 They use Windows and do not want to keep doing so as it is not needed. They but need a PC system that runs the net, office, music, math stuff and a few Danish apps. That would be Edubuntu, correct?
[10:58] <nox-Hand> The Danish apps I thought might be adaptable via Wine
[11:00] <nox-Hand> They also need to have a user that has no admin, and it should reset settings at boot ( rm -rf ~/.* )
[11:00] <nox-Hand> Edubuntu would be quite useable, yes? Oh, and the users should call upon network drives from a Win2k server. There are about.. six drives, so should not be a problem
[11:03] <RichEd> nox-Hand: yes ... all sounds fine
[11:03] <nox-Hand> RichEd: Awesome. Just wanted to make sure that someone else actually thought this possible :)
[11:03] <RichEd> to modify anything significant or install anything requires root password
[11:04] <jsgotangco> hello
[11:04] <RichEd> ideally, you would want to go for a LTSP setup ... and every reboot loads standard desktop and runs apps off the server
[11:04] <nox-Hand> RichEd: I know, thats why its all good :)
[11:04] <nox-Hand> LTSP?
[11:04] <nox-Hand> How does that work? Sounds good! :)
[11:05] <nox-Hand> They currently have a reborn chip that restores everything at boot on their Windows PCs
[11:05] <RichEd> LTSP is currently thin client only ... w/s run applications directly on the server (like terminal server)
[11:06] <RichEd> We'll have LTSP Fat Client available in Oct ... where applications run locally, but get config from server on every reboot
[11:06] <RichEd> let me get you a ref page for LTSP
[11:06] <nox-Hand> Cheers!
[11:07] <willvdl> RichEd, have a squizz at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show
[11:07] <willvdl> current mockup
[11:07] <RichEd> nox-Hand: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
[11:07] <RichEd> note that with Ubuntu, you install LTSP as an additional extra
[11:08] <RichEd> with Edubuntu install, you can install LTSP from the CD
[11:08] <nox-Hand> This requires I set up a PC as server though :)
[11:09] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:09] <jsgotangco> but at least you only maintain 1 machine
[11:09] <jsgotangco> instead of several :)
[11:10] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco
[11:10] <RichEd> willvdl: loading it now
[11:10] <jsgotangco> RichEd: hello there how are things
[11:10] <jsgotangco> RichEd: so ive read about the edu conf
[11:10] <nox-Hand> jsgotangco: Oh yeah! The other Pcs get updated apps automatically! :)
[11:10] <jsgotangco> exactly
[11:10] <RichEd> busy busy ... planning extended trip to europe and conference
[11:11] <jsgotangco> that sounds fun
[11:11] <RichEd> nox-Hand: think of it as terminals. there is only one image
[11:11] <RichEd> jsgotangco: lots of fun actually ... like blunt trauma to the head
[11:12] <nox-Hand> RichEd: With 30 PCs doing that at once.. will it be fast?
[11:12] <jsgotangco> travelling is still fun especially if its about work you enjoy
[11:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: depends what 'fast' means
[11:12] <RichEd> jsgotangco: travel is fun ... making arrangements and VISAs and hotels is not
[11:12] <ogra> jsgotangco, that really depends
[11:12] <ogra> :)
[11:13] <jsgotangco> i wouldn't really know anyways i dont travel regularly especially long haul flights
[11:13] <nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: Long waits for opening the stuff that comes over network
[11:13] <RichEd> nox-Hand: you need to work on around 2GB of RAM in the server per 6-8 w/s
[11:13] <ogra> i love travelling, but i get less of my regular work done while i'm doing it .. even if i travel for work ...
[11:13] <RichEd> if you have full blown w/s available, you may rather want to go for Fat Client
[11:13] <nox-Hand> RichEd: w/s?
[11:13] <RichEd> (when it becomes available)
[11:13] <RichEd> work station
[11:14] <nox-Hand> Eep
[11:14] <nox-Hand> I hath not that
[11:14] <nox-Hand> x)
[11:14] <RichEd> ogra here is the man to ask ... he is Mr Ubuntu LTSP and a whole lot more
[11:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: are you doing thin clients or those fat client things?
[11:14] <nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: fat is with only configs, correct?
[11:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> nox-Hand: fat is with stuff running on the client. afaik edgy is like dapper (only thin)
[11:15] <nox-Hand> Bugger. Is it hard to create?
[11:16] <nox-Hand> Though, to be honest, a standard install with removing all user configs in /home/user/ at boot. Would that not be fine?
[11:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> for a public system?
[11:17] <RichEd> nox-Hand: you have a fair amount of protection from users fiddling since they need sudo to do just about anything
[11:17] <RichEd> running the updates / synaptics and all of that prompts for root password
[11:18] <nox-Hand> Kamping_Kaiser: Well. They are students from 0-7th grade. I.e, till about 13 years old. They log in using the same user: student. Password is student, and the admin (teacher) has the sudo password.
[11:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> limited accounts (ie not admin) accounts dont even see synaptic in the menus
[11:18] <nox-Hand> Limited account indeed.
[11:18] <nox-Hand> RichEd: Indeed. Why it should not be bad to use
[11:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure how it will handle multiple simultanious logins
[11:20] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: that's why I am suggesting a standard stand-alone install ... which is the way nox-Hand is leaning.
[11:20] <ogra> nox-Hand, a thin client only behaves like an additional set of monitor, keyboard and mouse on the server it boots from the network, needs no disk and doesnt run any apps locally ...
[11:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd:  think i'd agree with you on taht.
[11:20] <nox-Hand> RichEd: I agree. That should be good
[11:20] <nox-Hand> ogra: I think the standalone is good though
[11:21] <nox-Hand> user cannot do anything "critical"
[11:21] <nox-Hand> Even a regular limited user on XP can kill most things. In Linux they are more safe :)
[11:21] <ogra> nox-Hand, a fat client boots the whole OS from the net and runs everything locally, but still needs no disk and you maintain an image on the server
[11:22] <nox-Hand> ogra: What is there to maintain?
[11:22] <RichEd> ogra: that's my 1st choice, but we wont have it until 7.10 will we ?
[11:22] <nox-Hand> Apart from the updates
[11:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm waiting on hte next LTS. fat clients where i'm currently using thins would rock!
[11:23] <ogra> nox-Hand, softweare installation, user administration etc
[11:23] <ogra> RichEd, exactly
[11:23] <ogra> as a teaser the kiosk mode enetered feisty last night :)
[11:24] <ogra> its a cut down version of a fat client :)
[11:24] <nox-Hand> ogra: Would an upgrade of one PC just be able to copy over to the others?
[11:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[11:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> you could use the same packages though
[11:25] <ajmitch> ogra: that's good to see, what is the kiosk mode?
[11:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> (well, not unless you nfs mount half the os)
[11:25] <nox-Hand> Hmmn
[11:25] <nox-Hand> I dont know :/
[11:26] <ajmitch> ltsp package changelog tells me nothing about kiosk mode :)
[11:27] <nox-Hand> I am going to try to get ahold of one of their laptops so I can set up a full Edubuntu with all the apps over Wine
[11:27] <nox-Hand> To show them how it works
[11:27] <nox-Hand> Then they can chose
[11:27] <nox-Hand> choose*
[11:28] <ogra> ajmitch, ltsp-build-client --kiosk installs metacity, firefox, sound and themes in the client chroot ... if oyu boot a client ff starts fullscreen ... if you reboot a client the image gets reset properly
[11:29] <ajmitch> sounds useful
[11:29] <ogra> a simple webkiosk
[11:30] <ogra> currently it's missing an extra option for the homepage url (i'm fixing that after herd4) then you will be able to run your library webapp on the server and all clients can access it ;)
[11:30] <ajmitch> I'm sure dholbach will give me a universe UVF exception for awhile :)
[11:31] <nox-Hand> How is Edubuntu with Danish Lang support?
[11:31] <ajmitch> kiosk mode sounds like a popular option - I've seen similar stuff used a lot
[11:31] <ogra> nox-Hand, you need to install the danish langpack after install, its not on the CD in edgy/dapper .... feisty will change that though
[11:31] <nox-Hand> We have a lot of PCs at my school doing that in Win2K
[11:31] <nox-Hand> (kiosk)
[11:32] <nox-Hand> ogra: Not a problem
[11:32] <nox-Hand> More whether there would be a lot that was not translated yet?
[11:32] <ogra> if you can download a DVD, i'd suggest doing that, it contains al langpacks
[11:32] <RichEd> nox-Hand: you'll also need to do some looking around yourself ... the wiki site has a good search facility :)
[11:32] <RichEd> wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:33] <RichEd> also try using google with: [+site:ubuntu.com your_search_terms]  it looks across all of the www help and wiki site pages
[11:34] <nox-Hand> yay \o/
[11:34] <RichEd> ( not being rude or unfriendly ... just busy :)
[11:35] <nox-Hand> RichEd: Not a problem ;) You have been most helpful!
[11:36] <RichEd> ogra: I was pointed towards this yesterday: http://www.dokeos.com/
[11:37] <RichEd> I'll take a decent look at it for Edulinux when I have a chance ... just wanted to know if you have heard of it ?
[11:38] <ogra> looks intresting
[11:38] <nox-Hand> What is this DokeOS? Never ever heard of it :P
[11:38] <jsgotangco> dokeos
[11:38] <jsgotangco> nice name
[11:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:39] <RichEd> About Dokeos
[11:39] <RichEd> Dokeos is an Open Source elearning and course management web application translated in 34 languages and helping more than 1.000 organisations worldwide to manage learning and collaboration activities.
[11:39] <ogra> but dont forget, the decision for moodle was based on the amount of support adoption and documentation you can get for it
[11:39] <RichEd> yep ... as an additional not as a substitute ... we should at least be aware of it in case someone proposes it
[11:39] <nox-Hand> RichEd: I know :P Sounds cool x)
[11:56] <highvoltage> ogra: I quite like how the --kiosk, --workstations stuff works with ltsp-build-client (from what I've read), it's UBER COOL!!
[11:57] <ogra> well, its getting there
[11:57] <ogra> i need to find an easy soluton to install flash in the kiosk mode
[11:59] <highvoltage> what's the difficult part, accepting the license?
[11:59] <ogra> no
[11:59] <ogra> making it easy for the user ....
[11:59] <ogra> i need a script that chroots into the client etc etc
[11:59] <highvoltage> aah
[12:00] <ogra> i dont want to bother users with "chroot into /opt/ltsp, now change your sources.list to enable multiverse etc etc"
[12:00] <highvoltage> I thought that was planned to be integrated into the LTSP manager?
[12:01] <ogra> not for feisty
[12:02] <ogra> i'll be happy if ltsp-manager works for the default part in lts.conf by release ... building python-ltsp took a lot of time  ... but will make gui tools a charm in feisty+1
[12:03] <ogra> i wanted a solution from the ground up, so ltsp-manager suffers a bit this release, but we'll have python-ltsp in the future
[12:04] <ogra> it will make it a lot easier to write web or commandline tools .... or simply a status monitor that pings you if oune of the ltsp services goes down
[12:25] <ajmitch> there, some more ugly bits hacked out, now I need some more shiny bits to replace them
[01:19] <cbx33> hi guys
[01:19] <cbx33> anyone know much about working on mailman mailing lists
[01:23] <ogra> cbx33, tfhee was mailman maintaine for quite some time in debian
[01:23] <ogra> *tfheen
[01:25] <cbx33> cool
[01:25] <cbx33> my new mailing list isn't working
[01:25] <cbx33> well it is but I' ma mamber and I'm not getting the posts
[02:02] <RichEd> ping ogra
[04:04] <bddebian> Heya
[04:54] <Petaris> Has anyone here set up and edubuntu LTSP server that gets user auth via OpenLDAP/OpenDirectory?
[04:59] <RichEd> ^ sbalneav / ogra ... any comment here for Petaris
[04:59] <sbalneav> Petaris: Yep, I have.
[04:59] <sbalneav> Open LDAP is what I use.
[04:59] <Petaris> oh, cool
[04:59] <ogra> RichEd, not from my side i dont have any windows licenses
[04:59] <ogra> oh
[04:59] <RichEd> ogra: nor does half of SE asia ;)
[05:00] <ogra> sorry i read that as active directory
[05:00] <RichEd> hi scotty ... sorry to get you involved before greeting you :)
[05:00] <Petaris> sbalneav: Was it difficult to set up?
[05:00] <ogra> openldp works just fine here ... i did some tests for the edubuntu-auth-server spec
[05:00] <Petaris> ogra: its ok, thats what I am usually asking about
[05:00] <Petaris> :)
[05:00] <ogra> i didnt use opendirectory though
[05:01] <Petaris> hrm
[05:01] <ogra> http://www.moduli.net/pages/sarge-ldap-auth-howto
[05:01] <sbalneav> Petaris: LDAP auth is slightly tricky to set up, but not impossible.  I basically followed a Debian guide a couple of years ago, and it's worked fine since.
[05:01] <ogra> its similar to set it up in ubuntu
[05:01] <Petaris> I am testing an Apple OS X server and I want to know if I can get auth working for my LTSP servers
[05:02] <Petaris> sbalneav: I have the server set up
[05:02] <Petaris> I just need the LTSP servers to be clients
[05:03] <Petaris> ogra: ok thanks, I'll have a look at that how-to
[05:03] <Petaris> is the client hard to setup or were you refering to the server side
[05:03] <Petaris> ?
[05:03] <ogra> both
[05:04] <ogra> the evil part is to get pam right
[05:04] <Petaris> more difficult then Active Dir auth?
[05:04] <Petaris> ahh yes
[05:04] <Petaris> pam
[05:04] <ogra> just setting up slapd or libnss-ldap on its own isnt to hard
[05:04] <Petaris> ok
[05:04] <ogra> but integrating the pieces is
[05:04] <Petaris> so its just the pam rules
[05:05] <ogra> do you use ldm ?
[05:05] <Petaris> I have weird issues with Active Dir auth so I am looking to switch to something else
[05:05] <Petaris> ldm?
[05:05] <ogra> the ltsp login manager
[05:05] <Petaris> that sound so familiar
[05:05] <Petaris> oh
[05:05] <Petaris> ok
[05:06] <ogra> or do you use xdmcp with gdm over the net ?
[05:06] <Petaris> well I use what ever the default is
[05:06] <ogra> ok
[05:06] <Petaris> but I use xfce4 for the desktop
[05:06] <ogra> then you use ldm ... make sure to add your rules to /etc/pam.d/ssh then
[05:06] <Petaris> not that it matters
[05:06] <Petaris> ok
[05:06] <ogra> since thats what ldm uses in the backend ;)
[05:07] <Petaris> and the how-to you posted should go over most of that?
[05:07] <ogra> it should give you a hint what to do, yes
[05:07] <Petaris> oh, is there a way to keep root from being authed to the server
[05:07] <Petaris> just have it remain local
[05:07] <Petaris> ok
[05:07] <ogra> just dont add root to the ldap db ?
[05:08] <ogra> pam should look locally if it doesnt find it on the ldap server ...
[05:08] <Petaris> and it will just fall back to local auth?
[05:08] <Petaris> oh, ok
[05:08] <Petaris> cool
[05:08] <ogra> (if you configured it like that)
[05:08] <Petaris> right
[05:08] <Petaris> ok, time to play
[05:08] <Petaris> I am actually going to try this on an zenwalk box I have sitting here
[05:09] <Petaris> but the LTSP servers are edubuntu of course
[05:50] <cstextiles> Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility in a ltsp environment?
[05:54] <willvdl> ogra, would it be safe to say the following: (gimme second to type it)
[05:54] <willvdl> Edubuntu can be installed/config'd as: Stand-Alone Workstation (all inclusive desktop PC)
[05:55] <ogra> yep
[05:55] <ogra> even though config'd sounds a bit weird :)
[05:55] <willvdl> or as Server, where Server could include LTSP and or email/LAMP server
[05:55] <ogra> no
[05:55] <ogra> server always icludes ltsp in edubuntu
[05:56] <willvdl> Server is LTSP rather
[05:56] <willvdl> does our Server install include postfix,dovecote, apache etc. ?
[05:56] <cstextiles> Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility so that i can watch out the ltsp clients's screen?
[05:56] <willvdl> cstextiles, chat to cbx33 about TCM...
[05:59] <ogra> no
[05:59] <ogra> it install schooltool, samba (unconfigured) and ltsp
[05:59] <willvdl> ogra, gotcha, so different to ubuntu server
[05:59] <ogra> *installs
[05:59] <ogra> yep
[05:59] <cstextiles> cbx33:  Does anyone knows any utility through which i can use the vnc like utility so that i can watch out the ltsp clients's screen? Someone pointed me out to chat with u regarding TCM for this question
[05:59] <ogra> for moodle we'll use their LAMP though
[06:00] <cbx33> cstextiles, in feisty TCM will allow you to do this
[06:00] <willvdl> okie. all off one CD
[06:01] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=209
[06:01] <cstextiles> I am using 6.10 is it Fiesty Sorry but a newbie type and so asking
[06:01] <cbx33> there ya go cstextiles
[06:01] <cbx33> currently you can't do it in 6.10
[06:01] <cbx33> it will debut in 7.04
[06:01] <willvdl> ogra, with install options just like edgy.
[06:01] <cbx33> I'm not sure if ogra has plans to backport it?
[06:01] <willvdl> (just want my handbook frontmatter to be spot on)
[06:02] <ogra> cbx33, why me ?
[06:02] <ogra> cbx33, feel free to do it if you dont have better things to do wit your time ;)
[06:02] <cstextiles> cbx33: Ya thanks I got that
[06:02] <cbx33> well...i was kinda asking if it was a possibility
[06:02] <willvdl> lol
[06:02] <cstextiles> ogra: Please don't feel offended he was just giving me the possibilities
[06:03] <willvdl> ogra's our bitch. he does what we say :P
[06:03] <willvdl> or we poke him with sticks
[06:03] <ogra> cstextiles, i dont feel offended :)
[06:03] <ogra> cbx33, sure, feel free
[06:04] <cbx33> hehe
[06:04] <willvdl> cbx33, when is oyur book chapter released?
[06:04] <cbx33> it should work fine on edgy
[06:04] <cbx33> as it was mainly developed under edgy ...
[06:04] <cbx33> says a rather embarrsed cbx33
[06:04] <ogra> cbx33, i'm not sure ... you wont be able to use the binaries ...
[06:04] <cbx33> willvdl, I'm waiting on Burgwork and mako to check it through
[06:05] <ogra> (python2.5)
[06:05] <ogra> its not in edgy ...
[06:05] <cbx33> hmm
[06:05] <ogra> so a recompile at least is needed
[06:05] <cbx33> what about using 2.
[06:05] <cbx33> 4
[06:05] <cbx33> oh yeh
[06:05] <cbx33> of course
[06:05] <ogra> its not in feisty :)
[06:05] <cstextiles> cbx33: Do u mean Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling (TCM)? or some other tool as this tool desciption seems me something different? Or is that tool has not been uplaoded I know that it will not be avialbe for 6.1 but just gathering info?
[06:05] <ogra> feisty == py2.5 ----> edgy == 2.4
[06:05] <cbx33> Thin Client Manager
[06:06] <ogra> you dont need TCM for vnc though
[06:06] <cbx33> no true
[06:06] <Burgwork> cbx33: do you have time to chat about it at some point?
[06:06] <ogra> just install a vnc server in the client chroot .... and use the tsclient from te gnome menu
[06:06] <cbx33> Burgwork, sure...(gulp)
[06:07] <cbx33> is now convenient?
[06:07] <Burgwork> cbx33: nope
[06:07] <cstextiles> I am using LTSP and so my LTSP client and the server shows the same ip address if i do ifconfig?
[06:07] <Burgwork> ogra: what does kiosk mode do?
[06:07] <cstextiles> ogra: I am using LTSP and so my LTSP client and the server shows the same ip address if i do ifconfig?
[06:07] <ogra> Burgwork, /lastlog :P
[06:07] <cbx33> Burgwork, when is good for you?
[06:08] <Burgwork> ogra: ah, ok
[06:08] <Burgwork> cool
[06:08] <ogra> cstextiles, you are logged in on the server, indeed it shows the IP of the system your desktop is executed on
[06:09] <ogra> imagine the client as only monitor/keyboard/mouse add-ons to the server, not as a realy system
[06:09] <ogra> *real
[06:09] <cstextiles> ogra:ya and so I can't use the VNC to look into the client's screen
[06:09] <RichEd> ping ogra
[06:10] <cstextiles> ogra: as it asks for the IP address or may be I don't know how to use VNC?
[06:10] <ogra> cstextiles, you can ... the client ip is shown on the ldm screen (bottom right) the graphical output still happens on the client
[06:10] <ogra> (i know its confusing)
[06:11] <cstextiles> ogra: ldm? I did not got you
[06:11] <cbx33> Burgwork, when did you want to chat?
[06:12] <Burgwork> cbx33: hmm, let me see. I just started my work day here
[06:12] <cbx33> ah right
[06:12] <cbx33> sorry Burgwork I should have said sooner?
[06:12] <cbx33> can i just ask if you don't mind....is it looking ok? or shockinly bad?
[06:13] <Burgwork> usually I don;t talk with this nick unless I am at work :)
[06:13] <cbx33> sorry Burgwork
[06:13] <ogra> cstextiles, ltsp login manager, the thing you type your username and assword into
[06:13] <Burgwork> no worries
[06:14] <cbx33> you can drop me a mail if you want
[06:15] <cstextiles> ogra: So by using that ip address I can see the screen of the client from server using VNC
[06:19] <ogra> cstextiles, right, if you have a vnc server runnig on the client
[06:20] <cstextiles> ogra: ya i got that. Thanks for the help
[06:39] <Burgwork> cbx33: have you heard of this product: http://www.stagecast.com/
[06:40] <cbx33> no i havn't
[06:40] <cbx33> looks quite cool
[06:40] <cbx33> like gcompris
[06:41] <ogra> well, rather like a gcompris editor :)
[06:41] <ogra> cool tool
[06:41] <ogra> but proprietary, no ?
[06:47] <Burgwork> yes, sadly
[06:50] <Burgwork> school in the US contacted us about using our stuff with that
[06:56] <maccam94> i'm looking to set up a good sized (700 computer) network, but right now i'm just testing on a couple of machines. I want some sort of network authentication available, is LDAP the main way to do this?
[06:56] <maccam94> or are there other alternatives?
[06:59] <Burgwork> ldap is the way
[06:59] <maccam94> k
[07:00] <maccam94> and is there a good GUI for it, or is it mostly configured through the cli?
[09:18] <cbx33> ping Burgwork
[09:18] <lewmnik_> I really like all the new stuff in Feisty, this will be HUGE!
[09:19] <cbx33> know you're at work....really quick question - are you able to chat at all today? if so...in how many hours?
[09:22] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[09:25] <LaserJock> hi Pete
[09:27] <LaserJock> cbx33: do you know how to use glade pretty well? I assume yes
[09:27] <cbx33> heh
[09:27] <cbx33> i'd say i can use it
[09:27] <cbx33> yeh
[09:27] <cbx33> :p
[09:28] <cbx33> LaserJock, what ya need
[09:30] <LaserJock> cbx33: you on gtalk?
[09:30] <cbx33> yeh hang on
[09:31] <cbx33> i am now
[09:37] <SimonAnibal> See you all later!
[10:49] <Burgwork> cbx33: pong
[10:50] <cbx33> Burgwork, did you get my question?
[10:50] <cbx33> twas merely, when do you finish work today?
[10:52] <Burgwork> cbx33: ah, I finish in 3 hours, but I have a class tonight
[10:52] <cbx33> ok
[10:52] <cbx33> np
[10:52] <cbx33> is it csomething you can mail me about?
[10:52] <cbx33> or is it thatbad?
[10:54] <Burgwork> can we chat tomorrow night, my time?
[10:54] <cbx33> not tomorrow
[10:54] <cbx33> perhaps thursday?
[10:54] <cbx33> what time evening your time?
[10:54] <cbx33> i can do
[10:55] <cbx33> 08-16 UTC
[10:55] <cbx33> and then possibly 19-22 UTC
[10:56] <Burgwork> 08 utc is midnight my time
[10:56] <Burgwork> I can do that
[10:56] <cbx33> it'll be a little after that....
[10:56] <cbx33> probably around 8:30
[10:56] <cbx33> as that's just when i get into work
[10:56] <Burgwork> ugh, ok
[10:57] <Burgwork> btw, Userful might have something for your "charging for printing" problem
[10:57] <Burgwork> but one way is to use the pure cups queue
[10:57] <cbx33> would it be easier to get mako to deal?
[10:57] <Burgwork> simply set the printer to pause
[10:57] <cbx33> ah cool
[10:57] <Burgwork> then just bring up the admin panel and unpause print jobs
[10:58] <Burgwork> this something several of our customers have in place already
[10:59] <cbx33> excellent
[11:00] <cbx33> so what ya wanna do....08:30 utc thursday, or something else?
[11:00] <Burgwork> that time works
[11:01] <cbx33> ok
[11:01] <cbx33> I'll meet you then
[11:01] <cbx33> do i need to bring anything?
[11:01] <Burgwork> yourself
[11:04] <Amaranth> cbx33: ack, web filtering again
[11:04] <cbx33> Amaranth, yup
[11:04] <Amaranth> whenever i feel like doing some real math i start poking at willowng again
[11:04] <Amaranth> but then i go back to the shiny bits in compiz :P
[11:12] <ajmitch> Amaranth: resist it
[11:13] <Amaranth> ajmitch: but we've got OS X spaces before OS X :)
[11:16] <ajmitch> yay
[11:19] <Amaranth> my only bugs now are that if i start compiz with a minimized window the window is just _gone_ and it'll randomly lock up when you change the resolution (like to play a game)
[11:19] <Amaranth> i'll figure them out or poke people until they do it for me
[11:47] <Arjuna> just installed edubuntu 6.10 on an old pentiumII
[11:47] <Arjuna> "unable to locate RDSP" on boot
[11:48] <Arjuna> can't get past login, reboots to login after starting x and showing the desktop
[11:48] <Arjuna> ideas?
[11:48] <Arjuna> thx


[10:54] <ironhalik> Hello
[10:55] <ironhalik> got a small issue with xenial server, and dont really know where to start debugging it
[10:55] <ironhalik> most of my log files in /var/log are empty and not logged to, except the ones rotated by logrotate
[10:56] <ironhalik> ie. haproxy.log is empty, while haproxy.log.1 is actively written to
[10:56] <ironhalik> rsyslog is configured to log to haproxy.log, and logrotate uses default config
[13:50] <k_sze_> Does unattended-upgrade refrain from automatically rebooting if it can't send mail notification?
[13:50] <ikonia> I don't believe so
[13:51] <ikonia> I believe mail notifications is just a "bonus" feature, nothing has a hard depend on it
[13:51] <ikonia> I could be wrong,
[13:51] <ikonia> I certainly have used it without an MTA being defined and never had a problem
[13:52] <k_sze_> I somehow don't get automatic reboots. :(
[13:52] <ikonia> isn't it an option you have to enable ?
[13:52] <ikonia> (I don't know if it's on by default)
[13:53] <ikonia> I'm working from memory and I think there was an option to enable auto reboot
[13:53] <k_sze_> There is, and I have enabled it in the config.
[13:54] <ikonia> is the upgrade not acutally completing perhaps ?
[13:54] <ikonia>  do the logs show a sucessful upgrade ?
[13:54] <k_sze_> Which log should I look at? If I ssh into the server, I see the message "*** System restart required ***"
[13:55] <ikonia> interesting so that suggests it knows it needs the resetart but doesn't execute it
[13:55] <k_sze_> But the /var/run/reboot-required file is quite old.
[13:55] <ikonia> there should be an upgrade log
[13:55] <ikonia> is the /var/run/reboot-required file actually overwritable ?
[13:55] <ikonia> try removing it and re-running the upgrade
[13:57] <k_sze_> It is overwritable
[13:57] <ikonia> then why isn't it being overwriteable
[13:58] <ikonia> I wonder...does it need a reboot before it can start ?
[13:58] <ikonia> has the upgrade actually happened, or is it the prep thats failing
[13:58] <ikonia> (if you say the reboot-required file is old)
[13:58] <k_sze_> Well, the reboot-required is dated Sept 3
[13:58] <k_sze_> this month
[13:58] <ikonia> when did you run the upgrade ?
[14:02] <k_sze_> You mean the last time I ran updates manually?
[14:14] <k_sze_> what the....
[14:14] <k_sze_> if I run `unattended-upgrade -v -d` manually in the terminal as root, it *does* reboot.
[14:15] <k_sze_> But I still don't get an e-mail notification. :(
[14:15] <k_sze_> Even though I know that root's .mailrc works. I *have* tried to send a test message using s-nail.
[14:30] <tomreyn> does it run as root, though?
[14:34] <k_sze_> tomreyn: erm... why would it not run as root?
[14:38] <k_sze_> Actually, how does unattended-upgrade get run on Xenial server?
[14:40] <k_sze_> Using a systemd timer?
[14:44] <tomreyn> according to /etc/cron.daily/apt-compat that's how
[14:47] <tomreyn> systemctl list-timers lists apt-daily.timer and apt-daily-upgrade.timer. i thinkt he former is what triggers u-u
[15:42] <hallyn> cpaelzer: rbasak: ok this is funky.  With zesty and artful vms, using uvtool...  I usually pass in a --run-script-once which does som eupdating and then a reboot (then writes over nc to a socket to tell me script it's ready).
[15:42] <hallyn> but with zesty and beyond, the vm hangs on reboot until i do a virsh console.  as soon as i do that, it proceeds.  wtf?


[12:26] <fdoving> gnite all.
[12:33] <ryanakca> night fdoving
[02:46] <freeflying> congrats all  :)
[03:42] <gnomefreak> jdong: ping
[03:49] <jdong> gnomefreak: pong
[03:49] <jdong> heh :)
[03:57] <gnomefreak> jdong: you going to UDS
[03:57] <jdong> gnomefreak: no, I'm not
[03:57] <gnomefreak> ok just wondering
[04:16] <Hobbsee> cool, my isp added all the kubuntu and ubuntu iso's to their unmetered page already
[04:21] <Hobbsee> [12:20]  <Hobbsee> Total Bytes received 47368 Kb (6.66%)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> [12:20]  <Hobbsee> Current speed = 402.00Kb/s, Average D/L speed = 614.97Kb/s
[04:21] <Hobbsee> [12:20]  <Hobbsee> Time Remaining 17 Minutes 56 Seconds
[04:21] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[04:31] <Hobbsee> Riddell: all the links in http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php are wrong - they refer to dapper
[04:31] <Hobbsee> oh wait, i cant read
[04:32] <Hobbsee> 1f9baed847eff89b03c754fcaea8070e
[04:32] <Hobbsee> 1f9baed847eff89b03c754fcaea8070e
[04:32] <Hobbsee> good, bigpond got the correct file then...
[04:42] <Hobbsee> 1f9baed847eff89b03c754fcaea8070e
[04:42] <Hobbsee> and it came down fine.  good
[04:42] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! :)
[04:42] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato :)
[04:43] <Jucato> what came down fine.good? :P
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Jucato: kubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.iso
[04:43] <Jucato> ah... :(
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Jucato: whihc my ISP has kindly decided to host already
[04:43] <Hobbsee> along with all the ubuntu ones
[04:44] <Jucato> md5sum verified.. but the burn... didn't go well :(
[04:44] <Jucato> nice!!
[04:44] <Hobbsee> yeah!
[04:44] <Hobbsee> :(
[04:44] <Hobbsee> i'm just burning now
[04:44] <Hobbsee> i'm hoping to try this out on dad's laptop
[04:44] <Jucato> I'm seeding the alternate and desktop ISO's for 386 once I get Edgy back up :)
[04:44] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[04:45] <Jucato> I'm doing something... well... crazy :P
[04:45] <Jucato> Edgy is the time to be edgy
[04:45] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:45] <Jucato> btw, I confirmed a KOrganizer bug in LP. it's a KDE 3.5.5 actually so I put a link to the the KDE bug report
[04:46] <Hobbsee> yay :)
[04:46] <Jucato> a fix is already available according to kde bugs. that makes 2 KDE 3.5.5 bugs with fixes already (that didn't make it)
[04:47] <Hobbsee> they'll make it into feisty then
[04:47] <Hobbsee> and there will always be bugs
[04:47] <Jucato> heheh :)
[04:47] <Jucato> there's also a KWin bug that I already told Tonio about. it was fixed Oct. 10. too bad the patch didn't make it to Edgy :(
[04:48] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:48] <Hobbsee> make sure it gets in for next time
[04:49] <Hobbsee> patches that you write are also good - ie, so all they have to do is put it in
[04:49] <Jucato> hehe I don't write patches yet :P
[04:49] <Hobbsee> debdiffs, with the kde patch included :P
[04:49] <Jucato> hm.. I though Tonio said the patches would probably be put in -updates?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> probably
[04:52] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you're going to UDS? (I forgot...)
[04:52] <Hobbsee> Jucato: nope.  probably MV+1 though
[04:52] <Jucato> aaah
[04:52] <Jucato> :(
[04:52] <Jucato> they won't get to see the queen
[04:52] <Hobbsee> they'll deal :P
[04:52] <Hobbsee> besides, it's freezing over there
[04:53] <Jucato> hehe
[04:54] <Hobbsee> ROFL!
[04:54] <Jucato> O_o
[04:55] <Jucato> lol
[04:55] <Jucato> funny ain't it?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> yep
[04:56] <Hobbsee> i thought my laptop had gone nuts
[04:56] <Jucato> hahah
[04:57] <Hobbsee> oh drat, dad took his laptoip
[04:58] <Jucato> :(
[05:02] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: You better bust out the pointy stick!
[05:02] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: why so?
[05:02] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Poke him with it and tell him not to take *his* laptop anymore without asking you first :)
[05:02] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: heh.  it is still his.  for the moment
[05:03] <Hawkwind> Or, you could just beat Jucato with it if you're bored :P
[05:04] <Jucato> why me...
[05:04] <Jucato> :(
[05:26] <Hobbsee_> i'd like to make a complaint
[05:26] <Hobbsee> !network
[05:26] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about network - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:26] <Hobbsee> !wifi
[05:26] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[05:26] <Hobbsee> !network is <alias> wifi
[05:26] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
[05:26] <Hobbsee> !-wifi
[05:26] <ubotu> wifi aliases: wireless, ndiswrapper, broadcom, bcm43xx, ndis, wpa, wep, madwifi, ralink, ipw, wpa2, acx111, network - added by Seveas on 2006-07-25 23:42:07
[05:26] <Hobbsee> oh, so i did guess right
[05:26] <Hobbsee> anyway, i'd still like to make a complaint
[05:27] <Jucato> ooh
[05:27] <Hobbsee> we dont actually include knm on the cd
[05:27] <Hobbsee> if we do, we dont do it in such a way that you can easily access it from the live cd
[05:28] <Hobbsee> and since i cant seem to make wlassistant work at all...that's not good
[05:28] <Jucato> :(
[05:29] <Hobbsee> oh well.  dad's wifi card is screwed.
[05:31] <ajmitch> Hobbsee! Hobbsee_!
[05:32] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
[05:32] <ajmitch> and one of the Hobbsees leaves us :(
[05:33] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:33] <Hobbsee> indeed
[05:33] <Hobbsee> i'm only on one machine at the moment, too
[05:33] <Hobbsee> finished playing with dad's colleague's laptop
[05:35] <Jucato> the laptop of the colleague of the dad of Hobbsee...
[05:35] <Hobbsee> yep
[05:35] <Hobbsee> the colleague left the company, so dad got the laptop, for being the closest.  oh, and i got the ram :D
[05:35] <Jucato> hahah
[05:37] <Hobbsee> currently the house has 5 computers.  or did, as of last night.
[05:37] <Jucato> O_O
[05:37] <Hobbsee> for three people, that's kinda scary :P
[05:37] <Hobbsee> (most of them arent ours)
[05:37] <Jucato> hehe
[05:37] <Jucato> kinda fun too :)
[05:38] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ping?
[05:38] <Jucato> btw Hobbsee, is it possible to have Edgy installed and be packaging/developing for Feisty on the same system? maybe Feisty on a separate partition?
[05:38] <Hobbsee> Jucato: sure.  dual, or tripple boot
[05:38] <Hobbsee> the only limit on how many OS' you can have is based on hard disk space
[05:38] <Jucato> um.. without having to reboot again and again?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> er, vmware
[05:39] <Jucato> how about chroot stuff?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> of course, if you're building things for feisty, why not just use a pbuilder/chroot?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> you can run X-based apps in the chroot too, if you want
[05:39] <Jucato> ah
[05:39] <Jucato> ok that's what I was looking for :)
[05:39] <nixternal> Hobbsee: pong
[05:40] <Hobbsee> nixternal: bug 68521?
[05:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68521 in kubuntu-docs "Kubuntu release notes refer to Firefox 2.0 which isn't included" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68521
[05:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: er?  i think you misunderstand the idea of a chroot
[05:40] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I obviously did :)
[05:40] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:40] <nixternal> damn
[05:40] <Jucato> nvm the rantings of a developer-wannabe...
[05:40] <nixternal> she has a point there, what to do
[05:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: pbuilder/chroots, to my knowledge, do releases - so you can have a feisty chroot, an edgy chroot, etch chrood, sid chroot, etc
[05:41] <Hobbsee> nixternal: where are the release notes?
[05:41] <Hobbsee> nixternal: distributed on the cds?
[05:41] <nixternal> hrmm
[05:41] <Jucato> KDE Help Center? Kubuntu Documents?
[05:41] <nixternal> kubuntu docs yes, so khelpcenter
[05:43] <Hobbsee> so you cant change them, obviously.  unless its' in updates, but that's beside the point.  by the time they've updated, they wont be reading the documentation
[05:51] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: upgraded to feisty?
[05:51] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: not as yet.  i should though
[05:51] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:53] <Jucato> Hobbsee: feisty's open already?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: now look waht you've done :P
[05:53] <Hobbsee> Jucato: sure!  now get bugfixing!
[05:53] <Jucato> ok I'll stay quiet
[05:53] <Jucato> :P
[05:54] <Jucato> well it wasn't open yet last night... so...
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it wont be open for a while
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Jucato: and they'll have to build the toolchain first
[05:56] <Jucato> that's why I was asking... (more of a surprised question...)
[05:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: most people ask that immediately - on the forums too
[06:00] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i have an evil idea.
[06:00] <Jucato> Hobbsee: heh.. well, I'm not like *most* people... I'm weird... :P
[06:00] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:01] <Jucato> oh no doubt about that :D
[06:03] <Jucato> hehe
[06:04] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: what a surprise
[06:05] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: an idea about "spreading misinformation on the forums, seeing as how there is so much there already"
[06:05] <ajmitch> hah
[06:05] <ajmitch> what sort of misinformation?
[06:06] <Jucato> yeah... gang up on the forums :P
[06:23] <nixternal> heh
[06:26] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: along the lines of "yes, feisty repos are open" or something
[06:28] <ajmitch> "feisty's just great, isn't it?"
[06:28] <nixternal> [22:53:19]  <Jucato> Hobbsee: feisty's open already?
[06:28] <nixternal> ghahahaha
[06:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yep!
[06:28] <Hobbsee> nixternal: :D
[06:28] <ajmitch> well they're *partly* open
[06:28] <nixternal> damn, he left before i could make fun of him
[06:28] <nixternal> for gcc and what not
[06:28] <ajmitch> for a very limited base set of pakages
[06:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: in that the feisty pbuilders may build?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:28] <ajmitch> kernel has been uploaded
[06:28] <nixternal> open for the "under the hood" type stuff
[06:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: when should they finish the toolchain?
[06:29] <ajmitch> 16:14 -!- BenC changed the topic of #ubuntu-kernel to: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryKernel |
[06:29] <ajmitch>           2.6.19-1.1 uploaded. Don't use it, it's for bootstrapping only
[06:29] <nixternal> gcc, kernel, glibc the fun stuff
[06:29] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: no idea
[06:29] <ajmitch> be patient
[06:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: starting merging early would be good :P
[06:29] <ajmitch> back later :)
[06:29] <Hobbsee> which was what i was thinking of
[06:29] <Hobbsee> okay
[06:29] <nixternal> hehe, Hobbsee we can get a start on it tonight
[06:29] <Hobbsee> nixternal: not if most things arent there - they'll just break
[06:29] <nixternal> you take a through m, and i will take n through z
[06:29] <Hobbsee> nixternal: besides, i'm not working without MOM
[06:30] <nixternal> oh ya, mom would be nice
[06:40] <nixternal> wb imbrandon
[06:40] <nixternal> you didn't sleep long
[06:42] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon!
[06:42] <freeflying> hi Hobbsee nixternal imbrandon
[06:42] <Hobbsee> hi freeflying
[06:45] <nixternal> hiy freeflying
[06:45] <nixternal> !seen mornfall
[06:45] <ubotu> mornfall is on IRC right now!
[07:29] <freeflying> do u have a presentation for edgy, there will be a release party next week in Beijing
[09:46] <mhb_> good morning
[09:49] <Hobbsee> hey mhb_
[09:49] <danimo> moins!
[09:50] <Hobbsee> heya danimo
[09:51] <mhb_> sorry that I'm twice here but I have some trouble getting to my server (note: never buy D-Link modems again)
[09:53] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:53] <Hobbsee> dlinks should be good
[09:54] <Hobbsee> mhb_: i doubt its' a problem
[09:54] <danimo> dlink is the root of all evil (tm)
[09:54] <mhb_> Hobbsee: the modems are dropping ssh connections randomly
[09:54] <Hobbsee> ah
[09:54] <Hobbsee> danimo: nooo!  marvell is.
[09:55] <Hobbsee> danimo: my dlink card works without fail, without ndiswrapper pain.  i'll not hear a work against dlink.
[09:55] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:55] <mhb_> Hobbsee: they had trouble because they use linux in their router/modems but they refused to release the source code (IIRC)
[10:04] <Hobbsee> mhb_: ahhh
[10:05] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee, moins el
[10:05] <imbrandon> and *
[10:05] <imbrandon> very stormy here
[10:05] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon!  got the new amarok done yet?
[10:05] <imbrandon> its compiling on ppc now
[10:05] <el> moin imbrandon, moin Hobbsee :)
[10:06] <imbrandon> but amd64 and i386 yea
[10:06] <Hobbsee> hey el!
[10:06] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: nice :)
[10:06] <el> coffee!
[10:06] <imbrandon> i cant give it out just yet though Hobbsee shhhhhhh
[10:06] <imbrandon> el, yea coffee !!!
[10:06] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, fair enough
[10:07] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, wel i can give it to you , but you know what i mean heh
[10:07] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah.  it cant leak
[10:07] <imbrandon> "generaly"
[10:08] <imbrandon> sides its not like you dont have access to the same tarball as I :)
[10:08] <Hobbsee> true
[10:08] <imbrandon> man its storming pretty good here
[10:13] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: so we can expect you to vanish as you lose power?
[10:13] <imbrandon> i hope not
[10:13] <imbrandon> heh
[10:14] <imbrandon> well my irc client is on an ups, but that dont help as i wont be able to type lol
[10:16] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:17] <crimsun> I _love_ sound issues.  *sigh*
[10:17] <Hobbsee> crimsun: hehe.
[10:18] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[10:18] <imbrandon> heh i bet
[10:23] <danimo> 29GB of Ubuntu mirrored :)
[11:04] <two-face> Hi
[11:08] <two-face> what is the way to get always in sync with the devlopment version?
[11:09] <Hobbsee> er, run the development version?
[11:10] <two-face> where do you point to?
[11:10] <two-face> you need to change the sources.list everytime a new dev version starts, don't you?
[11:15] <Hobbsee> yes
[11:15] <Hobbsee> there are chroots and stuff as well, which is useful
[11:15] <Hobbsee> seeing as things tend to break
[11:16] <two-face> do they?
[11:16] <Hobbsee> in developmetn?  of course
[11:17] <Tm_T> b0rkage <3
[11:17] <two-face> it depends how annoying
[11:18] <two-face> Tm_T: <3 ?
[11:18] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: it's already feeling weird to not be running a development version
[11:19] <crimsun> oh don't worry, plenty of bugs abound to make it seem beta still!
[11:20] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: Indeed.
[11:20] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, woot " dpkg-deb: building package `amarok' in `../amarok_1.4.4-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'. "
[11:20] <Tm_T> two-face: Heart, you know. ;)
[11:21] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
[11:21] <Hobbsee> hunger: i know!  so sad.
[11:21] <two-face> Tm_T: still not getting it :)
[11:21] <imbrandon> hunger, unless you make/break them your self heh
[11:23] <Tm_T> two-face: Start using 'feisty' repositories from first weeks, and you will soon get it. ;)
[11:26] <two-face> alright
[11:26] <two-face> I'll think about it
[11:26] <hunger> Well, I am optimistic that feisty will become very interesting again;-)
[11:27] <Tm_T> Me too
[11:27] <Tm_T> And all that transition breakage. <3
[11:27] <Tm_T> Rebooting like russian roulette.
[11:28] <hunger> Maybe I can even sneak in my cryptodisks script that I try to get into ubuntu since hoary:-)
[11:28] <two-face> what compared to debian unstable?
[11:29] <two-face> s/what/how/
[11:29] <hunger> two-face: debian has no upstart:-) it uses the tried and true sysv-init.
[11:30] <hunger> two-face: debian can only break one init-script or another... upstart can screw up all of them at the same time;-)
[11:30] <two-face> i mean stability
[11:30] <two-face> of the dev version
[11:30] <Tm_T> Should be reasonable, though gcc/xorg transitions might hit in time to time.
[11:30] <hunger> two-face: I got 3 or 4 total screwups following edgy. I used to get the same number on debian unstable.
[11:30] <Tm_T> Right?
[11:31] <hunger> two-face: debian/unstable release cycles are longer... so there is more time inbetween screwups... some people might call that more stable.
[11:31] <two-face> hunger: alright, i'm pondering :p
[11:32] <hunger> two-face: but usually those screwups are pretty easy to fix (in ubuntu and debian), so I am not really worried.
[11:32] <two-face> hunger: i'm a debian dev so I can get along with it
[11:33] <Tm_T> two-face: Nicve. :)
[11:33] <hunger> two-face: I am just a user, here and on debian.
[11:34] <Tm_T> Hmm, not sure I did choose right words to describe my meaning.
[11:37] <two-face> hunger: so what's better with upstart?
[11:40] <Tm_T> speed++ atleast.
[11:40] <hunger> two-face: It is a different system.
[11:40] <two-face> ok
[11:40] <hunger> two-face: upstart is event-based: It executes scripts in response to events comming in.
[11:40] <two-face> alright
[11:41] <hunger> two-face: Events are things like "sytem-started-to-boot" or successful/unsuccessful execution of startup scripts, heartbeat failures, network connections starting to come in, udev, cron, etc.
[11:42] <hunger> two-face: It promises to unify several distinct systems in a classical unix env into one central service. Should make administration somewhat nicer. And it is supposed to speed up system boot, too.
[11:43] <two-face> interesting thanks
[11:44] <two-face> i'm off now
[11:44] <two-face> bye
[11:45] <hunger> Damn... all the upstart links I had are no longer functional.
[11:47] <cmvo> hunger: http://upstart.ubuntu.com
[11:59] <Tm_T> Hmh, how deb version comparison was done?
[12:25] <imbrandon> Tm_T, dpkg --compare-versions ?
[12:26] <Tm_T> Hmm, that's the one, but it doesn't seem to work very well.
[12:26] <imbrandon> hows that?
[12:27] <Tm_T> "dpkg --compare-versions 4:3.5.5a-2 > 8:4.5.5-1" should work?
[12:27] <imbrandon> dpkg --compare-versions 3 gt 2 && echo yes, ladies
[12:27] <imbrandon> dpkg --compare-versions 1 gt 2 && echo yes, ladies
[12:27] <Tm_T> Hmm.
[12:27] <Tm_T> gt?
[12:27] <imbrandon> greater than , gt, lt , eq
[12:28] <Tm_T> I see.
[12:29] <Tm_T> Me stupid, I think I did read manual a bit too fast.
[12:30] <imbrandon> lol, nah
[12:30] <Sime> Riddell: did someone just hack dot.kde.org?
[12:30] <imbrandon> Sime, looks normal to me
[12:31] <Sime> imbrandon: try posting.
[12:31] <Sime> imbrandon: replying I mean.
[12:31] <Jucato> hi Sime! congrats on the nice job btw :)
[12:35] <Sime> Jucato: thanks
[12:37] <Sime> I guess Riddell is either sleeping or dead.
[12:37] <Jucato> O_O
[12:37] <Jucato> hopefully just sleeping :)
[12:38] <Tm_T> ...so why these flies then?
[12:41] <imbrandon> Sime, hrm i posted a reply just now
[12:41] <imbrandon> seems fine also
[12:41] <imbrandon> what are you noticing ?
[12:44] <Sime> from home it works fine, but from here at work...
[12:44] <Sime> I'll try to screenshot it.
[12:51] <mhb_> Sime: he deserves a rest, I guess
[12:52] <Sime> http://www.simonzone.com/weird_dot.png
[12:52] <Sime> this is what I get when I try to post from work.
[12:53] <imbrandon> sure, thats normal if your not logged in, click <moot>
[12:53] <imbrandon> like it says
[12:53] <kwwii> hehe, nice screenshot
[12:54] <imbrandon> heya kwwii :)
[12:55] <Sime> wtf
[12:55] <Sime> that's considered normal!?
[12:55] <Tm_T> Sime: Well well well, some router + dns hacked. =)
[12:55] <imbrandon> Sime, yes, you need to click <moot> to say your not a bot
[12:56] <Tm_T> imbrandon: ssshht!
[12:56] <Sime> I guess my problem is that it looks too l33t.
[12:57] <Jucato> Sime: I was just wondering if there would be a sort of wiki page explaining the changes made to media/ and / (hidden-root). So far, there have been no questions in IRC, but there are some in the forums (and in dot.kde)
[12:59] <Sime> Jucato: I guess I can write one later today. (unless someone else jumps in before me).
[01:00] <Jucato> Sime: that'd be great! so I'd have something to point to when people ask. right now I point to your blog, but I don't think people would like to see all the discussions there :P
[01:01] <Jucato> btw, I made an ubotu factoid just in case someone asks about it.
[01:01] <Jucato> !hidden
[01:01] <ubotu> Kubuntu Edgy has implemented a new feature that hides most of the filesystem. To view them, go to / (root) and select "Show hidden files" in the View menu. To change which directories are hidden, you can edit "/etc/kubuntu-default-settings/hidden-root" and remove the names of directories you want to make visible again. For more info: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKDEMedia and http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2231
[01:01] <Jucato> it's !hidden and !hidden-root
[01:01] <imbrandon> they should edit the symlink not the actualy file
[01:01] <imbrandon> incase it changes
[01:02] <Jucato> ah ok. so edit /.hidden instead?
[01:02] <imbrandon> yes
[01:02] <Jucato> ok I'll edit
[01:02] <Sime> it's it the file itself?? and not the symlink?
[01:02] <imbrandon> symlinks are subject to change, and later might be setup in alternatives
[01:02] <imbrandon> e.g. sudo nano /.hidden
[01:03] <imbrandon> so if we cahnge the location of the file its not a big deal
[01:03] <Jucato> ah. that's logical :)
[01:03] <Sime> ok, as long as people don't delete the symlink; It will came back in a later update.  I was expecting worse...
[01:09] <Jucato> yeah... anyway I'm leaving the factoid as it is. just edited the part about editing /.hidden
[01:09] <imbrandon> actualy i have seen alot of good responses on dot.kde.org, very very very few complain
[01:09] <Jucato> Sime: actually me too. I'm quite surprised no one has been complaining in IRC yet
[01:09] <imbrandon> Jucato, why are you suprised, like i said it affects very few people
[01:09] <Jucato> most of the complaints are coming from imbrandon's favorite online place :)
[01:10] <imbrandon> a few corner cases
[01:10] <imbrandon> exactly, now see why i hate that bane of the internet?
[01:10] <Jucato> specially those who keep on mounting stuff at /mnt :P
[01:10] <Sime> for such a big visual change, it has been well received, and understood by most people.
[01:10] <Jucato> or maybe some haven't even noticed... they're probably used to direct "kdesu kate /foo" or "sudo nano /foo"
[01:11] <mhb_> Sime: is it documented on the wiki already?
[01:11] <mhb_> Sime: some FAQ about it?
[01:11] <imbrandon> Jucato, and as i have said many times, the way to "fix" the problem is not to tell them how to edit the file or weather to delete it or not, its to fucking inform them MOUNT THE SHIT IN THE RIGHT PLACE :)
[01:11] <imbrandon> heheh
[01:11] <mhb_> imbrandon: we should provide some FAQ which we could point to
[01:11] <Jucato> imbrandon: yeah. (although I don't know the difference between mounting in /mnt and /media)....
[01:11] <imbrandon> mhb a faq about how to mount drives?
[01:11] <Jucato> mhb_: Sime said he'd be making a wiki
[01:12] <imbrandon> Jucato, /mnt is the old old way
[01:12] <Sime> mhb_: read the irc backlog (if you've got it :-) )
[01:12] <mhb_> imbrandon: no, the other one
[01:12] <mhb_> Sime: yeah, but not accessible today
[01:12] <mhb_> imbrandon: the thing Sime is making, if I understand correctly
[01:13] <mhb_> imbrandon: good then :o)
[01:13] <Sime> ..unless someone beats me to it. ;-)
[01:13] <Sime> hint hint
[01:13] <imbrandon> mhb , yes i knew what you ment, i was being sarcastic in that i feel its a waiste of time , better spent informing the loud minority of abusers to do things the right way
[01:14] <mhb_> imbrandon: if you point the minority to a FAQ you waste even less time
[01:14] <mhb_> imbrandon: that's what I meant
[01:14] <Jucato> that's why I made the factoid :P
[01:14] <Jucato> I'd hate having to argue/talk abut it
[01:14] <imbrandon> mhb that solves nothing, becouse in the long run they will still mount /mnt and complain they have to edit the /.hidden
[01:15] <Jucato> btw, I tested editing /.hidden to show /mnt again, and it works in Amarok's Build Collection. got to remember to reply to that thread...
[01:15] <imbrandon> btw , yea please reply to it telling the user to mount his partition in /media like it should be
[01:15] <imbrandon> Jucato, ^
[01:16] <imbrandon> thats the correct "fix"
[01:16] <Jucato> will do :)
[01:17] <mhb_> imbrandon: well they will, but we don't need to repeat 1000times why Kubuntu is like this and like that
[01:18] <imbrandon> short term fix will bite you in the long run, not good, point them to a faq about mounting partitions
[01:19] <mhb_> imbrandon: didn't mean the mounting partitions thing but the /.hidden stuff
[01:19] <mhb_> imbrandon: before Sime decided to make a page (or so I understood) there was almost nothing about it
[01:19] <mhb_> AFAIK
[01:19] <imbrandon> mhb .hidden only seems to need to be explained to idiots that comlain about stuff in /mnt thus the "root" of the problem
[01:19] <Jucato> mhb_: there was, but in Sime's blog
[01:20] <imbrandon> mhb no there are 2 very comprehensive pages about the changes
[01:20] <imbrandon> for those that want the "details" just for the sake of details
[01:20] <imbrandon> those that need it "explained" are becouse they are mounting the wrong way
[01:20] <Jucato> imbrandon: actually another "complaint" about it is implementing/hiding features without informing users, or just plainly hinding things...
[01:21] <imbrandon> Jucato, so to install digikam by default we need to get every users concent? that makes no sense and is just a gripe Jucato
[01:21] <Jucato> imbrandon: I think what mhb_ is looking for (which I'm probably looking for, too) is a doc that explains why it was done, how it was done, and how to get around it
[01:22] <Jucato> imbrandon: of course not. at least something telling them that this was done. there was no mention of it anywhere in any of the release notes
[01:22] <imbrandon> Jucato, sure then make one on why libnjb is compiled into amarok in edgy, why digikam is installed by default ..... want me to go on?
[01:23] <Jucato> um... those are probably not as "controversial" or "big" as this one... but ok... I'll stop...
[01:23] <imbrandon> Jucato, basicly becouse its a non-issue that a few ( 3 or 4 ) users are comlaining about becosue they are doing sometihng wrong, why would a simple change need a pressrelease
[01:23] <imbrandon> yes they are, they are just as "contriversial" as any other non-issue
[01:24] <imbrandon> it just dosent effect the "moaners" , but you wont beleave how many people bitch about extra libs installed that they dont use
[01:24] <mhb_> imbrandon: at least 10+ users complained about it when I asked them in my blog (in Czech)
[01:24] <mhb_> imbrandon: I think you're telling everyone to STFU which is not very Ubuntu-ish :o)) (no offence)
[01:24] <imbrandon> mhb , nice 10+ out of 12 million plus installs , very very very small percentage, thus my non-issue stance
[01:25] <imbrandon> i'm not telling everyone to STFU, i'm telling you to let them know how to fix it the "correct way" not some half baked hot-fix
[01:25] <mhb_> imbrandon: point me to a page where it is described which file in /etc you should change for disabling the /.hidden
[01:25] <mhb_> imbrandon: please
[01:26] <imbrandon> mhb there isnt one, nor there needs to be, point me to a page describing how to get rid of libnjb from amarok becouse i dont have a nomad player
[01:26] <imbrandon> see my point ?
[01:26] <mhb_> imbrandon: doesn't affect everyone, thus I can't
[01:26] <mhb_> imbrandon: there should be one
[01:27] <imbrandon> mhb and .hidden dosent effect everyone either, only those whom mount things wrong
[01:27] <mhb_> imbrandon: or like things not hidden
[01:27] <imbrandon> sure, then  its simply sudo nano /.hidden, why a faq for one command ?
[01:28] <imbrandon> i garentee someone that dosent "like" more libs installed cant run one command
[01:29] <mhb_> imbrandon: we should describe why we did this, how we did this and how to get rid of that (and why deleting /.hidden is not a good fix)
[01:29] <mhb_> imbrandon: yes, most of that is in Sime's blog, but that's no official doc
[01:31] <imbrandon> mhb not really, i dont think its worth the time spent on it, name a good reason ?
[01:31] <mhb_> imbrandon: how should I know rm /.hidden is a bad fix?
[01:31] <imbrandon> why shoudl i explain that any more than including libnjb
[01:32] <imbrandon> mhb if you have any reason to rm .hidden then you know that symlinks arent the real file
[01:32] <Jucato> "why did we hide the filesystem?"
[01:32] <imbrandon> if you dont know that then you should really be thinking about why you need .hidden gone
[01:32] <allee> imbrandon: as long as the .hidden is not to en/disable like dot-file in file dialog and konqueror, it's a usability bug that need to be fixed.  It's not about your/my taste, refering people to command line is not a fix, otherwise you can argue KDE away in favour of the shell ;)
[01:32] <imbrandon> allee, it is, "show hidden files"
[01:33] <mhb_> allee: it's not a bug, imbrandon is right about that
[01:33] <allee> oh, isn't this for dot-files.
[01:33] <kwwii> ahhh, features and power-users
[01:33] <mhb_> allee: but he will have to explain it 100 times
[01:33] <imbrandon> allee, .hidden and dot files can both be shown
[01:33] <mhb_> allee: and he's quite happy about it :o)
[01:33] <Jucato> kwwii: hehehe :)
[01:34] <imbrandon> mhb no i wont thats where your wrong, the only ones that ask have another root problem or are trolling is what i'm getting at
[01:34] <imbrandon> fix the root problem and ignore the trolls
[01:34] <allee> mhb_: explaining it 100 times is no problem ;)  We had/have to do it for sudo still ;)
[01:34] <imbrandon> allee, exactly
[01:35] <imbrandon> moins kwwii
[01:35] <mhb_> kwwii: hi
[01:36] <kwwii> hi mhb_
[01:36] <mhb_> imbrandon: if you insist :o) after all,it's your temper, not mine :o)
[01:36] <mhb_> imbrandon: I'll write a FAQ for the Czech users at least :o)
[01:37] <imbrandon> mhb :)
[01:37] <imbrandon> and i will get back to writing a kcontrol module to edit the .hidden and informing users to MOUNT IN THE CORRECT PLACE
[01:37] <Jucato> mhb_: and Sime will still try to write a wiki probably :)
[01:38] <imbrandon> faq == short term , bite you with more questions .... other fixes the issue
[01:38] <Jucato> imbrandon: ooh.. kcontrol module? nice :)
[01:38] <mhb_> imbrandon: hm, I wanted to do that, but Riddell said it would not likely be accepted ... interesting
[01:40] <mhb_> imbrandon: but if you have this blessing I support you all the way :o)
[01:40] <mhb_> s/this/his
[01:41] <imbrandon> i wasent aware anyone needed blessing from Riddell to work on a project ? dont get me wrong Riddell is the man but ummmm .... i dont quite understand your statement
[01:42] <imbrandon> if i do it and its not in "official" kubuntu thats one thing, but ummm that dosent stop anything hehe
[01:42] <mhb_> imbrandon: that's what I meant :o)
[01:43] <imbrandon> mhb , well not to take anything away from Riddell as he has the final say on what is or isnt in kubuntu but there are many , including me and you and kwwii and allee and Hobbsee and coutless others that work on things :)
[01:44] <imbrandon> some make it in , many others do not, but that dosent stop anyone or anything :)
[01:44] <mhb_> imbrandon: I just tend to ask around before starting anything
[01:45] <mhb_> imbrandon: that's my way, if you want to do something just for yourself you can, of course :o)
[01:45] <mhb_> imbrandon: I don't criticise you, I just remembered I asked Riddell about it ... nothing more
[01:45] <imbrandon> hehe i know
[01:45] <imbrandon> :)
[01:46] <imbrandon> mhb as you well know ( and many others ) i get "excited" easy , take it with some salt , its all good in the hood
[01:47] <mhb_> imbrandon: ok :o) keep on doing whatever you like, that's the best way
[01:49] <imbrandon> kwwii, http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss113.png <--- we going to try again to get Riddell to sucum to the kmenu in my screenshot ?
[01:49] <imbrandon> ( at mountain view hehe )
[01:50] <Tm_T> imbrandon: Aaah, oxygen!
[01:50] <imbrandon> Tm_T, yes oxygen :)
[01:52] <kwwii> hehe
[01:52] <imbrandon> hehe moins Riddell
[01:52] <Tm_T> What is default kmenu?
[01:52] <kwwii> hi Riddell
[01:52] <imbrandon> Riddell, but you cant blame me for trying
[01:56] <kwwii> I think that the problem with using the kubuntu logo there is that it does not visually tell me that it is a menu
[01:57] <kwwii> I think the kde logo has the same problem though
[01:57] <mhb_> kwwii: that's what I wanted to say
[01:57] <imbrandon> kwwii, yea
[01:57] <mhb_> kwwii: is it going to change in O. ?
[01:57] <mhb_> (the K menu icon)
[01:58] <kwwii> no idea
[01:58] <Hobbsee> morning Riddell
[02:00] <mhb_> Riddell: your biggest fan welcomes you :o)
[02:01] <Hobbsee> mhb_: if that was in reference to me....
[02:02] <Hobbsee> then i will *certainly* use my long pointy stick of doom on you.
[02:02] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: that icon is very dark.  lighter, and it would be good.
[02:03] <imbrandon> i just took the orig and shrinked it, but yea
[02:03] <Jucato> imbrandon: me likey :)
[02:04] <mhb_> Hobbsee: nope
[02:04] <Hobbsee> mhb_: oh good.
[02:04] <mhb_> Hobbsee: don't you know I'm his biggest fan? :o)
[02:04] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:04] <Jucato> but kwwii's right about it not looking like a menu/button :)
[02:05] <kwwii> hehe
[03:24] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:24] <Hobbsee> BOO!
[03:25] <bddebian> aaahh
[03:25] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[03:26] <Hobbsee> hehehe
[03:44] <Tm_T> Hi Hobbsee.
[03:45] <Hobbsee> hey Tm_T :)
[03:46] <Hobbsee> goldenear: kontact is in kdepim
[03:46] <goldenear> ?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> goldenear: the bug report you just filed?
[03:47] <goldenear> ah ok...
[03:47] <Hobbsee> goldenear: (yes, i'm omnipresent, so know that you just filed a bug, and what it contains :P)
[03:48] <goldenear> launch pad propose me to fill the bug in kontact package after a search... but kdepim it ok :)
[03:48] <goldenear> Hobbsee: are you a goddess or something ?
[03:48] <goldenear> ;)
[03:48] <Hobbsee> goldenear: indeed.  well, so people say.
[03:49] <goldenear> and How many bugs do we have to sacrify to make you happy ? :D
[03:49] <mhb_> Hobbsee: the goddess of hope, the goddess of brown, the goddess of all that you've burned to the ground ... (can't help myself)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> goldenear: to sacrify?  to fix, more like it!
[03:50] <Hobbsee> goldenear: all of them :P
[03:50] <Hobbsee> mhb_: why the goddess of brown?  last i knew, i wasnt the goddess of ubuntu
[03:51] <mhb_> Hobbsee: it's a song nobody knows
[03:51] <Hobbsee> ahh
[03:53] <goldenear> [15:47]  * Hobbsee fixed it <-- you mean you've already fix the bug or only the lauchpad entry ?
[03:53] <Hobbsee> goldenear: i fixed the LP entry.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> goldenear: i dont fix things in kdepim :P
[03:55] <Tm_T> =)
[03:55] <goldenear> you're not a very powerfull goddess then :p
[03:55] <Tm_T> Hide are sharp objects!
[03:56] <Tm_T> s/are/all/
[03:56] <Tm_T> =)
[03:56] <Tm_T> !away
[03:56] <ubotu> Please don't use public away messages or change your nick to 'someone|away'.  We know you're away when you don't respond to messages. Also see !guidelines
[03:58] <Tm_T> =)
[03:58] <Tm_T> I forgot how funny it can be under medication.
[03:58] <Tm_T> Oh well, fixing my back. ->
[04:07] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, guess we do have konvi
[04:14] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: Unusable when you have problems with X though.
[04:22] <Hobbsee_> Tm_T: true that
[04:22] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  i wonder if knetworkmanager just doesnt work on the live cd at all
[04:35] <Sime> concerning that "Hidden Files" wiki page that I'm supposed to be writing. What should it be linked from?
[04:37] <jucato> hm...
[04:37] <jucato> no response :)
[04:38] <mhb_> Sime: some release notes, I guess
[04:38] <mhb_> Sime: or What's New (if there is such a page)
[04:52] <MidMark> is there a chance for that error? -> http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0569qy1.jpg
[04:53] <Hobbsee> MidMark: that's not an error
[04:53] <Sime> mhb_: it is not very clear where it should go.
[04:53] <Hobbsee> MidMark: well, what are you meaning is an error?
[04:53] <MidMark> Hobbsee: but a friend of mine cannot boot edgy
[04:53] <MidMark> and this is the screenshot with nosplah flag
[04:53] <Hobbsee> MidMark: that's booted, and dropped into a virtual terminal.
[04:54] <nixternal> moins
[04:54] <Hobbsee> or do you get an X when you boot with nosplash?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> i didnt think so
[04:54] <MidMark> I don't know
[04:54] <MidMark> nosplash should give X or not?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> it doesnt usually, last i checked
[04:55] <MidMark> so how can I check for errors during boot?
[04:55] <MidMark> which flags?
[04:55] <MidMark> because live cd freeze
[04:55] <Hobbsee> check /var/log/syslog
[04:55] <MidMark> how can I do if it freeze?
[04:55] <Hobbsee> and boot in recovery mode
[04:55] <Hobbsee> it should automatically get written to.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> i think alt+a+sys req or something forces it to write to the file
[04:56] <MidMark> recovery mode=safe graphic?
[04:57] <Hobbsee> recovery mode = no graphics
[04:58] <MidMark> I need the parameter that tell me how to boot a live cd but ONLY without splash screen, just to see error
[04:59] <Hobbsee> oh, a live cd..
[04:59] <Hobbsee> yeah, try safe graphics
[04:59] <MidMark> ok
[05:00] <MidMark> it's a shame that kubuntu doesn't let to just hit ESC and see what is printed by kernel and other stuff
[05:00] <MidMark> it's a painful to understand why it's freezing
[05:01] <jucato> I thought pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1 will let you see the boot process, even with USplash running? iirc...
[05:01] <Hobbsee> jucato: not anymore, particualrly
[05:01] <jucato> night Hobbsee!
[05:01] <jucato> aw...
[05:01] <jucato> :(
[05:01] <Hobbsee> and there is something that gives a semi-verbose mode
[05:01] <Hobbsee> or something
[05:01] <MidMark> ok thanx
[05:02] <mhb_> Sime: do you have it ready?
[05:02] <Sime> mhb_: I was working on it. :)
[05:02] <mhb_> Sime: the wiki page, I mean
[05:02] <Sime> I was writing the text here first.
[05:03] <mhb_> Sime: oh, ok
[05:09] <MidMark> buys how can I check errors printed on boot if boot freeze?
[05:11] <mhb_> MidMark: if you boot the Recovery mode you should see them right away
[05:12] <MidMark> I'm in a live cd, what is revocery mode for you?
[05:12] <MidMark> safe graphics?
[05:13] <mhb_> one moment
[05:21] <mhb_> MidMark: not safe graphics
[05:21] <MidMark> so what?
[05:22] <MidMark> how can I access to recovery mode?
[05:23] <mhb_> MidMark: got it :o)
[05:23] <mhb_> MidMark: choose other options
[05:23] <mhb_> MidMark: F6 I think
[05:23] <MidMark> ok
[05:24] <mhb_> MidMark: then remove the "quiet" option and the "splash" option and add "nosplash"
[05:24] <Sime> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHiddenFiles
[05:24] <Sime> mhb_: ping
[05:24] <mhb_> Sime: great, thanks
[05:24] <mhb_> Sime: I appreciate both the fix and the wiki
[05:25] <MidMark> thx
[05:26] <mhb_> Sime: someone noted that this may not be in accordance with the FHS ... was that problem resolved?
[05:27] <Sime> mhb_: why would it be a problem? having a file in / ?
[05:27] <imbrandon> hum anyone know whom John Tapsell is ?
[05:27] <mhb_> Sime: I think it was fdoving ... yes, having a "special" file in /
[05:28] <mhb_> Sime: quote: " Applications must never create or require special files or subdirectories in
[05:28] <mhb_> enough flexibility for any package.
[05:28] <mhb_> "
[05:28] <mhb_> the root directory. Other locations in the FHS hierarchy provide more than
[05:28] <mhb_> and sorry about the "\n"s
[05:28] <Sime> mhb_: I don't think the FHS applies to this case.
[05:28] <imbrandon> that was solved when it moved to /etc/ and symlinked wasent it
[05:29] <mhb_> imbrandon: well symlink is a "special" file, AFAIK
[05:29] <Sime> I don't think the FHS people has this in mind when they thought that rule up.
[05:29] <Sime> it is not created by an application either.
[05:29] <Sime> nor is it required.
[05:30] <Jucato> but aren't there also a vmlinuz and a initrd.img symlink in /
[05:30] <Sime> can someone link that page in somewhere.
[05:30] <mhb_> Sime: dpkg can be considered an application :o)
[05:30] <Sime> Jucato: yeah, I saw that too. :-/
[05:30] <mhb_> Sime: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.txt.gz
[05:31] <Jucato> Sime: is it ok if I use that wiki for the bot factoid?
[05:31] <mhb_> Sime: but I agree, it's no big deal
[05:31] <Sime> Jucato: doesn't worry me.
[05:33] <Jucato> !hidden
[05:33] <ubotu> Kubuntu Edgy has implemented a new feature that hides most of the filesystem. For more information: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHiddenFiles
[05:33] <Jucato> now it looks shorter :D
[05:49] <MidMark> mhb_: ok, it hangs here -> http://img312.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0572gs6.jpg
[06:02] <fdoving> gah.. another bug with the .hidden stuff.
[06:02] <Jucato> ??
[06:02] <Sime> fdoving: what's up?
[06:03] <Jucato> what's the bug this time? :)
[06:03] <fdoving> Sime: open the konq in file manager mode, press F9 to get the sidebar choose root directory (red folder)
[06:04] <fdoving> even with hidden files shown you will only have /home and /media in the directory tree.
[06:04] <fdoving> that sucks.
[06:04] <Jucato> er yeah...
[06:04] <Jucato> confirmed
[06:05] <Sime> yeah, konq sidebar doesn't understand hidden.
[06:05] <fdoving> i must admit this feature is not on my top 10 features in edgy list.
[06:06] <Jucato> btw, CD icons on the desktop no longer show the name/label of the CD, just cdrom0 or cdrom1
[06:06] <Jucato> dunno if that's a feature or a bug...
[06:07] <fdoving> Sime: I edited the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHiddenFiles page a little. Added GTK section + small fixes, don't know if all are to the better. please take a look.
[06:08] <Sime> looks fine
[06:09] <Jucato> (that borker guy is making a lot of noise about this...)
[06:11] <fdoving> I can only agree with people complaining about this feature.
[06:11] <Jucato> excuse me Sime, I'm just curious if Launch Feedback was accidentally left out of System Settings?
[06:12] <Sime> you'll have to ask El about that.
[06:12] <Jucato> ah ok
[06:12] <Jucato> dang she just left...
[06:16] <mhb_> MidMark: I'll take a look
[06:17] <MidMark> mhb_: thanx a lot
[06:18] <mhb_> MidMark: hm, so kernel booted fine ...
[06:18] <mhb_> MidMark: did you check the CD for errors?
[06:18] <MidMark> no I can check
[06:19] <mhb_> MidMark: /etc/rc.local should be empty, at least it's empty on the installed Kubuntu system
[06:19] <MidMark> and on live cd?
[06:20] <mhb_> MidMark: I guess as well, this is a weird freeze point, better check the CD first
[06:22] <MidMark> ok
[06:31] <MidMark> mhb_: pressing enter after the rc.local it shows the command prompt
[06:32] <MidMark> X problem?
[06:32] <MidMark> now I'm checking the cd
[06:32] <mhb_> MidMark: could be an X problem
[06:35] <MidMark> then starting with startx will show the errors?
[06:35] <nixternal> Riddell: ping?
[06:35] <mhb_> MidMark: exactly
[07:02] <Pupeno_> Hello.
[07:04] <MidMark> mhb_: seems X -> http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0577go8.jpg
[07:06] <Mez> who wa it who does the newsletter ?
[07:07] <fdoving> ubuntu weekly?
[07:12] <Pupeno_> Sorry for the off-topic, but doesn't anybody know of a workarround to install on a reiserfs partition using Kubuntu Edgy (Dapper just worked) ? I've created the partitions by hand (cfdisk) but choosing to install in them makes the install complaint about "No root filesystem".
[07:17] <fdoving> are you using the alternate cd?
[07:24] <Pupeno_> fdoving: no.
[07:25] <fdoving> not sure if installing to reiser is supported by the live/desktop cd.
[07:26] <Pupeno_> fdoving: I know it isn't, but the limitation is due to be able to make the partitions, not being unable to mount them or copy files into it. I have already made the partitions and the filesystem by hand, the installer refuses to install.
[07:27] <Pupeno_> Dapper just worked there.
[07:30] <nixternal> firefox front page bug 65685
[07:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65685 in kubuntu-docs ""About Kubuntu" missing "wonderful-linux.html"" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65685
[07:30] <nixternal> that isn't a kubuntu-docs issue, that is an /etc/alternatives issue
[07:31] <nixternal> what package deals with the etc/alt and the firefox homepage?
[07:43] <nixternal> nm, found it
[07:43] <fdoving> kubuntu-docs :)
[07:49] <nixternal> easiest fix would be to create a link in the ubuntu-artwork/home directory to the wonderful-linux.html file in /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/ direcotry
[07:57] <fdoving> isn't it easier to change the url in the postinst script to file:///usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html ?
[07:57] <nixternal> that is how it should be
[07:58] <fdoving> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 59 2006-10-27 00:55 firefox-homepage -> /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html
[07:58] <fdoving> in my /etc/alternatives
[08:03] <fdoving> ah.
[08:03] <nixternal> ya
[08:03] <fdoving> now i understand.
[08:03] <nixternal> hehe
[08:04] <nixternal> it took me a second as well...
[08:04] <nixternal> but if there is going to be links, there needs to either be more than 1, or they set the homepage to read directly from the doc dir
[08:05] <nixternal> the 2 pita bugs have been linked to /etc/alternatives (usplash and firefox homepage)...that is part of the reason i can't stand /etc/alternatives..it is turning into a nightmare
[08:05] <fdoving> relative links will break this way.
[08:06] <fdoving> there is also a hackish alternative, i tend to use when i make homepages. forwarding with html-refresh.
[08:06] <nixternal> actually, the firefox package probably has a file that sets the homepage to /etc/alternatives
[08:07] <nixternal> that would be a simple "hackish" fix for sure
[08:14] <fdoving> nixternal: example; http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/ffhelp.html.txt
[08:14] <nixternal> ya
[08:15] <fdoving> i think that is as good as symlinking the whole dir.
[08:16] <nixternal> well symlinking the whole directory causes the pages to open, but there is no formatting to them
[08:16] <nixternal> so symlinking the entire directory fixes the 404 error, but there is no formatting at all from the css files
[08:17] <nixternal> i will leave that one up to Riddell
[08:18] <fdoving> adding it to the package as redirect.html or something. and then link file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html to it, instead of /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/index.html
[08:18] <nixternal> that would be easy to do
[08:19] <nixternal> and would be the way i would fix this now for edgy, and worry about a "real" fix for feisty
[08:19] <nixternal> which we are already planning on a total documentation rewrite
[08:19] <fdoving> and it would work. No need to make symlink-mania.
[09:13] <nixternal> Riddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu-docs.debdiff
[09:17] <Riddell> thanks nixternal
[09:18] <nixternal> hope that is alright for the debdiff, but no problem...im pretty sure you are swamped right now
[09:19] <mhb_> Riddell: have you discussed with somone the possibility of translating directory names through a .directory file?
[09:19] <mhb_> Riddell: I just wonder...
[10:19] <Sime> is anyone using strigi?
[10:22] <fdoving> have it installed.. don't use it much.
[10:22] <Sime> is it any good?
[10:25] <fdoving> the daemon crashes alot here on powerpc. can't really tell if it is any good. promising.
[10:29] <nixternal> i have messed with strigi and it is a pita
[10:29] <nixternal> it never once worked well for me
[10:29] <nixternal> so i apt-got removed it
[11:43] <Mez> Riddell: ping
[11:47] <fdoving> hmm.. so the kubuntu special-upgrade section is removed from EdgyUpgrades ?
[12:02] <Mez> anyone around ?
[12:04] <nixternal> physically yes, mentally no
[12:05] <Mez> nixternal, fancy doing some katapult testing ?
[12:05] <nixternal> sure can
[12:05] <nixternal> i would love to have kwrite in katapult ;)
[12:05] <Mez> kwrite in katapult ?
[12:06] <nixternal> yup
[12:06] <Mez> how do you mean ?
[12:06] <nixternal> so when i alt+space, i can type "kwrite" and it would open ;)
[12:06] <Mez> nixternal, and what does it do now
[12:06] <nixternal> it doesn't recognize kwrite
[12:06] <Mez> do you have a K Menu entry for it ?
[12:06] <nixternal> hrmm
[12:07] <nixternal> nope
[12:07] <nixternal> if it is in kmenu, then it will be in katapult?
[12:07] <Mez> nixternal, it works on K menu entries ;)
[12:07] <nixternal> sweet
[12:07] <Mez> nixternal, you might have to restart katapult, but yes
[12:07] <nixternal> i have been wanting to know, and now i do ;)
[12:12] <nixternal> `woohoo
[12:12] <nixternal> ok, what needs testing?
[12:14] <Mez> you ok to compile or want me to build a .deb?


[06:25] <Laibsch> cjwatson, xnox: I guess you've seen my application for PPU?  I haven't heard a thing about it since.  Is everything on track?
[08:06] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <pitti> jodh: FYI, I add some bugs to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1411-systemd-migration which correspond to some of the WIs, so we don't need to duplicate all of those as textual WIs
[08:10]  * didrocks is listening to the session
[08:13] <jodh> pitti: thanks!
[08:25] <pitti> jodh: so everything in "Blockers for switching the default in vivid" is now covered by linked bugs, your automatic list, and one remaining WI which I just added
[08:26] <pitti> jodh: I also added two "nice to have" WIs for me, but the WI list is of course not complete yet
[08:26] <pitti> jodh: I don't want to meddle too much with your BP (you are the drafter, after all), so feel free to move around the milestones etc.
[08:44] <LocutusOfBorg1> wow I triggered a bug in launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars/+bug/1393202
[08:44] <LocutusOfBorg1> I can't change the status
[08:44] <LocutusOfBorg1> lol
[08:51] <pitti> LocutusOfBorg1: try the expander on the left and then change the status with the combobox
[08:52] <pitti> (I don't see the AJAXy change status either)
[08:57] <LocutusOfBorg1> pitti, yes, I already did the workaround, I was just reporting a bug :)
[08:57] <LocutusOfBorg1> thanks
[09:07] <didrocks> pitti: 2 things while I'm thinking about them: during the systemd session, you are talking about session not properly shutting down, this is I guess the timeout I'm seeing (like 30s with no screen refresh) before having the system brutally stopping?
[09:08] <pitti> didrocks: I sometimes get the 90 s timeout on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>shutdown (something is hanging there); but there's nothing about "brutally" stopping, it's just killing that<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:09] <didrocks> pitti: I get it at each shutdown it seems, didn't find a bug about it though?
[09:09] <pitti> didrocks: oh? I don't get this
[09:09] <pitti> didrocks: I sometimes see it in an nspawn'ed vivid instance
[09:09] <didrocks> ok, will be a nice next-step exercise for debugging it seems
[09:10] <didrocks> ah, if I can reproduce it here, would be easier to debug
[09:10] <pitti> didrocks: right; enabling the debug shell, and while it's hanging check systemctl about what it's hanging on?
[09:10] <didrocks> pitti: will do (opening http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/ for enabling the debug shell)
[09:11] <didrocks> pitti: second thing is that we don't enable journald persistency across reboots (there isn't the /var/log/journald IIRC directory created)
[09:11] <didrocks> is that on purpose?
[09:12] <pitti> didrocks: I haven't thought about this yet TBH; I guess we shoudl only have that *or* rsyslog by default, otherwise we waste twice the amount of log file space?
[09:12] <didrocks> exactly
[09:13] <didrocks> so, something to discuss, I find it weird for users that they can see only current journald boot, and have to go to rsyslog for older entries (and less info)
[09:13] <didrocks> but the opposite is true as well anyway :)
[09:14] <pitti> yeah; but I think I'd rather have it this way around, and then decide at some point to drop rsyslog by default and switch on persistant journal
[09:14] <pitti> didrocks: even more clever would be to auto-enable persistant journal dependeing on whether rsylog is enabled :)
[09:14] <didrocks> good idea!
[09:14]  * didrocks notes down as an easy one
[09:17] <jodh> pitti: I don't mind - feel free - it's going to have to be a team effort after all :)
[09:24] <pitti> hm, I was about to test LVM+encrypted, but this seems broken in vivid :( (bug 1393341)
[09:25]  * pitti downloads an utopic ISO and tries with that
[10:31] <pitti> slangasek, jodh: yay, cryptsetup+systemd works fine; both the full LVM with root (thus asking in initramfs), and only /home on LUKS (thus asking in the real system)
[10:46] <caribou> Laney: I just created a backport bug for tcpdump; should I assign it to myself while I complete some of the testing ?
[10:46] <Laney> caribou: sounds reasonable
[10:46] <caribou> Laney: k, will do
[11:13] <LocutusOfBorg1> seb128, sorry for the typo on bug 1367260
[12:49] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg1, no worry
[13:00] <cjwatson> pitti: question for you in bug 1393341, since you're unfortunate enough to have touched lvm2 last :-)
[13:02] <pitti> cjwatson: ah yeah, thanks; yeah, I fixed the init.d script once and it seems now I need to maintain it forever without understandin a thing about our delta :/
[13:03] <caribou> Laney: I tested everything required for the tcpdump backport  & everything is ok. So I'm leaving the bug unassigned
[13:03] <cjwatson> heh, well, it was a question more than a request :)
[13:03] <cjwatson> I don't claim to understand our delta either
[13:03] <pitti> but yes, "we should merge LVM2" indeed
[13:08] <pitti> cjwatson: everyone who did (kees, xnox) left, so I guess we'll have to make-do; I'll try to have a look at it soon, but I can only test it in a rather limited fashion
[13:14] <cjwatson> pitti: if it can't be done in some reasonably short period (by which I don't mean to rush you), then I guess the alternatives are to cherry-pick that option into lvcreate, to patch it out of partman-lvm (but then we risk forgetting about it and it'll likely break again later), or to figure out if partman-lvm can be made to work with both old and new lvm2
[13:14] <cjwatson> the problem was IIRC that new lvm2 broke partman-lvm differently without that option
[13:32] <xnox> cjwatson: pitti: partman-lvm & lvm2 need merging?
[13:32]  * xnox can look at that in the evening.
[13:34] <cjwatson> partman-lvm is in sync.  lvm2 needs merging.
[13:34] <xnox> ack.
[13:34] <xnox> slangasek: you should pinch hallyn into foundations team ;-)
[15:23] <pitti> zul: hah! got it
[15:23] <pitti> zul: adt-run --apt-pocket=proposed -U keystone --- qemu /srv/vm/adt-vivid-amd64-cloud.img --cpus 2
[15:23] <pitti> zul: that's the bit that the wiki page is missing; we run with 2 virtual CPUs by default, thus SMP
[15:24] <pitti> zul: with that I can reproduce the segfault fairly reliably (4 out of 5 runs)
[15:24] <pitti> zul: sorry, not segfault, it's a SIGKILL
[15:24] <zul> ah ok :)
[15:25] <pitti> zul: it also happens in vivid-release (adt-run keystone --- qemu /srv/vm/adt-vivid-amd64-cloud.img --cpus 2), so not a regression
[15:25] <pitti> zul: but "fails on machines with more CPU" still sounds rather serious?
[15:25] <zul> pitti:  so is there something i can do
[15:27] <pitti> zul: I'm ok with letting python-babel and python-keystoneclient in, as this isn't a regression from those two; but this will still hit the next time, of course
[15:28] <zul> pitti:  eventlet as well?
[15:29] <pitti> zul: yes
[15:30] <zul> pitti:  ok thanks
[16:35] <pitti> zul: FYI, keeping track/notes in bug during autopkgtest
[16:35] <pitti> bah, weechat
[16:35] <pitti> or, rather, bah firefox
[16:35] <pitti> zul: bug 1393474
[16:37] <zul> pitti: ack
[16:56] <chiluk> hey infinity I know you are sprinting and stuff but can I get some upload love on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/1391662
[18:00] <tkamppeter> Does someone know about the Python3 support of pyqt4? There is a python-qt4-dbus but no python3-qt4-dbus for example.
[18:01] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I think you want python3-pyqt4.
[18:02] <cjwatson> IIRC they took the opportunity of adding python3-* to fix some naming mistakes.
[18:03] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, and pyqt4-dev-tools?
[18:04] <jtaylor> those are binaries and don't need modules
[18:04] <jtaylor> *provide
[18:05] <tkamppeter> What replaces python-imagin in Python3
[18:05] <jtaylor> python3-pil
[18:07] <tkamppeter> jtaylor, if hplip build-depends on pyqt4-dev-tools, what does it need when ported to Python3?
[18:07] <jtaylor> the same package
[18:08] <tkamppeter> python3-gobject-2?
[18:08] <jtaylor> you shouldn't need to care if binaries need python2 or 3
[18:08] <jtaylor> unless there is a packaging mistake of course
[18:08] <panbalag>  Looking for any developer who has updated the fields "when, Confirmed, Assigned, Started work, Completed" in launchpad while working on a bug... Please reply back if you have updated any of these fields. I would like to clarify the definition for these fields.
[18:09] <cjwatson> python3-gi would be more usual for gobject-related stuff
[18:09] <cjwatson> python-gobject-2 is the deprecated old-style bindings that AFAIK weren't updated to Python 3 (see python-gi for the new-style ones in Python 2)
[18:10] <tkamppeter> python3-notify?
[18:10] <tkamppeter> python-notify
[18:12] <tkamppeter> What replaces python-notify in Python3?
[18:14] <ScottK> mitya57: Why did we not make a python3-pyqt4-dev for the sip files?  Did we conclude they were the same for python/python3?
[18:15] <cjwatson> It looks as though python-notify has never been ported to Python 3, but there's a separate python-notify2 package (slightly different API, apparently) that has been, as python3-notify2.
[18:21] <dobey> panbalag: those sound like blueprint fields, not bug fields
[18:23] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, jtaylor, ScottK: Thank you very much.
[19:11] <mitya57> ScottK: they are the same
[19:11] <mitya57> http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2014-August/034612.html
[19:11] <ScottK> mitya57: Thanks.
[19:33] <undRmindcntrlX2>  Does ubuntu error reporting send error data encrypted?
[20:01] <dobey> Unit193: it's uploaded over https, yes, if that's what you're asking
[20:42] <dj> hello
[20:43] <dj> i have a question to ask?
[20:43] <Noskcaj> !ask | dj
[20:45] <dj> How the installation process goes on ubuntu?
[21:33] <rbasak> arges: https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=56919#c6 is the deep dive / full description of the issue.
[21:33] <arges> rbasak: cool reading through all that now
[21:52] <Unit193> dobey: I'm not the droid you're looking for. ;)
[21:54] <dobey> oh. bloody people asking questions and then quitting five minutes later
[21:56] <Unit193> Yep. :/
[21:56] <dobey> oh well


 It's been over 2 years now. Can I be unbanned?
[02:32] <nalioth> ubottu: tell efrem_s about yourself
[03:42] <nalioth> well. that was interesting.
[03:42] <nalioth> nzk: we've seen your request, no need to idle here.
[03:42] <nzk> :(
[04:37] <Flannel> here we go again!
[04:44] <nalioth> emergency over
[04:44] <nalioth> tor closed, instigator removed
[04:44] <Flannel> well, IPNix... ah
[04:44] <Flannel> same person makes sense
[04:44] <Flannel> could've told me that two minutes ago, I couldve made it so I didn't have to manually remove my bans :)
[04:45] <nalioth> i just did it  :(
[04:45] <Flannel> hehe
[10:21] <jussi01> la de da...
[10:22] <Seeker`> lo
[10:22] <jussi01> Hiya Seeker`
[10:39] <Myrtti> pweet
[10:40] <Myrtti> nzk: as nalioth said earlier, your request has been noted and there's no need for you to idle here
[10:42]  * elkbuntu huggles Myrtti
[13:27] <Myrtti> PriceChild, nalioth...
[14:00] <elkbuntu> Myrtti?
[14:11] <Myrtti> nuthin :-}
[14:40] <Pici> Would it be concidered an overreaction if I asked ubotuu to change his name?
[14:40] <bazhang> no
[14:42] <LjL> Pici: that one isn't registered by us?
[14:42] <LjL> well, it's registered by *someone*
[14:42] <Pici> I'm not sure who<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is
[14:42] <LjL> me neither
[14:43] <LjL> but it might be one of our countless shell accounts possibly
[14:43] <LjL> still, i wouldn't know the password for it anyway
[14:45] <LjL> Pici: i'd just wait for him to quit and then grab the account myself
[15:38] <danbhfive> I would like to ask why my edits to ubottu were rejected
[15:39] <Myrtti> which ones in particular - I've not seen any edits from you recently
[15:39] <danbhfive> well, they were from 2 days ago
[15:39] <Myrtti> aha
[15:39]  * Myrtti checks
[15:39] <jussi01> [04:51:15] <ubottu> In ubottu, danbhfive said: !no, partitioning is <reply> For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/switching/installing-partitioning.html or https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/hardware/C/disks.html - For partitioning programs see !GParted or !QTParted - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
[15:39] <danbhfive> I have no idea how long it takes for reviews, whatever, so I've been waiting
[15:40] <jussi01> !partioning
[15:40] <jussi01> !partitioning
[15:41] <danbhfive> partitioning is 2 years old and is incorrect for hardy...  thats why I tried to update it
[15:41] <jussi01> danbhfive: the only issue I have, is your edit is very long
[15:42] <jussi01> perhaps suggest something without the urls?
[15:42] <danbhfive> well, it needs at least one url, right?  so people can get help with partitioning
[15:42] <Myrtti> !pidgin
[15:42] <Myrtti> !webcam
[15:43] <Myrtti> !wireless
[15:43] <jussi01> !fstab
[15:44] <jussi01> !no, partitioning is <reply> For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/switching/installing-partitioning.html - For partitioning programs see !GParted or !QTParted - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
[15:44] <danbhfive> jussi01: though I totally understand your concern about the length, i kinda felt that as I was making it
[15:45] <jussi01> danbhfive: was that the only edit you suggested?
[15:45] <jussi01> !-partition
[15:45] <jussi01> !partition
[15:45] <jussi01> !no, disks is <reply> For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/switching/installing-partitioning.html - For partitioning programs see !GParted or !QTParted - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
[15:46] <jussi01> !no, partitioning is <alias>disks
[15:47] <danbhfive> I edited wireless and webcam to include links to FSF pages which list purchasable hardware in those catagories.  I myself have always wondered how I can find a compatible webcam and wireless card, so I was glad to find the FSF pages
[15:50] <danbhfive> if those were rejected based on length, then maybe a new factoid: !freehardware is <reply> For a list of devices that support linux, visit http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/              and then just add !freehardware to the end of !wireless and !webcam?
[15:50] <jrib> !hardware
[15:50] <jrib> why not add it those wiki pages?
[15:51] <danbhfive> ill take a look, one sec
[15:51] <jrib> it's already there :)
[16:00] <danbhfive> well, it doesn't seem organized to help you actually buy a compatible product.  It just lists  everything (by manufacturer? how is that helpful?), and whether or not the item is compatible, and then gives people's experience.  It seems more about helping you to determine whether or not a specific device can work.
[16:00] <danbhfive> Personally, I found the site to be unusable, and the FSF to be much better organized.  I just bought a wireless card based off of the FSF site, and I'm thinking about getting a webcam using that site too.  If you really think the ubuntu sites can help someone make a buying decision, then thats the decision.  Anyway, thats my case.  I'll leave it to you
[16:00] <jrib> danbhfive: I meant the fsf link is on the wiki page under Resources
[16:00] <jrib> It may be better to try to reorganize the wiki
[16:01] <danbhfive> ah yes, it is
[16:01] <jussi01> danbhfive: if you have a LP account, you could do some wiki work - it is a wiki after all...
[16:02] <danbhfive> mk, Ill look into that
[16:02] <danbhfive> thats probably the better idea
[16:03] <Myrtti> yeah, the factoids are only meant to be pointers to the wiki and official documentation
[16:03] <Pici> I don't think he saw that.
[16:04] <Myrtti> neither do I, but look how much I care
[16:04] <Myrtti> >< this much
[16:04] <Myrtti> it doesn't matter anyway
[16:05] <Myrtti> you folks said it already
[16:11] <jussi01> hrm, I wonder how I get this sucker of a webcam to work...
[16:30] <jussi01> !schedule
[16:30] <jussi01> @schedule
[16:30] <jussi01> oh meh
[16:31] <Myrtti> @now
[16:31] <Myrtti> a-ha
[17:00] <jussi01> some bot abuse in -ot if some one wants to look in
[17:00] <jussi01> nudge, Myrtti
[17:46] <arquebus> I cant get into #ubuntu-es , I think the channel has been hacked/taken over
[17:49] <jussi01> arquebus: loco channels are dealt with in #ubuntu-irc
[17:50] <arquebus> ok, thanks jussi01
[17:50] <jussi01> LjL: ping?
[17:54] <jussi01> Lauantai pussit! :D
[17:54] <jussi01> and its only tuesday :D
[17:55] <Myrtti> dirty cheeky bastard
[17:55] <Myrtti> goddamnit irssi BEND TO MY WILL
[19:00] <LjL> pretty darn hard to take over a channel on freenode...
[19:02] <ompaul> LjL, depends
[19:02] <ompaul> process/time
[19:02]  * Myrtti yawns
[19:05] <LjL> ... why exactly am i banned from -irc, by the way?
[19:06] <Flannel> LjL: because you're a trouble maker!
[19:07] <Myrtti> LjL: good question
[19:07] <LjL> uh, i have the answer though
[19:07] <LjL> i'm banned because i had banned myself
[19:07] <LjL> for some reason...
[19:08] <LjL> Myrtti: meh. it's still all your fault
[19:08] <LjL> [
[19:08] <LjL> 21:54] <Myrtti> var tyst nu
[19:08] <LjL> [21:55] *** ChanServ sets mode +o LjL
[19:08] <LjL> [21:55] *** LjL sets mode +b ljl!*@*
[19:08] <LjL> [21:55] <LjL> ok
[19:09] <Myrtti> well there you go then
[19:09] <Myrtti> women. the source of all evil
[19:09] <Myrtti> I unbanned you tho
[19:09] <LjL> yeah /cs unban wouldn't work
[19:09] <LjL> i miss logs now though, annoying
[19:11] <LjL> hm i guess being banned during the service change prevented me from getting everyone else's flags, funny
[19:16] <Myrtti> but you can join it now, right?
[19:16] <Pici> He is there now.
[19:17] <LjL> yes yes
[19:18] <LjL> Myrtti: but i didn't have op access
[19:18] <LjL> i was in the access list, but only with +iA (which is, nothing)
[19:18] <Myrtti> right
[19:18] <LjL> bit weird that the services update would look at the +b list, wonder why
[19:52] <PriceChild> LjL: did you get the channel you wanted?
[20:09] <jussi01> PriceChild: Hey! :)
[20:09] <PriceChild> jussi01: hi there
[20:10] <jussi01> PriceChild: so whats the proceedure? Is the cc meeting tonight going to cover the IRC council stuff? or? (yes, I know its not on the agenda, but that means nothing...)
[20:11] <Seeker`> when is the cc meeting?
[20:11] <PriceChild> Nope that isn't planned, I'm not sure we need a cc meeting to do this.
[20:12] <jussi01> Seeker`: 2100
[20:12]  * jussi01 reminds seeker that he can subscribe to the wiki page...
[20:13] <Seeker`> sounds like effort :P
[20:14] <jussi01> Seeker`: small effort now = little effort later...
[20:14] <jussi01> :P
[20:14] <Seeker`> hmm
[20:14] <Seeker`> interestingb
[20:14] <Myrtti> I'm still hungry
[20:14] <Myrtti> meh
[20:14] <Pici> I have candy in my apartment.
[20:14] <Pici> Alas, I am not there.
[20:14] <Myrtti> I ate my superporridge again
[20:15] <Pici> Super
[20:50] <PriceChild> mibbit..
[20:50] <PriceChild> is charsets bad?
[20:50] <Myrtti> wasn't he just banned and unbanned in there
[20:50] <Myrtti> he has been banned before
[20:51] <Myrtti> @btsearch charsets
[20:51] <Myrtti> @bansearch charsets
[20:51] <jpds> PriceChild: HE just did ##linux too.
[20:51] <PriceChild> And why didn't floodbots ban? :/
[20:51] <PriceChild> they thought they did, and unbanned
[20:51]  * nalioth msg's charsets
[20:51] <PriceChild> jpds: that ban needs changing if you want it to stay in effect
[20:52] <Flannel> no, floodbots didn't ban at all, just warn
[20:56] <jpds> PriceChild: Yeah, auto_bleh did it automatically, fixed it.
[22:12] <jpds> Fool.
[22:12] <Myrtti> ompaul is in a harsh mood
[22:13] <ompaul> no
[22:13] <jpds> He was asked to stop.. twice.
[22:13] <ompaul> someone who thinks they can communicate with him can do pm in place of me if you like
[22:13] <ompaul> I don't really want to
[22:13] <ompaul> but I don't think you will profit from it
[22:13] <Myrtti> the ban was harsh...?
[22:14] <Myrtti> anyway
[23:47] <mneptok> yeth, it ith.
[23:50] <LjL> PriceChild: who didn't floodbots not ban?