[00:47] <mup> PR snapcraft#4207 opened: requirements: update craft-parts to 1.19.6 <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4207>
[00:52] <mup> PR snapcraft#4208 opened: requirements: update craft-parts to 1.21.1 <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4208>


[04:03] <sethj> Could I get someone to review my (first ever) package here? https://code.launchpad.net/~sethj/+junk/silentcast It's pretty small. The packaging guide suggested I ask here.


[02:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2843 Bad merges (artful/compiz). Ready to build (artful/unity)
[02:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2843 Preparing packages
[03:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2843 Dependency wait (artful/unity). Successfully built (artful/compiz)
[04:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2843 Successfully built
[04:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2820 Diff missing (artful/appstream-glib, artful/gnome-software).  Release pocket (artful/fwupd, artful/gobject-introspection)
[17:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2820 Diff missing (artful/appstream-glib, artful/file-roller, artful/gnome-software, artful/ubuntu-meta). Needs building (artful/packagekit). Release pocket (artful/fwupd, artful/gobject-introspection)
[18:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2616 Release pocket
[20:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2820 Diff missing (artful/appstream-glib, artful/file-roller, artful/gnome-software, artful/packagekit, artful/ubuntu-meta). Release pocket (artful/fwupd, artful/gobject-introspection)
[23:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2840 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[23:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2842 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination


[05:22] <Jacques_Stry> Morning
[05:23] <barrydk> Morning everyone
[05:23]  * Jacques_Stry waves
[05:34] <Kilos> hi barrydk  aquarat  and all others
[05:34]  * Jacques_Stry waves
[05:35] <Kilos> hi Jacques_Stry
[05:35] <Jacques_Stry> Maaz: Kettle on please
[05:35] <Maaz> Jacques_Stry: Excuse me?
[05:35] <Jacques_Stry> ...
[05:35] <Kilos> lol
[05:35] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee on
[05:35]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[05:35] <Jacques_Stry> >.<
[05:35] <Jacques_Stry> Maaz: with milk
[05:35] <Maaz> Haha Jacques_Stry You aren't one of those that needs to drink black coffee to be able to cast a shadow!
[05:39] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[05:39] <Kilos> Maaz  danke
[05:39] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[05:54] <pieter2627> morning all
[05:55] <Kilos> hi  pieter2627  hoe gaan dit
[05:55] <pieter2627> goed dankie, en met oom?
[05:56] <Kilos> net kopseer vandag weer maar anders goed dankie
[06:03] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[06:31] <Padroni> morning
[06:31] <Kilos> hi Padroni
[06:31] <Padroni> how you?
[06:32] <Padroni> had some serious internet issues all week
[06:32] <Padroni> drove me nuts
[06:32] <Kilos> more nuts than you already are?
[06:32] <Padroni>  amazingly enough, yes
[06:32] <Kilos> headache day looks like. how are you?
[06:33] <Padroni> no double shifts this week
[06:33] <Padroni> almost starting to feel like a normal worker drone again
[06:33] <Kilos> lol
[06:34] <magespawn> good morning
[06:34] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[06:35] <Padroni> ugh
[06:35] <magespawn> power back at last Kilos ?
[06:35] <Symmetria> heh
[06:35] <Padroni> just found another government tender scam
[06:35] <Symmetria> internet issues make me itch
[06:35] <Padroni> I'm out for a while
[06:35] <Symmetria> thankfully I have very few of them
[06:35] <Padroni> gotta stop this
[06:35] <magespawn> i thought all govenment tenders were scams
[06:36] <Symmetria> magespawn they are all scams unless you're Malema or Zuma, in which case they are just good business
[06:36] <Kilos> yeah was about 6 hours one day then 3 the next now we have undergroung cables
[06:49] <magespawn> Kilos, hopefully your power will be more stable now
[06:49] <qwebirc28930> Good morning. any ideo how to choose between different dhcp servers on a single LAN?
[06:49] <Kilos> yes i think so ty magespawn
[06:50] <magespawn> hi qwebirc28930, each dhcp server will control a the entire lan or subnet if i recall correctly
[06:50] <Kilos> hi qwebirc28930  just hang here a while, guys still settling in at work
[06:51] <magespawn> so i think there should only be one server per subnet or lan
[06:52] <Jacques_Stry> think so too
[06:52] <Jacques_Stry> else you will have to split the lan into segments with different subnets
[06:53] <qwebirc28930> keyword being should. To me it makes sense to have one server per network, but I am not being assigned the same address as friends of mine on the same network
[06:53] <magespawn> i have a set up where one router gets its wan address from another, but that is then effect two different lans
[06:53] <magespawn> qwebirc28930, what address are you getting?
[06:54] <Kilos> qwebirc28930  welcome to ubuntu-za where are you?
[06:54] <qwebirc28930> <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:54] <magespawn> and the others?
[06:54] <qwebirc28930> University of Pretoria
[06:55] <Kilos> cool
[06:55] <qwebirc28930> they get 137.215.xxx.xxx
[06:56] <magespawn> and you are definately on the same network?
[06:56] <qwebirc28930> yes, checked it using the exact same cable
[06:58] <magespawn> what is your ip address set to dynamic or static?
[06:59] <qwebirc28930> dynamic
[07:01] <magespawn> qwebirc28930, are you on ubuntu?
[07:01] <qwebirc28930> yes, 14.04
[07:03] <magespawn> let me just check something quickly
[07:03] <magespawn> brb
[07:16] <superfly> qwebirc28930: in some cases you'll use different subnets, but from 10.x.x.x to 137.x.x.x is just crazy.
[07:16] <superfly> Also, isn't 137.x.x.x a public ip range?
[07:18] <magespawn> so maybe the others are on the wrong network and qwebirc28930 is on the correct one?
[07:19] <qwebirc28930> but they have access to all the resources of the university while I dont
[07:20] <Kilos> ai!
[07:21] <MaNI> you could try force a renewal a few times and see if it changes
[07:23] <qwebirc28930> how would I go about doing that?
[07:24] <MaNI> sudo dhclient -r
[07:24] <MaNI> sudo dhclient eth0
[07:24] <MaNI> (or whatever interface it is)
[07:25] <MaNI> it looks possibly like dhclient -s <ip> can force what server it uses but I'm not sure I've never tried such a thing
[07:25] <mazal> Morning everyone
[07:25] <MaNI> I suspect there is some way to have dhclient specifically ask for one subnet or the other - but I don't know how
[07:27] <MaNI> this isn't just a case of UP purposefully dishing out one set of ips to visitors and another to internal users is it? If it is they may have to actually add you to the list of allowed mac addresses before you are recognised and allowed in
[07:29] <magespawn> qwebirc28930 you can also statically configure your ip, but that means you will have to guess the settings
[07:29] <Kilos> hi mazal
[07:34] <stickyboy> Wassup wassup
[07:34] <magespawn> looks like Kilos is still having problems
[07:34] <stickyboy> Typical, Kilos is scared of me.
[07:34] <magespawn> hi stickyboy
[07:41] <stickyboy> magespawn: Morning
[07:43] <qwebirc28930> dhxpthe dhcp server is sending me DHCPNAK... off to IT helpdesk I suppose. thanks for all the help guys
[07:54] <Symmetria> mmmm
[07:55] <Symmetria> I tried to reinstall my one linux box yesterday and for some bizarro reason, the entire install runs through fine, but the box refuses to boot off the drive
[07:56] <stickyboy> Symmetria: :(
[07:56] <stickyboy> Go drink a beer.
[08:25] <Squirm> Hey all
[08:25] <Squirm> superfly: what would this command do?
[08:25] <Squirm> abs(hash('')) % (10 ** 3)
[08:25] <Squirm> in python
[08:26] <Squirm> Or anyone else that knows python
[08:27] <MaNI> 10 ** 3 - 10 to the power of 3
[08:28] <MaNI> % is modulus - so its dividing the absolute value of the hash by 10^3 and taking the remainder
[08:29] <MaNI> I don't know what the hash function does when its passed an empty value though
[08:37] <MaNI> hash('') seems to just return 0 always, making the whole thing a bit useless
[08:41] <Squirm> MaNI: I get 0
[08:41] <Squirm> All the time
[08:42] <MaNI> well yeah
[08:42] <MaNI> hash('') is 0
[08:42] <MaNI> abs(0) is 0
[08:42] <MaNI> 0 % anything is 0
[08:42] <MaNI> so you will just get 0 unless you change hash to take something
[08:42] <MaNI> like hash('a') would give you a result
[08:42] <MaNI> or hash(somevar)
[08:42] <MaNI> otherwise its all rather pointless
[08:43] <MaNI> its possible there are some implementations of python where hash('') returns random memory or something  - in which case it would act as a random number generator of sorts - but thats terrible and I hope thats not whats going on
[08:45] <Squirm> Ok
[08:45] <Squirm> I think I'll plug the box's IP in there
[08:47] <Squirm> I think I'll plug the box's IP in there
[08:47] <Squirm> Thanks MaNI
[09:56] <magespawn> does anyone know how to register a .co domain, and is there someone doing it in SA?
[10:12] <Kilos> hmm... now the connecting street lights, power off, connect one then power on and drive to next lamp and so the cycle goes
[10:16] <magespawn> nice, not at all disruptive
[10:16] <Kilos> lol
[10:17] <Kilos> 4 times already
[10:29] <Kilos> did  that guy come right with his ip prob?
[10:30] <Kilos> and did you guys teach him to install hexchat and join us?
[10:31] <pieter2627> he left to go to the IT helpdesk
[10:31] <Kilos> ai!
[10:32] <Kilos> at least he is on ubuntu
[10:54] <Kilos> wb mazal
[11:38] <stickyboy> Man.
[11:38] <stickyboy> Just fixed my coffee machine.
[11:45] <Kilos> well at least youve done something usefull
[11:45] <Kilos> very sad when there aint no coffee
[12:00] <mazal> Hi guys
[12:00] <Kilos-> wen jy darem mazal  ?
[12:00] <mazal> I am struggling to fin a way to get a list of active ip's and hostnames on my network
[12:00] <mazal> I have googled a lot but can't find a solution
[12:01] <mazal> I have tried both nmap and arc
[12:01] <mazal> Both return active ip's , but not the hostnames , and I need the hostnames
[12:01] <andrewlsd> Hi mazal
[12:01] <mazal> Anybody know of a command or app that returns hostnames as well please ?
[12:01] <andrewlsd> nmap will return hostnames via DNS lookups
[12:02] <andrewlsd> so if there is a reverse mapping of the IP to DNS, then nmap will give it to you.
[12:02] <mazal> andrewlsd: I must have wrong switches on the command or something then ?
[12:02] <mazal> Or I don't have that what you said there
[12:02] <andrewlsd> the only way to get hostnames from the machines themselves would be via a login or agent.
[12:02] <andrewlsd> e.g snmp /wmi
[12:02] <andrewlsd> mazal, test with dig -x [IP.ADD.RE.SS]
[12:03] <mazal> k hang on
[12:03] <andrewlsd> like: dig -x <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:03] <andrewlsd> for the IP you're interested
[12:04] <mazal> http://bin.snyman.info/gfehy
[12:04] <andrewlsd> or, dig +short -x <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:04] <andrewlsd> so , your answer section has "0:
[12:04] <andrewlsd> ... 0
[12:04] <andrewlsd> which means no answer
[12:04] <andrewlsd> QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0
[12:05] <andrewlsd> ... which means the reverse lookup for that IP range is not managed by the server you're asking.
[12:05] <mazal> ok , so on this network I can't get hostnames
[12:05] <andrewlsd> (which is <IP_ADDRESS>, basically localhost)
[12:05] <andrewlsd> try doing
[12:05] <andrewlsd> dig +short -x <IP_ADDRESS> @dns.server.address
[12:05] <andrewlsd> got to run, fetch my son
[12:07] <mazal> oom Kilos , you were refering to the website thing ?
[12:07] <Kilos> when mazal  ?
 wen jy darem mazal  ?
[12:07] <Kilos> o ja
[12:08] <mazal> Yeah , did a bit of wordpress , and I think that will do the trick
[12:08] <Kilos> good
[12:08] <mazal> Saw that I can make sub pages and all , so think I'm going to use that
[12:08] <mazal> Space limitation is my only worry
[12:09] <Kilos> size?
[12:09] <mazal> Has 2gig limit
[12:09] <mazal> But as long as I stay away from photo's it should be fine
[12:09] <Kilos> thats lost for a basic site without frills
[12:10] <Kilos> put your photos somewhere else and just add links to them
[12:10] <mazal> Yeah , is just if I add a photos section that it will be an issues. Will find alternative for that
[12:10] <mazal> That's the plan oom
[12:11] <Kilos> i have a site somewhere that was also free
[12:11] <Kilos> yola or something
[12:11] <Kilos> Maaz  kilos.site
[12:11] <Maaz> Kilos: kilos.site is http://mileys-site.yolasite.com and https://sites.google.com/site/mileyssite
[12:12] <Kilos> yolasite
[12:12] <mazal> Gonna abuse facebook , I think you can put a direct link to a profile's photo album
[12:12] <Kilos> try get one there i have lots of music and all there
[12:12] <Kilos> lol
[12:13] <mazal> Can oom check if you can see this album:
[12:13] <mazal> https://www.facebook.com/LewendeWoordCullinanRayton/photos_stream
[12:13] <Kilos> ja ek sien dit
[12:14] <mazal> Kewl , then it will work :)
[12:14] <Kilos> lol
[12:14] <mazal> Will put all pics there and just link to it from website
[12:15] <Kilos> yes then that leaves your site light and fast
[12:15] <mazal> Now , I must just go see the leader with my idea :)
[12:15] <Kilos> lol
[12:16] <mazal> Think he is going to be happy with my plan
[12:16] <mazal> Currently he only has facebook for info sharing , and that is a mess
[12:18] <Kilos> eish
[12:20] <stickyboy> Man, my eye is twitching. Too much work?
[12:20] <Kilos> lol stickyboy  you are crazy
[12:23] <andrewlsd> mazal, I think you can directly link to dropbox images.
[12:24] <mazal> hmm , yeah that's another option I can investigate. Although I never worked with dropbox , but I can check it out
[12:24] <andrewlsd> http://ryanmo.co/2013/11/03/dropboxsharedlinks/
[12:27] <mazal> Doesn't google drive also have a feature to share ?
[12:28] <mazal> I used my gdrive so long ago that I can't remember
[12:30] <andrewlsd> mazal, either way you'd probably want to create a dedicated account for them if using gdrive or dropbox, rather than "your own", so that if you hand the site over, you can give the dropbx/gdrive creds to the next person
[12:30] <mazal> Good idea , thanx. Have some options to go investigate now :)
[12:44] <mazal> Bye everyone , have a nice evening
[12:45] <andrewlsd> cheerio mazal
[12:45] <Kilos> ha you dont use tab complete for nicks
[12:46] <andrewlsd> Kilos: aah.
[12:46] <Kilos> maz
[12:46] <Kilos> some long nicks are hard to type out
[12:47] <magespawn> andrewlsd, have you used etherape?
[12:47] <andrewlsd> true, but tab complete it only works if nick is first.
[12:47] <andrewlsd> magespawn: am trying to remember
[12:47] <andrewlsd> magespawn: nope
[12:48] <andrewlsd> I normally just use tcpdump
[12:48]  * andrewlsd installs etherape
[12:48] <magespawn> i think that will give host names to ip, local computer host name
[12:49] <andrewlsd> magespawn: ooh, shiny
[12:49] <andrewlsd> magespawn: but only if the IP is DNS resolvable.
[12:50] <magespawn> so you still need to have dns for the local lan anyway
[12:51] <andrewlsd> yip
[12:53] <magespawn> i do get host names for some of the computers on the network but not always, so not too sure what is happening there
[12:55] <andrewlsd> magespawn: typically that's because some of the computers have associated reverse DNS entries.
[12:55] <andrewlsd> ... e.g when a PC gets address assigned by AD's DHCP service.
[12:56] <andrewlsd> or if you're running dnsmasq which combines dhcp+dns
[12:57] <magespawn> ahh right, let me check the router quickly
[12:59] <magespawn> yes, ther router is set to dnsmasq and local dns
[13:01] <magespawn> there is still so much to learn, too little time
[13:01] <andrewlsd> :-)
[13:01] <Kilos> hehe
[13:03] <magespawn> it is frustrating to be working alone, i really need to find somewhere to work where there are people who know more than me
[13:05] <Kilos> lol
[13:05] <magespawn> now i have to go and buy a replacement charger for a laptop, intellect stretching
[13:09] <magespawn> \wine off
[13:12] <magespawn> chat later all
[13:12] <Kilos> ok
[13:15] <andrewlsd> inetpro: you've been on IRC for a long time.
[13:15] <andrewlsd> ... I see your nick was registered 8 years ago.
[13:15] <andrewlsd> impressive
[13:16] <inetpro> andrewlsd: hmm... you only realise now? :-)
[13:17] <inetpro> andrewlsd: that was only my come back to irc back then
[13:17] <andrewlsd> first time I've gone and done a '/msg nickserv info'
[13:17] <inetpro> I actually remember using it as far back as in 1995 or somewhere there
[13:18] <andrewlsd> I used IRC briefly in '97, iirc
[13:19] <inetpro> some time after BBS
[13:20] <inetpro> those where interesting times when it was still simple to host your own BBS
[13:20] <inetpro> all that was needed was a phone line, a PC and a modem
[13:20] <inetpro> s/where/were/
[13:23] <andrewlsd> I never experienced BBS
[13:26] <inetpro> oh and then there was still CompuServe before that as well, IIRC
[13:28] <inetpro> and somewhere in between then and now was Usenet and many other NNTP services
[13:29] <inetpro> we've been having it! :-)
[13:30] <inetpro> and these days people thing Facebook is the Internet
[13:30] <inetpro> reminds me of AOL
[13:31] <inetpro> s/thing/think/
[13:31] <Kilos> you guys are the ballies
[13:31] <inetpro> ai!
[13:32] <inetpro> Kilos: are they finished with your street lights now?
[13:32] <Kilos> yeah we got 9 in this short street
[13:32] <Kilos> hehe
[13:33] <inetpro> so you went on and off 9 times?
[13:33] <Kilos> 7 about
[13:33] <Kilos> i think they connected the last 3 then powered on again
[13:35] <inetpro> ridiculous!
[13:36] <inetpro> seriously hope that was the last of your troubles with power now
[13:36] <Kilos> me too ty
[14:17] <andrewlsd> Kilos:
[14:17] <andrewlsd> Kilos: thanks for your help, I got "cloaked" ;-)
[14:18] <Kilos> cool and
[14:18] <Kilos> andrewlsd
[14:28] <andrewlsd> Kilos: hey, not sure if you got my previous "thank you", so thanks again.
[14:29] <Kilos> you welcome andrewlsd  only times i can help clever peeps
[14:29] <Kilos> looks much better with a cloak hey
[14:33] <andrewlsd> lol, ty Kilos
[14:33] <Kilos> now to work on the ubuntu cloak
[14:40] <andrewlsd> maybe when I get big.
[14:40] <Kilos> lol
[14:40] <andrewlsd> ... rather, "maybe, one day when I'm big"
[14:40] <Kilos> you were here long before me man
[14:49] <andrewlsd> cheers all. time to sign off for the day.
[14:49] <Kilos> cheers andrewlsd
[14:50] <Kilos> you gotta work on a night pc as well
[14:50] <Kilos> too much tv is bad for the eyes
[14:50] <andrewlsd> Kilos: my wife hits hard
[14:50] <Kilos> rofl
[14:50] <Kilos> get her involved man
[14:51] <Kilos> ubuntu women need new members too
[14:51] <andrewlsd> what, and leave me with the kids?
[14:51] <Kilos> lol
[14:51] <andrewlsd> fyi: adoptlove.org.za
[14:51] <andrewlsd> anyways. as the dolphins said "so long, and thanks for all the fish"
[17:33] <Kilos> hmm...
[18:34] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee on
[18:34]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[18:38] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[18:38] <Kilos> Maaz  ty
[18:38] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[18:38] <Kilos> Maaz  botsnack
[18:38] <Maaz> YAY someone cares about me too!
[19:10] <inetpro> good evening
[19:11] <inetpro> oh and hi to you too oom Kilos
[19:11] <Kilos> rofl hello my pro are you well sir?
[19:11] <inetpro> good good thank you
[19:26] <superfly> Maaz: tell magespawn I use gandi.net for all my domains
[19:26] <Maaz> superfly: Okay, I'll tell magespawn on freenode
[19:37] <Kilos> evening superfly  ThatGraemeGuy
[19:37] <superfly> hi Kilos\
[19:40] <inetpro> Kilos: remeber that!
[19:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[19:40] <inetpro> remember as well
[19:40] <Kilos> what?
[19:40] <inetpro> wb superfly
[19:40] <inetpro> oh and even ThatGraemeGuy... you ok?
[19:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> uuuuh
[19:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> think so
[19:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> :)
[19:41] <Kilos> lol
[19:41] <inetpro> ThatGraemeGuy: you been quiet
[19:41] <inetpro> Kilos: where's that sjambok now?
[19:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> vm where my bouncer runs has had no connectivity since tuesday
[19:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> just haven't had time to figure out why
[19:41] <Kilos> your friend has it
[19:41] <inetpro> ai!
[19:42] <inetpro> maybe better he left with it
[19:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> they had to change the virtual network interface type, seems like it might be a bug with 15.04 and whatever hypervisor they use
[19:42] <Kilos> ive decided that ill get further with my charming manner
[19:42]  * Kilos giggles
[19:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> probably kvm, unless some other hypervisor also has virtio interfaces
[19:43] <inetpro> Kilos: when is your membership board meeting, is that not tonight?
[19:43] <Kilos> yip at midnight
[19:43] <inetpro> yikes!
[19:43] <inetpro> horrible timing that
[19:44] <Kilos> im working on that too
[19:44] <Kilos> i just need backup
[19:44]  * inetpro will unfortunately only take part as a sleeping member by that time
[19:45] <Kilos> thats fine
[19:45] <Kilos> you always go read the logs anyway
[19:45] <Kilos> mr nosy
[19:45] <inetpro> uh... only when have have a spare moment
[19:46] <inetpro> I have*
[19:46] <Kilos> yaya
[19:46] <Kilos> i believe you, millions wouldnt
[19:47]  * inetpro does speed reading of many things in an attempt to stay up to date
[19:48] <inetpro> Kilos: so I'm good at beeing a jack of all trades but master of none
[19:48] <Kilos> lol
[19:48] <Kilos> in your opinion yes
[19:48] <Kilos> whatever ive dropped in your lap you have found a cure for
[19:49] <inetpro> unfortunately I've realised long ago it's impossible to cover all bases
[19:49] <inetpro> slowly but surely I'm learning to ignore certain things
[19:49] <Kilos> yes but when you find one you havent covered you go patch it
[19:50] <inetpro> maybe by the time I retire I will have learned to be the master of something
[19:51] <Kilos> lol
[19:51] <Kilos> it never happens, things change too fast
[19:51] <inetpro> ai!
[19:51] <Kilos> did you watch marks keynote
[19:52] <Kilos> big plans and leading the world
[19:52] <inetpro> hmm... you forget too quickly again?
[19:52]  * inetpro listened to that at 1.5 speed
[19:53] <Kilos> sjoe
[19:54] <Kilos> i had to listen twice to catch most of it
[19:55] <inetpro> I still have to go see other interesting topics as well
[19:55] <Kilos> i looked at belkinsa'a one too about getting more new members in
[19:56] <Kilos> 's
[19:58] <inetpro> wish we could get a number of members here to just jump in and take part at these events, there's a lot to learn, and there's a lot to do as well
[19:58] <Kilos> yeah too much
[19:59] <inetpro> but those times are not the best for us either
[19:59] <Kilos> i cant keep up with the youngsters though
[19:59] <Kilos> they type faster than i can read
[20:00] <inetpro> hopefully we will get there, one day
[20:00] <Kilos> lol when kids all married
[20:01] <inetpro> anyway, I'm off
[20:01] <inetpro> good night
[20:01] <Kilos> night inetpro  sleep tight
[20:02] <inetpro> oh and good luck with your first proper meeting oom Kilos
[20:02] <Kilos> ty sir
[20:03] <inetpro> Maaz: watch him
[20:03] <Maaz> I'll keep one eye on him for you inetpro
[20:03] <Kilos> lol
[22:30] <Kilos> fp


[00:28] <Unit193> It'd also be a bit nice if one could set DISTRIBUTOR or so, Ubuntu has http://paste.openstack.org/show/oZg7qNqZxdfsv8lXNevK but that'd be nice to have the option to set Ubuntu, Debian, etc.
[01:20] <bluesabre> jphilips: scheduled for tomorrow at 22:00 UTC.
[01:22] <Unit193> \o/
[09:30] <Unit193> Hold up, FF just hit?!
[09:45] <RikMills> yes
[09:47] <Unit193> I haven't looked at the schedule in months since it's not on the wiki, I guess it sneaks up on you.
[10:00] <ochosi> Unit193: a-ha, i wasn't aware of X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain (i'm also not really the desktop file expert)
[10:00] <ochosi> Unit193: what is distributor used for in practice?
[10:01] <ochosi> ideally create a MR based on that patch so we can discuss it on gitlab
[10:15] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libxfce4util_4.15.3-1.html
[10:16] <Unit193> ochosi: I don't know, I see glib handles it in Debian for X-Debian, and I have seen several Ubuntu ones use that too.  There's been a patch in libxfce4util since forever for that.
[10:20] <bluesabre> Unit193: yay!
[10:24] <bluesabre> Unit193: and yeah, I've been working non-stop day and night basically since COVID started, and missed that FF was here :\
[10:27] <Unit193> Urgh, condolences.. :/
[10:27] <Unit193> Kind of gathered you were very busy though.
[10:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Soooo...Tempted to slip in glade with that too...  Not entirely sure that needs it's own package, but it's still used yes?
[10:39] <bluesabre> Unit193: yes!
[10:42] <Unit193> Meh, pulls in webkit/etc.  So yeah maybe still an extra package.
[10:52] <ochosi> as i said, please submit the existing patch in a MR
[10:52] <ochosi> that would already help
[10:53] <Unit193> I mean...It's not fit for upstream as-is, soo...
[10:53] <ochosi> it could still start the discussion
[10:53] <ochosi> or submit an issue
[10:53] <ochosi> but only irc is sometimes not enough
[10:53] <ochosi> unless i end up doing the thing myself
[10:58] <Unit193> Issue would seem better at least, though just figured I'd ask. :)
[11:03] <ochosi> sure, one can always try
[11:05] <Unit193> "Nah that doesn't seem too upstream worthy" "OK!" :)
[11:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: Yatzee!
[11:06] <Unit193> (...Or the proper spelling.)
[11:16] <Unit193> ...So I'm going to end up with one package with delta, for myself only too. >_<
[15:52] <jphilips> bluesabre: thanks. look forward to it tonight
[16:07] <pleia2> updated the team calendar for it too (just moved the one from the 11th that didn't happen)
[20:52] <ochosi> thanks, i was just wondering why i didnt see the meeting in my calendar
[20:52] <ochosi> is it in a few mins?
[20:52] <pleia2> in an hour
[20:52] <ochosi> (sry, i actually still dont see it in my calendar...)
[20:52] <ochosi> ok thanks :)
[21:58] <jphilips> bluesabre: 2 mins to go
[21:59] <bluesabre> yes indeedy
[22:00] <bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[22:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 28 22:00:26 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:00] <bluesabre> !team | Meeting time!
[22:00] <pleia2> o/
[22:00] <bluesabre> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[22:00] <bluesabre> Who's here?
[22:01] <krytarik> o/
[22:01] <bluesabre> hi pleia2 jphilips krytarik :)
[22:01] <bluesabre> #chair pleia2 krytarik
[22:01] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik pleia2
[22:03] <bluesabre> hoping knome shows up since he had some ideas for this meeting
[22:05] <ochosi> o/
[22:05] <bluesabre> #chair ochosi
[22:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik ochosi pleia2
[22:05] <bluesabre> We can go ahead and get started
[22:06] <bluesabre> #topic Open Action Items
[22:06] <bluesabre> #done bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
[22:06] <bluesabre> #done bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
[22:06] <bluesabre> Not sure: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
[22:06] <bluesabre> Not sure: bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
[22:06] <bluesabre> I think I dropped the ball on those last two
[22:07] <bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
[22:07] <ochosi> Xfce 4.16pre1 is out :)
[22:07] <ochosi>  \o/
[22:07] <bluesabre> Way to go ochosi
[22:08] <bluesabre> Xubuntu Docs have been getting refreshed weekly, with some updates coming to Transifex soon, feel free to join us! (thanks jphilips for leading the charge here)
[22:08] <pleia2> nice
[22:08] <bluesabre> Feature Freeze was yesterday... we'll come back to this later :D
[22:08] <ochosi> :)
[22:09] <jphilips> will 4.16pre1 come to the PPA?
[22:09] <bluesabre> I think... probably
[22:10] <bluesabre> I have an experimental PPA here, in case you want to experiment: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.16
[22:10] <jphilips> sweet
[22:10] <bluesabre> It's not fully up-to-date as of this week's updates
[22:10] <bluesabre> But close
[22:11] <bluesabre> 20.10 won't include any 4.15 components, to be clear
[22:11] <ochosi> yeah
[22:11] <ochosi> wouldn't have made sense
[22:11] <ochosi> too early
[22:12] <bluesabre> On to the discussion-y bits
[22:12] <bluesabre> #topic Discussion
[22:12] <bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Council (bluesabre / knome)
[22:12] <bluesabre> So, I put out a call for Xubuntu Council nominations a couple weeks ago.
[22:12] <ochosi> (i'm happy knome brought up that story, i would have forgotten about it already)
[22:12] <bluesabre> The ML, as well as my DMs, was silent :D
[22:13] <pleia2> now is a bad time for me, as you might "expect" ;D
[22:13] <ochosi> :'D
[22:13] <bluesabre> Definitely :D
[22:14] <pleia2> I would like to hear knome's thoughts too, but maybe a time to consider switching back to the XPL model?
[22:15] <pleia2> though I'm not sure anyone wants that either ;)
[22:15] <ochosi> the question is if the project at this point *needs* an XPL
[22:15] <pleia2> yeah
[22:15] <ochosi> after all, we all have been around very long (with some exceptions) and "know what we're doing"
[22:16] <ochosi> although as knome pointed out correctly, I've mostly moved upstream
[22:16] <ochosi> plus all the components that "made xubuntu special" are now on gitlab.xfce
[22:16] <ochosi> (in a good way)
[22:16] <bluesabre> Yay us for upstreaming our skills :D
[22:18] <bluesabre> Maybe we should table/ML this for now, and knome can possibly appear later in the meeting to continue the discussion?
[22:18] <ochosi> i'm wondering - what has the council ever done for us?
[22:18] <pleia2> things do tend to chug along with people just doing their thing
[22:18] <ochosi> (i'm sad knome isn't here to pick up the "what have the romans ever done for us" monty python ring...)
[22:18] <bluesabre> Yeah, the Council has been hands-off since the beginning, which is A-OK
[22:19] <bluesabre> roamin' roman knome'n
[22:19] <ochosi> :]
[22:22] <bluesabre> Alrighty, going to move on to the next thing, and jump around a bit since we have several team folks here.
[22:22] <bluesabre> #subtopic Team Membership
[22:22] <bluesabre> Generally speaking, I'd like to expand this...
[22:22] <bluesabre> And jphilips applied a couple months ago, with little response
[22:22] <bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011972.html
[22:23] <bluesabre> Since he's been actively contributing and is on some of the subteams: on docs, bugs, social media, website (and probably more), I'd like to get him on the team.
[22:23] <pleia2> yeah, sorry about not saying anything
[22:24] <pleia2> the work has been really good :)
[22:25] <bluesabre> Since we don't add people frequently, and I don't think we have the process really defined, what's the next step?
[22:26] <pleia2> I think a meeting vote is fine, we have quorum today
[22:26] <bluesabre> Sounds good to me.
[22:26] <bluesabre> #vote Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
[22:26] <meetingology> Please vote on: Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
[22:26] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:27] <pleia2> +1
[22:27] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[22:27] <bluesabre> +1
[22:27] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[22:27] <bluesabre> !team
[22:29] <pleia2> well we DID have quorum
[22:29] <pleia2> wakey wakey :)
[22:30] <ochosi> +1
[22:30] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[22:31] <bluesabre> The 4th vote is always the hardest to pry out of our team :D
[22:31] <pleia2> hehe
[22:32] <bluesabre> Suppose I'll have to nudge people on the ML
[22:33] <bluesabre> #endvote
[22:33] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Add jphilips to xubuntu-team?
[22:33] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[22:33] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:33] <bluesabre> Shoulda added voters to that
[22:34] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to mail the ML about adding jphilips to team (3/6 voted in favor)
[22:34] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to mail the ML about adding jphilips to team (3/6 voted in favor)
[22:34] <bluesabre> #subtopic Feature Freeze / Feature Requests
[22:35] <bluesabre> So, Feature Freeze was yesterday
[22:35] <bluesabre> We noticed as we received the mail :D
[22:35] <bluesabre> There's a few feature requests floating around
[22:35] <bluesabre> Enable folder thumbnailing (LP: #1873268)
[22:35] <bluesabre> Log notifications by default (LP: #1874496)
[22:36] <bluesabre> And a whole slew of app suggestions
[22:36] <jphilips> well everything in this doc really :D - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hzvQURi8l--GrfqsxP9c0tWNUzrkbZjZTiVxGUegALg/edit#
[22:36] <ochosi> the notifyd thing is feasible now
[22:36] <ochosi> i added some settings to it so the log doesn't overflow by default anymore
[22:36] <bluesabre> Nice
[22:36] <bluesabre> ochosi: whats the minimum release we need for that?
[22:36] <ochosi> before that used to be a bit of a problem, users would have had to clean up manually..
[22:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, lemme check...
[22:38] <ochosi> oh dear, it's not yet released
[22:38] <ochosi> i wanted to test and merge one final MR
[22:38] <ochosi> but then focused on 4.16pre1
[22:38] <ochosi> so i guess that's too late for 20.10
[22:38] <bluesabre> :)
[22:39] <bluesabre> I've been thinking about how to best test/vote on the changes and additions outlined in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hzvQURi8l--GrfqsxP9c0tWNUzrkbZjZTiVxGUegALg/edit#heading=h.vc9bmc9pgxg8
[22:39] <bluesabre> I wonder if we should package up these changes in a PPA or re-spun ISO so they can more easily be taken for a spin
[22:40] <bluesabre> Is there a good platform (besides maybe a Google form) where we can vote on a pile of different things?
[22:41] <bluesabre> Or should we just blow up the mailing list with individual proposals
[22:41] <pleia2> google forms are very easy ;)
[22:42] <pleia2> but people do like chiming in when they really care about something on the mailing list
[22:43] <jphilips> google doc was shared with the ML over 6 months ago
[22:43] <jphilips> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-March/011876.html
[22:44] <pleia2> yeah, it's just a lot to consume at once
[22:46] <bluesabre> Unit193: welcome
[22:47] <bluesabre> So yeah, I think sending the proposals individually to the ML will help with the consumption problem
[22:47] <bluesabre> Lot of work upfront, but hopefully will lead to an actionable response
[22:47] <Unit193> Howdy.
[22:48] <ochosi> sry folks, i need to get some rest...
[22:48] <ochosi> i have a working day ahead tomorrow
[22:48] <jphilips> night
[22:48] <ochosi> ->
[22:48] <bluesabre> ochosi: have a great night/weekend!
[22:48] <ochosi> thanks, u2
[22:49] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre/jphilips to send individual proposals to the ML
[22:49] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre/jphilips to send individual proposals to the ML
[22:49] <pleia2> thanks bluesabre
[22:50] <bluesabre> #topic AOB
[22:50] <bluesabre> Anything else to discuss today?
[22:50] <pleia2> Unit193: would you like to add a vote? :)
[22:51] <jphilips> people can give their opinion to these menu changes - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/6
[22:51] <Unit193> I've been informed there's something that was voted on, everyone seems in favor so I guess +1
[22:51] <jphilips> patch is provided
[22:51] <bluesabre> Oh hey, quorum
[22:53] <bluesabre> jphilips: with 4/6 in favor, welcome to the team!
[22:53] <jphilips> thanks
[22:53] <pleia2> :D
[22:54] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to add jphilips to the application Launchpad and GitHub groups
[22:54] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to add jphilips to the application Launchpad and GitHub groups
[22:54] <bluesabre> *applicable
[22:54] <bluesabre> but we :D
[22:54] <bluesabre> Anything else?
[22:54] <jphilips> also opinions on adding a 'Sound' entry to the settings manager - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/pull/9
[22:56] <jphilips> there was the question about including qt5 libs in the default install
[22:56] <bluesabre> Oh right
[22:56] <pleia2> I left a comment about one of the items in Issue 6 (but that should also be part of the mailing list emails that will be sent out)
[22:56]  * pleia2 pat pat ubot93
[22:56] <bluesabre> Some background, qt5-style-plugins: Makes QT apps look like GTK apps in Xubuntu, but brings in some QT dependencies
[22:57] <bluesabre> Better default support, larger install size
[22:58] <Unit193> We don't ship any Qt5 applications, seems rather silly...  Also, that's rather deprecated, so wouldn't be the best idea.
[22:59] <bluesabre> deprecated is good to know
[23:00] <jphilips> as part of my recommendations of new apps/packages to add is keepassxc, which does include the same qt5 libs used in qt5-style-plugins
[23:01] <jphilips> the full list can be found here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/145vm29WnxgYm4Y_8guaGDAblZT5sRjZ3jhKRktgX1No/edit#gid=0
[23:02] <jphilips> this is its github issue - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/5
[23:02] <bluesabre> That's an instance where we should probably review and comment on the bug report to filter the list down a bit. We can indicate as much in the ML
[23:04] <bluesabre> So yeah, let's take the software discussions to the ML so we're not swamping everybody with a sudden list of decisions :)
[23:04] <bluesabre> Anything else to discuss for the meeting?
[23:06] <bluesabre> Alrighty!
[23:06] <bluesabre> #topic Schedule Next Meeting
[23:07] <bluesabre> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/groovy-gorilla-release-schedule/15531
[23:07] <bluesabre> How about sometime around 9/10?
[23:08] <bluesabre> #action Team to schedule meeting the week of September 10
[23:08] <meetingology> ACTION: Team to schedule meeting the week of September 10
[23:08] <bluesabre> #endmeeting
[23:08] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 28 23:08:07 2020 UTC.
[23:08] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-08-28-22.00.moin.txt
[23:08] <bluesabre> Thanks everybody!
[23:08] <Unit193> ...Are these seed adjustments serious?  Was this filed April 1st?
[23:08] <pleia2> have a good evening, all
[23:09] <jphilips> Unit193: yes its serious, see the github issue. was mentioned in ML as well
[23:09] <jphilips> night all
[23:09] <bluesabre> It's not an omnibus package, I'd say each item is up for discussion/filtering down/voting
[23:11] <jphilips> all are welcome to comment in the spreadsheet as well or the github issue
[23:13] <jphilips> bluesabre: is your 4.16 PPA updated once a week, so a new build will be coming out tomorrow?
[23:14] <bluesabre> jphilips: it's all manual, but tomorrow is a Saturday, so good chance I'll get some updates in
[23:15] <jphilips> sweet. thanks
[23:15] <jphilips> does launchpad not have any automated means to run builds?
[23:23] <bluesabre> Pretty much limited to on-commit (not ideal) or automating uploads from somewhere else
[23:26] <bluesabre> bbl
[23:29] <Unit193> bluesabre: Surprised you grabbed my -nocsd for your 4.16 repo.


 Not a fan of 2.6.38 so far either, tried to do some disk heavy work on two separate machines with the 2.6.38 kernel, and got lockups, one with an open source video driver, the other with NVIDiA...
[03:55] <TheMuso> May not be the kernel, but happened after booting the new kernel.
[05:39] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, awake?
[06:01] <micahg> robert_ancell: can I help with something?
[06:39] <robert_ancell> micahg, hey, was trying to get the-board to compile - since libmozjs.so is not in the standard path it has trouble with linking.  I was wondering if there was a trick to make it work right
[06:40] <micahg> robert_ancell: ah, take a look at couchdb, I haven't actually gotten to that point yet, do you need gjs for it?  I can upload to the gnoem3 PPA
[06:41] <robert_ancell> micahg, I got the latest gjs uploaded to the GNOME3 PPA, seems to work ok
[06:41] <micahg> ah, ok
[06:41] <robert_ancell> hmm, or it might be debhelper complaining: "dh_girepository: Package name the-board doesn't match gir format 1.2
[06:41] <robert_ancell> "
[07:42] <pitti> Good morning
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning
[08:12] <mvo> good monring didrocks
[08:12] <didrocks> hey mvo, how was your week-end?
[08:12] <mvo> didrocks: good, thanks! and yours?
[08:13] <didrocks> was nice as well :)
[08:13] <xclaesse> is it known that X crash when connecting an external monitor?
[08:14] <xclaesse> on a laptop (intel graphic card)
[08:14] <mvo> 154 reviews in software-center I count today, woooh
[08:17] <dpm> good morning all!
[08:17] <xclaesse> is it possible to downgrade a package, when "apt-cache policy" doesn't show the previews version anymore?
[08:17] <pitti> hey dpm, had a nice weekend?
[08:19] <dpm> heya pitti, yeah, very good, thanks. We went to the theatre, something we hadn't done yet since we moved to Valencia, and it was quite cool. Did you have a nice one?
[08:19] <pitti> yes, we did a nice long walk on Saturday, and yesterday my wife moved back to Dresden
[08:19] <pitti> so I'm back at home after three weeks of nomadism (Dallas, Prague, Munich) :)
[08:20] <dpm> pitti, nice, always good to be back home :)
[08:21] <mvo> pitti: home++!
[08:21] <pitti> There's no place like <IP_ADDRESS>!
[08:21] <dpm> :)
[08:22] <mvo> :)
[08:22] <dpm> hi mvo good morning too! We talked about it at UDS, but how has the review feature been implemented wrt to languages? I can see the number of reviews, but I cannot read them. I guess it's because they've been written in a language different than the one I've specified in my locale settings?
[08:22] <mvo> ::1!
[08:23] <mvo> dpm: yeah, that is most likely. the UI in this regard is a bit confusing currently unfortuantely
[08:23] <mvo> dpm: once the updated server gets deployed (this week) I can add a control element to show reviews in any language
[08:24] <dpm> mvo, ok, cool :)
[08:25] <mvo> I will do a bit more testing today with german, just to ensure there are no bugs hidding
[08:51] <pitti> RAOF: do you know why for a few days now dist-upgrade is holding back libdrm-nouveau1a?
[08:51] <pitti> (and xserver-xorg-input-{synaptics,wacom}, but I guess that's in progress)
[09:17] <RAOF> pitti: Do you have xorg-edgers in your sources?
[09:18] <RAOF> There should currently be no uninstallable X stuff.
[09:21] <seb128> hey
[09:22] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:24] <seb128> lut didrocks
[10:12] <pitti> RAOF: I used to, but not any more; if it's that only, then ignore me
[10:12] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[10:12] <seb128> hello pitti
[10:12] <pitti> \o/ our fridge doesn't look like a desert any more
[10:13] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[10:13] <seb128> you ran empty during the we?
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: no, I had been away for three weeks, and thus emptied it before :)
[10:14] <pitti> seb128: ~ sweet ~
[10:15] <seb128> oh right
[10:15] <seb128> you live as a nomad ;-)
[10:25] <smspillaz> RAOF: the driver should never send you uninitialized values in XDamageNotify events right?
[10:25] <smspillaz> because if it is, then I need to file *yet another* bug against the nvidia driver
[10:27] <RAOF> I don't see any particular reason why a driver should send uninitialised values in the damage notify, but I'm not sure if that's actually wrong.
[10:27] <smspillaz> RAOF: valgrind complains though
[10:27] <smspillaz> a lot
[10:27] <smspillaz> and it makes debugging a pain if whenever I resize a window I get 600 valgrind errors
[10:28] <smspillaz> RAOF: actually, would you mind double checking this for me?
[10:29] <smspillaz> RAOF: turn on "normal resize" ccsm -> resize -> mode -> normal
[10:29] <smspillaz> and then run compiz through valgrind
[10:29] <smspillaz> and resize a terminal
[10:29] <smspillaz> and see it valgrind just goes ape at you
[10:29] <smspillaz> brb dinner
[10:29] <smspillaz> let me know how it goes
[10:38] <htorque> smspillaz, seeing tons of "Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s) at 0x6F2CF94: ??? (in /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libnvidia-glcore.so.260.19.29)"
[11:00] <smspillaz> htorque: yeah
[11:01] <smspillaz> htorque: there should also be one like this
[11:01] <smspillaz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/560558/
[11:01] <smspillaz> this is the one that is causing problems for me
[11:03] <htorque> smspillaz, yes, that one's there too
[11:15] <lool> seb128: Hey, I'd need some help in debugging LP #709754; who do you think I could get help from?
[11:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709754 in indicator-applet "indicator-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709754
[11:23] <seb128> lool, hello
[11:23] <seb128> lool, how are you?
[11:23] <seb128> lool, thanks for working on that, seems we have some bugs with debug stacktrace, out of finding a way to trigger it or sending a patch not sure what you can do
[11:24] <seb128> try checking with ted or maybe mterry when they come online later on
[11:28] <seb128> lool, or try to valgrind it
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: is anyone working on the gtk 2.24.0 final release?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti, you? ;-)
[11:28] <didrocks> seb128: do you know if it's intended that vala 0.11.5 produces vala 0.12 packages?
[11:28] <pitti> it's got some GI annotation fixes which I'd like to see in natty
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: cool, doing that then
[11:29] <seb128> didrocks, yes, that's the 0.12 serie
[11:29] <seb128> didrocks, it wouldn't make sense to rename 0.11 to 0.12 for everything when it turns stable
[11:29] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[11:29] <didrocks> ok, seems that we should change the name check in places then
[11:29] <didrocks> thanks for the info :)
[11:29] <seb128> pitti, oh, while you are at it we can drop 061_use_pdf_as_default_printing_standard.patch
[11:30] <pitti> we can?
[11:30] <seb128> pitti, yes, they fixed that this cycle
[11:30] <seb128> gnome bug  560177 Applications should send print jobs to CUPS in PDF format...
[11:31] <ubot2> Gnome bug 560177 in printing "Applications should send print jobs to CUPS in PDF format and not in PostScript" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=560177
[11:31] <seb128> pitti, it was in the 2.23.90 summary
[11:31] <lool> seb128: I'm good, thanks  :-)
[11:31] <seb128> but I guess whoever did the update didn't notice by then
[11:31] <lool> BTW is anyone here going to FOSDEM?
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for pointing out; I'll drop it and check that it still works
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: curious that the patch didn't conflict then
[11:31] <seb128> pitti, I've checked the commit diff it seems alright
[11:31] <seb128> pitti, they didn't solve it the same way
[11:32] <seb128> ours was a hack
[11:32] <seb128> lool, didrocks is going
[11:32] <seb128> lool, do you?
[11:32] <lool> seb128: I can easily trigger the indicator-applet bug, but valgrind wasn't helpful (I did find how to run it under valgrind though)
[11:32] <lool> seb128: I get it regularly, every < 30s
[11:32] <lool> unless i kill gnome-power-manager
[11:32] <seb128> lool, you are uptodate I guess? when did that start?
[11:32] <lool> I think my system generates PM event in a way which makes this issue visible
[11:33] <lool> seb128: It started after restatring my system a couple of days ago
[11:33] <lool> But I hadn't rebooted in ages
[11:33] <lool> It could be there since a month
[11:33] <seb128> ok
[11:33] <seb128> lool, did you get the updates from friday installed on your session and running?
[11:34] <seb128> lool, btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/707917 seems similar
[11:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 707917 in unity "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [Medium,New]
[11:35] <seb128> which would indicate an issue in libdbusmenu rather than in the indicator applet there
[11:35] <seb128> ted has been fixing several issues last week so make sure you are uptodate
[11:36] <seb128> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-24&id=ed4605e597e8ac341d6fd4c60709ef4d88383fed
[11:36] <seb128> pitti, that's the upstream commit for the pdf thing
[11:36] <lool> seb128: I rebooted yesterday with a fully up-to-date system
[11:36] <lool> seb128: Yes, it seemed to be a corruption in libdbusmenu
[11:36] <seb128> lool, ok, so jump on ted when he's online and asking him what he needs ;-)
[11:37] <seb128> -ing
[11:37] <lool> I was a bit surprized when valgrind committed suicide when this happened
[11:38] <lool> seb128: Ok
[11:38] <seb128> lool, thanks
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: that looks fairly unrelated, though?
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, the commit or the bug referenced?
[11:43] <pitti> both
[11:43] <pitti> the commit and bug look like they belong together
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, well it closes the bug that till opened for that patch of ours
[11:43] <pitti> anyway, I'll just test it
[11:44] <seb128> pitti, ok
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: oh, that was just a weechat bug (didn't grab the full URL), sorry
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, oh ok, seems better with the correct url? ;-)
[11:46] <pitti> yes :)
[11:47] <seb128> great! :-)
[11:48] <pitti> hm, they tagged 2.24.1 in git, but didn't upload a tarball yet
[11:57] <chrisccoulson> b'ah, natty is seriously broken for me today
[12:14] <lool> So with compiz, all my windows appear as active
[12:14] <lool> I can't distinguish the one with focus
[12:14] <lool> Sorry, all my gnome-terminal windows
[12:14] <didrocks> lool: known issue
[12:14] <didrocks> lool: there is a pending fix, but that breaks something else
[12:14] <lool> didrocks: I did a quick search on the compiz bugs but didn't find it
[12:14] <lool> didrocks: Ok; good to know thanks!
[12:15] <didrocks> lool: bug #704413 FYI
[12:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 704413 in compiz "unity-window-decorator doesn't draw "unfocused state" of title bar" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704413
[12:16] <lool> thanks
[12:21] <seb128> pitti, well seems there is very few commits in there, maybe just backport the crash fix and upload that?
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> did you try the updated couchdb this morning?
[12:28] <chrisccoulson> hi everyone btw :)
[12:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: just upgraded, not restarted yet
[12:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you mean… you fix the crash? :)
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you shouldn't need to restart
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i fixed the crash ;)
[12:30]  * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson
[12:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you rock!
[12:31]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> hopefully it's all working now ;)
[12:31] <didrocks> will be able at last to work on oneconf :)
[12:31] <didrocks> \o/
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i tried running oneconf-query, and i see a lot of data now
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> so, i assume it works ;)
[12:33] <didrocks> and oneconf-query -u works as well \o/
[12:33] <didrocks> I'll never thank you enough chrisccoulson :)
[12:33] <chrisccoulson> heh :-)
[12:34] <chrisccoulson> hopefully it won't break again :)
[12:34] <didrocks> heh, right ;)
[12:49] <seb128> didrocks, oh nice we got a new couchdb maintainer it seems? ;-)
[12:50] <didrocks> seb128: oh, excellent idea! I'll be able to give him all the new bugs I'll get \o/
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> who's the new couchdb maintainer?
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[12:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you really want to know? ;-)
[12:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:52] <chrisccoulson> not really ;)
[12:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I got compiz, you can get couchdb :p
[12:52] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[12:52] <seb128> ;-)
[12:52] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson btw
[12:52] <seb128> how are you?
[12:53] <seb128> has a nice week end?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> i'm not too bad thanks
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> although, struggling with my laptop this morning
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[12:53] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[12:53] <seb128> what happened to your laptop?
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> bug 710625
[12:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 710625 in linux "Oops in intel_tv_detect when docking laptop, or starting X with it already docked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710625
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> although, i'm still not sure if it's a kernel issue. i just tried an older one and it still locks up
[12:54] <ricotz> seb128, hi, sorry, havent got to uploading the g-s stuff to the ppa yet
[12:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hum, not nice
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm working with my laptop half-hanging off my desk right now ;)
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> there's not much space when it's not docked
[12:58] <ari-tczew> didrocks: could you triage bug 688926 ?
[12:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 688926 in unity-place-files "Update dependencies on zeitgeist-fts-extension" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688926
[12:58] <seb128> starting the old linux doesn't work?
[12:58] <nessita> hello everyone!
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i tried that, and i get the same issue too
[12:58] <seb128> ricotz, hey, no worry there is nothing urgent
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> so, i'm a bit confused now ;)
[12:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, initramfs got updates with something?
[12:58] <seb128> updated
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a possibility
[12:58] <seb128> but thanks for the hint I'm not updating my kernel
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> heh :-)
[12:59] <ricotz> seb128, ok ;)
[12:59] <didrocks> ari-tczew: oh right, remember we got those and forgot with today's update. Will include it in next upload, thanks!
[12:59] <didrocks> ari-tczew: btw, I didn't sync zg-extension
[12:59] <ari-tczew> didrocks: You're welcome.
[12:59] <didrocks> but merge it
[12:59] <ari-tczew> okay
[13:00] <didrocks> as I told you the sync request was not correct :)
[13:00] <ari-tczew> didrocks: well, not everyone is perfect
[13:01] <didrocks> ari-tczew: of course, eveyrone makes errors and we should all respect that :)
[13:02] <ari-tczew> I'm looking for sponsorship for my 2 branches :>
[13:04] <didrocks> ari-tczew: can you propose a merge request and rebase against the latest ones? I'll merge them right away and will include in the next upload
[13:09] <nessita> seb128: hey! thanks for merging one of my proposals :-)
[13:12] <seb128> hey nessita
[13:12] <seb128> nessita, I didn't do the other one because I was not sure about it
[13:12] <seb128> right now kenvandine fixed the indicator-me entry
[13:12] <seb128> do you want it to be listed in both menus for a2?
[13:12] <ari-tczew> didrocks: do you mean unity case?
[13:12] <seb128> or should we delay the indicator-messages one? or drop the other one?
[13:12] <nessita> seb128: nopes, only messaging
[13:13] <didrocks> ari-tczew: the 2 branches of places, isn't it?
[13:13] <seb128> nessita, ok, so we need to drop it from indicator-me as well
[13:13] <ari-tczew> didrocks: will update later
[13:13] <nessita> seb128: when messaging is in place, ken said I should file a bug for him to drop the me-entry
[13:13] <seb128> nessita, thanks for confirming, I will get the other one in
[13:13] <ari-tczew> didrocks: what's the deadline?
[13:13] <seb128> nessita, did you have a nice we?
[13:13] <nessita> seb128: thanks!
[13:13] <didrocks> ari-tczew: no deadline, I think there will be no upload before next Thursday (or the Thursday after), so take your time
[13:13] <nessita> awesome weekend, tons of social gatherings
[13:13] <nessita> seb128: you?
[13:13] <pitti> hey nessita, good morning
[13:14] <seb128> nessita, I had a great we, quite relaxing
[13:14] <nessita> hey pitti! how are you?
[13:14] <pitti> nessita: good, nice to be back home
[13:14] <seb128> nessita, did you manage to relax your wrist? ;-)
[13:15] <nessita> seb128: yes. I still need to go to the doctor to get some physical therapy sessions
[13:16] <pitti> nessita: ugh, what's wrong with your wrist? too much keyboarding?
[13:16] <nessita> pitti: yeah...
[13:18] <seb128> nessita, do you have a standard keyboard or a nice ergonomic one?
[13:18] <seb128> hey mterry ;-)
[13:19] <mterry> seb128, hi!  Internet issues at my house, I'm going to move to a coffee house in a bit
[13:19] <nessita> seb128: well, is supposed to be ergonomic, but is not like those that have 'holes' to rest your hands
[13:19] <pitti> nessita: I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
[13:20] <pitti> nessita: I had a really bad carpal tunnel inflammation back then, and never again with this one
[13:21] <nessita> wow
[13:21] <nessita> pitti: where did you buy it?
[13:21] <pitti> nessita: my first one from a German redistributor (tastaturen.com), but as they don't sell that any more, I ordered it from the US
[13:22] <seb128> mterry, ok, not the best way to start the week ;-)
[13:22] <pitti> nessita: you can buy it on that page, too
[13:23] <pitti> nessita: takes two or three days to get used to, of course, but then you're going to love it
[13:23] <nessita> right, I will consider buying it next time I travel to US. Thanks for the advice!
[13:24] <pitti> nessita: and, it looks cool on your desktop, too :) (http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/photos/pitti-real-desktop.jpg)
[13:24] <nessita> hehehe
[13:24] <nessita> pitti: what's the difference between no-pro and pro?
[13:24] <pitti> (ugh, what an old photo)
[13:25] <pitti> nessita: I'm not sure; presumably stuff like more programmable keys etc
[13:25] <pitti> there is a list
[13:25] <pitti> nessita: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/models.htm
[13:25] <pitti> nessita: ah, the pro already comes with a foot switch included
[13:25] <pitti> (I'm not using that)
[13:26] <seb128> wiht a foot switch for what?
[13:26] <seb128> can you type with your feet? ;-)
[13:26] <nessita> exactly, can you?
[13:27] <nessita> you can actually pedal it!
[13:27]  * seb128 imagines nessita type with hands and feet at the same time
[13:27] <pitti> seb128: you can put stuff like ctrl or enter on that, or perhaps escape for the Vim'ers  :)
[13:27] <pitti> but that seemed a little too obscure for me
[13:27] <pitti> and I usually put my feet on the chair anyway
[13:28] <pitti> nessita: and if that isn't good enough yet, check this out: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm :)
[13:28] <ari-tczew> I have a question about unity. are you going to prepare special patches for these packages? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Changes%20to%20other%20applications
[13:30] <nessita> pitti: that is for aliens
[13:30] <nessita> :-)
[13:30] <pitti> nessita: I'd love to try those, but I certainly won't buy them
[13:30] <pitti> nessita: advantage is, you don't need to bother with passwords and the like :)
[13:31] <nessita> jejeje
[13:31] <nessita> true
[13:32] <pitti> I'm offline for a bit to do some suspend tests for a bug report, bbl
[13:50] <Amaranth> ari-tczew: I imagine it's more "these would be nice to get patches for"
[13:55] <ari-tczew> Amaranth: don't kidding, upstream won't prepare special patches for Canonical ideas
[13:57] <Amaranth> Who said it would be upstream doing it?
[13:57] <Amaranth> They've identified applications they think should be using the messaging menu and patched the ones that are installed by default. If anyone else is using, say, xchat-gnome, and wants it to work with this they can write a patch
[13:58] <seb128> why wouldn't upstream do work to get their code works better on ubuntu?
[13:58] <seb128> which has been done in the xchat and -gnome cases
[13:59] <Amaranth> xchat-gnome has an upstream?
[13:59] <Amaranth> I thought it was just kept around because we all use it :)
[13:59] <seb128> not really but kenvandine wrote xchat-gnome-indicator
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> and is also happening in the mozilla case (for thunderbird)
[14:00] <Amaranth> yeah, that thing was almost as broken as evolution's handling of the messaging menu :/
[14:01] <kenvandine> xchat-gnome has an upstream, they merged all my patches last year
[14:01] <kenvandine> just not good about releases
[14:02] <Amaranth> Well, I suppose the messaging menu and notifications worked correctly with thunderbird, it just showed its own notifications as well and wouldn't activate from the messaging menu
[14:02] <Amaranth> evolution on the other hand doesn't update the messaging menu when my second mail account gets mail
[14:02] <Amaranth> I should see if there is a bug report about that
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth, you mean, with the third party extension for thunderbird?
[14:03] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: yeah
[14:03] <Amaranth> It's called libnotify-xulrunner or something
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i took a look at that
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> it has some issues though.we want to integrate it properly really ;)
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> (which could still be another extension for now)
[14:04] <Amaranth> hrm, evolution using 1GB of RAM again
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> but not one that spawns a python helper and sends data down a pipe to it, and then raises the thunderbird window when you click on an entry by just running /usr/bin/thunderbird ;)
[14:05] <Amaranth> I only have 300k messages in there, come on evolution :)
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> lol
[14:08] <didrocks> Amaranth: you second account was POP or IMAP?
[14:08] <Amaranth> didrocks: both are imapx (gmail)
[14:09] <didrocks> Amaranth: ok, I don't have a clue about this bug, 2 imapx here and it's working :)
[14:09] <Amaranth> On the bright side, I have an excuse for not checking work mail
[14:09] <didrocks> if both are gmail, I should check the code though
[14:09] <didrocks> ahah, work email != gmail for me :)
[14:10] <Amaranth> it's google apps for your domain or whatever
[14:12] <Amaranth> hmm, actually I just got a bunch of bug mail on my main account and the icon didn't go green for that either
[14:21] <seb128> is libreoffice screwing unity for others as well?
[14:37] <seb128> nessita, u-c-p uploaded
[14:38] <seb128> nessita, is that wanted that the icon you use in the messaging menu is colored?
[14:38] <seb128> none of the other default ones are
[14:39] <nessita> seb128: I think, though I should confirm with ivanka
[14:40] <nessita> ivanka: hi there, you around?
[14:40] <ivanka> nessita: hi - what's up?
[14:41] <seb128> nessita, there is also no ">" next to it when the controlpanel is running
[14:41] <seb128> like it does for other softwares in that menu
[14:42] <nessita> ivanka: hi! quick question. We added Ubuntu One to the messaging menu like we discussed on Dallas. I used the default U1 icon, which is colored, but seb128 is telling me that the other app have a non colored icon
[14:44] <nessita> seb128: are we supposed to add the '>' by hand?
[14:44] <kenvandine> nessita, that comes when the indicator knows your service is running
[14:44] <seb128> kenvandine, tedg: ^
[14:45] <kenvandine> i think that matches based on the desktop file you set
[14:45] <nessita> kenvandine: so, when the u1cp is running the messaging menu should do all the style changes by its own, right?
[14:46] <tedg> nessita, Yes, there is sometimes a "${app icon}-panel" variant as well.
[14:46] <kenvandine> it should add the little > to it
[14:46] <tedg> nessita, But it needs to be in the icon themes as there needs to be a light and dark one.
[14:46] <nessita> tedg: ok, I'll ask ivanka for those icons
[14:46] <ivanka> nessita: I was about to say
[14:47] <seb128> hey tedg
[14:47] <ivanka> can you file a bug for us to review the icons?
[14:47] <seb128> tedg, lool was looking for you
[14:47] <tedg> Good morning seb128
[14:47] <nessita> ivanka: of course!
[14:47] <seb128> lool, ^ ted is there ;-)
[14:47] <seb128> tedg, how are you?
[14:47] <tedg> seb128, Oh, ask him to stop! ;)
[14:47] <lool> tedg: Hey
[14:47] <ivanka> nessita: also, according to this (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Application%20sections) it could be in colour as monochrome is reserved for default apps, though for ubuntu one we might want to make a monochrome one
[14:47] <tedg> Well, though it was 75F this weekend and projected 25F tomorrow.  I'm scared of what tomorrow may bring ;)
[14:48] <seb128> lol
[14:48] <lool> tedg: I have a reproducible crasher with indicator-applet which seems to point at some libdbusmenu issues; I couldn't find out what's going with valgrind an gdb, and was hoping you might have better ideas on how to debug it
[14:48] <nessita> ivanka: how should I refer to that icon? 'messaging menu icon'?
[14:48] <ivanka> nessita: yeah - that will do, I am sure
[14:49] <lool> tedg: LP #709754
[14:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709754 in indicator-applet "indicator-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in g_simple_async_result_complete()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709754
[14:49]  * tedg clicks
[14:49] <lool> tedg: Apparently, there are similar issues against other programs using libdbusmenu like compiz
[14:49] <seb128> compiz -> unity rather
[14:50] <lool> err sorry, yes unity
[14:50] <lool> it's the same thing anyway
[14:50] <lool> ;-)
[14:50] <nessita> ivanka: bug #710690
[14:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 710690 in ubuntuone-control-panel "We need icons for the messaging menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710690
[14:51] <tedg> Hmm, I'm guessing that DbusmenuClientPrivate shouldn't be at 0xaaaaaaaa  :)
[14:51] <lool> Yes
[14:51] <lool> valgrind just dies at the same time as the segfault occurs
[14:52] <tedg> Hmm, that's not useful.
[14:52] <tedg> lool, You can reproduce, right?
[14:52] <lool> tedg: I did setup a break at hte time where the callback gets registered, and the client values were correct
[14:52] <lool> tedg: yes
[14:52] <tedg> lool, Okay, let me try something.  Just a sec.
[14:52] <lool> tedg: apparently my gnome-power-manager triggers dbus events at a pace and in a sequence which triggers this frequently
[15:03] <tedg> lool, Can you try this dbusmenu branch?  lp:~ted/dbusmenu/reference-with-update
[15:05] <chrisccoulson> grrrr, moonlight is really causing me a headache
[15:06] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: don't work at night
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> davmor2, wrong moonlight ;)
[15:08] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: I know I just couldn't resist I tried :)
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> heh :-)
[15:10] <lool> tedg: FYI make -j2 fails; must be some race somewhere; make worked
[15:11] <lool> Sorry make -j2 install failed; didn't try plain make -j2
[15:11] <tedg> lool, Yeah I believe there's a patch on my TODO in the bugtracker for that.
[15:12] <lool> tedg: Hmm ldd /usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet | grep -i dbus returns nothing
[15:12] <lool> tedg: Which programs should I use the new shared libs in?
[15:12] <tedg> lool, Yes, it loads .so's from /usr/lib/indicators/ that pull in dbusmenu
[15:13] <tedg> lool, bug 709762
[15:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709762 in dbusmenu "Make building dbusmenu parallel-make safe" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709762
[15:14] <lool> tedg: Nope, died
[15:15] <lool> I confirmed that I used libs from my home in the crashing process
[15:15] <lool> 7fc692c90000-7fc692c91000 rw-p 0000e000 00:15 2238525                    /home/lool/scratch/libdbusmenu-glib3/reference-with-update/prefix/lib/libdbusmenu-gtk.so.3.0.2
[15:15] <lool> 7fc692c8f000-7fc692c90000 r--p 0000d000 00:15 2238525                    /home/lool/scratch/libdbusmenu-glib3/reference-with-update/prefix/lib/libdbusmenu-gtk.so.3.0.2
[15:15] <lool> etc.
[15:16] <lool> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$PWD:prefix/lib /usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet
[15:16] <lool> => SEGV
[15:16] <tedg> lool, Same backtrace?
[15:17] <lool> checking
[15:17] <lool> tedg: Ah no!
[15:18] <lool> tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/560639/
[15:18] <seb128> mterry, hello again
[15:18] <seb128> mterry, did you pilot on friday?
[15:18] <lool> (gdb) print priv
[15:18] <lool> $1 = (DbusmenuGtkMenuPrivate *) 0xaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[15:19] <lool> tedg: Seems like the same problem in a different code path
[15:19] <mterry> seb128, oh no.  :(  I didn't
[15:19] <mterry> seb128, hrm, let me see if there's a gap coming up that I can take instead
[15:19] <seb128> mterry, ok, what I though, seems you are not the only one who forgot recently
[15:20] <seb128> mterry, there is 3 requests showing up on http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
[15:20] <seb128> mterry, if you want to catch up today ;-)
[15:20] <tedg> lool, Okay, let me trace that down.  Just a sec.
[15:21] <mterry> seb128, tomorrow, pitti is only reviewer, I can put myself in for the other half day
[15:21] <mterry> except, i can't change calendar
[15:22] <seb128> mterry, yeah, sure, I don't think we want to pick on anyone don't worry
[15:22] <desrt> good morning, everyone
[15:22] <seb128> mterry, ask dholbach I guess
[15:22] <seb128> hey desrt
[15:22] <mvo> seb128: quick question, on your french desktop, does software-center show the short description (in the application list e.g. after a search) in french?
[15:22] <mvo> hey desrt
[15:22] <desrt> david barth is around today?
[15:22] <seb128> mvo, it does for some
[15:22] <seb128> mvo, so I guess it's using translations where there is one
[15:22] <mvo> seb128: gimp?
[15:22] <seb128> desrt, he's dbarth_
[15:23] <desrt> heh.  of course.
[15:23] <seb128> mvo, gimp title and 1 liner description are in french
[15:23] <mvo> thanks seb128 :)
[15:24] <seb128> mvo, yw
[15:24] <lool> So my compiz hangs from time to time
[15:24] <lool> It just hung again, and I got a backtrace this time around
[15:24] <lool> it seemed ot be stuck waiting for vsync
[15:25] <lool> I think that's the last major issue I had these days with natty desktop
[15:25] <seb128> lool, wait for didrocks to be back and ask him, he's the one tracking compiz issues nowadays
[15:25] <seb128> speaking of who
[15:25] <lool> :-)
[15:25] <lool> didrocks: Hey
[15:25] <kklimonda>  /join #launchpad
[15:25] <lool> didrocks: 16:24 < lool> So my compiz hangs from time to time
[15:25] <seb128> lool, do you have a stacktrace?
[15:25] <lool> 16:24 < lool> It just hung again, and I got a backtrace this time around
[15:25] <lool> 16:24 < lool> it seemed ot be stuck waiting for vsync
[15:25] <lool> 16:25 < lool> I think that's the last major issue I had these days with natty  desktop
[15:25] <didrocks> hey lool
[15:25] <lool> seb128: I have one, but can't copy-paste it
[15:25] <kklimonda> good afternoone everyone :)
[15:26] <didrocks> lool: does your cursor is still refreshed?
[15:26] <didrocks> is*
[15:26] <didrocks> and can you type with the keyboard?
[15:26] <lool> privateforglscreen::waitforvideosync() in /usr/lib/compiz/libopengl.so
[15:26] <didrocks> ok, not the same then
[15:26] <lool> didrocks: I can't type with the keyboard
[15:26] <didrocks> because I've just got a crash because of that :)
[15:27] <lool> didrocks: it did crash after a while while I was gdb-ing
[15:27] <didrocks> (adn that's another issue IMHO)
[15:27] <didrocks> ok, just file the bug report and paste the link there
[15:28] <didrocks> hoping that you gdb 2>&1 | tee log :)
[15:30] <seb128> hey kklimonda
[15:30] <seb128> how are you?
[15:31] <kklimonda> seb128: I'm starting to miss sun :/
[15:31] <kklimonda> seb128: but fine nevertheless
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, did you fix mongodb yet? :-D
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> j/k ;)
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and take a look at that later
[15:33] <mterry> tedg, heyo.  When an indicator is loaded in unity, it's in-process with unity-panel-service, and the panel service does the actual popping up of menus, right?  When an indicator is loaded in gnome (via it's gnome applet), it's in-process with the applet, but I'm having trouble finding out what actually is doing the popping of menus
[15:33] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I was fighting with libevent2 yesterday.
[15:33] <kklimonda> but it may be hopeless :/
[15:34] <kklimonda> so I may end up asking T dev to bundle libevent2 with transmission 2.20 as they did before
[15:34] <tedg> mterry, The applet does it -- more simply in that GTK just does it for us in that case.  We attach the menu to the menuitem we create in the applet.
[15:37] <didrocks> is ubuntu one contact in evolution working for anyone on natty?
[15:38] <mterry> tedg, ok, will look for that code
[15:48] <lool> didrocks: I did not tee the gdb output!  I'm not sure I can reproduce easily
[15:48] <lool> didrocks: it happens fairly unfrequently, usually when maximizing windows like chromium or bzr vis preview
[15:48] <seb128> lool, did you get apport catching it?
[15:48] <lool> seb128: No; it just hangs, doesn't crash
[15:48] <didrocks> lool: hum… ok, think about enabling apport and kill -11 rather?
[15:48] <lool> I could run apport on it
[15:48] <seb128> well sig11 it
[15:48] <lool> Ok
[15:49]  * lool rms old crashes
[15:50] <lool> Actually, I said these were my main bugs
[15:50] <lool> I also got a series of bugs with firefox
[15:50] <lool> but I basically gave up on firefox
[15:50] <seb128> you just don't like chrisccoulson right?
[15:50] <lool> decided to bite the bullet and move to chrome
[15:50] <seb128> how is it?
[15:50] <lool> faster
[15:50] <seb128> seems people are rather moving back the other way
[15:51] <lool> I didn't get any serious issue with chrome yet
[15:51] <chrisccoulson> WHAT BUGS? :-)
[15:51] <lool> firefox was getting slower and slower for me
[15:51] <chrisccoulson> the version in natty?
[15:51] <lool> it had been a couple of weeks that firefox woudl get slower as hours passed; the UI would *hang* for up to 10 seconds using all CPU and not doing IO, and then would come back
[15:51] <desrt> has anyone else seen this add_match_done() dconf crasher?
[15:51] <lool> chrisccoulson: yes
[15:51] <desrt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/705347
[15:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 705347 in compiz "compiz crashes in add_match_done (dconf)" [High,Triaged]
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, didrocks did
[15:52] <desrt> did he stop seeing it after 0.7.1?
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> lool - we need to fix bugs like that really ;)
[15:52] <lool> eventually, I woudl quit firefox and launch it again, then it would work for a couple of hours or less
[15:52] <didrocks> hey desrt
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> if it's using CPU, it might be useful to run something like sysprof
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> just to give some idea about what it's doing ;)
[15:52] <lool> I also witnessed that time to load sites wasn't great
[15:52] <didrocks> let me check since when we have 0.7.1
[15:53] <desrt> actually, it looks like it might have a different trace than the one i fixed...
[15:53] <seb128> didrocks, the dates are on the bug
[15:53] <lool> the last straw was last time I quit-ed firefox and it didn't remember my tabs
[15:53] <chrisccoulson> lool - did you have any extensions installed? it should be pretty quick both starting up and loading sites
[15:53] <lool> chrisccoulson: So I think I straced firefox
[15:53] <chrisccoulson> it is here, and mozilla have invested a lot to ensure it is fast ;)
[15:53] <seb128> lool, you are on nvidia?
[15:53] <didrocks> seb128: the date when dconf 0.7.1 was on ubuntu?
[15:53] <seb128> lool, seems there is an issue with nvidia and launchpad
[15:54] <lool> chrisccoulson: and I think it might have been stating a lot of files, but I'm not sure; I suspect it might be ecryptfs related
[15:54] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[15:54] <lool> ecryptfs is the next thing I ditch when I get the chance
[15:54]  * didrocks opens
[15:54] <lool> chrisccoulson: $HOME is in ecryptfs and stat() is much slower on ecryptfs
[15:54] <lool> chrisccoulson: caused issues with bzr for me in the past
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, maybe i should try that
[15:55]  * hyperair tried ecryptfs once, and found it was even slower than dmcrypt
[15:55] <lool> chrisccoulson: So after 3 days of using chrome, I can attest it's objectively faster to load websites, even after a fresh start of firefox; I also get much better results with google calendar
[15:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[15:55] <lool> I use google calendar heavily, and it's miserable with firefox; I keep having issues with this or that calendar not loading
[15:55] <desrt> didrocks: maybe the bug is somehow related to the dbus daemon not running?
[15:56] <didrocks> desrt: we still have dconf 0.5.1 on natty
[15:56] <lool> Hmm just as I say this, I try loading google calendar, and it's slow with chrome
[15:56] <desrt> mterry packaged a new one
[15:56] <seb128> didrocks, ?
[15:57] <seb128> didrocks, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-conf
[15:57] <didrocks> did someone sponsored his work? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dconf
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> lool - if you find cases where performance is really bad though, it would be really good to report it upstream, especially if it's easily reproducible
[15:57] <didrocks> argh
[15:57] <chrisccoulson> they really care about this stuff :)
[15:57] <didrocks> the debian one…
[15:57] <seb128> lool, nividia user?
[15:57] <lool> chrisccoulson: I realize it must be frustrating to get feedback like this, I should take the time to look into these issues, it just happens that I piled a lot of issues with natty and didn't have time to tackle them all as they appeared
[15:57] <lool> seb128: nope, plain intel
[15:57] <seb128> ok
[15:57] <lool> chrisccoulson: Thanks, I'll try to look at it again
[15:58] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[15:58] <didrocks> desrt: ok, I'll try to reproduce it again once alpha2 is out, dropping my workaround for it
[15:58] <mterry> didrocks, d-conf is the source
[15:59] <didrocks> mterry: yeah, I was still lurking for dconf
[16:00] <desrt> :)
[16:00] <desrt> i think i found the problem anyway
[16:00] <desrt> if it can't connect to DBus a function gets called with NULL
[16:00] <desrt> that function isn't expecting that
[16:02] <didrocks> desrt: weird, because compiz is started by gnome-session which is started only when the session bus is there…
[16:02] <desrt> ya.  i can reproduce this
[16:02] <desrt> i have a patch for you now
[16:03] <didrocks> nice :)
[16:04] <desrt> mterry: the tip commit on upstream master branch is appropriate for cherry-picking as a vendor patch, if you like
[16:04] <desrt> alternatively, we can go through the full-blown release thing
[16:05] <desrt> i know you have some pretty strict time constraints at the moment, so tell me which works better for you
[16:05] <mterry> desrt, no, I can grab a patch.  let me look at it
[16:06] <mterry> desrt, the crash fix?  OK
[16:07] <desrt> mterry: you may want to mention LP#705347 in the log
[16:07] <didrocks> mterry: fixes bug #705347 FYI
[16:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 705347 in compiz "compiz crashes in add_match_done (dconf)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705347
[16:07] <didrocks> ok :)
[16:07] <mterry> thanks
[16:08] <desrt> dbarth__: bad internet day?
[16:10] <lool> Oh no, it's alwyas like that
[16:11]  * desrt currently _hates_ the internet situation in his country
[16:11] <lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/560652/
[16:11] <lool> desrt: What's the issue?
[16:11] <desrt> the main telco here (bell) is forcing the people who lease their lines to agree to charge their customers the same rates that this giant company charges their customers
[16:11] <desrt> which is $1/GB with only the first 25GB free per month
[16:11] <desrt> which is .... mind-blowing
[16:12] <lool> Is this like the comcast monopoly thing?
[16:12] <desrt> it's a bit complicated
[16:12] <kklimonda> desrt: $1/GB? in what alternate universe do you live?
[16:12] <lool> I recently discovered that Orange in France is doing the same thing as Comcast in the US
[16:12] <desrt> this company is huge because they received a lot of federal money in exchange for running lines out to rural areas that would not otherwise have been covered
[16:13] <desrt> in exchange, they were supposed to provide wholesale access to those lines at a rate decided by the government (since the government was footing part of the bill)
[16:13] <desrt> turns out that the regulatory agency created to oversee all of this (the CRTC) has been utterly captured
[16:13] <kklimonda> heh
[16:13] <desrt> about 2/3 to 3/4 of its staff are former employees of the industry that it's supposed to be regulating
[16:14] <desrt> in other words, business as usual in big money politics
[16:17] <tedg> lool, Hey, can you repull that branch and try again?
[16:18] <tedg> lool, Entirely different bug, but a good one to catch none-the-less ;)
[16:19] <lool> tedg: crashed again
[16:19] <tedg> lool, Uhg, same stack trace?
[16:19] <lool> tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/560654/
[16:19] <lool> tedg: No  :-)
[16:22] <desrt> dbarth__: okay.  i found the second bug that you were talking about.  it's not a GApplication bug at all
[16:22] <lool> tedg: Again, priv is 0xaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[16:22] <desrt> it's two things:
[16:22] <desrt>   1) an invalid use of GApplication by the user
[16:23] <tedg> lool, K, okay.  Give me a moment.
[16:23] <pitti> lool: (just overhearing); do you know whether 0xaaaaaaa is a special value? I've noticed that in several python crashes when debugging a double unref
[16:23] <desrt>   2) something that could become a valid use of a closely related GDBus design issue is fixed (and david is working on that now)
[16:23] <lool> pitti: I suspect glib or dbus is now setting the memory to this value
[16:23] <desrt> *if
[16:24] <desrt> lool: glib doesn't do anything special to freed memory by default
[16:24] <desrt> i think we have some 'gc friendly' environment variable that you can set, but it's not enabled out of the box
[16:25] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valgrind
[16:25] <seb128> G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly
[16:25] <desrt> seb128: cheers :)
[16:25] <lool>   { "aaaaaa", DBUS_INVALID_MISSING_ARRAY_ELEMENT_TYPE },
[16:25] <lool> Hmm no that's a string
[16:25] <desrt> it's screaming
[16:26] <desrt> like aaaaaaahhh!
[16:26] <lool> lol
[16:26] <desrt> but there's no 'h' in hex, so...
[16:26] <lool> maybe the toolchian uses this
[16:26] <desrt> C library more likely, i guess
[16:27] <pitti> desrt: I thought/hoped for something like that, as it stands out nicely in backtraces; I just didn't know whether it was intentional or pure coincidence
[16:32] <dbarth__> desrt: ok, njpatel can you confirm with kamstrup please
[16:33] <njpatel> hello
[16:33] <desrt> see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640714
[16:33] <ubot2> Gnome bug 640714 in gdbus "GApplication racy because of GDBus sync call semantics" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[16:34] <njpatel> desrt, hey
[16:34] <desrt> i don't entirely agree with david's characterisation of the problem, but he seems at least to finally have become convinced that this is a GDBus issue that bites lots of people
[16:34] <desrt> njpatel: hihi
[16:34] <njpatel> neither do I, seems like apps will be getting into lots of trouble with that
[16:34] <desrt> GApplication is actually totally non-buggy here
[16:35] <desrt> it works around the GDBus limitation in the only way you can:
[16:35] <desrt> 1) register object path
[16:35] <desrt> 2) try to take the name
[16:35] <desrt> 3) if it didn't work, unregister object path
[16:35] <njpatel> yeah, I'd say that gdbus needs to be clever there, not gapplication or any application
[16:35] <desrt> the problem is that users of GApplication assume that they will get the libdbus-1 style behaviour
[16:35] <desrt> and they presently don't
[16:36] <desrt> if david merges this fix, i'll actually be able to simplify GApplication a lot
[16:36] <desrt> so double win :)
[16:36] <njpatel> heh :)
[16:49]  * desrt just dumped brain into the bug
[16:53] <tedg> lool, Heh, could you pull and try again please :)
[16:53]  * tedg is excited to find the next bug! :)
[16:53] <lool> :)
[16:56] <lool> tedg: Stable for now!
[16:56] <lool> The gpm icon keeps appearing and disappearing
[16:56] <lool> which is probably the source of the stress
[16:57] <lool> tedg: It usually crashes after this amount of time, so I think this particular load is passing now  :-)
[16:58] <tedg> lool, Cool, I wonder why the icon is disappearing -- but that's probably a different bug.
[17:04] <SpamapS> so, I'm in classic desktop, on natty, and every time I alt-tab I get wobbly effects like I just maximized the window
[17:04] <SpamapS> oh and the window decorations disappear from the window w/o focus
[17:16] <seb128> tedg, do you plan to roll a new tarball with those fixes today?
[17:17] <tedg> seb128, I wasn't going to, do you think I should today?
[17:22] <seb128> tedg, check with kenvandine
[17:22] <seb128> tedg, well a2 freeze is tomorrow
[17:23] <seb128> tedg, so having those either backported or in a tarball would be useful
[17:23] <tedg> seb128, K, either works for me.  We'll let kenvandine choose :)
[17:33] <skaet> seb128, didrocks, knevandine_ - are there any more significant new features about to land in the code base for a2 at this point?
[17:33] <didrocks> skaet: unity is about to be uploaded
[17:34] <didrocks> skaet: with places which is noteworthy
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> nice!
[17:34] <seb128> skaet, new unity with places today
[17:34] <seb128> that's it
[17:34] <didrocks> (first sketch of places)
[17:35] <skaet> didrocks, seb128,  cool.   :)    Any worries about it triggering regressions in other areas?
[17:36] <seb128> out of unity you mean? or in unity
[17:36] <skaet> both.  :)
[17:36] <seb128> seems didrocks is getting some stability issues with the update
[17:36] <didrocks> skaet: we get some new crashes in unity
[17:36] <seb128> out of unity things should be ok
[17:36] <didrocks> that's why I'm looking a little bit before uploading
[17:36] <didrocks> and the dash is empty, but that's a minor regression
[17:36] <didrocks> (and won't be fixed)
[17:37] <skaet> ok - we'll release note document it then.
[17:38] <skaet> thanks for looking into the stability issue didrocks,   let me know if we need to be adding to the release notes on the subject.
[17:38] <didrocks> skaet: yw, we'll work with dx for that and let you know :)
[17:39]  * SpamapS just had a compiz segfault that he's submitting via apport
[17:45] <rickspencer3> pedro_, hello
[17:48] <pedro_> hello rickspencer3
[17:48] <rickspencer3> pedro_, are you involved with validating 10.04.2?
[17:50] <pedro_> rickspencer3, yes, i'm working on the kernel and image testing of it
[17:50] <rickspencer3> pedro_, is there an iso tracking page and such?
[17:50] <pedro_> rickspencer3, jibel is the leader of the effort though
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ah, ok
[17:53]  * bcurtiswx waves to room
[18:10] <seb128> pitti, there is a new gvfs available if you want to do the update
[18:10] <seb128> just pointing it, if you don't that's ok ;-)
[18:11] <pitti> seb128: currently working on pygobject, not sure whether I'll get to that today still
[18:11] <seb128> pitti, no worry
[18:11] <seb128> I'm calling it a day as well now, sport and dinner
[18:12] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy!
[18:14] <didrocks> mvo: hey, have you made some changes to software-center in SoftwarePane in natty? there is no more scroll_app_list (and I guess no more scroll_app_details)
[18:14] <didrocks> scroll_details*
[18:15] <didrocks> mvo: same for app_view it seems
[18:15] <didrocks> seems like I have to rewrite the plugin from scratch
[18:16] <mvo> didrocks: should not be needed, not that much has chnaged
[18:17] <mvo> didrocks: but we can have a look at this together tomorrow maybe? trouble is that I'm in a meeting now and need to leave early (in 15min)
[18:17] <didrocks> mvo: oh sure, tomorrow is fine, thanks :)
[18:17] <bryceh> rickspencer3, what was the final decision on hibernate?  Is it still supposed to work in the kernel, just not the GUI?  I'm hearing a few bugs about a regression with it, just wondering if they're actual bugs or not
[18:20] <pitti> I don't think it would be a good idea to disable it in the kernel; we alreayd disabled it in the UI
[18:21] <bryceh> pitti, also got a question is the UI absence configurable in some fashion (gconf?) or is it gone-gone?
[18:22] <pitti> bryceh: it's configurable in polkit
[18:22] <pitti> so not as easy as gconf-editor
[18:22] <bryceh> ah ok
[18:22] <pitti> sudo cat /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla
[18:22] <pitti> ^ our default policy
[18:22] <pitti> you can change it in /etc/polkit-1/localauthority
[18:23] <pitti> but if it's common desire to reenable it, then we shouldn't disable it in the first place
[18:24] <bryceh> pitti, couple friends (sysadmins) mentioned it'd make them want to switch distros if they couldn't flip it back on
[18:26] <bryceh> so thanks for the polkit tips, I think that may square things up
[18:29] <rickspencer3> bryceh, hey, so, uh, I think we actually need to discuss that change  a bit with users and the community before make it permanent
[18:29] <bryceh> rickspencer3, that'd be a good idea
[18:30] <rickspencer3> I don't even know if a bug was logged or anything, but I don't know of any really public discussion or such
[18:30] <rickspencer3> bryceh, maybe I'll pop a note to @ubuntu-devel/@ubuntu-desktop
[18:30] <rickspencer3> bryce, are there bug #s that you can link me to for reference?
[18:30] <bryceh> rickspencer3, from what I gather some people like it for persisting state even though it's really slow
[18:31] <rickspencer3> bryceh, sure, but are those same people maintaining it?
[18:31] <bryceh> rickspencer3, no bug reports - they asked about it on irc
[18:31] <rickspencer3> no sane person would want to give up something that has benefit but no cost
[18:32] <rickspencer3> ok, well, in any case, this isn't somehting we should jfdi, I think
[18:32] <bryceh> wait, I'm wrong - 710796
[18:32] <rickspencer3> I'll start a thread, and maybe a bug repot
[18:32] <rickspencer3> ah, good
[18:32] <rickspencer3> ok, thanks for jiggling the handle on this one bryceh
[18:33] <bryceh> rickspencer3, sure thing
[18:33] <rickspencer3> hmm, right, so the bug only mentions the benefits, and not the costs
[18:34] <rickspencer3> but amputating a feature like this because it is buggy is not going to be popular outside the group of engineers who do the bulk of the work
[18:35] <bryceh> rickspencer3, I definitely know the pain of having flood of bug reports for something that's impossible to support (ala 8xx, poulsbo...)
[18:35] <kklimonda> it's not really removed though. Just disabled.
[18:36] <bryceh> rickspencer3, but seems like there's room to leave it present but declared unsupported.  We've got X stuff like that, which people can use but we don't take bug reports for.  I could see hibernate fitting in there, especially if upstream isn't responsive to bug reports forwarded along about it.
[18:36] <kklimonda> I've heard just about as many reports from people for whom the hibernation didn't work as from people who used it with success.. incidentally, I could never make it to work well on my T61
[18:37] <rickspencer3> bryceh, well, not for OEM services and certification
[18:37] <rickspencer3> if it's on by default, we need to ensure that it's properly supported
[18:38] <rickspencer3> maybe we can have a GUI for the setting though?
[18:38] <rickspencer3> kklimonda, exactly, it's really hard to make it work nicely
[18:39] <bryceh> ah true
[19:04] <rickspencer3> bryceh, email sent
[19:04] <rickspencer3> bryceh, btw, updated this morning,  and everything seems happy again (i965 here)
[19:04] <bryceh> rickspencer3, cool
[19:06] <bryceh> rickspencer3, if all goes well we'll have the new xserver in today
[19:07] <bryceh> unfortunately upstream is not done fiddling with it yet, and sounds like there's going to be yet another ABI break, but we can deal with that post-A2
[19:08] <rickspencer3> bryceh, so, no new xorg until after A2?
[19:10] <bryceh> rickspencer3, we'll put in what we got now - chris packaged it up and we have updated multitouch stuff from Chase, so we will have new X in A2.  but the ABI break means we won't be finished at A2 - we'll have to do another respin of all the drivers in the next few weeks
[19:13] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, re: hibernate email.  I think the only difference between suspend and hibernate is whether or not the computer is completely shut off or just in a low-power state.
[19:13] <bcurtiswx> both attempt to restore the previous session
[19:15] <bcurtiswx> i am assuming the methods between hibernation and session saving are different though.. so idk if since session saving is corrupt, that it won't corrupt hibernation in the process either
[19:16] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, yes, I understand the difference
[19:16] <rickspencer3> but suspend will drain your battery over days
[19:16] <rickspencer3> but if you have KMS it turns back on really fast
[19:16] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, yes
[19:20] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, OK, I think it will be a very interesting experiment.  Do any of the usage statistics show whether suspend/hibernate is preferred over the other?
[19:21] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, not that I know of
[19:22] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, would a poll on which is used more be valuable to this decision?
[19:23] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, let's see what the discussions on the mailing lists turn up
[19:23] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, sure :)
[19:23] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, the thing is, there are costs
[19:23] <rickspencer3> everyone wants perfectly working hibernate, I know I do
[19:23] <rickspencer3> but the feature is costly and not perfect
[19:24] <hoonteke> I'm not a regular Ubu-dev (clearly), but I can anecdotally say that for precisely that startup time, suspend is more used around my office.
[19:24] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, in that case for sure I can see that removing it is the better option. and i agree
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> i wish there was a way of detecting whether hibernate actually works
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't work on my desktop, ever
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> yet, it's so easy to accidentally hit hibernate in the session menu
[19:25] <chrisccoulson> and once you've done that, it's game over (you lose all your work)
[19:25] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, iirc it doesn't verify that you want to either.. correct?
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, yes. that's presumably because suspend/hibernate are *meant* to be non-destructive
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> but that's not the case on my desktop
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> it's like having a self-destruct button ;)
[19:26] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, yes so because we don't want to destroy someones work, hibernate should be disabled
[19:27] <bcurtiswx> i haven't had a bad suspend on a stable release yet (knocks on wood)
[19:27] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, hoonteke, chrisccoulson can I ask you guys to also share your thoughts on the mailing list? it would be good to have all the perspectives in one place
[19:27] <chrisccoulson> sure, i can do that
[19:28] <hoonteke> rickspencer3: heh, that would imply that I'm a member of the mailing list.  Gonna have to join ...
[19:28] <rickspencer3> hoonteke, :)
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, done :)
[19:31] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:32] <hoonteke> bcurtiswx: you just sent a message?
[19:32] <hoonteke> I hope I joined in time ...
[19:32] <bcurtiswx> hoonteke, there's an archive don't worry
[19:33] <hoonteke> yeah, usually is nowadays, but hte message won't be properly threaded from my response unless I can respond to a list message.
[19:55] <chrisccoulson> heh, i can't wait for unity to publish, so i grab the deb off launchpad instead :)
[19:58] <thales> Hello,  Nautilus file manager does not display / recognize recent files backed up on back-up HD (format: Ext4) using 'rsync -a'. However terminal command 'ls' shows all files.  Why?
[19:59] <thales> I checked permissions 'ls -l' and all should be displayed.
[20:00] <thales> However, noted a phantom drive: media/disk2 {and the following phantom} media/disk2_ ; It seems that the phantom drive is displayed by the file manager, Nautilus
[20:42] <rickspencer3> bryceh, pitti, etc...
[20:42] <rickspencer3> so I want to move bug #710796 to policy kit
[20:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 710796 in linux "[regression] hibernate no longer works on natty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710796
[20:42] <rickspencer3> what is the correct package there?
[20:44] <broder> rickspencer3: do you actually want it owned by polkit, or by the package that owns /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla (i.e. policykit-desktop-privileges)
[20:44] <rickspencer3> policykit-desktop-privileges
[20:44] <rickspencer3> I think
[20:44] <rickspencer3> just not linux
[20:51] <rickspencer3> thanks broder
[20:53] <bratsche> bryceh: I guess the new X stuff landed?  I was able to get Natty desktop running on Sandy Bridge today.
[20:53] <bratsche> w00t
[20:55] <hoonteke> rickspencer3: is there an initial moderation of the list?  I have not yet received my reply to Bryce's email.  (since I'm a new member, etc.)
[21:24] <bryceh> bratsche-afk, yep the -intel and mesa bits landed which should give most of the support
[21:24] <bryceh> xorg-server 1.10 will be landing today.  Not sure if that include SB bits but that'll be the final piece of the puzzle
[21:29] <bratsche> bryceh: Ah, awesome.  Looking forward to having everything in. :)
[23:31] <bcurtiswx_> unity clicking ubuntu button is blank. should I have other packages installed right now?
[23:42] <bcurtiswx_> found it, had to use main server instead of US server


[15:22] <Belserusk> I have noticed in Ubuntu 11.04 that text files are being opened in different windows instead of tabs! How do I solve this? I use Gedit as my main text editor.
[17:17] <thethomaseffect> Hallo there, got some free hosting sorted out for myself from a friend so i can finally start work on new ubuntu-ie website properly :)
[20:36] <czajkowski> airurando: boo
[20:36] <airurando> how do
[20:38] <czajkowski> airurando: be nice to have em all in one place
[20:38] <czajkowski> well impressed they're doing this for us
[20:38] <airurando> aye indeed
[20:39] <airurando> are they copying or moving them?
[20:41] <czajkowski> not sure I suggesed either which ever is easier
[20:42] <airurando> cool either way.  will need to update links if they move them completely.
[20:43] <czajkowski> nods
[22:26] <ShaneM> Hey I'm trying to help someone fix their wireless on ubuntu
[22:26] <ShaneM> But everyone is saying the fix it "linux-backports-modules-wireless-maverick-generic"
[22:26] <ShaneM> Which obviously only applied to maverick.
[22:27] <ShaneM> I check the package manager and the closest package I can find to it is a linux-backports-modules-wireless--net-natty-generic
[22:27] <ShaneM> linux-backports-modules-wireless-net-natty-generic
[22:27] <ShaneM> Does anyone know if that's the same package?