[00:50] <StevenK> wallyworld___: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/drop-garbo-accesspolicy-redux/+merge/97779
[00:50] <StevenK> Three underscores? That's a bit excessive ...
[00:51] <wallyworld___> StevenK: each time i plug or unplug my laptop from the docking station it disconnects the network
[00:51] <StevenK> Handy.
[00:52] <wallyworld___> you sure you won't need to re-revert the revert again :-P
[00:52] <StevenK> I bloody hope not.
[00:53] <wallyworld___> r=me
[00:53] <StevenK> It should be redeletion :-P
[01:32] <wgrant> wallyworld___: Feel like reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/GRAR/+merge/97782?
[01:32] <wallyworld___> wgrant: looking now
[01:33] <wgrant> Thanks.
[01:34] <wallyworld___> wgrant: typo line 9 otherwise good. what a silly error
[01:34] <wgrant> wallyworld___: Already fixed that
[01:34] <wgrant> THanks.
[01:34] <wallyworld___> np, r=me
[01:58] <StevenK> wgrant: Importing a bug that has <private>False</private> into a product that has private_bugs = True still creates the bug as public.
[02:00] <wgrant> StevenK: :(
[02:01] <wgrant> wallyworld___: I guess we probably want to display the beta banner too.
[02:01] <wgrant> wallyworld___: I think we can probably turn this on RO for beta testing on Tuesday morning if we get these few things fixed up. Are you going OK, or should I work on bits once I finish the garbo job?
[02:03] <wallyworld___> wgrant: the read only branch is up for review, just entering a bug for the performance issue
[02:03] <wgrant> I see there's an unassigned card in Coding -- that's you?
[02:03] <StevenK> wgrant: Fixing it is easy, overwrite private if product.private_bugs. A test is harder
[02:04] <wgrant> Aha
[02:04] <wgrant> No longer unassigned.
[02:04] <wallyworld___> wgrant: not unassigned anymore. i was in the middle of doing it when i answered you irc ping
[02:04] <wgrant> Heh, sorry.
[02:04] <wgrant> wallyworld___: I'll review the RO branch after lunch.
[02:04] <wallyworld___> ok, thanks :-)
[02:05] <wgrant> StevenK: Isn't that Done-Done?
[02:05] <wgrant> Heh
[02:06] <StevenK> :-)
[02:06] <wgrant> wallyworld___: What about disclosure.enhanced_sharing.enabled and disclosure.enhanced_sharing.writable?
[02:06] <StevenK> wgrant: Doesn't your everything is broken in IE8 card move?
[02:06] <wgrant> StevenK: No
[02:06] <StevenK> :-(
[02:06] <wgrant> StevenK: A few less things are unbroken in IE.
[02:06] <wgrant> But there are more branches.
[02:07] <wallyworld___> wgrant: i guess so
[02:07]  * mwhudson squinets
[02:07] <mwhudson> i think there is the wrong parity of negatives in that sentence?
[02:08] <wgrant> Um, yes.
[02:12] <wgrant> wallyworld___: getPrecachedPersonsFromIDs is probably of interest.
[02:12] <wallyworld___> wgrant: no kidding
[02:12] <wallyworld___> but thanks :-)
[02:13] <wgrant> I've seen people reimplement it before :)
[02:14] <wallyworld___> the real issue will be the web service marshalling - whether that triggers lazy evaluation of properties
[02:14] <wgrant> It does, but getPrecachedPersonsFromIDs is used to prevent that.
[02:15] <wallyworld___> wgrant: sure, but i don't want to load data not needed on the client
[02:15] <wallyworld___> there's a lot of joins etc that can be avoided
[02:15] <wgrant> Indeed.
[02:16] <wgrant> But you can't avoid that while still returning marshalled Persons.
[02:17] <wgrant> wallyworld___: Person.api_activemembers shows the args you need.
[02:17] <wgrant> It would be nice to avoid this, but the current API design makes that a bit hard. So for now I'd just precache.
[02:17] <wallyworld___> wgrant: but i don't really need marshalled persons in their intirety
[02:18] <wgrant> That's true.
[02:18] <wallyworld___> kusy name,displayname, self_link really
[02:18] <wgrant> Also icon, but you don't use that yet.
[02:18] <wallyworld___> anyway, i'll see what can be done
[02:32] <wgrant> wallyworld___: Reviewed
[02:32] <wgrant> Hah
[02:32] <wgrant> 13:32:23 < wgrant> wallyworld___: Reviewed
[02:32] <wgrant> 13:32:25 -!- wallyworld_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #launchpad-dev
[02:36] <wallyworld_> wgrant: what's up?
[02:39] <wallyworld_> thanks for the review - the reason for making the links depend on either flag is so that it is robust enough to handle that we may want to just activate the writeable flag and expect that it all should work
[02:39] <wgrant> Will the underlying APIs cope with that?
[02:40] <wallyworld_> yes
[02:40] <wallyworld_> well that is the intent, i'll double check to be 100%
[02:41] <wallyworld_> why did you paste the "wallyworld has joined..." text?
[02:42] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Because I tried to talk to you two seconds before you reconnected.
[02:42] <wgrant> loltpg? :)
[02:42] <wallyworld_> no. as i said to StevenK, when i disconnect the laptop from the docking station, the network hicups
[02:43] <wallyworld_> i don't know why you guys dis tpg so much. it's been great for me
[03:07] <StevenK> It's easy when you start the day as wallyworld and end up as wallyworld__________________________
[03:08] <wallyworld_> but that's nothing to do with tpg
[03:08] <StevenK> So you say. :-P
[03:10] <wgrant> StevenK: Is the migration done on prod yet?
[03:10] <wallyworld_> how do you know it is?
[03:12] <StevenK> wallyworld_: I'm yanking your chain. For a happy TPG customer, you sure are defensive. :-P
[03:12] <wallyworld_> because you dis it so much :-)
[03:13] <StevenK> wgrant: Nope.
[03:13] <StevenK> 350k bugs to go
[03:13] <wallyworld_> wgrant: did you put up the card about changing access for sharing to owners and not drivers? i didn't think we had agreement from the product team yet for that change?
[03:15] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Did Product actually say that driver should have access?
[03:15] <wgrant> That's pretty odd, since driver is approximately RM
[03:15] <wgrant> I don't think we should open it up to driver yet.
[03:15] <wallyworld_> wgrant: can't recall exactly where that came from but it was communicated as a requirement
[03:16] <wallyworld_> in an email perhaps, can't recall
[03:16] <StevenK> I think that's an OEM thing
[03:16] <wgrant> Ah, right, the silliness with pmteam
[03:16] <wgrant> But I'm not sure it matters massively for the initial beta next week...
[03:17] <wgrant> I'd prefer to err on the side of revealing too little.
[03:17] <wallyworld_> not sure. we'd best check
[03:17] <wgrant> Indeed.
[03:23] <StevenK> sinzui: I just fixed bug 457489, so I'm not sure why you self-assigned it. :-)
[03:23] <_mup_> Bug #457489: Bug importer ignores the product.private_bugs flag <bugs> <disclosure> <easy> <lp-bugs> <privacy> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by sinzui> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/457489 >
[03:23] <sinzui> StevenK, I did not see you working on it
[03:24] <lifeless> sinzui: why are you awake?
[03:24] <StevenK> sinzui: I even have a card for it
[03:24] <sinzui> Because the bug should have been fixed. I see the public security rule trumped the default rule
[03:24] <StevenK> lifeless: Clearly the bug I linked is so henious that sinzui can't sleep.
[03:25] <sinzui> StevenK, I was looking a the bug, I do not look a kanban during non-work outs
[03:25] <sinzui> hours
[03:26] <StevenK> sinzui: Sorry if I stepped on your toes, I reproduced the bug before lunch and just finished off the branch.
[03:27] <sinzui> Yeah. I wrote the test and thought, what, the call chain is right, why is it wrong
[03:27] <sinzui> StevenK, you get a free review
[03:27] <StevenK> Heh
[03:28] <StevenK> sinzui: I love how the bug importer was setting private, creating the bug, and then re-grabbing private from the node.
[03:28] <sinzui> StevenK, the public security rule still trumps your code
[03:28] <sinzui> and it should not
[03:30] <StevenK> sinzui: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/885845/
[03:33] <sinzui> you missed the duplict rewrite of of security (twice no less) The bug is made private correctly, then change once by code from 5 years ago then made public by code from last year
[03:33] <sinzui> There are duplicate lines which i see you saw
[03:33] <sinzui> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/885848/
[03:34] <sinzui> Your code will fail if you run my test I think
[03:35] <StevenK> I think my new code is okay, since your test reads reads like mine.
[03:36] <sinzui> StevenK, I believe product.createBug() -> BugSet.createBug() which ignores/overwrites any value in the private param. The bug is create private every time.
[03:37] <sinzui> You code has a needless check of .private_bug. We do not do that anywhere else in lp code. Searching will reveal two methods seem to know about it
[03:38] <StevenK> sinzui: Now test_public_security_bug fails since I force private = Ture
[03:38] <StevenK> *True
[03:38] <sinzui> why does your change still set security twice after creation!
[03:39] <StevenK> Oh, bloody heck. I missed that one.
[03:40] <StevenK> sinzui: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/885859/
[03:40] <sinzui> I tested with a public security bug. I found that bug was created private but those two alterations overwrote what createBug does
[03:41] <StevenK> Right.
[03:44] <sinzui> StevenK, didn't you just break the public security bug case in another test. I am allowed to import a public security bug. Lp created it private, then the import makes it public, but it should only do that if the project does not have default private bugs
[03:45] <StevenK> Sigh, can't we use information_type
[03:45] <StevenK> That makes it so much easier. :-)
[03:46] <sinzui> Damn right
[03:46] <sinzui> I think bug.setPrivacyAndSecurityRelated is needed, but it must be guarded by if not self.product.private_bugs:
[03:47] <StevenK> And we need the private or security_related
[03:47] <StevenK> Just to deal with that case
[03:49] <sinzui> StevenK, Look at by diff http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/885848/
[03:49]  * wgrant randomises everything except faq_id_seq, bug_id_seq and question_id_seq.
[03:50] <sinzui> We test with the public_security_bug because it was the reason there were two rules in the code to overwrite.
[03:50] <sinzui> security and privacy.
[03:51] <sinzui> We just want a second test that shows that .private_bugs wins in  battle with public security
[03:51] <StevenK> Right
[03:52] <StevenK> Or I can just re-use the current test ...
[03:52] <sinzui> StevenK, any, you understand what I was seeing. I am approving your branch. I see jc's branch came back with two failures, So I can fix these and go to sleep
[03:56] <StevenK> I'm looking forward to CreateBugParams() taking information_type, since that setting crap can die
[04:01] <wgrant> Yay, /builders in less than 100 queries
[04:08] <lifeless> I'm thinking we need more soft oopses
[04:08] <lifeless> -> on any page with > 100 queries
[04:10] <wgrant> lifeless: I think we should soft oops anything over 2s or 100 queries, personallhy.
[04:11] <wgrant> It's an awful lot of soft oopses, but all those requests are bad.
[04:22] <wallyworld_> wgrant: 2 queries, static
[04:22] <wallyworld_> https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/sharing-view-scalability-956634/+merge/97793
[04:23] <wallyworld_> previously it was O(n)
[04:25] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Hell yeah
[04:25] <wgrant> That's what I like to see.
[04:25] <wallyworld_> me too
[04:29] <wgrant> Mm
[04:29] <wgrant> This makes API usage awkward
[04:29] <wgrant> But I guess it will do for now.
[04:49] <wallyworld_> wgrant: with the api usage, it depends on what data they want back. we can always add additional attributes, but for now, let's get this landed to fix the core issue
[04:50] <wallyworld_> are you able to +1 it and i'll send to ec2
[04:51] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Sorry, got distracted in -ops
[04:51] <wallyworld_> np
[04:52] <wallyworld_> wgrant: one option is for the callers to ask for the attributes they want
[04:52] <wallyworld_> otherwise they just get a minimal set like what's there now
[04:52] <wallyworld_> i've used that pattern before quite successfully
[04:52] <wallyworld_> that way the api can be used for any use case
[04:52] <wallyworld_> and not have to over or under deliver
[04:53] <wgrant> Good luck doing that with lazr.restful(client)
[04:53] <wgrant> Approved
[04:53] <wallyworld_> thanks
[05:16] <poolie> has anyone else encountered https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dnsmasq/+bug/956655 by running lxc locally?
[05:16] <_mup_> Bug #956655: libvirt dnsmasq causes runaway chain reaction <dnsmasq (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/956655 >
[05:55]  * wallyworld_ stabs ec2 - a landing run failed and no email :-(
[05:59] <wallyworld_> wgrant: why + getUtility(IAccessPolicyArtifactSource).deleteByArtifact(abstracts) ?
[06:00] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Ah, good point. Because artifact deletion should remove the grants and policy links, rather than removing the grants and then failing with a foreign key violation.
[06:00] <wgrant> Should probably test that directly.
[06:00] <wallyworld_> yes, was wondering why exiting tests didn't fail or there wasn't a new test added
[06:08] <wallyworld_> wgrant: we can't select from the access artifact grant table to see if a bug id is in there and therefore already mirrored?
[06:10] <wgrant> wallyworld_: There may not be any grants.
[06:10] <wgrant> We've used this pattern before.
[06:10] <wgrant> For the SPR.changelog migration, IIRC
[06:10] <wgrant> storing the value in memcached.
[06:11] <wallyworld_> ok. and if the app is restarted, we just redo some work
[06:11] <wgrant> Not the app, memcached.
[06:11] <wgrant> And memcached is very rarely restarted.
[06:11] <wallyworld_> that runs in a separate process, ok
[06:12] <wgrant> The migration should complete within one run.
[06:12] <wgrant> I believe.
[06:13] <wallyworld_> ffs. another ec2 run failed with no email
[06:13] <wgrant> Hm
[06:14] <wgrant> Sure you've updated your lp-dev-utils?
[06:14] <wgrant> Mine are emailing fine.
[06:14] <wallyworld_> and only an hour in, before any of the new tests would have been run
[06:14] <wallyworld_> wgrant: yes, i landed stuff yesterday ok iirc. and i just updated then and no changes
[06:14] <wgrant> Maybe EC2 is being shit.
[06:15] <wallyworld_> yeah :-(
[06:15] <wgrant> wallyworld_: The delete() change is now tested.
[06:15] <wallyworld_> wgrant: cool. i just +1'ed it anyway
[06:16] <wgrant> Thanks.
[06:26] <wgrant> wallyworld_: You probably conflicted with jcsackett's branch
[06:27] <wallyworld_> perhaps. sorting it out now
[06:27] <wgrant> I'm just sorting out the beta banner.
[06:27] <wallyworld_> ok, cool. next week will be good
[06:28] <wgrant> wallyworld_: I guess that page also wants the privacy banner.
[06:28] <wgrant> Unconditionally.
[06:29] <wallyworld_> hmmm. could do. is it really displaying private info though?
[06:29] <wgrant> I guess it could be argued either way.
[06:29]  * wgrant just goes with the beta banner for now.
[06:29] <wallyworld_> +1
[06:29] <poolie> is anyone running lxc on your laptop/etc?
[06:30] <wallyworld_> no, bare metal for me
[06:30] <wgrant> poolie: I run it on my laptop (oneiric) and desktop (precise)
[06:30] <wgrant> Only precise's has its own libvirt.
[06:30] <wgrant> s/libvirt/dnsmasq/
[06:30] <poolie> did you see anything like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dnsmasq/+bug/956655
[06:30] <wgrant> But it's working for me.
[06:30] <_mup_> Bug #956655: libvirt dnsmasq causes runaway chain reaction <dnsmasq (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/956655 >
[06:30] <wgrant> I'm running libvirt, lxc and system dnsmasqs
[06:30] <wgrant> And it's working OK
[06:31] <poolie> ok
[06:31] <wgrant> I haven't rebooted in several days, though.
[06:31] <wgrant> poolie: Heh
[06:31] <poolie> ?
[06:31] <wgrant> poolie: You know what adds that dhclient.conf thing...
[06:31] <wgrant> poolie: LP's setuplxc
[06:31] <poolie> oh ffs
[06:31] <wgrant> :D
[06:31] <poolie> i should never have run that
[06:32] <poolie> it's so ridiculously intrusive
[06:32] <poolie> worse than rocketfuel-setup
[06:32] <poolie> despite intending to run on the host
[06:32] <stub> You should run it from an lxc container.
[06:32] <poolie> only inside an existing container?
[06:32] <poolie> ok
[06:32] <stub> Implied smiley
[06:32] <lifeless> dhclient thing?
[06:33] <lifeless> poolie: YHBT by stub :)
[06:33] <wgrant> $ bzr grep domain-name-servers
[06:33] <wgrant> utilities/setuplxc.py:        'prepend domain-name-servers {};\n'.format(lxc_gateway_address))
[06:33] <lifeless> erm wtf
[06:33] <poolie> it modifies your dhclient.conf in a way that sets up an echo loop between various dnsmasqs
[06:33] <lifeless> Why would it add that
[06:33] <wgrant> wtf is right :)
[06:33] <poolie> for fun
[06:33] <lifeless> poolie: file a bug, I think it indicates a missetup host
[06:33] <poolie> against what?
[06:34] <lifeless> launchpad for now, which is where the setuplxc script is
[06:34] <poolie> i already filed a bug
[06:34] <poolie> i don't believe setuplxc's serious
[06:34] <lifeless> in what way?
[06:34] <poolie> it's full of stuff that does random modifications to the host
[06:35] <poolie> reporting them individually doesn't seem like a good use of time
[06:35] <poolie> the discussion needs to be around splitting it into bits you could safely run on a host you care about
[06:35] <poolie> that should be very conservative
[06:35] <poolie> and things inside the guest, that can do whatever
[06:36] <lifeless> sigh
[06:36] <poolie> but, per stub's troll, i don't know if that's even what it's meant for
[06:36] <poolie> is it?
[06:36] <lifeless> i gotta go
[06:36] <poolie> ah, sorry if that's too bitter
[06:36] <poolie> i can post to the list
[06:36] <poolie> i thought i already did though
[06:37] <poolie> ok, i mentioned this in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/936817 and you replied, but no one else
[06:37] <_mup_> Bug #936817: setuplxc scrambles your bzr whoami <Launchpad itself:Triaged by mbp> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/936817 >
[06:38] <poolie> anyhow, thanks for that wgrant
[06:39] <stub> poolie: I believe its purpose is to completely setup a Lucid lxc container with a full Launchpad development environment ready to go.
[06:39] <poolie> right
[06:39] <poolie> it's intended to be run on the host?
[06:39] <stub> I think so, yes (I didn't write it, but I vaguely recall running it once)
[06:39] <poolie> i infer it's only meant to be run on a host you don't care about, like an ec2 vm
[06:40] <wgrant> wallyworld: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/sharing-beta-banner/+merge/97801
[06:40] <wallyworld_> ooh. a banner,  i like banners
[06:41] <stub> I ran it on a host I cared about. It seemed to survive. Would have been december or January?
[06:41] <poolie> biab
[06:42] <wallyworld_> wgrant: that's nice infrastructure the bugs team added. i had no idea it would be so easy
[06:42] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Yep, it's pretty nice.
[06:42] <wgrant> It can also link each feature to a URL, but I don't think we have anything for these yet.
[06:42] <wgrant> So meh.
[06:43] <wallyworld_> one thing at a time
[06:43] <wallyworld_> r=me
[06:43] <lifeless> poolie: so, I'm sure you'll agree that if it was *just* refactored, and you ran it to setup an lxc container for you (so ran on the host), the existing change to your resolv.conf would be wrong
[06:43] <lifeless> poolie: its not particularly useful to reject identifying specific bugs just because the structure could be better
[06:44] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Thanks.
[06:44] <lifeless> poolie_: so, I'm sure you'll agree that if it was *just* refactored, and you ran it to setup an lxc container for you (so ran on the host), the existing change to your resolv.conf would be wrong
[06:44] <lifeless> poolie_: its not particularly useful to reject identifying specific bugs just because the structure could be better
[06:44] <wgrant> wallyworld_: It depends on yours, so I'll watch and land it when appropriate.
[06:44] <lifeless> poolie_: its meant to be run by random developers as well as on e.g. ec2
[06:45] <wallyworld_> wgrant: ok. i'm keeping an eye on mine too so i can land if i get to it first
[06:45] <lifeless> poolie_: filing bugs is a useful thing to do; suggesting ways to make similar bugs less likely is also good, *but does not replace* identifying existing flaws.
[06:45] <lifeless> poolie_: the folk writing it are not unix sysadmins, so they may well make mistakes or oversights, and we should be supporting them in getting a good result
[06:45] <poolie_> yes, that's all fine
[06:46] <poolie_> i just thought it might be closed invalid 'it's meant to do that'
[06:47] <lifeless> LP very rarely does that :) - you may get 'but X happens and we need to address it' as an answer, and if so we can have a discussion
[06:47] <lifeless> speaking of bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/936817 you have assigned it to yourself, so I suspect noone has answered because they assume its all under control
[06:47] <_mup_> Bug #936817: setuplxc scrambles your bzr whoami <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by mbp> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/936817 >
[06:48] <lifeless> poolie_: I don't know why these things have been added, I can ask gary, but I suspect something came up and the team took the most direct solution they saw.
[06:48] <poolie_> yes, i'm sure that's true
[06:49] <lifeless> this happens reasonably often in software dev AFAICT, and its usually 'wast'e
[06:49] <lifeless> I'm not sure how to stop it without really negative velocity side effects
[06:49] <wallyworld_> wgrant: found one of the ec2 issues, looks spurious, nothing to do with my changes: test_memory_hog_job
[06:49] <wgrant> wallyworld_: That seems to fail on certain days.
[06:49] <wallyworld_> fridays perhaps
[06:49] <wgrant> wallyworld_: eg. I had two branches fail with it yesterday, one not.
[06:49] <wgrant> One failed today, two did not.;
[06:49] <poolie_> lifeless, what i would have liked to have happen is for one of the developers to reply to my original bug to say
[06:50] <poolie_> "sorry, it's not meant to mangle your host, please tell us of any other issues"
[06:50] <wgrant> It did the same thing a couple of months ago.
[06:50] <wgrant> And recovered without anybody doing anything.
[06:50] <poolie_> then i would have felt encouraged to do it again
[06:50] <lifeless> poolie_: that would have been nice. I guarantee they haven't seen it :)
[06:50] <poolie_> oh?
[06:50] <lifeless> poolie_: - I failed to tag it for their queue
[06:50] <poolie_> cause they're rotated?
[06:50] <lifeless> poolie_: and few folk are subscribed to all LP bugs
[06:51] <poolie_> :/
[06:51] <lifeless> poolie_: and you triaged it yourself, so noone who is not subscribed had cause to look at it and tag it.
[06:51] <lifeless> (all of which is fine, but you can see why they probably hadn't seen it)
[06:51] <lifeless> this comes under 'LP is too big, we need to split stuff out' - I've asked that this script move to lp-dev-utils
[06:52] <poolie_> ok, i see
[06:52] <lifeless> which is a smaller project, and they could reasonably be expected to be subscribed for the project duration, for instance.
[06:53] <lifeless> anyhow, my general advice when feeling ignored by a developer of $anything, is to reach out directly and seek help from them :)
[06:53] <lifeless> lol
[06:53] <lifeless> I just heard a massive THUMP
[06:53] <lifeless> cat trying to get out of the lounge
[06:55] <poolie_> lifeless, i don't mind being ignored on it, i was just not going to run it until it was more stable
[06:55] <poolie_> if the residual damage hadn't caused my whole network to fallover i wouldn't have been thinking about it
[06:56] <lifeless> poolie_: anyhow, can you please file a new bug for that other damage, also on LP, and either point me at it, or tag it paralleltests
[06:56] <lifeless> erm, paralleltest IIRC
[06:56] <poolie_> i retargeted the existing bug
[06:57] <poolie_> dnsmasq is perhaps a bit dangerous but i think the proximate cause is setuplxc
[06:57] <lifeless> oh, the existing dnsmasq bug ?
[06:58] <lifeless> so yeah, thats purely setuplxc doing something inappropriate
[06:58] <lifeless> probably the ec2 image is missing dnsmasq
[06:58] <lifeless> and so the libvirt dnsmast magic isn't kicking in
[06:58] <poolie_> yes bug 956655
[06:58] <_mup_> Bug #956655: libvirt dnsmasq causes runaway chain reaction <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/956655 >
[06:58] <poolie_> yes, and missing networkmanager
[06:58] <lifeless> (or missing a rule for (host) dnsmasq usage.
[06:58] <poolie_> so you need a few different things for it to kick off
[06:58] <poolie_> thus my question whether it was even intended to be used on laptops
[06:58] <lifeless> do you need n-m for libvirt to do its thing ?
[06:59] <lifeless> definitely, its concieved as a dev + devops + ops tool
[06:59] <poolie_> n-m is starting the host's dnsmasq
[06:59] <poolie_> you could have dnsmasq without nm
[07:00] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Ah, one thing I missed in the review: you check whether the flag values are None, rather than letting them naturally cast to bool. This makes it impossible to override them to false.
[07:00] <wgrant> wallyworld_: You have to have no matches rules at all instead.
[07:01] <lifeless> right, so we'll need to tease that all out, the code in setuplxc today is flawed
[07:01] <wallyworld_> wgrant: can't we just delete the flag
[07:01] <lifeless> EOW'ing for reals
[07:02] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Occasionally we need to disable it just in one exceptional case.
[07:02] <wgrant> wallyworld_: eg. to this day we have two rules for dynamic bug listings.
[07:02] <wgrant> The main one to enable it globally.
[07:02] <wgrant> And a second one to disable it just for one page that doesn't work with it.
[07:02] <poolie_> lifeless,  thanks, have  a  great weekend
[07:02] <wallyworld_> and we can only do that if we cast to boolean?
[07:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: It will implicitly do that.
[07:03] <wgrant> wallyworld_: The pattern is to just say "if getFeatureFlag('foo'):"
[07:03] <wgrant> Rather than "if getFeatureFlag('foo') is not None:"
[07:04] <wallyworld_> ok, will fix
[07:05] <wgrant> Thanks.
[07:05] <wgrant> Should be pretty trivial :)
[08:16] <wallyworld_> wgrant: you can land you beta banner branch now
[08:21] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Excellent, thanks.
[08:22] <wallyworld_> np
[08:52] <StevenK> Quite irritating now that LP is marking merged MPs diffs as empty
[08:53] <adeuring> good morning
[09:46] <lcanas> hey guys, I'm trying to get the info from https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/950364/+activity using the launchpadlib but it seems that the content of the activity entries is not available via the API. All I can get is the total number of entries, but the "bug.activity.entries" object is always empty. Any ideas?
[09:46] <_mup_> Bug #950364: the owner field in glance is tenant_name <Glance:Triaged by jaypipes> <OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon):In Progress by gabriel-hurley> <Keystone:In Progress by jaypipes> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/950364 >
[09:48] <wgrant> lcanas: You can't access activity entries anonymously right now.
[09:48] <wgrant> Even for public bugs.
[09:48] <wgrant> But if you're authenticated at all it will work.
[09:49] <lcanas> wgrant, I see, thank you! :D
[11:45] <rick_h> morning party people
[11:46] <czajkowski> rick_h: ello
[11:54] <nigelb> rick_h: Recovered from pycon?
[11:54] <rick_h> nigelb: the process begins...I think it might take a while.
[11:54] <nigelb> heh
[12:33] <wgrant> sinzui: Morning.
[12:34] <sinzui> I am afraid it is
[12:35] <nigelb> heh
[12:35] <wgrant> Heh
[12:36] <wgrant> sinzui: wallyworld and I landed several branches today which get us into a state where we could sensibly turn on a read-only version +sharing page with fully populated data on Tuesday.
[12:36] <wgrant> Does that sound like a reasonable idea?
[12:37] <wallyworld_> oh yeah
[12:37] <sinzui> yes it does
[12:42] <wgrant> Great.
[12:42] <wgrant> It all looks pretty nice.
[12:42] <wgrant> And it is nice and fast.
[13:18] <deryck> Morning, everyone.
[13:18] <rick_h> morning
[13:23] <deryck> welcome back, rick_h
[13:23] <adeuring> morning
[13:23] <rick_h> deryck: thanks, let the shoveling begin!!
[13:23] <deryck> rick_h, a little email there to tend to? :)
[13:24] <abentley> adeuring, deryck, rick_h: hi.
[13:24] <rick_h> heh, not just that, but crap to do. 2-factor auth, reviews, etc. You all got busy last week
[13:24] <deryck> 2-factor auth?
[13:25] <deryck> oh right
[13:25] <deryck> I recall now :)
[13:25] <rick_h> yea, giant thread on using phone for 2-factor auth stuff
[13:25] <rick_h> ordered a yubi key to try to hook into it
[13:25] <adeuring> rick_h: could you have a look at this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~stefanor/wadllib/datetime-924240/+merge/97099 ? It's about a change you made to wadllib; I have no real clue about this stuff
[13:26] <rick_h> adeuring: looking, see if I can recall
[13:27] <rick_h> adeuring: ah, that was for py3 compat. It's a hack, but the only way I could get tests to pass in both
[13:28] <adeuring> rick_h: I assume that the round trip ET.tostring(ET.fromstring(markup)) is necessary? If so, could you explain this in the MP
[13:28] <adeuring> ?
[13:28] <rick_h> yes, I'm trying to remember how it works. will do
[13:29] <rick_h> basically we need to foce bytes. ET return a string in py2, but unicode in py3
[13:29] <rick_h> so we have to get it to a string, and then force it into Bytes
[13:29] <rick_h> for the stream to work
[13:52] <jcsackett> abentley: you use bzr-colo these days for lp, right? or am i misremembering?
[13:53] <abentley> jcsackett: Yes, but OTP
[13:53] <jcsackett> abentley: dig.
[13:53] <deryck> rick_h, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/talk.google.com/orange-one-on-one
[14:13] <jcsackett> sinzui: looks like you fixed some failing code for me; thanks.
[14:15] <mabac> adeuring, would you land this fix? it's approved but I'm not sure it's landed: https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-infrastructure/launchpad/fix-work-item-brackets/+merge/97584
[14:15] <adeuring> mabac: sure
[14:16] <mabac> adeuring, thanks!
[14:18] <sinzui> jcsackett, I am still looking into the pillar-person failure. I think it is spurious.
[14:18] <jcsackett> sinzui: it certainly looks it.
[14:19] <jcsackett> i've run it locally, and that failing test passes.
[14:19] <wgrant> Is it MemoryHogJob again?
[14:19] <sinzui> I will pqm-submit it once I merge tip into
[14:19] <sinzui> yes it it
[14:19] <sinzui> wgrant, yes
[14:19] <wgrant> Spurious.
[14:19] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm around now.
[14:20] <jcsackett> abentley: awesome. i'm having a problem with my colo setup that is leading bzr lp-propose to believe my submit branch is lp:~jcsackett/launchpad/devel. i'm certain i have just set things up poorly.
[14:22] <abentley> jcsackett: Okay, so bzr-colo branches are not special, they just live in a weird location (.bzr/branches).  When you configure them, you may need to keep that in mind.
[14:22] <jcsackett> abentley: yeah, i knew that. i bzr colo-ified a branch of lp:launchpad, and renamed the core branch "devel" instead of "trunk".
[14:23] <jcsackett> abentley: my submit_branch is then listed as the branch in the .bzr/branches path.
[14:23] <jcsackett> (which is cargo cult from the default rocketfuel setup, which sets lp-branches/devel as the submit)
[14:23] <jcsackett> but i'm guessing that's where i've goofed?
[14:24] <sinzui> jcsackett, pillar-person is merged
[14:24] <jcsackett> sinzui: you're today's hero. :-)
[14:25] <abentley> jcsackett: Okay, it sounds like your "devel" branch needs its public_branch configured to be bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
[14:25] <jcsackett> abentley: ah, yeah, that could be it.
[14:27] <abentley> jcsackett: just trying something...
[14:28] <jcsackett> abentley: i'm trying that out now.
[14:29] <abentley> jcsackett: You can do this using the config command: bzr config --scope=locations -d .bzr/branches/devel public_branch=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
[14:31] <jcsackett> abentley: it would appear that my branch was indeed badly setup with its public branch.
[14:33] <abentley> jcsackett: All good now?
[14:33] <jcsackett> abentley: so it would appear. thanks! :-)
[14:33] <abentley> jcsackett: np
[14:34] <abentley> sinzui: Do you know the root cause of the spurious MemoryHogJob failures?
[14:34] <sinzui> I do not
[14:34] <abentley> sinzui: Me neither.  I was just curious, since I wrote it.
[15:55] <rvba> rick_h: around?
[15:56] <rick_h> rvba: yep
[15:56] <rvba> rick_h: quick heads up: convoy has been packaged in precise and we're using it in MAAS.
[15:56] <rick_h> awesome
[15:56] <rvba> Just wanted to let you know :)
[15:57] <rick_h> rvba: very cool, thanks for the heads up
[15:57] <rvba> The name of the package in precise is python-convoy.
[16:31] <adeuring> has anybody seen this EC2 error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/886528/ ?
[16:44] <deryck> adeuring, do you have an smtp_server specified in $HOME/.bazaar/bazaar.conf?
[16:45] <adeuring> deryck: yes, but the error occurs on the EC2 instance
[16:48] <deryck> adeuring, hmm, maybe this is the thing wgrant mailed he fixed in the ec2 in lp-dev-utils.  which ec2 are you using?
[16:49] <adeuring> deryck: a recent version in lp-dev-utils: 105
[16:50] <deryck> adeuring, ah, yeah.  update to 106, the latest, and I think it will fix itself.
[16:52] <adeuring> deryck: ah, thanks -- I used the wrong parent branch...
[16:52] <deryck> adeuring, np!
[17:34] <czajkowski> any idea where I'd find mr. poolie ?
[17:36] <jelmer> czajkowski: he's in .au so probably enjoying weekend at the moment :)
[17:37] <czajkowski> bah
[17:37] <jelmer> czajkowski: he's sometimes around in our evenings though, usually from 20 or 21 UTC
[17:37] <czajkowski> timezone will be the death of me one of these days
[17:37] <czajkowski> jelmer: thanks
[17:37] <czajkowski> wanted to triage his bug after reading his email
[17:41] <czajkowski> has anyone gotten any bug mails with no subject in them ??
[17:42] <czajkowski> have never seen or experienced this but have a user saying they are getting mail with no bug title in the subject in mail
[17:45] <jelmer> I don't recall ever seeing that
[17:45] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/190848
[17:45] <_mup_> Bug #190848: font in terminal does not resemble font in preview <Fontconfig:Confirmed> <GNOME Terminal:Fix Released> <Ubuntu:Invalid> <fontconfig (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu):Invalid> <gnome-terminal (Ubuntu):Fix Released by desktop-bugs> <vte (Ubuntu):Fix Released> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/190848 >
[17:45] <czajkowski> is the bug in question
[17:55] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/138775  hah found a bug
[17:55] <_mup_> Bug #138775: Notification subject included bug number but no summary <email> <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/138775 >
[19:42] <jpds> Guys, from a buglist in the API, how can I search for which ones have a specific tag?
[19:43] <jelmer> jpds: I'm not sure; I usually just use the advanced search thingy, which allows you to search for both tags and search terms
[19:44] <jpds> I'm trying to look for bugs people in a team are subscribed to with a certain tag.
[20:17] <benji> if anyone would like to do a teeny-tiny little review, I would appreciate it: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/test-bugs/+merge/97975
[20:32] <sinzui> benji, r=me
[20:33] <benji> thanks sinzui


[03:09] <gpl71_nv> ?
[03:38] <ChinnoDog> .
[07:34] <JonathanD> mornign.
[09:09] <rmg51> mornign?
[09:11] <rmg51> Morning JonathanD
[09:16] <JonathanD> Yes.
[09:17] <JonathanD> hi rmg51
[09:17] <rmg51> o/
[09:17] <rmg51> fun morning
[09:18] <rmg51> the fire alarm went off at 2:30 am
[12:05] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
[13:43] <ChinnoDog> That doesn't sound very fun.
[13:45] <ChinnoDog> Was there a fire?
[14:16] <rmg51> false alarm
[14:17] <rmg51> never good at that hour
[14:18] <rmg51> most people don't even go to the lobby to find out if it's real or not
[14:19] <jedijf> future ashes
[14:20] <teddy-dbear> not me, I'd be gone :-/
[14:24] <waltman> rmg51: My building had an alarm at that hour, and it was a real fire. When I dragged my butt outside I looked up and saw flames shooting out a window of a unit on the 10th floor. Now I *always* go out.
[14:25] <waltman> Nothing like purifying flame to put the fear of God into you :)
[14:26] <waltman> I think this was the time that someone got caught out in the rain. When they got home they decided to put their wet shirt over the halogen lamp "to dry" and then go to sleep.
[14:26] <waltman> Alcohol may have played a part in that decision.
[14:27] <rmg51> we've had "food" fires before
[14:28] <rmg51> pots have been known to burn
[14:28] <rmg51> or the food itself hen left in the toaster oven too long


[10:21] <trijntje> I just installed 14.04 on an Acer Aspire one 725 and the touchpad is disabled on boot. What package should I file a bug against?
[10:21] <trijntje> bonus question: how do I fix this? ;)
[15:56] <Logan_> trijntje: please use #ubuntu for support questions
[21:47] <karab44> when this bugfix will be available for update ? https://launchpad.net/~eugenesan/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/4095467/+listing-archive-extra


[07:18] <didrocks> good morning
[07:20] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:22] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:55] <Laney> moin moin
[07:56] <seb128> hoi
[07:56] <willcooke> morning
[07:56] <didrocks> morning
[07:57] <willcooke> hi didrocks
[07:57] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:58] <duflu> Morning Laney, seb128, willcooke, oSoMoN
[07:59] <duflu> Is there a PPA around that might contain Nvidia 418.30?
[07:59] <seb128> tseliot, ^
[08:08] <ricotz> duflu, yes, but not updated for the libnvidia-egl-wayland change
[08:08] <duflu> ricotz, no problem I only want to test a Xorg driver fix
[08:08] <ricotz> duflu, https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages
[08:09] <duflu> which Nvidia don't seem to have publicly documented, but privately mentioned
[08:09] <duflu> Ta ricotz
[08:17] <duflu> Anyone know a more official PPA from say tseliot or tjaalton?
[08:17] <duflu> For Nvidia 418
[08:18] <tjaalton> duflu: graphics-drivers ppa maybe
[08:18] <ricotz> duflu, https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
[08:18] <tjaalton> that ^
[08:18] <ricotz> but concerning the mentioned issue I haven't copied it there
[09:39] <tseliot> duflu: I am going to upload here soon too https://launchpad.net/~oem-solutions-group/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia-driver-staging
[09:48] <duflu> tseliot, thanks. I have already decided not looking at it today
[09:48] <duflu> So I will bookmark that
[10:08] <duflu> trevinho, Laney, is there an env var to override glib schema search dirs?
[10:08] <seb128> Trevinho, you marked https://trello.com/c/bRmox812/131-glib-bookmarks-rename-crash-fix as fixed in bionic-SRU but at least the glib change is not in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.56.3-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[10:08] <duflu> Trevinho ^
[10:10] <seb128> duflu, it's looking in XDG_DATA_DIRS dirs
[10:10] <seb128> so you can add to that list
[10:10] <duflu> Oh. Ta seb128
[10:10] <seb128> np
[10:11] <seb128> duflu, there is also GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR
[10:11] <seb128> which it uses in addition to the system ones
[10:11] <seb128> like GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR=builddir/data/
[10:12] <seb128> not that you need to compile the schemas in ther (glib-compile-schemas)
[10:13] <Laney> indeed
[10:13] <seb128> note*
[10:14] <duflu> Well, XDG_DATA_DIRS works. Now completed relearning what changed in the past two weeks to make gnome-shell runnable
[10:15] <duflu> -re
[10:34] <seb128> didrocks, thx for doing the sponsoring for those unity session changes, I had dropped some references to those in my backlog but wasn't near to get to them yet
[10:37] <didrocks> seb128: no worry! I'm going to still try a session restarts (so probably will upload the last one tomorrow) to ensure that everything is ok for the one with UPSTART ref
[10:37] <seb128> trevinho, Laney, thx for the glib/bionic SRU :)
[10:37] <seb128> didrocks, makes sense, no hurry for that
[10:37] <didrocks> btw, launchpad branch handling is confusing :/
[10:38] <didrocks> (as the previous MP was another branch, and it wasn't reverted)
[10:38] <Laney> seb128 the Launchpad spy ;-)
[10:38] <didrocks> anyway, fixed in 19.04.2, and not a big issue
[10:38] <seb128> k
[14:06] <jamesh> robert_ancell: https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/blob/master/src/xdp-utils.c#L500-L501
[14:31] <willcooke> mpt, https://trello.com/c/SuVs7ZZA/120-can-we-enable-geoclue-out-of-the-box
[14:31] <willcooke> I've added you to the card so you should have edit rights
[14:31] <mpt> thanks
[16:12] <Laney> what's running profile.d in graphical sessions?
[16:25] <Laney> bash
[16:28] <seb128> good old bash
[18:12] <k_alam> seb128: Hi,  the logout issue we talked about was fixed upstream, can we cherry pick that for systemd-240-7 ?
[18:12] <k_alam> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/11697
[18:12] <gitbot> systemd issue (Pull request) 11697 in systemd "Notify about Job property change when job is uninstalled" [Pid1, Closed]
[18:24] <seb128> k_alam, k
[18:24] <k_alam> Thanks.


[08:47]  * apw yawns
[10:29]  * cking reboots
[10:44] <caribou> apw: morning, remember the small patch you sent my way a while ago (bug 1233175)
[10:44] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1233175 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Kernel panic : mempolicy potential use-after-free on server running mongodb" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233175
[10:56] <apw> caribou, some yep
[10:59] <apw> caribou, not that i can find it right now, you got a copy?
[11:00] <caribou> apw: sure, let me forward your email
[11:00] <apw> it must be here somewhere, but if you have that is easier :)
[15:20] <apw> cking, THP did you notice any increase in resident set on your test rig when running?  just noted the warning in the config option
[15:21] <cking> apw, good question, I need to check for that, I completely overlooked that fact
[17:18] <jdstrand> ogasawara: hey-- check out this paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6546723/. The machine is using wlan0, not eth0 but after a few minutes eth0 shows this weird output even though eth0 isn't being used. This is happening on a Lenovo IdeaPad U460 on precise
[17:19] <jdstrand> ogasawara: I think this may have started with 56 (I"ve seen it on -56 and -57-- cursory testing of -55 didn't show it)
[17:19] <jdstrand> ogasawara: have you seen any bug reports with weird networking on recent precise SRU kernels?
[17:20] <ogasawara> jdstrand: hrm, I haven't heard of anything.  jsalisbury, bjf: ^^ sounds familiar at alll?
[17:21] <ogasawara> jdstrand: sounds fairly reproducible though from your description.  would you have time to run through a few test kernels to bisect it?
[17:22] <jdstrand> at some point-- it isn't my system (it is my wife's and she is using it)
[17:22] <bjf> ogasawara, jdstrand news to me
[17:23] <ogasawara> jdstrand: can you do an 'ubuntu-bug linux' from it for me
[17:24] <ogasawara> jdstrand: we can check if we have hw in our possession to reproduce
[17:24] <jdstrand> ogasawara: otoh, is there a trick with doing that from cli only?
[17:24] <ogasawara> jdstrand: hrm, not sure there
[17:24] <jdstrand> ok, let me see what I can do
[17:24]  * jdstrand doesn't have lp credentials on that machine
[17:25]  * ogasawara wonders if we have the same kit in cert to test with
[17:26] <jdstrand> ok, I just ssh in and do it and it walks me through
[17:27] <rtg> it might just be a stable update on that driver in -56.
[17:28] <jdstrand> that is what I was wondering
[17:30] <jdstrand> erf, lp timeout error
[17:31] <jdstrand> ogasawara: bug #1259255
[17:31] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1259255 in linux (Ubuntu) "incorrect ifconfig output for unused wired ethernet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259255
[17:32] <ogasawara> jdstrand: thanks, we'll see if we can chase this down
[17:37] <jdstrand> ogasawara: so, I've rebooted her into -55. I used the same networking tests that I did on -56 and -57 and ifconfig still looks ok. I'll keep an eye on it
[17:38] <rtg> jdstrand, no changes to atl1c ethernet driver since Ubuntu-3.2.0-55.85. Does it happen right away ?
[17:38] <jdstrand> no-- it seems to happen after I connect to a jabber server. I did that on -55 and it is still ok
[17:39] <jdstrand> rtg: is atl1c the wired driver?
[17:39] <jdstrand> rtg: cause note-- the machine doesn't have a cable connected to it on eth0. it is only using wireless on wlan0
[17:39] <rtg> jdstrand, but you're connecting via wifi, right ? According to your dmesg it is an atl1c ethernet device.
[17:39] <rtg> [    2.140905] atl1c 0000:04:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 18 (level, low) -> IRQ 18
[17:39] <rtg> [    2.140918] atl1c 0000:04:00.0: setting latency timer to 64
[17:39] <jdstrand> after using the network via wlan0, after a while eth0's ifconfig is weird
[17:40] <rtg> ok
[17:40] <jdstrand> yes, connecting via wifi
[17:41] <rtg> so, its likely something external that changed interrupt routing, or stats updates in the net sub-system, etc. I imagine jsalisbury can help you with a bisect.
[17:41] <jdstrand> she was complaing about networking issues in general on -57-- but she reboots so infrequently it is possible whe was running -55 until today/this weekend
[17:41]  * jdstrand nods
[17:41] <jdstrand> I did see a lot of 'net' changes
[17:42] <jdstrand> in the changelog
[17:42] <rtg> yep, I saw those as well
[17:42] <henrix> jdstrand: its weird that you have "[ 5322.316796] device eth0 entered promiscuous mode"
[17:42] <henrix> jdstrand: was this some test you exec'ed?
[17:42] <jdstrand> no. I used tcpdump on wlan0
[17:42]  * jdstrand just checked history
[17:43] <henrix> ah, ok. that could explain it
[17:43]  * henrix notes that all the ifconfig values are roughly 2^32 (a hint for overflows?)
[17:44] <rtg> likely an underflow
[17:44] <jdstrand> this was interesting in -proposed's kernel: net: heap overflow in __audit_sockaddr()
[17:45] <jdstrand> but there were several things in -proposed kernel that looked interesting. I didn't try -proposed yet
[17:46] <jdstrand> hrmm, -55 has it too
[17:47] <jdstrand> it seemed to take a little longer, but I see it
[17:47] <rtg> jdstrand, is it related to promiscuous mode ?
[17:47] <jdstrand> I haven't used tcpdump since this reboot
[17:50] <rtg> jdstrand, knowing the atl1c driver, this issue might have existed since the first release. there have only been 2 stable updates since then.
[17:50] <jdstrand> I wonder if it is in linux-firmware
[17:50] <jdstrand> I recorded that I upgraded linux-firmware on 12-04
[17:51] <rtg> jdstrand, checking... but I don't recall that it loads firmware.
[17:51] <jdstrand> (the date that is)
[17:51] <apw> atl1c, is that an ethernet device
[17:51] <apw> having to rmmod that rings a bell, so i might have one
[17:52] <rtg> jdstrand, only firmware load is from your wifi gizmo
[17:54] <rtg> jdstrand, just for kicks try installing the Saucy LTS kernel to see if you get the same result
[17:55] <jdstrand> I wonder if this is a red herring for her network issues. I guess I should try -23 to see if it was always there and -58 to see if it fixes it
[18:29]  * rtg -> lunch
[18:47] <jdstrand> ok, -58 exhibits the problem. -23 didn't in the amount of time I tested it. the saucy-lts kernel did not either, but I couldn't test it for very long cause the nvidia driver wasn't behaving
[18:47] <jdstrand> I updated the bug
[18:48] <jdstrand> right now I put her on -58 and trying to see if her network issues go away
[18:51] <xclaesse> Anyone knows what's causing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1258838 ?
[18:51] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1258838 in linux (Ubuntu) "[LENOVO 23252EG] suspend/resume failure" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[18:52] <xclaesse> it's a really annoying regression in 13.10
[18:52] <xclaesse> if I can provide any extra info, please ask
[18:53] <cking> apw, rss updated hugepage info in your inbox
[19:35] <jsalisbury> jdstrand, I posed a comment in the bug.  We can either perform a regular bisect to find the commit that introduced the bug, or we can perform a "Reverse" bisect to find what commit fixes this in Saucy.
[19:50] <jdstrand> jsalisbury: well, I'm not 100% sure that it is not broken in -23 or fixed in saucy.
[19:50] <jdstrand> I'll need to get back to you and let her run -23 for a while (since getting saucy to work for her would take me a bit of fiddling with nvidia)
[19:51] <jsalisbury> jdstrand, ok.  We can bisect if there is a way to reliably reproduce the bug.
[19:51] <jdstrand> that's the trick. it seems to show up in -55 - -58 regularly, but I don't have a reduced test case yet
[21:03]  * rtg -> EOD


[20:23] <tsimonq2> jose: Ping.
[20:24] <tsimonq2> I really really hope I don't have to be 18 to be an org admin... :(


[04:39] <Keybuk> fabbione: can you try the same source, build and install that
[04:40] <fabbione> Surak: i don't understand why you want to enable via on amd64/powerpc
[04:40] <hunger> Keybuk: You got a deb?
[04:40] <fabbione> Keybuk: sure... in a few tho...
[04:40] <Keybuk> hunger: which architecture?
[04:40] <hunger> Keybuk: Sorry, I do not have build tools on my box.
[04:41] <hunger> Keybuk: x86.
[04:41] <Keybuk> moment
[04:41] <hunger> Keybuk: oh, wait, I'll just build it here and push it over.
[04:41] <Surak> fabbione: the driver works on amd64, but gets stucked at 640x480. This patched file corrects that. I would like to compile the amd64 the ubuntu way.
[04:42] <fabbione> Surak: do you have a url for via graphic drivers on amd64 machines?
[04:42] <Surak> fabbione: I have a binary one, I don't remember anymore where I got it.
[04:43] <fabbione> Surak: i mean.. URL to the hw
[04:43] <fabbione> i have never seen via with amd64
[04:44] <hunger> Keybuk: Aehm... how do I extract the files I downloaded from your site? There must be a debian way to do this...
[04:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's building..
[04:45] <hunger> Ah... dpkg-source does the trick;-)
[04:45] <Keybuk> hunger: dpkg-source -x _.dsc
[04:47] <hunger> I am spoiled by apt-get source;-) Sorry for that simple question.
[04:47] <Surak> fabbione: http://www.surak.eti.br/linux/ubuntu/via_drv.o works on breezy-amd64
[04:47] <fabbione> Surak: i didn't ask for a driver.. but for hw link
[04:48] <fabbione> Surak: link to a vendor that does via with amd64
[04:48] <Surak> oh, sorry. msi does
[04:48] <hunger> Keybuk: rebooting with udev version 21
[04:49] <Surak> fabbione: they sell em64t and amd64 using via boards. we sell about 2000 from those per month.
[04:49] <fabbione> Surak: ok... please file a bug on malone against xserver-xorg-driver-via
[04:49] <hunger> Keybuk: That version works better: No 3min break.
[04:49] <fabbione> Surak: including the URL's to the patches.
[04:50] <fabbione> Surak: it looks important enough to make it going properly
[04:50] <Surak> fabbione: this is valid for breezy? dapper come with it and it works.
[04:50] <hunger> Keybuk: System comes up fine.
[04:50] <fabbione> Surak: oh breezy!
[04:50] <fabbione> Surak: nope..
[04:50] <fabbione> Surak: only dapper...
[04:50] <fabbione> Surak: i see where you are going now..
[04:51] <fabbione> Surak: you need to edit debian/control, search for the driver and change the line for the architecture
[04:51] <Surak> fabbione: that's why I've asked for help on compiling it. We ship ubuntu on those machines. And customers are not happy with 640x480...
[04:51] <fabbione> Surak: but breezy won't get an update
[04:51] <fabbione> it's something you are doing on your own
[04:51] <Surak> fabbione: oh I can't believe is that simple. I've been looking areound the whole x tree - duh
[04:52] <fabbione> Surak: that's the Debian part.. you will need to make sure via recongnized as valid driver on amd64 into the Xorg tree as well
[04:52] <fabbione> Surak: it's in an Imakefile
[04:53] <fabbione> if you grep for stuff like mga or sis
[04:53] <fabbione> you will find it easily
[04:53] <Surak> fabbione: and I have to put the patch on debian/patches, of course.
[04:53] <fabbione> yes
[04:54] <Surak> fabbione: I can make and provide this patch from myself. 2000 machines/month is a good test case.
[04:55] <fabbione> Surak: yes, but it's an update we can't push into dapper
[04:55] <fabbione> i mean breezy
[04:55] <Surak> fabbione: sure. But does it qualify for breezy-backports?
[04:55] <fabbione> Surak: nope..
[04:56] <fabbione> Surak: backports are unmodified sources from release X+1 rebuilded without modification in release X
[04:56] <Surak> fabbione: which would require backporting the whole X tree, I presume.
[04:57] <fabbione> that won't work
[04:57] <fabbione> because new X requires too much
[04:57] <Surak> fabbione: yes, I understand.
[04:57] <Surak> fabbione: thanks for your attention. time to lunch now.
[04:58] <fabbione> Surak: welcome
[05:17] <mdz> infinity: samba changelog?
[05:37] <Kinnison> Kamion: grrreat, current daily hangs at the waiting for root filesystem message
[05:38] <Kinnison> Kamion: aah no, it just takes aaaaages before it gets on with it
[05:38] <Keybuk> if fabbione's server wasn't so damned slow ...
[05:38] <hunger> Kinnison: keybuks new udev (21) fixes this for me.
[05:38] <Keybuk> I mean, 24 cpus and it takes more time to build udev than my p200
[05:39] <Kinnison> hunger: cool, so tomorrow's daily should be cleaner
[05:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: break and redirect.. really
[05:39] <Keybuk> Kinnison: to be fair, I *did* say it was probably broken on u-d-a
[05:39] <Kinnison> Keybuk: aye
[05:39] <Keybuk> though why are you using evms/lvm/md/dmraid?
[05:40] <Keybuk> they are evil and the spawn of satan
[05:40] <Kinnison> Keybuk: me?
[05:40] <hunger> Keybuk: lvm rocks!
[05:40] <Keybuk> Kinnison: that is the only bug I'm aware of
[05:40] <hunger> Keybuk: as for md: I prefer SW to HW raid.
[05:41] <hunger> Keybuk: Roasted a raid controller once and had *huge* trouble getting the disks going again.
[05:41] <Keybuk> it's not the theory I hate, just the implementation
[05:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's because it clashes with your implementation :)
[05:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: please stop that build and pipe it...
[05:42] <fabbione> we are going to get old at this speed
[05:42] <Keybuk> fabbione: bah, it's nearly finished now <g>
[05:43] <fabbione> reasonably old that we won't be able to reproduce anylonger
[05:43] <johannesen> so why isn't sablecc-3.x in dapper?
[05:43] <Keybuk> I have no plans to reproduce anyway; though David claims he's "eating for two"
[05:43] <Kinnison> Keybuk: well, I imagine the livecd is using devicemapper?
[05:44] <Keybuk> Kinnison: squashfs and unionfs?
[05:44] <Keybuk> though that may mean extra initramfs goo, yes
[05:44] <Kinnison> Keybuk: dunno, but either way it got stuck
[05:44] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:44] <Keybuk> probably another symptom of the same bug
[05:44] <Keybuk> I've fixed it by doing it the way we should have done it in the first place
[05:44] <Kinnison> :-)
[05:48] <Kinnison> Kamion: so far so good, I have the label in place and being set when you change pages
[05:49] <fabbione> SILENCE!!
[05:49] <fabbione> ahhh
[05:49] <fabbione> NOISE again...
[05:49] <fabbione> :/
[05:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: this better be good :)
[05:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: no no.. i am going to remove even the powercords from this thing
[05:50] <Keybuk> what's the point of having it if you're not going to leave it on?
[05:50] <Kamion> Kinnison: cool
[05:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: collection? :)
[05:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: i won't have it forever anyway
[05:51] <Keybuk> can I have it?  I could do with a way of getting my heating bill down
[05:51] <hunger> Keybuk: Having one would be enough for me:-)
[05:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's a 6 months loan.. it will go back 9/11/2006
[05:52] <fabbione> and i am not kidding.. 9/11
[05:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: that's almost enough time to boot it
[05:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: hehe
[05:53] <Kinnison> Kamion: Now all I need to do, is to turn the self.current_page into a N of M
[05:53] <Keybuk> "one cpu ... two cpus ... three cpus ... four cpus ..."
[05:53] <fabbione> so let see...
[05:53] <fabbione> twentythree cpu
[05:53] <fabbione> 48000 Nogo
[05:53] <fabbione> Bogo
[05:53] <fabbione> there.. it works
[05:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: good job..
[05:54] <Keybuk> I'm a genius
[05:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: that qualifies you as (the only) X maintainer
[05:55] <Keybuk> excellent
[05:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: please remove X from the archive, love the maintainer
[05:55] <fabbione> Keybuk: ehehe
[05:55] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am powering off this thing
[05:55] <Keybuk> aww
[05:55] <fabbione> or do you need it more?
[05:55] <Keybuk> then I can power it on and make you jump
[05:55] <Keybuk> nope
[05:55] <Keybuk> it books
[05:55] <Keybuk> I'm happy
[05:56] <Keybuk> boots too
[05:56] <fabbione> ok logout or your session will hang in a sec :)
[05:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: thppt
[05:56] <xhaker> mjg59: you around?
[05:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: if we didn't have X, we wouldn't need OpenOffice, dbus, HAL, network manager, firefox, and all the other things that make our life hell
[05:57] <Keybuk> :p
[06:01] <Kamion> that would certainly reduce our bug count, I guess
[06:01] <Keybuk> of course, we couldn't use launchpad either
[06:01] <ogra><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:01] <ogra> Timezone: Europe/Berlin
[06:01] <ogra> Ubuntero: Yes
[06:01] <ogra> Karma: 84256
[06:01] <Kinnison> and you can build w3m-img for framebuffer
[06:01] <ogra> err, wow
[06:02] <Kinnison> karma has been re-scaled for balancing
[06:02] <Keybuk> Kinnison: I guess it wouldn't be any more painful than Launchpad is under Firefox
[06:02] <ogra> Kinnison, ahh
[06:02] <Kinnison> Keybuk: not much
[06:02] <Keybuk> after all, pain plateaus after a certain point
[06:02] <Kamion> though I keep forgetting about it until just before the publisher's due to run, so it's taking a while
[06:03] <Surak> ogra: your karma is so high you are nearby becoming buda.
[06:03] <ogra> hehe
[06:03] <Surak> nearly
[06:03] <ogra> i think my body is still to much in shape for being a buddha
[06:03] <ogra> but i'm working on it ;)
[06:03] <dholbach> ogra: look at seb128's karma :)
[06:04] <ogra> wow
[06:04] <dholbach> yeah ;)
[06:04] <jono> ok I am off
[06:04] <jono> bye all
[06:05] <Surak> ogra: looking at seb128's karm you're not becoming buddha soon. sorry.
[06:05] <ogra> heh
[06:05] <ogra> i wasnt planning to switch to enlightenment anyway :)
[06:08] <mjg59> xhaker: Hi
[06:09] <xhaker> mjg59: my Fn keys are acting up
[06:09] <xhaker> mjg59: do you want to hear?
[06:09] <mjg59> xhaker: How so?
[06:10] <xhaker> mjg59: in example.. the multimedia keys sometimes register 0x03 or something.. and sometimes Xf86AudioPlay
[06:10] <xhaker> and similar
[06:10] <mjg59> xhaker: That's not a terribly helpful report, I'm afraid
[06:11] <mjg59> Firstly, is this under gnome or KDE? Secondly, register under what?
[06:11] <xhaker> mjg59: sorry, i'm trying to explain that the same key spawns two diferent key codes? in gnome, at the keyboard shortcut applet
[06:12] <mjg59> Something is causing the keycode to be bound to the keysym. I've no idea why.
[06:12] <mjg59> It shouldn't be a problem
[06:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: N-of-M patch in http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/bzr/espresso/ui-fixes
[06:13] <xhaker> mjg59: i haven't tryed assigning the keys before
[06:13] <xhaker> in dapper
[06:13] <mjg59> xhaker: You shouldn't have to assign them
[06:15] <xhaker> oh, it's an acer laptop. it has those  and $ keys next to the cursor keys.. they also don't work.. don't bother
[06:15] <xhaker> those keys are stupid
[06:16] <Kamion> Kinnison: you have a duplicate self.set_current_page in on_steps_switch_page now
[06:19] <Kamion> Kinnison: we should make lblStepNofM translatable; I'd change its name to step_progress_label or something, then add espresso/text/step_progress_label to debian/espresso.templates with "_Description: Step ${STEP} of ${TOTAL}" and run debconf-updatepo
[06:20] <Kamion> although we might have to wibble the i18n framework a bit to get that properly retranslated on the fly when selecting a different language
[06:20] <Kamion> Kinnison: do you want to do those now, or shall I merge and fixup?
[06:21] <Kinnison> Kamion: You may as well merge and fixup
[06:21] <Kinnison> :-)
[06:21] <janimo> Kamion, thanks for the promotions
[06:22] <Kinnison> So how big is dapper/main these days?
[06:22] <janimo> dholbach: your blog entry just made me close most of xubuntu bugs which were left unclosed for some reason
[06:22] <janimo> so we're down to 4 I think
[06:23] <dholbach> every call for help on bug triage/bugs seems to result in more bugs... so don't count your chickens before they hatch ;)
[06:23] <janimo> Kinnison is there a way in LP to link subscribe a team so certain packages
[06:23] <dholbach> yeah
[06:24] <janimo> so xfce stuff gets automatically assigned to xubuntu-team even if mainatiners says debian-xfce
[06:24] <dholbach> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/<package> -> bugmail settings
[06:24] <janimo> dholbach: thanks I'll check that out
[06:25] <janimo> how existent/good is LP's mail interface
[06:25] <janimo> for something like for packages in a,b,c; subscribe mail address;kthxbye
[06:26] <Kamion> Kinnison: ok, no problem, thanks for that!
[06:40] <mvo> Kamion: I dropped of the net earlier and I think I missed the result of your try to promote python-vte in breezy-updates :) ?
[06:49] <janimo> Kamion, xffm4 does not currently install (old 4.2 version new not packaged yet) if this is a problem you can postpone promoting it
[06:53] <doko> Kamion: openoffice.org-l10n-br is in NEW, please promote to main, pitti: please adjust the language packs
[06:57] <Kamion> mvo: 14:55 < Kamion> mvo: blocked by bug 36022
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36022 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "change-override can't handle pockets" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36022
[06:58] <Kamion> janimo: xffm4 isn't listed in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt anyway; presumably not seeded and nothing depends on it
[06:58] <janimo> Kamion, ok then I thought you were going through the wiki page
[06:58] <janimo> indeed it's not seeded
[06:59] <janimo> OTOH there are packages which are seeded but not yet approved
[06:59] <janimo> shall I remove them from the seed until they are approved so they do not block CD build?
[06:59] <Surak> fabbione: there?
[06:59] <mvo> Kamion: thanks!
[07:00] <janimo> mvo, had a chance to look at the update-manager no-gconf thing?
[07:01] <mvo> janimo: not yet, what was the subject of the mail again?
[07:01] <janimo> hmm I have to look it probably had update manager and gconf in it :)
[07:02] <janimo> and/or
[07:02] <janimo> the only mail you got from me in tha past month if that helps searching
[07:03] <janimo> mvo, right it is 'update-manager and gconf'
[07:03] <Kamion> janimo: to unblock the CD build, I'd recommend waiting until everything you absolutely need has been promoted to main, and then rebuilding xubuntu-meta pointing only to main and restricted, not universe or multiverse
[07:03] <janimo> Kamion, right I'll wait
[07:03] <Kamion> janimo: then it's OK for other things to remain seeded pending approvals
[07:04] <Kamion> xfce4-terminal needs an approval for libxml-perl, and I'll do xfdesktop after this publisher run
[07:04] <mvo> janimo: thanks, found it
[07:04] <Kamion> and there's a load of plugins still to do
[07:04] <Kamion> ... to be approve
[07:04] <janimo> Kamion, hmm libxml-perl let me see I think many xfec packages use a package which is very similarly called
[07:04] <Kamion> d
[07:05] <janimo> xml-perl-parser maybe that would siffice
[07:05] <janimo> suffice
[07:05] <Kamion> there's libxml-libxml-perl as well, I forget the difference
[07:05] <janimo> it should
[07:05] <dholbach> libxml-parser-perl?
[07:05] <janimo> ah libxml-parser-perl is not in main
[07:05] <dholbach> hu?
[07:05] <janimo> then I'll have to add that to the wiki I though it was standard gtk-doc requirement
[07:05] <Kamion> libxml-parser-perl is in main
[07:05] <Kamion> libxml-parser-perl |     2.34-3 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[07:06] <Kamion> libxml-parser-perl |     2.34-4 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[07:06] <Kamion> libxml-parser-perl |     2.34-4 |        breezy | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[07:06] <janimo> Kamion, ok I'll check terminal probably only needs that only not libxml-perl
[07:06] <Kamion> libxml-parser-perl |     2.34-4 |        dapper | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[07:06] <Kamion> since ever
[07:06] <dholbach> it definitely is, without, there wouldn't be much translation love :)
[07:06] <kmon> Keybuk, Hi. I've just upgraded udev and it has broken my amd64
[07:06] <Kamion> right, thanks
[07:06] <janimo> I missed a question mark there, was actually wondering how come it's not in main :)
[07:06] <Keybuk> kmon: to 20 or 21?
[07:07] <kmon> mmmm
[07:07] <Kamion> janimo: which source package are we supposed to be using now, xfdesktop or xfdesktop4?
[07:07] <kmon> I've upgraded an hour or so
[07:07] <Keybuk> dpkg-query -W udev
[07:07] <janimo> Kamion, the one that provides 4.37
[07:07] <kmon> I don't really know :(
[07:07] <janimo> 4.3.7svn
[07:07] <Keybuk> kmon: likely 20, it's fixed in 21
[07:07] <janimo> I always forget which
[07:07] <Kamion> xfdesktop4 then; that explains some weirdness
[07:07] <Kamion> janimo: shall I remove xfdesktop?
[07:08] <Keybuk> it's not frozen, it'll timeout after three minutes and carry on
[07:08] <janimo> Kamion, yes please
[07:08] <janimo> and I have a llist of xfce packages to remove if you're doing that
[07:08] <kmon> Keybuk, my bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/36038
[07:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36038 in udev "New Udev package has broken my system and it can't boot." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[07:08] <Kamion> janimo: sure, let me know and I can do them in about twenty minutes
[07:09] <Kamion> preferably with a reason for each removal
[07:09] <kmon> I haven't waited 3 minutes though....
[07:09] <kmon> I'll try now
[07:09] <stewski> is there a known issue with tvtime showing green screen on dapper
[07:09] <janimo> Kamion, the reason is the same for all. xfce4.2 packages which were supreseded/replaced (in both normal and dpkg way) by new ones
[07:10] <stewski> tuning is fine and so is sound but video and menu overlay dont show
[07:10] <stewski> oh and do you know the command to run the gstreamer config tool?
[07:11] <zyga> hey guys
[07:13] <Kamion> janimo: ok, it's useful in each case to have the package it was superseded by, for our records
[07:13] <Kamion> that way the removal log is more useful
[07:13] <janimo> Kamion, xfdesktop, xfce4-toys, xfce4-taskbar-plugin, xfce4-systray, xfce4-iconbox (replaced by xfdesktop4, xfce4-utils, xfce4-panel for the last three)
[07:13] <Surak> Keybuk: how can I make breezy's xorg try to compile a driver it will originally not? I mean, a driver is enabled for i386 but it's not for amd64. How can I try to change that? It is in some Imakefile, it seems. But no success up to now.
[07:13] <sivang> hey janimo
[07:14] <Kamion> ok, thanks, I'll kill those
[07:14] <janimo> Kamion, thanks
[07:14] <janimo> sivang, hey
[07:19] <zyga> dholbach: ping
[07:19] <dholbach> zyga: pong
[07:19] <zyga> dholbach: I lost track of ontv 1.8.8 inclusion, is there anyone makin the UVF exception?
[07:19] <zyga> if no then I'll file a bug about it and start reading thru the diff
[07:19] <dholbach> zyga: bug 33441
[07:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33441 in ontv "UVF exception 1.6.2 -> 1.8.6" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33441
[07:20] <zyga> k
[07:20] <zyga> will that include my fixes that have been submitted into gnome cvs yesterday?
[07:21] <dholbach> zyga: i suppose not, it's talking about 1.8.8
[07:21] <dholbach> zyga: ask johan to make another release, I'll CC oyu on the bug
[07:21] <zyga> great, I'll mail him right away
[07:22] <dholbach> zyga: I asked him on the bug report - he's CCed too
[07:22] <dholbach> zyga: so no need for the mail
[07:23] <zyga> okay
[07:23] <stewski> should the multimedia selector come up with
[07:23] <zyga> I still need to mail the maintainer of the polish translation to approve my improvements, johan has asked for that
[07:24] <stewski> failed to construct test pipeline for ALSA on the test in the multimedia selector?
[07:24] <stewski> on default input plug in
[07:27] <zyga> done
[07:27] <stewski> well its like being at the bar in my local :-)
[07:28] <Kamion> janimo: xfce4-utils doesn't conflict/replace xfce4-toys?
[07:28] <Surak> someone? help me to compile BREEZY via driver in amd64's ubuntu package?
[07:30] <Kamion> janimo: and xfce4-panel doesn't conflict/replace xfce4-taskbar-plugin either
[07:32] <Kamion> janimo: anyway, xfdesktop, xfce4-toys, xfce4-taskbar-plugin, xfce4-systray, xfce4-iconbox all removed
[07:34] <KaiL> hmm, one of the last days updated seams to produce lockups in gtk apps (and maybe somewhere else too..)
[07:35] <Robot101> uh
[07:35] <Robot101> the "reboot required" dialog
[07:36] <Robot101> has the "instantly reboot my computer now without confirmation" as the bottom right button
[07:36] <Robot101> I don't consider this safe
[07:36] <Robot101> it's usually the "this file has been changed, save?" save as the bottom right action
[07:37] <Robot101> I don't think rebooting my computer is very... affirmative
[07:37] <janimo> Kamion, ah sorry actually xfce4-session is that Replaces xfce4-toys
[07:37] <zyga> Robot101: ask mvo to change this then
[07:37] <janimo> and conflicts too
[07:38] <Robot101> bah
[07:39] <Robot101> I suppose it's correct and I'm just a moron for clicking it.
[07:40] <zyga> Robot101: check the gnome HIG
[07:40] <zyga> it might be wrong, you might be wrong
[07:40] <zyga> don't guess, just checek
[07:40] <zyga> check
[07:41] <Robot101> I think it says the affirmative action is always in the bottom right
[07:42] <Robot101> the wording is along the lines of "you should reboot now" "rebooting is required to save the world and stuff might not work unless you do it" <later> <now>
[07:42] <Robot101> so yeah
[07:43] <Kamion> janimo: ok
[07:48] <highvoltage> does the ubuntu community council have an irc channel?
[07:48] <tseng> #ubuntu-meeting is the home of all meetings including CC
[07:49] <tseng> most members are here in between
[07:49] <ogra> highvoltage, you mean a channel where Kamion, elmo, mako and sabdfl idle all day ?
[07:49] <highvoltage> ogra: something like that :)
[07:50] <ogra> :)
[07:50] <ogra> most likely this one then :)
[07:50] <Surak> it's #nerd-heaven :-)
[07:50] <highvoltage> ogra: i wanted to ask about adding something to the CC agenda, but i'll just add it anyway.
[07:50] <ogra> you'll get comments on the wikipage usually ...
[07:52] <Kamion> highvoltage: no, we don't
[07:54] <highvoltage> ogra: hehe :)
[08:09] <LaserJock> anybody know of a list of admins/moderators (I'm not sure what they are called) for #ubuntu ?
[08:25] <sabdfl> hardly
[08:25] <Treenaks> LaserJock: chanserv can tell you
[08:26] <mdke> LaserJock, i think there is one on the wiki. But yeah, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list I think
[08:26] <LaserJock> Treenaks, mdke thanks
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> can someone explain something to me about debian packages?
[08:41] <Seveas> doko, ping
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> Debian packages are more than simply archives of files; you need to account for files changing ownership between packages, diversions, actions of maintainer scripts, etc.
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> Believe me, there is more to this than finding copies of the files which came from the .deb, and even that isn't straightforward.
[08:41] <bluefoxicy> ^^^ specifically that, re taking a package vs a root at which it was installed and locating the files from the package
[08:43] <mdke> bluefoxicy, mdz wrote that, you can ask him. or follow that thread on the mailing list
[08:43] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, the postinst script can do arbitrary things, including creating, deleting and moving files.
[08:44] <bluefoxicy> mdke:  I'm aware, but he's never gone into much detail with things.  My experience with mdz is his arguments are largely "Look, you can't do that, there's reasons for it, it just doesn't work because things aren't that simple"
[08:44] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  I'm aware of that, I just don't see it as something extremely common
[08:45] <bluefoxicy> I hardly think packages are majorly scripts that take a tarball that was created from a tree of files and shuffle it around for no real reason
[08:45] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, then you're terribly wrong I'm afraid
[08:46] <mdz> bluefoxicy: I've gone into more detail in the past; this is hardly the first time someone has proposed this
[08:46] <mdz> if you didn't follow the previous discussions, please read the list archives
[08:46] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  so you mean if I like, unpack an xorg-server tarball, i'll get a blob of files in ./xorg/files/ that are all in one directory; and some script will actually build the directory tree from scratch?
[08:47] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  "you need to account for files changing ownership between packages"  <-- well at least that is straight false, which leads me to question.
[08:47] <mdz> bluefoxicy: I'm afraid it isn't
[08:47] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, search malone for Replaces: and Conflicts: to find keybugs rant about people abusing them
[08:47] <Seveas> it contains a very thorough explanation about it
[08:48] <mdz> install package foo, which contains /usr/bin/foo.  package foo2 Replaces: foo, installs a different version of /usr/bin/foo
[08:48] <mdz> the version of /usr/bin/foo you need to reproduce the .deb is no longer available
[08:48] <bluefoxicy> mdz and?
[08:48] <mdz> and you lose
[08:48] <bluefoxicy> this proposal is not "let's create a reusable .deb file that's stripped down"
[08:49] <mdz> it's "add a hacked up backend to dpkg which tries to gather the necessary bits from a filesystem"
[08:49] <mdz> I understand what you're proposing and it's not something that I think is worthwhile
[08:49] <mdz> but if you want to try it, that's none of my business
[08:49] <doko> Seveas: pong
[08:49] <bluefoxicy> mdz yes; however, you seem to be missing the fact that the actual deb that needs the bits and the filesystem supplying them are both immutable and interdependent.
[08:50] <bluefoxicy> in other words the deb would be specifically stripped to match with a file system as it exists at that specific time, kind of like when you have a spanning zip archive to fit across 3-4 floppies and if you change the content of it you can't just update one of the floppies and hope it's okay.  They're all one big unit.
[08:50] <Seveas> doko, re: the path issue: it has improved from being /usr/bin:/bin to /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games - still no /usr/sbin:/sbin though
[08:51] <mdz> bluefoxicy: all I can say is, good luck
[08:51] <bluefoxicy> mdz I could try it, though i'd have to find the unpacking routine in dpkg, probably have to wait until I have more time though because I'm writing a paper and jobhunting and about to go to a cyberdefense competition
[08:51] <mdz> don't expect anyone else to do this work
[08:52] <bluefoxicy> mdz I understand how debian works; if they don't think it's worthwhile, you can write something the size of the codebase in OpenOffice.org and they'll shrug and ignore it without a second look
[08:52] <bluefoxicy> and I understand how ubuntu works; if it doesn't get into debian, it doesn't get into ubuntu.
[08:52] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: That's quite obviously untrue
[08:53] <mjg59> The livecd is a good example of this
[08:53] <Kamion> gfxboot is another
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  It's quite obviously fuzzy.  I've seen the exact debian-ubuntu argument used to kick a few things back such as certain gcc compiler patches.
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> "We'll do that when debian does that"
[08:53] <doko> Seveas: ok, asking Mithrandir (he did the PATH magic)
[08:53] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: Individual maintainers have different policies.
[08:53] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: that's obviously a matter of resources
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  fair.
[08:54] <mjg59> With basic infrastructure like gcc, there's an incentive to stay close to Debian. It means there's more people looking at problems that come up.
[08:54] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: Ubuntu has finite resources, and it's important to make use of the (often) bigger development/testing community in Debian where possible/sensible
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  although I'm quite sure an entire distro isn't going to use a modified version of apt/dpkg that has no chance of making it into mainline debian
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> at any rate
[08:54] <Kamion> that's true
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> this discussion has gone far off into tangent
[08:54] <Kamion> although you're certainly welcome to prototype ideas that can then be looked at with a little more experience
[08:55] <doko> bluefoxicy: even staying close to upstream. gcc very rarely sees patches which are not integrated upstream
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> heh.
[08:55] <Seveas> doko, btw: root path includes the /sbin's and missed /usr/games - that seems correct
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> "there's nothing wrong about an executable stack though. It's been part of Linux ever since."  o_o
[09:01] <bluefoxicy> anyway I have things to do.
[09:49] <wasabi> Any movement on an Ubuntu port to arm?
[09:49] <sivang> pitti: ping
[09:50] <sivang> pitti: any idea why hal's property capacity returns different values depends on the CD ? I have one CD which it reports 200MB for
[09:50] <sivang> pitti: any idea how to get the real capacity?
[09:50] <sivang> sjoerd: ^^
[09:51] <Burgwork> wasabi, most of the pieces are there, due to it being mostly debian and there was an effort. see EmbeddedUbuntu on the wiki
[09:51] <wasabi> k
[09:51] <sjoerd> sivang: dunno, is it a blank cd or a written one with 200mb's of data ?
[09:51] <sivang> sjoerd: one of the is a written one with 200MB of data :)
[09:52] <sivang> sjoerd: but capacity should be the theortical available space ,, not how much was consumed :)
[09:53] <sjoerd> dunno what the exact definition is
[09:54] <fabbione> sivang: for ro media it's sligtly different..
[09:55] <fabbione> sivang: 200MB is correct becuase the session is closed and can't be reopened..
[09:57] <fabbione> i guess xfce4 made it in main...
[09:57] <sivang> fabbione: I see, so instead of reporting the capacity it says how much was occupied?
[09:58] <fabbione> sivang: the capacity at that point is 200MB
[09:58] <fabbione> it's a corner case where the capacity becomes the same as used space
[09:58] <sivang> fabbione: okay, thanks, this helps alot :)
[09:58] <fabbione> think it as shrinking a partition that you can't grow anylonger
[09:58] <sivang> right
[09:59] <sivang> fabbione: how can I find out how much room is left on an multisession, not finalized CD?
[09:59] <fabbione> sivang: no idea.. i don't have such luxury like empty/multisession CD's
[10:00] <sivang> fabbione: k, thanks a lot!
[10:05] <dieman_> heh
[10:05] <dieman_> the gnome cups printer wizard for windows printing sucks when it comes up with 20-30 'please login for blah workgroup'
[10:05] <dieman_> as it annoys every laptop on the subnet
[10:07] <dieman> ive had my synaptics pad flip out twice in the last week but no good logs from it
[10:15] <dholbach> jdub: rocket powered cheerios... hahahaha :-)
[10:19] <j^> is it possible to change all those * in password dialogs to ?
[10:19] <j^> or all  to *
[10:20] <j^> right now its 50/50
[10:20] <mjg59> j^:  is probably correct
[10:20] <mjg59> But was difficult in the pre-unicode world
[10:21] <j^> just tried with NetworkManager, its set in the .glade file <property name="invisible_char">
[10:21] <j^> setting that to  does not work, i get an invalid unicode error
[10:21] <Amaranth>  is better
[10:22] <j^> Invalid UTF-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text()
[10:28] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[10:28] <Pygi> evenin' dholbach
[10:55] <_ion> Good morning.
[10:55] <Pygi> night _ion ;)
[10:56] <Pygi> _ion: I think we can drop l-r-m from our repo now...
[10:56] <Pygi> thoughts?
[10:56] <_ion> pygi: As the patch gets to the official package, sure.
[10:56] <Pygi> _ion: yup, agreed
[10:57] <_ion> pygi: Btw., i have made some changes to the n-m package. I'll email them to you and tonio, i'll let you decide whether a certain thing i did is teh evil, or should it be uploaded to the repo. :-)
[10:57] <Pygi> _ion: btw. perhaps we should look on a way to make n-m scan, as long as no network cable is plugged in
[10:57] <Pygi> _ion: lol, ok ^_^
[10:57] <Pygi> will check right away...
[10:57] <_ion> I didn't send the email just yet.
[10:58] <Pygi> yup, I know...
[10:58] <j^> is there any solution for the orinoco regression wrt WEP keys?
[10:59] <seb128> j^: bug #3300
[10:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3300 in gksu "gksudo does not follow GNOME password hiding style" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3300
[11:00] <seb128> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7714 too
[11:00] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 7714 in gtk+2.0 "Change default invisible character for GtkEntry" [Normal,New]
[11:01] <j^> seb128 i reported 7714 some releases ago
[11:08] <pitti> Kamion: (not urgent) can you please NEW postgresql-common for the new split off postgresql-client-common package?
[11:09] <pitti> good night everyone
[11:09] <j^> seb128 what about switching to 0x25cf in ubuntu gtk?
[11:10] <j^> afaik ubuntu does not use any fonts that do not provide  by default
[11:12] <seb128> j^: I didn't do it the cycle we got the bug because it was not best time for that cycle
[11:12] <seb128> j^: I'll try that tomorrow
[11:14] <mroth> the new xserver-xorg appears to have fixed bug 35172 , however no direct rendering / acceleration.   Should I file a new bug against xserver-xorg-driver-i810 for that?
[11:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35172 in xserver-xorg "X.org with i810 Driver Cannot Detect i945GM chipset" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35172
[11:17] <mjg59> mroth: Are you sure you're running with i810 rather than vesa?
[11:19] <mroth> mjg59: the Xorg.log appears to be loading i810, so I would think so.  Easy way to absolutely confirm?
[11:19] <mjg59> mroth: No, that should be it
[11:19] <mroth> also, looks like bug 35739 is a duplicate of my 35172, or vice versa
[11:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35739 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "Missing support for 945GM chipset" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35739
[11:20] <mjg59> When you say no direct rendering/acceleration, do you mean no 3D acceleration?
[11:20] <mroth> mjg59: no 3d acceleration (glxgears is actually slower than with vesa, less than 1fps), but also glxinfo reports "Direct rendering: no"
[11:22] <wasabi> I have this strange desire to try to install Ubuntu on my n770.
[11:22] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[11:23] <wasabi> Wonder what the driver status is like in the kernel and X.
[11:23] <HrdwrBoB> in it's own way, the 770 has a touch of ubuntu
[11:23] <HrdwrBoB> ;)
[11:23] <mjg59> mroth: Ok. Is i915 (the kernel module) loaded?
[11:23] <HrdwrBoB> (daniels is working on it)
[11:24] <jdub> 770 shares the same wonderful roots with ubuntu :)
[11:26] <mjg59> sladen: Around?
[11:26] <sivang> wasabi: what's n770 ?
[11:26] <wasabi> the nokia handheld.
[11:26] <zyga> sivang: nokia linux based handheld
[11:26] <Riddell> mjg59: he's not
[11:26] <zyga> with the open source maemo platform
[11:26] <zyga> rather not sucessfull due to limited memory and lack of extensibility
[11:27] <wasabi> Yeah. Not too happy with it. I mean, it's pretty neat.
[11:27] <jdub> zyga: ... it has been very successful, moreso than expected
[11:27] <wasabi> But I can't use it for anything.
[11:27] <jdub> certainly it's a 1.0 product, but it's doing nicely
[11:27] <wasabi> The software that is ported is simple stuff, Gaim, etc.
[11:27] <wasabi> Not even a usable email client.
[11:27] <jdub> (the new firmware is going to rock)
[11:27] <wasabi> What about it?
[11:28] <wasabi> jdub: know something I don't? :)
[11:28] <jdub> everything
[11:28] <jdub> speedier, cool new apps
[11:28] <zyga> jdub: the software is but the hardware had rather bad reviews and I tend to agree looking at the specs
[11:28] <wasabi> I'm disappointed that it doesn't jujst work like normal linux.
[11:28] <wasabi> This /var/lib/install stuff is stupid.
[11:28] <sivang> zyga: ah, kiko has one like this
[11:28] <mroth> mjg59: i915 is not loaded.
[11:28] <jdub> zyga: it's a tiny bit slow, but work is being done on that
[11:29] <wasabi> I'd just assume have a normal distro base, and Maemo to be nothing more than a desktop environment.
[11:29] <sivang> he played Dome or something on it when I set next to him
[11:29] <zyga> jdub: if it had 256M the it'd be really awsome
[11:29] <zyga> no memory == really useless in 12+ months
[11:29] <zyga> cpu speed is not that much of an issue but with no swap space you are pretty limited
[11:29] <wasabi> At least, I think I'll make Hildon packages for Ubuntu.
[11:29] <wasabi> If possible.
[11:30] <mroth> mjg59: modprobe i915 and restarting X does not produce DRI, however
[11:30] <jdub> that's really not true - look at the playstation, xbox, etc. not much memory, but the apps get better and better because the developers learn how to get the best out of it
[11:30] <mjg59> mroth: Anything in dmesg when i815 is loaded?
[11:30] <jdub> s/it$/the platform/
[11:30] <wasabi> I'm actually kinda excited about teh UMPCs
[11:30] <zyga> jdub: true but those are very vertical applications, not gereric 'office' apps like email and web browser
[11:30] <mroth> mjg59: only "[drm]  initialized drm 1.0.0"
[11:31] <zyga> jdub: do you think that 64M is enough? seriously?
[11:31] <jdub> absolutely
[11:31] <zyga> I work on embedded stuff daily
[11:31] <zyga> our boxes have 32 megs and do awsome stuff
[11:31] <mroth> mjg59: this is a 945GM chipset with a GMA950 card, perhaps i915 is not the proper driver (or it needs a more recent upstream?)
[11:31] <mjg59> mroth: Ok. So the kernel module doesn't support it
[11:31] <zyga> but that's not open source software with genericness,
[11:31] <j^> gates 640k is enugh, jdub 64M is enough...
[11:32] <zyga> and besides... we'll never put firefox there
[11:32] <mjg59> i915 is the right driver, though
[11:32] <zyga> nor will maemo
[11:32] <Amaranth> mjg59: does the xserver-xgl package contain a full xorg source tree?
[11:32] <mjg59> Amaranth: The source package contains a full xserver/xorg tree, yes
[11:32] <HrdwrBoB> zyga: firefox needs 100+, esp with it's worthless X pixmap handling
[11:32] <Drac[Server] > I know you don't like support questions, but I have an interesting problem and a worthy cause. I'm trying to set up a small example of how my school can use Linux as its pirmary OS, even with networking and such. I will then present my finalized, tweaked and networked ubuntu machines to the tech department. I hope to convince them to switch. Will somebody here be willing to help me?
[11:32] <mjg59> minimo needs much less than that
[11:32] <zyga> HrdwrBoB: we don't run X, does maemo?
[11:32] <mjg59> It's easily usable in 64MB
[11:33] <jdub> zyga: it's very early on in the product lifecycle - the software was actually developed quite late in the process. the next firmware improves in this respect.
[11:33] <jdub> and opera is used in devices with less than 64MB RAM
[11:33] <zyga> jdub: then I'll look forward to this
[11:33] <zyga> I wanted to buy n770 last week actually but I learned that it lacks a phone support and was mildly dissapointed
[11:33] <zyga> maybe 2.0 hardware with phone, better apps and more memory will be interesting
[11:34] <mjg59> zyga: There's a specific desire not to make it a phone. It's way too big to be used as one.
[11:34] <zyga> jdub: opera is nice for embedded stuff, yes! :)
[11:34] <zyga> mjg59: even so a GPRS web browser is usefull
[11:34] <mjg59> zyga: So you have to carry a phone /anyway/
[11:34] <zyga> a wifi-only device is limited  uness you live in a major capital city with free wifi (And I don't)
[11:34] <jdub> i thought it would fail based on the lack of mobile hardware
[11:34] <mjg59> So it might as well just do bluetooth to that
[11:35] <jdub> but now i understand - phones are phones, browsers are browsers
[11:35] <Drac[Server] > Apparently not. I remain ignored.
[11:35] <jdub> devices that try to do both *suck rocks*
[11:35] <wasabi> Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartidly.
[11:35] <jdub> Drac[Server] : #ubuntu for support foo
[11:35] <wasabi> I do not want my n770 to be a phone.
[11:35] <zyga> mjg59: two devices, two batteries, I prefer one GPRS but that's just my personal opinion
[11:35] <zyga> jdub: windows smartphones are quite nice, a friend of mine has one
[11:35] <Drac[Server] > jdub, I'm quite aware of that. Do you know how useless that channel is when it comes to remotely complicated problems?
[11:36] <wasabi> Drac[Server] : well, read the topic here, then.
[11:36] <zyga> (every time I think of changing my current phone I'm turned down by the lack of ssh to that smartphone though ;-)
[11:36] <mjg59> zyga: I like to be able to phone people without either having a silly device attached to my head or holding something the size of a small brick to it
[11:36] <jdub> Drac[Server] : yeah, but this channel is equally useless for different reasons 8) you might want to ask about it on the edubuntu mailing list
[11:36] <mjg59> Drac[Server] : Emailing the sounders list may be your best bet
[11:36] <jdub> Drac[Server] : they have particular interest in schools, thin clients, etc.
[11:36] <mjg59> Or edubuntu, as Jeff says
[11:36] <zyga> mjg59: actually my friend always uses a pocket headset
[11:37] <wasabi> Splitting out the part of Maemo that is hte unix desktop environment, to me, is a good idea.
[11:37] <mjg59> zyga: Yeah, but the majority of people don't
[11:37] <wasabi> So I can apt-get install it on Ubunut, for instance.
[11:37] <zyga> mjg59: that probably depends on the sample :-)
[11:37] <zyga> most drivers do
[11:37] <jdub> wasabi: their developer livecd is based on ubuntu, and ships with maemo
[11:37] <mjg59> Coming from a GTK development background, Maemo is lovely to develop for
[11:37] <wasabi> jdub: But it doesn't run Maemo as part of the live cd.
[11:37] <mjg59> I ported dasher in less than a day
[11:37] <wasabi> jdub: It uses scratchbox.
[11:37] <jdub> so you can run it in an appropriately sized xnest
[11:38] <wasabi> Which is quite different from actually having Maemo/Hildon be a viable Normal Unix UI.
[11:38] <zyga> I'd like a device like that with flash disk (CF internal) and more more ram
[11:38] <zyga> then I'd trade my PSP for it and have a nice browser :)
[11:39] <mroth> mjg59: should I file something against kernel-source re: the i915? or..
[11:40] <mjg59> mroth: Yeah


[15:03] <newz2000> One weekend left to work on coutndown banners
[15:04]  * thorwil grumbles
[15:29] <knome> newz2000, any idea on what design is used?
[15:29] <newz2000> knome: design for what?
[15:32] <knome> newz2000, countdown banners. i mean between slideshow/apng/... ?
[15:32] <newz2000> Well, at the moment it looks like static png.
[15:32] <newz2000> knome: No one has submitted graphics for review for an animation
[15:33] <knome> newz2000, i did. :P
[15:33] <knome> newz2000, should i upload that to the wiki as well
[15:33] <newz2000> Oh, sorry, I thought you were just submitting that as an example
[15:33] <newz2000> Yes, please do
[15:33] <knome> an example yeah, but...
[15:34] <knome> is there really something that needs to be reviewes in the artwork, as it's based on artwork somewhere else
[15:34] <newz2000> Nah, I think I can describe what we're trying to do to the people who will be reviewing
[15:37] <knome> :)


[01:23] <newDZHUSER> Hi, I wanted to check if this is still the best place to ask questions when i need help with ubuntu mate 18.04
[01:25] <newDZHUSER> I also want to ask... y'all gonna move to GitLab? (given the recent news that microsoft is buying GitHub)
[01:34] <stevecero> So I'm trying to change the icon for the Menu in the top-left corner. I'm not really fond of the Gnome Foot. Anyone know how to change the menu icon without selecting a whole new icon theme?
[01:43] <newDZHUSER> That reminds me, and this may be real noob question, how do I change to the cupertino theme?
[01:43] <newDZHUSER> when I go to Appearance Preferences -> Theme tab, I don't see it in the list
[04:03] <Voss749> whats the difference between ubuntu-mate and linux mint mate?
[04:30] <swift110> hmm good question
[05:09] <fingerprint> hi there, dont suppose anyone has an x220 thinkpad?
[05:12] <fingerprint> looking for the fingerprint driver
[06:24] <m4t> fingerprint: no experience personally but google says it has an Upek reader which is supported by fingerprint-gui
[12:35] <lehrer> hallo
[12:36] <lehrer> wie gehts
[12:36] <lehrer> soos
[13:50] <mate|33345> hello all - noob here. Is there anything that I can do to speed up the lauch time of snap applications?
[14:04] <gnugr> mate|33345: check what amount you have in /etc/default/grub GRUB_TIMEOUT=?, just set it to amount 2
[14:04] <gnugr> then do 'update-grub'
[14:09] <mate|33345> mine is set to 10
[14:11] <mate|33345> ...but i think this has to do with bootup time, correct? I was referring to the delay when launching snap applications vs normal installed applications
[14:18] <alkisg> Yeah that's just the grub menu timeout
[14:18] <alkisg> Personally I think snaps will be just another failed try of Canonical, so I avoid them completely
[14:18] <alkisg> sudo apt purge snapd :)
[14:19] <sixwheeledbeast^> But it depends on a meta-package
[14:19] <alkisg> Nah, it gets removed cleanly
[14:20] <mate|33345> i was thinking perhaps it would allow me to have the latest version of an app while running LTS distro
[14:21] <alkisg> True, that's the idea behind it
[14:21] <sixwheeledbeast^> It appears i have an old transitional package that is now replaced with snap-confine.
[14:21] <sixwheeledbeast^> You can use PPA's or other repos for that
[14:22] <sixwheeledbeast^> Bye bye snapd .. you have been purged :)
[14:26] <sixwheeledbeast^> The thing with snap applications is they will have to load all of there libs they are packaged with. So it is likely they will be slower by design.
[14:35] <valentino> hello, i need help. i want to start Cura3.3.1.AppImage but i dont know how....was searching in google....
[14:41] <valentino> someone can help please
[15:40] <Bert_2> Hi, I'm having a weird issue. I'm customising 18.04 the way I like it, but every time I edit my startup applications, it resets my previous changes (edits as well as disables). Does anyone know why?
[15:49] <gnugr> Bert_2: are all apps native package or included also 3rd party of them
[15:49] <gnugr> native packages*
[15:50] <gnugr> i faced also that behavor with firefox developer version
[15:57] <Bert_2> gnugr: I have it with an item I added by hand for seafile, dropbox (3rd party) and indicator session (preinstalled)
[15:57] <Bert_2> so I'm covering every option here :P
[15:59] <gnugr> Bert_2: if the system can't find the correct i.e. icon of them it could be frustrated
[16:00] <Bert_2> I see, you think it might reset because of lack of an icon?  Does that mean MATE is further with this than the others?
[18:05] <vkareh> humm8: other desktop environments have HiDPI support as well
[18:06] <humm8> ok
[18:11] <humm8> vkareh: Is HiDPI something which still has to improve a lot these days?
[18:11]  * humm8 considers a new screen
[18:12] <Svcdgoose> newbie to ubuntu mate
[18:12] <Svcdgoose> never used chat before.
[18:12] <vkareh> humm8: I use a HiDPI laptop as my daily driver. Works very well for me :)
[18:12] <Svcdgoose> what is hidpi?
[18:13] <vkareh> humm8: there might be a few things to improve. Marco has some things that could be scaled better, but overall it works pretty well
[18:13] <vkareh> Svcdgoose: screens with double the pixel density (aka Retina displays on Mac, for example)
[18:14] <humm8> yes, that made me happy vkareh :D
[18:14] <humm8> vkareh: High dots per inch
[18:14] <humm8> eh
[18:14] <humm8> Svcdgoose: High dots per inch
[18:15] <vkareh> humm8: I'd say give it a try, report any issues - I'm sure they'll get addressed promptly ;)
[18:17] <humm8> vkareh: I will (as long as i get some help for it)
[18:18] <humm8> Although... i am not in a hurry really, i basicly still want to wait for samsung to release a 8K screen. :)
[18:20] <vkareh> humm8: what's the resolution on those things? 7680x4320? Might need to add an extra option to MATE to support resolutions that high! Currently it supports 1x and 2x, but that might require 3x or 4x depending on how big the screen is.... which is insane, in my opinion
[18:21] <vkareh> humm8: you can always ping me for HiDPI help - I lurk in these IRC channels regularly and know just about enough HiDPI to break some stuff
[18:21] <vkareh> :D
[18:23] <humm8> thank you vkareh
[18:23] <vkareh> you're welcome!
[22:03] <BlueProtoman> I'm trying to use the nvidia drivers version 396 on Ubuntu 18.04, with a nVidia GeForce GTX 860M via Optimus.  Although `prime-select query` outputs `nvidia`, nvidia-smi fails with "NVIDIA-SMI has failed because it couldn't communicate with the NVIDIA driver. Make sure that the latest NVIDIA driver is installed and running."  I can't use CUDA as a result, and my graphics are being drawn with my Intel chip.
[22:03] <BlueProtoman> How can I fix this?