[01:07] <BUGabundo> o/ uh uh
[11:41] <dupondje> can somebody open http://www.vacature.com/carriere/3225-euro-bruto-als-wetenschappelijk-medewerker-bij-kuleuven?utm_source=hln&utm_medium=partnersite&utm_campaign=hlncontent&utm_content=rechts ?
[11:41] <dupondje> crashes instantly here :(
[13:59] <jdstrand> fta: argh, maverick ftbfs/armel only just now started building (the first buildd might have died to have it autostart-- this happeneded with other builds lately)
[14:00] <jdstrand> fta: I am publishing anyway and will upload a .2 for maverick for armel
[14:24] <jdstrand> fta: ok, all tested and published
[14:25] <jdstrand> fta: I uploaded a .2 to the security-proposed ppa for armel, which I'll test and publish later-- probably monday


[00:10] <npm> any suggestions on getting my kup & bup based backup on kubuntu working again. I get this error from "bup index" --"File "/usr/lib/bup/cmd/../bup/hlinkdb.py", line 10, in pickle_load return pickle.load(f, encoding='bytes')" .... "_pickle.UnpicklingError: pickle data was truncated"
[00:30] <npm> why do my updates now say "The following security updates require Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps' enabled: libzmq5 python2.7-minimal libmagickwand-6.q16-6 python2.7 imagemagick-6.q16hdri libmagickcore-6.q16hdri-6-extra libmagickcore-6.q16hdri-6 libmagickwand-6.q16hdri-6 libopenexr24 libsdl2-2.0-0 libmysofa1 libmagickcore-6.q16-6 libpython2.7-minimal libpython2.7-stdlib imagemagick-6-common"
[00:31] <npm> how come these updates aren't part of regular ubuntu?
[00:43] <tomreyn> npm: which kubuntu release is this?
[00:45] <shadowhawk> hello!
[00:45] <shadowhawk> I am trying to get COMPIZ to work. Wobbly windows. I applied the settings but now I cant MOVE the windows or ressize htem
[00:45] <shadowhawk> them*
[00:49] <tomreyn> i don't think compiz is meant to work with the kde / plasma / qt world - but could be wrong
[00:51] <user|60> czesc
[00:51] <user|60> pleaase help me
[00:51] <tomreyn> hi user|60, please ask your kubuntu support question
[00:51] <user|60> ok
[00:52] <user|60> i would like to install linux on my laptop
[00:53] <tomreyn> have you decided on a distribution, yet?
[00:53] <tomreyn> this channel is just about the kubuntu linux distribution
[00:53] <user|60> write now i have debian distro
[00:54] <tomreyn> i think you mean "right now"
[00:54] <user|60> yes
[00:54] <user|60> sory
[00:55] <tomreyn> if you want to replace your debian installation by a kubuntu installation, looosing all data / after backing up all data, you can just download the kubuntu installer, write it to a usb stick (using e.g. balena etcher) and then boot off that and install
[00:55] <user|60> but i have multi problem
[00:56] <user|60> i dont have any importand data
[00:56] <npm> @tomreyn Ubuntu 20.04.5 LTS
[00:57] <tomreyn> npm: there's #ubuntu for ubuntu support, probably the better place then
[00:57] <npm> I'm running kubuntu
[00:58] <tomreyn> oh, you just said "Ubuntu"
[00:58] <npm> which is based on 20.04.5LTS
[00:58] <npm> becaause i cut/paste /etc/issue
[00:58] <tomreyn> i see :)
[00:58] <user|60> there is a problem whit it i have downloaded kubuntu and when i try to boot i have file is missing and else problemws
[00:58] <npm> but i'm sure the problem would exist for regular ubuntu as well
[01:01] <user|60> anyone can tel me step by step whot shoul i do
[01:01] <tomreyn> npm: so, you have packages from universe installed, which have "best effort" support level unless you have an ubuntu pro subscription, which i think is what this message is saying. on a side note, kubuntu 20.04 LTS is supported until april this year.
[01:02] <tomreyn> user|60: this sounds like either the downloaded iso file may be corrupt, or it was not properly written to the installation media
[01:02] <user|60> aha
[01:02] <tomreyn> user|60: using balena etcher you can prevent either, or at least get to know when it happens.
[01:02] <user|60> what is balena etcher
[01:03] <tomreyn> a cross-platform  / multiple OS software for downloading and writing installation iso images to installation media
[01:04] <user|60> nice
[01:04] <user|60> one more question
[01:05] <user|60> what linux shoud i chose
[01:05] <user|60> my laptop acer aspire 5720g
[01:05] <tomreyn> well, this channel is only about kubuntu, so the obvious answer is kubuntu
[01:05] <user|60> its very old
[01:05] <tomreyn> there is also #linux
[01:06] <user|60> thank you and good night
[01:08] <npm> @tomreyn -- 20.04.5 is supported till 2025 https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
[01:11] <npm> but yes per "comm -12 <(apt-cache dumpavail | grep-dctrl -nsPackage -FSection universe/ |sort) <(dpkg --get-selections | awk '$2 == "install" { print $1 }' |sort)" i have many packages installed from "universe"
[01:13] <tomreyn> npm: note that i was referring to kubuntu, not ubuntu. this is #kubuntu
[01:14] <tomreyn> "pro security-status" might be the easier command
[01:15] <tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu#Support_lifespan
[01:16] <npm> oh i see "This machine is receiving security patching for Ubuntu Main/Restricted repository until 2025." ... "Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps' enabled provides security updates for Universe/Multiverse packages until 2030 and has 15 pending security updates."
[01:17] <npm> i guess i should try out my "Ubuntu Pro with a free personal subscription on up to 5 machines." and get on with it....
 tomreyn beat me! Was about to say Ubuntu flavours have different life span support. I did the same mistake a month or so ago. Hehe!
[01:19] <tomreyn> npm: and not that many of kubuntu's packages are not in main/restricted (but universe)
[01:19] <tomreyn> *notE
[01:20] <npm> so because the KDE packages are part of "universe" is why you're saying that Kubuntu ends support in April 2023?
 npm: be in mind these are Ubuntu related and not Kubuntu. So I'm still not sure if you are using Ubuntu, has a Ubuntu server somewhere or have a mix of Ubuntu with KDE package
[01:21] <npm> i'm using Kubuntu .
 Kubuntu is a distro, with its own schedule and life time. (re @IrcsomeBot: <npm> so because the KDE packages are part of "universe" is why you're saying that Kubuntu ends support in April 2023?)
 They have no support from canonical in general, so they can't keep up for too long
[01:22] <npm> ok well thanks for clearing up my confusion. (but i really really don't want to upgrade to 22.04)
[01:25] <tomreyn> npm: ubuntu and kubuntu share the same foundation (base packages), but many if not most of the GUI packages in ubuntu (gnome-shell/mutter) are in main and receive 5 years of security support, whereas most of those of kubuntu are in universe and receive community support - good community support for 3 years, then none, i guess, or just if someone gets around to it.
[01:25] <tomreyn> and that boils down to saying, simplified, Kubuntu LTS gets security support for 3 years, Ubuntu LTS for 5 years
[01:26] <npm> ok thanks for making that clear.
 /language@join_captcha_bot
[14:03] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:03] <shadowhawk> hey
[14:05] <cbc> Yo
[14:08] <shadowhawk> cbc: sup
[14:23] <cbc> anyone else checking out ChatGTP this morning?
[14:35] <BluesKaj> !supportt
[14:35] <BluesKaj> !support
[15:09] <romain331> Bonjour, J'ai installé Kubuntu sur un PC asus X102b et je me rends compte que le câble HDMI n'est pas reconnu. J'y branche une TV de l'autre côté. Auriez-vous une idée de la cause racine svp?
[15:12] <BluesKaj> !Fr | romain331
[15:18] <BluesKaj> faites ARC  connection sur TV, romain331
 KE7X
[17:48] <Roey> mmikowski: o/


[01:06] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-artwork (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.22 => 24.04.23] (no packageset)
[08:18] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: accepted edubuntu-artwork [source] (noble-proposed) [24.04.23]
[16:03] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-artwork (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.23 => 24.04.24] (no packageset)
[17:18] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: rejected edubuntu-artwork [source] (noble-proposed) [24.04.24]
[17:42] -queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: edubuntu-artwork (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.23 => 24.04.24] (no packageset)


[06:15] <VK7HSE> elky: Are you about ???
[06:18] <VK7HSE> Oops wrong IRC ;-)
[22:05] <cprofitt> #startmeeting
[22:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is cprofitt.
[22:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:05] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Mission Statement
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mission Statement
[22:06] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[22:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[22:06] <doctormo> Here
[22:06] <cprofitt> Hello all...
[22:06]  * pleia2 waves
[22:06] <cprofitt> Thanks for making it to the Ubuntu-Learning meeting
[22:07] <Vantrax> Thanks cp
[22:07] <cprofitt> Before we begin our first topic I would like to let everyone know that we need to prepare a 'rationale' for the CC (Community Council) meeting on June 2nd
[22:08] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[22:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[22:08] <cprofitt> We will use some of the topics today to help generate that
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> Should this not be a specification?
[22:08] <cprofitt> and we will discuss that later in the meeting... but I wanted you all to see that page.
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> OK
[22:08] <Vantrax> It will be part of the specification yes
[22:08] <cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I have seen that used as well...
[22:09] <doctormo> Should I add my rationale to the page, or here?
[22:09] <cprofitt> now.... for the first topic...
[22:09] <Vantrax> to that page doctormo
[22:09] <cprofitt> Mission Statement
[22:10] <cprofitt> opens the floor up to any suggestions
[22:10] <Vantrax> I agree with the change proposed, basically swapping out the first line of the existing project outline with that one
[22:10] <pleia2> I like the suggestion given on the wiki page
[22:10] <Vantrax> is that the correct understanding?
[22:10] <cprofitt> yes, that is the idea Vantrax
[22:10] <cprofitt> unless others want to suggest some more 'changes' to the word smithing
[22:11] <cprofitt> if there are no other comments we can vote on the proposed change...
[22:11] <Vantrax> I think you guys did a great job with it
[22:11] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda)
[22:11] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda).
[22:11] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:11] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:11] <cprofitt> +1
[22:11] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:12] <thewrath> +1
[22:12] <MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:12] <nhandler> 0
[22:12] <nhandler> +0
[22:12] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:12] <pleia2> +1
[22:12] <Vantrax> +1
[22:12] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:12] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:12] <DougieRichardson> +1
[22:12] <MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:12] <cprofitt> Last call for votes
[22:12] <cprofitt> anyone need more time?
[22:13] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:13] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
[22:13] <cprofitt> [AGREED] Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem
[22:13] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem
[22:13] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals.
[22:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals.
[22:14] <pleia2> tall order :)
[22:14] <Vantrax> very tall
[22:14] <cprofitt> It is a tall order...
[22:14] <nhandler> One short term goal would be to get approved by the CC
[22:14] <pleia2> short term: contact teams, get moodle running
[22:14] <cprofitt> and one I do not think we can full flesh out here, but I would like to build consensus on that we need to evaluate...
[22:14] <Vantrax> my suggestion is to create concrete short term goals and become more general for the medium and long term
[22:14] <doctormo> Gah my stupid computer crashed, I need the logs!
[22:14] <thewrath> +1 Vantrax
[22:15] <Vantrax> Mid term goal is to create the 4 programs for stage 1
[22:15] <cprofitt> I agree with immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
[22:15] <doctormo> cprofitt: +1
[22:15] <cprofitt> I do not think we need to vote that they need to be fleshed out...
[22:15] <Vantrax> time frame would ideally be for 10.4
[22:15] <thewrath> that would be a good time period
[22:16] <cprofitt> Vantrax can you build a page on the wiki for goals...
[22:16] <Vantrax> problem will be work volume unless we have more contributors
[22:16] <pleia2> it also depends on portions of the project
[22:16] <Vantrax> ill start one
[22:16] <yvan300> Vantrax: i'll help u
[22:16] <pleia2> the -classroom portion will still be recruiting folks to do IRC sessions
[22:16] <cprofitt> [ACTION] Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
[22:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
[22:17] <doctormo> Vantrax: Design should focus on leveraing the community and community growth.
[22:17] <cprofitt> +1 pleia2
[22:17] <thewrath> I can help with doing some IRC sessions that should not be an issue
[22:17] <pleia2> cprofitt: maybe we move on from this topic and let the wiki speak for itself?
[22:17] <cprofitt> yes
[22:17] <cprofitt> lets use the wiki as a draft page... and everyone can contribute their thoughts
[22:18] <doctormo> hang on, does the wiki still say that we're here to serve the -classrooms irc lessons?
[22:18] <yvan300> +1 cprofitt
[22:18] <pleia2> doctormo: -classroom is a sub-project of Ubuntu Learning
[22:18] <cprofitt> doctormo, no... IRC -classroom is part of our overall project...
[22:18] <thewrath> doctormo: do you mean like how the wording is that we server only the classroom lessons?
[22:18] <doctormo> pleia2: Do we have a list of sub-projects?
[22:18] <cprofitt> some people who come on-board will use IRC
[22:18] <pleia2> doctormo: official list? I don't think so
[22:19] <Vantrax> doctormo: they should be added to the LP
[22:19] <cprofitt> doctormo, we do not have such a list yet...
[22:19] <pleia2> but so far, -classroom, beginners team education focus group
[22:19] <doctormo> It would be good to have a list, I'm not in the IRC classrooms sub-project or it's agenda.
[22:19] <thewrath> cprofitt & pleia2: would it be a good idea to list our sub projects on the wiki
[22:19] <cprofitt> ready to move to the next topic?
[22:19] <pleia2> yep
[22:19] <cprofitt> doctormo, thewrath we will have a list of teams we are working with...
[22:20] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion
[22:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion
[22:20] <Vantrax> pleia2: can you add a affiliates part to the wiki page?
[22:20] <Vantrax> +1 cprofitt
[22:20] <pleia2> Vantrax: yeah, I can do that
[22:21] <cprofitt> While I do not like formal  structure to building teams... and community efforts...
[22:21] <thewrath> i think the committe should have a member or two members from all teams concerned
[22:21] <cprofitt> with the fact that we are going to work with so many different teams I think we would be best served to do so
[22:21] <cprofitt> thewrath, that is a good idea until we have numerous teams...
[22:22] <cprofitt> I would like to suggest something akin to the BT structure, but I am open to suggestions
[22:22] <pleia2> yeah, there are far too many teams for that to be feasible
[22:22] <DougieRichardson> not familiar with the BT structure, link?
[22:22] <Vantrax> cprofitt: my suggestion would be to have a 5 person project board
[22:22] <pleia2> cprofitt: I'm not familiar with the BT structure, can you explain?
[22:22] <nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
[22:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
[22:22] <cprofitt> thanks nhandler
[22:22] <Vantrax> BT has bodhi as a perm board member, an the others are elected
[22:23] <cprofitt> The structure I am looking at is the Jedi Council on that page...
[22:23] <doctormo> It's < 12 > 3 != 8, optimal team sizes of any kind.
[22:23] <cprofitt> and the BDFL = Bodhi
[22:23] <DougieRichardson> Anything not written from a Star Wars POV ;-)
[22:23] <Vantrax> lol
[22:23] <pleia2> yes, less dorky please
[22:23]  * pleia2 grins
[22:23] <thewrath> i agree sometihgn simialr to the BT jedia council structure i think would be feasible
[22:23] <Vantrax> UFBT = NERDS:P
[22:23] <cprofitt> We do not need the starwars references
[22:24] <pleia2> I don't think we should have any perm board members
[22:24] <doctormo> I know, next we'll be doing Star Trek federation councils
[22:24] <pleia2> but otherwise it seems fine :)
[22:24] <pleia2> doctormo: lol
[22:24] <cprofitt> I am thinking one 'head' position and a council of four perhaps...
[22:24] <Vantrax> that sounds good
[22:24] <pleia2> why?
[22:24] <thewrath> pleia2: agreed. members should be voted on
[22:24] <cprofitt> not sure of anyone's size thoughts
[22:24] <nhandler> With cprofitt = head
[22:24] <doctormo> cprofitt: -1, I don't think we need a head yet, none of us are yet in focus of the shared directives.
[22:24] <pleia2> doctormo: +1
[22:25] <cprofitt> doctormo, I agree with waiting on the head...
[22:25] <Vantrax> doctormo: that is also a reason for a head, to give direction
[22:25] <nhandler> cprofitt: I think the "council" should have different people who have experience in the different areas/teams we are working with
[22:25] <DougieRichardson> There are only 19 people in ubuntu-learning, how many people are you envisaging in this venture and should it be this centrally controlled
[22:25] <cprofitt> but I think there is a reason for one as we move forward
[22:25] <thewrath> doctormo:  +1
[22:25] <doctormo> Vantrax: In this case, direction is an amalgamation of overlapping priorities, not something that isn't defined.
[22:25] <cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I envision many in the future... and many of those will also join the projects aligned with out efforts
[22:26] <pleia2> right, so the "direction" of the project isn't always going to be best-served by a single leader
[22:26] <pleia2> we come from lots of places and presumably all the board members will have different priorities (this will be healthy)
[22:26] <cprofitt> I was not looking at the head being an overlord
[22:26] <cprofitt> but a 'lead contact'
[22:26] <cprofitt> and tie-breaker
[22:26] <thewrath> cprofitt: +1
[22:26] <cprofitt> if we have no 'head' then we need 3 or 5 member board...
[22:26] <thewrath> i like that idea. that should be what it is and not a lord
[22:26] <pleia2> I'm unconvinced
[22:27] <doctormo> A lead will be useful when we have someone who has joined from no other groups, who has contributed a great deal and is focused on the directives that form out of us as a group.
[22:27] <Vantrax> this is, and should always remain a colaberative process
[22:27] <doctormo> Then we can have a head.
[22:28] <cprofitt> doctormo, pleia2 do we need a lead contact?
[22:28] <pleia2> cprofitt: I don't think so
[22:28] <cprofitt> doctormo, pleia2 do we need an odd number on the board?
[22:28] <doctormo> Yes
[22:28] <pleia2> yes, odd number
[22:28] <cprofitt> 3 or 5?
[22:28] <nhandler> I think an odd number is good to have for votes
[22:28] <pleia2> 5
[22:28] <nhandler> 5 imo
[22:28] <doctormo> 5
[22:28] <thewrath> if no dead def an odd number on the board
[22:28] <thewrath> 5 sounds good
[22:28] <thewrath> *lead not dead
[22:28] <cprofitt> ok... lets vote on that
[22:29] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
[22:29] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board.
[22:29] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:29] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:29] <Vantrax> +1
[22:29] <cprofitt> +1
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:29] <thewrath> +1
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:29] <nhandler> +1
[22:29] <pleia2> +1
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:29] <doctormo> +1
[22:29] <MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:29] <DougieRichardson> +0
[22:29] <MootBot> Abstention received from DougieRichardson. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[22:30] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:30] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
[22:30] <cprofitt> [AGREED] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
[22:30] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
[22:30] <Vantrax> i would recommend the initial board be cp, bodhi, pleia, dr mo, and myself.
[22:30] <cprofitt> Should we vote for the board members?
[22:31] <cprofitt> not now... but next meeting
[22:31] <thewrath> i think we should have a proposal of how is interested and why they should be on the board
[22:31] <Vantrax> yes, next meeting i would say
[22:31] <thewrath> liek the fg leads in bt cprofitt ?
[22:31] <cprofitt> ok....
[22:31] <thewrath> *without the question mark
[22:31] <cprofitt> then I will create a page and people interested in being on the board can add their name, etc?
[22:31] <pleia2> cprofitt: +1
[22:31] <cprofitt> so we know who is interested
[22:32] <cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates
[22:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates
[22:32] <Vantrax> please do cp, link it the agenda
[22:32] <yvan300> cprofitt: +1 great idea
[22:32] <doctormo> I gotta get me a MootBot
[22:32] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings.
[22:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings.
[22:32] <cprofitt> Can everyone post their time zone
[22:32] <nhandler> I think we should consider using Doodle to schedule meetings
[22:32] <Vantrax> GMT+10
[22:32] <nhandler> [LINK] http://www.doodle.com/
[22:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.doodle.com/
[22:32] <cprofitt> EDT (GMT-4)
[22:32] <yvan300> cprofitt: most of us live in the western hemisphere
[22:32] <nhandler> UTC-5
[22:33] <pleia2> EDT (GMT-4)
[22:33] <DougieRichardson> UTC+1
[22:33] <thewrath> UTC -5
[22:33] <yvan300> let me find out
[22:33] <pleia2> thewrath: you're in my state, you're -4 :)
[22:33] <thewrath> pleia2:  ty
[22:33] <cprofitt> yeah... its UTC-5 when we are EST
[22:33] <cprofitt> we are EDT now... GMT-4
[22:33] <thewrath> pleia2: now its -4 seveal months from now its -5
[22:33] <doctormo> is doodle foss?
[22:34] <pleia2> thewrath: you are mistaken
[22:34] <nhandler> doctormo: I don't know, but we use it for other teams. It is an online tool (no registration needed)
[22:34] <cprofitt> nhandler, what does doodle do for scheduling?
[22:34] <pleia2> oh yes, I used doodle just recently
[22:34] <doctormo> nhandler: would be nice if this sort of thing was a druple/django module of some sort. bug beggars can't be choosers.
[22:34] <yvan300> i'm the same as thewrath
[22:35] <Vantrax> why not use gcal?
[22:35] <nhandler> cprofitt: You create a table listing possible dates and times. Users can then mark which dates/times work for them. It then displays the results in a nice table
[22:35] <cprofitt> Vantrax, what time zone are you?
[22:35] <cprofitt> ah... I found it back a ways
[22:35] <cprofitt> GMT+10
[22:35] <nhandler> Vantrax: gcal is only good for displaying the final meeting time, not choosing one
[22:35] <Vantrax> ^ GMT +10
[22:35] <pleia2> doodle example: http://doodle.com/fquzy498htwcv5ny
[22:36] <cprofitt> does doodle adjust for local times?
[22:36] <cprofitt> or is it set to one time?
[22:36] <nhandler> Yes cprofitt
[22:36] <nhandler> Each user can specify their time zone to have the possible times adjusted
[22:36] <cprofitt> nhandler, do you want to set one up for us then?
[22:36] <nhandler> cprofitt: Sure
[22:36] <cprofitt> thanks
[22:37] <nhandler> We are only interested in choosing a time, right? Not a date?
[22:37] <cprofitt> I would like to pick a 'day' and time
[22:37] <pleia2> well, I'd like to see a weekend vs weekday option
[22:37] <cprofitt> and we need to decide if weekends / weekdays are good.
[22:37] <DougieRichardson> If everyone shows a typical week's availabilty we get a better guess at a time
[22:37] <pleia2> DougieRichardson: +1
[22:37] <cprofitt> I am thinking we need to meet every other week right now...
[22:38] <cprofitt> +1 DougieRichardson
[22:38] <cprofitt> what about frequency folks?
[22:38] <pleia2> cprofitt: every 2 weeks for now
[22:38] <Vantrax> fortnightly
[22:38] <doctormo> I'm available all times that the jobless usually are (except 00:00 to 07:00 EST, sleep)
[22:38] <pleia2> we can adjust as needed
[22:38] <pleia2> doctormo: bah, sleep :)
[22:38] <nhandler> Ok, I'll setup the Doodle so we can choose a day of week and time
[22:38] <cprofitt> [AGREED] meetings every other week
[22:38] <MootBot> AGREED received:  meetings every other week
[22:40] <cprofitt> thanks nhandler
[22:40] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council
[22:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council
[22:40] <cprofitt> This was a request from bodhi
[22:40] <cprofitt> and I agree we need this to be a more comprehensive document in the end
[22:40] <yvan300> cprofitt: can you explain the topic more
[22:41] <pleia2> cprofitt: should we just add our thoughts to the rationale page?
[22:41] <cprofitt> bodhi wants to present the project to the Community Council on June 2nd
[22:41] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[22:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
[22:41] <cprofitt> Yes, please everyone add your thoughts on that page
[22:42] <cprofitt> We will want to have a complete 'charter' or 'specification' in the end
[22:42] <cprofitt> but bodhi wants us to have the rationale by June 2nd
[22:42] <pleia2> we will have another meeting before then
[22:42] <cprofitt> From the individual notes I will try to craft a draft... and we can vote on it next time
[22:42]  * pleia2 nods
[22:43] <DougieRichardson> It needs to follow this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
[22:43] <cprofitt> by they way anyone who wears a fancy hat (Martin) gets bonus points for his ideas
[22:43] <cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
[22:43] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
[22:43]  * cprofitt smiles
[22:43] <DougieRichardson> The rationale is one part but the usage cases are the most important thing, IME
[22:44] <doctormo> cprofitt: If it needs it, we should create a slight tree rationale where items that veer slightly are given their own sub-projects.
[22:44] <cprofitt> sounds good...
[22:44] <thewrath> doctormo: +1
[22:44] <DougieRichardson> If the usage cases are clear, other projects will grasp the advatage of the project quicker
[22:44] <cprofitt> everyone ok with process?
[22:45] <pleia2> yep
[22:45] <doctormo> From a very quick analsys we may end up with learning vectors as sub-projects. irc, locos, forums etc etc
[22:45] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax)
[22:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax)
[22:46] <Vantrax> everyone read the post im going to be putting up?
[22:46] <nhandler> No, link?
[22:46] <Vantrax> its in the agenda
[22:46] <nhandler> Ah
[22:46] <Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
[22:46] <cprofitt> My personal thought upon quick read of the announcement is that we need to rework it given the mission statement change.
[22:46] <Vantrax> yep, i will update that bit
[22:46] <DougieRichardson> When are you thinking of releasing this?
[22:46] <cprofitt> The intention part of it reflects the original mission Vantrax posted, but not the new one.
[22:46] <doctormo> Should those goals be meeting actions?
[22:47] <pleia2> Vantrax: I mentioned it before, but we want to be very careful about our use of the word "training" - perhaps to the extent of not using it *at all* in our documentation
[22:47] <cprofitt> I am also thinking we may want to wait until we have the rationale done and after the CC meeting; but unsure of the process potential projects take
[22:47] <pleia2> unless it's very specifically targeted :)
[22:47] <Vantrax> yeah, that is a point, but we are doing training, and its hard not to mention it
[22:47] <pleia2> we're "learning" and "education"
[22:47] <doctormo> pleia2: And for money, i.e. libal
[22:48] <cprofitt> I also think that the initial goal has to be expanded to include the idea of enabling teams to use Moodle to improve their existing training options
[22:48] <DougieRichardson> cprofitt: We should wait until the CC meeting.
[22:48] <thewrath> instead of training why not use educating and teaching?
[22:48] <Vantrax> cprofitt: this int a potential project, it has been approved by canonical. The CC meeting is more an annoucement.
[22:48] <doctormo> cprofitt: Teaching the tools and skills of teaching will be section 0,
[22:48] <Vantrax> an explanation of what we are doing if you will
[22:48] <pleia2> Vantrax: s/We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community./We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community and expert users of Ubuntu.
[22:48] <pleia2> or somesuch
[22:48] <thewrath> pleia2: +1
[22:49] <doctormo> pleia2: +1, much more balanced :-)
[22:49] <cprofitt> We may have four tracks we all want to see, but the overall part of this project is 'improving' the educations efforts
[22:49] <Vantrax> sounds good
[22:49] <doctormo>  and expert users, maintainers and advocates of Ubuntu
[22:50] <pleia2> doctormo: +1
[22:50] <cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I agree we should wait until after the CC
[22:50] <doctormo> Perhaps we should be less concerned about the topics in the description?
[22:50] <cprofitt> Vantrax, despite Canonical approval this is a community project
[22:50] <doctormo> I mean, mentioning Ubuntu yes, but the aim is teaching and equiping teachers, no?
[22:50] <cprofitt> and needs approval from the community
[22:51] <Vantrax> the aim is to create a self sustaining education system in the end
[22:51] <doctormo> A school?
[22:51] <doctormo> A university?
[22:51] <pleia2> which includes teaching teachers, developing materials, coordinating sessions
[22:51] <pleia2> advertising
[22:51] <DougieRichardson> vantrax:it doesn't work like that. Canonical != Ubuntu
[22:51] <cprofitt> [VOTE] Wait on announcement until after CC meeting
[22:51] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Wait on announcement until after CC meeting.
[22:51] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:51] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:51] <cprofitt> +1
[22:51] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:51] <DougieRichardson> +1
[22:51] <MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:51] <nhandler> +0
[22:51] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[22:51] <thewrath> +1
[22:51] <MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[22:51] <doctormo> +1
[22:51] <MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[22:52] <pleia2> +1
[22:52] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:52] <Vantrax> DougieRichardson: Jono Bacon = community manager? he already said go for it
[22:52] <Vantrax> +0
[22:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
[22:52] <doctormo> Vantrax: the community is more than jono
[22:52] <Vantrax> no argument there
[22:52] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[22:52] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
[22:52] <doctormo> Vantrax: he's more like the bridge from canonical to ubuntu with a bit of organisational flair.
[22:53] <cprofitt> [AGREED] Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting
[22:53] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting
[22:53] <DougieRichardson> vantrax: if we go to a CC meeting proclaiming an announcement, it will be rejected.
[22:53] <thewrath> i agree with DougieRichardson after they have given us approval then announcement
[22:53] <cprofitt> thank you doctormo DougieRichardson and pleia2 for your advice in regards to the CC
[22:53] <Vantrax> fair enough:P
[22:53] <cprofitt> I respect you all and greatly appreciate the advice
[22:54] <Vantrax> <- is playing devils advocate tonight
[22:54] <cprofitt> Vantrax, will your reword the announcement and put it on a draft page?
[22:54] <Vantrax> sure
[22:54] <pleia2> Vantrax: someone has to :) cheers
[22:54] <cprofitt> thanks.
[22:54] <Vantrax> ill link it into the agenda for the next meeting
[22:54] <cprofitt> Anyone have any non-agenda items?
[22:54] <doctormo> Decent will be tollerated with a pillowed fist!
[22:55] <Vantrax> lol
[22:55] <cprofitt> Dissent ?
[22:55] <cprofitt> or Decent?
[22:55]  * cprofitt ponders
[22:55] <doctormo> cprofitt: yea, creative dislexia
[22:55] <Vantrax> eww
[22:55] <doctormo> sorry
[22:55] <cprofitt> doctormo, all forgiven with your hat
[22:55] <cprofitt> [ENDMEETING]
[22:55] <nhandler> #endmeeting
[22:55] <cprofitt> #ENDMEETING
[22:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:55.
[22:55] <cprofitt> thanks everyone...
[22:55] <cprofitt> very productive...
[22:56] <cprofitt> I appreciate all the fantastic work everyone has put in.
[22:56] <doctormo> So the mode of the learning team is "under construction" until the announcement
[22:56] <Vantrax> more or less
[22:56] <thewrath> i would defatinatly would like to help out with anything i can
[22:57] <DougieRichardson> Out of interest, how many are here from other interested teams?
[22:57] <thewrath> i think this group will succceed and hoping that maybe ubuntu can be taught in high schools or colleges around thw rold
[22:57] <nhandler> o/
[22:57] <thewrath> yes nhandler ?
[22:58] <pleia2> DougieRichardson: bugsquad is interested but they aren't here, motu school is already doing classes in -classroom
[22:58] <doctormo> DougieRichardson: I'm from the LoCo interest, I focus on physical classroom events with local none ubuntu using public.
[22:58] <nhandler> thewrath: I'm just saying that I am with motu ;)
[22:58] <thewrath> ah
[22:58] <thewrath> sorry nhandler misunderstood what you were saying
[22:59] <doctormo> shall we move this lack to #ubuntu-learning?
[22:59] <thewrath> yea
[22:59] <thewrath> lol