[02:26] <smspillaz|zzz> fta: you need to ping me at times that aren't 1AM
[02:28] <smspillaz|zzz> like now :)
[02:39] <djtorca> I have removed Evolution Mail as I use Thunderbird. I am unable to set it as my preferred email client and hence the Dash icon is inactive? How to fix?
[07:42] <didrocks> good morning
[07:57] <AndreaAzzarone> didrocks, good morning :)
[07:57] <didrocks> hey AndreaAzzarone! how are you?
[07:58] <AndreaAzzarone> didrocks, fine thanks... what about you?
[07:59] <didrocks> AndreaAzzarone: I'm very good, thanks! beautiful weather there ;)
[08:00] <AndreaAzzarone> didrocks, spring has arrived also in Italy! :)
[08:01] <didrocks> heh, *finally*… long winter :)
[08:02] <AndreaAzzarone> didrocks, wintes is good for hacking! :)
[08:04] <DaveDavenport> stefano-palazzo: blekko?
[08:09] <stefano-palazzo> DaveDavenport, sorry, I hit tab to fast - that message was for someone else
[08:10] <didrocks> Hum, jono's photo for me is so close to reality :)
[08:11] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:14] <MacSlow> good morning everybody
[10:20] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle,
[10:20] <stefano-palazzo> Sorry I often miss things in IRC, ping me when you're around
[10:21] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, hi
[10:22] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, hey :-)
[10:23] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I'm experiencing a Lens bug. When it's launched at startup it only gets/displays half the results. Have you seen this?
[10:23] <stefano-palazzo> what results are missing? a specific group or category or something like that?
[10:25] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, half the results, no matter the group.
[10:25] <stefano-palazzo> Interesting, no I've not seen that before.
[10:26] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, jcastro told me you had something similar in your Lens because it was "starting too fast". I'm trying to find the workaround in your code, without success.
[10:27] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, so, I suppose there is a timeout, when the callback is ignored and no more results are displayed, it could depend on the system load (which is very high when you're just starting unity)
[10:27] <stefano-palazzo> Are you flushing the model-queue somewhere in your code?
[10:28] <davidcalle> Yes
[10:28] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, sorry, in that case, I've no idea what's causing it
[10:29] <davidcalle> I'm realizing I didn't try to launch it at startup since I'm flushing the model queue... :-)
[10:29] <stefano-palazzo> heh
[10:30] <davidcalle> About Blekko, I'm going to play with it tonight. It might be interesting.
[10:30] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, nice, please let me know how that goes - I'm particularly interested in the speed, i.e. response-time
[10:31] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, me too, as I'm trying to cross check results with several API calls.
[10:32] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, sure, I'll keep you informed.
[10:33] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, do you have a problem with filtering google results like "%s site:wikipedia.org"?
[10:33] <stefano-palazzo> There's a comment in your code suggesting that's an issue
[10:34] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, the issue is Wikipedia. It has lots of images on single pages and it's hard to get the good one with a Google search.
[10:34] <stefano-palazzo> Oh right, I forgot you only get a few results back
[10:35] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, site:somesite.org is not a problem, it works really welll, I'm doing it for OpenLibrary.
[10:35] <stefano-palazzo> yeah, using google is really, really nice
[10:36] <stefano-palazzo> too bad their new API is astronomically expensive
[10:36] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, that's why I have good hopes for Blekko.
[10:36] <stefano-palazzo> have you already looked at their terms of service?
[10:37] <stefano-palazzo> jorge gave me a link, where it said something along the lines of "the ToS prohibits you from doing anything interesting"
[10:39] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, they sent me a pdf doc, I will read it tonight, but the mail summarized it : "don't do more than a call per second".
[10:39] <stefano-palazzo> oh
[10:40] <stefano-palazzo> thanks for taking the time to tell me all this, I'm looking forward to your verdict :)
[10:42] <davidcalle> Though, I'm thinking of adding a Dash item "Search powered by SomeCompany" at the end of the results by default.
[10:42] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, I bet we're not the only people who are going to run into the problem of attribution, maybe it'd be a good idea to request a feature
[10:43] <stefano-palazzo> Something like, an arbitrary image that you can put in the lower left of the dash
[10:43] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, right.
[10:43] <stefano-palazzo> I can post something about it to the ayatana mailing list
[10:44] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, someone asked me if there was a way to bookmark interesting searches. This could be another nice feature.
[10:44] <stefano-palazzo> yes that's a nice idea
[10:45] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, I'm doing these special searches for things I expect to be important. So, if you type "chat", it immediately gives you an icon for the Ask Ubuntu chat, similarly you can type "au" or "askubuntu" and hit enter, to go to the main site
[10:46] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I've seen it, it's clever.
[10:49] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, I'm still a bit  worried about something: it's the uncertainty of the UX. When you click a Dash result, you don't really know what to expect, at least on my Lens. I've added a "Free Books" section so you can be sure to "have a book to read when you click", but I feel that's not enough.
[10:51] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, that's not a big problem for me, I always have much more results than I can display.
[10:51] <stefano-palazzo> the free books thing is a brilliant idea!
[10:51] <vish> jcastro: seen the Shell videos where they introduce new features? we could do something similar with didrocks or DBO or njpatel or bitesizers , for new Unity features , and make them movie stars ;)
[10:52] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, thanks to Google, the API is very limited in term of things to ask, but at least, they have that. :-)
[10:53] <stefano-palazzo> davidcalle, I suppose you're going to get some feedback about it sooner or later, I would hypothesise that people are used to this uncertainty, as it occurs all over the web
[10:53] <stefano-palazzo> You never really know what's behind any link
[10:53] <davidcalle> stefano-palazzo, well, this shouldn't happen :b
[10:54] <stefano-palazzo> true
[10:56] <davidcalle> I hope Blekko will give me a way to display some featured searches when the Lens is opened: like 50's Science Fiction or Italian Poetry. It's still clunky with Google.
[10:56] <fta> smspillaz|zzz, hi
[10:56] <fta> smspillaz|zzz, eheh, your "like now" was 3am for me
[11:25] <smspillaz|zzz> fta: ok, now is a good time :)
[11:26] <smspillaz|zzz> fta: except that if it is a reminder to fix broken apps like xterm, just note that I need to work on slightly more important things right now but it *is* on my agenda
[11:27] <fta> smspillaz|zzz, just wanted an update on this one. now, i have it, thanks
[11:34] <mpt> didrocks, hi, do you know why Mumble ended up on the notification area whitelist?
[11:36] <didrocks> mpt: was request in bug #732682
[11:36] <didrocks> requested*
[11:37] <mpt> thanks didrocks
[11:37] <didrocks> yw :)
[12:14] <Guest61007> I would like to know how to install unity on ubuntu 11.04
[12:14] <Guest61007> I tried to add ppa:unity/ppa and then install with apt-get install unity
[12:15] <Guest61007> but no results
[12:17] <stefano-palazzo> Guest61007, this isn't the right place to ask for support, have a look at #ubuntu on this IRC server, the ubuntu forums at http://http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> mpt - i keep getting firefox bugs about not being able to right-click on bookmark entries in the menus and selecting "open in new tab" or "open in new window" - i'm not sure how i should respond to these
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> (i know it's not supported, but i guess having context menus in menus is undesirable isn't it?)
[12:59] <mpt> hmmm
[12:59] <mpt> chrisccoulson, that seems like a good use case for modifier keys on menu items
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> mpt - bug 748850 for example
[12:59] <mpt> e.g. if you can Ctrl click on a link in a Web page, you should be able to Ctrl click on a bookmark in the menu
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> that would probably be ok
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> mpt - would you mind commenting on that bug?
[13:01] <mpt> sure
[13:02] <chrisccoulson> mpt - in fact, ctrl+click already does that in the firefox native menus
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> we'd need to plumb that in to unity though
[13:03] <chrisccoulson> and shift+click opens in new window :)
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> mpt - thanks for the comment
[13:50] <jcastro> didrocks: so what's up with super-s
[13:50] <didrocks> jcastro: what do you mean?
[13:50] <jcastro> is it supposed to be what it is?
[13:51] <jcastro> people are asking how to get to the shutdown menu, which used to be super s
[13:51] <didrocks> for workspace? right
[13:51] <jcastro> now it's something else
[13:51] <jcastro> er, not bound to anything at all
[13:51] <didrocks> it's for workspace mode, I referenced the bug on the changelog when doing the change
[13:52] <jcastro> right, but are we going to make a shortcut to the session menu?
[13:52] <didrocks> I don't know, it's more on kenvandine's plan, I really have no time to follow the indicators TBH
[13:53] <jcastro> ah ok, ta
[13:53] <didrocks> still dealing with last minute requests changing bunch of code…
[13:53] <jcastro> kenvandine: are we going to have a keyboard shortcut for the session menu?
[13:53] <jcastro> didrocks: keep rocking!
[13:54]  * kenvandine perks up
[13:54] <kenvandine> i thought we did!
[13:54] <kenvandine> like last cycle...
[13:54] <kenvandine> oh... did that keyboard shortcut get hi-jacked?
[13:55] <jcastro> yes
[13:55] <jcastro> it was super-s
[13:57] <kenvandine> jcastro, is there a bug filed for this?
[13:57] <jcastro> not sure
[13:57] <jcastro> I can look
[13:57] <kenvandine> i am looking
[13:57] <jcastro> where would someone report that?
[13:58] <jcastro> kenvandine: F10-left arrow. :)
[13:58] <jcastro> but still ....
[13:59] <kenvandine> yeah... we need to talk about that
[14:00] <kenvandine> if it was super-s in maverick
[14:01] <jcastro> kenvandine: indeed
[14:02] <didrocks> bug #723273
[14:02] <jcastro> kenvandine: njpatel what do you think?
[14:02] <didrocks> look at the conversation and all related bug
[14:02] <didrocks> I already argued on that
[14:02] <kenvandine> didrocks, yeah, reading that
[14:03] <jcastro> so looks like the spec says one thing
[14:03] <jcastro> and we have something else
[14:03] <didrocks> hum?
[14:04] <kenvandine> well, ctrl-alt-del  works
[14:04] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionMenu says super-s
[14:04] <kenvandine> doesn't let you logout
[14:04] <kenvandine> but lets you shutdown, restart, and suspend
[14:04] <jcastro> oh, heh, close
[14:05] <jcastro> and you could say, if you want to suspend just close the lid.
[14:05] <jcastro> but I don't buy that. :)
[14:07] <jcastro> kenvandine: who in design is in charge of keyboard shortcuts?
[14:07] <jcastro> ok this doesn't make sense
[14:07] <jcastro> we moved super-e to super-s
[14:07] <jcastro> what is now super-s should be super-e - we shipped that way for like 2 years
[14:07] <jcastro> and super-s should be the session menu right?
[14:08] <kenvandine> JohnLea_ i think
[14:09] <jcastro> JohnLea_: around?
[14:09] <jcastro> kenvandine: ok so if we just assign something to the session menu that should be fine right?
[14:09] <jcastro> and if not, f10->left arrow seems good enough to me
[14:09] <kenvandine> if people agree to it
[14:09] <kenvandine> and ctrl-alt-del
[14:10] <kenvandine> works for most cases
[14:10]  * jcastro nods
[14:10] <kenvandine> getting people to agree on keybindings == hard
[14:10] <jcastro> well, I was hoping JohnLea_ would just tell us
[14:10] <kenvandine> just fyi :)
[14:10] <kenvandine> jcastro, that is fine too
[14:12] <om26er> good evening lamalex, How are you?
[14:18] <lamalex> hi om26er
[14:18] <lamalex> i'm really good this morning
[14:19] <om26er> lamalex, glad to hear ;)
[14:20] <JohnLea_> jcastro, kenvandine; bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/723273 takes prescience over session menu spec
[14:21] <jcastro> JohnLea_: ok, so super-s definately belongs where it is now
[14:22] <jcastro> so we're just missing a shortcut to the sessionmenu, do we want one or do we go with f10->left arrow and ctrl-alt-del as workaround?
[14:22] <kamstrup> didrocks: my French friend. I need your domain expertise in the French language!
[14:22] <didrocks> kamstrup: bien sûr! :)
[14:22] <kamstrup> didrocks: so I have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/746450
[14:23] <kamstrup> didrocks: Xapian doesn't seem good at handling this out of the box
[14:23] <kamstrup> didrocks: so I am considering a hack, adding a custom stemmer that removes prefix letters from words like d'argent
[14:24] <kamstrup> making it just argent - only in the index of course (not user visible)
[14:24] <kamstrup> that way the queries d'argent and argent would both match d'argent
[14:25] <kamstrup> but would the rule CHAR APOSTROPHE WORD --> WORD  screw up something else in french?
[14:25] <didrocks> kamstrup: make sense, as d' or l' is just like "du, le la les", they are meaningless
[14:25] <aruiz> didrocks, I'm trying to build the compiz bzr branch and the CMakeLists.txt points to unity/unity_window_decorator as a subdir, however the directory doesn't exist
[14:25] <aruiz> didrocks, am I missing something?
[14:25] <kamstrup> aruiz: you're native spanish speaker right?
[14:25] <aruiz> kamstrup, yup
[14:25] <didrocks> aruiz: look at our packages, we have patches in debian/patches/
[14:25] <aruiz> didrocks, cheers
[14:26] <didrocks> kamstrup: so yeah, sounds reasonable to me :)
[14:26] <aruiz> kamstrup, why?
[14:26] <kamstrup> aruiz: I guess you use apostrophes to join words in spanish as well?
[14:26] <aruiz> no we don't
[14:26] <kamstrup> phew
[14:26] <kamstrup> aruiz: i love spanish then :-D
[14:26] <aruiz> hah
[14:26] <aruiz> how come?
[14:26] <kamstrup> aruiz: ^^ my discussion woith didrocks
[14:26] <kamstrup> aruiz: In french ppl expect the query "argent" to match "d'argent"
[14:27] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, you mean, you don't like language with ' ? ;=
[14:27] <jcastro> didrocks: njpatel: also have a new person submit code if you guys wanna look at that
[14:27] <kamstrup> didrocks: hehe almost
[14:27] <aruiz> kamstrup, french is weird
[14:27] <kamstrup> didrocks, aruiz: the danger here may be English where they use apostrophes in odd places
[14:28] <didrocks> kamstrup: :p so l' is just like "le" (==the)  but there is a vowel starting the word after it ;)
[14:28] <didrocks> same for d' -> de, and so on…
[14:28] <kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, I have some very bassic French knowledge
[14:29] <kamstrup> didrocks: afaics French won't break under my rule, but maybe other languages
[14:29] <kamstrup> Any Dutch speakers here?
[14:30] <didrocks> heh, kamstrup is looking for people ;)
[14:31] <kamstrup> mhr3: ! so you speak Czech and Slovak
[14:32] <kamstrup> mhr3: can you look at my comment #1 on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/746450 and tell me if that'll break some apostrophe usage in any of those languages?
[14:33] <JanC> kamstrup: I speak dutch
[14:34] <kamstrup> JanC: My saviour!
[14:34] <kamstrup> JanC: any comment on the question I just asked mhr3 ^^?
[14:34] <kamstrup> (for Dutch of course :-D)
[14:35] <didrocks> "hunting citizen of the world"
[14:36] <didrocks> should blog about that :)
[14:43] <Kaleo> didrocks: I need your help :)
[14:43] <Kaleo> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/750058
[14:43] <Kaleo> didrocks: comment #1 indicates the fix is very very simple :)
[14:43] <didrocks> Kaleo: uno memento :)
[14:43] <Kaleo> didrocks: un ;)
[14:44] <Kaleo> didrocks: momento ;)
[14:44] <Kaleo> didrocks: whatever :)
[14:44] <Kaleo> didrocks: thans :)
[14:44] <Kaleo> thanks*
[14:46] <lamalex> didrocks, did you run your script?
[14:46] <didrocks> lamalex: yes
[14:46] <didrocks> Kaleo: ok, looking :)
[14:46] <lamalex> didrocks,  i really need it to run twice a day or something. it's really disheartening to have it skyrocket like it does when you run it less frequently
[14:46] <didrocks> lamalex: I have the usual list of "status to sync manually"
[14:46] <lamalex> and now i have a backlog of 170 bugs i have to try and burn through
[14:47] <didrocks> lamalex: I didn't run it yesterday because you didn't answer if it needs to be run or not
[14:47] <lamalex> didrocks, can i run it myself?
[14:47] <didrocks> the backlog wasn't 0 anyway
[14:47] <didrocks> lamalex: I prefer to target and that we put somewhere for automatic checking
[14:47] <didrocks> there is still some web errors I have to deal manually
[14:48] <didrocks> Kaleo: ok, I'll check with Laney, he's uploading and syncing it
[14:48] <didrocks> Kaleo: to not diverge from debian
[14:49] <JanC> kamstrup: currently the only possible issue I find in Dutch is things like "m'n" and "d'r", but I'm still thinking
[14:49] <Kaleo> didrocks: thanks a lot
[14:49] <Kaleo> didrocks: just for info, that bug breaks Unity 2D's dash
[14:50] <didrocks> breaks? how? :)
[14:50] <Kaleo> didrocks: the home page basically misses Banshee
[14:50] <kamstrup> JanC: in cases like that I guess we should just leave the word as is, right?
[14:50] <didrocks> kamstrup: oh yeah, when you parse this
[14:51] <kamstrup> we'll index both the original and the "reduced" form
[14:54] <JanC> kamstrup: yes, and/or index them as they should be written formally (those forms are not official spelling AFAIK)
[14:55] <kamstrup> JanC: ok so it's not two words joined into one like in french, but one word contracted?
[14:55] <JanC> these two are
[14:56] <kamstrup> ok...
[14:56] <JanC> kamstrup: one other thing is if you use a possesive 's at the end of a 1-letter name (but that's a very uncommon corner case of course)
[14:56] <kamstrup> JanC: you have one letter names in Dutch?!
[14:56] <JanC> like in English: "X's manpage"
[14:56] <didrocks> kamstrup: uploaded
[14:56] <kamstrup> ah like that
[14:56] <kamstrup> didrocks: ?
[14:56] <JanC> company names could be 1 letter in theory  ;)
[14:57] <didrocks> Kaleo: fixed
[14:57] <didrocks> kamstrup: really, weechat should have a way to configure stop on completion, sorry! :)
[14:57] <kamstrup> JanC: hmmm the one-letter names is a good point indeed
[14:57] <kamstrup> didrocks: is the prefix char ever a CAPITAL letter in French or is it always lowercase
[14:58] <didrocks> kamstrup: ahah, interesting question ;)
[14:58] <kamstrup> I guess one could start a sentence with D'Argent or something?
[14:58] <didrocks> yeah, even if it doesn't really make sense
[14:59] <didrocks> (I see that you match É <-> é, nice! Only good OS does that!)
[14:59]  * kamstrup was just hoping the rule could be lowercase_char prefix word --> word, but it appears not
[14:59] <JanC> I found some others in Dutch: A'pen, A'dam, R'dam are short for Antwerpen, Amsterdam and Rotterdam
[14:59] <ogra_> hmm, am i supposed to have a calendar in the datetime indicator ?
[14:59] <JanC> so again not 2 words
[14:59] <kamstrup> JanC: ah blast
[15:00] <didrocks> ogra_: if evolution is installed, yeah
[15:00] <ogra_> didrocks, and if evolution isnt installed (like on all arm images)
[15:00] <didrocks> ogra_: then, ask to klattimer and tedg ;) I think it's stolen from evo
[15:01] <ogra_> hrm, that sucks
[15:01] <ogra_> the applet had it even without evo installed
[15:01] <klattimer> ogra_: you can see the calendar without having evo installed anymore
[15:01] <kamstrup> didrocks: we do? :-) I was actually just wondering how exactly xapian performed trnaliteration
[15:01] <kamstrup> transliteration even
[15:01] <ogra_> klattimer, thats a massive regression
[15:01] <JanC> I would also suggest you check african languages, some of them have extensive use of apostrophes IIRC
[15:01] <didrocks> kamstrup: sshhhhhhhh, just tell "yeah, we took that into account ;)"
[15:03] <tedg> ogra_, There was a bug.
[15:03] <kamstrup> didrocks: Ah, i missed your accent on the E. I actually meant whether É <-> é <-> E <-> e was working. Which I expect it doesn't
[15:03] <tedg> ogra_, Where if you didn't have evo there was no calendar
[15:03] <tedg> ogra_, It's fixed in trunk
[15:04] <tedg> ogra_, You'll still have the calendar, just no events.
[15:04] <ogra_> tedg, ah, great, thats what i wanted
[15:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: tbh, you should match é, è, ê <-> e
[15:04] <Kaleo> didrocks: you rock!!
[15:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: most of softwares are doing that in search
[15:04] <ogra_> i dont care about the events but having *a* calendar to look up dates is really a core feature for me
[15:04] <kamstrup> didrocks: I know. But xapian is not really fitted to do so out of the box... Had we used Lucene otoh.... Sweet bliss :-)
[15:05] <didrocks> kamstrup: just something to take into consideration for the future if we can merge the result to widespread the request or whatever :)
[15:05] <ogra_> tedg, hmm, though looking at natty-changes it appears in the latest changelog, shouldnt i have it already ?
[15:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: transliteration is not a simple thing. Fx. in Danish we have å <--> aa
[15:05] <didrocks> kamstrup: or build that into xapian so that we can have that with USC
[15:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: who care about weird languages? :p
[15:06] <didrocks> oupsss ;)
[15:06]  * didrocks runs…
[15:06] <JanC> I think the Unicode standard has transliteration tables or something like that?
[15:06] <tedg> ogra_, Hmm, I don't think it's gotten to Natty yet...  kenvandine?
[15:06] <didrocks> JanC: oh really? that would be sweet to build that into Xapian
[15:06] <ogra_> * Uninstalling Evolution removes calendar from clock applet (LP: #691953)
[15:06] <ogra_> 0.2.1-0ubuntu1
[15:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: I think xapian has already some bugs in debian about those?
[15:07] <kamstrup> didrocks: very likely
[15:07] <ogra_> (which is also what i have installed)
[15:07] <kamstrup> JanC: I think you're right
[15:07] <lamalex> dbarth_, i remember seeing some discussion about this a while ago, but i don't remember what the resolution was. https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/744565
[15:07] <JanC> OTOH transliteration is language-dependent, so I'm not 100% sure  ☺
[15:09] <kamstrup> JanC: it is, but you can apply some almost-always correct rule for a big range of the "simple" cases
[15:09] <kamstrup> fx Lucene has ASCIIFoldingFilter
[15:09] <JanC> kamstrup: http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/transliteration-guidelines  ☺
[15:09] <kenvandine> tedg, ogra_: not yet... but i am hoping we'll do an upload today
[15:10] <ogra_> kenvandine, weird changelog entry then :)
[15:10] <JanC> http://cldr.unicode.org/ --> Unicode Common Locale Data Repository
[15:10] <kenvandine> which changelog?
[15:10] <ogra_> thanks for the info though, looking forward to it
[15:11] <kenvandine> maybe i didn't read far enough back... :)
[15:11]  * kenvandine is in a meeting atm
[15:11] <kamstrup> JanC: yeah, and libicu has pretty comprehensive support for it as well
[15:11] <ogra_> kenvandine, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2011-March/010417.html
[15:12] <ogra_> kenvandine,  * Uninstalling Evolution removes calendar from clock applet (LP: #691953)
[15:12] <kenvandine> hummm
[15:13] <kenvandine> then it was in the upload, although i didn't test that specifically myself
[15:16] <kenvandine> ogra_, tedg: perhaps that was merged after you rolled the tarball?
[15:17] <tedg> kenvandine, ogra_, one was that it didn't work.  The new one is that it doesn't work at startup.  So if you had evolution and then removed it, we're still good.  Now, with the next release you could have never had Evolution and be okay.
[15:17] <tedg> kenvandine, ogra_, basically teh first fix was only half way.
[15:17] <ogra_> ah, perfect
[15:17] <kenvandine> ok
[15:17] <ogra_> i'm on armel here, and all our images fall into the last category
[15:18] <tedg> ogra_, You guys should fix that ;-)
[15:18] <ogra_> (we just install a mime handler for desktop-webmail on arm images)
[15:19] <ogra_> if evo learns to run in 512M without tearing down firefox at the same time we might consider fixing it
[15:19] <ogra_> ;)
[15:19] <tedg> ogra_, My phone now has 1GB of RAM... think bigger!
[15:19] <ogra_> we'll get there :)
[15:20] <ogra_> currently our low end is 512M, our average platform is 1G though
[15:20] <tedg> Okay, I'll revise: think average!  ;-)
[15:21] <ogra_> lol
[15:25] <JanC> Evolution should be split up into separate applications, that would be a start...
[15:49] <\sh> can someone explain how to get the old "Places -> Bookmarks" back to action with Unity ? Or is there a new way to add e.g. Network SSH Server Bookmarks somehow to the launcher?
[15:54] <\sh> didrocks: bug #621884 reappeared in 3.8.2-0ubuntu1
[15:55] <didrocks> \sh: this is for kamstrup :)
[15:56] <\sh> didrocks: should I set it to new or incomplete for the three projects/packages?
[15:57] <didrocks> \sh: wait for kamstrup first, he'll debug it
[15:57] <\sh> k
[15:59] <\sh> btw...good work on unity..dist-upgraded my main workstation today, no breaks even dual window setup is working...the only glitch is how to disable the second panel on the second display...or at least autohide it or let the window (in this case rdesktop) overlap the panel
[16:00] <didrocks> nice to know! ;) yeah, that happens
[16:06] <lamalex> om26er, cdbs, there are an assload of new unity bugs- what are you guys currently working on?
[16:07] <om26er> lamalex, incompletes
[16:08] <om26er> i looked into the NEW queue a few hours ago, the incompletes(with response) queue is nearly at end so will start on NEW after that, lamalex
[16:09] <lamalex> oh awesome!!
[16:09] <lamalex> you rule!
[16:14] <jcastro> you know what jason noticed on the compiz bugs
[16:14] <jcastro> people were out of date
[16:14] <jcastro> and the system lets them report bugs anyway
[16:15] <jcastro> so they fixed a ton of  crashers with 3.8.2
[16:15] <jcastro> and then over the weekend got a bunch of  dupes for bugs that were fixed already
[16:16] <jcastro> it would be cool if apport could say "ok so your unity crashed but you're behind, please update and then holla at me if it crashes" kind of thing
[16:16] <kenvandine> jcastro, i thought it did
[16:17] <jcastro> are we sure if it does or not?
[16:17] <jcastro> hmm, UDS question I guess
[16:18] <\sh> jcastro: http://www.piware.de/2011/03/new-apport-feature-custom-bug-duplicate-identification/
[16:18] <om26er> jcastro, the same seems to be happening for nux crashers
[16:19] <om26er> crashes fixed in nux 0.9.38 and people are still reporting them for 0.9.36
[16:20] <jcastro> right
[16:20] <jcastro> so basically, those just tie you guys up with junk
[16:26] <om26er> didrocks, it seems unity --reset is broken(?) on two different machines I have seen unity --reset disabled unity plugin and returned only the wallpaper
[16:27] <mhr3> kamstrup, no worries there are no apostrophes in czech nor slovak :)
[16:27] <didrocks> om26er: oh really? I'll give it a try, if you relaunch compiz then, what happens?
[16:29] <om26er> didrocks, compiz runs but not unity, have to re-enable the plugin in ccsm
[16:29] <om26er> this happens in 'Desktop' session
[16:30] <didrocks> om26er: "Desktop" as Ubuntu session, the one which runs unity, right?
[16:30] <om26er> yes
[16:33] <didrocks> that's really weird, I'll give it a try
[16:33] <didrocks> but that shouldn't change
[16:45] <kenvandine> kamstrup, i figured out that startup problem with the gwibber lens
[16:46] <kenvandine> if it blew up trying to get a connect to gwibber over dbus, it never setup the sections model completely
[16:46] <kenvandine> or it did but whatever on the other end in unity didn't get the changes...
[16:47] <kenvandine> kamstrup, so it only broke if you tried to open the lens before the gwibber-service was running
[16:47] <kenvandine> i added a bunch of error handling code and fixed all that up
[16:49] <kamstrup> kenvandine: haha, nice detective work :-)
[17:26] <jcastro> didrocks: did we ever hook up installing ccsm to about:config?
[18:55] <cdbs> lamalex: hey there! I am actually working on fixing bugs today, will be back to triaging tomorrow
[18:55] <lamalex> ok
[19:04] <zniavre> good evening
[19:04] <zniavre> how to clean the alt+f2 history please ?
[19:08] <fta> dbarth_, yt?
[19:09] <didrocks> zniavre: we use the same than gnome-panel, it's a gconf key (so with gconf-editor): /apps/gnome-settings/gnome-panel/history-gnome-run
[19:13] <lamalex> cdbs, what are you working on fixing?
[19:26] <om26er> lamalex, unity's NEW queue have been touched but tomorrow i'll try to tackle most of it.
[19:26] <zniavre> didrocks,  thank you (i did not know the trick for gnome-panel)
[19:27] <lamalex> om26er, yeah  im going to keep working on new for the rest of today
[19:27] <lamalex> thanks for rocking SO hard om26er
[19:28] <om26er> lamalex, so i'd be going to bed now ;)
[19:28] <om26er> thank you lamalex
[19:29] <lamalex> goodnight
[19:56] <cdbs> lamalex: There was 1 bug in unity-place-applications about apt: urls, working on it right now
[19:56] <cdbs> lamalex: as well as:
[19:56] <cdbs> bug #741699
[19:57] <cdbs> lamalex: tomorrow I'll work fully on the new queue, as well as I'll try tackling 20-30 bugs by today night itself
[20:56] <cdbs> jaytaoko: Hi, could you help me in fixing a bug? Looks like nux' Geometry structure isn't well-documented, and I am unable to get whether nux::BaseWindow's OnMouseDownOutsideOfView gives X and Y values offset from the start of the screen or offset from the beginning of the BaseWindow itself
[20:57] <cdbs> I am trying to fix bug #741699
[21:08] <jaytaoko> cdbs: hello
[21:08] <cdbs> hi jaytaoko
[21:09] <cdbs> jaytaoko: I just want to know whether the X and Y values provided by OnMouseDownOutsideOfView are offset from the beginning of screen or from beginning of BaseWindow itself
[21:09] <cdbs> I got lost in the Nux source code while searching and the docs aren't helpful
[21:09] <jaytaoko> cdbs: let me check that for you...
[21:09] <cdbs> thanks
[21:15] <jaytaoko> cdbs: if signal OnMouseDownOutsideOfView is emitted from the an area inside a BaseWindow, then  (X,Y) correspond to the position of the mouse inside the BaseWindow
[21:15] <cdbs> jaytaoko: but,, if its outside?
[21:15] <cdbs> jaytaoko: let me explain the scenario
[21:15] <cdbs> jaytaoko: Here I am dealing with the Dash
[21:16] <cdbs> jaytaoko: I want to detect in the  OnMouseDownOutsideOfView whether the click area is inside the Launcher or not. The BaseWindow here is the Dash
[21:17] <cdbs> The launcher is behind the dash in such a case
[21:17] <cdbs> and this doesn't seem architecturally possible with nux
[21:18] <jaytaoko> cdbs: in the case of the Dash (which is a BaseWindow), the (X, Y) correspond to the position on the screen
[21:18] <cdbs> jaytaoko: okay, then. But with that respect I don't understand what the last 2 arguments mean in this contructor:
[21:18] <cdbs> nux::Geometry geo (_monitor_rect.x, _monitor_rect.y, _launcher_size, PANEL_HEIGHT)
[21:18] <cdbs> again not explained in the docs at all
[21:19] <cdbs> looks like the Geometry class isn't in the docs
[21:19] <jaytaoko> cdbs: so if you receive a signal OnMouseDownOutsideOfView from the Dash BaseWindow, (X, Y) are relative to the top left corner of the screen
[21:19] <jaytaoko> cdbs: the Geometry class is a typedef of the Rect class
[21:20] <jaytaoko> cdbs: the last 2 arguments are the width and height of the rectangle
[21:21] <jaytaoko> cdbs: check this file in NuxCore\Rect.h
[21:21] <cdbs> :O
[21:21] <cdbs> jaytaoko: ah thanks, now I get it completely
[21:21] <cdbs> thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks
[21:21] <jaytaoko> cdbs: no problem, sorry about the confusion
[21:21] <cdbs> jaytaoko: no probs, I know writing docs is a boring job ;)
[21:21] <jaytaoko> cdbs: I am rewriting some docs that will be made available shortly
[21:42] <coz_>  good day to all
[22:45] <didrocks> jono: re your post yesterday: when did I give you my photo? :-)
[22:45] <jono> didrocks, LOL!
[22:45] <jono> :-)
[22:45] <didrocks> :-)


[20:22] <grantbow> MarkDude: is the Pi running Ubuntu?
[20:25] <bkerensa> grantbow: Ubuntu does support the Pi
[20:25] <bkerensa> well not any supported releases of Ubuntu anyways
[20:25] <bkerensa> The arm chip on the Pi is too old
[20:33]  * grantbow nods
[22:26] <philipballew> pleia2, Must be nice to see your home state in the news!
[22:26] <philipballew> http://www.kvue.com/news/201427871.html
[22:26] <darthrobot> Title: [Georgia high school to host first integrated prom | kvue.com Austin]
[22:28] <pleia2> philipballew: haha, I only lived there for like 18 months :)
[22:29]  * pleia2 has too many home states
[22:30] <philipballew> that could be nice!
[22:30]  * philipballew is unsure where to call home these days
[23:11] <raevol> mounting remote folders by ssh in nautilus
[23:11] <raevol> i love linux
[23:13] <philipballew> raevol, it sure is easy sometimes
[23:13] <raevol> yea
[23:14] <raevol> you know what is strange
[23:14] <raevol> so our router doesn't have QoS
[23:14] <raevol> so anything that wants to shut it down basically can, with too much traffic
[23:14] <raevol> but consistently that is the mac computers on our network
[23:15] <raevol> and i have no idea why...
[23:15] <raevol> well, i mean it's when they run system updates
[23:15] <raevol> but what is it about mac system update traffic that just houses a network?
[23:24] <raevol> reading about how to set up a local apt-mirror
[23:25] <raevol> oh linux
[23:25] <raevol> you so nutty
[23:41] <philipballew> linux is weird


[00:05] <blahdeblah> jiffe: maas keeps a local cache of the Ubuntu cloud images
[00:05] <blahdeblah> There's also a special image used just for the commissioning process, which comes from http://images.maas.io/ephemeral-v2/releases/
[00:59] <jiffe> is there a way for me to build a single up machine and deploy that machine's content to other machines?
[01:05] <blahdeblah> yes, you can upload your own images
[01:06] <blahdeblah> but as I understand it, making that image work everywhere is your problem, not MAAS'
[01:06] <blahdeblah> i.e. it handles the deployment part, but not necessarily the image creation part
[01:06] <blahdeblah> Others more qualified than I probably should be consulted before taking my word on the above. :-)
[10:44] <mup> Bug #1647009 changed: API/CLI returning non-json output <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647009>
[11:14] <mup> Bug #1647315 opened: MAAS CLI outputs to stdout even when there is an error <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647315>
[16:35] <mup> Bug #1637256 opened: MaaS might disrupt network connectivity by probing DHCP services <MAAS:New> <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637256>
[17:24] <mup> Bug #1646847 opened: Multi interface issue while charm deployed on centos image <cloud-images:New> <juju:Incomplete> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646847>
[17:37] <xplatform12> I am having an issue deploying centos 7 with maas 2.1.1. There is a bug report "1644229" which appears to be related to the issue I am having. Does anyone know the status of this issue?
[17:39] <xplatform12> We are using Dell R710's, but the bug report is related to R610's, but appears to be the same issue reported with the R610's.
[18:14] <kiko> bug 1644229
[18:14]  * kiko pokes mup
[18:14] <kiko> mup, bug 1644229
[18:14] <mup> kiko: Bug #1644229: MAAS 2.1.1 - Curtin - Failed to deploy CentOS7 <curtin:Incomplete> <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644229>
[18:15] <kiko> xplatform12, are you getting a traceback? if so it would really help to include that in the bug report
[18:29] <kiko> xplatform12, the thing I don't know is the answer to this:
[18:29] <kiko> when a deployment fails, does the failure log get shipped back to MAAS?
[18:30] <kiko> roaksoax or someone on the team should know this
[18:36] <pmatulis> kiko, i suggest http://docs.ubuntu.com/maas/2.1/en/troubleshoot-faq ; see 'Node deployment fails'
[18:37] <kiko> thanks pmatulis


[06:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:20] <knightw0rk> morning peepz
[07:20] <knightw0rk> hey brobostigon
[07:24] <brobostigon> hi knightw0rk
[07:27] <knightw0rk> how is it hanging today man
[07:31] <brobostigon> starting to write a business plan, doing some basic viability mathematics.
[07:32] <knightw0rk> aha going into business for yourself ?
[07:33] <brobostigon> maybe, hence i am calculating possible viability.
[07:57] <brobostigon> knightw0rk: i just did a calculation using the basis of average commercial property cost and other costs and need ro run a profit of £2016 to cover my basic costs.
[07:57] <brobostigon> per month*
[07:59] <knightw0rk> I know the dril :) this is your 'flotation rate'
[08:00] <brobostigon> yes, just to keep myself alive.
[08:00] <brobostigon> :)
[08:14] <knightw0rk> switching inbetween contracts , might be home for a couple of weeks so that "flotation rate" has been very much on my mind lately
[08:20] <brobostigon> i can imagine.
[08:26] <knightw0rk> We have some buffer and we also have our own clients for who we have running projects
[08:26] <brobostigon> thats good.
[08:29] <knightw0rk> yeah , but stil, a bit nervous
[08:31] <brobostigon> understandable.
[08:40] <brobostigon> i recalculated it, its infact around £2800pm.
[09:30] <zmoylan-pi> first world problems... https://scontent.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36189272_1909010842498120_9034126938750320640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeF6MG2an2fxZcHf9ZxLKb2-0hH8jZp7sdghIini-kyK1TJg8qwXQYCIenupe6PV9AMuLffiEJ-Hb8Biy8nc7Iqwsvv5l2yk8HlzM0NX4_pLIg&oh=bf59772a0cbbb9235f2c0bc7e9891d89&oe=5BB27035
[14:26] <Riddell> popey: did you have an issue with the slimbook?
[17:35] <popey> Riddell: nothing significant, no. :)
[17:35] <popey> It's a great machine
[17:36] <popey> The only oddity was that it seemed to ship by default with power management off and wifi off. So when I close the lid, the battery died (it didnt suspend)
[17:45] <marshmn> hi all; anyone here use Google's Compute Engine etc?
[17:46] <marshmn> today it's not letting me boot my VMs saying that resources aren't available in my zone; but even trying another zone I'm getting the same message
[17:46] <marshmn> just wondering if others are having issues today too
[17:47] <marshmn> I'm not that familiar with Google Cloud TBH - I use AWS for most things like this
[18:07] <Riddell> popey: did you have to do anything to fix that?
[18:07] <popey> Riddell: click the blue box to enable wifi, click the blue box to enable power management :)
[18:07] <popey> So I consider it 50% pilot error ;)
[18:07] <popey> and 50% odd defaults
[18:08] <popey> I think the battery died 3 times with the lid shut before I realised what was happening.
[18:08] <popey> The slimbook 2 has a sleep (power) light on the keyboard, so invisible when the lid is shut, which is bizarro design, but not much slimbook can do
[18:08] <Riddell> I've reinstalled my slimbook 2 loads of time and never had that issue
[18:09] <Riddell> I wonder where it picked that up from
[18:09] <popey> odd, this was as delivered
[18:09] <Riddell> I'll talk with them at Akademy about it
[18:09] <popey> ok :)
[18:10] <popey> Riddell: btw, on another podcast (Big Daddy Linux) last weekend they asked me to suggest a distro to challenge them all to test. Naturally I suggested KDE Neon :)
[18:10] <popey> s/distro/iso/ ;)
[18:11] <Riddell> ooh a challenge
[21:56] <daftykins> diddledan: apparently you can has moneys \o/
[21:56] <diddledan> yey
[21:57]  * diddledan plans a splurge
[21:57] <daftykins> :D
[21:57] <daftykins> also managed to change their password on the site since it was a word featured on the site itself :( not too great
[21:57] <diddledan> eep
[21:58] <daftykins> probably had a hand in things being taken over last time
[21:58] <diddledan> maybe, yeah
[21:59] <daftykins> in other news how's this for a joke domain co, blacknight.com the Irish one
[21:59] <daftykins> "sir in order to transfer this .gg domain from another of our customers to you, we ignore the EPP code and ask that you ask the current holder to release it"
[21:59] <daftykins> nice job folks, so then once that bit is done...
[22:00] <daftykins> "yeah we don't have a DNS management transfer process, so what you'll have to do is ask the previous guy to cancel it - then you can add it and add the records manually - if you're quick there will be no downtime!"
[22:00] <daftykins> sweet 8D
[22:00] <diddledan> wat
[22:00] <diddledan> that's a bit nuts
[22:00] <daftykins> mmhmm :D
[22:00] <diddledan> "do it quickly" is not the answer
[22:00] <diddledan> .. to any question
[22:01] <daftykins> so to them, a transfer and ownership is solely who's paying at renewal time
[22:08] <daftykins> on all other things i won besides convincing my mate not to use technologies he doesn't understand how to maintain :D


[04:09] <guiverc> if you lock a ubuntu desktop system (gnome); is the unlock done by gnome-shell or gdm3?


[00:23] <mup> PR operator#1017 closed: test: add type hinting to test_testing <type hints> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1017>
[00:48] <mup> PR operator#1018 opened: test: separate the real pebble tests into a separate module <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1018>
[00:53] <mup> Issue operator#1007 closed: Run Pyright on test files to catch typing issues <type hints> <Created by benhoyt> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1007>
[00:53] <mup> PR operator#1015 closed: test: add type hints to test_model <type hints> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1015>
[01:28] <mup> Issue operator#665 closed: Support scoped event handler statuses <feature> <23.10> <Created by knkski> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/665>
[01:54] <mup> Issue operator#945 closed: Inconsistency in `relation-list` output with subordinates <Created by sed-i> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/945>
[02:03] <mup> Issue operator#935 closed: (should we) prevent the deferred events queue to contain duplicates? <feature> <Created by PietroPasotti> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/935>
[02:16] <mup> Issue operator#922 closed: Lazy dependent Object initialization <Created by PietroPasotti> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/922>
[02:20] <mup> Issue operator#912 closed: Would it be possible to not return path to empty resources <Created by mkalcok> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/912>
[02:35] <mup> Issue operator#1019 opened: Change PyPI classification from Beta to Production/Stable <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1019>
[03:09] <mup> Issue operator#812 closed: Support leader-settings-changed events with the harness <Created by rwcarlsen> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/812>
[03:28] <mup> PR operator#1020 opened: docs: Update the PyPI development status to production/stable <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1020>
[03:32] <mup> Issue operator#1019 closed: Change PyPI classification from Beta to Production/Stable <small item> <Created by benhoyt> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1019>
[03:32] <mup> PR operator#1020 closed: docs: Update the PyPI development status to production/stable <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1020>
[03:39] <mup> Issue operator#1007 opened: Run Pyright on test files to catch typing issues <type hints> <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1007>
[04:03] <mup> Issue operator#1021 opened: Use PyPI's "Trusted Publisher" functionality to publish packages <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1021>
[05:04] <mup> Issue operator#898 closed: `push` with `make_dirs=True` does not create the nested subdirs and silently fails <blocked> <Created by sed-i> <Closed by sed-i> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/898>
[12:19] <mup> Issue operator#847 closed: catalogue hook failed: "leader-elected" <blocked> <Created by Basdbruijne> <Closed by Basdbruijne> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/847>


[02:33] <spiv> mhall119: yes this is a good place to ask, although it tends to be quiet on the weekend
[02:34] <spiv> mhall119: to clear the revision history of a branch you could probably just call your_branch.set_last_revision_info(0, bzrlib.revision.NULL_REVISION)
[02:34] <spiv> mhall119: although I'm guessing you want to change the workingtree as well as the branch?
[02:36] <spiv> mhall119: which IIRC is wt.set_parent_ids([])
[02:50] <mhall119> spiv: thanks for the reply, I want to keep the working tree
[02:51] <mhall119> basically I'll have a branch I want to use as a "template"
[02:51] <mhall119> when starting a new project, I want a copy of the latest of that "template" to be the start of my project's branch, but I don't want the template's revision history to be included in my project's revision history
[02:57] <mhall119> spiv: those worked perfectly, thanks!
[15:25] <maxb> jelmer: Hi. If you have a moment, could you outline the motivation for switching to cython? (Mainly to help in assessing whether the switch is applicable for PPA builds for older Ubuntus)
[15:28] <jelmer> maxb: It wasn't really an important change - cython is required by e.g. meliae, and is supposed to generate quicker code.
[15:29] <maxb> right - take the "try it and see" approach, then, do you think?
[15:29] <jelmer> maxb: with python-pyrex you mean?
[15:30] <maxb> I mean, we might as well see if the cython versions in older Ubuntus will work
[15:30] <maxb> And if they don't, we can switch back to pyrex for those
[15:32] <jelmer> ah
[15:32] <jelmer> yeah, I think that makes sense
[15:39] <Peng> Cython isn't as useful if you maintain backwards compatibility with archaic Pyrex.
[15:39] <Peng> s/\./ versions./
[16:28] <cyberkilla> <3 Bazaar
[17:34] <naoki> bzr source archive is distributed with generated c sources.
[17:34] <naoki> So I don't feel compatibility with old Pyrex is big issue.
[17:43] <naoki> http://docs.cython.org/src/userguide/pyrex_differences.html
[22:59] <lamont> any plans for a 2.4.0 backport to hardy/lucid that doesn't require newer-than-lucid python?
[23:01] <lamont> 2.4.0~beta2-2~bazaar1~lucid1 happens to build-depend on a slightly-newer-than-maverick python, and therefore is FTBFS
[23:06] <maxb> lamont: hmm. it's not FTBFS
[23:06] <maxb> It may, however, not be particularly useful :-)
[23:09] <maxb> lamont: I see no issue with the lucid build
[23:10]  * jelmer waves to lamont, maxb
[23:11] <maxb> lamont: Oh, but you're trying to rebuild it in a secret Canonical IS archive aren't you
[23:11] <maxb> Without including our builddeps PPA
[23:44]  * maxb blinks
[23:45] <maxb> I'm getting a test failure for 2.4b2 on hardy
[23:45] <maxb> NotImplementedError: <bound method SilentUIFactory.get_password of SilentUIFactory()>
[23:45]  * maxb wonders how that managed to behave differently there


[02:00] <perrito666> wallyworld_: THE amount of things my pr breaks that I had not noticed :p
[02:01] <wallyworld_> perrito666: wot? be with you soon, in a meeting
[02:20] <wallyworld_> perrito666: so what's broken?
[04:05] <anastasiamac> axw: wallyworld_: PTAL http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/796/
[04:05] <wallyworld_> soon, knee deep in writing tests :-(
[04:13] <anastasiamac> wallyworld_: thnx :D
[04:32] <axw> anastasiamac: reviewed
[04:32] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx :) will look
[04:37] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx for review!
[04:37] <axw> np
[04:37] <anastasiamac> axw: from brief look at the cmments it's not far off :)
[04:38] <axw> anastasiamac: yes I think so, a few key assumptions to fix but mostly looking good
[04:38] <anastasiamac> r u happy for me to change unit name/storage name pair to storage id?
[04:38] <anastasiamac> or.... shall we allow show to "be a version of list for unit/storage pair
[04:38] <axw> anastasiamac: not sure, it's not exactly a very friendly interface
[04:38] <axw> anastasiamac: I guess it does double up on list if that's the case
[04:39] <axw> anastasiamac: list should allow you to filter on unit+storage
[04:39] <axw> anastasiamac: maybe just have it take storage ID for now
[04:39] <anastasiamac> axw: k.... :D
[04:39] <anastasiamac> axw: id or tag?...
[04:40] <axw> anastasiamac: ID at the user level, tag at the API level
[04:40] <axw> i.e. convert user-input ID to a StorageTag
[04:40] <axw> and pass that to backend
[04:40] <anastasiamac> axw: awesome! will do
[05:00] <menn0> wallyworld_or axw: tiny review please: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/797/
[05:01] <axw> looking
[05:01] <menn0> axw: this fixes something that bit me while writing tests around the new envWorkerManager
[05:03] <axw> menn0: reviewed
[05:04] <menn0> axw: cheers (agree with the comment. will fix)
[05:04] <axw> cool, nps
[05:42] <anastasiamac> axw: made the changes...
[05:43] <axw> looking
[05:53] <axw> anastasiamac: replied
[05:53] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx :D
[05:55] <anastasiamac> axw: m so gald to know that I ams ooo close :D
[05:55] <anastasiamac> am sooo*
[05:55] <axw> :)
[05:55] <anastasiamac> axw: i'll address them now-ish... kids r coming home soon :(
[05:55] <axw> no worries
[07:06] <wallyworld_> axw: it's all very rushed as i have to disappear for a while, but here's storage-get implementation. the uniter worker factory tests use jujuconnsuite so the implementation works end-end http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/798/
[07:07] <axw> wallyworld_: cool, I'm just trying to get storage-attached working atm, will take a look in a bit
[07:18] <wallyworld_> no hurry as i'm gone for a few hours
[07:38] <menn0> axw: sorry to bug you again. another micro-review pls? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/799/
[07:38] <axw> sure
[07:40] <axw> menn0: LGTM
[07:41] <menn0> axw: tyvm
[08:20] <axw> woo
[08:20] <axw> wallyworld_: 2015-01-23 08:19:15 INFO juju.worker.uniter.context runner.go:149 skipped "data-storage-attached" hook (not implemented)
[08:47] <axw> fwereade: can you please cast your eyes over http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/800/, specifically the changes in the worker/uniter package. I mostly want feedback on the refactoring of HookSource/HookSender
[08:48] <fwereade> axw, certainly
[08:50] <fwereade> axw, from the summary, that's almost completely awesome, because I was planning to extract them myself at some point :)
[08:50] <fwereade> axw, but I'll take a look at the details ;)
[08:50] <axw> fwereade: great, hopefully the implementation lives up to it ;)
[08:54] <dimitern> hey axw
[08:54] <axw> heya dimitern
[08:55] <dimitern> my new lxc.updateContainerConfig helper landed just now, please have a look when you can, as I designed it to be useful in general (not just networking) and should also help with configuring storage settings for lxc
[08:56] <axw> dimitern: awesome, thanks. I'll take a look now
[08:56] <dimitern> axw, cheers
[08:57] <fwereade> axw, remind me, when exactly do the storage instances get put on the unit?
[08:58] <fwereade> axw, after the machine's set them up and everything's in place?
[08:58] <axw> fwereade: storage instances get created and assigned to a unit when the unit is created (the watcher logic is wrong atm)
[08:58] <axw> fwereade: it should be checking to see that the storage instances are provisioned
[08:59] <TheMue> morning
[08:59] <axw> ahoy
[09:00] <fwereade> TheMue, o/
[09:00] <TheMue> ;)
[09:00] <dimitern> hey TheMue, you've got a review btw :)
[09:00] <fwereade> axw, is the final intent that the unit only react once they are provisioned? or will the unit be responsible for any part of that?
[09:01] <TheMue> dimitern: ah, great, thx. will take a look
[09:01] <dimitern> TheMue, I haven't said :ship it: as I'd like to have another look when you implement the suggestions
[09:01] <axw> fwereade: the *uniter* will only react to provisioned ones, but there will be another worker in the unit agent that takes care of provisioning *some* storage instances (e.g. tmpfs)
[09:02] <TheMue> dimitern: sure
[09:02] <fwereade> axw, would it be reasonable to have that on the machine agent instead?
[09:02] <axw> fwereade: there will also be a storage provisioner on the state server (for IaaS volumes), and one on the machine agent (for disks)
[09:02] <axw> fwereade: not for filesystems-type storage instances I think, since they're owned by the unit
[09:03] <fwereade> axw, hm, I think something may have just crystallized for me
[09:03] <fwereade> axw, it feels like there's maybe a risk of repeating the mistakes we made with subordinates?
[09:03] <axw> fwereade: (btw, I'm not at all happy with the storage model atm, if you have suggestions I'm very happy to hear)
[09:04] <axw> fwereade: I'm not sure I know what those mistakes are
[09:04] <fwereade> axw, so the big one is making subordinates specific to units, not to machines
[09:05] <axw> fwereade: ok. so, in fact, storage instances can be owned by services or units, this could be extended to machines
[09:05]  * dimitern is sick of typing "juju" instead of "git"
[09:05] <dimitern> it will be nice to be able to do  "juju commit -m "Changes after review" or "juju checkout master"\
[09:05] <axw> fwereade: in which case I can look at putting all provisioning on the machine agent
[09:05] <fwereade> axw, it means the relation scoping rules are weird, and if you have two colocated units of X with subordinate Y you *also* get two colocated Ys
[09:05] <dimitern> :)
[09:06] <axw> fwereade: for storage, I think that would be expected (placement is disabled for storage right now, though)
[09:07] <fwereade> axw, agreed on that front
[09:07] <fwereade> axw, ok, from another angle, I think my primary motivation
[09:08] <fwereade> axw, is that having more workers in the uniter makes it harder to unify the agents
[09:08] <axw> fwereade: yep, fair enough. I think I can deal with having it on the machine agent
[09:09] <fwereade> axw, there's a strong dose of "the physical disks are definitely the machine's responsibility, and it's weird to have certain storage types handled elsewhere"
[09:10] <fwereade> axw, but to try to explore the original feeling
[09:10] <fwereade> axw, machines have units
[09:10] <fwereade> axw, units have subordinate units
[09:11] <fwereade> axw, all of those things run together on the same machine
[09:12] <fwereade> axw, so there's a mismatch
[09:12] <fwereade> axw, it led to a horrible watcher
[09:12] <fwereade> axw, because the machine wants to know about the complete set of units that need to be deployed
[09:13] <fwereade> axw, and we need tolook all over the db to find them ;p
[09:13] <axw> ah, I see
[09:14] <fwereade> axw, I'm thinking along the lines of "creating a unit/service adds a record for appropriate storage, somewhere it'll be seen by a suitable provisioner"
[09:14] <fwereade> axw, similarly, adding storage later does the same
[09:14] <fwereade> axw, neither of these things need to touch the unit/service docs
[09:14] <axw> fwereade: so we have a "storageinstances" collection that holds them
[09:15] <axw> fwereade: the docs have an "owner" field which is either a unit or service tag
[09:15] <axw> that's currently how the watcher filters
[09:16] <axw> fwereade: possibly I'm doing something dumb, but they do touch the unit/service to add a reference (see my latest email)
[09:16] <fwereade> axw, right, indeed, that is necessary
[09:16] <fwereade> axw, yeah, I've been thinking about that and have yet to usefully formulate a response, but part of that is why I'm talking to you now
[09:16] <axw> ok :)
[09:16] <fwereade> axw, so, exactly, it's the backreferences that make me uncomfortable
[09:17] <fwereade> axw, assume everything we have today but without the backreferences
[09:19] <fwereade> axw, but also associate storageinstances explicitly with the machine (and?, hmm, remote storage provider?)
[09:20] <fwereade> axw, such that in either case we can have a simple watcher that connects easily with the right storage provisioner worker
[09:20] <axw> fwereade: ok. so it's okay to destroy a unit that has active storage instances?
[09:21] <fwereade> axw, and then (analogously to how we set instancedata once a machine's provisioned) we can put the actual info the unit agent needs to know in another collection somewhere, such that it's simple for the unit agent to watch it and respond once it's there
[09:22] <fwereade> axw, and, yes, I think it is
[09:22] <fwereade> axw, so long as they do get cleaned up, it doesn't have to be the unit's responsibility
[09:23] <fwereade> axw, you could just have a cleanup step in state that finds all storage tagged with the removed unit and sets it to dying
[09:23] <fwereade> axw, in fact it's quite nice to have it on the machine for that reason as well
[09:23] <axw> fwereade: we *would* want to block machine destruction until that's done though right?
[09:23] <fwereade> axw, machine destruction, yes, I think so
[09:24] <axw> ok, sounds reasonable
[09:24] <fwereade> axw, which would maybe imply backreferences on the machine
[09:24] <fwereade> axw, but I would also say, ideally, *not* on the machine *document*
[09:25] <axw> fwereade: right, I will try to avoid doing that
[09:25] <fwereade> axw, we need to be really careful about adding fields to those docs without carefully considering the impact on existing watchers
[09:26] <fwereade> axw, basically given the current watcher implementation it's usually sensible to group fields according to their read/write patterns
[09:26] <axw> fwereade: I'm going to have to rework the storage model a bit too. because of shared storage, we'll need to have a separate entity that models a unit's (machine's?) attachment to that storage instance
[09:26] <axw> likewise for volumes/block devices
[09:26] <axw> (i.e. for multi-attach volumes)
[09:27] <fwereade> axw, got you
[09:27] <fwereade> axw, and in fact
[09:28] <fwereade> axw, that document containing the instancedata-equivalent
[09:28] <fwereade> axw, which is whatthe unit needs to see and watch
[09:28]  * axw nods
[09:28] <fwereade> axw, maps pretty much perfectly onto that entity
[09:29] <fwereade> axw, there may still be a question about shared storage
[09:29] <fwereade> axw, ah-ha, maybe
[09:30] <axw> ?
[09:30] <fwereade> axw, *provisioning* and *accessing* a given storage are fundamentally different responsibilities
[09:31] <axw> right
[09:31] <fwereade> axw, so all the provisioning happens on the machine agent
[09:33] <fwereade> axw, ie creation/destruction of actual substrate
[09:34] <fwereade> axw, and once the storage exists, theminimum necessary info to access it is handed over to the unit agent
[09:37] <axw> fwereade: I think that sounds sensible. the machine agent will provision it and send that info the the API server, which will update the storage instance *attachment* doc with the location, etc., which the unit will then see
[09:37] <fwereade> axw, the unit agent is then responsible for turning it into the form the actual unit expects -- possibly even including things like "mount the device" and "create the filesystem"? -- but, crucially, this becomes synchronised with the unit agent, because we can do that work inside operations, and queue suitable hooks for afterwards
[09:38] <fwereade> axw, the other thing
[09:39] <fwereade> axw, is that the storage-watching seems like it's targeted at the dynamic storage model and I think the first use case to satisfy is the "run all the storage hooks before the install hook" one
[09:40] <fwereade> axw, that's not to say it won't become useful
[09:40] <axw> fwereade: I was intending to do that next, because it's of less demo value :)
[09:41] <axw> fwereade: right now we just want to see the hooks firing when storage is assigned
[09:42] <axw> fwereade: so what I was going to do is after the deploy operation has finished, but before the "install" or "upgrade-charm" hooks are run, wait for the required storage to be attached
[09:42] <axw> is that the right place to interpose?
[09:43] <fwereade> axw, yes, I think so
[09:44] <fwereade> axw, so instead of queueing an install hook post-deploy we instead record and run some attaching-storage mode
[09:45] <fwereade> axw, forgive dumb questions, haven't read it all yet
[09:45] <fwereade> axw, local persistent what's-attached storage?
[09:46] <axw> fwereade: attached storage is storage that's assigned to the unit and ready for use. i.e. the block device is visible and/or the filesystem is formatted and mounted
[09:46] <fwereade> axw, we need to bear in mind that we could get bounced at any time, and we'd really like to be able to pick up seamlessly
[09:46] <fwereade> axw, how do we know we've already run the appropriate storage-attached hook?
[09:47] <fwereade> axw, I don't think we want to attach all the storage every time we start the agent
[09:47] <fwereade> axw, it's bad enough doing that with config-changed ;)
[09:47] <axw> fwereade: we don't (yet), I will be adding local state persistence
[09:47] <axw> a la the relationer
[09:48] <fwereade> axw, cool
[09:48] <fwereade> axw, but it brings me to another thing
[09:48] <fwereade> axw, that storage interface in uniter basically looks good, and the correspondence with relations is good and sane
[09:49] <fwereade> axw, the trouble is that I'm pretty sure the relationers are in the wrong place
[09:49] <fwereade> axw, and that they need to be associated more closely with operation state, and not with the uniter itself
[09:51] <fwereade> axw, are you roughly familiar with any of the uniter/runner code?
[09:51] <axw> fwereade: very roughly :)
[09:51] <fwereade> axw, there's a yucky callback into the uniter when we set up a hook context to find out what relation state currently looks like
[09:52] <fwereade> axw, but operations themselves are composed of methods that accept a state and return a new state
[09:52] <fwereade> axw, we could and should be feeding that info along an explicit path
[09:53] <axw> I see, so we're going uniter -> operation -> runner and then back to uniter via a callback?
[09:53] <fwereade> axw, so the state we pass into the operation methods includes what storage there is, what relations there are, etc etc
[09:53] <fwereade> axw, yeah exactly
[09:54] <fwereade> axw, I have done a reasonable job of splitting out the types that needed to exist
[09:54] <fwereade> axw, but now the borders are in place there's still a bunch of moving things to the right place
[09:54] <axw> fwereade: ok, I'll bear it in mind when getting to the context bit... which will be very soon
[09:55] <fwereade> axw, ofc, good point
[09:55] <fwereade> axw, yes, please make sure it's part of the state you make accessible via the operation executor
[09:56] <fwereade> axw, (and yes it's a *bit* weird that *that* is responsible for operation state persistence, feel free to massage it towards sanity)
[09:56] <fwereade> axw, and if you're doing that...
[09:57] <fwereade> axw, would you just move relations in the same way at the same time please?
[09:57] <fwereade> axw, you don't have to fix the callback, although it would be cool if you did
[09:57] <fwereade> axw, just, if you're moving one field please move the other because the same forces apply to both
[09:57] <fwereade> axw, making sense?
[09:58] <axw> fwereade: nope. moving which field?
[09:58] <fwereade> sorry
[09:58] <fwereade> axw, uniter.relations
[09:58] <fwereade> axw, I think is completely analogous to uniter.storage
[09:58] <axw> right
[09:58] <fwereade> axw, that storage info needs to get to the execution contexts
[09:58] <fwereade> axw, as does relation info
[09:59] <fwereade> axw, which currently uses a scary/evil callback
[09:59] <fwereade> axw, we should not repeat the relations mistake
[10:00] <fwereade> axw, we should make sure storage state is passed into operations in the same way the other local state is
[10:00] <axw> ok
[10:00] <fwereade> axw, (see the uniter/operation.Operation interface)
[10:00] <fwereade> axw, (and Executor which uses it)
[10:01] <voidspace> TheMue: dimitern: sorry guys - I'll be a few minutes late to standu
[10:01] <voidspace> *standup
[10:01] <fwereade> axw, this likely implies changing something about the Operation/Executor interface (or possibly the operation.State type??)
[10:01] <fwereade> axw, whatever you do to it to add storage, please also do to add relations
[10:02] <axw> fwereade: ok, understood. I'll need to figure that bit out first, but I'll do both at the same time
[10:03] <fwereade> axw, you can keep the field on the uniter and the callback to it -- just make sure the relations do get to the runner context via an explicit chain of calls, and then it'll be easy to remove the callback and the uniter's reference to relations
[10:04] <axw> fwereade: ok. sorry for being dumb, but where would relations and storage live if not on uniter?
[10:04] <axw> modes feeds them...
[10:05] <fwereade> axw, I think they're part of operation state
[10:05] <fwereade> axw, not sure you've had a chance to keep up with the most recent uniter stuff?
[10:06] <fwereade> axw, particularly the operation stuff
[10:06] <fwereade> axw, wait, you did review 760 I think
[10:06] <fwereade> axw, so the direction we're currently moving in is
[10:07] <fwereade> axw, strip uniter down as far as we can, it's got too many responsibilities, and the only one that's *clearly* the uniter's problem is creating (and maintaining) the other components that need to work together
[10:08] <fwereade> axw, the filter, the juju-run handler, the actual main loop
[10:09] <axw> fwereade: ok. so uniter will be responsible for taking things from the filter and passing them to the operation state
[10:09] <axw> operation state will encapsulate the relations and storage bits
[10:09] <axw> and ... will have a hook output channel?
[10:09] <fwereade> axw, to support this, the various tangled skeins of "what actually happens when we X changes" are being extracted into operations
[10:10] <fwereade> axw, which will ideally operate purely against the state they're given, but are currently supported by alarming numbers of callbacks
[10:10] <fwereade> axw, which is still better than before because at least we can test them in some detail
[10:11] <fwereade> axw, I'm not sure about the output channel
[10:11] <fwereade> axw, did you see relation.Peeker? I think it was 761
[10:11] <axw> I didn't look at that one
[10:12] <fwereade> axw, so the core idea there is that relying on one big select with a bunch of inputs is not actually good enough to get any sane sort of hook ordering behaviour
[10:12] <fwereade> axw, so relation.Peeker is an alternative to a HookSender for using a HookSource
[10:13] <fwereade> axw, it has a Peeks channel, which has something to give you if the source is not empty
[10:13] <fwereade> axw, when yu read from the peeks channel you get a Peek with a hook.Info, and Consume/Reject methods
[10:14] <fwereade> axw, you have to consume or reject the peek before it'll give you another, or read from the watcher again
[10:14] <fwereade> axw, but basically you can leave them to run in the background and only interrupt them when you know there's no higher-priority hook to run
[10:15] <fwereade> axw, so the "make it a HookSource" thing is great
[10:15] <fwereade> axw, but please make sure it works with Peeker as well as HookSender
[10:16] <fwereade> axw, all that CL has is the addition of the type, I don't use it yet
[10:16] <axw> fwereade: I did update relation/peeker.go, I just didn't look into what it does
[10:16] <axw> thanks for the explanation
[10:16] <fwereade> axw, perfect then :)
[10:17] <fwereade> axw, maybe non-obvious: this means I intend to do away with the whole starthooks/stophooks malarkey in modeabide
[10:18] <fwereade> axw, when we know about the relations we can just watch them forever and only check the queues when we need them
[10:18] <axw> fwereade: ahhh I see, so they'll just be running watchers (in a goroutine) all the time
[10:19] <fwereade> axw, yeah, I think it's much less complex
[10:19] <axw> yep
[10:19] <axw> I thought it was a bit awkward
[10:20] <fwereade> axw, since you're here and in this area though, another thing to be aware of and feel free to do if I haven't and it helps you
[10:20] <fwereade> axw, when passing storage state around
[10:21] <fwereade> axw, the current interface for Operation is wrong : it accepts a State, and returns *State, error, and the executor is responsible for writing out the new state
[10:21] <fwereade> axw, this is already awkward to some degree and will not make sense at all with relations and storage
[10:22] <fwereade> axw, it ought to be accepting something a State type that it can modify and then write if it wants to
[10:22] <fwereade> axw, because certain operations will absolutely want to change that state
[10:23] <fwereade> axw, attaching storage is absolutely something you want to record having done
[10:23] <fwereade> axw, as is recording relation hook state
[10:24] <axw> fwereade: how does the current interface not handle that?
[10:24] <fwereade> axw, magic callbacks into the Uniter! if you want a catalogue of my sins, see uniter/op_callbacks.go
[10:25] <fwereade> axw, hopefully I will get that down to (almost) nothing over time
[10:25] <fwereade> axw, and it's already paid off because now I can at least test what individual operations actually do in some detail
[10:25] <axw> fwereade: oh right, it modifies state but not the relation state
[10:25] <fwereade> axw, yeah
[10:25] <fwereade> axw, and the relation state modification happens in CommitHook iirc
[10:26] <axw> ok
[10:26] <fwereade> axw, as you have on the Storage interface
[10:26] <axw> yup
[10:26] <fwereade> axw, when it would be much nicer to have the state-to-modify passed in directly in both instances
[10:27] <axw> :q
[10:27] <axw> oops
[10:27] <fwereade> axw, anyway, sorry my code led you astray
[10:27] <axw> fwereade: no worries, thanks for the lesson :)  this has been very informative
[10:28] <fwereade> axw, cool
[10:28] <axw> not sure how I'm going to do all that by Tuesday though.. maybe not sleep
[10:33] <fwereade> axw, as always I am giving you high-level advice, we can't realise the vision all in one go
[10:33] <axw> :)
[10:34] <fwereade> axw, so, for example, so long as you do promise to fix it later
[10:34] <fwereade> axw, it would be very reasonable to start off by just tacking the storage state onto the existing operation.State
[10:34] <axw> fwereade: noted. I will probably have to use that line
[10:34] <axw> ok
[10:34] <fwereade> axw, because I think you *do* need persistence of what you've done
[10:35] <fwereade> axw, and you can at least keep using an existing mechanism (ie executor writing it out for you)
[10:35] <fwereade> axw, (by you returning a state with whatever changes)
[10:35]  * axw nods
[10:36] <fwereade> axw, fwiw, the other thing I need to do with uniter.relations
[10:37] <fwereade> axw, is to turn Update into an operation
[10:37] <fwereade> axw, so there will be storage ops, and relations ops -- neither of those will run hooks, but they will write out state that directly or indirectly queues other hooks
[10:38] <fwereade> axw, and uniter will hopefully shrink to almost nothing
[10:38] <fwereade> sorry bbs
[10:38] <axw> ok
[10:45] <fwereade> axw, ok back
[10:45] <fwereade> axw, so do you feel usefully guided? :)
[10:46] <axw> fwereade: mostly. I'm not really seeing how I can get rid of PrepareHook/CommitHook yet
[10:46] <axw> in the callbacks
[10:46] <axw> fwereade: I mean, apart from coding relation/storage logic into the operations package
[10:47] <fwereade> axw, I think that's exactly what we need
[10:47] <axw> ok
[10:47] <fwereade> axw, we currently have deploy ops, and these are analogous, I think
[10:47] <fwereade> axw, I need to do a RelationsChanged operation soon
[10:48] <fwereade> axw, I still don't have the full picture because of the starthooks/stophooks thing
[10:48] <axw> I see, so I'd be adding a StorageAttached operation which queues a <name>-storage-attached hook if it's committed
[10:48] <fwereade> axw, exactly
[10:49] <fwereade> axw, (what I might do with start/stop hooks is just make them run in every mode and shut down when the uniter shuts down
[10:49] <fwereade> axw, and that feels sort of correct
[10:50] <fwereade> axw, in that it's essentially just another kind of operation filter
[10:50] <fwereade> axw, and we don't start/stop all that every time uniter state changes
[10:51] <axw> sounds logical
[10:51] <fwereade> axw, I'm wondering whether uniter is eventually going to collapse down into a single worker.Runner constructor :)
[10:52] <axw> fwereade: heh, I was thinking that earlier :)
[10:52] <fwereade> axw, I think there's enough of that stuff going on that it's what we need somewhere
[10:52] <fwereade> axw, it's a single non-trivial responsibility and it deserves some isolation
[10:53] <fwereade> axw, we'll get there one day :)
[11:29]  * dimitern steps out for ~1h
[11:56] <fwereade> axw, reviewed in some detail, hope it's helpful
[12:11] <perrito666> morning
[12:31] <axw> thanks fwereade, about to eat, I'll take a look later
[12:48] <wallyworld_> axw: i was thinking the storage-attached hook might reasonably pass in multiple storageids if several are attached before the hook fires
[13:06] <anastasiamac> axw: updated PR. plugged in bare minimum :D
[13:12] <axw> wallyworld_: what's the point though? if you can't guarantee that?
[13:12] <axw> anastasiamac: awesome
[13:13] <wallyworld_> axw: similar to bulk calls - sure it may only be 1 most times, but why not allow for > 1 at minimal extra cost
[13:13] <axw> wallyworld_: I think it's more important to be consistent with other hooks. the most similar we have to compare to is relation hooks, and we don't combine hook calls for different relations
[13:14] <wallyworld_> ok, fair point, i'll change it. i'm not overly familiar with the design philosphy behind hooks
[13:15] <axw> wallyworld_: I think this is something that would be good to get fwereade's input on, maybe when you're at the sprint
[13:16] <wallyworld_> will do, i'll make it one for now - that will also simply the output and remove the need for parsing
[13:16] <wallyworld_> if we add an attribute key as you suggested
[13:16] <fwereade> wallyworld_, yeah, I think we'd prefer to go for granular and stay consistent
[13:17] <wallyworld_> fwereade: the cost is that it il translate into multiple api calls to get the instance details
[13:17] <wallyworld_> one api call per hook invocation
[13:17] <fwereade> wallyworld_, axw: bulk hooks are absolutely a good idea but one we always held off from in the past (and as you know I favour a something-changed approach for charms that reach a certain threshold of complexity
[13:17] <fwereade> )
[13:18] <fwereade> wallyworld_, axw: so I'd prefer us to stay consistent with the existing approach for now and have one invocation per storage instance as we have one invocation per remote unit
[13:18] <wallyworld_> ok, will do
[13:19] <wallyworld_> it's not per remote unit that i'm talking about - it's per storage instance
[13:19] <wallyworld_> a unit can require > 1 storage instances
[13:20] <wallyworld_> these may become attached and available on the host machine prior to the attached hook firing
[13:21] <wallyworld_> hence if we know of the many, we could pass them all into the hook for that unit, and a single api call made to get the storage instance details
[13:21] <wallyworld_> but, the preference is for one id per hook
[13:21] <wallyworld_> so i'll change it
[13:24] <anastasiamac> axw: the Rb shows 1 issue against my PR but all issues are reolved and 1 dropped :P
[13:24] <anastasiamac> axw: RB lies?... :D
[13:25] <axw> anastasiamac: *shrug*  I am reviewing now
[13:25] <anastasiamac> axw: oh Awesome!! thnx :) didn't want to pull u from dina...
[13:25] <axw> nah, finished
[13:31]  * dimitern is back
[13:32] <axw> anastasiamac: done. almost there, a couple more things (sorry)
[13:34] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx for review. will address it tomorrow..
[13:34] <axw> anastasiamac: no worries, get some sleep :)
[13:35] <anastasiamac> axw: sleep? what's that? :P
[13:47] <axw> fwereade: thanks for the comments. I'm looking into changing the storage stuff to an operation now, which I think will clean things up a bit in my code. if I do go ahead with that, I'll probably do a followup for the relation code when time's not so tight
[13:48] <fwereade> axw, yeah, you don't have to do that for relations -- it's just if you're moving the one field please send relations via the same path if and when it's ~trivial to do so
[14:01] <jw4> I've noticed a couple review comments in the last week or so about copyright headers - do we have a documented standard way to update copyright headers?
[14:02] <jw4> 2013,2014,2015?  2013-2015?  replace all with 2015? etc.
[14:03] <perrito666> jw4: new files get the current year
[14:03] <jw4> perrito666: makes sense - how do we update existing files though
[14:03] <perrito666> jw4: no clue
[14:04] <perrito666> I would say you are right n-m
[14:04] <perrito666> meh, vivid broke my skype
[14:05] <axw> jw4: first year of publication
[14:05] <axw> documented... no. there was a juju-dev thread on this a while ago
[14:06] <jw4> axw: what is the first year of publication?  the year the file was created, or the year a new function was added, etc. etc. -
[14:07] <jw4> axw: was there a conclusion on the mailing list? I'll have to go back and find it I guess
[14:07] <axw> jw4: good question. this is the point I say IANAL ;)
[14:07] <axw> jw4: *I* just put the year the file was created
[14:07] <axw> others put the range
[14:08] <axw> some put all the years with commas, but I think that is discouraged
[14:08] <jw4> axw: heh - I see.  I only ask because I've noticed an uptick on review comments giving different guidance
[14:08] <jw4> expected in January I guess
[14:14] <hazmat> perrito666, ericsnow minor ux feature bug 1414021 for backup downloads
[14:14] <mup> Bug #1414021: Send size in download backup to allow for progress indicator <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414021>
[14:16] <perrito666> hazmat: tx
[14:16] <hazmat> what version of juju is it that starts having the /environment/:uuid/endpoints .. trying to do some auto negotiation in the client
[14:19] <sinzui> dimitern, sorry I think your last commit broke local provider lxc jobs for trusty, vivid, and utopic.
[14:20] <sinzui> dimitern, bug 1414016
[14:20] <mup> Bug #1414016: Local-provider lxc Failed to create lxc_container <ci> <local-provider> <lxc> <regression> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414016>
[14:21] <dimitern> sinzui, oh boy, looking - thanks
[14:22] <TheMue> dimitern: thx for review
[14:25] <dimitern> sinzui, can I get some more info for that bug? /var/lib/juju/containers/* and /var/lib/juju/removed-containers/*, as well as /var/lib/lxc/juju-*/config and /var/lib/lxc/jenkins-*/config ?
[14:25] <dimitern> TheMue, np
[14:26] <sinzui> dimitern, not at moment, 1.22-beta1 has started testing
[14:26] <sinzui> I will visit a machine and try to run what was left in place
[14:27] <dimitern> sinzui, also these lxc jobs should all be running with logging-config: juju.container=TRACE
[14:27] <dimitern> sinzui, ok, that'll work
[14:39] <sinzui> dimitern, I sent a email with the logs
[14:39] <dimitern> sinzui, thanks!
[14:40] <dimitern> sinzui, ok I think I understood the problem and started to work on a fix
[14:40] <sinzui> thank you dimitern
[15:05] <hazmat> hmm.. the charms facade is enabled in trunk, and is returned in login info, but invoking any of the Charms facade methods gets 'Error': u'unknown object type "Charms"'
[15:06] <hazmat> anastasiamac, is the charms facade active? feel like i'm missing something
[15:21] <sinzui> perrito666, katco voidspace : I need help triaging this bug. It isn't clear why juju failed or if the issue is in the cloud image or network. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1413752
[15:21] <mup> Bug #1413752: Bootstrapping to Openstack Environment fails with "no instances found" <hyperscale> <openstack-provider> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413752>
[16:14] <alexisb> sinzui, that bug looks like it may need to be looked at by the onyx team who are gone for the weekend
[16:15] <alexisb> and hazmat anastasiamac should also be on her saturday :)
[16:15] <sinzui> alexisb, :/
[16:15] <alexisb> sinzui, I can send tim and team a note
[16:15] <sinzui> alexisb, I will subscribe tim and ask for him to give an opion
[16:16] <alexisb> sinzui, and of course if perrito666 katco voidspace and team can feel free to chime in
[18:03] <cherylj> Is there anyone around who can help me with a problem with Review Board?
[18:22] <katco> ericsnow: ^^
[18:22] <ericsnow> cherylj: I'd be glad to help :)
[18:23] <cherylj> thanks, ericsnow
[18:23] <cherylj> I just pushed some changes to address some review comments, but I'm not seeing that Review Board picked them up
[18:23] <cherylj> I see that it thinks there's another revision
[18:24] <cherylj> But it shows nothing in the diff from this and the previous revision
[18:24] <cherylj> http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/770/
[18:24] <cherylj> if I go to the PR on github, I see the correct changes
[18:24] <ericsnow> \me takes a look
[18:25] <katco> cherylj: hm that should have happened automatically i think, but you can probably do "rbt post -u" to force the issue
[18:25] <cherylj> Well, I saw that it created a new revision
[18:25] <ericsnow> cherylj: did you refresh the reviewboard page? :)
[18:25] <cherylj> But it didn't have the changes
[18:25] <cherylj> Yes :)
[18:26] <ericsnow> cherylj: ah, "revision" 4 is the same as 3, right?
[18:26] <cherylj> yes
[18:28] <katco> cherylj: this was the change? https://github.com/cherylj/juju/commit/b9404581ae177ab7fcd9d3a12505c97405e3cc28
[18:29] <ericsnow> cherylj: hmm, as far as I can tell, the blank line you removed in your most recent commit is also gone in reviewboard
[18:29] <katco> ericsnow: yeah i was thinking that maybe RB's diff just is incorrectly hiding that
[18:29] <katco> i.e. it doesn't show it if i toggle the whitespace flag on the diff page
[18:30] <ericsnow> katco, cherylj: ah, right; I believe there is a setting in RB to ignore whitespace changes (or something like that)
[18:30] <katco> ericsnow: yeah it's in the bottom right of the control panel on the diff page
[18:30] <cherylj> Hmm, the change was more than that.  Let me see if I can find the commit
[18:30] <katco> ericsnow: but it doesn't seem to be working
[18:31] <katco> cherylj: possibly? https://github.com/cherylj/juju/commit/03a14eff116a4edc28dcaa398c50141b090788f7
[18:31] <ericsnow> katco: yeah, I noticed that too.
[18:31] <cherylj> katco:  yes, that's the one
[18:31] <katco> cherylj: ok so you just want to look at 2-4 then
[18:31] <katco> cherylj: it picked up that latest revision too which is "3"
[18:31] <katco> i mean 4
[18:31] <katco> "3" is the one you're interested in
[18:32] <cherylj> katco, 3 doesn't have the changes from the last commit
[18:32] <cherylj> (the last one you linked to)
[18:33] <katco> cherylj: did you make the changes in rapid succession?
[18:33] <katco> those last 2 commits?
[18:33] <cherylj> Yes
[18:33] <katco> ericsnow: perhaps the github hook only picks the last commit? and if you do many quick ones it won't pick up some?
[18:34] <katco> cherylj: you will want to install "review board tools"
[18:34] <katco> cherylj: and rub rbt post -u
[18:34] <katco> run even
[18:34] <ericsnow> katco: I'll check
[18:34] <cherylj> katco, thanks, I'll do that
[18:34] <katco> cherylj: https://www.reviewboard.org/downloads/rbtools/
[18:35] <katco> cd $GOPATH/src/github.com/juju/juju && rbt post -u
[18:36] <ericsnow> katco: well, the hook didn't fail so something else is afoot
[18:36] <katco> ericsnow: odd; can you tell if the hook grabbed all PRs, or only the last one?
[18:37] <ericsnow> katco: it simply records the PR event (in this case "synchonize") with all it's info
[18:38] <katco> ericsnow: but in this case there were multiple PR events, right?
[18:38] <ericsnow> katco: the hook then (on the RB side) makes a GH API request to pull the current diff for the PR
[18:38] <ericsnow> katco: each PR event would trigger the hook separately
[18:39] <ericsnow> katco: which is what happened
[18:39] <katco> hrm. interesting.
[18:39] <ericsnow> katco: and each time the hook did not fail
[18:39] <katco> ericsnow: well, the lesson is clear. don't be too productive. ;)
[18:40] <ericsnow> cherylj: when did you push those changes?
[18:40] <cherylj> ericsnow, about an hour ago
[18:42] <ericsnow> cherylj: okay, I see one "synchronize" event for you about an hour ago (not two or more)
[18:42] <ericsnow> cherylj: so if you did two pushes in rapid succession then it may be that github merged those into one hook event
[18:43] <ericsnow> cherylj: and it's conceivable that that situation resulted in some weird behavior on RB
[18:44] <ericsnow> cherylj: could you try refreshing your branch somehow (to trigger the GH hook again)?
[18:47] <cherylj> ericsnow, just did, and just got notification from RB...  let me look at the diff
[18:48] <cherylj> ericsnow, and it worked!
[18:48] <cherylj> thanks ericsnow, katco
[18:48] <katco> cherylj: happy coding! ericsnow is the RB master :)
[18:48] <ericsnow> cherylj: I'll chalk it up to github doing something weird that RB couldn't handle :)
[18:49] <ericsnow> katco: I wouldn't go that far :P
[18:49] <cherylj> hehe :)
[18:49] <katco> ericsnow: hehe :)
[18:49] <cherylj> I just got a call from day care and my daughter is not feeling well :(
[18:49] <cherylj> so, off I go
[18:49] <katco> doh
[18:49] <katco> hope she feels better cherylj
[18:49] <cherylj> me too, thanks katco
[19:22] <mbruzek1> kateco what is the flag for the one-line juju status output again?
[19:40] <katco> mbruzek1: whoops sorry, your ping didn't register. you can do short, line, or oneline
[19:40] <mbruzek1> kateco this is not in juju help status
[19:41] <katco> mbruzek1: hm what version? it is on mine
[19:41] <voidspace> right, EOW
[19:41] <voidspace> g'night all
[19:41] <katco> mbruzek1: (also, no e in katco if you want to ping me)
[19:41] <mbruzek1> oh sorry
[19:41] <katco> mbruzek1: no worries! :)
[19:42] <mbruzek1> 1.20.14-trusty-amd64
[19:42] <mbruzek1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9839141/
[19:43] <katco> https://github.com/juju/juju/blame/master/cmd/juju/status.go#L34-L35
[19:44] <katco> mbruzek1: i think it will be in 1.21, let me check
[19:45] <katco> mbruzek1: the "oneline" flavor is in 1.21
[19:45] <katco> mbruzek1: 1.22 will support all the flavors
[19:45] <mbruzek1> katco: Ok I will have to update to get that.  Thanks.
[19:46] <katco> mbruzek1: yeah looks like. sorry about that
[19:47] <katco> alexisb: ping
[19:57] <katco> sinzui: ping
[19:57] <sinzui> hi katco
[19:57] <katco> sinzui: hey, happy fri :)
[19:57] <katco> sinzui: just a heads up, it looks like all of the status related work got missed for the release notes
[19:58] <katco> sinzui: i'm adding it in, but i thought i'd let you know in case it's a process issue
[19:58] <sinzui> katco, thank you. dimitern also gave me some revisions. Just update the gdoc. I also made change for the official release next week
[19:59] <katco> sinzui: thanks, will do. just didn't know if there was a process issue that we might want to look at for next time. i honestly don't remember what all i worked on for v1.21
[19:59] <sinzui> katco, I read my history of merged branches.
[20:01] <katco> sinzui: weird, is it the status stuff not in there?
[20:02] <sinzui> katco, I see your changes that you demoed in Brussels.
[20:02] <sinzui> katco, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9839406/
[20:03] <katco> sinzui: ah ok, yup that's it :)
[20:03] <katco> sinzui: in addition to new filtering methods
[20:09] <katco> sinzui: thanks, this is my first involvement with our release notes, so i wasn't sure how this all worked. i've updated the document.
[20:28] <alexisb> katco, pong
[20:28] <alexisb> whats up?
[20:28] <katco> alexisb: hey it was just a question about the release docs
[20:28] <katco> alexisb: i think sinzui got me straightened away (see backlog)
[20:29] <alexisb> ah I see you and sinzui conversation below that cool
[20:29] <katco> alexisb: ty for responding :) and happy friday to you!
[20:29] <alexisb> katco, cool, sorry for the delay I just got back
[20:29] <katco> alexisb: no worries at all
[20:29] <alexisb> and happy friday to you too!
[20:31] <sinzui> alexisb, I am editing the 1.22-beta1 release notes. I thought MESS would be more complete for 1.22 https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1IPmXCwujtq8zZs9mlfps7wGcBYYv4MLC_8w2bN2CetQ/edit
[20:31] <sinzui> alexisb, I am wondering if the info in this doc is stale
[20:31] <alexisb> sinzui, let me go look
[20:32] <alexisb> sinzui, that info is correct, lots of it is there but is hidden behind feature flags and/or not exposed to the user
[20:33] <alexisb> MESS is definitely not targeted for 1.22
[20:36] <sinzui> alexisb, rock. then once I finish these notes, I will continue with the release of 1.22-beta1, which is already queued for release
[20:36] <alexisb> sinzui, you da' man! thank you


[06:53] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:54] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:55] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:55] <clobrano> good morning all o/
[06:57] <oSoMoN> good morning clobrano
[06:59] <duflu> Hi clobrano
[06:59] <clobrano> hi oSoMoN duflu
[07:49] <willcooke> what what
[07:50] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke
 Morning willcooke
[07:50] <willcooke> no alarm, just chipper
[07:51] <willcooke> although, half the toaster is broken, so not all good news
[08:03] <Laney> that's better
[08:08] <willcooke> morning Laney
[08:09] <duflu> Hi Laney
[08:10] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney duflu, how are you?
[08:10] <seb128> lur oSoMoN, en forme ?
[08:10] <willcooke> morning seb128
[08:11] <oSoMoN> hi Laney
[08:11] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, la forme, et toi?
[08:11] <duflu> Hi seb128. I seem to have a new back injury and not yet caught up on sleep. But otherwise going well.
[08:11] <duflu> You seb128?
[08:11] <willcooke> oSoMoN, seb128 - you guys going to swap a mid-week day off for something nearer a weekend?
[08:11] <seb128> oSoMoN, en forme !
[08:12] <seb128> duflu, :-( get better!
[08:12] <seb128> willcooke, I am, it's rainy/crappy weather, gf is working today and I like long w.e better than mid-week stops
[08:12] <oSoMoN> willcooke, I wish, but 8th of May is not a bank holiday here in Spain
[08:13] <willcooke> seb128, good plan.  oSoMoN, ah, bad luck
[08:16] <Laney> moin willcooke duflu seb128 oSoMoN
[08:16] <Laney> yeah, looks grim out there today
[08:19] <marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN duflu clobrano willcooke Laney seb128
[08:19] <willcooke> ahoy marcustomlinson
[08:19] <Laney> greetings marcustomlinson
[08:20] <Laney> your nickname above all others (excluding oSoMoN) makes me thankful for tab completion
[08:20] <marcustomlinson> haha
[08:20] <marcustomlinson> yeah oSoMoN is worse though
[08:20] <marcustomlinson> :P
[08:22] <duflu> XChat has no problem with case conversion:  os<tab> -> oSoMoN
[08:23] <duflu> Though it's kind of impersonal to admit to tab-completing someone
[08:23] <marcustomlinson> you're right duf
[08:23] <duflu> Strangely that thought reminds me of https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/374d/
[08:24] <duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
[08:25] <willcooke> gmail has tab completion for sentences now.  It's actually quite useful.
[08:26] <duflu> Just let your voodoo doll write the emails
[08:27] <oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
[08:28] <seb128> yeah, the gmail thing works quite well
[08:28] <seb128> that and "stock replies"
[08:29] <seb128> soon the IA will just respond to your email for you :)
[08:35] <marcustomlinson> stock replies are just great for passive aggressiveness. Let your recipient know in the nicest way that they're worth nothing more than a single click
[08:36] <duflu> 👍
[08:37] <seb128> can be useful when you are busy and want to give a simple "ack" reply
[08:37] <seb128> like you are in a meeting/on the phone and don't want to start typing
[08:38]  * duflu wonders if the facetious tone was conveyed in that emoji
[08:39] <Laney> ✅
[08:39] <willcooke> :D
[08:48] <oSoMoN> seb128, marcustomlinson has prepared LO SRUs for xenial and bionic, which include the fix for bug #1820062. This means gstreamer1.0-gtk3 needs to be promoted to main (the source package, gst-plugins-good1.0, is already in main), is that valid for a SRU ?
[08:48] <ubot5`> bug 1820062 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "LibreOffice Impress embed video problem (libreoffice-gtk3)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820062
[08:49] <marcustomlinson> only Bionic
[08:50] <duflu> Saviq, interesting use of the discourse site with https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/multipass-documentation-outline/8294
[08:50] <duflu> I can see pros and cons to putting it there
[08:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, is that only a recommends? I think that's fine in any case, I don't remember now if binaries can be moved between pockets in a stable serie or if that needs a no change upload of gst-plugins-good
[08:52] <seb128> were are due a gstreamer SRU to get the current point version anyway so that can be promoted with it if needed
[08:54] <oSoMoN> ok, cooll
[08:54] <oSoMoN> cool
[08:54] <marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: did we want this SRU'ed to Xenial too?
[08:54] <Saviq> duflu: that's how https://docs.snapcraft.io/ is built ;)
[08:54] <Saviq> http://forum.snapcraft.io/c/doc
[08:55] <Saviq> there's a bit of churn at the moment, but it will be less busy in the future ;)
[08:55] <oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, only if xenial is affected by the bug, and from the look of the bug report it's not
[08:56] <marcustomlinson> yeah
[16:06] <Laney> git stash poop # nope
[16:07] <marcustomlinson> XD
[19:03] <willcooke> night all


[00:28] <daftykins> haha i decided to search for where that software might have extracted - https://i.imgur.com/2C8pCog.png
[00:29] <daftykins> <300 KB of program, 24,666 KB of node
[00:29] <penguin42> ouch
[00:32] <daftykins> event viewer says it just crashes xD
[00:32] <zxmpi> you just have to rewrite it to make it work :-P
[00:35] <daftykins> that's a tall order for a free bag o' minstrels, maltesers, m&m's, skittles or a bar of galaxy
[00:38] <zxmpi> stolen food tastes better than unstolen food. a million lunch thieves can't be wrong :-P
[00:38] <daftykins> maybe a smarticle could take this contents and find a way to print multiple freebies xD
[00:38] <daftykins> one of the .js is full of links to projects it's using on github
[00:39] <zxmpi> the great skittle heist of 21. fame forever
[00:39] <daftykins> just need to tempt a dev, hmm
[00:39] <zxmpi> split the skittles 50 50
[00:39] <daftykins> :D
[00:40] <zxmpi> tastes like victory
[00:40] <daftykins> oh good news with that Netgear switch btw, ongoing testing at home - i confirmed that only ports 1-4 gave slow throughput from the internet over a wifi AP - finally got Netgear support to issue an RMA and so they have shipped a replacement to the client \o/
[00:41] <daftykins> that was the one that was causing slow WiFi etc, finally got to the root cause
[00:41] <daftykins> well, no explanation found... just something screwy with the first 4 ports
[00:45]  * penguin42 had a port go dodgy on his (PC based) router - an old old quad Tulip card
[00:46] <daftykins> this was brand new! only iperf showed throughput was absolutely fine wired to wired
[00:46] <daftykins> and in fact it was also quite speedy wifi to wired, but downloading an ISO from a VPS online was the smoking gun demonstration of the flaw
[00:46] <daftykins> ports 1-4: 50 KB/sec, all other ports: max of my connection
[00:47] <penguin42> oh fun
[00:50]  * zxmpi watches micromen for first time in a decade or so :-)
[00:54] <daftykins> enjoy! and with that, i think i will sleep
[00:54] <daftykins> ttfn \o
[01:00] <zxmpi> o/
[02:19] <m0nkey_> I have a confession to make. I'm quickly approaching 40. I just ordered my first pair of crocs. I'm not even sorry.
[11:52] <daftykins> m0nkey_: this is important though... do you have the socks to match? xD
[13:54] <diddledani> more "my willy is big and i'm gonna wave it!" https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/install-and-configure-wordpress/13959/41
[14:00] <daftykins> "apt install ubuntu" wat
[14:00] <daftykins> yeah that guy needs to be removed from that, totally unhelpful
[14:00] <diddledani> they meant apt install wordpress
[14:01] <daftykins> yeah, just a pretty amusingly glaring mistake
[14:01] <daftykins> also adding a period there on a command example is rather unwise
[14:01] <diddledani> hah. i didn't spot that one
[14:02] <diddledani> I dont understand where they got the idea. "oh you just want to argue" from
[14:02] <diddledani> I stated my reasoning, that's it
[14:03] <diddledani> 🙄
[14:03] <daftykins> yeah you hadn't said anything since the prior post for there to be any sudden ramping up of grump
[14:04] <daftykins> just saw this site linked from a post on thereg - these prices are suspiciously cheap: https://theunitysoft.com/
[14:05] <diddledani> i don't get the wide variation in prices for windows
[14:06] <daftykins> usually these super low ones are someone who set themselves up as a volume license source, then are breaking the terms of that by selling to consumers
[14:52] <m0nkey_> daftykins: naturally
[14:53] <diddledani> crocs and socks!
[14:53] <diddledani> yey
[14:54] <zxmpi> save the socks for your sandles when you become a linux sysadmin :-)
[14:54] <m0nkey_> i am a linux admin
[14:55] <zxmpi> blue socks and brown sandles it is then :-)
[14:58] <m0nkey_> now i need to grow a neckbeard
[14:58]  * penguin42 strokes
[14:59] <zxmpi> are you old enough for a neck beard, would a manbun be more appropriate? :-P
[15:11] <m0nkey_> is there really an age when you transition from bun to beard?
[15:14] <zxmpi> when the male pattern baldness kicks in :-P
[15:15] <m0nkey_> thankfully no family history of that
[16:21] <zxmpi> then i think you fall back to when common sense takes charge :-P
[17:25] <penguin42> zxmpi: I've always seen it as a matter of gravity
[17:28] <m0nkey_> gravity? i have that in abundance.
[17:33] <zxmpi> surround yourself with cats, learn to ignore gravity :-)


[15:23] <KurtKraut> Is it possible to hear a feedback/loopback through speakers of a microphone plugged to a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop? My mic works properly, I can record its audio. I'm trying hear the feedback but it seems impossible, even messing up with mixers.
[17:28] <tertl3> does jack have problems with ubuntu 64 bit?
[17:29] <tertl3> it seems very unstable