[15:06] <infinity> micahg: I assume we're skipping today, due to July 4th and DebConf?
[15:06] <infinity> juliank is bugging me. :P
[15:07]  * rbasak is here
[15:07] <infinity> Doesn't look like quorum.
[15:09] <cyphermox> depends if some of the US people are here
[15:09] <sil2100> o/
[15:10] <sil2100> Wow, just had the biggest IRC lag ever, uh
[15:10] <rbasak> That's four then, if infinity is available?
[15:11] <infinity> I'm sort of here, at DebConf and in and out.
[15:11] <cyphermox> cheese and wine?
[15:12] <infinity> Not yet cheese and wine time. :P
[15:12] <infinity> I, however, only have about 5m of battery left.
[15:12] <cyphermox> well do we have juliank?
[15:13] <juliank> cyphermox: I'm here with infinity trying to find power :D
[15:14] <infinity> I win!  Power!
[15:15] <infinity> So, I see no micah, does that make me the chair?
[15:15] <sil2100> Objection! juliank is obviously trying to manipulate the DMB by influencing infinity in real life!
[15:15] <infinity> HE'S THREATENING ME WITH A PLUSH COW.
[15:15] <sil2100> Probably bribing him with wine and cheese by now
[15:15] <sil2100> !
[15:15] <sil2100> Or worse it seems!
[15:16] <infinity> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting
[15:16] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  4 15:16:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:16] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:16] <infinity> #topic Action review
[15:16] <infinity> cyphermox: Did you do the thing?
[15:16] <cyphermox> if it's just the three of us we don't have quorum
[15:16] <infinity> Someone said 4...
[15:17] <cyphermox> infinity: no. mea culpa, I should do it now
[15:17] <cyphermox> oh, nevermind I had not seen rbasak
[15:17] <infinity> cyphermox: Doing it "now" as in, we can remove it from the agenda, or "nowish", and we should keep it there? :P
[15:18] <cyphermox> keep it there so next time I can have the joy of saying it's done.
[15:18] <rbasak> I still have to poke infinity to do the thing for GunnarHj.
[15:18] <infinity> rbasak: Kay.
[15:18] <infinity> sil2100: Your touch action marked done on the wiki, concur?
[15:19] <infinity> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
[15:19] <infinity> I see no rosco here.  Skipping along.
[15:19] <sil2100> infinity: yes, I cleaned up the wiki and checked the others, so it's done
[15:19] <infinity> #topic MOTU Applications
[15:19] <cyphermox> infinity: rosco wasn't scheduled for today
[15:20] <infinity> cyphermox: Oh, derp.  I no can read.
[15:20] <infinity> So, re: jbicha.  Do we need discussion here?
[15:20] <infinity> Clearly not, as he's a MOTU member.
[15:20] <infinity> So someone reinstated him already.
[15:21]  * infinity zips along.
[15:21] <infinity> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
[15:21] <infinity> juliank: Your turn.
[15:22] <infinity> So, from my POV, juliank needs exactly zero of the silly questions we usually ask, his work speaks for itself.
[15:22] <infinity> My only concern about PPU versus core-dev was if he needed the keys to the kingdom, or a more limited set, but he's expressed interest in generic +1 type work across the distro.
[15:23] <infinity> juliank: Feel free to introduce yourself and make any arguments you'd like to as to why you're a whiz-bang guy.
[15:23] <rbasak> juliank: do you understand the Ubuntu release cycle, freezes, etc?
[15:23]  * ogra_ cheers for juliank
[15:23] <ogra_> *\o/*
[15:23] <ogra_> (pompoms)
[15:23] <ogra_> (no miniskirt though)
[15:23] <juliank> rbasak: Yes, I do understand the release cycle and the freezes. I even aligned the whole APT 1.2 series to it :)
[15:23] <rbasak> OK, that's all from me then. Thanks :)
[15:24] <infinity> ogra_: Thank god.
[15:24] <ogra_> :)
[15:24] <infinity> ogra_: I still have nightmares about your cycling shorts.
[15:24] <ogra_> haha
[15:24] <sil2100> ...wow
[15:24] <ogra_> from paris with love :)
[15:24]  * sil2100 has no questions
[15:24] <infinity> I don't think elmo will ever forget that day either.
[15:25] <ogra_> heh, definitely ... i still hav the pants in case i need to blackmail him one day
[15:25] <infinity> Aaaaaanyway.
[15:26] <infinity> Brain bleach aside, shall we vote, or do people have questions for the super-cow-powered juliank?
[15:26] <mvo> +1 from me
[15:26] <mvo> sorry for being late
[15:26] <infinity> mvo: You don't get a vote.
[15:26] <mvo> I know
[15:26] <ogra_> thats just additional cheering ;)
[15:26] <mvo> I still want to show my support!
[15:26] <mvo> exactly
[15:27] <infinity> mvo: Plus, you abandoned me, so your +1 is a -1.
[15:27]  * mvo hugs infinity
[15:27] <infinity> #startvote Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
[15:27] <infinity> #vote Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
[15:27] <meetingology> Please vote on: Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
[15:27] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:28] <infinity> +1
[15:28] <meetingology> +1 received from infinity
[15:28] <rbasak> +1
[15:28] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[15:28] <sil2100> +1
[15:28] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[15:28] <infinity> cyphermox: ?
[15:28] <cyphermox> wooa, difficult decisions
[15:28] <cyphermox> +1
[15:28] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[15:28] <infinity> #endvote
[15:28] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Is juliank suitable for core-dev, despite looking like he's 12?
[15:28] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:28] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:28] <infinity> Looketh good to me.
[15:29] <juliank> Yay!
[15:29] <infinity> Who wants to go add him?
[15:29] <ogra_> congrats !!
[15:29] <rbasak> I'll do it.
[15:29] <infinity> rbasak: Ta.
[15:29] <infinity> #topic Next chair
[15:29] <infinity> Next chair should be Micah again, I guess.
[15:30] <infinity> And probably me a few times, because I keep missing meetings.
[15:30] <infinity> #topic AOB
[15:30] <infinity> Anyone have any OB?
[15:30] <cyphermox> how's South Africa?
[15:30] <infinity> Pleasant.
[15:30] <infinity> Nice mild winter.
[15:30] <infinity> Beats the harsh summer back home.
[15:30] <juliank> It's really warm today!
[15:31] <infinity> Right, that concludes our OB, it seems.
[15:31] <infinity> #endmeeting
[15:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  4 15:31:20 2016 UTC.
[15:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-07-04-15.16.moin.txt
[15:40] <sil2100> o/ Thanks everyone!


[14:32] <balloons> barry, I have a weird python error I'm wondering if you might be able to help me with. The error only occurs on the device; OverflowError: timestamp out of range for platform time_t.
[14:36] <barry> balloons: could be a 32bit thing perhaps?
[14:38] <balloons> barry, mm.. yes. I need a way to define an arbitrary time (hours and minutes) with no regards to date or timezone.. and not get this error
[14:39] <barry> balloons: what is the code that triggers this error?
[14:40] <balloons> barry, I started to share, but I'm seeing a qml error that makes me think it might still be something in the code
[14:40] <balloons> regardless, let me paste
[14:41] <balloons> barry, here's a simplified snippet of code.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/7634006/. It fails in the set_picker function
[14:42] <balloons> the traceback
[14:42] <balloons> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7634011/
[14:44] <barry> balloons: it would be interesting to know what self[0] is
[14:48] <balloons> barry, thanks.. this session is almost over and I'll hack on it a bit more and ping you again if needed
[14:49] <barry> balloons: sounds good
[17:33] <elopio> balloons: do you have time for a review?
[17:33] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-filemanager-app/clean_context_menu_tests/+merge/222888
[20:52] <thomi> barry: got time for a quick hangout call in 10-15 minutes?
[20:55] <barry> thomi: hey.  yeah
[21:03] <thomi> barry: nuclearbob: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g7m47jdjaxzu35ctiy2u4a3w2qa?authuser=1&hl=en
[21:11] <nuclearbob> https://launchpad.net/~fkrull/+archive/deadsnakes
[21:19] <barry> nuclearbob: https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/2014/Debconf2014
[21:29] <barry> excellent.  steve can be very convincing too :)
[21:29] <thomi> I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that discussion :)
[21:30] <barry> :)
[21:30] <thomi> nuclearbob: I'm doing a dist-upgrade, then I'll re-try your pyramid package
[21:31] <nuclearbob> thomi: my test branch is here, if it ends up being useful: lp:~nuclearbob/+junk/pyramid-test
[21:31] <nuclearbob> I think it's time for me to dist-upgrade too
[21:31] <thomi> nuclearbob: awesome, thanks
[21:31] <thomi> nuclearbob: sp
[21:32] <thomi> nuclearbob: so I'll spend today trying to get a basic pyramid app + the database set up
[21:32] <thomi> nuclearbob: I'll stick the work in a branch that we both have write access to
[21:32] <thomi> nuclearbob: and I'll email you at my EOD so you can pick up where I left off tomorrow - sounds good?
[21:32] <nuclearbob> thomi: that works
[21:41] <thomi> nuclearbob: got another bug report: pserve segfaults
[21:42] <thomi> err, I mean "crashes"
[21:42] <thomi> nuclearbob: looks like a problem in chameleon
[21:43] <thomi> nuclearbob: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7635676/
[21:47] <nuclearbob> thomi: that's interesting
[21:47] <thomi> "interesting" is one word for it
[21:47] <nuclearbob> I can use two if you want
[21:47] <nuclearbob> way interesting
[21:50] <nuclearbob> hmm
[21:50] <nuclearbob> so you have this in a container, or somewhere else?
[21:55] <thomi> nuclearbob: just on my laptop
[21:59] <nuclearbob> thomi: can you pip in chameleon and see if that fixes it?
[22:11] <thomi> nuclearbob: sure, one sec
[22:12] <thomi> nuclearbob: can't use a virtualenv with pserve
[22:13] <nuclearbob> thomi: hmm
[22:14] <nuclearbob> I could have sworn the pyramid tutorial started with a virtualenv
[22:14] <nuclearbob> I do everything in containers so I can just pip in stuff will-nilly and toss it if I need to
[22:14] <thomi> oh, probably if I install pyramid as well
[22:14] <nuclearbob> thomi: what user are you using?  can you pip stuff with --user
[22:14] <nuclearbob> right, it was part of the install
[22:14] <thomi> but pserve's #! line doesn't use 'env'
[22:15] <nuclearbob> I bet it gets rewritten by the packaging
[22:15] <nuclearbob> I think it's debian policy to not use env in python shebang lines
[22:16] <thomi> yeah, so I get the same error when trying to import the brand new scaffolded pyramid app
[22:16] <thomi> so it's not just pserve
[22:16] <thomi> python
[22:16] <thomi> oops
[22:17] <thomi> similar traceback
[22:18] <thomi> nuclearbob: you basically cannot import pyramid.config.Configurator, which seems pretty central to pyramid apps :-/
[22:19] <nuclearbob> thomi: indeed.  I'm taking a look in my container
[22:19] <nuclearbob> works with the packages I built there, I'll try a new container and the packages from the ppa
[22:19] <thomi> same error on your branch FWIW
[22:20] <nuclearbob> thomi: thanks.  Knowing that that import fails should make it easy to track down
[22:20] <thomi> nuclearbob: reproducer is: python3 -c "import pyramid.config"
[22:23] <nuclearbob> getting a new container spun up
[22:23] <nuclearbob> doot doot doo
[22:36] <nuclearbob> okay, blowing up with the packages, let's see how much I have to pull in from other sources to fix it
[22:55] <nuclearbob> okay, importing chameleon at all blows up
[22:55] <thomi> nuclearbob: hmmm
[22:55] <nuclearbob> and if I install pyramid via pip, I don't get chameleon
[22:55] <thomi> oh yeah
[22:55] <thomi> hmmm
[22:55] <nuclearbob> maybe the chameleon dependency is dropped in 1.5?
[22:58] <thomi> nuclearbob: we should probably be packaging 1.5 anyway?
[22:58] <nuclearbob> thomi: yes, I just grabbed 1.4 because it was already packaged for trusty, but 1.5 does remove the chameleon dependency
[22:59] <nuclearbob> thomi: I'll get that packaged, I'm only on for another hour today, so I'll see if I make it
[22:59] <thomi> nuclearbob: I've already done it for python 2 annyway - perhaps you can re-use that work?
[22:59] <nuclearbob> thomi: I think between your work and mine it should be easy
[22:59] <nuclearbob> but things I think should be easy still sometimes take a couple hours to get built into ppas
[23:00] <nuclearbob> thomi: can you throw me your branch url again?
[23:00] <thomi> nuclearbob: there's no branch, just a debian bug and a diff
[23:01] <nuclearbob> thomi: is the diff in the packaging email thread or somewhere else?
[23:01] <thomi> nuclearbob: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=751067
[23:14] <nuclearbob> all right, this package can import pyramid.config
[23:14] <nuclearbob> let's get it uploaded
[23:16] <nuclearbob> threw it at my ppa
[23:16] <thomi> nuclearbob: which ppa?
[23:19] <nuclearbob> thomi: I threw it at mine first to make sure it got accepted, I'll push it to the ci one once it builds
[23:20] <nuclearbob> ugh, 9 minutes.  I can't wait for that.  I'll push it to the ci one too and they can race
[23:21] <thomi> nuclearbob: awesome, thanks man
[23:23] <thomi> nuclearbob: I'll send you an email at my EOD with whatever I got done
[23:23] <thomi> have a good evening!
[23:32] <nuclearbob> thomi: cool, thanks


[09:43] <cjwatson> clivejo: https://help.launchpad.net/API/Webhooks has all the details
[09:45] <cjwatson> clivejo: I can't speak for the details of Jenkins integration, but it should be possible
[20:45] <bittin-_> Hello anyone can help me find out what email account i got on my Ubuntu One and Launchpad account ?
[20:52] <bittin-_> Anyone can help me check what email is regged on this account: https://launchpad.net/~bittin ?
[21:13] <bittin_> Hello anyone could help reset my launchpad account?
[22:31] <wgrant> bittin_: See PM
[22:33] <bittin_> wgrant: alright
[22:35] <bittin_> answered
[23:13] <bittin_> oh well off to sleep now cya guys around


 @m הקטנה, This looks pretty spammy.
[01:45] <_myst_> Hi, can you guys help out please & thanks in advance. thanks inadvance, Ive just installed eos, for daughters pc. I need to configure my network, to use <IP_ADDRESS>. Ive been randomly dropping out. at this moment I'm using <IP_ADDRESS>.119.know have a working network on the pc, as I have been randomly dropping out
[03:30] <grey__> Hello
[03:30] <grey__> I have a little situation here and I dont know how to fix it and my roommate is going to shoot me if I dont
[03:31] <grey__> Installed Kubuntu on a flash drive for convenience. Shut down the computer when I was done and when I tried to boot it back up again the wiindows drive just vanished.
[03:32] <grey__> So now the computer refuses to boot windows and gives me a black sccreen telling me to install a boot medium
[03:32] <grey__> only thing that works now is the drive with Kubuntu
[03:37] <grey__> Is there anyone out there who can give me a hand?
[03:38] <t00tie> change boot order in bios?
[03:45] <Poobis> I might try that
[03:45] <Poobis> I am not sure why I didnt think of that
 @洋子 Lawal, Spam?
 Hi everyone, I'm testing Kubuntu 20.04 and I have a small problem with Chromium Browser (snap), it doesn't save passwords, there is a way to fix it ?
[08:24] <tomreyn> maybe this is bug 1849693
[08:54] <chen> hello
 Why forcing to use snap version of Chromium even if is buggy ?
[08:59] <chen> I don't know
[09:00] <diogenes_> Alessandro, that's the future as it's seen by Mark Shuttleworth.
 @diogenes_, A problematic future I guess, I don't see any good reason to force user to switch to snap problematic package
 So is not a problem related to 20.04 but a snap package problem and there is not anymore alternative to use chromium, very sad, time to switch to other browser ?
 Anyway, Kubuntu 20.04 seems to be already very stable, congratulation to any developer working on it 👍
 Firefox is dramatically better'n it's ever been in the past.
[09:22] <diogenes_> blooalien, some sites don't function properly in ff.
 @diogenes_, I have yet to come across any that have given me any troubles, and I browse the web pretty much daily.
[09:27] <diogenes_> blooalien, try this one for instance: https://web.skype.com/
[09:28] <diogenes_> on this one you can't swich cam and mic on/off: https://whereby.com/test
[09:29] <diogenes_> and they both work well in chromium.
 Huh...  Strange about Skype, as the Skype support in Hotmail works for me just fine.  Wonder why they claim that one can't.
 I bet it'd work without issue if I change my browser headers to lie about what browser I'm usin'.
 They're prolly doing some lame browser agent sniffing thing.
[09:33] <diogenes_> blooalien, with skype yes, you can change the user agent and it works but the second one won't work.
 Sadly, I ain't gotta camera, so cannot test the second one very thoroughly, but if they can't code their site right, then I'd never use their service anyhow.  There's tons of similar services that work fine in Firefox.
[09:36] <diogenes_> blooalien, unfortunately due to work and other circumstaces, people have no better choice.
 I honestly didn't even know that Skype had any other webapp outside of the one I normally use in Hotmail (which I rarely ever check, as Hotmail is my "spam" dumping ground that I use to sign up for stuff with).
 @diogenes_, That's literally the first site I've had give me any issue in Firefox in many years, and to be honest, I'm surprised that any sites at all still do that lame browser agent sniffing garbage anymore.  It's horribly bad web design practice.  You're supposed to be doing feature checking instead these days.
 Tho I guess I should not be surprised at a Microsoft owned service doing shady outdated crap with their web design.
 Now I'm starting to wonder how long it'll be before I visit GitHub only to be told that it don't work in Firefox and I need Chrome or Edge...
[09:43] <diogenes_> blooalien, that's to be expected but MS is a drowning Titanic already.
[09:43] <tomreyn> diogenes_: i also don't have a cam connected but the rest seems to work fine on my ubuntu 18.04 LTS with firefox 72.0.2 (64-bit)
[09:44] <tomreyn> that's on https://whereby.com/test
 @diogenes_, Shame that they'll prolly end up ruining GitHub sooner or later.
[09:44] <diogenes_> tomreyn, yes no cam or mic accessible.
[09:45] <tomreyn> i did have to click on "request access" (to microphone and video) on the bottom, though
 @diogenes_, Mic worked for me.  Just wasn't able to test the cam.
[09:45] <tomreyn> diogenes_: i'm saying mic and screen sharing works fine
[09:45] <tomreyn> just cam i can't try, for lack of hardware
[09:47] <diogenes_> sorry guys i wasn't clear enough, camera and mic works but there are buttons on the bottom to switch the cam and mic on and off and they are grayed out.
[09:47] <diogenes_> in chromium they work, i've tried the user agents and they don't make any difference.
[09:48] <tomreyn> diogenes_: you may need to enable mic and cam access on the left end of the address bar
 @diogenes_, Does not appear to be an issue here for me.  Seems to be working as expected as far as I can tell.
[09:50] <diogenes_> tomreyn, i allowed access and i can see and hear but can't turn it off, no clue i'm on ff 68 esr.
[09:50] <tomreyn> diogenes_: which kubuntu release is this? 16.04?
[09:50] <tomreyn> !info firefox xenial
 That might be it.  I'm on Firefox 73.0
[09:51] <tomreyn> there doesn't seem to be this firefox version on any supported (k)ubuntu release
[09:51] <diogenes_> tomreyn, Debian 10.
[09:51] <tomreyn> "this" -> ff 68 esr
[09:51] <tomreyn> well, this channel is about kubuntu
 I'm on Kubuntu 18.04LTS
[09:52] <diogenes_> tomreyn, and i was not asking for support, just saying :)
[09:52] <tomreyn> oh ok, got you wrong then
[09:54] <tomreyn> so i think this site does function properly at least on kubuntu then
[09:54] <tomreyn> but indeed i had assume dit'd also work fine on ESR
[09:55] <tomreyn> those sharing options have been there for a while. maybe debian just ships some different defaults where access to microphone and camera is off by default or something.
 Little shocked it doesn't.  Web based video chat is old-hat these days.
 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=skype&platform=Linux … Looks like Firefox has addons to work around the Skype junk.
[10:03] <diogenes_> blooalien, none of those allow to make calls.
[10:04] <diogenes_> only to chat.
 I see several that claim to support video/voice calls.  You gonna make me install and test 'em?
[10:06] <diogenes_> i've tried all some time ago and they weren't able to call.
 "Skype Web Messenger brings Skype right into your browser to make audio and video calls."
[10:07] <diogenes_> maybe ff 73 brings something new to the table but i doubt.
 There's also a Linux native Skype desktop app still as well, isn't there?  (Dunno, as I ain't used Skype in ages, other than the occasional message while checking my Hotmail.)
[10:08] <diogenes_> blooalien, that the last thing i'd want, proprietary apps on my system.
[10:08] <diogenes_> so webapps are ok.
 The webapp is just as proprietary as the desktop app is.  If you're willing to use Skype at all, then webapp vs desktop app shouldn't bother you that much.
[10:10] <diogenes_> blooalien, you don't install webapps on your system so it's not the same.
 So, I'm on the Skype webapp in Firefox using one of those Firefox addons right now and it sure looks like everything all works exactly as expected.
 Again, I can't test the camera support, but the mic works, and I just did a calltest and that worked.
[10:15] <diogenes_> blooalien, then i can applaud ff 73, could you give me the link to the addon?
 The first one I tested was https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/skype-web-ff/ and it's working fine to bypass that browser agent sniffing.
 It's not that Firefox doesn't support Skype.  It's that Microsoft is refusing to allow any browser that isn't claiming to be Chrome or Edge to even TRY to use the Skype webapp.  The browser itself appears fully capable of running Skype without issue.
[10:19] <oerheks> there is a working snap > sudo snap install skype --classic   https://snapcraft.io/skype
 In my own personal experience, since around Firefox 53 or so, I've been able to use every site I've tried, including many that claim to be Chrome only.  On rare occasion I'll have to lie to a site about my browser, but that's bad web design forcing that, not Firefox.  Nothing you can do about clueless web designers except work around their stupidity.
[10:21] <diogenes_> blooalien, it changes the user agent i see, i do the same thing manually by adding in about:config: general.useragent.override.web.skype.com
 Yep.  The addon just makes it simple/automatic is all.
 Other question on default software on Kubuntu 20.04, the standard music player is Elisa which is great but it seems to miss some features, there are extension for it or it's just good basic player and for something richer I should install other software like amarok for example ?
 @oerheks> there is a working snap , I've also read articles about how to sandbox the Skype desktop app into a container, too.  Totally possible to be as paranoid as you want (just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't actually out to get you) and still use Skype desktop if you really wanna...  This is Linux, after all...  ;)
[10:26] <diogenes_> Alessandro, what features you are missing.
 Amarok is still one of my favorite music players/organizers on KDE.
 @diogenes_, shoutcast for example
[10:30] <franzpow_> Hi. How to copy files from my Kubuntu partition to my windows partition?
 There's also `qmmp` if you want something more WinAmp-like.
[10:31] <franzpow_> I am able to read the windows partition in dolphin, but not able to copy files into it
 @franzpow_, Should pretty much just be drag'n'drop in your filemanager (Dolphin) innit?
[10:31] <franzpow_> It does not work
[10:31] <franzpow_> Bc it says it's mounted as read only
 Wierd.  Partition mounted readonly?
[10:31] <franzpow_> Yea
 Is NTFS-3G installed?
[10:32] <franzpow_> I don't know
[10:32] <diogenes_> franzpow_, boot into windows and then reboot into linux and it should be working, but reboot, not shutdown.
[10:33] <oerheks> if a partition is mounted read-only, something is wrong with the filesystem. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilesystemTroubleshooting
[10:33] <franzpow_> Should I have to do this everytime?
 `apt list --installed | grep ntfs` should tell ya if it's installed or not.
[10:33] <oerheks> ntfs is installed standard now
[10:33] <diogenes_> franzpow_, yes unless you disable fastboot.
 @oerheks, This is a good point.  It could be that the partition simply needs an error check in Windows to clean up some little thing.
[10:34] <franzpow_> I have it installed
 @blooalien, But amarok has even been removed from repos ? 🤔
 NTFS-3G does not like to allow writing to any partition it thinks might be "dirty" (unchecked for errors in too long, or possibly as yet unfixed errors lingering in the filesystem).
 @Alessandro, Really?  It's still there in 18.04.  Haven't tried anything newer as yet.
[10:36] <franzpow_> Diogenes_ so basically all I should do is trying to boot into windows? What must be done to have it ready to write on it without problems everytimr?
[10:36] <diogenes_> franzpow_, to disable fastboot.
 @blooalien, I'm surprised but I didn't  find "Amarok" in discover  or muon on 20.04, but maybe is just because is an early version ?
 @blooalien, It was removed in 19.04. Still being ported to kf5
[10:37] <franzpow_> What fastboot stands for?
 So glad I don't have Windows anymore.  Such a pain in the butt it was to deal with.
 @MFraz74, Actually 18.04 seems to have been the last time it was available.
 @MFraz74, Bummer.  :(
[10:39] <franzpow_> I hate windows but it's playing games with me :') it does start in less time now than my kubuntu installation
[10:39] <franzpow_> That's odd
[10:39] <franzpow_> Btw booting now in kubuntu to see if I am able to write on win partition
 @blooalien, There is a PPA - https://launchpad.net/~joe-yasi/+archive/ubuntu/amarok-kde5 but at the moment it needs an external database set up due to changes in mysql 8.0.
 I genuinely cannot use Windows anymore.  It literally enrages me every time I try now.   Thanks
[10:44] <diogenes_> you're welcome.
 @franzpow_, Sweet.  Congrats!
[10:44] <franzpow_> Which changes "fastboot" provide to my system If I disable it?
[10:44] <diogenes_> franzpow_, slower boot.
 Isn't fastboot just a form of suspend or hibernate basically?
[10:45] <diogenes_> blooalien, yeah
 https://youtu.be/UYn4UYQ-nTo
 I seem to remember readin' somewhere a while back that it wasn't really anything terribly innovative or special.
[10:46] <franzpow_> That does not sound good to me. Should stick with restarting my pc whenever I want to enter my windows partition
[10:47] <franzpow_> Linuxophil: no thanks
 @franzpow_, It actually shouldn't make all that huge a difference really.
 @franzpow_, Celebrating the endless configurability of our favourite desktop? Yes please!!
 "endless configurability" <- This is one of the main things that keeps me on KDE and Linux.  :)
 LOVE bein' able to tailor my environment pretty much perfectly for just about anything I need.  ;)
[10:54] <franzpow_> Linuxophil: you're right, I simply don't like copying other OS ' DE
[10:54] <franzpow_> I am fine with KDE and a little modifications to my desktop and it's just right :)
 @franzpow_, It IS pretty well set up right outta the box.  Doesn't take much tweaking at all to make it fairly perfect after a clean install.
[10:56] <franzpow_> blooalien, now I should find a way to make kubuntu faster at boot like it was when I installed it
[10:57] <franzpow_> Are there some tools that clean the system from temp files.. Or something like that?
[10:57] <franzpow_> blooalien, I perfectly agree with you
 @franzpow_, Make sure you've disabled any services you ain't needing for starters...  Each startup service (of course) adds a little bit to the boot time.
 @franzpow_, Temp files shouldn't affect startup time at all, and they're automatically torched at each reboot, as tmpfs is a ram-based filesystem.
[10:59] <franzpow_> Yeah but I did not add any service since the installation..
[11:00] <franzpow_> I made a mess sometimes with my system but... I thinks simply something odd happened
[11:00] <franzpow_> I OC my CPU and strangely windows booted like a rocket. I did not boot windows partition since 2-3 months
[11:01] <franzpow_> So it's strange enough.. Kubuntu used to be very fast compared to windows boot
[11:01] <franzpow_> On my old core2duo
 https://askubuntu.com/questions/10290/how-do-i-improve-boot-speed might have some good tips about boot speedup?
[11:04] <franzpow_> I will check it out. It's like my system became heavier in 4-5 months
[11:04] <franzpow_> I have installed Ubuntu and kubuntu together because I made a mess tryng to install xfce on ubuntu
 I wonder if https://www.linux.com/tutorials/speed-your-ubuntu-machine-boot-time/ still works...
[11:05] <franzpow_> And forced to install kubuntu to recover my system
[11:05] <franzpow_> Because I was not able to boot in ubuntu anymore (problems with DE)
 Been ages since I last rendered my desktop unusable.  Kinda feeling lucky now...  :)
[11:06] <franzpow_> I am no expert user.. :)
 @franzpow_, I guess I kinda am nowadays, but I been usin' Linux exclusively now for well over a decade, so...  Practice makes perfect, I guess...  :)
[11:17] <franzpow_> It took 1 min 53 seconds to boot my pc from boot selector to desktop..
[11:17] <franzpow_> running systemd-analyze it says
[11:17] <franzpow_> 3.7 sec kernel and 53.6 user space
[11:17] <franzpow_> Total 57.3 seconds
 @franzpow_, If you add `blame` on the end of that, you get extreme detail about what all is using up boot time.
 `systemd-analyze blame`
 The top five timewasters in my own current boot... … ```28.774s mysql.service … 22.019s mpd.service … 15.612s php7.2-fpm.service … 14.676s apt-daily-upgrade.service … 14.249s ModemManager.service```
[11:28] <franzpow_> Mmm
 I should really disable `ModemManager.service` on mine, as I don't actually use it.  (No modem of any sort.  Just regular ol' wifi.)
[11:29] <franzpow_> I have gnome services in my ksysguard
[11:29] <franzpow_> I should disable them
[11:30] <franzpow> 31.914s dev-sda5.device
[11:30] <franzpow>          21.922s snapd.service
[11:30] <franzpow>          20.031s systemd-journal-flush.service
[11:30] <franzpow>          18.481s udisks2.service
[11:30] <franzpow>          17.018s mpd.service
[11:30] <franzpow>          16.296s accounts-daemon.service
[11:31] <franzpow>          10.245s dev-loop14.device
[11:31] <franzpow>          10.050s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
 Also I just switched `mpd.service` over from autostart to socket start, so it'll only start on demand when in actual use.
 I would definitely be careful which services you actually disable tho.  Some of those you list there are pretty critical systems.
[11:32] <franzpow> Can you help me reading the entire list?
[11:32] <franzpow> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/89yqrxY4yG/
[11:34] <franzpow> I have a lot of things that take a lot of time
[11:34] <franzpow> I can't find them here, but if I open task manager I see some gnome services that I don't need
 It's gonna depend on your specific system and needs.  Just be careful not to disable key systems like NetworkManager, or filesystems, or accounts-daemon, etc.  Stuff that the system relies upon for normal operations.  And don't disable databases that apps you actually use rely upon (like in my case, I must leave MySQL enabled, because some apps I use require it.
[11:35] <franzpow> how to disable services?
 @franzpow, You may actually need those Gnome services if you have/use GTK based apps that require them.
[11:35] <franzpow> sorry I lost your links because I was logged in IRC with my phone
 You use the `systemctl` command, or the GUI tool suggested at that AskUbuntu page https://github.com/mmstick/systemd-manager
 https://askubuntu.com/questions/10290/how-do-i-improve-boot-speed
[11:41] <tomreyn> replacing some of those snaps by .deb packages may be a good option to speed up booting
[11:41] <tomreyn> not that a 22s boot time is by any means a problem
 Native packages FTW.  Snaps/Flatpaks suxxorz.
 Prolly just shaved a good 45 seconds off my own boot time by disabling services I KNOW I don't need or use, and switching a couple over to start on-demand via socket activation.
[12:22] <franzpow_> How to uninstall ubuntu? I have installed it and kubuntu together
[12:22] <franzpow_> Are there any chances I will break my system?
[12:23] <oerheks> adding a desktop is no problem, removing one is interesting
[12:23] <franzpow_> I have kubuntu session and ubuntu on the same HDD
[12:23] <franzpow_> oerheks, if it's too difficult nevermind
[12:23] <oerheks> apt purge ubuntu-desktop # would be a start
[12:24] <franzpow_> Well, after that?  And no DE at start
[12:27] <oerheks> i hope it does not pull your kde desktop with it..
[12:29] <franzpow_> :')
[12:31] <franzpow_> https://www.howtogeek.com/69753/how-to-cut-your-linux-pcs-boot-time-in-half-with-e4rat/
[12:31] <franzpow_> I found this, anyone knows this tool?
[12:33] <oerheks> such old tool from 2012 ?
[12:33] <oerheks> no, we have preload
[12:33] <oerheks> !info preload
[12:39] <franzpow_> Last update from 2014
[12:39] <franzpow_> Does preload comes out of the box from kubuntu?
[12:54] <oerheks> .. is optional.  = no
[13:51] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:07] <rebecca> hey BluesKaj
[14:13] <BluesKaj> hi rebecca
[16:11] <user|56739> no puedo actualizar con los últimos drivers de amd
[16:11] <user|56739> tengo kubntu 19.10
[16:11] <franzpow> Hi, as I said earlier I would like to uninstall ubuntu from my pc. I am actually using kubuntu and installed Ubuntu months ago on the same machine
[16:12] <franzpow> can someone guide me through the removing of the desktop? I am afraid of breaking anything
[16:13] <franzpow> I know running "sudo apt purge ubuntu-desktop" could get me in some trouble
[16:13] <oerheks> user|56739, english please
[16:14] <user|56739> please, not have installing amd drivers
[16:15] <oerheks> franzpow, if you try with the -d option = dry run, you could see what is happening
[16:15] <oerheks> sudo apt purge -d ubuntu-desktop
[16:15] <franzpow> what does it mean "dry run"?
[16:16] <oerheks> just a test, nothing gets installed/removed
[16:16] <franzpow> wow cool
[16:16] <oerheks> :-)
[16:17] <oerheks> if you see any KDE stuff in that list, you know it will do something with your kubuntu desktop
[16:17] <oerheks> user|56739, for what videocard? openradeon should be installed standard
[16:21] <franzpow> ok I am running it
[16:21] <franzpow> orheks, should I select yes?
[16:23] <franzpow> In the list I see Rythm bos
[16:23] <franzpow> *rythm box.. remmina.. cheese and other stuff
[16:24] <franzpow> nothing kde related.. I think
[16:24] <oerheks> good
[16:36] <franzpow> I did it. I should restart to see if my system blew up..
[16:38] <oerheks> jups
[18:22] <Roey> hi
[18:23] <Roey> I'd like to cast video and audio from my kubuntu desktop to my TV wirelessly. What solutions are avilable for doing this through Linux?
[18:26] <ds-lxde> use windows 10 easy fix :D
[22:51] <user|9581> Hi, sorry to bother
[22:51] <user|9581> does anyone know how to update Intel drivers in a Kubuntu system?
 @user|9581, Assumedly, you're looking for the newest available version you can get ahold of, aye?  Personally, I'm currently using the latest HWE drivers from Ubuntu, but there's also one or two PPAs that provide newer than default graphic drivers.
[23:00] <user|3905> Hi. Why kubuntu has less support?
 @user|3905, Less support than what?  It's an official flavor of Ubuntu, so it's got any support that Ubuntu has.
[23:05] <henk_> ja
[23:07] <bprompt> user|3905:  it doesn't, is just ubuntu with KDE preinstalled, is all
[23:08] <henk_> whats the use
[23:09] <bprompt> user|3905:  back in the early 2000's for example, I installed SuSE, and I installed also KDE and ran kde apps in SuSE, you can say that I was running KSuSE if you wish, but it was just SuSE with kde, which you can do today on any *nix distribution, also ran mandrake 9.2 with kde and redhat, same
[23:11] <bprompt> henk_:  what's the advantage? or use for it instead of plain ubuntu? just choice of desktop manager and window managers, convenience, I could get an iso of Ubuntu and install it, and then install kde afterwards, is much simpler if everything goes in one-go though :)
[23:11] <henk_> well for me this is all new. just had linux installed after windows 7 was out and  i remeber Mirc from the past
[23:12] <bprompt> henk_:  I use windows too, I have windows10 pro, ran 7, xp, 8.1, also ran back in the days, 3.0 and 3.1 with workgroups, and yes, I also used Mirc and did some scripting in it as well, good client
[23:13] <henk_> not sure if i ever want windows again
[23:14] <bprompt> is not a bad OS, but depends on one's needs and choices
[23:14] <henk_> true
 @henk_, You're prolly already comfortable with the IRC software available in Linux then.  Most of it's a lot like Mirc.  You may notice that most software you find in Linux will be quite familiar to you, actually.    Go there and type in the name of a software you know and would like an alternative for to get a list of other similar software.  Then you can search that software in your package manager.
[23:16] <bprompt> Solaris is also pretty good OS
[23:16] <henk_> should i try that?
 @bprompt, Most variants of Unix-ish type operating systems are pretty sweet.
[23:16] <bprompt> I know some folks also who do quite a bit in FreeBSD, which from what I heard is just plain Unix, just free
[23:17] <bprompt> blooalien:   you can get lots of things done, also ran slackware for a while back in 1998 or so
[23:17] <henk_> well the thing is i have an old computer aprox 15 years old that is on of the reasons i did not want to change from windows 7 to windows 10
 Slack was one of the earlier Linuxes that I really enjoyed using.  Mandrake, too.
[23:18] <henk_> also why should i buy a new computer while this one is still working ok
 @henk_, Gotta love that Linux runs well even on older hardware.
[23:19] <bprompt> henk_:  15 years old, meaning, your computer uses SATA2 HDD,  and you have a dual-core cpu pretty much, and about 1.3ghz in speed on each core, right?
[23:19] <henk_> hey i am not that technical lol
[23:19] <henk_> no idea
[23:20] <henk_> ihave a hp compac
[23:20] <bprompt> well, pretty much that'd be the hardware for 2005 or so
[23:22] <henk_> it was fun to explore other os.  ubuntu was k but i could not fix the resolution.  so i tried linux mint and yes   i like it
[23:22] <bprompt> henk_:  reason I said that is, because you can just get a cheap SSD, say hmmmm on the low-end you can get a 30Gbs one, yes 30Gbs SSD, windows7 takes only 10gbs on original installation, windows10 takes 12gbs, and linux takes around 8 Gbs, so that gives you room for installation, and with an SSD, that machine can run about 7 times or more faster
[23:23] <bprompt> on higher-end,  you can just get a 120Gbs SSD, and that'd work, SSD's are SATA2 and higher, so they'd fit on that HDD connector
[23:24] <henk_> well thanks for the advise but I would not know how to fix and or replace  hardware
 @henk_, It's actually quite a bit easier than you might at first think.  YouTube will hand-hold you through a lot of the most common ones.  :)
[23:25] <bprompt> henk_:  just saying, that the machine being old, doesn't mean much on speed, you can upgrade it and make it fly
[23:25] <henk_> lol
[23:25] <bprompt> just the SSD change does far more than a RAM upgrade
 And especially these days, hardware tends to be pretty genuinely "plug 'n play" especially on Linux.
[23:26] <henk_> yes and i learned a lot already via you tube lol
[23:27] <henk_> dual boot /  install ubuntu next to windows / change partitions     etc.    took me hours to find out and to understand. but fun
[23:27] <henk_> keeps my head in working order to prevent alzheimer  lol
[23:28] <henk_> but ok what is SSD
[23:28] <bprompt> henk_:  use it or lose it :P
 @henk_, Never hurts to keep the brain active.  It's like a muscle in that regard.  "Use it or lose it..."  :)
 @bprompt, ROFL - Beat me to it.  :)
[23:29] <bprompt> @echo off
[23:29] <bprompt> heheh
 @henk_, Solid State Disk.  No moving parts.
[23:29] <henk_> ok thanks  sorry but i do not know nothing about computers .
 @henk_, Clearly you know more'n you give yourself credit for if you successfully transitioned to Linux.  ;)
[23:31] <henk_> oh thanks  but hardware?
[23:31] <henk_> i can hook up a printer lol
 hardware is every part of the pc which you can kick
[23:31] <bprompt> henk_:  SSD = solid state disk, is pretty much a usb-stick but larger, as mentioned, since it has no moving parts, no mechanical arm to move around disks and plates, it uses less power, and it doesn't vibrate, runs very quite, since it relies on cell-mapping on the drive, and data-retrieval is for the same reasons, a snap, they're not speed-rated by RPM(revolutions per minute), they're speed-rated by IOMPS(i/o mbs per second)
 @henk_, Not possible to know everything all at once.  You're doin' the right thing by asking questions about things you wanna know more about.  That and reading are two of the better ways to learn new stuff.  :)
[23:32] <henk_> good explanation  i understand
[23:33] <bprompt> henk_:  just to show you, on a "spinner HDD", if I click on Libreoffice Suite, it opens in 10 seconds or so, on an SSD, same system, Libreoffice opens in 1sec, yes, is not a typo, in second flat
[23:33] <henk_> brb
[23:45] <henk_> indeed libreoffice takes some seconds before it opens and typing sometimes hangs. the difference you mentioning is impressive.  so whenever iI buy a new machine  I have to look for one with ssd
[23:46] <bprompt> eh? hheheh, well, breaking news for you, about half or so new machines already come with SSD
 i wanna buy an sdd
 ssd*
[23:48] <bprompt> I said what I said, because you have a SATA2 port, and you can get a 30Gbs SSD for around $25US or so, and plug that in and install windows10 and Ubuntu 20.04 if you wish, with very little slowing down
[23:49] <bprompt> in amazon.com you can find a 120Gbs SSD, say, used for around $70US or so, a new for around $100US
 @bprompt, (Or even less these days if you're patient enough to wait for a bargain to roll along...)
[23:50] <bprompt> yeap, you can wait for say 4th of July sales, or some other phony holiday
 I've seen pretty sizable SSDs on sale for $50 or less.  Just gotta catch good timing on a decent bargain.
[23:51] <henk_> so i connect a SSD next to my computer and install windows on there.  interesting  . i learn a lot  this evening.  but pls explain SATA2 port
[23:51] <bprompt> another good spot to check around for half-used or not-longer-needed material is craigslist.org/sys , you can find cheap computers and parts
 @henk_, Serial ATA - It's the new replacement for SCSI and IDE (the old ways that hard drives were plugged in).
[23:52] <bprompt> darn.... https://craigslist.org/sys/ gives a 404 cow =), but anyhow https://craigslist.org/
 And you generally install an SSD inside the computer as the main boot drive, but they do also make external cases for SATA drives you can use as well if you prefer that.
 There's usually only two cables for a SATA drive, and they only fit in the way they're supposed to fit, so you can't really plug 'em in wrong.
[23:54] <henk_> is the plug in like a usb?
 @henk_, A little bit, but even harder to plug in incorrectly, because it has some little notches that force it to only fit the right way.
 And the two cords are different, so you can't get that part wrong either.  Power only fits the power plug, and the data cable only fits in the data plug.
[23:57] <henk_> do i have to open my computer or can i connect from the outside. sorry for being so...... lol
 @henk_, Depends if your computer has an external SATA connector on the back or not.  Usually SSDs go inside the computer tho, so you'd likely have to open your computer.  The SATA connectors are easy to identify tho.  I'm sure Google has pictures that'll help.  :)


[02:27] <doko> infinity: any lpia news? else I would assume no news are good news =)
[02:28] <Mithrandir> doko: he's in transit.
[02:30] <doko> ahh, ok.


[07:42] <SvenKieske> hey there, someone here familiar with spectre_v2 attacks/mitigations? if I understand this report correctly it is not possible currently to allow virtualized guests on ubuntu 20.04. to take advantage of the IBRS mitigation? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1921754
[07:44] <SvenKieske> sorry, I meant 18.04
[07:44] <cpaelzer> ah, I just wondered as it is fix released for focal and later
[07:57] <cpaelzer> There are various ways to get newer virt stacks onto 18.04 like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenStack/CloudArchive or https://launchpad.net/~canonical-server/+archive/ubuntu/server-backports - but at some point things start to show its age (and it isn't broken, just not able to use the speedup of the mitigation). And that also only on very recent chips as e.g. a bunch of -IBRS chips are even in bionic
[07:57] <cpaelzer> back in the day there was no reasonable backport as AMD also changed a lot of other structural things, maybe there is something nowadays and it would be good to re-evaluate
[07:59] <cpaelzer> I have not much time, but I see your bug update which is great to give this a new look
[07:59] <tomreyn> isn't the issue there just that there is no EPYC-Rome CPU model for 18.04 (and thus no need to provide Epyc-Rome-IBRS either)?
[08:00] <cpaelzer> yeah, that is part of the truth tomreyn. But the follow up would be how would I IBRS on an EPYC* then?
[08:00] <cpaelzer> I'd need to have a look ...
[08:03] <cpaelzer> upstreams 2.11.2 stable tree also has only the intel IBRS models (we have that) and EPYC-IBPB (mind the characters, not the same) we have that as well
[08:22] <tomreyn> Hmm, apparently CVE-2017-5715 is generally non-mitigated on 18.04 amd64 with HWE (5.4.0-104-generic #118~18.04.1-Ubuntu). "cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2" reports "Mitigation: LFENCE, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling" (on this Ryzen 7 1800X), so it seems the kernel has not been compiled with a retpoline-aware compiler
[09:04] <apw> tomreyn, that would be supprising, i am relativly sure that bionic was current when spectre was first in the frame, and it got retpolines added.  i am fairly sure the kernel won't compile if retpoline is not available as it always builds those as alternatives.
[09:06] <tomreyn> apw: do you have any means to check this on your end, or is there a good test i could do?
[09:07] <tomreyn> i guess i could boot a current 18.04 installer iso
[09:08] <apw> tomreyn, a good question.  though i had the feeling that we don't expect retpoline turned on in the default case do we?  where you have ibrs it is assume good enough if you have user-bpf turned off.  but if you are more paranoid you can select ibrs+retpoline
[09:09] <apw> as no other gadgets are known but that does not mean they are not present.
[09:10] <tomreyn> i don't have IBRS either, though, just LFENCE
[09:11] <apw> yeah sorry, lfence+retpoline for amd
[09:17] <tomreyn> apw: a Debian 11.2 running Linux 5.10.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.92-1 (2022-01-18) x86_64 (on EPYC 7351P) *does* have "Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling"
[09:17] <tomreyn> so i was assuming ubuntu would default to this as well
[09:18] <tomreyn> newer kernel there, though, different cpu (though roughly the same generation)
[09:18] <apw> tomreyn, you can tell if it is availble by selecting spectre_v2=retpoline,lfence by my reading.
[09:22] <apw> tomreyn, the CVE you quote there is the original spectre issue, and that is mean to be mitigated by just lfence, right?  obviously time has moved on and the new issues exposed by CVE-2022-0001 change the equation for some people.
[09:24] <SvenKieske> tomreyn: sorry was hung up in some other kernel sec bugs.. I got: "cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2" reports "Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: always-on, RSB filling" on a "AMD EPYC 7713P 64-Core Processor" with kernel: 5.4.0-97-generic
[09:27] <tomreyn> SvenKieske: which gcc was this built with, which ubuntu version is it?
[09:27] <apw> tomreyn, i should say just lfence, assuming you have appropriate cpu-firmware loaded.
[09:28] <tomreyn> apw: yes, the info CVE page is basically irrelevant by now for current HWE on 18.04
[09:28] <SvenKieske> apw|tomreyn: the performance impact is one thing; I'm a bit more worried about retpoline also not being as effective as IBRS? that's what I read from the kernel docs, but they are also not very clear: "For a full mitigation against BHB attacks, it’s recommended to use retpolines (or eIBRS combined with retpolines)."
[09:30] <tomreyn> in case it's of any use, here's spectre-meldown-checker output: https://termbin.com/22op , with --verbose: https://termbin.com/n1e2 , with --explain: https://termbin.com/buef6
[09:30] <tomreyn> i'll try booting with the kernel cmdline options apw mentioned
[09:30] <SvenKieske> tomreyn: we don't built kernels ourselves anymore (I hope I don't have to go back to those times..) that is linux-hwe-5.4 on ubuntu 18.04 from official ubuntu repositories afaik.
[09:30] <apw> SvenKieske, the CVE update at -104 carried some relaxing of option combinations and allowing manual override for those options.
[09:31] <tomreyn> SvenKieske: thanks.
[09:31] <apw> SvenKieske, specifically allowing selection of eibrs and retpoline for instance.
[09:31] <SvenKieske> apw: a longstanding issue I got with ubuntu btw is, that uname -r does not report ubuntu patchlevels.. always need to parse uname -a, very annoying.. this is running 5.4.0-97-generic #110~18.04
[09:32] <SvenKieske> we also go with stock kernel cmd line atm (except for our ceph clusters), well not really true, we have hugepages and stuff enabled, but no custom mitigation flags currently
[09:33] <apw> SvenKieske, that is an interaction with kmod which uses uname -r to find the modules.  that said now that we have to alway bump abi (for secureboot and signed modules) we could change the form of uname -r more readily.
[09:33] <SvenKieske> for completeness sake, here are the custom kernel options, but they shouldn't interfere here:  no_timer_check nofb nomodeset gfxpayload=text numa_balancing=disable transparent_hugepage=never default_hugepagesz=1GB hugepagesz=1GB
[09:34] <SvenKieske> apw: makes sense, many scripts use the short kernel versions provided via uname -r
[09:34] <SvenKieske> tomreyn: is that spectre checker part of stock ubuntu repos by chance? :)
[09:34] <apw> SvenKieske, as i understand the security position (and i am only on the periphery) it is believed that unless someone finds new gadgets that disabling uBPF avoids the need to enable more (expensive) mitigations in the general case; but this depends on your threat model.
[09:36] <SvenKieske> apw: wasn't there a recent paper that showed that not only unprivileged ebpf was affected? let me dig up a link (I'm also not an expert in C-Programming or Security, just an interested bystander for over 10 years ;) )...
[09:37] <apw> SvenKieske, i believe there are theortically others, i have not see a real one; yet.  but that i think is where the stance of not enabling but making-possible the additional mitigations.
[09:37] <SvenKieske> apw: there you go, a real one ;) https://www.vusec.net/projects/bhi-spectre-bhb/
[09:37] <apw> for this machine right here, none makes any sense.
[09:38] <apw> SvenKieske, that is the eBPF exploit
[09:39] <SvenKieske> to be fair: I didn't read the whole paper, just the abstract and the webpage for mere mortals like me ( I aborted my comp sci studies..)
[09:39] <tomreyn> SvenKieske: no, from their github
[09:39] <apw> SvenKieske, and which is why the security update ensures the default for use BPF is off.
[09:39] <SvenKieske> apw: from the website: "So, is disabling unprivileged eBPF sufficient?" "As hinted in the answer above, we believe this is not the case. However, we believe unprivileged eBPF does  tremendously facilitate speculative execution (and other) attacks."
[09:39] <tomreyn> apw: $ cat /proc/version /proc/cmdline /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2 | nc termbin.com 9999
[09:39] <tomreyn> https://termbin.com/gbhc
[09:40] <apw> SvenKieske, right, but that contention is "we believe" and that is reasonable, as their attack relies on having a cirtain shaped code gadget in kernel mode, to attack the branch buffers.
[09:41] <SvenKieske> apw: ok, granted; I'm afk for a bit..
[09:41] <apw> SvenKieske, and they are saying, they are not convinced there isn't other ways to make one, and they are likely right, but, none is currently known.  so one makes a trade off between actual and possible risk.
[09:43] <apw> SvenKieske, which is why it really comes down to your threat model. on my laptop none of these mitigations make any sense at all; and the 10% or whatever performance cost is not warrentd.  if you run potentially hostile payloads (such as occurs in a cloud) of course the cost is necessary.
[09:45] <tomreyn> apw: you mentioned "assuming you have appropriate cpu-firmware loaded" - i believe this to be the case based on spectre-meltdown-checker v0.44-18-g16f2160 (git head) output:   * CPU microcode is the latest known available version:  YES  (latest version is 0x8001138 dated 2019/02/04 according to builtin firmwares DB v220+i20220208)
[09:45] <apw> tomreyn, right, but for example in your debian test, it might have different loaded.
[09:46] <tomreyn> it loaded with debian defaults there, which could differ from ubuntu defaults
[09:53] <tomreyn> apw: FWIW, jjohansen in -security pointed out that: "Until this last week lfence/jump was amd's recommended mitigation. You could force generic retpoline using the kernel boot parameter spectre_v2=retpoline,generic - see https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/product-security/bulletin/amd-sb-1036
[09:53] <tomreyn> "
[09:54] <tomreyn> however, this adivory does not list Ryzen 1000 series Desktop CPUs (such as this one). which could mean those are not affected, or are not being handled.
[09:54] <tomreyn> maybe those are just EOL.
[09:55] <apw> interesting they say just retpolines, and not retpoline,lfence which is what was known as retpoline,amd ...
[09:55] <tomreyn> "retpolines" (plural 's')?
[09:55] <apw> tomreyn, indeed.
[09:57] <SvenKieske> apw: yeah I should've mentioned my threadmodel (I agree it's important): running a basically public cloud, so untrusted kvm guests in openstack
[09:57] <SvenKieske> always mixing up threads and threats :D
[09:57] <tomreyn> apw: not for me, unless you don't mean it verbatim: curl -s https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/product-security/bulletin/amd-sb-1036 | grep -i retpolines
[10:00] <apw> tomreyn, they say retpoline,generic which is retpolines only, not their own ,amd variant.  this seems odd, given it exists for a reason.
[10:01] <tomreyn> ok, got you now.
[10:01] <SvenKieske> I can run the spectre checker on the above amd epyc, if it helps?
[10:02] <tomreyn> SvenKieske: we've already seen that yours has retpoline enabled, so i don't think it helps us
[10:02] <tomreyn> "Full AMD retpoline" specifically
[10:03] <SvenKieske> okay
[10:04] <SvenKieske> the bottomline for me is: I want to make sure I can run untrusted guests, to the best current knowledge, safely. the cherry on top would be if it would be more performant, does anybody has seen performance comparisons between retpoline and IBRS?
[10:05] <tomreyn> i think phoronix had some for amd
[10:05] <SvenKieske> one thing I don't get is, why I have "IBRS_FW" but not "IBRS"; I mean, okay, I know why I don't got IBRS, but how can IBRS_FW work without IBRS?
[10:07] <SvenKieske> tomreyn: right, I read it at the time, if anyone wants to reread: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3-years-specmelt&num=1
[10:08] <SvenKieske> there is also a new performance comparison, but only intel so far for the new mitigations against the above mentioned vusec paper: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=spectre-bhi-retpoline&num=2
[10:15] <tomreyn> apw: so i rebooted again, this time with spectre_v2=retpoline,generic , and got "Mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling"
[10:16] <tomreyn> which i guess is better than LFENCE, worse than "Full AMD retpoline", if i'm getting this right
[11:54] <apw> tomreyn, at least you know it has retpolines in it; which is what we expected.
[12:02] <tomreyn> now, with the non default cmdline, it does, yes. :)
[12:03] <tomreyn> thanks for your help in figuring it out, apw.
[12:04] <apw> tomreyn, np.
[13:49] <SvenKieske> to update you guys: we in fact are already using the ubuntu cloud archive to get updated packages, but the package list was frozen due to internal organzational challenges, so the IBRS problem will be resolved once we can update our docker images, thanks!


[09:46] <mimecar> good morning
[10:09] <Flohack> dobey: Hi this is Florian they guy lots of backup questions ;)
[10:10] <Flohack> dobey: progress report, I´ve managed to get a Nexus 5 backup device, flashed it with current OTA and restored all data to the phone ;)
[10:10] <Flohack> dobey: So I can say, a restore is nearly 100% possible, with a few BUT´s...
[10:11] <Flohack> dobey: Some applications seem to not expect a restore. Google Calendar does not start (or is it a Nexus issue?). The media gallery does not provide any thumbnails, also not for new pictures, this is weird
[11:18] <mimecar> join #innerzaurus
[11:18] <mimecar> sorry
[13:32] <gihel> hello, battery seems to drain faster with ota 12, any reason ?
[19:10] <DPA> Hi, is there a way to change the time to utc time in ubuntu touch? I can set it to other time zones, but not UTC...
[20:48] <mediaone> ondra help!
[20:57] <mediaone> Garret ru thr?
[21:12] <KALASH> is this a channel for nigger child touchers idk what ubuntu-touch is
[21:38] <mediaone> can anybody help me with rebuilding an ubuntu.img
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[22:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone about?


[21:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4602 DONE queue (impish/suricata). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (impish/snapd, impish/systemd). Successfully built (impish/linux-raspi-unstable, impish/linux-unstable)


[01:34] <belkinsa> So, what will be the plan after the OLF in the team?
[02:05] <BiosElement> ^good question /hasnoclue
[02:09] <belkinsa> Also, I will ask this on the mailing-list.
[02:56] <drkokandy> I didn't actually crowd around after the talk thafreak lol
[02:57] <belkinsa> Had a good time?
[02:57] <drkokandy> yes, thanks!
[02:58] <belkinsa> Now, it really makes me want to go.
[02:58] <belkinsa> Next year, I gues.s
[02:58] <drkokandy> You should go next year - I've been to the last two, and since I was still quite new to Linux last year, it was a big help and eye-opener
[02:59] <belkinsa> Yeah, though I think I need to find folks to meet down in the Greater Cinci area to meet first.
[03:02] <drkokandy> There's a general (not Ubuntu-specific) Linux Users Group in Cincinnati - http://clug.org/ - I don't know anything about them, but I've been attending meetings at the Akron LUG when I can just for some extra info and meeting other local FOSS enthusiasts
[03:02] <jenni> [ Cincinnati Linux User Group ] - https://j.mp/165Fldv
[03:02] <belkinsa> Thanks, I wilook into it
[03:03] <drkokandy> I think there was also a Documentation conference in Cincinnati... not sure if that is an annual thing or just one time
[03:04] <belkinsa> I might also look around on UC's main campus.  I'm a student.
[03:04] <drkokandy> woah, paultag... this XMir stuff is pretty scary
[03:04] <drkokandy> that would work too I bet
[03:05] <belkinsa> Yeah, but I need to stop hiding in the Tower studying for my classes.  :)
[03:05] <paultag> drkokandy: :)
[03:05] <Unit193> drkokandy: Tried it, not my favorite bug.
[03:06] <drkokandy> makes me not want to try it. They have to plan to resolve this before 13.10 release, right?
[03:07] <Unit193> Yep, but they've generally fallen behind schedule.  19th is when they plan to ship it in the daily images.
[03:08] <paultag> but jono was pushing people to use this shit
[03:08] <paultag> and they knew it was buggy in this way
[03:08] <paultag> I don't get it
[03:08] <Unit193> It's a PR stunt, he's a PR man, do the math.  He was pushing for it at the Xubuntu meeting couple months back, not giving a ton of real info either.
[03:10] <drkokandy> he was running it on the machine he was using to present from... fortunately he never opened a terminal. Unfortunately we did have one "Ubuntu 13.10 has experienced an error..."
[03:11] <Unit193> Ctrl+Alt+F1 isn't common in presentations. ;)
[03:11] <drkokandy> well, right
[03:13] <paultag> but it is if your xmir locks up
[03:13] <Unit193> drkokandy: It's fine to try, just not great to use.  The other fun bug was when you shutdown, it'd show you everything typed in the session on screen.  Lots of work to do
[03:15] <Unit193> That one is fixed.
[03:15] <drkokandy> oh, well that's good
[03:16] <Unit193> I link the video of it "working" yet?
[03:20] <Unit193> Anyway, it's not just security issues, compatibility as well.
[03:23] <drkokandy> yeah, we'll see
[03:26] <Unit193> It's easy to remove if you use Ubuntu, if you use a flavor it doesn't matter.
[03:27] <belkinsa> Skellat: Thanks for updating the wiki page about the ReLoCo's.
[04:18] <BiosElement> Heh, apparently bugs in unreleased beta software are capital crimes, but bugs in released software in dozens of distros aren't bugs. ;P Gotta love the logic.
[04:22] <paultag> BiosElement: Um?
[04:23] <paultag> BiosElement: a *severe* security issue like this isn't really something that you'd ever see in any other software
[04:23] <paultag> BiosElement: in addition, when you have a *severe* issue like this, you don't get people to *run* it
[04:23] <paultag> (gotta love that logic?)
[04:23] <paultag> Right, time to head out. Clown love.
[04:27] <BiosElement> ...right. Apparently I have different standards for beta software.


[06:22] <ducasse> nacc: fyi, someone else had the exact same snap problem a few days ago, but with a different snap. same error, afaicr.
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> gnome system settings after update: http://imgur.com/a/WiCHa
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> nice job!
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> can anyone confirm/reproduce this chromium have a screen glitch/disformed icon on docksize 36: http://imgur.com/a/JE6Iu
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> artful gnome
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> nvm fixxed
[17:33] <roasted> am I crazy or is 17.10 currently on Firefox 50 in the repos?
[17:36] <brainwash> that's right
[17:37] <brainwash> bug 1715030
[17:38] <roasted> got it. thanks. :)
[21:05] <AndrzejL> Ladles and Jellyspoons
[21:05] <AndrzejL> I have installed Ubuntu 17.10 on macmini 2009 and I have a slight issue with mouse focus
[21:06] <AndrzejL> i removed nouveau and replaced it with nvidia 340
[21:06] <AndrzejL> however the issue existed with the nouveau as well
[21:38] <AndrzejL> if anyone has any ideas please hilight me :)


[13:21] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[13:39] <lazypower> o/
[15:01] <ssweeny> lazypower, are we still on for 12 or did you need to reschedule?
[15:01] <lazypower> ssweeny still on
[15:01] <lazypower> i'll have ot attend a call briefly while we're @ lunch
[15:01] <ssweeny> cool
[15:01] <lazypower> but nbd, should be short
[15:01] <lazypower> last isv integration call of the year :)
[15:02] <ssweeny> nice
[15:26] <lazypower> ssweeny oh yeah i just made the reservation for canonical @ noon
[15:26]  * lazypower has been running around absentmindedly all week
[15:30] <ssweeny> lazypower, no worries