[12:18] <poningru> ogra: ping
[12:19] <ryanakca> what do I add to debian/rules to apply patches?
[12:19] <Laser_away> ryanakca: are you using dpatch?
[12:20] <poningru> Laser_away: is the school already over/
[12:20] <poningru> ?
[12:20] <Laser_away> yeah
[12:20] <poningru> :(
[12:20] <poningru> ajmitch: ping
[12:20] <Laser_away> you were at the first one weren't you?
[12:20] <poningru> yeah
[12:20] <ryanakca> Laser_away: ummm... dunno... I downloaded the kde pot patch thingy... and I put it in debian/patches/ ... which is what I'm supposed to do (from what I can tell of wiki/MOTU/School/PatchingSources)
[12:21] <Laser_away> yeah, are you using CDBS?
[12:21] <Laser_away> I'm guessing for KDE you are
[12:21] <ryanakca> debhelper
[12:21] <Laser_away> only debhelper?
[12:21] <gnube> Laser_away, Is that you LaserJock? Are you still here? You are dedicated!
[12:21] <ryanakca> Laser_away: yes...
[12:21] <Laser_away> gnube: I spend a lot of time here ;-)
[12:22] <gnube> Cool.
[12:22] <gnube> Maybe that is one of the reasons Ubuntu is such a great distro
[12:22] <gnube> Dedication.
[12:22] <gnube> Debian people can be a little cranky, despite their genius.
[12:22] <LaserJock> yes, and especially dedication by the community at large
[12:22] <gnube> LaserJock, Absolutely, but you are a member of that community.
[12:23] <LaserJock> sure, and so are you ;-)
[12:23] <LaserJock> so I expect you to be here 12hrs a day :-)
[12:23] <LaserJock> just kidding
[12:23] <ryanakca> lol
[12:23] <gnube> Some members do more than others, hopefully one day I can contribute significantly as well.
[12:23] <gnube> I do my part, but not quite like you.
[12:24] <ryanakca> LaserJock: learn cdbs?
[12:24] <gnube> It is really important because packaging is kind of a black art.
[12:24] <LaserJock> well, I think the Ubuntu philosophy is "everybody contribute what you can, and together we can move mountains" ;-)
[12:24] <tseng> LaserJock++
[12:24] <gnube> Sorry to be so off-topic everyone, I'll shutup now.
[12:24] <LaserJock> gnube: no problemo
[12:24] <gnube> :)
[12:24] <LaserJock> we like discussing how great we are ;-)
[12:24] <tseng> unless slomo comes along and contributes for you
[12:24] <tseng> thats cool too
[12:24] <LaserJock> true
[12:25] <ryanakca> Kubuntu is the bestest
[12:25] <LaserJock> ryanakca: you could
[12:25] <gnube> who is slomo?
[12:25] <Amaranth> I can't package either, don't feel bad. :)
[12:25] <tseng> he is #1
[12:25] <ryanakca> gnube: no clue
[12:25] <Amaranth> I just make things. ;)
[12:25] <LaserJock> slomo is a real MOTU
[12:25] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:25] <ryanakca> I can... kindof... package
[12:25] <LaserJock> everybody has to start somewhere
[12:25] <ryanakca> nixternal__: hey... can I delegate you some more tasks?
[12:26] <ryanakca> lol
[12:26] <Amaranth> i can package python apps using distutils and simple things using gnome-autogen
[12:26] <LaserJock> I'm sure there was a time (unimaginable as it seems) when elmo first read the GPL
[12:26] <ryanakca> packaging python = hard
[12:26] <Amaranth> ryanakca: no it's not :)
[12:26] <tseng> python is one of the easier things to do
[12:26] <Amaranth> well, the new stuff is hard
[12:26] <ryanakca> mind pointing me to a wiki/HOWTO
[12:26] <ryanakca> I've got some python apps I want to package :)
[12:26] <Amaranth> but it's just been made as easy as replacing dh_python with dh_pycentral and going
[12:27] <ryanakca> LaserJock: elmo = slomo?
[12:27] <LaserJock> ryanakca: you don't have to use CDBS but many KDE apps use it
[12:27] <LaserJock> ryanakca: no
[12:27] <nixternal__> having issues right now, one sec ;)
[12:27] <tseng> ryanakca: ... elmo = elmo
[12:27] <tseng> ftp-master
[12:27] <Amaranth> ryanakca: cdbs + distutils used to mean a 1 line rules file, 2 lines if you needed to do patching
[12:27] <LaserJock> elmo = James Troup, master of Debian and Ubuntu
[12:27] <tseng> LaserJock: not so much of ubuntu
[12:27] <tseng> he is a slowly sysadmin these days
[12:27] <Amaranth> now you need a bunch of crap
[12:27] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:27] <gnube> Once one has a package, as I do, for a tool called Xnee, how does one upload it to Ubuntu?
[12:28] <gnomefreak> is packaging harder in general than merges?
[12:28] <tseng> wrote himself out of the job :)
[12:28] <ryanakca> just got confused when you were talking about slomo and then talking about elmo
[12:28] <gnube> My debian sponsor kind of stinks
[12:28] <tseng> via launchpad
[12:28] <LaserJock> hehe
[12:28] <LaserJock> I suppose
[12:28] <ryanakca> gnube: REVU
[12:28] <gnube> And becoming a DD takes a long time
[12:28] <gnube> REVU eh?
[12:28] <gnube> hmm . . .
[12:28] <gnube> must read
[12:28] <ryanakca> gnube: and then bug laserjock or some other motu untill they go nuts and decide to revue your revu package
[12:29] <ryanakca> :)
[12:29] <gnube> ryanakca, Heh, you just told me the secret. ;)
[12:29] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[12:29] <gnube> w00t.
[12:29] <gnube> Thanks LaserJock
[12:30] <Amaranth> ryanakca: review :)
[12:30] <gnube> why are debian people so mad at Ubuntu? They say that Ubuntu does not give back, but that does not seem like a legitimate criticism since so much can just be taken from Ubuntu.
[12:31] <ryanakca> Amaranth: review :)
[12:31] <tseng> debian has 1000 developers
[12:31] <LaserJock> most Debian people aren't mad
[12:31] <tseng> you cant generalize about their opinions
[12:31] <LaserJock> there are a few very vocal people who dislike Ubuntu
[12:31] <LaserJock> but I've had lots of good experiences with Debian
[12:31] <ryanakca> Some debian people help out in *buntu, and vice versa
[12:31] <ryanakca> so have I
[12:31] <gnube> LaserJock, Have you? That is good to hear.
[12:31] <LaserJock> you kinda have to know who to go to though
[12:32] <tseng> slomo, ajmitch and I are on the Debian Mono team
[12:32] <LaserJock> debian-mentors is a good group
[12:32] <tseng> i wrote the first draft of the debian policy
[12:32] <gnube> I have heard lots of negative stuff, but I suppose I should not blame every DD for that.
[12:32] <gnube> tseng, Wha?
[12:32] <tseng> wha?
[12:32] <ryanakca> I used Debian for the first 3 months of my linux life... setting up wacom is(or was) a hassle... because you had to compile your own kernel... but other than that... awesome distro
[12:32] <gnube> tseng, For real? You wrote debian policy? Wow, cool.
[12:33] <tseng> gnube: haha for real
[12:33] <tseng> its a draft
[12:33] <gnube> ryanakca, I agree, but I have a Dell and debian and Dell are not freinds.
[12:33] <tseng> and other people have added stuff to it
[12:33] <gnube> draft or not, cool.
[12:33] <gnube> co-author or not, cool.
[12:33] <tseng> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
[12:33] <ryanakca> that's sweet
[12:33] <tseng> ryanakca: haha
[12:33] <tseng> seb128 is on the debian gnome team
[12:33] <gnube> But, you know what I am going to say next . . . Mono is not Free Software!
[12:34] <gnube> It is based on Microsoft's C#
[12:34] <tseng> I'll try not to hurt you
[12:34] <gnube> I know.
[12:34] <ryanakca> seb128... he's the head of ubuntu-l10n-fr... right?
[12:34] <tseng> or are you really lacking clue?
[12:34] <gnube> I expect it.
[12:34] <gnube> I am wearing flame retardent underwear.
[12:34] <tseng> it isnt "microsoft's C#"
[12:34] <tseng> its an open standard
[12:34] <Toadstool> ryanakca: he used to be
[12:34] <tseng> including Intel, HP
[12:34] <ryanakca> used to?
[12:34] <ryanakca> hmmm
[12:34] <gnube> tseng, Still, they can change that "standard".
[12:35] <tseng> they can do whatever they want
[12:35] <tseng> and we can implement the standard
[12:35] <tseng> its standardized by internation standards bodies, not by MS
[12:35] <ryanakca> Toadstool: who is it now? Claude Paroz?
[12:35] <Toadstool> ryanakca: yeah, too much work with gnome, etc.
[12:35] <tseng> if you really don't know this you should keep your opinion to yourself next time
[12:35] <tseng> no offence
[12:35] <gnube> tseng, But they have some serious influence in those bodies.
[12:35] <tseng> sure, they originated the idea
[12:36] <Toadstool> ryanakca: hmm, it must be Claude indeed
[12:36] <ryanakca> Toadstool: <nocomment>gnome</nocomment>
[12:36] <Toadstool> heh
[12:36] <gnube> No offence taken, I speak a lot with Georg Greve, rms, et. al, so I have a bit of knowledge about this.
[12:36] <tseng> I am not sure what they are going to do maliciously to an open standard of ISO and EMCA
[12:36] <gnomefreak> Toadstool: ty for helping with the gnomebaker sync request
[12:36] <tseng> "we standardize on doing destructive things on linux"
[12:37] <gnomefreak> Toadstool: if it wasnt you forget i said anything
[12:37] <gnube> tseng, They mangled JAVA
[12:37] <tseng> Java isnt a standard
[12:37] <Toadstool> gnomefreak: no problem ;)
[12:37] <tseng> and microsoft didnt claim to implement something compatible
[12:37] <gnube> tseng, Lets not stray to far into semantics here.
[12:37] <tseng> I'm tiring of this
[12:37] <gnube> ok, fine.
[12:38] <tseng> if you wanted to go after WinForms you might have a leg to stand on
[12:38] <tseng> RMS FUD against the CLR is unwarranted by all accounts
[12:38] <gnube> Well, maybe you are not _so_ tired.
[12:39] <tseng> this is the same guy with nothing better to do but show up at a talk by ati employees and protest
[12:39] <gnube> You mean rms?
[12:39] <tseng> yes.
[12:39] <gnube> He has worked tirelessly for freedom. He is not the only voice, but he is an important voice, and often he is right.
[12:40] <LaserJock> anyway...
[12:40] <gnube> Free Software is really, really important. More important than Fspot or Beagle.
[12:40] <gnube> I'll stop now, perhaps this is not the correct forum.
[12:40] <LaserJock> it's a bit OT
[12:40] <gnube> right. :)
[12:41] <LaserJock> and I doubt any minds are going to be changed today ;-)
[12:41] <gnube> Fair enough, thanks again LaserJock, see you soon!
[12:41] <LaserJock> if I had a mind it might work
[12:41] <gnube> Must go . . .
[12:41] <LaserJock> cya gnube
[12:42] <LaserJock> only 10?
[12:42] <LaserJock> ;-)
[12:43] <LaserJock> well, I'm I don't know the whole history of FLOSS etc.
[12:43] <tseng> its my opinion that rms was a leader 20 years ago and expects top billing to this day
[12:43] <tseng> as an example
[12:44] <LaserJock> but I think 90% of users would take Fspot and Beagle any day
[12:44] <LaserJock> I don't know the details
[12:44] <tseng> one of his lackies just suggested on the gnome-docs list that every instance of Linux be changed "to GNU/Linux or just GNU"
[12:44] <LaserJock> but it seems like Mono is open source, that's good enough for me
[12:44] <LaserJock> of course
[12:44] <tseng> i need to find the strings in question
[12:45] <tseng> it pinpoints the idiocy
[12:45] <LaserJock> I've gotten that a few times
[12:45] <tseng> these are really obscure
[12:45] <LaserJock> "Ubuntu" has to be "Ubuntu GNU/Linux"
[12:45] <tseng> yes, well
[12:45] <tseng> that was the kind of thing people see
[12:45] <LaserJock> which I still don't get but oh well
[12:45] <tseng> imo we might as well call it GNOME/Linux
[12:46] <tseng> if you went by lines of code
[12:46] <imbrandon> KDE/Linux <evil grin>
[12:47] <imbrandon> tseng: just teasin a bit, yea i see your point and totaly agree
[12:47] <LaserJock> Kubuntu KDE/Linux
[12:47] <tseng> GNOME/KDE/MOZILLA/Linux
[12:47] <imbrandon> and actualy it should be Linux/GNU since GNU are the base tools ( in some caes ) and linux is the kernel ;)
[12:47] <tseng> whatever.
[12:47] <LaserJock> anyway, I've seen both Linus and RMS say some pretty dumb things
[12:48] <LaserJock> but I respect what they've done
[12:48] <LaserJock> ... and life goes on
[12:48] <imbrandon> LaserJock: exactly
[12:49] <tseng> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2006-July/msg00204.html
[12:49] <tseng> these are the strings proposed for change
[12:49] <tseng> enjoy.
[12:51] <LaserJock> "There is an ongoing confusion for years, which is harmful for the Free
[12:51] <LaserJock> Software Movement.."
[12:51] <tseng> holy crap!
[12:51] <LaserJock> ???
[12:51] <tseng> there are 16 tracebacks to my last blog
[12:52] <tseng> LaserJock: i am definately confused
[12:52] <tseng> spam tracebacks
[12:52] <tseng> ..to sex sites, brilliant
[12:53] <LaserJock> tseng: can you explain this at all?
[12:53] <LaserJock> I want to write about the reasons
[12:53] <LaserJock> why the GNOME Project was started, and about the danger of "Open
[12:53] <LaserJock> Source", which constantly threatens to bury the Free Software ideals
[12:53] <LaserJock> and turn them into something completely different and insignificiant.
[12:54] <LaserJock> open source is a threat to free software?
[12:54] <tseng> so
[12:54] <tseng> open source refers to being able to download the source code, generically
[12:54] <tseng> Free Software is more specific
[12:54] <tseng> guaranteing certain freedoms
[12:54] <LaserJock> ah, hmm
[12:55] <tseng> generally standardized by OSL or DFSG
[12:55] <tseng> both written by the same guy, actually
[12:56] <tseng> very roughly the right to modify and distribute without certain other restrictions
[12:57] <tseng> gpl has restrictions on this, but its still free.. where it gets complicated
[12:57] <LaserJock> right, becuase I could say "you can download the source code, but you can't modify it"?
[12:57] <tseng> yes, obviously non-free
[12:57] <LaserJock> but is that open source?
[12:57] <crimsun> yes
[12:57] <LaserJock> k
[12:57] <tseng> because you got the source code
[12:57] <tseng> its "open"
[12:58] <tseng> open source doesnt guarantee anything
[12:58] <crimsun> now consider this: "you can download the source code and modify it, but you can't distribute your modified source code"
[12:58] <tseng> http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
[12:58] <crimsun> e.g., djbdns
[12:58] <tseng> this is what you should cite
[12:58] <tseng> http://www.opensource.org/
[12:58] <tseng> and this
[12:58] <crimsun> you obviously don't want either example we just talked about :)
[12:59] <tseng> yeah djb is a nut
[12:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I mean I've read the DFSG, I just didn't get why you would would have non-free open source
[01:01] <tseng> because you are a weirdo
[01:01] <tseng> and don't like the terms of the GPL/BSD/etc
[01:01] <LaserJock> hmm, well http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php seem like more than, "you can get the code"
[01:02] <tseng> well, hello confusion
[01:02] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:02] <tseng> opensource.org defines something close to DFSG
[01:02] <LaserJock> yeah, it says at the bottom
[01:03] <tseng> most of the stuff should probably be called Free
[01:03] <LaserJock> that it is DFSG-(debian specific stuff)
[01:03] <tseng> as people identify that with something specific
[01:03] <tseng> open source is not always specific
[01:03] <tseng> DJB-ware could be "open" source
[01:03] <LaserJock> I just avoid saying "free software" because people think it's just $0 cost
[01:03] <tseng> crimsun can correct me if im at all confusing
[01:03] <tseng> Free with a capital f
[01:04] <tseng> Libre also
[01:04] <LaserJock> yeah, I suppose that's true
[01:04] <LaserJock> I like FLOSS
[01:04] <LaserJock> it keeps my teeth clean and everything ;-)
[01:04] <LaserJock> sorry, bad joke
[01:04] <tseng> no, you don't
[01:05] <tseng> Jump to: navigation, search
[01:05] <tseng> Free/Libre/Open-Source Software, or FLOSS, is an alternative term for free software. It is used by those who wish to be inclusive or who do not want to take a side on whether "free software" or "open-source software" is a better term, although neither side has shown much enthusiasm for the term "FLOSS".
[01:05] <LaserJock> well, I like FLOSS except I have to explain it all
[01:06] <tseng> sorry if im not being helpful, its a pretty fine line most of the time
[01:06] <LaserJock> because I really couldn't care less what specifc term they use
[01:06] <tseng> right
[01:06] <LaserJock> I want to be able to tell my family what it "means"
[01:06] <tseng> but you want DFSG free
[01:06] <tseng> whatever they call it
[01:06] <LaserJock> yes, I think so
[01:06] <tseng> you just don't froth at the mouth over it
[01:06] <LaserJock> exactly
[01:07] <tseng> we're on the same page
[01:07] <tseng> frothing at the mouth includes demanding that DFSG is called "Free" and not "Open"
[01:08] <tseng> Critics have said that the term "open source" fosters an ambiguity of a different kind, in that it confuses the mere availability of the source with the freedom to use, modify, and redistribute it.
[01:08] <tseng> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
[01:08] <tseng> is the crux of it
[01:09] <tseng> as we said before somethings called Open don't meet the standard for Free
[01:09] <tseng> sometimes, the author just isn't interested in the word debate
[01:09] <LaserJock> I suppose, to me "open source" should be that DFSG goodness that is on http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
[01:10] <tseng> that would be nice
[01:10] <LaserJock> but again, I'm not particular what you call it
[01:10] <LaserJock> anyway, I get what's going on now, thanks
[01:10] <tseng> as for GNOME, its always been Free
[01:11] <tseng> but I talk to miguel every day and he doesn't often get frothy-mouthed
[01:11] <LaserJock> so if I get some cool stuff from http://www.cafepress.com/opensourcestuff am I likely to get impaled?
[01:11] <tseng> only if you walk by a serious RMS fanboy
[01:12] <tseng> do you read everyone loves eric raymond
[01:12] <tseng> including bruce perens, author of dfsg
[01:12] <tseng> vs linux, rms
[01:12] <tseng> even sabdfl
[01:14] <tseng> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/terrorismistic
[01:14] <tseng> hello, Hobbsee
[01:14] <LaserJock> haha
[01:14] <Hobbsee> hi tseng
[01:14] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[01:15] <tseng> LaserJock: (eric raymond threatened bruce's life)
[01:17] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee
[01:17] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[01:17] <crimsun> TheMuso: (looking at your merges)
[01:18] <LaserJock> tseng: hehe, http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/slashdotted
[01:18] <TheMuso> crimsun: I think there is only one is there not?
[01:18] <tseng> LaserJock: this is a classic strip
[01:18] <tseng> you need the sabdfl
[01:18] <crimsun> TheMuso: it's quite possible; I have been hacking up alsa this afternoon and haven't gotten a chance to check all the e-mails yet
[01:19] <tseng> LaserJock: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad
[01:19] <LaserJock> tseng: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad
[01:19] <tseng> yes!
[01:19] <LaserJock> heh
[01:19] <tseng> love it
[01:19] <TheMuso> crimsun: I'd say so, as my others have been done as far as I am aware.
[01:19] <tseng> LaserJock: this site is funny because its all true
[01:19] <TheMuso> THe only one outstanding is spiralsynthmodular afaik
[01:19] <crimsun> ok
[01:20] <LaserJock> tseng: ok, I gotta go to a BBQ, thanks for the relaxation there ;-)
[01:20] <tseng> LaserJock: have a nice time
[01:20] <crimsun> wow um.
[01:21] <crimsun> did I just break ff in edgy, or is anyone else enable to use https://  ?
[01:21] <crimsun> (the 2.0 beta)
[01:21] <tseng> *tries*
[01:21] <crimsun> unable, not enable
[01:21] <tseng> i can use https to gmail
[01:22] <tseng> and my own web server
[01:22] <tseng> crimsun: i do wish evolution would not crash on start
[01:23] <crimsun> hmm, I must have broken it for that session; LP works fine now.
[01:23] <crimsun> thanks, tseng
[01:23] <tseng> np
[01:34] <Hobbsee> can someone feeling brave do the merge of libnjb?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> looks like it'd be useful to have as a dep of amarok.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> s/dep/build dep, etc/
[01:36] <crimsun> in about 25 mins, sure
[01:37] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: when you do merges/sync requests, can you chuck the package in the subject of the bug too?  it's really annoying to see all these merge requests, but not what belongs to what :P
[01:38] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: No problem.
[01:38] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i think i'm guilty of the same thing, actually
[01:38] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: We all live and learn.
[01:38] <Hobbsee> true
[01:39] <TheMuso> Things like this I tend to take on board, and just do them next time.
[01:39] <TheMuso> I'm kinda like that.
[01:40] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: that's cool :)
[01:41] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it's not a problem, it's just something i noticed
[01:41] <TheMuso> I know that.
[01:41] <TheMuso> I was assuming one could look at the bug, and see the package name. :)
[01:43] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: that is true
[01:43] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: but i've been recovering from my errors, not uploading things
[01:44] <TheMuso> hehe
[02:14] <crimsun> Hobbsee: what's the issue with libnjb?
[02:15] <crimsun> it seems a fairly straightforward merge if you wanted to do that
[02:15] <crimsun> it's even syncable
[02:15] <Hobbsee> crimsun: no particular issue, looks like we'll need it for amarok.  didnt really know what to change, eyeballing it :P
[02:15] <Hobbsee> ah nice
[02:16] <crimsun> it can go either way, really
[02:18] <crimsun> I presume you want to keep the HAL FDI file, which means it'll be a merge
[02:19] <crimsun> I'll go ahead and merge it if you haven't already filed the sync req
[02:19] <Hobbsee> crimsun: i've done nothing with it
[02:19] <ajmitch> hi
[02:19] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks heaps
[02:20] <ryanakca> is it acceptable to put "Suggests: kubuntu-desktop" for kde apps?
[02:20] <crimsun> ...I wouldn't.
[02:20] <ryanakca> kk
[02:20] <ryanakca> then I wont :)
[02:23] <ryanakca> and  "kdelibs4-dev, libqt3-mt-dev" go into build-depends?
[02:23] <ryanakca> or is it "Depends"... (those two keep on confusing me)...
[02:24] <azeem> Depends is for stuff you would need at run-time, Build-Depends is for stuff you need during package build
[02:24] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: they go in the build-deps
[02:25] <ryanakca> kk
[02:26] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: your love for the evil cdbs is contagious... I'm learning/kind of relearning packaging :)
[02:26] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[02:26] <Hobbsee> cdbs isnt evil :)
[02:26] <Hobbsee> cdbs is very nice :)
[02:26] <ryanakca> saves room in debian/rules
[02:26] <Hobbsee> exactly
[02:26] <Hobbsee> and incredibly useful for global fixes.
[02:27] <ryanakca> how do you build a source package? I'm trying to figure out that part... i've got everything done (let's say)... untill that part
[02:28] <Hobbsee> debuild -S -sa -rfakeroot
[02:28] <ryanakca> still debuild?
[02:29] <ajmitch> yes, use debuild
[02:30] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: except with -rfakeroot now? I always ran "debuild -S -sa && sudo pubuilder update && sudo pbuilder build ../<packagename>-<version>.dsc"
[02:30] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:31] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[02:31] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca
[02:34] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: that works too
[02:34] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: whats the difference?
[02:35] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[02:35] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: is -rfakeroot better?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: as to building it with debuild -sa -S or with pbuilder?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> ah.  it builds it as root, even though you arent actually root.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> pbuilder is the better way to do it
[02:35] <ryanakca> :)
[02:36] <Hobbsee> no, it's not that kind of idea
[02:36] <Hobbsee> more that it's just pretending to be root, and building.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> iirc.
[02:37] <ryanakca> ah, kk
[02:37] <ryanakca> morning??? it's 8:35PM!
[02:37] <neutrinomass> ryanakca: It just tells debuilder to ignore the fact that you are not root , from what I know. This is so that it can pass the "are you root?" test that fails when you try to apt-get source -b <package> without being root ...
[02:37] <ryanakca> where are you? India/Asia/Australia?
[02:37] <crimsun> .au.
[02:37] <ryanakca> ah
[02:38] <ryanakca> oh yeah... Sydney?
[02:38] <Hobbsee> yeah
[02:38] <Hobbsee> sydney
[02:38] <Hobbsee> it's okay
[02:38] <ajmitch> so far behind
[02:38] <crimsun> ryanakca: (she has this thing called an LP page ;)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: you mean there is a topic?  *g*
[02:39] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:39] <Hobbsee> it's got pretty icons on it :)
[02:39] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: ack'd eric
[02:39] <ryanakca> crimsun: <stupid>LP page</stupid>
[02:39] <ryanakca> lol
[02:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:40] <ryanakca> pretty icons???
[02:40] <ryanakca> where???
[02:41] <Hobbsee> launchpad.net/people/hobbsee
[02:41] <ryanakca> oooh.. the fishy? :D
[02:41] <ryanakca> yes... I'm there... just trying to find them :)
[02:41] <Hobbsee> yeah :)
[02:42] <tseng> some day, Hobbsee will come into the light
[02:42] <ryanakca> actually no... all that technical talk
[02:42] <Hobbsee> haha
[02:42] <tseng> and get a little blue foot
[02:42] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: you wouldnt get into the council :P
[02:43] <Hobbsee> tseng: eek no!
[02:43] <ryanakca> tseng: little blue foot... what's she turning into? a smurf or whatever you anglophones call them?
[02:43] <tseng> haha anglophone

[02:43] <tseng> I am American
[02:43] <Hobbsee> tseng: little blue foot is gnome dev, or what?  it's not the CC, which is the kubuntu council equivalent.
[02:43] <tseng> anglo is inferior, clearly
[02:43] <ryanakca> and you speak english... that makes you an anglophone :)
[02:44] <ryanakca> french speakers, like me, are francophones :)
[02:44] <tseng> ryanakca: I do, alot of this country is questionable on that
[02:44] <tseng> Hobbsee: its nothing, in launchpad.. its the gnome logo
[02:44] <crimsun> in my own defense I speak IRC.
[02:44] <tseng> nothing that I know of
[02:44] <Hobbsee> tseng: ahhhh...gotcha.  thought it might be that
[02:44] <bddebian> crimsun: :-)
[02:45] <ryanakca> crimsun: ircophone :)
[02:47] <neutrinomass> I'm trying a package with upstream tarball named schur-6.01_20060810.tar.gz and I'm getting some dh_make problems - is it ok if it is changed to schur-6.01.tar.gz ?
[02:48] <crimsun> no
[02:48] <crimsun> that would be misleading
[02:49] <crimsun> what vcs does it use?
[02:50] <gnomefreak> ty Hobbsee :)
[02:50] <crimsun> many people use name_version.vcs.isodate.orig.tar.gz
[02:50] <crimsun> for instance, xserver-xgl_7.0.0.git.20060725.orig.tar.gz
[02:50] <neutrinomass> Not sure... none I think
[02:50] <neutrinomass> the 20060810 is the release date
[02:51] <neutrinomass> So it's only a problem if they decide to release another 6.01
[02:51] <ajmitch> it's also common to use x.y.z~date
[02:51] <ajmitch> where x.y.z is the next version
[02:52] <bddebian> If a source package has two tarballs (one for the data) but the data tarball doesn't have a license file, is it safe to assume it's the same license as the application?
[02:52] <crimsun> no.
[02:53] <bddebian> So what do I do?  Do I have to contact upstream?
[02:53] <crimsun> yes, at least for verification if not also to get upstream to slap the licenses in the data tarball
[02:54] <bddebian> Damnit, I don't know why I try to do anything..
[02:54] <bddebian> Thx crimsun
[02:54] <crimsun> np
[03:07] <neutrinomass> When patching a patch in debian/patches, you just edit the patch straight away, right ?
[03:09] <bddebian> neutrinomass: Depends on the change
[03:09] <bddebian> It can be risky
[03:09] <neutrinomass> Trivial... a category change in the .desktop
[03:10] <neutrinomass> bug #42452
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42452 in firestarter "[Dapper]  Firestarter is in System > Administration menu, even for non admin users" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42452
[03:10] <bddebian> Didn't I fix that in Dapper?
[03:11] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Nope
[03:11] <neutrinomass> bddebian: I'm trying to fix that and bug 569
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 569 in firestarter "Firestarter Help runs Firefox as root" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/569
[03:12] <neutrinomass> bddebian: What you probably did is make it appear under System->Administration as well
[03:13] <bddebian> Hmm
[03:13] <bddebian> Yeah, if the +Categories line is already there you can get away with just hacking that inside the patch file
[03:14] <neutrinomass> ok, thanks
[03:40] <neutrinomass> bddebian: Ha! I think I fixed it.   Why, I'm just a nobody
[04:15] <ajmitch> you're a MOTU, that's what counts
[04:16] <bddebian> I really don't feel confident enough to review :-(
[04:16] <ajmitch> you've done it before
[04:17] <ajmitch> there are plenty of comments you could add
[04:17] <ajmitch> or just checking packages to see if they're in edgy or debian already
[04:19] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i dotn feel confident enough to review either.
[04:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: I notice a LOT of what is up there right now is already in so I don't know if they are patches or what
[04:25] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you can do it as well
[04:26] <ajmitch> bddebian: get a list together of packages that you think could be archived, pleae
[04:26] <ajmitch> s/pleae/please/
[04:26] <bddebian> ajmitch: archived?
[04:26] <TheMuso> lsr can be, as the update on revu has already been uploaded.
[04:26] <ajmitch> bddebian: yes, make sure you're not looking in the archive section of the page
[04:26] <ajmitch> it should be changed to show only stuff to review
[04:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i can.  but i'm not confident.
[04:28] <bddebian> ajmitch needs to do a reviewing packages class :-)
[04:28] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: I'm sure I will feel the same way, but something tells me that my assistance will also be needed when I get MOTU.
[04:30] <TheMuso> I think I would be up to it, considering some of the things I have had to do packaging wise lately.
[04:30] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: why not? you've done enough stuff lately
[04:31] <ajmitch> you don't have to advocate, just go through & point out mistakes that you see
[04:31] <Hobbsee> hmm.
[04:32] <ajmitch> treat it like bug triage - you don't have to fix every bug, just follow up on stuff
[04:33] <Hobbsee> true
[04:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i thought you knew me better than that.
[04:34] <bddebian> OK ajmitch, you have successfully guilted me into it even though I'm apparently useless around here
[04:35] <ajmitch> you were confident enough to try for main, but not to review packages?
[04:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: excellent
[04:35] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: so i was just crazy.
[04:35] <ajmitch> hehe
[04:36] <sharms> I am confident in my ability to not package things correctly :)
[04:36] <ajmitch> sharms: as long as you're willing to learn, it's good
[04:37] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's surprising, I thought you had at least 1 or 2
[04:37] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: IMO the hardest part can sometimes be the copyright. Other than that, the rest is easy enough.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: there were a couple that i was going to get in
[04:37] <Hobbsee> one had nasty symlinks all over the place that i never fixed, the other i had trouble with, and eventually got uploaded by someone else
[04:43] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: mainly it's been a case of doing so many other fixes, that i havent really had the time to look at putting something new in.
[04:44] <ajmitch> I figured that was probably the case
[04:44] <ajmitch> whereas the rest of us have been slacking
[04:44] <Hobbsee> and the fact that the more new stuff that goes in, the more has to be bugfixed/synced with debian/etc
[04:44] <ajmitch> or beforehand
[04:44] <Hobbsee> that's the smart idea
[04:44] <ajmitch> and I'd encourage others to do the same via a sponsor
[04:44] <Hobbsee> there's some interesting kde based packages that are goign to be like that, it seems
[04:45] <StevenK> ajmitch: Damn it, now you and I are going to get hit up upon.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:45] <ajmitch> StevenK: yeah, I think I'll hide in other channels for awhile
[04:45] <StevenK> ajmitch: I think I'll join you.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:45] <TheMuso> Hey StevenK
[04:46] <StevenK> Ow
[04:46] <StevenK> Careful where you poke that thing.
[04:46] <StevenK> What, can't you see where you're poking it?
[04:46] <ajmitch> I think I should really get som breakfast
[04:47] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, you should
[04:47] <TheMuso> StevenK: hahahahaha
[04:47] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: just smash StevenK over the head to avoid such problems.
[04:47] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Depends on how hungry you feel.
[04:47] <StevenK> Hey!
[04:47] <TheMuso> I'd probably hit myself.
[04:48] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: smack the blob that appears to be StevenK.  you should be able to find that one.  just dont smack the shorter blob next to him.
[04:48] <TheMuso> Well blobs aren't anything to go by. I'd either end up hitting someone I don't mean to, or myself.
[04:49] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah.  hmm.
[04:49] <bddebian> Hobbsee: But you aren't as "cool" just fixing things, you have upload some crap ;-P
[04:49] <TheMuso> Non-existant?
[04:49] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm not sure if i have to work
[04:49] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[04:55] <bddebian> OK I'm trying to review and I still say I don't know enough :-(
[04:56] <ajmitch> why?
[04:56] <ajmitch> you should have seen enough broken stuff already to spot some common mistakes
[05:05] <bddebian> Common yes but seeing the comments from raphink and daemon make me feel even more like an idiot
[05:06] <imbrandon> moins ajmitch bddebian StevenK Hobbsee and anyone else alive i missed
[05:07] <imbrandon> TheMuso  ;)
[05:07] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
[05:07] <ajmitch> hello imbrandon
[05:07] <ajmitch> bddebian: s/daemon/sistpoty/
[05:10] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[05:11] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[05:11] <bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, sorry
[05:13] <bddebian> w00t, 1 down :-)
[05:13] <ajmitch> good
[05:15] <bddebian> ajmitch: So something like lsr that is in, I can just hit the archive link?
[05:15] <ajmitch> bddebian: if its the same or older than what's in the archive
[05:15] <bddebian> Same
[05:16] <ajmitch> archive it
[05:16] <TheMuso> As I said above.
[05:16] <bddebian> TheMuso: Whoops, sorry missed that
[05:16] <TheMuso> Its fine.
[05:17] <TheMuso> You got it anyway.
[05:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: planfacile is currently lurking in NEW
[05:18] <ajmitch> any updates since then just need 1 MOTU to check, like any sponsored upload
[05:19] <bddebian> OK
[05:19] <bddebian> Hobbsee: What's up with kradio?
[05:20] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it's severely broken, and needs fixing.  i'd axe it, as it hasnt been asked for in a while
[05:21] <bddebian> Hobbsee: I mean it's already in the archive isn't it?
[05:22] <bddebian> Oh, yours is newer
[05:22] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it *is*?  it wasnt when it was last packaged
[05:25] <nixternal> sorry for the floods earlier, as it seems my router was nailed...
[05:26] <Hawkwind> I had someone asking about kradio 3 days ago :(
[05:28] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: ah.  feel free to fix it, etc
[05:29] <Hawkwind> Hah
[05:32] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Should I archive the one on REVU or do you plan another upload? ;-)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i dotn plan to do another one myself, but someone like Hawkwind may
[05:34] <bddebian> Won't that come in differently because of the different keys?
[05:35] <Hobbsee> ah, yeah
[05:35] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i was more meaning if they wanted to grab my source
[05:35] <Hobbsee> actually, no it doesnt
[05:36] <bddebian> Oh, aye, good point
[05:36] <bddebian> StevenK: With what?
[05:36] <crimsun> well, a sync from Sid for quodlibet 0.22-2 would be swell.
[05:37] <bddebian> crimsun: ?
[05:37] <crimsun> bddebian: just realised that I never filed one; I'm using pbuilt ones
[05:38] <bddebian> crimsun: Oh :-)
[05:38] <StevenK> bddebian: I'm at my mothers house, and I'm pondering what to do.
[05:39] <bddebian> StevenK: Fix kradio for Hobbsee ;-)
[05:39] <StevenK> Hobbsee?
[05:39] <StevenK> Hobbsee: 'Splain yourself.
[05:39] <Hobbsee> hmmm?
[05:40] <Hobbsee> it's being evil, so i'm being evil against it.
[05:42] <bddebian> Egads soundkonverter is a pig
[05:42] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Would you like my help with kradio?
[05:42] <StevenK> Quod 0.22 is out? Damn!
[05:43] <crimsun> StevenK: as is mutagen 1.6 (just noticed)
[05:43] <Hobbsee> StevenK: if you want, i was going to leave it alone.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's not there, it's something i was going to put into new a while ago
[05:44] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Pulling from sid, or what?
[05:45] <bddebian> StevenK: It's on REVU
[05:45] <Hobbsee> it's on revu
[05:46] <bddebian> Should a xen upload even be on REVU?
[05:55] <StevenK> bddebian: Glad to hear that.
[05:55] <ajmitch> bddebian: not anymore
[05:56] <ajmitch> archive it
[05:58] <Hobbsee> StevenK: then axe mine.  mine must be carzy
[05:58] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Yours is a later version. But not much later.
[05:58] <StevenK> 6 days or so.
[05:58] <Hobbsee> right.  axe it.
[05:58] <bddebian> StevenK: So get the latest upstream ;-P
[05:59] <StevenK> That would mean that I care.
[05:59] <StevenK> I don't care that much. :-P
[05:59] <StevenK> Hell, I'm MOTU, and Hobbsee's MOTU, let's get TheMuso to do our bidding.
[05:59] <crimsun> wow, _that_'s teamwork.
[06:00] <TheMuso> DId someone mention my name?
[06:00] <StevenK> crimsun: Indeed.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:00] <StevenK> TheMuso: Nose, grindstone, go.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> hehehehe!
[06:00] <TheMuso> What package?
[06:00] <ajmitch> crimsun: delegation - how any good organisation works
[06:00] <StevenK> All of them, duh.
[06:00] <crimsun> ajmitch: :)
[06:01] <TheMuso> StevenK: I am gradually getting packages done thank you very much.
[06:01] <TheMuso> I just try not to step on other people's toes re merges.
[06:02] <StevenK> That's hard when you can't see them.
[06:02] <TheMuso> har har har har har!!
[06:03] <StevenK> I should stop doing that.
[06:03] <TheMuso> Nah tis fine.
[06:03] <ajmitch> yeah, they're quite painful
[06:03] <bddebian> StevenK: Well if you are a mighty MOTU, get reviewing with me :-)
[06:03] <StevenK> bddebian: Make me. :-P
[06:04] <StevenK> Apparently Debian has offlineimap 4.0.13-0.1, but packages.d.o denies that.
[06:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's all in how you ask
[06:04] <bddebian> *sigh*
[06:04] <ajmitch> StevenK: it has 4.0.14
[06:05] <ajmitch> packages.qa.d.o is updated
[06:06] <TheMuso> bddebian: I recently did a merge for soundconverter. Is the revu version a merge?
[06:07] <TheMuso> Sorry, wrong one
[06:07] <bddebian> TheMuso: :-)
[06:07] <TheMuso> Damn speech
[06:07] <TheMuso> I had to check the spelling of that.
[06:07] <TheMuso> Different package.
[06:07] <bddebian> Aye, KDE
[06:08] <ajmitch> might as well blame KDE for everything
[06:12] <ajmitch> bddebian: you said for kvpnc that we already have <IP_ADDRESS>-1 in the archive, but this appears to be a merge anyway
[06:12] <ajmitch> just one that has a couple of problems :)
[06:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sorry, you lost me there?
[06:13] <ajmitch><EMAIL_ADDRESS>wrote:
[06:13] <ajmitch>
[06:13] <ajmitch> Why did you downgrade the standards version?  Ubuntu already has <IP_ADDRESS>-1 in Edgy.
[06:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: Debian does not have 4.0.14
[06:14] <StevenK> However, it has 4.0.13-0.1
[06:16] <crimsun> (I supposed 'have' in the context of being mirrored, etc., right. 4.0.14's on incoming.)
[06:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yes.  I am asking him why he downgraded the standards version from the package we have in Edgy on his merge?
[06:18] <bddebian> Damnit, looks like scourge is out for now :-(
[06:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: because he did this for dapper
[06:18] <ajmitch> the last upload of it was done before dapper was released
[06:18] <bddebian> Ah, hmm
[06:18] <ajmitch> and he probably took the version from debian-policy in dapper
[06:19] <bddebian> I told ya I shouldn't be doing this stuff :-)
[06:20] <StevenK> steven@jaded:~% dpkg --compare-versions 4.0.13-0.1 gt 4.0.13ubuntu1
[06:20] <StevenK> zsh: exit 1     dpkg --compare-versions 4.0.13-0.1 gt 4.0.13ubuntu1
[06:20] <crimsun> yeah, I have that issue with apt-proxy, too
[06:21] <ajmitch> StevenK: http://incoming.debian.org/offlineimap_4.0.14_i386.changes
[06:21] <StevenK> Ahhhh
[06:21] <StevenK> My problem evaporates.
[06:25] <nixternal> hey bddebian, with lyx i appologize for the stupid mistakes with the email addy
[06:26] <bddebian> nixternal: ??
[06:26] <nixternal> on revu
[06:26] <nixternal> Newer version synced from Debian. Archiving this upload. Thank you!
[06:28] <ajmitch> TheMuso: checking jfbterm now
[06:28] <ajmitch> StevenK: just another sync being requested
[06:29] <bddebian> nixternal: No worries :-)
[06:30] <ajmitch> StevenK: you mustn't have uploaded
[06:30] <StevenK> Ah, no, it was fbiterm
[06:31] <ajmitch> TheMuso: confirmed
[06:32] <TheMuso> ajmitch: thanks
[06:35] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: good work
[06:35] <Hobbsee> that thing was seriously driving me *nuts*
[06:36] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well done.
[06:36] <ajmitch> makes me wish for ubuntu again, even with soyuz being slow
[06:37] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: I'd say in ~12 hours or so, maybe about 14 judging by the last upload to incoming
[06:37] <TheMuso> StevenK: You guys talking about debian?
[06:37] <StevenK> ajmitch: Oh yes, Soyuz is good.
[06:38] <ajmitch> oh yes
[06:38] <ajmitch> 01:31 < Keybuk> it could be worse, it could be designed by a launchpad developer
[06:38] <ajmitch> 01:31 < Keybuk> --force --force-harder --FORCE --FORCE-FORCE-FORCE
[06:38] <ajmitch> good alright
[06:38] <Hobbsee> haha yeah, i saw that :P
[06:38] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's appreciated
[06:38] <micahcowan> Would a MOTU be interested in looking at bug 45930, on the joystick package?
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45930 in glibc "jstest SEGFAULTs with usb joystick" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45930
[06:39] <bddebian> ajmitch: Oh yeah, by whom? :-)
[06:39] <ajmitch> bddebian: by me of course
[06:39] <micahcowan> It's a minor issue, but one that has annoyed some of us who would like to use jstest on USB gamepads. A debdiff is there.
[06:39] <ajmitch> StevenK: discussing sudo, and then the fun of launchpad
[06:39] <StevenK> Ah
[06:40] <micahcowan> It absolutely should nto be ajmitch: it's just that some people's errors refer to glibc... :-)
[06:40] <ajmitch> then I'll reject the glibc task
[06:41] <ajmitch> micahcowan: so is it sane to just not print any names if the number is out of range?
[06:42] <micahcowan> ajmitch, well, the number's not just out of range: they're all zeroes (and meaningless). But the way jstest works, it assumes the button name values are all over N, and uses (value)-N to get the index into an array of text names...
[06:42] <ajmitch> how annoying
[06:43] <micahcowan> it may well be that there /was/ a kernel issue as well, but that's no excuse for sloppy coding in jstest, I would think.
[06:43] <ajmitch> but is this just a workaround for that?
[06:43] <ajmitch> hm
[06:43] <micahcowan> Well, I'm not familiar with the kernel code, so I can't profess to know what jstest /should/ expect to get from the device... only what it does get, in the case of USB gamepads and the like. :/
[06:44] <ajmitch> other crackful stuff in this package, like build-depends-on-build-essential build-depends
[06:44] <micahcowan> huh.
[06:44] <StevenK> I remember a DD who did that.
[06:44] <micahcowan> Yeah, and no patch system, so the debdiff I submitted was a direct change to the souce.
[06:44] <ajmitch> StevenK: looks like it could be
[06:45] <micahcowan> It could be that more information from upstream would be in order, to ascertain whether my fix is more of a workaround than a true fix.
[06:45] <ajmitch> that's pretty special, having build-essential in there
[06:46] <micahcowan> (btw, thanks for having a look)
[06:49] <ajmitch> built fine, I'll upload - patch seems somewhat reasonable
[06:49] <micahcowan> thanks, ajmitch. :-)
[06:49] <ajmitch> close the bug with 'fix released' once it's in the archive
[06:50] <micahcowan> are you talking to me? I can't close bugs... :/
[06:50] <ajmitch> you should be able to
[06:51] <TheMuso> micahcowan: You can.
[06:51] <micahcowan> Oh. Maybe I can, then. :)
[06:51] <ajmitch> click on the joystick (Ubuntu) task
[06:51] <ajmitch> you should be able to change status there
[06:51] <micahcowan> Yeah, I sorta just assumed I didn't have the ability.
[06:51] <TheMuso> IMO thats its only problem.
[06:52] <micahcowan> elinks', or launchpads?
[06:52] <ajmitch> micahcowan: you can change status but not importance
[06:52] <micahcowan> right... I agree with that thinking. :-)
[06:52] <micahcowan> though, as someone pointed out in motu-school the other day, it might be nice to be able to mark your own bug as "wishlist"... :-)
[06:53] <ajmitch> yes
[06:55] <bddebian> Bah, I'm going to bed.  Gnight folks
[06:55] <bddebian> ajmitch: I'll try to hit more REVU stuff tomorrow
[06:56] <ajmitch> delegation is a good thing :)
[06:57] <micahcowan> ajmitch: I installed literally the 1ubuntu2 version of joystick that I submitted a debdiff for... when it hits the archive, will I still get an update notification?
[06:58] <ajmitch> not really, since there's a delay between the upload, the source getting published, and binaries built+published
[06:59] <micahcowan> Oh. How will I know when it hits the archive (and, to rephrase my earleir question, will I get an update when it's available, given that it's the same "version")?
[07:01] <ajmitch> you probably won't know, and you may get an update
[07:01] <ajmitch> source is accepted, at least
[07:03] <ajmitch> might as well just close the bug now
[07:08] <micahcowan> okay, done. thanks!
[07:18] <Hobbsee> bye all
[08:31] <siretart> ajmitch: yes?
[08:31] <ajmitch> siretart: ah, sorry
[08:31] <ajmitch> I mentioned your name earlier when talking about REVU
[08:31] <ajmitch> whether we need to show all the archived packages on the main page
[08:31] <siretart> ajmitch: this changed yesterday. I merged Toadstool's branch
[08:32] <ajmitch> right :)
[08:32] <siretart> :)
[08:32] <siretart> no problem
[08:32] <ajmitch> what did he change?
[08:33] <ajmitch> ok, that looks useful
[08:33] <ajmitch> bddebian went through & archived a number of old uploads today
[08:34] <ajmitch> the queue is looking slightly more manageable now
[08:35] <siretart> It would be cool if nuking would work recursivly
[08:35] <ajmitch> what do you mean?
[08:36] <siretart> currently, if you use the nuke link, it nukes exactly this upload
[08:36] <siretart> nuking all uploads regarding a packages would be helpful, I think
[08:37] <ajmitch> ah, I thought that it nuked all
[08:38] <siretart> nope.
[08:39] <siretart> ajmitch: I don't know if you've seen it already, revu now moved from /srv/revu1 to /srv/revu1-production, which is an bzr branch
[08:39] <siretart> ajmitch: this makes merging patches easier
[08:40] <ajmitch> yes I saw that there was a new directory there
[08:40] <ajmitch> do we still use scripts in /srv/revu1/scripts ?
[08:43] <siretart> better point them to /srv/revu1-production/scripts. I made /srv/revu1 a symlink, for transitional purposes
[08:43] <ajmitch> ok
[08:46] <ajmitch> hopefully we get bzr & bzrtools 0.9 in edgy soon
[08:47] <ajmitch> it has a few nice improvements that would be nice to have
[08:51] <Nafallo> like speed :-)
[08:52] <ajmitch> yep
[08:52] <Nafallo> hmm
[08:52] <Nafallo> so 1h30m until the train leaves...
[08:53] <Nafallo> I wonder what they used to put their hair in a tail in the medieval ages...
[08:54] <Nafallo> ?
[08:54] <Nafallo> and beard for that matter ;-)
[09:04] <Nafallo> hmm, so everything except the chainmail on, and it's already hot :-P
[09:06] <ajmitch> silly
[09:07] <ajmitch> how heavy will the chainmail be?
[09:09] <Nafallo> I'll go and look :-)
[09:10] <Nafallo> 4kg. so not much :-).
[09:11] <ajmitch> not so bad
[09:12] <Nafallo> but the steel will still be heated in the sun :-P
[09:13] <ajmitch> you'll be nice & toasty warm
[09:13] <ajmitch> how annoying, GL stuff is all broken on my laptop now
[10:26] <Sp4rKy> hey
[11:11] <Hobbsee> hi all
[11:12] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[11:14] <Hobbsee> and if i dont scan the right subnet, then i certainly wont find the printer!
[11:15] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: are you running the latest & greatest X, mesa & i810 driver?
[11:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i believe so, i think i got those updates earlier
[11:16] <Hobbsee> when did the last update come thru?
[11:16] <ajmitch> can you run glxgears please?
[11:16] <ajmitch> mesa should be git version from about 2 days ago, i810 driver is 1.6.5-0ubuntu2
[11:17] <ajmitch> xorg-server is 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu6
[11:17] <ajmitch> iirc
[11:17] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: nice....chuggy
[11:17] <Hobbsee> yep, i've got them running
[11:17] <ajmitch> any bad flicker & tearing?
[11:18] <Hobbsee> apart from the fact that it's like a frame every second and a half, nto that i can see.
[11:18] <ajmitch> ouch
[11:18] <ajmitch> can you put your /var/log/Xorg.0.log somewhere I can see it?
[11:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: http://rafb.net/paste/results/zjHNR511.html
[11:19] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:19] <ajmitch> (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/i915_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/i915_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
[11:19] <ajmitch> ok
[11:20] <ajmitch> you just need to install libgl1-mesa-dri
[11:20] <ajmitch> if you'd be so kind as to install that package & restart X, putting the log up again? :)
[11:22] <ajmitch> someone filing an RC bug because a package has ~ in the version number
[11:22] <ajmitch> true, it's not in policy yet, but it's announced on d-d-a
[11:27] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/MyBPdK29.html
[11:28] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:28] <ajmitch> sorry to inconvenience you :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> (EE) AIGLX error: Calling driver entry point failed(EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering
[11:29] <ajmitch> great
[11:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's okay.  glxgears is still incredibly slow, too
[11:29] <ajmitch> same error as I get, so that's confirmation
[11:29] <ajmitch> now I have to track it down in the dri code
[11:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: true.  do make sure you enjoy that :P
[11:29] <ajmitch> just finished rebuilding mesa
[11:30] <ajmitch> if I can get some debugging output I'll be happy
[11:31] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:32] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[11:32] <ajmitch> hm, didn't manage to get any further output
[11:32] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso :)
[11:32] <TheMuso> How was your afternoon? I assume you worked?
[11:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:35] <siretart> ok. recursive removals now work. at least foradmins with shell accesson tiver
[11:36] <siretart> tiber, even
[11:36] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: no, actually, i met up with StevenK, after finishing that maths quiz.
[11:36] <TheMuso> Ah right.
[11:36] <Hobbsee> that was fun :)
[11:36] <ajmitch> siretart: great
[11:36] <TheMuso> heh right
[11:53] <Sp4rKy> please
[11:54] <Sp4rKy> if i want changes any file in debian/tmp/... , ihave to put command line just before dh_installdeb ?
[12:01] <ajmitch> Sp4rKy: I wouldn't put it just before - it's common to put it in the install: target
[12:04] <Sp4rKy> ajmitch, k
[12:05] <TheMuso> Hey StevenK.
[12:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> can we have an op in #ubuntu?
[12:08] <siretart> Kamping_Kaiser: Seveas is not around? Hobbsee might do as well..
[12:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> siretart, anyone, not picky ;)
[12:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah, got nalioth
[12:08] <siretart> well, not me at last ;)
[12:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
[12:37] <Hobbsee> siretart: sorry, was afk
[12:41] <Toadstool> heya everybody
[12:42] <Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
[12:42] <Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
[12:46] <zakame> hello all
[12:46] <Toadstool> hey zakame
[12:47] <zakame> yo Toadstool :)
[12:47] <Hobbsee> hi zakame
[12:47] <zakame> heya Hobbsee :)
[12:47] <zakame> ssup?
[12:47] <Hobbsee> zakame: not a lot :)  yourself?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> looking at your stuff about ntfs-3g though, and thinking it looks good.
[12:48] <zakame> aside from SoC and ntfs-3g, just twiddling around with my desktop :)
[12:48] <zakame> decided to explore deploying web apps again :)
[12:49] <Hobbsee> StevenK: what about it?
[12:49] <zakame> whoa? why, did you got Brain?
[12:49] <StevenK> It throws an exception and dies.
[12:50] <zakame> oh, I thought twas a classice dos virus :P
[12:50] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:50] <Toadstool> heh
[12:54] <geser> hello
[12:54] <zakame> hi geser
[12:54] <geser> is it possible to get a package from debian experimental into ubuntu?
[12:55] <geser> gaim-encryption is needed in version 3.0beta5 to work with gaim 2.0beta3 (in edgy)
[12:55] <zakame> of course, provided the build-deps are sane
[12:56] <zakame> but I don't think we can vouch support forthat, since the reason why such software's in experimental is exactly for testing :/
[12:56] <geser> nothing special: gaim, gtk and libnss/libnspr
[12:57] <geser> the version of gaim-encryption currently in edgy doesn't work with gaim from edgy
[12:57] <geser> it is for gaim 1.5
[12:59] <zakame> indeed; just looked at exp's changelog
[12:59] <zakame> its in expereimental exactly because gaim2 hasn't entered unstable yet
[01:04] <ajmitch> hi zakame
[01:05] <zakame> heya ajmitch ! how's things?
[01:09] <ajmitch> good, just trying to track down a bug
[01:10] <cbx33> anoyone know exactly how long it'll be before gisomount gets into the universe?
[01:10] <cbx33> I'm just curious
[01:13] <ajmitch> cbx33: has it been uploaded?
[01:13] <ajmitch> ah, it has
[01:13] <ajmitch> and sitting in NEW
[01:14] <ajmitch> so, whenever the archive admins feel like accepting new packages
[01:15] <Hobbsee> which, seeing they did a whole lot of syncs yesterday/this morning, probably not for another while.
[01:19] <geser> zakame: I rebuild the gaim-encryption package from debian-experimental and it builds and works on edgy
[01:20] <geser> should I file a bug requesting an update to the version from debian experimental?
[01:29] <zakame> perhaps its wise to try
[01:39] <cbx33> ajmitch, wonderful
[01:39] <cbx33> :(
[01:39] <cbx33> it's been there for about a month now
[02:27] <Hobbsee> oh for goodness sake....
[02:27] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/56125
[02:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56125 in apt "doesnt look like a cow" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
[02:27] <Hobbsee> i wonder just how many bugs we have that are like that...
[02:27] <bmonty_away> heh
[02:28] <bmonty> that is somewhat humerous
[02:28] <Hobbsee> true
[02:28] <bmonty> you that someday there will be a list of launchpad "joke" bugs
[02:28] <bmonty> in someone's blog
[02:29] <tseng> at UDU they all involved "the mask guy"
[02:29] <tseng> medicine mask
[02:32] <chantra> Hi, is there a motu around
[02:32] <chantra> could you tell me if gaim-libnotify made its way up?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> chantra: maybe if you tell us where it came from, and where it's going to.
[02:34] <bmonty> its not in launchpad
[02:34] <chantra> I uploaded it to revu
[02:35] <ajmitch> tseng: don't remind me of that one...
[02:36] <tseng> ajmitch: haha
[02:36] <ajmitch> chantra: if you go to revu.tauware.de you'll see it listed there
[02:36] <tseng> mdz added some kind of tag "medicine mask guy" so he could find it again
[02:36] <chantra> yep, but not updated
[02:36] <ajmitch> how long ago did you upload?
[02:37] <chantra> ajmitch: it is still august 3rd
[02:37] <Hobbsee> tseng: heh
[02:37] <ajmitch> iirc siretart turned off the cronjob
[02:37] <chantra> hhhmmm 30 min ago
[02:37] <ajmitch> so revu uploads need processed manually
[02:37] <chantra> okie dokie
[02:40] <ajmitch> siretart: scripts/register_upload.py isn't executable
[02:41] <ajmitch> one among a few that probably should be
[02:41] <siretart> yes
[02:41] <siretart> I turned that cronjob of
[02:42] <siretart> because I wanted to process the next upload manuall
[02:42] <siretart> y
[02:42] <ajmitch> ok
[02:42] <siretart> hm. nothing in ~/ftp/incoming?
[02:42] <ajmitch> I'll put one there :)
[02:42] <ajmitch> chantra: can you re-upload?
[02:43] <ajmitch> siretart: uploading libcm as a test
[02:43] <ajmitch> you can put that through manually
[02:44] <chantra> ajmitch: yep
[02:45] <chantra> should I dputs -P or simply dputs ?
[02:45] <ajmitch> dput -f
[02:45] <chantra> okie
[02:45] <chantra> ajmitch:  done
[02:46] <ajmitch> siretart: there you go, 2 uploads to play with
[02:46] <chantra> :)
[02:50] <siretart> hm. just as I expected
[02:50] <siretart> bad permissions of the ftp server :/
[02:50] <chantra> :s
[02:51] <ajmitch> hm?
[02:51] <ajmitch> siretart: what user are you running the process_uploads.sh as now?
[02:53] <siretart> ajmitch: I want to change it so it runs as user 'revu1'
[02:54] <siretart> ajmitch: but vsftp doesn't honor my umask settings :/
[02:54] <ajmitch> everything still getting set to 0600?
[02:55] <siretart> yeah, I want it to be 0660
[03:00] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon_.
[03:01] <imbrandon_> heya TheMuso
[03:06] <siretart> ok, now some more permission fixes..
[03:08] <chantra> siretart: do wa need to reupload it?
[03:09] <siretart> chantra: no, it has been acceppted
[03:09] <chantra> okie :)
[03:09] <siretart> FYI, I reactivated the cronjob
[03:15] <ajmitch> siretart: all sorted?
[03:16] <ajmitch> siretart: did you remove libcm?
[03:16] <siretart> ajmitch: feel free to hit me if there are still problems
[03:16] <siretart> ajmitch: not yet, do you want to? ;)
[03:16] <ajmitch> I don't think the register_upload.py is being run properly
[03:16] <zul_> wohoo...free shot at siretart
[03:17] <ajmitch> so uploads will get accepted but not show up for review
[03:17] <ajmitch> chmod +x should fix it
[03:18] <ajmitch> siretart: also, I'll write up a cron job in the next couple of days to clean up old binary uploads
[03:18] <ajmitch> or some other queue cleaner
[03:19] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:19] <siretart> that would be cool
[03:19] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[03:19] <siretart> huhu bddebian
[03:19] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch, siretart
[03:19] <siretart> ajmitch: oh? hmmm..
[03:19] <ajmitch> it's often incomplete uploads rather than binary uploads that are the problem
[03:19] <bddebian> Hello Gloubiboulga
[03:19] <Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian
[03:20] <bmonty> hey bddebian
[03:20] <bddebian> Hi bmonty
[03:21] <ajmitch> siretart: done chmod on register_upload.py, I don't think anything else needs done - both libcm & gaim-libnotify need register_upload.py run on them though
[03:21] <siretart> ajmitch: ah. I'll add chmods to process-incoming.py
[03:21] <ajmitch> new script?
[03:22] <siretart> err, /srv/revu1-production/scripts/process_uploads.sh that is
[03:22] <ajmitch> ok
[03:22] <ajmitch> I'll think about how to do a queue cleaner that can work reliably
[03:22] <ajmitch> for now, I need to sleep :)
[03:22] <ajmitch> night all
[03:22] <chantra> nighty
[03:23] <TheMuso> Night ajmitch
[03:23] <imbrandon_> gnight ajmitch
[03:24] <bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
[03:27] <matid> ajmitch: Nigh
[03:27] <matid> t
[03:39] <TheMuso> Has anybody been bitten by bug #53892?
[03:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53892 in linux-kernel-headers "Please put linux/compiler.h back" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53892
[03:39] <bddebian> Nah, I don't do anything so bugs don't affect me.. ;-)
[03:40] <Gloubiboulga> hehe
[03:41] <Gloubiboulga> Someon here have had an issue with with file, and he patched the sources to remove the '#include <linux/compiler.h>' lines IIRC
[03:48] <imbrandon_> quote : " (linux/compiler.h is just an empty file anyway), but I expect other packages might do the same. " ..... would it not be better then to fix the offending packages , rather than put back an empty file ?
[03:49] <Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga, bddebian
[03:49] <TheMuso> imbrandon_: But was it removed for a reason?
[03:49] <TheMuso> compiler.h that is.
[03:49] <imbrandon_> TheMuso: probably becouse it was empty
[03:49] <imbrandon_> heh
[03:49] <Toadstool> :)
[03:49] <TheMuso> imbrandon_: hmmm
[03:50] <bddebian> Hi Toadstool
[03:51] <Gloubiboulga> bien le bonjour Toadstool ;)
[03:51] <Toadstool> hehe
[03:51] <Toadstool> bddebian: cleaning up revu, eh? :)
[03:52] <imbrandon_> poke BenC he does the kernel stuff , but i'm guessing it was just a cleanup of un-nessesary files ( read: empty ) and the packages that include it should be / should have been  fixed anyhow instead of keeping old unused empty files ;)
[03:52] <imbrandon_> TheMuso: ^^
[03:52] <bddebian> Toadstool: Aye, trying :-)
[03:52] <TheMuso> imbrandon_: Yeah I know.
[03:52] <TheMuso> I saw what you wrote
[03:53] <TheMuso> Anyway, to bed with me.
[03:53] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[03:53] <imbrandon_> gnight TheMuso ;)
[03:53] <bddebian> Gnight TheMuso
[03:53] <Toadstool> bddebian: I wish I worked as hard as you :)
[03:53] <Toadstool> g'night TheMuso
[03:53] <bddebian> Toadstool: Bah I don't do much significant unfortunately :-(
[03:54] <Toadstool> of course you do, every sync, merge you did helped a lot
[03:54] <bddebian> Thx
[03:59] <Gloubiboulga> hum, thunderbird just crashed...
[04:14] <bddebian> Ugh, I have to go clean out my garage :-(
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[04:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> any good gear send my way
[04:15] <bddebian> Sure, you want a girls bike, a wagon, what? ;-)
[04:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. a wheelbarrow would be good, help transport the pcs around ;)
[04:16] <bmonty> bddebian: what kind of wagon?
[04:22] <tseng> Radio Flyer
[04:24] <bmonty> tseng: do you have an inventroy of bddebian's garage?
[04:24] <tseng> yes
[04:24] <tseng> radio flyer on page 6
[04:27] <bddebian> Heh, nah just a plastic Little Tykes one or whatever :-)
[04:27] <bmonty> darn, my kid likes the radio flyer wagons
[04:53] <chantra> hi
[04:54] <chantra> siretart: gaim-libnotify update still do not show on revu
[05:04] <matid> Hi, what are the guidelines for bringing a new package from debian into the universe?
[05:04] <matid> Should I follow the syncing guides?
[05:07] <Gloubiboulga> matid, yes, you need to test if it builds fine in ubuntu, and then request a sync
[05:07] <Gloubiboulga> or merge it if some changes are needed
[05:08] <matid> Ok. If there is no need for changes I should left the release as it is (not ubuntu* suffix)?
[05:10] <Gloubiboulga> if there's no change needed just open a bug on LP, asking for a sync
[05:10] <bmonty> matid: what package are you working on?
[05:11] <matid> There is already a bug on LP, it's about how can I help to bring this package to ubuntu
[05:11] <bmonty> bug #?
[05:11] <matid> bug 56133
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56133 in Ubuntu "Can you please include slime" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56133
[05:11] <matid> There are some licensing issues but it should be ok for multiverse
[05:12] <bmonty> this package already exists in debian
[05:12] <bmonty> ?
[05:12] <matid> Yes, it does. non-free section though
[05:12] <matid> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/slime
[05:14] <matid> I thought of uploading it to revu after testing if it build ok, but I'm not sure if that's the good way to go
[05:14] <bmonty> matid: don't upload to revu
[05:14] <bmonty> have you built it in edgy yet?
[05:15] <matid> I'm in the middle of building it.
[05:16] <bmonty> looks like slime needs cl-swank which is not in ubuntu, so you will need to test that one as well
[05:16] <bmonty> oops, nevermind
[05:16] <matid> By the way, I should use REVU only for new packages that aren't in Debian yet?
[05:16] <bmonty> should click on the source package :)
[05:16] <bmonty> matid: yes
[05:18] <matid> bmonty: And the only way to help with syncing is actually testing if the package builds and works well and leaving the rest to MOTUs?
[05:19] <bmonty> matid: if you test it and it builds and there are no mods required, I'll do a quick test and then we can request the sync
[05:20] <matid> bmonty: Built, no problems so far. I'll try if it installs correctly and runs as it should.
[05:22] <chantra> raphink: are you here?
[05:23] <raphink> chantra: yep
[05:23] <chantra> top, earleir on i uploaded gaim-libnotify
[05:23] <chantra> siretart: told me it was accepted, but it still doen't show on revu
[05:24] <raphink> chantra: let me see
[05:24] <chantra> cool, cheers
[05:26] <raphink> i don't see anything in the incoming queue chantra
[05:26] <raphink> so if it's not there, you have to upload it again
[05:26] <chantra> raphink: oki, doing it right away
[05:27] <chantra> raphink: done
[05:27] <raphink> ok
[05:27] <raphink> let's wait 3 minutes chantra
[05:29] <chantra> ok
[05:30] <matid> bmonty: Installs fine. Don't know about running though, I don't use emacs.
[05:30] <bmonty> matid: ok, it built fine for me also, please update the bug with your results
[05:31] <matid> bmonty: My results? What do you mean? Should I just state that it builds fine or sth else?
[05:32] <bmonty> matid: yes, that it built/installed, what architecture and distro you built under
[05:35] <matid> bmonty: Done
[05:35] <siretart> chantra: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2872
[05:35] <siretart> chantra: so I assume everythings cool again?
[05:35] <siretart> raphink: ping
[05:36] <raphink> pong siretart
[05:36] <chantra> siretart: yes, now it is
[05:36] <chantra> but it wasn't 10 min ago
[05:37] <chantra> cheers guys
[05:38] <bmonty> matid: all set for a sync request
[05:38] <matid> bmonty: How can I track it?
[05:39] <bmonty> matid: what the bug...since you are subscribed you should get an email when the archive admins sync the package
[05:39] <bmonty> s/what/watch/
[05:40] <matid> bmonty: I meant when it will be uploaded, but I guess tracking the bug itself is the better way to goo
[05:40] <matid> s/goo/go
[05:40] <matid> bmonty: And that's the way to help out with syncing? I'm supposed to check if the package builds and installs fine, leave a comment on the bug and wait?
[05:41] <bmonty> matid: sync requests usually take a couple of days...depends on when they get processed
[05:42] <matid> bmonty: Who processes them? MOTUs?
[05:42] <bmonty> matid: no, the archive admins...look at the team members for the actual people
[05:43] <bmonty> matid: I think you are refering to merging....requesting a sync is one outcome of that
[05:44] <matid> bmonty: Ok, and what's the procedure of merging? Let's say I took an updated package from Debian, applied the changes from previous ubuntu* release and want it to be merged.
[05:45] <matid> bmonty: The only thing I can to is to attach a debdiff and wait for a MOTU or whoever to upload it?
[05:45] <bmonty> matid: essentially yes
[05:47] <matid> bmonty: Ok, thanks for you help.
[05:48] <bmonty> np :)
[05:48] <matid> Guess I'll stick with merging for a while.
[05:55] <bmonty> matid: make sure that you subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to any merge bugs you open
[05:56] <matid> Ok. Merges are handled by ubuntu-universe-sponsors and motu team, not ubuntu-archive-admins, am I right?
[05:57] <bmonty> matid: if we are uploading a merged package (with a -ubuntuX version) then the motus will handle it, syncs are handled by the archive admins
[05:57] <matid> bmonty: Ok, I got it
[06:00] <bmonty> Toadstool: ping
[06:09] <Toadstool> bmonty: pong
[06:09] <bmonty> Toadstool: on bug 56001, I think Scott wants you to specifically state that it is ok to drop the ubuntu changes
[06:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56001 in gnomebaker "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync gnomebaker" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56001
[06:10] <Toadstool> bmonty: hmm, ok
[06:14] <Toadstool> done
[06:15] <bmonty> Toadstool: thanks
[06:18] <gnomefreak> i should have done that :( sorry
[06:18] <gnomefreak> is there any reason why xchat is in universe while xchat-gnome is in main?
[06:23] <siretart> gnomefreak: I think for xubuntu, but I'm not sure
[06:26] <gnomefreak> siretart: i commented and changed it to wish list to support xchat and xchat-gnome in same repo due to unwanted libs being installed if universe is not enabled
[06:36] <matid> Do you know any tool that will download a requested source package from debian? Sth like apt-get source, but I want it it run on my edgy install
[06:39] <bmonty> matid: http://merges.ubuntu.com/ get the grab-merge.sh script
[06:40] <bmonty> it will do that for packages on the merge list
[06:41] <matid> bmonty: Thanks
[06:41] <bddebian> Or use wget ;-)
[06:41] <matid> bddebian: Know this one ;)
[06:44] <gnomefreak> that script rocks ;)
[06:48] <matid> No, that's too much. This script did all the job for me. That's cruel ;)
[06:59] <Goshawk> hi
[07:02] <Goshawk> this question can be offtopic, but i think that most of you use pbuilder (pdebuild) to build packages. My question is: how can i preserve my build environment even if an error occurs and then clean it when i want? the --preserve-buildplace options cleans the environment on failure but i need that it remains (i'm doing this to see where is the fault), any help will be helpful, thanks...
[07:16] <freeflying> how can I  only mirror the dapper and edgy's archive?
[09:22] <bmonty> hi LaserJock
[09:27] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[09:31] <micahcowan> In synaptic, as I click on "Mark all upgrades", it tells me "to be removed" are language-support-{ja,el,he}. Why? Is there a replacement for these packages?
[09:32] <bmonty> micahcowan: you should ask that in #ubuntu
[09:33] <micahcowan> yeah, but it's edgy, so I figured someone who's been working on recent developments might have a clue (it's just today). Thanks, anyway.
[09:33] <ash211> and check my response to that q in #ubuntu+1
[09:33] <bmonty> micahcowan: see the /topic
[09:34] <micahcowan> Yes, I see it: it's for MOTUs. I'm not looking for support: I'm looking for reasons.
[09:36] <LaserJock> micahcowan: last I checked language-support-* was Main ;-)
[09:36] <LaserJock> and I would check the changelogs to look for reasons
[09:43] <imbrandon_> and #ubuntu+1 is edgy
[09:43] <imbrandon_> heya LaserJock
[09:43] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon_
[09:44] <imbrandon_> ssh -p 20022 <IP_ADDRESS>
[09:44] <imbrandon_> gah /me needs to wakeup
[09:50] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[09:50] <LaserJock> bddebian!!!
[09:51] <bmonty> hey bddebian
[09:51] <LaserJock> anybody know who kmilo is?
[09:52] <bddebian> Hi bmonty
[09:52] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hmm, name sounds familiar
[09:53] <LaserJock> well, he added MOTU Enthusiast to our wiki pages
[09:53] <LaserJock> so now we have MOTU, MOTU Hopeful, and MOTU Enthusiast
[09:54] <imbrandon_> heh whats the diffrence ?
[09:54] <LaserJock> well, MOTU Hopeful is supposed to be somebody who *wants* to become a MOTU
[09:55] <LaserJock> and MOTU Enthusiast is one who just wants to help out
[09:55] <LaserJock> or something to that effect
[09:55] <imbrandon_> lol
[09:55] <LaserJock> MOTU-holic ;-)
[09:55] <welshbyte> :)
[09:55] <LaserJock> raging MOTU-holic ;-)
[09:55] <imbrandon_> that would be you ;)
[09:56] <LaserJock> anyway, I was wondering if that change was discussed here or not
[09:56] <LaserJock> I'm looking at the log and haven't found anything yet
[09:56] <imbrandon_> not hat i recall but i just got in today
[09:56] <imbrandon_> brb , time to get somew food
[09:57] <LaserJock> imbrandon_: the wife and I just ate at the Bonanza buffet
[09:57] <LaserJock> it's our 5th year anniversary so we went all out ;-)
[09:57] <imbrandon_> ;)
[09:57] <imbrandon_> hehe
[09:57] <LaserJock> normally we go to Wendy's
[09:58] <imbrandon_> and your on here ? shame on you heheh
[09:58] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:58] <LaserJock> "I don't care if it *is* our anniversy honey, I've got to get some MOTU work done" :-)
[09:59] <bddebian> hehe
[10:00] <bddebian> LaserJock: I haven't seen/heard anything about it but hey, I'm nobody :-)
[10:00] <imbrandon_> LaserJock: LOL
[10:00] <LaserJock> well, you are at least around
[10:00] <welshbyte> LaserJock: happy anniversary :)
[10:00] <LaserJock> I don't see any mention of it in the logs
[10:01] <LaserJock> my concern about the whole Enthusiast thing is that we have no mechanism for seperating that
[10:01] <LaserJock> perhaps Hopeful is not the right term
[10:01] <LaserJock> but we only have MOTUs and non-MOTUs
[10:01] <LaserJock> ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-universe-contributors
[10:02] <bddebian> And us lackeys
[10:02] <imbrandon_> do we realy NEED to seperate it, afaik its the hopefulls jobs to present his case ( with cheering ) if wanted to move to the next step(s) .....
[10:02] <LaserJock> well, the idea is that there might be some people who want to help, but don't want to become MOTUs
[10:03] <LaserJock> which I can see
[10:03] <LaserJock> and so MOTU Hopeful gives the conotation that you are just doing your time until you can make MOTU
[10:03] <imbrandon_> exactly so they would follow the same proceedures as a hopefull ( the hopefull then takes it one bit further by documenting )
[10:03] <LaserJock> right
[10:04] <imbrandon_> no changes in proceedure to seperate their efferts , its upto THEM to seperate
[10:04] <imbrandon_> IMHO
[10:04] <LaserJock> so I see where the idea of the MOTU Enthusiast would come from
[10:04] <LaserJock> but I don't think we have a basis for seperating that
[10:04] <imbrandon_> right
[10:05] <LaserJock> the only difference between a MOTU Hopeful and a MOTU Enthusiast is one would apply for ubuntu-dev and the other wouldn't
[10:05] <imbrandon_> yup
[10:05] <LaserJock> well, I hate reverting people's stuff on the wiki, but we need a massive MOTU wiki cleanup
[10:06] <LaserJock> we have over 100 wiki pages marked CategoryMOTU
[10:07] <imbrandon_> heh i know , i go and mop some up now and then
[10:07] <imbrandon_> when i'm bored
[10:07] <LaserJock> ~ 30 pages are for MOTU Teams
[10:08] <imbrandon_> MOTU Teams ?
[10:09] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[10:09] <LaserJock> some of the teams are more active/developed than others
[10:10] <imbrandon_> beejesus theres alot
[10:10] <imbrandon_> ok soda time
[10:10] <imbrandon_> brb LaserJock , i guess today might be a wiki day
[10:10] <imbrandon_> bddebian: hahahaha
[10:10] <bmonty> bddebian: is your icon for the team going to be a picture of a whip?
[10:11] <LaserJock> bddebian: I thought that's what MOTU Science team was for ;-)
[10:12] <LaserJock> lol, I love this MOTU School request, "Dealing with hideously packaged packages"
[10:12] <LaserJock> "Tips from your worst experiences: beating '''really''' badly packaged sources into a deb"
[10:18] <bddebian> bmonty: Aye
[10:18] <bddebian> LaserJock: You have azeem now, you don't need me anymore :'-(
[10:18] <crimsun> bddebian has graduated to head lackey
[10:19] <bddebian> Not hardly
[10:19] <LaserJock> yep
[10:19] <LaserJock> it's true
[10:19] <imbrandon_> bmonty: a pillow icon ;)
[10:20] <bmonty> imbrandon_: if bddebianwas the only member :)
[10:21] <imbrandon_> fuel*
[10:21] <imbrandon_> grr
[10:21] <bddebian> :-)
[10:36] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:36] <imbrandon_> heya ajmitch
[10:36] <carthik> morning ajmitch
[10:40] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:41] <bddebian> Why is the year not on the date of uploads to REVU?
[10:42] <crimsun> well you know back in 1990 when REVU was first used...
[10:42] <ajmitch> because we didn't expect to have uploads older than a year when it was written?
[10:43] <bddebian> Heh, probably :-)
[10:44] <ajmitch> then get to work
[10:51] <ajmitch> hm
[10:53] <bddebian> ajmitch: I'm still working on your damn REVU stuff even though I'm probably doing them all wrong
[10:57] <ajmitch> well...
[10:58] <bddebian> well what?
[11:01] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well what?
[11:19] <phanatic> evening
[11:21] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[11:21] <phanatic> hey bddebian
[11:31] <bddebian> do be do be dooo
[11:32] <Toadstool> too much revu, he's cracking up :)
[11:33] <Toadstool> re
[11:33] <bddebian> Heh, heya Toadstool
[11:33] <bddebian> Toadstool: Nope, I'm waiting for my scolding from ajmitch
[11:33] <Toadstool> uh?
[11:33] <Toadstool> what did you do?
[11:34] <bddebian> Toadstool: Don't know yet, he hasn't told me :-)
[11:34] <Toadstool> heh


[04:17] <elopio> veebers: still around? anything I can do tomorrow to help with the remaining autopilot tasks?
[04:30] <veebers> elopio: hey yeah I'm still around for about an hour or so
[04:30] <veebers> elopio: I'm just pushing up some updated code and finishing a review and would like your thoughts on somethings
[04:42] <veebers> elopio: if you have a moment can you read the comments and reviews from this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/autopilot/cpo-base-classes-fix/+merge/257623
[04:42] <veebers> specifically I'm interested in your thoughts on what I wrote in the comment box
[04:46] <elopio> veebers: on it.
[04:47] <elopio> veebers: I agree on the warning.
[04:48] <elopio> we are still using multiple inheritance in the sanity suite.
[04:48] <elopio> when we remove that, we can raise the exception.
[04:48] <elopio> oh well, but the multiple inheritance in the sanity won't affect this because it's not on the base class. Anyway, I agree with you.
[04:52] <veebers> elopio: coolio :-)
[04:55] <veebers> elopio: hmm, I thought that we had discussed updating the narrative/docs for the cpo/selection thing as a separate card, or am I miss-remembering things?
[04:59] <elopio> isn't there a separate card? The one called "Add documentation for the narrative docs" ?
[05:01] <veebers> elopio: I see one in play now called "Add documentation for the narrative docs (i.e. FAQ and section on creating CPOs)" (on the board)
[05:02] <elopio> veebers: yes, so I don't get what you mean.
[05:06] <veebers> elopio: oh, I meant I thought that we weren't doing that card this sprint as we needed the other cards to land/be finished first'
[05:07] <elopio> veebers: ahh. Then I'm not sure.
[05:07] <elopio> veebers: but now that the branch is almost ready, we can prepare the doc updates, right:?
[05:12] <veebers> elopio: yeah I guess thats a good point, I was thinking with my EOD-ing soon hat on :-) I will be back online after dinner though
[05:15] <elopio> veebers: should I throw a gatekeeper now, or wait for the branch to be merged?
[05:17] <veebers> elopio: for a gatekeeper run we need it to be built into a ppa, are you suggesting setting up a silo for it?
[05:25] <elopio> veebers: no, not really. I thought we could run a gatekeeper from a branch.
[05:25] <elopio> if it requires a silo, I think we better wait for the branches to land. Things look good, the unit tests look good. I doubt we will cause a regression, and if so, it should be solved by the fix_base_class branches landing.
[05:26] <veebers> elopio: as far as I'm aware the gatekeeper (the same as the smoke dash job) runs from a ppa
[05:26] <elopio> veebers: yes, I remember now the ppa parameter.  I know vila has mentioned that he has ideas on improving how we test and release autopilot incl. ppas etc.
[05:27] <elopio> ah, right, what he said now makes sense.
[08:23] <pitti> jibel: given the history of http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-firefox/ how can we edit the history files on snakefruit to stop considering this a regression?
[08:25] <pitti> jibel: do we need to edit all PASSes in proposed-migration/autopkgtest/data/adt/trusty-proposed/amd64/archive/*/*/*/trusty_amd64_firefox_*.result ?
[08:26] <jibel> pitti, if you remove this line it should be considered as 'always failed' firefox 24.0+build1-0ubuntu1 PASS fonts-liberation 1.07.3-3
[08:27] <jibel> in the history file
[08:27] <pitti> jibel: ah, good; thanks!
[08:28] <pitti> jibel: I'm going through the trusty failures, and fixed a few bugs in autopkgtest; others like firefox need some fumbling
[08:29] <jibel> pitti, firefox used to pass but it looks like no one maintains the testsuite in ubuntu any more
[08:30] <jibel> this is sad because it found real regressions
[08:30] <pitti> yeah, same in vivid
[15:14] <elopio> vila: btw, now your autopilot ppa makes a lot of sense to me for running the gatekeeper before having a silo.
[15:19] <vila> elopio: sorry, I should have been clearer about that
[15:20] <vila> elopio, fgimenez: But w really need something faster, >4h for one iteration kills velocity (understatement)
[15:20] <elopio> vila: parallelization?
[15:21] <vila> elopio, fgimenez: we'll need to at least split the tests to run on 2 phones
[15:21] <vila> elopio: yup, coarse grained one at the highest level to start with
[15:22] <elopio> vila: and we also want the things they are doing on ci.ubuntu.com for the run to continue even if one suite killed a phone.
[15:22] <elopio> but how do we put this in CI's backlog? so many things in there.
[15:22] <vila> elopio: well, in that case we may as well run each suite on its own but...
[15:23] <vila> elopio: that's why I'm saying we focus on getting access to run autopkgtest on phones/qemu
[15:24] <vila> elopio: from there we can add the missing dep8 tests to wrap autopilot in all packages and aggregate the subunit streams ourselves
[15:24] <elopio> vila: that sounds good.
[15:24] <elopio> jfunk_: ^
[15:25] <elopio> if ci gives us this command that provissions a phone every time we want it, we can take care of all the other details.
[15:25] <elopio> then maybe we can go faster.
[15:40] <vila> elopio: exactly, including prototyping gates
[16:00] <rhuddie> elopio, thanks for your comment on mp. Is this the change that you meant? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10953708/
[16:01] <elopio> rhuddie: yes, I think so. Does it make sense to you?
[16:01] <rhuddie> elopio, yes, that makes sense. I just wanted to check I understood correctly before pushing
[16:02] <elopio> ok, thanks.
[17:05] <elopio> om26er: I wouldn't extract os.path.exists(directory) into a method.
[17:06] <elopio> is clear enough, and only one statement.
[17:07] <om26er> elopio, its subjective, I prefer to have methods as explanatory as possible and would prefer to follow DRY
[17:08] <elopio> om26er: you are only using it once, so there will be no duplication.
[17:08] <om26er> elopio, in two places in the same method.
[17:08] <elopio> om26er: ah, that's right.
[17:09] <elopio> but you are not adding clarity and you are not saving lines of code.
[17:09] <elopio> you are adding three lines instead.
[17:09] <om26er> elopio, that's why I ask if we could use a better name for the method
[17:09] <elopio> om26er: os.path.exists is a name good enough.
[17:10] <elopio> the name of your method is alright. It just should end with an s. directory_existS.
[17:11] <elopio> but you shouldn't write a method if there's no value on it. You are just making an alias for os.path.exists.
[17:11] <om26er> elopio, hmm, ok. I have seen people in well written project not calling the public api twice in their codes, they rather encapsulate the call in a method
[17:11] <om26er> elopio, hmm, sure I can change that back.
[17:13] <elopio> om26er: we don't need to shield ourselfs from the python standard libraries. We don't need to replace them with fakes for testing either.
[17:13] <elopio> encapsulating external projects is good, sometimes. Here I see no reason to do it.
[17:18] <om26er> elopio, ok, I pushed the change. There are older flake8 warnings in the file, want me to do that in this MR or is that better for separate MR ?
[17:19] <elopio> om26er: separate MP, according to a discussion I lost against thomi and veebers.
[17:19] <elopio> om26er: but: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1444170
[17:19] <elopio> if you use the flake8 as a prerequisite of your branch it would be easier, I think.
[19:54] <elopio_> veebers: so, about the presentation for ODS, the idea is to quickly show how easy it is to write a high level integration test with the helpers in the toolkit and unity8.
[19:54] <elopio_> balloons wanted to show the helpers docs published, so the first step was to get the unity8 namespace right.
[19:54] <elopio_> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/unity8/fix1306340-deprecate_emulators/+merge/257812
[19:54] <elopio_> next step is to generate sphinx out of that branch.
[20:07]  * veebers looks at branch
[20:11] <veebers> elopio_: there is more changes in that MP than just deprecating the emulators ;-)
[20:11] <veebers> oh wait, that probably comes from the branches you mention in the message


[13:20] <holstein> anyone sitting around bored and want to help the news team summarize articles ??
[18:22] <BugeyeD> hi all, recommendation requested ... in-laws are currently running 9.10 ... i'm about to take to them a newer computer and want to give them 11.04. how do i best retain their "stuff" ?
[18:22] <BugeyeD> two options are to simply install new and copy over their entire home directories. but i worry that if i don't upgrade in-place their home directory / settings / preferences will not correctly be updated for 11.04 ... anyone?
[18:39] <holstein> BugeyeD: i say, plan for the worst, and do what you think is best
[18:39] <holstein> i would backup the /home, and anything else they might want
[18:39] <holstein> settings wont matter to much, as far as look and feel
[18:39] <holstein> i still *hate* doing an upgrade in place
[18:39] <holstein> takes so long...
[18:39] <holstein> should work fine though
[18:50] <BugeyeD> original plan was a fresh install (new hardware anyway) then copying over the entire home directory. just worried that the upgrade would have made changes to /home that would be missed otherwise.