 Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but im looking for a small Linux Server e.g. http://zareason.com/shop/Breeze-Server-5880s.html that i can buy in SA. Do you know of any local retailers? Thanks.
[09:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> I'm not getting what's so special about that server?
[09:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> Looks like any old pc really
[09:59] <stickyboy> Anyone ever been to Sudan?
[10:05] <inetpro> wb CuttingEdge
[10:05] <CuttingEdge> ta
[10:05] <Kilos> CuttingEdge  wb
[10:05] <Kilos> you got lost in action
[10:23] <qwebirc69408> Nothing special at all really... Just want to know where I can get one in SA (Seems kind of standard to me but can't seem so find :)
[10:24] <arnaudmez> hi Kilos
[10:24] <arnaudmez> hi nuvolari
[10:24] <Kilos> hi arnaudmez
[10:24] <arnaudmez> hi inetpro
[10:24] <arnaudmez> hi Squirm
[10:27] <Kilos> Maaz  google  breeze server 5880s for sale in south africa
[10:27] <Maaz> Kilos: "Tower Servers - For sale South Africa - Special Deals - FirstShop" http://www.firstshop.co.za/tower-servers-c-90 :: "HP® South Africa | Laptop Computers, Desktops , Printers, Servers ..." http://www8.hp.com/za/en/home.html :: "IBM Products - South Africa" http://www.ibm.com/products/za/en/ :: "Dell homepage - Computers, notebook PCs, printers, servers, and
[10:27] <Maaz> ..." http://www.dell.co.za/ :: "Dedicated Server Hosting | Web Server South Africa | Mic…
[10:33] <qwebirc69408> Thank you :)
[10:33] <Kilos> does that help qwebirc69408  ?
[10:34] <Kilos> i see you are here from our site
[10:34] <Kilos> you can get here directly with an irc client installed
[10:41] <qwebirc69408> I'm browsing now.. I can't seem to find a low-end server with wireless network adapter (Needing to make an Access Point)
[10:47] <Kilos> i dont know anything about servers but cant you add a wifi adapter afterward?
[10:52] <qwebirc69408> Ya, For sure, But I'm wanting to get a product with everything in one package because I am looking to buy in bulk in the future...
[10:52] <Kilos> ok
[10:52] <Kilos> just hang around here, maybe someone will have an idea for you
[11:00] <gremble> I am reasonably sure that servers don't come with wifi-adapters as standard
[11:01] <gremble> Because the network speed of wifi is much too low for general server use (hosting data, applications etc)
[11:29] <qwebirc69408> Oh, I seee - That does make sense, Although all access to the server will be through wifi anyway so there would need to be a good wireless adapter at some point. Would you recommend having a seperate wireless router?
[11:33] <gremble> That would probably be your best bet, but I am no networking expert. I don't know what technologies are available. I suspect that it would make even more sense to get a switch so that you can have both wireless and wired facilities available in a secure way.
[11:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> don't make servers be network equipment
[11:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> if you want a wireless AP, use a wireless AP
[13:04] <Kilos> oh my , meeting missed
[17:15] <inetpro> good evening
[17:23] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[18:07] <inetpro> hi Kilos
[18:07] <inetpro> where's everybody today?
[18:07] <Kilos> i dunno
[18:09] <inetpro> Kilos: did you miss your meeting today?
[18:09] <Kilos> yip
[18:10]  * Kilos ashamed
[18:10] <inetpro> ai!
[18:10]  * inetpro spying on him :-)
[18:10] <Kilos> but so did everyone else
[18:10] <inetpro> let me help you just another step further
[18:10] <inetpro> go to https://www.google.com/calendar/
[18:10] <Kilos> poor 2 new guys gotta wait 2 more weeks
[18:11] <inetpro> Kilos: do you see the calendar there?
[18:11] <Kilos> yes
[18:12] <Kilos> funny looking calender
[18:12] <inetpro> just hang on while I link the fridge's calendar to my calendar
[18:12] <Kilos> oh my
[18:12] <Kilos> we gonna break the fridge
[18:14] <inetpro> ok, let's just make 100% sure
[18:14] <inetpro> you see that there's supposed to be a meeting now?
[18:14] <Kilos> i see a red line
[18:14] <inetpro> Kilos: ?
[18:15] <inetpro> yes, and?
[18:15] <Kilos> patience man
[18:15] <Kilos> and a little red triangle
[18:15] <inetpro> no... not that
[18:15] <inetpro> ok, looks like we have linked the fridge's calendar here yet
[18:16] <inetpro> go to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
[18:16] <Kilos> ok
[18:16] <inetpro> look at the bottom left, see ICAL XML HTML?
[18:17] <Kilos> yes
[18:17] <inetpro> now look on the right hand side, see "+Google Calendar"?
[18:17] <Kilos> we did ical with thunderbird right?
[18:17] <inetpro> yes
[18:18] <Kilos> yes i see that
[18:18] <inetpro> click on "+Google Calendar"
[18:18] <inetpro> now go back to https://www.google.com/calendar/
[18:18] <Kilos> hee hee
[18:18] <Kilos> i did
[18:18] <Kilos> its there
[18:19] <inetpro> cool
[18:19] <inetpro> now, next step
[18:19] <Kilos> ok
[18:20] <inetpro> on the left side under Other Calendars you see the new calendar?
[18:20] <Kilos> no
[18:20] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:20] <Kilos> i see my calenders and other calenders
[18:21] <inetpro> what do you see on the left?
[18:21] <inetpro> click on other calendars
[18:21] <Kilos> i ticked the arrow next to it and see
[18:21] <inetpro> now click on the little triangle to the right of the calendar's name
[18:21] <Kilos> holidays in za and fridge calender
[18:22] <inetpro> fridge calendar
[18:22] <inetpro> click on the little triangle to the right of the fridge calendar
[18:23] <Kilos> yes
[18:23] <inetpro> you see multiple options
[18:23] <Kilos> lots ya
[18:23] <inetpro> click on edit notifications
[18:23] <Kilos> ok
[18:23] <inetpro> it says, "No notifications set"
[18:24] <inetpro>
[18:24] <inetpro> click on "Add a notification"
[18:24] <Kilos> yes
[18:24] <inetpro> choose Email
[18:25] <inetpro> and choose 1 days before the event
[18:25] <inetpro> then click save at the top or at the bottom
[18:25] <Kilos> wiat a bit
[18:26]  * inetpro waits
[18:26] <Kilos> i ticked popups 30 mins and 10 mins before as well as email
[18:27] <Kilos> is that ok
[18:27] <inetpro> well
[18:27] <inetpro> popup will only help if
[18:27] <Kilos> im here ya
[18:28] <inetpro> popup will only help if you are on the calendar
[18:28] <Kilos> oh
[18:28] <inetpro> not very useful
[18:28] <inetpro> unless
[18:28] <Kilos> will the email still come?
[18:28] <Kilos> uh oh
[18:28] <inetpro> unless you have a mobile phone that is also linked to your google calendar
[18:29] <Kilos> no i dont carry a fone around
[18:29] <inetpro> linking the phone is actually very useful
[18:29] <Kilos> if you carry it ya
[18:29] <inetpro> exactly
[18:30] <Kilos> i work with sheep and forests so not good to carry fone
[18:30] <inetpro> ai!
[18:30] <Kilos> im half way through that forest of those thorn trees
[18:30] <inetpro> modern farmers all have a phone with them these days
[18:30] <Kilos> ya but they have labourers
[18:30] <Kilos> i have me
[18:31] <inetpro> even my gardener carries a phone with him
[18:31] <Kilos> lolol
[18:31] <inetpro> and he even send me a whatsapp message when he needs something
[18:31] <Kilos> half the time my fones battery is flat
[18:31] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:31] <Kilos> they too clever
[18:32] <inetpro> no, you don't need to be clever... it is very easy to use these days
[18:32] <Kilos> i really dislike whatsapping
[18:33] <inetpro> don't worry, that makes two of us
[18:33]  * inetpro also don't likes google
[18:33] <Kilos> one day when im big ill buy a buntu fone and irc on it
[18:33] <inetpro> but I use them
[18:34] <Kilos> i did too to chat to boet in dubai but only till i got him onto mxit
[18:34] <inetpro> ai!
[18:34] <inetpro> mixit is even worse
[18:34] <Kilos> he is on a course in switzerland now
[18:34] <Kilos> mxit pidgin be very lekker
[18:34] <inetpro> they are all abusing their powers to fool their users into believing that it's the only option
[18:35] <Kilos> thats what i use with tara and ian and debs
[18:36] <inetpro> we used IM on open source technologies long before google even started it
[18:36] <Kilos> oh i wanted to ask you
[18:36] <inetpro> and before mixit came to live
[18:36] <Kilos> where is your site? and blog?
[18:36] <inetpro> life*
[18:36]  * inetpro gave up on maintaining his blog long ago
[18:37] <Kilos> and your site?
[18:37] <inetpro> what is that?
[18:37]  * inetpro don't really need a site
[18:37] <Kilos> one of those things you made me do remember
[18:38] <Kilos> hi qwebirc9738
[18:38] <Kilos> you like our site?
[18:38]  * inetpro don't want to be famous
[18:38] <Kilos> nor me
[18:38] <inetpro> ai!
[18:39] <Kilos> i just want peeps to say hey you remember that old fool that drove us nuts
[18:39] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[18:39] <Kilos> hi williamk  wb
[18:40] <inetpro> wb williamk
[18:40] <williamk> Hi Kilos, all
[18:40] <Kilos> hows things by you williamk
[18:41] <williamk> Not to bad, sorry I missed the last meet up
[18:41] <inetpro> Kilos: actually I made a mistake
[18:41] <inetpro> you should rather set this: Daily agenda: Receive an email with your agenda every day at 05:00 in your current time zone.
[18:41] <Kilos> its ok we got one next tuesday again
[18:42] <Kilos> ai! inetpro
[18:42] <inetpro> Kilos: it's on the same page
[18:43] <Kilos> i see it
[18:43] <Kilos> but every day?
[18:43] <inetpro> if there's no meeting it will not send anything
[18:43] <inetpro> but it is useful, you'll see
[18:43] <Kilos> why dont you put our meets on the fridge too
[18:43] <Kilos> ok ill do it
[18:44] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:44] <inetpro> I think we used to have it there
[18:44] <Kilos> fix it
[18:44] <inetpro> or maybe it was on its own
[18:44] <inetpro> can't remember
[18:45] <inetpro> think it was when drubin was still active here
[18:45] <Kilos> is that all buntu stuff or locos meets too
[18:45] <inetpro> part of the job of ubuntu official members
[18:45] <Kilos> oh we dont have any
[18:45] <Kilos> yay
[18:45] <inetpro> haha
[18:46] <Kilos> williamk  did you want to know anything?
[18:46] <inetpro> now when do we talk about and vote for our next chair?
[18:46] <Kilos> you got it in the list
[18:47] <Kilos> so i dunno
[18:47] <inetpro> I see people are very busy these days... everyone ignoring emails
[18:47] <Kilos> yes
[18:47] <inetpro> maybe just ignoring me :-)
[18:47] <Kilos> lol like you do to me
[18:47] <inetpro> ai!
[18:47] <williamk> Kilos, no just would like to attend this more
[18:47] <Kilos> jou beurt is jou beurt
[18:48] <Kilos> williamk  set it so that youre here all the time
[18:48] <Kilos> then set it to show afk
[18:49] <Kilos> so only when you at the pc peeps will see you active
[18:49] <inetpro> can we call for a quick adhoc meeting tomorrow evening?
[18:49] <inetpro> or Friday
[18:49] <inetpro> or Saturday
[18:49] <Kilos> how many do you need for a quorum
[18:49] <Kilos> now is good
[18:50] <Kilos> or you can send another mail out
[18:50] <inetpro> it's better to give at least a day's notice
[18:50] <Kilos> saturday night or friday night
[18:50] <inetpro> some people get only the daily mail
[18:50] <Kilos> ya and some a weekly digest hing
[18:51] <inetpro> serious?
[18:51] <Kilos> lol someone told me to do that way back when i started here
[18:51] <Kilos> whew
[18:51] <Kilos> one massive pile on friday i think it was
[18:52] <Kilos> now i read and delete mails every hour about
[18:57] <Mopkop> Good evening!
[18:57] <Kilos> hi Mopkop
[18:58] <williamk> Hi Mopkop
[18:58] <Mopkop> Sorry I have been absent. Had some church stuff to take care of.
[18:58] <Mopkop> What did I miss?
[18:58] <Kilos> um
[18:58] <Kilos> ask inetpro
[18:59] <Mopkop> Did Inet find a chairperson yet?
[18:59] <inetpro> um... kilo?
[18:59] <Mopkop> For the meating I mean.
[18:59] <Kilos> nope dont you see the mail?
[18:59] <inetpro> ask inetpro?
[18:59] <Kilos> haha
[18:59] <Mopkop> Kilos: Yes, I do that is why I am asking.
[19:00] <Kilos> we want guys to step forward i think then he wants us to vote
[19:00] <Kilos> inetpro  tell him
[19:00] <Kilos> inetpro  <Mopkop> What did I miss?
[19:01] <inetpro> Kilos:  Set Digest Mode means, " If you turn digest mode on, you'll get posts bundled together (usually one per day but possibly more on busy lists), instead of singly when they're sent. If digest mode is changed from on to off, you may receive one last digest. "
[19:02] <Kilos> thats no good
[19:02] <inetpro> Kilos: I want us to do it the right way
[19:02] <Kilos> yes inetpro  thats why i said please tell him what you want to do
[19:03] <inetpro> Kilos: it is up to the mailing list administrator to set the frequency
[19:03] <Kilos> oh on the calender thig
[19:03] <Kilos> thing
[19:03] <inetpro> Mopkop: nobody has responded to my email yet
[19:04] <inetpro> if nobody responds by tomorrow I will call for a meeting
[19:04] <Kilos> ok
[19:04] <inetpro> but I was saying earlier we should at least give a day or two notice
[19:04] <Kilos> yes
[19:05] <Kilos> your first mail went out 2 days ago but take it from today, thats ok too
[19:05] <inetpro> because some people subscribe and set divery to digest mode
[19:05] <inetpro> delivery*
[19:05] <Kilos> peeps dont read mails anymore
[19:06] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:06] <inetpro> Kilos: why the rush?
[19:06] <Kilos> why not set a meet here for sat if no one answers
[19:06] <Kilos> well tomorrow is thursday
[19:07] <inetpro> I don't mind Saturday, then you can have it without me :-)
[19:07] <Kilos> dont leave till tomorrow what you can do today
[19:07] <Kilos> oh no thats no good
[19:07] <inetpro> haha
[19:07] <Kilos> i propose you for chair
[19:07] <inetpro> sorry oom... have something happening on Saturday
[19:07] <Kilos> must i vote via mail?
[19:08] <inetpro> Kilos: you are welcome to vote via email, maybe that will trigger the conversation
[19:09] <Kilos> is that how its done
[19:10] <inetpro> ai! :-)
[19:10] <Kilos> what?
[19:10] <inetpro> good enough for me
[19:10] <Kilos> williamk  you come here to mix with the nutcases
[19:10] <Kilos> thats how we vote
[19:11] <Kilos> +1 0 -1
[19:11] <inetpro> Kilos: of all the peeps here you should know that we have no rules set in stone here
[19:11] <inetpro> only inetpro's rules count
[19:11] <Kilos> ya often life changes things
[19:12] <Kilos> rules are made to be broken
[19:13] <inetpro> Mopkop: you still here?
[19:14] <Mopkop> inetpro: Yes, I'm here :)
[19:14] <Mopkop> Where is the agenda again?
[19:14] <Kilos> in the topic bar
[19:15] <Mopkop> Kilos: Got it. Thank You!
[19:15] <Kilos> yw
[19:15] <Kilos> minutes also used to be there
[19:17] <Kilos> i dunno where they are now
[19:17] <Mopkop> I like how the leadership on here is always trying to get other people to take initiative. That is how they teach us at Uni how church leaders should be :)
[19:17] <Kilos> ask the guy that sets the rules
[19:18] <Kilos> thats how i became bald
[19:18] <Mopkop> Kilos: There is a link in the Agenda, I think.
[19:18] <Mopkop> lol
[19:19] <inetpro> as easy as that
[19:19] <williamk> Ki;os, don't mind the nutcases, as long as it works
[19:20] <Kilos> lol
[19:20] <gremble> o/
[19:20] <Kilos> hi gremble
[19:20] <inetpro> williamk: are you calling us nutcases?
[19:20] <Kilos> rofl
[19:20] <inetpro> ai!
[19:20] <inetpro> wb gremble
[19:21] <Kilos> peeps are missing here
[19:21] <Kilos> Maaz  seen zarw
[19:21] <Maaz> Kilos: zarw was last seen 1 year, 9 months, 22 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes and 19 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-08-06 10:04:08 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2015-05-17 23:49:31 PDT
[19:21] <Kilos> Maaz  seen wraz
[19:21] <Maaz> Kilos: wraz was last seen 24 days, 23 hours, 44 minutes and 46 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2015-04-25 12:36:56 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2015-05-12 15:51:25 PDT
[19:22] <Kilos> hmm...
[19:22] <williamk> inetpro first sign is denial
[19:22] <Kilos> hahaha
[19:22] <inetpro> obviously
[19:23] <gremble> If both a sane and an insane person would say that they are sane, then asking them is obviously not a good sanity test
[19:24] <Kilos> hi spinza
[19:24] <Kilos> you still alive?
[19:25] <inetpro> gremble: did you see my tweet about, "The Fascinating Math of How Wrinkles Form"
[19:25] <gremble> I did. I didn't look at it yet
[19:26]  * inetpro was thinking about gremble when seeing that
[19:26] <gremble> It is not about skin wrinkles though?
[19:26] <inetpro> it's about maths
[19:27] <Kilos> inetpro  thank you for the help with calender reminders
[19:27] <inetpro> Kilos: it's a pleasure oom
[19:27] <inetpro> hope it works for you
[19:27] <Kilos> i nearly forgot to ty then youd sulk for a week
[19:28]  * Kilos hides
[19:28] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:28] <inetpro> really?
[19:28]  * Kilos is not here
[19:29] <inetpro> oh ofcourse, he's on the moon
[19:29]  * inetpro just posted it here for the man on the moon
[19:30] <Kilos> hmm...
[19:31] <Kilos> 4 new members on the 4th
[19:31] <Kilos> at midnight
[19:31] <Kilos> sigh
[19:32] <inetpro> nice!
[19:32] <gremble> That article was quite interesting
[19:34] <Kilos> williamk  whats news with the book project
[19:34] <inetpro> oh gremble, before I forget again... I wanted to know, why did you remove your wiki page?
[19:39] <williamk> Kilos Jacques set up Booktype ( http://<IP_ADDRESS>/ ), people must start using/learning it
[19:39] <williamk> Booktype manual : http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-20-for-authors-and-publishers/what-is-booktype/
[19:40] <Kilos> oh no one started yet?
[19:40] <Kilos> jacques hasnt been  here this week i think'
[19:41] <Kilos> Maaz  seen jacques_stry
[19:41] <Maaz> Kilos: jacques_stry was last seen 2 days, 13 hours, 59 minutes and 50 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2015-05-17 22:41:22 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2015-05-18 06:20:56 PDT
[19:41] <williamk> just 4 people registered
[19:41] <Kilos> maybe try advertise it more
[19:42] <Kilos> tell all you lug peeps to tweet it and fb it
[19:43] <inetpro> Kilos: oh wow!
[19:43] <Kilos> s/you/your
[19:43] <Kilos> what?
[19:43]  * inetpro only went to read the meeting logs now
[19:43] <Kilos> and?
[19:43] <gremble> inetpro: it served no purpose other than being an additional page with irrelevant information. Also, I like to remember where I serve my personal info and limit such activities as much as possible.
[19:43] <inetpro> most of the membership board forgot?
[19:44] <Kilos> all of them
[19:44] <inetpro> gremble: hmm...
[19:44] <Kilos> dholbach mailed us after time was over
[19:44] <inetpro> I understand
[19:44] <Kilos> bad show
[19:44] <inetpro> gremble: but I still think you would be an excellent candidate for membership
[19:45] <gremble> inetpro: besides for the fact that I don't like/use ubuntu? :P
[19:45] <inetpro> ai!
[19:45] <inetpro> Kilos: kick him
[19:45] <inetpro> oops...
[19:45] <Kilos> he uses linux
[19:46] <inetpro> no don't kick him
[19:46] <Kilos> lol
[19:47] <inetpro> makes for some very interesting conversations here
[19:47] <Kilos> lol
[19:47] <gremble> Did any of the network people ending up helping the guy that wanted a wifi server?
[19:48]  * inetpro missed it
[19:48] <inetpro> no idea
[19:48] <gremble> Oh he was just told to make a wireless AP
[19:48] <Kilos> apart from you some gave ideas gremble
[19:50] <gremble> Anyone know of SFD this year?
[19:50] <Kilos> pro mentioned something
[19:51] <Kilos> would be cool to have a UH there inetpro
[19:51] <gremble> UH?
[19:52] <Kilos> ubuntu hour
[19:52] <gremble> If it is anything like last years, I doubt there will even be an hour
[19:52] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[19:52] <gremble> haha
[19:52] <Kilos> wb Mopkop
[19:52] <inetpro> no need for UH at that event
[19:52] <Kilos> ok
[19:53]  * inetpro wants to try and organise ubuntu freebies for the event
[19:53] <Kilos> what kinda freebies?
[19:53] <gremble> I still have a handfull of stickers from Stallman's visit
[19:53] <gremble> :P
[19:54] <inetpro> Kilos: CD's
[19:54] <Kilos> hi Langjan
[19:54] <Kilos> what broke
[19:54] <Langjan> Hi Kilos
[19:54] <Kilos> haha
[19:54] <Langjan> jy maak my senuweeagtig om te kom hallo se
[19:54] <Langjan> lmga
[19:55] <Kilos> haha nee man ek terg
[19:55] <Langjan> weet ja
[19:55] <Langjan> met tong in die kies
[19:55] <Kilos> hoe gaan dit oom
[19:55] <Langjan> goed dankie en jy?
[19:55] <Kilos> jou vriend was hier vit 10 sekondes
[19:55] <Kilos> goed dankie
[19:56] <Langjan> Ok wanneer was dit?
[19:56] <Kilos> paar dae terug, net in  en uit, niks gese nie
[19:56] <inetpro> Kilos: stuff like this: https://twitter.com/ubuntuza/status/600396205986811905
[19:56] <Langjan> O ja ek het hom net gewys op sy tweede masjien
[19:57] <inetpro> or more like this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFSzvVoWgAMXct3.jpg
[19:57] <Kilos> al twee op buntu nou?
[19:57] <Langjan> ja
[19:57] <Kilos> mooi
[19:58] <inetpro> gremble: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015
[19:58] <Kilos> freebie laptop inetpro
[19:58] <Langjan> I discovered his older machine had the same ddr2 as my laptop so we swapped so he has 2gb and installed ubuntu 14.04 on both, he is very happy thus far
[19:58] <Kilos> great
[19:59] <inetpro> Kilos: ideally this: https://twitter.com/silbs/status/596688284270665730
[19:59] <Langjan> Mine seems to be no change on 1Gb from 2Gb
[19:59] <Kilos> wow
[19:59] <Kilos> is your a faster one
[19:59] <gremble> inetpro: So it hasn't been put on the wiki yet?
[20:00] <Kilos> wow inetpro  get me some too
[20:00] <inetpro> gremble: no
[20:00] <gremble> I hope that someone has started making phonecalls or something at least :P
[20:00] <inetpro> gremble: but I see kmf wants to join our meeting on Tuesday
[20:00] <Kilos> yay
[20:00] <Langjan> Dunno, got it with 1GB memory then upgraded to 2 but cannot see the difference
[20:00] <Kilos> long time no hear from him
[20:00] <inetpro> probably to start the conversation for organising the event
[20:01] <gremble> Fisher, the guy that organised last years' meeting?
[20:01] <inetpro> gremble: yep, https://twitter.com/kmf
[20:01] <Mopkop1> My Pidgin drop die heeltyd...
[20:01] <gremble> I've met him. Nice fellow.
[20:01] <Kilos> well Langjan  as long as you all happy thats good
[20:01] <Mopkop1> Nevermind...
[20:02] <Langjan> Yes he is very happy, like a kid withh a new toy
[20:02] <Kilos> man Mopkop1  kry hexchat
[20:02] <gremble> I don't know if I will make the meeting, but I am pretty keen to help if I can
[20:02] <Kilos> lol
[20:02] <inetpro> gremble: great!
[20:02] <Langjan> OK Kilos  just dropped in to say thanks and all is fine
[20:02] <Mopkop1> Anyway: Good Night everyone! Going to sleep now.
[20:02] <inetpro> Kilos: remind me of his promise :-)
[20:02] <gremble> Last year I was installation support for ArchLinux haha
[20:02] <Kilos> ty Langjan  thoughtful of you. look after yourself
[20:03] <Kilos> inetpro  whose promise
[20:03] <Langjan> Will do thks Kilos  you also
[20:03] <inetpro> oh by the way, welcome back oom Langjan... nice to see you here and sorry for ignoring you
[20:04] <Langjan> No problem inetpro , can see youre busy
[20:04] <Kilos> at least he says sorry to you
[20:04] <inetpro> Kilos: 05/20 22:02:16 <gremble> I don't know if I will make the meeting, but I am pretty keen to help if I can
[20:04] <Kilos> me he ignores and ignores the apology too
[20:04] <Langjan> thks to all who helped me and suiram
[20:04]  * inetpro even missed mopkop saying good night
[20:04] <Kilos> oh ok inetpro
[20:05] <inetpro> struggling to see all conversations
[20:05] <Kilos> you welcome anytime Langjan
[20:05] <Langjan> OK slaap lekker julle jongmanne
[20:05] <Kilos> jy ook dankie oom
[20:05] <inetpro> Langjan: goeie nag oom
[20:05] <Langjan> en nogmaal dankie
[20:06] <Langjan> nag inetpro
[20:06] <inetpro> hoop hy bly gelukkig
[20:06] <inetpro> :-)
[20:06] <Langjan> slaap lekker, dankie
[20:06] <Kilos> :D
[20:06] <Kilos> tough old men, happy with unity
[20:07] <Kilos> sjoe
[20:09] <gremble> I think I am doing Software Carpentry instructor training in August. We could probably host a training event that day :o
[20:12] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:16] <gremble> I think I am also going to do the sleeping thing
[20:16] <gremble> Good night
[21:00] <williamk> Good night all


[08:40] <petski> seb128, already had some time to look at bug 276603 ?
[08:41] <seb128> petski: no, I commented after midnight went to bed and I'm just starting my work day
[08:42] <petski> okay, no rush :)
[08:42] <petski> Good morning :)
[08:43] <seb128> right, there is no rush, good morning or afternoon or evening whatever match your timezone to you ;-)
[08:51] <mvo> hey seb128! did you had a chance to use the patched dpkg in my ppa? any explosions yet from it? I would like to know if it gives you further performance improvements
[08:51] <mvo> (no rush, just curious)
[08:52] <huats> morning everyone
[08:53] <didrocks> hey huats
[08:54] <didrocks> seb128 & mvo & petski as well ;)
[08:55] <petski> morning :)
[08:58] <seb128> mvo: no, I just tried your bzr thing, what is the dpkg update supposed to speed up, the index reading?
[08:58] <seb128> lut didrocks mvo
[08:58] <mvo> seb128: the dpkg update avoids reading the available file for most operation (like unpack/configure). that saves another ~5mb of disk reads
[08:59] <seb128> mvo: ok, will install this one and let you know if it feels faster then ;-)
[08:59] <mvo> seb128: excellent
[09:00] <didrocks> mvo: do you have a Spec for those improvements (just courious, I think you parse /var/lib/dpkg/status et clean old deb?)
[09:01] <mvo> didrocks: I have no spec, but there is some explaination in the script, its pretty simple, just purging stuff that is really old
[09:01] <mvo> (purging not in the dpkg sense, but in the get-it-of-the-file sense)
[09:02] <didrocks> mvo: sorry, I didn't see today where your script was (in your ppa?)
[09:02] <mvo> didrocks: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/%2Bjunk/compact-dpkg-status/annotate/head%3A/compact-dpkg-status
[09:02] <didrocks> mvo: thanks
[09:03] <didrocks> I will take a test tomorrow
[09:03] <mvo> didrocks: I added a system-cleaner plugin for it now too and will make it part of the dist-upgrader I think
[09:03] <mvo> the script is step 1, the dpkg patch step 2
[09:03] <mvo> together performance should be much better indeed
[09:03] <didrocks> mvo: BTW, you might have an answer I keep asking myself.
[09:04] <didrocks> why md5sums of conffiles are not embeeded in the package? It seems to be generated at install time
[09:04] <didrocks> (in the status file and not in the md5sums one)
[09:04] <didrocks> I thought the reason why was if we modify them in postinst, the change will be taken into account
[09:05] <didrocks> but apparently, this is not the case :/
[09:05] <seb128> mvo: do you have an intrepid system handy? or do you use jaunty now?
[09:05] <mvo> seb128: my laptop is still intrepid
[09:05] <didrocks> (I have a meeting now, will be back on a couple of hours)
[09:06] <seb128> mvo: when you have it booted can you test build and sponsor the change on bug #276603? the debdiff is trivial but I've no intrepid box here to do that
[09:07] <seb128> having to keep hardy, intrepid and jaunty installations is no fun, I should set up an intrepid vm or something
[09:08] <mvo> yeah
[09:08] <seb128> thanks
[09:10] <mvo> seb128: building it now
[09:12] <petski> Regarding 276603: Some users already tried a simular dpkg from my PPA with good results
[09:12] <seb128> dpkg?
[09:13] <petski> yeah, package, whatever
[09:13] <mvo> petski: oh, what ppa is that?
[09:13] <mvo> nevermind
[09:13] <huats> hello mvo and seb128
[09:13] <petski> mvo: it's described in the bug comments
[09:13] <mvo> wrong context :)
[09:14] <huats> pitti: sorry to bother you with that. Did you have some time to look at the gcalctool SRU ?
[09:14] <petski> my bad :)
[09:14] <huats> pitti: and hello btw :)
[09:17] <seb128> mvo: your patched dpkg seems to behave fine, I'm on my desktop right now though which has a newer installation than my laptop and a faster disk so I don't notice the slowness that much, I'll try on my laptop too a bit later
[09:20] <mvo> ok, thanks
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: seems to be working ok
[09:31] <seb128> mvo: thanks, so you can do the upload ;)
[09:34] <mvo> ok
[10:01] <mpt> asac, there is no standard mechanism for showing dialog/form errors that I know of
[10:02] <pochu> good morning
[10:02] <pochu> seb128: hi, is anybody doing vinagre 2.25.5?
[10:02] <seb128> pochu: hey, not that I know no, want to do it? ;-)
[10:02] <mpt> asac, Web pages actually tend to do that better than native dialogs do, because they have more room, so they lengthen the page and insert an error saying "hey, you forgot this bit" (Launchpad has primitive examples of these)
[10:02] <pochu> sure :)
[10:04] <mpt> asac, it's fairly common to disable the OK/equivalent button in a dialog until the form values are acceptable, but occasionally it's not obvious why they're unacceptable yet, so the OK button is kept available and when clicked it brings up an annoying error alert explaining the problem
[10:04] <asac> mpt: yeah. but what to do for native form dialogs?
[10:05] <mpt> asac, so as usual the answer is It Depends :-)
[10:05] <mpt> asac, what's the dialog in question?
[10:05] <asac> mpt: network-manager connection editor dialogs
[10:07] <mpt> (That really should be renamed. Text is edited. Connections are not.)
[10:07] <mpt> asac, just the password field? or other fields?
[10:08] <asac> mpt: all kind of fields
[10:08] <asac> fields or even field combinations
[10:08] <asac> e.g. you can select a few checkboxes, but never disable all
[10:09] <asac> hence it was a general question :)
[10:12] <mpt> asac, I'm sorry there isn't a general answer :-)
[10:12] <mpt> It depends on whether it's obvious enough why a set of values is unacceptable without any extra hint
[10:14] <mpt> It would be nice if there was a standard way of highlighting unacceptable form controls (e.g. flashing them pink or putting an error icon in them or something)
[10:15] <mpt> hmmmm
[10:15] <mpt> there could be a little error icon in each unacceptable field, and clicking the icon opens a balloon explaining the exact problem
[10:16] <mpt> so that you don't need to dismiss anything if you can see yourself what the problem is
[10:30] <pochu> seb128: do you know what could be causing bug 321916? I can reproduce it on Jaunty, but not in Debian (both with 2.25.5). Might it be GTK+?
[10:35] <seb128> pochu: no idea about this one
[10:36] <pochu> ok, will ask jwendell
[10:36] <pochu> seb128: bug 322247
[10:37] <seb128> pochu: thanks
[10:37] <pochu> in case you can sponsor it :)
[10:38] <pochu> heh
[10:38] <pochu> evolution's configuration dialog doesn't fit in my VM
[10:48] <seb128> right, that's a known issue for notebooks, etc
[10:57] <seb128> pochu: why do you remove the copying and install now?
[10:58] <pochu> seb128: it was done in the past, but I accidentally removed that code from debian/rules when I splitted vinagre into vinagre-common, and then undo the change
[10:58] <pochu> seb128: lintian complains, and they are not needed at all
[10:58] <seb128> ok
[10:58] <pochu> we have copyright, and you don't INSTALL as it's already installed :)
[10:58] <pochu> don't want
[11:09] <pitti> huats: frankly I don't think we should bother about this too much; intrepid SRUs already take more than appropriate time away from devs..
[11:12] <huats> pitti: ok...
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: not easy to say to users to wait another 3 months to get their issue fixed though, but I agree that this sru is probably not an important one
[11:22] <hggdh> seb128, perhaps we should include a warning about going back to evo 2.24 after upgrading to 2.25.x due to the folders.db issue
[11:23] <hggdh> and the dirty column warning on first run of 2.25.x
[11:25] <seb128> hggdh: there is not so many people downgrading versions but I'll talk to srag about it when he's around before uploading the new version
[11:27] <hggdh> Oh, yes, of course. But, still, a warning on upgrade would be warranted -- all evo users will get the pop-up on upgrading to 2.26
[12:05] <pochu> seb128: thanks for the upload
[12:06] <seb128> pochu: you're welcome
[13:00] <asac> mpt: sorry was on the call. i think the icon is a good thing
[13:01] <asac> mpt: i will try to discuss this with NM upstream a bit.
[13:02] <seb128> Keybuk: is bootchart supposed to work out of the box in jaunty?
[13:02] <asac> mpt: oh ... if you want to provide input on what you want to see changed in applet, it would be a good time to do so now
[13:03] <asac> mpt: we are currently defining things on TODO list and priorities. having suggestions on UI would be good thing
[13:42] <mpt> asac, I would love to help with the design, but I don't understand enough about networking (e.g. what things are mutually exclusive and what aren't, how common each option is)
[13:49] <mpt> asac, I think it needs either a couple of days of solid meetings between designers and networking experts, or alternatively, about six months of equivalent discussion on the mailing list
[13:50] <asac> mpt: ok. so you are not working on it right now?
[13:50] <asac> thats ok too ;) ... i just thought you already worked on that ;)
[13:50] <asac> mvo: can you look at the gobby document again?
[13:50] <asac> mvo: i did some major polishing i hope
[13:51] <asac> and completing stuff
[13:56] <mvo> asac: on the phone right now
[13:56] <asac> mvo: thats ok ;)
[13:57] <mpt> asac, I've done some sketches of improving just the menu
[13:58] <mpt> but if the windows can be sorted out too, that would alter what the menu looks like
[13:58] <asac> mpt: great. its not super urgent, but if we could gather all ideas and drafts for further discussion that would be great.
[13:59] <mpt> asac, will you be able to explain to me all the intricate details of "System setting" and IPv4 routes and simultaneous wired and wireless connections etc?
[14:00] <asac> mpt: i guess so ;)
[14:00] <mpt> ok
[14:00] <mpt> asac, are any of the other NM developers in Berlin or nearby?
[14:00] <asac> if there are open questions at end of day i can certainly find out
[14:01] <asac> not that i know. actually i dont know where tambeti is from. i will ask
[14:02] <mpt> ok, cool
[14:02] <asac> but i doubt he is german
[14:02] <asac> Ingo Tambet
[14:04] <mpt> Estonia, apparently
[14:28] <rickspencer3> tedg: ping
[14:29] <tedg> Morning rickspencer3
[14:29] <tedg> You're up too early!
[14:30] <rickspencer3> not for me :)
[14:30] <rickspencer3> I get up at 6am at the latest, otherwise, I miss everything :(
[14:31] <rickspencer3> tedg: I'm still confused about the power icon stuff. Are you guys going to do work to add more levels of power indication to support a larger icon set?
[14:31] <tedg> rickspencer3: I dont' think so.  I think Ken is just going to change where red begins.
[14:32] <tedg> I haven't talked with him about that directly, but that was my impression from the e-mail.
[14:32] <rickspencer3> so just change the icons for Jaunty, and add all the levels in Jaunty +1?
[14:32] <tedg> rickspencer3: Correct.
[14:32] <rickspencer3> ok
[14:33] <rickspencer3> it seems that upstream would be interested in having the extra levels, even if they don't use them all
[14:33] <tedg> rickspencer3: Uhm, yes and no.  They'd probably be interested if someone would draw the gnome icon theme icons for them :)
[15:11] <rickspencer3> tedg: okay, so I wasn't crazy
[15:11] <dobey> what levels/
[15:12] <tedg> rickspencer3: I wouldn't couple your sanity with the logic of upstreams, that'd be a bad choice :)
[15:12] <tedg> dobey: How many levels of icons are shown by GPM, it's currently 6.  There was some discussion on increasing it to 10 or more.
[15:12] <dobey> it's not like there's much difference you can show in changes for a 16x16 icon :)
[15:13] <tedg> dobey: The issues are more the < 20 icons -- where they could become "more red" even if the line isn't as descriptive.
[15:13] <dobey> tedg: yeah, ken mentioned before about possibly adding more levels to the spec, becuase the kde guys want to show more, though i don't really know if it makes sense
[15:15] <dobey> the gpm icons aren't in gnome-icon-theme anyway, they're shipped in g-p-m and installed in the private icon theme directory, as per the themeable app specific icons instructions on live.gnome.org :)
[15:15] <dobey> though i guess the human theme has them in the theme of course
[15:15] <tedg> Yes, but the theme can override them.
[15:16] <tedg> It's one of those cases where everyone is using those names but they aren't in the icon spec for some unknown reason :)
[15:16] <dobey> well, there are lots of reasons that the majority of those icons aren't in the spec
[15:17] <asac> mvo: on call still ;)?
[15:18] <dobey> one being of course that having lots of copies of the same icon with some small difference for every different type of device that has a battery, is awful
[15:18] <mvo> asac: no, reading now
[15:18] <asac> cool
[15:18] <dobey> and charging vs. discharging is also kind of annoying
[15:19] <tedg> dobey: Then put something better in the spec?  :)   High quality always wins.
[15:19] <dobey> and naming icons foo-000 is awful
[15:20] <dobey> and the people who want such icons in the spec, have generally been not helpful, unwilling to discuss the issues, and just demanding they go in as is
[15:20] <dobey> which of course, just means i will ignore them :)
[15:20] <dobey> i'm all for getting sane battery status icon names in the spec
[15:21] <dobey> but it seems nobody wants to actually discuss the issues and come to some sane compromise for it
[15:21] <mvo> asac: very nice!
[15:21] <asac> mvo: i removed the differentiation of free/non-free
[15:21] <asac> mvo: now its just: * covers important enduser use-case for which a ThirdParty Repository is essential.
[15:22] <mvo> ok
[15:22] <mvo> i noticed
[15:22] <mvo> I think that is good
[15:22] <asac> i tried to give rationals ... not really detailed, but allows us to remember its purpose
[15:22] <asac> i think i will add the same for the other requirement points like package
[15:23]  * mvo nods
[15:23] <asac> mvo: also i made ~ubuntu-archive optional in the process. the approval is done by third party review team
[15:24] <asac> not sure if that would have impact on -archive motivation ... but i guess not
[15:25] <asac> mvo: i think i will leave the bits about technical board out of it ... its the top most instant for everything in ubuntu anyway.
[15:25] <asac> unless you say it should be in there
[15:26] <asac> mvo: in a similar fashion i think its ok not to give explicit instructions how to complain about decisions of -tpr team
[15:26] <tedg> dobey: Propose a sane compromise to XDG and start from there.
[15:26] <asac> mvo: as the TB is always a fallback i guess
[15:26] <tedg> dobey: There is a lot of information there that people want to express in icons.  It'll be difficult without a whole cadre of icons.
[15:27] <dobey> tedg: i don't know what all information people want to express in icons there. i know what battery status is, and i know what the innumerable amount of devices i have, and/or have used, do to display such status to the user
[15:28] <dobey> most of them have 4-5 levels of status
[15:28] <mvo> asac: souns good, also I would like to see ubuntu-archive doing the review, they have some experience with this
[15:28] <dobey> though the 5th tends to be "dead, and the device doesn't turn on"
[15:29] <tedg> dobey: The reason you need that though is that sometimes devices lie about how dead they are :(
[15:30] <dobey> yes, i know
[15:31] <dobey> i have had plenty occasions where a laptop of mine had "30+ minutes" left, and then about 30 seconds later was all like "You have 30 seconds to plug in the AC."
[15:32] <asac> mvo: right. but i think that step shouldnt be mandatory. you probably can also sign off packages that are not too complex. especially if its "just" applications and not libs and so on.
[15:32] <dobey> but saying "you have N% battery left" is entirely useless
[15:33] <dobey> batteries are like snowflakes :)
[15:34] <mvo> asac: right
[15:36] <dobey> tedg: so really, all the battery level icons need to be based on time left, not percent left
[15:37] <tedg> dobey: That's not much better...  and as it gets lower the time gets less accurate, because the models have less information at those lower levels.
[15:37] <mclasen> do the icons say 30% ?
[15:37]  * mclasen doesn't follow
[15:38] <tedg> dobey: What we've discussed is combining them and doing, 100, 80, 60, 40, 20 percent and then 10 min, 5 min, 1 min.
[15:38] <tedg> mclasen: No, but they icons are chosen by percentage.
[15:38] <dobey> tedg: what do you do when 100% ~= 10 minutes for a user then?
[15:39] <Tm_T> interesting debate that was
[15:39] <tedg> dobey: We playing the "laughing hyena" sound.
[15:39] <dobey> lovely
[15:40] <tedg> dobey: With our deal with dell we offer them a deal on a new laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed :)
[15:41] <tedg> I think it's a rare enough case, and in that case the person probably wants the 10 min icon anyway.
[15:44] <dobey> right, but i also want icon names to have meaningful titles for names, not foo-[somenumbers]
[15:47] <pochu> my brother has a lenovo with winxp that has a green battery icon that has the % battery charge, I find it quite useful and easy to read
[15:48] <dobey> yeah, well i don't care if g-p-m has a text label that says NA%/0:05:00 or whatever, next to the icon
[15:56] <Keybuk> seb128: should do
[15:57] <dobey> i just want the icons to be meaningful
[15:57] <seb128> Keybuk: it's working now after reinstalling thanks
[15:57] <seb128> Keybuk: btw did you do a new bootchart yesterday after moving the .desktop to see if you still had the 5 seconds timeout?
[15:59] <Keybuk> I didn't
[15:59] <Keybuk> after putting jaunty back on, the machine won't boot
[15:59] <Keybuk> X hangs/crashes
[15:59] <Keybuk> or all I get is a black screen
[16:06] <rickspencer31> calc: ping
[16:43] <calc> rickspencer3: pong
[16:43] <calc> rickspencer3: whats up?
[16:46] <rickspencer3> calc: Did you have plans in Jaunty to improve the experience for OOo users who request a feature that depends on java when they don't have java installed?
[16:47] <calc> rickspencer3: lots of places that need java don't even give an error box at all, so even if i did hook into some spots it wouldn't catch all of them
[16:48] <calc> pretty much OOo needs Java in general
[16:48] <calc> we just rip it out because it won't fit on the cd
[16:48] <rickspencer3> I saw a proposal to change the errors to a box that provides a button to install java
[16:48] <rickspencer3> calc: ACK why java is not there
[16:49] <calc> yea, that is just one spot that happens to throw an error box
[16:49] <rickspencer3> did you have any thoughts on the button idea?
[16:49] <rickspencer3> are there lots of spots that  throw those?
[16:49] <calc> there are lots of spots that need java, but not all of them (not sure what percentage) even let you know why its not working
[16:50] <calc> i found one spot last night that doesn't work without java and it doesn't indicate any problem at all without java it just doesn't work
[16:50] <rickspencer3> so lots of failing silently
[16:50] <calc> yes
[16:50] <seb128> vuntz: do you also get a speaker beep when using shutdown or reboot in gnome-session?
[16:51] <calc> i'm going to add to the error message that it shows on the terminal to install the ooo-java-common as well
[16:51] <rickspencer3> how much effort would it be to adjust the existing error dialogs to add a button to install java?
[16:51] <calc> i think that part always shows, but only if they run it from the terminal
[16:51] <calc> i'm not sure, since OOo doesn't really use gtk/qt i would have to look into it
[16:52] <vuntz> seb128: not on my laptop, but I still have the 2.24 one
[16:52] <calc> they have their own gui framework just for OOo
[16:52] <seb128> vuntz: ok
[16:52] <rickspencer3> sweet
[16:52] <rickspencer3> I suppose it's a complicate cross platform affair that requires tons of tweaking on each platform anyway? :P
[16:53] <calc> i think the issue is more that OOo is ~ 20 years old
[16:53] <calc> so gtk/qt didn't exist and they don't want to put in the effort at this point to port it
[16:54] <calc> novell is doing some work on getting dialog layout to work despite using vcl (OOo's framework)
[16:54] <calc> but i think that is going to take a long time
[16:55]  * calc hopes he doesn't break suitesparse when he splits it up in a few min :)