[00:00] <ubuntu__> hello how are your
[00:01] <transformers> i like KDE ))))))))))) i install KDE but they wrote me kubuntu
[00:01] <transformers> wanna sleep ))))))) how are you ?what your name?
[00:02] <transformers> at Russia in Moscow region 04.02 o`clock
[00:09] <transformers> #ubuntu-locoteams
[01:04] <Guest94857> the weirdest thing just happened on my kubuntu 11.4
[01:04] <Guest94857> no installs of new desk tops, nothing out of the ordenary
[01:04] <Guest94857> then I went to log in and it gave me an error
[01:05] <Guest94857> "Ur system is not able to run unity
[01:05] <Guest94857> then it went to a classic gnome look
[01:06] <Guest94857> all my kde is in tact..  but after 3 restarts..  just this old gnome look with top and bottom task bars
[01:06] <Guest94857> for my desk top
[01:06] <Guest94857> anyideas what may have happened?
[01:13] <Guest94857> other than my apps..  the kde desk top is completely gone
[01:19] <Guest94857> :(
[02:41] <WhiteZimbo> built the country, i guess that's my sin
[02:42] <WhiteZimbo> sorryy niggers, sorry for the big beaks and the fat lips + idiocy
[02:42] <WhiteZimbo> it's  not my fault you destroyed the country
[02:43] <WhiteZimbo> KAFFIRS
[02:43] <WhiteZimbo> why don"t the ubuntu project call it whitesrule
[02:43] <WhiteZimbo> or something like that
[02:45] <WhiteZimbo> rather than niggersaregood aka ubuntu
[02:46] <WhiteZimbo> google zimbabwe and you"ll see
[02:46] <WhiteZimbo> us whites left in zim are treated like shit
[02:46] <WhiteZimbo> we are slaves to the black majority
[02:46] <WhiteZimbo> is that equality
[02:46] <FloodBotK1> WhiteZimbo: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[03:22] <ben_stein> jolly good
[03:23] <ben_stein> pass the message: the #ubuntu ban is treason
[03:25] <ben_stein> allow #ubuntu at once
[03:25] <ben_stein> this is  diplomacy
[03:25] <ben_stein> otherwise, be damned
[03:40] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:03] <kat> Does anyone use Konversation?
[04:07] <kubu2> no 4.7.1 for natty?
[04:11] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:31] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:37] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:45] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[04:46] <DaemonFC> I don't get why every distribution has to run their own IRC server as part of freenode in the first place
[04:46] <DaemonFC> maybe it's just me, but I find it amusing that every development cycle, XChat gets set to Debian Servers again with #debian on auto join
[04:50] <malac0da13> i am having an issue getting kubuntu to update
[04:51] <malac0da13> hrmm never mind its working now...not sure what happened
[06:32] <rexm_> da?
[06:33] <rexm_> 4
[07:14]  * [DeVil-BoY] hello
[07:52] <bendras> Hi
[07:53] <bendras> how to disable password, after suspend?
[07:53] <bendras> its not in power settings, not screensaver, nor sessions :/
[07:54] <bendras> and on User Management, Modify action is disabled....
[08:50] <transformers_> hi everyone )))))))))i`m from Russia
[09:16] <transformers_> where is the girls ?
[09:16] <bazhang> transformers_, kubuntu support question?
[09:17] <transformers> yes
[09:17] <transformers> where is in kubuntu center of programs
[09:18] <transformers> for download skype , rakarrack and more linux magic programs
[09:19] <transformers> please help to find
[09:20] <transformers> i erace (delete ubuntu natty and install kubuntu........)
[09:21] <OerHeks> transformers, Kmenu > programs > system > Kpackagekit
[09:23] <transformers> thank you we not alone )))))))))
[09:25] <transformers> very cold today in Moscow..........
[09:33] <transformers_> bazhang how can i install kubuntu to my my friends and client`s when internet in not line, in windows microsoft ...internet turn on special little programm IS NOT LINUX PROGRAM
[09:34] <transformers_> sorry for my english my lang. russian )))))))))
[09:36] <OerHeks> without internet connection you can install Kubuntu fine, but you don't have all the updates/languagepacks.
[09:38] <transformers_> sorry you are not understood me
[09:41] <transformers_> internet connection  on but system by tun on line working with little program where login and password i sure when i delete windows 7 i can`t turn on internet IS A PROBLEM
[09:42] <transformers_> question to Mr OerHeks
[09:43] <OerHeks> transformers_, you need special software to connect to the internet ?
[09:44] <transformers_> yes russian f#/........ing providers have me a troble
[09:44] <OerHeks> i suggest, ask in #Ubuntu-ru for this special problem ?
[09:44] <OerHeks> they might have dealed with this before :-)
[09:45] <transformers_> in Russia ? they said pay money 200 dollars and we thinking .......
[09:47] <transformers_> OerHeks what is your country / state ? I just inerested for me ?
[09:48] <OerHeks> NL
[09:48] <transformers_> NL i do not understand please write longer name
[09:49] <OerHeks> Netherlands, europe
[09:49] <transformers_> Holland i got it
[09:50] <transformers_> thanks )))))))))
[09:53] <transformers_> OerHeks i install wallpapers om desktop of my notebook how can change pictures or install back plasma i cant find thi options
[10:01] <James147> transformers_: right click > desktop setting ( or configure search and launch)
[10:04] <transformers_> Thank you James147 and good day to you)))))))))) help me people write a song about Kubuntu i`m great guitar composer but my language is russian and my english not very well
[10:07] <transformers_> James147 + OerHeks i have core 2 duo processor my choice is 32-bit Kubuntu but 64-bit is mistake?
[10:07] <DaemonFC> I don't know why they "recommend" an obsolete architecture
[10:07] <DaemonFC> especially since x86-64 is backward compatible
[10:08] <James147> DaemonFC: Its recomeded as it will run on more computers
[10:08] <DaemonFC> here, run your Core i7 as a really fast 386!
[10:08] <DaemonFC> B-)
[10:08] <James147> DaemonFC: still have a 32bit netbook, that was only bourght a couple years ago
[10:08] <transformers_> 32 work  fine 64 work fine but ........ guitar pro 6 linux version only for 32-bit kubuntu
[10:08] <DaemonFC> yeah, those are a toy though
[10:09] <DaemonFC> and most newer Intel and AMD low power stuff are x86-64 now anyway
[10:09] <transformers_> what toy ? ))))))))))
[10:09] <James147> DaemonFC: ^^ no it isnt... and since 32bit runs fine on 64 but not the other way around 32bit will most likly work outte box if you dont know what your doing
[10:10] <transformers_> web design + musician
[10:10] <DaemonFC> well, it would work for me if I wanted to lose 4 GB of RAM
[10:10] <James147> DaemonFC: thus, its recomeded to use 32 unless you know better... which most do
[10:10] <transformers_> web build it`s all i
[10:10] <transformers_> web sites i mean
[10:11] <DaemonFC> if a person doesn't know what kind of processor they have, should you really be helping them format their hard drive? :)
[10:11] <James147> transformers_: You wont notice much difference between them unless you have more then about 4 gigs of ram anyway so it dosnt really matter
[10:11] <transformers_> 2gb RAM
[10:12] <James147> DaemonFC: Not everyone cares as much about what spicific hardware they have...
[10:12] <OerHeks> i know, they rec
[10:13] <OerHeks> i know, they recomment 32 bit so you won't have many troubles if a 64 bit version is not available. it is all about the first impression.
[10:14] <transformers_> i got it i know some problems when we use wi-fi router our passwords breaks
[10:14] <James147> OerHeks: yup :) nothing worst then people downloading the "recomeded" 64bit only to find it dosnt work on their computer... allot of people would just give up at that stage
[10:14] <transformers_> on 64-bit KDE
[10:15] <DaemonFC> the worst thing that could happen if you boot a 64-bit LiveCD on a 32-bit system is that it will complain your CPU is not a 64-bit CPU
[10:15] <DaemonFC> you're out a disc
[10:15] <James147> DaemonFC: for some thats quite expensive as not everyone can quickly redownload another disk image
[10:15] <transformers_> i download .iso from kubuntu.com
[10:16] <DaemonFC> James147: It just kind of bugs me that a lot of software companies really aren't all that forward looking
[10:16] <James147> transformers_: not sure why your wifi password would "break" on 64bit ^^ I see no reason that should matter
[10:17] <DaemonFC> consider that the software gets more bloated every year but they keep telling you to stick with an old architecture that can't handle it
[10:17] <transformers_> what )))))))))? not understood (english)
[10:17] <James147> DaemonFC: why does it matter so much? the main advantage to 64bit is a grete max memory usage per program ^^ which most people dont really need
[10:17] <transformers_> 32-bit i stay
[10:18] <DaemonFC> there's other advantages, but that is the main one
[10:18] <transformers_> agree but we not most people))))))))) we friends of Kubunu
[10:19] <James147> transformers_: I am not really sure what problem you are having... you might want to try,
[10:19] <James147> !ru
[10:19]  * James147 wonders where ubottu is
[10:20] <transformers_> yeah i read about 64-bit system...........my system 64bit but a have 2Gb Ram
[10:20] <James147> transformers_: then you can install either, it wont make much difference
[10:20] <transformers_> problems out just think what better )))))))))
[10:20] <James147> transformers_: better to use 64 bit if you plan on adding mroe ram in the future to save on reinstalling your system
[10:21] <DaemonFC> I've used the X86-64 build on a system with 2 GB of RAM before
[10:21] <transformers_> notebook )))))))i have upgrade? not
[10:21] <DaemonFC> I figured "Why not? I can, so I will. Muahahaaa!"
[10:22] <transformers_> Gyper brain transformer or Wall-e))))))))))))))
[10:22] <alvin> Most people = people who do not use akonadi/nepomuk? You'll need 64-bit for the ram usage.
[10:22] <DaemonFC> Akonadi, it goes on a RAM consuming binge
[10:22] <DaemonFC> and then it crashes
[10:23] <DaemonFC> leaving you a nice 10 MB core dump
[10:23] <DaemonFC> same time next hour :)
[10:23] <transformers_> i wanna work and give a job in canonical or Kubuntu project / I can built 160 web sites in 1 year with great disign
[10:23] <DaemonFC> I don't know why they insist on integrating more things with something that unstable
[10:24] <DaemonFC> I allege they are insane, possibly sadistic
[10:24] <DaemonFC> :)
[10:25] <DaemonFC> For a while, there was Beagle, on the GNOME side, written in Microsoft .NET and it wasn't this piggish / crash prone
[10:25] <DaemonFC> makes you think, right?
[10:25] <transformers_> can you look on my site ? there is 1 page about Ubuntu 11.04 with erotic  photos MODERATOR me
[10:26] <Mamarok> transformers_: behave!
[10:27] <transformers_> http://www.qroom1.narod.ru please use chrome browser for translation in auto mode on english It`s a russian site about Slash
[10:28] <ikonia> transformers_: stop now - you will not be warned again
[10:28] <ikonia> transformers_: the topic of this channel is Kubuntu, if your next words are not about kubuntu, you will be removed from the channel
[10:29] <transformers_> my sites about ubuntu what a problem mam?
[10:30] <ikonia> transformers_: the site you just posted is not about kubuntu,
[10:30] <ikonia> transformers_: if you talk about kubuntu, that's fine, anything else is unacceptable
[10:31] <transformers_> about kubutu a create new web site 2 days later on russiun lang.
[10:31] <ikonia> transformers_: then do that
[10:32] <transformers_> and view ))))))))))all people in Russia and World ikonia
[10:32] <ikonia> transformers_: that's fine
[10:32] <transformers_> 2-3 days becouse i`m web disign i wanna pretty site i Love Kubuntu project
[10:33] <ikonia> then do it,
[10:33] <transformers_> ))))))))
[10:33] <ikonia> please stop )))))))))
[10:33] <transformers_> ?in Russia is smile
[10:33] <ikonia> we don't need to see it
[10:34] <transformers_> ok
[10:35] <jussi> transformers_: you may want to join #kubuntu-offtopic if you would just like to chat :)
[10:36] <transformers_> i new in kubuntu offtopic not russian servise chat
[10:36] <transformers_> hi Jussi
[10:46] <transformers> i like my name
[11:50] <markit> hi, I've insalled 11.04 on a laptop of a friend of mine. Today he tells me (and I've seen that is true) he turns the laptop on and only a blinking cursor on the top left apperars, if then he presses "power off" the laptopt powers off. Could it be that he has done some "suspension" and we are not able to boot anymore? Any tip?
[11:51] <markit> can't be so unluck that laptop died just one day after GNU intallation... I can't belive it
[12:18] <afief> Should I upgrade to Kubuntu 11.10 or the 4.7PPA for 11.04 at this time?
[12:19] <kennyF> See if <ctrl><alt>F1 gets you to a console. It may be a video driver or a KDE issue
[12:19] <kennyF> Oops, sry. Wrong channel :)
[12:20] <kennyF> Shouldnt try and multitask :D
[12:25] <fitha> quassel IRC toolbar gone
[12:25] <fitha> i cannot  set up
[12:25] <fitha> no where to set up
[12:25] <fitha> why
[12:26] <fitha> quassel IRC toolbar gone
[12:28] <fitha> quassel IRC toolbar gone
[12:28] <fitha> quassel IRC toolbar gone
[12:28] <FloodBotK1> fitha: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[12:29] <bazhang> fitha, try #quassel
[12:29] <fitha> ok
[12:29] <fitha> thank u
[12:39] <transformers> fitha hi
[12:44] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:50] <transformers> BlueKaj Hiyas
[13:13] <Guest60321> hello
[13:13] <Guest60321> is there a way to touble shoot the google voice chat plugin?
[13:17] <ikonia> Guest60321: plugin for what ?
[13:18] <Guest60321> for gmail chat.  it allows you to make phone calls and video chats.
[13:18] <Guest60321> googles voice/video plugin
[13:20] <ikonia> I don't think it's supported under linux
[13:20] <ikonia> may want to check that
[13:23] <Arran> Good afternoon
[15:28] <LordCrc> hi, i'm trying 11.10 here, and some apps keeps crashing frequently (anakondi tray something and others)... now, when i click on the crash tray icon, i just get "you don't have permissions to view this report"
[15:52] <jcgs> Hi, can anyone help me, okular's really struggling to open a pdf file, tht "loaded 6 pages" bubble pops up, but all th pages are blank with okular icons in the corner, and then it hangs while using all of one of my cores :(
[15:53] <jcgs> update: it has now loaded one whole page... after about 90 secs
[15:55] <LordCrc> hmm
[15:55] <LordCrc> i recall acrobat reader having big issues with pdfs that had a lot of line drawing going on, perhaps okular too
[15:55] <LordCrc> ive never experienced it that slow though
[15:58] <jcgs> LordCrc: it's managed to load 5 out of 6 pages, page 2 is causing some difficulty
[15:59] <LordCrc> is this pdf public?
[15:59] <jcgs> yup, it's a train timetable: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/timetables/timetable/FC1105_GN3_SX_RET_WEB_1.pdf
[16:00] <LordCrc> im running okular on windows here, older release, and it does the same
[16:00] <jcgs> what's moderately annoying is that i just put okular to "aggressive" memory usage, because it normally loads pages one at a time, and the forgets them, and this was the result...
[16:00] <LordCrc> though faster
[16:00] <LordCrc> took about 30 seconds for it to crunch all pages
[16:01] <LordCrc> im guessing it's just poorly optimized in some way
[16:01] <jcgs> how bizzare... maybe i should try and tell first capital connect their pdfs are causing people problems.
[16:01] <jcgs> highly likely, they probably don't know any better
[16:01] <LordCrc> lemme check ubuntus reader
[16:02] <LordCrc> perhaps you could submit it as a bug report
[16:02] <LordCrc> with a concrete pdf it should hopefully be fairly easy to find the bottleneck
[16:03] <jcgs> good idea. I'm oging to try the full 5MB file, from which that was an excerpt, maybe it was the cutting process that went wrong...
[16:03] <LordCrc> if i could get ubuntu to boot...
[16:03] <LordCrc> heh
[16:05] <LordCrc> it's more graceful but also takes a long time to display
[16:05] <LordCrc> at least you can scroll around and such as it seems to do the processing in the background
[16:08] <jcgs> interesting... the full one has similar problems, a few of the pages are fine, but the ones with the actual timetable data are taking ages to load. like with the first one...
[17:00] <dvz> hi
[17:00] <dvz> anyone here?
[17:02] <Peace-> dvz: '
[17:03] <dvz> hey Peace!
[17:04] <dvz>  i will be happy if u can help me out :( i installed Kubuntu (ubuntu with kde, you know), but my headphones aren't working... it was the same on ubuntu 11.04 too :( how can i fix this?
[17:07] <ubuntu_> Linux Lex OS 11
[17:07] <Peace-> dvz:
[17:08] <Peace-> dvz: well , lspci | grep -i Audio
[17:08] <ubuntu_> Kubuntu 11.10
[17:08] <Peace-> ?
[17:08] <ubuntu_> Ubuntu 11.10
[17:09] <Peace-> ubuntu_: ar you talkin with me?
[17:09] <ubuntu_> im bulgarian
[17:10] <ubuntu_> не мога да пиша на Англииски
[17:11] <Peace-> !bulgarian  | ubuntu_
[17:11] <Peace-> !english | ubuntu_
[17:25] <transformers> hello every one i making first Erotic site about KDE - Kubuntu project tomorow come please come
[17:33] <transformers> i found bad (or not correct) packed in rackarrack what can i do for Kubuntu ?
[17:36] <transformers> Rakarrack is a Greatest electric guitar addon for working with guitar on PC in Kubuntu + Ubuntu
[17:47] <dvz> where did peace go :(
[17:48] <dvz> is there anyone which can help me, please :/
[17:58] <dvz> no one using kubuntu?!
[18:33] <BluesKaj> bbl...need to takre a nap
[20:42] <pelivan> ca je ovo ,sto judi a niko ni rici?
[20:48] <soee> yofel, are there any problems with 4.7.1 for 11.04 ?
[20:51] <transformers> hi everyone i created web site for your friends about screenshots kubuntu http://kubuntu-11-10.narod.ru/  my name is George Yatagan Russia<EMAIL_ADDRESS>+79057639148 my tel
[20:51] <yofel> soee: not really, except me being the only one working on it while being on vacation... so it'll be a bit delayed
[22:01] <axel> Hello!
[22:01] <axel> I use Kubuntu 11.04 and I just discovered that the .ecryptfs folder is just huge. What is in this folder?
[22:46] <giantpune> does anybody know how to move the kde desktop panels using the command line?  i have a panel placed at the top of the screen, and every time i restart the computer, that panel has moved down a bit and i must manually move it back to where i want it
[22:46] <giantpune> im thinking that if i can move it via command line, i can add something to my logon script to fix it for me
[23:07] <six86> Since a few days, there is no optical or acustical notification of incoming messages. Did not change anythinf. SOme of my friends report the same problem. I this a known issue? Is there a workaround?
[23:22] <BarkingFish> six86, when you say no optical or acoustic notification of incoming messages, in which program are you experiencing this?
[23:23] <six86> :D oops, im talking about kopete
[23:24] <six86> Since I got no reaction in #kopete i thought i give #kubuntu a try and copied the line.
[23:24] <BarkingFish> ah ok.  I don't use kopete here, so I've got no idea what's up. Let me check bug trackers and see if there is anything listed
[23:24] <BarkingFish> you may need to be patient in some channels, they may look full, but some people go afk and stay connected :)
[23:26] <six86> was patient in the early eveneing, since then more than 6 houres passed ;) and a few icq messages i read hours later....
[23:26] <BarkingFish> ah, ok.
[23:27] <BarkingFish> Well I've checked the launchpad for any bug entries describing your problem and cannot find any which match.  What you might be wise to do is to file a new bug on this issue, and see if it can be resolved.  Since it's not only affecting you, i doubt strongly that this is user error.
[23:27] <six86> I searched KDE bug tracking system, but found nothing related. I also looked at the console output and asked google, but found nothing useful. I created a bug 10 minutes ago with the wizard.
[23:28] <six86> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=281722
[23:30] <BarkingFish> Ah, ok
[23:30] <BarkingFish> I just realised Launchpad doesn't take bug entries for Kopete, so you've done the right thing filing on bugs.kde.org
[23:31] <BarkingFish> I'll bookmark that bug and keep a watch on it.  It's certainly not a known bug to them, or a search would show up others like it.
[23:34] <BarkingFish> Jetzt müssen sie eine bisschen warten... :)
[23:34] <six86> Some friends have the same issue. Very annoying. I have not much hope that anyone cares for kopete bugs that much. There are some very old bugs with no attention.
[23:34] <six86> :)
[23:35] <BarkingFish> kopete changes a great deal, six86 - plugins always being changed because of changes in the way services set up their contact protocols
[23:35] <BarkingFish> sadly, that's just nature. they keep moving stuff so you can only connect to their systems using their programs
[23:35] <BarkingFish> it's always being updated
[23:38] <six86> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158628: This bug for example, is over 3 and a half years old, and seems to be no big deal for a Qt/KDE experienced programmer. But nothing was done.
[23:43] <BarkingFish> I've just cc'd to that bug and upped it by 20 votes, to 119
[23:45] <charles> hello
[23:48] <jkoltner> Hello... under Kubuntu 11.04's System Settings->Network Settings->Network Connections, there isn't an Ethernet or WiFi card listed, yet both certainly work.  So... mmm... how does the system "know" to use them?
[23:58] <axel> Hallo!
[23:58] <axel> I try to encrypt a partition with luks but it doesn't seem to work:
[23:58] <axel> sudo cryptsetup -c aes-xts-plain -s 512 luksFormat /dev/sda2


[14:32] <dsmythies1> I'm here for some Ubuntu Doc Leadership meeting. Who is running it?
[14:32] <knome> dpm should be, but is not around yet
[14:34] <dholbach> I would be around for the meeting and I think davidcalle, mhall119  and popey also wanted to be there
[14:34] <davidcalle> dsmythies1: knome: hi o/
[14:34] <knome> hello davidcalle
[14:35] <dsmythies1> Hi
[14:35] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Hi everyone
[14:35] <GunnarHj> hello all
[14:35] <dholbach> hey hey
[14:35] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Hi you
[14:36] <davidcalle> Meeting agenda -> http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team
[14:36] <knome> davidcalle, you might want to do #startmeeting
[14:37] <davidcalle> Thanks knome
[14:37] <davidcalle> #startmeeting
[14:37] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 24 14:37:35 2016 UTC.  The chair is davidcalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:37] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:37] <popey> o/
[14:38] <dholbach> hey :)
[14:38] <GunnarHj> o/
[14:38] <dholbach> all right... shall we get started then - thanks a lot for filling out the agenda already
[14:38] <knome> before we go into the agenda, can we quickly go through the original request if anybody has questions about it
[14:39] <dholbach> sure
[14:39] <knome> so that we are on the same page on what we should discuss today
[14:39] <dsmythies1> knome: I thought the original request was well written and stated the issues well.
[14:39] <knome> (i expect everybody has read the original mail, so fire away questions)
[14:39] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Yeap
[14:40] <AlbertoSalviaNov> The pad is already very clear
[14:40] <GunnarHj> I stated one objection to the original request in a comment on the pad.
[14:40] <dholbach> I'm a bit confused
[14:40] <dholbach> the proposal seems to be mostly about getting somebody from the Canonical Community team to be assigned to lead the doc team, and then there's a number of specific issues relating to docs themselves which are on the agenda
[14:41] <mhall119> hey guys, sorry for being late
[14:41]  * mhall119 reads the backlog real quick
[14:41] <knome> GunnarHj, it's likely the inability to make decision has affected the community help wiki the most, but essentially we are again seeing discussion to moving to some other markup with the serverguide instead of seeing actual contributions
[14:41] <knome> GunnarHj, so i wouldn't say it's only the community help wiki; of course, i'm not particularly involved with the desktop or server docs
[14:42] <GunnarHj> Well, let's drop that discussion. It won't lead us forward anyway.
[14:42] <knome> dholbach, that's the agenda dpm set up, and people built on
[14:42] <dsmythies1> dholbach: I understood this meeting to be mainly about getting help.
[14:43] <dholbach> ok...
[14:43] <dholbach> it looks like we have different expectations and not everyone sees themselves represented by the agenda?
[14:43] <dholbach> or am I misunderstanding things?
[14:43] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Not my case
[14:43] <knome> dholbach, i totally agree that we should keep more on the meta level than talk about actual tasks to be worked on (though i understand that at that this point it would be essential to get the desktop guide for the LTS in at least some kind of good shape, and that might already require help from canonical)
[14:43] <mhall119> dholbach: so I don't think the request was specifically for someone in our team (canonical community team) to step up to lead the docs team, just for somebody within canonical to do so
[14:43] <knome> dholbach, talk about not being able to make decisions... :)
[14:44] <dsmythies1> I merely filled out dpm's thing about 16.04, but it doesn't matter.
[14:44] <GunnarHj> dholbach: The agenda is fine. Let's move on.
[14:45] <mhall119> pleia2: are you around to join this meeting?
[14:45] <dholbach> ok, let's use the agenda then - feel free to add more items if your item is not covered
[14:45] <knome> mhall119, she's jetlagging and probably sleeping
[14:45] <mhall119> ah, right, ok
[14:45] <dholbach> who wants to talk about the first item?
[14:45] <knome> i don't.
[14:46] <mhall119> dholbach: first item being "Pending tasks for 16.04"?
[14:46] <knome> can you ping me when we've covered that?
[14:46] <dsmythies1> I said what I wanted to say in the etherpad itself.
[14:47] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Yes knome
[14:47] <davidcalle> I have one question about the first item: names next to tasks. Eg dsmythies1 is the first taks "assigned" to you and you are looking for help, or is it a topic you want to raise?
[14:47] <GunnarHj> As regards the status of the desktop guide (which initially triggered this meeting) it's under control. Doug added the pending items to the agenda.
[14:47] <dsmythies1> I was just saying who will do it. No help required.
[14:48] <davidcalle> Ok
[14:48] <dsmythies1> The list might not be complete, I just wrote what I do (and one Gunnar thing).
[14:49] <dholbach> dsmythies1, are there any blockers regarding the desktop guide, apart from it being still quite a bit of work?
[14:49] <knome> can the community team ask for some assistance with the documentation from people who work with those specific areas?
[14:50] <GunnarHj> dholbach: No blockers.
[14:50] <knome> eg. so that dsmythies1 doesn't have to do all the work?
[14:50] <mhall119> knome: we can, it would help a great deal to get very specific needs
[14:50] <davidcalle> knome: that's what I was going to ask: do you need us to raise awareness about eg. the server guide?
[14:50] <dsmythies1> For my part of it, I lost months tryign to get a good 16.04 server (and desktop) going with which to work on. But no, not blockers now for desktop. Blocker for serverguide was inability to build PDF, but solved this morning.
[14:51] <knome> here's how i think it should go:
[14:51] <mhall119> like "Adding network printer of ipp docs have outdated instructions from 10.04"
[14:51] <knome> canonical employee works on application/area X
[14:51] <mhall119> rather than "printing docs need updating"
[14:51] <dholbach> knome, that part is understood
[14:51] <knome> canonical employee makes sure the documentation for application/area X is in order
[14:51] <mhall119> knome: that's not generally how canonical employees work
[14:51] <AlbertoSalviaNov> It is there something to talk about concerning the first item then?
[14:51] <knome> mhall119, can we make some generalisations and not focus on the minutiae?
[14:51] <knome> mhall119, because i don't think that's helpful at all
[14:51] <dholbach> knome, it's important to understand this
[14:52] <mhall119> knome: I think focusing on details is what's needed now
[14:52] <knome> okay...
[14:52] <dholbach> we basically have little idea how the team is run
[14:52] <knome> let's make an example
[14:52] <knome> serge works on LXD for canonical
[14:52] <dholbach> I am grateful for the explanation earlier
[14:52] <mhall119> knome: there isn't one canonical person responsible for application/area X
[14:52] <knome> --> serge works with the docs team to make sure the docs are up-to-date
[14:52] <knome> mhall119, i understand and know.
[14:53] <knome> another example:
[14:53] <dholbach> dsmythies1, did you reach out to the desktop team and their communications channels about this already?
[14:53] <knome> mhall119 makes a change in some package he doesn't usually work on
[14:53] <knome> --> mhall119 works with the documentation team to make sure the change is documented
[14:53] <knome> mhall119, does that make sense to you?
[14:53] <knome> currently, changes are landed and the documentation team mostly works on the documentation changes without canonical involvement
[14:54] <dsmythies1> dholbach: That would be more something that Gunnar would typically do.
[14:54] <mhall119> knome: in that scenario, does the developer update the docs, or tell someone from the docs team what changed?
[14:54] <knome> i'm not saying the canonical employees need to write the documentation, but some cooperation would be helpful; especially in the case that the documentation team can't handle all the tasks in time
[14:54] <dholbach> dsmythies1, do you know if any coordination or any reaching out has already happened? if not, we should note down we still need to do that
[14:54] <knome> mhall119, ^ see last comment for answer
[14:54] <AlbertoSalviaNov> I don't think that's the kind of involvement we need from Canonical. We just need someone to coordinate the effords.
[14:55] <dholbach> guys
[14:55] <dsmythies1> knome: Yes. We have very much a"you try and it and discover for yourselves" approach right now.
[14:55] <dholbach> what we're discussing here is coordination
[14:55] <dholbach> so please let's go through this one by one
[14:55] <GunnarHj> dholbach: What do you mean by "coordination or any reaching out"?
[14:56]  * knome waits for dholbach to tell who can speak then
[14:56] <dholbach> GunnarHj, my first impulse was to talk to the desktop team or mail their mailing list and see if there's anyone who could help with the screenshots
[14:56] <GunnarHj> dholbach: I made a "call for help" request on the docs list, and we did the most necessary work already.
[14:56] <dholbach> knome, I was under the impression we used the agenda now
[14:56] <dholbach> GunnarHj, ok... so the screenshots for the desktop guide are done then?
[14:56] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Doug will do the screenshots. It's under control!
[14:56] <knome> dholbach, okay.
[14:56] <dholbach> ok, great - sorry for the confusion then
[14:56] <dsmythies1> dholbach: I will do the screenshots. I have doen them for many cycles now.
[14:57] <dholbach> thanks a lot dsmythies1
[14:57] <dsmythies1> hoeever...
[14:57] <mhall119> thanks dsmythies1, do you have a script or workflow that you use which others can follow?
[14:57] <dsmythies1> let me say something.
[14:57] <dholbach> sure
[14:57] <dsmythies1> the issue with the screenshots is that we have to do them so very very late in the cycle.
[14:58] <dsmythies1> mhall119: I do not use a script.
[14:58] <dsmythies1> the script has always been a waste of time, in my opinion.
[14:58] <dholbach> GunnarHj, I was just thinking of the desktop team list because I know there's lots of subscribers, some only listening in, and maybe somebody to help with screenshots (or related work) could maybe recruited there the next time :)
[14:59] <dsmythies1> I set up a minimum szed screen, for maximum left over resolution after re-sizing.
[14:59] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Possibly. But we are talking about 5 screenshots or so..
[14:59] <dholbach> oh ok
[14:59] <dholbach> in that case that's not necessary O:-)
[14:59] <AlbertoSalviaNov> I think that's a trivial problem right now
[14:59] <dholbach> ok, cool
[15:00] <dholbach> GunnarHj, what are the desktop master files?
[15:01] <GunnarHj> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/trunk
[15:01] <dsmythies1> dholbach: I meant the master bzr branch in Launhpad
[15:01] <mhall119> and what needs to be updated on those?
[15:01] <mhall119> are there MPs or bug reports or something that lists what needs to be done?
[15:02] <GunnarHj> mhall119: The screenshots, translations, and we are done.
[15:02] <dholbach> cool - are the translations teams busy with the translations already?
[15:02] <dsmythies1> mhall119: No, this is now the regular release procedure. No MP or bug report.
[15:03] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Hope so. The tempate is in Rosetta.
[15:03] <mhall119> GunnarHj: is there a list of screenshots that need to be updated?
[15:03] <dholbach> maybe somebody could ping the team another mail?
[15:03] <dsmythies1> mhall119: I have not decided yet which screen shots need to be re-done.
[15:03] <knome> dholbach, there are problems related to translation teams "working", but dpm told it was off-topic for this meeting; i've added the item to the agenda again though.
[15:04] <GunnarHj> mhall119, dholbach: Please!!! dsmythies and I have it under control. No extra action needed!
[15:04] <dholbach> ok, let's move on to the next item then
[15:04] <AlbertoSalviaNov> What is the most important think to talk to? start there!
[15:04] <dholbach> GunnarHj, sorry, we're finding our way around here and wanted to make sure the points on the agenda are well understood
[15:05] <AlbertoSalviaNov> About sorry
[15:05] <mhall119> GunnarHj: we were asked to help the docs team, in order to do that we have to understand the state of things, which is why we're asking all these questions
[15:05] <GunnarHj> dholbach: No problem. But I just want you to know that we did some work after the CC meeting when we said that no work had been done yet.
[15:06] <knome> whoever is adding items to the agenda, please add it as the last item.
[15:06] <dholbach> shall we talk about the server guide then? that seems to be next on the agenda?
[15:06] <slangasek> doko bdmurray robru cyphermox: hi, looks like there's another meeting in progress here; #ubuntu-meeting-2?
[15:07] <mhall119> sorry slangasek
[15:08] <dsmythies1> serverguide is in trouble. it is falling behind reality. We only started doing anything with it after string freeze.
[15:08] <knome> dsmythies1, can i suggest something that you likely agree with?
[15:09] <dsmythies1> knome: Go ahead.
[15:09] <mhall119> dsmythies1: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, is where a list of what specific things need updating on the server guide?
[15:09] <knome> instead of talking about the work items we need to take, could we talk about how this situation doesn't repeat again with the next release, and what kind of cooperation from what teams would be needed
[15:09] <AlbertoSalviaNov> I agree with knome in that regard
[15:10] <dsmythies1> mhall119: wait a minute...
[15:10] <knome> since that was the intention of the original mail we have written and sent with lyz
[15:10] <dsmythies1> knome: I am wrtting...
[15:10] <knome> no hurry.
[15:11] <dholbach> knome, AlbertoSalviaNov: if we understand better what needs doing, we can note it down and figure out where we can bring people together to solve this
[15:11] <knome> dholbach, i'm sure actionable work items will bring up within the discussion
[15:11] <knome> *will be brought up
[15:12] <AlbertoSalviaNov> We simply know that nobody is really in charge of the documentation, and that is all.
[15:12] <dsmythies1> If I could go back to knome's earlier point: Myself, I think person X works on some serever aspect. Person X MUST supply documentation. The "toss it over the fence" approach does not work. I mean I just sued systemd for the first time two months ago.
[15:12] <AlbertoSalviaNov> We do not need further analysis.
[15:12] <dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, I think we do
[15:12] <knome> dsmythies1, instead of "MUST supply", i would say "must cooperate with the documentation team"
[15:12] <dsmythies1> mhall119: : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
[15:13] <knome> dsmythies1, ultimately, that might mean supplying the documentation though
[15:13] <dsmythies1> knome: The difference between the serverguide and others is that we need Subject Matter Experts. Often the docs team has no lcue how to write the stuff.
[15:13] <dholbach> right
[15:13] <dsmythies1> no clue
[15:14] <knome> dsmythies1, ack, though i see the same issue with the desktop docs
[15:14] <knome> dsmythies1, or at least the part that changes are not made known, and no cooperation effort is offered
[15:14] <dsmythies1> mhall119: We also have put out requests for help on the serverteam e-mail list and on Ubuntu forums, a few times now.
[15:14] <knome> maybe it's easier to figure out the desktop doc stuff
[15:15] <mhall119> dsmythies1: this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! So the items in yellow and red are the ones that need help?
[15:15] <dholbach> so the way I would normally approach a situation where team A and B need to work more closely together would be to put together a list of items, discuss early on which items might be subject to change, and track the list during the cycle
[15:15] <dholbach> and I think we can help in bringing the docs team people together with folks who do that
[15:15] <knome> dholbach, one of the problems related to that is that some changes land very late in the cycle and are unannounced before it's too late
[15:15] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Not working closer is not the cause but the consequence, of not having a coordinator.
[15:16] <dsmythies1> mhall119: They are the higher prioities, yes. pmatulis's original e-mail list items by priroity.
[15:16] <dholbach> and if at some stage we find there's not enough time, we could do something like: dev from team A provides some pointers, or the point is discussed on team A's mailing list and we try to rope others in
[15:16] <dholbach> knome, the team managers should know around UOS or some weeks later which blocks they're going to land
[15:16] <knome> dholbach, weight on the word should.
[15:16] <dholbach> so that time should be good to discuss the plan
[15:16] <dholbach> knome, mh?
[15:16] <knome> dholbach, i'm sorry to have "an attitude", but that's the reality
[15:16] <mhall119> dsmythies1: it looks like most are in need of review, is that something you need the developers to review, or something the docs team reviews?
[15:17] <dholbach> knome, look - I can't change the reality of a fast moving project
[15:17] <knome> dholbach, also please note that a plan isn't enough for the docs team to start working
[15:17] <knome> dholbach, say, take the gnome software inclusion
[15:17] <dholbach> I think we need to start with a plan to bring people together
[15:17] <dholbach> knome, please
[15:17] <knome> dholbach, we still don't know if it's in its final stage, but it's past the documentation freee
[15:17] <knome> dholbach, please what?
[15:17] <dholbach> I know
[15:17] <dholbach> but we can only plan for what we do know
[15:17] <knome> dholbach, i'm just pointing out the details.
[15:17]  * dsmythies1 tries to keep up...
[15:17] <dholbach> and I think that a plan and some more discussion would help a lot already
[15:18] <mhall119> knome: does the docs team currently have regular meetings with the engineering teams?
[15:18] <knome> mhall119, none at all.
[15:18] <dholbach> knome, I've been part of this project for 11 years now - don't you think I know that some stuff lands very late? I'm unhappy about this too and I'm sorry for anyone who has to do the work catching up.
[15:18] <dholbach> but I'm really trying to help here
[15:19] <dholbach> and I think that an early plan, discussed with the right people and some regular catchup will be an improvement
[15:19] <mhall119> knome: does the docs team have regularly scheduled meetings of their own, where we can invite the engineering teams?
[15:19] <knome> mhall119, not regularly scheduled, and when they happen, often not many people are able to attend
[15:19] <mhall119> ok, that's one of the first things that I think needs to happen
[15:19] <AlbertoSalviaNov> So, again, that's not the problem
[15:19] <knome> dholbach, i don't disagree.
[15:20] <GunnarHj> mhall119: There were regular docs team meetings, but not currently. We miss a leader/coordinator.
[15:20] <dholbach> knome, good :)
[15:20] <dsmythies1> mhall119: For the serverguide, we need developers to review. I can give a couple of examples, which will also relate to knome's points.
[15:21] <mhall119> dsmythies1: ok, with your detailed list we can take that to the engineering teams and ask them to assign somebody to review each one, I can't imagine a single page review would take very long
[15:21] <dsmythies1> Example 1: Samba: A major component has been dropped, well after the start of 16.04. Cost me about a month trying to make my server work. Need developer to update that chapter.
[15:22] <knome> mhall119, it would help if there was a clear understanding on what should be on the agenda, and then stick to it too.
[15:22] <mhall119> GunnarHj: how frequent were those meetings in the past
[15:22] <mhall119> ?
[15:22] <mhall119> weekly, bi-weekly, monthly?
[15:22] <knome> mhall119, understanding and agreement, that is.
[15:22] <GunnarHj> mhall119: monthly
[15:22] <mhall119> knome: for this meeting, or for regular docs team meetings?
[15:22] <knome> mhall119, both :)
[15:23] <dsmythies1> Example 2: from 14.04: The change for wen server file to default was changed from /var/www/ to /var/www/html so bery late in the cycle that we had already reviewed that chapter. Then it was broken.
[15:23] <AlbertoSalviaNov> I personally think meetings are not needed: you just bring topics inmediately as needed, as you write documentation inmediately when a change takes place.
[15:23] <knome> AlbertoSalviaNov, i disagree.
[15:23] <mhall119> for the regular meetings, I think doing something like the CC does and pre-schedule checkins with the various engineering teams so you can talk to them about what they're landing and what docs will need to change because of it
[15:23] <dholbach> Maybe we could try something like this next cycle: review the ToC early on in the cycle, figure out which will likely need updating, have regular catchups (be it by mail, IRC or whatever) with the relevant managers of the engineering teams to track progress and define an escalation process. This could also be brought up on the desktop or server lists to get others involved and more help?
[15:24] <GunnarHj> mhall119: That's a good idea.
[15:24] <knome> dholbach, would it be the documenation teams responsibility and task to check if updates are going to land?
[15:24] <dholbach> knome, it should be in the calendar of the relevant team manager and somebody who understands which blocks have already landed in the docs
[15:25] <knome> ack.
[15:25] <mhall119> knome: it would be the responsibility of both docs team and engineering teams to coordinate code landings with doc updates
[15:25] <dholbach> and if it's just an email every other week - it can be lightweight
[15:25] <dholbach> it wouldn't necessary have to be a full-blown hangout which takes 2 hours or something
[15:26] <GunnarHj> dholbach, mhall119: But we are not talking about rather obvious things that should be done. The problem is that we don't have persons to assume the leadership roles needed.
[15:27] <knome> that too.
[15:27] <GunnarHj> not->now
[15:27] <dholbach> GunnarHj, can you maybe name a few responsibilities that would fit into these roles?
[15:27] <AlbertoSalviaNov> It is simpler than having roles
[15:27] <mhall119> GunnarHj: understood, but finding out what that leader will needs to do will help us find him or her
[15:27] <GunnarHj> dholbach: We just mentioned coordination with engineering.
[15:28]  * dholbach nods
[15:28] <GunnarHj> mhall119: Ack.
[15:28] <mhall119> GunnarHj: something that we've been learning with the CC and LC is that leaders are more likely to come around if the responsibilities of leadership are clearly defined
[15:28] <knome> and as the original mail implies, coordination of the documentation team in general
[15:29] <knome> the mail even lists three actionable items; let me paste them here
[15:29] <dholbach> thanks
[15:29] <knome> – Work as a mediator with the members to resolve disagreements, be
[15:29] <knome> able to reach a consensus and get along with the work
[15:29] <knome> – Work with other Canonical employees, encouraging them to take part
[15:29] <knome> more in writing documentation, especially with the components they are
[15:29] <knome> working with themself
[15:29] <knome> – Work with the Canonical IS team to resolve technical difficulties
[15:29] <popey> I think this regular meeting could do with some help from some (one or more) of us in the community team to chase down people internally
[15:29] <knome> the community help wiki is experiencing
[15:29] <dholbach> popey++
[15:30] <mhall119> in the short term, the leader will also need to scedule the regular docs team meetings at a time and frequency that will get the most attendance
[15:31] <knome> yes
[15:31] <mhall119> and probably will need to run the meetings, at least to start
[15:31] <knome> alternatively, just schedule often enough that everybody in the team gets to participate once in a while
[15:32] <knome> because obviously there isn't a time that works for everybody, ever
[15:32] <popey> a common problem
[15:32] <mhall119> regularity still works out better than ad-hoc, but the leader can decide how best to balance those needs
[15:32] <popey> Typically helped by using meeting bot and sending out a nice update mail to the team, so people who couldn't be there can contribute via email.
[15:33] <mhall119> +1
[15:33] <AlbertoSalviaNov> Meetings take people out of work, where you could just email people when needed, and they can read and answer when it better suits them.
[15:33] <dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, I find this quite productive now
[15:33] <knome> AlbertoSalviaNov, i still disagree.
[15:33] <mhall119> meetings also let you get through more things faster, this last hour of discussion would have taken a week over email
[15:33] <dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, if you'd rather leave, I think that's fine
[15:34] <dholbach> it's also an important opportunity to bring people together from separate teams
[15:34] <dholbach> of course they shouldn't be longer or more often than necessary
[15:35] <knome> i agree that meetings *can* be distracting and useless in some cases, but i wouldn't call all meetings useless and try to avoid them like a plague
[15:35] <GunnarHj> Meetings serve the purpose to remind people about things which need to be done.
[15:35] <knome> and as dholbach said, it's agreat opportunity to meet people you wouldn't meet otherwise.
[15:36] <knome> like that AlbertoSalviaNov guy.
[15:36] <popey> +100
[15:36] <dholbach> What do you feel are the most urgent items for 16.04, which feel like they need to be rescued?
[15:36] <knome> dholbach, let me throw the ball back to you:
[15:37] <knome> what does canonical feel is the most important area in their official desktop/server documentation?
[15:37] <knome> or is it not important to them
[15:37] <dholbach> knome, I'm probably not the best person to answer this
[15:37] <dholbach> but it's a question we could ask the desktop and server folks
[15:37] <knome> dholbach, ack. this is one of the questions the coordinator for the doc team could help answer
[15:37] <knome> and keep in mind, and coordinate work based on that
[15:37] <dholbach> let's note it down
[15:38] <knome> nobody in the doc team has that insight.
[15:38] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Let's not talking more about the 16.04 desktop guide. We will be shipping a decent (I hope) set of docs.
[15:39] <GunnarHj> dholbach: No rescue plan needed, in other words.
[15:39] <dholbach> GunnarHj, ok... and for the server guide is there anything urgent we, right now, could help out with by raising awareness or doing anything else?
[15:40] <mhall119> GunnarHj: so nothing is in critical need of work from Canonical for 16.04 docs?
[15:40] <mhall119> basically, is there bleeding that we need to stop before we work on fixing the soure of the problem?
[15:40] <dsmythies1> For serverguide, yes: The entire thing needs to be reviewed for accuracy.
[15:40] <knome> GunnarHj, would you say that the desktop documentation for 16.04 has got the "minimal" effort to kept up-to-date instead of actually being able to improve it this cycle?
[15:40] <GunnarHj> mhall119: Not for desktop. Can't speak for server.
[15:41] <dsmythies1> desktop got about 1.50th of the attention it could have used.
[15:41] <GunnarHj> knome: Yes.
[15:41] <dsmythies1> 1/50th
[15:41] <mhall119> it sounds like server needs to have somebody review that list of pages
[15:41] <knome> GunnarHj, okay
[15:41] <AlbertoSalviaNov> I think there is nothing else I can contribute to this conversation, that I think we need a coordinator and everything else will come on its own.
[15:41] <dsmythies1> there is also talk of chnaging to some new markdown laguage.
[15:41] <AlbertoSalviaNov> So bye bye
[15:43] <mhall119> dsmythies1: that's something that can be worked out once a leader is identified and regular meetings start again
[15:43] <mhall119> I don't think we're prepared to make any decisions on that today
[15:43] <dholbach> dsmythies1, who's discussing this right now?
[15:44] <dsmythies1> e-mail thread on serverteam and docteam lists.
[15:44] <dholbach> did you get the feeling that the people who are discussing this would also put some work into this? :)
[15:45] <GunnarHj> +1'
[15:45] <dsmythies1> yes, there were, I think, 2 or 3 that said they would help with a markdown type change.
[15:46] <dholbach> but that sounds more like a 16.10 discussion, right?
[15:46] <dholbach> dsmythies1, is there a list of chapters which need to be reviewed with more priority than others?
[15:47] <dsmythies1> That is my thought yes, but we also had the same talk at 14.04 and then is fizzled. BY the way we only publish LTS serverguides
[15:47] <mhall119> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide#Contribution_table has the list along with priorities for the server guide
[15:47] <dsmythies1> dholbach: Yes, The link I gave earlier. I will find and repeat
[15:47] <dsmythies1> ... oh never mind
[15:47] <dholbach> thanks I must have missed it
[15:48] <dsmythies1> mhall119: BY the way for desktop: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19RdaR3G_8TQ49f-Nb0XJAwhnlweMWJqsTr4kciSV5S0/edit#gid=584037095
[15:49] <mhall119> dsmythies1: is there a priority list for those?
[15:49] <dsmythies1> No. we did a bit of priority by e-mail.
[15:50] <mhall119> dsmythies1: can you find the link to that thread in the archive and add it to our etherpad?
[15:50] <dsmythies1> I'll try...
[15:50] <dholbach> thanks
[15:51] <mhall119> thanks dsmythies1
[15:52] <hannie> I want you to have a look at the workflow at The Ubuntu Manual: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Nl3Yue69IM2EflSdyeHgADET49RZRmgfDVoxHutQIk/edit#gid=2094840941
[15:52] <mhall119> dholbach: for the immediate future, how about you and I contact the desktop and server teams with these list of review needs for 16.04
[15:52] <hannie> It does work there, but the UM is more structured than ubuntu docs
[15:52] <GunnarHj> As regards the desktop, there were a mix of list messages and private mails. Not easy to provide a link to the latter.
[15:53] <dholbach> mhall119, yes, let's chat about this later on
[15:54] <dholbach> hannie, do you want to explain a bit how the structure differs?
[15:54] <hannie> Ok. UM is divided in chapters and sections. Every contributor takes care of a certain chapter or section.
[15:55] <dholbach> And the contributors are the ones who wrote them initially?
[15:55] <hannie> Ubuntu docs is more like a set of loose pages with less structure in it
[15:55] <hannie> No, each version we have different contributors
[15:56] <dholbach> and where did you recruit them?
[15:56] <hannie> Like with the docs, we also struggle to get enough people to help, so we decided to publish only LTS versions
[15:56] <hannie> Recruting is done her:e: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[15:57] <knome> i don't think ubuntu can only ship LTS docs
[15:57] <knome> documentation needs to go with all releases
[15:57] <dsmythies1> GunnarHj: Good point.
[15:57] <hannie> knome, I agree
[15:57] <dholbach> that looks nice - good work putting this all together
[15:58] <hannie> But I waas talking about the workflow
[15:58] <knome> okay.
[15:58] <mhall119> GunnarHj: can one of you but together a list of priorities? Or at least a "top X" pages we can have the desktop team focus on?
[15:59] <dsmythies1> Desktop: The problem, the way I see it, is that I don't know if the page needs work or not until I try it. So far, evertying I have looked at has uncovered issues.
[16:01] <hannie> dsmythies1, that is why I was thinking of assigning parts of the docs to team members who can read and change "their" part of the documents
[16:01] <GunnarHj> mhall119: Hmm.. DocumentationStringFreeze was a week ago. Selecting top priority pages is quite some work. IMO we need to let 16.04 go as regards the desktop.
[16:01] <mhall119> dsmythies1: do you know which pages are going to be most commonly referred to by users?
[16:01] <dsmythies1> mhall119: No.
[16:02] <knome> mhall119, maybe the canonical IS can set something up for that
[16:02] <knome> mhall119, though they promised to do the same for the community help wiki ages ago, not seeing anything for that yet either :)
[16:02] <knome> (not blaming anybody, just pointing out)
[16:02] <mhall119> knome: you mean getting page view stats?
[16:02] <knome> yes
[16:03] <mhall119> ack, we can look into that
[16:03] <knome> isn't that the same as most referenced?
[16:03] <dsmythies1> GunnarHj:   right, we hit string freeze so we stopped. I went to serverguide, and to build issues.
[16:03] <mhall119> knome: probably
[16:03] <knome> mhall119, as you do that, here's the ticket from december 2013 for the community help wiki: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=23534
[16:04] <mhall119> knome: thanks, are there other outstanding RTs for the docs team that we need to follow up on?
[16:04] <dsmythies1> yes, but page veiw stats doesn't tell us help usage within a computer, which might be quite different.
[16:04] <knome> dsmythies1, true, though might give some insight.
[16:04] <mhall119> dsmythies1: true, but I don't think there's any way we can get that info
[16:05] <dsmythies1> agreed
[16:05] <knome> mhall119, not any i'm following ATM
[16:06] <mhall119> alright, we've gotten quite a bit of information from you guys, which is going to take some time to absorb, and dholbach and I both have action items, can we go ahead and schedule a follow-up meeting with you for next week, or in 2 weeks, to pick it up again?
[16:07] <hannie> fine
[16:07] <dsmythies1> yes, fine.
[16:07] <mhall119> same day and time, if that works well enough for everybody?
[16:07] <dsmythies1> O.K. for me.
[16:07] <GunnarHj> fine with me too
[16:07] <knome> can't promise anything, i would set a doodle poll again
[16:08] <hannie> See you all next time
[16:08] <mhall119> dholbach: are you good for next week?
[16:08] <dholbach> yes, I think that should work
[16:08] <dholbach> thanks a lot for your input everyone
[16:08] <dholbach> and thanks for the patience
[16:09] <mhall119> great, thanks everybody for your time and all of the insights
[16:09] <davidcalle> #info Notes and actions: http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team
[16:09] <dsmythies1> Thanks
[16:09] <davidcalle> Thanks all
[16:09] <GunnarHj> Thanks!
[16:09] <davidcalle> #endmeeting
[16:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 24 16:09:37 2016 UTC.
[16:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-24-14.37.moin.txt
[16:10] <popey> \o/


[01:14] <scott_ino> I'd like to try and test multi-touch support now, either with existing tools, or new ones. I was looking at Utouch but realize that they're working on new framework
[01:15] <scott_ino> for next release. So I suppose my question is, how can I test multi-touch currently
[06:33] <trinikrono_> i would like to join the xswat can someone help me prepare?
[17:08] <ScottK> Sarvatt: What would be the way to communicate the following to Intel developers in a way that would be constructive and useful (re the ongoing kwin mess):
 mgraesslin: While I'm waiting for kdebase-workspace to compile, it would help a lot if I could get a list of the capabilities Intel is misreporting (or some idea how to figure it out).  Canonical does have people that can talk to Intel if I can tell them what needs to be communicated.
 the list is rather short: we need framebuffer objects and shaders and in inderict rendering mode the unsupported (impossible) extensions should be removed. That's nothing I can provide as that's something only the driver developers can know
[17:16] <ScottK> Additionally:
 ScottK: if they need a reference: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=173556#c41
 that's how NVIDIA does it
[17:16] <ubot4> KDE bug 173556 in compositing "Shader support not detected on various systems" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[17:21] <penguin42> Any mesa guys here? I've got a bug of mine with a link to a particular patch to be cherry picked from the mesa repos that makes radeon useable on maverick and I wondered what the chances of it getting in are - bug 6269943
[17:21] <ubot4> penguin42: Error: Bug #6269943 not found.
[17:23] <ScottK> penguin42: You might look at the git snapshot in the sarvatt/mesa PPA.  If that solves your problem, then knowing that helps the chances of the mesa update getting in.
[17:23] <penguin42> bug 626943
[17:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 626943 in mesa (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] Flickering on Radeon - please cherry pick646d2e9fbc41bf49075013009e9583bec4a51168 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626943
[17:24] <penguin42> scottk: OK, will do
[17:26] <penguin42> ScottK: Is that just a build from the mesa git head?
[17:26] <ScottK> ~head yes.
[17:26] <ScottK> I think anyway.  It's take Sarvatt to know for sure.
[17:26] <penguin42> ScottK: So I'm fairly sure that will have it since my bug is just asking for a patch in the mesa git to be cherry picked
[17:26] <penguin42> (with a bit of clean up)
[17:27] <ScottK> right, but if you try that package that is specifically working towards an update in Maverick and can say it fixes the problem, that's more credible than "I think the fix is in there".
[17:28] <penguin42> ScottK: I know specifically that the git entry that I reference fixes it since I've got a ppa with that change added
[17:28] <ScottK> Yes, but how about that git commit plus all the other changes?
[17:28] <ScottK> Up to you, anyway.
[17:30] <penguin42> Yeh I can give that set a try; but is the intent in Maverick to do a mesa update generically or just to stick with the version in the beta?
[17:37] <ScottK> The X people intend to update. I don't think they've talked to the release team yet.
[17:37] <penguin42> ok
[21:39] <intrader> I am in the process of filing a bug report and I don't know the package, but suspect Xorg or the kernel (I have forum thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9782591#post9782591)
[23:53] <RAOF> Sarvatt: “../../dix/pixmap.c:118: AllocatePixmap: Assertion `pScreen->totalPixmapSize > 0' failed.” means that you've tried to copy create a pixmap before the screen pixmaps have been set up; you can see uxa_init in uxa/uxa.c(I think?) for what they do.


[18:29] <holstein> FINALLY
[18:30]  * holstein taking some time to download a daily
[18:30] <holstein> little too late to be much help with bugs


[01:32] <acrilex> Hello, I have a problem. I was translating ibus-table in french when I saw this english string to translate: English:  Big Chinese Mode. I know they are talking about characters, but it is not expressly written. Should I translate without characters (makes no sense) or add characters to the string?


[08:40] <gnomefreak> ugh its early
[08:55] <gnomefreak> asac: you here yet?
[08:58] <gnomefreak> bug 105002
[08:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 105002 in firefox "Firefox sticks to panel" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105002
[09:29] <hjmf> good morning
[09:30] <hjmf> seems that last kernel upgrade wasn't ok Bug #106063
[09:30] <ubotu> Malone bug 106063 in linux-source-2.6.20 "MASTER: Computer will not boot after 2.6.20-14.24 kernel upgrade" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106063
[09:30] <hjmf> :(
[09:32] <gnomefreak> its broke
[09:32] <gnomefreak> its known :)
[09:46] <gnomefreak> well it works for everyone else lets see if it works here
[02:39] <Admiral_Chicago> @now Chicago
[02:40] <ubotu> Current time in America/Chicago: April 13 2007, 07:40:02 - Next meeting: Forum Council in 7 hours 19 minutes
[04:16] <gnomefreak> asac: i assigned bug 11227 to you
[04:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 11227 in firefox "ubuntu search as a quick search" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11227
[11:17] <hjmf> good night!


[00:02] <maccam94> apw, any idea when "soon" is? I was under the impression that it would start showing in xenial-proposed when yakkety shipped (that's what the support timeline charts look like, anyway)
[00:03] <maccam94> we'd like to start testing ASAP so we can report bugs and upstream fixes
[15:37] <cyphermox> apw: hey; would you happen to have a minute to merge my update for the initramfs-tools git tree?
[15:37] <cyphermox> lp:~cyphermox/initramfs-tools/+git/update ->  ~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools. I don't have access to push to that.
[15:41] <apw> cyphermox, sure, it'll be a little while, but yes
[15:44] <cyphermox> ta
[17:21] <Undo_> I'm a bit confused about kernel/OS compatibility. I'd like to update the kernel on a work computer (it's on 14.04.4, kernel version 4.2.0-42-generic right now) so that it's safe against the "dirty-COW" exploit, but I'm not really sure which kernel (from kernel.org?) I should be patching to.
[17:35] <jtaylor> Undo_: 4.2 is not supported on trusty anymore, you should probably upgrade to 4.4 from ubuntu 14.04.5
[17:37] <jtaylor> which would be the linux-lts-xenial one
[17:38] <Undo_> jtaylor: Sorry about the rather naive question but what do you mean by "upgrade to 4.4 *from* 14.04.5"?
[17:38] <jtaylor> Undo_: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[17:39] <Undo_> Ah, someone in #ubuntu directed me to that page as well. I'll... try to read it more closely again but I'm not really sure I quite follow
[18:57] <erle-> was intel_powerclamp activated with the kernel update of yakkety?
[22:02] <him-cesjf> Hello I am running Kubuntu 16.10 on  a Dell laptop. For some reason, the OS hangs/responds very slowly in between while typing or switching tasks or while doing any work. During this hang/slow behaviour, I notice the fan revving in high speed, delay in typing, intermittent network disconnection and  stuck digital clock second counter which restores to normal after the lag subsides. Typing lag is really annoying which is happening while I am
[22:02] <him-cesjf> typing this quetion. Is this a kernel issue? How can I demine what is causing this?
[22:03] <him-cesjf> determine*
[22:04] <him-cesjf> And it happens in every 10 seconds or so


[09:59] <s10gopal> i can see available wifi networks but can't connect to them . Bus 001 Device 004: ID 148f:7601 Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter , please help me