[02:32] <Pwnna> huh xfrun4 is not picking up any applications: https://i.imgur.com/1QPR9hA.png
[02:33] <Pwnna> any idea why this is happening?
[04:16] <mogambo> hello! I had xubuntu 14.04 lts installed in virtual box and I tried updating it today and the installation went corrupt... how can I undo this?
[04:17] <BarnabasDK> define "corrupt"
[04:18] <BarnabasDK> can you boot to a terminal?
[06:12] <relyks> //j ##ubuntu
[06:12] <relyks> sorry
[09:39] <sorinello_> orn
[10:49] <knifework> any ideas on how to get bluetooth running on xfce4
[10:49] <knifework> can't get anything to work
[11:27] <StayaSinic> blueman not work?
[12:46] <xubuntu46w> Hello, since I upgraded to Xubuntu 16.04, the flight mode of my laptop (Asus Zenbook) is on, and can't be switched out. Has someone a work-around?
[12:46] <knome> how did you turn it off before the upgrade?
[12:48] <xubuntu46w> Before the upgrade I could turn it off by clicking simultaneously on <fn> and <f2>
[12:48] <knome> sounds like a regression then, indeed...
[12:48] <knome> do you have an option to turn it on or off in the bios?
[12:48] <knome> does that work or does the system force you to the flight mode regardless?
[12:49] <xubuntu46w> I didn't yet try to do that in the bios, haven't seen an option there
[12:50] <knome> iirc, my laptop has an option to either try switching to the flight mode automatically - or turn that option off
[12:50] <knome> if you have something similar, that might be the workaround
[12:50] <xubuntu46w> Okay, I'll see and try! Thank you.
[12:50] <knome> did you upgrade fraom 14.04 or 16.04?
[12:51] <knome> eh, 15.10
[12:51] <xubuntu46w> I upgraded from 14.04
[12:51] <knome> okay, in that case a lot has happened in between...
[12:53] <knome> hmm, did a quick search and that problem seemed to exist even with/in windows...
[21:04] <xubuntu94w> Hello
[21:05] <xubuntu94w> I need help for a computer
[21:05] <xubuntu94w> Can anyone help me?
[21:09] <genii> xubuntu94w: Best to just ask your actual question, and then see if someone knows the answer or can otherwise assist
[21:11] <xubuntu94w> I've got a pc with an amd sempron 2800+ 1,6gb 2gb ddr ram
[21:11] <xubuntu94w> what kinda distro can I install onto it?
[21:14] <genii> xubuntu94w: Well, of course being in the #xubuntu channel, you know the first recommendation! ;)  But, also you might want to look at Lubuntu as well, another lighter ditribution than regular Ubuntu
[21:15] <xubuntu94w> Now it's running windows xp professional
[21:15] <xubuntu94w> but it is so slow


[00:03] <rushed> rs
[00:59] <justizin> anyone have an auto-install image with sane defaults? i have a headless machine that's dead and needs a reinstall, and no effing keyboard around (personal machine ;d)
[00:59] <justizin> i guess i've been ssh-ing to this thing for like 3 years and i gave away all my keyboards
[00:59] <justizin> tried a trusty upgrade and i think it power failed installing glibc and it just keeps hanging trying to recover from a failed upgrade
[01:02] <MavKen> what is the easiest thing to install/setup for my php scripts to send out mail?  I dont need a full blown mail server
[02:24] <mwhudson> hm
[02:25] <mwhudson> i'm trying to run the latest trusty cloud image under kvm but i can't log in
[02:25] <mwhudson> neither taking the 'ubuntu with random password' or ubuntu:ubuntu options in grub work
[02:25] <mwhudson> is this known?
[06:59] <Amarino_Mallo_da> hi all
[09:32] <jamespage> Daviey, all of the 2013.2.2 updates are now in the saucy-proposed queue
[10:16] <Daviey> jamespage: ok, will process within the hour.
[10:16] <jamespage> Daviey, thanks
[12:11] <martin__> Hi, I'm trying to install php5-xsl in Ubuntu 12.04 but keep getting this error "E: Unable to locate package php5-xsl"
[13:35] <smoser> jamespage, is package list at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/cloud-archive/cloud-tools-next_versions.html still relevant ?
[13:35] <smoser> particularly i'm asking about mongodb and libv8-3.14
[13:36] <jamespage> smoser, right now yes
[13:36] <jamespage> I'm still waiting for upstream to switch over the juju-mongodb
[13:37] <smoser> ok.
[13:55] <smoser> rbasak, hooray, uvtool in cloud-tools-next: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cloud-archive/+archive/cloud-tools-next/+build/5640087
[13:59] <rbasak> smoser: \o/
[13:59] <rbasak> smoser: thank you!
[14:24] <Daviey> hallyn: libvirt SRU candidate 1.1-0ubuntu8.6 seems to include many many more fixes than bug 1228977.
[14:25] <hallyn> Daviey: this is the saucy libvirtd?
[14:26] <Daviey> yah
[14:27] <Daviey> hallyn: i'd be happier if libvirt had an MRE, tracking the maint tree
[14:27] <hallyn> Daviey: yeah, if saucy was longer-lived I'd do that
[14:28] <hallyn> if 1.2.2 gets a -maint tree, we should request an MRE for trusty
[14:28] <hallyn> the problem is the -maint trees are rather randomly started after-the-fact.  Of course perhaps zul and I should always maintain one if nooen else does
[14:29] <hallyn> (I did start one for the precise tree;  noone uses it but me of course :)
[14:29] <zul> hallyn:  totally
[14:30] <hallyn> Daviey: anyway, I didn't feel comfortable that cherrypicking only the patches in comment #32 would suffice
[14:30] <hallyn> Daviey: but if you want to reject the upload I understand.
[14:30] <Daviey> hallyn: ah, i assumed there was a maint tree for all.
[14:30] <hallyn> nope :(
[14:31] <hallyn> I also need to look at bug 1264465 for saucy libvirt, once that SRU is either completed or rejected
[14:31] <zul> Daviey:  that would be too easy
[14:33] <Daviey> hallyn: no planned point release for 1.2.2?
[14:33] <Daviey> or point, point
[14:36] <hallyn> Daviey: that doesn't get announced in advance I don't think
[14:38] <hallyn> zul: qemu 2.0 candidate (misnamed) built fine in ppa:ubuntu-virt/canidate;  woohoo
[14:38] <zul> hallyn:  sweet..send out the info
[14:39] <hallyn> coffee
[14:39] <hallyn> Daviey caught me caffeine-less
[15:47] <caribou> jamespage: I Need your opinion on bug 1188126
[15:47] <caribou> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1188126
[15:47] <caribou> Juju unable to interact consistently with an openstack deployment where tenant has multiple networks configured
[16:02] <eutheria> hi, is there a package i can install that will email notifications for package updates?
[16:03] <genii> eutheria: Instead, probably just to sign up for the mailing list of changes for the distribution you're running
[16:04] <eutheria> genii: i just want to know to install packages, i don't want to manually check a list
[16:04] <thedeeno> I'd like to use docker on some of my servers. Docker says I need at least version 3.8 of the kernel to use it.
[16:04] <thedeeno> What should I do with my 12.04 machines? Upgrade the kernel
[16:04] <thedeeno> or upgrade the whole system
[16:04] <thedeeno> to like 13.04 or something
[16:05] <thedeeno> ? I'm unsure of the pros and cons of each
[16:11] <eutheria> i wonder what docker is
[16:16] <caribou> thedeeno: you can install backported lts kernels on 12.04
[16:17] <caribou> thedeeno: either you use apt-get dist-upgrade but that will touch more than just the kernel, or look for linux-image-3.*lts* in the package list & install only the one you want
[16:18] <thedeeno> caribou: I'm new to this ecosystem. What are those? Are these the 12.04.X releases? They include new kernels?
[16:18] <caribou> thedeeno: since 12.04 is an Long Term Support (lts) release, newer kernels have been backported to 12.04
[16:18] <thedeeno> nice, that is my primary concern, keeping that long term release support
[16:20] <caribou> thedeeno: you can use "sudo apt-cache search linux-image | grep lts" to find them out
[16:20] <thedeeno> caribou: what do these packages look like? Is this one? `linux-generic-lts-raring`
[16:20] <thedeeno> caribou: great! I'll try that out
[16:21] <caribou> thedeeno: apt-cache show linux-generic-lts-raring | grep Version will tell you
[16:21] <caribou> thedeeno: for instance, the saucy-lts one is kernel 3.11-*
[16:22] <thedeeno> caribou: so these kernels are all considered safe then, because they're backported? I was nervous that I'd hit some serious bugs but just
[16:22] <thedeeno> replacing the kernel from underneath 12.04's feet
[16:22] <thedeeno> s/but/by/
[16:22] <caribou> thedeeno: safe & suported
[16:22] <patdk-wk> the only issue you should have, is if you need dkms modules
[16:22] <patdk-wk> they won't work
[16:23] <thedeeno> wow, excellent
[16:23] <caribou> thedeeno: patdk-wk don't the dkms mods get rebuilt ? hmm, maybe not on precise
[16:23] <patdk-wk> yes
[16:24] <patdk-wk> but no one backported the dkms module to support the new kernel
[16:24] <patdk-wk> so if it works, good, if it doesn't due to kernel changes, crash and burn
[16:24] <patdk-wk> xtables/open-vm-tools won't work
[16:24] <caribou> hmm, true
[16:24] <caribou> so thedeeno ^^^
[16:26] <patdk-wk> now, I have those two dkms modules built by me to work, on all except the newest one
[16:27] <patdk-wk> I opted to drop support and wait for 14.04 :)
[16:27] <patdk-wk> and I descided it was just too much of a pain, and only have one machine using them
[16:37] <thedeeno> yeah it sucks that I'm 2 months early, but i need to deploy these servers this week :(
[16:37] <thedeeno> i don't think I have any dependencies on dkms tho
[16:38]  * thedeeno crosses fingers
[16:38] <thedeeno> caribou: patdk-wk: ty ty
[16:38] <thedeeno> OH, one more thing, how does installing a new kernel effect my current packages.
[16:38] <thedeeno> ?
[16:39] <patdk-wk> it doesn't
[16:39] <thedeeno> sweet
[16:54] <thedeeno> Is there a way to get the actual kernel version from these packages without installing them? I'd like to do some automation and need
[16:54] <thedeeno> to work with the version number before reboot
[17:02] <patdk-wk> grub?
[17:08] <thedeeno> I'm installing this kernel on a rackspace node, and I need to edit the grub entry before reboot because rackspace apparently doesn't
[17:08] <thedeeno> like what grub-update is giving it
[17:09] <thedeeno> and I'd like to do it in an automated way using sed
[17:09] <thedeeno> but I'm not sure where to find the actual kernel version (formatted like 3.8.0-19-generic)
[17:10] <thedeeno> basically i'd like to, given one of these lts packages, figure out what the `uname -r` would report after installing it
[17:15] <patdk-wk> the only way is by parsing the grub file
[17:15] <patdk-wk> but if grub isn't there
[17:15] <patdk-wk> guess you just have to search /boot/
[17:16] <patdk-wk> ls /boot/vmlinuz-* | sort -r
[17:41] <hallyn> oh  noes - qemu upstream needs a seabios update
[17:42] <hallyn> ah no, only need a new symlink
[19:13] <shodan45> I'm running openvpn client on 12.04 & having problems when it loses connection to the VPN server - it tries to reconnect, but can't because it can't resolve the host name
[19:14] <shodan45> and it can't resolve because the routing is still set to use the VPN....
[19:14] <shodan45> anyone know a fix for that, aside from manually restarting things?
[19:15] <sarnold> I'm surprised it falls back to looking up an ip address when a connection drops rather than just try to re-handshake with the IP it already knew..
[19:19] <shodan45> sarnold: even if it did, because the routing table is still set to use the (now broken) VPN connection, it wouldn't be able to connect
[19:19] <shodan45> I have to manually stop & start openvpn to get it to work again
[19:20] <sarnold> shodan45: really? shouldn't the 'external' ip of the headend be routable over the internet? otherwise how do the vpn packets make it to the gateway?
[19:22] <shodan45> sarnold: I don'
[19:22] <shodan45> oops :)
[19:23] <shodan45> sarnold: I don't follow 100%.... the client is behind a NAT on my home cable internet
[19:24] <shodan45> it connects to the openvpn server just fine, but if my cable connection goes down, when it comes back up, I have to manually restart openvpn
[19:25] <sarnold> shodan45: hrm, this would be easier with a whiteboard or piece of paper, heh
[19:26] <sarnold> shodan45: so, when you initiate a ocnnection to your openvpn gateway, the first packet there has to travel on the open internet.. eventually a connection is established and new routing entries are installed ..
[19:26] <shodan45> for whatever reason, openvpn doesn't reset the changes it made to routing (etc.) when the connection to the remote VPN server drops
[19:27] <sarnold> shodan45: but all the data you send is still being sent to the globally routable ip address of the gateway, right? it can't migrate to an 'internal' ip, inside the tunnel, because the tunnel still needs to get packets to the remote host.
[19:27] <sarnold> that sounds annoying :) but perhaps they expected to be able to rebuild the connection transparently..
[19:28] <shodan45> I have 2 "gateways": my home router, and my VPN service's
[19:30] <sarnold> actually, I wonder if the problem is your NAT router..
[19:30] <shodan45> the only problem I have is when my home cable internet connection goes down (maybe once/week)
[19:30] <sarnold> if it is stateful (most are) it might tear down the connection when your connection drops; openvpv might assume it can just keep trying and it'll eventually work..
[19:30] <shodan45> sarnold: no... the problem is almost certainly with openvpn or its configuration
[19:31] <sarnold> ouch, weekly crashes? how is it so bad? o_O
[19:32] <shodan45> ok, let me try changing the scenario :)
[19:32] <shodan45> suppose I'm on a laptop with wifi & connect to a VPN
[19:33] <shodan45> then I go out of range of the wifi, and connect to a different network
[19:34] <shodan45> the problem is that openvpn needs to put all the changes (notably routing) back the way they were if it loses its connection to the VPN server
[19:45] <sarnold> shodan45: it may not have a good view of when it loses connectivity -- it may not know 'it's gone forever' from 'it's down for ten seconds'...
[19:46] <sarnold> shodan45: there may be a configuration knob to tweak to get it to tear down vpns that don't work, but they might have chosen to remain broken to make it clear that e.g. your connection to google or gmail would go over unsafe local networking
[19:46] <sarnold> shodan45: I suspect "require local teardown" is the more obvious and informative design decision, but when the local networking dies every week, that -would- get very old..
[19:47] <shodan45> sarnold: right... I'm investigating along those lines now
[19:48] <shodan45> sarnold: and it isn't "local networking", just the internet connection - and I suspect that's the real problem
[19:49] <sarnold> shodan45: to my mind that's local :)
[19:50] <shodan45> I think if I yanked the cat6 out of the box, I wouldn't have this problem :)
[19:50] <shodan45> (assuming I plugged it back in...)
[19:51] <sarnold> shodan45: probably, depends upon how quickly you replaced it :) hehe
[19:51] <sarnold> shodan45: off to lunch, have fun, and if you find something I'd be curious to know what your solution is
[19:52] <shodan45> #openvpn suggested a shell script to watch the connection.... :/
[19:54] <pmatulis_> jamespage: do we know what's going on here? --> http://tracker.ceph.com/issues/6726
[19:54] <jamespage> pmatulis_, refers to the upstream ceph repositories
[19:55] <pmatulis_> jamespage: i realize that.  i thought you might know why upstream is not making recent ceph releases available to recent ubuntu releases
[21:39] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay mwhudson .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:39] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay axisys .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:40] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay AndroidLoverInSF .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:40] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay bogeyd6 .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:41] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay jak2013 .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:41] <ekosuhartonocom> Hay mgw .... welcome to this channel, more detail visit www.ekosuhartono.com
[21:41] <shauno> !ops
[21:41] <shauno> (sorry, but that's annoying)
[21:41] <Pici> indeed it is.
[21:41] <IdleOne> done
[21:41] <shauno> thanks
[21:42] <soren> shauno: Oh, thank *you*.
[21:42] <shauno> aw I feel special now :)  I don't like waking everyone up, but .. yeah
[21:43] <mgw> any suggestions on how to recover from a bad upstart script leaving the service in this state: start/killed, process 28539
[21:43] <mgw> I've manually killed the procs
[21:44] <mgw> but can't start the service (it hangs)
[21:47] <sheptard> lol what a twit


[00:30] <OvenWerks> krytarik: I would think so, but it is not daily right now, so the question becomes when :)
[00:57] <krytarik> OvenWerks: I guess if it didn't happen by morning UTC, we should have another run at it ourselves. :P
[05:51] <flocculant> something awry with your build - log says it built 9/10 hours ago - tracker says it's rebuilding
[05:52] <flocculant> as far as rebuilds go - if there's no-one about from your team to trigger it - I'm pretty sure I have perm to do so
[07:58] <zequence> Our ship seed may have caused it. Both cjwatson and infinity were poiking in our seeds yesterday
[08:01] <cfhowlett> that sounds ... shady ...
[08:04] <zequence> cfhowlett: They were fixing our ISO build problem
[08:05] <zequence> infinty is the Ubuntu release manager and cjwatson is one of the original authors of a lot of stuff in the infrastructure
[08:05] <zequence> ..or at least maintainer, if not author. Think he did ubiquity.
[08:06] <zequence> Anyway, we are in safe hands :)
[08:18] <zequence> flocculant: How do you trigger it, if not from the qa page?
[09:22] <cub> Anyone know if the iso will be built today?
[09:28] <zequence> cub: Hopefully it will build :)
[09:33] <zequence> cub: I'm poking people about it now. We can usually do rebuilds ourselves, but the qa site has hung after yesterdays failure
[09:33] <cub> Looking at the time stamps on previous builds it seems it won't be until late afternoon/evening Swedish time
[09:34] <cub> Aha or we can trigger a build at other times?
[09:34] <zequence> Yes, members of ubuntustudio-release have access to those controls at iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[09:34] <cub> I was hoping to run an installation in the background while doing mindnumbing excel spreadsheet work
[09:36] <zequence> Wonder what actually caused the build failure though. Not because of any change we did. But, apparently our seeds included some old stuff that is not used anymore
[09:36] <zequence> I still have much to learn in that area myself
[14:13] <autumna> zequence: about the website code, do we have a coding style we are following or just writing for now?
[14:15] <zequence> autumna: Nope. I'm a beginner css and php hacker myself, and just try to follow the common standards
[14:15] <zequence> actually, need to remove some stuff that I realized we don't need anymore from functions.php
[14:16] <autumna> awesome ok.
[14:36] <zequence> sakrecoer: autumna: The feature definition page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial
[14:37] <zequence> Make additions or suggest changes
[14:38] <sakrecoer> nice zequence! Tahnks! also, great to have you in the webteam autumna :)
[14:41] <autumna> nice to be here sakrecoer :) I'll poke at the css a bit later. (if I can figure out git in time)
[14:43] <sakrecoer> :) autumna: to jsut clone it all you need to do is: clone git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website
[14:43] <sakrecoer> (i'm no way an epxert, but zequence pasted that command in OT
[14:45] <autumna> I know. will probably also need a xampp or something similar to view the pages through
[14:47] <zequence> autumna: I can give you your own WP installation if you want. I have loads of space. Just one click away
[14:48] <autumna> I might ask for it if I end up doing something more serious than poking at color scheme
[14:48] <zequence> alright
[14:48] <autumna> but I should really be good and learn to how to work with a proper workflow, instead of my usual habit of SSHing and changing things on spot
[14:49] <zequence> yeah, shouldn't we all learn that
[14:49] <zequence> The blueprints page https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/website-topic-x
[14:49] <sakrecoer> zequence: "We are planning to update the website look and content for the release of 16.04." ehm... that would be this thursday right?
[14:49] <zequence> sakrecoer: Well, let's not be too pedantic about dates, shall we?
[14:50] <sakrecoer> hehe ok :)
[14:50] <zequence> I should have said around the release of 16.04
[14:50]  * sakrecoer puts an icecube under my shirt.
[14:50] <zequence> The blueprints are very simple. You can add tasks there, if they correspond with the feature definition
[14:51] <autumna> UNLESS you want to compare 2 designs side by side, in which case, give me my own stage away and I'll be happily lazy *snort*
[14:51] <zequence> Also, if you want to take on a task, just change [ubuntustudio-website] into your own LP nick, and TODO into INPROGRESS
[14:51] <zequence> autumna: sure
[14:52] <zequence> sakrecoer: So, this is the basics of how we should have done all the work this cycle - feature definitions -> blueprints -> code
[14:53] <sakrecoer> :)
[14:57] <zequence> Feature definitions can be worked on for a good while during the initial part of the cycle, and that is translated into a blueprint.
[14:57] <zequence> Finally, the person responsible checks the blueprint for sanity, and marks it ready and approved
[14:57] <zequence> Then, everyone just follows the blueprint
[14:58] <zequence> Whenever you need changes to the blueprints - if it conflicts or changes something, it needs to be discussed first, and again, the person responsible needs to approve
[14:58] <zequence> This way we all know which way we are heading and people can work independently during the cycle
[14:59] <zequence> The person who approves can be either a team lead, or the project lead
[15:00] <zequence> Feature Definition Freeze means planning stops, and blueprints are cemented
[15:00] <zequence> But, we only follow that, if we want to. If we really want to be serious, we add the blueprints to the Ubuntu project, not to the UBuntu Studio one
[15:01] <zequence> We're such a small team usually, that the organization of blueprints usually is just work for nothing, as only one or two people are using them
[15:01] <zequence> Let's hope things are different the following two years
[15:01] <sakrecoer> hmm... got a mail that i'm subsrcribed to the blueprint, but LP says i'm not... needs time to cron?
[15:02] <sakrecoer> also i fail to understand how the dependency diagram is established
[15:02] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you're in the core team, you are subscribed to all sub teams
[15:02] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[15:02] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you check the bottom of the page, you see the link "add dependencu"
[15:02] <sakrecoer> "established" is the wrong word...
[15:02] <zequence> If you add a dependency to a blueprint, the dependency appears above that blueprint
[15:03] <zequence> And, you can add as many as you want. I've just simply put all blueprints as dependencies to the main topic blueprint
[15:03] <zequence> Actually, this blueprint is supposed to just be a topic, originally, so I should renambe it
[15:03] <sakrecoer> ok, i'm starting to get it... i think :)
[15:04] <zequence> But, doesn't matter. It's the last blueprint for X. You can create your own thing for next release
[15:04] <zequence> Rosco2: Hi. We seem to have problems getting a new build
[15:05] <Rosco2> Just switched on to see if the build failure was still there
[15:05] <zequence> Rosco2: Can't even get a comment in the release channel as to why, but I'm not hounding people
[15:05] <zequence> seeds were changed, but I'm unsure if that is a fix
[15:05] <Rosco2> Yeah - I saw the changes
[15:05] <Rosco2> Wasn't sure it it was a fix - or the failure
[15:06] <Rosco2> It was only after those changes that the build failed
[15:07] <zequence> Really?
[15:07] <zequence> Ah, maybe only the first change did that
[15:08] <zequence> ..and the second one fixed it probably
[15:09] <Rosco2> I am not sure about the order of things
[15:09] <Rosco2> I was quickly scanning the emails this morning before I went off to work
[15:09] <Rosco2> Have we tried a rebuild recently?
[15:10] <zequence> Rosco2: both me and flocculant have asked about it on -release
[15:11] <zequence> Rosco2: You can give it a try, if you want :)
[15:11] <Rosco2> Just logging into the tracker now
[15:13] <zequence> Rosco2: I've tried to rebuild from there a couple of times, but it seems to have stuck
[15:16] <Rosco2> OK - I can see it still says rebuilding
[15:17] <zequence> Yep
[15:17] <Rosco2> I am not expecting that if I click on the same thing that I will have a different result :-)
[15:18] <zequence> I already tried canceling the build request as well. Nothing
[15:21] <Rosco2> Hmmm. 5:58 PM yesterday seeds changed by infinity. Build failed email 9:55 PM. Colin changed seeds 12:24 AM today
[15:23] <Rosco2> just saw stgrabers response on the release channel
[15:25] <zequence> Rosco2: Yep. hopefully infinity will work it out
[15:27] <Rosco2> Build seemed to crash after trying to fetch our seeds branch
[15:27] <Rosco2> Just did a bzr pull and it worked here
[15:28] <Rosco2> And I have one more revision than the log of the build failure
[15:59] <zequence> Rosco2: There are always a couple of seed pulls that don't work
[15:59] <zequence> Rosco2: But, I'm sure dropping our ship seed, when still keeping it in STRUCTURE was a bad idea
[16:42] <Rosco2> zequence: yeah - but the log didn't seem to get that far
[16:42] <Rosco2> It seemed to crash and stop
[16:43] <Rosco2> Anyway, I can still do some dist-upgrade tests while I wait
[17:27] <sakrecoer> bug #1572249
[18:49] <zequence> Judging from the communication in -release, I would say there will respins in a couple of hours
[18:49] <OvenWerks> waiting :)
[18:50] <Rosco2> My upgrade from Trusty to Xenial still fails
[18:50] <zequence> Rosco2: I've never trusted those anyway
[18:50] <zequence> Rosco2: But, what is causing it?
[18:51] <zequence> If it's a change in one of our packages, we should probably take a look at that
[18:52] <Rosco2> bug #1572262
[18:52] <Rosco2> apt log shows lots of broken packages, but I haven't studied it yet
[18:55] <zequence> That's a lot of packages. I'm happy to stay out of that one.
[18:57] <zequence> Doesn't seem very Ubuntu Studio specific either
[19:00] <OvenWerks> Rosco2: system service stuff? session startup? upstart to systemd maybe?
[19:01] <Rosco2> I nearly marked another bug report as duplicate
[19:01] <Rosco2> He wasn't on Studio
[19:04] <Rosco2> OvenWerks: I can see many old tricky transitions in there that affected most of the archive
[19:05] <Rosco2> Gnome guys report that machine doesn't start after the upgrade
[19:05] <Rosco2> O don't get that far :-)
[19:08] <OvenWerks> Rosco2: The other problem for me is that my 14.04 is not in any way stock. I do development work on it too. so any upgrade script that handles only the applications/utilities on the ISO is likely to fail.
[19:10] <Rosco2> I am glad now that I followed every release since then
[19:10] <OvenWerks> I normally reinstall and link in the folders on my old home. I end up reinstalling all the dev files etc.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> upgrade is much more important with my server though.
[19:12] <OvenWerks> (server is both upgrading and going from 32->64 bit :P
[19:14] <Rosco2> Losing my home directory on the Music Studio may not be a bad idea
[19:14] <Rosco2> There is some horrible music created on there
[19:14] <Rosco2> :-)
[20:03] <autumna> zequence: http://autumna.zequence.net/ you probably already know this, but you can do quite a bit with css.
[20:18] <knome> autumna, instead of changing some of the basic structures of the theme, why don't you focus on how you would make a feature tour work with the theme?
[20:19] <autumna> oh, I think sakrecoer is working on the feature tour?
[20:19] <knome> i don't know
[20:20] <knome> from the original theme author POV, these kind of changes are not really what i'm expecting
[20:20] <autumna> the too much fun with css aside, the original background of the header chosen was making the text a bit hard to read, so I was trying to find a way to fix that without using another color. at least that is where I sidetracked ;D
[20:21] <knome> you can change the color from the theme options
[20:21] <knome> you don't need to apply any CSS yourself
[20:22] <sakrecoer> yes, i am, but you are wellcome to help me autumna :) i'm commuting home right now, but i'll push it to some good place. maybe that way i can focus on the text and pictures. of course i will probably need feedback on that too..
[20:22] <autumna> yeah but I couldn't find a way to make it transparent, which was what I was trying to do (originally)
[20:23] <knome> why would you need to make it transparent?
[20:23] <autumna> sakrecoer just let me know which plugin you are using if you are using one, but yeah seeing the content would make it easier
[20:23] <autumna> to change the color without changing the color?
[20:23] <knome> there is nothing in the background that would make the color change anyway
[20:23] <sakrecoer> autumna: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/tour/
[20:23] <sakrecoer> no plugin, plain html...
[20:24] <autumna> there is the gray color.
[20:24] <autumna> and yes, if we did a flat color, I would eventually just get the midway color and use that, rather than using transparency
[20:26] <autumna> sakrecoer: i can take this and see if I can take this and stuff it into a plugin
[20:26] <autumna> if you want
[20:27] <sakrecoer> that sounds AWESOME autumna!!!
[20:28] <knome> instead of creating a plugin, why don't you create a page template in the child theme that allows the content area to span the whole window width?
[20:29] <autumna> knome: I was actually just thinking something along the same lines
[20:29] <knome> and on the same breath, that's why i'm here to begin with
[20:29] <knome> i have been asking how you want to do things X, Y, Z but haven't heard anything back
[20:30] <knome> so ideally the page template could even be somehow integrated in the main theme
[20:30] <knome> to make sure everything is done right...
[20:30] <autumna> I was poking into a child template actually that zequence created for us.
[20:31] <knome> i know
[20:32] <knome> i've talked with him about it
[20:32] <autumna> but if you want it in the main template.. if this is to be a permanent part of the main template... maybe it might be better to have multiple items
[20:32] <autumna> for each "Page" of the feature tour
[20:32] <knome> that's related to content, not code
[20:33] <autumna> how so?
[20:34] <knome> how is it related to code whether you present something in one or five pages?
[20:34] <knome> or if you have one or five menu items for it?
[20:35] <sakrecoer> knome: the layout of the feature tour is different from the blog roll
[20:35] <autumna> no what I meant wasn't having separate pages.
[20:36] <autumna> I meant the output would look a single page
[20:36] <knome> sakrecoer, ack
[20:36] <knome> sakrecoer, i'm getting that since day one..
[20:36] <autumna> but when updating you would see different items
[20:36] <knome> updating?
[20:38] <autumna> ok so basically, the way sakrecoer made the feature tour is 1 page, with different categories. intro, audio, video, graphics
[20:38] <autumna> each of these groupings have their own background image, title (I assume eventually) and content.
[20:39] <autumna> so in some ways these are all independent "pages". so the template should allow multiple items of this type, but when viewing, view them one under another.
[20:40] <zequence> knome: We're looking at doing exactly that - custom templates, but I haven't done that yet. Need to see how we can have custom css for those pages
[20:40] <zequence> Like full width for certain elements
[20:40] <autumna> its more modular, so the person doing the content entry doesn't have to play with the divs, and positioning background images, etc, -
[20:41] <autumna> hi zequence :)
[20:41] <zequence> autumna: Hi
[20:41] <knome> zequence, the easiest way is to make sure the new page template has a specific body id/class, then in the css just do body#id/.class element { ... }
[20:41] <zequence> knome: Right
[20:42] <knome> you want to keep the structure of the html as intact as possible so you can benfit all the things the theme is doing for you
[20:45] <zequence> I'm thinking inheritng most of the css for the new body#id, and just change the details that matter
[20:45] <zequence> Since I do this kind of work so seldom, I have a very poor experience in what strategy is the best
[20:46] <zequence> I mean, poor experience, not a poor experience
[20:48] <zequence> It's also a matter of which way is the simplest for us - do we do the whole page in code, or do we make a custom page which we fill with content from WP
[20:49] <zequence> It's a lot simpler to edit using WP, as otherwise we need to have Canonical admins upload our changes
[20:49] <zequence> Meaning, it's easier to do the content from WP, which we have access to. We don't have direct access to the WP installation itself. NO ftp access, in other words
[20:51] <autumna> zequence: re ease, do you plan to update content in this layout when 16.10 comes? or do we expect the website will change again?
[20:51] <zequence> autumna: I would expect the website to stay pretty much the same at least until next LTS
[20:52] <zequence> One of the main reasons to change this time, is to have the page being mobile friendly, but we might as well improve what else we can while doing it
[20:53] <autumna> *nods* yeah to me it seems there can be some use to making a template page, I mean what sakrecoer created here looks pretty modern and can be reused even by other groups if we created something that makes it possible.
[20:53] <autumna> the con is that I am not sure how difficult or easy it would be to create a template like that, I mean it is possible it isn't super complicated just.. I never did PHP development in WP.
[20:54] <autumna> also there IS a third option
[20:54] <autumna> that we just plug everything in now, to get things ready for thursday
[20:55] <autumna> then calmly make it into a custom page template later. ;D
[20:55] <zequence> autumna: Oh, but thursday is not the goal. We don't have time to meet that however we do it
[20:55] <autumna> but if as soon as possible after thursday is the goal
[20:56] <zequence> Sure. I mean, it shouldn't have to take longer than needed, so we can spend time on other things too.
[20:56] <sakrecoer> i like the 3rd idea... :) but it would imply a blogpost for feature tour..
[20:56] <zequence> If it happens to be next week or two months from now, I think is irrelevant
[20:56] <autumna> sakrecoer we probably at least will need to create a custom div style and make it 100% to put the whole thing in there
[20:56] <zequence> sakrecoer: Not a blog post. A page. Its' different
[20:57] <autumna> I think.. or as knome recommended, to have a different body type
[20:57] <sakrecoer> the good thing about updating tge layout of website later is that we have a good reason to poke everyone on social media
[20:57] <autumna> so either way that is happening
[20:57] <zequence> There are some limitations as to what you can do in html from inside WP
[20:57] <autumna> *nods*. I think we can pull it off with the current layout
[20:58] <autumna> actually.. wait how do we create a custom page type?
[20:58] <sakrecoer> ok, i thougt the onky diff between blogpost and page is that blogposts show up in the blogroll...
[20:59] <autumna> actually
[20:59] <autumna> I wonder if we can do it without it being a custom page, but just a page
[20:59] <zequence> sakrecoer: The editing between a page or post is no different, but how they are organized is
[20:59]  * autumna goes to try
[21:00] <zequence> autumna: We can't, if we want images to have full width, while text has adaptive width
[21:00] <zequence> There's no way to link the html from the page to a custom css. That's why we need a custom page
[21:01] <autumna> I see
[21:01] <zequence> There are plugins that allow you to create custom pages, and I suppose they create custom html elements, but I wouldn't want to mess too much with that
[21:01] <zequence> Let's sort out the elements we want, and see how we can best implement them
[21:01] <knome> again, you only need a custom page template
[21:02] <zequence> knome: How do we do custom backgrounds for different divs in the content?
[21:02] <zequence> ..with a custom page template
[21:02] <knome> you'll still need to control that separately
[21:03] <knome> the template would allow you to have full-width content
[21:03] <zequence> But, let's focus on what we want to customize first, ok?
[21:03] <knome> one option is to load the different "modules" as autumna described above, but i think that's a bit hacky
[21:04] <knome> and my guess is that ultimately, you end up wanting to change more than you can with that kind of template and thus requiring code updates via IS
[21:05] <knome> i imagine you ideally want to change the feature tour in a major way only every 2 years with a new LTS
[21:05] <knome> it's not so bad to have to ask IS for updates once in two years
[21:06] <zequence> Yeah, if we only update certain pages that often, it would be no problem
[21:06] <zequence> Even once every 6 months is ok
[21:06] <knome> indeed
[21:06] <knome> in reality, i request for updates from IS to the xubuntu website maybe once a month or two
[21:07] <knome> they are even really responsive as we track the code in bzr and keep the changes in relatively small batches
[21:07] <knome> and they don't really need to do code review for CSS
[21:07] <knome> but if you had a PHP template you needed to update... yeah, it would likely take longer
[21:08] <zequence> autumna: sakrecoer: The bottom of the feature page has bullets for things we want to customize. Please add new bullets if you think of any https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial#Things_we_want_to_be_able_to_do_in_our_custom_pages:
[21:16] <autumna> it does look like we need to be able to either layer divs on top of each other, or have a custom div type that we can put background in yes, but also style, margins etc.. again I might be stating the obvious.
[21:17] <autumna> (is anybody else getting 500s trying to login?)
[21:19] <zequence> autumna: Yes, that would be the technical solution side of it. I don't have a clear idea myself how to best do it, but some sort of custom divs will be needed
[21:20] <zequence> If using the WP page editor, the question is how we can do stuff like full width images from there. And, my first thought is adding a class to a html tag in the html editor
[21:20] <knome> i'm worrying that you are overthinking it and that it'll end up being really wonky anyway
[21:21] <zequence> knome: If we do that, maybe you can help straighten us out once we know more exactly how we want to do things :)
[21:21] <knome> let's see
[21:22] <knome> i want to help, but if it's something completely custom, then i don't know if it's sensible for me to put a lot of work into it
[21:23] <zequence> No, and I wouldn't want to do that either myself
[21:23] <autumna> ok question.
[21:23] <autumna> will the backgrounds change?
[21:23] <zequence> autumna: Which backgrounds?
[21:24] <autumna> the backgrounds of the feature tour. unless we plan to use this custom page style for something else as well?
[21:24] <zequence> the feature tour sakrecoer is more of a mockup, where he used existing art
[21:24] <zequence> But, I say we keep what works
[21:24] <autumna> I know but the point is, there is 4 categories. intro, audio software, video software and graphic software
[21:25] <autumna> are we likely to add or remove categories from the page?
[21:25] <zequence> Nope
[21:25] <autumna> then what we basically need is 4 content areas
[21:25] <zequence> autumna: I was able to login to the wiki just now. Took a little while though
[21:25] <autumna> *tries again*
[21:28] <autumna> if we can have 4 content areas to edit ( a normal page just has one) then we are fine. it is also hacky but.. at least it doesn't go into plugin territory like the individual pages idea. the other option I can really think is the individual modules thing which is more like a modified blog really which is.. complicated
[21:34] <sakrecoer> i think i'd better step back from here, not much i can do to help with wordspress except feeding back on results.. but if i had to do it myself, i'd host the feature tour in html in a subdomain pointing to some github pages,veffectively allowing us any shape or form without having to bother RT..
[21:35] <sakrecoer> i'l focus on the content instead :) texts and those icons
[21:35] <zequence> sakrecoer: We might customization on other pages as well, and be able to change them at any time
[21:35] <zequence> We can't have the whole site as subdomains
[21:35] <zequence> Particularly if we decide to have the feature tour as the front page
[21:36] <autumna> let me see if there is a plugin we can use, that will have the same result
[21:36] <sakrecoer> makes sense... what would canonical think of us having the hole site on github?
[21:37] <zequence> There's still the option of having totally custom pages, not editable from WP, but without subdomains
[21:37] <zequence> Just need a little bit of php to work that out
[21:37] <zequence> But, nothing major
[21:38]  * zequence not knowing exactly how, but will find out
[21:40] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[21:40] <autumna> or we could go into a different direction..
[21:40] <autumna> https://wordpress.org/plugins/featured-pages-customizer/ and use something like this
[21:40] <autumna> *brainstorms*
[21:41] <sakrecoer> shoot just shoot autumna
[21:41] <sakrecoer> :)
[21:43] <zequence> autumna: You can always install them on your staging site and try to reproduce something similar to what sakrecoer did
[21:43] <autumna> *nods*
[21:43] <autumna> I might do that
[21:43] <zequence> Just as proof of concept
[21:53] <autumna> ok I think I found something
[21:54] <autumna> http://getonepager.com/ trying this now will report findings ;D
[22:02] <zequence> Seems respins are imminent, though will take some time to complete
[22:02] <zequence> So, tomorrow is ISO testing day
[22:24] <autumna> yay
[22:29] <Rosco2> cross fingers - here it comes
[22:30] <Rosco2> respins started
[22:32] <sakrecoer> \o/
[23:04] <autumna> zequence: sakrecoer ok this is not remotely done but: http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour just to give an idea of what we can do with a plugin. The default options are a bit limiting but it seems enough to get things done?


[19:35] <nhandler> I was just thinking, do we have a list of *.ubuntu.com websites anywhere (like debian does for debian.net sites)? Also, do we have a formal policy for getting an ubuntu.com subdomain for ubuntu projects?
[20:41] <jpds> nhandler: Yes; it's called DNS.
[20:41] <nhandler> jpds: I meant a nice, human editable list on the wiki (or somewhere similar)
[20:42] <jpds> Don't think so.
[20:42] <jpds> And I imagine if we did; it would go horribly out of sync.
[21:32] <knome> isn't people hired to take care of stuff like that?