[00:20] <ScottL> astraljava, i wanted to ask you what you which task you are focusing on and let you know that falktx is looking at the ubiquity plugin
[00:28] <falktx__> it's all still a bit confusing to me, I'm not sure where I should look at...
[01:30] <ScottL> falktx__, did you look at the blueprint and the notes in there?
[01:34] <falktx__> yes
[01:36] <falktx__> don't we already have the basic live-dvd seeds?
[01:36] <ScottL> aye, we just need to adjust the ubiquity plugin to match our seeds is my understanding
[01:36] <ScottL> falktx__, but stephane would be a good person to talk to as well
[01:45] <falktx__> ScottL: do we have a timeline for this?
[01:46] <ScottL> falktx__, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/edubuntu-live/precise/files/head:/livecd/ubiquity/
[01:47] <ScottL> falktx__, hopefull before March 1st - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
[01:50] <falktx__> ScottL: I'll postpone it to tomorrow morning again
[01:51] <falktx__> today when I woke up it was already 1pm...
[01:51] <ScottL> lol :)
[01:54] <falktx__> hm, the original theme on gtk3 would be cool...
[02:04] <ScottL> yeah i saw that
[02:05] <ScottL> how will that work wiht xfce?
[03:14] <len> ScottL: Forgot to mention this last night. The live DVD install does not ask if jackd should be installed with realtime priv.
[03:17] <len> The live DVD installs everything. This is why it failed to build with the ffmpeg-extra libs. Once the ability to only install certain workflows is added, the ISO will build.
[03:17] <len> Just like the alt did, but install may fail in the same way too.
[04:00] <ScottL> len, a few things to mention
[04:01] <len> ScottL ok
[04:01] <ScottL> len, i was going to do the multi-head documentation so it's a little more formalized (although i haven't read your link currently)
[04:01] <ScottL> noting the testing was done for two use cases
[04:01] <ScottL> these are the steps used to make it work for both
[04:01] <ScottL> and these are the packages we tried and these are why they weren't chosen
[04:02] <ScottL> those type of things
[04:02] <ScottL> len, i don't have to do them, if you want to that would be great as well
[04:02] <len> I tried to do a and b, but not really c
[04:02] <ScottL> but i just want something that users can use but also documents our experience so we don't have to relive this later on
[04:03] <ScottL> len, there are other things that i wanted to tell you today but i can't remember now that i'm tired :P
[04:03] <len> If its easier send email
[04:03] <ScottL> len, i can do that :)
[04:03] <ScottL> also, don't forget to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap and commit for something if you can
[04:03] <ScottL> otherwise i'll end up doing it all myself
[04:04] <len> I know you must be a few hours ahead of me
[04:04] <ScottL> it's 22:03 here
[04:04] <len> 2 hours then
[04:06] <ScottL> i found the reprio.conf thingie earlier
[04:08] <ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/ubuntustudio-meta/precise/revision/73
[04:08] <ScottL> this is where it was added, and it was quite a while ago
[04:09] <ScottL> oct 2010
[04:09] <len> I think the whole jack permissions thing is being thought about from what I have seen.
[04:10] <ScottL> yeah, it should be
[04:10] <ScottL> but for precise we should still fix what we can so it's clean
[04:10] <ScottL> i think the ubuntustudio-meta (or ubuntustudio-audio within -meta) shouldn't add the other file if jackd is providing what it does
[04:10] <len> I was wondering though, on the live DVD install if jack is installed with rt permission or not
[04:11] <ScottL> len, i'm guessing that the live user doesn't have permissions via the audio group
[04:11] <ScottL> i'm surprised that the installed OS doesn't have -rt permissions though
[04:11] <ScottL> len, i'm going to test this weekend as well, make a good list, ask others for what they noticed, and then hit up cjwatson about fixing some of it
[04:12] <len> On alt I get asked if I want rt, but not with live. A problem with ubiquity?
[04:12] <ScottL> possibly, but i'm not sure about any of that stuff
[04:12] <ScottL> i know crap about ubiquity, to be honest
[04:12] <len> ubiquity man page is pretty sparse
[04:13] <ScottL> i think ubiquity has been called a black box a few times or voodoo or similar
[04:13] <len> I figured out more looking at its files
[04:14] <len> I could probably change the slideshow... though not the way it was intended to be changed ;-)
[04:14] <len>  But the black box comment fits.
[04:15] <len> ScottL: Gotta go do my sons meds. Ill look for the email.
[04:16] <ScottL> len, thanks :)
[04:16] <ScottL> len, check out the guidelines as swell for the slideshow
[04:23] <ailo> ScottL: len: What happened to me, installing US from the live environment was that the user did not end up in audio group, the jack file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf was installed, but renamed. There was no additional US file from the ubuntustudio-audio package
[04:24] <ailo> The renamed jack file became /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf.disabled
[04:24] <ailo> So, no rt priv for user
[04:26] <len> ailo: Normally at jack install we are asked if we want rt priv. but not with live install.
[04:27] <ailo> len: True. The installation proceeds as if we have answered yes
[04:27] <ailo> Whereafter the file that is installed as a consequence to answering yes is overrided
[04:28] <ailo> When jack asks if we want rt priv, it doesn't actually provide it. It just installs the file that gives rt priv to audio group
[04:28] <ailo> Namely /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
[04:30] <ailo> I suspect installing the old way (not from the live environment) will put user to audio group
[04:31] <ailo> If it is the same as it used to be. I realize things have changed a lot since gnome2 install
[04:43] <ailo> Since it does affect security, I suppose it's bad not getting the question. Perhaps ubiquity is not designed to do this?
[04:48] <len> ailo: ubiquity docs seem to be pretty sparse
[04:52] <ScottL> i'm planning on poking cjwatson about this after this weekend to see what else needs addressing
[04:57] <ScottL> it would appear that only the 64 bit version of ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme is being built currently
[04:58] <ScottL> but maybe i'm wrong :/
[04:58] <ScottL> sorry, it appears that only a 32 bit version is being built
[04:58] <ScottL> is anyone running a 32 bit version of 12.04 currently?   could be ubuntu or xubuntu or *buntu 12.04
[04:59] <micahg> ScottL: are there binary components in that package?
[04:59] <ScottL> micahg, do you mean does it generate a .deb file?
[05:00] <micahg> no
[05:00] <ScottL> oh, you mean like an image?
[05:00] <micahg> I mean is there anything compiled in the package?  right now, it's arch: all
[05:00] <ScottL> this is where i'm looking: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme/0.2
[05:00] <micahg> yes, but what's insid
[05:00] <micahg> e
[05:01] <ScottL> it looks like 0.1 was never pushed to repos and 0.2 appears to only be i386
[05:01] <micahg> it's an arch all package (which means architecture independent)
[05:01] <ScottL> micahg, i'm not sure to be honest, i'll poke around
[05:02] <ScottL> micahg, doesn't look like it
[05:03] <micahg> ScottL: it's just conf files, it's fine
[05:03] <ScottL> just /user and /etc and /debian directories
[05:03] <ScottL> and conf files unde the first two
[05:03] <ScottL> oh, you typed that too
[05:03] <ScottL> sorry, getting a bit tired
[05:04] <ScottL> but, micahg , if i type 'apt-cache search ubuntustudio-*' i don't get the -lightdm-theme package
[05:04] <ScottL> i'm on 64 bit install
[05:04] <ScottL> synaptic can't find it either
[05:04] <micahg> I see it...
[05:04] <micahg> is your mirror up to date?
[05:04] <ScottL> i 'refreshed' in synaptic
[05:04] <micahg> are you on precise?
[05:04] <ScottL> but i'll do a sudo apt-get upgrade
[05:05] <ScottL> errr update
[05:05] <micahg> it was built almost 3 months ago
[05:05] <ScottL> errrrr, no
[05:05] <ScottL> micahg, i'm an idiot, sorry
[05:05] <ScottL> i'm using oneirc right now on this laptop
[05:05] <micahg> right, it's precise only
[05:06] <ScottL> yeah, i see my logic now
[05:06] <ScottL> i had thought it had been built for oneiric originally
[05:06] <ScottL> i thought it had been included in the 11.10 ISO actually
[05:07] <micahg> nope, it was supposed to be, but didn't get sponsored IIRC
[05:07] <ScottL> as i poked around seeing if rev 2 had been uploaded or not (which would cause the background to not work as it looked) i noticed it wasn't there
[05:07] <ScottL> yeah, that makes sense
[05:08] <ScottL> i'm going to install the precise live-dvd by this weekend and look at it
[05:08] <ScottL> i suppose i could always get the source and build local to see it as well, but i can wait...plus it might not even build properly
[05:09] <ScottL> me being on oneiric
[05:09] <ScottL> okay, it's quite a bit past my bedtime, good night
[05:09] <micahg> ScottL: you can just grab the deb from LP, nothing is really built, so it should work on oneiric as well
[05:09] <ailo> ScottL: GN Scott
[05:10] <ailo> We work in shifts
[05:10] <ailo> I just woke
[05:10] <ScottL> micahg, oh, i see your point about binaries now, i think
[05:10] <ailo> ..up
[05:10] <micahg> yes, the word is overloaded :)
[05:10] <micahg> I was referring to binary vs text as opposed to binary vs source
[05:11] <ScottL> i guess i've always viewed .deb files as binaries, but i can see that that isn't the case
[05:11] <micahg> no, they are :)
[05:11] <micahg> they're binary packages
[05:12] <ScottL> oh, okay...i'll think more on this on the morrow ;)
[11:09] <astraljava> ScottL: Sorry, had fallen asleep already. I don't know, really. I see a lot of tasks have been taken care of, already (thanks guys! You're doing an awesome job!)
[11:10] <astraljava> ScottL: Maybe we need to have a little discussion on what's most important at the moment, what's been done, and what's essential before the Alpha-2.
[11:10] <astraljava> ScottL: Informal meeting this Sunday?
[13:02] <ScottL> astraljava, the roadmap shows what i think is important at this point https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
[13:03] <ScottL> and it's broken out by milestone
[13:03] <ScottL> i just want to make sure we are addressing all items remaining, items are prioritized correctly, and we are working effectively across those items
[13:05] <ScottL> astraljava, i will absolutely be at a meeting this sunday
[13:05] <ScottL> in about 4.5 hours i will be at my desk for 2 hours (all day meeting except for 2 hours during lunch)
[13:06] <ScottL> we can talk more about work items during that time if you want
[13:06] <ScottL> you seem to have vocally committed to many things, which is why i asked falktx to look at the ubiquity plugin since it's a pretty important piece of work currently
[13:06] <ScottL> if you really want it and will focus on it, then great, we'll get falktx to do something else...because there is plent else to do
[14:05] <scott-work> micahg: i am thinking clearer now
[14:05] <astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, that would be good. So that's around 1730 UTC, right?
[14:05] <scott-work> i know that .deb files are binaries, i can't just open a text file and read them
[14:06] <scott-work> astraljava:  i don't remember the time we usually do them but i will be there
[14:06] <scott-work> micahg: and i understand the differentiation you meant on about binaries now, binary vs. text and binary vs source
[14:07] <scott-work> we we're obviously dealing with source, but within the source we were also only dealing with text within the -lightdm-theme package
[14:09] <quadrispro> hi guys, I'm sorry to not have much time to spend here having fun with you :) I'm here just to inform you that I've sync'd mudita24 for Precise
[14:15] <astraljava> scott-work: .deb files are practically just containers. You can extract them with `dpkg -x <filename>.deb`
[14:17] <astraljava> Well, there's not much point to test the package then, as it's already there. :) Gotta love the guy. Too bad he had to leave.
[14:42] <ailo> Groups, security.. there's no such thing as a perfect system. There's just what you want to achieve and trying to find an energy efficient way to do that
[14:43] <ailo> Or should I say, a fun way to do things
[14:43] <holstein> i like how falk did it with KX
[14:44] <holstein> it was a bit clunky, though functional, and totally fixed this at install
[14:46] <ailo> holstein: What bothered me the most was that the desktop was slow
[14:46] <holstein> ailo: live?
[14:46] <holstein> it wont be fast
[14:46] <ailo> Well, it was heavy on the graphics
[14:47] <ailo> Other than that, it was cool
[14:49] <holstein> i find it similar to the normal live CD's
[14:49] <holstein> i should say i havent actually loaded ours up, but thte 64studio one, the new dynebolic, the others too...
[14:49] <ailo> holstein: I don't think it was only the live CD
[14:50] <ailo> I mean, loading applications is slow on live CD's, not running them
[14:50] <ailo> And the graphics should not be slow
[14:50] <holstein> interesting
[14:50] <ailo> Especially on a multimedia system
[14:50] <holstein> i was hoping XFCE would help us a bit
[14:50] <ailo> The US live DVD was slow for me, but there was some bug having to do with dbus
[14:51] <ailo> I get it sometimes with my normal Precise install as well
[14:51] <ailo> The US live DVD was using up a lot of CPU
[14:51] <holstein> maybe its kernel+your hardware related?
[14:51] <ailo> Don't think it will later on
[14:51] <ailo> Nope, it's a bug
[15:03] <astraljava> ailo: Have you looked through all the normal logs, ie. .xsession-errors, /var/log/syslog and the likes?
[15:04] <ailo> astraljava: I haven't had time to test it anymore than that. I'll try again at a later stage
[15:04] <astraljava> ailo: Yeah ok. No rush. I'll try to give it a spin too one of these days.
[15:47] <scott-work> astraljava: i plan to give the live-dvd a workout this weekend, can you help me with what to look for in the logs?
[15:47] <scott-work> i want to go to cjwatson early next week with a comprehensive list of things we would like addressed wiht the live-dvd
[15:51] <astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I'm planning to do that, too, maybe tomorrow or at least over the weekend.
[16:09] <quadrispro> hi again guys
[16:10] <quadrispro> ScottL, are you around?
[16:10] <quadrispro> scott-work, ehy, maybe this is the right nickname to ping :)
[16:10] <astraljava> Hey Alessio. And thanks again for your excellent work on mudita24!
[16:13] <quadrispro> astraljava, thank you! :) I need an ACK from UbuntuStudio's devs to going ahead with bug #922036
[16:13] <astraljava> I'll have a look.
[16:17] <astraljava> quadrispro: hydrogen is being directly seeded. Do you want us (US) to rebuild and test before proceeding with this?
[16:19] <quadrispro> astraljava, I tried to rebuild it on (and Ubuntu ships the same version of) Debian before starting the transition for Wheezy
[16:19] <quadrispro> and that's the result
[16:19] <quadrispro> http://debomatic64.debian.net/audiofile/hydrogen.log
[16:20] <quadrispro> so, there would be no pain
[16:20] <quadrispro> astraljava, would hydrogen be the only package seeded?
[16:21] <astraljava> quadrispro: I will have to go through the list carefully, but that's the first thing I noticed.
[16:22] <astraljava> quadrispro: Can I get a list of affected packages in text format somehow from LP?
[16:22] <astraljava> quadrispro: I mean apart from c&p'ing. :)
[16:28] <astraljava> quadrispro: Well at least it's now easier to c&p from the bugmail. :)
[16:33] <astraljava> quadrispro: Yes, hydrogen is the only one directly seeded. I suppose the dependencies should be checked too, though?
[16:37] <quadrispro> which deps?
[16:43] <astraljava> quadrispro: Deps for the seeded apps?
[16:45] <quadrispro> astraljava, everything should be OK
[16:45] <quadrispro> astraljava, if you want, you could check twice with apt-rdepends
[16:46] <quadrispro> astraljava, remember to use --reverse, point your attention to the libaudiofile0, that is the binary which will change name
[16:47] <micahg> I can give you a pastebin of the reverse deps if you like
[16:49] <astraljava> micahg: That'd be awesome, thanks!
[16:51] <micahg> hmm...pastebinit is broke, one sec
[16:52] <astraljava> No rush.
[16:53] <micahg> nope, Ubuntu pastebin is broke, http://paste.debian.net/153724/
[16:55] <micahg> FYI, there's also a reverse-depends tool in ubuntu-dev-tools now
[16:57] <astraljava> Oh cool, will look into that one. Thanks, micahg!
[16:59] <scott-work> quadrispro: i am here (but will need to run itno a meeting again soon)
[17:00] <astraljava> micahg: quadrispro: Have I understood it correctly, though, that I should cross-reference that list with ~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.precise/audio-common.depends too?
[17:00]  * scott-work is reading backscroll now between alessio and janne
[17:02] <scott-work> looks like astraljava is already handling this :)  thanks janne
[17:02] <astraljava> scott-work: I'm on it. That doesn't mean it'll be sorted, though. *grin*
[17:03] <scott-work> lol :)
[17:03] <scott-work> but at least you can help suss out what is going on currently
[17:03] <micahg> astraljava: I can do better for you :)
[17:03] <astraljava> micahg: Oh? Do tell.
[17:04] <quadrispro> ehy micahg, how are you?
[17:04] <quadrispro> scott-work, yes, you have understood correctly :)
[17:05] <micahg> hi quadrispro :)
[17:05] <micahg> astraljava: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.precise/rdepends/ALL/libaudiofile0
[17:05] <micahg> quadrispro: I'm good
[17:05] <micahg> and you?
[17:06] <micahg> astraljava: as cjwatson keeps telling us, let's not reinvent germinate :)
[17:06] <astraljava> micahg: Did you have something to do with the libav*-extra* packages? The image failed to build because of those.
[17:07] <astraljava> micahg: Excellent!
[17:07] <micahg> astraljava: yes, today's image should be fine
[17:07] <micahg> as in the one being generated in an hour
[17:07] <astraljava> micahg: Ahh... sorry, I confused the date.
[17:07] <astraljava> micahg: And thanks for the lesson-of-the-day, great learning experience. :)
[17:08] <quadrispro> good, back home just yesterday from Germany, I stayed there with my girlfriend to breathe a bit of European air and now, after a week-off, I've so many things to deal with
[17:08] <micahg> I was waiting for siretart to upload libav-extra to Debian, but it never happened, I finally poked him yesterday and he did it
[17:08] <astraljava> Good, good.
[17:08] <micahg> quadrispro: aren't you based in Europe? (Italy)
[17:09] <quadrispro> micahg, yes in Italy, but our air is not so European :)
[17:09] <quadrispro> guys, please give me a feedback on the report and I'll sync the package
[17:09] <micahg> heh, it should be cleaner being surrounded by the Mediterranean
[17:11] <astraljava> quadrispro: xjadeo in video seed matches
[17:12] <astraljava> quadrispro: Also, gimp-gap in graphics.
[17:12] <astraljava> But that's it.
[17:18] <falktx> scott-work: I don't think I have permissions to create new US branches (only to edit them). can you create one for ubiquity, similar to edubuntu? (or maybe just copy everything over)
[17:19] <quadrispro> astraljava, xjadeo? it doesn't seems so, at least doesn't have a direct dep on libaudiofile0
[17:19] <astraljava> falktx: You are in the team, though, so you should be able to.
[17:20] <falktx> not sure, last time I tried it failed
[17:20] <astraljava> quadrispro: Not direct, no. Am I reading the link micahg posted wrong, then?
[17:20] <quadrispro> astraljava, gimp-gap, the same, it seems to not match :/
[17:20] <astraljava> falktx: Please pastebin the output, if you have problems still.
[17:22] <astraljava> quadrispro: mplayer -> mencoder -> xjadeo, which is in video seed. Does that not count?
[17:23] <quadrispro> no, because the shlib will change (libaudiofile0 -> libaudiofile1), if a package doesn't have a direct dep on libaudiofile0 it won't be touched
[17:23] <astraljava> quadrispro: Ahh... ok then. Yeah, if that's the case, then hydrogen is the only one.
[17:24] <quadrispro> ok
[17:50] <holstein> D00Ds!
[17:50] <holstein> the live CD is *nice*
[17:51] <holstein> the little loading screen thing is *so* cool
[17:51] <holstein> who made that?
[17:51] <holstein> the ubuntustudio - linux for creative humans graphic?
[17:54] <holstein> w0w... right out of the box!
[17:54] <holstein> JACK starts... no fuss
[17:55] <holstein> just internal hardware on a laptop right now, but that is impressive!
[17:55] <ailo> holstein: No realtime though
[17:55] <holstein> ailo: right... but still!
[17:55] <holstein> w00t!
[17:55] <ailo> It's great to finally have it
[17:55] <ailo> I mean the live DVD
[17:55] <holstein> and have it lookins so polished already
[17:56] <holstein> ailo: you know how the xrun counter is there?
[17:56] <holstein> what is the other #?
[17:57] <holstein> its like "3 (33)" or whatever
[17:57] <holstein> i know 3 is xruns.. what is 33 again?
[17:57] <ailo> holstein: Isn't it 33 xruns, and three something else?
[17:57] <ailo> Check the messages
[17:57] <holstein> even at this stage, live, and on internal hardware, with generic kernel and no RT, im getting "0 (1)"
[17:58] <holstein> ailo: yeah... looks like that is the case
[17:58] <holstein> XRUN callback (1)
[17:58] <holstein> i have "cannont lock down memory erea"
[17:59] <holstein> i could literally throw something right now im so excited about it!
[17:59] <holstein> that loading screen is very nice
[17:59] <holstein> scott-work: was that yours?
[17:59] <ailo> holstein: I believe ScottL made that for Oneiric
[18:00] <ailo> It's been around for some while, but it would either not work or flash by too quickly to be seen. It's nice to have it on the live DVD
[18:00] <holstein> OH snap!
[18:00] <holstein> pulse audio jack sink running out of the box!
[18:00] <holstein> very nice!
[18:00] <ailo> holstein: Do you get sound?
[18:00] <ailo> I didn't from the pulse sink
[18:01] <holstein> i get yoshimi
[18:01] <holstein> lemme try something via pulse
[18:02] <ailo> holstein: Make sure it's not muted or something
[18:02] <holstein> ailo: im finding the live UI very responsive
[18:02] <ailo> holstein: Whatever is loaded into ram will be very responsive
[18:03] <ailo> holstein: When you load a program, it'll take some time. First time you open the main menu, it takes a bit of time
[18:03] <ailo> But, running programs is not slower at all
[18:03] <ailo> Once it's in RAM, it's just like normal
[18:04] <holstein> yup.. i think its a little faster with XFCE though
[18:05] <holstein> this is a fastish machine that im not used as well...
[18:06] <ailo> holstein: It's not faster than gnome3
[18:08] <holstein> i havent tried gnome3 live yet
[18:08] <holstein> yeah, no pulse via JACK for me out of the box
[18:08] <holstein> still!... im stoked
[18:09] <ailo> holstein: The point is this. Nothing is fast until it's loaded into RAM. Programs, menus, you name it
[18:09] <holstein> a wallpaper and a theme, and we are good UI-wise
[18:09] <holstein> yeah, i get that... i just think loading from CD seems faster
[18:09] <holstein> in XFCE, than what im used to... but it could be this box
[18:10] <holstein> or that im just so damn excited about it :)
[18:10] <ailo> holstein: Don't think the box should matter too much. Did you burn a DVD, or is it from usb stick?
[18:10] <holstein> DVD
[18:10] <ailo> holstein:  Than maybe the DVD player reads faster than another machine you have
[18:10] <holstein> i wanted to go for what i thought would be slowest
[18:11] <scott-work> falktx_: i will see what i can do about the bzr branch, can you make a personal one under you launchpad account for now?
[18:11] <scott-work> holstein: i made the plymouth theme from what cory brought to me
[18:11] <holstein> scott-work: that is *too* bad man!
[18:12] <holstein> it really sets the tone, i think
[18:12] <ailo> holstein: Also, I wouldn't compare with Unity for example until it's final release. And, it would also depend on how many services are started
[18:16] <scott-work> i'm glad you are excited about this holstein, it makes me feel excited as well :)
[18:16] <holstein> scott-work: im installing.. and its not curses!.. not that there anything wrong with that
[18:20] <holstein> this installer slideshow is not a dealbreaker for me
[18:20] <holstein> maybe we can just chill it out a bit
[18:20] <holstein> just use thoes slides we already have on the site
[18:21] <holstein> that would give us some consistency
[18:21] <holstein> and thats something that is in theory already done, and easy to just bring over
[18:23] <holstein> i joined ubuntu-installer.. ill poke around a bit about it
[18:23] <holstein> if its that eays, why not...
[18:23] <holstein> easy*
[18:23] <holstein> one thing to check off the long-ish list
[18:24] <holstein> MAN.. id like to just have that loading graphic there! :)
[18:25] <holstein> 13:24 < cjwatson> the ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu source package has slideshows for several flavours of Ubuntu, and builds  ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu, ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu, ... binary packages
[18:25] <holstein> 13:24 < cjwatson> so it would probably be best to make a branch of lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu and add ubuntustudio bits to it
[18:28] <holstein> scott-work: is that something we can do?
[18:28] <holstein> we meaning you ;)
[18:28] <holstein> or should i try and get a helper over there?
[18:31] <astraljava> holstein: Are you a member of ~ubuntustudio-dev? If so, then yes, you can, too.
[18:31] <scott-work> holstein: yes it is, it's on the roadmap already
[18:31] <scott-work> holstein: also, the guildelines are already linked as well as the code in the roadmap
[18:32] <scott-work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
[18:32] <scott-work> i will ask everyone again to look at the roadmap
[18:32] <holstein> i remember having seen it there
[18:32] <scott-work>  * please make sure all items needed for precise are there
[18:32] <scott-work>  * please make sure you think items are in the right milestone
[18:32] <scott-work>  * please sign up for stuff so we can cover any holes
[18:32] <scott-work> thank you
[18:33] <scott-work> i have also tried to link the relevant blueprint or otherwise required information there
[18:33] <holstein> my install is not booting :/
[18:33] <holstein> drag...
[18:34] <holstein> i could likely take that on then
[18:34] <holstein> assuming i can use the site graphics
[18:34] <knome> i'm going to update the xubuntu slideshow too, so i might as well work on the studio slideshow
[18:34] <knome> as long as somebody gives me the content on time
[18:35] <knome> holstein, if you want it though, feel free to take the item :)
[18:35] <scott-work> knome: that would be incredibly helpful, maybe holstein can help you though
[18:35] <scott-work>
[18:35] <holstein> knome: COOL
[18:35] <holstein> nah... dont wait on me
[18:35] <scott-work> keep in mind about teh roadmap...
[18:35] <knome> i'm not sure how much there is to "help"
[18:35] <holstein> i have to learn how to do it
[18:35] <scott-work> we can always do things early :P
[18:35] <knome> i mean, it's quite simple, the slideshow stuff
[18:35] <knome> you basically just drop in stuff
[18:36] <holstein> scott-work: im going more on what i can do, rather than the timeline for the moment
[18:36] <scott-work> holstein: i bet if you can help knome define the content, he can make it happen code wise
[18:36] <knome> yup.
[18:36] <scott-work> although there isn't much code stuff really, considering we should be coyping and pasting a lot of it
[18:36] <knome> just get me the content (as with the website), and i'll handle it
[18:36] <knome> i even have push rights for the slideshow branch, so that's not a problem either
[18:36] <holstein> knome: im in..
[18:37] <holstein> maybe i can fake our look and feel?
[18:37] <holstein> get some screenies going
[18:37] <knome> your choice :)
[18:37] <holstein> the website is just easy, thats all
[18:37] <holstein> knome: when are you doing xubuntu?
[18:37] <knome> no idea yet
[18:37] <knome> but doesn't need to happen at the same time
[18:38] <holstein> knome: cool
[18:38] <knome> we're mostly updating the text and switching one or two shots
[18:38] <holstein> wonder if i can update the menu...
[18:38] <knome> if there is a bug or work item that can be assigned to me, it would help :)
[18:38] <knome> which menu? the website?
[18:38] <holstein> im assuming the XFCE menu for US
[18:39] <knome> ah
[18:39] <knome> probably, that's not too hard either
[18:39] <holstein> though i dont mind whats there
[18:41] <knome> scott-work, ?
[18:42] <scott-work> holstein: the menu is meant to be the ubuntu studio menu since we moved to xfce
[18:42] <scott-work> i don't believe it will be showing the audio production menu properly
[18:42] <holstein> its not bad
[18:42] <scott-work> i think all the multimedia stuff will all be under multimedia
[18:42] <scott-work> a lot shouldn't be but should be under audio prodcution
[18:42] <holstein> yup.. audio production is under multimedia
[18:42] <scott-work> i think only the "desktop" type apps should be under multimedia
[18:43] <holstein> eh.. i could go either way
[18:43] <scott-work> "desktop" meaning totem, audacious, etc
[18:43] <holstein> it used to be similar to this
[18:43] <holstein> just under "audio" or whatever it was
[18:43] <knome> scott-work, when do you think you would have time for the website stuff? i think we should get in contact with the IS soon again to get the site to staging
[18:43] <knome> scott-work, also, would you please create me a work item in the appropriate blueprint for the slideshow. thanks! :)
[18:43] <scott-work> knome:  can we say withint two weeks?  is that too long for you?  i mean to be "done" with my part
[18:44] <knome> well, there's only some decisions really
[18:44] <scott-work> knome: i can do that re: blueprint
[18:44] <knome> what to do with the "featured area"
[18:44] <knome> should it progress automatically? etc.
[18:44] <knome> and if there is something else you want dramatically changed, now is a good time
[18:44] <knome> because any changes will start dragging once we go staging
[18:45] <holstein> lemme see if dist-upgrade gives me whatever x needs to start..
[18:48] <holstein> im going to boot the live CD on my main rig.. see what its like with firewire
[18:48] <ailo> holstein: Great
[18:49] <ailo> holstein: Great time to see about that firewire - audio group thing
[18:49] <holstein> yup.. the video group or whatever
[18:49] <ailo> holstein: No, it's audio group
[18:49] <ailo> holstein: The udev file, remember
[18:49] <holstein> eh... we'll see
[18:50] <holstein> its been 10.04 since ive really done more that randomly test it
[18:51] <ailo> holstein: Since 10.10 there's a file /lib/udev/rules.d/60-ffado.rules which grants rights to specific ffado devices
[18:52] <holstein> w0w
[18:52] <holstein> arandr just worked like a charm!
[18:52] <ailo> holstein: In your case it's this line..
[18:52] <ailo> ATTR{vendor}=="0x000a92", GROUP="audio", ENV{ID_FFADO}="1" # Presonus Corporation
[18:52] <holstein> i got dual head just the way i wanted it in like 2 minutes!
[18:54] <ailo> If I remember correctly you can't use firewire without being a member of audio group
[18:54] <ailo> Never mind realtime
[18:54] <holstein> scott-work: yeah.. audio and video production are under "multimedia"
[18:54] <holstein> they get sub-menus like before in gnome
[18:55] <holstein> ailo: this drive is reading noticably slower
[18:56] <holstein> ok.. out of the box again with the internal sound device
[18:59] <holstein> nah.. i havnet troubleshooted much, but gksudo qjackctl can start my firewire device
[18:59] <holstein> and of course.. no JACK sink on there ;)
[19:00] <ailo> holstein: Try jack with firewire, no realtime please
[19:00] <holstein> ailo: anything else i should check from the "big-rig" ?
[19:00] <ailo> And as user, not root
[19:01] <holstein> cool
[19:01] <holstein> as normal user, with the realtime box un-ticked.. all is well
[19:01] <holstein> so, that might get taken care of with the kernel
[19:01] <holstein> also, JACK sink is there now as normal user, which makes sense
[19:01] <ailo> I have no idea, but then it seems user does not need to be a member of audio group to use firewire
[19:02] <ailo> Which is great news
[19:02] <holstein> ailo: agreed.. its not the big permissions issue we were concerned about
[19:02] <holstein> im getting a shutdown error... but i think thats OK for where we are
[19:03] <ailo> YEa
[19:03] <holstein> this is a new stack, and new JACK.. im sure i would need to trouble shoot a bit for my particular hardware
[19:03] <ailo> holstein: Nah, I think you're ok
[19:03] <holstein> still... exciting!
[19:04] <holstein> this is an odd nvidia card too
[19:05] <ailo> holstein: Do you have a spare partition, or another machine you can use to test firewire?
[19:05] <ailo> I should probably just get mine home, so I can try one more thing
[19:05] <holstein> ailo: yup
[19:05] <holstein> ill do a proper install there ASAP
[19:05] <ailo> Alright
[19:05] <holstein> OR just on my main rig
[19:06] <ailo> I was pretty happy using Oneiric with the -lowlatency and my focusrite device
[19:06] <ailo> 64 f/p, and not a single xrun to date
[19:06] <holstein> this laptop was a candidate for that though, and its black-screening
[19:06] <holstein> ailo: wow... thats great
[19:07] <holstein> i get TTY's... so its not a panic
[19:07] <holstein> i'll just let it set here for a while
[19:15] <scott-work> holstein: but the audio production menu didn't used to be under multimedia though
[19:15] <scott-work> it used to be under it's own menu item, not as a sub menu
[19:15] <scott-work> i'll probably isntall an older version of ubuntu studio and take some screen shots as an example of what we used to have
[19:16] <scott-work> okay, knome, i'll try to make a really good push this weekend then on the website
[19:38] <scott-work> holstein, are you okay with knome having the work item in the blueprint?
[19:38] <scott-work> it needs to be done and this will make him responsible for it but dependent on your input however
[20:09] <knome> scott-work, thanks :)
[20:29] <scott-work> falktx_: are you around?
[20:29] <scott-work> err, ping!
[20:49] <scott-work> falktx_: i realized now that you don't need to create a new bzr branch, you will be creating the /plugin directory inside the live-dvd (or whatever i linked earlier) seed in the existing seed branch
[21:16] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, sure... im with you!
[21:18] <falktx_> scott-work: probably, sorry I've just been so busy lately...
[21:22] <falktx_> hm, now he quits
[21:23] <holstein> hehe
[21:48] <len> holstein: cd /usr/share/xgreeters
[21:48] <len> make a link from the file there to default.desktop
[21:48] <len> This is a known problem...
[21:55] <holstein> len: my install failed :/
[21:56] <ailo> bad DVD?
[21:56] <ailo> holstein: ?
[21:56] <ailo> Try usb stick instead
[21:56] <holstein> ailo: i dont think so... anything is possible though
[21:56] <ailo> I don't trust DVD for nothing
[21:56] <ailo> I can hardly install anything from a DVD
[21:57] <ailo> If I burnt it myself
[21:57] <holstein> when i reboot in the recovery console, and run startx, i get a "no gnome session" error
[21:57] <holstein> i just barely had time to troubleshoot it though
[21:57] <ailo> Oh, so the install worked, but the system is broken?
[21:57] <ailo> I mean, the install finished
[21:58] <holstein> ailo: yeah
[21:58] <holstein> and i tty'd and upgraded
[21:58] <ailo> I downloaded mine yesterdayt
[21:58] <ailo> Could be a temporary problem
[21:58] <holstein> at this point, you never know what is not supported
[21:58] <holstein> and it can be me
[21:59] <ailo> Past my bedtime. Got loads of stuff to do this coming week :P
[21:59] <ailo> GN guys
[22:00] <holstein> ailo: o/
[22:12] <len> holstein: have you looked to see if there is a /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop file or link?
[22:12] <len> If it is missing there will be no X session
[22:13] <len> I have had this issue for about a week or two now.... including the live dvd
[22:13] <astraljava> len: I think it's time to file a bug about it, unless there is one already.
[22:13] <len> I should say live DVD install. The live DVD part is fine
[22:14] <len>  Give me a half hour... gotta pick up kids. I was thinking the same.
[22:14] <astraljava> len: Sure, no rush. :) It's been there for a while already. :)
[22:48] <holstein> ok.. that makes sense now
[22:50] <astraljava> Whee! New audacious just creeped into unstable.
[22:50] <holstein> cool... do we get that?
[22:51] <astraljava> We will. I just need to find out if the autosync is still working, or if I need to file a request for it.
[22:54] <astraljava> FTBFS on some archs, so might be wise to wait for fixes.
[22:54] <micahg> astraljava: no, Debian Import Freeze is past, please use requestsync if you need something
[22:54] <holstein> nothing wrong with the current one
[22:55] <astraljava> micahg: Yeah, ajmitch just confirmed the same.
[23:28] <ScottL> falktx_, i'm here if you have a question, although i'm going to dinner with family to celebrate duaghter's birthday - 10 years old today :)
[23:29] <astraljava> ScottL: Conga-rats! :)
[23:29] <knome> Bongo-mice!
[23:30]  * astraljava rolls eyes
[23:30] <knome> :Ð
[23:31] <knome> ♫ samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
[23:31]  * knome shakes his body parts
[23:31]  * astraljava chuckles
[23:32]  * falktx_ facepalms
[23:33] <astraljava> knome: That should be a factoid. Can you make it so?
[23:33] <astraljava> !conga-rats
[23:33] <knome> which one? :P
[23:33] <knome> heh
[23:33] <knome> in #ubuntustudio-devel? :P
[23:33] <astraljava> Well, alias could be !bongo-mice
[23:33] <astraljava> Hell yeah.
[23:33] <knome> haha
[23:33] <knome> i suppose i can
[23:34] <astraljava> EXCELLENT!!! /me rubs hands together, Mr. Burns-like
[23:34] <knome> hmm. can a factiod have a - ?
[23:35] <knome> !conga-rats
[23:35] <knome> apparently
[23:35]  * falktx_ double facepalms
[23:35] <knome> !bongo-mice
[23:35] <astraljava> Wow, you rock!
[23:36] <knome> !bongo-mice
[23:36] <knome> there you go
[23:36] <knome> now sssshhh :P
[23:36] <astraljava> Aaaahhhhahahahahaha!!!
[23:36]  * astraljava ^5's knome
[23:36]  * knome shakes his body parts again
[23:48] <holstein> 16:48 < len> holstein: cd /usr/share/xgreeters
[23:48] <holstein> 16:48 < len> make a link from the file there to default.desktop
[23:49] <holstein> ^^ whats that mean?
[23:49] <holstein> im looking in there and i see lightdm-gtk-greeter.desktop
[23:51] <astraljava> holstein: But not default.desktop, right? I think len meant that there should be such linking to the lightdm one.
[23:52] <holstein> im trying ln -s /usr/share/xgreeters/lightdm-gtk-greeter.desktop
[23:52] <holstein> /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop
[23:52] <holstein> from len's email
[23:53] <holstein> yup... that was totally it..
[23:54] <holstein> w0w!.. im excited again..


[20:31] <phillw> wxl: ping...
[20:43] <wxl> what up phillw ?
[20:45] <wxl> nothing obvious
[20:45] <wxl> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | pastebinit
[20:46] <phillw> wxl: could you ask simon to not wander in and mark bugs "Invalid" when they are active bugs?
[20:46] <tsimonq2> *sigh* when?
[20:46] <wxl> oops
[20:46] <tsimonq2> phillw: and which one?
[20:47] <phillw> wxl:  just as a request when I make the boss attention to one of them to look at in time for RC...
[20:47] <wxl> phillw: so this has no basis in any actual occurance?
[20:49] <phillw> wxl: i have reverted the bug status.... so "so this has no basis in any actual occurance?" has basis.
[20:49] <tsimonq2> wxl: he's talking about bug 1522625
[20:49] <tsimonq2> and I have a reason
[20:49] <wxl> then you'll need to be specific in the future, phillw
[20:49] <tsimonq2> it's an LXPanel problem
[20:49] <tsimonq2> NOT obconf
[20:49] <tsimonq2> it's set properly in obconf, LXPanel just fails to update
[20:50] <tsimonq2> so I'd suggest removing it from obconf altogether
[20:50] <phillw> tsimonq2: do not mark a bug that is there as invalid, mark it as duplicate to a master bug.
[20:50] <wxl> as i see he did nothing wrong, phillw
[20:50] <wxl> there's two packages the bug points out
[20:50] <tsimonq2>  /o\ there is no "master bug," it's my assessment of the problem
[20:50] <wxl> he invalidated one of them
[20:50] <tsimonq2> wxl: and I added LXPanel when I did that, FWIW
[20:51] <wxl> it seems to me his actions were quite clear
[20:51] <wxl> i'm not sure why you're confused phillw
[20:51] <phillw> wxl: and he can fix each one?.... I'll leave alone. I asked our head of dev to look at the issue... He will sort it out, not one of us.
[20:52] <tsimonq2> phillw: you want to test and confirm yo uare right? go ahead, give us reasonable proof I'm wrong, but when I tested, I changed in obconf, closed obconf, hovered in LXPanel, opened obconf, and it was set fin in obconf, the screenshot I attached showed just that
[20:52] <wxl> phillw: you are clearly not getting it. there's only one package that it's affecting.
[20:52] <tsimonq2> ^
[20:52] <phillw> so, bugs that are in our release notes that are lubuntu are to be forwarded to Julien.
[20:52] <wxl> phillw: what does that have to do with anything again?
[20:54] <phillw> wxl: how does selecting language have anything to do with installer etc? ... yet it was. Read what Julien asked for on bugs.... HE decides what they affect and how. He is the guy who will arrange a fix. Or, did you delete that from the testing page?
[20:55] <wxl> phillw: i've done the same actions before when troubleshooting, as have hoardes of others. this is not bad behavior.
[20:55] <tsimonq2> phillw: so this is a dictatorship?
[20:55] <phillw> going from B2 to RC, he needs a clean list of bugs to clean out.
[20:55] <phillw> tsimonq2: it is a technocracy, Julien is the boss.
[20:56] <phillw> we have 4 to send to him, the others are not lubuntu specific
[20:56] <wxl> phillw: yes, and with it being pointed against the wrong package, it's not a "clean list of bugs"
[20:56] <wxl> i would totally do the exact same thing were i have went through that process
[20:57] <wxl> he did nothing which makes it NOT a lubuntu bug
[20:57] <wxl> it still is
[20:57] <phillw> wxl: okies, as you wish....
[20:58] <wxl> phillw: as i wish? this is not my "opinion"
[20:58] <wxl> lxpanel is a lubuntu package
[20:58] <wxl> he made sure it was filed against lxpanel
[20:58] <wxl> he removed it being filed against obconf because he had done the steps to confirm it doesn't apply to it
[20:58] <wxl> so, after all that, is it a lubuntu bug or not?
[20:58] <phillw> I really cannot be bothered to argue. so, revert it.
[20:58] <wxl> more importantly, is it an active lubuntu bug or not?
[20:59] <wxl> if you can't be bothered to argue, don't bring this up
[20:59] <tsimonq2> phillw: I'd be curious to see if you can confirm this yourself as well...
[20:59] <phillw> wxl: does it say affects me, or does it not? ......
[20:59] <tsimonq2> and more importantly, CoC says meritocracy, if I have a reasonable suspicion to do something, I am warranted to
[20:59] <wxl> phillw: since it's still an active bug, it does
[21:00] <phillw> so, why ask me?
[21:00] <wxl> phillw: dude, YOU'RE the one doing the asking.
[21:01] <phillw> wxl: i will ask Julien to confirm his views on bugs that he is involved in. They were quite explicit.
[21:01] <tsimonq2> phillw: I've already asked him myself
[21:01] <tsimonq2> no answer yet
[21:01] <wxl> phillw: tell me, exactly, what his explicit instructions were
[21:01] <wxl> was it "no one is to touch my bugs?"
[21:02] <phillw> wxl: indeed it was.
[21:02] <wxl> phillw: then i will no longer encourage any one to do triage
[21:02] <wxl> phillw: nor will i
[21:02] <tsimonq2> but that's just not how it works, hold on here
[21:02] <wxl> phillw: and i will accost everyone that does it
[21:03] <wxl> phillw: does that sound good to you?
[21:03] <phillw> as you wish, so it will follow... I actually suggested that we ask him for clarification.
[21:04] <wxl> phillw: isn't that consistent with what you're asking?
[21:04] <wxl> phillw: if you're saying no one's to touch bugs, no one's to touch them, right?
[21:05] <phillw> not between b2 and RC is what I read his instructions as... Hence my saying he clarify the situation.
[21:06] <wxl> phillw: please email the results to the lubuntu-devel list and make sure it's listed on the testing wiki page
[21:07] <phillw> wxl: "Within bugs related to Lubuntu, you will see bugs raised by, or allocated to Julien Lavergne. Please feel free to add to the comments but do NOT alter the status of these bugs as they are being dealt with by our head of development in readiness for the fix being released.
[21:07] <phillw> "
[21:07] <phillw> which bit did you miss?
[21:07] <wxl> phillw: the part that follows the clarification you seek
[21:08] <phillw> indeed. until then... follow his last orders.
[21:08] <wxl> phillw: it's not clear. i'm not sure i could follow it.
[21:09] <belkinsa> I was called here.
[21:09] <tsimonq2> phillw: where is this posted?
[21:09] <wxl> phillw: if the status is Confirmed in obconf and it's changed to Confirmed in lxpanel, is the status actually changed?
[21:10] <phillw> tsimonq2: in the wiki for testing.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing#Bugs
[21:11] <phillw> wxl: I do not know, all I know is that we asked not to change bug statuses once passed to Julien.
[21:11] <tsimonq2> phillw: I'm checking the revision history
[21:11] <wxl> phillw: but Confirmed -> Confirmed doesn't seem like a change in bug status
[21:12] <phillw> wxl: you are most likely correct, but I read it as "leave the bug alone"...
[21:12] <wxl> phillw: thus why you need clarity
[21:12] <phillw> indeed
[21:12] <wxl> phillw: until then, i wouldn't suggest denouncing people because of their best intentions and hard work
[21:13] <phillw> I have not denounced, i have asked that bugs are not touched once passed to Julien.
[21:13] <tsimonq2> phillw: NOWHERE has Julien himself made that notice. It's there, but gilir has not added that himself.
[21:13] <phillw> there are many bugs out there :P
[21:14] <wxl> phillw: in fact, your actions on the bug report appear to completely ignore the work that simon had done without any mention of why
[21:14] <wxl> phillw: if you have a perfectly reasonable justification, kyou should state it
[21:14] <wxl> you didn't ask a darn thing on the bug report
[21:14] <wxl> it would be similar to you creating a wiki page
[21:14] <wxl> and then me deleting it
[21:14] <wxl> with no explanation
[21:15] <wxl> this to me has a rather demeaning tone:
[21:15] <wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
[21:15] <wxl> oops
[21:15] <wxl> 1346 < phillw:#lubuntu-devel> wxl: could you ask simon to not wander in and mark bugs "Invalid" when they are active bugs?
[21:15] <wxl> suggesting he "wanders in" seems to imply he's acting haphazardly
[21:16] <wxl> when in fact he was rather thoughtful about it and made his reasoning quite clear
[21:16] <wxl> in public
[21:16] <wxl> to resolve it, you don't even approach him, but approach me
[21:16] <phillw> I'm not going to argue.... I get told off for it.... tsimonq2 go revert the bug.... and i will seek clearance from Julien as to what he means about his request to leave bugs for him alone.
[21:16] <tsimonq2> I'm asking him as well
[21:17] <wxl> phillw: maybe if you stopped trying to argue at all rather than keeping your arguments to yourself, that would be a great start
[21:17] <phillw> he's afk.
[21:19] <wxl> meanwhile, i would suggest we edit the language of the wiki page to act with caution
[21:19] <wxl> could you make that edit, tsimonq2 ?
[21:19] <phillw> wxl: i asked in private to you about my interperpration of Julien's request.... you made it all public and I saw you call in a CC member to see if if could be found guilty of breaking my oath to SABDFL.
[21:20] <tsimonq2> that was me, I was feeling threatened, so I would advise that you tone it down a bit
[21:20] <wxl> phillw: you brought it up on a public channel. and you didn't ask about your interpretation. you demanded your interpretation be enforced
[21:20] <tsimonq2> ^^^
[21:21] <phillw> i stand corrrected.
[21:21] <phillw> my apologies.
[21:21] <wxl> thanks
[21:21] <wxl> please try resolving your concerns in a more *productive* and less insulting manner in the future. it would make a big difference
[21:22] <wxl> phillw: one other thing. this bug is not "raised by, or allocated to Julien Lavergne"
[21:23] <wxl> phillw: which is to say it doesn't even apply
[21:23] <wxl> and this whole thing was all for naught
[21:23] <phillw> wxl: well, i would have PM'd you, but i have a direct instruction from you to not PM you... So, public channel is my only way to get live chat. If you'd like to remove that prohibition for the future, none of this would have occurred ... But, meh....
[21:24] <wxl> phillw: this is not a private matter. it's a public matter. it should have been approached in the bug report, if at all
[21:24] <wxl> phillw: but as above, this is not even applicable to what you're using as your justification
[21:25] <phillw> x
[21:25] <tsimonq2> and I would have liked to know about it in the bug report if it was a problem, NOT through someone else, this is trivial and I could have cleared things up EASILY
[21:25] <tsimonq2> just saying
[21:25] <wxl> i completely agree
[21:26] <phillw> tsimonq2: no complaints from me.... but, as not allowed to PM wxl we had a row on public channel that could have been resolved out of view and without you feeling threatened.
[21:27] <wxl> phillw: or you could have brought it up in the bug report
[21:27] <wxl> phillw: and used less threatening language
[21:27] <ianorlin> hmm I wonder if some guvcview bugs need triaging and that cannot really be done in a virtual machine
[21:28] <tsimonq2> ianorlin: go right ahead :)
[21:28] <tsimonq2> triage away
[21:31] <tsimonq2> wxl: bug 1522625 - please change bug importance on obconf to Undecided or something that reflects the status
[21:31] <tsimonq2> I still have to get Bug Control :)
[21:31] <phillw> wxl: I use direct words, when annoyed over things.... To say my thoughts on a public channel to you is my only way to contact you. You have a cc of the email I sent to Julien.... you *could* have copied it lubuntu-devel list... It was an email from me to Julien to ask him to chase up 4 bugs. :D :D we approach RC and these, as far as I can see are the 4 bugs lubuntu needs to resolve :)
[21:34] <ianorlin> is the boot to black wallpaper one of them?
[21:34] <phillw> ianorlin: indeed
[21:34] <wxl> phillw: then maybe you should get less annoyed at the people that are trying to help contribute to the same project you're trying to help contribute to
[21:34] <tsimonq2> ^ I fully agree
[21:35] <phillw> wxl: if i were allowed to talk to you, things would be easier.... But, heay,, that's life :)
[21:36] <wxl> phillw: that's the wrong channel for this discussion
[21:37] <wxl> phillw: this is not a personal discussion
[21:38] <phillw> as you wish.
[21:38] <wxl> phillw: isn't not a wish, it's the facts
[21:41] <phillw> wxl: the facts are if me and you had started this as PM, it would have been resolved between us amicably and your padawan would not have felt so threatened as to ask a CC member to log on.
[21:42] <wxl> phillw: i'm not sure that's true. *I* don't feel good about the way you brought this up, whether or not it was in a PM or not.
[21:42] <phillw> but, that's just my opinion.... I always yield to your judgement.
[21:42] <wxl> phillw: and besides, this is not a private matter. this involves a public bug report. you're basing your feelings on a public wiki page. why does this need to be private?
[21:42] <wxl> privacy is great for private things
[21:42] <wxl> and terrible for public things
[21:44] <ianorlin> also isn't tihs a really small bug to be having this big a fight over
[21:44] <phillw> so, you not in nipping something in the bud... something that Donald Trump's father should have done...... but that is another story :) ...
[21:44] <tsimonq2> come on, let's nto bring up Mr. Trump :P
[21:44] <tsimonq2> *not
[21:44] <wxl> phillw: i'm not even sure what you're trying to say.
[21:45] <tsimonq2> ^
[21:45] <ianorlin> I am starting to question if that should be medium and not low and I was the one that orginally reported the bug
[21:45] <tsimonq2> +1 ianorlin
[21:45] <tsimonq2> let's be positive
[21:45] <phillw> wxl: we could have had a quiet chat and none of the last hour, or so.... would have occured.
[21:45] <tsimonq2> wxl: what do you think?
[21:45] <wxl> phillw: you're still not getting it.
[21:46] <wxl> tsimonq2: i'd probably call it low.
[21:46] <tsimonq2> alright :)


[02:25] <bosnianboy> hi all
[02:25] <bosnianboy> got maybe a stupid question
[02:26] <sarnold> oh good, it's late friday evening here, stupid answers is all I've got :D
[02:26] <bosnianboy> :D
[02:27] <bosnianboy> http://pastebin.com/kwBkm6M9
[02:27] <bosnianboy> tried using ubuntu-vm-builder
[02:27] <bosnianboy> with these parameters
[02:27] <bosnianboy> and it gives me back these errors
[02:27] <bosnianboy> Preparing to unpack .../linux-image-virtual_<IP_ADDRESS>.38_amd64.deb ...
[02:27] <bosnianboy> Unpacking linux-image-virtual (<IP_ADDRESS>.38) ...
[02:27] <bosnianboy> , stderr: grep: /proc/cpuinfo: No such file or directory
[02:27] <bosnianboy> This kernel does not support a non-PAE CPU.
[02:27] <bosnianboy> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-image-3.13.0-32-generic_3.13.0-32.57_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[02:27] <bosnianboy> ubuntu 14.04 server
[02:28] <bosnianboy> tried kvm/qemy already
[02:28] <TJ-> bosnianboy: "uname -a" on the host?
[02:28] <bosnianboy> Linux ankebut 3.13.0-32-generic #57-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 15 03:51:08 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[02:30] <bosnianboy> and cpu supports pae
[02:33] <bosnianboy> TJ-, am I missing something ? :)
[02:34] <sarnold> bosnianboy: what does grep -i pae /proc/cpuinfo   show?
[02:34] <bosnianboy> for each core it shows flag line
[02:34] <sarnold> oh crazy, it says /proc/cpuinfo isn't found o_O are there any earlier errors?
[02:34] <sarnold> bosnianboy: ok, good good
[02:35] <bosnianboy> just a sec
[02:35] <bosnianboy> I'll give it a fresh run
[02:35] <bosnianboy> and pastebin the entire output
[02:35] <bosnianboy> maybe I missed something
[02:36] <TJ-> bosnianboy: bug #1037607
[02:36] <sarnold> wow
[02:36] <sarnold> I was ust reading the vmbuilder manpage, looks ancient and creaky
[02:37] <bosnianboy> I think it could be unrelated
[02:37] <bosnianboy> because I'm trying to install latest
[02:37] <bosnianboy> trusty
[02:38] <bosnianboy> are there any suggestions (tuts) for painless virtualization ?
[02:38] <sarnold> bosnianboy: the server team has a new hotness, uvtool, for installing VMs easily: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/cloud-images-and-uvtool.html  -- could be they decided fixing up vmbuilder wasn't worth the hassle. pity it's still shipped.
[02:38] <bosnianboy> sarnold, I'll give it a try
[02:39] <bosnianboy> uvt-kvm: error: libvirt: Network not found: no network with matching name 'default'
[02:39] <bosnianboy> how do I tell it to use different network name ?
[02:39] <sarnold> bosnianboy: the security team has a similar yet very different 'uvt' tool; I use uvt all the time but it really is aimed at the security team's needs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/TestingEnvironment
[02:39] <bosnianboy> " uvt-kvm create test" was the command
[02:40] <sarnold> bosnianboy: (probably the effort involved in even getting uvt installed isn't worht the hassle if uvtool can work for you..)
[02:40] <TJ-> bosnianboy: That bug still affects Trusty. It also contains a workaround
[02:41] <sarnold> TJ-: oh! nice.
[02:43] <bosnianboy> needed the xml
[02:43] <bosnianboy> managed to create with uvt
[02:46] <sarnold> hrm, just how much is this uvt-simplestreams-libvirt sync command downloading? :)
[02:47] <bosnianboy> ages
[02:47] <bosnianboy> :D
[02:47] <sarnold> hehe, I'm starting to think I should have specified only one release hehe
[02:48] <bosnianboy> but... here we go again :D
[02:48] <bosnianboy> uvt-kvm wait test-trusty --insecure
[02:48] <bosnianboy> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: u'/var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/default.leases'
[02:48]  * sarnold sobs
[02:48] <sarnold> dnsmasq
[02:49] <TJ-> does the file/directory exist?
[02:49] <TJ-> libvirt is responsible for starting and configuring that private instance of dnsmasq
[02:52] <bosnianboy> nope, TJ-, the file does not exist
[02:53] <bosnianboy> a bit unrelated question
[02:53] <bosnianboy> how could I increase cinder volume max size (80GB) for openstack
[05:52] <circ-user-5wiJL> #leave
[07:34] <lordievader> Good morning.
[16:47] <blaaa> I have created a ipsec.conf for strongswan 5.1.2: http://sprunge.us/VYMg
[16:47] <blaaa> I can connect to the service, but eventually there is a timeout
[16:47] <blaaa> on the server, the following is logged: http://sprunge.us/SLFC
[16:47] <blaaa> What can cause the (repetition of) request with ID 1 to retransmitted
[16:47] <blaaa> ?
[17:48] <Repox> Hi. I've just been the victim of a security exploit which means that my server has been used for a DDoS attack. The problem was that an application (ElasticSearch) was reachable on port 9200 and allowed for arbitrary executing on my server. I was tipped on the possible cause and it seems like it was spot on. But how can I "discover" this? Or better yet, monitor it?
[17:58] <Patrickdk> you don't?
[17:58] <Patrickdk> normal server monitoring will detect this
[17:58] <Patrickdk> bandwidth usage sudden increases
[17:58] <Patrickdk> firewall block attempts sudden increases
[17:59] <Patrickdk> programs running on the server that shouldn't be
[17:59] <PryMar56> its a java app
[17:59] <Patrickdk> doesn't matter what it is
[18:00] <Repox> Patrickdk, well, I wasn't warned about it, because I have no monitoring. I'm new at maintaining this myself. I've added the appropriate firewall rules, but haven't got an idea as to how to 'discover' this in time.
[18:07] <Patrickdk> not sure why you should be warned about it, if you didn't setup anything to warn you
[18:13] <Repox> Patrickdk, that's kind of my real question. What should I setup to get some monitoring and some heads-up when something is wrong?
[20:04] <Roguehorse> Repox: Some info in here might help you, sorry to hear about your dilemma : (   http://askubuntu.com/questions/9107/what-tools-do-you-use-to-monitor-a-web-server
[20:05] <Patrickdk> nagios won't really help
[20:05] <Patrickdk> munin can, need to setup lots of alerts
[20:05] <Patrickdk> and probably some extra plugin detections
[20:05] <Patrickdk> same deal with cacti
[20:05] <Patrickdk> nothing else useful there
[20:05] <Patrickdk> tripwire could be handy, depending
[20:19] <RoyK> I vouch for munin as well, or graphite
[20:20] <RoyK> munin has a ton of plugins and new ones can be written easily
[20:20] <RoyK> graphite scales better, or so they say, but uninett.no has deployed graphite lately and it shows it doesn't scale too well either
[20:21] <RoyK> we monitor 100ish servers with munin, and it works with good storage
[20:21] <RoyK> Roguehorse: how many servers?
[20:34] <Patrickdk> royk, using rrdcache? that helped a crapload
[20:35] <Patrickdk> no more need for me to use a ramdisk
[20:39] <RoyK> Patrickdk: works well now, even without a ramdrive or rrdcache
[20:40] <RoyK> Patrickdk: graphite installation is administrered by uninett.no, not me, and they chose to setup a separate box with SSDs for the graphite stuff
[20:47] <Patrickdk> :)
[20:47] <Patrickdk> mine isn't ssd yet, should be soon
[20:47] <Patrickdk> but rrdcache works well
[21:10] <liox_> hi
[21:13] <liox_> after a downgrade of apache and php vps broke my access to webmail
[21:13] <liox_> see
[21:13] <liox_> agenciazig.com.br/webmail
[21:14] <liox_> instead of accessing the roundcube webmail he's trying to download a file
[21:14] <liox_> my vps is ubuntu 12.04 with ISPConfig panel
[21:15] <liox_> got back all my vhosts after the downgrade minus the roundcube webmail
[21:15] <liox_> dominio.com when access / webmail it tries to download a configuration file roundcube
[21:17] <Roguehorse> RoyK: I'm just managing mine and a couple others remotely (mostly content management)
[21:18] <liox_> Please could someone help me?
[21:20] <RoyK> Roguehorse: then munin should do that well
[21:22] <RoyK> Roguehorse: munin works well in small environments, something like <100 servers
[21:22] <linuxthefish> 01545fa976c8367b4f0d59169ac4866c  ubuntu-14.04-server-amd64.iso
[21:22] <linuxthefish> is this valid?
[21:22] <linuxthefish> md5sum
[21:23] <linuxthefish> i write the iso to usb using dd and it won't boot!
[21:23] <Roguehorse> RoyK: What about >100?
[21:24] <RoyK> Roguehorse: given good I/O on the storage, it should scale well
[21:24] <RoyK> Roguehorse: how many servers?
[21:25] <RoyK> Roguehorse: try<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:32] <Roguehorse> RoyK: LOL! Reading the web page at the top reminded me of Rick Moen http://linuxmafia.com/ .... ah, and it's written in Perl :)
[21:37] <liox_> plis helpme
[21:37] <liox_> roundcube broken access
[21:37] <liox_> see
[21:37] <liox_> agenciazig.com.br/webmail
[21:38] <Roguehorse> RoyK: Funny how all things end up linked together
[21:39] <Roguehorse> Well, gotta run ... have homework to get through and chatting isn't going to solve that for me :)
[21:40] <Roguehorse> RoyK: Guess I forgot to specify the page huh? http://munin-monitoring.org/
[21:41] <linuxthefish> is there a DVD release?
[22:03] <liox_> My alias / webmail is not interpreting php it tries to download the indx.php what can be? can someone help me?
[22:03] <liox_> ops index.php
[22:56] <MavKen> I have a lot of subdomains on my server... is it ok to just have a wldcard * a record or keep adding a new a record for each one?
[23:53] <liox_> plis help me
[23:54] <liox_> after a downgrade in my apache vps access to webmail was broken instead of opening the page it tries to download the php file the rest of the virtual host are working normally


[13:43] <robinsmidsrod> are there any plans to allow upstart to start specific jobs as a specific user?
[13:44] <ion> yes
[13:45] <robinsmidsrod> having to use "su" to switch user and then running the command keeps a lot of su processes running, and the pid reported by upstart is actually the su process instead of the actual app
[13:45] <ion> yep
[13:49] <ashb> robinsmidsrod: sudo instead of su might work slightly better, no?
[13:55] <warly> Hello, I have a simple question regarding writing upstart command. I would like to have a script run when entering runlevel 4, and run again when quitting runlevel 4, is there a way to do that with upstart ?
[13:57] <ashb> stats on runlevel[4]
[13:57] <ashb> or similar
[13:59] <warly> stats ?
[14:00] <warly> You may mean start. Actually starting the script on entering runlevel 4 is ok, but I cannot really manage to have it run again when leaving runlevel 4
[14:01] <ion> start on runlevel 4
[14:02] <ion> stop on runlevel [!4]
[14:02] <ion> post-start exec yourthing
[14:02] <ion> pre-stop exec yourthing
[14:03] <warly> ion: thanks I will try that!
[14:03] <ion> Actually, maybe make that pre-start and post-stop.
[16:01] <fancybit> hi
[16:01] <fancybit> my ubuntu don't have the /etc/inittab file, so where should I start my reading of the script?
[16:04] <fancybit> I browsed the web of upstart, seems no manual but only blueprints
[16:04] <fancybit> That's the only way to study?
[16:04] <fancybit> ...
[16:05] <warly> fancybit: have you looked at http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/ ?
[16:55] <fancybit> yes
[17:40] <salman> Hi. I'm trying to find some documentation on how to implement the equivalent of kb::kbrequest in an upstart script... could someone link me to the docs?
[17:40] <salman> tried a wiki search but nothing turned up


[02:37] <onefabric> Greetings. How do I receive http requests from a client browser and take POST / GET variables from it?
[02:38] <onefabric> I understand that 'env' is to be used, but I am finding it hard to figure out what the exact command / words are.


[12:02] <davidm> #startmeeting
[12:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:02. The chair is davidm.
[12:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:03] <davidm> StevenK, persia lool ogra everyone here?
[12:03]  * persia waves
[12:04]  * ogra wiggles his hand in the air
[12:04]  * StevenK shores
[12:05]  * persia is broken, and retreats
[12:05] <davidm> Ha
[12:05] <lool> hry
[12:06] <davidm> OK were are all here and accounted for :-)
[12:06] <davidm> Well sort of anyway, I'm on my first cup of coffee
[12:06] <davidm> hi amitk
[12:06] <amitk> hi davidm
[12:07] <StevenK> Okay, so we have persia, me, ogra, amitk and about 1/3rd of davidm
[12:07] <lool> ...
[12:07]  * persia completely failed to actually edit the agenda before the meeting, but wants to talk about using a desktop manager
[12:07] <davidm> There ya go
[12:07] <StevenK> Oh, sorry, lool. :-(
[12:08] <StevenK> I missed you in my haste to make a joke
[12:08] <davidm> OK we did not have a meeting last week as most were gone holiday, meetings or something eles
[12:08] <davidm> The agenda page is pretty empty today.
[12:09] <jcarp> Greetings, is this the correct meeting for Ubuntu Mobile?
[12:09] <persia> jcarp, It is.
[12:09] <amitk> StevenK: 1/3rd of me too. The other 2/3rds is foraging for food
[12:09] <davidm> So does anyone have anything status wise that is notable?  At this point we really have inports for the most part
[12:09] <StevenK> Haha
[12:09] <ogra> imports, merges, spec writing ...
[12:10] <ogra> the usual post release - pre UDS stuff ...
[12:10]  * lool was on VAC and will be away next week as well
[12:11] <lool> StevenK: I'm happy to take some merges from you as I don't think I have any remaining; if you have some GNOME-ish stuff in particular
[12:11] <StevenK> I've been on VAC for Monday and Tuesday, and working on non-public things for the past two days.
[12:11] <StevenK> lool: I suspect most of my merges will go away.
[12:12] <ogra> where will they go then ?
[12:12]  * ogra is in philosophical mood ....
[12:12] <StevenK> lool: I just need to look at them
[12:12] <ogra> wow ... i wish mine were so easy
[12:13] <ogra> but moode ist that easily scared ... i guess i have to touch it (kees asked me to merge it)
[12:13] <ogra> *moodle
[12:14] <davidm> Then we have merges under control.
[12:15] <davidm> Lets talk about UDS then quickly, do we have all spec's in place for UDS?  amitk do you have any input for UDS for us?
[12:15]  * ogra hasnt set up the blueprints yet ... will do that on the weekend
[12:15] <lool> I think people have been thinking about specs, or discussions, but we need to make blueprints out of them
[12:15] <amitk> davidm: i'd like to know what devices we should support out-of-the-box and what is broken in them
[12:16] <ogra> blueprints and at least empty wikipages
[12:16] <StevenK> I need to sort out specs
[12:16] <lool> amitk: For now, I think we should revisit the jax10 and Q1U with jaunty and sum up what we miss
[12:16]  * persia should write some specs as well
[12:16] <amitk> davidm: eeePC, samsung Q1, jax10
[12:16] <amitk> etc.
[12:16]  * persia hopes the D4 can make that list
[12:17] <amitk> lool: ack
[12:17] <ogra> yes, we should look at eee
[12:17] <ogra> but we dont have HW in the team afaik
[12:17] <lool> At least the jax10 needs quite some work, not all trivial
[12:17] <davidm> That is a good question we should have some review of that at UDS, with an eye to what can really be supported.
[12:17] <ian_brasil> gps would be nice too
[12:17] <lool> I had in mind that we could have some wiki page per device with the main status for some support
[12:17] <persia> Perhaps a session "Bring your MID or UMPC for review"?
[12:18] <lool> e.g. bluetooth: works, wifi: restricted etc.
[12:18] <lool> ogra: You mean for the d4?
[12:18] <persia> cgregan had started something like that.  I'll see if I can find it, and move it to the right place.
[12:18] <davidm> persia, thanks
[12:18] <amitk> lool: I did such a page for a laptop-enabling here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AmitKucheria/LaptopEnablingOnHardy
[12:18] <lool> Since I'm subscribed to umpcportal, I saw a bunch of jax10 devices come out
[12:19] <ogra> lool, for eeePC
[12:19] <lool> amitk: Cool; also, I wonder whether we should also provision some hardware support db
[12:19] <lool> ogra: Indeed
[12:19] <ogra> lool, they are differing massively between the models :/
[12:19] <davidm> OK who is going to run with this for a spec and blueprint?
[12:19] <StevenK> persia: I like it!
[12:20] <lool> Hmm I'd like to understand better how this would work as a spec or blueprint
[12:21] <davidm> I like the original question, what devices are we supporting out-of-the-box
[12:21] <davidm> so we can come away with a target for JJ
[12:21] <ogra> yeah
[12:21] <persia> Well, it make sense as a session, and we can review what works and doesn't for each candidate HW, and then decide what needs fixing.
[12:22] <amitk> davidm: and a list of bugs to fix
[12:22] <persia> The blueprint/spec probably has to be written post-session.
[12:22] <persia> amitk, We can file the bugs in the session :)
[12:22] <ogra> the "Mobile BYO HW session" ?
[12:22] <lool> So, if I take that into a session description: "Discussion on hardware support status for misc devices"?
[12:23] <davidm> lool, that seems to make sense to me
[12:23] <lool> Or is this about allocating time to support some devices, or about ways in which we should track hardware support status?
[12:23] <persia> Probably worth adding a note somewhere that people should bring hardware.
[12:23] <StevenK> It isn't so much a spec, though
[12:23] <lool> Ok; hardware support status/testing hackfest session so to speak
[12:23] <StevenK> It's more a roundtable
[12:23]  * persia thinks it's about understanding what isn't supported so sensible allocation of resources can be made for makeing more work
[12:23] <amitk> lool: "misc" devices? I would like a list of "first-class" devices
[12:23] <persia> amitk, "first-class" would be the most popular of those brought to the session, no?
[12:24] <lool> amitk: I think your question lead to proposing a session for a similar question
[12:24] <amitk> persia: no. you have obscure devices that are not available in most other parts of the world :-p
[12:24] <lool> amitk: In the end, we need to decide which devices we focus our efforts on
[12:24] <persia> amitk, Well, that probably means I don't get "first-class" then (as much as I wish it were otherwise)
[12:24] <amitk> I am suggesting picking 3-4 of the most popular devices out there and supporting them
[12:24] <davidm> [action] davidm to add session for UDS on "Discussion on hardware support status for devices roundtable."
[12:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to add session for UDS on "Discussion on hardware support status for devices roundtable."
[12:24] <lool> Constrained with availability of the devices and time
[12:25] <davidm> OK I think we can work with this off-line to develop the topic
[12:25] <davidm> persia, you had a topic you wanted to cover?
[12:26] <persia> Yes.
[12:26] <persia> I want to switch MID to use a desktop manager for the session, rather than /etc/event.d/session
[12:26] <ogra> he wants to hire a desktop manager :)
[12:26] <persia> Initial fiddling about with xdm is promising, but I wondered if others felt we ought use gdm or something.
[12:26] <lool> persia: a desktop or display manager?
[12:26] <ogra> how well/bad supported is xdm ?
[12:27] <persia> Maybe "display manager".  I'm not sure.
[12:27] <ogra> the latter :)
[12:27] <ogra> i dont think xdm gets much attention anywhere
[12:27] <ogra> not even upstream
[12:27] <persia> ogra, It's in universe, but comes from the X sources, and is part of the ubuntu-desktop task.
[12:27] <ogra> but gdm is becoming a bad beast
[12:28] <ogra> the new gdm will run its own user session, fire up NM and GPM
[12:28] <persia> gdm just seems a little heavy for -mid, and I'm not sure if I can customise the session in a way that doesn't break anything else.
[12:28] <ogra> and GSS
[12:28] <ogra> in that state it wont be suitable for MID at all
[12:28] <davidm> persia, for the record, why do would we want to switch from /etc/event.d/session to a  desktop manager?
[12:28] <davidm> Your thoughts behind this?
[12:28] <davidm> So other folks looking in can understand
[12:29] <lool> persia: I think Colin mentionned a lightweight display manager used for some project; it's really a dummy one
[12:29] <lool> persia: But more importantly, I'm fine with the idea but would like to document the rationale behind it
[12:29] <persia> davidm, Several benefits: it allows usernames other than "ubuntu", it allows several users, it allows use of oem-setup, it reduces race conditions, and it helps reduce the number of "touching this crashed X" bugs.
[12:29] <ogra> its not hard to write a display manager either
[12:30] <ogra> i wrote the first iteration of ldm over a weekend for ltsp
[12:30] <lool> I disagree with the first reason, find the second one not so important and think we should fix the fourth reason
[12:30] <ogra> the thing is that we want the functionallity, not necessarily the display manager itself
[12:30] <persia> lool, something like slim?
[12:30] <lool> Could be
[12:30] <lool> I can tell that it would allow switching between environments/sessions
[12:31] <persia> lool, OK.  First reason is that it's a simple way to implement it :)  There are other ways.
[12:31] <lool> And it would setup CK more elegantly
[12:31] <lool> I'm not too motivated with the multi-user use case, but I don't mind
[12:32] <StevenK> Personally, I would prefer it.
[12:32] <StevenK> It would save us a bunch of headaches
[12:32]  * ogra wonders if slim or any other lightweight DM would actually help with any of that
[12:32] <ogra> (CK, PK etc i mean)
[12:33] <ogra> i doubt they actually follow that concept closely
[12:33] <ogra> it would mean much hackery on our side if they dont
[12:33] <lool> ogra: I think the DM I discussed with Colin was actually a proposal to fix CK support, but I might not recall exactly the motivation
[12:33] <persia> ogra, So you're suggesting writing a new one rather than extending one of those to do that?
[12:33] <ogra> persia, nope
[12:34] <ian_brasil> be nice to start the accessibility layer with the DM too
[12:34] <ogra> i'm just pointing out that kdm and gdm are currently the only ones giving us what we want out of the box
[12:34] <ogra> and that if the patching gets to much it might be easier to write our own
[12:34] <ogra> that needs to be judged carefully before even starting work
[12:34] <persia> Well, as previously noted, gdm is a little heavy, especially when one considers the future roadmap.
[12:34] <ogra> right
[12:35] <ogra> kdm would force qt in
[12:35] <persia> Right, which leaves slim, xdm, wdm, etc.
[12:35] <ogra> slim is likely not where we need it yet
[12:35] <ogra> login.app (from windowmaker) very likely not either, nor xdm
[12:36] <ogra> if you want CK and PK support you will need to patch
[12:36] <ogra> and probably work against upstream
[12:36] <persia> Well, is it worth trying to add CK and PK support to xdm?
[12:36] <lool> persia: I really would like the reasons for using a dm to be crystal clear and solid
[12:36] <lool> My concerns are that it will effectively augment used disk space and boot time
[12:37] <ogra> siwthcing environments and proper session handling would be the only reasons i see ...
[12:37] <lool> That's fine if we have good reasons for using one
[12:37] <ogra> the latter should be fixable in the session script we use atm though
[12:37] <lool> Yeah, that's the reason I would have as well
[12:37] <persia> lool, I can see that.  I'm just trying to make a class of problems go away.  If you think it's really better to implement all of this in /etc/event.d/session, we can do it that way, but I feel that much of the problem is aldeady solved by a display manager.
[12:37] <lool> I know using startx breaks a couple of things and bring its own issues
[12:38] <lool> And switching sessions is desirable given that we have hildon and gnome based sessions
[12:38] <ogra> lets put a review session on the UDS agenda
[12:38] <ogra> and lets take a look at the effort involved for each solution
[12:39] <ogra> and if we would work against upstream or not
[12:39] <ogra> i imagine windowmaker people dont really desire PK/CK for example
[12:39] <persia> OK.  I'll stop fiddlig with it and just write a spec then.
[12:39] <davidm> [action] persia to write a spec for UDS on using a desktop manager for MID
[12:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write a spec for UDS on using a desktop manager for MID
[12:40] <lool> I'm fine with the move, but think it's best to have a session on using a dm and which one to use
[12:40] <persia> display manager :)
[12:40] <davidm> [action] persia to write a spec for UDS on using a display manager for MID (correction)
[12:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write a spec for UDS on using a display manager for MID (correction)
[12:40] <ogra> yeah
 I don't know if scott would appreciate being used :>
[12:40] <ogra> and review pro and con
[12:40] <lool> Also, this will allow covering the two images, how the dm acts with e.g. UNR versus GNOME versus hildon, and will document why we use one
[12:41] <ogra> lifeless, we're a team, he's alone ... no choice for him, muhahaha
[12:41] <ogra> lool, for gnome environments we should stick with gdm
[12:41] <davidm> Sounds good, OK we still have an empty agenda page so does anyone else have a topic for this meeting?  If not I'm inclined to close the meeting
[12:41] <ogra> if you can run gnome on the HW gdm wont be to fat
[12:42] <ogra> if you have a MID with 128M wasting 10M for an idling GDM you never use is different
[12:43] <persia> That's sortable separately, and can wait on the discussion.
[12:43] <ogra> yeah
[12:43] <lool> Let's keep this for the session then?
[12:43] <ogra> yep
[12:44] <davidm> Any additional topics for this meeting?
[12:44] <ogra> everyone should take a look at his favorite DM before UDS though :)
[12:44] <StevenK> Haha
[12:44] <lool> ogra: You don't want to know
[12:44] <davidm> endmeeting going once.........................................................................................
[12:44] <StevenK> My favourite DM is xterm
[12:44] <ogra> thats not a DM by debian definition :P
[12:44]  * persia used to use emacs as a DM
[12:44] <lool> If I ever tell you what I use, you'll call me partial
[12:45] <ogra> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/x-display-manager
[12:45] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://packages.debian.org/lenny/x-display-manager
[12:46] <davidm> endmeeting going twice.............................................
[12:47]  * ogra twiddles thumbs
[12:48] <davidm> #endmeeting
[12:48] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:48.
[12:48] <davidm> Thanks
[12:48] <ogra> thanks
[14:06] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[14:23]  * persia cancels the Java meeting for lack of attendance.


[01:05] <mlankhorst> could someone rebuild mesa from git? I picked up a fix to build with new libdrm
[01:17] <mlankhorst> hm oops messed up somewhere along the lines
[01:23] <mlankhorst> or not, just some rename fail
[06:41] <tjaalton> meh, mesa still not past -proposed
[06:41] <tjaalton> precise-proposed
[06:42] <tjaalton> wonder if it's still ok to add a patch on top of that
[08:11] <mlankhorst> tjaalton: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport/+packages :)
[08:18] <mlankhorst> missing a patch for xserver-xorg-video-nouveau with old abi to build against new libdrm
[08:29] <mlankhorst> uploaded unrenamed: mesa (build patch for new libdrm), libdrm, x11proto-(dri2,gl,randr), xxv-nouveau (build patch for new libdrm)
[08:34] <mlankhorst> oh and libxrandr but that's because I wanted to test some prime stuff
[09:42] <mlankhorst> omg.. it works
[09:43] <mlankhorst> wow
[09:43] <mlankhorst> apt-get remove .*lts-quantal.* deleted the new stack and reinstalled the old one
[09:44] <mlankhorst> or at least tried to
[10:08] <mlankhorst> apt-get remove .*lts-quantal.*  xserver-xorg-{video,input}-all; xserver-xorg-core gets reverted to unrenamed version; apt-get install xorg, all old drivers get reinstalled.
[11:04] <mlankhorst> trying to see if I can fix it both ways now :)
[11:43] <apw> tjaalton, quick testing on the new X stack seems ok.  i do note a new flash to black as it starts
[11:45] <mlankhorst> apw: I'm testing switching back and forth now :)
[11:49] <apw> mlankhorst, cool :)
[11:49] <mlankhorst> I want to be able to switch with a single apt-get install, back and forth
[11:52] <apw> mlankhorst, that would rock indeed for the DVD
[11:54] <mlankhorst> apw: yeah now that I removed some of the other scary parts it became a lot easier :)
[11:59] <mlankhorst> wow.. getting there, just need to make xserver-xorg virtual package conflict with all renamed lts packages out there..
[12:01] <mlankhorst> and then apt-get remove .*lts-quantal.* works :D
[12:32] <mlankhorst> SUCCESSSSSS
[12:44] <apw> mlankhorst, nice well done
[12:49] <LLStarks> mlankhorst, have you cherrypicked the mesa patch for prime?
[12:50] <LLStarks> i think that's all that may be missing from the stack update for q
[13:03] <mlankhorst> LLStarks: not yet, I wanted to test mechanics more
[13:03] <mlankhorst> switching back and forth
[13:18] <LLStarks> mlankhorst, http://lekensteyn.nl/files/prime-instructions.txt
[13:18] <LLStarks> pretty good tutorial
[13:23] <mlankhorst> LLStarks: seeing that I have been working on the kernel side of things I know how it works :)
[13:23] <mlankhorst> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~mlankhorst/linux
[14:16] <tjaalton> mlankhorst: nice :)
[14:16] <tjaalton> apw: thanks for testing. we'll push xserver rc3 there next week, it might fix some issues
[14:37] <mlankhorst> oops.. it's doing exactly what it should be doing, which is why it broke with lts-quantal currently, SIGH :P
[15:52] <mlankhorst> tjaalton: and down to .. apt-get install xserver-xorg or xserver-xorg-lts-quantal
[15:55] <mlankhorst> or mostly.. removal is still a pain point
[15:58] <mlankhorst> maybe xserver-common will need to conflict with xserver-common-lts-quantal
[21:50] <Sarvatt> jcristau: isn't a pre-depends: needed for that?
[21:50] <jcristau> xz?
[21:50] <mlankhorst> Sarvatt: I replaced all the Breaks: with Conflicts.. downgrade works
[21:50] <mlankhorst> no more problems :)
[21:51] <mlankhorst> it's still scary that the idea worked on first try, though
[21:51] <Sarvatt> oh just looked it up and i'm out of date here, already irrelevant and was a ubuntu specific thing, sorry for the noise
[21:53] <Sarvatt> we'll need to fix that when we SRU, or just keep lzma that the ubuntu branch is using because it didn't need the pre-depends (note to anyone that might update mesa in precise) :P
[21:53] <jcristau> Sarvatt: there's an attempt to make more stuff fit on wheezy cd1
[21:53] <jcristau> xz for libgl1-mesa-dri is a 10MB win, aiui
[21:54] <Sarvatt> it really does help a lot, yeah
[21:54] <Sarvatt> gallium core was an even bigger win
[21:54] <mlankhorst> ugh why does xorg-server sometimes fails to build by hanging?
[21:54] <Sarvatt> not upstream until 8.1 though so would need a huge patch for 8.0
[21:55] <Sarvatt> 116_use_shared_galliumcore.diff in the ubuntu branch if another 10mb+ win is worth it :P
[21:55] <jcristau> yeah xz is easier
[21:56] <jcristau> i don't want to add a huge mesa patch in the middle of a freeze :)
[21:56] <Sarvatt> indeed
[21:56] <mlankhorst> Sarvatt: hey if you want to test I can switch now between xorg-precise and xorg-quantal by installing xserver-xorg or xserver-xorg-lts-quantal, this is why I want to SRU libdrm :)
[21:57] <Sarvatt> absolutely no clue about cd size limitations in debian or i would have brought it up earlier, sorry about that
[21:58] <jcristau> i don't think it matters much
[21:58] <jcristau> most people are going to either enable network, or use a dvd
[22:01] <mlankhorst> With the succesful switching between xorg-quantal and back, and dma-fence implemented it's time for me to take a month vacation. AFK :P
[22:04] <jcristau> mlankhorst: enjoy