 guys, how do I say to Plasma 5.15.4 to show desktop icons on my second screen too? I have configured once to show them on the primary screen but now I do not know how to do the same for the new one, since both in right click menu and in "Configure Desktop" there is nothing referencing "Folder View" mode... … Thank you in advance!
 Bryan, right click on the 2nd screen, Configure Desktop, and select Folder View under Layout.
 (Photo, 728x573) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/G0FXjQYM/file_21688.jpg this is my "right click -> configure desktop", as I said, I cannot find the "Folder View" anywhere... … Thanks.
 Try the "Layout" drop down on that menu.
 Folder View should be one of the choices in the drop down.
 sh* … actually didn't think of that ever :P
 hahahaha sorry, … really thanks for the tip!
 np, I have done the same thing when it was first implemented.
 @DarinMiller, like "where the hell that settings went?" situation?
 'xactly
 Thank you Darin!
 Have a good one!
 You're welcome and same to you? :)
[07:46] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:47] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:18] <user|80425> Hello, joining from Kubuntu web. Can I know if the default Kubuntu 19.10 ISO supports non UEFI install i.e. MBR?
[13:19] <Bakkar> Hello, joining from Kubuntu web. Can I know if the default Kubuntu 19.10 ISO supports non UEFI install i.e. MBR?
 Bakkar: should be.
[13:22] <Bakkar> IrcsomeBot1: thank you
[13:41] <Bakkar> Hello aain guys, I have been trying to setup #Kubuntu next to windows. I did not have an EFI boot so I created a 500MB for EFI - as recommended by installer and formated fat32 - but after the install I am unable to access the boot menu. I have checked my BIOS and UEFI is enabled with Legacy support and even UEFI only does not boot. Any ideas?
[13:42] <Bakkar> can anyone help?
[13:44] <diogenes_> Bakkar, what happens when you boot the pc?
 Bakkar: when you have UEFI legacy support enabled you cannot boot UEFI-only operating systems, and vice versa when CSM is disabled.
 You can only boot UEFI-only operating systems together, and CSM OSes together but not a mix and match of both.
[13:45] <Bakkar> diogenes_: it says unable to boot and I have the grub fallback prombt
[13:46] <Bakkar> IrcsomeBot1: I have tried both with and without the legacy supports - Both did not boot. I thought may be something I need to manually confgure so I booted the LiveUSB and was checking if any boot repair advice you guys can point out to me
 Bakkar: then check your installation settings. … usually for UEFI installations you need a BIOSBOOT partition at the start of the disk (like 1MiB or so) for OSes like CentOS that requires it, then a 500MiB or so partition for EFI, then I suggest a 100MiB (at least) partition for `/boot` to leave out the boot configurations from any LVM2 or MDadm raid device, then your main OS `/` partition and optionally any other
[13:52] <IrcsomeBot1> subdivision partitions before your last `swap` partition. … I suggest allocating double your RAM amount of SWAP if you have at least quadruple the space in your hard drive (do not allocate 64 gigs of swap in a 120gb ssd, damn idiot), and being it at the end so you can resize and reinstall your OS and all it's partition with a "layout" already defined and saving time for future upgrades / OS swap (ubuntu->kubuntu->xubuntu->fedora or whatsoeve
[13:52] <IrcsomeBot1> you get the point), and that's basically it. … happy FOSS OS installs.
[13:55] <BluesKaj> Bakkar, if you use legacy bios you don't need efi boot
[13:55] <BluesKaj> or gpt partition table
[15:46] <sebu> are there any ubuntu users in China, using VPN?
[15:48] <sebu> I am new, maybe on the wrong channel
[17:14] <eeos> Hi everybody! Anyone who knows how to add appImage files to Discover Software?
[19:34] <IrcsomeBot1> Jakub Majer was added by: Jakub Majer
[20:26] <PerfMonk>  /msg NickServ identify ima001
[20:26] <westor> PerfMonk: change your password
[20:26] <PerfMonk> oups!
[20:28] <PerfMonk>  OK password changed. sorry for the noise.
[20:57] <qih> PerfMonk: That's your passwd o_0 ... my IRC one is 23 chars long, AlphaNum, Upper/Lower, Special chars <= maybe I'm a *bit* paranoid
 qih: erm... do you want to talk about my 64 character long 4 usual passwords I actually REMEMBER?
[22:15] <qih> Haha nope, you win, I can only remember (Just) upto 30 chars
[22:16] <qih> Passwds based on words like 'red' 'brick' 'three' 'jelly' then modifying the vowels to special chars is quite easy but when you go real random passwds using a strong seed ... not so much
[22:56] <LIION> CIAO


[03:48] <NoooBie> wth?
[03:49] <NoooBie> ok, can someoine help me?
[03:50] <NoooBie> no?
[08:33] <bambee> morning
[08:42] <bambee> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns4TPTC8whw o_O
[08:46] <valorie> damn, am I the only one with broken flash in 11.04?
[08:47] <valorie> says I have to download a plugin, but I already have it
[08:59] <micahg> bug 716311
[09:00] <valorie> hmmm
[09:04] <valorie> now this is making sense
[09:04] <valorie> thanks, micahg
[09:04] <valorie> I had an error in the upgrade, and I'll bet anything it was nsplugin
[09:05] <valorie> I was bleary, and it said it was fixed, but obviously it wasn't
[09:05] <valorie> uninstalling
[09:06] <micahg> valorie: you're welcome
[09:10] <valorie> http://paste.ubuntu.com/602155
[09:10] <valorie> reinstalling isn't going to work
[09:10] <valorie> :(
[09:10] <valorie> I guess it is just busted for awhile
[09:11] <valorie> I'll add to the bug
[09:11] <micahg> valorie: can you remove nspluginwrapper and reinstall?
[09:35] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you are now member of the akunambol overlords, plz pkg akunambol stuff for natty :P
[09:44] <debfx> bambee: that sorting dance needs some parallelization ;)
[09:44] <bambee> debfx: hehe
[09:44] <bambee> debfx: I did not find fusion or quick sort :'(
[09:46] <apachelogger> sort me here, sort me there
[09:46] <apachelogger> what are you talking about btw?
[09:46] <apachelogger> also quick sort is like insanely easy to implement :P
[09:46] <apachelogger> rbelem: are you doing a mobile spec?
[09:48] <bambee> apachelogger: fusion sort too
[09:49] <apachelogger> they all are :P
[09:49] <bambee> :P
[09:50] <debfx> easy to implement in code or as a choreography? ;)
[09:50] <bambee> apachelogger: http://wwwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns4TPTC8whw <--- we are talking about this dance
[09:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: maybe we should make a default-browser blueprint?
[09:51] <apachelogger> ah
[09:51] <apachelogger> best about that video is the music really
[09:52] <apachelogger> actually
[09:53] <apachelogger> everyone watch that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyZQPjUT5B4&feature=related
[09:53] <apachelogger> at UDS we could do bubble sort :P
[09:53] <valorie> if only I could
[09:53] <valorie> maybe html5 will work
[09:53] <debfx> apachelogger: you need to do some lobbying for bigger images: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-unity2d-qt-cdspace
[09:54] <apachelogger> html5 will work everywhere but rekonq
[09:54]  * apachelogger wonders why ScottK did not subscribe apachelogger :P
[09:54] <debfx> that would allow us to choose a browser based on a criteria other than cd space
[09:54] <apachelogger> well
[09:54] <apachelogger> I still like my plan better :P
[09:55] <apachelogger> using dvd as default distro media and cd as english-only
[09:55] <apachelogger> what do we have to talk about regarding community?
[09:56] <apachelogger> a plan for a cycle without the hot tub lad, getting more minions and marketing I have so far
[09:59] <valorie> I enjoyed give equal or more time to Kubuntu at the loco table this weekend
[09:59] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au9WctmSems&feature=related
[09:59] <valorie> I was burning almost as many kub CDs as Ubuntu
[09:59] <apachelogger> sweet
[10:00] <valorie> I couldn't find my kubuntu hat!
[10:01] <valorie> but there was a guy running around in one, and two fellows in kub shirts
[10:01] <valorie> :-)
[10:01] <valorie> I kept them supplied with stickers
[10:02] <valorie> I have discovered the sweetness of multi-system usb
[10:02] <valorie> 3 ISOs on my little 8 gig
[10:02] <valorie> might be able to squeeze an alternate on there too
[10:03] <apachelogger> ScottK is pointing a shotgun at alternates, dont you know
[10:03] <valorie> yes
[10:03] <valorie> but they have saved my life a time or two
[10:03] <valorie> or at least my sanity
[10:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-community
[10:06]  * apachelogger wonders if bluebrint == 1 session slot
[10:06] <apachelogger> if so, then packaging is too fat
[10:07] <valorie> heh, put DarkwingDuck on there too
[10:07] <apachelogger> valorie: on the packaging blueprint?
[10:07] <sheytan> apachelogger ping
[10:07] <apachelogger> pogo
[10:07] <sheytan> did you see the mock?
[10:07] <valorie> community
[10:08] <apachelogger> no
[10:08] <sheytan> apachelogger http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=209284142424964&set=a.179085805444798.36811.100000301383220&type=1&ref=nf
[10:08] <apachelogger> valorie: I don't think remote attendees ought to be considered curcial to a session :P
[10:08] <valorie> it says that is required
[10:09] <valorie> will it work without?
[10:09] <apachelogger> will what work?
[10:09] <valorie> if so, they shouldn't say it's required
[10:09] <valorie> subscribing without
[10:09] <apachelogger> why would it not work without
[10:09] <valorie> next time I'll try it that way
[10:09] <apachelogger> I would think the scheduler uses this information to build the schedule
[10:10] <valorie> right
[10:10] <apachelogger> i.e. first fill slots so that no crucial conflicts occur
[10:10] <apachelogger> then fill the rest with plunder
[10:10] <valorie> you can unsub me and I'll re-do
[10:10] <valorie> if you like
[10:10] <apachelogger> valorie: you need to do that :P
[10:10] <apachelogger> I cannot unsubscribe anyone
[10:11] <valorie> ok
[10:11] <apachelogger> sheytan: I just wanted a proxy page like wiki.kde.org :/
[10:11] <apachelogger> other than that it looks the sexy
[10:11] <valorie> ok, fixed
[10:11] <valorie> thanks, apachelogger
[10:12] <apachelogger> ehehe, fun, maco: accessibility is also mentioned in the topic notes I wrote in november or so ^^
[10:12] <sheytan> apachelogger well, what for a proxy like page when you can have a whole service with all the needed informations and stuff on it?
[10:12] <apachelogger> apparently we mentioned it at some point last UDS
[10:12] <apachelogger> sheytan: who is going to maintain it?
[10:13] <sheytan> apachelogger phonon devs?
[10:13] <apachelogger> I'd argue that their time is better spent doing development
[10:13] <apachelogger> that never worked out
[10:13] <sheytan> in other case, there's no need for such page that will only say that phonon exist
[10:13] <apachelogger> see what happend to kde.org and their billion subpages
[10:14] <sheytan> apachelogger how you can have a page without maintaining it?
[10:14] <apachelogger> sheytan: it goes "hai, this is phonon yayaydyayaya" then two buttons for developers, for users, the community
[10:14] <apachelogger> or somesuch
[10:14] <apachelogger> s/two/three
[10:14] <sheytan> same thing you can have here, but with a bit more informations
[10:15] <apachelogger> I see 7 tab thingies that need to be maintained
[10:15] <apachelogger> 1 < 7
[10:16] <sheytan> apachelogger stuff doesn't change that fast
[10:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: maybe we should have a dedicated marketing blueprint?
[10:16] <sheytan> that you can everyday do something with it
[10:16] <apachelogger> I realize we did not really go anywhere with what we talked about last UDS
[10:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: http://phonon.kde.org
[10:16] <apachelogger> in phonon stuff changes often enough to have a site with dated information now
[10:17] <sheytan> apachelogger let say so. If you want a page that have the same info as the current one, why do you need a new one?
[10:17] <apachelogger> I dont want the same info
[10:17] <apachelogger> I want no flipping info
[10:17] <apachelogger> I want links to wikis
[10:17] <apachelogger> so that if information gets dated everyone, but really everyone, can do something about it
[10:18] <sheytan> ok, ill try to remake it
[10:18] <apachelogger> thx
[10:19] <sheytan> buy you must know that i *hate* wikis ;d
[10:19] <sheytan> really
[10:19] <apachelogger> it is your job :P
[10:19] <apachelogger> just liek I *hate* python
[10:19] <sheytan> you have a page, on wich you have a link, with this link you go to wiki, and then you go to another one, etc
[10:19] <apachelogger> that does not mean they are not the right choice at times :P
[10:20] <sheytan> maybe not, but from a simple user point of view (like in kubuntu case) i want to have all stuff in one place (one page) not on thousands of wikis
[10:20] <valorie> there are good wikis, and bad wikis
[10:20] <apachelogger> sheytan: users should not know about phonon
[10:20] <valorie> unfortunately kubuntu/ubuntu wikis are rather difficult
[10:20] <valorie> KDE's are great
[10:21] <sheytan> apachelogger well, they do, couse when you open up systemsettings and go to multimedia whay fo
[10:21] <apachelogger> sheytan: phonon is something for the developer, and phonon.kde.org only needs some page so that old urls stay working
[10:21] <sheytan> what do you see?
[10:21] <sheytan> PHonon :)
[10:21] <apachelogger> sheytan: should not be that way
[10:21] <apachelogger> we dont have a better name yet though
[10:21] <sheytan> apachelogger the speaker test stuff should work too, but it doesn't ;)
[10:21] <apachelogger> arguably the whole configuration module is crap
[10:22] <apachelogger> like no user should need to change the backend
[10:22] <sheytan> yeah
[10:22] <apachelogger> and the device priority neither
[10:22] <sheytan> genau ;d
[10:22] <apachelogger> or if at all necessary the device priority should go into a sepearte thingy
[10:22] <apachelogger> anyhow
[10:22] <sheytan> and we still dont have video config ;d
[10:22]  * apachelogger tries installing visual studio 2010 for the 3rd time today ^^
[10:22] <apachelogger> sheytan: what would you configure there?
[10:22] <sheytan> dude, are you on windows?
[10:23]  * apachelogger is leaving kubuntu
[10:23] <sheytan> dunno, they just said it will be there :P
[10:23] <sheytan> ;(
[10:23] <apachelogger> sheytan: who did?
[10:23] <sheytan> apachelogger don't remember. Someone on planetkde
[10:23] <apachelogger> oh
[10:23] <apachelogger> I think that was about video capture :P
[10:24] <sheytan> possible :D
[10:24] <sheytan> anyway, we don't have it :D
[10:24] <apachelogger> because I did not let the video capture api get out of experimental
[10:25]  * sheytan is getting coffee, brb
[10:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: opinions on a QA blueprint? WRT LTS in the next cycle
[10:27] <valorie> I was trying to explain to a user with difficulties what phonon and backends were
[10:27] <valorie> it was pretty much impossible
[10:27] <valorie> sec
[10:28] <apachelogger> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/775429
[10:28] <apachelogger> I am the bug inside your bug
[10:28] <apachelogger> why don't we have liboxygenstyle.so in the workspace-dev package?
[10:40] <apachelogger> meh
[10:40] <apachelogger> tomorrow my laptop gets picked up :(
[10:44] <bambee> specs for UDS are still opened ?
[11:01] <valorie> good night, all
[11:03] <apachelogger> nini valorie
[11:03] <apachelogger> visual studio ftw!
[11:26] <steveire> shadeslayer: I want to help yes, but we need to coordinate and we're never online at the same time :)
[11:28] <apachelogger> sure you are, shadeslayer is just pretending to be busy half the day :P
[11:41] <rbelem> apachelogger, i will do that. yesterday i had no free time :-( but today i will
[11:42] <rbelem> and the fileshare specs too
[11:43]  * rbelem runs to college
[11:52] <apachelogger> rbelem: roger
[11:56] <sheytan> btw
[11:56] <sheytan> I can't install samba in natty by pressing the install  button in folder preferences dialog
[11:56] <sheytan> is this known?
[11:57] <sheytan> it says that kpackagekit may be incorectly installed
[11:57] <sheytan> but kpk works fine
[11:58] <ScottK> apachelogger: If there's QA stuff we need to discuss, I'd say yes.  Dunno what that would be though.
[11:58] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[11:58] <apachelogger> how to improve it, how to do ISO testing
[11:59] <apachelogger> how can we improve bug flow and triage
[11:59] <ScottK> apachelogger: Instead of a default browser blueprint, I'd say a package defaults blueprint as we need to discuss package manager too.
[11:59] <apachelogger> true
[12:00] <ScottK> apachelogger: Accepted the community one.
[12:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: If you've got energy for a QA discussion, I'll schedule it.
[12:03] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[12:03] <apachelogger> need to think about it a bit
[12:06] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: FWIW, if qapt/muon was accepted by the Debian qt-kde team as their package manager too, then it would be very easy for me to decide which one we should be using.
[12:12]  * apachelogger would like to use the USC btw
[12:12] <apachelogger> the app got a very nice color balance
[12:15]  * apachelogger reports bug against launchpad
[12:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-defaults
[12:21] <ScottK> Accepted.
[12:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: Ubuntu has a spec to consider shipping a crap browser no one uses, but is stable and then an installer to allow people to get FF/Chromium if they want it.  We ought to keep informed about this.
[12:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, I am the subscribed as essential to that
[12:24] <debfx> ScottK: do they even have a default package manager?
[12:24] <apachelogger> also since I wrote the installer, and they will have ot ship the Qt they would want to use existing code should it come to that :P
[12:24] <apachelogger> though I am sure mozilla will sue canonical if they switch browsers :P
[12:25] <ScottK> debfx: For Squeeze they had no gui package manager due to lack of suitable alternatives.  Prior to that they used Adept.
[12:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: that suggests that following a debian choice would be an insanely bad idea in terms of UX :P
[12:26]  * apachelogger notes that no gui is probably better than adept actually ^^
[12:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: I don't suggest blindly following.  I suggest that if they were using qapt/muon, then it would be very easy for me to say we should too.
[12:27] <ScottK> The reverse (if they don't pick), then I'd need to consider it more fully.
[12:28] <apachelogger> well
[12:28] <apachelogger> USC still pwns them all anyway
[12:28] <debfx> ScottK: so they didn't bother to package packagekit?
[12:30] <ScottK> They believe it to be fundamentally flawed.
[12:30] <ScottK> FWIW, I think they are correct, but I would have picked it as the least bad choice (as we did).
[12:31] <debfx> anyway I don't think it really matters what debian does in this case
[12:31] <debfx> we need to know if apper will be ready of oneiric and compare it to muon 1.2
[12:32] <jussi> apachelogger: have you heard anything about QML2 coming to android?
[12:32] <apachelogger> qml2 does not even have a release schedule
[12:34] <jussi> apachelogger: :D hehe
[12:35] <jussi> apachelogger: I suppose that lovely video thing you did (like 5 lines for a video???) is only QML2 though?
[12:40] <apachelogger> jussi: only for non-qml
[12:40]  * apachelogger only adds qml support as gsoc project now :P
[12:58] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh, another topic for QA ... symbol files for every KDE library in main as to prevent ABI breaks
[12:58] <ScottK> apachelogger: All libs in Main are supposed to have them (MIR requirement), so sure.
[12:58] <apachelogger> I am not sure all ours do :D
[12:59] <ScottK> No, I'm sure they don't.
[13:00] <ScottK> (no one went back and checked what was already in Main when they added that MIR requirement)
[13:00]  * apachelogger wonders if some day one of his launchpad wishes will get fixed
[13:00] <apachelogger> lol
[13:07] <jussi> apachelogger: good luck
[13:08] <debfx> apachelogger: have you tracked what debian does with DebianABIManager from pkg-kde-tools?
[13:09] <bambee> apachelogger: what is "scratch" on gitweb.k.o ? it's like playground ?
[13:09]  * apachelogger stopped tracking anything pkg-kde-tools as it is legacy in less than 6 months anyway
[13:09] <apachelogger> bambee: no, it is personal
[13:09] <bambee> ok
[13:09] <apachelogger> playground is asscoiated with a registered project on projects.kde.org
[13:09] <bambee> I was searching partitionmanager and I found it only under "scratch"...
[13:10] <apachelogger> scratch repos are asscoiated with lord user
[13:10] <bambee> lol
[13:12] <apachelogger> bambee: if there is no project on projects.kde.org there is no partitionmanager in git
[13:12] <apachelogger> (supposedly it would still live in svn
[13:12] <apachelogger> )
[13:12] <bambee> aahh
[13:12] <bambee> ;)
[13:15] <sheytan> apachelogger today i dreamed about vlc mobile ui
[13:15] <sheytan> really :D
[13:15] <sheytan> are you still interesting?
[13:17] <apachelogger> of course ^^
[13:24] <jussi> leftover wedding cake ftw.
[13:27]  * jussi offers apachelogger a peice.
[14:03] <Quintasan> Muon++
[14:04] <bambee> muon rocks :)
[14:07] <apachelogger> muonmypants
[16:19] <djszapi> Hi! How can I make notification for a package it is outdated ?
[16:49] <shadeslayer> valorie: any particular reason you use sudo with your rsync commands ? :D
[16:58] <maco> shadeslayer: im guessing a lack of permissions on the external drive
[16:58] <shadeslayer> maco: but .... how is that possible? .... unless you chown the whole external drive to root
[16:59] <maco> shadeslayer: mounted wrong umask
[16:59] <shadeslayer> ah ... possible
[17:16] <James147> Hey, where is the source for the new filesharing dialog for dolphin (ie http://www.kubuntu.org/files/11.04-release/kubuntu-natty-fileshare1.png) ?
[17:18] <ScottK> rbelem: ^^^
[17:19] <ScottK> IIRC it's a patch to kdebase.
[17:20] <James147> ScottK: do you know where it can be found?
[17:20] <ScottK> I think if you look in the kdebase package (apt-get source kdebase on an Ubuntu system running 11.04) it will be in the debian/patches directory, but rbelem will know for sure.
[17:22] <James147> ScottK: Whats the url where its stored (not currently on a ubuntu computer)
[17:23] <James147> ScottK: nevermind, i think I found it... Thanks for you help :0
[17:27] <rbelem> James147, did you find?
[17:28] <James147> rbelem: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/kdebase/4:4.6.2-0ubuntu1 right? havent found the relevent patch in it yet though
[18:23] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pokety poke
[19:14] <bambee> apachelogger: suppose I write userconfig in cpp , I need to create a lp project or we could add it to another place ? (like guidance or another project I don't know...)
[19:18] <ScottK> bambee: Why would you rewrite it?
[19:19] <maco> ScottK: because apachelogger told him pffft nobody in upstream kde uses python!
[19:20] <ScottK> Sigh.
[19:20] <ScottK> That's not actually true.
[19:21] <ScottK> bambee: If you want to get userconfig accepted upstream as a replacement for kuser, I'd focus on fixing it's bugs, of which there are a few, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/userconfig rather than on reimplementing a working package.
[19:21] <bambee> I think it would be more maintainable, some features like kauth would be used (kauth helper cannot be defined in python for example), also if we want to propose it to upstream it's apparently more appreciated to have it in cpp. Some kcmodules features are actually not available yet in python...
[19:22] <ScottK> OK.
[19:22] <ScottK> We're talking KDE 4.8 now anyway since we're ~at feature freeze for 4.7.
[19:22] <bambee> well, some people ask me to write in cpp, some other to keep it in python...
[19:22]  * bambee is a bit confused
[19:22] <bambee> apachelogger: ing
[19:23] <ScottK> I'd say you're doing the work.  Up to you really.
[19:23] <ScottK> It being in python isn't a barrier to upstream acceptance.
[19:23] <ScottK> dantti_ almost ported the printer dialogue stuff to C++, but it's still not, AFAIK, finished.
[19:24] <ScottK> I think better to get something upstream and port later if it makes sense than wait on the port, but as I said, if you're doing the work, up to you.
[19:26] <dantti_> ScottK: yup not finished yet, needing ppl to do it
[19:30] <bambee> ScottK: I am doing the work, but I am opened to suggestions ;)
[19:31] <ScottK> bambee: I'd talk to the kdeadmin maintainers and see what they say then.
[19:32] <ScottK> Ultimately they are the ones you have to convince.
[19:32] <bambee> ScottK: yup, you're right
[19:51] <bambee> ScottK: Bernhard Rosenkraenzer is still the maintainer ? his email does not exist anymore o_O
[19:51] <ScottK> bambee: No idea.
[19:51] <ScottK> Nightrose: Can you help bambee figure out who he should talk to about kdeadmin stuff?
[19:52] <Nightrose> ScottK: i can try
[19:52] <Nightrose> what's the problem?
[19:52] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:52] <ScottK> bambee: ^^^
[19:52] <ScottK> He wants to discuss having userconfig replace kuser upstream.
[19:53] <ScottK> (for KDE 4.8 since we're past feature freeze for 4.7)
[19:53] <Nightrose> i think kde-devel or even kde-core-devel is the right place for that
[19:53] <ScottK> BTW, in other news, I emailed lex79 and asked him to come back and help us survive the absence of our dear leader.
[19:53] <bambee> ok, I am eating, then I will ask on #kde-devel
[19:54] <Nightrose> bambee: i meant the mailing list but the channel is also a good start
[19:54] <ScottK> Anyone interested in koffice?  Riddell is the one that mostly works on it, but I TIL in natty, but don't care to do the merge.
[20:20] <rbelem> James147, it is in kdenetwork-filesharing
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Right now I'd be happy if I could find somebody to maintain packages for Debian so it can get in to unstable
[20:28] <apachelogger> bambee, ScottK: we did not suggest a rewrite for the sake of a rewrite, it would just as well get in as python app, there are various concerns such as less stop by contributors
[20:28] <apachelogger> compared to cpp
[20:29] <apachelogger> of course cpp has undoubtable quality advantages over python anyway when talking about software that exceeds 1k lines :P
[20:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.
[20:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: How about you.
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> I'm not sure if I'll have time to maintain a debian installation
[20:29] <ScottK> You should be able to do most work in a debian chroot on your Kubuntu box.
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> yeah, maybe a virtual machine wouldn't be too much work
[20:30] <ScottK> Even better.
[20:34] <apachelogger> emit(LionYawn);
[20:34] <neversfelde> ScottK: I packaged koffice in the past for several times. I f it is not too important to be fast, I can have a look at it this cycle
[20:34] <apachelogger> so I 'napped' for like 6 hours and am still tired
[20:34] <apachelogger> horrible
[20:34] <ScottK> neversfelde: Great.
[20:35] <apachelogger> awwwww, all my bugs are rated low
[20:35] <apachelogger> bug 775497
[20:36] <jjesse> how can you consider 6 hours a nap?  isnt that sleeping?
[20:36] <neversfelde> btw where is lex, I missed the reason why he is not active anymore?
[20:38] <vorian> knap time
[20:40] <apachelogger> jjesse: I was going for a nap
[20:40] <apachelogger> who'd have known I sleep for 6 hours straight
[20:40] <ScottK> neversfelde: Not sure, but I emailed him earlier today.
[20:41] <ScottK> It it's not dark outside, it's a nap.
[20:41] <neversfelde> ok
[20:41] <ScottK> It it/If it
[20:57] <maco> holy crap, kget slows down a system mightily
[21:05] <apachelogger> sheytan: can we get a better icon for cd shipment http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu
[21:05] <apachelogger> that looks like a scary mixture of crystal and oxygen
[21:05] <apachelogger> maco: it is austrian software, what do you expect... :P
[21:14]  * bambee needs help (see #kde-devel) xD
[21:30] <bambee> yuriy: ping. I need your approval to propose userconfig to upstream (into kdeadmin)
[21:31] <bambee> In fact, I can propose it myself. Only the upstream dev can
[21:31] <bambee> I cannot *
[21:33] <bambee> ScottK: kuser is unmaintained. good new :)
[21:33] <ScottK> maco: Great.
[21:33] <ScottK> maco: Sorry.
[21:33] <ScottK> Can't type today.
[21:33] <ScottK> bambee: Great.
[21:38] <ScottK> FYI, my powerz to schedule stuff for UDS are complete, so please ping me if you have specs that need to get accepted/scheduled.
[21:39] <sheytan> apachelogger sure, but do you have premissions to update it, or is it a part of the theme, and we need to wait years to update a single icon?
[21:40] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[21:40]  * apachelogger is suffering from migrane now
[22:59] <apachelogger> cool
[22:59] <apachelogger> our phonon gstreamer package is fishy
[22:59] <apachelogger> I dont get an icon in the kcm
[22:59] <apachelogger> whowantstofix?
[23:14] <apachelogger> debfx: did you merger the pkg-kde-tools yet?
[23:14] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: did you blog actually or did an exam get in the way? :P
[23:15] <debfx> apachelogger: no, still waiting for the lp team to fix the vcs import
[23:15] <apachelogger> forever and ever it will take
[23:15]  * apachelogger transits phonon-backend-gstreamer from cdbs to dh7
[23:20] <valorie> http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu is outdated -- it refers to free CDs being available
[23:23] <apachelogger> ohhh
[23:23] <apachelogger> Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')"] : Permission denied.
[23:23] <apachelogger> whut?
[23:24] <apachelogger> dputmypkgyoubstrd
[23:24] <apachelogger> valorie: did mark stop selling them?
[23:24] <apachelogger> ah, indeed
[23:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: ^ should be removed I suppose
[23:25] <ScottK> Done
[23:25] <ScottK> valorie: Gone.
[23:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: That's an LP bug.  Feel free to ignore it.
[23:26] <ScottK> wgrant: ^^^ Not fixed yet.
[23:26] <apachelogger> ah, roger
[23:27] <valorie> yay!
[23:27] <valorie> thank you
[23:27] <ScottK> No problem.
[23:28] <valorie> do we have someone in charge of the entire website?
[23:28] <valorie> could just search for links to shipit
[23:29] <ScottK> We do, sort of.
[23:30] <apachelogger> ahhh, it failed, I knew it ^^
[23:30] <ScottK> Several of us have edit access though, so feel free to let me know about other places that need fixing up.
[23:30] <valorie> Ok
[23:31] <apachelogger> FTR: I do not :P


[12:37] <skyrider> sivang: hi
[12:38] <sivang> hey skyrider! what's up?
[12:39] <sivang> doesn anybody have idea if when setting up apt pinning, I need to put in /etc/apt/apt.conf the ditro name in caps ?
[12:39] <sivang> like Warty , or warty?
[12:39] <sivang> plovs_work : ? :)
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: it doesn't matter IIRC
[12:40] <sivang> skyrider : ok thanks.
[12:40] <skyrider> I've published some photos of Ukraine you asked
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: I may be wrong ;)
[12:40] <skyrider> sivang: you can see this photos at http://kid.stu.cn.ua/~skyrider/photos/ukraine/
[12:41] <skyrider> sivang: it's just random photos from different places in my country: cities, villages etc.
[12:41] <sivang> skyrider : nice!
[12:42] <sivang> thank you alot
[12:42] <sivang> http://kid.stu.cn.ua/~skyrider/photos/ukraine/img010.jpeg.html << AMAZING VIEW
[12:43] <skyrider> sivang: you are welcome!
[12:43] <skyrider> sivang: you wouldn't believe but that photo I've made in the center of my city %-)
[12:43] <sivang> you know, we should maybe start some page on the wiki, each team and some personal photos of the members, their origin etc, care for the people part in Ubuntu :)
[12:45] <skyrider> sivang: good idea
[12:49] <skyrider> sivang: BTW what's about irc logs?
[12:49] <sivang> hmmm good you reminded me, let's ping mako :) again - I'll email him if can't get answer today. Sorry about that!
[12:50] <skyrider> :)
[12:50] <skyrider> BTW mako is awesome guy
[12:50] <skyrider> I've read his article today
[12:50] <skyrider> I'm impressed
[12:50] <sivang> where?
[12:51] <sivang> He a great guy, yes
[12:51] <skyrider> http://mako.yukidoke.org/writing/unlearningstory/StoryOfUnlearing.html
[12:51] <skyrider> I lake that essey very much
[12:51] <skyrider> s/lake/like/ :)
[12:52] <skyrider> s/essey/essay/ :)
[12:53] <skyrider> To much mistakes for one sentence
[01:04] <sivang> no prob
[01:04] <sivang> :)
[01:11] <sivang> skyrider : maybe you should mail him directly?
[01:11] <sivang> :)
[01:11] <sivang> I know he wouldn't mind.
[01:13] <skyrider> sivang: OK. I'll mail him tomorrow.
[01:14] <sivang> ok, great. sorry for not being that good service to you.
[01:14] <skyrider> everything great, Sivan. Forget it.
[01:15] <sivang> k
[01:21] <sivang> maybe you just compile too much code..:)
[01:23] <skyrider> sivang: You absolutely right! :)
[02:51] <robertj_> Hornbeck around?
[05:56] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) robertj_: I am now
[05:56] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) for a second at least
[06:54] (hornbeck/#ubuntu-doc) good night
[11:55] <pl0vs> hi guys
[12:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: hey :)
[12:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: did you read my question yesterday about your work on the faq-guide.xml?
[12:10] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yes, writing an answer right now, give me 10 minutes, more
[12:10] <pl0vs> ChrisH, good question btw
[12:11] <ChrisH> Uhm? 10 Minutes? Just expected a yes/no. :)
[12:19] <sivang> Morning all
[12:19] <ChrisH> sivang: hey, master...
[12:19] <sivang> ChrisH : Hi, What's happenin? :)
[12:22] <sivang> I've seen somewhere a call for a meeting, I don't think it would server us too good in this, we can straight up the new format matter over ML, IMHO :)
[12:22] <pl0vs> ok, mailed my reply
[12:22] <ChrisH> sivang: the little one is about to go to bed, my anti-headache pills are starting to be effective, I'm working on UTF-8 in irssi and wonder whether (I|we)'ll adopt horny's TOC structure
[12:23] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'm in favor
[12:23] <ChrisH> If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)
[12:23] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Is your faq-guide.xml anything different than the faq.xml regarding the contents (not the chunked structure)?
[12:23] <pl0vs> anybody knows a thing about man=pages here?
[12:24] <ChrisH> jup
[12:24] <pl0vs> mine is more up-to-date
[12:24] <sivang> pl0vs : what do you like to know?
[12:24] <pl0vs> it is faq.xml plus something
[12:24] <pl0vs> sivang, everything, in five minutes if you can
[12:25] <pl0vs> how do i edit them?
[12:25] <pl0vs> where is the source?
[12:25] <pl0vs> is it docbook?\
[12:25] <sivang> pl0vs : let's see, gemme a sec.
[12:25] <pl0vs> one
[12:25] <pl0vs> two
[12:25] <pl0vs> three
[12:25] <sivang> he hey
[12:25] <sivang> :)
[12:25] <sivang> sec = 10 minutes
[12:26] <sivang> in sivang's time :)
[12:26] <pl0vs> ah, ok
[12:26] <pl0vs> :-)
[12:26] <ChrisH> Could you all commit your changes? I could start to change the TOC structure.
[12:26] <pl0vs> ChrisH, you're talking about the book?

[12:26] <ChrisH> But the book in the /faq tree. ;)
[12:27] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and it will all be docbook?
[12:27] <ChrisH> Yes. Basically it's your work just changed to what John posted.
[12:28] <pl0vs> and you want to redo the faq to a book (just asking so i understand)
[12:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: From what I understood: we use our current FAQ in John's /faq repository, call it "User's Guide" or "Handbook", keep your <book> structure and just put the current content in the section structure as proposed by John
[12:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, ok, fair enough
[12:30] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Lead to a lot of confusion yesterday. :)
[12:31] <pl0vs> it's not so important how we go about solving stuff, many roads lead to the same place
[12:31] <pl0vs> we just need a clear path ahead of us
[12:32] <ChrisH> And I think that this time we are close enough to it.
[12:36] <sivang> just send me updates of what we are deciding :)
[12:37] <pl0vs> ChrisH,  what do you plan on doing, incorperating wiki-stuff or writing all from scratch?
[12:37] <ChrisH> For the protocol: "While sivan attended we decided to permanently block cenerentola, ask Mark for free beer and switched the Handbook from DocBook/XML to Microsoft Word 2004."
[12:38] <pl0vs> three out of four is ok
[12:38] <pl0vs>  cenerentola has been trolling?
[12:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'd like to take the currently articles we already collected in the FAQ and just not use the questions as a title but rather use the structure John proposed on the M.
[12:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Has he ever been doing anything else but trolling? ;)
[12:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, agree on the toc
[12:39] <sivang> hahah
[12:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, do we have an op for the chNNEL?
[12:39] <pl0vs> sorry, caps-lock
[12:39] <ChrisH> pl0vs: sivan and me currently... but you should also get the privs... moment
[12:40] <pl0vs> no prob, just so somebody trustworthy has it
[12:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, will you work on faq-guide or copy it to a new doc?
[12:41] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'd use your current chunked files.
[12:42] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Then we can distribute the pieces among us and start working without too much interference.
[12:42] <pl0vs> ok
[12:42] <pl0vs> agreed
[12:43] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Could you register with nickserv so I can give you op privs?
[12:43] <pl0vs> give it to plovs, not pl0vs
[12:43] <sivang> pl0vs : I need to see how to handle the already "FAQ" in the support area, I had trouble trying to remove it / change it.
[12:44] <pl0vs> or plovs_work
[12:44] <pl0vs> i am not at my own machine atm
[12:44] <sivang> It was added to the support section by mean of the CMS,
[12:44] <ChrisH> pl0vs: is plovs registered?
[12:44] <pl0vs> yes
[12:44] <ChrisH> pl0vs: why don't you use the same nick all the time?
[12:44] <pl0vs> but not atm, i have network problems at home
[12:44] <sivang> not an HTML upload - so, we would also be needing to check if we can TOC it, or have the TOC already made inside the HTML.
[12:46] <pl0vs> sivang, if we call this the ubuntu-guide then we can leave the faq? no?
[12:47] <sivang> I am going to try to erase it all together, or move it somwhere else, or opena new FAQ section :)
[12:48] <sivang> have we taken anything from there into the new , current DocBook FAQ?
[12:48] <pl0vs> sivang, everything
[12:50] <pl0vs> sivang, we just must make sure not to break too many links
[12:50] <pl0vs> people have been linking to faq-answers
[12:51] <sivang> ok, no problem. then a new section that is.
[12:52] <pl0vs> sivang, the curse of backwards-compatibility
[12:52] <ChrisH> Everybody in favor that I change the structure now? We would get a little chaos if you have uncommited changes.
[12:52] <sivang> what structure?
[12:52] <sivang> of what?
[12:52] <sivang> :))
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, go ahead
[12:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Great. :)
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/1993/ch931121.gif
[12:54] <sivang> ChrisH : heheh
[12:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, for the parents among us
[12:54] <sivang> hahaha
[12:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: :)
[12:55] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I like another strip, too... Calvin: "Dad, think of a number and I'll guess." Dad: "got it." Calvin: "Is it 239879?" Dad: "By God, how did you do that?" Calvin: "Hey, you are trying to get rid of me, right?" Dad: "No, you are psychic. Go show your mother." ;)
[12:56] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yes, calvin and hobbes is probably my fav
[12:56] <ChrisH> mine, too. Already ordered the last book I don't know for christmas. It's mandatory lecture in bed. :)
[12:56] <ChrisH> Even if you are not parenting...
[12:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, my brother showed them to me for the first time, but now he doesn't think it is so funny anymore (he as a real calvin himself now)
[12:57] <sivang> I dind't get the last one :(
[12:57] <ChrisH> sivang: Calvin wants to play number-guessing with his dad. And the dad just wants to get rid of Calvin. :)
[12:57] <pl0vs> sivang, subscribe to:  	http://www.livejournal.com/users/calnhobbes/data/atom
[12:58] <pl0vs> i have it in my bloglines
[01:09] <ChrisH> pl0vs: is the <!ENTITY... way the only one to include other files?
[01:10] <pl0vs> afaik yes
[01:11] <pl0vs> but i just copied it from somewhere else
[01:11] <ChrisH> Hmmm. I'm thinking about splitting the parts into different directories. But if I wanted to include sections from there we would still need to define all includes in the main file as opposed to the certain parts.
[01:12] <pl0vs> look in the gnome userguide, they have folders for the pics
[01:12] <pl0vs> but all defines are int he first file yes
[01:27] <sivang_away> pl0vs : apt-get source hello, then look inside the /man dir
[02:38] <sivang> pl0vs : here?
[02:38] <sivang> I just found out how to edit those manpages.
[02:39] <pl0vs> nice, how
[02:46] <ChrisH> sivang: vim?
[02:52] <sivang> ChrisH : sorry, not "how to edit"
[02:52] <sivang> where to find them
[02:52] <ChrisH> ah... :)
[02:52] <sivang> how to submit these to get included in the read package
[02:52] <sivang> I will do a quick wiki page in it, under DocDevel or something.
[02:53] <sivang> hmmm I should also update it to reflect oou new goal change.
[03:34] <hornbeck> ChrisH: are you here?
[03:40] <sivang> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UDPManPageTask
[03:41] <sivang> everybody please take alook
[03:45] <hornbeck> sivang: what has been going on, I thought major discussions was going take part on the mailing list?
[03:45] <sivang> hornbeck : I don't reckon too much :) Have you seen any apparent changes?
[03:45] <sivang> my wiki page is just some try to explain how to go about the fixing of man pages.
[03:46] <hornbeck> hold one sec
[03:46] <hornbeck> I am trying to find it in the log
[03:46] <hornbeck> ChrisH: If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)
[03:46] <hornbeck> he said that last night about the book
[03:47] <hornbeck> that is not right, that was never discussed
[03:47] <hornbeck> everything must go through the ML
[03:47] <hornbeck> (by the way this is about the book being moved)
[03:48] <sivang> I don't think he has done too much already, and if he did, it's only affecting his files, I'
[03:48] <sivang> sure he would discuss it more before he does antyhing widely
[03:48] <sivang> ChrisH : you here?
[03:48] <hornbeck> he is not answering
[03:49] <hornbeck> why do you not think a meeting is a good idea?
[03:52] <sivang> well, it can be a good idea, but why can't we just decided and direct thigns over ML?
[03:52] <sivang> no matter how we try to make the meeting accesible by time,
[03:53] <sivang> the ML has far more broad spread then the irc meetings :)
[03:53] <hornbeck> right, I understand that
[03:53] <hornbeck> but mailings do not hold the face to face feel of a meeting
[03:53] <hornbeck> you cannot get someone's right off reaction on a mailing list
[03:54] <hornbeck> thats fine
[03:54] <sivang> well, I really don't mind the meeting,
[03:54] <hornbeck> I must say though, that I am against what ChrisH is doing right now
[03:54] <sivang> but I would like to see the oppinions of more people..shame nobody responds to much on the ML
[03:54] <hornbeck> I will post to the list about it
[03:55] <sivang> not a problem, you deserve the right to sound your voice - and I don't think he is doing anything wrong, if you disagree just tell how, and make it clear how you want ot make it to go,.
[03:55] <sivang> what do you not agree with exactly?
[03:55] <hornbeck> him and I discussed everyone's involvment in the book
[03:56] <hornbeck> than it appeared he did not know the book existed
[03:57] <hornbeck> than he decided that the faq would become the book
[03:57] <hornbeck> that the work myself and a few others have done on the book would be discarded
[03:57] <hornbeck> and just what him and plovs have done will be added till everyone else starts helping
[03:58] <hornbeck> all of this without everyone's approval
[03:58] <hornbeck> this is something that should be decided by the team
[03:59] <hornbeck> his commint about  "If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)"
[03:59] <hornbeck> that is what really makes me mad
[04:00] <hornbeck> we where in the middle of discussion yesterday when he disappeared, so I figured we would take it back up today
[04:00] <hornbeck> not him decide to proceed without the team saying yes
[04:00] <hornbeck> that is basicly taking all the work that has been done offline "faq/book" discarding one and completly butchering the other
[04:01] <sivang> I think he wants to add the FAQ as a section UNDER the book :)
[04:01] <sivang> I'm sure this is what he meant.
[04:01] <sivang> we talked about it also
[04:01] <sivang> :)
[04:01] <sivang> THe idea is the adtop the book,
[04:01] <sivang> add sections to it,
[04:02] <hornbeck> I am hoping this is all a misunderstanding :-)
[04:02] <sivang> yes it is, I'm sure it is.
 his commint about  "If we have a majority of 3 we can start. ;)"
[04:02] <sivang>                                                                                ^^^
[04:02] <sivang> oops
[04:02] <sivang> notice the twink sign?
[04:02] <sivang> it was a joke
[04:02] <hornbeck> yes
[04:02] <sivang> :)
[04:02] <hornbeck> I hope so
[04:03] <hornbeck> he was pushing very hard yesterday for everything to be put into /faq on the svn server
[04:03] <hornbeck> there is no reason to when /book is already there
[04:03] <hornbeck> with the format and everything
[04:03] <hornbeck> I do not want /faq to be gotten rid of
[04:04] <hornbeck> does that make since?
[04:04] <hornbeck> we already have a /book
[04:22] <hornbeck> sivang: you leave?
[04:25] <hornbeck> well I am going to work on a car
[04:25] <hornbeck> later
[04:32] <ChrisH> Sorry... needed to keep the baby busy.
[04:32] <ChrisH> I'm about to commit the new structure. Just a few minutes.
[04:40] <pl0vs> ChrisH, did you read the log? hornbeck does not seem too pleased
[04:40] <ChrisH> Oops. No, I didn't.
[04:40] <ChrisH> But I asked him about four times how we are going to do it. And up to the last I didn't get him clearly. I asked Sivan and he couldn't tell me either.
[04:41] <ChrisH> I can't see anything that did not go through the ML. What I was doing today is exactly what I was proposing.
[04:41] <ChrisH> Somebody tell me what's wrong.
[04:42] <ChrisH> It was my suggestion to merge the book and the FAQ right from the beginning.
[04:43] <sivang> I don't know what's wrong either, didn't he agree to put the faq to be a secion in the book?
[04:43] <ChrisH> The "If we have a majority" had a smiley added (!) and was just a question if the proposed (and approved) merge could begin now. It was a matter of "when" and not of "if".
[04:43] <ChrisH> Yes, he did.
[04:44] <ChrisH> It has been quite a bit of work today to get it done like this. At which point did we not agree to merge it? Do I need a lawyer to translate postings?
[04:45] <ChrisH> Everybody should know that I'm not the "I ignore others" type. I like 90% consensus and 10% action.
[04:45] <sivang> yes I know :) Shame he always goes away when you come in :)
[04:45] <ChrisH> Just when I thought we agreed on something...
[04:46] <sivang> He wanted to do a meeting also about that,
[04:46] <sivang> I didn't see so much how a meeting can help us
[04:46] <sivang> and I noted to him that you had the ;) next to sentence there.
[04:47] <ChrisH> Don't mean to offend hornbeck but neither do I. Since we have this fine channel I see no need for an additional meeting. (Other than that the timezone differences are bad.)
[04:47] <ChrisH> <quote hornbeck>
[04:47] <ChrisH> I get more and more confused everyday.  I think that I should be working
[04:47] <ChrisH> on the book, but also trying to help maintain the faq, gnome-guide,
[04:47] <ChrisH> wiki, and in the end I don't get much done because I am stretching
[04:47] <ChrisH> myself to thin.  I think avoiding double-work is a great idea, and in
[04:47] <ChrisH> the original idea for the book, I was going to mainly take other bits
[04:47] <ChrisH> and pieces and tie them together from the wiki and debian docs and such
[04:47] <ChrisH> so that it would incorporate all the docs already there.
[04:47] <ChrisH> </quote hornbeck>
[04:49] <ChrisH> I wanted to have the whole doc mess cleaned up and merged. Why is he going to work on a book that is can't handle because he is alone?
[04:50] <sivang> I've pinged enrico
[04:50] <sivang> I'll want him to help us straight this out.
[04:50] <ChrisH> Good idea.
[04:51] <ChrisH> I don't mind doing it like this or that. But we need a direction. I really don't feel like editing documents that are merged, joined, thrown away and started from scratch.
[04:51] <pl0vs> in the end we all want the same, we want this thing to go ahead, and we might be calling the same thing with differnt names
[04:51] <ChrisH> pl0vs: The only thing that is unclear to me: do we merge everything into a handbook? Or do we have John's book and a collection of FAQs.
[04:52] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Not *those* pills. ;)
[04:52] <pl0vs> i do not care either way
[04:52] <pl0vs> the only thing i do not want is wasted work
[04:52] <pl0vs> we should try to keep what we have
[04:53] <pl0vs> moving it around is no problem, nor is naming it diffrently, faq, book, hornbecks book chris's faq, whatever
[04:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, are hornbeck's files in docbook?
[04:54] <pl0vs> ChrisH, can they be merged?
[04:54] <ChrisH> pl0vs: They are in DocBook and very similar to our work.
[04:55] <pl0vs> ChrisH,  how much work would it be to merge it all in one doc?
[04:56] <ChrisH> Let's see...
[04:56] <pl0vs> one hour, two, a week, forever?
[04:57] <ChrisH> Hardly any work. He has just started on "his book".
[04:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but the toc is good?
[04:58] <ChrisH> To make it clear what I intended: John's book structure is nice - I like it. I just wanted to put our current little articles into his structure.
[04:59] <pl0vs> so if i understand it right, the only thing that ticked of john is either a misunderstanding of what you are doing or he didn't like you moving his bok in the faq directory and calling it faq, right?
[04:59] <pl0vs> then it might  be easy to straighten it out, afaik
[05:00] <ChrisH> It probably is.
[05:01] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and you wanted to add all the stuff from the wiki in the book?
[05:01] <sivang> he just misunderstood.
[05:01] <ChrisH> Yep.
[05:01] <sivang> I'm sure of it
[05:02] <ChrisH> I assume he saw me taking away "his book". But as he said he cannot handle it alone and we don't want to do double-work it seemed only logical to me to join those two documents.
[05:03] <pl0vs> ChrisH, why don't you make a proof-of-concept?
[05:04] <pl0vs> ChrisH, then we discuss that, vote, whatever and get back to work
[05:04] <sivang> ChrisH : I stand behind every word :)
[05:05] <sivang> we can do a ML voting maybe
[05:06] <pl0vs> ChrisH, sivang did you read john's lates mail to the list? it is what we are *all* talking about
[05:06] <pl0vs> newcoolubuntudoc = docbook(book + faq)
[05:06] <ChrisH> I agree that the faq should not be ditched.  I think what we have should
[05:06] <ChrisH> be moved up and maybe branched in with the book.  I do not support just
[05:06] <ChrisH> trashing the faq by any means.
[05:07] <sivang> pl0vs : I like your notation :)
[05:07] <ChrisH> That's what John wrote. And that's exactly what I intended.
[05:07] <ChrisH> No matter if it's /faq or /book. We'll surely find a location and ditch the other tree.
[05:08] <pl0vs> sivang, i am at another computer, what is the svn address of the book?
[05:08] <sivang> then we do not have a problem at all :)
[05:08] <sivang> hmm, I wouldn't know..:)
[05:08] <pl0vs> sivang, pfew, i'm happy about that, i do not like fighting
[05:09] <sivang> me neither
[05:13] <hornbeck> are we all here?
[05:14] <hornbeck> I am back and just read the log
[05:14] <hornbeck> I apologize to ChrisH, I misunderstood what he was talking about
[05:14] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What do you think? Everybody picks a part of the book and merges the FAQ sections there?
[05:15] <hornbeck> I have reread all of the post and everything, I was very confused about the direction and being mad already I read the "if we have three" post as a literal
[05:15] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What if I finish the work on what I currently have in the /faq repository (includes your works on the book) and commit that? Nothing will get lost.
[05:15] <hornbeck> ChrisH: sounds good to me
[05:15] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Thanks. :)
[05:16] <hornbeck> sorry I jumped the gun :-)
[05:16] <hornbeck> and it is not "my book"
[05:16] <hornbeck> it was a book I was working on
[05:16] <ChrisH> hornbeck: I'll still be off for 30-60 minutes. So the commit will be probably in about two hours. I think we will all be happy.
[05:16] <hornbeck> ChrisH: I hope so
[05:16] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Okay... just thought our emotions came in the way of the work.
[05:17] <hornbeck> well we seem on the same page now
[05:17] <hornbeck> so everything is going to be in the /faq directory?
[05:20] <hornbeck> I am off for a few hours, please go ahead and merge and we will work out details later
[05:53] <pl0vs> sivang, awake?
[06:01] <sivang> yes, hre
[06:01] <sivang> herhe
[06:03] <pl0vs> i am looking at the man-pages atm, thanks for the page
[06:03] <pl0vs> i was hoping we could have some svn repo, but it will just be in the packages
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, you would need to change the packages themselves. :(
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Perhaps you extract the man page, correct it, create a "diff" and send it through bugzille.
[06:04] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Same old story: nobody but canonical is supposed to upload "main" packages.
[06:04] <sivang> yes, my understanding says that we just send patches to bugzilla and the packg maintainers would take care of this.
[06:04] <sivang> yes
[06:05] <pl0vs> sivang, how is the gnome-guide, you did some work on that right?
[06:05] <pl0vs> ChrisH, well, i have upload status, afaik, or at least i could get it
[06:06] <sivang> you looked at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UDPManPageTask ?
[06:06] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but i prefer diffing to bugzilla for the time being
[06:06] <ChrisH> pl0vs: for "main"? really?
[06:07] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i did not really look into it as i am not planning to use it atm, but afaik i am a maintainer and have the right to upload packages yes
[06:07] <sivang> pl0vs : you were approved on the last CC meeting right?
[06:07] <sivang> That's interesting/
[06:07] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm not sure about that. But I'm not even a maintainer. :)
[06:08] <pl0vs> ChrisH, but i would prefer starting on something unimportant, maybe apt is not the right package to experiment with...
[06:08] <ChrisH> pl0vs: If you just change the man page... that should be fine. :) You just needed to rebuild the package and that's it.
[06:09] <sivang> pl0vs :  I think sabdfl noted that he wouldn't want to see people who were supposdly working on docs to commit packages..
[06:09] <sivang> before they get enough approval by the TB
[06:09] <sivang> he noted something about someone doing so being "a social problem" as they currently lack the infrasructure to enforce that.
[06:10] <pl0vs> sivang, i agree with him, and i am not (yet) planning to do any of the kind
[06:11] <sivang> well, that just solves my pkging grief maybe :) I had talked to seb128 on the yelp packages, wanted to help on it and eventually this got form as me sneding the patch to bugsilla,
[06:11] <sivang> he asked jdub and the conclusion was they want to keep main packages at canonical hands in the meanwhile.
[06:12] <pl0vs> sivang, not everybody has the same opinion, read the cc-meeting sabdfl is the most liberal, jdub (if i remember right), more conservative
[06:13] <hornbeck> sivang: as far as I understood, once we had our gpg keys signed well enough and understood packageing maintainers could upload fixes
[06:13] <hornbeck> I was told that once my key is signed by a decent amount I could upload
[06:13] <pl0vs> Hoodster, that is what i understood as well, but i do understand they do not want newbies to mess up main
[06:13] <sivang> btw, on hoary you can already use the official package - my patch is already incorporated into it.
[06:13] <pl0vs> that was supposed to be hornbeck
[06:14] <hornbeck> pl0vs: correct, they want us to have some experiance first, but in time we will have upload status
[06:14] <pl0vs> sivang, does the new yelp read apt man-pages in xml?
[06:15] <hornbeck> is evolution broke in Hoary for anyone else?
[06:15] <hornbeck> it stopped working today
[06:15] <sivang> pl0vs : provided that XML is DocBook enough, I guess that it can.
[06:15] <hornbeck> :-(
[06:15] <sivang> hornbeck : might be, I got really tired with that, switched to mutt and thunderbird in the meanwhile
[06:16] <hornbeck> I just moved my mail to the server
[06:16] <pl0vs> sivang, could you try: apt-get source apt, and in the doc folder try one of the xml files?
[06:16] <hornbeck> really need to get it fixed though so I can use it on my laptop again
[06:16] <pl0vs> hornbeck, gmail,gmail!
[06:16] <hornbeck> pl0vs: I am not a big fan of online mail
[06:16] <hornbeck> I like evolution
[06:17] <hornbeck> I am thinking of moving to cvs so I can keep track of it
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, it has pop-access as well
[06:17] <sivang> pl0vs : yes why not, is this where my bug is sitting? (of the sources.list)
[06:17] <hornbeck> pl0vs: even with pop access if I have no reader than it will not work
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, if evo does not work you have web-access
[06:17] <pl0vs> hornbeck, and if  it does you have evo
[06:18] <hornbeck> I have web-access to my mail anyway
[06:18] <pl0vs> hornbeck, or you must set up imap on your server and use evo or mutt
[06:18] <hornbeck> I just prefer evo
[06:18] <pl0vs> hornbeck, imap?
[06:18] <hornbeck> imap?
[06:18] <sivang> imaps rocks
[06:18] <sivang> mutt also
[06:18] <hornbeck> what is imap may I ask?
[06:19] <pl0vs> hornbeck, ah, that is pop as it was meant to be
[06:19] <hornbeck> I will look into that real quick
[06:19] <pl0vs> hornbeck, search "pop vs imap" on google
[06:20] <hornbeck> I am reading a imap page right now
[06:20] <sivang> pl0vs : we need to convert it, it doesn't like this form of xml files.
[06:21] <pl0vs> sivang, hmm too bad, converting it would mean moving far away from  debain
[06:21] <sivang> pl0vs : what kind of xml is this?
[06:21] <pl0vs> sivang, which means a lot of maintenance
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang,  refentry
[06:22] <sivang> I am not sure yelp is the right tool to display man pages in the desktop
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang, ?????
[06:22] <sivang> there's GUI man page readers
[06:22] <pl0vs> sivang, i humbly disagree
[06:22] <sivang> like xman and it's more civilized desendents.
[06:23] <pl0vs> sivang, we should have one of-line doc-reader
[06:23] <pl0vs> sivang, but i remmeber talk about making yelp man-page friendly
[06:24] <sivang> I don't recall, I might be mistaken
[06:25] <sivang> I am checking again,
[06:25] <sivang> topday os the GNOME love day dedicated to yelp btw :0
[06:25] <sivang> :)
[06:26] <hornbeck> anyone know of a good tutorial about setting up a mail server?
[06:26] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Yes. ;) But it depends what you want to do.
[06:27] <sivang> pl0vs : yes there are plans to use it for man pages reading :)
[06:27] <sivang> you rememebred right.
[06:27] <sivang> my memory starts to fail on me I guess.
[06:28] <pl0vs> hornbeck, be nice to ChrisH he is our local mail deity
[06:29] <ChrisH> Nah... nobody needs to be nice to me because of that. ;)
[06:29] <pl0vs> hornbeck, say the magic words: i want postfix+courier
[06:30] <ChrisH> pl0vs: My irssi is set to auto-exit if it senses "postfix", "courier" and "mysql" in the same line. :)
[06:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i removed mysql (on purpose)
[06:30] <sivang> hahaha
[06:30] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what do you prefer for imap?
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: courier.
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I switched even my local mailboxes to courier a few weeks ago. The maildir structure is a little ugly but it works well with mutt.
[06:31] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I had the uw-imapd running for myself and the courier-imap for the users. Not very slick to run two daemons on two interfaces.
[06:32] <ChrisH> pl0vs: And sivang is testing my mail server regularly so I don't need a network monitoring program. :)
[06:32] <pl0vs> ChrisH, does he have an account on your server, smart move, free checking of up-times
[06:32] <hornbeck> ChrisH: I want to set up a mail server for me
[06:33] <hornbeck> right now my @freeshell.org account gets overloaded
[06:33] <hornbeck> I recieve about 500 email a day
[06:33] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes... I set him up sivan.workaround.org and an email account. Seems to work so far.
[06:33] <ChrisH> hornbeck: Do you already have a domain and MX entry pointing to your mail server?
[06:33] <pl0vs> ChrisH, nice to know where to beg if i evr need an account :-)
[06:33] <hornbeck> no, I don't even know where to start
[06:33] <hornbeck> I am looking for a tutorial
[06:34] <hornbeck> or a site to start me in the direction
[06:34] <hornbeck> looks like I found one
[06:34] <hornbeck> nevermind
[06:34] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm moving a server to a computer room in a few days. Then we'll have plenty of space and bandwidth. If you need a subdomain, email accounts or whatever... just ring.
[06:34] <hornbeck> I have to run guys
[06:34] <hornbeck> need to fix a car
[06:34] <ChrisH> hornbeck: you should start here: http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html
[06:35] <sivang> pl0vs : http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/yelpshots/yelp-ls.png
[06:35] <pl0vs> ChrisH, thanks, i'll keep it in mind
[06:35] <sivang> but it's only usable from CVS HEAD,
[06:35] <ChrisH> sivang: no problem... I like it that you share your intimate emails with me :)
[06:36] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i like your tutorial more actually
[06:36] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Thanks. :)
[06:36] <pl0vs> ChrisH, and the postfix book from oreilly as well
[06:36] <ChrisH> sivang: Did you read that I have maillog.workaround.org up now? Everybody can read your mailbox. What a great service. You don't even need to log in. That's very convenient, isn't it?
[06:37] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Haven't ordered it. I still need to read other books. And I wonder if there is a Python book from them.
[06:37] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's not that good, if you can write your tutorial you do not need the book
[06:38] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i can show you if you want in spain\
[06:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, I'm curious.
[06:38] <ChrisH> In fact I learned a lot in #postfix and on the mailing list.
[06:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, remind me a day or so before, then i'll bring it
[06:39] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Isn't it too heavy for the plane? It's not that important.
[06:39] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i only bring one small bag, no problem
[06:40] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Just one set of clothes for 4-5 days? Uuuh. :)
[06:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i have a really handy suitcase, and small-foldable clothes, i travel often and light
[06:41] <pl0vs> ChrisH, don't worry i don't smell :-)
[06:42] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'm married now, those days are over
[06:42] <pl0vs> sivang, nice the new yelp, is it in hoary or only in cvs?
[06:43] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I thought men begin to smell again once they are married. :)
[06:44] <sivang> cvs
[06:47] <pl0vs> ChrisH, about python, you should shop around but i like:  O'Reilly.Learning.Python.2nd.Ed.2003 (i have a chm copy, i plan to buy the book)
[06:47] <pl0vs> ChrisH, o'reilly as well
[06:47] <ChrisH> Nice.
[06:48] <ChrisH> I was reading an URL mdz showed me. But I would like to have something like the "Perl Cookbook" in Python.
[06:48] <pl0vs> ChrisH, python cookbook?
[06:48] <ChrisH> My first Python scripts will probably just be Perl with another syntax. But the philosophy seems to be different.
[06:48] <ChrisH> pl0vs: There is a cookbook? Nice.
[06:50] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i have it as pdf if you want to check before you buy?
[06:50] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's a pain to read from a screen, but ok to check it out
[06:50] <ChrisH> pl0vs: With pleasure.
[06:51] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I'm one click away from buying it on amazon. :)
[06:52] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it's 1.8 mb, should i mail it?
[06:52] <sivang> ChrisH : what book is this?
[06:52] <ChrisH> pl0vs: yes, please
[06:54] <sivang> ahhhh! just saw the message regarding maillog! no!!!
[06:54] <sivang> :)
[06:54] <ChrisH> sivang: :)
[06:54] <sivang> btw, what book are you talking about? can I also get a copy?
[06:54] <ChrisH> Python Cookbook
[06:55] <sivang> ayh!
[06:55] <sivang> splendid
[06:55] <ChrisH> I'm sure I can catch up the basics of Python online. But I probably need some recipes on how to do what.
[07:01] <pl0vs> ChrisH, /usr/share/doc/diveintopython/html/toc/index.html and the python docs are quite good as well
[07:02] <sivang> pl0vs : how much are you already into python?
[07:02] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Yes, diveintopython is really nice. I started to dream of "everything is an object". :)
[07:03] <sivang> everything IS an object :)
[07:04] <ChrisH> sivang: You better not try to flirt with girls with that slogan...
[07:07] <pl0vs> sivang, not far enough, i'm afraid
[07:15] <pl0vs> where is whois?
[07:15] <ChrisH> ?
[07:15] <pl0vs> the command, i don't have it
[07:15] <ChrisH> for IPs?
[07:15] <ChrisH>  /whois pl0vs
[07:16] <pl0vs> no to look up my domain
[07:16] <ChrisH> pl0vs: www.internic.net for .com
[07:16] <ChrisH> pl0vs: or my favorite site: www.dnsstuff.com
[07:16] <pl0vs> dig, ping, whois etc
[07:16] <pl0vs> the whois command does that
[07:18] <ChrisH> The QWERTY effect. ;)
[07:28] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what is the opposite of ctrl-p in vim (search forward)
[07:28] <ChrisH> pl0vs: n
[07:28] <ChrisH> = net
[07:28] <ChrisH> = next
[07:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: Do you know the vim command for opening the filename the cursor points at? There is "K" for man pages. I swear I once saw that for files.
[07:29] <ChrisH> pl0vs: would be really handy for this document
[07:31] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i know it exists...
[07:31] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i mean ctrl-p for completion, p is backwards completion
[07:33] <ChrisH> pl0vs: ah. ctrl-n of course :)
[07:33] <ChrisH> next/previous
[07:43] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i had an override in my bashrc, duh
[07:44] <pl0vs> ChrisH, imap \fn   <C-R>=expand("%:t:r")<CR>
[07:45] <pl0vs> ChrisH, this inserts it
[07:45] <ChrisH> oops
[07:53] <pl0vs> ChrisH, you working on the faq-book-guide?
[07:54] <ChrisH> Yes... I'm in the last chapter of John.
[07:54] <ChrisH> Was a little more work. But I think it's worth it.
[07:57] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i am really curious, i svn update every 5 minutes
[07:57] <ChrisH> :)
[07:57] <ChrisH> I think I'll keep that for myself, ask O'Reilly and get richer than Mark. ;)
[07:58] <ChrisH> "hornbeck" is just another of my nicks to distract you. :)
[08:11] <ChrisH> DONE!
[08:12] <pl0vs> ChrisH, great!
[08:12] <sivang> so it the faq and book merged already?
[08:12] <sivang> :)
[08:13] <ChrisH> yes... one moment though... some files are not yet added
[08:13] <pl0vs> ChrisH, what does this do? i don't get it:    <para>Uses HTTP to access the archive at archive.ubuntu.com, and uses only
[08:13] <pl0vs>    the hamm/main area.</para>
[08:13] <pl0vs>    <literallayout>deb http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive hamm main</literallayout>
[08:13] <pl0vs> uses onl the hamm/main area. ????
[08:14] <ChrisH> NOW!
[08:15] <pl0vs> ChrisH, it even has icon-like pictures!
[08:16] <ChrisH> Please read the README. I invested some time cleaning the titles and reference IDs.
[08:17] <ChrisH> It would be nice if we have a consistent formatting and syntax.
[08:17] <ChrisH> I pray this is okay for everyone.
[08:18] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i do not see many faq-issues
[08:19] <pl0vs> ChrisH, will they be merged or will they stay seperate?
[08:19] <ChrisH> pl0vs: They are still in the parts/old directory.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: My idea would be that everyone picks a chapter and grabs the FAQs that fit into his sections from the old/ directory.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I know this doesn't look like much work - but it was. If I made you wait until I distributed and rewrote the old FAQ it had taken another day.
[08:20] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I hope everybody can cut out the pieces from there.
[08:20] <pl0vs> ChrisH, ok, i had a really long and good sounding question but it is no longer necessary to ask...
[08:21] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i know, i redid the faq
[08:21] <ChrisH> pl0vs: did you send the PDF to gmail? I'm curious. :)
[08:21] <pl0vs> ChrisH, yesterday already
[08:21] <ChrisH> pl0vs: tnx
[08:22] <ChrisH> pl0vs: I have used xincludes instead of entities now for including files. That way it's a little more clearly laid out and it works recursively.
[08:24] <ChrisH> Okay... thanks for the discussion. I hope everyone feels okay about this one. So let's pick our pieces and get ready to rumble. ;)
[08:24] <ChrisH> I'll take the rest of the day off. But just tell me if we need to change anything or if someone objects.
[08:27] <pl0vs> ChrisH, i'll send a write-up to the ML
[08:38] <ChrisH> pl0vs: tnx
[08:45] <sivang> pl0vs : I think I'll start with the 3 subsections under the 'about'
[08:45] <sivang> pl0vs : boy it looks great1
[08:46] <sivang> ChrisH : Well Done!
[08:46] <sivang> How did you make it look in yelp that good?
[08:47] <sid77> hi
[08:58] <ChrisH> But let's hear what hornbeck says. ;)
[08:58] <sivang> ChrisH : it's superb
[08:59] <sivang> hi sid77
[08:59] <ChrisH> sivang: Thanks. But it's still only the TOC and the article about installing Ubuntu from John.
[08:59] <ChrisH> sivang: Now comes the part for everybody where we can work on.
[09:00] <sivang> ChrisH : I am taking the 'About' part, where do you think the background guide can be incorporated, if at all?
[09:00] <sid77> hi sivang
[09:00] <ChrisH> sivang: Hi, Sid.
[09:00] <sid77> lol
[09:00] <sid77> tab frenzy?
[09:00] <ChrisH> sivang: What kind of background exactly? The meaning of Gnu, Ubuntu and Linux should be in the first chapter IMHO.
[09:01] <ChrisH> sivang: Could you (as hour honorable chief master organiser) manage the information who works on what? We could as well put that into the document itself.
[09:01] <ChrisH> sivang: I offer myself for sysconfig or software.
[09:02] <sivang> ChrisH : yes! thy humble servant ! :)) MOUHHAHAHA
[09:02] <sivang> Let's start with a MOIN MOIN table on the wiki
[09:02] <sivang> :)
[09:04] <sivang> I got a nasty rash last time I tried to use ReST
[09:08] <sid77> bye all
[09:25] <ChrisH> sivang: okay... but then we have it twice in the docs again...
[09:25] <sivang> ChrisH : huh?
[09:25] <ChrisH> in the wiki and in the docbook (the toc)
[09:26] <ChrisH> but that is probably not our biggest problem
[09:26] <sivang> you mean where to put the table with where everybody say what he is working on?
[09:26] <plovs> we should remove redundant stuff from the wiki imo
[09:27] <ChrisH> can't we just put our names in the chapters we are working on?
[09:27] <plovs> ChrisH, why don't we all just pick a chapter?
[09:27] <plovs> on the ML
[09:28] <plovs> and when it's finished, say so and it's open for all
[09:28] <ChrisH> plovs: k
[09:28] <ChrisH> just please not yet another wiki page :)
[09:29] <plovs> ?? should reduce the number of wiki pages
[09:29] <plovs> we
[09:30] <plovs> dump half the wiki in the book
[09:30] <plovs> and use wiki for updates
[09:30] <plovs> imho
[09:30] <ChrisH> yes please
[09:30] <ChrisH> The "documentation team" aka the "anti-wiki gang" :)
[09:31] <plovs> since we wrote most of it in the first place, we can undo it as well
[09:31] <plovs> besides the book should be published in the support section asap
[09:32] <plovs> just send your prefeered chapter to the ML
[09:32] <plovs> sivang, you ok with this?
[09:33] <ChrisH> plovs: asap will probably still be a 2-4 weeks from now
[09:33] <plovs> ChrisH, that's the ap part of asap, i suppose
[09:33] <plovs> but it should be before barcelona if possible
[09:33] <plovs> even if beta
[09:33] <sivang> Yes, as the chairman I agree :)
[09:34] <sivang> But, it would cost ya bucks people
[09:34] <sivang> :)
[09:34] <ChrisH> sivang: Your honor.  You will further serve as a proofreader of Gentoo. :)
[09:38] <plovs> ChrisH, we would need some extra wiki-pages, actually, errata for the guide
[09:38] <plovs> one page for every part maybe
[09:38] <sivang> hahaha
[09:38] <ChrisH> containing what exactly?
[09:39] <plovs> ChrisH, errata, things that are not there typos etc
[09:40] <sivang> but please don't make me proofread for Gentoo
[09:40] <sivang> please
[09:40] <sivang> anywa, so we leave off the wiki page for the task assignment?
[09:40] <plovs> mandrake? bug reports?
[09:40] <plovs> sivang, i vote for ML
[09:41] <plovs> for now
[09:41] <plovs> we're only four/five guys anyway
[09:41] <sivang> ok then
[09:42] <sivang> I don't mind, it supports my wiki lazzyness
[09:42] <sivang> :)
[09:42] <plovs> i call it a day, i have a busy day tomorrow, see ya all!
[09:42] <sivang> bye plovs!
[09:44] <ChrisH> anyone posting on the ML?
[09:44] <sivang> I did
[09:44] <sivang> I said I will do the 'About'
[09:48] <ChrisH> i will do the sysconfig.
[09:48] <ChrisH> Let's see what John is on for.
[09:48] <plovs> ChrisH, what's your sig?
[09:48] <sivang> post the ML
[09:49] <plovs> ChrisH, ".signature" [Modified]  3 lines --100%--                3,41         All
[09:50] <ChrisH> that *is* my sig :)
[09:54] <ChrisH> hmm... once the doc is done we should think about a translation
[09:56] <sivang> we have already many people eager for teanslation,
[09:56] <sivang> littlegreenman would be the guy for the protugeese
[09:56] <sivang> skyrider for russian
[09:58] <sivang> what does that signature mean?
[09:59] <ChrisH> Never used "vim" before? :)
[09:59] <sivang> I use it just to edit conffiles,
[10:00] <sivang> other than that, I'm still VIM dummey
[10:00] <ChrisH> just look at the bottom line when you have vim open
[10:05] <sivang> nothing
[10:06] <ChrisH> try Ctrl-G
[10:10] <sivang> nothing special
[10:10] <ChrisH> okay... it's supposed to be an editor windows of vim editing a ".signature" file. so it's a recursive vim-insider gag. :)
[10:11] <sivang> and I absolutely understood this phrase :)
[10:11] <sivang> or not,
[10:11] <sivang> sivang.understand(chrish) or die(
[10:11] <sivang> "error at line1")
[10:12] <ChrisH> are you snaking me?
[10:12] <sivang> snaking?
[10:12] <sivang> no
[10:12] <sivang> what does that mean?
[10:13] <ChrisH> python?
[10:14] <sivang> ah it was mixing python and perl ;)
[10:14] <sivang> got you on vim
[10:14] <sivang> I now see the line at the bottom
[10:14] <sivang> "[No File] " [Modified]  8 lines --100%--                                           8,0-1         All
[11:00] <falco> hi
[11:01] <falco> is the documentation team
[11:01] <falco> responsable for documentation translation
[11:01] <falco> ?
[11:01] <sivang> yes falco, how are you?
[11:03] <falco> I'm fine
[11:04] <sivang> Are you interested in translating stuff?
[11:04] <falco> I would like to give a hand in the Portuguese translation
[11:04] <sivang> ah great!
[11:05] <falco> and if I have time I might do more than that
[11:05] <sivang> There is already someone who also likes to contribute on that front,
[11:05] <sivang> littlegreenman
[11:05] <sivang> he's also portuguese
[11:05] <sivang> :)
[11:05] <falco> yes
[11:05] <falco> great
[11:05] <ChrisH> sivang: do we have a translation organisation page on the wiki?
[11:06] <sivang> ChrisH : we have the translation communties page on the mai site,
[11:07] <falco> I'll speak to him
[11:19] <sivang> falco : I would advice to also post to ML, after subscribing to it,
[11:20] <sivang> introducting yourself etc,
[11:20] <sivang> expressing your intention to contribute in translation to portuguese
[11:20] <sivang> :)
[11:20] <falco> ok
[11:20] <falco> I'll in a few minutes
[11:20] <sivang><EMAIL_ADDRESS>for that matter
[11:20] <falco> ok
[11:42] <falco> sivang: is that your e-mail?
[11:46] <sivang> no, this is the email for the contact person in canonical that takes care of the interactio between the docteam and the company :)
[11:46] <sivang> but you need not email them persoannly,
[11:46] <sivang> just post the list.
[11:51] <falco> ok
[11:51] <falco> just to know what should I put in evolution contacts
[11:52] <sivang> you should subscribe first
[11:54] <sivang> and come here tommorow also, maybe early to get some of the doc team people to know you
[11:59] <littlegreenman> been away sivang
[11:59] <sivang> littlegreenman : falco is here is also willing to join the translation front, would you like to tell him what you already know - also, where is that page with langs communites?
[11:59] <sivang> :)
[12:00] <littlegreenman> sivang: yeah, no prob
[12:00] <sivang> thanks
[12:00] <littlegreenman> sivang: i have one tiny problem... is that i don't know where the work of the new ubuntu help file
[12:00] <littlegreenman> is located or better


[03:40] <pitti> Good morning
[04:46] <didrocks> good morning
[04:47] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[04:47] <didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
[04:48] <pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
[04:48] <didrocks> pitti: I'm good, thanks
[07:23] <rickspencer3> good morning all
[07:25] <didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3
[07:25] <rickspencer3> hey didrocks
[07:26] <rickspencer3> what's the French community saying today about 12.10?
[07:26] <rickspencer3> c'est bon?
[07:26] <didrocks> rickspencer3: not as many downloads as for previous releases, seems people want to wait a little bit before downloading
[07:27] <didrocks> rickspencer3: also, as we have a rock solid LTS, I think a lot of them won't upgrade for the first time in years
[07:27] <rickspencer3> didrocks, interesting, why do you think that is?
[07:27] <didrocks> they like precise :)
[07:27]  * rickspencer3 nods
[07:27] <didrocks> I had the same feeling yesterday evening in ubuntu-lyon
[07:27] <didrocks> (I went to the evening event, for helping upgrades/installs)
[07:28] <didrocks> just my feeling, it seems but strong LTS release are not good for later intermediate ones!
[07:28] <didrocks> … which is a good thing in some way ;)
[07:28] <rickspencer3> well, yeah
[08:35] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:38] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> well, that should keep the webapps guys busy. been picking firefox crashes out of the crash database for them this morning :)
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[08:38] <chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
[08:39] <didrocks> I'm fine, thanks :)
[08:39] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: heh ;)
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/query/query?product=Firefox&version=Firefox%3A16.0.1&platform=linux&range_value=1&range_unit=days&date=10%2F19%2F2012+08%3A34%3A15&query_search=signature&query_type=contains&query=&reason=&build_id=&process_type=browser&hang_type=crash&do_query=1
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> number 4 ;)
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> that's just for the last 24 hours. if i look at the last week, that crash is number 11
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> it's going to overtake all of them quite quickly :(
[08:43] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: can you contact them and work with them to get those fixed?
[08:43] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think we will need to help them to get a better firefox plugin
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah. they're all going to be travelling next week aren't they?
[08:43] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, most of them starting wednesday
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> i wonder whether to just fix it for them before this appears on mozilla's radar
[08:44] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: so that's plenty of time to get some fixes in first! :)
[08:44] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: agreed
[08:44] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: would be bad to have it disabled :p
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-October/msg00056.html ;)
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> systemd now a hard dependency of gnome-settings-daemon....
[09:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: "sweet", this will make our life easier of course…
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> indeed
[09:25] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not sure of the effectivness of the power plugin in g-s-d TBH
[09:25] <Laney> yeah, just saw that
[09:25] <Laney> it's not entirely surprising though really
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> but then, we choose to use obsolete technology such as consolekit :/
[09:39] <xnox> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure "choose" is the correct word here.
[09:40] <pitti> ah, just read that mail as well
[09:41] <pitti> well, we'll need to package systemd anyway
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> xnox, what would be the correct word?
[09:41] <pitti> it was the plan for quantal already, but didn't happen
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, are you using https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next btw? :)
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:41] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't really use firefox, why? ;)
[09:41] <pitti> we'll still need a patch to use CK, of course, but we should be able to use the suspend etc. bits
[09:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i forgot you're a chrome traitor :-P
[09:42] <didrocks> \o/
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> freedom hater ;)
[09:42] <didrocks> chromium*
[09:42] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: quick quick blog it! ;-)
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti, you'll still be at UDS, won't you? :)
[09:44] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, of course; I'm in the platform team
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> oh, i wasn't too sure. that's good then
[09:44] <didrocks> pitti: take care, soon chrisccoulson will call you "desktop team traitor" :)
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:45]  * pitti remembers to bring the asbestos pants
[09:45] <didrocks> heh :)
[10:26] <ronoc> nero for linux has been broken since 11.10 on 64bit
[10:26] <ronoc> don't know who to spoke to about this ...
[10:27] <didrocks> ronoc: is it in the partner repo?
[10:28] <ronoc> didrocks, from apt I can find nerolinux
[10:29] <ronoc> i don't have any extra repos added to my source.list
[10:29] <ronoc> didrocks, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1864876&page=2
[10:29] <ronoc> the fix worked for me
[10:29] <ronoc> i needed to create an nrg for something
[10:29] <didrocks> ronoc: apt-cache policy nerolinux
[10:29] <didrocks> what does it says?
[10:30] <ronoc> didrocks, no mention of where the repo is
[10:30] <ronoc> i can't remember is i installed from a deb from the nero site
[10:31] <ronoc> nerolinux:
[10:31] <ronoc>   Installed: <IP_ADDRESS>-1
[10:31] <ronoc>   Candidate: <IP_ADDRESS>-1
[10:31] <ronoc>   Version table:
[10:31] <ronoc>  *** <IP_ADDRESS>-1 0
[10:31] <ronoc>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[10:31] <ronoc> didrocks, ^
[10:31] <didrocks> ronoc: so you downloaded and installed the deb directly
[10:31] <ronoc> ah
[10:31] <didrocks> or added a ppa, installing it, and removing it (during a dist-upgrade?)
[10:31] <ronoc> nah i must have installed the deb directly
[10:31] <didrocks> but I really doubt we would ever have nerolinux in the distro
[10:31] <ronoc> we should support it though
[10:31] <didrocks> ronoc: maybe they have a support forum?
[10:32] <didrocks> I think it needs a rebuild and fixes for multiarch
[10:32] <ronoc> ok
[10:33] <ronoc> i'll see if i can relay that message
[10:33] <didrocks> ronoc: http://www.nero.com/enu/downloads-linux4-update.php
[10:33] <didrocks> ronoc: seems they didn't release a deb for 2 years though
[10:34] <ronoc> aye, people still use this though for producing disc images, plants only accept nrgs or dpps
[10:37] <ronoc> yep it looks like nero have stop supporting linux ...
[10:37] <didrocks> urgh :(
[12:09] <bizhanMona> Hi where is ubuntu as far as supporting systemd? thx
[13:17] <jbicha> thanks Bastien for stirring up drama on a Friday https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-October/msg00056.html
[13:27] <kenvandine> jbicha, yeah... i guess we'll be talking about systemd at UDS
[13:29] <jbicha> I mean, Ubuntu 13.04 probably should start migrating to systemd in 13.04 but he's being a jerk about "encouraging" us to do that
[13:29] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:31] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[13:31] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> just saw your response on d-d-l ;)
[13:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, happy friday trolling day ;-)
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[13:50] <seb128> I'm good
[13:50] <seb128> having a day off work today (still some  10 vac days to take before end of year), I was just saying hello and reading emails (and trolling a bit ;-)
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> heh, vacation, i really need to take some as well
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> i'd totally forgotten about it
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> hah, i've got 18 days left!
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> jeez
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> i really need to take some time off soon
[13:55] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: we'll tell you happy christmas and happy new year at the end of UDS :)
[13:55] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: you had a kid, and _still_ have 18 days left? :P
[13:56] <didrocks> mdeslaur: you know that this can be taken as "you are being a bad father", right? :p
[13:56] <jbicha> seb128: lol, have a good day off :)
[13:56] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, with 2 small children, sometimes it's a relief to be at work rather than taking vacation ;)
[13:56] <mdeslaur> didrocks: lol, whoops :)
[13:56] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: hehe :)
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> but, i really suck at taking vacation
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> i need to pick a period between 2 firefox releases to have some time off :)
[13:57] <seb128> jbicha, thanks ;-)
[13:57] <seb128> I'm off again
[13:57] <seb128> bbl
[13:59] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: how fast between 2 firefox releases already?
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, well, there were 2 last week
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> but 6 weeks between scheduled releases ;)
[14:00] <didrocks> ok, 7 for chromium IIRC
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> the release process for chromium seems a bit more chaotic though
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> i can tell you the exact date firefox 17 will be released :)
[14:10] <didrocks> time-based :)
[14:10] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: do they really release chromium and chrome the same day?
[14:10] <didrocks> kenvandine: maybe you would know? ^
[14:10] <kenvandine> not sure about the same day
[14:10] <kenvandine> but it is roughly every 6 weeks
[14:11] <kenvandine> not as specific as firefox though
[14:11] <kenvandine> sometimes it is 3 or 4 weeks between stable releases
[14:36] <Laney> ah, working webkit on arm again
[14:36] <Laney> ogra_: ^ :-)
[14:36]  * Laney is looking at the slideshow
[14:36]  * ogra_ hugs Laney
[14:37] <ogra_> Laney, thats awesome, while we could easily drop the slideshow, yelp is completely broken :)
[14:37] <Laney> heh
[14:37] <Laney> i'll SRU it with the upstream micro release
[14:37] <Laney> still a workaround, there's a bug with upstream to fix it for real
[14:48] <ellorenz> Hi to all!
[14:48] <ellorenz> i'd need help about wifi on ubuntu 12.10 can anyone help me?
[14:49] <jbicha> ellorenz: please ask in #ubuntu
[14:49] <ellorenz> Ok
[15:49] <TheLordOfTime> was 2d unity removed in Q?
[15:49] <TheLordOfTime> and if so, why?
[15:51] <didrocks> TheLordOfTime: yeah, it was, you can read http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/unity-2d-removed-from-ubuntu-12-10 (or google around) for more explanation
[15:51] <didrocks> the decision was announced at last UDS
[15:51] <TheLordOfTime> ah, i missed it, i focus on server stuff more :p
[15:52] <TheLordOfTime> in any case, what's the method to reset stuff to less-graphical stuff?
[15:52] <didrocks> TheLordOfTime: if your machine can't support 3D, it will use llvmpipe
[15:52] <didrocks> (with unity itself)
[15:53] <TheLordOfTime> that may have been prudent to include in the release notes
[15:53] <TheLordOfTime> unless i didnt read them enough
[15:53] <TheLordOfTime> :p
[15:53]  * TheLordOfTime is adamant to stick with 12.04, but has seen 'bugs' that 2d unity isnt an option now
[15:54] <didrocks> TheLordOfTime: people having machine not able to run unity 3D have a warning before upgrading
[15:55] <didrocks> (it may run fine with llvmpipe, but we prefer to warn them while they are on precise still :))
[15:55] <TheLordOfTime> doesn't seem that way according to the QQing i saw in #ubuntu earlier
[15:55] <didrocks> well, it's only if the machine doesn't support 2D
[15:55] <didrocks> sorry, 3D
[15:55] <didrocks> not if you selected 2D and your machine supported 3D
[15:56] <didrocks> knowing that 3D is more power efficient as running on the GPU and some speed improvments have made their way on 12.10 for compiz + unity
[16:00] <TheLordOfTime> did the release notes include that 2d unity was replaced with what you've stated?
[16:00] <TheLordOfTime> if so, then i can just start saying "learn to read the release notes!"
[16:00] <TheLordOfTime> (or something more friendly that way)
[16:00] <TheLordOfTime> as i said, i prefer currentRelease -1, or LTS
[16:00] <TheLordOfTime> (which is why i'll be on 12.04 for a while ;P)
[16:01] <didrocks> TheLordOfTime: it was in beta1, seems it didn't make it into the finale release note though :/
[16:02] <didrocks> TheLordOfTime: but the user shouldn't land in a desktop-less world, the new version unity version on supported hw should be more efficient than unity-2d they had in precise
[16:03] <TheLordOfTime> its the QQing i dont like :P
[16:03] <didrocks> and if their hardware will require llvmpipe support (so no acceleration), there is a warning showing it
[16:03] <TheLordOfTime> brb, I apparently futzed a debdiff for an SRU
[16:53] <fredp> didrocks and friends, congrats for the release.
[16:53] <didrocks> fredp: merci! :-)
[17:20] <jbicha> TheLordOfTime: yeah, basically no one has stepped up to maintain unity-2d
[20:01] <mterry> Laney, I wanted to push an SRU patch for gtk+3.0.  I see you have one uploaded?  Has it been approved into -proposed yet or shall I add my patch to yours and re-upload with same version?
[20:02]  * mterry realizes he can look himelf
[22:24] <mbiebl> tkamppeter: heya, around?


[02:15] <Mez> Riddell: ping
[07:16] <seth_k|lappy> Hi Hobbsee, sorry I wasn't about earlier :)
[07:16] <seth_k|lappy> I was out with a pretty girl, y'know how it is
[07:16] <Hobbsee> seth_k|lappy: hello!  no problems
[07:16] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:17] <Hobbsee> well, from the other end of that spectrum, i do know what that's like
[07:17] <seth_k|lappy> indeed
[07:17] <seth_k|lappy> did you get your shiny bauble packaged
[07:17] <Hobbsee> no....
[07:17] <Mez> hey Hobbsee - do you use katapult ?
[07:18] <Hobbsee> Mez: absolutely
[07:18] <Hobbsee> seems like the bookmarks on it are buggered though...
[07:18] <Mez> Hobbsee, wanna try the latest version of it ?
[07:18] <Hobbsee> Mez: yes
[07:18] <Mez> asa beta tester ?
[07:18] <Hobbsee> of course
[07:18] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:18] <Hobbsee> beta tester hey...guess that's better than an alpha tester lol
[07:18] <Mez> you know how to  compile a source package?or do you wanna wait till i've revu-build'd it
[07:18] <Hobbsee> more safe, anyway
[07:19] <Mez> well I guesswe're more in beta than alpha atm,
[07:19] <Hobbsee> true
[07:19] <Hobbsee> *thinks*
[07:19] <Hobbsee> either's fine - when does it go into revu?
[07:19] <Mez> i've just shoved it up
[07:19] <Mez> am waiting for it to be processed :D
[07:19] <Mez> then will revu-build it
[07:19] <Hobbsee> ah ko
[07:19] <Hobbsee> yeah, i'll have the source of it, if possible :)
[07:20] <Hobbsee> lol
[07:20] <Mez> http://www.cheesenibbles.com/katapult.png
[07:21] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:21] <Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1302
[07:21] <Mez> in revu
[07:21] <Mez> building
[07:21] <Mez> :D
[07:23] <Hobbsee> ok, building here too..
[07:23] <Mez> doing the make :D
[07:26] <Mez> oh you have to be ****king with me
[07:26] <Mez> I forgot the damn po files
[07:28] <Hobbsee> darn!
[07:29] <Mez> lol
[07:29] <Mez> one sec
[07:29] <Mez> reputting up to revu
[07:30] <Mez> grr @ myself
[07:30] <Hobbsee> presumably one must restart kde to use this?
[07:30] <Mez> no
[07:30] <Mez> just alt+f2 then type "katapult"
[07:30] <Mez> oh sorry
[07:30] <Mez> load a konsole and type
[07:30] <Mez> killall -9 katapult
[07:30] <Mez> then alt+f2 and type katapult
[07:30] <Mez> lol
[07:31] <Mez> It's just a wee reload
[07:31] <Mez> brb
[07:31] <Hobbsee> bugger, that bug is still in there...
[07:31] <Hobbsee> what's changed?
[07:33] <seth_k|lappy> there's a new icon that I don't like as much and will promptly patch out :P
[07:33] <seth_k|lappy> I dunno what else there is
[07:33] <Mez> what bug ?
[07:34] <Mez> Hobbsee, probably cause it didnt compile :D
[07:34] <Mez> lol
[07:34] <Hobbsee> alt+space, type in part of a bookmark name, hit enter, it changes to "evaluate expression" with a big cross, and it does nothing
[07:34] <Mez> did you get a deb file to install ?
[07:34] <Mez> lol :D
[07:34] <Mez> that should be fixed
[07:35] <Mez> in the new version
[07:35] <Mez> gimme a mo - the new ones uploaded - I'll just link to the deb when it's done building for you to isntall that
[07:35] <Hobbsee> ok
[07:37] <Hobbsee> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[07:37] <Hobbsee> oops, ignore that
[07:37] <Mez> just debuild :D
[07:37] <Hobbsee> tried that the first time, that seems to have been the problem
[07:38] <Mez> lol
[07:38] <Mez> fair enough :D
[07:38] <Mez> well the deb's compiling
[07:38] <Mez> though it has the wrong version numbering :D
[07:38] <Mez> but other than that it's cool :D
[07:39] <Mez> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/katapult-0512260130/katapult_0.3.baz20051226-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:39] <Mez> just use that :D
[07:39] <Hobbsee> error during make anyway...
[07:40] <seth_k|lappy> 403'd
[07:40] <Mez> try again
[07:40] <seth_k|lappy> 403'd
[07:40] <seth_k|lappy> you lose 1 life
[07:41] <Hobbsee> yep, 403'd
[07:41] <Hobbsee> lol
[07:41] <seth_k|lappy> it is dark. possible exits are north, east. you may be eaten by a grue.
[07:41] <Mez> must be some weird thing :D
[07:41] <Mez> lol
[07:41] <Mez> lemme grab a copy from SSH
[07:43] <Mez> katapult_0.3.baz20051226-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:45] <Hobbsee> huh?
[07:45] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/ubuntu/katapult/katapult_0.3.baz20051226-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:48] <Mez> get that URL?
[07:48] <Hobbsee> yes
[07:48] <Hobbsee> ewww!  that icon for it is horrible!
[07:48] <Hobbsee> but, the bug is fixed!
[07:48] <Mez> the icon is wubbly
[07:48] <Mez> and it's staying :d
[07:49] <Mez> Seth - what you think ?
[07:49] <Hobbsee> ewww....
[07:49] <Mez> It's a great icon
[07:51] <Mez> like it was before ?
[07:52] <Hobbsee> more or less - if you changed the icon for the kmenu, it wouldnt update on the kicker, but it'd be cool if it did
[07:54] <Hobbsee> *er, wouldnt update on the katapult
[07:56] <Mez> it should do
[07:56] <Mez> it just loaded the kmenu icon
[08:00] <Hobbsee> what, the latest svn version of it?
[08:02] <Mez> the old version of it...
[08:02] <Mez> the version i just sent you is the latest baz version
[08:02] <Hobbsee> ah, right, yes
[10:37] <flosoft> is it possible that phpmyadmin package is broken?
[10:38] <flosoft> well the uninstaller?
[11:12] <Tonio_> flosoft: dunno but I generally dont use those php apps packages....
[11:12] <Tonio_> it is so easy to install manually....
[11:12] <Tonio_> do you get an error message ?
[11:13] <flosoft> yes already fixed
[02:07] <flosoft> new AMSN is out!
[02:09] <flosoft> any package for Kubuntu?
[09:10] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell-awa, when you get back, somehow you borked the upload for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/qt-x11-free/+bug/5817
[09:10] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell-awa, the .desktop file still lacks Categories
[09:11] <seth_k|lappy> I installed the package just to confirm