[00:01] <Seeker`> :(
[00:12] <ikonia> kris: hi, how can we help ?
[00:13] <kris> Hi ikonia. I was going to ask about updating a factoid on ubottu, but I just discovered the syntax. Thanks.
[00:13] <ikonia> ok
[00:18]  * tsimpson removes ikonia's "private" session
[00:19] <ikonia> tsimpson: a drink of your choice is available to you
[00:20] <LjL> no "ikonia is dumb" comments were added meanwhile?
[00:20] <LjL> (i didn't add any only because of laziness, mind)
[00:21] <Seeker`> tsimpson: how do you remove it?
[00:21] <tsimpson> Seeker`: manually
[00:21] <Seeker`> was it stored in the db?
[00:21] <LjL> !hammertime
[00:21] <Seeker`> or flat file?
[00:21] <LjL> like this
[00:21] <tsimpson> in the database
[00:26] <tsimpson> sessions expire after 90 days, apparently
[00:27] <tsimpson> so you only really have to @btlogin every 90 days
[00:28] <LjL> except everyone is using @btlogin in place of a browser bookmark to begin with :)
[00:28] <Seeker`> tsimpson: perhaps a shorter expire period is more sensible?
[00:29] <LjL> 90 days or 9 hours are both bad enough if someone sees it from the logs
[00:29] <tsimpson> well, I didn't choose that period and I don't force people to use @btlogin every 10 minutes either :)
[00:30] <tsimpson> there are currently 375 sessions registered
[00:31] <Seeker`> I say set it to 15 mins or so
[00:31] <LjL> tsimpson, if people actually did have a bookmark, and were only required to @btlogin every 90 days, then they'd never remember how "the whole login business" is done, and they'd ask you every time.
[00:31] <LjL> Seeker`: you kidding?
[00:32] <tsimpson> LjL: interesting statistic, you have the most sessions ;)
[00:32] <LjL> tsimpson: of course i do, i use it the most too.
[00:32] <tsimpson> 80 to be exact
[00:32] <LjL> tsimpson: make another statistics - what percentage of entries were due to me :)
[00:33] <Seeker`> LjL: no, not at all
[00:33] <Seeker`> you may use the BT a lot, but I would guess that most people just do @btlogin when they want to access it
[00:34] <LjL> Seeker`: i really don't think that's a good idea...
[00:34] <tsimpson> erm, lots
[00:34] <LjL> Seeker`: @btlogin originally wasn't even there. you had a bookmark in the browser, and i think some people will still expect that to work most of the time, and i couldn't blame them
[00:34] <tsimpson> the "best" way would be for the bot to check if a session is still active and return that on @btlogin
[00:35] <Seeker`> and have an expire function too
[00:37] <tsimpson> maybe I'll think about it when I redesign the bantracker
[00:37] <tsimpson> unless someone else wants to do it for me? (he says knowing the answer is "no")
[00:42]  * genii toys with the idea of doing it then runs away
[00:44] <Pici> I halfway rewrote the bantracker once..
[00:46] <tsimpson> LjL: 16.42%
[00:47] <tsimpson> Pici: I'm probably going to rewrite it from scratch sometime
[00:47] <LjL> tsimpson: only? :o
[00:48] <Pici> Hrm, we lost the irc guidelines in #u's topic, I just added them back in.
[00:48] <LjL> tsimpson: oh, and, "no"
[00:48] <Pici> Not that anyone reads them anyway.
[00:48] <LjL> Pici: perhaps you could remove the torrent link by now?
[00:49] <Pici> LjL: good idea
[00:52]  * tsimpson sleeps
[01:17]  * genii sips
[01:20] <Pici> So much for giving someone a chance.
[01:22] <Madpilot> he's in -ot now, more or less playing nice
[01:23] <Pici> Madpilot: thanks for the heads up
[01:24] <LjL> more less than more imo
[01:25] <Madpilot> still a Mac-troll
[01:26] <Madpilot> mikem calling someone out as "kind of trolling" - the irony, it burnz
[01:26] <Pici> LjL: Even underscores thinks hes trolling.
[01:26] <Pici> Madpilot: aha
[01:31] <LjL> Pici: oh? then i take it back, he's probably not a troll
[01:32] <Chr|s> Question: Freenode's IRC Guidelines for all #ubuntu- Channels or All channels period?
[01:32] <LjL> freenode guidelines are for freenode as a whole
[01:32] <Madpilot> there's freenode's guidelines, and the Ubuntu CoC
[01:32] <LjL> ubuntu channnels have their specific guidelines, usually
[01:33] <Madpilot> the coc is more restrictive, mostly
[01:33] <Pici> !guidelines
[01:33] <Chr|s> I see
[01:34] <Madpilot> !coc
[01:34] <Pici> The CoC is part of our IRC Guidelines.
[01:35] <Chr|s> alright, so what about someone dropping the f-bomb constantly?
[01:35] <Madpilot> not cool
[01:35] <Madpilot> which channel?
[01:36] <Chr|s> not an ubuntu related channel though
[01:36] <LjL> Chr|s: they can do it if the channel rules allow it
[01:36] <Chr|s> LjL: ahh, ok
[01:36] <Chr|s> Thats all I needed to know
[01:37] <Pici> Chr|s: This may be confusing you, I don't know, but I'll just point it out anyway: you may have connected to irc.ubuntu.com, but thats just a pointer to irc.freenode.net.  Ubuntu does not run the entire IRC network.
[01:38] <Chr|s> Pici: Yeah, I figured as much.
[01:38] <Chr|s> Thanks
[01:39] <LjL> ok "freetard" is too much now imo
[01:39] <Madpilot> it was almost easier before Ubuntu had it's own IRC gateway - everyone knew that only #ubuntu-* namespace channels were ours...
[01:39] <LjL> Madpilot: we have a gateway?
[01:39] <Chr|s> I'm actually surprised its not like that now? I mean...it makes sense
[01:40] <Madpilot> LjL, irc.ubuntu.com?
[01:40] <LjL> Madpilot: ah, well that's just a DNS entry to freenode.net... "gateway" is usually meant as something like mibbit
[01:41] <Madpilot> true, I guess.
[01:41] <Chr|s> CoCo guy has issues
[01:42] <Chr|s> ubuntu should have there own irc server :)
[01:42] <LjL> why?
[01:42] <Madpilot> "freetards" three times was at least two too many
[01:42] <LjL> i'm pretty happy to share this space with users of other nice distributions and programs
[01:42] <Madpilot> Freenode is useful - lots and lots of other projects here, easy to get support
[01:42] <LjL> Madpilot: and dmsuperman has a point, too.
[01:43] <Chr|s> Yeah, I didn't quite think of that. Thats true.
[01:43] <Madpilot> LjL, that too. Like I said in my remove msg, "more than enough rope"
[01:44] <Chr|s> Thanks for the information :D
[01:44] <Chr|s> Bye! \o
[01:48] <genii> Pici: Apologies, didn't see your reply on the mis-informative backports thing til after i hit Enter already
[01:49] <Pici> genii: It was only a few seconds anyway, np
[01:50] <Pici> Madpilot: theres also #swineflu-erotica aparrently, and I'm definitely not going to check that either
[01:50] <Pici> And not mentioning it in -ot either
[01:50] <LjL> oh lord
[01:50] <Madpilot> dear sweet FSM
[01:50] <Madpilot> thank you for not mentioning that on -ot...
[01:51] <Madpilot> it's as bad as paging thru old Usenet group names, and wondering who'd be brave enough to issue a RFC for some of them...
[01:52] <LjL> Madpilot: as opposed to the NEW usenet, which is fine and functional?
[01:53] <LjL> and completely not overwhelmed by its usage as a sort of illegal filesharing space?
[01:53] <Madpilot> there's a new Usenet? One not drowned in trollshit & warez?
[01:53] <LjL> Madpilot: no - i meant THAT usenet.
[01:54] <Madpilot> thought so. I miss the functional Usenet - some of the best discussion groups I've ever come across. Before the trolls drowned it all.
[01:57] <Madpilot> now all that signal is spread out over dozens of crappy little forums & Yahoo groups, and Usenet is all noise. Bleh.
[02:08] <LjL> Madpilot: i share that feeling so much. forums and stuff are all so... ephemeral
[02:08] <LjL> (aside from being hypertext being used for something else)
[02:08] <Madpilot> for sure
[02:09] <LjL> Madpilot: it's funny that a lot of the acronyms and words and stuff we tend to use on IRC now are really usenet derived
[02:10] <Madpilot> back in 2002 or so, there was one rec.aviation.piloting - now there's dozens of little forums, and rap is a textbook case of 'drowned in trollshit'
[02:13] <LjL> Madpilot: on the other hand, to be fair to forums, i can presently go to a place where to discuss not just public transport in general, but public transport in my city specifically, with subforums for the trams and the subways
[02:13] <LjL> that was not particularly feasible on Usenet (or at any rate, it wasn't done)
[02:14] <Madpilot> specialization is easier w/ forums, vice attempting to start a new Usenet sub-group, true
[02:15] <Madpilot> but that's both a strength and a weakness. How many forums get abandoned, never really attract a community, or never even get discovered?
[02:15] <LjL> Madpilot: yes, trying to create a new usenet group in the big 8 (but in it.* too, for that matter) was akin to trying to create a new channel in the #ubuntu hierarchy in bureaucratic complexity, for sure ;P
[02:16] <LjL> Madpilot: true, but specialized forums were bound to be created, people wanted them
[02:16] <LjL> perhaps it would have been a better idea to make it easy to create them *on* Usenet
[02:20] <Madpilot> unmoderated Usenet groups were probably doomed anyway once the spammers & trolls discovered them... some of the moderated ones are still functional even today
[02:21] <LjL> Madpilot: nevertheless, "some of the moderated ones are still functional even today" isn't a slogan an advertizer would use
[02:22] <Madpilot> heh
[02:24] <LjL> Madpilot: methinks the problem with most of the moderated ones is that they're pre-moderated anyway. post-moderation like on 999.9% of current forums is feasible, pre-moderation not so much
[02:25] <Madpilot> true - pre-mod requires far more activity of the mod
[02:27] <LjL> Madpilot: also makes it less attractive to users. usenet is not real-time but sometimes part of its attractiveness can be the quick exchanges of posts
[02:28] <Madpilot> also true; the problem is unmoderated channels inevitably seem to drown in spam & trolling. See also, YouTube comments...
[02:29] <LjL> Madpilot: ok, so post-moderation like forums is the way - but it was never very popular in usenet culture, probably also due to difficulty of implementation
[02:30] <LjL> i need a reboot
[02:42]  * genii wanders back in to some lengthy scroll to review, and heads to the coffeepot
[03:47] <genii> Hehehe they are missing the !no /u  in -offtopic just a littl while ago
[05:57]  * genii sips his decaf and plans sleep at some point
[06:06] <genii> Bah
[06:21] <zhxk> hello, may you remove me from the band list to #ubuntu?
[06:21] <zhxk> I'm a good ubuntu user
[06:26] <Madpilot> @btlogin
[06:26] <bazhang> serial ban evader iirc
[06:27] <Madpilot> fun
[06:27] <Madpilot> remind me what the URL for our banlist database is again? Brainfart...
[06:28] <bazhang> !bot
[06:28] <bazhang> should be there ^^
[06:31] <Madpilot> it's there somewhere, but no publicly-visible links
[06:32] <bazhang> maybe an @login first?
[06:32] <bazhang> the @btlogin should open a ubottu PM
[06:32] <Madpilot> @btlogin
[06:33] <Madpilot> @btlogin
[06:33] <Madpilot> odd.
[06:33] <Madpilot> no PM
[06:33] <bazhang> ie first @login
[06:33] <Madpilot> @login
[06:33]  * genii slides bazhang a coffee
[06:33] <bazhang> now :)
[06:33] <Madpilot> there we go
[06:33] <Madpilot> @btlogin
[06:33] <bazhang> genii, thanks :)
[06:34] <genii> np :)
[06:34] <Madpilot> after that convincing demonstration that I know what I'm doing, I need a drink. There's good rum upstairs...
[06:34] <bazhang> works here Madpilot
[06:34] <Madpilot> likewise here. forgot about login then btlogin
[06:34] <bazhang> could be the authorization was removed when they lost ubottu a couple fo days ago
[06:34] <bazhang> ah okay :)
[06:38] <bazhang> zhxk, how may we help you
[06:42] <bazhang> zhxk, if you have no business here then please, part the channel as per the /topic
[06:42] <zhxk> excuse me, what should i do, to join #ubuntu?
[06:43] <bazhang> zhxk, you are banned? for what reason?
[06:43] <zhxk> bazhang:because a joke
[06:44] <zhxk> bazhang:when i was have breaktime with the folks in #ubntu, i was band
[06:44] <zhxk> bazhang:when i was having breaktime with the folks in #ubntu, i was band
[06:45] <bazhang> zhxk, what joke
[06:47] <zhxk> "hi folks, lack of money? follow me, i'll take you to Somali sea to fetch some."
[06:48] <bazhang> zhxk, #ubuntu is support only channel not chat/joke channel
[06:48] <zhxk> it's ok in a nother cahhnel, someone says that he can't swim
[06:49] <zhxk> en, i see
[06:50] <bazhang> zhxk, not sure what you mean; you ban dodged as well after the ban?
[06:50] <zhxk> i'm fresh to the network, just have read the topic to #ubuntu in the channel list
[06:50] <bazhang> !coc | zhxk read this
[06:51] <bazhang> !guidelines | zhxk and this
[06:52] <bazhang> zhxk, the operator who banned you is not around, it would be wise to consult with him, and explain your 'joke' and subsequent ban-evading
[06:53] <zhxk> bazhang:who is the operator did?
[06:53] <bazhang> zhxk, did you read those two links I gave you?
[06:54] <zhxk> and how could i contact to him? well,i'm going go read the links
[06:56] <jussi01> zhxk: if you could read those links and pop back in a couple of hours that would be great.
[06:59] <jussi01> Anyway, Im off to work. see you all later.
[07:00] <zhxk> see you
[07:01] <zhxk> what's the meaning of "pop back"?
[07:02] <bazhang> return zhxk
[07:05] <bazhang> ikonia, you about?
[07:06] <bazhang> zhxk, you read the links? keep in mind that #ubuntu is a busy channel, and #ubuntu-offtopic is the chat channel.
[07:08] <zhxk> I see
[07:08] <zhxk> the wwritting is good
[07:08] <bazhang> zhxk, you did read the links then?
[07:09] <zhxk> i'm reading
[07:12] <genii> Laters, sleep calls
[07:12] <bazhang> night
[07:16] <zhxk> night? night or right?
[07:18] <zhxk> well, if i was away useing /away reasons, how to get back then?
[07:35] <bazhang> jussi01, if you could step in, I have to get to work as well..
[08:21] <Flannel> zhxk: /away
[08:21] <Flannel> zhxk: Or, usually.
[09:06] <zhxk> Flannel:nothing happens if /away issued
[09:11] <topyli> zhxk: the document you're reading is probably referring to public away messages. away reasons are good, public announcements are not
[09:23] <zhxk> topyli:well, i may just keep silent for away, i have know billions of ziltch
[09:23] <ikonia> zhxk: morinng
[09:23] <ikonia> morning even
[09:25] <zhxk> +iknoia:morning, what is the time at your place?
[09:25] <ikonia> before 12:00
[09:25] <ikonia> zhxk: you want to be unbanned as I understand it ?
[09:26] <zhxk> ikonia:yes, unbanding is desired
[09:27] <ikonia> zhxk: ok, so can you explain why you have behaved like you have done ?
[09:27] <ikonia> 1.) with "joke" links 2.) persistant ban dodging in multiple channels 3.) freenode staff have had to step in because you where that much of an issue in #debian
[09:28] <ikonia> the last two do not effect your ban - however because of the effort reqruied with them, I'm asking you to explain them as I feel it shows your behaviour in ubuntu was not a "joke" and that you are a serial issue in general
[09:30] <ikonia> for futher reference - you also admitted you knew you where ban dodging in a pm to me - so if you can explain that, I'm more than happy to look at lifting the ban
[09:35] <ikonia> zhxk: are you still there ?
[09:35] <zhxk> iknoia:i'm here now
[09:35] <ikonia> ok, if you could respond to my questions we'll see if we can sort this out
[09:41] <Myrtti> zhxk: we're not going to lift the bans if you don't answer the questions
[09:42] <ikonia> this is typical behaviour
[09:42] <Myrtti> yup
[09:43] <Myrtti> zhxk: we're not going to play cat and mouse with you for long
[09:44] <zhxk> 1.)well as you know the Smolia sea is not so peace, and news about piracy is so close and frequent.  2.) i'm studying linux systems so i need to to have conversations with others that have the same interesting. 3)what do you mean?
[09:44] <ikonia> zhxk 2.) ban evading - why do you persistantly try to get around bans in multiple channels (the fact that you are banned in multiple channels is not a good sign)
[09:45] <ikonia> 3.) you where an issue in #debian yesterday and freenode staff had to get involved, as I also had to involve freenode staff yesterday
[09:45] <ikonia> as I said - these are not factors on your ban, I'm trying to understand your behaviour
[09:46] <ikonia> I asked you why you where trying to ban dodge and you played stupid with me like you didn't know what you where doing, but then you changed and said you did know what you where doing and wanted to know how I worked out it was you
[09:46] <ikonia> that to me tells me you know what you are doing when you are being a problem - and playing dumb about it
[09:46] <ikonia> hence why I'm asking you the questions
[09:48] <zhxk> konia:i know, you mean the channel #cross-lfs?
[09:48] <ikonia> I'm saying specific - I'm asking you about your behaviour in general
[09:54] <ikonia> zhxk: hello ?
[09:54] <zhxk> ikonia:well,intractable questions to answer, my english is not so good, i come to here for questions and helps
[09:55] <ikonia> zhxk: I understand your English is not the best, don't worry about that
[09:55] <ikonia> zhxk: you seem to be able to pick which questions you understand so I'll try to make it clear
[09:55] <ikonia> zhxk: "Why do you try to get around bans in channels"
[09:56] <zhxk> ikonia:well, just for stay with experts that may help
[09:57] <ikonia> ok, that's enough for me - zhxk from my point of view I don't think you should be in the #ubuntu channels at this time
[09:57] <zhxk> iknoia:i don't know how to contact to them outside a channel yet
[09:57] <ikonia> zhxk: in my opinion you know exactly what you are doing
[09:57] <ikonia> zhxk: you did - you contacted me outside the channel
[09:58] <ikonia> and you knew how to contact the other operator who banned you and also pm flooded him
[09:58] <ikonia> my personal opinion based on what I've seen from you is that you know what you are doing
[09:58] <zhxk> ikonia:i just got it
[09:58] <elky> zhxk, what is your language?
[09:59] <ikonia> zhxk: I'd say come back in a week and lets see if your reputation has improved
[10:00] <zhxk> iknoia:i havn't found a way to declare who is the expert without observing their behivers in channels yet
[10:03] <zhxk> ikonia:do you mean pm--personal message?
[10:03] <zhxk> pm=personal message?
[10:03] <ikonia> correct
[10:04] <ikonia> zhxk: I suggest you come back in a week and see if you have lost your tag of trouble
[10:06] <ikonia> do you understand what I'm saying
[10:06] <zhxk> 1)"come back in a week"? come back to #ubuntu ina week? 2)tag? what's tag?
[10:06] <ikonia> zhxk: come back to this channel in a week. tag - is badge, label, mark,
[10:07] <elky> zhxk, 'tag' is what people think when they see you
[10:08] <zhxk> i'm starting to comprehend
[10:08] <elky> zhxk, where are you from?
[10:08] <Myrtti> china
[10:08] <zhxk> correct
[10:08] <Myrtti> broad.wz.zj.dynamic.163data.com.cn
[10:09] <zhxk> people don't use irc in china
[10:10] <elky> zhxk, you should always act like your parents or grandparents are watching you.
[10:10] <elky> that's for *all* internet behaviour.
[10:11] <zhxk> en, good idea, i may having funs in a channel that usaly shuldn't
[10:12] <ikonia> well I must get back to what I was doing for 25 minutes, elky / Myrtti would you be dreams and finish up for me please.
[10:13] <ikonia> zhxk: sorry - I have to step out for a short while
[10:13] <zhxk> go ahead
[10:13] <elky> zhxk, we will still wait and watch you to see how well you go at behaving. you can come back and see us in a week from now.
[10:15] <zhxk> so,may i ask ubuntu related questions here instead of #ubuntu?
[10:16] <elky> zhxk, no. you can use the ubuntuforums.org boards instead. or the chinese version of the forums
[10:16] <elky> http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/ i believe is the chinese forums
[10:17] <zhxk> logger
[10:19] <elky> you dont need to be in this channel for the next week.
[10:20] <zhxk> good forum! see you later
[10:33] <elky> zhxk, you should leave this channel so we dont confuse you for other people
[10:47] <elky> zhxk, this channel has a no-idling policy.
[10:52] <zhxk> iknoia:well, i'm reading what you have said, and begin to comprehend, there may be a misapprehension:i pm flood none of people. and i should to admit that i once had type may "a' with enter key, thought it might be a way to clean up the the screen, that scrools to fast, sorry to that.
[11:05] <Myrtti> zhxk: please leave and come back in a week
[11:07] <zhxk> Myrtti:do you mean live this channel, and then return after that?
[11:07] <Myrtti> yes, next week the same time
[11:09] <zhxk> in a week means that?
[11:09] <zhxk> okay, byebye
[11:38] <bazhang> odd choice of newnick
[11:39] <elky> he just attacked #debian-offtopic
[11:40] <bazhang> so the reading comprehension fail was just a scam?
[11:41] <elky> of course it was
[11:41] <bazhang> aha
[11:41] <elky> he was perfectly comprehensive with stew earlier
[11:42] <elky> bazhang, http://pastebin.ca/1408342
[11:42] <bazhang> glad I did not unban at the time then, and called up i k o n i a
[11:42] <bazhang> elky, thanks
[11:49] <elky> he does not appear to be on freenode currently
 hello, how to setup an irc server on debian?
[12:58] <elky> bazhang, -ENOCONTEXT
[12:58] <bazhang> elky, sorry, he was just asking that in #freenode
[12:58] <jussi01_> anyone got backlog of planet ubuntu?
[12:59] <bazhang> wonder if he has been banned from #debian as well
[12:59] <elky> bazhang, he is. thats why the log above exists
[12:59] <bazhang> whoa, #debian then debian-ot, seems a pattern emerging
[13:00] <jussi01_> Im looking for a post from about a week back from someone explaining stuff about jaunty release. mighta been emma jane?
[13:01] <elky> jussi01_, try going to her blog specifically and looking at her archives
[13:01] <jussi01_> elky: yeah, Im looking...
[13:02] <jussi01_> nope, wasnt emma jane :/
[13:02] <jussi01_> grr
[13:02] <jussi01_> I need it
[13:03] <jussi01_> where is Myrtti  when I need her...
[13:04] <elky> bazhang, no, not banned from #d it seems
[13:06] <Pici> jussi01_: Any more context than that? I need something to search for on Google Reader
[13:06] <Pici> jussi01_: Searching for Jaunty and/or Release isn't going to narrow things down much
[13:08] <Myrtti> jussi01_: packing
[13:10] <Myrtti> jussi01_: maco?
[13:10] <Myrtti> jussi01_: http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2009/04/jaunty-faq.html
[13:17] <Myrtti> right, laptop goes off now
[13:21] <bazhang> oh erry is back
[13:25] <elky> bazhang, any problems from her yet?
[13:25] <bazhang> elky, still banned from #ubuntu channels
[13:26] <bazhang> just making more threats against freenode
[13:26] <elky> then you dont need to worry.
[13:26] <bazhang> right, sorry.
[13:30] <Pici> topyli: I take it that wasn't his first language warning?
[13:31] <topyli> his language was a coincidence
[13:31] <topyli> simply removing a troll
[14:14] <stew> ikonia: what problem was zhxk making in #debian?
[14:14] <ikonia> stew: few days ago you mentioned you where having a hard time with him
[14:14] <ikonia> he was just repeating things on Tuesday.
[14:15] <stew> yeah, i had a hard time understanding english to help him get root mounted from his initrd
[14:15] <ikonia> help
[14:15] <ikonia> help
[14:15] <ikonia> help
[14:15] <ikonia> that sort of thing
[14:15] <ikonia> (but with slightly bigger gaps)
[14:15] <ikonia> I can't make up my mind on his intention as he seems to have selective communication issues
[14:16] <stew> oh, i had no idea this was happening in #debian too
[14:16] <ikonia> and ubuntu
[14:16] <ikonia> and a few others
[14:16] <ikonia> although he was banned from ubuntu for a stupid phisging gag
[14:16] <ikonia> phishing even
[14:17] <stew> i've gone through everything he's done in ubuntu several times
[14:17] <ikonia> oh really
[14:17] <stew> i've never seen him do anything wrong in #debian, where he has spoken a lot more
[14:17] <ikonia> I've hardly speen him speak in #debian - but thank again I'm not that active in there
[14:18] <ikonia> thank again ??? sorry, then again
[14:22] <stew> i can't find him doing anything wrong in #debian
[14:22] <stew> other than having a hard time with english
[14:26] <ikonia> fair enough
[14:27] <ikonia> you'll note he attempted to ban dodge in here again, changed his nick and tried to join #ubuntu so was forwarded here
[14:27] <ikonia> I'll try to see if I have the logs from debian
[14:28] <bazhang> #debian-offtopic was banned
[14:28] <ikonia> nah, I'm pretty sure it was in #debian
[14:28] <bazhang> paste is above from e l k y
[14:29] <ikonia> he's not a pain in any channels for me at the moment so it's a non-issue, however the ban dodging and selective english does make me question his level of ability and intention
[14:32] <stew> i think his selective english is due to selectively working translation software
[14:32] <stew> and I maintain that he doesn't have malicious intent, but cluelessness
[14:33] <ikonia> whats with the ban dodging ?
[14:33] <LjL> about who we are talking? i be not sure.
[14:33] <stew> he thought he was banned in error.  he didn't know that you banned him or why becuase he had you on ignore
[14:34] <ikonia> what about in ubuntu
[14:34] <stew> and I don't think he realized how serious of a problem ban dodging is
[14:34] <ikonia> and he thought he was banned in error 4 times and after a pm conversation asking him to stop
[14:35] <ikonia> and he's just tried it in here by the looks of it, 30 seconds after being asked not to ?
[14:35] <ikonia> LjL: zxkh
[14:35] <stew> ikonia: what nick did he use in here?
[14:35] <LjL> the one with the treasure?!
[14:35] <stew> yes
[14:35] <bazhang> bush
[14:36] <ikonia> yes, bush, sorry can't see the log
[14:36] <bazhang> * bush<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-ops
[14:36] <stew> ok
[14:36] <ikonia> and as we saw yesterday he was trying multiple clients to get passed bans
[14:36] <ikonia> eg 2 - 3 people on line at the same time
[14:36] <LjL> he currently has two online
[14:37] <LjL> ikonia: by the way, banning ?=zhxk@ instead of i=zhxk@ will prevent his from joining after turning identd off :)
[14:37] <LjL> (which he has in one of the two clients he's online as)
[14:38] <ikonia> LjL: nice tip, thank you
[14:39] <Pici> I suggest always using ?= instead of n= or i= for any bans.
[14:40] <ikonia> LjL:  Pici updated, will do
[14:40] <ikonia> thank you
[14:40] <LjL> might also want to ban @125.109.2* if you really want him banned
[14:41] <LjL> he's used to subnets in the past, one is that and one is the one you banned already
[14:43] <ikonia> just keep any eye on him, he's causing no problem for us at the moment, unless you feel strongly enough to put a ban on the other ip
[14:43] <ikonia> as I said, I'm not %100 of his intent, but I believe due to phising/selective translation/ban dodging it's not good
[14:45] <ikonia> LjL: can you remember who approached you about lifting erry's ban, there was two freenode staff members trying to mentor her
[14:47] <LjL> ikonia: w00t
[14:47] <ikonia> ?
[14:47] <Pici> ikonia: w00t is the staff members nick
[14:47] <ikonia> ahh
[14:47] <stew> (who's technically not staff)
[14:47] <ikonia> sorry thought it was a "Jauntys out" type of w00t
[14:49] <Pici> stew: For some reason I'm thinking that he was involved with atheme but had some sort of special freenode staff status, or am I just making things up?
[14:49] <LjL> w00t!n=w00t@freenode/developer/w00t
[14:49] <Pici> now unaffiliated/w00t
[14:49] <LjL> yes
[14:49] <LjL> was freenode developer when he approached me
[15:09] <zhxk> hello?
[15:09] <bazhang> zhxk, hi
[15:10] <zhxk> is it forbidon to switch name?
[15:11] <bazhang> normally no; to evade bans yes
[15:11] <stew> zhxk: it is forbidden to use a different name to try to get around your ban, as I made it perfectly clear to you multiple times
[15:11] <stew> zhxk: which you claim you understood
[15:11] <stew> and you claim to recall my telling you that yesterday
[15:12] <zhxk> exactly
[15:12] <stew> zhxk: so you ask #ubuntu-ops in order to confirm what I've said?
[15:14] <zhxk> well,take it easy, i'm studying how to have a good atmosphere over IRC
[15:15] <LjL> carbon credits are the key
[15:17] <zhxk> what is carbon credits?
[15:19] <LjL> basically i don't troll for a week, and you can pay me an amount of money to freely troll for a week in my place
[15:19] <Pici> LjL: don't give him any ideas.
[15:19] <ikonia> zhxk: why did you change your nickname to "bush" and try to re-enter ubuntu ?
[15:19] <ikonia> or did you rejoin this channel on purpose ?
[15:23] <zhxk> well, it seems that you have all the records, but i really dont retry to enter #ubuntu again
[15:23] <ikonia> ok,
[15:26] <zhxk> any questions about me?
[15:26] <ikonia> not from me
[15:28] <zhxk> have a nice time
[15:28] <ikonia> and you
[15:30] <bazhang> ?
[15:31] <bazhang> zhxk, thought you were going to re-join here in a week from now
[15:32] <zhxk> anyway, i have to thanks to stew, that he/she gave me a way to have conversation to #ubuntu-ops, otherwise, i'll dont know its exitance
[15:32] <zhxk> ok
[15:32] <zhxk> bye
[16:48] <Pici> Well, at least sometimes -offtopic is self-policing.
[16:48] <LjL> Pici: maybe, but that's not a case demonstrating such... :(
[16:49] <Pici> LjL: not really.
[16:49] <Pici> LjL: er, I mean you're right.
[16:49] <LjL> Pici: yes, sure, i did not understand not something not different from what you didn't mean
[16:51] <Pici> LjL: I'm glad we're on the same page then
[17:12] <LjL> stew, #ubuntu in case you didn't get hilighted
[17:13] <stew> great
[17:13] <stew> expect him to return shortly
[17:13] <stew> this is MagnusSwe if that means anything to you guys
[17:13] <stew> (afact)
[17:13] <LjL> doesn't ring a bell here
[17:14] <stew> gadmintools upstream author
[17:15] <LjL> oh lord?!
[17:15] <LjL> at least i'm pretty sure i've never used that program, that's a relief
[17:16] <Pici> who is who?
[17:16] <genii> I think you need to uppercase the X on that nick in #u he's still around
[17:17] <LjL> genii: he was just muted
[17:17] <genii> Ah, OK
[17:17] <Pici> And nicks aren't case sensitive.
[17:17] <Pici> Rather, bans are not case sensitive.
[17:18] <LjL> Pici: magnusswe is x0rcitic if i understood this correctly, and google confirms magnusswe is the author of that program (which is in our repositories, too)
[17:18] <stew> i'm not positive its magnusswe
[17:18] <stew> but it feels like it
[17:18] <LjL> stew: anyway, if it feels like it, it means this magnusswe is pretty bad anyway.
[17:19] <stew> someone from sweden that feels like i don't have the right to persecute them becuase they are an open source developer and I am not
[17:19] <stew> which is wrong on many points
[17:19] <stew> which certainly feels like magnusswe
[17:20] <genii> My first thought at seeing the nick is that X0rcitic was also X0rbit   ... although the hostmask is different
[17:20] <LjL> it's quite demoralizing
[17:20] <stew> but what just happened in #ubuntu is a spillover of me muting whoever it is from dialup.ice.net in ##linux
[18:20] <genii> "<ubottu> cut off..."     factoid !derivatives   too large or so?
[18:20] <LjL> i guess, i've seen it happen sometimes but kind of inconsistently
[18:21] <LjL> (and for the record, if it's intended, i don't think it's a good idea to put that on a separate line...)
[18:21] <genii> Maybe with usage like !factoid | theirname                    if the factoid is within the length of their username of being too large or something
[18:22] <tsimpson> !-derivatives
[18:22] <tsimpson> genii:
[18:22] <LjL> wha
[18:22] <LjL> !derivatives-also
[18:23]  * LjL is perplexed
[18:23] <genii> Yes, that is weird
[18:23] <tsimpson> it's an -also
[18:23] <LjL> yes but why on earth is it there
[18:23] <Pici> !derivatives
[18:23] <tsimpson> ask the author :)
[18:24] <Pici> ubottu: forget derivatives-also
[18:24] <LjL> [01:19] <Pricey> oh, !derivatives references !mintsupport
[18:24] <LjL> [01:19] <Pici> yes
[18:24] <LjL> [01:19] <Pricey> !derivatives is also cut off...
[18:24] <LjL> [18:24] <Pici> oops
[18:24]  * LjL rolls eyes
[18:24] <Pici> :P
[18:24] <tsimpson> heh
[18:25]  * genii hands out more coffees
[18:25] <Pici> I was going to say I remember discussing that factoid with him
[18:25] <LjL> by the way, i still don't see why Linux Mint is being treated separately
[18:25] <LjL> and also where is Ultimate Edition gone
[18:27] <Pici> hrm, I could have sworn that was in there.
[18:27] <LjL> it was
[18:27] <LjL> no idea when it disappeared, not in my logs
[18:27] <Pici> LjL: because mint is not on this irc network
[18:28] <Pici> !mintsupport
[18:28] <tsimpson> mint isn't open source ;)
[18:28] <LjL> Pici: saying "support in #channel on network" (which is just what !mintsupport says) doesn't make it so awfully longer, does it
[18:28] <tsimpson> should that be an irc:// link?
[18:29] <Pici> Perhaps
[18:29] <LjL> if those work in realworld clients
[18:31] <tsimpson> works in xchat (right click -> connect)
[18:32] <LjL> isn't even treated as a link in my konversation, but then again konversation isn't a supported client anymore
[18:33] <tsimpson> it works in konversation for me
[18:33] <LjL> tsimpson: err... what's the actual syntax?
[18:34] <tsimpson> irc://<server>/<channel>
[18:34] <tsimpson> the # is optional in <channel>
[18:34] <LjL> doesn't work here then
[18:34] <LjL> i'm on some random svn
[18:34] <LjL> (of the 3.5 version)
[18:36] <tsimpson> buckets of fail in quassel
[18:36] <LjL> i thought quassel was *programmed* in fail? :P
[18:36] <tsimpson> btw, I have konversation 1.1-1ubuntu2
[18:37] <tsimpson> LjL: it sees it as a link, but tries to preview in in a WebKit window :p
[18:37] <LjL> tsimpson: i think my konqueror did something similar last time i tried
[18:40] <tsimpson> I remember there being some issue with konversation and kopete (kde3)
[18:40] <tsimpson> because both handle the irc:// protocol
[18:41] <LjL> it should go to telnet
[19:20] <Seeker`> aww
[20:18] <Pici> hrm.
[20:22] <Tetracomm> Hello. I found that the #ubuntu channel is filled with numerous people and that so many conversations are taking place at once, pushing people's questions and answers up before they are seen. I created two channels to help with this situation. One for audio/video issues in Ubuntu, and the other for compatibility, do you want to see them?
[20:23] <Pici> Tetracomm: This isn't the first time that this question has been brought up. We have weighed the pros and cons of doing this in the past and always come to the conclusion that it would be better to keep one channel.  By splitting the channels you acheive two things that we do not want:
[20:24] <Pici> 1) Everyone who joins gets told to ask their question somewhere else, so that #ubuntu just turns into a lobby. 2) You split the finite resources of people willing to support others into two channels.
[20:25] <Tetracomm> Ok.
[20:55] <Pici> stupid spammer
[20:56] <tsimpson> Pici: lawbreaker13 is in #ubuntu
[20:58] <Pici> tsimpson: ty
[21:09] <Pici> Gotta run for a bit, Sexuntu may be trouble in #u
[21:12] <Seeker`> that isn't really an appropriate nick is it?
[21:13] <LjL> oh lord the inappropriate nick witchhunt
[21:14] <LjL> sex means six in swedish, perhaps he's swedish
[21:21] <TornilloTorcido> Hola?
[21:21] <LjL> bonnesoir
[21:21] <TornilloTorcido> Tengo un problema con #ubuntu-es y #ubuntu-es-offtopic
[21:22] <TornilloTorcido> tienen historial de esos canales para que ustedes vean si realmente merecia ser baneado?
[21:22] <LjL> pregunta en #ubuntu-irc, este canal solo es dedicado a #ubuntu y otros canales anglohablantes
[21:22] <TornilloTorcido> porque P3L|C4N0 y erUSUL me banearon.
[21:23] <LjL> bueno, nada podemos hacer nosotros aqui, y el canal es de Pelicano, decide el
[21:23] <TornilloTorcido> ah, como que es de Pelicano? es su fundador??
[21:24] <LjL>  /msg chanserv info #ubuntu-es
[21:27] <TornilloTorcido> ah, gracias LjL
[21:27] <TornilloTorcido> pero lamentablemente ya intente hablar con Pelicano y no hubo respuesta.
[21:28] <LjL> TornilloTorcido: pues pregunta en #ubuntu-irc, creo que allí habia también otros operadores de #ubuntu-es
[21:29] <Seeker`> LjL: maybe, but its a british IP
[21:29] <LjL> Seeker`: i know. was just a way to say i think excessive nickpicking can be excessive
[21:33] <Seeker`> meh
[22:05] <Seeker`> Tetracomm: how can we help you?
[22:11] <Tetracomm> Hello. My question was answered already.
[22:11] <Tetracomm> They don't want any more Ubuntu channels.
[22:11] <Tetracomm> :(
[22:11] <Tetracomm> I still like the idea.
[22:12] <Seeker`> please don't idle in here
[23:00] <Flannel> ##ubuntu-av and ##ubuntu-compatability? really?
[23:07] <Seeker`> hmm?
[23:07] <tsimpson> those are the channels Tetracomm registered
[23:34] <Myrtti> greetings from Finland
[23:35] <Pici> Welcome back
[23:46] <Seeker`> heya Myrtti
[23:53] <Myrtti> hiya Seeker`
[23:53] <Seeker`> how be?


[11:41] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[11:42] <NightHwk> I just upgrade to ubuntu 16 and now I can't access my my share drive on anther computer because it won't take my network credentials. It keep asking and It work before the upgrade
[11:44] <NightHwk> I think it might have something to do with the keyring
[16:50] <luxbox5235> Hi, wondering if it is possible to install yakkety yak into an old box which has geforce fx 5200 graphics card, if so how do I go about doing it or would I need to install an older version such as lucid lynx
[16:55] <nicomachus> well, lucid isn't supported anymore so I wouldn't do that.
[16:55] <nicomachus> why yakkety and not xenial?
[16:57] <genii> The last release which supports the 173 driver set from Nvidia ( which is what the FX 5200 requires) is 14.04
[16:58] <genii> Also, only 64 bit
[17:33] <jtaylor> yey 14.04 -> 16.04 upgrade successful and it even works ok with my super crappy nvidia quadro :D
[17:34] <jtaylor> (note upgrade is not officially supported yet and should not be done unless you know what you are doing)


[00:09] <ebroder> kees: ++ for "block rare net module autoloading: INPROGRESS" :)
[00:12] <kees> ebroder: hehe :)
[00:12] <kees> ebroder: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2011-January/013990.html
[02:55] <lifeless> mathiaz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/650487
[11:45] <PetrHH> Hello
[11:45] <PetrHH> my program is using mysqld and stores data in user's home directories
[11:46] <PetrHH> so I have to add one rule to /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysqld
[11:46] <PetrHH> but I'm afraid what happens after update apparmor. Will be this file restored with default values?
[11:47] <PetrHH> May I create my own rule file and put it somewhere? Where?
[11:47] <PetrHH> Thank you for help.
[11:57] <soren> PetrHH: Your changes won't be overwritten.
[11:57] <shankao> I think that you'll be offered to keep, replace or diff the changes
[11:57] <soren> PetrHH: The user will be prompted about the changes.
[11:57] <soren> PetrHH: What I recommend instead is a separate file.
[11:57] <soren> PetrHH: That grants the additional privileges.
[12:00] <PetrHH> soren, Thank you. Separate file will be better. Do you have any idea where to place it and the name of file? I tried to find it in apparmor documentation but is is huge and very complicated.
[12:10] <soren> PetrHH: I'd rather leave that to someone who's actually any good with apparmour. jdstrand, perhaps? ^^
[12:14] <PetrHH> soren, Thank you for your help. I'll wait for jdstrand and will ask him.
[12:28] <sbeattie> PetrHH: /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysqld is a conf file, and so on updates you'd be prompted to keep or drop your changes to that file.
[12:28] <sbeattie> PetrHH: if you're running maverick, you can make your changes to /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.sbin.mysqld and it will keep them and avoid prompting you on updates.
[12:29] <sbeattie> (remember to do /etc/init.d/apparmor reload after making your changes)
[12:29] <PetrHH> sbeattie, I'm afraid whe user will be prompted, he will click to drop changes and it will be gone :-)
[12:30] <PetrHH> I'd like to have packages for version 10.04 and newer
[12:30] <PetrHH> and now using 10.04
[12:33] <soren> sbeattie: Is it possible to add a completely separate file that grants additional privileges to /usr/sbin/mysqld?
[12:34] <soren> sbeattie: Or will whichever is loaded last take precedence or something like that?
[12:34] <soren> sbeattie: ...since this doesn't really seem like "local" modifications. They're modifications that another package wants to make.
[12:37] <sbeattie> soren: the shipped apparmor policy needs to be constructed to do that, but yes, it's possible to arrange things so that additional packages can drop files into a .d/ directory that gets automatically included.
[12:38] <soren> sbeattie: Hm... Ok. What were to happen if I just added another file in /etc/apparmor.d/ that also tried to set some rules for a file that was covered by another file?
[12:38] <sbeattie> soren: we do this right now for the example apache2 profile we ship in (I think) the apparmor-profiles package; it automatically imports stuff from /etc/apparmor.d/apache2.d/
[12:40] <sbeattie> soren: they'll be treated as separate profiles, and one will be loaded instead of the other (last one wins, probably)
[12:40] <soren> sbeattie: Ok, that's what I thought.
[12:40] <soren> sbeattie: Thanks!
[12:40] <sbeattie> soren: sure
[12:41] <soren> PetrHH: So, it seems you want to file a bug against the mysql packages, asking for such a directory, and then you'd provide such a file in your package.
[12:41] <soren> jdstrand: Never mind, we sorted it out.
[12:43] <PetrHH> I add this @{HOME}/.config/cqrlog/database/** rwk, line to usr.sbin.mysqld
[12:44] <PetrHH> I'm not sure what you mean. I should add bug to mysql package and ask for add my line to apparmor profile?
[12:45] <soren> PetrHH: No.
[12:45] <soren> PetrHH: 12:37 < sbeattie> soren: the shipped apparmor policy needs to be constructed to do that, but yes, it's possible to arrange things so that
[12:45] <soren>                   additional packages can drop files into a .d/ directory that gets automatically included.
[12:46] <soren> PetrHH: So, you file a bug asking for such a .d/ directory, and then you adjust your package to drop a file into that directory, granting this additional privilege to mysqld.
[12:46] <sbeattie> PetrHH: after you file the bug, please add me as a subscriber to it (my launchpad id is the same as my irc nick)
[12:50] <PetrHH> sbeattie, I just tried to create new file called usr.sbin.mysqld-cqrlog and add my rules to it
[12:50] <PetrHH> and after that I restarted apparmor
[12:51] <PetrHH> and it is working
[12:51] <PetrHH> It looks like no bugs needed
[12:52] <sbeattie> PetrHH: no, the bug is still needed; in your case, your mysql profile with the added rules happens to be winning (or really, losing) a "race" and if the apparmor int script decides to load the policies in a different order in the future, it will stop working.
[12:55] <sbeattie> (also, if we ship a mysql update with an update to its apparmor profile, your copied profile won't get the changes.)
[12:55] <PetrHH> sbeattie, Now I understand. It works because my fire rewrites rules whis were set before
[13:19] <PetrHH> sbeattie, Is there any way how to do it? I have ask for that directory all distributions using apparmor and wait if they agree and add directory for me
[13:20] <PetrHH> I don't thing that is good.
[13:22] <PetrHH> I know that akonadi is also using mysqld
[13:22] <PetrHH> but it looks they have their own mysqld called mysqld-akonadi
[13:23] <PetrHH> so they just add their own rule to apparmor.d
[15:45] <cdbs> Any idea why this FTBFS is happening? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/62113228/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.haveged_0.9-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz Is GCC broken in natty?
[15:45] <cdbs> doko: ^
[15:56] <cdbs> Okay thanks, I got it
[16:00] <cr3> when preseeding, what's the difference between partman-partitioning/confirm_write_new_label and partman/confirm_write_new_label?
[16:01] <JackyAlcine> cr3: One writes a drive label, while the other a volume label.
[16:02] <cr3> JackyAlcine: thanks, exactly what I needed to know
[16:02] <JackyAlcine> No problem.
[16:03] <cjwatson> JackyAlcine: no, that is not correct.
[16:03] <cjwatson> cr3: the former exists, while the latter does not (any more).
[16:03] <cr3> cjwatson: since when?
[16:04] <cjwatson> cr3: partman-base 114, so hardy.
[16:05] <cr3> cjwatson: man, someone dropped the ball and that's me :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> in both cases, "label" refers to the partition table (traditionally called "disklabel" especially by the BSDs)
[16:05] <cjwatson> (I know they aren't quite the same thing but the abstraction is similar)
[16:08] <hallyn> tseliot: SpamapS is having broadcom troubles - dkms failed to build the module.  what manual steps can he take to get it up so he can run?
[16:09] <tseliot> hallyn: I need to see the error
[16:09] <hallyn> tseliot: he did symlink bcm43xx-0.fw under /lib/firmware/brcm
[16:09] <hallyn> hm
[16:09] <hallyn> tseliot: /var/lib/dkms/bcmwl/.../build/src/wl/sys/wl_linux.c: IN function 'wl_attach':
[16:09] <hallyn> 487:3: error: implicit declaration of function 'init_MUTEX'
[16:10] <doko> cdbs: look at the config.log?
[16:10] <cdbs> doko: I got it.
[16:10] <tseliot> hallyn: that happens without the patch that I uploaded
[16:10] <cdbs> doko: it was a simple change, the CC var was being set improperly
[16:10] <hallyn> he just updated this morning
[16:10] <hallyn> nm,
[16:10] <hallyn> tseliot: apparently he did not :)
[16:10] <hallyn> tseliot: thanks
[16:10] <tseliot> hallyn: np
[16:11] <hallyn> tseliot: however, i did a dpkg -i of the kernel package this morning (to revert some test changes), and lost the firwmare links again.
[16:11] <hallyn> tseliot: i just symlinked them and was back up, but assume i shouldn't have lost them
[16:11] <tseliot> hallyn: firmware links?
[16:12] <hallyn> /lib/firmware/brcm/bcm43xx-0.fw and bcm43xx_hdr-0.fw
[16:12] <hallyn> after dpkg -r linux-image; dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archive/linux-image....deb, they were gone
[16:12] <tseliot> hallyn: what problem are you trying to solve?
[16:13] <hallyn> tseliot: what do you mean?  i had a custom linux-image that i wanted to revert (with higher version # than current kernel)
[16:13] <hallyn> tseliot: point is just that 'dpkg -r; dpkg -i' seemed to kill my broadcom firwmare setup
[16:14] <hallyn> tseliot: so someone might end up having problems, is all i'm saying
[16:15] <tseliot> hallyn: the modules that dkms provides should override whatever the kernel has. I'm not sure about firmwares though
[16:15] <tseliot> this is why I was asking
[16:17] <hallyn> tseliot: after wireless wasn't working i tried to remove and install 'linux-firmware', but that didn't do it.  So basically I have no idea (a) why the firmware first disappeared, or (b) where it is *supposed* to come from  (am i supposed to do some dkms command?)
[16:21] <tseliot> hallyn: wait a second, the broadcom package shouldn't have anything to do with that firmware file. It only blacklists bcm43xx when you install it (it also does modprobe -r)
[16:22] <hallyn> tseliot: i have no idea what removed that firmware file
[16:23] <hallyn> if/when it happens again i'll try to pay more attention :)
[16:24] <tseliot> ok
[16:37] <apw> pitti, hey ... seems a huge hunk of kernel's WIs have gone missing: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.html
[16:37] <apw> pitti, aware of the cause ?
[16:41] <pitti> apw: I wasn't aware of that, no
[16:41] <pitti> apw: I added some extra textual "over time" report, but didn't change anything in the collector
[16:42] <apw> pitti, hrm, i wonder if it happened to anyone else
[16:42] <pitti> so it wasn't just your team dropping WIs for natty
[16:43] <apw> pitti, not that i am aware of, i see desktop has a smaller drop at the same time, much smaller
[16:44] <apw> pitti, but perhaps someone broke a work item list during an update
[16:44] <apw> pitti, so will investigate on that angle for now
[16:48] <apw> pitti, ok it seems to be all of one of my team members items which are gone, it must be user error, panic over
[16:50] <micahg> doko: a build error, foo is defined in DSO /usr/lib/bar.so is a no-add-needed error?
[16:50] <doko> micahg: most likely, yes. build log?
[16:50] <micahg> doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml++2.6/+bug/699897/+attachment/1787247/+files/last_operation.log
[16:51] <micahg> I just want to get the terminology right when upstreaming the patch
[16:51] <apw> jdstrand, hey .. have you been post-poning work items on n-security-apparmor ?
[16:51] <SpamapS> Hm, so I just updated to natty and it seems like many of my gnome settings are being ignored
[16:51] <SpamapS> err. updated to the latest natty, been on natty a while now
[16:52] <SpamapS> keyboard settings.. gtk theme.. all stuck at default
[16:52] <doko> micahg: "so try adding it to the linker command line" together with the information that the referenced symbol is not in a library but in examples/dom_build/main.o
[16:52] <micahg> doko: yeah, that works, I just wanted to know what to call it
[16:54] <pitti> apw: did your team structure change recently?
[17:00] <apw> pitti, turns out it is security ... they have posponed a bunch of stuff without marking them postponed, but by moving them over to a new invalid title
[17:00] <apw> i think i need to get them to copy them back ... will poke
[17:01] <pitti> apw: ah, that explains it, thanks!
[17:01] <kees> apw: right, we moved a huge chunk of future work out. we can dup it back as postponed if you want?
[17:01] <pitti> *phew*
[17:04] <robert_ancell> ScottK, The recent WebKit build failed due to differing C++ symbols (there is one .symbols file in the WebKit debian/ dir).  I tried the instructions in http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/symbolfiles.html, but it only modifies one symbol and the build failures show multiple symbols that conflict.  Do you know a method of making the .symbols file work in natty?
[17:17] <pitti> apw: evo says "room to be announced"
[17:24] <robert_ancell> doko, do you have any ideas about this symbol issue? ^^^
[17:25] <doko> robert_ancell: use the unmangled name?
[17:26] <robert_ancell> doko, how do I do that?  I tried the pkg-kde method but it didn't seem to work
[17:26] <doko> robert_ancell: dpkg-gensymbols(1)
[17:28]  * SpamapS just gives up and gets back to work on his ugly grey circa 1999 gnome desktop
[17:30] <robert_ancell> doko, thanks
[17:46] <mpt> YokoZar, hi, I'm doing the Wine-in-USC spec now. Is there a name for that standard you've come up with for finding+removing "managed" Wine applications?
[18:18] <ebroder> RAOF: by the way, having dug more deeply into the g-s-d code, it does set a mode when it launches, it just does so using completely different logic from when a monitor gets hotplugged. so the X patch would not be strictly necessary, but would likely make the transition a bit less flickery
[18:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: I tried 8 nfs mounts with the new portmap/statd and delays inserted in fsck/statd/portmap .. seems to work though I'm not sure why.
[18:22] <jussi> I remember Scott Remnant was working on android apps natively in ubuntu - does anyone know what happened to this? do they work, are the bits available somewhere?
[18:25] <RAOF> ebroder: The g-s-d modeset-on-startup is kinda a bug - seb patched it (in Maverick?) to check a gconf key to determine whether or not to actually do that.
[18:45] <robbiew> jussi: you might try asking rickspencer3
[18:46] <jussi> robbiew: ok, thanks!
[20:32] <SpamapS> slangasek: ok I figured it out. The reason it works ok is that mountall blocks *before* forking to run the mount command.
[20:36] <jhunt_> apw: just noticed that magic sysrq appears to be enabled in natty, although /proc/sys/kern/sysrq is 0... ?
[20:41] <hockebocke> are there any ubuntu gnome devs channel?
[20:42] <kklimonda> hockebocke: most of the team responsible for gnome on Ubuntu sits in the #ubuntu-desktop
[20:42] <ogra> Daviey, http://www.grawert.net:81/rooms/, http://fhem.de/fhem.html and the hw is http://www.elv.de/Sensoren/x.aspx/cid_74/detail_1/detail2_1738 and http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=28194&flv=1&bereich=&marke= .... sorry, all german
[20:43] <hockebocke> kklimonda: thanks!
[20:43] <ogra> Daviey, its operating on 868,35 MHz wireless
[20:46] <Daviey> ogra, thanks!
[20:48] <kamal> cjwatson, or other GRUB2 folk:  Various references claim that you need to hold the *left* shift key to get the GRUB2 menu to come up, but I find that the right shift key works just as well on the couple of machines I've tried.   Is there any truth to that "left shift only" requirement?
[20:48] <apw> jhunt_, define enabled?  which thing can you do which you expect to be disabled ??
[20:49] <cjwatson> kamal: no truth AFAIK
[20:49] <jhunt_> apw: use magic sysrq keys (ie alt+sysrq+u)
[20:49] <kamal> cjwatson: ok thanks
[20:49] <apw> jhunt_, doens't seem to work on mine ... sysrq h works when it is 1 and not when 0
[20:49] <apw> jhunt_, does h work for you?
[20:49] <cjwatson> kamal: the code explicitly checks both left and right shift
[20:49] <jhunt_> apw: The machine is sitting next to me if you're interested.
[20:49] <cjwatson> +  if (mods >= 0 &&
[20:49] <cjwatson> +      (mods & (GRUB_TERM_STATUS_LSHIFT | GRUB_TERM_STATUS_RSHIFT)) != 0)
[20:49] <cjwatson> +    return 1;
[20:50] <kamal> cjwatson: that's pretty convincing :-)
[20:50] <apw> cjwatson, heh thanks
[20:50] <apw> jhunt_, where are you
[20:51] <jhunt_> apw: alamo 1
[20:54] <achiang> speaking of grub, is it possible for a system that is already using grub1 to migrate to grub2?
[20:55] <cjwatson> yes, just install grub-pc
[20:56] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Upgrading%20to%20GRUB%202
[20:57] <achiang> thank you
[21:01] <achiang> does anyone know where software-properties stores its configuration information, such as frequency of updates, etc.? i'm poking around in there and in python-apt, but nothing is jumping out at me
[21:05] <achiang> ah, narrowing in
[21:06] <cjwatson> achiang: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ somewhere IIRC
[21:06]  * achiang finds a write_config() method in software-properties that does indeed write to /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
[21:06] <achiang> thanks cjwatson
[21:07] <achiang> oh, and it writes to /etc/cron.daily/apt, etc.
[21:07] <cjwatson> no, it just makes sure that's executable
[21:10] <bigon> is there a public list of blacklisted packages ?
[21:11] <micahg> bigon: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
[21:11] <bigon> thx
[21:11] <achiang> cjwatson: hm, yeah. actually, i wonder if i made any progress at all on this question
[21:15] <ScottK> robert_ancell: So far it's worked for me.  Not sure what's up.
[21:20] <apw> jhunt_, yep after reboot i have the same, and the bug is obvious ... bah
[21:20] <apw> thanks
[21:21] <jhunt_> apw: np
[21:50] <bigcx2> hey all
[21:50] <bigcx2> i have a question about cdbs, namely the autotools makefile
[21:51] <bigcx2> there's a flag called DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT_ENV
[21:51] <bigcx2> where the options passed into that can get pushed through to the ./configure script
[21:52] <bigcx2> is there any way to set the flag without hardcoding it in debian/rules?
[21:52] <bigcx2> aka passing it into dpkg-buildpackage, pbuilder, etc.
[21:52] <bigcx2> ?
[21:53] <cjwatson> you can set an environment variable on calling dpkg-buildpackage and that may be passed through if you're lucky
[21:53] <bigcx2> what if i'm unlucky :/
[21:54] <JackyAlcine> bigcx2: Good chances you aren't.
[21:54] <bigcx2> yea, i'm thinking i'm unlucky
[21:54] <bigcx2> i'm trying it right now, but i don't think it will work
[21:55] <bigcx2> i was also thinking of using dpatch, but i don't think that will work for patching debian/rules either...
[21:55] <cjwatson> no.  why not just change debian/rules?
[21:56] <cjwatson> also, note that if you're using debuild then you have to pass environment variables in a special way; see its manual page
[21:57] <bigcx2> the way the source of the package works is you have to pass a special environment variable to ./configure to set it up based on a given directory
[21:57] <bigcx2> i'd rather not have to have the package builder edit debian/rules if possible
[21:58] <bigcx2> looks like i'm unlucky
[22:01] <bigcx2> poop, i don't think there's any other way to get around it
[22:47] <sconklin> pitti: do you know what happened to the verification tags?
[22:48] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, re: LP #664115, is there a test case I can perform to verify that removing the 'udevadm settle' call doesn't break whatever it was originally added in for.
[22:48] <cody-somerville> ?
[22:48] <pitti> sconklin: I think so; most bugs have them, but I found those which don't: bug 669279 bug 493156
[22:49] <pitti> sconklin: the problem with those is that these bugs are filed against the wrong package
[22:49] <pitti> sconklin: the latter was fixed in linux-ec2, not linux
[22:50] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: not as such.  the original change was for either LVM or RAID installs, possibly both.
[22:50] <sconklin> it looks to me like none of the lucid ones have them. https://kernel-tools.canonical.com/srus.html
[22:51] <sconklin> all the ones with the triangle logo don't have the tags
[22:58] <pitti> sconklin: unsure; I just might have forgotten to run the script for lucid, doing now
[22:59] <bjf> pitti, if you look at the url sconklin pointed you too, you can see that it needs to be run for maverick as well
[23:00] <pitti> sconklin, bjf: sorry, LP just pulled the rug underneath me; need to run maverick later
[23:00] <bjf> pitti, ack
[23:00] <ogra> cjwatson, can you let ti-omap4-software-channel-0.1 into the archive (its in NEW) so i can close the WI
[23:03] <StevenK> I'd suggest that isn't now, due to LP being down
[23:05] <cjwatson> indeed
[23:07] <ogra> grmbl ... yeah, cant close WIs
[23:08] <ogra> (though the LP message is "will be down very soon")