[06:29] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:59] <jibel> salut oSoMoN
[07:00] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[07:12] <didrocks> good morning
[07:27] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:27] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, bien rentré ?
[08:24] <ackk> hi, where should I file a bug about the focal installer boot hanging?
[08:26] <jibel> ackk, hi where does it hang and how?
[08:27] <ackk> jibel, right at boot: https://i.imgur.com/enucdlR.jpg
[08:27] <ackk> this is with the daily-live current image (20200304)
[08:27] <jibel> ackk, uh, that's bad.
[08:27] <jibel> ackk, file a bug against casper
[08:27] <ackk> jibel, ok, thanks
[08:27] <jibel> we'll reassign if needed
[08:28] <ackk> jibel, this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper ?
[08:28] <jibel> ackk, yes
[08:32] <jibel> ackk, can yo utry with today's build http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20200309/ ?
[08:33] <ackk> jibel, ok, I'll give it a spin, will file if it still fails. I'll have to do it later though since it was happening on this laptop
[08:33] <ackk> jibel, fwiw I have dmcrypt +lvm
[08:34] <jibel> ak, np
[08:34] <jibel> ok*
[08:35] <jibel> ackk, add as much details on your setup as you can to help reproduce the issue
[08:35] <ackk> jibel, sure. I guess I'll use ubuntu-bug from eoan
[09:07] <seb128> gooood morning desktopers
[09:08] <didrocks> hey seb128, bien rentré ?
[09:09] <seb128> lut didrocks, ouais, 10 min de retard au départ du train mais arrivé à l'heure prévue :)
[09:09] <seb128> et toi, passé un bon w.e?
[09:10] <didrocks> seb128: ça va, on fait plus grand chose de spécial, mais c’était pas mal
[09:11] <seb128> tant qu'il y a pas de galère et que c'est reposant c'est déjà ça :-)
[09:15] <didrocks> ça va :)
[09:20] <oSoMoN> didrocks, oui, merci, je suis rentré sans encombres
[09:21] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[09:21] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? bien rentré et passé un bon w.e?
[09:22] <oSoMoN> oui, très bon week-end en famille, j’ai bricolé, jardiné et joué au lego :)
[09:27] <Wimpress> Morning desktopers
[09:27] <Wimpress> How is everyone?
[09:28] <oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
[09:28] <oSoMoN> all good, how are you?
[09:29] <Wimpress> All fine. Internet is a bit flaky today. Other than that, all good.
[09:32] <seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
[09:33] <Wimpress> Not bad. Just getting setup for the week.
[09:33] <Wimpress> You?
[09:34] <seb128> I'm good!
[09:36] <Wimpress> seb128: I f
[09:36] <Wimpress> Ugh
[09:36] <Wimpress> I got ffmpeg working successfully with nvenc.
[09:37] <seb128> wooot
[09:37] <Wimpress> seb128: I need some advice on how we can land this in 20.04.
[09:37] <seb128> dput? :)
[09:37] <Wimpress> ffmpeg itself is an upload to universe, with a tiny change.
[09:37] <Wimpress> But it requires a new package for B-D
[09:38] <Wimpress> Also, only the amd64 build of ffmpeg has the nvenc capability because the nvidia runtime to support it is only available on amd64.
[09:38] <seb128> Wimpress, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze_for_new_packages
[09:38] <seb128> if that's a new package to the archive
[09:38] <Wimpress> Thought so.
[09:38] <seb128> only amd64 is fine
[09:39] <Wimpress> So FFe and a new package request?
[09:39] <seb128> yes, as described on the wiki
[09:39] <seb128> feel free to give me a ppa if you want a NEW review before doing the FFe
[09:41] <Wimpress> https://launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/+archive/ubuntu/ffmpeg
[09:41] <Wimpress> seb128: ^
[09:44] <seb128> Wimpress, k
[09:45] <didrocks> hey Wimpress! Already busy writing tests, but good :)
[09:53] <seb128> Wimpress,  the package looks good to me, you can go ahead with the ffe paperwork
[10:31] <ginggs> Wimpress: aren't the headers in nv-codec-headers already shipped in nvidia-cuda-toolkit?
[10:33] <cpaelzer> hiho, I have to admit I'm only seeing the angry updates on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-remote-desktop/+bug/1802614 because the MIR team is still subscribed. I wanted to ask if someone from the Dekstop Team could do an update there as the last one is long ago
[10:33] <cpaelzer> I see no familiar name other than jbicha so it might be off your teams radar and worth a ping
[10:34] <cpaelzer> seb128: didrocks: ^^
[10:35] <seb128> cpaelzer, k
[10:43] <Wimpress> ginggs: I'll double check nvidia-cuda-toolkit.
[10:49] <ginggs> Wimpress: i didn't find it now, but it seems at least cuviddec.h was there in xenial https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/nvidia-cuda-dev/filelist
[10:50] <ginggs> i'll try to find out where it went
[10:51] <Wimpress> ginggs: Yeah, I just checked. The ffmpeg codec header to enable nvenc in ffmpeg are only available via nv-codec-headers.
[10:52] <Wimpress> ffmpeg 3.x had the headers included in ffmpeg source tree. But they were removed during 4.x
[10:53] <Wimpress> I've been maintaining the ffmpeg snap, with acceleration enabled, for a good while now. I'm seeking to restore parity in the archive.
[10:55] <ginggs> i see dynlink_cuviddec.h in https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/nvidia-cuda-dev/filelist
[10:57] <Wimpress> These are the header required.
[10:57] <Wimpress> https://github.com/FFmpeg/nv-codec-headers/tree/master/include/ffnvcodec
[10:59] <seb128> cpaelzer, k, commented now
[11:29] <cpaelzer> thank you
[12:33] <seb128> desktopers, GNOME 3.36.0 tarballs are being rolled, if someone wants to help with some uploads that would be welcome
[12:34] <seb128> I've updated https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 with cards about updates so it's easy to sync up on the work
[12:34] <seb128> but make sure to check on Debian pts/salsa (or ask here) before starting on one since some Debian people are also doing updates and they don't use our trello
[12:51] <oSoMoN> seb128, ack, I'll do my share
[12:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks!
[13:54] <tjaalton> seb128: new xorgproto/libx11 should fix the error messages caused by new keysyms
[13:55] <seb128> tjaalton, thanks!
[15:17] <ginggs> Wimpress: fyi https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk/ <- it seems Nvidia split it out of the CUDA SDK at some point
[15:19] <Wimpress> ginggs: Yep, which is why I've packaged nv-codec-headers.
[17:27] <hellsworth> could someone please go click some links for me? I would like to restart these autopkgtests: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/sSj5fvCjWD/
[17:28] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, doing
[17:28] <hellsworth> thanks so much!
[17:29] <oSoMoN> done
[17:37] <hellsworth> perfect and thanks!
[20:03] <rick6860> can someone help me with wine install?
[20:04] <sarnold> rick6860: you'll probably have more success in #ubuntu, this channel is for coordinating work on the next release
[20:04] <rick6860> I tried to join, but can't get in. I will try again.


 The development of UnityX is moving fast and we aim to release 10.0 (stable release) well before the end of this year. UnityX 10.0-rc2 has now been released 🎉We are accepting merge requests at https://gitlab.com/ubuntu-unity/unity-x/unityx.Release notes: https://unityx.org/post/unityx-10.0-rc2 : https://matterbridge.thomas-ward.net/e17faa43/file_59.jpg
 https://matterbridge.thomas-ward.net/a0f2ec95/file_60.jpg
 https://matterbridge.thomas-ward.net/b2725ed9/file_61.jpg


[12:30] <onkarshinde> Where can I suggest new artwork?
[12:33] <onkarshinde> anybody listening?
[12:33] <derek[] > yes
[12:33] <derek[] > but I don't know where
[12:34] <onkarshinde> derek[] : Well my suggestion is that Ubuntu should have CD covers artwork as in case of OpenOffice.org
[12:35] <derek[] > you don't like the current CD cover design?
[12:35] <onkarshinde> where is it?
[12:35] <onkarshinde> derek[] : Just wait. I will show you what exactly I mean
[12:37] <onkarshinde> derek[] : I am talking about something like this http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/cdart/
[12:39] <derek[] > Ubuntu's CD have that kind of artwork
[12:39] <derek[] > orange-yellow theme
[12:39] <derek[] > btw, try this for posting your suggestions: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[12:39] <onkarshinde> derek[] : Do you know where?
[12:40] <derek[] > onkarshinde, I have the CDs here at my place.
[12:40] <derek[] > (This might interest you too: http://art.ubuntu.com/ )
[12:43] <onkarshinde> derek[] : Are you talking about CDs provided by shipit?
[12:43] <derek[] > Yes
[12:43] <derek[] > what are you talking about?
[12:44] <onkarshinde> I was saying that if someone wants to distribute Ubuntu CDs then it will be good if we have some standar set of CD stickers/covers and cardbord CD covers
[12:45] <derek[] > I see
[12:51] <derek[] > onkarshinde, http://www.linuxexpres.cz/index.php?show=001051023
[12:51] <derek[] > onkarshinde, there you can download the SVG
[12:51] <derek[] > but the logo on that artwork violates the standard
[12:52] <derek[] > it should be rotated in a certain angle
[12:52] <derek[] > relative to the title
[12:52] <onkarshinde> derek[] : This is what I was talking about. It will be better if there was some standard official thing.
[12:58] <derek[] > This is the kind I got: http://blog.henne.cc/archives/2005/06/17/
[12:58] <derek[] > http://blog.henne.cc/wp-content/images/ubuntu_cds.jpg
[12:59] <derek[] > onkarshinde, you can talk to someone else here.. may be they know an the official CD artwork is available
[12:59] <derek[] > *if an
[01:48] <derek[] > hallo mpathy
[01:49] <mpathy> Hi :)
[01:49] <derek[] > :)
[01:50] <mpathy> Gehts hier immer noch so chaotisch zu wie am Anfang *g*
[01:50] <derek[] > zu wie am Anfang = ?
[01:52] <mpathy> Naja, chaotische Wikipages, keine regelmigen Treffen, nix organisiert, in den Mailinglisten werden die eigenen Gedankenblitze gepostet aber ansonsten aneinander vorbei geredet - deshalb hab ich mich zurckgezogen.. ;) ..wie wrs mit einem ubuntu-artwork-de ?? ;)
[01:53] <derek[] > I don't know German so well :)
[01:53] <mpathy> oh sorry!
[01:57] <derek[] > so what did you say?
[02:03] <mpathy> I mean, chaotic wiki pages, no regular IRC meetings, mailing posts with many "here is my NEW mockup" but not much teamwork.. thats why I'm only passively right now (and I thought you were german, and I meant why not create a wikipage in our german think-tank ;) ubuntuusers.de)
[02:04] <mpathy> so forget the last part.. but the first part is my opinion
[02:33] <derek[] > I see
[03:13] <derek_> hi mgalvin
[03:13] <mgalvin> hi derek_


[18:16] <DelphiWorld> salam
[18:16] <DelphiWorld> ounis: SALAM
[18:43] <ounis> hey DelphiWorld
[18:43] <ounis> sorry for the delay
[18:55] <DelphiWorld> ounis: :)
[18:55] <DelphiWorld> ounis: sadly alaqsavoice is not broadcasting;(
[18:56] <ounis> :( really sad
[18:56] <ounis> hope they are ok :'(
[18:57] <ounis> may allah be merciful upon all muslims in gaza palestine and all muslim countries
[20:58] <DelphiWorld> you here ounis ?
[20:58] <DelphiWorld> AminosAmigos !
[20:59] <AminosAmigos> hello
[20:59] <AminosAmigos> are you following the events ?
[21:14] <samo_> ahliiin


[03:31] <pitti> Good morning
[03:32] <pitti> doko_: verbose systemd build> can do
[03:46] <pitti> infinity: err, how is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/2.5.2-0ubuntu5/+build/4964722 a "failed to build"?
[03:46] <pitti> infinity: the build log got debs and ends with "built successfully" !?
[03:47] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, and then my lp-buildd hack failed it hard due to segvs in the ringbuffer.
[03:47] <infinity> pitti: I admit that I didn't make that overly verbose.
[03:47] <pitti> ah
[03:47] <infinity> pitti: But it's a temp hack until we get some more stable buildds going.
[03:48] <pitti> what does that grep for?
[03:48]  * pitti has some trouble actually finding a segfault in the log
[03:48] <infinity> pitti: It's right at the end.
[03:48] <infinity> conftest[6966]: unhandled level 2 translation fault (11) at 0x00000008, esr 0x92000006
[03:49] <infinity> conftest[10403]: unhandled level 2 translation fault (11) at 0x00000008, esr 0x92000006
[03:49] <infinity> pitti: Nothing you can do about it, don't worry.  We're working on it.
[03:49] <pitti> ah, I thought something during the tests or so crashed, but apparently not
[03:49] <pitti> infinity: ack, thanks
[03:50] <infinity> Those conftests are collateral damage from the segv checker not being able to be smart.
[03:50] <infinity> Turns out that's actually a subtle glibc bug, and those segv on all arches. :P
[03:50] <infinity> I'm testing an upload for that right now.
[05:04] <wgrant> infinity: Well, the test doesn't exactly segv on all arches... it just accidentally fails to build on most/all of the other archs :)
[05:05] <infinity> wgrant: Potayto, puhchicken.
[05:24] <pitti> infinity, ogra_: https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/msm/+/57195292 sounds promising for the "uevents for vsync" madness?
[05:25] <infinity> pitti: Yeahp, shame it's for the wrong driver.
[05:25] <infinity> (But hopefully this is a trend)
[05:46] <infinity> pitti: Does umockdev-testbed/script_replay_socket_stream rely on a specific kernel feature that might not be enabled on my arm64 buildds?
[05:47] <pitti> infinity: well, I surely do hope that we have unix sockets there
[05:47] <pitti> otherwise, nothing I can think of
[06:17] <pitti> infinity: do we have a porter box for arm64 to investigate this?
[06:23] <pitti> doko_: done now; OOI, why do you need this? (it built fine on arm64)
[06:23] <pitti> doko_: (done in git, not uploaded yet)
[06:28] <infinity> pitti: No, we don't officially have any of the hardware we have. :P
[06:52] <dholbach> good morning
[07:28] <Noskcaj> Are we still aiming to make 14.04 only ship python3?
[07:33] <cjwatson> Noskcaj: on images, yes if possible, in the archive, that's a pipe dream and isn't going to happen
[07:34] <cjwatson> not that it's a bad idea to port things, just might as well have realistic expectations
[07:34] <Noskcaj> cjwatson, I mean on the images. Is the spreadsheet to-do list still current?
[07:34] <cjwatson> I doubt anyone's looked at the spreadsheet for some time
[07:35] <cjwatson> wow, there's still a lot on the images :-/
[07:35] <cjwatson> I guess the bulk of that is U1 (<- twisted)
[07:35] <Noskcaj> I'll see if i can port testdrive one the gtk3 transition for it is finished. Although i really need one of the old devs to help with that
[07:36] <Noskcaj> kirkland, speaking of which, is there any chance you'll ever have the time to help with gtk3 and python3?
[07:41] <ogra_> pitti, i added a comment with the link to bug 1234743 ... thanks
[07:49] <xnox> slangasek: yeah, I believe it's the bug report from the same person who was contacting me in private. Will investigate.
[07:53] <ogra_> WHEEE !
[07:53] <ogra_> http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/28068/
[07:53]  * ogra_ dances
[07:57] <tvoss> ogra_, ;)
[07:58] <ogra_> xnox, looks like we can drop the uevent filtering again if the above works
[08:00] <xnox> ogra_: wow =)
[08:00] <xnox> that's nice!
[08:02] <xnox> ogra_: is that how the rest of platforms work?
[08:04] <ogra_> xnox, dunno, and i'm not sure yet it will help us ... its not for a maguro kernel and i dont know if our PVR driver will get along with that change
[08:05] <ogra_> only trying it out will revel that ... i'll do that later today
[08:05] <infinity> That's not the only driver that's seen that change, so there's some comfort in that.
[08:11] <Laney> @pilot in
[08:24] <pitti> ogra_: oh, that looks promising!
[08:27] <Riddell> how do I do a three way conditional in make?  I want to set something different for armhf in this http://paste.ubuntu.com/6217149/
[08:28] <cjwatson> else ifeq
[08:29] <cjwatson> Riddell: though watch out for backwards conditional syntax there as the first branch is currently "all architectures other than powerpc"
[08:30] <cjwatson> and should really be written as $(filter powerpc,$(DEB_HOST_ARCH)) rather than $(filter $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),powerpc), otherwise it's a trap for anyone trying to extend that
[08:30] <cjwatson> actually maybe it's OK either way
[08:38] <Riddell> cjwatson: why do we use that backwards syntax with filter, why not just ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),amd64) ?
[08:39] <pitti> Riddell: I guess the idea is if you want to extend matching to other architectures
[08:39] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. "powerpc ppc64" or similar
[08:40] <henrix> @pilot in
[08:41] <cjwatson> Riddell: what he said
[08:41] <cjwatson> Riddell: but a plain ifeq is fine too if you don't expect that *shrug*.  However it's not especially unlikely that we'll have a ppc64el port at some point soonish
[08:44] <ev> chrisccoulson: hi. Are you familiar with apparmor and lxc? We're having some trouble talking to dbus when lxc confined: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6217202/
[09:21] <xnox> bdmurray: can I or you somehow search all ubiquity bugs and check if "GET/HEAD requests should not include body." is in the syslog ?
[09:42] <xnox> bdmurray: i think i am managing with ubuntu-bugpatterns. Wrote my first pattern and the search is running.
[10:19] <ev> pitti: thanks for clarifying the apport-retrace stuff!
[10:19] <pitti> ev: yw :)
[11:06] <doko> pitti, postgres ping?
[11:11] <pitti> doko: waiting for the upstream release announcement (folks are in the US)
[11:33] <jtaylor> can one get a list of package versions installed during adt tests?
[11:33] <jtaylor> I wondering about the scipy failure, the only change which falls in this 3 hour timeframe is glibc update
[11:34] <jtaylor> but I can't imagine how that could cause this type of failure
[11:35] <jtaylor> but I have no idea if it ran with ubuntu2 or ubuntu3
[11:49] <infinity> jtaylor: Seems more likely that it's a sketchy non-deterministic test, rather than glibc breaking it.
[11:51] <jtaylor> might be, but it worked reliably for a long time
[11:52] <infinity> jtaylor: It ran against the latest glibc.
[11:52] <infinity> jtaylor: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-python-scipy/ARCH=i386,label=adt/50/console
[11:53] <infinity> jtaylor: Click "full log" at the top of the log.
[11:53] <infinity> jtaylor: Then you can see it doing some upgrading and installing bits.
[11:53] <jtaylor> thx
[11:53] <infinity> pitti: Erm, the adt systems are qemu right, not xen?
[11:53] <pitti> infinity: yes
[11:54] <infinity> pitti: Then why do the i386 VMs have libc6-xen installed?
[12:00] <Laney> @pilot out
[12:26] <pitti> infinity: (re from dinner) err -- they certainly aren't supposed to; checking
[12:27] <ogra_> pitti, the omapbf patch is a no go ... seems something actually makes use of the uevents on the other side
[12:27] <ogra_> *omapfb
[12:27] <ogra_> *sniff*
[12:27] <pitti> infinity: ah, it's in the cloud images already: http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/saucy/current/saucy-server-cloudimg-i386.manifest
[12:28] <infinity> pitti: Kay.  Theoretically shouldn't do any harm (or, indeed, load at all) on a non-xen system, but it looked odd.
[12:28] <pitti> infinity: that seems a bit questionable indeed; but we can certainly purge that from the auto-package-testing VMs as we know they won't run on xen
[12:28] <pitti> infinity: is that causing some test failure troubles?
[12:28] <infinity> pitti: It shouldn't be.  If it is, it's my bug. :P
[12:29] <pitti> infinity: heh, ok
[12:29] <infinity> pitti: It was more just something I noticed in passing, looking at an i386 log.
[12:41] <Riddell> pitti: are you still incharge of langpacks?
[12:41] <pitti> Riddell: yes
[12:42] <Riddell> pitti: could it be possible to include kubuntu-patched-l10n in language-pack-xx ?
[12:43] <mvo> hi, I keep getting firefox crashes on my saucy box "g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting." - is this a known saucy issue? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6217833/ - I have it in gdb
[12:43] <Riddell> pitti: we use upstream translations for almost everything but there is a couple of patches with i18n which get extracted into kubuntu-patched-l10n only nothing then installs the kubuntu-patched-l10n .po file
[12:43] <xnox> mvo: do you have matching latest kernel & apparmor  in saucy?
[12:44] <xnox> mvo: if not fully dist-upgrade and reboot.
[12:44] <pitti> Riddell: you mean that package installs its own translation domain?
[12:44] <pitti> Riddell: and we should install that into the langpacks? or you need this package as a dependency? (which would be harder, and I think you should just seed it)
[12:44] <mvo> xnox: I think so, I upgraded yesterday or so and restarted since
[12:45]  * mvo double checks
[12:45] <Riddell> pitti: it includes kubuntu-patched-l10n.pot in the source and that gets put into launchpad where nothing else happens with it
[12:45] <pitti> Riddell: ah
[12:46] <pitti> Riddell: yeah, no problem
[12:46] <zyga> slangasek: hey
[12:46] <zyga> slangasek: looking at mountall 2.52 now
[12:46] <pitti> WARNING: unknown translation domain: kubuntu-patched-l10n
[12:46] <pitti> Riddell: ^ ack
[12:47] <pitti> Riddell: added to overrides and rolled out
[12:47] <Riddell> pitti: that warning seems scary but it means everything is ok?
[12:47] <pitti> Riddell: as it happens I'm waiting for LP to give me a full new export, for building the saucy final langpacks; should happen this evening or tomorrow morning
[12:48] <pitti> Riddell: it meant that the po files are in the tarball, just that langpack-o-matic previously didn't know what to do with it
[12:48] <pitti> as it isn't appearing in any binary package
[12:49] <zyga> slangasek: do I need debhelper 9.20120410 or can I keep using the old one from precise?
[12:53] <zyga> slangasek: ok, apparently standards version and debhelper weren't that relevant, rebooting to check
[12:54] <zyga> slangasek: success on first try, this looks promising
[13:03] <henrix> @pilot out
[13:13] <apw> tvoss, hey, would you be a good person to ask about location-service and platform-api.  if i am reading this right, they seem to have developed a mutual build dependancy preventing them building on powerpc
[13:13] <cjwatson> I wouldn't expect that stack to build on powerpc
[13:13] <tvoss> apw, powerpc?
[13:14] <ogra_> aww, bad, so no map apps on powerpc phones then
[13:14] <cjwatson> don't they end up at qtdeclarative sooner or later?
[13:14] <cjwatson> mir isn't built on powerpc, various other things in that stack probably aren't either
[13:14] <cjwatson> apw: I'd pick something else ;-)
[13:14] <tvoss> cjwatson, that's my understanding, too
[13:15] <apw> tvoss, they seem to have Architecture: any in 'em but hey
[13:15] <cjwatson> tvoss: circular build dependencies are bad news in general, though; they're a pain when bootstrapping new ports
[13:15] <apw> cjwatson, will do
[13:15] <cjwatson> apw: A bunch of things are Architecture: any when they aren't intrinsically restricted themselves
[13:15] <tvoss> cjwatson, I can break that package up post freeze
[13:15] <cjwatson> This is generally fine
[13:15] <tvoss> apw, would that be fine for you?
[13:15] <cjwatson> tvoss: (The new port we're bootstrapping right now, I confidently predict you will care about it rather soon)
[13:16] <apw> tvoss, i will poke something else, it sounds like you have it on your radar
[13:16] <tvoss> cjwatson, as long as it is after this week, I'm happy to care about it :)
[13:18] <cjwatson> apw: missing powerpc builds are only a problem if the same package used to build so it's blocking proposed-migration
[13:18] <mdeslaur> ogra_: oh darn, and here I was building my own powerpc phone! I managed to get it down to 8 kg
[13:18] <apw> cjwatson, ack
[13:40] <cjwatson> ev: would you mind fixing https://launchpadlibrarian.net/153264198/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-arm64.libtimezonemap_<IP_ADDRESS>_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?  I don't have commit access to the branch ... basically the problem here is a general one exposed by the particular setup of our arm64 builders at the moment; you can see the real problem if you search for "segmentation fault" in the log
[13:40] <cjwatson> it looks like the test either needs to tolerate not being able to open that file, or it needs to take an argument to let it read that file from the build tree during tests, possibly both
[13:41] <ev> we have tests?!
[13:41]  * ev looks
[13:42] <cjwatson> well, sort of a test
[13:47] <ev> cjwatson: still making sense of the code, but I'll take care of it
[13:48] <cjwatson> ta
[14:03] <ev> cjwatson: how's that http://paste.ubuntu.com/6218121/
[14:10] <cjwatson> ev: LGTM aside from indentation, thanks
[14:15] <ev> oh man
[14:15] <bdmurray> xnox: for future reference I have a local collection of ubiquity bug attachments and descriptions for quick searching
[14:15] <ev> WHO USES TABS ANYMORE
[14:16]  * apw for one
[14:16] <xnox> ev: https://plus.google.com/109160032876474505377/posts/2K7iAEALrSH
[14:16] <ev> HAHAHAHA
[14:16] <xnox> bdmurray: ah, I see. I think my bugpatter sucked, can you still do a search for that string?
[14:17] <bdmurray> xnox: yes, and they are already consolidated
[14:17] <xnox> bdmurray: ah, cool. thanks a lot.
[14:26] <ogra_> mdeslaur, hey, thats still lighter than my sparc phone ;)
[14:31] <jdstrand> ev: looking at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6217202/-- lightdm is running in the container?
[14:32] <ev> jdstrand: I'm not sure, but stgraber followed up with Mirv: https://pastebin.canonical.com/98867/
[14:32] <jdstrand> ok
[14:32] <jdstrand> thanks
[14:35] <jdstrand> tyhicks: curious: https://pastebin.canonical.com/98867/. it seems odd to me that lxc would all of a sudden start seeing this-- is that because AF_UNIX wasn't mediated it was just being passed though with no dbus mediation, but now that it is, dbus is getting mediated? that seems odd to me
[14:36] <jdstrand> tyhicks: I don't think it requires a lot of time to investigate since lxc was updated-- I just find it weird since we have had dbus mediation since august but lxc only saw it after the recent kernel/dbus uploads
[14:36] <jdstrand> tyhicks: s/only saw/seemingly only saw/
[14:38] <tvoss> ogra_, remind me, who was looking into the upstart memory issues?
[14:39] <ogra_> tvoss, several people
[14:39] <ogra_> (in a mtg, more details later)
[14:40] <tvoss> ogra_, ack
[14:56] <ogra_> tvoss, so cking was originally looking at the kernel side of this bug, i did too today (to find we cant fix it there) ... jodh fixes the "§upstart doesnt free memory on dbus disconnect", xnox did already add a filter for the uevent to upstart-udev-bridge to avoid upstart picking up all the uevents and he is now looking into a netlink filter to do the same for udevd (since that still consumes 5-10% CPU while the screen is on thanlks to t
[14:56] <ogra_> he event spam)
[14:57] <ogra_> tvoss, so with xnox finishing that the bug should be worked around enough to be fine for release (we should re-visit the kernel part in T)
[14:58] <cking> that sounds most fine
[14:58] <xnox> yeap. Not sure if i will have the udev fix today or not.
[14:58] <ogra_> cking, well, i would like to get rid of the event rather sooner than later or hide it on a lower level at least
[14:59] <cking> indeed
[14:59] <ogra_> filtering on all levels wont stop the traffic
[14:59] <ogra_> and i strongly assume thats what kills our performance on maguro
[15:06] <doko> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mir/+bug/1203207 why committed and not fixed? it's promoted
[15:06] <mterry> doko, oh right, it was pre-promoted
[15:07] <mterry> doko, changed
[15:14] <tvoss> ogra_, okay, trying to understand this ... why do we accumulate memory somewhere in userspace?
[15:15] <ogra_> tvoss, bug 1234743 causes 60 uevents per second (one for each vsync) ... upstart-udev-bridge picks it up
[15:15] <ogra_> tvoss, due to bug 1235649 each of the uevents gets accumulated in ram by the session upstart
[15:16] <ogra_> tvoss, additionally udevd gets some load due to processing all these udevents
[15:16] <ogra_> *uevents
[15:17] <tvoss> ogra_, in my perfect little world, fixing 1235649 would help
[15:17] <tvoss> ogra_, modulo udevd being quite busy
[15:18] <ogra_> tvoss, the fix for 1235649 means that upstart just frees the ram on disconnect ... there is no proper way to prevent it from collecting valid uevents
[15:18] <ogra_> tvoss, we added an improper filtering mechanism for this, but the real fix would be to fix 1234743
[15:18] <tvoss> ogra_, sure, agreed
[15:18] <ogra_> tvoss, we only work on hiding the fallout
[15:19] <ogra_> the traffic is still happening and will eat performance
[16:05] <zyga> stgraber: ping
[16:05] <zyga> stgraber: is it safe to use _lxc from ubuntu-precise with a updated version of python-lxc from trunk?
[16:06] <zyga> slangasek: hey, it works, did a dozen reboots, no hangs anymore
[16:06] <slangasek> zyga: spiff
[16:07] <zyga> slangasek: will this come to ubuntu precise?
[16:08] <stgraber> zyga: we build and usually support current LXC on all supported releases starting with precise, so yes, running current LXC on precise should be fine
[16:08] <zyga> stgraber: I mean -- just the pure python bits while the _lxc module comes from 12.04 stock (0.8 IIRC)
[16:09] <slangasek> zyga: dunno, I would need to age it a bit to watch for further regressions and by then it might be too late to be worth it
[16:09] <stgraber> zyga: stock precise doesn't have python3-lxc
[16:09] <stgraber> zyga: and doesn't have the liblxc0 library you need for that either
[16:10] <tyhicks> jdstrand: No, the dbus message sending/receiving mediation point is completely separate from the AF_UNIX connect() mediation point
[16:10] <zyga> stgraber: it has here?
[16:11] <stgraber> zyga: that's because you're pulling it from the precise-backports ;)
[16:11] <tyhicks> jdstrand: adding in the AF_UNIX connect() mediation point wouldn't suddenly cause dbus message send/receive denials
[16:11] <zyga> ah, it's from backports
[16:11] <zyga> :)
[16:13] <zyga> slangasek: hmm, so precise is going to stay broken?
[16:13] <zyga> slangasek: don't our customers hit that or anything? I mean the next LTS is 6 months away
[16:13] <slangasek> zyga: clearly they don't, since you're the first person to report this issue
[16:14] <zyga> slangasek: wow, nobody uses nfs nowadays :)
[16:14] <zyga> slangasek: is the bug specific to nfs btw?
[16:17] <slangasek> zyga: it probably affects all network filesystem types
[16:17] <zyga> slangasek: ceph?
[16:17] <slangasek> if mounted at boot time via /etc/fstab, I don't see why it wouldn't be affected
[16:18] <slangasek> but it's not as simple as "if you have network filesystems, you hit this bug"
[16:18] <slangasek> I have network filesystems mounted at boot, since before precise, and never hit this bug
[16:18] <zyga> slangasek: ah, so it was caused by that nested mount point?
[16:18] <zyga> stgraber: lxc-create hangs on flock -x 200, any idea why that may happen?
[16:18] <zyga> stgraber: works on my desktop, hangs on my server (both 12.04)
[16:19] <slangasek> zyga: honestly, there were so many things that were just slightly wrong that I'm not going to try to untangle that right now and tell you what the root cause was
[16:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: reviewing your grub branch for bug 1236625
[16:19] <slangasek> cjwatson: what'd I do wrong? :)
[16:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: I'm not convinced that --target=efi_hints always outputs a single drive name suitable for use in $root
[16:19] <slangasek> right, I didn't know if it did either
[16:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: in fact it seems to explicitly output delimiter-separated names
[16:19] <zyga> slangasek: fair enough :)
[16:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: cut -f1 ?
[16:20] <cjwatson> possibly but I wonder if there's a better way
[16:20] <zyga> slangasek: but IIRC after dropping all exotic cases it was still hanging with just a bunch of mount points
[16:20] <cjwatson> just reading through that code closely now
[16:21] <slangasek> zyga: well, one of the issues we did find in your case was "names resolvable before the network is up"
[16:21] <zyga> slangasek: ah, right
[16:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: you know, I'd almost be more comfortable using the search.fs_uuid path anyway
[16:23] <cjwatson> (if it works)
[16:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: the hints mean that it shouldn't be inefficient - it'll try the hinted locations first
[16:24] <slangasek> cjwatson: yeah, it will work
[16:24] <cjwatson> slangasek: you could even reduce a lot of the complex duplicated code, then
[16:25] <slangasek> could you?
[16:25] <cjwatson> Could the test on line 641 just become "if no abstraction || (efi && uefi_secure_boot && -e efi_signed)"?
[16:25] <slangasek> let me check
[16:26] <slangasek> yeah, seems plausible; want me to test that here?
[16:27] <cjwatson> yes please :)
[16:27] <cjwatson> that avoids having to copy the horrible regex and stuff
[16:27]  * slangasek nods
[16:29] <slangasek> cjwatson: well, efi_signed is only set at line 837
[16:30] <cjwatson> yeah, you'll need to hoist that up, but that'e asy
[16:30] <cjwatson> *that's easy
[16:30] <cjwatson> $source_dir and $efi_suffix are already defined
[16:31] <cjwatson> by the if block ending line 512 at the latest
[16:34] <slangasek> cjwatson: yeah, it found its brain on reboot.  Want me to update the patch?
[16:34] <cjwatson> please, then I'll be happy to merge
[16:34] <cjwatson> sorry for the delay, the copied code entirely melted my brain before I realised it was copied :)
[16:35] <slangasek> ah :-)
[16:36] <zyga> brb
[16:45] <slangasek> cjwatson: branch updated
[16:57] <infinity> pitti: Can you upload your fixed umockdev?
[17:00] <bdmurray> cjwatson: is the v-done tag in bug 1234705 for every release?
[17:01] <cjwatson> bdmurray: Yes
[17:03] <cjwatson> slangasek: You meant to include MokManager bits in that latest version?
[17:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: hnngh no, sorry
[17:04] <cjwatson> (should I anyway?  but if so it should be a separate patch)
[17:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: there's a separate mp for that open
[17:05] <cjwatson> whoops, better look at that too then :)
[17:05] <cjwatson> I think it will be just after final freeze though :(
[17:06] <slangasek> cjwatson: cruft removed, repushed
[17:06] <cjwatson> (but I'll go for an exception, I think it's reasonable)
[17:08] <cjwatson> slangasek: any chance you could quickly refactor https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu/saucy/grub2/mokmanager-support/+merge/187148 to make the mokmanager changes be a separate ubuntu_* patch on top?  I might coalesce when I merge into Debian, but I find that having changes to the Debian patches not be in separate patches is a recipe for me getting confused
[17:11] <slangasek> cjwatson: looking
[17:16] <cjwatson> slangasek: ok, got to EOD now as I'm already late, but I can merge this later tonight
[17:16] <cjwatson> slangasek: (already merged your first branch)
[17:17] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks - and mokmanager branch re-pushed now
[17:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: thanks
[17:25] <cjwatson> slangasek: ok, you're in luck, uploaded, but somebody else will have to tend grub2-signed
[17:25] <cjwatson> uploading anyway
[17:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: ack, thanks :)
[18:01] <mdeslaur> ev: might want to check out 1238139 to make sure
[18:05] <hallyn> this is odd - i'm on a precise system, doing 'apt-get build-dep qemu-kvm'.  it says it can't find source package.  apt-cache show qemu-kvm indeed doesn't show the source pkg name (which is qemu-kvm)
[18:05] <sarnold> hallyn: deb-src lines in your sources.list ?
[18:06] <hallyn> yup
[18:07] <hallyn> oh well, using dpkg-checkbuilddeps by hand...  i seem to have messed something up earlier
[18:08] <ev> mdeslaur: that code hasn't changed in literally years. I'd be quite surprised if this were true. I'll endeavour to look at it tomorrow
[18:08]  * ev home
[18:08] <mdeslaur> ev: yeah, I have the same feeling
[18:15] <dobey> hallyn: "apt-cache show" doesn't show the "Source:" entry for packages where source name == binary name
[18:16] <sarnold> I wish it did, that'd make grep ^Source a lot more useful..
[18:18] <hallyn> dobey: interesting.  like sarnold i wish it did :)
[18:18] <hallyn> thx
[18:23] <stgraber> hallyn: just do apt-cache showsrc <binary package name>
[18:23] <stgraber> and grep ^Package on that one
[18:25] <dobey> yeah
[18:38] <slangasek> bdmurray: do you have a reproducer for bug #1024590?
[18:38] <bdmurray> slangasek: unfortunately, no
[18:42] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok.  looking at the code, I'm not sure why this is valid in the first place... this is a subclass of Gtk.Treeview, which http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtktreeview.html says is a subclass of Container, and http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkadjustment.html says gtk.Adjustment applies to various things but not to GtkContainer.
[18:54] <mino> hi :) how does dhclient get called? Where is the script that parses the network config? I have a problem that dhclient is not listening on a second dhcp interface if i use vlans
[19:25] <ekarlso> is there a way to create a "bootstrapped" / initial debian folder inside a source folder ?
[19:29] <lifeless> ekarlso: make-dpkg or something like that exists, I forget the name
[19:53] <lenios> ekarlso, dh-make ?
[20:31] <bdmurray> pitti: Do you have any opinion on the SRU of bug 1215911?
[21:34] <ricardobarbosams> hi
[21:34] <ricardobarbosams> i try deploy router proxy-arp
[21:34] <ricardobarbosams> but not working
[21:34] <ricardobarbosams> i set /proc/sys/net/ipv4/all/proxy_arp
[21:35] <ricardobarbosams> exists any module for kernel for working?
[21:35] <ricardobarbosams> my version ubuntu 13.04
[21:39] <sarnold> ricardobarbosams: does "sysctl -a | grep proxy_arp" show you anything interesting or unexpected?
[21:40] <ricardobarbosams> root@ubuntuDELL:~# sysctl -p | grep proxy_arp
[21:40] <ricardobarbosams> net.ipv4.conf.eth0.proxy_arp = 1
[21:40] <ricardobarbosams> net.ipv4.conf.eth1.proxy_arp = 1
[21:40] <ricardobarbosams> root@ubuntuDELL:~#
[21:41] <ricardobarbosams> in tcpdump displaying the request arp, but not response
[21:41] <ricardobarbosams> 17:41:15.262145 ARP, Request who-has <IP_ADDRESS> tell <IP_ADDRESS>, length 46
[21:41] <ricardobarbosams> 17:41:16.262597 ARP, Request who-has <IP_ADDRESS> tell <IP_ADDRESS>, length 46
[21:50] <CyclicFlux> Good day all. I have a bit of a prob, and had a question or two.
[21:50] <CyclicFlux> While upgrading from 12.04, to 12.10, my electricity went out causing my system to lose power. Recovery appears to work
[21:51] <CyclicFlux> could I do a chroot, and then continue the upgrade process?? Or is it best to do it with a Ubuntu 12.10 alternative install Disk.
[22:11] <slangasek> CyclicFlux: define "recovery"?  If the system boots, you may as well try 'dpkg --configure -a && apt-get -f install && apt-get dist-upgrade'.  Worst case is that you lose the time it takes trying to run, and have to resort to a reinstall; best case is that it completes successfully


[05:30] <doko> LocutusOfBorg: what an upload to trigger som hunderd unnecessary autopkg tests ... http://launchpadlibrarian.net/348100722/python-numpy_1%3A1.13.3-1ubuntu1_1%3A1.13.3-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
[08:31] <FourDollars> Hi, does anyone know how to make http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial-proposed/main/installer-amd64/current/images/cdrom/debian-cd_info.tar.gz manually?
[08:59] <cjwatson> FourDollars: It's one of the many outputs of building the debian-installer source package (in the correct context, i.e. with the right things in /etc/apt/sources.list)
[09:00] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Is there any guide for building the debian-installer source package?
[09:02] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I am verifying some grub patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1734278 so I need to make grubx64.efi for the USB stick.
[09:02] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I found the grubx64.efi in grub2_2.02~beta2-36ubuntu3.14_amd64.tar.gz doesn't boot into the GRUB menu.
[09:03] <FourDollars> cjwatson: It just showed grub prompt.
[09:05] <cjwatson> FourDollars: It's a source package - you build it ...
[09:05] <cjwatson> E.g. sbuild
[09:07] <FourDollars> cjwatson: OK. Got it. Let me try to build debian-installer. Thx.
[09:09] <cjwatson> (Though it's probably better to unpack it, make sure you're in a chroot with sources.list matching what you want to end up in the installer images, satisfy build-deps, and then use the make targets in build/ directly - if you just run 'make' there you'll get a list of possible targets)
[09:09] <cjwatson> (otherwise you end up building half the world that you don't care about)
[09:10] <FourDollars> OK
[09:11] <FourDollars> Failed to obtain signed grub image, despite $SIGNED_IMAGE being set.
[09:11] <FourDollars> config/x86.cfg:40: recipe for target 'x86_grub_efi' failed
[09:12] <cjwatson> I don't remember the details - you'll need todig
[09:12] <cjwatson> *to dig
[09:13] <FourDollars> OK
[09:59] <Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: Speaking of, did you see my link the other day?  https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/8538825/+listing-archive-extra
[10:01] <LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, nope
[10:01] <LocutusOfBorg> looking now
[10:01] <LocutusOfBorg> do you want an upload?
[10:02] <Unit193> If it looks right, sure do!
[10:04] <LocutusOfBorg> .
[10:05] <Unit193> Danke.
[10:07]  * LocutusOfBorg renews his whyyounocoredev?
[10:09] <Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: I need to file the MOTU application, have to find a meeting that works timewise.
[10:10] <LocutusOfBorg> oh you still no motu?
[10:11] <Unit193> Right, silly meetings. :/
[10:12] <Unit193> They're all scheduled pretty early.
[10:21] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Thx a lot. I have generated debian-installer-images_20101020ubuntu451.17_amd64.tar.gz successfully.
[10:34] <cjwatson> FourDollars: good stuff
[14:04] <sil2100> sergiusens: hey! Wanted to know if there's any progress on the artful classic snaps issue in snapcraft?
[14:41] <sergiusens> sil2100 we are building the infra for it; it should be soon; might go faster once snapcraft 2.35 is accepted and gains some miles in the archive as it is our baseline to know if things aren't going to break bad :-)
[14:43] <sil2100> sergiusens: hah, ok, I see it's ready for -updates, probably no one pushed it through yet because of the ADT regressions, but from a quick look I see those are the always-failing tests anyway
[14:43] <sil2100> sergiusens: let me pick it up after I'm done with landscape
[14:44] <sergiusens> sil2100 oh, 2.35 in xenial is what we care about for the base; 2.35 for artful and bionic fail still due to the exact thing you want fixed ;-)
[14:44] <jamespage> doko: I dropped a load of python-* bits from the server seeds; they where mostly openstack related, and should have been left as depends of other seeded packages rather than being directly included
[14:45] <sergiusens> it wouldn't hurt to get them in the archive, it won't be any less broken; I am just battling reruns of snapcraft adt for armhf due to DNS timeouts, it has been almost 10 days of clicking "rerun"
[14:45] <jamespage> doko: however you won't get any demotion candidates for now
[14:45] <jamespage> doko: I've left moin and tickcount for other general review/opionion
[14:46] <doko> jamespage: ta!
[14:55] <ventrical> can anyone help us with this - But I am talking about ubuntu-unity-desktop and ubuntu-settings package from ppa. How can we move those to universe? Usually we need to go through MOTU where we need to find a member of Motu who can upload to archive, but in this case can we ping Martin? He can review it and has upload access to archive.
[15:07] <ventrical> we need to move ubuntu-unity-desktop and ubuntu-setting from the ppa: https://launchpad.net/~unity7maintainers/+archive/ubuntu/unity7-desktop
[15:07] <ventrical> and put them in universe.. but I do not have upload privy.
[15:11] <ventrical> oh yes.. goodmorning all from Canada :)
[15:11] <sil2100> sergiusens: released xenial and zesty, looking into the artful story - let me see if the only failures are as per the current artful+ breakage and then maybe release
[15:12] <ypwong> cyphermox, i want to follow up bug 1734278, is it possible to update the file mentioned in #4 as well?
[15:13] <cyphermox> ok
[15:38] <jbicha> ventrical: file a bug and subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[15:40] <ventrical> my mistake then. I though that we went through this or that it was taken care of.
[15:41] <ventrical> uh.. I had left a message with WillCooke and he was to talk with seb so I will wait till after TB but study the link in the meantime.
[15:43] <ventrical> jeremy .. btw .. could you look at this - https://code.launchpad.net/~dale-f-beaudoin/unity-control-center/update_distro_series/+merge/334637
[15:44] <ventrical> please and thankyou
[15:50] <juliank> ventrical: "ventrical <ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798>  Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:03:28 -0500" - that's not a world-routable email address (nor is it a real name, I think that does not look good, but meh)
[15:50] <juliank> Not to mention the version change in there
[15:52] <ypwong> cyphermox, thanks for replying. Wonder if you have a schedule in mind when the fixed package can be uploaded?
[15:54] <cjwatson> I think consistent pseudonyms can be OK if that's actually what you want to achieve, but definitely needs a proper email address
[15:55] <juliank> Indeed
[16:01] <ventrical> ahhh.. thanks..
[16:01] <ventrical> i entered in a comment. So I can't edit the diffs in launchpad eh?
[16:02] <jbicha> I think the email issue is a problem with your bzr and devscripts config
[16:02] <ventrical> the pseudonym was generated by ssh
[16:03] <ventrical> jbicah  I could not find that file!
[16:03] <ventrical> you had emailed me about that .. couldn't find  it..
[16:03] <juliank> You'd edit your branch and push it
[16:04] <jbicha> maybe someone else can help you, I remember trying once but maybe I wasn't able to explain things well or maybe I didn't understand the problem well enough
[16:05] <juliank> YOu just need to set the DEBEMAIL environment variable I guess
[16:05] <ventrical> i appreciate all your help jbicha .. it is most lilely my misunderstanding
[16:05] <jbicha> because you have two problems, the changelog entry and the bzr commit itself doesn't have the right email address format
[16:05] <juliank> for example, I have<EMAIL_ADDRESS>EMAIL="Julian Andres Klode<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:06] <juliank> (exported in my .profile or my .bashrc)
[16:08] <ventrical> yes . jeremey .. we went through that .. could not find ~devscripts I think I sent you a kite about it..
[16:10] <ventrical> so do I have to delete that branch and try again?
[16:10] <jbicha> no, you can use bzr push --overwrite
[16:10] <jbicha> well the overwrite might be unnecessary, depends on how you are fixing the problem
[16:11] <ventrical> just to  get my email right
[16:11] <cyphermox> ypwong: today, hopefully. it's what I'm working on
[16:12] <juliank> ventrical: Also get the version number right
[16:12] <juliank> While you're already at it anyway
[16:13] <juliank> 15.04.0+17.10.20170930-0ubuntu2 should stay that and not get a 3 at the end
[16:13] <jbicha> juliank: have you ever used bileto?
[16:13] <ventrical> :) .. I hope you guys don't hold it against me at the TB :)
[16:13] <juliank> jbicha: No.
[16:14] <ventrical> jermey mentioned bileto - i decided to learn bzr first... looks like I am not doing to well with it :)
[16:14] <jbicha> before April, all the Unity stuff (that was set up for it) used bileto for merges and publishing to Ubuntu, but it's all optional now
[16:14] <doko> jamespage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-libvirt/+bug/1735393 is still seeded
[16:16] <ventrical> ok.. so what command  do I enter into terminal to get this e-mail identifier probem fixed?
[16:16] <jbicha> juliank: I'll let you handle review
[16:16] <jbicha> …and merge for this unity-control-center proposal if you want
[16:18] <juliank> jbicha: I don't really have any interest in that, I just did the review because it jumped at me :)
[16:19] <ventrical> juliank  what file is this in  <juliank> for example, I have<EMAIL_ADDRESS>EMAIL="Julian Andres Klode<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:19] <juliank> that = merging
[16:20] <jbicha> well I didn't know if merging and uploading might jump out at you too :)
[16:20] <juliank> I don't have a local branch of it :)
[16:20] <juliank> I'm just doing some distractions between writing
[16:20] <ventrical> hey guys .. I 'll try another method
[16:21] <cjwatson> ventrical: people keep their default environment variables in various places, but ~/.pam_environment and ~/.bashrc are common
[16:21] <juliank> ventrical: I just have export DEBEMAIL=... and export EMAIL=... lines in my .profile, but depending on setup, it might also be .bashrc
[16:21] <juliank> and then source the file or log out and back in again
[16:21] <ventrical> bashrc ..ok .. lemme see if I can track that one down :)
[16:22] <cjwatson> (I use DEBFULLNAME='Colin Watson' and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- I wouldn't have expected setting EMAIL to 'name <address>' to work consistently everywhere)
[16:22] <cjwatson> oh although I see that form is specifically documented in dch(1).  anyway I find my approach clearer :)
[16:23] <ventrical> what directory do I find bashrc?
[16:23] <juliank> I don't know, it just works
[16:23] <cjwatson> ventrical: your home directory.
[16:23] <cjwatson> and it's .bashrc, not bashrc
[16:24] <cjwatson> you will have a bad time if you forget punctuation
[16:24] <juliank> cjwatson: I had various combinations of EMAIL variables, but ultimately landed at this one as it seems to work fine
[16:25] <juliank> With stuff I had before, some tools had no name
[16:25] <juliank> or something
[16:26] <ventrical> .bashrc  ... yes . I have it .. and where do I enter the required data
[16:26] <juliank> long time ago, and mostly guesswork
[16:26] <juliank> ventrical: somewhere
[16:27] <juliank> I have it at the end
[16:27] <TJ-> ventrical: you should read the "Getting Set Up" section of http://packaging.ubuntu.com/singlehtml/index.html#document-ubuntu-packaging-guide/getting-set-up
[16:28] <ventrical> im confused .. it si a binary
[16:28] <ventrical> ok
[16:28] <juliank> it's not a binary, it's a shell script
[16:28] <TJ-> ventrical: specifically, the last few sentences entitled "Configure your shell"
[16:28] <ventrical> uh.. I went through that with seb and dirocks
[16:30] <ventrical> ok.. configure your shell .. looking at it..
[16:30] <ventrical> Hey .. 15 years of straight malware removal has affected me eh :)
[16:36] <ventrical> yes .. a c shell script - "Configure your Shell" in this link  http://packaging.ubuntu.com/singlehtml/index.html#document-ubuntu-packaging-guide/getting-set-up cant seem top find it
[16:37] <cjwatson> it's there, try searching.
[16:38] <cjwatson> it is not a "c shell" script, because that would be csh rather than bash
[16:39] <juliank> csh is hell
[16:39] <ventrical> ok.. well I am being schooled very well here... :) oh  yes .. found it - config shell script..
[16:42] <ventrical> ok.. so that wasn't so painful :)
[16:42] <ventrical> ok.. going to push a new branch then and try it out..
[16:43] <ventrical> brb
[16:51] <ventrical> changed to my real name but not my e-mail... <ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798>
[16:53] <ventrical> ok... going to try my ubuntu member account. sure wish I could solve this. will try a reboot..
[16:56] <cjwatson> May also be worth checking ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
[16:57] <cjwatson> "bzr config email"
[16:57] <cjwatson> you can change that with (e.g. in my case):  bzr config email='Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:58] <cjwatson> err sorry, not that
[16:58] <cjwatson> bzr whoami 'Colin Watson<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:59] <cjwatson> ah well I guess that was useless
[16:59] <juliank> It's been some time since I last used bzr. But at least I'm approaching git wizard levels :)
[17:09] <ventrical> reboot didn't work- still have the same message and no e-mail... so i will try my UbuntuMember account
[17:11] <jbicha> ventrical: see the recent comments at https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/12/05/%23ubuntu-devel.html
[17:15] <ventrical> yes .. checking that now..
[17:16] <ventrical> ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798:~$ bzr config email dale_f_beaudoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798:~$
[17:17] <ventrical> so it is set right  ..uh .. I'll try dch -i again
[17:18] <juliank> bzr email setting != dch email setting
[17:19] <ventrical> dch -i
[17:19] <ventrical> nope .. it's not working..
[17:20] <juliank> ventrical: How about you paste your .bashrc on paste.ubuntu.com or similar?
[17:20] <ventrical> I keep getting ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798:~ in the changelog
[17:20] <juliank> well no
[17:21] <ventrical> ok.. well yes... see if I have access..
[17:21] <juliank> Surely that's your shell prompt
[17:21] <juliank> your email address does not have :~
[17:21] <cjwatson> env | grep ^DEB
[17:21] <TJ-> it's using $USER@$HOST since DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME aren't set
[17:22] <cjwatson> right, but it won't be putting :~ on the end
[17:22] <TJ-> ventrical: are you actually using bash ?
[17:22] <juliank> TJ-: We know that since an hour
[17:22] <ventrical> just a sec..
[17:23] <TJ-> juliank: makes me wonder though, if $HOME/.bashrc has the exports in it
[17:23] <cjwatson> it probably doesn't, but let's see
[17:23] <juliank> TJ-: That's what I'm trying to figure out .)
[17:23] <ventrical> I did exactly what the link told me to do -  export DEBFULLNAME="Dale Beaudoin" export<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:24] <ventrical> appended that to .bashrc
[17:24] <juliank> ventrical: In two lines?
[17:24] <ventrical> yes!
[17:24] <Nafallo> ehrm. DEBEMAIL="Nafallo Bjälevik<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:24] <Nafallo> ^-- that works
[17:24] <juliank> Nafallo: the other one works too
[17:25] <Nafallo> just the e-mail refused to work for me on 16.04.3 at least :-)
[17:25] <TJ-> ventrical: answer cjwatson's question re what "env | grep ^DEB" shows
[17:25] <juliank> ventrical: As I said before, best to paste the .bashrc and the env output (or export output) somewhere.
[17:26] <ventrical> ok..sec.
[17:26] <cjwatson> you've also typoed DEBEMAIL as DEBMAIL, judging from the above.  it is really really really important to type things accurately.
[17:26] <jbicha> ventrical: also your bzr config email is definitely *not* right
[17:26] <cjwatson> if you consistently make small typos in this sort of thing then you're going to have a lot of problems.
[17:27] <jbicha> I assume you want something like "Dale Beaudoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>instead of what you pasted
[17:27] <ventrical> juliank  ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798:~$ env | grep ^DEB<EMAIL_ADDRESS>DEBFULLNAME=Dale Beaudoin ventrical@ventrical-MS-7798:~$
[17:27] <cjwatson> please don't collapse multiple lines onto one
[17:27] <cjwatson> if your IRC client insists on doing so then use paste.ubuntu.com instead
[17:27] <ventrical> cj .. ok  apologies..
[17:28] <cjwatson> otherwise other people are left trying to work out where the significant line breaks are supposed to go
[17:28] <juliank> OK, well fix the wrong DEBMAIL -> DEBEMAIL typo and run . ~/.bashrc again :D
[17:28] <ventrical> my apologies .. please forgive me :)
[17:29] <ventrical> did I do that ? :)
[17:29] <cjwatson> juliank: though I don't think it's just that, because we aren't seeing DEBFULLNAME taking effect
[17:29] <juliank> cjwatson: I think it's not picking that up because DEBEMAIL is not set
[17:29] <juliank> but I might be wrong
[17:29] <Nafallo> so if we're talking about devscripts regardless, CHANGELOG=changelog refuse to work. it's still trying debian/changelog :-)
[17:29] <ventrical> ok .. lemme try that
[17:30] <Nafallo> any ideas?
[17:30] <cjwatson> juliank: I don't think so, but maybe
[17:30] <juliank> Nafallo: pass -c changelog?
[17:30] <juliank> cjwatson: You seem right
[17:30] <Nafallo> juliank: that's my workaround ;-)
[17:30] <ventrical> do I edit in DEBEMAIL on both lines?
[17:31] <cjwatson> ventrical: please show us the current state of the file first
[17:31] <juliank> both lines? there should only be one
[17:31] <ventrical> export DEBFULLNAME="Dale Beaudoin"
[17:31] <ventrical> export<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:32] <cjwatson> just the second of those
[17:32] <ventrical> ok.. gottchya :)
[17:32] <cjwatson> ventrical: also, does 'env | grep EMAIL' show anything?
[17:32] <ventrical> sec
[17:33] <sdeziel> ventrical: you missed the E in DEBEMAIL
[17:33] <cjwatson> sdeziel: we've sorted that, see above
[17:33] <juliank> I don't think this channel has been that active in a long time
[17:33] <sdeziel> hehe
[17:33] <ventrical> cj shows nothing now
[17:34] <Nafallo> I don't think DEBEMAIL is sorted yet, fwiw ;-)
[17:34] <juliank> ventrical: Did you reload the ~/.bashrc with source ~/.bashrc?
[17:34]  * ogra_ sniffs on Nafallo to see if he is real
[17:34] <juliank> or just . ~/.bashrc
[17:34] <Nafallo> hi ogra_ :-)
[17:35] <ogra_> \o/
[17:35] <ogra_> awesome to have oyu back here !
[17:35] <ogra_> *you
[17:35] <Nafallo> it was time :-)
[17:35] <ogra_> :)
[17:38] <ventrical> bash: /home/ventrical/.bashrc: Permission denied
[17:38] <cjwatson> you made another typo
[17:38] <cjwatson> I am nearly certain that you typed simply '~/.bashrc' rather than '. ~/.bashrc'
[17:39] <ventrical> cj ..ok I entered it your suggest and it did nothing
[17:39] <ventrical> so I will try again?
[17:40] <cjwatson> ventrical: yep
[17:40] <cjwatson> ventrical: in the same shell as the one where you ran that last command
[17:40] <ventrical> ok
[17:41] <ventrical> The backup file debian/changelog.dch already exists --
[17:41] <ventrical> please move it before trying again
[17:41] <cjwatson> perhaps you already have an editor open in another window
[17:42] <ventrical> no I do not .. but I can delete the directory and start over again.
[17:42] <cjwatson> just delete that one file
[17:44] <ventrical> k , done .. trying again..
[17:44] <ventrical> whoops .. thats debain/changelog :)
[17:46] <mdeslaur> doko: I'm stealing your samba merge
[17:46] <ventrical> dch -i give me a blank nano screen .. so I have to redo this ?
[17:46] <cjwatson> weren't you working in a bzr branch?
[17:46] <cjwatson> if so, you should be able to do 'bzr revert debian/changelog' and you'll recover the last committed version
[17:48] <ventrical> nope ... ok.. I am ging to delete directory unity-control-center and start over .. it's good pratice .. thats for sticking this out with me all of you..
[17:49] <ventrical> brb
[17:50] <cjwatson> ok, this is exactly the sort of mistake that revision control is good at helping recover from, so it would be good to use it next time
[17:52] <ventrical> I agree with you.. I got to learn that .. downloading now ..
[17:57] <ventrical> ok .. it worked real e-mail is in .. whew.. I'm going to try and finish this up ... thanks so much eh..
[17:57] <cjwatson> excellent, finally :)
[17:59] <jbicha> ventrical: what's the output of  bzr whoami
[18:00] <ventrical> I am right in the process of commit n push  brb
[18:01] <jbicha> yeah but you need to fix bzr before committing…
[18:02] <ventrical> ok . sec
[18:02] <ventrical> jbicha bzr whoami => dale_f_beaudoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:03] <ventrical> is that still busted
[18:04] <juliank> seems like it
[18:04] <jbicha> yes your email address should be in <> and you probably want to use a real name at the beginning
[18:04] <juliank> Should be Normal Name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:05] <ventrical> thats the way it comes up in the diff - ok .. so i am going to push a new branch on this
[18:06] <juliank> ventrical: in the diff is your changelog email, not your bzr email
[18:13] <jbicha> ventrical: try running a command like this:
[18:13] <jbicha> bzr whoami "Dale Beaudoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:13] <ventrical> ok
[18:14] <ventrical> nothing happened
[18:15] <jbicha> good, now run bzr whoami to make sure it's correct
[18:15] <ventrical> oh .. here  it worked..  https://code.launchpad.net/~dale-f-beaudoin/unity-control-center/version_change/+merge/334774
[18:16] <ventrical> bzr whoami Dale Beaudoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:17] <jbicha> good, bzr is fixed now
[18:17] <ventrical> ok.. thanks jbicha .. i see your point now..
[18:17] <jbicha> you fixed the changelog but did you want to change the version to add LTS?
[18:18] <jbicha> you don't need to submit new merge proposals, just push to the same branch
[18:18] <ventrical> uh .. ? so a new thin now  :) yes.. an dso how to?
[18:18] <jbicha> what is dso?
[18:18] <ventrical> and so.. how to? :)
[18:18] <ventrical> typos
[18:19] <ventrical> how to change the version to LTS
[18:19] <ventrical> to ass LTS
[18:19] <ventrical> geesh ..
[18:19] <jbicha> the same way you changed it to 18.04, just add some extra letters ;)
[18:19] <ventrical> to ADD LTS
[18:20] <ventrical> now you tell me .. bwhahahaha...
[18:21] <ventrical> lunch
[18:21] <jbicha> well we did mention it earlier ;) https://code.launchpad.net/~dale-f-beaudoin/unity-control-center/update_distro_series/+merge/334637
[18:38] <ventrical>  i was just kidding ..  :) yes. my bad , of course..
[19:04] <ventrical> big thanks!! to all who helped me out with bzr e-mail problem
[20:01] <mdeslaur> infinity, kees: meeting now
[20:19] <Nafallo> stgraber: would there be an ubuntu channel about container stuff somewhere? I bet you'd be the best person to have clue :-)
[20:19] <stgraber> Nafallo: not really, there are knowledgable people in #ubuntu-server, otherwise for LXC/LXD we also hangout in #lxcontainers (which is not Ubuntu specific but the general LXC/LXD support channel)
[21:02] <jbicha> infinity: this looks like a fun team: https://launchpad.net/~disgusting-and-terrible-development
[21:12] <slangasek> "There are no branches related to Disgusting and terrible, but there doesn't seem to be a better way in Launchpad today."
[21:13] <juliank> oh oh what are they up too?
[21:13] <slangasek> juliank: warez
[21:13] <slangasek> does that word still have meaning? or am I dating myself by using it
[21:15] <juliank> slangasek: can we find some teen to ask?
[21:15] <juliank> I heard of it back in the last decade
[21:15] <Unit193> slangasek: People still join IRC and say 'Ciao\n!list'
[21:16] <Unit193> !list
[21:17] <cyphermox> ubottu's turn to date himself.
[21:17] <Unit193> It's very strange, but people still seek it over IRC..
[21:17] <juliank> Back in the mid ~2000s people were downloading stuff on IRC
[21:18] <juliank> I think they all switched to usenet?
[21:18] <juliank> And then bittorrent or whatever?
[21:19] <juliank> Since the late 2007s, people are doing a lot of streaming of videos on dubious sites
[21:20] <juliank> um, 2000s
[21:20] <juliank> I think video via Kodi is the latest hype?
[21:37] <Unit193> Is there a socially acceptable way to upload something to Ubuntu, where the next Debian upload will autosync?  Eg, I'd normally do -0ubuntu1, but I'd like the added benefit of an autosync (and -0build1 seems socially unacceptable and not what 'build' is for.)
[21:37] <Unit193> 0fakesync1 comes tomind, buut..
[21:42] <slangasek> Unit193: either -0build1 or -1~build1 should have the autosync behavior
[21:42] <juliank> but technically it's not a rebuild
[21:42] <slangasek> Unit193: you should certainly make sure you have a matching orig.tar.gz if you do this
[21:42] <juliank> Not that there is a better solution :)
[21:42] <Unit193> slangasek: Indeed, the tarballs will certainly match, and the delta otherwise is http://paste.openstack.org/show/PTajaBLuv168daE2P33d/
[21:43] <juliank> just typo it as -0buntu1?
[21:43] <juliank> ;)
[21:43] <slangasek> how do you know they will certainly match if it's not yet uploaded to Debian? :)
[21:43] <Unit193> juliank: Ahaha!!  Great solution!
[21:44] <Unit193> slangasek: Release tarballs since it has autotools, upstream doesn't re-release, Debian maintainer is sane, I'm part of the packaging team.
[21:44] <slangasek> ok
[21:44] <juliank> Unit193: Are you uploading in Debian too?
[21:44] <Unit193> juliank: No.
[21:45] <juliank> OK, otherwise I'd have suggested uploading to exp and syncing that
[21:45] <Unit193> VCS has it targetting unstable.
[21:47] <Unit193> juliank: Remember, I'm not a DD, so have to wait on sponsorship.  I have done all the work in Debian so the Ubuntu delta is literally d/changelog: "* Pull from Debian unreleased vcs."
[21:48] <juliank> Unit193: Maybe you should be a DD? :)
[21:52] <Unit193> juliank: Well yes, that's a goal.  Pretty fresh DM, and have to get the signed key thing figured out. :)
[21:52] <juliank> Oh well, signing key with a pseudonym is probably not eas<y
[21:53] <juliank> Given the focus on ids
[21:54] <Unit193> juliank: I've got 2 DD sigs, but as such Debian keyring maint restrictions are higher (I had to have the 2 for DM alone.)
[21:55] <juliank> Well, for pseudonyms, my policy would be meeting in at least two different occasions where the pseudonym is the same and knowledge of previous online discussions :)
[21:56] <juliank> How do others handle that?
[21:57] <juliank> It's basically the "hey, I've seen you at a previous debconf" debconf check :D
[22:04] <Unit193> (Not really sure I should derail #ubuntu-devel with this, but nevertheless.)  So far what I've done is scanned my driver's license, gpg detach signed it, then shown the DD mine in person as well as have him compare to the scanned version.
[22:04] <juliank> interesting
[22:07] <Unit193> I've never been to debconf, this last one was likely the closest it'll ever be.  Someone happened to be in my state for some reason so we met up, then at OLF I met nhandler.   Outside of those two meetups, I've never met another DD.
[22:27] <slangasek> DAM requirement for pseudonymous DDs is that the DAM has your real name on file
[22:28] <slangasek> no burning the project and burning your pseudonym with it ;)
[22:29] <Unit193> Pretty sure I wouldn't want to, I use it everywhere.
[22:31] <slangasek> like any good foreign agent would
[22:32] <Unit193> paultag already explained that if I was a gov agent, I'd have a bullet proof identity. ;)
[22:33] <slangasek> of course! because government agents know that anything less is insufficient for infiltrating Debian
[22:34] <Unit193> Only reason I'd hesitate about letting DAM know is that I know how much my name is worth to me, it's pretty worthless to them so "letting it slip" hardly matters.
[22:54] <Unit193> slangasek: Thanks for the discussion.
[22:54] <slangasek> :)
[23:05] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Catching up on backlog from above, I remember the term "warez" coming up when I was in either elementary or middle school in one of those "hip" 90s infomercials the guidance counselors showed us about the "dangers of the internet" and the "takeaway" was "don't talk to strangers online because they're automatically pedophiles and rapists"
[23:05] <tsimonq2> I really hated those :/
[23:06] <tsimonq2> Anyways, hi, back on topic :P
[23:07] <slangasek> I... what?
[23:07]  * teward is confused
[23:08] <tsimonq2> Warez, you guys were talking about warez, and I had flashbacks to the horrible videos they showed in middle school :P
[23:08]  * tsimonq2 knows that probably came out jumbled ;P
[23:08] <sarnold> did they subject you to this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI
[23:08] <cjwatson> Unit193: how much my name is worth> aha, got it, you're an occult magician and names are power :-)
[23:08] <slangasek> there were 90s videos about this?
[23:08] <cjwatson> awesome.
[23:08] <slangasek> cjwatson: ahaha
[23:08] <sarnold> cjwatson: lol
[23:08] <Unit193> cjwatson: Ahaha!  You made me chuckle, sir.
[23:09] <tsimonq2> sarnold: Actually they had one very similar but with CDs
[23:09] <tsimonq2> Not joking
[23:09] <cjwatson> (good, I was hoping that attempt at humour wouldn't misfire on people with different tastes in fiction)
[23:10] <Unit193> Doctor Who had an episode that contained that, X-Files too perhaps.
[23:10] <tsimonq2> Unit193: ahahahahaha
[23:10] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Oh yeah, these videos they showed us HAD to be made in the late 90s. CRT monitors, modems, the whole nine yards.
[23:11] <slangasek> sarnold: how did someone overlook including this video in Jake Gyllenhaal's imdb filmography?
[23:13] <sarnold> slangasek: perhaps the EU "right to be forgotten" played a role? :)
[23:13] <slangasek> sarnold: they claim it's not him but http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7772175/ but I know the truth


[00:19] <Gallomimia> why's my gui filebrowser suddenly look like win95?
[00:22] <Gallomimia> what did i do? how can i undo it? it's not the worst in the world just feels icky
[00:22] <Gallomimia> like i'm drinking bill gates' urine
[00:24] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Did you change any themes or styles?
[00:24] <Gallomimia> don't think so. i checked on those...
[00:24] <Gallomimia> the rest of the system is still "normal"
[00:25] <YankDownUnder> What was changed or installed or re-configured since it was last the way you wanted it?
[00:26] <Gallomimia> haven't really done anything to the system. aside from add a monitor whose absence was causing problems, windows appearing on the wrong screen
[00:26] <Gallomimia> the absent screen. also, the Main Menu has abherrant behavior: it won't open.
[00:27] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Fair enough...have you gone back into the monitors/displays and made sure that all of that was correct - and rebooted afterwards to make sure it was kept right?
[00:27] <Gallomimia> yes
[00:27] <Gallomimia> several times in fact
[00:27] <Gallomimia> what's the name of the file browser?
[00:27] <Gallomimia> cujo?
[00:27] <YankDownUnder> Something you can do is to open a terminal - and type: killall -9 mate-panel
[00:28] <YankDownUnder> Caja
[00:28] <Gallomimia> right
[00:28] <Gallomimia> i was adding that to my panel as a hot-launch icon when i noticed the trouble
[00:28] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: In most instances, that will kill and re-load the "main" panel...
[00:28] <Gallomimia> thought i'd changed the default browser to something else
[00:28] <Gallomimia> killall
[00:28] <Gallomimia> doh.
[00:29] <Gallomimia> the problem with the main menu persists.
[00:29] <YankDownUnder> It's meant to...
[00:30] <Gallomimia> ah. i've discovered what's going on
[00:30] <Gallomimia> i've got my 27" monitor in portrait mode, and so, my desktop is rather huge and L shaped
[00:30] <Gallomimia> the menu is popping up in empty space!
[00:30] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Ah...well, funny that.
[00:30] <Gallomimia> changing the layout fixes the problem.
[00:31] <YankDownUnder> :)
[00:31] <Gallomimia> but this layout is dreadful!
[00:31] <Gallomimia> where's the bug report forum >:(
[00:31] <YankDownUnder> It's easy enough to muck with - to change around...experimentation...and as well, you can play around with different themes (GTK2/GTK3) to make things less, er, "Windows" like...
[00:32] <YankDownUnder> https://ubuntu-mate.community/ => you can find where to do bug-filing there, mate.
[00:32] <Gallomimia> still no idea why the caja browser suddenly took on the win95 theme
[00:32] <Gallomimia> it's the only program that looks that way.
[00:32] <Gallomimia> and it never used to...
[00:33] <Gallomimia> i changed themes and no luck
[00:33] <YankDownUnder> It's something freaking out the basic theme - could be the display settings that screwed it up...
[00:33] <Gallomimia> hm.
[00:33] <YankDownUnder> You can always "blow out" the configurations and "caches" to see if that helps...
[00:34] <Gallomimia> i'll admit, this portrait view is going to take some getting used to
[00:34] <Gallomimia> um. where might that be?
[00:34] <YankDownUnder> In a terminal, you can look in the ~/.config and ~/.cache directories - and figure out what to rename or delete => they'll be re-created on logout/login...
[00:36] <Gallomimia> i don't think this system likes logout :O
[00:37] <Gallomimia> most of the themes seem to have nuked themselves back to default
[00:38] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Kinda been through this before - what I ended up doing was exactly what I described...I logged out and did it from the console (CTRL-ALT-F1) - then restarted the DM and logged in - recreated all my stuff, and was happy after that...hmm...
[00:38] <Gallomimia> ah. that's better. danka
[00:38] <Gallomimia> caja looks normal again
[00:38] <Gallomimia> i nuked its entire dir in .config
[00:41] <Gallomimia> now for that menu bug. it's reproducible 100%
[00:43] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Yep...been there done that. Ja ja ja ja...I did the same to all the caches and configurations for the menu and mate-panel...seemed to fix it...(well, since last using it...using something else right now) :)
[00:43] <Gallomimia> no, this seems to be entirely related to the screen layout
[00:44] <Gallomimia> the height of my main monitor is less than half of the height of my 2nd
[00:45] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: You're going to have to sort that out - truly - and you're absolutely sure you've configured everything correctly for your display/monitor settings? Because I have several monitors and it did take me a bit, but once I figured out the "layout", I was able to properly setup the correct resolutions (two different resolutions) - oh, and I had to drag the "menu bar" from the one display to the next to set it as my
[00:45] <YankDownUnder> primary...hmm...
[00:46] <Gallomimia> the menu shows when i change the layout to have the tops of both monitors aligned
[00:46] <Gallomimia> but in RL the bottoms of the monitors are aligned
[00:46] <Gallomimia> some routine makes it show above the top of my screen, in a non-visible area
[00:47] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: And have you looked through the wiki about different display issues?
[00:47] <Gallomimia> if i change the layout to have the landscape screen in the middle of the portrait one's edge, things work fine also
[00:47] <Gallomimia> that i'm going to have to locate
[00:47] <YankDownUnder> Hang on...
[00:48] <YankDownUnder> Couple of different options for "chatting" or "reading up on" things: https://ubuntu-mate.org/community/
[00:49] <YankDownUnder> Meanwhile, have a read through some things - it's Monday here, and I'm going to get out of the house and get some lunch, mate....
[00:49] <Gallomimia> cheers
[00:49] <Gallomimia> i'll give a read. but maybe i should get back to what i was doing
[00:50] <YankDownUnder> Gallomimia: Coolbeans...see ya on the flipside
[02:00] <Guest6709> Has anyone gotten Repetier Host working on the RPi 3?
[11:39] <arun_> is there any video driver for Dell laptops ? The scrolling smoothness is pathetic on my newly installed ubuntu mate
[11:40] <ouroumov> arun_, dell is not a GPU maker as far as I know
[11:40] <ouroumov> Please check what graphics you have using the command: inxi -G
[11:41] <arun_> Graphics:  Card: Intel Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics
[11:41] <arun_>            Display Server: X.Org 1.18.3 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
[11:41] <arun_>            Resolution<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:41] <arun_>            GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Broadwell GT1
[11:41] <arun_>            GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 11.2.0
[11:41] <arun_> thats what i'm getting
[11:41] <ouroumov> So it's Interl integrated graphics. Usually not an issue and drivers are stock installed. Check under "Software & Updates" -> Additional Driver if you've got Inter Microcode in use
[11:42] <arun_> OK
[11:43] <ouroumov> Also your choice of window manager can impact your experience, use MATE Tweak to test it
[14:19] <DarkPsydeLord> hello!
[14:24] <swift110> hey all
[14:56] <lenovo> hi
[14:56] <lenovo> sus
[15:28] <yosuga> hi
[15:47] <swift110> how are you
[16:06] <Codfection> why my plank is not running automatically after restartin
[16:15] <bekks> plank?
[16:18] <Akuli> is it the dock thing?
[16:19] <DarkPsydeLord> well planks are forms of dead trees you cant make em you cant really restart em and turn em into living plants again :( its a shame
[16:23] <DarkPsydeLord> but for the docking thingy did you added it to the startup apps?
[17:28] <veter900> привет
[17:34] <veter900> how to install Navigator wound or seven roads on rasberry PI 3 for Ubuntu mate and how to install cards,especially cards that give the video to see how to do it I'm not a Profesional,let the installation video cards
[17:53] <veter900> как на навит установить карты видео есть или тут бесполезно писать??
[18:12] <mate|90409> Hi, I'm still having the issue with synapse, crashing when I try to type something.
[18:12] <mate|90409> I'm using the comment GTK_IM_MODULE='' 'synapse'
[18:13] <mate|90409> in a terminal window after every reboot
[18:13] <Akuli> what is synapse?
[18:14] <mate|90409> Sorry I'm not sure what do you mean?
[18:15] <Akuli> what is it supposed to do?
[18:15] <Akuli> is it a photo viewer? software manager? what is it?
[18:17] <mate|90409> Synapse is a graphical launcher enabling you to start applications and also to quickly find and access relevant documents and files (by making use of the zeitgeist engine).
[18:17] <mate|90409> Synapse is a graphical launcher enabling you to start applications and also to quickly find and access relevant documents and files (by making use of the zeitgeist engine).
[18:17] <mate|90409> Synapse is a graphical launcher enabling you to start applications and also to quickly find and access relevant documents and files (by making use of the zeitgeist engine).
[18:17] <mate|90409> Synapse is a graphical launcher enabling you to start applications and also to quickly find and access relevant documents and files (by making use of the zeitgeist engine).
[18:17] <mate|90409> Synapse is a graphical launcher enabling you to start applications and also to quickly find and access relevant documents and files (by making use of the zeitgeist engine).
[18:17] <mate|90409> sorry
[18:18] <mate|90409> its one of the pre-installed applications on Ubuntu-mate
[18:18] <DarkPsydeLord> wow spam!
[18:18] <mate|90409> Sorry :D
[18:19] <mate|90409> https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/synapse
[18:19] <mate|90409> Not spam I promise :D
[18:22] <Akuli> i wonder why it's not in my repositories
[18:22] <Akuli> anyway, just go to startup applications in whatever menu you use and add it there :)
[18:26] <mate|90409> This would resolve the issue. I can open the program that bit is fine, the problem that it crashes when I try to type anything into it
[18:27] <mate|90409> https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/synapse-crashes-in-16-04/5348/6
[18:27] <mate|90409> This might give you some more info of the issue
[18:28] <mate|90409> I have seen few people posting about the issue but couldn't find a fix :/
[18:29] <Akuli> i have no idea why it segfaults
[18:30] <Akuli> if run it from the terminal with GTK_IM_MODULE="" synapse, does it still segfault?
[18:32] <mate|90409> I have been using this workaround for weeks now but I have to do this in a terminal window after every reboot its not really a fix
[18:33] <mate|90409> I was expecting a fix for the bug as its affecting many users
[18:33] <mate|90409> and the application is unusable
[18:39] <Akuli> on the ubuntu mate bug report there was a fix for your .desktop file that launches the program
[18:39] <mate|90409> what is the fix? is it just an update fix?
[18:40] <mate|90409> can I have the link?
[18:40] <Akuli> in this https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/synapse-crashes-in-16-04/5348/8
[18:40] <Akuli> the third last comment, by scarciuz
[19:57] <gordonjcp> evening
[19:57] <gordonjcp> I'm running Ubuntu MATE 16.04
[19:58] <gordonjcp> when I do CTRL-ALT-F1, F2, F3 and so on, I don't get a terminal window up
[19:58] <monery> same gordonjcp, I am running it on an armv8
[19:58] <gordonjcp> well, this is on plain ordinary intel
[19:59] <gordonjcp> is this specific to MATE or is it upstream in ordinary Ubuntu?
[20:01] <alkisg> gordonjcp: which graphics driver? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
[20:01] <gordonjcp> alkisg: intel
[20:01] <alkisg> monery: ctrl+alt+fX work fine here on a raspberry pi 2 / mate
[20:02] <gordonjcp> iirc it's an intel 4 series chipset
[20:02] <alkisg> gordonjcp: it should work fine with mate. Did you disable it with no vt switch somewhere in xorg.conf?
[20:02] <alkisg> You can run that command and see which drivers are loaded
[20:02] <gordonjcp> alkisg: it's a fairly fresh install
[20:02] <gordonjcp> alkisg: with nothing particularly strange done to it
[20:02] <gordonjcp> I could run the command if I could open a console
[20:03] <gordonjcp> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:2e12] (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller [103c:3646] Kernel driver in use: i915
[20:03] <alkisg> Inside vt7, in a normal graphical terminal
[20:03] <gordonjcp> alkisg: that had locked up
[20:03] <alkisg> Ah
[20:03] <gordonjcp> I've just rebooted it, same weirdass behaviour
[20:03] <gordonjcp> although now the desktop works
[20:03] <alkisg> If it locked, then that may be the reason it wouldn't switch
[20:03] <gordonjcp> nope, it still won't switch and it never has
[20:04] <alkisg> gordonjcp: can you try: sudo chvt 1
[20:05] <alkisg> Then login, and try sudo chvt 7 to come back
[20:05] <gordonjcp> nope
[20:05] <gordonjcp> same problem
[20:06] <alkisg> Any errors in dmesg or in xorg.log when you are trying to switch?
[20:06] <gordonjcp> it'll switch to a black screen, no way to type a command in, alt-F7 brings the desktop back
[20:06] <gordonjcp> no errors in dmesg that pertain to the display, nothing exciting in Xorg.0.log
[20:08] <gordonjcp> alkisg: aha, a clue
[20:09] <gordonjcp> alkisg: it works if I reboot (not restart X, actually reboot) with the second monitor disconnected
[20:09] <gordonjcp> alkisg: great, looks like I get to dig out my Intel chipset datasheets and go bughunting
[20:09] <alkisg> gordonjcp: the sna intel driver isn't very actively developed, and in 16.10 ubuntu will switch to the older one
[20:10] <alkisg> I think you can force it now with specifying UXA for the acceleration
[20:10] <alkisg> So, maybe a minimal xorg.conf will help
[20:10] <gordonjcp> alkisg: good point, I've got some old HP desktops that require UXA
[20:10] <alkisg> It shouldn't be related to mate at all though, just to the intel driver
[20:10] <gordonjcp> I wonder if this slightly newer one needs it - it doesn't have the stripey crap bug that older chipsets have with SNA
[21:00] <gordonjcp> alkisg: yup, plug the analogue VGA monitor in, and although I can switch to other VTs none of them are running getty
[21:19] <nomic> z.z.z.
[22:39] <mateGrant> yo
[22:54] <mateGrant> Anyone have issue with using multi-monitors with the new amdgpu pro drivers?
[23:49] <Gallomimia> have they come around? that sounds wonderful
[23:49] <Gallomimia> i changed to nvidia due to lack of drivers myself
[23:50] <Gallomimia> i'm looking at a graphical grub with the ubuntu-mate logo. it freezes. the graphical grub does not play nice at all with my system. willing to give bug reports on the issue if needed, but for now I just want to disable the graphics. how is this possible?
[23:51] <Gallomimia> er, pertinent info: it stops on the unlock full-disk encryption part
[23:52] <Gallomimia> freezes and doesn't work the first boot. ctrl-alt-del restarts, 2nd time thru it fails to display the unlock screen but at least captures the passphrase and unlocks, letting me boot. supremely annoying. how can i disable graphical grub?


[05:06] <grassvalley> 大家好，这聊天室如何使用
[05:07] <grassvalley> #k
[08:11] <lordievader> Good morning.
[12:22] <ws2k3> when i run dmesg on my server it says Segmentation fault (core dumped) my /var/log/syslog says this line: [24626248.500463] dmesg[3879] general protection ip:401813 sp:7fffa010c960 error:0 in dmesg[400000+5000] what can this be ?
[13:05] <rbasak> utlemmin`, Odd_Bloke: do you look after the Docker image that ends up being fetched as "ubuntu:trusty" by users?
[13:05] <rbasak> See bug 1505164
[13:21] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: looking
[13:22] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: this looks concerning
[13:24] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: I'm pretty baffled as to how that could happen by accident.
[13:25] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: well, the bug is wrong...because I can't repo it
[13:25] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: the versions are there but apache installs correctly
[13:25] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: yes, apache does install correclty
[13:25] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: a subseqent install of libapache2-mod-wsgi-py3 fails though as described
[13:25] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: I think that the likely story is out of date apt cache
[13:25] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: it's not that the apt cache is out of date
[13:26] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: it is that the docker image ships a package from trusty-proposed without trusty-proposed in sources.list.
[13:26] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: (and it shouldn't have a package from trusty-proposed anyway)
[13:26] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: I'm checking how docker does their builds
[13:27] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: is it something you deliver? Or not in our (Ubuntu) hands?
[13:27] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: we deliver the base image and then they do somethings to it
[13:27] <rbasak> I see, OK
[13:27] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: they as in docker
[13:28] <rbasak> So I guess the question is whether the base image includes Python from trusty-proposed or trusty-proposed in sources.list.
[13:28] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: so the image that we delivered to Docker has 3.4.0-2ubuntu1.1
[13:28] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: OK, so it sounds like they're doing something broken
[13:28] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: I'll ask kirkland to pass to Docker upstream.
[13:28] <rbasak> utlemming_sprint: thanks
[13:29] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: that is my $0.02. the cloud image team does have relationships with the docker guys
[13:29] <utlemming_sprint> rbasak: I had lunch with them on Thursday last, incidently.
[13:39] <Odd_Bloke> rbasak: utlemming_sprint: I think this is caused by the Python 3.4.3 release to and subsequent removal from the trusty archive.
[13:39] <Odd_Bloke> rbasak: utlemming_sprint: So this isn't to do with -proposed ending up on the image, it's just the image being created in that window of failure.
[13:39] <utlemming_sprint> Odd_Bloke: you're right
[13:40] <Odd_Bloke> So I'll orchestrate getting a new image out, but we know the root cause. :)
[13:40] <utlemming_sprint> Odd_Bloke: See https://partner-images.canonical.com/core/trusty/20151001/ubuntu-trusty-core-cloudimg-amd64.manifest (which matches the docker image) and https://partner-images.canonical.com/core/trusty/20151009/ubuntu-trusty-core-cloudimg-amd64.manifest which is the latest
[13:42] <rbasak> Odd_Bloke: whoa. We did that? I'm surprised it was pulled in that way instead of putting a reverted higher version in trusty-updates. Thanks.
[13:42] <utlemming_sprint> Odd_Bloke: do you have a bug number handy?
[13:42] <rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.4/+bug/1500768 is the regression bug
[14:58] <jak2000> i need always type: sudo route add default gw <IP_ADDRESS>     but wich fileneed modify for make it permanently?
[15:00] <lordievader> jak2000: I guess this is for a static ip? Add it to /etc/network/interfaces.
[15:01] <jak2000> lordievader: http://pastie.org/10476820
[15:02] <lordievader> jak2000: Exactly, there is no gateway defined.
[15:03] <jak2000> yes
[15:03] <jak2000> how to define?
[15:03] <jak2000> gateway 192.x.x.x
[15:03] <jak2000> ?
[15:05] <jak2000> done
[15:06] <jak2000> after 2,3 minutes my ubuntu server sleep, how to fix it? i dont want sleep, any advice?
[15:36] <jak2000> lordievader?
[15:38] <RoyK> jak2000: gateway <IP_ADDRESS> perhaps
[15:39] <jak2000> done
[15:40] <jak2000> RoyK i have installed ubuntu 14.04 basic, no gui installed but why sleep after 2-3 minutes i think is a full sleep bbecause not answer hte ping
[15:40] <RoyK> no idea - try a reboot to see if the gateway is right
[15:43] <jak2000> ok
[17:12] <lordievader> jak2000: You could easily find this out yourself: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/network-configuration.html#ip-addressing
[17:26] <linocisco> how to connect USB Modem to enable internet on ubuntu 14.04 server?
[17:26] <linocisco> what are the settings to configure where?
[17:38] <linocisco> how to connect USB Modem to enable internet on ubuntu 14.04 server?
[17:38] <linocisco> what are the settings to configure where?
[17:43] <linocisco> hi how to connect USB Modem to enable internet on ubuntu 14.04 server?
[17:48] <linocisco> hi how to connect USB Modem to enable internet on ubuntu 14.04 server?
[17:49] <lordievader> !patience | linocisco
[17:50] <teward> !crosspost | linocisco
[17:51] <linocisco> teward, I didn't really want to. I am using well community supported ubuntu with big hope from community
[17:55] <teward> linocisco: you still shouldn't crosspost.
[17:57] <linocisco> teward, I will use centos .bye ubuntu server
[17:58] <lordievader> I guess that is one way to deal with your problems...
[17:58] <teward> my guess from them in #ubuntu they're already using centos
[19:21] <cisconinja> good evening everyone
[19:21] <cisconinja> I am havining a little delima with rsyslog, would i be able to get assistance here?
[19:23] <lordievader> !ask | cisconinja
[19:28] <cisconinja> ok, i am trying to use rsyslog from my cisco device (<IP_ADDRESS>) and my rsyslog (<IP_ADDRESS>). I followed this tut: http://tinyurl.com/npgx6r8. I don't see anything being recorded inside my log file /var/log/cisco/cisco.log. however, i see traffic generated from my cisco device using tcpdump, and it is getting to the right port as well! http://pastebin.com/kxacY5Fk. What am i missing or doing
[19:28] <cisconinja> wrong. TIA
[19:48] <coreycb`> jamespage, neutron 7.0.0~rc2-0ubuntu2 uploaded
[19:49] <coreycb`> jamespage, that should fix some dep 8 issues
[19:55] <cisconinja> nm i figured out what was my problem . thank you all
[20:42] <hallyn> dannf: ok, i put a first merge attempt of debian's 2.4 qemu to https://launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/+archive/ubuntu/qemu-vgicv3  .  i have not yet added your patch, will do that tonight or in the morning if htis merge doesn't bom
[20:42] <hallyn> bomb
[20:42] <hallyn> which i somewhat expect it will
[20:43] <hallyn> for now, i've worked more tha the half day i was planning, so /me out
[20:43] <dannf> hallyn: fair enough - thanks!
[21:46] <med_> smoser, utlemming_sprint : if two bootable volumes are presented to a kvm (openstack) vm, shouldn't the instance still boot from vda (instead of vdb)? And I'm guessing cloud-init isn't remotely involved in this, so not sure why I"m asking you two. More of a kvm or nova issue.
[21:46]  * med_ was clearly thinking out loud ^
[23:19] <IPU> hi there :)
[23:21] <IPU> i've running 14.04.3 lts on a 64gb emmc. Server purpose would be a webserver for a groupware installation for 5-10 users (apache2, mysql, php, postfix, dovecot) and i've also was planning to add a nagios instance sometime later... any purposes concerning the partitioning scheme?
[23:23] <IPU> i thought to add at least separate partitions for /home /mail /var /tmp but im quite unsure 'bout the sizes
[23:26] <IPU> also thought about to move the /var and /mail partitions to an external usb3 hdd to avoid the wearing of the emmc but i've no experiences concerning the performance
[23:27] <JanC> /tmp should probably be a tmpfs (which is the default IIRC)
[23:28] <IPU> yeah it's default
[23:29] <JanC> not surewhy you need /mail
[23:30] <JanC> or even why you need partitions  :)
[23:31] <JanC> or at least, why you need multiple "user partitions "
[23:31] <JanC> just put everything on /home or /srv
[23:33] <IPU> primary for security reasons and to avoid a total system crash if for example a deamon is running mad and fill up the partition with trash
[23:34] <jpds_> IPU: System shouldn't crash, that's what the reserved blocks are for
[23:35] <JanC> jpds_: well, unless daemons run as root, I guess ;)
[23:36] <JanC> but, I think logs & mysql databases would be the only likely culprits for that
[23:37] <JanC> and it's possible to put user databases and user logs in their respective (virtual) home directories
[23:37] <IPU> i've often seen systems getting unaccsesible cause the entire diskspace is eaten up during malfunction or let's say during an attack
[23:38] <jpds_> IPU: Just reading the first paragraph of http://www.howtogeek.com/196541/emmc-vs.-ssd-not-all-solid-state-storage-is-equal/ would make me not put that on a server
[23:39] <JanC> jpds_: you probably also wouldn't use a USB3 HDD on a server :)
[23:39] <jpds_> JanC: I wouldn't, no
[23:42] <jpds_> IPU: Also, I wouldn't cramp so much stuff on the same box but that could just be me
[23:42] <RoyK> jpds_: For example, the SSD controller spreads read and write operations over all the memory chips in the solid-state drive
[23:42] <RoyK> erm
[23:42] <RoyK> you don't spread reads - only writes
[23:43] <JanC> so, it would be be useful to know if this is a company thing or some family/student thing  :)
[23:44] <JanC> RoyK: some expensive SSD might do internal RAID where spreading READs would be useful, but yeah  :)
[23:44] <IPU> jpds: uhm... i don't know what kind of emmc's you know but in my system i made with a class 10 sd 'bout 8,5MB/s write and 18,9Mb/s read... my emmc makes 39.3mb/s write and 140mb/s read
[23:45] <JanC> some *very* expensive SSDs
[23:45] <jpds_> IPU: My SSD does 550MB/s read, 500MB/s write
[23:46] <RoyK> eMMCs could be nice for tiering, though
[23:46] <RoyK> if there was an open source tiering solution out there
[23:47] <jpds_> Like, bcache?
[23:47] <RoyK> no, like btier
[23:47] <RoyK> tiering isn't caching
[23:47] <IPU> jpds_: i would also take a ssd instead if i would have the appropriate interfaces for it ^^
[23:48] <JanC> so, this really sounds like a home thing, right?
[23:48] <IPU> jpds_: but the hardware on which i plan this server has only sd and emmc ;-)
[23:48] <IPU> it's more like a test for a very small and low power consuming system
[23:49] <IPU> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
[23:49] <RoyK> tiering is keeping cold data on slow storage - caching is just keeping hot data temporarily duplicated on fast storage, it's not moving things around according to use
[23:49] <IPU> for those who know
[23:51] <JanC> RoyK: what's the benefits?
[23:52] <RoyK> JanC: well, if you have, say, 10TB of data, usually 10% or perhaps 20% of the data is "hot", so you want to store that on fast storage, like a raid-1+0 on fast disks or SSDs and the rest on slower storage, say 7k2 drives in raid-6
[23:52] <RoyK> JanC: with multiple tiers, that can be very beneficial
[23:53] <RoyK> JanC: uio.no has 10PiB or so ranging from SSDs for the hottest part to tape (40%) for anything not used the last 6 months or so
[23:53] <JanC> but what's the benefit over caching?
[23:54] <RoyK> caching won't last over a reboot
[23:54] <RoyK> tiering is in the storage itself
[23:54] <JanC> that depends on how you cache
[23:54] <RoyK> and caching is just duplicating things, not moving the data to faster tiers
[23:54] <JanC> lots of caches persist over reboot
[23:55] <RoyK> caching is caching, it's not tierd storage
[23:55] <JanC> well, you copy them to faster tiers
[23:55] <JanC> instead of moving
[23:55] <JanC> wich should be faster actually  ;)
[23:56] <RoyK> but then, say, you have a tier 1, ssd on pcie, tier 2, ssd on sata, tier 3, 10k sas drives, tier 4, 7k2 drives, tier 5, tape
[23:56] <RoyK> hitachi makes those things
[23:56] <RoyK> and they really work well
[23:56] <IPU> cern is also using a tiering system
[23:56] <RoyK> costs a lot, but then, if you need a bunch of petas, that costs a bit
[23:57] <RoyK> IPU: any idea what sort of storage system they use?
[23:57] <JanC> IPU: CERN's "tiering system" is a caching system
[23:58] <JanC> they don't delete data from their tapes when they copy them to HDD or SSD
[23:59] <JanC> I'm pretty sure Hitachi's "tiering" system actually is a caching system
[23:59] <IPU> http://home.web.cern.ch/about/computing/grid-system-tiers
[23:59] <RoyK> JanC: deleting data from tape takes a while and if the data isn't modified on the upper tier, it makes no sense to remove it from tape
[23:59] <JanC> it would be silly to do otherwise
[23:59] <JanC> RoyK: so then they just "cache"
[23:59] <JanC> mostly
[23:59] <RoyK> JanC: but it makes sense to *move* data from lower tiers like 7k2 drives to 10k/15k to ssds