[07:01] <bkerensa> hmm no dholbach
[07:05] <JoseeAntonioR> bkerensa: that's what I was thinking about
[17:40] <pleia2> still need summaries for "In the blogosphere" and "In other news"
[17:44] <s-lion> pleia2: hey ^^ thought you were playing ;)
[17:56] <pleia2> hah :) played a lot yesterday, heading out to a LUG meeting in a few
[17:57]  * s-lion is sitting on a balcony watching formula 1
[18:03] <JoseeAntonioR> s-lion: are you watching it live?
[18:06] <s-lion> JoseeAntonioR: i am not in canada ^^ nope ... tv life show
[18:06] <JoseeAntonioR> oh
[18:06] <JoseeAntonioR> I'd love to watch it live
[18:10] <pleia2> MrChrisDruif: flavors meetings?


[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo everyone =)
[00:23] <DoctorMO> hey bodhi_zazen
[00:28] <GaryY_> r my messages being seen?
[00:29] <GaryY_> is anyone online?
[00:30] <DoctorMO> GaryY_: I see you
[00:31] <DoctorMO> pleia2, Vantrax, bodhi_zazen:
[00:31] <Vantrax> yo
[00:31] <DoctorMO> Do we have an agenda for this meetng this evening?
[00:31] <Vantrax> in theory...
[00:32] <DoctorMO> We have bodi and pleia confirmed as not making it, so I'm just pondering
[00:32] <Vantrax> i have nothing to report
[00:32] <Vantrax> and elmo is an elusive individual
[00:34] <Vantrax> im going to be trying to finish the theme this weekend too
[00:34] <DoctorMO> OK, no updates on themes from me, stalled by lack of know how re moodle and php
[00:34] <DoctorMO> Although I do really want to get the header fixed so it floats in a nice way.
[00:34] <Vantrax> also, in 3-4 weeks ill be free to do alot more, ill be home for 2-3 months on nappy changing leave
[00:35] <Vantrax> header fixed?? whats wrong with it?
[00:36] <Vantrax> I do need to change that mouseover to a brown ... that blue is shocking
[00:36] <DoctorMO> Vantrax: I have some new ideas I want to try out, nothing is wrong with it currently. My foot in mount.
[00:37] <Vantrax> ahh
[00:37] <Vantrax> cool:P
[00:37] <Vantrax> im just going to get this version working well, then we have lots of time to tweak and test.
[00:37] <DoctorMO> The idea is to have the block part of it as the banner and then the part that pops out of it, have that float downwards into the menu.
[00:37] <Vantrax> ooh..
[00:37] <Vantrax> nice idea
[00:38]  * Vantrax thinks its beyond my current abilities
[02:25] <DoctorMO> No meeting then?
[02:25] <DoctorMO> Doesn't look like it, it was on for 25 mins ago right?
[02:26] <DoctorMO> And our meeting chair (cprofit) and meeting date organiser (pleia2) are both away
[20:44] <bodhi_zazen> did the meeting happen yesterday ?
[20:47] <pleia2> nope, skipped it since not enough people were around
[20:59] <DoctorMO> Aye
[20:59] <DoctorMO> No meeting
[20:59] <DoctorMO> No meeting organisers
[21:02] <pleia2> and I promised Dougie that our next meeting would be earlier :)


[18:06] <JND|2> Hello folks.
[18:07] <JND|2> sorry for the bother but I have a couple of questions.
[18:07] <JND|2> I'm a professional programmer, but dumb questions to arise.
[18:08] <JND|2> For the 12.10 remix, which download do I take? I have a spanking new lenovo C30 high-end intel chips, all 64bit.
[18:08] <JND|2> Its a workstation but I'll load the ubuntu desktop so I have an interface.
[18:08] <JND|2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10
[18:09] <JND|2> I read 'Desktop CD for 64-bit PC computers...' and 'Desktop CD for PC (Intel x86 compatible) computers'
[18:10] <atrus> JND|2: how much ram do you have?
[18:10] <JND|2> there's also the hyphen filenames, ubuntu-gnome-xxx-desktop-amd64 or -desktop-i386.
[18:10] <JND|2> 8GB
[18:10] <JND|2> and may expand in the future to 16
[18:10] <atrus> you probably want 64bit (same thing as amd64)
[18:11] <JND|2> I do want 64 bit, certainly.
[18:11] <atrus> what's the question exactly then?
[18:11] <jbicha> 'AMD64' is just because AMD was the company that created that architecture; Intel uses the same thing
[18:12] <JND|2> I didn't know which binary to take. You've answered: amd64.
[18:12] <atrus> that does get confusing
[18:12] <jbicha> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
[18:12] <JND|2> I see, right, they have their architecture agreement for 30 yrs ago or so
[18:12] <JND|2> nice wiki reminder.
[18:13] <JND|2> another question: is there a usb stick install from the windows dropdown?
[18:13] <JND|2> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows
[18:14] <JND|2> this spanking new computer is running windows, until I annihilate it (shortly)
[18:16] <JND|2> a final question -- I've seen some chatter about virtualbox not working well on ubuntu 12.10. Any comments here about it?
[18:22] <jbicha> I believe VirtualBox needs more work before it supports Ubuntu 12.10 as a guest very well
[19:04] <JND|2> jbicha: I see, ok.
[19:04] <JND|2> I love VB, its an essential tool bc there are some programs that just run on (yikes!) windows.
[19:05] <JND|2> For instance, WinEdt for latex, which is the best. Its only on windows. I've written them many many times over the years, but they will not write a linux or mac version.
[19:05] <JND|2> I think they're too tied to their gui, too tightly coupled.
[19:05] <JND|2> pity
[19:10] <jbicha> for tex, you could try texmaker or texstudio which are in the Ubuntu repositories
[19:13] <Guest35445> I've written a book, book-length lecture notes, etc.
[19:14] <Guest35445> that winedt manages projects seamlessly is a big advantage.
[19:16] <Guest35445> yeah, I don't see remix in the ubuntu windows installer dropdown.
[19:16] <Guest35445> Just fyi.
[19:20] <jbicha> could you post a screenshot?
[19:27] <Guest35445> http://www.winedt.com/
[19:27] <Guest35445> if that's what you mean.
[19:30] <Guest35445> so, another dumb question. I'm downloading the amd64 torrent file for the remix. Its writing to my HD. Do I just copy this iso to the USB? Do I have to change the boot order or something ?
[19:32] <jbicha> I meant a screenshot of whatever installer you are using
[19:33] <Guest35445> got it.
[19:33] <jbicha> hmm, I don't know how to use pendrivelinux's tool
[19:34] <jbicha> basically you'll need to extract the iso to your USB flash drive and then make the flash drive bootable
[19:35] <Guest35445> thanks. how do I extract the iso?
[19:35] <jbicha> I'm not sure how best to do that from Windows
[19:35] <Guest35445> I'm sure I'll find a tool on the web for the extraction.
[19:35] <jbicha> you can extract the iso with something like 7-zip.org but you'll still need to figure out the bootable part
[19:35] <Guest35445> got it. ok, that's a help already.
[19:36] <jbicha> or you could just burn the iso image to a DVD
[19:36] <jbicha> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/burn-a-dvd-on-windows
[21:15] <Guest35445> rufus seems to have done the trick.
[21:15] <Guest35445> I'm going to reboot and install remix. See you on the other side.


[05:07] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:53] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:57] <SuperMatt> good morning
[07:57] <brobostigon> morning
[08:21] <popey> Good morning. TFIF
[08:26] <brobostigon> morning popey
[08:31] <MooDoo> popey: howdy, and yes indeed...
[09:17]  * diddledan looks at clock..
[09:17] <diddledan> too early ! :-p
[09:19] <MooDoo> diddledan: i was here at 5:30 :D
[09:19] <MooDoo> AM!
[09:19] <diddledan> gah
[09:19] <diddledan> that's silly-o'clock
[09:24] <MooDoo> diddledan: means I get to go home at 1:15 :D
[09:24] <diddledan> nice
[09:26] <MooDoo> diddledan: not really, got to pull up some tree stumps in the garden later lol
[09:27] <diddledan> dang. and after being awake at silly-o'clock, too!
[09:27] <MooDoo> yeah :D  ah well
[09:27] <diddledan> you're gonna be knackerd
[09:27] <MooDoo> diddledan: already am pmsl, it'll be worth it any way
[09:27] <MooDoo> get to put a manshed in their places :D
[09:27] <diddledan> grr man
[09:28] <diddledan> man beer
[09:28] <diddledan> beer grr
[09:28] <MooDoo> going to be my computer room
[09:28] <diddledan> awesome
[09:28] <diddledan> I'd have one, but I'm not sure you can put a shed up in a block of flats
[09:29] <diddledan> maybe I should put a conservatory on my non-ground-floor flat
[09:29] <MooDoo> diddledan: even the wife gave me permission to do it lol
[09:29] <diddledan> do it quick before she changes her mind
[09:30] <MooDoo> heh
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> you could put a wendy house up in a flat... :-)
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> but give it a cool web 2.0 name like a privacy pod... :-P
[10:15] <diddledan> 160 Terror Bits Per SECOND: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/22/microsoft_and_facebooks_transatlantic_cable_completed/
[10:16] <zmoylan-pi> that's a lot of cat videos...
[10:29] <MooDoo> wow uber license in london not being re-issued :S
[10:51] <diplo> I just read that too, going to be a big kick off about that for sure
[10:52] <MooDoo> diplo: yeah especially if the appeal fails
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> seemingly while the appeal is pending they can continue...
[10:54] <MooDoo> yeah but it's still a worriying 21 days for 40,000 uber drivers in london
[10:54] <diplo> Yup, I can't see it being stopped really... would be a huge uproar. I guess that Uber will agree to some changes
[10:55] <diplo> A few of my friends work in London and they hate london taxis, not just for price.. only use uber now
[11:02] <MooDoo> guess we'll see over the next few weeks
[11:07] <diplo> I forgot they also have lyft and things, so maybe it won't be so bad
[12:47] <foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivpCKEiQOQ hitler uses docker
[12:52] <diddledan> foobarry: gotta admit, he has a point
[12:53]  * diddledan drops this one and runs: https://youtu.be/HNMq8XS4LhE
[12:56]  * zmoylan-pi rings rspca and tells them about diddledan...
[12:56] <diddledan> :-p
[13:32]  * diddledan hums the music
[13:32] <diddledan> that's an earworm
[13:34]  * diddledan puts spotify on to try to drown out those evil sheep
[14:14] <diddledan> I wonder why my PC just hung hard: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25592609/
[14:15] <diddledan> that's the last log messages before it died
[14:21] <diplo> Hung the whole PC or just the DE ?
[14:22] <diplo> I liked unity, but compiz was/is a beast imo
[14:22] <diddledan> this time it was the whole PC - I've had others in the past where I could REISUB it
[14:23] <diplo> Only time I get hard crash is failing hardware really
[14:23] <diddledan> same behaviour in both cases tho
[14:23] <diddledan> hmm
[14:23] <diddledan> it's fairly new system
[14:24] <diddledan> the oldest thing in there is a GTX960
[14:24] <diplo> I had a brand new server, live for 2 weeks and afailed memory module
[14:24] <diplo> hah that was the issue at my home PC, the gfx card dieing
[14:24] <diddledan> is the GFX dead or just poorly driven by nouveau though!?!
[14:25] <diplo> Ah, could be nouvea, always used nvidia stuff myself, mine was the card itself dieing
[16:42] <SuperEngineer>  Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService .... as one Uber driver said to the other.
[16:51] <diddledan> hmm?
[18:07] <diddledan> awesome! http://pandaprecision.net/en/minimz/
[18:36] <m0nkey_> I just sent some guy back to the land of Linux
[18:36] <m0nkey_> It clearly wasn't working out in BSD land
[18:48] <diddledan> m0nkey_: but .. FREEDUMZ
[18:49] <diddledan> you'll be telling people to use Microsoft next
[18:49] <diddledan> stallman would be turning in his grave
[18:50] <diddledan> that, of course, requires stallman to be deaded
[18:50] <diddledan> so, who's up for a murder party?
[18:50]  * diddledan lights some pitchforks
[18:55] <daftykins> m0nkey_: is that a bit like getting a really bad parents evening?
[18:56] <m0nkey_> nah
[18:56] <m0nkey_> guy even said it himself that he's more comfortable in linux
[18:56] <m0nkey_> anyway
[18:56] <m0nkey_> time to go home
[18:56] <m0nkey_> cya folks
[18:56] <daftykins> hehe i popped into my Dad's workplace this evening for a laugh, quick glance at his PC - "updates were last installed September 2015"
[18:57] <diddledan> ouch
[18:58] <daftykins> and that was true for the whole domain XD
[19:02] <diddledan> farp
[19:02] <diddledan> that's a serious neglect
[19:03] <daftykins> ikr
[19:07] <daftykins> and they have a whole support company XD
[19:15] <diddledan> you mean they're paying for nonpatch-tuesdays?
[19:16] <daftykins> yep! well they have this Windows small business server 2011 which is apparently server 2008 R2 + exchange 2011, (EOL 2020) someone hasn't remoted in and authorised the updates from the last 2 years
[19:17] <diddledan> "we're inundated with constantly applying MS updates. What can you do to help us?" <-- "well Mr business, pay us a lot of money and we'll make sure you never see another patch again. in fact we'll never apply any patches at all!"
[19:18] <daftykins> 8D
[19:19] <daftykins> "now if you excuse me, i have a call waiting from Mr. Equifax"
[19:19] <diddledan> HAH!
[19:19] <diddledan> equifax keep fumbling the ball they dropped
[19:19] <diddledan> they still haven't managed to actually pick it up again yet
[19:20] <daftykins> :D it's really quite poor, yet none of us are really that surprised by a huge company failing so hard
[19:20] <daftykins> i made a joke to the CSO today at the local HSBC branch when i opened an account, as i had to give my permission to do a credit check which apparently involved Equifax and someone else
[19:22] <diddledan> "you know that company who lost all your details? yeah, want us to give them some more to lose?"
[19:23] <diddledan> I can't believe they set up a separate domain that looks phishy as heck for everyone to check into. Not only that, but they tweet the WRONG DAMN DOMAIN sending people to the actually phishy site not just the one that looks phishy
[19:26] <daftykins> *nod*
[19:26] <daftykins> shows they can't even pick up the phone to another department
[19:36] <diddledan> I wonder if anyone has thought of an ape-based porn a la "Kinky Kong"
[19:37] <daftykins> rule 34
[19:37] <diddledan> :-p
[19:37] <diddledan> really must read that
[19:56] <m0nkey_> Want.. https://twitter.com/NetgateUSA/status/911276781705056257
[19:57] <daftykins> nothing like being an early adopter ;)
[20:04] <zmoylan-pi> or as we call them masochists... :-P
[20:04] <daftykins> :D
[20:05] <diddledan> mysogenists?
[20:05] <daftykins> haha i had an email from one of the guys with access to my clients Spain apartment, i'd asked him to arrange reconfiguring the ISP fibre router to bridge mode so our own router could be used, i got a reply that they were very hot and on reboot "the ISP router wifi is back" which means it has reset itself o0 not very good signs
[20:06]  * zmoylan-pi remembers the film best defense from 80s which dealth with this very problem... :-)
[20:08] <zmoylan-pi> who ever thought to put dudley moore and eddie murphy in a comedy was bonkers...
[20:14] <diddledan> wonderwoman is out on download midnight monday morning
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> midnight monday morning... so i need the tardis to arrive at that time? :-)
[20:16] <diddledan> yup
[20:18] <daftykins> i managed to miss Valerian at the cinema, but i best make a special effort for the new Blade Runner
[20:30] <diddledan> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pioneers-third-challenge/
[20:30] <diddledan> love tht
[20:30] <diddledan> that*
[20:31] <diddledan> now how do I convince them I'm 15?
[20:33] <daftykins> a question that in so many other circumstances would put you behind bars
[20:33] <daftykins> :P
[20:34] <zmoylan-pi> dust off your skateboard... wear baseball cap and jeans incorrectly... :-)
[20:34] <daftykins> "greetings fellow kids, i too enjoy $cool_band"
[20:35] <daftykins> diddledan: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/666/fellowkids.jpg
[20:35] <diddledan> I was just googling for that
[20:35] <daftykins> aww $music_band
[20:35] <daftykins> ;D
[20:35] <daftykins> i had 'steve buscemi young'
[20:36] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lNBMGmGF0
[20:36] <daftykins> wow that's brief
[20:38] <diddledan> yeah, that's what my friend said
[20:38] <diddledan> "friend"
[20:48] <diddledan> I just had this advertised at me on variety.com: https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/simgad/533845224675914945
[20:48] <diddledan> I really cannot even
[20:49] <zmoylan-pi> you browse without adblockers?!
[20:51] <daftykins> AND he has a mac ;_;
[20:56] <daftykins> we might have to promote not-shauno within the late night group
[21:15] <daftykins> oh that was amusing, the CSO in HSBC today told me that they're only now tearing themselves apart from HSBC up there in England, took their time!
[23:27] <diddledan> apparently startrek discovery is gonna be good: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2017-09-20/the-first-reviews-for-star-trek-discovery-are-in-and-they-may-surprise-some-people/
[23:28] <daftykins> i dunno, some 'murican pals shared that they're apparently going to explore themes on the current political climate over there within the eps
[23:41]  * zmoylan-pi finishes watching an episode of b5
[23:42] <daftykins> cor
[23:42] <daftykins> on a 3310? ;)
[23:44] <zmoylan-pi> i'm tempted if i do get one to convert a few tv shows to it's video format... probably just porridge, yes minister, blackadder, cheers as they were shot to be watch on titchy tv...
[23:47]  * zmoylan-pi puts on episode of red dwarf... :-)
[23:49] <daftykins> is it Quarantine?
[23:52] <daftykins> Jeff Buckley - Dream Brother
[23:52] <daftykins> aaaah.
[23:52] <zmoylan-pi> smeeeeee heeeeeee
[23:57] <diddledan> http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3460132/linda-hamilton-back-sarah-connor-terminator-6/


[21:51] <James147> oxymoron: wierd, it ahs always done it for me (i always use manual partitions though)
[21:52] <oxymoron> James147: I always use manual as well, I choosed /home on /sda2 and / on /sdc2, I didnt format /sda2 though. Seems like it has to be formatted to be added to fstab :P Well I can add it myself, not that hard :P
[21:52] <buckfast> what exactly is 'moodbar' in amarok?
[21:52] <James147> oxymoron: it should need to be formatted, i never format my /home and its always been added
[21:53] <James147> oxymoron: not sure why it did that with you :S
[21:53] <buckfast> the seekbar in amarok is always the same, no matter if i have it enabled or disabled
[21:54] <James147> buckfast: I think it attempts to give a "mood" to each song depending on the song and you can select a type of mood you wish to listen to (or at least thats what I thyink it should do but i havnt tryed it yet)
[21:56] <oxymoron> James147: Yes really weird I must say, I should have formatted it I think :P Then I wonder why on earth my NTFS volumes isnt added to fstab but is mounted anyway? :S
[21:57] <James147> oxymoron: :S only reason i can think the ntfs isnt in fstab and is mounted is that you clicked on it in dolphin or the device manager
[21:58] <oxymoron> James147: On the installation process or after it? :P
[21:58] <James147> oxymoron: after
[21:59] <James147> oxymoron: i would think : boot-ntfs unmounted --- clicked on it in dolphin-dolphin mounted it... but thats onyl a guess
[22:00] <oxymoron> James147: I have clicked on them in Dolphin yes, but they werent added anyway :P
[22:17] <oxymoron> "No valid partition found on disk"? :S Eh why on earth does Partitionmanager says that? :S I even have the disk mounted succesfully on my system :D
[22:17] <James147> oxymoron: unmount the disk :)
[22:18] <oxymoron> James147: Why so? :S
[22:18] <James147> oxymoron: you should try to reformat mounted filesystems
[22:18] <James147> oxymoron: so my guess would be that partitionmanager is guarding agienst that
[22:18] <oxymoron> James147: I will NOT reformat them, they are newly formatted.
[22:18] <billybobbigdong> do i need the alternate install disk to do software raid?
[22:19] <James147> oxymoron: then why do you need partition manager?
[22:19] <oxymoron> James147: No partitionmanager found the other partitions that is mounted. It says invalid partition table on ONE of them, but the table is NOT invalid.
[22:19] <oxymoron> James147: Well, I use it to check some things on my drives sometimes.
[22:19] <James147> oxymoron: hmm
[22:20] <lovre> hi all
[22:20] <billybobbigdong> do i need the alternate install disk to do software raid?
[22:20] <James147> oxymoron: not sure, you could try fdisk and see what that says (commanlind partitioner)
[22:20] <lovre> i have made some changes to /etc/modules, can i reload this without restarting the computer?
[22:21] <oxymoron> James147: Fdisk and which options?
[22:22] <James147> oxymoron: sudo fdisk /dev/sdXX    then press p to print the partition talbes
[22:22] <James147> oxymoron: sorry, /dev/sdX  (not XX)  replacing x with teh disk drive letter
[22:23] <James147> oxymoron: you can press q to quit without making any changes
[22:23] <oxymoron> James147: It says, partiions in table isnt in order wtf? :S
[22:23] <James147> oxymoron: :S no clue
[22:24] <James147> oxymoron: i would think somehitngs wrong with your aprtitions, i suggest backing up the data thats on them :S
[22:24] <oxymoron> James147: It says partition one overlap partition 3 :O And then I ONLY have one single partition on it xD
[22:25] <James147> oxymoron: O_o  somehting is wrong there
[22:25] <James147> oxymoron: again i suggest a backup of the data, then if it where me i would refomat the drive
[22:25] <oxymoron> James147: I dont have enough store to backup that drive, its 500 GB and used all of it :D And yes something is wrong with sectors with start and end. How to fix it? :S
[22:26] <technodenbow> haven't been on an IRC server in years. What'd I miss?
[22:26] <James147> oxymoron: backup anything important then :) anything you cant afford to lose as anything you do to try to fix it has the change of breaking somehting
[22:27] <James147> technodenbow: years worth of support ^^
[22:27] <James147> technodenbow: :D
[22:28] <dominicdinada> I need help with the b43 fwcutter it is not allowing me to apt-get install
[22:28] <James147> oxymoron: you can try running fsck (not on a mounted filesystem)  (look up the man page before running it)
[22:28] <oxymoron> James147: I cant backup it that fast, and most things I cant afford to loose, like all seasons of Macgyver and Prison Break :D In other partition programs like partition magic on Hirens Boot CD it doesnt show errors. I think I would have to boot from Hirens CD again and analyse and fix table to make partitions go good again :P
[22:30] <James147> oxymoron: I still suggest backup as much of the critical data as you can :)
[22:30] <oxymoron> James147: "fsck: fsck.ntfs: Not found fsck: Error 2 when fsck.ntfs runned for /dev/sdb1"
[22:31] <James147> oxymoron: bah, ntfs... best to fix it in windows
[22:32] <oxymoron> James147: I only have ntfs because if I want to access the data in Windows I dont need to install complex protocols to access data :P
[22:33] <oxymoron> James147: Linux have better support for ntfs then Windows have for ext :P
[22:33] <James147> oxymoron: thats ok, its just better to try to fix it from inwindows then
[22:33] <oxymoron> James147: Yes, Hirens Boot CD have partition magic and Windows XP Mini so I can fix it there :P
[22:33] <James147> oxymoron: i dont trust the ntfs tolls in linux that much yet :)
[22:33] <James147> tools ^^
[22:35] <oxymoron> James147: Neither do I :P I dont trust partition tools yet either, but soon partition manager for KDE rocks and is going more stable and faster.
[22:36] <oxymoron> I just miss more settings, features for grub and editing and copying whole partitions between each other and then a freaking preloader :P
[22:43] <diabolical> Where is the software and package manager in kubuntu I switched to k from ubuntu with the update
[22:43] <James147> diabolical: its called "kpackagekit"
[22:44] <diabolical> When I run it I only see the update portion :/
[22:44] <zus> is everyone enjoying the 10.4 release?
[22:44] <James147> zus: 10.04  is nice :)
[22:45] <zus> James147,  i just finished burnning my disc from the torrent.
[22:45] <alessandro_> zus: Hey, still there
[22:45] <alessandro_> zus: I'm alessandro  (florence)
[22:45] <zus> alessandro_,  yes i am here but for a few minutes yet
[22:46] <alessandro_> zus: what a zombie!
[22:46] <James147> diabolical: there should be three tabs down the side... unless its running in upgrade mode (usually because you clicked the update icon from systray) try closing it and opening kpackagekit form the menu
[22:46] <zus> alessandro_, according to k3b i have my live disc,..sooo
[22:47] <zus> lets have a look...ill see you all in a while
[22:47] <James147> diabolical: or close it and Alt+F2 > type: kpackagekit <enter>
[22:47] <alessandro_> zus: lucky, still downloading
[22:47] <diabolical> Ok I reloaded it now
[22:47] <zus> alessandro_, this was the torrent file you linked me
[22:48] <diabolical> It opens up and nothing is listed maybe I need to grab the Ubu software package
[22:48] <James147> diabolical: nothing is listed by default, type the program name to search or selecte one of the catigories
[22:48] <zus> diabolical,  nothing will be listed, not like in ubuntu where there is a list
[22:49] <zus> diabolical,  you have to type in the name of the program and its program and libraries will show up
[22:49] <James147> diabolical: there is little point in loading the entire list on start up as it can take a little bit of time and 99% of the time the user dosnt need the whole list :S
[22:49] <diabolical> Just not liking that nothing is loading up
[22:49] <James147> diabolical: if you know the program search for it, otherwise you can filter the results by catigory
[22:49] <zus> James147,  lol you type faster than i...
[22:49] <James147> zus: yeah but i also cant spell
[22:50] <diabolical> Searched for Xampp, Blue Fish, And Ubuntu and no results
[22:50] <zus> diabolical,  me either i felt lost and i didint even know what program i wanted by name...imagine me asking for help in here
[22:50] <James147> diabolical: you also need to refresh the lists (can do that on the upgrade tab)
[22:50] <James147> ^^ s/upgrade/software updates tab/
[22:51] <diabolical> I believe I did so already
[22:51] <rafa_> hello =)
[22:51] <diabolical> First thing to install is the Ubuntu package and software managers
[22:51] <zus> diabolical,  are you using kubuntu now?
[22:52] <diabolical> because if i dont know Exactly what I want... I like browsing 20 Editors descriptions to read and check for ratings
[22:52] <diabolical> yes
[22:52] <James147> diabolical: "bluefish" gets a hit for me (not "Blue Fish"
[22:53] <James147> diabolical: you can also chnage the filter from "filter by name" to "filter by discription"
[22:53] <zus> diabolical,  same  here  i was so lost with out the list...
[22:54] <diabolical> I have refreshed it 5 times I also made sure that the CD is unchecked blah :P what are the 2 packages for the ubuntu package manager and software center
[22:54] <James147> diabolical: heh, and if you click on a different catigory then select "all packages" again it seems to load the list
[22:55] <zus> diabolical,  this is  for  KARMIC. i dont know if there is a lucid one yet,...but http://kubuntuguide.org/Karmic
[22:55] <oxymoron> James147: Hey btw now I cant activate desktop effects, it only says check settings i X config settings? :S
[22:55] <diabolical> Thank you
[22:56] <zus> diabolical,  i've been using kubuntu karmic 9.10 for a month now.
[22:56] <James147> oxymoron: whats the exact error message and what graphics card do you have?
[22:57] <James147> zus: then i take it you are liking it so far :)
[22:57] <diabolical> zus I had karmic for quite sometime and I decided I wanted to try Kub and already I have done so as They have said many times and I cant even get one search to turn up a package
[22:57] <diabolical> hehe
[22:58] <diabolical> Hey I got a result finally "text" turned up 43
[22:58] <zus> James147,  yes i love it i got the ubuntu lucid in 10 minutes but waited 4 hours for kubuntu torrent
[22:58] <diabolical> zus: the website took me like 13 mins to download
[22:59] <diabolical> not enough people are seeding lucid yet i guess
[22:59] <James147> diabolical: by the way, kpackagekit search through the package name in a bit of a dumb way :( soy uo need to know part the the package name
[22:59] <zus> diabolical,  i  got the torrent link before the site updated for me, but i was seeding  untill now
[22:59] <oxymoron> James147: Failed activating desktop effects, goes back to default values. Control your X-settings and then check more advanced modes like built type.
[22:59] <oxymoron> James147: I cant translate fully because I got error message in sweden :D And I have nVidia grpahic card 7950 GT
[23:00] <James147> oxymoron: have you enabled the nivida drivers?
[23:00] <diabolical> Right james but I like the ubuntu package, software managers because if I want say a PHP editor I type in php and get 20 results and ratings
[23:00] <zus> James147,  i gave a list of the repositories but it was from karmic,...anything on lucid? or will i just install the same repositiories from medibuntu
[23:01] <James147> diabolical: you can always install it if you want to
[23:01] <oxymoron> James147: Aha lol, I have not activated nvidia proprietary drivers yet. I forgot I had a clean isntall for a moment :D
[23:01] <diabolical> I am starting to figure out at least why I am not getting results but trying to find out why is the problem
[23:01] <James147> oxymoron:  :D
[23:02] <James147> diabolical: kpackagekit dose need some work on it to make it easier, but for now you can either install the other package managment software you like or just get useto kpackagekit (or use aptitude :D)
[23:03] <diabolical> True
[23:03] <oxymoron> James147: Thanks though :) I feel like a n00b sometimes even if I have used Kubuntu since7.10 :D
[23:04] <zus> diabolical, if you used ubuntu and installed kubuntu desktop, then log out log in with gnome and write down your names of what you want then log back into kubuntu and search again,,..
[23:04] <James147> diabolical: remember that it searchs for packagenames :) so spaces in the search box will result in no results (or at least i think)
[23:04] <diabolical> What category would the ubuntu package resourse's be in  ? Gnome desktop ?
[23:04] <James147> oxymoron: think i have been using it since 7.04 or 10... but I have borken my system many times learning how to use it :D
[23:04] <diabolical> * Package Manager resourses
[23:04] <zus> James147, i find that to be true, at least case sensitive either
[23:05] <zus> im out..
[23:05] <James147> diabolical: probally, isent it called "synaptic"?
[23:05] <diabolical> yes thats synaptic but then the other one also
[23:05] <James147> diabolical: dont know gnome very well sorry :p
[23:06] <diabolical> haha
[23:07] <yofel> oh, hey oxymoron, long time no see :P
[23:07] <diabolical> I will ask in the ubuntu channel
[23:08]  * James147 thinks its aobut time to install lucid.... and do his coursework
[23:08] <kde185> I'm having some trouble installing kubuntu netbook 10.04 on my eee 1000, the  installer hangs at 47% when it's scanning the ssd's right before going to the disk setup screen.  Anyone know if this is a common problem?
[23:09] <yofel> diabolical: the main ubuntu package manager now is the Ubuntu Software Center, just search for it in krunner or Kmenu if you had gnome installed too
[23:09] <oxymoron> yofel: Hi, thanks :)
[23:09] <diabolical> No I got rid of Gnome with the 10.4 update but dont like the package manager/software tools
[23:09] <oxymoron> yofel: My video problem solved now finally :D
[23:10] <yofel> good to hear :)
[23:10] <James147> *cough*10.04*cough*  :D
[23:10] <oxymoron> yofel: Or not solved I just did a clean install and all things works, mor things were solved and a HELL lot of more stable and nice features disovered.
[23:10] <diabolical> i know it is 10.04 but 10.4 sounds better or maybe 004
[23:10] <diabolical> :P
[23:11] <oxymoron> yofel: Now attention interaction thing in Cairo dock finally works for instance <3
[23:11] <yofel> I never used cairo dock so I have no idea what you're talking about :P
[23:11] <diabolical> Yikes Synaptic needs 67 other packages with it lmao
[23:11] <James147> kde185: umm, i would suggest checking the disk for defects (can do that from the menu when you boot the live cd)
[23:12] <James147> diabolical: yeah, it will be pulling in gnome dependencies
[23:12] <kde185> James147: alright I'll give that a go and maybe try and enable some debug flags if I can
[23:12] <oxymoron> yofel: Its hard to explain but its been an issue long time ago which did so I missed IM-messages on Kopete, Kmess and so on before.
[23:15] <ubuntu___> James147: are you there?
[23:15] <oxymoron> yofel: FInally plymouth works as I want it as well and boot time as amazingly fast now :P
[23:15] <James147> ubuntu___: I am
[23:16] <yofel> heh
[23:16] <ubuntu___> James147: im in live disc on quassel, its so wired looking..this is zus
[23:17] <James147> ubuntu___: define "wired looking"
[23:17] <oxymoron> yofel: The resolution and color depth wasnt working before as it should and gfxpayload did that my fan goes high noise dB :D
[23:17] <ubuntu___> James147: for one, am i in the kubuntu channel?...
[23:17]  * James147 looks around...
[23:17] <James147> ubuntu___: i think so :)
[23:18] <ubuntu___> James147:  ok then, brb.. i use  x chat so quassel is odd, for me...
[23:18] <diabolical> ok got the package manager and software center installed :P
[23:19] <yofel> oxymoron: well, plymouth needs KMS for proper resoultion and color depth, so it will only work out of the box with nouveau, you need gfxpayload with the proprietary driver
[23:19] <oxymoron> yofel: Now its not that annoying "_" char blinking before plymouth, now it goes fast and smooth into plymouth in like 5 seconds and then autologin and sweet KDE4 boot and then on desktop <3 The only thing that doesnt look nice yet is grub2, it need gfxboot soon :P
[23:20] <ubuntu___> it kinda looks the same as before...i was hopeing to be shocked and amaze.
[23:20] <oxymoron> yofel: Yes, I have KSM, used nouveau and added gfxpayload before but still wouldnt work :P But then you know I had other problems as well :P
[23:20] <oxymoron> yofel: All my problems disappared when I did clean isntall :P
[23:20] <James147> ubuntu___: where you using kde4.4.x before? if so then its not going to look much different
[23:21] <diabolical> Does anyone have apache2 mysql and php installed on kub ?
[23:21] <yofel> yeah, well it didn't work with my intel card too a few days ago, rebooted today and it looked fine again :)
[23:21] <ubuntu___> James147:  yea you walked me though the  update && upgrade to 4.4.2 before
[23:21] <oxymoron> diabolical: Yes?
[23:21] <James147> diabolical: have them on my server (running ubuntu server)
[23:21] <James147> ubuntu___: i cant remember that far back :D i barly remember what i was doing 10 mins ago
[23:22] <diabolical> oxymoron: Not the lampp right ? When I get the default packages does it include any libraries like common ones ?
[23:22] <diabolical> I used to use lampp but if the other packages come with a good standard library i might go that route
[23:22] <oxymoron> yofel: It didnt work for me today. I will never upgrade from one version of the distro to another, I had problem from 8.04 => 8.10, 9.10 => 10.04 and so on when did dist-upgrade. You always need to do clean isntall to migrate good :P That will need to be worked out in future releases of *buntu I would say.
[23:23] <ubuntu___> James147:  i get it ...duh! so familiarity is good...then.9.10 with 4.4.2 isnt much different than, 10.4 kde4.4.2?
[23:23] <oxymoron> diabolical: I usually install all packages manually, not with lampp and that kind of meta packages :P
[23:23] <James147> ubuntu___: kde wont be much different, but other packages might be
[23:24] <yofel> oxymoron: well, you're right there, I can't be very objective there as I always upgrade to the alpha and then reinstall at some point because it's unrecoverably broken :P
[23:24] <ubuntu___> i didint stray too far from default packages....
[23:24] <diabolical> ok :( Just dont want to always have to download one of the 500 packages 1 by one each time I am working on a project to see that I don't have a certain lib installed
[23:24] <James147> ubuntu___: they will have changed other things, you might find a faster boot time for example, diffent splash screens but kde will largly be unchanged
[23:25] <ubuntu___> James147:  alright, thanks so my world isnt shaken too much. upward and onward...
[23:26] <ubuntu___> going to install, this for a main os, i want to look at what pclinuxos is about as well
[23:26] <James147> ubuntu___: but inable 3-4 mounths kde 4.5 will be released (if they have done what they usually do, need to check on the kde release schedual at some point)
[23:27] <ubuntu___> James147:  you said faster boot times,  do i still have to make a 128MB boot partition
[23:28] <James147> ubuntu___: you dont 'need' a /boot paritiion (dont think it would make much difference to boot time though)  | (unless you have an lvm setup then you might need a /boot partition)
[23:29] <peteyk> quick kubuntu 10.04 question: when I switch to different desktops, how do I get it so that the minimized windows from desktop 1 will not show up on other desktops?
[23:29] <James147> ubuntu___: I tend to ahve a 15-20gig parition for /   and the rest of the space for /home   (and a swap file on one of the partitions)
[23:29] <peteyk> in other words, I have Firefox and Thunderbird open on desktop 1, and when I switch to desktop 2 I would like to have a blank task manager
[23:30] <peteyk> nevermind guys I found it
[23:30] <peteyk> lol
[23:30] <ubuntu___> James147:  lvm? but i  need to add windows/kubuntu/"various os"
[23:30] <James147> peteyk: in the task bar? right click the taskbar > task bar settings > somehting to do wiht only shoing windows form current desktop
[23:30] <oxymoron> yofel: Yes, I usually also upgrade first to alpha, then go with beta on updates bu automaticly, then rc and then stable. Thats quite boring because there is only minor feature adds every time you upgrade to next development step in the cycle :D So when stable release is realaesd you get dissapointed mostly :D But when I did clean install that got changed now with 10.04, seriously it looks absolutely amazing and installer is
[23:30] <oxymoron> really nicecly done.
[23:30] <James147> ubuntu___: lvm... logical volume manager (if you dont know then you wont ahve it)
[23:31] <dominicdinada> Is there any good frontend for apache/sendmail ?
[23:31] <ubuntu___> James147:  agree. verywell then see you as zus  on the other side of the install.
[23:31] <moderndayzero> does anyone know if there is a channel for Emulator support. or if anyone has a moment to help me out
[23:32] <yofel> moderndayzero: we won't know if we can't help you if we don't know your problem, so fire away
[23:33] <moderndayzero> well earlier i had issues while trying to get emulators working fully on 10.4 with no such luck
[23:34] <moderndayzero> emulators for NES ,SNES ,GBA ,N64 ,PSX ,PCSX2, Dolphin etc.....
[23:35] <moderndayzero> im new to linux and i tried my windows versions through Playonlinux and only a set few work.
[23:35] <moderndayzero> i also tried the linux versions but with alot of sound and/or lag issues
[23:35] <diabolical> How do I make it so that damn kwallet doesnt keep popping up for auto wlan?
[23:36] <yofel> well, at least for snes9x and visualboyadvance we have them in the repos
[23:36] <moderndayzero> vba lags
[23:36] <moderndayzero> and sound is choppy
[23:37] <moderndayzero> and snes9x runs great but for some reason i cant config my usb controller " assign the buttons" in the emulator
[23:37] <James147> diabolical: you can store network keys in a planne text file from the network magers settings
[23:39] <James147> diabolical: Right click knetworkmanager > Manage connections > Other > connection secrets > ...
[23:39] <oxymoron> yofel: "export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 && vlc" How do I make that export thing go global in like bashrc?
[23:39] <diabolical> I will try now
[23:41] <oxymoron> yofel: Because I got same problem again when I installed Cairo dock and started it in OpenGL mode xD
[23:41] <diabolical> ok
[23:41] <diabolical> Welcome back James147
[23:41] <James147> diabolical: ty, on my netbook now installing 10.04 on my desktop :D
[23:42] <reagleBRKLN> Just upgraded a kubuntu machine to Lucid, but during boot it gets stuck at "checking battery state", I can do stuff in a console, but can't get a normal X/KDE boot.
[23:42] <Blues-Man> hi all
[23:42] <yofel> oxymoron: if you don't mind starting apps from the terminal just add it to .bashrc, I'm not sure what the best option for a system wide setting would be (/etc/profile maybe)
[23:42] <Blues-Man> do you know any kde related  issue about karmic -> lucid upgrading? i'm afraid..
[23:42] <Blues-Man> :)
[23:43] <diabolical> Nice I do notice the kde desktop is more cpu intensive than gnome I need to shut down some unwanted daemons
[23:43] <smokealot> whoohooo!
[23:43]  * diabolical has an old hp zv5000 1gig ram laptop i run ubuntu on
[23:43] <James147> diabolical: nepomuk is a resouce killer atm :)
[23:43] <oxymoron> yofel: Well I dont want to start them from terminal I want to open video files in Dolphin and then just start video :P And HOW to add it to bashrc, not sure that only export will work :P
[23:43] <diabolical> what is nepomuk for ?
[23:44] <Blues-Man> anyone here upgraded from karmic?
[23:44] <James147> diabolical: it indexes your files to allow for fast serching as well as allows you to tag files and folders
[23:45] <diabolical> haha I don't need that so I am searching through the settings to find the start up settings
[23:45]  * James147 is slightly shocked to see both screens working on the live usb O_o
[23:45] <James147> diabolical: nepomuk is in System settings > advanced tab > nepomuk
[23:46] <diabolical> correct i just came accross that setting
[23:46]  * James147 dosent like mirroed screens
[23:46] <diabolical> kded is also a resourse hog
[23:47] <smokealot> not for me i got 10gigs of ram!
[23:48]  * James147 glares at smokealot
[23:48] <yofel> oxymoron: what I would try: right klick on the Kmenu -> open menu editor
[23:48] <diabolical> well Like i said before this is an old hp zv5000 2.8ghz 1gig ram and 10gig hard drive i ressurected and run kubuntu on
[23:48] <Ellhound`Laptop> hm
[23:48] <smokealot> i was joking (:
[23:48] <Ellhound`Laptop> kubuntu install fail :x
[23:48] <Ellhound`Laptop> had to manually install grub
[23:48] <oxymoron> yofel: Oh no, that will be ugly :D
[23:48] <Ellhound`Laptop> on 10.4
[23:49] <yofel> oxymoron: not that much
[23:49] <yofel> oxymoron: go to multimedia->dragon player and replace the command field with 'XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 dragon %u' save the configuration and see if it helps when you try to open the file from dolphin
[23:50] <muffin2> Hi guys
[23:50] <muffin2> After I log out on kubuntu, KDM won't start again.
[23:50] <muffin2> What happened?
[23:50] <muffin2> I just see a black screen.
[23:50] <muffin2> I have to press Ctrl+Alt+F1 to log on as a root.
[23:50] <moderndayzero> yofel so any ideas?
[23:52] <yofel> moderndayzero: not really, the only thing I ever tried was visualboyadvance, where I ended up compiling the upstream source which wasn't as laggy
[23:52] <moderndayzero> i have no clue on how to go about doing that
[23:52] <yofel> me neither as that was quite some time ago
[23:53] <moderndayzero> any idea on where to go to get help?
[23:53] <reagleBRKLN> my kde packages didn't go well, installing kdm gets me beyond battery state
[23:53] <reagleBRKLN> which meta package installs all of the important KDE stuff in lucid?
[23:54] <yofel> reagleBRKLN: kubuntu-desktop should take care of that
[23:54] <RnFstRuckHrd> Hello all - is there any word on when we can get at the server version?
[23:54] <reagleBRKLN> thanks
[23:54] <James147> wow, the nv drivers are working alot better now :d i can now use a live usb without unpluging one of my monitors
[23:54] <yofel> James147: nv? you're using karmic?
[23:55] <James147> yofel: upgrading to lucid, running a live usb atm
[23:55] <yofel> James147: lucid dropped nv, we're using nouveau now
[23:55] <James147> yofel: forgot to unplug my monitor (again) and was suprised to see it not screw up :D
[23:55] <yofel> heh
[23:56] <yofel> yeah, that was a know nv issue for a long time :/
[23:56] <James147> hmm, to delete ~/.kde  or not.....
[23:56]  * James147 has alot more hdd then he thourght
[23:57] <muffin2> Does anybody know why kdm won't restart after I log out on kubuntu?
[23:57] <diabolical> Ok system is still a little slower :/
[23:57] <diabolical> what did you modify ?
[23:57] <muffin2> After logout, there is no KDM but a blank screen.
[23:57] <yofel> muffin2: does starting kdm again from tty start it?
[23:57] <muffin2> yofel : I don't have to type it
[23:57] <James147> muffin2: what version of kubuntu?
[23:58] <muffin2> 10.04
[23:58] <muffin2> I downloaded it hours ago
[23:58] <muffin2> It's a stable version.
[23:58] <benkevan> best thing to do after you install kubuntu .. is disable nepomuk HAHA
[23:58] <yofel> benkevan: not really, just disabling strigi is enough here
[23:58] <James147> O-o have 3 updates on my live usb... for the installer :S
[23:59] <muffin2> Why does kubuntu have this kind of problem?
[23:59] <muffin2> Should I install OpenSUSE or Mandriva for KDE?
[23:59] <yofel> James147: when did you fetch the iso?
[23:59] <James147> yofel: today
[23:59] <yofel> James147: erm, today as in after the release was announced?


[21:26] <ogra> does it have warty in the executable name ?
[21:26] <lool> I see what this is now
[21:26] <ogra> :)
[21:26] <cjwatson> ogra: no, but it's that vintage ...
[21:26] <lool> it's the one telling us about broken deps and stuff
[21:26] <cjwatson> maybe hoary, I forget
[21:26] <cjwatson> lool: It's http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/
[21:26] <lool> right
[21:26] <cjwatson> and testing-ports
[21:27] <lool> asac, ogra: So unity-lens-applications will be there in something like 25 mn
[21:28] <ogra> yeah, so next build will have it
[21:29] <cjwatson> lool: bit longer I think, publisher run in progress that doesn't include it
[21:29] <lool> ah right
[21:29] <cjwatson> which is at the domination stage
[21:29] <ogra> well, it wont be faster than nusakan :)
[21:29] <ogra> and i wont start a new build immediately
[21:29] <lool> there is really a domination stage in the published?
[21:29] <lool> *publisher
[21:29] <lool> gosh
[21:29] <cjwatson> totally
[21:29] <cjwatson> Daniel Silverstone wrote it
[21:29] <cjwatson> what do you expect
[21:29] <lool> lol
[21:30] <ogra> hah
[21:30] <lool> asac, ogra: You guys want a qtubuntu upload?
[21:31] <ogra> do you feel like taking the blame ? dider gets really grumpy usually :)
[21:31] <asac> lool: did sil2100 give up?
[21:31] <lool> on unity8? dunno
[21:31] <asac> no ... on qtubuntu
[21:31] <ogra> lool, no, he wanted to look into the delay issue
[21:31] <lool> ah I missed that
[21:31] <lool> I see it now
[21:31] <lool> cool
[21:32] <lool> good news
[21:32] <sil2100> lool: I published unity8, at least so it seems
[21:32] <asac> :)
[21:32] <asac> please double check
[21:32]  * asac stares at proposed
[21:32] <sil2100> asac, lool: I think indeed there might be something wrong with jenkins
[21:32] <asac> sil2100: you can check qtubuntu already ... we hit reload :)
[21:32] <lool> sil2100: and unity-mir, cool
[21:32] <sil2100> Looking and looking
[21:32] <cjwatson> ok, lillypilly archive jobs seem to be cycling a bit more reasonably now
[21:32] <asac> lool: so is our unity-lense now useless?
[21:33] <asac> and needs another push?
[21:33] <lool> asac: no
[21:33] <ogra> just delayed
[21:33] <ogra> next image ...
[21:33] <asac> lool: thought we just pushed a new libunity :)
[21:33] <lool> asac: it will come in the next publisher pass in 45 mn at worst and then we can build another image with it
[21:33] <lool> asac: the binary is tested
[21:33] <lool> asac: unity8 and unity-mir, so we need to test these together I guess
[21:33] <lool> in an image
[21:33] <asac> oh it was just an aautomatic >=
[21:33] <asac> that will work at least :)
[21:34] <asac> lool: which packages do i need to install? do you know?
[21:34] <lool> sil2100: can you help me merge back into bzr for lp:unity-lens-applications?
[21:34] <asac> unity8 and unity8-private is installing
[21:34] <lool> sil2100: do I have to wait for some job, or do I just take the saucy source and commit it there / send a mp?
[21:34] <asac> unity-mir doesnt happen automatically
[21:35] <asac> lool: afaik just changelog merge is even enough to trick the system
[21:35] <asac> so yeah. merging all back should work
[21:35] <cjohnston> D/16
[21:35] <lool> asac: unity8 and unity8-private for unity8
[21:35] <sil2100> lool: I guess prepare a merge request for lp:unity-lens-applications with the change you released and have someone approve
[21:36] <lool> asac: libunity-mir1 for unity-mir
[21:36] <asac> ok
[21:36] <lool> sil2100: it's missing the other things staged in PPA there though
[21:36] <asac> it doesnt pull that automatically though
[21:36] <lool> sil2100: will just copy the changelog then, thanks
[21:36] <asac> so seems its not really tightlocked
[21:36] <asac> ok
[21:36] <asac> i installed both
[21:36] <asac> will run autopilot after reboot
[21:36] <asac> lool: libunity-mir1
[21:37] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6130063/
[21:37] <asac> lool: ^^
[21:37] <asac> that one
[21:37] <lool> asac: looks good
[21:39] <asac> ok rebooting and testing
[21:39] <lool> sil2100: can you push the changelog updates for the other packages though?
[21:39] <lool> sil2100: like qtubuntu etc.
[21:39] <lool> sil2100: gallery-app for instance
[21:39] <cjwatson> proposed-migration running
[21:40] <sil2100> lool: ah, the ones that got manually published?
[21:40] <cjwatson> actually you don't care do you, it already migrated
[21:40] <lool> sil2100: yes
[21:40] <asac> :)
[21:40] <asac> better more than less info in this case i guess
[21:40] <sil2100> I ran the qtubuntu job right now and it seems to work, not sure why it didn't work before - how did you fire the stacks?
[21:40] <lool> cjwatson: actually the unity8 ones haven't yet
[21:40] <cjwatson> publisher's mostly done, in germinate
[21:40] <asac> sil2100: here:
[21:40] <asac> 23:03 < robru> ./cu2d-run -r saucy -R platform --check-with-whole-ppa
[21:41] <ogra> but he also claimed he sees delays between 4 and 7h often ... the merge is in since 7h now
[21:41] <asac> right
[21:42] <lool> cjwatson: while I'm at it, what's the timing of britney run + duration?
[21:42] <sil2100> hmm, we *never* had problems like that ;p
[21:42] <cjwatson> lool: you can look through http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/
[21:42] <lool> sil2100: what's the command /you/ used?
[21:42] <asac> sil2100: do you use --check-with-whole-ppa ?
[21:42] <asac> the output of -h looks a bit suspicious
[21:42] <sil2100> asac: most of the time no, because it's not recommended to use that
[21:43] <asac> as if it is a -dryrun thing
[21:43] <asac> right
[21:43] <sil2100> We actually should use that only in special cases
[21:43] <lool> cjwatson: ah great
[21:43] <cjwatson> the whole archive-reports chain tries to run every minute (if not locked) and sees if there's anything new
[21:43] <asac> sil2100: ok. what does it do?
[21:43] <cjwatson> drat, this proposed-migration run missed the publisher
[21:43] <asac> sil2100: oh i guess it allows to pull everything from ppa to check
[21:43] <asac> i see
[21:44] <sil2100> asac: it forces a dist-upgrade during the testing phase, which basically means we're upgrading everything that goes - which can break dependencies, as we might be testing things we don't want to
[21:44] <asac> right
[21:44] <asac> sil2100: do you know where we can see the real bzr command and what errors/warning it spits out for those jobs?
[21:44] <cjwatson> ah, but this publisher run was just -proposed, so really quick
[21:44] <asac> sil2100: just wondering as we couldnt find any
[21:44] <asac> just the version summary :)
[21:44] <cjwatson> final: bikeshed,blktap-dkms,curtin,edubuntu-server,intel-microcode,linux-goldfish,munin,ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu,unity-lens-applications
[21:45] <lool> cool
[21:45] <cjwatson> does that include what you're waiting for?
[21:45] <lool> not unity8
[21:45] <lool> nor unity-mir
[21:45] <asac> yeah. guess it was not even in proposed :)
[21:45] <cjwatson> those indeed weren't even considered
[21:45] <lool> right
[21:45] <sil2100> asac: the thing is... I checked the job logs and the problem is that no bzr command was even executed - it looked as if jenkins invalidly started the jobs, not running the 'prepare' scripts at all
[21:45] <sil2100> asac: so it's an empty log, no errors, no real commands
[21:45] <lool> I think they just got published to proposed now, so now can be part of next britney run
[21:45] <sil2100> asac: it just finished the job with 'success'
[21:46] <asac> lool: they are not on excuses yet ... so ... :)
[21:46] <ogra> so jenkins had a successful day while we hadnt ?
[21:46] <cjwatson> oh, bah
[21:46] <lool> sil2100: maybe folks have tried running the jobs without the right build params?
[21:46] <ogra> thats unfair !
[21:46] <asac> sil2100: the prepare script runs a "normal" bzr? or is that some built in bzr sync feature we use in jenkins?
[21:46] <cjwatson> so those were published the publisher run ending 21:42:09
[21:46] <asac> sil2100: normal == bzr cli
[21:46] <cjwatson> and proposed-migration started JUST before that
[21:46] <cjwatson> like seconds
[21:46] <lool> eh
[21:46] <sil2100> lool: maybe? But if using the cu2d-run tools it should be done automatically, but not sure...
[21:47] <lool> sil2100: dunno then
[21:47] <cjwatson> so, yeah, next p-m run
[21:47]  * fginther heads out to a family function will be back on line this evening
[21:47] <lool> sil2100: it would be cool if you could try publishing gallery-app etc. as to land the changelogs automatically  :-)
[21:47] <sil2100> asac: no, it's using python and bzrlib I think
[21:47] <lool> fginther: bye
[21:47] <asac> sil2100: ok. but it is our code that does the bzr stuff?
[21:47] <sil2100> lool: will try now!
[21:47]  * cjwatson hurries it along
[21:47] <asac> if it was jenkins i would not rule out complete craziness
[21:48] <lool> sil2100: these are the ones: address-book-service address-book-app history-service telephony-service dialer-app webbrowser-app gallery-app
[21:48] <lool> sil2100: platform-api qtubuntu upstart-app-launch url-dispatcher
[21:48] <sil2100> asac: well, on jenkins there's a script that runs our python script
[21:48] <lool> sil2100: last one is the scope, but I can do that one by hand
[21:48] <sil2100> lool: ok, I'll publish those applications (at least try)
[21:49] <asac> sil2100: ok. at least its in our control then
[21:49] <sil2100> asac: and it seems as if jenkins didn't execute that script even
[21:49] <sil2100> asac: as if it suddenly had an 'empty' script for the job
[21:49] <asac> yeah. seems hard to figure that out though :)
[21:49] <lool> sil2100: thanks
[21:49] <sil2100> Strangeness, but might happen
[21:49] <asac> e.g. the fact that something didnt run
[21:49] <sil2100> It's jenkins after all!
[21:49] <asac> yeah ignore
[21:49] <asac> of course :)
[21:49] <asac> jenkins
[21:49] <asac> racy
[21:49] <asac> those are the two common excuses :)
[21:50] <asac> most common
[21:50] <asac> and i like to cite at least jenkins as well :-P
[21:50] <ogra> image is done
[21:51] <ogra> (cdimage that is)
[21:51] <cjwatson> p-m is running, racing the next publisher start
[21:51] <asac> ogra: we didnt wait :)?
[21:52] <asac> hehe
[21:52] <asac> guess was a wise decision
[21:52] <asac> we can still spin more
[21:52] <asac> ogra: so after this image we have partly working video lense etc.?
[21:53] <cjwatson> publisher wins :-/  unity8 will be another cycle
[21:53] <lool> so 45mn? damn
[21:53] <cjwatson> but it has at least migrated
[21:53] <cjwatson> final: curtin,gnome-control-center,mininet,mokutil,munin,ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu,unity-mir,unity8
[21:53] <ogra> asac, i'd like to spin another one right away once the current inflight stuff is done
[21:54] <lool> good news is that the two are valid candidates
[21:54] <lool> cool
[21:54] <asac> right
[21:54] <asac> ogra: sounds good
[21:54] <cjwatson> oh damn, the race got REALLY unlucky
[21:54] <asac> i like valid candidates :)
[21:54] <ogra> as soon as qtubuntu is there
[21:54] <asac> on no... another race :-P
[21:54] <cjwatson> I think we may have half of that - unity-mir without unity8
[21:54] <ogra> ouch
[21:54] <asac> lol
[21:55] <sil2100> :O
[21:55] <asac> thats the result of too much hurry
[21:55] <lool> sil2100: did you say you had pushed qtubuntu to ppa?
[21:55] <asac> usually next time you try to kick it the server would go down :-
[21:55] <cjwatson> nah, it's an edge case that hardly ever happens
[21:55] <lool> sil2100: or maybe it's still under test in jenkins befor eit goes there?
[21:55] <cjwatson> unless you really need it not to
[21:55] <asac> the server down? yeah. i hope its not happening today
[21:55] <asac> hehe
[21:56] <cjwatson> so, er, yeah, I suggest not spinning images after the next publisher run, wait for one after that ...
[21:56] <sil2100> lool: no, it didn't land in the PPA, since there seems to be a changelog race in qtubuntu, would have to check what's up
[21:56] <ogra> lool, thats what i was suspecting
[21:56] <sil2100> lool: was there some direct-push?
[21:56] <lool> not of qtubuntu
[21:56] <ogra> no
[21:56] <asac> is there anything to do still? like waiting for qtubuntu?
[21:56] <ogra> asac, yes
[21:57] <lool> asac: uploading qtubuntu to PPA, copy to distro, move to proposed, build image
[21:57] <sil2100> Wait, but qtubuntu is in the archive since 1 hour, right?
[21:57] <lool> sil2100: that's another one
[21:57] <asac> lool: where is that process?
[21:57] <asac> sil2100: what? i thoguth we just build it :)
[21:57] <lool> asac: sil2100 is trying to unblock the qtubuntu from bzr to go to PPA AIUI
[21:57] <asac> or rather started to build a fresh one from r178
[21:57] <sil2100> lool: it seems 0.52+13.10.20130919-0ubuntu1 is not in lp:qtubuntu and that's a problem
[21:57] <lool> sil2100: so that's the copy-package thing breaking it then
[21:57] <asac> hmm. someone had an itchy finger maybe
[21:58] <asac> lool: we didnt copy-package that, did we?
[21:58] <lool> asac: we did
[21:58] <asac> oh yeah
[21:58] <sil2100> lool: let me merge that into trunk and unblock
[21:58] <asac> well but it should be in there
[21:58] <asac> we didnt upload on our own
[21:58] <lool> and because it had other changes, it couldn't be merged back I guess?
[21:58] <asac> we just took what was in the ppa
[21:58] <lool> sil2100: thanks
[21:58] <asac> sil2100: so the merge happen after the publish?
[21:58] <asac> and since we skipped the publish the automerge didnt happen... ok
[21:59] <sil2100> asac: yes, those are after publishing, since otherwise we would be having millions of changelog entries of packages that didn't get released
[21:59] <lool> asac: the thing is that it was stuck from bzr to PPA, PPA version was out of date; I think the scripts expect that they have latest bzr in PPA when it gets copied to distro, then they quickly update bzr with changelog
[21:59] <asac> sil2100: so we also did some damage to the unity lense
[21:59] <asac> sil2100: aye. makes sense
[21:59] <lool> asac: they dont expect the PPA version to be out of date like it was
[21:59] <sil2100> asac: so the merge is done when publishing happens
[21:59] <asac> lool: what about the other ones we copied?
[21:59] <asac> guess we have to bring them all back :)
[21:59] <lool> asac: we need to merge them quickly  :-)
[22:00] <asac> lool: right. do you remember which?
[22:00] <asac> :-P
[22:00] <lool> asac: that's why I was pinging sil2100 to try to "publish" them  :-)
[22:00] <asac> all the apps etc.
[22:00] <lool> asac: I pasted the list to sil above
[22:00] <asac> ok
[22:00] <asac> so publishing will cure it
[22:00] <asac> smart
[22:00] <lool> hoping
[22:00] <asac> lool: i think the pbulisher looks at proposed
[22:00] <lool> might have to nuke a check / upload in the script in case it doens't
[22:00] <asac> so once its there its too late i guess
[22:01] <asac> well. we can fix thigns tomorrow :)
[22:01] <asac> fixingfriday :)
[22:01] <asac> ff
[22:01] <sil2100> lool: gallery-app etc. should be fixed now, I could do that in case of qtubuntu but I think it might be risky now that I already re-ran the prepare job
[22:01] <lool> sil2100: I dont see updated bzr in gallery
[22:01] <asac> didier is only back monday... just need to ensure the house is clear when our daddy comes back :)
[22:01] <sil2100> lool: https://code.launchpad.net/~ps-jenkins/gallery-app/latestsnapshot-0.0.67+13.10.20130919.3-0ubuntu1/+merge/186671
[22:02] <sil2100> lool: it's merging
[22:02] <sil2100> ;)
[22:02] <lool> sil2100: would you mind trying to merge unity-lens-applications too?
[22:03] <lool> I dont care about the no change rebuild cl entry, also would rather send just that one as a mp if possible
[22:03] <lool> sil2100: qtubuntu >> ack
[22:03] <sil2100> lool: ok, trying!
[22:04] <lool> ogra: what's ETA for image?  :-)
[22:04]  * lool brushes teeth
[22:05] <ogra> lool, for building a new one ?
[22:05] <ogra> qtubuntu
[22:05] <lool> ogra: for the current one
[22:05] <lool> ogra: oh you have not started one?
[22:05] <ogra> lool, or did you miss above that the last one was done
[22:05] <lool> I missed that
[22:05] <lool> I dont see it
[22:05] <lool> oh it's 19
[22:05] <cjwatson> ogra: is there any point until both unity-mir and unity8 have published?
[22:05] <lool> just no other build today
[22:05] <cjwatson> lool: ^-
[22:06] <lool> cjwatson: we can test the other things we've landed
[22:06] <ogra> cjwatson, no
[22:06] <cjwatson> oh the last one
[22:06] <cjwatson> ok
[22:06] <lool> we could even promote the image
[22:06] <ogra> lool, the etsting takes a few now ...
[22:06] <ogra> (hours)
[22:06] <ogra> *testing
[22:07] <lool> true
[22:07] <ogra> we have promoted what we had already
[22:07] <lool> but if testing passes for n-1 and not for n, can we still promote n-1?
[22:07] <ogra> (and i think i'd prefer to promote the next one)
[22:07]  * lool got the system update, woohoo
[22:07] <asac> lool: in theory yes
[22:08] <asac> lool: i am not yet 100% convinced that testing an old image reslly tests the real old setup
[22:08] <asac> e.g. i believe it takes autopilots from apt
[22:08] <asac> so we might just test the new stuff :)
[22:08] <lool> asac: correct
[22:08] <asac> (partly)
[22:08] <lool> asac: but isn't there a strict dep?
[22:08] <lool> asac: also, does it apt-get update?  I think not
[22:08] <asac> i am sure we just run apt-get install application-autopilot
[22:08] <robru> ogra, lool, asac: what happened with qtubuntu? it looks like you guys copied from the ppa, but you still only got r177? should I rebuild again to try and get r178?
[22:08] <asac> i think that brings the latest autopilot
[22:08] <asac> lool: for that we need test packs :)
[22:09] <lool> asac: but if we don't apt-get update,we try to install the version that was available at image build time
[22:09] <cjwatson> if it doesn't apt-get update it will be what was current at the time the image was built
[22:09] <ogra> robru, i think sil2100  is on it
[22:09] <lool> snap
[22:09] <asac> lool: i am sure they run apt-get update after addinng ppas :/
[22:09] <sil2100> Ok, jenkins is b0rken
[22:09] <asac> yeah... see
[22:09] <sil2100> robru: no worries, on it
[22:09] <asac> i said just above that next that will happen is that the server goes down :)
[22:09] <ogra> its racy
[22:09] <asac> so not the publisher, but jenkins :-P
[22:09] <ogra> :P
[22:09] <asac> at least
[22:10] <robru> sil2100, can you let me know what the deal is? I've been poking at this for most of the day
[22:10] <cjwatson> asac: used to be the curse of Debian releases
[22:10] <cjwatson> there were like two or three in a row that had serious hardware trouble on the same weekend
[22:10] <asac> yeah. good it that it happens every day somewhere in our CI infrastrucuture
[22:11] <cjwatson> crash-only software
[22:11] <asac> so we will learn how to deal with that for times when its really important
[22:11] <asac> hehe
[22:11] <asac> so much for the theory
[22:11] <cjwatson> it's a good theory
[22:11] <cjwatson> but it has to not crash sometimes too if you're going to get anywhere :P
[22:11] <lool> yes!
[22:11] <asac> right
[22:12] <lool> asac: so with image 57, I can play a file I find in the music scope
[22:12] <asac> the right mix of fail and success is important to keep folks happy and challenged
[22:12] <asac> hehe
[22:12] <asac> lool: you can?
[22:12] <asac> wow
[22:12] <asac> lool: i dont see anything in the music scope though
[22:12] <asac> i assume that also has landed?
[22:12] <ogra> copy something :)
[22:12] <lool> asac: you have to upload something
[22:12] <asac> i dont have music :0
[22:13] <lool> over MTP for instance  :-)
[22:13] <cjwatson> ah, I think unity8/unity-mir might have published now
[22:13] <lool> cjwatson: thanks
[22:13]  * asac rips a mp3 out of an avi
[22:13] <cjwatson> checking
[22:13] <asac> :)
[22:13] <lool> asac: http://polemix.dooz.org/
[22:13] <lool> hmm these are too big
[22:13] <lool> asac: http://www.polemixetlavoixoff.com/podpress_trac/web/1670/0/hollandemoi.mp3
[22:14] <asac> why would i want hollande on my phone :)
[22:14] <asac> even in french
[22:14] <lool> it's a trojan
[22:14] <ogra> lol
[22:14] <asac> ogra: get a merkel please
[22:14] <asac> :)
[22:14] <asac> j.k.
[22:14] <ogra> dude ! no merkels in my network
[22:14] <lool> well it's a hollande montage actually, meant as a parody
[22:15] <lool> the site has parodies for our other beloved politicians
[22:15] <cjwatson> lool: unity8> ah no, I'm mistaken, sorry
[22:15] <lool> sil2100: cool gallery-app cl landed
[22:15] <cjwatson> but it is publishing now
[22:16] <asac> this mtp thing is not mounted as a fs? e.g. i need to use mouse to copy stuff in there?
[22:17] <sil2100> lool: awesome, I fixed qtubuntu changelog right now as well, and pushed unity-lens-apps too so that the changelog should be ok
[22:17] <lool> sil2100: <3
[22:17] <asac> ogra: after copying music to Music/ folder... do i need to reboot?they dont show in 56
[22:18] <ogra> upgrade then :)
[22:18] <asac> ok so the UI landed too?
[22:18] <asac> thats what i was asking
[22:18] <ogra> didnt a mediascanner fix land ?
[22:18] <asac> unfortunately i am not on the proposed channel ... so
[22:18] <asac> yeah it did
[22:18] <ogra> the UI is there since a while
[22:18] <asac> doesnt crash at least anymore
[22:19] <asac> ok let me reboot then
[22:19] <ogra> right ... that should populate the UI
[22:19] <asac> ls /var/crash/
[22:19] <asac> _sbin_ureadahead.0.crash  _usr_bin_mediascanner-service.32011.crash
[22:19] <asac> :)
[22:19] <asac> so... guess it doesnt crash for photos
[22:19] <asac> but for music now :)
[22:19] <asac> and we dont have a music capture test
[22:20] <sil2100> I think I'll go to sleep now
[22:21] <asac> sil2100: before you go ... is qtubuntu building in ppa or what is the status?
[22:21] <sil2100> asac: let me check
[22:21] <lool> asac: search for something in the music lens
[22:21] <lool> music will sohw up
[22:21] <asac> we can binary copy over if one is awake stull :)
[22:21] <lool> I think mediascanner doesn't startup automatically unless you search, just a guess
[22:21] <asac> just can merge back tomorrow
[22:21] <sil2100> lool, asac: uh, it's not building I guess...
[22:21] <asac> ok nevermind then
[22:21] <asac> we might just pump it in sideways
[22:22] <asac> and deal with the damage tomorrow
[22:22] <asac> sil2100: good night!!
[22:22] <sil2100> Since the missing changelog entry is a problem, since cu2d doesn't know if it got released or not
[22:22] <sil2100> So we need to wait for the changelog merge I made to land and then re-run the stack
[22:22] <asac> sil2100: yeah. i think we cant do that :)
[22:22] <asac> but thats ok
[22:22] <asac> just go
[22:22] <asac> thanks
[22:22] <sil2100> asac: robru can help!
[22:22] <sil2100> :)
[22:22] <lool> sil2100: URL of the merge?
[22:22] <asac> yeah. we can try the command one more time
[22:22] <lool> sil2100: 'night
[22:22]  * cjwatson -> bed.  unity8/unity-mir should be visible inside 10mins or so
[22:22] <sil2100> lool: let me find that
[22:23] <asac> cjwatson: thanks!! have a good night
[22:23] <sil2100> asac: I instructed robru on things that might be good to try
[22:23] <asac> ok
[22:23] <asac> ttyt
[22:23] <cjwatson> in fact they should be there now for anything pulling directly from ftpmaster.internal
[22:23] <cjwatson> including image builds
[22:23] <sil2100> If, of course, jenkins won't do some strangeness again
[22:23] <lool> cjwatson: 'night
[22:23] <cjwatson> so I think you can go ahead with that
[22:23] <robru> asac, yeah, sil2100 told me of a different way to do things that is worth trying.
[22:23] <lool> bed too for me I think
[22:23] <robru> but I have to leave in an hour ;-)
[22:23] <cjwatson> (if you want to)
[22:24] <asac> robru: so probably wouldnt work anyway. ok
[22:24] <asac> so ogra,lool ... your call... side shoot?
[22:24] <asac> would take 1.5 hours till we get an image kick going?
[22:24] <ogra> manual ?
[22:24] <robru> well, I can try it when I get back. but if you guys are in a hurry I guess just manual upload is best on short notice
[22:24] <asac> ogra: well if we can test it before
[22:24] <asac> that woudl be good
[22:24] <lool> sil2100: ofund it
[22:24] <sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/qtubuntu/fix_changelog/+merge/186675
[22:24] <sil2100> Yea
[22:25] <ogra> asac, lets leave it until tomorrow morning then, if robru manages to massage it through over night i can kick off a build in the morning
[22:25] <sil2100> lool, asac: I guess it'll take a short while for the merge to get in
[22:25] <asac> sil2100: thx
[22:25] <asac> go off now
[22:25] <sil2100> asac: so robru should be able to be on time to re-launch the stack
[22:25] <robru> yeah, jenkins should land that merge within an hour.
[22:25] <asac> ogra: not sure ... robru said he is gone soon :)
[22:25] <lool> sil2100: ok thanks
[22:25] <asac> robru: you sure?
[22:25] <sil2100> Goodnight, good luck!
[22:25] <asac> thanks!
[22:25] <asac> :)
[22:26] <asac> robru: is it running already :)?
[22:26] <robru> sure of what? I'm sure I need to leave in an hour, because I have a date ;-)
[22:26]  * vila goes back to bed, this channel is a live thriller, can't wait to read the backlog tomorrow ;)
[22:26] <asac> robru: sure if jenkins will finish in one hour
[22:26] <asac> :)
[22:26] <asac> i dont think so
[22:26] <robru> asac, that I'm not sure, but "usually" those merges go in in under an hour
[22:26] <asac> ogra: we can just test locally and side upload
[22:26] <ogra> asac, lets call it a day ... i trust robru to take care for it :)
[22:27] <asac> robru: you still need to copy it over after
[22:27] <robru> ogra, ok, thanks. I will have a look at it much later tonight.
[22:27] <asac> otherwise its stuck :)
[22:27] <asac> thanks
[22:27] <asac> if not we punch it tomorrow mornig
[22:27] <asac> with mirv
[22:27] <ogra> robru, right please release it too ...
[22:27] <asac> robru: can you drop us a line what happened?
[22:27] <robru> asac, I don't have upload rights, but i can publish the whole stack if you want?
[22:27] <asac> thanks!
[22:27] <ogra> once it is through
[22:27] <asac> otherwise we will be fishing fun
[22:27] <asac> robru: hmm. no ... just try to get it going. we do that tomorrow morning
[22:28] <robru> ok
[22:28] <asac> not sure whateles would come in
[22:28] <asac> ogra: he cant publish just that :/
[22:28] <ogra> right, someone cn release it tomorrow
[22:28] <ogra> asac, well, sil could apparently
[22:28] <asac> robru: just drop Mirv, me and ogra a line
[22:28] <asac> what happened
[22:28] <asac> thanks
[22:28] <ogra> yeah
[22:28] <asac> e.g. if its build and ready for pushing
[22:28] <asac> ogra: mirv gets up in 4 hours
[22:28] <asac> :)
[22:28] <ogra> heh, early bird
[22:29] <robru> asac, ok, no problem
[22:31] <lool> so we leave it there?
[22:31] <asac> ogra: are we happy to take jdstrand's apparmor changes as well?
[22:32] <asac> lool: ?
[22:32] <lool> I mean, in terms of uploads for tonight etc.?
[22:32] <ogra> lool, yeah
[22:32] <asac> jdstrand: so
[22:32] <asac> jdstrand: will your changes guaranteed not change any autopilot tests?
[22:32] <asac> jdstrand: have ou run them all?
[22:32] <ogra> lool, i still have that french accent in my ear "i wont last long tonight" :P
[22:33] <asac> jdstrand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing there are instructions
[22:33] <asac> jdstrand: if you run unity8 and a couple of apps and all is good, just push
[22:34] <jdstrand> asac: my code doesn't affect the image. only click apps. I have run the preinstalled click apps with it, yes
[22:34] <jdstrand> s/the image/the rest of the image/
[22:34] <asac> jdstrand: so that code isnt going on the image at all?
[22:34] <asac> jdstrand: hmm..... how certain is that?
[22:34] <ogra> lool, (not that i'm any better)
[22:34] <jdstrand> sorry, I said code
[22:34] <jdstrand> they are data file
[22:34] <jdstrand> files
[22:35] <jdstrand> used by click-apparmor when apps are installed via click
[22:35] <lool> asac: I think phablet-tools can be marked DONE, yes?
[22:35] <ogra> jdstrand, the point is they could change app behavior
[22:35] <ogra> lool, ++
[22:35] <asac> jdstrand: so you are 100% sure that our autopilots will not suddenly stop starting apps?
[22:35] <asac> jdstrand: if so, just go ahead
[22:35] <lool> ogra: problem is the 7am alarm clock
[22:35] <asac> unless ogra vetos :)
[22:35] <asac> jdstrand: if its 99% run an app autopilot :)
[22:35] <ogra> lool, ugh ...
[22:35] <asac> to try
[22:36] <asac> lool: i think phablet-tools is another update
[22:36] <asac> leave it
[22:36] <asac> we can look at it tomorrow
[22:36] <asac> thanks!
[22:36] <ogra> asac, its in already
[22:36] <asac> ok cool
[22:36] <jdstrand> asac: it shouldn't, but I'll run an app autopilot regardless
[22:36] <asac> jdstrand: you rock :)
[22:36] <asac> jdstrand: i add you to the landing plan for now and you just shoot it and update your row status (on the plan sheet)
[22:37] <lool> ogra: mind chekcing remaining INARCHIVE ones?
[22:37] <lool> the unity8 one is still INARCHIVE, I expect the other ones INIMAGE, but haven't verified all
[22:37] <lool> only the ones I knew how to check
[22:38] <jdstrand> ok
[22:38] <jdstrand> asac: thanks :)
[22:38] <asac> jdstrand: just update your thing to INARCHIVE in row 40 on landing plan sheet
[22:38] <asac> once its beyond proposed
[22:38] <jdstrand> ok
[22:38] <ogra> wow http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20130919.changes
[22:38] <ogra> i hadnt looked yet
[22:39] <asac> seems a bunch of uploads happened directly
[22:39] <asac> like greedy glib2.0 injections
[22:39] <asac> libgles2-mesa:armhf from 9.2-1ubuntu1 to 9.2-1ubuntu2
[22:39] <asac> libglapi-mesa:armhf from 9.2-1ubuntu1 to 9.2-1ubuntu2
[22:40] <asac> did we push that from our ppa? /me hopes not :)
[22:40] <lool> ok, going to bed; bye all
[22:40] <asac> bye
[22:40] <ogra> bye
[22:41] <ogra> asac, not unless it landed in the core-apps PPA
[22:41] <asac> gdebi-core from 0.9.1 to 0.9.1ubuntu1
[22:41] <asac> why do we carry those things?
[22:41] <asac> ogra: yeah. guess we can only hope about those :)
[22:42] <ogra> thats the last remaining PPA
[22:44] <asac> ogra: so you want to pack your things as well now?
[22:44] <asac> or are we waiting for something?
[22:44] <ogra> no, i'll actually crash in front of the TV now
[22:45] <asac> ogra: TV? :)
[22:45] <asac> ogra: i ordered a new one btw :)
[22:45] <ogra> heh
[22:45] <asac> just today lol
[22:45] <ogra> well, i'm in front of the TV ... i just didnt see a lot this evening :)
[22:45] <asac> hehe
[22:47] <asac> ogra: GN
[22:47]  * ogra waves
[22:48] <asac> ogra: robru: ok off as well
[22:48] <asac> robru: good luck ... and also with your date :)
[22:48] <robru> g'night
[22:48] <asac> bye
[22:48] <robru> haha, thanks
[22:50] <asac> plars: mako failed to install :)
[22:50] <asac> on 57
[22:50] <asac> just in case there is anything that can be tried
[22:50] <asac> ok final bye :)
[22:51] <plars> asac: I know, I kicked it back off and it's already passed now
[22:51] <plars> asac: result in the dashboard for it in about 10 min, or you can see it on public jenkins
[22:51]  * plars is watching :)
[23:07] <plars> have to run off for a bit, will continue monitoring when I return


[14:22] <D4RKS1D3> Hi, why when I deploy new units take a lot of time? Why juju do not parallelize the actions?
[14:32] <rick_h> D4RKS1D3: it should work async and work in parralel. How are you adding units?
[14:34] <D4RKS1D3> juju add-unit mysql --to name
[14:34] <D4RKS1D3> the vm in maas is in ready state
[14:34] <D4RKS1D3> but take lot of time to change ready to deploying
[14:38] <D4RKS1D3> you know something about this problem?
[14:39] <D4RKS1D3> sometimes is around waiting 30 minutes between these to states rick_h
[14:40] <rick_h> D4RKS1D3: what version of juju? Not seen anything about that recently no.
[14:41] <D4RKS1D3> rick_h, juju-2.0                              1:2.2.2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1~juju1             amd64
[14:42] <rick_h> D4RKS1D3: hmm, might check the Maas logs during the add-unit and if something isn't going there file a bug please.
[14:45] <D4RKS1D3> let me check
[14:45] <D4RKS1D3> thanks rick_h
[15:03] <D4RKS1D3> rick_h, https://pasteboard.co/GGxwDrk.png take a look, this is what is hapenning if I deploy 10 new units
[15:04] <D4RKS1D3> Only to machines start to run the petition, the other 8 still waiting


[07:38] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:30] <terra> Guys, I always install server from minimal iso and I don't use netplan. Ifupdown setup works fine during but...
[08:31] <terra> "systemctl restart networking" doesn't set new settings on /etc/network/interfaces
[08:31] <terra> *buring boot
[08:31] <terra> *during boot..
[08:35] <ducasse> ok, what happens? nothing?
[08:35] <terra> yes
[08:36] <ducasse> any hints in 'journalctl -u networking'?
[08:37] <terra> Stopping/Stopped/Starting/Started Raise network interfaces...
[08:37] <terra> for each attemp
[08:40] <ducasse> so the interface is stopped and restarted?
[08:41] <terra> Does it really matter if new settings not applied?
[08:41] <terra> And I don't know messages indicates interfaces actually got up/down
[08:45] <terra> probably there are other people here using ifupdown instead new uber super tech "netplan" gızmo
[08:53] <terra> Maybe netplan will be deprecated again... when get used to use it. Hope playing with core components doesn't occur so often.
[08:57] <ducasse> i'm using ifupdown myself, haven't seen this issue
[09:00] <terra> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9QpPmgyJSY/
[09:01]  * lordievader +1 for ifupdown, netplan.io is one of the first things to go on a new install.
[09:47] <cpaelzer> jamespage: coreycb: I'm not seeing the qemu/libvirt from Disco in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cloud-archive/+archive/ubuntu/stein-staging/+index?batch=300
[09:47] <cpaelzer> since we agreed that stein will have those I wanted to double check if that is going well?
[09:47] <jamespage> cpaelzer: next on my list to backport
[09:47] <jamespage> not started on it yet
[09:47] <cpaelzer> thank you jamespage
[10:22] <JulietDeltaGolf> Greetings ! Does anybody know what kind of performance are to be expected with a MD RAID6 ?
[10:22] <JulietDeltaGolf> I'm running ubuntu 18.04.1 with kernel 4.18.0-14-generic and have a 12 drives RAID6.
[10:22] <JulietDeltaGolf> I expected a single dd write to the MD devices from /dev/zero would give me something close to 2 GiB/s but I get 96 MiB/s.
[10:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> What am I missing ?
[11:45] <kstenerud> Is there such a thing as an apt proxy that caches downloads, and can be addressed by other machines on the LAN?
[11:45] <kstenerud> such that you set up a deb entry for the caching machine
[11:51] <ahasenack> kstenerud: apt-cacher{,-ng} is smart like that, iirc it uses avahi-daemon to let others know it exists
[11:52] <ahasenack> you can also install squid-deb-proxy, and squid-deb-proxy-client on the client machines
[12:17] <kstenerud> ahasenack: So does that mean that if I have a proxy on the lan, any system will pick it up automatically via avahi-daemon?
[12:19] <ahasenack> kstenerud: that's the theory, but I'm not using it, I set up an actual squid proxy, and point my machines at it
[12:21] <tomreyn> JulietDeltaGolf: maybe the raid is stil being bult by the time you're testing?
[12:22] <JulietDeltaGolf> tomreyn > not I waited patiently
[12:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> for it to finish
[12:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> but I've just found out 4 drives were doing a background check
[12:23] <tomreyn> JulietDeltaGolf: so you had checked /proc/mdstat
[12:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> that helped a bit
[12:23] <tomreyn> oh ok
[12:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> then I did a dd with an absurdly large blocksize
[12:23] <JulietDeltaGolf> and now I get ~600 MiB/s
[12:24] <JulietDeltaGolf> and the raid process is using around 93% of the cpu
[12:24] <tomreyn> are you using oflag=direct ?
[12:25] <tomreyn> 93% of CPU?! that sounds wrong
[12:25] <JulietDeltaGolf> sooooooooooo I guess o_direct is not only bypassing the VFS cache
[12:25] <JulietDeltaGolf> but the MD and the disk cache as well ...
[12:25] <JulietDeltaGolf> and I didn't expect that... that should be O_SYNC flag's job
[12:27] <JulietDeltaGolf> tomreyn > yeah ...
[12:30] <JulietDeltaGolf> sorry I meant 93% of a core :)
[12:32] <JulietDeltaGolf> hum ... so it would mean the RAID6 implementation is single threaded and I will never go above that ever.
[12:34] <RoyK> JulietDeltaGolf: what sort of drives are these?
[12:35] <RoyK> JulietDeltaGolf: keep in mind that dd is a very poor performance test tool - try fio
[12:35] <RoyK> fio is built to benchmark disks - dd is made to move data
[12:36] <JulietDeltaGolf> RoyK > old spinning rust :)
[12:38] <JulietDeltaGolf> setting 1 in group_thread_cnt
[12:38] <JulietDeltaGolf> seems to help
[12:39] <RoyK> JulietDeltaGolf: as for that of singlethreadedness - I really don't know. How large are these drives? what's their rpm? what's the expected workload?
[12:39] <RoyK> JulietDeltaGolf: for raid-specific questions, there's also #linux-raid
[12:41] <JulietDeltaGolf> RoyK > 8TB 7200k NL SAS
[15:02] <tomreyn> with 18.04, we have both rsyslogd and systemd-journald. isn't this redundant - would not make sense to have only one or the other?
[15:06] <blackflow> tomreyn: well, you can't get rid of journal. and removing rsyslog would probably break legacy stuff that relies on those logfiles being available.
[15:07] <blackflow> and there'd be additional pitchfork mobs if rsyslog was removed. so it's a good default for now.,
[15:08] <blackflow> personally I prefer to use journal as a short (100M) in memory (volatile only) buffer, and forward everything to a syslog for persistent logging.
[15:11] <tomreyn> blackflow: yes, that's probably true, and the redundancy doesn't really hurt. maybe the addition of systemd-journal should be mentioned in the release notes, possibly accompanied by a hint that users may want to replace rsyslogd if they don't need it.
[15:11] <sdeziel> I've also heard that systemd-journald makes a poor network log aggregator (doesn't scale well)
[15:12] <tomreyn> i see, that's good to know.
[15:13] <blackflow> tomreyn: journald is core component of systemd, it was here since 15.04
[15:15] <tomreyn> oh, it's been in 16.04, too? i wasn't aware!
[15:15] <blackflow> yup.
[15:16] <teward> rbasak: i may have to add a third party plugin go nginx-full and -extras - there's a headache with GeoIP legacy being discontinued and not available freely anymore; there's a GeoIP2 third party module that was requested in Debian, and I asked sarnold to do a cursory review, and he said for -full and -extras it'd be acceptable (it's Universe so..).  Just wanted to give the FYI.  It adds to the delta, but I'd rather have a 'freely usable' GeoIP
[15:16] <teward> module in the NGINX config than one which you have to pay MaxMind for to utilize.
[15:16] <teward> thoughts?
[15:16] <teward> (all server team members are permitted to give comments0
[15:30] <rbasak> teward: OK, thanks. And good job on checking with the security team and letting them know :)
[15:31] <teward> rbasak: always :P
[15:31] <teward> sarnold gets pokes from me about that stuff regularly :P
[15:32] <teward> rbasak: sarnold's usually the first one I ask for cursory code reviews for any major evils
[15:32] <teward> in this case there wasn't any major problems identified, but it's also in Universe so we're not needing a heavy in-depth analysis at this point, just the ultra major headaches/concerns (since it's not in Main)
[15:33] <teward> rbasak: though in the future we may need to talk on a MIR to include that module, since GeoIP's... well, now a 'paid product' for the geoip date from MaxMind.
[20:33] <teward> cyphermox: noticed something odd on an 18.04 machine - netplan's 51-local-config.yaml (made in house) and 99-vmware-cfg.yaml (provided by VMware Template), netplan only processes 51 and not 99, is this normal?
[20:33] <teward> (similar behavior when 50-cloud-init.yaml is present too)
[20:42] <super_koza> Hi! I need to pick someones brain... :)
[20:42] <super_koza> I want to copy data from an external drive back to the Ubuntu Server 18.04 and I use rsync for that.
[20:43] <super_koza> However, it is painfully slow.
[20:43] <super_koza> When I was copying data from the server to the drive, it was rather fast (USB3)...
[20:43] <super_koza> What could be the cause for this, or what should I look at...
[20:44] <sarnold> just how slow is it going?
[20:45] <super_koza> I started rsync maybe a minute ago and it still says sending `incremental file list`
[20:45] <super_koza> But when I earlier tried to copy files, it was up to 2MB/s
[20:46] <super_koza> Given that I have almost 1TB of data, this is crazy...
[20:46] <amcclure> hello
[20:46] <benharri> o/ amcclure
[20:46] <amcclure> hi Ben
[20:46] <super_koza> The drive is partitioned as ext4
[20:47] <benharri> small world, hey?
[20:47] <amcclure> yep lol
[20:48] <benharri> super_koza: you might want to try something like https://github.com/jbd/msrsync
[20:48] <super_koza> Ok, when I try copying big files, the speeds reach up to 150MB/s
[20:50] <sarnold> that's not a big surprise
[20:50] <sarnold> getting information about small files can take forever, lots of syncs, lots of syscalls, etc
[20:51] <sarnold> but copying huge files can issue huge read() calls, usually it's sequential copies..
[20:52] <super_koza> For example: 2.03G 100%    8.38MB/s    0:03:51
[20:52] <amcclure> I don't really know why since I didn't have this issue with older Ubuntu Server versions or other distros, but when I type "sudo [command]" there's always a long delay before it asks to enter my password. After that however there aren't any delays unless I try running a command with sudo again.
[20:52] <sdeziel> readahead also possibly help with bigger files
[20:53] <amcclure> is there anything I could do to fix this issue?
[20:53] <sarnold> amcclure: is that delay about six, twelve, or eighteen seconds?
[20:53] <super_koza> It was showing ~150MB/s, but as it took long, the avg is only ~8MB/s
[20:54] <amcclure> super_koza: yes
[20:54] <amcclure> wrong tab sorry
[20:54] <amcclure> sarnold: yes
[20:54] <sdeziel> smells like DNS lookups
[20:55] <sarnold> amcclure: smells like busted dns lookups, as sdeziel mentions
[20:55] <amcclure> dns lookups?
[20:55] <sarnold> you may be able to configure the PAM module doing the lookups to not do them, or install records in your DNS server or /etc/hosts to give speedy answers..
[20:56] <sarnold> or maybe it's sudo doing the lookups..
[20:56] <sdeziel> sarnold: I'm curious to know where you took those 6, 12, and 18 s? resolv.conf mentions the default timeout to be 5s and retry 2
[20:57] <super_koza> is there anything else that I could use?
[20:57] <sarnold> sdeziel: hmm, I thought it'd be six seconds forever, and the 12 and 18 in case the second and third listed resolvers give trouble..
[20:57] <amcclure> it was a hosts issue
[20:58] <amcclure> didn't think sudo and hosts were connected at all
[20:58] <sarnold> sudo's config file lets you specify specific permissions on specific hosts
[20:58] <sdeziel> super_koza: for this transfer I don't know but if you need to do this frequently, there are possibly better ways than rsync
[20:58] <sarnold> then you can distribute one config file to every server in your organization
[20:59] <super_koza> sdeziel: no, I won't do this frequently, but please do tell me what would be a better option in that case
[21:02] <sdeziel> super_koza: you could use "modern" filesystems (like btrfs or zfs) to send snapshots arounds instead of copying individual files
[21:03] <sarnold> and depending upon how much changed vs how much stayed the same, it might be faster to skip rsync and just cp -R instead
[21:03] <sarnold> computing diffs between source and dest can require reading them both in.. but cp -R will have fewer reads of the destination drive..
[21:04] <sdeziel> sarnold: I think that rsync defaults to using --whole-file when the src/dest are both local
[21:05] <sdeziel> but maybe cp -R can still beat it, I never compared both to be honest
[21:06] <sarnold> sdeziel: ooh, nice
[21:19] <super_koza> msrsync doesn't seem to do much
[21:19] <super_koza> the terminal stays blank even though I have specified -P flag
[21:22] <super_koza> When I try copying the files with rsync to my laptop over USB2 port, speeds of 30MB/s are reached for larger files
[21:22] <super_koza> Whis seems decent I would say.
[21:22] <super_koza> Why the hell is my server so slow then?
[21:23] <super_koza> How can I check USB speeds?
[21:26] <lordcirth__> amcclure, does your hostname for <IP_ADDRESS> in /etc/hosts match your hostname in /etc/hostname ?
[21:26] <lordcirth__> Oh, nvrm, you found that
[21:29] <sdeziel> super_koza: maybe your server is doing other things taking away IO bandwidth?
[21:29] <super_koza> Nope, it is doing nothing
[21:31] <lordcirth__> super_koza, in future, using tar might make this a lot faster
[21:32] <lordcirth__> btrfs/zfs snapshots are great, but if the problem is random IO being really slow, tar will turn it into a single sequential IO
[21:34] <super_koza> I have done a very very stupid thing
[21:35] <lordcirth__> oh?
[21:35] <super_koza> I have changed permission on my home with -R 777 :D
[21:35] <super_koza> I have no idea why I did this...
[21:35] <lordcirth__> Well, that's not nearly as bad as doing it to /
[21:36] <super_koza> How can I recover from it?
[21:36] <sdeziel> your subconscious wanted to test your backup procedure ;)
[21:36] <super_koza> I can't ssh anymore
[21:37] <sarnold> are there other untrusted users on the system?
[21:38] <lordcirth__> super_koza, you need to remove permissions from ~/.ssh. chmod -R o-rwx ~/.ssh
[21:38] <lordcirth__> -> recursively remove 'rwx' from 'others'
[21:38] <benharri> .ssh should just be 700
[21:38] <super_koza> ok
[21:38] <super_koza> let me try it
[21:40] <super_koza> so I should do chmod -R 770 /home/myuser?
[21:41] <sarnold> then once you're done with that, figure out how to remove that execute bit from files that shouldn't have it
[21:43] <super_koza> damn
[21:43] <super_koza> :D
[21:44] <sarnold> I thinkt he last time I needed to clean up after someone's chmod 777, I used find . -type f -exec .. and find .  -type d -exec ..
[21:46] <super_koza> what does that do?
[21:51] <sdeziel> super_koza: "-type f" will only run the -exec stuff on files, "-type d" will deal with dirs only
[21:55] <super_koza> Now I have mounted the drive into /mount
[21:55] <super_koza> and now I get decent speeds
[21:55] <super_koza> Not sure how that makes any difference, but hey, whatever works...
[23:10] <jilocasin> evening all
[23:11] <jilocasin> anyone have any idea why *the* default installer for 18.04.1 LTS Server is a subiquity based cloud one?
[23:15] <rbasak> I don't think that question can be answered in a way that would satisfy you. Defaults get decided by the project according to our governance structure.
[23:16] <jilocasin> rbasak: wondering because; there is no warning, it *requires* a network connection to install or start, and it litters the install with cloud based programs and configuration files.
[23:18] <rbasak> See bug 1750819.
[23:19] <jilocasin> rbasak: yea I found that entry *after* I ran head first into that bug.
[23:20] <rbasak> As for "litters", you'll need to explain why that's actually a problem. It's common to end up with things that people don't specifically need in order to provide a more comfortable experience and to help reduce the bug count (fewer possible combinations generally means fewer bugs).
[23:22] <rbasak> For example, you also end up with a ton of hardware drivers you don't need.
[23:22] <rbasak> The advantage is that everyone* is using the same kernel, which makes bugs shallower.
[23:43] <jilocasin> back everyone...
[23:51] <jilocasin> bye now.


 Spent a LOT of time trying to make the install process smooth
[12:45] <tony-smlr> SMLR is live now!  Live E099 Video http://youtu.be/p5umOYU3eK8 - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
[12:46] <tony-smlr> SMLR is also on #smlr
[12:48] <cmaloney> brousch_: I got the referral for Ting. Thank you.
[20:26] <jcastro> cmaloney: craig
[20:26] <jcastro> craig
[20:26] <jcastro> craig
[20:26] <jcastro> around?
[20:29] <rick_h> jcastro: here's here
[20:29] <rick_h> at the sprint, where you should be :P
[20:29] <cmaloney> Hey man
[20:29] <cmaloney> what's up?
[20:30] <jcastro> hey
[20:30] <cmaloney> jcastro: ^
[20:30] <jcastro> you think we should do a subforum on discourse for MI?
[20:30] <jcastro> Also I just had an awesome idea
[20:30] <cmaloney> I'm up for it
[20:30] <cmaloney> What do we need to do?
[20:30] <jcastro> I can sort it all out he subforum part)
[20:30] <cmaloney> cool
[20:30] <jcastro> but I also have a seperate idea
[20:31] <jcastro> let's have an end-of-summer BBQ at a park or something
[20:31] <cmaloney> So today? :)
[20:31] <cmaloney> But yeah, that would be awesome
[20:32] <jcastro> yea
[20:32] <jcastro> end of summer officially
[20:32] <cmaloney> Do you have access to the calendar?
[20:32] <jcastro> but really, we have like a month
[20:32] <jcastro> or even if we don't do end of summer
[20:32] <jcastro> do Fall Hangout
[20:32] <jcastro> or like "Fall Hayride" or something
[20:33] <jcastro> k, so I'm bailing for the weekend soon to go to Niagra, but I can propose something to the list
[20:33] <jcastro> and from looking at the map
[20:33] <rick_h> http://goo.gl/JaDQid
[20:33] <jcastro> it has to be Royal Oakish
[20:33] <jcastro> something close to 75
[20:33] <cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/519/detail/
[20:34] <jcastro> rick_h: well played sir
[20:34] <jcastro> cmaloney: are you going to OLF?
[20:34] <jcastro> rick_h: same question
[20:34] <rick_h> jcastro: no, not going :(
[20:34] <jcastro> rick_h: man so I discovered Fn-Space on my X230
[20:34] <cmaloney> I'm not going to be able to make it
[20:34] <jcastro> this backlit keyboard
[20:36] <jcastro> hey rick_h
[20:36] <jcastro> non linux question for you
[20:36] <jcastro> do you guys do winter tires on your vehicles?
[20:36] <cmaloney> I don't
[20:36] <cmaloney> but my dad does
[20:38] <jcastro> do he does the whole, change tires twice a year thing?
[20:38] <jcastro> jill's doing a decent commute now and I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle
[20:38] <jcastro> but rkather said he started doing it for his wife's SUV and it's like epic.
[20:39] <rick_h> jcastro: not yet. i will on the touareg in a bit and I've got decent tires non-snow on the subaru
[20:39] <jcastro> the tourage has the oem tires
[20:39] <jcastro> hankooks i think?
[20:39] <rick_h> yea, it's worth the hassle. I plan on using belle tire, they'll store and such for you now. They pack them into bags, take them to a warehouse, and then bring them back when you want them swapped
[20:39] <rick_h> jcastro: yea, they're crap tires from the factory
[20:40] <rick_h> jcastro: I bought it end of Feb and hated them beyond belief
[20:40] <jcastro> hmmm, they seemed ok to me
[20:40] <jcastro> <--- knows jack about tires
[20:40] <rick_h> no, not compared to the ones I put on the subaru.  I don't want to keep them in the garage
[20:41] <jcastro> and then in march another set of summers
[20:42] <jcastro> do you plan to keep seperate wheels for each set? or just have them redo the tires everytime on your existing rims?
[20:42] <rick_h> I have to do wheels to since they don't make winter tires in 19" for me
[20:42] <jcastro> oh
[20:42] <rick_h> so I'll have 17" with winter tires + 19" with summer
[20:42] <jcastro> so you go smaller or so
[20:42]  * jcastro nods
[20:42] <rick_h> right
[20:42] <jcastro> "Belle Tire will transport your tires and wheels to our Distribution Center in cutting edge Tire Gloves – specially designed bags that protect your tires and wheels during storage."