[00:53] <Hobbsee> heya Rinchen!
[00:54] <Rinchen> hi there Hobbsee
[01:24] <Hobbsee> lamont: you're right, btw.  the script is not working.
[01:25] <lamont> Hobbsee: cool.
[01:25] <lamont> I guess.
[01:25] <lamont> I mean, that means it's not just me.
[01:25] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:25] <Hobbsee> yeah
[01:29] <Hobbsee> lamont: any idea on how to go about fixing lpia, btw?
[01:29] <lamont> I think it was fixed..
[01:29] <lamont> so now I'm waiting to see if I'm right
[01:30] <Hobbsee> it's still not taken any builds
[01:30] <Hobbsee> so, unless you've just fixed it, i'd say it's still borken
[01:39] <lamont> iz b0rked
[01:39] <lamont> and on the list for me to work with cprov on tomorrow.
[01:40] <lamont> someohow
[01:40] <lamont> dealing with an escalation at the day job... that just requires 100% of my time
[01:41] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[01:41] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[01:46] <lamont> I really want to have serious progress tomorrow, so that I can take thur/fri off for that national holiday thing we have this week
[02:00] <lamont> lifeless: you around?
[02:00] <lamont> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.BzrCheckError: Internal check failed: file u'/etc/init.d/stop-bootlogd' entered as kind 'symlink' id 'stopbootlogd-20071119183925-bf194164ecf5c346', now of kind 'file'
[02:00] <lamont> how do I make that go away?
[02:05] <Hobbsee> lamont: sheesh, how many did you bork?  :)
[02:05] <lamont> Hobbsee: nah - that's something different
[02:05] <lamont> and I fixed that with 'dpkg --purge bzr'
[02:05] <Hobbsee> wasnt meaning that :)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> lamont: palmer appears to have stalled, too.
[02:11] <lamont> heh.  elmo sounds different when he's asleep.
[02:16] <baijum> hi
[02:17] <baijum> when I push my changes to bzr, I am getting an error like this:
[02:17] <baijum> No handlers could be found for logger "bzr
[02:24] <Ubulette> got that yesterday too
[02:24] <lifeless> lamont: yes
[02:25] <lifeless> lamont: get a bzr released this century
[02:25] <lamont> lifeless: it's a buildd machine... iz running edgy
[02:25] <lamont> which it will continue to run.
[02:26] <lamont> I fixed it by nuking bzr
[02:26] <lamont> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'if [ -d /etc/.bzr ]; then LANG=C /usr/bin/bzr st /etc; fi'
[02:26] <lamont> where does that come from anyway?
[02:26] <Hobbsee> must be time for an upgrade.  i'm surprised it's not running dapper.
[02:26] <lamont> lpia buildds run edgy.  everything else runs dapper
[02:26] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:26] <lamont> hppa runs dapper with a gutsy kernel.  go us.
[02:27] <lamont> sadly, nuking bzr wasn't enough: I had to mv /etc/.bzr :)
[02:27] <lamont> and no, you should never run a gutsy kernel on dapper.  there are udev issues.
[02:43] <Fujitsu> Why would the lpia buildds be running edgy? Didn't they only appear post-Feisty?
[03:00] <lamont> the hardware for some of them aren't supported by dapper
[03:00] <lamont> (they run x86 bits outside the chroot)
[03:26] <lamont> oops.  hadn't realized the lpia buildds were blocking slave-scanner
[03:26] <lamont> and fixing the first bug didn't do squat for the overall success of the program
[03:39] <Fujitsu> lamont: That slave-scanner-destroying bug is meant to be fixed tomorrow, right?
[03:40] <lamont> Fujitsu: that requires some cprov/lamont time on the machines, so yeah, it's a tomorrow thing.
[03:41] <Fujitsu> lamont: I mean in 1.1.11.
[03:41] <lamont> and yes, modulo the fact that I have no time, I'll see how much time I can create to work with him on fixing it, and get lpia back in the running
[03:41] <Fujitsu> I saw something targetted along those lines, IIRC.
[03:41] <lamont> oh, no clue on that
[03:41] <lamont> I know that as of today, lpia buildd's were not building anything (they're dying with an exception).  No clue as to root cause of that, etc.
[03:42] <lamont> I have a hotsite that I'm working on (day job) tomorrow that will seriously affect my availability, though.
[03:43] <lamont> it may even affect my thanksgiving holiday
[03:50] <lifeless> lamont: for old bzr you can 'bzr rm foo; bzr add foo'
[03:50] <lamont> lifeless: ah, cool
[03:50] <lifeless> ciao
[04:35]  * Hobbsee wishes for blackholing ubuntu-core-dev
[04:46] <jamesh> Hobbsee: we're working on it
[04:47] <Hobbsee> jamesh: \o/
[04:47]  * Hobbsee is tired of getting unrelated bugmail to her, because some nutter has assigned ubuntu-core-dev, or ubuntu-dev.
[04:48] <jamesh> it won't be in this week's release though
[04:48] <Hobbsee> pity.  ah well.
[07:33] <gnomefreak> are the admins able to remove packages from PPA yet? i need to beable to overwerite a package since hte orig.tar.gz is borked and with the fixed one it has diff. md5sums so its kind of blocking me from doing anything atm
[07:35] <lifeless> when does the 0.92 support rollout on lp ?
[08:02] <jamesh> lifeless: presumably with the rest of the code this week
[08:03] <lifeless> cool
[08:09] <carlos> morning
[08:32] <Hobbsee> damn, mrevell isnt here yet.
[08:48] <carlos> Hobbsee: he should come soon
[11:30] <ubotu> New bug: #164304 in rosetta "Duplicate empty translations" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164304
[11:34] <Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/palmer  	 Started 22 hours ago
[13:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: ping
[13:39] <mrevell> hello Hobbsee!
[13:39] <Hobbsee> :D
[13:39]  * Hobbsee --> query
[13:42] <lamont> morning Hobbsee
[13:42] <Hobbsee> heya lamont!
[13:42] <Hobbsee> lamont: how goes it?
[13:44] <lamont> Hobbsee: showered, shaved, dressed, and heading to work in about 20 seconds
[13:44] <Hobbsee> lamont: well done :)
[13:45] <lamont> :-D
[13:46] <lamont> and a conf call in about 5 hours on the escalation, for which I have much to get done.
[13:46] <lamont> :(
[13:46] <lamont> anyway, out the door
[14:30] <ubotu> New bug: #164340 in rosetta "Do not fetch suggestions for read-only messages like translator credits" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164340
[14:38]  * Hobbsee ponders the idea of team sub-ppa's.
[14:39] <soren> sub-ppa's?
[14:40] <Hobbsee> as in, a team owns a ppa - that there's one for production stuff, and one for random testing stuff
[14:45] <Hobbsee> mpt: you said https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-members/+editemail was a typo - what's the correct address supposed to be?
[14:48] <Hobbsee> +2 more bugs for me to file.
[14:48] <soren> Hobbsee: Teams can have ppa's already.
[14:48] <Hobbsee> launchpad doesnt deal with big numbers, and dialogs that are mandatory to continue should *not* be marked (optional)
[14:49] <soren> Hobbsee: ...so the issue is a production vs. testing repo?
[14:49] <soren> Hobbsee: Why should that only apply for team ppa's?
[14:49] <Hobbsee> soren: yeah.  figured out the way around it, though
[14:49] <Hobbsee> well, users too if they want it, i guess
[14:50] <soren> Yes?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> register another team, make the first team members of it.
[14:50] <Hobbsee> make the admin the same.  no more problem.
[14:50] <soren> Ngh..
[14:51] <soren> Well, yes. That... works.
[14:51] <Hobbsee> except that the address of it is already published, and it relies on someone copying over a whole bunch of stuff
[14:51] <Hobbsee> well, this is true.  it's a bad and nasty workaround, but it works.
[14:53] <Hobbsee> soren: i never said it was elegant :)
[14:53] <soren> Indeed you didn't :)
[15:00] <gmb> Meeting time?
[15:02] <barry> welcome everybody to this week's ameu launchpad code reviewer's meeting
[15:02] <flacoste> hi barry!
[15:02] <sinzui> me, before keyboard locks me out
[15:02] <barry> who's here to day?
[15:02] <gmb> me
[15:02] <bac> me
[15:03] <intellectronica> me
[15:03] <flacoste> me
[15:03] <barry> mwhudson sends his apologies
[15:04] <barry> ddaa: ping?
[15:04] <bac> statik is still on holiday
[15:04] <intellectronica> BjornT is on holiday, afaik
[15:04] <barry> == Agenda ==
[15:04] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:04] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:04] <barry>  * Action items
[15:04] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:04] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:04] <barry>  * Review process changes
[15:04] <ddaa> pong
[15:04] <barry>    * On-call reviewer (sole responsibility?)
[15:04] <barry>    * 1-2 day branches
[15:04] <barry>    * 24h reviews
[15:04] <barry>    * Cover letter
[15:04] <barry>    * Death to [trivial] (non-reviewers can review?)
[15:04] <barry>    * Partial reviews
[15:04] <barry> salgado-lunch: ping?
[15:05] <barry> SteveA_: ping
[15:05] <barry> oh actually, i think SteveA_ is away
[15:05] <ddaa> me
[15:05] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:05] <barry> same time and place?  anybody know they will not be able to make it?
[15:06] <barry> cool
[15:06] <barry>  * Action items
[15:06] <barry> both are jml's and i think he's away so we'll skip those
[15:06] <barry> i removed a few action items that i think are overtaken by other events (e.g. the reviewer tool mwhudson and gmb are working on)
[15:07] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:07] <barry> it looks pretty good to me
[15:07] <barry> stub and SteveA_ win the stale branch awards for today :)
[15:08] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:08] <barry> anything new to discuss here?
[15:08] <barry> 5
[15:08] <barry> 4
[15:08] <barry> 3
[15:08] <barry> 2
[15:08] <barry> 1
[15:08] <barry>  * Review process changes
[15:09] <barry> so i've read through the thread so far and i think a couple of things are emerging
[15:09] <barry> there seems to be consensus about having on-call reviewers, but not banning them from coding on review days
[15:09] <barry> does anybody /not/ like this idea?
[15:09] <flacoste> no
[15:10]  * barry encourages everyone to pick a slot, first come first serve: https://launchpad.canonical.com/OnCallReviewers
[15:10] <flacoste> i think coding is fine, and the on-call reviewer will be responsible to shelve his coding activity as soon as review duty
[15:10] <flacoste> is needed
[15:11] <barry> flacoste: yep, let's try that. i'll update that wiki page after this meeting
[15:11] <barry> hopefully we can get good timezone coverage, and i'll pass this on to AsiaPac
[15:11] <barry>    * 1-2 day branches
[15:12] <barry> the feedback so far seemed to think this should be a goal but not a requirement
[15:12] <barry> any comments?
[15:12] <barry> ok
[15:12] <flacoste> i have
[15:12] <barry> flacoste: the floor is yours
[15:13] <flacoste> this is something which is really a development process issue
[15:13] <flacoste> not a review process issue
[15:13] <flacoste> altough it does have an impact on the review process
[15:13] <flacoste> but still, i don't think it should be part of the review process improvement discussion
[15:14] <barry> flacoste: fair enough.  i think the artifact of such branches that reviewers see is the branch size.  i can't say for sure, but my intuition is that 1-2 day branches will be far below the 2k size limit
[15:14] <barry> for the most part
[15:14] <flacoste> right
[15:14] <flacoste> so, from the review process
[15:14] <flacoste> what we should say is: lower branch size
[15:14] <flacoste> if you want to get a review larger than 1k
[15:15] <flacoste> you have to take special arrangement with a reviewer first
[15:15] <flacoste> no, automatic allocation, etc.
[15:15] <flacoste> or even 800k
[15:15] <flacoste> 800 lines i mean
[15:15] <flacoste> so reviewers can expect a regular flow
[15:15] <flacoste> and interruption in that flow have to be negotiated
[15:15] <flacoste> so no surprise of coming one morning and having 2k lines to review
[15:16] <bac> francis has a good point.  reviewers don't care how long a branch was crafted, just the resulting size.
[15:16] <barry> flacoste, bac i completely agree
[15:16] <flacoste> ok, i'll reply to the thread with the above argument
[15:16] <flacoste> and suggests a new improvement
[15:16] <barry> we already have that policy, but the limit is 2k lines.  i'm all in favor of lowering that limit
[15:16]  * flacoste has an action item and is done
[15:17] <barry> flacoste: thanks!
[15:17] <barry>    * Cover letter
[15:17] <flacoste> i would suggest 800 lines
[15:17] <barry> flacoste: sure. include that in your email
[15:17] <barry> i think there's no disagreement that a cover letter should now be required.  right?
[15:18] <gmb> +1
[15:18] <barry> we'll eventually get tool support for this, but for now i don't much care how it's done.  someone pastebin'd me a cover letter and that worked fine
[15:18] <gmb> (As much from a developer POV as a reviewer one).
[15:19]  * barry can't wait for gmb and mwhudson 's tool :)
[15:19] <barry>    * Death to [trivial] (non-reviewers can review?)
[15:19] <barry> there's a bit of controversy around this one, but i'm still in favor of it
[15:19] <barry> i really liked bigjools-afk 's suggestion that non-reviewers can get involved in eyeballing trivial changes
[15:19] <barry> any thoughts on that?
[15:20] <flacoste> i agree
[15:20]  * bigjools is not really afk :)
[15:20] <barry> howdy bigjools !
[15:20] <bigjools> hey :)
[15:20] <sinzui> I think that is a good way to get everyone involoved
[15:20] <gmb> +1 on that, too.
[15:20] <bac> +1 on bigjools' suggestion
[15:21]  * bigjools feels the love
[15:21] <barry> with the caveat that if the changes really don't appear trivial, kick it back into the normal review process
[15:21] <ddaa> -1 on bigjools'
[15:21] <barry> ddaa: but bigjools is such a likeable guy!
[15:21] <ddaa> one of the things the reviewers are responsible for is keeping the longish reviewchecklist and coding style guide in mind
[15:22] <ddaa> In my experience, trivial changes (and changes done after merge-conditional) are easy avenues for things that would not go past a trained reviewer
[15:23] <bigjools> it depends on how you define trivial
[15:23] <flacoste> ddaa has a point
[15:23] <ddaa> silly things like column wrapping, make lint, etc.
[15:23] <ddaa> or missing tests
[15:23] <flacoste> missing test isn't really trivial
[15:23] <bigjools> anything requiring a test is not trivial
[15:23] <ddaa> right, that was not a good point to make here
[15:24] <barry> so for this to work, we need a narrow and precise definition of what trivial is
[15:24] <ddaa> I'm all in favor of growing the review team as fast as possible, but I do not feel comfortable about this "anybody can review trivial" idea.
[15:24] <barry> ddaa: would it be enough to say trivial changes can only happen in comments and docstrings?
[15:25] <ddaa> is there a lot of those? There's still a risk there: getting comments that contradicts the code is bad
[15:26] <ddaa> but I guess a code should always know better than a reviewer about this sort of issue
[15:26] <ddaa> So: Is there a lot of those, worthy of this exception?
[15:26]  * ddaa apologize for his habit of thinking aloud
[15:27] <barry> ddaa: i don't know
[15:27] <intellectronica> how about formatting?
[15:27] <flacoste> trivial is used for many non-trivial things
[15:27] <flacoste> that's the problem we are trying to address
[15:27] <flacoste> i would argue that more than 50% of trivial aren't trivial at all
[15:28] <flacoste> and that trivial formatting/style/narrative/cleanup are the minority
[15:28] <flacoste> we could gather data about this
[15:28] <ddaa> flacoste: right, in the end either we forbid trivial, or we need some post-landing review to ensure that trivial is used properly.
[15:28] <flacoste> let's sample the last month of trivial landing
[15:28] <intellectronica> i think the definition is pretty clear - a trivial branch doesn't change the behaviour of the application at all
[15:28] <bigjools> the point of the second set of eyeballs is that they knock it back if it's not really trivial
[15:28] <flacoste> intellectronica: well, that's already the case
[15:28] <flacoste> the problem is that this definition isn't respected
[15:29] <flacoste> so ddaa is right: forbid it or post-review each one fo them
[15:29] <barry> flacoste: can we reasonably expect non-reviewers to know when something is not trivial?
[15:29] <flacoste> we had a process about the former
[15:29] <flacoste> but we haven't kept with it
[15:29] <ddaa> barry: experience shows we can't
[15:29] <salgado> in the last 30 days we had 30 trivial landings out of 131 landings in total, ftr
[15:29] <flacoste> i say death to trivial
[15:29] <flacoste> salgado: and how much of those were trivial by the current definitions
[15:30]  * sinzui made excellent use of trivial
[15:30] <flacoste> all of stubs aren't :-)
[15:30] <flacoste> sinzui is exceptional :-!
[15:31] <barry> the flip side is whether on-call reviewers make death to trivial (alone) manageable
[15:31] <bigjools> I would like to point out that death to trivial makes it less likely that people will feel inclined to fix trivial issues
[15:31] <ddaa> death to trivial + on-call reviewers +1
[15:32] <intellectronica> my concern is that in many cases this will either discourage people from making trivial changes or slow people down while they try to sort out a review (even if it's easy), before starting on the 'real' branch
[15:32] <salgado> flacoste, that's not very easy to find out.  I'll be able to tell in a few minutes
[15:32] <barry> bigjools: maybe the opposite though.  if you could make a trivial change, get an approval over irc in 5 minutes, and land it in 10, it might be okay
[15:32] <gmb> Won't on-call reviewers help to make death-to-trivial easier to swallow though?
[15:32] <flacoste> i think the discouraging idea is bogus
[15:32] <bigjools> barry: that's more effort than it is right now though
[15:32] <flacoste> let's see some real data before hand
[15:33] <bigjools> but I would suggest killing it for now and see how it goes
[15:33] <ddaa> Personally, I find that "making a new branch, and getting it through pqm" is the dominating overhead for trivial fixes.
[15:33] <bigjools> thxbye
[15:33] <flacoste> intellectronica: there is no need to wait before starting the real change
[15:33] <barry> meta-point: i think this idea clearly needs more baking and data.  let's move it back to the mailing list
[15:33] <flacoste> i mean just merge it in your new one
[15:34] <barry> salgado: if you could spend a few minutes gathering some data and post it to the list, that would be great
[15:34] <intellectronica> flacoste: i suppose you're right, you can always depend on the trivial branch
[15:34] <flacoste> you can merge again later
[15:34] <sinzui> I do a trivial commit for almost every assigned task I have to keep my diff smaller.
[15:34] <barry> ddaa: maybe you could follow up to that thread with your concerns
[15:34] <intellectronica> fair enough, maybe losing trivial is not so bad after all
[15:34] <ddaa> barry: I'm hopelessly behind the lp ML. Anyway, my point is nothing new.
[15:35] <sinzui> Regardless of what it is called, the 'trivial' branches will continue because of the need to keep branches focused.
[15:35] <ddaa> barry: agreed, empirical data can help sort it out.
[15:35] <barry> ddaa: k
[15:35] <ddaa> Let's move on.
[15:35] <barry> agreed
[15:35] <barry>    * Partial reviews
[15:35] <barry> there seems to be some support for this, but also reservations
[15:36] <barry> really, i think it's mostly to get into the 24h sla
[15:36] <barry> the idea being that /some/ response within 24h is better than silence
[15:36] <barry> thoughts?
[15:36]  * ddaa raises hand
[15:37] <barry> ddaa: go ahead
[15:37] <ddaa> Did only a couple of reviews so far
[15:37] <gmb> Again, from a developer standpoint as much as owt else I'm +1
[15:37] <ddaa> but I found that sometimes issues raised at the start of the review are resolved by the reviewer itself later in the review.
[15:38] <ddaa> partial reviews risk causing needless discussion about things that the reviewer would have resolved himself by finishing the review.
[15:38] <ddaa> Whether this risk is worth discarding the benefit of faster response time, I do not know.
[15:38] <barry> ddaa: this can sometimes happen, yes.  another thing that can happen is that systemic problems become more apparent later in the review
[15:39] <gmb> I think that partial reviews are good in circumstances where events beyond the reviewer's control prevent them from completing the review.
[15:39] <gmb> Such as conflicts in a branch.
[15:39] <ddaa> barry: "new problems found later" is not an issue for partial reviews. What's an issue is "non-issues that cause needless discussion".
[15:40] <flacoste> i think that partial reviews should be exceptional
[15:40] <flacoste> if we have many partial reviews, something else is broken in our process
[15:40] <flacoste> so i think that partial reviews are fine
[15:40] <barry> flacoste: i agree
[15:40] <intellectronica> i think it would be best to limit this to cases where the review can't continue for some reason - conflicts, timing, dependencies, etc'...
[15:40] <flacoste> but we should monitor how many we do
[15:40] <ddaa> flacoste+1
[15:40] <barry> small branches should make this rare
[15:40] <flacoste> and raise an alert if we have many of them
[15:41] <ddaa> partial reviews is a better way to degrade than late reviews
[15:41] <barry> flacoste: do we need a way to flag partial reviews, e.g. in the subject heading, review status, wiki page?
[15:41] <flacoste> that would make it easier to track
[15:41] <flacoste> so that's a good idea
[15:41] <flacoste> PARTIAL REVIEW:
[15:41] <flacoste> insted of REVIEW:
[15:41] <ddaa> I vote for adopting partial reviews as a degraded mode of operation.
[15:41] <flacoste> we can then easily count how many PARTIAL REVIEWS were done in a cycle
[15:41] <barry> yeah, that would be easy to add to utilities/review :)
[15:42] <intellectronica> the problem with the title is that if you read your mail in threads your review material will end up in two threads
[15:42] <intellectronica> i really like having the complete story in one thread when finalizing a branch
[15:43] <barry> intellectronica: yeah, the review script doesn't help here.  you'd have to do the follow up in response to the original message
[15:43] <ddaa> intellectronica: That's okay I think. The important point is "partial review is not the normal mode of operation".
[15:44] <barry> yep. okay, i'll write this up.  is there anything else on this topic?
[15:44] <barry> 5
[15:44] <barry> 4
[15:44] <barry> 3
[15:44] <barry> 2
[15:44] <barry> 1
[15:44] <flacoste> intellectronica: that's what threading should be done based on Reference header,not subject :-)
[15:44] <barry> cool that's it for me.  raise your hand if you have anything not on the agenda
[15:45] <ddaa> flacoste: the "review.py" script does not know how to set this header :)
[15:45] <barry> 5
[15:45] <barry> 4
[15:45] <barry> 3
[15:45] <barry> 2
[15:45] <flacoste> well, the initial message doesn't need one
[15:45] <flacoste> and you can't use that script for follow-up?
[15:45] <barry> 1
[15:45] <barry> flacoste: not currently
[15:45] <barry> MEETING ENDS
[15:46] <barry> (and on time this week :)
[15:46] <barry> thanks everybody!
[15:46] <bac> thx barry
[16:33] <eaqua> hello, can anyone tell me how to use the launchpad translation service with java .properties files ? I remember trying converting the .properties files to .pot (there's an option with gettext) and I submitted a tar that was rejected (as I never saw a result)
[16:37] <carlos> eaqua: hi, for which project did you upload it?
[16:37] <eaqua> carlos: netbeans
[16:39] <carlos> eaqua: hmm I don't see any rejection nor pending file to be imported for it
[16:39] <eaqua> carlos: https://translations.launchpad.net/netbeans
[16:39] <carlos> eaqua: where did you submitted that tarball ?
[16:39] <eaqua> carlos: well, I had a tar in there ages ago, sat in the queue a lot then I forgot about it. never got some email of rejection or something.
[16:41] <carlos> did you change the entries status to 'Delete' or something like that?
[16:41] <eaqua> carlos: I uploaded it in my project page. The interface was a bit different back then(15th March or so). but I do remember the queue having tons of pending files to aprove.
[16:41] <eaqua> carlos: no, i didn't change to delete.
[16:42] <carlos> hmm, then the only chance is that, for some reason, we rejected it... let me try to see whether I see anything in my outbox...
[16:43] <eaqua> carlos: it was a big tar with lots of .pot files converted from .properties with msginit. maybe the format was wrong or something.
[16:43] <carlos> it's a manual process to accept/reject the initial upload so we should give you an answer...
[16:44] <carlos> found it (I think)
[16:44] <carlos> eaqua: I rejected it and sent you an email
[16:45] <carlos> eaqua: I rejected it because at that time, the project said that it was 'Romanian Translation of NetBeans IDE'
[16:45] <eaqua> carlos: yes, that's what I was planning to use it for.
[16:45] <carlos> and that's against our policy
[16:45] <carlos> let me resend you the email
[16:45] <eaqua> carlos: I didn't want to start an official netbeans project on launchpad
[16:46] <eaqua> carlos: aha, I was just trying to use the translation service, nothing else.
[16:46] <eaqua> carlos: you need a full package so to speak :)
[16:46] <carlos> eaqua: well, the problem is that we don't have yet a way to restrict a project translation to a single team
[16:47] <carlos> so that will produce that other language translators start translating netbeans too in Launchpad
[16:47] <carlos> but those translations will be completely wasted and never used
[16:47] <eaqua> carlos: makes sense. so was the tar file ok. that is, may I re-create the tar and re-submit it ?
[16:48] <carlos> well, I didn't see anything wrong with the tarball itself, but what you want to do is still against our policy, unless you get the approval of netbeans developers to use Launchpad for translations and you or any of the core developer team agreed on update those .pot file and .po files from time to time
[16:48] <eaqua> carlos: do I need to guarantee somehow that any translation will go upstream ?
[16:48] <carlos> in both ways
[16:49] <carlos> either update Launchpad with any update done in their source tree or update their tree with any update done in Launchpad
[16:49] <carlos> eaqua: yeah
[16:50] <carlos> eaqua: we have more details in our policy page (you have it in the email I forwarded to you)
[16:50] <carlos> well, you have it here too, just in case you don't get the email: https://help.launchpad.net/TranslationsImportPolicy
[16:50] <eaqua> carlos: hm, this is almost impossible. if my team will show launchpad is usable others might join, but right now people are using desktop-only tools with local files. it would be kinda hard to convince a full migration to launchpad.
[16:51] <carlos> eaqua: you don't really need a full migration, although the offline use case also work from Launchpad because they could download / upload the files in Launchpad
[16:51] <carlos> eaqua: we only require that the developers are aware of that Launchpad usage and that someone take care of the sync in both ways
[16:52] <carlos> if they use Launchpad directly, the sync only needs to be done for the .pot files and they will get all translations from time to time from Launchpad, but that's not a must
[16:54] <eaqua> carlos: well, i don't get it. so I will upload the .pot files and start translating in my language. the upstream owners will know about this. I will also notify other teams about this in case some "unaproved" translations in other languages start but it will be their job to use that if they want. where exactly am I breaking the launchpad policy ?
[16:55] <carlos> eaqua: will you upload any other existing translation for other languages?
[16:55] <carlos> if you don't do that, and there is, for instance a full one for Spanish, someone would start another one in Launchpad
[16:55] <carlos> and that's one of the things we want to avoid
[16:56] <carlos> when you send your translations to netbeans developers, will you include any other update for other languages in Launchpad?
[16:56] <eaqua> well, right now the project isn't call "romanian" anymore. so in theory people would just need to upload the spanish .po files.
[16:56] <carlos> if you don't do that we have again some lose efforts
[16:57] <carlos> so what we require is that someone takes the responsibility of preventing this to happen and to do the sync
[16:57] <eaqua> it's a cyclic problem: obviously not all teams want/need to use launchpad. but due to the launchpad policy nobody is allowed ?
[16:57] <eaqua> i can upload the .po files for other languages from time to time. but they won't be used.
[16:58] <carlos> why they will not be used?
[16:58] <eaqua> and the upstream teams for other languages will probably disregard the input unless it's massive (many contributions).
[16:58] <eaqua> well, no spanish translator will use launchpad that is.
[16:58] <eaqua> as they have their own mailing list and own little set of tools, etc.
[16:59] <carlos> you mean from current Spanish translation team for netbeans I guess
[16:59] <carlos> ok
[16:59] <eaqua> yes, as an example.
[16:59] <carlos> what about new languages not available in netbeans?
[16:59] <eaqua> oh, I'm fine with that.
[16:59] <carlos> will you send those translations?
[16:59] <eaqua> of course, I can do that, or other people will take charge of their own (native) language.
[17:00] <carlos> sure, if you delegate that to someone else
[17:00] <carlos> that's fine
[17:00] <carlos> as long as those translations are not stalled in Launchpad
[17:00] <eaqua> i see.
[17:00] <carlos> ok, so I guess the best solution for this is
[17:01] <carlos> hmm, let me check something first
[17:01] <carlos> and I will be back with a proposal
[17:03] <eaqua> the point is this would be a way to "pitch" launchpad (as well to see if it's useful). I don't see a point in submitting the existing translations as these have existing teams in place and people will be just confused seing stuff in launchpad. but for new teams it's good start to see the "popular" demand. in the end maybe the existing ones will migrate too.
[17:08] <carlos> eaqua: well, if you import everything each time you sync the templates, it helps them to see how it works for them and even to get new contributors for their language
[17:09] <eaqua> can I put a message saying that language X has a separate mailing list and that they might want to join that before submitting to launchpad ? (as the X team doesn't actually us launchpad ?)
[17:14] <eaqua> s/us/use/
[17:14] <carlos> eaqua: yes
[17:14] <carlos> I just discussed this with danilos, another Launchpad Translations admin
[17:14] <carlos> and we agreed that we could setup a Translation group for netbeans
[17:15] <carlos> where we will add a team per existing language that will block it for translation changes
[17:15] <eaqua> read-only basically ?
[17:15] <carlos> yeah
[17:15] <carlos> anyone will still be able to add suggestions
[17:15] <carlos> but will not be approved, it's not ideal, but not so bad...
[17:16] <carlos> in those teams, you could add such warning
[17:16] <eaqua> great. so I just have to re-create the .pot from the .properties files in english and upload them. this will bootstrap the other languages read-write.
[17:16] <carlos> and when other team decides to start using Launchpad is a matter of give them the ownership of that team and they will get access to do translations just like you will be doing since first day
[17:16] <eaqua> I'll also upload at some point the current languages, but these will be read-only.
[17:17] <carlos> eaqua: well, we still want to get all existing languages imported, even if they are not edited in launchpad
[17:17] <carlos> sure
[17:17] <carlos> right
[17:18] <carlos> then you only need to care about your languages and other new languages appearing due to the use of Launchpad (it's an effect we have seen before, once it's available in Launchpad, you get new translations without even ask for them :-P
[17:18] <carlos> eaqua: also, we would like to give you the control of the netbeans translation group so you can add there new teams to block when they appear in netbeans
[17:18] <eaqua> do you know of some other Java-based tool that uses rosetta? I'm not certain msginit is enough as I haven't used .pot / .po files that much (I see them as an intermediary form or .properties :) ).
[17:19] <carlos> or give them the control of that language to the official teams if they decide to move to Launchpad
[17:19] <carlos> eaqua: not that I'm aware of... are those .pot files using IDs instead of English strings ?
[17:20] <eaqua> sounds good. let me first import something so I have a demo for them. then I'll tell the other teams I'll also import their stuff. I don't want to step on any toes there.
[17:20] <carlos> eaqua: we added something for Firefox support that improves that situation, although is not yet ready for .po file to be used...
[17:20] <carlos> so you have:
[17:20] <carlos> msgid "foo-id"
[17:20] <eaqua> carlos: no, .properties are key=value, where key=english string. these are transformed into .po by msginit.
[17:21] <carlos> msgstr "lalala"
[17:21] <carlos> so to see the English string you need something like en.po to compare
[17:22] <carlos> that's not going to be easy neither with Launchpad or any other .po editor
[17:22] <carlos> eaqua: although we plan to add something to deal with that soon
[17:22] <carlos> maybe you prefer to wait until then...
[17:22] <eaqua> how soon ? should I just wait ?
[17:23] <carlos> anyway, whatever you do now, will be compatible with our final 'fix'
[17:23] <carlos> so no need to do any reimport or migration
[17:23] <carlos> eaqua: I don't know, we don't have it scheduled yet
[17:24] <carlos> but seems like we will need it too for Ubuntu mobile, so maybe, in next 4-5 months, but don't take that as a promise, as said, we didn't schedule it yet
[17:24] <eaqua> ok, I'll just start importing things and will see in the future how we migrate.
[17:24] <carlos> ok
[17:24] <eaqua> does rosetta have support to translate whole .html files for example ?
[17:25] <carlos> eaqua: not in a native way
[17:25] <eaqua> or should I create a fake .po with a really long string.
[17:25] <carlos> you can use other tools to get a .pot file though
[17:26] <carlos> eaqua: if it's an xhtml file you can use xml2po -m html
[17:27] <carlos> eaqua: I need to leave right now
[17:27] <eaqua> ok, it seems I'll also have to create some scripts.
[17:27] <eaqua> thanks for the help.
[17:27] <carlos> you are welcome
[17:30] <xenru> Hi there
[17:30] <xenru> I'm adding new project to launchpad
[17:30] <xenru> and want to add translations
[17:31] <xenru> but I can't find how to do it
[17:31] <xenru> can you help me?
[18:13] <towolf> hi,for joining beta-testers, do i poke someone, or just wait?
[18:18] <stdin> could send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:19] <mwhudson> towolf: mrevell is the man you need to get the attention of
[18:19] <mwhudson> he works uk time
[18:19] <towolf> mwhudson: thanks
[21:13] <mpt_> LongPointyStick, +emails
[21:16] <mpt> carlos, is language-by-language use of Translations (as desired for NetBeans) filed as something that needs implementing? Should it be?
[21:18] <carlos> mpt: yeah, Danilo raised that feature a while ago
[21:18] <carlos> to link pofiles or potemplates with persons or teams
[21:18] <carlos> instead of products or sourcepackages
[21:29] <mpt> carlos, I mean, does it have a bug number or a blueprint
[21:29] <carlos> hmm, not sure, let me check
[21:33] <carlos> mpt: no I think we don't have any bug or blueprint for it
[21:35] <mpt> ok, I shall report it
[21:39] <carlos> mpt: sure, thanks
[21:52] <mpt> carlos, eaqua: reported as bug 164420
[21:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164420 in rosetta "Let projects choose which languages are translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164420
[21:54] <carlos> mpt: ok, thanks
[22:00] <ubotu> New bug: #164420 in rosetta "Let projects choose which languages are translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164420
[22:16] <mpt> hmm,
[22:17] <mpt> Quite often (about once a week, perhaps) someone asks a question about using Launchpad Translations with a particular language
[22:18] <mpt> And they mark the question as being in that language, when it's not, it's in English
[22:20] <mpt> Probably not knowing English very well makes it hard for them to understand the meaning of the language choice
[22:26] <emilian> ok, anyone here I can harass with questions regarding .pot and po files ?
[22:26] <mpt> emilian, carlos or danilos
[22:26] <emilian> my limited knowledge tells me the pot are the templates while the po are the translated files.
[22:26] <emilian> with msginit -i $file -P I can convert java .properties files to .po files.
[22:27] <emilian> are the .pot files any different ? can I just rename .po to .pot ?
[22:27] <carlos> emilian: you are right about what's a template and a translation file
[22:27] <carlos> pot is a po without translations
[22:27] <carlos> in theory, you could rename a .po file as .pot
[22:27] <emilian> but as I start with .properties files I basically have a translations - english.
[22:27] <carlos> but why do you want to do it?
[22:28] <emilian> well, I'm not sure if a .po is enough to get translations working for other languages.
[22:28] <emilian> I assumed you need a .pot for that.
[22:28] <carlos> the  problem with properties files
[22:28] <emilian> does rosetta take the keys from .po files and expose them to any translator regardless of the language ?
[22:29] <carlos> is that they use an id instead of an English string...
[22:29] <carlos> ok, so I just realised what you mean
[22:29] <carlos> yeah
[22:29] <carlos> we plan to add a feature
[22:29] <emilian> oh, alrighty then, I guess I'm set :)
[22:29] <carlos> to use en.po or en_US.po or en_GB.po as the base of strings to show to the users
[22:29] <carlos> so they know what to translate
[22:30] <emilian> i just generated and uploaded a whole bunch of en.po files.
[22:30] <emilian> do I need to re-upload those as ro.po files for example ?
[22:30] <emilian> (since you see you're just planning this feature).
[22:31] <carlos> well, you need an empty .po file as the .pot file
[22:31] <carlos> if en.po has English strings, you shouldn't rename it as ro.po
[22:32] <emilian> so I need to write some script to clean the en.po file in order to bootstrap any other language ? (ie. make the .pot)
[22:32] <carlos> emilian: there is a gettext command for that already
[22:33] <carlos> danilos: do you remember the command to do it?
[22:34] <danilos> emilian: you can try playing with msgattrib, msgmerge, and msgfilter
[22:34] <danilos> emilian: though, for generating POT file, you should use xgettext instead
[22:35] <emilian> xgettext seems to extract strings from source files (?). I already have the strings in java .properties files.
[22:41] <ubotu> New bug: #164424 in launchpad-answers "Confusing for "Project:" to have "Distribution" and "Project" choices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164424
[23:02] <emilian> it seems msgfilter can produce a barebone po which kinda looks like a pot (empty translation strings - ""). I've submitted everything. Let's see how rosetta feels about the files...
[23:04] <emilian> carlos: if you aren't busy and have the appropriate privileges could you take a look here ( https://translations.launchpad.net/netbeans/+imports ) and approve / reject the uploads. I would like to see the results before I go to sleep :O
[23:12] <carlos> emilian: sorry, those are a lot of files to approve and is past midnight here..
[23:12] <emilian> carlos: dang, 1:12 am here :( oh well, I'll check again next week.
[23:13] <carlos> emilian: you will get email notifications with each import
[23:14] <emilian> heh, hope they don't end up in the spam again :) thanks for your help and good night !
[23:15] <carlos> np, good night!
[23:35] <ubotu> New bug: #164430 in soyuz "PPA takes too long to build packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164430


[17:15] <Tribaal> Hey folks, just a quick info: we're putting a "django drinkup" together in Dublin on Saturday
[17:15] <Tribaal> feel free to drop by (even if you don't care about django, it's pretty laid back)
[17:16] <Tribaal> The Long Stone pub, 6pm+
[17:18] <ebel> cool
[17:23] <slashtommy> Tribaal: the following Saturday is the 3rd birthday of Tog - the Dublin Hackerspace
[17:24] <ebel> Tis open to the public, everyone can come. should be bit of a party.
[17:37] <Tribaal> awesome :)


[02:07] <jjesse> hello Admiral_Chicago_
[07:37] <Admiral_Chicago> hiya jjesse, how is everything
[16:49] <alefteris> I'm translating the browser start page. I notised that some index files use only the language code extension, while some others use the the language_country extension. which one should I use for greek? el or el_GR?
[16:52] <alefteris> i need this info in advance so that i can put the apropriate links to the index file in the ubufox locale, thanks
[17:02] <alefteris> the bug report for the greek firefox page is bug #210878 thanks
[17:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210878 in ubuntu-docs "Browser start page localized for Greek" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210878
[17:06] <ubotu> New bug: #210878 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Browser start page localized for Greek" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210878


[00:26] <raevol> jammin in san diego
[00:26] <Ttech> I'm there... D:
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> San Diego style.
[00:29] <philipballew> gonna be fun!!!!
[01:03] <raevol> attempt #2
[01:10] <raevol> torrenting 11.10 install iso, hope the cafe doesn't mind :3
[01:11] <raevol> hey philipballew lololol
[02:15] <bkerensa> Global Jam was a success
[02:15] <bkerensa> :D
[02:18] <akk> yay!
[02:26] <akk> Was it arranged around doing a specific thing, or more general?
[02:26]  * akk hasn't made it to a jam yet, but the ones around here usually seem to have specific topics/goals
[02:41] <raevol> more general, we actually mostly just chatted about things
[02:47] <akk> That's probably better, then you don't have people not coming because the theme doesn't sound interesting.
[02:50] <raevol> for the first loco thing san diego has done in a while, we had a decent turnout
[04:30] <philipballew> has anyone here seen a cheep domain registry company?
[04:31] <bkerensa> akk: We had planned on doing bug triaging and documentation but in the end people ran late and our venue was reserved for only two hours so basically we gave some overviews on contributing and how to do such and get involved and did a brief q+a on contributing
[04:31] <bkerensa> akk: I wish we had more time to actually do some contributions but I guess it was like a Intro to Contributing to Ubuntu/ Social Event
[04:32] <philipballew> bkerensa, thats exactly what happened here
[04:32] <bkerensa> next year if I'm still team lead then I will plan to start the event much earlier say 9am or 10am and then run it all afternoon so we can actually do some triaging and doc work like I had planned
[04:32] <akk> It's actualy really hard to do anything useful at a group social thing like that.
[04:33] <akk> I've been to a bunch of mapping parties (openstreetmap) and they always get bogged down before the point of anybody actually checking in any map changes
[04:33] <akk> though the "go out and walk around with GPSes" part works well.
[04:34] <bkerensa> akk: Yeah but the good thing is we got a lot of new people who work at tech companies whether it was women or teachers to come and now we drew more interest in the LoCo and in Ubuntu and I got to talk with some teachers and told them about my idea for getting ubuntu pc's into classrooms so it was an excellent advocacy event and lots of info was given
[04:34] <akk> Events always seem to get bogged down with stuff like "oops, the wifi keeps disconnecting" and "oh, wait, I thought I had that installed on my laptop, we all need to install this package first"
[04:35] <philipballew> a local mirrior helps
[04:35] <akk> If you had your own router to set up a local net, and then one of the laptops was a mirror, that would help a lot
[04:35] <akk> though sneakernet with usb sticks often works well.
[04:36] <akk> I've been to many an event that was saved by passing around three or four USB sticks until everybody had a copy.
[04:36] <bkerensa> akk: We did get a few people to try Oneirc
[04:36] <bkerensa> Oneiric*
[04:37] <philipballew> its already pretty stable
[04:37] <bkerensa> We had Wifi since we were in a corporate office
[04:38] <philipballew> how many were there?
[04:41] <akk> Events are always in a place that "has wifi", but having it actually work and continue to work throughout the event is much more rare. :)
[04:42] <philipballew> they should use ddwrt
[04:42] <philipballew> that stuff's awesome
[04:55] <bkerensa> how many what?
[04:56] <bkerensa> I think we had over 15 people but a lot of people ended up not making it due to labor day and also probably from some extracurricular activity on Friday :P
[05:00] <philipballew> more then we had. awesome!!!
[05:45] <bkerensa> Video from our Global Jam: http://youtu.be/acLkfmecTTs
[19:49] <grantbow> http://www.dreamfish.com/pg/gblog/read/25008/Linux-Fundamentals comments welcome
[19:53] <DarkwingDuck> grantbow, will take a look in a minute.
[19:53] <Ttech> Linux Fundimential?
[19:54] <philipballew> Nice!
[19:56] <grantbow> some context - this is written for a community that philosophically very much agrees with open source but has limited skills to help one another yet.
[19:56] <grantbow> When I get to Nairobi, Kenya this week I hope to help them install alot of Ubuntu.
[19:56] <grantbow> and a Debian server as a prototype since that's what dreamfish.com runs
[19:57] <grantbow> s/prototype/staging server/
[20:01] <grantbow> actually that's not totally true. They are having an open source sprint on Sept 11, same day as Solano Stroll in Berkeley.
[20:01] <grantbow> http://www.dreamfish.com/pg/gblog/read/24972/Dreamfish-Hack-a-day
[20:12] <philipballew> would someone who is more knowledgeable then me (that means anyone here) review my wiki sometime and just get back to me with what you see wrong https://wiki.ubuntu.com/philipballew
[20:13] <philipballew> ill get to the spelling errors sometime soon
[20:13] <rww> forUm >.>
[20:14] <rww> apart from that, I don't have a wikipage, so... *wanders off*
[20:18] <philipballew> i like the emoticon there
[22:33] <philipballew> does this seem like a good deal ?
[22:34] <philipballew> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PNY-GeForce-7300-GS-DDR2-256MB-PCI-E-GRAPHIC-CARD-/130562306027?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item1e661eafeb


[13:19] <cmaloney> morning
[13:50] <Scary_Guy> Hey
[14:02] <cmaloney> how's the day so far?
[14:02] <Scary_Guy> Playing Postal 2, so far so good
[14:04] <cmaloney> Nice
[17:14] <jrwren> HOT
[17:31] <cmaloney> yes, I am


[10:54] <ezrhino> hello. Does anyone here have experience with Ubuntu fonts durring boot?
[23:26] <Gandi> hi, how can i install kali tools on may ubuntu-gnome 13.10?


[10:20] <BrianHechinger[m> OvenWerks: did we ever prove the AudioFire 4 and 12 were different hardware? I can't get the 4 to anywhere near 16/2.
[15:56] <OvenWerks> Iamthehuman12: I have no way of knowing that. I would expect the FW chipset part to be the same, the mixer to be the same but maybe fewer chips, the adc/dac and audio stuff might be different (like the delta 44/66 as compared to the delta 1010 (or the d1010lt) they all used the same base chip but the adc/dac and audio are different qualities
[16:15] <OvenWerks> Iamthehuman12: sorry wrong nick... BrianHechinger[m ^^^
[16:16] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: there is much more to low latency than just the audio device. or even the audio device and the PCIe card it connects to.
[16:17] <OvenWerks> I think we are both using the same kernel as well.
[16:21] <OvenWerks> At the time I put this computer together (I guess it is old now) Audio was my first concern. My previous experiance (P4 days) had shown me that hyperthreading caused trouble below 64/2 (sometimes even at) and so I decided the i5 with 4 cores and 4 threads would be the best chip. no use paying for the i7 and shutting half of it down.
[16:22] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: I think that both hyperthreading has improved and the way linux deals with hyperthread cores has improved, but I have not been able to test that on my i5 :)
[16:27] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: once I had the chip I wanted to use, I went through the motherboards that chip would fit in (that had the right socket). I found that the most expensive ones had a lot of bells and whistles on board and I was concerned that they would use up IRQs or other resources, also the audio card I was using at the time was a set of two PCI (not PCIe) cards and so I wanted maximum number of
[16:27] <OvenWerks> PCI slots. This meant look for a full size board (7slots) and I was able to find one with 3 PCI slots for my two PCI boards
[16:30] <OvenWerks> I found this just below about the middle of the available MBs. Of course one of those PCI slots used the dreaded IRQ16, shared with a number of other things and was not usable. (PCIe is different usng virtual IRQs)
[16:36] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: I have of course tuned the IRQs, made sure my cores always run at one speed, stop cron if need be, etc.
[16:38] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: other than these things I do not know how our systems might differ. If you can at least start jack at 16/2, that would argue for the chipset in the device being the same. If jack will not even start with such a low latency and hangs instead that may be a different matter
[17:16] <BrianHechinger[m> Yeah, the fact that I can't even start jack below like 64/3 or whatever it is really bothers me. I should be able to start at 16/2 even if it's a trainwreck of xruns
[17:17] <BrianHechinger[m> I found with liquorix I could start 16/2 just fine, but that doesn't have threadedirq enabled (it clashes with their choice of scheduler) so I'm still not sure what that proved. Liquorix also had some nasty instabilities on my system so it's been purged.
[17:17] <BrianHechinger[m> I'm mostly just trying to wait for 22.04 at this point because I figure the best time to really rattle trash cans is on an LTS release and not an interim one.
[17:22] <BrianHechinger[m> OvenWerks: The other thing to keep in mind was early hyperthreading was bad. Really bad. to the point where we turned it off on all the servers and got better performance (out of both windows and linux)
[17:59] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: yes I realize early HT was some of the worst. However, even if it is better now, if the core makes a context change at the wrong time, it will affect minimum scheduling. maybe not at 64/2 but getting things down to less than 1ms that is more iffy.
[18:00] <OvenWerks> I think newer kernels are smart enough not allow low priority threads to use the same core though.
[18:09] <BrianHechinger[m> Yeah, that's probably true. An interesting experiment would be to exclude a core from doing any other work and dedicating it to the low priority stuff. But, until i can get Jack starting at all with lower latency it's kinda moot. 😜
[19:15] <Eickmeyer> The 5.15 kernel in Jammy has some nice RT improvements, so keep that in mind.
[21:52] <BrianHechinger[m> Yeah, that's another reason why I'm waiting for 22.04 to start really digging into this again.
[22:01] <OvenWerks> Hmm, I should try running 16/2 then... I had two xruns pretty quick after I started. But it's fine now. DSP is 12 to 15% with youtube running through it.
[22:08] <OvenWerks> hmm I've had better, 20ish xruns in 8 minutes
[22:09] <OvenWerks> Still, I don't need 16/2 and 64/2 runs forever still.


[00:29] <guiverc> A user on telegram said "I created a Telegram channel, where I claimed the username @ubuntunewsletter. If Chris wants, I can give him full control of this channel."   Does anyone think this is worthwhile taking up?  I'm not sure telegram would benefit many (just another place to post...)
[21:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Alan Pope: Team Building via Chess @ https://popey.com/blog/2021/07/team-building-via-chess/
[21:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Colin King: Intel Hardware P-State (HWP) / Intel Speed Shift @ http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ASmackerelOfOpinion/~3/x2MGdAwMQbg/intel-hardware-p-state-hwp-intel-speed.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Colin Ian King))


[02:56] <Brainstorm> 📈 6.1 Mwp tremor, registered by alomax,early,quakenotices, occurred 35 minutes ago (02:21:25 UTC), during daytime, Northeastern India (26.77, 92.36) ± 3 km, ↓13 km likely felt 280 km away (in Guwahati, Nagaon, Mangaldoi, Tezpur, Marigaon…) by 1.2 million people → https://t.co/r8ZIvVIelN (webservices.ingv.it)
[02:56] <u-la-la> [ 2021-04-28 02:21:25 (M6.0) Assam, India 26.8 92.4 (1cbfb) — Seismic Event ] - t.co
[02:58] <LjL> of course, my internet (and Brainstorm's) failed just when there was a big earthquake :(
[03:05] <Brainstorm> 🌏 भूकंप! Earthquake! 4.9 Mb tremor, registered by US, occurred 32 minutes ago (02:33:01 UTC), during daytime, Dhekiajuli, India (26.75, 92.48), ↓35 km likely felt 130 km away (in Nagaon, Guwahati, Mangaldoi, Tezpur, Marigaon…) by 1.2 million people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1604226906 (service.iris.edu)
[03:05] <u-la-la> [ Windy: Wind map & weather forecast ] - www.windy.com
[19:57] <Brainstorm> 🌖 भूकंप? Earthquake? Likely weak tremor, with 28 reports, 4 early, possibly occurred 6 minutes ago (19:51:36 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Rahā, India (26.25, 92.45) ± 49 km likely felt 150 km away (Twitter)
[20:06] <Brainstorm> 🌖 भूकंप! Earthquake! 4.9 Ml tremor, registered by EMSC, occurred 15 minutes ago (19:50:55 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Dhekiajuli, India (26.68, 92.48) ± 4 km, ↓20 km likely felt 130 km away (in Nagaon, Guwahati, Mangaldoi, Tezpur, Marigaon…) by 1.2 million people (www.seismicportal.eu)


 I'm also noticing this lately (re @billy_adam: hello, does anyone else experience occasional lag with kubuntu 22.04?
 like the whole screen will freeze for couple of seconds and then work again, to me this started happening couple days ago and I still don't find any solution, if the lag happen when playing video, the sound will get laggy too, if the lag happens when typing, the button I press when it started lagging will ussually be inputted more than once (typing hello will produce hhhello for example))
 any solution? (re @dchiodi0087: I'm also noticing this lately)
 unfortunately no, I just saw your previous message (re @billy_adam: any solution?)
 I suspect that is something about these last system updates
 i now handle this by running a random game in the background while doing something else, a friend suggest that it might have something to do with hardware accelerarion setting but i havent searched further yet (re @dchiodi0087: unfortunately no, I just saw your previous message)
 it can be, I didn't done any tweak ultimately
 when Im starting having the issue I reboot the system
 that's the only thing i do for now btw
 yours got resolved after reboot? mine doesnt, it onky goes away if im running game (re @dchiodi0087: when Im starting having the issue I reboot the system)
 which kubuntu version?
 yes, but then sometimes it start doing that thing again (re @billy_adam: yours got resolved after reboot? mine doesnt, it onky goes away if im running game)
 LTS like you (re @billy_adam: which kubuntu version?)
 no one else with the same version experience this?
[13:58] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:36] <bunjee> I need help understanding how to get my minimized windows back - have no clue - newbie.
[16:30] <Your_Dog> bunjee: I don't get your problem, your minimized windows should be accessable in the taskbar
[16:30] <Your_Dog> or alt+tab (task switching)
[16:39] <bunjee> your_dog.....thanks I appreciate your help....I noticed a little square in the taskbar - I minimized my Firefox and that was not where it disappeared to. It slid in to the right upper corner.
[18:10] <griffith> Hello every one
 Hello
[19:06] <user|59> Can I get Programs or Applications on cd or dvd disk?
 Hello! I've formatted an ssd and now it wont mount on dolphin. If I sudo krusader I see it; I've written a new partition table on gparted but it wont mount. Any help?
 Hello! I've formatted an ssd that had win10 and now it wont mount on dolphin. If I sudo krusader I see it; I've written a new partition table on gparted but it wont mount. Any help? By the way I have kubuntu on a separate ssd.
[20:09] <user|89> Will the next release of kbuntu use kde plasma6
[21:05] <mparillo> If you mean 24.04, no. Plasma6 is not released yet, and the window is too short, especially for a LTS release. I would look for it in 24.10.
[21:07] <bprompt> ahemm, he kinda left an hour ago :|
 Hi everyone. How do i remove this countdown when powering off : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/c810ff74/file_72465.jpg
[22:26] <bprompt> r_1ot:   well, you can always press Ctrl-Alt-Del to bypass it, sometimes you may have to do it twice fast to stop it , however is just that a daemon/TSR/service is hanging and not closing yet and the system is trying to do a proper close for shutdown, so I usuallty let it run, it never goes above 1:30
[22:27] <bprompt> now and then I have to Ctrl-Alt-Del, but only when I really have to do something or and testing something


[04:16] <astroo-> ciao pessoal
[06:24] <varnie> hello
[06:24] <varnie> could you help me? how would you write "101000" in Portuguese?
[21:53] <astroo-> ola pessoal