[05:51] <twb> Is there a GTK d-i for Ubuntu at all?
[09:28] <ring> cjwatson, we copied the live system to hardisk , after that we need to update the grub but by using the command "update-grub" its updating the menu.lst of the current partition ,it is not fetching the previous installed partition
[09:28] <ring> cjwatson, how to resolve this problem
[09:29] <twb> Any idea why hands.com uses "preseed_fetch /classes/late_script" but Gutsy's d-i seems to get confused unless I provide a full URL (including protocol)?
[09:48] <ring> please tell me the answer for my quetion
[18:14] <BagOfMostlyWater> Hello, is this the right place to ask a kickstart question?


[02:46] <cjwatson> ScottK: The transition tracker's a good deal easier to follow for this.  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/libav10.html
[02:47] <ScottK> cjwatson: Can you tell why nepomuk-core shows up as bad?  AFAICT, it's OK (and has been rebuilt)
[02:47] <ScottK> Thanks
[02:48] <cjwatson> ScottK: That's I think the one false positive on the tracker, yes.
[02:48] <ScottK> OK.
[02:51] <cjwatson> ScottK: It's because there's a binary in utopic that's no longer built in utopic-proposed - nepomuk-core-ffmpegextractor
[02:51] <cjwatson> ScottK: proposed-migration recognises that that will go away, but the tracker doesn't
[02:52] <ScottK> I see.
[02:53] <cjwatson> Everything else there makes sense.  I have most of the dvdstyler fix.
[02:53] <ScottK> As far as I can tell between libav, cups, and gnutls there's no way for us to get an updated desktop in right now.
[02:53] <cjwatson> And I was going to stare at opencv/arm64 ASAP (and mpv/ppc64el once I can get the hw I have access to to talk to ports.ubuntu.com again).
[02:53] <ScottK> Fun.
[02:54]  * ScottK needs to go find a wayard $child, so see you later.
[02:54] <cjwatson> Yeah, it's a gnarly transition.  There'll be a couple of things at the end we can remove/demote.
[02:54] <cjwatson> But I want to save that until the rest is done.
[03:59] <infinity> cjwatson: opencv looks like it just needs an s/ifneq/ifeq/ logic inversion.
[03:59] <infinity> cjwatson: Are you already playing with it, or shall I?
[04:07] <infinity> cjwatson: Test-building on am1 now.
[04:35] <rsalveti> can we unblock latest pulseaudio I pushed a few minutes ago? changes are touch specific (new pulseaudio droid module, that works on top of the audio hal)
[04:36] <rsalveti> built finished fine and tests were also good, just blocked now due freeze
[04:57] <ScottK> rsalveti: That lands on all the images.
[04:57] <rsalveti> ScottK: I know, that's why I'm asking if it'd be possible to approve it
[04:58] <ScottK> Sigh.
[04:58] <ScottK> So we should respin all the images so your thing doesn't sit in proposed for a day and a half?
[04:59] <rsalveti> did we already spin all the images? (sorry if I'm not following the release as usual here)
[04:59] <rsalveti> that's why I asked here, fine if not approved as well
[04:59] <rsalveti> doesn't hurt asking though
[04:59] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:59] <ScottK> We have candidate images.
[04:59] <ScottK> Not too much tested yet, but they're there.
[05:00] <ScottK> rsalveti: Are you doing much with pulseaudio?  I think we will need http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/commit/?id=2b85ae048970b7faa7505fd0cd4746541d1b09eb (although not for Alpha 1)
[05:01] <rsalveti> that seems fine, want me to push that?
[06:29] <hyperair> N.B. The ykpersonalize command will by default include -oappend-cr.  This will append CRLF (or typing ENTER) to the OTP, so that the dialog or web form is immediately submitted. If you do not want to have the form submitted after touching your Yubikey (e.g. a Nano sitting in your laptop), leave out the -oappend-cr switch.
[06:29] <hyperair> crap middle click
[06:29] <hyperair> whoops
[08:32] <shadeslayer> mmm
[08:32] <shadeslayer> Kubuntu still has 6 packages from 4.13.0 on the ISO
[08:32] <shadeslayer> stgraber: ^^
[09:18] <cjwatson> infinity: not as yet, had gone to bed
[09:19] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, done now.
[09:19] <cjwatson> Thanks
[09:28] <xnox> vtk6 FTBFS on armhf is interesting - GL believes that GLdouble is double, yet Qt4 believes GLdouble is GLfloat.
[09:29] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/FTBFS#OpenGL_and_Qt_combination and the one below
[09:29] <cjwatson> it's quite a common pattern
[09:34] <xnox> right. and also not a regression from upload that's in release already. bah.
[09:48] <infinity> cjwatson: That's the thing that was fixed in the infamous Qt5.2 ABI break, right?
[09:48] <cjwatson> AIUI
[09:49] <infinity> So, now we wait 5 years for everyone to port to Qt5, and we're saved.
[09:49] <shadeslayer> anyone have a clue what the heck "Back" is http://imgur.com/X5wBZGf
[09:50] <infinity> shadeslayer: If I had to guess, I'd say a bug. :)
[09:50] <shadeslayer> ^_^
[09:51] <shadeslayer> infinity: what would I report that against btw?
[09:52] <infinity> gfxboot-something?  cjwatson knows that bit better than I.
[09:53] <xnox> shadeslayer: infinity: well the bug is in new syslinux & the temporary fix we placed to get gfxboot working at all. I believe to many menus are now included by default hence "Back..." and "Help..." options which have not been there before.
[09:53] <shadeslayer> xnox: OEM mode is missing too
[09:53] <xnox> it's better that, than not having graphical boot at all.
[09:53] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/1334189
[09:53] <cjwatson> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[09:53] <xnox> shadeslayer: i don't think it's a bug against syslinux though...
[09:54] <cjwatson> I did a quick fix last week, haven't yet had time to tidy up everything that's left
[09:54] <shadeslayer> ok, I've changed the affects
[09:54] <cjwatson> Is it critical for alpha 1?
[09:55] <infinity> I wouldn't imagine so.
[09:55] <infinity> Unless Kubuntu's really stepping up their Alpha 1 requirements.
[09:55] <xnox> shadeslayer: you should be able to still boot in OEM mode by manually typing the right cmdline arg...
[09:55] <shadeslayer> Hm, nope, should be fine, just better have it documented then
[09:55] <infinity> I think ours used to be "it boots, installs, and your computer doesn't set itself on fire and dive out the window".
[09:55] <shadeslayer> xnox: yeah
[09:55] <shadeslayer> infinity: words to live by
[09:55] <shadeslayer> :P
[09:56] <cjwatson> Well mostly I just wanted to know how rapidly I was dropping everything to investigate it :)
[09:56] <cjwatson> It's probably not too hard to fix but would be a respin-world
[09:57] <cjwatson> Now admittedly I'm sort of looking forward to finding out how fast we can do that now, but maybe shouldn't do it just 'cause :)
[09:57]  * shadeslayer points out that Kubuntu is even oversized at the moment
[09:57] <cjwatson> Meh
[09:57] <cjwatson> The size limits are artificial now anyway :-/
[09:57] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: hah, because of the new build infra ? :D
[09:57] <cjwatson> Right
[09:57] <shadeslayer> true :)
[09:58] <cjwatson> It's probably doable inside two hours, depending on buildd load
[10:02] <cjwatson> I'm working on the problems that cause occasional livefs failed-to-upload errors, BTW
[10:02] <cjwatson> They aren't new (they happen from time to time on package builds too) but the rate is high enough with livefses to be worth sorting out
[10:04] <infinity> cjwatson: Rate's pretty low with packages.  Perhaps relating to filesizes/timeouts?
[10:05] <shadeslayer> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1334199
[10:05]  * shadeslayer tries with other languages
[10:06] <cjwatson> infinity: Probably, yes.  We've seen three so far with livefses, which is high considering the build count.
[10:06] <cjwatson> infinity: But it's easy for the librarian client to retry.
[10:27] <xnox> uploaded libavg, zoneminder, mediatomb. Also uploaded gnome-media-player the last package to transition from xine-lib -> xine-lib-1.2, such that xine-lib can be removed from the archive.
[10:27] <xnox> fixed visp is in debian new.
[10:32] <cjwatson> xnox: what's wrong with the visp no-change rebuild I just uploaded? :)
[10:32] <xnox> cjwatson: haha =)
[10:33] <xnox> if that works, then we are golden
[10:33] <xnox> what's left? performous, dvdstyler, mpv/ppc64el, jitsi, mplayer?
[10:33] <cjwatson> ah, rockne-06 can talk to ports.ubuntu.com now, so I might have a look at mpv
[10:34] <cjwatson> I have dvdstyler in progress, mostly done, just need a bit more time to finish it
[10:34] <infinity> cjwatson: porter-ppc64el no good?
[10:34] <cjwatson> infinity: didn't want to potentially pollute its one chroot with -proposed
[10:34] <infinity> cjwatson: Too late for that, all the porters have proposed enabled.
[10:34] <cjwatson> ah, well, shrug
[10:34] <infinity> But man, need to find a round tuit to mangle dd-schroot stuff for our porters.
[10:38] <xnox> Ampelbein: can you please merge jitsi? or should I look into it?
[10:39] <Ampelbein> xnox: Please do it, I sadly don't have time currently.
[10:39] <xnox> Ampelbein: ok, thanks.
[10:41] <cjwatson> infinity: Does https://launchpadlibrarian.net/178169679/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-ppc64el.mpv_0.3.11-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz imply that __APPLE_ALTIVEC__ is just broken on ppc64el?  It's causing bool to be defined to an altivec thing that apparently doesn't support being passed to the ! operator, which seems kind of busted
[10:43] <ScottK> shadeslayer: The 4.13.2 stuff that isn't on the ISO is stuck behind other packages that there's no way to get migrated without violence to the archive.
[10:43] <ScottK> You've got all you're going to get for Alpha 1.
[10:43] <shadeslayer> ack
[10:43] <infinity> cjwatson: Without looking, I'd have assumed that it implies an endian issue in disguise, but disabling Altivec and making IBM fix it is usually the simple way forward. :P
[10:43] <shadeslayer> all proposed migration output said was it was due to the migration block
[10:44] <shadeslayer> so I don't know why it really didn't migrate
[10:44] <ScottK> It was all blocked in britney before the block was in place.
[10:45] <shadeslayer> ScottK: right, but why? :)
[10:45] <infinity> cjwatson: The following angry errors with "bool" and "int" in the same sentence sort of point to endian issues, since turning ints into bools and then flipping them backwards explodes spectacularly.
[10:46] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Mostly due to the libav transition, but other not easily fixable stuff.
[10:46] <xnox> cjwatson: i've yet to see altivec work on ppc64el. All codes that i've tried, even with patches from ibm folks didn't not compile, or didn't link, or had further ELFv2 dislikes.
[10:46] <infinity> xnox: We have lots of altivec working on ppc64el.
[10:46] <ScottK> Trust me, I fixed everything that was this week fixable yesterday.
[10:46] <shadeslayer> aha
[10:46] <cjwatson> infinity: wouldn't those be runtime errors?
[10:47] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, not the incompat type error.  But yeah, the exclamation mark one is definitely a new one on me too. ;)
[10:48] <cjwatson> I don't *think* it's endianness, it basically seems to be using BYTE_ORDER
[10:48]  * infinity grabs the source.
[10:49] <infinity> cjwatson: Where is this bool->altivec definition you speak of?
[10:50] <cjwatson> infinity: /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc64le-linux-gnu/4.8/include/altivec.h
[10:50] <xnox> infinity: hm, yeah looks like most things got fixed that i was stumbling upon.
[10:50] <xnox> e.g. libav is build with altivec now, et.al.
[10:50] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh!
[10:50] <cjwatson> At least I think that's what it is; can't see what else would be inventing __vector __bool int
[11:00] <shadeslayer> ScottK: do we still want to release the Active ISO's
[11:06] <cjwatson> infinity: -mno-altivec does make it build, so let me know if you think I should just do that ...
[11:06] <infinity> cjwatson: Go ahead.  I'm trying to figure out the weirdness here with a simple testcase, but my simple testcase might be too simple. :P
[11:07] <xnox> Ampelbein: jitsi uploaded.
[11:09] <infinity> cjwatson: Obviously something nastier at play here than just the altivec/bool combo, since this works fine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7699872/
[11:09] <cjwatson> infinity: Right, maybe try with SDL
[11:09] <cjwatson> (uploaded)
[11:11] <infinity> cjwatson: Although, suspiciously, the disassembly of building that with or without altivec is the same.
[11:11]  * infinity scratches his head and thinks this isn't a rathole he should dive down right now.
[11:14] <cjwatson> Oh, I see why vtk6 is showing up on the tracker.  Disentangling.
[11:18] <cjwatson> (libvtk6 -> libvtk6.1 sub-transition, not cleared out of -proposed)
[12:09] <cjwatson> dvdstyler fixed for libav 10 et al.  Judging from the Debian bug we'll probably end up demoting performous.
[12:13] <cjwatson> mplayer's been removed from Debian, and mplayer2 Provides: mplayer, but we'll need to do something about the dependencies on mencoder
[12:16] <infinity> cjwatson: A provides isn't good enough to force upgrades either.  Does mplayer2 not give me a transitional package?
[12:18] <cjwatson> infinity: haven't checked, don't think so though
[12:18] <infinity> cjwatson: Right, we'll want to fix that, I guess.
[12:18] <cjwatson> I've taken to using mpv myself, but ...
[12:19] <infinity> I use mplayer.  I wonder how much worse mplayer2 is.  I guess I'll find out really soon. :/
[12:19] <infinity> I seriously wish this ffmpeg/libav battle of egos could be resolved.
[12:21] <infinity> cjwatson: There's a d-i for you.  I reviewed your minimal changes in bzr, and they seem fine to me, if you want to review the rest.
[12:22] <cjwatson> I assume the trusty stuff is mostly copy-and-pasted
[12:23] <infinity> cjwatson: Some 'find | xargs sed $saucy > $trusty' sort of action, yeah.
[12:23] <cjwatson> done
[12:23] <infinity> (The actual shell was hideous, we'll just pretend the above covers it)
[12:25] <xnox> bug #1334262
[12:25] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm.  precise isn't building with PROPOSED=1 ... Is that because it's still broken, or because no one turned it on?
[12:26] <infinity> (Noted because I was trying to sort out if I should change the seeds or not, and I guess the answer is 'not')
[12:26] <cjwatson> infinity: It sure is
[12:26] <cjwatson> I turned it on yesterday
[12:26] <cjwatson> We might not have had a full build cycle yet
[12:27] <infinity> Err, wait.  I re-learn this every point release, I think.  It's in a config file, not in crontab, isn't it? :P
[12:27] <cjwatson> It's in cdimage/etc/config, yes
[12:27] <infinity> Yeah, just found it with greppery.
[12:27] <infinity> I don't know why I forget that every time.
[12:27] <cjwatson> Worked better there than in crontab, in practice, but it used to be in the crontab
[12:28] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeahp, makes more sense in a conffile, I'm just really crap at learning new tricks (says the man who still types -rfakeroot)
[12:28] <cjwatson> :)
[12:31] <infinity> cjwatson: Of course, I probably should have testbuilt that before I uploaded.  Want to take bets on if it'll fail on image size constraints or something?
[12:31] <cjwatson> Pass :)
[12:32] <infinity> wget-udeb surely adds a bit too.  I guess I'll play my favourite video game (watching build logs) and see. :P
[12:34] <cjwatson> One of these days maybe I'll convert build logs to longpoll
[12:35] <cjwatson> Although the "how many tabs can you have longpoll in" game might need to be fixed first ...
[12:35] <cjwatson> (Which is a bit hard for me)
[13:01] <ScottK> shadeslayer: No idea.
[13:05] <shadeslayer> ScottK: kdelibs uploaded with security fix for trusty
[13:19] <cjwatson> xine-lib removed
[13:33] <stgraber> shadeslayer: not sure what you want me to do ...
[13:52] <infinity> cjwatson: You should have taken the bet.
[13:52] <infinity> mcopy -i./tmp/trusty-netboot/boot.img ./tmp/trusty-netboot/initrd.gz ::initrd.gz
[13:52] <infinity> Disk full
[13:52] <infinity> And I should have test-built, obviously.  *sigh*
[13:54] <cjwatson> libavg will be synced; performous should be demoted to -proposed once we're otherwise ready; vtk6 sorted; nepomuk-core false positive; so it's just sorting out mplayer now, I think
[13:54] <infinity> cjwatson: I'll fix and actually test-build this time.
[13:54] <cjwatson> ta
[14:17] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm.  Should we be concerned about the python traceback vomit from help-to-gfxboot.py in those build logs?
[14:17] <cjwatson> Slightly but not hugely.
[14:18] <cjwatson> Translation breakage, but it should tolerate it.
[14:18] <infinity> Oh, I guess it's been happening pretty much forever.
[14:18] <cjwatson> Yeah
[14:32] <cjwatson> Ah, my NBS removals have caused vtk6 and wxsvg to show up across the board on the libav10 tracker now.  They're both false positives for the same reason as nepomuk-core.
[15:25] <infinity> cjwatson: Fixed d-i in the queue.
[15:29] <infinity> -rw-rw-r-- 1 adconrad adconrad 1.7G Jun 25 09:24 debian-installer-images_20101020ubuntu136.19_amd64.tar.gz
[15:29] <infinity> That's getting impressively large. :/
[16:34] <infinity> slangasek: Want to review that 2-line debian-installer fix in the precise queue?
[16:35] <cjwatson> infinity: I'll do it in a moment, sorry
[16:36] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, thanks.  Wasn't sure if you'd disappeared for the day.
[16:36] <cjwatson> No, just some calls


[12:04] <mdke> ok sure
[12:04] <mdke> i'll do it now, thanks littlepaul
[12:04] <mdke> you subscribed to -doc?
[12:05] <littlepaul> great
[12:05] <littlepaul> not yet :)
[12:06] <littlepaul> mdke, but http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc.mbox/ubuntu-doc.mbox is in my evolution
[12:06] <mdke> ah great
[12:07] <mhz> re
[12:07] <littlepaul> wb mhz
[12:08] <mhz> LaserJock: good idea. Actually I had some doubts if people would like the idea so asking in the ML's is nice.
[12:08] <mhz> littlepaul: thx :)
[12:08] <mdke> i'll write something up
[12:09] <littlepaul> mdke, thx
[12:11] <littlepaul> mdke, is it possible to organize such a "brainstorming" session on the ml; the involved people could give useful hints about the school idea
[12:11] <mdke> yes
[12:12] <mdke> littlepaul, what is your real name?
[12:12] <littlepaul> Andreas Brunner
[12:13] <mdke> thanks
[12:13] <mdke> are you the same as ompaul?
[12:13] <littlepaul> no
[12:14] <mdke> :)
[12:14] <littlepaul> just littlepaul, a potential ubuntu-doc-school pupil
[12:15] <mdke> :D
[12:16] <mdke> would you envisage the school idea to be (a) a general talk about how the docteam is organised and how to get involved, or (b) a specific talk about the tools, or (c) both
[12:17] <littlepaul> both; but for the first session the answer fits to a :)
[12:18] <littlepaul> you could naturally make report regarding a and start with directly with b
[12:19] <mdke> heh
[12:19] <mdke> i'm not convinced we'd be very good at (b)
[12:19] <mdke> it's kinda learn-as-you-go
[12:20] <littlepaul> sure...
[12:23] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm starting to wonder if it would be possible to set up some kind of common framework for these -school type ideas
[12:23] <mdke> hehe
[12:23] <LaserJock> I think they are nice for people wanting to contribute
[12:24] <littlepaul> LaserJock, could you specifiy your thought?
[12:29] <mdke> ok posted
[12:29] <LaserJock> well, if there is going to be stuff like doc-school and motu-school maybe there is enough commonality that they could share some stuff. For instance, maybe make a wiki page that has places for people to sign up to "teach" classes or maybe what people want to see. Maybe a common calendar and it would be good to try to maybe work on some of the communication tools, etc. Then people interested in contributing to Ubuntu can g
[12:30] <mdke> LaserJock, we saw up to "contributing to Ubuntu can g"
[12:31] <LaserJock> ...go to a central place and then see what's going on.
[12:31] <LaserJock> sorry
[12:31] <mdke> np
[12:31] <mdke> you have to take a breath :)
[12:31] <littlepaul> LaserJock, mdke thx for your interest :)
[12:31] <LaserJock> I mean, what is hard for many people wanting to contribute is to really see at a glance what is going on and where things are taking place
[12:32] <littlepaul> the common framework could be moodle :)
[12:32] <LaserJock> littlepaul: well, I helped with motu-school so I think the idea is good. The only thing I see is that MOTU is much bigger
[12:34] <LaserJock> littlepaul: I've never heard of moodle, it looks really cool. That is kinda what I was thinking about
[12:34] <littlepaul> LaserJock, moodle is maby someday in edubuntu
[12:35] <mdke> LaserJock, ubuntu.com/community/participate?
[12:36] <littlepaul> LaserJock, I think that ubuntu has some important columns; some of this columns: motu and doc; because motu is big there is a need to enhance also doc :)
[12:37] <LaserJock> mdke: right, I think that we need to launch from ubuntu.com/community/participate to how to get involved in those areas, what is currently going on, how to get trained, etc.
[12:38] <mdke> sure
[12:38] <mdke> the wiki is an obvious place
[12:38] <littlepaul> all this steps conduct someday to the ubuntu certification (lpi++) program
[12:39] <LaserJock> something like moodle would be really nice, but I think it would be quite some work.
[12:41] <littlepaul> LaserJock, "moodle" could evolve to something important like "launchpad/melone" for the community - in one year or so :)
[12:42] <LaserJock> littlepaul: sure, just need to get sabdfl to crack the whip ;-)
[12:43] <littlepaul> hehe
[12:45] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: the advantage to putting all in moodle is that the work would really only need to be done oncwe
[12:46] <littlepaul> Burglaptop, good point
[12:46] <LaserJock> right, that is very very important
[12:47] <LaserJock> I have been helping people learn to package and I have to go over the same stuff over and over
[12:49] <mdke> what is moodle?
[12:49] <LaserJock> mdke: www.moodle.org
[12:49] <mdke> nm, checking website
[12:50] <Burglaptop> mdke: it is education and python
[12:50] <LaserJock> it's in Ubuntu
[12:50] <Burglaptop> mdke: sabfdl drools over it
[12:50] <mdke> i can immagine
[12:50] <littlepaul> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportMoodle
[12:52] <Burglaptop> sorry, moodle is php but early versions were python
[12:52] <Madpilot> whois Madpilot
[12:53] <Madpilot> bleh... /me is not paying attention, and can't type...
[12:53] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: a bloody hell, my nick is unregged, just a sec
[12:53] <LaserJock> I would think you would know ;-)
[12:53] <Madpilot> LaserJock: was trying to remember what a regged nick looked like vs an unregged one :)
[12:53] <LaserJock> lol
[12:57] <LaserJock> I wonder how hard it would be to get moodle going for these -schools
[12:57] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: you need to get php past elmo
[12:59] <Burglaptop> bloody xchat-gnome
[12:59] <LaserJock> hmm, seems like it's hard to get anything past elmo ;-)
[12:59] <Madpilot> elmo is PHP-phobic?
[12:59] <Burglaptop> any sane sys admin is php phobic
[01:03] <LaserJock> hmm, well are there any moodle alternatives?
[01:04] <mdke> the wiki?
[01:04] <LaserJock> probably, at least to begin with
[01:07] <littlepaul> LaserJock, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_learning_environment
[01:09] <LaserJock> littlepaul: cool, thanks. lots there
[01:10] <littlepaul> http://www.edutools.info/course/compare/byproduct/index.jsp nice comparison site :)
[01:13] <littlepaul> gtgn, thx for talking :)
[01:19] <LaserJock> hmm, there are some none PHP moodle-like apps
[01:20] <Burglaptop> none with the market share and developers than moodle has behind it
[01:21] <jsgotangco> hey ho
[01:22] <Burglaptop> salut jsgotangco
[01:25] <LaserJock> ok, well I gotta go but I might have to think about this moodle idea
[01:26] <jsgotangco> hey Burglaptop how's work and life?
[01:27] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: not bad
[01:30] <mhz> LaserJock: I got back from tea time and read your posts on schools.. I agree with you
[01:30] <mhz> Burglaptop: Moodle is very good
[01:31] <mhz> Burglaptop: but you can also make Moin very good for learning instances
[01:31] <jsgotangco> mhz, blah :)
[01:31] <mhz> after all, the importance is focused on Content rather than a tool
[01:32] <mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, it's true. moin is already there and we use maybe 60% of its potential only
[01:32] <mhz> and we don't have to worry about php sec. issues
[01:33] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:33] <LaserJock> hmm, well maybe I should give some thought to what the best way to help potential Ubuntu contributors learn what they need to get plugged into various teams
[01:33] <jsgotangco> i'd still go the moodle route though, its well established already on this regard
[01:34] <jsgotangco> It *Just Works* (TM)
[01:34] <mhz> yup, Moodle is very good. Also, we could use eXeLearning
[01:34] <mhz> integration
[01:34] <mhz> OR, we could use InterWiki feature to 'sync' content on diff Wiki servers
[01:35] <mhz> and maybe even include the WikiLearn concept
[06:06] <theCore> LaserJock, hi
[06:07] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[06:08] <theCore> the yelp fix is awsome :-)
[06:08] <theCore> do you know about it ?
[06:09] <LaserJock> wich one?
[06:09] <theCore> the <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"> one
[06:10] <LaserJock> theCore: I saw it, I haven't tried it out yet
[06:10] <LaserJock> I just got yelp to not segfault on me
[06:10] <theCore> lol
[06:11] <theCore> sudo gedit /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/common/db-{title,xref,label}.xsl
[06:11] <theCore> then remove the <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"> line
[06:11] <theCore> and yelp will be speed up by 200%
[06:12] <LaserJock> ok, just a sec. I gotta load up my vnc connection
[06:16] <LaserJock> hmm, that is nice
[06:17] <theCore> there's no need for shipping html, with that fix
[06:17] <jsgotangco> yes
[06:19] <theCore> except maybe for having a search tool
[06:19] <jsgotangco> we get printing though
[06:19] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:19] <LaserJock> well, search is coming for yelp isn't it?
[06:19] <theCore> jsgotangco, that true
[06:19] <theCore> :)
[06:20] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, there is no upstream patch for such at the moment, just printing and yelp speedups
[06:20] <jsgotangco> speeding up yelp alone is a major breakthrough
[06:21] <LaserJock> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/shaunm/2005/12/16/0 says that 2.14 will do search
[06:22] <jsgotangco> previous versions had some simple search
[06:23] <jsgotangco> at least we can say the itch was addressed due to something that doesn't work in ubuntu
[06:24] <LaserJock> lol
[06:34] <LaserJock> mhz: got done with the dishes?
[06:34] <mhz> yup
[06:34] <mhz> everything here is manual
[06:34] <mhz> :)
[06:35] <LaserJock> yeah, I am lucky to have a dish washer
[06:35] <LaserJock> although it is so crappy I sometimes wonder if I should do it by hand
[06:36] <mhz> we couldnt use dish wahser in my family. AFAIK, they consume too much energy and we -humans- need to save energy :)
[06:36] <jsgotangco> it doesn't clean as well compared to doing it by yourself unless you are a very crappy washer from the start :)
[06:36] <mhz> lol!
[06:36] <Madpilot> I wait until the counter vanishes, then do dishes... :P
[06:36] <jsgotangco> Palmolive and a sponge is all you need heh
[06:36] <mhz> indeed
[06:37] <LaserJock> Madpilot: I would do that but my wife doesn't agree ;-)
[06:37] <mhz> we should have ubuntu-housekeepers
[06:37] <LaserJock> lol
[06:37] <Madpilot> I'm actually trying to breed self-washing dishes, so all that stuff on the counter is actually experiments, not a mess! :P
[06:37] <LaserJock> I'm sure we could arrange a mailing list ;-)
[06:37] <mhz> LaserJock: we can cry there
[06:38] <mhz> happily
[06:38] <mhz> and jsgotangco could recommend some creams and stuff
[06:38] <jsgotangco> hah
[06:38] <mhz> for hands
[06:38] <jsgotangco> its not like i do it everyday :P
[06:38] <LaserJock> I just wish housekeeping could be a cron job
[06:38] <mhz> oh
[06:38] <mhz> lol
[06:38] <mhz> LaserJock: if it were a cron job we'd be scrwed
[06:39] <jsgotangco> oh well we're bordering already to offtopic anyways
[06:39] <mhz> on a second thought... I think i dont have a cron for housekeeping but i do have a daemon running after me, chasing me... my-wife
[06:39] <LaserJock> have any of you seen Mark's talk at debconf 5?
[06:40] <LaserJock> mhz: I agree
[06:40] <mhz> LaserJock: i bet
[06:41] <LaserJock> I just watched the .mpeg of his talk and I think it should be required or something for ubuntu-user subscribers
[06:42] <Madpilot> LaserJock: link for that?
[06:42] <mhz> please
[06:43] <Madpilot> meh... two days until the next CC meeting, and they **still** haven't fixed a time for it...
[06:44] <LaserJock> a direct link is http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2005/debconf5/mpeg/2005-07-14/02-Ubuntu_Talk-Mark_Shuttleworth.mpeg but it is over 100 MB
[06:44] <LaserJock> or 200MB I mean
[06:44] <Madpilot> broadband is wonderful :)
[06:44] <LaserJock> oh, yeah. I download 4 talks
[06:44] <LaserJock> Mark's was the longest though
[06:44] <LaserJock> 1hr11min I think
[06:45] <mhz> Madpilot: what if time were rotating 3 hours every meeting?
[06:45] <LaserJock> but it seems to me that a lot of the arguments on ubuntu-users and elsewhere would be greatly reduced if people just watched his presentation
[06:46] <Madpilot> mhz: not sure what you mean?
[06:46] <mhz> let's say last meeting was 12 UTC, then next meeting should be 15 UTC
[06:46] <mhz> and so on
[06:46] <Madpilot> ah, OK
[06:47] <Madpilot> I think it would just confuse people, to be honest :)
[06:47] <mhz> so, we'd know already
[06:47] <LaserJock> mhz: I don't think that would happen because the CC wouldn't care to get up that early
[06:47] <mhz> hehehehe
[06:47] <Madpilot> or stay up that late...
[06:47] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: what time (local) is 1700Z, btw?
[06:49] <theCore> LaserJock , lol it's a mepg video, isn't ubuntu should use free formats?
[06:49] <LaserJock> oh, there is oggtheora too
[06:49] <LaserJock> but I'm on Windows right now so I got the .mpeg
[06:49] <theCore> LaserJock, feeew
[06:49] <LaserJock> http://wiki.debian.org/?DebConf5Talks is the page that has all the links though
[06:50] <mhz> indeed
[06:50] <mhz> I loved the logo!
[06:51] <Madpilot> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2005/debconf5/ogg_theora/368x288/2005-07-14/
[06:51] <Madpilot> ogg videos there ^^^
[06:51] <theCore> i had already found it, but thanks
[06:58] <theCore> LaserJock, Package Management ? hmm, i must get that video too
[07:00] <LaserJock> Mark talks about how packaging over time really is like branches in a revision control system. He was talking about the possibility of running the packaging using baz or something to that effect
[07:00] <LaserJock> I suspect that might be what this talk is about but I don't know
[07:01] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, that's 3am on my side and probably around 5am on rob's
[07:02] <jsgotangco> oh wait that's only 2am
[07:03] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: yeah, I just figured that out - sorry, for some reason I was thinking 1700Z was only about midnight in your part of the globe!
[07:03] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, you can always refer to timeanddate anyways =)
[07:04] <jsgotangco> i could tolerate such meetings till 2am i guess but it'll be much harder for those in au
[07:06] <Madpilot> so even the 1400Z meetings start at 2300 local for you, right?
[07:06] <jsgotangco> right
[07:06] <jsgotangco> thats still early for me
[07:10] <theCore> Mark seem nervous on that video ...
[07:11] <LaserJock> well, it is a Debian conference. There are still quite a few people that don't really appreciate Ubuntu.
[07:12] <theCore> lol, that's true
[07:12] <mhz> 'just quite a few' :D
[07:39] <theCore> good night, all!
[07:39] <jsgotangco> night
[08:30] <Madpilot> interesting - Mark did seem a bit jumpy all thru that talk at debconf...
[08:39] <LaserJock> Madpilot: have you seen other talks by him?
[08:40] <Madpilot> some short videos from UBZ
[08:41] <Madpilot> not sure if they're still available somewhere, but he's noticably more relaxed in the UBZ stuff
[08:41] <LaserJock> oh, I have never seen any other talk by him so I didn't notice it much
[01:47] <littlepaul> a thought about all the logfiles (people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ and http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2005/) arround. I think there is much unused potential. A webfrontend that searches through this logfiles would help to  raise the relevance of the included content
[08:10] <mdke> blimey it is heavy stuff
[08:11] <LaserJock> what is heavy?
[08:12] <mdke> the incessant long posts about anally retentive subjects
[08:12] <Burglaptop> welcome to a sign of a maturing community
[08:13] <mdke> _maturing_?
[08:13] <Burglaptop> we have lots of people and some of them like to listen to themselves post
[08:14] <mdke> some of the posts are pretty interesting, others are just a pita
[08:16] <Burglaptop> sweet, daf is back
[08:37] <LaserJock> man, I just don't understand what they are even arguing about, if they are
[08:41] <mdke> no, as burg says, just loving the sound of their own voice
[08:45] <Burglaptop> I used to be really bad for that fault, so I have a good idea how to spot it
[08:45] <mdke> lol
[08:48] <Burglaptop> if you listen to Madpilot, I still am
[08:50] <mdke> where is Rob these days?
[08:50] <mdke> >_<
[08:59] <jjesse> afternoon :)
[09:00] <LaserJock> hello
[09:00] <LaserJock> jjesse: you run KDE, right?
[09:00] <jjesse> yup
[09:00] <LaserJock> cool, I'm doing irc from Konversation right now
[09:00] <jjesse> both breezy and dapper
[09:00] <jjesse> version of kubuntu
[09:01] <LaserJock> I thought I would take the plunge and try KDE out
[09:01] <LaserJock> on Ubuntu at least
[09:01] <jjesse> its a lot better then gnome :P
[09:01] <LaserJock> I used to use it on SuSE and Gentoo
[09:01] <Burglaptop> jjesse: arguable
[09:01] <Burglaptop> I am going stircrazy stuck in this house
[09:01] <jjesse> Burglaptop: i know i was being sarcastic
[09:01] <jjesse> Burglaptop: to each thier own
[09:02] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: how long do you have to be there?
[09:02] <LaserJock> I tried Kubuntu once in Hoary and it didn't seem that great
[09:02] <jjesse> alot of chnages have taken place
[09:02] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: until I recover, several days at least
[09:03] <Burglaptop> jjesse: NO, everybody much use the one true desktop! ICEWM!!!
[09:03] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: well, I hope you recover quickly
[09:03] <jjesse> one desktop to rule them all...
[09:03] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: arrgghhh, I hate ICEWM
[09:03] <LaserJock> only FVWM
[09:03] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: it is going well, but the operation took 45 minutes in what should have been 10
[09:03] <LaserJock> or maybe Openbox for the light hearted
[09:04] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: that's no good. My mom had surgery on Friday. She will be recovering over our Christmas vacation
[09:05] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: ouch. Thanks to the powers of the neighbours internet and Canonical's laptop, I can continue to do work while stuck here
[09:06] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: are the Canonical laptops good? I have heard about them but I don't know the specs.
[09:06] <mdke> every on is different
[09:07] <mdke> on/one*
[09:07] <mdke> otherwise there would be no point testing em ;)
[09:07] <LaserJock> yeah, but do the spend lots of money on them or are they cheapos
[09:07] <LaserJock> I just wondered. It is a cool idea
[09:08] <mdke> varies i guess
[09:08] <mdke> see LaptopTestingTeam on the wiki
[09:08] <LaserJock> My wife has a laptop but I don't think she would like me putting Ubuntu on it.
[09:09] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: mine is a low-end business model
[09:09] <mdke> sure she would :)
[09:10] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: it is not that hard. Simply find out what annoys her about using the computer and then match the features of Ubuntu to that "pain". That is the value you can sell
[09:11] <Burglaptop> either that or break her XP install
[09:11] <Burglaptop> that worked for Madpilot
[09:11] <mdke> mine lappy is nice /me hugs laptop
[09:12] <Burglaptop> other than the battery life (1.5 hours), mine is great too
[09:13] <LaserJock> I think the problem is that I would be taking over her laptop too much. ;-)
[09:13] <LaserJock> "Honey, I just need to test one more thing and then you can surf Ebay."
[09:14] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: I would handle that objection by saying you will need to do less work on the laptop overall
[09:14] <Burglaptop> less to make it Just Work, that is
[09:15] <LaserJock> I think it would be better for me to go with, " I need to buy a new laptop so that I don't take over yours all the time"
[09:15] <mdke> i find Ubuntu a lot more productive than windows
[09:15] <LaserJock> mdke: I certainly don't, I just spend all my time doing Ubuntu work and not real work ;-)
[09:15] <LaserJock> but that's my problem
[09:17] <LaserJock> and now my one Ubuntu box at work is going to be replaced with an iMac so it will be interesting to see how much I will be able to test stuff.
[09:17] <jjesse> LaserJock: dual booting is easy to setup, then one day jsut forget to boot back to windows and see if she complains :)
[09:17] <mdke> stick Ubuntu on that too
[09:18] <LaserJock> mdke: not that easy. I need quite a bit of software for my reasearch that is only on Mac or Windows :(
[09:18] <mdke> change research
[09:18] <LaserJock> lol
[09:18] <jjesse> LaserJock: i'm in the same position as you
[09:18] <jjesse> need a lot of windows only software at work
[09:19] <LaserJock> I'm 4 years into my PhD. I don't think I'm going to abandon it for Ubuntu. I will definately still be working, I just need to move some stuff around
[09:19] <LaserJock> I think I will set up my Ubuntu box at home and then ssh and vnc to it from the iMac
[09:21] <LaserJock> We just need Ubuntu to take over the science field and then it will be better.
[09:22] <mdke> what software is it that is the blocker?
[09:22] <LaserJock> Right now a lot of people are moving from Windows to OSX. I  hope they will then move from OSX to Ubuntu ;-)
[09:22] <LaserJock> mdke: usually data collection and analysis. For me at least
[09:23] <mdke> why haven't the geeks written linux versions?
[09:23] <LaserJock> mdke: because we are doing research not programming
[09:23] <mdke> brb
[09:24] <LaserJock> I think that is the essential problem. Scientist might be willing to write a program for there specific need but it is usually not very good for general use
[09:25] <LaserJock> as Helen Faulkner said at Debconf5 many linux developers think that scientist should be allowed to write programs :-)
[09:25] <LaserJock> s/should/shouldn't/
[09:27] <LaserJock> part of the problem I suppose is also that science is generally well funded
[09:28] <LaserJock> my boss has no problem dropping $300/person on data analysis software
[09:29] <LaserJock> even though he his a dedicated linux user (couldn't use Windows to save his life) he find OSX to be easier and more productive for him.
[09:30] <LaserJock> of course the most recent linux experience he had was with Fedora Core 1 running FVWM so ...
[09:35] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: I feel sorry for him
[09:36] <LaserJock> I do too, but now he thinks OSX is wonderful because he can do the linux things that he was used to but also run MS Office, etc.
[09:39] <Burglaptop> OS X is both our greatest blessing and our greatest curse
[09:39] <LaserJock> I agree
[09:41] <Burglaptop> hmm, the beeb article is wrong about the IE stuff
[09:41] <Burglaptop> they state that 1 in 10 websites don't work with FF, but forget to mention that some of those websites only work on IE on windows, not on Mac
[09:48] <mgalvin> dang, ok enough, ubuntu under attack -> trash
[09:48] <Burglaptop> ugh, lack of namespaces in our wiki pisses me off, again
[09:48] <mgalvin> gesh
[09:50] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: how so?
[09:52] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: very hard to see what is a doc, what is person, etc.
[09:52] <LaserJock> ahh, I see.
[09:52] <Burglaptop> makes sorting RecentChanges a painful exercise
[09:53] <LaserJock> yes I suppose
[10:09] <bshumate> Burglaptop: did I read you right yesterday, in that you're borrowing your neighbor's WiFi access?  if so, how do you give it back when you're done? ;-)
[10:10] <bshumate> Burglaptop: did you just jump on their open access point then?  i mean do your neighbors know you're using it?
[10:17] <Burglaptop> bshumate: I just jump on their open access point
[10:17] <Burglaptop> and no, they don't know i am using it
[10:19] <jjesse> i can get my neighbors upstairs in the bedroom
[10:20] <Burglaptop> jjesse: I didn't know you had it in you!
[10:22] <jjesse> grin i only do it once in awhile
[10:22] <mdke> all the neighbours here have closed APs
[10:22] <jjesse> have to be in a specfic location
[10:22] <mdke> grrrr
[10:23] <bshumate> isn't that essentially stealing though?  i mean aren't there laws against this kind of thing?
[10:23] <mdke> _sharing_
[10:24] <mdke> it's the open source way
[10:24] <Burglaptop> bshumate: likely but it is pretty harmless theft
[10:26] <mdke> blimey mako needs a search engine on his blog
[10:26] <mdke> http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/reflections/20050730-00.html
[10:26] <theCore> Burglaptop, if the guy, that you suck the internet, has bandwidth limit, it can be harmful to him
[10:26] <bshumate> "harmless theft"?  i tend to think theft is theft. sounds unethical to me.  sharing is more apt to involve both parties knowledge.  i know if you were "sharing" my electricity from my house without my knowledge, I'd sure not be happy about it!
[10:27] <Burglaptop> but in Canada you don't pay by the bit
[10:27] <Burglaptop> you pay a flat cost, ergo I don't cost them anything
[10:28] <theCore> Burglaptop, it debend of your ISP
[10:29] <mdke> bshumate, i'd argue that them leaving the AP open is consent to you using it
[10:29] <bshumate> hmmm... the article doen't seem to make any good points.
[10:29] <mdke> for the pure reason that people need to get smarter
[10:29] <mdke> sure the article makes good points
[10:29] <bshumate> in the case of the access points specifically, both parties should be held accountable....the owner for leaving it open, and the person who uses it without permission.
[10:29] <Burglaptop> theCore: yes, but both Shaw and Telus charge a flat rate up to an extremely high cap
[10:29] <mdke> Every time my Internet connection at home goes down, I take advantage of one my neighbors APs. To balance things out, I make sure I always run an open AP for others out my home.
[10:30] <mdke> doing so is about being a good neighbor
[10:30] <Burglaptop> kamion runs a dual network, an open AP for the world and a closed AP for him
[10:30] <bshumate> mdke: so long as everyone understands that to be the arrangement, then i am fine with that...that *is* sharing
[10:30] <bshumate> but to just take, without the other party's knowledge, is theft really.
[10:31] <mdke> i really don't think it's a big deal
[10:31] <bshumate> interesting nonetheless.
[10:32] <Burglaptop> bshumate: as mdke can tell you, part of the test for theft is how much damage you have cost the person you stole from
[10:32] <mdke> heh
[10:32] <mdke> not in our law :)
[10:32] <mdke> you guys obviously changed it :p
[10:32] <Burglaptop> Canuck law is an odd hybrid of US, UK and French law
[10:33] <bshumate> Burglaptop: so you are stating that morally, it is ok to steal a penny, but not a hundred bucks?
[10:33] <Burglaptop> bshumate: nope
[10:33] <mdke> depends on who you steal if from
[10:33] <bshumate> Burglaptop: but the "damage" is different, is it not?
[10:33] <Burglaptop> bshumate: I am saying that my use doesn't cost them anything and thus does not damage them
[10:33] <mdke> Gates isn't gonna miss it
[10:33] <bshumate> mdke: ohhhhh...
[10:34] <bshumate> mdke: interesting angle / philosophy there. ;-)
[10:34] <Burglaptop> nor do I engage in illegal activities with their connection
[10:34] <mdke> not really
[10:34] <mdke> its a fairly uncontroversial aspect of morally to focus on the damage done to others
[10:34] <bshumate> mdke: it is the classic "Robin Hood" mentality towards theft, actually...
[10:35] <mdke> yes
[10:35] <mdke> as i said, uncontroversial
[10:36] <mdke> everyone agrees that Robin Hood was not an immoral man, except for the leotards
[10:36] <Burglaptop> mdke: the leotards are arguable as well
[10:36] <mdke> LOL
[10:36] <bshumate> mdke: heh heh
[10:36] <mdke> Burglaptop, did you say you had a _girl_friend?
[10:38] <mdke> omg they are still at it on sounder
[10:38] <bshumate> interesting, and enlightening chat, fellows.
[10:38] <Burglaptop> mdke: I do indeed have a girl friend. Madpilot can even verify that
[10:38] <bshumate> what is this sounder business?
[10:38] <mdke> bshumate, a mailing list @lists.ubuntu.com
[10:38] <bshumate> ahhh,
[10:41] <mdke> so Burglaptop
[10:41] <mdke> i started writing a slimmed down about-ubuntu.xml
[10:41] <jjesse> i take it sounder is a high traffic mailing list?
[10:41] <mdke> really short, it looks pretty boring but i might commit it and you can have a go at it
[10:42] <mdke> jjesse, not that high... but it can get painful to read
[10:42] <jjesse> ah i don't need another list like that
[10:42] <Burglaptop> mdke: I can take a look at it, but I have very little concentration right now, due to pain
[10:43] <theCore> sometime there are good tips that show up
[10:43] <mdke> Burglaptop, :( you don't have to look now
[10:43] <theCore> like the one about yelp that mdke sended
[10:43] <mdke> on sounder???
[10:44] <theCore> mdke, the tip about how to speed up yelp
[10:45] <mdke> maybe on -doc?
[10:45] <theCore> yes
[10:47] <Burglaptop> the yelp speedy up stuff is being discussed upstream
[10:49] <mdke> and one of the devs posted it on our list
[10:49] <theCore> Burglaptop, i made the fix on my yelp, it's wonderful how yelp is fast :)
[10:49] <mdke> theCore, really, it works well?
[10:49] <mdke> that is awesome news
[10:49] <theCore> mdke, it's like magic
[10:49] <mdke> Burglaptop, committed
[10:50] <mdke> ok, we may have to abandon the "shipping in html" then
[10:50] <mdke> if we haven't already :)
[10:50] <theCore> but yelp still support for searching and printing
[10:51] <theCore> still need*
[10:51] <mdke> it has printing
[10:51] <mdke> in dapper
[10:51] <theCore> good
[10:51] <mdke> and search, if you use beagle
[10:54] <theCore> mdke, did you fix it on your system?
[10:54] <mdke> not yet
[10:55] <theCore> get it a try
[10:55] <theCore> s/get/give/
[10:55] <theCore> sudo gedit /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/common/db-{title,xref,label}.xsl
[10:55] <theCore> then remove <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"/>
[10:55] <theCore> it's around the 24 line
[10:56] <theCore> it's located*
[10:56] <mdke> ahhhh that is awesome stuff
[10:57] <mdke> but presumably, they'll need to figure out another way to replace whatever it is that gettext.xsl was doing
[11:00] <LaserJock> mdke: I seemed to me that what they said was that the gettext.xsl calls were redundent because is was called elsewhere
[11:01] <bshumate> should call it the "cacophony" list ;-)
[11:01] <mdke> bshumate, you are obviously a masochist :)
[11:01] <mdke> LaserJock, i didn't follow the discussion closely, you might be right
[11:02] <theCore> mdke, gettext.xsl wasn't doing anything in those files ...
[11:03] <bshumate> mdke: naw naw...just fascinated with the sociology of it all really.
[11:03] <mdke> ;)
[11:04] <mdke> it's not always that bad
[11:04] <theCore> macgyver2, the problem was that yelp imported it 4 times
[11:04] <mdke> obviously dapper is gonna be rocket fast in every respect :)
[11:09] <LaserJock> yeah, good response, fast boot, quick help, it should be a great release
[11:10] <mdke> GNOME feels faster to me too
[11:10] <LaserJock> KDE is feeling pretty snappy today for me
[11:11] <mdke> cool
[11:11] <theCore> with such fix there's no need to upgrade my PC ;)
[11:11] <theCore> i will just need to install dapper
[11:11] <LaserJock> theCore: lol, but think how fast it would be with an upgraded computer ;-)
[11:12] <mdke> twice as fast
[11:12] <theCore> LaserJock, yea, but my celeron 533 is doing the job for me
[11:17] <LaserJock> I've got an AMD 1800+ but will be getting a new iMac G5 after Christmas for work
[11:17] <LaserJock> those G5's are pretty fast
[11:17] <theCore> mdke, actually it would be more like 4 or 6 time faster
[11:18] <theCore> LaserJock, least compatible though
[11:18] <LaserJock> theCore: yeah, but I can't do anything about that
[11:20] <LaserJock> have any of you had any experience running Kate in gnome?
[11:20] <theCore> LaserJock, it worked well for me when I was on FreeBSD
[11:21] <LaserJock> unfortunately, I really like Gnome but I really like some  KDE apps
[11:22] <LaserJock> Amarok has worked ok from me in Gnome so far. It takes longer to load but that isn't a big deal
[11:23] <LaserJock> but I also like Kate, Kile, Kontact, Akregator, and Konsole
[11:23] <mdke> what is akregator?
[11:24] <LaserJock> a RSS reader
[11:24] <theCore> ok I gotta go, I'm going to do bike ride outside at -17 degree celsius with 40 centimeter of snow, it's gonna be a fun ride :)
[11:24] <mdke> theCore, good luck!
[11:24] <LaserJock> theCore: stay warm ;-)
[11:44] <LaserJock> hmm, that was a fast 20


[03:08] <aldo> hi all , is there any way to get access to the root directory?
[03:08] <aldo> I want to install VLC skins..
[03:09] <cfhowlett> aldo | sudo cp filename
[03:12] <aldo> ok, thanks,...  is there away to get access via gui
[03:12] <aldo> ??
[03:13] <holstein> gksudo thunar
[03:13] <holstein> or, boot a live CD, use a GUI filemanager...
[03:24] <aldo> I install the GKSU library from the Ubuntu software center then at the terminal || gksu thunar || it launches an access window and open thunar in super user mode
[03:24] <aldo> thanks a lot for the support
[03:25] <cfhowlett> aldo, proceed carefully and have fun
[03:25] <aldo> thanks a lot
[03:25] <aldo> ok
[05:26] <JohnTalent> well?
[05:27] <cfhowlett> JohnTalent, well what?
[15:27] <ilcapocha> hola
[15:28] <ilcapocha> hay alguién ahi?
[15:29] <cfhowlett> !es | ilcapocha,
[15:30] <ilcapocha> gracias!


[00:50] <Ubulette> asac, still there ?
[01:19] <asac> Ubulette: yes
[01:19] <asac> but about to leave
 Ubulette: ok i think we should rename the pkgconfig files :)
[01:21] <Ubulette> I assume you mean revert s/-1.9//
[01:22] <asac> not sure anymore what i meant :) ... i think it was a temporary idea while porting totems build system
[01:22] <asac> but yes, maybe we should drop the version
[01:24] <Ubulette> I wanted to be able to install xul-dev, xul-1.9-dev and maybe xul-1.9.1-dev at the same time but maybe it's not needed/wanted
[01:24] <asac> would be nice ... but versioning those also makes configure.in file bloated
[01:26] <asac> i think its good enough to just support one dev package at the same time
[02:10] <Ubulette> asac, you're doing totem ?
[09:12] <asac> Ubulette: eventually yes .... while writing the migration guide :)
[14:27] <griffinc> asac: ping
[14:33] <asac> griffinc: pon
[14:34] <griffinc> asac: I just wanted to say hi as your new mentee.  :-)
[14:34] <griffinc> I am in ubuntu-motu as well
[14:34] <griffinc> working on a small merge
[14:34] <asac> yeah :) ... a pleasure to meet you
[14:35] <griffinc> nice to meet you too.  thanks for offering to mentor.
[14:35] <asac> lets discuss technical things that are motu related in that channel then ... other chat is good to do here :)
[14:35] <griffinc> sounds good
[15:07] <Ubulette> bug 451905
[15:07] <Ubulette> debian bug 451905
[15:07] <ubotu> Debian bug 451905 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "gst-plugins-base0.10 - FTBFS: /usr/bin/dh_gstscancodecs: gst-inspect-0.10 failed on debian/gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgnomevfs.so: 65280" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/451905
[17:10] <janimo> is xulrunner 1.9 beta 1 planned for gutsy PPA?
[17:14] <asac> janimo: eevn for -security i guess
[17:14] <janimo> cool
[17:14] <janimo> I found the reson of the pyxpcom traceback I was getting with sugar
[17:15] <janimo> if I drop --enable-safe-browsing it no longer appears
[17:15] <janimo> not sure what else breaks though :)
[17:18] <asac> xulrunner? or firefox?
[17:18] <janimo> xulrunner
[17:19] <janimo> it appeared witha python wrapper around it
[17:19] <janimo> that is used in the OLPC interface
[17:20] <janimo> asac: after a debuild -us -uc inside the xulrunner-1.9 dir , debuild clean does not seen to remove all build related files (.o, .so. config)
[17:20] <janimo> known issue?
[20:46] <Ubulette> bluekuja, any progress with seamonkey ?
[20:47] <Ubulette> a new version has been released today :(
[23:39] <Ubulette> asac, did you do <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[23:40] <asac> Ubulette: for hardy we are up to date, dapper is not affected ... the others not yet uploaded, but its just a tiny patch.
[23:43] <Ubulette> really ? i still se <IP_ADDRESS> in hardy
[23:44] <asac> Ubulette: i proactively patched it up :)
[23:44] <asac> unfortunately the supported platforms had already been rolled out
[23:45] <asac> Ubulette: this whole release is about just one line change :)
[23:46] <Ubulette> problem is users just check the version, fell unsafe, go complain everywhere and some build their own and spread that
[23:47] <asac> as long as they spread debs i am not too mcuh concerned
[23:47] <asac> but you are right :)
[23:48] <asac> maybe i just upload hardy
[23:48] <asac> buildd are idle anyway :)
[23:49] <Ubulette> yes
[23:50] <asac> epiphany works now almost perfectly ... only thing that sucks is that password management is broken somehow ... but might as well be an epiphany bug


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[04:35] <Menzador> "hacked" is subjective here :)
[04:35] <Unit193> 'joined'
[04:36] <Menzador> "irc"
[04:40] <mwsb> Little does he know, Australia doesn't actually have any hackers, let alone a #1 hacker.
[04:47] <Menzador> Oh yeah now I realise you're chu
[04:47] <Menzador> for a minute I thought I had someone new to mess with
[04:47]  * Menzador stomps off into the new Atlantis that is his backyard
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[15:23] <acheronuk> r1ck_ = a rick roller it seems
[15:25] <r1ck_> Why did i get a ban?
[15:25] <r1ck_> Hggdh
[15:25] <hggdh> hi stove
[15:25] <r1ck_> Uh?
[15:26] <r1ck_> Im rick
[15:26] <acheronuk> ah
[15:26] <hggdh> and you have been banned for posting, again, YT songs
[15:26] <r1ck_> No didnt
[15:26] <hggdh> do you want to reason with us why?
[15:26] <r1ck_> I posted an image
[15:27] <r1ck_> That shows boot failur
[15:27] <r1ck_> E
[15:27] <hggdh> which suddenly transformed in a song
[15:27] <r1ck_> No
[15:27] <hggdh> but
[15:27] <r1ck_> Impossible
[15:27] <hggdh> r1ck_: then try to see what happened on your side, and then return to chat about it
[15:28] <hggdh> r1ck_: meanwhile, if there is nothing else to talk about, please /part this channel;
[15:28] <r1ck_> I dont have the chat anymore
[15:28] <r1ck_> But im pretty sure i posted my image
[15:29] <hggdh> that's OK. Try to find out how you failed, then return. Meanwhile, you are still banned
[15:29] <r1ck_> No please, #ubuntu is the only way to get help about my error
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[15:30] <r1ck_> Hggdh ^
[15:30] <r1ck_> Without that channel, i will not be able to try ubuntu 18
[15:30] <hggdh> stove: you will get banned her as well
[15:30] <r1ck_> ?
[15:30] <r1ck_> No
[15:30] <r1ck_> I just need help
[15:30] <r1ck_> And im ricl
[15:31] <r1ck_> Rick
[15:32] <hggdh> stove: go now, plese
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[07:08] <dholbach> good morning
[10:35] <probon1> hi all, i'm trying to make an image, but i keep getting errors that HAL is not configured
[10:35] <probon1> is there a known bug?
[10:35] <probon1> this is on hardy
[10:36] <probon1> using the moblin image creator, mccaslin-lpia platform, ubuntu-mobile target
[10:45] <probon1> Setting up hal (0.5.10+git20080301-1ubuntu1) ...
[10:45] <probon1> polkit-auth: This operation requires the system message bus and ConsoleKit to be running
[12:24] <lool> probono: Curious
[12:24] <lool> probono: Could you please file a bug against MIC on launchpad?
[12:24] <lool> It should work
[12:36] <dns53> has anyone tried to install ubuntu-mobile hardy on an eeepc?
[12:57] <probono> lool: i need to experiment more
[12:57] <probono> lool: using the deb from moblin.org, i don't get this problem
[12:58] <lool> probono: What MIC are you using?
[12:58] <probono> is there any way to get full hardware support (as in the Ubuntu live CD) into a moblin image?
[12:58] <lool> Hmm I'd rather approach your goal the other way around: start from a live CD and add -mobile bits
[12:58] <probono> lool: at my 1st attempt, i used the one from hardy. now i'm using the one from moblin.org, on gutsy - this works (created a live usb image)
[12:59] <probono> now when i boot into that, my mouse doesn't work
[12:59] <lool> You're running the moblin MIC package on gutsy targetting hardy?
[12:59] <probono> yes, basically
[12:59] <probono> works w/o errors
[12:59] <lool> That's known not to work then; the problem is between the system dbus of gutsy and the hardy packages installed in the chroot
[12:59] <lool> probono: Run hardy on your host
[13:00] <probono> lool: now i'm getting confused
[13:00] <probono> using hardy as a host, using hardy's mic did *not* work
[13:00] <probono> using gutsy as a host, using moblin.org mic, *did* work
[13:00] <lool> probono: Were you creating hardy based images?
[13:01] <probono> i'm not sure about that, acutally
[13:01] <probono> as i said, i'm new to this
[13:01] <lool> probono: Make sure you wipe your ~/.image-creator and projects between your trials
[13:01] <lool> probono: That's fine, don't worry
[13:01] <probono> also, platforms ilke "mccaslin-lpia" are not exactly self-evident
[13:01] <lool> probono: Oh come on, it means mccalsin on lpia  ;)
[13:01] <probono> isn't there a platform "pc "?
[13:01] <probono> that equals the hardware that a ubuntu live cd assumes?
[13:02] <lool> probono: No, McCaslin is an Intel platform; just like Menlow
[13:02] <lool> probono: You can try running these kernels, but they might not work
[13:02] <probono> i have i945 machines, can't that work?
[13:02] <lool> If you want generic support, you should add generic kernels
[13:02] <probono> i915 also
[13:02] <dns53> what platform works with an eeepc, or should i install ubuntu and the meta package?
[13:02] <lool> Well we're not targetting anything else than mccaslin and menlow ATM
[13:02] <probono> dns53: welcome to the club :-)
[13:02] <lool> Not PCs, not EeePC
[13:03] <probono> dns53: i'm in the same boat
[13:03] <lool> But you're welcome to try running the software
[13:03] <probono> dns53: we should start a pc/eeepc target
[13:03] <probono> lool: yes. it does run, only it doesn't see my mouse (synaptics touchpad)
[13:03] <dns53> well what are the differences in cpu architecture?
[13:03] <probono> which is why i was asking how i can enable full ubuntu standard live cd hardware support
[13:04] <lool> probono: Ubuntu Mobile is currently aimed at touchscreens
[13:04] <probono> lool: i understand that, but i'm lacking the hardware
[13:04] <lool> It's preconfigured for some hardware platforms such as the Q1 Ultra
[13:04] <probono> would like to get my development started w/o buying prerelease hardware
[13:04] <lool> probono: At this point, you're "on your own"  :-/  You will have to revisit things like the missing packages or change the Xorg config
[13:05] <lool> We're not trying to support all hardware in a generic fashion at the moment
[13:05] <lool> probono: You should be able to run apps in Xephyr though and installing standard Ubuntu packages will simply work
[13:05] <probono> lool: would it be hard? (i imagine it would basically involve a set of drivers packages)
[13:05] <lool> probono: If you're large on disk, simply install a regular Ubuntu and add the mobile packages
[13:05] <dns53> well the ubuntu-mobile works on gutsy when you add the missing package
[13:06] <probono> dns53: how would i do that? is there a wiki page on that?
[13:06] <probono> i'd also want my ubuntu to boot directly into mobile, not into gnome
[13:06]  * probono loves the usb-image-generator though
[13:07] <probono> come on, q1 is >1000 EUR
[13:07] <dns53> well just install ubuntu (eeexubuntu in my case) then install ubuntu-mobile, there was a package missing from the dependencies i can't remember what it was m something
[13:08] <probono> dns53: my actual goal would be to have a live cd/usb
[13:09] <dns53> sure, but you can atleast get something working the normal ubuntu way. i did test the image-creator but no targets worked
[13:09] <probono> mccaslin-lpia works, i can see the start screen, just have no mouse
[13:09] <probono> this is on a i945 machine
[13:12] <probono> dns53: after i installed ubuntu-mobile, how do i launch it?
[13:12] <probono> how do i replace gdm with it?
[13:14] <dns53> it should appear as a desktop entry in gdm, you may need to write your own script to launch it yourself and remove gdm
[13:15] <probono> ok, thanks
[13:15] <probono> dns53: does a stock ubuntu live cd work with the eeepc?
[13:16] <probono> uck (ubuntu customization kit) should allow one to remaster a live cd to include ubuntu-mobile, i guess
[13:17] <dns53> well you need to do some hacks to get everything working fine, X has a wrong resolution, madwifi needs to be customised. there are some scripts to add these things to a gutsy install
[15:20] <pat_mcgowan> rustyl_, how do you tell moblin-media to switch between using gstreamer and helix
[16:16] <rustyl_> pat_mcgowan, moblin-media will use the first media service it finds, and it finds the media service via the *.conf files in /usr/share/media-services/
[17:46] <pat_mcgowan> rustyl_, thanks for your earlier response
[18:42] <cwong1> Does anyone out there know anything about how /usr/share/applications/default.list is being created?
[18:51] <bfiller_> mjg59: trying to debug a problem on custom hardware with custom hotkeys. I'm using setkeycodes scancode keycode to map scancode to keycode. After doing so, still not getting keycode when using xev. Any ideas?
[18:51] <bfiller_> mjg59: I noticed you have worked on hotkey-setup package and thought that might help..
[18:51] <mjg59> bfiller_: What keycode are you setting it to?
[18:52] <bfiller_> mjg59: 97
[18:52] <mjg59> Hm. Ok, should be safe.
[18:52] <mjg59> Does evtest show it turning up?
[18:52] <bfiller_> mjg59: I haven't tried that
[18:52] <mjg59> That'd be a good thing to try
[18:52] <bfiller_> mjg59: will do, thanks.
[18:53] <bfiller_> mjg59: also, what startup file should I put my "setkeycodes" command such that they are installed always?
[18:53] <mjg59> Best would be to add to hotkey-setup
[18:54] <bfiller_> mjg59: that can be used regardless of hardware?
[19:10] <lool> cwong1: dpkg -S tells me it's shipped by desktop-file-utils: /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
[19:11] <lool> cwong1: However, it's not checksummed; I'd guess it's updated subsequently when packages are installed; I would suppose update-desktop-database does so
[19:13] <lool> cwong1: Please don't call it directly in your postinst and postrm though, but leave it to dh_desktop to add the magic
[19:42] <mjg59> bfiller_: Yeah, as long as there's dmi information from the platform
[19:42] <mjg59> bfiller_: If not, we'd need to work out something else :)
[20:30] <cwong1> lool: ping
[20:36] <lool> cwong1: pong
[20:36] <lool> cwong1: But do feel free to pack a question along with the ping to allow me to pong with the answer ;)
[20:37] <cwong1> lool: desktop-file-utils is not in the fset in MIC. Should it be?
[20:38] <lool> cwong1: I think we should use the fset concept as little as possible and instead rely on what the ubuntu-mobile package pulls for us; isn't it pulled by some other package?
[20:38] <cwong1> lool: Not that I know of
[20:39] <cwong1> lool: Also, the file default.list that get install when you do apt-get install  desktop-file-utils doesn't really fit our mobile enviroment
[20:43] <cwong1> lool: if desktop-file-utils is being pull in by an ubuntu-mobile package, would it be alright for one of our moblin package like home sreen to install it?
[20:43] <lool> cwong1: What's the problem with it?
[20:43] <cwong1> s/is/is not/
[20:44] <cwong1> lool: some of the mime type pointing to wrong app.
[20:44] <lool> cwong1: Are they pointing to one of the installed apps or an unavailable one?
[20:44] <cwong1> lool:  for example html is pointing to firefox instead of the midbrowser,   media file pointing to totem instead of moblin media player
[20:45] <lool> cwong1: Theoritically, this file should be updated after the installation of desktop-file-utils as its postinst calls update-desktop-database
[20:45] <lool> So the contents of the file should reflect the installed apps and what they declare supporting
[20:45] <lool> If you see mismatches, I'd first start by fixing the list of installed apps or the .desktop files which have been installed
[20:46] <lool> If that's not enough, we can look into overrides
[20:46] <cwong1> lool: so what you are saying is that all packages should do a db_update_desktop during the install, right?
[20:47] <cwong1> s/db_update/desktop/dh_desktop/
[20:47] <lool> cwong1: All packages should call dh_desktop during their *build* and this will make them call update-desktop-database after their installation and removal
[20:47] <lool> cwong1: Well, all "desktop" related packages which ship .desktop files naturally
[20:47] <lool> You don't need your kernel to call that obviously ;)
[20:48] <cwong1> lool: if the default.list file is not there, will updaet-desktop-database create one for you?
[20:48] <lool> cwong1: It should; look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst
[20:48] <lool> Well don't look at that, grep it rather
[20:49] <cwong1> ok.  Thanks for the info.  I will look into it further.
[20:49] <lool> grep -l update-desktop-database /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst
[20:49] <lool> cwong1: These are the snippets inserted by dh_desktop which will cause update-desktop-database -q to be run
[20:59] <cwong1> lool:  looks like if the file default.list is not there, update-desktop-database -q doesn't create one for you.  Any idea?
[21:01] <lool> cwong1: The file should be there as it's shipped by desktop-file-utils
[21:01] <lool> cwong1: dpkg -L desktop-file-utils | grep defaults
[21:03] <cwong1> lool: Yes if only you have install desktop-file-utils, but as I said before I don't think desktop-file-utils is part of the ubuntu-mobile image.  Correct me if I am wrong.
[21:04] <cwong1> cwong1: lool:  at least if it is not part of the image being created by moblin's image creator
[21:04] <cwong1> s/if//
[21:12] <lool> cwong1: Checking
[21:13] <cwong1> lool: k
[21:13] <lool> cwong1: That's probably correct indeed
[21:13] <lool> I only see ubuntu-desktop pulling it
[21:13] <lool> cwong1: As a stop gap measure, add it to your fset
[21:13] <lool> cwong1: The fix is in updating the ubuntu-mobile package
[21:14] <cwong1> lool: ok. so someone from your side will fix this, right?
[21:15] <lool> cwong1: Yes; you're welcome to file a bug
[21:16] <cwong1> lool: ok..  Thanks.
[21:16] <lool> against ubuntu-meta
[21:27] <lool> cwong1: Will be fixed by next ubuntu-meta upload (committed in our tree)