[12:10] <ajmitch> geser: universe security is primarily our responsibility
[12:10] <LaserJock> I just don't know who
[12:10] <tseng> LaserJock: not really dude
[12:10] <tseng> its fast enough
[12:10] <tseng> better things to do
[12:10] <tseng> etc
[12:10] <minghua> I remember CVEs are tracked in a special place
[12:10] <LaserJock> well, I think Kamion and Keybuk have better things to do most of the time
[12:10] <tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/
[12:10] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: as I said a number of times:  there's plenty of people with a good understanding of the arhcive and of what consttutes good packages.
[12:11] <Q-FUNK> same thign at debian
[12:11] <tseng> LaserJock: mark isnt going to pay someone just to man the archive
[12:11] <LaserJock> it's hard with this fast of a dev cycle when you have to wait weeks for things
[12:11] <tseng> LaserJock: and any person with such skills can do something more useful
[12:11] <LaserJock> tseng: I'm not talking paid
[12:11] <tseng> sigh
[12:11] <tseng> impossible
[12:11] <geser> ajmitch: i'm trying to rebuild php4 from debian unstable (for security fixes) but fails as it needs both libdb4.3-dev and libdb4.4-dev
[12:11] <LaserJock> tseng: I know what you mean
[12:11] <Q-FUNK> that only 1 or 2 new guys per decade get trusted enough to get the root they need to act is a whole other issue.
[12:11] <tseng> LaserJock: ask for a login to davis
[12:11] <tseng> LaserJock: good luck
[12:11] <LaserJock> that's what I'm saying
[12:11] <geser> ajmitch: have you an idea how to proceed?
[12:12] <LaserJock> tseng: what I'm saying is I'd like to see more time put into archive admin but I don't really see that happening
[12:12] <ajmitch> geser: no, I haven't touched php4, infinity may know when he's around tomorrow
[12:13] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: and it so happens thta kamion and keybouck indeed are better at less boring tasks, so why not have someone else e.g. not internested in reinventing sysvinit handle NEW?
[12:13] <tseng> LaserJock: we could also have an art team
[12:13] <tseng> LaserJock: yay fantasy land
[12:13] <Q-FUNK> there is an art team
[12:13] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: like who?
[12:13] <LaserJock> I'm not seeing anybody
[12:13] <Q-FUNK> i was subscribed to the list until a few months ago
[12:13] <tseng> Q-FUNK: there is a group of people who think that brown gradients are art
[12:14] <LaserJock> anyway...
[12:14] <tseng> yeah sorry
[12:14] <Q-FUNK> people got tired of jdub and jane silber constantly butting in and calling the shots, despite not contributing anything artistic.
[12:14] <tseng> had to do it
[12:15] <LaserJock> it'd be nice if archive admin'ing was faster
[12:15] <LaserJock> but it'
[12:15] <lupine_85> brown--
[12:15] <LaserJock> it's not as bad as it used to be
[12:15] <LaserJock> and from my limited experience in Debian it's about on par
[12:15] <LaserJock> at least for NEW Ubuntu seems a bit faster
[12:16] <tseng> loads faster
[12:16] <Q-FUNK> i also used to subscribe to ubuntu-marketing.  same issue.  every time we were about to figure out a solution to something, jane silber butting in out of nowhere.
[12:16] <LaserJock> but debian doesn't have the sync thing
[12:16] <LaserJock> but right now most syncs take a couple days tops
[12:16] <LaserJock> I think
[12:17] <Q-FUNK> nope
[12:18] <Q-FUNK> at least not on my packages
[12:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, mine regularly take a week.
[12:18] <Q-FUNK> it indeed was worse back when one had to nag elmo, but I cannot say it got any better now.
[12:18] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: these are all valid points, and I wish you could have raised them at the TB meeting today (for which you applied for ubuntu-dev membership but didn't show)
[12:18] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh really?
[12:19] <LaserJock> yeah, a week is tough when we're up against a freeze
[12:19] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[12:19] <LaserJock> it's not bad if you are doing single packages
[12:19] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'll eventually show up :)  I just cannot be everywhere at the same time.
[12:19] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: understood :)
[12:19] <LaserJock> but when you have packages that depend on others ...
[12:19] <crimsun> Fujitsu: congrats
[12:19] <Fujitsu> Like, my oldest one now is from a week ago.
[12:19] <Fujitsu> THanks crimsun :)
[12:19] <Fujitsu> And thanks for sending in an email :
[12:19] <Fujitsu> *:)
[12:19] <crimsun> np
[12:20] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly, like gnome-chemistry-utils.
[12:20] <lotusleaf> I was using debmirror and went to sleep and woke up and it stopped midway, is there any way to continue where I left off without starting all over again?
[12:20] <Fujitsu> lotusleaf, just start it up again.
[12:20] <lotusleaf> Fujitsu: it won't remove directories or anything?
[12:21] <minghua> I think crimsun is right, we (MOTUs) should mention this on TB meeting
[12:21] <Fujitsu> No, unless they've been removed from Packages.
[12:21] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'm working on a project whose website just opened today (albeit with filler content, for now).
[12:21] <lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thanks! :)
[12:21] <Fujitsu> minghua, I agree too.
[12:21] <Fujitsu> lotusleaf, otherwise I'd not have a mirror, mine often fails.
[12:21] <minghua> (maybe too late for edgy though, but at least make sure this doesn't happen again before edgy+1 freeze)
[12:21] <lotusleaf> Fujitsu: whew, that's a relief to hear. ;)
[12:21] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: my blog on the debian planet says a bit about it.
[12:21] <crimsun> cbx33: congrats, too
[12:22] <Fujitsu> I do find it a little strange that two of the absolutely key developers are the ones spending the time doing syncs etc., when they can (and do) do better things.
[12:23] <crimsun> it seems to be a trust issue, which I can understand
[12:23] <Q-FUNK> keybuck's work on startup is a reason to rejoice.  as to why he ends up doign what others withotu inspiratin to code but who can tella bad package from a good one ciuld do is beynd me.
[12:23] <minghua> Q-FUNK's blog entry sounds just like teasing to me :-)
[12:23] <Q-FUNK> ;)
[12:24] <crimsun> it was actually discussed either in #ubuntu-devel or at a TB meeting a while ago. There's soyuz work for a sync (LP) button iirc
[12:24] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:24] <LaserJock> I think that's the solution that they are waiting on
[12:24] <Q-FUNK> whne is soyuz going to orbit?
[12:24] <Fujitsu> crimsun, they mentioned in a TB meeting in January that that was coming `soon'.
[12:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: good, that means by this Jan. it might happen ;-)
[12:25] <Q-FUNK> free software and (lack of) deadlines.  *sigh*
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, ah, but Soyuz isn't Free.
[12:25] <LaserJock> heh
[12:25] <Fujitsu> If it were, this would have been implemented months ago.
[12:25] <Fujitsu> As it'd be incredibly useful.
[12:25] <LaserJock> I doubt it
[12:25] <Q-FUNK>
[12:25] <LaserJock> I don't think this stuff would go that much faster as open source
[12:26] <LaserJock> but I could be totally wrong
[12:26] <LaserJock> have been in the past ;-)
[12:26] <Fujitsu> Having it open would allow much greater participation, I'd assume.
[12:26] <Fujitsu> But that's not going to happen.
[12:26] <LaserJock> assuming be want/would work on it
[12:26] <Q-FUNK> i mean, what is the point of motu team being called _master_ of the universe if we have to pss thru the keybuck/kamion bottleneck?
[12:27] <LaserJock> s/be/people/
[12:27] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: hahaha
[12:27] <LaserJock> well, we proposed a Universe archive admin team once
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> what is it that the team masters, exactly?
[12:27] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, in the TB meeting in January, I believe.
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> and?
[12:28] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: uploading, and screwing up peoples computers ;-)
[12:28] <Fujitsu> But that can't happen, 'cause they access the DB raw, so no permissions.
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> not acceptable to the lose canons that be?
[12:28] <LaserJock> I do think there's a trust issue
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> fix the db, not the process.  how is that hard to get?
[12:28] <LaserJock> well placed or not
[12:28] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, there is certainly a trust issue.
[12:29] <LaserJock> well, the thing is they already have a solution planed (via LP)
[12:29] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, the web frontend hasn't been developed yet... It's coming `soon'.
[12:29] <cbx33> thanks crimsun
[12:29] <Q-FUNK> that's why i said that it's similar to debian putting everythign in the hand of ganneff and elmo.  bottleneck.
[12:29] <tseng> to address that, I was told the "trust issue" was data center policy
[12:29] <tseng> not sure if that is canonical DC policy or the DC itself
[12:29] <LaserJock> but again, who would be doing the admin'ing
[12:29] <tseng> but i know that the same DC has all of AOL's European equipment
[12:29] <tseng> and other high priority things
[12:29] <LaserJock> the same issue arises, I think
[12:29] <tseng> they are happy to give boxes outside that DC
[12:30] <tseng> like tiber
[12:30] <LaserJock> good people who know what they are doing are going to be developing
[12:30] <tseng> and boxes for LOCO teams
[12:30] <LaserJock> not admining
[12:30] <Q-FUNK> I would gladly admin.
[12:30] <Q-FUNK> I onyl got into packaging by accident.
[12:30] <Q-FUNK> and don't code at all.
[12:31] <Fujitsu> Anyhow, it needs to be brought up at the TB, as one-week delays in syncing a week before the freeze is really not good.
[12:31] <crimsun> it's really not as critical; exceptions for these bugfixes are normal
[12:31] <Q-FUNK> especially when the case is a debian maintianer who when thru the trouble f merging a fix onyl beneficial to the ubuntu side, imho.
[12:31] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: but it only matter like one or two weeks a release, which makes it difficult to be pursuasive
[12:32] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, true.
[12:32] <Fujitsu> crimsun, dependencies are also problems.
[12:32] <crimsun> surely. I imagine things will be a bit better after Thursday (beta).
[12:32] <LaserJock> except Universe Freeze is Thursday
[12:32] <Fujitsu> That's the problem, though. We're in freeze after beta.
[12:33] <crimsun> we have freeze exceptions, too
[12:33] <Fujitsu> Having UniverseFreeze and beta on the same day is silly.
[12:33] <LaserJock> that's the other thing too
[12:33] <crimsun> and bugfixes that are as critical as the one Q-FUNK mentioned go through
[12:33] <Q-FUNK> exception are had to come by, unless we fix an RC bug.
[12:33] <LaserJock> Dapper's freeze was hardly a freeze
[12:33] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, rather slushy?
[12:33] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: heh, not in Universe
[12:33] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: rather
[12:34] <Q-FUNK> I'm not even sure if mine qualifies as RC fix.  it does solve a long-standing issue preventing cups-pdf from being usable on ubuntu, but that's about it.
[12:35] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I don't think it'll be a problem
[12:35] <crimsun> "not being usable" sounds critical to me
[12:35] <Fujitsu> I don't think having universe frozen and the beta released on the same day is a good idea, because in the time leading up to that date, the core-devs are busy doing that, which means little/no archive-adminning just before freeze.
[12:35] <Fujitsu> Which is right when it's needed most.
[12:35] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:35] <minghua> isn't there some rule like "existent sync requests before freeze will be processed"?
[12:36] <Q-FUNK> since universe packages tend not t end up on the cd anyhow, why can't universe be a neverneding backport repository then?
[12:36] <Fujitsu> minghua, I'd bloody well hope so.
[12:36] <LaserJock> minghua: I really don't know
[12:36] <LaserJock> I know some of my stuff got dropped in Dapper's UVF
[12:36] <azeem> when exactly is the freeze?
[12:36] <crimsun> Fujitsu: I agree that it would have been nice to shift it to a week before Beta (my original suggestion), but we'll have to live with it now
[12:36] <LaserJock> 28th
[12:36] <LaserJock> some time
[12:36] <azeem> heh, ok
[12:36] <Fujitsu> azeem, some time on the 28th, estimated by Mithrandir last night to be around 1400UTC.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> crimsun, noted, but it needs to be looked at for Edgy+1.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Speaking of Edgy+1, shouldn't the name be released at some point!?
[12:37] <LaserJock> I was at the edgy release schedule BOF a couple times
[12:37] <Q-FUNK> bleeding eft
[12:38] <LaserJock> I think UniverseFreeze was a little bit of an after thought ;-)
[12:38] <nictuku> can I expect that all packages installation and upgrades work fine non-interactively?
[12:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it always is
[12:38] <Fujitsu> nictuku, no.
[12:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: generally up to us to decide
[12:38] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, LaserJock: That's not good...
[12:38] <LaserJock> not really
[12:38] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: but why freeze something that doesn't end up on the cd in the first place?  that part i really don't get.
[12:38] <lifeless> Q-FUNK: quality control
[12:39] <lifeless> Q-FUNK: the cd's are -not- why main freezes
[12:39] <LaserJock> look, my impression (this is only my opinion) is that mdz doesn't really care a whole lot of Universe is doing
[12:39] <ajmitch> hey lifeless
[12:39] <LaserJock> so we can more or less do what we want with it
[12:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: he's quite easy-going with universe
[12:39] <azeem> lifeless: bummer about opensync-0.19
[12:39] <lifeless> hi ajmitch
[12:39] <LaserJock> we did, IMO, have a fairly solid leadership structure
[12:39] <LaserJock> which we no longer have
[12:39] <Q-FUNK> lifeless: and yet universe truely is unsupported on ubuntu.  might as well make it a perpetual backport then.
[12:39] <lifeless> azeem: about upstream sitting on arse for 6 months and not releasing ?
[12:40] <LaserJock> which has made these issues harder to deal with
[12:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: then we'll change that
[12:40] <azeem> lifeless: sort of, they're talking about releasing for a month now
[12:40] <LaserJock> we need some leadership to step up
[12:40] <azeem> or rather not talking
[12:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, who used to lead?
[12:40] <LaserJock> dholbach and ogra
[12:40] <lifeless> azeem: yahuh. actually about 3 months abauer has been saying 'when the xyz branch is merged'
[12:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: fine, let's do it :)
[12:40] <LaserJock> when was the last time we had a MOTU meeting?
[12:40] <LaserJock> we used to have those all the time
[12:41] <azeem> lifeless: apparently things is sort of tagged or committed in svn
[12:41] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, not since Edgy opened, AFAIK.
[12:41] <azeem> s/is/are/
[12:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I've got some lists of packages (unmet deps), I'll get some build logs from fabbione soon
[12:41] <Q-FUNK> actually, speaking og dholbach and ogra, why don't they get right s to process new/universe?
[12:41] <lifeless> azeem: thats a start, but wow a bit late.
[12:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: even the last revu day we had to prod people to get going
[12:41] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: they are too busy doing dev work
[12:41] <LaserJock> ajmitch: exactly
[12:41] <LaserJock> we are, IMO, a rudderless ship
[12:42] <Fujitsu> I think we need a meeting.
[12:42] <lifeless> LaserJock: so organise a meeting
[12:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, all working independently.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Some structure needs to be organised, I think.
[12:42] <LaserJock> we used to be more of a well-oiled machine
[12:42] <Q-FUNK> idea:  since universe is not supported, assign all paid canonicals to only catter to main and leave absolute free reign over universe to motu team?
[12:42] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: that is more or less done with the exception of archive admin'ing
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> yet archive admin is the bottle neck.
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> back to # one
[12:43] <LaserJock> I don't think it is, honestly
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> keybuck and kamion should spot two unpaid peeps from motu and give them access.  there.  sorted.
[12:44] <LaserJock> it's *a* bottleneck, probably always will be
[12:44] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: heh, easier said then done since they don't let other paid devs do that
[12:44] <LaserJock> It's an issue
[12:44] <LaserJock> and maybe we can solve it that way, that'd be up to the TB
[12:45] <Q-FUNK> the solution to this sounds similar to the enverending dilema is similar to debian and non-free packages: put it in a separate archive with its own team and own new queue.
[12:45] <minghua> I don't think archive-admin is the only bottleneck either
[12:45] <minghua> the thing is universe means completely different thing to different people
[12:45] <LaserJock> mhm
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> let's have a www.apt-universe.org
[12:46] <LaserJock> yes, that's a big one
[12:46] <LaserJock> I'd say our biggest bottleneck is the lack of MOTU hours
[12:46] <minghua> I also know the Chinese Xubuntu derivative has their own repo
[12:46] <LaserJock> either having more hours/MOTU or more MOTUs
[12:47] <Fujitsu> Well, in a month I'll have literally every hour of my time for 3 months, that'll hopefully do something.
[12:47] <LaserJock> anyway
[12:47] <minghua> they don't push their changes into ubuntu proper because (1) some changes are just dirty hacks (2) there are just fewer experts on Chinese-specific issues, and it's hard to explain
[12:47] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: chicken and egg.  again, a typical debian dilema.  too huge distro to release in atimely fasion yet NM and especially DAM slowing the arial of more volunteers.
[12:47] <LaserJock> things maybe haven't been so bad, as ajmitch has suggested
[12:48] <minghua> I wonder what they see the bottleneck is
[12:48] <ajmitch> LaserJock: where do you think the MOTU hours could be better spent then?
[12:48] <LaserJock> ajmitch: not better spent hours, we just need more of them
[12:48] <LaserJock> the thing is, we have a huge amount of work to do
[12:48] <LaserJock> this isn't just about packaging
[12:49] <minghua> I agree with ajmitch that we are doing fine as is
[12:49] <LaserJock> minghua: without meetings, or organization?
[12:49] <LaserJock> leadership
[12:49] <minghua> however I wasn't really involved in the days of strong leadership
[12:49] <LaserJock> well, I though even dapper was better
[12:49] <minghua> LaserJock: leadership.  meetings are still necessary, IMO
[12:49] <LaserJock> thought
[12:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:50] <crimsun> can we at least agree on shifting away from bringing newer packages (syncs, merges) in unless they fix /critical/ bugs?
[12:50] <minghua> the problem is who to organize them
[12:50] <LaserJock> minghua: of course
[12:50] <LaserJock> I think one of the problems
[12:50] <LaserJock> is that MOTUs tend to get sucked into other things
[12:50] <crimsun> we're about a month away, so we really need to be concentrating on making things at least installable and runnable
[12:50] <Q-FUNK> we need people to sift thru new packages and syncs.
[12:50] <LaserJock> being a MOTU isn't neccessarily the stoping point
[12:50] <Fujitsu> crimsun, yeah.
[12:51] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, not at this point in the release cycle.
[12:51] <Q-FUNK> it's a question of dividing the workload.
[12:51] <minghua> crimsun: I agree with you, but I am not sure other users do, they just want their new/most up-to-date software
[12:51] <crimsun> minghua: they'll have edgy-backports
[12:51] <ajmitch> LaserJock: certainly - I've not done as much on universe this time round
[12:51] <lifeless> mmmm
[12:51] <crimsun> "as much crack as possible!"
[12:51] <LaserJock> well, there is another issue here
[12:51] <lifeless> I think that its important to recognize that there are two groups of users of universe :
[12:51] <LaserJock> regarding merges/syncs
[12:51] <LaserJock> not all merges/syncs are created equal
[12:51] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: being a motu helps, just as being a fully empowered DD at debian does.
[12:52] <lifeless>  *) bleeding edge testers. These users want to track universe in the current development version.
[12:52] <lifeless>  *) end users / corporates etc. These users want the universe that matches a release of main to be as stable as possible
[12:52] <LaserJock> what we don't have is any system (I don't think) to prioritize and organize merge/sync
[12:52] <LaserJock> so we just attack the whole thing
[12:52] <lifeless> universe is not 'supported' -> does not mean 'universe is unused' or 'universe should be unstable'
[12:53] <crimsun> lifeless: agreed. I think we need to shoot for the latter, since edgy-backports should open after freeze, and at least core-dev can upload to it directly.
[12:53] <ajmitch> apt-cache -i unmet |grep Package |wc -l
[12:53] <ajmitch> 213
[12:53] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, a MoM-type thing with a feature like that would be nice.
[12:53] <crimsun> ajmitch: let's attack that wiki-style
[12:53] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: we used to have that
[12:53] <ajmitch> crimsun: that got painful real fast
[12:53] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, why don't we any more?
[12:54] <ajmitch> wiki has been slow lately
[12:54] <crimsun> ajmitch: true, better suggestion?
[12:54] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: nobody organized it/got it going
[12:54] <Q-FUNK> lifeless: then again, several years of helping users on #debian @ircnet shows that users do want the latest of $favorite_desktop_app without aving to upgrade everything.
[12:54] <ajmitch> crimsun: revive the old merge tracker on tiber?
[12:54] <LaserJock> I loved the merge tracker on tiber
[12:54] <lifeless> Q-FUNK: indeed they do, and backports is the route we offer to do that.
[12:54] <crimsun> ajmitch: sounds feasible
[12:54] <LaserJock> much better than the current MoM
[12:54] <ajmitch> something I can tackle tonight
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Why'd we move off the tiber one?
[12:55] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: nobody got it going again
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> lifeless: so it sounds t me that we need two universes:  backports and moving target.
[12:55] <Fujitsu> OK.
[12:55] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: because it required more manual work to setup & keep in cync
[12:55] <ajmitch> s/cync/sync/
[12:55] <LaserJock> *read* lack of leadership, organization, time
[12:55] <ajmitch> it was offered when edgy opened
[12:56] <Q-FUNK> lifeless: what you describe is what I would call, in debian terms, unstable and backports.
[12:56] <lifeless> Q-FUNK: I was trying to show that there are different populations of users. some users want different things
[12:56] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: or what we have now, universe and -backports ;-)
[12:57] <lifeless> our role is to try to strike a balance between the huge space of requests and what we can deliver
[12:57] <minghua> I am really not sure about the quality of ubuntu's -backports
[12:57] <Q-FUNK> hm.. how hard would it be to have a builder infra that can turn universe into a perpetual universe/backports?
[12:57] <LaserJock> minghua: well, that's an issue in itself
[12:57] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: why would be want to do that?
[12:58] <minghua> it seems the backports admins also lacks man power to check the package carefully
[12:58] <Q-FUNK> as in e.g. gnome packages within minro releeases subsequent to whatever made it to the last ubuntu being always backported.
[12:58] <minghua> and my understanding is that ubuntu's -backports doesn't work like debian's backports.org
[12:59] <minghua> i.e., you don't have choice between packages, you either stay at dapper or upgrade everything to dapper-backports
[12:59] <Q-FUNK> at debian, releases take too long to do it, but at ubuntu, it would be easy to have e.g. gnome 2.14.x always straight to backports
[01:00] <Q-FUNK> ..until edgy is released, at which point backports offers the latests 2.16.x
[01:00] <azeem> Q-FUNK: gnome is in main, not universe
[01:00] <Q-FUNK> azeem: hence why i said that we need two backports repo too.
[01:01] <minghua> Q-FUNK's words actually raises a question: what will happen to dapper-backports once edgy is released?
[01:01] <LaserJock> Ubuntu's got main restricted universe multiverse -security -updates -backports -proposed
[01:01] <Q-FUNK> azeem: remember when bruce perens prosed hosting contrib and non-free completely outside debian servers?
[01:01] <LaserJock> I think we have enough repos
[01:01] <LaserJock> we just need to do the work
[01:01] <Q-FUNK> we need to be empowered to do the work
[01:01] <LaserJock> minghua: people can still upload to dapper-backports
[01:02] <LaserJock> probably until it's done being supported
[01:02] <minghua> LaserJock: who can upload to -backports right now?  my understanding is only core-devs?
[01:02] <LaserJock> core-devs and backports team?
[01:03] <LaserJock> still MOTUs
[01:03] <minghua> LaserJock: I only see backport team requesting sync-like backports, not uploading
[01:03] <LaserJock> +1 ;-)
[01:04] <LaserJock> minghua: right, I think that might go into effect for edgy's backports or something
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> yikes!  2am.
[01:04] <minghua> anyway, as none here is involved in backports (and they don't seem to have a channel here), not much point to discuss too much
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> 'night y'all!
[01:04] <minghua> night, Q-FUNK
[01:04] <LaserJock> minghua: they are MOTUs
[01:05] <LaserJock> minghua: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
[01:07] <minghua> oh, I didn't know crimsun is in backporter team
[01:07] <LaserJock> yep
[01:07] <LaserJock> he does a lot
[01:07] <nixternal> he is in everything and everywhere
[01:07] <LaserJock> waayy to much to be healthy I think ;-)
[01:08] <nixternal> i agree
[01:08] <nixternal> never seen anyone whose shrink fired them...
[01:08] <nixternal> anywho, im grabbin' pizza, who's in?
[01:08] <nixternal> bbiaf ;)
[01:20] <Fujitsu> azeem, ping.
[01:20] <azeem> pong
[01:21] <Fujitsu> Note that you can specify /distros/ubuntu/sourcepackage when you're filing a bug by email, so you don't have to do it manually.
[01:21] <azeem> right, I figured that out now
[01:22] <azeem> the first two I filed weren't in Ubuntu, and used them as template for the others, so :)
[01:22] <pygi> night
[01:22] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[01:23] <Fujitsu> 'night, pygi.
[01:27] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you use email a lot for bugs?
[01:28] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes.
[01:28] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, I'll have to have you show me some time
[01:28] <Fujitsu> UsingMaloneEmail on help.launchpad.net describes a bit, I believe.
[01:31] <nictuku> what do you think of "widy" for the name of a software?
[01:33] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, did Debian tasks always appear as seperate bugs, up the top of subscribed bug listings?   I'm not going crazy.  the version prior to my upload didn't build on sparc or ppc either.
[02:31] <LaserJock> keescook: what do you need?
[02:32] <keescook> LaserJock: crimsun uploaded a crash-fix for "abuse-sdl" that I made, and today I saw that the builds on sparc/ppc failed.  (my change was trivial)
[02:32] <keescook> but I see that the build on the version prior failed also
[02:32] <keescook> not mine: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/abuse-sdl/1:0.7.0-4ubuntu1
[02:32] <keescook> mine: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/abuse-sdl/1:0.7.0-4ubuntu2
[02:33] <crimsun> to note, the latest patch hasn't been integrated yet
[02:37] <keescook> crimsun: yup, that's fine.
[02:38] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:38] <keescook> what's the normal situation when a package doesn't build across all archs?  (i.e. should a bug have been opened against 1:0.7.0-4ubuntu1?)
[02:38] <keescook> hiya bddebian
[02:38] <bddebian> Hello keescook
[02:40] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[02:40] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[02:40] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[02:40] <LaserJock> hola Hobbsee
[02:41] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian, LaserJock
[02:43] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I've been doing to much computer work
[02:44] <LaserJock> my boss just asked me if I had pink eye
[02:44] <bddebian> Doh
[02:45] <zul> LaserJock: you been reading the forums again havent you? :)
[02:45] <LaserJock> nope just irssi and mutt
[03:31] <LaserJock> anybody know what shift does?
[03:31] <LaserJock> it's in a shell script
[03:32] <tseng> http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mansec?1+shift
[03:32] <tseng> its a built-in
[03:33] <tseng> you can find it in man bash as well
[03:33] <LaserJock> ah, I was doing man push without luck
[03:34] <minghua> LaserJock: help shift (in bash shell)
[03:34] <LaserJock> thanks
[03:34] <minghua> bascially it manipulates command line arguments
[03:35] <minghua> and tseng is right, bash(1) man page has more information
[03:36] <minghua> it's just that bash's man page is a bit daunting
[03:36] <tseng>  /shift works
[04:31] <zul> happy joy joy..
[04:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:35] <Hobbsee> what's up, zul?
[04:37] <zul> not much
[04:43] <zul> ummm...who will be handling uvf requests for universe? ;)
[04:44] <ajmitch> slomo,siretart,dholbach
[04:47] <Toadstool> re
[04:47] <bddebian> wb Toadstool
[04:47] <ajmitch> hi
[04:47] <Toadstool> hey ajmitch, bddebian
[05:07] <crimsun> theCore: please provide a URL to the 1.15 orig.tar.gz for #62416
[05:07] <crimsun> theCore: sorry
[05:07] <crimsun> TheMuso: please provide a URL to the 1.15 orig.tar.gz for #62416
[05:08] <Hobbsee> bug 62416
[05:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62416 in espeak "espeak: Request review/upload of new package." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62416
[05:30] <imbrandon> ugh
[05:30] <lupine_85> ?
[05:30] <imbrandon> something has totaly bored my ibook
[05:30] <imbrandon> borked*
[05:30] <imbrandon> on thsi last update
[05:31] <lupine_85> new kernel?
[05:31] <imbrandon> i'm not sure what it is tbh , still trying to debug , but its kinda hard without a keyboard
[05:32] <imbrandon> well my keyboard dont work in X anymore, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg dosent show the debconf screen , eg it all go's black
[05:32] <imbrandon> grrr
[05:32] <imbrandon> ouch infact on reboot kdm dont even start
[05:32] <imbrandon> ......
[05:35] <imbrandon> ok fixed, yay \o/ for manual hacking of trhe xorg.conf
[05:42] <LaserJock> hola Fujitsu
[05:43] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[05:45] <imbrandon> oh wow LaserJock check this http://www.intel.com/research/dpr.htm
[05:45] <imbrandon> now thats incredable, too bad i will be an old man before its mainstream
[05:50] <superm1> Brandon, I uploaded a fix for both the mythtv and mythplugins package a little bit ago.  if you have a moment
[05:51] <imbrandon> superm1, sure. i'll look here in a sec
[05:51] <superm1> ok
[06:10] <imbrandon> ajmitch, you busy ?
[06:10] <ajmitch> I didn't do it!
[06:10] <imbrandon> hahaha
[06:10] <ajmitch> oh, sorry
[06:10] <ajmitch> yes, imbrandon?
[06:10] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:11] <imbrandon> can you eyeball superm1's merge of mythplugins with me, there are alot of changes and i dont wanna miss anything this close to freeze
[06:11] <imbrandon> if you have the time
[06:11] <ajmitch> in ~6 hours, maybe
[06:11] <imbrandon> i'm looking it over now too ( i dident run revu-tools on it just doing it localy )
[06:11] <imbrandon> ok
[06:11] <ajmitch> I'm not really available for anything indepth right now
[06:12] <superm1> imbrandon, my only worry with it was if I still missed some files like you had mentioned.  I found two xml files that weren't getting added
[06:12] <superm1> but beyond that I didn't see anything missed
[06:12] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ok no worries when you have time
[06:12] <imbrandon> superm1, cool, yea i just have to check this really well as there are alot of changes from 0.18 to 0.20
[06:13] <imbrandon> ( mostly becouse of the ubuntu deltas from before )
[06:13] <superm1> makes sense.  I figure at this point, its better to get the version in at least by the freeze, and if something is missing, make a minor version bump right by freeze time
[06:13] <imbrandon> the mythtv looks ok though, i'll upload that after bit
[06:13] <superm1> k
[06:14] <superm1> k good
[06:14] <superm1> and I think I finally understand how to increment versions :)
[06:14] <imbrandon> heh yea dont increment them every time when you upload to revu
[06:14] <imbrandon> heh
[06:14] <imbrandon> i ment to explain that to you better when i had time
[06:15] <superm1> yea I've been gone for a bit, forgot to leave IRC when I left town too
[06:15] <superm1> if you tried to ping me this weekend
[06:16] <imbrandon> basicly it boils down to <package>_<upstream_version>-<debianvr_reversion><ubuntu_revision>
[06:16] <imbrandon> and we only change the ubuntu ones
[06:16] <imbrandon> before you bumped the debian 0.2 to 3
[06:17] <imbrandon> so like a debian package of blah_1.0-1 would end up blah_1.0-1ubuntu1 then blah_1.0-1ubuntu2 etc
[06:17] <superm1> now what about those cases that you are syncing from a repo like debian-multimedia, and they make a few small changes, and bump the debian version, but you already backported those changes?
[06:17] <superm1> should you still only bump ubuntu version?
[06:17] <imbrandon> syncs dont get version bumps, merges do
[06:18] <imbrandon> and i think you mean a merge
[06:18] <superm1> yes I do
[06:18] <Fujitsu_> I like it how Linux XChat is still better than the Windows version, even running through Cygwin/X :)
[06:18] <imbrandon> Fujitsu lol
[06:18] <imbrandon> superm1, like umm.... ok give me an example
[06:18] <imbrandon> oh ok ....
[06:19] <superm1> well in the mythplugins package.  I had fixed some mythweb packaging related things that marillat didn't have right.  he fixed it in a later version of his, but I already had it covered
[06:19] <superm1> so should I have adopted his new version number for the debian version?
[06:19] <imbrandon> so you mean if we have blah_1.0-1ubuntu3 and it has changes , then debian makes blah_1.0-2 and incorperates those changes ?
[06:20] <superm1> right
[06:20] <imbrandon> then we just sync , overiding our changes and blah_1.0-2 gos into the archive
[06:20] <imbrandon> assuming everething was covered, if they only incorperated part of it then we
[06:21] <superm1> have to put our patches back on
[06:21] <superm1> that are missed, irght?
[06:21] <imbrandon> make blah_1.0-2ubuntu1 with the remaining changes
[06:21] <Fujitsu> Then we merge, and keep the delta. Yay, more Ubuntu delta. What fun.
[06:21] <imbrandon> superm1, right
[06:21] <superm1> okay that makes a lot more sense then.
[06:22] <imbrandon> yea the versioning can be hell if you dont understand it , but once you catch on its easy ( assuming everyone plays by the rules )
[06:22] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, which they often don't, although it's generally a mistake.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: congratulations - uploaded all your new merges yet?
[06:23] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea ;) yay for epocs
[06:23] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, thanks :)
[06:23] <Fujitsu> 4 or so, I think.
[06:23] <superm1> well and it clearly starts to become a bit messy if the maintainer doesn't watch closely at what changes between upstream patches and their own
[06:23] <imbrandon> oh yea Fujitsu congrats man ;)
[06:23] <Fujitsu> superm1, they have to, or things explode :)
[06:23] <Fujitsu> Oh yes, that reminds me...
[06:23] <crimsun> I look forward to not having to ACK every single thing coming through u-u-s
[06:23] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, Hobbsee says you have a machine that you let MOTUs build on...
[06:23] <Hobbsee> crimsun: *grin*
[06:23] <Hobbsee> crimsun: yeah
[06:24] <Fujitsu> Yeah, thanks for all the sponsorships in the past, crimsun :) They're much appreciated.
[06:24] <crimsun> np
[06:24] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea select friends, not nessesarly MOTU's ;) want access ?
[06:24] <Fujitsu> Ah, if you want to give it to me, yes please :)
[06:24] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm not your friend? :)
[06:24] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, sure, give me a littlebit to finish up some stuff
[06:24] <imbrandon> ajmitch, haha you never asked for access ;)
[06:25] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, take your time, I'm in no big rush.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> he doesnt need access :P
[06:25] <ajmitch> imbrandon: probably since I have a fast box anyway - just no ppc to build on
[06:25] <imbrandon> yea i need to get a ppc box setup , i promised Seveas i would set one up for him
[06:26] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, you want a x86 account or x86_64 ?
[06:26] <ajmitch> imbrandon: if you or anyone can provide one for MOTUs to build on, it'd be great
[06:26] <ajmitch> I have x86 & amd64 already at home
[06:26] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, good question...
[06:26] <crimsun> ppc would be most appreciated.
[06:26] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i will likely open up a "small" build farm shortly for motu's once i find a good way to secure it so its semi automated accounts with ubuntu-dev access etc
[06:27] <Fujitsu> I've got an OKish x86, so I might grab x86_64, if you please.
[06:27] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, ok
[06:27] <ajmitch> I've opened my amd64 box up to others in the past if they need access
[06:28] <imbrandon> i just picked up 2 ppc 400mhz boxes with 256mb ram i plan to do it with, and i have 2 vm's on the amd64 ( that only Seveas takes advantage of atm )
[06:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: xen ftw
[06:28] <imbrandon> yea i'd like to find a way to make the accounts semi automated etc
[06:29] <imbrandon> yea the amd64 is a a xen setup , it WAS vmware
[06:29] <ajmitch> there's a 400MHz ppc at home, with 512MB RAM
[06:29] <ajmitch> but it gets used for OSX all the time
[06:29] <ajmitch> so I can't reboot it for building
[06:29] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, :(
[06:29] <imbrandon> heh i got these from a guy at the lug for 25$ each
[06:29] <ajmitch> yeah, this is ex-university
[06:30] <imbrandon> they dident have monitors or hdd's but i threw a cheap 20 gig in each , probably will ahve to up that if i give semi-public access
[06:30] <imbrandon> but headless should be fine
[06:31] <ajmitch> headless is preferable
[06:31] <ajmitch> less things to go wrong :)
[06:31] <imbrandon> superm1, one thing i did notice ( havent looked 100% is your changelog entries are past 80 chars long ) not a big deal, just fyi
[06:32] <imbrandon> ajmitch, exactly
[06:32] <imbrandon> hahaha
[06:32] <superm1> so they should be less then 80 chars most the time then?
[06:32] <Fujitsu> superm1, which?
[06:32] <imbrandon> yea just wrap them to the next line if needed with 4 spaces indent
[06:32] <superm1> changelog entries
[06:33] <superm1> k
[06:33] <imbrandon> like i said not a real big deal but its nice for those on 80x25
[06:33] <superm1> I work off a 1600x1200 display on my thinkpad, so I'm used to long lines for things in nano :)
[06:34] <superm1> hehe
[06:35] <imbrandon> yea thats why i use a high res is to get more windows on the screen(s) at once
[06:35] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:35] <imbrandon> not nessessarly more from each window
[06:36] <imbrandon> i want to konw how some do those consoles ON the desktop like i see in some screenshots
[06:36] <imbrandon> like as if the console was the wallpaper
[06:36] <superm1> well you can run some apps as a root window
[06:36] <superm1> xscreensaver comes to mind
[06:36] <imbrandon> that would just rock for irssi
[06:37] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha
[06:38] <superm1> I think I actually did that once just to show someone what it was like to have a cool screensaver as a background in fluxbox once, and then never used it again
[06:38] <imbrandon> yea i did the screensaver thing when i tried xgl
[06:38] <imbrandon> but never used it past that
[06:40] <superm1> well if you really wanted to just have a terminal on bottom, you probably could hack together a devilspie script to guarantee its always below other windows and it doesn't show up in the task list
[06:40] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:41] <jldugger> there's no "always on bottom" option? ;)
[06:42] <imbrandon> heya jldugger fancy seeing you here ;)
[06:42] <jldugger> hey
[06:42] <jldugger> im digging down into my laptop
[06:42] <imbrandon> cool
[06:42] <jldugger> and nobody on #ubuntu-laptop is alive
[06:43] <jldugger> so how high up on the motu totem pole are you, that people are asking you to look at their packages? ;)
[06:43] <imbrandon> heya i was gonan ask the guys too ( next meeting i made it to ) about a ubuntu loco team for us, i kinda been piecing togather the stuff for it
[06:43] <ajmitch> jldugger: he's *beyond* motu
[06:43] <imbrandon> jldugger, i'm core-dev now ;) past motu per se lol
[06:44] <ajmitch> we all sit at his feet & bask in his wisdom now
[06:44] <crimsun> (no, MOTU with main privs)
[06:44] <jldugger> does that mean you work for canonical, or just motu with MOAR POWAR?
[06:44] <lifeless> all haill imbrandon
[06:44] <imbrandon> hahahah ajmitch /me baskes in ajmitch and crimsun's dietyness
[06:44] <LaserJock> teach me, oh wise one
[06:44] <lifeless> jldugger: working for canonical and being core-dev/moru are orthogonal
[06:44] <crimsun> no, I'm basking in bddebian's and LaserJock's
[06:44] <LaserJock> bah
[06:44] <imbrandon> jldugger, MOTU with "moar powar" hehe
[06:45] <ajmitch> crimsun: the deity & raging MOTU-holic?
[06:45] <crimsun> aye
[06:45] <imbrandon> basicly instead of breaking 50% of peoples systems i can brake them all
[06:45] <LaserJock> lol
[06:45] <ajmitch> lifeless: are you doing more QA stuff yet?
[06:45] <LaserJock> and in mor interesting ways
[06:45] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea ;)
[06:46] <lifeless> ajmitch: some
[06:46] <ajmitch> but don't let keybuk hear that
[06:46] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:47] <imbrandon> jldugger, havin laptop probs ?
[06:48] <jldugger> more like tablet problems
[06:48] <imbrandon> ahh
[06:48] <jldugger> its so wierd
[06:48] <jldugger> when i convert it to tablet mode
[06:48] <jldugger> nothing happens
[06:48] <jldugger> not even an acpi event goes into the log
[06:48] <jldugger> i open it back up and i get one
[06:49] <imbrandon> oh wow, sounds harwareish
[06:49] <imbrandon> erm
[06:49] <jldugger> i can close the lid the regular way
[06:49] <imbrandon> that is strange
[06:49] <jldugger> does whatever you set it up to
[06:50] <jldugger> i was really hoping i could hack up lid.sh, but the events never come in
[06:50] <imbrandon> yea
[06:50] <jldugger> i wonder how windows does it
[06:51] <imbrandon> does it do anything else like a keyevent or ANYTHING ?
[06:51] <jldugger> i forgot how to check keyevern
[06:51] <jldugger> event
[06:51] <jldugger> but i got nvidia binary drivers to suspend
[06:52] <imbrandon> heh lucky
[06:52] <jldugger> just followed the directions
[06:52] <jldugger> on the wiki
[06:52] <jldugger> err
[06:52] <jldugger> hibernate
[06:52] <jldugger> not suspend
[06:52] <jldugger> suspend is a pile of poo anyways
[06:52] <imbrandon> run xev and see if it outputs anything when you
[06:52] <imbrandon> goto tablet mode by some weird chance
[06:54] <jldugger> nothing on xev that i can tell
[06:54] <imbrandon> hum
[06:55] <jldugger> what i was hoping to do was tie the conversion to a xrandr
[06:55] <imbrandon> and rotate the screen ?
[06:55] <imbrandon> heh
[06:56] <jldugger> pretty important unless you want to draw upside down
[06:56] <imbrandon> true
[06:59] <imbrandon> with all the "new crack" alien posts about xen and oo.o i'm suprised no one has tried a 2.8 kernel
[07:00] <ajmitch> imbrandon: 2.8?
[07:00] <imbrandon> erm 2.7 working branch stuff
[07:00] <jldugger> what?
[07:00] <ajmitch> there is a 2.7 branch?
[07:00] <jldugger> this is news
[07:00] <imbrandon> should be , i thought
[07:01] <ajmitch> nope
[07:01] <ajmitch> they don't work that way anymore
[07:01] <imbrandon> well that would be why there is no new crack stuff
[07:01] <imbrandon> ahh shows how much i follow the kernel dev
[07:01] <jldugger> there is
[07:01] <jldugger> tickless kernel
[07:02] <jldugger> they just use like -mm branch now
[07:02] <imbrandon> ah so its not an odd even thing anymore? lol
[07:02] <imbrandon> its been a while since i touched kernel source
[07:02] <jldugger> kerneltrap had a excerpt from lkml about  how to proceed
[07:03] <LaserJock> imbrandon: sorry, fighting with a simple shell script
[07:03] <imbrandon> heh
[07:03] <jldugger> http://kerneltrap.org/node/7164
[07:03] <imbrandon> ahh i have no desire to , was just a passing thought
[07:04] <imbrandon> i try not to rool my own unless there is an ABSOLUTE need to
[07:04] <imbrandon> s/rool/roll/
[07:04] <jldugger> its still fun to read kernel trap and see what's going on
[07:04] <imbrandon> i leave that to the deities like zul and such
[07:06] <LaserJock> grrr, I'm really trying not to use python
[07:09] <jldugger> man, i hope all these people automatically subscribed to my wiki page don't mind all these edits to it
[07:10] <imbrandon> most of the time they filter on words/pages and are subscribed to them all but on that note you can tick the box that says "trivial change" and it wont email anyone
[07:14] <jldugger> the other thing i'll probably have to file / find bugs about is using the pen as a mouse
[07:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:15] <jldugger> cuz theres no way i can hack that up on my own
[07:15] <jldugger> but getting the wiki page done and nvida+suspend is a good nights work
[07:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:16] <jldugger> i guess to bring this closer to motu topic, what's the policy on open source software written in a language that doesn't have an open source compiler yet?
[07:16] <joejaxx> imbrandon: how do i list all the current process along with their pid's other than top
[07:16] <jldugger> ps aux
[07:17] <imbrandon> jldugger, i'm looking at getting ubuntu-kc loco team togather to for all us ubuntu peeps from kclug ( and some from ks too htat arent in kclug have already contacted me )
[07:17] <imbrandon> joejaxx, ps ax
[07:17] <imbrandon> or ps aux
[07:17] <imbrandon> heh
[07:17] <jldugger> or just dig through /proc ;)
[07:18] <imbrandon> jldugger, well it would be kinda hard to bootstrap i source package into the archive without a compiler
[07:18] <jldugger> imbrandon, interesting, but are there many ubuntu-kc people?
[07:18] <imbrandon> jldugger, 3 of us so far, but i havent asked the lug yet
[07:18] <jldugger> i wonder if i count as KC
[07:18] <jldugger> its like a 2 hour drive from here
[07:19] <imbrandon> i kinda wanted to make it a subset of the current kclug incorerating other people that arent part of the lug ( nor wanna be )
[07:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:19] <imbrandon> crweb is in IL lol
[07:20] <jldugger> yes
[07:20] <jldugger> and you're counting him?
[07:20] <imbrandon> soo i think 2 hours is ok ;)
[07:20] <imbrandon> no
[07:20] <imbrandon> i meant he is part of kclug and in IL
[07:20] <jldugger> i have no idea why he's in kclug
[07:21] <imbrandon> lol me either, i think he is lonely most of the time, and thats not a bad thing, he seems harmless
[07:21] <imbrandon> and jbroudhard is in st joe ( 1 hour away ) soooo , maybe ubuntu-midwest ;)
[07:21] <LaserJock> imbrandon: can I come? ;-)
[07:22] <jldugger> heh
[07:22] <imbrandon> heh
[07:22] <jldugger> cowboyntu
[07:22] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[07:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, well that would make it ubuntu-usa
[07:23] <imbrandon> sides LaserJocki think the colorado loco team is closer to you ;)
[07:23] <LaserJock> there's a Utah one
[07:23] <LaserJock> and a California one too
[07:23] <imbrandon> LaserJock, you been makin it to the rlug's ?
[07:23] <LaserJock> I made 1
[07:23] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:23] <LaserJock> then missed 2 I think
[07:24] <imbrandon> hehe
[07:24] <LaserJock> they keep doing them on bad days
[07:24] <imbrandon> yea that was my problem when i was in reno
[07:24] <LaserJock> I was in Mt. View giving a presentation at Ubucon for one
[07:24] <LaserJock> so I don't feel bad
[07:24] <imbrandon> the problem i have in KC is its WAY down town
[07:24] <imbrandon> and normaly i dont have a ride ( as i dont drive )
[07:24] <imbrandon> soooo
[07:25] <lotusleaf> cars are evil
[07:25] <LaserJock> I drive everywhere
[07:25] <imbrandon> heh my last one was, well it got me lots of speeding tickets
[07:25] <imbrandon> so i sold it and got a motorcycle, but that dosent work well in KC, did in NV
[07:25] <imbrandon> KC weather is too unpredictable
[07:26] <lotusleaf> if you slide an F in between the K and C it's lunch
[07:26] <imbrandon> ( plus my lic is revolked atm for speeding )
[07:26] <imbrandon> soooo
[07:26] <imbrandon> shhh dont tell anyone ;)
[07:27] <imbrandon> jldugger, going for membership ? or just keeping your wiki updated ?
[07:34] <ajmitch> alright..
[07:35] <ajmitch> I'll pass on that thanks
[07:35] <ajmitch> strange..
[07:36] <lotusleaf> ajmitch: like Jim Morrison said, people are strange
[07:50] <imbrandon> hum the more i look at this , this might work out good
[07:50] <imbrandon> ( building a MOTU farm )
[07:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: just teach them about debsign -r
[07:51] <imbrandon> oh definately
[07:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:52] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:52] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh, that's cool
[07:52] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed :)
[07:52] <imbrandon> i'm wondering how much of it will be incorperated into personal repos on LP though
[07:52] <imbrandon> when/if that ever comes to be
[07:53] <ajmitch> imbrandon: nearly all of that, and REVU functionality as well
[07:53] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes, it's good not having your key on other  people's computers, isn't it? ;)
[07:54] <imbrandon> i liked the idea of sf.net build farms and suse build farms
[07:55] <imbrandon> seems alot of compnies are doing it
[07:55] <Hobbsee> :P at ajmitch
[07:55] <Hobbsee> just wait till i see you next...
[07:55] <ajmitch> and what will you do? :)
[07:55] <imbrandon> tickle you with a pointy stick
[07:59] <Hobbsee> ajmitch knows perfectly well what i'll do to him
[07:59] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i dont need to use my stick.  i can just tickle him so that he glares at me :P
[07:59] <ajmitch> stamp her foot & put hands on hips with an angry glare? ;)
[07:59] <imbrandon> lol
[08:00] <Hobbsee> no, and i dont think you ever saw that
[08:00] <ajmitch> lunch? it's 4pm!
[08:00] <Hobbsee> and?
[08:01] <ajmitch> slacker
[08:05] <jldugger> imbrandon, i donno. at the moment, i figure i'll move up the tree as I need to. there's plenty one can do without being approved
[08:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:05] <imbrandon> oh jez, suse makes the deb but provides the source in an rpm
[08:05] <imbrandon> *rolls eyes*
[08:08] <lfittl> morning
[08:08] <imbrandon> heya lfittl
[08:08] <lfittl> hey imbrandon
[08:08] <imbrandon> minghua, http://software.opensuse.org/download/openSUSE:/Tools/xUbuntu_6.06/
[08:09] <imbrandon> thats what i was talking about ^^
[08:11] <siretart> LaserJock: ajmitch: right, I've now moved in, and now I'm around way more often. I'm not that active in this channel, but I'm available
[08:11] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[08:11] <LaserJock> siretart: hi!
[08:11] <imbrandon> heya siretart
[08:11] <siretart> there is a deadline for a scientific paper this friday, this has priority, but I'm here
[08:11] <siretart> huhu ajmitch, LaserJock, morning imbrandon
[08:12] <ajmitch> siretart: I'll probably have a pile of universe freeze exceptions for you, since I won't get them done by thursday
[08:12] <siretart> (its 8:11am for me now)
[08:12] <ajmitch> siretart: depends on how willing you are to trust some of us MOTUs :)
[08:12] <imbrandon> amsterdam times ;)
[08:12] <siretart> ajmitch: I myself have one. FAI. Thomas Lange (debian maintainer and upstream) suggests to have fai 3.0 in edgy, since it may be easier to get running
[08:12] <minghua> imbrandon: there is "# Automatically added by dh_python" in the postinst", so looks like the .deb is built quite professionally
[08:13] <siretart> but he won't release it before weekend
[08:13] <minghua> hi siretart
[08:13] <siretart> huhu minghua
[08:19] <minghua> imbrandon: but it seems there is no source for osc
[08:19] <minghua> (the srpm is for kiwi, which has binary rpm packages, but no debs)
[08:19] <imbrandon> yea i noticed
[08:19] <imbrandon> no source, no install
[08:19] <imbrandon> heh
[08:19] <imbrandon> but i DID finaly find where they his the SaX2 branch
[08:19] <imbrandon> https://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/sax/sax-head
[08:29] <Q-FUNK> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-hotplug-devel&m=115926521015750&w=2
[08:29] <Q-FUNK> prety neat
[08:29] <Q-FUNK> could work well in LTSP
[08:36] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: for supporting local devices?
[08:45] <joejaxx> does anyone know how much space it whould take to download all of the main and restricted repos?
[08:45] <LaserJock> a fair amout
[08:45] <LaserJock> I can't remember
[08:46] <LaserJock> all archs and source too?
[08:46] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: mostly that it's a super tiny replacement for udev, which would be perfect on thin clients with low resources.
[08:46] <joejaxx> uh
[08:46] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i guess
[08:46] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I think the edgy LTSP will have that
[08:47] <LaserJock> not that specifically
[08:47] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yes i whould include all archs and source
[08:47] <LaserJock> but those features
[08:47] <LaserJock> joejaxx: it's proably less than 10 GB
[08:47] <joejaxx> LaserJock: wow really?
[08:48] <LaserJock> for Main
[08:48] <joejaxx> how much whould universe and multiverse taken up
[08:48] <LaserJock> only 4,000 packages
[08:48] <joejaxx> LaserJock: what about restricted though
[08:48] <LaserJock> restricted doesn't have much in it
[08:48] <joejaxx> ah
[08:49] <joejaxx> so now i need to know how much universe and multi verse whould take up
[08:49] <LaserJock> raphink: ping?
[08:50] <LaserJock> joejaxx: significantly more then Main ;-)
[08:50] <joejaxx> LaserJock: interesting
[08:51] <joejaxx> LaserJock: what whould you said whould be ample enought bandwidth for a mirror of main and restricted
[08:51] <joejaxx> enough*
[08:53] <LaserJock> really not sure
[08:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[08:58] <LaserJock> depends on how much traffic you get
[08:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[08:58] <joejaxx> LaserJock: thank you for the information :)
[08:58] <ajmitch> dholbach!
[08:58] <dholbach> good morning - HAPPY HUG DAY!
[08:58] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[08:58] <LaserJock> hi dholbach
[08:59] <dholbach> hi LaserJock
[08:59] <ajmitch> dholbach: it ought to be another REVU day, imho
[09:01] <dholbach> absolutely
[09:01] <dholbach> nobody stepped up to write an announcement :-(
[09:01] <dholbach> we agreed on it before
[09:01] <ajmitch> sorry about that
[09:02] <dholbach> no - I didn't mean to blame oyu
[09:02] <LaserJock> sure ;-)
[09:02] <lfittl> morning dholbach :)
[09:02] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[09:02] <imbrandon> hug day today ?
[09:03] <dholbach> yeah
[09:03] <imbrandon> cool
[09:03] <dholbach> what do we do about REVUing?
[09:03] <dholbach> tomorrow will be universe freeze
[09:03] <imbrandon> i've been revuing as i have time
[09:03] <imbrandon> and afaik all the active motus in here have been
[09:03] <imbrandon> even without a "set day"
[09:03] <imbrandon> heh
[09:04] <dholbach> ok, what I suggest now is: if there are easy fixes to do, attach a debdiff to fix them an do it
[09:04] <dholbach> it doesn't make sense to go through n iterations at this point
[09:04] <imbrandon> yea
[09:04] <dholbach> if the package maintainer disagrees, he can still roll back
[09:04] <ajmitch> dholbach: will you still consider new packages after the freeze?
[09:05] <dholbach> i wouldn't like that - because I already discussed it with Matt
[09:05] <ajmitch> hm
[09:05] <dholbach> UniverseFreeze is much later than UpstreamVersionFreeze this time
[09:05] <dholbach> you can try to talk to him
[09:05] <dholbach> I will do UVF exceptions, yes - but for NEW packages - talk to him instead
[09:06] <ajmitch> some xen-related stuff I'm doing, and a couple of others from debian
[09:06] <dholbach> talk to Matt :/
[09:06] <dholbach> you might not have to drop it yet
[09:06] <dholbach> me too
[09:07] <imbrandon> yea NEW is getting backed up
[09:07] <dholbach> I hope that stuff gets processed
[09:07] <dholbach> everybody's busy with beta
[09:07] <ajmitch> and another few authentication-related packages I didn't get round to tidying up & uploading
[09:07] <ajmitch> too many loose ends I haven't tidied
[09:07] <imbrandon> ajmitch, anything i can help with ?
[09:07] <ajmitch> I'd have to dig through it & see
[09:08] <imbrandon> kk well if you run accross soemting lemme know
[09:08] <ajmitch> & it's usually nothing major to do, the time it takes for me to grab it all, I'd be able to update it
[09:09] <imbrandon> heh
[09:09] <ajmitch> maybe I can stick it on revu now
[09:10] <ajmitch> hm, empty debian/copyright, I didn't fill that one in
[09:10] <LaserJock> bah, ubuntu-archive won't mind ;-)
[09:10] <imbrandon> lol
[09:11] <LaserJock> tell them you'll do it on the next upload ;-)
[09:11] <imbrandon> hahah
[09:11] <superm1> hey guys, I just debianized another package in hopes of fitting it in before the freeze tomorrow.  I threw up "backstep"
[09:12] <imbrandon> bah compiling suse stuff on ubuntnu just plain sucks /me gives up on sax untill edgy+1
[09:12] <imbrandon> the deps are all nuts
[09:13] <ajmitch> ok, gktools updated
[09:13] <ajmitch> so pick over it on REVU :)
[09:13] <imbrandon> anyone have some sugestions about what i can do with bug 59534  ( my main problem is libvisual-0.4-plugins isnt in main )
[09:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59534 in libvisual "Libvisual autoinstall by demand" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59534
[09:13] <ajmitch> I have no idea how rough it still is :)
[09:15] <imbrandon> hum i guess a review and MIR would be the best way
[09:15] <ajmitch> probably
[09:16] <ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3259
[09:16] <ajmitch> pick that over, I have to head out in ~10 minutes
[09:16] <imbrandon> kk
[09:16] <ajmitch> no idea if it still builds ;)
[09:17] <imbrandon> i can run revu-tools now , hehe
[09:20] <ajmitch> thanks
[09:20] <joejaxx> does anyone know why webmin was removed?
[09:20] <imbrandon> np, umm why dosent revu just nuke the changes file instead of making it unreadable
[09:20] <imbrandon> joejaxx, webmin is evil, they ignore cve stuff
[09:22] <imbrandon> its in the blacklist sees , qoute :
[09:22] <joejaxx> imbrandon: ?
[09:22] <imbrandon> # mdz, 2004-06-14: upstream deliberately obfuscates vulnerabilities
[09:22] <imbrandon> # mdz, 2004-06-20: CAN-2002-0757, CAN-2003-0101, SNS 74, SNS 75
[09:22] <imbrandon> webmin
[09:22] <imbrandon> ^^ from the blacklist
[09:22] <imbrandon> this a no no
[09:22] <joejaxx> oh wow
[09:22] <Q-FUNK> would anybody know when janimo is online usually?
[09:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch, looks to ftbs , messed up desktop file?
[09:24] <imbrandon> desktop-file-install created an invalid desktop file!
[09:24] <imbrandon> make[3] : *** [install-data-local]  Error 1
[09:24] <ajmitch> how special
[09:25] <ajmitch> fedora crap, I'm sure :)
[09:25] <imbrandon> yup
[09:25] <imbrandon> something about X-Fedora
[09:25] <imbrandon> not sure
[09:25] <ajmitch> it hates X-Fedora & Application
[09:25] <ajmitch> will patch that
[09:26] <imbrandon> looks liek the "actual" build went fine though
[09:27] <ajmitch> I'll sort it later
[09:27] <imbrandon> want me just to remove those two from the rules ?
[09:27] <imbrandon> e.g.
[09:27] <imbrandon> 		--add-category X-Fedora \
[09:27] <imbrandon>                 --add-category=Application \
[09:29] <imbrandon> oh yea now that Fujitsu is a MOTU he can revu ;) hahaha
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Oh $*#$ :P
[09:29] <LaserJock> imbrandon: shouldn't you be asleep?
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon, LaserJock.
[09:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock, probably, but i got up late today
[09:30] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fix universe, kthnksbye!
[09:30] <Hobbsee> and it's MY POINTY STICK!
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Long done, Hobbsee.
[09:30] <imbrandon> hahaha
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Universe is absolute perfect in every single way.
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Not a single flaw.
[09:31] <Fujitsu> *absolutely
[09:31] <imbrandon> heh
[09:31] <Fujitsu> :O
[09:31] <imbrandon> LaserJock, question is shouldnt /you/ too ;)
[09:31] <imbrandon> ( sleep )
[09:32] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, but you are +2 hrs
[09:32] <Fujitsu> I've only made 4 uploads today :(
[09:32] <Fujitsu> But I have been at school.
[09:33] <imbrandon> well i was/am glad to see someone else from my lug getting into the ubuntu community other than just installing it ;)
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Who?
[09:33] <imbrandon> jldugger ^^
[09:34] <Fujitsu> Aha, I saw him on earlier :)
[09:34] <imbrandon> most of the lug /uses/ ubuntu but very few participate in the community much
[09:34] <imbrandon> we have like one token gentoo guy and one token slack guy , all the rest use ubuntu or kubuntu
[09:35] <Fujitsu> 'tis the same worldwide, I'd presume. If everybody participated in the community, Freenode would have exploded years ago :P
[09:35] <imbrandon> haha
[09:35] <imbrandon> well not just irc, email, forums , etc etc etc
[09:36] <imbrandon> i can count the messages on our ML on my hands this last month hehe
[09:36] <imbrandon> but we have something like 40 members
[09:36] <imbrandon> or thereabouts
[09:37] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody use mini-dinstall here?
[09:39] <imbrandon> woot i'm a level 38 idler
[09:39] <imbrandon> heh
[09:39] <lotusleaf> imbrandon: crawl has more of a challenge ;)
[09:39] <imbrandon> [02:37]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon, the Digital_KDE_Blasphmey, has attained level 38! Next level in 1 day, 22:54:30.
[09:39] <imbrandon> crawl ?
[09:39] <lotusleaf> !crawl
[09:39] <ubotu> crawl: Dungeon Crawl, a text-based roguelike game. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.0.0beta26-7 (dapper), package size 619 kB, installed size 1512 kB
[09:40] <lotusleaf> imbrandon: the most addictive game in the world
[09:40] <imbrandon> heh idlerpg i dont have to do anything though
[09:40] <imbrandon> my kinda game
[09:40] <lotusleaf> well, true. ;)
[09:42] <Fujitsu> O_o
[09:42] <LaserJock> hmm, somebody must be looking at TeX
[09:43] <Fujitsu> I don't see changelog entries like this often:
[09:43] <Fujitsu>   * Sync with Ubuntu.
[09:43] <Fujitsu> (in Debian)
[09:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, why?
[09:43] <LaserJock> I've seen a few
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> *blink*
[09:43] <LaserJock> my email has all of a sudden gotten a few tex emails
[09:43] <LaserJock> hmm, that's a rather stupid sentence
[09:44] <Fujitsu> Not really, it's a little odd, but not too bad.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> I uploaded a galeon merge about 7 hours ago... It appeared on my +packages, but the version doesn't exist yet, it gives a 404.
[09:46] <Fujitsu> Wow, yeah... 10 TeX emails.
[09:46] <Fujitsu> 11, then.
[09:48] <Fujitsu> Hi crimsun.
[09:48] <crimsun> thanks for clarifying 62422
[09:48] <Fujitsu> *unpokes.
[09:48] <Fujitsu> Yes, oops. Sorry.
[09:49] <Fujitsu> I think I must have copied the description from the mpd one, and changed all the details except the name.
[09:49] <Fujitsu> Now I see why you suggested I grab it from experimental :)
[09:50] <Fujitsu> O_o
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Another 10 or so closings of TeX bugs.
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Somebody has been having fun...
[09:51] <LaserJock> did Debian just upload new TeX?
[09:51] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, looks like it... I got like 30 emails about it to -science...
[09:51] <LaserJock> mhm
[09:51] <Fujitsu> We're about to get growled at by them, aren't we?
[09:52] <LaserJock> not if we are prompt about it I don't think
[09:52] <LaserJock> i.e. we should look into it before edgy is released
[09:52] <Fujitsu> But that'll mean a UVFe...
[09:52] <LaserJock> not necessarily
[09:53] <LaserJock> if they just bumped the Debian revision
[09:53] <Fujitsu> True..
[09:53] <LaserJock> yep
[09:53] <LaserJock> 3.0-22 with a high importance
[09:53] <LaserJock> for tetex-base
[09:53] <Fujitsu> There's also tex-common yesterday, new upstream.
[09:54] <Fujitsu> (it's native)
[09:54] <Fujitsu> 0.29 -> 0.30.
[09:54] <crimsun> Fujitsu: (btw, you can mark that one in progress since you've already got a source package ready to upload, or you can just upload and mark it fix committed)
[09:54] <Fujitsu> crimsun, true, I shall upload it, but I couldn't last night :P
[09:54] <Fujitsu> And another 8 or so mails...
[09:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, ping.
[09:57] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, pong
[09:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, did you get around to creating me an account?
[09:57] <crimsun> and did you get me a pony?
[09:57] <imbrandon> oh , no i got sidetracked with some amarok bugs, will do now
[09:58] <Fujitsu> Ah, thanks.
[09:58] <imbrandon> crimsun, no pony for you
[09:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:58] <crimsun> bah
[09:59] <imbrandon> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
[10:00] <Fujitsu> Do packages often vanish into the Soyuzian void?
[10:00] <crimsun> what sort of packages?
[10:00] <Fujitsu> I uploaded galeon, it appeared on my +packages about 7 hours ago, but the new version is still yet to be seen.
[10:01] <crimsun> you'll get two separate ACCEPT e-mails, actually
[10:01] <crimsun> the first is for the upload, the second is for the source
[10:01] <Fujitsu> crimsun, noted, and one to the list, I think I got both, but I'll check.
[10:01] <crimsun> (since the queue is in manual processing mode)
[10:01] <Fujitsu> Ah, so there's no option for just main freezing at this time?
[10:02] <crimsun> not afaict
[10:02] <Fujitsu> I did note that the first ACCEPT email said it was waiting distro manager approval, but I presumed it always did that, and was automagic.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> And the new galeon isn't in any of the queues... Should it be?
[10:03] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: How did the meeting go this morning?
[10:04] <imbrandon> not till the source is accepted afaik
[10:04] <Fujitsu> TheMuso, OK :)
[10:04] <TheMuso> Congratulations then!
[10:04] <crimsun>     galeon | 2.0.2-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
[10:04] <crimsun>     galeon | 2.0.2-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[10:04] <imbrandon> TheMuso, him and cbx33 got in ;)
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Nope -2ubuntu1 is mine.
[10:04] <TheMuso> Cool.
[10:04] <Fujitsu> (although that's also mine, it's an old one)
[10:05] <crimsun> are you using dput?
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[10:05] <crimsun> hmm, you already got the ACCEPTs
[10:06] <Fujitsu> I can't see the second one here.
[10:06] <crimsun> oh, you just got one accept?
[10:06] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[10:06] <crimsun> ah, then it hasn't been source accepted yet
[10:06] <Fujitsu> OK.
[10:06] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if it appeared somewhere.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Thanks for explaining that.
[10:07] <crimsun> once it's source accepted, it'll appear on edgy-changes
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Noted.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Are there normally two emails, or just because it's frozen?
[10:08] <crimsun> the latter
[10:08] <Fujitsu> OK.
[10:09] <crimsun> if the source package name already exists doesn't generate any new binary packages, you'll get the one source accept
[10:09] <crimsun> exists and ^
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Yup, that's what I thought.
[10:12] <imbrandon> LaserJock, here is what you need for your next notebook http://static2.instructables.com/pub/FL7/YG8X/FL7YG8XV3WEP27T6EB.medium.jpg
[10:14] <LaserJock> imbrandon: oh, that is impressive
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[10:15] <jblack> Dear santa: All I want for christmas is my two front teeth and for the mythtv pacakges to not be 1/2 0.20 and 1/2 0.18. :)
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Is there a REVU admin around?
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Or somebody who can obliterate my accidental galeon upload from this morning?
[10:16] <crimsun> jblack: should be fixed next week
[10:16] <imbrandon> jblack, i'm working on the other half right now
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Because I forgot dput was defaulting to REVU for my first upload >_>
[10:16] <jblack> imbrandon: You rock.
[10:16] <crimsun> Fujitsu: hah, that was the dput question ;)
[10:16] <imbrandon> should be done in the next day or two like crimsun said
[10:17] <Fujitsu> crimsun, aha.
[10:17] <Fujitsu> Hm
[10:17] <Fujitsu> Any MOTU tasks anybody can suggest?
[10:18] <jblack> imbrandon: Your work has made a change in my day to day life.
[10:18] <crimsun> you probably shouldn't ask that within reading distance of LaserJock, bddebian, or Hobbsee
[10:18] <Hobbsee> fix the archive.
[10:18] <Hobbsee> write my assignment for me
[10:18] <Hobbsee> there's a start.
[10:18] <jblack> within two days of 0.20 I put my phone company and satellite dish company that their services were no longer required. :)
[10:18] <crimsun> (toldya)
[10:18] <jblack> (of me trying 0.20).
[10:18] <Hobbsee> :P
[10:18] <Fujitsu> What a MOTUish task the latter of those is, Hobbsee.
[10:19] <imbrandon> heh
[10:19] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:19] <jblack> Thats like $80 a month you're saving me. That's a lot for someone between jobs. :)
[10:19] <Hobbsee> it's only part of my uni degree, yes
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Aw, why are there no new members of motu on LP? It's got a cool emblem :'(
[10:21] <Fujitsu> Ah, so /that's/ where my mpd upload went. I left out `ubuntu' from the command-line as well. Fortunately, I've changed the default now :)
[10:22] <crimsun> it's actually safer initially to set the default to some nonsense one
[10:23] <imbrandon> like local
[10:23] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:23] <crimsun> that way you /have/ to type 'dput ubuntu ..'
[10:23] <Fujitsu> Brb,
[10:25] <cbx33> mornin all
[10:26] <imbrandon> heya cbx33
[10:26] <imbrandon> contrats btw
[10:26] <cbx33> thank you
[10:26] <imbrandon> congrats*
[10:26] <cbx33> you know I didn't even see that was missplet
[10:26] <cbx33> must be tired
[10:26] <cbx33> s/missplet/misspelt
[10:28] <LaserJock> looked good to me too :/
[10:28] <Fujitsu> Hi ogra.
[10:28] <ogra> hey
[10:29] <cbx33> boo ogra
[10:30] <Hobbsee> hah
[10:30] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: just as long as it's not a new upstream release
[10:30] <LaserJock> we only want a patched Hobbsee
[10:30] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, she's officially supported?
[10:31] <LaserJock> no telling what havok a new upstream release might do
[10:31] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[10:31] <crimsun> I think I'm going to keep mum on those ramifications
[10:31] <LaserJock> crimsun: what are you doing up?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: and how would a patched Hobbsee work?
[10:31] <crimsun> huh? I'm always awake at this hour
[10:32] <LaserJock> really?
[10:32] <crimsun> (besides, I need to convert this assignment to Python from Java)  Yeah.
[10:32] <TheMuso> crimsun: Re espeak: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/espeak_1.15.orig.tar.gz
[10:32] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: bionic woman
[10:32] <crimsun> TheMuso: excellent, thank you
[10:32] <TheMuso> np
[10:32] <Fujitsu> crimsun.... TO Java!/
[10:32] <Fujitsu> *!?
[10:32] <crimsun> Fujitsu: (I think you misparsed that)
[10:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: dude, you seriously need a break
[10:32] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[10:32] <Fujitsu> True.
[10:33] <crimsun> remember, I don't need more insanity
[10:33] <Fujitsu> Come on crimsun, take a break :)
[10:33] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, well, obviously...
[10:33] <cbx33> crimsun: do you rememebr you helped me out a little while back when my usb-audio  midi device was being cpicked up as hw0
[10:33] <crimsun> cbx33: vaguely, hopefully you're not offended if I don't say it's crystal-clear
[10:33] <cbx33> i recently setup a new machine .... can you remember what we did?
[10:34] <cbx33> heheh np
[10:34] <crimsun> cbx33: what was the original issue?
[10:34] <cbx33> when I boot with my USB midi box plugged in
[10:34] <cbx33> it steals hw0
[10:34] <cbx33> so JACK throws a fit
[10:34] <crimsun> oh, this must be a dapper box
[10:34] <cbx33> if I plug it in after booted up
[10:35] <cbx33> it's fine
[10:35] <cbx33> yes it is
[10:35] <cbx33> will hopefully be edgy soon
[10:35] <crimsun> ok, I 'fixed' that in #31109, #46996, and #46998 by placing the following in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base:
[10:36] <crimsun> options snd-usb-audio index=-2
[10:36] <cbx33> thank
[10:37] <crimsun> np
[10:40] <cbx33> crimsun: on the ubuntustudio.com setup page....they have it written as  options snd-usb-audio index=1 which didnt work, should I notify them?
[10:40] <crimsun> well, you should tell them this:
[10:40] <crimsun> index=1 is valid only if you also explicitly specify index=0 for another card (via an options line)
[10:40] <LaserJock> btw, they are going to start working on mubuntu
[10:41] <cbx33> ah i see
[10:41] <cbx33> LaserJock: cool
[10:41] <Hobbsee> cbx33: congratulations
[10:41] <Hobbsee> cbx33: fix all of universe with Fujitsu.  kthnksbye!
[10:41] <cbx33> thanks Hobbsee
[10:41] <LaserJock> I was talking to them about getting metapackages in Universe
[10:42] <Fujitsu> Mubuntu?
[10:42] <cbx33> LaserJock: it's funny I had actually written a short spec about meta packages for an ubuntustudio subdistro
[10:42] <cbx33> and a few weeks later mubuntu popped up
[10:42] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: multimedia ubuntu
[10:42] <TheMuso> cbx33: Where can one find out more about mubuntu?
[10:43] <LaserJock> well, one of the guys was wanting to write an Automatix script to do it
[10:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, you said the forbidden.
[10:43] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:43] <cbx33> TheMuso: I don;t know
[10:43] <LaserJock> so I helped straighten some things out
[10:43] <Fujitsu> That's just wrong wrong wrong... And I hope they do eventually get their metapackages in.
[10:43] <Fujitsu> Good, good.
[10:43] <cbx33> I just hope it's going to include things like ardour
[10:44] <LaserJock> TheMuso: you could ask on #ubuntu-studio I think
[10:44] <LaserJock> the question was how to handle Multiverse packages
[10:44] <LaserJock> so I suggested making mubuntu-desktop and also mubuntu-multiverse metapackages
[10:44] <cbx33> LaserJock: good plan
[10:45] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[10:45] <Fujitsu> What multiverse stuff do they use?
[10:45] <LaserJock> lame
[10:46] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Thanks.
[10:46] <LaserJock> anyway, I encouraged them to get things into Universe/Multiverse and go the packaging route as opposed to the Automatix route
[10:46] <LaserJock> so hopefully something will come of it
[10:46] <cbx33> LaserJock: ++
[10:46] <cbx33> if not, I may pick up the interest ;)
[10:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I hope you succeed. The less Automatix in the world, the better.
[10:47] <LaserJock> dolson is a cool dude and knows how to package
[10:47] <LaserJock> so I think it'll work out
[10:47] <TheMuso> The biggest problem with something like mubuntu for audio etc is a realtime kernel.
[10:47] <cbx33> yes
[10:47] <cbx33> but then I havn't had a problem with it
[10:47] <TheMuso> I have decided that when I get things set up here, I will be using another distro for audio stuff, for a few reasons.
[10:48] <crimsun> well, the -rt kernel itself isn't that big an issue; it's integrating -rt with the other Ubuntu patches
[10:48] <TheMuso> crimsun: Indeed.
[10:48] <crimsun> I looked at it for Breezy, ran away, then looked at it again for Dapper and ran away again, so I didn't bother for Edgy
[10:48] <TheMuso> -rt is so damn intrusive.
[10:49] <TheMuso> crimsun: It may be easier starting vanilla, applying -rt, and then putting the other stuff on top of that.
[10:50] <TheMuso> But I don't know a hell of a lot about it.
[10:50] <crimsun> that's the plan
[10:50] <crimsun> although honestly I'm not sure the approach is worth the go
[10:50] <TheMuso> Right.
[10:51] <crimsun> most people aren't going to be buying exotic hardware, ala bigiron, for their setups
[10:51] <cbx33> crimsun: ++
[10:51] <cbx33> it seems to work fine with my setup
[10:51] <TheMuso> crimsun: I have found the -rt patch when I have used it to be really nice however.
[10:52] <cbx33> maybe I shoul dbuy a delta1010
[10:52] <crimsun> TheMuso has 3 of those iirc
[10:52] <TheMuso> cbx33: I have a 1010LT and love it.
[10:52] <TheMuso> crimsun: A Delta 66, a 1010LT, and a DMX 6Fire 24/96.
[10:52] <crimsun> ah
[10:52] <TheMuso> All synched toghether.
[10:53] <TheMuso> together even
[10:53] <cbx33> oooh
[10:53] <cbx33> lovely
[10:53] <cbx33> I had a small studio whilst at uni
[10:53] <crimsun> three synced is damned impressive
[10:53] <TheMuso> And with a little patch to alsa-lib to one of teh plugins, it works with jack.
[10:53] <cbx33> akai DPS12i - logic gold - spriti folio
[10:53] <cbx33> JACK rocks
[10:53] <cbx33> I'd like to get more into it again
[10:53] <TheMuso> With 3 synched cards, damn right it does.
[10:53] <cbx33> I hope I get to work on the sounds for edgy + `
[10:54] <cbx33> 1
[10:54] <Plug> right, ajmitch
[10:54] <Plug> have I got a deal for you!
[10:54] <TheMuso> cbx33: Were you the one who did the sounds for edgy?
[10:54] <TheMuso> If so, I have some ideas for edgy+1.
[10:55] <LaserJock> I want a seasonal sound theme selector for edgy+1 ;-)
[10:55] <crimsun> that's crazy talk
[10:55] <TheMuso> Hey thats not a bad idea. :)
[10:56] <crimsun> next thing you know they'll be wanting seasonal ponies
[10:56] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, like I ever listen to sound in Linux
[10:56] <LaserJock> but still, if I did, that's what I'd want
[10:56] <crimsun> sound? pssht, what's that?
[10:56] <TheMuso> Although I quite like the sounds for this release.
[10:57] <crimsun> tbh I think Edgy is more polished than Dapper
[10:57] <LaserJock> crimsun: that thing that never works
[10:57] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:57] <cbx33> TheMuso: yes it was me
[10:57] <crimsun> don't make me invoke the pointy stick o' doom
[10:57] <cbx33> I have a change to make to the shutdown one yet though
[10:57] <TheMuso> Ah right.
[10:57] <cbx33> it's too darn long
[10:58] <TheMuso> Agreed.
[10:58] <cbx33> heheh
[10:58] <cbx33> TheMuso: want to move to a pm?
[10:58] <cbx33> I'm interested in hearing your ideas
[10:58] <LaserJock> I'm my P I it's not too long, j/k
[10:58] <LaserJock> s/I'm/on/
[10:58] <LaserJock> shesh, lack of sleep
[10:58] <TheMuso> cbx33: WHy did you choose a plain key of C major? :)
[10:58] <cbx33> it's just right on my Athlon 3200 here as well
[10:59] <TheMuso> cbx33: sure
[10:59] <cbx33> TheMuso: I dunno.....just seemed to work i guess
[11:01] <Plug> ok, preparing for release
[11:01] <Plug> should I remove my changelog of all the cruft between versions on revu?
[11:01] <Plug> (ie can it say -10 Initial release)
[11:01] <Plug> or will people wonder where 1-9 went
[11:02] <crimsun> 0.1-0ubuntu1
[11:02] <crimsun> or rather, 1.0-0ubuntu1
[11:02] <imbrandon> Plug, you shouldent bump the version each time you upload to revu ;)
[11:02] <LaserJock> REVU is rather interesting that way
[11:02] <Plug> Erm, I'd think you should do excatly that
[11:02] <crimsun> the only thing that's necessary is that it should be something-0ubuntu1
[11:02] <LaserJock> not exactly the true packaging experience
[11:03] <Plug> so you can tell builds apart somehow!
[11:03] <LaserJock> always including the source tarball, for instance
[11:03] <Plug> crimsun: I am currently up to -0ubuntu10
[11:03] <imbrandon> they are seperated by date on REVU
[11:03] <Plug> so I can regress, or use an epoch, or something
[11:03] <Plug> imbrandon: packages built from REVU aren't
[11:04] <crimsun> Plug: from a maintainer's perspective, it makes more sense to have the initial Edgy upload be foo-0ubuntu1
[11:04] <imbrandon> REVU wont care if its an older version uploaded
[11:04] <crimsun> I'd avoid epochs
[11:04] <LaserJock> the packages on REVU are sperated by date
[11:04] <LaserJock> so you can upload the same version over and over without problems
[11:04] <crimsun> Plug: besides, with whichever vcs you're using, the changes are already tracked
[11:04] <Plug> I'd be worried that people will build the package to test, and how can you tell one -0ubuntu1 version from another, easily, as a tester
[11:04] <imbrandon> yea what laserjock said ( if dput complains remove the .upload file )
[11:05] <Plug> so the consensus appears to be, go back to -0ubuntu1 :)
[11:05] <imbrandon> Plug, by date on revu
[11:05] <crimsun> Plug: for the initial Ubuntu upload, that's my suggestion
[11:06] <Plug> imbrandon: harder when I've build a binary package from the source I downloaded, but people using REVU have to be careful I guess
[11:07] <LaserJock> why?
[11:07] <imbrandon> from what ive been told, the version should always stay at what is targeted for upload to the archives on REVU
[11:07] <LaserJock> most of the time they aren't going to be grabing 5 different versions
[11:07] <Plug> I quite often build binaries of versions of something I'm working on, for people to test
[11:08] <imbrandon> only the latest
[11:08] <LaserJock> ah, well that sort of makes sense
[11:08] <imbrandon> sure , just tag something like ~test1 etc on it ( just dont upload that to revu )
[11:09] <crimsun> TheMuso: out of curiosity, does libespeak1 not contain anything that was formerly in espeak?
[11:10] <TheMuso> crimsun: Versions prior to 1.15 did not have a shared library. libespeak1's contents is entirely new.
[11:11] <crimsun> TheMuso: ok. And espeak-data is entirely new for post-1.11?
[11:11] <TheMuso> crimsun: espeak-data is stuff that was in espeak from version 1.11 and before. Espeak-data was created as the shared library as well as the binary executable need the data it contains. Have I used the conflicts/replaces stuff incorrectly?
[11:12] <crimsun> (i.e., checking if it makes more sense to C+R < 1.15)
[11:12] <crimsun> no, your intent is correct
[11:12] <StevenK> TheMuso: Stupid question, if I may.
[11:12] <TheMuso> StevenK: Fire away.
[11:13] <TheMuso> crimsun: I did that because there weren't any versions that were made as packages between 1.11 and 1.15
[11:13] <StevenK> TheMuso: Well, it depends if you have used Orca.
[11:13] <TheMuso> StevenK: If I've used orca, hell yes I have!
[11:13] <crimsun> TheMuso: right, I'm trying to cover the case where someone [perhaps overzealous]  has taken your prior packaging infrastructure and generated his/her own debs, say for 1.14
[11:14] <StevenK> TheMuso: Bart likes it, except for one niggling thing. If he is moving down a list, when he moves the next element, it should stop saying the previous element - which it doesn't.
[11:14] <StevenK> TheMuso: Is there some way to set that behaviour?
[11:14] <TheMuso> StevenK: What prog?
[11:14] <StevenK> It seems to occur for everything.
[11:14] <StevenK> Even icons on the desktop, for example.
[11:15] <TheMuso> Is he using flat review mode, or just the arrow keys?
[11:15] <TheMuso> And what version of orca?
[11:17] <Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3262
[11:17] <Plug> go go go! :)
[11:17] <StevenK> TheMuso: 1.0.0-0ubuntu1
[11:17] <StevenK> TheMuso: However, for the other question, I couldn't say.
[11:18] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:18] <TheMuso> What synth?
[11:18] <StevenK> Emacspeak
[11:18] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:19] <TheMuso> Because I haven't had such weird problems. I'll have another play later, but I can't remember such behavior happening.
[11:19] <Fujitsu> Bart, StevenK?
[11:20] <TheMuso> I haven't seen any posts yet.
[11:20] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Bart Bunting.
[11:20] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Bart Bunting, a vision-impaired co-worker of mine
[11:20] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[11:21] <StevenK> TheMuso: Any help/pointers would be cool.
[11:22] <sivang> does someone know how to make scp skip already existing files?
[11:22] <TheMuso> StevenK: I'll see what I can find.
[11:22] <StevenK> TheMuso: Thanks muchly
[11:23] <TheMuso> StevenK: No problem.
[11:23] <TheMuso> COming to SLUG on Friday?
[11:23] <StevenK> TheMuso: Not this month.
[11:23] <TheMuso> RIghto
[11:23] <TheMuso> StevenK: DOn't mention it.
[11:24] <givre> dholbach: I apply your patch, and it seams now good for revu. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3253 .Thanks
[11:24] <dholbach> givre: rock and roll
[11:25] <dholbach> (to upload you can do this:           debuild -S -sa -k<mail address>          )
[11:25] <dholbach> so I could do    debuild -S -sa<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:25] <dholbach> that's when I sponsor uploads for somebody else
[11:25] <dholbach> but good work on the package
[11:25] <dholbach> somebody else to review it, so we can get it in?
[11:25] <LaserJock> ok, time for bed for me
[11:25] <cbx33> nn LaserJock
[11:25] <imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
[11:25] <dholbach> night LaserJock
[11:25] <cbx33> hi dholbach
[11:26] <Fujitsu> 'night, LaserJock.
[11:26] <LaserJock> 16 hr Ubuntu day
[11:26] <Fujitsu> dholbach, that'd be nice.
[11:26] <dholbach> Fujitsu: hm?
[11:26] <dholbach> Fujitsu: you review it too?
[11:26] <Fujitsu> Getting it in :)
[11:26] <Fujitsu> dholbach, I could...
[11:26] <dholbach> cool
[11:26] <Fujitsu> I can't actually advocate it, though.
[11:26] <dholbach> because we need a revu admin for that?
[11:27] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, poke ajmitch about that later , he can fix you up
[11:27] <Fujitsu> OK, will do :)
[11:27] <dholbach> Fujitsu: just add your comment then
[11:27] <dholbach> that's good enough
[11:27] <dholbach> ;)
[11:27] <crimsun> sire.tart is active now
[11:27] <Laser_away> bah, don't let mere formalities get in the way of raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU action
[11:27] <dholbach> that's the spirit
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Can I use dget or something on REVU?
[11:28] <imbrandon> on the dsc file yes
[11:28] <imbrandon> dget <url to dsc>
[11:28] <Fujitsu> OK, good.
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[11:29] <imbrandon> dholbach, is that dh@ you ?
[11:29] <dholbach> imbrandon: yes
[11:29] <imbrandon> cool ok
[11:31] <imbrandon> Plug, looking at yours now
[11:31] <Plug> imbrandon: thanks!
[11:31] <givre> dholbach: great, thanks for the tips, i'll remember it
[11:31] <dholbach> givre: cheers
[11:32] <Fujitsu> My connection to imbrandon's server has just become really laggy :(
[11:32] <imbrandon> hum
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Is ntfs-3g meant to have a large number of changelog entries?
[11:33] <Fujitsu> I don't think so...
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Especially some with the distro set to unstable.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Or was this in Debian first?
[11:34] <Fujitsu> It can't have been.
[11:35] <Plug> Nothing is in Debian first any more :)
[11:35] <Fujitsu> givre, dholbach: The changelog is iffy.
[11:35] <givre> Fujitsu: the thing is that i use it in my own repo since the first version
[11:35] <Fujitsu> givre, the changelog is not right...
[11:36] <Fujitsu> For one thing, the version should be -0ubuntu1.
[11:36] <Fujitsu> Not -1ubuntu1, as it's not in Debian yet.
[11:36] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, upstream can use the debian changelog too  ... but it should be -0ubuntu1
[11:36] <dholbach> sed -s 's/unstable/UNRELEASED/' debian/changelog    - probably
[11:36] <dholbach> :)
[11:36] <Fujitsu> dholbach, yeah.
[11:36] <Fujitsu> And drop the latest version to -0ubuntu1...
[11:37] <crimsun> TheMuso: in the future you might find the library-maintenance portion more manageable with dh_install and using *.install
[11:37] <imbrandon> unless like some upstreams use -N also then its say 0.4.4-2 becomes 0.4.4-2-0ubuntu1 right ?
[11:37] <imbrandon> crimsun, ^^
[11:37] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes.
[11:37] <Fujitsu> And do we really want:
[11:37] <Fujitsu> Conflicts: ntfs-3g (<=20070811-BETA-1)
[11:37] <Fujitsu> There?
[11:37] <crimsun> in that case you get Hobbsee and poke upstream til upstream makes the version sane
[11:37] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:38] <TheMuso> crimsun: The makefile for the source doesn't create symlinks, and does not have an install target.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> Because the version wasn't released, it seems a little odd to label it as a conflict.
[11:38] <crimsun> TheMuso: understood, just looking over debian/rules atm
[11:38] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:38] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea so like 20070920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1
[11:38] <imbrandon> ugh that ugly though
[11:38] <Fujitsu> Ah, so the 20070920-BETA-1 is upstream?
[11:39] <imbrandon> he is upstrream afaik
[11:39] <Fujitsu> Aha!
[11:39] <Fujitsu> Nice.
[11:40] <imbrandon> erm maybe not
[11:41] <imbrandon> wow ok looking at the upsream version numbers this package is actualy all wrong ( versioning wise ) ..... *looks*
[11:41] <givre> Fujitsu: conflicts was due to a change inthe packaging in 20070811-BETA-1, so it was important to put it for my repo
[11:41] <givre> imbrandon: i'm not upstream, but i'm in contact with
[11:42] <givre> Fujitsu: i think the best should be simply to do a new version with only the edgy version in changelog
[11:42] <Fujitsu> givre, yes, and eliminating the Conflict.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> And I don't see the point of README.Debian.
[11:43] <imbrandon> hrm looks like it needs to be ntfs-3g_2006.09.20-0ubuntu1
[11:43] <givre> Fujitsu: right i'll  do that
[11:43] <imbrandon> http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html going by upstream
[11:43] <Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrandon.
[11:43] <Fujitsu> So, to summarise ('cause I can't comment on REVU):
[11:43] <Fujitsu>  * Version number is wrong
[11:44] <Fujitsu>  * Changelog wants redoing
[11:44] <Fujitsu>  * Remove Conflicts from debian/control...
[11:44] <Fujitsu>  * README.Debian is a little pointless.
[11:44] <Fujitsu> I think that's about it.
[11:45] <imbrandon> yea if this package isnt native ( its not ) the cahngelog only needs to be "initial release "
[11:45] <imbrandon> changelog*
[11:45] <givre> imbrandon: the thing is upstream version is  ntfs-3g-20070920-BETA
[11:46] <Fujitsu> givre, will upstream every have a non-date-based release?
[11:46] <imbrandon> all of them are beta, they ahvent come out of that phase, they version by date ( your going off the tarbal name )
[11:46] <Fujitsu> *ever
[11:46] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, if they ever release a non-date-based one, 20070920 is going to be greater than it.
[11:47] <givre> Fujitsu: he want to change that in the future, but not yet
[11:47] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, they havent so far, but thats where epocs come in
[11:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, I've never looked into epochs myself.
[11:47] <Fujitsu> Any REVU admins around?
[11:48] <imbrandon> givre, btw that tarbal is misnumbered ( its not 2007 yet )
[11:48] <crimsun> Fujitsu: (perhaps siretart)
[11:48] <cbx33> Fujitsu: I could comment but I don;t have my login details
[11:48] <cbx33> not here anyway ;)
[11:48] <Fujitsu> siretart, ping.
[11:48] <Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrandon.
[11:48] <Fujitsu> Oops, crimsun.
[11:48] <imbrandon> fujitsu basicly the shor story is 1:1.0 > 20060927
[11:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, I realise.
[11:49] <Fujitsu> Otherwise there'd be no point to them :)
[11:49] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:50] <givre> imbrandon: i'm not sure but i think he made a mistake in the first release and don't want to change it back to not conflicts with older version
[11:50] <cbx33> Fujitsu: I can get my pass for REVU did you want me to add those comments
[11:50] <imbrandon> anyhow givre they misnumbers the tarbal and http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html on that page but the actualy program number is the date in 2006
[11:50] <Fujitsu> cbx33, don't bother, I've given them to givre here, so it's not important.
[11:50] <cbx33> ok np
[11:51] <imbrandon> i already did it cbx33
[11:51] <imbrandon> err Fujitsu
[11:52] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[11:52] <givre> imbrandon: so do you think i should name it 20070920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1 20060920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1 or 20060920-1-0ubuntu1
[11:52] <imbrandon> 2006.09.20-0ubuntu1
[11:53] <Plug> 1.0+20060920-0ubuntu1  ?
[11:53] <cbx33> imbrandon: is there a way we can change out REVU passwords?
[11:53] <Fujitsu> Plug, I think that might be better.
[11:53] <imbrandon> cbx33, no ;(
[11:53] <Fujitsu> At least, the dots in imbrandon's shouldn't be there.
[11:53] <imbrandon> Plug, no becouse it might not be released as 1.0
[11:53] <imbrandon> it might get released as 0.5
[11:53] <imbrandon> you have to follow upstream
[11:54] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, that's a good point.
[11:54] <Fujitsu> So 20060920-0ubuntu1
[11:54] <Plug> True, another number than 1.0 might also suffice then
[11:54] <imbrandon> why any at all, follow upstream IF they release a numbered version use an epoc , thats what they are made for
[11:54] <cbx33> now I am a MOTU, does this mean I can advocate pacakges?
[11:55] <Fujitsu> cbx33, once an admin enables it.
[11:55] <givre> imbrandon: so i have to follow upstream but correct his mistake ( wrong date) ?
[11:55] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, yeah.
[11:55] <Plug> if you can, look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3262 ;)
[11:55] <imbrandon> cbx33, if you have spoke to a revu admin yes ;)
[11:56] <crimsun> TheMuso: done, thanks.
[11:56] <imbrandon> Plug, yes i have it building now
[11:56] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thank you.
[11:56] <Plug> imbrandon: indeed - thank you - but I believe I need 2, and the more feedback the better!
[11:56] <imbrandon> givre, yea thats just a mistake in the TARBAL NAME, if you look at the actual release numbers on the downloads page and the changelog
[11:57] <imbrandon> thats what to go by
[11:57] <cbx33> imbrandon: so do you mean...for every package....once a REVU admin is happy then I can advocate...or just to tell a revu admin I am a motu now?
[11:57] <imbrandon> cbx33, the latter
[11:57] <givre> imbrandon: ok, thanks
[11:58] <imbrandon> once you have been "upgraded" on revu you can, its not automagic /yet/
[11:58] <cbx33> thanks imbrandon
[11:59] <Plug> Is Launchpad mooted to have revu-like capacity at any stage in the future?
[11:59] <imbrandon> someday ;)
[12:11] <xopher> How does apt handle version numbers, which is considered newer: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17_<IP_ADDRESS>-5 or ..5-5.1 ?
[12:11] <Plug> dpkg --compare-versions iirc
[12:11] <Plug> "man dpkg" tells you
[12:12] <xopher> ok, thanks
[12:12] <Plug> hmm, that tells you how to test, but doesn't say why
[12:12] <Hobbsee> what are the two version numbers?
[12:13] <xopher> 2.6.17-10-generic-<IP_ADDRESS>-5 and 2.6.17-10-generic-<IP_ADDRESS>-5.1
[12:13] <cbx33> imbrandon: for some reason I already have the advocate capability
[12:14] <Hobbsee> xopher: the latter is greater
[12:14] <imbrandon> xopher, " dpkg --compare-versions 2.6.17-10-generic-<IP_ADDRESS>-5 gt 2.6.17-10-generic-<IP_ADDRESS>-5.1 && echo yes "
[12:14] <xopher> allright, thanks
[12:15] <TheMuso> Wow. Another kernel.
[12:28] <Plug> imbrandon: thanks!
[12:30] <Fujitsu> motu: O
[12:30] <Fujitsu> *:O
[12:30] <siretart> Fujitsu: pong
[12:31] <Fujitsu> siretart, hi. I'm a MOTU now, can my REVU account please be modified to exhibit such capabilities?
[12:31] <Fujitsu><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:32] <StevenK> Fujitsu: When did you get MOTU?
[12:32] <Fujitsu> StevenK, this morning at about 6:20 :)
[12:32] <cbx33> siretart: mine too if you have time
[12:32] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Nice! Congrats.
[12:32] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[12:33] <siretart> Fujitsu: cbx33 congrats!
[12:33] <siretart> cbx33: your revu id?
[12:33] <Fujitsu> Thanks siretart :)
[12:33] <cbx33><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:33] <Fujitsu> True, with your uber-DD powers.
[12:34] <siretart> done (both)
[12:34] <Fujitsu> siretart, thanks :)
[12:34] <imbrandon> me 3
[12:34] <cbx33> thankx siretart
[12:34] <StevenK> siretart: I know a good plastic surgeon...
[12:34] <siretart> StevenK: oh. sounds promising
[12:34] <imbrandon> lol
[12:35] <Hobbsee> hmm?
[12:39] <givr1> imbrandon, Fujitsu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3263 ;)
[12:39] <Fujitsu> givr1, noted, I'm about to advocate.
[12:43] <Fujitsu> givr1, I hate to say it...
[12:43] <Fujitsu> But it looks fine!
[12:44] <givr1> Fujitsu: thanks
[12:44] <givr1> Fujitsu: why hate ?
[12:44] <Fujitsu> Who knows :P
[12:45] <Fujitsu> Advocated on REVU. Now you just need to find somebody else.
[12:46] <givr1> Fujitsu: ok, many thanks
[12:47] <Fujitsu> No problem :)
[12:47] <givr1> dholbach, imbrandon : ^^^  ;)
[12:48] <imbrandon> givr1, sorry was afk, looking now
[12:50] <Plug> Fujitsu: you can advocate now! Maaaaaaaaaaate! :)
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Plug, true. I'll have a look at -pptp.
[12:52] <Plug> cheers
[12:52] <imbrandon> givr1, uploaded
[12:52] <Plug> (cutting it rather fine!)   I'm off to bed
[12:55] <givr1> imbrandon, Fujitsu :great. Many thanks guys :)
[12:55] <Fujitsu> No problem, givr1. Thankyou for putting in the work to package it!
[12:56] <imbrandon> givr1, thanks for the package, ok i'm off to bed soon gnight fellas
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Goodnight, imbrandon.
[12:57] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, and btw , shiney new kernel just for you ( -10-generic )
[12:57] <imbrandon> heh
[12:57] <Fujitsu> :P
[12:57] <dholbach> imbrandon: rock on
[12:57] <dholbach> givr1: way to go!
[12:57] <imbrandon> hehe gnight dholbach
[12:58] <lastnode> can someone point me to the MOTU python packaging policy?
[12:59] <lastnode> (i've seen the deb py policy, i was wondering if MOTU has other requirements)
[12:59] <Fujitsu> lastnode, nope, just the Debian one.
[12:59] <lastnode> Fujitsu, thanks a lot.
[12:59] <Fujitsu> No problem.
[01:02] <lastnode> Fujitsu, just reading the policy doc here, and is it necessary to bytecompile py modules? or is that just an option?
[01:03] <lastnode> (using python-support/central)
[01:03] <Fujitsu> lastnode, I believe it's optional, but I couldn't be sure.
[01:06] <lastnode> ok, much thanks again, Fujitsu
[01:18] <phanatic> good afternoon
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Hi phanatic.
[01:18] <phanatic> hey Fujitsu
[01:19] <phanatic> Fujitsu: congrats for -dev ;)
[01:19] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[01:34] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian
[01:35] <bddebian> Heya Mr. MOTU :-)
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Heya Mr. Hon. God :-)
[01:37] <bddebian> Hon?
[01:37] <Fujitsu> Honourable.
[01:37] <bddebian> Ahh :-)
[01:51] <\sh> moins
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Hey \sh.
[01:52] <Hobbsee> hey \sh
[01:53] <bddebian> Hi \sh
[01:56] <Riddell> \sh: have you heard from amu at all recently?
[01:57] <\sh> Riddell: he is behind me
[01:57] <Riddell> oh, cool :)
[01:57] <\sh> I told him to come
[01:58] <Riddell> \sh: can you ask him if he got my e-mail, I'd like to sort out the issue with his shop before someone gets upset
[01:59] <\sh> done...he will connect in a few
[01:59] <\sh> hey ogra
[02:00] <\sh> did I already say that I dislike SLES10?
[02:00] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:03] <dholbach> any other good candidates for getting uploaded?
[02:03] <dholbach> I added some comments to gnomescan yesterday
[02:03] <dholbach> some of them should be easy to fix
[02:05] <cbx33> dholbach: thanks for the comments on grasynco
[02:05] <cbx33> I'll get that fixed up for edgy + 1
[02:05] <dholbach> can't we get that fixed for edgy? :)
[02:05] <cbx33> not much point really
[02:05] <cbx33> or
[02:05] <cbx33> hmm no
[02:06] <dholbach> ok
[02:06] <cbx33> because it would need to update the latest edgy +1 cd isos
[02:06] <ogra> dholbach, its a tool to download milestone releases :)
[02:06] <dholbach> and i looked at firefox-launchpad-ingetragion
[02:06] <dholbach> or whatever it was called
[02:06] <dholbach> it'd be nice to get it renamed, to not clash with LPI
[02:06] <dholbach> but apart from that it was good to go
[02:06] <dholbach> ok
[02:06] <ogra> dholbach, not much point fixing it one day before beta i guess :)
[02:07] <dholbach> edgy users could download edgy+1 isos
[02:07] <dholbach> bye Fujitsu
[02:07] <cbx33> hmmm true
[02:07] <Fujitsu> See ya, dholbach
[02:07] <cbx33> but we don;t know what format the edgy + 1 archive will take
[02:07] <cbx33> could be some name changes
[02:10] <lionelp> dholbach: I renamed my firefox-launchpad-integration
[02:11] <dholbach> lionelp: ROCK ON
[02:11] <dholbach> lionelp: will look into getting it uploaded later
[02:11] <dholbach> i'll be out for lunch now
[02:11] <dholbach> but the packaging looked good
[02:11] <lionelp> np
[02:11] <dholbach> so bribe somebody else into lookint at it in the meantime ;-)
[02:11] <dholbach> see you later!
[02:11] <lionelp> thanks
[02:11] <dholbach> anytime
[02:12] <lionelp> somone to have a look on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3254 ? (firefox-launchpad-plugin)
[02:14] <lionelp> bddebian ?
[02:22] <pygi> lionelp: is this some kind of firefox plugin?
[02:22] <lionelp> yes
[02:22] <lionelp> it adds in quick search fields search on launchpad
[02:22] <lionelp> this is not an extension (in Firefox words)
[02:23] <pygi> hm, perhaps you should note the depend on firefox by version because firefox sometimes breaks compatibility?
[02:23] <pygi> ah
[02:23] <pygi> lionelp: thought it was regular extension, sorry
[02:24] <pygi> homepage seems non-reachable :P
[02:24] <lionelp> It is a blank page
[02:24] <lionelp> I have to change it (my own website)
[02:25] <lionelp> I'll do it :)
[02:25] <pygi> seems nice otherwise :)
[02:25] <lionelp> cool :)
[02:26] <pygi> at least by quick looking over it :p
[02:28] <lastnode> im trying to wrap my head around packaging. if im packaging an app that uses an interpreted language like python, i dont need /debian/rules do i?
[02:30] <Adri2000> how debdiff should be named ?
[02:31] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: doesnt matter
[02:31] <Adri2000> ok
[02:32] <Adri2000> Hobbsee: W: gtodo source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
[02:32] <Adri2000> W: gtodo source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.14+cvs20050820-2ubuntu1
[02:32] <Adri2000> can i ignore or not ?
[02:32] <ogra> you can
[02:32] <Hobbsee> you can ignore both of those warnings - they're debian specific
[02:32] <ogra> ubuntu has no NMUs
[02:33] <ogra> gah
[02:33] <ogra> evil you
[02:33] <ogra> :)
[02:33] <Hobbsee> ogra: muhahahha.  that's definetly me.
[02:34] <sivang> lastnode: you do need one. all packages require this file.
[02:35] <lastnode> sivang, ok, thanks
[02:36] <Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/gtodo_0.14+cvs20050820-2ubuntu1.debdiff < does it look good?
[02:36] <Adri2000> i don't know where these two lines come from:
[02:36] <Adri2000> only in patch2:
[02:36] <Adri2000> unchanged:
[02:37] <ajmitch> evening all
[02:39] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:39] <crimsun> hah. Just converted this Java assignment to both Python /and/ Ruby.
[02:39] <ajmitch> well done crimsun
[02:43] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[02:43] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[02:45] <Adri2000> can someone check my debdiff please?
[02:51] <seaLne> can someone remind me how to do a sync request?
[02:52] <Adri2000> report a bug
[02:53] <Hobbsee> seaLne: use the request sync script on DeveloperResources
[02:54] <Adri2000> but universe freeze is tomorrow
[02:55] <pygi> Hobbsee: well, after tommorow, you'll need Universe exception I take it
[02:56] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[02:56] <StevenK> Correct.
[02:59] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: afaik they'll try & clear backlog of syncs that were filed beforehand
[02:59] <ajmitch> going from what happened with dapper
[03:00] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh good
[03:00] <ajmitch> if not, you'll find out :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:04] <Hobbsee> then i'll whinge
[03:10] <seaLne> Hobbsee: the script dosen't try to use your local mailserver which seems strange and breaks therefore for me
[03:10] <Hobbsee> seaLne: the new one uses the ubuntu default one, yes.
[03:10] <Hobbsee> seaLne: you can change it though
[03:10] <Hobbsee> or just do it manually
[03:11] <seaLne> just send a mail with that content?
[03:14] <seaLne> does a motu need to confirm it?
[03:14] <seaLne> Bug #62615
[03:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62615 in sleuthkit "Please sync sleuthkit (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62615
[03:16] <seaLne> it builds fine
[03:22] <Tonio_> Hobbsee, seaLne, fancy revuing this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3264 ?
[03:25] <lupine_85> ooooooh does that work? ;)
[03:25] <ajmitch> no way I'm reviewing anything right now, it's way past my bedtime :)
[03:26] <lupine_85> hehe
[03:26] <lupine_85> it's half 2 in the afternoon here
[03:27] <lupine_85> so... the magical incantation: "fancy revuing this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3211 ?" ;)
[03:28] <seaLne> Hobbsee: *?
[03:28] <pygi> seaLne: ah, nothing, in the description :)
[03:29] <Hobbsee> seaLne: yes
[03:29] <seaLne> where?
[03:29] <pygi> Tonio_: you have probably un-needed "*"  in description in debian/control :)
[03:29] <seaLne> oh found it
[03:29] <pygi> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/knetstats-0609270920/knetstats-1.6/debian/control
[03:30] <seaLne> Hobbsee: do sync requests need a motu ack?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> seaLne: yep
[03:30] <pygi> seaLne: two acks I take it
[03:30] <Hobbsee> no, just one
[03:30] <pygi> Hobbsee: ok, oki :P
[03:30] <Hobbsee> and to follow the policy
[03:30] <Tonio_> pygi: humyeah true, I'll change before upload
[03:30] <dholbach> how's the REVUing going?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> posted on ubuntu-devel-announce
[03:30] <seaLne> Hobbsee: fancy looking at Bug #62615 ?
[03:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62615 in sleuthkit "Please sync sleuthkit (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62615
[03:30] <pygi> Tonio_: otherwise seems fine for me (Disclaimer: I'm NOT motu)
[03:31] <Tonio_> pygi: thanks
[03:31] <seaLne> pbuilding knetstats just now
[03:31] <Hobbsee> seaLne: builds and installs fine?
[03:31] <seaLne> yep
[03:31] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: looks good to me too, apart from the aforementioned star.
[03:31] <pygi> Tonio_: the "." should probably be at the end of sentence, and not in new line also :P
[03:32] <seaLne> that is a formating thing for control files
[03:32] <pygi> ergh,right
[03:32] <pygi> sorry :)
[03:32] <Tonio_> Hobbsee great, can you comment on revu ? I'll fix the start before upload
[03:32] <pygi> me has some problems with his system :(
[03:32] <Hobbsee> seaLne: done
[03:33] <pygi> Tonio_: just ignoreme :)
[03:33] <seaLne> ta
[03:34] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: done
[03:34] <Tonio_> pygi: hehe :)
[03:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee thanks, I'm just waiting for sealne
[03:34] <seaLne> i'm not a motu
[03:34] <Tonio_> argh....
[03:34] <Tonio_> okay
[03:35] <seaLne> sorry
[03:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:37] <seaLne> but i can confirm it works well for me
[03:37] <Tonio_> Hobbsee just reuploaded so that you can advocate
[03:38] <lupine_85> *ooooh a bug in rutilt
[03:38] <seaLne> i wonder how it decides what bw is the top of the applet
[03:38] <Adri2000> Hobbsee: can you look at bug #48628 and see if the debdiff is good
[03:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48628 in gtodo "gtodo.desktop: Missing Encoding Directive" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48628
[03:40] <Hobbsee> er, you've just moved the encoding bit up?
[03:40] <Adri2000> yep :p
[03:41] <Adri2000> not really difficult to did but it fixes the problem
[03:42] <Hobbsee> hmmm okay
[03:45] <Adri2000> you can pbuild it to check, it is not very long to build
[03:45] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: just waiting for a "yes" ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3264
[03:45] <Adri2000> Hobbsee: then is it ok to upload?
[03:46] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: done :)
[03:46] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i just refreshed it
[03:46] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: poke Tonio_, i'm not uploading at this time of night :P
[03:46] <Hobbsee> unless i absolutely have to
[03:48] <Adri2000> Hobbsee: heh :p i didn't realized, it's afternoon here
[03:49] <Adri2000> Tonio_: ? ;-)
[03:49] <Hobbsee> oh gosh, i love bugs like this.  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62618
[03:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62618 in kdeartwork "edgy default purple color ugly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:49] <pygi> Hobbsee: lol
[03:50] <Hobbsee> a) it's in the wrong package.  b) it's a design issue, not everyone likes everything c)  it's very easy for the user to change d)  see point b)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> can someone else reject that?
[03:50] <lupine_85> purple ++ ;
[03:50] <lupine_85> * ;)
[03:52] <Hobbsee> exactly :)
[03:53] <lupine_85> brown -- though
[03:54] <\sh> Hobbsee: why don't you reject it?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> \sh: i did.  i was trying to think of a way to do it diplomatically
[03:54] <Tonio_> Adri2000: yep ?
[03:55] <lupine_85> oh, my. revu + F5 is bad
[03:55] <Adri2000> Tonio_: bug 48628, look at the debdiff i posted, if it's ok for you, can you upload ?
[03:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48628 in gtodo "gtodo.desktop: Missing Encoding Directive" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48628
[03:56] <Tonio_> Adri2000: yep, look okay, but I will not upload for dapper, only edgy.
[03:56] <Tonio_> Adri2000: I'm building and if it is ok, uploading
[03:57] <Adri2000> ok
[04:00] <Tonio_> Adri2000: you should ping the debian maintainer to add the patch, since this package is synced
[04:01] <Adri2000> Tonio_: ok, i will email him
[04:03] <Adri2000> Tonio_: hum are you sure the problem occurs also in debian? because the adding of "X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gtodo" seems ubuntu specific
[04:03] <Tonio_> hum indeed :)
[04:08] <Tonio_> Adri2000: uploaded
[04:09] <Adri2000> :-) thank you
[04:09] <Tonio_> Adri2000: de rien :)
[04:10] <Adri2000> ah ! franais ;)
[04:14] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: you like stupid bugs ?
[04:14] <Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/62291
[04:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62291 in kdebase "Image from removable device set as background not kept" [Unknown,Confirmed]
[04:15] <Tonio_> this one is *very* stupid too :)
[04:15] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ooh, lovely.  i vaguely remember seeing that.  we really do need a response for "your bug is stupid.  try "no"." - but i havent seen one that's diplomatic
[04:18] <lupine_85> oooh, I don't know.
[04:19] <lupine_85> suppose <someone> could add a dialogue box that asks them if they want to copy to ~ if the path is /media
[04:19] <seaLne> maybe we should have a special list of bugs that we keep for when we are in a bad mood to answer :)
[04:19] <lupine_85> but yeah, a bit silly ;)
[04:20] <Hobbsee> seaLne: the list would get far too long.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> seaLne: and my patience isnt that good.
[04:23] <fbond> anyone know:
[04:23] <fbond> using cdbs-edit-patch, whitespace in my debian/rules file is causing diff command to fail
[04:23] <seaLne> anyone fancy looking at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3268 ? i'm not sure about the last thing in lintian
[04:23] <fbond> I can remove whitespace: DEB_TAR_SRCDIR := snd-8    =>    DEB_TAR_SRCDIR :=snd-8
[04:23] <fbond> But it seems like the situation shouldn't be that fragile?
[04:23] <fbond> Is this a bug in cdbs-edit-patch?
[04:24] <fbond> Or a bug in (gasp) make ?
[04:24] <lfittl> seaLne: sleuthkit should be in Build-Depends-Indep
[04:25] <seaLne> lfittl: with the others as is?
[04:26] <lfittl> yep, although I am not completly sure about dpatch
[04:26] <seaLne> lfittl: actually can yu clarify what you just said as i misread it and now it dosen't make sense to me, did you mean the other way round?
[04:26] <lfittl> sure :)
[04:26] <seaLne> Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>> 5.0.0), dpatch
[04:26] <seaLne> Build-Depends: sleuthkit
[04:26] <seaLne> ?
[04:26] <lfittl> exactly
[04:27] <lfittl> argh
[04:27] <lfittl> no
[04:27] <lfittl> swap Build-Depends-Indep and Build-Depends ;)
[04:27] <seaLne> then it complains with a different error
[04:27] <lfittl> hrmm
[04:27] <seaLne> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/autopsy-0609271015/lintian
[04:28] <lfittl> mom, will take a closer look at it
[04:31] <lfittl> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 5.0.0), dpatch
[04:31] <lfittl> Build-Depends-Indep: sleuthkit
[04:32] <lfittl> seaLne: ^
[04:32] <lfittl> works for me
[04:41] <seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3271
[04:41] <seaLne> lintian still seems unhapy
[04:42] <lfittl> seaLne: because you have dpatch and debhelper in build-depends-indep, they should be in build-depends and sleuthkit should be in build-depends-indep
[04:42] <Adri2000> Tonio_: the new release should appear in launchpad first ?
[04:42] <seaLne> lfittl: arrrggggg :)
[04:43] <Tonio_> Adri2000: yeah, you should see the source package before it gets built
[04:44] <Adri2000> ok
[04:46] <seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3272
[04:47] <lfittl> :)
[04:48] <lfittl> seaLne: you should also mention that change in debian/changelog
[04:56] <seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3273
[05:03] <lfittl> seaLne: looks good, will upload in ~ 10 min
[05:05] <seaLne> lfittl: thanks for your help
[05:05] <lfittl> no problem ;)
[05:08] <lfittl> seaLne: uploaded
[05:32] <lionelp> lfittl: could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3254 ?
[05:33] <lfittl> lionelp: sure
[05:33] <lionelp> thanks :)
[05:36] <lfittl> lionelp: why are you removing *.old and debootstrap-dir on clean?
[05:38] <lionelp> lfittl: should be the result of a copy-paste
[05:38] <lionelp> it is useless, that's true
[05:38] <lfittl> ah, ok, removing the useless stuff from debian/rules is still nice ;)
[05:39] <lfittl> also, .PHONY lists the checkroot target, which doesn't exist, and the build-stamp target is not creating the file build-stamp
[05:40] <lfittl> and build should not depend on install, instead binary-indep should depend on build and install
[05:43] <lionelp> lfittl: ok, modified
[05:43] <lfittl> :)
[05:43] <lionelp> What the .PHONY line used for ?
[05:46] <lfittl> normally each target is used to create the file that corresponds to its name, .PHONY says that all the targets it depends on have nothing to do with files
[05:47] <lionelp> Oki, thansk !
[05:47] <lfittl> -> http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Phony-Targets.html for further information ;)
[05:47] <lionelp> lfittl: something to add before I upload it again ?
[05:48] <lfittl> no looks good, but haven't tested it yet, will do a quick build + test
[05:51] <dholbach> lionelp, lfittl: I'll give my ok later on, after a quick walk
[05:51] <dholbach> bbl
[05:52] <lfittl> lionelp: one last thing, maybe Section: web fits better than base
[05:52] <lionelp> lfittl: changed :)
[05:52] <lfittl> :)
[05:58] <lfittl> lionelp: works, and is useful too, nice work
[05:58] <lionelp> lfittl: thanks, but it was not a lot of work :)
[05:59] <lfittl> yet another thing I just saw, the description has a Homepage listed, but the page seems to be empty
[06:00] <lionelp> lfittl: yes, this is my homepage, I will add something ASAP
[06:00] <lionelp> at least a link to the sources
[06:00] <lfittl> ah, ok
[06:00] <lionelp> or you prefer I delete it ?
[06:01] <lfittl> no, if you add something soon its no problem
[06:03] <lionelp> Ok, uploading with your remarks
[06:06] <lionelp> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3274
[06:10] <lfittl> lionelp: build-stamp should not be in .PHONY, debootstrap-dir shouldn't be removed on clean and install target should depend on build, sry to be so picky, but getting debian/rules right is always a good thing to have
[06:11] <lfittl> *install should depend on build instead of build-stamp
[06:12] <lfittl> but after fixing these little things, it is ready to be uploaded :)
[06:12] <lionelp> lfittl: no pb for beeing so picky, it like that I will learn !
[06:13] <lfittl> good
[06:16] <lionelp> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3275
[06:19] <lfittl> lionelp: uploaded :)
[06:20] <lionelp> \o/
[06:20] <lionelp> thank you very much lfittl
[06:20] <lfittl> no problem
[06:20] <lfittl> anybody else in need of a package review?
[06:20] <sivang> lionelp: going to install this once it built
[06:21] <superm1> yes
[06:21] <superm1> i uploaded backstep last night
[06:21] <superm1> and looking for revu
[06:21] <lionelp> sivang: cool :)
[06:22] <lfittl> superm1: will take a look
[06:22] <lupine_85> lfittl: me :)
[06:22] <superm1> Thx.
[06:22] <mario_> superm1: I can help you with looking over package, link pls?
[06:22] <mario_> sivang: how goes db2? :)
[06:22] <lfittl> lupine_85: revu link?
[06:22] <superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3258
[06:23] <lupine_85> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3266
[06:24] <lfittl> lupine_85: will review it after being finished with backstep
[06:24] <lupine_85> ok :)
[06:24] <lupine_85> my first package btw so be gentle ;)
[06:24] <sivang> mario_: not using your nick anymore? :)
[06:24] <mario_> sivang: I'm getting dc'ed every several seconds due to this damn adsl connection!!!
[06:25] <sivang> mario_: I see
[06:25] <mario_> sivang: so no point in killing ghosts :)
[06:26] <sivang> mario_: right.
[06:26] <mario_> I know it'll be good :)
[06:27] <lfittl> superm1: debian/dirs is not needed, as the directories should be created by $(MAKE) install
[06:27] <superm1> k
[06:28] <lfittl> superm1: newest standards version is 3.7.2, and if you don't intend to backport the package to dapper, you should use debhelper level 5
[06:29] <pygi> when is universe freeze exactly?
[06:29] <lfittl> tomorrow, approx. at 1400 UTC
[06:30] <superm1> okay.  i can take care of those things then
[06:30] <superm1> anything else?
[06:30] <lfittl> not finished yet ;)
[06:30] <superm1> :)
[06:35] <lfittl> superm1: please include the full license header that is written in the header files in debian/copyright, also you should mention the Copyright
[06:35] <lfittl> s/header files/source files/
[06:36] <superm1> so i should just copy it verbatim from the license shipped with the package then?
[06:36] <lfittl> if all files have the same license, just copy the license header from one of them, for example src/daemon.c
[06:37] <superm1> Ok. Yes, they should all be under GPLv2
[06:37] <lfittl> just format it a little bit nicer, e.g. remove the * comment markes at the beginning, but keep the text
[06:37] <lfittl> why?
[06:37] <lfittl> the source files seem to mention gplv2 and later
[06:38] <superm1> oh, and later?
[06:38] <superm1> i'll have to double check then
[06:38] <lfittl> yep, debian/copyright is important, there should be no errors there
[06:44] <dholbach> lionelp: congratulations on firefox-launchpad!
[06:44] <dholbach> lfittl: thanks
[06:44] <superm1> using "head -n 7 *.c | more", it looks like the headers for all the source files are identical.  I'll just copy one of them then.
[06:45] <lfittl> dholbach: no problem, getting at least those who are interested in their packages done before UniverseFreeze seems important to me
[06:45] <dholbach> to me too
[06:46] <lfittl> fine, then you can continue with reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3266 :P
[06:47] <lfittl> mmh, if only my own todo list before freeze would be shorter (ogre update, glest upload, and some debian syncs)
[06:47] <dholbach> glest!
[06:47] <dholbach> gelst!
[06:47] <dholbach> glest!
[06:47] <lfittl> heh
[06:47] <dholbach> we sitll have time for syncs
[06:47] <lfittl> really? :=
[06:47] <lfittl> :)
[06:47] <dholbach> we can consider uvf exceptions for those
[06:47] <dholbach> sure
[06:47] <dholbach> that depends of course, but still
[06:48] <lupine_85> hehe, 3266 is tiny :)
[06:48] <lfittl> glest is easy, the debian pkg-games team has finished the work started on REVU, so it was just a matter of fixing a little automake problem, now I just have to do a quick test build ;)
[06:48] <dholbach> that's cool
[06:48] <dholbach> glest-data is already approved
[06:49] <lfittl> yep, I know
[06:49] <dholbach> rock and roll
[06:49] <lfittl> but first, 2 package reviews, then glest ;)
[06:51] <bddebian> w00t, we are going to get glest?
[06:51] <dholbach> join the REVU crew ;)
[06:51] <LaserJock> what the heck is glest?
[06:51] <bddebian> A game
[06:51] <LaserJock> doh
[06:51] <bddebian> dholbach: Right, I haven't done anything for REVU..
[06:52] <dholbach> bddebian: kidding :)
[06:52] <lfittl> :)
[06:52] <bddebian> :-)
[06:52] <bddebian> Though my RL work is kicking my arse so I am behind :'-(
[06:53] <LaserJock> bah, forget about RL, Ubuntu is all that matters ;-)
[06:53] <lionelp> thanks dholbach, and thanks for your help
[06:53] <dholbach> lionelp: not to worry
[06:53] <dholbach> lionelp: i enjoyed it :)
[06:56] <lfittl> superm1: how did you create the orig.tar.gz? (as upstream only provides .tar.bz2)
[06:56] <superm1> extracted it, and recompressed it
[06:56] <superm1> as tar.gz
[06:57] <lfittl> run bunzip2, then gzip -9, don't extract it and recompress
[06:57] <superm1> wasn't really sure what to do in cases that tar.gz wasnt avail
[06:57] <lfittl> if its a tar.bz2 simply decompress it, and recompress the tarball
[06:58] <lfittl> in case of a zip you would have to completely extract it
[06:58] <superm1> ok
[06:59] <lfittl> superm1: if you fix all the things mentioned, well done, and it also works here :)
[07:00] <lionelp> dholbach: me to :)
[07:00] <superm1> Ok, i'll have it up in a little bit
[07:00] <dholbach> lfittl: commented on rutilt
[07:00] <lfittl> k, just tell me when it is ready ;)
[07:00] <lionelp> does someone with an AMD64 could do a build test for me ?
[07:00] <lionelp> on this : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3207
[07:01] <superm1> I can do it for u after I fix up backstep and upload it if you'd like
[07:01] <lfittl> dholbach: ah, good, now I can work on glest, as you already did the first step :)
[07:01] <lfittl> * with reviewing rutilt
[07:03] <dholbach> tsssssss :)
[07:03] <dholbach> lfittl: thanks Mr. Manager
[07:03] <lupine_85> ah, ok :)
[07:03] <dholbach> lfittl: we needed a new MOTU Manager for ages
[07:03] <dholbach> lfittl: thanks for taking up the challenge
[07:03] <lfittl> hehe
[07:03] <lupine_85> apart from that, seems simple enough :)
[07:04] <lfittl> dholbach: a new one? who was the old one?
[07:04] <lupine_85> thanks - I'll get it done ASAP
[07:04] <dholbach> good question :)
[07:04] <lfittl> :)
[07:04] <lfittl> MOTU manages itself, there is no need for a single manager ;)
[07:05] <pygi> dholbach: have a sec for me?
[07:05] <dholbach> pygi: fire away
[07:05] <lionelp> lupine_85: are you talking to me?
[07:06] <pygi> dholbach: when exactly tommorow is freeze? I need to get at least one package done (and possibly 6 more if I can get sources in time)
[07:06] <lupine_85> to dholbach :)
[07:06] <dholbach> pygi: dunno yet
[07:06] <lfittl> pygi: somewhere I heard 1400 UTC
[07:06] <pygi> dholbach: aha, oki
[07:06] <dholbach> lupine_85: dpatch is what you probably want
[07:06] <pygi> thank lfittl
[07:07] <lupine_85> ok
[07:07] <lionelp> dholbach: could you do another build test on your AMD64 for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3207 when you have a little time ?
[07:08] <superm1> lonelp i just kicked it off on mine
[07:08] <superm1> it built fine
[07:09] <lionelp> superm1: great !
[07:09] <dholbach> lionelp: sure
[07:09] <superm1> only one thing didnt look so good, but its not amd64 specific
[07:09] <superm1> docbook2x-man debian/nagcon.1.docbook
[07:09] <superm1> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd
[07:11] <superm1> lfittl, uploaded the changed package.  it juts upadted on the revu page, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3276
[07:12] <dholbach> lionelp: builds nicely - doing a review of the rest
[07:13] <lionelp> dholbach: cool
[07:15] <lfittl> superm1: just noticed, the version number is wrong, 0.3-0ubuntu1 is the correct one
[07:15] <superm1> oh even though its not coming from debian upstream?
[07:15] <dholbach> lionelp: looks SUPER
[07:16] <dholbach> if somebody wants to pick up nagcon - go!
[07:16] <lionelp> thanks again dholbach!
[07:16] <dholbach> lionelp: anytime
[07:16] <lfittl> superm1: we need ubuntu versioning so that debian people can package it too, and their package can update ours, that would be impossible if both Debian and Ubuntu would use 0.3-1
[07:16] <superm1> ah makes sense
[07:17] <superm1> should i reupload with that version number then, or can you make that minor change when commiting it?
[07:17] <dholbach> lfittl: i'll upload gmult and change dapper -> edgy myself
[07:18] <lfittl> dholbach: k, same thing with cdpr, will update the standards version and upload ;)
[07:19] <dholbach> lfittl: ROCK
[07:19] <dholbach> i'll just do a quick edgy testbuild
[07:20] <lionelp> lfittl: you will have time to review nagcon ?
[07:20] <lfittl> lionelp: maybe later, have to do some own packaging work before the freeze ;)
[07:21] <lionelp> lfittl: sure !
[07:26] <dholbach> gmult uploaded
[07:29] <lupine_85> hmmm....
[07:30] <lupine_85> how does one use dpatch to modify a file, when both the original file and the patch to be applied changes every build?!
[07:31] <lupine_85> no wait, the target (how I want the file to look) is always the same...
[07:37] <lupine_85> question - can I use debian/rules to edit debian/patches/blah ?
[07:46] <dholbach> lupine_85: just add the dpatch runes to debian/rules (explained in /usr/share/doc/dpatch), then run   dpatch-edit-patch 01-my-patch-that-fixes-the-world
[07:46] <dholbach> then do your changes (in a subshell)
[07:46] <dholbach> then hit ctrl-d
[07:46] <dholbach> then add the patch name to debian/patches/00list
[07:47] <dholbach> done
[07:47] <dholbach> :)
[07:47] <lupine_85> but the file to be patched changes every build
[07:47] <LaserJock> how is the file generated
[07:47] <lupine_85> by the configure.sh script
[07:48] <LaserJock> out of nothing or from a .in file?
[07:48] <lupine_85> out of nothing
[07:48] <lupine_85> it just uses echo
[07:48] <lupine_85> I was using sed to edit the generated file directly; I was considering pointing it at the patch file
[07:48] <lupine_85> don't know if that'd be "allowed" though (seems a bit pointless ;) )
[07:49] <lupine_85> the file gets removed every make clean
[07:51] <LaserJock> why not patch the configure.sh to make the file you want?
[07:53] <lupine_85> hmm...
[07:53] <lupine_85> that could work :)
[07:53] <dholbach> wb hub
[08:01] <lfittl> superm1: sry, totally forgot to answer you, yes please upload again with the correct version
[08:04] <lfittl> superm1: another thing, Depends: libgtk2.0-0 is not necessary, $(shlibs:Depends) automatically inserts it
[08:21] <azeem> LaserJock: hey
[08:22] <azeem> LaserJock: do you have an edgy desktop?  Can you tell me whether xmakemol still works fine?
[08:22] <azeem> LaserJock: also, I tried to quickly have a look at the bkchem python stuff last night but failed
[08:22] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:22] <LaserJock> doh
[08:22] <LaserJock> I didn't
[08:26] <LaserJock> azeem: xmakemol looks fine to me
[08:26] <LaserJock> I loaded a .xyz and moved it around
[08:27] <azeem> great
[08:27] <azeem> cause the current Debian version FTBFS
[08:27] <LaserJock> bummer
[08:28] <azeem> well, we could merge the dapper Ubuntu changes I guess
[08:28] <azeem> Ubuntu doesn't support OpenGL'd motif/lesstif
[08:56] <superm1> lfittl, Sorry, stepped out of the office.  I fixed the version and changed that dependency, and re-uploaded. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3279
[08:57] <superm1> LaserJock, do you know if anyone else got a chance to look at mythplugins this morning after brandon did?
[08:58] <LaserJock> nope, sorry
[08:58] <superm1> do u remember who he had asked?  I don't have my log from last night on me
[09:00] <gnomefreak> is there any plan to include the new beta nvidia drivers in edgy or sticking with the version thats there?
[09:03] <LaserJock> superm1: it was ajmitch I believe
[09:04] <superm1> Ah okay.  I'll watch for when ajmitch unidles then and ask him.
[09:04] <superm1> Thanks.
[09:26] <lfittl> I need someone to test glest packages (3d accel is not working for me atm): http://www.ixios-software.com/~lfittl/ubuntu/glest/ / http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3278
[09:29] <Lutin> Hi
[09:31] <Lutin> please, how can I write a debian/control file that allows two pacakges to remove each other ?
[09:31] <LaserJock> Lutin: how do you mean?
[09:33] <Lutin> LaserJock, having foo1 and foo2 removing each other. installing foo1 removes foo2, and install foo2 removes foo1
[09:33] <Lutin> how can I do that
[09:33] <LaserJock> Conflicts:
[09:33] <LaserJock> or Replaces: perhaps
[09:33] <LaserJock> check the Debian Policy
[09:34] <Lutin> ok
[09:34] <LaserJock> Lutin: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
[09:34] <Lutin> LaserJock, thanks
[09:46] <phanatic> anybody having time for a quick check? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3281 (just a new upstream version)
[09:53] <ajmitch> morning
[09:53] <lionelp> morning ajmitch
[10:04] <superm1> lfittl, thanks for the advocating.  Just need one more MOTU to approve and its in right?
[10:04] <superm1> ajmitch, did you get a chance to look at mythplugins after imbrandon did?
[10:04] <ajmitch> no, was I expected to?
[10:05] <superm1> I thought he had asked you if you could at some point...could have been someone else last night.
[10:05] <superm1> i dont have the log with me here
[10:06] <ajmitch> right, he did ask me, and I ended up being very busy again :)
[10:06] <superm1> hehe
[10:06] <superm1> well if you get a chance at some point today, can you take a look then?
[10:07] <ajmitch> um
[10:07] <ajmitch> that could be a challenge to find time
[10:08] <superm1> Ok.  Well I'll keep an eye out for another free MOTU then.
[10:08] <ajmitch> ok, sorry about that
[10:08] <superm1> Not a big deal, just trying to beat the UVF and have time to fix anything wrong before that :)
[10:19] <lionelp> ping Toadstool
[10:21] <Toadstool> lionelp: quick pong, I am working
[10:21] <lionelp> arf, I was looking for a MOTU to review my package...
[10:21] <lionelp> no time now ?
[10:21] <Toadstool> not for a review, sorry
[10:22] <Bazzi> lionelp: try cbx33 he's motu since today
[10:22] <phanatic> Toadstool: for an upload maybe? :)
[10:22] <Toadstool> :)
[10:22] <lionelp> yeah, thanks Bazzi !
[10:22] <cbx33> sorry I can't uplaod yet
[10:22] <lionelp> ping cbx33
[10:22] <Bazzi> heh
[10:22] <lionelp> arf :)
[10:22] <cbx33> my key needs to be signed ;)
[10:22] <Toadstool> phanatic: I don't upload without reviewing and pdebuilding :p
[10:23] <cbx33> phanatic, neither do I
[10:23] <superm1> cbx33, would you be able to at least do a revu, and let another MOTU revu and upload later?