[00:11] <IdleOne> Please keep an eye on ArtArfon. I already warned him about language and attitude. he is also randomly offtopic with his comments
[00:36] <Jordan_U> ArtArfon is trolling in #ubuntu
[00:37] <IdleOne> yup
[00:51] <elky> Gone now?
[01:02] <IdleOne> elky yes
[03:17] <IdleOne> hello ka1ser
[03:18] <IdleOne> how can I help you?
[03:18] <olskolirc> IdleOne: y9ou are being too hard on me
[03:18] <IdleOne> I don't believe I am
[03:19] <IdleOne> you were given a link to the code of conduct and asked to remain on topic. You chose not to
[03:19] <IdleOne> I asked you very nicely to stop, you chose not to.
[03:19] <olskolirc> you unkicked me, when i came in, they were talking about  pronounciations, and i asked my pronounciations question as well how was "I" off topic or trolling when they were already talking about it when I came in and you banned ME
[03:19] <IdleOne> I warned I would ban you if you didn't
[03:20] <olskolirc> You did not warn a ban
 olskolirc: Please stop asking question that are not Ubuntu support related. I am asking really nice here.  I asked you not to continue it.
[03:20] <olskolirc> you didn't ban anyone else im new
[03:21] <olskolirc> and i didn't and the next think i know i was banned
[03:21] <IdleOne> !guidelines
[03:21] <IdleOne> please read that
[03:21] <olskolirc> IdleOne: that doesn't make your decision right all the links in the world doesnt make you right
[03:21] <olskolirc> I didn't do that
[03:21] <olskolirc> maybe you should take on some colored text IdleOne so that you can keep up on your "ubuntu"
[03:22] <IdleOne> colored text?
[03:22] <olskolirc> then you would see that conversation was in place before i came in and asked my question on the already offtopic and then you said stop and then banned me
[03:22] <olskolirc> yes colored text so you can keep up with who said what
[03:22] <IdleOne> I was there reading the whole time
[03:22] <olskolirc> I knew your finger was itching b/c you couldn't stay off of my nick
[03:23] <olskolirc> you banned me b/c you WANTED too
[03:23] <olskolirc> i wasn't doing nothing when i came back
[03:23] <IdleOne> olskolirc: Please come back in 24hrs and we can discuss it then. for now I am not going to remove the ban
[03:23] <olskolirc> good so you know I didn't ask how do you pronouce ubuntu
[03:23] <olskolirc> and everyone commented on it
[03:23] <IdleOne> they did.
[03:23] <olskolirc> when I asked how do you pronounce linux, you said stop and then banned me with NO ban warning
[03:24] <olskolirc> when? AFTER you banned me?
[03:24] <IdleOne> I don't have to warn you
[03:24] <IdleOne> I asked you earlier to stay on topic
[03:24] <IdleOne> you didn't
[03:25] <IdleOne> what others did or didn't do has nothing to do with what you did
[03:25] <olskolirc> i did nothing wrong ive been on irc for 14 years and never got a ban and moreover over a topic that was already being discussed but you blamed me for the offtopic, then lied and accused me of not stopping how do I NOT stop if i have been kicked and banned already
[03:25] <IdleOne> I don't lie
[03:25] <IdleOne> ever
[03:25] <IdleOne> about anything
[03:25] <IdleOne> olskolirc: Please come back in 24hrs and we can discuss it then. for now I am not going to remove the ban
[03:26] <olskolirc> you kicked me, i came back in on a conversation that was already in play, and "offtopic" conversation and asked how do i pronouce linux so long as everyone was talking about how to pronounce ubuntu
[03:26] <olskolirc> see why your channels have the less numbers IdleOne?  I bet its b/c you are around
[03:26] <highvoltage> olskolirc: I'm not familiar with the incident, but IdleOne has been doing this for a while, I suggest you take some time to cool down and come back in 24 hours as he suggest
[03:26] <olskolirc> he did it b/c im a girl highvoltage
[03:26] <IdleOne> olskolirc: #ubuntu is the largest channel on freenode afaik
[03:26] <olskolirc> i tell all my girl friends when you go to irc, don't tell them you are a girl some get their egos in the way
[03:26] <highvoltage> olskolirc: I seriously doubt that
[03:27] <olskolirc> soon as I said im a girl, he steady attacked ME
[03:27] <IdleOne> olskolirc: accusing me of sexism is plain idiotic.
[03:27] <olskolirc> hes been here 4 years big deal
[03:27] <olskolirc> ive been here and have admined many servers for 14
[03:27] <olskolirc> and NEVER got a ban
[03:27] <olskolirc> girl and all
[03:27] <IdleOne> I have admined servers also...your point?
[03:28] <IdleOne> actually it doesn't matter.
[03:28] <IdleOne> olskolirc: Please come back in 24hrs and we can discuss it then. for now I am not going to remove the ban
[03:28] <olskolirc> my point is i never used my @ to bully anyone
[03:28] <olskolirc> thats what YOU do
[03:28] <olskolirc> whatever that means
[03:28] <IdleOne> !appeals
[03:28] <olskolirc> Anderson Cooper is going to do a story on your IdleOne about cyber bullies
[03:28] <IdleOne> if you feel I have abused my @ there is the info you need to contest
[03:29] <olskolirc> and its all logged IdleOne so I don't know what you think you got away with
[03:29] <olskolirc> im going to keep going until you lose your @
[03:29] <highvoltage> olskolirc: good luck with that
[03:29] <persia> olskolirc, The only means for that is to use the appeals method just posted.
[03:30] <persia> Nothing external will affect it in any way.
[03:30] <olskolirc> banned for asking the same offtopic conversation that the room was already talking about and it was just a one liner one question about pronounciation
[03:30] <olskolirc> and you picked ME b/c im a girl
[03:30] <highvoltage> olskolirc: also, judging by your poor choice of words and your attacks on IdleOne in this channel, I doubt any one will take you seriously
[03:30] <IdleOne> again I am telling you that is idiotic
[03:31] <olskolirc> its the truth highvoltage i didn't call him names or disrespect him - what are you guys in your 20's?
[03:31] <olskolirc> you think like 20 year olds
[03:31] <maco> IdleOne: and that was ableist
[03:31] <highvoltage> olskolirc: I am, do you have a problem with that?
[03:31] <IdleOne> maco?
[03:31] <maco> i rather doubt IdleOne would be mean to someone for being a girl. he's one of the lovely people working in the Ubuntu Women Project
[03:31] <maco> IdleOne: "idiotic" was an ableist insult
[03:31] <persia> olskolirc, I understand your issue.  I encourage you to take action to resolve it.  The current two methods that will best generate results are to appeal using the appeals process, or come back here in 24 hours.
[03:31] <nhandler> Alright. olskolirc, you have been told about the Appeals Process. If you have nothing else to discuss, please leave. You can return in 24 hours to discuss this further if desired.
[03:31] <ka1ser> Im on my 20s =)
[03:31] <olskolirc> to you men maybe maco
[03:32] <IdleOne> indeed. I apologize for my poor choice of words
[03:32] <maco> olskolirc: i'm a man? news to me
[03:32] <olskolirc> soon as I said i was a girl, he told me to shut up and kicked me - soon as i came back in i joined a conversation and he told me to stop talking offtopic it was already the conversation when I came in and before i could say anything, i was banned
[03:32] <ka1ser> olslokirc... just get another ip and fake you are not olslokirc =)
[03:32] <olskolirc> what do you call that?
[03:32] <persia> Those of us who are recieving end, let's please not respond to the sort of triggers that wouldn't be expected under the CoC: no need to extend things.
[03:33] <persia> ka1ser, Please don't encourage that sort of thing.
[03:33] <persia> olskolirc, Please raise the issue to the IRCC.  We *can't* take action about it, whether we believe you or not.
[03:33] <olskolirc> im not going through all that trouble ka1ser he has no right to ban me and its b/c i said i was a girl the first time before i was kicked
[03:33] <persia> It needs to be submitted via the appeals process.
[03:34] <olskolirc> and who is in charge of the appeals process IdleOne?
[03:34] <IdleOne> the IRCC
[03:34] <persia> olskolirc, You're telling us, but we can't do anything, and we can't appeal on your behalf.  The rules are constructed in a way that means that you *do* have to go through "all that trouble" if you want results.
[03:34] <IdleOne> I am not
[03:34] <IdleOne> so your appeal will be read and handled by people who are not me.
[03:35] <olskolirc> just want everyone to know what a troll IdleOne is before i file.  Isn't that what you called me before i was banned IdleOne?  a troll!
[03:35] <persia> And the IRCC is beholden to the CC which is beholden to sabdfl.  Nobody in that chain is going to collude to hide an issue.
[03:35]  * maco is reading scrollback in #ubuntu and finding the "lap dance" comment horribly inappropriate
[03:35] <olskolirc> and now my kids are going to hate linux!
[03:35] <olskolirc> so what maco lighten up and get a woman you would love it
[03:35] <persia> olskolirc, Please don't let the actions of an individual colour your opinion of a kernel.   I know probably saying this on this channel is again against the rules... but I must say I find this situation funny... probably bc it didnt happen to me =/
[03:37] <nhandler> ka1ser: Is there something we can help you with?
[03:37] <persia> ka1ser, No, that'd not appropriate, and borderline on demonstrating lack of respect.
[03:38] <olskolirc> now they are in a tizzy ka1ser
[03:38] <ka1ser> not really I just wanted to know how this channel works
[03:38] <ka1ser> thanks for offering help
[03:38] <maco> ka1ser: there's a no idling policy here
[03:38] <nhandler> ka1ser: There are logs on irclogs.ubuntu.com if you want to see what goes on here
[03:38] <olskolirc> be careful what and how you ask ka1ser the men that don't have a woman get power tense and shoot from the keyboard instead of
[03:38] <olskolirc> and thats a FACT
[03:39] <maco> olskolirc: getting paid has little to do with being professional.  for example, do you realise that most of these channels are publically logged?
[03:39] <olskolirc> ive seen ops like IdleOne before
[03:39]  * maco hugs IdleOne
[03:39] <ka1ser> olskolirc just calm down... personal suggestion
[03:39] <olskolirc> professional?  this isn't my job im home having a good time - YOU be professional I DON'T HAVE TO
[03:39] <ka1ser> okay im leaving
[03:39] <ka1ser> thanks =)
[03:40] <maco> olskolirc: that doesnt change that we have rules regarding respectfulness and being within the bounds of a PG movie
[03:41] <olskolirc> dont be a prude maco there was nothing wrong with me saying lapdance and i was kicked for that im not talking about that so he need not REACH way back there about my ban i was already kicked for that, im talking about being banned for asking a quesiton about pronouncing the word linux when they were already talking about how to pronounce ubuntu
[03:41] <olskolirc> THAT was when i came back from being kicked and didn't do nothing wrong
[03:41] <maco> you were told you were being offtopic MANY times before the kick happened, from what i see, and by many different people
[03:41] <olskolirc> i don't see IdleOne banning anyone else for the offtopic that was in place when i came in
[03:41] <nhandler> olskolirc: In any case, as IdleOne informed you, the ban is going to remain in effect for now. You are welcome to return in 24 hours to discuss this issue further. There is also the appeals process if you wish to go that route. In the meantime, please part this channel, re-read the links you have been provided, and think about what has taken place so we can discuss this calmly tomorrow
[03:41] <persia> Note that we *also* have rules about pejorative discrimination for lots of things: but one has to follow the processes to get results for those.
[03:42] <maco> i was only suggesting the lapdance comment contributed to the "trolling" accusations
[03:42] <olskolirc> he said in ubuntu channel i was banned for A YEAR
[03:42] <olskolirc> im writing the fcc too
[03:42] <olskolirc> i work closely with them
[03:42] <persia> olskolirc, You're banned for an indeterminate period.  You are welcome to discuss it here in 24 hours after *everyone* has had time to calm, or raise an appeal.
[03:43] <olskolirc> in 24 hours my ban will be lifted
[03:43] <IdleOne> you asked a question in #ubuntu-offtopic. I answered sarcastically and then told you that this was the proper channel to discuss the ban.
[03:43] <olskolirc> appeal process make sense?
[03:43] <persia> Nobody other than the IRCC is able to address this.  Really.  If you aren't satisfied by your options in this channel, you'll do best to appeal to the IRCC.
[03:43] <olskolirc> and i did and then you told me to come here to #ubuntu-ops IdleOne
[03:43] <persia> In 24 hours you're welcome to discuss it here: there's no guarantee of an automatic lift to the ban.
[03:43] <maco> the word "year" appears nowhere in the log from when you started to when you were removed
[03:43] <olskolirc> giving me the run around
[03:44] <IdleOne> maco: in -ot I did say that
[03:44] <olskolirc> i asked him maco
[03:44] <maco> IdleOne: oh
[03:44] <maco> IdleOne: oy stop making jokes that are gonna be taken seriously
[03:44] <maco> its like the time rww told someone vim was a virus
[03:44] <IdleOne> but also said immediately after that it was not the proper channel to discuss the ban
[03:44] <olskolirc> i can get that text i didn't close any windows
[03:44] <maco> im in that chan too
[03:45] <IdleOne> olskolirc: I am not denying I said it was a year. no need to "get the text"
[03:45] <olskolirc> you people stick up for each other
[03:45] <IdleOne> anyway. I am done with this specific issue for tonight.
[03:45] <persia> Please, maco, IdleOne: if we've said to come back in 24 hours to discuss, let's not discuss now whilst tempers may still be high.
[03:45] <IdleOne> persia: agreed
[03:46] <persia> olskolirc, Please come back in 24 hours, or appeal (or both).    There's nothing else that can help currently.
[03:48] <olskolirc> everything was fine until i said i was a girl and then here come IdleOne everything i said was wrong
[03:48] <persia> olskolirc, And be warned, being forced to leave this channel is unlikely to help you when you come back tomorrow.
[03:49] <nhandler> olskolirc: Please /part so that everyone has a chance to think this over and calm down. You can return in 24 hours to discuss it further. There is also the Appeals Process
[03:49] <olskolirc> im doing it just so that it stays on IdleOne record b/c i know you guys don't have the guts to repremand him
[03:49] <persia> We *can't*.
[03:49] <nhandler> Alright, at least now everyone can calm down a bit.
[03:50] <nhandler> Darn
[03:50] <maco> why is it not ok for IdleOne to be sexist, but it is ok to her to be sexist?
[03:50] <maco> i just spotted a "men are stupid" from her in the #ubuntu logs
[03:50] <IdleOne> sorry nhandler but I didn't see any other option but to call ops on that :/
[03:51] <nhandler> No problem IdleOne
[03:52] <persia> maco, It's complicated.  Many folk who choose to perceive themselves as members of oppressed groups somehow don't feel it's bad to pejoratively discriminate against the perceived oppressors: often with phrases along the lines of "turnabout is fair play".  Unfortunate, but the only real resolution is widespread education and cultural change *or* removing the perception of oppression.
[03:53] <persia> There's lots of studies about it in various places: I expect any number of them to at least have abstracts published online.
[03:53] <maco> *pout* howabout nobody's mean to anybody else?
[03:53] <persia> Yep, that's the goal :)
[03:53] <IdleOne> I'll vote for that maco
[03:53] <highvoltage> maco: personally, I doubt that it's really a woman in the first place
[03:54] <persia> Impossible to know.
[03:54] <persia> Pointless to speculate.
[03:55] <IdleOne> you will notice that earlier in here she said she was new but then pulled the " I been online 14 years"
[03:55] <IdleOne> and?
[03:55] <IdleOne> me too
[03:55] <IdleOne> so what!
[03:55] <persia> Let's not discuss the case for 24 hours.
[03:55] <IdleOne> good idea
[03:55] <persia> It can do nothing but prejudice the decision to be taken then.
[03:56] <IdleOne> I think I might let someone else handle it tomorrow when they come back
[03:56] <persia> Might be safer.
[04:18] <nhandler> I noticed that ubottu does not prompt for comments on quiets (even when not set via chanserv). Any thoughts on this matter? Personally, I think that it would be useful (as it encourages OPs to document why the quiet was set). Without the prompts, I doubt most OPs would take the time to set a comment.
[04:21] <persia> How do we typically handle un-quiets?
[04:22] <nhandler> persia: I would think they would follow the same process as a ban. Usually, they are resolved in PM before reaching the part of the process where the user joins this channel
[04:24] <persia> Makes sense.  Do we ever need medium-term quiets (except for the silly one I have to keep maintaining)?
[04:25] <nhandler> persia: It is really up to the OP. Personally, I think that we overuse bans and underuse quiets. Quiets can be just as effective as bans in resolving the problem while allowing the user to remain in the channel. Bans are useful for join spam, blatant bots, users with inappropriate nicks, or other similar cases
[04:26] <persia> If you're promoting a policy of heavier use of quiets, then I think ubottu ought 1) prompt for a reason for the quiet (and track it appropriately), and 2) ask if a quiet would have achieved the goal when a ban is set.
[04:27] <persia> I know that for the ban I'm supposed to maintain, a quiet and a bit of social pressure seems to work better than a ban, because the individual concerned can happily watch what is happening realtime without being involved (or disruptive)
[04:29] <nhandler> persia: Ubottu already tracks quiets on the ban tracker. The prompting for a reason can be enabled with one command. Asking the user if a quiet would have worked instead of a ban is a helpful question, but I think OPs should be encouraged to ask themself that (a bot could get rather annoying)
[04:30] <persia> I guess.  I'm not sure we have a strong enough shared best-practices document that enough of us have really read carefully (as opposed to looked over a couple times).
[04:30] <persia> But that's really a balance between the amount one wishes to promote quiets vs. the amount one is willing to annoy ops.
[04:31] <nhandler> And the idea of using quiets more instead of bans is more of something I'm hoping to try and push. That concept hasn't been used much in the Ubuntu channels (but is used elsewhere on freenode and by freenode staff).
[04:37] <persia> Works for me, I have to say.
[07:53] <persia> Might make sense to restrict that to development channels (ubuntu-dev, ubuntu-motu, ubuntu-mythtv, xubuntu-dev, ubuntustudio-devel, kubuntu-dev, etc.)
[09:19] <DJones> Is anybody around who can deal with #ubuntu at the minute (SailorReality)
[09:19] <popey> seems not
[09:20] <DJones> Ah well
[09:27] <DJones> Looks like they've gone, SailorReality just disconnected, connection reset by peer
[09:29] <persia> That's probably for the best.  Unfortunate 20 minutes though.
[09:30] <DJones> Thanks anyway
[10:13] <bazhang>  [ne0|penguin]<EMAIL_ADDRESS> <--- Jungli ?
[10:17] <elky> I can't say I've ever seen anyone else use tinyirc.
[12:09] <jussi> can I add " | I'm on a horse" to the !bot factoid? :D :P
[12:11] <persia> No.
[12:11] <jrib> (persia's on the horse)
[12:12] <jussi> aww
[12:13] <persia> jussi, Fails vanity rules.
[12:13] <jussi> persia: but its ubottu :P
[12:13] <jussi> she is very vain... :P
[12:14] <persia> Not so much anymore.   :D Hi! I'm ubottu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | I'm on a horse
[12:14]  * jussi grins
[12:16] <Tm_T> ...
[12:18]  * Tm_T hides from the horse
[12:20] <persia> ubottu on a horse is disturbing
[12:20] <persia> See, she agrees with me.
[12:47] <elky> Heh
[12:48] <elky> Given the historical penchant of ubuntu devs for 'no pony', it only makes sense.
[12:49]  * persia sadly points at libacme-poe-knee-perl breaking the "no pony" rule
[13:01] <jussi> heh
[13:40] <elky> Do I have to answer him. I don't want to answer him.
[13:40] <bazhang> no
[13:40] <elky> Um. I think that answers my question.
[14:35] <bazhang> kamalesh's issue is not making sense. gnome-panel is running and uninstalled at the same time? yet he never removed it? wonder if that is dhanesh
[14:36] <persia> It's perfectly possible to reach that state if there was an explicit removal of something that gnome-panel depends upon, and it hasn't closed yet.
[14:36] <persia> Mind you, it takes a special sort of energy to reach that state, but ...
[16:05] <Pici> The heck? BluesKaj is asking iEatChildren to change his nick in #kubuntu
[16:06] <Pici> er.
[16:08] <IdleOne> I don't see anything really wrong with the nick but I can see how some might not like it
[16:08] <IdleOne> is it worth going to war over? I don't think so
[16:09] <Pici> Yeah. I'm going to leave it alone.
[16:09] <IdleOne> as long as they can both stay civil
[16:22] <Pici> jussi: while you're at it, the !upgrade factoid for Kubuntu looks a bit out-of-date too
[16:22] <Pici> !upgrade-#kubuntu
[16:22] <jussi> hehe
[16:22] <jussi> Ill look
[16:23] <jussi> !no, autostart-#kubuntu is <reply>Use the tool in System Settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Autostart to make programs automatically start in your KDE session. See !boot for managing which services start at boot time
[17:25] <asddff> hi
[17:25] <asddff> please, delete my ban on #kubuntu channel.... I have been banned more than month ago.
[17:26] <asddff> I will be good boy.
[17:27] <asddff> (I was banned without reason)
[17:29] <asddff> Good guys, tell with me. Are you my frands?
[17:30] <IdleOne> asddff: Please be patient and someone will help you soon
[17:33] <IdleOne> Riddell: asddff needs some help with a ban
[17:33] <asddff> Yes. It is me.
[17:34] <asddff> I am here and I am waiting now.
[17:35] <Riddell> what's the question?
[17:35] <asddff> Riddell [20:25] <asddff> please, delete my ban on #kubuntu channel.... I have been banned more than month ago.
[17:37] <Riddell> there's no mention of "asddff" in the #kubuntu logs from August, Sept or Oct
[17:38] <IdleOne> asddff: Do you remember what nick you were using at the time?
[17:39] <IdleOne> Riddell:  BT 28841 nick was petr
[17:41] <Riddell> [14:44] <assnigro> get back mather fucka your money...
[17:41] <Riddell> was that you?
[17:42] <asddff> Riddell  may be may be!  I remember this words... but it is from one american rap song!
[17:43] <asddff> yes... Shame on me... but it was me!
[17:44] <asddff> Riddell You can not delete ban after this words?
[17:45] <Riddell> I don't know how
[17:45] <Riddell> IdleOne: how do I remove a ban?
[17:45] <asddff> [20:44] [474] #kubuntu Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[17:45] <IdleOne> Riddell: /mode -b hostmask
[17:46] <Riddell> IdleOne: how do I know what the hostmask is?
[17:46] <IdleOne><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:47] <h00k> I would, but I don't have op status in #kubuntu
[17:47] <bazhang> me three
[17:47] <IdleOne> me either
[17:47] <Riddell> asddff: try now
[17:48] <asddff> YES MAN!
[17:48] <asddff> thanks
[17:51] <IdleOne> asddff: if there is nothing else, please part this channel and have a good day :)
[17:54] <asddff> IdleOne  I have found out all what I want in #ubuntu channel.... but for future I want to use kubuntu channel... ok? thanks.
[17:55] <IdleOne> asddff: that is fine but there is a no idling rule in this channel. So if there is nothing else you need help with in this channel please /part
[17:56] <asddff> aaaa ))) I did not understand word "part"... part of what?   so... part is command
[17:56] <asddff> I will be here.... sometime
[17:56] <IdleOne> asddff: yes, /part will make you exit this channel
[17:56] <mneptok> asddff: please leave this channel
[17:56] <asddff> why?
[17:57] <mneptok> because ops have asked you.
[17:57] <IdleOne> because we do not allow people to be here without reason
[17:57] <asddff> there are good guys.
[17:57] <IdleOne> your issue has been resolved.
[17:57] <asddff> ok.
[17:57] <IdleOne> thank you
[17:57] <mneptok> if i have to kick you from here, i will also then ban you from #ubuntu and #kubuntu as i will have lost faith in your ability to follow rules.
[17:59] <mneptok> not the sharpest knife in the drawer ...
[18:03] <Tm_T> sorry I wasn't available
[18:04] <IdleOne> we pooled our resources and got it sorted
[18:04] <Tm_T> I notice, thanks for that
[18:46] <maco> uhhhhh
[18:46] <tsimpson> jussi: are we no longer supporting LTS in #kubuntu now? (re !autostart-#kubuntu)
[18:46] <maco> username in #ubuntu.... "pervydick"?
[18:47] <IdleOne> maco he just quit
[18:47] <maco> mmk
[18:47] <IdleOne> but yeah. next time we can ask that he changes it


[00:57] <ItzSwirlz> Anyone willing to take a look at reviewing my patch for in the Cinnamon Desktop Libraries, using -- flag when launching the terminal instead of using -x? (Bug #1905630)


[16:48] <dirkulas> hello! is there any good solution for computer labs out there?
[16:49] <dirkulas> i read about ltsp but it still seems hard to keep track of the computers


[02:27] <cmaloney> Finding Herbie Hancock albums at B&N = A+
[02:27] <cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/The-Warner-Bros-Years-1969-1972/dp/B00KCDTX6M
[02:27] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/g4y1hI - Amazon.com: The Warner Bros. Years (1969-1972): Music
[11:18] <wolfger> Good morning, and Happy Friday!
[11:19] <wolfger> Every day I walk through the front door here at Ford, I smile. Because right there as I walk in the building is "Cougar Room". Then I remember Cougar is a Ford brand, and the disappointment sets in. :-D
[11:23] <cmaloney> hah
[11:25] <rick_h_> morning
[11:48] <brousch_> wolfger: Aren't you a little old for cougars anyways? Are you attracting 70 year old cougars?
[12:18] <wolfger> brousch_: bah. Stop trying to be logical. Let me have my fantasy that I'm still young and desirable.
[12:19] <brousch_> Sorry to crush your dreams :(
[13:06] <cmaloney> hah
[13:07] <cmaloney> I have no such dreams. :)
[13:07] <cmaloney> Also:
[13:07] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[13:07] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Wiggle Waggle by Herbie Hancock on Fat Albert Rotunda
[13:10] <wolfger> .np wolfger
[13:10] <bookiebot> wolfger's last track - Symphony No. 1 in D major, "Titan": II. Kraftig bewegt, doch nicht zu schnell by Michael Halasz on I Love the 80s, Vol. 1 (1880s) [29 Dec 2010, 23:04]
[13:10] <wolfger> I don't think so.....
[13:12] <brousch_> .np brousch
[13:12] <bookiebot> brousch's last track - Different Wings by Pitrelli on The Lost Christmas Eve [24 Dec 2011, 18:33]
[13:13] <brousch_> I have no idea what that is
[13:17] <wolfger> the album name is relevant to the date, though. :-D
[13:19] <brousch_> Ah, apparently he is a guitarist for TSO
[13:56] <cmaloney> Yeah, Al Pitrelli
[13:56] <cmaloney> Was the guitarist for Megadeth for a while.
[13:56] <cmaloney> until he realized playing Christmas-tinged  metal music was more lucrative.
[13:59] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhohpo
[13:59] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[13:59] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Ostinato (Suite for Angela) by Herbie Hancock on Mwandishi
[14:09] <wolfger> wolfger's current track - Blue Monday Hangover by Albert Collins on Blues'n Booze
[15:58] <jrwren> I've been writing too many commit messages. I was targetting 60columns instead of 80
[21:36] <rick_h_> hello from more powerful irc server, now just need to move my email setup ugh
[23:45] <rick_h_> evening


 Would it be possible to setup a build server on say a Synology NAS?
 Yes, but Synology doesn't tend to put very good hardware in those things. A Raspberry Pi 4 would probably be faster.
 On what criteria do you say that about the hardware?
 I have a DS1019+
 It ain't building anything.
 Underpowered processor?
 Yes
 Hmmmm.
 Buy it as a NAS where you can shout at someone else if it breaks, not as a general purpose computer.
 I wonder if the DS1821+ would be up to scratch.
 Impressive. But cheaper to slap together a Ryzen board.
 I'm trying to upgrade uPower Indicator on my laptop. I can but the docker images are chunky.
 And you have to get around the device being designed as a NAS, not a general purpose computer. You can run Docker on it, but it's awkward.
 Clickable almost certainly won't run without doing something a little dumb. I don't know what that would be, mind.
 That checks out.
 If I do eventually end up getting it primarily for backup purposes, I could look into it.
[04:21] <ubptgbot> Frederic LESUR was added by: Frederic LESUR
[04:33] <ubptgbot> pabbloescobarr was added by: pabbloescobarr
 Greetings to all!!! I tried yesterday to flash through the Redmi Note 7 application on Ubuntu Touch, but nothing happened! (I also tried through Windowc and Ubuntu! While Fastboot seems to be loading, but then it reboots itself into recovery and everything gets up !!! Not like in the video that I was thrown off ! Maybe you need to
[04:34] <ubptgbot> reflash the recovery? Put TWRP ??
 made on this video
 Fwd from S1zENY: И что тут сложного ? https://youtu.be/zuLFTGkuD68
 Thanks in advance for your help !!
 @pabbloescobarr [Greetings to all!!! I tried yesterday to flash through the Redmi Note 7 applicat …], Is the phone unlocked? The UBports installer works well with Redmi Note 7 in my experience -  https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/lavender/
 Could someone with a OP3 or OP3T please do a ```ls /sys/class/power_supply/battery``` for me?
 @Danfro [And I may add, if the selfi cam missing a focus us the only drawback, well I wou …], ssh needs to be constantly restarted on Xperia X also.
 @TotalSonic [Is the phone unlocked? The UBports installer works well with Redmi Note 7 in my …], Is it possible to unlock the phone without contacting Xiaomi? I was thinking of getting this phone
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/ZGQfZBPv.png
 @D5h4d0w [Is it possible to unlock the phone without contacting Xiaomi? I was thinking of …], You need to create an account with Xiaomi and then use Xiaomi's unlocker software (Windows only) - https://en.miui.com/unlock/
 @TotalSonic [You need to create an account with Xiaomi and then use Xiaomi's unlocker softwar …], Yes, I read that, but that's what I'm asking. Is it possible to unlock the phone without doing this? … I don't want to create an account on their site, and I don't use Windows
 @D5h4d0w [Yes, I read that, but that's what I'm asking. Is it possible to unlock the phone …], There are apparently some methods that can be found with an online search (I found a number of them via DuckDuckGo) but I have not tested these - and some of the ones I found seem shady in that it is a third party asking for your IMEI.
 @D5h4d0w [<reply to media>], When the device is powered off, it won't charge (most phablets are capable of doing this).
 @D5h4d0w [<reply to media>], charging the phone while it is turned off
 @TotalSonic [You need to create an account with Xiaomi and then use Xiaomi's unlocker softwar …], Ok, tthanks 👍, Maybe I'll buy a Xiaomi note 7
 @TotalSonic [There are apparently some methods that can be found with an online search (I fou …], I did too, which is why I asked here, as I can get correct information from people that know a lot about this topic :)
 @TartanSpartan [When the device is powered off, it won't charge (most phablets are capable of do …], Ahh okay, that's fine for me then
 @TotalSonic [There are apparently some methods that can be found with an online search (I fou …], Okay, I might get it and get it unlocked by a friend who already has an account there or somebody else. I guess that'd work for me
 @Josele13 [Ok, tthanks 👍, Maybe I'll buy a Xiaomi note 7], The Redmi Note 7 is a really nice device, and last I tested ran UT really nicely although with a couple of bugs.  But apparently on devel channel they just fixed a major one (fix for echoing phone calls) but I have not tested this yet (my Redmi Note 7 is currently running Line
[07:48] <ubptgbot> age)
 Btw, does anyone own that device here? If there is a good review of how all the things work on the device, the battery life, etc.. … It'd be good to know in advance
 @D5h4d0w [Btw, does anyone own that device here? If there is a good review of how all the …], Yes, I have it.
 @TotalSonic [Is the phone unlocked? The UBports installer works well with Redmi Note 7 in my …], Well, I untied it from the account, and indeed I left all accounts before the firmware !! I just asked in our Russian-speaking community whether it is necessary to unlock the bootloader! I was told that it is not necessary !! Duck can s
[07:49] <ubptgbot> till write a letter to unlock the bootloader in China?)
 @pabbloescobarr [Well, I untied it from the account, and indeed I left all accounts before the fi …], If you wish to install UT on it you must unlock the bootloader first.
 @TotalSonic [The Redmi Note 7 is a really nice device, and last I tested ran UT really nicely …], Oh nice. I might get it then. It's one of the only cheap, readily available and most feature rich (according to the UBPorts page) device.
 Sure. Thanks for the info @TotalSonic
 I just need it unlocked, right? No root required?
 @Javacookies [also, there's Ubsync for syncing to Nextcloud … not yet available for arm64 though], Ubsync is available for arm64.  I have it working on my Xperia X. … I used this build of it: … https://github.com/belohoub/UBsync/releases/tag/v0.5_multiarch
 @D5h4d0w [I just need it unlocked, right? No root required?], You need to unlock it, and then put it into developer mode, and then enable USB ADB debugging.  After that you should be able to use the UBports installer.
 @TotalSonic [You need to unlock it, and then put it into developer mode, and then enable USB …], Cool
 @TotalSonic [If you wish to install UT on it you must unlock the bootloader first.], Thank you very much for prompting !!!!!
 @pabbloescobarr [Thank you very much for prompting !!!!!], de nada
 @gibcheesepuffs [charging the phone while it is turned off], How to charge it if it drains completely?
 @TotalSonic [The Redmi Note 7 is a really nice device, and last I tested ran UT really nicely …], I like this phone, the porting is very advanced and being able to use the ubports installer is less complicated when switching to Ut.
 @D5h4d0w [How to charge it if it drains completely?], good question, avoid that scenario XD
 @wayneTBT [Ubsync is available for arm64.  I have it working on my Xperia X. … I used this b …], oh cool, I thought, starting the service still wasn't working. Thanks
 Nope, working for me currently.
 @gibcheesepuffs [good question, avoid that scenario XD], Yikes 😳 I can avoid it yes, but if the battery has issues after some years, other reasons, etc.. I can't imagine how I'll be able to get it to work 😂
 @D5h4d0w [How to charge it if it drains completely?], On the Volla (which has a similar bug preventing offline charging) - you plug it in, and it turns on into Fastboot mode.  After that you can hold the power button one more time and it will boot up.   From there you can charge it up.
 It's interesting that charging when powered off is dependent on the OS software installed on the device. Manufacturers are really making it difficult for people liking libre software huh?
 @TotalSonic [On the Volla (which has a similar bug preventing offline charging) - you plug it …], Hmmmm
 [Edit] It's interesting that charging when powered off is dependent on the OS software installed on the device. Manufacturers are really making it difficult for people that like libre software huh?
 @D5h4d0w [It's interesting that charging when powered off is dependent on the OS software …], Most UT devices have no problem doing offline charging.  It seems this problem started with a few devices using Halium 9 based ports.
 And tell me you do UT need to install in reboot or fastboot mode ??
[08:00] <ubptgbot> Rani Ayoubi was added by: Rani Ayoubi
 @pabbloescobarr [And tell me you do UT need to install in reboot or fastboot mode ??], The UBports Installer usually first uses fastboot and then uses recovery mode - but will guide you through the process.
 I just don't wanna mess with my phone !!
 Thank you again !!!! Sorry for my clumsy English! I speak it badly !! Himself from Russia!
 @pabbloescobarr [Thank you again !!!! Sorry for my clumsy English! I speak it badly !!   Best of success with flashing your phone.
 Hi, … Me and a few Ubuntu Touch community members have decided to start an Anbox campaine, to hire a freelance developer to work on Anbox, would you like to donate, please click the following link: https://www.gofundme.com/f/anbox-on-ut?teamInvite=JTRlwp84LfS1B9QxYbprOXO5jj2LJ39aEmfKOs6SRSV2euyULE6kPye4ihsUpRjn&utm_medium=email&utm_sou
[08:56] <ubptgbot> rce=product&utm_campaign=p_email%2Bteaminviteemail … Thanks for your donation!
 @TartanSpartan [Could someone with a OP3 or OP3T please do a ls /sys/class/power_supply/battery …], Are you working on getting battery stats to work? =)
[09:39] <ubptgbot> Alastair Hill was added by: Alastair Hill
[09:55] <ubptgbot> Marcin was added by: Marcin
 Hi everyone! Greetings from Poland 🇵🇱.
 @TartanSpartan [Could someone with a OP3 or OP3T please do a ls /sys/class/power_supply/battery …], Here it is ;) … https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NxqQCCd9xk/
 @vince1171 [Here it is ;) … https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NxqQCCd9xk/], Ok so one thing: Charging information is a problem in recent devices. I found the source for that, its indicator-power trying to guess which battery device to show. Nnote that actual charging state is being read correctly, means the white/green LED status is working. Jus
[10:50] <ubptgbot> t the indicator will never show small flash for charging, and no stats being recorded in the graph
 I will try to make a patch for that soon hopefully
[11:14] <ubptgbot> <Rani Ayoubi> Hello, … Greatings everyone, … Would it be possible to install on iPad3, knowing that it is not on the list of supported devices, would there be any work around?
 @Rani Ayoubi [Hello, … Greatings everyone, … Would it be possible to install on iPad3, knowing t …], there's no android for ipad3
 neither mainline linux
 so it is not possible
 [Edit] neither mainline linux support
[11:18] <ubptgbot> <Rani Ayoubi> In my case would there be anyway to format the ipadl
[11:18] <ubptgbot> <Rani Ayoubi> Based on you knowledge
 @Rani Ayoubi [In my case would there be anyway to format the ipadl], No, it is not currently possible to install UT on any iOS device.
[11:30] <ubptgbot> <Rani Ayoubi> Thank you everyone 😃
[11:31] <ubptgbot> <Rani Ayoubi> Honored to meet you
[11:34] <ubptgbot> MURGUERO was added by: MURGUERO
 Greetings/saludos from Germany to everyone ;)
 Welcome
 @TotalSonic [No, it is not currently possible to install UT on any iOS device.], iphone.ubports.com lmao
 This is possible now
 yeah 😉
 Dalton was like why when I said that a couple weeks ago
 It'd be slow
 Imagine pinephone with extra bugs
 umh, any help? I'm trying to restore factory android with ADB on my Nexus 5, everything goes well, I've extracted the .zip file and navigated there, but when I run "sudo ./flash-all.sh" it says: ./flash-all.sh: 17: fastboot: not found … Also 18, 20, 21 and 23... any help?
 should I sideload the OTA instead?
 that is probably easier yes
 Does anyone know if the adb should work normally on Santoni?
 @Fuseteam [that is probably easier yes], Well it said sideload failed... what should I do?
 You need to install fastboot and adb on your PC
 @dohbee [You need to install fastboot and adb on your PC], I have, I'm trying to do it through ADB, saying everything is up to date
 Ok, now adb sees my device, I'm in recovery, I run ./flash-all.sh    and........ it just says <waiting for any device>. Now what?
 adb reboot fastboot just reboots to ubuntu touch
 anyone? i'm stuck
 someone said I should use a usb 2.0 port, but I only have 3.0 ports
 my device is nexus 5 and when I type fastboot ./flash-all.sh it just says "fastboot: usage: unknown command ./flash-all.sh"
 sigh...
 @taykkay [Well it said sideload failed... what should I do?], can you be more verbose?
 i got it using the hard way: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tutorial-how-to-flash-a-factory-image-return-to-stock-unroot-save-your-nexus-5.2513701/
 @taykkay [Ok, now adb sees my device, I'm in recovery, I run ./flash-all.sh    and........ …], yes you must be at bootloader, not recovery
 `adb reboot bootloader`
 is there someone still on ota-15 here?
 Is there a way to remove ubuntu and install android.
 Even my bootloader shows ubuntu for me
 that's the bootsplash, not sure if sideloading the ota image will overwrite that
 @Braillynn [That's awesome! While I don't use Windows or Mac OS anymore, I know a lot of peo …], Is that world wide? Or only in the US?
 Okay
 @Nicktl [Thanks i'll do that], You look a bit like Mawi from Moana, if you've seen the cartoon 😁
[15:53] <ubptgbot> cloverfuckblack was added by: cloverfuckblack
 something's really weird with `Alt-Tab` which seems to have started with OTA-16 … anyone else who use a physcal keybord? … sometimes `Alt-Tab` just tabs on the current app instead of switching apps
 @Javacookies [something's really weird with Alt-Tab which seems to have started with OTA-16 … an …], You mean that it acts like ctrl+tab instead?
 I don't know what ctrl tab does 😅
 but the normal tabbing, focuses on dfferent elements in the app
 @Fuseteam [that's the bootsplash, not sure if sideloading the ota image will overwrite that], no it won't. and sideloading is not how we should talk about going back to android
 @Javacookies [but the normal tabbing, focuses on dfferent elements in the app], sounds like the modifier wasn't included in the event
 i haven't noticed anything like that in my VM with lomiri
 I feel like that's what's happening
 but it doesn't seem to happen all the time
 I'll try to test and observe more
 @Atti [You look a bit like Mawi from Moana, if you've seen the cartoon 😁], their profile pic is the baby from the 90s animatronic tv show Dinosours
 @D5h4d0w [<reply to media>], that nice battery screen that it boots to when you have it off, or discharge the phone too much
 Earning money online … The link is in my bio … You can make money with it … Tonight i made 100 rub(1.05 maybe)with it … لینک در آمد زایی تو بیو هستش … اگه روششو خواستید بگید در خدمتم … همین امشب حدود ۱۰۰ روبل حدود ۴۰۰۰۰ تومن در اوردم
 @D5h4d0w [It's interesting that charging when powered off is dependent on the OS software …], i think that part is up to the bootloader, perhaps they messed something in the fastboot stuff
 @dohbee [no it won't. and sideloading is not how we should talk about going back to andro …], pretty sure sideloading the full ota android image is recommended by google for nexus and pixel devices 👀
 @Fuseteam [pretty sure sideloading the full ota android image is recommended by google for …], that's assuming it already has android on, to use the ota image
 if you want to go back from UT you need to use the OEM full image and use the flash all script
 @dohbee [if you want to go back from UT you need to use the OEM full image and use the fl …], so this: https://developers.google.com/android/images
 yes
 which notes its "safer and easier to sideload the full ota image instead"
 IF YOU ALREADY HAVE ANDROID ON
 because if you get the wrong boot it is brick
 i see 🤔
 you can't sideload anything with the ubports recovery
 i have seen people flash twrp followed by a sideload to recovery from very unusable states in the welcome room so yeah 🤷♀
 [Edit] i have seen people flash twrp followed by a sideload to recover from very unusable states in the welcome room so yeah 🤷♀
 anyway, if you have adb and fastboot installed, the full flash script will work fine, on nexus 5, with the occasional problem of perhaps needing to edit it and remove one argument from one of the commands because it will fail to format the cache partition or something like that
 hmm i see
 oh look a media mention https://haydenjames.io/85-of-all-smartphones-are-powered-by-linux/
 hello guys.... quite new to ubuntuTouch, but a  longtime Debian user.... Hope to ask on the right place... because of all that kind of restrictions here in switzerland, I'm searching for three kind of new devices mostly supported by U-Touch I could sell to my customers.... A cheap one, a good one and a not too expensive deluxe-model..
[17:05] <ubptgbot> . which ones would you sell to your friends/customers? For the good-one I'm would sell the fairphones, I liked to sell Wiko or the new lenovo/motorola cheap ones and for deluxe something of samsung... but they should be phones I can buy, even I know, the "old"-ones are not that bad, but swiss-people wants only or mostly to buy womething new... any
[17:05] <ubptgbot> advises?
 in short: advises for 3 kinds of new phones i could buy: a cheap one, a good one, and a deluxe-edition... self-explained, supported to be UTouch-Devices
 if you must have new devices, and you have the funding, the best option would be to partner with some manufacturers to produce devices which you will ship with UT on them instead of android; for example like HelloWelt did for Volla phone. You could partner perhaps with pine64, Fairphone, etc… for that.
 note that fairphone 2 is not new, and fairphone 3 is not "officially supported" by UT yet afaik
[17:20] <ubptgbot> mp3tomicrosd was added by: mp3tomicrosd
 I already contactet fairphone, its btw a swiss company, but not yet got an answer... I'd like to do the same like HelloWelt, but I guess the funds I could expect to spend will not be enough... I thought to start with 10-20 phones, and then go straight upward... my customers have to get familiar with the os... mostly they are about 50y
[17:22] <ubptgbot> o and up, the have money to spend, but not not to throw out the window. Years ago I was in shenzen, I know they are pretty cheap in production, but I also know how bad the production controlling are... so I would like to reinstall them myself
 I use a redmi7 and it works at a glance, but I cannot buy it anymore, instead newer ones, but not sure if I'm able to port them
 hello guys i have  a product suggestion a ubuntu on a  blackberry id like to able to install ubuntu on a blackberry that for me would be the ultimate phone i do love a keyboard phone just a suggestion i wanted to make keep it up guys its briiliant my nexus works quite well i d love to replace it with a blackberry thanks guys adam😀😀
 sorry my grammar and typing meh (:
 welcome @mp3tomicrosd if you are able to unlock the bootloader and find kernel source code you could attempt to bring ubuntu touch to blackberry by following our porting guide
 [Edit] welcome @mp3tomicrosd if you are able to unlock the bootloader and find kernel source code you could attempt to bring ubuntu touch to blackberry by following our porting guide linked in the group description
[17:32] <ubptgbot> SmoothAsPython was added by: SmoothAsPython
 il do some research on it id like to consider it a project to work on it because i do think a blackberry ubuntu phone would be totally awesome thanks il do that il see what i can do im not amazing at coding but yeah id like it to be a project the keyboard blackberry ubuntu smartphone
 thanks for getting back to me
 Blackberry devices are unlikely targets since bootloader can't be unlocked on them
 the closest alternative in terms of form factor I can think of is Unihertz Titan, but they won't release kernel source code
 @Pasquinator [hello guys.... quite new to ubuntuTouch, but a  longtime Debian user.... Hope to …], I'd suggest Xiaomi Redmi Note 7, and perhaps getting in touch with Gigaset for the GS290 if you can not get a good deal as a reseller for Hallo Welt / Volla
 What is the difference between halium-devel and devel channel on OPO?
 Dont switch to halium-devel
 It is a newer version of halium but you wont be able to switch back
 @LGeek [What is the difference between halium-devel and devel channel on OPO?], halium-devel is for testing halium 7.1 based port; current build is 5.1 based iirc
 Thanks, I'll wait to the new helium be stable or on RC
[17:59] <ubptgbot> <Ted Rendol> @DD1 [I understand work has to be compensated for but selling this at 360 eur...I dont …], Freedom of choice is always expensive. So free choice for linux os you have to pay dearly. Like a good electric car ;-)  Used devices 5 years old that support linux os are on average 90 eur with or without Ubuntu Touch
 I thought, I had fear to get that answer, that was my thought too, after 3 days of research... It's a pitty, looking at a Wiko W830, with a "fast" mediatek CPU at the cost of not more than 80€ brandnew in relation of a used 3yo redmi at the same cost...
 I didn't tried to do a port myself... I will recieve a WIKO 830 (mediatek 6725) this evening and hope to get it ported... what do you think how difficult will it be... I read somewhere that a port is possible on any device that support android10... isn't it?
 which Wiko exactly?
 does it have kernel source code? (check https://www.wikogeek.com/)
 view4
 view lite
 sorry, its a view4 64gb... but as I see, it's a view4 lite
[18:11] <ubptgbot> <Ted Rendol> @Pasquinator [I didn't tried to do a port myself... I will recieve a WIKO 830 (mediatek 6725) …], If it is possible to unlock bl. With a lot of time, knowledge and patience the answer is yes.
 @Ted Rendol [If it is possible to unlock bl. With a lot of time, knowledge and patience the a …], but also honestly, if you want to try UT, buy a device that is supported
 so the point of no return will be the bootloader you mean?
 I don't see view 4/view4 lite on that website anyway
 I already installed UT on several devices... I use the redmi7 since a couple of months, and I would never change back, It works really nice, but I cannot buy it anymore as a new device 😞
[18:16] <ubptgbot> <Ted Rendol> @Pasquinator [so the point of no return will be the bootloader you mean?], The ability to unlock the bootloader is the first.
 out of ongoing Android 10 ports, there are some devices that can be likely bought as new (Redmi Note 8 Pro, Redmi 9, OnePlus Nord N10, Poco M3), but it's still in a pretty early state and not ready for daily use yet
 View 4 looks like a possible target, but you need to bother the vendor to provide Linux kernel source code first according to GPLv2 license
 [Edit] Wiko View 4 looks like a possible target, but you need to bother the vendor to provide Linux kernel source code first according to GPLv2 license
 [Edit] out of ongoing Android 10 ports, there are some devices that can be likely bought as new (Redmi Note 8 Pro, Redmi 9, OnePlus Nord N10, Poco M3/Redmi 9T), but it's still in a pretty early state and not ready for daily use yet
[18:21] <ubptgbot> <Ted Rendol> @NotKit [out of ongoing Android 10 ports, there are some devices that can be likely bough …], Good information but for them we have to wait or become a developer and help;)
 I guess I'll try it from the y81 source and the view5.... ill open a new repo, and try to port the view4.... I guess it the most affordable phone for a really good price, fast enough and a good battery.... will post infos as soon as I can go forward
 @D5h4d0w [Yikes 😳 I can avoid it yes, but if the battery has issues after some years, oth …], The phone will still charge in that situation. Describing it as "no charging support when the phone is off" is a bit wrong. The problem is that the phone cannot remain in powered off state during charging, in this case. The phone will try to boot
[19:04] <ubptgbot> , and if the charge is not enough it may not succeed to boot until there is enough charge, so it will have a bootloop type experience in that case, until it can boot successfully.
[20:29] <ubptgbot> 🆃🆁🆄🆃🅷 was added by: 🆃🆁🆄🆃🅷
[20:41] <ubptgbot> Nemtekl was added by: Nemtekl
[20:54] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/zEuhqO4d.jpeg
 Hi! Had anybody from you noticed a slightly decrease in Nexus's 5 performance after the OTA-16 update?
[20:56] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Vfn0ijJA.jpeg
 @Steve Kueffer [<reply to media>], no idea. i can load an ods file just fine in my vm with latest docviewer
[20:58] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Oh... Is .ods different than .odt perhaps? (but worked well on OTA 15)
 ods is a spreadsheet
[21:02] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/aJ0kw4K1.ods
 huh
 it also loads in my vm
[21:03] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Let me try with my spouse's Vollaphone...
[21:07] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> 1rst try with Vollaphone OTA-16 stable: App crashed when opening the above document (app has been well updated). Restarting device and will try again: Failed. App crashes (LibreOffice Logo 2 seconds, than it closes automatically)
[21:08] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Both devices got the 2.3.541 installed version
 564 is latest
[21:10] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Idem by Lionel Duboeuf and Juansé
 https://open-store.io/app/com.ubuntu.docviewer
 hmm, looks like arm64 build didn't publish though
 Its the same for .odt and docx
[21:12] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Interesting...
 @matv1 [Its the same for .odt and docx], yes they all use the same plugin
[21:13] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Maybe Lionel can provide you logs and further informations...(?)
 you should have 564 on nexus 5, yes?
 if not it still needs to update
 though if not, i'm surprised it didn't crash
[21:15] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/ZLWc55rC.png
[21:15] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Well, openstore says I've got the latest version...
[21:17] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @dohbee [you should have 564 on nexus 5, yes?], Correct...
 ok, if someone can get logs for a new issue then
[21:19] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @dohbee [you should have 564 on nexus 5, yes?], On Vollaphone it's still the 2.3.541
 @Steve Kueffer [On Vollaphone it's still the 2.3.541], yes there was a problem with building the arm64 version
[21:38] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @dohbee [ok, if someone can get logs for a new issue then], Done: https://gitlab.com/ubports/apps/docviewer-app/-/issues/56 … Many Thanks
 @Steve Kueffer [Done: https://gitlab.com/ubports/apps/docviewer-app/-/issues/56 … Many Thanks], can you try https://gitlab.com/dobey/docviewer-app/-/jobs/1118823711/artifacts/raw/build/arm-linux-gnueabihf/app/com.ubuntu.docviewer_2.3.564_armhf.click please?
 (that's armhf one, you can find arm64 under same pipeline)
[22:17] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/YV7t3YTY.png
[22:19] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @dohbee [can you try https://gitlab.com/dobey/docviewer-app/-/jobs/1118823711/artifacts/r …], Awesome! It works! Even if there's a special coloured frame (see picture). Thanks so much!
 hmm
[22:20] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Same with .docx file
[22:21] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> .ods file are perfect, no frame...
[22:22] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> .pdf work fine also.
[22:23] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Anyway, Thank you so much Rodney! (It's a needed feature for my work...)
 @Pasquinator [I already contactet fairphone, its btw a swiss company, but not yet got an answe …], Its not a Swiss company its from the Netherlands... See https://www.fairphone.com/de/legal/impressum/?ref=footer
 (Natural News) Hidden inside Microsoft’s Windows 10 operating system software is a keylogger spyware module that records the keystrokes and voices of users and sends this private data straight to the mother ship. … Another creepy “feature” of a software platform that was originally designed by billionaire eugenicist Bill Gates, the
[23:36] <ubptgbot> Windows 10 keylogger add-on was supposedly “intended for testing, not day-to-day use.” And yet the latter is what it became, though most users have no idea that it exists. … Microsoft reluctantly admitted when pressed that “we may collect voice information” and “typed characters” from users without their knowledge or expressed consent. We now know
[23:36] <ubptgbot> that the Washington-based corporation is doing precisely that. … “I said that ‘I seriously doubt that the worst spyware features will remain in the finished product,'” wrote PC World contributing editor Lincoln Spector. “I was wrong.” … The Windows 10 “speech, inking, typing, and privacy FAQ” section admits that when a user interacts with a Windows
[23:36] <ubptgbot>  device by “speaking, writing (handwriting), or typing, Microsoft collects speech, inking, and typing information – including information about your Calendar and People (also known as contacts) …” … Microsoft’s Privacy Statement reiterates this, though it contains all sorts of other information in the form of 17,000 words that requires some extra t
[23:36] <ubptgbot> ime and effort to fully peruse. … More related news about the tech invasion of personal privacy can be found at Surveillance.news. … Microsoft is guilty of committing treason with communist China … The good news is that the Windows 10 keylogging function can be disabled, or so it would appear. Clicking Settings on the Start menu’s left pane, follow
[23:36] <ubptgbot> ed by clicking the Privacy button, a Windows 10 user will find a selection box to turn it off – all the way at the bottom, of course. … “Once in Privacy, go to the General section and Turn off Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future,” Spector explains. … “While you’re there, examine the other option
[23:36] <ubptgbot> s and consider if there’s anything else here that you may want to change.” … To stop Windows 10 from collecting your speech, you must also go to the Speech, inking and typing section and click Stop getting to know me. This same area contains options for restricting Microsoft from collecting data from your camera, microphone, contacts and calendar.
[23:36] <ubptgbot> … “I wish I had that capability in Android,” Spector notes, suggesting that smartphones are prone to similar spying without the option to disable it. … It is important to note that Microsoft is a close ally of communist China, having worked with Huawei, the communist Chinese corporation that President Donald Trump banned from the United States thro
[23:36] <ubptgbot> ugh an executive order. … As we reported, Huawei works closely with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to spy on people through technology and artificial intelligence (AI). The company is also under investigation, or was, for its participation in the Iran nuclear arms agreement. … Microsoft temporarily ceased its partnership with Huawei after Trump’
[23:36] <ubptgbot> s executive order was signed, however the company later decided to continue selling its existing inventory of Huawei laptop computers at Microsoft stores. … The official Microsoft website proclaims with pride that the company deeply values its partnership with communist China and various communist Chinese corporations. … CREEPY Bill Gates strikes a
[23:36] <ubptgbot> gain: Windows 10 secretly listens to everything you s... … Hidden inside Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system software is a keylogger spyware module that records the keystrokes and voices of users and sends... … [Photo] … “Today, our most complete subsidiary and largest R&D center outside the United States is in China,” the website explains. “Mi
[23:36] <ubptgbot> crosoft boasts a robust partner ecosystem with 17,000 partners. For every RMB that Microsoft earns in China, Microsoft partners earn 16.” … Microsoft has also boasted that it is one of the major corporations responsible for “remaking the Chinese economy.” Meanwhile, Microsoft is quietly
 implementing spying technologies like this that would make even the most radical Chinese communist blush with envy. … Sources for this article include: … PCWorld.com … NaturalNews.com … I think you said that one of your computers had Win 10 on it?  I guess you should go in and disable that spyware and if you work on a Windows comput
[23:36] <ubptgbot> er for someone, you should tell them about it and ask if they want it disabled?  I think Gates should be sued!
 such off topic spam is not appreciated here @IdahoPhotoist
 @Flohack [Are you working on getting battery stats to work? =)], Yessir, but for the Volla instead.


[09:34] <Rhonda> sil2100, Laney, my changes seems to have worked yesterday. :)  https://deb.at/Uirssi  (sorry for being so self-centered to test with my own package looking at the page ;))
[09:37] <Laney> :D
[09:37] <Laney> Rhonda: thanks for teaching me about deb.at/Ufoo
[09:38] <Laney> it's a bit https://pad.lv/ like
[09:39] <Rhonda> I have the domain and always thought what I could do with it, so I did put some debian related redirects into it, I'm too lazy for typing longer. :)
[09:40] <Rhonda> There is also deb.at/Lirssi for going to the launchpad page.
[09:40] <sil2100> Rhonda: \o/ thanks! :)
[09:40] <Rhonda> or L12356 for the bug numbers.  See https://deb.at/ for the current offered redirects, most of them should be pretty self explenatory.
[09:41] <Laney> you win for being shorter than pad.lv/u/irssi
[09:42] <Rhonda> ;)
[09:44] <Rhonda> uups
[09:45] <Rhonda> Tested image googling myself (if that link still works) and found an image of myself I haven't seen before …  guess I have to poke someone to tell me when they publish articles about me. :)


[15:43] <qwebirc20584> Can anyone tell me how verify Hauppauge 2250's driver is included in Kernel 3.2.0-32-generic-pae?
[15:48] <tgm4883> qwebirc20584, are you running 3.2.0-32-generic-pae?
[15:49] <tgm4883> if you are, then I think it should just be
[15:50] <tgm4883> lsmod | grep saa7164
[15:53] <tgm4883> you're welcome
[15:53]  * tgm4883 sighs
[15:55] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: thanks
[15:56] <tgm4883> you're welcome rhpot1991 :)
[15:56] <tgm4883> I don't feel validated unless someone thanks me
[15:56] <tgm4883> although I don't usually care who thanks me, which is good, as sometimes I can be a prick
[15:57] <tgm4883> That is why in my office I have an "in case of emergency, break glass" case when houses a Canadian
[15:57] <tgm4883> s/when/which/
[15:58] <tgm4883> he's back
[15:58] <rhpot1991> could be someone else
[15:58] <tgm4883> from the same IP?
[15:58] <qwebirc4699> I'm sorry
[15:58] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: if it makes you feel any better I've been waiting for one of the users to show back up here and he hasn't
[15:58] <qwebirc4699> I asked a question about kernel drivers, then I disconnected...
[15:58] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, that is why you track their IP, request an address from their ISP, and hunt them down
[15:59] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: or just wait for him to show back up some day
 qwebirc20584, are you running 3.2.0-32-generic-pae?
 if you are, then I think it should just be
 lsmod | grep saa7164
[16:00] <tgm4883> qwebirc4699, ^^^
[16:00] <qwebirc4699> yes that's me. Thank you!
[16:01]  * tgm4883 pockets that thank you for a rainy day ;)
[16:01] <qwebirc4699> I emailed Steven Toth and he said it should be shipping with the kernel since v2.6.37 ish
[16:01] <tgm4883> I don't know who Steven Toth is, but that's what linuxtv.org says http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCIe_Cards
[16:01] <Zinn> [linuxtv.org] LinuxTV.org - Television with Linux
[16:03] <qwebirc4699> awe... he was working on getting a linux driver for the hauppauge in 2010
[16:17] <qwebirc4699> does anyone know if the Hauppauge 2250 has analog support yet?
[16:21]  * tgm4883 shrugs
[16:21] <tgm4883> I don't use analog support anymore
[16:22] <tgm4883> Also, not sure if I have a 2250 or a 1600
[16:22] <tgm4883> actually it's a 1600
[16:23] <qwebirc4699> why can't people just keep living in the past LOL


[00:12] <liuxg> has anyone successfully deployed a python project with installed packages like django? I have a little problem here. thanks
[00:13] <liuxg> sergiusens, ping
[00:55] <genii> meh
[01:01] <Chipaca> jdstrand: tyhicks: so it turns out the perl locale warnings of config are because it uses aa-exec, which is perl. I misremembered about it being deeper in the stack :-)
[01:02] <Chipaca> i'm wondering if there's any situation where we want to run config with the user's locale, and coming up with "maybe?" :-(
[01:14] <liuxg> Chipaca, have you tried to install a python project onto snappy system?
[01:15] <Chipaca> liuxg: yes
[01:15] <Chipaca> liuxg: I put it into a snap
[01:15] <liuxg> Chipaca, I've got a problem https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1523384. could you please help to confirm it is a bug?
[01:16] <liuxg> Chipaca, basically, I want to install some extra packages into the snap.
[01:16] <Chipaca> liuxg: looks like dholbach already confirmed it's a bug
[01:18] <liuxg> Chipaca, is there any alternative way to do it?
[01:19] <Chipaca> liuxg: well, I don't know why you end up with a symlink there
[01:19] <Chipaca> that seems wrong, for starters, but I don't know
[01:21] <liuxg> Chipaca, i do not know it either. I just simply use the tool to do it. In fact, it seems that dholbach also got the same problem for another project inside one of the examples of snapcraft.
[01:23] <liuxg> Chipaca, anyway, thanks for helping.
[01:25] <Chipaca> liuxg: normally i'd be able to look into this, but i'm only getting 5kB/s so can't realistically pull snapcraft i'm afraid
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[09:22] <mvo_> ogra_: is there anything with rpi2 rolling that I should be aware of? I created an image the other day and it does not boot. but might be a issue with pretty much anything (bad u-d-f, bad sd card). I will try again
[10:13] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Pretend To Be A Time Traveler Day! 😃
[10:46] <ogra_> mvo_, not that i know of, mine works here and has autoupdate turned on
[10:46] <mvo_> ogra_: could you paste the commandline you used? maybe I did something wrong there
[10:47] <ogra_> ugh, that was a month ago or so :)
[10:47]  * ogra_ tries to get it together again :)
[10:49] <ogra_> sudo ubuntu-device-flash core rolling --channel edge --oem pi2.canonical/stable --enable-ssh --device raspi2_armhf --output raspi2-rolling.img
[10:49] <ogra_> (i didnt have to use /stable back then though)
[12:03] <mvo_> ogra_: works now, thank! the --device was missing
[12:04] <ogra_> ah, cool
[13:41] <kyrofa> dholbach, when you're able would you mind looking this over? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/159
[13:47] <dholbach> kyrofa, sure
[13:49] <kyrofa> dholbach, it's a bit of a book I'm afraid, but I tried to make it relevant
[13:53] <dholbach> so far it reads just fine :)
[13:58] <kyrofa> dholbach, crap, I've never used snappy-remote. Does that just sideload via ssh?
[13:58] <dholbach> yes
[13:58] <dholbach> kyrofa, nice work - I didn't go through the example myself yet, but the text is just fine - I just added two small comments
[13:59] <kyrofa> dholbach, good ones, I'm fixing the snapcraft.yaml brief now, thank you! I'd like to be consistent with other docs regarding how snaps are sideloaded-- snappy install or snappy-remote, you tell me
[14:02] <dholbach> kyrofa, I just thought that snappy-remote might be easier
[14:03] <kyrofa> dholbach, alright I'll update that as well :)
[14:06] <renat> Hi all! It's renat from screenly. I have a question. Here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/filesystem-layout/ documented that application should create /home/user/apps/<app-name>/<version>/ directory itself. But I'm getting permission denied when trying to create it from the application. How that directory should be created?
[14:15] <davidcalle> mvo_, ogra_ , do you happen to know? ^
[14:15] <mvo_> renat: sorry for this mistake in the docs, the dir is created automatically by the generated wrapper and is available via the SNAP_APP_USER_DATA_PATH environment variable
[14:16] <kyrofa> renat, checkout the /apps/bin/<your_executable_wrapper> and you'll see it created
[14:20] <davidcalle> mvo_: I've just fixed it in the doc, but can you check the other fields of this table?
[14:20] <renat> Thanks. Now I can see it in the wrapper script. But /home/user/apps directory is not created.
[14:22] <renat> Ahh... Now I can see it.
[14:22] <renat> In /home/bubntu/
[14:28] <kyrofa> renat, right, it uses $HOME so it's whatever user is running it
[14:29] <renat> kyrofa, thanks. Is it possible to extend /apps/bin/<executable_wrapper> script to create other directories too?
[14:30] <kyrofa> renat, such as?
[14:30] <kyrofa> renat, remember the security policies are pretty tight-- it creates pretty much everything you can access
[14:31] <kyrofa> renat, but the actual answer to your question is no. You'd have to either do it in the binary itself or create a wrapper script that creates the directories and then calls your binary
[14:32] <renat> kyrofa, We need to share very heavy files downloaded from the internet between 2 snaps. So I need to create a directory, for example /home/assets. I've already modified security-override file. But I still cannot create that directory from the application itself.
[14:37] <kyrofa> renat, getting apparmor denials?
[14:38] <renat> kyrofa, yes.
[14:38] <kyrofa> renat, can you paste in the denials as well as the generated profile?
[14:38] <kyrofa> renat, (pastebin, heh)
[14:39] <renat> kyrofa, Sure. Understood. 2 min
[14:41] <plars> elopio: so I was able to get a test binary built I think, with go test -c integration-tests/tests - but it's not clear what I could do with it
[14:41]  * ogra_ would also sugest to have someone from the security team to take a look at your role changes to make sure they are safe
[14:41] <plars> elopio: it doesn't seem to take any args on its own, or anything like that
[14:41] <plars> elopio: not even the ones we talked about yesterday
[14:46] <renat> kyrofa, sorry for disturbing you. Now I can see that files created after I used "bruteforce" security config. I will try to revert everything back and if I will get any issue - ask a question again.
[14:50] <elopio> plars: it does, pass -h to it.
[14:51] <elopio> it receives things like check.f, to filter.
[14:51] <kyrofa> renat, no need to apologize, you're why we're here!
[14:51] <plars> elopio: no, it just tries to run no matter what I pass to it
[14:51] <elopio> plars: ah, tries to run the init. That's the news I have for you.
[14:52] <elopio> plars: yesterday I found a command check.list to list the tests. That's the good news.
[14:52] <plars> elopio: oh? where does that init get defined?
[14:52] <elopio> the bad news is that we are wrapping the gocheck runner because it doesn't allow to change the results reporter.
[14:52] <plars> argh
[14:52] <elopio> so I can give you a quick fix today. Or a correct fix in a couple of weeks, because we need upstream changes.
[14:52] <kyrofa> renat, do note, though-- it sounds like you're trying to use Snappy in a way it was not intended (sharing dependencies between .snaps). If you could share some more information about what exactly you're trying to achieve there may be a better way
[14:53] <elopio> plars: also I need to revert this init change: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/integration-tests/tests/base_test.go#L37
[14:53] <elopio> that one is easy, I'm starting with that now.
[14:55] <plars> elopio: ah, right. That looks like what it's trying to do
[14:55] <elopio> plars: it will accept check.f though, and run the tests that match after the init.
[15:12] <ogra_> mvo_, hmm, your sudo change seems to have broken the world
[15:18] <kyrofa> dholbach, I've updated that PR to address the points you raised
[15:31] <davmor2> ogra_: Don't try blaming mvo_ for your inability to use sudo correctly, you know it's your fault ;)
[15:33] <ogra_> mvo_, hmm, seems --ingroup can a) only be used once (only the first one is respected) and b) makes the specified group the default group for that user which c) omits creation of the "ubuntu" group
[15:33] <ogra_> mvo_, i'll split that into multiple adduser lines instead ...
[15:34] <mvo_> ogra_: thanks and *urgh*
[15:34] <mvo_> ogra_: sorry for that, I was not aware that adduser has these limitations, a bit disappointing
[15:35] <ogra_> its written in the manpage (i didnt know you can only use it once thouh)
[15:40] <ogra_> mvo_, oh, and btw, this group assignment is happening in the real /etc/group in the readonly fs so "ubuntu" is hardcoded there ... we might need to look if we can move the adm and sudo groups over to /var/lib/extrausers
[15:41] <ogra_> (i.e. if sudo and rsyslog actually get along with this)
[17:40] <elopio> kyrofa: build-packages installs them in the host, doesn't pull them into the snap.
[18:18] <kyrofa> elopio, thank you! Funny, I was just experimenting with that :)
[18:19] <elopio> I added a build-package, a stage-package and a node-package to my yaml. I'm getting a different error now, not sure if that's progress :)
[18:21] <kyrofa> elopio, hahaha
[18:26] <kyrofa> elopio, let's say I have a source tree that can build several things, and I want to create different .snaps out of it. How would I do that is the `snapcraft.yaml` needs to be at the root?
[18:26] <kyrofa> Just rename them as necessary?
[18:27] <elopio> kyrofa: yes, you can't currently.
[18:27] <elopio> I think we need to allow snapcraft.yamls in subdirectories, I send an email to the mailing list but didn't got many replies as I expected.
[18:28] <kyrofa> elopio, perhaps that comes back to your yaml-not-in-root question from ealier
[18:28] <kyrofa> Yeah
[18:28] <kyrofa> elopio,  I'll respond with that question, then ;)
[18:28] <elopio> maybe also supporting different yaml files in the same dir, but then the parts and install dirs need to be handled differently too.
[18:30] <kyrofa> Even something like make, use `snapcraft -f subdir/snapcraft.yaml`
[18:36] <elopio> kyrofa: yes, that's what I want.
[18:38] <elopio> the question would be where to put the part and step dirs. But well, those are details. We just need people to agree that's a good use case to support.
[18:41] <deenlee> this channel
[18:44] <kyrofa> elopio, agreed
[19:13] <camako> I have added the snappy ppa and did "apt-get update/upgrade", but I'm getting
[19:13] <camako> E: Unable to locate package snappy-tools
[19:14] <camako> when I do 'sudo apt-get install snappy-tools'
[19:14] <ogra_> what would "snappy-tools" be ?
[19:14] <camako> I'm on xenial (desktop). Anyone know what might be wrong?
[19:14] <ogra_> on xenial you dont need the PPA
[19:15] <ogra_> what do you want to do ?
[19:15] <camako> I'm assuming tools for snappy?
[19:15] <camako> I'm following a doc created by kgunn
[19:15] <ogra_> snappy-tools is a PPA name, not a package name
[19:15] <camako> ah ok.. he probably has it wrong in the doc
[19:16] <ogra_> anyway, what do you plan to do ?
[19:16] <camako> the end goal is to help him with bring up a mir server on snappy
[19:16] <camako> he was getting me started with snappy with some instructions
[19:17] <ogra_> well, install snapcraft ... that should get you everything you need installed
[19:17] <ogra_> (and technically snaps should nowadays only be built using it)
[19:17] <camako> further down in the instructions I see 'snapcraft assemble' so I guess you're right
[19:45] <kyrofa> elopio, I have two options: shell out to a binary, or try using past.translation to use python2 lib in python3. I don't like either. Thoughts?
[19:49] <elopio> kyrofa: can you start with why you need a python2 lib?
[19:49] <kyrofa> elopio, rosdep is a python2 binary, but it also has a python2 API
[19:50] <elopio> kyrofa: I think I'd go with the binary.
[19:51] <kyrofa> elopio, alright, thank you :)


[00:23] <ideomotion> can I configure kde to open a menu on mouse up instead of mouse down?  mouse up occasionally triggers a menu item on my mice
[00:23] <ideomotion> mouse down I mean
[00:29] <ideomotion> or have mouseup on a menu not trigger a click, which might be better
[01:23] <chamar> Hi folks, does 18.04 Kubuntu have a "minimal install" like the official Ubuntu?
[01:23] <ideomotion> yes I'm using it now and recommend it
[01:23] <chamar> Thanks.  Downloading. ;)
[01:23] <ideomotion> I used Fedora kde spin beta and it was a lot of work
[01:23] <ideomotion> just last night
[01:23] <ideomotion> went to kubuntu 18.04 and all the work was done for me
[01:24] <ideomotion> no offense to fedora devs
[01:24] <chamar> yeah.. I always remove kdekim and friend.. so
[01:24] <ideomotion> fedora kdespin is halfbaked
[01:24] <chamar> See.. I associates Fedora with Gnome.. less with KDE even if I heard good thing of their Spin too
[01:25] <ideomotion> tons of program crashes
[01:25] <chamar> really? Heard it was ok
[01:25] <ideomotion> well the beta
[01:25] <ideomotion> 17 is old though
[01:25] <ideomotion> I was using 18
[01:25] <chamar> ho.. they are.. what.. 28 now?
[01:25] <ideomotion> but the beta is due out soon
[01:25] <ideomotion> err
[01:25] <ideomotion> 28
[01:25] <ideomotion> sorry
[01:25] <chamar> lol
[01:25] <ideomotion> sooo many version numbers in my head
[01:25] <chamar> yeah.. story of my life too.
[01:26] <ideomotion> so all you have to do is go to the kde desktop.  put your mouse high on your screen, and while moving downward fastly, midway down, right click
[01:26] <ideomotion> it will activate a menu item
[01:26] <ideomotion> this should never happen
[01:26] <chamar> weird
[01:27] <ideomotion> you have to move down and to the right a little
[01:27] <ideomotion> in the motion
[01:28] <Guest61335> ideomotion,  yeah... that should be the default, because if someone doesn't want to do something they should be able to click the other and cancel the mouse action.
[01:28] <Guest61335> ideomotion:  Menus should open on mouse up... it's a bug for them to open on mouse down
[01:29] <[Relic]> waiting for 18.04 to be out a week or two so I can see if the move mouse left, dead stop on side of window/screen still affects it
[01:36] <Guest61335> ideomotion,  https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393663
[01:36] <Guest61335> ideomotion, I hope that helps and accurately describes part of the problem.
[01:37] <JMichaelX> anyone else finding 18.04 to be fairly sluggish?
[01:37] <Guest61335> ideomotion, you may also want some sort of anti motion for a certain period of time after a click.
[01:37] <JMichaelX> i am using a fairly old Core2 Quad 2.5GHz w/8GB DDR2
[01:38] <Guest61335> ideomotion, I disabled quite a few of those things on my computer used for drafting because I use all of my mouse buttons while moving the cursor and pressing keys...
[01:38] <Guest61335> JMichaelX:  To turn off the eye-diabetes the settings are now under display.
[01:38] <Guest61335> JMichaelX: That's normally the first or second thing I do with a system
[01:39] <JMichaelX> you mean turn off compositing, etc?
[01:40] <Guest61335> JMichaelX, I always do that... I found my little atom notebook could keep up with KDE4 but not even windowsXP
[01:40] <Guest61335> but only after I turned off the eye-diabetes.
[01:42] <Guest61335> JMichaelX:  It's also possible to turn off some animations under application style / widget style
[01:42] <JMichaelX> hmm. i just realized that the proprietary nvidia drivers are not installed. they were apprently removed during the upgrade?
[01:45] <JMichaelX> i am evidently using nouveau, in which case i am impressed with how well it is doing, despite it also being the probable source the problems i've been experiencing
[01:46] <Guest61335> JMichaelX: Ah, that may do it too.
[01:52] <JMichaelX> hmm, getting all kinds of errors trying to install nvidia drivers
[01:54] <JMichaelX> https://pastebin.com/BtU8RQDg
[01:55] <chamar> and.. installed!
[01:57] <chamar> humm.. strange.. the pacakge "openjdk-11-jre" is actually jdk 10?!
[02:03] <ideomotion> anyone know how to configure libinput
[02:03] <ideomotion> I want to prevent accidental menu item actions
[02:03] <chamar> not yet.. but let me know your finding :P My next target is my laptop!
[02:04] <chamar> Check out ArchWiki maybe?  it does contains pretty useful information
[02:04] <ideomotion> during a fast downward and rightward mouse movement, if you right or left click triggering a menu, it will activate a menu item sometimes
[02:04] <ideomotion> you can try it over a menu bar with left click and the desktop with right click
[02:04] <ideomotion> 100% reproducable
[02:04] <ideomotion> I was talking in the kde channel
[02:04] <ideomotion> down and right movement, middle of movement on desktop, right click
[02:04] <ideomotion> it will trigger a menu item almost every time
[02:05] <ideomotion> with my high dpi mouse, this happens often
[02:05] <ideomotion> someone please confirm this behavior
[02:06] <ideomotion> I think it's KDE specific, since it happened in Fedora KDE spin as well, and doesn't happen in windows 10 or gnome
[02:07] <chamar> well.. if you right click on the desktop, it will opem the context menu and will "activate" the option when you releaes the mouse button!?
[02:08] <ideomotion> in one right click action
[02:08] <ideomotion> no hold
[02:08] <ideomotion> yes
[02:08] <ideomotion> try it
[02:08] <ideomotion> initiate by moving fast downward and rightward and then right click
[02:08] <ideomotion> if you don't have logout confirmation, it might log you out completely
[02:08] <ideomotion> it happened to me
[02:08] <ideomotion> right click during the motion
[02:09] <chamar> I don't get it mate.. right clicking will activate the context menu alone
[02:09] <chamar> so it will triggered the action on which your mouse cursor is over (and it can be logout...)
[02:09] <ideomotion> right clicking during a fast downward and rightward motion will activate the context menu and trigger the action
[02:09] <ideomotion> and it shouldn't do this
[02:10] <ideomotion> it should only trigger menu items when held down
[02:10] <ideomotion> not when simply clicked
[02:10] <chamar> so you mean it will triggered the action without releasing the mouse button!?
[02:10] <ideomotion> people with high sensitivity settings on their mice have this happen all the time
[02:10] <ideomotion> no
[02:10] <ideomotion> it triggered the action without even holding it down
[02:10] <ideomotion> just a single right click with no hold
[02:11] <chamar> hum.. maybe you mouse .. everything seems fine for me ?!
[02:11] <ideomotion> I have a logitech g502 set to 3000dpi with a max of 12,000dpi
[02:11] <ideomotion> what is your mouse dpi at
[02:11] <chamar> mx master something
[02:11] <chamar> no idea of the dpi
[02:11] <ideomotion> that's 1000dpi
[02:11] <ideomotion> my dpi is 3x as high
[02:12] <chamar> could be it ..
[02:12] <ideomotion> yes but this doesn't happen in gnome or windows
[02:13] <ideomotion> most mice don't use high dpi on linux, because most mice dont' have onboard settings like gaming mice
[02:13] <ideomotion> g502 has a chip that makes linux run at the same high dpi settings from windows
[02:13] <ideomotion> without any install of vendor software
[02:13] <ideomotion> this is why I suspect the bug isn't being seen by most people
[02:14] <chamar> maybe.. I'll be honest.. I'm probably way stupid when it comes to mouse ;)
[02:14] <ideomotion> I just wish I could disable the right click hold menu item trigger behavior
[02:15] <ideomotion> it would solve my problem
[02:15] <ideomotion> the libinput manual isn't helping me
[02:29] <ideomotion> back
[02:29] <ideomotion> logged out since 22:15 in case someone answered
[02:29] <chamar> didn't see anything
[02:37] <ideomotion> I can't wait for Firefox to have tabs in title bar on stable and fixed up
[02:37] <ideomotion> doesn't work at all in 59
[02:38] <ideomotion> buggy in 60
[05:56] <Kali_Yuga> is it possible to replace sddm-greeter in plasma 5 with a different login manager? got an optimus laptop and switching graphic cards makes the sddm-greeter behave weirdly...I cannot login or sometimes everything is laggy so i gotta restart everytime.
[05:56] <Kali_Yuga> like lightdm or something
[06:02] <valorie> Kali_Yuga: yes, you can install lightdm, but whether or not it will work for you is another question
[06:03] <valorie> you can install anything in the archive
[06:08] <Kali_Yuga> valorie: well yes the other question is if I could even use it with plasma 5. like change the login manager in system settings or something? I never tried replacing a login manager before.
[06:09] <valorie> should be no problem with Plasma 5 at all; however we don't test with lightdm at all, so I have no insight as to whether or not it will work
[06:10] <valorie> we used it years ago when kdm was deprecated
[06:10] <valorie> however I am now heading to bed
[06:10] <Kali_Yuga> ok gn8
[06:10] <Kali_Yuga> thx for the help
[06:11] <valorie> you can sort of bypass the greeter by enabling auto-login
[06:11] <valorie> "help"
[06:11] <valorie> sorry I can't offer more but my eyes are closing
[06:11] <Kali_Yuga> well i gotta log out to and back in to switch graphic cards..
[06:12] <Kali_Yuga> yeah i figure out something eventually
[06:28] <Kali_Yuga> relogin after quit did do the trick. still kinda buggy so it isn't completely sddm's fault. but login out twice makes it work now without having to restart.
[07:56] <thatmuppit> hi folks
[07:57] <thatmuppit> just set up a fresh install of KDE/kubuntu - nuke & pave. been a while since I've used it, but looks nice
[07:58] <thatmuppit> a couple of things that I'm still getting used to
[07:59] <thatmuppit> my other machine is a fedora desktop - loaded KDE too - and I mush say what I dig about fedora is how unexciting it is - it just plugs away, doing it's thing with little fuss
[07:59] <thatmuppit> what I'd like to know on this kubuntu desktop is how to load online account integration
[08:00] <thatmuppit> on my fedora-gnome it was a simple case of authenticating my google account, auth my 2FA, and it's all loaded - chat, mail, calendar, etc
[08:00] <thatmuppit> on this kubuntu box, nothing seems to come that easy
[08:05] <Sparkiie> hi thatmuppit
[08:09] <thatmuppit> hey Sparkiie
[08:10] <Sparkiie> I've not used Fedora since its creation, so cant comment, so just saying Hi :)
[08:18] <thatmuppit> Sparkiie: np
[08:19] <thatmuppit> give fedora a go - it's like when you take the training wheels off ubuntu
[08:19] <thatmuppit> like an OS for grownups
[08:20] <thatmuppit> k. looks like I'm shitoutaluck. there's NO integration wrt PIN in KDE - (SSO) accounts, mail, contacts, calendar, chat, etc
[08:24] <Sparkiie> im only 40 years old haha
[08:24] <Sparkiie> I log into Chrome and thats it ;)
[09:45] <markc> I've installed a fresh kubuntu an a couple fo machines and plasma-nm has NO virtual bridge section BUT my current kubuntu-ci laptop does have a bridge section. Is this a feature of the upcoming 5.13 or am I missing some network-manager-* package?
[10:20] <kubast2> t
 @markc, by default it is hidden now  … you need to enable this option by right clicking at network icon in system tray and choosing Network Settings.
 (Photo, 800x650) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/T9mPvrL5/file_6327.jpg
 Show and configure virtual connections
[11:09] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:09] <alket> hey BluesKaj
[11:09] <BluesKaj> Hi alket
[11:47] <markc> Thanks to whoever TaurohtaRR is for helping me with my missing virtual connections problem in plasma-nm
 u r welcome
 this proble also bothered me for some time
[11:50] <markc> Yay, nothing holding me back from installing a fresh Kubuntu 18.04 now :)
[11:59] <markc> FWIW this is not desktop related but it is entirely developed on Kubuntu -> https://github.com/netserva/hcp
[15:16] <benvantende[m]> Heyla, I seem to have a change in the Samba behaviour in Dolphin since 18.04. I no longer see the SHARES in Network, but can approach them by looking up the IP. So smb://<IP_ADDRESS> does show the SHARE in Dolphin.
[15:16] <benvantende[m]> Doees anybody experience the same and knows what is gong on here?
[15:22] <BluesKaj> benvantende[m], use the "add network folder" option in dolphin network to get your shares back
[15:23] <benvantende[m]> thanks ... and trying as we type
[15:27] <benvantende[m]> Right ... got the picture, but it is basically the same as typing in the IP and the IP of my SHARE changes from time. AFAIR Network > Samba shares should list my SHARES
[15:28] <BluesKaj> I just list them in dolphin places on the left panel
[15:30] <BluesKaj> of dolphin that is
 probably worth looking to see if reported on bugs.kde.org
[15:39] <benvantende[m]> BluesKaj: You can only list by connecting an IP to the Network Folder. It is gone once assigned another IP by the device.  The behaviour before 18.04 was to show SHARES in Network > Samba Shares
[15:39] <benvantende[m]> It seems to be this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=392447
[15:53]  * benvantende[m] sent a long message: benvantende[m]_2018-04-30_15:53:10.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mietUzHZfZDZSZrVNQWrMpOK>
[16:08] <user|27977> Hi, I'm using kubuntu 18.04 and would like to opt-IN to the data collection stuff
[16:13] <BluesKaj> user|27977, what do you mean?
[16:23] <user|27977> Hi, I'm using kubuntu 18.04 and would like to opt-IN to the data collection stuff
[16:25] <BluesKaj> user|27977, i answered that question in #ubuntu
[16:27] <BluesKaj> user|27977, install Collectl
[16:28] <user|27977> BluesKaj thank you so much
[16:30] <BluesKaj> user|27977, yw
[16:34] <user|27977> BluesKaj do I need to start it? configure it or anything like that
[16:37] <BluesKaj> !Collectl |user|27977
[16:38] <BluesKaj> it's in the software center user|27977 , read the description there
[16:45] <om26er> Will "Discover" ever support snap app installation ?
[16:46] <om26er> I think there are a whole lot of Apps in the snap store that will definitely "boost" Discover's usability.
[16:47] <om26er> maybe I should be asking that in #kde-neon ?
[17:09] <assalat3> om26er, using Kubuntu 18.04 I can install snap/flatpak backend in Discover --> Settings. Haven't used them though.
[17:11] <om26er> assalat3: right, I am on kde-neon and had to install plasma-discover-snap-backend for snaps to show up
[17:11] <om26er> but still good to know they are supported by default in Kubuntu.
[17:11] <om26er> kubuntu: hey ?
[17:12] <Guest15782> good work on kubuntu 18.04
[18:59] <gpap_> Hello everybody
[18:59] <diogenes_> hi
[19:00] <gpap_> I have just switched to plasma and kubuntu from ubuntu
[19:00] <gpap_> and i need help about a minor problem\
[19:02] <ideomotion> gpap_: fire away
[19:02] <gpap_> in every restart tha plasma panel showing me the IBUS panel and the standard kde plasmoid for changing keybord layout
[19:03] <gpap_> now if i close the ibus plasmoid the keybord do weird things and not responding
[19:04] <gpap_> the by pass method i found was not showing the ibus plasmoid at the panel, but unfortunatelly at every rebooting this is appearing again
[19:05] <gpap_> well my installation method started from ubuntu minimal and then i installed kubuntu desktop metapackage
[19:06] <gpap_> it was nessecary too to change in sddm, otherwise plamsa couldn't start at all
[19:20] <o_a> Hello. Any idea when the updates to 18.04 will be available in 17.10?
[19:29] <diogenes_> o_a, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu
[19:40] <o_a> diogenes_: I've seen this, that's why I'm asking. How many days is a few days?
[19:41] <diogenes_> o_a, the range is from 2 to infinite
[19:46] <o_a> Thx
 Never could get nvidia drivers installed on kubuntu 18.04.  Back to Mate
[21:43] <acheronuk> o_a: "few" = however long it takes the Ubuntu release team to be happy that most upgrade bugs are fixed or not serious - that is across all *buntus. main and flavours
[22:16] <valorie> @tstechy -- how were you installing?
[22:16] <valorie> my nvidia drivers work just fine unless I'm trying wayland
[22:24] <ideomotion> I'm on kubuntu 18.04 with firefox 60 latest beta with title bar unchecked in customize. I'm using a 4k monitor with 200% scaling.  The close/min/max buttons on Firefox in the CSD are tiny. any fix or hack?
[22:27] <valorie> ideomotion: I found getting non-KDE /Qt applications to scale correctly was some work
[22:28] <valorie> there are ways in the application itself though
[22:28] <valorie> but I use Falkon these days and it Just Works
[22:29] <valorie> is that you, Brian?
[22:31] <valorie> there we go
[22:31] <valorie> hello classywhetten
[22:32] <valorie> welcome to Real IRC
[22:32] <valorie> :-)
[22:32] <classywhetten> Hey valorie!
[22:32] <valorie> by which I mean in a client not a browser
[22:32] <valorie> :-)
[22:33] <valorie> and in Konversation, the *best* irc client
[22:33] <valorie> IMO
[22:33] <classywhetten> I'm convinced, I like it.
[22:33] <valorie> cool
[22:33] <valorie> sec
[22:49] <valorie> classywhetten: since you are new to irc freenode, here is a hint to finding useful channels:
[22:49] <valorie> !alis
[22:49] <valorie> I use it all the time
[23:38] <ideomotion> valorie: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1458095
[23:38] <ideomotion> I just made that
[23:38] <valorie> cool
[23:38] <valorie> can you also make a LP bug and link that?
[23:38] <ideomotion> I also made a bug in kde that they duped and wontfixed
[23:39] <ideomotion> what's an lp bug
[23:39] <ideomotion> noob here
[23:39] <valorie> use `ubuntu-bug firefox` in the commandline
[23:40] <valorie> that will gather info about your system (anonymous of course) and take you to launchpad with some of that stuff prefilled
[23:40] <valorie> if you don't have a login there yet, it will let you make one then
[23:40] <ideomotion> I can't do that. I disabled it.  I can't let anyone know anything about me or my manifesto or my revolution
[23:40] <valorie> that linked bug will help
[23:40] <ideomotion> my privacy is paramount
[23:40] <ideomotion> :)
[23:40] <valorie> of course KDE will not fix FF
[23:40] <valorie> it is not their software
[23:41] <ideomotion> it was a different bug
[23:41] <ideomotion> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393695
[23:41] <ideomotion> tagged it dup to https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-57849
[23:41] <valorie> kde doesn't make Kubuntu either
[23:41] <ideomotion> it's really bad behavior
[23:42] <ideomotion> it isn't a kubuntu bug
[23:42] <ideomotion> it's a kde/qt bug
[23:42] <valorie> qt bugs the KDE devels do try to fix and send to Qt
[23:43] <valorie> sometimes those fixes are accepted eventually and sometimes they are not
[23:43] <ideomotion> they raged something awful in #kde when I referred to KDE as a DE
[23:43] <ideomotion> apparently it's a community
[23:43] <valorie> but Qt bugs are exposed by KDE software
[23:43] <valorie> they are not KDE bugs
[23:43] <valorie> KDE is a community, yes
[23:43] <valorie> Plasma is the KDE de
[23:43] <ideomotion> I miss the days of kde3 when it was just a de
[23:44] <valorie> like Windows is the Microsoft de
[23:44] <valorie> ok
[23:44] <ideomotion> I accept plasma as a de now
[23:44] <ideomotion> but I did give them a hard time
[23:44]  * valorie does not like mixing the community and the software they make
[23:45] <ideomotion> is there a way to debundle appdash, web browser, color picker, notes, activity pager, fifteen puzzle, user swoitcher etc.
[23:45] <valorie> ?
[23:46] <ideomotion> if you try to remove any one of those packages in discover, it won't let you unless you remove them all
[23:46] <valorie> !
[23:46] <valorie> sounds wrong
[23:47] <ideomotion> they are all little kde widget things
[23:47] <ideomotion> about a dozen of them
[23:47] <ideomotion> I only want a couple
[23:47] <valorie> can't you hide them then?
[23:48] <valorie> I have no widgets i don't want, and have never seen a widget show up unwanted
[23:48] <ideomotion> well I'm not actually using them.
[23:48] <ideomotion> I'm removing stuff
[23:48] <ideomotion> from the package manager
[23:48] <valorie> why?
[23:48] <ideomotion> less is more
[23:48] <valorie> ok
[23:48] <ideomotion> I used the minimal install in kubuntu 18.04
[23:48] <ideomotion> I like it
[23:49] <valorie> sure, if you don't need PIM, then it is great
[23:50] <ideomotion> a design is excellent when there is nothing left to take away
[23:50] <ideomotion> not necessarily a rule but I like the idea
[23:52] <ideomotion> for instance I rarely if ever edit an image and it's so fast to install, I keep gimp uninstalled until I need it
[23:52] <ideomotion> and then uninstall it when I'm done


[14:35] <ginggs> is there a known problem with arm builders?  stuck on cleaning
[14:42] <cjwatson> um, like maybe 4/40 of them at most?
[14:42] <cjwatson> 3/40 in fact
[14:42] <cjwatson> I've poked them anyway
[15:16] <ginggs> cjwatson: thanks