[02:21] <jacklyn> hi
[07:41] <geochr> Good morning from Greece
[07:51] <geochr> I reported a bug a few months ago, please check it and give your help...I think that this bug report affects many teams an not only the Greek team.
[07:51] <geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/1266090
[07:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1266090 in LoCo Team Portal "Feed photos on loco portal team's page from other services expect Flickr or Picasa" [Undecided,New]
[08:20] <dholbach> good morning
[09:49] <daker> geochr: OK i'll take a look at it
[09:59] <geochr> thanks daker
[14:19] <mhall119> geochr: does your team's photo gallery have an API that the loco team portal can query to get those photos?
[14:24] <geochr> mhall119, i can't give you a certenly answer, but i can ask our admins for sure.
[14:25] <geochr> mhall119, what excatly do you want to answer them?
[14:26] <mhall119> geochr: we'll just need a way to get a list of picture URLs that doesn't involve screen-scrapping through your HTML content
[14:27] <mhall119> also, if this is a WP or Drupal plugin you're using, something other teams can use, that would be best. We can't maintain separate import methods for each team
[14:29] <geochr> mhall119, i understand that is impossible to make one methoth for its team, i don't ask this for Greek team
[14:30] <geochr> i want a way diferent from Picassa and Flick
[14:31] <geochr> If there is a new method which can use it all team, it would be great
[14:32] <geochr> otherwise you can give us a suggestion to fix our photogallery in order to fitted to loco portal
[14:38] <mhall119> geochr: we implemented functions for the handful of services we knew people were using (that also provided an API), we can add more if you want to use something different
[14:41] <geochr> so you suggest us to add an API on our photogallery and then we are able to set the loco portal, am i correct?
[14:44] <geochr> mhall119, I don't have administration knowledges, so if you can tell me what i must ask you our admins, or make a post in the bug.
[14:49] <mhall119> geochr: my desire is (1) to have an API at all, and (2) to have something that more than one team is going to use
[14:53] <geochr> ok i will discuss with the team and i will be back
[14:55] <geochr> mhall119, the option (2) is the soloution is preferred, i don't want something specific for ubuntu Greece


[07:40] <chesedo> morning all
[12:29] <ebusuku> hi all
[12:30] <ebusuku> does anybody here use django?
[13:32] <poppingtonic> ebusuku: o/
[14:48] <chesedo> hi ebusuku
[14:49] <chesedo> a lot of the py guys do irrc
[14:49] <chesedo> superfly theblazehen paddatrapper ^
[14:50] <paddatrapper> chesedo: well sort of. Haven't touched python in a while
[14:50] <theblazehen> I do python, never really used Django
[14:54] <superfly> rather use Flask
[14:55] <superfly> there's this large myth that Django == Python, but honestly, Django is very unpythonic (I have to use it at work)
[14:57]  * chesedo just learned something new
[16:03] <paddatrapper> superfly: TIL - flask was started as a April Fools' joke
[16:05] <paddatrapper> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2010/4/3/april-1st-post-mortem/
[16:05] <superfly> paddatrapper: yep
[16:06] <superfly> paddatrapper: be careful of these python guys, they do useful stuff :-P
[16:07] <paddatrapper> superfly: yep, and they organise big conferences too :) (the flask discussion stemmed from a pyconza site visit today)
[16:08] <superfly> paddatrapper: oh, you getting into PyCon too now?
[16:08] <paddatrapper> superfly: I'm already stuck :) tumbleweed dragged me in last year
[16:08] <superfly> paddatrapper: yeah, that tumbleweed guy, he's good at doing that :-P
[16:09] <superfly> (guess how I ended up at DebConf last year)
[16:10] <tumbleweed> :P
[16:10] <superfly> :-)
[16:10]  * tumbleweed can be bad like that
[16:10] <tumbleweed> also, o/ while I'm (briefly) in ZA
[16:11] <superfly> tumbleweed: I enjoyed every minute of it, thank you!
[16:11] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: o/ didn't realise you'd arrived already
[16:11]  * superfly <3's Amazon same day delivery
[16:11] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: I'm in transit
[16:12] <tumbleweed> I'm heading home to SF
[16:12] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: ah I see. Safe travels
[16:13] <paddatrapper> superfly: I'd be happy with Amazon any day deliver (without massive import/shipping costs)
[16:13]  * tumbleweed has literally been in the country for a couple of hours, and can see his plane home, outside :/
[16:14] <superfly> paddatrapper: Yeah, Takealot has nothing on Amazon.
[16:14] <paddatrapper> superfly: and half the selection
[16:14]  * paddatrapper wants to get a yubi key
[16:14] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: I can bring you one
[16:15]  * tumbleweed has distributed quite a few of those in ZA :P
[16:15] <superfly> paddatrapper: My dad is visiting us in November, I can get him to bring one back with him.
[16:15] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: thanks, that would be awesome. When are you coming back?
[16:16] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: whenever you guys tell me to (see the pyconza vido channel)
[16:16] <paddatrapper> superfly: Hehe, thanks
[16:16] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: set up is 5 October, event is 6 and 7. Will post more details to that channel in a bit
[16:17]  * tumbleweed must go and catch a plane in a bit too
[19:47] <magespawn> good evening all
[20:18] <pavlushka> evening magespawn


[10:47] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[16:10] <InHisName> your.worshipfulness ???
[16:10] <pleia2> :D
[16:11] <pleia2> (Han Solo calls Leia that in the first Star Wars movie)
[16:11] <pleia2> it's funny
[16:25] <waltman> :)


[18:58] <matsubara> moo
[18:59] <al-maisan> :-)
[18:59] <Rinchen> ah what the hey
[18:59] <Rinchen> #startmeeting
[18:59] <Rinchen> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
[18:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is Rinchen.
[18:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:59] <Rinchen> cluck
[18:59] <sinzui> thunk
[18:59] <bigjools> moo
[19:00] <Ursinha> me
[19:00] <barry> squeek
[19:00] <Rinchen> oh yeah
[19:00] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
[19:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
[19:00] <mrevell> me
[19:00] <Rinchen> cluck
[19:00] <allenap> me
[19:00] <adeuring> me
[19:00] <bac> oink
[19:00] <matsubara> me
[19:00] <mars> me
[19:00] <barry> me
[19:00] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[19:00] <sinzui> thunk
[19:00] <Ursinha> me
[19:00] <matsubara> the launchpad farm
[19:00] <bigjools> baa
[19:00] <salgado> me
[19:00] <Rinchen> releases team is here
[19:00] <Rinchen> even though we're excused!
[19:00] <Rinchen> Translations won't be here
[19:01] <al-maisan> me
[19:01] <Rinchen> bjorn and francis are excused
[19:01] <stub> me
[19:01] <Rinchen> mthaddon is also excused
[19:01] <thumper> me
[19:01] <Rinchen> barry, can you report on foundations for me
[19:01] <stub> jtv and danilo are on a sprint
[19:01] <barry> Rinchen: sure
[19:01] <intellectronica> me
[19:02] <Rinchen> intellectronica, can you check on the bugs team please
[19:02] <salgado> foundations is here too
[19:02] <Rinchen> rockstar ping?
[19:02] <barry> leonardr: ping
[19:02] <rockstar> me
[19:02] <Rinchen> ok code is here
[19:02] <mars> leonardr, meeting?
[19:02] <leonardr> me
[19:02] <abentley> me
[19:02] <bigjools> cprov: ping
[19:02] <salgado> apart from leonardr, that is. :)
[19:02] <salgado> no we're complete
[19:02] <barry> foundations is here
[19:02] <Rinchen> soyuz?
[19:02] <salgado> now
[19:02] <Rinchen> I saw al-maisan.  cprov? bigjools ?
[19:02] <bigjools> one missing, Celsooooo?
[19:03] <thumper> code is here
[19:03] <Rinchen> thanks
[19:03] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
[19:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[19:03] <cprov> me
[19:03] <Rinchen> you'll notice that mrevell is no longer reporting on his sections by design
[19:03] <Rinchen> these will now be brought up on demand
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Next meeting
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Oops report (matsubara/ursinha)
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Bug tags
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
[19:03] <Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:04] <Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
[19:04] <Rinchen> * user affecting issue (intellectronica)
[19:04] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
[19:04] <Rinchen> next week same time
[19:04] <matsubara> I won't be here
[19:04] <Rinchen> k, thanks
[19:04] <Rinchen> anyone else
[19:05] <Rinchen> Francis will as well
[19:05] <Rinchen> [AGREED] same time same place on the 14th.  flacoste and matsubara are excused
[19:05] <MootBot> AGREED received:  same time same place on the 14th.  flacoste and matsubara are excused
[19:05] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
[19:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
[19:05] <Rinchen> there are none recorded
[19:06] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (matsubara/ursinha)
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (matsubara/ursinha)
[19:06] <Ursinha> hi all
[19:06]  * Ursinha waves
[19:06] <Ursinha> 5 bugs for today: 174480, 252695, 251569, 255816 and 246591
[19:06] <Rinchen> (rockstar, bring your boat - flash floods here today)
[19:06] <Ursinha> Someone of foundations is needed to take a look at bug 255816. Anyone?
[19:07] <Ursinha> two bugs for salgado: bug 252695 and bug 251569, how are these?
[19:07] <barry> i can look at 255816
[19:07] <Ursinha> barry, nice, thanks
[19:07] <salgado> Ursinha, 252695 is on PQM
[19:07] <salgado> Ursinha, didn't have a chance to look at the other
[19:08] <Ursinha> salgado, when you have the time, please :)
[19:08] <matsubara> barry, notice that the fix might be similar to whatever we did to fix bug 54944
[19:08] <barry> matsubara: thanks
[19:08] <Ursinha> ok
[19:08] <Ursinha> bug 246591, thumper, have you checked this out with mwhudson?
[19:08] <Ursinha> grrr
[19:09] <thumper> Ursinha: he hasn't been online since we chatted last night
[19:09] <Ursinha> thumper, oh
[19:09] <thumper> Ursinha: I'll chase this morning
[19:09] <Ursinha> thumper, ok, thanks
[19:09] <Ursinha> the last one
[19:09] <Ursinha> intellectronica, have news on bug 174480?
[19:10] <intellectronica> Ursinha: sorry, not yet
[19:10] <Ursinha> intellectronica, would be appreciated too :)
[19:10] <Rinchen> [AGREED] barry to look at 255816, salgado has fix for 252695 in PQM, salgado to look at 251569, thumper to poke mwh about 246591, intellectronica to take on 174480.  Thanks guys!
[19:10] <MootBot> AGREED received:  barry to look at 255816, salgado has fix for 252695 in PQM, salgado to look at 251569, thumper to poke mwh about 246591, intellectronica to take on 174480.  Thanks guys!
[19:10] <Ursinha> that's all folks
[19:10] <Ursinha> thanks!
[19:10] <matsubara> thanks all!
[19:11] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[19:11] <Rinchen> [LINK]https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/251869
[19:11] <Rinchen> needs an owner
[19:11] <Rinchen> [LINK]https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/253970
[19:11] <Rinchen> Edwin, how is this progessing
[19:11] <MootBot> LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/251869
[19:11] <MootBot> LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/253970
[19:11] <Rinchen> and I've already spoken to jtv about
[19:11] <Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/255758
[19:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/255758
[19:11] <Rinchen> Starting next week, QA will be taking over this section! Yippee :-)
[19:11] <Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs, ^^
[19:12] <Rinchen> salgado, I know you have a lot on your plate. Is there someone who could look at 251869 though?
[19:12] <Rinchen> it's marked as CRITICAL
[19:12] <Rinchen> I'm not so sure it is
[19:12] <salgado> that's exactly what I was going to say
[19:12] <salgado> I don't agree it's critical
[19:13] <EdwinGrubbs> Rinchen: It has already been cherry picked. Sorry I forgot to mark the ticket Fix Released.
[19:13] <salgado> it has prevented a couple users from merging their accounts, and in both cases a LP admin was able to do the merge for them
[19:13] <Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs, excellent. Please include the RF number in there if it is not already.
[19:14] <Rinchen> ok salgado I've lowered that one
[19:14] <Rinchen> ok, that's it from me.
[19:14] <Rinchen> Anything else before I move on?
[19:15] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug Tags
[19:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Tags
[19:15] <Rinchen> we have one
[19:15] <Rinchen> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
[19:15] <Rinchen> two actually
[19:15] <Rinchen> first up, mrevell - tour tag
[19:15] <mrevell> Hello. We have bugs filed against the launchpad-documentation project that cover several things - e.g. user guide, tour, and so on.
[19:16] <mrevell> It would be handy to be able to group together anything relating to the tour as we then hand the changes off to a specific developer/outside designer.
[19:16] <intellectronica> i think the tour should be a product
[19:16] <sinzui> +1
[19:16] <Rinchen> sinzui, on the tag or the product suggestion?
[19:16] <mrevell> intellectronica: Why would a product be more suitable?
[19:17] <mpt> It doesn't have separate source code
[19:17] <sinzui> We don't need a tag, the tour is autonomous from launchpad apps
[19:17] <intellectronica> mrevell: because it's not a subclass of bugs of any one lp product. it's a pretty self contained piece of functionality
[19:17] <Rinchen> I think mrevell's point is that it already has a product, called launchpad-documentation
[19:18] <sinzui> it is /more/ separate than answers or bus
[19:18] <Rinchen> but there are other items that use that product as well
[19:18] <intellectronica> that's not the same thing
[19:18] <Rinchen> and he'd like to have a way of keeping them separate
[19:18] <Rinchen> is that right mrevell ?
[19:18] <intellectronica> the tour isn't really documentation, it's more marketing
[19:18] <sinzui> and we update and review the tour differently form code
[19:18] <mrevell> Yes Rinchen. I'm thinking of also suggesting "inline-help" and "user-guide" tags in the future.
[19:18] <Rinchen> ok, let's not get ahead of ourselves :-)
[19:19] <mpt> Ideally, where a change to Launchpad code affects what the tour should say, the same branch should update that part of the tour at the same time.
[19:19] <mrevell> intellectronica: It's docu,mentation for prospective users :)
[19:19] <intellectronica> inline-help and user-guide are documentation bugs, i agree
[19:19] <Rinchen> thumper, do you have any comments?
[19:20] <thumper> about a product for the tour?
[19:20] <matsubara> I think we won't have that many bugs on the tour anyway, so that doesn't justify having its own product
[19:20] <Rinchen> thumper, yes...or the tag.
[19:20] <thumper> I don't think the current lp projects should be projects
[19:20] <thumper> so I'm -1 on a product, +1 on a tag
[19:21] <matsubara> I'm +1 on the tag, -1 on the product as well (but I'm biased :-)
[19:21] <thumper> sorry for mixing products and projects there
[19:21] <Rinchen> mrevell, do we really have a lot of bugs that would require a tag (let alone a product)?
[19:21] <intellectronica> thumper: i don't look forward to a day when i'll have to dig out the relevant bugs from a long list of all lp bugs
[19:21] <Rinchen> you didn't include any examples which is why I ask
[19:22] <mpt> intellectronica, so fix the bugs that make tagging unnecessarily difficult :-)
[19:22] <intellectronica> :)
[19:22] <matsubara> +1 mpt
[19:22] <mrevell> Rinchen: The tour bugs come when there's a major tour update. So, there were a few bugs after the most recent roll-out - but it is a *few*, ten maybe fifteen at most.
[19:22] <mpt> The longer those bugs go unfixed, the more people are tempted to do silly things like splitting the same bunch of source code into separate "projects"
[19:22] <mrevell> Rinchen: But they come at one time.
[19:22] <mrevell> I suggest a tag so that it's easy for me to look at what needs fixing on the tour and then I can go to our external designer and get a quote.
[19:23] <Rinchen> ok
[19:24] <intellectronica> while i'd prefer a tag, i think that mrevell should ultimately decide on this one, since he's managing this project, and he will benefit (or suffer) from the change the most
[19:24] <Rinchen> given that the amount of bugs are not very high and it currently fits well within it's existing product, I don't think a new product is the right thing in this particular instance
[19:24] <Rinchen> I also do not think a tag would be warranted but I have "been there, done that" when dealing with the tour and the provider so I'm +1 on a tag for it's existing product
[19:25] <Rinchen> intellectronica, well, he did. He wants a tag :-)
[19:25] <thumper> JFDI
[19:25] <mrevell> thumper: my thoughts exactly :)
[19:25] <allenap> +1
[19:25] <Rinchen> ok. so carried
[19:25] <mrevell> thanks all for your input
[19:25] <Rinchen> [AGREED] tour tag for the launchpad-documentation product approved. mrevell to update the tags page
[19:25] <MootBot> AGREED received:  tour tag for the launchpad-documentation product approved. mrevell to update the tags page
[19:26] <Rinchen> ok, for tag #2...
[19:26] <Rinchen> matsubara, rca
[19:26] <matsubara> one of the things we decided to do during the sprint is to have a root cause analysis for critical bugs, and we would use a bug report to hold information about the RCA. so the tag is basically to help us group those together. I'm ok on re-proposing this tag once we have the process in place and a initial RCA bug as an example.
[19:27] <barry> it's an interesting idea, but can we pick something other than an abbreviation?
[19:27] <thumper> barry: rooted?
[19:27] <Rinchen> so the team leads spoke about RCAs on last week's call
[19:27] <Rinchen> and the TL's agreed we should pilot this
[19:27] <Rinchen> and the QA group is going to do this for Critical bugs (only)
[19:27] <barry> thumper: sounds like pwnd :)
[19:27] <barry> thumper: maybe root-cause?
[19:28] <Rinchen> the process needs to be updated a bit so...stay tuned and we'll have that out to everyone
[19:28] <thumper> Rinchen: I like root-cause better than rca too
[19:28] <matsubara> barry, fine by me.
[19:28] <abentley> thumper: Yeah, I guess Root Cause Analysis has a different flavour in some dialects.
[19:28] <thumper> abentley: :p
[19:28] <Rinchen> Any objections?
[19:28] <Rinchen> ok. thanks
[19:28] <thumper> Rinchen: only to rca, not the concept
[19:29] <Rinchen> [AGREED] root-cause tag approved. matsubara to update the tags page.
[19:29] <MootBot> AGREED received:  root-cause tag approved. matsubara to update the tags page.
[19:29] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[19:30]  * Rinchen pokes herb
[19:30] <Rinchen> ok
[19:30] <Rinchen> well
[19:30] <Rinchen> we'll move along then
[19:31] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
[19:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
[19:31] <stub> The trunk will be open for database landings tomorrow, and the remaining db patch reviews done assuming this conjunctivitis doesn't get bad.
[19:31] <stub> One landing will be the branch that gives us master and slave stores to play with.
[19:31] <stub> You can explicitly use the slave store to speed things up when your code doesn't need to write to the db and doesn't mind if the data is slightly lagging. I'm sure we can all think of many examples that will benefit from using this.
[19:31] <stub> You can explicitly use the master store when you need to make modifications or the data absolutely has to be up to date.
[19:31] <stub> Existing code all uses the default store, which is set by the publisher based on the type of request - read only requests will get the slave store as their default, which should offload at least 30% of our load to the replica databases (when they are live).
[19:31] <stub> oot.
[19:32] <Rinchen> This is great news stub
[19:32] <Rinchen> any questions for stub?
[19:32] <barry> stub: what's the name of the slave store?
[19:32] <thumper> stub: any idea what the delay will be like getting updates from the master to the slave(s)?
[19:32] <stub> getUtility(IStoreSelector).get(LPMAIN_STORE, SLAVE_FLAVOR)
[19:32] <barry> stub: thx
[19:33] <stub> thumper: 2 seconds to minutes - we won't know until we see it under real load.
[19:33]  * thumper nods
[19:33] <stub> (which we will do before switching the load balancing on)
[19:34] <Rinchen> stub, running this on demo or staging ahead of time and asking the lp community to test this would be a brilliant idea
[19:34]  * thumper wonders about post redirects
[19:34] <stub> Yes, but that still isn't real load. It is a hint, but not a true picture.
[19:34] <thumper> if we have a post that goes to writable store, which does a redirect post saving to a get, will that go to a copy that doesn't have the update?
[19:34] <sinzui> stub, does the master/slave negotiation for requests know about @safeget?
[19:34] <stub> thumper: The current load balancing implementation will keep connections using the master store for 5 minutes after a POST request
[19:35] <thumper> cool
[19:35] <stub> sinzui: No, because I don't know about it either.
[19:35] <Rinchen> any more questions for stub?
[19:36] <stub> sinzui: There is at least one hole in the algo at the moment, so it wouldn't work if we switched it on today (webservice requests all need the master at the moment). This branch is landing the infrastructure though, and enough for testing on demo and staging.
[19:37] <stub> sinzui: @safeget Sounds like something else the load balancing needs to be aware of as well.
[19:37] <sinzui> I meant @safe_action that we use with get requests.
[19:38] <sinzui> I was wondering if those submits will be using master when I think they should always use the slave
[19:38] <stub> sinzui: It depends if we can make an inteligent decision that early in the publication.
[19:39] <Rinchen> thanks stub.  I'm going to move on....
[19:39] <Rinchen> in the interest of time
[19:39] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:39] <Rinchen> Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
[19:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[19:39] <thumper> Rinchen: there is one
[19:39] <thumper> Rinchen: but I don't know the number
[19:39] <bigjools> Rinchen: I can't remember the numbers right now but I have a couple for private PPAs
[19:39] <Rinchen> last week it was  31340, 31296, and 31389
[19:40] <thumper> Rinchen: it was about moving a staging code import box to production environment
[19:40] <Rinchen> ok, if you guys could email those to me please I'll see what I can do
[19:40]  * thumper nods
[19:40] <Rinchen> sprinting this week so it's been rather hard for me to chase those
[19:40] <Rinchen> thanks
[19:40] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
[19:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
[19:41] <salgado> anything for me this week?
[19:41] <Rinchen> ok, thanks salgado
[19:41] <Rinchen> so, let's slow things down a little  ;-)
[19:41] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] user affecting issue (intellectronica)
[19:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  user affecting issue (intellectronica)
[19:42]  * Rinchen pokes intellectronica
[19:42] <intellectronica> in discussions with the ubuntu community, it has come to my attention that one issue that makes life very difficult for them, is launchpad being slower than they think is usable
[19:42] <intellectronica> ouch
[19:43] <intellectronica> it occured to me, that we often don't know that pages become unusably slow until they start timing out
[19:43] <Rinchen> we here this from folks in China as well.  We have experimented with non-ssl connections but it has not improved anything greatly
[19:43] <intellectronica> (or until users report bugs)
[19:43] <intellectronica> i think it's db queries in most cases, not the transport
[19:44] <stub> We are still chasing hard timeouts. Ideally these would be 0 and we are chasing soft timeouts instead. I think many of us tend to think of soft timeouts as normal or maybe early warnings rather than problems that need fixing.
[19:44] <intellectronica> so i have no idea how to tackle this, but would like to invite you all to think about this and maybe start a discussion on what we can do to track the speed of requests and improve things before they become serious problems
[19:45] <matsubara> yeah, we bring those soft time outs up from time to time, but they are postponed as not yet critical
[19:45] <thumper> I know on the code side, a usability point is the number of clicks / edits needed
[19:45] <thumper> so it is more of a workflow thing
[19:45] <thumper> rather than a webapp speed thing
[19:45] <intellectronica> matsubara: yeah, we can think of those as usability issues, rather than critical bugs
[19:45] <intellectronica> thumper: no, i think they are talking about page load times, not interaction
[19:46] <thumper> intellectronica: oh, ok
[19:46] <abentley> thumper: Rationally, yes.  Emotionally, high latency feels depressing.
[19:46] <mpt> I have read that people who complain about slow page load times think that a site has become much faster when the design has improved but the speed has not
[19:46]  * thumper is used to slowish pages from NZ
[19:47] <sinzui> translations were hoping for AJAX to make it's page feel faster.
[19:47] <stub> I suspect slow pages are those bugs that will never be looked at given our current priorities. Maybe now 2.0 is out we can look at polishing what we have over driving new features?
[19:47] <mars> intellectronica, there was a little discussion about pulling the page times from the Apache logs.  That could give you some hard data.
[19:47] <intellectronica> mpt: well, they were talking about this yesterday quite a lot, so obviously this hasn't affected their perception :)
[19:47] <mpt> obviously what hasn't?
[19:47] <intellectronica> mars: that, i think, is a really good thing to do. especially if it's done periodically and graphed
[19:48] <intellectronica> mpt: obviously the new design hasn't changed the user's perception of speed
[19:48] <Rinchen> the problem with load times it that it doesn't account for delay incurred over the wire.
[19:48] <Rinchen> pages load for me in the USA about 10 times slower than in London
[19:48] <mpt> intellectronica, I wouldn't expect it to, the 2.0 changes are tiny usability-wise
[19:48] <intellectronica> Rinchen: sure, but given that there's little we can do about the transport, why worry about it?
[19:48] <mars> yep.  I don't remember if there is a way to pull the full page load time though - not just the HTML, but scripts, images, etc. in aggregate.
[19:49] <Rinchen> intellectronica, because I think a good portion of the issue is geographically induced
[19:49] <intellectronica> mpt: indeed. and i agree that in-page interaction would improve things /a lot/
[19:49] <Rinchen> we still serve the same amount, but depending on where you are, it may be fast (London) or slow (China)
[19:49] <intellectronica> Rinchen: so maybe we should aim at researching that too?
[19:49] <mars> intellectronica, btw, response times could also become a big issue when we add more AJAX.
[19:50] <intellectronica> mars: how so?
[19:50] <Rinchen> I've had some initial conversations with upper management about that in fact.  But yes, we should definitely look into ways of improving that
[19:50] <mars> sure, it's AJAX, it's snappy, but that doesn't help if the XHR takes 1000ms to run :(
[19:50] <beuno> mars, ajax will reduce the amount of unnecessary queries you do. I do agree slow ajax is even worst
[19:50] <beuno> (and hi everyone)
[19:50] <intellectronica> mars: well, you won't be waiting on the entire page, as you do now
[19:51] <mars> intellectronica, yes, true
[19:51] <Rinchen> My advice at the moment is that everyone here consider this topic for a bit and bring up ideas to your team leads (and also intellectronica).
[19:52] <bigjools> Some of our pages carry a lot of data which can cause a lot of queries.  When optimising for fewer queries it's still easy to not improve the speed because the code becomes the slow part, so we need to be mindful of both code speed and number of queries.
[19:52] <Rinchen> We have a TL meeting coming up in a few weeks. It would be an interesting time to discuss it
[19:52] <mrevell> It's worse when an AJAX request goes slowly because you can't easily reload the page to start again.
[19:52] <abentley> intellectronica: Sometimes JavaScript itself can take a long time to load.
[19:53] <intellectronica> abentley: you mean js runtime? that depends on the client, but we should never reach the point where this can be an issue
[19:53] <Rinchen> thank intellectronica for bringing this up.  I happen to think it's very important
[19:53] <abentley> intellectronica: No, I mean the JavaScript code for a particular web site.
[19:54] <Rinchen> I'd like to table the JS discussions until later.  Anything else for intellectronica before we close?
[19:54] <Rinchen> ok then.
[19:54] <Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
[19:54] <Rinchen> #endmeeting
[19:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:58.
[19:55] <intellectronica> thanks Rinchen
[19:55] <allenap> Cheerio everyone.
[19:55] <mrevell> thanks Rinchen
[19:55] <thumper> ta
[19:55] <al-maisan> bye!


[00:00] <charlie-tca> It is the best thing there is to use windows programs in linux.
[00:00] <charlie-tca> Wine is based on it
[00:05] <rwt> !samba
[00:32] <ChristopherNG> Ive not really been using linux for 2 weeks because ive been gaming so much before university starts back but I was having withdrawl symptoms from linux.
[00:32] <ChristopherNG> So I came back to get my linux fix...
[00:33] <GridCube> :P
[00:34] <ChristopherNG> Anyone tried using Irssi in windows command line?
[00:34] <ChristopherNG> hehe
[00:35] <Unit193> cygwin+irssi+screen
[00:38] <GridCube> ChristopherNG, yep, all the time, weeeell i do use xchat more usually, but yeah irssi on a cygwin is pretty cool, you look all hacker and all
[00:39] <Unit193> ChristopherNG: But I don't understand why since there is something called PuTTY ;)
[00:39] <ChristopherNG> Heh so its all about the image eh?
[00:39] <ChristopherNG> Unit193: There is this even better thing called SSL from the terminal
[00:40] <ChristopherNG> The sad thing was I was using SSL for a long time and didnt know what I was doing was actually SSL because of all these programs like putty..
[00:40] <Unit193> Not exactly sure what you mean by that, but you can always use a telnet client
[00:40] <ChristopherNG> Unit193: I mean opening a terminal and typing "ssl<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:40] <ChristopherNG> and then your password
[00:41] <Unit193> Uhh... You mean SSH?
[00:41] <ChristopherNG> youve confused me now..
[00:42] <ChristopherNG> Anyway, sad so my people use windows like a life support machine, I had enough after two weeks and thats just using it for gaming.
[00:42] <Unit193> !ot
[00:43] <ChristopherNG> Yeah lets talk about the developments that took place over the past fortnight...
[00:43] <ChristopherNG> Has Xubuntu finally added a "add monitor" button yet?
[00:45] <Unit193> What?
[02:34] <TaylorOtwell> is it possible to setup a keyboard shortcut to open the main menu?
[02:35] <Unit193> xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu is what you want to execute
[02:36] <TaylorOtwell> ah, ok. thanks!
[02:36] <Unit193> Menu > Settings > Settings Manager> Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts
[02:36] <Unit193> *Application Shortcuts
[02:36] <TaylorOtwell> cool. i have set up the shortcuts before but just wasn't sure what to execute to pop up the menu.
[02:36] <Unit193> Alright! Anything else?
[02:36] <TaylorOtwell> not right now. thanks again!
[02:37] <Unit193> Have a great day!
[03:38] <yesitisjustme> anyone use wine?
[03:39] <Unit193> !crosspost
[04:26] <lighta> what's the issue about wine ? yesitisjustme ?
[04:34] <Unit193> Answered in another channel, then he asked here and yet another channel (That I'm in)
[04:42] <lighta> no I meant what he's question about it. ofc people use wine..
[04:43] <Unit193> "does msi extension work in wine?"
[04:43] <Unit193> Crosspost after answer. Maybe he didn't like it?
[05:48] <Unit193> Testing Bug #611869 being wrong (few years old)
[07:07] <k_sze> So I have selected the option "Mount removable drives when hot-plugged" in Settings Manager --> Removable Drives and Media, but my USB dongle still doesn't get mounted automatically when I plug it in. What could be wrong?
[08:25] <random_> hi, trying out xubuntu 11.4
[08:25] <random_> tired of monumentality of gnome and direction towards unity
[08:26] <random_> happy, very happy that there is choice
[08:26] <random_> and kudos to xubuntu maintaners and developers
[08:27] <Unit193> Well, I'm not really any of those, but glad you like it!
[10:15] <jnsl_> can anyone help me install the medibuntu repo ? i can't get it to show in my software center
[10:16] <Sysi> what would you need from medibuntu?
[10:16] <jnsl_> winFF
[10:16] <jnsl_> when i install winFF from normal repo i cant convert to mp4,ogg etc.
[10:17] <Sysi> ogg is free format.. well you can try: http://medibuntu.org/repository.php
[10:18] <jnsl_> ok thanks
[10:22] <jnsl_> Sysi that worked nicely thanks
[13:31] <BlAcKIce> hi
[15:08] <marc_smith> hello all. Is there any way to set time and date via GUI? I know how to do it via CLI, but I'm just wondering if there's any option for newcomers. I think it might be quite a huge of a problem for them
[15:11] <marc_smith> damn! I feel so embarrassed! there is a GUI tool
[15:11] <marc_smith> sorry for that
[15:11] <marc_smith> false alarm
[21:26] <ZoLToR>  Hi! Can someone help me? Is it possible to remove chromium and firefox from xubuntu? (Usin Google Chrome). When I deletin Chromium, xubuntu download and installing firefox. When I deleting firefox - chromium was downloaded and installed
[21:27] <Sysi> apt-get remove chromium-browser firefox
[21:28] <charlie-tca> Will it work if they are using Chrome ?
[21:28] <Sysi> it may want to install something else..
[21:28] <Sysi> IDK what depends on some browser, xubuntu-desktop?
[21:28] <charlie-tca> Looks like it insists on either firefox or chromium?
[21:29] <ZoLToR> At that moment I have only chromium withot firefox. And when I run command "apt-get remove chromium-browser" - downloading of firefox package was begining
[21:29] <charlie-tca> What is Chrome? Isn't that google's OS?
[21:30] <Sysi> ZoLToR: that's why you also tell it to remove firefox
[21:31] <Sysi> ChromeOs is Chrome OS, Chrome browser is Chrome browser
[21:35] <ZoLToR> omg.. just run "apt-get remove chromium-browser firefox". Unknown browser "Epiphany" aws downloaded and installed x_x
[21:35] <charlie-tca> That is not xubuntu, then. Does Chrome OS insist on having a browser installed?
[21:37] <ZoLToR> apt-get can not leave xubuntu without browser??? o_O But I have Google Chrome! Why apt-get didn't see it? :(
[21:38] <charlie-tca> Apparently, Google Chrome will not allow you to not have a browser!
[21:38] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu doesn't care if you don't want a browser
[21:38] <Sysi> chrome is not from default repositories
[21:39] <ZoLToR> I'm using Xubuntu.. Not ChromeOS
[21:39] <Sysi> charlie-tca: that happens on regular ubuntu too
[21:39] <ZoLToR> 1104
[21:39] <ZoLToR> 11.04
[21:39] <Sysi> still wondering what depends on some webbrowser
[21:40] <charlie-tca> You are right. xubuntu-desktop requires it
[21:40] <charlie-tca> as do the rest of the -desktop packages
[21:40] <ZoLToR> =(
[21:41] <charlie-tca> as does xsane, bluefish, and a bunch of other stuff
[21:41] <charlie-tca> but xubuntu-desktop can be removed, it is just a meta-package needed when you upgrade to the next release
[21:44] <ZoLToR> And how I will be update without that package if it need for upgrade?
[21:44] <ZoLToR> 11.10 not far)
[21:51] <charlie-tca> You must add the -desktop package back to upgrade, which will also require the browser be added back
[21:54] <ZoLToR> Hmmm... Thanks for your advice, I will try it later... Now I want sleep) Good night everyone!
[22:39] <DanielDerGrosse> just installing xbuntu via desktop cd i am very excited never used a linux distribution before


[19:02] <dreewill> hi
[19:02] <dreewill> i  have a question
[19:03] <dreewill> i filed the bug 700282
[19:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 700282 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup 585b0b66 (PGTBL_ER: 0x00000102) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700282
[19:03] <dreewill> and the bug occurs almost every time after startup. is it useful to add a report to the existing bug each time it occurs?


[11:29] <lapo> hi
[12:59] <chymera1> any idea what haooend to the ubuntu-artwork group in launchpad?
[12:59] <chymera1> *happened
[01:00] <chymera1> or did the exact same thing happen here?
[01:01] <chymera1> echo.......
[08:56] <chymera_> anyone here?


[14:56] <maswan> hey, tomorrow evening we're going to have a power outage at acc.umu.se, could you please point se.* etc elsewhere? power outage 20-24 CEST on th 18th, we'll be taking servers down shortly before then.
[15:06] <axino> Spads: ^ if you have a few cycles ?