[00:43] <luis> hello?
[06:16] <warp10> @now
[13:01] <highvoltage> xubuntu meeting is in an hour right?
[13:04] <gnomefreak> t
[13:04] <gnomefreak> yes 56 minutes highvoltage
[13:04] <highvoltage> ok kewl
[13:58] <j1mc> hi all
[14:00] <TuxCrafter> hi jim
[14:01] <j1mc> who all is here for the xubuntu meeting this morning?
[14:01] <j1mc> hi TuxCrafter
[14:01] <charlie-tca> good morning, I'm here
[14:01] <j1mc> hi charlie-tca
[14:01] <technolalia> I'm here for the Xubuntu meeting
[14:01] <j1mc> good morning, tec
[14:02] <j1mc> sorry, technolalia
[14:02] <j1mc> yeay!
[14:03] <cody-somerville> :)
[14:03] <j1mc> hi all, there's an agenda that i put together up on the wiki
[14:03] <j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[14:03] <j1mc> please have a quick look at it, if you haven't already
[14:04]  * cody-somerville takes a look.
[14:05] <cody-somerville> j1mc, Any particular order you want to go in?
[14:05] <j1mc> well, the strategy document is pretty meaty, and i was thinking that would be pretty important, but i'm just waking up.  maybe we could get to that second?
[14:06] <j1mc> let's go ahead and start with the website.
[14:06] <cody-somerville> Sounds good to me :)
[14:07] <j1mc> i've put up a draft of the project plan up on pastebin.
[14:07] <j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/1070047
[14:08] <j1mc> what i was working toward with creating that project plan was ...
[14:08] <Rev_> i dont know if this has anything to do here, but something really bothered me in xubuntu is the fact that it doesn deal with the ntfs partitions as ubuntu does. i mean, in ubuntu, they appear mounted in the file browser naturally. in thunar, they aint mounted, and even manually mounted, they aint displayed in Thunar as a shortcut. but maybe, it has only to do with thunar and not xubuntu itself...
[14:08] <j1mc> to create a team of individuals who would each be assigned a small chunk of the overall project
[14:09] <j1mc> Rev_: we'll get to those kinds of items later in the meeting.
[14:09] <j1mc> thanks for being here, though.  :]
[14:09] <Rev_> j1mc, ok, i gotta go right now, so, if i dont show up later (cause its family lunch time right now :) ), just try to think about this request ;)
[14:09] <Rev_> thanks and good luck for the meeting, bye
[14:10] <j1mc> at this time, i'd like to see if we can identify team members who might like to be involved with the project
[14:10] <j1mc> from an internal, xubuntu-volunteer project perspective.
[14:10] <cody-somerville> I can help with it.
[14:10] <charlie-tca> I can help
[14:10] <j1mc> :]
[14:11] <j1mc> charlie-tca and cody-somerville are there any areas in particular that you were thinking of working?
[14:11] <j1mc> charlie-tca: i'm not as familiar with your skills, other than your great wiki contributions.  :]
[14:11] <cody-somerville> I can take care of the technical stuff
[14:12] <cody-somerville> so we just need content and a great theme
[14:12] <j1mc> of course, i am willing to work on the organization and content
[14:12] <technolalia> is the xubuntu site really on drupal *4.0*?
[14:12] <j1mc> technolalia: yes
[14:12] <charlie-tca> I can work on content
[14:13] <charlie-tca> I ran my sites on drupal a year ago, now I'm using Xoops
[14:13] <technolalia> then isn't updating that the number one priority?
[14:13] <j1mc> charlie-tca: thanks.  :]
[14:14] <j1mc> technolalia: yes, it's important.  would you be interested in helping out at all?
[14:14] <technolalia> I'm currently learning the latest drupal (6.2)
[14:14] <technolalia> no experience of 4, or of updating
[14:15] <technolalia> woul dbe interested in helping if it was 6.x
[14:15] <j1mc> technolalia: i don't think we were going to do much of an "upgrade" migration so much as starting fresh.
[14:15] <j1mc> (others can correct me if i'm wrong on that)
[14:16] <cody-somerville> We'll use the latest version of Drupal
[14:16] <technolalia> then I'm interested in helping out
[14:16] <j1mc> technolalia: do you know php and css?  would you be interested in working with cody-somerville and any others on the technical end?
[14:17] <technolalia> learning php, know some css
[14:17] <cody-somerville> What we really need is someone who knows la CSS
[14:17] <cody-somerville> and someone to do the art
[14:17] <technolalia> web dev is what I'm going to be concentrating on professionally
[14:17] <cody-somerville> We need a theme
[14:17]  * j1mc nods
[14:18] <charlie-tca> I'm brushing up on CSS; maybe I can help with that, too
[14:18] <highvoltage> howdy!
[14:18] <technolalia> would jmac be interested in helping with the artwork?
[14:18] <j1mc> heya highvoltage
[14:18] <technolalia> he does the xubuntu artwork
[14:18] <technolalia> (which is v. good, imho)
[14:19] <j1mc> technolalia: of course, i will ask jmak.  it would be great if he could assist with some artwork / color scheme work.
[14:19] <j1mc> i agree with cody in that the CSS / theme would probably be one of the parts where we would need the most help.
[14:20] <cody-somerville> Its always where we've stumbled with the website redesign efforts before
[14:20] <j1mc> i know we have people here who are brushing up on CSS or are learning it, but we really need someone who is already sharp with it.
[14:20] <j1mc> cody-somerville: right
[14:20] <highvoltage> yep, the current one is still a friends-electric based one that was done so long ago, I can hardy remember it
[14:20] <highvoltage> *hardly
[14:20] <highvoltage> (force of habbit)
[14:21] <j1mc> perhaps we could attract someone if we already had a well-laid out plan of site structure and intended content.
[14:22] <j1mc> to say, "we need these modules for this content," and then post to ubuntu-art mailing lists, and the ubuntu-art portion of the forum
[14:23] <j1mc> it doesn't sound like we have anyone here who is ready to step up on the theme part, though, and i think we should move ahead on other parts w/o having the theme part in place.  so that way when we get the theme workers, we won't be holding them up with content.
[14:23] <j1mc> thoughts?
[14:24] <technolalia> yes: plan first
[14:24] <highvoltage> that sounds like a good idea, having some kind of roadmap and goals for the site.
[14:24] <charlie-tca> agreed
[14:24] <technolalia> jlmc: can you put your pastebin text on the wiki?
[14:24] <j1mc> highvoltage: i have a rough project plan here: http://pastebin.ca/1070047
[14:24] <j1mc> technolalia: i was just thinking to do that
[14:24] <j1mc> so i will
[14:24] <highvoltage> at least there won't be people working aginst each other if there is an agreed roadmap
[14:25] <j1mc> because this is a larger project, i was also going to coordinate standing meetings on it.
[14:25] <highvoltage> j1mc: hmm, that pastebin link doesn't want to open here :-/
[14:26] <j1mc> http://pastebin.ca/1070047
[14:26] <j1mc> better?
[14:26] <charlie-tca> I have the pastebin open, here
[14:27] <j1mc> ok, so we have cody and technolalia who are interested in the technical drupal/php parts of it
[14:27] <j1mc> myself and charlie-tca who are interested in the structure / content of it
[14:27] <j1mc> possibly jmak (i'm optimistic / hopeful) who could assist with the artwork parts
[14:28] <technolalia> I'm interested in the content side as well
[14:28] <j1mc> technolalia: thanks
[14:28] <technolalia> though I don't know how much time I could put towards that
[14:28] <technolalia> keeping news, links and release notes up to date needs to be done regularly
[14:28] <j1mc> technolalia: np.  i'd rather have us focus on just one part each so that we don't spread ourselves too thin
[14:29] <technolalia> sure
[14:29] <j1mc> we will enlist help from outside the xubuntu team, too
[14:29] <j1mc> but i wanted to get things started internally first
[14:30] <j1mc> i will get the wiki on this up and moving today, including content sections, and will invite ideas/contributions from others
[14:30] <j1mc> any other thoughts on this for now?
[14:31] <cody-somerville> I think I have a theme
[14:31] <j1mc> that's good. :]
[14:32] <j1mc> any other thoughts on it for now?
[14:33] <j1mc> any thoughts on moving forward after the wiki page is set up?  is there a particular night (i was thinking of meeting every week initially, and then every two weeks once we're up and moving) that would work well to meet?
[14:34] <cody-somerville> Touching base weekly would be good
[14:34] <cody-somerville> What sort of goals do we have?
[14:35] <charlie-tca> Weekly, to start is good
[14:35] <j1mc> vague ones for now?  :)  (me admits the truth of the matter).  i think the initial goal is to secure contributors, split up the tasks into meaningful, manageable chunks, and to make steady progress.
[14:36] <j1mc> the site goals, are TBD by the team.
[14:36] <j1mc> that's my thought
[14:37] <j1mc> i will put together a more detailed project plan on the wiki.
[14:37] <cody-somerville> I'd like to have the new website ready for Intrepid
[14:37] <j1mc> definitely.  sorry for not being explicit about that, but that is a definite goal.
[14:37] <j1mc> and it will factor in to our timeline.
[14:38] <cody-somerville> Okay
[14:38] <cody-somerville> Sounds good.
[14:39] <j1mc> i'm glad that we have some volunteers amongst the team.  :]  charlie-tca, technolalia, and cody-somerville ... i look forward to working with you on this project!
[14:39] <cody-somerville> :]
[14:39] <j1mc> w000t
[14:39] <charlie-tca> :)
[14:39] <j1mc> ok, on to the next topic?
[14:39] <j1mc> oh, wait...
[14:39] <j1mc> meeting dates?  weekly?
[14:39] <j1mc> i was thinking wednesday
[14:40] <charlie-tca> Bad day here
[14:40] <j1mc> what time zones are people in?
[14:40] <j1mc> ok... what day works for people?
[14:40] <charlie-tca> anything but Wednesday
[14:41] <technolalia> I'm in gmt +1 (UK)
[14:41]  * charlie-tca time zone gmt -6
[14:41] <j1mc> i'm utc-5
[14:43] <j1mc> thursday at utc 1800?
[14:43] <charlie-tca> great
[14:43] <j1mc> cody-somerville and technolalia ?
[14:43] <cody-somerville> I'm -3 currently
[14:44]  * TuxCrafter Sat Jul 12 15:43:58 CEST 2008 (i am back)
[14:44] <j1mc> would thursdays at utc 1800 work for brief meeting updates?  cody-somerville i think you'd be at work during those times
[14:44] <technolalia> can't make this coming Thursday
[14:44] <technolalia> would generally prefer earlier in the week
[14:44] <cody-somerville> j1mc, I can make the meeting when I'm at work
[14:45] <j1mc> tuesdays at utc 1800 then?
[14:46] <technolalia> fine by me
[14:46] <j1mc> we could skip this first week bc we don't have much advance notice, and i don't even know my schedule for this tuesday
[14:46] <j1mc> (i would have to head out on my lunch break to meet)
[14:47]  * cody-somerville nods.
[14:47] <charlie-tca> Okay
[14:47] <j1mc> ok.  tuesdays at utc 1800.  :]
[14:47] <j1mc> on to the next topic then.
[14:48] <j1mc> cody-somerville: did you want to talk about the strategy document?
[14:49] <cody-somerville> Next CC meeting it is going before the community council
[14:50] <cody-somerville> I hope everyone shows up for it
[14:50] <j1mc> ok.  when's the meeting?
[14:50] <cody-somerville> Tuesday
[14:51] <j1mc> cool.  i think i can make that one.
[14:52] <j1mc> it's at 11:00 utc, right?
[14:52] <cody-somerville> I believe so
[14:52] <j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[14:54] <j1mc> anything else to add about the strategy document for now?
[14:54] <technolalia> have you got an url for it?
[14:55] <technolalia> ah, just found it
[14:55] <technolalia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Intrepid/StrategyDocument
[14:55] <charlie-tca> I spotted a couple of sentences I will email. Wording is strange
[14:58] <j1mc> does anyone here have any information on the status of xfce4.6?
[14:59] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: they are working on the intergration of xfconf
[14:59]  * cody-somerville nods.
[14:59] <TuxCrafter> and have some problems
[14:59] <TuxCrafter> its will take a while
[14:59] <TuxCrafter> not much time there
[14:59] <j1mc> TuxCrafter: so they haven't released an alpha yet?
[15:00] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: em em there is something for testing
[15:00] <TuxCrafter> but i would not call it a alpha
[15:00]  * j1mc nods
[15:01] <j1mc> we had initially intended to include 4.6 in intrepid.  does this delay put this at risk?
[15:01] <j1mc> do you think?
[15:01] <TuxCrafter> i would like to see an new upstream theme engine and system
[15:01] <TuxCrafter> for xfce
[15:01] <gpocentek> j1mc: it is a risk IMO
[15:01] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: hard to say the developers will not say a date.. its done when its doen
[15:01] <TuxCrafter> s/doen/done/\
[15:02]  * j1mc nods
[15:02] <TuxCrafter> just put latest upstream release in as target for xubuntu
[15:03] <TuxCrafter> we can always package latest stable and latest testing or not?
[15:03] <gpocentek> we can't have both in the repos
[15:03] <mr_pouit> just put it in the xubuntu-team ppa
[15:03] <j1mc> could we have the testing in a PPA?
[15:03] <j1mc> right
[15:05] <j1mc> i'm not so much involved in the packaging.  mr_pouit gpocentek ... do you have anything you'd like to say about this at this time?
[15:06] <gpocentek> personnaly i'd rather spend time on something else than packaging 4.6
[15:06] <gpocentek> but mr_pouit doesn't have the same opinion i think:)
[15:07]  * TuxCrafter i am back my intel display driver crashed
[15:07] <j1mc> welcome back, TuxCrafter
[15:09] <j1mc> ok, well it sounds like including the latest stable xfce for intrepid would be the way to go, and then including 4.6 in the ppa would be an option if it hasn't been released / isn't massively broken would be an option.
[15:09] <j1mc> ah... typos.  :/
[15:10] <j1mc> gpocentek: while you're here.  you had included an item about goffice/gnumeric.
[15:10] <j1mc> what did you want to say about it?
[15:10] <mr_pouit> merging
[15:10] <cody-somerville> As long as they're relatively close to the target they've identified, we can ship 4.6
[15:10] <gpocentek> yep, do we keep the merges?
[15:10] <mr_pouit> no (for both questions)
[15:10] <gpocentek> they seem useless to me
[15:10] <gpocentek> (-gtk variant)
[15:11] <gpocentek> core dev don't want to handle those merges either
[15:11] <mr_pouit> cody-somerville: since it's the 4.6.*0*, there is a big risk of regressions.
[15:11] <gpocentek> cody-somerville: did you test the svn at least?
[15:12] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, I agree and thats why we need to get 4.6.0 into Intrepid ASAP
[15:12] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, Not yet.
[15:12] <mr_pouit> you're kidding, right?
[15:13] <gpocentek> cody-somerville: please test it
[15:13] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: What do you think about having both 4.4 and 4.6 in the repo?
[15:13] <TuxCrafter> i think we can make 4.6
[15:14] <gpocentek> i'm not sure it's doable
[15:14] <cody-somerville> KDE has two versions
[15:14] <gpocentek> kde 3 and 4 are entirely different
[15:14] <gpocentek> different libs, sonames, apps, installation paths, etc
[15:15] <gpocentek> not xfce 4.4 & 4.6
[15:15] <TuxCrafter> based on this last mail i think its 4.6 is should be possible > http://pastebin.ca/1070074
[15:15] <gpocentek> TuxCrafter: alpha is not there yet
[15:16] <gpocentek> the thing is that 4.6 will not be different on the user side
[15:16] <gpocentek> there are only a few changes, and big risks to have regressions
[15:16] <gpocentek> (user side)
[15:16] <TuxCrafter> gpocentek: true
[15:16] <j1mc> that message was sent on june 27, and i don't think they've sent an update since.
[15:16] <gpocentek> i don't know what's the point of having it absolutely
[15:17] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: I don't think we can sit on the fence, I think we need to decide if we're going to target one or the other
[15:17] <gpocentek> cody-somerville: i vote for 4.4, but my opinion doesn't matter htat much
[15:17] <TuxCrafter> i would say target 4.4 the risk on regression is to big
[15:18] <cody-somerville> I'm not inherently opposed to targeting 4.4 but this is the first release after an LTS which is when we should be making our riskiest changes
[15:18] <gpocentek> (i'm talking about the official repos, a ppa for 4.6 could be nice)
[15:18] <TuxCrafter> the advantages of 4.6 are to little compared to the changes of the complete system
[15:20] <cody-somerville> Okay.
[15:21] <j1mc> if there is going to be any argument for including 4.6, the "edginess" of a post-LTS release is one of them, but given that we're intending to make good memory footprint improvements... it also seems like a good chance to have a very stable and workable system for older PC's.
[15:21] <j1mc> putting it in a PPA would always be an option for those who want to use the edgier version
[15:22] <j1mc> s/it/4.6
[15:22]  * cody-somerville nods.
[15:22] <j1mc> if 4.6 really comes around, though... and we have it in a ppa, and it's running well...
[15:22] <j1mc> when would we need to commit to 4.4 or 4.6?
[15:25] <gpocentek> ASAP I guess :)
[15:26] <cody-somerville> Lets go with 4.4 and aim to really deliver a kick ass release
[15:27] <j1mc> that sounds like a good idea.  any thoughts about putting 4.6 in a ppa?
[15:27] <cody-somerville> Naturally
[15:29] <j1mc> :]
[15:30] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, gpocentek: Sound good?
[15:30] <gpocentek> sure, if someone takes the time to do it :)
[15:32] <gpocentek> so what about goffice/gnumeric?
[15:32] <gpocentek> since you're planning to include yelp, i don't see the point of keeping the -gtk build (the deps will be there anyway)
[15:32] <mr_pouit> yes
[15:35] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, aren't they already included?
[15:35] <gpocentek> the deps?
[15:35] <Rev_> j1mc, as i have to leave now, is there a way to read a summary of what have been said here today? i mean, regarding the issue i brought up, is there any way to know if it had been tackled?
[15:36] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, yes. I see three gnome libs.
[15:36] <gpocentek> maybe, so the -gtk build are useless
[15:36] <j1mc> Rev_: we'll post the minutes, yes
[15:37] <cody-somerville> libgnome2-0, libgnomeui-0 , and libgnomevfs2-0 all show as being a member of the xubuntu-task
[15:38] <gpocentek> gnumeric doesn't bring other gnome libs
[15:38] <Rev_> j1mc, good, thanks, see you later
[15:38] <Rev_> bye all
[15:39] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, What functionality is missing in the -gtk variant?
[15:40] <cody-somerville> ie. whats stopping us from pushing the patches upstream?
[15:41] <gpocentek> debian never wanted the gtk build
[15:41] <gpocentek> s/gtk/multibuild/
[15:41] <gpocentek> on it's a big merge
[15:41] <gpocentek> s/on/and/
[15:42] <gpocentek> the gtk variant doesn't use a vfs sytem and the integration with the desktop is not as good
[15:42] <gpocentek> as the gnome variant
[15:44] <cody-somerville> ok
[15:45] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, its your call
[15:45] <gpocentek> i'll drop a mailon ubuntu-dev to be sure than noones need it and i'll reduce the diff then
[15:47] <cody-somerville> sounds good
[15:47] <j1mc> sounds good to me, too.
[15:48] <j1mc> we're going on two hours (almost).  how are people on time?  any other items people would like to cover before wrapping up?
[15:49] <cody-somerville> How about improving performance and the fuse stuff?
[15:49] <j1mc> ok
[15:50] <cody-somerville> I'm going to start looking at session start time here soon using bootchart
[15:52]  * j1mc nods
[15:52] <cody-somerville> I'd like to get people to the desktop as soon as possible
[15:52] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, mr_pouit: Strawman: What do you think of disabling xfce4-session?
[15:52] <gpocentek> ?
[15:53] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, Xfce4 team is thinking of getting rid of xfce4-session due to all the trouble it causes IIRC
[15:53] <cody-somerville> So it might be something to consider disabling it ourselves
[15:54] <gpocentek> did you try already?
[15:54]  * TuxCrafter does not use xfce4-session and removed it
[15:54] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, yes
[15:54] <j1mc> doesn't xfce4-session include the autostarted applications?
[15:55] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: you can use an other system for it
[15:55] <gpocentek> I think so, + gnome and kde startup
[15:55] <j1mc> TuxCrafter: what can you use?
[15:55] <TuxCrafter> i just use a file in me home dir with a list of apps that needs to get started
[15:55] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: the file is checked in the xinitrc file
[15:56] <cody-somerville> The biggest feature loss is that all the apps that were running when you logged out won't automatically start again
[15:56] <TuxCrafter> true
[15:56] <cody-somerville> However, this isn't so bad considering the issues with xfce4-panel and the like not starting
[15:56] <gpocentek> so the idea is to provide regressions to gain 3 seconds on the boot?
[15:57] <TuxCrafter> but that is a loss + benefit
[15:57] <TuxCrafter> because if a broken program restarts its breaks the system again
[15:57] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, no, I'm thinking about the xfce4-panel start issues
[15:57] <gpocentek> cody-somerville: removing xfce4-session mean removing some features AFAICT
[15:57] <TuxCrafter> a fixed starup profile solves a lot of issues
[15:58] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, Yes it does.
[15:58] <j1mc> people will want to add / remove autostarted applications, though, and asking them to create a file in their home dir, and then edit an xinitrc file... doesn't sound too user friendly to me.
[15:58] <gpocentek> yep
[15:58] <cody-somerville> autostarted apps can still happen very easily
[15:58] <TuxCrafter> it also needs some changes for user friendly shutdown and reboot etcetra
[15:58] <mr_pouit> cody-somerville: how ?
[16:00] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, we could have a directory in .config and all the .desktop files get executed at session start
[16:00] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, and we can create a simple GUI to manage them
[16:01] <gpocentek> 'we' being?
[16:01] <cody-somerville> I can do it
[16:02] <gpocentek> what about the session restauration?
[16:02] <cody-somerville> People can install xfce4-session if thats a feature they'd like
[16:03] <cody-somerville> But considering how much trouble we see in #xubuntu regarding sessions, I don't think it is a feature that'll be missed too horribly
[16:03] <TuxCrafter> http://imagebin.ca/view/dcRY36.html An example what is possible with xfce and a fixed startup profile and some fine tuning (btw with the last 8.04 release this is not possible anymore with xubuntu because there are to much startup dependency's.
[16:03] <gpocentek> i see, we fix the bug by removing the feature
[16:03] <gpocentek> that makes sens, i like it
[16:04] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, Upstream is deprecating xfce4-session
[16:04] <cody-somerville> We don't have much choice unless you'd like to maintain xfce4-session
[16:04] <mr_pouit> cody-somerville: but it isn't deprecated yet
[16:04] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, which is why we're having this discussion
[16:04] <TuxCrafter> can we agree in just following upstream?
[16:04] <mr_pouit> we'll just follow upstream so
[16:05] <TuxCrafter> so if upstream xfce does not remove it we also do not remove it
[16:05] <TuxCrafter> and if we think it should be removed we go to upstream and present our case
[16:07] <cody-somerville> I think we should do whats best for the users
[16:08] <cody-somerville> I'll write up a proposal regarding this and send it to the mailing list
[16:08] <cody-somerville> Lets talk about Samba browsing
[16:08] <TuxCrafter> so if its best for our users we present it to upstream because our users are also there users
[16:09] <TuxCrafter> samba browsing == fusesmb??
[16:09] <cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, It isn't required that upstream agree with all of our decisions
[16:09] <cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, I'd like to make it easier to access network shares in Xubuntu
[16:10] <TuxCrafter> make a faq: how to access windows network shares??
[16:11] <cody-somerville> Who has tried that fusesmb hack?
[16:11] <TuxCrafter> i use fuse sshfs
[16:11] <j1mc> cody-somerville: i tried it some time ago.  maybe a year and a half ago
[16:11] <TuxCrafter> and still got loats of bugs
[16:11] <TuxCrafter> and dont now how to debug them
[16:11] <TuxCrafter> s/now/kno/
[16:11] <cody-somerville> j1mc, I just tried it today and it was pretty neat
[16:11] <j1mc> i have a friend in a local lug who uses fuse sshfs
[16:12] <j1mc> cody-somerville: fusesmb?
[16:12] <charlie-tca> I use fuse sshfs, it works well for me
[16:12] <cody-somerville> j1mc, although I couldn't write to share but I dunno if that was fusesmb or how the share's configuration
[16:12]  * j1mc nods
[16:13] <cody-somerville> Might we could do is have fusesmb mount on login configured with their credentials, etc. etc.
[16:14] <cody-somerville> To integrate this, we'll patch Thunar to have an item in the left bar like "File System" or "Trash"
[16:14] <TuxCrafter> I maybe would like to see a by default disabled system for smb with easy to find info how to enable it
[16:14] <cody-somerville> Sure
[16:15] <cody-somerville> It could mount on demand
[16:15] <TuxCrafter> but i would definitely not want to see something that takes up resources in one of the core elements like thunar
[16:15] <cody-somerville> Acknowledged
[16:16] <TuxCrafter> you can of cource patch thunar with an extra help link to a faq website on the xubuntu website with a faq for smb acces!
[16:16] <TuxCrafter> however an uptream solution would be better for this
[16:17] <j1mc> if we can assist users in enabling that functionality w/o hindering the regular performance of thunar, then i think it's ok
[16:17] <cody-somerville> TuxCrafter, Optimally, Upstream would provide us with everything we could ever want, yes.
[16:17] <TuxCrafter> sshfs exist besides thunar this is the way to go i think
[16:18] <j1mc> TuxCrafter: could you rephrase that?  i'm not sure i understood
[16:18] <cody-somerville> My proposal won't have any performance impact on Thunar
[16:18] <TuxCrafter> cody-somerville: nothing comes for free, so upstream will never provide everything you want without making and supporting a case
[16:19] <cody-somerville> Okay, so no body sees any problems with my idea?
[16:20] <j1mc> i am ok with it
[16:22] <j1mc> one final thing, and i don't understand the technical elements of it, but on regular ubuntu (w/gnome) you don't have to enter your gnome-keyring password after you log in to access a prior-used wireless network.
[16:22] <j1mc> any ability to get that into intrepid for xubuntu?
[16:22] <j1mc> it's a very nice feature.
[16:22] <j1mc> i've heard there's a workaround on the forums, but haven't investigated.
[16:23] <j1mc> it's interesting, because that feature is present in ubuntu, and fedora 9, but not opensuse 11
[16:24] <cody-somerville> I can look into it
[16:24] <cody-somerville> but maybe gpocentek or mr_pouit could help with that feature
[16:25] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, I need to get going
[16:25] <gpocentek> don't count on me for this
[16:25] <cody-somerville> gpocentek, on the keyring stuff?
[16:25] <gpocentek> yes
[16:25]  * TuxCrafter also has a question for an upstream solution of gtk-print and gtk-open for thunderbird but dont know if upstream is working on this?
[16:26] <j1mc> i need to get going, too, but we can look into it later.
[16:26] <j1mc> thanks for your time today, everyone.  i'm glad we were able to meet.
[16:26] <TuxCrafter> j1mc: cody-somerville: bye everybody
[16:26] <j1mc> bye TuxCrafter
[16:27]  * cody-somerville waves.
[16:27] <j1mc> next meeting in 3 weeks.  talk to you then, if not sooner.
[16:27] <j1mc> :]
[16:27]  * charlie-tca so long


[01:13] <bdrung> mwhudson: ping
[01:14] <mwhudson> bdrung: hi
[01:14] <bdrung> mwhudson: can you reenable the import of htmlvalidator?
[01:14] <mwhudson> bdrung: sure, got a link for me?
[01:15] <bdrung> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/htmlvalidator/trunk
[01:16] <mwhudson> bdrung: do you have a reason to believe the server will be more reliable now?
[01:16] <mwhudson> bdrung: perfectly happy to just give it a go, though
[01:16]  * mwhudson hits the go switch
[01:17] <bdrung> the sourceforge servers seems to be stable now
[01:18] <mwhudson> cool
[01:18] <bdrung> and they have a new hp design.
[01:20] <bdrung> we should give it a try. if murphys law strikes then we should wait another week
[01:21] <bdrung> mwhudson: thanks
[01:21] <mwhudson> bdrung: np
[01:23] <mwhudson> sigh, i really need to implement something that mails the subscribers to a branch when an import fails
[01:25] <mwhudson> oh wow, the new look for SF is ... different
[01:26] <lifeless> the orange?
[01:44] <bdrung> yes, a import failure mail would be good
[02:32] <Hobbsee> wgrant: they get the impression that launchpad is ubuntu from teh forums, i think.
[02:42] <cody-somerville> Have we stopped getting e-mail on changes we make ourselves?
[07:12] <doctormo> hmm, translations doesn't seem to work, I have a pot file in my bzr trunk branch and the lp translations ignores it. So I have translators offering to help but I end up having to send them to pot file to edit directly..
[07:13] <RAOF> doctormo: You need to import the pot file into Launchpad.  It doesn't (yet) pick up translation templates from bzr trees.
[07:14] <RAOF> Then wait for the template to be accepted, which may take some time.
[13:12] <mdke> can someone remind me how to upgrade branches on Launchpad? I recall it can be done with lftp but can't remember the precise details, and of course I don't want to break anything
[13:19] <persia> mdke: I believe you can upgrade locally and push, although some clients may complain.  I could also be wrong.
[13:23] <mdke> persia: I think you're right, but from memory when I did it last time I had to use lftp to delete the lp branch first. But I wanted to check first
[13:45] <thekorn> hi, anyone from the API team around?
[13:45] <thekorn> are there any plans to update http://people.ubuntu.com/~flacoste/launchpad-api-doc.html
[13:46] <thekorn> or can you please publish the xsl stylesheet you use to create this reference documentation?
[13:48] <leonardr> thekorn, hi
[13:48] <thekorn> leonardr, oh hi!
[13:48] <thekorn> just before you joined the channel I asked a question about the reference documentation
 are there any plans to update http://people.ubuntu.com/~flacoste/launchpad-api-doc.html
 or can you please publish the xsl stylesheet you use to create this reference documentation?
[13:51] <leonardr> thekorn, flacoste is setting or has set it up to update the doctest as part of deployment
[13:51] <leonardr> and i don't see any reason not to publish the xst stylesheet
[13:52] <thekorn> leonardr, maybe it is a good idea to publish the xsl file within the wadllib branch
[13:52] <leonardr> thekorn: that's not a bad idea, though our xsl file has some launchpad-specific assumptions
[14:14] <rick_h_> is there a method in LP to take a bug and remove it from releases it's been targetted for?
[14:14] <rick_h_> I was trying to figure out how to target a bug at a milestone and put it on a release, but now can't seem to figure out how to remove the release/tie in
[14:14] <Hobbsee> you can't.
[14:14] <Hobbsee> afaik.
[14:14] <Hobbsee> you just have to mark it as invalid.
[14:14] <Hobbsee> and ignore the bug mail.
[14:14] <rick_h_> k
[14:26] <thekorn> leonardr, ok, thanks for your information, it would be cool if you could update the reference documentation or publish the stylesheet
[14:26] <thekorn> because an outdated api-doc is not helpfull
[14:27] <leonardr> thekorn, it's likely that we have code to publish new documentation but it hasn't landed because we were doing a launchpad release last week and the queue was frozen
[14:27] <thekorn> btw, the Introspection feature is great, I really like it
[14:27] <leonardr> cool
[14:28] <thekorn> maybe you can also wrapp the content of the wadl:doc node to __doc__ of a method
[14:29] <thekorn> so people can run help(launchpad.bugs.createBug)
[14:31] <leonardr> thekorn: yeah, that's on my list
[14:31] <thekorn> cool
[15:50] <ignas> mwhudson: hi
[15:53] <swe3tdave> is there a launchpad admin i can talk to?
[15:56] <swe3tdave> i need to modify a release version number
[17:21] <Peng_> Why does Launchpad keep two copies of every branch?
[17:21] <persia> Peng: Are you sure it's not just several URLs to the same branch?
[17:23] <Peng_> persia: I've heard that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ uses a copy of bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/'s data.
[17:23] <persia> Peng: No idea, but I suspect that if it's a copy, it's only for performance reasons.  It's fairly likely that the same resources are being accessed by two different URLs.
[17:24] <persia> It's certainly the same data, whichever protocol one uses to access it, and it tends to get updated together.
[17:26] <thumper> Peng_: LP only has two copies of hosted branches
[17:26] <thumper> Peng_: there is only one copy of a mirrored branch
[17:26] <thumper> Peng_: it has to do with trusted vs. untrusted areas
[17:26] <thumper> Peng_: in that sftp can write stuff that isn't actually a branch
[17:27] <Peng_> So I could sftp in and put arbitrary things on LP? Cool. :D
[17:27] <thumper> Peng_: not for anyone to access :)
[17:27] <thumper> Peng_: as only people with write access to a branch gets stuff from the "push" area
[17:27] <Peng_> Hmm, if someone wanted to do that, he could actually use a team branch..
[17:28] <thumper> Peng_: everyone else gets the publc (mirrored) area
[17:28] <Peng_> So the read-only copy is partially made to verify the data is valid?
[17:28] <thumper> yes
[17:28] <Peng_> OK. :)
[17:28] <thumper> to be honest, if you want to share arbitrary files...
[17:28] <thumper> just put them in a branch :)
[17:32] <Peng_> ...Err. Right.
[17:50] <radix> I just noticed bzr 1.6 final is out, does that mean stacked branches work on launchpad now?
[17:51] <Ursinha> mwhudson, ^
[18:05] <soren> Can someone explain what I need to do to bug 251480 to get it listed on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvm?
[18:07] <thekorn> soren, the ubuntu task is 'fix released', so not open
[18:08] <soren> thekorn: Except the hardy task, which is "confirmed".
[18:08] <soren> I can guess why it doesn't show up. that's why I asked what I need to change to make it show up :)
[18:08] <thekorn> this task is shown in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/kvm
[18:09] <soren> That's not good enough.
[18:09] <thekorn> ...one of the strange things in launchpad
[18:09] <soren> Well, i guess I can add an intrepid task, set that to fix released, and set the "general" state to "Confirmed".
[18:57] <radix> http://rafb.net/p/5EaYcN13.html
[18:57] <radix> 'stacked-source' is a regular branch, 'SB2' is a branch stacked on it
[18:57] <radix> the strange thing is that I would not expect an *authentication* error here
[18:57] <radix> I mean, doesn't authentication happen before anything else that might be affected by whether the branch is stacked?
[19:00] <radix> (I created SB2 by "branch --stacked lp:~radix/+junk/stacked-source SB2; cd SB2; hackhackhack; bzr push --stacked lp:~radix/+junk/SB2")
[19:07] <radix> oh, hmm, I'm still on rc6
[19:07] <radix> err, rc5
[19:08] <radix> I guess the .deb package of 1.6 final isn't out yet :)
[19:20] <soren> mwhudson: qemu's upstream VCS has changed. How do I tell vcs-import this?
[19:54] <Laney> I can't see how to add tags to a bug.   As you can imagine, the import system is quite complicated.
[19:56] <rockstar> soren, you can still create import branches from a project.
[19:56] <soren> rockstar: Ok... I'm looking at the project page now. What to do?
[19:57] <soren> Oh, I see it, I think.
[19:57] <rockstar> soren, go to register a branch.
[19:57] <soren> rockstar: Yes, I see it now. I can take it from here. Thanks.
[19:58] <rockstar> soren, great!  If you need anything else, I'm around.  mwhudson won't even wake up for another two hours or so.
[19:58] <soren> rockstar: YEah, I know.
[19:58] <rockstar> :)
[19:58]  * soren . o O { Slacker }
[19:58] <soren> :)
[19:59] <soren> rockstar: Can you review new code imports?
[19:59] <rockstar> soren, I can.
[19:59] <LarstiQ> rockstar: yeah, I'm aware of that, and I see the difficulties in trying to graft two possibly different histories onto eachother.
[19:59] <soren> rockstar: Please to apply your special love to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/qemu/svntrunk :)
[20:00] <rockstar> soren, approved
[20:00] <soren> rockstar: Thanks very much :)
[20:00] <rockstar> soren, you are very welcome.
[20:04] <Laney> ...is tagging bugs a blessed task?
[20:16] <mdke> Rinchen: around?
[22:29] <muntyan> hey. i want to have my project in launchpad (hoping to get translations), but it is already registered there: https://launchpad.net/medit
[22:29] <muntyan> can i get hold of it somehow?
[22:29] <muntyan> become a maintainer or something
[22:32] <muntyan> emgent, vorian: ping. you are listed at https://launchpad.net/~motu, could you help me?
[22:32] <mdke> muntyan: I'm sure you can, you should ask a question here - https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[22:32] <mdke> then one of the Launchpad admins will sort it out for you
[22:33] <muntyan> ok, thanks


[05:59] <philipballew> bkerensa, around?
[08:09] <bkerensa> tgm4883: ping
[16:10] <tgm4883> bkerensa, pong