[02:07] <rww> Someone make it so I can do !ot,u,punctuation,stopfailingattypinglawd > user
[02:09] <Jordan_U> !ot,u,punctuation,stopfailingattypinglawd is <reply> Sigh
[02:10] <Jordan_U> !ot,u,punctuation,stopfailingattypinglawd
[02:10] <Jordan_U> !forget ot,u,punctuation,stopfailingattypinglawd
[02:21] <ApOgEE> hi all
[02:21] <ApOgEE> greetings!
[02:22] <ApOgEE> can I know why my nick is banned in #ubuntu ?
[02:22] <rww> I don't know whether you caught my reply in #ubuntu, but your shell provider is banned from #ubuntu because of abuse.
[02:22] <ApOgEE> how can i fix it?
[02:22] <rww> i.e., the ban is on bshellz.net, not you.
[02:22] <rww> !shells
[02:23] <ApOgEE> rww: is that mean i'm not allowed to use this shell? i didn't do anything wrong
[02:23] <rww> ApOgEE: Correct, clients on bshellz.net cannot join #ubuntu.
[02:24] <ApOgEE> i see... why don't u just ban specific abusive user? since not all bshellz.net user are bad
[02:26] <rww> ApOgEE: because bshellz has a lax account policy that allows ban evaders to create multiple accounts, and our operator team does not have faith in bshellz' administrators' willingness to respond to such cases.
[02:26] <rww> That multiple bshellz users have tried to get bshellz administration to talk to us about this and it has not thusfar happened is a demonstration of that.
[02:26] <rww> (well, our IRC Council, not "us")
[02:27] <faizul> hi ApOgEE
[02:27] <ApOgEE> hi faizul
[02:27] <faizul> ApOgEE, demo duk wak genamo sinih ?
[02:28] <rww> faizul: #ubuntu-ops is for resolution of bans in core channels, all of which are English-speaking. How can I help you?
[02:30] <ApOgEE> faizul: i'm trying to resolve my shell issue here. Sek ni tok wi kawe guno bshellz.net. keno banned. Natey apo la
[02:31] <faizul> ApOgEE, ok. good luck. bytheway, thanks rww
[02:31] <rww> o.O
[02:33] <ApOgEE> rww: can i help to talk with bshellz administrator to resolve this? Actually, what did they have to do to fix this issue.
[02:34] <rww> As the page ubottu linked says, "If you are a host or network provider administrator and your host or network is banned, please join #ubuntu-ops or contact the Ubuntu IRC Council in order to resolve the issue and ensure compliance."
[02:34] <rww> I'd recommend the latter, personally.
[02:35] <ApOgEE> is that means that i should ask the admin to come here?
[02:36] <rww> ApOgEE: I'd recommend having them email irc-council at lists.ubuntu.com instead, giving the tendency of them and IRCC to not be around.
[02:42] <nhandler> rww: We are around, just not 24/7. Emailing the ML allows us all to see it, gives us a nice record of the conversation, and would probably be useful in this situation (there is a rather long bshellz history)
[02:43] <rww> Yay, my diabolical plan to ferret out an IRCC member by complaining about IRCC members succeeded ;P
[02:46] <ApOgEE> i see
[03:12] <IdleOne> ApOgEE: Please don't idle in here
[03:13] <ApOgEE> faizul: freq = (phase velocity) / (wavelength)ok sorry
[03:13] <ApOgEE> i'm trying to cantact them
[03:13] <ApOgEE> ups... wrong paste
[03:14] <ApOgEE> thanks rww and nhandler ... i hape i can resolve my issue
[07:00] <Seven_Six_Two> How do you choose your channel operators?
[07:01] <Tm_T> !canibeanop
[07:01] <Seven_Six_Two> Tm_T, Thank you.
[07:02] <Tm_T> np (:
[07:24] <jussi> Seven_Six_Two: is there something more we can help you with?
[07:25] <Seven_Six_Two> jussi, not at the moment, thanks. I've already done most of the requirements to appy for an operator position. I now only have to apply to the team on launchpad.
[07:26] <jussi> Seven_Six_Two: ok, great. Please be reminded that htis channel is no idle, as per the toopic :)
[07:26] <Seven_Six_Two> jussi, unless of course, you know of something that is commonly forgotten, and you think there might actually be more
[07:27] <Seven_Six_Two> jussi, no problem. Thanks!
[08:31] <Tm_T> ikonia: thanks, didn't notice that
[08:31] <ikonia> not a problem
[11:17] <popey> bug 749660
[11:17] <popey> bah!
[12:51] <ikonia> it really frustrates me when people post a forum link and say "help with this"
[12:52] <ikonia> I know it can be used to show helpful information, but it just seems like lazy
[12:53] <knome> maybe a small intro like "i'm having problems with X, see details at LINK" would help that, aye?
[12:53] <ikonia> I think it's just me personally, I don't like it
[12:54] <knome> i don't personally like *forums*
[12:54] <ikonia> aspects of it annoyme, in that you've posted it on the forums, let the forums help rather than drag IRC in, plus the ammount of just utter random poor advice ruins the thread, then to just stick it in IRC seems lazy
[12:55] <ikonia> I personlly don't like many aspects of it, but I suspect a large part of that is me being unreasonable with my personal standards
[12:56] <knome> i suppose forums are great for people with ADHD or those who just can't spend ages in front of the computer. you get to ask the question, and people will probably answer, and when you get back, the information is right there
[13:09] <bazhang> there's a factoid for that iirc
[13:09] <Pici> !here
[13:12] <ikonia> !find mdadm
[13:12] <ikonia> !info mdadm
[13:24] <jussi> actually, I like that one, as we reasonably often get people asking about yahoo and voice. any peoples who disagree?
[13:24] <popey> I disagree only because I dont like that website
[13:24] <jussi> popey: oh, yeah, apart from that
[13:25] <Pici> I'm not so sure we should be adding natty-only factoids just yet.
[13:25] <jussi> Pici: another good point.
[13:27] <gord> we refer to $random_website for factoids? i don't like that at all
[13:29] <tsimpson> well, "we" are supposed to review the website before accepting a factoid, and anyone can always copy+paste to help.u.c (as long as copyright allows)
[13:29] <gord> its more that putting things on random website removes control, for something that is supposed to be good information, that seems like a bad idea to me
[13:30] <Pici> Well, we probably should go through the factoids that we do have at some point.
[13:31] <tsimpson> just because something isn't on help.u.c does not necessarily make it bad, but I'd prefer to copy it there
[13:32] <Pici> Right.  There are some good external sources out there.
[13:34] <jussi> like psychocats is usually ok
[13:34] <bazhang> guessing webupd8's haguichi would be even less acceptable
[13:37]  * popey shudders
[13:38] <Pici> I was just thinking (oh no!), I'm not sure if this is even applicable for the stuff we run, but would it make sense to have a nagios/similar instance plus some custom plugins to monitor the status of all of our bots plus whatever data we can get about freenode's state externally?
[13:39] <jussi> what is nagios?
[13:39] <popey> o_O
[13:39]  * jussi googles
[13:39] <Pici> Its a monitoring package.
[13:39] <bazhang> nagios3-core
[13:40] <Pici> Maybe thats a bit heavy, there are similar things, I just don't remember their names right now.
[13:43] <jussi> Pici: hrm, Im not sure we want to monitor the whole machines/vps instances the bots run on - there is a host of other stuff running on them also. if its just monitoring the bot processes, I dont see too many advantages of having this?
[13:43] <jussi> ie. what problem would this solve?
[13:44] <Pici> jussi: times where we don't realize a bot has died and we need to scramble to get another one up.
[13:45] <jussi> Pici: so just an email if the bot dies? or is there more to it than that?
[13:45] <Pici> jussi: I was thinking more of a dashboard of irc status stuff.
[13:45] <Pici> jussi: Let me think of some more ideas and maybe throw something together externally to see if this would be helpful.
[13:46] <Pici> Mabye I'm just trying to overanalyze a solution to something that isn't a problem.
[13:46] <jussi> ok
[13:46] <jussi> Just remember the servers the bots run on arent exclusively for the bots
[13:47] <Pici> jussi: No, I completely understand that.
[13:50] <jussi> on the subject of ideas, I was thinking of someway of automating the removal of people from here who idle - If we used a bot for that then it would feel a lot less personal and more like oh, the bot removed me, not damn, I got kicked by $operator, nasty person. Its a perception thing only though. Perhaps if a non identified person hasnt spoke for 15 mins they get removed? (with some nicks excepted). or something like that?
[13:50] <jussi> thoughts?
[13:50] <popey> what if they auto rejoin
[13:51] <jussi> popey: most clients dont auto rejoin on remove, but then it would be up to a op to sort it
[13:51] <bazhang> seems like another unnecessary layer of complexity
[13:51] <Pici> Have we been having problems with non-ops idling here?
[13:52] <bazhang> not since most of them have been made ops
[13:52] <Pici> bazhang: :P
[13:52] <bazhang> :)
[13:54] <jussi> haha
[13:54] <jussi> its just something Ive noticed over time, but if you feel there is no issue, then ok :)
[13:55] <nhandler> I think for the most part, the OPs are fine about catching idling users. As long as they include a nice explanation for the removal as a message, I think it is fine. A bot sounds like overkill. But we should get a bit more strict about making people (especially our OPs) be identified to be in here. If they aren't identified, you really can't be certain they are who you think they are
[15:24] <ikonia> council, any joy on updating/writing the problem user / blanket ban policy ?
[15:25] <ikonia> (council members I should say)
[15:28] <Pici> I'm trying to figure out what Dragonbut is even asking
[15:29] <ikonia> noise
[15:29] <Pici> whatever.
[15:29] <ikonia> waste of time
[15:29] <Pici> @mark #ubuntu Dragonbut
[15:29] <ikonia> good call
[15:30] <ikonia> he marked me as partially useful
[15:30] <Pici> %mark ikonia this person is partially useful
[15:30] <ikonia> ha
[15:32] <mneptok> ikonia: can you make me a grilled cheese sandwich and a jet-pack?
[15:32] <ikonia> no
[15:32] <ikonia> I am only partially useful
[15:32] <mneptok> how about just the sandwich?
[15:32] <mneptok> ;)
[15:32] <ikonia> ok
[15:32] <mneptok> you are, indeed, partially useful.
[15:33]  * mneptok makes a notation on his "list"
[15:39] <ikonia> I give in, too much random advice in #ubuntu at the moment
[15:39] <ikonia> someone has a problem with gnome-keyring and the advice is "use seahorse"
[16:05] <ikonia> ood, autobleh didn't place a forward
[16:06] <ikonia> !motu
[16:06] <ikonia> !packaging
[17:55] <IdleOne> ^^ ray24
[17:55] <ikonia> I look forward to him rejoining with a ray of sunshine then
[17:55] <IdleOne> see if he is in a better mood today
[17:56] <jussi> we have a lot of bans in here at the moment, if you own one, please review
[17:56] <IdleOne> jussi: there are several I set but that was due to a oops by elky and we reset them
[17:56] <IdleOne> so I don't "own" them all
[17:57] <jussi> yeah, there shouldnt be bans in here for more than a few days unless its something really bad.
[17:58] <ikonia> oly562/bacta/aborticide are one's I'd not like to see removed and more time wasting with them
[17:58] <IdleOne> agreed
[18:15] <Pici> oops
[18:30] <IdleOne> hmm
[19:04] <IdleOne> err
[19:04] <Pici> nice
[19:05] <IdleOne> how do I list q's again?
[19:06] <tsimpson> /mode #ubuntu-ops =q
[19:06] <Pici> 0
[19:06] <IdleOne> q list is 0
[19:07] <tsimpson> I emptied most of it
[19:08] <tsimpson> probably a good idea to check the q's in #u too
[19:37] <LjL> can i set some modes too
[19:37] <LjL> i wanna set modes
[20:30] <LjL> thanks jussi, but was having dinner ;)
[21:19] <Pici> meh, I'm out for a bit.
[21:22]  * LjL pats picipici on the back
[21:31] <guntbert> please have a look at YankDownUnder in #u, his advice seem a bit off the mark...


[00:58] <smallfoot-> can someone unban me from #ubuntu-offtopic?
[00:58] <smallfoot-> i have been banned a very long time
[00:59] <Pici> smallfoot-: Do you remember why you were banned?
[01:00] <smallfoot-> no
[01:02] <Pici> smallfoot-: Could you please read this and let me know when you are finished  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[01:03] <smallfoot-> aff, must not be an asshole, blah, blah, soon you will have to agree to an EULA to use IRC, like you have to agree on EULA to use Windows
[01:04] <nickrud> smallfoot- we have kids hanging around, the channels are disney g rated.
[01:04] <bazhang> I already lifted the ban
[01:04] <smallfoot-> oh
[01:04] <smallfoot-> oh
[01:04] <bazhang> at least on the ip address
[01:04] <smallfoot-> Cannot join #ubuntu-offtopic (You are banned).
[01:04] <smallfoot-> i still cant join
[01:04] <bazhang> oh ubuntu-offtopic
[01:04] <smallfoot-> what, how can you know my ip address? i have cloak, so it must be hidden
[01:04] <Pici> You were banned for being hostile as well as for using harsh language
[01:04] <bazhang> that is Hobbsee
[01:05] <smallfoot-> im never hostile, i never threat anyone, but yes i did use harsh language
[01:05] <Pici> I'm looking at it, since she isn't around.
[01:05] <smallfoot-> also, isnt there any ubuntu channel without kids in it?
[01:05] <bazhang> smallfoot-, you can get into #ubuntu now?
[01:06] <nickrud> ah, work day is over. time to go. See you all later
[01:06] <smallfoot-> bazhang, i am in #ubuntu now, but cant get in #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:06] <bazhang> cya nickrud
[01:06] <Pici> smallfoot-: There are no Ubuntu channels that allow such language
[01:06] <bazhang> smallfoot-, that is a different op
[01:06] <smallfoot-> and i must goto the offtopic channel, because im not allowed to talk about some stuff in #ubuntu
[01:06] <bazhang> smallfoot-, or you could say it inside your head and not type foul language on irc
[01:07] <bazhang> ie act like an adult.
[01:07] <smallfoot-> well, i been banned in #ubuntu-offtopic for a long time, and if i talk about offtopic stuff in #ubuntu, then i get banned, so i must get unbanned to follow the rules
[01:07] <Pici> And you must follow the rules to get unbanned
[01:07] <bazhang> smallfoot-, that is not true; just stay ontopic and type your foul language on an open office document
[01:08] <smallfoot-> :(
[01:08] <smallfoot-> but i wanna talk about other stuff too, on-topic all the time is boring :(
[01:08] <bazhang> smallfoot-, then go to a different channel as #ubuntu will never allow that.
[01:08] <smallfoot-> yeah, thats why i need goto #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:09] <bazhang> smallfoot-, that is a false equivalence; you can stay on topic on #ubuntu, or not join #ubuntu.
[01:10] <smallfoot-> yeah, but i want to talk about some stuff that is not asking for help, so i need go into #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:10] <bazhang> smallfoot-, best to part now.
[01:10] <smallfoot-> because i want to talk about ubuntu, but (now i know) that i can only ask about support in #ubuntu
[01:10] <smallfoot-> Pici, please unban me from #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:10] <bazhang> smallfoot-, the operator in charge of your ban is not here, and idling is not allowed in this channel.
[01:10] <smallfoot-> oh, but im not idling (yet)
[01:11] <smallfoot-> hmm.. only Hobbsee can unban me? hes never here
[01:11] <bazhang> smallfoot-, your business here is concluded for now; there is no waiting around.
[01:11] <Pici> I'll speak to hobbsee about this so that we know how to continue
[01:12] <smallfoot-> but i wanted wait for Pici if he can unban me, or if anyone can tell me if its only Hobbsee who is allowed to unban?
[01:12] <smallfoot-> oh okie
[01:12] <bazhang> bye smallfoot-
[01:12] <Pici> Hobbsee: ping re: above ^
[01:12] <smallfoot-> last question, can you make a channel for ubuntu adults where you can cuss? and is there any place for whining?
[01:12] <bazhang> smallfoot-, no.
[01:12] <Pici> I don't forsee that happening any time soon
[01:12] <Flannel> smallfoot-: profanity isn't an indication of maturity
[01:12] <nalioth> smallfoot-: no official Ubuntu channel will offer that much leash
[01:13] <smallfoot-> Flannel, yeah but it helps when im angry
[01:13] <smallfoot-> ok
[01:13] <bazhang> smallfoot-, make your own channel #whine
[01:13] <smallfoot-> bye, so idont get ban from here
[01:13]  * Pici sighs
[01:13]  * bazhang goes to join channel #whine
[01:13] <Pici> I'm sure hes going to do something to get banned again if he does get unbanned.
[01:14] <bazhang> oh for sure.
[01:15] <bazhang> the logic of users sometimes astounds me.
[01:15] <bazhang> or lack of.
[01:17] <bazhang> xjjk<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu family-friendly?
[01:18] <nalioth> bazhang: is he trolling?
[01:18] <bazhang> nalioth, was referring to the hot etc. etc
[01:19] <nalioth> i suspect taht if you dont call attention to it, nobody will pay any to it
[01:19] <Flannel> oh.  He's not a troll, asking for proper help.
[01:21] <bazhang> smallfoot-> They should make an "Ubuntu Whinestorm" website (like Brainstorm) where people whine and the most annoying things get voted up, and the whines with most votes get attention by developers and fixed
[01:21] <bazhang> thought that was what brainstorm was :)
[01:22] <Flannel> for the most part, yep.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> Pici: you can deal with it, if you like
[02:47] <Pici> Hobbsee: I thought so, I wanted to clear it with you first though.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> besides, i'm almost always here
[02:49] <Hobbsee> at least, 'here' on irc.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> just not necessarily here on the computer
[03:34] <bazhang> smallfoot
[03:36] <Hobbsee> darn, missed the meeting
[03:36] <bazhang> same here :(
[03:42] <Flannel> bazhang: The term you were looking for is false dichotomy
[03:43] <bazhang> Flannel, thanks
[04:18] <Flannel> CaptainMorgan: How can we help you?
[04:19] <CaptainMorgan> I need an op or admin to converse with over a subject I'd rather keep quiet please let me know who can I pm
[04:19] <CaptainMorgan> Flannel, may we talk via pm ?
[04:19] <Flannel> CaptainMorgan: Sure
[04:24] <CaptainMorgan> thank you for your time
[04:25] <Flannel> Join spam possibly from cEmx in #ubuntu
[04:25] <Flannel> (was what he was talking about)  anyone have a dispensble method of testing?  If not, I'll fire up another irssi
[04:42] <Flannel> Well, I can't get it to work.  Maybe Im doing it wrong
[04:44] <Flannel> also couldn't get mibbit to work.  is one of the flootbots broken?
[07:28] <PriceChild> Flannel: if its onjoin spam, often a quick /cycle in that channel will trigger a PM.
[07:29] <Flannel> PriceChild: Oh, thanks.  Never knew about /cycle
[07:32] <PriceChild> Of course just because it doesn't trigger their script and send a PM, don't assume that's proof they're not spamming.
[07:33] <Flannel> Right.  I just fired up another irssi instance (after trying mibbit unsucessfully).  Haven't gotten any other complaints though
[08:09] <wols> !ops XOKADO is spamming in #ubuntu
[08:12] <Flannel> taken care of
[09:14] <bazhang> moo_cow, how may we assist you
[09:15] <Flannel> bazhang: ban forward from #ubuntu, not sure moo_cow is actually here.
[09:15] <bazhang> this is a bot then?
[09:15] <Flannel> No, just has a join for #ubuntu, which forwards here
[09:16] <bazhang> odd; there is also a moocow currently in #ubuntu
[09:16] <Flannel> right, different person
[10:11] <dmseg> hello, there is too much join part messages in #ubuntu
[10:13] <dmseg> thankyou all for your help
[10:16] <bazhang> o.0
[10:28] <elkbuntu> bazhang, he's not worth it
[10:29] <bazhang> elkbuntu, certainly not; just an odd message.
[11:27] <bazhang> noob-africa trolling
[13:03] <jpds> Resolved
[13:56] <elkbuntu> the internets were trolling and/or spamming us? who'd have thunk.
[13:58] <jussi01> hehe
[13:59] <jussi01> we all know about the marking facility offered by ubottu?
[13:59] <stdin> I did mention it a while ago now, but I don't think anyone has used it
[14:00] <jussi01> stdin: we need  to publicise it some more id think
[14:00] <stdin> I guess I/you could send an email to the list
[14:00] <jussi01> stdin: I had an idea for another plugin also
[14:02] <stdin> don't leave me in suspense ;)
[14:03] <jpds> stdin: Could you push ubottu's lastest source to LP?
[14:03] <stdin> it should already be there
[14:03] <jussi01> stdin: it would be nice to have 2 things - a @bansearch <mask> and @banlog <nick> <channel> (which returns the last 4 lines said by the banned nick in said channel)
[14:03] <stdin> but I've neglected it recently
[14:04] <jpds> stdin: It's 7 weeks old...
[14:06] <stdin> jpds: I haven't done much with it in the last 7 weeks, but I'll make sure it's up to date today
[14:06] <jpds> stdin: Cheers.
[14:06] <jussi01> stdin: so what do you think - doable? useful even?
[14:07] <stdin> jussi01: I guess it's possible to integrate them into the bantracker plugin, with some work
[14:08] <jussi01> stdin: reason Im thinking of that, is that people hate logging into bantracker - if we can do it here, its some much easier/likely to be done
[14:41] <jpds> !foo
[16:31] <jpds> Jack_Sparrow: Oh crap.
[16:31] <Jack_Sparrow> Got him
[16:32] <jpds> ...but not him again.
[16:32] <jussi01> fun stuff...
[16:34] <Jack_Sparrow> We got rid of him last time when I called his IP and found he worked there
[16:35] <jussi01> Jack_Sparrow: really???
[16:35] <Jack_Sparrow> Yep
[16:35] <Jack_Sparrow> He was using unassigned ip's from his own office
[16:36] <jussi01> well that was kinda stupid...
[16:37] <jpds> why the hell did he get a job there in the first place?!
[16:39] <Jack_Sparrow> I had a talk with him in PM..  Hopefully I got through to him at some level
[16:41] <nalioth> Jack_Sparrow: an email to abuse@ or a call to talk to the boss should be done for this person
[16:42] <Jack_Sparrow> I did talk to the boss last time
[16:42] <nalioth> right now it's not a problem for their business, but what will happen when this idiot irritates a brazilian botnet, and it gets turned on to the business?
[16:42] <Jack_Sparrow> I think he was dismissed
[16:42] <nalioth> boss doesn't care?
[16:42] <nalioth> ah
[16:43] <Jack_Sparrow> He didnt use his old ip this time..
[16:43] <Jack_Sparrow> I let the abuser know he was doing a dis-service to people of true faith.
[16:43] <jussi01> true
[16:44] <jussi01> @now gmt
[16:44] <nalioth> @now etc
[16:44] <jussi01> does gmt == utc?
[16:44] <nalioth> ruh roh
[16:44] <nalioth> @now GMT
[16:44] <Jack_Sparrow> If we track him back he should still be in Calif
[16:44] <nalioth> @now UTC
[16:44] <Jack_Sparrow> If it is the same guy.. which we suspect
[17:23] <stdin> @now gmt
[17:23] <stdin> why gmt was hard coded to fail I'll never know
[17:24] <jussi01> stdin: nice
[17:38]  * jpds adds
[17:41] <stdin> isn't that already there?
[17:42] <jpds> Pervious one said: /msg ubottu !FUSE
[17:43] <stdin> wouldn't we rather they /msg the bot than make a succession of ! commands in a channel?
[17:43] <jpds> So why not /msg ubottu !nfts-3g too?
[17:43] <stdin> it was afaik
[17:44] <jpds> Ah, damn. irssi cut it out.
[17:44] <stdin> my non-up-to-date bot has "To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions - For write access, see /msg ubottu NTFS-3g or /msg ubottu FUSE"
[17:52] <nalioth> is the factoid db corrupt or something?
[17:59] <jpds> @now edt
[18:01] <stdin> nalioth: works for me
[18:09] <nalioth> thanks, stdin
[18:31] <alkjdf> tried to join #ubuntu
[19:17]  * PriceChild waves
[19:21]  * Pici waves
[19:21] <Pici> 41% packet loss = bleh
[20:12] <jpds> !test
[21:53] <tritium> Flannel: you're more patient than I.
[21:54] <Flannel> tritium: As this goes on (and from last night) I'm beginning to question the legitimacy of this topic
[21:54] <tritium> MooCow was in there yesterday as Michael_, and repeatedly offtopic, and completely ignored all !paste notices.
[21:54] <tritium> OK, you remember him as well.
[21:55] <Flannel> Yeah
[21:55] <Flannel> Michael, and then moved to MooCow, with this same infobot/startup thing
[21:55] <tritium> Yep.
[21:58] <Flannel> tritium: I believe with this pastebin, we're going to find out that theres a capitalization issue
[21:58] <tritium> Perhaps.
[21:58] <Flannel> since I think he's retyping everything instead of c/o
[21:58] <tritium> I'm sort of not paying attention.
[21:59] <Flannel> I stopped last night, since I was going to break out the banhammer for idiocracy
[22:00] <tritium> You and me both.
[22:01] <tritium> Good luck, Flannel.


[03:42] <ubptgbot> Diegolimas was added by: Diegolimas
 Hey anyone can help me
 Fwd from Ravana93: I'm running Ubuntu live desktop using bootable usb drive.
 Fwd from Ravana93: And install ubport also from Software centre
 Fwd from Ravana93: But it's not running
 I just lurk here these days but want to check in and say I still appreciate ubports and use it as my daily phone system
 still use the music player w/ bluetooth in my car
 still use the alarms to wake up in the morning
 still use dekko to check email
 thank you @mariogrip and @Flohack and @UniversalSuperBox and ... I guess it wouldn't be reasonal to list everyone's name here
 but thank you
 @Christopher, highly appreciated :)
 @Christopher, Which phone do you have?
 nexus5
 Hi, does ubports-installer work fine with Nexus 5 d820? I only have experience with d821, and I remember there was some kind of problem, or something like that?
 @advocatux, it should work fine, yes
 Fwd from mar_k83: Interessanten Artikel bei eBay ansehen … https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F112902774906
 A user from the German group offers this OPO
 Which is better to base on, 5.1 or 7.1?
 OPOs are so cheap now~
[12:16] <ubptgbot> anak17thn was added by: anak17thn
 @dohbee, OK, Thank you
 @anak17thn, Hi Jin, check out http://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started
 @K31j0, It's better that you ask here @halium, but if your device support it, it's better 7.1
 I have Xperia Z2 which has sources in upstream tree of LOS, but is not officially supported
 5.1.1 had problems with sensors and camera on SailfishOS
 so I suppose that'd be problematic on halium as well
 https://rubencarneiro.github.io/rubencarneiro.io/
 @rubencarneiro, please do not post arbitrary links
 @dohbee, ??????
 you posted a url with absolutely no context and for no apparent reason. this would generally be considered spam
 @dohbee, so spam me
 Ruben, it would have gone over better if you had explained what the link was to and why you thought it was relevant to the discussion.
 Hi, Dalton, so many peo+le post crapy things here abou nothing that has to do with the project, when i post my own page that has some to do with the project i get i yellow card.
 And generally we ask those people who post things which are unrelated to go to @ubports_ot, right>
 [Edit] And generally we ask those people who post things which are unrelated to go to @ubports_ot, right?
 thats new for me, it looks like theres many changes here
 i will remove the message
 is that ok
 Sure?
 ok bye dalton
 @This_link_is_mine, Released :)
 And news on Nexus 5X?
 Porting of Nexus 5X is on stand-by
 @This_link_is_mine, It's better to explain what it's been released than to link to a post from almost the last century
 @advocatux, ..Uh, it wouldn't take more than a moment to read the message. Kernel sources of Redmi 4a have been released.
 @This_link_is_mine, In some Telegram apps is really hard to get back to the last message when you click on a link so old
 @advocatux, Just think about how it looks to people in IRC for someone to randomly reply to their self like that. :)
[16:02] <ubptgbot> ceda_ei was added by: ceda_ei
 hi
 @dohbee, Yeah, that's true
 @dohbee, It looks like this: `<This_link_is_mine> @This_link_is_mine, Released :)`
 😆
 @ceda_ei, Hi Ceda, check out http://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
 exactly
 @advocatux, sure
 I've just realized that my last message probably looks incredibly strange in IRC.
 More than usual, that is
 lol
[16:14] <ubptgbot> Nicholaus005 was added by: Nicholaus005
 Hallow evry 1. I'm NEW in here. Any introduction of the group please!!!
 GREAT JOB FOLKS!  CHECK OUT OUR PROGRESS.   Go and like and review if you haven't already ;)
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/TaKTEZ20.mp4
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/rxFvH6pF.mp4
[16:34] <ubptgbot> <Joa L> @Nicholaus005, Hi, check out http://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
[17:05] <ubptgbot> Geraldo_Cartolano was added by: Geraldo_Cartolano
 @Geraldo_Cartolano, Hi Ghost66, you can read http://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to learn about UBports
 Siamo arrivati
 What's the nature of the celebration when we get to 1,500 members? Just askin'!
 I mean, we're only 58 shy, and it is a holiday weekend... It could happen.
 We should do something
 We need to be prepared!
 zombie cakes
[18:15] <ubptgbot> Dineshpol was added by: Dineshpol
 @Mark, We convert it into an ultragroup
 @Flohack, 🤣👍
 @wayneoutthere, Why is SailfishOS self-hosted? I don't get it
 alternativeto.net can act in funny ways somentimes
 @K31j0, Makes it look to me like they had their own hardware? I dunno? Is iOS “self hosted”?
 @YougoChats, No is has "cloud" backend
 What’s that?
 @YougoChats, Yeah they had their own hardware and oh boy it was sexy as heck
 But Linux community doesn't respect them that much, because Silica is still Closed Source\
 [Edit] But Linux community doesn't respect them that much, because Silica is still Closed Source
 i don't think they made a phone, but there was a tablet, iirc
 They made 2 phones
 And then laid off the entire hardware division
 to minimize costs
 because now they're always in low resources mode
 @Flohack, :D
[21:18] <ubptgbot> Sdv1g was added by: Sdv1g
 Welcome @Dineshpol and @Sdv1g!!! Check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get you started


[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[10:46] <dpm> dholbach, do you know if the changes to the developer site to fix those bugs were deployed? I think something went wrong, as I see the "Report a bug on this page" link all over the place -> e.g. http://developer.ubuntu.com/scopes/guides/scopes-guide/
[10:48] <dpm> we might need mhall119 to come online, as I don't know how he originally implemented the "Report bug" link
[10:55] <dholbach> hum
[10:55] <dholbach> I didn't touch that part of the theme :-/
[10:55] <dpm> dholbach, yeah, I know, I think something must have gone wrong with the deployment
[10:56] <dholbach> sorry, I'm no help here
[10:57] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9365710/ are the changes I made
[10:57] <dholbach> the last changes before that were:
[10:57] <dholbach> 102. By Michael Hall on 2014-05-08
[10:57] <dholbach> Make bug reporting links more visible, but also less intrusive
[10:58] <dholbach> hum... looking at the diff between 101..102, I wonder if this change ever landed before....
[10:58] <dholbach> +       <a class="link-bug link-bug-top" target="_blank" href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+filebug?field.tags=<?php echo $bug_tag ?>&field.comment=<?php echo $bug_comment ?>">Report a bug on this page

[10:59] <dholbach> ^ that's the last line of the diff - it sounds like it adds a bug link to the top as well
[10:59] <dholbach> which is what we're seeing now
[13:04] <mhall119> dholbach: that never landed before, yes, but it was ready
[13:17] <dholbach> ahhh ok
[13:41] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:43] <popey> yo
[13:54] <czajkowski> so timezones, things I can do without :)
[16:50] <dpm> popey, your blog seems to be down? http://popey.com/blog/
[16:50] <popey> huh
[16:50] <popey> bah!
[16:50] <dpm> you're probably just too popular!
[16:51] <popey> haha!
[18:20] <jcastro> hmm
[18:20] <jcastro> I'm not understanding the problem we're trying to solve after reading the CC notes from the meeting
[18:21] <mhall119> jcastro: http://pad.ubuntu.com/LeadershipAndGovernanceDiscussion lists problems and questions that might help (or might not)
[18:22] <jcastro> yea but some of these are no brainers
[18:22] <mhall119> oh? which ones?
[18:22] <jcastro> of course no one goes to summits, we don't mention them on the website at all
[18:22] <jcastro> you either need to follow the right people or be on /r/ubuntu to even know we have summits
[18:23] <mhall119> or Facebook, or G+, or Twitter
[18:23] <popey> or planet
[18:23] <jcastro> right, but we don't say
[18:23] <popey> I agree though.
[18:23] <jcastro> "come to this summit, this is where ubuntu is shaped"
[18:23] <popey> It should be splashed on ubuntu.com
[18:23] <popey> put out a press release
[18:24] <mhall119> we never splashed in-person UDS on ubuntu.com did we?
[18:24] <popey> but that wasn't open to public
[18:24] <mhall119> it technically was
[18:24] <jcastro> sure it was
[18:24] <mhall119> if you could go on your own time and dime
[18:24] <mhall119> I did that for my first one
[18:24] <jcastro> "hey upstreams we'll be in berlin on these days" brought in people
[18:24] <popey> hm, okay.
[18:24] <popey> so did i
[18:25] <popey> but an in person event is way bigger deal than "Some people are having a video chat"
[18:25] <jcastro> right
[18:25] <jcastro> "I'm going to a tech conference" is an event
[18:25] <popey> +1
[18:25] <jcastro> "I need to take some time during work to listen to a G+" is not
[18:25] <popey> s/listen/contribute to/
[18:26] <jcastro> right
[18:26] <jcastro> so, I also think there's a big fundamental piece we're missing here
[18:26] <jcastro> if you look at people who used to contribute to ubuntu
[18:26] <jcastro> but don't anymore
[18:26] <jcastro> it's pretty simple
[18:27] <jcastro> building stuff on top of ubuntu is way more fun, rewarding, and challenging than building ubuntu
[18:27] <popey> thats exactly what sabdfl was getting at
[18:27] <jcastro> nobody cares about the OS, it's there for you to build openstack, juju, or docker on top
[18:27] <jcastro> yeah, I see that
[18:27]  * skellat is just now reading the Community Council meeting log and is reserving any remarks until he finishes
[18:27] <pleia2> though, in my role on the CC, I need to make sure the other, less exciting, teams are being supported
[18:27] <jcastro> I'm just saying, maybe that's not a bad thing?
[18:27] <mhall119> right, I agree with that, but the question still remains "why don't people contribute on top of the OS but *within* the project"
[18:27] <pleia2> we will always still need docs and QA
[18:28] <jcastro> mhall119, because for most intents and purposes, the platform is "finished"
[18:28] <popey> i suspect mhall119 because they don't feel empowered to, or that they don't need to.
[18:28] <pleia2> popey: yeah
[18:28] <mhall119> jcastro: right, I agree with you there, and I personally think that's a good thing, but the "project" isn't finished
[18:28] <jcastro> right
[18:28] <popey> why would an icon designer want to go through the grief of making a debian package
[18:28] <popey> which is in an archive somewhere obscure
[18:28] <popey> when they could have a nice flashy website and a link
[18:28] <mhall119> popey: I think you're right on the "don't need to", but I suspect there's also a large portion of "and it's faster and easier to not work within the project"
[18:29] <popey> +1
[18:29] <popey> look at core apps (sorry), those people aren't hampered anywhere near as much in what they're doing
[18:29] <mhall119> so how do we make it faster and easier to work *within* the project?
[18:29] <pleia2> popey: design is tricky, I'd argue we don't welcome them at all because the design process on the desktop is pretty closed (arguably by necessity, it's hard)
[18:29] <jcastro> right
[18:29] <mhall119> pleia2: so that was the anecdote I didn't get a chance to bring up
[18:30] <popey> pleia2: indeed, and we have history of rejecting contributions after the fact
[18:30] <popey> "Nice icon, no thanks"
[18:30] <pleia2> design-wise the only way I see anyone getting anything it is 1) a wallpaper 2) a flavor
[18:30] <popey> icon themes in the store
[18:30] <mhall119> there is currently several design-oriented projects happening just outside of the Ubuntu project orbit, Numix, Moka and the new Quantum OS
[18:30] <popey> numix is one of the most purchased things!
[18:30] <jcastro> It just seems to me that it should  be ok to say, ubuntu-the-product is boring and generally finnished, but ubuntu the project has tons of things around it that need work
[18:30] <pleia2> popey: interesting
[18:30] <mhall119> and as far as I can tell, all of those designers got started *within* the Ubuntu project
[18:31] <pleia2> popey: and yet, our artwork mailing list is dead, and even I didn't know this existed
[18:31] <mhall119> jcastro: +1, that's my stance
[18:31] <jcastro> so for example when we say "loco events are going down" and we look at this as a bad thing
[18:31] <jcastro> we need to think, seriously who wants to have a party for an operating system in 2014?
[18:31] <mhall119> pleia2: because again, this is happening just outside of the Ubuntu project space
[18:31] <pleia2> mhall119: yeah
[18:32] <mhall119> jcastro: Android people do
[18:32] <jcastro> mhall119, yeah but they have shiny devices every few months to entice things like that
[18:32] <jcastro> not to say we won't
[18:32] <popey> so will we soon ☻
[18:32] <mhall119> true
[18:32] <jcastro> but that brings peoples to events
[18:32] <jcastro> right so contrast "hey loco team let's have a release party"
[18:33] <jcastro> vs. "hey loco team let's have an openstack tech day"
[18:33] <mhall119> jcastro: so put out a differently colored cloud box every 6 months, and we're good
[18:33] <jcastro> replace openstack with docker, juju, hadoop or whatever.
[18:33] <mhall119> jcastro: oh, that's a great idea!
[18:33] <jcastro> right, the os is a means not an end
[18:33] <skellat> Backing up jcastro somewhat: http://erielookingproductions.info/ubuntu/2014/11/60-ruminating-on-black-friday
[18:34] <jcastro> "we have ubuntu and that's all well and good, but at this even we're going to _solve this computing problem_."
[18:34] <jcastro> and that can be "how do I use a new ubuntu phone" or whatever cloud specific bits
[18:34] <skellat> It is mostly we don't have an end-user consumer story
[18:34] <jcastro> it's not "hey guys, it's been 6 months, let's get drunk and celebrate ubuntu"
[18:34] <pleia2> those were the days ;)
[18:35] <jcastro> yeah, and that's fine if people want to do that
[18:35] <jcastro> I'm just saying, it should be totally fine for ubuntu to be the road instead of the destination.
[18:35] <pleia2> our global jam events actually are more successful events
[18:35]  * mhall119 notes jcastro's idea down in the etherpad
[18:35] <popey> coincidentally I sent this to my loco team today https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-December/038109.html
[18:35] <pleia2> we actually have a plan, do stuff
[18:35] <skellat> pleia2: That's not a plan
[18:35] <pleia2> skellat: our global james are very well planned
[18:36] <popey> it has had zero replies so far, but a thread about "how old is your computer" has! :D
[18:36] <pleia2> our == ubuntu california
[18:36] <jcastro> right, because teams are also social structures
[18:36] <pleia2> it takes me like 2 days to prepare for them
[18:36] <skellat> pleia2: In that context, yes
[18:36] <skellat> California gets it right
[18:36] <skellat> Ohio has been a miserable failure at them for years now
[18:36] <pleia2> our release party in october was a total flop though
[18:36] <jcastro> like I would see the loco events going down as just an absence of purpose
[18:37] <jcastro> before it's like, "have two parties a year"
[18:37] <pleia2> speaker canceled, didn't even send slides so someone else could pick it up, not much changed with 14.10 anyway
[18:37] <pleia2> then hardly anyone showed up
[18:37] <jcastro> if you don't tell people what to do, it always comes down to "well let's just meet and drink beer"
[18:37] <jcastro> the _real question_ should be something like
[18:38] <pleia2> and at least here, there are about 24323 events per night where you can chat with tech people and get free beer
[18:38] <jcastro> "ok, ubuntu team X, how many of you have done say, a local openstack day?"
[18:38] <jcastro> or "docker day"
[18:38] <jcastro> or "how to deploy things onto digital ocean" or something
[18:38] <jcastro> (my examples are all cloud examples, but you get the idea)
[18:38] <skellat> jcastro: I've had folks say no to infrastructure stuff.  They like it in Ohio but they don't want to be social about it.
[18:38] <jcastro> and that's _fine_
[18:38] <skellat> They even *use it* too
[18:38]  * mhall119 volunteers jcastro to fly out to Florida to give a juju talk to the Florida team
[18:39] <pleia2> skellat: well, find something that appeals to your community then, in a social way?
[18:39] <jcastro> but I refuse  to believe no one in ohio is interested in docker, or mesos, or something
[18:39] <skellat> pleia2: That's what I have been bouncing off my three deputies to think about
[18:39] <pleia2> skellat: I've been thinking of doing a member survey for california
[18:40] <pleia2> interests, what would make them come to an event
[18:40] <mhall119> speaking of juju, I need to get back to work stuff, highlight me if you need me
[18:40] <skellat> mhall119: As I've said before...if somebody can find me a couch to sleep on and can put up transportation I am willing to go visit a LoCo to speak since I am currently the only anglophone member of LoCo Council let alone the only one in North America
[18:40] <pleia2> yeah, work
[18:41] <popey> \o/ EoD
[18:41] <mhall119> go away popey
[18:41] <skellat> Work?  I'm stuck on furlough until $AGENCY says otherwise.  I hope to return to active paid status some day.
[18:41] <popey> also \o/ EoW :D
[18:41] <mhall119> go away popey
[18:41] <pleia2> popey: now you're just showing off :)
[18:41] <pleia2> skellat: sorry :\
[18:42] <popey> had too much holiday left at the end of the year
[18:42]  * skellat sets launch coordinates to range on popey
[18:42] <skellat> :-)
[18:42] <mhall119> send in the drones!
[18:42] <popey> Tomorrow I am going to maybe start a game for Ubuntu phone :D
[18:42] <mhall119> sweet!
[18:42] <jcastro> popey, make pocket trains for the phone please
[18:42] <popey> link?
[18:43] <popey> to play store or whatever
[18:43] <jcastro> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nimblebit.pockettrains&hl=en
[18:43] <jcastro> simple concept
[18:43] <popey> oh
[18:43] <popey> i know nimblebit
[18:43] <popey> I have pocket planes and tiny tower
[18:43] <popey> irritatingly addictive
[18:43] <jcastro> me too, I've sent them too much money
[18:44] <jcastro> and one time, marcoceppi missed his plane because of them
[18:44] <jcastro> though he blames me
[18:44] <pleia2> haha
[18:44] <popey> hah
[18:44] <marcoceppi> it is your fault
[18:44] <jcastro> we had an idea of not making it a total ripoff
[18:44] <marcoceppi> 3 months and non stop "marco install pocket trains!!!"
[18:44] <jcastro> call it "pocket shuttles" in space
[18:44] <popey> ☻
[18:45] <marcoceppi> hahaha yesss!
[18:45] <marcoceppi> I remember talking about this
[18:45] <marcoceppi> pocket trains in space
[18:45] <jcastro> anyway so my general gist, is that it should be totally fine for people to morph their group into something that might not be directly related to the core OS.
[18:46] <jcastro> If that's like 2 motivated people showing up to an docker meetup to talk about how to best build an ubuntu docker image, then that should "count"
[18:47] <skellat> jcastro: Could you write that up and e-mail it to what is left of the LoCo Council for consideration?  That falls within our bailiwick<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:47] <jcastro> sure but after work
[18:48] <jcastro> I wasn't expecting to go all manifesto and now I'm behind on some time-sensitive things
[18:48] <jcastro> like my scale submission,lol.
[18:48] <pleia2> is it really a loco-council thing? I'm thinking loco-contacts discussion
[18:48] <popey> didnt we shut that list down?
[18:48] <popey> ㋛
[18:49] <jcastro> are you thinking of sounder?
[18:49] <jcastro> that was shut down
[18:49] <jcastro> by some guy
[18:49] <popey> yeah, that guy
[18:49] <popey> he got his silver dollar though!
[18:49] <popey> ooh, i could make a game called Sounder
[18:50] <popey> where you just mash buttons to complain about ubuntu
[18:51] <skellat> pleia2: Council first.  We can put at least something together with additional viewpoints/discussion that then gets thrown out there for community consultation.
[18:51] <mhall119> popey: what happened to Jono Head?
[18:51] <popey> haha
[18:51] <jono> mhall119, still on my neck
[18:51] <jono> hang on
[18:51] <jono> yep, still there
[18:51] <mhall119> popey: make a flappy jono game
[18:51] <jono> just checked :-)
[18:51] <jono> LOL
[18:52] <skellat> pleia2: We need to be kinder/gentler after the whole Iberian saga so us doing a consultation and collecting responses would be a good thing.
[18:53] <pleia2> skellat: well, I was thinking the opposite, more needs to happen in public initially with the entire community
[18:53] <pleia2> LC should only really step in when needed, I don't see that all ideas need to pass through the LC first
[18:53] <skellat> Perhaps
[18:54] <skellat> However, we still need to check the congruence of loco-contacts subscriptions and the actual points of contact
[18:54] <skellat> I'm thinking they're pretty diverged by now
[18:54] <pleia2> part of the Iberian saga was that it was all discussed privately, so when decisions came it felt like it came out of nowhere and there was a lot of explaining that we'd been working on things for months
[18:54] <skellat> I know
[18:54] <pleia2> loco-contacts is actually just folks intereted in locos, it should reall just be ubuntu-locos :)
[18:54] <skellat> LC has blog tools, human capital to spend on contacting points of contact individually, etc.
[18:54]  * popey looks up congruence
[18:56] <skellat> It would be a bunch of 1 to 1 contacts but we could conceivably reach out to all the points of contact who are listed.  We would hit more of them than we would using loco-contacts.
[18:56] <skellat> popey: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/congruence
[18:56] <popey> well yes, I can do that.
[18:57] <skellat> :-)
[19:00] <skellat> pleia2: That's actually a programming task that I know needs to be done but I don't have the skill set to accomplish.  It would involve pulling the subscribers roster from loco-contacts, filtering out the ones who have NOMAIL set, pulling the contact addresses of owners of teams in the pad.lv/~locoteams set, and then comparing the two.
[19:00] <pleia2> skellat: what's the goal? I think it's great that anyone who is interested subscribes
[19:01] <skellat> pleia2: We don't have a reliable means currently of reaching all 179 LoCo points of contact
[19:02] <pleia2> ah, gotcha
[19:02] <pleia2> yeah, I don't know that you ever will
[19:02] <pleia2> even if they are subscribed, some people don't even bother with email these days
[19:02] <jcastro> ugh, and here's another one
[19:02] <jcastro> (sorry to be ranting)
[19:03] <jcastro> I go "ok I would like to hang out with ubuntu users"
[19:03] <jcastro> I go on meetup.com and do a search, I see, ubuntu vancouver and ubuntu perth.
[19:03] <jcastro> the entire rest of the project is missing
[19:03] <skellat> Yep
[19:03] <jcastro> 2014, and here we are with mailman
[19:03] <jcastro> thumbs up!
[19:03] <skellat> We have a workitem this cycle on that
[19:04] <jcastro> * note, sarcastic thumbs
[19:04] <skellat> I know
[19:04] <jcastro> http://www.meetup.com/find/?allMeetups=false&keywords=docker&radius=Infinity&userFreeform=Ypsilanti%2C+MI&mcId=c48197&mcName=Ypsilanti%2C+MI&sort=default
[19:04] <jcastro> blam, look at that, EVERYWHERE.
[19:04] <pleia2> meetup costs and is closed source
[19:05] <jcastro> so what
[19:05] <skellat> The question LC has to look at it is use of platforms like meetup.com, global market penetration, is it appropriate for all teams to use in all places, and can there be a dissipation of effort trying to have a presence on all social media platforms.
[19:05] <jcastro> those people found a way to use it
[19:05] <jcastro> and guess what, over 80% of those people doing those docker meetups will be using ..... ubuntu
[19:05] <jcastro> do the same search for openstack, etc. same thing
[19:06] <pleia2> there are companies who will cover meetup costs for open source groups, and it has come up recently in california that we should use one, but I still don't have to like using a proprietary tool :P
[19:06] <pleia2> and it's historically why we haven't
[19:06] <jcastro> I think that's organizationally short sighted
[19:07] <jcastro> openstack people love OSS too and there's page after page of meetups
[19:07] <skellat> And it comes back to LC hammering out "best practices" as the last 10 verification applications have shown community teams across the planet using a wide variety of tools instead of meetup.com alone
[19:07] <skellat> Some, believe it or not, actually even use LoCo Team Portal!
[19:07] <pleia2> jcastro: not sure I agree with that last statement ;)
[19:07] <jcastro> pleia2, ok let me put it another way
[19:08] <pleia2> some openstack people love OSS, but I work with plenty of people with proprietary backgrounds who are new to all of this and feel OSS is a good tool in this circumstance
[19:08] <jcastro> if 2008 me were to go forward in time to 2014 jorge and say "you should check out ubuntu and participate, join this mailing list" I would literally punch my older self in the face.
[19:09] <pleia2> so using meetup is natural for them, because they're just tech people with budgets (companies often sponsor the meetup groups, including fees)
[19:09] <pleia2> Ubuntu is a traditionally a very different place, we built our whole loco team portal
[19:09] <jcastro> other oss projects seem to be finding a way to do it
[19:09] <pleia2> I'm not saying it's the right way, just explaining why
[19:09] <jcastro> oh I understand why
[19:09] <jcastro> I'm just saying we need to think bigger
[19:10] <pleia2> probably
[19:10] <jcastro> http://fsf.meetup.com/
[19:10] <jcastro> wow, this gets even more embarrassing for us!
[19:11] <jcastro> actually, not so bad: http://ubuntu.meetup.com/
[19:11] <jcastro> only one loco though
[19:12] <jcastro> pleia2, aha! and the top one is actually a Docker group!
[19:12] <pleia2> well, none, since vancouver is not a loco :P
[19:13] <pleia2> indeed, and mostly generic linux groups
[19:13] <jcastro> I think that's ok
[19:13] <pleia2> yep
[19:14] <jcastro> like, snark aside, well, not aside
[19:14] <jcastro> if someone were to say "we're like a loco but we don't make you use a mailing list and send in approval forms"
[19:14] <jcastro> I'd be like, ok, sounds great!
[19:14] <pleia2> we already do that
[19:14] <jcastro> I get to drink the same beer twice a year!
[19:14] <pleia2> there are just some wires crossed about verification
[19:15] <pleia2> for some reason teams believe it's required to be a real loco
[19:15] <jcastro> in hindsight verification sounded like a good idea at the time
[19:15] <pleia2> but really it's just a community process so companies can assign goodies to teams who are known (canonical, pearson)
[19:15] <jcastro> right
[19:16] <jcastro> we should have named it "don't waste the swag form" and everything would have been fine
[19:16] <jcastro> oh well, hindsight 20/20
[19:16] <pleia2> and I wish it was less about "approval forms" and more about "share your stories so you can inspire others"
[19:16] <pleia2> it's really hard to find loco event news, I try
[19:17] <skellat> Again: http://erielookingproductions.info/ubuntu/2014/11/57-verifying-verification
[19:17] <skellat> If I need to start engraving that and doing ballistic drops so people read it, so be it
[19:18] <skellat> LC really looks at verification as time to ask what's going on, do you need help, where can we assist
[19:18] <jcastro> that's my point
[19:18] <pleia2> yeah, that's helpful stuff too
[19:18] <jcastro> no one's going to read that
[19:18] <jcastro> that's not like your fault or anything, I'm just saying people don't read or care about that sort of thing
[19:18] <skellat> I again refer to my BOFH-lite proposition above
[19:19] <jcastro> people go "oh it's the weekend and I don't have stuff to do, let me see what's going on this weekend tech-wise around me"
[19:19] <jcastro> and then they go
[19:20] <skellat> Which is a difference in focus than how some regard community teams, I think
[19:20] <skellat> One complaint we hear is that showmanship does not come naturally to many community team leaders
[19:20] <pleia2> jcastro: well, there's also a difference between organizers and attendees
[19:21] <pleia2> but most organizers don't want to do team reports either
[19:21] <jcastro> you don't necessarily have to be a showman
[19:21] <jcastro> pleia2, that's because we make team reports sound like a burden
[19:21] <jcastro> instead of "man we did awesome stuff today I can't wait to talk about it to everyone"
[19:21] <jcastro> it's like "ugh, I have to do a team report, lame."
[19:22] <jcastro> even the name makes me want to not do one
[19:22] <pleia2> I like them :D
[19:22] <pleia2> but I also like wikis and email, so
[19:23] <jcastro> :)
[19:23] <jcastro> ok one more example and then I'm done
[19:23] <jcastro> so this happened to me at re:invent
[19:23] <jcastro> I was walking around and then the netflix devops guys were there
[19:23] <jcastro> and they gave me cool team swag, and talked about how much they loved ubuntu
[19:23] <jcastro> and how awesome it was working out for them
[19:23] <jcastro> and all the usual bits
[19:24] <jcastro> so I'm like awesome, we say Netflix uses ubuntu and that's fine, but it's way cooler when they say it
[19:24] <jcastro> so I'm like hey how can we make it better, what do you guys need from  us?
[19:24] <jcastro> and so on.
[19:24] <jcastro> nothing, zero, zilch.
[19:24] <jcastro> they love ubuntu because it literally doesn't bother them
[19:24] <jcastro> it's so boring that they just don't have to care as much
[19:25] <jcastro> and this is the biggest challenge because it's the same thing with keeping people excited about the core OS.
[19:25] <jcastro> you can't really when the thing is just an invisible piece of furniture
[19:26] <skellat> And we don't have much consumer-facing anything that you can walk into a Wal-Mart or Best Buy to purchase at the moment either which keeps us even more invisible
[19:26] <jcastro> it wasn't until later when I was sitting with moser and was all depressed about it when he was like "the majority of internet traffic in north america is going through ubuntu, I think you're overreacting."
[19:26] <jcastro> and he kind of has a point
[19:28] <jcastro> also, this is a cloud guy's perception
[19:28] <jcastro> so take that with a grain of salt
[19:28] <skellat> jcastro: At the community team level, we're still looking at a retail/consumer perspective.  We're just not there **yet**.  Cloud and the like, we're there.  We have to fix that.
[19:29] <jcastro> sure, I get that
[19:29] <jcastro> "get people pumped up about this phone that no one can buy yet" is kind of hard
[19:29] <skellat> We can get the back-end folks for cloud all we want
[19:29] <skellat> If anything, you say we've got that market
[19:29] <skellat> It is the retail/consumer side we don't have
[19:30] <skellat> System76 gets us part of the way there but they're a single OEM partner
[19:30] <skellat> Dell is a partner
[19:30] <skellat> And you still can't walk into a store and buy something that runs Unity
[19:31] <skellat> Android, WP8, Windows 8, MacOS X...sure.  Unity, nope.
[19:32] <skellat> We have gaps to bridge
[19:33] <skellat> By the way, jcastro, what is your SCALE proposal topic?
[19:33] <jcastro> I dunno, some juju thing with marcoceppi
[19:33] <jcastro> don't have any specifics yet
[19:33] <skellat> Okay
[19:34] <jcastro> probably elasticsearch and then some accumulo thing with hadoop
[19:34] <skellat> I have to get back to writing Sunday's guest sermon as I'll be preaching from 2 Peter 3.  Sounds like you'll have some cool stuff on display, though.
[19:34] <jcastro> hopefully!
[19:40] <jose> jcastro: we having a charm school again?
[19:40] <jcastro> next week I think?
[19:40] <jcastro> let me check
[19:40] <jose> no, I mean at scale
[19:40] <jose> that's this week
[19:40] <jcastro> oh, we're not sponsoring so I don't think we'll get a full half-day like we did before
[19:41] <jcastro> but yeah, we should
[19:41] <jcastro> jose, did you want to submit one?
[19:41] <jose> probably, I'm not sure if I'm going
[19:41] <jose> I need to ask my parents (which is most likely a yes) and then ask the community team for CDA funding
[19:44] <jose> jcastro: at what time is our charm school tomorrow?
[19:44] <jcastro> 3pm EST
[19:44] <jcastro> always at 3
[19:45] <jose> ack
[20:21] <belkinsa> pleia2, I found this amusing and I  think you will too: http://englishrussia.com/2010/07/30/sysadmin-day-in-russia/
[20:23] <pleia2> belkinsa: haha, that's wonderful
[20:23] <pleia2> I want a motherboard cake
[20:29] <popey> mmm cake
[21:01] <czajkowski> pleia2: plan for later again? I closed the window :(
[21:02] <pleia2> czajkowski: I'll msg :)
[21:10] <mhall119> belkinsa: is the UW team still developing Harvest?
[21:11] <belkinsa> mhall119, we are, but we are at the testing the bug stage.
[21:11] <mhall119> ok, are you open to feature ideas?
[21:11] <belkinsa> We are, but I think doing them in bug form is the best idea.
[21:12] <mhall119> the meeting earlier got me thinking that we could use a good way to answer "what can I contribute to", and having a harvest page that serves up one random bug each page load might do that
[21:12] <belkinsa> I like that idea.
[21:17] <mhall119> belkinsa: filed a bug for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/harvest/+bug/1399441
[21:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1399441 in harvest "Provide a "Random Bug" page" [Undecided,New]
[21:18] <belkinsa> Thank you.
[21:29] <mhall119> jcastro: FWIW, there's no reason LoCo teams can't be using meetup.com already
[21:29] <mhall119> LTP's events system was build because they weren't
[21:59] <jcastro> mhall119, yeah but they're not, but other projects are
[21:59] <jcastro> to great success it seems
[22:05] <czajkowski> jcastro: I'm not sure about that
[22:05] <czajkowski> meet up is also rather costly
[22:06] <czajkowski> and while many do it also can inhibit use due to cost
[22:06] <czajkowski> under a chapter ac it's like $10 a month per group
[22:06] <czajkowski> over 100 groups and a $10 per month mounts up
[22:08] <jcastro> fair enough
[22:09] <pleia2> it also gets tricky when an owner goes MIA, right now we work with launchpad and canonical sysadmins, we'd instead have to work with meetup to regain control of groups
[22:09] <pleia2> if they don't pay after a year it does get released, but :\
[22:09] <czajkowski> indeed
[22:10] <pleia2> tbh, california will probably end up getting a meetup group because that's what people use here, but it's not without downsides
[22:11] <pleia2> and I still won't like it :)
[22:11] <pleia2> ce la vie
[22:11] <pleia2> c'est too
[22:11] <jcastro> would you like it if they added moinmoin to meetup?
[22:11]  * jcastro snickers
[22:12] <jono> czajkowski, what is $10/month per group?
[22:12] <czajkowski> jono: meetup.com
[22:12]  * jono is looking for user group management software
[22:12] <jono> czajkowski, ahhh
[22:12] <jono> they don't have a self hosted service do they?
[22:12] <czajkowski> that's under one centralised ac also
[22:13] <czajkowski> and not all accounts can start off that way weither
[22:13] <czajkowski> other wise it's 3 acs per one email address
[22:13] <czajkowski> jono: nope
[22:13] <jono> I figured
[22:13] <jono> thanks czajkowski  :-)
[22:14] <czajkowski> np
[22:14] <czajkowski> :)
[22:14] <czajkowski> it's the best of a bad bunch
[22:14] <czajkowski> I think there is a way to do aPi intergratio so you can put that on your site and not take people off your site onto meet up
[22:14] <czajkowski> which is my biggest issue
[22:14] <czajkowski> but then again we use it here so I'm going to work magic voodoo to make it work for us
[22:14] <jono> makes sense
[22:14] <pleia2> openstack built http://groups.openstack.org/contribute
[22:15] <pleia2> but that's pretty much just a way of organizing all the meetups
[22:15] <jono> the challenge I have is that we don't much of an IT team at XPRIZE
[22:15] <pleia2> because it was a huge mess
[22:15] <jono> so I need to go for SAAS solutions where possible :-)
[22:15] <jono> pleia2, ahhhh cool
[22:15] <jono> I am demoing some other tool socious or something on Mon
[22:15] <jono> and then there is campsite.org
[22:15] <jono> who a friend of mine built
[22:16] <jcastro> huh, eventbrite seems to have a free tier
[22:17] <jcastro> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/ubuntufest-2015-tickets-13014018279?aff=es2&rank=1
[22:17] <czajkowski> jcastro: eventbrite is free as long as you dont charge
[22:17] <czajkowski> as far as I understood it
[22:17] <jcastro> no idea what that means
[22:17] <czajkowski> Free ticket/event means no charge
[22:17] <czajkowski> you charge $5 you start to pay per ticket
[22:17] <pleia2> yeah, we used that for olpc-sf
[22:17] <jcastro> "ALL people who want to plug in to serve the BLOOMING of the Ubuntu Liberation Movement~ Come Together and Connect with your Tribe over Memorial Day weekend "
[22:18] <pleia2> I think that's the other Ubuntu :)
[22:18] <jcastro> it appaears to be a political party?
[22:19] <jono> that Ubuntu is a fork of Debian without systemd, but with Ubuntu packages, then forked into Mint, and then into another Ubuntu with all the Mint and systemd packages removed
[22:19] <jcastro> but with the simplicity and speed of Arch!
[22:20] <pleia2> x_x
[22:20] <jcastro> their platform is awesome: https://www.facebook.com/UbuntuPartyUSA/info?tab=page_info
[22:20] <jcastro> we should go to that
[22:20] <jono> :-)
[22:20] <czajkowski> pleia2: finally some sunshine over here!!!
[22:20] <pleia2> czajkowski: I told mjoseph to make sure it wasn't raining when I came down
[22:21] <jcastro> campsite looks pretty slick
[22:21] <jono> yeah, campsite is cool
[22:21] <jcastro> is this a dave project?
[22:21] <jono> and the guy who runs it is a neat guy
[22:21] <jcastro> forget the last name
[22:21] <jono> Dave Nielsen
[22:21] <jono> yup
[22:21] <pleia2> ah yeah, he told me about this
[22:21] <jcastro> the cloudcamps, CLS mentions and the powered by hp cloud gave it away
[22:21] <jono> :-)
[22:30] <czajkowski> pleia2: was in downtown mountain view, looks a lot nicer than the area of mountain view I'm in
[22:30] <pleia2> czajkowski: yeah, it's very cute :)
[22:30] <czajkowski> pleia2: hopefuly weather in january is nicer, back again for a week
[22:30] <pleia2> the rest of mountain view is kind of soulless
[22:31] <czajkowski> and possibly from there to NYC and Boston, it's gonna be cold!
[22:31] <pleia2> oh, places with weather :)
[22:31] <pleia2> I'm going to St Louis at the end of the month, cold there too
[22:32] <czajkowski> I had weather this week I saw the palce not able to handle rain
[22:32] <czajkowski> was amusing watcing the tv in the morning describing 6" of rain as a storm :)
[22:33] <pleia2> this rain was really bad, our garage flooded
[22:33] <pleia2> I don't think I've ever seen so much here
[22:34] <pleia2> compared to anywhere else in the country it is very funny though
[22:34] <pleia2> traffic backs up, accidents
[22:34] <pleia2> it's not just that people here don't know how to drive in the rain (they don't), but the water has no where to go because we don't have much drainage
[22:40] <popey> Best. Community. Ever!
[22:40] <belkinsa> If we didn't have issues.
[22:40] <belkinsa> ;)
[22:40] <jcastro> everyone has issues!
[22:40] <czajkowski> pleia2: exactly road flooded around here as no where for the water to go
[22:46] <czajkowski> any because everyone needs a giggle at times. https://www.facebook.com/739967579348639/photos/pcb.893714183973977/893714017307327/?type=1&theater
[22:46] <pleia2> does he not eat chickens?
[22:53] <belkinsa> popey, can I include your name in this article: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d2yWQk85Y4F0-zHZGNUre4eSMKk9Q6KyC5hYNsmupCc/edit ?
[22:58] <czajkowski> pleia2: nope
[22:58] <czajkowski> he tries to get up and close and if he does he gets a peck on the paw
[22:58] <czajkowski> and is fine
[22:58] <czajkowski> but he's not the smartest :)
[22:59] <pleia2> hehe
[23:00] <popey> belkinsa: sure
[23:04] <belkinsa> Thanks.
[23:15] <popey> which reminds me, i need to send a mail tomorrow to the u-w list
[23:16] <belkinsa> I was thinking about asking you about your action item.
[23:16] <popey> its on the list for tomorrow
[23:16] <belkinsa> \o/