[12:01] <ivoks> Amaranth: date --utc
[12:01] <Amaranth> ivoks: i know, i'm just lazy
[12:02] <thesaltydog> dholbach, I have checked with Amaranth too. We need to run upodate-menus and we need the menu file in /usr/lib/menu if we want an entry into the Debian menu.
[12:03] <dholbach> ok ok
[12:03] <dholbach> sorry, i was doing 10 things at once
[12:03] <ogra> erm, wasnt there a dh_menu ?
[12:03] <thesaltydog> dholbach, but I have an open mind. Just tell me your position. (yes I used dj_menu)
[12:03] <thesaltydog> dh_menu
[12:04] <dholbach> thesaltydog: i'm in a meeting at the moment - ok i mail you?
[12:04] <thesaltydog> dholbach, take it easy with your mind... :-)
[12:04] <dholbach> yeah... thank you :)
[12:04] <thesaltydog> dholbach, yes ok for emailing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:04] <thesaltydog> ciao ciao
[12:05] <dholbach> cool
[12:05] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[12:05] <ogra> thesaltydog, or join the meeting :)
[12:05] <ogra> if youre bored ;)
[12:05] <thesaltydog> dholbach, I'm going to sleep. It's midnight here.
[12:05] <ogra> here too
[12:05] <dholbach> here too :)
[12:05] <thesaltydog> but I need to work at 7 tomorrow..
[12:05] <thesaltydog> and I'm very old..:-(
[12:06] <ogra> thesaltydog, i'm 36 ;)
[12:06] <thesaltydog> ogra, you're a baby.. I'm 49!!
[12:06] <ogra> yep, you told me the otherday ;)
[12:07] <thesaltydog> ogra, but still enjoy relaxing with ubuntu..
[12:07] <ogra> :)
[12:07] <\sh> someone who is older then ogra and \sh
[12:07] <\sh> incredible
[12:07] <thesaltydog> ciao to all. Have a nice and profitable meeting.
[12:07] <ogra> thesaltydog, have a nice evening
[12:07] <dholbach> byeeeeeeeee :)
[12:07] <thesaltydog> (tomorrow I have 2 company boards waiting... booooooring!)
[12:35] <\sh> well done DanielN_ sign the CoC and send it to mako
[12:36] <uniq> congrats danieln :)
[12:36] <DanielN_> \sh: i'll do that tomorrow, very tired now
[12:36] <DanielN_> :)
[12:36] <\sh> sleep well dude :)
[12:37] <DanielN_> you too... wann auch immer
[12:37] <DanielN_> ;>
[12:38] <\sh> later this night ;)
[01:18] <dholbach> good night, have a nice evening
[01:18] <ajmitch> hi
[01:21] <SquishyWaffle> Can anyone in here take a look at an update ManEdit package I made and provide some feedback?
[01:27] <SquishyWaffle> ok then...
[01:28] <\sh> SquishyWaffle: later :)
[01:28] <Nafallo> we're all in a meeting ;-)
[01:28] <SquishyWaffle> ah, that's still going? whoops
[01:30] <Unfrgiven> good morning all
[01:31] <ajmitch> hello
[01:32] <tseng> hi
[01:33] <Unfrgiven> after doing an apt-get source <package>, is there any way to apply all the dpatch based patches? so that I can do a test build? ive got a package failing to build atm and i want to see the fully patched source
[01:33] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hey dude
[01:33] <tseng> if you do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[01:33] <tseng> it applies them all
[01:34] <tseng> the results go in debian/patched
[01:34] <tseng> you can see failures in tehre
[01:34] <Unfrgiven> tseng: excellent, thanks
[01:34] <tseng> a patch log at the various levels
[01:34] <tseng> be careful about cleaning/unapplying the tree before starting over with a new patch
[01:35] <tseng> obviously if you change/remove patches and try to unpatch then
[01:35] <Unfrgiven> yep will do.
[01:35] <tseng> you are effed
[01:36] <\sh> Unfrgiven: my best way to work with sources and patches is a chroot
[01:36] <Unfrgiven> \sh: yeah im using a chroot too.
[01:36] <\sh> Unfrgiven: and inside i'm using debuild only to build directly where i need it..and check the patched sources
[02:03] <\sh> ok..guys...time to sleep...g'night
[02:33] <schweeb> yay, after 2 wks stuck in windows hell, I've finally fixed my Ubuntu install
[02:52] <Nafallo> should I be awake to even try to understand how to make new patches with it? :-)
[02:56] <Mez> ew..
[02:58] <Nafallo> jamessan: hehe, I wish ;-). there is probably a reason xfree86 has dbs :-P.
[02:58] <jamessan> pain  :)
[02:58] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:59] <schweeb> the reason xfree86 has anything is "that's how it's always been"
[02:59] <Nafallo> *s*
[02:59] <schweeb> luckily, changes are on their way
[02:59] <Nafallo> and that's how it always should be :-)
[03:00] <Nafallo> hmm, dang. that comment suddenly became out of place :-P
[03:00] <Mez> I asusme if I'm using a breezy chroot - I want ti to be using a breezy apt/sources.list ?
[03:01] <schweeb> yep
[03:01] <Mez> so I'll have to edit that
[03:02] <tseng> Mez: not pbuilder?
[03:02] <Mez> ????@?
[03:02] <schweeb> yea, I always pbuild
[03:02] <tseng> pbuilder > chroot
[03:02] <schweeb> develop in my home directory
[03:02] <schweeb> then pbuild to build
[03:03] <Mez> o_O
[03:03] <tseng> it automatically cleans up after you.
[03:03] <Mez> I'm just folowing https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
[03:03] <tseng> PbuilderHowto
[03:03] <Mez> I've not used pbuild before
[03:04] <Mez> what's the difference?
[03:04] <tseng> < tseng> it automatically cleans up after you.
[03:04] <jamessan> pbuild's cleaner and easier
[03:04] <tseng> it installs the builddeps in the chroot
[03:05] <tseng> and removes them when you are done
[03:05] <Mez> wheras a chroot doenst
[03:05] <Mez> thats pretty sweet
[03:05] <tseng> you just sudo pbuilder foo.dsc
[03:05] <tseng> and it does the rest
[03:06] <Mez> sweet
[03:06] <Mez> so I guess I wipe my chroot that I just built?
[03:06] <jamessan> yup
[03:06] <Nafallo> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc even :-)
[03:07] <tseng> pdebuild doesnt work for me?
[03:07] <tseng> says cant find control
[03:07] <Nafallo> tseng: and you are in the package root-dir?
[03:07] <tseng> yes
[03:08] <Mez> I assume when i edit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
[03:08] <Mez> I just use breezy straight away?>
[03:08] <Nafallo> tseng: always works for me.
[03:08] <Mez>  DISTRIBUTION=breezy
[03:08] <Nafallo> Mez: I had troubles last time I tried that a couple of days ago.
[03:09] <Mez> but if building packages for breezy?
[03:09] <crimsun> don't use breezy directly
[03:10] <Mez> then... how do i use breezy?
[03:10] <Nafallo> Mez: I created hoary and updated to breezy.
[03:10] <crimsun> you must build a hoary pbuilder and dist-upgrade using --override-conf
[03:10] <Mez> build for wary?
[03:10] <Mez> ok
[03:11] <Nafallo> Is there any way I could have multiple pbuilders?
[03:11] <Nafallo> stable + devel
[03:11] <crimsun> yes
[03:12] <crimsun> use different base.tgzs
[03:12] <crimsun> (pbuilder parameter)
[03:12] <Nafallo> crimsun: ahh, thank you _very_ much!
[03:13] <crimsun> np
[03:14] <tseng> bug daniels about dbus
[03:14] <Mez> so basically - if i want to buidl for hoary i use a hoary chroot
[03:14] <Mez> if i want ot build for breezy, use a hoary and then update to breezy
[03:15] <jamessan> s/chroot/pbuild/  :)
[03:15] <Nafallo> tseng: much more fun to bug you :-)
[03:15] <Mez> :P
[03:15] <tseng> well I cant do much about it.
[03:15] <Mez> sorry jamessan  too used to chroot
[03:15] <tseng> well i could
[03:15] <tseng> but it would be rude
[03:15] <Nafallo> tseng: hehehehehe
[03:16] <Nafallo> well
[03:16] <Nafallo> I should sleep
[03:16] <Nafallo> see you all
[03:16] <Nafallo> later today ;-)
[03:22] <tseng> hi
[03:22] <ajmitch> hi tseng
[03:22] <ajmitch> what's new with mono?
[03:22] <tseng> going to upload one now to fix ppc I hope
[03:23] <tseng> then i can get back to apps
[03:25] <tseng> then merge in all the changes from debian
[03:25] <tseng> and maybe rest for awhile
[03:25] <tseng> before a new version of everything hits
[03:25] <ajmitch> there's a few changes again?
[03:26] <tseng> yeah meebey pushed a couple little things int he unstable upload
[03:26] <tseng> and blam, f-spot are updated
[03:26] <ajmitch> right
[03:26] <ajmitch> has anything moved to the desktop seed yet?
[03:26] <tseng> no
[03:26] <tseng> we need to drop mono-jit build-deps across the board
[03:29] <tseng> should it be in the desktop seed?
[03:29] <tseng> im not sure.
[03:29] <tseng> maybe in main now and in desktop for +1
[03:29] <tseng> would make sense
[03:30] <ajmitch> if it does get in, we'll need to arrange for user_xattr to be turned on
[03:30] <tseng> yes
[03:38] <mgalvin> quick question, signing the coc is just the regular gpg --clearsign ... right?
[03:39] <ajmitch> yeah, iirc
[03:39] <mgalvin> thnx
[04:05] <mgalvin> night all
[08:27] <ajmitch> Amaranth: 0.7.5 looks ok to me
[08:27] <Amaranth> w00tage
[08:27] <ajmitch> I'll build & test out :)
[08:27] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:28] <ajmitch> since gnome-menus just had a path change or two, i suspect
[08:28] <Amaranth> wha?
[08:28] <Amaranth> i'll have to backport my lame code for finding the menu file then
[08:28] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I haven't checked gnome-menus
[08:28] <ajmitch> but I just lost all my menu entries until I restarted gnome-panel :)
[08:29] <Amaranth> hehe, nice
[08:29] <Amaranth> at least your panel updates
[08:29] <Amaranth> err, menu
[08:29] <Amaranth> my menu is static until i restart gnome-panel
[08:29] <ajmitch> applications.menu -> gnome-applications.menu
[08:29] <ajmitch> similar for settings.menu
[08:30] <Amaranth> ok, i'll have to release on 0.7.6
[08:30] <ajmitch> ok
[08:30] <ajmitch> check out 06_menus_rename.diff in the latest gnome-menus package
[08:30] <Amaranth> tomorrow though, the code for checking is nasty
[08:30] <Amaranth> yeah, seb consulted me before the change
[08:30] <ajmitch> ah alright
[08:30] <Amaranth> i thought i convinced him to leave it
[08:31] <ajmitch> looks like smeg does need updated, the tree is pretty much empty
[08:32] <Amaranth> well, technically it shouldn't need updated
[08:32] <Amaranth> but gnome-menus sucks wrt the fd.o standard, so i'll have to update it
[08:32] <ajmitch> heh :)
[08:33] <Amaranth> <MergeFile type="parent"> is supposed to save my ass here, if it can't find the one referenced, it's supposed to find a replacement
[08:33] <Amaranth> but i guess it looks for applications.menu files
[08:33] <ajmitch> I guess so
[08:33] <ajmitch> and that's disappeared from /etc/xdg/menus
[08:33] <Amaranth> yeah
[08:34] <Amaranth> if i can find a pygtk clipboard super hacker i hope to have 0.8 out in a week
[08:34] <ajmitch> nah, I haven't done clipboard stuff :)
[08:34] <ajmitch> my pygtk skills are at the beginnner-moderate level
[08:35] <Amaranth> the only one i've found who has doesn't seem to be able to explain it without random bits of code that i can't understand
[08:35] <Amaranth> hey, do you know anything about xgettext?
[08:36] <ajmitch> nope
[08:36] <Amaranth> i have to symlink ./bin/smeg.py to ./bin/smeg and tell xgettext to use that when generating my pot file, otherwise it tries to read it as C
[08:36] <Amaranth> but if i pass --language=Python it doesn't work with my glade file
[08:37] <Amaranth> maybe this is why the straw guys wrote their own...
[08:49] <Lathiat> heh
[10:24] <DanielN_> hi guys :)
[10:24] <DanielN_> can someone tell me, how i add new docks in windowmaker ?
[10:41] <\sh> morning
[10:43] <DanielN_> \sh moin :)
[10:45] <\sh> our new member :)
[10:49] <Amaranth> i was trying to inject myself in the list for consideration
[10:50] <Amaranth> then at the end of the meeting when i was supposed to bring it up my internet connection suddenly died for 7 hours
[11:01] <\sh> next time :)
[11:02] <DanielN_> \sh: yep.. and quite happy new member ;)
[11:07] <DanielN_> argh
[11:08] <DanielN_> windowmaker is a really geeky windowmanager
[12:13] <\sh> grmpf
[12:13] <\sh> patching shitty c++ code
[12:41] <\sh> moins ogra
[12:46] <\sh> ogra: this warped is hell of a sourcecode
[12:51] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[12:53] <ogra> \sh, thats why i gave it to someone capable ;)
[12:53] <ogra> moin
[12:56] <doko> \sh: please ping lamont/infinity about the buildd issues
[12:56] <doko> ajmitch: C++ ping
[12:56] <doko> ogra: C++ ping
[12:56] <doko> DanielN: C++ ping
[12:56] <ogra> doko, pong
[12:57] <doko> or maybe that should be ping++
[12:57] <ogra> hehe
[12:57] <ivoks> hi guys
[12:58] <ajmitch> doko: hello
[12:58] <ajmitch> how are you? :)
[12:58] <ogra> doko, i'm hanging with tse3, cant make it compile, no debian patch and no idea what to do..... my second worse one it tyvis that waits for a fixed libwarped (which is a PITA)
[12:58] <ivoks> ogra: i tried that one too :(
[12:59] <ogra> unicon waits for a fixed Xlibs.h
[12:59] <ivoks> ogra: openscenegraph too
[12:59] <ogra> doko, the others are uploaded and ready since some time....
[12:59] <ogra> (or invalid)
[12:59] <ajmitch> firebird2, socketapi FTBFS
[01:00] <ajmitch> I've got a few ready to upload, and updated some diffs in bugzilla today
[01:00] <ajmitch> gfcui has a > 1MB debdiff :)
[01:00] <ajmitch> gfccore is merely 100k
[01:01] <ajmitch> mostly due to a broken clean target, I suspect
[01:03] <doko> ajmitch, ogra: can these libs be compiled using g++-3.4?
[01:03] <DanielN> doko: i've done one C++ patch, the other 2 open bugs are free for overtaking (build errors, and i have no idea about c++)
[01:03] <doko> DanielN: that's ok, please could you adjust the wiki?
[01:05] <ogra> doko, for tse3 there is a debian patch to make it compil with 3.4, i'll check it....
[01:06] <ogra> but i'm fearing libwarped wont be this easy to solve
[01:06] <doko> DanielN: which is the one you did finish?
[01:06] <ajmitch> doko: shall I upload the ones which I've updated in bugzilla?
[01:07] <DanielN> doko: i've adjusted the wiki long time ago ~2 days!
[01:07] <ajmitch> firebird2 FTBFS with 3.4
[01:07] <DanielN> doko: i've fixed cppopt
[01:09] <ogra> ajmitch, if you find a way to make firbird2 compile, you'll make someone on ubuntu-users very happy *g*
[01:09] <ajmitch> ogra: oh, did I miss something on there?
[01:10] <ajmitch> I tend to skip most threads on there in my gmail account  :)
[01:11] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, a guy who was asking how to get it compiled from source.... since he didnt find the package in universe.... i already pointed him there several times, but he doesnt nderstand
[01:12] <ajmitch> alright
[01:12] <ajmitch> and this  poor guy uses breezy?
[01:14] <ajmitch> hi Nafallo
[01:15] <ajmitch> iirc this was one that originally compiled with 4.0, but subsequent updates broke it
[01:15] <Nafallo> ajmitch: hi :-)
[01:15] <ajmitch> doko: what is needed in rules to build with 3.4? I know there's an ABI flag to set
[01:18] <doko> ajmitch: no flag.
[01:18] <ajmitch> oh?
[01:18] <ajmitch> useful
[01:19] <doko> depends on the build system, try export CC=gcc-3.4 / export CXX=g++-3.4
[01:19] <ajmitch> socketapi built fine with 3.4
[01:19] <ajmitch> for a test I changed the /usr/bin symlinks to make sure it used 3.4
[01:23] <ajmitch> ah, debuild cleans the environment..
[01:36] <\sh> doko: pong ok :)
[01:36] <ogra> yay, tse3 builds
[01:37] <\sh> ogra: this warped stuff result in a beer bath next time ;)
[01:51] <whiprush> tseng: nice release name. ;)
[01:57] <tseng> whiprush: thanks.
[01:58] <tseng> ha ppc failed
[01:59] <ajmitch> and this upload was for ppc love?
[01:59] <tseng> oh fuck me
[01:59] <tseng> we have to bootstrap cli-common again
[02:00] <tseng> when you ftbfs on an arch, you still get the arch indep bits built on ppc
[02:00] <tseng> and since its a version ahead of the arch dep bits, the whole mess in uninstallable
[02:00] <tseng> thanks to cli-common mono is its own build-dep
[02:02] <ogra> heh... its a PTIA
[02:02] <tseng> definately
[02:02] <tseng> i didnt even think of it
[02:12] <\sh> ogra: i fixed now 3 bugs in this damn warped package
[02:13] <ogra> does it work ?
[02:15] <\sh> ogra: I'm just not finished with fixing :)
[02:15] <ogra> heh...
[02:15] <ogra> fun
[02:15] <\sh> fixing, creating patch, copy patch to debian/patches, breezy build *ubuntu1.dsc
[02:16] <\sh> and it's not over
[02:20] <\sh> arped/TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory.h:55: error: expected `)' before '*' token
[02:20] <\sh> warped/TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory.cpp:38: error: prototype for 'TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory::TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory(TimeWarpSimulationManager*)' does not match any in class 'TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory'
[02:20] <\sh> another bug
[02:20] <\sh> new one
[02:20] <\sh> oh my god..this is a desaster...for what do we need warped?
[02:20] <ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I've got one that looks just like that :)
[02:21] <ajmitch> \sh: there's only 1 package that I see depending on libwarped0
[02:24] <\sh> but do we really need this app?
[02:24] <ogra> \sh, to make tyvis compile :)
[02:24] <\sh> what the heck is tyvis?
[02:24] <\sh> we need a package statistics about the installations
[02:25] <ajmitch> ah, VHDL simulator
[02:25] <ogra> \sh, the package that depends on warped ;)
[02:25] <ajmitch> very useful :)
[02:25] <\sh> vhdl? wit?
[02:25] <\sh> wit== what is that?
[02:26] <ajmitch> VHSIC hardware description language :)
[02:26] <ajmitch> the language that you'd describe a chip in
[02:26] <\sh> something to eat? pr0n? ,-) i never heard about it...100.000 opensource packages worldwide, and two packages i'm not using in a regular enviroment...
[02:27] <\sh> that means a lot of beer from ogra..yes...
[02:27] <ajmitch> hehe
[02:27] <ogra> a barrel
[02:27] <ogra> or two
[02:27] <\sh> a ? at least 3 ;)
[02:27] <ajmitch> I wish ogra was close enough to supply beer :)
[02:27] <ogra> heh
[02:27] <Amaranth> hrm, tomboy applet and gnome-panel 2.11.3 don't get along
[02:30] <tseng> rebuild it?
[02:30] <\sh> ogra: with this error, u have to provide 5 barrels of beer and 100 kg of nice filet steaks
[02:30] <\sh> ../src/.libs/libwarped.a(eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.o)(.text+0x33d): In function `eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer::physicalInit(SimulationConfiguration&)':
[02:30] <\sh> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux/4.0.1/../../../../include/c++/4.0.1/ext/mt_allocator.h:368: undefined reference to `eclmplTimer::start()'
[02:30] <\sh> ../src/.libs/libwarped.a(eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.o)(.text+0x548): In function `eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer::checkRetransmissionTimeout()':
[02:30] <\sh> warped/eclmpl/eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.cpp:355: undefined reference to `eclmplTimer::start()'
[02:31] <tseng> making a livecd seems easier than I thought
[02:31] <ogra> why ? arnt they fun ?
[02:31] <ajmitch> \sh: check for any friend classes, protected members, etc :)
[02:31] <ogra> ducks even
[02:31] <\sh> ajmitch: yeah
[02:31] <\sh> something like this..shitty crappy code that is
[02:32] <ajmitch> \sh: and hope that it doesn't abuse templates
[02:36] <\sh> ajmitch: think there is something wrong with the library itself...there is something missing
[02:36] <ajmitch> worrying
[02:42] <tseng> man i should have seen this coming
[02:42] <tseng> people arent smart enough to figure out my rewrite of this intranet web app
[02:42] <tseng> they need to click the link with the same name as on the old page.
[02:44] <ajmitch> people can't handle change
[02:44] <\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/shermannpics/desktopshots/
[02:44] <ajmitch> no matter how small
[02:44] <\sh> i will post now screenshots every hour at least ;)
[02:45] <ajmitch> oh, a kde user
[02:45] <ajmitch> my condolences :)
[02:45] <\sh> sure
[02:45] <ogra> hmm, nice shot
[02:45] <ogra> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
[02:45] <ogra>  -> Aborting with an error
[02:45] <ogra> heh
[02:46] <ajmitch> my screen would show a hoary install running in qemu at the moment
[02:46] <ajmitch> a friend of mine is having install issues
[02:46] <rtcm> hello, I noticed ghc6 is FTBFS due to itself not being installable because it depends on libgmp3 which changed name due to the CXX transition, so what is there to do about it?
[02:48] <tseng> that doesnt look as bad as i remember kde
[02:49] <ajmitch> rtcm: we can get it rebuilt
[02:49] <ajmitch> tseng: kde has improved
[02:50] <ogra> rtcm, if the library transition is done we'll have to rebuild the c++ universe....
[02:50] <tseng> doko already started
[02:50] <tseng> rebuilding universe apps
[02:51] <ogra> oh, so the lock is released already ?
[02:51] <tseng> dunno but he is going nuts with apps
[02:51] <tseng> look at changes from yesterday
[02:51] <ogra> tseng, currently i look at changes with "ctrl-A ,select mark all read"
[02:52] <ajmitch> ogra: he sorted out with elmo & infinity that once the libs hit, the apps can be autobuilt
[02:52] <ogra> ah, great
[02:52] <ajmitch> I believe with some dep-wait magic on the buildds
[02:52] <ogra> we should have an announcement for that :)
[02:52] <ajmitch> instead of just blacklisting
[02:52] <ajmitch> confirm with doko :)
[02:52] <rtcm> so it's a matter of time then...
[02:52] <ogra> rtcm, but every help is appreciated ;)
[02:52] <doko> well, not all yet, some people are still working on C++ libs ...
[02:52] <tseng> man compressing the livecd cloop takes forever
[02:53] <tseng> this is a wimpy p3
[02:54] <rtcm> ogra, I would like to at least build a pkg for myself
[02:55] <rtcm> yet i dont how to overcome the circular dependency
[02:55] <ogra> rtcm, so help with the transition, its the easiest way to get familiar with thepackaging structures
[02:55] <ogra> and it will help to speed up the transition for the apps :)
[02:57] <rtcm> my plan was to modify the build-depends but with it having a dep on itself it gets complicated, how do you guys solve it?
[02:58] <tseng> just like that
[02:58] <tseng> youd have to build it twice
[02:58] <ajmitch> oh, it's one of them..
[02:58] <ajmitch> bootstrap madness
[02:58] <jdong> tseng: yeah, not to mention how deleting files doesn't work out too well ;)
[02:59] <ogra> deleting files ?
[03:01] <tseng> yeah im not sure what he means either.
[03:02] <jdong> livecd...
[03:02] <jdong> deleting files doesn't make the cloop smaller
[03:02] <jdong> because it isn't zeroed
[03:02] <jdong> most of the times, you'll need to rsync to a fresh loopback image after customizing
[03:03] <tseng> oh.
[03:03] <tseng> im not sure i need to make it smaller
[03:03] <tseng> i only added one package
[03:04] <jdong> yeah; I was trying to add about 1GB of packages by removing X
[03:04] <jdong> and that didn't go so well
[03:04] <tseng> i removed gaim and openoffice
[03:04] <tseng> since they are pretty useless for this project
[03:04] <jdong> that's not gonna save you much space, unless you rsync
[03:05] <jdong> there's a slight chance of reusing reclaimed space, but most likely that'll save you less than 5% of what you freed
[03:05] <tseng> well ethereal probaly fits in 5% of openoffice :P
[03:06] <jdong> yeah, not to mention the ISO isn't filled to the brim to begin with
[03:06] <jdong> BTW, use --best compression
[03:06] <jdong> it makes a pretty big size difference
[03:06] <tseng> hm
[03:06] <tseng> did you document all this somewhere?
[03:06] <jdong> no;
[03:07] <jdong> well, I'm off to take a stats exam :)
[03:08] <ajmitch> good luck
[03:28] <mgalvin> morning all
[03:29] <ajmitch> hi mgalvin
[04:37] <ogra> mgalvin, nice, you subscribed :-D
[04:39] <\sh> ogra: last try with warped...if this is not working...I will throw it away
[04:40] <ogra> \sh, if this is not working try gcc-3.4 as last resort
[04:40] <\sh> ogra: no...I will fix it ... and when it is  the last what i'm doing
[04:41] <ogra> heh
[04:42] <mgalvin> ogra, yup :),  i also started reading through all the stuff I can find on what you guys have done thus far
[04:42] <ogra> \sh, if it gives you heart attacs, just switch back to 3.4.... we still need you for other stuff
[04:43] <ogra> mgalvin, not very much yet.... we're still at a organizational stage
[04:43] <\sh> hey...don't worry about me and sourcecode stuff ;) my ex-wife kills me before
[04:43] <ogra> mgalvin, i'll be at the skolelinux conference with mark next weekend, i hope to get some more ideas there
[04:44] <\sh> installing
[04:44] <\sh> package building
[04:45] <ajmitch> sigh, managed to throw away a few hours
[04:45] <\sh> looks ok
[04:45] <ajmitch> trying to help friend get hoary installed, failed each time
[04:45] <ajmitch> warty failed, too
[04:46] <\sh> ogra: thank me :) I'm uploading :)
[04:46] <ogra> yay
[04:46] <ajmitch> it works?
[04:46] <mgalvin> ogra, great, i wish i could go, but i'll just have to read about
[04:46] <ajmitch> \sh: well done :)
[04:46] <\sh> ood signature on /home/shermann/breezy/transistion/new/warped/warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.dsc.
[04:46] <\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.dsc: done.
[04:46] <\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
[04:46] <\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[04:46] <\sh> Successfully uploaded packages.
[04:47] <ajmitch> nearly 3am, must deal with friend's fs errors tomorrow :)
[04:48] <\sh> but i really don't know if this is working in  a real enviroment ..only fixed the build errors ;)
[04:49] <ajmitch> \sh: if it compiles, it works, right? ;)
[04:49] <\sh> ajmitch: well...
[04:50] <\sh> ajmitch: since this is a numbercrunching whatever shiddy source...
[04:50] <\sh> and now i need a coffee and something to smoke...
[05:07] <ogra> night ajmitch
[05:12] <Riddell> \sh: konqueror-shortcuts comments on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
[05:17] <ivoks> ubuntu rocks! :)
[05:18] <ogra> yep
[05:18] <ogra> :)
[05:18] <ivoks> you remeber that wifi-radar?
[05:19] <ivoks> ok, i packaged simple upstream source
[05:19] <ivoks> but this last version of ubuntu's package
[05:19] <ivoks> will have automatic detection of wifi interface and automatic detection of installed dhcp client
[05:20] <ivoks> instead od Depends: dhclient, it will have Depends: dhclient | pump | dhcpd
[05:21] <ivoks> all these patches camed only 12-24 hours after new upstream source and my ubuntu-package release information
[05:21] <ivoks> and will be included in next upstream version :)
[05:50] <\sh> ok..preparing to go home...laters guys
[05:50] <dholbach> bye \sh
[05:52] <mgalvin> later \sh
[05:58] <Riddell> \sh: feedback of qinx and njam on MOTUNewPackages
[06:10] <DanielN> ree.. wmaker installed here too now :)
[06:37] <mgalvin> does anyone have a sec to review a very simple package?
[06:40] <DanielN> mgalvin: well, i'm not a motu at all, but Distribution must be breezy, not unstable.. if you're talkin about mmstrip
[06:44] <mgalvin> DanielN, yea thats the one, good catch, thnx
[06:44] <DanielN> np ;)
[06:45] <DanielN> mgalvin: you could put the cutted version of GPL in debian/control
[06:46] <jamessan|work> you mean copyright?
[06:47] <DanielN> argh yep
[06:47] <DanielN> :)
[06:48] <mgalvin> is that the prefered method, and just link to /usr/...gpl
[06:49] <mgalvin> that would be cleaner, i'll just do that
[06:49] <DanielN> i'm not sure, but it seems logical to me, cause the full version of GPL is contained in every debian/ubuntu install
[06:50] <DanielN> jamessan: mhm.. i'm using dh_make too, but there isn't any license information automatically put into debian/copyright
[06:50] <mgalvin> yea, i use dh_make too, and just filled in all the required stuff
[06:50] <jamessan|work> DanielN: if you specify that you're packaging a gpl licensed piece of software when you invoke it, there is
[06:50] <tseng> there should be a dh_make --cdbs
[06:50] <tseng> that doesnt give me a raft of crap
[06:51] <jamessan|work> DanielN: -c gpl  is the option
[06:51] <DanielN> jamessan: i should read more man pages ;) but thanks for that hint
[06:52] <jamessan|work> --cdbs is quite handy, too
[06:52] <jamessan|work> probably found out about that from idling here
[06:53] <jamessan|work> may have even been tseng that mentioned it  ;)
[06:53] <dholbach> jamessan|work: idling here is excellent :)
[06:53] <tseng> ?
[06:53] <tseng> is there really a --cdbs?
[06:53] <tseng> i just said < tseng> there should be a dh_make --cdbs
[06:53] <mgalvin> do you guys know of any good cdbs howtos
[06:53] <jamessan|work> hah
[06:53] <ogra> jamessan|work, but please mak sure you fully understand dh_* before packaging with cdbs
[06:53] <jamessan|work> tseng: yes, there is
[06:54] <tseng>        -d, --defaultless
[06:54] <tseng>               Skips  applying the default templates to the target debian directory
[06:54] <jamessan|work> ogra: I started with debhelper.  I don't think cdbs was around when I first started packaging
[06:54] <ogra> jamessan|work, ok :)
[06:55] <dholbach> mgalvin: https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
[06:55] <dholbach> mgalvin: and /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples
[06:55] <tseng> hm I dont like that
[06:56] <ogra> tseng, what ? -d ?
[06:56] <tseng> yes
[06:56] <tseng> it does absolutely nothing
[06:56] <tseng> I want a basic CDBS package w/o a million .ex files in it.
[06:56] <tseng> not just a different rules file
[06:57] <mgalvin> dholbach, thnx
[06:58] <dholbach> ogra: no
[06:58] <ogra> tseng, use dh_make, throw away the rules file and you are done, or not ?
[06:58] <ogra> dholbach, why ?
[06:58] <ogra> dholbach, i think thats really serious
[06:58] <dholbach> because people tend to copy and paste random crap together
[06:58] <tseng> ogra: eh there are a bunch of examples
[06:58] <dholbach> and cdbs helps with this problem
[06:58] <ogra> dholbach, nope
[06:58] <tseng> *.EX
[06:58] <dholbach> i think so
[06:58] <ogra> dholbach, it prevents people from undersanding the essential part
[06:59] <tseng> or it lowers the barrier to get started
[06:59] <tseng> and they can learn that part as they go
[06:59] <dholbach> it doesn't and if people neglect to understand you won't change it with a policy :)
[06:59] <ogra> dholbach, its fine if you are an old fart in packaging.... but starting with cdbs leaves you dumb...
[06:59] <tseng> if people have to learn it all at once, ala the Debian New Maint guide to do anything
[07:00] <dholbach> no... it just prevents you from copying random stuff together you don't understand
[07:00] <tseng> they might just never finish
[07:00] <mgalvin> in learning all this stuff I have found it very valuable to use the dh_* stuff, it has helped to learn a lot
[07:00] <ogra> dholbach, if people dont understand the dh scripts they shouldnt be MOTUs
[07:00] <Nafallo> tseng: ++ :-)
[07:00] <tseng> ogra: i started with CDBS.
[07:00] <tseng> on tomboy
[07:00] <ogra> dholbach, thats up to the reviewer to judge if copy n paste is bad or not....
[07:01] <dholbach> to the reviewer?
[07:01] <ogra> but i've seen too many packages where cdbs and debhelper was totally mixed up....
[07:01] <ogra> dholbach, yep
[07:01] <dholbach> i think it's generally bad
[07:01] <ogra> dholbach, why should copy n paste be wrong if the result is ok...
[07:02] <ogra> and the reviewer should judge the result.....
[07:02] <dholbach> because it's error-prone
[07:02] <dholbach> it doesn't make any sense
[07:02] <ogra> i cant even judge the skills of a packager if he uses cdbs
[07:02] <dholbach> if i can abbreviate certain tasks, i do it
[07:03] <dholbach> you can by the result: missing files, files in the wrong directory, automatic manpage-generation, ...
[07:03] <ogra> how do i know how good he read his "make" handbook to understand rules files ?
[07:03] <dholbach> there are enough indicators for good skill
[07:03] <ogra> not in cdbs packages....
[07:03] <ogra> my mother could build one if i gave her a list what to do
[07:03] <dholbach> that's your opinion
[07:04] <ogra> its nice to get the task done...
[07:04] <ogra> but for nothing else
[07:04] <dholbach> so you think it's "dirty"?
[07:04] <mgalvin> my only argument here is that i (personally) find it enlightening to do it the "hard" way first the use the more automagic stuff after knowing how the guts work
[07:04] <ogra> and i really cant judge anyone after a cdbs package with 3 lines in the rules
[07:05] <ogra> dholbach, nope, but i think its totally useless to check packaging skills
[07:05] <dholbach> i really don't think so
[07:05] <ogra> or to teach people packaging
[07:05] <dholbach> most packages have problems which you have to solve yourself
[07:06] <dholbach> but spending time on reading up each and every manpage of a dh_* command seems like a waste of time to me; i shouldn't admit it loudly in here, but i think you learn stuff as you go
[07:06] <ogra> dholbach, reading manpages is never a waste of time
[07:07] <ogra> and you should definately know about dh_gconf if you package a gnome app package for example
[07:07] <dholbach> i was talking about each and everyone and copied/pasted rules files
[07:07] <ogra> even for cdbs usage
[07:08] <mgalvin> nothing wrong with learn as you go, we all learn new stuff as we go everyday, although some inital ramp up reading can be a big help in gaining an initial understanding
 they might just never finish ---- but that seperates the most motivated from the lower motivated ;)
[07:08] <ogra> mgalvin, thats not waht i'm saying, learn as you go is what we all do..... i'm a bit concerned that each and everyone here advises people to use cdbs...
[07:09] <dholbach> hi mitsuhiko
[07:09] <ogra> since it gains us not the knowledge growth i'd expect in here....
[07:10] <dholbach> ogra:  most of the time we have people working on the transitions (and that's where i learned), not by the rules-files I copied and pasted :)
[07:10] <ogra> and good knowledge about packaging is the base of all good QA
[07:10] <ogra> dholbach, sure.... and most of the time you have to work with debhelper stuff there...
[07:10] <dholbach> yes
[07:11] <mitsuhiko> dholbach: Hi
[07:11] <dholbach> i think it's more important to have a rules file, which starts by doing general stuff first, just by inclusion of stuff and then you start expanding where you need it
[07:11] <DanielN> oho, mitsuhiko ;)
[07:11] <dholbach> and you DO need it sometimes
[07:12] <dholbach> because a cdbs-rules file, i can write by hand now
[07:18] <ogra> ergh
[07:18] <ogra> \sh, broke the naming of warped....
[07:18] <dholbach> oh
[07:18] <dholbach> what's its name now?
[07:19] <ogra> libwarped0c2
[07:19] <dholbach> what was it's name before?
[07:19] <ogra> but the -dev lib doesnt depend on it
[07:19] <ogra> libwarped0
[07:19] <dholbach> oh
[07:20] <ogra> hmm, it does depend on it... thats strange
[07:21] <dholbach> is it just the depends line, he forgot or what?
[07:21] <dholbach> hey littlepaul
[07:21] <mgalvin> so to create a (basic) cdbs package one should: dh_make ..., remove junk, and add cdbs .mk's to rules, correct? sorry if its a silly question i just haven't used cdbs yet, been doing it all with dh_*
[07:21] <ogra> nope, its rather a lag on the archive i think, the package looks sane.... but the -dev lib tries to pull libwarped0
[07:22] <littlepaul> hi dholbach ;-)
[07:22] <dholbach> mgalvin: have a look at /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples and the webpage i told you - it just affects debian/rules and ok you have to Build-Depend on cdbs of course
[07:23] <dholbach> ogra: do you have the correct version?
[07:23] <ogra> my pbuilder has the right version of the lib but not the -dev package....
[07:23] <ogra> let me try another update
[07:23] <dholbach> forgot to update shlibs
[07:26] <ogra> dholbach, no .shlibs file :)
[07:26] <dholbach> in the rules-file?
[07:26] <ogra>    dh_makeshlibs -V
[07:26] <ogra>         dh_installdeb
[07:26] <ogra>         dh_shlibdeps
[07:27] <ogra> everything there...
[07:27] <dholbach> By default, the shlibs file generated by this program does not make packages depend on any particular version of the package containing the shared library.
[07:27] <dholbach> that's for dh_makeshlibs
[07:28] <ogra> thus the -V
[07:29] <ogra> but still, the package name changed ....
[07:29] <dholbach> yeah... i quoted the -V paragraph
[07:29] <ogra> ah, i havent looked at the manpage..
[07:30] <dholbach> ok... i'm off again
[07:30] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[07:30] <ogra> ciao
[07:31] <mgalvin> later dholbach
[07:32] <dholbach> *wave*
[07:43] <herve> hi all!
[07:43] <mgalvin> hi herve
[07:44] <mitsuhiko> hi
[07:46] <ogra> hey herve
[07:53] <siretart> hi folks
[07:54] <mitsuhiko> hi
[08:02] <mgalvin> hi siretart
[08:03] <DanielN> hi herve
[08:03] <\sh> re
[08:03] <DanielN> wb \sh :)
[08:03] <mitsuhiko> hi
[08:03] <\sh> i'm tired...
[08:04] <ogra> \sh, sorry to say that, but you forgot to rename a link in the warped rules file :/
[08:04] <\sh> ogra: can happen after all this *censored*
[08:04] <ogra> its only a doc link....
[08:05] <\sh> u fixed it? :) thx a lot
[08:05] <herve> \sh, yeah, I had alerts from your work every 15 min or so
[08:05] <herve> amazing
[08:05] <herve> impressive, even
[08:06] <DanielN> herve: MD5SUM mismatch in when is fixed, just as notice :)
[08:06] <herve> hehe
[08:06] <herve> something tells me universe will soon have a new package ;-)
[08:06] <\sh> herve: alerts?
[08:06] <herve> will check later
[08:06] <herve> \sh, wiki updates
[08:06] <\sh> herve: that was yesterday
[08:08] <herve> I lived quite off-time these days :)-
[08:08] <ogra> \sh,  not yet... but i have it here...
[08:08] <ogra> and it didnt save tyvis.... still compile errors :(
[08:09] <\sh> ogra: grmpf....
[08:09] <\sh> is it also c++?
[08:09] <herve> btw, I won't be much present this week
[08:09] <ogra> \sh, yes... but i havent looked for patches yet....
[08:10] <\sh> show me one of the errors
[08:11] <\sh> ahh....i will compile a wiki page with some interessting docs about porting 32bit to 64bit software, one comes from amd and the other one from suse
[08:11] <ogra> sounds like a very good plan
[08:11] <\sh> but sometimes it's not helping
[08:12] <\sh> much
[08:12] <tritium> Hi trulux
[08:25] <jbailey> jamessan: What do you mean cdbs wasn't around?
[08:25] <jbailey> jamessan: Didn't I get you to use it?
[08:27] <jamessan|work> jbailey: I had been packaging (for myself) before you started sponsoring me and I don't recall if you are who first told me about cdbs.  I think I was already using it.  In fact, I seem to recall a comment about how you liked that I was already using it since it made things easier for you
[08:28] <jbailey> That might be possible.
[08:29] <jamessan|work> yup. "Ah, python distutils using cdbs."
[08:37] <jbailey> =)
[08:40] <Riddell> can you "Build-Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}" ?
[08:40] <tseng> hm no
[08:40] <Riddell> didn't think so
[08:40] <elmo> no
[08:41] <tseng> that gets written to a file at build time
[08:41] <tseng> build-depends is put into the .dsc and stuff
[08:41] <tseng> when you build the source only package
[08:41] <elmo> the real problem is there's a mapping for library -> Depends info, there's no similar mapping from library -> Build-Depends info (i.e. -dev package name, version)
[08:42] <elmo> super-long-term/blue-sky there should be, but right now, you have to do it byhand
[08:53] <siretart> how to display the build dependencies of a not installed source package?
[08:53] <\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PortingSourcesFrom32To64Bit
[08:53] <\sh> siretart: apt-cache showsrc <srcpackage>?
[08:54] <jamessan|work> siretart: look at the .dsc
[08:54] <siretart> \sh: thanks
[08:55] <siretart> jamessan|work: I wanted to avoid downloading the source, \sh's solution is what I was looking for. thanks anyway!
[08:55] <jamessan|work> ah
[08:55] <jamessan|work> that is handy
[08:57] <\sh> If you have some infos about porting apps/libs from 32 to 64bit please put it on this page, mentioned earlier
[09:37] <ivoks> hi all
[09:37] <\sh> hey ivoks
[09:42] <mitsuhiko`futter> moin
[09:43] <mitsuhiko`futter> ^^
[09:48] <herve> I sent a RFS on debian lists (*hint* *hint*) ;-)
[09:48] <herve> hi ivoks
[09:49] <\sh> Unfrgiven: I'm taking some of your libs...to have doko frozenapps list cleared out :)
[09:50] <ivoks> libopenthreads-dev: Depends: libopenthreads (= 0.9.8-4) but it is not installable
[09:50] <ivoks> doh! :(((
[09:50] <ivoks> that's my package :(
[09:50] <\sh> u uploaded?
[09:50] <ivoks> no
[09:50] <HiddenWolf> Guys, I have a weird problem using vlc in hoary. Should I still report a bug there?
[09:51] <ivoks> no
[09:51] <ivoks> :)
[09:51] <\sh> ivoks: whats the problem? it's one of the libs missing during cxx
[09:51] <ivoks> yes...
[09:51] <\sh> ivoks: your key is signed?
[09:51] <\sh> ivoks: ping elmo and nerve him ;)
[09:51] <ivoks> for a moment i tought i sent wrong pathes :)
[09:52] <ivoks> \sh: i contacted elmo and mako
[09:52] <elmo> sh: that's not very helpful ...
[09:52] <ivoks> there is some problem with my gpg
[09:52] <ivoks> so... i can only wait
[09:52] <\sh> elmo: i'm teasing ;)
[09:52] <ivoks> oh, elmo :)
[09:52] <ivoks> hi herve :)
[09:54] <ivoks> xlibs.h creats chain FTBS :)
[09:55] <ogra> ivoks, yep
[09:55] <ogra> ivoks, thats a daniels problem... we have to wait
[09:56] <ogra> ivoks, he said it would be solved tomorrow
[09:56] <ivoks> is unforgiven working on ace?
[09:56] <ogra> woah, really ?
[09:56] <ogra> ace is huge
[09:56] <ivoks> ogra: nice, that would very nice...
[09:57] <ivoks> i tought, maybe we could help him
[09:57] <ivoks> i have one problematic source
[09:57] <ivoks> opencv
[09:57] <\sh> ask him
[09:57] <ogra> ivoks, me too, tyvis....
[09:57] <\sh> it's all one source
[09:57] <\sh> ivoks: help ogra :)
[09:58] <\sh> I'm taking dokos list
[09:58] <\sh> http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt
[09:58] <ivoks> \sh: you can take opencv :)
[09:58] <ogra> OH !
[09:58] <ogra> it built in the background and i didnt even notice
[09:59] <ivoks> ogra: tyvis?
[09:59] <ogra> dpkg-deb: building package `libtyvis1c2' in `../libtyvis1c2_20031216-5ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
[09:59] <ogra> dpkg-deb: building package `libtyvis1-dev' in `../libtyvis1-dev_20031216-5ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
[09:59] <ogra> finally....
[09:59] <ivoks> :))
[09:59] <\sh> fsck
[09:59] <ogra> that package has eaten so much time recently
[09:59] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:00] <\sh> the diffs between gcc3.4 and gcc4 are to be damned
[10:00] <Nafallo> kismet ftbfs :-/
[10:00] <\sh> one patch applied, the next error occured
[10:01] <ogra> \sh, some c++ advise, stdint.h didnt work, but:
[10:01] <ogra> #ifndef INT64_MIN
[10:01] <ogra> #define INT64_MIN (-(9223372036854775807 ## L)-1)
[10:01] <ogra> #endif
[10:01] <ogra> #ifndef INT64_MAX
[10:01] <ogra> #define INT64_MAX ((9223372036854775807 ## L))
[10:01] <ogra> #endif
[10:01] <ogra> did
[10:01] <ogra> any idea ?
[10:02] <ogra> i could just leave it this way, but that doesnt feel sane
[10:02] <\sh> yeah
[10:02] <\sh> :)
[10:02] <\sh> i have the solution
[10:02] <ogra> yay
[10:02] <\sh> u have the source of warped there?
[10:02] <ogra> yep
[10:02] <\sh> go to warped-*/src/warped/
[10:02] <\sh> vi warped.h
[10:03] <ogra> oki
[10:03] <\sh> check under #if __HAVE_STDINT_H
[10:03] <\sh> #include <limits>
[10:03] <\sh> and define it just like there
[10:03] <ivoks> khm...
[10:03] <\sh> using namespace std
[10:03] <ivoks> huh?!
[10:04] <ivoks> where did i goet opencv-0.9.6?!
[10:04] <\sh> numeric_limits<longlong>::max()/::min() is it
[10:04] <ivoks> damn...
[10:04] <ogra> \sh, sure its this file ?
[10:04] <\sh> warped.h
[10:04] <\sh> w8
[10:05] <ogra> warped-config.h :)
[10:05] <\sh> ah u don't have the patch
[10:05] <\sh> check the patch
[10:06] <\sh> const warped64_t warped64Max = numeric_limits<long>::max();
[10:06] <\sh> const warped64_t warped64Min = numeric_limits<long>::min();
[10:06] <\sh> const warped64_t warped32Max = numeric_limits<int>::max();
[10:06] <\sh> const warped64_t warped32Min = numeric_limits<int>::min();
[10:06] <\sh> hmm
[10:06] <ogra> yep, i see it
[10:06] <\sh> i think i made a mistake
[10:06] <\sh> can u change long to longlong?
[10:06] <ivoks> ok... am I crazy or what?!
[10:06] <ivoks> there was opencv-0.9.6 in sid
[10:06] <\sh> w8 lemme check the right modifier
[10:06] <ivoks> now there is opencv-0.9.5-10
[10:06] <ogra> \sh, sure
[10:07] <ivoks> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=opencv&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[10:07] <ivoks> check this out
[10:07] <\sh> ogra: numeric_limits<long long>::max()/::min
[10:07] <ogra> \sh, yeps
[10:07] <ivoks> all packages are 0.9.5, but -doc is .6
[10:07] <\sh> please change warped as well, pls :)
[10:08] <\sh> at least just like this:
[10:08] <\sh> numeric_limits<long long>::max()/::min() for 64max and 64min
[10:08] <\sh> numeric_limits<long>::max()/::min() for 32max and 32min
[10:08] <\sh> thx
[10:09] <\sh> no w8
[10:09] <ogra> oh, no int at all ?
[10:09] <\sh> for warped i will do it
[10:09] <\sh> ogra: int and long have the same size under 32but
[10:09] <\sh> aeh bit
[10:09] <ogra> yep
[10:10] <\sh> on 64bit int != long and long != long long
[10:10] <ogra> i read the docs on you wiki page ;)
[10:10] <ogra> your
[10:10] <\sh> it's the same with the docs...they're all weired
[10:11] <\sh> anyways...take over warped ;) i've to fix gtkmm
[10:11] <\sh> your warped stole me my brain, believe me ;)
[10:30] <herve> night all
[10:37] <ivoks> Mithrandir: ping
[10:37] <lamont_r> bible-kjv needs gcc-4.0 love
[10:39] <ogra> gnomesword is too...
[10:39] <ivoks> ogra: copy/paste :)
[10:39] <Nafallo> ivoks: he's on the pub afaik.
[10:39] <Nafallo> :-)
[10:39] <ivoks> on the pub?
[10:40] <ogra> ivoks, c+ makes copy paste easier ?
[10:40] <ogra> +
[10:40] <Nafallo> ivoks: oui
[10:40] <ivoks> ogra: no, but bible is bible, why write new when there is one allready, in c++ :)
[10:40] <ogra> lol
[10:40] <ivoks> Nafallo: in pub?
[10:40] <ogra> ivoks, yes, in the pub
[10:40] <\sh> gtkmm is totally crap
[10:40] <ivoks> ok :)
[10:41] <Nafallo> hehe, yea :-)
[10:41] <ivoks> anyone else with amd64?
[10:41] <Nafallo> on the pub in swedish ;-)
[10:41] <ogra> Nafallo, norwegian
[10:42] <Nafallo> ogra: no, I'm swedish :-)
[10:42] <ogra> Nafallo, but the pub Mithrandir is gone isnt ;)
[10:42] <ogra> Nafallo, at least i think that... dunno how far he likes to drive fr a beer :)
[10:43] <Nafallo> ogra: hehe. unfortunally he didn't wrote where he was going on our channel ;-).
[10:43] <ogra> Nafallo, what the hell do you do with a hoary pbuilder ?
[10:43] <Nafallo> ogra: UniverseSecurity :-)
[10:43] <ogra> ha
[10:44] <ivoks> ok... it builds on i386
[10:44] <ogra> Nafallo, so why arent you in the security team yet ?
[10:44] <Nafallo> ogra: ain't I?
[10:44] <\sh> ogra: did u say, gtk is ok?
[10:44] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann 2175 2005-06-08 21:54 01_gtkmm.patch
[10:44] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  866 2005-06-08 22:25 02_src_clist_gen__h.patch
[10:44] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  588 2005-06-08 22:35 03_src_radiobutton_gen__h.patch
[10:44] <\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  588 2005-06-08 22:43 04_src_radiomenuitem_gen__h.patch
[10:44] <ivoks> render.h:53:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory jesus...
[10:45] <ivoks> one more..
[10:45] <ogra> \sh, as long as you dont mix it with c++, yes ;)
[10:45] <ivoks> i'm so pissed right now...
[10:45] <ivoks> no cxx untill X are fixed :)
[10:45] <\sh> ogra: this gtkmm only consists of .gen_h files...and this will be later c++ code *crapcrap*
[10:45] <ogra> ivoks, i got the same one here
[10:46] <\sh> take the next
[10:46] <ivoks> next?!
[10:46] <Nafallo> ivoks: hehe ;-)
[10:46] <\sh> after some stats on cxxlibrarylist doko is 1st, \sh is 2nd ;)
[10:46] <ivoks> i tried 4
[10:46] <ivoks> all same thing :)
[10:46] <Nafallo> ivoks: daniels said something about tomorrow :-P
[10:46] <ivoks> Nafallo: i know :)
[10:47] <\sh> a "I'm approved as member my Mark personally" t-shirt

[10:47] <\sh> s/my/by/
[10:47] <Burgundavia> my member was approved by Mark?
[10:48] <\sh> don't take me serious...i'm falling apart
[10:48] <ivoks> it's \sh
[10:48] <ivoks> one and only
[10:48] <ivoks> :)
[10:48] <ogra> Nafallo, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUSecurity ??
[10:48] <ivoks> time for bed
[10:48] <ivoks> ice cream and bed :)
[10:49] <Nafallo> ogra: aha. we don't use the wiki much ;-).
[10:49] <Nafallo> ogra: besides. neither are tseng and astharot :-)
[10:50] <Nafallo> lol!
[10:50] <ivoks> omg... poor dogs
[10:50] <Nafallo> \sh: nice pic ;-)
[10:50] <\sh> Nafallo: check kurioses.blogweb.de
[10:50] <\sh> u will find more
[10:51] <ivoks> finally...
[10:51] <ivoks> looks like we are going to EU :)
[10:51] <\sh> ok...gtkmm is finished and uploaded
[10:55] <Nafallo> hmm
[10:55] <Nafallo> damn wiki!
[10:55] <Nafallo> UnicodeDecodeError :-(
[10:59] <ivoks> bye all!
[11:05] <\sh> ok..debian informed about gtkmm
[11:18] <tseng> Nafallo: hm?
[11:20] <Nafallo> tseng: UniverseSecurity. there is a list of members on MOTUSecurity. and we're not on that list ;-).
[11:20] <Nafallo> tseng: basically :-)
[11:20] <tseng> oh well
[11:20] <tseng> i dont do anything
[11:30] <tseng> Nafallo: im the biggest slacker on the security team, i submitted 0 fixes
[11:30] <Nafallo> tseng: hehe :-)
[11:31] <Nafallo> tseng: I spent the day on xfree86, then looked at the changelog and saw the lib I was fixing wasn't built anymore ;-).
[11:31] <Nafallo> tseng: beat that ;-)
[11:31] <tseng> rocked.
[11:31] <Nafallo> hehe


[12:31] <larsselavy> hey! I have an usb fast track but how do i have to configure jack and ardour to recognize it?
[12:35] <AutoStatic> larsselavy: you have to adjust JACK settings only
[12:37] <AutoStatic> Are you a bit familiar with the terminal?
[13:10] <larsselavy> a bit AutoStatic
[13:10] <larsselavy> i'm setting the input and output devices but i can't hear nor record anything
[13:11] <AutoStatic> Could you post the output of the terminal command cat /proc/asound/cards ?
[13:18] <larsselavy> 0 [Intel          ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
[13:18] <larsselavy>                       HDA Intel at 0xf7ff8000 irq 22
[13:18] <larsselavy>  1 [Track          ]: USB-Audio - Fast Track
[13:18] <larsselavy>                       M-Audio Fast Track at usb-0000:00:1d.0-1.4, full speed
[13:18] <larsselavy> AutoStatic,
[13:18] <AutoStatic> Ah, it's called Track
[13:19] <AutoStatic> So in QjackCtl you can refer to it as 'hw:Track'
[13:19] <AutoStatic> Instead of hw:0 or hw:1
[13:19] <AutoStatic> But there was something about this device regarding the hw designation...
[13:22] <larsselavy> yeah we choose a lot of combinations, as hw:1, hw:1.0 one time as input one time as output but we can't succeed
[13:22] <AutoStatic> Is it a fast Track or a Fast Track Pro?
[13:22] <larsselavy> first one
[13:23] <AutoStatic> Ah
[13:24] <AutoStatic> The just using hw:Track should do
[13:24] <AutoStatic> Then
[13:25] <AutoStatic> Just enter that in the 'Interface' field of the QJAackCtl Setup window
[13:25] <AutoStatic> You can type in that field
[13:30] <larsselavy> we can't reach that field, now it's in "grey"
[13:30] <larsselavy> AutoStatic,
[13:30] <larsselavy> (but we could reach it before, i don't know exactly what changed
[13:30] <larsselavy> )
[13:30] <AutoStatic> It'greyed out?
[13:30] <larsselavy> yeah
[13:30] <AutoStatic> Set Driver to ALSA
[13:31] <AutoStatic> Now itś  not
[14:56] <AutoStatic> larsselavy: Is it working?
[14:58] <larsselavy> AutoStatic, i'm sorry, an friend helped me on irc and i couldn't do both stuff you told me
[14:58] <larsselavy> so now it's working but i still don't know exactly how...
[14:59] <larsselavy> wa did a lot of things but the settings seemed to me the same that the first time I tried...
[14:59] <AutoStatic> Is JACK running now?
[15:51] <larsselavy> AutoStatic, yes
[15:53] <AutoStatic> larsselavy: what does ps -aux | grep jackd output?
[15:55] <larsselavy> grep: output: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
[15:55] <larsselavy> Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
[15:56] <holstein> ps -aux | grep jackd output
[15:56] <holstein> without the "?"... that was for you :)
[15:58] <larsselavy> yeah i know
[15:58] <larsselavy> ...
[15:58] <larsselavy> larsselavy@Lillith:~$ ps -aux | grep jackd output
[15:58] <larsselavy> Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
[15:58] <larsselavy> grep: output: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
[15:58] <larsselavy> larsselavy@Lillith:~$
[16:00] <holstein> how about ps aux | grep jackd output
[16:01] <larsselavy> larsselavy@Lillith:~$ ps aux | grep jackd output
[16:01] <larsselavy> grep: output: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
[16:01] <larsselavy> larsselavy@Lillith:~$
[16:01] <larsselavy> it's in french
[16:02] <larsselavy> it means no such file or directory
[16:05] <holstein> we'll have to wait on AutoStatic to reiterate, but i get output from ps aux | grep jackd
[16:06] <AutoStatic> larsselavy: I gotta go home :(
[16:07] <AutoStatic> larsselavy: #linuxmao ou #tangostudio ;)
[16:07] <holstein> yeah... and #opensourcemusicians :)
[16:08] <holstein> AutoStatic: o/
[16:43] <AutoStatic> Back for a while ;)


[08:08] <nhaines> pleia2: yes, there are redirects for all the old pages.  :)  https://community.ubuntu.com/t/referring-threads-to-more-appropriate-sites/690/7
[08:08] <darthrobot> Title: [Referring threads to more appropriate sites - Site Feedback - Ubuntu Community Hub]
[12:13] <pleia2> yay!
[12:14] <pleia2> hm, looks like they don't have them all :\ first link I tried wasn't included


[02:04] <RikMills> vorlon release team et al. tsimonq2 is no longer available to ack delegated FFe for kubuntu, so couild I ask for an ack on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-framework/+bug/1919083
[02:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (focal-proposed/main) [33.1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 33.1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop)
[09:08] <jibel> release team Laney could someone review this FFe bug 1918613
[09:13] <Laney> yeh
[09:15] <Laney> I'll look at it later on
[09:15] <Laney> we should clean up the release team's bugs so that it's easier to see what is outstanding
[10:55] <Laney> RikMills: you want to subscribe the release team if we're to see those bugs
[10:58] <RikMills> Laney: yeah, however Simon has since replied to me that will will ack that under the delegation, so probably best I do not for now
[10:58] <Laney> too late
[11:00] <RikMills> oh. thanks!
[11:06] <RikMills> For the record, we have FFe'd a frameworks release in at this stage for most recent cycles. Upstream are good at letting us know of any bugs that come to light and fixes to cherry pick
[12:13] <ddstreet> hello sil2100, we have a few srus for you to look at on your sru shift today https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/fGXmzRB4g2/
[12:13] <ddstreet> the highest priority is the neutron upload in the bionic queue please, that's quite critical
[12:14] <sil2100> o/
[12:14] <sil2100> Will do for sure, just want to finish the publishing part
[12:15] <ddstreet> thanks!
[13:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (xenial-proposed/main) [1.164 => 1.167~16.04.0] (core)
[13:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (bionic-proposed/main) [1.164 => 1.167~18.04.0] (core)
[15:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted neutron [source] (bionic-proposed) [2:12.1.1-0ubuntu4]
[15:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: alsa-ucm-conf (groovy-proposed/main) [1.2.2-1ubuntu5.1 => 1.2.2-1ubuntu5.2] (core)
[15:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: alsa-ucm-conf (focal-proposed/main) [1.2.2-1ubuntu0.5 => 1.2.2-1ubuntu0.6] (no packageset)
[15:44] <LocutusOfBorg> can anybody please push dkms and virtualbox-hwe to release pocket?
[15:44] <LocutusOfBorg> they are regressed due to new kernel, and virtualbox-hwe needs an hint on non *x86* like virtualbox did
[15:44] <LocutusOfBorg> vorlon, ^^ please?
[15:45] <LocutusOfBorg> only virtualbox-hwe needs an hint now
[16:31] <xnox> doko:  could i please get an upscore infinity on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2-signed/1.167/+build/21175106 ? it is a very quick build.
[16:31] <xnox> (cause by my estimates the build queue on amd64 is full for the next 48h)
[16:51] <cjwatson> xnox: done
[16:54] <cjwatson> the build queue on amd64 is currently trending in the wrong direction, so pretty hard to say ...
[16:54] <xnox> cjwatson:  thank you
[18:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-unsigned (bionic-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu42 => 2.04-1ubuntu44] (no packageset) (sync)
[18:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-unsigned (groovy-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu42 => 2.04-1ubuntu44] (no packageset) (sync)
[18:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-unsigned (focal-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu42 => 2.04-1ubuntu44] (no packageset) (sync)
[18:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-unsigned (xenial-proposed/main) [2.04-1ubuntu42 => 2.04-1ubuntu44] (no packageset) (sync)
[18:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (focal-proposed/main) [1.164 => 1.167] (core) (sync)
[18:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (groovy-proposed/main) [1.164 => 1.167] (core) (sync)
[18:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: lg-gpio (hirsute-proposed/primary) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[18:23] <sergiodj> sil2100: hey, any chance you're still there?  :)
[19:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted barbican [source] (focal-proposed) [1:10.0.0-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[19:45] <sil2100> sergiodj: hey! Only semi-around, what's up?
[19:47] <sergiodj> sil2100: hey, I pinged because I noticed you're (or was) on SRU duty today, and wanted to know if you could process the runc uploads to X/B/F/G
[19:47] <sergiodj> sil2100: we're blocked waiting for runc to be available on B/F
[19:47] <sergiodj> but if you're only semi-around, I'm afraid we'll have to leave it for tomorrow, right?
[20:10] <sil2100> Let me see what I can do about it! No promises tho!
[20:39] <sergiodj> sil2100: thanks :)
[23:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1067.75] (kernel)
[23:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1067.75~16.04.1] (kernel)


[10:27] <tseliot> jcristau, tjaalton: what package does it launch X with parameters such as "-bg" or "-fg" in debian and ubuntu? I can't remember
[10:41] <tseliot> ah, right it's /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc in xinit. Never mind
[21:42] <RAOF> Woop!  Woop!
[21:43] <RAOF> Nouveau is now faster, cleaner, smoother than nv, *and* *supports* *suspend*.
[21:51] <tormod> RAOF, cool. I copied your new stuff to xorg-edgers also. you might want to get a newer libdrm from there.
[21:51] <RAOF> tormod: Oh, should I be uploading there?
[21:52] <tormod> would be nice if you can copy the ddx and the modules package there, so people can get everything in one place
[21:52] <RAOF> In future I'll just upload straight there, then.
[21:53] <tormod> yeah
[21:53] <tormod> I was just thinking you wanted to let people test nouveau without updating the whole xorg stack
[21:54] <RAOF> Well, maybe.  So, I guess I'll upload it to both places.
[21:54] <tormod> but they would profit from newer mesa as well
[21:54] <RAOF> Not for nouveau they wouldn't.
[21:54] <RAOF> Surely we don't build the nouveau DRI module, do we?
[21:55] <tormod> you can do a no-build copy for the module package, and a rebuild-copy of the ddx
[21:55] <tormod> oh well I guess not
[21:55] <RAOF> Upstream would be most displeased if we were shipping their DRI :)
[21:58] <tormod> ok :) I just have seen various nv50 and nouveau commits but I guess that's forbidden fruit then
[21:59] <RAOF> Oh, apparently it works quite well - to the point of developers running compiz & such.
[21:59] <RAOF> It's just aggressively unsupported still.
[22:00] <tormod> ok, but users can profit from newer sw rendering then :)
[22:00] <RAOF> Fair 'nuff :)
[22:03] <RAOF> So, nouveau TODO: (1) enable kms by default in the ppa, so users get working suspend/resume. (2) play with the DRI. (3) Get people discussing nouveau as default open-source nvidia driver for lucid.
[22:03] <bryce> hi guys
[22:04] <RAOF> Howdie.
[22:13] <Amaranth> RAOF: I've been told nouveau with metacity or kwin compositing feels as fast as nvidia with compiz
[22:13] <Amaranth> so that's pretty cool, that means the XRender acceleration is _awesome_
[22:16] <RAOF> Amaranth: I think they're underplaying the speed of nouveau.  I find it _faster_ than nvidia with compiz.
[22:17] <Amaranth> hehe
[22:17] <RAOF> And, yes.  The XRender acceleration is _awesome_.
[22:17] <Amaranth> It's as good as intel but the hardware is like 6x faster
[22:17] <RAOF> Right.
[22:17] <Amaranth> hopefully people don't start thinking using cairo for video games is a good idea :)
[22:18] <RAOF> This ~3 year old 7600go is tremendously faster than my new intel laptop.
[22:42] <tormod> bryce, seems like a couple of intel issues out there in 9.10? what do you think?
[22:43] <bryce> tormod, which ones?
[22:43] <bryce> unfortunately all the checkbox bugs filed against X have been consuming my attention
[22:44] <tormod> hangs with i8xx (but that's maybe nothing new) and resolution problems on i915
[22:45] <tormod> but I am pretty new to intel bugs, so maybe it is just business as usual what I am seeing
[22:46] <bryce> the resolution problems could be due to dropped monitor quirks due to KMS
[22:46] <bryce> jbarnes might have an inkling
[22:46] <tormod> and some have upgrade issues because they have cruft in xorg.conf I think
[22:46] <bryce> yeah
[22:48] <tormod> what are checkbox bugs?
[22:48] <jbarnes> tormod: not sure if the 8xx fixes are in the ubuntu kernel (I think most should be) but there have definitely been a lot of fixes in that area in the past few months
[22:48] <jbarnes> 9xx resolution stuff is new to me, what are you seeing?
[22:50] <tormod> for instance bug 433326
[22:53] <jbarnes> sounds like it's failing to get a decent edid?
[22:54] <jbarnes> hm no xrandr looks good
[22:54] <jbarnes> indicates things are running at 1360x768 even
[23:03] <bryce> tormod, checkbox bugs -> there is now a 'System Test' tool under the System menu, which after you go through it lets you file bug reports against xorg
[23:03] <bryce> bug 448913 is an example
[23:04] <bryce> bunch more are in the xorg package that I haven't had time to move/close/deal-with
[23:05] <bryce> jbarnes, on that bug I gather they hardcoded the h/v sync rates in xorg.conf to get their resolution
[23:05] <tormod> bryce, great report there ;)
[23:07] <bryce> bug 471246 is more typical
[23:08] <pwnguin> RAOF: the only place where it's slow is with the UNR clutter UI
[23:08] <bryce> jbarnes, ^ what do you think?  I'm not even certain what info is needed to debug such an issue
[23:08] <jbarnes> xrandr --prop from a startup w/o an xorg.conf
[23:08] <RAOF> pwnguin: Well, have you actually installed the DRI component?  Otherwise you're not really testing nouveau, you're testing how good mesa's software rasteriser is!
[23:09] <jbarnes> that would tell us if it finds an edid at least
[23:09] <bryce> jbarnes, wouldn't xrandr --verbose show the same?
[23:09] <bryce> (that's what is attached by default)
[23:09] <jbarnes> yeah that should have it, maybe I missed that
[23:10] <bryce> oh wait
[23:10] <bryce> checkbox seems to only use -q not --verbose
[23:10] <jbarnes> oops
[23:10] <bryce> wow, it's even more useless than I had thought


[11:36] <ali1234> is there a reason why the firefox daily and aurora ppas for vivid are six weeks behind all the others?
[11:39] <ali1234> wrong channel, sorry
[16:37] <dobey> ali1234: yeah, vivid is end of life
[16:37] <ali1234> vivid is only 5 months old
[16:39] <ali1234> wait what letter are we on now?
[16:41] <ogra_> ali1234, non LTS only has 9 months support ... vivid was 15.04 ... we are at W until april 21st
[16:42] <ali1234> what's 16.04 called?
[16:42] <ogra_> xeanial xerus
[16:42] <ali1234> i thought it was W
[16:42] <ogra_> *xenial
[16:45] <ali1234> you know whwen you think it's wednesday but really it's thursday?
[16:45] <ali1234> well i think i lost six months somehow
[16:51] <dobey> 15.10 is wily
[16:51] <dobey> and wily support ends in july
[16:53] <ali1234> since i've got your attention, any idea how i can debug why indicator-messages is spamming authentication requests when the screen is locked?
[16:53] <ali1234> (on xubuntu)
[16:54] <ali1234> i gather it is related to SetXHasMessages in accounts service, and has previously been a problem with network logins, but i am not using a network login
[16:59] <dobey> i have no idea
[17:15] <ahayzen> Hi, i've noticed a few times on Ubuntu 15.04, after a long uptime/multiple suspend+resume cycles indicator-session-service climbs in memory, it is up to around 1GiB currently. Is this a known issue? can i debug it in anyway? From system monitor memory maps i can see it states there are multiple blocks with 64/128MiB of "private dirty"
[17:23] <ahayzen> on *Ubuntu 15.10 :-)
[18:21] <JanC> ahayzen: same for hud-service, unity-panel-service, etc. (lots of long-running programs/services suffer from it)
[18:22] <JanC> usually most of that will be swapped out to disk fortunately
[18:22] <ahayzen> JanC, hmmm but they are all fine ~100MiB (yeah i've seen hud-service grow once or twice) but this indicator-session-service seems to be a consistent issue
[18:23] <JanC> what memory statistic do you look at?
[18:23] <ahayzen> the on shown as default in gnome-system-monitor
[18:23] <ahayzen> ...maybe i should add some more of the columns...
[18:24] <ahayzen> has basically the same value for Resident Memory
[18:24] <JanC> seems like that's RES (resident memory), in which case it's really a lot indeed
[18:25] <ahayzen> when i show the memory maps, sort them by 'private dirty' i can see a few at 128MiB and then a few at 64MiB
[18:26] <JanC> seems like it's Resident minus Shared
[18:27] <JanC> or Resident minus Shared plus X
[18:27] <JanC> hud-service is 582 MiB for me...
[18:29] <ahayzen> JanC, this is what my system-monitor looks like https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMdGhaLW1zMEk0d2M/view
[19:07] <sethj> hey guys, I'm working on Unity Tweak Tool, and a lot of people are asking if it will be updated to include moving the launcher to the bottom (a lot of news sites have been running that story), however my understanding is that the patch that allows this has not been merged into trunk and now that the UI freeze has happened isn't likely to get merged. Does anyone know specifics about this?
[20:25] <robert_ancell> pitti, did you ever come up with a clever workaround for bug 1334597?


[02:07] <shwag> regarding  https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/serverguide/C/network-configuration.html
[02:07] <shwag> shouldnt the example block starting with "iface eth1 inet static"   include the "auto eth1" line as the example above it does ?
[02:07] <robotgeek> one sec
[02:09] <robotgeek> yes, if you want it to come up at boot
[08:31] <poolkey172> anyone home ?
[08:48] <mdke> morning
[08:49] <mdke> Laser_away: sure, I guess so. Go ahead and add it to the page
[08:49] <Burgundavia> morning mdke
[08:49] <Burgundavia> Mako has a good blog post, no?
[08:50] <mdke> I need to read it
[08:50] <mdke> nixternal: still breaking string freeze!!??
[08:51] <mdke> Burgundavia: yes. I agree completely
[08:55] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: why are you not on planet.ubuntu ?
[08:58] <mdke> Burgundavia: do you know if there is anyone actually in favour of shipping binary drivers?
[08:58] <mdke> all the developers I've seen comment are against it
[08:58] <Burgundavia> Mark and the beryl people
[08:58] <mdke> Mark?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> sabdfl
[08:59] <mdke> oh god
[08:59] <Burgundavia> that was apparently how it broke down at UDS
[08:59] <Burgundavia> nobody else would have the power to make it go on this long
[08:59] <mdke> strange.
[09:00] <mdke> he knows full well that if free software is to succeed, it has to do it on its own terms, not by giving up in certain areas
[09:00] <Burgundavia> jono and I talked about it
[09:00] <Burgundavia> he and Mark seemed to be concerned we need to do this to "achieve parity" with other OSes
[09:01] <Burgundavia> basically, if it is not beautiful, they won't come
[09:01] <mdke> Yeah, I know the argument
[09:01] <mdke> That doesn't work, I don't think
[09:02] <mdke> it runs up against the slippery slope problem
[09:02] <Burgundavia> I argued that we can cleanup our icons and make better artwork and win more people over
[09:02] <Burgundavia> plus, if we are going to further go down that path, it strikes me we should be solving the multimedia issue before the bling one
[09:02] <mdke> users will come to expect us to ship non-free software to compete, and we'll come to depend on it
[09:03] <Mithrandir> drivers have always been special, though
[09:03] <Burgundavia> yes, they have
[09:03] <Burgundavia> however, Mako makes an excellent point about just working != extra bling
[09:04] <Mithrandir> it's a fine line to draw.
[09:04] <Burgundavia> something I said to Jono when we talked on Sunday
[09:04] <Mithrandir> (is dual screen working bling or not?)
[09:04] <Burgundavia> and Jono pointed that out. For some, just working == bling
[09:04] <mdke> coming to depend on non-free software is really dangerous though, not just for our own sake, but also because it doesn't give those who won't open up the incentive to change
[09:04] <mdke> and to see that free software can work as a model
[09:05] <mdke> if Mark believes that it can work, he should stick to it
[09:05] <Burgundavia> however, I still hold that if we are going to sacrifice our freedom further, we should solve the multimedia issue first
[09:05] <mdke> well, we are solving it
[09:06] <mdke> install on demand for codecs is a solution
[09:06] <Burgundavia> we can do the same for drivers then
[09:06] <mdke> 100% agreed
[09:07] <crimsun> I've always found it interesting that people are willing to "look the other way" for, say, wifi drivers
[09:07] <mdke> that's true.
[09:10] <mdke> Mithrandir: changing the subject, any ideas on that freeze thing?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> mdke: for stable releases, I think we should require that any string changes are either accompanied by translation updates (for non-typo fixes)
[09:12] <Mithrandir> or are just typo fixes, in which case the translation ought to not have the typo
[09:14] <Mithrandir> for normal string freezes, I think having the same rules in effect, but be a bit more lax in what updates we accept.
[09:14] <Mithrandir> (the stable updates have to go through the full SRU procedure which is enough, I believe)
[09:14] <Mithrandir> mdke: ^^ thoughts?
[09:16] <mdke> Mithrandir: just reminding myself of what the SRU procedure is
[09:17] <mdke> Mithrandir: string changes don't satisfy anything in the "When" section
[09:17] <Mithrandir> instructions which are directly harmful is an example of the last one.
[09:18] <mdke> Mithrandir: ah, ok. So only things like that
[09:18] <mdke> that sounds sensible
[09:18] <Mithrandir> you could argue a glaring typo (think misspelling "Ubuntu" in the main help title) is a severe regression from the previous release.
[09:19] <Mithrandir> apart from those kind of things, I don't think stable releases should be updated.  They're released, after all.
[09:19] <mdke> yeah, ok.
[09:20] <mdke> the procedure for determining which bugs can be addressed in the unstable release?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> sru
[09:22] <mdke> eh?
[09:22] <mdke> that's a bit stiff
[09:22] <Mithrandir> string freeze is about three weeks prior to release (for edgy), about a month and a half prior to release for feisty, so the procedure could be roughly what it is for other package updates:  - maintainer's call until the archive's frozen (but soliciting input from a release team member is of course of), - release manager's call after that.
[09:23] <mdke> sounds fine.
[09:23] <Mithrandir> we don't want to freeze it too deeply too early; if so, the freezes are useless (since they'll be equivalent for a release, from a string pov)
[09:23] <mdke> what were you going to say after "is of course of"
[09:24] <Mithrandir> s/of/ok/
[09:24] <Mithrandir> so "is of course ok"
[09:24] <mdke> gotcha
[09:25] <mdke> thanks for your help
[09:25] <Mithrandir> we need to write this down as a procedure somewhere, probably on the StringFreeze page; can one of you do that?
[09:25] <mdke> sure
[09:26] <Mithrandir> I'll be happy to review it to make sure it matches my interpretation of what we agreed to.
[09:26] <mdke> i've started doing that
[09:26] <Mithrandir> excellent, thanks.  Please ping me when it's shaping up.
[09:28] <mdke> Mithrandir: ping
[09:28] <Mithrandir> oh, you're quick.  *chuckles*
[09:28] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationStringFreeze
[09:29] <Mithrandir> how do we communicate with translators to ensure they get the message about updates?
[09:30] <mdke> by mailing list
[09:30] <mdke> I'll add that
[09:32] <Mithrandir> hmm, we understood that you wanted just one string freeze, not a docstringfreeze and a stringfreeze when we did the release schedule.  Is that wrong?
[09:34] <mdke> I haven't heard anything about that
[09:34] <mdke> traditionally DocumentationStringFreeze has always been separate to the programs string freeze
[09:35] <mdke> but since StringFreeze seems quite late, it sounds fine to me to have them at the same time
[09:39] <mdke> Mithrandir: the only problem might be where an application changes a string and this affects the documentation. That's the case with menu entries.
[09:39] <mdke> it would be nice to get warning of late-ish changes of that nature
[09:41] <mdke> still, since in the past docSF seems to have come before normal SF, I suppose this is an improvement :)
[09:50] <Mithrandir> mdke: I'll be happy to work with you on finding something which works for you; I must say I'm fairly string-ignorant myself so it's not one of the itches I scratch..
[09:52] <mdke> Mithrandir: alright, thanks. Let's leave it like this and see
[02:00] <jsgotangco> ive transferred ownership of ubuntu-doc in lp to mdke just fyi
[03:45] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: i emailed Jeff Waugh a couple of times, but i got no response. i just gave up
[05:04] <nixternal> mdke: the only reason i did that is because we don't ship nor translate that doc
[07:11] <shwag> it would be nice if  /etc/network/interfaces  by default had a bunch of commented out lines showing how to do basic things like a static ip address assignment.
[07:12] <LaserJock> I suppose the idea is that you shouldn't have to mess around with it unless you know what you're doing
[07:12] <LaserJock> but I don't find that we are quite there :-)
[08:07] <LaserJock> nixternal: ping
[08:23] <LaserJock> mdke: ping
[08:48] <mdke> LaserJock: hello?
[08:49] <mdke> nixternal: ah, I didn't realise it wasn't shipped. In that case, it shouldn't even be in the branch
[08:49] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm, what was I going to say
[08:49] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[08:49] <LaserJock> did you do a spec for building doc team tools?
[08:50] <mdke> LaserJock: yes, I mailed it to you! Lemme dig it out
[08:51] <mdke> LaserJock: it needs a lot of work.
[08:51] <mdke> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/simplify-ubuntu-docs-build-process <- LaserJock
[08:52] <LaserJock> I found it
[08:52] <LaserJock> ok, I wanted to add it to my todo list
[08:52] <mdke> wow!
[08:53] <LaserJock> but I couldn't remember if we had a spec for it or not
[08:53] <mdke> one often requested feature is to add support for individual translation maintainers to import a single language. We'll have to look at adding that
[08:53] <mdke> let's work together. It's already a lot better than it was for Edgy
[08:53] <mdke> {everyone} the presentation is starting soon for the Open Week. Who is attending?
[08:53] <LaserJock> I'll be around
[08:54] <LaserJock> well, I see what I can do
[08:55] <LaserJock> I already have a ton of things to do for Feisty
[08:55] <mdke> sure
[08:55] <LaserJock> trying to make core-dev soonish
[08:55] <mdke> we'll prioritise parts of it
[08:55] <mdke> ah, nice. About time
[08:55] <LaserJock> anyway, at least finishing a spec of and writing down what we want
[08:56] <LaserJock> we can even get some interested person to do the actual coding
[08:56] <LaserJock> if we don't have time to do it all
[08:56] <mdke> yeah
[08:56] <LaserJock> but I do enjoy doing this shell/python scripting stuff
[08:57] <mdke> do you know how to get shell scripts to take arguments?
[08:57] <LaserJock> sure
[08:57] <mdke> ok, that should be enough :)
[08:57] <LaserJock> python has better handling of them
[08:57] <LaserJock> but it's certainly possible in a shell script
[08:57] <LaserJock> much of /usr/bin is a shell script ;-)
[08:57] <mdke> ok. It's mainly debian/rules and the translate.sh scripts that need work
[08:58] <LaserJock> yeah, I think a good general approach is to write some individual shell scripts
[08:58] <LaserJock> that do a particular task, like translate.sh
[08:58] <LaserJock> and then pull them all together in a nice package with python
[08:58] <LaserJock> in MOTU we have something similar
[08:59] <mdke> oh bloody hell. The open week presentation is tomorrow, not today.
[08:59] <LaserJock> oh
[08:59] <LaserJock> oh right, simon's on now
[08:59] <mdke> yeah
[08:59] <mdke> alright, I'll do something else this evening then
[09:00] <mdke> cya soon!
[09:00] <LaserJock> cya
[09:04] <Burgwork> mdke: how do you edit the fridge calendar?
[09:08] <nixternal> LaserJock: pong?
[09:08] <LaserJock> nixternal: regarding bzr
[09:08] <nixternal> did i break it?
[09:08] <LaserJock> bzr checks out the entire history of the repo
[09:08] <LaserJock> svn doesn't
[09:09] <nixternal> ahh
[09:09] <LaserJock> so that's why it is slower to grab and larger
[09:09] <LaserJock> but the whole history of the repo is local
[09:09] <nixternal> ok, so say for instance, i do a booboo and commit to the dapper repo, i can bzr revert it instantly ?
[09:09] <nixternal>  ;)
[09:09] <LaserJock> yes
[09:09] <LaserJock> at least locally
[09:09] <LaserJock> you commit locally
[09:09] <LaserJock> publish remotely
[09:09] <nixternal> if you branch you commit locally
[09:09] <nixternal> if you checkout you commit regular
[09:10] <LaserJock> right
[09:10] <LaserJock> bzr can basically be run in an "SVN" mode
[09:10] <nixternal> ya, that is the same as doing a checkout
[09:11] <nixternal> i have Ichthux branched, or used to branch, and i would commit locally and then push
[09:11] <nixternal> my only issue with Bazaar would be 1) To slow, and 2) Space consuming
[09:11] <nixternal> s/issue/issues
[09:11] <LaserJock> on the other hand
[09:12] <LaserJock> you can go to a computer that has fast internet and download the repo to a usb stick
[09:12] <LaserJock> and you have the complete history with you
[09:12] <nixternal> i have an 8mb down connection, is that fast enough?
[09:12] <nixternal> and it still took over an hour to do a checkout
[09:12] <LaserJock> yep
[09:12] <LaserJock> but we can also make a tarball
[09:12] <nixternal> the problem isn't bandwidth, i can tell you that now
[09:13] <nixternal> i sniffed packets and watched them drop constantly at the bazaar server
[09:13] <LaserJock> the easiest thing for people to use would be a tarball of the repo
[09:14] <LaserJock> yeah, there's some issues for sure
[09:14] <LaserJock> for a long time (not sure if it still does it) bzr would die on my home DSL router
[09:14] <LaserJock> because it made so many DNS requests
[09:14] <LaserJock> so a bzr branch would fail 4 out of 5 times
[09:16] <nixternal> ya, it is quite horrid..but i think as soon as they get that fixed it will rock on..definitely a bright future for it
[09:17] <LaserJock> yes, I think between the latest releases of bzr and having access to bazaar.launchpad.net we might be able to make it work
[09:17] <LaserJock> the nice thing about bazaar.launchpad.net is we have an easy way to control access
[09:17] <nixternal> w/o a doubt that is a nice thing about it
[09:18] <LaserJock> however, svn has been working fine for us so far, with the exception of access control
[09:19] <nixternal> well, access control hasn't been that big of an issue has it? mdke pretty much requests it through rt and boom usually within a day it is taken care of
[09:20] <LaserJock> it certainly wasn't always that way
[09:21] <LaserJock> it took me something like a month to get mine
[09:21] <LaserJock> but that's way back when elmo did everything
[09:22] <nixternal> ya
[09:22] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure why Riddell is pushing bzr so much
[09:22] <nixternal> what is cool with Bazaar is you can sign your commits and everythign just like you would packaging
[09:22] <LaserJock> I know he lost his svn password
[09:22] <nixternal> hehe
[09:22] <LaserJock> but surely he can get that back
[09:23] <nixternal> well, i think the Bazaar push might be coming from higher maybe?  I know pretty much every project is utilizing it to some extent
[09:23] <nixternal> uniformity
[09:23] <dsas> possibly it's just easier to only have to remember one RCS.
[09:23] <LaserJock> perhaps
[09:23] <nixternal> dsas: that is true...i started checking out instead of branching with bzr to make it more svn like
[09:24] <LaserJock> but KDE isn't using bzr
[09:24] <LaserJock> so I would think he'd be used to using svn anyway
[09:24] <nixternal> well KDE isn't "buntu" either
[09:24] <LaserJock> sure
[09:24] <LaserJock> but I'm just saying for him I'd bet he still uses svn a fair amount
[09:24] <nixternal> i know that Riddell uses bzr for the kubuntu-default-settings
[09:25] <LaserJock> well, bzr should be used for most ubuntu packaging tasks
[09:25] <nixternal> of course...he does a lot of committing to KDE, so he is using svn like mad on a daily basis
[09:25] <LaserJock> that's pretty normal
[09:25] <LaserJock> anyway
[09:25] <LaserJock> I know there is a push for us to use bzr
[09:25] <LaserJock> and I like it
[09:25] <LaserJock> but IMO it just doesn't seem to fit our repo well
[09:26] <LaserJock> we don't really need the decentralized aspects
[09:26] <LaserJock> the only nice thing I can see is using the LP team for access control
[09:27] <nixternal> ya...i am for whatever works honestly
[09:28] <nixternal> svn works and so does bzr..i will let the politicians choose
[09:28] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:49] <Mithrandir> LaserJock: you're aware that bzr can check out svn directly?
[10:49] <LaserJock> how so?
[10:49] <LaserJock> bzr can checkout a svn repo?
[10:49] <Mithrandir> install bzr-svn, do bzr branch svn+ssh://host/repo
[10:49] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:50] <LaserJock> I don't know if that's be much help to us
[10:50] <LaserJock> perhaps
[10:50] <LaserJock> that's a very cool idea
[10:50] <Mithrandir> oh, more as a comment to the "but riddell has to use svn anyway" bit you said.
[10:50] <LaserJock> ah
[10:50] <LaserJock> yes, that makes sense
[10:55] <mdke> Burgwork: add an event
[10:55] <mdke> Burgwork: or edit an existing one
[10:56] <Burgwork> ok, I will add another one
[10:58] <Burgwork> mdke: do I need a body?
[10:59] <mdke> Burgwork: yeah, it's desirable, although not technically necessary
[11:00] <Burgwork> ok
[11:01] <mdke> nixternal: note that you can also use revert with svn
[11:16] <mdke> what do people think of the categories on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TopicBasedHelp? Any ideas for reshuffling/adding/removing them?
[11:18] <LaserJock> seems good to me
[11:18] <stelis> Perhaps split Internet into "Web" and an Email+IM topic
[11:19] <LaserJock> I guess I would put "#
[11:19] <LaserJock> I guess I would put "Adding, Removing and Updating Applications
[11:19] <LaserJock> #
[11:19] <LaserJock> higher
[11:19] <LaserJock> sorry, that didn't come out right ;-)
[11:21] <mdke> got it. I don't get the Internet split though
[11:21] <mdke> maybe we could merge "Administrative Tasks" into Linux Basics, and move "Add/Remove etc" up to follow that
[11:22] <stelis> There's a lot of overlap between Email and IM, but not much between Web browsing and messaging
[11:22] <mdke> stelis: what do you mean by overlap?
[11:22] <stelis> Plus people may tend to look specifically for an Email topic
[11:23] <stelis> They work very similarly (conceptually)
[11:23] <mdke> If anything, I can see a reason to separate "Connecting to the internet" from "Using the Internet", but I don't think we have enough space to start treating a single internet task separately to others
[11:25] <stelis> Well, I tend to the think of "Internet" as a technical bracket, more than one that end-users use
[11:25] <stelis> I agree that connectivity is a different issue to using the Internet
[11:26] <mdke> hmm. Maybe "Using the Internet" and "Communicating" or something similar
[11:26] <mdke> but, the applications menu groups internet applications... so keeping that would be an advantage
[11:27] <stelis> I suppose it depends on how task orientated you want the topics to be
[11:27] <dsas> I'd wager that most people use email through their browser.
[11:28] <dsas> Communicating seems vague too.
[11:29] <mdke> let's cling to the menu structure a bit
[11:32] <dsas> "Using your desktop" should probably be "using your computer"
[11:34] <dsas> Or something, it doesn't seem obvious to me what is in there, but based on my knowledge of the DG the games/office/photos sections?
[11:34] <stelis> http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide
[11:34] <mdke> well, those have separate sections
[11:34] <mdke> it would be the Gnome user guide, basically
[11:34] <dsas> ah, cool.
[11:34] <mdke> maybe we can come up with a better description though, definitely
[11:35] <stelis> For comparison
[11:42] <nixternal> g'nite