[01:51] <lifeless> poolie: http://www.network-theory.co.uk/cgi-bin/ghm.cgi?
[02:23] <thumper> lifeless: hey, perhaps you can help with something
[02:23] <thumper> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~agilence/+junk/tonomundo/changes shows last revision is 192
[02:24] <thumper> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~agilence/+junk/tonomundo/.bzr/branch/last-revision shows last revision is 13
[02:24] <thumper> any idea what causes this?
[02:25] <poolie> that's odd
[02:25] <thumper> I've seen it happen before
[02:25] <thumper> but I can't remember why, or what we did to fix it
[02:25] <poolie> i think we had some bugs in the past where the cached last revno could be wrong
[02:25] <poolie> it's possible that pushing using a buggy client could get it wrong
[02:25] <poolie> is there a bug for this, or is it causing a crash?
[02:26] <thumper> bug 599492
[02:26] <poolie> lifeless, does that ring any bells with you?
[02:28] <poolie> spiv^^
[02:28] <nekohayo> hey there, what's up with nested trees/submodules support? I see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/bzr/+spec/nested-tree-support being dead for 4 years!
[02:29] <poolie> nekohayo, hi, i would recommend you use scmproj
[02:29] <poolie> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/scmproj-plugin.html
[02:29] <thumper> poolie: is that the official answer now?
[02:30] <nekohayo> poolie, actually I'm asking this because I'm dying having to use git to pull pitivi... I'd like to be able to use bzr-git
[02:30] <thumper> poolie: what about submodule support for bzr-git?
[02:30] <poolie> thumper, that's not on our plate at the moment
[02:30]  * thumper nods
[02:30] <spiv> poolie: no bells other than "this used to happen sometimes in the past"
[02:30] <thumper> I've asked on the bug about the client bzr version
[02:30] <spiv> 'bzr reconcile' ought to fix it.
[02:31] <nekohayo> is it on some not-so-far roadmap or ETA, or should I not expect this within years?
[02:31] <lifeless> thumper: hi, sorry
[02:31] <nekohayo> (I can't provide a patch, sadly)
[02:31] <thumper> nekohayo: I think decisions were made at a recent sprint to allow nested trees to work as a plugin initially
[02:32] <lifeless> yes
[02:32] <thumper> nekohayo: to clear the road for some development on it
[02:32] <lifeless> thumper: so I think that that indicates a 'wrong' last-revision file in the branch.
[02:32] <thumper> nekohayo: but I don't know if anyone is moving with it right now
[02:32] <thumper> lifeless: yes...
[02:32] <lifeless> thumper: if the user runs 'bzr reconcile' bzr will rewrite it.
[02:32] <thumper> lifeless: and push again?
[02:32] <thumper> lifeless: or we should reconcile the LP version?
[02:33] <lifeless> push --overwrite (to force it to update)
[02:33] <lifeless> or reconcile, and the next push that actually does stuff should fix it automatically.
[02:33] <lifeless> you could reconcile the LP version too
[02:33] <thumper> can you reconcile a remote branch?
[02:34] <lifeless> yes but its a tad slow
[02:36] <spiv> The user will probably need to reconcile their local copy too.
[02:41] <thumper> thanks
[02:41] <thumper> bug has been updated
[02:43] <lifeless> thumper: nested trees - marius kruger is interested in running with it, but hes out of cycles
[03:16] <poolie> spiv, in the 2.2.0 milestone page, how many bugs does it say under "assigned to you"
[03:16] <poolie> the actual field, not adding it up yourself
[03:16] <lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/2.2.0 ? yes fail.
[03:17] <lifeless> using caching is hard.
[03:17] <poolie> it seems like in principle you could warn about that
[03:17] <lifeless> Vary
[03:17] <lifeless> In general we want Vary on everything that is cachable.
[03:18] <lifeless> Because there are so many...variations :P
[03:19] <poolie> mm
[03:29] <lifeless> thumper: bzrlib/tests/blackbox/test_serve.py
[03:30] <thumper> lifeless: ta
[03:30] <lifeless> 12 tests
[03:30] <lifeless> 336 lines; balance is ok but its a lot of complexity
[04:01] <parthm> poolie: hi
[04:13] <idnar> argh
[04:13] <idnar> so I have a branch, which I've committed several revisions to
[04:14] <idnar> and now I realise that in one of the earlier revisions, I accidentally removed a file and readded it elsewhere, instead of using bzr mv
[04:15] <idnar> is there an easier way to fix the branch up besides creating a new branch and manually replaying the revisions on this one, one at a time?
[04:22] <idnar> hmm, I'm going to try making a copy of the branch, uncommitting past the faulty revision, fixing it up, then rebasing the complete branch on top of that one
[04:28] <thumper> lifeless: it seems that push --overwrite didn't update the last revision: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/599492/comments/3
[04:33] <idnar> argh, now I have a "contents conflict"
[04:35]  * idnar continues hurtling down the rabbit hole
[04:38] <idnar> okay, I think that worked
[05:10] <lifeless> thumper: thanks
[07:18] <lifeless> vila: ping
[07:33] <vila> hi all !
[07:33] <vila> lifeless: pong
[07:34] <poolie> hi there vila
[07:34] <vila> lifeless: do GlobalConfig and LocationConfig objects sound like good candidates for bzrlib.state ?
[07:34] <poolie> how's it going?
[07:36] <vila> poolie: fine, I encounter funny details while working on the config file locks, like: lock info trying to access the config while locking it and lock trying to create the config dir to access a non-existent config file but I'm almost finished
[07:38] <lifeless> vila: hi, was looking for a 'ForceNeeded' error but couldn't see one
[07:38] <lifeless> vila: uhm, *if* they are currently getting globally memoised, sure.
[07:39] <lifeless> vila: but I wouldn't add anything to it that isn't already globally memoised.
[07:39] <lifeless> vila: I think we should have smaller lifetime context objects for such things.
[07:41] <vila> lifeless: the context here is that to fix the bug I need to lock write access but also read access which makes accessing the config more costly. On the other hand we actually almost always access the file for every config variable. The file is read/parsed and all (variable/value) tuples are indeed memoised... to be thrown away immediately
[07:41] <lifeless> vila: why do you need to lock read access?
[07:42] <lifeless> vila: that smells very wrong to me
[07:42] <vila> lifeless: since there is a very high suspicion (I couldn't get a corrupted conf file yet), it means two writers have been able to write to the same file at the same time. I see no reason to believe that a reader can't get a partial file while a writer is producing it
[07:43] <lifeless> vila: I think it would be a lot better to do the following:
[07:43] <lifeless>  - ensure that the file is written with our atomic-write facilities
[07:43] <vila> it is
[07:43] <lifeless> e.g. transport.put_bytes()
[07:43] <vila> well, no, it isn't
[07:43] <lifeless> in which case readers cannot get partial files
[07:44] <lifeless> and
[07:44] <lifeless>  - ensure that changes to it do not do so from stale data - changes should be 'lock, read, write, unlock', never 'read, lock, write, unlock'
[07:44] <vila> that's already done, with tests
[07:44] <lifeless>  - do that by making configs gotten without locking be immutable.
[07:45] <lifeless> so that we're not dependent on tests for correctness.
[07:45] <vila> the third point is guaranteed from the second one
[07:45] <lifeless> vila: no its not :)
[07:45] <vila> well, at least from the config object point of view, extending this rule to callers....
[07:45] <lifeless> vila: 1 word: plugins
[07:46] <lifeless> OTOH you may have done 3 already - I haven't seen your code.
[07:46] <lifeless> anyhow, if you have those three things, why do you need to lock when reading?
[07:46] <lifeless> locking is /very/ expensive and there is no way we should consider for more than an msec doing that on every execution of bzr
[07:46] <vila> I don't have the first yet
[07:46] <lifeless> it would also cause all sorts of bugs on readonly filesystems.
[07:46] <lifeless> vila: well, thats easy then :)
[07:47] <vila> config dir on read-only FS.... missed that one, not sure it's easy to achieve but no reason to make it harder
[07:47] <poolie> urk, yes, we should really not lock on read
[07:49] <vila> yet, even if the write is atomic, do we rely on the FS to keep providing the file content as it was when opened even if the path is no longer valid ?
[07:51] <lifeless> vila: there are a few cases. I think its ok. Its certainly no worse than today, right ?
[07:52] <vila> lifeless: no worse yes, at least we cover the concurrent writers which the bug seems to be about
[07:52] <lifeless> right.
[07:54] <vila> lifeless: regarding point 3 above (immutable), if you keep your config objects around, even if immutable, they can be come out of date, sharing them is a way to address the problem hence my question about state
[07:54] <vila> s/be come/become/
[07:54] <lifeless> vila: different problem
[07:54] <lifeless> vila: that can happen today.
[07:54] <vila> lifeless: yes
[07:54] <lifeless> vila: and I don't see any need to change any code beyond config.py for this patch; we want to fix 'concurrent writers', nothing less, nothing more.
[07:55] <lifeless> The reason to focus on the use case here is because we are generally happy with configs I think
[07:55] <vila> lifeless: I don't intend to fix more than needed, just discussing the problem while it's fresh
[07:55] <lifeless> there aren't other issues to tackle, unless we make them ;)
[07:56] <vila> lifeless: and also checking I understand how you intend bzrlib.state to be used ;)
[07:56] <vila> s//to use/
[07:56] <lifeless> vila: I want to delete it totally
[07:56] <vila> s!s///!!
[07:56] <mgz> Unsupported or unknown search engine!
[07:56] <lifeless> vila: but its a tool to transition existing global state from all over the library into one place.
[07:56] <lifeless> vila: which is better than the same state spread out.
[07:57] <vila> config files are global state, outside of the code currently, but still a global state
[07:57] <lifeless> vila: unless they are assigned to a global variable, they aren't for the purpose of this discussion.
[07:57] <lifeless> import universe is cheating!
[07:57] <vila> then I'm done :)
[07:58] <lifeless> cool
[08:06] <vila> using threads to test concurrent actors is yummy, I even just found away to avoid hangs (at least some) when the test fail...
[08:06] <vila> gee, that's typo day ! s/away/a way/
[08:06] <vila> freudian slip for get awat may be...
[08:07] <vila> away of course, couldn't avoid the typo there, story of my life :)
[11:28] <CaMason> Hi guys. I have a commit that introduced some good and bad changes on a file. What would be the best way to 'unpick' this file for a new commit?
[11:28] <jpds> CaMason: bzr shelve - is your friend.
[11:29] <CaMason> yes, I figured that would help
[11:31] <CaMason> so, should I get the copy of the file before the bad commit?
[16:21] <rubbs> CaMason: you may be able to uncommit and then shelve.
[16:22] <rubbs> bzr uncommit takes off the last commit and restores to that state IIRC
[16:53] <tsmith> bzr: ERROR: No module named _curses
[16:53] <tsmith> i'm on CentOS and CANNOT find th epython curses module
[16:58] <jelmer> vila: hey
[16:58] <jelmer> vila: your  lp:~vila/bzr/525571-lock-bazaar-conf-files branch has conflicts
[16:58] <maxb> tsmith: This should be provided by the Python installation itself, i.e. your Python installation is broken
[16:59] <tsmith> well that's good to know!
[16:59] <tsmith> i couldn't find source code for pycurses anywhere
[17:05] <vila> jelmer: wow, I was about to tell you I submitted this :)
[17:06] <jelmer> :-)
[17:06] <vila> jelmer: as far as bzr-svn is concerned, it should just me a matter of requiring 2.2 and changing the base class for subversion.conf
[17:06] <jelmer> ah, great
[17:07] <jelmer> vila: I'll give it a try when I get a chance, thanks very much for working on this (and I'm sure you'll also make the losas very happy)
[17:07] <vila> jelmer: that's only conflicts in NEWS, ignore them, news_merge is not configured on lp :-P
[17:07] <vila> jelmer: I only quickly skimmed config.py in bzr-svn, there seem to some duplication that may need to be removed though
[17:08] <vila> s/to some/to be some/
[17:09] <vila> jelmer: Overall: my feeling is that we were *very* unlucky to encounter concurrent writers, my proposal use the transport API to make the config write atomic, so this fixes the bug,
[17:10] <vila> s/,$/./
[17:12] <vila> jam: what was your tweak for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/cleanup/+merge/28306 ? osutils lazy imports ? Or was there more ?
[17:12] <jelmer> vila: there are a lot of imports running on the import slaves I guess
[17:13] <vila> jam: nevermind, I was looking at the wrong mp
[17:13] <jam> vila: I think just the osutils stuff
[17:13] <vila> jam: yes, sorry
[17:25] <JoshBrown> I've accidentally added my email to my name in all my commits, so I'm seeing something like: 'Josh Brown<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>- is there any way I can edit the logs to remove the duplicated email address?
[17:32] <maxb> I am confused. Why would I be getting a Contents conflict when I cherrypick a revision that adds a file?
[17:33] <maxb> oh, because I don't understand what -r N.. does
[17:50] <maxb> Eeek. This scares me.
[17:51] <maxb> I have a bzr-svn branch, and did a merge, and got bogus merge results
[17:51] <maxb> I ran the repository through fast-export|fast-import, and got saner merge results
[17:51] <maxb> bzr-svn must be doing something evil
[17:56] <vila> maxb: next time, try 'bzr st --show-ids'
[17:56] <maxb> vila: ok, what am I looking for?
[17:57] <vila> maxb: content conflicts are generally about conflicting *paths* with different file-ids
[17:57] <maxb> ah, right, you are speaking regarding my first problem
[17:57] <maxb> That turned out to be me misunderstanding the exclusiveness of the N in -r N..
[17:58] <vila> ha, sry for the noise then
[17:58] <maxb> np, you are right about the issue - I was merging a modify on a file-id which didn't have its addition merged
[17:58] <maxb> the other issue is unfortunately rather scarier
[18:19] <jam> vila:  I realize you are probably gone, but any thoughts on bug #530584
[18:19] <jam> like, does your resolve stuff have a 'bzr resolve --mine" for deleted files?
[18:20] <vila> jam: almost done but not quite, --mine should work for deleted files as well as long as they were deleted by the merge
[18:20] <vila> AFAIR
[18:20] <jam> vila: the point is to leave it deleted
[18:21] <jam> supersede changes in favor of considering the file deleted
[18:21] <jam> I don't fully understand what is flowing where yet, so i'm not 100% sure what is OTHER and what is THIS
[18:21] <vila> ha, yes, just -rereading the bug report
[18:22] <vila> that reminds me of some thoughts I had about making some --mine/--other "sticky" but I don't have the context anymore :-/
[18:23] <vila> something like a merge plugin based on a list of (file-id, --mine) or something
[18:24] <vila> or file path... anyway, some text file a user can still modify
[18:27] <jam> vila: have you upgraded your VBox yet?
[18:28] <vila> jam: no, given the changelog I see no urgency
[18:28] <jam> vila: oh, and I was timing 'ping bazaar.lp.net' and found it at 120ms from babune, is that normal?
[18:29] <jam> I thought you had 20ms ping time to lp
[18:29] <vila> jam: ha, right, I forgot to comment on that, no 20ms is indeed the "normal" lag
[18:29] <vila> at what time did you try ?
[18:29] <jam> just tested again and seem 120ms
[18:29] <jam> right now
[18:29] <vila> wow, indeed, never saw that !
[18:30] <jam> +20% packet loss
[18:30] <jam> but maybe because I used ^C
[18:30] <vila> 6% packet loss here ^C too
[18:30] <jam> yeah, without ^C and just doing -c 10 no loss
[18:30] <vila> after your mail I tested again and I got 20ms as expected
[18:30] <jam> I think it is just 1/num succeeded
[18:30] <vila> so it may depend on time of day ?
[18:31] <jam> absolutely possible, but surprising nonetheless
[18:31] <jam> that is a rather large swing
[18:31] <jam> and you still get *way* better downloads from http://bazaar.lp.net than I do
[18:32] <jam> at this instant, I have 110ms ping time (so lower than you)
[18:32] <jam> and it 'bounces' trying to cap 3Mbs
[18:32] <jam> although it does a better job than it did the other day
[18:33] <jam> and it just dropped to 200kB/s for a second or to
[18:33] <jam> 2
[18:33] <vila> hmm, the osutils tweak is more tricky than I thought, both 'import tempfile' and 'from tempfile import mkdtemp' are *required*
[18:35] <vila> of course I didn't ran the tests after such a small tweak :)
[18:40] <jam> vila: that's why we have pqm. Because I've certainly done things similarly.
[18:40] <vila> :-D
[18:42] <jam> vila: for your config locking patch
[18:42] <jam> should we be putting 'held' in the directory directly
[18:42] <jam> or should we be using a 'lock' subdir
[18:42] <jam> and what is the overhead time of locking/unlocking repeatedly? (how long are the locks maintained, etc)
[18:43] <vila> the locks are maintained very briefly we just output the config file textual content
[18:44] <jam> vila: sure, but I just did some timing and "lock_write() && unlock()" on Windows takes 10ms
[18:45] <vila> I think people won't mess up with a directory named 'lock', I'm less sure of that with a 'held' file and/or 'info'
[18:46] <jam> vila: also, what is the concurrency that we are trying to solve. Does it make sure to hold the lock open from the time the file is read until it is written?
[18:47] <vila> jam: No ! Only around the file being written. How could I forgot to explain that :-(
[18:47] <vila> could I have forgotten ?
[18:47] <jam> vila: I thought the problem with svn concurrency was that the read got out of sync with the other one
[18:47] <jam> was it actually having 2 writers on the same file?
[18:48] <vila> AIUI yes, hmm, yeah, that was mentioned on IRC I think
[18:48] <vila> and since the fix use an atomic write, the risk is really very low to mess up a reader
[18:49] <vila> It would require interrupting a read() of an opened file
[18:49] <jam> vila: if the problem is not using atomic write, then just doing that would 'fix' it, without the overhead of a lock dir
[18:49] <jam> and needing stuff like break-lock
[18:50] <vila> no
[18:50] <vila> the sequence is: lock; read ; set new value ; write; unlock
[18:51] <vila> no lock means races all over the place
[18:51] <jam> vila: you just said "No ! Only around the file being written."
[18:51] <vila> and even harder to diagnose bugs
[18:52] <jam> you then said: (12:50:16 PM) vila: the sequence is: lock; read ; set new value ; write; unlock
[18:52] <vila> eerk
[18:52] <jam> so which is it?
[18:52] <vila> dang it, I changed it after discussing it with lifeless this morning
[18:53] <vila> s/read/re-read/ would be more appropriate, but I've changed the method where the @needs_write_lock is used
[19:02] <vila> jam: fixed, I have to EOD, I'll try to provide a better explanation tomorrow
[19:02] <vila> jam: just pushing for now
[19:04] <vila> jam: and to answer your question: *it* is: lock ; re-read the config file ; set the new value ; write the config file ; unlock
[19:04] <jam> vila: k
[19:04] <jam> have a good night
[19:04] <vila> and @needs_write_lock must be set on all methods that *calls* _write_config_file
[19:05] <vila> and I have a bug in my test for catching this regression
[19:13] <vila> s/for catching/for not catching/, typo's day until the end... :)
[19:50] <dipnlik> hi, can I ask a bzr-svn question here?
[20:14] <rubbs> yes, I probably can't answer, but ask away, someone can help.
[20:14] <rubbs> dipnlik: ^^
[20:18] <dipnlik> oh, nevermind, now it's working again
[20:18] <rubbs> good to hear
[20:18] <rubbs> for future reference all things bzr can be asked here.
[20:18] <rubbs> some know more than others, but all questions get answered eventually
[20:19] <rubbs> well, maybe not all. but just about all.
[20:19] <dipnlik> i had a problem with tags, i created a tag with bzr but bzr-svn didn't auto-create the equivalent svn tag
[20:19] <rubbs> ah
[20:19] <rubbs> just curious how did you get it working? manually create the svn tag?
[20:19] <rubbs> I ask because I'm eventually going to be lead person on migrating from svn to bzr
[20:20] <dipnlik> after i created the first tag manually, the second one worked as expected
[20:20] <dipnlik> "manually" == "using svn cp"
[20:21] <dipnlik> and here we don't really intend to migrate the svn server, I just use bzr as a client because it's more user friendly and for some cheap local branches
[20:22] <dipnlik> sad thing is that when I merge local branches to the trunk their log messages don't go the svn repo, so I don't use them as much as I wanted to :|
[20:24] <rubbs> right, that's why we eventually will get rid of svn completely
[20:24] <rubbs> my plan is to get them to use bzr as a client first
[20:24] <rubbs> get used to the client, then switch out the server,
[20:25] <dipnlik> oh, nice plan
[20:28] <dipnlik> rubbs: didi you read http://www.szakmeister.net/blog/2010/may/30/bzr-svn-round-2/ (and the first one, linked on the 1st paragraph)?
[20:29] <dipnlik> I didn't read it all but it looks interesting
[20:32] <rubbs> no I haven't, but i will book mark it thanks!
[20:32] <rubbs> bookmark*
[20:55] <exarkun> If I have a bzr repository that I want to make public, but it contains some confidential information that I want to keep private, what should I do?
[21:12] <jam> exarkun: you might want to look at 'filter-branch' from bzr-fastimport
[21:12] <jam> it should allow you to rewrite the history into something similar, but with some bits removed
[21:12] <exarkun> Cool, thanks
[21:41] <lifeless> morning
[21:53] <jam> morning lifeless
[21:54] <lifeless> hiya
[22:11] <lifeless> vila:
[22:11] <lifeless> +    __doc__ = """\
[22:11] <lifeless> +    Break a dead lock on a repository, branch, working directory or config file.
[22:11] <lifeless> I'd prefer to see that spelt as
[22:11] <lifeless> __doc__ = \
[22:11] <lifeless> """Break...
[22:12] <lifeless> because having to actually think about what you were escaping hurt my brain
[22:16] <vila> lifeless: that's your brain telling you that you missed what is wrong (in both cases the newline is escaped), and what is wrong are the spaces I've added :-P
[22:16]  * vila lower the volume and goes back to bed :)
[22:16] <mgz> ...don't actually *need* to escape that docstring
[22:16] <mgz> *newline
[22:17] <mgz> it gets pulled off before anyone tries to print it
[22:17] <lifeless> vila: in one, the \ is inside the docstring content
[22:17] <lifeless> vila: so you
[22:17] <lifeless> 're escaping ^M
[22:18] <vila> mgz: no, lifeless got it right, there should be no spaces before "Break"
[22:18] <lifeless> and then the formatter strips it
[22:19] <mgz> the newline/spaces before 'Break' will always get stripped though, no?
[22:19] <vila> and in the other I escape ^M too and the scanner strips it
[22:19] <vila> mgz: no
[22:19] <mgz> some people do print blah.__doc__ rather than help(blah), but they're silly.
[22:20]  * vila off
[22:20] <mgz> okay, night.
[22:21] <mgz> I'm still confused as to what doesn't follow pep 257 stripping rules though.
[22:22] <mgz> the whole point of them is so you don't need to do weird backslash or dedent things.
[22:29] <TresEquis> why would you ever type '__doc__ = ...' instead of inlining the triple-quoted string?  That's just noise
[22:30] <lifeless> TresEquis: -O0
[22:30] <lifeless> TresEquis: there are two sorts of docstrings in bzrlib
[22:30] <lifeless> TresEquis: programmer docs and command help
[22:30] <lifeless> TresEquis: we don't want stripped binaries to lose the command help.
[22:31] <lifeless> mgz: I know, thus my asking vila to change ;)
[22:31] <TresEquis> scripts don't need stripping, anyway
[22:31] <lifeless> TresEquis: commands are not scripts
[22:31] <TresEquis> they don't even get compiled
[22:32] <lifeless> TresEquis: you've added an untrue assumption to the discussion
[22:32] <lifeless> pydoc bzrlib.builtins
[22:32] <lifeless> 'bzr' is the script
[22:32] <lifeless> and it has no functions or docstrings or anything
[22:32] <mgz> yeah, it's not like git with lots of teeny shell scripts
[22:32] <mgz> ...is git even like that any more?
[22:32] <TresEquis> you don't need to use -OO ever
[22:32] <lifeless> mgz: fsvo of
[22:33] <lifeless> TresEquis: the windows packagers folk saved a MB or something doing it
[22:33] <lifeless> TresEquis: so we happily acquiesced and helped them do it.
[22:33] <mgz> it was me.
[22:33] <mgz> easy change, was going for a slight startup speedup
[22:33] <TresEquis> docstrings aren't the same as comments
[22:33] <lifeless> mgz: thats right
[22:34] <TresEquis> but whatever
[22:34] <lifeless> TresEquis: I don't know why comments come into this
[22:34] <mgz> and I think having special, user-visible docstrings marked differently in the source is a good thing
[22:34] <TresEquis> sounds like you are using docstrings where you could use comments
[22:34] <lifeless> TresEquis: the compiled python files *are* smaller without docstrings for the bulk of the library.
[22:34] <mgz> even if it's not as significant a win as it might have been
[22:34] <lifeless> TresEquis: not at all. The bzrlib API has docstrings describing how to use functions in it.
[22:35] <TresEquis> if they need to be runtime-introspectable, then they shouldn't be stripped
[22:35] <mgz> they don't.
[22:35] <TresEquis> if they don't need to be runtime-introspecctible, then they could just be comments
[22:35] <lifeless> TresEquis: that would make pydoc useless
[22:35] <mgz> there are two different cases here
[22:35] <lifeless> TresEquis: I really don't know what you're saying here.
[22:35] <mgz> bzrlib being good to develop on
[22:36] <mgz> and bzr being used as a tool
[22:36] <mgz> we want decent docstrings for the first
[22:36] <TresEquis> if they need to show up in pydoc, then they need to be runtime introspectible
[22:36] <lifeless> TresEquis: not from a binary .exe
[22:36] <mgz> but no one with a packaged bzr cares about the method descriptions
[22:36] <lifeless> TresEquis: there are two separate sets of docstrings
[22:37] <TresEquis> nolo contendere, I guess
[22:38] <mgz> there's a thing about "never use -OO" in the python world, but this is one of the few sensible cases
[22:39]  * exarkun disbelieves
[22:39] <mgz> which bit? :)
[22:40] <exarkun> docstrings are great
[22:40] <exarkun> Python should try sucking less.  There's no particularly good reason for docstrings to make things bloated or slow.
[22:40] <mgz> right, so there shouldn't be a disincentive to use them over comment when you're shipping pyo files only
[22:41] <mgz> *comments
[22:41] <mgz> it's not uncommon with py2exe I think.
[22:42] <exarkun> py2exe is a different case, isn't it?
[22:42] <mgz> it's what bzr uses for the windows package
[22:42] <exarkun> It gives you an opaque blob you can ask Windows to execute.  Even if there are docstrings in there, you can't really find them, right?
[22:43] <mgz> right, so, why not remove them, which is what the change is.
[22:43] <exarkun> oh, I see
[22:43] <exarkun> I missed the one comment above where someone said "windows" ;P
[22:44] <mgz> as far as I can see, not an approach that works on nix, as users and developers will be working from the same package
[22:45] <mgz> so they'll always be on pyc anyway
[22:45] <lifeless> mgz: debian/ubuntu can build pyc's too - its an /etc config option
[22:45] <lifeless> mgz: whats tricky is choosing which level of pyo to build
[22:45] <lifeless> mgz: s/pyc/pyo/
[22:46] <mgz> yeah, and that's not something barry's __pycache__ thing has done anything about I believe
[22:46] <TresEquis> trading off the cost of this discussion vs. the bandwidth for the downloads ;)
[22:46] <lifeless> TresEquis: :P
[22:47] <mgz> the actual cost is likely to be in confused plugins devs. Need to do a post to list now there's a windows packaged 2.2b3 (there is, right?) saying what changed
[22:49] <mgz> lifeless: you didn't push a testtools fix for u""?
[22:49] <lifeless> mgz: let me check
[22:50] <lifeless> pushing now
[22:50] <lifeless> sorry
[22:51] <mgz> 's okay, just needing it now.
[22:51] <lifeless> ok, someone else pushed, pulling that in first
[22:51] <mgz> hm, and no, no packaged 2.2b3 for windows yet it seems, I may as well draft the message now though
[22:52] <mgz> I'm not seeing anything on launchpad testtools trunk after your rev
[22:52] <mgz> did you uncommit locally?
[22:52] <lifeless> mgz: actually no, I did push it.
[22:52] <lifeless> mgz: I just have the edited version locally
[22:52] <lifeless> rev 75
[22:53] <lifeless> revno: 75
[22:53] <lifeless> committer: Robert Collins<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:53] <lifeless> branch nick: trunk
[22:53] <lifeless> timestamp: Thu 2010-06-24 20:03:30 +1000
[22:53] <lifeless> message:
[22:53] <lifeless>   Do not generate str objects for StringException's internally.
[22:53] <lifeless> its just not py3 happy
[22:53] <mgz> yup, I see that.
[22:53] <mgz> you were going to add _()
[22:54] <lifeless> I did in fact
[22:54] <lifeless> but I hadn't committed it
[22:54] <lifeless> and then forgot and ...
[22:57] <mgz> thanks!
[23:17] <poolie> hello all
[23:17] <poolie> hi jam
[23:47] <jam> hi poolie
[23:47] <jam> calling now
[23:47] <poolie> hi there jam
[23:48] <poolie> ok


[04:24] <Aarat_> anyone there?
[18:53] <stgraber> ^ ... wrong version number... should be -1ubuntu0.1, though I guess the SRU team will let it in regardless


 I could be sleeping
[09:19] <mazal> Do you guys in the big cities know a Chesa Nyama ?
[09:19] <mazal> Food place
[09:21] <superfly> negative
[09:21] <mazal> http://www.chesanyama.co.za/Home/
[09:21] <mazal> One opened here , looks promising
[09:24] <superfly> Ya, I see the only one in the western cape is in Paark
[09:24] <superfly> *Paarl
[09:57] <Cryterion> hmmm, there's one near me
[10:07] <magespawn> a new local fast food chain?
[10:56] <thatgraemeguy> my sister knows that, she lived in KZN for a few years
[10:57] <thatgraemeguy> I'm surprised they even bothered here, and in Paarl of all places
[10:57] <thatgraemeguy> ons kan mos ons eie goed braai, wat se nonsens is dit?!?! :-p
[14:00] <magespawn> later all
[14:26] <pavlushka> o/ all
[14:48] <superfly> Was wondering why it's so quiet in here, then I realised it's because oom Kilos is not here today
[14:54]  * pavlushka me too searching for Kilos!
[14:58] <Cryterion> Kilos gone awol again?
[15:01] <pavlushka> I am worried for Kilos!
[16:35] <pavlushka> If some will meet Kilos, say Hi to him for me.
[16:36] <Cryterion> will do
[16:37] <pavlushka> That will be so kind of you Cryterion !
[16:37] <Cryterion> maaz: tell Kilos pavlushka said Hi, and is very worried about him being awol!
[16:37] <Maaz> Cryterion: Okay, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[16:37] <Cryterion> done! ;)
[16:37] <Cryterion> pavlushka, that's how you get maaz to do things for you :)
[16:38] <pavlushka> oh, I meant meeting in person.
[16:39] <Cryterion> either way he'll get message, anything I could help with?
[16:39] <pavlushka> No, thank you, I'll tell you If I need any.
[16:40] <Cryterion> ok kwl
[16:41]  * Cryterion goes back to player illyriad
[16:41] <Cryterion> damn typos creep in
[16:41] <pavlushka> Cryterion, right now I need help, what is kwl?
[16:42] <Cryterion> kwl mean cool, what do you need help with?
[16:43] <pavlushka> sorry, with this only. and I was kinda kidding.
[16:43] <Cryterion> lol, ;)
[16:44] <pavlushka> I didn't know about the kwl though.
[16:45] <pavlushka> Hellooo Kilos !
[16:45] <Kilos> evening everyone ,
[16:45] <Kilos> what a long day at the hospital
[16:45] <Kilos> all good, just tired
[16:45] <pavlushka> tell me about it.
[16:45] <Kilos> too much now
[16:45] <pavlushka> ok.
[16:45] <Kilos> time to eat and drink and rest
[16:46] <pavlushka> get rest, I was just a little worried.
[16:46] <Kilos> whole day without food or anything to drink
[16:46] <Kilos> ty for that i got Cryterion s message
[16:46] <Kilos> im fine ty
[16:47] <Cryterion> you all Kilos?
[16:47] <Cryterion> all good?
[16:47] <Kilos> hyes ty got meds for months so prostate will behave
[16:48] <Cryterion> kwl, just get better, deal?
[16:50] <pavlushka> thanks for peeking in Kilos !
[16:56] <Kilos> np pavlushka
[16:56] <Kilos> im fine ty
[17:03] <Kilos> i go eat
[17:05] <pavlushka> ok
[17:49]  * Cryterion lights a stink bomb and throws it into the room, then runs off
[17:49] <Kilos> lol
[17:49] <Cryterion> how you doing Kilos
[17:49]  * Kilos blocks nose and goes fishing
[17:49] <Kilos> fine ty lad and you?
[17:50]  * Cryterion looks at his rods, and thinks, no fish fish there now
[17:50] <Cryterion> All good
[17:50] <superfly> sup Cryterion, oom Kilos
[17:50] <Cryterion> heya superfly
[17:50] <Kilos> hi superfly
[17:50] <Kilos> tired
[17:51] <Cryterion> you just need to rest for a bit
[17:51] <Kilos> yeah rest is good
[17:51] <superfly> Kilos: why does the hospital take so long? is it because you have to stand in a queue the whole day?
[17:52] <Cryterion> 8hrs wait before an op, std
[17:52] <Kilos> you dont need fish you just need the rest and open air
[17:52] <Kilos> yeah superfly major queues
[17:52] <Cryterion> yep, come done here, and move you onto the beach Kilos
[17:52] <Kilos> ond misplaced files
[17:53] <Kilos> Cryterion i wish. im a beach bum by trade
[17:53] <Cryterion> beach is 500m from my home
[17:54]  * Kilos jealous
[17:54] <Cryterion> but they locking down in fishing at Aliwal Should now :(
[17:54] <Kilos> all that moisture not good for tvs and pcs though
[17:54] <Kilos> wow
[17:55] <Kilos> you dont know my story
[17:55] <Cryterion> had it all my life on the coast so learnt hear to work around it
[17:55] <Cryterion> I heard bit Kilos
[17:55] <Cryterion> bits*
[17:55] <Kilos> i spent years in toti]
[17:55] <Cryterion> just get better, that's an order
[17:55] <Kilos> 20 i think
[17:55] <Kilos> i am better man
[17:56] <Cryterion> good
[17:56] <Kilos> prostate only hassle
[17:56] <Cryterion> just keep positive
[17:56] <Kilos> always except when negative
[17:57] <Kilos> Maaz kilos.blog
[17:57] <Maaz> Kilos: kilos.blog is http://mileyssignificantblog.blogspot.com/
[17:57] <Kilos> most of it was removed for certain private reasons but the main idea is there i think
[17:57] <Kilos> actually forgot i was replacing what i had saved
[18:00] <Kilos> sjoe its still long
[18:01] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[18:05] <inetpro> oh hi Kilos
[18:05] <Kilos> lol
[18:05] <Kilos> you in sync for a change
[18:05]  * inetpro glad to see him still kicking and alive
[18:06] <Cryterion> inetpro been out of sync since last night
[18:06] <Kilos> aw
[18:09] <Kilos> oh Cryterion the fancy name was my daughters idea
[18:10] <Kilos> so what happened with mars and that other place last night
[18:11] <Cryterion> saturn
[18:11] <Kilos> ya that one
[18:11] <Cryterion> eventually got focus on it, but still looks white
[18:12] <Kilos> all white
[18:12] <Kilos> stronger scope needed
[18:12] <Cryterion> I need some more lenses for the scope, only got a 20mm and 4mm available, so can't get it big enough
[18:12] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:12] <Cryterion> that's next, after I learn enough from this one
[18:16] <Kilos> so the moon is close enough right
[18:16] <Kilos> have you seen the man on the moon
[18:17]  * inetpro has only see the rabbit on the moon
[18:17] <Cryterion> saturn is currently directly above the moon
[18:18] <Cryterion> the moon is hollow btw
[18:18] <Kilos> aw
[18:18] <Kilos> no minerals
[18:18] <Cryterion> and made of cheese, so not sure why the rabbit is there?
[18:18] <Kilos> lol
[18:19] <Cryterion> skeptics say the moon only arrived about 13000years ago
[18:19] <Cryterion> along with the "Black Knight"
[18:20] <Kilos> the old time farmers must have struggled to know when to plant crops with no moon to go by
[18:21] <Kilos> maybe thats why they were hunter gatherers
[18:21] <Cryterion> maybe
[18:21] <Cryterion> maaz: google Black Knight Satellite
[18:21] <Maaz> Cryterion: "Black Knight satellite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_satellite :: "20 Facts about the Black Knight Satellite - Ancient Code" http://www.ancient-code.com/20-facts-black-knight-satellite/ :: "The Black Knight Satellite: What's This Object Nikola Tesla ..." http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/30/the-
[18:21] <Maaz> black-knight-satellite-whats-this-object-nikola-tesla-concluded-was-extraterrestrial/ :: …
[18:22] <Cryterion> it's still in orbit today
[18:22] <pavlushka> guys, you are killing me, laughing!
[18:22] <Cryterion> it's out there
[18:23] <Kilos> laughter is great for wrinkles and weak eyesite pavlushka
[18:24] <Cryterion> maaz: google Youtube Dark Mission
[18:24] <Maaz> Cryterion: "NASA DARK MISSION - Richard Hoagland - National ... - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7YAwZ1bbD0 :: "DARK MISSION: Ancient ET Moon Discoveries - 3-HOUR ... - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptx7bkGCnhM :: "Richard C Hoagland - Dark Mission - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKSTSMzioxw :: "DARK MISSION Ancient ET Moon
[18:24] <Maaz> Discoveries 3 HOUR ... - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acqTYBqlQsw :: "What Happened O…
[18:24] <Cryterion> hmm, wrong one
[18:24] <Kilos> ai! all the tube stuff
[18:24] <Cryterion> maaz: google Youtube Moon Hoax
[18:24] <Maaz> Cryterion: "MOON HOAX TOTALLY PROVEN - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g3ku3ehzVM :: "Total Video Proof of Moon Landing hoax Released 2015 ... - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPEPRgfVlU4 :: "(weneverwenttothemoon.com) FAKE MOON LANDING ... - YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLSY5Kr7hA :: "Moon landing FAKE ...Neil Armstrong talks -
[18:24] <Maaz> YouTube" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFPiwnVL9ic :: "Secret Moon - NASA fake moon and ma…
[18:25] <Kilos> inetpro keep upman
[18:25] <Cryterion> have to do that manual on the tube, Dark Mission - Moon Hoax, documentary
[18:27] <Kilos> so many conspiracy theories
[18:27] <inetpro> Kilos: farmers existed more than 13000 years ago?
[18:27] <Kilos> conspiracy theories abot conspiracy theories
[18:27] <inetpro> wow
[18:27] <Kilos> man inetpro the neanderthal man was there
[18:28] <inetpro> no ways
[18:28] <Kilos> and big foots ancestors
[18:28] <Kilos> we only been here 2000 years
[18:28] <Kilos> oh no
[18:28] <Kilos> 6000
[18:29] <Kilos> its 2000 since the AB- bloods appeared
[18:29] <inetpro> right
[18:30] <inetpro> double that and then you get to almost 13K
[18:30] <Kilos> they come from them nephilim guys i think
[18:30] <Kilos> the giants that were naughty here with our chicks
[18:34] <inetpro> Kilos: are you at home?
[18:37] <Kilos> yessir why?
[18:37] <Kilos> maybe head bit deurmekaar
[18:37] <Kilos> one of those head days
[18:38] <inetpro> what did you do at hospital?
[18:38] <Kilos> went for meds
[18:38] <Kilos> and nothink to eat or drink since 8pm last night
[18:39] <Kilos> maybe brin dehydrated
[18:39] <Kilos> brain
[18:39] <Kilos> and bp hit 88/60 again
[18:39]  * Kilos forgets the salt at times
[18:45] <Na3iL> o/
[18:45] <Kilos> hi Na3iL
[18:45] <Na3iL> Hiya Kilos how are you
[18:45] <Na3iL>  is it true that bash / ubuntu will be in windows 10?
[18:45] <Kilos> i have no idea
[18:46] <Kilos> dholbach and then should know
[18:46] <Kilos> them
[18:46] <Na3iL> I hope not :/
[18:46] <Na3iL> http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11331014/microsoft-windows-linux-ubuntu-bash
[18:47] <pavlushka-> Night all
[18:48] <pavlushka-> Night Kilos!
[18:48] <Kilos> oh my
[18:50] <Kilos> i wouldnt be surprized
[18:50] <Kilos> something for free that they can then turn into a way to make more money
[18:50] <Kilos> oh no
[18:50] <Kilos> april 1 soon
[18:51] <Kilos> lets hope its an april fools thing
[18:51] <Na3iL> I think it's not an april fool :/
[18:51] <Na3iL> brb
[18:53] <Kilos> there was talk of them sharing convergence or something like that, Mark will know
[19:18] <Cryterion> Night everyone!
[19:19] <Kilos> night Cryterion sleep lekker
[19:19] <Kilos> i follow
[19:19] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:19] <Cryterion> you too
[19:20] <Kilos> night inetpro superfly reat as well hey
[19:21] <superfly> night Kilos
[19:23] <inetpro> ohi superfly
[19:23] <inetpro> you're late
[19:25] <superfly> I have 30+ seconds of lag
[19:26] <inetpro> superfly: adsl?
[19:27] <superfly> ya
[19:43] <inetpro> superfly: why so bad these days?
[19:59] <superfly> I don't knwo
[19:59] <superfly> *know


[06:19] <lamont> doko: icedtea-java7 is ftbfs on i386/amd64 - e.g., http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9920793/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.icedtea-java7_7%7Eb21-1.4%2B20071007-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:20] <lamont> OTOH, if you upload to fix that, it'll just try to build
[06:21] <lamont> lpia will still dep-wait itself though, until we figure out why the deb won't install on ronne and fix that.
[08:41] <doko> lamont: reuploaded, waiting for approval
[08:42] <Mithrandir> doko: accepted.
[08:45] <doko> Mithrandir: thanks
[11:14] <doko> lamont: rebuilt the lpia packages ... looks like I built in the wrong lpia chroot, having gcc-4.3 as it's default
[02:42] <lamont> doko: ah, ok
[06:04] <lamont> LP build of icedtea-java7/lpia running
[06:04] <lamont> well, queued anyway
[10:33] <lamont> oops.  I need to push the bootstrapping chroot for lpia


[22:27] <Akiva-Mobile> is it possible to share a folder with just a link, rather than having to add peoples email addresses?
[22:28] <beuno> Akiva-Mobile, no, there's no feature for sharing folders
[22:28] <beuno> (with a link :))
[22:29] <Akiva-Mobile> beuno: so if I wanted to give access to some people, I would first have to specify their email addresses?
[22:49] <beuno> Akiva-Mobile, indeed
[22:50] <Akiva-Mobile> Thats annoying. Seems like no cloud service does that


[00:00] <cjohnston> czajkowski: commented on your bug
[00:28] <cjohnston> YoBoY: confirming that your bug about editing team details is fixed
[00:30] <Ronnie> YoBoY: its posseble that you have to wait 20 minutes, after the new release. the script executes every 20 min
[00:31] <cjohnston> lpupdate ran with no errors
[00:32] <cjohnston> YoBoY: i can edit fr details
[00:40] <paultag> cjohnston: why has no one looked at that bug?
[00:41] <paultag> cjohnston: I know when someone on the council of the team that the app's only use is for says that something is important, it's important
[00:41] <paultag> cjohnston: could you *please* get someone to look at that? It's fell through for a few releases now
[00:43] <paultag> I've waited 4 months
[00:58] <cjohnston> paultag: the problem is that except for Daniel, all of us are volunteers.. Its up to the developers what they want to develop. If a developer isn't interested in the bug, then they aren't.
[01:00] <paultag> cjohnston: you relize saying that is giving me the middle finger, right?
[01:00] <paultag> "No one cares about your issue" is what I read into that
[01:00] <cjohnston> paultag: I actually did take offence to your email. I was watching TV with my wife when the email came in, and I got up to come to the office to reply.
[01:01] <paultag> cjohnston: the loco-directory's only job is to aid in the loco communites. It's my role in this community to maintain that.
[01:01] <paultag> cjohnston: a failure in the ld is harming the loco communties. I've been patiant
[01:02] <cjohnston> I understand that. However, at the same time, when we have asked for input from the LC, I do remember getting the middle finger myself.
[01:02] <cjohnston> I also remember where that went, and I don't want to go there again.
[01:02] <paultag> cjohnston: yes, because you were asking us write blurbs that were on the wiki
[01:02] <paultag> cjohnston: have fun, get back to whatever your doing.
[01:02] <paultag> you're *
[01:05] <cjohnston> Perhaps there hasn't been a way thought of to make it work well.. I have considered it a number of different times, however I haven't come up with a way to impliment. There are bugs filed from more than a year ago, that going based on age should be well ahead of the virtual event bug. However, we (or atleast I) don't go based on age. I also don't think that the lack of having a virtual venue has a huge amount of
[01:11] <cjohnston> And in reference to how members of the teams get treated, a bug from our last release about not being able to edit team details was identified on 2/23, we were finally able to figure it out on Thursday (it was an error being thrown on the production server, but not locally, so we didn't know about the error causing the bug until ISS manually ran the script at our request and found the bug) and today the fix was
[01:12] <cjohnston> We have reciently made a huge addition in adding meetings to LD.
[01:17] <mhall119> daker: is symfony in the repos?
[01:17] <mhall119> Ronnie: IDEs and bzr are covered elsewhere on developer.u.c, I'm just focusing on the web-specific tools
[01:41] <mhall119> paultag: can I talk to you in PM?
[01:42] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, sure
[06:11] <YoBoY> good morning
[07:12] <YoBoY> cjohnston: that's odd, I was able to edit my team details before the release ? ^^" I can see now the differences, and I can see also my modifications haven't been registered
[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[08:31] <trinikrono> mornings
[09:53] <czajkowski> Aloha
[10:02] <trinikrono> czajkowski: i am up to 4 members now do you think i can be ready for global jam lol?
[10:03] <czajkowski> yup
[10:03] <czajkowski> all you need is you plus + 1 :)
[10:04] <daker> good morning
[10:04] <trinikrono> :D well i am going to make a event then
[10:04] <daker> mhall119, no you have to the symfony repos or install it using pear
[10:54] <cjohnston> YoBoY: your saying you can't edit team details now?
[12:18] <mhall119> daker: I'm trying to limit it to what's available from Ubuntu's repos
[12:19] <daker> ok
[12:54] <YoBoY> cjohnston: no, I can edit now, I'm saying I can edit since 22h25 (UTC) yesterday
[13:01] <mhall119> YoBoY: did anything change with your admin team's membership?
[13:01] <YoBoY> no
[13:02] <mhall119> it's possible that whatever data was causing lpupdate to fail was changed, allowing it to run successfully
[13:02] <YoBoY> the only thing we changed is adding cjohnston to our team ^^"
[13:03] <YoBoY> now he's part of the great french team, he have to work for us :D
[13:04] <czajkowski> YoBoY: he does with the amount of bugs you log :p
[13:05] <mhall119> YoBoY: heh, I doubt that's it
[13:05] <mhall119> czajkowski: +1
[13:05] <YoBoY> and you are lucky, I have a lot of bug/wishes I haven't registered ^^"
[13:05] <czajkowski> good
[13:05]  * czajkowski minds her LD devs
[13:06] <czajkowski> one has to go through me if you increase their bug load
[13:06] <czajkowski> :)
[13:08] <mhall119> hey wait, you increase our bug load too
[13:08] <czajkowski> small ickle bugs
[13:11] <mhall119> yeah but they're Irish, which means that even though they're small, they've got a lot of fight in them
[13:11] <mhall119> ;)
[13:11] <YoBoY> You know our team don't really use the LD (one day...), but I try to register all our event's to encourage the other teams to do the same, to be forgiven for all my bugs :)
[13:11] <mhall119> YoBoY: um, there's a bunch of ubuntu-fr events on LD
[13:12] <mhall119> noone else is using them?
[13:12] <YoBoY> missing 2 or 3 yet for march ^^"
[13:12] <mhall119> YoBoY: what's the barrier?  Are we missing some functionality, or is it just resistance to change?
[13:12] <YoBoY> not really, we already have our website for that :]
[13:13] <YoBoY> but with time... and some calendar integration on our side (or your side ^^") we can perhaps use both :)
[13:14] <YoBoY> our website can promote the events on the french planet when the date is comming
[13:14] <czajkowski> YoBoY: an RSS feed of the events on the LD
[13:14] <czajkowski> that way there is a history of PASt eventxs there
[13:14] <YoBoY> we can add articles also to talk about the conferences for the upcomming events
[13:14] <czajkowski> should your hosting drop off and die
[13:15] <YoBoY> we have a calandar view
[13:15] <YoBoY> http://ubuntu-party.org/category/evenements/month
[13:16] <mhall119> YoBoY: you use wordpress right?
[13:16] <YoBoY> yes
[13:17] <mhall119> I think I looked into this for you, there's a plugin that'll let you populate the WP calendar from an ical feed, which you can get from LD
[13:17] <czajkowski> there is
[13:17] <YoBoY> mhall119: yes, it's planned to add that one day, but missing time... ^^"
[13:18] <mhall119> YoBoY: ain't that always the case :(
[13:18] <YoBoY> yes
[13:19] <YoBoY> missing time to learn python/django to help you on LD, missing time to add functionalities on our websites, ... arg why I need to sleep at night ^^"
[13:19] <mhall119> sleep is over-rated
[13:20] <YoBoY> Oneiric Ocelot ? :)
[13:21] <daker> codename for 11.10
[13:21] <YoBoY> yes :D
[13:23] <YoBoY> I like the "Nothing hugs quite like dholbach" :D
[13:25] <mhall119> Oneiric?
[13:26] <YoBoY> yes
[13:26] <mhall119> someone needs to take away Mark's dictionary
[13:26] <YoBoY> Onirique in french
[13:27] <mhall119> oh good, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oneiric has an audio pronunciation
[13:27] <jpds> mhall119: http://translate.google.co.uk/#en|en|Oneiric%20Ocelot - "Listen."
[13:28] <mhall119> another cat though?  Now we have to endure another 6 months of "OMG! you're trying to be like OSX!"
[13:29] <mhall119> jpds: thanks
[13:31] <YoBoY> btw mhall119 do you want a bug for a calendar view ? :D
[13:33] <mhall119> YoBoY: in LD?
[13:33] <YoBoY> yes :)
[13:33] <mhall119> hmmm, yeah that'd be a good idea
[13:33] <mhall119> are you wanting something to view directly, or embed in an iframe in your site?
[13:35] <YoBoY> don't know
[13:35] <YoBoY> but we can start with a direct view and think about an iframe or other system to embed in external sites
[13:35] <YoBoY> later
[13:36] <mhall119> YoBoY: is your site's calendar view code you made, or is that from a WP plugin?
[13:37] <YoBoY> plugin
[13:41] <mhall119> "Nothing hugs quite like dholbach, though, and he’s no hairy ape." lol
[13:42] <YoBoY> the last thing I coded was patches to improve the time response on our french documentation :]
[13:58] <YoBoY> the discussion we have now on my team "how many french 11.04 live cd are we making this time, 10000 or more" I love this team ^^
[14:25] <mhall119> 10,000? wow!
[14:27] <czajkowski> YoBoY: with all these people surely we can get more of them to dev on the LD
[14:28] <mhall119> heh
[14:29] <YoBoY> czajkowski: if only... I'll try to talk about the LD on the global jam, it's a good project to start learning how to use Launchpad in the ubuntu universe :)
[14:29] <czajkowski> nods
[14:31] <YoBoY> but lot of our users are really normal users, who don't know how to program, or who don't speak english. Ubuntu here it's really for human being
[15:30] <mhall119> Ronnie: ping
[15:30] <Ronnie> mhall119: pong
[15:31] <mhall119> Ronnie: are you happy with the current state of the maps stuff?
[15:31] <mhall119> I'm thinking of packaging ubuntu-django-foundations and trying to get it into the Universe repository for Natty
[15:33] <Ronnie> the javascript itself is nearly complete, but the django implementation needs a lot of improvement
[15:33] <Ronnie> the map should be more a generic django plugin or something
[15:33] <YoBoY> if you plan to put that in foundation can you switch back to something more "open" who can use openstreetmap and google maps, not just google maps ? ^^"
[15:33] <mhall119> how much?  I'm going to have to get a feature freeze exception as it is, and the sooner i have packages the more likely we are to get it into Natty
[15:34] <Ronnie> for now its a demo implemetation of using the javascript icw django
[15:34] <mhall119> YoBoY: we've discussed OpenStreetMap before, and even the developers of it agree that it's not a good fit for what we are doing
[15:35] <czajkowski> I am going to copy and paste that discussion for reference at some point
[15:35] <czajkowski> it's been brought up on mailing lists
[15:35] <czajkowski> bugs
[15:35] <mhall119> czajkowski: +1
[15:35] <czajkowski> and irc
[15:35] <czajkowski> and oh a blog post as well
[15:35] <mhall119> I think it's in one of the bugs
[15:35] <mhall119> oh, maybe it was a blog post
[15:35] <czajkowski> aye
[15:35] <Ronnie> mhall119: what do we expect of a maps plugin for django
[15:35] <mhall119> but yeah, it keeps coming up, and I don't want people to think we're blowing them off
[15:36] <czajkowski> mhall119: aye but there is a good reason, even if you google it, it's a hit
[15:36] <czajkowski> :)
[15:36] <mhall119> Ronnie: I think just a simple API for converting Models to the JSON the map's javascript needs
[15:37] <mhall119> Ronnie: it doesn't have to be perfect before we ship
[15:37] <mhall119> I'll setup a PPA, and we can always try and get updated into backports as well
[15:37] <Ronnie> i even dont know if foudations itself is ready to be shipped even
[15:37] <mhall119> I just want to have it available before we advertise it on developer.u.c
[15:38] <mhall119> Ronnie: what do you think it missing?  I know documentation, anything else?
[15:39] <Ronnie> mhall119: have you ever wrote an app working with django foundations?
[15:40] <Ronnie> but if the UDF is shipped in universe, we could easily push updates
[15:40] <mhall119> depends on what you mean by "working" ;)
[15:40] <mhall119> I got a working test site with it
[15:40] <mhall119> but haven't developed anything for use
[15:41] <Ronnie> my 'stopping' points are mainly serving the mediafiles
[15:41] <Ronnie> and extending the user model
[15:41] <Ronnie> some sort of depency handling
[15:42] <Ronnie> atm i have no sight of the Launchpad link, openid login ect, hows that handled?
[15:43] <mhall119> hmmm, I'd have to look into it
[15:45] <mhall119> okay, maybe u-d-f will have to wait until Oneiric (must get used to spelling that)
[15:45] <Ronnie> i think standards for these behaviour must be ready before shipping it
[15:45] <Ronnie> else we got a lot of different used of UDF
[15:45] <mhall119> alright, I'm not sure if I'll have enough time in the near-future to do much with that, but I'll see what needs to be done
[15:46] <Ronnie> if we can think of 3 different standard apps, and work them out, we learn how things work best
[15:46] <mhall119> Ronnie: do you think maps can be one of them?
[15:47] <Ronnie> yes maps is a good one
[15:47] <mhall119> I know light-django-theme and twidenash are ready to package
[15:47] <mhall119> I can probably get the launchpad and teams stuff ready
[15:47] <Ronnie> mhall119: i have my doubts about twidenash
[15:47] <mhall119> Ronnie: it's already in use, there's no harm packaging it
[15:48] <Ronnie> there are no config options for this
[15:48] <Ronnie> mhall119: did you see my merge request to LD for twidentica ?
[15:48] <mhall119> right, there's a lot of work to do to make it better, but it's still safe to ship
[15:48] <mhall119> Ronnie: I don't think so, what's the link?
[15:49] <Ronnie> its a replacement for twidenash, and has config options (jquery like), can show multiple different tags on one page
[15:49] <Ronnie> https://code.launchpad.net/~ronnie.vd.c/loco-directory/twidentica
[15:50] <Ronnie> i noticed when making the "My Teams" page that it was not possible to regulate the amount of tweets to display, and there could be only one intance of twidenash on one page
[15:50] <mhall119> Ronnie: is this a fork of twidenash?
[15:50] <Ronnie> therefore i made my own jquery plugin
[15:50] <Ronnie> no, its a total rewrite
[15:50] <Ronnie> working like a jquery plugin
[15:51] <mhall119> ok, so it depends on jqeury?
[15:51] <Ronnie> yes
[15:51] <mhall119> ok
[15:51] <mhall119> is it missing any functionality that twidenash provides?
[15:52] <Ronnie> there is one little 'bug' that twidenash not has. When multiple sources are used, the tweets are not sorted on date
[15:53] <mhall119> because I'm okay with using this as the new twidenash, instead of a separate project
[15:54] <Ronnie> identi.ca is usually very slow, so if the twitter-tweets are loaded, but identi.ca has newer tweets, they are not shown
[15:55] <mhall119> can you do what twidenash does to mix them together and sort by datetime?
[15:55] <Ronnie> mhall119: its possible, but not written yet
[15:56] <Ronnie> i think all the other features of twidenash are supported
[15:56] <Ronnie> i even think about live updates of the feewd
[15:56] <Ronnie> feeds*
[15:57] <mhall119> Ronnie: you should have access to https://launchpad.net/twidenash now, would you mind creating a 2.0 series for this new code?
[15:58] <Ronnie> oke, put it on twidenash
[15:58] <mhall119> yeah, I like where you're going with this
[15:59] <Ronnie> mhall119: how can i add a 2.0 series?
[15:59] <Ronnie> oh, found it
[16:03] <Ronnie> mhall119: it it OK, to call the script jquery-twidenash.js ?
[16:09] <Ronnie> mhall119: i cant push to the branch http://paste.ubuntu.com/577030/
[16:09] <Ronnie> i did and 'bzr init', 'bzr add', 'bzr commit -m "..."' and than the push in the paste
[16:27] <daker> mhall119, did you tried to move the files to an other folder then retry ?
[16:27] <daker> oh!
[16:27] <daker> i mean Ronnie
[16:30] <Ronnie> how do you mean daker
[16:30] <Ronnie> twidenash/0.2 is an empty branch, i need to push one file to it
[16:31] <kim0> mhall119: hi there, any idea why http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/763/detail/ lists me as kim02 ?!
[16:31] <kim0> dholbach said you'd know :)
[16:32] <dholbach> of course, mhall119 knows everything
[16:32] <daker> kim0, that's a bug on the djang-opendid-auth lib, there is a fix for it and wating to be merged
[16:33] <daker> djang-openid-auth*
[16:33] <nigelb> +o ;)
[16:33] <daker> bug 639772
[16:33] <Daviey> dholbach, do you have admin on LD?
[16:33] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 639772 in loco-directory (and 1 other project) "New user name after LP login (affects: 4) (dups: 2) (heat: 19)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/639772
[16:34] <kim0> daker: rock n roll :)
[16:35] <YoBoY> Ronnie: have you try to push with the long name lp:~owner/... ?
[16:36] <Ronnie> YoBoY: is it possible to put the code into a sersies ?
[16:37] <YoBoY> it should be yes
[16:37] <Ronnie> see the result: https://code.launchpad.net/twidenash
[16:40] <YoBoY> Ronnie: perhaps you can now attach this branch to the serie :]
[16:40] <Ronnie> ah
[16:41] <daker> and change to onwer of the branch to "django-foundations-dev"
[16:41] <Ronnie> done, thx YoBoY
[16:42] <daker> now it's ok
[16:46] <YoBoY> Ronnie: i tested it with staging, and after a first error like yours, and some time waiting, it worked directly. Perhaps you have to let launchpad be aware of the branch before trying to push in.
[16:46] <Ronnie> YoBoY: maybe, ill try next time. thx
[16:47]  * Ronnie is going to eat now
[16:47] <YoBoY> bon appétit :)
[17:19] <mhall119> daker: actually the fix for kim02 should be fixed already :(
[17:19] <mhall119> I'll take a look
[17:20] <daker> yay it's fixed for me
[17:21] <daker> ah no :s
[17:24] <mhall119> daker: it's not?
[17:24] <mhall119> I don't see a kim02 in LD
[17:25] <daker> yes it's not fixed for still show my old lp nickname
[17:25] <daker> mhall119, look http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/763/detail/
[17:25] <mhall119> daker: renames aren't fixed yet, that's what I have in django-openid-auth
[17:25] <daker> ah ok
[17:26] <mhall119> but it adding +1 to the end of your current username, that bug is fixed
[17:26] <daker> ah it's fixed now for kim0
[17:27] <mhall119> our 2 outstanding bugs are from user renames, and not getting an LP username from the SSO response
[17:27] <mhall119> I have fixes for both in django-openid-auth, but I have to write unit tests for them before they'll be accepted
[17:28] <YoBoY> it's just me or some mugshots of the users are missing in your link daker  ?
[17:28] <mhall119> YoBoY: it's not just you
[17:28] <mhall119> that's another known bug
[17:28] <mhall119> We don't get the direct URL to a mugshot from LP
[17:28] <daker> yes it's a bug
[17:28] <mhall119> instead we get a URL to launchpad librarian, whether librarian actually has a mugshot for that person or not
[17:29] <mhall119> we've been in discussion with LP devs on how to fix that
[17:29] <mhall119> either daker or Ronnie was working on that one
[17:29] <YoBoY> these users don't have mugshots defined in launchpad
[17:30] <YoBoY> strange this is not for every missing mugshots ^^
[17:30] <mhall119> I don't recall the specifics, but in some cases we were getting URLs that didn't point to images
[17:30] <mhall119> YoBoY: sometimes we get a URL that returns text, isntead of an image
[17:31] <mhall119> sometimes we get a URL that returns a redirect to a url that has an image
[17:31] <mhall119> like I said, it's kind of screwy, but we're working on nailing it down
[17:32] <mhall119> YoBoY: for example, go to https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/~m-gamal005/logo
[17:32] <YoBoY> do you use a cache system or ask everytime to LP for the mugshot ?
[17:32] <mhall119> that is supposed to redirect to an image
[17:32] <mhall119> but instead just shows text
[17:32] <mhall119> YoBoY: we keep it in the user profile, and only ask LP on updates
[17:33] <mhall119> but what we keep is a URL that redirects to the actual image, the URL doesn't take you straight there
[17:33] <YoBoY> ok, you keep the link I presume
[17:33] <mhall119> yes
[17:34] <mhall119> we keep https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/~{{username}}/logo if it doesn't return a 404
[17:34] <mhall119> but https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/~m-gamal005/logo returns text, while https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/~mhall119/logo returns a redirect to the mugshot
[22:22] <cjohnston> I like how YoBoY has is "missing time" to add the calendar to wordpress that will work from the feed from LD, but he has the time to file all the bugs. ;-) <-- czajkowski mhall119
[22:28] <YoBoY> cjohnston: it's just because I think adding the link between ld and our site is less important than all the other things I do for the community. The more bugs I register, the more you can see how LD is important for me ;)
[23:03] <cjohnston> do be do be do
[23:50] <Ronnie> mhall119: can you make some spare time in this week to review my merges, they contain significant changes, which i need for solving other bugs


[03:09] <effie_jayx> nalioth,  remember that troll the other day?
[03:09] <nalioth> effie_jayx: which one? i meet a new one all the time
[03:11] <effie_jayx> nalioth,  the one in ubuntu-ve?
[03:11] <effie_jayx> sortadi
[03:11] <effie_jayx> I got to meet him in person
[03:11] <nalioth> ah, interesting
[03:12] <effie_jayx> nalioth,  ever happened to you?
[03:12] <nalioth> fortunately, no.
[03:19] <effie_jayx> lol
[03:20] <effie_jayx> nalioth,  the guy was quite impressed ... he is used to dealing with mediocre ops :P
[03:21] <effie_jayx> s
[03:21] <nalioth> :)
[03:38] <Flannel> Anyone awake?  could use some help in #ubuntu
[08:04] <unimatrix9> good morning here
[08:05] <unimatrix9> is there some one awake?
[08:07] <rob> yes, whats up?
[08:08] <unimatrix9> well i got a bit of a problem, yesterday i got banned ( for good reason i guess ) could i get an unban, or how should i correct it, whats your advise?
[08:08] <unimatrix9> the channel is ubuntu, main helpp
[08:08] <unimatrix9> or can i get some info on how long this ban will be?
[08:08] <rob> actually it wasn't that long ago, best to wait for the op who set it to remove it
[08:09] <unimatrix9> okey...
[08:10] <unimatrix9> is there an way to get info on the length of time of the ban?
[08:10] <unimatrix9> msg server?
[08:10] <rob> well, someone here probably has access to the tracker, I think I do but it has been a while since I've accessed it
[08:11] <unimatrix9> hmm, okey, well i will wait four day's and then if the ban is not gone , i can contact here again?
[08:12] <rob> @btlogin
[08:12] <rob> bah, no ubotu in here..
[08:13] <elkbuntu> rob, you can log into him via PM
[08:14] <elkbuntu> unimatrix9, that was the second time you were banned for being disrespectful, so yes, wait a few days for the ban to be removed
[08:14] <rob> elkbuntu, ah nice
[08:15] <rob> the log font is terrible though :)
[08:15] <elkbuntu> the second time in so many hours, too.
[08:15] <elkbuntu> rob, i'm taking it that you have not previewed gutsy yet :
[08:16] <unimatrix9> yes, true, it was not that much of a crime, but any way , i will wait, thanks for the info...
[08:16] <elkbuntu> the font dpi goes to muck sometimes ;)
[08:16] <rob> elkbuntu, if you are refering to that web site about the previews, I couldn't find the download link
[08:16] <elkbuntu> unimatrix9, shitstirring in a 1000+ person channel is something we do take seriously. it's hard enough for people to be heard for actual issues without someone being silly
[08:17] <unimatrix9> sure i understand that...
[08:20] <unimatrix9> i was actually asking if people liked the idea of having an keynote for ubuntu gutsy, or new promotional video's that show its new possibilities...
[08:20] <unimatrix9> that seemed to be off topic..
[08:21] <unimatrix9> well any way, i will stop complaining, thanks for your time, and hope to see you all soon...again..
[08:21] <unimatrix9> :)
[08:21] <Hobbsee> that's not the topic for gutsy
[08:21] <Hobbsee> nor is it a support related issue
[08:25] <unimatrix9> ok
[08:25] <Hobbsee> er, sorry, the place for gutsy discussion
[08:26] <unimatrix9> gutsy was an example
[08:38] <unimatrix9> thanks for your time, have an nice day!
[01:27] <Myrtti> that agent fella is annoying
[05:28] <xaviercl> eyyyyyy
[10:19] <PriceChild> we've got a spammer in #ubuntu...
[10:19] <mc44> k-line him!
[10:19] <jrib> call the staff on him
[10:20] <alindeman> Where?
[10:21] <PriceChild> alindeman, don't worry, its just jend.a calling people in for an ubuntu quiz :)
[10:21] <alindeman> :-) Oh
[10:31] <jussi01> lol
[10:54] <nalioth> jarle: ok
[10:54] <jrib> jarle: you passed, are you still banned from #ubuntu?
[10:55] <jarle> jrib: good to go now...
[12:10] <PriceChild> ubuntu-geek implemented a new feature at the bottom of the forums frontpage today... someone might be abusing it... :P
[12:12] <jdong> PriceChild: I think it's quite amusing :)
[12:12] <jdong> I mean err... this is unacceptable
[12:13] <mc44> PriceChild: whats that?
[12:13] <jdong> mc44: look at bottom of the index
[12:15] <mc44> jdong: I'm clearly blind :/
[12:15] <jdong> mc44: most searched keywords...
[12:15] <jdong> look at the gigantic bold one :)
[12:15] <Pici> mc44: automatix sucks
[12:15] <PriceChild> mc44, ah it only shows up for logged in users
[12:15] <jdong> ah
[12:15] <mc44> ooh
[12:16] <jdong> err...
[12:16] <PriceChild> he isn't
[12:16] <jdong> honestly I bet his reaction will be the same as my intial one :)
[12:16] <mc44> ah yes, thats better
[12:16] <mc44> it's network effects, people click on the big bold one :P
[12:19] <mneptok> no to montion it's true
[12:19] <Pici> Also spandex is on that list... /me shrugs
[12:19] <mneptok> *mention
[12:19] <jdong> Pici: lol I don't wanna know what people search for on the forum :)
[12:19] <jdong> unfortunately I hve to see it quite often
[12:20] <jdong> lol
[12:20] <mneptok> Pici: i have a crawler that indexes all Ubuntu-related sites for any mention of spandex.
[12:20] <Pici> mneptok: You would.


[04:05] <nixternal> Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times:
[04:05] <nixternal> dput ubuntu foo.changes and I get that. any help will be greatly appreciated
[08:26] <geser> nixternal: the LP FTP server checks now the signature upon upload. But sometimes the keyserver and the FTP server don't like to talk to each other. But your upload might got accepted anyways.
[09:29] <c_korn> is bug 762215 a duplicate of bug 762761 or the other way around? (i.e. what is the correct package?)
[19:50] <paissad> hello guys, i would like to know if this is a correct version naming
[19:50] <paissad> 1.21.1-svn234-3
[19:50] <paissad> i mean, may we have more than 1 dash in the version string
[19:50] <paissad> ?
[20:04] <micahg> paissad: preferably not, if it's revisions on top of 1.21.1, it should be 1.21.1+svn234-X if in Debian or -0ubuntuY for Ubuntu (archive)


[05:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3005 Diff missing (zesty/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6). Ready to build (xenial/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, yakkety/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, yakkety/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6, zesty/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5). UNAPPROVED queue (xenial/percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6)
[13:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Preparing packages
[13:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Failed to build
[14:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Preparing packages
[16:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Successfully built
[17:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Preparing packages
[18:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- alan_g, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3013 Successfully built
[21:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mterry, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2680 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/indicator-session, xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-bluetooth, zesty/indicator-datetime, zesty/indicator-power, zesty/unity8-desktop-session). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-bluetooth, xenial/indicator-datetime, xenial/indicator-power, xenial/indicator-sound, xenial/libindicator, xenial/policykit-uni
[21:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mterry, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2680 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/indicator-session, xenial/unity8). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-bluetooth, zesty/indicator-datetime, zesty/indicator-power, zesty/indicator-session, zesty/indicator-sound, zesty/unity8, zesty/unity8-desktop-session). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-bluetooth, xenial/indicator-datetime, xenial/indicator-power, xen


[06:06] <Hg200> can anyone tell me how long they'd estimate it should take for kde partition editor to shift over ~1tb of space?
[06:11] <Hg200> well, i turned on hard drive monitor widgets to watch the partition in question, and it's certainly doing things to it
[06:11] <Hg200> also *all* the RAM is being used
[06:11] <Hg200> i'm guessing that it's moving over the partition as i wanted. it's been going for 50+ minutes though
[06:11] <Hg200> ah, just topped an hour
[06:12] <Hg200> but yeah i guess kdepartedit is doing stuff
[07:30] <lordievader> Transfering 1Tb will take a long time. Especially since you are reading and writing to the same disk.
[07:34] <Hg200> i sort of figured. i've been able to verify that the backend tools are doing stuff, but i wish i could figure out how to monitor them more closely
[07:34] <Hg200> i have no idea how far along it is or whether i'll be able to tell if it does encounter a problem
[07:34] <Hg200> oh woah it jumped up to 40% completed!
[07:35] <lordievader> Tools like `iotop` can tell you how much io is going on.
[07:35] <Hg200> ok so the 'resize partition' portion took 2:15:18 .. not bad i guess
[07:35] <Hg200> ah i should have suspected there was a -top for this
[07:36] <Hg200> anyway it's moved a couple steps down to 'move the file system'
[07:39] <Hg200> ah nice. iotop is really useful for this
[07:39] <Hg200> thanks lordievader :)
[10:45] <jemand> Hi hi, I'm trying to set up a vault an get this error: cryfs: Es ist die falsche Version installiert. Version 0.9.6 ist erforderlich
[10:45] <jemand> Trying EncFS ends in:
[10:45] <jemand> encfs: Es ist die falsche Version installiert.  Version 1.9.1 ist erforderlich
[10:45] <jemand> it's a brand new installation, 18.04 with all updates
[11:13] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:15] <jemand> hi, nobody around with experiences about VAULT?
[11:16] <jemand> I'm trying to set up a vault an get this error: "cryfs: Es ist die falsche Version installiert. Version 0.9.6 ist erforderlich"
[11:47] <obert> update from 16 to 17 failed, now I got only a black screen, how to format linux hdd?
[11:50] <rich__> Hi, Is this a place I can ask trouble shooting questions, or am I better off going straight to a forum?
[11:52] <rich__> anyone?
[12:17] <erts> Hi there! I have a weird problem with Plasma 5.12: the trashcan icon doesn't change when the trashcan changes state (empty/full). At the moment it has the "full" icon, but it's actually empty. I have had this for a long time and it's extremelly annoying, can't find any information online other than some people asking about the same issue but not getting any response. Does anybody know how to fix this issue, or why is this caused? Thanks!
[12:18] <obert> ...
[12:18] <diogenes_> erts, try a different icon set
[12:19] <erts> diogenes_: I already did that. It happens with all of them, also with the default one...
[12:19] <diogenes_> erts, then try a new user
[12:20] <erts> I did that too, and also tried with a virtual machine. It works at first but after a few minutes of use (or customisation of the options, or I don't know what) it goes static, every time
[12:21] <diogenes_> then it's a plasma bug
[12:21] <erts> it seems to have been around since 4.x or even 3.x and nobody has ever looked into it.... I find it very hard to explain how to replicate since I don't know why this is happening
[12:22] <erts> seriously nobody else are having this issue?
[12:23] <diogenes_> erts, could be that no one looked into it just because the vast majority of linuxoids people donţt use desktop icons at all (iţm one of them)
[12:24] <erts> that's true... for some reason I'm still (only) using the home folder and the trash one... just can't get used to not using them :/
[12:24] <erts> I think I found a workaround... give me a second
[12:24] <erts> nope
[12:25] <erts> I disabled the "limit maximum size" for the trashcan on dolphin and the icon worked again, waited a while, deleted another file, emptied it and it kept the same full icon...
[12:32] <niccagenick> Hi guys, I'm new. The IRC is for help, support or some else?
[12:33] <diogenes_> !topic | niccagenick
[12:33] <niccagenick> Thanks!
[12:33] <diogenes_> yw
[15:16] <qwebirc41127> When I open a new session in Konsole I do not have group permissions. What might be causing that?
[15:18] <BluesKaj> qwebirc41127, add yourself to the sudo group, sudo adduser username sudo
[15:24] <qwebirc41127> BluesKaj, I already am a member of sudo group. Tryed adding myself again, didn't help. Still no group permissions in Konsole. Executing "su username" opens session with working permissions though.
[15:26] <BluesKaj> qwebirc41127, thats almost like debian permissions , haven't seen that before on Kubuntu
[15:27] <BluesKaj> anyway, I have to leave ...might BBL
[15:34] <qwebirc41127> I am running Kubuntu 16.04 LTS. And I have only noticed this issue today when I could not access a mounted filesystem that required group permissions. A few weeks ago everything worked fine.
[15:41] <qwebirc41127> Tried using Xterm, the same problem. Might be an issue with KDE.
 anyone knows whether 18.04 going to be updated to 5.13 or it is going to stick with 5.12 LTS?
 @TaurohtaRR, The 18.04 main archive and isos will stay on 5.12.x LTS. 5.13 may be available in backports or other PPA at some point, when new Qt builds becoeme available.
 great. thx for clarification.
[19:05] <niccagenick_> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/84o7zsR8
[19:10] <niccagenick> I need help, I tried to upgrade my system and it broke the system.
[19:12] <acheronuk> niccagenick: ppa-purge ppa:kubuntu-ppa/experimental
[19:12] <niccagenick> This video https://youtu.be/RjQCclr3eiY
[19:14] <acheronuk> niccagenick: we can't control all the stupid people or videos on youtube!
[19:14] <acheronuk> people = video makers
[19:14] <acheronuk> niccagenick: that ppa says clearly "DEVELOPMENT PPA ONLY - DO NOT USE ON A PRODUCTION/END USER SYSTEMS"
[19:15] <niccagenick> Well now I only acess the grub what can I do?
[19:15] <niccagenick> Is there one recovery system?
[19:17] <acheronuk> niccagenick: purge the ppa as above, then try installing the packages 'kubuntu-desktop plasma-desktop plasma-workspace sddm' again
[19:22] <niccagenick> Well doesn't work because I don't acess the dextop, only logon screen
[19:23] <niccagenick> Stupid video i will reinstall the Kubuntu so...
[19:24] <acheronuk> niccagenick: switch to a VT and login on that
[19:25] <acheronuk> e.g. CRTL+ALT+F2
[19:27] <acheronuk> bit late now, but it's also always useful to have ssh set up so you can ssh in from another machine to do command line stuff
[19:28] <niccagenick> I can do the command line in live USB?
[19:34] <niccagenick_> Well I think my pc fucked out
[19:36] <genii> niccagenick_: This is understandably frustrating, but please remember also the no swearing guidelines for this channel please
[19:36] <niccagenick_> Sorry
[19:48] <acheronuk> niccagenick_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveryMode
[20:49] <kowal> this distro is amazing
[21:04] <kowal> does kubuntu come with a gui file manager that supports sftp?
[21:07] <kowal> I'm looking for something that would allow me to drag and drop folders from my vps into my desktop
[21:08] <luuk> kowal: Yes in Dolphin you can add a new network folder, choose ssh, and select the sftp protocol
[21:09] <kowal> luuk: oh thanks I forgot about Dolphin, I replaced it with Thunar immediately after installing kubuntu
[21:19] <izorak> quit
[21:24] <kowal> is there any way to tell Dolphin to open files only after a double click, as opposed to a single one?
[21:24] <kowal> okay nevermind
[22:35] <neoz> Hi! can I ask about Konversation client?
[22:39] <neoz> how can I erase/delete a dropdown history of visited channels in Konversation? I mean "File" -> "Enter a channel" -> "Channel" field - it show a list of visited channels and I want to clear it...
[23:05] <Dragnslcr> neoz- you can try editing ~/.config/konversationrc
[23:06] <neoz> thanks <Dragnslcr>!
[23:11] <neoz> no, it not works...
[23:12] <neoz> found and clear these entries from ~/.config/konversationrc, restarted Konversation client, but still can see history of these channels


[09:40] <njin> hello can someone set bug 917765 triaged, wishlist for me, thanks
[09:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 917765 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in call_in_idle_cb() (dup-of: 898994)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917765
[09:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 898994 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in call_in_idle_cb()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898994
[09:41] <njin> Oops wrong number, can someone set bug 917756 as triaged wishlist for me
[09:41] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 917756 in casper "I chose the italian language, but only english is used" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917756
[11:39] <zzecool> Someone else check this out
[11:39] <zzecool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/936899
[11:39] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 936899 in nautilus "Nautilus cant access network - Browse Network and Hung there." [Undecided,New]
[19:16] <s9iper1> anybody has also gnome shell installed
[20:13] <dlentz> s9iper1, i have it on my main OS (debian)
[20:14] <dlentz> it doesn't run right in my ubuntu vm though (because of lack of 3D accel)
[20:14] <dlentz> what did you need?
[20:21] <s9iper1> whats the branch of touchpad bugs ?
[20:21] <s9iper1> any body know
[20:21] <s9iper1> ?
[20:21] <s9iper1> xorg or any else
[20:21] <s9iper1> ?
[20:21] <ashams> s9iper1, it's xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[20:22] <s9iper1> ashams: have you noticed a bug with the mouse drag and group it need one more click to  drop a window
[20:22] <s9iper1> group = drop
[20:23] <s9iper1> :)
[20:23] <ashams> s9iper1, not yet, will take a look
[20:24] <ashams> s9iper1, it's really a miss over here, which one you mean?
[20:25] <s9iper1> like this
[20:25] <s9iper1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/934184
[20:25] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 934184 in unity "Draging window with a mousepad needs extra tab for release (locked drags)12.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:25] <s9iper1> ashams:
[20:26] <ashams> s9iper1, aha, got it, checking it
[20:28] <ashams> s9iper1, i guess it's a bug in gnome-settings-daemon
[20:28] <ashams> not in the driver
[20:28] <s9iper1> hmm
[20:28] <s9iper1> and not also a unity
[20:28] <s9iper1> ofcousrce
[20:29] <s9iper1> ofcource
[20:29] <ashams> will try with g-s-d to see what triagers will say there!
[20:41] <s9iper1> ashams: you know rodrigo he know about this ?


[01:54] <jbicha> hmm?
[15:06] <xnox> doko:  i've started boost 1.71 by default test-rebuilds in a bileto PPA and slowly going through the py3.8 / boost-without-py2 fallout and trying to make patches for all the affected packages.
[15:06] <xnox> I will be uploading them to ubuntu, such that they all become "binNMU" safe to pick up new boost / new python3 / new cmake etc.
[15:07] <xnox> and removing any hardcoded versions as I go along.
[16:48] <sdk> Eh, last week, I asked on #ubuntu about a dependency tree problem I encountered with the netinst but no one was able to help. I know it isn't a support channel but I think some people here could help me find the best place to report the problem I'm facing. So here's my problem: On a minimal (with no Desktop Manager) netinst install, if I try to only install xorg, apt wants to install the whole ubuntu desktop (gnome shell
[16:48] <sdk> and whatnot). However, I only want to install xorg so I can install only a WM like i3 after that. Further, this problem also occurs when I try to install packages like VLC or MPV. Btw, Configuring apt to not install recommended packages isn't an option since I want those packages for most of them. Like I said, there seems to be a problem with the dependency tree.
[16:56] <jbicha> sdk: there are alternate dependencies available. The default dependencies are set intentionally.
[16:58] <jbicha> one trick is to use a - suffix to avoid the package you don't want. For instance:
[16:58] <jbicha> sudo apt install xorg gnome-terminal-
[17:35] <JanC> you can also use --no-install-recommends for one command
[18:04] <LocutusOfBorg> Unit193, you might add your patches on top of that so they become debian friendly?
[21:26] <HokarPokar> Hey. I'm trying to cross-compile a python package for Windows x64. While compiling a source file, the mingw-w64 compiler throws an error "unknow multiarch location for pyconfig.h". I opened up the pyconfig.h and I don't see any includes for Windows target. Am I doing something wrong ?
[21:27] <HokarPokar> Is the header not provisioned for windows ?
[21:28] <HokarPokar> Forgot to mention, I'm running all of this from within a virtualenv created for python3.6
[23:00] <Unit193> LocutusOfBorg: Nah it's not really related to patches, it's the packaging being weird.


[14:45] <grimmware> Hey, I'm curious about how you get your upstream feeds for the USN and OVAL definitions, specifically for the Linux kernels on Ubuntu. Context is that we're considering the viability of building a 6.x kernel, but we want to know that we can get reliable metadata on which kernel CVEs affect our installed versions but as far as I can tell the versions are not included as metadata in the CVEs
[14:45] <grimmware> themselves, and I'm assuming that you as a security team are having to manually triage all of them to create that metadata for the supported Ubuntu kernels - is that accurate?
[14:57] <jjohansen> grimmware: for the kernels, the CVE # is rarely in the patch, the sourcing of the CVE comes from several different sources. There is the OSS mailing list, reporters may researcher/report the vulnerability directly to us, mitre (if a researcher/reporter gets a CVE number from them), we have representative on the kernel security ml (which is actually rarely used as most kernel CVEs seem to get assigned after the patch is public),
[14:57] <jjohansen> and we coordinate as best we can with other distros
[15:01] <grimmware> jjohansen: that is *really* helpful context, thank you for sharing!
[15:03] <jjohansen> grimmware: there are couple of other intermediary sources as well like ZDI who run pwn2own and run bug bounty programs
[15:04] <jjohansen> researches will submit stuff to them (usually as part of pwn2own), and then ZDI will forward it to us if they take us down in pwn2own ...
[15:04] <grimmware> jjohansen: I think the really killer feature that we want parity with is the ability to simply know what vulns we have where by matching version metadata (so thank you to all of the team for your hard work on that!)
[15:35] <grimmware> hmm I think it might make sense for us to wait for 23.04 and then we can just wholesale backport the pre-built package
[15:35] <grimmware> and then just track USNs the same way that we already do
[15:36] <grimmware> I mean I guess that commits us to a kernel roll-forward when 23.10 comes out but I *really* want id-mapped mounts on overlay2 :P
[15:37] <sdeziel> grimmware: 22.04 will eventually get 23.04's kernel thanks to HWE kernels
[15:37] <grimmware> :O
[15:37] <sdeziel> my point is you won't need to do any backports of your own :)
[15:37] <grimmware> sdeziel: do you know what the timescale for that is liable to be?
[15:38] <grimmware> like, roughly at release or ~weeks ~months later?
[15:40] <sdeziel> grimmware: I don't know of any dates but it shouldn't be too long for 5.19 to be available for 22.04. You can readily install `linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04-edge` and if you use jammy-proposed, you'd get a 5.19 kernel
[15:41] <sdeziel> grimmware: eventually, 5.19 will move from hwe-edge to hwe
[15:41] <grimmware> !
[15:41] <grimmware> 5.19 actually has the base set of features I need I think
[15:41] <sdeziel> and once 23.04 releases, the same deal will happen with its kernel
[15:42] <sdeziel> grimmware: this is documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack which doesn't mention 22.04 yet but the packages are available :)
[15:42] <grimmware> sdeziel: awesome, thank you so much!
[15:43] <sdeziel> hey, my pleasure!
[15:43] <grimmware> sdeziel: do you know if they typically come with like, the -aws flavours?
[15:43] <jjohansen> grimmware: HWE kernel are literally the next release kernel built for the previous LTS
[15:44] <grimmware> jjohansen: gotcha
[15:45] <jjohansen> so once 22.10 was released, its kernel became available for 22.04, there could be a little delay due to the odd issue but it should get updated on the 3 week cadence
[15:46] <grimmware> awesome
[15:46] <jjohansen> the other thing to note is once you opt into HWE you are on a rolling release kernel so once 23.04 is released, it becomes the new HWE kernel
[15:47] <sdeziel> grimmware: I don't know for the other flavors. For AWS, it seems that `linux-image-aws` is what keeps moving forward as Focal get's Jammy's 5.15 with it
[15:47] <grimmware> sdeziel: that's interesting, I'll do a bit of research there
[15:48] <grimmware> it could very well be here that the answer is "don't change anything and wait"
[15:48] <sdeziel> grimmware: I use `rmadison $pkg_name`.
[15:48] <grimmware> sdeziel: TIL
[15:49] <sdeziel> grimmware: also, with HWE, you get the latest kernel available up to the next LTS at which point it stops moving forward. This means 20.04 + HWE will stop at 22.04 GA kernel (5.15)
[15:53] <grimmware> yeah so looking at this bionic host `linux-image-aws` did indeed jump from 4.15 up to 5.3 and then 5.4
[15:53] <grimmware> I think this conversation has just saved me quite a lot of work


[11:31] <Duke`> no more updates of the gfx stack (intel) on maverick ? ;_;
[11:48] <tjaalton> why bother, natty is around the corner
[18:20] <LLStarks> bug 747809
[18:20] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 747809 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Two-finger scrolling broken with latest updates (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747809
[21:10] <LLStarks> yo cnd
[21:10] <LLStarks> can we talk about synaptics?


[02:46] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:12] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[08:32] <ducasse> good morning
[14:36] <scortal> good afternoon
[14:39] <lotuspsychje> welcome scortal
[15:10] <scortal> hi
[15:15] <scortal> hi"!
[15:39] <scortal> hi
[15:39] <daftykins> please stop that, this is not how to use IRC
[15:48] <scortal> IRC ftw}
[15:52] <daftykins> ok, troll confirmed
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> scortal: I've been watching you. The IRC guidelines for Ubuntu channels apply here too. One of the guidelines is "Don't be annoying".
[15:54] <scortal> ok"!
[19:58] <mahmoud_> Hello, I am curious about the switching in Barcelona government from Windows to Linux and open source, are there any signs in schools and offices?
[21:01] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue725 now available: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue725 :D
[21:06] <ogra> wheee !