[03:39] <bookpage> how to make $display be set on a virt?
[03:40] <RAOF> bookpage: export DISPLAY=:0 (or whatever)
[06:21] <didrocks> good morning
[07:12] <diwic> tjaalton, here we go again...the Nvidia kernel module refuses to load :-(
[07:12] <diwic> tjaalton, that is, according to Xorg.0.log
[07:13] <diwic> after latest days update
[07:13] <tjaalton> nouveau loaded?
[07:13] <diwic> tjaalton, seems not to, but I don't remember exactly how to check
[07:13] <tjaalton> lsmod
[07:13] <tjaalton> :)
[07:14] <tjaalton> there should be a blaclist file in /etc/modprobe.d
[07:14] <diwic> tjaalton, according to lsmod, "nvidida" is loaded
[07:14] <tjaalton> installed by nvidia-current
[07:14] <tjaalton> ok, so that's not it
[07:14] <tjaalton> pastebin the log
[07:14] <diwic> of xorg.0.log?
[07:14] <tjaalton> yes
[07:14] <diwic> hmm, how do I easiest do that without X
[07:14] <tjaalton> pastebinit foo
[07:15] <tjaalton> install it first if not
[07:16] <diwic> http://paste.ubuntu.com/701490
[07:16] <hrw> I am going to hate LP build failures. my packages (armel-cross-toolchain-base and armhf-cross-toolchain-base) both ftfbs on launchpad. but when I built them locally in pbuilder or in LP chroot they got built fine. arghhhhhh
[07:17] <tjaalton> diwic: so if you 'stop lightdm; start lightdm' it works ok?
[07:17] <diwic> let me try
[07:17] <tjaalton> the logfile complains about the kernel module, but you said it was loaded
[07:17] <tjaalton> maybe lightdm is too fast
[07:18] <tjaalton> though the x driver should do the loading
[07:18] <diwic> tjaalton, ah, that did it (had to do that in sudo though)
[07:18] <tjaalton> sure
[07:19] <diwic> maybe file a bug against lightdm? Or nvidia-current?
[07:19] <tjaalton> put dmesg on pastebin too, i'll check what it says there
[07:20] <hrw> any ideas how such build failure happens?
[07:21] <infinity> dpkg-source: error: syntax error in eglibc-2.13/debian/control at line 114: duplicate field Multi-Arch found ?
[07:21] <infinity> That's hardly buildd-specific.
[07:22] <diwic> tjaalton, paste.ubuntu.com/701496
[07:22] <hrw> infinity: yes
[07:22] <hrw> infinity: I do not have it in pbuilder or in chroot fetched from LP build farm
[07:23] <hrw> infinity: with exactly same dsc used
[07:24] <tjaalton> diwic: ok, so it start's loading the module at 3.9s, X barfs at 4.4s, and then at 5.1s the loading is complete
[07:24] <tjaalton> an interesting race condition.. maybe a bug in the xserver
[07:24] <infinity> hrw: There's nothing fancy about how we call sbuild in lp-buildd.  Are you sure you're using a clean copy of the chroot from launchpad, and nothing but the build-deps?
[07:25] <tjaalton> diwic: or in the nvidia driver ratherr
[07:25] <tjaalton> -r
[07:25] <infinity> hrw: (You can copy the list of installed packages that sbuild shows in the log, rather than using apt-get source, to be sure)
[07:25] <hrw> infinity: clean it was
[07:26] <hrw> infinity: anyway I will unpack this chroot again, do a step-by-step build and check at failed moment
[07:26] <infinity> hrw: To be honest, I'd rather not have an armhf cross-compiler in oneiric anyway, unless it includes the new loader location, which I'm assuming it doesn't.
[07:27] <hrw> infinity: armel cross fails same way
[07:28] <hrw> infinity: as they share source package source
[07:28] <diwic> tjaalton, ok, let me know if I should file a bug about it and if so against what component
[07:28] <infinity> hrw: Sure, I know.  I'm not saying it's failing on purpose because I don't want it in the archive, just saying I'm not sure I care if it gets fixed (and I'm not sure it should have even been accepted, but it wasn't me who did it).
[07:28] <tjaalton> diwic: ubuntu-bug nvidia-graphics-drivers
[07:29] <tjaalton> diwic: and mention that the x driver is too impatient waiting for the kernel module to load
[07:29] <hrw> infinity: it needs to be fixed cause cross toolchain is not installable now
[07:29] <hrw> infinity: so... ;(
[07:29] <infinity> They were new packages...
[07:29] <infinity> Like, 2 days ago.
[07:29] <infinity> It's just as easy to remove them as to fix them. :P
[07:34] <hrw> infinity: nope - gcc-*-armel-cross ones got built in meantime
[07:38] <diwic> tjaalton, bug 865111
[07:39] <infinity> hrw: Let me reproduce it here.
[07:39] <tjaalton> diwic: thanks, tseliot will take it from there
[07:39] <diwic> tjaalton, ok, thanks for the workaround in the mean time :-)
[07:41] <infinity> hrw: Still, I wish we hadn't accepted this whole lot.  It enabled biarch too, didn't it?  Which we'll probably have to turn off again. :P
[07:41] <infinity> hrw: Oh well.
[07:42] <hrw> infinity: I got multilib toolchain buildable - but need to fix issues while using it
[07:42] <infinity> "Issues" like "the loader for both arches is in the same filesystem location, and ABI-incompatible"?
[07:43] <hrw> infinity: report bug?
[07:43] <infinity> Or like "gcc on ARM is completely missing run-time biarch detection".
[07:44] <infinity> hrw: We have a fix for the former (the loader issue), as discussed and agreed upon at LPC, but it means disabling biarch builds until we fix the latter.
[07:45] <hrw> infinity: link to notes/bugs?
[07:45] <infinity> cross-distro for the LPC notes.
[07:45] <hrw> ok
[07:45] <infinity> I have no bug filed for the broken biarch business.
[07:46] <infinity> But if you'd like to make gcc on ARM work the same as it does on x86, be my guest.
[07:46] <infinity> Right now, while we can do "biarch builds", it's complete BS, cause they don't actually work, at all.
[07:47] <infinity> And I'm not even convinced we need them, but that's a different discussion.
[07:47] <infinity> Cross-compiling soft from hard and hard from soft sounds like an odd corner-case to me, rather than just treating them as completely seperate arches.
[07:48] <infinity> (Usually we want biarch to be able to cross-compile kernels when the kernel arch != host arch, but for ARM, that doesn't matter..)
[07:49] <hrw> so ubuntu/armel is not able to build ubuntu/armhf packages now?
[07:49] <hrw> natively? (I did not checked)
[07:49] <infinity> No.
[07:51] <infinity> Not with multilib, that is.  Obviously, a chroot that's fully-native armhf will work fine (though still has the wrong loader path).
[07:51] <infinity> But, like I said, to fix the loader path, it's either a rewrite of multilib for ARM (which is beyond broken), or disabling it.
[07:52] <infinity> Disabling it is the path of least resistance for now, if we want to actually have an hf port in the next 6 months.
[07:52] <infinity> Unless someone really wants to fix multilib this week.
[07:52] <infinity> (feel free to volunteer)
[07:53] <infinity> hrw: You should probably be in #linaro-armhf ...
[07:53] <hrw> infinity: shit. forgot to add this to autojoinlist
[07:54] <hrw> I am on 16 irc channels ;(
[07:54] <infinity> That's all?
[07:54] <hrw> on 5 networks
[07:55] <hrw> infinity: for 16 years of doing irc I used <10 for all years before canonical/linaro
[07:55] <infinity> Heh.
[07:55] <infinity> IRC channels are cheap, it's a nice way to keep topics focussed.
[07:55] <infinity> Especially in massive communities like Debian and Ubuntu.
[07:56] <infinity> Maemo had similar partioning, and the main channels were just completely silent.  It was a bit creepy.
[07:56] <infinity> partitioning*
[07:57] <infinity> I should probably sleep.  It's 2am.
[07:57] <infinity> hrw: Poke me about your build failure tomorrow if you haven't figured it out.  I'll throw some spare cycles at it.
[07:58] <hrw> infinity: I hope to get it solved today by myself but thanks for offer
[07:58] <infinity> hrw: But we should talk multilib more, if you're interested enough to consider looking at it, and have the resources to allocate.
[07:58] <hrw> infinity: would be nice if multilib bugs would be reported
[07:58] <infinity> hrw: In talking with doko, I thought the "multilib doesn't work on ARM" thing was well-known upstream.
[07:58] <hrw> infinity: arm multilib was done by doko and it's really fishy
[07:59] <infinity> hrw: Hence didn't report anything.
[07:59] <hrw> infinity: upstream did not had multilib for arm iirc
[07:59] <hrw> infinity: only CSL had
[07:59] <infinity> hrw: Well, upstream being Linaro, or whatever.  Not me. :P
[07:59] <hrw> ok
[08:00] <infinity> hrw: Either way, it's completely broken, and would love to actually discuss it sometime, rather than just file a bug and forget about it.  But we can file bugs while we discuss too. :)
[08:01] <infinity> To be fair, it would have "worked" if we'd gone with the crazy "loader auto-detecting HF binaries" route, but that way just looks like madness to me.
[08:01] <infinity> But for the seperate loaders case, it can't work, cause it doesn't select at compiler run-time like x86 does, it's all hardcoded.
[08:01] <infinity> Some serious cargo-culting of x86 multilib would probably work.
[08:43] <ubuntu-baltix> hi all
[08:43] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: hi, are you online?
[08:43] <ev> ubuntu-baltix: yes, hi
[08:44] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: it seems you forgot to update ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu translations from launchpad after translation freeze :(
[08:45] <ev> I updated them on the 28th of September
[08:46] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: but translation freeze was on 29th :)
[08:47] <ev> ubuntu-baltix: I'll stick an upload in the queue, but it's up to the release team to decide if they want to accept it.
[08:48] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: please update ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu, because at 28th september Lithuanian translation was half complete (about 50%), but at 29th - fully translated (100%) :)
[08:49] <ubuntu-baltix> I think it's very important to have fully translated slideshow in release candidate
[08:50] <ev> ubuntu-baltix: I just said I would put an upload of the translations in the queue, but it's not my call as to whether or not it goes in.
[08:51] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: thanks, could you tell me who should decide if accept or not? Maybe pitti ?
[08:52] <ev> ubuntu-baltix: I already did. The release team.
[08:52] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: Where I can talk with release team? ;)
[08:53] <ev>  #ubuntu-release
[08:54] <ubuntu-baltix> ev: thans again :)
[08:54] <ev> sure thing
[12:34] <soren> Did I miss it, or do we not know what 12.04 will be called yet?
[12:36]  * cjwatson has not yet seen a name
[12:36] <cjwatson> sabdfl: ^- getting kind of urgent :)
[12:36] <azeem_> I thought it was going to be the pink panther?
[12:37] <Laney> now that would make a good login sound
[12:37] <seb128> Laney, no login sound is a good login sound ;-)
[12:37] <azeem_> you could just have the first two notes, then the desktop should be there
[12:38] <azeem_> would also remove IP-issues
[12:58] <janimo> seb128, you mean broken pulseaudio :) ?
[13:01] <diwic> janimo, a broken login sound is hardly pulseaudio's fault
[13:01] <diwic> janimo, more likely to have to do with libcanberra or other upper layer
[13:01] <janimo> diwic, is not every sound going through pulse?
[13:01] <seb128> janimo, ;-)
[13:02] <diwic> janimo, usually, yes
[13:03] <diwic> janimo, but playing the login sound involves other components of the audio stack as well and my point is that PulseAudio is every now and then blamed for things incorrectly.
[13:04] <seb128> diwic, speaking of that do you know what would be the right way to have no login sound by default?
[13:04] <seb128> we want to do that next cycle
[13:04] <diwic> seb128, hmm, good question - I assume some kind of override to the gnome sound theme
[13:04] <diwic> seb128, who are "we", btw?
[13:05] <diwic> seb128, I haven't heard that request before.
[13:25] <artfwo> hi
[13:25] <artfwo> do I have to request an FFE in order to sync the package from debian at this stage of development?
[13:26] <sgnb> I hope so
[13:27] <tumbleweed> artfwo: if there are only RC bug fixes, no new features, and it's not seeded, then you can just upload it
[13:28] <artfwo> tumbleweed, i don't have upload rights, but a sync fixes uninstallable package in my case, take a look at bug 865334
[13:30] <om26er> patch pilot is missing :p
[13:31] <tumbleweed> artfwo: LGTM
[13:31] <seb128> om26er, bryceh and micahg are pilots today
[13:31] <seb128> om26er, chrisccoulson is on holidays this week
[13:31] <seb128> om26er, but it's a bit early for bryceh to be up still I guess
[13:31] <tumbleweed> meh, this marking bugs confirmed because they affect multiple uses messes with sync requests...
[13:32] <om26er> seb128, robert_ancell seems to be current thats an error?
[13:32] <seb128> om26er, he probably forgot to sign off
[13:32] <om26er> i'll wait for bryceh to get something re-SRUed
[13:32] <tumbleweed> artfwo: oh, you only mentioned the most recent changelog entry, not the intermediate ones. That would require an FFe
[13:33] <seb128> om26er<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:33] <artfwo> tumbleweed, but the current version in oneiric isn't installable anyway, does that qualify for an FFE as well?
[13:34] <tumbleweed> artfwo: it means I'm very likely to give you a FFe. But you still need to apply for it
[13:34] <om26er> seb128, thx :)
[13:49] <om26er> I have a question related to uploads to archive.. if a release 3.8.16-0ubuntu1~natty3 is rejected for some reason after fixing my branch will the same version upload again work fine? or would it automatically get rejected?
[13:49] <artfwo> tumbleweed, could you take a look at bug 865334 - is there enough data for an exception?
[13:50] <geser> om26er: if the source got rejected you can keep the version number
[13:50] <gtec> hello everyone: I am unclear on the difference between a pxelinux.0 image and a nbi.img. Is it required that etherboot boots a pxelinux.0 image as oppose to a nbi.img?
[13:51] <tumbleweed> artfwo: yes, thanks
[15:41] <tgardner> does anyone know whats up with armel-cross-toolchain-base in Oneiric? You can't install gcc-4.6-arm-linux-gnueabi because of dependency issues. Launchpad thinks armel-cross-toolchain-base was published 2 hours ago.
[15:41] <hrw> tgardner: I know
[15:42] <hrw> tgardner: wait two more days ;(
[15:42] <tgardner> hrw, thats pretty inconvenient at this point in Oneiric development. 2 days ?
[15:43] <apw> hrw what is it doing which takes 2 days?
[15:43] <cjwatson> how long it'll take hrw's fix to build, presumably
[15:43] <cjwatson> "published 2 hours ago" means the source package
[15:43] <hrw> moment
[15:43] <tgardner> Launchpad appears to think the build is done
[15:44] <cjwatson> actually it says pending publication now, so maybe s/2 days/an hour/
[15:44] <hrw> one more source to build - armhf-cross-toolchain-base (got uploaded just moment ago, need to be accepted), then rebuild of gcc-4.[56]-armel-cross (ftfbs-ed because of armel-cross-toolchain-base failure)
[15:44] <cjwatson> oh, it's in NEW
[15:45] <hrw> I had some linaro tasks to do which had higher priority.
[15:47] <cjwatson> processed now, so next publisher run I suppose
[15:47] <hrw> thank you
[15:47] <tgardner> cjwatson, thanks, will give it a go in an hour or so
[15:48] <bdmurray> Could somebody look at bug 859188?  Its not clear to me what might be going on here.
[15:49] <hrw> for p-cycle I will move to 'publish to ppa first' method - as LP builds are not reproductible even with chroots from LP
[15:49] <slangasek> bdmurray: confusing error message; to apt-get install --reinstall a multiarch: same package that you have more than one version of installed, you have to do "apt-get install --reinstall $pkg $pkg:$otherarch", or else you get that error
[15:50] <hrw> or I am doing something wrong
[15:51] <bdmurray> slangasek: so they have installed for i386 and amd64?
[15:51] <slangasek> bdmurray: yes
[15:52] <cjwatson> hrw: well - I do have to say, most people with this problem are doing something wrong, or very few of us would ever get anything done!
[15:52] <cjwatson> mind you if your build is *that* sensitive to details of the chroot then there's probably something wrong there too
[15:53] <cjwatson> occasionally there's something that depends on the running kernel, which in the case of LP builds is rather older than the distribution it's building for
[15:53] <hrw> cjwatson: I fetched chroot from LP and got it built in it.
[15:53] <hrw> cjwatson: I will try to find time in p-cycle to check some issues
[15:54] <didrocks> can someone bump the unity build in the ubuntu-destkop ppa (to prepare some testing for an eventual tomorrow upload with those fixes + few additional ones): https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
[16:13] <SpamapS> barry: is there any progress on porting dh_python2 to lucid?
[16:14] <didrocks> barry: thanks for the Quickly fix btw :)
[16:54] <barry> SpamapS: doko_ is working on that
[16:56] <SpamapS> barry: ahh cool thanks
[16:56] <SpamapS> doko_: and I ask you, how is the dh_python2 port to lucid coming along? :)
[16:59] <bdmurray> slangasek: Do you have any thoughts on bug 813065?
[18:20] <bryceh> !pilot in
[18:20] <bryceh> @pilot in
[18:20] <om26er> bryceh, can you please sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/natty/unity/unity-fix-761409 :)
[18:21] <om26er> bryceh,  you sponsored it last time but seems there was an issue at your end last time so the upload got rejected :/
[18:23] <om26er> here is the changelog of the rejected upload http://launchpadlibrarian.net/79155358/unity_3.8.16-0ubuntu1~natty2_3.8.16-0ubuntu1~natty3.diff.gz
[18:30] <bryceh> om26er, what was the issue at my end?
[18:31] <om26er> bryceh, the changelog also have --- unity-3.8.16.orig/.bzrignore.THIS
[18:31] <om26er> +++ unity-3.8.16/.bzrignore.THIS
[18:31] <om26er> the one that was uploaded to the archives my branch did not have it
[18:31] <om26er> though i am not sure how things work
[18:34] <bryceh> ok
[18:36] <bryceh> om26er, done
[18:36] <om26er> bryceh, thank you :-)
[18:43] <infinity> jamespage: Your nova changelog doesn't even remotely match the diff.
[18:54] <jamespage> infinity: how so?
[18:55] <infinity> jamespage: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81802657/nova_2011.3-0ubuntu4_2011.3-0ubuntu5.diff.gz
[18:55]  * jamespage re-reads his changelog entry
[18:55] <infinity> jamespage: I see the permission bits in postinst... And then a ton of other stuff.
[18:56] <jamespage> infinity: I see - looks like the packaging branch was probably not up-to-date
[18:58] <infinity> Right, well.  I'm going to reject this, if you'd like to re-upload with just the postinst fix. ;)
[18:58] <jamespage> infinity, absolutely
[19:21] <jamespage> infinity: somethings not right - it looks like older patches where included in the upload to the archive
[19:21] <jamespage> can't find zul at the moment but it needs verification/unpicking
[19:33] <infinity> jamespage: You can just make your postinst change to the archive version?
[19:38] <jamespage> infinity: well I could but I'm concerned that we have an incorrect backported patch - I'd like to get that resolved/verified as OK as well
[19:40] <infinity> jamespage: Fair enough.
[19:56] <dobey> is anyone else having booting/network issues with current oneiric?
[19:56] <dobey> because i have two laptops that are now pretty much entirely useless after updating them within the last 24 hours :(
[19:59] <dobey> SpamapS: did you break my laptops?
[20:05] <SpamapS> dobey: probably ;)
[20:06] <SpamapS> dobey: whats the issue?
[20:06] <SpamapS> dobey: do they say waiting for network configuration?
 in normal boot the splash works fine, it just says "Waiting for network..."
[20:08] <seb128> SpamapS, ^
[20:08] <seb128> SpamapS, he said that it never finishes waiting
[20:08] <bdmurray> @pilot in
[20:09] <SpamapS> I may have created a huge red herring with that message...
[20:09] <dobey> SpamapS: yes
[20:09] <SpamapS> the problem is I can't *hide* it when its completed.
[20:09] <dobey> SpamapS: my dell duo doesn't boot now
[20:10] <dobey> it stays waiting for network
[20:10] <SpamapS> dobey: can you boot with noquiet and --verbose ?
[20:10] <dobey> my u820 boots but has other issues
[20:10] <SpamapS> dobey: it never says Waiting at least 60 more seconds ?
[20:10] <dobey> SpamapS: i don't know. can you be more verbose about where to add them?
[20:10] <dobey> SpamapS: it does say that
[20:10] <dobey> SpamapS: it just doesn't ever finish waiting
[20:10] <SpamapS> dobey: does it ever say that its booting with an incomplete configuration?
[20:11] <SpamapS> dobey: the process that is used for those messages is really failsafe.. unless /bin/sleep segfaults or something.
[20:11] <dobey> SpamapS: i'll let you know in a couple minutes
[20:11] <SpamapS> dobey: so if you see the first two, but not the third, then something is breaking *after* those messages are long dead and gone.
[20:11] <dobey> oh ffs; now it's doing fsck
[20:12] <dobey> SpamapS: seems like it is breaking long before, since i shouldn't ever see those messages
[20:12]  * SpamapS ponders adding a post-start to clear the messages
[20:13] <SpamapS> dobey: you'll see them if your loopback adapter isn't up for some reason, or if you have interfaces configured in /etc/network/interfaces
[20:13] <dobey> waiting up to 60 moar now
[20:13] <dobey> SpamapS: and neither of those should be true unless an update broke something
[20:13] <dobey> and well, i think it's obvious an update broke something
[20:14] <SpamapS> dobey: as far as the noquiet/--verbose .. edit the grub kernel command line and remove 'quiet' , and add '--verbose'
[20:14] <dobey> booting without full config
[20:15] <dobey> except it is a message wrought with lies
[20:15] <dobey> as evidenced by the lack of actual booting
[20:15] <SpamapS> dobey: ok, so it should boot now.. unless lightdm or plymouth is broken
[20:17] <SpamapS> dobey: ctrl-alt-f1 should also get you a tty to login to
[20:17] <dobey> SpamapS: what should i see with noquiet --verbose ?
[20:17] <dobey> SpamapS: nope, it just had the textual output of the init scripts
[20:17] <SpamapS> dobey: kernel messages, services starting..
[20:18] <SpamapS> dobey: what was the last thing shown?
[20:18] <SpamapS> alt-f2 might actually be better, it starts on runlevel [23] ..
[20:18] <dobey> it's still waiting for the network
[20:19] <SpamapS> dobey: before those messages that you already saw in plymouth.. anything else?
[20:19] <dobey> stopping failsafe boot delay was the last thing
[20:20] <dobey> lo is the only thing in /etc/network/interfaces
[20:20] <SpamapS> Interesting
[20:20] <dobey> and i have no network connection
[20:21] <SpamapS> ls -l /run/network
[20:21] <SpamapS> should be a dir, 'static-network-up-emitted'
[20:21] <dobey> that exists
[20:22] <SpamapS> I'm most intrigued why your system hasn't "booted" at this point, because you are clearly in runlevel 2 if you have a login on tty2
[20:22] <SpamapS> can you look for clues in /var/log/syslog? Maybe the display manager failed to start
[20:22] <SpamapS> dobey: at the point that dir exists, and when your filesystems are up, thats when runlevel 2 should have started and the messages should have stopped.
[20:23] <SpamapS> hmm I wonder though.. /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart creates that dir, and then runs initctl emit
[20:25] <dobey> well running /etc/init.d/lightdm restart got me a login screen and i can log into unity now
[20:26] <dobey> but no network or bluetooth
[20:26] <SpamapS> btw, /etc/init.d/<anything> is deprecated in Ubuntu
[20:26] <SpamapS> use service
[20:26] <dobey> i did use service, and it didn't work
[20:26] <SpamapS> because?
[20:26] <kenvandine> restart lightdm
[20:26] <kenvandine> is all you need
[20:26] <SpamapS> kenvandine: and is very dangerous
[20:26] <kenvandine> oh?
[20:26] <dobey> it said "not found" or something like that
[20:26] <SpamapS> kenvandine: it doesn't reload the upstart job.. and does not properly run pre-stop's
[20:27] <bdmurray> SpamapS: speaking of service how do you know what services names are avaiable?  I get confused about samba vs smbd ...
[20:27] <SpamapS> use service. :)
[20:27] <kenvandine> oh... i thought it was an upstart command
[20:27] <dobey> SpamapS: the deprecated message says to use restart
[20:27] <dobey> not service
[20:27] <dobey> maybe you should fix that :)
[20:27] <seb128> sudo restart lightdm often fails there
[20:27] <seb128> it says there is no lightdm runnin
[20:27] <SpamapS> bdmurray: unfortunately, that one is still unresolved in a single tool. 'initctl list' for upstart jobs, find /etc/init.d -type f  works for sysvinit
[20:27] <seb128> where it's running ;-)
[20:28] <SpamapS> yeah the deprecated message should be fixed
[20:28] <dobey> anyway
[20:28] <dobey> my laptops are broken
[20:28] <bdmurray> SpamapS: thanks initctl was what I was missing
[20:28] <hallyn_> Daviey: jdstrand: bug 842845 , final debdiff pulls a bunch of patches from upstream git.  Pls take a look.  It appears to solve the issue, and I think it should go into oneiric.
[20:28] <hallyn_> running out, biack in a bit
[20:28] <SpamapS> dobey: indeed, trying to determine why lightdm didn't start
[20:29] <SpamapS> dobey: --verbose would give us a clue. can you boot with that?
[20:29] <dobey> "unknown instance"
[20:29] <dobey> i did boot with that
[20:29] <dobey> where is it supposed to give a clue at? i didn't see any
[20:29] <SpamapS> right, restart doesn't work when it was never started, thats another annoyance.
[20:30] <SpamapS> dobey: /var/log/syslog would have any errors about lightdm
[20:30] <SpamapS> its possible that it didn't exit with any "errors" it just decided not to start.
[20:30] <SpamapS> but that would be odd
[20:32] <dobey> i think i need to reboot
[20:32] <SpamapS> dobey: anything in /var/log/syslog ?
[20:32] <dobey> some stuff but i can't tell if it's from me doing restart or from booting
[20:33] <SpamapS> dobey: you can match up the timestamps with the switch to runlevel 2
[20:34] <dobey> SpamapS: it appears something is stopping it, and then killing it with SIGTERM
[20:35] <dobey> last lightdm related message is "lightdm state changed from post-stop to waiting"
[20:40] <slangasek> bdmurray: 813065> I think I'll try to reproduce that; it might be an easy win for release
[20:40] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay, I was able to see it in a virtual machine fwiw
[20:43] <SpamapS> dobey: brb, need to go move laundry from washer to dryer..
[20:43] <SpamapS> dobey: have you tried rebooting w/ --verbose yet?
[20:45] <slangasek> bdmurray: does "VT console" mean a login prompt, a blinking cursor, or a black screen?
[20:45] <slangasek> (just to be sure I know what I'm looking for)
[20:46] <bdmurray> slangasek: none of the above - I saw boot log messages
[20:46] <dobey> SpamapS: yes, but i can't see anything useful. something is telling lightdm to start, then stop, then it kills lightdm
[20:46] <slangasek> bdmurray: aha
[20:49] <slangasek> bdmurray: oh; this bug is for lucid, not for oneiric?
[20:50] <bdmurray> slangasek: its tagged oneiric too and thats what I tested
[20:50] <slangasek> ok
[21:04] <SpamapS> dobey: very intersting. I don't see any direct reasons that lightdm would be sent SIGTERM by upstart... it only stops on runlevel [016] .. none of those are happenign surely.
[21:05] <dobey> isn't that "poweroff" ?
[21:05] <SpamapS> 0 is halt/poweroff
[21:06] <SpamapS> 6 is reboot
[21:06] <SpamapS> dobey: something could be doing a 'stop lightdm' tho
[21:06] <SpamapS> it does a stop in its own script..but then exit 0 right after that.
[21:07] <SpamapS> dobey: does this return 0:
[21:07] <SpamapS> [ ! -f /etc/X11/default-display-manager -o "$(cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager 2>/dev/null)" = "/usr/bin/lightdm" -o "$(cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager 2>/dev/null)" = "/usr/sbin/lightdm" ]
[21:07] <dobey> right
[21:07] <dobey> wtf
[21:07] <SpamapS> actually hmmmmmmmmmm
[21:07] <dobey> that's a lot of typing :(
[21:07] <SpamapS> if [ "$RUNLEVEL" = S
[21:08] <SpamapS> I think that may be a misuse of the RUNLEVEL variable
[21:08] <dobey> in lightdm's init script?
[21:08] <SpamapS> yeah
[21:09] <SpamapS> the script was recently changed to simplify with less ()'s.. I wonder..
[21:09] <dobey> waoh
[21:09] <dobey> woah even
[21:09] <dobey> somehow i got network

[21:17] <SpamapS> dobey: I think this may be it.. if one of the other events comes *after* runlevel 2 ... RUNLEVEL is still "S"
[21:17] <dobey> meh, update/reconfigure didn't help
[21:17] <SpamapS> dobey: no I think you have found a bonified, majorly crap race condition
[21:17] <infinity> jamespage: Err, did you re-upload the same broken one again?
[21:17] <dobey> SpamapS: how can we fix?
[21:18] <SpamapS> we need to check with the actual runlevel command, I think
[21:18] <SpamapS> I have a working test case which shows the problem
[21:18] <SpamapS> dobey: if I give you a replacement lightdm.conf, can you try it out?
[21:19] <SpamapS> I'm trying it in a VM now
[21:19] <dobey> SpamapS: give me a diff
[21:19] <dobey> SpamapS: then i can just change it, since i can't easily just copy stuff over
[21:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: I don't understand where the race condition is, can you explain?
[21:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: sure, RUNLEVEL is set only when the 'runlevel' event arrives
[21:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: but it may have been set by some other event that arrived before 'runlevel'
[21:20] <slangasek> really?
[21:20] <slangasek> which event would set it?
[21:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: Yeah, thats my hypothesis
[21:20] <SpamapS> I'm testing it out now :-P
[21:20] <slangasek> ok :)
[21:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: no idea!
[21:21] <SpamapS> slangasek: nothing exports it except /etc/init/rc.conf
[21:21]  * slangasek nods
[21:21] <SpamapS> slangasek: one theory I also have is that there's a bug in upstart which copies it in even when it doesn't match
[21:22] <SpamapS> slangasek: either way, it seems the most likely cause for dobey's problems that RUNLEVEL is coming up as "S" instead of "2" during lightdm's script
[21:23] <SpamapS> tho.. there's another problem with that, which is that he's seeing the failsafe messages.. hrm
[21:24] <dobey> this is but one of the many problems i am currently facing with oneiric :-/
[21:25] <slangasek> SpamapS: seems strange that only dobey would be affected
[21:25] <dobey> that's what i said
[21:25] <slangasek> SpamapS, dobey: you've already ruled out /etc/X11/default-display-manager as the cause?
[21:26] <slangasek> oh
[21:26] <jamespage> infinity: no
[21:26] <dobey> i haven't ruled anything out as the cause. but i really have no idea what is going on at this point
[21:26] <slangasek> runlevel [!06]
[21:26] <slangasek> SpamapS: why is that not runlevel [!06S]?
[21:26] <slangasek> or even [!016S]
[21:27] <slangasek> apparently we're using lightdm to handle stopping of plymouth in runlevels 1,S ? that doesn't make sense...
[21:27] <slangasek> (what if you don't have lightdm installed, after all?)
[21:28] <SpamapS> slangasek: oo I didn't realize.. [!06] is *wrong*
[21:28] <infinity> jamespage: Well, it came back to the queue 28 minutes ago. :P
[21:28] <dobey> where is that?
[21:28] <SpamapS> slangasek: is 'runlevel S' emitted at bootup?
[21:28]  * infinity rejects harder.
[21:28]  * SpamapS tests that
[21:28] <jamespage> zul and I are like ships in the night this evening
[21:28] <slangasek> SpamapS: well, it's deliberate... I'm not sure that changing it in the obvious way is *right* either
[21:29] <slangasek> SpamapS: no, only 'telinit S' gets you runlevel S, by design
[21:29] <slangasek> otherwise /etc/init/rcS.conf would fire on every boot
[21:30] <slangasek> dobey: could you post the log from booting with --verbose?
[21:31] <dobey> i suspect not easily
[21:32] <SpamapS> slangasek: I thought rcS.d *was* executed every time the system booted. :-P
[21:33] <slangasek> SpamapS: running sulogin? :)
[21:34] <slangasek> dobey: if you have networking up, perhaps pastebinit is of use?
[21:35] <dobey> well i'm guessing the log doesn't rotate on every boot
[21:35] <dobey> what block would be most useful?
[21:36] <SpamapS> dobey: I'd be interested to compare the output of 'last' with 'grep init: /var/log/syslog'
[21:36] <slangasek> dobey: I'd want everything logged by init since boot
[21:37] <SpamapS> dobey: also the long line in /etc/init/lightdm.conf right after 'if [ -n "$UPSTART_EVENTS" ]'
[21:38] <SpamapS> dobey: actually just cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager would be helpful
[21:39]  * SpamapS goes afk again for 5 min
[21:39] <dobey> default-display-manager just says "lightdm"
[21:42] <slangasek> dobey: and just to be sure, what does 'debsums -s -e lightdm' show?
[21:42] <dobey> what provides debsums?
[21:42] <slangasek> the debsums package :)
[21:43] <dobey> good thing network decided to actually start working
[21:43] <dobey> too bad it doesn't on my other laptop
[21:44] <dobey> changed file /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[21:44] <bigon> mmmh I hava valac (0.12) that segfault when building https://edge.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+build/2820433
[21:44] <bigon> with debian version it build perfectly
[21:45] <slangasek> dobey: "changed file" - did you change it as part of the debugging, or was it already broken and that's what's causing your failures?
[21:45] <slangasek> dobey: you should have an /etc/init/lightdm.conf.dpkg-dist that you can compare with... and in theory replace with to get the system working again...
[21:46] <dobey> slangasek: that file was already changed, and doesn't seem like it would be related
[21:46] <dobey> slangasek: wrong lightdm.conf
[21:46] <slangasek> oh, right
[21:46] <slangasek> sorry
[21:46] <dobey> and i actually have no idea why it's different from the packaged version
[21:48] <slangasek> I think that one might get dynamically modified by lightdm itself
[21:49] <slangasek> (means conffiles are the wrong tool for it, but anyway - not relevant here)
[21:49] <dobey> right
[21:50] <dobey> where should i put this log?
[21:50] <slangasek> dobey: in a bug report / pastebin / people.c.c?
[21:52] <dobey> slangasek: https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~dobey/syslog.verbose

[21:55] <SpamapS> slangasek: it strikes me that calling 'stop' in the script section may not be a good idea
[21:55] <SpamapS> slangasek: exit 0 should suffice...
[21:56] <slangasek> SpamapS: 'stop' is preferred
[21:56] <SpamapS> slangasek: in this case, stop would cause upstart to send SIGTERM.. would it not?
[21:56] <slangasek> maybe it's triggering a bug here, but it's a bug to be fixed if so
[21:56] <dobey> well i need to go for now; thanks for helping debug
[21:56] <slangasek> SpamapS: SIGsomething, sure; but the event's already received and processed by that point, so it shouldn't hurt?
[21:57] <dobey> let me know if i need to test anything, my awaylog will catch it
[21:57] <SpamapS> slangasek: it shouldn't, no.
[21:58] <slangasek> dobey: does this system have hybrid graphics?
[21:58] <SpamapS> wait
[21:58] <SpamapS> 14:39 < dobey> default-display-manager just says "lightdm"
[21:59] <SpamapS> dobey: not /usr/bin/lightdm or /usr/sbin/lightdm ?
[21:59] <slangasek> ah, heh
[21:59] <SpamapS> that *would* do it
[22:03] <bdmurray> I'm looking at a pytrainer bug regarding communicating with gpsbabel and gpsbabel uses a 'usb:' parameter to communicate with the gps.  Anyway what device is 'usb:' so I can change permissions on it?
[22:04] <slangasek> bdmurray: probably something under /dev/bus/usb
[22:05] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, a way to check occurred to me
[22:06] <slangasek> depending on how the device name is being constructed, there's probably something under /sys/bus/usb/devices that lets you query the mapping I guess
[22:09] <cjwatson> bdmurray: how do you know which services are available> 'service ' <tab> <tab>
[22:23] <SpamapS> slangasek: my laptop is affected too
[22:23] <SpamapS> lightdm is waiting for 'plymouth deactivate'
[22:24] <SpamapS> also the stop signal is being ignored in the pre-start for failsafe...
[22:24] <slangasek> SpamapS: "too"?  isn't that an entirely different issue?
[22:24] <SpamapS> slangasek: my symptoms are identical to dobey
[22:24] <SpamapS> I almost never reboot.. so when I did just now.. no lightdm
[22:24] <slangasek> SpamapS: stop signal> ah yes, did you not see the bug I reported about that/
[22:24] <SpamapS> slangasek: no I didn't see that bug.
[22:25] <SpamapS> slangasek: do we need to set some handler to die quicker?
[22:25] <slangasek> SpamapS: one sec, I'll assign it to you ;)
[22:25] <slangasek> SpamapS: bug #863864
[22:25] <SpamapS> anyway, lightdm is waiting on plymouth deactivate.. which is polling an "anon_inode"
[22:26] <slangasek> strange...
[22:27] <slangasek> I haven't seen this in any of my testing
[22:27] <slangasek> can you file a plymouth bug?
[22:27] <slangasek> also, please boot with plymouth:debug=file:/var/log/plymouth-debug.log and attach
[22:27] <SpamapS> slangasek: sure.. anything I can do to debug immediately?
[22:28] <slangasek> debug or unstick?
[22:28] <slangasek> debugging, I think you need to boot with plymouth debugging on
[22:28] <slangasek> unstick, I'd try stop lightdm ; plymouth quit; start lightdm
[22:28] <slangasek> (from tty2, say)
[22:29] <SpamapS> is it possible failsafe's plymouth tickling is causing plymouth deactivate to not work?
[22:29] <slangasek> I don't believe so
[22:29] <slangasek> ok - it's *possible*
[22:29] <slangasek> but that's a plymouth bug if so
[22:32] <SpamapS> hrm.. does stop not actually tell pre-start's to exit?
[22:32] <slangasek> correct
[22:32] <SpamapS> Garhhh.. ok.. poor assumption there.
[22:32] <slangasek> it changes the goal for the job, but does not kill a running process
[22:32] <slangasek> not a running pre-start, that is
[22:32] <slangasek> it waits for that to end on its own
[22:33] <SpamapS> ok, so does that mean I need to change it to a task and change the rc-sysinit to 'stopped failsafe' ? thats kind of the mechanics I was looking for, but its not as clear in rc-sysinit
[22:34] <SpamapS> that or I have to check runlevel before every plymouth message
[22:35] <SpamapS> oh wait I can check my status with status
[22:37] <slangasek> SpamapS: that's my suggestion in the bug report - completely untested though
[22:37] <slangasek> checking with status - yuck :)
[22:38] <SpamapS> I suppose I should switch back to X from console and read your suggestion
[22:56] <SpamapS> slangasek: so I think 'stopped failsafe' should be fine, rather than an explicit event... is this acceptible as a fix for 11.10 ?
[22:59] <slangasek> SpamapS: 'stopped failsafe' would cause /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf to fire *twice*, unless you somehow made it a conditional 'stopped'
[23:00] <SpamapS> slangasek: twice?
[23:00] <SpamapS> slangasek: failsafe would only start at boot, no?
[23:01] <slangasek> SpamapS: the failsafe job is always going to stop, the question is whether it stops due to timeout or because it's killed.  so rc-sysinit is "start on (filesystem and static-network-up) or started failsafe"; if you change "started" to "stopped" at the same time you move the bulk of its functionality into 'script', on a successful startup you will *always* match both parts of that 'or'
[23:01] <SpamapS> slangasek: ahh right
[23:01] <slangasek> hence, needing an explicit event instead of 'stopped'
[23:09] <SpamapS> slangasek: ok, simple diff, and it fixes the problem with lightdm waiting on plymouth deactivate too
[23:10] <slangasek> wait, what?  how does it fix that?
[23:10] <SpamapS> ????
[23:10] <SpamapS> I had it happen 3 times in a row before this fix
[23:11] <SpamapS> slangasek: my guess.. plymouth waits for some socket to be closed which is held open by 'plymouth message' ?
[23:11] <slangasek> 'plymouth message' is one shot, should return immediately
[23:11] <slangasek> I mean, the execution of that script wouldn't work correctly if it didn't
[23:12] <SpamapS> slangasek: I think this is more important than "Medium" .. I noticed on my other more pure oneiric laptop that I saw Waiting for network configuration ... once just before lightdm popped up...
[23:12] <slangasek> yeah, I was going to raise the severity but hadn't gotten 'roundtuit yet
[23:12] <slangasek> (after realizing the implications on boot, not just shutdown)
[23:12] <SpamapS> ok, how about I raise it, and upload this diff which is relatively small, but probably needs serious scruitiny
[23:14] <slangasek> SpamapS: sounds good to me
[23:16] <bdmurray> What's the right status for a merge that shouldn't happen? A typo fix in the debian control file of a package we sync.
[23:16] <SpamapS> Needs Fixing in the comment, and Work in Progress for the MP
[23:17] <bdmurray> Work in Progress seems like a bad fit
[23:17] <slangasek> well, the right way is 'rejected'
[23:17] <slangasek> but I think there might still be a bug where only the TB can reject merge proposals for ubuntu-branches?
[23:17] <SpamapS> I always feel like if its fixable easily, then Work in Progress is appropriate.. it means its the owner's problem
[23:17] <slangasek> (whereas it should be "anyone who can upload")
[23:18] <slangasek> SpamapS: this is "this should not be merged because it should be done in Debian instead"
[23:18] <slangasek> so "rejected" is correct... if you can get to it
[23:18] <bdmurray> which I can't
[23:18] <SpamapS> Oh I misread the point of the question
[23:19] <TheMuso> 3~/c
[23:19] <hallyn_> Daviey: hey are you there?
[23:21] <hallyn_> Daviey: d'oh, you never pushed http://people.canonical.com/~serge/ipxe-bin.debdiff . (I forgot about it and forgot to check and prod :)
[23:21] <hallyn_> Daviey: it's needed in o
[23:28] <SpamapS> slangasek: uploaded
[23:28] <SpamapS> whoa and just as I hit enter on emit, one of my tests fails .. second upload pending.. damnit
[23:29]  * SpamapS vows to starve his fingers till they lose another ring size
[23:30] <SpamapS> slangasek: want to reject that upload?
[23:31] <SpamapS> actually I rejected it
[23:36] <slangasek> SpamapS: hum, as long as we're uploading upstart, I think I'd like to fix up the various manpage bugs at the same time
[23:36] <slangasek> (undocumented events)
[23:37] <SpamapS> slangasek: ok, I'll backout my debcommit --release..
[23:38] <SpamapS> slangasek: ok my change is in there as r1331
[23:38] <slangasek> SpamapS: cheers


[03:49] <piyushmishra> hello can anyone tell me how can I import gmail contacts to ubuntuone?
[15:12] <rendark> hi there. my rhythmbox /ubuntuone music store download is queued since 24 hours. can anybody help?
[15:18] <mkarnicki> honk (rendark ^)
[15:18] <suprengr> rendark: although not marked as 'outage' [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Status] there has been probs - particulary downloads - trya question on #ubuntuone perhaps
[15:18] <mkarnicki> suprengr: this is #ubuntuone ..
[15:19] <suprengr> mkarnicki:  whoops! :$ ... i meant #ubuntu [doh!]
[15:20] <mkarnicki> suprengr: ;) still, I think it's better to wait here for answer, it's u1 specific, right?
[15:20] <mkarnicki> *wait == comeback when someone has called rendark's name
[15:21] <rendark> hi mkarnicki & suprengr. well status page says general services and files service and music store is ok...
[15:23] <rendark> i already checked my cloud via weblogin, but the mp3 file isn't there. i've got receipt and paypal confirmation...
[15:24] <mkarnicki> rendark: you'll get your answer here, but I'm afraid there may be little ppl to help on Sunday. all in all, someone should eventually call your name.
[15:25] <rendark> mkarnicky: thx for the info. okidoki. i'll wait a bit :)
[15:26] <mkarnicki> rendark: I honk'ed, so I hope your question will be visible. Don't wait, as it may take time. Just leave your irc session open. If there's an answer, some1 will call your name. If not, come back tomorrow, there will be more ppl around.
[17:26] <mkarnicki> does U1 handle connections on ports other than 433 (SSL) ?
[17:26] <mkarnicki> I think not, right?
[17:33] <mkarnicki> I get timeoutson port 10000 so probably not ;d
[18:52] <mkarnicki> ok TLS on 443 works


[00:02] <IdleOne> maco: hope I did justice to your session
[00:03] <IdleOne> and thanks folks for guilting me into doing the session
[00:03] <pleia2> hehe
[00:03] <IdleOne> I had fun :)
[00:03] <pleia2> thanks for doing it, IdleOne :)
[00:03] <pleia2> yay
[00:03] <paaultag> IdleOne, you rocked
[00:03] <paaultag> IdleOne, great job
[00:03] <IdleOne> thank you
[05:27] <nigelb> IdleOne: it was awesome
[05:27] <nigelb> aren't you glad you got that chance?
[05:29] <IdleOne> nigelb: absolutely and thank you :)
[05:30] <nigelb> heh
[05:40] <nigelb> Ok, now I'm getting scared
[05:40] <nigelb> The ubuntu hour that I was organizing just got 8 participants signing up
[06:00] <IdleOne> why scared?
[06:00] <nigelb> its getting bigger
[06:00] <nigelb> finding a place is going to be a bit tough
[06:01] <IdleOne> ubuntu hour and link was talked about at cyphermox's session. well the end of the session. I guess there was a few users in your area who followed the link and found you :)
[06:01] <nigelb> ahhh
[06:01] <nigelb> that explains that
[06:01] <IdleOne> it's one hour, meet at a pub or restaurant :)
[06:01] <IdleOne> library?
[06:02] <nigelb> are you sure it was ubuntu hour that was talked about and not developer week?
[06:02] <nigelb> we're meeting at a coffee shop probably
[06:03] <IdleOne> yup absolutely, I mentioned it to cyphermox that we should meet up and sebsebseb asked what ubuntu hour was and link was posted and there ya go
[06:04] <IdleOne> coffee shops are good places.
[06:06] <nigelb> aha, in -chat
[08:30] <AlanBell> maco doctormo in the vine image isn't ubuntu generally with a lower case u in that font and context?
[08:31] <nigelb> AlanBell: thanks for the wonderful talk yesterday :)
[08:31]  * nigelb should write a blog post but is procrastinating
[08:31] <AlanBell> it was quite fun to do
[08:32] <nigelb> I think we had a very good crowd around this time
[08:32] <AlanBell> maco doctormo and I have only just spotted the Debian logo in it! genius!
[08:32] <nigelb> Shows how many new people are using Ubuntu and want some beginner lessons
[08:36] <nigelb> qense: heya! excited about the match?
[08:36] <qense> nigelb: hello! Nah, a bit, but I'm not that into football. :)
[08:36] <nigelb> get octopus recipies ready just in case :p
[08:37] <qense> others will do that for me
[08:37] <nigelb> LOL
[08:37] <qense> although the Spanish are much better in cooking octopus
[08:37] <qense> nigelb: Expect the Netherlands to be unreachable until Wednesday morning.
[08:37] <nigelb> haha
[08:38] <nigelb> Spain too I suppose
[08:38] <qense> nigelb: The football team's airplane will be guided by two F-16s (one orange) from the Royal Netherlands Airforce when they enter Dutch airspace.
[08:38] <qense> nigelb: Not all Spanish support the Spanish national football team.
[08:38] <nigelb> wow
[08:38] <nigelb> they're heros whether they win or lose
[08:39] <nigelb> they've gone further than any duth team
[08:39] <nigelb> *dutch
[08:39] <qense> nigelb: Not true: 1974 and 1978! :)
[08:39] <nigelb> gah
[08:39] <nigelb> I'll never get my football stats right
[08:40] <qense> The F-16 thing will happen Monday. Tuesday they will be flown by an army helicopter from The Hague to Amsterdam where they will be celebrated. If they win there will be a boat tour through the canals as well.
[08:40] <qense> The game is at 20:30 Dutch time, but the broadcaster starts broadcasting about it at 12:10.
[08:40] <nigelb> whoa
[08:41] <qense> That is, next to all the time everyone and your bird (and the octopus) have been talking about it on television for the last few weeks.
[08:41] <qense> Mannie the Parakeet said the Netherlands will win!
[08:42] <nigelb> aha!
[11:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:04] <qense> hi czajkowski
[12:05] <qense> czajkowski: We've proposed the new forum setup to the moderators of the Ubuntu NL forums (to not decide something about the forums without their consent (most of them weren't at the meeting)). The opening of Ubuntu NL's communication is nearing.
[12:06] <qense> czajkowski: One shocking thing (to me at least): the relatively large amount of team members/moderators who said: "But I've always thought Ubuntu NL = forum!".
[12:06] <czajkowski> qense: so thye just need to be more educated on the wider ubuntu community
[12:06] <qense> czajkowski: Yes, and that is what I'm supposed to do.
[12:07] <qense> I'll start posting some stuff after the opening is done.
[12:07] <czajkowski> qense: so what mght be an idea is to invite them to the Ubuntu Health Check and we can add a topic - like Introcution to the wider Ubuntu community
[12:07] <qense> czajkowski: Most of them don't like IRC, it's too technical. But I could see, some of them might like it.
[12:08] <qense> czajkowski: That's also why some refuse to come to the IRC meetings.
[12:08] <czajkowski> qense: aye , well we can put it on the agenda and if folks turn up great, if not we'll still discuss it and then we can post it to the mailing list
[12:09] <qense> czajkowski: loco-contacts? That would mean I'd be communicating it to the rest of the LoCo since not many people are on that list. But that doesn't matter. It is still a good thing to do. I'll translate it and post it on the forums.
[12:10] <czajkowski> qense: I also blog it and link to the minutes of it
[12:10] <czajkowski> and the wiki will be updated
[12:10] <qense> good
[12:10] <czajkowski> just a idea mind, I'm still not fully awake and cooking here
[12:11] <qense> That would be a good opportunity to educate them about the wiki.
[12:11] <czajkowski> qense: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck
[12:11] <czajkowski> add a topic
[12:11] <qense> czajkowski: OK, then I'll shut up now! Have a nice brunch! :)
[12:11] <qense> will do
[12:11] <czajkowski> qense: I'll be in and out today but if you need anything else just ask
[12:11] <qense> czajkowski: Thank you very much. You and Paul have been very supportive.
[12:13] <czajkowski> qense: no bother, tis what we're here for.
[12:45] <qense> Lunch time, shutting down to let it cool off a bit here.
[13:00] <nigelb> aloha czajkowski
[14:24] <maco> AlanBell: the debian swirl's been there from the start :P
[14:25] <AlanBell> yeah, but I only realised what it was when I saw it repeated
[22:06] <qense> England will burn. Expect a raid of angry supporters any minute now.
[22:07] <czajkowski> qense: *hugs*
[22:07] <qense> czajkowski: You're Irish! Join us!
[22:08]  * czajkowski is half English
[22:08] <qense> czajkowski: And Polish!
[22:08] <czajkowski> only a little bit
[22:08] <czajkowski> just in name
[22:08] <qense> :)
[22:09] <qense> There were expected to come 100.000 supporters to Amsterdam to watch the game. How are they going to react? They've already warned the women with husbands that are known for doemstic violence.
[22:10] <czajkowski> :(
[22:10] <qense> Twitter isn't even down.
[22:10] <qense> What a deception. :P
[22:10] <qense> czajkowski: Not that I'm depressed. I always say that football doesn't matter to me. (Not always true :D)
[22:10] <Pendulum> why are football fans so known for being violent?
[22:11] <Pendulum> like, it seems to me that they're known for being worse than pretty much any other sport
[22:11] <pleia2> I was at a tailgate party at a baseball game earlier, there were vuvuzelas
[22:11] <pleia2> it was funny :)
[22:12] <qense> Someone just got kicked from the Ubuntu NL IRC channel after celebrating the Spanish goal a bit too spammy and IRC-rules violatingly.
[22:12] <czajkowski> September 2011 I suggest everyone unfollow me on twitter :) it'll be very bad
[22:13] <qense> Why?
[22:13] <czajkowski> RUGBY WORLD CUP
[22:13] <Pendulum> qense: also, to be fair the Dutch played very dirty and actually got lucky that there wasn't that red card early on
[22:13] <czajkowski> and I'll be in New Zeland
[22:13] <qense> Pendulum: In the first minute already, yes.
[22:14] <qense> Pendulum: But not that anyone wants to hear that. The commentary on TV keeps talking about the Spanish goal being made from an offside position.
[22:14] <Pendulum> I'm not sure if it's within the first minute that I'm thinking of, but the kick to the chest
[22:14] <qense> Ah, that one. That was quite dirty indeed.
[22:14] <qense> Is that a tear I hear in the voice of the TV commenter?
[22:14] <Pendulum> heh
[22:14] <Pendulum> probably
[22:15] <qense> This is the third World Cup final we lose.
[22:15] <qense> We have never won one.
[22:16] <qense> Suicide rate will probably rise the coming weeks.
[22:16] <qense> Just as domestic violence and street violence.
[22:17] <Pendulum> maybe they should start to just allow weed everywhere for a few weeks. That'll mellow them all out :P
[22:17] <Pendulum> required cannabis for known violent footie fans ;-)
[22:18] <Pendulum> get them so stoned they can't do anything other than eat
[22:18] <qense> Pendulum: That is the downside to living in the Netherlands. Half the American artists are stoned when they arrive on stage.
[22:18] <Pendulum> qense: oh, I'm sure. but I'd think it'd be useful at times like this.
[22:18] <qense> could be
[22:19] <Pendulum> (to be fair the only gig I've been to in the Netherlands was part of the Cannabis Cup so it was a bit expected)
[22:19] <qense> :)
[22:19] <Pendulum> and was one of Bob Marley's kids
[22:19] <qense> 90% of all drug related incidents in Amsterdam are caused by tourists.
[22:19] <Pendulum> doesn't surprise me
[22:19] <qense> Pendulum: If he wouldn't be stoned that would be a surprise.
[22:20] <Pendulum> although the best coffeeshops are the ones the tourists don't generally go to or where even with tourists it's majority locals
[22:21] <qense> of course
[22:21] <Pendulum> I hate annoying American tourists and according to one of my mates one of the most amusing bits of going to the Cannabis Cup was watching me around the annoying Americans
[22:22] <czajkowski> heh
[22:22] <qense> I know the feeling. We went to Turkey and the Dutch there were so terrible.
[22:22] <Pendulum> there was a guy from Texas who cornered me at one point and was trying to hit on me
[22:22] <Pendulum> he said he did web advertisement
[22:23] <Pendulum> my response: Oh, so it's your fault that there's spam
[22:23] <qense> LOL
[22:23] <Pendulum> yeah, my mate nearby had to hide laughter
[22:23] <Pendulum> part of it is most people get stoned and move slow, get boring
[22:24] <Pendulum> I smoke or otherwise ingest cannibis and I get more functional
[22:24] <Pendulum> so I want to do stuff
[22:24] <Pendulum> and stoners bore me
[22:24] <Pendulum> next time I go to Amsterdam, I want to rent a scooter or powerchair so that I can have a bit more freedom once I'm at that functional point :-)
[22:25] <qense> You can use the cyclist lanes, there are quite some of those in Amsterdam.
[22:26] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:27] <Pendulum> although I'm not sure how much I'd want to
[22:27] <Pendulum> the cyclists are scary and can move faster than even most powerchairs and scooters
[22:27] <qense> The cyclists are pretty Italian in their driving style indeed.
[22:27] <Pendulum> or maybe by then I'll have trialed flying with my powerchair so I can just bring it
[22:29] <qense> Oh god. I just realise that tomorrow the television will be filled with films of crying adult men for the whole day.
[22:30] <qense> The whole day.
[22:30] <qense> And other adult men saying pointless things about the match.
[22:31] <qense> another national trauma
[22:31] <qense> This is big enough to even stop media attention for the forming of the goverment that still isn't there, more than a month after the elections.
[22:38] <czajkowski> nn folks
[22:40] <czajkowski> qense: why does your uds post keep appearing on the planet still everyonce in a whil
[22:40] <czajkowski> *while
[22:40] <qense> czajkowski: I made it a sticky post in WordPress and then later unstickied it.
[22:40] <czajkowski> ahhh
[22:40] <qense> That is apparently enough for PlanetPlanet to make it appear agian.
[22:40] <qense> Why isn't anyone ever doing anything against that?
[22:43] <paultag> I don't think anyone cares enough
[22:43] <paultag> to be honest
[22:43] <paultag> I don't particularly mind your prose qense
[22:44] <qense> paultag: Thanks for the compliment. :)
[22:44] <paultag> sure :)
[22:46] <qense> A lifeless bunch of people on the television now.
[22:48] <qense> Ah! Our crown prince.
[22:48] <qense> Now being interviewed.
[22:48] <qense> He sat next to the queen of Spain. His wife sat a row lower with the lower ranked guests, next to our prime minister.
[22:51] <paultag> haha ouch!
[22:51] <paultag> all the glory, none of the work
[22:53] <qense> He is a very powerful IOC member.
[22:53] <qense> With connections to the Bilderberg Group!


[13:38] <newhoa> Hi! I was wondering if the general Ubuntu 24.04 roadmap deadlines (feature freeze, etc) also applies to Xubuntu?
[13:39] <newhoa> Is there still time to get a new release of the elementary-xfce icon theme in? Tried to address a lot of the issues between 23.10 and now to hopefully make it a little better for LTS.
[13:39] <bluesabre> Generally, yes. But we regularly file for exceptions.
[13:39] <bluesabre> And yes on elementary-xfce
[20:54] <knome> bluesabre, if you so please, you can add the 24.04 wallpaper to your weekly nag list ;)