[04:36] <guiverc> I justed jammy daily has 5.19 kernel  (not sure I checked yesterday; so may not be the first...).   Thanks @Leokolb as I note you've already run a test with it..
[05:23] <guiverc> ^ nah I think I was looking at lunar & was wrong..
[07:49]  * arraybolt3 sets up a Lunar Chromebook so I can start using Lubuntu regularly again
[21:44] <guiverc> thanks for writing up & sharing that "Lubuntu Upgrader" post on discourse arraybolt3
[21:46] <guiverc> (power off using power-off?   Didn't want to suggest SysRq-REISUB?
[21:47] <arraybolt3> guiverc: REISUB doesn't work by default in Ubuntu.
[21:47] <arraybolt3> You have to purposefully enable it.
[21:48] <guiverc> ?  I use it regularly; there was one release only where it was disabled (by default)
[21:50] <guiverc> nah; disabled too in lunar I see.... (on this new install box)  ; sorry I was wrong
[21:50] <arraybolt3> I've never seen it work without specifically enabling it, dunno.
[22:05] <guiverc> i booted a 22.04 install; sysrq+reisub rebooted; booted a 22.10 install & sysrq-disabled message at term..  (BIOS box)
[22:07] <guiverc> technically only some functions are disabled; not everything...
[22:07] <guiverc> at least we can sync/flush buffers to disk :)
[23:36] <arraybolt3> Just did an XScreenSaver upload that should fix the Kinetic bug in XScreenSaver for everything other than Lubuntu (we took care of Lubuntu separately).
[23:36] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: xscreensaver (kinetic-proposed/universe) [6.02+dfsg1-2ubuntu1 => 6.02+dfsg1-2ubuntu1.1] (lubuntu)


[03:53] <chatter> hey guys
[03:53] <chatter> allah is doing
[03:53] <chatter> sun is not doing allah is doing
[03:53] <chatter> to accept islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except allah and muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
[17:33] <mariogrip> tvoss: can i somehow force switch to slimport, it does not detect it when i plug it in
[17:54] <anpok> mariogrip: you could try inside the code.. but we dont have much control over what the user space driver does there..
[17:58] <anpok> hm i wonder if there is something in /sys
[17:59] <anpok> the code would be in src/platfroms/android/server/real_hwc_wrapper.cpp ... there the trigger for attaching a display is handled..
[18:00] <anpok> but I guess if mir gets now trigger hwc assumes that there is no display.. so if you fake that and submit a buffers to the external output it might still not show up on screen
[18:00] <anpok> i.e. hwc might deny the configuration attempt
[19:31] <TheKit> how can I invert axes for Mir on Android?
[19:34] <TheKit> touch screen driver treats screen in portrait orientation (max_x = 1080 and max_y = 1920), but for some reason to scroll from top to bottom on language selection screen I need to scroll from left to right as if Mir treated it landscape


[01:52] <Doc2k> Hello everyone I wonder if anyone could help me with Korganizer Categories coloring
[03:09] <bet0x> I'm having a lot of "visual glitches" with Kubuntu latest and ATI latest drivers, no matter what i do i tried OpenGL 2 and 3 and they have a lot of inconsistency
[03:23] <bet0x> The Ghost Channel
[05:30] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:36] <balance> hi
[08:36] <balance> I have 2 screens. How can I make my external one the main one? So the apps open there and not on my laptop
[08:37] <balance> also: how can I invert touch pad scrolling but not mouse wheel scrolling?
[09:35] <ejay> Hi all. Any ideas how to disable that new volume widget in 5.4?
[09:51] <svend-ev> Goodmorning
[09:56] <lordievader> o/
[09:56] <alvin> ejay: 5.4 has been backported? Or are you on 15.10
[10:00] <ejay> alvin: i am on 15.10
[10:00] <alvin> ejay: Nice! I haven't heard about the new volume widget. Are all system tray bugs gone now?
[10:04] <ejay> alvin: couple of new systray bugs :v
[10:04] <ejay> alvin: to be honest - if you are on 15.04 then consider to upgrade to 15.10. its beta but way more stable then stable branch.
[10:05]  * alvin will then upgrade tonight
[10:11] <ejay> alvin: but systray is messed up more then this one from 15.04
[10:16] <MoonUnit`> got 15.10 installed on a spare drive, can't use it atm screen rotation is messed up with my radeon card.
[10:16] <MoonUnit`> a continuing thorn in my side on various distros.
[10:16] <ejay> MoonUnit`: pivot monitor?
[10:17] <ejay> MoonUnit`: pivot display*
[10:17] <ejay> or monitor? jeez, english is so hard
[10:18] <MoonUnit`> is's a small 16/9 display, use it for conky and twitter, have the monitor rotated and then rotate the screen so its the right way up again.
[11:27] <balance> hi
[11:29] <balance> Im on a thinkpad yoga with the thinkpad pro dock - there are no official linux drivers but it actually works quiet well. Sometimes, when I wake the notebook up from sleep I have to reinitialise the second screen. e.g. by changing the resolution etc. maybe there's a command which does initialise the tool for multi monitor support and add it to wake up/autostart etc. can someone help me doing that? :)
[11:30] <cojack> hello guys, there is an const for fps on compositor?
[11:30] <cojack> I have 72 fps, even my monitor is 144MHz
[11:47] <Okitain> hello people! Does anyone here use a layout switch?
[12:27] <lordievader> cojack: Is vsync enabled?
[13:17] <cojack> where is drag and upload widget in kde 5? ;(
[13:22] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:23] <MoonUnit`> hi
[14:15] <kabukgoz> Is plasma 5 stable on kubuntu 14.04.3?
[14:16] <kabukgoz> join
[15:17] <danielle31> Hi all. KMail isn't sending any of the messages in its outbox. I've tried restarting akonadi and re-adding an SMTP server, but neither works. Any ideas? Getting a bit desparate now..
[15:24] <danielle31> And my computer keeps arbitrarily shutting down which is somewhat more pressing, I suppose..
[15:45] <danielle31> kmail does not send email in my outbox. I have tried completely recreating the accounts and restarting akonadi. any ideas?
[16:03] <BluesKaj> danielle31, sorry , but I gave up on kmail ...too many issues for the the ordinary home user
[16:05] <danielle31> thanks blueskaj. that's the most useful thing anyone has said to me so far!
[16:05] <BluesKaj> danielle31, are you at work or home?
[16:12] <danielle31> I work from home, blueskaj
[16:17] <linuxholic> Hello, can anyone tell me the shortcut key to search applications on kubuntu?
[16:17] <BluesKaj> danielle31, I see, wish I knew more about akondadi and kmail
[16:17] <linuxholic> i can't find it on internet
[16:18] <BluesKaj> linuxholic, do you mean , the run command/krunner? If so alt+F2
[16:18] <linuxholic> yes, krunner
[16:19] <linuxholic> BluesKaj, Alt+F2 doesn't work
[16:19] <linuxholic> I think i have to press Alt+Fn+f2
[16:19] <linuxholic> Can i change it anywhere in the settings?
[16:24] <BluesKaj> Lildirt, system settings>shortcuts>global keyboard shortcuts>KDE component , look in the drop down for krunner
[16:25] <BluesKaj> oh nice, he left ...oh well instant gratification is still in vogue
[17:55] <usaf> kubuntu rulez :)
[18:03] <linuxholic> Can i adapt my screen to High DPI in kbuntu?
[18:11] <rocco> is KDE Applications 15.08.0 in kubuntu backports?
[18:12] <soee> rocco: no
[18:12] <rocco> ok, will it be?
[18:31] <amari> Hi I was willing to use Kubuntu as my main OS but unfortunately with GNU/Linux systems there seems to be always something missing. For example I can't easily change the language of my system and grab the missing language packages for my software. How can this be done in Kubuntu?
[18:31] <amari> thanks, didn't mean to "rant" or fault someone in specific :)
[18:34] <anna`> amari that seems like more of a generic Ubuntu question
[18:34] <amari> anna`: No, because in Ubuntu you can do that with the language support software
[18:35] <anna`> Find out which repo that software resides on and add it to your list in kub and try installing it maybe?
[18:35] <anna`> i dunno just guessing
[18:35] <anna`> In all honesty this room is rather dead
[18:36] <genii> when a tech support channel is quiet, that's actually a Good Thing
[18:37] <anna`> if the few sporadic questions were being answered, yes
[18:38] <amari> anna`: +1
[18:38] <amari> :D
[18:38] <anna`> Pardon?
[18:41] <anna`> Did i manage to help amari?
[18:43] <genii> amari: Try System Settings... Common Appearance and Behavior ... Locale ... on the left after that, Country/Region & Language ... on the right, second tab labelled  Languages
[18:43] <amari> genii: It doesn't change the language of most softwares, as far as I know, only KDE apps
[18:43] <amari> why not create a script to grab the language packages from online repositories like Ubuntu does?
[18:45] <genii> amari: If the software you want the language changed for is something like Firefox or another non-Qt application, you still need to install it's own pack from a package manager
[18:45] <amari> genii: If you have a qt app in ubuntu it automatically gets the language packs for you though
[18:45] <amari> You don't need to install manually
[19:14] <AmazonianDude> Hey guys. Sound issues on Kubuntu 14.04
[19:14] <AmazonianDude> Aplay -l lists the soundcard (ICH5) and lspci also shows it, so I know the system can see it
[20:01] <gschanuel> hi folks
[20:02] <gschanuel> my touchpad is too sensible and systemsetting options for sensibility are greyed out
[20:03] <svend-ev> Goodmorning
[20:03] <gschanuel> /proc/bus/input/devices tells me this about it Name="SYN1B7B:01 06CB:2969 UNKNOWN"
[20:07] <gschanuel> other thing that is driving me crazy is that it is a "buttonless" touchpad, so if I keep a finger on the "button" area and try to move the pointer, it understands that there are two fingers on the touchpad and "zooms in and out"
[21:03] <tomsterley> Hi
[21:03] <tomsterley> Kde for the win am i right?
[22:16] <romeo_> чмаки всем, в чем смысл ирки - поведайте нубу
[22:16] <Unit193> !ru | romeo_


[00:00] <TJ-> Lots of very large organisations using 'cloud' for critical stuff, storing confidential data alongside (e.g. AWS S3), are going to need to re-evaluate and possibly switch to more expensive, dedicated, hardware
[00:01] <JanC> they probably should, but I doubt most will, unless there is a huge push against the cloud in mass media...  :)
[00:04] <TJ-> Some are legally obliged to; their service providers can no longer guarantee security for shared tennants
[00:04] <JanC> nobody can guarantee security
[00:07] <TJ-> indeed, but for example, some AWS contracts specify compliance with legal requirements on data confidentiality (e.g. healthcare records in USA) e.g. https://aws.amazon.com/health/providers-and-insurers/  where one of the selling points is "Improve your Security and Compliance Posture"
[00:09] <JanC> well, they are still selling it, right?  ;)
[00:35] <JanC> so Red Hat mentions POWER architecture is impacted too
[00:37] <JanC> and there is a possible solution or mitigation against Spectre which involves patches to both the kernel and to GCC
[00:38] <JanC> Linus: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/3/797  :P
[00:40] <TJ-> yes, seen that, but have you read the thread? Andi's patches (from Dave Hansen @ Intel) - there's a 'retpoline' sequence that disables speculation, and it looks like part of it requires a build-time compiler operation or insertion of a custom blob
[00:41] <nacc> there is ongoing discussion on that
[00:41] <nacc> but yeah, it's compiler-assisted
[00:42] <nacc> or needs perl in the kernel :-P
[00:42] <JanC> like I said: it needs patches in both the kernel & the compiler
[00:42] <TJ-> it looks like the best approach, if there are more workarounds in the pipeline
[00:43] <JanC> and maybe requires re-building all applications with the new compiler really, as Spectre is mostly & per-process thing?
[00:43] <TJ-> "-mindirect-branch=thunk-extern"
[00:44] <JanC> or would the kernel part protect applications too?
[00:54] <nacc> JanC: it probably could, at some cost (iiuc)
[00:55] <JanC> the more I read about Spectre, the more this sounds like something I read about months or a year ago...
[00:55] <JanC> probably someone speculating
[00:56] <nacc> yeah it's been discussed for a while, i think
[00:56] <nacc> theoretically discussed
[01:00] <TJ-> there was a paper at US blackhat 2016 about these micro-arch attacks
[01:01] <TJ-> we now also have this to give out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown
[01:03] <JanC> ah, might have been from that, or a related/derived article/talk/paper
[01:04] <TJ-> one of the BH paper authors is one of the authors of the KAISER paper/code
[01:07] <dax> !kpti
[01:12] <TJ-> good job we can all fall-back on our RasPi clusters :)
[01:17] <daftykins> Pis still don't have proper ubuntu images, do they? someone was looking it up the other day, seems to be a poor scenario
[01:20] <TJ-> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/xenial/daily-preinstalled/current/
[01:21] <daftykins> last i saw i thought they couldn't install other kernels though
[02:41] <dax> Ben64: gotta love when ops calls fix the problem all by themselves
[02:41] <Ben64> indeed
[02:42] <daftykins> huh, an op did something?
[02:42] <daftykins> :O
[02:42] <Ben64> i'll never understand why a) people don't use the right channels and b) why they have to rebel against 'the man' and their 'rules'
[02:43] <Ben64> anyway, time to preheat the oven for my tater tots
[02:44] <daftykins> ooh yes please
[02:44] <Ben64> come on over
[02:45] <Ben64> making sloppy joes and tater tots
[02:45] <Ben64> because i'm an adult and i can
[02:45] <daftykins> :D
[02:46] <Ben64> also i looked at how much i spent eating out in december and holy crap
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[07:01] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
[07:16] <lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje
[07:19] <ducasse> morning all
[07:19] <ducasse> hi lordievader, lotuspsychje
[07:19] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> best of wishes in 2018 guys!
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> on topic this new cve:
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> !kpti
[07:20] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[07:21] <lordievader> Hey ducasse
[07:21] <lotuspsychje> great here, enjoyed holidays
[07:22] <lotuspsychje> tnx 4 the adjust dax
[07:34] <EriC^^> morning all
[07:35] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[07:37] <alkisg> Good morning everyone
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> hey alkisg
[07:38] <ducasse> hi alkisg, EriC^^
[07:42] <EriC^^> hi ducasse
[07:42] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> 1300+ users yesterday
[07:42] <EriC^^> yuppers
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> today 1400?
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> :p
[07:43] <EriC^^> hi alkisg
[10:24] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: no work today
[10:24] <EriC^^> ?
[10:24] <lotus|bionic> EriC^^: 8january start
[10:24] <EriC^^> cool
[10:24] <lotus|bionic> yeah =p
[10:25] <lotuspsychje> lucky you
[10:26] <lotus|bionic> lol
[10:26] <lotus|bionic> stay off the pc you
[10:26]  * lotus|bionic spanks lotuspsychje
[10:26] <EriC^^> :D
[10:30] <lotuspsychje> lol okay doei
[10:31] <lotus|bionic> grr
[11:29] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:35] <alkisg> Hello BluesKaj
[11:39] <BluesKaj> Hi alkisg
[13:13] <EriC^^> good afternoon all
[13:15] <BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
[13:15] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj :)
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
[13:20] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[13:20] <lotuspsychje> hi TJ- pauljw
[13:21] <pauljw> morning everyone
[13:27] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-says-security-updates-for-meltdown-spectre-bugs-may-affect-performance-519214.shtml
[13:35] <pauljw> anyone heard when we're supposed to get these patches?
[13:36] <lotuspsychje> pauljw: still waiting
[13:36] <pauljw> ok
[13:37] <lotuspsychje> pauljw: they should show on !usn when ready
[13:38] <BluesKaj> taking away rthe NSA etc 's back door :-)
[13:38] <pauljw> thanks, no biggie as i do updates every morning
[13:38] <pauljw> that would be great, BluesKaj
[13:38] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: lol
[13:39] <BluesKaj> that was mentioned by one of the so called experts over at the ##linux chat
[13:39] <pauljw> heheh...
[13:41] <BluesKaj> there's quite a few of them over there...an endless source of entertainment :-)
[13:43] <lotuspsychje> https://fedoramagazine.org/protect-fedora-system-meltdown/
[13:49] <lotuspsychje> https://askubuntu.com/questions/992137/how-to-check-that-kpti-is-enabled-on-my-ubuntu/992186#992186
[13:54] <pauljw> the fallout of this should prove interesting.
[13:54] <pauljw> from this
[13:56] <daftykins> hey all \o
[13:56] <EriC^^> heya daftykins o/
[13:56] <pauljw> o/
[13:56] <daftykins> well, it's not gonna be fixed even after patches
[13:56] <EriC^^> happy (belated) new year
[13:56] <daftykins> and to you :D
[13:56] <EriC^^> :D
[13:56] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[13:57] <daftykins> there'll be plenty more Intel ME issues to come this year, too :)
[13:57] <pauljw> no, it's just a work around
[13:57] <lotuspsychje> i also think mass exploits gonna come
[13:57] <BluesKaj> hey daftykins
[13:58] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje
[14:00] <lotuspsychje> the underground always faster then the patches
[14:00] <pauljw> yep
[14:03] <daftykins> and everyone faster than Equifax ;D
[14:08] <BluesKaj> we got phony phone calls from scammers posing as Equifax fact checkers about our CCs and bank accts...I told them to send me their requests for info in the mail ...they hemmed and hawed fro a few swcs and said they would, but that was 2 months ago and we haven't received anything from them
[14:11] <daftykins> hehe
[14:11] <daftykins> a client had their secretary forward me a legit looking email offering the fraid protection services and so on
[14:11] <daftykins> i asked how that really related to the work i do...
[14:12] <BluesKaj> heh
[14:13] <daftykins> *fraud oops
[14:15] <BluesKaj> the reason i knew they were phishing is they couldn't  tell me the last 4 digits of my VISA card...wife just reminded me
[14:16] <daftykins> ah har
[14:21] <BluesKaj> always ask for correspondence by regular mail, simple but usually effective advice from my bank.
[14:23] <daftykins> yip, that's true
[14:23] <daftykins> right i'm heading off, laters all \o
[14:23] <pauljw> :)
[14:27] <TJ-> BluesKaj: but it's much more fun to give them incorrect information :p
[14:31] <BluesKaj> TJ-, true, but the sooner I can get rid of them, the better...besides wife hates it when i stay on the phone and make fun of them. She's more paranoid than I am :-)
[14:32] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:32] <BluesKaj> I like blaming my wife :-)
[14:33] <TJ-> I once had a very entertaining call where I turned tables on them, because, as I said "It's only fair if you want to know my bank account info that I also know yours!
[14:33] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> new usn, but for 12.04 https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3430-3/
[14:37] <TJ-> Can I interest you in my new CPU architecture? I call it speculated-abacus because I sprinkled glitter on the beads :)
[14:38] <pauljw> lol
[14:38] <TJ-> I wish those security notices would drop the phrase " If a user were tricked into viewing a malicious website, " - the user doesn't need to be tricked, any web-site is potentially malicious, regardless of who operates it
[14:39] <TJ-> I'm referring to the USN-3514-1 WebKitGTK+ batch
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> when is one really safe on the net?
[14:41] <lotuspsychje> the best hacker is the invisible one, without a name, without a connection
[14:42] <TJ-> You mean Intel? :D
[14:42] <lotuspsychje> loll
[14:42] <lotuspsychje> 1nt3L
[14:43] <lotuspsychje> pikapika: was reading this, this morning: https://fedoramagazine.org/protect-fedora-system-meltdown/
[14:43] <TJ-> Well, they've always been brazen about it with their "Intel Inside" trademark and campaign, just people didn't realise just how 'inside' Intel were
[14:45] <pikapika> So um just to make it clear...in eli5 terms, fix isnt yet available for Ubuntu?
[14:46] <lotuspsychje> pikapika: still in progress
[14:46] <TJ-> It's being worked on, intensely! but the mainline patch-set isn't complete yet so there is no final 'fix' available. There may be more patches to fix discovered regressions yet
[14:46] <pikapika> Ok, thanks. Any expected time for release?
[14:46] <TJ-> pikapika: as soon as possible
[14:46] <lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-kpti-kvm&num=1
[14:47] <TJ-> pikapika: this was supposed to be under wraps until the 9th, to give time for OS vendors to get the updates published, so there's a week or work to be done instantly
[14:47] <pikapika> Ok
[14:48] <pikapika> I hope its released soon, as I am sorta a refugee from Windows 10 and wouldnt like going back
[14:50] <TJ-> It depends on what you use the PC for, as to how urgent patching is. Enterprise services on shared hardware processing sensitive data are the most at-risk. Desktop users at least risk (especially once the browser updates are installed)
[14:51] <pikapika> Oh
[14:51] <pikapika> Yeah this too.
[14:51] <pikapika> I'll have to check Firefox updates too
[14:51] <TJ-> Mozilla are publishing updates which will be available quite soon
[14:52] <pikapika> Yeah its an everyday use desktop, but still since the method is now so well known, things are um scary lol
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> i dont get the hassle about 1 active security hole...there are soo many around for many Os and we keep saying: keep your system up to date..
[14:53] <TJ-> The hassle is because this class of exploits effectively takes away all the security guarantees we've assumed were there for the last 15 years
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> yeah understand that part
[14:54] <TJ-> There will be more exploits using these general techniques; the researches developed 4 exploits for 'Spectre' but there will be many more
[14:55] <TJ-> And for Intel CPUs 'Meltdown' is 'game over' - hence the performance-impacting workaround KAISER  a.k.a Kernel Page Table Isolation (KPTI) patches
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> there will be always guys testing/finding security holes
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> with a lot of time
[14:57] <TJ-> yes, this class of vulnerabilities has been well known since mid 2016, it was just a matter of time until effective exploits were developed
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> we can learn so much of underground techniques
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> and once its get official its way too late
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> all got exploited already
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> especially fast servers are big targets every time
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[18:05] <dax> https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1028222/linux/lts-kernel-patch-for-intel-cpu-vulnerability-breaks-nvidia-driver/post/5230546/#5230546
[18:05] <dax> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL + nvidia strikes again!
[18:07] <TJ-> yes, I was looking at that earlier and grinning to myself since I reported a similar one for 4.14 when the AMD SME code was added, where Linux eventually over-rode the sub-system maintainer and changed to EXPORT_SYMBOL. I expect upstream will do likewise for this
[18:08] <TJ-> s/Linux/Linus/ grrr, what is with my fingers today? Have they caught the speculative execution bug!?
[19:17] <nicomachus> TJ-: maybe they're cold, like mine
[20:27] <nicomachus> nacc: taking the problem over to #android now, but thanks for the help. adb is complaining about "insufficient permissions for device: verify udev rules."  With mine, I had to install an app called substratrum and another called Andromeda, then run the companion Andromeda script over ADB from my laptop, and then I can pick a theme (installed separately from the play store)
[22:44] <nicomachus> Ben64: if ONLY there was an easier way. this is without root, too.
[22:44] <nicomachus> And I have to re-run the script and re-enable the theme if I reboot the phone.
[22:45] <nicomachus> but, hey, it looks pretty sexy right now so I got that going for me.
[22:54] <Ben64> i haven't tried it yet
[22:55] <Ben64> but yeah,the white background and stuff is annoying


[18:54] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:54] <ajmitch> morning
[18:57] <chilts> morning
[20:51] <thumper> morning
[21:02] <mwhudson> morning
[21:06] <hads> morning
[21:13] <ibeardslee> anyone have problems adjusting to the 'click and follow' of the menus in oneiric, rather than the older 'click and click'?
[21:48] <ojwb> morning
[21:48] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: nope
[23:21] <hads> D'oh. rm * strikes again.
[23:21] <mwhudson> ibeardslee: you went and spoiled an old-fashioned #ubuntu-nz morning there
[23:24] <chilts> mwhudson: you're spoiling the current peace :) (to which I'm helping)
[23:24] <mwhudson> ture


[09:24] <vila> hi there, I encounter issues during 'juju bootstrap' on canonistack, I noticed that two security groups are created at that time, one of them being empty (according to 'nova secgroup-list-rules juju-cs-0', is that expected ?
[09:25] <vila> specifically, juju bootstrap says: 'Attempting to connect to <IP_ADDRESS>:22' and sits there until a 10m timeout expires
[09:29] <vila> mgz: ping ^ I have a gut feeling it's related to ssh keys and chinstrap but I can't find the best way to debug that :-/
[09:30] <vila> juju debug-log says the connection times out too so I'm blind
[09:37] <vila> and FTR, juju bootstrap fails with: '2014-02-11 09:35:13 ERROR juju.provider.common bootstrap.go:140 bootstrap failed: waited for 10m0s without being able to connect: Received disconnect from UNKNOWN: 2: Too many authentication failures for ubuntu'
[11:06] <vila> axw_: I think I may be bitten by https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1275657 in the above ^ can you help me verify that ?
[11:06] <_mup_> Bug #1275657: r2286 breaks bootstrap with authorized-keys in env.yaml <bootstrap> <regression> <ssh> <juju-core:Fix Committed by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1275657>
[11:07] <vila> I'm using 1.17.2 from a saucy client by the way
[11:08] <vila> ha damn, wrong TZ to reach axw_ :-/
[11:08] <vila> mgz: not around ?
[11:09] <mgz> hey vila, am now, was just in standup
[11:09] <vila> mgz: cool ;)
[11:09] <mgz> what juju version are you using?
[11:10] <mgz> and can you actually route to that 10. address?
[11:10] <vila> mgz: 1.17.2 acoording to --show-log
[11:11] <vila> mgz: depends on the routes, let me recheck, nova list always shows the instance for one
[11:11] <vila> mgz: ha, just got the timeout, so from memory:
[11:11] <mgz> bootstrap on trunk requires ssh, which requires working forwarding
[11:11] <vila> I could reach it via chinstrap at one point
[11:12] <vila> mgz: it was working this week-end with an already bootstrapped node (so the routing was working)
[11:12] <mgz> you probably need to set authorised-key-path to your canonical ssh key that chinstrap accepts
[11:12] <vila> at that point that is, then I wanted to restart from a clean env, destroy-env
[11:12] <vila> mgz: that would make sense according to the bug but why did it worked before ?
[11:13] <mgz> oh, and when in doubt, delete ~.juju/enviornments/*.jenv files
[11:13] <vila> yeah, delete that, nova delete, even swift delete at one point
[11:14] <vila> trying again with my canonistack key in authorized-keys-path
[11:14] <vila> mgz: and about that empty secgroup ?
[11:15] <mgz> the per-machine ones are empty until a charm set some ports and `juju expose` is run
[11:15] <vila> mgz: ha great, makes sense, thanks
[11:16] <vila> hard to guess though ;) But makes perfect sense
[11:18] <vila> ok, bootstrap running, instance up, can't connect via ssh even using -i with my canonical key (too early may be, re-trying)
[11:19] <vila> mgz: using ssh -v, getting the host key (so the ssh server is up right ?), all my keys are attempted, none work
[11:20] <mgz> hmpf
[11:21] <vila> mgz: and what's the config key to reduce that 10mins timeout ?
[11:21] <mgz> you can just interrupt,n?
[11:22] <vila> hmm, looks like it's ok now, I remembered going into a weird state where I had to cleanup everything (that's how I discovered the swift delete...)
[11:23] <vila> mgz: slight doubt, I had to generate a pub version of my canonistack key with 'ssh-keygen -y', that's the right command ?
[11:24] <mgz> why?
[11:24] <mgz> that's not right.
[11:24] <mgz> chinstrap knows nothing about any canonistack keys, you need one that chinstrap allows
[11:27] <vila> mgz: hold on,
[11:28] <vila> mgz: I need the pub one for authorized-keys-path: ~/.canonistack/vila.key.pub in env...s.yaml, and I need the private in in .ssh/config for Host 10.55.60.* 10.55.32.*
[11:28] <vila> mgz: chinstrap itself is ok, I can ssh to it
[11:29] <vila> mgz: probably from my launchpad key known by my ssh agent (yup confirmed)
[11:30] <mgz> right, just use the launchpad key
[11:30] <mgz> in juju config
[11:33]  * vila blinks
[11:34] <vila> mgz: not sure that trick will work for our other use cases, but let's see if it works for me first
[11:37] <vila> mgz: nope, same behavior
[11:38] <vila> mgz: any way to set 'ssh -vvv' for juju attempts ?
[11:38] <mgz> if you poke the source probably
[11:39] <vila> damn it, scratch that last attempts, the .jenv is not updated when I modify my envs.yaml !
[11:39] <mgz> no
[11:39] <mgz> delete it after failed bootstraps :)
[11:41] <vila> mgz: ok, so I'm in with.. and it's proceeding
[11:42] <vila> pfew, at least I'm behind that wall
[11:42] <vila> mgz: thanks, a few questions then
[11:42] <vila> mgz: using the same key everywhere won't match all my use cases, was it just for debug or is it a hard requirement or.. why ? ;)
[11:43] <mgz> because we go through chinstrap, you have to give juju a key that chinstrap will accept
[11:44] <mgz> that's all really
[11:44] <vila> mgz: hold on, juju relies on ~/.ssh /config right, so whatever I say there is not juju concern
[11:45] <vila> mgz: I mean, juju doesn't know it has to go thru chinstrap
[11:45] <mgz> no, but it is supplying a given key, that needs to be accepted by the bouncer
[11:45] <vila> mgz: and now it's juju destroy-env that is unhappy :-(
[11:46] <mgz> apparently that overrides the one in the config block for the forwarding agent
[11:47] <vila> oh wait, my ssh/config still specifies my canonistack key so it seems that bootstrap and destroy-env use different tricks 8-/
[11:49] <vila> mgz: and juju debug-log has the same issue (.ssh/config for chinstrap bouncer fixed to use the lp key)
[11:51] <vila> mgz: so connecting with ssh to the state server works, authorized keys there says juju-client-key, vila@launchpad, juju-system-key (all prefixed with Juju:)
[11:51] <vila> but destroy-env and debug-log hang
[11:51] <mgz> destroy-env doesn't use ssh at all
[11:52] <mgz> you just want the sshuttle tunnel up for that
[11:52] <vila> rhaaaaaaaaa
[11:52] <mgz> so it can talk over the juju api
[11:52] <vila> always sshuttle after succesful bootstrap, damn it
[11:52] <mgz> having fun yet? :)
[11:53] <vila> mgz: hehe, yeah, we're automating stuff but I seemed to be the only one that couldn't bootstrap anymore
[11:53] <mgz> you have too many keys :0
[11:53] <vila> which kind of limits the fun ;)
[11:53] <vila> mgz: I was taught this was a good thing ?
[11:54] <vila> mgz: and I even got a *new* one when introduced to canonistack...
[11:54] <mgz> yeah, I don't use that
[11:54] <mgz> just give juju my one that works on chinstrap
[11:54] <mgz> (well... and set agent forwarding so my *other* key can be used to talk to launchpad so bzr works... so it's not all simple)
[11:55] <vila> mgz: so if I want to allow several keys from the juju instance, I need to switch from authorized-keys-path to authorized_keys and generate a proper content right ?
[11:57] <mgz> just using one really is best
[11:58] <mgz> but yeah, you can supply multiple
[11:58] <vila> ha good, I need to check which one I need exactly but at some point I have to create a nova instance and tell it which key to use, all was fine until now :-}
[11:59] <vila> mgz: anyway, I'm unblocked for now, thanks for the help !
[11:59] <mgz> :)
[13:36] <vila> mgz: I'm reading lp:juj-core log, how should I interpret: "Increment juju to 1.17.3." as opening .3 or releasing it ? (I suspect opening, so later revision will be part of 1.17.3, is that right ?)
[13:41] <mgz> vila: opening
[13:41] <vila> yes !
[13:44] <vila> mgz: So i think my issue may be fixed by revno 2293 but introduced by revno 2286, I'll live with a single ssh key until <IP_ADDRESS> is released and re-test then
[13:44] <vila> mgz: what's the best time to chat with Andrew Wilkins ?
[14:53] <jcastro> hey fellas so what's the TLDR on HPCC
[14:54] <jcastro> looks like Xiaoming has done the fixes the last review asked for
[14:55] <marcoceppi> jcastro: looks like it was added back yesterday
[14:56] <marcoceppi> jcastro: they're still not addressing the validation portion. It will only validate if you provide it a sha1sum via cfg, so if you don't do that it falls back to just downloading packages
[14:56] <marcoceppi> I can tell now it's not going to pass for charm store inclusion
[15:02] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: you doing the next review?
[15:02] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: I could
[15:02] <lazyPower> I bet XaoMing is tired of reading my review text by now ;)
[15:03] <lazyPower> *Xiaoming
[15:03] <marcoceppi> I'll give it a go in a bit
[15:12] <bloodearnest> working on adding tests to gunicorn charm
[15:13] <bloodearnest> I have unit tests in ./tests
[15:13] <bloodearnest> I want to add some functional tests before proposing
[15:13] <bloodearnest> should I use amulet, or 'charm test', or some combination?
[15:14] <bloodearnest> and should I put the unit tests somewhere else?
[15:24] <marcoceppi> charm test is just a test runner
[15:25] <marcoceppi> bloodearnest: CHARM_DIR/tests is reserved for functional tests
[15:25] <bloodearnest> marcoceppi: ok will move it
[15:25] <marcoceppi> unit tests should either go in hooks or elsewhere
[15:29] <bloodearnest> marcoceppi: so can I write a test in CHARM_DIR/tests using amulet that will be run by 'charm test'
[15:31] <marcoceppi> bloodearnest: correct
[15:32] <bloodearnest> marcoceppi: sweet. Do you know of any charms that have such tests I can use an example?
[15:32] <marcoceppi> you can write tests in any language, but we recommend amulet
[15:32] <marcoceppi> bloodearnest: yeah a few, one sec
[15:53] <gnuoy> Does anyone have a moment to help me figure out why I can't get my env to find the juju-tools in a private openstack cloud ? I've uploaded to a swift bucket and created the keystone endpoints but I keep getting ERROR juju supercommand.go:282 no matching tools found for constraint. This is juju 1.16.5
[15:59] <mgz> gnuoy: on bootstrap I presume? can you pastebin a --debug log?
[15:59] <gnuoy> mgz, juju-metadata validate-tools
[15:59] <gnuoy> will do
[16:00] <roadmr> hey folks! the cs:precise/openstack-dashboard-13 charm installs openstack grizzly's horizon but also installs an incompatible version of django (1.5.4) from some ubuntu-cloud repository :( should I file a bug about this or is this fixed somewhere, somehow?
[16:01] <mgz> roadmr: bug 1240667
[16:01] <_mup_> Bug #1240667: Version of django in cloud-tools conflicts with horizon:grizzly <charms> <cloud-archive> <cts-cloud-review> <packaging> <regression> <ubuntu-cloud-archive:Confirmed> <juju-core:In Progress by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240667>
[16:01] <mgz> and dimitern is working on it today
[16:01] <bloodearnest> gnuoy: agy had this issue last week on prodstack
[16:02] <dimitern> roadmr, i'm just testing the fix now on ec2
[16:02] <dimitern> roadmr, what did you deploy after bootstrapping?
[16:02] <gnuoy> mgz, I'll catch up with agy rather than use up your time (the log will take a few minutes to cleanup anyway as its doing fun things like displaying passwords in clear text)
[16:02] <gnuoy> bloodearnest, thanks
[16:03] <mgz> gnuoy: sure, poke me again if you need to
[16:03] <gnuoy> thanks, much appreciated
[16:04] <bloodearnest> gnuoy: it was after an juju env upgrade from 1.14 -> 1.16 IIRC, juju was looking in the wrong place for the tools.
[16:04] <bloodearnest> or rather, the tools were not where juju was looking
[16:04] <gnuoy> bloodearnest, that sounds very like my situation
[16:05] <roadmr> dimitern: oh! I hadn'd looked for this in the cloud-archive project! I just did "juju deploy openstack-dashboard" on a maas provider (all nodes installed with Ubuntu 12.04, save for the maas controller which is trusty)
[16:06] <roadmr> dimitern: all other openstack components are already deployed but I was getting the server error when trying to access horizon
[16:09] <dimitern> roadmr, ok, thanks for the info, i'm trying now
[16:10] <roadmr> dimitern: awesome, thanks :)
[16:11] <gnuoy> mgz, this is the last part of the output from validate-tools http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6915759/
[16:12] <gnuoy> I see it looking up the endpoint for juju-tools correctly
[16:12] <gnuoy> and then is seems to query the index files and give up
[16:13] <gnuoy> The auth url is the url of the public bucket I created and pointed the endpoint at fwiw
[16:17] <lazyPower> ev: ping
[16:57] <blackboxsw> hi folks, should I expect that relation-data still be present during the *-relation-departed hook?  for instance. if I relation-set blah=2 in the relation and that relation-departed hook fires, should I be able to relation-get blah during teardown?
[16:58] <blackboxsw> ..currently I'm seeing permission denied on any relation-get calls from the departed hook
[17:01] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: I thought you could, but it's not reliable
[17:06] <blackboxsw> marcoceppi, cool thanks, I was thinking I might persist a json file containing information I need for service teardown on the unit that needs it during *-departed hook. Hopefully that approach sounds reasonable. I can't think of anyway w/ juju to ensure I always have the data I need to properly teardown the service
[17:06] <blackboxsw> so, I'd setup the persistent file during *-relation-changed or *-relation-joined and reference it during *-departed
[17:06] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: caching relation data to a dot file seems fine
[17:06] <marcoceppi> within $CHARM_DIR
[17:06] <blackboxsw> roger thanks marcoceppi
[17:07] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: IMO you should be able to run relation-get in relation-departed
[17:07] <marcoceppi> do you have logs from when you get the perm denied?
[17:07] <blackboxsw> marcoceppi, I'll deploy again and grab what I get from debug-hooks.
[17:08] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: cool, thanks!
[17:08] <blackboxsw> thank you. will be about 30 mins though.... and I'll pastebin it
[18:55] <blackboxsw> marcoceppi, sorry that took so long: https://pastebin.canonical.com/104649/   here's a pastebin showing that the departed hook doesn't have access to relation data that should be available
[18:56] <marcoceppi> mgz: should the departed relation hook have access to userdata? I was under the impression it should
[18:57] <KarielG0> hello
[18:57] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: from what I understand (and have been telling people for the last few years), this is a bug
[18:57] <marcoceppi> imo, departed should have relation-get access, and broken should have no relation access
[18:57] <marcoceppi> KarielG0: hello o/
[18:57] <blackboxsw> dpb1, pointed me at  https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-relations-in-depth.html   which seems to say relation-data should exist until the last unit depars
[18:57] <blackboxsw> departs
[18:58] <KarielG0> is going the Q&A going to be here or they haven't changed the channel?
[18:59] <CheeseBurg> is this the right channel for the Jono thing?
[18:59] <blackboxsw> hmm not sure which Q&A you are referring to KarielG0. I just fired a couple questions into the room as the experts are here :)
[19:00]  * blackboxsw checks around
[19:00] <Levan> I like pie
[19:00] <jono> Q&A is in #ubuntu-on-air - just reload the page and you can join the channel again
[19:00] <jono> sorry about that
[19:00] <Levan> we can see you
[19:01] <blackboxsw> thx jono
[19:02] <linuxblack> hey calendar app
[19:03] <dpb1> blackboxsw: agreed that the docs getting it right are important. :)
[19:04] <blackboxsw> marcoceppi, agreed. yeah I don't find any bug against relation-departed in juju. I'll file one
[19:05] <linuxblack> QUESTION; is there going to be a calendar app and weather app for 14.04
[19:07] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: well that was written with my understanding of the relation stuff, so I could be wrong
[19:07] <marcoceppi> linuxblack: go to #ubuntu-on-air
[19:08] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: either way a bug would be good
[19:12] <blackboxsw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1279018 filed for clarity
[19:12] <_mup_> Bug #1279018: relation-departed hook does not surface the departing relation-data to related units <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279018>
[19:12] <blackboxsw> thanks marcoceppi
[19:19] <aquarius> marcoceppi, ping about juju charm and consolidation
[19:19] <marcoceppi> aquarius: pong
[19:20] <aquarius> marcoceppi, OK, as you know, I have discourse running on azure through juju
[19:20] <aquarius> and it's a bit too xpensiv
[19:20] <aquarius> expensive
[19:20] <aquarius> I'm using £75 of compute hours a month
[19:20] <marcoceppi> right
[19:21] <aquarius> what I'd like to do is reduce that
[19:21] <aquarius> It's deployed three VMs, and three "cloud services", whatever they are
[19:21] <aquarius> now, it's possible that if that were all on one machine I'd still be paying the same amount
[19:21] <aquarius> but I wonder if that's not the case
[19:22] <aquarius> so: I come to you to ask whether you have any ideas
[19:22] <marcoceppi> aquarius: probably not, a cloud machine is a the VM, with auto-dns stuff
[19:22] <marcoceppi> aquarius: so, we have containerization within juju that works OK, not sure how well it works on azure
[19:22] <aquarius> since a hundred pounds a month to run a not-very-busy-at-all discourse forum is insanely expensive by comparison with renting the most rubbish machine from, say, digitalocean :)
[19:23] <marcoceppi> aquarius: but you can do something like, juju deploy --to lxc:0 postgresql; juju deploy --to lxc:0 cs:~marcoceppi/discourse
[19:23] <aquarius> discoursehosting.com costs a lot less than that, and that's a managed service. :)
[19:23] <marcoceppi> aquarius: you could just rent a bunch of "rubbish" machines and use juju manual provider
[19:24] <rick_h_> aquarius: can also check out hazmat's https://github.com/kapilt/juju-digitalocean if you're interested in trying it out in DO
[19:24] <marcoceppi> aquarius: well, we never said deploying to the cloud was cheap ;)
[19:25] <aquarius> marcoceppi, I suppose my thought is more this question: is there something I've done wrong in the setup, or something the charm does wrong in the setup... or is it actually the case that using juju to host a discourse forum on Azure is *expected* to cost approximately eight times as much as managed discourse hosting for it? :)
[19:25] <aquarius> because if the answer really is the latter then this is something of a blow to the juju/azure model, I have to tell you :)
[19:25] <marcoceppi> aquarius: you can do service co-location on a single machine, which will cut down costs from three machiens to one
[19:25] <roadmr> something like juju deploy --to ?
[19:26] <marcoceppi> right, but just using --to will do a bit of hulk smashing, using juju deploy --to lxc:0 or --to kvm:0 (soon) will set up containers on that machine
[19:26] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: do you have to setup the containers first? or will it auto create if it doesn't exist?
[19:26] <marcoceppi> aquarius: also, each cloud provider costs differently, aws v hp cloud v azure, etc
[19:27] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: it will autocreate if you just do lxc:0 that will create 0/lxc/#
[19:27] <rick_h_> aquarius: there's two levels of colocation and then there's just using a cheaper provider as well.
[19:27] <aquarius> marcoceppi, I was wondering about that. I have two questions about it, though. First question: do I have to wipe everything and redeploy from scratch to do that, or can I "migrate" from my current set up to it? Second question: in your opinion, will that actually be cheaper? (Or will I just use 3x the CPU on one machine and pay the same?)
[19:27] <rick_h_> so lots of options
[19:27] <aquarius> rick_h_, part of the reason we're using Azure is that MS kindly sponsored the forum
[19:28] <rick_h_> aquarius: it'll use the cpu of the combined services. If all three machines are running 90% cpu there's not going to be a good way to run on one box
[19:28] <marcoceppi> aquarius: well, compute hours are typically billed based on frequency of cpu scheduler, but are typically $/hour of usage in general
[19:28] <rick_h_> if they're all running a load of .1 then you can colo them fine as long as your comfy with all the services sitting on one VM
[19:28] <aquarius> rick_h_, I'm not sure how to work this out, but I'll bet you a fiver right now that those machines are idle at the moment ;)
[19:29] <marcoceppi> aquarius: yeah, they're pretty idle, discourse probably uses the most of all, and it's pretty well behaved
[19:29] <marcoceppi> aquarius: you'll have to do manual data migration from postgresql, etc
[19:29] <rick_h_> aquarius: then yea, I'd just look at colo'ing them. The deployer format supports colo'd units so I'd take your current environment, export a bundle, tweak it to be colo'd, and try to bring it up side by side with your current envionment
[19:29] <aquarius> what concerns me more is that I don't know whether what we're basically saying here is "don't use juju to deploy discourse to Azure because it's just really really expensive" or whether we're saying "you should have used the charm in the following way, $alternativeway, and you didn't"
[19:29] <rick_h_> and then if that's cool, bring the new colo up along side the live, replicate pgsql, and go
[19:29] <marcoceppi> basically, stand up a new azure environment, copy database + files over to new deployment, point public IP address to new site
[19:29] <marcoceppi> tear down old deployment
[19:30] <aquarius> I really, really, really do not want to tear everything down to zero and redeploy from scratch and restore postgres backups :( I am no sysadmin :(
[19:30] <rick_h_> aquarius: we're saying that juju's default use is services at scale and elasticity. That's more $$ ootb. You can go for less $$ by using juju's containerization to colo services.
[19:30] <aquarius> especially since the very act of deployment will, I imagine, use up all my remaining CPU time for the month...
[19:30] <rick_h_> aquarius: the Gui is starting work on a visual helper for doing service placement over the next couple of months
[19:32] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: still doesn't solve data migration from within charms
[19:32] <aquarius> OK. Well, that's clear at least, even if it's not the answer I was looking for. :)
[19:32]  * marcoceppi goes back to pondering about a backup/restore charm
[19:32] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: no, but pgsql supports replication correct?
[19:33] <rick_h_> so that's something the charms can/should do anyway
[19:33] <rick_h_> but yea, there's some migration pain in there, but it can be scripted as well
[19:33] <marcoceppi> rick_h_: yes, you could add-unit --to lxc:0 then remove the postgresql/0 unit after migration
[19:33] <marcoceppi> I guess that *could* could
[19:33] <marcoceppi> work*
[19:33] <rick_h_> marcoceppi: right, it's not as simple as it could/should be...but it's not impossible either
[19:34] <marcoceppi> well, postgresql also dumps nightly backups too, which makes it easy to restore
[19:34] <marcoceppi> but yeah
[19:35] <rick_h_> so aquarius, yes it's $$ to use any cloud doing one machine per service unit. Yes there's a way to avoid that using colocation. Ugh that migration tooling to help you turn one into the other isn't available as a super easy tool for you.
[19:36] <rick_h_> and there's stuff in the work that makes this easier in the future, but doesn't help you this weekend
[19:36] <aquarius> *nod*
[20:30] <phaser> hello guys! where can a new developer find the codebase for juju, if he wants to contribute to the cause?
[20:31] <sarnold> phaser: hello :) I believe this is where all the development happens: https://code.launchpad.net/juju-core
[20:32] <phaser> thank you for the quick response :)
[20:35] <hazmat> aquarius, rick_h_ re do provider not ready yet.
[23:47] <bdmurray> i'm trying to bootstrap an environment and I'm getting an error about it being already bootstrapped but juju destroy-environment says there are no instances
[23:47] <bdmurray> How can I resolve this?
[23:50] <marcoceppi> bdmurray: what's the name of the environment?
[23:52] <bdmurray> marcoceppi: the name? Its called openstack in environments.yaml
[23:52] <marcoceppi> bdmurray: then what you'll want to do is rm -f ~/.juju/environments/openstack.jenv
[23:52] <marcoceppi> then try to bootstrap
[23:54] <bdmurray> marcoceppi: that still didn't work
[23:55] <marcoceppi> bdmurray: run `juju destroy-environment openstack` again, then delete the .jenv (again) then change the control-bucket name in the environments.yaml file to something else (doesn't matter what) then try bootstrapping again


[04:28] <bkerensa> kees / slangasek: Do you both know of the Caveman/Paleo Food Cart on Alberta? Its pretty tasty
[04:41] <kees> bkerensa: Cultured Caveman is great. They have 3 locations. Love 'em.
[04:42] <bkerensa> kees: yeah thats the place I went
[04:42] <bkerensa> the chicken fingers and beet salad was delish
[04:42] <bkerensa> kees: I got to see the Google office in SF
[04:42] <bkerensa> :)
[04:42] <bkerensa> pretty cool
[08:28] <bkero> Cultured Caveman on Alberta is good, but honestly Garden Monster in the same pod is MUCH better.
[19:17] <c_smith> slangasek, you here?
[19:17] <slangasek> c_smith: ish :)
[19:18] <c_smith> slangasek, ok, would you mind putting a comment on my Wiki page when you get a chance? it's for Ubuntu Membership. wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cody.Smith
[19:19] <c_smith> still got a bit of time, the meeting I added myself to is in early September.
[21:28] <slangasek> c_smith: sure, I can do that


[00:26] <JanC> does anybody know what nicks the "OMG Ubuntu"-people are using on IRC ?  (assuming they are on IRC...?)
[00:27] <Pendulum> humphreybc is humphreybc
[00:27] <Pendulum> dunno past that
[00:30] <nhandler> JanC: They have #omg!ubuntu! and #omg!ubuntu!ops . You could look at the user lists to find the people you need
[03:16] <jcastro> test
[03:16] <jcastro> test
[03:16] <nhandler> We can hear you jcastro :)
[03:17] <jcastro> heh
[04:20] <nigelb> heh, everyone's poking poor paultag :)
[04:55] <duanedesign> akgraner: kazam is another app other then gtk-recordmydektop that i have used
[06:58] <paultag> hahaha
[06:58] <paultag> thanks you guy
[06:58] <paultag> s
[06:58] <paultag> game was rough, I'm super bumed
[06:58] <nigelb> paultag: We all love you :)
[06:58] <paultag> love you too. Well, it's 2 AM and I'm pretty drunk, Got ya'lls text, one love!
[07:05] <nigelb> OMG OMGOMG
[07:05] <nigelb> Last night was my first year as Ubuntu member :)
[07:05] <pleia2> happy anniversary :)
[07:06] <nigelb> :)
[07:20] <duanedesign> hmm, mine 'expires' this October. What happens then? Do you have to go before the membership board again?
[07:20] <pleia2> no, it's self-renewing
[07:20] <pleia2> you just renew it for another two years
[07:21] <duanedesign> aha
[07:22] <duanedesign> BT membership needs to be self renewing
[07:22] <pleia2> yeah, I wish it was :\
[07:22] <pleia2> but for BT they want proof of sustained involvement
[07:23] <duanedesign> ill mention it and see
[07:56] <nigelb> morning folks
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:15] <nigelb> I'm not a lady gaga fan, but.. http://www.junauza.com/2011/04/lady-gaga-goes-gaga-over-ubuntu.html
[08:15] <pleia2> oh no, dholbach waking up means it's way past my bedtime
[08:15] <pleia2> morning dholbach :)
[08:15] <dholbach> hey pleia2
[08:15]  * dholbach hugs pleia2
[08:16]  * pleia2 hugs dholbach
[08:16] <nigelb> bah, april fools joke and I fll for it
[08:16] <nigelb> pleia2: heh
[08:19] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:19] <nigelb> hey AlanBell
[08:19] <AlanBell> looking forward to UDS nigelb?
[08:19] <nigelb> AlanBell: I dunno, did you see my later posts?
[08:22] <AlanBell> well I hope you get there
[08:22] <nigelb> Me too :)
[08:23] <AlanBell> the dinner on Thursday looks good http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/meet-daniela/
[08:24] <AlanBell> anyone going to UDS is encouraged to join in with that one
[08:24]  * AlanBell isn't going though
[08:24] <nigelb> nice
[08:25] <JanC> nigelb: in the Netherlands there *is* a well-known singer & TV host in the IRC channels, so it could have been true...   ;)
[08:25] <nigelb> JanC: NICE
[08:29] <JanC> actually, she's in #ubuntu-women too
[08:48] <kim0> Morning
[09:08] <jussi> I had a fairly well known singer from iceland over last night :D
[09:08] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:08] <jussi> good morning czajkowski!
[09:08] <czajkowski> jussi: howdy
[09:31] <czajkowski> *yawns*
[09:31] <czajkowski> so did not sleep well at all last night
[09:50] <popey> morning all
[09:55] <czajkowski> popey: ello, any luck with the mini9 ?
[10:03] <popey> honestly, not touched it yet.
[10:03] <popey> will take a look tonight
[10:03] <popey> it glared at me as I left the house this morning
[10:06] <czajkowski> no bother
[10:10] <jussi> czajkowski: hows the back treating you? any better today?
[10:10] <czajkowski> god bit better thanks
[10:10] <czajkowski> a few days of just lying down and not moving has helped
[10:11] <jussi> czajkowski: excellent, hope it continues to improve.
[10:11] <czajkowski> me too thanks
[10:16] <popey> wonder if we can get jcastro to wear a streaming head-cam at UDS so we can all follow along with what sessions he's in :)
[10:16] <jussi> popey: that would be epic :D
[10:17] <jussi> sigh... and this ubuntu server image doesnt work for me. /me redownloads :(
[10:46] <AlanBell> akgraner: ping
[10:50] <jussi> AlanBell: if she isnt asleep now she should be :P
[10:50] <AlanBell> yeah I know
[10:52] <akgraner> AlanBell, pong
[10:52] <AlanBell> good morning akgraner
[10:52] <akgraner> morning :-)
[10:53] <akgraner> still working on the good part ;-p
[10:53] <AlanBell> :)
[10:53] <akgraner> what's up?
[10:53] <AlanBell> I have done some updates to onboard that I am trying to get through as a UI freeze exception (although I don't really know what I am doing with that)
[10:54] <AlanBell> just wondered if that was going to mess up screenshots for the book or anything
[10:54] <AlanBell> going from http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oldonboard.png
[10:54] <AlanBell> to http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png or something like that
[10:55]  * akgraner looks
[10:55] <AlanBell> and possibly with the letters in the centre of the keycaps if someone can help me do that (hint hint people)
[10:56] <akgraner> I don't think it will, but I just made a note of it to check when I do the final review...:-)
[10:56] <akgraner> thanks!
[10:58] <nigelb> AlanBell: awesome onboard is awesome
[10:58] <JanC> alternatively: it might be good to add something about a11y to the book ☺
[10:59] <akgraner> JanC I'll mention something to the editors for Edition 7
[11:00] <akgraner> I mean publisher not editor grrrr
[11:17] <popey> bug 749660
[11:17] <popey> bah!
[11:22] <nigelb> pad.lv/749660
[11:39] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[12:07] <daker> hey kim0 kimos.com seems to be down
[12:08] <kim0> daker: yes it seems so indeed .. I don't directly control it, so will need some time to figure out what has happened
[12:09] <daker> tyt
[14:16] <jussi> hehe, did anyone realise UDS ends on friday the 13th.... :P
[14:19] <Pici> dun dun dunnnnn
[14:20]  * nhandler didn't even realize we had a Friday the 13th coming up
[14:23] <nigelb> oh boi
[14:23] <jussi> UDS takes place on Monday 9th - Friday 13th May from 9.00am - 6.00pm each day.
[14:24] <tsimpson> there are 3 next year
[14:25] <tsimpson> in January, April and July

[14:26] <jussi> ooh, my mums birthday will be on the 13th next year then.
[14:26] <jussi> friday the 13th
[14:26] <jussi> (its on the 13th every year :P)
[15:00] <jcastro> I just don't get it
[15:00] <jcastro> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1721627
[15:00] <jcastro> does anyone think I'm being unreasonable here?
[15:05] <popey> well, my perspective is that "How-to" guides should not be in the forums, but nobody listens to me
[15:11] <nhandler> The forum also tends to rank very well in google search results (especially the archive), so I often find answers burried in there. Many of the answers that I find are really not appropriate for the wiki. I do agree that guides/howtos should be moved to the wiki or something similar. I also feel that anytime you are following advice on the forum or IRC or anything like that, you should always be cautious if you ...
[15:11] <nhandler> ... don't know the user giving the help
[15:12] <Pici> But similar to that, contributors to the wiki aren't vetted in advance etiher.
[15:17] <popey> doesnt matter
[15:17] <popey> wiki is editable
[15:17] <popey> so crack can be fixed
[15:17] <Pici> Right.
[15:20] <jcastro> right
[15:20] <jcastro> the wiki being broken is another problem
[15:21] <jcastro> true, it sucks and doesn't help the cause
[15:21] <jcastro> though I don't want to slight the ndiswrapper person's work, because it looks substantial
[15:21] <jcastro> even though all that does is break people's stuff
[15:22] <jcastro> and the real answer is "go spend $20 on a new dongle"
[15:22] <jcastro> but whatever, at least the person is keeping it up to date
[15:30] <jcastro> "I have changed my mind on this topic. I think that the most important thing is to grow & optimise the Ubuntu wiki."
[15:30] <jcastro> hah
[15:30] <jcastro> the second thing I want to delete. :)
[15:34] <akgraner> hehe  - I have such a love hate relationship with wiki pages
[15:37]  * JFo loves to hate them
[15:39] <duanedesign> jcastro: i tried to come to your defense in that thread on the forum
[15:40] <jcastro> I think everyone needs to collectively realize (and this is project wide) that deleting things can be just as useful as writing them
[15:41] <duanedesign> jcastro: definetly if the info is worth keeping it is worth moving to a resource that can be maintained
[15:42] <duanedesign> jcastro: not only the wiki but I have my BOUCFT projrct. It tales the best of the forums and puts it in DocBook format viewable by Yelp
[15:47] <akgraner> what is a "bamfdaemon" cause whatever it is it keeps crashing...:-/
[15:47]  * akgraner goes to look it up :-)
[15:49] <jcastro> akgraner: it's a window matcher
[15:49] <jcastro> just submit the crasher and mark it unprivate
[15:49] <jcastro> tons of fixes tomorrow folks!
[15:49] <duanedesign> akgraner: \o/
[15:49] <duanedesign> oops
[15:49] <jcastro> ever crash I had yesterday was a dupe or already fixed upstream
[15:49] <akgraner> and I learned (probably something you all already knew) that I can have Chromium open on startup with all the websites I have been manually opening everyday..like poof magic there it is :-)  I'm super happy :-)
[15:50] <duanedesign> akgraner: you are going to be making some screencasts?
[15:50] <akgraner> jcastro, awesome :-)
[15:51] <akgraner> duanedesign, I can :-)  I have a ton of them to make for the Ubuntu book...so by release I should be good or at least acceptable at making them
[15:52] <duanedesign> akgraner: i  just saw it mentioned earlier. I wnt to make an effort to increase the screecast team and the amount of screencasts being made
[15:52] <akgraner> the barnes and noble version of the book with come with an extra cd of howto's :-)
[15:52] <akgraner> s/with/will
[15:53] <duanedesign> akgraner: so if you do make some I would love to put them up on the screencast team resources like screencasts.ubuntu.com and the YouTube site
[15:53] <akgraner> duanedesign, I'll send them your way once I have the screencasts done
[15:53]  * akgraner makes a note to do that
[15:53] <duanedesign> thank you.If you have any question, or ai can help ley mw know :)
[15:55] <akgraner> duanedesign, sweet  - thanks!
[15:56] <duanedesign> akgraner: also if you have any trouble with gtkrecordmydesktop or kazam I have a sceencasting script that i use
[15:56] <duanedesign> i had issues with screen 'tearing' and audio not lining up
[15:58] <jcastro> <3 recordmydesktop
[15:58]  * popey stabs recordmydesktop
[15:58] <popey> needs fixing badly
[16:11] <akgraner> duanedesign, what does the script do?  I am so new to this..:-/
[16:16] <akgraner> oh wow - digging the new Hinder CD  - All American Nightmare...
[16:17] <akgraner> sorry jono Hinder just ousted Severed Fifth from my playlist today ;-)
[16:21] <daker> Woaa Commodore 64x with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
[16:31] <jcastro> akgraner: ugh crap, openweek
[16:31] <akgraner> yep :-)
[16:31] <akgraner> I'm working on that after 4pm today
[16:32] <akgraner> well according to my calendar anyway
[16:32] <akgraner> :-)
[16:35] <jcastro> ok, I AM ON IT!
[17:33] <Pendulum> paultag: so the good news from last night's baseball game is that I'm not going to force you to quit school and start traveling with them as their lucky fan :P
[17:36] <dholbach> ok my friends - I call it a day
[17:36] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow - hugs
[17:53] <akgraner> Check out Project Harmony :-) http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Project-Harmony-Launches-Today
[18:13]  * AlanBell wonders if the "gobby is sub-optimal/etherpad would be better" conversation is actually going to go anywhere
[18:14] <maco> AlanBell: has anyone gone over etherpad with orca yet?
[18:18] <AlanBell> yes
[18:18] <Pendulum> I think Luke commented on that thread
[18:20] <maco> i think he said a webapp will never beat a desktop app
[18:20] <Pendulum> yes
[18:20] <AlanBell> my desktop is behaving badly at the moment, but I did have orca reading etherpad reasonably well
[18:20] <maco> i somehow doubt all the ajax hints that should be in there are there in etherpad
[18:20] <Pendulum> probably not
[18:20] <Pendulum> he did try etherpad at one point
[18:20] <Pendulum> it wasn't horrible
[18:21] <Pendulum> google docs is pretty much unuseable
[18:21] <AlanBell> the point to note is that the new gobby does not work with orca anyway
[18:21] <Pendulum> right
[18:22] <maco> oh ew
[18:25] <AlanBell>  orca is behaving badly on my desktop at the moment
[18:25] <AlanBell> however I think it can read etherpad content just fine, however echo by word does not seem to work
[18:26] <AlanBell> character by character works fine if you have key echos on
[18:27] <AlanBell> there is never going to be a perfect multi-cursor editor because you can't keep a mental map of the state of the document
[18:32] <jcastro> ok so it's feature-equivalent
[18:32] <jcastro> they both suck?
[18:32] <czajkowski> jcastro: the ask Ubunut lense keeps crashing
[18:32] <jcastro> czajkowski: OHRLY
[18:32] <czajkowski> should I report the bug or is it known
[18:32] <jcastro> czajkowski: does the apport thing fire off?
[18:33] <czajkowski> yeah but I just closed it
[18:33] <jcastro> ok holla at me when it goes off again
[18:34] <AlanBell> jcastro: etherpad is OK with orca, especially for reading
[18:35] <jcastro> AlanBell: if you update the thread with your findings I'll poke again for a decision
[18:35] <czajkowski> jcastro: it's when I restart the machine
[18:36] <jcastro> czajkowski: oh
[18:36] <AlanBell> I don't think I can post to -devel
[18:36] <jcastro> is it the lens or the unity something service?
[18:36] <jcastro> AlanBell: you can it'll just be moderated
[18:36] <czajkowski> hold on and let me restart jcastro and then I'll have more info
[18:36] <jcastro> cooh
[18:37] <czajkowski> brb
[18:38] <czajkowski> hmm didnt crash this time
[18:38] <czajkowski> bugger
[18:39] <czajkowski> oh it did
[18:39] <czajkowski> there we go
[18:39] <czajkowski> the problem cannot be reported
[18:39] <czajkowski> this is not a genuine Ubuntu package
[18:40] <czajkowski> jcastro: ^^^
[18:41] <jcastro> hmm
[18:41] <jcastro> is there a way to read that
[18:41] <jcastro> one sec
[18:41] <jcastro> ok do this
[18:42] <jcastro> is there something in /var/crash
[18:42] <jcastro> like a .crash file for it?
[18:43] <czajkowski> hmm
[18:43] <czajkowski> let me go and see
[18:44] <czajkowski> jcastro: there is a _lib_unity-place-askubuntu_unity-askubuntu-daemon.1000.crash
[18:44] <jcastro> excellent
[18:44] <jcastro> file a bug on lp:askubuntu-lens and attach it please
[18:45] <jcastro> stefano is on german time so he might not get to it today
[18:45] <jcastro> czajkowski: I believe that's our first crasher!
[18:45] <czajkowski> jcastro: not sure how to attach that file though ...
[18:45] <jcastro> there is an attachment  button on the bottom of the bug form
[18:45] <jcastro> like for screenshots and stuff
[18:45] <czajkowski> so ubuntu-bug askubuntu-lens?
[18:46] <jcastro> I don't think it will let you do that
[18:46] <jcastro> since it's from like a ppa
[18:46] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/askubuntu-lens/+filebug
[18:46] <jcastro> we go old school!
[18:46] <AlanBell> can someone else try connecting to gobby.ubuntu.com please
[18:47] <jcastro> czajkowski: lunching, be back in 20 to check up!
[18:47] <czajkowski> ok
[18:47] <AlanBell> gah, never mind, wrong version of gobby
[18:49] <czajkowski> jcastro: done
[18:52] <AlanBell> actually gobby-0.5 does work OK with orca
[18:53] <AlanBell> in Natty
[18:54] <sense> Warning: watch out with todays udev update for Natty, it has a risk of making your system unbootable.
[18:55] <czajkowski> hmm
[18:55] <czajkowski> I need to explain to loco teams I am not shipit
[18:55] <czajkowski> :/
[18:56] <czajkowski> hmm alt tab kills my sessions
[18:57] <czajkowski> bugger
[18:57] <czajkowski> this really is not my week
[18:59] <JanC> IIRC there is a bug report about "alt tab kills compiz" somewhere
[19:00] <czajkowski> aye
[19:00] <czajkowski> damn annoying bug
[19:00] <JanC> I suppose it's difficult to debug too, as it only happens sometimes
[19:02] <czajkowski> aye
[19:04] <JanC> pfff, the combined-application-launcher-and-window-switcher-and-locations-thing is clearly not designed for people who use a lot of applications...  :-/
[19:14] <AlanBell> jcastro: email held in moderation
[19:15] <jcastro> AlanBell: they stay on top of  that queue pretty well, we should be good
[19:15] <AlanBell> it includes "Does anyone know whether the "delete a page brings down the whole server" issue has actually been fixed on gobby.ubuntu.com? Heh, scrub that, just tested it! Someone might like to file an RT to get the server turned back on."
[19:16] <czajkowski> reading the -meeting now
[19:16] <AlanBell> which I think makes the point quite well :)
[19:16] <czajkowski> discssing unity being the default
[19:16] <czajkowski> interesting
[19:21] <czajkowski> I really enjoy the TB meetings
[19:21] <jcastro> it's important to note that the systray was going away in natty anyway
[19:24] <czajkowski> jcastro: if you want any more info on the askUbuntu issue let me know
[19:25] <jcastro> czajkowski: I need to wait to see what stefano says
[19:25] <jcastro> this is all greek to me
[19:25] <czajkowski> welcome to my world :)
[19:26] <JFo> discussion going on in -meeting right now about who decides if we keep unity for release and when do they make that determination.
[19:26] <czajkowski> aye
[19:26] <czajkowski> it's interesting
[19:26] <czajkowski> TB says it's the reelease team possibly
[19:26] <czajkowski> and release team seems to think it's ready
[19:26] <czajkowski> it's not flipping ready
[19:26]  * czajkowski mutters
[19:26]  * czajkowski goes and finds some chocolate
[19:28] <jcastro> I think people are mixing up ready with what they think it's supposed to do
[19:28] <czajkowski> jcastro: true, possibly
[19:28] <czajkowski> there are some very annoying quirks though jcastro
[19:29] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/unity/3.0/3.8.4
[19:29] <jcastro> new fixes today!
[19:29] <jcastro> czajkowski: true, but gnome 2.x had quirks too
[19:29] <czajkowski> jcastro: I could alt tab in gnome
[19:29] <czajkowski> I do that now and things crash and I've to restart ...
[19:29] <czajkowski> alt tabbing between applications is a given
[19:30] <popey> set your expectations lower
[19:30] <kim0> :)
[19:30] <popey> alt-tab has been crashy for me for a long while :)
[19:30] <czajkowski> tis the wise old popey
[19:30] <popey> oi!
[19:31] <czajkowski> ;)
[19:31] <popey> my best mate may be coming along to the beerex
[19:31] <czajkowski> it's gonna be a funn one
[19:31] <czajkowski> trying to get lanky in surrey to come along too
[19:32] <jcastro> I do agree with kees
[19:33] <jcastro> I don't know why we mess with the classic session
[19:33] <jcastro> should have left it ... classic
[19:33] <JFo> yep
[19:34] <Pendulum> I don't understand the messing with classic, either
[19:34] <Pendulum> especially as someone who *can't* use Unity
[19:34] <jcastro> I think I'll bring that up in -desktop post meeting
[19:34] <Pendulum> really what this means is that I'm not going to upgrade and possibly can't upgrade for another year
[19:35] <czajkowski> Pendulum: point that out in -meeting ?
[19:35] <Pendulum> (I can't run 3D, but I need accessibility support and I have a suspicion that 2D a11y support won't be in for Oneiric
[19:35] <Pendulum> )
[19:36] <Pendulum> czajkowski: decision has already been made that accessibility profiles will default to 'Classic'
[19:37] <jcastro> hey JFo
[19:37] <jcastro> gather your 1990's linux users
[19:37] <jcastro> I am going to ask this question on -desktop
[19:38] <JFo> ok
[19:39] <JFo> I'll see who I can find
[19:42] <Pendulum> my biggest complaint with Unity as default is idealogical, not technical. But I don't understand why Classic was messed with
[19:42] <JFo> on the plus side they are planning to do a full on review with release and desktop it looks like
[19:43] <Pendulum> yeah
[19:43] <JFo> I like that mdz isn't settling with just rick's opinion
[19:43] <JFo> I think that is the correct thing
[19:43] <Pendulum> I do too
[19:44]  * czajkowski has a lot of respect for mdz he balances things out
[19:44] <czajkowski> and goes to a lot of rounds to find out the right information before making any decsision
[19:45] <Pendulum> yes, definitely
[19:45] <popey> Pendulum: idealogically how?
[19:46] <Pendulum> I don't think that a distro that claims that one of its core values is accessibility should have a default desktop that's not accessible
[19:47] <jcastro> JFo: ok I'm going to see what rick posts.
[19:47] <jcastro> JFo: and also, we RTM in 21 days
[19:47] <JFo> ok
[19:47] <jcastro> it is a bit late
[19:47] <JFo> indeed
[19:47] <sense> Pendulum: GNOME Panel was restored to the app/places/system menus setup again today.
[19:47] <jcastro> even if DX is landing /animations/ today
[19:47] <Pendulum> yes, 'Classic' is, but if you can't use the default you're sending the message that users who need accessibility are 2nd class
[19:47] <jcastro> sense: wait what? link?
[19:47] <Pendulum> I'm scared about Oneiric when Classic goes completely away
[19:48] <Pendulum> since I haven't seen any discussion of how Unity 2D will be accessible
[19:48] <sense> jcastro: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.2
[19:49] <jcastro> sense: man. awesome.
[19:50] <sense> Today was a horrible day with regard to the updates though: branding-ubuntu came crashing down, taking aptd with it, interrupting udev's udpate process without me knowing it, which made my system unbootable until Stéphane told me to run dpkg --configure -a in chroot.
[19:50] <czajkowski> sense: you starting uni over in the UK in september ?
[19:50] <sense> czajkowski: If everything goes right, I have to be there at 30 september in the afternoon!
[19:50] <czajkowski> sense: which college?
[19:51] <sense> czajkowski: King's College. ;)
[19:51] <czajkowski> where is that ?
[19:51] <sense> czajkowski: King's Parade, Cambridge
[19:52] <czajkowski> sense: well done and best of luck with it
[19:52] <sense> thanks
[19:52] <Pendulum> sense: congrats!
[19:52] <AlanBell> awesome sense
[19:53] <jcastro> sense: are you going to get all english on us?
[19:53] <sense> jcastro: I will talk to you in the most posh posh I can come up with in a few years!
[19:53] <AlanBell> sense: /join #ubuntu-uk
[19:53] <Pendulum> sense: you know AlanBell is going to try to pull you into the UK loco, right? ;-)
[19:53] <czajkowski> it's ok I'm still keeping my Irish accent over here :)
[19:53] <sense> AlanBell: I will certainly take a look, but currently I'm too busy leading Ubuntu NL :)
[19:53] <AlanBell> resistance is futile
[19:53] <Pendulum> and, it seems he has already started while I was typing :P
[19:54] <sense> AlanBell: Lets do a William III here: personal union of LoCos!
[19:54] <Pendulum> haha
[19:54] <czajkowski> this did make my day today though  https://identi.ca/notice/70577200
[19:55] <Pendulum> czajkowski: that's because you're awesome!
[19:55] <sense> czajkowski: Reminds me of remarks from my classmates recently who said they really liked Scottish and Irish accents. Be proud of it!
[19:55] <czajkowski> Pendulum: :)
[19:55] <czajkowski> sense: :)
[19:56] <AlanBell> well King Billy did like Orange
[19:56] <maco> i just learned while at uds orlando who the heck William & Mary are
[19:56] <maco> i did not figure out WHY they have a uni inthe US though
[19:56] <sense> AlanBell: A bit too much, he used his position as stadholder not to benefit the Dutch state, but to grab the English and Scottish thrones
[19:57] <Pendulum> maco: they chartered the college
[19:57] <maco> they're that recent?
[19:57] <sense> maco: 1688
[19:57] <sense> was the invasion
[19:57] <sense> William II died in 1702
[19:57] <sense> William III
[19:58] <maco> i guess i tend to forget anything was even going on in the US pre-1700 other than umm...dying of strange new diseases the invaders had never seen
[19:58] <maco> so...you're saying there were unis founded on this continent prior to 1700?
[19:58] <Pendulum> maco: 1792 for William & Mary
[19:58] <Pendulum> err.. 1692
[19:59] <sense> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_university_in_the_United_States
[19:59] <maco> hmm...its almost like this society is old enough to have history or something
[19:59] <sense> :)
[19:59] <Pendulum> maco: Harvard was 1636
[19:59] <sense> That's almost as old as New York!
[19:59] <Pendulum> (it's oldest, W&M is 2nd)
[19:59] <maco> O_o
[19:59] <maco> but they only got here in 1620!
[20:00] <sense> New Netherlands was established in 1614.
[20:00] <sense> I believe there were already English by then.
[20:00] <AlanBell> yeah, we have proper history
[20:00] <Pendulum> maco: they needed some way to train new ministers
[20:01] <sense> That has indeed been a very important reason for establishing universities.
[20:01] <sense> The same reason we founded our first in 1595.
[20:01] <sense> Which actually isn't even long before 1636.
[20:01] <Pendulum> interestingly, it's never had an official affiliation with a specific church
[20:01] <maco> Plymouth was 1620. were there english here prior to plymouth? if not, nederlanders win
[20:02] <Pendulum> maco: Virginia Bay was 1607, I think
[20:02] <AlanBell> this is like one of those slashdot threads about who has the lowest uid
[20:02] <sense> The Pilgrim Fathers weren't the first, were they?
[20:02] <sense> They just took over everything.
[20:02] <Pendulum> sense: I think they were the first to really take hold
[20:02] <AlanBell> we were invaded by the Romans in 43 AD, beat that!
[20:02] <sense> Wikipedia: "On April 10, 1606, King James I of England issued two charters, one for each of the Virginia Companies, London and Plymouth."
[20:03] <sense> AlanBell: Indian history is history too! :)
[20:03] <maco> this just made me look up whether the reason the dutch came here was mennonite persecution, but it looks like that was 50 years later
[20:03] <Pendulum> first Dutch were traders, I think
[20:04] <Pendulum> and Pennsylvannia Dutch is German, not Dutch
[20:04] <maco> (i said "this society" not "this continent" because the Invasion of the White People marked a societal change, whereas the Brits have been the Brits for 1000 years)
[20:04] <Pici> Deutch
[20:04] <JanC> Pennsylvania Deutsch
[20:04] <sense> Pendulum: Dutch traders were everywhere.
[20:04] <maco> bah howd i forget that?
[20:04] <Pici> (eh, close)
[20:04]  * maco headdesk
[20:04] <sense> Pendulum: Dutch, Deutsch and Duits have the same origin.
[20:04] <maco> i'm pennsylvanian!
[20:05] <Pendulum> maco: you maybe didn't have the history obsession that I did as a kid? ;-)
[20:05] <JanC> and "Dietsch"  ;)
[20:05]  * Pendulum did recreation colonial and early 1800s summer camps and everything
[20:05] <sense> Pendulum: They all referred to a group of people living in the Netherlands and probably a large part of Germany. We and the Germans started to use it for all Germans, the English for Dutch.
[20:05] <maco> Pendulum: i had a field trip to meet the amish! and they splained this! and i even was thinking it a couple days ago! and i still forgotted
[20:05]  * Pici remembers learning most of this in school
[20:05] <maco> Pendulum: also, my obsession with history is several centuries earlier than yours
[20:05]  * maco is going to Pennsic this year!
[20:05] <Pici> I don't necessarily remember it, but I remember learning it ;)
[20:06] <Pendulum> maco: I live with a Medieval/Renn Studies major (and if my brother lived here, it'd be with 2)
[20:06] <maco> Pendulum: kickass!
[20:06] <maco> erm i mean
[20:06] <maco> AWESOME
[20:06] <maco> <_<
[20:06] <maco> >_>
[20:06] <Pendulum> maco: ask my mum about it this summer since I suspect we will see you again :P
[20:06] <sense> I like it how we funded the US rebels as part of our anti-British foreign policy and now we are controlled by the US. It's inverse!
[20:06] <maco> Pendulum: for a moment, i thought you meant you were going to come to pennsic too
[20:07] <sense> History is awesome.
[20:07] <maco> then i remembered
[20:07]  * maco smiles at Dr Moon
[20:07] <Pendulum> maco: nope. I don't have SCA interests and will probably not be travelling at that point anyway
[20:08] <maco> (this isnt #kubuntu-devel... can i still make gratuitous Doctor Who references and have them be recognised?)
[20:08] <Pendulum> maco: :)
[20:08] <Pici> (either I'm forgetful, or the references are too old for me)
[20:08] <maco> Pendulum: Silence in the Library / Forest of the DEad
[20:08] <Pici> Oh, oh, that guy.
[20:08] <czajkowski> :D
[20:09] <Pici> I was going to watch that episode this past weekend again, but I went with The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang instead.
[20:09] <AlanBell> http://starrgazr.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/john-cleeses-letter-to-america/
[20:09] <JanC> sense: the funny thing about New Amsterdam is also that the first "Dutch" settlement there were people from Hainaut (part of the French-speaking Wallonia in Belgium)   :P
[20:09] <Pendulum> I need to catch up. I haven't actually seen the 2nd half of the last series :-/
[20:10] <Pici> New Series starts on the 23rd.
[20:10] <maco> AlanBell: #1 also needs "leisure" and "schedule"
[20:10] <sense> JanC: Nationality wasn't very important. During the Anglo-Dutch wars many Dutch ships were manned with English, who fought for us because we paid better.
[20:11] <JanC> it was part of the Netherlands back then I think
[20:11] <JanC> but French-speaking  ;)
[20:11] <sense> AlanBell: That is an awesome letter. Though terribly politically incorrect, probably. But great. :)
[20:11] <sense> JanC: In those days Belgium was the primary battlefield of the Western world. Territory there has changed hands much since.
[20:12] <sense> "(except Kansas, which she does not fancy)" LOL
[20:12] <maco> AlanBell: "leisure" now sounds right to me your way. listened to Rat Race by the Specials a few too many times ;-)
[20:12] <JanC> sense: it's still, just nowadays it's diplomatic battles being fought  ☺
[20:12] <sense> fitting
[20:12] <sense> maco: In the US the pronounce it like leesure, right?
[20:13] <maco> sense: yes
[20:13] <JanC> with the EU, NATO, Swift, etc. all being located in/near Brussels
[20:14] <sense> I recently looked up how many 'security-related' organisations/institutions the EU has.
[20:14] <sense> There even is a European Union Military Staff! Though that only has an advisory role.
[20:20] <maco> "You must tell us who killed JFK. It’s been driving us mad."
[20:22] <JanC> didn't a million people tell you who killed him already?  ;)
[20:22] <Pici> Wow, Hoary was released 6 years ago tomorrow.
[20:23] <maco> AlanBell: how does the pronunciation of "revocation" differ between the US and the UK though?
[20:25] <sense> maco: Maybe it's just about the meaning.
[20:25] <maco> sense: it says pronunciation
[20:25] <sense> for aluminium
[20:26] <sense> maco: howjsay.com puts the stress on the first e
[20:27] <maco> aluminium i knew about it
[20:27] <sense> We had to learn this whole list of differences at school and make a choice to stick with.
[20:27] <maco> the one in howjsay sounds normal to me
[20:28] <AlanBell> maco: no idea, I just say "revocation"
[20:28] <AlanBell> well actually I don't very much, pretty rare word to actually use
[20:28] <sense> howjsay usually says two when the British and American pronuncation differ
[20:29] <sense> e.g. http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=either
[20:29] <sense> '12. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling “gasoline”) – roughly $8/US per gallon. Get used to it.' Will you survive?
[20:32] <maco> sense: ee versus aye in "either" isnt USvUK
[20:33] <sense> maco: Oh, of course. I forgot that. I actually heard Jeremy Clarkson say eether at least once.
[20:33] <maco> (at least, in the US both are acceptable!)
[20:33] <sense> Well, the Oxford Dictionary uses -ize, the differences aren't always following country boundaries.
[20:33] <jcastro> JFo: I doomed myself yesterday
[20:34] <JFo> how so?
[20:34] <jcastro> so usually towards late beta I backup/clean/and redo
[20:34] <JFo> yeah
[20:34] <jcastro> so I did that yesterday, kickstart
[20:34] <jcastro> it takes me like an hour tops
[20:34] <jcastro> all smooth
[20:34] <jcastro> then, I spent some time making it just right
[20:35] <jcastro> today I realize I i386'ed, so I'm missing like 6+gb of ram
[20:35] <JFo> argh!
[20:35] <jcastro> "man why are my VMs so slow?!?!"
[20:35] <JFo> oh man, that sucks
[20:35] <jcastro> it got the wrong netboot img
[20:35] <JFo> I almost did that on this laptop last time
[20:35] <JFo> I was kicking off the install when I realized
[20:36] <JFo> are you fixed now or are you gonna have to redo it?
[20:36] <jcastro> this is why I want cobbler
[20:36] <jcastro> just go do that stuff
[20:36] <jcastro> and gen me a nice curses menu on pxe pls.
[20:36] <JFo> heh
[20:36] <jcastro> JFo: gonna redo it, just been waiting for all the unity releases today so I can test it all at once
[20:36] <JFo> yeah, good call
[20:37] <JFo> I'm going crazy looking at bugs
[20:37] <JFo> well, I was always crazy
[20:37] <jcastro> I know right
[20:37] <JFo> just getting worse, I fear
[20:37] <jcastro> it's nice to redo it all clean, and look back on the cycle
[20:37] <JFo> yep
[20:39] <popey> 20:32:28 < maco> sense: ee versus aye in "either" isnt USvUK
[20:39] <popey> thats not clear cut
[20:40] <jcastro> akgraner: everything's set, just need announcements
[20:45] <maco> popey: is only one accepted there while both are fine here?
[20:58]  * jcastro wishes we defaulted to 32px for the launcher
[21:16] <mhall119> if Fedora 16 is called the Beefy Miracle, the rest of the FLOSS community no longer gets to complain about Ubuntu release names
[21:16] <popey> i doubt redhat will allow that to happen
[21:16] <mhall119> jcastro: better idea would be to auto-size based on the number of launchers kept in the launcher
[21:16] <mhall119> the more you have, the smaller the icons
[21:17] <mhall119> popey: allow which, the name, or people no longer complaining about Ubuntu's names
[21:17] <popey> the name :)
[21:18] <mhall119> that'd be pretty anti-community, if someone decided to unilaterally reject a name with popular support

[21:19]  * popey whispers the worlds smallest 'meh'
[21:20]  * jcastro is glad we don't mention the names as prominently as we used to
[21:20] <jono> jcastro, so is a Unity release on it's way?
[21:20] <jcastro> jono: already in there
[21:20] <jono> jcastro, cool
[21:20] <jcastro> some parts haven't built yet
[21:20] <jcastro> but there's a new ayatana stack upload anyway
[21:21] <jcastro> give it an hour or so and you should be set, testing it now on a clean install
[21:21] <jono> jcastro, awesome
[21:21] <jono> thanks
[21:22] <jcastro> jono: and in awesome news, seb made the classic mode classic again
[21:22] <jcastro> so it's what it was before, not like the old panel with the weird menu and appmenu
[21:24] <jcastro> jono: in case you missed it the ayatana scrollbars are in too
[21:26] <popey> ubuntu.com seems sick
[21:30] <czajkowski> popey: in what way ?
[21:31] <jono> jcastro, cool
[21:31] <jono> jcastro, yeah scrollbars don't work on all apps
[21:31] <popey> czajkowski: nvm, reported to sysadmins
[21:31] <czajkowski> popey: fair enough
[21:31] <jono> jcastro, thanks for getting dbarth lined up for tomorrow
[21:32] <jcastro> jono: maybe announce it now?
[21:32] <jcastro> people always have tons of unity questions
[21:32] <jcastro> we could have a good turnout
[21:33] <jono> jcastro, will do
[21:33] <jono> just grabbing lunch and then will
[21:33] <jono> do
[21:35] <pleia2> popey: the awfulness of sounder caused me to set up mutt today because it has threading (that unity & israel thread was horrible)
[21:35] <popey> wondering whether to put it on the cc agenda
[21:36] <pleia2> yeah, I think we should
[21:36] <popey> leave -users alone, just kill sounder
[21:36] <jcastro> sounder used to be so amazing. :(
[21:36] <Technoviking> sweet naaty working on Macbook, now to get Unity running
[21:36] <pleia2> I never really bought the argument of "if we don't have sounder the ubuntu-users list will have no where to dump the offtopic people"
[21:36] <pleia2> actually, they have the rest of the internet :)
[21:37] <popey> the offtopic people can.. GTFO IMO
[21:37] <Technoviking> crap can't upgrade now, unity package are being help back
[21:37] <jcastro> Technoviking: you're in the middle of the upload
[21:37] <jcastro> Technoviking: it's ok, it's nothing but fixes, give it until the top of the hour
[21:37] <jcastro> that's when the next publisher run should go
[21:38] <pleia2> popey: "For about the eleventy-billionth time." grin
[21:38] <Technoviking> cool, will work on nvidia and getting Unity happy-ish
[21:38] <akgraner> jcastro, roger that
[21:38] <popey> :)
[21:39] <Technoviking> With Sounder, #ubuntu-offtopic, and Community Cafe forum Ubuntu slogan should be "Ubuntu, we let you bitch":)
[21:40] <pleia2> I don't know much about the forums, but the other two are mostly just toxic
[21:40] <jcastro> but it used to not be like that
[21:40] <jcastro> it was like how we are in here right now
[21:40] <jcastro> chit chat fun
[21:40] <pleia2> I was actually interested in the unity thread (they were all complaining and stuff, but it's nice to know what people are complaining about)
[21:40] <pleia2> not so much interested when they started on a giant rant about israel and palestine
[21:41] <Technoviking> pleia2: the worst part it is really a few people stirring up folks
[21:41] <pleia2> Technoviking: yeah :\
[21:41] <pleia2> and we've talked to them before
[21:41] <Technoviking> the unity rwached Godwin at epic speed
[21:42] <popey> i should have stepped in early on
[21:42] <popey> :(
[21:43] <pleia2> you've worn the flak jacket a lot on both -users and sounder
[21:44] <pleia2> no one else is willing to (I'm a bit too thin-skinned at the moment for it)
[21:44] <Technoviking> Unity-fied:) and I think all the hardware except nvidia work on my Macbook Pro OOTB
[21:46] <jcastro> i'd be more than happy to get yelled at
[21:46] <jcastro> after the forums this should be easy. :p
[21:47] <popey> hah
[21:47] <popey> feel free to join sounder and slap people about a bit
[21:47] <Technoviking> heh
[21:47] <jcastro> can't we make jono do it?
[21:48] <pleia2> more eyes on -users would be nice too (but that's calmed down a lot)
[21:48] <jcastro> he's at lunch, let's pile up on him so when he comes back he won't know any better
[21:48] <pleia2> lol
[21:48] <Technoviking> is skype in natty yet in canonical archive?
[21:48] <jcastro> I don't think it is
[21:48] <jcastro> I grabbed the new beta by hand last night
[21:49] <jcastro> I upgraded my wife to natty
[21:49] <Technoviking> bbiab, need to get son at school
[21:50] <jcastro> ok on second thought, I'm staying out of sounder
[21:50] <jcastro> reading that makes me want to quit
[21:50] <jcastro> someone should really flag all this junk for the CC though
[21:51] <popey> as far as I can tell everyone joining in is a non-contributor, in pretty much every sense
[21:53] <jcastro> to be fair, ogra has been complaining about the noise/garbage in ubuntu-user for like 4 years.
[21:53] <popey> -users is much better
[21:54] <pleia2> yeah, we actually kicked some people off -users earlier this year, it helped
[21:55] <jcastro> if the CC would just grant me some temporary powers

[21:56] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[21:56] <popey> done
[21:57] <pleia2> you forgot the part about it being a wretched hive of scum and villainy
[21:57]  * popey re-edits
[21:57] <pleia2> (jcastro started the star wars thing!)
[21:58] <jcastro> In order to ensure the safety and security of the community
[21:58] <jcastro> Ubuntu will be reorganize!
[21:58] <jcastro> into the first, galactic ..... empire!
[21:58] <czajkowski> heh
[21:58] <jcastro> for a safe! and secure ..... society!
[21:58] <pleia2> :)
 so, this is how libery dies
 with thunderous applause!
[21:59] <pleia2> noo, that was padme!
[21:59] <popey> I actually put on voices as I read those lines out
[21:59] <pleia2> haha
[21:59]  * JFo looks good in black
[21:59] <popey> losing it
[21:59] <popey> JFo: .... pudding ?
[21:59] <jcastro> pleia2: are you watching clone wars? (the cgi cartoon?)
[22:00] <JFo> dunno popey never worn pudding before :)
[22:00] <popey> ..PROCESSING..
[22:00] <pleia2> jcastro: nah, I pretty much gave up on the new stuff
[22:00] <popey> ..NEGATIVE..
[22:05] <popey> I see Charlie gives Avi an apology, yet the insult was thrown at me.
[22:05] <popey> nice, really nice
[22:06] <jcastro> ooh link
[22:06] <jcastro> pleia2: I love the new stuff
[22:06] <jcastro> I think I am the only one though
[22:07] <popey> Meh.
[22:13] <JanC> popey: sounder ?  ☺
[22:13] <popey> yes. sounder
[22:14] <JanC> some people on sounder have nothing else to do, it seems...  ;)
[22:15] <JanC> or they have a compulsion to answer to every single mail on the list
[22:33] <Technoviking> popey: good call on adding sounder to CC agenda
[22:34] <popey> ta
[22:34] <popey> Daviey: seen the reply from James?
[22:34] <popey> get packaging etherpad! :D
[22:35] <Technoviking> half the fun at UDS is bitching about Gobby, what madness is next, curing the Ubuflu:)
[22:35] <Technoviking> heh
[22:36] <Pendulum> ubuflu will never go away
[22:44] <JFo> it simply waits
[22:48] <JanC> popey: etherpad survives UDS now?
[22:49] <Pici> Its going to go away at a UDS that ends on Friday the 13th? I think not.
[22:49] <JanC> I seem to remember that during the presentation of etherpad at UDS-M the thing went into zen-meditation mode and stopped responding  ;)
[22:50] <jcastro> JanC: that's because it was running on some cheap linode
[22:50] <popey> that was because nobody warned daviey
[22:50] <popey> worst demo ever
[22:51] <popey> stuck in everyones minds
[22:51] <jcastro> or on some i386 in his living room
[22:51] <AlanBell> I wouldn't have done it if I knew there would be negative consequences of it failing
[22:52] <AlanBell> or I would have done it on a server I knew was built for the load
[22:52] <AlanBell> which we did move on to after we knocked down the first one
[22:52] <popey> sorry, didnt mean it like that
[22:53] <AlanBell> its OK, I agree with you
[22:53] <JanC> well, it was probably also because 100 people connected within seconds
[22:53] <AlanBell> yeah, all loading the UI
[22:54] <AlanBell> the actual load of running clients isn't going to be much at all
[22:54] <popey> maybe we could set one up and see how many people we can get on it
[22:54] <AlanBell> I did pre-announce that I was going to demo etherpad and that server as a lightning talk
[22:55] <JanC> I was on the server before the talk started BTW  ;)
[22:55] <AlanBell> I just didn't make it clear I was going to start the talk with "everyone pile on this URL, lets see if we can crash this thing"
[22:55] <popey> given I wont be at UDS and will be at work so behind a proxy I cant use gobby easily at all.
[22:56] <Pici> What did you expect people were going to do?
[22:56] <AlanBell> what does james want in terms of packaging?
[22:56] <akgraner> jcastro, proposed announcement in your inbox....
[22:56] <popey> AlanBell: something that runs on lucid I'd imagine
[22:56] <AlanBell> Pici: *I* expected them to all pile on, I don't know what Daviey expected!
[22:56] <popey> if a package can be made that can just be installed and up and running on a lucid VM
[22:56] <AlanBell> popey: well there is a .deb
[22:56] <popey> does it work?
[22:57] <popey> i suspect he wants someone to own it
[22:57]  * popey tickles Daviey
[22:58] <AlanBell> I don't know if it works, but I could find out
[22:58] <AlanBell> I am not sure if that is sufficient, or if he wants it in Debian or something
[22:58] <akgraner> everytime someone mentions etherpad I have this overwhelming need to say, "I <3 etherpad!"
[22:58] <popey> http://apt.etherpad.org/
[22:58] <popey> i have it on hilight akgraner :)
[22:58] <akgraner> popey, sweet!
[23:00] <JanC> how much resources does it really need?
[23:00]  * popey says "java" at JanC
[23:01]  * AlanBell wonders if it will install on Natty server
[23:02] <popey> http://www.threadless.com/product/2574/Spacebar/tab,girls/style,shirt
[23:02] <popey> i love that t-shirt
[23:03] <AlanBell> etherpad : Depends: sun-java6-jdk but it is not installable
[23:03] <popey> http://apt.etherpad.org/binary-i386/sun-java6-jdk_6-13-1_i386.deb
[23:03] <popey> also amd64 version available
[23:04] <popey> or not
[23:04] <popey> :S
[23:04] <JanC> it needs Sun Java?
[23:04] <Pici> Interesting
[23:04] <popey> http://apt.etherpad.org/dists/all/source/
[23:04] <popey> the source debs
[23:04] <popey> for someone who might want to change them
[23:05] <popey> http://mclear.co.uk/2010/03/10/installing-etherpad-on-debian/ is useful here
[23:06] <AlanBell> I think I will leave the packaging part of the problem to the experts
[23:07] <Technoviking> Evolution or Thunderbird in Natty?
[23:08] <popey> evolution seems okay
[23:08] <AlanBell> I am happy to spin up a VM running any version of Ubuntu with anything up to 10GB of ram if someone wants to do some load testing
[23:08] <popey> we could do that during the podcast on tuesday?
[23:09] <AlanBell> and there are some summit tweaks which could be put in place if we are going to have notes on etherpad
[23:09] <Pici> Did we ditch having an 'RC' for 'Beta 2'?
[23:10] <AlanBell> popey: I kind of know john mclear who runs primarypad
[23:11] <popey> heh
[23:11] <popey> maybe he could speak up about performance
[23:15] <IdleOne> Pici: yes
[23:16] <IdleOne> to extend the "testing period" iirc
[23:17] <JanC> more like not wanting to release a RC just before the Easter weekend, I think...  ;)
[23:30] <Technoviking> hmmm.. evolution is showing 24 hour instead of 12 hour time
[23:34] <akgraner> Pici, yep this release it will go straight from beta 2 to final
[23:35] <Pici> akgraner, IdleOne: thanks for the info
[23:35] <IdleOne> welcome
[23:38] <cjohnston> akgraner: wanna come help me paint?
[23:52] <akgraner> cjohnston, uh nope :-)
[23:55] <popey> cjohnston: I'll do it!
[23:55] <popey> You pay for the flight, I'll bring the beer!
[23:56] <popey> (it'll get me out of painting my sons bedroom this weekend!)
[23:56] <popey> oh. Hang on.
[23:56] <akgraner> dang a plane ticket might be cheaper than hiring someone  ;-)
[23:56] <popey> :D
[23:56] <akgraner> depending on how much you have to paint
[23:57] <akgraner> I am ban from painting anything at my house ever again...all because about 10 years or so ago I painted one of the bathrooms purple
[23:57] <popey> ITYM Aubergine ;)
[23:57] <akgraner> while Pete was out of town...he was less than thrilled...
[23:58] <popey> heh
[23:58] <popey> It's the artistic side in you I'm sure he loves :)
[23:58] <akgraner> sure we'll go with love...
[23:59] <Pendulum> akgraner: was it an aubergine purple?


[10:21] <rmg51> Morning
[10:23] <JonathanD> 1/059
[10:23] <JonathanD> rmg51: morning.
[10:23] <rmg51> o/
[10:24] <rmg51> are the fun and games of yesterday over now?
[10:24] <JonathanD> School is delayed.
[10:24] <JonathanD> Don't know otherwise.
[10:24] <JonathanD> I was down the city yesterday.
[10:25] <JonathanD> The biggest snow related issue I had was not being able to pay for my parking at the septa station.
[10:25] <rmg51> I was asking about Freenode
[10:25] <JonathanD> oh
[10:25] <JonathanD> well yes, that too.
[10:26] <JonathanD> Incidentally, we could use more well connected (in internet terms, that is) sponsors :P
[10:26] <rmg51> both being over is a good thing
[12:58] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
[14:56] <lazyPower> Morning teddy o/
[14:57] <lazyPower> and everyone else \o
[19:42] <Guest37124> AFternoon
[19:42] <Guest37124> Hey why did I become a guest all of a sudden ?
[20:49] <MutantTurkey> i got suckered into planning valentines day
[20:49] <MutantTurkey> any ideas for the city?
[20:52] <Guest37124> MutantTurkey: you're doing the valentines celebration for the city ?


[19:53] <emma> unquery
[19:58] <cjohnston> doin that everywhere huh emma ?
[20:00] <emma> cjohnston -- Not on purpose.
[20:00] <emma> cjohnston, i was intending to close all my open queries since i have been gone for a week and there are a hundred of them.
[20:00] <cjohnston> lol
[20:00] <emma> i typed /foreach window /unquery   which did something different than i expected. . .
[20:00] <cjohnston> I saw about 4
[20:00] <cjohnston> hehe
[20:00] <cjohnston> ;-)
[20:00] <emma> yeah im in a lot of channels....
[20:00] <emma> oops!