[01:10] <doctormo> pleia2: what's that website you use to choose dates and time for meetings?
[01:10] <pleia2> doodle.com
[01:12] <doctormo> pleia2: I can't figure out how to use the website
[01:13] <pleia2> hang on, on a call
[01:14] <doctormo> sos
[02:10] <cprofitt> pleia2:
[02:13] <cprofitt> doctormo: you there?
[02:17]  * pleia2 on marathon conference call
[02:19] <cprofitt> pleia2: -- when off just hollar
[02:22] <pleia2> will do :)
[02:28] <doctormo> cprofitt: yes
[02:28] <cprofitt> hey doctormo I am looking for a suggestion
[02:28] <cprofitt> which course, of yours, would transfer well to Moodle?
[02:29] <doctormo> cprofitt: The command line basics or the computer hardware would go well.
[02:29] <cprofitt> do you have links so I can check them out?
[02:33] <doctormo> Ubuntu Wiki
[02:33] <doctormo> Search:
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Logged in as doctormo
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Log Out
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Ubuntu
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Community
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Support
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Partners
[02:33] <doctormo>     * Wiki
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Planet
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Ubuntu Team Wiki
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Lernid/Session Leaders
[02:34] <doctormo>     * humphreybc
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Marketing
[02:34] <cprofitt> ?
[02:34] <doctormo>     * SystemAdminTopics
[02:34] <doctormo>     * User Preferences
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Find Page
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Edit
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Comments
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Info
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Subscribe
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Add Link
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Attachments
[02:34] <doctormo>     *
[02:34] <doctormo>     * Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[02:34] <doctormo> systems-admin.png
[02:34] <doctormo> damn sorry
[02:34] <doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[02:34] <doctormo> I tried to paste a link and instead it pasted the entire header of the page
[02:35] <cprofitt> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ubuntu-system-admin-class-command-line-basics/
[02:35] <cprofitt> is that one?
[02:35] <doctormo> yep
[02:35] <doctormo> ans the "local computer" one
[02:36] <pleia2> I am putting the local computer one into bzr
[02:36] <pleia2> then I think moodle
[02:36] <cprofitt> ok... I will take a look at the command line then
[02:36] <doctormo> pleia2: great
[02:37] <pleia2> ran the script to create the structure in bzr last night, started filling in the easy bits to my branch
[02:58] <doctormo> pleia2: That's fantastic, let me know how you get on.
[03:12] <pleia2> ok, finally off the phone!
[03:39] <pleia2> I'm writing a CourseAssignment page to describe how people select courses for assignment
[03:55] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/CourseAssignment
[03:55] <pleia2> now hopefully I won't need to explain it again :)
[13:31] <doctormo> pleia2: Your a command line goddess right? I need to somehow check if a PROJECTS= exists in /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults and then add a line to it if it doesn't.
[13:32] <pleia2> I'd just use grep
[13:32] <pleia2> then perl
[13:32] <doctormo> pleia2: Doesn't it require the use of a bash if statement?
[13:32] <pleia2> yeah
[13:32] <cprofitt> doc -- what development environment do you use?
[13:33] <doctormo> I'll be honest, I'm not very good with bash if statements
[13:33] <doctormo> cprofitt: gnome-terminal + vim
[13:33] <pleia2> doctormo: I'm on the phone with a client, give me 10min and I'll have something for you :)
[13:33] <cprofitt> so how do you make your GUI elements?
[13:43] <cprofitt> doctormo: how do you make your GUI elements?
[13:43] <pleia2> doctormo:
[13:43] <pleia2> if ! grep -q '^PROJECTS=' /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults; then echo 'PROJECTS=blahblah' >> /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults
[13:43] <pleia2> fi
[13:44] <pleia2> I'd do a line break between "then" and "echo"
[13:44] <pleia2> silly irssi paste
[13:44] <pleia2> so - if a line starting with "PROJECTS=" doesn't exist, it appends a "PROJECTS=blahblah" line to the end of the file
[13:49] <doctormo> Wow it's laundry mountin time today.
[13:49] <doctormo> Thanks pleia2!
[13:49] <pleia2> sure thing
[13:49] <doctormo> cprofitt: Oh I use glade-3 with gtkBuilder
[13:50] <cprofitt> thanks... I finally trying to get started with programming
[13:50] <cprofitt> but figuring out which tools I want to use has been frustrating
[13:51] <cprofitt> it is not as 'easy' as using Visual Studio ... though I suspect when I finally get everything set I will be more rewarded (personal)
[13:52] <doctormo> cprofitt: I've used Vidual Studio, so I can give you a comparison, I've also used Eclipse.
[13:52] <cprofitt> a comparison would be great.
[13:52] <cprofitt> Eclipse seemed FUBAR in Ubuntu
[13:52] <cprofitt> unless I wanted to do Java
[13:54] <doctormo> Eclipse has no maintainer in Ubuntu, so yes, fairly craptastic, it's also slow, buggy and not designed for python, perl or C
[13:54] <doctormo> Although I did manage to get the python and bzr plugins working
[13:54] <doctormo> Visual Studio is a fairly good all contained system, but it seemed to block or naturally make invisible external functionality.
[13:55] <doctormo> It also sets a fairly strict path that leads to windows only results, so people develing in VS end up with windows only applications.
[13:55] <doctormo> Even if they program in C or iron python.
[13:56] <doctormo> What you might be interested in, is Quickly, it's about getting all the tools together to start a project the right way and then lets you develop it how ever you want.
[13:56] <doctormo> Best practices, but not forcing you into things.
[14:06] <cprofitt> Yeah... that would help
[14:06] <cprofitt> I am planning to learn Python, Lisp (J) and C
[14:06] <cprofitt> so getting up to speed on how to create a GUI and then connect code to it would be a big help
[14:06] <cprofitt> MS Visual Studio obsfucates that process
[14:08] <mhall119|work> Quickly is definitely something to look into then
[17:02] <paultag> pleia2, poke :)
[17:02] <paultag> pleia2, did you hear about nigel ?
[17:02] <pleia2> paultag: morning
[17:03] <doctormo> paultag: poky
[17:03] <paultag> 's idea*
[17:03] <paultag> pleia2, Morning!
[17:03] <paultag> Hey there doctormo
[17:03] <pleia2> paultag: classroom stuff?
[17:03] <doctormo> paultag: I didn't, tell me
[17:03] <paultag> pleia2, aye, Python + -dev
[17:03] <paultag> doctormo, nigel wanted to start a python series from the dev team
[17:03] <pleia2> paultag: yeah it's great, feel free to pick any time, as I told nigel this morning the only thing we have on the schdeule at the moment is the motu things on thursdays https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
[17:03] <paultag> and he asked me to talk with you pleia2 about scheduling it
[17:04] <paultag> pleia2, Cool. I'll get some members to prepare, then we can work a few in
[17:04] <pleia2> great :)
[17:04] <IdleOne> is ubuntu-desktop still recommended to be installed when upgrading to newer version of Ubuntu? I remember it used to cause issues if not installed
[17:04] <paultag> doctormo, I watched your video demo, I mentioned it the other day. Looks rad
[17:08] <doctormo> paultag: It's good all the positive responses it's gotten, I'm glad people can see it being useful outside of this project.
[17:09] <paultag> doctormo, aye
[17:13] <pleia2> paultag: also, you're welcome to join us over in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage where we're doing all the -classroom planning
[17:14] <pleia2> since, you know, you're not in enough channels already
[17:17] <paultag> hahaha
[17:17] <paultag> I've been maxing out lately
[17:18] <cprofitt> woot, RMS will be coming to Rochester
[17:19] <doctormo> cprofitt: What for?
[17:21] <paultag> cprofitt, my buddy is there
[17:21] <paultag> doctormo, RIT
[17:21] <paultag> he is talking to the school
[17:21] <doctormo> cool
[17:21] <paultag> I'm jealous
[17:21] <cprofitt> Yes... he will be at RIT
[17:22] <cprofitt> the only real issue is that it will be during the day
[17:23] <cprofitt> so... parking will be an issue and I have to take the day off
[17:23] <cprofitt> I got asked about speaking at FOSSVT too...
[17:23] <cprofitt> I need to get the details, but I may do that.
[18:05] <jcastro> can someone op maco in #classroom? She's taking over seele's class
[18:17] <paultag> jcastro, what do you need?
[18:17] <paultag> jcastro, the flags for ubuntu/member/* are +o, you should be able to op
[18:17] <jcastro> oh
[18:17] <paultag> jcastro, :)
[18:17] <paultag> jcastro, well done :)
[18:17] <jcastro> whoo!
[18:18] <jcastro> I did it!
[18:18] <paultag> jcastro, w00t! :) 'grats :)
[18:37] <cprofitt> he jcastro
[18:40] <jcastro> howdy cprofitt
[18:45] <cprofitt> jcastro: has anyone from #fosscon contacted you yet?
[18:45] <jcastro> yeah I have the mail sitting in my inbox
[18:45] <cprofitt> Nice.
[18:45]  * jcastro will reply today
[18:45] <cprofitt> I got invited to speak at FOSSVT...
[18:45] <jcastro> I am on the cusp of inbox zero!
[18:46] <cprofitt> I have to look in to the specifics... but I am going to try to make it
[18:46] <cprofitt> woah... inbox 0
[18:46] <cprofitt> I have not seen that myself since day 0 of email
[18:46] <cprofitt> jcastro: are you familiar with FOSSVT?
[18:46] <jcastro> nope
[18:48] <jcastro> I've been to vermont to talk about oss before with matt oquist and another guy
[18:48] <jcastro> they run an .edu style oss conference up there
[18:48] <cprofitt> http://www.ncose.org/node/47
[18:48] <doctormo> jcastro: Interesting, I go up there quite often
[18:48] <jcastro> oh dude, FOSSED
[18:48] <cprofitt> its part of NCOSE
[18:48] <jcastro> I've been to that one
[18:48] <cprofitt> yeh... FOSSED is another one
[18:48] <cprofitt> I am going to try to go to that one
[18:49] <cprofitt> FOSSVT is another one of theirs.
[18:49] <cprofitt> FOSSED is in Main - so it is a bit futher away
[18:49] <doctormo> cprofitt: Is it worth going to FOSSVT?
[18:49] <cprofitt> doctormo: not sure... not seen much on it...
[18:50] <cprofitt> the Excutive director of NCOSE asked if I was interested in presenting
[18:50] <cprofitt> Bryant Patten
[18:50] <cprofitt> He spoke at OSSCON this past year
[18:51] <cprofitt> and Open Edge
[18:51] <cprofitt> Open Edge is in Australia
[18:52] <cprofitt> I am trying to decide if I want to keep my domain name charlesprofitt.com or go to a new one
[18:53] <cprofitt> jcastro: how many events do you attend a year?
[18:53] <jcastro> cprofitt: usually ohio linuxfest, ontario linuxfest and penguicon
[18:54] <cprofitt> penguincon -- where is that?
[18:54] <jcastro> detroit
[18:54] <cprofitt> are you close to use jcastro ?
[18:54] <jcastro> I am in detroit
[18:54] <cprofitt> Nice.
[18:55] <cprofitt> I mentored a guy who dropped out of HS and ended up being a sports writer covering the Lions
[18:55] <cprofitt> I forget what his name is....
[18:56] <cprofitt> that is bad... forgetting his name.
[18:58] <cprofitt> doctormo: would you be interested in going to either FOSSVT or FOSSED?
[19:00] <doctormo> cprofitt: I would
[19:00] <doctormo> VT is very near by, also near in heart.
[19:00] <cprofitt> Cool... when I get more information I will pass it on to you.
[19:00] <cprofitt> Perhaps we could both present...
[19:00] <cprofitt> and wear the FOSS/Ubuntu colors
[19:04] <doctormo> Sounds good, I have lots to talk about.
[19:20] <nigel_nb> hello :)
[19:21] <doctormo> hey nigel_nb
[19:21] <nigel_nb> hey doctormo
[19:21] <nigel_nb> sorry I couldn't talk yday
[19:21] <doctormo> np
[19:21] <nigel_nb> got back from work really late
[19:22] <nigel_nb> ground control is great, now i have to factor it in to my course
[19:22] <nigel_nb> doctormo: I have something else that might interest you
[19:22] <cprofitt> hey dinda
[19:23] <nigel_nb> doctormo: arent you in boston?
[19:24] <doctormo> nigel_nb: I am
[19:25] <nigel_nb> doctormo: http://mairin.wordpress.com/category/inkscape-class/
[19:25] <nigel_nb> doctormo: its an inkscape class taken by a fedora art member in some boston area school.. the training is sponsered by red hat
[19:25] <cprofitt> nigel_nb: you making use of the existing inkscape course in Moodle?
[19:26] <nigel_nb> cprofitt: didnt check yet, but we have now a partly written course for inkscape in terms of text, which may be rewritten
[19:26] <cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/view.php?id=6
[19:27] <cprofitt> we already have a Moodle cours (have for months) that covers Inkscape, Gimp and Scribus
[19:27] <nigel_nb> oh, great :)
[19:27] <cprofitt> it just needs to be x-fered to the asciidoc format
[19:27] <nigel_nb> ah
[19:27] <nigel_nb> my bzr course is due
[19:27] <nigel_nb> I have to finish it by end of next week
[22:17] <sonny> I'm not learning much!
[22:22] <cjohnston> lol
[22:22] <cjohnston> wow.. 3 minutes
[22:24] <Pendulum> not even. he expected to learn in 1 ;)
[22:24] <cjohnston> i want to learn something
[22:24] <cjohnston> like more about the back of my eyelids
[22:25] <Pendulum> heh
[22:29] <pleia2> btw, blogged about the project: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=2481
[22:39] <doctormo> pleia2: Fantasdtic!
[22:40] <doctormo> *hugs* you've been doing a brilliant job of powering on with some documentation for the project, much needed.
[22:40] <pleia2> *hugs*! :)
[22:40] <pleia2> thanks
[23:19] <doctormo> pleia2: How would I loop through 3 set strings in bash?
[23:22] <doctormo> Ah I found it
[23:38] <Edgar1> Hello anyone and everyone
[23:38] <Edgar1> I would like to join in the Ubuntu Learning Course.
[23:46] <pleia2> welcome Edgar1 :)
[23:47] <pleia2> interested in writing a course?
[23:48] <Edgar1> not sure of what I can write of. I could be a translator but more than english may not be something important yet
[23:49] <Edgar1> Im a web developer and have sometime using ubuntu(almost a year)
[23:49] <pleia2> cool, we will need translations eventually
[23:49] <pleia2> do you think you could do some review work?
[23:49] <Edgar1> thats cool, yes i think :)
[23:49] <pleia2> great :)
[23:50] <Edgar1> how and when can I start?
[23:50] <pleia2> well, there are a couple of folks writing classes now that will need to be reviewed soon
[23:50] <Edgar1> ok i see
[23:51] <pleia2> right at this moment... mostly we're looking for people to write things
[23:52] <pleia2> once we have something for review, we'll post it to our mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning
[23:52] <Edgar1> mmm well, i dont know if its needed but i can write about web development in Ubuntu, anyway there are some pages that contain that information
[23:52] <pleia2> like programs you can use for web development, or?
[23:53] <Edgar1> yeah programs that have some relation for use in php and apache, programs written in C and can be used in php
[23:53] <Edgar1> stuff like that
[23:53] <Edgar1> also configurating MySQL could be something
[23:54] <pleia2> hmm, trying to think of where this would fit
[23:55] <pleia2> the configuring mysql and apache things would probably be under maintaining: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[23:55] <pleia2> programming stuff would be under development: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/DeveloperTopics
[23:56] <pleia2> if you check out the SystemAdminTopics page there is a section we need covered called: "Web Hosting, apache, php, MySQL, .."
[23:57] <pleia2> what you'd probably want to do for something like that is take https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP and put it into our CourseLayout format
[23:57] <Edgar1> ok, i'll see that now. I have suscribed to the mailing-list
[23:58] <pleia2> great :)
[23:58] <pleia2> feel free to take your time, it's a big project so it can be a bit overwhelming at first


[05:40] <jbicha> what's the correct capitalization for quicklists? "Open a New Window" or "Open a new window" ?
[05:40] <jbicha> because the screenshot & sample static list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI don't match
[08:10] <sladen> morning people


 Forwarded from mitya57: Hi all! I have made a PPA for Jammy with KDE's patches to Qt Wayland. Any testing is welcome:
 https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4829
 Forwarded from mitya57: It has private ABI breaks, so it will be part of 5.15.4 transition in May, most probably.
 @DarinMiller You have some Nvidia machines?
[10:24] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Jammy Final] has been updated (20220419)
[11:26] <RikMills> we have ISOs to test :)
[12:12] <mparillo> zsyncing, but workday is also starting :-(
[12:14] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:18] <mparillo> Hi BluesKaj. Rik posted just before you came on that we have ISOs to test.
[12:19] <BluesKaj> 'morning mparillo, oh yeah? got a url ?
[12:20] <mparillo> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/432/builds/247125/testcases
[12:21] <mparillo> Interesting. I followed the link from Jammy Final, but the page heading says: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 testcases in Jammy Daily
[12:25] <BluesKaj> think I'll stick with the Jammy version I'm already using since release is in 2 days
 I can this evening after work.
 Test^
[12:48] <mparillo> Looks like a solid release. Just passed the Encryption test case.
[13:34] <mparillo> I like how the OEM option is right there in the GRUB menu. No mashing keys to try to interrupt the boot. What that means is that the test script cannot be followed literally. In addition to selecting it from GRUB, there is no longe a Try / Install option.


[15:13] <hjd> Could someone please mark bug 1306840 as triaged? (I'm a bit torn between low or medium, it's pretty easy to work around, but rather annoying it doesn't work in the first place...)
[15:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1306840 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "There are dead link in System Settings -> Security & Privacy -> Security" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306840


[12:49] <danilos> benji, bac, gmb: shall we have a call?
[12:49] <danilos> (we are a tad late though :))
[12:49] <benji> +1
[12:49] <bac> sure
[12:50] <gmb> sure
[12:51] <bac> you dialing danilos?
[12:51] <danilos> sure
[16:13]  * gmb -> taking off early tonight to take care of some errands. Early start tomorrow; see you then.


[09:37] <Laney> In [15]: len(lp.distributions['ubuntu'].main_archive.getUploadersForPackage(source_package_name='linux'))
[09:37] <Laney> Out[15]: 0
[09:37] <Laney> what did I do wrong?
[09:37] <Laney> or is that method for PPU only?
[09:38] <Laney> Seems so
[09:47] <wgrant> Right, that's direct PPU only.
[09:51] <Laney> Is there one for all direct permissions?
[09:52] <wgrant> What do you mean?
[09:53] <Laney> All archive permissions that apply to a given source package
[09:54] <wgrant> There's no direct way to calculate that.
[09:54] <wgrant> What are you trying to do?
[09:54] <Laney> I could query the component and packagesets and PPU separately
[09:54] <wgrant> The correct way to verify permissions is to use checkUpload.
[09:54] <wgrant> But that doesn't let you list them.
[09:54] <Laney> I need to list them, it's for the sponsor queue
[09:54] <wgrant> Ah.
[09:55] <wgrant> You'll need to identify packageset and component permissions separately, in that case.
[09:55] <Laney> Ta
[21:30] <suro-patz> Hello folks! Need some help in merging two accounts
[22:51] <wgrant> suro-patz: Hi, can you explain your situation?
[22:55] <suro-patz> wgrant: on launchpad my ID is suro-patz, and I have been using the same for long
[22:56] <suro-patz> yday during one of my patch submission to gerrit(openstack-review), it started picking up my launchpad id as suro-0
[22:56] <suro-patz> which I had used long back
[22:56] <suro-patz> both the id's have same primary email
[22:57] <suro-patz> now I am trying to log-in using suro-patz and want to merge suro-0 to it
[22:57] <suro-patz> but I am always getting logged in as suro-0
[22:58] <suro-patz> basically, I want to merge two of my launchpad-ids with same primary-email, to do that I want to log in as the primary-launchpad-id
[22:58] <suro-patz> which I am not able to
[22:58] <suro-patz> wgrant: ^^
[23:01] <wgrant> suro-patz: ~suro-0 was only created in March, so I'm not sure it's the account you used a long time ago.
[23:02] <wgrant> They don't have the same email email address, and they have different login.ubuntu.com accounts -- if you log in with the gmail address I'd expect you to get into ~suro-patz
[23:06] <suro-patz> wgrant: Trying ...
[23:10] <suro-patz> wgrant: Worked … thanks for correctin!
[23:13] <wgrant> suro-patz: Great, let me know if you run into anything else.


[12:59] <mdke> who knows what there are two packages for nvidia-glx and -legacy? Why not a single package?
[01:03] <Seveas> mdke, -legacy is an older version of the driver
[01:03] <Seveas> the newer versions don't support older cards
[01:06] <mdke> Seveas, I know. My question is why the drivers are not included in the same package
[01:07] <Seveas> because they use the same filenames iirc
[01:07] <mdke> there would be some obvious advantages to doing so, and I believe this is done by other distributions
[01:07] <mdke> apparently gentoo ships them together, for example
[01:08] <mdke> if that's true, can "same filenames" be the answer?
[01:20] <Seveas> apt-file lists says there are lots of files with the same filename
[01:20] <Seveas> so for Ubuntu that is the answer, dunno how gentoo does it
[01:25] <jdong> Seveas: they have a symlink handling script... opengl-update
[01:25] <jdong> i.e. "opengl-update nvidia", "opengl-update nvidia-legacy", "opengl-update mesa"
[01:26] <jdong> and it creates the appropriate opengl symlinks
[01:26] <jdong> the ebuild instructs users to run the script after emerging nvidia drivers
[01:26] <Seveas> would be the same as an alternatives group on Ubuntu
[01:26] <jdong> yeah, basicaly
[01:26] <Seveas> interesting approach
[01:26] <jdong> and we should be able to auto-detect/determine whether we need legacy or new drivers
[01:27] <jdong> (a bit complex with multiple cards, but nonetheless possible)
[01:27] <mdke> that sounds saner than having separate packages, and an extra -settings package
[01:27] <jdong> ugh, yeah, especially now that one of the nvidia-glx packages includes  nvidia-settings :D
[01:27] <mdke> quite
[01:28] <jdong> is it too late to make that change though?
[01:28] <mdke> oh yeah
[01:28] <jdong> ok
[01:28] <jdong> a bit OT, but does anyone know if Dapper i386 runs on the MacBooks?
[01:29] <jdong> (without a tremendous amount of BootCamp hacking)
[01:29] <jdong> I noticed a while back we were enabling EFI stuff left and right....
[01:36] <delire> if you haven't already, a review of dapper: http://www.linuxforums.org/reviews/ubuntu:_a_ramble_through_drake_lake.html
[01:37] <delire> out of interest has there been any talk of autodetecting cards that support XGL and providing users with an option to run it on install?
[01:42] <Chipzz> why would we wanna do that?
[01:42] <Chipzz> it's not like it's stable or even usable
[01:43] <Chipzz> compiz lacks several important features/does things wrong
[01:43] <delire> Chipzz: not for Dapper, in future in general.
[01:55] <gandalf> why isn't dapper using xulrunner for epiphany?
[02:04] <Seveas> gandalf, xulrunner wasn't ready in time
[02:05] <gandalf> its been stable for quite a while
[02:05] <robertj> delire: it is 100% safe to ignore any "a review of X OS" that comes out < 1 week AFTER OS release
[02:07] <gandalf> I get the impression that there is a lot of firefox advocacy going on which has gotten in the way of removing it as a dependance for epiphany. Rather than let the user decide the mindset seems to be that firefox should always ben installed
[02:08] <gandalf> epiphany isn't going to get far if it remains dependent on the installation of another browser to function
[02:08] <robertj> gandalf: SPEC out a "Uninstall firefox with gnome-app-install" for dapper+1 then
[02:09] <gandalf>  i'm just curious why there seems to be so much resistance to allowing epiphany to function independently of ff
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: it's just release prep
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: it's not a conspiracy
[02:11] <crimsun> never mistake malice for Parkinson's Law
[02:11] <robertj> gandalf: if anything it's probably just people ignoring any post containing the word epiphany because of all the "Epiphany should be our default browser" posts
[02:13] <gandalf> maybe, some of the ML chatter just leads me to believe that some people are pushing ff too hard. I can understand why. FF does not really fit in with KDE, and konqueror is pretty solid these days. FF is a better fit in gnome, but still not HIG compliant or as integrated as epiphany. If you make epiphany independent of FF then there will be a lot fewer FF installs on linux desktops
[02:14] <sabdfl> i would really like to see better FF / desktop integration, for one
[02:14] <gandalf> won't happen
[02:14] <Chipzz> gandalf: and yet I like ff *a lot* more than epiphany
[02:15] <Chipzz> bckspace/shift-bckspace
[02:15] <Chipzz> tabs taking up less vertical space
[02:15] <gandalf> sure FF has a lot going for it, but it suffers from a sluggish interface
[02:15] <Chipzz> tabs shrinking horizontally
[02:15] <gandalf> there are actually moving to fixed width tabs
[02:16] <Chipzz> it does, and is still preferable to epi
[02:16] <Chipzz> epi just lacks a lot of the shortcuts/features I'm used to from ff
[02:17] <robertj> sabdfl: is there a way to assign a draft spec to dapper+1 currently?
[02:17] <gandalf> sure, and for those users that want FF it is easy enough for them to select it as an option. Epiphany is covering a difference audience that FF
[02:18] <Chipzz> gandalf: for users migrating from windows, its still not a good idea
[02:18] <jdong> better FF performance....
[02:18] <jdong> right now it's not even funny
[02:18] <Chipzz> they me be migrating from windows + ff
[02:18] <jdong> UI redraws are horrendously CPU and time intensive
[02:18] <Chipzz> and even in windows + ie backspace / shift-backspace work
[02:19] <gandalf> I use FF on windows because it performs OK, but the linux version is the poor relation for sure. Even the UI looks klunky in comparison
[02:19] <robertj> I think for most users, firefox is one of their best parts of the Linux experience
[02:20] <gandalf> no way
[02:20] <robertj> Web-browsing is a relatively complete use case
[02:21] <gandalf> The linux version is very neglected, and it's not getting the kind of love the win32 versin does. Understandable though as win32 is one deskop platform, with linux you have a lot more desktop options and so far less integration
[02:21] <Chipzz> gandalf: while I agree with you that firefox could be better integrated with gnome, epi is IMHO not the solution
[02:21] <jdong> the integration has improved recently...
[02:21] <robertj> I use Firefox on Mac daily and so perhaps I'm just thankful for the versions shipped by Ubuntu
[02:22] <Chipzz> it still does not use stock icons
[02:22] <gandalf> OK, but epiphany should be compiled to use XULrunner and it should be the default browser if the user chooses gnome as their desktop
[02:23] <gandalf> just like konqueror should be the default if KDE is used as the desktop
[02:23] <jbailey> lifeless: Was out for the WE, am back now.  'sup?
[02:23] <Chipzz> gandalf: *sigh*
[02:24] <Chipzz> gandalf: as has been pointed out to before, its not compiled vs xulrunner probably because the ubuntu people did not want to introduce new risks by switching to xulrunner this late in the release-cycle
[02:25] <gandalf> So you saidm I'm taking about a +1 release
[02:25] <Chipzz> s/out to/out to you/
[02:25] <lifeless> jbailey: failure to boot with the current kernel, initramfs isn't running evms_activate properly
[02:25] <Chipzz> s/vs/against/
[02:25] <robertj> Chipzz: do you have any idea if you can propose a spec target a specific milestone?
[02:25] <Chipzz> robertj: no, I'm not even an ubuntu developer ;)
[02:25] <robertj> Chipzz: or if there is even a spec overview page?
[02:25] <jbailey> lifeless: Ugh, weird.  I don't have an evms setup to test, and am not really involved in initramfs stuff these days.
[02:25] <jbailey> lifeless: So I don't have a good answer off hand, sorry.
[02:26] <lifeless> jbailey: np. I got keybuks eyeballs for a bit
[02:26] <lifeless> and we concluded it was weird.
[02:27] <lifeless> still needs a fix though, have to manually repair each boot at the moment
[02:27] <Chipzz> gandalf: you'll have to come up with better arguments if you want epi to be the default browser
[02:27] <jbailey> lifeless: Huh, weird.
[02:27] <lifeless> (repair == 'evms_activate'; Ctrl-D)
[02:28] <Chipzz> gandalf: I'm sure the ubuntu people have very good reasons for having it as a default
[02:28] <robertj> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs is the overpage btw
[02:28] <gandalf> Chipzz: Would you have 'gedit' as the default text editor in KDE?
[02:28] <Chipzz> firefox is neither gnome nor kde
[02:28] <Chipzz> bzzzzzzzzzzt, bad example
[02:28] <Chipzz> next?
[02:29] <Chipzz> (I use vim anyway, but whatever)
[02:29] <gandalf> exactly! Firefox should be an elected default. Otherwise you are lumbering users with a sub-optimal experience
[02:29] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:31] <Chipzz> gandalf: I'm growing really tired of this discussion
[02:31] <Chipzz> your argument is incorrect
[02:31] <Chipzz> .
[02:31] <gandalf> Chipzz: because it does not accord with your view of things? Not really the acid test of validity I feel
[02:32] <Chipzz> gandalf: no, because your reasoning IS incorrect
[02:32] <Chipzz> let me show you why
[02:32] <Chipzz> firefox is not a gnome application, neither a kde application
[02:32] <Chipzz> lets call it an "X application"
[02:33] <Chipzz> using firefox on gnome == using an X application on gnome
[02:33] <Chipzz> using gedit on kde = using a gnome application on kde
[02:33] <Chipzz> see how that is different?
[02:35] <gandalf> yes, but the point is FF is not giving the user an optimal experience in gnome or kde so it should not be the default in either. The kind of users that would know about FF are going to be able to set it as default themselves
[02:35] <Chipzz> no
[02:36] <Chipzz> firefox is not giving the user an optimal experience *in*your*opinion*
[02:36] <gandalf> well me and a small army
[02:36] <Chipzz> epiphany just lacks too many features *in*my*opinion* to be usefull
[02:36] <Chipzz> oh and btw
[02:37] <Chipzz> noticed how ubuntu is not the only distro doing this?
[02:38] <neuralis> the reasons for using firefox instead of epiphany have been debated ad nauseam on u-d. nothing to see here, please move on.
[02:38] <gandalf> Chipzz: But youknow enough to chnage the browser. Joe Average user is likely going to stick with whatever he gets, and lumping him with FF seems abad decision
[02:38] <Chipzz> if joe average user is unable to change his browser, he is most likely coming from windows (with either ie or ff) anyway
[02:39] <Chipzz> for ie it doesn't make a difference, for ff it's what he's used to
[02:40] <gandalf> raher confusing though as FF is not HIG compliant for gnome
[02:40] <Chipzz> oh god
[02:40] <Chipzz> 02:21 < Chipzz> gandalf: while I agree with you that firefox could be better integrated with gnome, epi is IMHO not the solution
[02:41] <Chipzz> I didn't say it couldn't be improved, did I?
[02:41] <gandalf> gnome hig has been around for a long time
[02:41] <Chipzz> but in the end it does not matter what you think or what I think
[02:42] <Chipzz> 02:38 < neuralis> the reasons for using firefox instead of epiphany have been debated ad nauseam on u-d. nothing to see here, please move on.
[02:43] <gandalf> like i said before I understand why people are pushing FF, I just think they do it for the wrong reasons
[02:45] <Chipzz> wrt gnome hig btw
[02:45] <Chipzz> a lot bigger problem is OOo imho
[02:46] <Steff_breezy> hi, could somebody please tell me a name of a channel op of #ubuntu, im banned from there for posting off topic content, i want to excuse and participate again
[02:47] <neuralis> Steff_breezy: seveas is one person to talk to.
[02:47] <Steff_breezy> ok, htx
[03:14] <Lathiat> hrm
[03:14] <Lathiat> what happened to /etc/network/options
[03:14] <Lathiat> thats goign to break some msetups
[03:16] <Lathiat> aah, i see
[03:17] <Lathiat> usign sysctl.conf, still, that can breaj existing setups that rely e.g. on ip_forward, so there should be some notes about that or someting
[04:41] <jdong> are the new ipw3945abg cards going to be supported by dapper?
[04:41] <jdong> specifically, Malone 35215....
[04:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35215 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ipw3945 driver required for functionality on new Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express Adapters" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35215
[04:41] <jdong> so, being in progress, does that mean we're going to support it?
[04:42] <jdong> including the userspace daemon and firmware, so that it works out-of-the-box?
[04:42] <jdong> it's scary how many core duos are on the shelves nowadays
[04:42] <jdong> they just exploded in popularity
[05:00] <sabdfl> jdong: will you get a read on that from benc later?
[05:02] <jdong> sabdfl: it sounds like a sortof yes.... I've heard at least one of those back two releases ago that didn't make it because of missing pieces ;)
[05:02] <jdong> but I have confidence in you guys
[05:03] <sabdfl> 3945 is quite a big deal
[05:03] <jdong> I understand... which is why I am quite concerned about it
[05:04] <jdong> other than this wifi card, I think we support el generico core duo pretty well
[05:04] <jdong> I believe we have the sound card and video drivers for it working, already
[05:04] <jdong> (I guess a background motive is I'm looking into buying a core duo myself... and want to make sure it'll run Ubuntu!)
[05:06] <bddebian> heh
[05:07] <bddebian> Hey it'll run XP/vista, what more could you need? ;-P
[05:13] <jdong> lol
[05:16] <jdong> well, I'm gonna go off to bed now
[05:16] <jdong> great to see you, sabdfl....
[05:16] <jdong> night
[05:16] <sabdfl> night
[05:17] <lifeless> gnight
[06:12] <Burgundavia> mako: you around?
[06:30] <neuralis> Burgundavia: hey
[06:30] <neuralis> Burgundavia: mako and i are here, you around?
[06:30] <Burgundavia> neuralis: check
[06:32] <ajmitch> hi neuralis, Burgundavia
[06:33] <Burgundavia> salut ajmitch
[06:34] <neuralis> hey ajmitch
[06:34] <neuralis> how goes?
[06:34] <ajmitch> good, just fighting with zope :)
[06:35] <neuralis> yuck. i won't repeat my opinion of zope :)
[06:35] <ajmitch> yeah, I remember your decriptions :
[06:35] <ajmitch> but I'm using plone for a project - pity it's all uninstallable right now
[07:46] <Burgundavia> mako: about to head to bed. You around?
[07:58] <Amaranth> mathrick: build-essential is a package you can guarantee is installed on the buildds, thus no package depends on it, needed or not
[07:58] <Amaranth> \sh!
[07:58] <mathrick> Amaranth: buildds is what?
[07:58] <\sh> moins Amaranth
[07:59] <Amaranth> mathrick: debian and ubuntu and likely everyone else making debian derivatives
[07:59] <Amaranth> mathrick: it's just...there
[07:59] <mathrick> Amaranth: but, uh, that's about an end-user oriented package
[07:59] <mathrick> I couldn't care less what's installed on debian's build machines :)
[08:00] <Amaranth> yeah, tricky
[08:00] <mathrick> IMHO, there should be devel-core package
[08:00] <Amaranth> you can try reopening it and pointing that out, i guess
[08:00] <Amaranth> devel-core? you mean build-essential? :)
[08:01] <mathrick> since debuild isn't really the essential dep for someone doing own devel
[08:01] <mathrick> s/the/an/
[08:01] <Amaranth> hmm
[08:01] <Amaranth> i'd think it wouldn't be worth the hassle
[08:01] <\sh> hmm..anyone an idea if there is a python interface lib for procfs?
[08:02] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[08:02] <mako> Burgundavia: hey
[08:02] <mako> i'm back home now
[08:02] <\sh> morning ajmitch :)
[08:03] <Amaranth> \sh: google turns up nothing useful
[08:03] <\sh> Amaranth: yeah...google was my first place to look :)
[08:04] <mathrick> Amaranth: hassle?
[08:04] <Amaranth> actually, first result?
[08:04] <mathrick> it's a simple dummy package
[08:04] <mathrick> s/dummy/meta/
[08:04] <Amaranth> In the pyNMS package on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pynms) there is a module called Linux.procfs, and in it there is an object called "ProcStat" that lets you get the process info easily (if running on Linux).
[08:04] <\sh> Amaranth: something with windows and procfs from a external package...which has nothing to do :)
[08:04] <\sh> Amaranth: yeah...checked it...it's only one class for ProcStat
[08:04] <Amaranth> ah
[08:04] <\sh> which is nothing :)
[08:05] <Amaranth> mathrick: you'd have to keep it in sync with build-essential and such
[08:05] <mathrick> Amaranth: I would?
[08:05] <mathrick> isn't that simply a small list of "assumed to be present" build tools?
[08:06] <mathrick> I really don't care about debian here, I want to compile my stuff
[08:06] <Amaranth> yeah, like make, auto*, etc
[08:06] <Amaranth> it'd be easy enough normally but you'd probably have to make it yourself
[08:07] <Amaranth> so..yeah :P
[08:14] <\sh> hmmm....
[08:15] <\sh> am I so damn stupid?
[08:15] <\sh>  /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
[08:16] <\sh> this is working for all users to mount a cdrom drive from gnome or kde, right? /media/cdrom0 is plain directory, with 755 as permission settings
[08:16] <\sh> now I want this behaviour for an samba share
[08:16] <\sh> /<IP_ADDRESS>/mp3      /media/mp3      smbfs   user,noauto     0       0
[08:17] <\sh> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root    6 2006-04-15 05:23 mp3
[08:17] <\sh> and I'm not allowed because of the /media/mp3 directory
[08:17] <\sh> gnarf
[08:18] <\sh> so what can be wrong?
[08:19] <fabbione> \sh: iirc the samba mount points in fstab are different
[08:19] <fabbione> like \\<IP_ADDRESS>\mp3
[08:20] <\sh> fabbione: no...this works as root and when I have it on auto :)
[08:20] <\sh> all checked :)
[08:20] <\sh> i had to set smbmnt to suid
[08:20] <\sh> to get the mount working for plain users
[08:20] <\sh> but now
[08:20] <fabbione> ok
[08:20] <\sh> shermann@toshiba-laptop:~$ mount /media/mp3
[08:20] <\sh> Password:
[08:20] <\sh> cannot mount on /media/mp3: Operation not permitted
[08:20] <\sh> smbmnt failed: 1
[08:21] <fabbione> strace it to see what is reporting the error?
[08:21] <tritium> \sh: have you tried libpam-mount?
[08:21] <\sh> fabbione: that's what I'm doing next :)
[08:24] <\sh> mount.smbfs is telling me this...but why and where...i don't even see in strace
[08:24] <\sh> lstat64("/media", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=84, ...}) = 0
[08:24] <\sh> lstat64("/media/mp3", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=6, ...}) = 0
[08:24] <\sh> geteuid32()                             = 1000
[08:25] <\sh> tritium: what about libpam-mount?
[08:26] <tritium> \sh: I use it to auto-mount samba dirs on our network at work.  No need for /etc/fstab or credentials files either
[08:27] <\sh> tritium: I don't want to automount them :) I want that a user can mount them on demand with their own logins towards the samba server..this works actually as root :) but now for the plain user :)
[08:27] <tritium> \sh: it's not an auto-mount.  My poor choice of words.  It mounts when I login.
[08:28] <tritium> \sh: anyway, it may be worth looking at, or not
[08:29] <\sh> apt-get install libpam-mount?
[08:30] <tritium> yes, \sh
[08:33] <tritium> \sh: I appended "@include common-pammount" to /etc/pam.d/gdm and /etc/pam.d/login, and then setup a ~/.pam_mount.conf file
[08:34] <tritium> the docs in the package are pretty good
[08:34] <\sh> yeah...just reading :)
[08:35] <\sh> restarting session brb
[08:42] <mako> neuralis: i talked to corey.. he seems cool with whatever
[08:42] <mako> neuralis: and i just emailed everyone with the suggestion
[08:42] <tritium> \sh: how did it work out?
[08:46] <\sh> tritium: in the moment it does nothing :)
[08:46] <\sh> tritium: I wrote something like this in .pam_mount.conf
[08:46] <\sh> volume shermann smbfs <IP_ADDRESS> mp3 /home/shermann/mp3
[08:47] <tritium> \sh: Did you allow "luserconf .pam_mount.conf" in /etc/security/pam_mount.conf?
[08:48] <\sh> tritium: yeah...everything setuped :)
[08:49] <tritium> \sh: perhaps you're missing a few options (or - - - if no options needed) at the end of that line
[08:49] <\sh> tritium: logfile for this?
[08:50] <tritium> \sh: I'll query you and show you my .pam_mount.conf
[08:50] <\sh> kk
[09:00] <\sh> re
[09:01] <\sh> hmmm...after kdm login this won't work still...brb
[09:02] <\sh> but now :) it was kdm-np and not kdm :)
[09:03] <tritium> \sh: cool :)
[09:20] <sivang> morning all
[09:24] <zyga> hello sivang
[09:24] <zyga> sivang: did you manage to pull those patches yesterday?
[09:36] <mathrick> zyga: wow, a Pole! :)
[09:36] <zyga> mathrick: hi
[09:37] <zyga> there are other native folks here from time to time
[09:37] <mathrick> by native you mean Polish, or just any random $NATIONALITY?
[09:37] <zyga> the former
[09:38] <mathrick> I see
[09:47] <sivang> zyga: will do that today, had to catch a train back home last night, then arrived beat and went to sleep.
[09:47] <zyga> sivang: I see
[09:48] <enyc> Question: ?where may I see/find-out information abuot Firefox updates in Ubuntu... note that Mozilla have released Firefox 1.0.8 and <IP_ADDRESS> (security updates), and that (now) warty/hoary/breezy ought to get patched to 1.0.8 or fixes taken-across.... but mozilla only intend to suppotr the 1.0 series for 6 months (being therefore a problem for future security-updates in hoary and breezy).......
[09:50] <zyga> enyc: hoary is about to be end-of-lifed AFAIR
[09:50] <Amaranth> enyc: mozilla's support for 1.0.x is nonexistant
[09:50] <Amaranth> 1.0.8 was the last release
[09:51] <Amaranth> zyga: warty
[09:51] <zyga> Amaranth: ah, right
[09:54] <enyc> zyga: well... ubuntu 4.10 support ends on 2006/04/30 ... which is a few weeks away...
[09:55] <enyc> zyga: and firefox security update upstream is _now_ ;-)
[10:10] <enyc> highvoltage: do you have any notes/information on firefox security updates r.e. 1.0.8-patches for warty/hoary/breezy ?
[10:10] <highvoltage> enyc: nope
[10:10] <enyc> hrrm
[10:11] <enyc> I wonder who looks after such things ;-)
[10:11] <highvoltage> sorry..
[10:11] <highvoltage> enyc: the ubuntu security team?
[10:11] <enyc> hrrm
[10:11] <enyc> do they have a discussion channel or problems-to-be-dealt-with page or such-like ?
[10:11] <enyc> or just genera malone bugs blah?
[10:11] <highvoltage> enyc: note that warty is now unsupported, so it's probably just hoary and breezy that will get the security updates
[10:11] <fabbione> enyc: no need to panic.. this "problem" has been already discussed in the security team
[10:11] <enyc> I thught warty support ends on end of this month
[10:12] <fabbione> warty might get the update
[10:12] <fabbione> hoary and breezy will for sure
[10:13] <enyc> fabbione: enyc not panicing but enyc want to nknow where such discussions are ;-)
[10:14] <fabbione> enyc: there isn't really much to discuss.. if you find a security problem you comunicate it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:14] <fabbione> usually keep a problem quite to give security teams time to take actions is the best thing to do
[10:14] <fabbione> instead of spreading panic around people
[10:14] <enyc> aah k ;-)
[10:15] <enyc> so how doe s fabb know this has already been discussed by the team?
[10:15] <fabbione> i am used to be part of the security team
[10:15] <highvoltage> fabbione: ubuntu's policy is to disclose any security information as soon as it's available, right?
[10:16] <fabbione> highvoltage: it depends from the problem and it is discovered. It is really a matter of case by case here
[10:16] <enyc> fabbione: thats sensible
[10:16] <fabbione> and HOW it is discovered
[10:17] <fabbione> highvoltage: clearly as soon as there is a fix available, that's made available and USN published
[10:17] <highvoltage> ok
[10:18] <enyc> sure. like somebody points it out quietly ;-)   or.. its being talked about all over the place already ;-)
[10:18] <fabbione> there are more issues than just that
[10:18] <fabbione> it depends on what kind of security issue it is
[10:18] <fabbione> and what's the impact
[10:18] <enyc> i see
[10:18] <fabbione> it's way more complicated than it looks like
[10:20] <fabbione> there are also situations in which user foo finds security issue and tells upstream
[10:20] <fabbione> upstream asks to keep it quite for the time it takes to fix it
[10:20] <fabbione> because perhaps a fix might require a lot of code rewrite..
[10:21] <fabbione> but you might find that the issue is just a possible application crash and the application is xeyes
[10:21] <fabbione> so it's not exactly high impact
[12:22] <rupert> can someone help mit LUKS and the crypttab?
[12:24] <Treenaks> crypttab?
[12:26] <rupert> i just found a forum tread that seems to help, i have the error when /etc/cryptdisks is started,the drive wasnat initialized correct, i will just reboot and when the error ist there i will come back,
[12:33] <pygi> Mithrandir: here?
[12:35] <Mithrandir> pygi: yes, but it's a vacation day for me today.
[02:21] <zul> heylo
[02:21] <_ion> hilo
[02:40] <rcaskey_> is launchpad's userbase currently stored in ldap?
[02:42] <Mithrandir> I wouldn't think so, why?
[02:42] <rcaskey_> Mithrandir: I was curious as to how one might go about grafting an openid identity provider onto it
[02:43] <rcaskey_> thought it might be a good goal for dapper+1
[02:43] <zakame> hi all
[02:47] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: its nto really a dapper related goal
[02:47] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: so dapper+1 is arbitrary :)
[02:47] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: what's wrong with arbitrary ;)
[02:48] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: good idea/bad idea?
[02:48] <Lathiat> rcaskey_: no idea, but its !ubuntu related :) #launchpad perhaps?
[02:49] <rcaskey_> Lathiat: ahh, did not know there was such a ##beast
[02:49] <Lathiat> :)
[03:12] <lemsx1> please apply this temporary fix to logcheck: Bug #29550
[03:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29550 in logcheck "logcheck cant get lockfile, does not work. (Dapper)" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29550
[03:13] <lemsx1> just adding a new line to /etc/cron.d/logcheck: 1 * * * *       root    test ! -d /var/lock/logcheck && mkdir -p /var/lock/logcheck && chown -R logcheck /var/lock/logcheck
[03:13] <lemsx1> there are MANY bugs open on that package for the same problem
[04:44] <janimo> seb128, hi can you get the gdm upload with xubuntu art dependency in before beta?thanks
[05:58] <_ion> glatzor: "HOWTO: Use the proprietary MGA HAL driver with modular X"  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=161603
[06:03] <glatzor> _ion: nice
[06:04] <glatzor> have you already attached your patch to the bug report?
[06:05] <_ion> glatzor: Not yet. I think i should read some user comments from that forum thread first.
[06:07] <fabbione> good morning mdz
[06:07] <mdz> morning
[06:07] <fabbione> are you in london?
[06:07] <mdz> yes
[06:07] <fabbione> ahh
[06:07] <mdz> and the sun is shining!
[06:08] <fabbione> amazing!
[06:08] <janimo> mdz, hi I'd like to get thunar beta1 (released today) in our beta. Is it ok considering the beta freeze?
[06:08] <sivang> happy easter mdz , fabbione :)
[06:08] <janimo> and generally xfce 4.4 beta1 is being tagged today/tomorrw
[06:08] <fabbione> sivang: thanks, same to you
[06:09] <sivang> fabbione: :) how is london?
[06:09] <fabbione> sivang: i am not in londong...
[06:09] <fabbione> london even
[06:09] <mdz> janimo: your call; it won't interfere with the ubuntu beta
[06:09] <janimo> mdz, ok thanks
[06:10] <sivang> fabbione: oops, it's mdz that's in london :)
[06:10] <glatzor> hi mdz. michael asked me about the status of my dapper bugs. the problem is that i cannot see any milestones in my launchpand.
[06:11] <glatzor> seems like a permission issue, right?
[06:12] <mdz> glatzor: no, I don't think so
[06:12] <mdz> perhaps they are just not visible where you are looking
[06:12] <glatzor> michael created a lp query and we assigned them to him
[06:12] <glatzor> mdz: we even compared screenshots :)
[06:12] <glatzor> i have to leave for lunch. bye
[06:13] <mdz> the milestones are visible even to users who are not logged in
[06:14] <Mithrandir> janimo: are you aiming at releasing with the rest of Ubuntu on Thursday?
[06:17] <janimo> Mithrandir: yes
[06:17] <janimo> with livecd too hopefully
[06:19] <Mithrandir> janimo: nice :-)
[06:20] <janimo> :)
[06:28] <\sh> bah...where is the gun to shoot me
[06:28] <\sh> I wonder what's installed on kamions cdbuilding server....
[06:36] <glatzor> mdz: i show you the screenshot if i am back at home
[06:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: I just booted the current dapper daily-live in vmware, and there is neither an espresso launcher nor example-content link on the desktop; any idea?
[06:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: also, it seems that /var/log/casper is gone. where is the log written now?
[06:50] <mdz> \sh: breezy/i386
[06:53] <\sh> mdz: hehe..:) I'm just trying to figure out the magic of kamions cd baking magic :)
[06:53] <\sh> everything is there...it's just not putting the packages into the iso
[06:54] <\sh> one file which should be filled, is empty...and I don't know how...comparing the cdbuild-logs in kamions public and my logs are not so different..the packages of cause are missing
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: today's image might be dodgy. for some reasons the buildd have been offline more than 24 hours. so something might not be exactly as it should be
[07:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: it doesn't log at the moment, sadly.  I haven't had time to implement it.
[07:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: but I can reproduce it.  I'll see if it's better tomorrow when I start testing as such, since it's still holiday for me.
[07:05] <\sh> OUTCH
[07:05] <\sh> KAMION
[07:12] <mdz> fabbione: are they fixed now?
[07:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: hmm, the logging needs fixing, that's another regression from breezy
[07:12] <fabbione> mdz: the buildd yes, the images mostlikely no, since it did happen after cron.daily
[07:13] <fabbione> and i didn't really spend time looking at what might have been broken
[07:13] <fabbione> it's holidays here too :)
[07:15] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[07:15] <_ion> Howdy-ho.
[07:16] <bddebian> Mr. Hanky? ;-)
[07:16] <_ion> Indeed. :-)
[07:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: file a bug.
[07:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: was already doing so
[07:17] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[07:17] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[07:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: btw, mv: unable to rename `/root/home/ubuntu/Examples': Not a directory
[07:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: hm, trivial fix for that one, at least.
[07:19] <G0SUB_> jdub: ping
[07:19] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'll file that one as well, unless you've already fixed it
[07:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: I just fixed it in bzr, so unless you really want to, don't. :-)
[07:20] <mdz> ok
[07:33] <\sh> ok...one enhancement so far...I have 111MB iso image for the installer...but where's the rest ...why is this nasty thing not putting the other packages on the cd
[07:35] <G0SUB_> \sh: hey! welcome back :)
[07:37] <\sh> huhu G0SUB_
[07:37] <\sh> grmpf ....this is a beast...
[07:37] <\sh> export CDIMAGE_INSTALL=1 works ... ah come on...now it works
[07:46] <bddebian> \sh!
[07:47] <\sh> bddebian !
[08:03] <jdong> where are development kernel sources kept?
[08:03] <jdong> is there a git/bzr repository somewhere?
[08:04] <fabbione> jdong: yes there is a git repo
[08:04] <fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide
[08:07] <jdong> thank you
[08:14] <\sh> lol...Larry Ellison, boss of oracle, is thinking about buying Novell, to have an OS, just like MS.
[08:14] <bddebian> Ellison is a puke
[08:14] <\sh> and they have to think, if they can cooporate with redhat, after they bought jboss...because now, redhat is in their business (middleware) *rotfl*
[08:16] <zul> i dont think oracle know how to do an os...properly even..
[08:16] <\sh> as "the thing" said: don't do drugs !! :)
[08:16] <\sh> well, novell didn't know it either :) but now..no one is talking about novell netware anymore...;)
[08:16] <zul> netware rocks!! ;)
[08:17] <bddebian> Actually I used to like Netware around 3.11
[08:17] <\sh> well, it's just like you said just now: "BNC networks are the future" ;)
[08:18] <zul> you only need 4MB of ram as well
[08:18] <doko_> Kamion, mdz: would you mind updates of gnome java bindings in universe before the beta?
[08:19] <\sh> zul: well, then should novell invent the "netware fridge - the OS for _your_ fridge..small, fresh and icy"
[08:19] <zul> hmmm...fridge
[08:23] <\sh> and in the manual of netware fridge, there will be written: "Plugin your BNC cable but beware of the cleaning lady"
[08:28] <zul> mdz: ping
[08:32] <dholbach> Kamion: if you have the time, could you please move tang{o,erine}-icon-theme to main? (pitti approved them and I'd like to do a ubuntu-meta update)
[08:33] <fabbione> dholbach: did you seed them already?
[08:33] <fabbione> if so they will appear in one of Kamion's super tools of death
[08:33] <bddebian> heh
[08:33] <dholbach> fabbione: i did that, but  ./update   in ubuntu-meta said "Nothing to do." or something
[08:33] <Mithrandir> aka anastacia?
[08:34] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah probably
[08:35] <dholbach> fabbione, Mithrandir: so what do I do wrong? I seeded them, but ubuntu-meta's ./update is not happy with it.
[08:36] <fabbione> dholbach: one second
[08:36] <dholbach> take your time :)
[08:36] <fabbione> dholbach: i know why...
[08:37] <fabbione> i will give you one more chance to think :)
[08:37] <dholbach> don't excite me even more... tell me! :-)
[08:37] <fabbione> i am sure as hell that chinstrap != rookery
[08:38] <dholbach> they are not the same
[08:38] <fabbione> exactly
[08:38] <fabbione> so if you did seed the pkgs on chinstrap
[08:38] <fabbione> you might need to wait that it propagates to rookery
[08:38] <fabbione> aka people
[08:38] <dholbach> i waited 2,5 days
[08:38] <fabbione> where ./update expects the seeds
[08:38] <dholbach> if that's a weekly cronjob, I might have had bad luck :-p
[08:39] <fabbione> probably Kamion's script is broken..
[08:39] <fabbione> it's not the first time it stops mirroring
[08:39] <dholbach> i'll just try to ping him tomorrow
[08:39] <dholbach> nevermind... thanks for investigating
[08:44] <\sh> hmm...can someone say something to xserver-xgl? is it stable and how is the performance on <1.5GHz machines?
[08:44] <Tm_T> \sh: "stable" but I won't use it until it gets more mature
[08:45] <Tm_T> atleast I couldnt get it work well with KDE
[08:45] <\sh> Tm_T: but I can switch between xorg and xgl?
[08:46] <Tm_T> afaik not fast enough :p
[08:46] <\sh> I mean, if I install it now, my xorg conf and everything else will not be destroyed by accident?
[08:47] <Tm_T> should not
[08:48] <\sh> ok.let's see..how can I activate Xgl?
[08:48] <Tm_T> hum
[08:48] <Tm_T> got that funky message?
[08:48] <\sh> yepp
[08:48] <Tm_T> ;)
[08:49] <\sh> cool thx :)
[08:49] <Tm_T> \sh: just remind you, I'm slightly agains Xgl, so I'm not good guy to help with it ;)
[08:50] <Tm_T> or even tell about it
[08:50] <janimo> dholbach: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/t/tango-icon-theme/
[08:50] <janimo> since it's in universe update does not see them
[08:50] <Tm_T> \sh: have fun with it, I'm off to sleep ->
[08:51] <janimo> so even if it's in the seed it is ignired untiul it enters main
[08:51] <dholbach> janimo: I suppose, asking Colin was the right thing to do, hm? :)
[08:51] <janimo> yep :)
[08:51] <dholbach> woohoo! :)
[08:51] <bddebian> "It's much easier to beg forgiveness, than ask permission"
[08:51] <janimo> although he is probably notified by anastacia as fabione said
[08:52] <janimo> dholbach: just checking out murphy's site :)
[08:52] <dholbach> haha :)
[08:53] <dholbach> my brother made it :)
[08:54] <janimo> nice :)
[09:02] <\sh> ok..i810 doesn't work at all it seems :)
[09:09] <zul> yeah i had the same problem..
[09:12] <bddebian> i810 is a PITA :-(
[09:14] <coyctecm> i810 works great :)
[09:14] <coyctecm> with ubuntu 6.04 thought
[09:14] <\sh> but not with xgl :)
[09:15] <coyctecm> ok
[09:15] <coyctecm> sorry i was thinking that this is #gentoo :D
[09:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39907 in openoffice.org openoffice.org-base "new table wizard crashes on ppc64" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39907
[09:16] <shackan> \sh, xgl runs almost fine on mine
[09:16] <\sh> which card?
[09:16] <shackan> i810 ...
[09:16] <\sh> my combi was: i810, xgl, kde :)
[09:17] <shackan> well, change kde with gnome and you have my setup
[09:17] <shackan> (not atm, actually, just tried it for fun a while back)
[09:19] <rcaskey_> shackan: a few weeks back xgl was working but some window effects were very slow
[09:19] <rcaskey_> window resizing was _VERY_ slow but the cube animation was very fluid. Some crashes of course..
[09:20] <shackan> it was usable here, except for the wobbly effect which would slow down with a big window
[09:20] <shackan> but heh, all I might need it for is the expos-like feature
[09:20] <bddebian> What package is supposed to create /dev/sequencer?
[09:20] <shackan> as I tend to clutter my desktop(s) with many windows
[09:21] <shackan> mh, is there anything to simulate expos in metacity ?
[09:29] <KaiL> gar, damn Crashfox.... eh, Firefox - chances for <IP_ADDRESS> in dapper? ;)
[09:29] <mjg59> KaiL: File bugs, link to fixes
[09:29] <Burgwork> KaiL, it will happen, due to mozilla's braindead support strategy
[09:30] <mjg59> Where "fixes" may be "Upgrade to <IP_ADDRESS>", so...
[09:30] <KaiL> mjg59, do we now need bugs for that?
[09:31] <mjg59> KaiL: "Firefox crashes when I do this. <IP_ADDRESS> doesn't" is a bug, yes
[09:31] <KaiL> reminds me of old mozilla days, where a dey, who found a bug needed to file a bug with a patch, before he could fix it ;)
[09:31] <mjg59> We're in beta freeze
[09:31] <KaiL> I don't know, if <IP_ADDRESS> doesn't crash that often - I only hope it..
[09:31] <mjg59> There needs to be a compelling reason to change software versions right now
[09:32] <KaiL> don't have the time to check that now
[09:32] <KaiL> the security issues found in <IP_ADDRESS>?
[09:42] <zyga> hey guys
[09:42] <zyga> has anyone noticed artefacts in the notification popus?
[09:42] <zyga> I can reproduce them all the time
[09:42] <zyga> usually a few black pixels out of place
[09:43] <KaiL> looks like driver issues..
[09:43] <zyga> KaiL: not really
[09:43] <zyga> it only happens in the notification popup
[09:43] <zyga> and only to specific texts
[09:44] <zyga> it seems that the popup is sized badly so that some text is invisible except for the topmost pixels
[10:21] <_ion> This tangerine-icon-theme is really nice.
[10:21] <_ion> I wish it were the default theme in dapper. :-)
[10:22] <dholbach> _ion: Human falls back to Tangerine
[10:22] <_ion> I like the Tangerine icons more than the Human icons.
[10:23] <_ion> But, of course, that's just my personal opinion.
[10:23] <dholbach> _ion: yeah, but they cover different areas of icons
[10:23] <dholbach> _ion: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ shows which icons are in which set already
[10:23] <_ion> Well, i wish they copied the directory icon from Tangerine to Human. :-)
[10:23] <andreasn> _ion: you can select tangrine only in the theme prefs
[10:24] <_ion> Yes, that's what i have done.
[10:24] <andreasn> but as dholbach says, some stuff is still missing
[10:24] <andreasn> :)
[10:31] <morka_> hi all
[10:32] <bddebian> Hello morka_
[10:32] <morka_> im curious how does ubuntu treat debian bugs?
[10:33] <morka_> (if they affect ubuntu)
[10:33] <dholbach> good night guys... I'm off - see you tomorrow
[10:33] <\sh> cu dholbach
[10:33] <\sh> morka_: e.g.?
[10:33] <_ion> Night.
[10:34] <mdke> bon nuit monsieur dholbach
[10:34] <morka_> there seems to be an bug affects both debians and ubuntus partman
[10:35] <morka_> ive seen it on debians mailing lists, trying to search for it in bugzilla.
[10:35] <\sh> bugzilla? launchpad you mean :)
[10:35] <morka_> ok, whatever the name of it is:)
[10:38] <morka_> oh, there are bounties:)
[11:01] <Surak> bug #39002 is still present after the fix...
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39002 in nautilus "Can't rename _SOME_ icons when they are on destkop." [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39002
[11:02] <Burgwork> Surak, if you are certain you have the latest, reopen the bug
[11:03] <Surak> I'm getting a today's  build so I can certify everything is fully updated and correct.
[11:07] <cartel_> hey all
[11:08] <cartel_> Manoj is listed as mintainer of kernel-package, but he is not the maintainer of the ubuntu package. Who is the real maintainer/packager for this package?
[11:10] <crimsun> cartel_: core-dev? there's no single maintainer.
[11:12] <cartel_> crimsun: the maintainer field should be updated as im sure manoj doesnt need any email regarding a package not built by him
[11:12] <cartel_> crimsun: any core-dev people around?
[11:16] <LaserJock> cartel_: I didn't think Ubuntu changed the Maintainer field, the changes show up in Changed By, I think
[11:17] <cartel_> LaserJock: no Changed-By in apt-cache show
[11:17] <crimsun> because there hasn't been any consensus in Debian about what to do for derivatives' Maintainer fields, it hasn't been changed in Ubuntu. See flamewars on debian-devel from earlier this yera.
[11:17] <LaserJock> cartel_: it isn't there, but the source package has it
[11:20] <cartel_> heh
[11:20] <cartel_> lame
[11:24] <LaserJock> cartel_: well, currently there isn't a mechanism to seperate the maintainance other than Maintainer and Changed By
[11:24] <LaserJock> I don't think anyway
[11:24] <\sh> ok guys...good night ....
[11:25] <cartel_> LaserJock: surely the Maintainer field should just be updated to reflect the new maintainer
[11:26] <LaserJock> cartel_: but I think the point is that there isn't a new maintainer exactly
[11:26] <LaserJock> cartel_: so it gets a little messy
[11:27] <wasabi> I like how reviews about Ubuntu and stuff talk about how much "faster" it is than Distro X.
[11:27] <wasabi> Or slower.
[11:30] <cartel_> wasabi: it's quite noticable
[11:31] <wasabi> What is?
[11:32] <cartel_> wasabi: try installing ubuntu on a box next to, say, suse 10
[11:51] <mikael> Hi, I am trying to use the clock_getres() function but gcc complains about "undefined reference to clock_getres()"; gcc -E test.c shows that the functions are defined but still the linker doesn't find them I am using the most recent dapper you can get
[11:58] <jdong> is spinning down the hd once every 5 seconds good for the motor???


[09:44] <ecobos> Hey
[09:44] <ecobos> I wanted to file a bug, but I can't log in into launchpad. I just created the account but I get an OOPS when logging in
[09:45] <ecobos> > If you report this as a bug, please include the error ID below, preferably by copying and pasting it rather than by taking a screenshot.
[09:45] <ecobos> > (Error ID: OOPS-524e67e5e11f1bfcfa1fa02c94a94c62)
[09:46] <cjwatson> guruprasad: ^
[09:46] <guruprasad> ecobos, cjwatson, checking this now.
[09:48] <ecobos> thanks!
[09:48] <ecobos> For the record, I'm trying to login from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+filebug
[09:49] <ecobos> Confirmed it isn't browser specific or anything like that
[09:56] <guruprasad> ecobos, you ran into this error because a Launchpad account was automatically created for your email address when importing comments from Mozilla Bugzilla. I am merging that account into the account that you have created now. Once that is done, you will be able to log in without any issues.
[09:57] <ecobos> Oh, interesting
[09:57] <ecobos> guruprasad: thank you!
[09:58] <ecobos> no wonder my naive attempts to remove unicode characters from my name didn't work lol ;)
[10:01] <guruprasad> ecobos, the merge is completed. Can you try logging in again now and let me know if it worked?
[10:02] <ecobos> guruprasad: it did, thanks!
[10:02] <guruprasad> ecobos, you are welcome :)
[10:09] <ecobos> Yay, bug filed (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1969606). Thanks for the quick turnaround again guruprasad :)


[06:57] <nisshh> hey guys
[06:57] <nisshh> whats up?
[06:58] <nisshh> <.< bad timing :)
[07:02] <nisshh> whoever see's this first: ive come back after ages away to help out once again
[12:24] <rigved> hi everyone.
[12:24] <rigved> i heard that the ubuntu manual project needs help to get the oneiric version out on time.
[12:32] <rigved> i have already sent an e-mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with all the required details.
[12:40] <jeyanthan> Hi Team, just got a mail fwd from my friend from Ubuntu manual stating that you are in need of volunteers !
[12:49] <jeyanthan> I was expecting if there is a better way to file as a volunteer instead of mailing to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>.. something like filling a form ?
[14:36] <c7p> hey nisshh
[14:58] <nisshh> c7p, hey dude
[14:59] <c7p> WHAT'S UP ?
[14:59]  * c7p sorry for caps
[15:17] <nisshh> c7p, not much dude, just life is finally falling into place for me, so i finally have a bit of time to come back and contribute to the manual
[15:17] <c7p> i'm happy for you :D
[15:17] <nisshh> thanks :)
[15:18] <c7p> you were chapter author ?
[15:18] <nisshh> yeah
[15:18] <nisshh> original auther of the cmd chapter
[15:18] <c7p> on which chapter ?
[15:18] <c7p> ah yeah
[15:18] <nisshh> but im happy to do whatever now
[15:18] <nisshh> editing would suite me
[15:18] <c7p> great
[15:19] <c7p> could you manage troubleshooting chapter ?
[15:19] <nisshh> maybe
[15:19] <nisshh> ill have a look first
[15:19] <c7p> ok
[15:19] <nisshh> i really need some sleep right now though
[15:19] <nisshh> ill catch you tomorrow though
[15:19] <c7p> no problem
[15:20] <nisshh> is the main branch still at lp:ubuntu-manual?
[15:20] <c7p> you may contact me
[15:20] <nisshh> cool
[15:20] <c7p> yap
[15:20] <nisshh> sweet, ill check it out tomorrow after work
[15:20] <c7p> thanks :D
[15:20] <nisshh> np
[15:21] <nisshh> im still subscribed to the ML and everything too
[15:21] <nisshh> gnight
[15:23] <c7p> goodnight
[16:14] <c7p> hey godbyk
[22:59] <tomswartz07> hey everyone
[23:00] <c7p> hey tomswartz07
[23:00] <tomswartz07> ive been following the Ubuntu Manual project ever since Ben started it a few years ago, mostly idly watching from the side with its developments and reading up on the mailing lists.
[23:01] <tomswartz07> long story short, i see that this past release has been delayed- and i was wondering what i may be able to do to help
[23:01] <tomswartz07> im no major expert with LaTeX, but i can certainly hold my own
[23:02] <tomswartz07> any ideas on something that I could jump in and help with?
[23:02] <c7p> hm wanna become an author ?
[23:03] <c7p> actually you could help and in another way
[23:03] <tomswartz07> whats that?
[23:04] <c7p> you said that you know basics of latex right ?
[23:04] <c7p> e.g identifying code
[23:04] <tomswartz07> you bet. used it for about 2 dozen physics lab reports
[23:04] <c7p> and understanding syntax
[23:05] <c7p> hehe i guess you are an expert in contrast with me :P
[23:05] <c7p> on this release new authors will write their sections in odts
[23:05] <tomswartz07> haha, hey, dont be modest here. it was mostly copy-pasta the template i made up
[23:05] <c7p> so we need some people to convert odt to latex
[23:06] <godbyk> tomswartz07: For the Oneiric edition, we're going to let the authors write their text in whatever format they like (e.g., LibreOffice or plain text) and we'll have a small group of people who convert that (by hand) to LaTeX.
[23:06] <c7p> i know only latex tags that project uses, nothing more
[23:06]  * c7p thx Kevin :)
[23:06] <godbyk> You can find a list of the LaTeX commands we're using in our style guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[23:07] <godbyk> (The style guide needs to be updated at some point, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. So if you have any questions about any of it or if you think something's missing, feel free to pester me about it.)
[23:07] <tomswartz07> ok, cool. so its mostly just a copy-paste kind of deal, so long as the commands are right?
[23:08] <godbyk> tomswartz07: Yeah, you'd be copying and pasting their text and then formatting it using our LaTeX commands.
[23:08] <tomswartz07> mmmm, syntax formatting.
[23:09]  * tomswartz07 *tab tab tab*
[23:10] <godbyk> tomswartz07: It's glamorous work, let me tell ya! ;-)
[23:11] <tomswartz07> between you and I, i broke a keyboard at work because i hit the tab key too many times while updating the formatting syntax on their website.
[23:12] <godbyk> tomswartz07: Ha! I won't tell, I promise.  Handily, we don't have much tab-indenting in our LaTeX code.
[23:12] <godbyk> Lots of backslashes and curly braces, though. :)
[23:12] <tomswartz07> haha. well, thats good. :P
[23:14] <c7p> Tom, do you want to become an author of a chapter section ?
[23:15] <tomswartz07> Im up for whatever you think you need the most help with.
[23:16] <c7p> currently we need authors to write material
[23:16] <tomswartz07> well then, im up for it :)
[23:16] <c7p> after writing we will need editors and latex guys like you :P
[23:16] <c7p> cool
[23:17] <c7p> do you use gwibber or empathy ?
[23:17] <tomswartz07> used to- havent done so recently. Is that what the topics are on?
[23:18] <c7p> yes there are sections covering these applications
[23:18] <c7p> let me tell you available sections
[23:18] <c7p> Setting Ubuntu One
[23:18] <c7p> Ubuntu One preferences
[23:18] <c7p> Watching videos and movies (covers Totem)
[23:19] <c7p> Using instant messaging (covers Empathy)
[23:19] <c7p> Microblogging (covers Gwibber)
[23:19] <c7p> Getting online (covers Mozilla Firefox)
[23:19] <c7p> Customizing your Desktop (covering Appearance)
[23:19] <c7p> and Troubleshooting chapter sections
[23:20] <c7p> let me know what sections of the above do you prefer, if you want to contribute as author
[23:20] <tomswartz07> well, i can't do totem (it wont work on my dvi monitor, and i was never able to figure out why)
[23:21] <tomswartz07> i would, however be interested in either Customizing your Desktop, or Instant Messaging.
[23:21] <tomswartz07> they seem like fairly straightforward topics
[23:22] <c7p> good :)
[23:22] <c7p> what version of ubuntu do you use ?
[23:23]  * c7p silly questions :P
[23:23] <tomswartz07> haha, im on 11.04
[23:24] <c7p> nice, 11.04 has the mail indicator right ?
[23:24] <tomswartz07> you betcha
[23:26] <c7p> ok i guess you can take IM section
[23:27] <c7p> with the condition to work on 11.10 when testing empathy :P
[23:28] <tomswartz07> sure- i was actually thinking of flipping up to 11.10 this coming weekend anyway. haha
[23:28] <c7p> hehe
[23:28] <c7p> cool so from now on i call you author :
[23:28] <c7p> :P
[23:29] <tomswartz07> well, this is pretty awesome!
[23:29] <c7p> again a silly question, how many hours in average can you spend on this section per week ?
[23:30] <tomswartz07> hm, well i suppose i could set aside an hour or so each night- so 7 or 8 hours per week?
[23:31] <c7p> neat :D
[23:31] <tomswartz07> i could do more, if you think it might help?
[23:31] <c7p> no no
[23:31] <c7p> the first thing that you must have in mind is to enjoy contributing
[23:32] <c7p> extra hours that are tiring won
[23:32] <c7p> t help essentially
[23:32] <tomswartz07> haha ok
[23:34] <c7p> author have you tested our bzr branch in the past ?
[23:34] <tomswartz07> a long time ago, not since ben stepped down
[23:35] <c7p> ok
[23:35] <tomswartz07> its not that big of a deal to bzr pull the branch though
[23:36] <c7p> i just wanted to know if you would use bzr to push your work or the new system with odt files that new authors will use
[23:37] <c7p> so bzr works for you ?
[23:37] <tomswartz07> yeah, i have experience using bzr for some of my own code projects
[23:38] <c7p> cool
[23:38] <c7p> let me know if you need anything
[23:39] <tomswartz07> ok- i have a few questions, though.
[23:39] <c7p> fire them away
[23:41] <tomswartz07> okay, so Im doing the IM section, testing on 11.10, and writing up content similar to the editions in the past. Are there any specifics that I should cover (other than just general use), or is it just open-ended?
[23:42] <tomswartz07> because ive never actually contributed, i tended to just skim over any communications that covered the topic.
[23:43] <c7p> you may browse the 10.10 book to see how authors write things, it's not big deal
[23:44] <c7p> as an author you are free to add new subsections or remove existings
[23:44] <c7p> you choose this
[23:44] <tomswartz07> ok. i wasnt sure if there was a set methodolgy that you folks stuck to.
[23:45] <c7p> no, no methology. you must only have in mind that the section you are working on should be understood from beginners, and shouldn't be too shot neither too long
[23:46] <c7p> by beginners i mean users that have previous experience with computers
[23:46] <tomswartz07> novices, i guess the term would be?
[23:46] <c7p> i'm not a native speaker, but i guess that's a better term "novices"
[23:47] <c7p> anything else ?
[23:48] <tomswartz07> one last- how much do you depend on the odt formatting for the writeups? I figure, because I am familiar with latex, its not that big of a problem to compose it already in the latex format
[23:49] <tomswartz07> if it will screw up all of the works, however, then its not that big of a deal- i just thought it might be able to save some work in the long run
[23:52] <c7p> writeups ?
[23:53]  * c7p my engilsh aren't so good
[23:53] <tomswartz07> the section that i am writing- sorry! :x
[23:55] <godbyk> tomswartz07: You can write it directly in LaTeX if you like.
[23:55] <godbyk> We're just offering the ODT option to authors who aren't familiar with LaTeX (and don't want to learn it).
[23:56] <tomswartz07> ah, i understand now.
[23:56] <godbyk> If you run 'make' to build the PDF (and ensure you didn't break anything) before committing, then it's perfectly fine to edit the .tex files directly.
[23:57] <tomswartz07> godbyk: 'make'? im guessing that this is more involved than a simple pdflatex compile, correct?


[01:02] <Budgie^Smore> I just found the "inspiration" for hardening maas once I have my cluster bootstrapped :)
[01:13] <stormmore> ok that feels better... weird how not having a tool really puts you off your game
[01:39] <stormmore> hey lazyPower have you seen the ATT Community Development github repos?
[08:01] <ybaumy> hi. im trying to deploy openstack with juju charms which creates containers inside containers. but somehow the permissions are not inherited
[08:01] <ybaumy> im using xenial
[08:03] <ybaumy> show-machine says for the containers that creating container: failed to change ownership of /var/lib/lxd/containers/juju.../rootfs
[08:24] <ybaumy> i set security.nesting to true but that doesnt change the behaviour
[09:06] <lazyPower> ybaumy: are you using zfs pools?
[10:01] <ybaumy> lazyPower: no
[10:32] <ybaumy> i filled a bug report to see what the devs says to this
[13:57] <ybaumy> so i read i had to do an lxd init to correctly inherit permission from the parent container. i thought maybe i could trick the deployment in setting up the machines manually and then starting the deploy process. but the deploy just created new machines and didnt use the ones i setup
[13:57] <ybaumy> so same result
[13:59] <ybaumy> there is a -to parameter for deploy but i dont know how to say .. like use machine from o1-5
[14:01] <ybaumy> does anyone know how to bind bundles to a set of machines?
[14:06] <ybaumy> is there somebody online from the devs in my timezone?
[14:06] <ybaumy> which is CET
[15:13] <rick_h> ybaumy: bundles don't support existing machines as that makes them not a reusable model.
[15:14] <rick_h> ybaumy: there's a feature item to make that part of the deploy command so you can map the machines in a bundle to existing machines in a clean wau
[15:14] <rick_h> way
[15:14] <rick_h> But it's not available yet
[15:25] <ybaumy> rick_h: can you explain me if its a bug that permissions are not correctly inherited in a container->container model
[15:26] <rick_h> Permissions of what?
[15:26] <rick_h> ybaumy: ^
[15:26] <ybaumy> show-machine says for the containers that creating container: failed to change ownership of /var/lib/lxd/containers/juju.../rootfs
[15:26] <ybaumy> like 0/lxd/0
[15:27] <ybaumy> thats the problem im having
[15:27] <rick_h> ybaumy: out of the box juju does not support nested containers with the default lxd profile. Doing so is a security concern. Lxd ships a a different profile for that use case.
[15:27] <ybaumy> rick_h: so what can i do?
[15:28] <rick_h> ybaumy: I know conjure-up and the lxd on OpenStack work (novalxd) do some updates to the profile to work.
[15:28] <ybaumy> rick_h: i got conjure-up working but i wanted to try juju deploy
[15:29] <ybaumy> rick_h: but i can live with that ... if there is no way
[15:29] <rick_h> ybaumy: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/12/07/lxd-2-0-lxd-and-openstack-1112/ and some other notes with the OpenStack bundles/etc have some instructions
[15:30] <rick_h> https://github.com/openstack-charmers/openstack-on-lxd/blob/master/README.md
[15:30] <rick_h> ybaumy: I'd check out ^ as that comes from the team working on those OpenStack charms
[15:31] <ybaumy> rick_h: ok i will. thanks for the links.
[15:31] <rick_h> ybaumy: good luck
[15:31] <ybaumy> thx
[16:31] <ybaumy> im now trying vmware + juju lets see how to deploy openstack there
[16:43] <ybaumy> rick_h: this looks much better ... no permission problems here. i should have tried that in the first place
[16:53] <ybaumy> but too bad. the install hooks are exiting with error
[16:53] <ybaumy> i guess i have to manually roll it out
[16:59] <rick_h> ybaumy: what's the install hook errors?
[17:05] <ybaumy> rick_h: i checked one server and it says in the machine.log in /var/log/juju that no kvm containers are possible
[17:05] <ybaumy> rick_h: it then exits with 1
[17:07] <ybaumy> that was on node 0 .. on node 1 i see the same message but also lxd init messages
[17:08] <ybaumy> rick_h: its not possible in this state to run lxd init. which i understand since a lxd instance is already running
[17:12] <ybaumy> i get the KVM message on every node
[17:15] <ybaumy> btw im using xenial stable... should i switch to beta?


[05:51] <pleia2> philipballew: did we get any hats in the scale conference pack?
[05:52] <philipballew> pleia2, no we did not :(
[05:52] <pleia2> bkerensa: ^^
[05:52] <pleia2> so it looks like they changed up the packs recently, no more hats :(
[05:52] <philipballew> 4 shirts, some buttons, and some stickers iirc.
[05:52] <pleia2> I was all "oh yeah, they're still there" /lies
[05:53] <philipballew> pleia2, whats up with our old banner from before we got the approved one?
[05:53] <pleia2> philipballew: it's in my closet
[05:53] <pleia2> I picked it up from mpaoli a couple weeks ago
[05:53] <pleia2> (he brought it to the last sf ubuntu hour)
[05:54] <philipballew> pleia2, I see! probably good we have a banner in both parts of the state just in case someone needs one in a hurry.
[05:54] <pleia2> philipballew: yeah, I'm actually checking with canonical to see if we can buy a second one from them
[05:55] <pleia2> would probably end up cheaper than me shipping it all over the place all the time :\
[05:55] <philipballew> pleia2, how much would that costs us?
[05:55] <pleia2> it's like $10-15 each time
[05:55] <pleia2> not sure, they're looking into it for me
[05:55] <philipballew> pleia2, I saw the shipping label when you shipped it to ib.
[05:55] <pleia2> I think that was the cheapest one since it wasn't a rush :)
[05:56] <pleia2> still like $8-something I think?
[05:56] <philipballew> something like that yeah.
[05:56] <pleia2> to be honest the old banner is really too old to be used
[05:56] <pleia2> unless we're trying to be funny :)
[05:57] <pleia2> retro ubuntu booth!
[05:57] <philipballew> pleia2, If you ever need to get rid of it, let me know and ill use it for the san diego stuff. But I am sure we can find some use maybe?
[05:57] <pleia2> yeah
[05:57] <philipballew> Maybe a dance mat?
[05:57] <pleia2> hehe
[05:58] <pleia2> we've used it as a 2nd banner for some booths
[05:58] <pleia2> like solano stroll
[05:58] <philipballew> I or someone could use it for a google hangout background maybe.
[05:58] <pleia2> it was on the outside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6138397951/in/set-72157627650086116
[05:58] <darthrobot`> Title: [IMG_1699 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
[05:58] <pleia2> inside was new one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6138397205/in/set-72157627650086116/
[05:58] <darthrobot`> Title: [IMG_1696 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
[05:59] <pleia2> "hide my messy office!"
[05:59] <philipballew> your office looks nice!
[05:59] <pleia2> yeah, my favorite part about my office is the mac in the background
[05:59] <pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/032013/leadership_hangout_0319.jpg
[05:59] <darthrobot`> Content type: [image/jpeg] Size: [184782]
[06:00] <philipballew> Way to be a hipster with your mac pleia2
[06:00] <philipballew> :)
[06:00] <pleia2> I actually did clean up that filing cabinet after that hangout :)
[06:00] <pleia2> still has a mac on it though
[06:00] <pleia2> (sadly, nothing else to sync my fitbit with)
[06:01] <philipballew> Read something from Leigh about that last week or so.
[06:01] <philipballew> They look interesting.
[06:02] <pleia2> it's silly, but it works for me
[06:03] <pleia2> 1.43 miles traveled today
[06:03] <pleia2> I haven't left my condo
[06:03] <pleia2> haha
[06:03] <pleia2> that's a lot of wandering around home!
[06:04] <philipballew> You usually work outside right pleia2 ?
[06:04] <pleia2> I try for 2-3 hours on days when it's warm enough
[06:05] <pleia2> not today, too cold, not sunny
[06:05] <philipballew> pleia2, oh nice, gotta get that wedding tan because sf is a great place to tan?
[06:05] <pleia2> my tan situation is a mess :) my maid of honor is going to freak
[06:06] <pleia2> I have a wicked farmer's tan!
[06:06] <pleia2> so smart for my sleeveless dress
[06:06] <philipballew> s/wicked/hella
[06:06] <pleia2> hella wicked
[06:07] <pleia2> there, maine and california :)
[06:07] <philipballew> do you like your dress though?
[06:07] <pleia2> love it
[06:07]  * pleia2 princess
[06:07] <pleia2> :)
[06:07] <philipballew> thats cool. So where are you going after the wedding?
[06:07] <pleia2> mexico!
[06:08] <philipballew> Hey! Thats hella cool. What part?
[06:08] <pleia2> yucatan peninsula, doing the resort thing for a week, then exploring some mayan ruins for a week
[06:09] <philipballew> oh nice, that sounds good. I am gonna fly down there in June for a month. (think I said that to you earlier). I'm sure your gonna be really excited to take a break from life on the Honeymoon.
[06:10] <pleia2> yeah, we talked about your trip :)
[06:10] <pleia2> very excited, it's been a long.. year
[06:10] <philipballew> For sure, You gonna ply there from Philly?
[06:11] <pleia2> yep
[06:11]  * philipballew remembers where pleia2 is getting married.
[06:11] <pleia2> gold star!
[06:12] <philipballew> If only.You seem to have been tired a lot lately. Hope you can get away from the Internet/work and stuff.
[06:12] <pleia2> yeah, I have :\
[06:13] <pleia2> new job + wedding planning + ubuntu dramaz
[06:13] <philipballew> Ubuntu is back on track though, and your wedding is gonna be great!
[06:13] <pleia2> that's what I'm saying :)
[06:13] <philipballew> at least you get to travel with your job!
[06:14] <pleia2> yeah, I love my job
[06:14] <philipballew> I assume your gonna live tweet your wedding?
[06:14] <pleia2> haha, doubtful
[06:15] <philipballew> lol, I have a lot of friends here who have live streamed their wedding so school friends to poor to fly there can see. I did it once, but it was kinda weird.
[06:15] <pleia2> going pretty traditional with the wedding stuff
[06:15] <pleia2> we'll have a videographer though, so if it's not horrible and/or boring it may be shareable
[06:16] <philipballew> Traditional weddings are nice because they can be "low key"
[06:16] <pleia2> yeah, no surprises :)
[06:17] <philipballew> I have a good friend getting married in Pennsylvania in May as well. Pittsburgh though, so not anything like Philly. Hope you have a nice time!
[06:20] <pleia2> thanks!
[07:54] <bkerensa> epic fail
[07:54] <bkerensa> im awake for no reason :(
[07:54]  * bkerensa blames UTC
[08:01] <philipballew> bkerensa, Sleep is overrated