[19:04] <frog-o> dose upstart have anything to do with module loading
[21:59] <wasabi__> Question: I have a job that needs to stop by running a command and waiting for the process to exit, but never sending TERM to the process.
[22:00] <wasabi__> I think expect stop is the closest, except I'm not using SIGSTOP
[22:01] <wasabi__> Oops
[22:01] <ion> Add a pre-stop script that runs the command and waits for the process to exit.
[22:02] <wasabi__> Ahh. I can wait. Duh.
[22:19] <wasabi__> Cool. So. Here's a harder one. I have a set of services which I need to attempt to shutdown, but if they fail to shutdown, I need the system back up. Can we do this yet? :0
[22:19] <wasabi__> (VirtualBox VMs)
[22:19] <wasabi__> (they could fail to respond to acpipoweroff
[22:43] <Keybuk> wasabi__: yes, in the pre-stop
[22:43] <Keybuk>   if failed_to_shutdown
[22:43] <Keybuk>   then
[22:43] <wasabi__> cool
[22:44] <Keybuk>     start
[22:44] <Keybuk>   fi
[22:44] <Keybuk> ;)
[22:47] <wasabi__> does env support "" around values?
[22:48] <Keybuk> yes
[22:53] <wasabi__> Hmm. Getting close.
[22:53] <wasabi__> Got the job to start... but there's probably some unknown of fork
[23:00] <wasabi__> And if 'start' is invoked, and the job actually does succeed to shutting down later, does it come back? I suppose respawn effects that?
[23:03] <wasabi__> vm-station-1 main process (28695) killed by TERM signal
[23:03] <wasabi__> grrrr
[23:03] <wasabi__> oh i see
[23:03] <wasabi__> pre-stop failed
[23:03] <wasabi__> if pre-stop fails, shoudl stop continue?
[23:05] <Keybuk> no
[23:05] <Keybuk> pre-stop fails doesn't affect anything
[23:16] <wasabi__> hmmm.
[23:16] <wasabi__> main process terminated with status 5.  weird. it's just exec sudo, followed by a command that does not fork.
[23:16] <wasabi__> running it as root works.
[23:17] <wasabi__> Keybuk, when you getting into Dallas?
[23:17] <wasabi__> oh i know. sudo isn't staing alive.
[23:22] <wasabi__> hmmm
[23:28] <wasabi__> Variables are expanded on exec stanza's, I assume
[23:31] <wasabi__> Hmm. So sudo is forking the task off, but it's getting the console, so you can't tell
[23:35] <wasabi__> Hmm. Nope.
[23:36] <wasabi__> sudo is execing
[23:37] <wasabi__> could i have broken upstart? I have a job that just blocks on 'start'
[23:47] <wasabi__> ISI\jhaltom@station-1:/etc/init$ sudo status vm-station-2
[23:47] <wasabi__> vm-station-2 stop/killed, process 9401
[23:47] <wasabi__> no 9401 exists
[23:54] <Keybuk> wasabi__: sunday evening
[23:55] <wasabi__> so tomorrow
[23:55] <ion> http://heh.fi/tmp/workaround-upstart-snafu
[23:55] <ion> ./workaround-upstart-snafu 9401
[23:55] <ion> :-P
[23:55] <wasabi__> so it's a known issue?
[23:57] <ion> Upstart doesn’t really handle forking children very well at the moment.  The 0.10 release will fix that.
[23:58] <Keybuk> today, I mostly hate compiz


[00:30] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/flock-2.0a1pre.png
[00:31] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/flock2.png
[00:36] <fta> jcastro, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/flock3.png :)
[00:45] <fta> if someone wants to try it, here is the very 1st deb: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/flock_2.0~a1~svn20080603r19205_i386.deb (no launcher yet, start flock-browser in a shell). I'll improve the packaging later.
[04:43] <gnomefreak> ok i fixed depends issues in my PPA with flash 10 and libflassupport for Hardy and if we want it for Gutsy (i will start this tomorrow) we have to use intrepids libflashsupport unless we push to Hardy first
[04:44] <gnomefreak> good night
[08:47] <valent> hello
[08:51] <valent> How are you mozilla team?
[09:36] <asac> valent: hey
[09:37] <asac> what can we do ;)?
[10:41] <valent> Hi asac
[10:41] <valent> I was out
[10:41] <asac> np ... i am in ;)
[10:41] <asac> did you apply for mozillateam membership?
[10:42] <valent> I would like to know how well you cooperate with mozilla upsteram?
[10:42] <valent> yes I did
[10:42] <asac> valent: depends on what you mean :)
[10:42] <valent> :)
[10:42] <asac> how would you measure if we "cooperate well"?
[10:42] <asac> which areas in particular
[10:43] <valent> Well... flash plugin for example
[10:43] <valent> you have made it, right?
[10:43] <asac> there are certainly things where we have healthy cooperations.
[10:43] <asac> other areas should get more attention
[10:43] <valent> plugin finder service for firefox
[10:43] <asac> others are not important ;)
[10:43] <asac> valent: i did the plugin finder wizard, right
[10:44] <valent> I'm wondering if that plugin service is something you talked about with mozilla for them to make it work upstream
[10:44] <asac> valent: the long term goal is to merge our efforts on that
[10:44] <valent> because currently flash is broken in firefox
[10:44] <asac> valent: i talked to them
[10:45] <asac> point is that our implementation is thought to be an example how it can be done right
[10:45] <asac> in the end all this should go to the Tools -> Addons dialog
[10:46] <asac> that will be done upsream in a way that allows distributors to hook in new install methods
[10:47] <valent> great news!
[10:48] <valent> I'm a fedora contributor (not devel) but I talked to fedora devels and they aren't too much interested in doing that because they feel that is for the upstream mozilla to fix
[10:49] <valent> this is what Jeff Spaleta told me:
[10:49] <valent> "If you want to push this approach
[10:49] <valent> as something Fedora should be doing then I need you to do two things
[10:49] <valent> as a starting point for a discussion.
[10:49] <valent> 1) I need you to point us specifically to the client side code that
[10:49] <valent> Ubuntu is using to add capabilities to Firefox.
[10:49] <valent> 2) I need you to point us specifically to the server side code that
[10:49] <valent> Ubuntu is using to create a service.
[10:49] <valent> There really isn't a lot to talk about until we can specifically look
[10:49] <valent> at the implementation they are using and whether its compatible with
[10:49] <valent> our policies.  I'm going to withhold judgement on whether we can do
[10:49] <valent> something similar until I understand how their implementation works by
[10:49] <valent> being able to play with the source code they've already put together."
[10:50] <valent> asac could you help me out here?
[10:53] <armin76> flash is broken on firefox?
[10:53] <valent> yes
[10:53] <valent> I'll post you the bugzilla link
[10:54] <valent> and on all platforms
[10:54] <valent> I mean installer is broken
[10:54] <valent> if you install it manually it works
[10:54] <valent> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=416396
[10:55] <valent> this is the last comment:
[10:55] <valent> In the meantime, Flash will have to be offered via the manual installation URL for Firefox 3 versions on all platforms since it is not possible to fix this for the initial Firefox 3 launch.
[10:57] <asac> valent: who is jeff ?
[10:57] <valent> fedora devel
[10:58] <asac> does he work with caillon?
[10:58] <valent> and a member of fedora board
[10:58] <valent> let me google a bit
[10:59] <valent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta
[11:01] <valent> nope, he isn't I guess.
[11:01] <valent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
[11:03] <asac> valent: dont know him
[11:04] <asac> valent: personally i think you would be better off in contributing to our ubufox extension here
[11:04] <asac> and helping us driving it into upstream
[11:04] <asac> valent: you could even contribute new install methods, like for fedora
[11:05] <asac> but before you can do that you probably first want to read a bit of the code
[11:05] <valent> I'm interested to see it in upstream and in fedora
[11:06] <valent> so can you  point me specifically to the client side code that Ubuntu is using to add capabilities to Firefox.
[11:06] <valent> do you have ans server side code?
[11:07] <valent> do you have any server side code?
[11:07] <asac> its all in the ubufox bzr branch
[11:07] <asac> valent: what i can offer is that if you write an importer, i can add the fedora package data to our database so ubufox.xpi would just work
[11:08] <asac> of course i would only add that if the fedora client side code is in there too
[11:09] <valent> let me look around and see what ubufox does, I'll be back after googling a bit
[11:09] <asac> code.launchpad.net/ubufox
[11:10] <valent> thank you
[11:15] <asac> valent: i know caillon pretty well
[11:16] <asac> he does firefox for redhat and fedora i think
[11:16] <asac> so if we have a solution it might be good to go through him to get this feature in.
[11:20] <valent> great! I'll contact Caillon
[11:23] <asac> valent: if you dont have a plan to code this, I'd say it doesnt make sense
[11:23] <asac> he probably doesnt have the cycles and I will get him into the loop once i suggest the backend plans upstream
[11:24] <valent> well I'm not a coder ;( I can just politely ask fedora devels to look at this and in future when they can implement it.
[11:25] <asac> valent: yes, if you send a mail, CC me. i just want to mitigate any confusion on this topic
[11:25] <valent> ok, no problem
[11:27] <valent> I must say that I'm impressed that ubuntu has a whole mozilla team
[11:29] <asac> me too :)
[12:06] <gnomefreak> ok how in the hell do you take a new .png and change orig .png with the new one. nothing i have tried has done it
[12:06] <armin76> hrm...
[12:06] <armin76> i didn't got any problem with flash
[12:07] <armin76> although in gentoo we install it system-wide
[12:07] <armin76> not using ff, that is
[12:08] <asac> gnomefreak: uuencode it
[12:08] <asac> put it into debian/
[12:08] <asac> and uudecode it during build time
[12:08] <gnomefreak> asac: no im doing this localy
[12:09] <asac> gnomefreak: dont understand your problem
[12:09] <asac> diff will complain about binary
[12:09] <gnomefreak> i think its the .png that is being used and that would explain why it doesnt take when you built it
[12:09] <asac> thus uuencode it ... so its text
[12:09] <asac> and then uudecode it before building in debian/rules
[12:09] <asac> that should od it
[12:09] <gnomefreak> asac: localy == i download .png from net and replace it in /usr/share/pixmaps
[12:10] <asac> gnomefreak: ok. maybe its just not used
[12:10] <asac> firefox and friend have several places where they pull in pics
[12:10] <asac> the pixmaps thing is used for gnome menu
[12:10] <asac> but you have to restart it
[12:10] <gnomefreak> /usr/share/pixmaps/sunbird.png
[12:11] <gnomefreak> im trying to replace that icon with the one with the bird
[12:11] <gnomefreak> but once it is replaced no icon is used
[12:12] <asac> maybe wrong size/file format then
[12:12] <gnomefreak> that is the default path to .png unless sunbird is not putting it in right place but it shouldnt really matter as long as package knows where to get icon from
[12:13] <gnomefreak> its 256x256
[12:13] <gnomefreak> Sunbird-256x256-white.png is the png i want to add inplace of calendar (for some reason your build says you did it but failed to do it
[12:14] <gnomefreak> s/(/|
[12:14] <armin76> bumb
[12:14] <gnomefreak> once i do it locally that i know icon works at that point but this icon is in the source dir
[12:15] <gnomefreak> s/taht/than
[12:15] <gnomefreak> that even
[12:25] <gnomefreak> ah using symlink worked
[12:26] <gnomefreak> so the icon is ablet o be used
[12:28] <fta2> asac, quilt changed in intrepid. there's no patches symlink anymore.
[12:28] <asac> bug?
[12:30] <gnomefreak> asac: are you looking to no longer use Desktop-Effects or you want them just with metacity instead?
[12:31] <gnomefreak> you can turn it off in system > preferneces > appearance > Desktop-Effects
[12:32] <gnomefreak> to change WM you would run something like compiz metacity --replace &  IIRC pre session or yes you will find it in gconf
[12:32] <gnomefreak> s/will/should
[12:35] <gnomefreak> the above was from Hardy but since the desktop effects team was merged into desktop team i havent really cared too much about it but since the shit Ubuntu has to load at login time compiz just slows me down/freezes me way too often
[12:36] <asac> i want metacity
[12:36] <asac> compiz breaks midbrowser
[12:36] <asac> s i cant QA it
[12:37] <gnomefreak> asac: just turn it off in appearance
[12:37] <gnomefreak> i normally restart X but i dont think you "have to"
[12:37] <asac> lets check
[12:38] <asac> thanks
[12:38] <asac> works
[12:38] <gnomefreak> np
[12:38] <gnomefreak> the problem i found is that turning it off doesnt unload mem used by it
[12:41] <fta2> asac, no, it's a feature: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16852/
[12:42] <fta2> asac, but i don't like it, i always forget to set QUILT_PATCHES so i end up with a new patch series
[12:44] <gnomefreak> does ubuntu have a text based address book?
[12:46] <Yannig> Hi asac :)
[12:46] <asac> fta2: ah ok... thats the helper mk that has this new feature
[12:46] <asac> for a moment i thought they prevent creating a link on my own :)
[12:47] <asac> hi Yannig
[12:47] <fta2> asac, yes
[12:47] <asac> thats unfortunate
[12:47] <asac> kick the developer who did that
[12:48] <fta2> debian bug 473381
[12:48] <armin76> it was asac!
[12:50] <asac> fta2: hmm ... changed by NMU
[12:50] <asac> ask hertzog about about whats going on
[12:50] <asac> and why
[12:52] <fta2> well, the reason is that it confuses packages shipping a patches directory
[12:52] <fta2> songbird is one of those
[12:54] <asac> yes
[12:54] <asac> maybe we should also ship a script wrapper calles deb-quilt
[12:54] <asac> so we dont need to create symlinks, but find the right directory automatically :)
[12:57] <Yannig> asac> As far as Occitan is concerned, I don't really need to test my translations for now. What I'd above all need is the translation released :)
[13:08] <asac> Yannig: this is not really true. you can easily break UI
[13:08] <asac> without thorough testing we cannot include it
[13:08] <Yannig> Ooooops :p
[13:09] <Yannig> So I'd love explainations about how to test :)
[13:09] <asac> thats the odds of mozilla translations. you might include a bad character and suddenly the complete UI is busted
[13:09] <asac> Yannig: if i'd explain now would you take notes and setup some content in the wiki?
[13:10] <asac> otherwise i'd like to just document it properly right from the beginning
[13:10] <asac> :)
[13:10] <Yannig> I can
[13:15]  * Yannig takes his pen :)
[13:20] <asac> Yannig: ok. currently we import .xpi files as translation base ... then we translate missing strings in launchpad
[13:20] <asac> Yannig: to translate firefox you need to translate firefox-3.0 and xulrunner-1.9
[13:21] <asac> just firefox will leave you with half of the application untranslated
[13:21] <Yannig> xpi files are not yet imported?
[13:21] <asac> Yannig: err, what did i say above?
[13:21] <Yannig> More than a half of Firefox is not translated into Occitan, no problem :p
[13:21] <asac> 14:20 < asac> Yannig: ok. currently we import .xpi files as translation base ... then we translate  missing strings in launchpad
[13:22] <Yannig> Ops, sorry
[13:22] <asac> Yannig: so if occitan is distributed upstream with a .xpi and is only half translated
[13:22] <asac> you can do the rest in launchpad
[13:22] <asac> we will work on procedures to get it back ... so your work wont be lost
[13:22] <Yannig> No, Occitan is not translated upstream, I hate their way to manage the translation teams
[13:22] <asac> Yannig: even better
[13:24] <asac> Yannig: ok ... so you happily translate xulrunner-1.9 and firefox-3.0 in launchpad
[13:24] <asac> when you are done you request an export
[13:25] <asac> which will be then for the time being in .po file format
[13:25] <asac> we have written a tool to produce .xpi files out of those
[13:25] <asac> you use that to produce test .xpi files
[13:26] <asac> Yannig: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/rosetta/po2xpi
[13:26] <asac> to get it use
[13:26] <asac> bzr branch lp:~mozillateam/rosetta/po2xpi
[13:27] <asac> to build you go into the the po2xpi directory and run ./configure then make
[13:27] <asac> thats it
[13:27] <asac> there are some tools in the src/ directory
[13:27] <asac> use po2xpi
[13:28] <asac> to produce a .xpi from a po file
[13:28] <asac> the command line should give you some brief documentation
[13:28] <asac> if you are there and dont know how to go on, let me know :)
[13:29] <asac> Yannig: the page for xulrunner translations is: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/xulrunner-1.9/
[13:29] <asac> for firefox is https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/firefox-3.0/
[13:29] <asac> you can select the language you want to export and hit "Download" there
[13:30] <Yannig> Fair enough
[13:31] <asac> Yannig: maybe try with spanish or something that is properly translated ... so you can see the result
[13:31] <Yannig> OK
[13:32] <asac> great. try what i said above. if there are things that need clarified let me know
[13:35] <Yannig> I'll tell you :)
[13:35] <Yannig> Well, now, I have to go shopping :p
[13:35] <Yannig> Thanks, see you asac
[14:25] <Volans> Hi all :)
[14:28] <asac> i Volans
[14:31] <Volans> Hi asac :) today I'm very proud to announce that the "famous" Mozilla T-Shirt Gift for all FF3 compatible extension developers has arrived!!!
[14:32] <asac> haha
[14:32] <asac> great
[14:32] <asac> Volans: nice!
[14:33] <Volans> if you want to see images, I have made a very quick photo: http://www.webalice.it/volans/other/
[14:35] <asac> bad image
[14:36] <Volans> on the front?
[14:38] <Volans> (is the FF3 robot http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/whatsnew/ )
[14:44] <valent> asac if you don't mind would you join the fedora mailing list discussion at:
[14:45] <valent> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-June/msg00218.html
[14:47] <asac> valent: can you bounce messages? e.g. what mail client are you using?
[14:47] <valent> gmail webmail :)
[14:47] <valent> I have thunderbird also setup
[14:47] <asac> ok, i cannot answer if you cannot bounce
[14:48] <asac> you need mail redirect extension to do that in thunderbird
[14:48] <asac> i think gmail doesnt offer that feature
[14:48] <asac> you should have CCed me as i asked you to :)
[14:48] <valent> this is an old thread so I didn't CC: you
[14:49] <valent> you would need to be subscribed on mailing list
[14:49] <valent> it is an open mailing list
[14:49] <valent> you can subscribe
[14:49] <valent> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
[14:50] <asac> certainly i wont do that ;)
[14:50] <asac> i want to be CCed
[14:50] <asac> but the message is already send, so i cannot answer, until someone bounces it ;)
[14:50] <valent> ok
[14:51] <asac> i wont subscribe to any mailing list, because i already have too much mail to follow up on :)
[14:52] <valent> I'm installing mail redirect plugin for TB
[14:52] <Volans> asac maybe if valent add your email in the smpt settings on gmail and give you his smtp access you can send an email from valent's account (but he have to give you his gmail access ;))
[14:53] <asac> i dont mind that much
[14:53] <asac> fedora has its own attitude i cannot get involved with. would love to send a single follow up though to clarify things
[14:54] <Volans> then you can simply send your reply to valent and he can forward this to the ML with you in CC ;)
[14:55] <valent> jup, I can do that
[14:56] <valent> but it is a shame not to join ubuntu and fedora on this subject because it would be best to work together and also with upstream with such issues. I'm sorry I can't code :(
[14:57] <asac> just bounce the mails to me
[14:57] <asac> :)
[14:58] <asac> i can give a quick reply and the rest depends then on fedoras attitude/resources/objectives
[14:58] <valent> I redirected you the last email
[14:58] <asac> maybe the one before that two ...thanks
[14:59] <asac> well at best the complete thread ;)
[14:59] <Volans> but the problem is the Flash support?
[14:59] <asac> no
[14:59] <asac> the topic is the plugin finder service ;) ... maybe not properly understood in that thread as its focus is quite narrowed down to flash
[15:00] <Volans> ah ok, most general issue
[15:02] <valent> I redirected a bunch of them  (5-6) just delete ones you don't need
[15:03] <valent> the problem that fedora also has it that fedora can't legally include swfdec because it depends on gstreamer-ffmpeg package ;(
[15:03] <valent> it can include swfdec but not it's dependency
[15:04] <valent> as I understand it
[15:04] <valent> because of patent issues
[15:04] <valent> ubuntu has the advnatage not being based in US
[15:04] <valent> so you can do that, right?
[15:09] <asac> valent: no ... we dont depend on gstreamer-ffmpeg
[15:09] <asac> we are smarter ;)
[15:09] <asac> we have a wizard that guides users to download codecs
[15:09] <asac> for instance in totem -> if oyu hit a movie for which you dont have a package, we present users with options
[15:10] <asac> gnash -> the same
[15:10] <valent> but which codecs do you use?
[15:10] <asac> and we ship all those codecs in an unofficial archive called multiverse
[15:10] <valent> those codecs also have patent issues, no?
[15:10] <valent> and you can point to those, fedora can't - that is the issue. law in US prevents it
[15:10] <asac> our policy allows us to use patented codecs, that are not enforced. which is true for most decoding parts
[15:10] <asac> we dont ship encoders in any ubuntu archive
[15:11] <valent> I know that
[15:11] <valent> fedora can't even point to codecs
[15:11] <asac> well ... we have mirrors in US
[15:11] <asac> its an issue of enforcement and how you can react on it
[15:11] <asac> if they are not on CD you can usually just remove them from online server once a claim is made
[15:11] <valent> red hat legal says it is patent issue, I can dig up the legal term it you need it
[15:11] <asac> but its a critical issue
[15:11] <asac> valent: still swfdec and gnash work without any codec
[15:11] <asac> just not youtube
[15:12] <valent> I know
[15:12] <asac> or other flv content
[15:12] <valent> games work
[15:12] <valent> just not video
[15:12] <asac> valent: we had issues with ffmpeg in debian and ubuntu for a long time
[15:12] <asac> but finally that was sorted by ripping out the critical issues
[15:12] <asac> and now even debian has it iirc
[15:16] <valent> the issue is called "contributory infringement"
[15:23] <asac> yeah
[15:23] <asac> if you look for non-enforced patents you can stop distributing anything
[15:23] <asac> thats the other POV on that
[15:24] <valent> but media codecs have encorcing patents, no?
[15:24] <valent> mp3 for sure has enforcing patents
[15:25] <asac> encoding
[15:25] <asac> valent: there is no such thing as "enforcing" patents. its about whether they are enforced by the patent owner
[15:26] <Volans> asac: as you know how is difficult to port a FF extension to epiphany and/or konqueror?
[15:26] <valent> I ment that that, just said it wrong :)
[15:27] <valent> Rahul said "If the software is infringing patents, it cannot be included regardless  of it's copyright license. "
[15:27] <asac> mp3 encoder is actively enforced, decoder not iirc
[15:27] <asac> but i am not a lawyer, and dont want to
[15:27] <valent> :)
[15:27] <valent> nice for you
[15:27] <asac> thast just a summary of the pic i have in mind on this issue
[15:53] <asac> valent: does that mailing list require subscription to post without moderation?
[15:54] <valent> I belive it does
[15:54] <asac> hmm ... ok. will do it later today or tomorrow
[15:54] <valent> I guess it is a spam filter
[15:54] <asac> if you dont see a mail in a day or so prod me
[15:54] <valent> no prob
[15:55] <valent> I'm reading up on red hat legal stuff and patents
[15:55] <valent> there have been some talks a year ago about it is maybe legal to do linking
[15:55] <valent> but as all things legal they move slooooow
[15:56] <valent> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.advisory-board/2717
[15:56] <asac> yeah, but interesting that its even slower than debian
[16:02] <valent> even mp3 decoders are illegal: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/07/patent_crackdown_at_cebit/
[16:03] <valent> these are hardware players but somebody could build mp3 player using ubuntu and that would be also considered illegal in this case, right?
[16:03] <valent> you see how strange these things are
[16:03] <asac> they are strange. maybe there is a position soewhere on ubuntu wiki on how we handle this
[16:13] <valent> if you find it please share the link
[18:41] <fta> jcastro, is there a way i can get https://edge.launchpad.net/flock reassigned to me (or to mozillateam) ?
[18:46] <asac> fta: you have to ask the current owner
[18:46] <asac> fta: thats what i had to do for everything that needed to be taken over
[18:46] <asac> at best invite upstream to own the project
[18:46] <fta> hm, he has no recent activity
[18:46] <asac> having an ubuntu dev owning it is just a workaround for upstream not caring
[18:47] <asac> fta: still ... mail him, ask him to assign it to mozillateam or something
[18:47] <asac> and invite upstream to own the project if you want to be nice ;)
[18:47] <fta> i'm not admin of mozillateam either so i will not be able to change everything
[18:48] <asac> ask gnomefreak when he comes back about escalated privileges
[18:50] <asac> jcastro: you promissed to tell me when the answers for brainstorm get public
[18:50] <asac> :)
[18:50] <asac> jcastro: now i have to hurry.
[18:51] <asac> jcastro: still interested in answers for the network admin interface thing?
[18:51] <asac> or can you make that up on your own? its basically: so far no real replacement for network manager is available, and network manager 0.7 is doing well in covering almost all use cases.
[18:51] <asac> so we stick with NM ;)
[18:53] <asac> jcastro: if you want me to rubberstamp some text let me know ... if you want me to draft it let me know too
[18:58] <jcastro> asac: yes I am interested
[18:58] <jcastro> I have a queue of answers so don't feel too rushed
[18:59] <jcastro> fta: I'll look at moving it over to the team
[18:59] <jcastro> fta: have you mailed the guy yet?
[19:00] <asac> jcastro: would be cool if you can mail the guy + FLOCK upstream. .. maybe they want to be owner of their launchpad team
[19:00] <asac> and ssign driver status to mozillateam for instance
[19:01] <asac> jcastro: ok ... ill answer that question then. how many in queue? how many published a week?
[19:02] <jcastro> I am publishing like 1 a week
[19:02] <jcastro> asac: if you could get it to me like, by the end of next week that would be great
[19:03] <jcastro> asac: I think just a status update for nm.7 for intrepid will be sufficient
[19:05] <asac> jcastro: ok great. that sounds possible ;)
[19:06] <jcastro> asac: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=firefox&ordering=mostvotes
[19:06] <jcastro> if you want to answer more
[19:09] <jcastro> asac: they don't have to be huge answers or anything
[19:11] <fta> jcastro, i didn't yet. feel free to e-mail that guy. thanks
[19:11] <jcastro> fta: ok
[19:13] <asac> jcastro: cool ill go over that list and answer some i guess
[19:15] <jcastro> asac: the key is giving feedback to users, even if it's a "we'll never implement this, sorry." :)
[19:17] <asac> jcastro: i understand that and its a good think to actually get answers out for all those ideas that sound great, but are not doable or make no sense
[19:17] <jcastro> yeah
[19:17] <asac> like "faster firefox" ... everybdy is blinded by the name, but rarely one looks what this means(not means)
[19:17] <jcastro> yeah
[19:18] <jcastro> for most of them you can mark as "In development"
[19:18] <asac> so yes, great thing
[19:18] <asac> sure ... timeline might be "long-term" though ;)
[19:25] <jcastro> yeah, but your goal is just to answer the question
[19:26] <jcastro> if they don't like the answer they'll have to get over it, heh
[19:26] <asac> hehe
[19:26] <asac> right
[19:26] <asac> i still try to be nice ;)
[19:26] <jcastro> well yeah. :)
[19:26] <asac> and inject realistic hope in those souls ;)
[19:26] <jcastro> It would be nice to say "yes, we're making firefox 1000% faster."
[19:27] <asac> right ;)
[19:27] <jcastro> but part of the 2-way communication is giving them realistic answers
[19:27] <jcastro> one of them yesterday was "port openoffice to GTK+"
[19:27] <jcastro> heh
[19:27] <asac> why not :)
[19:27] <jimmy_> asac: ping
[19:28] <asac> jimmy_: yes
[19:28] <asac> i am fighting shitty things
[19:29] <asac> like not including the .git directory in the tarball i am trying to upload for 3 hours now
[19:29] <asac> jimmy_: the release should be in moblin git now
[19:29] <asac> we should open an intrepid branch btw
[19:29] <jimmy_> asac: in the rc1 build, when you start the browser, do you see the homepage loaded or just  a blank page?
[19:29] <asac> jimmy_: everything is fine for me
[19:30] <asac> jimmy_: homepage even synchs from gconf
[19:30] <jimmy_> asac: somehow ours do not pick up the home_page in gconf, so our opens a blank page
[19:30] <asac> jimmy_: err, who got the idea to put the homepage in /etc
[19:30] <asac> that has to go immediately
[19:31] <jimmy_> asac: check with Carl :)
[19:31] <asac> jimmy_: i guess the patch in git is not really proper anymore
[19:31] <asac> jimmy_: you should get involve in xulrunner packaging and how to update that to latest so you can test the real environment
[19:31] <asac> jimmy_: the xulrunner shold be in ubuntu-mobile PPA by now
[19:31] <asac> give it a shot
[19:32] <valent> bye
[19:33] <jimmy_> asac: pulling now
[19:35] <asac> jimmy_: the latest packaging is on hardy branch obvioulsy ;)
[19:35]  * asac pushes midbrowser to mobile-ppa
[19:36]  * asac pushes midbrowser to hardy-proposed
[19:36] <asac> jimmy_: ill open an intrepid branch now
[19:36] <asac> i have to upload there as compiz folks want to help debugging X issues i am seeing with compiz + midbrowser
[19:45] <asac> jimmy_: ok intrepid created
[19:45] <asac> upload will follow once my upload pipe is not utiiized anymore
[19:46] <jimmy_> asac: so what is the intrepid branch used for? just for your own testing with compiz?
[19:46] <asac> jimmy_: to release branch to ubuntu intrepid
[19:46] <asac> we have to get everything tat goes to hardy to intrepid first
[19:46] <asac> thats policy
[19:47] <asac> in general new upstream development wont be allowed in hardy anymore (we might have an exception) ... so latest development release is usually were the new features get uploaded
[19:48] <jimmy_> when you mean hardy, you mean the hardy distro, not the hardy branch, right?
[19:49] <asac> jimmy_: the "hardy" branch tracks releases to the "hardy" distro
[19:49] <asac> the "intrepid" branch tracks releaess to "intrepid" distro :)
[19:49] <asac> releases + packaging
[19:53] <cwong1> asac: Jimmy just told me the new xulrunner seems to work fine with the code on master branch.  What is your plan for releasing this new midbrowser package?
[19:54] <asac> cwong1: its uploaded to mobile ppa
[19:54] <asac> upload to ubuntu/hardy-proposed is running
[19:54] <asac> upload to ubuntu/intrepid will follow afte3rwards from the new intrepid branch i just created
[19:54] <asac> cwong1: we should talk about the xulrunner thing
[19:54] <cwong1> asac: so you uploaded both midbrowser and xulrunner to the new proposed ppa, right?
[19:55] <asac> cwong1: the mobile xulrunner is in mobile ppa .. yes.
[19:55] <asac> i uploaded everything ;)
[19:55] <asac> whats missing: intrepid + language packs
[19:55] <asac> but thats next
[19:55] <asac> cwong1: you should stop using in-source xulrunner completely imo
[19:55] <asac> better contribute to xulrunnre package and use that to test
[19:55] <cwong1> ok
[19:56] <asac> i have setup axulrunner 1.9 branch for ubuntu-mobile
[19:56] <asac> that currently carries the differences of mobile vs. hardy
[19:56] <cwong1> asac: when you say you uploaded everything, that includes the midbrowser built from the master branch, right?
[19:56] <asac> i have put it into ~ubuntu-mobile so you can commit there too
[19:56] <asac> cwong1: i merged master to hardy branch
[19:56] <asac> fixed packaging
[19:56] <asac> uploaded that to hardy ppa in mobile and hardy-propsed
[19:57] <cwong1> ok\
[19:57] <asac> further i updated the xulruner in mobile ppa
[19:57] <asac> which is basically hardy xulrunner + gconf patch
[19:57] <asac> so download directories feature is probably missing
[19:57] <asac> but feel free to contribut that to the mobile xulrunner branch
[19:58] <asac> cwong1: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy
[19:59] <asac> but lets talkl about that later. we need to align some procedures
[19:59] <cwong1> ok
[19:59] <cwong1> so what do we need to do if need to fix bugs in midbrowser?  How do I release it?
[20:00] <cwong1> asac: ^^^
[20:01] <asac> cwong1: on xulrunner side?
[20:01] <cwong1> asac: no, on midbrowser
[20:01] <asac> cwong1: look at how i committed the last commits on hardy branc
[20:01] <asac> cwong1: i dont understand that question
[20:01] <asac> what part are you unsure about?
[20:02] <cwong1> once I commit the fixes to hardy branch, how do I upload it to the ubuntu-mobile ppa or where?
[20:03] <asac> cwong1: on hardy branch you should commit targetted for hardy-proposed
[20:03] <asac> e.g. targetted for real archive
[20:04] <asac> look at the last commit ... its for the real upload. i uploaded a version with ~ume to PPA ... but we dont need to included that
[20:04] <asac> if its just the version change
[20:04] <asac> once such a "RELEASE XXXX to ubnutu/hardy-proposed" is on top of the tree
[20:04] <asac> you can ask me to release that
[20:05] <asac> but at best if it goes through me, dont do the last commit, but keep the changelog targetted for UNRELEASED
[20:05] <cwong1> asac: ok so once I make the fixes and committed to hardy, you will do the release, right?
[20:05] <asac> if everything is fine i will commit the last changelog bump or if something needs to be done would do that before
[20:05] <asac> cwong1: yes, you can upload that version with ~ume appended
[20:05] <asac> on your own to PPA
[20:05] <asac> but that is ment for testing and not a real uploade
[20:06] <cwong1> asac: ok, I will take a look on what you did and then ask you question later
[20:06] <asac> cwong1: yes. just look at the last few commits on hardy branch
[20:06] <asac> you prbably will see what i mean
[20:07] <asac> its simple in the end
[20:07] <asac> cwong1: just remember ... main packaging changes should go to intrepid branch now
[20:07] <asac> we can push new upstream releases to hardy
[20:07] <asac> but packaging changes like changing where any file is put and so on should not be done in hardy anymore
[20:07] <asac> cwong1: only thing we might wanna change is the homepage
[20:08] <asac> why did you put that in /etc ?
[20:09] <cwong1> It was just a convience place to put it.  But we can put it anywhere that you think is appropriate
[20:10] <cwong1> asac: btw, jimmy just did an upgrade and update on his system. It pulled down the latest xulrunner but when he tries to install midbrowser, it has some unmet dependency
[20:11] <jimmy_> asac: the midbrowser in hardy ppa is still beta 5, isn't it?
[20:11] <asac> cwong1: it will take a few minnutes till its built ;)
[20:11] <asac> the upload finished a few minutes ago
[20:11] <cwong1> asac: ok
[20:11] <asac> jimmy_: 1^^
[20:11] <cwong1> that makes sense..
[20:11] <cwong1> thanks
[20:11] <jimmy_> asac: ok
[20:11] <asac> jimmy_: just build the latest hardy commit
[20:11] <asac> with the latest xul from PPA
[20:12] <vadi2> Where can I get help on flash on 64bit dying?
[20:12] <jimmy_> asac: i tested that, and it seems to work fine, i was able to pick up gconf stuff like bookmarks and all that
[20:12] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
[20:12] <asac> lpia is already finished
[20:13] <asac> .deb's should be available any minute ;)
[20:13] <asac> btw, i disabled the EULA thing
[20:13] <asac> we dont show it anywhere in ubuntu because we distribute mozilla software under GPL
[20:13] <asac> mozilla displays it because their binaries are not GPL
[20:14] <jimmy_> asac: i do think the the in source xulrunner we have do not have the gconf patched correctly, something is missing, but i am not worried about it now, since it works fine with the external xulrunner
[20:14] <asac> jimmy_: we should drop the complete xulruner code from git
[20:14] <asac> jimmy_: if you want changes to xulrunner, just use the packaging branch above imo
[20:15] <asac> i think i should really get to oregon at some point in the near future ;)
[20:15] <jimmy_> asac: the only thing for now that we need to chage in the xulrunner is the XDG stuff, i've uploaded the patch already to the bug
[20:15] <asac> jimmy_: yes, you can add that as a patch into the xulrunner packaging branch i setup for the UME xulrunner
[20:16] <asac> if you are ubuntu-mobile member you can even commit directly to it
[20:16] <jimmy_> asac: where is that branch?
[20:16] <asac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy
[20:16] <asac> get that
[20:16] <asac> install bzr-builddeb package
[20:16] <asac> do a bzr bd --merge to build
[20:17] <asac> you can abort ... switch to the build tree and use quilt to create patches while you develop it
[20:17] <asac> jimmy_: let me open changelog before you start .... then you cannot do anyhting wrong ;)
[20:18] <asac> jimmy_: ok pushed the "open tree for development" commit ... feel free to add your bdg patch there
[20:18] <asac> when that works i can upload from there to PPA
[20:19] <asac> or you can do, but i guess you want a peer review ;)
[20:19] <jimmy_> asac: ok, i'll do it after lunch
[20:19] <jimmy_> asac: thanks
[20:20] <james_w> asac: have you seen "bzr bd-do"?
[20:21] <asac> james_w: no, just bzr bd-do-de-do ;)
[20:21] <asac> no seriously, whats that about?
[20:22] <asac> is that in the normal bzr bd plugin now?
[20:22] <asac> james_w: ah ... good
[20:22] <james_w> it does the merge of debian in to upstream, runs a command (default $SHELL), and then if that exits without an error copies ./debian/ back.
[20:22] <asac> james_w: will it leave me in a shell? if i dont specify a command?
[20:23] <james_w> yep, should do.
[20:23] <asac> james_w: point is for mozillla development the dpatch-edit-patch approach is not usable
[20:23] <asac> i need to do development in the tmp tree ... test bulding ... do more dewvelopment, add another pach and so on
[20:23] <asac> and only when finish copy over all patches
[20:23] <asac> james_w: ok, it only copies debian/ back?
[20:24] <james_w> yup
[20:24] <asac> maybe it should run ./debian/rules clean first
[20:24] <asac> to not copy too much cruft
[20:24] <james_w> it doesn't auto add any new files, so if you are creating patches then "bzr add" after.
[20:24] <james_w> that's a reasonable idea
[20:25] <asac> james_w: ok. in future we might have development outside of debian/ tree ... together with clean it might also make sense to copy everything back i guess
[20:25] <asac> hmm ... not sure.
[20:26] <asac> ill test that feature and see how well it works
[20:26] <james_w> thanks
[20:26] <asac> james_w: will let you know when i have a more qualified opinion :)
[20:26] <james_w> heh :-)
[20:26] <james_w> I'm off down t'pub, see you later.
[20:27] <asac> james_w: $ bzr bd-do
[20:27] <asac> bzr: ERROR: This command only works for merge mode packages. See /usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/user_manual/merge.html for more information.
[20:27] <asac> ok ... ill wait
[20:27] <james_w> asac: create .bzr-builddeb/default.conf with
[20:27] <asac> not sure how i can persistently put a branch into merge mode
[20:27] <james_w> [BUILDDEB]
[20:27] <james_w> merge = True
[20:27] <asac> ok
[20:27] <asac> sounds complicated though ;)
[20:28] <asac> i tried bzr bd-do --merge
[20:28] <asac> didnt work
[20:28] <asac> if bd-do is just usable for --merge maybe it should assume --merge implicitly
[20:28] <asac> anyway ... have fun in the pub :)
[20:36] <jcastro> fta: asac: ok, he's agreed to hand over the flock page, I've made the change in lp.
[20:36] <fta> thx
[20:37] <asac> jcastro: cool. did you ask upstream if they want to be part of our flock project?
[20:38] <asac> fta: if you see gnomefreak tell him to dump bluekuja as admin and make you one instead
[20:38] <fta> ok
[20:39] <asac> i hope i can tell him myself, but well ... who knows
[20:39] <asac> i think he is more out than in these days
[20:39] <asac> most lkely health issues again
[20:44] <jcastro> asac: not yet, it's on my todo for tonight
[20:46] <asac> jcastro: sure. just want more mozilla skills in here :)
[20:46] <fta> btw, i've packaged flock 2.0 alpha, not 1.2
[20:46] <asac> so rather mid-term :)
[20:47] <asac> fta: even 1.2 is beta
[20:47] <fta> 1.2 is based on ff2, while 2.0 is based on ff3
[20:47] <asac> ok makes sense
[20:47] <asac> fta: libxulisation? in place?
[20:48] <fta> it's almost ok, i've patched it a bit and it built with xul sdk but i've had issues at runtime
[20:48] <fta> problem is they patched xul directly
[20:49] <fta> well, the whole ff tree
[20:49] <asac> jcastro: does brainstorm has a feature to mark an idea as "FIXED"
[20:49] <asac> would be cool
[20:49] <asac> for instance "up
[20:49] <asac> for instance "359
[20:49] <asac> down
[20:49] <asac> Mozilla-firefox-adblock should be replaced by Adblock Plus in Ubuntu's repos.  "
[20:50] <asac> fta: is that one huge monolithic patch or do they maintain them in a transparent fashion?
[20:50] <fta> (i've pushed flock to my ppa for hardy and intrepid)
[20:51] <fta> it's a single tree in svn, no patch
[20:51] <jcastro> asac: we have "Already implemented" and "Implemented"
[20:51] <jcastro> asac: I can mark it as already implemented
[20:52] <asac> jcastro: implemented is already the psat ... what is already implemented?
[20:52] <jcastro> if someone submits and idea that's already done. Sometimes people submit things that are already features and they might not know about it
[20:53] <fta> already implemented = before the idea, implemented = result of the idea
[20:53] <fta> at least that's my understanding
[20:53] <asac> jcastro: ok. maybe this one qualifies for "implemented" ... altough the idea was not taken directly
[20:54] <asac> unless it has been filed like 2 month ago
[20:54] <jcastro> asac: for intrepid or hardy?
[20:54] <asac> [reed]: how do you guys count downloads from mirrors?
[20:54] <asac> jcastro: adblock-plus is in hardy
[20:55] <[reed]> bouncer
[20:55] <[reed]> aka download.mozilla.org
[20:55] <asac> [reed]: you mean people get to website before downloading?
[20:55] <asac> ok
[20:55] <asac> i doubt that we can bounce every package download
[20:55] <asac> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/9269/
[20:55] <[reed]> ah
[20:56] <[reed]> well, bouncer isn't our only way
[20:56] <[reed]> but that's our main way
[21:02] <fta> [reed], hi!
[21:02] <fta> asac, so, is mozclient still scary ?
[21:02] <[reed]> hiya, fta
[21:04] <asac> fta: what scares me most is that i still havent looked ;)
[21:04] <asac> let me do that now
[21:05] <asac> pulling
[21:05] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/flock4.png
[21:05] <fta> i've improved the packaging a lot
[21:06] <fta> but there's still a part of the minefield branding in it.. hm
[21:06] <asac> fta: do we really need to make pl file a template because of DATADIR
[21:07] <asac> cant we fork that out into a small .pl file that just has variable templates?
[21:07] <asac> or even make it a parameter of the pl thing
[21:08] <fta> if there's another file, you still need to hardcode the location
[21:08] <fta> the idea is to be able to work/test in the dev tree
[21:08] <asac> fta: cant you locate the current .pl file?
[21:09] <fta> from $0
[21:09] <asac> and assume the other is at the same place ... unless overwritten with --with-data-dir=xxxx
[21:09] <asac> fta: right. does that work even in modules ?
[21:09] <asac> just wondering
[21:09] <asac> ok now looking for real ;)
[21:10] <asac> fta: what does "bless" do?
[21:10] <fta> it "creates" the object
[21:10] <asac> ok generic consructor
[21:11] <asac> do we need to implement new? what other options do we have to create objects?
[21:11] <fta> new is just a random name
[21:11] <asac> maybe stupid question
[21:11] <asac> yeah ... but causes confusion for outsiders ;)
[21:12] <fta> ? it's the usual constructor name in OO
[21:12] <fta>  $client = MozClient::CVS->new($conf, $opt);
[21:12] <fta>  $client = MozClient::Mercurial->new($conf, $opt);
[21:12] <asac> yeah ... but its not a keyword ... so give it a real name to not make people think that its a language constructor :)
[21:13] <asac> its ok though
[21:13] <fta> it's perl, not C++ :)
[21:13] <asac> all fine.
[21:15] <fta> better ?
[21:15] <asac> much better ... not yet finished
[21:15] <asac> why do you name system as exec?
[21:15] <asac> exec takes over the process. maybe use system instead
[21:15] <asac> or runCommand :)
[21:15] <fta> no reason, i meant execute()
[21:16] <asac> fta: right, but exec is used in unix ;)
[21:16] <fta> i know
[21:16] <asac> exec2 does nothing?
[21:17] <asac> hmm `$cmd` evaluates $cmd?
[21:17] <fta> yes, but it's different from system
[21:17] <asac> is that perlish?
[21:17] <asac> maybe name first exec == run_system ... and exec2 == run_perlish
[21:17] <asac> :)
[21:18] <fta> `cmd` is like in shell, the command could be complex with operators, redirections, multiple commands, etc
[21:19] <asac> ok then run_system_shell :)
[21:19] <fta> while system is much more limited but you can easily get return code, stdout & stderr
[21:21] <asac> fta: ... ok, so how would i add a new backend to mozclient?
[21:21] <asac> e.g. vcs
[21:21] <asac> backend
[21:22] <fta> just add a package like for Mercurial/CVS and in main, call the right constructor
[21:23] <fta> you just need to implement the methods specific to your VCS
[21:24] <fta> if you don't, it will call the methods from the ancestor, most will just die telling you to implement it for your VCS
[21:25] <asac> fta: ok, do we need all in one file?
[21:25] <asac> cant we have them in multiple files?
[21:26] <fta> we can split
[21:26] <asac> like MozclientVcs -> abstract class (does that exist in perl?)
[21:26] <asac> MozclientVcsCVS -> CVS
[21:26] <asac> MozclientVcsSvn ... and so on
[21:27] <fta> that will be Mozclient.pm, Mozclient/CVS.pm, etc
[21:27] <asac> otherwise, well done imo
[21:27] <asac> we should find a better name for dynamic tag though
[21:28] <fta> ideas ?
[21:28] <asac> fta: why Mozclient.pm? I would think Mozclient/VCS.pm <- the abstract VCS Class
[21:28] <fta> possible too
[21:28] <asac> anyway ... no idea for dynamic tag. i forgot again what that exactly did ;)
[21:29] <asac> so what does it do?
[21:29] <asac> maybe in that way we can find a better name ;)
[21:30] <fta> dynamically get a tag from somewhere. I use that for nspr and nss so I get mozilla/client.mk from head, extract NSS/NSPR_CO_TAG from it, and use that to fetch nss/nspr
[21:30] <asac> that was about finding fixed tags from a rolling head?
[21:30] <fta> no more nss/nspr from HEAD
[21:31] <asac> how is the "fixed tag" named atm?
[21:31] <asac> or branch?
[21:31] <fta> the nightly nspr/nss will just jump along with xul requirement
[21:31] <asac> CO_TAG?
[21:31] <asac> fta: right. i understand dyntag for now ;)
[21:32] <asac> how can i specify a  branch/tag? still DEBIAN_DATE/DEBIAN_TAG?
[21:32] <fta> yes, the API is the same as I didn't want to change all packages
[21:32] <asac> sure
[21:32] <fta> or call the perl version directly
[21:33] <asac> fta: how is DEBIAN_DATE DEBIAN_TAG named in .pl code?
[21:33] <fta> want_date, want_tag
[21:34] <fta> hm, have_date
[21:34] <fta> weird names
[21:34] <asac> hehe
[21:35] <asac> we should add DYNDATE too ;)
[21:35] <fta> how will it work ?
[21:35] <asac> fta: the same as DYNTAG ... we get a date somehow from a rolling hEAD instead of a tag
[21:36] <asac> most likely no use for mozilla tree
[21:36] <asac> but maybe there will be something at somepoint in the near or long future .... :-P
[21:36] <asac> fta: is there any MOZCLIENT_ variable in .conf that cannot be a shell command=
[21:37] <asac> ?
[21:37] <asac> or are all those evaluated?
[21:37] <fta> no
[21:37] <asac> fta: no what? all or not all or none can be statement?
[21:38] <fta> just the GET_*
[21:38] <fta> and DYNTAG
[21:38] <fta> and POSTCOCMD
[21:38] <fta> that's it
[21:39] <fta> just those 4: MOZCLIENT_GETVERSION MOZCLIENT_GETDATE MOZCLIENT_POSTCOCMD MOZCLIENT_DYNTAG
[21:40] <asac> fta:  why does nspr DYNTAG need mozilla/config/milestone.txt ?
[21:42] <fta> indirect. milestone.txt is used in the version name, but it cannot be fetched using MOZCLIENT_MODULES or MOZCLIENT_FILE because it is not in the tree so CVS will just say it's a removed file
[21:45] <fta> s/tree/same tree/
[22:20] <jimmy_> asac: ping
[22:25] <asac> jimmy_: yes
[22:26] <jimmy_> asac: how do I actually download the xulrunner using bzr? i tried bzr branch lp:~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy and doesn't work, i never used bzr before
[22:27] <asac> jimmy_: that works for me
[22:28] <asac> which bzr version?
[22:28] <asac> jimmy_: anyway, thats the mozillateam branch
[22:28] <asac> its the one without mobile patches
[22:28] <asac> the other is lp:~ubuntu-mobile/...
[22:28] <asac> jimmy_: lp: is shortform for:
[22:28] <asac> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy
[22:30] <jimmy_> ok, got it
[22:31] <asac> jimmy_: maybe push to your private space first to excersize
[22:32] <asac> you can say: bzr push bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~$jimmy.launchpad.id/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy
[22:32] <asac> without risking to loiter a release branch ;)
[22:32] <jimmy_> asac: can I just build it and link with it to test it? or I have to push it up and download it?
[22:34] <asac> jimmy_: sorry ... dont get that question
[22:34] <asac> (might be a little tired, so excuse any denseness)
[22:35] <jimmy_> wait, i mean in order to test my patch, i need to upload it to my private space first?
[22:36] <jimmy_> shouldn't i be able to build the xulrunner, and then install it, and build the browser with it?
[22:42] <jimmy_> wait, the branch just contains the debian packaging?  so how do i patch this? put the .patch file in debian/patches?
[22:43] <asac> jimmy_: no
[22:43] <asac> you can just branch the branch
[22:43] <asac> then you can use bzr builddeb to buld that branch
[22:43] <asac> locally
[22:43] <asac> you can develop it locally ... do everything
[22:44] <asac> if you want to test how a push looks like push to private space ;) ... thats all i wanted to say
[22:45] <jimmy_> asac: i see
[22:46] <jimmy_> so bzr builddeb would get the source?
[22:48] <asac> jimmy_: bzr builddeb is a tool to build from bzr branches
[22:48] <asac> jimmy_: for instance our bzr branch just has the debian directory
[22:48] <asac> so bzr builddeb merges that into a orig.tar.gz
[22:48] <asac> and builds
[22:48] <asac> i think it will auto download the orig.tar.gz
[22:49] <asac> otherwise you just need to put it in the ../tarballs directory
[22:50] <fta> (auto download only if there's a watch file)
[22:50] <jimmy_> asac: so how do i merge in my patch? that's the part i am confused
[22:51] <jimmy_> i have to apt-get source first?
[22:51] <asac> jimmy_: no ... you branch your branch ;)
[22:52] <asac> then you run bzr bd --merge --dont-purge
[22:52] <asac> well ... lets do it different
[22:52] <asac> jimmy_: you dump you patch in debian/patches/
[22:52] <asac> bzr add debian/patches/yournewpatch.patch
[22:52] <asac> add that patchname to the end of debian/patches/series
[22:53] <asac> then you try to build like: bzr bd --merge --dont-purge .
[22:53] <asac> err sorry
[22:53] <asac> then you try to build like: bzr bd --merge --dont-purge --working .
[22:53] <asac> when that builds ... test the deb files in ../build-area/
[22:53] <asac> then document in changelog and commit
[22:54] <jimmy_> asac: that sounds easier :)
[22:54] <asac> jimmy_: all clear?
[22:54] <asac> jimmy_: if patch doesn't appyl, the --dont-purge will take care that the source branch is kept in ../build-area/
[22:54] <asac> you can go there and fix the patch and so on
[22:54] <jimmy_> ok
[22:55] <asac> but thats not bzr specific anymore ... quilt is most likely the topic you might ask about then ;)
[22:55] <jimmy_> i am sure i'll ask later :)
[22:56] <jimmy_> thanks
[22:57] <jimmy_> going to attend a meeting now, be back later
[22:57] <asac> me off by then most likely
[23:39] <fta> asac, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=321612   they are going backward compared to what you want
[23:39] <fta> ... from me
[23:42] <fta> [reed], is there a way to stop receiving mails from bugzilla when just CC changed ?


[10:35] <ubotu> New bug: #119125 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 (restricted) "Black screen after suspend with compiz (dup-of: 96240)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119125
[05:35] <ubotu> New bug: #119340 in xorg-server (main) "libXau.6 is corrupted: Xorg will not start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119340
[05:41] <ubotu> New bug: #119283 in xorg (main) "Monitor not detected" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119283
[05:41] <ubotu> New bug: #119341 in xserver-xorg-video-vesa (main) "glxinfo command causes Xorg to abort on Dimension E520" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119341
[05:50] <ubotu> New bug: #119347 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "Unknown ATI graphics controller on Dimension E520" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119347
[07:10] <ubotu> New bug: #119353 in mesa (main) "dlopen /usr/lib/dri/i915_dri.so failed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119353
[07:20] <jcristau> heh, of course dri doesn't work if the dri drivers aren't installed :)
[07:56] <ubotu> New bug: #119362 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "Unknown Intel graphics controller on Intel D63578-200 motherboard" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119362
[10:05] <bryyce> tepsipakki: is debian going to be breaking apps like xcalc, xeyes, etc. out into separate packages, or are they going to be in the x11-apps?  I haven't been able to find split out apps in experimental, so am wondering if I misunderstood debian's plans
[10:12] <jcristau> bryyce: they'll be in x11-apps
[10:13] <bryyce> aha, they're not broken out then, gotcha
[10:14] <jcristau> only xauth and xinit have been broken out, the rest stay in conglomerate packages, but smaller than today's xbase-clients
[10:14] <bryyce> ok, gotcha, I wasn't clear on that
[10:16] <jcristau> (we already have too many packages anyway :))
[10:23] <ubotu> New bug: #119370 in xorg (main) "Intel Xorg driver not detected when installing Gutsy Tribe-1 on an Intel GMCHB0ICHB0 motherboard" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119370
[11:51] <ubotu> New bug: #119371 in xorg (main) "Gutsy Gibbon - Poor Video - Intel 82801H" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119371


[20:10] <VistaUser> everything else is a breeze to fix i have it in my trusty note book ( the one u hand write in lol)
[20:10] <Guest123> does anyone knows openemr?
[20:11] <malharhak> That case... I dunno, sorry
[20:12] <antoranz> is it possible to send a backtrace from gdb to a file?
[20:15] <SSJ_GZ> antoranz: http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/DeveloperTools/gdb/gdb/gdb_toc.html#TOC13
[20:17] <stof> hello
[20:17] <genii> !hello | stof
[20:19] <stof> est ce que je peut savoir c'est quoi cela, je vient d'installer kubuntu  et voila je me suis retrouver ici :D
[20:19] <aboSamoor> after upgrading to from kernel -19 to kernel -22 the suspend is not working, any idea how can I figure what is the error ?
[20:21] <stof> are you here men
[20:22] <genii> stof: French in #kubuntu-fr or #ubuntu-fr svp
[20:23] <stof> ok thank you genii, so here is just for english people ?
[20:23] <genii> stof: Yes. If you can ask or state your issue in English here, we are happy to try and assist
[20:23] <dwidmann> antoranz: an easy way of doing it would be just to save Konsole's scrollback ... that's how I did it last time I needed to
[20:25] <stof> ok tanks you, and see you soon good Bye
[20:26] <francisc1701> hi everyone!
[20:28] <dr_willis> VistaUser,  backup the xorg.conf ? its just a file.. copy it somewhere and name it xorg.conf.backup or somthing like that
[20:28] <mobile> ahoj
[20:28] <VistaUser> ok
[20:29] <ubuntu__> wow
[20:29] <francisc1701> I have a intel x3100 graphics card (965 chipset) and I was wondering how I could tell if hardy is using the intel driver or vesa
[20:29] <antoranz> dwidmann: I know that.... and I'd do it... unfortunately I want to get the backtrace of kate when it kills kde. I got the debugger waiting for me in the VTs
[20:29] <VistaUser> when i open xorg.conf its empty
[20:30] <francisc1701> xorg.conf doesn't say
[20:30] <dr_willis> VistaUser,  i would imagine you are doing a typo, or somthing basic wrong.
[20:30] <dr_willis> cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[20:30] <VistaUser> i am using terminal and using command gedit xong.conf
[20:31] <dr_willis> are you in the /etc/X11 directory? you are using the proper name? no spelling mistakes?
[20:31] <dr_willis> why do you want to 'edit' it when you asked how to back it up?
[20:31] <VistaUser> i did spelling mistake
[20:31] <VistaUser> i need to get to it to copy the file dont i?
[20:31] <dr_willis> Your use of the term 'get to it' is totally invalid
[20:31] <Guest123> is there any md5 decoder for ubuntu?
[20:31] <dr_willis> theres no 'getting to' the file
[20:31] <dr_willis> its at /etc/X11/ you do whatever you want with the file
[20:32] <VistaUser> ok ty
[20:32] <dr_willis> cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /path/to/whatever/xorg.conf.backup
[20:32] <genii> Guest123: md5 hashing is a one-way process. So no
[20:32] <DaskreecH> Konichiwa
[20:32] <VistaUser> ooo ok
[20:32] <dr_willis> Bash and Linux Basics. :)
[20:33] <DaskreecH> Hi VistaUser
[20:33]  * dr_willis wonders what a md5 decoder would  supposed to do exactly
[20:33] <VistaUser> hey do i know u?
[20:33] <DaskreecH> VistaUser: Likely not
[20:33] <VistaUser> lol ok hey
[20:34] <DaskreecH> Hay-ay!
[20:34] <Guest123> genii,  what does this mean?
[20:35] <VistaUser> lol
[20:35] <VistaUser> i gtg
[20:35] <DaskreecH> Catch you later
[20:35] <VistaUser> i gtg
[20:35] <Guest123> dr_willis, it decodes
[20:35] <Guest123> is it so hard?
[20:35] <VistaUser> ty dr_willis for all ur help
[20:35] <DaskreecH> Guest123: Md5 only works in one direction. YOu cannot use a MD5 sum and get back what you got the MD5sum of
[20:36] <Guest123> DaskreecH, so is it unpenetrable ?
[20:36] <Guest123> DaskreecH, so is it unpenetratable
[20:36] <DaskreecH> Guest123: For some meaning of that word. Yes
[20:37] <Guest123> but If I have a database in mysql and I dont remember the pass
[20:37] <Guest123> how am I supposed to get it back?
[20:37] <DaskreecH> Guest123: remember your password?
[20:37] <Guest123> except this
[20:37] <HappySmileMan> You can run a dictionary or brute-force attack on the hash, if it's a short password or a dictionary word this will basically get it by trial and error
[20:38] <DaskreecH> Guest123: You should have a function that allows you to overwrite your passwordx
[20:38] <HappySmileMan> But if it was a good password there's basically no recovering it
[20:38] <Guest123> HappySmileMan,
[20:38] <Guest123> I know all these staff.
[20:39] <Guest123> but in windows there is a decoder for hash tables
[20:39] <genii> Guest123: A trick which may work for you is to look at your bash history file, which should have in it the password you set whenever it was
[20:39] <Guest123> in kubuntu isn't there any similar?
[20:39] <DaskreecH> Guest123: it's doing the same thing that HappySmileMan just said
[20:40] <HappySmileMan> mdcrack runs in wine, would probably be fastest one
[20:40] <Guest123> ok the name of the programme?
[20:40] <genii> Guest123: There are brute-force methods if you are desperate
[20:40] <DaskreecH> genii: not always You can drop to the mysql subcommand line and do all commands there
[20:40] <HappySmileMan> I'd say just go to some site with an online database and search for hack
[20:40] <HappySmileMan> I think milworm has one? milworm.com?
[20:40] <genii> Guest123: However, first look at: ~/.bash_history        and see if it has the line you used originally to set the password
[20:40] <HappySmileMan> Not sure the exact URL, or if it's any good, but I've heard of it
[20:41] <genii> DaskreecH: Can start it up without loading the tables or so, eys
[20:41] <Guest123> ok,
[20:41] <Guest123> thanx for the advices
[20:41] <Guest123> something more
[20:41] <Guest123> how may I see
[20:41] <DaskreecH> Guest123: Or overwrite it with the mysql root account
[20:41] <Guest123> if my apache server is visible through the internet?
[20:41] <DaskreecH> genii: yes you can
[20:42] <Guest123> (with nmap somehow)
[20:42] <DaskreecH> Guest123: Try and load something from your external IP
[20:42] <genii> Guest123: Alternate way which we are now discussing: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql/171366
[20:43] <genii> Guest123: To see the bash_history file:    less ~/.bash_history                    use q to quit
[20:43] <Guest123> ok I got it
[20:44] <Guest123> about nmap?
[20:44] <Guest123> how may I scan my firewall?
[20:44] <dr_willis> I would say try some of those Online scanner web sites. You dont normally nmap from inside the firewall to test the firewall.
[20:45] <Guest123> ok , but if I would like to use it?
[20:46] <dr_willis> use it to do what exactly?
[20:48] <DawnLight> hello. is partition encryption possible to set up during installation?
[20:48] <dr_willis> I belive it is DawnLight  but i think that may require the alternative installer cd.. Ive never looked into it.
[20:48] <dr_willis> But i recall it mentioned as a 'new' feature
[20:48] <dr_willis> !encryption
[20:49] <DawnLight> no way... i've just finished downloading the live cd
[20:49] <Guest123> dr_willis,
[20:49] <dr_willis> !encrypt
[20:49] <DawnLight> !luks
[20:49] <Guest123> so se if there is any port open in my site
[20:49] <dr_willis> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedFilesystemOnIntrepid
[20:50] <dr_willis> Guest123,  you dont want to be scanning from 'inside' the firewall. use a portscanner web site to test your system
[20:50] <DawnLight> thanks
[20:50]  * genii hands dr_willis a coffee and some cookies
[20:51] <dr_willis> Yum
[20:51] <dr_willis> :P
[20:52] <genii> :)
[21:01] <owen_> Hi guys, just installed Kubuntu and the audio is really low even when cranked up to full on alsamixer, tried fiddling with the "options snd-hda-intel model=" in the file, but no luck, any ideas?
[21:01] <owen_> card is an Intel Hda btw
[21:02] <cenuij> owen_: crack all channel up to max, often for your sound output gear the pcm channel is the "main" channel
[21:03] <owen_> pcm is all the way
[21:03] <dr_willis> 'this knob goes to 11' :)
[21:03] <cenuij> ;)
[21:04] <owen_> I've noticed that BBC Iplayer goes up to 11, not sure if that was a joke on behalf of the programmers tho :P
[21:04] <cenuij> haha
[21:04] <cenuij> yes, yes it is
[21:05] <dr_willis> a Gag the never dies.  and becomes part of the culture
[21:06] <dr_willis> Hmm.. I just saw a web page that said vlc was now a qt4 application.. I never noticed that...
[21:06] <dwidmann> dr_willis: has been for a while now.
[21:06] <cenuij> does that mean vlc wont break everyones project by runing a silly repo?
[21:07] <dr_willis> looks the same to me.. :) but i guess that could be  its theme..
[21:07] <dr_willis> I guess i never got the memo.
[21:07] <cenuij> i can abstract the theme, and put the traffic cone on a well known statue
[21:08] <cenuij> and sadly it woule be the most recognised thing for a city of 6 million :/
[21:08] <cenuij> i.e. glasgow :>
[21:09] <owen_> irrelevant but, has anyone ever got audio in ubuntu working first time from installation, I've been running from about 6.06 and I've never had an installation where everything has worked ><
[21:09] <owen_> also, glasgow has much less than 6 million surely?
[21:09] <dr_willis> I cant say that ive ever had any audio issues at all.
[21:09] <DaskreecH> DawnLight: You can encrypt a Directory with the live CD
[21:10] <cenuij> owen_: perhaps, but maybe only by 1 m. it was called britains 2nd city for a reason
[21:10] <DawnLight> DaskreecH: i'm going for full encryption
[21:10] <cenuij> shrug
[21:10] <DaskreecH> I hate Audio in Ibex
[21:11] <DaskreecH> In basically every other release I could walk around the house or sit outside and hear music
[21:11] <owen_> population of scotland is 5 million :L
[21:11] <DaskreecH> Now in Ibex I have to be right beside the computer sometimes with my ear to the speaker to hear anything
[21:12] <gl_> hi, i installed kubuntu in the eee and I uinstalled cups. Now I want to install it again and I am not sure if the program printconfig was installed originlly. Any clues?
[21:12] <owen_> DaskreecH - I thought that was a problem, not the default setting?
[21:13] <DaskreecH> I dunno
[21:14] <DaskreecH> And Skype no longer works
[21:14] <DaskreecH> Well
[21:14] <DaskreecH> "works"
[21:14] <cenuij> owen_: 5, in total?
[21:14] <DaskreecH> Anytime I make a call or get a call it says There is an audio problem
[21:14] <DaskreecH> However if I test audio it works fine
[21:14] <DaskreecH> If I test audio and make a call in 2-3 seconds it also works
[21:14] <DaskreecH> It's just really frustrating
[21:14] <cenuij> owen_: i'd be kind of shocked that was the figure 20 years ago :<
[21:15] <owen_> google it :P
[21:15] <owen_> its like 5.1 million
[21:15] <cenuij> so that would make glasgow 190k-250k
[21:15] <cenuij> or no wait, cant be right
[21:16] <owen_> nearer 600,000 apparently
[21:16] <cenuij> 250k is edinburgh city center
[21:16] <DaskreecH> can anyone check if printconfig is installed and tell gl_ ? Esp if they haven't installed cups :-P
[21:19] <cenuij> owen_: while your right, and iḿ wrong, i'd still wager 6 mil, but clearly not in glasgow as that would make it the same size as london
[21:21] <cenuij> i must revise on scotland, especially if the 2md city title goes to leeds )
[21:21] <cenuij> both brum and manc are far more deserving :>
[21:22] <owen_> 2nd biggest city would be Brummieland wouldnt it?
[21:24] <owen_> ah, sod this for a game of soldiers, too much fiddling for my liking, wacom didnt work, sound doesnt work, graphics card drivers dont work
[21:25] <owen_> back to windows I go and I'll see if Ubuntu has any of these problems fixed by the next distro
[21:25] <owen_> probably not because I think it's actually got worse since 6.06, at least my wacom worked then >_>
[21:30] <gl_> please can somebody tell me if printconfig is installed by default in intrepid?
[21:32] <Worm`s> hello
[21:32] <Dillizar> my camera its not supported by 8.10!!! can any body help me to install drivers or something
[21:33] <gl_> webcam?
[21:33] <Dillizar> yes
[21:34] <gl_> did it work before?
[21:34] <e-head_> hey
[21:35] <Dillizar> yes on 8.04
[21:36] <gl_> sorry i have to go!
[21:36] <Dillizar> ok
[21:37] <genii> gl_: Since printconf is in universe I'd have to say no
[21:37] <genii> Bah he went
[21:39] <chris__> hey i got a question
[21:39] <genii> Shoot
[21:39] <chris__> got a canon mx310 printer series fax
[21:40] <chris__> runny hardy heron
[21:40] <chris__> runnin*
[21:40] <chris__> it reads it and everything
[21:40] <chris__> but wont print
[21:40] <chris__> what i need to do to get it to print?
[21:42] <genii> chris__: Try using the PIXMA MP150  drivers in CUPS
[21:42] <chris__> ok
[21:42] <chris__> open cups and then install through that?
[21:42] <chris__> im new to this
[21:43] <genii> chris__: Ope:   System ... Printing        and then from there
[21:43] <chris__> ok
[21:43] <vbgunz> how do you properly launch kdesu in 8.10?
[21:44] <genii> vbgunz: Try kdesudo
[21:44] <vbgunz> ok
[21:44] <vbgunz> genii: thanks :)
[21:45] <chris__> linux makes windows look like shit
[21:47] <chris__> i figured out the seagate free agent drive
[21:48] <chris__> GParted---> format to ext3 with 909.3 swap
[21:50] <chris__> what is better about Intrepid versus Hardy Heron?
[21:50] <genii> Not much actually. It's an intermediate release
[21:51] <chris__> i had problems with it
[21:51] <chris__> seemed buggy
[21:51] <chris__> especially as multimedia was concerned
[21:52] <demon_> how caN I UPGRATE gspcav drivers??
[21:52] <genii> Yes they are struggling with pulseaudio and other things
[21:52] <chris__> i could not get it to configure webcam, hardy heron does
[21:52] <chris__> i used wine and installed the software that came with it
[21:52] <chris__> works beautifully
[21:54] <demon_> chris__, thats a VERY GOOD IDEA
[21:54] <demon_> :D
[21:54] <demon_> and will it work with amsn??
[21:54] <chris__> it works through meebo
[21:54] <chris__> and through camorama
[21:54] <demon_> but
[21:54] <chris__> i imagine it would through amsn
[21:54] <chris__> havent tried
[21:54] <demon_> will the drivers run them self when i use some program that need the cam
[21:54] <chris__> yes
[21:55] <chris__> it works surprised me a lot
[21:55] <demon_> WOW
[21:55] <chris__> didnt expect it to work with linux
[21:55] <demon_> but
[21:55] <chris__> it said vista ready
[21:55] <chris__> when i bought it
[21:55] <demon_> why it doesnt work the flash :D like that
[21:55] <chris__> then popped the cd in ran with wine and voila
[21:55] <demon_> why cant i install it the windows version
[21:56] <chris__> it works perfectly
[21:56] <demon_> chris__, now if you can tell me where can i see what kidn of camera i have i will kiss you :P
[21:57] <chris__> device manager
[21:57] <kaminix> Can anyone tell why I'm not getting any sound from ZSNES?
[21:57] <chris__> system/ add remove/ device manager
[21:57] <kaminix> Or well, guess anyway. :p
[21:59] <demon_> chris__, will lsusb do :D
[22:00] <chris__> demon_, im not sure im fairly new at this myself
[22:01] <demon_> lol
[22:01] <demon_> moi aussi
[22:01] <demon_> :D
[22:01] <chris__> ;-)
[22:03] <demon_> hell i went to my cam site and they dont have my camera but on the picture of the commercial they use my cam but is till dont know it's name
[22:07] <sigp239> How do I add an account in Kopete?
[22:08] <mrksbrd> anyone know if open office 3 is in the repo's yet?
[22:08] <chris__> genii, use new ppd or old ppd
[22:15] <chris__> genii, it works
[22:15] <chris__> thank you
[22:23] <Fieldy> !vmware
[22:25] <Fieldy> hm. nothing about vmware server console or whatever that thing is to connect to remote servers, anyone know anything about getting it installed in kubuntu?
[22:26] <sigp239> Is Kopete not working with yahoo?
[22:29] <demon_> it works i think
[22:29] <demon_> lemme check
[22:29] <demon_> yes
[22:32] <ott0> anyone know how to fix service loop errors when using insserv?
[22:33] <ott0> like i try to run chkconfig vmware off and i get stuff life insserv: There is a loop between service checkroot and keyboard-setup
[22:33] <sigp239> demon_: I can't get my webcam to work with it though
[22:33] <demon_> well thats is because of the stupid new kernel :D
[22:34] <demon_> but
[22:34] <ott0> i have a feeling /usr/share/insserv/check-initd-order -g will help me somehow
[22:34] <sigp239> demon_: My webcam works otherewise though.  Just doesn't seem to work in yahoo with kopete
[22:35] <demon_> try with pidgin :D
[22:36] <demon_> no pidgin doesnt support cam
[22:36] <demon_> well
[22:36] <demon_> does it work with other IM
[22:36] <sigp239> not sure haven't tried.  but it works when i open the kopete configuration menu
[22:36] <demon_> btw did you tried to set the cam on Kopete
[22:37] <demon_> hmm
[22:37] <demon_> then try it with some friend
[22:37] <demon_> D:
[22:37] <sigp239> I did I tried it with my wife on the other computer she is using windows and yahoo messenger, but when I click "invite to my webcam" on kopete, she does not get anything at all
[22:38] <vbgunz> How can I turn off my wireless card?
[22:38] <vbgunz> I have a lan connection and prefer it...
[22:39] <vbgunz> and how do I stop knetworkmanager from automatically starting up?
[22:40] <sigp239> vbgunz: do you have a physical switch that can turn it off?
[22:40] <demon_> well
[22:42] <vbgunz> sigp239: no, I don't believe so. desktop with a simple card
[22:42] <sigp239> vbgunz: I know this may not be an elegant solution, but you could simply take it out.
[22:42] <vbgunz> how can I stop knetworkmanager from starting up and going into the system tray?
[22:42] <demon_> lol sigp239
[22:43] <chfwiggum> hi all! how do i install all .doc and ALL kde4-devs with apt-get? tia.
[22:43] <vbgunz> sigp239: true, I am feeling real lazy though :/
[22:43] <chfwiggum> guess there has to be an easy way
[22:44] <vbgunz> chfwiggum: looking for help on an app and being told theres no help file for it?
[22:44] <chfwiggum> well, help aint creating ansearch index, yeah files seem missing
[22:45] <chfwiggum> but mostly id like to be sure to be able to compile plasmoids
[22:45] <sigp239> vbgunz:  Yea there should be a way to set it through the software
[22:45] <vbgunz> chfwiggum: I personally noticed the docs are pretty incomplete and there doesn't seem to be a solution to it :(
[22:45] <demon_> vbgunz, you can always remove it from  synaptic :P
[22:45] <chfwiggum> ...which wouldnt work right now
[22:46] <demon_> !off topic
[22:46] <demon_> !offtopic
[22:46] <vbgunz> I just have no idea how knetworkmanager is starting up and going into my system tray... I'd really like to not see it
[22:47] <chfwiggum> !ot demon_
[22:47] <chfwiggum> !ot | demon_
[22:47] <dr_willis> I was thinkig knetwork manager was needed... but ive not really tried to remove it.
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> to remove network-manager you'd need to set up a network entry in /etc/network/interfaces
[22:48] <demon_> lol
[22:48] <vbgunz> well... am not really trying to remove it... just get it the hell out of my system tray :(
[22:48] <demon_> hey hey i dont really think that removing it is a good idea you may turn up with no internet :P
[22:49] <vbgunz> 4.2 is going to rock big time...  I need help!!!!
[22:49]  * demon_ gives vbgunz some balls
[22:49] <demon_> !ask | thiago_
[22:50] <demon_> what seems to be the problem thiago_ ask
[22:51] <thiago_> Every time I record a CD/DVD on Kubuntu, after the recording is complete, the cdrom driver simply disapears and I cant mount it back as it keeps stating it is write-protected... what is happening? I used to record CD/DVD one after the other and this never occurred before
[22:51] <demon_> thiago_, you cant unmount it if the cd rom its empty
[22:51] <demon_> :P
[22:52] <thiago_> I do not unmount it
[22:52] <thiago_> it is automatic, once a CD recording completes the driver gets unmounted
[22:53] <demon_> you cant find the CD-Rom?
[22:53] <bayen> so I just installed 8.10, and I'm at a loss for why the screen keeps flashing up *something* every ten seconds or so...  it never comes up long enough for me to see, just kind of jitters, and it seems to be only on the lower half of the screen...  really weird...
[22:53] <thiago_> no
[22:53] <demon_> what happens when you put a cd
[22:53] <noaXess> does anybody has also problem with suspend and resuming intrepid on a notebook?
[22:53] <noaXess> in hardy all was good..
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> bayen: I think I can help you in just a minute
[22:53] <noaXess> but now, if i suspend to ram or distk, can get back my machine
[22:54] <noaXess> :(
[22:54] <bayen> JontheEchidna: take your time ^_^
[22:54] <demon_> thiago_, ?
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> bayen: http://blog.nixternal.com/2008.10.22/kubuntu-intrepid-dual-monitor-blinking/
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> see also: https://launchpad.net/bugs/278471
[22:55] <thiago_> if I put the cd nothing happens
[22:55] <thiago_> I can read its contents, and it it is an empty cd I can record anything to it
[22:56] <thiago_> my cd burner software even states no CD driver was found
[22:56] <thiago_> this only happens after I record the first CD
[22:56] <thiago_> before that everything is fine, normal
[22:57] <demon_> i had the same problem few months ago :) but when i put the cd back every thing was ok!
[22:57] <vbgunz> anyone have any idea how knetworkmanager is starting up? I mean *yay* I am connected... *boo* I know, please shoo from my system tray?
[22:58] <demon_> vbgunz, i can help you but i am on ubuntu now but why dont you just remove it from favorite programs thats how i did it on Xubuntu
[22:58] <vbgunz> favorite programs?
[22:59] <jussi01> vbgunz: just close it - right click, quit. next boot it shouldnt start
[22:59] <bayen> JontheEchidna: thankee very much! :D
[22:59] <vbgunz> jussi01 not true... the mofo is out to get me :(
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> bayen: yup, no problem
[23:00] <jussi01> vbgunz: try to keep it family friendly... :) so it doesnt ask you whether you want to start it next boot when you quit it?
[23:00] <vbgunz> nope
[23:00] <vbgunz> just asked are you sure
[23:01] <jussi01> vbgunz: 1 moment please
[23:03] <cbr> why is intel gm965 pretty crappy @ ubuntu?
[23:03] <cbr> 250 fps @ glxgears is nothing to be proud of tbh
[23:03] <demon_> vbgunz, thats on xubuntu
[23:05] <jussi01> vbgunz: There was a way, I just cant find it atm, sorry
[23:05] <labthug> Does anyone in here have experience with madwifi?
[23:05] <thiago_> anyone have any thoughts on my issue with my CDRW driver disappearing after a CD burn?
[23:06] <labthug> I built, installed, and modprobed (and rebooted) but am not getting a wifi entry in ifconfig
[23:06] <vbgunz> I just found this ... go to /etc/xdg/autostart ... are these things getting started automatically on a kubuntu system?
[23:06] <thiago_> To get it back I need to shut my laptop off(if I do only restart it the problem will remain)
[23:07] <jussi01> vbgunz: yeah, thats what I was looking for, try moving the knetwork manager out fromthere
[23:08] <vbgunz> jussi01, I am not going to reboot or log out/in now but I hope it works in the future :)
[23:08] <jussi01> vbgunz: me also :)
[23:09] <demon_> thiago_, i dont know how to use Xchat this is my first day :D i use to use konversation
[23:10] <thiago_> I just clicked at it accidentally.... sorry... I was trying some way to ping you privatelly... I am unable to follow the conversation with so many messages coming up
[23:13] <TheGentleman> I did something wrong and I need help:  on a kubuntu 8.04 I removed knetwork-manager by mistake making it impossible to connect the computer. I tried downloading wicd and putting it on usb key and copy it in that computer. At the dpkg -i command i got a list of errors and warnings.  Can anyone take some time to help me?
[23:14] <dek> is there a KSnapshot or similar for KDE4?
[23:15] <jussi01> yes
[23:16] <dek> jussi01: what's its name?
[23:16] <cbr> ksnapshot
[23:16] <cbr> tadaa!
[23:16] <dek> but the port for kde4 is done? if I try to install it I get: "No candidate version found for ksnapshot-kde4"
[23:18] <jussi01> !info ksnapshot
[23:19] <dek> ok, thanks :P
[23:22] <chfwiggum> noob question:how do i find out the kde installation directory. echo $KDEDIR gives no output
[23:28] <DrUnKnMuNkY> i can't connect to any encrypted wireless networks. can anyone help?
[23:29] <ghrocks> hi everyone, i updated my system kernel yesterday and when i turned my computer on today the grub didn't show up any boot option, it appeared only like if i was on the terminal but it says grub>  and that's all, right now im running the live cd and it's not recognizing me any partition to install, however dolphin can see my partitions, any idea of what can this be???
[23:31] <TheGentleman> where can I download network-manager (latest kubuntu 8.04 version) ?  I need the deb file, not to install it
[23:31] <TheGentleman> or any other package from the distribution
[23:32] <DrUnKnMuNkY> TheGentleman: if you use the -d option it will only download the .deb file and not install it
[23:32] <DrUnKnMuNkY> the packages are located in /var/cache/apt/archives
[23:32]  * Twylight is percocets again
[23:32] <maxbaldwin> So I pressed Alt+esc and a red X came up, and accidentally clicked my taskbar/bar thing. now I don't have a taskbar
[23:33] <maxbaldwin> how do I get it back?
[23:33] <TheGentleman> DrUnKnMuNkY,   like  sudo apt-get -d install network-manager  ?
[23:33] <TheGentleman>  where exactly do I put the -d option?  i couldn't understand it from man apt-get
[23:34] <wesley_> !aptfix
[23:34] <dek> where does KRunner get its list of programs? I have Krusader (file manager) installed, but if I want to run it I only get "Krusader - Root mode" when I should get both it and "Krusader" alone.
[23:34] <DrUnKnMuNkY> TheGentleman: that looks right to me
[23:34] <DrUnKnMuNkY> try it out
[23:35] <Intrepid> I tried to open the k9copy handbook and khelpcenter reported that it does not exist. How can I solve this?
[23:35] <TheGentleman> DrUnKnMuNkY, if it is not right it would delete my wicd installation.... leaving me with no connection!
[23:35] <|DS|> Intrepid I'de look for better advice
[23:36] <DrUnKnMuNkY> TheGentleman: if it appears to start then hit ctrl-c and it will stop
[23:36] <|DS|> drunkmuhky try not pressing ctrl-c
[23:36] <DrUnKnMuNkY> TheGentleman: your other option is to browse http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu and see if you can find the file
[23:36] <TheGentleman> isn't there any safer way to dowload a package?
[23:37] <TheGentleman> ok, thanks
[23:38] <DrUnKnMuNkY> TheGentleman: i just checked that syntax (for apt-get) and you'll be fine
[23:50] <demon_> thiago_,  did you restart your pc??
[23:53] <wesley_> how do i make a map that links to /media/sda2/video
[23:54] <dr_willis> wesley_,  a map?  You can make a 'link' to that location with the ' ln -s ' command
[23:55] <dr_willis> techhnically thats a 'soft link' :)
[23:55] <wesley_> yeaj like in home that video links to video on sda2
[23:55] <dr_willis> ln -s /one/location /other/location/that/i/always/get/backwards
[23:55] <dr_willis> I always get the order backwards.. :P then i try to rember to reverse them.. then i get conrused even more..
[23:55] <wesley_> i can make a link?
[23:56] <dr_willis> whever you want
[23:56] <dr_willis> its just a special file
[23:56] <dr_willis> ln -s /media/drive  /home/billgates/mymoney
[23:56] <dr_willis> I may or may not have that backwards :P
[23:56] <wesley_> how does i call ? i can make them for devices
[23:56] <dr_willis> call ?  huh?
[23:57] <dr_willis> 'everything in linux is a file' :) /dev/whatevers    are just special files    if that what you are asking about.
[23:57] <wesley_> like you make in windows a shortcur=t


[00:13] <ThomasB> rhythmbox on 14.04 needs last.fm scrobbling immediately
[00:22] <roothorick> This probably should get documented somewhere
[00:22] <roothorick> some Thinkpad models have a firmware option "Boot Order Lock"
[00:23] <roothorick> if you're booting via UEFI and that's enabled, grub-install will make the system not boot
[02:47] <blocky> has anyone experienced an issue where the system is automounting a usb external hard drive as root instead of the desktop user?
[02:50] <blocky> nvm resolved, was not in fuse group
[06:46] <ChristW> I have a problem with a video card stuck at software rendering mode. Here's some info: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6831414/  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6831424/  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6831410/
[11:28] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[11:45] <noiyu> hello
[11:46] <noiyu> I have a problem with python, gobject and ubiquity, which crashes: paste.ubuntu.com/6837365
[15:07] <genii> It's very odd. Yesterday I had no "Guest" account at lightdm login. Today I do. But lightdm-kde-greeter.conf hasn't been changed since Dec 20.
[15:20] <genii> Looks like some apparmor update.
[18:58] <Strawb> Hi!
[18:58] <Strawb> is there any expert on linux to help me?
[19:14] <k1l> Strawb: nope. no expert here ;p
[19:15] <genii> !details | Strawb
[19:33] <ThomasB> compizzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!