[01:00] <locodir-user> #espanol
[01:00] <locodir-user> hi
[01:01] <locodir-user> anyone?
[01:01] <locodir-user> i have a problem, i can't start my pc
[01:01] <locodir-user> i have a panic error
[01:01] <locodir-user> in ubuntu 11.10
[01:02] <locodir-user> df
[01:02] <locodir-user> .
[01:03] <locodir-user> #/spanol
[05:38] <zozlo> hi guys
[05:38] <zozlo> i have a problem
[05:38] <zozlo> :(
[05:39] <zozlo> i can't start my pc
[05:39] <zozlo> i have a kernel panic in ubuntu 11.10
[05:39] <zozlo> anyone could help me? :(
[05:41] <zozlo> ?
[05:41] <zozlo> #espanol
[05:42] <zozlo> #ubuntu-espanol
[05:43] <philipballew> zozlo, lets see whats up here
[05:43] <zozlo> hi
[05:43] <zozlo> i have a problem
[05:44] <philipballew> your a spanish speaker I see?
[05:44] <zozlo> well my spanish is better than my english
[05:44] <zozlo> but my problem is the same in any lenguage
[05:44] <zozlo> hhe
[05:45] <zozlo> i don't know how i get a kernel panic this morning when i turn on my pc
[05:45] <zozlo> and i can not fix it, well to start i don't know how to fix it , or if is easy or the steps to do it
[05:46] <philipballew> well I can direct you to a Spanish speaking channel as well. is this the first channel youve looked for help on?
[05:46] <zozlo> yes
[05:46] <philipballew> also a temp solution can be booting into a older kernal i think
[05:47] <zozlo> i already tried
[05:47] <zozlo> and i have the same message
[05:48] <zozlo> buxybox v1.18 (ubuntu 1:1.18.4-2ubuntu2)
[05:48] <zozlo> kernel panic-not syncing:attempt to kill init
[05:48] <philipballew> i would try #ubuntu for help or #ubuntu-beginners or #ubuntu-mx for the Mexico channel if you want someone who doesnt only know enough Spanish to order at taco bell. Also lets see what that error googled does
[05:49] <zozlo> ok phil
[05:49] <zozlo> i'll try in mx
[05:49] <zozlo> #ubuntu-mx
[05:50] <zozlo> there is no one in mx
[05:50] <philipballew> theres like 10 to 15?
[05:51] <philipballew> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/locallanguage
[05:53] <philipballew> zozlo, try #ubuntu-es
[05:53] <philipballew> its all spanish.
[05:54]  * philipballew was unaware ubuntu had a Spanish channel. sounds nice
[20:42] <ariley> morning @grantbow
[20:42] <grantbow> morning ariley
[20:42] <ariley> ok
[20:42]  * pleia2 waves to ariley
[20:42] <grantbow> afternoon actually
[20:42] <grantbow> hiya pleia2
[20:43] <ariley> morning pleia2
[20:43] <ariley> afternoon all
[20:43] <pleia2> ariley: drop me a note if/when you'll be in the area, or come by the next ubuntu hour, ubuntu unleased 2011 is all yours :)
[20:43] <ariley> sure
[20:43] <ariley> thanks
[20:43] <pleia2> welcome
[20:44] <MarkDude> grantbow, ....
[20:44] <MarkDude> I am still waiting for monkey pics
[20:44] <MarkDude> Do I need to edit some?
[20:44] <grantbow> MarkDude! didn't get many clear ones
[20:44] <MarkDude> Thats ok
[20:44]  * pleia2 wants lions
[20:44] <MarkDude> You were tooo busy DOING things
[20:44]  * grantbow has lions
[20:45] <pleia2> MarkDude: you /still/ owe me a bio and photo for the partimus site
[20:45] <grantbow> best not in a penguin suit I'm guessing
[20:45] <pleia2> grantbow: oh and I'd love a partimus blog post from you about your adventures in kenya, somehow with a tie-in to partimus (that's possible, right?) :)
[20:46] <pleia2> hehe
[20:46] <grantbow> ok
[20:46] <MarkDude> Always best in a penguin suit
[20:46] <MarkDude> If you can learn one thing from me
[20:46] <MarkDude> It IS, anything that can be done with a hand
[20:46] <MarkDude> IS infinitely funnier with flipper
[20:47] <MarkDude> And therefore better
[20:47] <grantbow> MarkDude, where are you working now?
[20:47] <MarkDude> Well, maybe that logic falls apart
[20:47] <MarkDude> Starbucks near my house
[20:47] <grantbow> oh, I didn't know that
[20:48] <grantbow> we missed you at dvlug.org
[20:48]  * MarkDude gets more work done here
[20:48] <MarkDude> TOO MANY shiny objects at LaScala
[20:49] <grantbow> it can get blinding
[20:50] <MarkDude> Yes
[20:50] <grantbow> so ariely, you want to do a simple package?
[20:50] <MarkDude> So many languages spoken also
[20:50] <ariley> yes
[20:50] <ariley> @grantbow
[20:50]  * MarkDude shuts up, actual doing OF STUFF
[20:52] <grantbow> we'get got the git repo. It's been almost forever since I've done any packaging but I'll remember quickly. https://github.com/anth1y/Habit
[20:53] <MarkDude> grantbow, has forgotten more than most folks know....
[20:53] <MarkDude> :)
[20:53]  * grantbow blushes, thanks
[20:53] <ariley> I concur
[20:54] <grantbow> what docs have you been looking at to get started?
[20:54] <ariley> for packaging
[20:54] <ariley> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
[20:55] <ariley> unfortunately  (* or fortunately) the example package had bugs
[20:55] <grantbow> a link from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - cool, first time I've read these
[20:56] <grantbow> oh, bugs because it's old according to the link I gave
[20:56] <ariley> yeah
[20:56] <grantbow> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ is the new one
[20:57] <ariley> that is the one I was following
[20:57]  * grantbow cleans his ears
[20:58] <pleia2> if you guys find confusion/problems/etc with these guides, it would be super helpful if you emailed a list of issues to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(feel free to Cc: me)
[20:58] <grantbow> UDD vs. traditional, interesting
[20:58] <pleia2> he's been trying to get testers for the docs
[20:58] <grantbow> aha!
[20:58] <ariley> WELL then
[20:58] <grantbow> dholbach rocks
[20:59] <ariley> I will gladly send my screenshots over
[20:59] <pleia2> I think he's out this week for the holidays
[20:59] <pleia2> great
[21:00] <grantbow> http://www.debian.org/devel/ is of course another good reference
[21:01] <ariley> heavy
[21:02] <grantbow> focusing on developer.ubuntu.com is best, especially if testing is needed
[21:02] <ariley> @pleia2 which email of yours should I use to cc
[21:02] <ariley> ok
[21:02] <pleia2> ariley: use<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:02] <ariley> @ grantbow
[21:02] <pleia2> thanks
[21:03] <ariley> no thank you
[21:03] <pleia2> you're welcome to tell him I sent you, he might redirect you to a larger team working on the document but he's the leader-type and will know best
[21:03] <grantbow> nice
[21:16] <grantbow> ariley, so your http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=123 arrived?
[21:16] <ariley> yes
[21:16] <grantbow> how do you like it?
[21:16] <ariley> I like it
[21:16] <ariley> lost of pockets
[21:17] <ariley> lots of pockets
[21:17] <ariley> but I need a cross strap for it when I ride my bike
[21:18] <ariley> it's better than my hipster backpack which is HUGE
[21:18] <grantbow> good thing you got one before they ran out of stock
[21:18] <ariley> exactly
[21:21] <grantbow> ogio vamp, nice
[21:22] <ariley> it's nice
[21:22] <ariley> I'll bring it by
[21:25] <grantbow> http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/commute-2 looks good too
[21:25] <grantbow> but doesn't help us package :-)
[21:25] <ariley> nope
[21:26] <grantbow> quickly is cool
[21:26] <ariley> very
[21:26] <grantbow> I don't know how well it would do for a shell script. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
[21:27] <grantbow> should work
[21:27] <ariley> it's all python
[21:27] <ariley> I'm looking around
[21:29] <grantbow> Rick Spencer and Jono will be happy you're looking at it :-)
[21:31] <pleia2> ah yeah, dholbach is out through jan 9th http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2011/12/morocco/
[21:31] <grantbow> k, thanks
[21:31] <MarkDude> Quickly NEEDS some love
[21:31] <MarkDude> IMHO
[21:31] <akk> Agreed.
[21:31] <akk> Anything you make with it will have tons of dependencies (really only works on a machine where the full desktop is installed)
[21:32] <akk> and the GUI builder is pretty confusing.
[21:32] <broder> isn't the gui builder just glade?
[21:32] <broder> (not that glade isn't incredibly suckful)
[21:32] <akk> yes, I think so, and it's very confusing
[21:33] <broder> i tend to hold that against gtk, because i think its layout model is on crack, and everybody else is just trying to deal as best they can
[21:34] <akk> I'm not wild about gtk's layout models either. But glade's confusingness goes beyond that.
[21:34] <akk> Just things like "where would I look for a widget of this type?" and "What the heck do those weird icons mean?"
[21:39] <broder> oh yeah, sure
[22:31] <grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[22:32] <grantbow> ariley so a1 is out, a2 is Feb
[22:33] <ariley> sounds like a plan
[22:33] <locodir-user> hi
[22:33] <locodir-user> anyone can help me? !!!!!!!!!
[22:33] <locodir-user> i need to mount my hard drive again
[22:34] <locodir-user> im using a live cd to acces the internet to find the way to fix my pc
[22:34] <locodir-user> :(
[22:34] <grantbow> man mount
[22:34] <grantbow> mount -t ext4 /dev/sdax /mnt
[22:35] <grantbow> depending on your sda partition number and the directory you want to mount on
[22:35] <locodir-user> mount: only root can do that
[22:35] <locodir-user> :(
[22:36] <grantbow> on the live CD root shouldn't have a password
[22:36] <grantbow> as I recall
[22:36] <grantbow> so sudo mount -t ....
[22:38] <locodir-user> dont work
[22:38] <locodir-user> how can i try to format the HD and try to mount it?
[22:41] <ariley> this should help
[22:41] <grantbow> gparted or disk utility
[22:41] <ariley> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-disk-format/
[22:41] <ariley> or disk utility like grantbow said
[22:41] <grantbow> it should work though
[22:42] <grantbow> tyr "sudo su -"
[22:42] <grantbow> try
[22:42] <grantbow> that should give you root
[22:42] <locodir-user> yes, i have root now
[22:43] <grantbow> with great power comes great responsibility - be careful with that :-)
[22:46] <locodir-user> root@ubuntu:~# sudo mount -t ext4 /dev/sdax /mnt mount: special device /dev/sdax does not exist root@ubuntu:~#
[22:47] <grantbow> need to replace x with the partition #
[22:47] <locodir-user> how i can know the partition #?
[22:47] <grantbow> gparted or disk utility
[22:47] <locodir-user> ok
[22:48] <locodir-user> take a lot to scan for devices
[22:48] <locodir-user> and partitions
[22:49] <locodir-user> gparted
[22:51] <MarkDude> Welcome to uuid fun
[22:51] <MarkDude> Worth the effort,but a hassle
[22:52] <locodir-user> mount: special device /dev/sda4 does not exist
[22:52] <locodir-user> :(
[22:55] <locodir-user> ok
[22:56] <locodir-user> im trying to format as ext4
[22:56] <locodir-user> to see if i can mount it in blank
[22:56] <locodir-user> and install ubuntu 11.10 againt
[22:57] <locodir-user> again
[22:57] <locodir-user> at least i save my files in min.us


[01:15] <valorie> I'll try again but you have my vote of YES
 Why is it not just a comment of +1? That would have the time on it too
[01:15] <valorie> and I never do anything on my phone; this was last night on this very computer
[01:16] <valorie> I didn't see a place to comment either
 If you're signed in it should be there, no different then GitHub
[01:20] <valorie> I was
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/2aec0ac7/file_73475.jpg
[22:19] <santa_> sgmoore: I'm very sorry to hear the bad news, I know what it is to lose a loved one. I will refrain to ping you about technical work to give you some space, whenever you are ready feel free to ping me so I could give you a summary of what I have been doing so you don't miss anything
[22:20] <santa_> very sorry for your loss, my deepest condolences to you and your family
 Thank you very much santa_


[01:55] <nigelb> Ok, our meeting is the next weekend.
[18:59] <AlanBell> UDS diversity meeting is taking place nowish in #ubuntu-women-project
[19:14] <dwarfstar> please talk!
[19:14] <AlanBell> hi
[19:14] <dwarfstar> oh thank goodness
[19:14] <dwarfstar> I am having a difficult time due to newbie status
[19:14] <dwarfstar> have questions
[19:14] <AlanBell> ok, you need to find your local team, what country/state are you in?
[19:15] <dwarfstar> you cant see my IP address?
[19:15] <dwarfstar> I thought everyone could see it?
[19:15] <dwarfstar> my local team eh well I been on here for countless hours trying everywhere in the us
[19:16] <dwarfstar> I am in washington right near the portland oregon border
[19:16] <dwarfstar> there is no portland lug channel in the list
[19:16] <dwarfstar> you are one of my only hopes besides australia
[19:17] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-us-wa perhaps
[19:17] <dwarfstar> that channel does not show up on the list
[19:17] <dwarfstar> with at least five people in it
[19:17] <dwarfstar> I went through the entire list
[19:17] <dwarfstar> I just have about five questions
[19:17] <dwarfstar> three regarding installation
[19:17] <dwarfstar> and a couple about IRC
[19:18] <dwarfstar> since I just started this yesterday
[19:18] <dwarfstar> okay?
[19:19] <dwarfstar> AB? are you with me still?


[00:20] <web> aisrael: I do believe the config hook you fixed yesterday isn't loading correctly though.  I need to investigate a little further but believe it is keeping the original service hook for the `haproxy.cf`'s frontend setting.  Think everything else works though.
[00:21] <web> But that isn't your fault I believe its the charm wich isn't setup crrectly.
[00:21] <aisrael> web: ack. I'll investigate that more tonight
[02:04] <stokachu> axw: not sure if you noticed but the formatting is weird in that replicaset repo
[02:04] <stokachu> axw: im sure youre still messing with it as it looks recent
[02:04] <axw> stokachu: where abouts?
[02:05] <stokachu> axw: https://github.com/juju/replicaset/blob/master/replicaset.go
[02:05] <stokachu> maybe its just my browser
[02:05] <stokachu> looks like go fmt wasn't run on it
[02:06] <axw> I think it must be your browser, looks fine to me and go fmt isn't complaining
[02:06] <stokachu> axw: ok cool
[02:06] <axw> stokachu: thanks tho :)
[02:07] <stokachu> wow its just go files
[02:08] <stokachu> wtf is going on
[02:16] <web> man i need to start looking into GO.  I am hearing it in passing to often now.
[07:24] <web> aisrael: I know your gone. I confirmed the config hooks for the `frontend` settings of the `defaut_backend` isn't using the service name of the correct `backend`.  It keeps the default config service `haproxy_service`.
[08:42] <Muntaner> hello guys
[08:42] <Muntaner> is there a way to get from CLI the ip address of a service?
[08:42] <Muntaner> I mean, I can do it with stat - but need to do greps and cuts to get just the IP
[08:42] <Muntaner> (I need it in a script)
[10:16] <willemgf> Hello, I'm a newbie with juju. We like to use is together with maas in order to install bare-metals. Within maas I removed all nodes as we just start with this setup. one new node has already been added. Now I'm trying to perform juju bootstrap, but I get the error it will use an old existing environment. I would like to destroy it, but how can I get the name of the existing environment as this needs to be specified with the destroy-environment
[10:16] <willemgf> command?
[10:25] <schkovich> willemgf: juju switch will give you the name of the current environment
[10:26] <schkovich> $ juju switch
[10:26] <schkovich> maas
[10:56] <willemgf> thnx, I already found the solution how to destroy it.
[14:44] <gnuoy`> jamespage,  These are the two mps for moving the neutron contexts to charmhelpers if you get a sec https://pastebin.canonical.com/128420/
[16:36] <lp|sprint> jose: did you see the good news?
[16:36] <lp|sprint> jose: https://github.com/owncloud/core/issues/8537
[17:51] <jrwren> charmers and other charming folk, is there any guidance beyond http://www.jujugui.org/docs/1.20/authors-charm-interfaces with respect to more complex data exchange in charms?
[18:37] <aisrael> stub: what TZ are you in?
[19:36] <jaywink> hi all. help. I'm running Juju 1.22 and kinda accidently, out of interest, tried what "juju user change-password admin" does since it sounded like a good thing to do. But how on earth do I then "log in", now juju status says access denied??
[19:36] <jaywink> no docs about the command
[19:37] <jaywink> *luckily* I have a manual provisioned server where I also have another account to login...
[19:49] <jaywink> ok so I needed to manually copy the generated .jenv into my environments/... file :P some documentation might be neat, 1.22 is like stable?
[20:29] <lp|sprint> jaywink: correct 1.22 is our current stable release
[21:48] <web> I am feeling so distressed about SSL with Haproxy , my time is become supper limited to mess with it anymore.  Any other charm suggestions for creating a proxy to a Node.js application?
[21:49] <web> supper = super : Than again I am hungry
[21:50] <blr> web: did you consider just nginx?
[21:52] <web> blr: no, thought it was a server for sites.
[21:52] <web> like apache
[21:52] <web> but yeah that make sense now that i look at what I am saying
[21:53] <web> blr: so could I have it handle the SSL termination?
[21:53] <blr> web: it is a pretty capable load balancer
[21:54] <blr> web: yep - this might be helpful https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-nginx-load-balancing-with-ssl-termination
[21:55]  * web lays back to read blr suggestion and de-stress himself.
[21:55] <blr> not sure what state the nginx juju charm is in, but would guess it is pretty solid.
[22:08] <web> gonna give cs:~hp-discover/trusty/nginx-4 charm a try
[22:14] <web> blr: thanks the article is pretty straight forward.  Should be able to do this fairly quick I hope.
[22:15] <blr> nice gl web
[23:07] <Spizmar> Would this be the appropriate place to ask questions on charm setup of cgi-bin scripts?  Not on the script, but on setting up cgi-bin.
[23:09] <Spizmar> Would this be the appropriate place to ask questions on charm setup of cgi-bin scripts?  Not on the script, but on setting up cgi-bin in the charm install.


[06:16] <vish> yofel_: i'm not the only admin of that mentors team ;)
[06:19] <vish> when Sense left, he just made me owner of that team, i dont know why and he dint ask me either :s
[06:23] <vish> yofel_: hggdh, bdmurray , duanedeisgn and all the mentors(BC) are admins.. but I'm pretty sure the mentors dont know that :p
[06:24] <vish> yofel_: will mentioned it during next meeting … thanks :)
[06:27] <yofel_> ah, good to know, thanks :)
[07:15] <dzup> hello, is this bug with a solution ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/716835
[07:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716835 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Live streaming video doesn't play any longer...Justin Tv (affects: 1) (heat: 35)" [Undecided,New]
[07:17] <dzup> or at least confirm me if Mozilla Firefox 3.6.17 plays www.justin.tv fine? opera works but chrome/firefox doent
[07:21] <braiam> justin.tv?
[07:21] <dzup> yes
[07:22] <braiam> mm.. i get es.justin.tv...
[11:40] <brendand> hi
[11:40] <brendand> i think this bug should be 'medium' : https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/786505
[11:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786505 in compiz (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Window management - Super + W does not zoom out on all windows in all workspaces - minimized windows are ignored (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:40] <persia> brendand: Why?
[11:41] <brendand> persia - the effect is not very extreme
[11:41] <brendand> persia - possibly even low
[11:41] <persia> !importance
[11:41] <ubot4> You can learn about setting bug importance at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[11:42] <persia> Have you read that guide?
[11:42] <brendand> persia - yep
[11:43] <persia> Heh, OK.  Usually when I ask why someone gives me a longer reason after reading the guide :)  No worries.
[11:43] <brendand> persia - well, more elaborate would be : A usability issue that does not limit the functionality of a core application.
[11:44] <persia> If someone else asks, it's handy to quote the page (like "A usability issue that does not limit the functionality of a core application." ijn this case)
[11:44] <persia> Setting it now.
[11:44] <brendand> persia - thanks!
[11:44] <brendand> persia - and i'm thinking it qualifies as triaged now (from what i've read)
[11:44] <persia> Thanks for helping get the bug database in shape.
[11:46] <persia> I'm tempted to leave it "Confirmed" until someone can figure out *why* it is missing minimized windows.  As is, it needs more investigation before anyone can start writing code for the better of the two solutions.
[11:47] <brendand> persia - good point
[11:48] <persia> Then if you agree, I'll close the bug.  If you disagree with someone performing actions for you, feel free to explain why: most of the time a good explanation from someone who has been investigating an issue will override the instincts of a long-time triager.
[11:48] <brendand> persia - possibly it's related to the fact that minimized windows don't show a preview in the task switcher, just an icon
[11:48] <persia> Indeed, those may have the same cause (although I don't know enough details to know about it).
[13:39] <hggdh> persia: good morning/afternoon/evening/morning again (I have no idea where you are now ;-)
[13:40]  * persia is happily floating in a private timezone
[13:40] <persia> And a happy diurnal period to you as well
[13:41] <hggdh> persia: I have been wondering on usability/accessability being bundled together... the more I see it the less I like it
[13:42]  * hggdh would rather be a nocturnal animal, but noblesse oblige and all that
[13:42] <persia> "night" is a diurnal period :)
[13:43] <persia> Could you give me an example?
[13:45] <hggdh> persia: darn, I lost it :-(
[13:46]  * hggdh grabs a hot, just-brewed coffee (Brazilian, BTW) and really tries to wake up
[13:47] <persia> hggdh, Could you paraphrase an example?  Doesn't have to be a real one.
[13:48] <hggdh> persia: this was out of an email exchange on bugsquad, where accessibility was mixed together with usability
[13:49] <hggdh> but... until the cobwebs leave my brain alone...
[13:49] <persia> Catch me later then :)
[13:50] <hggdh> will do ;-)
[13:50] <hggdh> catching up with you is easy ;-)
[14:33] <brendand> i'm thinking this bug is 'medium' since it has a small impact on users, but in an essential hardware component
[14:33] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/786897
[14:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786897 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can not adjust CPU frequency (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[14:33] <brendand> and i think all the info is there, so i'll set it to Triaged
[16:29] <c0nsaw> Hey peeps, looking for a bug triage mentor ! have applied via the normal channels, but it says I may have better luck on this channel :) ...who do I contact :)
[16:30] <charlie-tca> You are in the right place.
[16:31] <hggdh> c0nsaw: just ask if you have a doubt -- better pointed questions than completely open-ended
[16:32] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: have you read the triaging guides?
[16:32] <c0nsaw> I have, so will I just tear into it myself !
[16:33] <charlie-tca> Please do, if you can. As any questions here, and one of us will try to answer it for you.
[16:35] <c0nsaw> awesome, thanks !
[16:39] <hggdh> c0nsaw: you do not really need a mentor, with us here. Any, and all, of us can help you -- you will be mentored by the team ;-)
[16:42] <brendand> i'm thinking this bug is 'medium'
[16:42] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/786897
[16:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786897 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can not adjust CPU frequency (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:42] <brendand> it has a small impact on users, but in an essential hardware component
[16:44] <hggdh> brendand: agreed
[16:45] <charlie-tca> brendand: should be tagged regression-release too, since the reporter "At Ubuntu 10.04.1 x64 I can choose the CPU frequency."
[16:45] <brendand> charlie-tca - i can do that, but atm someone will need to set it to medium for me
[16:45] <charlie-tca> We will do that
[16:46] <charlie-tca> hggdh: you got that one?
[16:46] <hggdh> charlie-tca: I did
[16:46] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[16:46] <hggdh> brendand: all done
[16:46] <c0nsaw> cheers hggdh, Im looking forward to finally be able to contribute something !
[16:47] <hggdh> c0nsaw: and we are looking forward to your help! :-)
[16:48] <c0nsaw> this is why I love ubuntu :) such a cool community :)
[16:50] <tuos> :-)
[16:50] <hggdh> we do try... BTW this was the reason I started with Ubuntu -- friendliest community I found, with nice responses (even to rather dumb questions)
[16:50] <tuos> Even idlers smile. =)
[16:50] <hggdh> indeed
[16:51] <c0nsaw> ha !
[17:23] <micahg> hggdh: +1 :)
[20:16] <maco> bdmurray: bugstats page is apparently broken. the .data file shows "None" in all the non-datestamp columns
[20:32] <brendand> low importance bug in compiz - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/787097
[20:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 787097 in compiz (Ubuntu) "workspace difficult to identify when using desktop wall on black wallpaper (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:32] <brendand> minor usability issue in core application
[20:52] <c0nsaw> Hi guys, Im #theNewGuy, started triaging today, if I feel a reported bug is a duplicate, do I just hit the mark as duplicate link, what happens then, just wondering before I hit it !!
[20:54] <micahg> c0nsaw: it's marked as a duplicate, there's some text you should add to the bug before marking it as a duplicate, have you seen the canned responses page?
[20:56] <c0nsaw> hi, no, can you link me please
[20:56] <micahg> !responses | c0nsaw
[20:57] <ubot4> c0nsaw: response is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[20:57] <c0nsaw> cheers !
[21:05] <JFo> c0nsaw, before you do that, what package is the bug for?
[21:05] <JFo> some packages have different duplication requirements
[21:06] <JFo> I'm thinking selfishly of course
[21:06] <JFo> :)
[21:07]  * charlie-tca thinks selfish is good sometimes
[21:08] <JFo> heh
[21:09] <c0nsaw> nothing in particular, my question was hypothetical, I'm just trying to get a feel for it :-)
[21:09] <JFo> ah, I see
[21:10] <JFo> well, something to keep in mind :)
[21:10] <c0nsaw> great to have you guys here anyway to show me the ropes :)
[21:10] <c0nsaw> ya for sure, thanks
[21:25] <hggdh> c0nsaw: ìt all actually depends on what is affected by the bug. Usually for kernel and X we do *not* duplicate -- unless we are very, very sure it is the exact same hardware
[21:26] <hggdh> so, rule of thumb: if it is touching the hardware, be careful. If it is purely software, probably kosher to dup
[21:27] <hggdh> and, of course, in doubt, just ask -- like 'Is bug xyz a dup of bug zyx?'
[21:27] <hggdh> and we will be happy to look at them and provide you with our insights (caveat emptor, my insights are usually worthless ;-)
[21:32] <bdmurray> c0nsaw: bug 787146 should have been marked as incomplete
[21:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 787146 in upstart (Ubuntu) "crashed (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787146
[21:33] <c0nsaw> will do !! i have a "bug" here, but its more of a feature request, and I have replied with pre-written response i feel is appropriate, whats the best way to close this..?
[21:34] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: If you are referring them to brainstorm, invalid
[21:35] <c0nsaw> bdmurray, cheers, have done that now !! sorry for being n00b, its my first day :)
[21:36] <c0nsaw> thanks charlie ! will do
[21:37] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: Thanks for helping with bugs.
[21:37]  * charlie-tca thinks the second day is the hardest
[21:37] <c0nsaw> it'll be a learning curve, but Im delighted to help out !
[21:38] <charlie-tca> We are always glad to have more help
[21:38] <c0nsaw> i have 4 moths till i go back to college, so i plan to do lots of work for ubuntu :)
[21:38] <c0nsaw> months*
[21:49] <hggdh> and we plan to be happy for your help ;-)
[21:52] <c0nsaw> I'll be stealing all the easy bugs for a while lol !!
[21:52] <charlie-tca> Whew! it is good to have someone grabbing those
[21:52] <c0nsaw> haha !!
[21:53] <c0nsaw> my pleasure..
[21:53] <micahg> c0nsaw: with almost 100k  open bugs, there are plenty to choose from
[21:53]  * charlie-tca thinks that makes his measly 1000 or so bugs a cycle look small
[22:02] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: those merge list / no Package: header bugs are likely duplicates of bug 346386
[22:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 346386 in apt (Debian) (and 1 other project) "Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header" (affects: 25) (dups: 23) (heat: 238)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346386
[22:08] <persia> hggdh, Did you ever manage to wake up today?
[22:08] <hggdh> persia: amazingly enough, not really...
[22:09] <hggdh> but still trying coffee as the medicine from the gods
[22:10] <persia> So, in terms of usability/accessibility, do you mean "accessibility" in terms of support folk with different input/output needs, or "accessibility" in terms of making a solution comprehensible to some theoretical user?
[22:11] <jibel> bdmurray, I did a quick stat last week about these "merge list" bugs and it seems that it increased significantly recently http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/Selection_062.png , do you think of a change in apt that would explain it ?
[22:15] <bdmurray> jibel: not that I know of - maybe more people release upgrading and apport working during the release upgrade?
[22:16] <bdmurray> jibel: oh but those aren't auto reported...
[22:19] <jibel> bdmurray, idk, just wondering. The content of the broken file is usually some html error page returned by a router/proxy.
[22:22] <hggdh> persia: accessability as support for different I/O needs
[22:25] <persia> Ah, then yeah, I don't think it makes sense to conflate usability with accessibility.  Mind you, I feel strongly that good usability has to be usable regardless of I/O mechanism, but I think that deciding how to conceive of a represetnation, or how to provide an expreience that doesn't require asking the user questions is independent of ensuring that everything supports a wide variety of I/O devices.
[22:26] <persia> And I further believe that the skills required to consider multiple I/O models are completely different from the skills required to ensure the conceptual model of the system is unsurprising.
[22:30] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: ah very good.  Will mark them dupes from now on.  Thanks :)
[22:30] <hggdh> yep
[22:37] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: Thank you, marking dupes will help tracking the importance of fixing that apt bug.
[22:37] <bdmurray> well not importance bug impact1
[22:42] <bdmurray> hggdh: I've modified https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl based off what was discussed at UDS.  If you could take a look that'd help
[22:42] <bdmurray> or anybody even ;-)
[22:42] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: why was that used as the master though?  It seems rather old now that I am looking through... :/
[22:42] <hggdh> bdmurray: looking
[22:42] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: What does age have to do with it?  Do you have something against old things? ;-)
[22:45]  * charlie-tca represents a lot of old ... :-)
[22:46]  * hggdh is on the same boat as charlie-tca
[22:46] <hggdh> bdmurray: I think it is exactly what was agreed on UDS
[22:46] <hggdh> (the wiki change)
[22:47] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: lol
[22:47] <RedSingularity> yeah, no matter i guess
[22:48] <charlie-tca> bdmurray: looks good to me too
[22:48] <charlie-tca> RedSingularity: point being the age of the bug doesn't matter, as long it is present in the current releases
[22:49] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: well thanks for bringing that up.  I have been closing those instead of marking dupes.
[22:49] <charlie-tca> We usually try to make the oldest duplicate the master, if it has enough information for the developers
[22:49] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: if you happen to know which ones they are its still possible to mark them as dupes
[22:50] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: yes, doing that now.  Have them in my emails.
[22:56] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: that bugsquad signature will be added automatically to the end of our posts or will we have to do it manually?
[22:57] <RedSingularity> if everyone votes on it i mean...
[22:58] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: if you use the greasemonkey script it'll be added to any comments you make at the bottom of a bug page
[22:59] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: yeah sorry.  Just got your email.  Ummm do i have to use the 'built in' responses?
[23:00] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: let me take a screenshot
[23:03] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: it just prefills the "Add comment" box on a bug page with the signature.  So you can type whatever you want before that.
[23:04] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: oh i see.  Ok great.  Nice to see that implemented!


[08:18] <achutha> hi
[08:20] <achutha> is this a chat?
[10:38] <kamstrup> ronoc: senpai! so any gotchas I should know about when porting vala code from dbus-glib to gdbus?
[10:38] <ronoc> kamstrup, i found it very easy, nothing dodgy, let me think
[10:40] <ronoc> kamstrup, i did notice a race condition with regards receiving property update signal against checking the new value of the property on my instance
[10:40] <ronoc> sometimes they value on the instance was stale
[10:40] <ronoc> i got around it with a timeout
[10:42] <kamstrup> ronoc: ok, cool. I don't really use properties, so let's cross fingers for a downhill ride :-)
[10:43] <ronoc> kamstrup, my code is much cleaner using gdbus -> lp:indicator-sound mpris-controller.vala and mpris-interfaces.vala have plenty of example code
[13:05] <ronoc> Cimi_, you never added yourself to the list of contributors on the transport-widget .c and .h
[13:05] <ronoc> fixing now
[14:26] <coz_> good day all
[14:47] <raffaele_> Hi
[14:48] <raffaele_> I have a bug with Unity. It's a segmentation fault
[14:48] <raffaele_> can you help me?
[14:48] <raffaele_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/686094
[14:51] <coz_> raffaele_,   is this an nvidia card?
[14:51] <raffaele_> yes
[14:51] <raffaele_> a fx 5200
[14:52] <raffaele_> i use the nvidia 173 drivers
[14:53] <coz_> mm  not sure how effective the  fx5200 is going to be with this
[14:53] <coz_> raffaele_,  do you know if it is an agp or  pci  card
[14:53] <raffaele_> agp
[14:53] <raffaele_> 4x
[14:54] <coz_> ok
[14:54] <coz_> raffaele_,  I assume you rebooted after installing the driver ....yes?
[14:54] <raffaele_> yes
[14:56] <raffaele_> I upgraded from maverick
[14:56] <coz_> raffaele_,  ok  one thing you can try  is to reboot  and hold down the "e"  key  or   "shift + e"  to get to the grub menu and the kernel boot stanza
[14:57] <coz_> raffaele_, just before  "quiet splash"   you can type in       nomodeset  and then hit  F10 to reboot with that option
[14:58] <raffaele_> Will I disable the nvidia drivers?
[14:58] <Amaranth> raffaele_: for your backtrace, can you install libnux-0.9-0-dbgsym and get the backtrace again?
[14:59] <raffaele_> ok, wait a moment. I'm installing it
[14:59] <Amaranth> raffaele_: and (though I doubt it will matter) unity-dbgsym if you can
[15:01] <cando_> hi guys ! i'm working on bug #688407  and i need a quick mentoring... :)
[15:02] <cando_> i've already added the quick list...with one entry:EMpty trash..
[15:02] <cando_> the problem is: how to empty trash...^^
[15:02] <cando_> i've already looked to the old unity-private code..
[15:03] <raffaele_> I don't found unity-dbgsym, it isn't in the repo
[15:03] <cando_> but it's in vala...i've also looked to nautilus code...but it's a bit difficult..:)
[15:05] <raffaele_> Amaranth: Ok, I've installed libnux-dbgsym. Now what should I do?
[15:07] <Amaranth> raffaele_: use the directions in the bug report to get a new backtrace
[15:08] <Amaranth> raffaele_: just like you did last time but now it should hopefully give more info there are the top of the stack were it just shows ?? now
[15:09] <raffaele_> ok, I have the backtrace
[15:09] <raffaele_> Do I put it on Launchpad?
[15:14] <raffaele_> Do I put it on Launchpad?
[15:19] <raffaele_> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61078543/Output2
[15:19] <raffaele_> this is the backtrace, but it looks the same of the file "Output1"
[15:24] <raffaele_> @Amaranth: the new backtrace looks the same in the file "Output1". What should I do?
[15:24] <Amaranth> raffaele_: still getting the ?? at frame 0?
[15:24] <raffaele_> yes
[15:25] <raffaele_> I don't now what does it means
[15:25] <Amaranth> weird, that either means gdb can't find symbol information for a library there or gdb is unable to read the stack correctly
[15:25] <Amaranth> I suppose it could be nvidia's libGL
[15:27] <raffaele_> Ok, so this can be a problem with the Nvidia drivers? Or do I need to install other debug symbols?
[15:28] <Amaranth> well, there is no dbgsym for nvidia and I think they strip debug symbols for "performance reasons"
[15:29] <Sam__> Can ne1 help me
[15:30] <Sam__> how can i help u people
[15:31] <Amaranth> raffaele_: I guess the unity/nux folks will have to see what they call in SubmitStateChanges and see if any of it could cause a crash
[15:31] <Amaranth> raffaele_: Probably a driver thing though :/
[15:31] <Amaranth> Sam__: I don't think anyone from the DX team is actually here
[15:33] <raffaele_> If I install the Nouveau drivers, and unity works, can we say that this is a problem with Nvidia drivers?
[15:34] <Amaranth> raffaele_: Almost certainly
[15:34] <raffaele_> ok
[15:34] <raffaele_> now i try to install nouveau driver
[15:34] <Amaranth> raffaele_: You have to install the experimental package to get nouveau gl
[15:34] <raffaele_> bot the problem will remain
[15:35] <raffaele_> there isn't basic 3d support for fx 5200 in the Nuoveau drivers in the repo?
[15:36] <Amaranth> raffaele_: yeah, you just have to install libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental
[15:36] <raffaele_> ah ok
[15:38] <raffaele_> also libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental-dbg ?
[15:38] <Amaranth> raffaele_: can't hurt, hopefully won't be needed though
[15:39] <Amaranth> raffaele_: If it still crashes with nouveau it would be useful
[15:39] <raffaele_> I hate to remove the Nvidia drivers. xD
[15:40] <Amaranth> eh, you can put them back on easily enough
[15:40] <Amaranth> you can even use jockey-text to do it automatically from command line if you can't get X working
[15:42] <raffaele_> ok
[15:43] <raffaele_> sudo apt-get remove nvidia-173 nvidia-96-modaliases nvidia-current-modaliases nvidia-settings
[15:43] <raffaele_> and
[15:44] <raffaele_> sudo apt-get install libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental-dbg xserver-xorg-video-nouveau xserver-xorg-video-nouveau-dbg
[15:44] <raffaele_> are correct?
[15:45] <raffaele_> I always have trouble removing the proprietary driver! XD
[15:49] <raffaele_> Ok I'm installing nouveau drivers. Now I reboot and next I'll try to start unity
[16:01] <Amaranth> raffaele_: You have to edit or remove xorg.conf too
[16:02] <raffaele_> I'm doing it from safety mode
[16:03] <raffaele_> What is the command to open the Xorg configuration file using gedit?
[16:04] <Amaranth> raffaele_: just do mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup
[16:04] <raffaele_> File not found
[16:04] <raffaele_> °_°
[16:05] <Amaranth> ok, perhaps we've got xorg patched to use the nvidia driver automatically if it is installed
[16:05] <Amaranth> In that case just start X
[16:06] <raffaele_> I'm already using X
[16:06] <raffaele_> I've runned the safe graphic mode
[16:06] <Amaranth> oh, it put you in safe mode?
[16:10] <raffaele_> I was the one to boot into recovery mode, then I used the option failsafeX and then I run in safe graphics mode
[16:12] <raffaele_> Now I'm in the X11 folder
[16:12] <raffaele_> there isn't xorg.conf
[16:12] <raffaele_> °_°
[16:13] <raffaele_> Ok i have a backup, I rename it running nautilus as root
[16:15] <raffaele_> In the driver section should I insert "nouveau" ?
[16:21] <avishekrc> hi
[16:46] <ubuntu_> Hi
[16:46] <ubuntu_> ops
[16:46] <Devil505> hi
[16:47] <raffaele_> ok
[16:47] <raffaele_> Amaranth, i have installed the nouveau drivers.
[16:48] <raffaele_> The result: kernel panick with all my kernels
[16:48] <raffaele_> I am using the ubuntu 10.10 live cd
[16:48] <Amaranth> hrm
[16:49] <Amaranth> kernel panic even when you boot in recovery mode?
[16:49] <raffaele_> yes
[16:49] <raffaele_> my lucky is that i have all my few files on Ubuntu one
[16:49] <raffaele_> xD
[16:49] <Amaranth> weird, how did you even boot the first time?
[16:50] <raffaele_> normally
[16:50] <Amaranth> We run you on nouveau KMS at first boot (and afaik the 10.10 live cd does too) and installing that extra package would only affect things once you get in to X
[16:51] <raffaele_> now i install maverick, I-ll update
[16:51] <coz_> raffaele_,  and all you get is desktop image and cursor ...yes?
[16:51] <Amaranth> you can chroot in to your installed system and remove the package or just edit your xorg.conf to use the vesa driver and edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf to blacklist nouveaufb
[16:52] <Amaranth> raffaele_: no need to reinstall for such a thing
[16:52] <raffaele_> ok
[16:52] <raffaele_> ok
[16:53] <raffaele_> say me the commands to do on the live cd
[16:53] <raffaele_> I have the root file system on sda5
[16:53] <Amaranth> raffaele_: just edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf and add a 'blacklist nouveaufb' line
[16:54] <Amaranth> raffaele_: then boot in recovery mode and install the nvidia driver again
[16:56] <raffaele_> again? xD
[16:56] <raffaele_> so how we do to fix this bug?
[16:59] <Amaranth> raffaele_: I dunno, the nouveau guys are still pretty much against getting bug reports
[16:59] <Amaranth> If you can get a decent amount of info on the nouveau kernel panic that may be fixable
[16:59] <Amaranth> raffaele_: For unity crashing with nvidia we fall back on "have the unity/nux developers see if something in that last nux function could crash"
[17:00] <Amaranth> If not perhaps running under valgrind will give more info, otherwise it's likely a driver bug and the best solution is to blacklist your card from even trying to run compiz/unity
[17:00] <raffaele_> I now how to run it under valgrind
[17:00] <raffaele_> I had already doed this
[17:01] <raffaele_> but I don't now how save the backtrace
[17:01] <raffaele_> because
[17:01] <raffaele_> the backtrace have A LOT of log lines
[17:01] <Amaranth> raffaele_: yeah, you have to pipe the output to a file
[17:02] <Amaranth> raffaele_: valgrind compiz --replace ccp 2> valgrindlog
[17:02] <coz_> ok be back in about an hour or so
[17:02] <Amaranth> that should do it, iirc
[17:02] <raffaele_> ok
[17:02] <raffaele_> now I reboot and i install the nvidia drivers
[17:02] <raffaele_> bye
[17:03] <raffaele_> quit
[19:30] <raffaele_> @Amaranth: I'm again here. How do I use valgrind to have a backtrace of compiz?
[19:31] <Amaranth> raffaele_: valgrind compiz --replace ccp 2> valgrindlog
[19:31] <Amaranth> raffaele_: I think that should do it
[19:31] <raffaele_> ok
[19:32] <raffaele_> Should I install the debug symbols for compiz, nux, ....?
[19:40] <Amaranth> raffaele_: both, and unity
[19:40] <raffaele_> ok
[19:41] <Amaranth> it's going to be full of junk from the nvidia driver but hopefully something useful will be in there too, just attach it to the bug
[19:44] <raffaele_> ok now i execute valgrind
[19:45] <Amaranth> it's going to be slow and appear to freeze for a long time
[20:05] <raffaele__> ok
[20:05] <raffaele__> I've the output
[20:05] <raffaele__> I've got the output
[20:06] <Amaranth> raffaele__: attach it to the bug and the unity guys should look at it eventually
[20:06] <nmarques> anyone can gimme some pointers... running against some undefined references while building nux, ex: gluErrorString
[20:06] <Amaranth> raffaele__: I'll take a look as well to see if anything obvious jumps out otherwise I think they're on holiday for the rest of the year
[20:07] <raffaele__> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61089423/valgrindlog
[20:08] <raffaele__> this is the log
[20:08] <raffaele__> 298 errors?
[20:09] <Amaranth> raffaele__: Yeah... wow
[20:09] <raffaele__> The bug squad will have a lot of work
[20:09] <raffaele__> xD
[20:09] <Amaranth> raffaele__: Some of those are likely false positives but that does seem to be a nux bug
[20:11] <raffaele__> Now ?
[20:18] <raffaele__> Now what should be done?
[20:37] <raffaele__> @Amaranth: Now what should be done?
[20:41] <Amaranth> raffaele__: Now we wait
[20:41] <raffaele__> ???
[20:41] <Amaranth> raffaele__: The DX team is not available right now
[20:41] <Amaranth> And even if I could figure out a solution I couldn't get it accepted into unity or nux
[20:42] <raffaele__> DX team is the bug squad?
[20:42] <Amaranth> No, they're the team that works on unity
[20:42] <raffaele__> ah
[20:43] <Amaranth> raffaele__: I've marked it as triaged though
[20:44] <raffaele__> We can also say that it is related to nux
[20:45] <Amaranth> raffaele__: I imagine they'll see that
[20:45] <raffaele__> ok
[20:45] <Amaranth> I dunno if they like having everything under the unity package or split out in to the components
[20:45] <Amaranth> I know for compiz I like having all the bugs filed against the main compiz package
[20:52] <raffaele__> is a segmentation fault system, can we give a greater importance?
[20:52] <raffaele__> It is a segmentation fault system, can we give a greater importance?
[20:53] <raffaele__> It is a segmentation fault, can we give a greater importance?
[20:58] <raffaele__> @Amaranth: Ok, thank you for helping me with this bug. Now I wait for the DX team.
[20:58] <Amaranth> raffaele__: Sorry, I don't want to touch the importance
[20:59] <Amaranth> Well, actually, I could bump it to medium, that's the default for crashes
[20:59] <raffaele__> ok
[20:59] <raffaele__> thank you again. ;)
[21:04] <lamalex> Amaranth, we usually link againt unity and the component
[21:37] <RAOF> nmarques: I didn't see anyone else answer your question; if you're still waiting - that looks like a failure to link against libGLU, which would be a build system bug.
[21:47] <nmarques> RAOF, another question, Iv'e noticed nux on natty requires a git version of mesa... would this trigger such behavior ?
[21:48] <RAOF> nmarques: No.  Does nux actually require a git version of mesa?
[21:48] <lamalex> nux requires whatever mesa is in natty
[21:49] <RAOF> Which is (now) 7.9, but was 7.9 minus a couple of commits.
[21:56] <nmarques> RAOF, I'll take a look deeper into this. Btw it's being built on openSUSE since I'm trying to package Unity for it
[21:58] <RAOF> Ok.  Unity shouldn't require any particular version of mesa (but newer is likely to be better ☺).  For nux I suspect you're being hit by transitive linking problems; nux doesn't itself link to libGLU, but it links to libglew which links to libGLU.
[21:59] <nmarques> RAOF, Mesa is 7.9 upstream as well from my side
[21:59] <RAOF> It's the obvious version to have at this point, yeah.
[22:01] <nmarques> RAOF, ;)
[22:02] <nmarques> RAOF, that's a direction... I'm going to check deeper the glew and glewmx packages
[22:38] <htorque> lamalex: hi, you marked bug 693550 as dupe, but the other bug's status is "fix released" - should this be reopened then?
[22:40] <nmarques> RAOF: Makefile hack for -lGLU kinda fixed it... there's no need to submit this kind of irrelevant patch, right ?
[22:41] <RAOF> nmarques: Depends on whether it's correct or not :).  I'm reasonably sure nux doesn't use glu symbols itself, but if it does then that's a real buildsystem bug.
[22:42] <lamalex> htorque, I'm not sure yet, It still looks fixed to me- I think something is possibly out of date on the reporters machine
[22:42] <nmarques> RAOF, it's for examples and gputests... I choosed not to disable them :)
[22:42] <nmarques> RAOF, the rest works fine mate :)
[22:43] <RAOF> nmarques: Could you check if they use glu symbols directly, and file a bug if they do?
[22:43] <htorque> lamalex, what could be out of date - i'm the reporter :)
[22:43] <lamalex> ha oh
[22:43] <nmarques> RAOF, I'll take a look, there's a couple of things I need to polish here first... so far everything is a bit ugly on my side
[22:43] <lamalex> htorque, unity, nux, gnome-screensaver?


[01:24] <pmatulis> i rebooted a machine and status shows 'hook failed: "leader-settings-changed"'. how do i get out of that?
[01:32] <anastasiamac> pmatulis: 'juju resolved <unit-name>', see for 'juju help resolved' for more info
[01:32] <anastasiamac> pmatulis: u might need to do it for all units on that machine.. altho we r hoping u have a unit/machine
[01:38] <pmatulis> anastasiamac, hi! awesome. i did it for three units on the machine and everything looks fine now
[01:39] <anastasiamac> pmatulis: \o/
[01:41] <pmatulis> anastasiamac, btw, what is an elegant way to simulate a downed unit? nova-compute/1 to be precise
[01:42] <anastasiamac> pmatulis: i dont know specifics for nova-compute but when i need to have a 'downed' unit, i stop it's machine
[01:44] <pmatulis> anastasiamac, yeah, that's what got me into trouble :) i neglected the fact that this is a hyperconverged openstack node
[01:44] <anastasiamac> pmatulis: :)
[01:45] <pmatulis> i guess i'll go monkey around with the processes in the machine
[01:45] <anastasiamac> k
[02:12] <thumper> pmatulis: the best way is to ssh into the machine and stop the unit agent
[02:42] <pmatulis> thumper, and that will stop the corresponding "service" (e.g. nova-compute)?
[02:43] <pmatulis> (same as 'systemctl stop nova-compute.service ?)
[02:52] <thumper> pmatulis: no
[02:52] <thumper> if you are trying to replciate a workload down
[02:52] <thumper> then you need to take the workload down, not the agent
[02:52] <thumper> unless you are trying to replicate a machine down
[02:53] <pmatulis> thumper, right, that's what i thought
[04:43] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: lgtm! a few small things before landing. let's get it in and make progress
[05:24] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: just back from lunch, thx for review,
[05:24] <wallyworld> no worries
[06:16] <kelvinli_> hi wallyworld saw some of the comments are not different with the spec, got time HO to discuss further?
[06:17] <wallyworld> sure
[06:35] <wallyworld> kelvinli_: forgot to ask - with ken's external-ip issue - is it just sufficient for us to assign a user supplied external ip value passed in at bootstrap time to the correspondoing "external-ips" controller service attribute
[06:35] <kelvinli_> wallyworld: im not sure, need to take a look further
[06:35] <wallyworld> ok, next week :-)
[06:35] <kelvinli_> yep
[07:22] <manadart> Trivial review: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10579
[07:39] <elox>  /msg NickServ identify 1ircpassword
[07:40] <elox> fantastic passwordchange?
[08:12] <manadart> achilleasa: I was talking to rick_h about the network/space remodelling work last week and he mentioned you would be in the slot to move on to this soon.
[08:13] <manadart> This is worth a read, as it is something we are looking into as part of the work: https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/multiple-space-bindings-per-endpoint/1999
[08:17] <achilleasa> manadart: thanks for the link!
[10:11] <stickupkid> achilleasa, if the series isn't valid and we don't ask the user to use force, can they still use force?
[10:13] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I guess they could but it would still fail right? Could it be a valid series that the client doesn't know of yet?
[10:14] <stickupkid> achilleasa, so if the client doesn't know about it, we don't either, so in that instance we would need a new release... using force wouldn't help either, as no binaries... but it seems very total.
[10:17] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I guess we could leave it as-is then. It's highly unlikely that people will try to bootstrap with an invalid series name to begin with, right?
[10:45] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I pushed a commit to my packaging PR which addresses the review comments. As per John's suggestion I will extract the FromURL method and move it to my upcoming juju PR
[10:56] <stickupkid> achilleasa, i'll swap you then https://github.com/juju/os/pull/12
[11:01] <achilleasa> stickupkid: approved
[11:06] <stickupkid> achilleasa, ta
[11:06] <stickupkid> achilleasa, i approved yours as well
[11:06] <stickupkid> good spot about users in urls
[11:06] <stickupkid> that was a disaster waiting to happen
[11:14] <achilleasa> stickupkid: that's why we should never log errors :D
[11:15] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I removed the URL bits. Can you do a final check before I merge?
[11:18] <stickupkid> achilleasa, yeap, happy with that
[12:39] <manadart> stickupkid: I responded to you comment. in my patch. Take a look when you've the time.
[14:00] <rick_h> stickupkid:  manadart made a suggestion for the wording. Let me know what you think.
[14:00] <manadart> rick_h: Works for me; will mod.
[14:02] <stickupkid> rick_h, yarp, much better
[14:12] <hml> manadart: i updated the comments for items you had questions in my pr.  pls take a look and see if they make more sense
[14:21] <manadart> hml: Thanks. All looks good.
[15:30] <magicaltrout> hello fine people
[15:30] <magicaltrout> i need to bootstrap a kubernetes cloud
[15:30] <magicaltrout> and its been a while and i'm stuck
[15:33] <magicaltrout> rick_h: wake up! ;)
[15:35] <stickupkid> magicaltrout, think he's out atm, where you stuck?
[15:36] <magicaltrout> just trying to figure out the bootstrap docs stickupkid
[15:36] <magicaltrout> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MHvTVQVyyd/
[15:36] <magicaltrout> so anyway
[15:37] <magicaltrout> i have a k8s cluster with not much in it, few namespaces and a couple of pods and i need to write some k8s charms
[15:37] <magicaltrout> so i'm trying to bootstrap it
[15:37] <magicaltrout> works using kubectl on the same box as juju
[15:37] <magicaltrout> but i get that, but i can't find any docs telling me what blanks I should be filling in there
[15:38] <magicaltrout> for kubernetes spun up from juju, what is the cloud name/type/region blah
[15:38] <magicaltrout> I just get told its wrong when I guess
[15:38] <stickupkid> magicaltrout, is it a local one?
[15:39] <stickupkid> magicaltrout, "juju add-k8s kubernetes --local" would work in that case
[15:39] <magicaltrout> well thats the other thing, i saw local in the help.. i have zero clue what local refers to
[15:39] <magicaltrout> local to what?
[15:39] <magicaltrout> oh like "If you just
[15:39] <magicaltrout> want to update the local cache and not a running controller, use
[15:39] <magicaltrout> the --local option."
[15:39] <stickupkid> magicaltrout, yeah
[15:39] <magicaltrout> well I have a controller, is this not the generic controller?
[15:40] <magicaltrout> like its on a box which already has a juju connected to an openstack cloud...
[15:41] <magicaltrout> don't i just use that controller?
[15:41] <magicaltrout> its not clear
[15:44] <pmatulis> magicaltrout, generally you add a cloud to your local client
[15:45] <magicaltrout> consider me well confused... we always use controllers and now i'm being told to add stuff to a local client...
[15:47] <tvansteenburgh> magicaltrout: it sounds like you're trying to do the bootstrap step before you do the `juju add-k8s` step
[15:47] <magicaltrout> no i'm running the juju add-k8s step tvansteenburgh
[15:48] <magicaltrout> infact
[15:48] <magicaltrout> local gives me the same error
[15:48] <magicaltrout> i still dont' know what to type! :)
[15:48] <tvansteenburgh> And I don't know what you've already typed! :)
[15:48] <magicaltrout> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MXkSKsmQgH/
[15:48] <magicaltrout> that was my last guess cause stickupkid told me to do --local
[15:49] <pmatulis> magicaltrout, just curious, did you look over any of the documentation? maybe that stuff needs improving
[15:49] <magicaltrout> on that box, juju status, shows my bootstrapped controller and kubectl get namespaces runs fine
[15:49] <magicaltrout> pmatulis: https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/using-kubernetes-with-juju/1090
[15:49] <magicaltrout> i have this page open
[15:50] <magicaltrout> i have run  juju add-k8s --help
[15:50] <magicaltrout> and i'm absolutely non the wiser
[15:50] <tvansteenburgh> magicaltrout: Pipe your kubeconfig to add-k8s
[15:52] <magicaltrout> i've tried a few different methods of getting kubectl in
[15:52] <magicaltrout> but i also know its reading it cause i messed the file up
[15:52] <magicaltrout> and it failed with another error message
[15:52] <magicaltrout> https://asciinema.org/a/X2LWuBEpolBYYvoT79JFT8zwm
[15:53] <magicaltrout> i mean, it all seems to be working, so i'm clearly missing something dumb but its not obvious in the docs
[16:07] <magicaltrout> i mean
[16:07] <magicaltrout> if i wanted to fill out the cloud and region
[16:07] <magicaltrout> what the hell goes in them?
[16:07] <magicaltrout> I do see any examples anywhere
[16:12] <achilleasa> stickupkid: I am trying to find a place in the juju code-base to add the "get snap store assertions" helper. Any ideas? "snap/assertions" would be great but "snap" is used for the snapcraft bits
[16:12] <achilleasa> (there is also a service/snap which doesn't seem right)
[16:12] <stickupkid> achilleasa, do they reference any of the juju/juju code base, if not, then core/snap/assertions?
[16:13] <stickupkid> although core should be renamed to pkg or internal :)
[16:14] <achilleasa> stickupkid: no, it's just the bit that I removed from the juju/packaging PR. Ok, I will put it there for now...
[16:15] <magicaltrout> jeez
[16:15] <magicaltrout> it actually added something
[16:17] <magicaltrout> so tvansteenburgh to get it to add the cloud i had to run
[16:18] <magicaltrout> juju add-k8s k8s-test-cloud --debug --region openstack/RegionOne --storage openstack-standard
[16:18] <pmatulis> https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/tutorial-installing-kubernetes-with-cdk-and-using-auto-configured-storage/1469#heading--adding-the-cluster-to-juju
[16:18] <pmatulis> magicaltrout, ^^^
[16:18] <pmatulis> also: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1830949
[16:18] <mup> Bug #1830949: [k8s] add-k8s command has ambigious UX <usability> <juju:Fix Committed by anastasia-macmood> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830949>
[16:20] <magicaltrout> ah yeah that tutorial has the region in as well pmatulis yeah, i picked that up a few minutes ago from another tutorial
[16:21] <magicaltrout> trying to bootstrap now thanks
[16:25] <rick_h> magicaltrout: geeze, had to take the dog to the vet. Sorry :P
[16:25] <rick_h> magicaltrout:  you get going?
[16:26] <magicaltrout> no probs rick_h
[16:26] <magicaltrout> the thing seems to be trying to bootstrap
[16:26] <rick_h> magicaltrout:  that's a good thing
[16:27] <magicaltrout> that add-k8s command is a mindfuck
[16:27] <rick_h> lol, a little bit
[16:28] <rick_h> magicaltrout:  going to get some food, but feedback/etc in discourse is helpful for sure.
[16:29] <magicaltrout> I think the issue pmatulis linked to in launchpad captures the problem pretty well
[16:29] <rick_h> I'm hoping we can get to a point that add-cloud/add-k8s are pretty much the same walk through of stuff vs the different worlds they have now.
[16:29] <rick_h> magicaltrout:  yea
[16:29] <magicaltrout> but if i hit more I'll bring it up. I need to get some k8s charms written for Druid
[16:29] <magicaltrout> so I'm sure i'll hit some more fun
[16:34] <magicaltrout> epic, bootstrap came to life
[16:34] <magicaltrout> thanks folks
[20:53] <magicaltrout> random k8s charm question
[20:53] <magicaltrout>       username: %(docker_image_username)s
[20:53] <magicaltrout>       password: %(docker_image_password)s
[20:53] <magicaltrout> what are they when they're at home?
[20:53] <magicaltrout> like, don't you push the docker image as a resource, so what does it relate to?
[20:57] <magicaltrout> image_info.registry_path..
[20:57] <magicaltrout> etc. is that just some juju thing then?
[21:16] <rick_h> magicaltrout:  hmm, not seeing that in the spec definition. Is that something image specific?
[21:16] <magicaltrout> na its in all of them... it looks like its how juju authenticates with the juju docker repo I guess
[21:17] <rick_h> oh maybe
[21:18] <magicaltrout> well when I say all of them
[21:18] <magicaltrout> I mean mediawiki and mariadb
[21:18] <magicaltrout> my sample pool :P
[22:16] <magicaltrout> okay basic charm works
[22:16] <magicaltrout> thats pretty cool
[22:16] <magicaltrout> deployment:
[22:16] <magicaltrout>   type: stateless | stateful
[22:16] <magicaltrout>   service: cluster | loadbalancer | external
[22:16] <magicaltrout> anyone know where that goes? to get a loadbalancer IP?
[22:16] <magicaltrout> it seems to suggest it goes in metadata.yaml
[22:16] <magicaltrout> "Charm metadata syntax looks like this"
[22:17] <magicaltrout> but if I stick it in there charm build tells me to get lost
[22:18] <magicaltrout> proof: E: Unknown root metadata field (deployment)
[22:27] <magicaltrout> ah thats just a proof thing
[22:27] <magicaltrout> it still deploys and does what it claims
[22:27] <magicaltrout> good stuff


[00:02] <leonardr> yeah, one little change got rid of most of the errors
[00:22] <jml> g'night all
[00:36] <lifeless> jml: ciao
[02:08] <lifeless> [02:08] <lifeless>     Hard / Soft  Page ID
[02:08] <lifeless>      283 / 2484  Distribution:EntryResource:searchTasks
[02:08] <lifeless>      103 /  242  BugTask:+index
[02:08] <lifeless>       94 /  209  Distribution:+bugs
[02:08] <lifeless>       52 / 4427  Archive:+index
[02:08] <lifeless>       38 /   85  Branch:+index
[02:08] <lifeless>       23 /    3  ProjectGroup:+milestones
[02:08] <lifeless>       15 /  258  Question:+index
[02:09] <lifeless>       11 /    1  Distribution:+builds
[02:09] <lifeless>       10 /    1  DistributionSourcePackage:+filebug
[02:09] <lifeless>        8 /    2  Person:+bugs
[03:06] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (318): FAILURE in 4 hr 54 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/318/
[03:06] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=buildbot-poller] automatic merge from stable. Revisions: 12231,
[03:06] <LPCIBot> 12232 included.
[04:21] <Ursinha> lifeless, have a minute for a review?
[04:21] <Ursinha> https://code.launchpad.net/~ursinha/qa-tagger/681099-consider-untestable-bugs/+merge/46870
[04:26] <lifeless> Ursinha-afk: done
[05:01] <Ursinha> thanks lifeless
[05:03] <lifeless> de nada
[05:05] <Ursinha> :)
[08:22] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[08:22] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (319): FIXED in 5 hr 15 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/319/
[08:22] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=buildbot-poller] automatic merge from stable. Revisions: 12233,
[08:22] <LPCIBot> 12234 included.
[13:30] <lifeless> \o/
[13:46] <al-maisan> hmm .. this channel used to be livelier
[13:46] <lifeless> its < 8am where everyone in the team is
[13:47] <lifeless> sprint time :)
[13:47] <al-maisan> ah, I see :)
[15:27] <lifeless> jml: are you going to show testr/tribunal?
[15:28] <jml> lifeless: yes
[15:29] <jml> lifeless: testr, tribunal, subunit, fixtures, testdoc, etc.
[15:30] <lifeless> \o/
[16:20] <Ursinha> leonardr, is bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/486974 actually fix released?
[16:20] <_mup_> Bug #486974: no API documentation of Person <bugjam2010> <lp-foundations> <qa-ok> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by leonardr> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/486974 >
[16:21] <Ursinha> it was marked as fix released so the qa-tagger is ignoring it
[16:31] <Ursinha> leonardr, it's not actually released yet, as production doesn't have it, right? can I change it back to Fix Committed?
[16:40] <leonardr> ursinha: yeah, sure
[16:40] <leonardr> sorry
[16:40] <Ursinha> leonardr, no problem, really
[16:42] <Ursinha> jcsackett, is the partial fix of bug 618400 ok to be deployed?
[16:42] <_mup_> Bug #618400: Distribution:+archivemirrors timing out in 1% of requests <lp-registry> <mirror> <pg83> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by jcsackett> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/618400 >
[16:42] <Ursinha> as in it doesn't need qa or it won't break anything
[16:43] <jcsackett> ursinha: yeah, i took a look at the affected pages last night--all seems groovy.
[16:43] <Ursinha> jcsackett, cool. I'll mark it as qa-ok :)
[16:43] <Ursinha> thanks!
[16:43] <jcsackett> np.
[16:43] <jcsackett> with luck, full fix will land today.
[17:13] <thumper> huwshimi: please can I talk to you at the start of squad time?
[17:31] <huwshimi> thumper: Will it take long. I need to have a meeting with someone else and have that scheduled straight up
[17:31] <thumper> huwshimi: I just want to point to some styling bugs in LP
[17:32] <thumper> huwshimi: should just be 1 or 2 minutes
[17:32] <huwshimi> thumper: ok no problems then
[17:39] <vanguard> is this the right address if I fail to build a source package?
[17:42] <thumper> vanguard: it is good enough, what's up?
[17:43] <vanguard> I just fell for the - and _ in the orig.tar.gz name
[17:43] <jml> huwshimi: we might have to reschedule. I wasn't expecting this talk.
[17:43] <vanguard> now I got another problem, I have  Depends: default-jre (>= 1.6) in my control file
[17:43] <vanguard> when I run debuild, it tells me that (>= 1.6 is no valid version
[17:44] <thumper> wgrant: can you help?
[17:44] <vanguard> where did that ) go?
[17:44] <thumper> or bigjools
[17:44] <wgrant> vanguard: Please pastebin your control file.
[17:45] <vanguard> sure
[17:46] <vanguard> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/556236/
[17:49] <james_w`> vanguard, you need a comma before default-jdk on the Build-Depends line
[17:50] <thumper> huwshimi: bug 705548
[17:50] <_mup_> Bug #705548: Multiline editor needs CSS tweaks <css> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/705548 >
[17:51] <huwshimi> thumper: Thanks for that
[17:51] <thumper> np
[17:52] <vanguard> james_w`: okay, there is .deb now. I have to check it out
[17:53] <vanguard> the package is opened by gdebi, but in the file list is nothing of my project. How do I tell debuild to pack the .jar file into the .deb?
[17:54] <vanguard> sry, g2t
[17:54] <vanguard> g2g
[18:05] <jml> mpt:
[18:05] <jml> mpt: http://people.canonical.com/~jml/convergence/
[18:42] <vanguard> I build a source package, but after "debuild", I have a package that only contains the changelog and stuff, but not my actual .jar file. How do I add it?
[18:45] <bigjools> vanguard: try #ubuntu-motu for packaging questions
[18:46] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build (321): FAILURE in 5 hr 10 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/321/
[18:46] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [rs=buildbot-poller] automatic merge from stable. Revisions: 12239,
[18:46] <LPCIBot> 12240, 12241 included.
[18:56] <pcjc2> hi, lifeless - rather than just fix the cve case, I've started a search for all dubious SQL which employs a sub-select
[18:57] <pcjc2> my search is based on grep and manual checking so far, but if I come up with a list, I'll file a meta-bug for the issue
[18:57] <pcjc2> bugtask.py is looking like a strong culprit
[18:58] <pcjc2> Any chance you could paste me some sanitized stats on where I might most usefully look to fix first?
[19:07] <pcjc2> In case it is of interest to anyone, my commit hook robot code:
[19:07] <pcjc2> (WIP)
[19:07] <pcjc2> http://pastebin.com/8m2cWXZ3
[19:08] <pcjc2> and the git part: http://pastebin.com/ahF1U3RX
[19:08] <pcjc2> It is a two-part hook / update process, the hook uses git shell commands to populate a sqlite DB
[19:08] <pcjc2> The update process pulls work items out of the sqlite DB and uses launchpadlib to make updates to bugs
[19:09] <pcjc2> The only snag so far is that it can't handle private bugs, for the project as it is not subscribed to them. I could add the robot to our developers team, but I can't handle the extra email it would generate - the robot's email address forwards to me
[19:22] <pcjc2> So far I've found 11 candidates in the code-base for SQL improvement
[19:23] <pcjc2> (And that is with the very crude search assuming the appropriate statements are on the same line)
[19:24] <pcjc2> http://pastebin.com/3Ln9z4qg
[19:35] <pcjc2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/705582
[19:35] <_mup_> Bug #705582: Metabug: Inefficient sub-select SQL in LP causes performance issues <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/705582 >
[19:36] <pcjc2> Not much chat in here at the moment - wrong time-zone, or is there a conference or something
[19:38] <maxb> The canonical folks are all still at their sprint, IIRC
[19:40] <pcjc2> ah, that would explain their absence
[19:52] <pcjc2> I just found this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/239
[19:52] <pcjc2> That video mockup is pretty amazing - is that the shape of things to come?
[19:52] <pcjc2> (I realise the post is old)
[20:00] <spiv> pcjc2: adding nice ajax-y stuff to improve usability?  Yes
[20:01] <lifeless> pcjc2: hi :) want to see more crazy sql ?
[20:11] <vanguard> is a subselect something that performs another select based on every single result from the first query?
[20:12] <lifeless> thats a correlated subquery
[20:12] <lifeless> a subselect is a form of subquery
[20:13] <lifeless> whether its correlated or not depends on whether it depends on any variables in the containing query
[20:30] <pcjc2> hi lifeless - fire away with the SQL
[20:30] <pcjc2> I'm not promising I'll fix them all - just felt bad for not filing the bugs after I discovered those other cases
[20:31] <pcjc2> I'm thumb-twiddling whilst I wait for our project's "maintainer" / founder to get on and test my LP update robot scripts no his server.
[20:31] <pcjc2> Absentee landlord is no fun - and he's the only one with root / admin access on that server
[20:33]  * pcjc2 is like a child with ADHD demanding constant attention - likes feedback soon, does not like waiting 2 or more days to test the code he's just finished writing
[20:34] <lifeless> pcjc2: :)
[20:35] <pcjc2> The video here.. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/239
[20:35] <lifeless> bug 705224 was entertaininy
[20:35] <_mup_> Bug #705224: Distribution:EntryResource:searchTasks timeout <dba> <regression> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by lifeless> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/705224 >
[20:35] <pcjc2> was that a "live" mockup witih real AJAX, or heavily edited?
[20:36] <pcjc2> was the regression in bug 705224  related to my recent change to fix the timeout searching for -* tags?
[20:36] <_mup_> Bug #705224: Distribution:EntryResource:searchTasks timeout <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by lifeless> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/705224 >
[20:36] <lifeless> I think it was a manual mockup
[20:36] <lifeless> certainly we don't have that yet
[20:37] <lifeless> pcjc2: it was related yes, thats why I mention it to you :)
[20:38] <pcjc2> I'll take a look
[20:38] <lifeless> pcjc2: the relation is that the UNIONs before used to be a single query over the tags
[20:38] <lifeless> pcjc2: oh, its fixed.
[20:38] <lifeless> pcjc2: but sure, have a look at the fix if you're interested
[20:38] <pcjc2> I did wonder if we ought to be combining the multiple tag queries inside the WHERE clause
[20:45] <allenap> rvb: me!
[20:46] <rvb> allnap: same name on lp?
[20:51] <pcjc2> lifeless - are tags gauranteed unique?
[20:52] <pcjc2> if so, "might" be able to optimise the all tags case too, abusing count
[20:53] <pcjc2> (SELECT COUNT(*) FROM (SELECT TRUE FROM BugTag WHERE BugTag.bug = Bug.id AND BugTag.tag IN ('foo', 'bar', 'baz')) = 3)
[20:54] <pcjc2> assuming the input tags are all distinct (could write some python to ensure that if necessary), the query should return an equal number of rows to the number of tags we asked for IFF all those tags exist
[20:55] <pcjc2> question is... would this "hack" / creative use of SQL give any useful speed-up for any real-world queries being seen?
[21:00] <pcjc2> I presume that if this was a regression - the DB engine was doing a better job of merging the uncorrelated UNION subqueries
[21:06] <rvb> allenap: I'm browsing through trivial bugs. Many of them look like they've been fixed already ... can you check this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/298288 to make sure I'm not completely wrong about this?
[21:06] <_mup_> Bug #298288: Feature Request: PPA file display should allow sort by header <lp-soyuz> <ppa> <trivial> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/298288 >
[21:07] <allenap> rvb: Yeah. Do you want to mark it Invalid?
[21:09] <rvb> allenap: I'll do it
[21:10] <rvb> allenap: and to a few others bugs as well
[21:11] <allenap> rvb: Cool :)
[21:11] <pcjc2> http://people.canonical.com/~jkakar/storm/storm.sqlobject.SQLObjectBase.html#selectOne
[21:11] <pcjc2> Undocumented
[21:11] <pcjc2> What kind of SQL fragment does selectOne expect? (Or what kind of query would it expand to?) *** (checks storm sources)
[21:12] <wgrant> pcjc2: You should ideally not use selectOne, since that's part of the legacy SQLObject compat layer.
[21:12] <wgrant> grep around for '.one()'
[21:12] <wgrant> That's the new Storm Way®
[21:12] <pcjc2> not new code - I was just looking to see if I could identify an SQL optimisation
[21:12] <bigjools> depends on what type of result set he's got
[21:13] <bigjools> consistency FTW
[21:13] <pcjc2>        job = CodeImportJob.selectOne(
[21:13] <pcjc2>             """id IN (SELECT id FROM CodeImportJob
[21:13] <pcjc2>                WHERE date_due <= %s AND state = %s
[21:13] <pcjc2>                ORDER BY requesting_user IS NULL, date_due
[21:13] <pcjc2>                LIMIT 1)"""
[21:13] <wgrant> bigjools: .selectOne is a method on a SQLObject class.
[21:13] <wgrant> Not a resultset.
[21:14]  * bigjools needs more coffee
[21:14] <pcjc2> The question in theory - is whether that expands to something which gets correlated against for lots of rows
[21:14] <wgrant> .... huh?
[21:14] <wgrant> Does that make any sense?
[21:14] <wgrant> id IN (SELECT id ...)
[21:15] <pcjc2> given that line of code... does it produce a horribly inefficient query, as was the cause for bug 501945
[21:15] <wgrant> I'd use this:
[21:15] <pcjc2> I wasn't convinced it would do anything other than return TRUE or FALSE
[21:15] <pcjc2> which seemed like an odd kind of thing to pass to a method which allegedly selects one result
[21:16] <pcjc2> lp/code/model/codeimportjob.py line 134
[21:16] <pcjc2> It happened to be the first on my list of suspicious SQL things I found and noted in Bug #705582
[21:16] <wgrant> job = IStore(CodeImportJob).find(CodeImportJob.date_due <= whatever, CodeImportJob.state == whatever).order_by(Desc(CodeImportJob.requesting_user), CodeImportJob.date_due).first()
[21:16] <_mup_> Bug #705582: Metabug: Inefficient sub-select SQL in LP causes performance issues <Launchpad itself:Invalid> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/705582 >
[21:17] <pcjc2> I'm going to file bugs for all cases where I can determine some better SQL, but without being able to link these to real issues people are seeing, change for the sake of change seems like regression potential
[21:18] <pcjc2> IStore is part of storm?
[21:18] <lifeless> pcjc2: perhaps; we're not seeing timeouts on the 'all' case atm
[21:18] <lifeless> pcjc2: we have -very- good feedback on slow queries, so I'm kindof inclined to change broken things only.
[21:19] <pcjc2> sounds fair enough
[21:19] <lifeless> that siad, CIJ had some issues
[21:19] <pcjc2> Any matchup between the ones I noted and the hit-list of bad SQL?
[21:20] <lifeless> and that select seems a workaround for separation between clause and results
[21:20] <pcjc2> That code-import fragment I posted has me confused to what it even does
[21:21] <pcjc2> id IN (...) should evaluate to TRUE or FALSE, right?
[21:21] <lifeless> it acts as a where clause that sqlobject will use reasonably
[21:21] <lifeless> yes
[21:21] <lifeless> pcjc2: or NULL perhaps, I'd need to check.
[21:21] <pcjc2> job = CodeImportJob.selectOne(<something which evaluates to TRUE or FALSE>) seems like an odd bit of code to run
[21:22] <wgrant> pcjc2: It selects the single row that matches the condition.
[21:22] <lifeless> yeah, its odd because of an old layer we're migrating from
[21:22] <pcjc2> so it is a WHERE clause gragment?
[21:22] <pcjc2> fragment, sorry
[21:23] <lifeless> its a where clause
[21:23] <pcjc2> SELECT ... WHERE id IN (...)
[21:23] <lifeless> sqlobject is magic and special
[21:25] <pcjc2> so it could be "CodeImportJob.id = id AND date_due <= %s AND state = %s ORDER BY requesting_user IS NULL, due_date LIMIT 1"
[21:25] <lifeless>  no
[21:25] <lifeless> not with sqlobject
[21:25] <lifeless> needs to be stormified
[21:25] <pcjc2> is sqlobject pretending to execute SQL on something which is not in the DB?
[21:27] <lifeless> no, its pretending not to execute sql
[21:27] <lifeless> its a complex story
[21:27] <lifeless> best thing is to move to Store.find(CIJ, ....) instead
[21:27] <lifeless> with .one()
[21:28] <pcjc2> I doubt I can do anything truly useful here, but I will file a bug for someone with area-knowledge to triage
[21:28] <pcjc2> I don't think code-import is something I'll be able to test very easily locally
[21:29] <lifeless> so that doesn't look like a bug
[21:29] <lifeless> its oddly written
[21:29] <lifeless> but should be fast
[21:29] <lifeless> why do you think its a bug?
[21:29] <wgrant> lifeless: It's actually .first(), not .one(), I think. But it's spelt as a selectOne with a subquery that only matches the first.
[21:30] <lifeless> meh, yes.
[21:35] <StevenK> lifeless: Like pcjc2 is saying, he is following a pattern that a badly-written subselect was causing timeouts, so maybe others do the same.
[21:36] <pcjc2> all depends on row count really - bugtags is probably a very high count table, at about 700k rows
[21:36] <lifeless> StevenK: thanks; I meant why does he think *this* one is a problem.
[21:36] <huwshimi> deryck: Available when you're ready
[21:36] <StevenK> I suspect it just happens to be the first one on the list.
[21:36] <lifeless> pcjc2: this query is already constrained though: note that the query is looking for next thing due
[21:36] <lifeless> its answerable from index.
[21:36] <deryck> huwshimi, ah, cool.  give me 5 minutes to wrap and we can.
[21:37] <deryck> huwshimi, shall I come to you or you to me?
[21:37] <pcjc2> yes, just first on list - it seemed odd, and I still can't quite map what SQL it ends up executing
[21:37] <pcjc2> you are right though - work from known timeouts, rather than poking at supposed problems
[21:38] <huwshimi> deryck: Great. I can come to you. Everyone is working quietly here so lets not disturb them :)
[21:38] <pcjc2> IStore, etc.. is Storm?
[21:38] <deryck> huwshimi, ok, first room on left going down left-side hallway.
[21:38] <huwshimi> deryck: ok see you soon
[21:41] <pcjc2> Hmm - example from storm docs:
[21:41] <pcjc2> store.find(Person, Person.name == u"Joe") and store.find(Person, name=u"Joe")
[21:42] <pcjc2> Seems like unholy magic to me
[21:42] <pcjc2> 'Person.name == u"Joe"' is somehow passed as argument, not evaluated immediately to give True / False?
[21:46] <StevenK> It is passed as an argument and Storm intreprets it
[21:47] <leonardr> thumper, the javascript side of things is in lib/canonical/launchpad/icing/build/bugs/bugtask_index.js and it's pretty hairy
[21:48] <jelmer> lifeless: resubmitted.
[21:50] <huwshimi> deryck: Just held up here for a bit, will be over soon
[21:51] <pcjc2> StevenK, I need to go read up more on Python... the fact it is somehow an argument and not evaluated before the call is magical to me
[21:51] <deryck> huwshimi, no worries
[21:51] <pcjc2> does it have anything to do with lazy evaluation?
[21:53] <mwhudson> pcjc2: the implementation of the == operator doesn't have to return true or false...
[21:53] <pcjc2> ah - so it IS evil magic going on ;)
[21:53] <pcjc2> And presumably the "Person" object in the example is typed such that the == operator has a specific implementation?
[21:57] <StevenK> It's likely done via SQLObject *and* Storm so that both implement __eq__
[21:57] <pcjc2> I'm reading the code, and I'm still non the wiser how it works
[21:58]  * StevenK is fairly ignorant of Storm internals
[21:58] <pcjc2> NM though.. it will keep me entertained trying to learn how.. Evil evil magic is still my best guess
[21:58] <pcjc2> Is it a design choice to go more ORM style, and less explicit SQL queries?
[21:59] <lifeless> jelmer: thanks
[21:59] <lifeless> pcjc2: operator overloading
[22:00] <lifeless> pcjc2: yes, its evil
[22:00] <pcjc2> It seems pretty evil
[22:00] <lifeless> ORM is a bit of a mistake; late evaluation leads to death-by-single-row-retrieval
[22:00] <pcjc2> I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I has decided it is a good idea though
[22:00] <lifeless> long term goal is a mapping layer that answers service-point entire answers
[22:01] <pcjc2> service-point is for example, http://lp.net/project/+bugs  ?
[22:01] <lifeless> a search page, sure
[22:02] <pcjc2> launchpadlib API is a "sort" of ORM type affair?
[22:02] <pcjc2> I found that very intuitive to work with
[22:03] <lifeless> sort of yes
[22:03] <lifeless> its why its so slow ;P
[22:04] <pcjc2> can't have everything I guess
[22:04] <pcjc2> When people are not so busy sprinting, I'd love to have a chat about various ideas
[22:05] <pcjc2> Mostly feature-request stuff, but the kind most usefully bounced of other people before just filing a bug titled "wouldn't this be nice..."
[22:05] <lifeless> sure
[22:05] <lifeless> anytime is good
[22:05] <pcjc2> I was thinking that LP might usefully grow a "person" type object for automatons / robots
[22:06] <pcjc2> (I've been writing one recently, so it is in my mind)
[22:06] <pcjc2> They would be owned by a person or team, but delegate contact via that team - not requiring their own Email address or OpenID login / whatever
[22:07] <pcjc2> IE.. a way to auth against LP for API use which doesn't require setting up a pretend person to do it
[22:08] <allenap> jtv: From the API, a list of Bugzilla trackers can be obtained with: [bt for bt in root.bug_trackers if bt.bug_tracker_type == 'Bugzilla']
[22:08] <pcjc2> Have also been thinking about controls to navigate collections of bug search results from within the bug page. UI still going through my head though
[22:08] <dobey> pjdc: you could call the object IRobot
[22:09] <pcjc2> might be a TM on that one
[22:10] <lifeless> so, in page refresh is definitely already desired
[22:10] <dobey> what would be awesome is a way to use the API with basaic auth
[22:10] <dobey> basic even
[22:10] <dobey> or digest anyway
[22:10] <lifeless> I have extremely mixed feelings about that
[22:10] <pcjc2> https://launchpad.net/~gpleda-launchpad-robot
[22:11] <pcjc2> The fact that the robot is a person doesn't map well to our usage
[22:11] <pcjc2> It needs to get subscribed to security bugs so it can close them
[22:11] <pcjc2> but I _dont_ want it to get bugmail
[22:11] <dobey> i don't want *me* to get bugmail
[22:11] <pcjc2> that too ;)
[22:12] <lifeless> ok
[22:12] <pcjc2> I understand that is a WIP regarding bugmail granularity though
[22:12] <lifeless> so we have an answer for this already
[22:12] <lifeless> yeah
[22:12] <lifeless> its well advance
[22:12] <lifeless> if you ask gary_poster nicely you may be able to be in the alpha
[22:12] <pcjc2> ok, will do
[22:13] <dobey> lifeless: what reservations re: basic/digest auth?
[22:13] <lifeless> dobey: well, we use ssl so on that front its fine
[22:13] <lifeless> handshaking with canonical-identity-provider / other openid environments is darn tricky.
[22:14] <pcjc2> In page refresh would be awesome - I was thinking about remembering the "view" or "search query" / whatever, you were doing when you clicked on the bug, and giving "Next" "Prev" controls
[22:14] <lifeless> in terms of standards... there are none
[22:14] <lifeless> pcjc2: that would be awesome too
[22:14] <pcjc2> In page update when people comment (reverse AJAX push) would be amazing, but perhaps a corner case
[22:14] <dobey> yeah i know, which is why doing oauth is so horribly painful
[22:15] <dobey> i guess that launchpad isn't exactly the openid provider any more though, so basic/digest auth is trickier now
[22:16] <pcjc2> OpenID seems like a nice proposition
[22:17] <dobey> openid/oauth are solutions looking for a problem
[22:17] <pcjc2> if it were my server / wiki, I would re-write the auth for our project's wiki to link to user's LP OpenIDs
[22:17] <pcjc2> We could tie the permissions to team membership on LP
[22:17] <mwhudson> teams in openid are some launchpad specific extension though aren't they?
[22:17] <mwhudson> which is a bit of a shame
[22:18] <pcjc2> I'll admit I don't fully understand OpenID,
[22:18] <pcjc2> I looked at oauth, and it seemed a vaguely sensible way for an API to authenticate
[22:19] <dobey> i just don't want to have to authenticate my browser twice
[22:20] <leonardr> dobey: can you be more specific about "authenticate my browser twice"?
[22:21] <pcjc2> I assume dobey is talking about having to login to the SSO / login.launchpad.net, and then auth launchpad.net to those credentials
[22:21] <lifeless> dobey: right, we no longer maintain an authentication db
[22:21] <dobey> leonardr: i want to make an extension for my browser that uses lp api to do certain things when viewing certain launchpad pages, and having to authenticate that separately is weird
[22:22] <pcjc2> weird, but IMO necessary
[22:22] <dobey> i don't think it's necessary
[22:22] <dobey> it is however, cumbersome and painful
[22:22] <leonardr> dobey: if you're in the browser, you can use the same-domain version of the web service that the ajax application uses, which will carry over the browser's authentication
[22:23] <leonardr> but it depends on how close your code is to the browser
[22:23] <dobey> leonardr: if i'm in the browser, or "if i'm in the JS" ?
[22:23] <leonardr> dobey: if you have access to the Cookie header being sent by the browser
[22:23] <dobey> by "extension" i mean "c, python, similar"
[22:24] <dobey> leonardr: so i can just re-use the sessionid cookie to talk to the api?
[22:24] <leonardr> dobey: that's what the web browser does
[22:25] <dobey> leonardr: so i can pass that cookie through launchpadlib?
[22:25] <leonardr> no
[22:25] <dobey> :(
[22:26] <leonardr> but that's what allows the browser to make these requests
[22:26] <leonardr> we could add that functionality but it would immediately be abused by everyone who's not writing a browser extension
[22:27] <leonardr> and it would have all sorts of bad edge cases surrounding logout
[22:27] <dobey> i really do not want to reimplement launchpadlib :(
[22:28] <leonardr> dobey: does it make you feel better to know that in natty, all desktop-wide apps will use the same oauth authorization?
[22:28] <dobey> no
[22:29] <leonardr> dobey: do you understand my position?
[22:29] <pcjc2> How will they share that auth token? DBus or something?
[22:29] <pcjc2> gnome-keyring-manager?
[22:29] <leonardr> pcjc2: keyring-manager by default
[22:30] <dobey> ubuntu-sso-client
[22:30] <dobey> which is per-app, not per-target
[22:30] <dobey> but anyway
[22:32] <dobey> leonardr: i understand what you're saying, but i don't think it's a particularly strong argument for doing it the way it's currently done. it wouldn't really take much more effort to abuse the browser stuff as it is, it seems. although it's tedious enough that i might not bother with it myself
[22:32] <dobey> brb
[22:33] <leonardr> dobey: "tedious enough that i might not bother with it myself" is the only hurdle i need to clear
[22:34] <mrevell> huwshimi, with reference to bug 263652, you rock
[22:34] <_mup_> Bug #263652: {i} and other icon codes no longer work on help wiki <Launchpad Help Wiki Moin theme:Fix Committed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/263652 >
[22:36] <dobey> leonardr: yes, but everyone isn't an old bitter and jaded developer like me :)
[22:36] <leonardr> dobey: i just need to stop this code from getting into supported ubuntu packages
[22:37] <leonardr> dobey: i think you can implement Cookie: passing pretty easily by overriding some methods in Launchpad
[22:37] <leonardr> and implementing your own Http subclass
[22:38] <dobey> leonardr: i don't want to touch javascript
[22:38] <leonardr> i mean the Launchpad class of launchpadlib
[22:38] <dobey> ah ok
[22:39] <leonardr> if this is code for yourself then that's fine, but if you want to put it into ubuntu we will have to reach some other compromise
[22:43] <dobey> i'm writing a browser, and would like to keep everything contained within it
[22:46] <leonardr> dobey: if you're writing the whole browser, you should be able to intercept launchpadlib's webbrowser.open call and open that page in your already-authenticated browser, avoiding the second authentication
[22:47] <leonardr> does that make any sense?
[22:48] <dobey> slightly
[22:49] <leonardr> dobey: i have absolutely no problem helping you with this, if this is the way you want to go
[22:50] <dobey> i'm a long way from that point still, but it will require a lot more thought
[22:51] <huwshimi> mrevell: Yeah no problems. Still needs to be pushed live at some stage
[22:52] <leonardr> dobey: ok, ping me. i think we can get a solution that makes us both happy
[22:53] <dobey> ok
[22:53] <dobey> cheers for now
[23:32] <bigjools> lifeless: allenap just did an experiment with TAL to see if that macro re-evaluation was true, and it doesn't seem to re-eval if it's an int at least.  Maybe it's only for complex objects.


[00:02] <huayra> jtaylor, won't :)
[00:02] <huayra> I do have a USB key in case it blows up in my face
[00:03] <huayra> and /home is on its own partition since the end of the 90s ;)
[00:16] <huayra> 'sed -i 's/saucy/trusty/g' /etc/apt/sources.list' + dpkg/apt magic did the trick...
[00:16] <huayra> updating now
[00:30] <bekks> Update started ... - that does not mean it will finish without breaking your box.
[00:30] <bekks> Thats called "unsupported".
[00:32] <huayra> bekks, I know... I used to test upgrading the init from a debian-edu (venus) to debian stable (on cds)
[00:33] <huayra> I still don't know what I am doing, but I am good at troubleshooting my own setup
[00:33] <huayra> yes, the init... parallel init. way before even upstart was designed :)
[00:33] <huayra> good times!
[00:34] <bekks> Whatever.
[01:06] <huayra> done... let's see if it restarts
[01:06] <huayra> Thanks for your help
[02:08] <diegoviola> hi
[02:09] <diegoviola> is ubuntu switching to systemd?
[02:09] <rww> diegoviola: yes
[02:09] <diegoviola> cool
[02:09] <rww> not for 14.04 though
[02:09] <diegoviola> great decision
[02:09] <diegoviola> i've been using systemd on other distros and it rocks
[02:09] <rww> i agree :)
[02:09] <diegoviola> it's incredibly fast and reliable
[02:11] <diegoviola> i'm also happy that i can now expect things to act in a consistent way across distributions, things like systemctl start sshd, systemctl status sshd, etc
[02:11] <diegoviola> i can see those things making life easier
[02:12] <rww> *nod* I've used systemd on Debian and it works just fine, so I'm hoping Ubuntu doesn't need that much work to switch :)
[02:12] <diegoviola> cool... yeah :)
[02:13] <diegoviola> nice
[02:13] <diegoviola> exciting times
[02:18] <diegoviola> now that ubuntu will be adopting systemd, will canonical also contribute code to it?
[02:18] <rww> no idea. probably a bit early for definite details like that :)
[02:18] <diegoviola> yeah i see
[02:19] <diegoviola> it would be nice if they do though
[02:21] <diegoviola> anyway... i'm really happy about this, it has surprised me big time today when i heard of it
[02:21] <diegoviola> :)
[02:24] <rww> Me too. I'm happy that the current Canonical folks have been very professional about it all too. Could easily have been another dramafest :)
[02:26] <diegoviola> right
[02:26] <diegoviola> :)
[02:26] <diegoviola> indeed
[02:31] <fathin> o/
[02:32] <diegoviola> it's nice to see less egos clashing in the Free Software world, I'd like to see more people working together rather than  infighting drama, etc :)
[02:33] <fathin> mhm
[02:34] <fathin> btw will tahr really released in gnome?
[02:36] <rww> fathin: can you rephrase the question? i'm having trouble with it
[02:37] <fathin> will tahr released in gnome environment and not unity?
[02:37] <ianorlin> there is an ubuntu gnome flavor that releases gnome
[02:37] <ianorlin> and the main ubuntu that releases unity
[02:38] <fathin> well i downloaded daily build of 14.04 and it is in gnome.
[02:38] <fathin> weird
[02:38] <rww> what's the name of the file you downloaded?
[02:38] <fathin> wait
[02:38] <fathin> lemme check
[02:40] <fathin> trusty-desktop-i386.iso
[02:41] <rww> odd, that's the right iso
[02:41] <fathin> or someone misplaced it?
[02:42] <fathin> i downloaded the torrent ones
[02:45] <Beldar> fathin, look famliar? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/daily-live/current/
[02:45] <fathin> mhm
[02:45] <fathin> that one,
[02:46] <fathin> but 3 days ago
[02:46] <fathin> 3 main dl i think
[02:47] <Beldar> appears to be the gnome download this is the unity is my guess. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[02:48] <rww> oh, there isn't a "gnome" somewhere in the ubuntu gnome ISO filenames? that's obnoxious
[02:48] <fathin> that's the problem
[02:49] <Beldar> both iso's are a different size, same dates same names, loil
[02:50]  * rww asks #ubuntu-gnome about it
[02:56] <fathin> err. but i was sure it was exactly http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ since i saw the red text about oversized and stuff
[02:57] <fathin> nvm i think it was my fault for not reading fully to begin with
[04:06] <fathin> ahh found the prob.
[04:07] <fathin> the main have no .torrent download
[04:07] <fathin> so i downloaded the wrong one coz torrent keyword at my search
[12:07] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:23] <FernandoMiguel> hey BluesKaj
[12:24] <BluesKaj> Hi FernandoMiguel, LTNS
[12:24] <FernandoMiguel> true
[12:24] <BluesKaj> assume you've been busy
[12:28] <FernandoMiguel> or just not coming around here much
[12:30] <BluesKaj> where do you usually hang out on irc?
[12:35] <FernandoMiguel> BluesKaj: android #s, ubuntu #s, and a portuguese network
[12:36]  * BluesKaj nods
[12:57] <belgianguy> Hi, will 14.04 ship with upstart or systemd?
[12:58] <mamarley> Upstart
[12:58] <belgianguy> ah, k, and is there a merge window planned?
[13:02] <FernandoMiguel> belgianguy: only after debian does it thing
[13:02] <FernandoMiguel> after that we should merge it ... and when found *as* stable, make it default
[13:02] <FernandoMiguel> based on Mark's words
[13:04] <belgianguy> thanks FernandoMiguel
[15:41] <pietro10> well I now have more data on my fonts issue: if there's a fonts.conf file in my .config/fontconfig, then all programs display fonts incorrectly, not just GTK+ programs - this happened in the past, but at least now deleting fonts.conf fixes the KDE programs (which didn't happen before) - lack of fonts.conf, however, does not fix the GTK+ programs from rendering fonts incorrectly... Does KDE not use fontconfig by default or something?
[15:53] <pietro10> actually, here's a picture; not sure why I didn't make one before - http://imgur.com/dyfjNcz left: GTK; right: KDE - I'm considering the GTK+ ones wrong
[22:24] <u-foka> Hy, does anyone know how to enable the tray icon of skype on trusty amd64?
[22:50] <ikonia> u-foka: maybe try in #ubuntu, this channel is for 14.04
[22:50] <penguin42> trusty is 14.04 isn't it?
[22:50] <ikonia> is it ?
[22:50] <bekks> yes
[22:50] <ikonia> oops, sorry
[22:51] <ikonia> my fault, got my alphabet wrong
[22:53] <u-foka> :D
[22:54] <ikonia> u-foka: sorry about that
[22:54] <rww> lol ikonia
[22:55] <rww> this is the downside of half of the IRC Team using Debian
[22:55] <u-foka> ikonia, np :)


 have been poking tests for a couple of days, and hopefully by the time the beta freeze block is removed Qt should be ready to migrate
 Thank you!