:31] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sounds sensible too, thanks
[16:52] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: You had a review that looked sensible on TheMue's branch.. would be interested in taking the patch on that one file and pushing something you're happier with, so we can fix trunk?
[16:53] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i can do, but i'm mid-flow currently, and i'd prefer not to lose context until i've fixed this test, if that's ok
[16:53] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Absolutely, thanks
[16:59] <niemeyer> fwereade_: Ah, I can reproduce the failures now.. my branch lacked updates
[17:03] <fwereade_> niemeyer, jolly good :)
[17:13] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: smallish CL. https://codereview.appspot.com/6639043
[17:14] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Handling trunk now
[17:14] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (currently verifying that live tests pass)
[17:14] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: are you fixing trunk? that's great thanks. if not, i can move on to it now.
[17:14] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I am
[17:23] <TheMue> niemeyer: you asked what the firewaller CL has to do with the open task. this one nothing, but while thinking about the firewaller i dicovered that i can't simply close a port in global mode because another service may need it. so i added the open port counter.
[17:24] <niemeyer> TheMue: What happens if the firewaller is restarted?
[17:25] <TheMue> niemeyer: have to check it again, but as all ports are re-opened then the counter gets new initialized.
[17:27] <niemeyer> TheMue: All ports are re-opened!?
[17:27] <TheMue> niemeyer: as i said, have to recheck it. but please let me do the dummy CL before
[17:28] <niemeyer> TheMue: I'm already working on it.. doesn't solve the problem by itself
[17:28] <niemeyer> TheMue: We need more careful consideration of how this is going to work before implementing further ode
[17:28] <niemeyer> code
[17:36] <niemeyer> TheMue: Please don't worry about it for now, though.. it's late for you
[17:37] <TheMue> niemeyer: yes, it is, but it's an interesting topic ;)
[17:39] <niemeyer> TheMue: So this may sound interesting: https://codereview.appspot.com/6615063
[17:39] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: In case you want to check as well, given your prior review: https://codereview.appspot.com/6615063
[17:40] <TheMue> niemeyer: *click*
[17:41] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: LGTM
[17:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: unfortunately i seem to have broken trunk too. i must have live tested the wrong branch, dammit.
[17:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: am just testing the (obvious) fix, then will propose
[17:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (it's only the live tests that break)
[17:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Cool, thanks
[17:44] <TheMue> niemeyer: LGTM, like the ports map idea.
[17:52] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: 1 line fix: https://codereview.appspot.com/6635045
[17:53] <fss> niemeyer: can we get those two CLs merged? :-)
[17:53] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Makes sense, LGTM
[17:53] <niemeyer> fss: Yeah, will look at them in a sec
[17:54] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: sorry about that. i must work out some system for juggling my branches and tests better.
[17:54] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: you're holding the lock on juju-core currently
[17:54] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Trying to submit
[17:54] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, cool
[17:54] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that's not quick!
[17:55] <fss> niemeyer: thanks
[17:55] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ... acquired 12 minutes, 12 seconds ago.
[17:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Trust me, I want to submit as much as you do
[17:57] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i was commiserating, not complaining...
[17:57] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i've got to go, but i'll put my submit into a loop until it succeeds
[17:58] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Don't worry, I can submit it once Launchpad works
[17:58] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that would be great, thanks.
[17:58] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: np
[17:59] <rogpeppe> see y'all tomorrow
[18:00] <niemeyer> Launchpad simply doesn't work
[18:15] <niemeyer> Apparently I can't commit anything to LP
[18:16] <niemeyer> I wonder if it's just me or if it's a general issue
[18:16]  * niemeyer hops onto #lp
 niemeyer, yeah, same here
[18:53] <niemeyer> Today is one of those days when the simple things seem unnaturally complex :)
[18:54]  * niemeyer prepares some chimarrão to relax a bit
[19:21] <niemeyer> Blowing away my local repository and starting over worked
[19:55] <niemeyer> fwereade_: ping
[19:59] <niemeyer> If someone is up for a simple one: https://codereview.appspot.com/6642046
[19:59] <niemeyer> No semantic changes
[22:26]  * fwereade_ needs to restart to complete updates... but is going to subvert power relationships by shutting down instead. ha!


 acheronuk, clivejo: Ping
 BAD RIK. You know it's just apt, not apt-get!
 :P lol
[00:33] <clivejo> whats up?
 How mad would you be if I staged Frameworks 5.29?
 (didn't do it, just wondering if I have a goahead)
 I mean just sticking it in Staging isn't a big deal, right?
 Then we can test from there?
 clivejo: So? You ponged? :D
[00:43] <clivejo> not my call
 Oh?
[00:53]  * mamarley would be a proponent of staging 5.29. :)
 OK mamarley, so if I go ahead I can blame it on you? :D
[00:55] <mamarley> I have no power here, so no. :)
[01:05] <acheronuk> I would like to discuss with someone like yofel/santa what to do about pushing to branches if we should do something like that. As at the moment it would involve using zesty archive, so we would losr our ability to push fixes on that that might be needed for FW 5.28 should 5.29 not work out for some reason.
 I would suggest creating a temporary branch for now while we discuss more permanent branches.
 Thoughts on that idea?
[01:07] <acheronuk> not keen on creating temp branches either
[01:07] <acheronuk> so I am a -1 for tonight
 OK fair enough
[01:07] <acheronuk> but open to discussing it and maybe making a plan tomorrow at a more sensible time
[01:20] <acheronuk> I also forgot about https://trello.com/c/J5w6GdXP/246-cleaning-up-the-road-for-frameworks-5-29
 Yeah, where's Santa at? :[
[01:21]  * acheronuk shrugs
 Absolutely, will do, I'll ping them on IRC in a bit with a Doodle.
[02:52] <sintre> well all is kinda wlel with upgrade, seems every time i try to uninstall something from new discover i crash
[02:52] <sintre> instantly
[02:53] <sintre> discoer program that is
[02:53] <sintre> discover
[04:29] <tsimonq2> !ninjas | bug 1650767
[04:32] <valorie> <IP_ADDRESS>?
[04:33] <tsimonq2> Yeah I know it's a weird bug title
[04:33] <tsimonq2> But it should be investigated nonetheless
[04:44] <valorie> naturally
[05:09]  * ahoneybun wakes up from sleeping for 8 hours...
[05:09] <ahoneybun> 4pm to 12am is bad
[05:24] <tsimonq2> valorie: Ping ping ping guess what I just did
[05:24] <tsimonq2> :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
[05:25] <tsimonq2> I now have a working Kubuntu Xenial Daily image with Backports preinstalled
[05:25] <tsimonq2> I did it myself :D
[05:25] <tsimonq2> Now I'm doing a test install in a VM to confirm it works
[05:27] <tsimonq2> http://storage9.static.itmages.com/i/16/1218/h_1482038810_9988444_1b053c1f50.png
[05:40] <tsimonq2> And... it successfully installed! :D :D :D
[05:40] <tsimonq2> And boots!
[05:40] <tsimonq2> Weeeeeeeeeee
[05:41] <tsimonq2> Ok, uploading to [insert random file hosting site here], when it's done I'll post a link, someone please put it in a better place...
[05:41] <tsimonq2> And test if you want! :D
[05:41] <tsimonq2> I'll submit my changes that I made to get this working as a PR tomorrow to pangea-tooling.
[05:44] <tsimonq2> So it look like this will be the link when it's ready: https://mab.to/8ou7Brlgk
[05:44] <tsimonq2> I'm going to go take a shower, it should be done by the time I get back...
[07:14] <valorie> weeee, congratulations, tsimonq2
[10:39] <acheronuk> urgh. plasma-discover on xenial backport is indeed crashing on uninstall/install. I thought I had tested that and found it ok
[10:39] <acheronuk> there is a patch though for appstream, so building with that now
[11:03] <acheronuk> ok. sorted I think. I can no longer crash it, and fix pushed
[12:26] <blaze> https://www.dennogumi.org/2016/12/killing-the-redundancy-with-automation/
[13:20] <soee> looking at Russ answer it seems he has some problem with his setup rather than packaging: https://plus.google.com/110954078302330754910/posts/H4GR6ySAK3a?sfc=true
[13:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:04] <carcinoma> Hello @all
[15:05] <carcinoma> I asked that question already in #kubuntu but was redirected to here: Currently there are packages from plasma 5.8. I thought they should only in backports-landing cause there are in testing. Did i miss something. Are they considered stable now?
[15:06] <soee> carcinoma: as answered there it is all fine :)
[15:07] <carcinoma> soee: ok, thanks
[15:07] <soee> they are stable and tested but for some users might not work as expected but usually this is the hardware setup problem etc.
[15:07] <soee> but as always something might be also wrong with packaging as nobody is perfect :)
[15:07] <soee> if you notice any problems with packaging, please report them
[15:54] <carcinoma> soee: so, fine. after update the pc is not rebootable. just does nothing if i hit the rebbot button. very stable.
[15:55] <soee> did you tried to reboot from console and than check that button again ?
[15:56] <carcinoma> will do that, but normal user will not do so.
[16:02] <soee> Plasma 5.8 has a lot of chnages and probably also with the reboot/suspend etc. zone
[16:02] <soee> so new packages might have influence on it
[16:02] <soee> i had that to in the past
[16:05] <carcinoma> soee: after reboot the reboot button works. But, the reboot screen is nearly unreadable. everything is transparent but the text and the symbol lines. is that supposed to be that way?
[16:06] <soee> can you show some screenshot ?
[16:06] <DarinMiller> rq -  What's the difference between: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+git/ and https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/
[16:07] <DarinMiller> very similar but not identical (i.e. one of them does not have the KA package).
[16:07] <tsimonq2> DarinMiller: The former is for ANYTHING under our umbrella like pangea-tooling, kubuntu-automation etc. but the latter has just our packaging.
[16:08] <DarinMiller> thanks and gm tsimonq2 o/
[16:08] <tsimonq2> o/
[16:10] <DarinMiller> Are they actually 2 separate sets of files/packages? If so, are they mirrored? Or same set of files, just presented with different filters?
[16:11] <DarinMiller> reason I ask, I tried to use my git shortcut git close kp:kubuntu-automation to pull KA, but it does not work.
[16:12] <DarinMiller> If the packages are identical I think I would want to update my gitconfig shortcut to point to the repo that has everything.
[16:13] <DarinMiller> git clone^ (stupid muscle memory kill me on the command line aslo)...
[16:17] <tsimonq2> Yes DarinMiller, different filters. :)
[16:21] <clivejo> git fetch DarinMiller
[16:23] <tsimonq2> git add FILE_THAT_BREAKS_EVERYTHING && git commit -am "Oh, harmless little change..." && git push -f origin master
[16:24] <clivejo> tsimonq2: stop breaking things!
[16:25] <clivejo> and stop teaching others to break stuff!
[16:25] <carcinoma> soee: i made an image and uploaded it to imgur: http://imgur.com/a/npPEh
[16:25] <carcinoma> soee: do you know what i mean?
[16:31] <soee> carcinoma: seems like it missing background image
[16:32] <soee> try setting it through system settings: http://i.imgur.com/jexkMIZ.png
[16:41] <carcinoma> soee: the setting seems to be ok: http://imgur.com/a/S74rA
[16:47] <soee> carcinoma: strange, try purging ~/.cache
[16:48] <clivejo> acheronuk: plasma-discover seems to be crashing in zesty unstable, any ideas why?
[16:50] <DarinMiller> Thanks clivejo and tsimonq2, makes sense.  Fetch makes more sense for a rookie.  I playing with the clone option as that's what specified in section 2.1 in KA README.ng...
[16:50] <soee> maybe same as in neon, it requires kirigami 2
[16:52] <acheronuk> clivejo: because it is 'unstable' maybe? :P
[16:53] <clivejo> but it shouldnt be crashing unstable
[16:53] <clivejo> just mentally unstable
[16:53] <DarinMiller> clivejo: plasma-discover crashes on my zesty box also... and the running from command line says something about kirigami.
[16:53] <acheronuk> master branches will crash sometimes
[16:53] <clivejo> DarinMiller: yup thats what I'm thinking
[16:54] <clivejo> and acheronuk was working on kirigami
[16:54] <clivejo> if theres blame, theres a claim :P
[16:54] <acheronuk> there have been a lot of changes to make it kirigami 2 lately, and maybe not stable yet
[16:57] <acheronuk> plus maybe also needs a better or different appstream, packagkit etc than is in the zesty archive
[16:58] <carcinoma> soee: i removed the .cache folder but no change. i also changed the settings to disashow, apply, and back to "Einfarbig". Also, no change. Do you have another idea?
[17:00] <acheronuk> carcinoma: the nearly transparent logout background is intentional design choice by KDE in 5.8 AFAIK
[17:01] <soee> carcinoma: this is logout not losck screen?
[17:02] <soee> if logout than yes, it should be transparent
[17:02] <soee> here is mine http://i.imgur.com/vgxXgUv.png
[17:02] <carcinoma> soee: right, logout, not lock
[17:02] <soee> than it is all fine :)
[17:03] <carcinoma> soee: but why? with our background it works, but having a website in the background or a terminal this is terrible...
[17:04] <acheronuk> there is a KDE forum thread or bug I've seen on the issue somewhere I think?
[17:04] <soee> maybe due to your gpu drivers it isn't blurred enough
[17:04] <soee> for me it is fne
[17:04]  * soee afk for a while
[17:06] <carcinoma> soee: you are right, there is no blur, i will search for that KDE forum thread acheronuk mentioned
[17:06] <acheronuk> carcinoma: not sure if it was on kde forum itself. I read too many forums to recall exactly :/
[17:07] <acheronuk> does widget blur setting affect it?
[17:13] <acheronuk> carcinoma: also seems here that KDE devs designed it assuming you would have some widget background blur enabled in desktop effects
[17:13] <acheronuk> e.g. http://i.imgur.com/NIPTakZ.png
[17:13] <acheronuk> which is probably what soee has set
[17:15] <carcinoma> acheronuk: seems to work now: i changed that option called "Verblassen" http://imgur.com/a/yYLKa like so: http://imgur.com/a/Y8tB7 (full filled checkbox, whatever the difference is here)
[17:18] <BluesKaj> what could cause an upgrade from 16.04 to 16,10 to not install the latest default kernel 4.8?
[17:19] <carcinoma> acheronuk: oh, and, btw, when i change the settings back to that partial filled checkbox it still works
[17:24] <sintre> that was fast , latest update fixed  discover crash problem when trying to uninstall
[17:24] <acheronuk> sintre: good :)
[17:25] <sintre> lol yea i installed a bunch of kid games for my nephew to see if any might be ufefull
[17:25] <sintre> i was stuck with some psybrainy game and i couldn't get rid of it lol
[17:26] <clivejo> I dont like this new wallpaper :/
[17:26] <acheronuk> sintre: there is always muon and synaptic package managers you can install as well as discover, which should be more reliable, if less pretty
[17:26] <acheronuk> sintre: I personally don't think discover is ready for use yet
[17:27] <acheronuk> not even in 'unstable' :P
[17:27] <sintre> yea i've got muon , i'll download the synaptic one a bit later and peek around that
[17:27] <acheronuk> clivejo: it's growing on me a bit now
[17:28] <acheronuk> sintre: synaptic is a bit of an old school gtk application, but it reliably does the job
[17:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project zesty_unstable_discover build #73: STILL UNSTABLE in 13 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/zesty_unstable_discover/73/
[17:31] <clivejo> acheronuk: I agree, the plans at akademy sounded great, but I dont think its anywhere near show time
[17:33] <clivejo> acheronuk: did you get a chance to test any of those ISOs?
[17:41] <acheronuk> clivejo: umm. not yet
[17:45] <acheronuk> clivejo: this still the correct place? http://kci.pangea.pub/job/iso_zesty_unstable_amd64/ws/result/
[17:46] <clivejo> think so
[17:54] <acheronuk> hmm. looks like our kirigami in KCI is producing KF5Kirigami2Config.cmake but discover still wants the old KF5KirigamiConfig.cmake
[17:55] <acheronuk> so discover devs need to do some catching up :P
[17:55] <clivejo> seems so
[17:55] <carcinoma> soee: acheronuk: thank you for your help. on another pc thos problems does not occure.
[17:56] <acheronuk> carcinoma: I think the KDE devs assume certain defaults, and they may not occur depending (a) user set prefs and (b) KDE set defaults based on what it thinks your graphic card can do
[17:57] <acheronuk> e.g. if your card can do the blur or not
[17:57] <acheronuk> carcinoma: but glad you got that sorted :)
[17:59] <acheronuk> clivejo: anything particular to test with this iso?
[17:59] <clivejo> if it actually works!
[18:00] <acheronuk> live session? install? both?
[18:00] <clivejo> all!
[18:00] <sintre> happy dance
[18:00]  * acheronuk tries all the things
[18:02] <acheronuk> clivejo: are those isos going to go somewhere web accessible that doesn't need a KCIO login? as my DL manager got told to get lost by OpenID
[18:03] <clivejo> eventually
[18:03] <clivejo> if the stuff works
[18:04] <acheronuk> ok. trying live session
[18:04] <clivejo> you got it downloaded?
[18:06] <acheronuk> yes
[18:06] <clivejo> grrr
[18:06] <clivejo> so jealous of fats internets
[18:06] <clivejo> fast
[18:06] <acheronuk> 'fat' pipe
[18:07] <acheronuk> ok. a slightly old fashioned ubuiquity session flashes up, crashes, a new session tries to start (presumably the live) and that crashes to TTY login
[18:08] <acheronuk> boot shows some oldish looking purlish theming? maybe using some of the old ubuntu default settings?
[18:08] <clivejo> probably
[18:08] <clivejo> have you get a screenshot
[18:10] <acheronuk> logging in to TTY with user ubuntu and black password works
[18:10] <acheronuk> *blank
[18:11] <acheronuk> startx (slowly) gets me a decent looking desktop
[18:12] <clivejo> Need to tweet the packages we pulling in there
[18:13] <acheronuk> running desktop: http://i.imgur.com/l51MNgF.png
[18:13] <clivejo> looks good !
[18:14] <acheronuk> trying an install to HD
[18:18] <acheronuk> installer crash
[18:19] <clivejo> awwww
[18:21] <acheronuk> then the session crashed before I could note or screenshot that. something with qtquick in it
[18:23] <acheronuk> give it another go I think. accpeting more of the defaults
[18:26] <acheronuk> ok. goes ok. even starts copying files in the background. but as soon I click continue on the timezone screen I get this:
[18:26] <clivejo> I think the live-cd package was a meta package to pull in all the needed pacakges
[18:26] <acheronuk> http://i.imgur.com/btCoPtP.png
[18:28] <acheronuk> On a bright note, that looks very much like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1650767
[18:28] <acheronuk> which is a general 17.04 issue, and not this KCI iso maybe?
[18:29] <acheronuk> general kubuntu 17.04 I shoudl say
[18:32] <acheronuk> hehe
[18:32] <acheronuk> clivejo: if I Esc into the grub menu, I get: http://i.imgur.com/vscz5gK.png
[18:42] <acheronuk> but that fails also :/
[18:42]  * acheronuk wishes for a text mode installer to come back
[19:01] <mamarley> Haha, I am apparently still the author of the most recent changelog entry for Amarok because I just got an email saying that it failed to build on s390x.
[19:04] <mamarley> If anyone is actually running Kubuntu on an IBM mainframe, that would make me laugh.
 clivejo, acheronuk: You test my ISO?
[20:05] <clivejo> not I
[20:37] <clivejo> anyone seen Carlo V around?
[20:40] <clivejo> acheronuk: https://rthomsen6.wordpress.com/2016/12/18/introducing-systemdgenie/
[20:54] <acheronuk> interesting
[20:59] <clivejo> gonna packae it up
[21:06] <clivejo> anyone having LP issues?
[21:28] <DarinMiller> What issues?
[21:28] <clivejo> cant seem to upload
[21:29] <sintre> well not related to cliv , but everytime i close konsole it gives me a pop up saying applicattion closed unexpectadely
[21:29] <sintre> wether i do something in it or not
[21:40] <DarinMiller> sintre: I have seen that before on older releases, though typically in beta releases.  They typically clear up along the way.  What version of Kbuntu and are you running backports?
[21:41] <sintre> 16.04  backports
[21:41] <sintre> upgraded everything yesterday
[21:42] <sintre> yea , people seem fast yesterday had a uninstall problem , with disocver update this morning cleared that up
[21:42] <sintre> it still works , but odd it keeps giving me the msg
[21:42] <sintre> thanks i closed it then it tells you it crashed lol :)
[21:48] <DarinMiller> sintre: try closing it by typing exit in the command line.  Is the crash still reported?
[21:48] <DarinMiller> sintre: booting over to my 16.04 install to try myself.
[21:48] <sintre> let me try
[21:48] <sintre> yep
[21:49] <sintre> used exit command
[21:49] <sintre> same pop up
[21:51] <acheronuk> testing testing.....
[21:52] <acheronuk> nope. no crash notification here
[21:52] <sintre> well no clue maybe i'm unlucky but on my system 100% all the time
[21:53] <sintre> odd
[21:53] <DarinMiller> hmm, no terminal close warning on any of my boxes: 16.04 w/ bp, 16.10 with bp, 17.04 with staging, 17.04 with unstable ppa, neon and neon dev unstable.
[21:53] <sintre> no clue here then
[21:53] <sintre> as everything is updated
[21:53] <acheronuk> well, no sintre, not unlucky. I could reproduce the discover crash, so could fix it
[21:54] <DarinMiller> sintre: from a terminal type konsole &
[21:54] <sintre> thx for that :)
[21:54] <DarinMiller> exit out of that terminal and see if an error messages is left behind in the original terminal...
[21:55] <sintre> a@na:~$ kf5.kcoreaddons.kaboutdata: Could not initialize the equivalent properties of Q*Application: no instance (yet) existing.
[21:55] <sintre> https://thepasteb.in/p/xGhmnP7YGl2HM
[21:55] <acheronuk> sintre: click the little sad face in the system tray after the crash if there is one. that may be able to give you a backtrace
[21:55] <sintre> i dn' get a sad face
[21:55] <sintre> sinse upgrade yesterday
[21:56] <acheronuk> hmmm..
[21:56] <sintre> https://thepasteb.in/p/nZhlArP8EJpFY
[21:56] <sintre> that full after that command you gave me
[21:58] <DarinMiller> sintre: when you launched konsole from a terminal, did you receive the crash notification when closing the child konsole window?
[21:58] <sintre> if forgot let me try again
[21:59] <sintre> ok now konsole won't even launch
[21:59] <sintre> hmm
[22:00] <sintre> well tried launch another app see if it shook something loose but no go
[22:00] <sintre> brb gonna reboot
[22:03] <sintre> back , so maybe some extra info when trying to reboot system locked up on way out and just sat at a lil clicking line top left corner
[22:03] <sintre> had to force shutdown
[22:08] <DarinMiller> sounds like you might be fighting a plasma issue.  I suggest restarting plasma for quicker turnaround: killall plasamshell && plasmashell &
[22:08] <DarinMiller> When you say force shutdown, in what manner? REISUB?
[22:08] <sintre> hit power button
[22:09] <sintre> and hold it
[22:09] <sintre> yep same thing just tried console again
[22:09] <sintre> ahh another enigma hehe
[22:09] <DarinMiller> Are you aware of the REISUB option?  It's a little gentler on the OS than holding the power button.
[22:09] <sintre> ?
[22:10] <sintre> is that a command?
[22:10] <sintre> restart? yea used that thats when it locked up
[22:11] <DarinMiller> Its a way to restart your PC assuming the keyboard still works.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
[22:11] <sintre> ok i did the command again and no when i did it and poped second console up it did not give an error
[22:12] <sintre> https://thepasteb.in/p/JZhp3gjyqPJTg
[22:12] <sintre> same msg i believe
[22:12] <clivejo> acheronuk: kirigami seems to have lost its VCS in unstable branch?
[22:13] <sintre> oops closed wrong window there
[22:13] <DarinMiller> :)
[22:14] <acheronuk> clivejo: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kirigami/tree/debian/control?h=kubuntu_unstable
[22:14] <DarinMiller> sintre: let's continue this conversation on #kubuntu as I think it may be more of a config issue than a packaging problem.
[22:14] <acheronuk> clivejo: indeed
[22:15] <sintre> ok
[22:15] <acheronuk> clivejo: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kirigami/commit/?h=kubuntu_unstable&id=9e61884a5c3a26e990d1837f9ca35750dea9bf5f
[22:17]  * clivejo shrugs
[22:18] <clivejo> and now we have Neon changelog entries
[22:18] <clivejo> yipppeee
[22:20] <acheronuk> to be fair, then is via debian
[22:20] <acheronuk> *that is
[22:38] <sintre2> well last trouble shot for the night
[22:38] <sintre2> https://thepasteb.in/p/Elh1VkZwYrMfm
[22:38] <sintre2> got a sad face with using a guest account
[23:16] <xnox> mamarley, i'm so sorry =) there is no explicit support or work done to have any graphical environment up on s390x
[23:16] <xnox> that's across *buntu
 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/12/install-kde-plasma-5-8-lts-ubuntu


[17:22] <shaneo> anyone in the ormond/daytona area interested in getting a release party setup
[17:23] <shaneo> maybe even port orange area
[17:30] <shaneo> pm me or join #Music.Movies.TV-Chat on EFnet and ill get back to you and we can set something up


[03:31] <guiverc> @Leokolb, can I take over your no-encryption BIOS install & you do an encrypted instead  (that dc7700 box has had some issues lately with ubiquity installs when multiple systems are on it; encryption means I gotta install from scratch instead of using just starting with install.alongside/autoresize..
 Yes of course - no prob.. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> @Leokolb, can I take over your no-encryption BIOS install & you do an encrypted instead  (that dc7700 box has had some issues lately with ubiquity installs when multiple systems are on it; encryption means I gotta install from scratch instead of using just starting with install.alongside/autoresize..)
[06:28] <guiverc> Thanks @Leokolb


[19:49] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls
[19:49] <Eickmeyer> !studio-controls is <reply> Studio Controls is the application through which audio is configured in Ubuntu Studio. It configures Jack, sets the CPU governor, and ensures the user has realtime audio permissions. For more info, see !jack and https://github.com/ovenwerks/studio-controls/wiki


[06:34] <evand> Hrm, we still have the problem of whether or not we let the user modify user details in between pages if we move usersetup after migrationassistant.
[06:35] <evand> only instead of having the problem of whether or not they can edit the user pulled from usersetup in the migrationassistant page, it's the other way around.
[09:09] <mpt> evand, are these symptoms of the problem that we let you migrate multiple user accounts, but we don't let you set up multiple user accounts any other way?
[09:09] <mpt> That seems quite odd to me
[09:10] <evand> I don't follow.  Should I rephrase the problem?
[09:10] <evand> oh hold on
[09:10] <evand> I apparently can't see red
[09:12] <evand> Not really, if I understand what you're saying.  It's the fact that we have two separate pages essentially writing to the same data.  So if I make a change to that data (a user's fullname or password) it either needs to be changed for both or only be able to be changed in one.
[09:13] <evand> For example, if I set up a few accounts in migration assistant, and then I get to user setup and pick one of those users, should I be able to change that user's fullname or password from user setup after I've already established it in migration-assistant?
[09:26] <evand> mpt, so yes, I suppose it is a symptom of that
[09:26] <evand> upon giving it more thought, that is
[04:01] <secureboot> see #paste for my partman preseed section
[04:01] <secureboot> i try to select disc0, the first disc partman knows about, as mentioned in the preseed page
[04:01] <secureboot> but I'm still asked the question "Erase entire disc"
[04:03] <secureboot> thoughts?  from the discussion yesterday, it seemed like it should be obvious from https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html, but it hasn't been so far
[06:09] <cjwatson> you say "disc0" - but in 6.10 that's not the naming scheme any more
[06:09] <cjwatson> /dev/discs/disc0/disc no longer exists
[06:10] <cjwatson> your references to #paste don't really help unless I happen to be there at the time; a web pastebin like paste.ubuntu-nl.org would be better
[07:01] <secureboot> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1325/
[07:02] <secureboot> so the 6.10 preseed contents guide is wrong
[07:04] <cjwatson> oh, yeah, that's a bug
[07:06] <cjwatson> hmm, I think that URL is out of date with respect to what's in edgy
[07:06] <cjwatson> I'll chase mdke about that
[07:07] <cjwatson> in any case, the current version as in the installation-guide-i386 package in edgy is better; it says /dev/sda (in the SCSI case) instead of /dev/discs/disc0/disc
[07:10] <cjwatson> you can't really preseed partman-auto/init_automatically_partition, but if you get the partman-auto/disk preseed right, that won't matter
[07:12] <cjwatson> you don't need to preseed partman-partitioning/confirm_copy
[07:12] <cjwatson> the rest looks fine
[07:13] <cjwatson> at some point I should make the code that handles partman-auto/disk actually throw up an error question if you feed it something it doesn't recognise, so that it's easier to catch this sort of thing
[07:36] <secureboot> i'm assuming /dev/hda in the non-SCSI case
[07:39] <secureboot> the last big issue i've got then - "No installable kernel found in the defined APT sources".  I haven't overridden the mirror or anything in the preseed, nor have i removed packages from the CD.
[07:40] <secureboot> i have this line in my script:
[07:40] <secureboot> os.system("cat " + build_directory + "/dists/" + ubuntu_codename + "/main/binary-" + architecture + "/Packages | perl -e 'while (<>) { chomp; if(/^Package\:\s*(.+)$/) { $pkg=$1; } elsif(/^Task\:\s(.+)$/) { print \"$pkg\tTask\t$1\n\"; } }' >> " + indicies_directory + "/override." + ubuntu_codename + ".extra.main")
[07:40] <secureboot> which is from the example script in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization
[07:41] <secureboot> not having that in gave me this error a long time ago, but now it's coming back
[07:41] <secureboot> thoughts?
[08:06] <secureboot> and with /dev/hda, i still have to pick "Erase entire disk" manually


[00:46] <bluesabre> Unit193: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6wjZFXVZU&feature=youtu.be
[00:46] <knome> cool
[01:36] <micahg> back
[01:45] <bluesabre> hey micahg
[01:45] <micahg> hi bluesabre
[01:45] <bluesabre> how's it going?
[01:46] <micahg> ok, trying to finish up the reviews quickly
[01:46] <micahg> thanks for the blueman upload
[01:46] <bluesabre> np
[01:47] <bluesabre> been home all day, in front of my computer for 14 hours so far
[01:47] <bluesabre> might be time for a break
[01:47] <micahg> wow, I haven't been that fortunate :)
[01:48] <bluesabre> I'd say I haven't been that fortunate either, considering everything else I could have been doing ;)
[02:05] <knome> micahg, good luck with the stuff and please remember to update the work items once you complete them
[02:05] <knome> be back tomorrow
[02:05] <knome> nighty
[02:52] <bluesabre> night all
[02:53] <yakamo> hello
[02:54] <yakamo> does xubuntu use systemd?
[02:55] <micahg> We're using whichever init system Ubuntu is
[02:55] <micahg> so, for 14.04, no; for 15.10, yes
[02:56]  * micahg didn't realize before that comments on MRs now need to be saved...
[02:57] <yakamo> micahg: thanks thats good to know
[03:13] <yakamo> i thought ubuntu had systemd for a few years
[03:16] <micahg> in the repo, not as default init
[03:16] <yakamo> ah ok
[03:17] <yakamo> well im gona have to try out xubuntu i think
[03:17] <micahg> it has a nice balance between functional and keeping out of the way IMHO
[03:18] <yakamo> im originally a Debian user
[03:18] <yakamo> im used to building up a custom system
[03:18] <yakamo> but im fed up with that and just want to get to work on my projects these days
[03:29] <micahg> two review down, one to go
[03:29] <micahg> s/review/reviews/
[03:29] <SwissBot> micahg meant: "two reviews down, one to go"
[03:30] <yakamo> what are you reviewing
[03:30] <micahg> Merge requests to start building a xubuntu core image
[03:30] <yakamo> ah ok
[03:31] <yakamo> so lots to do then
[03:32] <micahg> yeah, I have a backlog about a mile long ;)
[03:33] <yakamo> result is worth it
[03:34] <micahg> oh, I don't have much with producing Xubuntu itself anymore unfortunately, here and there I help with uploads and review and am an avid user, here's the wiki with project leads listed, they do a lot more than I do for Xubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact, there are many others that help as well
[03:36] <yakamo> every bit counts though
[03:40] <yakamo> dam i should get some sleep its way late
[04:12] <micahg> ok, reviews done
[04:24] <krytarik> micahg: Thanks!
[04:24] <micahg> you're welcome
[05:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: weeeeeird fix for parole dying on quitting, maybe the same is true for gmusicbrowser (which started to do that last cycle)
[05:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, still good you found it and all
[05:43] <ochosi> huge thumbs up for that
[05:43]  * ochosi is off for work
[08:46] <slickymasterWork> knome, saw your ping in the logs
[08:46] <slickymasterWork> I'll test it tonight
[09:52] <bluesabre> morning all
[09:54] <bluesabre> knome: I have one more request for the tracker (may or may not be related)... can we show historical data for image sizes?
[09:55] <bluesabre> current releases and running dev cycle
[09:55] <bluesabre> unless there is already a place that does that, ofc
[10:01] <knome> bluesabre, where do i get that data?
[10:03] <knome> micahg, thanks! did you have time to peek at the packageset issue?
[10:04] <bluesabre> hey knome
[10:04] <knome> hey bluesabre
[10:06] <bluesabre> um, hey knome
[10:06] <knome> :D :D
[10:06] <knome> says he reluctacntly
[10:06] <knome> -c
[10:09]  * bluesabre doesn't know what micahg did
[10:09] <knome> Unit193: do you know what micahg reviewed? :P
[10:10] <knome> Unit193, and what effects that has on our blueprints...
[10:15] <bluesabre> found the mps on the dev blueprint (where I should have looked)
[10:15] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879
[10:15] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core/+merge/267880
[10:15] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167
[10:16] <bluesabre> sounds like Unit193 only needs to make a few changes
[10:16] <knome> Unit193, do you have a clear idea where to go next with these?
[10:16] <bluesabre> so that's good
[10:18] <bluesabre> knome: as for image data, could potentially parse cdimage... though I can imagine that to be crap
[10:22] <knome> yes, that's the "obvious" way
[10:23] <knome> but of course, if there was a more elegant way...
[10:23] <knome> at least the path is always same
[10:24] <knome> btw, we should poke people to change our target size
[10:24] <knome> bluesabre, would you like to do that on -release?
[10:24] <bluesabre> I can do that
[10:25] <bluesabre> what target size do we want to request?
[10:25] <bluesabre> (we're currently over 1G)
[10:25] <knome> i don't think it matters too much, i was thinking whether 1.5G is an insane target (since there aren't really devices of that size)
[10:25] <knome> if we want to target a specific device, then it could be 2G
[10:26] <knome> but it could just as well be 1.5G...
[10:26] <knome> as long as we don't get the warnings
[10:26] <knome> i mean for the real target size we should likely have a discussion with the team
[10:26] <knome> but i'd rather just dodge the bullets now ASAP
[10:27] <knome> brb
[10:30] <knome> actually, bbiab
[10:50] <knome> ok, back
[11:30] <bluesabre> gotta head to work, bbl
[16:39] <flocculant> didn't notice change in icons on logout dialogue
[16:40] <flocculant> or rather - didn't before - have now or I'd not have commented :D
[18:39] <knome> hey cyphermox, we'll need an upload for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu - i've also merged ubuntu-specific stuff there, so they'll want it too :)
[18:46] <cyphermox> yup, I told GunnarHj I'd do an upload today, still mean to
[18:46] <knome> thanks!
[18:46] <cyphermox> just getting stuff together for other things before I can get to the slideshow
[19:02] <cyphermox> knome: apparently harald sitter uploaded it an hour ago.
[19:02] <knome> oh great!
[19:03] <knome> nice guy, good work
[19:26] <flocculant> knome: are we supposed to have ubuntu login icons?
[19:26] <knome> flocculant, what on earth ARE "ubuntu login icons" ?
[19:27] <flocculant> hang on
[19:28] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/PE73gtQ.png
[19:29] <flocculant> they've turned up recently as far as I can tell
[19:29] <knome> flocculant, used by default?
[19:29] <flocculant> also don't remember ubuntu mono either
[19:29] <flocculant> seems so for the logout dialogue
[19:29] <knome> aha
[19:30] <knome> well for your question, no, i don't think we are supposed to have them
[19:30] <knome> maybe bluesabre can fix that
[19:30] <knome> O:)
[19:30] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/HCs0l3h.png
[19:32] <knome> heh.
[19:32] <knome> that's not the worst thing, but it's not very pretty either..
[19:32] <flocculant> yep
[19:32] <flocculant> dependency of adwaita I think
[19:32] <flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12316063/
[19:33] <knome> o.O
[19:33] <knome> why is THAT even in our task?
[19:34] <flocculant> oh hang on ...
[19:34] <flocculant> that might be from me not live :D
[19:34] <knome> no, the task says xubuntu-desktop
[19:34] <knome> but maybe it's because it's gnome default
[19:34] <knome> maybe that is a dependency for something else we want to have
[19:36] <flocculant> adwaita?
[19:36] <knome> mm.
[19:37] <flocculant> evince-gtk is one
[19:37] <knome> right
[19:37] <flocculant> bit mank - don't much like the 'zz' on hibernate
[19:38] <flocculant> not that I see that anywhere but in vm :p
[19:38] <knome> heh
[19:44] <flocculant> thought I was seeing things for a minute tbh :)
[19:44] <flocculant> I guess if that's the worse thing we need to worry about atm then we're not doing too badly
[19:45] <knome> we're definitely doing pretty good
[19:45] <flocculant> yep
[19:45] <knome> another bug fix released thanks to bluesabre and cyphermox
[19:45] <knome> and with that, another work item too
[19:46] <knome> and since micah reviewed the patches yesterday, one item done and three more can progress
[19:46] <knome> and one of yours might get unblocked soon
[19:46] <flocculant> yep - been watching those discussions ;)
[19:46]  * knome has been updating the blueprints
[19:47] <flocculant> :)
[19:47] <flocculant> should see feh soon?
[19:47] <knome> next build
[19:48] <flocculant> \o/
[19:48] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1437180/comments/13
[19:50] <knome> btw, did you have anything specific you wanted us to correlate in the survey results?
[19:50] <flocculant> iirc was mostly interested in office/media
[19:50] <knome> they were both around 20-25%
[19:50] <knome> but office was with abiword and gnumeric
[19:51] <flocculant> yes
[19:51] <flocculant> ~25% used defaults?
[19:51] <flocculant> assuming so
[19:51] <knome> yep
[19:52] <knome> but what i was actually asking
[19:52] <knome> is if you wanted me to correlate that with something
[19:52] <flocculant> /usr/lib/gcc is enormously bigger in wily than trusty
[19:52] <knome> eg. there was ~70% percent who said they're power users
[19:53] <flocculant> mmm
[19:53] <flocculant> not sure
[19:53] <knome> so should we check how much of the *non-power-users* were happy with the default selection?
[19:53] <flocculant> I'd say so - yes
[19:53] <knome> heh, yeah...
[19:53] <knome> so if you have other similar correlations you'd like to see - just tell me and i'll dig that information up
[19:53] <flocculant> as long as our baseline is what I assume - power user will go meh and find/install what they want
[19:54] <knome> yep
[19:54] <flocculant> I think to my mind - the correlations we should work from as a base are the non-power user
[19:54] <knome> so get all results with only non-power-users?
[19:54] <flocculant> 33MB in trusty, 410 in wily :p
[19:55] <knome> also, what about the small amount that told others maintain their computer?
[19:55] <knome> should we also leave them out?
[19:55] <flocculant> I would
[19:55] <knome> ok
[19:55] <flocculant> I would assume that 'they' are power users
[19:55] <flocculant> at least more powered up than those repsonding :)
[19:58] <flocculant> not that I've any idea what we'd do if we decided something about gmb
[19:58] <knome> heh
[19:59] <knome> media is more than just gmb though
[20:00] <flocculant> of course
[20:01] <flocculant> should I report the icon issue so there's something as a record?
[20:02] <knome> sure
[20:02] <flocculant> I'll do it from the daily - no fighting with apport and ppa's then :p
[20:03] <knome> heh
[20:03] <flocculant> mmm - what package shall I report it against?
[20:03] <knome> no idea...
[20:03] <knome> are they used after installing as well?
[20:03] <knome> or just at installation?
[20:04] <flocculant> not sure - I'll install it
[20:04] <knome> :)
[20:04] <knome> if only at installation, then probably ubiquity
[20:04] <flocculant> mostly just been checking the image works lately
[20:06] <flocculant> that said I do see the same on my machine too
[20:06] <flocculant> but that's had all sorts done and installed on it
[20:14] <flocculant> knome: nope - installed as well
[20:15] <knome> mhm
[20:15] <knome> sounds like packaging
[20:15] <knome> or sth like that
[20:15] <knome> xubuntu-artwork? :P
[20:15] <flocculant> ok
[20:16] <flocculant> drums fingers waiting for launchpad ...
[20:22] <flocculant> bug 1493547
[20:31] <flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
[20:31] <flocculant> I shall see what gets said in the morning
[20:31] <flocculant> night
[20:33] <krytarik> flocculant: That it's actually elementary Xfce. :D
[20:34] <krytarik> Night though.
[21:46] <knome> slickymaster, if you link to the PDFs from each page, then you can't really do the paragraph
[21:47] <slickymaster> can't a sort of a header, or footer, note be added to the xml knome?
[21:47] <knome> sure, we can do the links in the header or footer, but there are visual issues with that
[21:48] <knome> in the header, it wouldn't look very good with a long text
[21:48] <knome> and in the footer area we already have the navigation icons
[21:48] <knome> would it appear before or after that?
[21:48] <knome> and in the footer, i think it's relatively hidden...
[21:49] <knome> we don't even know how many people would rather use a PDF than the html version
[21:50] <slickymaster> yeah, I'm not taking the aesthetics aspect of the solution in consideration
[21:51] <slickymaster> the footer option is to forget, due to the navigation icons
[21:51] <knome> also, if people link to a specific section to the docs, why couldn't the mention there is a PDF version available as well?
[21:52] <knome> when i point people to the docs, i mention they are also available from the menu
[21:52] <knome> and if they go to the menu and see the docs, they will end up on the front page with the PDF mention
[21:53] <knome> or in other words, are we really overthinking the possibility that somebody might "miss out" on the PDF?
[21:54] <slickymaster> no the idea was to give people the chance of getting 'partial' PDFs id wanted
[21:54] <knome> no, you can't get a partial PDF
[21:54] <knome> it would always be the full PDF
[21:54] <knome> unless we started exporting per-chapter PDF's but ugh, what a mess
[21:54] <slickymaster> hmm, in that case I misunderstood it
[21:55] <slickymaster> being that the case, there's no need to discuss it
[21:55] <knome> krytarik, ha! i win!
[21:56] <slickymaster> lol
[21:57] <ochosi> late evening all
[21:57] <knome> hello ochosi
[21:57] <ochosi> flocculant: yeah, those themes really shouldn't be installed. we don't need them at all
[21:57] <slickymaster> hi ochosi
[21:57] <knome> ochosi, has the baby sang "i dress up in women's clothing, like my dear pa-pa" yet?
[21:58] <knome> or - have you sang that to the baby :P
[21:58] <knome> sung?
[21:59] <knome> whateva
[22:00] <ochosi> :)
[22:00] <ochosi> not yet
[22:01] <knome> aha! that does imply that you will sing it together
[22:01] <knome> ...and that implies you are dressing up in women's clothing
[22:02] <ochosi> ofc
[22:03] <knome> ok, now that this discussion is publicly logged and archived, let's move on...
[22:03] <ochosi> ineed
[22:03] <ochosi> indeed
[22:03] <knome> what do youneed?
[22:04] <ochosi> i like how the tracker looks
[22:04] <ochosi> good progress
[22:04] <knome> yep
[22:04] <knome> totally
[22:04] <knome> now if only Unit193 got his act together and did the changes micahg asked in his reviews
[22:04] <ochosi> :>
[22:05] <ochosi> yeah, where's that one hiding i wonder...
[22:05] <knome> then bluesabre could help Unit193 with the sponsoring stuff and then they could ask flocculant to test the core ISO
[22:05] <knome> and maybe krytarik could help with updating his bits and also prod slickymaster to help with testing
[22:05] <knome> so pleia2 could write a blog article about it
[22:06] <ochosi> nice dependency chain
[22:06] <slickymaster> btw knome we still have the FAQ content to think about
[22:06] <ochosi> btw, new greybird pull request
[22:06] <knome> ochosi, and nice pinging! :P
[22:06] <ochosi> hehe
[22:06] <knome> slickymaster, yeah...
[22:07] <bluesabre> evening all
[22:07]  * knome is the summoner
[22:07] <slickymaster> hey bluesabre
[22:08] <ochosi> knome: please check that one out, it looks very promising
[22:08] <ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/pull/104
[22:08]  * knome checks
[22:10] <ochosi> if you can, pls test
[22:10] <ochosi> it's fairly easy, just clone to $somedir, then create ~/.themes/Greybird-a11y and ln -s $somedir/xfwm4 to Greybird-a11y
[22:10] <knome> i'll put that on my "mental" list for later this week
[22:10] <ochosi> oh
[22:11] <ochosi> i'll likely merge it today
[22:11] <knome> haha
[22:11] <knome> ok
[22:11] <ochosi> i don't have many free evenings/hours
[22:11] <ochosi> so i have to be fairly efficient if i wanna get that last workitem done
[22:11] <knome> it looks fine to me in the github diff
[22:11] <ochosi> in context: http://i.imgur.com/PFFc2vR.png
[22:12] <knome> yep
[22:12] <micahg> knome: no, not yet, that's a little more complicated I htink
[22:13] <knome> micahg, what are you referring to?
[22:13] <micahg> packageset issue
[22:13] <knome> ok
[22:14] <ochosi> well frankly we should contact whoever pulled in orion to kubuntu and ask them to "return" it to us
[22:14] <ochosi> or we can also kick it out of shimmer themes
[22:14] <ochosi> it's not maintained anymore (by us, or at all, afaik
[22:15] <ochosi> so there are some easy solutions
[22:16] <knome> what was the package through which it got pulled to kubuntu again?
[22:16] <knome> or the chain
[22:17] <micahg> that's not it, the logic around kubuntu is still special cased, where I think it maybe shouldn't be anymore, I still need to dig into it
[22:18] <ochosi> right, but can't we just ask nicely?
[22:18] <ochosi> i mean there must be a responsible person
[22:18] <knome> i could ask a kubuntu person if i had the details...
[22:19] <ochosi> bluesabre: would you be ok with adding another xfwm4 theme to the greybird build? we would need Greybird-a11y to show up as a separate xfwm4 theme like Greybird_compact
[22:19] <knome> that would be nice of us, now that we actually have such
[22:20] <bluesabre> ochosi: that's easy to do
[22:21] <bluesabre> as long as you give me the new theme before thursday ;)
[22:21] <knome> bluesabre, notice that you might need sponsoring :P
[22:22] <ochosi> bluesabre: i can finalize this now
[22:22] <knome> yay
[22:22] <bluesabre> knome: ah, good point
[22:22] <bluesabre> so today would be good
[22:22] <bluesabre> then micahg might be able to sponsor for me soon
[22:25] <bluesabre> ochosi: the upstream logout icon caught flocculant off guard since its orange: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1493547
[22:25] <ochosi> hehe
[22:25] <ochosi> it's a nice one, i personally like it
[22:25] <ochosi> but the restart one looks a bit dusty next to it
[22:25] <ochosi> i'll probably have to redo that one for 16.04
[22:28] <ochosi> bluesabre: would i create much work for you if i renamed the xfwm4_compact folder to xfwm4-compact?
[22:29] <ochosi> no idea why i ever used an underscore there
[22:29] <bluesabre> ochosi: go ahead
[22:29] <ochosi> k, thanks
[22:29] <knome> ochosi, with all of your dashitis, good variety...
[22:31] <ochosi> hey, i love my dash-itis
[22:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, it's all merged
[22:35] <ochosi> wanna take a brief look before i tag a new release?
[22:35] <bluesabre> ochosi: checking it
[22:35] <ochosi> ty
[22:36] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, that should be fine
[22:37] <bluesabre> just gotta update wily and daily packaging
[22:37] <ochosi> i was able to close the currently oldest greybird issue \o/
[22:37] <ochosi> (single px borders are unusable for resizing)
[22:38] <bluesabre> woot
[22:38] <ochosi> btw, tagging elementary-xfce was a bit superfluous unless we change our policy there to always tag a new release when we upload
[22:39] <ochosi> so far we basically just pushed snapshots of it
[22:39] <ochosi> and i released independently
[22:39] <ochosi> but yeah, it's a sort of constant rolling release thingy
[22:40] <bluesabre> ochosi: you said to tag a new release
[22:40] <ochosi> oh, i meant of xubuntu-artwork :>
[22:41] <ochosi> but nvm, i really have no idea when it would be sane to tag a new icon theme release
[22:42] <bluesabre> :D
[22:42] <bluesabre> +icon, +release number
[22:42] <bluesabre> :D
[22:42] <ochosi> ;)
[22:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, so tagging greybird now...
[22:44] <ochosi> unless you needed anything else there
[22:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: go ahead
[22:48] <ochosi> there you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.6.2
[22:48] <bluesabre> woot
[22:49] <ochosi> knome: and another workitem done
[22:49] <ochosi> and yay, artwork is the first blueprint to be totally done
[22:49] <knome> :)
[22:49] <knome> it's often been like that
[22:49] <ochosi> ofc
[22:50] <ochosi> we're the most efficient team ;
[22:50] <ochosi> )
[22:50]  * knome high fives ochosi
[22:50]  * ochosi high fives back
[22:50] <knome> oops, i missed
[22:50] <knome> hope that didn't hurt your nose too much
[22:50] <knome> the silliest thing is when high fives and "gang greetings" go wrong
[22:51] <knome> it looks so silly and embarrassing at the same time
[22:51] <bluesabre> ochosi: so, what do you want the theme to be called?
[22:51] <bluesabre> greybird-a11y?
[22:51] <knome> bluesabre, seans-secret-lab
[22:51] <bluesabre> knome: OK
[22:51] <ochosi> hmm
[22:51] <ochosi> i thought we would call it that
[22:51] <ochosi> but if you have a friendlier name in mind, i don't mind
[22:51] <knome> greybird-accessibility isn't bad either
[22:51] <ochosi> yeah
[22:52] <ochosi> a11y is not a very accessible shorthand
[22:52] <bluesabre> grostrich?
[22:52] <knome> because really, is it accessible to say "a11y"
[22:52] <knome> heh, yes
[22:52] <knome> gal-blatter-os
[22:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: i like that :D
[22:53] <ochosi> but let's go with Greybird-accessiblity ;)
[22:53] <knome> -blity?!
[22:53] <knome> noess
[22:53] <bluesabre> a11y might be better
[22:53] <bluesabre> r not
[22:54]  * bluesabre doesn't know
[22:54] <ochosi> ok ok, accessibility
[22:54] <bluesabre> accessibility it is
[22:54] <ochosi> yeah, it's longer but more readable
[22:54] <bluesabre> assessability
[22:54] <knome> you don't usually look at that list for too long
[22:54] <ochosi> imo we should add a tab to the accessibility dialog "appearance"
[22:54] <ochosi> and then offer a few shortcuts there
[22:55] <knome> add that as a work item for 16.04
[22:55] <knome> not many told they use the a11y features of xubuntu btw
[22:55] <ochosi> yeah
[22:55] <knome> in a way that's awesome that they told they do
[22:56] <knome> because i don't even know that those features are!
[22:56] <knome> *what
[22:56] <ochosi> yeah
[22:58] <bluesabre> are the survey results available?
[22:58] <knome> yes and no
[22:58] <bluesabre> ok
[22:58] <knome> no public announcement is made yet
[22:58] <bluesabre> will wait
[22:58] <bluesabre> :D
[22:59] <knome> but if you want, i can link you to the google doc
[22:59] <knome> i'll be doing the analysis for the data some day this week most likely
[22:59] <knome> or at latest next week
[22:59] <bluesabre> cool
[23:00] <ochosi> alrighty folks
[23:01] <ochosi> this was a quick visit, but i gotta head to bed now
[23:01] <knome> good night :)
[23:01] <bluesabre> night ochosi
[23:01] <ochosi> night y'all and ttyl ;)
[23:02] <slickymaster> nighty night ocx
[23:02] <slickymaster> damn autocompletion
[23:02] <knome> hah?
[23:02] <slickymaster> have a good one ochosi
[23:02] <knome> is "ocx" on your autocomplete list?
[23:03] <slickymaster> most probably, but then again it just came out
[23:03] <knome> :P
[23:03] <slickymaster> either that or I'm going nuts
[23:08] <bluesabre> slackymister
[23:08] <knome> D:
[23:08] <bluesabre> :D
[23:08] <slickymaster> better that than slimmy bluesabre
[23:08] <bluesabre> +1
[23:08] <knome> i have another variant of the nick but that's not suitable for family-friendly channels.
[23:09] <slickymaster> and for me I presume :P
[23:15]  * drc likes greybird-a11y...as an old fart should :)
[23:15] <drc> no need to use "default" now.
[23:19] <drc> nope...-a11y makes windows just a few pixels too tall to quarter the desktop :(
[23:21] <drc> The window size I want, I mean.
[23:24] <drc> But I still like it :(
[23:26] <bluesabre> that is quite nice
[23:27] <knome> what again...
[23:27] <bluesabre> oh
[23:27] <knome> :P
[23:27] <bluesabre> he's back
[23:27] <knome> :D
[23:27] <bluesabre> :p
[23:27] <knome> hahah
[23:27] <knome> apparently there's something more going wrong
[23:27] <bluesabre> a11y theme is nice
[23:27] <slickymaster> it was quite a fall
[23:27] <knome> my home internet dropped for a few mins a moment ago
[23:27] <knome> now it also affected the shell
[23:28] <slickymaster> not just your's knome, astraljava's also
[23:28] <knome> yes, we share the shell provider
[23:28] <slickymaster> oh ok
[23:28] <knome> so it does make sense..
[23:28] <slickymaster> ỹeaps
[23:28] <knome> krytarik, did this for you while i was waiting to get back to IRC: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/revision/426
[23:30] <knome> you all should have seen how it affected #ubuntu-fi*
[23:30] <knome> people are still joining back
[23:31] <krytarik> knome: Nice! Looks proper. :)
[23:31] <knome> thanks
[23:37] <bluesabre> micahg: would you be interested in sponsoring shimmer-themes to wily from my sponsoring ppa? https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
[23:38] <bluesabre> :)
[23:38] <knome> ooh, fancy, sponsoring ppa
[23:39]  * bluesabre likes the finer things in life, like ppas
[23:40] <knome> why did i read "bluesabre likes to finger things..."
[23:42] <bluesabre> because knome is inappropriate and silly
[23:42] <slickymaster> you are incorrigible knome
[23:42] <knome> now now, fingering doesn't always mean inappropriate things
[23:43] <bluesabre> ... nobody decides to take that any further
[23:44] <bluesabre> ... but everyone watches and waits for somebody
[23:44] <bluesabre> D:
[23:44] <knome> nope.
[23:44] <knome> (or maybe in a PM)
[23:44] <bluesabre> lol
[23:53] <micahg> bluesabre: sure, but a bit later
[23:58] <bluesabre> micahg: thanks


[00:52] <LjL-Mibbit> pff guitar hero session and my sister doesn't want to go home...
[02:47] <cody-somerville> [22:29] <Rakeer> You have been invited to #stupiditypwns by Spencerical (kubrick.freenode.net)
[02:47] <cody-somerville> Is Spencerical a bot/troll?
[02:47] <cody-somerville> * [Spencerical] (n=Spencer@cpe-76-190-209-210.neo.res.rr.com): Spencer
[02:51] <nalioth> cody-somerville: thanks for the heads up
[02:51]  * cody-somerville has removed him from the channel (#xubuntu) but not banned.
[02:52] <cody-somerville> \o_
[02:57] <jussio1> its 4 am and /me cant sleep
[02:58] <jussio1> :(
[03:19] <elkbuntu> nom nom nom. deep fried tofu puffs with teriyaki sauce
[03:20] <elkbuntu> nalioth, i found pre-made deep fried tofu at the asian grocery. so nom.
[03:21] <nalioth> elkbuntu: :)
[03:22] <elkbuntu> just needed to panfry them a few seconds to crisp them back up
[03:23] <nalioth> yeah, doing it the home made way takes a few days work
[03:28] <elkbuntu> smells like popcorn when they're refried
[03:32] <jdong> *cry* I'm hungry, there's no food in this desolate room... it's t-storming outside...
[03:32]  * elkbuntu dccs jdong some tofu
[03:32] <jdong> yay!
[03:33] <nalioth> when i prepare it, it tastes like french toast  MMMMMMMMM
[03:33] <elkbuntu> nalioth, that's a fair description
[03:33] <elkbuntu> it does taste bready
[03:35] <elkbuntu> i had to laugh at the 'fish tofu' ... fake tofu ... lol at the irony
[03:36] <nalioth> sounds yucky
[03:36] <elkbuntu> yeah
[03:47] <elkbuntu> no wikipedia article about it though
[03:57] <nalioth> i'm surprised
[03:57] <nalioth> there are probably metric boatloads in the .cn or .jp wikipedias
[04:17] <elkbuntu> nalioth, no doubt, but my chinese and japanese fluency is quite dubious
[04:23] <nalioth> wonder what it'd look like run through google translate . . .
[04:23] <nalioth> probably a bad idea
[07:54] <jussi01> Oooh, Madpilot is here!  :D
[15:40] <Myrtti> ♥
[15:41] <jussi01> Damn, why i didnt do this before I dont know,,,
[15:42] <Myrtti> jussi01: did you see my setup already?
[15:42] <Myrtti> http://flickr.com/photos/myrtti/2833590285/
[15:42] <Myrtti> ♥
[15:46] <Myrtti> my sister is great
[15:47] <Myrtti> she works in a cafeteria and since she knows I'm in a bit of a tight situation, she has been freezing leftover foods for me into margarine boxes ♥
[15:51] <jussi01> Myrtti: nice!!
[15:51] <Myrtti> it is ♥
[15:52] <Pici> mmm.. food
[15:53] <Myrtti> anyways, am off.
[15:53] <Myrtti> tatah
[15:53] <Pici> byes!
[16:23] <bazhang> yell0w, how may we help you
[16:24] <yell0w> bazhang: i'd like to set the topic on #ubuntu-vn and the op's been gone for years. is it possible to have it drop and reregistered or somethiing ?
[16:25] <yell0w> i talked to Dave2 and he said to check here
[16:25] <bazhang> yell0w, Dave2 from #freenode ?
[16:26] <yell0w> yes
[16:28] <bazhang> yell0w, I see that there are two issues here; one is to re-register the channel, and the other is get yourself op privs for that channel. surprised freenode staff would send you here as normally #ubuntu-irc is for this
[16:28] <yell0w> oh
[16:29]  * Myrtti larts Dave2
[16:29] <Dave2> Bah, sorry, I was thinking #ubuntu-irc, typed #ubuntu-ops.
[16:29] <bazhang> heh
[16:30]  * Dave2 clearly needs more tea.
[16:30] <yell0w> or coffee
[16:30] <yell0w> :D
[17:32] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[17:33] <Tm_T> meh
[17:35] <Myrtti> exactly
[18:02] <bazhang> @bansearch fujisan
[18:05] <nalioth> @bansearch nalioth
[18:12]  * nalioth pokes the bot
[18:26] <bazhang> orgthingy in -ot
[18:53] <jussi01> @bansearch nalioth
[18:54] <jussi01> nor did I expect any...
[18:54] <Myrtti> how could that nick have entered #ubuntu?
[18:55] <tritium> Myrtti: the one that just attempted the DCC exploit?
[18:55] <Myrtti> yeah
[18:55] <tritium> Do we have nick filtering in place now?
[18:57] <ompaul> Ubuntu 7.04 installs multimedia codecs automatically. For older versions of Ubuntu, or if you can't use the automatic installer, see https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - For multimedia applications, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultimediaApplications
[18:57] <ompaul> hmm
[18:57] <jussi01> hrm, we ought to fix that
[18:57] <Myrtti> tritium: I think we used to
[18:57] <Myrtti> tritium: atleast profane idents have been filtered off
[18:57] <ompaul> jussi01, I was looking for something else
[18:58] <ompaul> !recording
[18:58] <ompaul> !video
[18:58] <ompaul> no
[18:58] <jussi01> ompaul: what?
[18:58] <ompaul> I want video recording ;-)
[18:58] <ompaul> editing
[18:58] <Myrtti> !search pitivi
[18:58] <jussi01> !cinelerra
[18:58] <Myrtti> !search cinelerra
[18:58] <Myrtti> !search kino
 Found: youtube sound, piracy, dvd, video players, vesa, fixvideoresolution, players, video, binarydriver, x
[18:59] <tritium> Myrtti: I didn't know...
[19:00] <jussi01> !search movie
[19:00] <jussi01> heh
[19:02] <ompaul> !pronounce
[19:02] <ompaul> arrrrrrrr
[19:03] <ompaul> !-pronounce
[19:03] <jussi01> !search kdenlive
[19:03] <jussi01> Im sure there used to be one...
[19:05] <jussi01> !search studio
[19:22] <ompaul> http://cvs.cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.php#ubuntu
[19:22] <ompaul> !cineleera
[19:22] <jussi01> !cinelerra
[19:22] <ompaul> ahh tahts the one
[19:22] <ompaul> asd asdhnae smelling is bad
[19:22] <jussi01> 2 r's
[19:23] <ompaul> typrng is worster
[19:23] <jussi01> hehe
[19:51] <Myrtti> ungh
[20:19] <Seeker`> ungh?
[20:19] <jussi01> Seeker`: its a little like: mrgh
[20:21] <Seeker`> I know that
[20:21] <Seeker`> I was wondering what it was for
[20:21] <jussi01> oh
[20:22] <Myrtti> -women had a visitor "who wanted to learn English"
[20:55] <Myrtti> oy. I've got really surrealistic feeling
[21:12] <Myrtti> how genious
[21:12] <Myrtti> he was told that -women isn't about teaching English and he left
[21:13] <Myrtti> now he came back, had changed his nick to "margeBlue" but ident and hostname are still the same
[21:13] <Myrtti> ingenious, even