[08:27] <Mirv> tsdgeos: did you get to testing 005? autopkgtests were running through the night (but needed manual probing in the morning to continue), seem ok so far
[08:27] <tsdgeos> Mirv: yes, i commented on the bug
[08:27] <Mirv> oh
[08:28] <Mirv> tsdgeos: thanks! I've good e-mail bug filtering but it doesn't help if I mentally ignore it somehow.
[08:31] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: i had the fix for qmltestrunner.PreviewView::test_title yesterday but failed to push it ^_^
[08:40] <mzanetti> heh :)
[09:41] <faenil> Saviq: the non-selected indicators are almost invisible when the panel is open...is that intended?
[10:23] <Laney> hey mterry, looks like stgraber took care of that for you now
[11:07] <TheRealJohnGalt> On my ubuntu touch installation (15.04), I'm running into the following error while trying to run an app (hangups). I don't believe this is an app issue however: https://i.imgur.com/b2RgYJv.png
[11:07] <TheRealJohnGalt> Is there a different python package I should be installing, or a config I should edit to properly load the lib?
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> TheRealJohnGalt: maybe file a new bug? the bug link is in the topic
[11:18] <popey> TheRealJohnGalt: you shouldn't have to insatll python at all
[11:18] <popey> TheRealJohnGalt: it should be inside the application
[11:19] <TheRealJohnGalt> hm, okay
[11:19] <popey> TheRealJohnGalt: I just told the developer
[11:20] <TheRealJohnGalt> oh wow, ty popey.
[11:21] <popey> np
[11:22] <oSoMoN> hey all, I updated my phone to the latest rc-proposed earlier this morning, and dekko wasn’t there any longer, and I’d swear I didn’t uninstall it myself. known issue?
[11:25] <TheRealJohnGalt> oSoMoN: I just upgraded rc-proposed and had to reinstall it from the app store.
[11:25] <popey> oSoMoN: it was mistakenly added to the image
[11:25] <TheRealJohnGalt> ah.
[11:26] <oSoMoN> popey, but that shouldn’t uninstall a version that was manually installed it the past, right?
[11:26] <popey> oh, I'd hope not.
[11:26] <DanChapman> oh! so Dekko's getting removed for everyone on rc-proposed. Surely that's a bug
[11:26] <popey> Yes, that would be a bug
[11:26]  * popey checks his phone
[11:26] <popey> Yes, it's gone from mine.
[11:27] <popey> paging sil2100
[11:27] <sil2100> Oh oh
[11:27] <popey> "click-list | grep dekko" returns nothing
[11:28] <sil2100> Ok, so we have a bug - I removed it from the rootfs since it got added there by 'mistake' but that shouldn't uninstall all the manually installed ones
[11:28] <popey> what would _do_ that!?
[11:28] <oSoMoN> that’s a nasty bug
[11:28] <sil2100> Very nasty
[11:28] <sil2100> hmmm
[11:28] <popey> I'll file it now.
[11:28] <sil2100> We need to have a bug for that srsly
[11:29] <sil2100> popey: thanks
[11:30] <sil2100> eh, sorry about that, I had no idea something like that would happen, not sure WHY it would happen
[11:31] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1558032
[11:33] <popey> that should probably have a relatively high priority :)
[11:33] <mcphail> I've had this happen with the terminal app, when falshing different channels
[11:33] <popey> oooh!
[11:33] <sil2100> ;/
[11:34] <mcphail> Thought it was a "feature" ;)
[11:34] <sil2100> mcphail: ;p
[11:34] <popey> 1984
[11:35] <ogra_> just sell it as a feature "we care about your diskspace" :)
[11:35] <popey> we don't care about your bandwidth
[11:36] <ogra_> bandwith is cheap :P
[11:40] <popey> Yours might be :)
[11:40] <aarib> can you tell what devices are supported by ubuntu touch?
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> !devices
[11:41] <aarib> what exactly does emulator arm and emulator x86 mean
[11:41] <popey> the emulator is basically qemu (software) for running ubuntu touch on your desktop in a window
[11:41] <popey> armhf means it emulates an arm cpu (so slow)
[11:42] <popey> and x86 means it emulates an intel/amd cpu (so slightly less slow)
[11:43] <aarib> ok
[11:43] <aarib> thank you
[11:56] <krijn_> When will the rc-proposed channel be based on xenial? (like the devel-proposed right now?)
[12:01] <popey> krijn_: good question! some time after 16.04 is released I imagine
[12:02] <krijn_> I supposed so, but you never know ;)
[12:12]  * ogra_ guesses rather around the 16.10 timeframe
[12:16] <popey> will that be when we switch to snappy too?
[12:20] <davmor2> krijn_: iirc the plan is to get xenial out and upgrade depending on the amount of work and timing the ota after release or ota after that. but mostly will be played by ear after xenial is released.
[12:26] <ogra_> popey, for sure we'll be switching to the snappy packaging format by then ... wether the system will already be snappy i dont know (porting everything to systemd etc)
[12:27] <ogra_> with the next big iteration i think that click packages will definitely die
[12:30] <krijn_> the annoying thing is that it doens't seem to be possible to run things like play.spotify.com or google docs in the mobile browser
[12:31] <krijn_> Ubuntu Phone would be very useful if I could run stuff like that. Now it constantly thinks - also when using the browser full screen - that we're dealing with a mobile browser, so editing in google docs is not possible (anymore, it used to be possible) now it wants you to download the android app
[12:31] <krijn_> so, I was looking for a way to change the user agent, so I could fool those web apps.
[12:32] <ogra_> use the webapp-container then
[12:32] <ogra_> it is pretty easy to mangle the UA with it
[12:33] <krijn_> okI tried that, but it says there's no screen defined
[12:33] <ogra_> ?
[12:33] <ogra_> on the phone ?
[12:34]  * ahayzen wonders if there are plans to be able to switch the UA from within the webbrowser itself
[12:34] <krijn_> jup, on the phone
[12:34] <ogra_> krijn_, where do you see that ? in the log of your click package ?
[12:35] <krijn_> it works on my computer though
[12:35] <krijn_> wait, I just switched it off ;)
[12:37] <ogra_> the click package should care for all this .... (or rather the ubuntu-app-launcher that execs the line from the .desktop file where you define the UA as option to the webapp container binary)
[12:39] <krijn_> I get: UbuntuClientIntegration: connection to Mir server failed. Check that a Mir server is running, and the correct socket is being used and is accessible. The shell may have rejected the incoming connection, so check its log file Aborted (core dumped)
[12:40] <krijn_> By the way, I'm not a devver, just trying to search for ways to make Ubuntu phone more useful for everyday use without too many hassles
[12:41] <ogra_> krijn_, and wheer do you get that ? is that in the log of your click app ?
[12:41] <krijn_> text obviously from the terminal n the phone
[12:41] <ogra_> ah, that doesnt work
[12:41] <krijn_> ah, i was looking for a way around it already
[12:41] <krijn_> so i can stop searching apparently
[12:41] <ogra_> (well, it does ... there is some way to exec the app launcher manually so you get the right env set up ... but i forgot how)
[12:42] <ogra_> but rolling a click package is trivial for that
[12:44] <ogra_> (you need three text files and an icon in a dir ... then run "click build" inside that dir )
[12:44] <krijn_> but webapp-container https://play.spotify.com on the normal cli works like a charm
[12:44] <ogra_> on the phone ?
[12:44] <krijn_> no, on ubuntu desktop
[12:44] <ogra_> yeah, totally different setup
[12:44] <krijn_> butwait, now there are 2 things mixing up
[12:45] <ogra_> phone systemsd need to be way more restrictive
[12:45] <ogra_> *systems
[12:46] <ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/webapp-generator/
[12:46] <ogra_> try this
[12:47] <krijn_> thanks, i was just working through it ;)
[12:56] <krijn_> hmmm. unfortunately it doesn't work so simple
[12:59] <krijn_> like: spotify is in a container and if you want to login, it opens a web browser in which spotify has already logged in ,but because the app is sanboxed, it doesn't know.. anyway, this doesnt work unfortunately. Unless.. i can change the user agent from within the click-file
[13:02] <ogra_> thats a limitation of that webtool you used to create the package
[13:03] <ogra_> you can define proper pattern matching so that the pw request is inside the container
[13:03] <ogra_> but i think the web tool doesnt allow that
[13:06] <krijn_> I suppose thats something in the Desktop Entry part or apparmor?
[13:06] <ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/web/ubuntu-webapps-guide/ ... see the "--webappUrlPatterns" option ... the generator only puts the website there by default ...
[13:07] <ogra_> but youz would want the password site there too
[13:07] <krijn_> jup
[13:07] <krijn_> and a different ua
[13:08] <krijn_> anyway, at work now ;) Although it s a bit part of my job finding out how things work.. I m not supposed to write apps during work hours :p
[13:10] <ogra_> create three files like:
[13:10] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15401328/
[13:10] <ogra_> and put an icon.png next to them ...
[13:11] <ogra_> then just run "click build" in that dir
[13:26] <krijn_> hm... that is almost the same to what the online app builds
[13:33] <ogra_> krijn_, except that you can edit the webapp-container commandline in the .desktop file freely now
[13:34] <ogra_> (to add UA override and patterns)
[13:34] <krijn_> ah, ic :) well, next search: ua override and patterns ;)
[13:43] <davidcalle> krijn_: one thing that's not in the doc yet is the "--enable-media-hub-audio" option which will allow your webapp to play music even if it's not in the foregound
[13:44] <krijn_> THAT is good news! :)
[13:45] <krijn_> anyway, i should dive into this tonight or so :)
[13:45] <davidcalle> krijn_: that will be added to the online generator with other options in the near future. In any case, have fun :)
[13:46] <krijn_> thank you davidcalle and ogra_
[14:08] <robin-hero> hey all
[14:08] <robin-hero> where can I find the crash log on my device?
[14:15] <dobey> there isn't a "crash log" exactly. crashes tend to dump output to /var/crash which whoopsie uploads though. you can go to the privacy settings in system-settings and it has a link to all the crashes your phone has uploaded
[14:23] <robin-hero> dobey, thanks, i'm looking for the Here maps crash log
[14:31] <popey> there's also ~/.cache/upstart where many applications spit out logs robin-hero
[15:08] <faenil> devel
[15:08] <faenil> oops :)
[17:07] <dobey> oSoMoN: is there a way to clear the Ubuntu.Web Webview widget, so that it's blank and loadProgress is reset?
[17:29] <krijn_> so, it turns out that when building web apps and assiging different user agent strings, you can do a lot more :)(
[17:30] <krijn_> unfortunately it turned out Spotify still silently uses flash somewhere... :(
[17:30] <krijn_> google drive works like a charm
[17:30] <dobey> yeah, amazon music uses flash too i think :-/
[17:31] <krijn_> I thought Spotify web stopped using it a while ago...
[17:32] <krijn_> the annoying thing is when you use convergence and a bt keyboard, the on screen keyboard pops up on the phone (not a big deal) and the spell correction starts to kick in, things don't work so smooth anymore
[17:33] <krijn_> after turning it off, google docs works really well on a Nexus 4, pretty amazed
[17:42] <krijn_> and the --enable-media-hub-audio works good as well
[17:48] <oSoMoN> dobey, set url to "about:blank" ?
[17:49] <dobey> oSoMoN: how can i do that when pushing the back button on a pagestack? also, doing that doesn't reset loadProgress to 0, which is also what i want to happen
[17:50] <dobey> oSoMoN: basically what i want, is to reset all the state of the widget
[17:50] <dobey> i guess there's no way to do that though?
[17:51] <oSoMoN> dobey, no, but why do you need loadProgress to be 0 ?
[17:51] <oSoMoN> dobey, if you’re displaying some sort of progress bar, you could make it conditionally visible on the "loading" property
[17:52] <dobey> because using the loading property doesn't seem to work right, so i changed it to use "loadProgress != 100"
[17:52] <dobey> but the main issue is that the previously loaded page is still shwogn
[17:52] <dobey> shown
[17:53] <dobey> oSoMoN: this is pay-ui btw, not a webapp
[17:53] <dobey> so trying to avoid having the "add a card" page being shown immediately before the paypal page, when certain actions are taken by the user
[17:54] <dobey> and vice versa
[18:05] <oSoMoN> dobey, how about setting the webview’s visible property to false?
[18:06] <dobey> hmm
[20:18] <mterry> kenvandine: can you pop into #ubuntu-unity?
[20:18] <kenvandine> sure


[16:56] <astraljava> o/
[16:56] <astraljava> Anyone here to chat in an informal meeting?
[17:02] <shnatsel> nope
[17:02] <shnatsel> too busy
[17:22] <ScottL> astraljava, i'm here, was upstairs working on some stuff
[17:22] <ScottL> (as most times) i'm out and about but check irc pretty often
[17:24] <ScottL> working on a spec for new plymouth, lightdm greeter, wallpaper images for 12.04
[17:25] <ScottL> and some other things
[17:25] <astraljava> Right. I've been very busy with other life, but I'll try to start working on documentation and bug fixing.
[17:26] <ScottL> and wondering how i should start the theme update, specifically how do i handle basically purging all the old settings and code from -default-settings and starting fresh with the xubuntu-default-settings code
[17:27] <astraljava> Hmm... I'm not familiar with that at all, but shouldn't it be as easy as replacing the file(s), committing and uploading?
[17:27] <ScottL> i'm not sure, i was going to ask TheMuso or micahg about it later
[17:29] <astraljava> Okay. If you have trouble with that, let me know and I can have a look at it.
[17:50] <ScottL> astraljava, i know that i can completely replace the code in the package, but i figure someone will say afterwards, "oh, what you _really_ should have done is...." ;)
[17:51] <ScottL> shnatsel, in what form should i do the spec for the artwork
[17:51] <ScottL> ?
[17:52] <ScottL> i was trying to find doctormo to ask him, but he hasn't been on much lately
[17:52] <shnatsel> ScottL: see the logs... I copy-pasted everything they said to yoy
[17:52] <ScottL> (not that i blame him with a new baby)
[17:52] <shnatsel> *copy-pasted to you
[17:52] <ScottL> shnatsel, i'll check
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel, i looked at the logs (http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/28/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html) basically just said to specify things but didn't give preference where
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> shnatsel, could this be part of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs  ?
[18:05] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: blueprint
[18:05] <scott-upstairs> roger that, will do blueprint then :)
[18:05] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: well, blueprint should link to wiki page or google doc
[18:06] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: for the full specification
[18:06] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: I prefer gdocs personally
[18:06] <shnatsel> scott-upstairs: we use them in elementary and we're quite happy
[18:06] <shnatsel> with them
[18:11] <astraljava> ScottL: That's a good point.
[20:00]  * jussi slaps astraljava
[20:00] <jussi> btw, anyone here any good with cad/cadlike applications ?
[20:14] <astraljava> No idea where that came from, but I guess I deserved that.
[20:38] <jussi> astraljava: just because its preemtive - Im sure you havent done what you promised yet :)


[00:01] <phillw> subman: I can't help on that one.. I'd suggest asking on the lubuntu mailing list.
[00:02] <subman> phillw, thanks for the help!
[00:02] <phillw> if you installed lubuntu ONTO ubuntu, you need to ask on ubuntu area.
[00:02] <subman> Thanks.
[03:08] <SonikkuAmerica> Lubuntu 13.04 VBoxing complete.
[03:25] <phillw> SonikkuAmerica: 13.04 was running in VBox, KVM and LVM :)
[03:26] <SonikkuAmerica> XD. I'm going to set it to the 13.10 preliminary testing as soon as it's available. :)
[12:49] <TheMamboKing> Hello everyone
[14:17] <cristina> !ro
[14:21] <cristina> hello
[14:21] <cristina> any messenger with webcam?
[14:21] <cristina> pidgiin works?
[14:44] <dakine1> hello
[14:45] <dakine1> hi
[15:14] <Atum> Hey guys, I'm having issues on lubuntu 13.04. Everytime I reboot the computer, my desktop icons get all messed up, and the wallpaper gets back to default
[15:14] <holstein> explain "all messed up"
[15:14] <Atum> Am I missing something? any config..
[15:14] <Atum> well, I adjust them in a different order
[15:15] <Atum> everytime I boot up, it gets to the default position
[15:15] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1843824 might be relevant, though,, i might just use something like nitrogen
[15:16] <Atum> Hmm, I'll check it out
[15:16] <Atum> thanks dude :)
[15:16] <holstein> for me, if i wanted to use icons on the desktop like that, i would just not use LXDE..
[16:19] <cristina> hello
[16:19] <cristina> !ro
[16:27] <cerebrate> welcome
[16:27] <cerebrate> TO THE ICE CREAM
[16:29] <Myrtti> ok?
[16:30] <wxl> cerebrate: +1
[16:30] <wxl> fink ployd rulez.
[16:54] <Atum> Hey guys, I'm having issues on Lubuntu 13.04. I've created some desktop icons, and changed their position on the screen. Everytime I boot up those icons get back to their default position. How do I "set" em to a fixed position?
[16:59] <Atum> maybe I should use a script to do it?
[17:00] <holstein> Atum: i would just use a different file manager.. or DE in general
[17:02] <Atum> holstein, LXDE doesnt support those functions?
[17:03] <Atum> or it was not designed for icons?
[17:04] <holstein> Atum: what you are going to want to look for is thunar AFAIK.. getting thunar to draw the icons like that
[17:04] <holstein> Atum: and, what im suggesting is, maybe you would want something that is more "out of the box" the way you want it
[17:06] <holstein> i mean, its all open, so in theory, the answer is always "yes".. but, the goal of lxde in general is to be light.. not necessarily "pretty" or "persistent"
[17:13] <Pkot> Hi!
[17:13] <Pkot> Suomesta ketään?
[17:14] <Pkot> So quietly
[17:15] <Atum> Hmm I'll check thunar
[17:15] <Atum> thanks
[17:15] <holstein> !fi
[17:16] <Atum> So, PCmanFM is resposable for those icon positioning, right?
[17:17] <Atum> Thunar is a file manager like pcmanfm
[17:17] <Myrtti> too late
[17:17] <Myrtti> (for the !fi factoid)
[17:17] <holstein> yup.. missed :/
[17:17] <holstein> yeah, its pcmanfm.. not thunar.. my bad
[17:18] <Atum> oh, ok
[17:18] <holstein> http://blog.lxde.org/?p=804 is relevant
[17:19] <Atum> That's quite useful, thanks
[17:19] <holstein> i would have been quicker with that, but i was thinking thunar for some reason..
[17:23] <Atum> I love this lxde interface, its simple, useful and beautiful. Lubuntu its such a perfect mix..
[17:25] <phillw> holstein: seems "all quiet on the Western front" (i.e. installs and upgrades seem to be working well) :)
[17:26] <holstein> phillw: \o/
[18:21] <fordmechanic27> Has anyone used LXLE? That's what I'm on right now.
[18:22] <Unit193> Hopefully someone in #lxle has at least once. :P
[18:22] <fordmechanic27> Ha, you
[18:22] <fordmechanic27> you'd hope so
[18:47] <pmatulis> so anyone get any bruises from upgrading to 13.04 ?
[18:51] <Unit193> Only done one upgrade so far, but only thing I noticed was that I personally "needed" to hold a couple packages from upgrading, and for some reason it didn't pull in the kernel.  (Though, I use liquorix on that one, so I wouldn't use them anyway and they are easy to pull in.)
[19:25] <wxl> Unit193: needed?
[19:27] <Unit193> I had quotes on that...  In order to keep a feature functioning, and functioning without pulling in crazy depends.  (More than one package.)
[19:28] <wxl> hm, ok i'll take your word for it. i'm just trying to figure out what it might be? was it like a gtk app that went qt? (i have the opposite problem on the kubutnu machine at work; i want qalculator but they stopped qalculator-kde and now it's all qalculator-gtk)
[19:38] <wxl> ahhhh well that makes sense. did we get rid of indicators in raring?
[19:42] <Unit193> You combined channels, didn't you?  They went GTK3 in quantal, which isn't compatible with GTK2 panels.  Also, the raring indicators have silly depends that bring in a couple unity packages I wasn't interested in having on the computer, and bamf, another daemon.
[19:48] <wxl> ew
[21:22] <FrankieJ> hey, i install lubuntu on top of ubuntu 12.04 LTS because compiz/unity was using too much memory, but now i have lubuntu, i was wondering if i can remove compiz/unity without affecting the system?
[21:29] <Unit193> !purelubuntu
[21:30] <genii-around> I wonder if all those factoids are still applicable now ( !purelubuntu !purekde and so on)
[21:32] <Unit193> He hasn't updated it for raring yet, so it would appear.  I'm guessing he'll have it up soonish.
[21:33] <Unit193> FrankieJ: You'll of course want the 12.04 version linked at the top.
[21:33] <Unit193> genii-around: He also changed the URL, but put a redirect.
[21:57] <phillw> !flood
[21:58] <Unit193> Yes?
[22:11] <phillw> Unit193: the bot on ##phillw doesn't have the factiod and I needed the link for image adding :D
[22:25] <plugins> hello!
[22:26] <plugins> i need some help with plugins in browsers
[22:26] <plugins> can i ask to someone?
[22:27] <plugins> please, there's anybody?
[22:27] <wxl> !ask | plugins
[22:29] <plugins> so i have an old pc and today i decided to install lubuntu. first i tried chromium: java plugin was obsolete and flash doesn't work (java -version tell me I have java sun 8).
[22:29] <plugins> so i removed chromium and installed opera.
[22:29] <plugins> now java and flash crash.
[22:30] <plugins> opera see correct plugins (in options, etc.)
[22:30] <plugins> what's the problem?
[22:30] <wxl> which version of lubuntu?
[22:30] <plugins> the latest, 13.04
[22:30] <plugins> can i control with some command?...
[22:32] <wxl> what version of the plugins do you have in chromium? go to chrome://plugins/
[22:32] <wxl> of course you'd need to have chromium
[22:32] <wxl> i wouldn't touch opera with a 10 foot pole, but that's just me
[22:32] <plugins> i have only opera now
[22:32] <wxl> i can't help you with opera
[22:33] <wxl> here's where you can find help with opera: http://my.opera.com/chat/blog/
[22:36] <plugins> i'm installing chromium again
[22:51] <wxl> phillw: i had not
[22:51] <wxl> but really shouldn't have a bearing, unless it's a ppc
[22:51] <wxl> duh duh duh DUH
[22:53] <phillw> wxl: or a low spec intel
[22:53] <wxl> phillw: do they limit java/flash versions
[22:54] <phillw> wxl: xombrero may do.
[22:57] <wxl> phillw: you'd think that xombrero is going to change his plugin versions? :)
[22:58] <phillw> wxl: it comes with none :)
[22:58] <wxl> phillw: exactly my point silly :)
[23:00] <wxl> certainly would be lighter
[23:00] <wxl> but i suspect the issue is plugins more than anything
[23:00]  * wxl wonders
[23:00] <wxl> !info opera
[23:00] <wxl> yeah didn't think so
[23:01] <wxl> :)
[23:02]  * wxl wants the qt version of qalculate
[23:02]  * wxl whines
[23:02] <plugins> hi, i'm back again.
[23:02]  * wxl realizes this is quite offtopic
[23:02] <wxl> oh hai
[23:02] <plugins> i've removed java oracle
[23:02] <wxl> so install iced tea
[23:02] <plugins> and set openjdk with icedtea
[23:03] <plugins> and now java works
[23:03] <plugins> remain shockwave flash
[23:03] <wxl> !info adobe-flashplugin ! plugins
[23:03] <plugins> in english, the error could be something like: "impossible to load shockwave flash"
[23:03] <wxl> gr
[23:03] <wxl> !info adobe-flashplugin | plugins
[23:04] <wxl> really?>???
[23:04] <plugins> ?
[23:04] <phillw> wxl: adobe dropped support, it was well advertised
[23:04] <plugins> eh?
[23:05] <wxl> phillw: oh right but -installer and -downloader and -nonfree are still there?
[23:05] <plugins> yes
[23:05] <plugins> i've installed...
[23:05] <plugins> flashplugin-downloader adn installer
[23:05] <wxl> well you could always get chrome :/ or is that not a possibility either, phillw ?
[23:06] <plugins> in chrome://plugins ->  Adobe Flash Player - Versione: 11.2 r202 Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202
[23:06] <phillw> wxl: Chromium support is a mess. that is why I personally advise a non-ubuntu ppa; on the grounds that it works. BUT, it is not 'supported' by (l)ubuntu.
[23:06] <plugins> it seems to see this plugin
[23:06] <wxl> you could try gnash or lightspark
[23:07] <wxl> or phillw 's solution
[23:07] <wxl> afk
[23:07] <plugins> hum? i'm not so practice. i have to make this pc working for my parents and the only requests is browser everywhere without problems.
[23:08] <plugins> tell me what to do, and i'll do it.
[23:08] <plugins> it's all the day that i'm working and i'm really tired! xD
[23:09] <plugins> i have ubuntu on my laptop, and i have no problems with plugin. (i have opera)
[23:09] <phillw> plugins: I can chat better on #lubuntu-offtopic as my proposed solution requires you to use a ppa which is not officially supported.
[23:09] <plugins> it's a problem of lubuntu, so?
[23:09] <phillw> plugins: it seems an issue with you and chromium
[23:09] <plugins> lol
[23:10] <plugins> so, could you tell me what to do?
[23:10] <plugins> ppa will install a plugin for shockwave?
[23:10] <phillw> plugins: I will be on #lubuntu-offtopic if you want to try it.
[23:12] <phillw> shockwave causes 100% CPU time on my system on bad sites.
[23:13] <plugins> wxl what's the gnash solution?
[23:18] <wxl> plugins: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash#Free_Software_Alternatives
[23:33] <plugins> i'm testing gnash
[23:33] <plugins> and i have some problems.
[23:33] <plugins> the mai frame of facebook games doesn't load.
[23:33] <plugins> why?
[23:44] <plugins> wxl: i have to choose the plugin
[23:44] <plugins> or i have to install them both?
[23:45] <wxl> choose phillw
[23:45] <wxl> oops :)
[23:45] <wxl> plugins: i mean
[23:47] <plugins> ok let's change channel


[20:08] <Guest23564> look my blog http://casamoney.it and earn money in page Power information.
[20:11] <genii> Guest23564: Advertising in #ubuntu channels is not allowed


[00:00] <wallyworld> then you copy the generated files up the the public bucket
[00:00] <wallyworld> hatch: i just tried juju --version and it works for me, what version of juju do you think you have installed?
[00:00] <lamont> error: flag provided but not defined: --version
[00:00] <lamont> 1.12.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.04.1~juju1
[00:00] <hatch> wallyworld: I JUST did it this morning, following the 'install guide'
[00:00] <lamont> anyway, afk for a couple of hours
[00:00] <hatch> trying to see what the typical user would see
[00:01] <hatch> lamont: thanks for confirming :)
[00:01] <wallyworld> lamont: ok, ping us in #juju-dev if you want any more input
[00:01] <wallyworld> hatch: i'm running from source, but "juju --version" worked  for me
[00:02] <sarnold> hatch: the python version and the go version have different --version vs version behavior. that's almost a decent way to tell which one you have already.... :)
[00:02] <sarnold> wallyworld: (oh, has that been fixed?)
[00:02] <wallyworld> i didn't realise there was a difference
[00:02] <wallyworld> i've only ever run go juju
[00:02] <hatch> oh that's odd :)
[00:02] <sarnold> ah :))
[00:03] <wallyworld> ian@wallyworld:~$ juju --version
[00:03] <wallyworld> 1.15.0-raring-amd64
[00:03] <hatch> sarnold: thanks for clearing that up
[00:03] <sarnold> wallyworld: neat! yay :)
[00:03] <hatch> 1.12.0-precise-amd64
[00:03] <hatch> here
[00:03] <hatch> on stable
[00:03] <wallyworld> ah ok. there's been lots of fixes post 1.12 i think
[00:03] <wallyworld> we are looking to release 1.14 next week
[00:04] <hatch> well then....someone should update stable :P
[00:04] <wallyworld> for now, there's a 1.13.3
[00:04]  * hatch stokes fire
[00:04] <wallyworld> hatch: agree, i think that will happen
[00:04] <wallyworld> each even number release is considered stable
[00:04] <hatch> but really though thanks - it looks like the go version doesn't handle the -- on 1.12.0
[00:04] <wallyworld> appears so, sorry
[00:04] <hatch> but if it works fine on your version then I won't file a bug
[00:05] <wallyworld> ok
[00:06] <hatch> this happened when running through the Local Configuration setup docs
[00:06] <hatch> it says `juju generate-config --show` which failed
[00:06] <hatch> just fyi
[00:07] <wallyworld> hmmm. seems the docs may need some love then
[00:08] <hatch> I'm guessing that it was just done with a more recent version
[00:08] <hatch> unless even yours doesn't do --show :)
[00:45] <marcoceppi_> lamont: still having issues with private cloud?
[01:14] <wallyworld> marcoceppi_: i think he's afk for a bit, but i got his public bucket url sorted, now he needs to generate image metadata
[01:15] <marcoceppi_> wallyworld: cool
[01:41] <AskUbuntu> Juju e MAAS get error in apt | http://askubuntu.com/q/344064
[06:39] <kenn> Question about the bridge node. Due to budget constraints I can only run a single instance in the cloud. Are there any reasons why I wouldn't want to deploy my services to that first machine 0, or anything I should be aware of when doing that? I've done it locally so it's possible to do.
[07:37] <AskUbuntu> Can I deploy juju on Eucalyptus | http://askubuntu.com/q/344137
[08:08] <fwereade_> jcastro, marcoceppi_: if either of you are around, I'd appreciate advice re resolving doc conflicts caused (at least partly) by header/footer changes
[08:09] <fwereade_> jcastro, marcoceppi_: eg "take your tree, copy in $files from trunk, run tools/build.py, commit, merge trunk in"
[09:35] <AskUbuntu> help: bootstrap error | http://askubuntu.com/q/344168
[13:17] <jcastro> fwereade_: evilnickveitch is your guy there
[13:18] <jcastro> fwereade_: I am pretty sure he strips all that out and regens the footer/header anyway
[13:18] <fwereade_> jcastro, thanks, I chatted to him
[14:09] <jcastro> marcoceppi_: also ... review queu!
[14:09] <marcoceppi_> jcastro: yup :\
[15:02] <evilnickveitch> jcastro, fwereade_ I just posted to the list about the new, super-easy way of creating pages I just sorted out this morning...
[15:03] <jcastro> k
[15:13] <fwereade_> evilnickveitch, cool, thanks
[15:20] <bloodearnest> heya all - am having some problems with juju-deployer (0.2.3) hanging after deploying all services, but before adding relations
[15:21] <bloodearnest> Ctrl-C'ing gives me a tb: https://pastebin.canonical.com/97357/
[15:21] <bloodearnest> same tb every time
[15:23] <bloodearnest> had this happen on 2 different raring machines, on both lxc and openstack (canonistack) envs
[15:23] <bloodearnest> any pointers to fix?
[15:31] <jcastro> http://pad.ubuntu.com/7mf2jvKXNa
[15:31] <jcastro> T minus 30 minutes until the Charm Call!
[15:51] <jcastro> 10 minutes until the juju charm call!
[16:09] <mattyw> jcastro, is there a link to just watch the hangout?
[16:10] <marcoceppi_> mattyw: ubuntu-on-air.com
[16:10] <marcoceppi_> mattyw: http://ubuntuonair.com/
[16:11] <mattyw> marcoceppi_, of course, thanks
[16:48] <Chor> hi there
[17:15] <kurt_> Can you guys tell me if its correct that a deployment fails when there is an existing configuration file for a charm?  I'm seeing this when having destroyed keystone, then trying to redeploy it.  Maybe an adjunct questions is when a service such as keystone is destroyed, should it clean up it's configuration files cleanly?
[17:24] <marcoceppi> kurt_: if you destroy a service, then try to deploy it again, I believe you get an error about service already deployed
[17:24] <marcoceppi> kurt_: is that the error you're getting?
[17:25] <kurt_> marcoceppi: no, the problem, specifically with keystone was that the /etc/keystone/keystone.conf is left behind
[17:26] <kentb> does anyone have a *fairly current* and recommended set of steps for deploying openstack charms with maas & juju, especially with quantum-gateway.  For whatever reason, with quantum-gateway in the mix, keystone authentication with quantum gets hosed. every. freaking. time.
[17:26] <marcoceppi> kurt_: that's a different issue
[17:26] <sarnold> early charms might expect the unit to be destroyed when the service is unconfigured / terminated / etc. I'm not surprised it didn't do a great job of cleaning up
[17:27] <kurt_> kentb: I've been working on this for some time.  I hope to have something out in the near future
[17:28] <kurt_> there are several guides out there, but you have to be patient and figure it out
[17:29] <kentb> kurt_: yeah, that's the part that's about burned up (patience).  I'll also take whatever you have in the meantime. The quantum-gateway piece is the one that I just can't seem to crack.
[17:30] <kurt_> marcoceppi: this appears to be some conflict in removing 2013.1.2-0ubuntu2~cloud0 and it's need for /etc/keystone/keystone.conf
[17:30] <kurt_> kentb: yes, I've ran in to this too.  you have to plan your deployment topology very carefully
[17:31] <kurt_> kentb: have you seen jamespage's excellent guide? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OpenStackHA
[17:33] <kentb> kurt_: yep. I've worked off of that many times.  I don't have enough nodes for the HA part, so, I've tried to make do with 6 physical machines, each with at least two nics.
[17:34] <kurt_> kentb: I'm doing mine completely on VMs
[17:35] <kurt_> kentb: and you are running in to one of the challenges I am facing as well.  I'm consolidating a lot of services to fewer nodes.
[17:35] <kentb> kurt_: yeah, I'm wondering if putting too much on one machine might be hurting me
[17:36] <kentb> (with juju-core)
[17:36] <kurt_> these guys test with a small amount of nodes, so they have managed to figure it out
[17:36] <kurt_> if there was one thing I wish were out there (hint hint jcastro)
[17:36] <kurt_> it would be a minimal install blueprint
[17:37] <kurt_> I hope to figure that out on my own with what knowledge I have
[17:37] <kentb> me too!
[17:37] <kurt_> and eventually I am going to create a guide with all of this info - but I'm out in the wild right now
[17:38] <kentb> join the club :)  I feel like I'm really close.
[17:38] <kurt_> keep checking in to this channel.  Since we are on the same track, we should share ideas
[17:39] <kentb> will do!
[17:39] <kentb> and I agree
[17:39] <kurt_> these guys do appreciate the bugs you find, so keep the info flowing
[17:39] <kentb> definitely!
[17:40] <jcastro> kurt_: you mean for openstack?
[17:40] <kurt_> yes sir
[17:40] <jcastro> yeah
[17:40] <kentb> yep
[17:40] <jcastro> adam_g: I'm supposed to talk to you about an openstack bundle actually
[17:40] <kentb> quantum-gateway is kicking my butt
[17:40] <kurt_> that is my numero uno goal right now
[17:41] <kurt_> to get a working openstack deployment on VMs with the minimum install
[17:41] <kurt_> but not the "virtual" method
[17:42] <kurt_> I would love to have a "scalable" blueprint working with maas, juju, juju-gui and openstack
[17:42] <marcoceppi> kurt_: There are a few deployer configs out there for that
[17:43] <kurt_> marcoceppi: yup, but I've not been successful yet in making one work
[17:43] <kurt_> I've gotten close, but no cigar
[17:43] <kentb> same here
[17:43] <jcastro> yeah, so arosales told me this morning that adam_g's been working on a working bundle
[17:43] <marcoceppi> kurt_: kentb thanks for sticking with it. We're working on making this a very strong story in the near future
[17:44] <kurt_> marcoceppi: I know you guys are.  I believe you feel this is an important and compelling user case and story
[17:44] <kurt_> that's why I've been working hard on this
[17:44] <kentb> marcoceppi: my pleasure. I'm learning a *ton*  I'm also working with a big OEM on a whitepaper on how to do this on their hardware.
[17:45] <kentb> and I drew the openstack straw :)
[17:47] <kurt_> marcoceppi: can you share those deployer configs you spoke of to see if there is anything I don't know about?
[17:48] <marcoceppi> adam_g:  where's be most recent version of the openstack deployers? they still in the deployer repo?
[17:48]  * marcoceppi knows you're working with jcastro on this as well
[17:48] <jcastro> I only found out today
[17:48] <jcastro> but I am keen on getting my hands on whatever he has, heh
[17:48]  * marcoceppi thinks we all are ;)
[17:48] <adam_g> marcoceppi, in lp:openstack-ubuntu-testing, juju-deployer   -c etc/deployer/deployments.cfg  -l
[17:49] <kurt_> are these similar to devstack type things?
[17:49] <adam_g> those are all sort of specific to our lab, using custom charm branches and some lab-specific config
[17:49] <adam_g> gimme a minute and ill put together a vanilla one for a simple deployment
[17:49] <kurt_> adam_g: nice one, thanks mate
[17:50] <kentb> woohoo
[17:50] <marcoceppi> kurt_: so juju-deployer, if you're not aware, is a means to standup complicated juju environments
[17:50] <jcastro> adam_g: hey so, I am thinking make a simple one, post it on the list, and ask for feedback
[17:50] <marcoceppi> it's just a yaml file that can be used with juju-deployer to deploy, configure, and relate services
[17:50] <adam_g> jcastro, yeah, i need to put up a wiki that documents this. i have a WI for it and hope to get to it soon.
[17:50] <kurt_> marcoceppi: I saw that information for the first time at the bottom of jamespage's manifesto
[17:52] <kurt_> marcoceppi: is the juju-deployer discussed at length anywhere?
[17:54] <jcastro> hazmat: maybe it's time to post on the list about deployer as well
[17:54] <kurt_> I would love to read about what it does and how it does it
[17:54] <adam_g> jcastro, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6093510/
[17:55] <adam_g> jcastro, this is a vanilla openstack + ceph. ceph node is single node (with no redundnacy), swift is single storage node as well
[17:55] <jcastro> is this that deployments.cfg or is this a new thing?
[17:56] <kurt_> adam_g: how many nodes is this?  is it single-node?
[17:56] <adam_g> kurt_, every service in its own machine
[17:56] <jcastro> ok so you could add-unit to this?
[17:57] <kurt_> how about the quantum-networking - is there a local.yaml or something it is referencing?
[17:58] <jcastro> 2013-09-11 13:57:55 Deployment name must be specified. available: openstack-services', 'precise-grizzly', 'raring-grizzly')
[17:58] <jcastro> which one do I use?
[17:58] <kurt_> I think both kentb and myself have managed to get pretty far, but have not been able to get a complete working set up because of the networking
[17:58] <kentb> yeah, that backfires almost every time...there's something screwy with keystone in the end product that I'm not sure what broke
[17:59] <jcastro> adam_g: where do you want the wiki page to be? I can start documenting this
[17:59] <kurt_> kentb: I don't think keystone is the problem
[17:59] <kurt_> at least in my set ups it wasn't
[18:00] <kurt_> it was the ability to assign an IP and spin up vm's from horizon
[18:00] <kentb> kurt_: really?  What were you hitting?  For me, I was always getting a 401 error if I tried to do anything with quantum.
[18:00] <kurt_> which was probably due to my networking being incorrect
[18:00] <adam_g> jcastro, im not sure. somewhere near the current openstack HA wiki page? dont have URL handy
[18:01] <jcastro> jujuclient.EnvError: <Env Error - Details:
[18:01] <jcastro>  {   u'Error': u'invalid entity name or password',
[18:01] <jcastro>     u'ErrorCode': u'unauthorized access',
[18:01] <adam_g> jcastro, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure
[18:01] <jcastro> I get this kind of stuff when I try to run deployer on that pastebin'ed bundle
[18:02] <jcastro> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure/JujuBundle for now
[18:04] <jcastro> adam_g: ok, so now, next step is what to do wrt. openstack-service, precise-grizzly, or raring-grizzly
[18:05] <jcastro> I have an environment up and running
[18:06] <jcastro> juju-deployer -c openstack.cfg  -elocal precise-grizzly
[18:06] <jcastro> this seems right? Looks like it's working
[18:06] <kurt_> jcastro: are you able to access horizon and spin up VMs?
[18:06] <jcastro> it's firing up right now
[18:06] <jcastro> gimme like 5 minutes
[18:06] <kurt_> kk
[18:07] <jcastro> juju-deployer -v -c openstack.cfg  -elocal precise-grizzly
[18:07] <adam_g> jcastro, good luck using local provider :)
[18:08] <jcastro> adam_g: I just wanted to get the syntax for the command down, etc.
[18:08] <adam_g> ah, right
[18:08] <adam_g> jcastro, openstack-services is the base deployment, precise-grizzly just inherits and sets series and the config to install grizzly
[18:11] <jcastro> adam_g: can you add some info here? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure/JujuBundle
[18:11] <adam_g> jcastro,  on a call atm. i will, cant promise its going to happen this week tho
[18:11] <jcastro> k
[18:11] <jcastro> do you think this will fire up on like hpcloud or something?
[18:12] <jcastro> I'd like to see it work at least once!
[18:12] <adam_g> not sure
[18:13] <jcastro> but it works on MAAS?
[18:13] <kurt_> adam_g: if you could include some info around how the networking is handled (i.e. IP/CIDRs, interfaces, public ranges, etc) , I would be grateful
[18:17] <kurt_> jcastro: did VM spin up?
[18:17] <jcastro> a bunch of containers spun up
[18:17] <jcastro> fails on swift-storage-z1
[18:18] <kurt_> anything interesting in debug-log that's an easy fix?
[18:19] <jcastro> http://imgur.com/Bh114KN
[18:19] <jcastro> this is the 2nd time I'm trying it, I'll check debug log
[18:19] <jcastro> failing on the install hook
[18:21] <kurt_> it looks like most of them are stuck deploying
[18:21] <jcastro> yeah, a bunch of them are turning green now
[18:21] <kurt_> nice
[18:22] <kurt_> can you pastebin your install hook error for swift?
[18:22] <jcastro> ok so deployer showed an error
[18:23] <jcastro> but the unit came up just fine
[18:23] <jcastro> and I think I found a bug in nova-compute though
[18:23] <jcastro> adam_g: on the nova-compute charm: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6093626/
[18:24] <jcastro> should I report that as a bug?
[18:24] <kentb> ah! that might be what's killing me too...my nova-compute instance was DOA and libvirt was all messed up as one of the symptoms
[18:24] <adam_g> jcastro, full log?  i believe thats one of the many issues you'll hit doing this in containers
[18:26] <jcastro> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6093637/
[18:35] <kurt_> adam_g: wasn't log filling issue fixed in 1.13?
[18:35] <kurt_> (juju 1.13)
[18:35] <kentb> kurt_: yep...hasn't come back for me since updating
[18:36] <kentb> bug killed my bootstrap node within a few hours
[18:36] <kurt_> yes, mine too in 1.12
[20:06] <kentb> ok. so if an instance is stuck in 'dying' state is there a good way to nuke it?  I can't terminate the machine b/c we're indefinitely stuck there. Please tell me I don't have to destroy-environment and start over (using juju-core 1.13.3-1-1737).
[20:06] <kentb> the agent-state is 'error' with a hook-failure during config-changed
[20:13] <kentb> nm I ran juju resolved ceph and then that allowed me to kill it
[20:25] <thumper> jcastro: ping
[20:26] <jcastro> yo!
[20:26] <thumper> jcastro: got a few minutes for a hangout?
[20:27] <jcastro> yeah let me finish something
[20:27] <jcastro> ~10 min?
[20:27] <thumper> sure
[20:44] <kurt_> kentb: juju resolved <service>
[20:45] <kurt_> kentb:  juju resolved <service>
[20:45] <kurt_> I just went over this with marcoceppi yesterday
[20:46] <marcoceppi> kurt_: yes, we need to update the documentation for this
[20:46] <kurt_> Can anyone tell me if there is default username/password for console only access for nodes?  I don't have ssh access
[20:47] <marcoceppi> kurt_: everything is done via ssh
[20:47] <kurt_> I'm hosed them
[20:47] <marcoceppi> kurt_: you can try ubuntu with the password ubuntu
[20:47] <kurt_> then
[20:47] <kurt_> that doesn't work
[20:47] <marcoceppi> then I don't think so
[20:48] <marcoceppi> We try to avoid default passwords and users, because that's a vulnerability
[20:48] <kurt_> macroceppi: if I am trying to add an interface after the fact to node?  I keep messing up my routing when I do it
[20:48] <kurt_> sorry, that wasn't clear
[20:48] <kurt_> is there an easy way to add an interface to a node once it's been deployed?
[20:49] <kurt_> I appear to keep screwing up my routing
[20:49] <kurt_> this is on maas btw
[20:49] <kurt_> not that that matters
[20:52] <kentb> kurt_: yep, that unclogged it. thanks!
[20:53] <kurt_> kentb: good stuff
[20:55] <jcastro> hey thumper
[20:56] <marcoceppi> kurt_: no, you can't add interfaces after the fact unless you use upgrade-charm
[20:56] <kurt_> upgrade-charm?
[20:57] <marcoceppi> kurt_: yes. So if you're developing a charm locally, and you deploy using --repository and local:, and you later ADD a relation/interface to the metadata.yaml, you can run `juju upgrade-charm --repository ... <service>` to upgrade the charm and register the new relation/interface
[20:58] <marcoceppi> kurt_: chaning interfaces/relations or removing them can be quite dangerous if you don't first remove all relations
[20:59]  * marcoceppi is working on the upgrade-charm docs atm
[20:59] <kurt_> so, do I have to entertain the idea of completely statically assigning my maas installation to make openstack work as in jamepage's doc?
[21:02] <kurt_> I am sure I could avoid using the vip parameter, but does that only apply to HA situations?  Or is it a real virtual IP that can be assigned on top of juju's administrative IP?
[21:11] <kurt_> Looks like this is going to be a problem too:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1188126
[21:11] <_mup_> Bug #1188126: Juju unable to interact consistently with an openstack deployment where tenant has multiple networks configured <canonistack> <openstack> <serverstack> <juju:New> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188126>
[23:34] <freeflying> how many constraints from juju python has been implemented in juju-core?


[05:20] <mapps> hi all
[07:55] <Myrtti> mornin
[08:02] <zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
[08:02] <dutchie> morning zmoylan-pi
[08:52] <foobarry> morning
[09:28] <foobarry> waiting for the first person to broach the subject of central heating
[09:28] <foobarry> in our house
[09:29]  * zmoylan-pi put winter duvet on bed last night, what is this central heating you speak of?
[09:29] <foobarry> my facebook feed suggests it's been women so far
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> 15 tog duvet.  snoozy warm duvet
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> only missing a cat to purr at end of it
[09:33] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[11:45] <hazrpg> hey guys, I want to know why all the tutorials online seem to encourage using a PPA to install MATE (Desktop Environment) when  it is in the standard repo, is there any issues using the standard repo version of MATE? I'm using the normal ubuntu 14.04.1  (amd64)
[11:46] <penguin42> hazrpg: It's only just landed in the main repo
[11:47] <hazrpg> penguin42: Ah! That would make sense, so presumably it is safe to use for everyday use?
[11:47] <penguin42> hazrpg: I've not tried the ones in the main repo, my dad has been using the ones from the PPA for a few years
[11:50] <hazrpg> penguin42: Cool. Do you know if it disrupts packages that Unity uses? E.g. nautilus, etc.
[11:51] <penguin42> hazrpg: No, but it gets a little confusing - they have different names for the mate equivalents, and you sometimes find yourself running the wrong one - you often have both on the menus
[11:52] <penguin42> hazrpg: So for example the equivalent of nautilus is caja; the different names are there to let both live side by side
[11:58] <hazrpg> penguin42: that makes sense
[11:59] <hazrpg> penguin42: do you get the same problem with say network manager too?
[11:59] <hazrpg> penguin42: and do you end up with two of everything in the indicator bar?
[11:59] <penguin42> hazrpg: I'm not sure, the stuff at the back of network manager is shared, it's just the GUI that would be different
[11:59] <penguin42> hazrpg: My dad just uses mate so he doesn't hit the problem
[12:00] <hazrpg> penguin42: hmm, might try it out
[12:01]  * brobostigon just uses straight gnome3, so has none of these issues.
[12:01] <hazrpg> penguin42: It's not that I hate Unity, I mean I've been using it for a long while now (since Natty?), I just hate how much of a hog it is.
[12:01] <hazrpg> brobostigon: heyo o/
[12:01] <brobostigon> afternoodlings hazrpg
[12:02] <hazrpg> brobostigon: I considered using gnome3 - but I think the top bar on each window seems too large (although I do really like the use of that space for extra cool buttons - something I thought Ubuntu was going to add when they changed the button placement)
[12:03] <brobostigon> hazrpg: i dont see why you couldnt create your own interface theme, and change that.?
[12:04] <hazrpg> brobostigon: Oh, so the size isn't fixed? :)
[12:04] <brobostigon> hazrpg: i am not sure, but i do know, different interface themes can be applied, to change those elements.
[12:07] <hazrpg> brobostigon: cool, might look into that
[12:10] <brobostigon> cool,
[14:39] <safiyyah> ali1234, are you about?
[14:48] <safiyyah> having trouble with evolution colours, anyone have experience with it ? Here are the images
 http://postimg.org/image/jkgss9l0f/   and
 http://postimg.org/image/9bobmfwyn/
[14:52] <ali1234> that bug again?
[14:52] <ali1234> i thought we fixed that
[14:52] <ali1234> did you install all updates?
[14:57] <ali1234> safiyyah: are you using only ubuntu packages and is everything up to date?
[15:20] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: seems like fun - is it ok if I ask you a question and then also disappear ;)
[16:03] <ali1234> very funny
[16:07] <penguin42> ?
[16:08] <ali1234> he asked me a question and then left
[16:09]  * brobostigon is trying activity tracking on his pebble with newer fw again, hoping it wont send it into a recovery loop again.
[16:22] <foobarry> Mate DE: desktops for dads
[16:25] <ali1234> my dad uses unity
[16:25] <penguin42> foobarry: Well, it works well on lower end/older machines and it works exactly like Gnome 2 which he knows how to use
[16:25] <ali1234> but he's more of a grandpa
[16:25] <ali1234> the dash is great for people with absolutely no long term memory
[16:34] <foobarry> probably a catchier slogan that "born before 1979? you might like MATE"
[16:35] <foobarry> "remember Live Aid? you might prefer old school desktop"
[16:36] <penguin42> foobarry: Hey youngster....
[16:47] <ali1234> lol foobarry
[16:47] <ali1234> dads were born in the 80s now
[16:47] <ali1234> you are getting old
[16:48] <popey> also, sexist
[16:48] <popey> ☻
[16:49] <foobarry> i don't know what mums use
[16:49] <popey> mumbuntu of course
[16:49] <foobarry> my wife is a mum and uses unity
[16:50]  * penguin42 gave his mum unity
[16:51] <penguin42> she doesn't use much - just knows to click the icons down the side
[16:53] <ali1234> my mum doesn't like unity
[16:53] <ali1234> no menus
[16:55] <penguin42> it's her first OS so she doesn't know what to expect
[16:56] <ali1234> yeah i've noticed that people tend to like unity if they have never used anything else
[16:57] <penguin42> and yes I think the hidden menus do confuse
[17:14] <DJones> foobarry: Bon in the 60's, not a dad, so Unity will do for me :)
[17:14] <DJones> s/bon/born/
[17:41] <nucc1> are the menus still in the top bar?
[17:41] <nucc1> I always found them to be too far away from where I want them to be
[19:21] <brobostigon> new dr who, :)
[19:27] <DJones> Has Capaldi been replaced already?
[19:28] <webpigeon> ?!
[19:29] <webpigeon> oh, it's saturday!
[20:20] <shauno> did someone forget to write that episode?
[20:32] <halt> HI All, planing to build my drem setup at home, and I realized that I'm not sure about the software implementations, what I try to do, is to have an low footprint desktop machine, which I still cloud for avarage browsing ant etc, but I what to back it up, with a bit more power in case I start to to power intersive stuff, like 3D drawing, or calculation, etc, how can I move task between the two setup ? ( the motivation is to be green and to not use to much
[20:32] <halt> power if it's not needed, but if i what to then bust it up )
[20:33] <halt> The small propably will be an small Intel NUC and the big guy an Aleutia M200
[20:34] <mapps> gotta stop this drinking and smoking
[20:34] <mapps> its crimina how cheap it is here
[20:34] <ali1234> if you want to be green just buy an i5 and ssd
[20:34] <mapps> i cant help myself:D
[20:35] <this> hi
[20:39] <halt> ali1234: the NUC is the one probably just i3 not i3 because of the 2 HDMI port but that's the smaller, I need an additional extra calculation power sometimes, and I'm not sure what's the best way to combine the power of two box, in general, since the MPI like solutions are quite limited, and I what to be able to push more general applications over  to the bigger machine
[20:40] <ali1234> there's really no point in doing that at all
[20:41] <ali1234> CPUs sleep to save power
[20:41] <ali1234> if you buy two computers instead of one, you are just wasting the energy used to manufacture them
[20:41] <ali1234> and then dispose of them when they are obsolete
[20:42] <ali1234> anyway if you insist on doing this, the answer is it depends what software you want to run
[20:44] <halt> "CPUs sleep to save power" what do you mean by that ?
[20:44] <halt> and how would you handle the need of more then an 4 cores i5 ? sometimes i need 16 cores xeon  currently I keep making snapshot of the desktop system to the nas, then turn on the server, and start the snapshot of the vm there
[20:46]  * penguin42 doesn't think that's such an odd approach
[20:47] <ali1234> if you really need 16+ cores then okay
[20:47] <ali1234> you need software written specially to work across multiple nodes
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> like.. the kernel's IP stack?
[20:53] <ali1234> no, like a blender renderfarm
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> or that
[20:53] <penguin42> or distcc
[20:54] <halt> I'm aware that to run on multi nodes is difficult and require special apps, that's why I was thinking to move the app across to the other more powerfull box in general, and with netwokr shave mount the current data, and also tunnel the x across with ssh
[20:55] <halt> I'm reading about the criu project now that's also looks promising
[20:56] <penguin42> oh yeh that's quite wacky, I keep meaning to look at it
[21:08] <halt> wow this crui is maybe the solution http://criu.org/Live_migration   it could move across a whole process tree, I still have to resolve the data consistency but that's easy with DRBD


[08:39] <sil2100> @pilot out
[08:40] <sil2100> Forgot to do that yesterday ^
[11:14] <seb128> @pilot in
[14:01] <ogayot> jbicha: hi! I'm doing some archeology as part of the dbus 1.14.8-2 merge. Specifically, I'm looking at two pieces of our current delta: 1. the removal of d/.gitignore   2. the replacement of debian/master by ubuntu/bionic in d/gbp.conf. The changes seem to have been introduced by https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/commit/?id=6c6734001053229f693f369204d09fc525107b4d . I know it was
[14:01] <ogayot> 8 years ago, but do you have any opinion on reverting those changes ? the gbp branch spec hasn't been updated since bionic so it feels hardly helpful nowadays. Thanks!
[14:01] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Commit 6c67340 in ubuntu/+source/dbus "1.12.2-1ubuntu1 (patches unapplied) import/1.12.2-1ubuntu1 ubuntu/bionic-proposed ubuntu/bionic"
[15:12] <sergiodj> tjaalton: hi, can I call your attention to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1041438 ?  TIA
[15:12] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Debian bug 1041438 in src:sssd "gdm3 dep8 failure & reenabling files provider" [Important, Open]
[17:49] <jbicha> ogayot: .gitignore files sometimes go missing depending on how the package is built or handled, but yes you can easily drop those changes
[18:05] <ogayot> jbicha: thanks!
[23:06] <vpa1977> Hi, looking for review and sponsorship for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fdroidserver/+bug/2028117 - this issue is blocking pillow migration. Thank you !!!!
[23:06] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2028117 in pillow (Ubuntu) "Autopkgtests fail when fdroidserver runs against pillow 10.0.0-1" [Undecided, New]


[00:19]  * pleia2 gets to publishing
[00:33] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 380 for the week August 18 - 24, 2014 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue380


 I am well thank you.
[09:05] <gremble> Just taking a breather. First week of the semester has been rough haha and the weekend doesn't offer much salvation
[09:06] <Kilos> ouch
[09:07] <gremble> Don't think hardwork ever killed anyone though, so it should be fine. :P
[09:07] <Kilos> hahaha
[09:08] <gremble> Have you considered getting a UPS to buffer against the power cuts? Or are they prohibitively expensive?
[09:11] <Kilos> yip  cost is the prob. i have one but battery died, and they not cheap either
[09:11] <Kilos> saving for trip to aus is priority atm
[09:12] <Kilos> i should just leave the 2 desktops turned off
[09:12] <Kilos> lappy at least gives me 2 mins to shutdown
[09:16] <gremble> Thats good though
[09:17] <Kilos> yeah its enough time to shutdown if im here when the power cuts
[09:17] <Kilos> hehe
[09:17] <Kilos> will get a new lappy battery in aus
[09:18] <Kilos> they $45 aud there and R1450  here
[09:18] <Kilos> so like 1/3 of our costs
[09:19] <gremble> That is quite a large difference in cost O.o
[09:19] <Kilos> yeah
[09:19] <Kilos> things expensive here
[09:19] <gremble> Very
[09:19] <gremble> Books... Books are so expensive. Luckily I've found a few nice second hand bookstores
[09:20] <Kilos> yeah books are crazy prices
[09:42] <Langjan> Hi Kilos, Sharks were lucky to get the nil!
[09:44] <Kilos> eish
[09:44] <Kilos> very shocking display
[10:05] <Langjan> News from Melbourne?
[10:06] <Kilos> eish , she was feeling to bad to go yesterday so got another appointment in 2 weeks time
[10:07] <Langjan> Ai!
[10:07] <Langjan> And Sharks need to learn that, in rugby, you need the ball to score points
[10:07] <Kilos> yes
[10:07] <Kilos> and when you have it dont kick it away
[10:08] <Langjan> So if you dont want points you just kick it away
[10:08] <Kilos> oh , maybe that was their plan
[10:09] <Langjan> What beats me is that they have the ball in the opponents 25 AND they have a penalty in their favour playing advantage, they still kick it away!
[10:09] <Kilos> yes, i dont understand the tactic at all
[10:10] <Langjan> Yes good plan, now they have a new record to their name, only team ever to not score a single point in a super Rugby playoffn
[10:10] <Langjan> Its not tactic its pathetic
[10:11] <Langjan> They dont even know the rules
[10:12] <Langjan> last week their flyhalf kicked into touch after a penalty as if that would end the game
[10:12] <Kilos> maybe they are trying to be dropped out of the supers
[10:12] <Langjan> He was perplexed at why they had to play a lineout
[10:12] <Kilos> yeah i saw that
[10:12] <Langjan> dropped out of rugby
[10:12] <Kilos> shocking
[10:13] <Langjan> If your'e a coach and the rules change, dont you tell the players?
[10:13] <Kilos> depends how much pay you get'
[10:14] <Langjan> Im becoming a Lions supporter
[10:14] <Kilos> haha tara and debs already have
[10:14] <Kilos> (10:40:39 AM) baby: LIONS WOOOOO
[10:14] <Langjan> Hope they thrash the 'Saders but they botched their chances of a home final in Argentina
[10:15] <Langjan> (10:40:39 AM) baby: LIONS WOOOOO?
[10:15] <Kilos> that was tara this morning
[10:16] <Langjan> Ok ok
[10:16] <Kilos> we call her baby
[10:16] <Langjan> Cute! Well enjoy the day and hopefully the next game will be better
[10:17] <Kilos> ty sir and all the lekker goed daar by julle ook
[10:17] <Langjan> Your will still holding out?
[10:17] <Kilos> battling , have had a couple when things get tough
[10:17] <Kilos> but im stopping
[10:18] <Kilos> dont you nag as well
[10:18] <Langjan> when?
[10:18] <Kilos> 2 yesterday and 1 today
[10:18] <Langjan> Hows the headache?
[10:19] <Kilos> was bad this morning but ok now
[10:19] <ra1v3n> Hello
[10:19] <Langjan> OK but now you've ruined the friendship
[10:19] <Langjan> cheers Kilos chat later again
[10:19] <gremble> Hey ra1v3n
[10:20] <ra1v3n> Hello gremble
[10:20] <Kilos> hi ra1v3n
[10:20] <ra1v3n> mind if I hang here?
[10:20] <ra1v3n> hello Kilos
[10:20] <Kilos> you are welcome
[10:20] <ra1v3n> ^^ thanx
[10:21] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[10:21] <gremble> its what i do
[10:21] <gremble> im just nursing a pulled bicep xD
[10:21] <Kilos> ouch
[10:23] <ra1v3n> aw shame gremble
[10:31] <ra1v3n> So I shall be upgrading to LUbuntu 16.04 soon
[10:31] <ra1v3n> any thoughts?
[10:31] <ra1v3n> or hints?
[10:38] <Kilos> are you in a hurry ra1v3n
[10:39] <ra1v3n> not really
[10:39] <ra1v3n> ^^
[10:40] <Kilos> then wait a bit longer i think
[10:40] <ra1v3n> for all the updates to hit?
[10:41] <Kilos> i havent been watching them lately
[10:41] <Kilos> let me see what i can find out
[10:41] <ra1v3n> ok
[10:43] <Kilos> ra1v3n where are you?
[10:43] <ra1v3n> ZA
[10:43] <Kilos> yes where
[10:43] <Kilos> im in pta
[10:43] <ra1v3n> my skin?
[10:43] <Kilos> the guys here are all over za
[10:44] <ra1v3n> lol Durbs
[10:44] <Kilos> what city? hehe
[10:44] <Kilos> aw you lucky
[10:44] <ra1v3n> nah
[10:44] <ra1v3n> <--------- vampire
[10:44] <ra1v3n> durbs is the worst
[10:44] <Kilos> yes today i spose it has gone backwards
[10:45] <ra1v3n> too Sunny
[10:45] <Kilos> i love the sun
[10:45] <ra1v3n> -_-
[10:45] <Kilos> was a beach life saver in toti
[10:45] <ra1v3n> Im super pale.... sun just eats me
[10:45] <Kilos> ouch
[10:46] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[10:46] <Kilos> or wb
[10:49] <Kilos> ra1v3n im just checking with the lubuntu guys i think its them
[10:49] <Kilos> waiting for a reply
[10:50] <ra1v3n> kewl thanx man
[10:50] <Kilos> np
[10:50] <Kilos> i get mixed up with channels at times
[10:52] <jerit> got ubuntu server 14.04.4 installed on a VM in VMWare... now this blob:http%3A//imgur.com/71bcc52d-33ad-4891-b79c-580cbd8105d4
[10:52] <jerit> fuck wth is that?
[10:52] <jerit> http://i.imgur.com/6zvIvDJ.png
[10:54] <Kilos> jerit what are you doing
[10:54] <Kilos> or WAYTTD
[10:54] <jerit> trying to run my Ubuntu server 14.04.4 VM
[10:55] <Kilos> ssh into it
[10:55] <jerit> I can't get it to start even
[10:55] <Kilos> oh my
[10:56] <Kilos> is that a vm in windows
[10:56] <Kilos> you should have text login prompt only
[10:57] <jerit> yes but when I try to start the VM in VMWare, that error comes up
[10:57] <jerit> I don't even get the chance to log in
[10:58] <Kilos> well hang on, i dont know if anyone here puts ubuntu in a windows vm
[10:58] <Kilos> ra1v3n check private message tab
[10:59] <jerit> I'd dual boot but thats a chore in and of itself
[10:59] <Kilos> no man its not that difficult
[11:00] <MaNI> message means pretty much what it says
[11:00] <jerit> well I have 3 hard drives in here and all have data on them so I'm not sure if I want to format any to install the linux OS
[11:00] <MaNI> you need to reboot your machine - go into the bios - and turn vt support on
[11:01] <MaNI> what cpu do you  have?
[11:01] <superfly> good evening Kilos
[11:01] <Kilos> hi there superfly
[11:03] <jerit> MaNI, got an i5 3570K
[11:03] <MaNI> see e.g. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/13/html/Virtualization_Guide/sect-Virtualization-Troubleshooting-Enabling_Intel_VT_and_AMD_V_virtualization_hardware_extensions_in_BIOS.html for step by step instructions
[11:07] <superfly> MaNI is right, just go into your BIOS and you'll see an option to enable virtualisation extensions
[11:07] <superfly> it's usually fairly easy to find, and it's just one of those "on/off" switches
[11:10] <Kilos> superfly is your mac still a mac?
[11:10] <superfly> Kilos: you mean, is it running Mac OS? yes, it is. we use it for OpenLP's mac build
[11:11] <Kilos> spose so for everytime you upgrade your project
[11:11] <Kilos> ah guessed as much
[11:18] <jerit> vt-s is enabled in the bios and is supported by my processor
[11:20] <jerit> okay its running
[11:20] <Kilos> yay
[11:30] <jerit> what type of system installation do I want? Normal or live O_o
[11:34] <jerit> okay I went with normal
[11:35] <jerit> now I have to select a kernel... why it doesn't just be like "this is what you'll use and you'll like it"
[11:39] <jerit> sheehs by the time you've got installation completed you've forgotten your login details
[11:40] <Kilos> lol
[11:42] <jerit> I am iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
[11:42]  * jerit flexes not-existant brain muscles
[11:42] <Kilos> haha
[11:43] <jerit> lol I can't sudo
[11:43] <jerit> dunno what the password is
[11:43] <jerit> [sudo] password for logan:
[11:43] <jerit> logan is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported
[11:43] <jerit> okay but how do I sudooooo
[11:51] <Kilos> ra1v3n
[11:51] <Kilos> some work for you
[11:52] <ra1v3n> hi
[11:52] <ra1v3n> yes?
[11:52] <Kilos> if you like you can join us on launchpad and our mailing list
[11:53] <Kilos> go to https://ubuntu-za.org
[11:53] <Kilos> and tick get involved
[11:53] <Kilos> then you become an official za member
[11:53] <Kilos> find the mailing list and launchpad goodies
[11:54] <ra1v3n> do I have to use the email I registered here with?
[11:55] <Kilos> you use the mail you prefer
[11:55] <Kilos> most of us use a gmail address
[11:55] <ra1v3n> kewl
[11:57] <jerit> apt-get is installing from disc, not from web O_o
[11:57] <jerit> thats a first for me
[11:59] <jerit> this is preventing me from installing a lamp stack here
[11:59] <Kilos> jerit you can use apt only nowadays
[12:00] <jerit> still asking me to put in the disc, buuut I don't know if its looking for a disc in my physical rom drive or if its looking for the iso in the virtual one
[12:01] <Kilos> most likely need to activate the other repos
[12:01] <Kilos> i dunno how to do that from cli
[12:01] <Kilos> and unntick the cdrom as a repo
[12:11] <jerit> well, this seems helpful
[12:11] <jerit> http://askubuntu.com/questions/386265/media-change-please-insert-the-disc-labeled-when-trying-to-install-ruby-on-ra
[12:11] <jerit> except sude sed -i '/cdrom/d' /etc/apt/sources.list errors
[12:12] <jerit> oh thats because whenever I do a ' I have to press space twice
[12:12] <jerit> so now I've removed cdrom from sources but now I have no sources at all
[12:16] <Kilos> google adding repos from cli
[12:17] <jerit> add-apt-repository is an unknown command
[12:18] <jerit> err... command not found rather
[12:18] <Kilos> hmm...
[12:20] <superfly> jerit: which version of ubuntu?
[12:20] <jerit> server 14.04.4
[12:20] <superfly> what is the code name? trusty?
[12:22] <superfly> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty main restricted universe multiverse
[12:22] <superfly> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty-updates main restricted universe multiverse
[12:22] <superfly> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty-security main restricted universe multiverse
[12:23] <jerit> superfly, I have no idea @ code name
[12:23] <jerit> my sources.list is empty and read only so I can't edit it
[12:24] <Kilos> trusty yes
[12:24] <superfly> sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:25] <jerit> no nano
[12:25] <jerit> got vi though
[12:25] <superfly> vi is a little difficult at first, it's not a normal text editor
[12:26] <superfly> I love it, it's amazingly powerful once you know it
[12:26] <superfly> jerit: you can use vi
[12:26] <superfly> just press "i" to get into insert mode, and <esc> to get out of insert mode so that you can save and exit
[12:27] <jerit> ah that's what I was looking for
[12:27] <superfly> jerit: also, don't use your arrow keys. vi uses h j k l for movement
[12:27] <superfly> but you can only move in command mode (press esc to get to command mode)
[12:28] <superfly> (I use vim for all my development)
[12:29] <superfly> in command mode, type : to start a command
[12:29] <ra1v3n> watching an experienced vi/vim/neovim user is akin to watching a squirrel on tik
[12:29] <superfly> so saving is :w
[12:29] <superfly> and quitting is :q
[12:29] <superfly> (w => write)
[12:32] <jerit> fuck me running, vi is shit to use
[12:33] <ra1v3n> lol
[12:33] <superfly> jerit: it's amazing, but you have to use it the way it was meant to be used, not the way you think it should
[12:33] <Kilos> jerit we dont swear here
[12:33] <jerit> superfly I added the sources like you said but unable to locate package nano
[12:33] <Kilos> we have ladies here at times
[12:33] <jerit> do we have any ladies here now?
[12:33] <ra1v3n> <------ thinks vi is amazing
[12:33] <superfly> jerit: then you need to "sudo apt update" once you're out of vi
[12:33]  * superfly agrees with ra1v3n
[12:33] <ra1v3n> Im a novice tho
[12:34] <Kilos> the pro is only a novice at fixing cars
[12:34] <jerit> ra1v3n are you a masochist? :P
[12:34] <ra1v3n> whatched someone use it on a windows box recently and was in awe of the speed at which he geneated text
[12:35] <jerit> apparently its abnormal that I can log in as root and edit this file
[12:35] <superfly> ra1v3n: plugins are extremely useful too
[12:35] <ra1v3n> generated*
[12:35] <jerit> oh, would be if I couldn't*
[12:35] <superfly> jerit: yes, you don't want to be root, you want to only use sudo
[12:35] <ra1v3n> only ever sudo
[12:36] <ra1v3n> NEVER sudo su
[12:37] <jerit> nano installed
[12:37]  * jerit wipes sweat off brow
[12:37] <ra1v3n> for sudo su is both sacred and profane! We shall not avail ourselves thereof....
[12:37] <superfly> ra1v3n: you can also sudo -i ;-)
[12:37] <Kilos> lol
[12:42] <jerit> well my apache works :P
[12:43] <Kilos> ra1v3n have you joined us yet?
[12:44] <Kilos> i can learn lots from you as well
[12:44] <ra1v3n> yes I signed up to the mailing list
[12:44] <Kilos> and if you stay here it isnt a problem when i forget
[12:45] <ra1v3n> lol
[12:45] <Kilos> and launchpad?
[12:45] <ra1v3n> no Im staying
[12:45] <Kilos> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-za
[12:46] <Kilos> join there then you are counted as a ubuntu-za team member
[12:51] <superfly> ra1v3n: vimawesome.com
[12:51] <superfly> http://www.viemu.com/a-why-vi-vim.html
[12:52] <superfly> jerit, ra1v3n: ^^
[12:53] <ra1v3n> ok all signed up!
[12:53] <ra1v3n> ^^
[12:53] <Kilos> good lad
[12:53] <jerit> oh hey I just realized, I can set up my client's pos system here on this vm and mess with it that way
[12:53] <jerit> if I can set it up so that it works on the api I developed, then I can write the manual myself and fire my contractor lol
[12:57] <ra1v3n> haha
[13:02] <jerit> I need to install ftp though. Is this generally included in a lamp stack?
[13:37] <jerit> okay so apache, mysql and php installed (though I haven't actually managed to test mysql yet)
[13:44] <Kilos> jerit did you thanks superfly for his help
[13:45] <jerit> actually I didn't :( sorry superfly
[13:45] <jerit> thanks for the help :) really got me going that did
[13:46] <Kilos> our fly is a star at everything so we have to keep him happy to help
[13:59] <jerit> I have openssh server installed but I can't use winscp to access the system
[13:59] <jerit> need to copy my website files over and configure apache to serve it correctly I guess
[13:59] <jerit> thinking that http://server_ip/website/ isn't going to be ideal
[14:11] <jerit> [16:08] <ChainsawBaby> I see a vim user, I see an insane person
[14:11] <jerit> couldn't have said it better myself ;P
[14:21] <ra1v3n> yes! But all the best people are!
[14:23] <Kilos> ra1v3n i dont see you in lp
[14:23] <Kilos> jerit have you done the lp bit yet
[14:23] <Kilos> ?
[14:24] <Kilos> yes i nag till i get my way
[14:24] <jerit> Kilos the lp bit?
[14:24] <Kilos> easier just to give in
[14:25] <jerit> I dunno what that is
[14:25] <ra1v3n> I logged out
[14:25] <Kilos> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-za
[14:25] <Kilos> no man ra1v3n you supposed to tick join this team, not just look and go
[14:26] <ra1v3n> I did join the team
[14:26] <Kilos> wow
[14:26] <ra1v3n> Im in
[14:26] <Kilos> i dont see you there waiting for approval
[14:26] <ra1v3n> shadowraven
[14:27] <Kilos> lemme look
[14:28] <ra1v3n> there
[14:28] <Kilos> i still dont see you
[14:28] <Kilos> ha gotcha
[14:29] <Kilos> now jerit your turn
[14:29] <Kilos> ra1v3n welcome to the za team
[14:31] <ra1v3n> Awesome! thanx
[14:31] <Kilos> now you get to nag new peeps so i can rest
[14:32] <ra1v3n> lol
[14:34] <Kilos> superfly is our resident python and most other languages expert, only he doesnt like php
[14:35] <ra1v3n> <---------- knows nothing of programming
[14:36] <Kilos> me neither but with fly around we win all battles
[14:37] <Kilos> we have many clever peeps in this team
[14:37] <ra1v3n> Ive only been using Linux for a few years (2?) got fed up with win 7 and mb bs and dll hell...
[14:37] <Kilos> haha
[14:37] <ra1v3n> ^^
[14:52] <jerit> Kilos what dis?
[14:52] <Kilos> huh
[14:53] <jerit> launchpad
[14:53] <jerit> ubuntu one
[14:53] <Kilos> cant you get there?
[14:54] <Kilos> launchpad is where ubuntu peeps register
[14:55] <Kilos> ra1v3n did you have probs
[14:55] <Kilos> hehe you can help jerit
[14:55] <ra1v3n> nope
[14:55] <ra1v3n> was rather easy
[14:55] <Kilos> im a greeter bot i dont do clever stuff
[14:55] <ra1v3n> Im just spinning too many plates today
[14:55] <Kilos> haha
[14:56] <ra1v3n> thats whyI may have missed the second join team link
[14:56] <Kilos> aha
[14:56] <Kilos> multitasking is a painful thing to do
[14:56] <ra1v3n> but its all sorted now
[14:57] <Kilos> jerit what are you battling with
[14:57] <ra1v3n> I do it rather well most of the time
[14:57] <jerit> Kilos I registered
[14:57] <Kilos> i can only do one thing at a time
[14:59] <Kilos> hmm... another one taking long to show
[15:00] <ra1v3n> Jerit go to the lp ubuntu-za page and click on the join team
[15:00] <jerit> I did and I registered and verified my email address already and everything
[15:00] <Kilos> wow
[15:00] <ra1v3n> ubuntu one >> join team >> ubuntu-za >> join team
[15:00] <ra1v3n> or rather
[15:01] <ra1v3n> ubuntu one >> join team >> register >> verify >> ubuntu-za >> join team >> wait for approval
[15:02] <ra1v3n> link is on the upper far right of the page
[15:14] <superfly> Yeah, Launchpad's design is still rather 2000
[15:23] <Kilos> whew its quite a mission nowadays hey
[15:31] <Kilos> jerit ubuntu one >> join team >> register >> verify >> ubuntu-za >> join team >> wait for approval
[15:31] <Kilos> you gotta go back again
[15:31] <Kilos> hehe
[15:39] <jerit> mhmm ra1v3n did that
[15:39] <Kilos> ai!
[15:39] <Kilos> still dont show
[15:40] <jerit> look again
[15:40] <jerit> I think I missed a thing
[15:40] <Kilos> there you go
[15:41] <Kilos> welcome to the za team
[15:59] <jerit> coolness :)
[15:59] <jerit> now, I just need to figure out how to make phpmyadmin work since I've installed it, then I can set up a database for my website
[16:15] <jerit> can't seem to get phpmyadmin working
[16:15] <jerit> did this https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-secure-phpmyadmin-on-ubuntu-14-04
[16:16] <jerit> but I get 404 when I browse to http://server_ip/phpmyadmin
[16:23] <Kilos> i go eat
[16:58] <jerit> after all this work to get the server installed, the lamp stack set up and configured with peripheral systems like phpmyadmin to help you manage the databases you kinda get a sense of "damn I'd hate if this were to go away"
[16:59] <pavlushka> lol
[16:59] <Kilos> i would have installed it on another pc
[16:59] <Kilos> not inna vm
[16:59] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[17:00] <superfly> jerit: have you ever installed the MS stack?
[17:00] <Kilos> now you trusting windows to keep it working
[17:00] <ra1v3n> lol
[17:00] <jerit> superfly as I don't know what that is, nope
[17:00] <jerit> Kilos this is just so that I can learn how to work with linux mostly
[17:00] <superfly> jerit: the Microsoft stack... MS SQL Server, etc.
[17:00] <ra1v3n> await the impending cheese error or BSoD
[17:00] <superfly> jerit: it's far more of a pain
[17:01] <jerit> superfly oh right... yeah it took roughly the same amount of time I guess
[17:01] <superfly> jerit: did you install Apache, MySQL and PHP first? I presume you did, though.
[17:01]  * pavlushka is afraid of water, dont know how to swim but love to be a sailor, ahoy
[17:02] <SEptic> rofl
[17:02] <jerit> For my business partner's product we actually got AWS to host everything. On there I'm running an MS server with IIS and such to host my API and then the POS systems go on the linux server
[17:02] <superfly> pavlushka: stick to the simulators
[17:02] <jerit> the windows server manages DNS and email too
[17:02] <ra1v3n> pavlushka, what drugs are you on? and! Where are mine?
[17:02] <jerit> superfly: installed apache first, then mysql and php ya
[17:03] <superfly> I last installed that stuff a long time ago, but I didn't find it difficult
[17:03] <pavlushka> superfly: yep, I think that would be wise.
[17:03] <jerit> then I figured out some weirdness on the website and fixed it to apply to this environment and then got phpmyadmin installed and properly set up... now I'm working on securing it and getting the database info that I need out of the website
[17:04] <superfly> jerit: kudos to you, most people give up before they get to this point
[17:04] <jerit> superfly I'm based in SA so zar currency
[17:05] <superfly> (most ex-Windows)
[17:05] <jerit> for this project I'm getting paid 15k USD as a start so it wouldn't make sense to give up
[17:05] <Kilos> whew
[17:06] <superfly> ^^ what he said :-)
[17:06] <jerit> thereafter my profit share is to be paid to me as a monthly salary starting conservatively at 2500 USD/month
[17:06] <SEptic>     ^^ what he said too
[17:06] <jerit> so giving up is not an option haha
[17:07] <Kilos> nope fix it
[17:08] <jerit> unfortunately the stuff that needs to be fixed is the php and thats where my contractor comes in but I'm admin of these servers so I need to learn how to use them
[17:08]  * superfly needs to get kids into bed and will be back later
[17:12] <SEptic> woah ... kubuntu just blown my mind with "activities"
[17:15] <Kilos> lol
[17:16] <kulelu88> hey guys
[17:16] <kulelu88> is anybody familiar with SQL?
[17:16] <Kilos> hi kulelu88
[17:16] <kulelu88> specifically sqllite
[17:16] <Kilos> the pro
[17:16] <Kilos> most likely fly as well
[17:17] <Kilos> and we have new guys here kulelu88
[17:17] <kulelu88> how do I join x-db entries to form a 1-to-many relationship?
[17:55] <superfly> kulelu88: cross database?
[17:55] <superfly> jerit: managing to make some progress?
[17:57] <kulelu88> superfly: my setup is quite simple. I want to map 1-to-many relationships between containers. Do I even need a DB for this?
[17:57] <kulelu88> vertical relationships (master/slave) and then horizontal after that
[17:59] <superfly> kulelu88: I'm trying to understand what you hope to achieve by this?
[18:00] <kulelu88> superfly: by mapping relationships, I will be able to share packages between containers
[18:00] <superfly> kulelu88: ah, using container inheritance?
[18:02] <kulelu88> yes, correct. eg. Python will be the father of Django, Flask and Pandas. when I update Python, I just need to use my mapped relationships to say: okay, put all the fresh packages into Flask, Django and Pandas
[18:06] <superfly> kulelu88: if you actually use container inheritance you don't need to do that
[18:07] <kulelu88> superfly: looks like LXC doesn't have it
[18:07] <superfly> oh, you're using LXC
[18:07] <superfly> I don't know LXC
[18:08] <kulelu88> which is why I am rolling my own :D somebody already told me Docker solves this problem
[18:12] <superfly> I just had a brief look at LXC, and I'm flummoxed. their website does not overflow with information
[18:13] <kulelu88> here superfly https://linuxcontainers.org/ ?
[18:14] <superfly> yes
[18:15] <superfly> man pages are not documentation
[18:15] <superfly> they need to learn that.
[18:15] <kulelu88> superfly: LXC containers are quite awesome though. they are multi-process
[18:15] <superfly> kulelu88: as are docker containers
[18:16] <kulelu88> doesn't Docker break PID1?
[18:19] <superfly> kulelu88: this is why you use phusion's baseimage instead of Canonical's ubuntu
[18:19] <superfly> kulelu88: baseimage is ubuntu, but fixed
[18:20] <kulelu88> superfly: so you're saying the ubuntu base image breaks PID1 and not Docker?
[18:20] <superfly> yes
[18:20] <superfly> http://phusion.github.io/baseimage-docker/
[18:23] <kulelu88> aah that looks cool :D
[18:23] <superfly> indeedy
[18:23] <superfly> the phusion guys are quite jacked up
[18:24] <kulelu88> well I'm sure I can use this as an excuse to learn raw SQL though :)
[18:24] <superfly> haha
[18:24] <superfly> always good to use raw SQL
[18:25] <kulelu88> how good does raw SQL perform against using an ORM?
[18:25] <superfly> people should never ever use an ORM without knowing SQL
[18:25] <superfly> kulelu88: in most cases, they'll be on par
[18:26] <superfly> but someone who really knows that particular RDBMS well will be able to exploit it in ways an ORM cannot
[18:30] <kulelu88> I thought the ORM is what makes webapps like Flask and Django so slow, I didn't know the speeds are equivalent
[18:32] <superfly> hi Sicelo009N
[18:32] <superfly> kulelu88: it depends on the ORM. SQLAlchemy is fast
[18:32] <Kilos> whew he became a 009
[18:35] <Sicelo> lol .. that's my phone .. model number back-to-front
[18:35] <Sicelo> hope everyone is doing great
[18:35] <kulelu88> whoa someone who still uses Nokia
[18:36] <Sicelo> i actually have two of them :P
[18:36] <Sicelo> real linux n my pocket
[18:36] <Sicelo> s/n/in/
[18:37] <kulelu88> Sicelo: you tried booting an android device to Sailfish or Ubuntu yet?
[18:39] <theblazehen> Funny. I'm trying to build ubuntu now.. Over 16 GB of source...
[18:39] <theblazehen> Downloaded 15 GB locally, then decided to do it on my dedicated server instead
[18:39] <Sicelo009N> kulelu88: i don't have one ... but it's insanely difficult - bootloader issues
[18:40] <kulelu88> theblazehen: abusing high-speed priviledges :)
[18:40] <jerit> superfly I'm working on setting up the database now for the website and seeing if the website works
[18:40] <theblazehen> kulelu88: 500 mbit :)
[18:40] <jerit> then I need to secure phpmyadmin more apparently per https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-secure-phpmyadmin-on-ubuntu-14-04
[18:40] <kulelu88> stop showing off theblazehen :)
[18:41] <theblazehen> kulelu88: and 2 TB disk, 8 GB RAM
[18:41] <kulelu88> jerit: I wouldn't let phpmyadmin exist on a server
[18:41] <Sicelo009N> kulelu88: N900 too old for Sailfish .. but I've tested Ubuntu, Arch & Debian on it in the past ... will actually make 2nd one run Debian permanently now, as it is also now possible to make & receive calls while in Linux
[18:41] <theblazehen> Only around R1600 / month
[18:41] <kulelu88> only 8GB ram :O yucks
[18:41] <theblazehen> Unmetered bandwidth
[18:41] <kulelu88> fibre right?
[18:41] <jerit> lol kulelu88 I've heard some people prefer other things
[18:41] <kulelu88> jerit: installing woordepress?
[18:42] <theblazehen> kulelu88: It's in a datacenter
[18:42] <Sicelo009N> i prefer to avoid phpmyadmin if i can help it :-/
[18:42] <jerit> kulelu88 nope, the pos system my contractor developed. I'm looking at this as a setup for a new store
[18:42] <superfly> "securing"
[18:42] <jerit> not impressed, superfly? Is it worth doing?
[18:42] <superfly> Sicelo009N: I prefer to avoid PHP
[18:43] <superfly> jerit: it's worth doing, it'll stop most of the automated bots and things
[18:43] <Sicelo009N> :)
[18:43] <superfly> jerit: but it's not particularly secure
[18:44] <kulelu88> you let your dev develop a POS in PHP? 0.o in 2016 nogal
[18:44] <superfly> jerit: it's probably worth more putting it behind a TLS certificate
[18:44] <kulelu88> jerit: how big is your server?
[18:44] <kulelu88> and is it remote?
[18:44] <jerit> this one is just running as a vm on my pc here
[18:45] <jerit> the actual server is an EC2 instance on AWS
[18:45] <superfly> jerit: but if this is just locally on a VM, I wouldn't even bother
[18:45] <jerit> ah cool then
[18:45] <kulelu88> jerit: as superfly said, you should use lets encrypt for a free SSL cert (https) - so not MiTM
[18:46] <kulelu88> and then you can harden the OS firewall with some rules and then put an app firewall also, to prevent against attacks on the app itself
[18:46] <theblazehen> http://caddyserver.com/ is cool. Automatically gets ssl certs for you
[18:46] <theblazehen> I use it with a reverse proxy to get it for all my subdomains
[18:46] <kulelu88> theblazehen: does LXC have container inheritance?
[18:48] <theblazehen> kulelu88: Refering to nesting or something else?
[18:49] <kulelu88> theblazehen: more like something where container X and container Y both live on the same host, but X is Ys daddy
[18:50] <theblazehen> Well, you can run lxc inside lxc
[18:50] <kulelu88> down for you guys: https://pastee.org/ ?
[18:51] <theblazehen> yup
[19:16] <jerit> guys
[19:17] <jerit> my website works
[19:17] <superfly> jerit: \o/ woo
[19:17] <jerit> only took me all day lol
[19:17] <kulelu88> Devops level 1 unlocked jerit
[19:17] <jerit> now what else can I do with this ubuntu server?
[19:18] <jerit> can I set up znc without a static ip on it?
[19:18] <Sicelo> yes .. use a ddns service to 'follow'  your changing IP
[19:19] <Sicelo> althought most ISP can give static for not so much money (if any)
[19:19] <superfly> jerit: of  course since it's running in a VM, you won't be able to access it from outside your own PC
[19:19] <jerit> not so much money is all I've got lol
[19:20] <kulelu88> jerit: I know of a domain-based naming service that follows your dynamic IP to give you a static-like option
[19:22] <jerit> is that useful?
[19:22] <Sicelo> superfly: if he's not NATed, he can setup iptables to forward packets into the VM
[19:22] <Sicelo> ddns *is* useful if you have no choice ::)
[19:23] <jerit> I'm more involved in software dev, networking and such goes over my head generally speaking
[19:23] <jerit> ask me anything about C# and app development however and I can probably give you an answer
[19:23] <kulelu88> jerit: what's your dev toolset?
[19:23] <kulelu88> aah C#
[19:30] <Kilos> inetpro .
[19:33] <jerit> huh?
[19:41] <Kilos> inetpro ping
[19:41] <Kilos> glad you got that thing working jerit
[19:42] <Kilos> xo once youve tested it you gonna install on their server
[19:42] <Kilos> so
[19:42] <jerit> well I'm seriously considering dumping everything I've currently got set up on my live server and installing it all again like I did today
[19:43] <Kilos> hope you kept notes
[19:43] <Kilos> or can you remember it all
[19:43] <kulelu88> he doesn't need to
[19:43] <kulelu88> cat ./bash_history
[19:43] <Kilos> oh yes
[19:45] <Sicelo> if he changed the contents of files though ;)
[19:46] <kulelu88> git? Sicelo
[19:46] <kulelu88> or whatever source-code-manager he uses
[19:46] <jerit> I can remember most of it lol
[19:47] <kulelu88> your server will get hit with port scanners, root login attempts and brute-forcing jerit . secure the server first
[19:48] <jerit> server exists behind AWS firewalls in addition to whatever security is in place by default
[19:48] <jerit> I also limit SSH traffic to it to my IP address only - have to go in every day roughly and update it before I can access the shell
[19:49] <kulelu88> afaik, AWS has no firewalls. the service is self-managed
[19:49] <kulelu88> default security is none :P
[19:50] <jerit> well that's monday's problem. I'm off to have fun for the rest of my weekend
[19:50] <kulelu88> :D
[19:50] <jerit> Thanks for the help all (that means you especially superfly) :)
[19:50] <Kilos> lol
[19:52] <inetpro> Kilos: ?
[19:52] <Kilos> helloooooo inetpro
[19:52] <inetpro> ohi oom
[19:52] <Kilos> hoe gaan dit daar oompie
[19:52] <inetpro> busy, busy oom
[19:52] <Kilos> ive forgotten what i wanted to ask you
[19:52] <Kilos> again
[19:53] <Kilos> saterday night
[19:53] <Kilos> you need to rest sometime
[19:53] <superfly> jerit: you're welcome
[20:11] <Kilos> nice to see you involved again superfly
[20:12] <superfly> Kilos: pfft
[20:12] <Kilos> haha
[20:16] <inetpro> Kilos: rest?
[20:16] <inetpro> what is that?
[20:17] <Kilos> that thing you need to do sometimes inetpro
[20:17] <Kilos> you need to look after your health
[20:17] <Kilos> you are useless to anyone in a sick bed
[20:18] <inetpro> ok
[20:29] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[21:17] <pavlushka> I am following Kilos, going with him, see ya, :p