[06:00] <mattis> It's possible to develop applets for the budgie panels, with example code for C/Vala/Python
[06:00] <mattis> Is it possible to develop applets for the Raven sidebar in a similar manner?
[06:00] <mattis> Or does this require recompiling all of Raven/etc


[00:01] <saketh> hi
[00:01] <saketh> how do i assign a bug in the docs to myself?
[00:01] <nhandler> saketh: Do you have a Launchpad account?
[00:01] <saketh> yes
[00:02] <nhandler> saketh: Then just click the arrow next to the package name, and there will be an option to change the assignee
[00:02] <saketh> ok
[00:02] <saketh> tahnx
[00:05] <saketh> i still dont get how to change the assignee...
[00:05] <saketh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs
[00:05] <saketh> i am here
[00:06] <DougieRichardson> ok, pick a bug
[00:06] <saketh> Ubuntu is mentioned in the xubuntu-doc
[00:06] <saketh> s
[00:11] <saketh> hello?
[00:11] <saketh> oh also... does anyone know what time the meeting is in pacific time?
[00:12] <philip_> you clicked the down arrow under the "Assigned to" in the navbar?
[00:13] <saketh> ummm no
[00:13] <philip_> after choosing a bug
[00:14] <saketh> mhm
[00:16] <philip_> regarding meeting time, click the date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[00:17] <nhandler> It would be 10 am
[00:17] <saketh> ok
[00:17] <saketh> wait...
[00:17] <nhandler> I mean 12
[00:17] <saketh> ok
[00:17] <saketh> i can show up then...
[00:22] <philip_> cool
[00:24] <saketh> so... about the bugs...
[00:25] <saketh> is it ok if i assign a bug to myself and it has already been assigned to my mentor?
[00:30] <mdke> DougieRichardson: ok, any progress?
[00:31] <DougieRichardson> mdke: Yes I think we're all moving in the right direction, I get the impression that other groups, such as MOTU have expressed similar concerns
[00:32] <mdke> ok
[00:32] <DougieRichardson> I spoke about the page we discussed earlier
[00:33] <DougieRichardson> What they would like is to have materials suited to learning available and have us produce material to train our new members'
[00:34] <DougieRichardson> I don't feel there's a conflict here having spoken to them, certainly not intentionally.
[00:34] <mdke> we need to make a distinction between what they have planned for users, and what they have planned for new contributors
[00:34] <mdke> my concern is mainly about users, because I'm worried that having more than one website for users to learn about Ubuntu is counterproductive
[00:34] <DougieRichardson> OK, can you eleborate on what you see being an issue when it comes to what they have planned for users?
[00:35] <mdke> it's an extra place to search, and confusing in terms of where they should be looking for information
[00:35] <mdke> if there is a better way to teach users, I'd much rather try and explore what we should be doing better on help.ubuntu.com
[00:36] <mdke> because our documentation really is about teaching users
[00:37] <mdke> in terms of contributors, a similar issue arises - we already have problems with giving clear information, so I personally would like to see us working on ensuring that the wiki pages are top notch and welcoming
[00:37] <DougieRichardson> I think its more linking to our documentation wherever possible
[00:37] <mdke> again, another website seems like it would introduce confusion
[00:37] <DougieRichardson> I agree that the wiki pages are essential but I suspect that this is going to be a big project that might be the sort of thing attracting searches before us.
[00:38] <mdke> if it's a software issue, I'd really like to have explained to me what moodle gives that the wiki can't - I'd just like to see some justification
[00:38] <mdke> going into these types of issues in detail will always reveal whether there is a genuine need for a project, or whether an existing project simply needs to be improved
[00:39] <DougieRichardson> I can see your point
[00:39] <mdke> e.g., to take your last point, if we're not attracting searches, we should find out why not, and fix it
[00:40] <DougieRichardson> They're very much in the design phase though so we should probably invest in their meetings. There are some very good people getting involved in their project
[00:40] <mdke> I'm trying not to make a decision for myself whether the project is really going to add value or not, because I don't feel that I'm being well informed enough about the pros and cons
[00:41] <DougieRichardson> OK well, why don't we attend their next meeting and discuss it with them
[00:41] <mdke> good idea
[00:41] <mdke> a spec would be kind of a good way to play concerns like these out, because then you can see what problem the project is trying to solve, and how it intends to resolve concerns like mine (and other people's)
[00:42] <DougieRichardson> I mean, its likely I'll be involved in their project any way because the desktop training team is investing in it - dinda and sabdfl are interested
[00:43] <DougieRichardson> I agree a spec would have been best but I think they're going to push ahead regardless - bodhi is paying for the server
[00:43] <mdke> I think the structure of the idea is what requires thought
[00:44] <mdke> the idea is basically that attracting introducing people to the community should be done through a specific site and a specific team
[00:44] <mdke> that's a completely new concept for the community, I think - to date different areas have worked on attracting contributors through their team pages on the wiki
[00:44] <mdke> I'm not totally against the idea, but I'd really like to see it better rationalised
[00:45] <DougieRichardson> attracting contribution is only a part of what they envisage - they want to centralise all Ubuntu learning subjects
[00:45] <mdke> you mean re-centralise
[00:46] <DougieRichardson> where are they currently centralised?
[00:46] <mdke> that used to be the role of wiki.ubuntu.com
[00:46] <mdke> we moved user help out of there because we thought (after a very detailed and carefully discussed spec) that it was right to separate them
[00:47] <DougieRichardson> Moodle does offer some advantages for teaching in a distributed environment. If you want to see a good example of it then have a look at Openlearn
[00:47] <mdke> I suppose I have a kind of instinctive reaction where I see something that hasn't gone through much community wide discussion
[00:47] <mdke> and is steaming ahead anway
[00:47] <DougieRichardson> http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/
[00:48] <DougieRichardson> Matthew, I appreciate that and I feel that some of this has not been gone about in the correct way but the intention is good. I think the documentation team would be better served by getting involved in this initiative now where we can help shape it
[00:49] <DougieRichardson> mdke: Can I bring txwikinger in on this
[00:49] <txwikinger> hi folks
[00:50] <mdke> sure
[00:50] <mdke> hi txwikinger
[00:50] <txwikinger> hi mdke
[00:50] <txwikinger> You were wondering earlier what moodle can bring
[00:50] <txwikinger> moodle is bascially a virtual learning environment
[00:51] <txwikinger> It is used by Universities, e.g. Open University uses it very successful
[00:51] <txwikinger> und more and more also by Secondary Schools and Colleges
[00:51] <txwikinger> You allows you to bring in interactivity
[00:52] <mdke> what sort of interactivity?
[00:52] <txwikinger> You can have activities where the stuff that is learned can be practiced with tasks
[00:52] <txwikinger> you can have quizzes for self-assessment about what you have learned
[00:52] <txwikinger> you can redo those quizzes to see if you have learned more
[00:53] <txwikinger> you can mix in all kinds of resources
[00:53] <mdke> what would it bring in terms of user help?
[00:53] <txwikinger> and if you have a group learning together, you can have a lot of group activities too
[00:54] <txwikinger> the progress what people do can be seen by tutors
[00:54] <txwikinger> so they can mentor the people learning more eficiently
[00:54] <txwikinger> you bascially can have course instructors that help the learning
[00:55] <mdke> right
[00:55] <txwikinger> Fundamentally moodle is getting closer and closer to bring a online classroom to the students at home
[00:56] <txwikinger> like distance learning just a lot more directly interactive
[00:56] <txwikinger> and with automatic tools for students to assess their progress themselves
[00:56] <txwikinger> those self-assessment they can then share with the course instructors
[00:56] <txwikinger> so they can easier see where the particular student has problems
[00:57] <txwikinger> It is not anything new
[00:57] <txwikinger> it is a new way of presenting the material that is available or can be used outside moodle too
[00:57] <txwikinger> and I platform for a"dialogue of learning"
[00:59] <txwikinger> As a distance learnign lecturer I have experienced that most students need this interactivity and also contact with other students and a mentor or lecturer in order to learn efficiently
[00:59] <txwikinger> Sorry, I didn't want to hog the conversation like that, just wanted to explain a little what opportunities moodle can bring
[00:59] <mdke> that's fine, thanks for the detailed explanation
[00:59] <txwikinger> no problem
[01:00] <mdke> but if moodle provides these features, what would be the point in keeping wikis around at all?
[01:00] <txwikinger> a wiki is very good for collaboration
[01:00] <mdke> but moodle seems to be as well
[01:01] <txwikinger> well.. moodle has a wiki feature as well
[01:01] <txwikinger> but that is really for places where you dont want to set up another wiki
[01:01] <txwikinger> or need the particular moderating
[01:01] <txwikinger> moodle is more a communication plaform that emulates learning as if you were in the same room
[01:02] <txwikinger> and gives you a structure you would have in a real school
[01:02] <mdke> it's an advanced content management system, as you've described it
[01:02] <mdke> right?
[01:03] <txwikinger> yes, in some way
[01:03] <txwikinger> A specialised contant management system or learning
[01:03] <txwikinger> content
[01:03] <mdke> what I have trouble with is the concept of maintaining two content management systems with a similar, or overlapping, purpose
[01:03] <mdke> or at the very least, overlapping content
[01:04] <txwikinger> I understand your concern
[01:04] <mdke> that strikes me as being beyond the reach of most teams around
[01:04] <mdke> so the question I automatically ask when something like this comes up
[01:05] <mdke> is (a) can our existing tools achieve the stated purpose well enough, or (b) can the new tool achieve all our purposes?
[01:05] <DougieRichardson> I think there is a potential for overlap but that if the teams work together this can be effectively managed and there is a benefit to us in providing an environment to support training our own students
[01:05] <mdke> obviously there will always be a question of dgree
[01:05] <mdke> but the extent to which those questions can be answered with a positive is to weigh up against the difficulties of maintaining two resources
[01:06] <txwikinger> I don't think that moodle would replace wikis
[01:06] <txwikinger> however, there is no problem to use the existing wiki as one of the resources for moodle
[01:06] <mdke> DougieRichardson: I'm a bit more cynical than you are about what can be effectively achieved though; and I'm not that convinced that we can't support our new contributors really well by improving the wiki resources that we have
[01:07] <txwikinger> For me, a wiki is very good for people working together on something
[01:07] <txwikinger> However, it is not a very good or efficient medium for people to learn
[01:07] <txwikinger> moodle is particularly build for the purpose of making it easy for people to learn something
[01:08] <mdke> txwikinger: I absolutely accept that, of course
[01:08] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I think this is where we agree to differ - I don't think that the wiki is sufficient for a large enough number of our contributers
[01:08] <txwikinger> it allows synergy by the re-use of any resources that are available
[01:08] <txwikinger> you don't have to redo all of that
[01:09] <txwikinger> it adds additional features that are very important for the learning progress
[01:09] <mdke> txwikinger: so how does it work can you literally automatically include sections of a wiki page, so that if you update the wiki page, the moodle site is also updated automatically?
[01:09] <txwikinger> yes
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> may I join this conversation as well ?
[01:09] <txwikinger> you can put in links to anything you want to
[01:09] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: of course
[01:09] <txwikinger> hi bodhi_zazen
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> thank you :)
[01:09] <mdke> txwikinger: but can you actually include text from a separate site
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> hey txwikinger :)
[01:10] <mdke> and have it update automatically if the separate site changes?
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> first, if you are interested, we have a channel you are all welcome to
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> #ubuntu-learning
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> we have some really nice team members there as
[01:11] <txwikinger> mdke: I am not why you would want to do that
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> Second, as you know, this is an outbranching of the beginners team
[01:11] <txwikinger> Either you want the text not to change, then you would copy the text
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> the beginners team collaborates with several other teams as well, and quite successfully I might add
[01:11] <txwikinger> if you want to have all changes anyway, you would not want to copy it
[01:12] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: certainly
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> Moodle, or similar, fills a similar, but very different need then the wiki
[01:13] <mdke> yes, txwikinger has given a good explanation
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> Everyone learns as his or her own way
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> Moodle is just another format and IMO enhances the wiki content
[01:14] <mdke> DougieRichardson: just to come back on your point a few minutes ago, I'm not saying the wiki is entirely sufficient, but that it can be improved (through initiatives like those we've seen in the MOTU team and some of which you've applied to our team already)
[01:14] <bodhi_zazen> What is very nice, the learning team can contribute to the wiki, and we can then use existing content to present it is a different venue if you will
[01:14] <txwikinger> Well Moodle allows a lot of didactic and paedagogic techniques that are difficult ot achieve in a wiki
[01:15] <mdke> DougieRichardson: irc classes, playbook, walkthroughs etc
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> It is a tool for learning
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> it can not replace the wiki, nor is that the goal
[01:15] <DougieRichardson> mdke: i agree it can be improved - this initiative integrates the IRC and walkthrough elements
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> likewise, it fills a need that some people feel are unmet by the wiki
[01:16]  * txwikinger agrees with that
[01:16] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: I understand (thanks to txwikinger) what value is added; but what worries me is that it will (a) require us to dedicate substantial resources to maintaining two sites; and (b) introduces potential confusion for people about which of the two sites they should be using
[01:16] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: I'm just trying to weigh up the considerations in my mind
[01:16] <bodhi_zazen> Ah
[01:17] <mdke> and another consideration of course is whether the wiki can be improved
[01:17] <mdke> whether by content or adding features
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> Well, yes, it will require maintance
[01:17] <mdke> given how seriously invested the Ubuntu community is in our wiki
[01:17] <txwikinger> I don't think anything will be taken away from the wiki
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> but we are neither asking or excluding the doc team to maintain moodle
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> we are looking to collaborate
[01:18]  * mdke nods
[01:18] <txwikinger> indeed
[01:18] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: to be absolutely clear, I'm not taking a position against the project, at all; but I do want to see a better quality discussion around the community about it that has happened to date
[01:18] <mdke> s/that/than
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> I find there are people with a different background then mine, education (is school)
[01:18] <mdke> to give you an example
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> and they are very very interested in wiki
[01:18] <mdke> we used to have online documentation on wiki.ubuntu.com
[01:19]  * bodhi_zazen listens
[01:19] <mdke> after some serious thought we drew up a specification justifying why we thought it was sensible to move documentation to a separate website at help.ubuntu.com
[01:19] <mdke> we took the spec to the CC for discussion
[01:19] <mdke> (after a lot of work on it)
[01:19] <mdke> this was before I was on the CC
[01:20] <mdke> it became apparent that they had concerns which we hadn't raised in the spec, and the idea was rejected
[01:20] <bodhi_zazen> OUCH
[01:20] <mdke> it was one of the more disappointing moments in my volunteer work for Ubuntu
[01:20] <bodhi_zazen> Well, such may be the fate of this project as well
[01:20] <mdke> but I quickly realised that the reason it was rejected was because we hadn't actually justified it properly, or addressed their concerns in the specification
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> But that is a "risk" I am willing to take
[01:21] <mdke> so we went back and did that, and then got it approved
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> +1 on that
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> Well, we have worked very hard on that
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> And we have support / approval from Canonical on this
[01:21] <mdke> the point I want to make is that the quality of a discussion around potential problems with a project is what will ultimately make it successful, and acceptable to the community
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> we have been approved to use the Ubuntu trade mark
[01:22] <txwikinger> Well.. another reason for me to do this project on moodle is that I think one of the handicaps for linux to spread at the moment is the need for professional training
[01:22] <mdke> that's fine
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> and we have been approved to use learn.ubuntu.com (subdomain)
[01:22] <mdke> but the wiki page at the moment doesn't really answer any of my questions
[01:22] <mdke> I only fully understood the benefits of moodle until txwikinger took the trouble to give a very good explanation here
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> what wiki page mdke :)
[01:22] <mdke> wiki/Learning
[01:22] <txwikinger> course moduls in moode form can allow the leverage of many independent professionals to leverage training to customers
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> ah, well, part of our "problem" now
[01:23] <mdke> and this discussion has been quite productive I think
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> is we went the reverse direction
[01:23] <txwikinger> therefore raising the brand of ubuntu to another level
[01:23] <mdke> but all these issues need to be explained somewhere
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> we approached Canonical first
[01:23] <bodhi_zazen> building project second
[01:23] <mdke> Canonical isn't Ubuntu though
[01:24] <bodhi_zazen> so we are (hopefully) starting with support, and build from there
[01:24] <mdke> they just control the trademark :)
[01:24] <bodhi_zazen> well, yes, but you get the idea
[01:24] <mdke> I see what you are saying
[01:25] <bodhi_zazen> to be honest, the biggest problem we have is "overwhelming interest" in the project
[01:25] <mdke> but I don't agree with it - I'd like to see you justify the project to the whole community and address any concerns that are raised; because that's just healthy community, for me
[01:25] <bodhi_zazen> by that I mean, we have so many people interested in the project, we have not built anything yet, lol
[01:25] <mdke> I'm pretty sure you have views on all the points that I'd raise, and can produce answers
[01:25] <mdke> they just aren't written down
[01:26] <bodhi_zazen> mdke: well we have done exactly that
[01:26] <bodhi_zazen> The idea was presented to all the ubuntu community members in a now infamous mass email
[01:26] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[01:26] <mdke> I haven't seen it
[01:26] <mdke> oh yeah
[01:26] <mdke> I replied to that email, and didn't get a response
[01:27] <mdke> but I think you're misunderstanding
[01:27] <mdke> that email was a general overview
[01:27] <bodhi_zazen> Well, as I said, when we sent the email we thought, gee lets get teh idea out and see what happens
[01:27] <mdke> I can appreciate that
[01:27] <mdke> I see the enthusiasm
[01:28] <bodhi_zazen> What happened is we found large numbers of people interested, and so are proceeding
[01:28] <DougieRichardson> getting a specification written would be a sensible step now
[01:28] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: yeah, I've understood your point. It's an error, in my view
[01:29] <bodhi_zazen> no, your concerns are very reasonable
[01:29] <mdke> as DougieRichardson says, writing a specification to outline in detail the problem that you are trying to solve, how it will be solved, and to answer any potential concerns, would go a long way to putting this on the right footing
[01:29] <mdke> for example, the spec I spoke about earlier is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs
[01:29] <mdke> see how it's structured
[01:30] <mdke> if you copy and paste what txwikinger said about moodle before you came in, you've got one sub-section sorted already
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> good point
[01:30] <bodhi_zazen> FYI : http://paste.ubuntu.com/147415/
[01:30] <mdke> ok, that's a first step, cool
[01:31] <mdke> you need a detailed "Rationale" section
[01:32] <bodhi_zazen> I shall ask that that information be added / updated to our wiki page ASAP
[01:32] <mdke> I wonder if there could be some kind of a mockup for the site structure
[01:32] <mdke> there's nothing quite like seeing an idea in action
[01:33] <DougieRichardson> mdke: they have a skeleton site
[01:34] <mdke> cool
[01:34] <mdke> ok, I'm going to have to duck out, it's really late now
[01:34] <mdke> thanks txwikinger and bodhi_zazen for the time
[01:34] <mdke> DougieRichardson: surely it's past your bed time as well :)
[01:34] <bodhi_zazen> mdke: thank you
[01:34] <txwikinger> mdke has been a pleasure
[01:35] <mdke> and thank for your work generally
[01:35] <DougieRichardson> mdke: damn straight, my eyes are on stalks
[01:35]  * mdke nods sleepily
[01:35] <bodhi_zazen> Please, if you have questions or would like to see such things as you have mentioned, we would be happy to oblige
[01:35] <bodhi_zazen> night :)
[01:35] <DougieRichardson> ttfn
[01:35] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: let's talk again after the specification is complete
[01:36] <mdke> bodhi_zazen: maybe it could be discussed at a CC meeting, it's a perfect subject to have a good community chat about
[01:36] <DougieRichardson> mdke: thanks mate
[01:36] <mdke> night all
[01:37] <DougieRichardson> night
[05:30] <Arblegarble> Hi, I'm a new Ubuntu user and I just wanted to point out something I learned the hard way. If you use a 64 char hex key for WPA2 personal, network manager will try to use it as a passphrase instead of a literal PKI
[05:32] <Arblegarble> I couldn't find an easy way to force it to use the key literally so I ended up having to change the key on my router to a passphrase to get the connection to work
[16:43] <Shane_Fagan> Hey im stuck, im working on Bug #346892
[16:43] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 346892 in ubuntu-docs "games/C/games.xml:109 keymapping not input devices" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346892
[18:02] <pace_t_zulu> anyone here?
[18:14] <nhandler> o/
[18:23] <pace_t_zulu> sup nhandler
[18:24] <pace_t_zulu> are you part of the DocumentationTeam?
[18:26] <nhandler> pace_t_zulu: Not yet. Do you have a question about the doc team?
[18:31] <pace_t_zulu> nhandler: i am interested in joining
[18:32] <nhandler> pace_t_zulu: I would suggest sending an email to the mailing list. You can then read through the different wiki pages to learn about how to start contributing. There is also a doc team in a few hours that you should attend
[18:34] <pace_t_zulu> nhandler: I have been contributing for a little while now... I would like to become more involved
[18:36] <philip_> then start editing stuff ;)
[18:36] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, you can subscrive to the mailing list here - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[18:37] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you
[18:37] <pace_t_zulu> philip_: I have been editing stuff actively... you will see me in the logs
[18:37] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn and philip_ are either of you on the Documentation team?
[18:38] <Rocket2DMn> yes
[18:38] <philip_> i'm not
[18:38] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: would the first step (beyond editing community documentation) be to subscribe to the mailing list?
[18:39] <Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, yes, that is a logical next step.  you should consider sending an email to the list after you subscribe, just briefly introducing yourself and letting the team know that you are interested in helping.
[18:39] <pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you for the advice... I appreciate your time
[18:39] <Rocket2DMn> if there is something in particular that you want to work on, say so, otherwise you can ask for some direction
[18:40] <Rocket2DMn> no problem pace_t_zulu , that's why we're here
[19:04] <mdke> nhandler: yes you are!
[19:12] <nhandler> mdke: Technically, yes. I am part of the students team (an open team) which is part of the doc team.
[19:14] <mdke> nhandler: not just technically
[19:33] <pace_t_zulu> i emailed the ubuntu-doc list
[19:36] <pace_t_zulu> thanks guys for helping me
[19:42] <saketh> the doc-team meeting is in 30 minutes rite?
[19:43] <pace_t_zulu> saketh: will the doc-team meeting be on this channel or #ubuntu-meeting
[19:44] <saketh> #ubuntu-meeting
[19:44] <mdke> it's currently planned to be in this channel
[19:44] <saketh> OH
[19:44] <saketh> ok...
[19:44] <mdke> although we may want to do it in #ubuntu-meeting in the usual way
[19:44] <saketh> mhm
[19:44] <saketh> well...
[19:45] <saketh> is it still in 15 mins rite?
[19:45] <mdke> yes
[19:46] <saketh> ok... just in this channel?
[19:46] <saketh> ill just join both chanels in case...
[19:47] <technomensch> guess I'm a tad early
[19:48] <saketh> me too...
[19:49] <pace_t_zulu> is there a schedule regarding meetings? or is this something that would show up in the ubuntu-doc mailing list
[19:50] <saketh> pace_t_zulu: i dunno
[19:50] <pace_t_zulu> saketh: how did you know about this meeting?
[19:51] <saketh> pace_t_zulu: ummm my mentor told me
[19:52] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: yes, if you subscribe to the mailing list you'll get info about future meetings; you can also find the info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[19:52] <saketh> ok
[19:52] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: i subscribed about an hour ago and sent out an email introducing myself
[19:52] <mdke> great
[19:52] <saketh> i agree
[19:54] <pace_t_zulu> i failed to include my launchpad username on the email... apologies... my mistake
[19:54] <mdke> don't worry, it doesn't matter
[19:54] <mdke> welcome
[19:54] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: thank you ... glad to be a part of things
[19:55] <saketh> ok
[19:55] <pace_t_zulu> i hope i can be an asset to the Ubuntu project
[19:55] <technomensch> hey matt, sorry I've been out of touch/the loop as of late, but you know how things get.
[19:55] <mdke> technomensch: sure thing
[19:56] <technomensch> do you remember when we were talking about the openssh docs and getting it into the server guide?
[19:56] <mdke> yeah
[19:56] <saketh> yo... its  time for the meeting now rite?
[19:57] <technomensch> any good recommendation on who I could work with who's familiar with the guide because after our whole mailing discussion about branches, and making changes, I'm not that big on breaking the working wheel
[19:57] <mmatis> Hi Everybody. I haven't introduced myself on the list yet, but my name is Mike Matis . . . and I'm an ubuntuholic
[19:57] <mdke> technomensch: sommer is the person to work with on the serverguide
[19:57] <pace_t_zulu> hi Mike
[19:57] <saketh> hi mike!!!!!!
[19:57] <mdke> mmatis: heh, welcome
[19:58] <technomensch> thanks, I'm PM him after the meeting
[19:58] <pace_t_zulu> I should properly introduce myself
[19:58] <cody-somerville> :]
[19:58] <pace_t_zulu> Hi everyone, my name is John Haitas
[19:58] <saketh> i shud too!
[19:58] <saketh> HI all!
[19:58] <saketh> i m saketh kasibatla
[19:59] <saketh> probably the only high schooler here!
[19:59] <KelvinGardiner> Good evening all. (its evening where I am anyway)
[19:59] <mmatis> Hi saketh!
[19:59] <saketh> hi
[19:59] <mdke> I'd like to suggest that we do the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:59] <pace_t_zulu> saketh: i wouldn't be certain of that... we're happy you are here just the same
[19:59] <mdke> does anyone have any objections?
[19:59] <saketh> same here
[19:59] <saketh> nope
[19:59] <pace_t_zulu> second
[20:00] <DougieRichardson> can do
[20:00] <saketh> yeah...
[20:00] <technomensch> dougie.....long time no speak
[20:00] <mmatis> see you there ...
[20:00] <saketh> ok bye!
[20:00] <DougieRichardson> technomensch: good to see you
[20:00] <technomensch> see ya there
[20:08] <mdke> mfitzhugh: hey, glad you could make it - we're meeting in the channel #ubuntu-meeting
[20:09] <mfitzhugh> Cool - thanks!
[20:45] <hollman> hello all, i have a question,.... i'm in Ubuntu Server 9.04
[20:45] <hollman> reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenWebMail
[20:45] <hollman> but openwebmail is't in the repos....
[20:46] <saketh> ummm
[20:46] <saketh> i use ubuntu desktop
[20:46] <saketh> so i really cant answer your qtn...
[20:47] <saketh> srry :(
[20:47] <saketh> btw meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[20:47] <DougieRichardson> hollman: we are in a meeting but if you would like to raise a bug report I'll look into it?
[20:50] <hollman> DougieRichardson, ok
[20:50] <hollman> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs ?
[20:50] <DougieRichardson> hollman: yes please
[20:50] <hollman> DougieRichardson, ;)
[21:09] <hollman> DougieRichardson, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/370996
[21:09] <ubot4`> hollman: Error: This bug is private
[21:09] <hollman> brb
[21:10] <hollman> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/370996
[21:10] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 370996 in ubuntu-docs "doc community webmail are wrong" [Undecided,New]
[21:10] <DougieRichardson> hollman: cheers
[22:06] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: you here?
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> my wife thinks I'm being anti-social so I'll see everyone later
[22:06] <pace_t_zulu> Kentucky Derby
[22:06] <mdke> DougieRichardson: :) catch you soon
[22:06] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: yep
[22:06] <pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: later... nice meeting you
[22:06] <DougieRichardson> mdke: have a good flight - see you
[22:06] <mdke> thx
[22:07] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: who is responsible for changing the name of ubuntu-doc-students to ubuntu-doc-contributors ?
[22:07] <mdke> me
[22:09] <nhandler> mdke: Sorry for missing the meeting. I'm reading through the logs now
[22:10] <mdke> nhandler: no worries - we didn't quite get to your agenda item, however I think part of it is addressed by the Organization page that we discussed
[22:10] <nhandler> About the low-hanging-fruit idea, what about talking to dholbach about setting up something like harvest for the Doc Team?
[22:10] <mdke> nhandler: i think harvest covers our bugs too, I've used it in the past
[22:11] <nhandler> mdke: It does, but if we are going to start using special tags to identify different types of bugs, we will want harvest to be able to know about those tags/bugs
[22:11] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: any projection on when you can get that done?
[22:11] <mdke> nhandler: I see
[22:11] <nhandler> Technically, the real harvest could be updated, but I don't think our tags will really be relevant to most other packages
[22:11] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: not sure, I need to read through the page again and see what needs doing
[22:12] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: is there something particular that you need it for?
[22:13] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: no, I am just excited about this... sorry to bug you about it...
[22:14] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: it's fine. I will do it asap, there are likely to be a few links to fix around the place so I want to make sure that I don't leave anything broken
[22:14] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: i have been a ubuntu user and tangential contributor for a while now and i just want to be more officially involved
[22:15] <mdke> pace_t_zulu: this is a great way to get involved
[22:15] <pace_t_zulu> mdke: i don't want to rush you... just like a kid on christmas w/ a new toy i guess
[22:15] <mdke> :)
[22:15] <mdke> nhandler: fair enough. let's get the tags sorted out and the tasks page updated, then we'll think about how we can take it to other levels
[22:17] <nhandler> Sure thing. Did we decide on when the next meeting is? irclogs.ubuntu.com hasn't updated yet
[22:24] <mdke> nhandler: not yet, we'll arrange it via the list


[20:02] <Brownout> guys, upgrading from b7 to b8 reshuffled again all the search engines, I'm pretty sure I saw a patch to prevent that in the changelog
[20:04] <micahg> Brownout: please file a bug and I'll try to look at it over the weekend
[20:04] <Brownout> ok
[20:10] <chrisccoulson> Brownout, that's expected, the patch was only added to the new upload


[01:52] <BillGHero> Having a problem where it looks like gdm never shows GUI or login after Ubuntu 18.04 boots
[02:19] <BillGHero> Is this the correct channel for problems that appear to be Gnome/GDM related?


[10:48] <shey> hi, can anyone comment on the stability if 12.04 at the moment? I'm planing to set up a small nfs file server and would like to skip directly to the lts
[10:49] <bazhang> shey, its alpha one
[10:50] <bazhang> so stability is not the key word here
[10:51] <shey> bazhang: true, but ubuntu is also a big distro, so stability is really a question of what you are doing with it.
[12:56] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[13:35] <Gorilla_No_Baka> guys .. i have tried pangoling
[13:35] <Gorilla_No_Baka> pangolin the precise one
[13:35] <Gorilla_No_Baka> now.. a stupid dialog box "an error occurred blahblah blah  do you wanna report it whatever" keeper on appearing
[13:35] <Gorilla_No_Baka> keept on appearing everytime ..
[13:36] <Gorilla_No_Baka>  any way to know what's wrong..? or at least to remove it>?
[13:40] <BluesKaj> Gorilla_No_Baka, the blah blah part is imporatnt to know if ppl can help you
[13:43] <Gorilla_No_Baka> the important part was exactly saying.. "an error has occured" report it  cancel it
[13:43] <Gorilla_No_Baka> and the report it / cancel it  were actually the buttons
[13:44] <BluesKaj> Gorilla_No_Baka, is a lib mentioned or ?
[13:44] <Gorilla_No_Baka> no lib or whatsoever..
[13:45] <Gorilla_No_Baka> to me it seemed more like a generic message
[13:45] <BluesKaj> Gorilla_No_Baka, pastebin, so we can have a look
[13:46] <Gorilla_No_Baka> i should have taken a screen shot.. there was nothing to pastebin
[13:47] <BluesKaj> so this is at boot
[13:47] <Gorilla_No_Baka> other that the annoying message nothing.. fast.. fast install as well  5 minutes on my macbook pro's HD
[13:47] <Gorilla_No_Baka> nope it is noty at the boot
[13:47] <Gorilla_No_Baka>  everything is fine..
[13:47] <Gorilla_No_Baka> it boots .. it installs .. it even works
[13:48] <Gorilla_No_Baka> it;s just the stupid  generic message "an error has occured" that keeps on repeating and popping up
[13:52] <BluesKaj> Gorilla_No_Baka, so the apps all run ok , desktop is ok etc?
[13:56] <Gorilla_No_Baka> yup no probs
[13:57] <Gorilla_No_Baka> man this macirssi sucks balls.. if you dare to write more than one line (or the approved number of caracters  when you press enter nothing happens)
[13:57] <Gorilla_No_Baka> crap
[13:57] <Gorilla_No_Baka> the only problem i found was
[13:59] <Gorilla_No_Baka> BluesKaj:  the rtl 8187 driver
[14:00] <Gorilla_No_Baka> on mac osx and windows they work nice.. high speed (over 15 MB/S) on linux only 100 KB/s
[14:00] <Gorilla_No_Baka> if you guys could fix that that would be really lovely
[14:06] <BluesKaj> i'm not very knowledgeable about wifi , there are so many variables that could be the problem
[14:07] <BluesKaj> how is ssh over your network , Gorilla_No_Baka , is it as fast as mac?
[14:07] <Gorilla_No_Baka> thanks anyway
[14:07] <Gorilla_No_Baka> you mean using the rtl driver>?\
[14:08] <BluesKaj> yes
[14:10] <Gorilla_No_Baka> never even tried it..  :)
[14:10] <Gorilla_No_Baka> i mucked the install up by writing a small script to get rid of unity and the additional bloatwere
[14:10] <Gorilla_No_Baka> :)
[14:11] <Gorilla_No_Baka> hence me using the retard macirssi
[14:11] <BluesKaj> ok , wondered why not just irssi
[14:11] <BluesKaj> I have a rt2870 driver module , that shows in NM as connected , but in reality it's not getting past the router
[14:12] <Gorilla_No_Baka> because i almost never use mac.. i have a small 40 GB partition where mac lies.. the rest is for linux.. now.. in order to install irssi on mac.. well you would have to compile it..
[14:13] <Gorilla_No_Baka> I could not been bovvered to do it.. for 1 hour i am gonna use it.. easier to download a precompiled dmg thing
[15:09] <BluesKaj> ok, new kernel version just installed , seems fine so far , except kde still has window size & position recall problems
[16:07] <gnomefreak> now bzr-notify is crashing
[16:10] <gnomefreak> anyone else seeing crashes upon login? i get 2-3 every time mostly its unity-
[16:10] <gnomefreak> *
[16:17]  * penguin42 got one today - but that was on an install last updated last week
[16:35] <gnomefreak> penguin42: what crashed on install?
[16:35] <penguin42> gnomefreak: No, wasn't during install - was just when I booted the machine today
[16:36] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[16:36]  * gnomefreak smoke
[16:39] <bjsnider> you should quit that crap
[16:43] <gnomefreak> yeah but i will die happy :)
[16:46] <pangolin> non smokers, pff
[16:46]  * penguin42 is just addicted to chocolate instead
[16:52] <bjsnider> you'll die wondering why did i do that thing that i did
[16:52] <pangolin> or wishing you had done more
[16:52] <pangolin> either way, you lose.
[16:56] <gnomefreak> :X
[16:56]  * gnomefreak forgetting something
[20:28] <alex_mayorga> upgrading to alpha1 as I type this, any last minute horror stories I should know and click "Cancel"?
[20:29] <penguin42> alex_mayorga: Seen a few crash reports on Atoms
[20:30] <alex_mayorga> penguin42: no Atom here, this http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666002706#specifications
[20:30] <penguin42> ooh very blue
[20:31] <alex_mayorga> Looks more purple than blue really, but Sony seems to be color blind :-)
[20:33] <BluesKaj> looks blue on my plasma monitor , a slight tinge of red there
[20:42] <Daekdroom> It's neither purple nor blue.
[20:50] <BluesKaj> Daekdroom, and what colour would you call it
[20:50] <BluesKaj> ?
[20:52] <Daekdroom> I have no idea.
[20:52] <bjsnider> that's purple
[20:53] <bjsnider> blue with a bit of red
[20:53] <Daekdroom> It's not purple. There's not enough red in it.
[20:53] <Daekdroom> But there's too much red for blue.
[20:54] <bjsnider> btw, BluesKaj, i read that panasonic plasmas have a flaw that makes the black levels decrease to to the point where even lcd blacks are blacker
[20:54] <Daekdroom> What about violet?
[20:54] <bjsnider> i think any red makes it a shade of purple
[20:54] <BluesKaj> the photo was probly enhanced with a red filter
[20:55] <BluesKaj> not this one , blacks are black , believe me
[20:55] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, ^
[20:56]  * penguin42 wonders if taking a picture of a Sony laptop with a Sony camera and displaying it on the Sony laptop looks like the laptop
[20:56] <penguin42> (or with the laptops webcam if it has one?)
[20:57] <BluesKaj> I also have a an dell lcd 37" tv in our bedroom , the blacks are not black , very dark grey , but it's an older tv now so whoknows
[20:58] <alex_mayorga> I'm past the "Cancel" button guys, but thanks on the helpful discussion about colors ;-)
[20:58] <bjsnider> the blacks aren't black on my sony lcd
[20:58] <Daekdroom> The only thing bothering me right now about precise is the on-screen accessibility keyboard on the locked screen asking for password.
[20:59] <Daekdroom> and the impossibility of installing wine on x64 too.
[20:59] <bjsnider> alex_mayorga, bugabundo bought one of those vaio laptops a few weeks ago and took it back because it didn't work well with ubuntu
[20:59] <bjsnider> he's not here at the moment
[21:11] <_calum> I wish to help by testing 12.04. I'm using a VM. I experienced an installer crash, ubi-language exited with code 1, is this known?
[21:15] <_calum> how do I report a crash?
[21:16] <penguin42> _calum: Run ubuntu-bug ubiquity
[21:16] <penguin42> _calum: ubiquity is the installer
[21:16] <_calum> how do I do that?
[21:16] <penguin42> when it crashed what state did it leave you in?  Can you start a terminal?
[21:17] <_calum> I initialised the virtual machine from the iso. It got to the install screen then the message popped up and it froze when I pressed continue
[21:18] <penguin42> ok, is it repeatable?
[21:19] <_calum> it said if you continue the install may be broken or fail. I tried it twice
[21:20] <_calum> Am running off the livecd due to the install issue
[21:20] <penguin42> ok, when you put the CD in it gives you a choice of install or use, what happens if you tell it not to install, then it boots the desktop ?
[21:20] <penguin42> ok, and now if you start the installer from there?
[21:20] <_calum> yes it boots to the live desktop
[21:20] <_calum> I'll test that
[21:21] <penguin42> _calum: Then if it hangs, open a terminal, and in that terminal type ubuntu-bug ubiquity  - it'll be able to send the install logs to the bug report system (launchpad)
[21:22] <_calum> same message, ubi language failed with code 1 check syslog etc
[21:22] <_calum> ok
[21:24] <_calum> ahh I don't have a launchpad account
[21:24] <_calum> do I need one?
[21:25] <htorque> hello, everyone! do you have an idea how i would alter lightdm's dconf keys? i tried it using 'sudo -u lightdm gsettings set ...' but that failed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/773787/
[21:25] <penguin42> _calum: Yep, that way people can ask you for more details or tell you when it gets fixed
[21:25] <_calum> ahh ok thanks, I'll create one
[22:23] <Bublik2002> how is the stability of 12.04 alpha 1 compared to 11.10?
[22:26] <guntbert> Bublik2002: it is less per definition already - alpha vs release
[22:27] <Bublik2002> i have a dell e6410 laptop and for some reason a lot of the time it freezes when i try to wake it from suspend... yet it runs perfectly if i run fedora 16.... is it something to do with the updated kernel and do you think it would be better to update to 12.04 alpha 1?
[22:27] <guntbert> !crosspost | Bublik2002
[22:28] <Bublik2002> ok sorry.. thought it would be appropriate to ask in here as well because it concerns the new release
[22:28] <guntbert> Bublik2002: I have the alpha running only on a VM, I wouldn't install it on a production system ever
[22:29] <Bublik2002> ok... why do you think my laptop freezes on wakeup? could it have something to do with the kernel... i was having a similar issue in mint 12 but works perfectly in fedora 16
[22:31] <guntbert> Bublik2002: I don't know about fedora, but did you search the forums (or launchpad - bugtracker) for such issues? if it is a kernel problem it will certainly be mentioned somewhere
[22:31] <Bublik2002> because my dell e6410 is one of the certified laptops with ubuntu 11.10 32bit... could it be because i installed the 64bit version?
[22:31] <Bublik2002> guntbert i did a lot of searches and havent found any other posts on this issue
[22:32] <bazhang> it's just alpha one
[22:32] <Bublik2002> which is pretty odd because its a pretty popular laptop.... maybe i'm doing something wrong
[22:32] <bazhang> expect *tons* of issues
[22:32] <Bublik2002> no this is with 11.10
[22:33] <guntbert> Bublik2002: as I warn against running the current alpha I suggest you head back over to #ubuntu, maybe yu
[22:33] <guntbert> you find help there
[22:33] <bazhang> Bublik2002, you were asking 12.04 questions in the main channel, and 11.10 ones here?
[22:34] <Bublik2002> nobody was responding in the other channel :(
[22:34] <bazhang> Bublik2002, thats no reason to crosspost, esp. in the devel channel
[22:34] <Bublik2002> ok sorry
[22:37] <guntbert> Bublik2002: best you keep questions about  a released version well apart from those about a development version
[22:38] <Bublik2002> ok heres a development question.... are you planning to make a gnome shell version of 12.04? stock gnome-shell 3.2 instead of unity
[22:38] <bazhang> both will be available
[22:39] <Daekdroom> But Unity will be default.
[22:39] <bazhang> but a seperate version? no
[22:40] <Bublik2002> will it come in the ubuntu package or is it something i will have to install separately?
[22:40] <bazhang> Bublik2002, through the package manager, of course
[22:41] <Bublik2002> k thanks
[22:41] <bazhang> np
[22:42] <Bublik2002> why did you guys decide to go from banshee to rythmbox?
[22:44] <Daekdroom> Bublik2002, Banshee hasn't made the transition to GTK3 yet, and the opportunity to dish Mono


[06:19] <armin76> asac: g++ -march=armv5te -pipe -pthread -fno-exceptions -fvisibility=hidden -Wall -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -m32 -fno-ident -fdata-sections -ffunction-sections -fno-asynchronous-unwind-tables -fomit-frame-pointer -O3 -fno-rtti -fno-threadsafe-statics -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -DENABLE_LOGGING_AND_PROFILING -DENABLE_DEBUGGER_SUPPORT -D__STDC_FORMAT_MACROS -DDISABLE_NACL -DV8_TARGET_ARCH_ARM -DCHROMIUM_BUILD -DNDEBUG -DNVALGRIND -Iv8/src -MMD -
[06:19] <armin76> MF out/Release/obj.host/v8_nosnapshot/gen/libraries.o.d.tmp -c -o out/Release/obj.host/v8_nosnapshot/gen/libraries.o out/Release/obj/gen/libraries.cc
[06:19] <armin76> cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-m32"
[06:19] <armin76> make: *** [out/Release/obj.host/v8_nosnapshot/gen/libraries.o] Error 1
[06:21] <armin76> ah well, you hit the same issue :)
[09:51]  * bizkut is away (i am away now)
[09:59]  * armin76 looks at lool
[10:00] <armin76> fta: seen the armel build failure of crhomium?
[10:02] <shenki> armin76: looks like v8 hasn't been set up to build natively for arm yet
[10:02] <shenki> armin76: do you know if fta has a bug open for that?
[10:03] <armin76> shenki: no clue
[10:04] <shenki> you guys are the only ones that are attempting to build chromium natively; upstream does cross builds, and so do I
[10:04] <shenki> (i've been babysitting the arm build for the past 6 months or so)
[10:05] <armin76> i know, buts its fun ricing!
[10:05] <shenki> :D
[10:05] <shenki> how much RAM do the build machines ahve?
[10:09] <armin76> 512mb, i guess
[10:09] <armin76> no clue
[10:09]  * armin76 is not ubuntu dev, nor related to ubuntu at all
[10:09] <armin76> but they should be either marvell dove or imx515, which means 800mhz && 512mb afaik
[10:12] <shenki> nice. so it takes about a week to link? :)
[10:12] <armin76> takes 10 hours to do all
[10:17] <armin76> shenki: have you tried the crossbuilds?
[10:19] <shenki> armin76: yeah, i wrote the cross build infrastructure for arm. it takes about half an hour on my phenom-II 3ghz, with 4G of ram
[10:19] <armin76> shenki: but does it work? :P
[10:19] <shenki> s/wrote/helped write/
[10:19] <shenki> yeah, it does
[10:19] <armin76> fully?
[10:19] <armin76> have a binary i could test?
[10:19] <shenki> well, i don't build the tests
[10:20] <shenki> but yes, i have buildt and run binaries
[10:20] <shenki> i'll build you one now and upload it
[10:20] <armin76> thanks
[10:20] <shenki> what hardware do you have?
[10:21] <armin76> sheevaplug, efikamx and ssh access to marvell disco duo
[10:21] <shenki> i'm not familiar with the 2nd two. what architecture are they?
[10:21] <armin76> armv7a and armv5te
[10:22] <armin76> the latter has 3g of ram :)
[10:22] <shenki> !
[10:22] <shenki> want
[10:22] <armin76> ubuntu has plenty of them, ask asac :D
[10:23] <shenki> ah, but it's only armv5
[10:25]  * lool whistles
[10:25] <shenki> armin76: the chromium i build is for thumb2, is that okay?
[10:25] <armin76> shenki: guess so, will take a while to test it then, as the efika is a bit busy atm
[10:26] <shenki> hrm. i don't have a v5 rootfs, so it's a bit harder to build for that
[10:26] <armin76> don't worry
[10:27] <armin76> :D
[10:29] <shenki> armin76: what does the efika use for it's hdmi output?
[10:29] <armin76> and hdmi port :D
[10:29] <shenki> er, in terms of hardware. does it have a open driver?
[10:30] <armin76> nope
[10:30] <shenki> (i brought a openrd client and have been mega annoyed at not being able to use a modern kernel on it, due to no support for the video card)
[10:30] <armin76> does the beagleboard have open driver?
[10:31] <shenki> yeah
[10:31] <armin76> guess its the only one
[10:31] <armin76> afaik marvell dove has no open driver as of now
[10:31] <shenki> not for the 3d hardware, but it can display graphics no worries using the kernel driver. it's just been re-written too, presumably it's better
[10:31] <shenki> ok
[10:32] <shenki> that blows. silly embedded companies.
[10:33] <cwillu_at_work> armin76, recent dss2 work has made settings modes quite nice, although it's not quite xrandr yet.
[10:34] <shenki> cwillu_at_work: do you know if the dss2 stuff can allocate framebuffer memory dynamyicly (as in, when it sees how big the display it's driving is). or do we still need to provide it with the kernel boot args?
[10:34] <shenki> err, excuse the typos
[10:35] <cwillu_at_work> shenki, I don't know about going to bigger sizes than the initial framebuffer, no;  I've mostly been concerned with 1280x1024x16 myself
[10:36] <shenki> cwillu_at_work: ok
[10:36] <cwillu_at_work> it'd be easy enough to try though, although I don't have a spare board handy at the moment (my only board is tied up with some tests today)
[10:36] <shenki> yeah, i should just try it
[10:37] <armin76> shenki: i have sh board that has a siliconmotion gfx
[10:37] <armin76> the fun is that the x11 driver doesn't detect it :D
[10:38] <shenki> :/
[10:38] <shenki> someone should make some embedded gpu IP, and write an open driver for it. i imagine they would do quite well out of it
[10:52] <lool> armin76: The dove drivers are pretty open
[10:52] <lool> https://code.launchpad.net/~lool/+junk/marvell-libgfx http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-video-dove.git
[10:53] <armin76> lool: junk :D
[10:53] <armin76> shenki: ^
[10:55] <shenki> thanks
[10:57] <lool> armin76: Yeah, I hate that name; it's the name of a special folder where you can push any branch
[10:58] <lool> armin76: launchpad forces you to push to lp:$people/$project/$branch kind of trees
[10:58] <lool> e.g. lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/apt/ubuntu
[10:58] <lool> The special /+junk allows you to throw in any branch you like
[10:58] <lool> Without having to register a project first
[11:00] <shenki> armin76: ah, you're on gentoo? i wonder if the ubuntu builds will run on your system
[11:00] <armin76> shenki: who knows
[11:01] <lool> In theory they shold
[11:01] <lool> should
[11:11] <shenki> not really, ubuntu/debian names some libraries differently which throws the dynamic linker out
[11:13] <shenki> also you need to be running similar versions to the ones i linked against in my rootfs
[11:18] <shenki> armin76: http://jms.id.au/~shenki/chromium-arm-r35329.tar.bz2
[11:19] <armin76> shenki: got it, thanks
[11:19] <shenki> armin76: no worries. let me know how it goes
[12:28] <lool> shenki: Most libs have identical SONAMEs in Debian and Ubuntu; which ones did you have in mind?
[12:43] <shenki> lool: not sure, im not a gentoo user.  i was trying to convince a friend to use the google-built images and he had trouble
[12:55] <asac> shenki: armin76: yeah. seems to be an issue with "toolsets"
[12:56] <asac> like it sets -m32 if _toolset==host
[12:56] <asac> not sure where in gyp that toolset thing is done
[12:56] <asac> any idea?
[12:56] <armin76> grep :D
[12:56] <asac> armin76: haha
[12:56] <asac> already did that
[12:56] <asac> didnt find the trick
[12:57] <asac> i see where it sets -m32 if toolset==host
[12:57] <asac> but i dont see how the hell toolset = host
[12:57] <asac> _toolset=host
[12:57] <asac> actually
[12:57] <armin76> maybe its host = toolset *G*
[12:57] <asac> ho
[12:57] <asac> ho
[12:58] <asac> ho
[12:58] <armin76> merry christmas asac
[12:59]  * asac waits for shenki to tell me ;)
[12:59]  * asac kicks off a fresh build for a bug
[12:59] <asac> file
[13:00] <asac> armin76: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=31063 ... thats our snap with javascript bug ;)
[13:03] <armin76> :D
[13:04] <armin76> asac: sorry i forgot to run the backtrace, do you still want me to do it?
[13:04] <christoph_debian> hm maybe someone wants to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM ? it still tells arm5t ?
[13:04] <christoph_debian> don't like to ask around on IRC on multiple channels to find out my CPU is no longer supported
[13:05] <asac> armin76: give it a try. though its not meanng much until we have a snapshot biuld
[13:05] <asac> and thtahat has the same issue
[13:06] <asac> christoph_debian: feel free to update that page?
[13:06] <asac> ;)
[13:08] <asac> done
[13:08] <asac> hmm. not sure about karmic
[13:08] <armin76> karmic is armv6 you slacker
[13:09] <christoph_debian> asac: tells mit it's a ineditable page?
[13:09] <asac> christoph_debian: you need to log in ;)
[13:09] <asac> i updatred it now
[13:09] <asac> check if that is good enough for you
[13:10] <christoph_debian> I'd had put it into FAQ as well (the difference point tells it's v5 opposed to debian's v4) but it's quite vissible this way
[13:10] <christoph_debian> (login requires an account)
[13:12] <asac> ok let me edit that too
[13:12] <asac> done
[13:13] <asac> check it please
[13:13] <asac> (FAQ)
[13:13] <asac> shenki: ping me when back ;)
[13:13]  * asac makes some coffee
[13:31] <asac> shenki: armin76: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list?thanks=31274
[13:32] <asac> fta: ^
[13:33] <fta> asac, wrong link?
[13:33] <fta> crbug.com/31274 ?
[13:34] <fta> seems more like it
[13:34] <asac> hmm
[13:34] <asac> guess os
[13:37] <fta> triagged
[13:44] <asac> ok patched that stuff away ... lets see
[13:50] <asac> 14:49 < jdstrand> asac: netbook-launcher-efl accepted
[13:50] <asac> ole!
[14:03] <asac> NCommander: did you check whether kexec sitll broken on arm?
[14:08] <asac> fta: so triaging means its still left in unconfirmed state?
[14:08] <asac> it was confirmed by armin76 and me ;)
[14:12] <fta> asac, well, i usually semi-triage stuff, i won't assign a milestone as i'm not release manager there
[14:13] <fta> just moved it to untriaged, meaning confirmed but not reviewed for priority & assignment
[14:15] <asac> where do i see "untriaged"?
[14:15] <asac> i always say "unconfirmed" ;)
[14:15] <asac> see
[14:15] <fta> status
[14:15] <asac> what does available mean?
[14:16] <fta> you can't set it yourself, you have to be bugcontrol
[14:16] <fta> available is fully triagged, but not assigned
[14:16] <asac> ah
[14:16] <asac> felt like "fixed" ;)
[14:16] <asac> which would have been odd
[14:17] <asac> fta: do you see where _toolset is defined?
[14:18] <fta> asac, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/chromium-status.png
[14:18] <asac> its odd as i see toolset without _ being tested elsewhere
[14:18] <asac> and i see _toolset nowhere being set
[14:18] <asac> neither gyp code, nor chromium
[14:19] <asac> are there .py extensions to .gyp in the chromium tree?
[14:19] <asac> i only grepped in .gyp there
[14:19] <fta> grep gyp and gypi
[14:19] <asac> hmm. i think i also tried that
[14:19] <asac> let me check
[14:19] <fta> i need to run, be back later
[14:20] <asac> there are only tests
[14:20] <asac> no sets
[14:22] <asac> hah
[14:22] <asac> found it
[14:22] <asac> LoadAutomaticVariablesFromDict
[14:22] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/348585/
[14:31] <armin76> quick
[14:34] <asac> still ;)
[14:34] <asac> no clue how this whole thing works
[14:34] <asac> e.g. is that injected from outside ... detected during build time? etc.
[14:57] <asac> hmm ... now the build failed with the same "pure virtual function called"
[16:17] <armin76> asac: what did you do?
[16:18] <asac> armin76: i dropped the -m32 flags hackishly
[16:20] <armin76> hah
[16:26] <asac> armin76: http://paste.ubuntu.com/348631/
[16:48] <armin76> asac: which gcc are you using?
[16:51] <asac> armin76: tried both: gcc-4.4 and gcc-4.3
[16:51] <asac> gcc-4.4.real (Ubuntu 4.4.1-4ubuntu8) 4.4.1
[16:51] <asac> Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
[16:51] <asac> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
[16:51] <asac> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
[16:51] <asac> hmm
[16:51] <asac> though i didnt build all with g++-4.3 yet
[16:51] <asac> maybe i should try
[16:51] <asac> i now disabled arm_thumb=0 alltogether
[16:51] <asac> seems the v8 code generation has special casing
[16:52] <asac> so could be that the combination armv7=0 arm_thumb=1 isnt good
[16:53] <asac> ok kicking a new build with AVOID_GCC44
[16:57] <asac> armin76: http://pastebin.com/f73b8edfb
[16:57] <asac> thats the hackish patch to continue
[16:57] <asac> you didnt get the virutal func issue before, so maybe it just works for you with that
[19:22] <armin76> asac:   export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/lib.host:/var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/lib.target:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH; cd v8/tools/gyp; mkdir -p /var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/obj.target/geni; "/var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/mksnapshot" "/var/tmp/portage/www-client
[19:22] <armin76> /chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/obj.target/geni/snapshot.cc"
[19:22] <armin76> /bin/sh: line 1: 14154 Segmentation fault      "/var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/mksnapshot" "/var/tmp/portage/www-client/chromium-9999/work/chromium-9999/out/Release/obj.target/geni/snapshot.cc"
[19:22] <armin76> make: *** [out/Release/obj.target/geni/snapshot.cc] Error 139
[19:39] <fta> armin76, looks familiar, could you get a backtrace?
[21:07]  * bizkut is away (i am away now)
[21:15] <asac> armin76: so its still building with gcc 4.3
[21:15] <asac> nice
[21:15] <asac> armin76: do you get a reasonable backtrace  for that seg?
[21:16] <asac> the sigill is just rubbish. maybe thats a better hint to see whats going on
[21:16] <lool> asac, ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/348756/
[21:16] <lool> Will send to qemu-devel@ shortly
[21:19] <asac> nice
[21:20] <lool> I had also noted that I should fix qemu to sigill on instructions not in the emulated CPU, but actually it does
[21:20] <lool> qemu-arm takes a -cpu arg, just like the system one
[21:20] <lool> It's just the man page which sucks
[21:52] <asac> cool ;)
[21:52] <asac> armin76: mine is still spinning ;)
[21:52] <asac> something must be wrong :)
[22:21] <armin76> lool: funny away msg! :P
[22:21] <armin76> fta: asac: will check tomm, i'm tired atm
[22:27]  * lool is away (not reading armin76's temptations)


[00:11] <snap-l> God, PHP is such a ghetto
[00:12] <Raggs> hi snap-l
[00:13] <tjagoda> lol
[00:13] <tjagoda> Rasmus Lerdorf just cried a little.
[00:15] <Raggs> is there a package that brings in developer tools like headers gcc etc?
[00:15] <tjagoda> yep
[00:15] <tjagoda> linux-kernel-headers I think?
[00:15] <snap-l> No, it's base-somthing
[00:16] <snap-l> er, build-essentials,
[00:16] <snap-l> one sec
[00:16] <tjagoda> build-essentials is it
[00:16] <tjagoda> for sure
[00:16] <snap-l> build-essential <- correct package name
[00:16] <tjagoda> essential*
[00:16] <tjagoda> lol
[00:16] <snap-l> that should get you stuff like gcc, and enough to compile drivers and such
[00:16] <tjagoda> wants to grab 28.8 MB worth of win
[00:17] <tjagoda> according to my konsole
[00:17] <Raggs> ty
[00:17] <snap-l> Raggs: np
[00:17] <Raggs> need it for VMware
[00:18] <snap-l> Yeah, I figured it was something like that. :)
[00:19] <Raggs> better that than a windows partition
[00:19] <Raggs> still might try kubuntu desktop
[00:31] <rick_h> snap-l: oh come on, you don't <3 PHP with all your being?
[01:17] <snap-l> Other than having 3 different places to determine how big a file upload can be, it's awesome
[01:17] <rick_h> lol
[01:17] <snap-l> and by awesome, I mean I want to club it like a baby seal
[01:19] <Blazeix> yeah, max_file_upload_size and max_post_size. max_post_size catches me from time to time
[01:24] <snap-l> Not to mention cli, cgi, apache2, and nginx itself
[02:17] <tjagoda> oops
[02:17] <tjagoda> accidentally installed grub2 over the windows bootstrapper
[02:18] <tjagoda> Guess I should go find that x64 recovery disk
[02:21] <snap-l> ayep
[11:14] <rick_h> morning party people
[12:34] <Wolfger> woo! party!
[12:39] <Wolfger> Woot, go ePrize, more Perl! http://www.freep.com/article/20120119/COL06/301190002/Tom-Walsh-ePrize-buys-Chicago-firm-adds-tech-jobs
[12:41] <brousch> perl is like cobol. nobody writes new stuff with it, but legacy apps will stick around a while
[12:42] <Wolfger> somebody got a macbook pro? Hit woot.com for a case, quick. Almost out.
[12:42] <Wolfger> brousch: Uh... ePrize writes lots of new stuff with it
[12:42] <Wolfger> brousch <-- clueless
[12:43]  * brousch shivers uncomfortably
[12:43] <rick_h> Wolfger: heh, well it sounds like this is a mobile buy and I've yet to see a mobile platform run perl :)
[12:43] <brousch> perl runs on sl4a
[12:43] <Wolfger> The servers hosting the backends run perl
[12:44] <Wolfger> and who knows, they may be moving away from perl since I notice the article mentions a shift in their business towards phone apps
[12:45] <Wolfger> but they sponsored the local PerlMongers for a good while, so they'll always be a perl shop in my heart :-)
[13:01] <snap-l> Interesting move on ePrize's behalf
[13:01] <rick_h> how so?
[13:02] <snap-l> I just find it interesting
[13:02] <rick_h> everyone's going to need mobile experise and if this guy is buddy buddy with the quickenloans/detroit mobile startup scene he'd see it all around him
[13:02] <snap-l> not sure how to articulate
[13:02] <rick_h> ah ok
[13:02] <rick_h> thought that was a "interesting" as in "odd"
[13:02] <rick_h> can't read into text this morning...need to make a coffee run
[13:02] <snap-l> Nah, odd gets a "WTF"
[13:04] <brousch> you guys get a bunch of snow?
[13:04] <rick_h> not atm
[13:04] <brousch> we got 4" last night
[13:04] <brousch> must be lake effect
[13:05] <mydogsnameisrudy> the UP got 3-5 inchs
[13:27] <rick_h> heh, so now it starts snowing
[13:33] <brousch> omg gunicorn
[13:33] <rick_h> lol
[13:33] <rick_h> playing with your wsgi servers today?
[13:34] <brousch> pip install gunicorn; add gunicorn to installed apps; ./manage.py run_gunicorn
[13:34] <brousch> that is like heaven for django
[13:34] <brousch> no messing with virtualenv paths and crap
[13:35] <brousch> it's so beautiful
[13:35] <rick_h> lol
[13:54] <Wolfger> gunicorn? A horse with a gun barrel sticking out of its forehead?
[13:55] <rick_h> yea, gevent driver wsgi server
[13:55] <brousch> can i use it as my web server?
[13:55] <rick_h> brousch: usually it's proxied behind nginx/apache like uwsgi and such
[13:56] <rick_h> but yea
[13:56] <rick_h> https://bmark.us/recent/gunicorn
[13:56] <brousch> mostly for the static files though, right?
[13:56] <rick_h> static files, multiple apps/sites
[13:56] <rick_h> you can only have one server on port 80 right, so you if you have multiple apps/vhosts/etc you need something like nginx or apache
[13:56] <rick_h> ssl
[13:57] <rick_h> this just serves wsgi out to the world
[13:57] <rick_h> there's a lot more to a web server on the internet than that
[13:58] <brousch> i have a guy with a single-user django app. he's currently using the django built-in server, but they say don't use it in production
[13:58] <rick_h> right
[13:58] <brousch> it's not on the internet, just LAN
[13:58] <rick_h> yea, but the box he serves it from can only have that app running on it
[13:58] <rick_h> if that's cool then sure
[13:59] <rick_h> make sure django is serving static files and you don't need ssl and all that and enjoy
[14:00] <brousch> yeah, the app is a control panel for a gambling kiosk
[14:00] <brousch> so no other webapp would be running on it
[14:00] <rick_h> heh, seems overkill, but cool
[14:00] <brousch> it is
[14:00] <rick_h> why not just cherrypy then and keep it pure ptyhon without binary deps?
[14:01] <rick_h> it can serve wsgi out right?
[14:01] <brousch> though apparently they have a lot more features they want added
[14:01] <brousch> i would have left it as a command line. let them ssh in
[14:02] <brousch> they have 500 of these things. who wants to pull up a web panel on each one?
[14:02] <rick_h> heh
[14:02] <Wolfger> Is it just me, or does anybody else think of Warrant when they read "CherryPy"
[14:02] <rick_h> just you :P
[14:02] <brousch> Wolfger: i have a friend who claims that he cannot use cherrypy for that very reason
[14:02] <Wolfger> It does lessen the appeal...
[14:03] <brousch> every time he sees it it gets stuck in his head
[14:09] <snap-l> brousch: I wouldn't run any python server app on the net without proxying it behind nginx
[14:09] <snap-l> You need that extra layer to keep things honest
[14:12] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/olech/is_django_considered_pythonic_now/c3ifwco?context=3 <- read from "your docs need work crying about it won't change a damn thing. " onward
[14:12] <brousch> honest?
[14:13] <snap-l> brousch: So you're not exposing potential exploit paths
[14:13] <snap-l> and if you get slashdotted or crawled, you have more options
[14:13] <brousch> yeah, i wouldn't put it on the internet
[14:13] <snap-l> I'd still use nginx for an internal application
[14:19] <brousch> not too bad http://gunicorn.org/deploy.html
[14:20] <rick_h> any of you kde folks on natty?
[14:20] <rick_h> or all on oneiric?
[14:20] <brousch> natty? that old thing?
[14:20] <snap-l> I have a 11.04 machine at home
[14:20] <rick_h> yea, that old thing
[14:20] <snap-l> aka: my desktop
[14:20] <snap-l> HAven't upgraded to oneiric yet.
[14:20] <snap-l> But not a KDE guy. :)
[14:21] <brousch> i don't have any natties
[14:21] <brousch> all 10.04 or 11.10
[14:21] <snap-l> rick_h: Need something tested?
[14:28] <brousch> ah, gunicorn+nginx requires an extra upstart/supervisor script to get the wsgi server running. in apache+mod_wsgi apache does it for you
[14:28] <rick_h> snap-l: guess not right now
[14:29] <rick_h> brousch: yea
[14:29] <brousch> interesting. so you could actually shut down the wsgi server without shutting down the web server. that could be fun
[14:29] <brousch> shut it down, bring up a maintenance mode app
[14:29] <brousch> kind of cool
[14:31] <brousch> snap-l: and the wsgi app is only on localhost:8000 (or whatever) so it's not exposed to the network. nice
[14:32] <snap-l> brousch: Exactly
[14:32] <brousch> that is slick
[14:32] <snap-l> Could do the same with nginx or lighttpd
[14:33] <snap-l> Especially nice to have apache proxied behind something like nginx so you don't expose the bits of apache you don't want exposed
[14:33] <snap-l> so if there's some apache hack going around, it'll have to work harder to penetrate your machines
[14:34] <snap-l> and apache doesn't have to work quite as hard to keep up with the stuff it's not good at serving
[14:34] <snap-l> (at least in quantity)
[14:35] <brousch> now you're getting crazy
[14:36] <brousch> should i proxy django behind apache behind lighttpd behind nginx behind squid?
[14:37] <rick_h> heh, no
[14:38] <snap-l> brousch: Only if you late performance.
[14:38] <snap-l> late? Hate
[14:41] <brousch> are there some things apache can do that nginx can't?
[14:41] <rick_h> webdav
[14:41] <rick_h> mod_spdy
[14:41] <rick_h> a few others
[14:42] <rick_h> but for 90% I'd just do nginx->web app
[14:42] <snap-l> mod_secure
[14:42] <rick_h> I'd not proxy apache behind it unless you need to for some reason
[14:42] <snap-l> rick_h: ++
[14:43] <snap-l> Mostly I'd use Apache as a backend for things that expect apache
[14:43] <snap-l> brain-dead php apps, mostl.y
[14:44] <brousch> that's a good point. i do use phpmyadmin
[14:44] <snap-l> shit that makes you have to run chmod -R 777 . in your webserver directory. ;)
[15:05] <Wolfger> rick_h: Sorry, no natty no more
[15:07] <Wolfger> Hmm... Wife doesn't use her desktop anymore... I should set that up with all the releases that are still supported. :-)
[15:07] <rick_h> Wolfger: np, thanks
[15:11] <Wolfger> Oooh. So tempting. http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596528126.do
[15:11] <Wolfger> I don't do nearly as much regexing as I used to, or this would be a no-brainer.
[15:12] <rick_h> yea, I was tempted by that one today
[15:12] <rick_h> trying to stay away :)
[15:13] <snap-l> Already have it. :)
[15:13] <snap-l> It's indispensible
[15:14] <Wolfger> Thanks a lot, snap-l
[15:14] <Wolfger> Now I feel compelled to get it :-p
[15:15] <snap-l> Wow, I have a unique opportunity to work from home
[15:15] <Blazeix> i have that book too. reading it helped me get over the hump of the learning curve
[15:16] <snap-l> Duties include:
[15:16] <snap-l> Receiving, repackaging and distribution of letters and parcels
[15:16] <snap-l> Delivering mail to local postal carriers
[15:16] <snap-l> Completing reports via company website.
[15:17] <snap-l> The clients are mainly business people and businesses requiring top-notch service with complete reliability.
[15:17] <snap-l> Wow! I can be a physical mail spammer
[15:17] <Wolfger> \m/
[15:17] <Wolfger> rock on
[15:18] <Blazeix> snap-l: sending in your two-week notice for morpace?
[15:19] <Wolfger> I need to get off my kiester and apply for that Canonical job tonight.
[15:20] <Wolfger> working mainly from home would be totally awesome. Working in a non-Microsoft environment even moreso.
[15:21] <Wolfger> Windows is only good as a gaming platform :-p
[15:23] <snap-l> Wolfger: Only because of inertia. ;)
[15:24] <snap-l> Blazeix: I'd have to convince them I'm at least worth twice what they're offering to even come close to competing.
[15:25] <snap-l> and that's after convincing myself it's not a scam.
[15:26] <Wolfger> :-/  Was not able to complete my order with O'Reilly
[15:26] <snap-l> Wolfger: ?
[15:26] <Wolfger> Dunno. Will need to call support. I reckon it's an issue with the Amex gift card I'm trying to use
[15:27] <snap-l> Yeah, that would be a curveball
[15:28] <Wolfger> their system said the security code was invalid because Amex security codes are 4 digits. So I found the only 4 digit number I could on the back of the card (not where a security code is normally located) and at that point is simply said "unable to complete your order"
[15:28] <Wolfger> I hate pre-paid credit cards.  The whole point of a Visa gift card is being able to use it anywhere that accepts Visa, right?
[15:30] <Wolfger> Just give me cash, people. :-p
[15:31] <snap-l> The visa gift cards should be usable
[15:31] <snap-l> unless there's a special charge to use them that the vendor eats.
[15:32] <snap-l> if you wanted to be a dick about it, you could report the merchant.
[15:32] <Wolfger> Wish I'd have thought about that back when I was still upset enough to do so.
[15:32] <snap-l> AmEx is a PITa anyway
[15:32] <Wolfger> Yes
[15:33] <Wolfger> why my sis-in-law thought an Amex gift card was a good xmas gift is beyond me. Amex sucks.
[15:33] <snap-l> Could be a regifting. ;)
[15:34] <Wolfger> The other problem I frequently run into is that you often can't enter multiple forms of payment online. So if the purchase exceeds the gift card, you can't use the gift card.
[15:35] <snap-l> And you know what that means...
[15:35] <snap-l> TARGET RUN!
[15:35] <snap-l> I'll drive
[15:35] <Wolfger> Let's go!
[15:35]  * snap-l needs some matching pillows
[15:35] <snap-l> and some end tables!
[15:36]  * snap-l does not understand what it is about Target that turns me into an interior decorator
[15:36] <snap-l> Meijer? Nope
[15:36] <Wolfger> Got a $25 gift card. Was going to buy a George Foreman grill from TigerDirect for $19.99, but after shipping it's like $28... I wonder what Target charges for them.
[15:36] <snap-l> Ikea? Sometimes
[15:36] <rick_h> it's the red in the themeing
[15:37] <rick_h> it's like firing up a bull
[15:37] <rick_h> :)
[15:37] <snap-l> Target? Certainly, I need a giant grame and clock to match
[15:37] <snap-l> s/grame/frame/
[15:37] <Wolfger> Target's ads are always rather stylish
[15:37] <Wolfger> Meijer? Not at all.
[15:38] <snap-l> Yeah, I go to Meijer for groceries and occasional things
[15:38] <snap-l> Target, I go to browse, and shop
[15:38] <snap-l> Maybe it's the warehouse / flourescent brightness of Meijer
[15:39] <ColonelPanic001> 90% of everything I own is probably from Meijer.
[15:40] <Wolfger> Wow. I had no idea there were so many different models of George Foreman Grill
[15:54] <snap-l> Wolfger: I can't fathom what you'll do with this newfound knowledge
[16:00] <Wolfger> Experience decision paralysis?
[16:00] <Wolfger> Nah. I'm a KDE user. I'm used to way-more-options-than-anybody-likely-needs
[16:00] <Wolfger> :-D
[16:01] <snap-l> Yeah, that's a given
[16:01] <snap-l> "Today, I shall put the window close button on my cursor
[16:01] <Wolfger> is that an option?
[16:01]  * Wolfger vows to check
[16:01] <snap-l> Somehow I'm sure you can do it
[16:03] <Wolfger> I always liked having a Konsole tab in my IRC client and using my file manager as an FTP client... I'm sad those things went away and/or fell out of popularity.
[16:03] <brousch> sftp://ben@someserver
[16:03] <brousch> type it right in dolphin
[16:04] <Wolfger> In fact, Konqueror (was Konq the file manager before Dolphin, or do I misremember?) was the best FTP client I've ever used...
[16:05] <Wolfger> I used to have the window in a 3-way split and transfer files directly from one FTP site to another...
[16:07] <brousch> you can still do that
[16:07] <brousch> but why 3 way?
[16:07] <Wolfger> edge case
[16:08] <Wolfger> I was transfering my website from one server to another, and also putting files from local to the new server
[16:08] <brousch> i just did a split and transferred from sftp on one server to smb on another server
[16:09] <Wolfger> so I opened one split for the old server, another for the new. Was thinking linearly that I would have to download files off the old and put them to the new, but in a Eureka moment I just dragged and dropped from old to new and it worked.
[16:18] <krondor> yeah that still works Wolfger most if not all the kio-slaves are still present in 4 from 3.
[16:25] <rick_h> gotta love it: http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/19/sea-change-apple-guts-textbook-publishing/
[16:25] <rick_h> "The days of the $500 college textbook bills are, it seems, over. With Apple’s announcement of iBooks 2, the world of textbooks is changed forever."
[16:26] <rick_h> except that the company has 5% market share...sooooo that's a lot of textbooks that aren't getting changed
[16:26] <snap-l> rick_h: If it gets publishers to wake up to lower-cost alternatives, I'm all for it
[16:27] <snap-l> I shouldn't have to pay a premium for content just because it's "a textbook"
[16:27] <rick_h> I'm with you, lower cost school ftw, but I hate to see the whole "Apple changes the world" overkill coverage
[16:28] <snap-l> Oh c'mon. Lazy journalism with sensationalistic headlines should be old-hat by now
[16:49] <brousch> ibooks is only on ipad/iphone
[16:49] <brousch> seems silly
[16:51] <rick_h> anyone have a favorite web based diff tool?
[16:51] <rick_h> I want to paste two blobs and get a pretty diff between them
[17:00] <Wolfger> snap-l: Lazy journalism? That sounds like somebody just received a press release from Apple and turned around to publish it.
[17:00] <greg-g> rick_h: LP?
[17:01] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, it's good for changes in merge proposal, but not arbitrary blobs of text
[17:01] <rick_h> greg-g: basically I have to review a code change and the guy moved large chunk of code A over to B
[17:01] <rick_h> and I want to compare to make sure didn't didn't change anything else in that chunk
[17:03] <snap-l> rick_h: I'm not aware of one
[17:03] <rick_h> trying this one atm
[17:03] <rick_h> http://www.tareeinternet.com/scripts/comparison-tool/
[17:03] <rick_h> but cool, just wanted to see if anyone know/had one they liked or ever used
[17:03] <snap-l> Though I did use loggerhead at one point
[17:04] <snap-l> seemed OK for the task at hand
[17:04] <snap-l> (it's bzr)
[17:04] <rick_h> right, again, it's good for diffs in tree, but not two just copy/paste blobs of text
[17:04] <snap-l> That was at least 3 years ago
[17:04] <rick_h> yea, we still use it (actually two bug fixes I'm reviewing are for loggerhead)
[17:04] <snap-l> Ah, cool
[17:05] <snap-l> Rick Perry gave up his election bid
[17:05] <snap-l> Another one bites the dust
[17:05] <snap-l> (dum dum dum)
[17:06] <Wolfger> that song is no longer permitted now that the Lions are out of the playoffs.
[17:07] <snap-l> feh
[17:07] <rick_h> if that was the case the song should never have been written :P
[17:09] <Wolfger> :p
[17:15] <snap-l> rick_h: ++
[17:17] <krondor> rick_h:  http://www.diffnow.com/ ?
[17:18] <rick_h> krondor: cool, thanks
[17:32] <snap-l> God, this irritates me: http://ploum.net/post/im-a-pirate
[17:33] <snap-l> Do without - fine
[17:33] <snap-l> buy independant: go for it
[17:34] <snap-l> pirate because your conscience says it's OK: Fuck you in the neck
[17:54] <snap-l> Jeez, I didn't clean out Google Reader, and now there's a ton of SOPA circlejerking in there.
[18:00] <snap-l> Check that: was a lot of SOPA circlejerking in there, until I hit "Mark all as read"
[18:15] <Wolfger> Foursquare says greg-g wants to be my friend. Should I allow it? He seems a bit stalkerish ;-)
[18:16] <rick_h> Wolfger: would you trust that beard?
[18:16] <brousch> also he has a lot of points so he is hard to beat
[18:16] <rick_h> just imaging him in plaid with an axe in his hand
[18:18] <snap-l> Doesn't that mean that greg-g is OK?
[18:18] <Wolfger> brousch: beat? I did not realize there was a competition.
[18:18] <snap-l> I mean sleeps at night, and works all day
[18:18] <snap-l> ^he
[18:18] <brousch> Wolfger: it's right there on the 4sq screen
[18:19]  * Wolfger contemplates actually visiting 4sq once in a while
[18:19] <brousch> app
[18:20] <brousch> Leaderboard is right on the main screen of the app
[18:22] <Wolfger> Never seen it
[18:22] <Wolfger> also, I uninstalled the app after it became too intrusive :-p
[18:22] <brousch> d00d. it is 1/3 of the main screen
[18:23] <Wolfger> what is this "main screen" you speak of?
[18:23] <brousch> diaf
[18:23] <Wolfger> I go to 4sq for one thing and one thing only: to check in.
[18:24] <brousch> the Me tab
[18:26] <brousch> in the app
[18:28] <brousch> i don't see it anywhere on the web page
[18:32] <greg-g> penguicon doesn't have a budget to fly speakers out, right?
[18:32] <greg-g> or does it?
[18:33] <rick_h> GOH get something
[18:41] <snap-l> greg-g: It depends
[18:41] <snap-l> That's the best way I can describe it. ;)
[18:41] <snap-l> Why, would you like to be a speaker? :)
[18:43] <greg-g> well, it'd be fun :) But financially prohibitive if I had to pay my own travel.
[18:43] <brousch> hitchhike
[18:43] <greg-g> and I don't think I can get work to cover it since it isn't a tageted audience (that we're focusing on)
[18:46] <brousch> CC doesn't care about the furries in utilikilts?
[18:46] <brousch> i'm blogging this atrocity
[18:55] <greg-g> :)
[18:56] <snap-l> brousch: You've never been to Penguicon, so I don't think you can make blanket statments like that
[18:56] <snap-l> and besides, it's generally storm troopers and chewbacca in utilikilts
[18:56] <brousch> this is the internet. making uninformed comments is its primary purpose
[18:56] <snap-l> (I don't know what it is about Chewbacca, btw, but both JoDee and her friend had to have their picture taken with him)
[18:57] <snap-l> so, if you want the socially-acceptable furry costume, there you go
[19:03] <snap-l> Wow, that's a conversation stopper. ;)
[19:05] <rick_h> sorry, busy finding a local supplier of chewy comstumes
[19:05] <rick_h> in stock is a problem, especially on those dates
[19:05] <brousch> i went straight to amazon
[19:05] <snap-l> hah
[19:05] <rick_h> I'm too worried about fit :)
[19:05] <snap-l> rick_h: "Arent't you a little short to be a wookie?"
[19:06] <rick_h> hey, wookies have kids :P
[19:06] <snap-l> hah
[19:06] <snap-l> You can play the kid from the Star Wars TV special
[19:06] <snap-l> and now that's a year of therapy to rid myself of that dreadful show
[19:24] <brousch> crap how do i undo in vim?
[19:24] <rick_h> u
[19:24] <brousch> yes, me
[19:24] <snap-l> uuuuuuuawshit
[19:24] <snap-l> :redo :redo :redo awshit
[19:24] <brousch> thanks
[19:24] <rick_h> u = undo ; ctrl-r = redo
[19:25] <Wolfger> u undoes last, even if last was another undo, right?
[19:25] <snap-l> ctrl-d: dobedobedo
[19:25] <snap-l> Wolfger: no
[19:25] <snap-l> then it would be cyclic
[19:26] <rick_h> Wolfger: check out gundo
[19:26] <rick_h> gvim supports undo trees
[19:26] <snap-l> Always with the guns, this channel
[19:26] <rick_h> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3304
[19:26] <snap-l> gunicorn, gundo
[19:26] <Blazeix> you can even do cool stuff like :earlier 7m to go back 7 minutes
[19:27] <Blazeix> sometimes i just blindly use 'g-', blindly pillaging through my undo tree
[19:27] <rick_h> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Using_undo_branches
[19:27] <rick_h> I don't end up using it really, but good to know it's there
[19:28] <snap-l> Do any of you fine folks use pathogen?
[19:29] <Blazeix> rick_h does, i think
[19:29] <rick_h> yep, pathogen fanboi
[19:29] <Wolfger> ah, I see.... vi has u undo most recent only, vim support unlimited undos.  Got unlazy, opened vim, answered my own question. :-)
[19:38] <rick_h> woot, survived my first review day
[19:38] <rick_h> now to go outside and explode
[19:38] <snap-l> rick_h: Was there any doubt?
[19:39] <rick_h> that my head would explode? not really
[19:40] <snap-l> No, I mean of you getting a good review
[19:42] <rick_h> no I was doing the reviews
[19:42] <rick_h> it's my first day reviewing other peoples code
[19:42] <rick_h> everyone spends a day a week doing review for other people, I'm getting mentored in
[19:42] <snap-l> Oh
[19:42] <rick_h> so I get to try to understand and make sure that whatever this code does will work, not intro bugs, fits code conventions...
[19:43] <rick_h> and I barely know enough to get my own code in :)
[19:43] <snap-l> Wow, that's awesome. :)
[19:43] <rick_h> thus the exploding brain
[19:43] <snap-l> Nothing like getting put through the fire
[19:43] <rick_h> just keep telling myself I've got a year :)
[19:43] <snap-l> until you have to see folks? :)
[19:43] <rick_h> everyone says it takes a year to get into LP all the way and even then it's not a master of all
[19:44] <snap-l> Oh, thought you were talking about the travel freeze.
[19:44] <snap-l> one year until they can lay physical hands on you. ;)
[19:45] <rick_h> hah, just that I'm allowed to be a moron for a year :)
[19:51] <Wolfger> Oh, I definitely need a job like that :-D
[20:46] <greg-g> I *knew* there was a perk I didn't ask for!
[20:52] <rick_h>  woot, super sized battery arrived
[20:53] <rick_h> hopefully now my phone can make a day without charging yay
[20:55] <snap-l> It'll make it 23:59
[20:55] <snap-l> ;)
[21:02] <snap-l> Y'know, it's be nice if I was reminded to fsck a drive when it's not mounted
[21:03] <snap-l> s/it's/it'd/
[21:03] <snap-l> Maybe I should look into changing the mount-count to more than 20, though
[21:03] <snap-l> I mean, it's only mounted 4 times a day, and then unmounted.
[21:04] <snap-l> <- idgit
[21:20] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/onehx/every_linux_screen_locker_broken_by_a_keypress/ <- Awesome
[21:24] <krondor> snap-l:  accidental commit I'm sure
[21:26] <snap-l> Yeah, no doubt
[21:26] <snap-l> still, gotta love it
[21:40] <brousch> oh that is so cool. pip freeze can remember things installed from github
[23:26] <tjagoda> yaaaay
[23:26] <tjagoda> Un-hosed my windows bootstrap
[23:26] <tjagoda> which I accidentally hosed yesterday when installing grub2 over it.


[08:05] <Kilos> guten morgen peeps
[08:05] <Kilos> and inetpro
[08:39] <inetpro> oh hi oom Kilos
[08:39] <inetpro> and all else as well, of course
[09:05] <Kilos> lol
[20:18] <Kilos-> night all. sleep tight