[02:55] <ScottK> xnox: What's your plan for quantlib?  Your upload's been sitting in saucy-proposed FTBFS for almost a month.
[03:20] <infinity> ScottK: I'm guessing that'll need some TLC to sort out why the testsuite is hanging. :/
[03:22] <infinity> ScottK: It's possible that reverting to gcc-4.7 might make it happy for now, at least, though that won't make doko happy.
[03:22]  * infinity tries that locall.
[03:22] <infinity> y
[03:38] <pitti> Good morning
[05:26] <didrocks> xnox: hey, I would prefer a step by step for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#I.27m_exposing_a_new_C.2B-.2B-_symbols_in_my_library.2C_it_seems_that_some_packaging_changes_are_needed.2BICY- as upstream doesn't really know what a symbol files is, so better to put all commands to guide them (and replace the version with 0replaceme for new symbols, how they can see them and so on)
[06:30] <tjaalton> pitti: if your arrandale laptop is on saucy there's a new mesa update available which hopefully fixes the slow blur properly :)
[06:30] <tjaalton> dash blur
[06:31] <pitti> tjaalton: oh, nice! I got some new Xorg-ish packages this morning, but haven't rebooted yet
[06:33] <tjaalton> yeah new -intel minor bump too
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:14] <tjaalton> pitti: looks like blur is slow on sandybridge again with the new mesa
[07:14] <tjaalton> so it's not actually fixed in the stable tree
[08:15] <ev> wgrant, StevenK: looks like we're nearly there with ddebs in the librarian (if LP bugs is any guide). Thanks for the hard work!
[08:33] <wgrant> ev: Yeah, just the one known issue left
[08:33] <ev> bug 1179329?
[08:34] <ev> and woohoo
[08:39] <ev> Does anyone know of a hackish way around "The build target must not do anything that might require root privilege." in 4.9 of Debian policy? As part of a package of test crash reports, I'm attempting to install a package that purposefully crashes in its postinst.
[08:45] <cjwatson> ev: manually run stuff in fakeroot?
[08:45] <cjwatson> ev: (note, you don't get real root in the binary target either)
[08:47] <ev> cjwatson: you mean with a chroot? dpkg isn't going to be happy that it cannot write to a number of places.
[08:48] <ev> even after I -o away the ones I can.
[08:48] <cjwatson> LD_PRELOAD
[08:48] <cjwatson> I mean, you can't do any better, if you want to do this in a package build
[08:48] <cjwatson> Leaving aside policy 4.9, you *don't have root* at any point in the build that you control ...
[08:48]  * ev nods
[08:49] <cjwatson> I know that it's possible to LD_PRELOAD dpkg sufficiently, because I did it in lp:click-package :-)
[08:49] <ev> all these years complaining about dpkg running maintainer scripts as root, I guess I deserve this ;)
[08:49] <cjwatson> You can borrow from that if it helps
[08:49] <ev> cjwatson: oooh, will do; thanks!
[08:50] <cjwatson> (There's some extra kind of mini-sandboxing stuff you don't need)
[08:51] <infinity> ev: fakechroot might be enough for what you want.
[08:51] <infinity> But installing a package during a package build just seems wonky on a few levels. :P
[08:55] <cjwatson> fakeroot fakechroot gets you most of the way there, yes.  I think it was (a) slightly inadequate for me in some way I forget and (b) slow to stack up all the external helpers, so I just rolled my own
[08:56]  * StevenK twitches at the memories of attempt to hack moblin-image-creator to work under fakeroot and fakechroot
[08:57] <cjwatson> infinity: Test suite, I expect
[08:58] <cjwatson> ev: Mind you, if you care about having the maintainer scripts actually run, you'd be better off using fakeroot and fakechroot than my stuff.  I had the luxury of being able to just turn off chroot and execvp.
[08:58] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I assumed it was a testsuite, it still feels hackishly evil to require "root" in a testsuite. ;)
[08:59] <infinity> (Unless it's real root, which is entirely valid for some kernel testsuites and such)
[08:59] <infinity> Can't dep-8 specify wanting root for tests?
[09:00] <cjwatson> Yes.
[09:00] <infinity> ev: Might it not be better to just do a dep-8 test with real root, instead of trying to do this at build time?
[09:00] <cjwatson> I'd personally prefer doing things without requiring that, but each to their own.
[09:00] <infinity> ev: If it's going to blow up the dpkg DB, "Restrictions: needs-root breaks-testbed" looks appropriate.
[09:01] <pitti> however, ev's test-crashes package just lives in a PPA AFAIK, it's not actually in Ubuntu
[09:01] <pitti> we can run DEP-8 tests from selected PPAs, though, so it might still be an option
[09:02] <infinity> cjwatson: I'm of two minds.  I'm all for not requiring root to test things, but there's also the reality that when you abstract and synthesize a little too much, you lose all the fun corner cases of the original test conditions.
[09:02] <infinity> (And synthesizing root definitely can fall under that umbrella, since you end up faking a bunch of calls that you might otherwise have broken something with)
[09:14] <NikTh> Hello. Can someone tell me why the "~" character is not allowed in package name ? Read here another build failure of mine. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/140581585/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-amd64.linux_3.8.0-999~bfsbfq1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:14] <xnox> didrocks: the c++ specific symbols go right after the "how to add c symbols", I'm not sure it makes sense to copy & paste and repeat the same information twice. Hence the c++ answer starts with "similar to above,..."
[09:15] <didrocks> xnox: from my knowledge, upstream doesn't really go through and won't look at it. They are looking for step by step instructions
[09:15] <didrocks> it's already hard to have them reading the documentation (again illustrated yesterday :p)
[09:15] <didrocks> so let's make this as simple as possible for them
[09:17] <cjwatson> NikTh: Er, it just isn't
[09:17] <cjwatson> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Source has the rules for package names
[09:19] <infinity> NikTh: If you make that 3.8.0-999.1~bfsbfq1, you'll be fine.
[09:19] <infinity> NikTh: Understanding how the kernel package does ABI/build numbering is helpful here.
[09:20] <infinity> NikTh: But might I also point out that you're perhaps doing a disservice to your users by jacking up the version number on -generic unless you intend to rebase for every single security upload as soon as we release...
[09:20] <infinity> NikTh: (A different flavour entirely, so they know what they're getting into might be better, I dunno)
[09:20] <NikTh> infinity: exactly. I thought this too. Because I have already uploaded a package with this.. tilda (I think is the name) character inside and I had no problem. 3.8.0-21.32nikth1~bfsbfq1
[09:21] <infinity> NikTh: 3.8.0-21 is the kernel ABI in that example, .32nikth1~bfsbfq1 is the build ID.
[09:21] <infinity> NikTh: The first part ends up in the binary package names, the latter part is only in the versions.
[09:21] <infinity> NikTh: It splits on the first '.' after the '-'
[09:21] <NikTh> I want to upload a completely different version, so I changed the ABI. I don't want users to upgrade the official ubuntu kernel with mine. I want to install it (if they want) by hand. Manually
[09:22] <infinity> NikTh: Notice how the official kernel packages are versions like: "3.8.0-21.32" and "3.8.0-21" is in the package name, but ".32" isn't.
[09:24] <NikTh> What name you suggest infinity
[09:25] <NikTh> infinity: to achieve my goal. Not upgrade the Ubuntu official kernel when users add my PPA, but install a new kernel instead
[09:25] <cjwatson> Haven't people suggested several times that for kernel-specific questions you should use #ubuntu-kernel, BTW?
[09:26] <cjwatson> (Because this line of questions is absolutely an artifact of things that are specific to the kernel packaging)
[09:26] <NikTh> cjwatson: I thought this was a debian package system error.  But I will ask there too. Thanks
[09:26] <cjwatson> It is not, it's kernel-specific.
[09:27] <cjwatson> As has been pretty much everything you've asked about over the last few days :)
[09:27] <cjwatson> The kernel has very complex packaging that needs to be tickled just right
[09:28] <mlankhorst> first sign of kernel developer, perceiving inanimate kernels as alive?
[09:29] <pitti> Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like that!
[09:29] <StevenK> pitti: Haha
[09:49] <xnox> didrocks: collapsed both c & c++ answers into a single symbols question on the wiki, with caveats and links to further reading.
[09:49] <didrocks> xnox: ok, will give a look later, thanks!
[10:15] <mpt> ev, any idea why Ubuntu 12.10's error rate has plummeted since the last week of April?
[10:16] <davmor2> mpt: every moved to 13.04 it's better
[10:16] <davmor2> mpt: everyone even
[10:17] <mpt> ooh, that might actually be it
[10:17] <mpt> People upgrading and the error tracker hasn't yet realized they aren't using 12.10 any more
[10:17] <ev> mpt: I'm not sure. It's surprising, given that awful "oh you want to upgrade? Sorry pal, not happening" bug.
[10:17] <mpt> ev, how does the ID work on upgrades? Does it stay the same?
[10:18] <ev> mpt: by ID do you mean at what point does the release change for new crash reports on the system during an upgrade?
[10:18] <mpt> That might also explain the (lesser) dip in 12.04's error rate when 12.10 came out
[10:19] <mpt> ev, no, at what point (if any) does the machine ID change.
[10:19] <ev> it never changes
[10:19] <ev> purposefully
[10:19] <ev> it's based off a value in the DMI tables
[10:19] <ev> the system uuid, sha512 hashed
[10:20] <mpt> ev, good, so, as soon as we get a report from a machine release N+1 do we remove it from the count of machines known to be running release N?
[10:21] <ev> mpt: in the calculation for the number of unique machines seen in a 90 day window?
[10:21] <mpt> ev, yes.
[10:21] <ev> mpt: no - I suppose we could take the set difference, working backwards
[10:22] <ev> so figure out the unique machines seen in Saucy in the past 90 days, hold those in memory, then figure out the machines seen in Raring in the past 90 days, removing any that are present in the Saucy list
[10:23] <mpt> something like that
[10:23] <ev> I'm just wondering if the 90 days part breaks that
[10:23] <ev> hmm
[10:25] <ev> no, I think we're okay. It's simply preventing double counting a machine against two releases.
[10:25] <ev> filing a bug
[10:25] <mpt> I'm already doing it :-)
[10:25] <ev> ah excellent
[10:26] <ev> I do wonder what the effect will be for issues like the upgrader bug
[10:26] <ev> we'd be counting those machines for Raring, even though the issue happened in Quantal
[10:26] <ev> because they were seen on that day as using Quantal, assuming they found a way around the upgrade problem
[10:28] <mpt> bug 1183759
[10:31] <mpt> If that's the cause of the 12.10 slump (and the bug isn't fixed first), the 12.10 error rate will return to ~0.05 towards the end of July.
[10:51] <cjwatson> RAOF: Could you merge libxfixes?  I'm touched-it-last, but only for a rebuild; the substantive changes are yours.
[10:56] <xnox> ev: how is release detected? i'm running a mixed saucy/raring install and I did not use upgrade-manager to upgrade.
[10:56]  * xnox 'd like to know if I am counted as raring or as saucy.
[10:57] <ev> xnox: whatever is in lsb-release/os-release, I imagine
[10:57] <xnox> saucy, all good.
[11:34] <cjwatson> I fear I may have temporarily made texlive-base uninstallable in the next publisher cycle.  It shouldn't be a big problem except for people installing saucy or upgrading to saucy in the relevant window (upgrades within saucy won't be affected, as far as I can make out), and it ought to fix itself after the next proposed-migration run and publisher cycle.
[11:34] <cjwatson> Sorry about that.
[12:18] <sil2100> cyphermox: hi! I just checked https://code.launchpad.net/network-manager and noticed that the importer failed importing for git over 5 times
[12:26] <maxb> sil2100: Check the logs:
[12:26] <maxb> 2013-05-22 11:48:25 INFO    Unable to import branch because of limitations in Bazaar.
[12:26] <maxb> 2013-05-22 11:48:25 INFO    The repository you are fetching from contains submodules, which are not yet supported.
[12:39] <pitti> cjwatson: wow, apologizing for 30 minutes of minor installability breakage in a cycle is a really nice testament to how far we've come!
[12:47] <cjwatson> Heh, yeah.  Hopefully it was just that; unfortunately once you break something proposed-migration will basically do whatever it takes to improve things, so it's hard to see what may have broken as a result.  The total uninstallable count appears to have gone up by one per architecture ...
[12:48] <cjwatson> Can't quite work out what though
[12:48] <cjwatson> Processing NBS to see if that helps
[12:52] <ev> drat. I got so far with a few fakeroot fakechroot lines and then hit the wall that is needing /proc in the chroot.
[12:52] <pitti> ev: you can create a /proc -> /proc symlink in the fakechroot
[12:52]  * ev beats his head on the desk
[12:52] <pitti> (at least that worked a few years ago when apport's retracers were still using fakechroot)
[12:52] <ev> thanks pitti
[12:53] <pitti> it looks recursive, but back then it was acting like pointing "outside" the fakechroot into the real fs
[13:31] <hallyn> when installing a new package which has preinst and postinst, as well as an upstart job, will the upstart job be started after preinst and before postinst?  (I should think so, but wanted to make sure)
[13:32] <pitti> that surely depends on the start condition?
[13:32] <pitti> jodh: ^
[13:42] <rbasak> Doesn't the upstart job get started _by_ the postinst, usualy courtesy of debhelper? Or does it work differently with upstart, or have I completely misunderstood the question?
[13:43] <cjwatson> The upstart job is indeed normally started by the postinst
[13:43] <hallyn> rbasak: no, that's the question...  the issue is lxc.preinst is setting up /etc/default so that the lxc-net.conf upstart job can start lxcbr0 - but lxcbr0 is not being started.
[13:43] <hallyn> until you reboot or manually restart lxc-net
[13:43] <cjwatson> It would be incorrect for it to be started before the postinst, in general, because the package is unconfigured then
[13:44] <cjwatson> hallyn: It's your postinst's responsibility to do that.  Is this an upstart-only job though?
[13:44] <cjwatson> Yeah, it is
[13:44] <cjwatson> I think there are some (unfiled?) problems with upstart-only jobs at the moment
[13:45] <cjwatson> 20:36 <infinity> slangasek: Does dh_installinit need a bit more mangling for the upstart-only case now that the upstart-job links disappeared?
[13:45] <hallyn> ah
[13:46] <rbasak> Ah - so nothing is starting the upstart-only job in hallyn's postinst?
[13:46] <hallyn> cjwatson: to be clear - the #DEBHELPER# should insert the necessary code if dh_installinit is being used, right?  I don't then ahve to manually do it in postinst?
[13:46]  * hallyn looks up
[13:46] <cjwatson> Indeed, you shouldn't have to do this manually, it's a debhelper bug
[13:47] <hallyn> is there an open bug for this?
[13:48] <cjwatson> I don't see one
[13:49] <cjwatson> Let me see, maybe it's not too hard
[13:49] <hallyn> ah, found the backlog.  Note everyone uses UTC for their irc log timestamps? :)
[13:49] <hallyn> cjwatson: just wanted to mark bug 1183807 a dup of it if there was one
[13:52] <cjwatson> I've added a debhelper task
[13:52] <cjwatson> lxc will need to be rebuilt after it's fixed though
[13:54] <hallyn> cjwatson: great, thanks
[13:56] <cjwatson> hallyn: Fancy trying http://paste.ubuntu.com/5697031/ ?
[14:01] <hallyn> building
[14:07] <hallyn> d'oh, clerical error.  retrying
[14:09] <hallyn> (had built debhelper, then built lxc... without installing the debhelper pkg :)
[14:10] <hallyn> alas, still no lxcbr0
[14:11] <hallyn> cjwatson: ^ :(
[14:11] <cjwatson> hallyn: Can you put the resulting .deb somewhere for me?
[14:12] <hallyn> cjwatson: but the test in http://paste.ubuntu.com/5697031 is for '-x /etc/init.d/*.conf', but none of those are executable
[14:12] <hallyn> sure, you mean the lxc deb right?
[14:13] <hallyn> cjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~serge/lxc_0.9.0-0ubuntu9_amd64.deb
[14:18] <cjwatson> hallyn: No, the test is -e /etc/init/*.conf ...
[14:18] <cjwatson> (ignore the LHS)
[14:19] <cjwatson> oh, it's not being substituted properly
[14:21] <cjwatson> hallyn: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5697103/
[14:37] <aa10123> wedgwood:
[14:40] <hallyn> cjwatson: success!
[14:40] <hallyn> no wait
[14:41] <hallyn> yup, success
[14:47] <cjwatson> hallyn: OK, thanks - uploaded
[14:48] <bdmurray> doko: dobey mentions that bug 1171568 was fixed by a version of sqlite3 in saucy.  could we get that SRU'ed?
[14:49] <hallyn> cjwatson: so lxc needs a rebuild-only upload?
[14:51] <cjwatson> hallyn: It will do after debhelper has built and published
[14:53] <hallyn> great, thanks
[15:22] <xnox> bdmurray: I disagree, that it fixed anything.
[15:22] <xnox> still FTBFS in sbuild here.
[15:24] <xnox> commented on the bug report.
[15:27] <bdmurray> xnox: kay, thanks
[15:37] <tvoss> slangasek, ping
[15:42] <cjwatson> hallyn: you can safely upload lxc now
[15:42] <cjwatson> roaksoax: ^- you were asking about what turned out to be the debhelper part of bug 1183807 the other day too - fixed now
[15:47] <hallyn> cjwatson: oh, i misunderstood you before then.  ok, will upload
[15:48] <cjwatson> misunderstood how?  (out of interest)
[15:49] <roaksoax> cjwatson: awesome! thanks!
[15:50] <hallyn> cjwatson: "hallyn: It will do after debhelper has built and published" I thought you meant a rebuild will be triggered automatically
[15:50] <hallyn> :)
[15:50] <cjwatson> Oh I see
[15:50] <cjwatson> Sadly we don't have automatic rebuild support
[15:50] <cjwatson> So the best I could have done (but didn't) would have been cron.cjwatson ;-)
[15:53] <hallyn> :)  cool, pushed.
[15:53] <hallyn> still don't see why pull-lp-source is being so flaky for me, on several (but not all) hosts.  I'm just defaulting to dget from the launchpad publishing history
[16:29] <tvoss> slangasek, ping
[17:02] <alexbligh> When building stuff with pbuilder etc., how does it persuade debootstrap to use (e.g.) precise-updates as well as precise. IE how do you know you aren't building using a buggy version of gcc or against a buggy static library?
[17:03] <dobey> alexbligh: i run pbuilder-update before every build. but precise has -updates and -security enabled by default, so the chroot will also have them enabled by default. just run the update regularly
[17:06] <alexbligh> OK - so it relies on pbuilder-update. Thanks. I was hoping there was a way to persuade debootstrap to produce up to date builds out the box. Oh well. I think I need to try multistrap then.
[17:08] <cjwatson> I know pbuilder is hideously inefficient but it doesn't debootstrap every time.
[17:08] <cjwatson> That would be a bit much.
[17:08] <slangasek> tvoss: hi
[17:09] <alexbligh> cjwatson, nah I was seeing whether pbuilder had solved the problem I was looking at. I want to do a debootstrap (or better a cdebootstrap) to build an image using precise AND precise-updates. I was just hoping someone had fixed this for pbuilder.
[17:09] <slangasek> cjwatson, infinity: hmm, evidently I missed that dh_installinit question before... so under Debian policy, there should no longer be any "upstart-only" jobs, but I believe the dh_installinit bits were written to work anyway if you do have one
[17:10] <cjwatson> You definitely shouldn't use cdebootstrap for anything - it's obsolete.
[17:10] <cjwatson> The last useful innovation it introduced was incorporated into debootstrap in 2005.
[17:11] <alexbligh> cjwatson, the innovation I want is looking at more than one repo. But I don't think it does that either.
[17:11] <cjwatson> For debootstrap I'd probably just write a trivial wrapper which makes sources.list look the way you want it and then run an update.
[17:13] <alexbligh> that actually doesn't work well. Firstly, my image which I am trying to keep small ends up with the ghosts of packages removed. Secondly there are packages like linux-image-current-generic which are not actually in precise, but that's (obviously) exactly what you want to install. 2 kernel packages inflates the size of the image quite a lot.
[17:13] <alexbligh> I am trying to get away from running anything in the image (chroot or otherwise).
[19:05] <phillw> Hi, sorry about this, as I am sure I have asked before.. is the usage of xdg-open no longer suggested for 'quick-links' such as those on "Easy Install" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
[19:16] <mterry> @pilot in
[19:38] <genii-around> I want to modify the !wubi factoid but would like to double-check here for facts...   as I understand, wubi is no longer supported from 13.04 onwards, but I still see it for instance at http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/wubi.exe  . So: Is it in fact dropped, or no longer in the iso image? Also, does the wubi.exe for Raring work or is it some carryover from previous versions?
[19:39] <slangasek> genii-around: it was released with 13.04, but has been de-emphasized on the website due to the lack of support for Windows 8 / SecureBoot
[19:41] <genii-around> slangasek: OK, thanks. Will it be in Saucy ?
[19:41] <slangasek> genii-around: I expect it will be; there seem to be developers committed to keeping it in working order
[19:42] <genii-around> OK. Thanks again
[19:42] <phillw> hi slangasek sorry to attempt a kidnap, but is xdg-open no longer used?
[19:43] <slangasek> phillw: can't say I know the answer to that; I've never used it directly
[19:43] <slangasek> phillw: it's certainly still part of the ubuntu-desktop seed, so I don't know of any reason it would be "no longer used"
[19:44] <phillw> slangasek: so, I should report a bug as to it not working?
[19:44] <lifeless> phillw: of course
[19:44] <phillw> I'll try it in FFox and Chomium.
[19:46] <slangasek> phillw: if it's not working, then yes, that's a bug
[19:46] <slangasek> whether the bug is resolved by fixing the tool or removing it, is for the developers to decide
[20:05] <phillw> slangasek: It seems to be a chromium bug, Firefox does not report it. as ubuntu are considering using chromium I will report it against that. As ever, thanks for the input :)
[20:24] <TheLordOfTime> slangasek:  are you able to confirm that 'ubuntu-bug' is correctly checking versions of packages?  also, can you dig around on the saucy archive and confirm that the version of "chromium-browser" in saucy is 25.0.1364.160-0ubuntu3 ?
[20:25] <TheLordOfTime> slangasek:  phillw tried `ubuntu-bug chromium-browser`and it said they were using a third-party package.
[20:25] <cjwatson> Doesn't require any privilege to dig around.  $ rmadison -s saucy chromium-browser
[20:25] <cjwatson> chromium-browser | 25.0.1364.160-0ubuntu3 | saucy/universe | source, amd64, armhf, i386
[20:25] <cjwatson> (I'm not going to look at ubuntu-bug at the moment though, end-of-day)
[20:26] <TheLordOfTime> cjwatson:  no, but it needs access to the internet beyond what I can do via SSH-to-my-system-from-my-phone
[20:26] <TheLordOfTime> okay, that's what i thought, if ubuntu-bug had randomly broken, i'd be appalled and probably be the first to complain :P
[20:27] <shakaran> Hi, I notice that apport detects crashes in 13.10, but after send the report it nevers open the browser in launchpad. How I can trace/fix this wrong behaviour?
[20:27] <TheLordOfTime> i'm not as familiar with bug triage for "Update software to X.Y.Z" bugs, should this be Wishlist / Triaged, or at least "wishlist"?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1183086
[20:30] <TheLordOfTime> actually, regarding that bug there... has anyone tested the version of that in debian unstable on 13.04?
[20:30] <TheLordOfTime> according to packages.qa.debian.org, unstable has 27.0.1453.93-1 in unstable.
[20:30] <TheLordOfTime> s/13.04/13.10/
[20:30]  * TheLordOfTime groans at his fail.
[20:31]  * ScottK looks around for the LART.
[20:40] <stgraber> slangasek: hey, so I ended up being TIL on nfs-utils after sponsoring a small patch last cycle. I have done the merge here but can't easily test it and that's a new upstream version with quite a bunch of changes on the Debian side.
[20:41] <slangasek> stgraber: can you throw it up as a UDD mp for me to look at later?  Probably not until Monday evening - I won't get to it today and I'll be away from home all weekend
[20:41] <stgraber> slangasek: sure
[20:42] <shakaran> If there are some eclipse ubuntu maintainer here, just bumping this https://bugs.launchpad.net/eclipse-ubuntu/+bug/1183998
[21:05] <stgraber> slangasek: Launchpad encountered an internal error during the following operation: generating the diff for a merge proposal.  It was logged with id OOPS-69c17ff685621f498e8fd63388bec9ff.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
[21:06] <stgraber> slangasek: got that from LP after I sent the MP, so looks like you won't have a diff, sorry
[21:11] <slangasek> stgraber: heh, that's fine; I was going to pull it down and review+build+install anyway
[21:25] <stgraber> slangasek: oh, I see the problem, LP assumed I wanted to merge my branch into lp:debian/nfs-utils, will retarget the MP, that may end up fixing the diff as a side effect
[21:31] <mterry> @pilot out
[21:32] <slangasek> stgraber: ok, cool
[21:36] <infinity> Man, I wish compiz would crash more today, it's really exciting...
[21:49] <phillw> infinity: I can try in VM if there are any cases you wish testing
[21:59] <slangasek> infinity: bug #1181717? or another?
[22:00] <infinity> slangasek: That'd be the one.
[22:02] <slangasek> infinity: this looks suspiciously like a gobject/gint casting failure; are you on amd64 too?
[22:03] <infinity> slangasek: I am, yeah.
[22:03] <infinity> Bug #1181324 is driving me nuts too, but only in that "gah, apport, stop yelling at me" way, whereas the compiz one is actually preventing me from working. :P
[22:04] <infinity> Well, the second one's preventing me from watching movies after work which is, arguably, almost as important for my sanity.
[22:05] <slangasek> right
[22:07] <infinity> Also vaguely related, anyone know how to get my indicator panel back after a total unity explosion, or am I going to have to log out?
[22:08]  * infinity sucks it up and starts closing windows to log out.
[22:08] <slangasek> well, in my total explosions, compiz has died and left me with no control via X, so I've switched to vt1 and respawned it; that lets compiz run but doesn't have the right dbus environment for the rest
[22:08] <jcastro> infinity: `setsid unity` ftw
[22:08] <jcastro> always works for me
[22:09] <infinity> slangasek: Ctrl-Alt-T still worked enough for me to re-run unity.
[22:09] <slangasek> hmm
[22:09] <slangasek> so maybe Ctrl-Alt-T is also not giving the right environment?
[22:09] <slangasek> (such bugs have occurred before)
[22:09] <infinity> Possibly.
[22:09] <infinity> I find my lack of panels disturbing, at any rate.
[22:09] <infinity> It's creepy having a blank bar up there with no clock.
[22:10] <slangasek> ah, I haven't had that particular failure
[22:10] <slangasek> when it fails for me, I get no window decorations and no bar at all
[22:10] <infinity> That's what I had initially.
[22:10] <infinity> Then ctrl-alt-t and ran a new unity.
[22:11] <infinity> And now no menus or indicators.
[22:11] <infinity> Entirely possible that I failed to run unity in some sort of "I like having stuff" mode.
[22:11] <slangasek> right, I mean even after restarting compiz, I have window management (because I can click on a terminal), but no decorations
[22:11] <infinity> But also short on patience and will likely just reboot soon. :P
[22:12] <infinity> slangasek: Are you running compiz or unity?  I'd expect a raw compiz to land you about there (management, but no pretty).
[22:12] <slangasek> infinity: ah, I was running it as 'compiz', which DTRT when launched from within the X session
[22:13] <infinity> Anyhoo.  Advanced recovery of broken window managers is so 1998.  I think I'll just hope for a bug fix instead.
[22:14] <slangasek> so for my part, I can't see what package changed on my system recently that would correspond to this
[22:17] <infinity> slangasek: glib?
[22:18] <slangasek> seems unlikely
[22:18] <slangasek> given that nothing else is falling over
[22:18] <infinity> I've had nautilus crashing too.
[22:19] <slangasek> according to https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/10d5e9a86a0f811a645c6fd60ca2dc94bf3c0462, this crash was seen as far back as Apr 27
[22:20] <infinity> slangasek: Hrm.  So could just be "new" to me because I rarely log out and/or reboot.
[22:21] <slangasek> right - it first showed up for me on May 19, my last reboot before that was May 17; so I'm trying to see what I upgraded in between that might be to blame
[22:21] <infinity> I have no idea when it first happened for me. :/
[22:22] <infinity> Does errors have a "look up everything I submitted" thing?
[22:22] <slangasek> I know when it first happened for me, because I filed a bug report immediately ;)
[22:22] <slangasek> infinity: if you know your UUID it might be queriable
[22:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ ?
[22:24] <psusi> cjwatson, in grub2, deviceiter.c seems to be in an ubuntu patch, restore_mkdevicemap.patch, which has no DEP3 header.. could you help me understand what this patch is for, and why deviceiter.c isn't part of upstream grub2?
[22:25] <slangasek> interesting, the first crash report from April 27 has a GNOME prerelease ppa enabled
[22:26] <cjwatson> psusi: Upstream deliberately removed device.map and all its evil works, but I had to glue it back in for a while to keep things like grub-pc.postinst and (IIRC) grub-installer working.  I'd like to remove it but those scripts need to be refactored in terms of ... something else first.
[22:27] <infinity> I'm liking the "I don't reboot often" argument less, given that last(1) shows I rebooted on May 3, 7, and 17.
[22:27] <infinity> And I always fully update before I reboot.
[22:27] <cjwatson> The version of deviceiter.c we're carrying is basically the last one before upstream removed it.
[22:27] <cjwatson> (And it's a Debian patch, not an Ubuntu one.)
[22:28] <psusi> cjwatson, ohh... I know we prefer not to have device.map anymore, but I didn't realize upstream had removed all support for it... I'm specifically looking at the part of it now that identifies dmraid devices.. it needs a fix.. but if upstream doesn't have this file at all, how would it identify dmraid devices?  I thought that this code was used to dynamically identify devices, with or without a device.map
[22:29] <cjwatson> psusi: There are other interfaces in GRUB that deal with finding devices without the particular form of interface in deviceiter.c
[22:29] <cjwatson> Which is "enumerate all devices we recognise that are provided by the OS"
[22:30] <psusi> so this other mechanism needs enhanced to detect dmraid disks for upstream to do so, and so we can drop that patch eh?  where is this other mechanism?
[22:30] <cjwatson> That isn't needed at boot time, and even most OS-side tools in GRUB only need to be able to come up with a stable way to refer to things
[22:31] <sarnold> infinity,slangasek, I believe this should do it: http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/`printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid)|sha512sum`
[22:31] <sarnold> (though it finds nothing for me, which I find hard to believe. :)
[22:31] <cjwatson> Well, there's no other mechanism to enumerate all OS devices recognised by GRUB that I'm aware of
[22:31] <infinity> slangasek: So, the first three I checked all have an updated glib.  Going to keep poking...
[22:31] <cjwatson> We'd have to invent something that's less horrible than device.map was
[22:32] <cjwatson> And maybe refactor on top of things like blkid or other similar facilities, I don't know
[22:32] <cjwatson> It's not something I've given much thought to because that patch hasn't required very much maintenance
[22:32] <infinity> sarnold: Yeah, nothing for me either, so that seems like it's not right. ;)
[22:33] <sarnold> Darn. :)
[22:33] <slangasek> infinity: hmmm; I upgraded libglib on 15 May, so that's not a perfect fit for the timeline here
[22:33] <cjwatson> For the meantime the right answer is just to amend the Debian patch as needed
[22:34] <cjwatson> Happy to take patches to the DM-RAID code there as long as somebody explains why they're correct :-)
[22:36] <infinity> slangasek: But when did you restart compiz?
[22:36] <slangasek> infinity: no later than the 17th when I rebooted
[22:36] <slangasek> which is 2 days before my first bug hit
[22:36] <infinity> slangasek: Kay.  Well, I can't seem to find a single crash that doesn't involve glib 2.37 ... Could be a red herring, but it seems damning.
[22:36] <infinity> slangasek: And the graph takes a steep climb when that got uploaded to the archive.
[22:37] <infinity> slangasek: You could just have been lucky until your first hit?  It's not like it crashes every 20 seconds.
[22:37] <slangasek> infinity: right.  So, downgrade libglib and see?
[22:37] <cjwatson> Ubiquity needed a fix recently for a reference counting bug
[22:37] <cjwatson> Which started crashing in its testsuite, although it was definitely (in my assessment) ubiquity's problem and had basically always been wrong
[22:38] <cjwatson> This is ubiquity 2.15.3
[22:38] <cjwatson> So it's possible glib2.0 had a refleak fix which has exposed bugs in other things too
[22:38] <infinity> This doesn't sound implausible at all.
[22:39] <infinity> Given the name of the symbol with the segv. :P
[22:39] <slangasek> cjwatson: hmm.  The stack trace does look like a 32-bit "pointer" on a 64-bit system, though
[22:39] <cjwatson> Quite
[22:39] <infinity> slangasek: It's crashing on i386 too.
[22:39] <slangasek> ah
[22:39] <cjwatson> slangasek: Could be an artifact of memory having previously been cleaned up, though
[22:40]  * slangasek nods
[22:40] <cjwatson> I don't know, haven't looked at this crash in detail
[22:40] <cjwatson> But IIRC the Ubiquity one looked a bit like that at first glance too
[22:40] <infinity> Do we have a retraced version of this backtrace anywhere?
[22:41] <slangasek> the one on the bug report is retraced
[22:41] <infinity> Ahh, in the bug.
[22:41] <infinity> Yeah.
[22:42] <infinity> Oh, but no symbols for libunityshell.so, that sort of renders that useless.
[22:42] <slangasek> infinity: ?  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/140437248/Stacktrace.txt
[22:43] <infinity> Silly me, I was looking at the thread stack trace...
[22:43] <infinity> Or, no, I was just looking at an earlier one in the log.
[23:05] <psusi> cjwatson, yea... remember how I changed dmraid in 12.04 to use kpartx to activate the partitions since it supported dmraid?  it sets the uuid of the partition to "partN-DMRAID-uuid" and parted-probe is looking for it to start with "DMRAID-" still...
[23:05] <psusi> supported gpt rather
[23:06] <cjwatson> explain> not on IRC at local-midnight :-)
[23:07] <psusi> err, not parted-probe, grub-probe... pfft... how many mistakes can I cram into once line? ;)
[23:07] <cjwatson> Sounds easy enough to fix though
[23:08] <psusi> yea, guess I'll just change it to strstr
[23:08] <psusi> instead of strncmp
[23:08] <cjwatson> In my about-to-sleep state that sounds OK
[23:08] <psusi> just burns me that installs to fakeraids have been broken since 12.04 and I'm just now figuring this out
[23:10] <sarnold> psusi: is that related to this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdadm/+bug/1171945
[23:10] <cjwatson> Glad you looked at that, since I'd probably not have got there
[23:13] <psusi> sarnold, no, this has to do with dmraid/fakeraid, not mdadm
[23:14] <psusi> is there a release manager around that can open the precise task for me on bug #1183915?
[23:15] <cjwatson> psusi: done, and reassigned to grub2
[23:20] <sarnold> psusi: aha, thanks. :)


[00:36] <p7ank5te7> I'm trying to change my hard drive out on my home server, which is just a single disk, and trying to go to a Raid 1, but I'm not understanding how I can do this.
[00:36] <p7ank5te7> Can anyone give me a few pointers?
[00:37] <p7ank5te7> Also to top it off, when the server was built, it appears that only 2 partitions were made, 1 being the root( / ) and 1 being the swap. Does that pose additional problems
[00:39] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: create a new raid-1 with a missing drive on the other drive and copy the data over
[00:39] <RoyK> you can't convert a normal partition to a raid-1
[00:40] <p7ank5te7> See my problem is with the tutorials, they say I'm supposed to have root, boot, and swap partitions but I only have root and swap?
[00:44] <RoyK> then create a small boot partition on the new drive
[00:44] <RoyK> copy /boot there
[00:45] <RoyK> use lvm for the rest
[00:45] <RoyK> if  you're new to linux, ask, it may take some turns to get it fixed right
[00:46] <RoyK> or - just use partitions - one for /boot, one for the root, and one for swap
[00:46] <p7ank5te7> I am still a bit new to it, at least for the partitions and stuff, I have been learning slowly but surely.
[00:46] <RoyK> then just use partitions for now
[00:46] <RoyK> fdisk /dev/whatever
[00:46] <RoyK> create a small boot partition, max 1GB
[00:46] <RoyK> then the swap, then the root
[00:47] <RoyK> swap should be on the start of the disk, since that's fastest
[00:47] <RoyK> but start with the boot partition
[00:48] <RoyK> then mount the lot in /mnt or smoewhere and rsync -avPHAx / /mnt
[00:48] <RoyK> as in, mount the root on /mnt
[00:48] <RoyK> create /mnt/boot
[00:48] <RoyK> mount /boot there as well
[00:49] <RoyK> and then do the rsync
[00:49] <RoyK> then install grub on the new drive
[00:49] <RoyK> try to reboot into it
[00:50] <p7ank5te7> RoyK, I appreciate it, so let me make sure I understand, create the partitions on the "Extra" drive, then rsync the content from the current to the new one, install grub, and try it?
[00:51] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: erm
[00:52] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: I think you'll need to do this slowly
[00:52] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: first, create a partition for boot, swap and root
[00:52] <p7ank5te7> Sorry for being a complete idiot with this.
[00:53] <RoyK> no, I was giving wrong advice
[00:53] <RoyK> create these partitions as raid partitions
[00:54] <RoyK> then create raid devices on them with something like "mdadm --create --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sdXY missing"
[00:54] <RoyK> meaning you create a degraded raid on each of them
[00:54] <RoyK> then create raid devices on them with something like "mdadm --create --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/md0 /dev/sdXY missing"
[00:54] <RoyK> etc
[00:54] <RoyK> md0 md1 etc
[00:54] <RoyK> one for each partition
[00:55] <RoyK> then mount the root on /mnt or somewhere and create /mnt/boot, mount the boot partition there, and do the rsync
[00:56] <RoyK> then install grub on the new system
[00:56] <p7ank5te7> So mount my current setup on mount then mount md0(boot) as /mnt/boot is that right?
[01:00] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: yes
[01:00] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: just make sure you mount the new raid on -mnt first
[01:00] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: /mnt/even
[01:01] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: /mnt even
[01:03] <p7ank5te7> Ok. So I follow now, mount the raid root as "/mnt" then the raid boot as "/mnt/boot"
[01:08] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: mount raid root on /mnt, mkdir /mnt/boot, mount raid boot on /mnt/boot, do the rsync
[01:08] <RoyK> install grub
[01:08] <RoyK> try to reboot into that - should work
[01:12] <p7ank5te7> Let's see if it works
[01:37] <p7ank5te7> RoyK, i'm up to the Rsync part. As far as install grub, when I do that, just purge it and reinstall it and have it set to the secondary drive?
[02:03] <RoyK> p7ank5te7: install-grub /dev/blah
[02:06] <RoyK> typically /dev/md0
[02:11] <p7ank5te7> Will that work with grub 2?
[02:14] <RoyK> yes
[02:15] <RoyK> but gotta go - time's like 4:15
[02:35] <amarcolino> Hi, I have added myself to the web group (www-data), when creating a directory the ownership goes to the user then the group (foobar:www..) is there a way to set it to the group then owner or what I would like is to keep it as the group but still permit me the user to add, delete and read files?
[02:37] <heyman> I have an emergency for work! I'm having problems mounting devices so I decided that I'll try wget or curl or something to retrieve the files from another location.
[02:38] <heyman> Are we able to use ubuntu one with server, or even dropbox? I just need a simple solution to get two small files on my ubuntu server vm
[02:44] <amarcolino> dropbox has a command interface so yes, n a quick check on google has given me to support what I thought http://rbgeek.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/how-to-install-and-configure-dropbox-on-ubuntu-server-12-04-lts/
[02:46] <amarcolino> I assume ubuntu one would be the same but I havent checked
[02:57] <heyman> thanks amarcolino
[04:42] <Komplex> Can anyone answer a question?
[04:44] <Komplex> Considering moving multiple services that are currently running on winblowz servers presently.  Does anyone know if 12.10 or 13.04 server edition fully utilizes the RAM on a machine?
[04:45] <Komplex> for some reason I am only seeing 8 gigs out of 16 on a box I installed it on... just seemed odd... wanted to see if anyone ran into the same issue or not... thanks for your time.
[07:42] <Quest> i dont see any /var/log/fail2ban.log . the  iptables and service  fail2ban status says that fail2ban is running fine.. any clue?
[08:08] <Quest> i would say then which distros are best for servers if wanted to be free and maintain our selfs?
[10:23] <Quest> ports can be forwarded by routers/switches and NATing can be done. how to do that if the thats a linux server instead?
[10:24] <dassouki> what is the terminal command that goes through the folder / file sizes and let's you go through them like if it were explorer
[10:24] <dassouki> i remember it starts with "n" ?
[10:31] <bekks> dassouki: "find" and "du -sh" :)
[10:33] <dassouki> ya i use those two but there was a command app, that cycles through your folders and displays the info in a tree, so you can go deeper into a folder, etc
[13:31] <amarcolino> Hi, I have added myself to the web group (www-data), when creating a directory the ownership goes to the user then the group (foobar:www..) is there a way to set it to the group then owner or what I would like is to keep it as the group but still permit me the user to add, delete and read files?
[14:30] <qman__> amarcolino, www-data is the user the web server runs as and should not own any files; you should create a new group for website file ownership
[14:31] <qman__> take note that, out of the box, all files in /var/www are owned by root, not www-data
[14:34] <amarcolino> I've already changed ownership to the www directory as well as adding myself to the www-data group, however, the issue is when I add files or directories www-data gets second ownership, which is not helpful because some directories and files can't be auto-updated since the web group is meant to have full access, so I am wondering how I can solve this and if it is possible other then manually changing ownership?
[14:41] <RoyK> anepanal1ptos: chmod +t /var/www
[14:41] <RoyK> that should make group ownership stick
[14:44] <amarcolino> RoyK, will try that even knowing it was intended for someone else
[14:45] <RoyK> heh - sorry ;)
[14:46] <RoyK> chmod g+t, perhaps
[15:03] <amarcolino> RoyK, no good, if I were to create a test directory ownership would be my username and group would be www-data, however, I just thought that wouldn't be a problem if everytime something is created it would be given read and write permission by default, which it isn't
[15:05] <amarcolino> Royk, thanks I will work on this when I have more time
[15:05] <RoyK> then the umask is wrong
[15:07] <amarcolino> Royk, how would I check the umask?
[15:15] <userr> chat clients disconnect (after a while) when i switch to another Xorg server (by using ctrl+alt+F8). how does the former Xorg server ("at F7") tell that i switched away from it? i need to suppress that.
[15:24] <RoyK> amarcolino: depends on how you upload things
[17:52] <bjrohan> In my home directroy in Ubunty server, I have a file "=" what is this file?
[17:53] <bjrohan> cat "=" gives 13.04 12.10
[17:56] <jacobw> bjrohan: That's not part of the distribution
[17:57] <shauno> seems a pretty sane guess that it's a mistake somewhere.  something that's directing when its meant to be comparing
[17:58] <bjrohan> Hmm. I installed the distro fresh, installed KDE, and alfresco (with tomcat, sql etc) that is all
[18:01] <jacobw> There's might be an error in the Alfresco installer that creates that file in $PWD
[18:06] <jacobw> bjrohan: Did the installer exit successfully?
[18:06] <bjrohan> Yes
[18:06] <jacobw> In that case, I'd remove the file and carry on
[18:07] <bjrohan> Ok. I am the owner of the file
[18:07] <jacobw> If you ran the script as your user, you'll be owner of any files created by the script
[18:10] <bjrohan> What would the ownership look like if it was something that was created during the dist install?
[18:12] <bjrohan> Also, I encrypted the user home directories on install. Given this, can I using sudo 1.) see, or 2.) access files in another users encrypted directory?
[18:14] <bjrohan> Say the file and dir both do NOT have not permissions granted to anyone but the user
[18:16] <jacobw> sudo ecryptfs-recover-private
[18:22] <bjrohan> jacobw: If I am understanding right, that is a way to recover encrypted data if one knows the passphrase (say a hdd craps out and you can no longer boot from it, use this command from a livecd to recover the date)?
[18:23] <jacobw> That's right
[18:24] <jacobw> bjrohan: ecyptfs volumes are mounted when the user logs in and unmounted when the user logs out
[18:24] <bjrohan> To get down to brass tacks, if users home directories are encrypted, I as the sys admin, can not use sudo to access their files b/c I don't have their passphrase, whereas if it is NOT encrypted, I can use sudo to access the files.
[18:24] <jacobw> That's right
[18:24] <bjrohan> Nice, I understood it correctly :-)
[18:26] <jacobw> bjrohan: You can see their files when they're logged in because you have root access to the filesystem and their encrypted data is mounted in the filesystem
[18:27] <jacobw> bjrohan: When they're logged out, their encrypted data is just an encrypted file that you don't have the passphrase to
[18:27] <bjrohan> That makes sense :-)
[18:28] <bjrohan> Thank you for the info
[18:28] <jacobw> bjrohan: However, there's the passphrase and the encryption key, the passphrase is just a wrapper around the encryption key. If you have the encryption key you can always decrypt the file
[18:29] <jacobw> bjrohan: The encryption key cannot change after the file is created, if you log the encryption key when the ecryptfs is created, you can access it whenever you want
[18:30] <jacobw> bjrohan: The passphrase is just a way of accessing the encrypted encryption key on disk with the login password
[18:32] <bjrohan> Very similar to GPG
[18:32] <jacobw> It's the same scheme
[19:00] <Jeeves_Moss> what would cause a SSH session to hang during a write to a new ZFS tank?  I just made a new tank with RAIDZ2, and now when I move anything larger than a 1Gb file, it locks up
[19:09] <RoyK> Jeeves_Moss: zfs-fuse?
[19:09] <three18ti> do apparmor profiles use "#" for comments?
[19:10] <three18ti> this is my /etc/apparmor.d/libvirt/TEMPLATE: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/247709
[19:10] <three18ti> #include <abstractions/libvirt-qemu>
[19:10] <Jeeves_Moss> RoyK, no, native
[19:10] <three18ti> is that actually including anything?
[19:10] <Jeeves_Moss> RoyK, there dosen't look to be any disk activity
[19:11] <RoyK> Jeeves_Moss: ubuntu doesn't have native zfs
[19:11] <Jeeves_Moss> apt-get install ubuntu-zfs
[19:12] <RoyK> no such package
[19:12] <Jeeves_Moss> RoyK, and have they fixed the expand features so you can add disks to a pool to expand the sapace?
[19:13] <Jeeves_Moss> RoyK, ubuntu-zfs is already the newest version.
[19:15] <RoyK> Jeeves_Moss: it's not in the repos
[19:16] <Jeeves_Moss> RoyK, I literly just ran it
[19:16] <RoyK> E: Unable to locate package ubuntu-zfs
[19:16] <RoyK> that's on raring
[19:16] <RoyK> and quantal
[19:16] <Jeeves_Moss> https://launchpad.net/~zfs-native/+archive/stable/
[19:17] <RoyK> yes, it's a ppa
[19:17] <Jeeves_Moss> yea
[19:17] <RoyK> not official ubuntu
[19:17] <Jeeves_Moss> hummm
[19:17] <Jeeves_Moss> I'm wondering if I should roll the data out of the tank and fire up the fuse version
[19:19] <RoyK> I've been working with zfs for some years
[19:19] <RoyK> on opensolaris/openindiana
[19:20] <RoyK> and it's brilliant for its use, but I chose md for my home server
[19:20] <RoyK> zfs lacks flexibility
[19:21] <blkperl> how does zfs lack flexibility?
[19:22] <blkperl> zfsonlinux works rather well on ubuntu
[19:24] <jacobw> It depends what you need, most of the components of ZFS are available in other stacks
[19:24] <jacobw> RAID/LVM is simple, COW isn't
[19:27] <Jeeves_Moss> ugh, this lockup is pissing me off
[19:27] <Jeeves_Moss> how can I track IO issues
[19:28] <jacobw> Jeeves_Moss: iotop
[19:28] <jacobw> Jeeves_Moss: Also, see IO wait/delay in top and other things
[19:28] <Jeeves_Moss> jacobw, shows nothing moving
[19:30] <jacobw> Jeeves_Moss: Do you see anything in syslog/dmesg/kernlog?
[19:30] <Jeeves_Moss> jacobw, checking.  I've tried moiving from USB to the root disk, and everything works.  It just locks up when I try to write to the ZFS tank
[19:32] <Jeeves_Moss> jacobw,  failed: use vmalloc=<size> to increase size.
[19:42] <RoyK> blkperl: you can't add more drives to a VDEV
[19:43] <RoyK> blkperl: you can't rebalance a pool if more VDEVs are added
[19:43] <RoyK> blkperl: really, it's just fixed - it's good for well-planned long-term storage, but not if you want it flexible
[19:44] <RoyK> blkperl: and you can't change RAIDz levels either
[19:44] <RoyK> nothing can be changed
[19:45] <Jeeves_Moss> yea.  once it's built, you're kinda effed
[19:45] <Jeeves_Moss> this one is for a storage pool for VMs
[19:46] <RoyK> zfs rocks - but it's not very flexible - that's my motto
[19:46] <jacobw> It's flexible if you have a large array
[19:46] <RoyK> no, it's not
[19:46] <RoyK> you can add a new VDEV, ok, but it won't rebalance the raid
[19:47] <jacobw> vdev being a block device?
[19:47] <jacobw> LV/whatever the ZFS term is
[19:47] <RoyK> that'll require the block pointer rewrite, which was posted as an idea some four year back
[19:47] <RoyK> but never implemented
[19:48] <RoyK> a vdev is a mirror or a raidz?
[19:49] <RoyK> zpool create mirror d1 d2 mirror d3 d4
[19:49] <RoyK> makes two vdevs
[19:49] <jacobw> I haven't heard the term vdev before
[19:49] <RoyK> heh
[19:49] <RoyK> then you don't know zfs
[19:49] <jacobw> Well, I don't
[19:50] <jacobw> Now Unity has crashed :|
[19:50] <RoyK> zpool create asdf raidz2 d1 d2 d3 d3 d4 raidz2 d5 d6 d7 d8 d9
[19:50] <RoyK> two vdes
[19:50] <RoyK> vdevs
[19:51] <RoyK> (albeit bad syntax)
[19:51] <blkperl> RoyK: ah ok, yep those things will probably be around for a long time
[19:51] <jacobw> OK, so vdevs are PV in the LV group in ZFS terminology?
[19:54] <jacobw> http://pthree.org/2012/12/04/zfs-administration-part-i-vdevs/
[19:54] <jacobw> :)
[19:55] <RoyK> jacobw: really, I've been working with zfs for 3 years or so :P
[19:56] <jacobw> OK
[19:57] <RoyK> no, in LVM terminalogy, a PV is a disk, a VDEV is a group of disks set in a mirror or raidz-something
[19:57] <jacobw> I see
[19:57] <RoyK> better use MD if you want flexibility
[19:58] <RoyK> chances for silent errors are rather low with small volumes, as in <20TB
[19:58] <RoyK> or <100TB even
[19:58] <jacobw> Agreed
[19:59] <jacobw> Er, silent errors? As in write holes?
[19:59] <RoyK> silent errors are when the drive doesn't report an error but delivers bad data
[19:59] <jacobw> I see
[20:00] <RoyK> whenever they get bp rewrite into zfs, it'll be fun
[20:00] <jacobw> What do you mean by rebalance the RAID?
[20:00] <jacobw> BP?
[20:01] <RoyK> block pointer rewrite
[20:02] <RoyK> if you add another drive to an md raid, it'll re-balance the data
[20:03] <RoyK> if you add another vdev to zfs, it won't do much, just try to smear the data over the lot
[20:03] <RoyK> rebalancing means moving the data over the existing vdevs to make performance better
[20:03] <jacobw> I see
[20:05] <jacobw> What kind of performance difference does that make?
[20:06] <jacobw> I didn't know mdraid did that
[20:13] <RoyK> jacobw: it means new writes will only go to the new vdev
[20:13] <RoyK> earlier it would make the zfs performance almost halt, but that's been fixed
[20:16] <jacobw> I see
[20:16] <jacobw> It sounds as if rebalancing is different the RAID and ZFS contexts
[20:18] <jacobw> I'm trying to find references to it and hitting a lot articles about distributed filesystems like GlusterFS and proprietary SAN stuff
[20:24] <RoyK> glusterfs comes on top of zfs or md
[20:25] <RoyK> zfs is fine if you have a fixed set of disks and can plan things well
[20:25] <RoyK> if you want to add more disks, it gets complicated
[20:26] <Quest>  In Linux, how is it possible to merge/combine 3 internet connections (Dsl/fiber) (actually by eth1,2,3) and supply those to eth4. many client can be connected on a switch that is connected to eth4 of the server. The server does the load balancing and if one eth of 1,2,3, goes down. it shifts traffic to remaining 1,2. I have seen this in microtck router.  How is it possible in Linux?
[20:28] <RoyK> Quest: see http://www.lartc.org/
[20:28] <RoyK> Quest: it's not trivial, but quite doable
[20:32] <Quest> RoyK,  hm. thats how microtick did it?
[20:34] <RoyK> Quest: well, just try
[20:34] <Quest> where to start
[20:34] <RoyK> read the docs, for a start
[20:34] <Quest> oh ok
[20:56] <codepython777> is there a way to put a network bandwidth quota on each user when the network usage reaches above certain threshold? (something easy to use compared to ip tables)
[21:16] <jacobw> Quest: Mikrotik RouterOS can bond interfaces using LACP, if that's what you want to do
[21:20] <Quest> jacobw,  what is lacp?
[21:21] <jacobw> Quest: If you want to balance sessions over 3 subnets read those docs, and have a look at this, http://parkersamp.com/2010/03/howto-using-linux-as-a-simple-load-balancer-nat-router-firewall/
[21:23] <jacobw> Quest: Link Aggregation Control Protocol, it combines Ethernet ports in to channels, like port channel
[21:23] <Quest> hm\
[21:24] <Quest> jacobw,  i thought they used http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.rpdb.multiple-links.html
[21:24] <Quest> jacobw,  and i think you have experience with mikrotick OS. its linux of their own? or theres some underlying os they use like centos or ubuntu?
[21:25] <jacobw> Quest: I wasn't sure what you were talking about at first
[21:26] <Quest> jacobw,  and i think you have experience with mikrotick OS. its linux of their own? or theres some underlying os they use like centos or ubuntu?
[21:28] <jacobw> Quest: RouterOS is Linux based, but Mikrotik have replaced parts of the networking stack and included in house implementations of things like MPLS
[21:28] <jacobw> Quest: If you look at the firewall interface, it's quite clearly iptables
[21:29] <Quest> hm
[21:29] <Quest> jacobw,  i was wondering if it uses a known os underneath so i can use a package manager and install apps further in it?
[21:30] <jacobw> Quest: No, that's certainly not possible :)
[21:32] <Quest> :(
[21:33] <jacobw> Quest: RouterOS uses the Linux kernel only, it uses Mikrotik own userspace
[21:34] <Quest> hm. thanks
[21:34] <Quest> it will take quite long for me to do what mikrotik doesn, in pure linux and iptables
[21:35] <jacobw> Quest: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Route#Multipath_.28ECMP.29_routes
[21:37] <jacobw> Quest: The page you just linked from LARTC has everything you need for your scenario
[21:41] <Quest> jacobw,  thanks!


[06:43] <dedunu> hi
[06:43] <dedunu> guys
[06:43] <dedunu> I want to help
[06:43] <dedunu> so can anybody help me to start to help?


[07:05] <pipedream> I have a case where dh_install turns a symlink into an empty folder. (please assist)
[07:06] <pipedream> 0 jan@snapperkob:~/src/sagemath-upstream-binary/sagemath-upstream-binary/debian$grep local install
[07:06] <pipedream> amd64/local /usr/lib/sagemath
[07:08] <pipedream> 0 jan@snapperkob:~/src/sagemath-upstream-binary/sagemath-upstream-binary/debian$ls -ldp ../amd64/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax/
[07:08] <pipedream> lrwxrwxrwx 1 jan  jan    32 Apr 17 23:19 ../amd64/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax -> ../../../../../../share/mathjax//
[07:08] <pipedream> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Apr 25 06:39 /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax//
[07:08] <pipedream> ah
[07:08] <pipedream> is this query supposed to go to ubuntu-packaging.
[07:08] <pipedream> soz
[08:30] <mitya57> pipedream: I think you should link using dh_link, after installing everything else
[08:59] <mitya57> pipedream: also your packaging looks broken, there should not be "amd64" hardcoded or "local"
[09:00] <pipedream> Will dh_link overwrite an existing directory?
[09:00] <pipedream> mitya57: this is a large open source tree currently packaged as a binary package as debianization is in progress for 6 years now
[09:00] <pipedream> so I copy a built binary (including the open source tree) into place
[09:00] <pipedream> ppa:aims/sagemath
[09:00] <pipedream> www.sagemath.org
[09:01] <pipedream> so the packaging is temporarily broken but fulfilling a community need for several years
[09:01] <pipedream> "broken"
[09:01] <pipedream> it uses dh_install to copy stuff into place, as if it were a binary package
[09:01] <pipedream> never mind that
[09:01] <pipedream> why does dh_install take a folder into place and then take folder/path/path/path/symlink and change symlink into a folder
[09:02] <pipedream> ?
[09:02] <pipedream> all the other 1000 symlinks un subfolders work fine
[09:03] <mitya57> pipedream: dh_link will overwrite existing files (it uses ln -sf internally)
[09:05] <mitya57> pipedream: I don't remember the details, but I think you really shouldn't do the linking manually before the dh_install
[09:07] <pipedream> sorry, which linking manuall?
[09:07] <pipedream> Oh, the stuff in the source tree
[09:07] <pipedream> I don't do it in the packaging
[09:07] <pipedream> I inherit a source tree with many symlinks
[09:09] <mitya57> pipedream: Did you try to collaborate with Debian Science team? I see there are some not-very-old sage-related packages there.
[09:09] <mitya57> Like http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debian-science/packages/sagenb.git/
[09:10] <pipedream> Yes, I do
[09:11] <pipedream> That is in progress since 2008, died in 2010, resurfaced 2 years ago, and is a long term project to get almost 100 package version in debian right
[09:11] <pipedream> in the meantime, we need an auto-update single click install
[09:11] <pipedream> does dh_link always run after dh_install, or in the order of my rules file?
[09:13] <mitya57> If you are using dh(1), then dh_link is run after dh_install*
[09:18] <pipedream> (also WHY does dh_install chagne a symlink into a folder ... )
[09:19] <mitya57> File a bug if you think it's wrong :)
[09:19] <pipedream> it looks like ln -sf will create a symlink inside the folder, not replace the folder
[09:20] <pipedream> mitya57: not sure it is wrong, not experienced enough with packaging
[09:20] <pipedream> mitya57: many thanks, it will take me some hours to test
[09:20] <pipedream> I may have to just fix it in a postinst :(
[09:21] <mitya57> postinst is not needed, you can fix it in override_dh_install
[09:21] <pipedream> ah
[09:26] <pipedream> Could I add a dh_link in my override_dh_install just before running dh_install?
[09:28] <mitya57> Can you just call it after, preferably using debian/*.links?
[11:55] <pipedream> From my test with ln -sf, the symlink would be inside the folder not replacing it
[11:56] <pipedream> So I built a PPA with before dh_install (in my override_dh_install) a line:
[11:56] <pipedream> dh_link ../../../../../../share/mathjax/ /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax
[11:56] <pipedream> this at least fixes the bug for now
[11:57] <pipedream> I still want to figure out the root cause and do that better
[16:10] <teward> what's the general time before a backport request for Universe is looked at?
[16:10] <teward> (from filing with requestbackport to final processing)
[17:31] <micahg> teward: anywhere from a few minutes to weeks unfortunately, but I can have a look later if no one beats me to it
[17:31] <teward> micahg: OK, no rush, it's just a prerequisite backport for a ZNC backport.
[17:32] <micahg> I saw the znc/swig backport requests
[17:32] <teward> yeah those're the related ones
[17:32] <teward> (swig is the prereq)
[19:22] <teward> micahg: with regard to the swig backport request, would a build test in the same backport build tests PPA I'm already using (whcih only has the swig package) work?  I can't test locally right now due to not having a Linux system to test with.
[19:22] <micahg> yes, it should
[19:22] <teward> (sorry i'm a little lazy today, and don't want to open my web browser xD)
[19:23] <teward> OK
[19:23] <teward> micahg: can you un-X the box for the install/run test for swig3.0 itself for me as i'm in the middle of another task that takes precedence
[19:23] <teward> (otherwise I'll go edit the description shortly)
[19:23] <teward> (when done)
[19:24] <micahg> that's fine, it's set to incomplete waiting on you, so no rush
[19:31] <teward> i have a thousand things on my radar due today so meh
[19:31] <teward> :P
[19:37] <micahg> teward: no rush, can be whenever you get to it
[20:02] <teward> micahg: build tests are running, although I went ahead and also did the backportpackage for 'znc' pointing at the PPA for upload destination for both Trusty and Utopic
[20:02] <teward> since iirc a Utopic test is necessary for the backport.
[20:02] <teward> micahg: do you need me to file a separate backport bug against trusty-backports and utopic-backports for the znc backport?
[20:04] <micahg> requestbackport can file both at once, or if you want to use the existing bug that was filed for ZNC,  you can add a second task
[20:04] <micahg> (it just adds a second task)
[20:04] <micahg> s/it/requestbackport)
[20:05] <teward> micahg: right, i know it can file both at once - my question is if you want to for the existing bug against ZNC that requested the backport in the wrong manner
[20:05] <teward> i'm tempted to file via requestbackport and then reference the bug against Ubuntu's ZNC package in it like I did for the swig dependency.
[20:06] <teward> or mark the existing package-targeted bug as a dupe against the backports target bug, but meh
[20:06] <micahg> that's fine, whatever is easiest for you
[20:06] <micahg> sometimes I copy/paste from requestbackport, sometimes I file a new one
[20:09] <teward> mmm
[20:19] <teward> micahg: what do we do about reverse suggests?
[20:19] <teward> i'm not 100% familiar on testing those so a primer/explanation would be nice
[20:19] <micahg> not required
[20:20] <teward> micahg: so where it says Reverse-Suggests under Reverse Dependencies in the output of requestbackport, i can ignore those reverse-suggests?
[20:20] <micahg> suggests are nice to have packages that enhance functionality, but aren't required
[20:20] <teward> (the relevant source packages don't build-dep)
[20:20] <micahg> yes
[20:20] <teward> I'll make a note there, thanks.
[20:21] <teward> micahg: what about debug symbols?  In the past 'install' was the only test needed, with previous ZNC backports back in pre-Trusty or something, i forget how long it's been since i did a backport req of it xD
[20:22] <micahg> I don't think you have to worry about those unless something else depends on it
[20:22] <teward> OK - it's listed though in the 'install and run' tests.
[20:22] <teward> can I mark it as "Test Not required" or is an installation test sufficient
[20:22] <micahg> yeah, that's automated output
[20:22] <micahg> installation should be fine
[20:23] <teward> i'll make a note as to why it doesn't need a runtest (as it's just debug symbols)
[20:27] <teward> micahg: filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/trusty-backports/+bug/1449248 - i just need to wait for the PPAs to finish publishing then I'll do runtime tests.  Assuming I still have a utopic VM.  If not i"ll have to go find a Utopic ISO or something to test with...
[20:27] <micahg> ok, thanks
[20:27] <teward> (the previous bug on this has been marked as a dupe of this one, because that's the easiest thing to do in this case)
[20:27] <micahg> I'll keep an eye on my email
[20:31] <teward> OK.  the swig3.0 test is done though since it built without incident on Trusty in that PPA per our discussion.
[20:32] <teward> micahg: also note that for the ZNC backport request, I've gone and actually defined the run tests and the install tests, and why -dbg has no run test.
[20:32] <teward> (because i'm paranoid about details xD)
[20:33] <micahg> thanks, I like details :D
[21:08] <teward> micahg: there needs to be one tiny packaging fix to make the dev tools work fine, and it just needs to call upon libicu-dev in the build deps for znc-dev... :/  that's already existing in Utopic and makes module builds work seamlessly.  (This is a bug identified in my PPA version for ZNC stable (from Debian) as well, and I have it on my radar to test Debian as well)
[21:10] <micahg> teward: is that a fix needed in later releases?
[21:11] <teward> micahg: yes, in utopic and vivid, and while I could easily debdiff it in a matter of seconds it still needs upstreamed to Debian
[21:11] <teward> it also needs the fix for Trusty as well
[21:11] <micahg> ok, let's fix it in the later releases and backport the fixed version then
[21:11] <teward> OK
[21:14] <teward> micahg: there's no Ubuntu bug on it, yet, but I know for a fact Trusty, Utopic, and Vivid are affected per https://bugs.launchpad.net/teward-ppas/+bug/1445163 which is actually where the unofficial ZNC PPA (based directly off Debian) is tracked.
[21:16] <micahg> ok, I can give you tasks for all the releases once there's an Ubuntu bug
[21:17] <teward> yep i'll nominate
[21:20] <teward> i'm targeting it to Vivid, actually, since that's affected, and a backport of 1.6 from Vivid would be impacted by this bug
[21:20] <teward> micahg: are you able to approve Vivid nomination for a bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/znc/+bug/1449271)
[21:21] <micahg> added for trusty-vivid
[21:21] <teward> micahg: that will only apply to backports - 1.4 and earlier don't have the issue
[21:22] <micahg> oh, haha, right
[21:22] <teward> (it affects Trusty - Vivid with 1.6.x but not preexisting variants in Trusty and Utopic)
[21:22] <micahg> I thoguht we had 1.6 in trusty and utopic for some reason :-/
[21:22] <teward> not yet :P
[21:22] <micahg> fixed :)
[21:22] <teward> micahg: granted my PPA does have it, but that's based off the Debian pacakge anyways :P
[21:22] <micahg> and those won't be affected once vivid is fixed :)
[21:25] <micahg> easiest thing is probably to get it fixed in Debian, sync'd to w, sru backport to vivid, and then regular backport to t and u
[21:25] <micahg> (assuming that's the only fix in the Debian upload)
[21:26] <teward> i only just filed it in Debian
[21:26] <teward> the system hasn't returned the bug number yet
[21:27] <micahg> well, it's simple enough to SRU on its own, but if Debian is quick to fix, consistent package versions make updates easier :0
[21:27] <teward> lol bugs.debian.org is slow in catching up xD
[21:30] <teward> micahg: agreed, hopefully Patrick Matthai is fast to respond/handle.
[21:34] <teward> well, in the interim i tested the other components of the ZNC source package and they work so meh
[21:40] <micahg> ok, so at least the swig backport can go forward
[22:03] <teward> micahg: correct.
[22:03] <teward> micahg: which would block any other backport anyways (ZNC or others needing swig3.0 although I don't know what does off hand)


[04:39] <marcelo> how do i remove completly kubuntu desktop,   when i first installed it was something like 450mb and now in the terminal when I do 'sudo apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop' is only wants to remove about 40mb.    I am new to linux and still trying to get around it....
[05:00] <hggdh> marcelo, (1) you are on the wrong channel -- #ubuntu is better; (2) kubuntu-desktop installs the KDE version of Ubuntu; deleting kubuntu-desktop just deletes *this* package, the rest is there; (3) really, try #ubuntu; (4) hope it helps ;-)
[05:01] <hggdh> this channel deals more with Ubuntu under gnome (desktop)


[02:28] <chasinglogic> is there anyway to show time remaining on the batter in the top bar?
[02:30] <chasinglogic> battery*
[06:45] <msevwork> hi guy is it possible to alter the size of the icon in Synapse launcher
[06:45] <msevwork> because its too huge for my taste :D
[09:47] <maurice_> Bonjour. Svp, je suis débutant. Quand je démarre mon ubuntu mate, il arrive des fois qu'il se plante et que je sois obligé d'éteindre l'ordinateur manuellement. Que dois-je faire? J'ai déjà fait mise à jour.
[10:58] <Skyrider> Ello all
[11:05] <Skyrider> Does mate (pi) come in lite version?
[11:11] <ouroumov_> hi Skyrider
[11:11] <ouroumov_> Skyrider, no
[11:11] <Skyrider> That's a shame.
[11:11] <ouroumov_> What would be a lite version btw?
[11:12] <Skyrider> no desktop pre-installed, and only the required components needed for it to work.
[11:12] <Skyrider> etc :p
[11:12] <ouroumov_> So a server build of some kind?
[11:12] <Skyrider> indeed.
[11:13] <ouroumov_> Maybe you could raise the idea on the ubuntu forums?
[11:14] <Skyrider> Kinda surprised there is no lite version available though.
[11:14] <Skyrider> Especially for the pi.
[11:15] <ouroumov_> It'd make no sense for Ubuntu MATE to make a version without MATE though
[11:16] <Skyrider> That is actually true, yes :)
[11:16] <Skyrider> But thus far, I can only find a 'mate' version of ubuntu for pi.
[11:18] <ouroumov_> gotta kill conn, bbl
[11:23] <nomic> mate is a "lite"
[11:23] <nomic> on rapsberry pi
[11:23] <Skyrider> If the desktop is being installed, its not lite.
[11:25] <msevwork> why not just raspbian lite
[11:25] <Skyrider> Because its debian -_-
[11:26] <msevwork> so? what difference does it make for a server distro?
[11:26] <Skyrider> Package wise? a lot.
[11:31] <msevwork> Skyrider, do you maybe know the answer to the question i posted earlier
[11:31] <msevwork> on how to decrease the size of the huge icon in the Synapse launcher :D
[11:31] <msevwork> the icon inside the launcher i mean
[11:31] <msevwork> like the "looking glass" when one invokes the synapse
[11:32] <Skyrider> I actually have no idea :(
[11:34] <nomic> .z.z.
[11:35] <Skyrider> Sorry
[11:36] <msevwork> :)
[11:36] <msevwork> np
[11:36] <msevwork> gonna ask at launchpad probably
[11:36] <Skyrider> I assume you googled it up? :p
[11:36] <msevwork> yes
[11:36] <msevwork> nothing comes up
[11:36] <msevwork> i even used the search tool and looked inside files :D
[12:00] <mate|86107> iosjose.blogspot.com
[13:14] <kierons-pi> hi
[13:32] <wizd3m> hey peeps
[13:36] <mate|18065> Hello everyone! I'm trying to install Ubuntu Mate 16.04 on my Asus N552VW, with Win 10 already installed. I've disabled secure and fast boot, but when i start the live the notebook is stuck in the loading screen and i have to force restart! Any suggestion?
[13:38] <wizd3m> Try to add the nomodeset option when in the startscreen. Just press E to edit and add nomodeset to the last options.
[13:39] <mate|18065> I'll try!
[13:39] <wizd3m> just be sure to add it between ro and quiet ;)
[13:40] <mate|18065> Ok thanks!
[13:40] <wizd3m> this option forces your computer not to use your GPU
[13:40] <wizd3m> yw
[17:52] <nash_> how to enable wifi indicator
[18:10] <mate|65431> Standard question I guess, but what to start with after installing ubuntu?
[19:37] <khw> ether, My computer froze (bug in Ubuntu), and I didn't write down the chain you mentioned before that happened.
[19:38] <Akuli> so far i've found one bug that can crash my system
[19:39] <Akuli> if i enter a really looooooooooooooooong command to the terminal ubuntu's command-not-found-handle fills up my ram :D
[19:39] <Akuli> i filed a bug, but nobody is interested in fixing it
[19:43] <khw> Oops, wrong window.  My bug is holding down  CTRL-E to scroll down in gvim.  By remapping that to individual commands, it makes it happen much less.
[20:32] <andy__> anone use multiwii
[22:00] <ubuntu-mate> hola alguien en español
[22:01] <rumflump> !es
[22:21] <brian_> i know this isn't exactly a problem with my system, but is there some sort of binding or libary, or even official documentation on making a panel applet for gnome/mate based systems? My goal is to make a start menu GUI for mate, but i cant really find too much on it, at least in python.
[22:31] <rahtgaz> brian_: check also the ubuntu channel. But in short, I've been trying to find information on the exact same thing for some time and the information just doesn't seem to be anywhere, or is too dispersed and incomplete making it very hard to put up a complete picture of the gnome interface.
[22:32] <rahtgaz> I eventually gave up thinking it was too much work, just to try and understand what is, where is it and how to use the API
[22:32] <brian_> i know cinnamon has documentation on a JS applet, but thats different :(
[22:37] <rahtgaz> as much as I love MATE, i think that if the documentation situation isn't improved, it will be very hard for it to gain new blood as old blood moves on to other things... and it will eventually disappear. DEs like Cinnamon and Budgie seem to be in a better position to eventually displace it
[22:40] <rahtgaz> It's been quiet a few years now since Gnome 2 was an influential DE and there's plenty of new people out there (like me, and possibly you) that are eager to contribute but weren't around the linux OS during the days of gnome 2 and so have no knowledge of its workings. Without documentation, we are basically left out of options
[22:41] <brian_> well... LXQT is trying to modernize what LXDE was, so perhaps if they are succesful we may have a more modern updated alternative.
[22:44] <brian_> rahtgaz, found this recent article http://candidtim.github.io/appindicator/2014/09/13/ubuntu-appindicator-step-by-step.html
[22:45] <brian_> rahtgaz, ive never really had a use for python GUIs, so im not sure, but since this integrates with the panel and allows you to display things, mabye it can be made into a menu
[22:47] <rahtgaz> It gets registered as an indicator though, so I'm not sure. Also there are some differences between Unity and MATE indicators. But its worth a shot.
[22:48] <rahtgaz> Also, I think the development board on our forums is ideal for this. if you can come up with a rough code draft, you may get some help from the developers... hopefully
[22:51] <rahtgaz> I just balk at the idea of coding it in python. I'm personally desperate for some knowledge on the C bindings
[22:54] <brian_> I dont program as a proffesion right now, i merely do it as a hobby, so i dont know too much, and i also dont know too much in other launguages other than python, i just find python convenient. So as for making a javascript applet im not too fond of the idea, because i would have to learn JS... Im going to ask on the forums and hopefuly see if anyone knows anything... but i have a feeling my search will come up short.
[22:54] <brian_> Also i have no experience in C... And i doubt you can use C#...
[22:57] <c-mate> geez dell d610 still chugging along
[22:57] <c-mate> even on a distro as light as this
[22:57] <rahtgaz> you should be ok with python for these type of tasks. MATE (most DEs for that matter) favor python as the default interface language
[22:59] <rahtgaz> hmm.. it's only 10 years old, c-mate. Shouldn't be noticeably slower. You mean during boot, or all-around slow
[23:00] <c-mate> during install
[23:00] <c-mate> takes it a second to think
[23:01] <c-mate> but thats cause im on kiwi during install
[23:04] <rahtgaz> it's probably nothing. it takes ages to install on my machine too. it's faster when installing on a VM on the same machine. go figure
[23:04] <c-mate> lol
[23:04] <c-mate> its doing aight install wise
[23:04] <c-mate> just not firefox
[23:04] <c-mate> firefox is a bit slow
[23:06] <rahtgaz> what else isn't? Browsers are living things. start young and fresh and after sometime old, slow and irritating
[23:17] <brian_> c-mate,  i like to use chrome or chromium, i get better preformance, with tab-suspender and adguard.
[23:20] <brian_> can a svg look just like a png?
[23:21] <brian_> the reason i ask is because the svg uses geometry, so im not sure if it would be able to present a detailed image like thousands of pixels can.
[23:21] <brian_> im thinking ill use pysvg, to convert a png image to svg, which will prevent downloading of the image on a web browser?
[23:24] <ouroumov_> Why would it prevent this?
[23:28] <brian_> my browser prevents downloading SVGs? i suppose i shouldn't assume


[15:57] <ikonia> hello Danishman
[15:57] <Danishman> hello
[15:57] <ikonia> how can the ubuntu operators team help you today ?
[16:04] <ikonia> ....ok
[16:16] <genii> Apparently their instincts told them to leave.
[17:29] <daftykins> Mendax could do with a +q or kick, confirmed troll.
[18:35] <k1l> [cholcobo[]] (~cholcobo]@<IP_ADDRESS>): cholcobo[]    = cholby?
[18:41] <k1l> yes, it was cholby.
[18:43] <k1l> seems like softlayer is cholbys favorite vpn hoster right now.
[19:56] <rww> favorite of a few other ban evaders elsewhere too
[20:30] <DJones> Erm, well, if thats the case and the host operators haven't responded to complaints, then ban the host and refer banned users to tehir provider
[20:32] <DJones> Obviously, this assumes that the the ircc have reported the multiple ban evaders to the host providers
[20:34] <k1l> i am not sure if they provide vpn/proxy/shell/vhosts very cheap or for testing or if some users on there runnning open proxies
[20:36] <DJones> If they're providing the host, they're responsible for their users, regardless of how they use the service
[20:37] <DJones> They have to take responsibility fo rwhat their users do
[20:39] <k1l> i agree on that. but in reality its "the user pays, so the user does"
[20:40] <rww> i see 5 or so users in #ubuntu with softlayer hostnames in the last fortnight that aren't abusive
[20:40] <rww> not counting cloaked users etc.
[20:40] <ikonia> these things normally have TOC, but the question is can you be bothered chasing it up and providing the 10 layers of logs/incidents/warnings etc thats required
[20:40] <ikonia> and then 9/10 nothing happens unless you really push and escalate cases
[20:41] <ikonia> or you can prove racist/homophic/$other_inflamitory content
[20:43] <DJones> No doubt about that, probably 90% of of hostname/cloak/tor etc users are regular people, folow guidelines etc, its just the 10% that cause issues, and providers aren't going to deal with their issues unless the 90% ofinnocent users are compling and affected
[20:43] <rww> i used to report to ISPs Way Back In The Day and never got anywhere at all. haven't bothered recently.
[20:44] <ikonia> I've had great results for ISP's/providers, but you've got be prepared to do it properly and/or chase/esclate
[20:44] <ikonia> escalate
[20:44] <rww> (i'd say significantly more than 90% of users of any given connection class are regular people, generally...)
[20:44] <ikonia> i'd hope so
[20:46] <DJones> rww: I think thats the issue, joe blogs complaining about fred smith to an ISP will get nowhere because the isp just files the complaint in box 13, they only act when the 90%+ of innocent (Paying customers) users complain to them
[20:46] <ikonia> DJones: I don't think that's true
[20:46] <ikonia> they will act, if you do it properly
[20:46] <ikonia> (I'm sure there are exceptions)
[20:47] <genii> I get pretty good response usually from the abuse contact in a whois. I used to rabidly go after the idiots attacking my home server machine this way.
[20:47] <DJones> ikonia: Yeah, I can remember reporting a user for child porn references, nothing happened by the ISP until I copies the police in on the complaint
[20:48] <ikonia> DJones: yeah, do it properly, even minor abuse and most tend to act
[20:48] <ikonia> and nor should it
[20:48] <ikonia> but fire and forget doesn't work
[20:48] <genii> Usually it's useful to include any relevant logs with timestamps that they can index to their own machines
[20:49] <ikonia> reading the TOS before reporting it, finding out where/how they break it
[20:50] <DJones> genii: Been there, done that including child porn references, was still ignored by a major UK ISP. they only acted after the police were informed as well
[21:29] <k1l> @mark #ubuntu pinkflu was cholby, too
[23:13]  * genii sips and stares at bazhang
[23:13] <valorie> oooo, staring contest?
[23:13] <k1l> or is he naked, again?
[23:13] <valorie> tailless at least....
[23:14] <genii> My method of pinging him ;)
[23:15] <bazhang> whats up genii
[23:16] <genii> bazhang: If you can read Mandarin I would really like if you could watch a video for me and then give a synopsis
[23:17]  * genii wafts the aroma of coffee around
[23:17] <bazhang> sure, whats the link
[23:17] <genii> bazhang: The factory is sending us these watch-gizmos but the ad to it isn't in English :(
[23:17] <genii> bazhang: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzkwMDE3MTI4.html
[23:23]  * valorie sips the cold-brew coffee
[23:23] <k1l> genii: not loading here
[23:23]  * genii gets out the Costa Rican medium roast beans
[23:24] <bazhang> Bluetooth watch phone call intelligent wearable companion Smart Watch bracelet headphones
[23:25] <valorie> I have a blend from the local roaster here
[23:25] <valorie> oooo, all the trendy tags
[23:25] <genii> Hehe
[23:25] <bazhang> some kind of headphone for use with smartphones, uses bluetooth
[23:26] <genii> bazhang: Yes, runs some OS I never heard of before today called Nucleus RTOS
[23:26] <bazhang> nice
[23:27] <bazhang> probably a hacked blackberry OS that routes all calls through beijing
[23:27] <genii> bazhang: They are sending us 10 of them, probably arrive in a week or two. Wanted to try and figure aout as much about them as possible before they get here. But the English documentation is sorely lacking
[23:28]  * genii grinds up enough beans for a few mugs and fires up the French Press
[23:28] <bazhang> genii, that has a taobao pricing/auction page if you wish
[23:29] <bazhang> the video fonts / speed made it very hard to decipher, so I went there
[23:29] <genii> bazhang: Cool.
[23:30] <genii> bazhang: Looks like North American pricing should be something like $99-$125 but that might be a tad high
[23:30] <genii> ( for what the hardware is and what it does)
[23:30] <bazhang> taobao.com/item/40223301082.htm?fromSite=main
[23:31] <bazhang> 488 rmb / yuan
[23:32] <genii> bazhang: Yes, as I thought, less than $99   ( about $89.50 CAD)
[23:33]  * genii carefully pours bazhang a full mug of the Costa Rican medium blend and slides it over
[23:33] <bazhang> a bit of  markup, not surprising as their profit margins are wafer thin
[23:35] <genii> I'll PM you factory price :)
<---- very familiar
[23:46] <bazhang> vague, lots of breaks for phone calls, no real issues apparent
[23:47] <genii> "time suckers"
[23:47] <k1l> yep. the behaviour rings some bells
[23:47] <bazhang> vampyr
[23:48]  * valorie passes the garlic basket


[01:47] <vorlon> this r-cran-xml autopkgtest failure looks an awfully lot like a wrong test to me
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: acorn [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [6.2.1+ds+~0.4.0+~4.0.0+really4.0.0+~1.0.0+~5.0.1+ds+~1.7.0+ds+~0.1.1+~0.3.1+~0.2.0+~0.1.0+~0.3.0+~0.3.0-13] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-pixmap [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.4-11-1] (no packageset)
[05:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-rdbnomics [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.5.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-matlab [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-1] (no packageset)
[05:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-pixmap [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.4-11-1] (no packageset)
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-pixmap [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.4-11-1] (no packageset)
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-pixmap [armhf] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.4-11-1] (no packageset)
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: r-cran-pixmap [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.4-11-1] (no packageset)
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-matlab [amd64] (focal-proposed) [1.0.2-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-pixmap [armhf] (focal-proposed) [0.4-11-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-pixmap [s390x] (focal-proposed) [0.4-11-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-pixmap [arm64] (focal-proposed) [0.4-11-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-rdbnomics [amd64] (focal-proposed) [0.5.1-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-pixmap [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [0.4-11-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted acorn [amd64] (focal-proposed) [6.2.1+ds+~0.4.0+~4.0.0+really4.0.0+~1.0.0+~5.0.1+ds+~1.7.0+ds+~0.1.1+~0.3.1+~0.2.0+~0.1.0+~0.3.0+~0.3.0-13]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted r-cran-pixmap [amd64] (focal-proposed) [0.4-11-1]
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted knot [armhf] (focal-proposed) [2.9.2-4]
[08:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openvdb [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1] (ubuntustudio)
[08:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openvdb [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1] (ubuntustudio)
[09:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openvdb [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1] (ubuntustudio)
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted bind9-libs [source] (focal-proposed) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1]
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openvdb [amd64] (focal-proposed) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1]
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openvdb [s390x] (focal-proposed) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1]
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted oem-qemu-meta [source] (focal-proposed) [20.04~ubuntu1]
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openvdb [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [6.2.1-8ubuntu1]
[09:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: oem-qemu-meta [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [20.04~ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[09:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted oem-qemu-meta [amd64] (focal-proposed) [20.04~ubuntu1]
[09:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: bind9-libs [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1] (no packageset)
[09:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: bind9-libs [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1] (no packageset)
[09:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: bind9-libs [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1] (no packageset)
[09:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted bind9-libs [amd64] (focal-proposed) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1]
[09:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted bind9-libs [s390x] (focal-proposed) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1]
[09:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted bind9-libs [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [1:9.11.16+dfsg-3~build1]
[11:40] <doko> ahasenack: please subscribe server team to bind9-libs. already promoted to get things installable again
[13:51] <ahasenack> doko: wilco
[13:55] <ahasenack> it won't migrate until I upload the real bind9
[14:21] <ahasenack> hm, not sure what's going on with the libreoffice/arm64 tests, there's just a console dump at the end of the failed run
[14:21] <ahasenack> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libr/libreoffice/focal/arm64
[14:22] <ahasenack> there are two boot logs, and one has a panic as it can't mount root
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-prosemirror-model [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.9.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ruby-autoparse [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.3.3-3] (no packageset)
[23:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-hashicorp-terraform-svchost [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [0.0~git20191119.d2e4933-1] (no packageset)