[06:17] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[06:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Dec 02:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 03:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 23:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 07:00: Technical Board | 21 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu
[06:18] <nixternal> heh
[06:19] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[06:19] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Dec 09:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 10:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 06:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 14:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 14:00: Edubuntu
[06:19] <nixternal> lovely, means i have to set an alarm on my off week ;(
[06:21] <Hobbsee> those seem relatively sane for you
[11:43] <zarul[brb] > the meeting will be about 6 hours from now Am I right?
[11:46] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 12 Dec 16:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 17:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 21:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 21:00: Edubuntu
[12:06] <zarul[brb] > @schedule kuala lumpur
[12:06] <zarul[brb] > @schedule kuala_lumpur
[12:06] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Kuala_Lumpur: 12 Dec 23:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 00:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 04:00: Technical Board | 21 Dec 04:00: Edubuntu
[12:08] <fernando> @schedule brazil
[12:08] <fernando> :P
[12:10] <fernando> @schedule sao_paulo
[12:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 12 Dec 13:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 14:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 10:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 18:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 18:00: Edubuntu
[12:24] <gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 12 Dec 10:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 11:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 15:00: Edubuntu
[12:34] <cbx33> hi who's going to be at the meeting later?
[12:35] <Hobbsee> cbx33: green aliens?
[12:35] <cbx33> eh
[12:35] <cbx33> heh
[12:35] <cbx33> I need to give my support for someones membership application to someone
[12:36] <Hobbsee> is there a<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:36] <Hobbsee> or something?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> there is for the tech board
[12:36] <cbx33> hmmm not sure
[12:36] <cjwatson><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:37] <cbx33> thanks
[12:37] <GazzaK> @schedule london
[12:37] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 12 Dec 15:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 20:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu
[12:37] <GazzaK> 4pm - woo
[12:37] <cjwatson> you're welcome to mail comments there
[12:38] <cbx33> thanks cjwatson
[12:39] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Do you have any idea whether membership applications will be considered this time around, and if not, when they may?
[12:40] <cjwatson> I imagine they will, but I've retired from the CC so I'm trying not to think about it too much (though I'll still have to be there this time because the nominations haven't been done yet)
[12:41] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: who are the CC people now?  when are they decided?
[12:41] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: All right, I'll still try to be present (and awake) then.  Sev suggested they likely wouldn't b/c of the length of the agenda.
[12:41] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: since the nominations haven't happened yet, I do not know
[12:41] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: Seveas is not (yet?) on the CC
[12:41] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: No, but is closer connected than myself ;)
[12:42] <cjwatson> it's possible we might only get through some of the members, but I think it would be a bad idea to skip them altogether
[12:42] <tonyyarusso> Agreed
[12:43] <tonyyarusso> Do you know if they're still doing the "paste an introduction into the channel" format, or just linking to LP and wiki pages?
[12:43] <tonyyarusso> (Sorry for the slew of questions, I have a tendency to latch onto people who are "in the know" when I find them at times.)
[12:51] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: I don't know
[12:51] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Okay, thanks anyway!
[12:51] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: it would be best not to do that with me with respect to the CC
[12:52] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Because you're term is up or am I being annoying?
[12:53] <cjwatson> the former
[12:53] <cjwatson> I'm just a lame duck CC member :)
[12:54] <GazzaK> quack quack
[12:54] <tonyyarusso> Fair enough :)
[12:54] <tonyyarusso> lol GazzaK
[12:54] <GazzaK> (sorry had to)
[12:59] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: the new member process is part of todays agenda but as it stands i believe the paste your intro is still happening until it is decided what the new process will be
[12:59] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Roger that
[01:00] <MehdiHassanpour> .
[01:49] <tonyyarusso> @schedule toronto
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 12 Dec 10:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 11:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 15:00: Edubuntu
[02:20] <BlueT_> @schedule
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Dec 15:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 20:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu
[02:21] <BlueT_> @schedule taipei
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 12 Dec 23:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 00:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 04:00: Technical Board | 21 Dec 04:00: Edubuntu
[02:24] <Seveaz> gnomefreak: definitely not all members
[02:25] <Seveaz> gnomefreak: also note that the new member procedure is changing and may be changed retroactively for current candidates
[03:10] <zul> @schedule montreal
[03:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 12 Dec 10:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 11:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 15:00: Edubuntu
[03:11] <beuno> @schedule argentina
[03:11] <effie_jayx> beuno try buenos aires
[03:11] <beuno> @schedule buenos aires
[03:11] <beuno> @schedule buenos_aires
[03:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: 12 Dec 12:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 13:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 09:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 17:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 17:00: Edubuntu
[03:11] <beuno> ;)
[03:12] <beuno> good, I got the time right
[03:15] <effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
[03:15] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 12 Dec 11:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 12:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 08:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 16:00: Technical Board | 20 Dec 16:00: Edubuntu
[03:44] <zarul> so when is the meeting gonna start?
[03:44] <apokryphos> zarul: see /topic
[03:44] <apokryphos> 16:00 UTC
[03:44] <dinda> 16 minutes
[03:45] <cjwatson> no, use 'date -u' to find out the current UTC time
[03:45] <cjwatson> you're an hour off
[03:45] <zarul> lol
[03:45] <Ma1kel> utc = gmt +2?
[03:46] <cjwatson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC
[03:46] <zarul> god, it's late at night here, gotta to wake up early tomorrow, I wish the meeting will be 3-4 hours earlier, will be easier for Asian people like me
[03:47] <zarul> gmt and gmc is not much different
[03:47] <zarul> *gmc/UTC
[03:48] <Ma1kel> Time zones around the world are expressed as positive or negative offsets from UTC. In this role, UTC is also referred to as Zulu time (Z) (see Time zones below). UTC is often referred to as Greenwich Mean Time when describing time zones, although strictly UTC's atomic time scale is only approximately the same as GMT.
[03:50] <Ma1kel> was the loco teams meeting cancelled?
[03:51] <BlueT_> zarul: agree with you, but there're many people doesn't live at Asia. (i'm form taiwan, it's 22:51 here ToT)
[03:51] <zarul> I hope CC meeting start earlier them....
[03:51] <zarul> *then
[03:52] <apokryphos> it won't, no
[03:52] <zarul> yeah...or perhaps the council can do something like, having someone to handle the asian session..
[03:53] <BlueT_> zarul: haha, but it's a globle meeting
[03:53] <zarul> yeah
[03:58] <BlueT_> 2 minutes later
[04:00] <Seveaz> jono!
[04:00] <jono> heya sevea
[04:00] <jono> heya Seveaz
[04:00] <BlueT_> Seveaz: y0
[04:01] <Seveaz> how about a meeting ;)
[04:03] <BlueT_> Seveaz: waiting for someone to start
[04:03] <Seveaz> BlueT_: that's why I jelled at jono
[04:03] <Seveaz> He's the community master
[04:03] <Seveaz> hey ryan!
[04:04] <ubuntugeek> hey hows it going
[04:04] <nixternal> oy
[04:05] <Seveaz> ola
[04:05] <beuno> hey ubuntugeek, I'm Martin, from the Argentina LoCo
[04:05] <jono> ok
[04:05] <effie_jayx> beuno,  :D
[04:05] <jono> sorry, was delayed
[04:05] <jono> so, who is here for the meeting?
[04:05] <ubuntugeek> hey martin, hows the forum working out
[04:05] <zarul> me
[04:05] <morgs> me too
[04:05] <Seveaz> me (as spectator)
[04:06] <dinda> dinda, aka Belinda from Texas and Ubuntu Women
[04:06] <looksaus> me
[04:06] <ubuntugeek> me as me
[04:06] <jono> cool
[04:06] <BlueT_> me
[04:06] <beuno> great, seems it's the most active LoCo on there by far, everyone es pretty happy about having a spanish forum
[04:06] <beuno> me
[04:06] <effie_jayx> me
[04:06] <jono> is joey here?
[04:06] <imtheface> hi all
[04:06] <ubuntugeek> Great, i am pretty pleased how well the loco forums are doing there.
[04:06] <effie_jayx> Efrain Valles for the Venezuela Team
[04:06] <morgs> Morgan Collett for the South African Team
[04:07] <jono> seems joey is not around
[04:07] <mruiz> Miguel Ruiz -> Chilean Team
[04:07] <beuno> we're pleased too  ;D    -  I might take a few minutes of our time later if you can spare it about a small bug on the tagging system
[04:07] <ubuntugeek> sure no problem..
[04:07] <jono> ok, who suggested the loco communications item?
[04:07] <effie_jayx> ME
[04:08] <looksaus> jono, before we start, it might be interesting to to make a summary of what was discussed (either through gobby or one volunteer)
[04:08] <jono> looksaus: this meeting is logged
[04:08] <looksaus> something that can be easily digested by al locoteams list readers...
[04:08] <jono> if someone wants to summarise it, that would be great
[04:08] <beuno> I can right it up in spanish and english
[04:08] <looksaus> beuno, that would be splendid!
[04:08] <jono> in fact, it would be awesome to have regular meeting summaries posted to loco-contacts after each meeting
[04:08] <jono> thanks beuno
[04:08] <beuno> np
[04:09] <jono> so, loco communication
[04:09] <jono> who added that?
[04:09] <effie_jayx> me
[04:09] <effie_jayx> I added InterloCo comunication
[04:09] <jono> what do you mean by that effie_jayx?
[04:10] <effie_jayx> ok... to avodi fragmnetation... I think more contact from other loCo within a region is a good way
[04:10] <jono> right, so what kind of region?
[04:10] <effie_jayx> jono,  lok at south america
[04:10] <jono> in a country? in a continent?
[04:10] <mruiz> for example, comunication between latin american LoCo
[04:10] <effie_jayx> ajam
[04:10] <looksaus> you mean because of the language barrier?
[04:10] <mruiz> yes
[04:10] <beuno> same speaking language LoCo's would be a good example
[04:11] <looksaus> (towards using the EN speaking list)
[04:11] <jono> there has been some discussion about uniting loco teams at a language level as well as a country level
[04:11] <beuno> they might tend to duplicate translation efforts
[04:11] <jono> the difficult thing here is that there is no single rule we can apply for how things are divided up
[04:12] <jono> for example, in the US, it makes sense to divide things at a state level
[04:12] <jono> but it would not make sense to divide the UK at a country level for example
[04:12] <effie_jayx> sure but as a whole latin america is a big group of peope...
[04:12] <effie_jayx> and in the past week
[04:12] <beuno> maybe some centralized place wher everyone can put what they're working on
[04:12] <beuno> and what they've done
[04:13] <effie_jayx> the teams have joined in a very nice way but without folloing a blueprint or previous experience
[04:13] <looksaus> there is of course a real danger of fragmentation in the sense of
[04:13] <BlueT_> beuno: sounds nice
[04:13] <looksaus> spanish speaking teams growing into a kind of isle
[04:13] <beuno> that way before starting a proyect you can check out if someone is already puruing it, and help them out
[04:13] <looksaus> that doesn't communicate enough with the non-spanish speaking world
[04:14] <effie_jayx> looksaus interesting that you mention
[04:14] <looksaus> how would you stimulate these teams to communicate with the rest of the world?
[04:14] <effie_jayx> I am new to the loCo team work
[04:14] <beuno> that would be a great idea, group LoCo's by language and have some sort of intercomunication between them, someone willing to translate what's going on
[04:14] <effie_jayx> and I am here representing my loco
[04:14] <mruiz> these are latin america teams: Argentina, Bolivia, Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Espan~a, Mexico, Peru, Venezuela
[04:15] <beuno> but also, Spain, which happens to be in a different continent
[04:15] <effie_jayx> when I brought the question to jono
[04:15] <jono> so how do we think we can improve communication?
[04:15] <jono>  it seems to me that geographically close teams should start out be just engaging in communication
[04:15] <nejode> i'm with you effie_jayx
[04:16] <effie_jayx> jono,  we need to follow a path to better communication within ourselves (loco teams in lat america)
[04:16] <effie_jayx> and we turned to you to ask if there is a
[04:16] <jono> effie_jayx: how many teams are in latin america?
[04:16] <effie_jayx> aprecendet...
[04:16] <effie_jayx> around 11
[04:17] <effie_jayx> and we need to keep ourselves oriented to what the loCo's in europe are doing
[04:17] <looksaus> effie_jayx, would it make sense to create comm infrastructure based upon common language, rather than geography?
[04:17] <jono> right, so there 11 teams in the same refion?
[04:17] <jono> region
[04:17] <looksaus> because that seems to be the barrier not to participate directly in the general loco list right?
[04:18] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  part of it... yes...
[04:18] <beuno> I agree, language is the barrier, not geographical location
[04:18] <jono> yes
[04:18] <BlueT_> agree
[04:18] <jono> the real key here is language
[04:19] <beuno> I count 8 LoCo teams listed that speak spanish
[04:19] <mruiz> the main idea is to coordinate between latin american LoCo
[04:19] <jono> I think we need to think of ways in which we can unite similar languages but maintain their own location
[04:19] <beuno> spanish-speaking LoCo's  ;D
[04:19] <jono> we don't want language connections to fragement the general community though
[04:20] <looksaus> jono, maybe if you remember the discussion we had last week
[04:20] <looksaus> we can grab some solution from there
[04:20] <beuno> jono, that's why I think maybe we can have ppl in charge of comunicating to the other languages
[04:20] <effie_jayx> jono, we want to help out send the message...
[04:20] <beuno> summing up every 2 weeks or something like that
[04:20] <effie_jayx> jono,  nejode and I come from the venezuela team...
[04:20] <effie_jayx> jono, and there ... people have just begun to discover all the LoCo team related stuff.
[04:21] <BlueT_> jono: just like ubuntu-zh includes ubuntu-tw, ubntu-cn and ubuntu-hk ?
[04:21] <effie_jayx> new vs arpoved and the benefits of being aproved
[04:21] <looksaus> like... if you create a mailing list for spanish speaking teams, add a header or footer to lure users to the main international list
[04:21] <beuno> I don't think that you *need* to have all spanish speaking ppl in one mailing list
[04:21] <effie_jayx> and the benefits of being talknig to people that have the same issues all around the world ... not to invent the wheel again
[04:22] <jono> sorry reading up
[04:22] <jono> I am in the office today, keep getting called
[04:22] <looksaus> beuno, I'm just suggesting how a communications channel between spanish speaking locoteams should be closely connected to the international one
[04:23] <beuno> looksaus, ooh, sorry
[04:23] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  most certainly ... we will look into ir
[04:23] <beuno> like have *regional* LoCo meetings
[04:23] <beuno> and then International
[04:23] <looksaus> there might be more ways than this header/footer idea for a mailing list
[04:23] <mruiz> time ago, I proposed my Spanish Planet Ubuntu idea (https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+ticket/1664) to improve comunication between latinamerican LoCo Teams
[04:23] <beuno> so one representative from each region (language) meet
[04:23] <looksaus> mruiz, very good idea!
[04:23] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  you are right... and I hope you can understand we want to all stay put to the international comunity
[04:24] <looksaus> of course, just thinking about ways to do so
[04:24] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  but not as 1 from chile ,, 2 from venezuela, 3 from argentina ) but as a group
[04:24] <jono> right
[04:24] <jono> so we need to divide this problem into the language and country level
[04:25] <jono> brb phone
[04:25] <effie_jayx> so we can better pass down the information that comes from the mothership (locoteams) :D
[04:25] <beuno> yes, sounds like the most reasonable
[04:25] <lophylap> oh, loco meeting.. damn, totally forgot about that one
[04:26] <effie_jayx> so
[04:26] <jono> back
[04:26] <zarul> lol
[04:27] <jono> backok
[04:27] <jono> I think there is a very obvious need for language connections
[04:27] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  I am really intereste in your insight and this is a question that came up 2 weeks a go in the LoCo teams presentaion by elkbuntu
[04:27] <jono> it makes sense for those with similar languages to work together
[04:27] <beuno> maybe all same speaking language teams vote for 1 representative among them
[04:27] <jono> but isnt that just a translation effort?
[04:27] <BlueT_> all the chinese language LoCo has already solved this problem :p
[04:28] <jono> BlueT_: how?
[04:28] <looksaus> i think not just a translation effort... lots of people don't have the skills to express themselves in EN
[04:28] <BlueT_> jono: we had aleady have our channel and mailing list
[04:28] <beuno> jono, part of the problem is translation, but part of it might be centralizing information (and this applies to all LoCo's)
[04:28] <jono> beuno: hang on a sec, centralising translated docs?
[04:28] <jono> or all docs?
[04:29] <BlueT_> jono: geo-depend problem are solved by LoCo channels and mailing lists
 maybe some centralized place wher everyone can put what they're working on
[04:29] <jono> beuno: thats the ubuntu wiki
[04:29] <effie_jayx> jono, ajam...
[04:29] <looksaus> beuno, and the locoteams mailing list
[04:29] <jono> and for generic loco documentation, that does in the loco knowledge base
[04:29] <jono> looksaus: indeed
[04:29] <BlueT_> jono: ubuntu-zh channel and mailing list are for all chanese LoCo
[04:29] <beuno> but is there somewhere I can go and see "ok, I'm not going to translate the CoC because the venezuela team already did"
[04:30] <BlueT_> jono: to solved language-depend problems
[04:30] <jono> beuno: nope, but this is more of a rosetta problem
[04:30] <jono> I don't think we can solve this at a policy level
[04:30] <looksaus> jono, the problem is getting those who are not comfortable speaking/reading EN to see what happens in the rest of the world
[04:30] <jono> it is indeed a problem, but I think we need to feed more content through rosetta and allow loco teams to subscribe to languages
[04:30] <looksaus> and to push out what happens in theirs
[04:30] <effie_jayx> jono,  at the same time it is our issue... cuz my Loco
[04:31] <jono> looksaus: I understand, and I agree
[04:31] <beuno> well, at a policy level what I think might solve it is having "regional" (language) meetings, and have 1 or 2 ppl represent them in international meetings
[04:31] <beuno> defeating the language barrier
[04:31] <looksaus> beuno, we're too much a volunteer group to rely on that
[04:31] <jono> looksaus: but then again, why would a french speaker in canada care about what is happening in france?
[04:31] <mruiz> bueno, in Chilean Wiki we have the spanish CoC
[04:32] <beuno> mruiz, http://www.uluga.com.ar/wiki/CoC
[04:32] <beuno> ;D
[04:32] <beuno> see what I mean
[04:32] <looksaus> jono, because it might actually be a very good idea that is also interesting to someone in Denmark
[04:32] <BlueT_> jono: it had been worked for a year :)
[04:32] <mruiz> bueno, http://wiki.ubuntu-cl.org/FirmandoElCodigoDeConductaComo
[04:32] <jono> looksaus: I think this is too big a problem to solve with an open process like we have - there is no way to update locos of interest with informaton that is specific to a particular context
[04:32] <jono> unless I am not understanding the problem?
[04:33] <jono> BlueT_: what has? explain what you did
[04:33] <effie_jayx> jono, the proble goes beyond the language...
[04:33] <BlueT_> 23:29 < BlueT_> jono: geo-depend problem are solved by LoCo channels and mailing lists
[04:33] <BlueT_> 23:29 < BlueT_> jono: ubuntu-zh channel and mailing list are for all chanese LoCo
[04:33] <beuno> mruiz, oh, we translated the CoC itself, you translated "how to sign it"
[04:33] <BlueT_> 23:30 < BlueT_> jono: to solved language-depend problems
[04:33] <mruiz> bueno, http://wiki.ubuntu-cl.org/CodigoDeConducta/Version1.0.1
[04:33] <jono> BlueT_: right, so problems for a specific team are solved on their mailing list and channel?
[04:33] <beuno> ;D
[04:33] <BlueT_> jono: yes
[04:33] <beuno> then we both duplicated efforts on that
[04:34] <jono> effie_jayx: where else is the problem?
[04:34] <BlueT_> jono: and we're building a co-maintain wiki site
[04:34] <jono> BlueT_: right, and every team has their own list and channel? what is the problem?
[04:34] <effie_jayx> jono,  I am thinking people are not understanding the ubuntu culture ...
[04:34] <jono> so is the problem we are discussing, how we solve two teams with the same language translating the same things, because they never knew they were doing it?
[04:34] <effie_jayx> or they are living it in their own way... which is good
[04:34] <beuno> I think having a language-based list and channel doesn't solve anything if it's not organized to take advantage of it
[04:34] <effie_jayx> but in my loco
[04:35] <effie_jayx> things were being done truth a lug
[04:35] <jono> if the problem is the one I listed above, then that is a Rosetta issue, and not something we can solve
[04:35] <BlueT_> jono: approved LoCo members will hang on both side (LoCo channel and co-maintain channel)
[04:35] <jono> I think we can make strides to improve communication between teams where possible, and I like the idea of having a general mailing list for languages
[04:35] <effie_jayx> which help keepping it a float for a while ... but not counting with some language councelor really made it difficul
[04:35] <jono> BlueT_: sorry, co-maintain channel?
[04:36] <looksaus> my understanding of the problem is: x spanish speaking locoteams have a lot of information to share, but few of the members are good EN speakers
[04:36] <beuno> looksaus, that sums it up
[04:36] <looksaus> so a lot of information doesn't come down from the locoteams list, and doesn't go up to the locoteams list
[04:36] <BlueT_> jono: ooops.. i don't know how to explain it... just like #ubuntu-some-language
[04:36] <jono> BlueT_: right, so you mean an IRC channel for a language
[04:37] <BlueT_> jono: core members of ubuntu-tw, ubuntu-cn, and ubuntu-hk will all on both #ubuntu-CC and #ubuntu-ZH (ZongHua)
[04:37] <jono> looksaus: right, so the problem is how to better integrate non-EN speakers into the community
[04:37] <mruiz> looksaus, this is the real language problem!
[04:37] <looksaus> absolutely
[04:37] <effie_jayx> jono,  yessss :
[04:37] <effie_jayx> :D
[04:37] <beuno> jono, exactly what I had in mind
[04:38] <BlueT_> jono: those people share informations on the channel
[04:38] <looksaus> so what I was proposing was to have some spanish communication channel that stimulates those spanish speakers who _are_ proficient in english to make sure information flows from and to the main (EN speaking) channel
[04:39] <zarul> that is a good idea
[04:39] <jono> looksaus: I agree its a problem, but its impossible to solve - there is no process or structure we can create to get everyone involved, other than manding english as the normal language for communication, which we do now
[04:39] <jono> looksaus: I think that it would be difficult to have ambassadors who speak english to feed non-english content back upstream
[04:39] <beuno> jono, maybe part of the LoCo instructions on how to manage a LoCo can intruct that team leaders should have fluent communication between them
[04:39] <Seveaz> jono: we coulda ll learn esperanto...
[04:40] <looksaus> jono, not formally appointed people
[04:40] <jono> I think we should encourage each loco team to have an english speaker though
[04:40] <beuno> once they are in communication then the rest of the info will flow by itself
[04:40] <jono> you know, it sucks that we have to always talk in english for a bunch of people, but there is no other way around it
[04:41] <ypsila> pruhust
[04:41] <jono> right now we require english as the language, but I think we only require english for interaction with the wider loco team project
[04:41] <jono> so the loco can talk entirely in their own language, but only need to use english when talking to the wider project
[04:41] <effie_jayx> jono,  we are not bothered by all the English... believe me ...
[04:41] <jono> effie_jayx: right
[04:42] <effie_jayx> jono,  75 % of the content on the internet is in English
[04:42] <BlueT_> jono: absolutly
[04:42] <beuno> I don't think that's where the problem should be solved, I think we need to make sure somehow the information gets passed around enough
[04:42] <jono> beuno: what information and passed where?
[04:42] <looksaus> jono, no matter how you turn it, a spanish speaking channel is going to grow anyway
[04:42] <jono> looksaus: I never said I didnt want that?
[04:43] <jono> I am happy for any language channel to grow, thats fine
[04:43] <BlueT_> looksaus: just register it from ChanServ
[04:43] <looksaus> no, of course not, but the thing we should do is make sure the relevant information discussed there gets passed around
[04:43] <effie_jayx> looksaus,  but people could keep an eye on it... and make shure the efforts for streamlining things in loCo's around the wolrd don't leave the spanish people behind
[04:43] <looksaus> stimulate that
[04:43] <beuno> jono, if all the spanish speaking LoCo's have some sort of *standarized* communication then at least they all know what's going on between them. They're always going to be english speaking memebers that will bring those issues up in the wider project of the LoCo's
[04:43] <looksaus> exactly what I'm trying to suggest practival solutions for
[04:43] <jono> looksaus: sure, and again, I agree, but how do we do that? we can't just assign people to do it for us, it never works, so how do we do it in a natural way?
[04:44] <looksaus> jono, like we discussed for not fragmenting newsletter and active core for 1 loco...
[04:44] <beuno> yeap
[04:44] <jono> looksaus: what do you mean?
[04:44] <beuno> 1 member per LoCo to comunicate with all the rest of same-language speaking ones
[04:44] <looksaus> one useful step would be to add a header/footer to every mailing list message of this spanish list
[04:44] <jono> sorry, I think I have missed bits of discussion here
[04:44] <beuno> that's all
[04:44] <looksaus> that encourages participation to the intl list
[04:45] <jono> right
[04:45] <looksaus> clearly pointing to the intl list in the mailing list definition
[04:45] <looksaus> things like that
[04:45] <jono> I think in the project now, it is clear that locos should be reading loco-contacts
[04:46] <Ma1kel> SUSE 10.2 FOR LIVE
[04:46] <Ma1kel> j/k
[04:46] <jono> looksaus: what do you mean for the newsletter?
[04:46] <looksaus> err, we assembled a list of +-100 people who were not interested in following the intense communication on the locoteam list
[04:47] <looksaus> but they were interested in ubuntu related activities in Belgium
[04:47] <jono> ahhh, the -announce thing
[04:47] <looksaus> yes
[04:47] <jono> right, I am with you
[04:47] <jono> sorry
[04:47] <looksaus> :)
[04:47] <looksaus> join the club :p
[04:47] <ypsila> :-D
[04:47] <Ma1kel> Yea guys thinking about adding a Slab menu for Feisty?
[04:47] <Ma1kel> *You
[04:48] <beuno> how about having a LoCo regional meeting to discuss this, manually contact all of them, and see what ideas popup?
[04:48] <effie_jayx> beuno, sounds ok
[04:48] <zarul> yea, that will make things easier
[04:48] <jono> well I think the discussion of -announce lists is something we could discuss at the next meeting
[04:48] <zarul> and it will solve a lot of things, including the timezone issue
[04:49] <looksaus> ok (just mentioned it because of similarities with the native language loco comm channels)
[04:49] <jono> I think a general -announce list may be a good idea
[04:49] <jono> for the loco teams, that is
[04:50] <effie_jayx> ok
[04:50] <mruiz> jono, can we vote for meeting date and hour?
[04:50] <jono> my concern is that if every loco has an -announce list, we balloon the number of lists, and it may fragment discussion, unless each -announce list can only have a single poster
[04:51] <jono> mruiz: nope, we set them fortnightly
[04:51] <mruiz> :-(
[04:51] <jono> mruiz: so the next one is two weeks today
[04:51] <beuno> jono, that's what I'm thinking, one person per LoCo
[04:51] <looksaus> jono, maybe better keep this for next meeting... getting close to going overtime...
[04:51] <looksaus> ?
[04:51] <jono> yeah
[04:51] <ubuntu_demon> hey
[04:51] <jono> lets defer this to the next meeting, good work chaps :)
[04:51] <mruiz> good bye jono
[04:51] <effie_jayx> :D
[04:52] <looksaus> beuno, you still feel like summarising this mess? :)
[04:52] <beuno> lol
[04:52] <jono> mruiz: I am staying for the CC meeting :P
[04:52] <mruiz> jono, me too :P
[04:52] <jono> mruiz: :)
[04:52] <LoudMouthMan> theres a meeting ?
[04:52] <beuno> who should I send it to?
[04:52] <jono> LoudMouthMan: :)
[04:52] <mruiz> LoudMouthMan, LoCo meeting
[04:52] <jono> beuno: send it to me
[04:53] <Ma1kel> 8 minutes till meeting
[04:53] <jono> heya MikeB-
[04:53] <Ma1kel> The idea is jerking me off right here
[04:53] <looksaus> hi MikeB- !
[04:53] <beuno> jono, email address?
[04:53] <Seveaz> Ma1kel: behave
[04:53] <MikeB-> hello all
[04:53] <looksaus> beuno, or the list...
[04:53] <jono> beuno: jono AT ubuntu DOT com
[04:54] <beuno> looksaus, I'll send it to jono first to make sure it's OK
[04:54] <jono> I think regular meeting summaries with rock :)
[04:54] <beuno> I don't mind doing summeries at all
[04:55] <mruiz> that's a good idea
[04:55] <ubuntu_demon> MikeB = Mike Basinger or Mike Braniff ?
[04:55] <MikeB-> Mike Basinger
[04:56] <johnboy59> hi
[04:56] <Seeker`>  hi
[04:56] <mruiz> hi
[04:56] <BlueT_> ciao
[04:56] <lguerra> hi
[04:57] <mruiz> bye BlueT_
[04:57] <kalon33> hi
[04:57] <sistpoty> hi folks
[04:57] <PriceChild> Hi all
[04:57] <BlueT_> mruiz: won't you join the comming meeting ?
[04:57] <EmxBA> the meeting should start soon
[04:58] <kalon33> hello jono
[04:58] <ypsila> moin together
[04:58] <ubuntu_demon> hey all :)
[04:58] <PriceChild> hey ubuntu_demon
[04:59] <Ma1kel> hai
[04:59] <jbailey> Hmm.  Googling for community council meeting agenda doesn't give me the agenda.
[04:59] <EmxBA> how does it go (becoming a member)? just appear in here and you will see how's it? :)
[04:59] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[04:59] <mruiz> BlueT: yes, but as you say "ciao", I told you "bye". In my country "ciao" means "bye"
[04:59] <EmxBA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[04:59] <jbailey> EmxBA: Thanks!
[04:59] <PriceChild> EmxBA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
[04:59] <zarul> yeah ciao means bye here too
[04:59] <ubuntugeek> hello all
[05:00] <gnomefreak> ypsila: is
[05:00] <ypsila> :-D
[05:00] <BlueT_> mruiz: ciao's itatiano, means both good morning and good night :p
[05:00] <Ma1kel> +m
[05:00] <zarul> ok, it's 00:00 here now
[05:00] <Ma1kel> same
[05:00] <gnomefreak> BlueT_: hi and bye but close
[05:00] <ypsila> 17:00
[05:01] <kalon33> 17:00 too ^^
[05:01] <jono> hi kalon33
[05:01] <cjwatson> we'll be here in a minute or two
[05:01] <ypsila> bon soir kalon33
[05:01] <gnomefreak> jono: do we have new CC here or old CC here?
[05:01] <kalon33> bonsoir ypsila
[05:01] <BlueT_> 00:00 here
[05:01] <zarul> so is the CC meeting going to start?
[05:01] <Ma1kel> 17:02
[05:01] <gnomefreak> zarul: couple of minutes
[05:01] <MacSlow> 2 minutes late... tstststs ;)
[05:01] <cjwatson> gno	old
[05:01] <zarul> no prob
[05:01] <ypsila> time to make nonsens
[05:02] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: old
[05:02] <gnomefreak> cjwatson: ok cool
[05:02] <cjwatson> we've just been talking nominations on the phone
[05:02] <MacSlow> hi cjwatson
[05:02] <jono> gnomefreak: eh?
[05:02] <Ma1kel> I'm hardcore.
[05:02] <jono> oh right
[05:02] <jono> old
[05:02] <gnomefreak> jono: cjwatson answered
[05:02] <jono> :)
[05:02] <gnomefreak> :)
[05:02] <cjwatson> RIGHT
[05:02] <MacSlow> jono, since you are here now you may play a part in my 'fan-club' :)
[05:03] <gnomefreak> hello elmo
[05:03] <cjwatson> let the enormous agenda of death begin
[05:03] <EmxBA> hello all
[05:03] <cjwatson> oh, I guess we should wait for sabdfl and mako to /join
[05:03] <popey> oi, gerrof MacSlow, he's mine!
[05:03] <jono> now now
[05:03] <GazzaK> does anyone want a nice banner to show their love and support for popey? I made this - http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8489/popeysmembergg2.jpg
[05:03] <LoudMouthMan> popey , macslow . .he asked me to join so he is mine !
[05:03] <popey> oh jeez
[05:03] <popey> he's only talking to you to get to me
[05:03] <LoudMouthMan> oh and I brought my Client into the channel as well so be nice <grin>
[05:04] <popey> \o/
[05:04] <sabdfl> hey ho all you merry members
[05:04] <johnboy59> Yes I have your Noveber cheque here Nik
[05:04] <gnomefreak> hello sabdfl
[05:04] <effie_jayx> :D
[05:04] <kalon33> He helps me to do all right LoudMouthMan ! :p
[05:04] <MacSlow> popey, LoudMouthMan: only over my dead body
[05:04] <LoudMouthMan> mmmmm money ..
[05:04] <kalon33> hello sabdfl
[05:04] <popey> ;)
[05:04] <GazzaK> evening sabdfl  - I made a banner :-)  http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8489/popeysmembergg2.jpg
[05:04] <EmxBA> hello sabdfl
[05:04] <ypsila> moin sabdfl
[05:04] <ubuntu_demon> hey sabdfl
[05:05] <MacSlow> hi sabdfl
[05:05] <sabdfl> it's been a while
[05:05] <popey> moo
[05:05] <sabdfl> sorry about that - lots of travel for the whole team
[05:05] <mruiz> hello sabdfl
[05:05] <sabdfl> but
[05:05] <lophylap> heya sabdfl
[05:05] <gnomefreak> GazzaK: please dont spam in here
[05:05] <sabdfl> also lots of productive community-related discussions at UDS mountain view
[05:05] <sabdfl> thanks to everyone who participated there
[05:05] <sabdfl> directly and via voip / gobby / wiki / irc
[05:05] <sabdfl> popey: niiiice
[05:05] <sabdfl> so
[05:06] <sabdfl> we have some excellent structural items up for comment and approval
[05:06] <EmxBA> how will the CC meeting go? from A to Z from the agenda list or?
[05:06] <sabdfl> we also want to set a timetable for the expansion of the CC
[05:07] <Seveaz> sabdfl: are there other CC members somewhere?
[05:07] <sabdfl> looking at the agenda, there's an item missing, which is the proposal of seveas as a CC Secretary, a new role
[05:07] <elmo> seveaz: colin and I are here
[05:07] <mruiz> ;-)
[05:07] <elmo> mako was around, he should be here shortly
[05:07] <Seveaz> elmo: merci and hi
[05:07] <sabdfl> mako was on a call with us a second ago
[05:07] <sabdfl> Seveaz, you going french?
[05:08] <PriceChild> speak of the devil
[05:08] <mako> greetings
[05:08] <ubuntugeek> .
[05:08] <Seveaz> hi mako
[05:08] <jono> heya mako
[05:08] <MacSlow> hi mako
[05:08] <Belutz> ah i missed the loco meeting :(
[05:08] <jono> Belutz: there will be a summary, fear not
[05:08] <nixternal> good jono, cuz i was sleeping in class :)
[05:08] <sabdfl> ok, on to the agenda
[05:09] <lophyte> heya nixternal
[05:09] <sabdfl> Seveas, around?
[05:09] <ubuntu_demon> hey mako
[05:09] <kalon33> hello nixternal
[05:09] <mako> unfortunately, i have not been able to go through all of my canonical mail from over the weekend so may not as up to date on every issue as i should be
[05:09] <mako> i should also mention that i will probably have to go in 1.5 or 2 hours, but am happy to catch up later this afternoon on anything i miss
[05:09] <gnomefreak> Seveaz: is seveas i think ;)
[05:09] <Belutz> jono: ok, thanks :)
[05:09] <mako> but we should try to handle things that have a lot of discussion before
[05:09] <Seveaz> gnomefreak: correct :)
[05:10] <Seveaz> sabdfl: I'm at work now so different nick
[05:10] <PriceChild> gnomefreak: the cloak gives it away
[05:10] <jono> ok, so is the Leadership CoC first?
[05:10] <mako> sabdfl: right
[05:10] <sabdfl> Seveaz: please add the secretary proposal to the end of the agenda
[05:10] <mako> yes, Leadership CoC
[05:10] <sabdfl> Leadership Code of Conduct
[05:10] <sabdfl> thanks to mako, jono and others for pulling this together
[05:11] <Seveaz> sabdfl: -EACCESS forgot password and no access to home mail
[05:11] <sabdfl> i think it's important, especially in the context of the various team councils that are being set up
[05:11] <mako> if they haven't already, people should read it
[05:11] <jono> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeadershipCodeofConduct by the way
[05:11] <mako> if they see anything major missing, or something major that shouldn't be there that is, it would be good to know
[05:12] <mako> obviously, since i wrote it, i'm pretty happy with ti.
[05:12] <Belutz> do the LoCo leader have to sign this leadership CoC?
[05:12] <sabdfl> i've reviewed and made a few tweaks
[05:12] <mako> sabdfl: you're the only one :)
[05:12] <cjwatson> "conflicts of interest"> I think the emphasis is the wrong way round in the third sentence
[05:12] <sabdfl> yes, LoCo team leaders, and other senior CC-appointed teams (and of course the CC ;-)) will be held to this standard
[05:12] <cjwatson> should be that perceived conflicts of interest are as important as real ones?
[05:12] <sabdfl> cjwatson: good point
[05:13] <lophyte> is that only for approved LoCo teams?
[05:13] <mako> cjwatson: yes
[05:13] <jono> lophyte: all leaders are expected to abide by it
[05:13] <sabdfl> lophyte: for anyone that purports to take a leadership role in a LoCo team
[05:13] <lophyte> alrighty :)
[05:13] <jono> lophyte: and the approval process for loco teams will observe this
[05:13] <sabdfl> in other words, if you are driving a team or claiming to, for part of ubuntu, then you should expect people to hold you to this standard
[05:13] <Belutz> jono: when is the deadline for the approved loco teams?
[05:14] <sabdfl> just like people in an IRC channel or forum or mailing list might say to someone, "dude, read the CoC, I think that's a bit out of line"
[05:14] <mako> it's seen as something like the code of conduct
[05:14] <EmxBA> hi mako, nixternal, seveaz, ubuntu_demon
[05:14] <mako> not a stick, but a high-level set of principles we except leaders to live up to
[05:14] <sabdfl> folks will likely remind leaders of this document if they are forgetting the guidelines
[05:14] <lophyte> jono, sabdfl: excellent :)
[05:14] <mako> that's right
[05:14] <jono> Belutz: there is no deadline, but we expect loco leaders to abide by the Leadership CoC - this is why we are presenting it to the CC for approval
[05:14] <Seveaz> s/except/expect/
[05:14] <jono> Belutz: most leaders have the qualities in that document fairly innately
[05:14] <sabdfl> ok, so any additional comments on the document?
[05:15] <mruiz> jono: what is the difference between LoCo leader and LoCo contact? This CoC is only for leaders?
[05:15] <mako> mruiz: the lcoc is for anyone in a leadership position in ubuntu
[05:15] <theCore> can I ask a question?
[05:15] <sabdfl> can I ask CC members to +1 or -1 the document as it stands, pending possible typo or tweaks, no "editorial changes"?
[05:15] <mako> theCore: of course
[05:15] <sabdfl> theCore: go ahead
[05:15] <jono> mruiz: if a team has a leader, or puts themself in a position of leadership, they should abide by the LCoC
[05:16] <cjwatson> sabdfl: I did some minor tweaks just now
[05:16] <mruiz> ok, thanks
[05:16] <theCore> how new leaders will be nominated?
[05:16] <Seveaz> theCore: that's different per team
[05:16] <MikeB-> the document is fine, one comment I have is if there is ever a CoC 2.0 made, the LCoC should be merge into it. Many of the ideas of the LCoC can be applied to ever Ubuntu community member
[05:17] <mako> MikeB-: fair enough
[05:17] <sabdfl> if you form a team, called, say "ubuntu-advocacy-it", and announce it, and want to be an organiser, then you should expect people to hold you to this standard even if you did this without any formal appointment by the CC
[05:17] <sabdfl> you are overtly taking a leadership role
[05:17] <sabdfl> and anyone participating in the ubuntu community, in its broadest sense, should know what they can expect from their leaders
[05:17] <ubuntugeek> hmm so does this mean that any (ubuntuforums) staff member should be bound to the lcoc as well? Or should only admins/fc be bound to this?
[05:17] <mako> right, the CoC doesn't just apply to people who have officially agreed it to or become ubunteros.. it sets the tone for the community
[05:18] <theCore> sabdfl, ah, that makes more sense
[05:18] <theCore> thanks
[05:18] <mako> likewise, this wouldn't only apply to people in officially delegated positions but anyone in a leadership position to the community
[05:18] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: i think you will find that forums members hold moderators to this standard
[05:18] <sabdfl> same with irc participants and IRC ops
[05:18] <sabdfl> the nice thing is, there is still room for context-specific guidelines and processes
[05:18] <ubuntugeek> i see
[05:18] <PriceChild> ubuntugeek: sabdfl: What about moderators who are currently on leave? Surely things like the stepping down during extended absences can't apply.
[05:18] <sabdfl> like the forums guys with their dispute resolution processes
[05:19] <sabdfl> and the mailing list etiquette guidelines
[05:19] <MikeB-> ubuntugeek: I think the staff is viewed and acts as leaders
[05:19] <sabdfl> and IRC ops guidelines
[05:19] <sabdfl> this is a nice general statement of core values
[05:19] <jono> indeed
[05:19] <mako> ubuntugeek: it's high level, people aren't often (ever?) punished for violating it. but it's a set of ideals that we agree to agree on
[05:19] <markvandenborre> I really like it
[05:19] <mako> like the CoC
[05:19] <cjwatson> the thing I'd like people to take away from this is that holding a position of authority is a contract - you have certain privileges in exchange for certain responsibilities
[05:19] <sabdfl> PriceChild: interesting. in the case of moderation, you are not *blocking* decisions by not stepping down
[05:20] <sabdfl> i think it may be worth clarifying this
[05:20] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl : +1
[05:20] <sabdfl> in other words, where a leadership position has a quorum impact on decisions, its important to step down
[05:20] <cjwatson> this is a sort of statement of the general kinds of responsibilities that people in authority tend to have
[05:20] <cjwatson> as part of general leadership decency
[05:20] <sabdfl> where it's just about having additional permissions, and others can take up the slack without you stepping down, then there's more flexibility
[05:20] <PriceChild> sabdfl: ubuntugeek: ok gotcha. Btw, I have no problem with the LCoC or CoC, to me they're just common courtesy.
[05:20] <mako> PriceChild: that's the idea
[05:21] <ubuntu_demon> I really like the LCoC and CoC
[05:21] <sabdfl> PriceChild: you'd be amazed how useful it is to document common courtesy, given the diversity in age, nationality, culture, language, background, etc in a community this big
[05:21] <cjwatson> sabdfl: "If an absence becomes extended, [and this absence will get in the way of other people's work,]  they should step own ..."
[05:21] <cjwatson> down
[05:21] <cjwatson> ?
[05:22] <ubuntu_demon> cjwatson: I like that added part
[05:22] <PriceChild> sabdfl: It is very useful having a solid document to be able to refer "naughty" users to.
[05:22] <cjwatson> I wouldn't really want to use the term "naughty" of leaders :-)
[05:22] <theCore> "Leaders in Ubuntu can not and will not stay leaders only because they got there first."  How leaders will be changed?
[05:22] <ogra> votes
[05:22] <PriceChild> :)
[05:22] <jono> the LCoC not onl document courtesy but identifies core leadership values, that like sabdfl says, can be built upon inside each team
[05:22] <SD-Plissken> So what. you guys are saying that one can not give courtesy and respect with out following the CoC rules?
[05:22] <cjwatson> theCore: this isn't a statement of process
[05:22] <somerville32> What level of professionalism should volunteers in leadership positions (such as an IRC Operator or Team Leader) be expected to maintain?
[05:22] <PriceChild> That's a polite word for it anyway...
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> "Leaders in Ubuntu can not and will not stay leaders only because they got there first"
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> sure they can..
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> why not
[05:23] <anto9us> If I can interject something that might be missing from the lcoc doc, and that is that leaders often treat each other in ways that might be mis-perceived by some as inappropriate, like kicking each other from the IRC-channels for example, it's fun perhaps for the ops but open to interpretation as bullying or flexing of IRC muscle, to my mind, it's an example of setting a bad example
[05:23] <Seveaz> ubuntugeek: others may be more competent
[05:23] <Seveaz> or more available
[05:23] <Seveaz> or better smelling
[05:23] <Seveaz> or ....
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> huh
[05:23] <lophyte> just because you got there first, doesn't mean you're a good leader
[05:23] <GnuKemist> :)
[05:24] <elmo> ubuntugeek: it doesn't mean to imply that if they're fine, and the only thing is that they were there first, that they have to be replaced
[05:24] <LoudMouthMan> lophyte: indeed.
[05:24] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: depends on the leader. I'm stepping down from the CC because I think others who have got less worn-out will do a better job than I can.
[05:24] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: but that doesn't mean I think the other CC members ought to do the same
[05:24] <ubuntugeek> Sure..
[05:25] <jono> anto9us: that is in some ways a separate issue - bullying is unacceptable, but there is no way we can develop policy and guidelines around "playful banter"
[05:25] <ubuntu_demon> in case of ubuntugeek it's in the ForumsGovernance document that he has a lifetime membership of the Forums Council as long as ubuntugeek (Ryan) follows the LCoC
[05:25] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: I think the point is "*only* because" - if folks deserve to continue leading their community, there are certainly other "because"s
[05:25] <mako> ubuntugeek: the operative word is *only*
[05:25] <ubuntugeek> ud: ah, which i never really agreed to. the lcoc was added our calls
[05:26] <mako> ubuntugeek: if the *only* reason someone maintains a leadership position is because they got their first, that seems like a bit of a bum deal
[05:26] <sabdfl> ok, i've modded the doc to address the difference between blocking and non-blocking absences
[05:26] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeadershipCodeofConduct?action=diff
[05:26] <PriceChild> Thanks sabdfl
[05:26] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : the lcoc was mentioned during one of these conference calls about the forums. I'm sure you overheard. But it's not very important as long as you agree :)
[05:26] <mako> ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon: but this document wasn't written when we had the last call. that's why we're talking about it now
[05:26] <ubuntu_demon> mako : yeah
[05:27] <MikeB-> as I see it, the LCoC is a guideline, a document to give us direction, and should never be use as a stick to weild over people
[05:27] <mako> ubuntugeek couldn't have been expected to agree in advance to an unwritten document :)
[05:27] <ubuntu_demon> mako : true. although it's a nice document :)
[05:27] <mako> ubuntu_demon: i agree :)
[05:27] <ubuntugeek> hah
[05:27] <ubuntugeek> wow ego's
[05:27] <ubuntu_demon> :-p
[05:28] <mako> ubuntugeek: ;)
[05:28] <ubuntugeek> not amused..
[05:28] <MikeB-> all cases will have to be bought to the CC, FC , or whatever counsil
[05:28] <cjwatson> one problem we have had in the past, in Debian or Ubuntu or whatever, is team leaders wandering off and everyone else being stuck unable to get anything done
[05:28] <cjwatson> it's a pretty real problem
[05:28] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: satisfied with the language?
[05:28] <popey> indeed, LUGs have the same problem
[05:28] <ubuntugeek> sure ok, lets move on then.. we can address the lcoc i am bound to when we talk about the governance
[05:28] <kalon33> sure popey
[05:29] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : IMHO it's important that you address it now if you have any issues with it. Then it can be improved.
[05:30] <sabdfl> this is not a legal document
[05:30] <sabdfl> it will be difficult to "bind" anyone to it
[05:30] <anto9us> jono, yes, I make a specific point as an example and yes I agree it's a separate issue, though I wouldn't wish for a policy around that specifically so much as awareness of potential issues that might arise from the playful banter, to some seeing someone being kicked strikes up a fight or flight response
[05:30] <ubuntugeek> thats fine.. nothing further from me
[05:30] <sabdfl> most of what happens in the ubuntu community is based on goodwill and good faith
[05:30] <cjwatson> it's more important to say what we expect so that people know what they're "signing up for" when they take on leadership positions
[05:30] <effie_jayx> sabdfl,  there is still moral respnsibility
[05:30] <effie_jayx> :D
[05:30] <sabdfl> i think it will be clear the circumstances under which someone is not really following this LCoC
[05:30] <cjwatson> if you've not been in a leadership kind of position before, sometimes it's not all obvious
[05:30] <SD-Plissken> How is it not a legal doc. your asking folks to abide by it,and conform the rules in it sabdfl
[05:31] <jono> anto9us: sure, and I think this is something we can discuss and develop as a separate case
[05:31] <sabdfl> i don't think it will ever turn into a legalistic, clause-by-clause thing
[05:31] <mako> right, introducing something like this retroactively is a bit tricky, so it's important to get consensus or identify issues now among people who are currently in leadership positions
[05:31] <mako> right, i think it's more like the CoC
[05:31] <cjwatson> SD-Plissken: it's not "you're violating clause 3, subsection 7. bzzt" - it's an informal statement of values
[05:31] <mako> people invoke it frequently enough, but rarely "apply" it
[05:31] <cjwatson> er clause <-> subsection but you know what I mean :-)
[05:31] <ubuntu_demon> mako : +1. IMHO it's important that all big community leaders give their input on the document right now .. before it's getting approved
[05:32] <sabdfl> to be specific, i would not ask ubuntugeek to step down form the forums council because of a single incident or issue, which is i think what was worrying ubuntugeek, given the context of our UDS forums discussions
[05:32] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: correct
[05:32] <sabdfl> i am happy with ubuntugeek's life-long position on the FC, it's an unusual concession but i think it's well deserved
[05:33] <sabdfl> making it subject to the LCoC is really only a convenient way of saying "stay engaged and stay constructive"
[05:33] <jono> I agree with sabdfl that it would be pretty clear if someone was not acting within the spirit of the LCoC
[05:33] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl: +1 IMHO ubuntugeek deserves to be a lifelong member of the FC
[05:33] <SD-Plissken> cjwatson I don't by that. the simple fact is if you dont abide by it your brought up for repremand or asked to remove yourself. rules are writen to be inforced. I highly doubt these where written in hohum fashion.
[05:33] <sabdfl> i would not invoke the LCoC unless there was BROAD consensus that that was not the case
[05:33] <sabdfl> like, someone doesn't show up to meetings for months
[05:33] <sabdfl> i have to be a bit careful here myself ;-)
[05:33] <mako> sabdfl: that's right
[05:33] <jono> indeed
[05:33] <nixternal> haha
[05:33] <MikeB-> sabdfl: bwhahaha!!!
[05:33] <mako> sabdfl: the whole thing, not just that you need to be careful.. ALTHOUGH YOU DO
[05:33] <mako> :)
[05:34] <sabdfl> ok, so, can i ask CC members to +1 or -1 the document as it stands?
[05:34] <cjwatson> SD-Plissken: guidelines, not rules
[05:34] <sabdfl> we're 30 minutes in and have a lot of ground to cover
[05:34] <mako> i'll abstain since i had a such a large role in drafting it
[05:34] <sabdfl> mako: please don't!
[05:34] <kalon33> sabdfl: funny ^^
[05:34] <cjwatson> rules are written to be enforced, but guidelines are written so that people know where they stand
[05:34] <jono> I think you should vote mako
[05:34] <mako> fine, +1 from me
[05:34] <jono> mako: you would not write it if you disagreed with it
[05:35] <mako> jono: right, that's why i wouldn't vote against it :)
[05:35] <cjwatson> sabdfl: +1, we've already gone over the bits I thought were wonky and changed them
[05:35] <SD-Plissken> Fine guidelines. and the fact still stand if you don't follow the guideline theres reprocutions.
[05:35] <elmo> +1
[05:35] <EmxBA> +1 from me too
[05:35] <jono> mako: woo!
[05:35] <Yann2> +1 as guidelines
[05:35] <sabdfl> +1 form me too
[05:35] <sabdfl> super, thanks mako, jono, CC
[05:35] <cjwatson> sabdfl: oh, perhaps we should make it even more clear that they're not meant for rigid enforcement
[05:35] <sabdfl> DONE
[05:35] <jono> :)
[05:35] <BlueT_> +1 as Guidelines
[05:35] <mruiz> +1
[05:35] <cjwatson> it does say so at the top, but it could be clearer to stave off paranoia
[05:36] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for the LCoC
[05:36] <Seveaz> (people: only CC members vote. +1 from others is noty needed)
[05:36] <sabdfl> it does say "a set of guidelines"
[05:36] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for the LCoC as guidelines that is :)
[05:36] <mako> alright lets move on
[05:36] <mako> my time here is limited
[05:36] <sabdfl> so let's leave it as it stands, we can clarify it if someone cites the LCoC in a lawsuit :-)
[05:36] <Seveaz> sabdfl: can we do the IRC bit first, I may get kicked out soon
[05:36] <mako> the forums governance document is next
[05:36] <cjwatson> SD-Plissken: I'd expect that in general if people were acting out of character for how we'd like leaders to behave, we'd talk to them first, not treat them like naughty children
[05:37] <sabdfl> ok
[05:37] <mako> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumsGovernance i believe
[05:37] <sabdfl> i'll come out up front and say i'm opposed
[05:37] <sabdfl> (sorry, mako, want to address IRC issue)
[05:37] <sabdfl> i understand there are some issues
[05:37] <mako> oh, ok
[05:38] <sabdfl> but i don't think the folks proposing the move have come up with very strong arguments
[05:38] <mako> i missed a line in there
[05:38] <sabdfl> freenode appears to be doing OK despite the loss of lilo
[05:38] <ubuntu_demon> are we talking about seveas as CC secretary now ?
[05:38] <Seveaz> ubuntu_demon: no, staying on freenode or not
[05:38] <sabdfl> the #canonical issue was never, in my mind, a forcing function for an ubuntu community decision, and its resolved now in any event
[05:38] <SD-Plissken> cjwatson if you say so. just remember that statement you made there.
[05:38] <gnomefreak> ubuntu_demon: no freenode proposals
[05:38] <cjwatson> the original GetOffFreenodeSpec was prompted by concerns about #canonical - that's since been moved to a private server so seems moot
[05:38] <cjwatson> SD-Plissken: sure, I'm entirely happy to stand by what I said
[05:39] <sabdfl> ok, so does anyone on the CC want to take up the case for moving?
[05:39] <ubuntugeek> someone ping me when we get to the FG..
[05:39] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : I will
[05:39] <cjwatson> sabdfl: no, I was sort of +0 anyway and am uninterested now
[05:39] <sabdfl> ok, can we vote briefly?
[05:39] <sabdfl> -1
[05:40] <sabdfl> i would rather we vote, take a decision, than just defer it indefinitely
[05:40] <cjwatson> -0, seems like lots of work for little gain now
[05:40] <elmo> -0
[05:40] <Yann2> -1
[05:40] <mruiz> Our LoCo team (http://www.ubuntu-cl.org) has a forum.  This FG can be applied?
[05:40] <jono> Yann2: only CC members need to vote thanks
[05:40] <sabdfl> mako?
[05:40] <cjwatson> mruiz: let's wait 'til we get to that agenda item
[05:40] <mako> ubuntu_demon: should be next i suppose
[05:40] <PriceChild> mruiz: we haven't got to that yet
[05:40] <Yann2> jono > I think I am :]
[05:41] <Yann2> or am i ubuntu member ... sorry :]
[05:41] <mako> sabdfl: i'm not going to rock the boat
[05:41] <sabdfl> Yann2: you'll get to vote on CC members, soon
[05:41] <gnomefreak> Yann2: the CC is only 4 members
[05:41] <jono> Yann2: you are not a CC member
[05:41] <Seveaz> Yann2: the CC members are sabdfl, elmo, mako, kamion
[05:41] <mruiz> cjwatson, PriceChild : oh
[05:41] <sabdfl> mako: +1, -1, 0?
[05:41] <mako> 0
[05:41] <cjwatson> s/kamion/cjwatson/ nowadays :)
[05:41] <sabdfl> ok
[05:41] <sabdfl> guess i have to take the bullet ;-)
[05:41] <sabdfl> CC decides to decline the proposal, we can of course discuss this again in future if the situation changes
[05:41] <MikeB-> bullets are a good source of iron
[05:42] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: that wasn't a tie, it was -1/4
[05:42] <mako> i'm sympathetic for arguements from both side, but don't see a mandate for moving from the community
[05:42] <apokryphos> I think it would've been useful to get input from people on the IRC ops council on this issue too
[05:42] <sabdfl> Seveas: what's next?
[05:42] <apokryphos> though I'm sure they all agree with the final decision 8)
[05:42] <Seveaz> sabdfl: forums guidelines
[05:42] <elmo> apokryphos: (we did at previous meetings)
[05:42] <jono> ubuntugeek: ping! its up
[05:42] <sabdfl> ok, we had extensive and ultimately very positive, constructive discussions on this during mountain view
[05:43] <ubuntugeek> ok
[05:43] <sabdfl> i think everyone in the CC wants to give the Forums full recognition and integration in the the ubuntu community
[05:43] <sabdfl> so thanks to those who devoted a lot of time to the discussions
[05:43] <jono> the document is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumsGovernance
[05:43] <ubuntugeek> I have no issues at this time with the FG.. we discussed it in detail at the mds
[05:44] <kalon33> thanks jono for the reference
[05:44] <sabdfl> one thing that i think is worth pointing out is that a lot of this thinking has been generalised to other teams too
[05:44] <cjwatson> (administrivia: I have to leave at 17:45 UTC)
[05:44] <mako> yeah, i'm excited that it looks like we're finally ready to move forward with this.. it's way, way past time that the forums be given full recognition for the central role they've played
[05:44] <sabdfl> so this effort pays off not just for Forums but for other growing parts of the community
[05:44] <sabdfl> like the MOTU
[05:44] <sabdfl> these guidelines, structures etc will get duplicated and re-used
[05:44] <ubuntu_demon> Maybe we should ask if there are people who have big issues with the document ?
[05:44] <sabdfl> so a worthwhile investment of time and thinking from ubuntugeek, jono, mako, ubuntu_demon, MikeB-, CC and many others
[05:45] <sabdfl> can we take out the "This a draft. Everything here is completely open for discussion and reevaluation."
[05:45] <mako> the only procedural clarification i'd like to make now (which i think is clear in the document), is that council, when initially created, won't immediately be able to create ubuntu members
[05:45] <mako> sabdfl: i'd love to
[05:46] <sabdfl> ok, i'm going to chop off the top and bottom which are focused on the discussion, so what we have left is the RESULT and the document for approval by the CC
[05:46] <mako> sabdfl: i just chopped off the top
[05:46] <ubuntu_demon> mako : the CC will guide the FC in the process of creating ubuntu members right ? So maybe current forum staff on the CC agenda can be the first to go through this new process
[05:46] <effie_jayx> httguhthhghryhhrhhh55u4htjh5jutj6iuu4h5i6h3jhrtjhrjhrjhrjrtujhrtjjtjht
[05:46] <effie_jayx> rtjhtrht5
[05:47] <ubuntugeek> ud: I think we were going to get to the election of ubuntu members down the road at some point
[05:47] <cjwatson> ... and hello to effie_jayx's cat
[05:47] <PriceChild> lol :)
[05:47] <dholbach> :-)
[05:47] <GazzaK> haha
[05:47] <mruiz> hahaha
[05:47] <jono> so are there any aspects that anyone wishes to discuss about the document?
[05:47] <EmxBA> effie_jayx: hello cat. welcome to ubuntu meeting :)
[05:48] <mako> ubuntu_demon, ubuntugeek: that's right, soon, we just need to see a few of the FC members here as we  go through the process so we're sure everyone is on the same page in terms of qualifications for membership
[05:48] <mako> ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon: we've done that with all of the councils as well
[05:49] <ubuntugeek> none here.. I would like to note per our conversations at mds.. the FC would be formed initially of myself, john and mike with the nominations of two others to sit on the fc with us.. i dont see that on the document
[05:49] <ubuntu_demon> mako : yeah great .  There's at least one on the current CC agenda (I haven't had time to take a good look at it)
[05:49] <jono> ubuntugeek: which Mike?
[05:49] <ubuntugeek> kiwinz braniff
[05:49] <jono> right
[05:49] <PriceChild> ubuntu_demon: I'm one :)
[05:50] <SD-Plissken> ubuntugeek now theres the question who will pick the other two parties to sit with you?
[05:50] <ubuntu_demon> kiwinz and john (jdong) are both forum admins
[05:50] <sabdfl> ok, i've taken out all the "discussion" stuff
[05:50] <sabdfl> so the doc represents a clear proposal
[05:50] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumsGovernance?action=diff
[05:50] <ubuntugeek> sd-.. the admins have already discussed and chosen..
[05:50] <mako> ubuntugeek: right, we need the full list so we can approve it
[05:51] <ubuntu_demon> SD-Plissken: IMHO Ryan can start with 3 admins as FC or 3 admins + 2 others (chosen by Ryan as well)
[05:51] <sabdfl> to be clear, the nominations should come from the CC, not just approval of forums admins decisions
[05:51] <ubuntugeek> mako: full list of what?
[05:51] <sabdfl> the process is laid out in the FG doc
[05:51] <mako> ubuntugeek: candidates, namely the two others
[05:51] <mako> ubuntugeek: sorry, forum membefs
[05:51] <mako> ubuntugeek: sorry, forum *council* members
[05:51] <ubuntugeek> i was under the impression to initialize this process we were going to select
[05:52] <sabdfl> the initial FC is 3 members (ryan troy, mike braniff, john dong)
[05:52] <sabdfl> we need to expand that to 5
[05:52] <ubuntugeek> Right
[05:52] <sabdfl> process is cc appointment in consultation with [list of stakeholders]
[05:53] <sabdfl> i'd like to get to 5 quick, and think it's reasonable for the FC (of 3) to put up some names
[05:53] <sabdfl> if the CC is happy, we can JDI
[05:53] <ubuntugeek> Thats fine
[05:54] <ubuntu_demon> what does JD stand for ?
[05:54] <ubuntugeek> mikeb and matthew are our two selections.
[05:54] <sabdfl> Just Do It
[05:54] <ubuntu_demon> okay thanks :)
[05:54] <sabdfl> intro to matthew? i think the CC has met MikeB in Moutnain View
[05:54] <mako> sabdfl: so, to clarify, is the idea to vote on this now with the initial list of three
[05:54] <cjwatson> mikeb as in Basinger?
[05:54] <cjwatson> which matthew?
[05:54] <ubuntugeek> cjwatson: correct
[05:54] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : Do mikeb and matthew know you have nominated them ?
[05:55] <sabdfl> mako: if we have 2 good candidates, i think we all win with a fast decision on the expansion as well as the FG docs
[05:55] <sabdfl> ubuntu_demon: heh, good point
[05:55] <sabdfl> they do, of course, have to want the position :-)
[05:55] <ubuntu_demon> matthew and mikeb are two fine forum moderaters who have been active in the staff for quite some time
[05:55] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=17635
[05:55] <mako> well, MikeB- knows now :)
[05:55] <PriceChild> +1 on that ubuntu_demon
[05:55] <ubuntugeek> ud: yes they know
[05:55] <MikeB-> ubuntugeek asked me a couple of weeks ago, I would be honored
[05:56] <jenda> I'd second that too, ubuntu_demon.
[05:56] <ubuntugeek> and both accepted
[05:56] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: ta
[05:56] <sabdfl> has this been publicly discussed by forums staff?
[05:56] <sabdfl> since we're approving the FG doc, it seems sane to make sure it's followed :-)
[05:56] <ubuntugeek> matthew is a fine moderator who has take the intuitive to excel his role on the forums.
[05:57] <sabdfl> but, has it been publicly discussed with forums staff?
[05:57] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl: AFAIK it's not been publicly discussed with forums staff (it's new to me but I've been quite busy lately with school)
[05:57] <sabdfl> are both candidates ubuntu members?
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> no clue
[05:58] <jenda> MikeB-: is candidating now
[05:58] <MikeB-> sabdfl: appliying today
[05:58] <sabdfl> (it would be a trivial +1 given their contributions to the forum, clearly)
[05:58] <MikeB-> :), Vote Mike!
[05:58] <ubuntu_demon> is matthew here now ?
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> i dont think he could make it
[05:58] <sabdfl> ok, CC, how do you feel about dealing with MikeB now, and asking for more on matthew?
[05:58] <jenda> matthew is an ubuntu member
[05:58] <sabdfl> the doc says
[05:58] <jenda> https://launchpad.net/people/matthelmke
[05:58] <sabdfl>  - ubuntu member
[05:58] <sabdfl>  - public wiki page
[05:58] <elmo> trivial +1 on MikeB-
[05:59] <cjwatson> ditto elmo
[05:59] <MikeB-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikeBasinger
[05:59] <mako> sabdfl: we've seen matthelmkde before,
[05:59] <sabdfl>  - opinions from forums staff, admins (we have that)
[05:59] <cjwatson> matthew is already in ubuntumembers, good
[05:59] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for MikeB
[05:59] <jenda> mako: careful, mdke = Matthew East
[05:59] <sabdfl> yeah, all i'm looking for is a bit more public process within the Forums on matthew's nomination to FC
[06:00] <cjwatson> MikeB-: could you stick a link to your launchpad page on your wiki page? thanks
[06:00] <mako> jenda: while tricky, i think i can keep my matthe's straight ;)
[06:00] <sabdfl> mako: we've hired a BUNCH more at Canonical :-)
[06:00] <SD-Plissken> sabdfl matthew and mike are both good to go,and standup guys.
[06:00] <sabdfl> not all of whom, i think, are straight
[06:00] <jenda> hehe :)
[06:00] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl: the best way to get more forums input is discussing it in our private staff forum. Personally I support these two candidates (I didn't know about them being nominated)
[06:00] <ubuntugeek> sd-plissken is a moderator
[06:01] <ubuntugeek> you have enough feedback here to proceed
[06:01] <PriceChild> For what its worth I'll back both of them also - moderator
[06:01] <zarul> it is 01:00 here
[06:01] <mako> i'm thrilled with MikeB- for membership
[06:01] <sabdfl> ok, let's vote on MikeB for ubuntu membership, then for FC membership, and ask ubuntugeek to coordinate more public discussion on matthew amongst forums staff
[06:01] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : that's true as well. How many forum staff are here now ?
[06:01] <mako> the documentation only confirms that i thought before
[06:01] <ubuntugeek> mako: ?
[06:01] <cjwatson> I think we've already voted on MikeB for membership. :)
[06:02] <sabdfl> so we have mako +1 on mikeb, and i will +1 too
[06:02] <cjwatson> 16:58 < elmo> trivial +1 on MikeB-
[06:02] <cjwatson> 16:59 < cjwatson> ditto elmo
[06:02] <sabdfl> ok, and cjwatson too, so well done mikeb
[06:02] <mako> ubuntugeek: documentation on his wiki page, etc
[06:02] <EmxBA> excuse me, but what+s FC?
[06:02] <mako> ubuntugeek: lots of contributions, activity on the forums, etc
[06:02] <sabdfl> Forums Council
[06:02] <Seveaz> EmxBA: forums council
[06:02] <MikeB-> my thanks to you all
[06:02] <sabdfl> welcome
[06:02] <cjwatson> EmxBA: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumsGovernance
[06:02] <EmxBA> thanks
[06:02] <ogra> MikeB-, congrats and welcome
[06:02] <jono> congratulations MikeB-
[06:02] <ubuntu_demon> congratiolations MikeB ! :)
[06:02] <sabdfl> +1 from me also for MikeB on the FC
[06:02] <PriceChild> well done MikeB-
[06:02] <cjwatson> MikeB-: (will need a launchpad account name to put that into effect)
[06:03] <EmxBA> brb
[06:03] <mako> right, i'm happy with both both MikeB- and matthew (for tha matter) on the FC
[06:03] <ubuntu_demon> mako : me too
[06:03] <elmo> what mako said
[06:03] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from mako on both MikeB and matthew
[06:03] <ubuntu_demon> (although I'm not a CC member :))
[06:04] <sabdfl> i'd like more evidence of open forums discussion on matthew, but if the rest of the CC +1's him i'll roll with it
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> us three admins discussed it.. thats good enough, the fg isnt even in place yet.
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> if it was we would have taken another direction
[06:05] <sabdfl> ok, let's vote on the FG doc
[06:05] <sabdfl> +1 from me on that
[06:05] <cjwatson> I'm ok with MikeB and matthew, since the forums staff are happy
[06:05] <elmo> +1 from me on FG
[06:05] <ubuntu_demon> Great!
[06:06] <mako> +1 from me as well
[06:06] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : well chosen on matthew and mikeB
[06:06] <mako> lets edit that document to include a list of FC members
[06:06] <ubuntugeek> We will introduce the fc changes on the forums within the next week.
[06:07] <mako> ubuntugeek: sounds good
[06:07] <Seveaz> sorry folks
[06:07] <mako> Seveaz: that's fine.. i've got about a half an hour it seems
[06:08] <ubuntu_demon> So the FG did pass right ?
[06:08] <sabdfl> cjwatson: vote on the FG doc?
[06:08] <mako> ubuntu_demon: it's about to
[06:09] <sabdfl> no pressure :-)
[06:09] <ubuntu_demon> I see ... cjwatson's vote is still missing :)
[06:09] <EmxBA> there are ~25 people listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda that should be considered
[06:09] <cjwatson> no issues with the FG document, pending approval of the initial FC members
[06:09] <sabdfl> aren't they separate issues?
[06:09] <mako> EmxBA: it's extremely unlikely that we're goig to get through them all
[06:09] <sabdfl> one is process, the other is candidates?
[06:09] <cjwatson> sabdfl: erm, yeah, seems like it
[06:09] <EmxBA> mako:... nor half of them is here
[06:10] <cjwatson> so no issues from me
[06:10] <markvandenborre> I seem to remember the first 5 of them were actually voted on last time
[06:10] <sabdfl> thumbs up or down?
[06:10] <zarul> I am here
[06:10] <popey> some of us are :)
[06:10] <cjwatson> up
[06:10] <ubuntugeek> ok so we good on the fc+fg stuff?
[06:10] <zarul> and it is very hard for me who is GMT + 8 to be here
[06:10] <sabdfl> brilliant
[06:10] <jono> fantastic
[06:10] <sabdfl> OK, so CC approves the FG document, with much thanks to those who helped write it
[06:10] <ubuntu_demon> Great!
[06:10] <kalon33> cool !
[06:11] <MikeB-> woot!
[06:11] <cjwatson> open discussion on matthew wouldn't hurt, thinking about it - maybe make that one pending? shouldn't take long
[06:11] <sabdfl> we have a full house of +1's on MikeB
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> +1 matthew
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> or we cant move forward
[06:11] <sabdfl> so MikeB is on the FG, and i think it's worth asking ubuntugeek to host a discussion on matthew as the next candidate
[06:11] <sabdfl> in the forums
[06:11] <mako> we should also thanks ubuntugeek for bearing through this process.. and for all of his other work making the forums so great :)
[06:11] <PriceChild> sabdfl: public or staff discussion?
[06:11] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: yes we can, FG doc is approved, you have a council of 4 including yourself, and you have a casting vote
[06:12] <PriceChild> thanks ubuntugeek :)
[06:12] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: it doesn't seem like a blocker to start with 4 briefly?
[06:12] <sabdfl> both, if needed, so public should be fine unless stuff gets tricky
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> Like i said
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> if we cant vote the people in
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> we cant move forward
[06:12] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: you have a council, it's not at 5 people, but the FG doc calls for comment from a long list of folks and there is no thread on the forums to suggest that's happened
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> blah
[06:13] <ubuntu_demon> I trust matthew to do a good job.
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> Then we shall not move forward
[06:13] <jenda> What's the matter with matthew?
[06:13] <sabdfl> i have no doubt matthew will get the nod in the next round, but i also think we owe it to the forums users and staff to have a place they can comment on candidates
[06:13] <PriceChild> But surely now the 4 members are appointed... they can appoint the 5th immediately?
[06:13] <jenda> I think he has unanimous support among us, the forum staff?
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> OK, i am going to make this clear
[06:13] <sabdfl> PriceChild: no, the FG does not appoint its own members
[06:13] <sabdfl> sorry, FC
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> we are not moving forward at this time
[06:13] <PriceChild> sabdfl: sorry misunderstanding
[06:15] <sabdfl> well, ok, i think we have made good progress
[06:15] <sabdfl> the FG document is approved by the CC
[06:15] <sabdfl> and we have a Forums Council of 4 members
[06:15] <ubuntugeek> no we dont
[06:15] <sabdfl> that's a good start
[06:15] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: in what sense do we not?
[06:15] <ubuntugeek> Because we are not moving forward
[06:16] <cjwatson> could you please rephrase that without using the words "moving forward"? I'm having trouble working out what you mean
[06:16] <jono> ubuntugeek: what is your objection?
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> During our calls, it was implied that the initial two people who be chosen by the current admins.. we did this..
[06:17] <sabdfl> not as i recall it, anyone else who was there care to weigh in?
[06:17] <MikeB-> ubuntugeek: i think it is fine to get open discussion for both me and matthew on to the FC. I'm willing to delay my nod to the FC till next month so the community can have its say
[06:17] <sabdfl> the doc explicitly names 3 initial members
[06:17] <sabdfl> and explicitly gives a list of folks to be consulted on new appointments
[06:18] <sabdfl> and explicitly says we want to get to 5 quickly
[06:18] <ubuntugeek> ok if the three admins and the various mod's here backing people are not good enough then i am done here
[06:18] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: of course they are good enough, their voice counts
[06:18] <jono> ubuntugeek: hang on a sec, lets ensure we are all clear on what we interpreted
[06:18] <ubuntugeek> then finalize it and we can move on..
[06:18] <sabdfl> but the Forums Governance doc does not ask for "seconds from some admins or staff members"
[06:19] <sabdfl> it says the CC will not appoint folks without consulting the staff and members
[06:19] <sabdfl> mikeb had very widespread forums community support as a representative during these discussions
[06:19] <sabdfl> which is why i think the CC is happy to say that the forums staff and members have really been consulted
[06:19] <sabdfl> but matthew was not really part of that process
[06:20] <sabdfl> i think forums members will be very happy to have a thread on this nomination, and i've no doubt it will reflect well on matthew
[06:20] <sabdfl> given everything that's been said
[06:20] <sabdfl> but i don't think the CC would be meeting its obligations under the FG doc, if we just +1 matthew
[06:20] <ubuntugeek> i figured this would be like this.. thats why i was hesitant to even move forward..
[06:20] <jenda> Someone will have to resort to compromise here. I believe we should leave matthew as pending, as he is 1) not here to tell us he wants to do it 2) hasn't been discussed by the forum staff, although all of us present agree with him taking the spot.
[06:21] <sabdfl> without any evidence of a broad consultation of the forums members and staff
[06:21] <mako> i don't really have strong feelings either way on this
[06:21] <PriceChild> +1 jenda
[06:21] <ubuntu_demon> +1 jenda
[06:21] <MikeB-> +1 jenda
[06:22] <ubuntu_demon> there are some forum staff right here to support matthew though.
[06:22] <sabdfl> "some staff" is not the same as "open consultation"
[06:22] <jenda> sabdfl: +1
[06:22] <sabdfl> right, and certainly not the same as "consulting forums members"
[06:22] <sabdfl> i think it's obvious that a thread on the forums is the right way to get that open consultation
[06:23] <sabdfl> which is why i'm suggesting ubuntugeek lead that
[06:23] <sabdfl> and come back for a +1 on matthew once that's done
[06:23] <zarul> I think you should make a decision here, it seems that we are dragging this issue to no ends...
[06:23] <ubuntu_demon> then maybe we can do a staff poll and have a new CC meeting quickly (like next week) to get him on the FC and move on ?
[06:23] <jenda> matthew has not been publically discussed, and I don't see a problem with waiting till next time, till matthew can make it, or till we have at least given a chance to other forum staff to have a say.
[06:23] <mako> the agreement as i understood it was that the the admins/ubuntugeek would pick the extra two members.. but i think a consultation by the focums community/staff would probably be a good thing in either case.. since it seems that anything other than a confirmation is unlikely, i don't see any issue with doing it for matthew or even matthew and MikeB-
[06:23] <zarul> *you guys
[06:23] <sabdfl> matthew is NOT EVEN HERE
[06:23] <mako> right, i think matthew should at least show up to a CC meeting
[06:23] <ubuntugeek> BECAUSE HE COULDNT BE
[06:23] <somerville32> !caps
[06:23] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: well, let's find a time that suits him
[06:23] <maxamillion> <3 somerville32
[06:23] <jono> ok, lets calm down
[06:23] <mako> and he probably wouldn't mind seeing a thread about how everything thinks he's great :)
[06:24] <sabdfl> sorry
[06:24] <PriceChild> mako: lol :)
[06:24] <cjwatson> what timezone's he in? looks like -6
[06:24] <cjwatson> oh, no, I'm on crack
[06:25] <cjwatson> GMT
[06:25] <ubuntu_demon> IMHO let's arrange a CC meeting with matthew attending asap (like next week or something).
[06:25] <cjwatson> (managed to confuse Morocco with Mexico)
[06:25] <jenda> (there should be a meeting soon anyway, because a lot will be left over from this one so:)
[06:25] <jenda> ubuntu_demon: +1
[06:26] <EmxBA> concentrate on members that applied for membership on CommunityCouncilAgenda wiki page, if possible...?
[06:26] <zarul> EmxBA + 1
[06:26] <jenda> EmxBA: this seems like a more pressing issue to me.
[06:26] <LoudMouthMan> please . since the ukteam are mostly at work and thinking about heading home !
[06:26] <zarul> I have to go in 20 minutes....
[06:27] <PriceChild> EmxBA: I'm standing for membership too but being members is slightly insignificant compared
[06:27] <cjwatson> it's not all going to get done - we're just going to have to do what wee can
[06:27] <cjwatson> we
[06:27] <zarul> it is like 1.30 in the morning and I am at a cyber cafe right now, as I am away from hom
[06:27] <EmxBA> ok, I'll be patient
[06:27] <zarul> *home
[06:27] <kalon33> sure PriceChild
[06:27] <jono> ok, lets clarify the position where we are now
[06:27] <zarul> the cafe is closing soon
[06:27] <jono> ubuntugeek: still there?
[06:28] <sabdfl> zarul: appreciate your participation, will get to you before it closes
[06:28] <ubuntugeek> yes
[06:28] <jono> excellent :)
[06:28] <jono> ubuntugeek: what is core your objection at this point?
[06:28] <jono> just to be 100% clear
[06:28] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: from what I have seen the CC has no objection to matthew as a candidate
[06:28] <ubuntugeek> that my fears about this process have shown to be true regarding how this process is going to work.
[06:29] <sabdfl> but there is some concern that the process needs to be followed
[06:29] <sabdfl> the process is pretty clear in the FG doc we just approved
[06:29] <ubuntugeek> there (was) no process before this
[06:29] <sabdfl> that's all
[06:29] <ubuntugeek> this is clean/new document
[06:29] <ubuntugeek> a start..
[06:29] <newz2000> sorry to interupt, but I've got to go visit family in hospital now, I'm here to give a +1 for mruiz - he's been extremely active in trying to get latin america loco teams coordinated and really is busy trying to make things better for spanish speaking loco teams and ubuntu users
[06:29] <sabdfl> i have no doubt the CC would +1 matthew after a thread on the forums discussing his candidacy
[06:29] <jono> ubuntugeek: lets give the process a chance - and the agreement which you seem broadly happy with is there to secure a good, honest, consistent process
[06:29] <sabdfl> i assume no major controvery emerging in that thread, given the unilateral support
[06:30] <sabdfl> but it's important to show that we want the FG doc to mean something
[06:30] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: I'm not clear on what your fears are; I don't see anything going particularly wrong ...
[06:30] <jono> much of this is just due process ubuntugeek
[06:30] <sabdfl> i would have called for discussion on MikeB too, except I think we all feel that has already happened, in effect
[06:30] <sabdfl> newz2000: thank for the +1 on mruiz, noted
[06:30] <MikeB-> sabdfl: I'm willing to wait a month to allow discussion
[06:30] <jono> many of us got to know MikeB- and his excellent contributions at the UDS
[06:31] <jono> I am sure if we knew Matthew as well, everyone would approach this the same
[06:31] <sabdfl> and the MikeB- was really mandated by the forums community as a representative alread
[06:31] <sabdfl> y
[06:31] <jono> ubuntugeek: see what I mean?
[06:31] <MikeB-> it is only fair if Matthew and I get the same treatment
[06:31] <zarul> sorry to interrupt guys, I am worry that I won't be able to wait longer, just in case I have to go out any time soon, here is the link to my profile: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZarulShahrin
[06:31] <mako> ubuntugeek: if you think it's more fair, we might ask for comments on both.. i tend to think it would be
[06:32] <sabdfl> i'm happy with that too, let's get to zarul
[06:32] <cjwatson> it seems a bit artificial, we're obviously all happy with MikeB
[06:32] <cjwatson> but shrug
[06:32] <zarul> thank you sabdfl
[06:32] <jono> MikeB-: I think you are getting the same treatment, its just that the CC are not as familiar with Matthew (yet)
[06:32] <mako> cjwatson: fwiw, i'm also happy with matthew
[06:32] <EmxBA> zarul:
[06:32] <EmxBA> +1 for zarul
[06:32] <sabdfl> zarul: what's your LP account? URL?
[06:33] <ubuntu_demon> any input from ubuntugeek ?
[06:33] <ubuntugeek> nothing further we wont move forward until this is resolved
[06:33] <sabdfl> zarul: seems you have been active for more than a year?
[06:33] <zarul> https://launchpad.net/people/zarulshahrin/
[06:33] <sabdfl> that's great
[06:33] <zarul> sabdfl yes
[06:33] <cjwatson> I think the current action is for a thread to be opened on the forums about matthew
[06:33] <ubuntu_demon> ubuntugeek : so we can move forward after Matthew is approved at the next CC meeting ?
[06:34] <zarul> I founded MalaysianTeam in May last year
[06:34] <zarul> If I am not wrong
[06:34] <zarul> and I tried hard to promote it here
[06:34] <jono> ubuntugeek: how would you like to see it resolved
[06:34] <ubuntugeek> ubuntu_demon: no it needs to be done this meeting.. there are enough people here to back matthew.. i
[06:34] <zarul> and I am happy that we are growing now
[06:34] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on zarul, long participation, active advocacy, and team leadership
[06:34] <jono> (sorry, I know we have two threads here being discussed)
[06:35] <mako> +1 for me for zarul
[06:35] <ubuntugeek> the process in which you elect is flawed..
[06:35] <ubuntu_demon> Maybe we can focus on forumsgovernance first ? I would hate to see it break apart while we have made this much good progress.
[06:35] <ubuntugeek> if you cant agree on matthew today then dont agree on mikeb
[06:35] <zarul> thank you all
[06:35] <sabdfl> elmo? cjwatson, zarul?
[06:36] <elmo> fine with zarul.. but let's try and get FG finished?
[06:36] <cjwatson> +1 on zarul, though would like to see the malaysian team up for approval soon too since zarul's application is largely on that :-)
[06:36] <jono> ubuntu_demon: this is just a quick side discussion before zarul leaves
[06:36] <cjwatson> T-9 minutes for me
[06:36] <sabdfl> i'd like to ask the CC if they think (a) the position is the CC should follow the FG doc in appointing the 2 new FC members, or if (b) the 3 forums admins should be appointing them
[06:36] <sabdfl> for me it is clearly (a)
[06:37] <cjwatson> well, I do sort of wonder why the FG doc exists if it isn't true :-)
[06:37] <zarul> So if everything is ok, can I leave now?
[06:37] <sabdfl> for my next act, i'll be standing for head of the united nations... would be easier!
[06:37] <sabdfl> zarul: congrats and welcome!
[06:37] <gnomefreak> zarul: congrats
[06:37] <zarul> ok
[06:37] <sabdfl> (and good night, safe travels home)
[06:37] <zarul> thank you all for voting
[06:37] <zarul> cya!
[06:37] <mako> alright
[06:38] <mako> i need to run right now
[06:38] <ubuntugeek> Like I said, when i walked away from our conversations at mds .. the other two people were going to be selected by the curent admins
[06:38] <mako> i'll be back in maybe 30-45 minutes
[06:38] <MacSlow> sabdfl, this whole stuff here is so intense... a bit frightening... but most impressive nevertheless.
[06:38] <mako> but if it comes to a vote on approval of matthew, i would be happy to have him now
[06:38] <ubuntugeek> to form the initial fc team.
[06:38] <PriceChild> So the meeting is basically postponed in 5 minutes until mako returns...
[06:38] <cjwatson> I've driven LP for new members up to now (mike.basinger and zarulshahrin), but somebody else will need to take over now
[06:38] <mako> PriceChild: there are three member present
[06:38] <mako> you can work without me
[06:38] <sabdfl> mako: (a) or (b)?
[06:38] <cjwatson> mako: two as of 7 minutes from now
[06:38] <PriceChild> mako: cjwatson said something about 9 minutes
[06:39] <mako> sabdfl: what?
[06:39] <cjwatson> mako: 17:36 < sabdfl> i'd like to ask the CC if they think (a) the position is the CC should follow the FG doc in appointing the 2 new FC members, or if (b) the 3 forums admins should be appointing them
[06:39] <elmo> I think (a) makes the most sense, simply because this is going to be the FC for the next year or so
[06:39] <mako> cjwatson: for the initial bootstrap phase, that is right now, i think (b) would be appropriate and in line with our previous discussions
[06:39] <cjwatson> FWIW I've no objection to generally following the forums admins' recommendations, but I'd like a chance to actually evaluate rather than just rubber-stamp, that's all
[06:40] <mako> but i'm not opposed to (a) either don't really see why anybody would be
[06:40] <sabdfl> ok, so 3 for (a) and 1 for (b)
[06:40] <cjwatson> I can only be +0 on matthew simply because I've never talked to him
[06:40] <mako> it will only make the position of those people more justified in the eyes of their constituency
[06:40] <ubuntugeek> ok i am done here
[06:40] <sabdfl> and matthew is not here now
[06:40] <ubuntugeek> good day
[06:40] <cjwatson> I don't *object*, just it's impossible to say an outright yes
[06:40] <MikeB-> ryan , please wait
[06:40] <mako> alright.. i need to disappear.. sorry!
[06:40] <sabdfl> ok, i will start the thread on the forums, to give the staff and users an opportunity to discuss matthew
[06:40] <jenda> ...
[06:40] <mako> a lab sponsor is waiting
[06:40] <sabdfl> if mikeb prefer to be on the same platform, then that's fine too
[06:40] <mako> bbiab
[06:40] <jenda> That doesn't help the forums, does it :/
[06:41] <ubuntu_demon> Can we please schedule a new CC meeting very soon to handle this FG ?
[06:41] <PriceChild> :(
[06:41] <MikeB-> nope
[06:41] <sabdfl> ubuntu_demon: yes
[06:41] <sabdfl> MikeB-: ?
[06:41] <ubuntugeek> wrong window.. i am going to watch this mess that is all
[06:42] <sabdfl> ok
[06:42] <sabdfl> next?
[06:42] <ubuntugeek> clearly what we discussed on the phone about this and how its playing out here is two different things
[06:42] <EmxBA> can CC consider my candidation for member approval?
[06:42] <cjwatson> surely worst case the practical effect is that it takes two weeks longer to get the FC going? I really don't see the big deal
[06:42] <gnomefreak> EmxBA: we are running low on CC memebers
[06:42] <EmxBA> i see
[06:43] <MacSlow> hi BenC
[06:43] <BenC> hello
[06:44] <kalon33> hi BenC
[06:44] <mc44> ubuntugeek: if athread is opened on matthew and there is a concensus then the CC approves him to the FC, would you be happy to move forward
[06:44] <somerville32> sabdfl, Next on the agenda would be Call for nominations for the "Localisation / Translation Team Leader".
[06:44] <elmo> ubuntugeek: FWIW, I couldn't confidently claim that (a) is what was agreed to on the phone, it's possible it _was_ (b), but would you not be willing to consider (a) and the (IMO) advantages it has?
[06:45] <sabdfl> which forum would be the appropriate one for me to start those threads?
[06:45] <MacSlow> somerville32, was topic regarding IRC/Freenode skipped?
[06:45] <somerville32> MacSlow: no.
[06:45] <gnomefreak> MacSlow: no we are staying on freenode
[06:45] <markvandenborre> it was discussed in the beginning
[06:45] <ubuntu_demon> hi BenC
[06:46] <MacSlow> somerville32, gnomefreak: ah so just the wiki-page is missing an update here ? Try reloading
[06:46] <sabdfl> i think (a) vs (b) was never explicitly discussed, i assumed it was clearly (a), ubuntugeek obviously assumed differently
[06:46] <PriceChild> sabdfl: Cafe... and we could sticky it?
[06:46] <cjwatson> ok, I have to go, sorry folks
[06:46] <sabdfl> nonetheless, the CC voted for following the FG document process
[06:46] <MacSlow> cu cjwatson
[06:46] <ubuntugeek> elmo: sure the issue i have is if you can't back both right now don't back either
[06:46] <gnomefreak> see  you cjwatson
[06:46] <sabdfl> thanks cjwatson
[06:47] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: that's fine, i think MikeB has said he's open to that
[06:47] <kalon33> good bye cjwatson
[06:47] <jono> ok ubuntugeek is here
[06:47] <sabdfl> so i will open two threads
[06:47] <elmo> ubuntugeek: sure, that's perfectly reasonable, happy to do that
[06:47] <ubuntugeek> now i still strongly object to to the way its handled
[06:47] <elmo> ubuntugeek: in what way?
[06:48] <ubuntugeek> if you cant trust us to form an initial team then clearly down the road we will have the same issues
[06:48] <sabdfl> it's Mike Basinger and Matthew ?
[06:48] <gnomefreak> sabdfl: can we set a meeting for either later this week sometime next week to finish the forums item. since the threads will be open it should be a fast vote?
[06:48] <MikeB-> sabdfl and ubuntugeek: I'm fine with that
[06:48] <elmo> ubuntugeek: we can and do trust you, we've all provisionally +1'ed on both mike and matthew.  the issue is that we'd like the forums community to have a chance to participate
[06:48] <sabdfl> what's Matthew's surname?
[06:48] <sabdfl> and forums nicks for both?
[06:48] <ubuntugeek> matthew
[06:48] <ubuntugeek> mike
[06:49] <ubuntu_demon> Mike Basinger's nick is mike
[06:49] <jenda> sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/people/matthelmke
[06:49] <elmo> ubuntugeek: this after all is going to be their forums council for a year, it seems fair to given them a chance to have some input, don't you think?
[06:49] <jenda> Helmke
[06:49] <jono> ubuntugeek: do you feel the forums community will be happy with mikeb and matthew on the FC
[06:50] <jenda> ^ there goes one of our admins :/ he didn't seem too talkative today anyway.
[06:50] <ubuntugeek> jono: yep i do
[06:51] <jono> ubuntugeek: if so, why not just let the due process happen if the community would be happen with them?
[06:51] <ubuntugeek> jono: thats fine do as you wish
[06:52] <sabdfl>   http://www.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?p=1876854#post1876854
[06:52] <jono> ubuntugeek: ok, so you are happy for us to continue?
[06:52] <jenda> So - would everyone agree with this: we open a thread on the staff forums now, and ask staff to approve the 5 member council as discussed here. If there are no objections by the next CC meeting - we consider it complete?
[06:52] <MikeB-> could we start a Forum council area in the forums and have Matthew and I FC  voted discuessed and voted on there, all people could read, but only forum staff and CC members could write?
[06:53] <sabdfl> what's matthew's surname?
[06:53] <ubuntugeek> matthew
[06:53] <SD-Plissken> jenda sabdfl alread started a topic in the cafe it seems
[06:53] <ubuntugeek> jono: sure i dont really have a choice
[06:53] <sabdfl> surname, not nick?
[06:53] <ubuntugeek> jono: you guys got me by the balls this time around..
[06:54] <jono> ubuntugeek: you *do* have a choice - this is not about forcing something out of you - it is about asking if you are happy with due process
[06:54] <jenda> sabdfl: Helmke
[06:54] <jono> ubuntugeek: if you are happy with that, we can move forward
[06:54] <ubuntugeek> jono: thats fine.. so to recap.. FG is approved and the FC +3 admins is approved..
[06:54] <ubuntugeek> correct?
[06:54] <MacSlow> hi matthewrevell
[06:54] <sabdfl> http://www.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?p=1876865#post1876865
[06:55] <MikeB-> how is the baby matthewrevell
[06:55] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: yes
[06:55] <ubuntugeek> ok
[06:55] <sabdfl> FC consisting of 3 current admins
[06:55] <ubuntugeek> Next time.. lets be more clear on how this is going to work
[06:55] <sabdfl> fair enough
[06:55] <ubuntugeek> and id idnt even swear today :)
[06:55] <jono> ubuntugeek: I think we can always improve communication - 95% of problems are simply misunderstandings
[06:55] <sabdfl> ok, could you guys make those threads sticky, and give them a wide pumping for wide discussion?
[06:55] <jono> ubuntugeek: :P
[06:55] <PriceChild> sabdfl: shall i rename both topics to "Potential..." instead of just the one?
[06:56] <mneptok> ubuntugeek: it's never too late >:)
[06:56] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: sure
[06:56] <MikeB-> ubuntugeek: beard
[06:56] <ubuntugeek> and goddamn it.. i hope this gets done with soon..
[06:56] <ubuntugeek> ;)
[06:56] <sabdfl> PriceChild: technically, they HAVE been nominated, and the CC is looking for background to make the appointments
[06:56] <ubuntu_demon> Will the CC schedule an extra meeting soon ? Instead of having to wait for a month ?
[06:56] <jenda> ubuntugeek: except for the 'balls' part ;)
[06:56] <ubuntugeek> jenda: balls isnt swearing
[06:57] <elmo> ubuntu_demon: yes
[06:57] <jenda>
[06:57] <sabdfl> alrighty!
[06:57] <ubuntu_demon> great
[06:57] <jono> balls!
[06:57] <jono> :P
[06:57] <popey> \o/ balls
[06:57] <PriceChild> sabdfl: its just odd having the "Potential" the wrong way around considering discussions that have already taken part
[06:57] <jono> good stuff
[06:57] <sabdfl> jono wants to be the 1000000th person to say "balls" on TV
[06:57] <jono> popey: too excited about balls there...
[06:57] <sabdfl> with feeling
[06:57] <jono> woo!
[06:57] <sabdfl> what's next?
[06:57] <mneptok> ubuntugeek: it's never too late >:) (x2)
[06:57] <ubuntugeek> menptok: if i really could unleash i would trust me :)
[06:57] <sabdfl> UK team?
[06:57] <popey> \o/
[06:58] <MacSlow> sabdfl, call for nominations on "Localisation / Translation Team Leader"  I believe
[06:58] <PriceChild> isn't there only 2 CC members present right now?
[06:58] <LoudMouthMan> huh what ?
[06:58] <sabdfl> some things i think we can +1 with me and one other
[06:59] <sabdfl> so loco's we can do, members we can do
[06:59] <somerville32> :)
[06:59] <GazzaK> yay, great
[06:59] <mneptok> ooo! members?! let people applying or vouching move on?
[06:59] <PriceChild> good good :)
[06:59] <sabdfl> ok, loco's - UK team?
[06:59] <sabdfl> go go go!
[06:59] <jenda> sabdfl: are we changing the rules in the middle of the game here? :)
[06:59] <ubuntu_demon> One question : should we defer Forum Staff to become Ubuntu Member until the next meeting so the CC can guide the FC at the next meeting ? That might be a nice way of smoothing the membership approval process
[06:59] <sabdfl> niiice wiki page
[07:00] <sabdfl> jenda: i do have a casting vote
[07:00] <jenda> sabdfl: I'm not arguing
[07:00] <sabdfl> i think we can auto+1 all current forums staff for membership right away
[07:00] <sabdfl> elmo?
[07:00] <jenda> sabdfl: really?
[07:00] <PriceChild> sabdfl: really?
[07:00] <PriceChild> :D
[07:00] <elmo> as long as they've been staff for > 1 month, sure
[07:01] <popey> LoudMouthMan: you're on
[07:01] <sabdfl> fair enough
[07:01] <PriceChild> sabdfl: those that are applying of course.... not all want it
[07:01] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl : some forum staff might not want to become Ubuntu Members
[07:01] <LoudMouthMan> Sorry , I can see a UKteam conversarion I just cant see the question  ?
[07:01] <sabdfl> i *think* FG makes that a must-do?
[07:01] <kalon33> sorry, got a bug...
[07:01] <popey> agenda item is up now LoudMouthMan
[07:01] <PriceChild> sabdfl: I thought it only meant they should abide by the CoC...
[07:01] <sabdfl> ok
[07:01] <sabdfl> you're right
[07:01] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: we cant force them to be ubuntu members
[07:01] <elmo> PriceChild: that's implied by "auto+1", we wouldn't force membership on anyone
[07:01] <PriceChild> just checking :)
[07:01] <LoudMouthMan> Yes, okay well the UKTeam is applying for Approval and submitted its application to Jono for the councils consideration.
[07:01] <ubuntugeek> we have alot of good staff who just dont want to be that deep into it..
[07:01] <sabdfl> so, who's here, forums staff for more than 1 month?
[07:02] <PriceChild> I know several feel strongly about that
[07:02] <PriceChild> sabdfl: Me me me!!!
[07:02] <LoudMouthMan> but , popey , i think theres a overhanging thread here  .
[07:02] <MikeB-> +1 for pricechild
[07:02] <SD-Plissken> What is price of being an ubuntumember pricechild. what do you have to give up to be a member such a team..
[07:02] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for pricechild :)
[07:02] <gnomefreak> sabdfl: i would like to cheer for a few memebers i hav e ameeting to go to. i +1 for Christoffer Karvonen TravisWatkins Tony Yarusso and CodySomerville
[07:02] <sabdfl> confirm PriceChild is forums staff / moderator for more than a month?
[07:02] <ubuntugeek> +1 for all our staff who wants it
[07:02] <PriceChild> SD-Plissken: I don't believe there's anything I have to give up...
[07:03] <sabdfl> thanks gnomefreak
[07:03] <gnomefreak> :) later
[07:03] <sabdfl> PriceChild: what's your launchpad nick?
[07:03] <ubuntu_demon> sabdfl : yes pricechild has been Forum Staff for more than one month
[07:03] <frodon> +1 for PriceChild
[07:03] <PriceChild> https://launchpad.net/people/pricechild/
[07:03] <jenda> sabdfl, elmo, just a BTW, there is a LP team indicating the forums staff: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntuforums-staff
[07:03] <jenda> I can't guarantee it's 100% accurate, some of the new ones may be missing.
[07:04] <PriceChild> SD-Plissken: becoming a member means I am bound by the CoC. This is just common decency to me and therefore in my opinon nothing to give up
[07:04] <kalon33> do you process by alphabetical order to consider ubuntu member candidates ?
[07:04] <sabdfl> PriceChild: congrats, and welcome!
[07:04] <PriceChild> Thanks :D
[07:04] <LoudMouthMan> sabdfl you asked about UKTeam, we have submitted the approval page for councils consideration do you have any further questinos ?
[07:04] <theCore> are going to have enough time to do some member nominations, today?
[07:04] <apokryphos> PriceChild: being an ubuntero bounds you to that too. Little more to it.
[07:04] <ubuntu_demon> congrats pricechild ! :)
[07:04] <SD-Plissken> Thats all Pricechild.. hope there was no fine print.. lol
[07:04] <kalon33> congrats PriceChild
[07:04] <effie_jayx> PriceChild,  :D
[07:04] <frodon> congrats pricey ;)
[07:04] <sabdfl> LoudMouthMan: sorry, got diverted into low-hanging-fruit forums moderator membership approvals
[07:05] <sabdfl> anybody else in the forums moderator applying for membership crowd?
[07:05] <ubuntugeek> I just spoke with Kingbahamut please +1 him for ubuntu meber he is an exceptional forum staff member..
[07:05] <ubuntugeek> he is unable to get on irc
[07:05] <ubuntu_demon> mikeB is applying for Ubuntu membership
[07:05] <ubuntugeek> ud: we already did mikeb
[07:05] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: LP name?
[07:05] <PriceChild> ubuntu_demon: MikeB has already been accepted hasn't he?
[07:05] <sabdfl> yes, he has
[07:05] <sabdfl> matthew?
[07:06] <PriceChild> matthew is already a member isn't he?
[07:06] <sabdfl> is approved already
[07:06] <ubuntu_demon> ow sorry okay :)
[07:06] <elmo> ok, you guys get -0.005 for using "syngeristic" in your approval application wiki page
[07:06] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: LP name for KingBahamut?
[07:06] <elmo> (synergistic even or however it's spelt)
[07:06] <ubuntu_demon> elmo : what does syngreristic mean ?
[07:06] <elmo> ubuntu_demon: ... exactly ;-)
[07:06] <ubuntugeek> Bill weber
[07:06] <mneptok> syringerific
[07:07] <PriceChild> https://launchpad.net/people/gwosbahamut
[07:07] <EmxBA> sorry, bad connection :)
[07:07] <PriceChild> ^ KingBahamut
[07:07] <elmo> anyway, I'm +1 on the UK team
[07:07] <elmo> (sorry, if we haven't got back to the loco team yet)
[07:07] <GazzaK> :-) thanks elmo
[07:07] <sabdfl> as far as i can see, he has not applied for ubuntumember
[07:07] <jono> the UK team have done some excellent work
[07:07] <jenda> King Bahamut has also been doing some impressive work on doc.gwos.org/com
[07:07] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for King Bahamut
[07:08] <jono> they have a strong structure and a number of keen contributors - they also have a good direction forward
[07:08] <jono> +1 for me
[07:08] <MikeB-> +1 for me
[07:08] <SD-Plissken> +1 for King Bahamut
[07:08] <PriceChild> +1 KB
[07:08] <frodon> +1 for KingBahamut as well
[07:08] <PriceChild> +1 UKTeam
[07:09] <sabdfl> ok, kingbahamut is done
[07:09] <sabdfl> +1 from me on the UK team
[07:09] <popey> w000t
[07:09] <apokryphos> nice 8)
[07:09] <jamesbrose> yay!
[07:09] <popey> Go us!
[07:09] <LoudMouthMan> So , sabdfl can I report back to the UKTeam that we have apporval ?  and thanks to everyone for the votes, it is much appreciated.
[07:09] <sabdfl> LoudMouthMan: all done - and welcome!
[07:09] <sabdfl> very classy wiki page
[07:09] <somerville32> Burgwork, ping.
[07:09] <sabdfl> the status chart for projects is particularly cool, IMO
[07:10] <Burgwork> somerville32: pong
[07:10] <LoudMouthMan> sabdfl thank you , I will pass the comments on to the team.
[07:10] <ubuntugeek> +1 for SD-plissken for ubutnu-member he is a staff as well..
[07:10] <anto9us> woohoo!
[07:10] <Amaranth> woo i made it
[07:10] <jono> congrats LoudMouthMan
[07:10] <ubuntu_demon> +1 for SD-plissken
[07:10] <jono> LoudMouthMan: I look forward to you leveraging synergies and fullfilling verticale markets
[07:10] <GazzaK> lol @ jono
[07:10] <popey> HOUSE!
[07:10] <frodon> +1 for SD-plissken as well
[07:10] <jenda> SD-Plissken has been a good moderator for several months
[07:10] <LoudMouthMan> jono indeed, ill run those ideas up the flag pole soon enough
[07:10] <GazzaK> if he starts on that, I'm moving to tibet
[07:10] <frodon> LP : https://launchpad.net/people/sd-plissken
[07:11] <EmxBA> can someone consider my application for becoming ubuntu member?
[07:11] <sabdfl> SD-Plissken: done, welcome aboard
[07:11] <PriceChild> well done SD
[07:11] <MikeB-> EmxBA:  what is your wiki
[07:11] <ubuntu_demon> congrats SD-Plissken :)
[07:11] <markvandenborre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
[07:11] <jenda> EmxBA: can you link to your wiki and LP to make it easier?
[07:11] <frodon> congrat SD-Plissken :)
[07:11] <SD-Plissken> Thanks all
[07:11] <EmxBA> wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmirBeganovic and LP  https://launchpad.net/people/emxba
[07:12] <sabdfl> MacSlow has an excellent track record upstream
[07:12] <sabdfl> also made good contributions at UDS Mountain View
[07:12] <kalon33> congrats SD-Plissken
[07:12] <theCore> are we at the memberships yet?
[07:12] <EmxBA> i've signed CoC, haev more than 80k+ karma points, translated many things into bosnian language
[07:12] <dholbach> MacSlow is my favourite friendly flipping hacker in the Ubuntu community and I'm happy to see his cairo-clock in Ubuntu's Universe already.
[07:12] <PriceChild> theCore: sort of
[07:12] <somerville32> Can we finish up the locoteam approvals and then come back to Membership approval? :]
[07:12] <sabdfl> MacSlow: where are you making ubuntu-specific contributions
[07:12] <theCore> then, ping me we it's my turn
[07:12] <sabdfl> ?
[07:13] <MagicFab> LP: https://launchpad.net/people/magicfab
[07:13] <MacSlow> sabdfl, https://launchpad.net/people/macslow/+packages
[07:13] <La_PaRCa> I am MagicFab's fanclub
[07:13] <MacSlow> my upstream http://macslow.thepimp.net/cairo-clock
[07:13] <seb128> MacSlow is doing some good job
[07:13] <MikeB-> EmxBA: impressive translations, +1 from me
[07:13] <EmxBA> my translations - https://translations.launchpad.net/people/emxba/+translations
[07:13] <sabdfl> sorry guys, one at a time, and I messed up by jumping to macslow
[07:13] <MacSlow> I do a bit guerilla-marketing KungFu on enemy-territory -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/41128780@N00/296376139 http://www.flickr.com/photos/41128780@N00/296376031 http://www.flickr.com/photos/41128780@N00/296375822 http://www.flickr.com/photos/41128780@N00/197579312
[07:13] <seb128> nice to have cairo-clock to universe and him around looking at bling ;)
[07:13] <sabdfl> but let's wrap up with him, then do everyone else in order of the agenda
[07:14] <seb128> looks really good
[07:14] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for MacSlow on the basis of packaging contributions and votes form seb and dholbach
[07:14] <elmo> +1 for MacSlow too
[07:14] <sabdfl> welcome aboard, MacSlow
[07:15] <popey> congrats MacSlow
[07:15] <kalon33> Congrats MacSlow
[07:15] <dholbach> and what I saw from the future ubuntu hacks department already looks great too :-)
[07:15] <MacSlow> sabdfl, cool thanks!
[07:15] <elmo> ok, who's up next?
[07:15] <elmo> johan lundmark - here?
[07:15] <sabdfl> MacSlow: could you edit your LP display name to be "Mirco Mueller" with all the right dots?
[07:15] <seb128> MacSlow: well done ;)
[07:15] <MikeB-> later all, have a meeting at work. thanks for lively discussion
[07:15] <ubuntu_demon> congrats MaCSlow
[07:15] <markvandenborre> elmo, Iranian team?
[07:15] <ubuntu_demon> bye MikeB-
[07:15] <MacSlow> thanks everybody!
[07:15] <elmo> ah, we missed some loco teams
[07:15] <elmo> ok, skipping back
[07:16] <fernando> congrats MacSlow
[07:16] <elmo> canadian or iranian loco team represnetatives here?
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> lophyte: Burgwork ping
[07:16] <kalon33> jono: canadian loco team representative ?
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> elmo: I'm a member - but not who was going to be representing.
[07:16] <ubuntugeek> bye all
[07:16] <elmo> tonyyarusso: who was?
[07:16] <MagicFab> I am a member too
[07:17] <sabdfl> tonyyarusso: you could still present
[07:17] <MagicFab> URL: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-ca
[07:17] <kalon33> bye ubuntugeek
[07:17] <jono> kalon33: I don't know who it is, but they have not popped up yet
[07:17] <somerville32> elmo: Our leader, Burgundavia :]
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> elmo: Burgwork , preferably, but I think he might be having issues with being caught at work
[07:17] <MagicFab> Also - http://ubuntu-ca.org/
[07:17] <elmo> Burgwork: ping?
[07:17] <jono> ahhh corey runs the team?
[07:17] <jono> ok
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> yes
[07:18] <somerville32> We had a meeting just the other day too, we're making some good head way :]
[07:18] <sabdfl> ok, i'm sure corey will be here in a future meeting
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> Yep - see meeting logs from Sat night UTC-6
[07:18] <sabdfl> let's kepe going with members
[07:18] <sabdfl> keep, that is
[07:18] <MacSlow> sabdfl, move both, my launchpad- and wiki-page, to MircoMueller instead of MacSlow?!
[07:18] <tonyyarusso> (He might be back yet today too - will let you know)
[07:18] <somerville32> What about Iranian Team?
[07:18] <MagicFab> MacSlow, you can redirect, I'll show you how (msg)
[07:18] <elmo> somerville32: I don't think they have a representative here
[07:18] <jono> somerville32: no representation here
[07:19] <sabdfl> MacSlow: just change the "display name" (not the account name) on the LP one
[07:19] <somerville32> Alrighty :]
[07:19] <elmo> ok, so members
[07:19] <sabdfl> macslow is fine as an account name
[07:19] <MacSlow> sabdfl, ah ok
[07:19] <sabdfl> Johan Lundmark?
[07:19] <markvandenborre> the first 5 were already taken care of in the previous meeting
[07:19] <elmo> sabdfl: nope
[07:19] <markvandenborre> but not scrapped for some reason
[07:19] <ubuntu_demon> I'll be away. Ping me if you need me.
[07:19] <sabdfl> markvandenborre: you're up!
[07:19] <markvandenborre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
[07:19] <markvandenborre> Belgian team lead
[07:19] <sabdfl> were the first 5 all approved?
[07:20] <sabdfl> duelling banjos!
[07:20] <elmo> sabdfl: andrew wasn't yet
[07:20] <elmo> sabdfl: michael biena was
[07:20] <sabdfl> wow, awesome list of contributions, markvandenborre
[07:20] <sabdfl> how's the belgian free software scene shaping up?
[07:20] <elmo> sabdfl: paul schulz was.. [shall I just edit the wiki page? :)]
[07:21] <markvandenborre> it's rocking... you really should come to FOSDEM and experience it yourself
[07:21] <sabdfl> elmo: i'm editing...
[07:21] <elmo> sabdfl: ok, Sridhar Dhanapalan  was also approved
[07:21] <sabdfl> ok, very clear +1 from me for mark on the back of a very long period of participation and lots of diverse contributions
[07:21] <La_PaRCa> haha, you even have an endorsements section
[07:22] <GnuKemist> markvandenborre: seems to represent the Belgium team's best interest really well
[07:22] <markvandenborre> sabdfl, thx!
[07:22] <elmo> +1 for mark
[07:22] <sabdfl> welcome aboard, mark!
[07:22] <kalon33> congrats markvandenborre !
[07:22] <dinda> Congrats Mark V!
[07:22] <seanh> I have to leave in about 15 mins., I'm applying for membership
[07:22] <jono> congrats markvandenborre
[07:22] <JanC> congrats looksaus  ;)
[07:23] <kalon33> me too... :/
[07:23] <MacSlow> markvandenborre, congratulations
[07:23] <GnuKemist> markvandenborre: sing that Belgium song you were singing at the UDS  ;)
[07:23] <markvandenborre> :)
[07:23] <elmo> seanh: ok, let's do you now then
[07:23] <markvandenborre> bye
[07:24] <sabdfl> seanh: very nice page, too
[07:24] <seanh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanHammond
[07:24] <sabdfl> congrats on the oo.o advocacy!
[07:24] <seanh> thanks
[07:25] <sabdfl> +1 from me for seanh, on the back of very extensive advocacy
[07:25] <elmo> seanh: "I've been contributing to Ubuntu for two or three years." .. careful, almost in danger of time warping ;-)
[07:25] <Burgwork> elmo: sorry, work is absolutely crazy here
[07:25] <Burgwork> I am here now
[07:25] <seanh> heh, well, since the first release
[07:25] <elmo> but +1 from me also for seanh
[07:25] <MacSlow> seanh, gee you've been busy!
[07:25] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard, seanh!
[07:26] <seanh> cool, thanks
[07:26] <elmo> Burgwork: ok, let's do .ca loco now then?
[07:26] <kalon33> congrats seanh
[07:26] <Burgwork> elmo: lets go
[07:28] <elmo> (sorry, just reading)
[07:28] <Amaranth> *cricket*
[07:28] <MacSlow> elmo, anything right now still needed for newly approved members to do?
[07:28] <elmo> Burgwork: anything I should know ;-)
[07:28] <jonh_wendell> Hi, folks. When you can, please consider me for member approval
[07:28] <Burgwork> we are a pretty active with, with many of our members active in other ubuntu teams
[07:28] <Amaranth> jonh_wendell: we're almost to you, just hang on a bit
[07:28] <Burgwork> and we have the canonical support office
[07:29] <Burgwork> although it is questionable how much work they actually do :)
[07:29] <jono> I just looked at the canadian application
[07:29] <jono> I think there needs to be a better fleshed out roadmap
[07:29] <sabdfl> Burgwork: errrr
[07:29] <sivang> heh
[07:29] <sivang> (hi all)
[07:30] <jono> if the team could expand and possibly delegate volunteers to the roadmap, I think we are looking good
[07:30] <EmxBA> http://pastebin.ca/276788 - that's something about me
[07:30] <Burgwork> jono: sure
[07:30] <jono> Burgwork: if you can expand the roadmap and I am happy to approve if the CC would like me to
[07:31] <Burgwork> jono: now or on the wiki?
[07:31] <MagicFab> Burgwork, I can chip in that roadmap - we already have some work on that here (QC)
[07:31] <jono> Burgwork: later on the wiki
[07:31] <Burgwork> ok, will do
[07:31] <jono> I just think you need to better clarify your direction :)
[07:31] <Burgwork> alright
[07:31] <jamonation> Burgwork, jono lophyte says he's happy to help with that
[07:31] <jono> sabdfl: elmo happy if I look over the Canadian team's update roadmap and if it is suitable approe it?
[07:32] <tonyyarusso> I think that is beginning to get better, as we are planning to do regular meetings now.
[07:32] <elmo> jono: works for me
[07:32] <tonyyarusso> There's a lot going on, so the mtgs will help everyone know what they are and where they stand.
[07:32] <kalon33> Sorry elmo, jono, sabdfl, all, I'm a candidate for becoming an Ubuntu member and I've to go in 15 minutes... :/
[07:32] <sabdfl> jono: perfectly
[07:32] <jono> ok cool
[07:32] <elmo> ok, so
[07:32] <elmo> kalon33: your next, go
[07:32] <jono> Burgwork: ping me when it is updated
[07:33] <Burgwork> jono: will do
[07:33] <kalon33> now elmo ?
[07:33] <elmo> kalon33: yes
[07:33] <kalon33> thanks
[07:33] <kalon33> Hello all, I'm kalon33, and my real name is Nicolas Derive. I'm a French student in biology at Bordeaux 2 university. My contributions to ubuntu are translations, bugs report and triage, and support to other users. Details are availiable on my wiki page. Any questions ?
[07:33] <kalon33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kalon33
[07:34] <MagicFab> What's the order ?
[07:34] <elmo> MagicFab: the order's pretty flexible right now, because we haven't had a meeting in so long - we normally go in application order
[07:35] <kalon33> sorry MagicFab... I apologize for it...
[07:35] <elmo> kalon33: how long have you been around and doing translations, triage etc.?
[07:35] <MagicFab> well, go kalon33
[07:36] <kalon33> since Dapper for translations and bug report (because I tested it too)
[07:36] <kalon33> triage for... 2 or 3 months
[07:36] <elmo> kalon33: ok
[07:36] <kalon33> and support for 1-2 months I think.
[07:37] <elmo> +1 from me for kalon33 on the basis of his translation and triage work
[07:37] <elmo> sabdfl: ?
[07:37] <kalon33> I'm using Ubuntu since July 2005, and started Dapper testing on January 2006.
[07:37] <sabdfl> +1 - welcome aboard kalon33!
[07:37] <elmo> ok, who's next in order
[07:37] <kalon33> and Edgy in July.
[07:38] <elmo> theCore: still here?
[07:38] <kalon33> thanks elmo, sabdfl
[07:38] <theCore> yes
[07:38] <theCore> I'm Alexandre Vassalotti, a Science student in Quebec, Canada. I plan to go in Computer Science and I will probably do a career as a software developer. I been active in the Ubuntu community for a little bit more than a year. I'm currently mastering Python and C. I plan to use my skills to make Ubuntu even better. -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandreVassalotti
[07:39] <EtienneG> theCore, where are you located ?  I am in Mtl, used to live in Qubec City
[07:39] <MagicFab> theCore, consider joining https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-qc :)
[07:39] <theCore> EtienneG: near Montreal
[07:39] <jbailey> As all the Qubec folks poke their heads in. =)
[07:39] <EtienneG> yes ... *please*
[07:39] <theCore> EtienneG: Ile Perrot
[07:39] <Keybuk> Alexandre did the upstart logo </trivia>
[07:39] <tonyyarusso> theCore also is one of the folks who gives quizzes in #ubuntu-trivia for a mix of fun and learning.  :)
[07:39] <Keybuk> so has my full support :)
[07:39] <EtienneG> theCore, cool
[07:39] <GazzaK> triva is great :-)
[07:39] <theCore> MagicFab: sure
[07:39] <EtienneG> are active in MLUG andor FACIL ?
[07:39] <kalon33> +1 for theCore, who works a lot with support and bug triage.
[07:40] <kalon33> goodbye all, thanks for all :)
[07:40] <anto9us> theCore has worked very hard in lots of areas one of which has been the IRC channel #ubuntu-trivia to which he's given unselfish and unrelenting commitment to the education and entertainment of others, it's growing popular too :)
[07:41] <sfllaw> I'm throwing in my hat for theCore as well.
[07:41] <dholbach> the whole -ca mafia is around :)
[07:42] <elmo> ok, +1 from me to theCore on the basis of his incredible support work etc.
[07:42] <Amaranth> Can I go next? I've got to leave soon.
[07:42] <elmo> sabdfl: ?
[07:42] <jenda> I can definitely vouch for theCore :)
[07:42] <mako-away> hmm
[07:42] <sivang> Amaranth: aren't already a member? :)
[07:42] <Amaranth> sivang: sort of
[07:42] <mako> fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for those here, things still seem to be in metion :)
[07:42] <jenda> Based on amazing work with #ubuntu-trivia and some contribution to UWN
[07:43] <Amaranth> sivang: that's why i'm hoping this won't take long
[07:43] <dsas_> I'm one of many that enjoy the friday quiz too :)
[07:44] <elmo> ok, let's start on amaranth while sabdfl's afk and mako's catching up
[07:44] <elmo> (assuming mako's willing to continue :)
[07:44] <PriceChild> I'll cheerlead on Amaranth
[07:44] <elmo> ok, I'll continue the skipping out of order thing, sorry for anyone this affects
[07:44] <popey> :(
[07:44] <mneptok> i can endorse Amaranth. i have seen him active not only with Ubuntu itself, but upstream at GNOME as well.
[07:45] <elmo> Amaranth: go
[07:45] <Amaranth> Alright. Well, my name is Travis Watkins, I've been here before and been approved, just missed some little details. Hoping this won't take long. :) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TravisWatkins
[07:45] <elmo> Amaranth: what's willowNG?
[07:45] <elmo> might want to link to it on your wiki page
[07:45] <Keybuk> Amaranth also has my support, he's been pretty active on #upstart
[07:45] <dholbach> Amaranth: I tought you already were member
[07:45] <Amaranth> Oh, and I bring the bling! ;) Doing some work on compiz and beryl but mostly focusing on configuration frontends.
[07:45] <Amaranth> dholbach: haha
[07:45] <cbx33> Amaranth, is a star, has always been a great help to me and the whole of edubuntu ;)
[07:46] <dholbach> he's been active with smeg (now alacarte) too and it's been easy to work with him on bugs and all
[07:46] <Amaranth> elmo: I wish ogra was here to explain, I'm bad at this.
[07:46] <mneptok> oh, Amaranth can also take a punch. face or groin. very handy.
[07:46] <GazzaK> can I be a fanboy for Amaranth too, as he has really helped me out, and others on irc, with beryl and other things
[07:46] <Amaranth> It's a web proxy that uses bayesian filtering to block unwanted content.
[07:46] <elmo> Amaranth: ah, I see, interesting
[07:47] <elmo> ok, +1 from me on amaranth on the basis of all the development work and fanboys (et al.)
[07:47] <cbx33> heheh
[07:47] <Amaranth> if it helps, "i bring bling" ;)
[07:47] <somerville32> +1 for Amaranth :]
[07:47] <elmo> Amaranth: doesn't do anything for me, but I'm sure it'll help with sabdfl
[07:47] <cbx33> Bling Bling Amaranth
[07:47] <elmo> ok, pirast around?
[07:47] <ogra> Amaranth, ?
[07:47] <MacSlow> Amaranth, that always helps :)
[07:48] <seb128> Amaranth: hint, you want to work on compiz ;)
[07:48] <elmo> ok, MagicFab you're up
[07:48] <Amaranth> seb128: I work on both. :)
[07:48] <MacSlow> Amaranth, you need to work on compiz! ;)
[07:48] <seb128> Amaranth: compiz is better ;)
[07:48] <MagicFab> elmo ok
[07:48] <ogra> Amaranth has my full support if he commits to make willowng work again in feisty ;)
[07:48] <MagicFab> I work on advocacy, translations, local support & translations. Sometimes I pitch in to answer the most-recent unanswered forum posts, sometimes I'll go spend hours on putting Xubuntu on those old macs. These days I am focused on making the ubuntu-co (Colombia) and ubuntu-qc (Quebec, Canada) teams official.
[07:48] <MagicFab> Oh, and I tried bling on a PIII-500 - it works! :D
[07:48] <MagicFab> URL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez
[07:48] <elmo> (I'm just blithely carrying on - we'll get a vote from sabdfl at least on people we've done, before we end the meeting)
[07:48] <Amaranth> ogra: hehe, i'll look sometime this week
[07:49] <ogra> MacSlow, seb128 he should first finish his older projects ;)
[07:49] <elmo> MagicFab: full disclosure, pls
[07:49] <MacSlow> ogra, like?
[07:49] <mneptok> i'll endorse MagicFab heartily. i know he has been active in free software in Quebec for years, and has been advocating Ubuntu almost from the inception.
[07:49] <EtienneG> for what it is worth, i am all behind MagicFab
[07:49] <MacSlow> ogra, just started reading his page more thoroughly
[07:49] <sfllaw> I met MagicFab two years ago where he was supporting Ubuntu!
[07:49] <La_PaRCa> I am a MagicFab fanboy. He has been doing great work getting the ubuntu-co team up and running.
[07:49] <EtienneG> basically, he *is* ubuntu-qc (we need to fix that)
[07:49] <MagicFab> elmo, I started working with Canonical's support office in Mtl 2 weeks ago. My membership was on the CC Agenda for a while
[07:50] <elmo> MagicFab: thx
[07:50] <cr3> I can also vouch for MagicFab's presence in the local communities in Quebec
[07:50] <GazzaK> elmo, I'm really sorry to bug you, but can we (please) do popey and LoudMouthMan soonish, as I'm at work and will be locked in soon, and this place is bad enough without being locked in here.  I'm sorry to be whinging.
[07:50] <EtienneG> and I take the blame for refering him :)
[07:50] <ogra> MacSlow, the conmtent filter he wrote for edubuntu ... i'd like to have it on the CD for feisty
[07:50] <elmo> GazzaK: sorry, didn't see that - we'll do them next if we can
[07:50] <MacSlow> ogra, comment-filter or content-filter?
[07:50] <ogra> but anyway, a loud cheer from my side for Amaranth ....
[07:51] <sfllaw> MagicFab is an excellent all around guy.
[07:51] <EtienneG> ^^
[07:51] <ogra> MacSlow, content ... :)
[07:51] <mneptok> sfllaw*3
[07:51] <EtienneG> very pro, very level-head, the kind of advocate we want
[07:51] <MagicFab> cr3, sfllaw, mneptok, etienne are colleagues, but they have witnessed I am very respectful at Ubuntu parties :)
[07:51] <La_PaRCa> its the ubuntu-ca mafia
[07:51] <sfllaw> Where's jbailey?
[07:51] <cr3> for example, I know that MagicFab was present to all the free-software related events in Montreal: copyright 2005, sqil, linux-expo, many free software conferences and many many installfests
[07:51] <jbailey> sfllaw: I'm here.
[07:51] <mneptok> MagicFab: until the horse tranqulizers kick in
[07:51] <ogra> MacSlow, apt-cache show willowng
[07:51] <cr3> err, I mean all free-software related events I know of
[07:51] <jbailey> sfllaw: But I don't have enough to contribute for his community interaction.
[07:52] <sfllaw> He organized jbailey's talk at FACIL.
[07:52] <jbailey> MagicFab: Oh, you organised that?  Thanks. =)
[07:52] <MagicFab> sfllaw, I produced the video - don't know what's worse :)
[07:52] <elmo> sfllaw: is that a polite way of saying "ghost wrote"? ;-)
[07:52] <sfllaw> jbailey: Dude!
[07:52] <sabdfl> sorry - office matters
[07:52] <EtienneG> and e was advocating Ubuntu at all these place
[07:52] <sabdfl> need to scann scrollback quickly
[07:53] <jbailey> sfllaw: Eh, I was told to show up at a particular place and give a talk on Ubuntu, so I did. =)
[07:53] <MagicFab> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez and scrolling to "Contributions" is a good summary
[07:53] <mneptok> jbailey: show up in my kitchen and give a tolk on Ubuntu as you bake me a pie.
[07:53] <jbailey> Not having to know who arranged it only seems like a positive reflection on the organisation of it. =)
[07:53] <sabdfl> +1 on theCore - python fans unite!
[07:53] <elmo> MagicFab: did you apply previously or am I misremembering?
[07:54] <theCore> sabdfl: thanks! :)
[07:54] <MagicFab> elmo, twice, actually - wasn't considered sustained. np with that
[07:54] <cbx33> sabdfl, with ya there dude ;)
[07:54] <sabdfl> +1 to Amaranth, long track record of contributions
[07:54] <GazzaK> \o/ yay to theCore & Amaranth \o/
[07:54] <elmo> ok, +1 from me for MagicFab
[07:54] <Amaranth> yay
[07:54] <sabdfl> MagicFab: +1 too - welcome!
[07:54] <MacSlow> congrats Amaranth
[07:54] <theCore> thanks everyone for supporting me
[07:55] <EtienneG> cool theCore, looking forward to meet you sometime
[07:55] <somerville32> Woot! :]
[07:55] <La_PaRCa> congrats guys
[07:55] <PriceChild> well done Amaranth, theCore, MagicFab
[07:55] <MagicFab> Great :) tx to all
[07:55] <EtienneG> MagicFab, well done, well deserved
[07:55] <sabdfl> who's up next?
[07:55] <EtienneG> high five !
[07:55] <popey> o/ please
[07:55] <popey> in office alone
[07:56] <popey> getting scared
[07:56] <sabdfl> office xmas party shortly, so want to get to as many as possible, folks please type up your intro's in advance
[07:56] <cbx33> awww
[07:56] <mneptok> lol
[07:56] <elmo> popey: go
[07:56] <sabdfl> popey: go for it
[07:56] <GazzaK> popey and LoudMouthMan ? (my cat is gonna kill me)
[07:56] <mneptok> classic
[07:56] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanPope https://launchpad.net/people/alanpope that's me
[07:56] <popey> i do a lot of support, i created some screencasts - http://quickones.org/ , I help LUGs..
[07:56] <EtienneG> (sorry guys, have to go, duty call and jbailey will spank me if I am late)
[07:56] <sabdfl> popey: how's #ubuntu doing from a support perspective?
[07:56] <theCore> EtienneG: I applied for ubuntu-qc. I am certainly going to help you
[07:56] <jonh_wendell> folks, where is the order?
[07:56] <popey> I do web based support on the tickets
[07:56] <theCore> ah...
[07:57] <popey> generally don't venture into #ubuntu at the moment
[07:57] <popey> find it easier to forumlate answers in support tickets
[07:57] <cr3> theCore: I'll relay your message to him when he comes in :)
[07:57] <theCore> cr3: thanks
[07:57] <popey> clocked up 10 million karma :)
[07:57] <sabdfl> popey: what do you think of the web based tracker, have you spoken at all with flacoste who is leading the work onthat?
[07:57] <cbx33> popey is one of the most dedicated linux helpers around
[07:57] <LoudMouthMan> Im Popey fan club also and feel that UKTeam has consitantly benefited from his input.
[07:57] <cbx33> he's untiring in his efforts
[07:57] <popey> I like it, it's easy to use, I can help from anywhere :)
[07:57] <sabdfl> +1 from me on the basis of a huge contribution in ubuntu support
[07:58] <elmo> +1 too
[07:58] <mako> +1 from me as well
[07:58] <GazzaK>  art.
 I'd love to say a bit about Alan Pope, ( popey ) - He is very very helpful to all ubuntu users, he is very active on irc and has made some great demos on how to do things in ubuntu which are help on his own server ( quickones.org ) he is also very acti
[07:58] <popey> \o/ thanks guys
[07:58] <sabdfl> 241 results!
[07:58] <cbx33> dude you rock
[07:58] <popey> cheque in post
[07:58] <sabdfl> welcome aboard!
[07:58] <GazzaK> oops
[07:58] <elmo> LoudMouthMan: I believe you needed to go next?
[07:58] <GazzaK> he is also very active in launchpad, helping so many people.  In fact I support what he is doing so much I made this little (work safe) image - http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8489/popeysmembergg2.jpg