[00:25] <X3lectric> can anyone tell me how stop packages building for lpia
[00:26] <X3lectric> I just want to build for amd64 and i386 no powerpc etc etc
[00:27] <RAOF> X3lectric: If the package only builds (or is only useful) on amd64 and i386, then list those as the Architecture: of the package.
[00:27] <RAOF> But it's unlikely for that to be the case.  Why do you want to do that?
[00:29] <X3lectric> because I have no use for all other architectures
[00:29] <RAOF> What if other people have use for them?
[00:29] <X3lectric> i just specifies karmic and lucid and it built for everythisng and their grandmothers
[00:30] <RAOF> Why not?
[00:30] <X3lectric> ah well other people, very unlikly
[00:30] <X3lectric> this is platform specific builds
[00:32] <Rcart> I can't reproduce this bug 696900
[00:32] <RAOF> What problem are you trying to solve by only building on i386 and amd64
[00:32] <X3lectric> does it have to be a problem?
[00:33] <Rcart> When I do (in the branch) man ./readline.3 I got no problems with menu-complete-backward
[00:33] <X3lectric> Im asking if thers a way to limit just for those and how, if you dont know, say I dont know
[00:33] <directhex> X3lectric, this is a package for yourself, or one you want in the distro?
[00:33] <Rcart> Can anyone else please confirm it?
[00:34] <directhex> X3lectric, he already answered you btw, at 00:27. you were too busy being self-entitled to notice.
[00:34] <X3lectric> this is packags just for lucid and karmic used by other users but no need to build for all platforms especially lpia
[00:34] <RAOF> Indeed.  My *first* response contained the solution you're after :)
[00:35] <X3lectric> ok so where do I limit this?
[00:35] <X3lectric> rules?
[00:35] <RAOF> debian/control
[00:35] <RAOF> Again, this is a bad idea.
[00:35] <X3lectric> why?
[00:35] <RAOF> Because it's pointlessly limiting your audience.
[00:35] <RAOF> It doesn't cost you anything to build everywhere.
[00:36] <X3lectric> there is no audinece for the other packages, hence why its pointless
 X3lectric, this is a package for yourself, or one you want in the distro?
[00:36] <X3lectric> no but since its a free service I rather keep the space used to a minimum
[00:36] <RAOF> Should someone on powerpc later come and say “hey, why isn't this built for me”, you'll need to undo this work.
[00:37] <micahg> X3lectric: PPAs only build amd64 and i386 from Lucid on
[00:37] <X3lectric> mmm no
[00:37] <RAOF> If you're running your own build-farm and mirror, just don't set up a PPC buildd?
[00:38] <directhex> X3lectric, PPA builds are only for i386 and amd64. regardless of how many additional arches are defined in debian/control
[00:38] <X3lectric> im not that experienced as you may have already guessed by stupid question so pls dont fuse my brain with stuff i dont understand or want to atm
[00:39] <X3lectric> its a hobby not full time job
[00:40] <directhex> X3lectric, i will try a third time to extract an answer. <directhex> <directhex> X3lectric, this is a package for yourself, or one you want in the distro?
[00:40] <X3lectric> I wanna keep uploads also to a minimal
[00:40] <X3lectric> directhex: its not just for myself but it not to be included in a distro, its optional
[00:40] <RAOF> You only upload once anyway, because you only upload source.  At least to any Ubuntu infrastructure.
[00:41] <RAOF> X3lectric: What is your *goal* ?  You would like $FILL_IN_BLANK to be available $WHERE for $SOME_UBUNTU_RELEASES ?
[00:42] <X3lectric> goal is to provide a specific package that compliments a post install script for karmic and lucid only
[00:43] <X3lectric> and available on ppa for easy access for users of script
[00:43] <RAOF> Ok.
[00:43] <RAOF> So, you don't have to worry.
[00:43] <directhex> ... if it's a script, why even have architecture as an issue? arch-less software such as scripts and java software don't need per-arch packages
[00:43] <X3lectric> jebus
[00:43] <RAOF> You can't build for powerpc or arm or whatever in a PPA *anyway*
[00:44] <X3lectric> ask a simple question geta holy inquisition
[00:44] <RAOF> Well, and also an answer, as the very first response :)
[00:44] <directhex> X3lectric, ask half a question, get the correct answer instantly - and requests for clarification.
[00:45] <X3lectric> ok
[00:45] <X3lectric> can I stp ppa building for lpia
[00:46] <jfi> Hello,  is there some guidelines to follow or installation script  for adding an application in the list of startup application? or should I simply put the .desktop file into the xdg/autostart directory?
[00:46] <X3lectric> lpia always fails to build and has no use soI would like to stop ppa from building for lpia
[00:47] <RAOF> Rcart: Looks like it's correct here on natty.  Feel free to mark as fixed.
[00:47] <directhex> X3lectric, sure. change debian/control's Architecture: line.
[00:48] <directhex> X3lectric, but a script shouldn't need *compiling*, in which case there's no need for an i386 script and an amd64 script - you should only need an "all" script.
[00:48] <directhex> as denoted by "Architecture: all"
[00:48] <X3lectric> ya thats what it is
[00:48] <directhex> rather than "Architecture: any" or "Architecture: i386 amd64 lpia powerpc sh4"
[00:49] <Ampelbein> Rcart: it was fixed in the natty upload, check http://launchpadlibrarian.net/65041495/readline6_6.1-3_6.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[00:49] <X3lectric> but when karmic packages build it automatically builds for lpia (on karmic) and it always fails to build cuse its not meant to
[00:50] <directhex> X3lectric, it will do if you have Architecture: any, yes.
[00:50] <X3lectric> i know since lucid lpia is dropped but I wanted to know if I could disabled it or override it for karmic as well
[00:50] <Ampelbein> X3lectric: if it's 'Architecture: all' it will only build on i386 (for ubuntu), if it's 'Architecture: any' it will build on all.
[00:50] <X3lectric> mmm architecture is all
[00:50] <Rcart> Great! Thank you both (:
[00:51] <X3lectric> and biulding for amd64 and i386 and lpia
[00:52] <directhex> X3lectric, link to ppa?
[00:52] <Ampelbein> X3lectric: can you pastebin debian/control?
[00:52] <directhex> or that
[00:52] <Ampelbein> X3lectric: and debian/rules
[00:53] <X3lectric> control it says Architecture: all
[00:54] <directhex> X3lectric, then pastebin it, so we can determine what other problems may be happening
[00:54] <X3lectric> er
[00:55] <X3lectric> thers no problems, I just dont wnat karmic to build for lpia
[00:55] <Rcart> Please someone set the importance to low on bug 696900
[00:56] <directhex> X3lectric, and if you really have Architecture: all, then it should not be building for lpia. so there's a problem.
[00:56] <Ampelbein> Rcart: done
[00:56] <micahg> Rcart: bug setting should be in #ubuntu-bugs :)
[00:56] <X3lectric> directhex karmic will build for lpia cuase canonical still supports it after lucid its doesnt
[00:57] <X3lectric> so its not a "problem"
[00:57] <X3lectric> I just want to override it if thers a way
[00:57] <micahg> this conversation should move to #ubuntu-packaging
[00:57] <Ampelbein> X3lectric: again, 'Architecture: all' packages will only build on the i386 builder because they are architecture independent. so if a package with Architecture:all builds on lpia there is a problem!
[00:57] <X3lectric> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzczOA
[00:58] <X3lectric> read what that says if you dont believe me
[00:58] <Rcart> micahg: Sorry, I forgot that was in -motu T_T
[00:58] <directhex> GREAT
[00:58] <X3lectric> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-November/000643.html
[00:58] <Rcart> Ampelbein: Thanks (;
[00:58] <directhex> i just broke my keyboard in sheer frustration
[00:58] <micahg> X3lectric: this should move to #ubuntu-packaging
[00:58] <directhex> at attempting to communicate with X3lectric
[00:59] <X3lectric> :/
[01:00] <X3lectric> sorry to frsutrate you but its building lpia from karmic by design so thers is no problem
[01:00] <directhex> X3lectric, NO IT FUCKING ISN'T
[01:00] <directhex> X3lectric, BY DESIGN, IT WILL ONLY BUILD FOR ARCHES MANDATED BY Architecture:
[01:01] <X3lectric> what a nice person u are
[01:01] <X3lectric> read this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-November/000643.html
[01:01] <micahg> X3lectric: PPAs are really off topic here, so this conversation should move
[01:01] <X3lectric> educate yourself and take a chill pill
[01:02] <StevenK> X3lectric: If it's Architecture: all it will be *installable* on lpia, but it won't *build* on lpia.
[01:02] <Ampelbein> X3lectric: If you think there's no problem, just pastebin the debian/control file
[01:02] <StevenK> X3lectric: And I should be educated about it, considering I sent the mail to ubuntu-devel-announce.
[01:03] <X3lectric> not you
[01:03] <directhex> educate *myself*?
[01:03] <X3lectric> the guy with the efing words
[01:03] <X3lectric> that one
[01:03] <directhex> someone kick me, pronto
[01:03] <directhex> before i do something non-CoC
[01:03] <X3lectric> you aleady did
[01:03] <directhex> again
[01:05] <X3lectric> im off thx guys, ladies and germes
[01:05] <arand> Whois X3lectric
[01:05] <arand> Oops, soory
[01:10] <directhex> '[pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.kjjpo['''
[01:17] <psusi> can anyone spot anything obviously wrong with this attempt to register to get a dbus signal? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/577266/
[01:19] <psusi> I end up getting GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_dbus_connection_signal_subs
[01:19] <psusi> cribe: assertion `G_IS_DBUS_CONNECTION (connection)' failed
[01:21] <directhex> i have a k key!
[01:22] <directhex> .
[01:22] <broder> psusi: you're mixing gdbus and dbus-glib
[01:22] <broder> (one of them is dbus_g_; the other is g_dbus_. it's awesome)
[01:23] <directhex> s!
[01:24] <psusi> oh great... why are there two different but parallel apis?
[01:24] <broder> psusi: dbus-glib came first. gdbus is the new hotness
[01:24] <broder> gdbus is part of gio
[01:27] <psusi> so... what's the correct api I should be using to register without gio?
[01:27] <broder> psusi: you should be using gdbus, because it is the Future
[01:28] <psusi> ok, gpm is already using dbus_g_bus_get(), so I just need to use what it returns to register the signal handler...
[01:28] <broder> oh right. you asked me about this earlier
[01:28] <broder> and i concluded it's using dbus-glib (i.e. hasn't been ported to gdbus yet)
[01:28] <broder> so you should use dbus-glib. sorry
[01:28] <psusi> so... what's that mean? ;)
[01:30] <broder> psusi: with dbus-glib you use dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name to get an object that proxies to the dbus object
[01:30] <broder> then dbus_g_proxy_add_signal to tell the proxy about the signal you're watching for
[01:30] <broder> then dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal to hookup a signal handler
[01:32] <psusi> sigh... that sounds far more complicated than just registering a callback function
[01:32] <broder> and maybe deref the proxy when you're done - not really sure
[01:32] <broder> it's not actually that bad, and requires the same number of pieces of information as you're already providing
[01:32] <broder> line number count might even be about the same
[01:33] <psusi> a proxy is some kind of whole object I have to instantiate though isn't it?
[01:33] <broder> the curse of a high-level interface, yes
[01:34] <broder> i mean, the proxy doesn't cause it to go and probe the whole remote dbus object or anything
[01:34] <broder> it only has the overhead of a local gobject
[01:34]  * psusi has no idea how to do that
[01:34] <broder>  use dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name to get an object that proxies to the dbus object>
[01:35] <psusi> and then how do I connect a callback to the signal?
[01:35] <broder> dbus_g_proxy_add_signal, then dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal
[01:35] <psusi> hrm...
[01:36] <directhex> kitchen knife saves ;
[01:40] <directhex> more luck than skill: l restored
[01:40] <psusi> so what is the signal_name argument to dbus_g_proxy_add_signal?
[01:42] <psusi> is that just "Suspending" for org.freedesktop.UPower.Suspending?
[01:45] <directhex> yay, the F key i actually broke is on!
[01:45] <psusi> and the docs don't say what the signature of the callback is supposed to be...
[05:02] <virusuy> i have a question
[05:05] <virusuy> for example
[05:05] <virusuy> if i package a soft with gpl3 license y use dh_make -c licence
[05:05] <virusuy> right?
[05:05] <virusuy> but, if license is agpl?
[05:06] <RAOF> You write debian/copyright yourself.
[05:06] <RAOF> The standard licenses in dh_make are just for convenience.
[05:07] <virusuy> RAOF: Its that the only way ?
[05:07] <RAOF> Yes.
[05:08] <RAOF> You should be editing debian/copyright yourself *anyway* - dh_make only puts in a skeleton file which won't be correct.
[05:09] <virusuy> RAOF: but, why is not added.. it's a common and accepted license
[05:10] <RAOF> Because no-one's done it yet?
[05:10] <virusuy> RAOF: hahaha.. i understand
[05:12] <virusuy> RAOF: Thanks for your help
[07:07] <c2tarun> chrisccoulson: ping
[07:09] <c2tarun> need help with last comment on bug 728853 , How can I know in which variable I have to make change? I mean , my change is also working fine but may be conventionally wrong. How can I know where to make changes?
[07:30] <geser> c2tarun: part is experience (when you fix a couple of similar FTBFS you "learn" where to look) and part of how autotools works (I'm not very experienced with it either)
[08:05] <dholbach> good morning
[08:06] <Rhonda> good morgon
[08:06] <Rhonda> s/good/god/
[08:07] <dholbach> Rhonda, which language is that? :)
[08:08] <Rhonda> swedish
[08:08] <dholbach> ah ok :)
[08:08] <Rhonda> Jag Älskar Sverige!
[08:10] <jpds> was.
[08:11] <Rhonda> jpds: It's the title of a great song from Die Ärzte and means I love Sweden. The song is … well, typical for the band, with lyrics where you wonder what kind of drugs they are doing.
[08:11] <Rhonda> Most interestingly though is that Farin Urlaub (which means literally Driveinto Vacations) doesn't even drink alcohol, at all.
[08:13] <jpds> Rhonda: Oh, I really like that band. :)
[08:13] <dholbach> jpds, how's your German coming on? :)
[08:13]  * dholbach hugs jpds
[09:27] <iulian> Morning.
[09:52] <RainCT> Hey iulian
[10:25] <RainCT> didrocks: FYI: zeitgeist (now with only zeitgeist-core) 0.7 is in unstable, and a new zeitgeist-datahub (with the Vala implementation) is in NEW for experimental
[10:26] <didrocks> RainCT: thanks for the notice :)
[10:33] <X3lectric> I been advised to ask packaging question on proper channel but no one ever replies
[11:34] <directhex> if anyone feels a need to help X3lectric, the information he'll refuse to tell you is the PPA url: (https://launchpad.net/~team-iquik/+archive/xbmc-svn/+packages), the reason he wants to eliminate lpia from his list of architectures (build-dep on nvidia-glx component which isn't for lpia), and why it's trying to build for lpia (xbmc-live is Architecture:any)
[11:41]  * X3lectric never refused ppa url and thats not it
[11:49] <Rhonda> karmic doesn't have libvdpau-dev
[11:49] <Rhonda> It's as simple as that.
[11:51] <directhex> Rhonda, lpia doesn't. it's part of nvidia-glx, which was never provided for lpia. even though lpia was entirely capable of using the i386 nvidia binaries
[11:52] <Rhonda> directhex: rmadison -u ubuntu libvdpau-dev says it isn't in karmic at all?
[11:53] <Rhonda> http://packages.ubuntu.com/libvdpau-dev says the same
[11:53] <directhex> Rhonda, oh, it's in one of his other PPAs.
[11:53] <directhex> Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic/main libvdpau1 0.4-2~karmic~nvidiavdpauppa4 [24.9kB]
[11:54] <Rhonda> Ah, so the ppa uses other ppas to build?
[11:54] <Rhonda> That's … tricky to inspect then.
[11:54] <arand> In debian/* files, what is the recommended line length, is there one specified?
[11:55] <Rhonda> arand: Depends, but lower than 80 is usually nice.
[11:55] <Rhonda> * is a very broad term actually
[11:55] <arand> Copyright in this particular case
[11:55] <Rhonda> Like, the recommended line length of debian/compat is just a single digit :P
[11:55] <directhex> arand, keep the line length for descriptions in debian/control below 80 columns. otherwise it doesn't really matter
[11:56] <Rhonda> copyright file too, and changelog
[11:56] <directhex> oh, yes, 80 cols for changelog
[11:56] <directhex> copyright... some licenses aren't wrapped upstream, and i dislike doing that downstream
[11:56] <arand> Ok, I've been doing 80 on a hunch, and since my terminal window default to that...
[11:57] <arand> Yea, I wonder about that to, reformatting licenses...
[12:04] <arand> Also, if upstream does state e.g. CC-BY-SA and just a short notice with a link to the cc homepage, should I insert the CC license in addition, or is their license text enough?
[12:05] <Rhonda> The license has to go in in full.
[12:08] <arand> Right, thanks
[12:12] <directhex> or a link to the file in /usr/share/common-licenses
[12:19] <X3lectric> ppa requires some packages dependecies to exist in ppa itself otherwise it will fail due to missing deps
[12:20] <X3lectric> if the package depends on a specific package of courese
[12:26] <arand> Ok so I have this situation: http://paste.debian.net/109997/ First of all, I would need to insert the CC-BY-SA license here then? The abbreviate version or the full one, and where do i find a plaintext version of it, since I can't seem to find on eon the CC homepage :/
[12:28] <X3lectric> cant you destribute the licence with your packages and just mention it on each file pertainig to whatever pacge thhis is about
[12:30] <X3lectric> arand: What I would do is mention a part of license which specifies which license type  and where the full license can be found
[12:31] <X3lectric> arand: the full license being one complete txt file or whateer format suits you best
[12:31] <directhex> arand, which version of cc-by-sa?
[12:31] <arand> directhex: Unspecified by upstream :/
[12:31] <arand> Oh hang on
[12:31] <arand> directhex: It's 3.0, my bad
[12:32] <X3lectric> it does say it on the paste you did ;)
[12:33] <X3lectric> it even says where to find full license
[12:33] <directhex> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode ?
[12:34] <X3lectric> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
[12:35] <arand> Which can't be found in plain plaintext.
[12:35] <X3lectric> like direchex says his link provides full license
[12:35] <X3lectric> you want that in plain txt just make it
[12:36] <X3lectric> I think its something like wget link -O >>license.txt
[12:36] <X3lectric> lemme try
[12:38] <arand> Hmm, I don't know if there are any good ways to reformat html into txt...
[12:38] <Rhonda> w3m
[12:38] <arand> But I am just thinking that surely there must be a plaintext version of it already available somewhere?
[12:39] <X3lectric> second
[12:39] <X3lectric> im looking for the corect code
[12:41] <arand> w3m > seems to work well
[12:41] <Rhonda> X3lectric, arand: References to where the full license can be found is only valid for those stored in /usr/share/common-licenses - others have to be integrated in full in debian/copyright
[12:42] <Rhonda> directhex: And there is no CC in common-licenses, mind you. :)
[12:43] <Rhonda> arand: Actually, the "In the absence of an explicit license, content is considered" part sounds extremly fishy and might recieve a reject of the upload, at least within Debian, by the ftpmasters.
[12:44] <Rhonda> A reference in the copyright file to a website URL is definitely a no-go, because that one can change easily.
[12:44] <X3lectric> arand: wget http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode -O ~/Desktop/licence.txt
[12:44] <X3lectric> then you need to do some minimal cleanup and thats it
[12:44] <arand> Hmm, where does the license as such actually start and stop, I was thinking start at "THE WORK..." and end before the CC notice at "...applicable law."
[12:45] <Rhonda> Like said, w3m http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode > license.txt
[12:45] <Rhonda> That's more like it.
[12:45] <arand> Or should more be included in the license file?
[12:46] <Rhonda> Everything starting from License up to applicable law, yes.
[12:46] <X3lectric> depends on the needs specified by original person on attributions
[12:47] <Rhonda> attribution is on a different level, the license text is independent on that.
[12:47] <X3lectric> but the full licence has to be included
[12:47] <X3lectric> ya
[12:47] <arand> Rhonda: It is unclear indeed, but that is what is stated from upstream, and I feel like I've already bugged them considerably, even though the license still doesn't completely reflect their intent I don't think...
[12:48] <X3lectric> the liceneing terms are fairly clear
[12:48] <Rhonda> I'd tell them that "In the absence of an explicit license this isn't distributable, sorry."
[12:49] <Rhonda> If they are not willing (or able) to clearly state which rules apply we don't have the right to use, distribute or modify it. It's as simple as that.
[12:50] <X3lectric> what package is this anyways
[12:51] <Rhonda> If their software is important enough, the peer pressure on getting this fixed should be there. If it's not, it's their own loss actually.
[12:52] <X3lectric> Rhonda what arand pasted is quite clear
[12:52] <X3lectric> http://paste.debian.net/109997/
[12:53] <X3lectric> its says there
[12:53] <Rhonda> No, it is absolutely unclear
[12:53] <X3lectric> how so
[12:53] <Rhonda> It leaves everything open and states explicitly that there is no real license
[12:53] <X3lectric> In the absence of an explicit license, content is considered to be covered by
[12:53] <X3lectric>  the CC-BY-SA license, you may use the content in Red Eclipse so long as you
[12:53] <X3lectric>  obey individual licensing criteria. This does not apply to the Red Eclipse
[12:53] <X3lectric>  logo or other trademarks unique to the project.
[12:54] <X3lectric> quite clear
[12:54] <X3lectric> i cant see a problem
[12:54] <Rhonda> Quite clear on that it's unclear.
[12:54] <arand> That is only for certain bits though. It is a prospective game Red Eclipse Original license is http://paste.debian.net/109999/
[12:55] <X3lectric> In the absence of an explicit license, content is considered to be covered by the CC-BY-SA license
[12:55] <X3lectric> that say it all
[12:55] <Rhonda> Yes, that says (explicitly) that it doesn't has an explicit license. Consideration is guesswork.
[12:55] <X3lectric> which in this case is V3
[12:55] <arand> The "Limited rights are granted to redistribute or recompress the entire distribution" Is key as well I guess.
[12:56] <X3lectric> where is that implied?
[12:56] <arand> Which is a very un-free license, granted, but at least clear.
[12:56] <arand> Full license text linked above.
[12:57] <X3lectric> look here
[12:57] <X3lectric> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
[12:57] <X3lectric> that is VERY clear
[12:57] <Rhonda> Yes, *that* is clear.
[12:57] <Rhonda> That the work is covered under that though is explicitly stated to be unclear.
[12:57] <X3lectric> lol
[12:58] <X3lectric> imo there is no spoon
[12:58] <Rhonda> !lol | X3lectric
[12:58] <X3lectric> mk
[12:58] <X3lectric> says not in regular basis
[12:59] <X3lectric> once is not regular
[12:59] <X3lectric> mk
[12:59] <Rhonda> If you don't have an explicit license for a work, you don't have any grounds of using it.
[12:59] <X3lectric> oh lord
[13:00] <X3lectric> as long as arnad doesnt suggest that ed eccliose endorses the chages he can do whatever
[13:01] <X3lectric> I think you guys are just finding complications where ther is none
[13:01] <Rhonda> For themself everyone is of course allowed to do as they wish. But having no explicit license terms means that the package shouldn't get uploaded to Ubuntu.
[13:01] <X3lectric> but it does
[13:01] <Rhonda> It directly states that it doesn't.
[13:02] <X3lectric> beg to differ
[13:02] <Rhonda> That's fine, but it doesn't change it.
[13:03] <X3lectric> its 100% clear tha in the absence of a explicit licence by Red eclipse that the normal license applies
[13:03] <X3lectric> no complications
[13:03] <arand> Rhonda: Would the "you can distribute the whole package unchanged" clause at least make it distributable as "non-free" you think?
[13:04] <Rhonda> arand: unchanged is a clear trigger word for non-free/multiverse, yes.
[13:04]  * X3lectric knows enough law to know what is emplied here
[13:04] <X3lectric> arand read waht it says under adpatation
[13:05] <X3lectric> and destribute
[13:05] <X3lectric> and then licence grant
[13:05] <X3lectric> you can do whatever
[13:06] <arand> Rhonda: And in that case an unclear CC designation would be able to pass? Or would it still be an issue.
[13:06] <Rhonda> arand: If you consider, the Red Eclipse logo "or other trademarks unique to the project" (whatever that might be) should definitely get stripped out, btw.
[13:07] <X3lectric> indeed the logo and mentions of that must be stripped
[13:07] <Rhonda> Second thought, if the work is all theirs and they have the rights to it, the unclear statement in that can be waived because actually it's within their rights to distribute it under cc-by-sa then.
[13:07] <X3lectric> as well as your only obligation is to make clear your not associated with red eclipse
[13:07] <Rhonda> But a "unchanged" part doesn't comply with cc-by-sa, it's an additional restriction on that.
[13:08] <arand> Rhonda: Well no, there are several individual licenses for the graphics of the game.
[13:09] <Rhonda> Ah, that's then what they mean with the "obey individual licensing criteria"
[13:09] <X3lectric> other licenses have to respected same way
[13:09] <Rhonda> And actually, that's what they could refer to with the "in the absence of an explicit license".
[13:09] <Rhonda> Now it dawns to me that they mean with that everything contained that doesn't has an explicit license itself.
[13:10] <X3lectric> but as in this main one its very clear as long as you follow the attributions your ok and destribute under same license
[13:10] <X3lectric> Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
[13:10] <arand> What my current copyright looks like is so: http://paste.debian.net/110000/ but the full licenses are in many cases missing
[13:10] <X3lectric> that speaks volumes
[13:10] <X3lectric> the full licenses dot have to be included
[13:10] <X3lectric> just mentioned where they can be found
[13:11] <X3lectric> a link suffices
[13:11] <Rhonda> Somehow that doesn't flow.
[13:11] <Rhonda> "any changes beyond that require explicit permission" doesn't work together with their cc-by-sa claim for data/?
[13:12] <X3lectric> where is that?
[13:12] <Rhonda> It has to be included according to policy, X3lectric
[13:12] <Rhonda> Line 72 and onwards.
[13:12] <X3lectric> you complicating simpl e stuff again
[13:12] <Rhonda> No, I'm following the policy rules.
[13:12] <arand> Rhonda: I know...
[13:13] <arand> Rhonda: But that is what I gather the original is saying: http://paste.debian.net/109999/
[13:13] <Rhonda> "Every package must be accompanied by a verbatim copy of its copyright information and distribution license in the file `/usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright'."
[13:13] <X3lectric> he can do whatever he wants as long as license is same and doesnt specify hes associated or endorsed by original developers
[13:15] <Rhonda> arand: Ah, wait. That part should apply to the source then, and is fine.
[13:16] <Rhonda> That's actually the background behind DFSG #4.
[13:16] <Rhonda> As long as the orig tarball doesn't contain any non-free material that one would need to strip off that's fine.
[13:17] <arand> Rhonda: Ah, ok... I don't see why it is even there though, since the source code should be covered by the zlib/mit already...
[13:18] <Rhonda> It's different parts. The source code can get patched, and one could theoretically also distribute an already changed tarball with patches in it.
[13:18] <Rhonda> The first thing is allowed through zlib/mit, the second part though is something they chose to disallow.
[13:22] <arand> Rhonda: Ah, so that clause disallows distributing changed source along with everything else, however distributing changed source by itself is fine?
[13:24] <Rhonda> It disallows the tarball to be changed, but it allows distribution of the tarball and additional patch file
[13:24] <Rhonda> Which is actually what we do with non-native packages by default.
[13:26] <arand> Ok... but then one wouldn't be allowed to make a dfsg orig tarball?
[13:26] <Rhonda> Yep.
[13:27] <Rhonda> So this is only possible if the orig tarball doesn't contain any non-distributable content.
[13:27] <arand> Sauerbraten has a similar clause, which I think is what this one was modelled after: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-games/sauerbraten-data.git;a=blob;f=debian/copyright;h=96d677bbe25dc795bc56339997d569088d8f3e20;hb=HEAD
[13:27] <Rhonda> If it does contain non-free stuff that is at least distributable, the package has to go to non-free/multiverse
[13:27] <arand> But in this case it is used for the -data package
[14:21] <hrw> hi
[17:43] <jetienne> Found files in /usr/local (must be in /usr). <- this is the error i got in my build ? should i copy it in /bin ? why /usr is forbidden ?
[17:46] <geser> jetienne: /usr/local is for the local admin to install (unpackaged) software, packages should use /usr
[17:47] <jetienne> geser: so replacbin /usr/local/bin by /usr/bin and all is ok ?
[17:48] <geser> exactly
[17:48] <jetienne> geser: thanks
[17:49] <geser> many programs have an option to specify /usr as prefix (defaults to /usr/local). it's pretty common to those using configure
[17:50] <jetienne> geser: im making the package, so i can put whatever path is needed :) waiting for ppa build during debug is the painfull part
[17:55] <directhex> jetienne, learn to love pbuilder, for quick testing?
[17:55] <geser> jetienne: hint: use a pbuilder for local testing, with pkg-binary-mangler you can also have almost all tests the buildds do too (like the /usr/local one)
[17:56] <jetienne> directhex: geser: i tried to setup pbuilder and failed.
[17:56] <geser> oh
[17:56] <jetienne> any good tutorial ?
[17:57] <geser> !pbuilder
[17:57] <geser> don't know if the wiki page is still up-to-date
[17:57] <jetienne> this is a tutorial :)
[17:58] <geser> and there is also "pbuilder-dist" in ubuntu-dev-tools which helps with creating and usage of multiple pbuilders (e.g. for different Ubuntu releases)
[18:00] <jetienne> and it built!!! no need for pbuilder, houray :)
[18:01] <jetienne> geser: directhex: thanks for the help
[19:15] <arand> Using dh7, what section would I override in order to run a "convert src/icon.png debian/icon.xpm" command?
[19:34] <directhex> arand: i'd override something like dh_auto_build, and just make it a rule which does your thing, then runs dh_auto_build
[19:34] <directhex> asusking dh_auto_build exists
[19:34] <directhex> you get the idea
[19:46] <arand> directhex: cool, thanks
[19:58] <c2tarun> can anyone please help in fixing [GCC_ERRORs]?
[20:01] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: only if you tell us what the errors are ;)
[20:08] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: [GCC_ERROR] gui/calc/calc.c:589:4: error: 'GtkFunction' undeclared (first use in this function) here is the error
[20:08] <Bachstelze> looks like you have an #include missing
[20:09] <Bachstelze> but I'm not a Gtk expert
[20:23] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: is there any type of errors except LD_ERROR that I can attempt to solve?
[20:24] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: I doubt that there is something include missing.
[20:25] <ari-tczew> often these cases are fixed by changes in functions, so it should be fixed by upstream.
[20:26] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: are there other errors except LD_ERROR on which I could work upon?
[20:27] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: iirc lucas page has got 960+ FTBFS'
[20:29] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: most of them are LD_ERRORS, I am asking are there any other type of errors on which I can work? I am new
[20:31] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: are you bored by fixing LD ftbfs'?
[20:32] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: not bored :) but I want to learn something else too, I'll keep fixing them.
[20:33] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: you can fix security issues
[20:34] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: normally, a type of error doesn't say a lot about the error and how to fix it, all the LD_ERRORS we have now are a bit of a special case
[20:34] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: I may try, what are there requirements? I mean is there anything I should need to know/read before looking into them?
[20:35] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: policy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures
[20:36] <Bachstelze> ari-tczew: is there a list of security issues that need to be worked on? that would interest me a lot
[20:36] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/universe.html
[20:36] <Bachstelze> I don't think there is such a filter on LP, but I may have missed it
[20:36] <Bachstelze> thanks
[20:37] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: any help is welcome! :-)
[20:38] <ari-tczew> I encourage to fixing security issues in current devel - natty. It would help to release natty more stable.
[20:39] <jdstrand> Bachstelze: while working on natty is a good idea, if you prefer fixing stable releases of Ubuntu, that is most appreciated too
[20:40] <jdstrand> Bachstelze: there is a lot to work on, so you have a lot of choices :)
[20:41] <ari-tczew> jdstrand: don't be too demanding! :P
[20:42] <jdstrand> no, not being demanding, just saying if security updates are the interest, then there is a lot to jump in and work on. whatever is done is appreciated
[21:05] <MTecknology> Once a freeze exception has been approved; how long does it usually take to be pulled in if it's for a debian import?
[21:07] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: did you get a FFe ACK for sync new package from Debian?
[21:07] <ari-tczew> (I'm asking for more information)
[21:07] <MTecknology> from debian?
[21:07] <ari-tczew> or give lp bug, it might be the easiest way
[21:07] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: "in if it's for a debian import?"
[21:08] <ari-tczew> debian import = sync - right?
[21:09] <MTecknology> Bug 729691
[21:10] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: I guess iulian should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to bug.
[21:11] <ari-tczew> I can take care of it right now, I you would like.
[21:11] <ari-tczew> If*
[21:11] <MTecknology> sure, i saw that they subscribed ubuntu-release to it
[21:12] <ari-tczew> btw, would be nice if you could read something about syncs
[21:12] <ari-tczew> !sync | MTecknology
[21:14] <MTecknology> ari-tczew: I'll read through that all now; sorry for any trouble
[21:14] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: Don't worry, no problem.
[21:14] <MTecknology> actually... I'm gonna bookmark and read when I can concentrate
[21:20] <ari-tczew> if I want to test build package on unstable chroot, which pbuilder-dist should do I use? sid or wheezy?
[21:21] <MTecknology> sid
[21:21] <MTecknology> wheezy is testing
[21:24] <ari-tczew> which for experimental?
[21:24] <MTecknology> not sure..
[21:27] <MTecknology> ari-tczew: experimental is experimental
[21:28] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: pbuilder-dist knows how to deal with 'unstable', 'experimental' and doesn't need the codenames
[21:28] <ari-tczew> geser, persia, Laney, maco, bdrung, stgraber, cody-somerville: anyone around?
[21:29] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: are you sure if I won't specify release, pbuilder-dist will know how to deal and it won't use current devel ubuntu cycle?
[21:30] <bdrung> ari-tczew: yes
[21:30] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: and about bug 729691, why should the sponsors be subscribed? iulian is in release-team and confirmed, so next step is to subscribe ubuntu-archive, is it not?
[21:30] <ari-tczew> bdrung: I have complains about one application. can I write there or should do I discuss with DMB first?
[21:31] <maco> ari-tczew: is it an emergency? im in a class
[21:31] <ari-tczew> maco: nope, bdrung is here :)
[21:31] <maco> ok
[21:31] <bdrung> ari-tczew: you can leave a comment on the application wiki page.
[21:32] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: iulian wrote 'approve' but didn't specify for which - FFe or FFe + sponsor's ACK.
[21:33] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: release team members sometimes write ACK for FFe, but require review also by sponsors.
[21:33] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: status confirmed for sync request = sponsor's ack.
[21:34] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: so iulian forgot to subscribe ubuntu-archive?
[21:34] <c2tarun> where can I get security related bugs?
[21:35] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: yes, that would be my guess.
[21:35] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: look for affected packages, check there opened bugs. if there is no reported bug, you should file a bug if you want to work on it.
[21:36] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: before preparing a patch, check first whether Debian has fixed issue.
[21:37] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: please subscribe ubuntu-archive to your FFe bug.
[21:38] <MTecknology> ari-tczew: all done, anything else i should do?
[21:38] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: just wait for archive admins :)
[21:38] <ari-tczew> it should take a few days
[21:38] <MTecknology> alrighty, thanks :D
[21:39] <ari-tczew> ;-)
[21:39] <ari-tczew> MTecknology: thank you for your contribution!
[21:40] <MTecknology> ari-tczew: :)  ..  Now I need to try to sneak in a new app that is soon to be in sid
[21:41] <geser> ari-tczew: or if you don't want to make complains public you can also mail the DMB in private
[21:42] <ari-tczew> geser: I'm not afraid to tell public what I think.
[21:43]  * ari-tczew guess people here know about it.
[21:44] <geser> just wanted to mention that this option exists too
[21:44] <ari-tczew> okok
[21:48] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: do I have to understand the complete source code of a package before looking for the security issues?
[21:49] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: I don't think so :)
[21:49] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: just grab fix from upstream - look on website, git or something
[21:49] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: ok :)
[21:51] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: hey by git, I remembered, I read a documentation on SVN/GIT and there it was mentioned that git is lot better that SVN,still many packages follow svn, do you think that pacakges should be migrated from SVN to GIT?
[21:51] <ari-tczew> geser: do you remember when we've talked about Ledru's PPU wrong uploading? (via PM, check logs if you have)
[21:52] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: IMO git is better, but if you want to encouraging upstreams to migrate, there is no point :) it's they choice.
[21:53] <MTecknology> svn is ugly in my personal opinon; but many like it and i guess it comes down to what you know best; the thing I really have about svn is that it's centralized and every single directory gets its own .svn directory. That method gives you some benefits though
[21:53] <MTecknology> If you really want something to hate, try to use cvs
[21:54] <c2tarun> what tag should I use to search when looking for security related bugs on LP?
[21:55] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: no tag, just look on bugs filled on packages
[21:56] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: not getting, what do you mean by filled on packages?
[21:57] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elog
[21:57] <ari-tczew> click on Bugs
[21:57] <ari-tczew> and you will se
[21:58] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: did you try to use CVE tracker?
[21:58] <ari-tczew> I gave link some time ago
[21:59] <Bachstelze> jdstrand: can you please look at bug 731625 and tell me if I did everything right?
[22:00]  * jdstrand made it public
[22:01] <jdstrand> Bachstelze: please ask kees in #ubuntu-hardened. we have weekly roles on the security team, and he is processing community supplied debdiffs this week
[22:01] <Bachstelze> okay, thanks
[22:03] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: nice! very quick work!
[22:03] <ari-tczew> and seems pretty fine, I should check what-patch and test build
[22:04] <Bachstelze> what-patch said patchells
[22:04] <ari-tczew> then fine
[22:04] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: please describe where did you find a patch :)
[22:04] <ari-tczew> paste link on bug is fine
[22:04] <Bachstelze> I think I said it, I copied it from the ffmpeg package
[22:05] <ari-tczew> +    - libavformat/4xm.c - patch from ffmpeg package in hardy-security
[22:05] <ari-tczew> but you're targetting package to hardy-security...
[22:05]  * ari-tczew is confused
[22:05] <Bachstelze> yess
[22:05] <Bachstelze> ffmpeg had it
[22:05] <Bachstelze> but mplayer doesn't
[22:05] <Bachstelze> but it's the same code
[22:05] <ari-tczew> ah
[22:05] <ari-tczew> gotcha
[22:07] <firas> I guess I don't really need the fancy nickname here
[22:07] <firas> except it's registered already...
[22:08] <ari-tczew> firas: just write on your LP profile your IRC nick :)
[22:08] <firas> it is ther already
[22:08] <firas> oh well
[22:09] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: ah, it;s you
[22:09] <ari-tczew> why did you were trying to change nick?
[22:10] <Bachstelze> to make it more straightforward to correlate the name on the changelogs and the person on IRC I guess, but firas is registered already
[22:13] <ari-tczew> Bachstelze: I think it's not really needed. We have already some people here who have another LP login, another IRC nick and something else ;-)
[22:39] <blueyed> I am missing something in the new "3.0 (quilt)" format: after adding a patch (via quilt) I am getting a autogenerated debian/patches/debian-changes-6.10.58+dfsg-3ubuntu1 in the debdiff.
[22:39] <blueyed> What am I missing?
[22:40] <blueyed> I only want to add upstream_6.10.59.patch to the quilt series, and make a new upload from there.
[22:42] <blueyed> pastebin at of the debdiff output at: http://paste.ubuntu.com/577642/
[22:45] <Ampelbein> blueyed: yes, in source-3.0 it's a bit different.
[22:45] <Ampelbein> blueyed: you simply apply the upstream patch and tag/rename the auto-generated patch
[22:45] <ari-tczew> blueyed: just do quilt delete debian-changes-6.10.58+dfsg-3ubuntu
[22:45] <ari-tczew> 1
[22:46] <micahg> blueyed: you should do quilt push before you prepare the upload


[12:06] <troy_s> I need a Launchpad guru... anyone?
[12:07] <kiko> always!
[12:07] <kiko> what's up troy_s
[12:07] <troy_s> thank you!
[12:07] <troy_s> First, is there a way to remove old polls, or botched polls?
[12:08] <troy_s> Second, is there a way to adjust the calendar (the one for our team has a name attached to the top)
[12:08] <troy_s> Third, is there a way to change the actual root of the team page as ours has two links that are rather redundant and seem fixed (despite looking in details etc)
[12:10] <kiko> troy_s, a) not without database admin, but there is probably a way to close them out.
[12:10] <kiko> b) I'm not sure; I'd need to see the page to understand.
[12:10] <kiko> c) same as b)
[12:10] <troy_s> launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art
[12:11] <kiko> wow
[12:11] <kiko> what is this crazy calendar thing. it is a bug!
[12:11] <troy_s> laf.
[12:11] <troy_s> well there you go.
[12:12] <kiko> can you please file it? I'd say "Team calendar's heading is name of apparently random person!"
[12:12] <kiko> I'm still unsure as to what ou mean by your point c).. ah, do you by any chance mean the wiki links?
[12:13] <troy_s> its not random, it was our owner's name... but it appears stuck there.
[12:13] <kiko> okay
[12:13] <troy_s> yes... the wiki links are set in stone.
[12:13] <kiko> "Team calendar's heading is name of owner"
[12:13] <kiko> or is the problem deeper than just the heading?
[12:13] <kiko> yeah, c) is also a bug. how very strange.
[12:15] <HiddenWolf> So, I want to stop getting mail from a bug in malone on which I came subscribed due to a duplicate.
[12:15] <HiddenWolf> Now what do I do?
[12:16] <HiddenWolf> Can I unsubscribe from the original bug?
[12:16] <troy_s> kik:  How does one register a bug for launchpad itself?  I see Ubuntu's distro related... but the site itself?
[12:16] <troy_s> Hiddenwolf:  yes...
[12:17] <troy_s> Hiddenwolf:  go to the bug on launchpad, it should be relatively self-explanatory.
[12:20] <kiko> troy_s, products/launchpad/+filebug
[12:20] <troy_s> done
[12:21] <troy_s> thanks kik
[12:21] <kiko> HiddenWolf, the problem is actually identifying the original bug, right?
[12:21] <troy_s> i filed one for the calendar and one for the sticky stuff.
[12:21] <kiko> HiddenWolf, that's a bug bradb and I are thinking of how to fix properly
[12:21] <kiko> thanks troy_s much appreciated
[12:21] <HiddenWolf> kiko: I keep my mail, so I managed to find it, but yea, it's kinda counterintuitive to have to go back to the original bug.
[12:21] <troy_s> Nice work on the system overall though.  Quite impressive.
[12:25] <kiko> HiddenWolf, yep. we want to fix it, not sure how yet, though.
[01:37] <cprov> goodnight all
[04:01] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[05:21] <haloe> is this the ubuntu idea for launhpad place?
[05:31] <mpt> haloe, what do you mean?
[05:31] <mpt> You want to propose a new feature for Ubuntu?
[05:32] <mpt> or something about Launchpad?
[05:32] <ajmitch> good afternoon mpt
[05:32] <ajmitch> how are you?
[05:35] <haloe> oh hey
[05:35] <haloe> I just wanted to know if my pc can use ubuntu :)
[05:35] <haloe> x86? what does that mean?
[05:38] <mpt> haloe, what kind of computer do you have?
[05:38] <haloe> every linux should have the feature to play games :)
[05:39] <haloe> I have a pentium2 winXP: dont even think ubuntu will work
[05:39] <troy_s> haloe:  wrong forum.  but yes it will.
[05:39] <haloe> what does x86 mean?
[05:40] <troy_s> haloe:  head over to #ubuntu
[05:40] <troy_s> start there friend.
[05:40] <troy_s> good luck.
[05:40] <haloe> oh thnx :)
[05:40] <haloe> good thing I came here :)
[05:40] <troy_s> well everyone needs to start somewhere.
[05:41] <stub> lifeless: I'm cherry picking into ~/production/launchpad for testing and will push to production/1.63 if all successful (cherry pick only rollout for release paranoia reasons - shipit updates only, no database patches)
[05:43] <haloe> U BUNTU! lol
[05:46] <lifeless> stub k
[06:55] <stub> All tests pass except for the ones I expect to fail (session and quoting both have production fixes without the corresponding test updates being cherry picked)
[06:56] <stub> I'll push out the updates to the appservers only - no point disrupting anything else
[07:53] <lifeless> spiv: I have a favour to ask.
[07:53] <lifeless> tomorrow and thursday are hectic, with travel and whatnot.
[07:53] <lifeless> can you allocate reviews from general to reviewers for me on those days ?Just check once in your am.
[08:00] <spiv> lifeless: Sure, I can do that.
[08:01] <spiv> lifeless: As far as my queue goes btw, I did a review last night, but forgot to update the wiki until a moment ago, so I'm not quite as bad as I appear...
[08:10] <lifeless> stub: what plugs do they use in thailand ?
[08:10] <lifeless> (power plugs)
[08:22] <stub> lifeless: US or European
[08:23] <stub> (two thin round prongs or two thin parallel strips)
[08:23] <stub> You visiting?
[08:31] <lifeless> stub: -> uk via bangkok
[08:31] <lifeless> want to make sure I have the right plugs for the travellers lounge
[08:48] <stub> lifeless: Let me know if you want to stopover for a day or three - there is network at my place so you can work.
[08:49] <lifeless> stub: thanks for the offer - may take you up on it on a future trip.
[08:49] <lifeless> stub: wont be on this one though - got a meeting friday in london
[08:49] <stub> There is always the return trip
[08:59] <SteveA> morning
[09:06] <lifeless> stub: maaate
[09:07] <lifeless> stub: are stopovers flexible? like ring up and change ?
[09:07] <stub> Generally, yeah. Just ask whoever you bought your tickets from that you want a few days in Bangkok on the way back. We do it all the time
[09:08] <stub> Or you can do it directly with the airline
[09:08] <stub> Always happy to do it unless the flights are full or you have a weird ticket that won't allow it.
[09:09] <lifeless> righto
[09:09] <lifeless> right now, wanna get packed etc
[09:09] <lifeless> will look into it
[09:23] <carlos> morning
[09:24] <SteveA> hi carlos
[09:24] <SteveA> BjornT_: hi, around?
[09:24] <BjornT_> hi SteveA
[09:24] <SteveA> gary poster is in town
[09:25] <SteveA> we went to trakai on sunday
[09:25] <SteveA> he's working all week at pov.  so, we should meet them for lunch sometime
[09:27] <BjornT_> cool, that'd be great. i don't have any special plans this week, so any day is good for me.
[09:27] <stub> There is a chance I'll be visiting September or October - Kirsten needs to visit Romania and Czechoslovakia around then promoting the book translations so I might tag along for a holiday and pop over and visit and maybe work from Vilnius for a week.
[09:27] <SteveA> sure
[09:28] <SteveA> btw
[09:28] <SteveA> don't say "czechoslovakia"
[09:28] <SteveA> it riles the locals
[09:29] <stub> Heh... we have friends in Belgrade who still insist on using Yugoslavia in their mailing address ;)
[09:29] <SteveA> jamesh, spiv, stub: how about one of those group-skype sessions
[09:29] <stub> I'm never sure what should be used the further east in Europe I go ;)
[09:30] <stub> ok.
[09:34] <spiv> Sure.
[09:34] <SteveA> jamesh: ?
[09:35] <jamesh> SteveA: okay
[11:21] <mdz> how did this morning's rollout go?
[11:23] <stub> No problems of course
[11:24] <SteveA> good morning mdz
[11:24] <mdz> glad to hear it
[11:31] <fabbione> morning guys
[11:31] <fabbione> given that we are now at release
[11:31] <fabbione> what are the odds to get bug #36830 fixed?
[11:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36830 in launchpad-publisher "need Contents files to be generated" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36830
[11:32] <fabbione> you know.. we have tools depending on these files to be updated properly
[11:32] <SteveA> fabbione: that would be a question for malcc, Kinnison and cprov
[11:32] <fabbione> SteveA: well i am asking generally to everybody here...
[11:34] <SteveA> gah... so it isn't a launchpad code thing perhaps
[11:34] <SteveA> but something rather duct-tapey and fragile that only elmo knows about
[11:35] <fabbione> SteveA: it is launchpad since we did switch to soyuz
[11:35] <SteveA> i agree.  i am observing that the solution may involve no additional launchpad code
[11:35] <SteveA> but running existing dak tools in particular ways
[11:36] <SteveA> maybe it is possible to get elmo and malcc in the same room together to work on this?
[11:37] <malcc> SteveA: I'm physically capable of being in the London office today, but I'm not sure they've got any space for me
[11:37] <fabbione> SteveA: dunno.. contents file are part of a release imho. and they haven't been there for months
[11:38] <SteveA> malcc: would you talk with elmo and kiko about this, when they are around?
[11:39] <malcc> SteveA: Yup, willdo
[11:39] <SteveA> and also, please tell fabbione what is talked about
[11:41] <SteveA> i don't really know what a Contents.gz file contains
[11:42] <SteveA> so maybe it would be easier to generate it from the launchpad database than to use the dak tools.
[11:44] <fabbione> SteveA: just check in archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/
[11:44] <fabbione> there are Contents file per archi
[11:45] <fabbione> they show a list of all files contained in the different debs sorted in a special way
[11:45] <SteveA> is there a written specification on these files?
[11:45] <SteveA> or is it just "make it work with the tools"?
[11:46] <Kinnison> fabbione: It needs someone to take the apt.conf, twiddle it to generate the contents files out-of-place run apt-ftparchive and then move them into place once they're done
[11:46] <Kinnison> fabbione: everything needed to do it is there, it just needs someone who knows what they're doing to do it
[11:47] <fabbione> Kinnison: yes, that's written in the bug
[11:47] <Kinnison> fabbione: So you want someone who understands them to be doing this, not j.random lp dev
[11:47] <fabbione> (and i used it for my archives)
[11:47] <fabbione> Kinnison: well elmo and cprov did talk alreayd about it
[11:47] <fabbione> it's waiting implementation
[11:47] <Kinnison> fabbione: I see
[01:51] <carlos> later!
[01:58] <cbx33> can you delete a release series once you have created it?
[02:05] <ddaa> cbx33: no, you cant'
[02:05] <ddaa> but you can rename it
[02:05] <cbx33> ok that makes sense
[02:22] <Yannig> Hello everybody
[02:22] <Yannig> I have a little problem with Occitan translation
[02:22] <Yannig> Do someone know where I can define the order of the items in the date (GNOME clock)?
[02:23] <Yannig> I have dayname-month-daynumber and I should have dayname-daynumber-month
[02:49] <Daemon> I just have a quick question, the debian-installer package (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/) refers to a "Debian Install System Team" as the Maintainer, but this does not seem to be a real group within launchpad, is it referring to an external group or is it because it hasn't been updated?
[02:55] <kiko-zzz> GOOD MORNING PADDERS!
[02:55] <malcc> Mornin kiko
[02:58] <kiko> I am busy deleting emails from dubai and nigeria
[03:02] <Keybuk> Is Assign-To-Nobody broken?
[03:04] <kiko> Keybuk, I saw a bug reported on that last week -- is this via email or via the UI?
[03:04] <Keybuk> UI
[03:08] <bradb> Keybuk: yeah, it's broken. i'm fixing it.
[03:09] <kiko> Keybuk, I believe it works via email, if that helps
[03:09] <kiko> bradb, make sure to pagetest this jimmy ;)
[03:09] <bradb> yeah, with testbrowser, it's actually reasonable to test
[03:09] <kiko> if you need help drive-bying, just let me know.
[03:10] <bradb> thanks
[03:11] <Adri2000> hi
[03:14] <Adri2000> matsubara: it seems you have fixed bug #39547 (fix commited), but it still doesn't work for me, when will the fix be released ?
[03:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39547 in launchpad "Code of Conduct 1.0.1 signatures not accepted" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39547
[03:14] <kiko> Adri2000, probably early next week.
[03:14] <kiko> we are currently on a rollout embargo to avoid disrupting the distribution team.
[03:16] <Adri2000> kiko: ok
[03:17] <Keybuk> kiko: will /people/nobody break anything?
[03:17] <mdz> kiko: what's the syntax for assigning to nobody via email?
[03:18] <kiko> good question
[03:18] <kiko> Keybuk, it's not what you want though.
[03:19] <kiko> BjornT_, do you know the answer to that question?
[03:20] <bradb> From what I can see, it's not possible.
[03:21] <OculusAquilae> kiko: I wanted to ask what to do because of Launchpad-Group kubuntu-de. Its owner and admin isn't active anymore. Could you make somebody (perhaps me) an admin so that other people can join?
[03:21] <bradb> I can it easily enough though.
[03:21] <bradb> fix it, too
[03:21] <kiko> OculusAquilae, sure.
[03:22] <kiko> OculusAquilae, who is the original owner/admin?
[03:22] <bradb> damn, why does there have to be a real person named nobody!
[03:22] <kiko> heh
[03:23] <OculusAquilae> kiko: it's marcelk (author-psi in IRC i think)
[03:23] <bradb> kiko: you won't believe this...
[03:23] <bradb> THERE'S A PERSON CALLED none TOO
[03:25] <bradb> and nil! (not that i would have used that, but...)
[03:27] <SteveA> we can change that
[03:28] <SteveA> and get it added to the list of banned names
[03:28] <SteveA> if someone calls themselves names like "root" or "admin" or "nobody" then they can expect problems
[03:29] <OculusAquilae> kiko: marcelk left us a long time ago and isn't active anymore
[03:30] <kiko> OculusAquilae, I see. okay, give me a few minutes, juggling here.
[03:30] <OculusAquilae> ok
[03:31] <bradb> SteveA: So maybe we should send an email to "nobody" saying he should reregister under a different name within 30 days, because "nobody" will be reserved for system use? And meanwhile, I can implement this email command as though nobody is a reserved word...
[03:32] <SteveA> bradb: that is a good proposal.  please mail it to the launchpad list for further discussion
[03:32] <bradb> ok
[03:33] <kiko> bradb, you could also use a single hyphen or something like that
[03:34] <bradb> kiko: yeah, though i think that's a bit cruel
[03:34] <bradb> the advantage of using "nobody" is that it's consistent with the web UI
[03:35] <kiko> somewhat -- we display a hyphen normally, don't we?
[03:35] <kiko> (except in the radiobuttons)
[03:38] <bradb> for viewing, we display an m-dash on the bug page, yeah. for setting it's "Nobody"
[03:38] <SteveA> either that, or we can assign mister "nobody" lots and lots of bugs
[03:39] <malcc> SteveA++, that'll teach him
[03:39] <kiko> SteveA, for now, people can reassign to kiko-bichodomato anyway
[03:42] <spiv> lifeless: In case you're awake, I've filed https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/47414, which is what stopped my fix for 44183/41414 merging.  I'm working around it so that I can merge, but I thought you'd like to know.
[03:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47414 in bzr "sftp doesn't work on windows" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[03:43] <spiv> lifeless: Er, I mean https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/47494
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47494 in bzr "bzrdir.sprout does not preserve repository format" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[03:43] <spiv> (too many browser tabs open!)
[03:44] <lifeless> spiv: I am, good catch.
[03:44] <lifeless> we should fix that.
[03:45] <spiv> lifeless: Your review asked that I use sprout, I hope you don't mind if I leave that as an XXX for now instead :)
[03:45] <lifeless> sure, thats fine.
[03:45] <lifeless> its a shame, but if its not up to it, its not up to it
[03:48] <lifeless> gnight
[03:48] <ddaa> hey spiv, nice patch you just submitted :)
[03:48] <lifeless> sabdfl: see you tomorrow
[03:48] <lifeless> erm, thursday. day after tomorrow.
[03:49] <spiv> lifeless: g'night.  Have a good flight tomorrow!
[03:49] <lifeless> thanks
[03:49] <ddaa> lifeless: where are you flying to this time?
[03:49] <spiv> ddaa: :)
[03:50] <spiv> ddaa: Hmm, no luck on the cscvs front?
[03:50] <ddaa> spiv: the current pqm patch is dummy cscvs change, to confirm that merging is still broken and it's not just my changes
[03:50] <ddaa> no luck so far
[03:50] <ddaa> it's definitely critical now, as all my outstanding branches are blocked on that
[03:51] <spiv> The cscvs tests pass in PQM when run as part of launchpad's check_merge.
[03:51] <spiv> So it's possibly a PQM misconfiguration with how it runs tests for cscvs merges?
[03:51] <ddaa> Maybe the problem is something in the pqm config, I do not know.
[03:51] <spiv> Or maybe the cscvs makefile isn't setting paths right.
[03:51] <ddaa> spiv: not a problem with the cscvs makefile
[03:52] <ddaa> the failure happens in the bzr tests
[03:52] <lifeless> [/home/pqm/archives/rocketfuel/cscvs/1.0/devel]
[03:52] <lifeless> precommit_hook=make -C .. check
[03:52] <lifeless> build_config=/home/pqm/archives/rocketfuel/dists/devel/configs/canonical.com/launchpad/development
[03:52] <ddaa> when doing the baz-import tests
[03:52] <lifeless> that is, commits to cscvs run 'make check' in sourcecode.
[03:52] <lifeless> actually, now that you've unfucked things, we should make this run check_merge again.
[03:52] <lifeless> done
[03:53] <spiv> lifeless: woo!
[03:53] <lifeless> (as of the next time pqm reads its config file)
[03:53] <lifeless> I've added a todo to do the same for buildbot etc
[03:53] <lifeless> note that this is not the cause of the fault
[03:53] <ddaa> okay, the dummy merge just failed
[03:53] <spiv> lifeless: No, but it's nice anyway :)
[03:53] <lifeless> because spiv was committing to other sourcecode trees, and they have the same config
[03:53] <lifeless> so they were all running 'make check' in sourcecode.
[03:54] <ddaa> same problem, failures in baz-import tests
[03:54] <spiv> That config looks sane to me.
[03:54] <lifeless> its now
[03:54] <lifeless> precommit_hook=make -C ../.. check_merge
[03:54] <lifeless> tchau
[03:56] <spiv> ddaa: The weird thing about the error is that it seems to find the pybaz module, but can't find symbols in it.  Wrong version of pybaz somehow, due to a PYTHONPATH problem?
[03:56] <spiv> I don't know why it didn't affect my merges to e.g. buildbot, though.
[03:57] <ddaa> spiv: might be
[03:57] <ddaa> the first error looks like something that would be caused by using a really old pybaz
[03:58] <ddaa> then maybe all the other strange errors are fallout from that one
[03:58] <ddaa> anyway, cscvs tests _must_ run the launchpad tests
[03:59] <ddaa> as importd is part of launchpad and depends on cscvs
[04:01] <spiv> Yeah, it's good that cscvs merges will run a full check_merge now.
[04:02] <ddaa> well, the same holds for bzr, bzrtools, pybaz and probably a number of other things
[04:03] <spiv> Right.
[04:07] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[04:08] <ddaa> he's an ex-lifeless
[04:10] <SteveA> rocketfuel-built does not have the correct sqlobject tree
[04:10] <SteveA> although it seems stu has fixed it
[04:22] <sabdfl> lifeless: safe travels
[04:32] <carlos> BjornT: hi, around?
[04:34] <kiko> bradb, I think I'd accept both "nobody" and "-" then.
[04:34] <bradb> kiko: yeah, that'd be useful too
[04:37] <kiko> cool.
[04:38] <BjornT> hi carlos
[04:39] <carlos> BjornT: I'm having problems with pagetests and textareas
[04:39] <carlos> BjornT: the new system introduces an extra '\n' char at the beginning of the string when we read what we are rendering from the database
[04:40] <SteveA> bradb: what about — ?
[04:40] <carlos> BjornT: for instance
[04:40] <bradb> SteveA: heh
[04:40] <kiko> SteveA, in the email UI? I think that's silly
[04:40] <carlos> I get this with Firefox: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileAQj5o9.html
[04:40] <SteveA> there are all sorts of people who write html mail now ;-)
[04:41] <carlos> BjornT: but I get https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileJcBBrF.html from pagetests
[04:44] <BjornT> carlos: hmm, i don't know why that is happening, i'll have to look into it a bit closer. i don't have time to do it now, though. it'd be good if you could file a bug about it, including a test snippet showing the problem.
[04:44] <carlos> BjornT: ok, thanks
[04:45] <carlos> I will remove the content to have that test working (I don't mind its content, but it's breaking it)
[04:55] <SteveA> spiv: it landed!
[04:55] <spiv> Yes!
[05:00] <highvoltage> hi. any launchpad admins around?
[05:02] <kiko> yes!
[05:02] <kiko> OculusAquilae, ping?
[05:03] <carlos> BjornT: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/47511
[05:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47511 in launchpad "pagetests add ghost new lines to textareas" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[05:03] <OculusAquilae> kiko: pong
[05:03] <highvoltage> kiko: can you please delete https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook ?
[05:03] <highvoltage> kiko: the original owners of that aren't around anymore, and the new cookbook team wants to start from scratch with that product
[05:04] <OculusAquilae> kiko: what do you need?
[05:06] <kiko> OculusAquilae, I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-de but I can't see anybody there.
[05:07] <kiko> highvoltage, renamed to edubuntu.cookbook-deleteme and deactivated.
[05:07] <OculusAquilae> kiko: I can see me and Marcus as members
[05:07] <highvoltage> kiko: thank you very much!
[05:08] <kiko> OculusAquilae, what confuses me is that you referred to him as marcelk before
[05:09] <OculusAquilae> kiko: that's the teamowner MarcelKaeming
[05:09] <kiko> oh
[05:09] <OculusAquilae> kiko: marcelk because of the page https://launchpad.net/people/marcelk
[05:09] <kiko> your team has no admin?
[05:09] <OculusAquilae> right
[05:09] <kiko> I see
[05:10] <kiko> OculusAquilae, done.
[05:10] <OculusAquilae> kiko: thanks
[05:10] <kiko> highvoltage, you can register a new edubuntu.cookbook if you like now
[05:10] <highvoltage> kiko: thanks, i've passed the info on to the new maintainer
[05:16] <Claudeir> opa
[05:16] <Claudeir> alguem do Brasil?
[05:17] <kiko> samaniego, english please
[05:17] <kiko> (or #ubuntu-br)
[05:19] <samaniego> ok
[05:21] <samaniego> i dont speak english, but I speak portuguese, spanish, guarani, portuol, gauchs, cears, and others brazilian languages. sorry!!!
[05:50] <bradb> ddaa: It seems to me that the register_branch xmlrpc API allows the registrant to make that branch owned by anyone in the system, right?
[05:51] <ddaa> in theory no
[05:51] <ddaa> I practice, I would have to read the code
[05:51] <ddaa> in theory one can only make a branch owned by the authenticated user or a team it belongs to
[05:52] <bradb> ah, right, i meant it can make anyone the /author/ of that branch
[05:52] <ddaa> oh yes
[05:53] <ddaa> just like the web UI allows that
[05:53] <ddaa> it's a feature to allow registering a branch on behalf of someone else
[05:53] <bradb> got it, thanks
[05:53] <ddaa> and at least one user wants to keep that feature :)
[05:54] <ddaa> (I wanted to remove that, but somebody explained to me he had a practical use of that feature)
[05:59] <bradb> ddaa: What do you suggest for testing an xmlrpc api? (Beyond the plain view tests.)
[05:59] <ddaa> bradb: did you read the discussion I had with mpool on the launchpad@ mailing list?
[06:00] <bradb> yeah. i don't recall that mentioning specifics of how to do client testing. i know i can just write code, but i'm wondering if there's a simpler option.
[06:02] <ddaa> which category of test are you thinking of: strict server-side, or client-server integration?
[06:04] <bradb> ddaa: i want to have a full client test suite implementation. ideally something that smells like a doctest, so that it takes less work to make it human-readable.
[06:05] <ddaa> When doing client-server integration, you would need to: setup the xmlrpc server (the test runner should do that), call the bzrlib API (the same that would be called by the CLI), and check that results are correct.
[06:05] <bradb> this is for Malone, not bzr, btw
[06:05] <ddaa> about doctests, our quality czar do not like doctests very much, he thinks they tend to lead to inadequate test coverage.
[06:06] <bradb> and the test runner does not setup the xmlrpc server correctly, aiui. SteveA knows more about how we were going to set up our test suite to handle xmlrpc tests.
[06:07] <ddaa> I think that until that's fixed, you are a bit stuck to do client-server integration
[06:07] <SteveA> bradb: the test runner doesn't set up any servers
[06:07] <bradb> ddaa: when you wrote the branch stuff though, did you do any actual xmlrpc testing of it, or just ask the bzr guys if it actually worked when it was deployed?
[06:07] <SteveA> it doesn't dispatch the way needed for xmlrpc
[06:07] <ddaa> bradb: you're giving me way too much credit
[06:08] <bradb> or plan c, waited to see if they screamed :P
[06:08] <SteveA> anyway, for testing the xmlrpc API
[06:08] <SteveA> we shall do doctests of the API
[06:08] <ddaa> I just asked mpool to get the feature out, let him and SteveA talk about test coverage issues
[06:08] <SteveA> showing calls to it, and with explanations of what the calls mean in the documentation
[06:08] <SteveA> if anything requires doctests, a public API does
[06:09] <SteveA> writing code is about communication, so i think doctests are a very fine way to start
[06:09] <ddaa> bradb: my schedule does not have room for going out of my way to check what other people are doing. I just ask for the stuff I need, and the stuff we can easily do that I think sabfl wants soon.
[06:10] <bradb> SteveA: yeah. what would be really useful to developers is if i could write python code to show how to script xmlrpc in python. that way even if they don't know how to do it, they need only read that doc and be on their way. right now, i have only a view doctest.
[06:10] <ddaa> I leave it to SteveA and the reviewers to make sure that other people do their homework properly.
[06:10] <SteveA> bradb: that's an interesting idea
[06:10] <bradb> (of course, if they don't use python, oh well)
[06:11] <SteveA> bradb: i think it would require an alternative Server implementation
[06:11] <SteveA> bradb: so, you'd have testxmlrpc.Server('whatever')
[06:11] <SteveA> and this would be a natural way to test it
[06:11] <SteveA> we could do that today, actually
[06:11] <SteveA> BjornT: what do you think of this?
[06:11] <SteveA> brad's had a cool idea
[06:20] <BjornT> what exactly are you proposing? would testxmlrpc.Server('whatever') use a special Transport to talk with the XMLRPC publisher?
[06:22] <SteveA> perhaps.
[06:22] <SteveA> testxmlrpc.Server would just work like xmlrpc.Server
[06:22] <SteveA> but run in process to our functional tests
[06:23] <bradb> BjornT: my goal, fwiw, is to write a human-readable doc containing xmlrpc client code that shows people how to talk to Malone via xmlrpc, so that even if the user doesn't know xmlrpc in python, this doc should be pretty much all they need.
[06:25] <SteveA> bradb: could be that a script testing against staging would be better
[06:25] <bradb> perhaps, yeah
[06:26] <BjornT> then it's probably best using xmlrpclib.ServerProxy and use a TestTransport or something like that. that would make it quite clear what's specific for the test.
[06:26] <bradb> i imagine i would test it on a local server, but then the public doc could use a staging url
[06:45] <mdz> bradb: why does malone still say that there's no security contact for Ubuntu packages, when there is ubuntu-security (and it's subscribed to security bugs)?
[06:54] <kiko> samaniego, portuol, heh :)
[06:54] <kiko> SteveA!
[06:54] <kiko> I am your man
[06:55] <kiko> mdz, I think the reason is that there is no package-specific security contact. the UI could be clarified I guess
[06:57] <mdz> kiko: package-specific security contacts are overkill
[06:57] <mdz> I do not see them being used in a distro ever
[06:58] <SteveA> a whui
[06:58] <kiko> mdz, okay, maybe I am confused. where do you see security contacts?
[07:46] <bradb> Malone doesn't have package security contacts.
[07:46] <bradb> Ubuntu has a security contact, as shown at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
[07:46] <kiko> so I am confused as well
[07:47] <bradb> mdz: where are you saying that Malone says there's no security contact?
[07:48] <mdz> kiko: +filebug
[07:48] <mdz>  There is no  security contact for ubiquity in ubuntu   so no security contact will be subscribed to this bug.
[07:48] <kiko> on in the package +filebug page?
[07:48] <mdz> correct
[07:48] <mdz> it is both a) a lie, and b) implies the existence of per-package security contacts
[07:48] <kiko>  bradb
[07:49] <bradb> ok, that'd be a bug
[07:49] <kiko> bradb, should be easy to pagetest too
[07:49] <bradb> yer
[07:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47544 in malone "Malone reports that a package has no security contact...DUH!" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47544
[08:03] <mdke> elmo: off for dinner now, if you email me I will get back to you double-quick
[08:31] <Bluekuja> matsubara: ping
[08:32] <delta> Hi.
[08:32] <matsubara> Bluekuja: pong
[08:33] <Bluekuja> matsubara: i received the mail for +priority bug
[08:33] <Bluekuja> but i still get the error
[08:33] <Bluekuja> I can't access that logged in as user
[08:33] <matsubara> Bluekuja: the bug isn't fixed yet. I was asking what should be done for the +priority page
[08:34] <delta> I'm having trouble with frequencies under the nvidia driver 87.62.
[08:34] <delta> What could I do?
[08:34] <Bluekuja> matsubara: oh okie, i thought there were news
[08:34] <Bluekuja> matsubara: sorry then
[08:35] <matsubara> delta: #ubuntu might be a better place to ask
[08:35] <matsubara> Bluekuja: np
[08:36] <delta> matsubara: ah.
[09:42] <Lord_Athur> hi all
[09:43] <Lord_Athur>  I need some cds, for me and for a lot of friends who want to use drapper, so I made requests two for some cds with different accounts, is that cheating?
[09:45] <ddaa> GRAAAAH!
[09:46] <ddaa> PQM SHIT FUCK ME
[09:46] <Lord_Athur> im spanish and i don't understand you ddaa
[09:46] <ddaa> test suite for my merge has been running for 6 hours
[09:46] <Lord_Athur> sorry
[09:47] <ddaa> Lord_Athur: sorry, not addressed to you personally
[09:47] <ddaa> Lord_Athur: I think technically that's cheating, but I guess there might be checks for that, on the postal adress
[09:47] <ddaa> Lord_Athur: in any case, you can request the amount you need in a single request, as long as it's a reasonable amount
[09:48] <Lord_Athur> oka
[09:48] <Lord_Athur> can launchpad cancel my requests?
[09:48] <ddaa> no idea, really
[09:48] <ddaa> kiko: shipit question, can you handle?
[09:49] <ddaa> Znarl: can you unstuck PQM please?
[09:51] <Lord_Athur> i's the launchpad channel, nobody knows?
[09:52] <Lord_Athur> *it's
[09:52] <ddaa> somebody knows for sure, that does not mean that person is awake or available for chat
[09:52] <Lord_Athur> you're right
[09:52] <Lord_Athur> :)
[09:52] <ddaa> your safest option is to post a support request
[09:54] <ddaa> kiko: if you want your merges to ever go in, you'll need to get someone to kick pqm's balls
[09:55] <elmo> ddaa: done
[09:57] <ddaa> elmo: what you did does not appear to have had any effect
[09:58] <ddaa> pqm still reports the same status
[09:59] <ddaa> well, I do not care, somebody will surely complain about it eventually
[10:02] <carlos> Lord_Athur: if you read the documentation at shipit.ubuntu.com, you would see a link to the FAQ page (http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq#head-7eef2db63e0a75424cdd663ee6f7b8eedcf19607)
[10:02] <carlos> Lord_Athur: there you have an email address to send any issue you have with shipit
[10:03] <carlos> Lord_Athur<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:03] <carlos> send there your issue and it will be addressed
[10:03] <carlos> I don't think you can cancel your order
[10:04] <Lord_Athur> oka
[10:04] <Lord_Athur> thanks
[10:04] <carlos> Lord_Athur: if you need a lot of CDs, you should contact with the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>address
[10:05] <elmo> ddaa: it seems to be doing something else now at least
[10:06] <Lord_Athur> thanks
[10:08] <mdke> elmo: were you looking for me earlier?
[10:51] <clahey> Hi, I work on Democracy Player and I'm investigating translation tools.
[10:53] <clahey> I'm looking at Rosetta now.
[10:53] <clahey> It looks like a decent interface.
[10:53] <clahey> Does "Someone should review this translation" correspond to fuzzy translations?
[10:54] <lifeless> IIRC, yes.
[10:54] <clahey> If our project were to be translated on the Rosetta site, what is the procedure for getting new po files from our svn and committing changed po files to our svn?
[10:55] <lifeless> you can get a tarball containing all the po files
[10:55] <lifeless> so you just extract that in your source, add any new ones to svn, and commit
[10:55] <lifeless> you upload the pot file to rosetta using a web form
[10:56] <lifeless> I think the same goes for uploading fresh po files.
[10:57] <clahey> Ah, it can't pull from our svn and commit itself?
[10:57] <lifeless> at this point no. We have plans to do something along those lines though.
[10:57] <clahey> We're looking for the minimum amount of manual intervention for those sorts of things.
[10:58] <lifeless> well, having svn access raises a lot of security concerns. That one reason we have not got this done yet.
[10:58] <clahey> Yeah.  Makes sense.
[11:50] <Keybuk> lifeless: why does bzr always say "0 revisions pushed" when it creates a new archive?
[11:51] <LarstiQ> Keybuk: I believe that has been fixed in bzr.dev recently
[11:51] <LarstiQ> by lifeless even
[11:59] <lifeless> Keybuk: its a bug in 0.8
[11:59] <Keybuk> ok
[12:01] <kiko> clahey, hey there! good to see you around
[12:01] <kiko> clahey, so you're looking to use Rosetta?
[12:02] <clahey> kiko: Looking at it.
[12:02] <clahey> The lack of automation might be a showstopper.
[12:02] <kiko> clahey, well, you /can/ automate the process somewhat
[12:02] <kiko> what part of the automation are you looking for?
[12:03] <clahey> Well, I'm specifically worried about what happens if there are translations from Rosetta and also someone commits to svn.
[12:03] <kiko> you get both files and msgmerge them.
[12:03] <kiko> that's pretty much standard handling, isn't it?
[12:03] <clahey> Also, uploading stuff from svn sounds like a pain and a half.
[12:04] <clahey> So, I like the idea of the web interface just working from po files that are in an svn directory.
[12:04] <clahey> Then, when I run svn update, it'll do svn conflicts.
[12:04] <clahey> I'm just looking into a whole bunch of ideas.
[12:05] <kiko> I see.


[16:22] <Tanvir> Hello Ekushey, good evening. :)
[16:22] <Ekushey> hi
[16:23] <Tanvir> I see CyberKing has quit, so I'm in. That bot was bugging me a lot.
[16:23] <Ekushey> lol
[16:24] <Ekushey> yeah the shell is down
[16:24] <Ekushey> will be up soon
[16:24] <Ekushey> haha
[16:24] <Tanvir> Well, I have to get out of here again I think.
[16:24] <Ekushey> will remove the security module, no problem
[16:24] <Tanvir> Okay. Thanks!
[16:26] <Ekushey> :)


[04:07] <memguy> ok i have installed oss  where alsa has been but i have noticed the only problem i have with it is when i turn the ossxmix up all the way i don't get the  loudness range i did with ALSA. Maybe i am missing some mixer amplifier thing but i don't think so. Anybody know if this is fixable?
[04:17] <RAOF> There's presumably some reason you're using the deprecated-for-nearly-a-decade OSS rather than ALSA?
[04:20] <memguy> I just wanted to try it . Main reason was understanding of LKM loading the correct ones and getting device files working with the drivers... Thats the more general and important question i had figured out. But as a result of figure this all out i now notice only one setting is really noticeable it is the  loudness level just curious what is causing this?
[04:23] <RAOF> I'm honestly surprised you could get it to work at all, and that we're still building it.
[05:25] <memguy> I do have an additional unrelated question. It is  .. is there any program ,command , or  file to look up which device files are associated to which module if any. I know each LKM doesn't necessarily  have a /dev device file as well as each dev file doesn't have to be linked to a driver (could be just user created). But it sure would be nice of a way to list what device files are associated with what LKM
[05:27] <memguy> to know which ones are created by which lkm's. I have a few ways of going about this none of which i like yet
[05:44] <memguy> lsmod simple just opens /proc/modules so nothing revealing that i can uses to leverage how to get the associated device files
[05:44] <memguy> yet
[05:47] <memguy> /proc/devices seem to give mostly all device files names to some extent but there is no good way i can figure out yet on how to linking I am wondering if anybody knows of an ioctl or function one can pass the name of the device file that would tell it what LKM .ko it is registered with
[06:30] <memguy> There are ways like grepping the source for open(/dev/ occurrences in the LKM source code one by one but this isn't really nice or fast way just to find out about an LKM. I purpose that LKM writters embed in the modinfo strings the device files  it creates if any . They all have Author , parameters ,...etc why not include the device files it uses in general
[06:34] <mjg59> The name of the device file is determined by udev, not the driver
[06:34] <mjg59> So the kernel has no idea what htey're called
[06:34] <memguy> wait LKM can create device files
[06:34] <mjg59> They can, but they shouldn't
[06:35] <memguy> why not
[06:35] <mjg59> Because that's up to udev
[06:35] <mjg59> Anyway
[06:35] <mjg59> You can figure it out by looking at the major and minor numbers on the device node
[06:35] <memguy> why do the want to uses udev i mean i get udev is for plug in play kind of detection which loads the LKM needed
[06:36] <mjg59> And then look for the dev file under /sys which has those major and minor numbers in it
[06:36] <memguy> So its like udev creates the device file then loads the LKM for it
[06:36] <mjg59> Then walk from there to the driver
[06:39] <memguy> mjg59 not sure what you mean. I know how to find the device files major and minor number
[06:40] <memguy> but how do you know which device file is associated to which LKM
[06:44] <memguy> are you saying that the sysfs has a way to associate the LKM with a device file because i have a number of way to  figure out a device files major and minor numbers... but no way to know what device files are associated to which LKM if any. There could be one associated to an LKM or several or none. I just don't understand by major and minor number how one can determine what LKM its on
[06:46] <memguy> seems looking up a list of hardware to major and minor numbers is not a good way to do this as ever evolving LKM and device files one would have to have a list for his version he is on
[06:49] <mjg59> There are files in /sys called "dev" which conain a major and minor number pair
[06:49] <mjg59> That will allow you to associate the device node with a sysfs device
[06:49] <mjg59> Then just follow the driver symlink
[14:37] <kamal> dmj_s76, hi -- we've just deployed Xenial 4.4.0-31.50 including the nouveau patch in the -proposed archive -- can we get you to do one more quick smoke test of it for verification?
[15:53] <kamal> dmj_s76, hi -- we've just deployed Xenial 4.4.0-31.50 including the nouveau patch in the -proposed archive -- can we get you to do one more quick smoke test of it for verification?
[15:54] <dmj_s76> kamal: sure...I'll work on that this morning
[15:55] <kamal> dmj_s76, thanks a bunch -- just a sanity check on any one of the GPU's should be sufficient
[17:03] <dmj_s76> kamal: Just tested it...everything works right once the installer pulls in the proposed kernel.  (Still have to do some nasty workarounds to get to the installer, but that should be fixed once the kernel hits the daily iso)
[17:03] <kamal> dmj_s76, excellent, thanks again for all this
[17:04] <dmj_s76> My pleasure, makes the Ubuntu experience better and removes a huge support burden from us.
[17:34] <lamont> does ipv6 autoconf truly not work through a (xenial, 4.4.0-28-generic) bridge?
[17:42] <apw> lamont, are you saying the work around you had no longer works ?
[17:44] <lamont> there wasn't a bridge involved in that...
[17:46] <apw> lamont, there wasn't?  i remember it as bridge related
[17:46] <lamont> this issue is that I boot a vm on a subnet that only has ipv6 (libvirt qemu-kvm), and I see the router solicitation go from the vm to ff02::2 on vnet0, but not on eth0.3 (the other interface in the bridge)
[17:46] <lamont> oh.
[17:47] <lamont> two different problems:
[17:47] <lamont> 1) br0 (eth0.2 and actually nothing else atm), didn't get an ipv6 autoconf on the host, because of multicast_snooping being enabled.
[17:47] <lamont> turns out that (I think), just enabling mutlicast_querier on that bridge is sufficient to get things happier, as a less invasive workaround
[17:48] <lamont> the new issue is on br1 (which I've been poking at for way too long now...)
[17:48] <lamont> current config is identical to br1, only with eth0.3 instead of eth0.2
[17:48] <lamont> and the issue is that the VM doesn't get ipv6 autoconf
[17:49] <lamont> at one point, I had radvd installed on the host, advertising to eth0.3, and it seemed that broke autoconf for br0...  but I didn't fully dive down that rathole.
[17:49] <lamont> so I brought up eth0.3 on the host that has radvd for eth0.2, and...
[17:50] <lamont> the host for the vms now autoconfs on both br0 and br1, and none of the vms do.
[17:51] <lamont> having said that, /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/$IFACE/mc_forwarding would seem to be HIGHLY relevant to my needs, but utterly lacking in documenation as to how to configure it to forward all traffic bound for ff02::/64
[17:51] <lamont> end rant
[17:52] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/19288160/ <-- tcpdump -ni br1 icmp6
[17:52] <lamont> ...:89:57 is hte vm
[17:53] <lamont> and yes, when I actually get this mess working, there's a blog post in it.
[18:06] <lamont>  grep -ve ^# -e ^$ /etc/smcroute/startup.sh
[18:06] <lamont> mgroup from eth0.3 source fe80::1 group ff02::1
[18:06] <lamont> mroute from eth0.3 source fe80::1 group ff02::1 br1
[18:06] <lamont> it hurts, but it configures ipv6 on the guests
[18:11] <memguy> does any body know what the equivalent of configfs is in new linux is this info found somewhere in /sys sysfs?
[18:12] <apw> lamont, hrm
[18:14] <lamont> apw: which gets me to the next issue, where I see ipxe on the vm poke ff02::16 a couple times, and then fail over to ipv4 boot
[18:16] <lamont> hitting ctl-b for the ipxe command line doesn't help either
[18:17] <lamont> something tells me it may be time to bring in another box and see how it does booting with something like a real firmware interface
[18:20] <lamont> apw: mind you, that's still totally ignoring the router solicitations
[18:21] <lamont> ultimately, I suspect that I need dhcp6 queries from ipxe
[20:56] <bbuccianti> Hi!
[20:56] <bbuccianti> i don't want to interrupt anything
[20:56] <bbuccianti> but i have a problem and i can't resolve alone
[20:57] <bbuccianti> my kernel is booting to slow, or i think so
[20:57] <bbuccianti> look at my systemd-analyze
[20:57] <bbuccianti> systemd-analyze
[20:57] <bbuccianti> Startup finished in 16.145s (kernel) + 7.476s (userspace) = 23.622s
[21:07] <apw> bbuccianti, that does seem quite high, though not world ending
[21:09] <bbuccianti> i agree with you
[21:09] <bbuccianti> but i want to learn
[21:09] <bbuccianti> and reduce boot time
[21:09] <bbuccianti> can you give me some resources?
[22:34] <memguy> i got a question on vdso how does this actually speed up syscalls . I know it maps a page for each program with the vdso.so lib but doesn't each still at the lowest level have to call sysenter/exit or int instructions? Or is it speeding it up by remapping a complete syscall handler function into vdso.so userspace page?