[00:00] <slangasek> stgraber: do you think this is important enough to have udev Breaks: the versions of the packages without 'or container'?  Since each of these are unlikely to usefully run in a container, I'm not convinced it's worth it
[00:00] <slangasek> (and it's higher risk wrt upgrades)
[00:01] <stgraber> slangasek: no, it's only really a problem when the container starts/restarts not a runtime problem, so just pushing them all at the same time so that they all are updated roughly at the same time should be enough
[01:15] <slangasek> apw: have confirmed this grub patch DTRT; though on my radeon test machine, I still get garbled fb after handoff
[01:27] <infinity> No command 'vim' found, did you mean:
[01:27] <infinity>  Command 'vmm' from package 'vmware-manager' (multiverse)
[01:27] <infinity>  Command 'zim' from package 'zim' (universe)
[01:27] <infinity> ...
[01:28] <infinity> You'd think it would suggest, I dunno, 'vim' from package 'vim'?
[01:28] <infinity> Oh, but it's an alternative. :/
[01:28] <infinity> Annoying.
[01:34] <nigelb> heh
[01:35] <sladen> infinity: launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/command-not-found/+filebug?field.title=command-not-found+does+not+suggest+vim+because+it+is+an+alternative
[01:39] <nigelb> so much troll on the fedora for arm lwn article.
[01:39] <nigelb> well, I was reading the comments. so I am to be blamed :)
[01:41] <ajmitch> nigelb: I hope you're not trolling there as well
[01:41] <nigelb> ajmitch: er, no. I only made the mistake of reading the comments
[01:41] <ajmitch> sure...
[05:14] <ScottK> jelmer: Are you planning on an FFe for dulwich 0.8.5 so bzr-git can build?
[05:52] <smoser> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/915581/
[05:52] <smoser> it seems you inadvertantly regressed the fix i put in for bug 762167
[06:39] <Adri2000> hmm, has the archive gpg key really not changed since 2004?
[06:42] <Adri2000> debian renews its key regularly and now has a 4096R one, while we still have a 1024D it seems. is that something that has already been discussed somewhere?
[06:48] <infinity> Adri2000: It's been discussed, yeah.
[06:50] <Adri2000> infinity: and? :)
[07:02] <dholbach> good morning
[07:03] <infinity> Adri2000: We know we need to rev to a new key at some point and test that our migration is sane, etc.  We don't have a specific timetable for when.
[07:07] <smb> @crashpilot in
[07:08] <udevbot> Error: "crashpilot" is not a valid command.
[07:08] <smb> Sadly the truth does not work... :-P
[07:08] <smb> @pilot in
[07:08] <Adri2000> infinity: ok
[07:23] <apw> slangasek, see your branch.  not sure this does quite the same thing.  as if i am at the boot prompt and i edit the gru
[07:24] <apw> slangasek, grub entry and switch the gfxpayload value i won't influence the value of vt_handoff -- of course thats no worse than now where one has to drop it from both places to be sure anyhow
[07:59] <tumbleweed> bdrung: done
[08:43] <cjwatson> slangasek: the debian-cd bit is public; https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu
[08:44] <cjwatson> slangasek: not that you'd want to use it for self-builds - easier to use lb config --binary-images iso-hybrid or similar
[08:46] <cjwatson> apw: I don't think it's necessary to solve the case of editing it by hand at the boot prompt
[08:47] <apw> cjwatson, indeed, though inspired by his patch i think i have a nice clean fix which does
[08:48] <cjwatson> I'll have a look when y'all settle down :)
[08:48] <apw> cjwatson, should have a branch shortly for perusal :)  i hate hate hate quilt
[08:51] <cjwatson> oh believe me it's better than what we were using beforehand
[08:52] <cjwatson> I switched grub2 to quilt because it made it about three times faster to refresh patches against new upstream versions
[08:52] <apw> cjwatson, i don't doubt it :)  i still _always_ use it wrong and eat my tree
[08:52] <cjwatson> but honestly if you're going to be spending time fighting with it, I'd rather you just attached a bare patch and let me worry about integrating it
[08:52] <cjwatson> better use of time all round
[08:53] <apw> cjwatson, well its also good practice :)  if i fail in half an hour i'll send it to you :)
[08:59] <nailora> bug #955848 -- can one of you make it public if possible? thanks!
[09:00] <cjwatson> nailora: is this a bug you're subscribed to, or that you reported?
[09:00] <cjwatson> nailora: if not, please give reasons
[09:00] <cjwatson> nailora: if so, you can just make it public yourself
[09:06] <nailora> i am sorting simple-scan bugs at a the moment. mostly those of the upstream launchpad project, but as most bugs are reported via ubuntu, i look through those as well. however some of them are private. i get to know about them if another public bug is marked as duplicate of the private bug. i suspect there are quite some more bugs i do not even know about.
[09:07] <nailora> i do not have any special rights with respect to the ubuntu project in launchpad.
[09:08] <cjwatson> nailora: I'm not sure I'm prepared to unprivate a simple-scan bug you didn't report, because I have no way to know whether e.g. it might be reverse-engineerable into bits of a private document somebody was scanning
[09:08] <cjwatson> that's the kind of reason why crash reports are private, because it's easy for bits of a dead process to contain confidential information
[09:08] <cjwatson> somebody who's a specialist in simple-scan can probably sort it out, but I don't think random developers can
[09:10] <cjwatson> nailora: if you join ubuntu-bugcontrol (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl) then you can see crash bugs
[09:12] <nailora> i understand that. but in the past (public) reports against simple-scan in ubuntu have been left without reponse for years (!), and i suspect this is even more true for private bug reports.
[09:13] <cjwatson> ok, you're certainly welcome to sign up for ubuntu-bugcontrol and DIY, I just don't feel comfortable doing it for you in this case
[09:13] <apw> cjwatson, ok in http://people.canonical.com/~apw/lp942846-grub2-precise/ are two files, 10_linux which is the 'finished' applied version, and a debdiff which in theory at least applies to make the same
[09:15] <apw> cjwatson, and if i picked the right base, this is it applied: lp:~apw/ubuntu/precise/grub2/lp942846
[09:17] <cjwatson> the change to ubuntu_recovery_nomodeset.patch looks wrong, but I can clean that up
[09:17] <apw> cjwatson, oh what did i do wrong there ...
[09:18] <cjwatson> looks like you did quilt refresh after a previous version of the change, and then went back and cleaned up but didn't quilt refresh your way up the stack
[09:18] <cjwatson> lp:~apw/ubuntu/precise/grub2/lp942846 looks like something entirely different
[09:18] <cjwatson> the top change is "grep refuses to process files which are also its stdout channel
[09:18] <cjwatson> which prevents the password check from working and emits an ugly error.
[09:18] <cjwatson> (LP: #911225)"
[09:18] <cjwatson> pushed the wrong branch?
[09:19] <apw> cjwatson, that is the previous commit, and i did push, then commit and push again, so i think that is LP lag ... grrr
[09:19] <lag> apw always blames lag :(
[09:20] <cjwatson> normally if it's LP lag there's a message saying that new versions will be available shortly
[09:20] <cjwatson> in any case why would the base be that revision of yours?  that was ages ago
[09:20]  * lag changes his name to lp_is_working_perfectly
[09:21] <apw> cjwatson, i have lost the plot entirely somewhere ... bzr is doing something i cannot fathom
[09:21] <cjwatson> oh, there we go, there's a message now
[09:21] <bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks. can you upload it as 0.8.2 or should i do that?
[09:21] <apw> cjwatson, i rm -rf'd a grub2/precise directory then branched a new one, and pushed to that name above, when i push it pushes to some other saved place, where it gets that i have no idea
[09:21] <cjwatson> apw: nope, base for this is completely wrong
[09:22] <cjwatson> not that that means I couldn't merge, but I think it'd be easier to go off the debdiff perhaps
[09:22] <apw> bah i am a lost cause
[09:22] <cjwatson> you can see in https://code.launchpad.net/~apw/ubuntu/precise/grub2/lp942846
[09:22] <cjwatson> or by 'bzr log' locally
[09:22] <apw> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise/grub2 was in theory waht i used to get it
[09:23] <cjwatson> ah, er, yeah, don't do that
[09:23] <cjwatson> see Vcs-Bzr in 'apt-cache showsrc grub2' for the real branch
[09:23] <cjwatson> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/precise/grub2/precise
[09:23] <cjwatson> I think I was having trouble with the importer
[09:24] <cjwatson> then again, this branch is not based on lp:ubuntu/precise/grub2 either, just based on what the log says
[09:25] <cjwatson> no idea what you did :)
[09:25]  * apw cries
[09:25] <infinity> Poor apw.
[09:25] <cjwatson> I'm happy to just work off the debdiff if you want
[09:25] <infinity> Need me to import grub into git for you, so you can figure it out? ;)
[09:25] <cjwatson> nooooo
[09:25] <apw> cjwatson, that might be easier :)
[09:26] <nailora> i will consider joining ubuntu-bugcontrol. i am unhappy with the situation because 99% percent of private bugs with simple-scan are mere cries for help from clueless users switching from windows suffering from crappy drivers. no bug reports should be created and certainly no private ones... nobody will look at the trace and the best thing for everyone is a timely "let me google that for you" or "sorry, we cant change
[09:26] <cjwatson> apw: ok, let's see
[09:27] <nailora> i understand that the situation is different for bugs where some engineering is to be done. but this is more first level support where apport made it to easy to file a bug report.
[09:32] <tumbleweed> bdrung: sure, will upload
[09:33] <raffa50> hello
[09:33] <raffa50> i'm triying to add my mime type to ubuntu
[09:34] <raffa50> i'm pacaging the .deb for my app
[09:34] <raffa50> where i shoud insert xdg-mime i/src/sly.xml ?
[09:34] <raffa50> in rules ? where?
[09:34] <cjwatson> nailora: the crash reporting system is being reengineered to make these kinds of things reports in a separate crash reporting system that can be looked at statistically, rather than bug reports
[09:35] <directhex> raffa50, man dh_installmime
[09:35] <cjwatson> we don't have the resources to look at every crash bug individually, and aren't going to have, so it does need a different presentation
[09:36] <cjwatson> the business of reporting crashes as bugs straight off was only ever intended to be temporary
[09:36] <cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-p-crash-database
[09:39] <smb> @pilot out
[09:40] <nailora> cjwatson: that might improve the situation
[09:40] <raffa50> man dh_installmime ????????? where is?
[09:41] <cjwatson> raffa50: the debhelper package; and please only use one question mark at a time, we don't need nine in a row :-)
[09:43] <raffa50> can't understand
[09:43] <apw> cjwatson, i had better re-test this applied version after all these fubars ...  if you push up your applied version i can make sure its right
[09:43] <raffa50> i extracted .dev
[09:43] <raffa50> deb
[09:43] <raffa50> and i opened ruler file
[09:43] <raffa50> rules
[09:43] <raffa50> in debian foder
[09:44] <cjwatson> apw: oh, my comment about ubuntu_recovery_modeset.patch was wrong, sorry, I misread the two levels of patch
[09:44] <raffa50> now where i must place xdg-mime /src/sly.xml for istalliong
[09:44] <raffa50> my mine
[09:45] <directhex> raffa50, "man" is the command to view a manual page. dh_installmime is the command to set up mime types in packages. so <directhex> raffa50, man dh_installmime
[09:45] <directhex> i.e. if you're manually writing xdg-mime anywhere you're doing things terribly terribly wrong
[09:45] <cjwatson> mm, xdg-mime uses a different file format from dh_installmime
[09:46] <cjwatson> no package on my system appears to use xdg-mime at all
[09:46] <directhex> cjwatson, glorious
[09:46] <raffa50> i asked aroud
[09:46] <raffa50> they sayd to add mime in that way
[09:46] <apw> cjwatson, heh well thats something
[09:46] <directhex> sigh
[09:47] <directhex> raffa50, have you read that manual page yet?
[09:47] <raffa50> yes
[09:47] <raffa50> but now i'm confused
[09:47] <raffa50> i wrote an xml
[09:48] <raffa50> and now what i must do? (sorry i'm italian and only 18)
[09:49] <directhex> http://wiki.debian.org/MimeTypesSupport
[09:49] <directhex> i don't have time for the clearly required level of hand holding. you may have better luck in #ubuntu-motu
[09:50] <cjwatson> directhex: oh, I see, these XML files live in .sharedmimeinfo
[09:51] <cjwatson> that makes a degree of sense, at least
[09:51] <cjwatson> raffa50: so put your XML file in debian/YOURPACKAGENAME.sharedmimeinfo, replacing YOURPACKAGENAME with ... your package name
[09:51] <raffa50> ah
[09:51] <raffa50> and then?
[09:52] <cjwatson> raffa50: if you're using sensible modern packaging with dh, then that's all you need
[09:52] <raffa50> ?
[09:52] <cjwatson> raffa50: otherwise, you need to call dh_installmime in your binary-arch or binary-indep target in debian/rules as appropriate (there are probably a bunch of other dh_installblah things there already)
[09:53] <raffa50> i did as you sayd
[09:53] <raffa50> i placed
[09:53] <raffa50> my xml
[09:53] <raffa50> in debian
[09:53] <raffa50> now it's name is sly.sharedmimeinfo
[09:54] <raffa50> i need to do other things?
[09:54] <cjwatson> post debian/rules to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[09:55] <raffa50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/915787/
[09:57] <cjwatson> raffa50: add 'dh_installmime -i' after the line that says 'dh_installmenu'.  The line with 'dh_installmime -i' on it *must* start with a real tab character, just like the other lines around it.
[10:02] <raffa50> ok
[10:02] <raffa50> ki try
[10:04] <raffa50> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -kE05C9204 is the command to build right??
[10:05] <raffa50> istalled
[10:05] <raffa50> don't work
[10:07] <raffa50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/915799/
[10:07] <raffa50> first row is <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
[10:08] <cjwatson> raffa50: that builds a source package, not a binary package ...
[10:08] <cjwatson> 'debuild -uc -us' builds binary packages
[10:08] <raffa50> ok
[10:09] <raffa50> i'm noob, but my project is big: Sly IDE for beginners
[10:11] <raffa50> now it builded .deb'
[10:11] <raffa50> ? i try again
[10:13] <raffa50> nothing again
[10:13] <raffa50> is my xml correct? http://paste.ubuntu.com/915799/
[10:16] <raffa50> in the first row i missed ? because pastebin doesn't allow it
[10:20] <raffa50> there is anyone??? yhuuhuuuuu?
[10:25] <apw> cjwatson, ahh thanks, will re-test it after all that dammage
[10:26] <directhex> raffa50, run "dpkg -I yourpackage.deb postinst"
[10:26] <directhex> and pastebin the result
[10:27] <cjwatson> apw: looks like it should be fine; I have one or two other things I want to sort out, so either feel free to test from the branch, or I'll go through it once I'm ready
[10:28] <apw> cjwatson, i will test this bit from the branch indeed
[10:28] <cjwatson> apw: or I can build binaries for you if you're still having trouble getting the right branch
[10:28] <apw> cjwatson, nope incompentance over, i see your clean tip with the extra change
[10:28] <cjwatson> 'k, cool
[10:29] <apw> cjwatson, glad at least the debdiff was right even if i was based in space
[10:42] <bdrung> tumbleweed: fyi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667614
[10:43] <tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I saw some of the IRC discussion on that
[10:45] <bdrung> tumbleweed: you may come up with a patch (you are a better perl hacker than me)
[10:46] <tumbleweed> heh
[11:08] <raffa50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/915850/
[11:19] <apw> cjwatson, ok in my testing that seems to behave as i would expect, this should give those psb people something to switch which will work
[11:26] <cjwatson> apw: great - I'll upload that later today.  I'll also look at making this automatic in the encrypted-/usr case
[11:26] <apw> cjwatson, what was it thats on / that breaks graphics?  given all of /boot is not encrypted ?
[11:27] <apw> cjwatson, as slangasek was saying it worked fine for him which was confusing
[11:27] <cjwatson> apw: /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 is big and isn't copied to /boot/
[11:28] <cjwatson> see 'if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2' in grub.cfg
[11:28] <apw> yep ... makes sense.  so yes in that case off sounds good by default
[11:28] <apw> cjwatson, and i need to get whoever has the psb stuff to get their ids added to the blacklist
[11:29] <cjwatson> it is possible to manually copy unicode.pf2 to /boot/grub/, and maybe slangasek had done that
[11:38] <raffa50> help please
[11:38] <raffa50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/915850/
[11:45] <raffa50> no way
[11:54] <raffa50> help me please
[11:55] <raffa50> there isn't an example?
[12:02]  * ogra_ wonders if anyone knows a more elegant way to apply arch specific quilt patches to a package than what i do in http://paste.ubuntu.com/915905/
[12:09] <cjwatson> ogra_: why can't it be ifdeffed and thus just applied for all architectures?
[12:09] <ogra_> cjwatson, because it changes stuff that cant easily be ifdeffed ... (long story) ... the patch bneeds to be arch specific in this caswe
[12:09] <ogra_> *case
[12:10] <ogra_> (it changes the API of some core functions afaik, i'm only the patch delivery guy here)
[12:11] <ogra_> cjwatson, do you know a more elegant way than mangling the series file ?
[12:14] <cjwatson> ogra_: I don't
[12:14] <ogra_> k
[12:15] <ogra_> i was hoping for some quilt magic i dont know about :(
[12:16] <cjwatson> although the approach in that pastebin is bad, because it will repeatedly append the arch-specific entries on repeated builds
[12:16] <ogra_> right
[12:16] <cjwatson> ogra_: a slightly neater approach might be to have a separate directory for the arch-specific patches, and call quilt twice setting QUILT_PATCHES the second time
[12:17] <cjwatson> ogra_: or, actually, you don't need a separate directory; you could set QUILT_SERIES=series.$(ARCH)
[12:18] <cjwatson> you ought to override dh_quilt_unpatch as well
[12:18] <raffa50> cjwatson: help me don't work
[12:18] <cjwatson> raffa50: sorry, I can't
[12:18] <raffa50> :(
[12:18] <cjwatson> raffa50: I have too many other things to do and you aren't providing any useful information about how it doesn't work
[12:18] <raffa50> no .deb examples
[12:18] <ogra_> cjwatson, yeah, thats just for testing the functionality yet
[12:18] <raffa50> ?
[12:18] <ogra_> indeed upatch will get aqn override too
[12:18] <ogra_> *an
[12:18] <ogra_> *unpatch *sigh*
[12:19]  * ogra_ goes to look at QUILT_SERIES ... didnt notice that one yet
[12:20] <raffa50> what shoud i do now?
[12:21] <cjwatson> perhaps you should write up your question in detail and post it somewhere else, such as askubuntu.com or some appropriate mailing list
[12:21] <cjwatson> somewhere that's more focused on application developers
[12:21] <raffa50> i asked on italian forum
[12:36] <cjwatson> apw: actually, I'm going to skip any changes to the 'if loadfont' path - experimentation suggests that this may be hardware-specific, i.e. it will at least sometimes manage to enable gfxterm anyway even if gfxmode hasn't been explicitly set beforehand
[12:36] <raffa50> oki
[12:36] <raffa50> i asked
[12:36] <cjwatson> apw: I think the only sensible approach long-term is to write a new command that exits zero iff a video mode is active, but I don't want to attempt that for precise really
[12:37] <apw> cjwatson, yeah that would be nice if we could do it, but as you say that is a Q job
[12:37] <apw> cjwatson, could you gate it on the existance of that font file for the time being?
[12:37] <cjwatson> no, because that's actually not correct
[12:37] <cjwatson> I did some tests here and got a video mode even without loading a font or setting gfxmode
[12:38] <apw> gurgle
[12:38] <cjwatson> just with a rescue CD image produced using grub-mkrescue, in kvm
[12:38] <cjwatson> so something else is going on, and I don't want to make a random change without understanding what :)
[12:39]  * cjwatson uploads what he has so far
[12:39] <apw> cjwatson, fair indeed.  well i guess for now we can just leave things as they are perhaps?  and where its known to explode with a specific card we just get those in the blacklist, and if its else they have to do it by hand
[12:40] <apw> at least now they can use the /etc/default/grub variables to turn it off properly
[12:40] <raffa50> where can i find a .deb example that adds mime?
[12:42] <cjwatson> raffa50: the following packages on my system appear to register MIME entries using the system we recommended: apport brasero-common capplets-data fontforge gnome-keyring gramps libreoffice-common nautilus-data shared-mime-info software-properties-gtk tomboy vinagre
[12:42] <cjwatson> raffa50: so you can 'apt-get source' any of those and inspect them
[12:43] <cjwatson> apw: provisionally that seems reasonable; I guess we'll see
[12:49] <raffa50> thanks
[12:50] <raffa50> when i done
[12:50] <raffa50> apt-get source
[12:50] <raffa50> tomboy
[12:51] <raffa50> what foder i should open?
[12:51] <raffa50> ls
[12:51] <raffa50> found
[12:55] <ogra_> hmpf, so it seems compiz does completely ignore the patch target during build, it inly applies them on unpack :/
[12:55] <ogra_> *only
[13:00] <ogra_> (which means that debian/rules doesnt apply indeed ... sigh)
[13:04] <kenvandine> smoser, sorry i should have noticed that
[13:04] <kenvandine> smoser, i'll fix it and merge it into the packaging branch
[13:16] <raffa50> i made some thing
[13:16] <raffa50> now it says
[13:16] <raffa50> Tipo application/x-sly
[13:17] <raffa50> impossible to find application for opening type application/x-sly
[13:24] <mhall119> dholbach: ping
[13:24] <dholbach> mhall119, pong
[13:25] <mhall119> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/973394 contains a patch to add Keywords to thunderbird.desktop
[13:25] <mhall119> specifically so that a Dash search for "Email" will contain Thunderbird
[13:25] <mhall119> it's recently been highlighted as something needed for 12.04 in http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/opinion/5-problems-with-ubuntu-12-04-part-1-unity-dash-usability-issues/
[13:25] <dholbach> nice
[13:26] <dholbach> chrisccoulson, ^ did you see this one?
[13:26] <dholbach> mhall119, it seems to be milestoned for precise
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> dholbach, yeah, it's already fixed in the nightly builds
[13:26] <mhall119> chrisccoulson: awesome, thanks!
[14:02] <ogra_> sigh, i wonder if its not easier to just ignore quilt and just use patch conditionally
[14:07] <hallyn> tjaalton: ok i can't personally list any improvements with the new qxl driver so I can't recommend pushing it (if you haven't already) unless Munzir chimes in
[14:07] <hallyn> tjaalton: apparently spice updates in debian are slow in coming because of fights over what to do with celt
[14:08] <hallyn> might have to do something in 12.10 (like do our own updates)
[14:13] <ogra_> seems if i use quilt here, it still uses the .pc directory which messes up all my overrides
[14:15] <Laney> you probably can't do stuff like that with 3.0 (quilt), at least not nicely
[14:15] <ogra_> yeah, just finding that out
[14:16] <ogra_> i guess i'll just go with a simple "patch -p0 <debian/patches/my_extra_patch.patch" in debian/rules or some such
[14:16] <Laney> make sure to reverse it in clean too
[14:17] <ogra_> indeed
[14:18] <ogra_> intrestingly not even the suggestion from cjwatson above to just set the QUILT_ vars differently seem to help ... seems the .pc metadata is set in stone at this point
[14:22] <jml> :(
[14:23] <jml> the phsical 't' ke on m keboard (letter between 'x' and 'z' in dvorak) is being mapped to the Hiragana-Katanana ke
[14:23] <Laney> there might be $QUILT_PC
[14:25] <ogra_> oh, wait ! it might help if the package actually used dh --with quilt $@ instead of just dh $@
[14:25]  * ogra_ slaps forehead
[14:29] <tjaalton> hallyn: that's ok, let's keep what we have now :)
[14:29] <tjaalton> it's very simple to backport if someone needs it
[14:29] <hallyn> ack that :)
[14:35] <smoser> slangasek, SpamapS bug 974284 raised in openstack-dev
[14:55] <SpamapS> smoser: interesting
[14:55] <smoser> the power fail scenario does seem valid.
[15:07] <Adri2000> in a default amd64 precise install, can I disable dpkg's "foreign-archicture i386" without any problem? or is it going to break things (I'm thinking of stuff like flash)?
[15:07] <Adri2000> or do I need to add i386 to my local mirror? :s
[15:08] <cjwatson> it'd break flash, yes; but you can use "deb [arch=amd64] http://mirror/ubuntu precise main" or similar if you need to have sources.list lines with non-default architecture sets
[15:15] <Adri2000> cjwatson: after testing looks like flash is ok, but stuff like acroread, needing ia32-libs-multiarch and nspluginviewer aren't...
[15:16] <Adri2000> well I guess I'll have to choose: proprietary stuff, or more hard disk for my mirror :)
[15:16] <cjwatson> I gave you an option that didn't involve changing your mirror
[15:16] <cjwatson> assuming you don't mind downloading a small amount of stuff directly from the primary archive
[15:16] <Adri2000> I tried, but it has the same effect as changing dpkg conf: ia32-libs-multiarch and nspluginviewer are still unavailable
[15:17] <Adri2000> yeah, I'd have to keep archive.ubuntu.com in sources.list
[15:17] <cjwatson> yes, you would
[15:18] <Adri2000> I see. that won't work for my specific case (should not go directly to outside repositories), but good to know anyway
[15:20] <slangasek> cjwatson: oh hah, did I manually copy unicode.pf2?  That's possible, I remember something along those lines :/  but I thought grub itself had code to do that copy when needed
[15:21] <cjwatson> maybe we did once and took it out 'cos it was giant
[15:21] <cjwatson> I forget :)
[15:22] <slangasek> apw: so keying off of gfxpayload directly, then?  That makes sense to me
[15:22] <cjwatson> anyway, I think we've since established that there are other ways you might get a graphical mode
[15:22] <slangasek> ok
[15:30] <apw> slangasek, yeah that the hope.  and if you change gfxmode $foo to gfxmode text everything naturally follows
[15:32] <ogra_> slangasek, wrt the compiz patches, the prob with them is that all i can get is a diff between two bzr branches ... sadly the package has additional quilt patches in debia/patches that touch the same files in some areas so its not just apply and go, i'm trying to work out a better plan with linaro to go forward with that atm
[16:28] <mpt> ev, reported bug 974428
[16:29] <ev> cheers
[16:42] <smoser> slangasek, i'd really appreciate your brain power on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ifupdown/+bug/974284
[16:48] <slangasek> smoser: hmm, had seen your follow-up to bug #838968 this morning in connection with this, and am at the moment still confused
[16:49] <slangasek> in part because I thought we'd put that issue to bed :)
[16:49] <smoser> well, we did a good job on boot.
[16:49] <smoser> (i think)
[16:49] <smoser> but apparently negatively affected reliability
[16:50] <smoser> and the most recent comment there is most damaging.
[16:50] <slangasek> ah, I see there
[16:50] <slangasek> I think I would argue that dhclient needs to be modified to give us the behavior we want
[16:50] <slangasek> stgraber: ^^ what do you think?
[16:53] <stgraber> yeah, I saw smoser's bug but am not too sure what to do here... assuming the interface is configured when dhclient returns is wrong unless we have -1 but if we call with -1 then it's possible you don't get your IP if the DHCP server was unavailable
[16:53] <stgraber> our current behaviour is identical to d-i and network-manager's behaviour, if you don't get an IP from DHCP within $TIMEOUT, it fails
[16:54] <smoser> the one thought i had....
[16:54] <smoser> most of the time the original 60 second timeout was enough
[16:54] <smoser> we bumpted that to 5 minutes
[16:54] <slangasek> stgraber: have posted a couple thoughts on the bug
[16:55] <slangasek> (and assigned to you)
[16:55] <smoser> i *think* that dhclient didn't background until that 5 minutes was up.
[16:55] <smoser> err. that timeout.
[16:55] <slangasek> smoser: I believe that's correct
[16:55] <smoser> if thats the case, then we're in a much better position if we revert the '-1' flag.
[16:55] <slangasek> er, oh
[16:56] <slangasek> sorry, no, it should background as soon as it gets a lease
[16:56] <slangasek> I misread
[16:56] <smoser> ie, ifup will much more often exit with the correct exit value (0 on success).
[16:56] <smoser> slangasek, oh. well thats good enough.
[16:56] <slangasek> if it hits the timeout without getting a lease, it exits non-zero, and the interface is marked as down
[16:56] <smoser> wel... anywah.
[16:56] <smoser> i'll lave you to think about it.
[16:56] <slangasek> if it gets a lease, it backgrounds immediately and the parent process exits 0
[16:56] <smoser> right, which really is "success"
[16:57] <smoser> so thats fine.
[16:57] <smoser> i lagely agree with the comment in the bug slangasek
[16:58] <smoser> but i think ideally we'd also still background on timeout failure
[16:58] <smoser> initial timeout.
[16:58] <smoser> ie, to safeguard for the power failure case, where 5 minutes wasn't enough, but 5 minutes and 3 seconds would have been.
[16:59] <stgraber> so we want dhclient to try for $TIMEOUT, if it gets a lease during that time, background itself and get into a renewal/retry loop, if it doesn't, then ???
[16:59] <stgraber> for ??? I tend to prefer failing as I really don't want to run the ifupdown hooks unless we have a working connection
[17:00] <stgraber> but you clearly prefer continuing regardless that'll make all the upstart jobs trigger as well as all upstart hooks (even though you don't have network access)
[17:02] <doko> bryceh, ping
[17:08] <stgraber> slangasek: commented in the bug. I scanned through all the existing options and no combination of these that are documented will do what we want, so we need to implement a new option
[17:09] <slangasek> stgraber: is it wrong to change the behavior of -1?
[17:10] <slangasek> the fact that dhclient -1 backgrounds and sticks around after getting a lease is already contrary to the obvious meaning of the option
[17:10] <slangasek> so extending it to also retry on failure once backgrounded would also seem ok to me?
[17:10] <slangasek> (NM doesn't appear to use -1, so no issues there)
[17:11] <stgraber> slangasek: I think it might be a problem if something like Network Manager (bad example, it doesn't use it, just checked) expects "dhclient -1" to exit on failure to renew as a way of monitoring it
[17:11] <slangasek> :)
[17:11] <slangasek> so, what else besides NM would we need to worry about here?
[17:11] <slangasek> d-i doesn't monitor either
[17:11] <stgraber> netcfg
[17:12] <stgraber> ah, I thought it was calling with -1
[17:12] <slangasek> it does, but it also doesn't monitor
[17:12] <slangasek> I think in general anything that's going to monitor for lease renewal failures is going to *not* use -1
[17:12] <slangasek> because if it's smart enough to monitor, it doesn't need the -1, does it?
[17:13] <slangasek> oh, maybe -1 is the only way dhclient does any error reporting at all :P
[17:13] <stgraber> indeed, you shouldn't need -1 if you monitor (using -sf)
[17:22] <smoser> ok. i have a stupid question. (not uncommon)
[17:22] <smoser> wget http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/MD5SUMS.gpg
[17:22] <smoser> wget http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/MD5SUMS
[17:22] <smoser> gpg  --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg --verify MD5SUMS.gpg  MD5SUMS
[17:22] <smoser> 2 questions
[17:22] <smoser> a.) is there a better way to know the keyring to use there?
[17:22] <smoser> b.) when you do that it says: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
[17:29] <mdeslaur> smoser: why don't you just use the keyring that's in ubuntu-keyring?
[17:29] <smoser> is that not what i'm doing ?
[17:29] <mdeslaur> oh wait, I'm misreading :)
[17:29] <mdeslaur> duh, sorry
[17:30] <slangasek> smoser: a) no, b) the warning should be ignored
[17:30] <smoser> slangasek, gracias.
[17:32] <slangasek> smoser: to expand: the reason you can trust the key is because you have it installed via the ubuntu-keyring package, which uses its own trust path through the Ubuntu archive; so this makes the warning ignorable, but also means it's the only trust path most people have to the key, so you can't just fetch the key from a keyserver for verification
[17:32] <smoser> right.
[17:52] <SpamapS> slangasek: so, what do we do about myodbc?
[17:52] <SpamapS> slangasek: its the last rdep on libmysqlclient16
[17:58] <slangasek> SpamapS: hmm, in Ubuntu or Debian?  The version of myodbc in experimental should be syncable and work in precise, provided there's an adequate version of mysql-5.5 there
[17:59] <arges_> Who is the patch pilot today?
[18:01] <slangasek> I would look it up, but I can never remember the name of the wiki page
[18:01] <SpamapS> slangasek: ah so perhaps just a sync then? I'll try a test build.
[18:01] <slangasek> because it doesn't contain the words "patch" or "pilot"
[18:01] <slangasek> SpamapS: yeah, I would say a sync is best
[18:02] <slangasek> ah, CodeReview*s*
[18:02] <slangasek> (and there's now a PatchPilot redirect, goody :)
[18:02] <slangasek> cnd: are you patch piloting today?
[18:33] <psusi> why is there no bzr branch for mdadm?
[18:37] <slangasek> psusi: see http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ for the failure
[18:38] <ogra_> hmm, did debootstrap recently start to set the default locale to en_US.UTF-8 ?
[18:39]  * ogra_ gets locale warnings inside a fresh chroot where i'm chrooted with LANG=C ...
[18:40] <slangasek> ogra_: not that I'm aware of
[18:40] <ogra_> weird
[18:49] <psusi> slangasek: so it's a bug in bzr?
[18:49] <slangasek> it's a bug in the package importer
[18:49] <slangasek> I don't know if it's a bug in bzr per se
[18:50] <psusi> slangasek: so I should file a bug against udd?
[18:50] <SpamapS> slangasek: test rebuild worked, smoke test worked.. myodbc synced
[18:50] <slangasek> psusi: you can, though I would note that this is unlikely to get actioned very quickly... if you care about seeing this fixed any time soon, you probably have to roll up your sleeves
[18:53] <slangasek> SpamapS: woohoo
[18:55] <SpamapS> I *think* thats the last actual mysql 5.1 deps now
[18:55] <SpamapS> everything left is just suggests
[18:56] <slangasek> cjwatson, apw: for reference, I do see a comment in the changelog, from 2009, about copying unicode.pf2 to /boot; so I presume that's how I have it :)
[18:56] <SpamapS> crap.. akonadi-backend-mysql
[18:57] <slangasek> heh
[18:57] <SpamapS> no
[18:57] <SpamapS> strike that
[18:57] <SpamapS> local version
[18:57]  * SpamapS needs to run these rdepends in a chroot
[18:57] <SpamapS> argh
[18:58] <stgraber> smoser: hmm, can you confirm that when running dhcp without -1 that when the lease expires and dhclient can't renew it doesn't exit and instead retries indefinitely?
[18:59] <smoser> stgraber, i honestly do not know.
[18:59] <stgraber> smoser: because I can't find any code doing that in isc-dhcp, the code path with or without -1 seems identical when it comes to renewal
[18:59] <smoser> so you think it would have failed all the same for the bug opener
[18:59] <smoser> regardless of the -1
[18:59] <stgraber> looking at the code, it should, yeah
[18:59] <stgraber> »···if (interval > client -> config -> timeout) {
[18:59] <stgraber> »···»···state_panic (client);
[18:59] <stgraber> »···»···return;
[18:59] <stgraber> »···}
[19:00] <smoser> i cannot ocnfirm that.
[19:00] <smoser> or deny
[19:01] <stgraber> that code is all the code paths I could find, so when dhclient can't renew, it tries again for $TIMEOUT (5 minutes in our case), then that if matches and dhclient exits with an error message in syslog
[19:01] <stgraber> smoser: I'll run another test here to confirm that I get the same behaviour without -1
[19:01] <smoser> stgraber, and it takes down the iP ?
[19:01] <stgraber> yes
[19:02] <stgraber> correct behaviour considering it's expired and can get allocated to another client by the server
[19:02] <stgraber> (when it gets back to life)
[19:34] <SpamapS> jdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lemonpos/+bug/894377 .. mysql-5.1 is safe to remove now :)
[19:35] <jdstrand> SpamapS: ack, thanks
[19:41] <jjohansen> stgraber: so I have hardware to help debug the web cam bug in Bug #966294
[19:47] <stgraber> jjohansen: cool, I currently have ssh access to gema's netbook for testing
[19:47] <stgraber> jjohansen: can you confirm that "gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=640,height=480 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! xvimagesink" works on that machine?
[19:48] <stgraber> it's a bit dark at gema's place at the moment ;) so hard to tell if I'm getting a black/broken input or if it's actually working :)
[19:53] <jjohansen> stgraber: yes it works
[19:55] <jdstrand> SpamapS: mythtv has build deps on libmysqlclient16-dev | libmysqlclient15-dev
[19:57] <jdstrand> SpamapS: I added a task to the bug
[19:57] <micahg> superm1: ^^
[19:57] <jdstrand> superm1: fyi 894377
[19:58] <jdstrand> superm1: also fyi, libmysqlclient16-dev is listed twice as a build dep
[19:58] <stgraber> jjohansen: ok, I'm starting to downgrade packages to pinpoint when it broke, I might poke you again for more tests soon
[19:58] <jjohansen> stgraber: sure
[20:00] <stgraber> jjohansen: do you remember seeing that screen when installing Oneiric?
[20:00] <jjohansen> stgraber: yep, it worked did it this morning
[20:01] <stgraber> cool, thanks, that's useful to confirm ;)
[20:13] <superm1> jdstrand: mythtv has build depends on either so that the same source can be built on lucid->precise
[20:13] <superm1> we build on the daily PPA using the same source package
[20:13] <jdstrand> superm1: that is fine-- I'm saying that libmysqlclient16-dev is listed on its own and as part of libmysqlclient16-dev | libmysqlclient15-dev (check the control file)
[20:14] <superm1> jdstrand: ohh i see
[20:14] <jdstrand> superm1: problem is, libmysqlclient16-dev is going away in precise. see bug #894377
[20:14] <superm1> will fix it for next upload
[20:14] <jdstrand> superm1: can you adjust it to also have libmysqlclient-dev in there?
[20:15] <superm1> jdstrand: sure
[20:15] <jdstrand> superm1: awesome-- that should fix the bug
[20:15] <jdstrand> superm1: thanks!
[20:15] <superm1> planning next upload to be start of next weekish (right before FF), is that ok, or do you need it fixed sooner so the archive can adjust?
[20:16] <jdstrand> I'll let SpamapS comment ^
[20:16] <jdstrand> this is all universe stuff, so it shouldn't really matter
[20:22] <chrisccoulson> is there an archive admin who can process bug 971525 for me, please :-)
[20:23] <micahg> chrisccoulson: that one wasn't from Debian, Q-FUNK uploaded it
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> really?
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> that sucks
[20:24] <micahg> yeah, I complained at the time
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> it still needs to go
[20:24] <micahg> and I thought you said it was fine :)
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> i was never asked about this
[20:26] <stgraber> jjohansen: did you try with i386 or amd64?
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> urgh, no, this isn't. i've never looked at this in my life
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> i looked at some spice plugin
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> but not this
[20:26] <jjohansen> stgraber: amd64
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> nobody has ever asked me about this extension
[20:26] <micahg> I will scream louder next time ;(
[20:26] <jjohansen> do you want me to reinstall and try i386?
[20:26] <jjohansen> stgraber: ^
[20:28] <stgraber> jjohansen: I currently don't have any reason to suspect the architecture to impact it but I see that only one of the duplicates was on i386, everything else was amd64
[20:29] <stgraber> jjohansen: btw, apparently downgrading libgstreamer0.10-0 to oneiric's version, does the trick on that system, now triple-checking this and I'll try to pinpoint a specific part of the library as the changelog is unfortunately huge
[20:29] <stgraber> jjohansen: so yeah, if you don't care about that system and have a few minutes, testing i386 would be interesting, if only just to confirm that it's not architecture specific
[20:30] <jjohansen> stgraber: okay, will do
[20:38] <Q-FUNK> seb128: deleting a package from the archive just like that is not appreciated at all.
[20:39] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: and if there's a problem with a particulat plug-in, file a bug, rather than acting like you did.
[20:39] <micahg> Q-FUNK: it never should've been uploaded in the first place
[20:39] <chrisccoulson> Q-FUNK, it shouldn't have been accepted
[20:39] <chrisccoulson> we got rid of pretty much all firefox extensions from the archive for a good reason
[20:40] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: then it should have been said back then.
[20:40] <bdrung> kenvandine: nice ubuntu-wallpaper upload. finally the old wallpapers can still be used.
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> of course. but nobody asked me
[20:41] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: could it have been a good idea to get yourself know to the uploader then?
[20:41] <seb128> Q-FUNK, breaking firefox is not appreciated at all
[20:41] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: right now, you're forcing the removal of a package that's needed to access public services and whose upload into the archive took ages to happen.
[20:41] <Q-FUNK> seb128: do you even have proof that it's what did it?
[20:41] <seb128> Q-FUNK, the removal has been asked by the firefox maintainer and I trust him to know what he's asking for
[20:42] <seb128> Q-FUNK, it's not like it's hard to add it back when it's resolved
[20:42] <seb128> Q-FUNK, it's just the safe way
[20:42] <seb128> Q-FUNK, if it turns out to be an error I'm happy to NEW it back
[20:42] <Q-FUNK> seb128: it's not like I can know IF and WHAT is broken after it's been removed without anyone backing up their claims.
[20:43] <seb128> Q-FUNK, well it's "first let's stop breaking user, then we can discuss"
[20:43] <chrisccoulson> Q-FUNK - we update firefox every 6 weeks. in adding a new extension to the archive, you're effectively committing me to spend extra time every 6 weeks for the next 5 years unbreaking, updating and testing it to keep it working with new versions of firefox
[20:43] <kenvandine> bdrung, jbicha did the hard work :)
[20:43] <chrisccoulson> not cool
[20:43] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I assume this is not an NPAPI plugin, right?
[20:44] <bdrung> kenvandine, jbicha: thanks for that. the default wallpaper are missing: bug #974628.
[20:44] <Q-FUNK> micahg: you're also making assumptions that are unverified.
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> micahg, it has a binary part that might be, but it also has a firefox extension
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> Q-FUNK, what assumptions?
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> i can assure you that extension is what broke your firefox localization
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> by installing itself in to a location that is meant to be a symlink
[20:45] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: ok, so why didn't you just file a bug, rather than get seb128 to remove the package?
[20:45] <micahg> Q-FUNK: we can't have random extensions in the archive as we can't be updating them every 6 weeks, if something is a pure NPAPI plugin, then it shouldn't break anything and should be fine, but even in those cases we have had some issues
[20:46] <Q-FUNK> micahg: the source package contains both a XUL extension and a NPAPI plug-in, packaged separately.
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> what functionality does the extension provide?
[20:46] <micahg> Q-FUNK: right, so one piece is ok and the other isn't :) (assuming the plugin is installed properly)
[20:48] <Q-FUNK> the XUL extension interfaces with opensc's one-pin module for website logon using PIN1.
[20:48] <Q-FUNK> the NPAPI plug-in inerfaces with libdigidocpp to enable legally-binding digital signature of online documents using PIN2.
[20:48]  * micahg will leave the rest here to chrisccoulson
[20:48] <jbicha> bdrung: I'm not so sure we should include old copies of *the* default wallpaper itself
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> note, i've just had a quick glance at the extension, and it would have even failed the basic preliminary review on addons.mozilla.org
[20:49] <Q-FUNK> micahg: it could indeed be that the plug-in is at the correct location, while he extension isn't. if that's the case, please just put the info in the bug and I'll upload a fix.
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> for polluting the main window global JS scope
[20:49] <chrisccoulson> quite a lot, too
[20:49] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: could be.  it needs to do a lot of backflips to interface with the card.
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> it needs to do that without polluting the main browser window scope though
[20:50] <bdrung> jbicha: it would be nice to be able to install the old default wallpaper. my favourite ubuntu default wallpaper is the one from hardy.
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> mozilla provide guidelines for avoiding that
[20:50] <chrisccoulson> but that can break firefox and other addons in extremely strange, unpredictable and hard-to-trace ways
[20:51] <bdrung> jbicha: they could either put to the ubuntu-wallpaper-* packages or into a separate package.
[20:51] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: upstream is quite active, as he is legally-bound to provide support by a public sector contract. if there's any such issue, I'm sure he'd love to hear about it.
[20:51] <SpamapS> jdstrand: hrm, I wonder why it build-deps but does not have a real dep .. argh!
[20:52] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: upstream happens to be online now on #esteid if you'd like to explain what you just told me.
[20:53] <chrisccoulson> Q-FUNK - 1 second. i'm just going to install it to make sure that's correct :)
[20:53] <jbicha> bdrung: I was thinking of a ubuntu-wallpapers-classic with the pre-karmic wallpapers, but for the lucid-precise series the wallpaper isn't changing much
[20:53] <jbicha> and I think the intended design is that the new tweaks replace the older version of the orangey-aubergine light thing
[20:54] <Q-FUNK> chrisccoulson: basically, I'm committed to maintaining the ubuntu package, while upstream is legally-bound to support his code. whatever's wrong, please let us know.
[20:54] <bdrung> jbicha: a ubuntu-wallpapers-classic package with the pre-karmic wallpapers sounds good.
[20:56] <jbicha> bdrung: I don't think I'll do the slideshow for them though, just the standalone images
[20:57] <bdrung> jbicha: creating a slideshow isn't that big deal
[20:57] <bdmurray> SpamapS: do you plan on working on bug 957494?
[21:06] <stgraber> smoser, slangasek: hmm, apparently I was wrong, something makes dhclient stick around when it's not called with -1, will have to dig some more to figure out where that's
[21:06] <bkerensa> cyphermox: you have a minute?
[21:06] <cyphermox> yeah
[21:06] <smoser> stgraber, thank you for looking at this.
[21:06] <slangasek> stgraber: ok
[21:06] <cyphermox> bkerensa: shoot :)
[21:06] <bkerensa> cyphermox: I hear you are the bt expert?
[21:06] <bkerensa> :D
[21:07] <cyphermox> I'd never call myself an expert at anything ;)
[21:07] <cyphermox> bkerensa: what do you want to know ?
[21:08] <bkerensa> cyphermox: well I have a bug basically I have a brand new Jabra Halo v2 that pairs fine in Ubuntu but does not function as a headset and wont show up in -> Sound Settings
[21:08] <bkerensa> and I am wondering who would be responsible for this kind of bug or at least works on these
[21:10] <bkerensa> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/972063
[21:11] <cyphermox> depends what bluez does with the headset; it might be bluez or pulseaudio. I'll update the bug accordingly
[21:12] <SpamapS> bdmurray: I hadn't looked closely at it since the initial comment. I do want to fix it.
[21:21] <bkerensa> cyphermox: the only thing that happens is if I press the button on the side of the headset it will mute my system sound and unmute but other than that no audio comes through and no sound settings profile is created
[21:22] <bkerensa> cyphermox: slangasek did some basic troubleshooting with me but I am more than willing to do more debug if need be to get it sorted
[21:22] <slangasek> the button working is irrelevant
[21:23] <slangasek> rather, it's irrelevant to audio, which is a pulseaudio+bluez problem
[21:23] <slangasek> the button works as a kernel input device
[21:23] <cyphermox> oh, that changes things
[21:23] <cyphermox> otoh, it means the device is properly paired and it's likely more of a pulseaudio issue than something with bluez
[21:23] <slangasek> yes
[21:25] <bkerensa> cyphermox: so basically I would love to work to try and debug this so whomever works on pulseaudio can perhaps make a crack at fixing it sometime in the future
[21:25] <bkerensa> :D
[21:44] <jjohansen> stgraber: so I can confirm i386 exhibits the same issue
[21:45] <stgraber> jjohansen: cool, thanks
[21:53] <skaet> We're now a week out from final freeze,  and are going to be freezing the archive, so that we can start to be selective about the fixes getting added.
[21:54] <cjwatson> slangasek: unicode.pf2> oh, what do you know, we still do that; but for some reason /boot/grub isn't preferred over /usr/share/grub for loading it
[21:55] <cjwatson> that's a bug I think
[21:55] <slangasek> ah :)
[21:55] <slangasek> does that mean we still don't know what's going on with reports of brokenness w/ crypted root?
[21:56] <slangasek> oh, of course - my / is encrypted and my /usr isn't
[21:56] <slangasek> so my experience is not going to be typical anyway here :P
[21:58] <cjwatson> well, I think loading that from /boot/grub would serve to render at least encrypted /usr closer to the standard case
[21:59] <slangasek> right
[22:14] <skaet> Please continue to upload fixes,  and allert the release team members in #ubuntu-release for seeded image package fix issues,  and #ubuntu-motu channel for unseeded universe package issues.
[22:54] <apw> q2
[23:18] <cnd> slangasek, I'm down with a fever :(
[23:18]  * kees hugs cnd
[23:19] <cnd> kees is now infected too
[23:20] <kees> only virtually
[23:33] <SpamapS> kees: Hey, you know about md and udev.. any ideas on what adding this rule into the mdadm package might do to peoples' raid arrays? http://paste.ubuntu.com/916749/ ?
[23:43] <kees> SpamapS: one sec, reading...
[23:43] <kees> SpamapS: er, is this an entirely new file?
[23:45] <SpamapS> kees: it would be /lib/udev/rules.d/64-md-raid.rules
[23:45] <SpamapS> kees: we haven't been installing it since jaunty
[23:46]  * kees studies
[23:46] <SpamapS> kees: I think its just missing due to an oversight
[23:46] <SpamapS> my udev knowledge is very weak.. :-P
[23:52] <psusi> SpamapS, we seem to be shipping 65-mdadm-blkid.rules instead
[23:52] <kees> SpamapS: so, the first section is handled (more correctly) by 85-mdadm.rules
[23:52] <psusi> and that one
[23:53] <kees> SpamapS: and the rest, as psusi says, is in 65-mdadm-blkid.rules
[23:53] <SpamapS> interesting
[23:53] <SpamapS> ok, this is an upstream file
[23:53] <SpamapS> so it looks like we split it up already
[23:53] <kees> (which is also more correct)
[23:53] <psusi> yea.. also it looks like the upstream one is trying to use mdadm to activate intel fakeraid and ddf, which we still have handled by dmraid
[23:54] <SpamapS> I think I'll keep the upstream one out of the package then
[23:54] <SpamapS> psusi: this came up when I was solving the mdmon missing problem
[23:54] <psusi> though someone yesterday had some trouble with intel fakeraid and it looked like mdadm had tried to activate it in the installer
[23:54] <SpamapS> mdadm is still quite a mess IMO..
[23:55] <SpamapS> Certainly better, as we're at least up to date with upstream
[23:55] <psusi> upstream still hasn't sorted out how to deal with the problems introducing support for ddf and intel fakeraid causes... namely mdadm now conflicts with dmraid since both can handle those arrays
[23:57] <SpamapS> alright, well for this particular fix, I'm just going to keep this file out of rules, but include mdmon and its corresponding manpage. Is mdmon at all part of the ddf/fakeraid case?
[23:58] <psusi> yes... apparently its a daemon that updates the on disk metadata on behalf of the kernel
[23:58] <psusi> for the new external metadata types
[23:59] <psusi> it's required to get the array mounted read/write... and it seems there's a kernel BUG_ON that gets triggered without it... sounds like they assumed it would be there and didn't deal with it when it isn't...


 Sooo quiet
 Indeed
 Busy week for me
 Yo
 Ha, thats old
 I have been able to do that for months
 Still new to me
 :)
 Just flashed this yesterday
 @Ivoriesablaze
 I like this @KMyers
 Nice


[00:01] <cprofitt> anyone home
[00:01] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-common/+bug/981019
[00:05] <Sarvatt> cprofitt: reporting it on http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14 is going to be a lot more effective, we just ship their binary drivers, its not like we can fix it
[00:05] <cprofitt> Sarvatt: not sure it is 100% their driver though...
[00:05] <cprofitt> I reverted back to 295.20 and still had issues... the problem may be with kernel or xorg
[00:05] <Sarvatt> if its fine with nouveau like the bug says its pretty clear cut, but that bug is very vague
[00:05] <cprofitt> just not sure how to proceed to triage
[00:06] <cprofitt> I can use Unity 2D with the driver just fine as well... it appears to be something with 3D
[00:07] <cprofitt> when I rever to 295.20 Unity 3D works better, but 3D games still end up looking like slideshows
[00:09] <cprofitt> Is there any thing I can do to help sort that out?
[00:10] <Sarvatt> 295.xx is a longterm release and will be updated many times in the future in 12.04, might be worth switching to nvidia-current-updates so you get future updates automatically now. but yeah that bug is basically "i have problems with 295.xx" so of course people will click it too if they do and its not going to go anywhere, a distinct bug for your issue will be more useful with actual apport info listing what gpu you have and stuff. its certainly not
[00:10] <Sarvatt> a widespread problem and might be specific to your gpu
[00:11] <Sarvatt> but if you want it fixed for real reporting it on that forum directly to nvidia is the way to go
[00:11] <cprofitt> alright... I am going to reinstall -- fresh install... then update... then if the problem persists I will follow the steps in the nvidia forums
[00:12] <cprofitt> thanks
[00:12] <Sarvatt> i didnt help, but no worries, its the sad reality with the binary drivers :(
[00:13] <Sarvatt> I did see that 295.40 has issues on old IGP nvidias from the reports, you have one of those?
[00:13] <Sarvatt> like 6150
[00:14] <Sarvatt> or 7100
[00:15] <Sarvatt> oh hmm 7050 i guess it is
[00:15] <cnd> Sarvatt, yay!
[00:15] <cprofitt> I have an 8800 GTS 320
[00:16] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/980672
[00:16] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/980879
[00:16] <cprofitt> finding some more bugs with this
[00:16] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-core/+bug/980521
[00:17] <Sarvatt> yeah i'm actually seeing lots of bugs about 295.40 now that i'm looking, i think they rushed out the update for the security fix too fast :)
[00:17] <cprofitt> yeah... looking like it...
[00:18] <cprofitt> not sure why reverting to 295.20 still caused me issues, but a fresh install will help me troubleshoot
[00:18] <cprofitt> the text box had been an upgrade from 11.10
[00:19] <Sarvatt> you might have to purge nvidia, then install 295.20 to work right, but im not sure about that
[00:19] <cprofitt> yeah... reading that now...
[00:19] <Sarvatt> not sure downgrades work properly, the packaging for nvidia is nuts and lots of room for things to go wrong
[00:19] <cprofitt> the install is already in progress though...
[00:21] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/980298
[00:21] <Sarvatt> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/295.20-0ubuntu1 the debs are there if you click the amd64/i386 links
[00:21] <cprofitt> there are times it becomes a mess just to find related things in LP
[00:21] <Sarvatt> i use google to find things on launchpad, thats pretty sad :)
[00:21] <cprofitt> that is why I don't file bugs until I have a great deal of certainty as to what it is
[00:21] <cprofitt> lol -- me too
[00:22] <cprofitt> at least some of these folks are getting errors... I was just getting 'slow'
[00:23] <Sarvatt> well slow is a different issue so safe to assume the crashes arent related to your problem
[00:24]  * cprofitt nods
[00:25] <Sarvatt> honestly if you reported it on nvnews forums it will get the highest possible chance of getting fixed in the next driver release, we only engage nvidia over issues about new platforms not working, something like 8800gts specifically being abnormally slow might not get noticed on launchpad
[00:26]  * cprofitt nods
[00:26] <Sarvatt> but it would still be worth reporting on launchpad, maybe theres an issue with how it was installed causing it that we could notice
[00:27] <Sarvatt> ubuntu-bug nvidia-graphics-drivers only takes 30 seconds to do
[00:27] <cprofitt> I will do that after the reinstall -- if the issue is still present... and will report via the nvidia forums as well.
[01:15] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, what are the nature of the bugs?
[01:18] <bjsnider> not having any trouble with my gt520 yet
[01:18] <cprofitt> I can't speak to the others...
[01:19] <cprofitt> my issue was the update that I did today caused Unity 3D to be non-functional with Nvidia 295.40
[01:19] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: sounds like if you hit whatever cprofitt is hitting you would notice, super slow 3D
[01:19] <cprofitt> I just reinstalled and updated only the nvidia driver
[01:19] <cprofitt> Unity was useable -- testing a game now
[01:19] <cprofitt> then will update the rest to see if the issue comes back
[01:19] <cprofitt> there is a chance something was latent due to it being an upgrade from 11.10
[01:20] <bjsnider> well, maybe it's a compiz issue, because i'm using mutter
[01:20] <bjsnider> is all opengl slow?
[01:23] <cprofitt> yes, it seems to be... games were slow as well
[01:23] <cprofitt> I used Unity 2D and launched games they had issues
[01:29] <cprofitt> interesting... no issues on initial install of 12.04 Beta 2... and upgrade of 295.40 drivers only
[01:34] <cprofitt> exiting the game caused some issues though... took about 20 seconds to redraw the desktop
[01:37] <RAOF> hyperair: Yo!  Did you end up sending something to xorg-devel@ about the coasting scroll thing?
[01:38] <Sarvatt> the person who wrote the patch did
[01:38] <Sarvatt> RAOF: guessing you're referring to the coasting thing?
[01:39] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Yes.
[01:40] <Sarvatt> yah check out the "[PATCH synaptics] Fix coasting speed" thread, whot merged it but was waiting on the signoff before pushing from what i saw
[01:42] <RAOF> Yeah, we've pulled that into precise.
[01:43] <RAOF> But the initial patch seemed wrong, and hyperair fixed it.  I'm not sure if that problem was in the patch on the list, though.
[01:47] <Sarvatt> he certainly didnt mark it as such in the actual patch if so
[01:48] <cprofitt> Sarvatt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/982710
[01:53] <Sarvatt> cprofitt: long shot but maybe try adding Option "UseEvents" "True" to the device section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[01:55] <RAOF> cprofitt: Does the same problem happen with the 295.33 drivers?  There's at least one known performance hit (in rare cases) to the security fix that went in to .40
[01:57] <cprofitt> RAOF: I have not reverted this install yet, but I did my previous one and the performance issue got slightly better, but there was still an issue
[01:57] <cprofitt> Sarvatt: will try that
[01:59] <Sarvatt> i dont see any NVIDIA(1): WAIT's in the logs that i had when that helped me with on my last nvidia 8xxx machine so its really a random guess
[02:00] <cprofitt> random guesses are worthy of a try
[02:00] <cprofitt> seems like a rock and a hard place right now
[02:01] <cprofitt> do not want a security hole... but do not want people to find fault with the new release based on Nvidia drivers
[02:04] <RAOF> To be clear: I don't think it's particularly likely that the security fix is the cause of performance problems; AFAIK it just interfered with some infrequently used 3D paths on some cards.
[02:05] <cprofitt> Sarvatt: that setting resulted in a black screen and no login
[02:05] <cprofitt> removed it and got to login screen
[02:16] <cprofitt> gah... can't register on the NVnews forums
[02:16] <cprofitt> page not found error
[02:16] <cprofitt> :-)
[02:40] <bjsnider> cprofitt, how does nouveau work?
[02:43] <cprofitt> bjsnider: it worked fine for Unity
[02:43] <cprofitt> I did not test it with games -- not sure it is supposed to work there
[02:46] <bjsnider> itmight
[02:46] <cprofitt> I will test that as well
[03:20] <hyperair> RAOF: er whoops, i forgot to.
[03:20] <cprofitt> thanks everyone... gotta get some sleep so I can work in the AM
[03:20] <cprofitt> have a great day, night, morning
[03:20] <RAOF> hyperair: :)
[03:21] <RAOF> hyperair: Just to be clear, the changes you made were in HandleScrolling, right?
[03:21] <hyperair> RAOF: i'm not subscribed to the list. could you help me forward it please? :-)
[03:21] <RAOF> hyperair: Of course.
[03:22] <hyperair> RAOF: yeah, you could just do an interdiff to see the changes
[03:22] <hyperair> there's only one extra hunk
[03:22] <hyperair> i just amended the way the coasting_friction was deducted from the speed.
[03:22] <Sarvatt> it got applied and pushed now like it was sent upstream, if theres a problem it needs a new patch :)
[03:22] <hyperair> i see
[03:23] <Sarvatt> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics/commit/?id=5a1612d4496b51682c9043aa064025c545249de6
[03:40] <hyperair> Sarvatt: http://paste.debian.net/163369/
[03:40] <hyperair> RAOF: ^
[03:40] <hyperair> so that's the amended patch =)
[03:42] <hyperair> hmm since it now actually has my name on it, i guess i should send it to xorg-devel myself..
[03:43] <RAOF> Would be easier, yes.
[03:43] <RAOF> You'll need to add a signed-off-by tag, too.
[03:44] <hyperair> ah. shit.
[03:44] <hyperair> it's already sent.
[03:44] <hyperair> ¬_¬"
[03:44] <hyperair> now what?
[03:48] <Sarvatt> hyperair: reply with Signed-off-by: Chow Loong Jin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:48] <Sarvatt> or whatever
[03:49] <hyperair> nevermind that, thunderbird broke my patch >_>
[03:49] <hyperair> i'll just resend it as an attachment
[03:50] <Sarvatt> looks fine to me
[03:50] <hyperair> yeah, it looks fine, until you try to git am
[03:50] <hyperair> then git complains of a broken patch
[03:52] <Sarvatt> oh yeah malformed
[03:52] <Sarvatt> git send-email works really well with gmail now easily
[03:53] <hyperair> hmm really
[03:53] <hyperair> i should try that next time
[03:53] <Sarvatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/932043/ in ~/.gitconfig
[03:54] <hyperair> hmmm can i not specify my password there?
[03:54] <hyperair> i transplant the .gitconfig around
[03:55] <RAOF> Yeah, if you don't specify the password it'll prompt for it.
[03:55] <hyperair> okay
[03:55] <Sarvatt> oh cool
[03:56] <Sarvatt> it used to be a PITA setting up mstmp for gmail access in git send-email but its super easy now
[03:57] <Sarvatt> not sure what you use for @debian.org but heard ya moaning about gmail in evolution earlier so figured it might be that :)
[04:03] <hyperair> actually come to think of it, i have postfix installed...
[04:03] <hyperair> which directly hooks up to gmail
[04:04] <hyperair> and yeah, i use gmail for my @debian.org.
[04:04] <Sarvatt> you didn't pick no config at the debconf prompt when you installed devscripts and inherited postfix?!
[04:05]  * Sarvatt hates doing that on every system :)
[04:07] <Sarvatt> i have >500k emails in my gmail so i totally feel your pain wrt evolution
[04:07] <hyperair> haha
[04:07] <hyperair> well i installed postfix out of curiosity
[04:07] <hyperair> and then found out it could send via gmail using sasl
[04:07] <hyperair> so there we go =)
[04:08] <Sarvatt> oh so you already had an MTA, lucky. i could care less about having a MTA installed just to use debuild :)
[04:27] <hyperair> debuild?
[04:27] <hyperair> did debuild need an MTA?
[04:27] <hyperair> i use sbuild though
[04:28] <hyperair> and there were a crapton of other things that needed an MTA, which i couldn't remember
[04:28] <hyperair> er right, like my cron jobs
[12:05] <cprofitt> reported the Nvidia driver problem on the nvnews.net forums now
[12:05] <cprofitt> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2546106
[12:06] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/982762
[12:06] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-updates/+bug/982485
[12:06] <cprofitt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/982710
[13:17] <tseliot> cprofitt: I've replied to your email about it
[13:17] <cprofitt> tseliot: thanks
[13:18] <cprofitt> I will try to get that additional file for you when I get home
[13:19] <tseliot> thanks
[13:54] <tjaalton> bryceh: back to the drawing board with the wacom touchscreen patch :) upstream committed this http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=e40cb71a910164d1cb2c366d3c001eeaac79aaaf but if that alone doesn't fix it we'd need debug logs to figure out why gsd_wacom_device_is_screen_tablet was zero there
[13:59] <tjaalton> bryceh: so, since you have an actual device, could you post debug logs from g-s-d to the bug?
[13:59] <tjaalton> if you have time
[13:59] <tjaalton> I'll reopen it
[13:59] <seb128> bug #943880
[13:59] <seb128> is somebody working on that issue?
[14:00] <tjaalton> I think cnd was
[14:00] <seb128> it's showing up in the top retraced bugs
[14:00] <seb128> I've added a precise milestone to it
[14:03] <cnd> seb128, no one knows what it is
[14:03] <cnd> it looks to be some corruption, but I can't reproduce it
[14:03] <cnd> valgrind doesn't show anything either
[14:03] <seb128> cnd, ok, well I guess the precise milestone still makes sense in any case, that's a bug we will want to SRU fix if we get a fix at some point
[14:04] <cnd> yeah
[16:33] <bryceh> Sarvatt, regarding regressions from 295.40, we don't seem to have very many new bugs filed against nvidia-graphics-drivers
[16:33] <bryceh> wherre does nvidia-current-updates_hybrid.conf come from?
[16:34] <Sarvatt> nvidia-common
[16:34] <bryceh> well, I can see that :-)  but I mean why is it there?  is this from alberto's hybrid graphics work?
[16:35] <Sarvatt> yeah, i dont know what its doing :)
[16:37] <bryceh> bug 981048 implies it isn't getting removed on nvidia disable, making the system unbootable
[16:37]  * mlankhorst has a hacky setup that basically does the same :x
[16:38] <bryceh> since we're not yet advertising hybrid support, wondering if this should be disabled.  if it ends up being flimsy, then is going to be tough to support post-release
[16:38] <Sarvatt> huh? i thought nvidia-current-updates_hybrid.conf would be part of the hybrid-detect part but its installing the blacklist as nvidia-current-updates_hybrid.conf?
[16:39] <Sarvatt> i guess hybrid-detect is writing out a new blacklist outside of the package
[16:40] <bryceh> eek
[16:42] <Sarvatt> dont see it doing that looking at it though, its just calling update-alternatives to switch
[16:42] <bryceh> hmm
[16:42] <Sarvatt> what the heck is nvidia-current-updates_hybrid.conf
[16:43] <kklimonda> what does hybrid-detect do?
[16:43] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/956091 is the same bug
[16:43] <mlankhorst> yikes
[16:43] <Sarvatt> where is this _hybrid suffix coming from?
[16:44] <bryceh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/HybridGraphics
[16:44] <bryceh> unfortunately that page doesn't document the _hybrid bits
[16:44] <bryceh> but I propose we add Q's there for alberto to fill in
[16:46] <Sarvatt> the alternatives setting up the modprobe.d conf file to /etc dont know about whatever this _hybrid.conf version is so its getting left there
[16:47] <kklimonda> ah, interesting - I've wrote something similar to switch betwee nvidia and virtualbox gfx, but put it into initramfs as it seemed easier to avoid potential race between changing gpu and launching lightdm
[16:47] <Sarvatt> i dont see hybrid-detect setting any thing special up there, its just calling update-alternatives and ldconfig to switch between mesa and nvidia if the gpu changes since the last boot
[16:48] <Sarvatt> tseliot: any clues whats going on?
[16:49] <kklimonda> ah, I can see how starting works now - clever little thing, I wonder if systemd has something similar
[16:49] <tseliot> Sarvatt: doesn't it work if you remove the package with --purge?
[16:49] <Sarvatt> oh ok nvidia changed a bit, ./debian/rules:               $(CURDIR)/debian/$(PKG_driver)$(sysconfdir)/modprobe.d/$(PKG_driver)_hybrid.conf
[16:50] <tseliot> oh and in the postrm I have rm -f /etc/modprobe.d/#DRIVERNAME#_hybrid.conf
[16:52] <tseliot> this was introduced in 295.33-0ubuntu1
[16:52] <tseliot> to fix bug #958848
[16:57] <Sarvatt> i wonder if they are installing from a ppa without that change, the postrm looks right to me
[16:57] <Sarvatt> and i cant find any version info in the bug
[16:59] <bryceh> Sarvatt, yeah both the bug and dupe were filed against jockey which (ironically) doesn't include version info for nvidia
[16:59] <Sarvatt> but that doesnt make sense, 295.40 went into precise right away
[16:59] <Sarvatt> installing nvidia and removing it to see if i can reproduce
[17:02] <Sarvatt> both apt-get remove and apt-get purge removed it but i can't test jockey deactivate because no nvidias here
[17:03] <Sarvatt> err, i guess it only happens on actual hybrids even? lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root   47 Apr 16 13:00 nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf -> /etc/alternatives/i386-linux-gnu_nvidia_modconf
[17:09] <Sarvatt> bryceh: oh rereading it and the key word is disabled
[17:09] <Sarvatt>   * debian/rules:
[17:09] <Sarvatt>     - Make sure that nouveau is blacklisted even when nvidia
[17:09] <Sarvatt>       is disabled. This is necessary in order to get hybrid
[17:09] <Sarvatt>       graphics to work.
[17:09] <Sarvatt> sounds like tseliot intentionally did that
[17:11] <tseliot> Sarvatt: yes, otherwise nvidia couldn't be loaded
[17:11] <bryceh> ah
[17:11] <bryceh> hmm
[17:12] <tseliot> and I can't rebuild the initramfs on boot after blacklisting nouveau and require a reboot ;)
[17:13] <tseliot> Sarvatt: if the file is removed both with and without --purge I guess your problem is solved as Jockey simply calls apt-get remove
[17:13] <tseliot> through libapt
[17:13] <Sarvatt> tseliot: the file isnt even getting installed here
[17:13] <Sarvatt> thats why remove/purge works
[17:14] <tseliot> Sarvatt: can you try apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-current
[17:14] <tseliot> or, even better, purge it and then install it again
[17:15] <tseliot> if the file is removed when the package is upgraded then something's wrong
[17:15] <Sarvatt> i just did that but trying again
[17:17] <Sarvatt> now i have the _hybrid one, wth!
[17:17] <tseliot> :)
[17:17] <tseliot> the mysteries of apt... ;)
[17:18] <tseliot> I should probably make sure that the file is there, somehow...
[17:18] <tseliot> but I wouldn't know how to reproduce it
[17:20] <Sarvatt> well a lot of people are complaining because they can't use bumblebee now because of it
[17:20] <Sarvatt> by a lot i mean 1 that i've seen
[17:40] <tseliot> Sarvatt: :)
[17:41] <tseliot> Sarvatt: why? Does Bumblebee use nouveau?
[17:41] <tseliot> I thought it used intel + nvidia
[17:42] <jcristau> i thought it used duct tape
[17:42] <tseliot> that should work too :P
[17:42]  * mlankhorst doesn't know ;s
[17:44]  * tseliot -> dinner
[18:15] <cprofitt> Sarvatt: is there anything else I need on the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/982710
[18:16] <cprofitt> I looked at the triage documentation and did not see anything special for video cards...
[18:16] <cprofitt> so marked it triaged... but if you see something that is needed please let me know
[18:18] <cprofitt> thanks again for you assistance yesterday
[18:26] <bryceh> cprofitt, you should mention the gpu lockup on your report to the upstream forum
[18:27] <bryceh> cprofitt, I assume you did a purge and reinstall?
[18:40] <tjaalton> bryceh: forgot to git add the xserver patch?
[18:42] <tjaalton> ah no, it was added earlier
[18:43] <tjaalton> is that patch upstream?
[18:45] <tjaalton> assuming it isn't, added a note to the bug
[18:48] <bryceh> tjaalton, drive-by contrib presumably
[18:57] <tjaalton> right
[18:58] <bryceh> if he doesn't send it in, I'll try to remember to forward them later.  there's a handful of other nullptr patches in our tree that should go up.
[18:58] <bryceh> tjaalton, I quit bothering sending them in when peter kept rejecting them as "just papering over problems"  ;-)
[18:59] <tjaalton> bryceh: yeah, the next cycle would be great time to try again :)
[18:59] <bryceh> tjaalton, what I think we may want to do is once 12.10 opens, any of the nullptrs that look like they got fixed some other way upstream, drop the patches and see if the bugs come back.  They'll be trivial enough to diagnose if they come back.
[18:59] <tjaalton> yeah
[19:00] <cprofitt> bryceh: I actually did a purge and reinstall... then a complete fresh install and only installed the video driver
[19:01] <bryceh> cprofitt, ok
[19:02] <bryceh> cprofitt, I think next step may be to wait on word from your upstreamed bug (thanks for doing that)
[19:02] <bryceh> cprofitt, sounds like workaround is to downgrade to .33 or .20?
[19:07] <cprofitt> bryceh: yep -- going to try that as well... though may not get to it tonight -- Cub Scouts (I am the lucky Den Leader)
[19:07] <cprofitt> by the way you guys in here have been fantastic... it is much appreciated.
[19:08] <bryceh> cprofitt, Be Prepared!
[19:08]  * cprofitt smiles
[19:08] <cprofitt> yep
[19:40] <jcristau> cnd: do you plan on sending the displayid patch to keithp?
[19:40] <jcristau> err displayfd
[19:42] <cnd> jcristau, he's Cc'd
[19:43] <cnd> do I need to do anything else?
[19:45] <jcristau> hmm.  usually not.
[19:47] <Sarvatt> RAOF: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.devel/29956
[21:00] <FernandoMiguel> boua noute
[21:10] <bryceh> Sarvatt, bug #982889 is another "X starting faster than drm is ready" bug, but with -intel
[21:11] <Sarvatt> [     2.441]
[21:11] <Sarvatt> X.Org X Server 1.11.3
[21:11] <Sarvatt> are you freaking kidding me?
[21:12]  * Sarvatt drools on that person's SSD speed :)
[21:13] <bryceh> and it's done by 2.555
[21:13] <bryceh> 0.1sec X.org
[21:14] <Sarvatt> lightdm used to try starting x on 6 displays before giving up but it changed to just 1, sure would be nice to get that old functionality back to avoid these bugs since i have no clue how to fix it in the upstart scripts
[21:18] <bryceh> it's an Intel Z68 board
[21:19] <bryceh> wonder if he's OCing it
[21:30] <Sarvatt> i915 is ready 2.76 seconds in, x gives up 2.55, sheesh
[21:38] <bryceh> Sarvatt, having lightdm retry 6 times seems a bit hacky
[21:38] <bryceh> Sarvatt, I think upstart is the best way to do it, but if it can't be done that way, and if having lightdm do it is too hacky, could we just put the retry into X itself?
[21:39] <bryceh> whereever it's trying to load the drm driver, if it isn't there make it sleep 1 sec, try again, repeat 5-10 times before giving up?
[22:17] <bryceh> hmm, ok apparently ^that is the way to do it, as per slangasek and apw.
[22:20] <apw> bryceh, i am not sure how long the load can take, i'd probabally do a couple immediaitly before any sleeping
[22:20] <apw> bryceh, it would cirtainly be good to know it was that EAGAIN you were hitting either way
[22:21] <bryceh> apw, unfortunately I *think* the code that loads the kernel module is in the ddx drivers
[22:21] <bryceh> in which case, this'd be doable for -intel but no go on the blobs
[22:29] <bryceh> ok, looks like the logic in question is in libdrm.  hrm.
[23:10] <Sarvatt> looks like cprofitt isnt the only one http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?70452-Did-The-NVIDIA-295-40-Linux-Driver-Fall-Off-A-Cliff&p=258872#post258872
[23:17] <bjsnider> just with the 8800gts?
[23:36] <Sarvatt> yeah looks like old IGP ones are busted, and 320mb versions of 8800gts are slow from all the reports
[23:57] <Sarvatt> cnd: any way to disable the 4 finger tap gesture?
[23:57] <cnd> Sarvatt, not that I know of
[23:57] <Sarvatt> i'm bringing up the dash just from 2 finger scrolling too much
[23:57] <cnd> why?
[23:57] <cnd> hmm...
[23:57] <cnd> that's odd
[23:57] <cnd> are you accidentally touches with four fingers?
[23:57] <cnd> touching*
[23:57] <Sarvatt> probably because i use the middle and ring fingers and the pinky and index are hovering over the pad
[23:58] <Sarvatt> yeah accidental 4 finger tap


[02:04] <xubuntu963> Hello!  I need help upgrading Ubuntu 8.04 to XUbuntu 12.04
[02:04] <xubuntu963> I would really like to get on Skype with someone who can talk me through it
[02:04] <xubuntu963> Any takers?
[02:05] <Unit193> !eolupgrades
[02:16] <xubuntu963> I am specifically looking to upgrade my EOL Ubuntu 8.04 to XUbuntu 12.04.  I have Xubuntu on a CD.  But don't know what to do next.  I want to make a fresh install of XUbuntu in place of the old Ubuntu system
[02:17] <xubuntu963> I need step-by-step cookbook instructions but everything I'm finding implies knowledge I don't possess.
[02:17] <xubuntu963> Which is why I'd like to Skype chat with someone who can talk me through it
[02:18] <Unit193> Well, it's pretty documented on the wiki, though if you have any targetted questions we're here.
[02:23] <xubuntu963> OK on the Wiki, but not finding any links to specific info on how to do what I want to do
[02:24] <Unit193> !purexfce
[02:25] <maitake> oh wicked link
[02:25] <maitake> i usually go sudo crazy and de-junkify my install
[02:26] <Unit193> Yep, pity it hasn't been updated for raring, and there's generally cruft to clean out from home too.
[02:27] <maitake> yeah it's okay
[02:27] <maitake> mostly under the hood stuff anyway
[02:27] <xubuntu963> this isn't going to work, need to talk to someone live
[02:28] <maitake> for me i've found peace with xubuntu + compiz + docky.. got a super sexy minimalist desktop going right now that is absolutely fantastic to use
[02:28] <maitake> macOS has nothing on this setup
[02:28] <Unit193> xubuntu963: So, would a reinstall with Xubuntu work?
[02:29] <xubuntu963> It probably would, If I had any clue as to how to go about doing it.
[02:30] <xubuntu963> I need the steps one-at-a-time, with everything explained and no prior knowledge assumed because there isn't any
[02:30] <Unit193> Basically, download the ISO, burn to disk, boot, install.
[02:30] <Unit193> !install
[02:30] <xubuntu963> I unstalled Ubuntu in 2006 and upgraded once to 8.04, and haven't done anything like it since
[02:31] <xubuntu963> You're saying !install -- what is that and what do I do with it
[02:31] <Unit193> It's a trigger for the bot to link you to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation
[02:32] <maitake> I will say that i've had been luck installing Xubuntu rather than doing what I thought would be more ideal: installing ubuntu minimal and sudo apt-get installing xubuntu-desktop
[02:32] <xubuntu963> it is not referring to XUbuntu
[02:33] <xubuntu963> Nobody here is on Skype?
[03:51] <xubuntu326> spanish?
[03:51] <Unit193> !es | xubuntu326
[03:51] <xubuntu326> thanks
[03:52] <Unit193> Sure.
[05:17] <xubuntu516> привет всем. Кто нибудь может посоветовать, как запретить xubuntu включать блютуз при запуске? Я им просто не пользуюсь, а система автоматом включает
[05:17] <Unit193> !ru | xubuntu516
[05:18] <xubuntu516> ок
[06:09] <bitbox> any GRUB/MBR/BIOS gurus in house?
[06:16] <xGrind> bitbox, hi
[09:30] <Noskcaj10> I've somehow accidentally disabled the shortcuts to swap workspaces, How do i find the shortcuts?
[09:32] <cfhowlett> Noskcaj10, settings>Keyboard>Application shortcuts
[09:33] <Noskcaj10> cfhowlett, Since nothing there says "switcher", i assume i deleted them
[09:33] <cfhowlett> Noskcaj10, try resetting to defaults??
[09:34] <Noskcaj10> done, but the switcher shortcuts still don't work
[09:35] <cfhowlett> Noskcaj10, sorry then.  I don't know how to reset, but your shortcuts would be in your /home somewhere ... probably a .hidden file
[09:35] <Noskcaj10> I'll have to keep looking then, thanks
[09:36] <Sysi> Noskcaj10: window manager settings
[09:37] <cfhowlett> Sysi, nice one!  didn't even think to look there.
[09:38] <Noskcaj10> Sysi, thanks, i just realised my problem too. I made the two workspaces stacked, rather than side by side
[09:38] <Sysi> important message http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html (sorry, it's not about xubuntu support)
[09:38] <Noskcaj10> by now, i think we've all seen that 500 times
[09:39] <Sysi> hope so
[11:56] <akovia> Hi, I keep having troubles with my usb mouse locking up. It could be a hardware issue, (not sure) but I'm looking for a way to reset it without rebooting.
[11:57] <bekks> akovia: Did you change the batteries yet?
[11:57] <akovia> The solution I found by searching was to sudo /etc/init.d/hotplug restart, but hotplug doesn't exist on my machine
[11:57] <akovia> no batteries
[11:58] <akovia> btw, I'm on 12.04LTS with my mouse plugged directly into my usb
[12:03] <akovia> I wonder why hotplug isn't installed, is this an xubuntu thing? Is there an equivalent command I could try?
[12:05] <bekks> Wasnt hotplug replaced by udev, very long ago?
[12:11] <akovia> i don't know, most info I can find on resetting a mouse only refers to hotplug. I will search using udev and see what I get
[12:14] <akovia> of course ubuntiforums is down =/
[12:15] <knome> akovia, you should be able to access most of the pages cached via google though
[12:15] <akovia> i am, just a pain
[12:16] <akovia> still not getting any hits on just resetting mouse though
[12:16] <akovia> still looking
[12:17] <akovia> what's strange is that my mouse is plugged into my keyboard but it never stops funvtioning
[12:18] <akovia> inserting any usb device after the mouse quits doesn't do anything, no matter what usb port I use
[12:19] <akovia> which leads me to think it's a usb driver problem. resetting it, even if I figure how, is only a temp fix. I wish I could figure out how to troubleshoot it further
[12:20] <bekks> Then your USB bus freaks out, not your mouse.
[12:20] <bekks> Sounds like faulty hardware.
[12:20] <akovia> might be, just curious why everything else in the bus still functions when it happens
[12:30] <UnHolyTerror> akovia, have you tried plugging mouse directly to computer instead?
[12:30] <akovia> Just tried that, guess I won't know anything unless it fails again.
[12:31] <akovia> just wanted to look for a way to recover it if/when it fails since rebooting is such a pita
[12:32] <akovia> guess I can try sudo reload udev
[12:32] <UnHolyTerror> What version xubuntu are you using?
[12:32] <akovia> 12.04lts
[12:33] <UnHolyTerror> Unity?
[12:33] <akovia> no
[12:34] <UnHolyTerror> no, duh... find System->Preferences->Keyboard
[12:34] <akovia> ?
[12:35] <akovia> i'm there
[13:06] <xubuntu077> hi. I cannot install opera browser on xubuntu 13.04.
[13:09] <torax> xubuntu077: what did you tried to do?
[13:09] <xubuntu077> I dowloaded deb package then tried with deb installer , terminal but
[13:09] <xubuntu077> ı cant
[13:10] <xubuntu077> in software center there inst any package of opera too
[13:11] <torax> what happens when you just double-click on the .deb ?
[13:11] <xubuntu077> ıt says broken pack
[13:14] <xubuntu247> hi, is thre anybody around?
[13:15] <baizon> hi xubuntu247
[13:17] <xubuntu247> hi, I was wondering which distribution of ubuntu to download for my old pc. it's ad AMD at aroung 600Mhz (not sure, I need to double check). can you help me?
[13:18] <baizon> xubuntu247: http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ <- there you have "Minimum system requirements"
[13:19] <baizon> xubuntu247: else you can try Lubuntu (system requirements are here-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu )
[13:21] <xubuntu247> grat thanks :) would it be possible to get ubuntu aswel?
[13:21] <xubuntu247> but main question: may be possible to install it from ad usb device?
[13:22] <baizon> xubuntu247: you can install every *ubuntu from a usb drive
[13:23] <baizon> xubuntu247: not really, you need at least a 700MHz CPU (source: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements )
[13:24] <xubuntu247> ok, no problem! should I boot the system from usb to install it from there? my problem is that I cannot load windows since I forgot the admin password.
[13:25] <baizon> xubuntu247: yes
[13:25] <baizon> you can boot from the usb drive
[13:26] <baizon> but you have to create it first of course
[13:26] <xubuntu247> so I only have to download it and move the dowload to an usb and start the old desktop from the usb drive right?!
[13:28] <baizon> xubuntu247: no, you have to do it like this... http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows
[13:29] <xubuntu247> wonderful! thanks a million!! :)
[13:30] <baizon> no problem :)
[13:55] <akovia> Thanks for the help UnHolyTerror!
[14:05] <xubuntu592> hello xubuntu kicks a**
[14:05] <knome> !language | xubuntu592
[14:06] <xubuntu592> sorry super bot with chipset brain
[14:07] <xubuntu592> all asleep dudes
[14:07] <xubuntu592> *faaaaaart!!!!!!
[14:08] <xubuntu592> still all asleep????
[14:08] <Unit193> Did you have a support question?
[14:09] <xubuntu592> no sorry, oh yeah gma500 video card i can't get descent playback youtube awfull
[14:10] <xubuntu592> but i know poulsbo and stuff
[14:10] <xubuntu592> but i got the sound problem fix with searches
[14:11] <Unit193> You check for Additional Drivers in the Software Sources application?
[14:12] <xubuntu592> technology asks too much ressources we should reduce ressources instead of making more
[14:13] <knome> xubuntu438, would you please concentrate on the support issues on this channel? if you want to have random chatter, join #xubuntu-offtopic
[14:13] <xubuntu592> no imo xubuntu 13.04 are good just add -vaapi but doesn't fix youtube
[14:15] <xubuntu592> im going off topic
[14:15] <xubuntu438> hello i have intel graphics media accelerator x3100 but i dont have the drivers for xubuntu . can anyone have a download link?
[14:16] <Unit193> xubuntu438: Hey, you should check the Drivers tab of "Software Sources"
[14:17] <xubuntu438> and after that?
[14:24] <UnHolyTerror> xubuntu438, https://01.org/linuxgraphics/
[14:40] <keijo_> how i can give full permissions for Firefox? i need addons etc..
[14:41] <knome> keijo_, you should be able to install addons to firefox from the addons manager normally
[14:45] <keijo_> knome: last night i try xubuntu first time and i couldent
[14:46] <knome> keijo_, what was the error message?
[14:47] <keijo_> i didnt have right to install addons ..
[14:48] <keijo_> im reinstalling now and i try again
[15:10] <keijo_> Plugin findr
[15:11] <keijo_> i go to youtube, install missing plugins, Plugin Finder Service2
[15:11] <keijo_> searching and searching nothing happen
[15:17] <keijo_> only option is to cancell
[15:19] <keijo_> i go to adobe Flash Player download page there is APT for UB
[15:19] <keijo_> Ubuntu 10.04+
[15:30] <xubuntu247> him I have a little doubt: may I download an ubuntu distribution on my laptop with windows vista and install it ot remove the windows OS? or I can only do it by a bootable dvd?
[15:32] <TheSheep> !install | xubuntu247
[15:42] <keijo_> how to install oracle java
[15:43] <baizon> keijo_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
[16:04] <keijo_> how i can make panel 2 like osx
[16:05] <peyam> keijo_, google
[16:07] <peyam> keijo_, http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/design-your-own-desktop-with-xfce-44-part-2/
[17:14] <xubuntu849> hello a silly question but it is possible to make a xubuntu usb live and have the possibility to act as a partition where i can save my changes to some applications or store a few files in the reamining free space of usb?
[17:17] <Riley> xubuntu849 yes
[17:17] <Riley> you can use unetbootin to do that
[17:18] <xubuntu849> i know the tool but i mean i dont have to make any special setting right? i am choosing the iso of xubuntu
[17:18] <xubuntu849> and the usb storage stick
[17:19] <Riley> no theres just an option in unetbootin were u can allocate space seperatly
[17:20] <Riley> so any changes u make witht the live cd will stick when you reboot
[17:20] <xubuntu849> oh thank you so much ;) i ll check it then!
[17:21] <Riley> just make sure the usb is formated to fat32 or ext
[17:22] <xubuntu849> yeah i know it...it is formated to fat32 but maybe better to format it at ext4 via my install xubuntu on another laptop?by they way how i am doing it this? :P
[17:23] <Riley> fat32 is fine
[17:24] <xubuntu849> ok thank you ;)
[17:42] <keijo_> how to make xfce in xubuntu more beatiful easyly
[17:43] <keijo_> dock
[17:43] <xubuntu849> you can try cairo dock application but you have to remove your bottom panel of xfce
[17:43] <Riley> http://imgur.com/LPNDC9b
[17:44] <Riley> ^^
[17:44] <xubuntu849> omg how you made it like this? lol
[17:46] <Riley> cairodock and conkys
[17:49] <Riley> theres several videos and tutoirals on how to theme xfce keijo_
[17:50] <keijo_> im logged as root in terminal tell me commands
[17:50] <hplc> started up xubuntu as live cd, want to install, but first setup raid0, on the 2 HDDs, how do i do that?
[17:50] <keijo_> if you can help
[17:50] <Riley> its not that simple lol
[17:51] <keijo_> :)
[17:58] <knome> keijo_, tell you what commands?
[18:05] <keijo_> knome: i want make my dock more beatifull
[18:06] <keijo_> somethink like this
[18:06] <keijo_> http://i.imgur.com/LPNDC9b.jpg
[18:06] <KombuchaKip> To everyone: Ubuntu Forums hacked: http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html
[18:08] <Myrtti> people who care about the forums probably have already noticed ;-)
[18:08] <Riley> keijo_ please stop pming people without asking and demanding to tell you commands
[18:12] <hplc> hacked? in what way? graphics changed?
[18:12] <Riley> passwords and accounts were compromised
[18:13] <hplc> so it was not meant to offend and or ridicule?
[18:13] <Riley> they stole passwords
[18:14] <hplc> how can that be detected so fast?
[18:14] <hplc> i.e less than a day?
[18:15] <knome> ok, enough of the forums discussion
[18:15] <knome> the forums domain tell you what you need to know
[18:15] <Riley> thank you knome
[18:15] <Riley> are there not any mods in this channel
[18:16] <Myrtti> sure there are
[18:18] <keijo_> moi Myrtti
[18:19] <keijo_> Suomi Finland PERKELE
[18:19] <knome> keijo_, english only; and please watch your language. consider this the last warning.
[18:19] <keijo_> =) ok
[18:20] <Myrtti> tsktsk
[18:20] <knome> keijo_, i have no idea what dock that is - you might want to google for docks that work with xfce
[18:21] <keijo_> knome: panel 2
[18:21] <keijo_> i want make it more cool
[18:21] <Riley> knome its cairo
[18:21] <Myrtti> also
[18:21] <Myrtti> !fi
[18:22] <keijo_> thnx
[18:23] <keijo_> where is linus torvalds
[18:23] <knome> !offtopic | keijo_
[19:02] <Riley> woe
[19:02] <Riley> net split
[19:45] <xubuntu247> hi all,
[19:46] <xubuntu247> I'm trying to install xubuntu via usb created with unetbootin, but it doesn't work: I get a black screen with some letters flashing on it and the boot doesn't gets stuck
[19:47] <xubuntu247> has anybody ever experienced this behaviour?
[19:49] <Riley> xubuntu247 was that u here earlier
[19:49] <xubuntu247> yes
[19:49] <Riley> on unetbootin did it boot to the live cd there should be a feew options
[19:49] <xubuntu247> it's me... still trying
[19:50] <Riley> witch iso did u use
[19:51] <xubuntu247> xubuntu 12.4 or something!
[19:51] <xubuntu247> I selected one I had previously downloaded myself
[19:51] <Riley> oh
[19:52] <Riley> was the usb formated before u ran unetbootin
[19:52] <xubuntu247> yep: FAT32
[19:53] <nukke> xubuntu247: you can try using Universal USB Installer. it's a freeware program similar to Unetbootin, but a bit more straightforward.
[19:55] <xubuntu247> does it run on win2000?
[19:55] <nukke> xubuntu247: yes. here's the website: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
[19:56] <nukke> xubuntu247: sorry, it doesn't work with Windows 2000. I read wrong.
[19:56] <xubuntu247> ah!!...no problem. I had already tried it.
[19:58] <xubuntu247> I don't know it might depend on the booting system: my BIOS offers me to boot from USB FDD or USB ZIP. none of these works!
[19:59] <xubuntu247> any suggestions?
[19:59] <Riley> or win32 usb
[19:59] <Riley> it should have a 32bit version
[19:59] <Riley> man so i guess freenodes still getting atacked
[19:59] <Riley> do you have a blank dvd xubuntu247
[19:59] <xubuntu247> unfortunately not right know. I need to double check but I believe not.
[20:00] <Riley> that must be an ancient computer
[20:01] <xubuntu247> quite a bit! eh eh eh ;)
[20:01] <xubuntu247> but good news: I have found a DVD RW and I have an external DVD burner!!
[20:02] <Riley> nice
[20:02] <Riley> i still have a couple ubuntu 10.04 cds lol
[20:51] <pytr0n> Hello everyone! I was hoping somebody could help me with Geany. I installed version 0.21 and installed themes for Syntax highlighting as the README describes, but I have no idea how to select the theme. Could somebody explain to me how I change the color scheme?
[21:33] <TheLordOfTime> where's the user's trash directory stored in Xubuntu?
[21:33] <TheLordOfTime> in Ubuntu, it's ~/.local/share/Trash/* but I am curious what it is in Xubuntu
[21:33] <Unit193> .local/share/Trash/
[21:34] <TheLordOfTime> Unit193:  within the user's home directory, right?
[21:34] <Unit193> Of course.
[21:34] <TheLordOfTime> such that /home/$USER/.local/share/Trash/*
[21:34] <TheLordOfTime> hmmmmm
[21:35] <TheLordOfTime> Unit193:  http://askubuntu.com/questions/322687/theres-a-file-in-my-trash-that-cant-be-deleted <-- any ideas then?
[21:35] <TheLordOfTime> because they say said folder there is missing
[22:01] <xubuntu743> Can anyone help? I want to know how to make my fonts look like they do in Windows.
[22:01] <bekks> xubuntu743: We dont know how they look in Windows :)
[22:02] <xubuntu743> :/
[22:02] <nukke> can you be more specific?
[22:03] <xubuntu743> EVERYTHING uses the default font, even on websites.. That isn't what I want.
[22:03] <knome> xubuntu743, rather than telling what you don't want, what if you told what you want?
[22:04] <bekks> knome: "something else" :)
[22:05] <SunStar> 96 dpi Segoe UI 9pt regular
[22:05] <bekks> Then configure your system to use that specific font.
[22:07] <xubuntu743> What i'm trying to say is that when browsing websites, only the default font is used for everything, and not the MS web core fonts I installed.
[22:07] <SunStar> if the website doesnt specify a particular font then it uses system default font, you can change the system fonts, you can also change the fonts and colors in your browser's prefrences
[22:07] <knome> xubuntu743, you can change the firefox preferences to change that behavior if you wish
[22:08] <knome> font rendering will most probably be an exact match with windows though
[22:08] <knome> (even if one used the same fonts)
[22:11] <xubuntu743> I've tried in firefox, and chrome. Still the same results. I'm not trying to pester, it's just I don't understand what the problem is.
[22:11] <knome> as i said, font rendering most probably differs whatsoever
[22:12] <knome> i'm pretty confident you can't have 100% the exact same looks
[22:14] <xubuntu743> Well, thanks anyway..
[22:14] <knome> xubuntu743, it isn't a solution, but my suggestion is to not worry too much about it - you'll get used to it
[22:14] <xubuntu743> I suppose.
[22:16] <SunStar> perhaps you should file a bug report on the issue?
[22:17] <knome> if he's changed the default fonts in firefox as the MS fonts, there's no bug
[22:17] <knome> it's as much a bug as "there's no C:-drive in xubuntu"
[22:18] <SunStar> firefox has a bug reporting system as well. ubuntu is not special.
[22:18] <knome> SunStar, no, but firefox can't affect ubuntu's font rendering
[22:19] <SunStar> i suppose i'm just not understanding the issue as you are
[22:20] <knome> as far as i know, font rendering on same firefox version in windows an linux differs
[22:20] <knome> sure, you can use the saem font and it looks pretty much the same
[22:21] <SunStar> sounds to me like xubuntu743 is changing the font, and the font, and the correct font is not being displayed
[22:21] <knome> but there's no way to make sure the rendering is exactly the same - which in most cases is the reason why people think there's something wrong with the  fonts
[22:21] <nukke> xubuntu743: have you tried changing the Xfce font settings?
[22:24] <keijo_> i installed cairo-dock and i cant see firefox fullscreen
[22:24] <keijo_> there is under space
[22:24] <xubuntu743> the xfce font settings are the only settings i've changed. I've changed nothing in either browser. They should allow the website to display their own fonts by default. Which is my concern.
[22:24] <knome> xubuntu743, if a website defines fonts, they are able to use them
[22:25] <knome> xubuntu743, they can also define "sans" or "sans-serif", which in the xubuntu firefox fall back to non-MS fonts
[22:26] <knome> xubuntu743, that's why you should also see firefox's font settings, if you want sites to be able to use MS-fonts even when they use "sans", "sans-serif" etc
[22:28] <keijo_> i installed cairo-dock and i cant see firefox fullscreen, there is under free space, i want full screen
[22:29] <knome> !patience | keijo_
[22:32] <xubuntu743> I'll figure it out, if not, it's not a big deal.
[22:32] <knome> xubuntu743, good luck
[22:37] <xubuntu743> Anyway, can I get a login manager like this http://i.imgur.com/61BiC3v.png ? It's slim, isn't it?
[22:37] <knome> if you find such theme for lightdm, sure
[22:39] <xubuntu743> I can't use slim instead of lightdm?
[22:39] <knome> um, right. most probably, yes
[22:39] <knome> the first thing i'd check is if it's in the repositories
[22:39] <knome> if not, it can get a bit harder
[22:47] <Guest62589> nick
[22:48] <Guest62589> exit
[23:23] <keijo_> i need software to download from youtube
[23:25] <lderan> keijo_, im sure you could find ways to do that on google, if the video isn't of copyrighted content that is
[23:25] <lderan> also a bit offtopic
[23:30] <xubuntu557> i have xubuntu going in on a 4gb ssd, it is fitting okay!
[23:30] <SunStar> keijo_,  have you tried a site like www.keepvid.com ?
[23:30] <xubuntu557> wat?
[23:48] <keijo_> =)