[00:01] <toresbe> anyone else having problems with proprietary nVidia on Hardy?
[00:02] <nblracer> hey is hardy 5 out?
[00:03] <toresbe> It simply seems to not work
[00:03] <nblracer> ?
[00:03] <toresbe> the X.org logs are just ...business as usual, then "couldn't init card" or something like that
[00:04] <cwillu> toresbe, I'm running it fine, didn't do anything special
[00:04] <cwillu> toresbe, upgrade or fresh install?
[00:06] <toresbe> cwillu: upgrade
[00:06] <toresbe> it simply goes
[00:06] <cwillu> how did you have the nvidia driver installed before?
[00:06] <toresbe> (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!
[00:06] <cwillu> just through the restricted manager, or did you have to do anything more?
[00:06] <toresbe> cwillu: restricted, I think.
[00:07] <cwillu> try dpkg-reconfigure'ing x, set it to vesa, and then run the restricted drivers manager again from inside x
[00:07] <toresbe> OK
[00:09] <toresbe> nope
[00:09] <toresbe> won't work
[00:09] <toresbe> (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!
[00:10] <toresbe> oh wait, found the problem
[00:10] <toresbe> I'm running an older kernel.
[00:10] <toresbe> but I'm doing that because the newer one won't boot :(
[00:10] <cwillu> what happens that it won't boot?
[00:10] <toresbe> Waiting for root FS...
[00:11]  * cwillu feels like elisa some days
[00:11] <toresbe> something to that effect. Won't go past that.
[00:11] <cwillu> toresbe, what does you fstab look like?
[00:11] <toresbe> Why do you say that you feel like elisa some days?
[00:11] <cwillu> :p
[00:11] <cwillu> pastebin your fstab and your /boot/grub/menu.lst
[00:11] <toresbe> an UUID in the fstab
[00:11] <cwillu> what kernel version are you running?
[00:11] <toresbe> 2.6.22-14-generic
[00:12] <cwillu> ext3?
[00:12] <toresbe> yes
[00:12] <toresbe> brb, rebooting with fstab saying /dev/sda1
[00:12] <cwillu> okay, sounds like grub isn't giving the kernel an accurate idea of what partition it's supposed to use (fstab line doesn't actually affect that)
[00:18] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/190934
[00:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[00:27] <ax1s> hey .. is css broken in hardy?
[00:28] <ax1s> my dvd playback quits
[00:28] <ax1s> or certain dvds
[00:38] <toresbe> cwillu: got it debugged.
[00:38] <toresbe> cwillu: the right modules simply aren't loaded at boot time.
[00:38] <toresbe> cwillu: after a while, /scripts/local give up and drop me to an initramfs shell. When I modprobe sd_mod and sata_nv and ^D, the system boots.
[00:39] <cwillu> weird
[00:39] <cwillu> might want to report it on launchpad
[00:41] <toresbe> *sigh*
[00:41] <toresbe> :)
[00:41] <toresbe> thanks.
[00:42] <toresbe> Also, the fscking index thing is annoying, too.
[00:42] <toresbe> what would I be filing a bug against? The kernel image?
[00:48] <cwillu> toresbe, either that or grub I'd think;  they'll change the affected packages if they need to
[00:51] <toresbe> cwillu: I'm submitting it against the kernel, since it's the kernel that's failing to load the module.
[00:52] <toresbe> Terrasqu1: o/
[00:52] <cwillu> toresbe, there's supposed to be some love going towards the fsck problem
[00:53] <cwillu> toresbe, btw, don't use the fsck-on-shutdown hack from ubuntuforums, it's got some nice root escalation holes in it
[00:53] <toresbe> cwillu: "the fsck problem"?
[00:53] <toresbe> cwillu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/194196
[00:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194196 in linux "Fails to insert nVidia SATA disk modules on boot causing boot fail" [Undecided,New]
[00:54] <cwillu> thought you were talking about the occasional long delay in booting due to fsck
[00:54] <toresbe> oh, heh. No. I meant "fscking" as a slightly geekier way of saying "fucking".
[00:55] <toresbe> :)
[00:55] <cwillu> :p
[00:55] <toresbe> The blinking exclamaation point in the top is annoyingly distracting.
[00:55] <cwillu> might not be the best choice of euphemism on a linux support channel :p
[00:55] <toresbe> cwillu: where else would it be a good choice? :)
[00:57] <cwillu> it'd probably work on #bsd :p
[00:57] <cwillu> actually
[00:57] <cwillu> maybe on osx?
[01:00] <toresbe> ugrgh. That blinking thing is FREAKING ANNOYING.
[01:00]  * toresbe submits another bug. :)
[01:00] <cwillu> which blinking thing?
[01:00] <toresbe> the tracker applet.
[01:00] <cwillu> ah, that
[01:00] <toresbe> libdeskbar-tracker I think
[01:05] <toresbe> oh it was actually having problems, and blinking for a reason
[01:05] <toresbe> it barfed on seeing the file "xmp:-"
[01:05] <toresbe> in my $HOME
[01:07] <sweetsinse> whats up with alpha 5 why the link 404
[01:08] <toresbe> this is STRANGE.
[01:09] <sweetsinse> where is alpha 5 release
[01:11] <toresbe> file changes to /home/toresbe/xmp:- is pausing tracker
[01:11] <toresbe> File /home/toresbe/xmp:- has finished changing
[01:29]  * heret1c yawns
[01:30] <heret1c> sheesh - 7 hr siesta 8)
[01:31] <heret1c> drwillis> how goes?
[01:32] <Dr_willis> Hmm?
[01:32] <Dr_willis> I work 3rd shift.
[01:32] <heret1c> oh.
[01:33] <heret1c> no rest for the wicked, eh?
[01:33] <heret1c> not even the extremely wicked. 8)
[01:34] <heret1c> drwillis> assid runs ide drives with no problems. showed some rather impressive -Tt results.
[01:35]  * heret1c wondrs if it's down to the chipset, ir what. lspci|grep ata
[01:36] <Dr_willis> Given what ive read about the various ide problems over the years - its often an issue with the mb's ide chipset.
[01:36] <heret1c> : nods
[01:36] <Dr_willis> fixing a lot of these issues is one of the reasons for the rework of  ata  stuff in the kernel.
[01:39] <heret1c> Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Controller (rev 02)
[01:39] <heret1c> bog standard, afaik.
[01:40] <toresbe> hehe, I found the problem.
[01:40] <toresbe> Hehe. This is a fun bug in Ubuntu tracker/imagemagick.
[01:40] <toresbe> (imagemagick/convert is an image processing utility, tracker is a file alteration monitor (like spotlight and whatever the vista knockoff is called))
[01:40] <toresbe> So - picture this... tracker is searching along, and encounters a graphics file. It wants to thumbnail it, so it passes it along to convert. Convert creates a temporary file. Tracker notices that a file has been created. It notices it's an image file, so it wants to thumbnail it. It calls convert.
[01:41] <Dr_willis> One of the many reasons i always disable those tracker/indexing services
[01:41] <Dr_willis> I dont seem to have an issue keeping my stuff organized. :)
[01:44] <sweetsinse> whats up with alpha 5 why the link 404
[01:45] <Dr_willis> perhaps its not done yet?  its waiting to get uploaded.
[01:45] <nblracer> i herd it was held back until tomorrow
[01:45] <nblracer> i dont know why though
[01:46] <Dr_willis> means there will be 1000 updates tomorow? :)
[01:47] <heret1c> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[01:49] <paulr> bah
[01:51] <Dr_willis> egads.. wubi is going to be on the cd....
[01:51]  * Dr_willis hides
[01:52] <heret1c> they are a bit early with the advertising/late with the release.
[01:54] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/190934
[01:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[01:54]  * DanaG wants the non-loop-but-still-starts-from-windows installer, instlux.
[01:54] <Mark_Milliman> If we are on alpha 4 will we automatically see alpha 5 through upgrade-manager or do we have to run it with "-d?"
[01:56] <cwillu> Mark_Milliman, updates will bring you to alpha5 (the alphas are just particular package versions)
[01:57] <Mark_Milliman> Thanks cwillu, I have always stayed with the released versions.  This is the first time I have jumped on the bleeding edge of Ubuntu releases.
[01:58] <Mark_Milliman> I saw that it would solve some of the problems I was having with Gutsy
[02:00] <Mark_Milliman> I never noticed until now that there is not an option in Nautilus to restore from Trash!!!
[02:01] <Dr_willis> Mark_Milliman,  heh - i noticed yesterday that  You have to Shift-Delete to delete somthing, not move it to trash.
[02:01] <Dr_willis> My Thumbdrive was all full.. and it was empty! :0
[02:01] <DanaG> Try deleting stuff from trash.... it replicates!
[02:01] <Dr_willis> i wonder if there will be some updates/fix's to that  - annoyance.
[02:01] <Dr_willis> DanaG,  :)
[02:02] <Mark_Milliman> Hopefully GVFS will fix all of that in Alpha 5
[02:02] <RAOF> DanaG: Re bug 190934.  I contend that you're seeing a bug in compiz, since I find it trivial to reproduce this under compiz but can't reproduce under metacity at all.
[02:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190934
[02:03] <DanaG> But even after I kill compiz, it's still just as broken.
[02:04] <RAOF> True.
[02:04] <DanaG> And nothing should be able to make xev get the terminate_server keycode.
[02:07] <RAOF> I'm also not sure you're seeing the same bug; killing X fixes our bug, but the original poster seems to need to do other stuff.
[02:08] <RAOF> Anyway, I'll file a bug against compiz, and suggest that it's a likely dup of that bug.
[02:08] <RAOF> Damn.  I've broken Do by reproducing the bug :/
[02:09] <DanaG> Do?
[02:09] <RAOF> !info gnome-do
[02:09] <ubotu> gnome-do (source: gnome-do): Quickly perform actions on your desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 50 kB, installed size 216 kB
[02:10] <RAOF> Kinda like gnome-launch-box and deskbar, but somewhat more direct/cooler.
[02:18] <DanaG> What's the hotkey?
[02:25] <RAOF> DanaG: Super-space.  Yes, it would be nice to make that more obvious.
[02:25] <DanaG> Aah, I have deskbar assigned to that, for now.
[02:26] <DanaG> Aah, changed it.
[02:26] <RAOF> DanaG: I hope you have got the gnome-do-plugins (and especially gnome-do-plugin-rhythmbox) package installed.  Do is now my primary interface to Rhythmbox.
[02:26] <DanaG> I use Exaile.
[02:26] <DanaG> Media keys are broken in Exaile.  Argh.
[02:27] <RAOF> And banshee, too.  Gnome-settings-daemon has changed the
[02:27] <RAOF> API again :)
[02:32] <heret1c> ouch.
[02:33] <Nubbie> is hardy alpha 5 live yet?
[02:34] <heret1c> nope.
[02:35] <Nubbie> damn.
[02:35] <Nubbie> lol.
[02:37] <Nubbie> i had a chance to test pulse audio before, and i'm very glad ubuntu has decided to include it ENABLED by default.
[02:38] <Nubbie> it's been long over due, imo.
[02:39] <sweetsinse> yeah ive been waiting all day for that alpha 5
[02:39] <sweetsinse> i gpt excited when the wiki was onine
[02:39] <DanaG> They need to install libasound2-plugins by default, too.
[02:39] <sweetsinse> whats that
[02:39] <DanaG> !alpha5
[02:39] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:40] <DanaG> libasound2-plugins has the alsa-to-pulse wrapper.
[02:42] <Nubbie> !alpha
[02:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:42] <Nubbie> :|
[02:42] <Nubbie> ubotu, you're fired.
[02:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about you're fired. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:42] <Nubbie> damn artificial intelligence. this machine doesn't know when to stop talking back.
[02:43] <heret1c> ubotu anything
[02:43] <ubotu> So, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.
[02:43] <underwatercow> anyone hear if Alpha 5 is on schedule?
[02:43] <heret1c> 8)
[02:44] <Mark_Milliman> sounds like it is a little late
[02:44] <Mark_Milliman> the links to the ISO images are 404
[02:44] <underwatercow> Mark_Milliman: So is it looking like tomorrow then? :-p
[02:44] <Nubbie> there's still more than 5 hours left in this day in North America. it isn't late yet.
[02:45] <underwatercow> Nubbie: Hello again, lol... and I know... I'm just impatient... when they say the 21st... I want it at midnight. ;-D
[02:45] <Nubbie> don't we all. but then it would be a day early on the other side of the globe now wouldn't it :)
[02:45] <underwatercow> Nubbie: Who cares about them?
[02:45] <underwatercow> ;-D
[02:47] <underwatercow> anyone know what time the debates are on?
[02:47] <underwatercow> :-D
[02:48] <Nubbie> ubuntu > politics.
[02:48] <underwatercow> lol
[02:57] <sweetsinse> yeah i hope i can start the DL for alpha 5 before i go to bed at least
[02:57] <Nubbie> i'm going to seed it all night.
[02:57] <Nubbie> spread that ubuntu love.
[02:59] <nblracer> :P
[03:00] <Nubbie> spread it all over.
[03:00] <Nubbie> :|
[03:01] <nblracer> im new to alpha for ubuntu, are updates pushed out for pre-rlease?
[03:01] <nblracer> or do they need to be manualy installed?
[03:02] <Nubbie> nblracer: updates are handled through official repositories.
[03:03] <Nubbie> nblracer: official hardy (ALPHA!!!) repositories.
[03:07] <Nubbie> mark shuttleworth should go to space again.
[03:08] <underwatercow> we still need to get that number 1 bug fixed Nubbie...
[03:08] <underwatercow> :-D
[03:10] <underwatercow> how do you check bugs anyway?
[03:10] <underwatercow> ubotu 1
[03:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[03:10] <underwatercow> ubotu bug 1
[03:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[03:10] <ubotu> For discussion and help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubotu equivalents
[03:10] <underwatercow> excellent
[03:12] <Nubbie> :l
[03:12] <Nubbie> i think it's a good thing microsoft has a massive market share.
[03:12] <Nubbie> and here's why.
[03:12] <Nubbie> forces more innovation from the unix side.
[03:13] <DanaG> One good thing about Vista: it forces manufacturers to implement better ACPI controllers.
[03:13] <Nubbie> another good thing about vista: the market is now open for solid state disks.
[03:13] <Nubbie> what the hell do they call that thing...
[03:14] <sweetsinse> solid state is interesting
[03:14] <sweetsinse> ive been watching that for a few years now.. i remeber reading about a 'cube' that could hold 100's of gigs haha
[03:14] <Nubbie> sweetsinse: i saw a person at school with one of those eeepcs.. made me consider a solid state disk.
[03:14] <sweetsinse> same with macbook air
[03:14] <Nubbie> macbook air will be a paperweight.
[03:15] <Nubbie> i can see it now... cracked screens... bent hinges... overheating...
[03:16] <Nubbie> that and the battery is now screwed to the motherboard, the hard drive is buried, afaik there is no way to upgrade memory...
[03:17] <sweetsinse> still
[03:17] <sweetsinse> ...sw33t
[03:17] <Nubbie> nah.
[03:18] <Nubbie> i considered a macbook, mainly for the opportunity to triple boot... but i realized i'd just be running linux 100% of the time anyways.
[03:18] <Nubbie> and for the money, there is far better hardware on which to run linux.
[03:19] <DanaG> If I wanted something light, I'd get an HP tablet, or something.
[03:19] <Nubbie> i don't understand how 4lbs is "heavy"
[03:19] <Nubbie> get a REGULAR laptop.
[03:20] <Nubbie> especially if you just want to run linux.
[03:20] <DanaG> My current notebook is 7.5 pounds.
[03:20] <DanaG> The next one I'm considering is 5.9.
[03:20] <Nubbie> if you actually have a vested requirement of OSX, then maybe it's viable. even then, why not get a regular macbook.
[03:21] <sweetsinse> i dont need osx, i dont even know how to get linux on the damn thing since it has no traditional bios..  i just thought the air was nice, and i didnt know of another solid state pc
[03:22] <DanaG> Other companies offer SSDs, too..
[03:22] <Nubbie> you can put a solid state disk in ANY computer.
[03:22] <Nubbie> just order a computer sans hard drive and install it yourself.
[03:22] <sweetsinse> interesting what the max capacity right now
[03:23] <cwillu> sweetsinse, eeepc is solid state
[03:24] <Nubbie> the macbook air isn't even solid state.
[03:24] <Nubbie> it uses a 1.8" hard drive.
[03:24] <RAOF> The solid state one is :)
[03:24] <Nubbie> the same one they put in the ipod.
[03:24] <Nubbie> oh i didn't realize they had a solid state option...
[03:24]  * Nubbie investigates
[03:25] <sweetsinse> hmm
[03:25] <sweetsinse> rally
[03:25] <uniscript> it costs the earth though, $1k for the drive IIRC
[03:25] <RAOF> Nubbie: I believe it's a USD1000 option, bug you also gain some CPU speed, too.
[03:25] <sweetsinse> dman
[03:25] <sweetsinse> damn
[03:25] <sweetsinse> whats the capacity on the 1000
[03:27] <Nubbie> wow. that's actually not bad for 32gb SSD
[03:27] <Nubbie> 64gb****
[03:27] <Nubbie> :O
[03:29] <toresbe> it's a shitty, overpriced laptop
[03:29] <Nubbie> toresbe: correct.
[03:29] <Nubbie> toresbe: at the very least, it will bring down the production costs of SSD.
[03:29] <RAOF> toresbe: This of course depends on what you want to do with it :)
[03:31] <toresbe> RAOF: no, it doesn't... there are no redeeming features
[03:31] <toresbe> it's the standard apple "oh my god another mediocre product from apple" hype
[03:31] <uniscript> but pretty
[03:31] <RAOF> toresbe: It's extremely light, and extremely thin.
[03:31] <toresbe> RAOF: like a lot of cheaper better and higher-quality laptops
[03:32] <RAOF> toresbe: It's entirely possible that these aren't useful features *for you* (and they're not really for me), but they're certainly features.
[03:32] <toresbe> (which, OMG, have Ethernet ports! ETHERNET PORTS!)
[03:32] <RAOF> toresbe: Name two :)
[03:32] <Nubbie> lol.
[03:32] <uniscript> pretty, MacOS
[03:32] <Nubbie> RAOF: eeepc.
[03:32] <toresbe> RAOF: IBM X61, Asus Eee PC.
[03:32] <Nubbie> uniscript: what's so great about OSX?
[03:33] <uniscript> did I say it was great?
[03:33] <RAOF> Nubbie: Isn't the eepc really extremely small & also quite low powered.  And has 4GB of storage?
[03:33] <Nubbie> uniscript: the macbook has OSX... so what's the point of the air?
[03:33] <uniscript> you asked for two features. I know a number of mac fans
[03:33] <DanaG> I've installed OS X on MY PC, and I still use Linux as my primary OS.
[03:34] <Nubbie> RAOF: that 4gb is upgradable. and about $1400 cheaper.
[03:34]  * DanaG will never buy a laptop without Gigabit Ethernet.
[03:34] <uniscript> OK it's pretty *and* it's light *and* it runs Mac OSX, and the feature is in the and function
[03:34] <RAOF> Nubbie: For about $1400 less computer, apparently :)
[03:34] <Nubbie> uniscript: if i WERE to buy a mac, i wouldn't be able to find many excuses to buy an air over a regular macbook.
[03:34] <wastrel> i installed chandler on my ubuntu hardy
[03:34] <uniscript> ah but you are an engineer
[03:35] <uniscript> the air isn't aimed at you and your interest in functionality
[03:35] <Nubbie> uniscript: i am a student.
[03:35] <Nubbie> uniscript: even as a student i couldn't justify it.
[03:35] <uniscript> no, but an executive might
[03:36] <uniscript> I'm not here to defend the thing.   It doesn't do what _I_ want in a laptop, but I'm pretty sure that other people have different wants/needs.
[03:36] <Nubbie> uniscript: what they've done IS really cool and all, it just isn't targeted at ANY audience other than those looking for a "pretty" computer.
[03:37] <uniscript> we agree
[03:37] <Nubbie> dope.
[03:37] <Nubbie> now lets wait for hardy alpha 5.
[03:37] <DanaG> I wouldn't use the Air if you PAID me to use it.... or maybe, I'd take it, sell it, and use the money to buy something else.
[03:37] <Nubbie> i use it for sure if i didn't have to pay for it lol.
[03:38]  * DanaG points to existing rants about ethernet and USB and firewire, or lack thereof.
[03:38] <DanaG> A pointer to a rant is less annoying than the rant itself.
[03:39] <Nubbie> firewire is pointless. for the very small percentage of people who actually use it i think they should just offer an exprescard adapter for it.
[03:39] <DanaG> No expresscard slot.
[03:39] <Nubbie> lawl.
[03:39] <DanaG> Firewire does have one point: firewire CD drive.  Firewire hard drive.
[03:39] <DanaG> Firewire network, since they don't have GbE.
[03:39] <Nubbie> DanaG: eSATA > firewire.
[03:40] <Nubbie> oh i forgot macs can network over firewire and usb and what not.
[03:40] <uniscript> I know this question is supposed to be out of bounds, but I'm wondering when to upgrade to hardy on my one machine. I'm not afraid to fix stuff
[03:40] <uniscript> dell d620 laptop
[03:40] <Nubbie> uniscript: run the alpha livecd.
[03:40] <Nubbie> :|
[03:41] <uniscript> just that I'm going to be *really* busy around release date
[03:41] <uniscript> nubbie: good point, duh
[03:41] <Nubbie> if stuff is broken, beyond your knowledge of how to fix it, don't use it, and report the bugs.
[03:41] <uniscript> (that was duh towards me not you btw)
[03:42] <DanaG> No eSATA, either!
[03:42] <DanaG> So it's a moot point.
[03:42] <Nubbie> i realize that uniscript lol.
[03:42] <Nubbie> DanaG: i'm talking about computers *in general* but yes, i see the use of firewire on macs with no ethernet.
[03:42] <sweetsinse> RAWR i want hardy 5
[03:43] <DanaG> They could even use the 4-pin, if they don't want the bigger 6-pin.
[03:44]  * Nubbie awaits hardy alpha 5 over a bowl of icecream
[03:44] <DanaG> Two cool features in the notebook I'm considering next time:
[03:45] <DanaG> A.  BIOS option for "Fan always on when on AC Power" -- different people like different ways.
[03:45] <DanaG> B.  BIOS option for 'swap FN and Ctrl' -- how sweet is that?  It's awesome.
[03:45] <sweetsinse> i want a custom bios that broadcasts its location when its stolen
[03:45] <Nubbie> lol that would be cool.
[03:45] <sweetsinse> bios driven not os
[03:46] <Nubbie> that would be sick. no way to thwart that.
[03:46] <DanaG> CompuJack has some embedded thingy, but I wouldn't believe it'd work.
[03:46] <sweetsinse> yeah
[03:46] <DanaG> Oh, and it has both touchpad and pointy-stick, each with three physical buttons.
[03:46] <sweetsinse> i have a fingerprint reader on my lappy
[03:46] <uniscript> could linux bios do that for you?
[03:46] <sweetsinse> i can log in with it
[03:47] <uniscript> so fingerprint readers work ok in ubuntu?
[03:47] <Nubbie> 3 buttons is dumb.
[03:47] <Nubbie> it's not hard to press both at the same time.
[03:47] <sweetsinse> it was kinda a bitch to get w3rking
[03:47] <sweetsinse> using think_finger
[03:47] <sweetsinse> but its in offical repos now i think
[03:47] <sweetsinse> this was back on feisty, i havent done it in gutsy
[03:47] <Nubbie> uniscript: i believe the fingerprint readers are recognized as video devices via v4l.
[03:48] <wastrel> i like 3 button
[03:48] <sweetsinse> yeah the take an image, mine is on usb bus
[03:48] <sweetsinse> they take*
[03:48] <DanaG> Can somebody post an image of what it captures?
[03:48] <Nubbie> so we can all agree that 1 button touch pads are retarded (or mentally deficient for our politically correct audience)
[03:49] <uniscript> even MacOS needs cmd+click
[03:49] <wastrel> somewhat mitigated by the multitouch thing nowadays
[03:49] <wastrel> two-finger tap
[03:49] <DanaG> But can't do three-finger tap in OS X.
[03:49] <Nubbie> yeah... but DAMN the patent mess surrounding it.
[03:49] <DanaG> Here's how I have my touchpad in Linux:  1 == nothing, 2 == middle, 3 == right.
[03:50] <DanaG> Can't do that in OS X or in the Windows synaptics drivers.
[03:50] <DanaG> Oddly, the "swipe three fingers to go back a page" has existed in the Synaptics Windows drivers for years --- but, it's always been hidden.
[03:52] <wastrel> i'm not fond of multitouch since i don't use touchpad much anyway
[03:52] <wastrel> but it's nice when i'm stuck on an apple laptop
[03:57] <DanaG> I prefer touchpad over mouse, actually -- especially under Linux.
[03:59] <Nubbie> DanaG: you obviously don't work with graphics then lol.
[03:59] <Nubbie> as a photographer i couldn't survive without a mouse.
[04:01] <DanaG> I don't work with graphics.  The mouse I have is an MX700, and I find that using it (especially when it's cold) can lead to an "I'd better stop now or I'm going to get RSI" pain in my hand.
[04:02] <cwillu> Nubbie, you're obviously new on the whole digital photography thing, or you'd be using a trackball :p
[04:03] <wastrel> i use trackpoint
[04:03] <toresbe> I use a Teletype... idiots!
[04:03] <DanaG> I use MouseKeys...... not.
[04:04] <Nubbie> rofl
[04:04] <Nubbie> i want retina trackers. how sick would that be?
[04:04] <sweetsinse> haha no doubt man
[04:04] <sweetsinse> i saw a wii remote programed to a guys comp
[04:05] <sweetsinse> that was cool
[04:05] <Nubbie> i also saw that.
[04:05] <Nubbie> the wiimote is just a bluetooth device correct? and it uses the infrared points to calculate it's position in space.
[04:05] <sweetsinse> i mean not quite retinas but hey a step in the right dircetion.  ive always believe in nintendo, haha from the beginning
[04:06] <sweetsinse> it uses the screen i think too like duckhunt just more precise
[04:06] <Nubbie> i must say i sold my gamecube for an xbox.
[04:06] <Nubbie> and i don't regret it.
[04:06] <sweetsinse> hell no
[04:06] <sweetsinse> ive modded like 150+ xboxes in meh day
[04:06] <Nubbie> sweetsinse: yeah that's what i did.
[04:06] <sweetsinse> haha i use to make ppl pay me
[04:06] <sweetsinse> why not
[04:06] <Nubbie> sweetsinse: XBMC is one incredible app. i'm surprised they didn't land a contract with microsoft for their efforts.
[04:07] <sweetsinse> i know
[04:07]  * Nubbie goes to serve up some ice cream.
[04:07] <sweetsinse> microsoft did talk to the team that made the 360 skin for xbmc, they just wanted the little 360 rotator thingy removed, other than that they said keep up the good w3rk
[04:08] <DanaG> How about un-drm'ing the xbox?
[04:08] <DanaG> Or letting people build an OS for the 360?
[04:08] <DanaG> Nope, too open.
[04:08] <Nubbie> DanaG: the original xbox has no elements of anything resembling a DRM scheme.
[04:09] <Nubbie> DanaG: and there is an amazing linux community for the xbox too.
[04:09] <DanaG> oh, well, why do you need a modchip for xbmc?
[04:09] <DanaG> Or do you _not_ need one?
[04:10] <Nubbie> DanaG: you do NOT.
[04:10] <Nubbie> DanaG: it's just easiest if you do have one.
[04:11] <Nubbie> you can mod your xbox without even opening the case.
[04:11] <Nubbie> it's called soft modding, it's less technical, but as a result it's more of a hassle.
[04:14] <sweetsinse> yeah
[04:14] <sweetsinse> but there are all inclusive setups
[04:14]  * DanaG doesn't own one, anyway.
[04:15] <sweetsinse> i use a savegame from krayzie i think that sets up the softmod, backs up the C, created a shadow C, created shadow EEPROM, and installs evox
[04:16] <sweetsinse> makes it impossiblefor ppl to mess up their box
[04:17] <DanaG> Odd... compiz, or perhaps libwnck, is b0rked.
[04:18] <DanaG> It has 4 workspaces instead of one 4-sided workspace.... despite the fact that compiz-fusion is set to the latter.
[04:20] <DanaG> I have to manually go reset the number of workspaces to 2 and then back to 1 to fix it.
[04:21] <DanaG> Oh, and WTF?  You can't change the number of workspaces from the pager applet.
[04:27] <sweetsinse> what is libwnck for
[04:27] <sweetsinse> ugh i just keep checking to see if alpha is out yet
[04:31] <DanaG> !info libwnck
[04:31] <ubotu> Package libwnck does not exist in hardy
[04:31] <DanaG> !info libwnck0
[04:31] <ubotu> Package libwnck0 does not exist in hardy
[04:31] <DanaG> !info libwnck-dev
[04:31] <ubotu> libwnck-dev (source: libwnck): Window Navigator Construction Kit - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.21.91-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 210 kB, installed size 1196 kB
[04:31] <DanaG> !info libwnck
[04:37] <sweetsinse> ahem
[04:42] <DanaG> Here's something odd about the new wallpaper: each color is actually darker than it looks.  Try guessing the color (subjective, not RGB) of a section, and then using a color picker on it.
[04:44] <wastrel> hrm ff3 is b0rky
[04:45] <sweetsinse> reya276 dpkg configure is not suppoer to w3rk anymore on xorg
[04:45] <sweetsinse> they removed it
[04:46] <sweetsinse> and the serverlayout section
[04:46] <reya276> ok how can I fix my resolution
[04:46] <sweetsinse> what is the output of:   xrandr   : in therminalk
[04:47] <reya276> default connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm
[04:47] <sweetsinse> there are no resolution options?
[04:48] <reya276> no none, not even to select a different graphics card
[04:48] <reya276> well yes there is 640x480
[04:49] <sweetsinse> wha graphics card do you have
[04:49] <DanaG> Well, at least it'll stop people from recommending dpkg-reconfiguring Xorg as the universal solution to so many Xorg problems.
[04:50] <sweetsinse> yeah
[04:50] <reya276> it's an old ATI m64
[04:50] <sweetsinse> ugh nasty ati huh
[04:50] <reya276> well no the restricted drivers kicked in just fine
[04:50] <sweetsinse> the resticed driver manager doesnt w3rk i suppose
[04:51] <sweetsinse> so it says active?
[04:51] <sweetsinse> or enabled
[04:51] <RAOF> I didn't think fglrx still supported cards that old.
[04:53]  * DanaG has the Tetris title theme as his phone ring.
[04:53] <reya276> sweetsinse: oh actually the restricted drivers are only on for my wireless card not the graphics card, maybe this is the issue, I need the drivers
[04:53]  * DanaG wonders how many of the people here have been to Cal Poly, SLO.
[04:56] <Nubbie> cal poly....
[04:56] <Nubbie> what....
[04:57] <DanaG> !google
[04:57] <ubotu> Google is a very popular search engine: http://www.google.com  -  Google also has a Linux-specific search engine: http://google.com/linux
[04:57] <DanaG> !google cal poly
[04:57] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about google cal poly - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[04:57] <DanaG> dang, no google script.
[05:00] <sweetsinse> reya276 i know ati needs restricted
[05:02] <Nubbie> sweetsinse: that's not necessarily true. not all ati cards require restricted drivers.
[05:03] <sweetsinse> ok then
[05:03] <sweetsinse> haha
[05:03] <sweetsinse> everyone ive done needed it :)
[05:03]  * DanaG hopes fglrx or radeonhd (I don't care which) is good enough by summer for /me to jump ship from nvidia.
[05:03] <sweetsinse> i b back
[05:03] <DanaG> m64?
[05:03] <DanaG> mach 64?
[05:03] <DanaG> Radeon?  Rage?
[05:03] <reya276> sweetsinse: yeah, I'm downloading the xorg-fglrx drivers now, hopefully this will fix the issue
[05:04] <reya276> radeon
[05:04] <cooldevices> DanaG lol do you really beleive they implement full 3d support from scratch by summer in radeonhd?
[05:04] <DanaG> No, but perhaps fglrx will have improved by then.
[05:05] <DanaG> I've never heard of a "Radeon M64" -- or is it a Mobility, and really a 7000 or 7500 or something?
[05:05] <Nubbie> cooldevices: AMD is running that ship now, they may force open source drivers.
[05:05] <cooldevices> DanaG: whats wrong with nvidia?
[05:06] <cooldevices> no open source?
[05:06] <Nubbie> intel graphics are superior to both ati and nvidia in terms of open source drivers.
[05:06] <DanaG> Freezing, lockups, screen blinking, no open source at all, and Windows drivers often suck.
[05:06] <cooldevices> Nubbie: too bad regnum online not work with intel :/
[05:07] <Nubbie> the only restricted driver i have enabled is for wireless. and even then, 99.9% of that code is open source.
[05:07] <cooldevices> DanaG: which videocard?
[05:08] <DanaG> GeForce Go 7600 (128MB).
[05:08] <reya276> is there anyway to reconfigure my display drivers
[05:09] <shadowblade> Can someone help me revert to Gusty? I'm having way too many problems with hardy heron alpha and I'd like to avoid wiping and starting over.
[05:10] <DanaG> reya276: one thing useful: man radeon
[05:10] <DanaG> Also look in the xorg log for errors about EDID and/or DDC, and such.
[05:12] <shadowblade> anyone?
[05:12] <reya276> DanaG: this is the card I have Radeon IGP 330M/340M/350M
[05:14] <cooldevices> end users don't care about open source, they not going to modify source. so it is more like faith.
[05:14] <cooldevices> nvidia driver work ok for me
[05:14] <DigitalNinja> Is there a release date for hardy?
[05:14] <cadefy> april
[05:15] <uniscript> 24th iirc
[05:15] <DigitalNinja> sorry heron
[05:15] <DigitalNinja> April 24
[05:15] <DigitalNinja> Is there a website with the dates?
[05:16] <cooldevices> drivers are free anyway, even if they are proprietary
[05:16] <Nubbie> DigitalNinja: http://ubuntu.com/testing
[05:16] <shadowblade> anyone?
[05:16] <Nubbie> cooldevices: yeah, but you don't know what's going on  behind the scenes. and if something goes wrong, nobody is able to fix it.
[05:17] <Nubbie> shadowblade: why did you upgrade to an alpha pre-release?
[05:17] <DanaG> It's possible to downgrade using apt pinning, but it's risky, and I don't remember offhand how to do it.
[05:17] <cooldevices> Nubbie: nobody is going to fix open source, if developers dont want it
[05:18] <Nubbie> cooldevices: if there's a security problem with a closed source program, how do you go about fixing it?
[05:19] <cooldevices> Nubbie: why me? nvidia has security problem once and fixed it itslef
[05:19] <shadowblade> Nubbie: I was having a problem with an application and I got from a google search that it worked ok with hardy, so I tired it on another machine and it didn't work, nevermind the application
[05:19] <cooldevices> itself
[05:19] <DigitalNinja> Nubbie: Thanks!
[05:20] <Nubbie> cooldevices: and if nvidia had budget problems and cut back support for their linux bug fixes...
[05:21] <cooldevices> Nubbie: are linux developers rich and have no budget problems? linux depend on donating
[05:22] <RAOF> cooldevices: The FSF is *founded* on "man, I wish I could fix this crap software".
[05:22] <Nubbie> cooldevices: no, if something's broke and somebody has an interest and the ability to fix something, they will.
[05:23] <RAOF> cooldevices: While proprietary drivers don't have to be worse quality than open-source drivers, you can't fix them.
[05:23] <Nubbie> i'd go out on a limb to say that 85% of all linux developers are unpaid.
[05:23] <cooldevices> RAOF: i like millions of potential linux user can't fix open source either, cuz i'm not programmer
[05:24] <cooldevices> *users
[05:24] <RAOF> cooldevices: But, similarly, you can't ask *Ubuntu* to fix it.
[05:24] <cooldevices> i can ask nvidia to fix it
[05:24] <RAOF> And there are also at least tens of thousands, if not millions, of linux users who *can* fix drivers.
[05:25] <RAOF> cooldevices: And if your problem isn't a priority, then you're left without recourse.
[05:25] <Nubbie> cooldevices: nvidia already has your money. linux devs fix things to keep users.
[05:25] <RAOF> Also, nvidia's bug tracker isn't.
[05:25] <shadowblade> So can anyone help me?
[05:26] <cooldevices> well i will choose another videocard which work, this is how business works
[05:26] <Nubbie> shadowblade: looks like you installed too early.
[05:26] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Why do they care? You aren't a business user
[05:27] <Nubbie> you were warned... many times, that by installing an ALPHA release, you were taking a risk.
[05:27] <Amaranth> cooldevices: They make Linux drivers for workstation graphics people, the desktop and laptop stuff is just so they get hype and Dell will ship their stuff in Ubuntu laptops
[05:27] <shadowblade> So is there a way to revert to my old install? It seems like I could just put in my Gusty disc and "update" like I did downloading the hardy files
[05:27] <Amaranth> shadowblade: Downgrades are not supported and likely to break
[05:27] <Nubbie> cooldevices: so every time something breaks, you're content in just buying a new one.
[05:27] <RAOF> shadowblade: There's no way of reverting to gutsy without possibly breaking your system more.  It's a reinstall.
[05:28] <shadowblade> Ok, thanks
[05:28] <Amaranth> shadowblade: No one ever codes in a downgrade migration path so if something got migrated to a new setup on upgrade you're going to lose it on downgrade
[05:28] <Nubbie> shadowblade: better luck next time. stick to final releases.
[05:28] <Nubbie> shadowblade: i hate to sound brutal, but if you try to slog through the bugs, your system will correct itself....
[05:28] <Nubbie> bleagg..
[05:29] <Amaranth> cooldevices: For example, there are problems with nvidia and compiz that are very long lived and well known. They'll fix one (or make an attempt, anyway) only every so often when people start to get really upset and bad mouth them a lot.
[05:29] <Nubbie> i'd like to see ubuntu employ an automatic system to backup a previous release before upgrading.
[05:29] <cooldevices> RAOF: millions of linux "programmers" who know how to fix drivers... and no working open source video driver?.. hmmm
[05:29] <Nubbie> should save many newb's asses.
[05:30] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Actually we have an open source nvidia driver. For 2D it is even faster than nvidia's driver for some things
[05:30] <Amaranth> 3D work is still in progress though
[05:30] <Nubbie> cooldevices: that's not the linux developers problems. the chip manufacturers won't release the SPECS on their hardware.
[05:30] <cooldevices> Amaranth: i have long lived bugs with ubuntu since 7.04 which was not fixed yet
[05:30] <Amaranth> cooldevices: But you didn't pay us ;)
[05:30] <RAOF> cooldevices: Also, _fixing_ a problem in a driver is much easier than writing one from scratch with no idea about how the hardware works.
[05:30] <DanaG> *blink*
[05:31] <DanaG> there's that bug.  I hate that one.
[05:31] <DanaG> *blink*
[05:31] <Nubbie> cooldevices: all the work on the drivers you use is thanks to the hard work many reverse engineers have accomplished.
[05:31] <Amaranth> cooldevices: And you have the ability to fix your problems if you put in the effort
[05:31] <AnswerGuy> I'm trying remaster a hardy LiveCD and change the default wallpaper --- and I can't seem to get it working.
[05:31] <Amaranth> cooldevices: I could fix the nvidia/compiz problems if they would let me
[05:31] <RAOF> DanaG: Wouldn't it be nice if nvidia fixed *that* :)
[05:31] <Nubbie> AnswerGuy: it shouldn't be hard to locate the wallpaper file and to replace it with another file with an equal name...
[05:32] <AnswerGuy> If I overwrite /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final.png with my new graphic it works
[05:32] <DanaG> I actually haven't run into that one in a while.
[05:32] <AnswerGuy> But how can I find where that is configured (so I can pick the name)
[05:32] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: Right, make a package that diverts that file and put your own copy in
[05:32] <Amaranth> This is how UbuntuStudio does it
[05:33] <Amaranth> Their artwork packages just move aside the Ubuntu files and put their own in because changing the configuration is too much work
[05:33] <AnswerGuy> It over-writes the file named warty-final.png?
[05:33] <Amaranth> It diverts it
[05:33] <TrustNoOne> where to obtain latest official beta of hardy?
[05:33] <Amaranth> basically a rename that dpkg can keep track of
[05:33] <AnswerGuy> That seems gravely inelegant.
[05:33] <Nubbie> TrustNoOne: Hardy is still ALPHA software.
[05:33] <AnswerGuy> Nice that dpkg keeps track of it; but yuck
[05:33] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: Not really, it's a pretty clean, simple, and robust solution
[05:33] <Nubbie> TrustNoOne: do NOT install it on machines you need to rely on.
[05:34] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: hardy is still alpha, no beta
[05:34] <TrustNoOne> Nubbie, i know its still alpha
[05:34] <Nubbie> TrustNoOne: that said... http://ubuntu.com/testing if it breaks, don't come complaining.
[05:34] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing
[05:34] <cooldevices> Nubbie: isnt reverse enineering illegal?
[05:34] <Nubbie> TrustNoOne: there's your warning.
[05:34] <Amaranth> But alpha 5 will be out in a couple days
[05:34] <Nubbie> cooldevices: no.
[05:34] <AnswerGuy> Well, if I'm understanding it correctly the name warty-final.png is embedded somewhere in a binary ... that's ugly.
[05:34] <Nubbie> cooldevices: reverse engineering is absolutely legal.
[05:34] <TrustNoOne> reverse engineering is only illegal if you get caught ;)
[05:34] <RAOF> cooldevices: Depends on what you mean by "reverse engineering", and where you do it.
[05:34] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: No, somewhere in gconf
[05:34] <AnswerGuy> It should at least be named something like: default-background.png
[05:34] <Nubbie> cooldevices: so long as all code as a result is of original content.
[05:35] <RAOF> cooldevices: For example, in Europe, it's pretty much fair game whatever you want to do (IIRC).
[05:35] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: Well, the idea was hoary would have hoary-final.png, then breezy would have breezy-final.png, etc
[05:35] <Nubbie> cooldevices: the only instance of reverse engineering being illegal is if you try to circumvent encryption schemes or DRM. and even then, it's only illegal in the US and a handful of other states.
[05:35] <RAOF> cooldevices: However, in the USA you're not allowed to reverse engineer binaries.  You're still welcome to do other reverse engineering.
[05:35] <Kalamansi> before i can connect internet. but after i installed skype, i cannot connect to the internet...
[05:35] <AnswerGuy> Yes, I guessed that.
[05:35] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: But it is not easy to change the users configuration (and not a nice thing to do anyway) so to make sure they get the updated artwork the warty-final.png name was kept
[05:36] <Nubbie> Kalamansi: somebody else was in here with that problem.
[05:36] <Amaranth> if skype was open source I could fix that ;)
[05:36] <Nubbie> the best solution is to avoid all closed source software.
[05:37] <RAOF> Amaranth: If skype was open source I wouldn't have to endure the crappy statically linked 32bit evilness!
[05:37] <Kalamansi> Amaranth yes its opensource i guess. coz its debian? hehe not sure what im talking about hehehe
[05:37] <DanaG> I avoid skype.  It doesn't play well with PulseAudio.
[05:37] <cooldevices> RAOF: who cares about laws in europe? they still have bears on the streets
[05:37] <Amaranth> Kalamansi: Skype is closed source
[05:37] <cooldevices> not RIAA or Microsoft
[05:37] <Amaranth> cooldevices: You do realize your audience here is people up late in the US and people up early in Europe, right?
[05:38] <RAOF> Or people during business hours in .AU!
[05:38] <Kalamansi> Amaranth it was working before..but when reinstalling ubuntu again it wont work
[05:38] <Kalamansi> i dont have internet now
[05:38] <Kalamansi> after installing skype
[05:38] <Nubbie> cooldevices: you'll open your eyes some day.
[05:38] <Amaranth> RAOF: People in Australia don't really exist, that's a liberal lie meant to scare young children
[05:38] <Nubbie> ROFL.
[05:38] <RAOF> We're all just vamprie ghosts, anyway.
[05:38] <cooldevices> Amaranth: what i mean is US companies not going to respect EU laws, if you reverse engineer windows or nvidia driver, where it leads?
[05:39] <Kalamansi> dhcp wont work too
[05:39] <Nubbie> cooldevices: it leads to new laws being created.
[05:39] <RAOF> cooldevices: If you do your reverse engineering in Europe, no where.
[05:39] <DanaG> It's 9:39 PM here -- Pacific Time.
[05:39] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Actually we have this cool UN treaty that means they do respect these laws
[05:39] <DanaG> DST?  Beats me.
[05:39] <Amaranth> For copyrights and patents, anyway
[05:39] <Amaranth> Well, except for software patents
[05:40] <DanaG> What's this about vampires?
[05:40] <Nubbie> cooldevices: reverse engineering is essential. if the law should be upheld, the public should not be forced into proprietary monopolies.
[05:40] <Nubbie> cooldevices: the law will change.
[05:40] <Amaranth> And reverse engineering is allowed in the US too
[05:40] <RAOF> DanaG: Australia is populated by vampire ghosts.  I thought everyone knew that.
[05:40] <Amaranth> But to be safe from legal issues you do clean room reverse engineering
[05:40] <cooldevices> Nubbie: not before US taked over whole world
[05:40] <Nubbie> one of the reasons Canada is still a safe place for the internet and technology in general.
[05:40] <Nubbie> cooldevices: that's childish.
[05:41] <Nubbie> cooldevices: where are you from?
[05:41] <Amaranth> Which is basically one group of people documenting "when you do this you get this output" and another group using that documentation to write a clone
[05:41] <DanaG> The only vampire I'd ever want to meet is one Evangeline A.K. McDowell.
[05:42] <RAOF> Whoops!  There goes /var/log getting filled with debug spam again.
[05:42] <RAOF> Things break in surprising ways when you can't create files on /
[05:42] <DanaG> My /var/log is only 116M.
[05:43] <Amaranth> 8.3M
[05:43] <RAOF> DanaG: mine is 470Mb, but that's just because that's all the free space I have on / :)
[05:43] <RAOF> s/have/had/
[05:44] <Nubbie> lol.
[05:44] <DanaG> Hmm, how big is the partition, and how big is the drive?
[05:44] <RAOF> I've had it grow to > 2 GB.
[05:44] <RAOF> The partition is 10G, which is usually plenty :)
[05:44] <DanaG> My partition is 20G.
[05:44] <RAOF> It used to be 5GB ;)
[05:45]  * TrustNoOne just enters conversation
[05:45] <TrustNoOne> whats goin on?
[05:45]  * DanaG has the Hitachi 7k200-200 in his notebook.
[05:45] <Nubbie> i usually keep my / partition around 15G... only because i install a lot of big games heheh.
[05:45] <TrustNoOne> games on linux?
[05:45] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  I suppose OpenArena took up a fair whallop.
[05:45] <Nubbie> TrustNoOne.....
[05:45] <RAOF> That'd be why.
[05:45] <Tronic> TrustNoOne: There are plenty.
[05:45] <Nubbie> openarena <3
[05:46] <Amaranth> most of my games are installed in ~/.wine/drive_c/
[05:46] <Nubbie> battle for wesnoth!
[05:46] <TrustNoOne> ya but not GREAT ones, just old ones
[05:46] <Tronic> (and I am NOT talking about Tuxracer or ID's old games)
[05:46] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: Tremulous is awesome
[05:46] <Nubbie> Amaranth: blast your windows addiction.
[05:46] <TrustNoOne> ya like WoW and source...
[05:46] <TrustNoOne> not CoD4 :D
[05:46] <DanaG> Games don't like PulseAudio.
[05:46] <Tronic> TrustNoOne: Frets on Fire, UltraStarNG, TA Spring. All new and good.
[05:46] <Amaranth> Nubbie: It's portal, gotta have portal
[05:46] <Nubbie> zomg tremulous is my FAV open source game.
[05:46] <cooldevices> TrustNoOne: actually urban terror is as great as CS16 or COD, or even better
[05:46] <TrustNoOne> dont like frets :( like GH more
[05:46] <DanaG> And PulseAudio doesn't use the 'surround51' plugin with my Audigy.
[05:46] <Tronic> TrustNoOne: Better than their commercial counterparts, even.
[05:46] <TrustNoOne> "imitation" games
[05:46] <Amaranth> America's Army is a good one too
[05:47] <TrustNoOne> its like saying twonkies are as good as twinkies but they still taste different
[05:47] <Tronic> FoF runs better than GH3 on PC.
[05:47] <TrustNoOne> i know but its not as sexually appealing
[05:47] <TrustNoOne> just use ps3 for games instead  and got yellow dog on there
[05:48] <cooldevices> TrustNoOne: actually i was dissapointed with most new windows games, old games was better, ID proving it by remarketing quake 3 as quake live
[05:48] <Amaranth> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001007.html
[05:48] <Tronic> Yes, the new FoF graphics are somewhat depressing, now that they try to imitate GH. The original 2D flame thing was much nicer.
[05:48] <Amaranth> Frets vs GH
[05:48] <TrustNoOne> well depends, i dont PC game much, more console gaming since it requires less config and my 62 inch HDTV supplements it better than a 19 inch monitor ;)
[05:48] <Nubbie> oooo urban terror looks good.
[05:49] <TrustNoOne> got GH3 on ps3, its great except the guitar is a PoS
[05:49] <DanaG> FoF?
[05:49] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: But you're at most 2 feet from your 19" monitor and at least 10 feet from your TV so I think the TV is actually smaller
[05:49] <TrustNoOne> FoF = Frets on Fire
[05:49] <Tronic> DanaG: A Guitar Hero clone for PC.
[05:49]  * DanaG plays mostly only HL2-based games.
[05:49] <Amaranth> DanaG: The cake is a lie
[05:49] <TrustNoOne> rofl
[05:50] <Tronic> UltrastarNG is a Singstar clone for Linux and Mac.
[05:50] <TrustNoOne> the last level of portal was not good
[05:50] <TrustNoOne> it was creepy
[05:50] <Amaranth> Portal was _awesome_
[05:50] <cooldevices> i dont like orange box
[05:50] <Tronic> TA Spring is a Supreme Commander "clone", created before SC was.
[05:50] <TrustNoOne> fastest time to beat portal was 1 hour 14 minutes
[05:50] <DanaG> Oh, I know of Frets on Fire; I just didn't know the abbreviation.
[05:50] <Amaranth> the only part i didn't like was it was over too soon
[05:50] <RAOF> Amaranth: Which gave it the added charm of not wearing out its welcome.
[05:50] <DanaG> I don't like how it crashes if you use the portal gun on the wrong material in HL2 maps.
[05:50] <Amaranth> but then again if it was longer the story might have been more forced to fill in the time
[05:50]  * RAOF agrees with GDC: Game of the Year?    This results in spurious garbage in /var/log/auth.log, and should probably be removed.
[05:51] <TrustNoOne> fastest time to beat portal?
[05:51] <TrustNoOne> 1:14
[05:51] <Flannel> Hey guys, I've got a question as to how Dapper -> Hardy upgrades are working if there's no linux-image-686 transitional packages in hardy? (or at least, not on the alt CD or in packages.ubuntu.com)
[05:51] <RAOF> twb: Please file a bug.
[05:51] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: I'm not interested in speed
[05:51] <DanaG> Yay, wine is segfaulting.
[05:51] <DanaG> winecfg
[05:51] <DanaG> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[05:51] <Amaranth> DanaG: Yeah, it does that
[05:51] <RAOF> DanaG: Known problem.
[05:51] <DanaG> aah.
[05:51] <Amaranth> but it doesn't do it here :D
[05:51] <twb> RAOF: I'm not prepared to use launchpad.
[05:51] <Amaranth> twb: Why not?
[05:51] <TrustNoOne> Amaranth, thats the whole point of portal is speed
[05:52] <DanaG> I also haven't installed the new HAL because I've heard it breaks battery reporting.
[05:52] <RAOF> DanaG: The winehq gutsy package works fine.  You can find out about aptitude forbid-version
[05:52] <sweetsinse> it does
[05:52] <TrustNoOne> Amaranth, didnt you do secondary missions where you have to beat it fast?
[05:52] <twb> Amaranth: because I cannot register without using a graphical browser
[05:52] <Amaranth> TrustNoOne: It's actually a pretty detailed environment
[05:52] <Amaranth> twb: oh?
[05:52] <sweetsinse> i have 2 battery indicators
[05:52] <RAOF> DanaG: Well, for me it actually fixes my "2 batteries reported" problem.
[05:52] <twb> Amaranth: that I have to register to file bugs at all demonstrates you don't want my help.
[05:52] <Amaranth> did they add a captcha?
[05:52] <TrustNoOne> G2G, watch supernatural :) wheee bbl
[05:52] <DanaG> That's been "fixed"..... by showing only ONE battery.... that doesn't update.
[05:52] <twb> Since I can't reproduce this bug under Debian, I'm not reporting it to Debian as I do for other Ubuntu bugs I find.  But I thought I should at least mention it.
[05:52] <Amaranth> twb: If you plan to file bugs and not keep track of their status then no, we really don't want your bug reports
[05:53] <sweetsinse> you register becasue the bug reports cant be polluted with anonymous posters
[05:53] <twb> Amaranth: I can track Debian bug reports without having to prove that my email address belongs to me
[05:53] <RAOF> DanaG: Oooh.  I'll need to check that (removes AC)
[05:53] <sweetsinse> you dont have to prove anything mon
[05:53] <Amaranth> twb: Your reports will just take time from triagers marking them as Incomplete when you inevitably forget some information then going back and marking them Invalid when you never come back to give said information
[05:53] <twb> Amaranth: nor do I need to use a web browser to "set up" the ability to report bugs to Debian -- I can just use reportbug(1) on a system that has a working MTA
[05:54] <Amaranth> twb: You could use Debian then?
[05:54] <Amaranth> Nothing stopping you.
[05:54] <twb> I do use Debian for my own projects.
[05:54] <twb> I am in the deplorable situation of being forced to use Ubuntu on customer systems because I can't convince them otherwise.
[05:54] <twb> It is, of course, preferable to putting RHEL on their systems.
[05:54] <Amaranth> yes well, we do good grassroots marketing :)
[05:55] <sweetsinse> hey man not everyone is ready to jump into linux head first
[05:55] <sweetsinse> ubuntu makes the hill a little shallower
[05:55] <RAOF> DanaG: My battery updates.  And it's only showing one now.
[05:55] <Amaranth> sweetsinse: The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is a somewhat large bunch of patches and a default setup
[05:56] <sweetsinse> i have converted alot of ppl, and now they look into linux stuff themselves and branch from tere
[05:56] <twb> sweetsinse: that may be the case, but I *KNOW* how to drive Debian and being forced to use Ubuntu (which is less easy, for me) is annoying.
[05:56] <twb> forced in order to win the contract, I mean.
[05:56] <Amaranth> twb: They work almost the exact same way though
[05:56] <DanaG> Mine also shows one of the two as Product: Ignored Device
[05:56] <Amaranth> We try very hard to keep as little delta as possible
[05:56] <DanaG> And that's the one that doesn't update.
[05:56] <twb> Amaranth: apart from launchpad!
[05:57] <Amaranth> twb: You have to file bug reports using a tool regular users can figure out, yes.
[05:57] <twb> The lack of reportbug and bts support is probably what annoys me most about Ubuntu
[05:57] <Amaranth> Although there is a mail interface too
[05:57] <Amaranth> But you have to register before you can use it
[05:57] <twb> Amaranth: I'm not interested in the needs of "regular" users; I'm interested in the needs of *me*.
[05:57] <twb> I know all about the mail interface to launchpad
[05:58] <RAOF> And if you've set up your GPG keys it's as functional as the Debian BTS, too.
[05:58] <reya276> can anyone help fix some video driver issues
[05:58] <AnswerGuy> I despise gconf2
[05:58] <Amaranth> AnswerGuy: Just do the diversion, much easier
[05:58] <RAOF> AnswerGuy: Because?
[05:58] <twb> The launhpad mail interface needs me to login via the web interface to set up the GPG key -- which means I need a GUI browser at least once.
[05:58] <sweetsinse> i dont know ubuntu helped me into linux a couple years back, and it wasnt very easy at first and im a programmer/webdev/etc...  average user is much less
[05:58] <Amaranth> twb: w3m?
[05:58] <twb> I find this sufficiently offensive that I refuse to use launchpad
[05:58] <twb> Amaranth: you cannot login to launchpad using w3m, lynx, links, elinks or links2.
[05:59] <DanaG> Argh, timidity is buggy.
[05:59] <tritium> There is nothing offensive about it.
[05:59] <twb> Amaranth: I think I also tried netrik
[05:59] <DanaG> Try pulseaudio wrapping it.
[05:59] <twb> tritium: that is your opinion.
[05:59] <sweetsinse> i helped a guy add arabic to gnome yesterday and hotkey toggle it
[05:59] <DanaG> It drops out sometimes, and then freezes.
[05:59] <RAOF> twb: Rather, we think you have a low 'offensiveness' threshold.
[06:00] <Amaranth> twb: ah, cookie problems
[06:00] <Amaranth> they are very strict
[06:00] <twb> Amaranth: yes.  The launchpad developers said they would not fix this issue.
[06:00] <tritium> this conversation is too trollfensive for me, then
[06:00] <twb> tritium: then by all means killfile me.
[06:01] <reya276> right now is defaulting to the Vesa driver instead of ATI or fglrx
[06:01] <RAOF> reya276: Can you pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?
[06:01] <Amaranth> twb: You mean to tell me you don't have a single machine that has X installed?
[06:01] <Amaranth> twb: And have no machine that can boot a LiveCD?
[06:01] <RAOF> reya276: And your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[06:01] <reya276> sure'
[06:02] <twb> Amaranth: no.  I mean to say that GUI browsers are very painful to use and forcing me to use one makes it too hard for me to report bugs to you.
[06:02] <DanaG> Painful?  In what way?  Is it an accessibility thing?
[06:02] <Amaranth> twb: Then we don't care to receive your bug reports, problem solved.
[06:02] <tritium> Wow, low skill level.
[06:03] <cooldevices> Amaranth: now this offensive
[06:03] <cooldevices> isnt ubuntu server comes without X?
[06:04] <twb> cooldevices: ubuntu server does not install X by default.
[06:04] <reya276> ok here is my xorg.0.log file http://www.pastebin.org/20699
[06:04] <Amaranth> cooldevices: You can boot a LiveCD that has X
[06:04] <twb> cooldevices: it's backed by the same repository as the rest of ubuntu, so you can install it later.
[06:04] <RAOF> And you only need to use a graphical browser *once*.  After you've set it up, you *can* just use a mailer + GPG keys.
[06:05] <twb> RAOF: yes.  hand-crafting bug reports, too.
[06:05] <DanaG> Why DO you say GUI browsers are painful?  Frankly, I am curious.
[06:05] <reya276> and this is my xorg.conf file http://www.pastebin.org/20700
[06:06] <cooldevices> DanaG: i think he free to decide which browser to use
[06:06] <twb> DanaG: for example, they lack the ability to pipe the marked region into arbitrary shell commands.
[06:06] <twb> DanaG: they lack the ablitiy to grep over the region or the buffer
[06:06] <DanaG> Surely there must be some Firefox extension to do that, or something.
[06:07] <twb> DanaG: probably, but I'd prefer it to Just Work out of the box, like it does when browsing from Emacs.
[06:08] <RAOF> reya276: Try adding 'Driver "ati"' (without the ') to the Configured Video Device section.
[06:08] <sweetsinse> everyone wants it to 'just work'.. hence ubuntu
[06:08] <cooldevices> what if someone have X problem, so it cant use it to file bug?
[06:08] <cooldevices> he
[06:10] <sweetsinse> :( there is never going to be an alpha 5
[06:10] <reya276> RAOF: ok did that, do I reboot, restart xserver?
[06:10] <RAOF> reya276: Restart X server should do.
[06:10] <reya276> k
[06:10] <RAOF> reya276: And by that, I mean just log out.
[06:11] <cooldevices> and... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required for support?
[06:11] <RAOF> Because it isn't.
[06:11] <RAOF> You need t
[06:11] <RAOF> You need to use a graphical browser once in order to set up a LP account.  From then on, you can do everything you want with $TEXT_MODE_MAIL_CLIENT of choice.
[06:11] <twb> cooldevices: I think it's assumed that if you're going to be reporting bugs, you've got another box somewhere else with firefox on it.
[06:12] <tritium> cooldevices: support is offered in many forms, including IRC.  X is not required for support.
[06:12] <twb> At least, as RAOF say, once.
[06:12] <cooldevices> tritium: IRC is not for filing bugs
[06:12] <RAOF> twb: Which, you have to admit, is not a high bar to set.
[06:12] <tritium> cooldevices: I didn't say it was.
[06:12] <tritium> when did I say support = filing bugs?
[06:13] <cooldevices> what are we discussin now?
[06:13] <cooldevices> problem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support
[06:13] <twb> RAOF: it is inconvenient, as is having to remember the syntax accepted by the launchpad mail interface, as is collecting version and debconf data by hand.
[06:13] <tritium> cooldevices: I was replying to _your_ statement about X being required for *support*
[06:13] <tritium> Your choice of words, not mine.
[06:13] <cooldevices> 11:13:30 AM) cooldevices: problem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support
[06:14] <tritium> 23:11 < cooldevices> and... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required  for support?
[06:14] <RAOF> twb: I *think* that Ubuntu's reportbug is primed for launchpad, but I'm not sure.
[06:14] <twb> RAOF: it's not
[06:14] <twb> RAOF: it sends it to ubuntu-users, which is a subscribed-only list
[06:14] <RAOF> twb: Patches welcome? :)
[06:15] <twb> Yeah, I haven't got around to it.
[06:16] <RAOF> You might be interested in the python-launchpad-bugs package.
[06:16] <RAOF> If you'd like to write your bug report from a python console it may be useful for you without modification :)
[06:17] <twb> Not especially.
[06:18] <sweetsinse> hi.
[06:25] <RAOF> DanaG: Oh, no.  You're right.  The battery updates exactly once.
[06:30] <cooldevices>  twb: isnt servers ussualy have no DVD drives... to run livecd
[06:30] <twb> cooldevices: that depends largely on what you mean by `server'
[06:30] <DanaG> You could install a bare X server and a very simple window manager, such as a tiling WM.
[06:30] <cooldevices> and probably no monitors too, to run this X thingy
[06:31] <DanaG> Then try something like the 'netsurf' browser.
[06:31] <DanaG> Or install a "fake" x server for vnc.
[06:31] <twb> cooldevices: most of my servers are not physical machines, but emulated by a grunty rack-mounted machine.  I interact with them via ssh.
[06:31] <twb> DanaG: xvnc isn't "fake".
[06:32] <twb> netsurf's form support is still unusable.
[06:33] <DanaG> Hmm, what are some other minimal browsers?
[06:33] <twb> Well, it might be good enough for stuff like the google front-page, as long as you don't need to type non-ASCII.
[06:33] <twb> DanaG: dillo.
[06:33] <twb> DanaG: libwebkitgdk0
[06:33] <twb> The latter also has form support issues in its proof-of-concept browser.
[06:34] <twb> I'm also a big fan of html2ps URL | ps2pdf | with-temp-file evince
[06:34] <DanaG> Well, if you already use evince, then you must have X..... right?
[06:35] <TrustNoOne> wow supernatural was awesome
[06:36] <twb> DanaG: yes.
[06:37] <twb> Although obviously not on the Ubuntu servers.
[06:39] <cooldevices> is firefox open source?
[06:39] <twb> Yes.
[06:39] <Tronic> Yes, but not quite free enough for some.
[06:40] <Tronic> Google for iceweasel and mozilla branding, if you want to know more.
[06:40] <twb> Firefox is open source and free software; the related TRADEMARKs are not DFSG-free.
[06:40] <twb> 17:40 <dpkg> Why iceweasel? Debian cannot comply with the conditions necessary to distribute firefox and call it firefox, so we have changed the name to iceweasel. See http://bugs.debian.org/354622 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_conflict_between_Debian_and_Mozilla for more information.
[06:46] <Nubbie> alpha 5....
[06:47] <Nubbie> is it live yet?
[06:47] <Nubbie> :\
[06:53] <cooldevices> games almost always crash when trying to change resolution, and desktop not return to normal resolution, and now my mouse was frozen, when trying to change resolution in frets on fire
[06:53] <cooldevices> but now game start with new resolution
[06:54] <mcquaid> has alpha 5 slipped?
[06:55] <mcquaid> ah nm i see delayed till 22
[07:00] <cooldevices> it IS 22 lol
[07:00] <corevette> what are the advantages of pulse audio over the old system?
[07:01] <RAOF> corevette: Per-stream audio policies, better network transparency, better latency characteristics.
[07:01] <cooldevices> many, like cross applications mixer (but i cant find it) like in VISTA
[07:02] <Nubbie> shit.
[07:02] <RAOF> !ohmy > Nubbie
[07:02] <Nubbie> :l
[07:02] <Nubbie> RAOF: you're disappointed the alpha got held back too, don't lie to yourself :)
[07:02] <twb> Pulseaudio is a replacement for alsa?
[07:03] <RAOF> twb: No, for ESD.
[07:03] <twb> Ah, that makes more sense.
[07:03] <cooldevices> where is new mixer?
[07:03] <RAOF> Although you can use an alsa plugin to get unmodified alsa apps to use pulse.
[07:03] <corevette> cooldevices: so you can control all application volume like in vista?
[07:03] <twb> Although it always seemed to me the main point of esd was to be able to play music and have GNOME go beep when you resize windows and things
[07:04] <RAOF> Pretty much, yes.  Or, in fact, to let GNOME make any sound at all.
[07:04] <cooldevices> lol so it was not bug that i have no sound in openarena when playing mp3?
[07:04] <RAOF> pulseaudio cleans your dishes, too.
[07:04] <Nubbie> ESD was developed as a wrapper for the sound device so no one program controls the audio sink. ESD combines all sounds into one signal to be sent to the sink.
[07:05] <twb> Doesn't alsa do that now anyway?
[07:05] <RAOF> With dmix, yes.
[07:05] <Nubbie> twb: but pulse audio does it better.
[07:05] <twb> Shrug.
[07:05] <Nubbie> much much better.
[07:05] <RAOF> Also, you get a real sound server too.
[07:06] <Nubbie> mmhrmm... ie. send this sound to another computer server heheh.
[07:06] <twb> You mean like NAS?
[07:06] <RAOF> Well, what I actually meant was "play login sound now".
[07:06] <Nubbie> i look forward to tuning in all my computers into a single audio server to play my music all over the house.
[07:06] <cooldevices> so now i will have sound in openareana when playing music in music player?
[07:06] <cooldevices> rhythmbox
[07:06] <RAOF> Nubbie: My laptop is, as I speak, piping rhythmbox through to my server connected to the stereo.
[07:07] <Nubbie> RAOF: i found pulseaudio intriguing when i used it last.
[07:07] <DanaG> PulseAudio can also do nifty stuff with multiple audio devices.
[07:07] <Nubbie> the GUI's could have used some polishing and love though.
[07:07] <RAOF> Yup, definitely.
[07:08] <Nubbie> i have a good idea for a new volume applet...
[07:08] <cooldevices> what gui?
[07:08] <Nubbie> it would function similarly to the current one.
[07:08] <Nubbie> a mouse scroll over the icon will change the master volume levels, while clicking it reveals a list of each application using the server with a volume bar next to each one.
[07:09] <Nubbie> kinda like a drop down list of volume bars heheh.
[07:14] <cooldevices>  Nubbie: i have vlc and rhythbox each playing music, and i have only 1 volume bar with left-click
[07:17] <Nubbie> cooldevices: of course... that's because you aren't using my idea for a volume applet... because it's non-existent. it's just an idea.
[07:18] <cooldevices> (12:07:28 PM) Nubbie: the GUI's could have used some polishing and love though.  ---- what gui?
[07:18] <Nubbie> cooldevices: the pulse audio ones. when i installed pulse audio it didn't integrate with my desktop to my liking.
[07:18] <cooldevices> how i can run pulse audio gui?
[07:19] <Nubbie> obviously the ubuntu devs are working on that now that it's going to be a major upgrade to the distribution.
[07:19] <Nubbie> afaik they didn't include the gui's in this alpha.
[07:19] <cooldevices> lol...
[07:20] <DanaG> padevchooser is one thing to install.
[07:20] <cooldevices> thanks
[07:24] <cooldevices> shows no playback streams
[07:26] <DanaG> Are you playing anything?
[07:26] <cooldevices> yes
[07:27] <DanaG> Hmm, perhaps it's not using pulseaudio.
[07:27] <Nubbie> :l
[07:27] <DanaG> Look in system->preferences->sound
[07:29] <Assid> anyone know if the flash no sound issue is solved?
[07:31] <cooldevices> DanaG: yeah now it works... but i required also choose pulse audio in players... may it just force itself as default device?
[07:32] <DanaG> Sure.  Install libasound2-plugins and then do 'asoundconf set-pulseaudio'
[07:32] <DanaG> but be aware that some apps break badly with it.
[07:32] <DanaG> Example: Skype.
[07:32] <Assid> err.. is pulseaudio responsible for my flash videos not having sound?
[07:32] <cooldevices> btw i cant control balance, it is same for both channels....
[07:33] <cooldevices> oh nvm i found it
[07:33] <Assid> oh wait.. i see a bug similar to what i have
[07:35] <cooldevices> lol now openarena refuses to start
[07:35] <cooldevices> but forcing work for vlc
[07:37] <DanaG> Oh, for flash: libflashsupport
[07:37] <Assid> if i unmount drives before i logout/shutdown why does it munt up automatically when i login
[07:38] <Nubbie> Assid: because by default ubuntu mounts everything attached to your computer.
[07:38] <cooldevices> lol now pulse audio frozened with badly "loop" sound
[07:39] <Assid> yeah but the internal drives.. it really should remember the "state" right ?
[07:39] <Nubbie> Assid: why is that? if you don't want it mounting automatically, remove it from your fstab.
[07:40] <Nubbie> assid: or don't remove it, just add the 'noauto' attribute.
[07:41] <prg3> Just ran across something interesting.. "apt-get remove nano" tries to pull out ubuntu-base..
[07:42] <Nubbie> nano is an essential editing tool.
[07:42] <Assid> Nubbie: it isnt in my fstab
[07:43] <Nubbie> Assid: if it's an internal drive, it must be in your fstab.
[07:43] <cooldevices> i cant disable "tracker search" (btw one more feature from vista lol), i disable checkboxes "indexing" and "watching", and its still running, animating, "status: indexing in progress" etc.
[07:43] <Nubbie> cooldevices: are you kidding? ubuntu's had desktop search tools long before windows.
[07:43] <Amaranth> actually we've had search tools like this longer than both OS X and Windows
[07:43] <Assid> Nubbie: no i disabled it the time i installed ubuntu
[07:44] <Amaranth> I'd like to believe Spotlight was inspired by Dashboard/Beagle
[07:44] <prg3> Nubbie: I've never used it :)
[07:44] <Amaranth> cooldevices: What other features do you think we got from Vista?
[07:44] <cooldevices> actually places->search for files tool was not able for find files for me in 7.10
[07:44] <Nubbie> Amaranth: steve jobs would like to believe he invented UNIX.
[07:44] <DanaG> That little blinky icon is so irritating.
[07:45] <DanaG> The indexing itself is fine, but I hate the animatedness.
[07:45] <Nubbie> cooldevices: if you want to turn off tracker, turn it off in the services dialogue.
[07:45] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Just because we've had the tools doesn't mean they've been ready for mass use or installed and integrated by default into distros
[07:45] <cooldevices> Amaranth: well sorry about that vista thing
[07:45] <DanaG> Naah, I just want to un-animate the **** icon.
[07:45] <Amaranth> cooldevices: No, seriously, I want to know
[07:45] <Nubbie> cooldevices: it's fanboyism, and it's totally not needed.
[07:46] <cooldevices> Nubbie: what exactly fanboism?
[07:46] <cooldevices> runnin ubuntu is fanboism? i agree
[07:46] <cooldevices> i just have no money to buy os
[07:46]  * DanaG wants to have the Heron wallpaper made into a case skin.
[07:46] <cooldevices> but used to love ubuntu now
[07:46] <DanaG> That'd be awesome.
[07:47] <Nubbie> cooldevices: if you can't afford windows, steal it.
[07:47] <Nubbie> cooldevices: obviously you're still married to it.
[07:47] <cooldevices> well... i kind of dont need it anymore
[07:47] <Assid> okay this is odd
[07:47] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Seriously, I'm not 'mad' or anything, what features do you think we have that come from Vista?
[07:47] <Assid> mount doesnt show my swap
[07:48] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Maybe you're right, maybe I can show you where they really come from (probably OS X :)
[07:48] <DanaG> The other day, I found my swap partition had randomly become not a swap partition.
[07:48] <Nubbie> Assid: because swap isn't mounted.
[07:48] <Amaranth> DanaG: Filed to hibernate?
[07:48] <Nubbie> Assid: swap isn't really even a file system.
[07:48] <Amaranth> err, failed
[07:48] <DanaG> I'm not sure.
[07:48] <DanaG> I've tried suspend-to-disk, and it suspends fine, but often doesn't even bother TRYing to resume.
[07:48] <Amaranth> hibernating destroys your swap partition then regenerates it on resume
[07:49] <cooldevices> Amaranth: to be exact, i'm not saying they are from vista... i'm aware of features like that in MacOSX etc, it is just look for me this way... what another features look this way? let me think...
[07:49] <Amaranth> DanaG: need to add a resume= option in your grub kernel line
[07:49] <Amaranth> DanaG: resume=/dev/sda5 or whatever
[07:49] <Assid> how do i know what the uuid of a paritition is ?
[07:49] <Nubbie> Amaranth: nah, hibernation just freezes ram and throws it all to swap.
[07:49] <DanaG> vol_id -u
[07:49] <Amaranth> Assid: volid
[07:49] <Amaranth> Nubbie: It's a bit more complicated than that
[07:50] <Amaranth> Nubbie: But it doesn't dump it to swap, it basically dd's it over the swap partition
[07:50] <Amaranth> Which destroys it
[07:50] <Nubbie> Amaranth: yeah like the L1 and L2 caches right?
[07:50] <Nubbie> oh i didn't know that. so if resuming fails, the swap partition isn't recreated
[07:50] <Amaranth> no, we don't care about caches
[07:50] <Amaranth> we throw all of those away
[07:50] <Nubbie> isn't dd somewhat dangerous a tool to use?
[07:50] <Amaranth> Nubbie: Right, you have to remake it with swapon
[07:50] <Amaranth> It's not literally dd
[07:50] <Assid> oh wait.. i want to know about resume/hibernating
[07:51] <Assid> Amaranth: shouldnt the hibernate automatically suspend to disk ?
[07:52] <DanaG> Odd, it didn't hibernate.  It popped back to desktop.
[07:52] <Assid> the one from the logout options
[07:52] <Amaranth> Assid: hibernate means suspend-to-disk so i certainly hope so
[07:52] <cooldevices> Amaranth: actually new between-app mixer look like from vista too, and that feature is not "long before vista", it was implemented in vista 1 year ago, and not in ubuntu
[07:52] <Amaranth> DanaG: Something inhibiting suspend?
[07:52] <Assid> okay lemme try it
[07:52] <Assid> brb
[07:52] <Amaranth> cooldevices: But pulseaudio has been around for years
[07:52] <Nubbie> a kernel update sometime after feisty's release finally got sleep/hibernation working for me.
[07:52] <Amaranth> and pulseaudio is what gives that feature
[07:53] <Assid> Amaranth: do i need to add resume=... to the grub line ?
[07:53] <cooldevices> Amaranth: maybe, why it is not in ubuntu then?
[07:53] <Assid> or will it know what to do
[07:53] <Nubbie> cooldevices: you should do more research before preaching in here.
[07:53] <Amaranth> Assid: If your problem is that you can hibernate but resume just does a fresh boot then yes
[07:53] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Because it was not considered 1) done and 2) worth having
[07:53] <DanaG> !google pulpaudio.
[07:54] <Assid> last time around (2 weeks back) was when i tried hibernating.. it just sat there with the cursor on the first line
[07:54] <DanaG> s/polp/polyp
[07:54] <DanaG> the old name.
[07:54] <Assid> the system didnt go to hibernation mode (power normally blinks). But this time was constantly on
[07:54] <Nubbie> cooldevices: nearly every single new feature in vista was ripped off linux, or OSX. the only vaguely unique ideas are using free space on flash drives as swap, and the "hybrid" drive usage.
[07:54] <cooldevices> Nubbie: lol
[07:54] <Assid> nevertheless let me try again
[07:55] <Amaranth> Everyone rips off everyone
[07:55] <Assid> brb
[07:55] <Nubbie> cooldevices: it's absolutely true.
[07:55] <Amaranth> But almost all of the "exciting new features" in Vista come from somewhere else
[07:55] <Nubbie> cooldevices: give me one "new" feature from vista, and i will disprove it's originality for you.
[07:55] <cooldevices> .NET anyone? bright future of GNOME
[07:55] <Amaranth> cooldevices: and?
[07:55] <Nubbie> cooldevices: .NET is not a new feature.
[07:55] <cooldevices> NET3 is
[07:55] <DanaG> OOooooh, 40 to 50 megabytes per second.
[07:56] <Nubbie> cooldevices: is that a new version of an old idea?
[07:56]  * DanaG loves having a 7k200-200.
[07:56] <Amaranth> cooldevices: It is an alternative to Python for applications, it will not be used for core parts of the system or key libraries, just like Python isn't
[07:56] <Amaranth> DanaG: My laptop gets 42
[07:56] <cooldevices> Amaranth: d-bus?
[07:56] <DanaG> This is about 2/3 of the way through the disk, starting at the front.
[07:57] <Nubbie> cooldevices: dbus is a new feature of windows eh...
[07:57] <Amaranth> cooldevices: DBus is a more featureful and cross-desktop implementation of dcop from KDE
[07:57] <Amaranth> It replaces CORBA in GNOME
[07:57] <cooldevices> i know
[07:57] <cooldevices> and it is rewritten in mono
[07:57] <Amaranth> Err, no
[07:58] <DanaG> Nifty thingy:
[07:58] <Nubbie> cooldevices: the only reason it was rewritten in mono was to port some linux applications to windows.
[07:58] <DanaG> !info wmhdplop
[07:58] <ubotu> wmhdplop (source: wmhdplop): A hard drive activity monitor dockapp. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1 (hardy), package size 28 kB, installed size 124 kB
[07:58] <Amaranth> There is a C# version of libdbus, which is used for clients, not the dbus server
[07:58] <cooldevices> Nubbie: wrong
[07:58] <Nubbie> cooldevices: ie porting banshee to windows.
[07:58] <Amaranth> Nubbie: Nope
[07:58] <Amaranth> dbus is C
[07:59] <Amaranth> The ndesk thing is a rewrite of libdbus in C# because regular libdbus bindings are tricky to use in C# apps
[07:59] <cooldevices> you should do more research before preaching in here.
[07:59] <cooldevices> about dbus
[07:59] <Amaranth> Only C# apps use this
[07:59] <Nubbie> cooldevices: so how is dbus a windows vista feature?
[07:59] <cooldevices> it was said to  Nubbie:
[07:59] <Amaranth> Everyone else still uses libdbus, the C version
[07:59] <cooldevices> Nubbie: NET is windows feature lol
[07:59] <Amaranth> The dbus server is still written in C
[07:59] <Amaranth> .NET is an open standard created by microsoft
[07:59] <Nubbie> cooldevices: read, the server is NOT written in NET.
[08:00] <Amaranth> But it's nothing special, really
[08:00] <cooldevices> actually gnome devs have long plans for useing mono... for rewriting other apps
[08:00] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Hi, I'm a GNOME dev. You're misinformed
[08:01] <Amaranth> cooldevices: No one is rewriting working apps in C# just for the sake of doing it
[08:01] <cooldevices> well nice to meet one lol)
[08:01] <Nubbie> cooldevices: so we should be badgering windows for using C, a language written by some other software devs.
[08:01] <Amaranth> cooldevices: You can write evolution plugins in C#, iirc
[08:01] <Amaranth> and tomboy is written in C#
[08:01] <Nubbie> cooldevices: .NET is not a new feature in vista, get off that horse.
[08:01] <Amaranth> nothing else actually in GNOME has anything to do with C#
[08:02] <cooldevices> Nubbie: you horse
[08:02] <mshooshtar1> How's the Alpha5 going?
[08:02] <Nubbie> cooldevices: mono doesn't even ship with ubuntu if i recall.
[08:02] <Amaranth> Nubbie: It does
[08:02] <Amaranth> Nubbie: We have tomboy and f-spot
[08:02] <Amaranth> mshooshtar1: Ask again in 12 hours or so :)
[08:02] <Nubbie> Amaranth: ohh right. i'm still back in breezy days :P
[08:02] <Amaranth> mshooshtar1: Actually don't ask at all, just wait for the announcement
[08:02] <cooldevices> Nubbie: you should do more research before preaching in here.
[08:03] <Nubbie> cooldevices: dude, my mistakes have nothing to do with windows.
[08:03] <mshooshtar1> I should just be happy with gutsy for now
[08:03] <Amaranth> cooldevices: Calm
[08:03] <DanaG> Oooooooh, hibernate worked.
[08:03] <Assid> ok hibernation is messed up
[08:03] <Nubbie> rofl.
[08:03] <Amaranth> mshooshtar1: Yes, hardy is not ready for regular use
[08:03] <Assid> while going to hibernation i got something like usb 1-3 clear tt  .....
[08:03] <Nubbie> Assid: apparently DanaG knows what he's doing :)
[08:03] <Amaranth> alpha 5 doesn't change that
[08:03] <Assid> and a whole page full of it
[08:03] <Nubbie> Assid: yeah those error messages don't mean much. it would be nice if they could clean those up though....
[08:03] <DanaG> I had to use /dev/sda5 rather than uuid, because uuid on swap seems to change.
[08:04] <Assid> Nubbie: didnt say DanaG didnt.
[08:04] <DanaG> I also had to do that with my fstab.
[08:04] <mshooshtar1> I love playing in the blood though.
[08:04] <Amaranth> DanaG: Yes, uuid changes when you format the partition :)
[08:04] <Nubbie> Assid: i mean, look to him for help ;)
[08:04] <Assid> also when i resumed.. i got back to x.. got stuck in a white screen.. didnt go anywhere :(
[08:04] <Amaranth> anything else you want to pick my brain about? :)
[08:05] <Amaranth> Assid: nvidia?
[08:05] <Assid> yep
[08:05] <mshooshtar1> meaning bleeding edge, not some sort of psychotic thing.
[08:05] <Amaranth> Assid: blindly type in your password, you're looking at gnome-screensaver
[08:05] <Assid> oh
[08:05] <DanaG> How do you change the UUID of an HFS+ partition?
[08:05] <Nubbie> mshooshtar1: good, i was worried for a minute lol.
[08:05] <DanaG> I have two partitions with the same UUID, and it thoroughly confuses gnome-volume-manager.
[08:05] <Nubbie> DanaG: HFS+ is the devil's child.
[08:05] <Assid> and the time it took to resume was the same amt of time to restart
[08:06] <Amaranth> Assid: The problem is when you do a VT switch away from the X server the nvidia driver will no longer allocate memory for textures. Since you're using compiz every window is a texture, gnome-screensaver is a fullscreen one. Thus, fullscreen blank texture.
[08:06] <mshooshtar1> I suppose the thing I'm waiting most for is the new Xorg stuff being finished completely, it was late for Gutsy so was not implemented.
[08:06]  * DanaG has his PC as a hackintosh, but only boots OS X about once every 2 or 3 or more weeks.
[08:06] <Amaranth> mshooshtar1: What stuff in particular?
[08:06] <Assid> i see.. so if i punch in the password.. will the driver start re-allocating?
[08:06] <mshooshtar1> I was having problems with webex and desktop sharing and wanted to try that out with somebody.
[08:07] <Assid> DanaG: hackintosh didnt want to start installing on mine :|
[08:07] <Amaranth> Assid: Yes, it is only windows created while X is not active that have problems
[08:07] <Amaranth> Assid: So only that gnome-screensaver window
[08:07]  * DanaG is lucky: I have TPM, I have HPET, I have ICH7-M southbridge, I have GeForce GO 7600.
[08:07] <DanaG> s/GO/Go/
[08:07] <Assid> Amaranth: fair enough .. will try again
[08:07] <mshooshtar1> If you give me a moment, I could probably find the specific thing with xorg that was getting complaints.
[08:07] <Amaranth> Any other windows that might have popped up in the short time before you hibernated can be minimized and restored to get their texture wiped and reallocated
[08:08] <Assid> Amaranth: any drop in performance  otherwise ?
[08:08] <Nubbie> mshooshtar1: plug and play projector configuration....
[08:08] <Assid> Amaranth:  i got one of those jmicron ich9
[08:08] <Amaranth> Assid: The OpenGL sync to vblank extension is completely hosed on resume from hibernate, can't remember if that is for running applications or new ones too. That is the reason we disable sync to vblank in compiz and why you cannot enable it and do suspend
[08:09] <Assid> ok
[08:09] <Amaranth> Assid: This means OpenGL applications will either be broken or work harder rendering frames that you don't even see but that is not a huge problem
[08:10] <Assid> my main issue atm is i can never logout of x
[08:10] <Nubbie> that is a bad problem
[08:10] <Amaranth> Ah yes, that is a fun one. Usually only happens with fglrx though
[08:10] <Assid> Amaranth: considering the amount of time it takes to resume and restart.. i think i might avoid hibernation
[08:10] <Amaranth> And of course when you logout X is restarted automatically so you can't even logout
[08:11] <Amaranth> Assid: You can install uswsusp, it'll compress the image as it writes it out to disk
[08:11] <Amaranth> Since the entire process is IO bound (your HD is much slower than your CPU) this means it'll go faster because it has less to write and less to read back
[08:11] <Assid> err no .. my problem is .. i cant logout/shufdown/ restart. X just gets hung . I have to actually CTRL ALT BKSPC for X to renice which then lets the processes such as reboot/logout/shutdown to take place
[08:11] <Amaranth> But yes, hibernation is almost completely worthless unless you _really_ need to save the current state of what you have running exactly
[08:12] <Assid> Amaranth:  ^^^ - exactly.. gonna avoid it for now
[08:12] <Amaranth> suspend-to-ram is much more interesting
[08:12] <Amaranth> sleep
[08:12] <DanaG> What about alt-sysrq-k?
[08:12] <DanaG> It's more powerful than ctrl-alt-backspace.
[08:12] <Amaranth> heh
[08:13] <Assid> DanaG: point is.. im not supposed to do anything.. i click logout..it should logout
[08:13] <Amaranth> or alt-sysrq-r, vt switch, and killall Xorg
[08:13] <Assid> i shouldnt have to touch the keyboard at all
[08:13] <DanaG> Sometimes I try to resume from RAM and get a hang where even my toggle-wireless hotkey won't work.
[08:13] <DanaG> Is that a BIOS bug?
[08:13] <Assid> let me try sleep meanwhile
[08:13] <Assid> hold up
[08:13] <Amaranth> DanaG: Nope, just means it died somewhere in the kernel before it even got back to bringing userspace up
[08:14] <DanaG> The hotkey is BIOS-handled on my PC, though.
[08:14] <DanaG> I can toggle it when in GRUB.
[08:14] <Amaranth> not if your CPU is locked
[08:14] <Amaranth> you can toggle caps lock in grub too, can't when you get a kernel panic
[08:15] <Assid> yep sleep somewhat works
[08:15] <Assid> i pressed the power 2 times to finally get it up
[08:15] <Amaranth> sleep starting working perfectly for me in hardy thanks to 2.6.24
[08:16] <Amaranth> in gutsy i had to add a kernel option to make it report the OS as !Linux so I wouldn't hit the linux-specific code in my computer's acpi implementation
[08:16] <Amaranth> and it would still fail to resume about 10% of the time
[08:16] <Assid> so whats the difference between sleep eats very less power
[08:16] <Assid> anyone know how much less?
[08:16] <Amaranth> enough to stay suspending for a month or so on a full battery, iirc
[08:16] <Amaranth> well, obviously depending on how well we managed to make your system sleep and how big your battery is
[08:17] <Assid> sweet.. i should start suspending when i go to bed then
[08:17] <Amaranth> oh, you're running a desktop?
[08:17] <Assid> yep]
[08:17] <Amaranth> i'm surprised it worked then, suspend in general on desktops tends to suck
[08:18] <Amaranth> in windows too, because no one cares about it
[08:18] <Amaranth> I guess they started caring
[08:18] <Assid> worked fine here.. except i had to press the power button a few times to get it to power up
[08:18] <Assid> okay what about my X not killing itself
[08:18] <Amaranth> driver bug
[08:18] <Amaranth> no fix possible
[08:18] <Assid> :(
[08:19] <Amaranth> http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Fri/mel8-139.ogg <--Suspend to Disk: Why does it hurt so?
[08:19] <mshooshtar1> Hmm, here's one, Firefox3 and java plugins, it's prompting for a plugin even though the  plugin is installed.
[08:20] <Amaranth> that's a talk by the only guy i know of who really cares about suspend issues on linux
[08:20] <Assid> i need more bandwith
[08:20] <Amaranth> java applets? i don't even think i have that plugin installed
[08:21] <Assid> mshooshtar1: you using sun-java6 ?
[08:21] <mshooshtar1> I get the prompt to install the plugin, the plugin finder service  starts up then I pick the plugins
[08:21] <Amaranth> haven't had a reason to since i stopped using IBM's java-based dumb client emulator for some mainframe i can't remember the name of
[08:21] <mshooshtar1> I've installed the java 5 plugin
[08:21] <Assid> use icedtea instead
[08:21] <Assid> blackhawk !?
[08:21] <mshooshtar1> let me try that one.
[08:21] <Assid> Amaranth: no audio on that link
[08:22] <mshooshtar1> I've tried 5, 6 so far
[08:22] <capiira> alpha 5 is still not out right ?
[08:22] <Amaranth> Assid: works fine here, get a better player :)
[08:22] <Amaranth> capiira: Every time someone asks the release is delayed 1 hour :)
[08:22] <Assid> totem :(
[08:22]  * Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda
[08:22] <Amaranth> Assid: That's what I'm using, works just fine
[08:22] <capiira> lol
[08:22] <Assid> Amaranth: same issue yday.. now my flash audio wont work
[08:23] <Wander_w> Amaranth: So when is it coming out? :P
[08:23] <Assid> yeah audio is messed up
[08:23] <Amaranth> Assid: It's just theora/vorbis in an ogg container, this is stuff totem supports in the default install
[08:23] <Amaranth> Assid: ah you have pulseaudio running but don't have gstreamer set to use it
[08:23] <Amaranth> so it tries alsa, fails, and you get no sound
[08:23] <Assid> umm.. ok?!
[08:23] <Assid> so apt-get install gstreamer ?
[08:24] <Amaranth> no, run gstreamer-properties
[08:24] <mshooshtar1> so installing icedtea java 7 and the plugin, let's see what happens.
[08:24] <Amaranth> set the audio sink to pulseaudio
[08:24]  * Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda
[08:25] <Assid> err nothing happens
[08:26] <mshooshtar1> Yay, Java installed :)
[08:26] <Assid> pulseaudio .. my device goes unsupported
[08:26] <Assid> mshooshtar1: icedtea?
[08:26] <mshooshtar1> icedtea
[08:26] <Assid> good
[08:26] <mshooshtar1> Is that going to be turned on as the default java for install?
[08:27] <Assid> Amaranth: noppe.. doesnt work
[08:28] <Assid> great i have no audio
[08:29] <DanaG> Is Pulseaudio daemon even running?
[08:29] <Assid> yes
[08:29] <Assid> i trried restarting it
[08:29] <Assid> still didnt help
[08:30] <DanaG> how about 'pulseaudio -v' ?
[08:30] <DanaG> Oh, and make sure to do asoundconf.
[08:31] <Assid> asoundconf set-pulseaudio
[08:31] <Assid> nothing happened
[08:31] <Assid> still no sound
[08:31] <DanaG> Hmm, try aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav
[08:32] <Assid> http://assid.pastebin.com/d6ca407d
[08:35] <DanaG> AAh, missing library!
[08:35] <Assid> loaded that
[08:35] <DanaG> !find libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so
[08:36] <ubotu> File libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so found in libasound2-plugins
[08:36] <Assid> yeah already loaded that
[08:36] <Assid> now i get it to run ther play command.. but nothing happens
[08:36] <DanaG> "loaded"?
[08:36] <DanaG> oh, installed.
[08:36] <DanaG> Hmm, also open the volume control app.
[08:37] <Assid> *** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Timeout
[08:37] <Assid> ALSA snd_pcm_open error: Connection refused
[08:37] <Assid> play ao: Could not open default device: error 5
[08:37] <Assid> play soxio: Failed writing `default':
[08:37] <DanaG> Aah, server isn't running.
[08:37] <DanaG> Oh, handy hint: sudo adduser yourusername pulse-rt
[08:37] <DanaG> It'll let PulseAudio get better priority.
[08:37] <DanaG> Oh, go to a console and run pulseaudio -v    if you want debug info.
[08:40] <Assid> http://assid.pastebin.com/d4d1b6afa
[08:40] <DanaG> Do you have the module-hal instaled?
[08:41] <DanaG> I installed every single pulseaudio-related package, just to get all of it.
[08:41] <Assid> dunno let me try to install
[08:41] <Assid> cant find module-hal
[08:41] <DanaG> !info pulseaudio-module-hal
[08:41] <ubotu> pulseaudio-module-hal (source: pulseaudio): HAL device detection module for PulseAudio sound server. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 14 kB, installed size 100 kB
[08:42] <Assid> pulseaudio-module-hal is already the newest version.
[08:42] <Assid> yeah installed
[08:42] <DanaG> Odd.
[08:43] <DanaG> Oh, don't 'sudo' pulseaudio.
[08:43] <Assid> say what?
[08:44] <Assid> oh yeha my vlc doesnt want to startt video now.. just hangs
[08:44] <DanaG>  W: main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless --system is specified).
[08:45] <Assid> my terminals are starting tocrash
[08:45] <Assid> for some weird reason
[08:46] <DanaG> Try paplay -v /usr/share/sounds/login.wav
[08:47] <DanaG> Oh, what sound card?
[08:47] <DanaG> It looks like it may need some funky customizations.
[08:47] <DanaG> It's not loading properly.
[08:48] <Assid> can i go back to alsa?
[08:48] <DanaG> Anyway, I'm going to go to bed soon, but for now, perhaps the best thing to do is to UNset pulseaudoo and choose ALSA in the gnome thingy.
[08:48] <Assid> i tried rthat.. didnt help earlier
[08:48] <DanaG> asoundconf unset-pulseaudio
[08:49] <Assid> let me reboot
[08:49] <Assid> brb
[08:49] <DanaG> And sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/pulseaudio (so it won't try to start).
[08:49] <Assid> err.. need to restart.. terminals are crashing here
[08:49] <Assid> brb
[08:55] <Assid> back
[08:56] <Assid> ok alsa work
[08:59] <DanaG> Is alsa working again?
[08:59] <Assid> yep
[09:01] <Assid> err.. now vlc doesnt want to full screen
[09:01] <Assid> and now it works
[09:01] <DanaG> Good.  Now it's time for me to go to bed.  When c r i m s u n   is on (spacing to avoid a ping, for politeness), perhaps he (I think... though you can't always assume, and I don't remember) will be able to help/
[09:03] <Assid> fair enuff
[09:20] <stefanv> hey all, has anyone had any problems with the compose key under Hardy?
[09:37] <Amaranth> Assid: Sounds like your "mostly working" hibernate run corrupted some kernel memory
[09:38] <Assid> Amaranth: with referance to terminals crashing? audio going haywire?
[09:38] <Amaranth> yeah
[09:38] <Assid> btw.. why would i want to use pulse over alsa ?
[09:38] <Amaranth> because you can do fun things with it
[09:39] <Assid> err.. like ?!
[09:39] <Amaranth> like control volume of applications separately, seemlessly transfer sound output to another machine over the network and then back again, etc
[09:39] <Assid> should i try and jump back to pulse?
[09:40] <Amaranth> well, it is supposed to be the default for hardy
[09:41] <Assid> okay seem to work now
[09:42] <Assid> err the audio/video syunchronization seems off
[09:42] <Assid> yep
[09:43] <Assid> takes a while for the audio stream to hit back
[09:43] <Amaranth> yep, vlc sucks
[09:43] <Assid> btw in gstreamer-properties.. i chose  pulseaudio but the device dropdown shows unsupported
[09:45] <Assid> great now i got an audio in a loop.. why does vlc end up with this issue?
[09:46] <Amaranth> vlc's pulse support sucks
[09:46] <Amaranth> just make it use alsa
[09:46] <Amaranth> then it'll go through the alsa pulse bridge thing
[09:46] <Assid> make vlc use alsa.. or the system ?
[09:46] <Amaranth> vlc
[09:47] <Assid> err.. gotta restart x
[09:47] <Amaranth> you said you had it set to use pulse directly
[09:47] <Amaranth> oh actually it only has alsa
[09:47] <Amaranth> which is broken
[09:47] <Assid> that was in gstreamer
[09:47] <Amaranth> vlc does goofy things
[09:47] <Assid> hehe
[09:47] <Amaranth> just use totem, better anyway
[09:48] <Assid> err.. i prefer vlc.. has better deinterlacing and aspect ratio support
[09:48] <Assid> whjat do i do about this audio loop
[09:48] <Amaranth> restart pulseaudio
[09:48] <Assid> didnt help
[09:48] <Assid> terminals are crashing
[09:48] <Amaranth> ok...
[09:49] <Amaranth> you've got big problems
[09:49] <Assid> told you.. i can kill any box
[09:49] <Amaranth> sounds like a kernel bug or your memory is bad
[09:49] <Assid> memory is perfect.. checked it
[09:49] <Assid> and this only happens when ia m screwring with audio
[09:49] <Assid> brb gonna try restarting x
[09:51] <cooldevices> how to disable&uninstall pulseaudio? my games dont run or i have no sound after forcing it
[09:53] <Assid> Amaranth: had to restart :(
[09:54] <Assid> moved it back to alsa till pulse audio works better with vlc
[10:03] <Wander_w> use mplayer?
[10:04] <Assid> okay try this.. have compiz running, enable the scale plugin and bind it to a corner of the screen to show all windows (window picker).  now alt tab
[10:04] <Assid> Wander_w: ?
[10:04] <Wander_w> never mind
[10:08] <sobersabre> hi guys
[10:08] <sobersabre> I am trying to use kubuntu on amd64
[10:09] <sobersabre> and I've opened up dolphin, and tried to "add a network folder"
[10:09] <sobersabre> then I get the error:
[10:09] <sobersabre> KDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach'.
[10:09] <sobersabre> I've tried to locate this file, and it's not there.
[10:10] <sobersabre> what package is this knetattach part of ?
[10:10] <sobersabre> I tried to apt-cache search for it, and ... no avail.
[10:12] <sobersabre> so, shall I have a bug report on missing file ?
[10:12] <sobersabre> or is it a known issue ?
[10:14] <Assid> !bugs
[10:14] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
[10:15] <void^> !find /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach
[10:16] <ubotu> Package/file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach does not exist in hardy
[10:16] <sobersabre> void^: :)
[10:16] <sobersabre> it must be a part of base or network.
[10:16] <void^> !file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach
[10:17] <void^> thought there was a way to search in packages..
[10:17] <HetaUma> is alpha 5 released?
[10:17] <Wander_w> not that i know
[10:25] <henkjan> its not on the mirrors yet
[10:26] <Amaranth> The only knetattach I have on my system is in kdebase-bin
[10:39] <sobersabre> Amaranth: do you think if I use kdebase-bin's netattach it would work ?
[10:39] <sobersabre> :)
[10:39] <Amaranth> almost certainly not
[10:40] <Assid> bah jabbers messing my brains on this other box
[10:50] <sobersabre> Amaranth: you were right.
[10:53] <Assid> hrmm my laptops brightness is still wonky
[10:53] <Assid> goes up and down like a yoyo
[10:54] <cooldevices> how to register on jabber.org? i can't find a "signup" button :/
[10:54] <utopia> join #n3rd.tv
[10:56] <Assid> saywhat ?
[10:59] <muszek> cooldevices: I think you register via a jabber client
[11:00] <cooldevices> ...
[11:01] <muszek> cooldevices: yeah, I checked in pidgin just now
[11:01] <compwiz18_> cooldevices: go the pidgin account setup screen and there should be a register option of some sort
[11:02] <muszek> cooldevices: accounts -> add/edit -> add -> choose "xmpp" -> check "create this new account on the server"
[11:02] <cooldevices> yeah i found it thanks... kind of unnatural for me
[11:02] <muszek> I had exactly the same problem - been looking on jabber.org for a "sign up" page for couple minutes
[11:03] <Assid> kopete+compiz = evil!!
[11:03] <Assid> it crashes x
[11:04] <muszek> why was alpha 5 postponed?
[11:10] <cooldevices> almost all conference.jabber.org rooms are empty... and you cannot sort them by members count
[11:14] <cooldevices> it take about 30 seconds to retrieve info on user
[11:15] <muszek> you might have more luck raising these issues on jabber channels
[11:15] <cooldevices> ok
[11:35] <paulr> henkjan: is it available on some mirror?
[11:44] <shirish> does anybody how can I have a listing so it recursively goes to each folder & lists what's inside them as well.
[11:44] <Unksi> ls -r?
[11:44] <shirish> I tried "ll -rh" but that didn't get me anything.
[11:45] <shirish> Unksi: even that doesn't work.
[11:45] <Unksi> sorry, it was big R
[11:45] <Unksi> so ls -R
[11:46] <shirish> Unksi: its ls -r  * that gives the desired output.
[11:47] <Unksi> ok
[11:49] <Wander_w> or find .
[11:54] <capiira> ohh still no A5 :)
[11:57] <Wander_w> no new toys to play with in the weekend :(
[11:58] <capiira> i hope they release it soon
[11:58] <capiira> maybe in few hours or so
[11:58] <Unksi> it is released
[11:58] <Unksi> when it is ready
[11:58] <Unksi> ;)
[11:58] <capiira> buhhhh
[12:03] <capiira> but it comes through the synaptic update anyway or not ?
[12:04] <Wander_w> Unksi: Ah, the same time as DNF then?
[12:04]  * heret1c arrives
[12:05] <Unksi> Wander_w: yes ;)
[12:06] <Wander_w> great!
[12:06] <Wander_w> I'll tell hell to expect colder temperatures soon.
[12:08] <capiira> ok I can't wait anymore i'm going to dl A4, /me is impatient :D
[12:11]  * Unksi guesses that capiira notices that A5 is released when A4 is at 99%
[12:12] <Unksi> thats what usually happens to me if i happen to choose that path :D
[12:12] <capiira> :)
[12:12] <capiira> in 10 min ?
[12:12] <capiira> :D
[12:12] <Unksi> nice connection :)
[12:13] <capiira> heh normal dsl
[12:22] <capiira> anyway does ubuntu usually upgrade minor app versions like gnome 2.20.0 to 2.20.3 after release?
[12:25] <muszek> currently gutsy has 2.20.1
[12:25] <capiira> ah ok hmmmmmm
[12:26] <muszek> packages.ubuntu.com might be helpful
[12:26] <capiira> oh yeah thanks
[12:26] <capiira> actually i'm running ubuntus father :)
[12:28] <capiira> eeek gimp rc3 on gutsy
[12:28] <rsk> mark shuttleworth?
[12:28] <rsk> :)
[12:28] <capiira> :)
[12:29] <ConstyXIV> anyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?
[12:45] <heret1c> 'morning doc.
[12:45] <Assid> waddup
[12:46] <Dr_willis> Moo! :0
[12:46]  * heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/* with interest
[12:46]  * Assid goes back to trying to get ejabberd to work
[12:46] <heret1c> assid> sirian motherships galore? 8)
[12:57] <heret1c> is there any point to having laptop-mode-tools active when running on AC?
[13:00] <Dr_willis> less heat?
[13:01] <Pici> Less power consumption?
[13:01] <heret1c> h'm. whay is most wearing for a hd, hest of frequent spinup/downs?
[13:02] <heret1c> pici> power consumption isn't an issue. :)
[13:02] <heret1c> that is: heat or frequent...
[13:05]  * heret1c is aghast that the kde team haven't sorted out the "newly installed programs fail to show up in K-menu" issue/bug -YET.
[13:05] <Dr_willis> heret1c,  from the forums i read.. i doubt if it matters much. :) its proberly best to reduce both.
[13:05] <heret1c> amateurish, imo.
[13:05] <Pici> File a bug
[13:05] <Dr_willis> better yet. submit a patch
[13:05] <Dr_willis> :)
[13:06] <heret1c> doc> zapped my hd (apparently)
[13:06] <reya276> quick question, how can I load the CLI instead of the GUI, because my video drivers are not working so I can't login to the system
[13:06] <Dr_willis> heret1c,  ive seen hd takes years of abuse.. and seen new ones die in 3 days...  :)
[13:07] <Dr_willis> reya276,  disable th kdm/gdm service - or stop them from the console. is a fast way to get toit.
[13:07] <heret1c> doc> oh ah. probably true.
[13:08] <ConstyXIV> anyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?
[13:08] <reya276> ok how do I do that, because my screen is just a mess I can't see nothing
[13:08] <reya276> is there a key combination or something
[13:08] <Dr_willis> heret1c,  i had a PS blow and take out 4 hds once.. :(
[13:09] <heret1c> doc> doesn't imply that the sw should be as nice to the hw as possible. disabling dma puts much strain on the cpu, which _certainly_ produces heat.
[13:09] <Dr_willis> alt-ctrl-f1 to get to the console
[13:09] <Dr_willis> The whole heat/power thing is  gotten tobe the main limit these days. :)   Its amazing how much heat these pc's make
[13:09] <Dr_willis> My feet are nice and toasty from my current pc.
[13:10] <heret1c> reya> try ctrl-alt-backspace (but quit the proframs on the taskbar 1st)
[13:11] <heret1c> (ctb kills x)
[13:11] <reya276> I can't see nothing on my screen, so I can't quit anything or do anything, for some reason it did not install the correct ATI drivers for my graphics card
[13:11] <heret1c> ah. so you're on another comp?
[13:12] <reya276> yes
[13:12] <heret1c> ctrl-alt-backspace, then.
[13:12] <reya276> I'm on my desktop and my laptop has Hardy Alpha
[13:12] <reya276> did that, the whole thing is just frozen
[13:12] <heret1c> h'm
[13:12] <heret1c> checksum the cd?
[13:13] <heret1c> s/cd/iso
[13:14] <Q-FUNK> hello! I'm just curious how to get my gnome settings back for switching keymaps.  previously,I had this configured as ctrl+ctrl, but this no longer seems to work.
[13:14] <cooldevices> Q-FUNK: its broken, just recheck settings
[13:16] <Q-FUNK> cooldevices: recheck what?
[13:16] <Q-FUNK> if you mean the control panel option, it's gone
[13:18] <cooldevices> keyboard layout options? "both ctrl keys together change layout" its here for me
[13:18] <cooldevices> try clean install of alpha5
[13:19] <cooldevices> when its up
[13:19] <reya276> oh re-installing
[13:20] <cooldevices> if no one will up with better idea like reconfiguring applet, or editing xorg for manual keyb switching
[13:21] <roman_> is the alpha5 released?
[13:21] <cooldevices> actually gnome applet not the only wait to setup keyboard
[13:21] <cooldevices> way
[13:26] <cooldevices> Q-FUNK: man setxkbmap
[13:33] <heret1c> oh ah
[13:36] <heret1c> sbdy remind me - will it be possible to upgrade to HH release 1 from the alpha/beta versions?
[13:37] <Dr_willis> You should always be able to upgrade  that way - i think
[13:37] <Dr_willis> Thats part of the apeal of the apt-get packing system :)
[13:37] <heret1c> I only have one box - the dell lappy. can't afford the sort of hurdle I just experienced.
[13:38] <Dr_willis> I dont thinki could function with just 1 pc. :)
[13:38] <Pici> !final
[13:38] <ubotu> If you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.
[13:38] <heret1c> readng lauchpad, the problem has a) addected quite a few ppl ad b) been known for quite some time.
[13:39] <heret1c> affected, even.
[13:41] <Assid> a5 out?
[13:42] <heret1c> ubotu> alpha5
[13:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:43] <heret1c> ubotu> doodlysquat
[13:43] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about doodlysquat - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:43] <heret1c> yay.
[13:44] <Pici> !botabuse | heret1c
[13:44] <ubotu> heret1c: Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids.
[13:46]  * heret1c sits corrected. sort of.
[13:48] <Assid> ahahaha. check this out
[13:48] <Assid> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/194347
[13:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194347 in gnome-power-manager "[Hardy a4] Default wallpaper ugly" [Undecided,New]
[13:48] <Assid> now thats called a bug
[13:49] <heret1c> pici> slities in times of little conversation/a lullhould be a subparagraph yielding room for whmsicalities when traffic is slow, dontcha think? :)
[13:49] <Pici> Why is that in GPM?
[13:49] <rsk> Binary package hint: gnome-power-manager
[13:49] <rsk> :D
[13:49] <heret1c> erk
[13:49] <Pici> heret1c: Not when I see it on every #ubuntu channel. Anyway, its OT.
[13:50] <heret1c> pici> ok.
[13:51] <Assid> hahaha.. anyone here using "gossip" ?
[13:51] <Assid> go to edit > personal details .. edit the birthday section
[13:51] <Assid> and see the buttons there "gtk-cancel gtk-ok"
[14:00] <cooldevices> Assid: rofl lmfao
[14:01] <cooldevices> about bug
[14:02] <slytherin> Does anyone know how to listen to FM radio in rhythmbox?
[14:02] <Dr_willis> You got a fm tuner card?
[14:02] <Dr_willis> or are you refering to fm internet stations?
[14:02] <slytherin> Dr_willis: tuner card
[14:03] <Dr_willis> I dont recall seeing of the media players supporting those. But i havent had a FM tuner card in years. :)
[14:03] <Dr_willis> !find radio
[14:03]  * heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 and has a revelaton (the &%¤"# kernel %#%¤#s Æknew*.
[14:03] <ubotu> Found: gkrellm-radio, gnomeradio, gnomoradio, gradio, hamradiomenus (and 14 others)
[14:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]
[14:03] <heret1c> medium!!!!!!!!
[14:04]  * Dr_willis considers it low.
[14:04] <Dr_willis> :)
[14:04] <slytherin> Dr_willis: There is a plugin in rhythmbox. It is available by default. Only thing is that plugin doesn't have any UI. You have to manually edit rhythmdb.xml
[14:04] <Dr_willis> slytherin,  that would make it a bit harder.
[14:05] <Dr_willis> I just recall my FM tuner - dident tune in  worth a *$*@ :)
[14:05] <heret1c> doc> tell taht to those in "3rd world" countries with old hw. :/
[14:05] <Dr_willis> heret1c,  i will.
[14:05] <Dr_willis> heret1c,  actually i find withmy old hardware its not an issue.
[14:05] <Dr_willis> normally its the newer stuff that has the issues
[14:05] <slytherin> With linux, old hardware is not generally an issue
[14:06] <rsk> no, the kernel runs on aynthing
[14:07] <rsk> but gnome is heavy :)
[14:07] <heret1c> look up mr. thorvalds' reason to write linux in the 1st place. 286es!
[14:07] <Dr_willis> its highly likely its a kernel bug. that the ubuntu guys dont have  the manpower to work on.
[14:07] <Dr_willis> z80 rules!
[14:07] <heret1c> abacusses!
[14:08]  * Dr_willis whips out his huge SlideRule!
[14:09] <ConstyXIV> is anyone using the atheros 5007 (eee wireless) madwifi driver in hardy?
[14:10] <slytherin> Dr_willis: http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2007/05/04/fm-radio-in-rhythmbox/
[14:11] <Dr_willis> i aint about to dig out my 10+ yr old fm tuner card to test it. :)
[14:11] <Wander_w> heret1c: 386es, he wanted to use the new 32bit capabilities of that processor
[14:11] <Dr_willis> heh heh.
[14:12] <heret1c> wander_w> righty. think my point is made.
[14:12] <slytherin> anyway, I will install the sweet little app called gnomeradio
[14:13] <Wander_w> But you'd have a _very_ hard time getting a recent kernel to run on a 386
[14:13]  * heret1c observes that a modern desktop background piccy would take 50% pf available RAM
[14:13] <Wander_w> (I know, I've tried!)
[14:14] <cooldevices> my driver dosnt detect radio device on my tv tuner
[14:15] <Wander_w> 2 MB of RAM is just a *bit* of a squeeze for linux (it worked when I removed all the filesystems and all the IDE drivers... it was a bit useless in that state though..)
[14:18] <heret1c> arrrgh. the attitude displayed by developers in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 is DESPICABLE. Roman-emperor-style modus operandi.
[14:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]
[14:34] <ccooke> heret1c: ... That's a good example of a bug with very confused *reporters*
[14:34] <ccooke> heret1c: I see one comment from a developer that was a bit short, which was apologised for and expanded later
[14:35] <ccooke> the rest of it seems to be people who don't understand the issue assuming that the bug affects them
[14:36] <heret1c> ccooke> think so? are the developers helpgul in asking for info they need? do they ALL have scsi-disks (the dev.s) so the problem is irrelevant to them?!
[14:36] <heret1c>  < 4MB/s transferrate is nott an assumption. (!)
[14:37] <ccooke> heret1c: the devs stated exactly why it was too late to fix in feisty, said they *wanted* to fix it in gutsy and asked for the relevant data that would *help* them fix it.
[14:38] <ConstyXIV> is there some sort of RSS feed/mailing list for alpha/beta releases?
[14:38] <ccooke> (also: it's not *EVERY* pata disk, you know. I run two machines at home that have pata disks - one a media server - and they're fine on both gutsy and feisty.
[14:39] <heret1c> ccooke> I've a dell latitude D500 with a bof standard intel chipset.
[14:39] <ccooke> heret1c: After the dev request for *gutsy* data, you get people saying "here's some feisty data!" and "I'm affected to, my drive won't enable DMA <fx: includes paste of hdparm output showing that the drive is in udma2 mode>"
[14:40] <heret1c> hdparm -Tt is hdparm -Tt.
[14:41] <cooldevices> heret1c: youre talking about your issue for some days here, did you filed a bug?
[14:41] <heret1c> ccooke> mind u, I "upgraded" to HH alpha 4 yaking for granted the problem would be sorted out by then. result: fried HD.
[14:41] <fursund> hello
[14:42] <heret1c> cooldev> pointless.
[14:42] <ccooke> heret1c: you installed an alpha. That's an unfortunate but not surprising effect.
[14:42] <fursund> am I the only one experiencing problems with wine? it segfaults everytime I run an exe or even winecfg
[14:42] <ccooke> heret1c: more to the point... what's the output of hdparm -i /dev/sda (or whatever your drive is?)
[14:43] <heret1c> ccooke> look up. hd's toast/fubar.
[14:43] <ccooke> heret1c: hdparm -Tt tells you the *speed* of reading. No matter the results, it does *NOT* tell you that you have the bug as reported.
[14:43] <ccooke> ... *hardware* failure?
[14:43] <ccooke> Okay, that won't be hardy.
[14:43] <ccooke> It's much, *much* more likely that your drive was already on the way out
[14:44] <nonnii> could someone who can log in to launchpad go and comment to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/48497 that they should not depend on both bitstream vera AND dejavu but one or the other. If you have to install dejavu, isn't it needless to install bitstream vera also?
[14:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 48497 in mplayer "using bitsream vera causes incorrect subtitles for many languages" [Medium,Fix released]
[14:44] <heret1c> not so. abysmally low transfer rates are caused by disabled dmain most cases.
[14:45] <cooldevices> (07:42:07 PM) heret1c: cooldev> pointless. --- do you think what you doing now here for some days have a more point than filing a bug?
[14:45] <ccooke> heret1c: what you're saying is: "My disk was slow, so there's no *way* that the fact that it later *catastrophically failed* could be rekated"
[14:46] <heret1c> cooldev> seeing umpteen ppl have reported it and nothing have been done - why should I waste my time with filing bug reports which will be ignored? hence; pointless.
[14:47] <heret1c> bbl. out to buy new hd.
[14:47] <ccooke> heret1c: now, I wasn't actually suggesting that slow disk IO was a sign of the disk dying - even though that *IS* a common side effect. However, I've not seen a Linux kernel actually destroy a hard disk in around ten *years*.
[14:47] <ccooke> heret1c: that bug report was *not* ignored
[14:47] <cooldevices> heret1c: bug is not closed yet, and as ccooke said it is becuase devs required data, YOU may provide this data
[14:48] <fursund> no one have the wine problem :(
[14:48] <fursund> ?
[14:48]  * ccooke posts to the bug report to help clarify things
[14:48] <flipstar> fursund: you might try an older wine version ..
[14:48] <Wander_w> fursund: use plenty of water on the winestains
[14:49] <ccooke> ... Drat. work firefox. Now I'll have to remember my password :-)
[14:49] <fursund> flipstar, how would I do that?
[14:49] <flipstar> just download it from winehq
[14:49] <flipstar> im using 0.9.52
[14:49] <cooldevices> !ot | Wander_w
[14:49] <ubotu> Wander_w: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[14:50] <fursund> ok thanks!
[14:52] <Wander_w> cooldevices: ok ok; so when is Alpha 5 coming out?
[14:52] <cooldevices> today!
[14:52] <Wander_w> why not yesterday?
[14:52] <flipstar> was delayed
[14:52] <Wander_w> why?
[14:53] <Wander_w> (honest question, I want to know)
[14:53] <cooldevices> some problems should be fixed to make it nice alpha 5!
[14:54] <flipstar> "we anticipate that the Alpha 5 release will be delayed until Friday, February
[14:54] <flipstar> 22 to allow time for the ISO images to be tested appropriately."
[14:54] <ccooke> quick check: I'm currently absolutely certain that the DMA bug heret1c is complaining of cannot be fixed for Gutsy - the information is too late.
[14:54] <Wander_w> where do the devs hang out then?
[14:54] <ccooke> Anyone want to correct me on that?
[15:11] <fursund> thanks flipstar it is working now
[15:11] <fursund> strangely it is working fine with the newest version from winehq
[15:26] <ConstyXIV> is WPA2 broken right now?
[15:26] <DanaG> Heh:   PackageKit allows to perform simple software management tasks over a DBus interface: refreshing the cash, updating, installing and removing software packages. This software is still in an early development stage and should be considered experimental.
[15:27] <Pici> I wish someone would update my cash.
[15:29] <DanaG> You got what I was saying 'heh' about.
[15:29] <DanaG> Heh.
[15:31] <paulr> flipstar: where did you read that?
[15:32] <flipstar> mailing list
[15:33] <paulr> I chose 'yesterday' as a day to move from gentoo to ubuntu ;p
[15:33] <paulr> doh :)
[15:35] <paulr> when using the installer for a new server install, is it possible to choose packages at install time? (or just the overall 'tasks' then tweak later)
[15:42] <heret1c> back
[15:42]  * heret1c reads backlog
[15:48] <paulr> mm, if alpha5 were to get released today, what time would it normally hit mirrors? ;p
[15:48] <heret1c> cooldev> I'll provide the data if u pay for rmf-reading the hd.
[15:49] <flipstar> paulr: torrent is probably faster for the first time
[15:51] <paulr> I downloaded server cd of alpha 4 yesterday, having found it error'd during install and need to install again, i'm thinking about whether to just use the desktop cd ;p
[15:51] <paulr> feels kinda harsh on mirrors to download 2 cd's then download an upgrade in the space of 4 hours ;p
[16:02] <h3sp4wn_> They should provide xdelta's perhaps someone does
[16:02] <Assid> you guys using emerald bychance?
[16:03] <h3sp4wn_> I am not using anything other than cli atm - wondering if there is a sane method for using firefox 32 bit with ubuntu64 yet
[16:03] <emet> I'm worried about Firefox
[16:03] <h3sp4wn_> Why ?
[16:04] <emet> it looks like it will release an RC, Mid-March, does that mean the Firefox coming with Hardy will be an RC?
[16:04] <h3sp4wn_> Dunno they will be 300MB+ of updates within a month anyway
[16:04] <h3sp4wn_> (Or ideally they will extend the release to June)
[16:05] <emet> just for firefox? :o
[16:05] <h3sp4wn_> Dunno they did with dapper
[16:05]  * hydrogen has yet to understand the firefox hype
[16:05] <emet> yes that's because multiple systems in dapper weren't ready yet
[16:05] <emet> dapper was a huge update
[16:05] <emet> imo much bigger then hardy will be
[16:05] <h3sp4wn_> No but quality control is important
[16:06] <h3sp4wn_> (If an LTS wants to be on the same level as RHEL or Solaris)
[16:06] <emet> well they could release a 8.04 with firefox RC and an 8.04.1 with firefox final or something
[16:06] <ffm> any idea how I can check for incompatability with graphics cards? I cannot find the testing release notes...
[16:06] <h3sp4wn_> What is wrong with actually having a working release
[16:07] <emet> I don't think it's right to delay a release over one application
[16:07] <h3sp4wn_> I think 8 months is a more sane time limit for a higher quality release
[16:07] <Assid> hrmm thinking if i should start using emarald again
[16:07] <emet> true
[16:08] <emet> OOo 2.4 might be ready by then too
[16:08] <h3sp4wn_> But the latest and greatest of everything is not necessarily a road to stability
[16:09] <emet> imo releasing hardy with firefox 2 would be pretty lame
[16:10] <h3sp4wn_> It wouldn't bother me really - I use firefox but I think konqueror 4 is about the best
[16:10] <emet> I would rather they bundle Firefox 3 RC1 if they had to
[16:10] <h3sp4wn_> just don't like the messing with 2 releases - dunno why kde4 can not just conflict with kde3
[16:10] <emet> actually gutsy bundled The GIMP 2.4 RC
[16:10] <emet> and some update actually changed it to The GIMP 2.4 proper
[16:10] <emet> after release
[16:11] <h3sp4wn_> And what if that changed some interfaces
[16:11] <emet> an RC shouldn't do that
[16:11] <h3sp4wn_> That is exactly the stuff people shouldn't do with a stable release
[16:11] <emet> RC is near-final release
[16:11] <h3sp4wn_> Theoretically - should be manually updated without changing the version number
[16:11] <h3sp4wn_> and checking no interfaces change
[16:13] <emet> yes
[16:14] <Mark_Milliman> So what's the story with Alpha 5?
[16:15] <emet> suppose to come out today
[16:15] <h3sp4wn_> RHEL might not be as pleasant to use but the fact they still support RHEL3 (and fix stuff that is broken properly) is why people use it
[16:15] <emet> do they really? I thought they dropped support for RHEL3
[16:15] <ffm> Are there any testing release notes yet?
[16:16] <emet> yes
[16:16] <emet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[16:17] <ffm> emet: thank you.
[16:17] <emet> the big feature this alpha is the windows installer
[16:17] <mrcheeks> Hello guys, I have a terrible issue with hardy I guess :p, I am unable to login. I think it's a bash issue
[16:18] <mrcheeks> After a sudo apt-get upgrade I started experiencing that error
[16:18] <h3sp4wn_> emet: 7 years per release (and it was released in 2003 so that is until 2010)
[16:18] <reya276> emet: windows installer?
[16:18] <reya276> huh
[16:19] <emet> reya276, yeah did you ever try to put in an ubuntu disc on a windows machine?
[16:20] <emet> reya276, now when you do it pops up a windows installer that lets you install ubuntu from within windows
[16:20] <paulr> btw, is LTSP install broken in alpha 4?
[16:20] <h3sp4wn_> So more importantly does the new unreal tournament game still have a Linux installer in the box ?
[16:21] <mrcheeks> Anyone experiencing the same issue I have? I can't log in from a terminal or gdm
[16:21] <reya276> ooh, that does not sound good, but I hope they get that to work well, I would never try it though, Why use windows if you are using Ubuntu
[16:22] <mikedep333> h3sp4wn_: no, I think they still haven't released it yet
[16:23] <mikedep333> or of they did, it's a separate download
[16:23] <ignus> hi, can anyone here tell me how to upgrade kubuntu to 8.04 alpha?
[16:23] <h3sp4wn_> mikedep333: Thats annoying - I bought all those games because they supported Linux properly
[16:23] <mikedep333> ignus: I think it is update-manager -d in regular ubuntu
[16:24] <mikedep333> maybe you can install the package update-manager or whatever
[16:24] <mikedep333> even though it is GTK
[16:24] <heret1c> ignus> from?
[16:24] <ignus> mikedep333: doesnt seem to work the same in kubuntu
[16:24] <ignus> heret1c: kubuntu 7.10
[16:24] <mikedep333> isn't there the dist-upgrade command or something?
[16:24] <ignus> yeah
[16:24] <mikedep333> h3sp4wn_: yeah, I know
[16:24] <ignus> i think so
[16:24] <ignus> donno what it is
[16:24] <h3sp4wn_> I would use aptitude
[16:25] <ignus> do you know what the command is?
[16:25] <h3sp4wn_> change sources.list first
[16:25] <mikedep333> yeah
[16:25] <h3sp4wn_> s/gutsy/hardy
[16:25] <ignus> just switch the word in all the lines?
[16:25] <h3sp4wn_> install aptitude from hardy
[16:25] <h3sp4wn_> ignus: yep
[16:26] <mikedep333> ignus: just making sure, but you know it is not a good idea to use hardy alpha as your primary OS, right?
[16:26] <h3sp4wn_> aptitude update && aptitude install aptitude && aptitude full-upgrade
[16:26] <ignus> is there a way to do that with sed? :P
[16:26] <h3sp4wn_> ignus: man sed (I have given you most of it)
[16:26] <ignus> mikedep333: tihs is just a test box :)
[16:26] <leon_pegg> is hardy going to have apt-torrent ?
[16:26] <mikedep333> ok, good :)
[16:27] <mikedep333> leon_pegg: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=apt-torrent&searchon=names&suite=hardy&section=all
[16:28] <mikedep333> doesn't look like it
[16:28] <leon_pegg> thanks mike
[16:28] <mikedep333> np
[16:28] <h3sp4wn_> ignus: sudo perl -pi.bak -e 's/gutsy/hardy/i' /etc/apt/sources.list
[16:28] <Assid> err.. whats this guy running on the right side ?http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/73210-2.jpg
[16:28] <h3sp4wn_> (I don't ever use sed)
[16:29] <ignus> that you all for your help!
[16:29] <mikedep333> np
[16:30] <ignus> kubuntu 8.04 still uses kde3 as its default yeah?
[16:30] <h3sp4wn_> Yep you can have kde4 though
[16:30] <h3sp4wn_> But it doesn't seem quite right yet for me yet
[16:31] <ignus> yeah
[16:31] <cooldevices> there is 2 kubuntu versions
[16:31] <leon_pegg> just noticed it does have debtorrent tho
[16:31] <ignus> 250 megs to d/l!!!
[16:31] <h3sp4wn_> cooldevices: There has been that hackery before at one point
[16:33] <cooldevices> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ here you can see kubuntu and kubuntu-kde4
[16:34] <h3sp4wn_> Interesting - I wonder if its less messed up if I use the kde4 cd
[16:36] <leon_pegg> h3sp no kde4 cd is just as bad
[16:36] <mikedep333> h3sp4wn_: yeah, KDE4 on gutsy is horrendous
[16:36] <mikedep333> whether you use the CD or the PPA repo
[16:37] <h3sp4wn_> Is there a distro with a reasonably decent kde4 then
[16:37] <h3sp4wn_> suse ? fedora ?
[16:38] <mikedep333> I doubt there is
[16:38] <cooldevices> its not distro problem lol
[16:38] <hydrogen> suse puts a lot of energy into it and theirs works fairly nicely
[16:38] <h3sp4wn_> Its pretty nice on my sparc
[16:38] <hydrogen> but you have to use suse...
[16:38] <hydrogen> eww
[16:38] <h3sp4wn_> (With solaris express)
[16:38] <hydrogen> it's working fine for me here
[16:38] <h3sp4wn_> and a boatload of patches -  but there is no kde 3 to get in the way
[16:38] <hydrogen> but fine for me involves the random crash :)
[16:39] <cooldevices> i tried opensuse 11 a2 installer, it segfaults on start :/
[16:40] <cooldevices> (09:38:53 PM) hydrogen: but fine for me involves the random crash :) - LOL
[16:40] <mikedep333> it makes windows users feel at home
[16:40] <h3sp4wn_> Can I have a 32 bit firefox yet with ubunty 64
[16:40] <cooldevices> yes
[16:41] <h3sp4wn_> from the repos and no messing around
[16:48] <cooldevices> h3sp4wn_: tutorials look like hackage involved
[16:48] <ffm> will ubuntu hardy be kept in sync with the trunk FF builds?
[16:48] <ffm> until release?
[16:49] <cooldevices> it have now 3.0b3, and on fedora i seen 3.0b4pre week ago, does it answer your question?
[17:12] <Laney> Erm, is anyone else having a problem with firefox having huge icons and text? http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/firefox-huge.png
[17:13] <manchicken> Is wine known to be crashing under Hardy?
[17:17] <flipstar> manchicken: yep i heard so
[17:17] <flipstar> manchicken: you could try to download an newer/older version of wine from wineh
[17:17] <flipstar> *winehq
[17:20] <Kuni> has anyone here tried the "install in windows" option?
[17:24] <Fritzel> has a package for wine 0.9.56 been released at this point in time?
[17:24] <Fritzel> I'd check myself but I'm in windows at the moment
[17:27] <Kuni> fritzel: not that I know of, but I'm not exactly an expert, so...
[17:28] <Fritzel> fair enough
[17:28] <Kuni> I did check proposed and backports, too, nothing there
[17:29] <manchicken> Kuni: What now?  Install in Windows?  I don't have Windows...
[17:30] <Fritzel> alright thank you, it's been released on wine's site I'm tempted to compile it but I don't know how that affects package management, as once it's released for ubuntu I would much prefer to work with the package
[17:30] <Kuni> Apparently the alpha 5 disc can install and in windows using wubi
[17:30] <Kuni> *and run in
[17:30] <Kuni> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[17:30] <Kuni> unfortunately the link to the iso is dead
[17:30] <Fritzel> 4 was released?
[17:30] <Fritzel> 5?
[17:31] <Kuni> today, supposedly
[17:31] <Fritzel> -nod- I'd be really curious how well that is handled as well
[17:31] <Kuni> I was hoping to try it, but like I said, isos are either not up or not visible.
[17:32] <Kuni> also, does anyone know if the awn-core-applets are going to make it into the repos? I know awn itself has.
[17:35] <rockets> is alpha 5 actually coming today?
[17:35] <Kuni> well, the page is up, and it was supposed to come yesterday.
[17:36] <Kuni> so far I haven't gotten any dramatic updates through update manager, though I don't know if that would be normal or if they come gradually (I'm on Alpha 4)?
[17:36] <mphill> well the did do the feature freeze so i think packages come in slower now
[17:37] <rockets> what page is up?
[17:37] <Kuni> rockets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[17:37] <rockets> Kuni,
[17:37] <rockets> ah
[17:38] <Kuni> :)
[17:38] <rockets> Kuni, ok, usually they update the HardyReleaseSchedule page with a link
[17:38] <rockets> but they didn't.
[17:39] <Kuni> ah
[17:39] <rockets> Kuni, the download links go nowhere.
[17:39] <rockets> guess ill have to wait.
[17:39] <Kuni> yeah, I know, sucks doesn't it?
[17:39] <Kuni> rockets, they do have the link on the main hardy page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/
[17:40] <rockets> Kuni, the download links go nowhere.
[17:40] <Kuni> yeah
[17:40] <Kuni> the directory isn't even there yet.
[17:41] <rockets> wait, theyre not actually going to leave firefox 3 beta 3 as the default browser are they?
[17:41] <rockets> tell me thats just for alpha 5
[17:41] <wastrel> i need to update my hardy