[01:00] <arrrghhh> hey all.  can I route packets based on the service used?  I have OpenVPN being used, but certain services like apache and ssh I would prefer to not tunnel so I can still access those from the WAN
[01:29] <agu10^_> How can I disable all iptables rules? If i run iptables -F, when i reboot, the rules are working again! I just want to remove them forever! Or go back to initial iptables configuration.
[01:32] <Chris_W_> is there a command to see progress when copying/moving a file?
[01:48] <qman__> agu10^_, you need to find what script or software is setting them and disable it
[01:49] <agu10^_> qman__, how do i do that?
[01:50] <qman__> any software which is doing this is something that must have been installed or configured beyond the default
[01:50] <qman__> so get a list of everything you've done and determine which one is setting firewall rules
[01:50] <qman__> you may also be able to guess based on what the rules are
[01:50] <agu10^_> there is no way to find out exactly which one is doing this?
[01:51] <agu10^_> i know it was iredmail, but it installed many components
[01:51] <qman__> there is no deterministic way to determine it in reverse like that
[01:51] <agu10^_> something about a mail spam filter
[01:51] <agu10^_> i'd have to monitor which software is writing to my iptables config files
[01:51] <qman__> rules can be set with scripts, binary programs, or even libraries
[01:52] <agu10^_> yes. can i change the permissions for the config files so that
[01:52] <agu10^_> no malware can modify the files?
[01:53] <agu10^_> i just want to BLOCK the rules so that nobody modifies them
[01:53] <qman__> that is neither the correct way to address the problem nor is it possible in any reasonable fashion
[01:53] <qman__> the only way to do such a thing would be to recompile your kernel without netfilter support
[01:55] <agu10^_> wow that sucks
[01:55] <agu10^_> i think iptables is working properly now
[01:59] <agu10^_> how do i know if my script at /etc/rc.local was run or not? how do i see its output?
[01:59] <qman__> please don't crosspost
[02:00] <agu10^_> oh sorry
[02:00] <qman__> rc.local is executed at the end of the boot sequence and unless otherwise directed prints to the console
[02:00] <qman__> typically tty1
[02:01] <qman__> if rc.local does not exit 0, you won't get a login prompt
[02:03] <agu10^_> qman__, it exists 0
[02:03] <agu10^_> i think the problem i have is in rc.local i do: cd mypath; ./mycommand
[02:04] <agu10^_> and that is not working. am i not supposed to cd?
[02:04] <qman__> well, first of all, you should use an init script instead
[02:04] <qman__> but provided that you still want to use rc.local, you can't do it that way
[02:04] <agu10^_> i was suggested to use rc.local
[02:04] <qman__> it should only call the script and any arguments
[02:04] <agu10^_> is an init script better? and how do i do this
[02:05] <qman__> the script itself should cd to where it needs to be
[02:05] <agu10^_> oh okay
[02:05] <qman__> note also that even though rc.local is called at the end of the boot sequence, it may execute before all services start
[02:05] <qman__> because the way upstart is designed, it fires off many things at once
[02:05] <agu10^_> ohh okay
[02:06] <agu10^_> then what should i do? my script starts a node.js web server.
[02:06] <qman__> you should make an upstart script which depends on the network and other things you need
[02:06] <qman__> if you've got a decent understanding of shell programming, have a look here: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[02:07] <qman__> otherwise you may want to search for something to fit your purpose
[02:08] <agu10^_> there is no upstart found
[02:08] <qman__> you can also refer to existing upstart scripts as examples
[02:08] <agu10^_> no upstart command
[02:08] <qman__> no, there is not
[02:08] <agu10^_> then what is the standard way to make scripts run such as apache service?
[02:09] <qman__> upstart scripts are stored in /etc/init, and are called by using 'start [servicename]', 'stop [servicename]', etc
[02:09] <agu10^_> where does apache make it start itself?
[02:15] <agu10^_> "Once you've downloaded and unpacked upstart, you will need to configure the source tree, build and install it. The main question here is deciding whether or not you want to take the plunge and replace sysvinit immediately, or whether you want to test first." Seriously? I just want to start a server script.
[02:15] <qman__> again, please don't crosspost
[02:15] <qman__> you don't need to install upstart, it's the default init daemon in ubuntu and is already present
[02:15] <qman__> you need only to create an upstart init script for your application
[02:16] <qman__> which is probably going to be 10 lines, tops
[02:18] <agu10^_> qman__, ohh okay, thanks
[02:18] <qman__> you will want to skip down to the part about "writing jobs"
[02:19] <qman__> and refer to existing scripts in /etc/init as examples
[02:21] <agu10^_> qman__, thanks, it works i think
[02:29] <jestillore> hi everyone .. can anyone of you help me setting up pxe server in ubuntu lucid lynx ?
[02:30] <jestillore> hi everyone .. can anyone of you help me setting up pxe server in ubuntu lucid lynx ?
[02:54] <arrrghhh> hey all.  can I route packets based on the service used?  I have OpenVPN being used, but certain services like apache and ssh I would prefer to not tunnel so I can still access those from the WAN
[03:24] <dassouki> what's going on here http://pastie.org/7756113
[03:25] <qman__> you broke your sources
[03:26] <dassouki> this all happened as i was tryin to do a distroupgrade
[03:27] <qman__> did you use do-release-upgrade?
[03:27] <dassouki> nope
[03:27] <qman__> there's the problem
[03:27] <qman__> the correct and supported way to upgrade ubuntu releases is the do-release-upgrade tool
[03:29] <qman__> if you're lucky it hasn't done much of anything and you can still fix your sources
[03:44] <agu10^_> anybody familiar with amazon ec2?
[03:58] <agu10^_> Hello. I am running bind and it was working fine, but now I cannot dig my own domains even from the same computer. it times out. what could be wrong?
[04:40] <LargePrime> I have a few virtual web sites I am hosting for friends.  does anyone have good ideas on how to give them FTP-ish access to their sites and still keep my server safe?
[04:41] <LargePrime> The problem I am having is Root is the owner, group is www-data, and I dont have any more permisions too assign
[04:41] <LargePrime> I am looking at acls
[04:42] <LargePrime> i am not sure how editing sudo will work out
[04:42] <kevireilly> LargePrime: you can create actual users and then adjust your http entries to point to the document root of for instance /home/username/public_html
[04:42] <kevireilly> i want to say the parameter on adduser was -h to create a home directory, but i cant recall
[04:43] <LargePrime> ok.  sorry i forgot to say, how does that help me?
[04:43] <LargePrime> i forgot to say i am a total noob
[04:43] <kevireilly> because then you can have ftp users that only have access to their subset of files for their site(s)
[04:44] <LargePrime> and i think my fingers hate me
[04:44] <LargePrime> oh, so root wont have to own?
[04:44] <LargePrime> how is that different from makeing a folder in /var/www that they own?
[04:44] <kevireilly> I dont believe so. You can add a user and chown user.user files and test it before getting to deep in making that sort of change
[04:45] <kevireilly> im not sure you can make for instance their default login directory be /var/www/user but you probably can
[04:45] <kevireilly> it is just common to create a user with a home directory and give them a document root in there
[04:45] <LargePrime> IF i can is that not functional equilivant?
[04:46] <kevireilly> sure, that is just commonly the folder for the default site of the server in its entirety where a user's home directory is stuff particular to a user, which matches your goal it seems
[04:46] <kevireilly> another reason is you want to be able to allow users to have non-public files sometimes such as .htpasswd or other various uploads that shouldn't be available
[04:47] <kevireilly> in the /var/www/user scheme that wouldn't be possible
[04:47] <kevireilly> *other various files that shouldn't be available
[04:48] <LargePrime> Kevin that might work well
[04:48] <LargePrime> is there a guide or something?
[04:48] <LargePrime> or a search tearm
[04:48] <kevireilly> one of the methods is the adduser command
[04:48] <kevireilly> there was another one but i cant recall it
[04:49] <kevireilly> oh, useradd haha ;)
[04:49] <kevireilly> LargePrime: this one is decent enough http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/add-a-user-on-ubuntu-server/
[04:50] <kevireilly> oh.. adduser and useradd.. thats not confusing at all
[04:50] <LargePrime> I already added users
[04:50] <kevireilly> with a home directory?
[04:50] <kevireilly> ls /home
[04:50] <LargePrime> and i game them ownership of /var/www/userdomain
[04:50] <LargePrime> but this is giving them headaches
[04:51] <LargePrime> then i make them owners of the dirs
[04:51] <LargePrime> also headaches
[04:52] <LargePrime> I finaly had to do 777 to make the headaches go away
[04:52] <kevireilly> that is not a good idea
[04:52] <LargePrime> i think i know it is not a good idea.  so i come here to say " this not good , right?"
[04:53] <LargePrime> but if i can move them to /home
[04:53] <LargePrime> and chroot or chjail them
[04:53] <LargePrime> if that is what that is called
[04:54] <kevireilly> ftp is relatively safe outside of what can potentially be uploaded with it, ssh is where it can get sticky
[04:54] <kevireilly> do you have home directories for each user?
[04:55] <LargePrime> so i should just make FTP users
[04:55] <LargePrime> nope
[04:55] <LargePrime> currently I am using ssh keya
[04:55] <kevireilly> ah i see, and then you have them use sftp?
[04:55] <LargePrime> ya
[04:56] <LargePrime> mostly winscp
[04:56] <kevireilly> they essentially have ssh access though
[04:56] <LargePrime> yes
[04:56]  * LargePrime is nervouse
[04:56] <LargePrime> so i was reading about jailing them
[04:57] <LargePrime> to the hom dir
[04:57] <kevireilly> create a test user maybe real quick, like you created the others without a home directory
[04:57] <LargePrime> but i did not know if sites available will reroute to hom dirs
[04:57] <kevireilly> and then try -- usermod -d /home/username username
[04:57] <kevireilly> yeah im pretty sure it will
[04:58] <ScottK> Don't use ftp.  Use sftp or scp instead.  http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie
[04:58] <kevireilly> ScottK: can use sftp and not allow ssh access at the same time?
[04:59] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:59] <LargePrime> ya you can
[04:59] <kevireilly> sahweet
[04:59] <LargePrime> there is a settng in .... something
[05:00] <LargePrime> so may plan was to distribute private keys
[05:00] <LargePrime> but sftp is screwing with me
[05:00] <LargePrime> when it comes to people being able to do stuff on thier servers
[05:02] <LargePrime> which is prolly me trying to keep root as owner
[06:57] <Joel_re> hey, I'm unable to figure this out
[06:57] <Joel_re> postgresql-9.1 installs and sets up the db with the SQL_ASCII encoding
[06:57] <Joel_re> does anyone know what can fix this
[07:03] <sazawal> I have a python script which authenticates me and connects to the internet. When I press Ctrl-C it logs me off successfully. I want to end this script (log off) automatically when I shut down/reboot my computer. How can I do it?
[07:14] <rbasak> sazawal: you could add a script to /etc/rc0.d called S01killsazawalsscript which finds and sends your Python script a SIGINT if I understand your question correctly.
[07:14] <rbasak> (pressing Ctrl-C is the equivalent of sending SIGINT to the process)
[07:14] <rbasak> See kill, signal(7), pkill, killall
[07:17] <sazawal> rbasak, yes that is what I need to do. Sending an interrupt signal to the python script would do it. Let me see the file /etc/rc0.d for a minute
[07:29] <rbasak> sazawal: note that if you're running the script in a terminal window in a graphical login session, then the session might kill the terminal window which may kill the Python script with a TERM first, so I'm not sure it'll work in all cases.
[07:33] <sazawal> rbasak, yes I am running it in terminal window. Let me check if it works
[07:35] <sazawal> rbasak, great its working. I used kill -SIGINT <PID>
[07:36] <sazawal> now I must write a script in /etc/rc0.d. So all the scripts in this directory are executed when system is shutdown/rebooted?
[07:37] <rbasak> All the Sxx scripts, in order.
[07:37] <rbasak> But that might happen after your terminal window is killed by your graphical session exiting.  I am using Guake terminal by the way.
[08:28] <agu10^^> How do I make my second IP address in linux respond to ping?
[08:28] <Joel_re> ?
[08:28] <Joel_re> ping it?
[08:33] <agu10^^> Joel_re, it doesn't answer
[08:34] <Joel_re> traceroute?
[08:34] <Joel_re> if its in the same broadcast domain arping
[08:35] <agu10^^> how do i set up eth1 after i already have eth0 ?
[08:36] <jamespage> agu10^^, you need to add an entry into /etc/network/interfaces
[08:38] <agu10^^> jamespage, should i add: auto eth1, iface eth1 inet dhcp ?
[08:38] <agu10^^> i already have that for eth0
[08:39] <jamespage> agu10^^, if you have dhcp running on the network; then yes that should work
[08:40] <jamespage> agu10^^, this is helpful - https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/network-configuration.html#ip-addressing
[08:53] <sazawal> rbasak, The killscript is working but when I shut down the system, it doesn't. I think the guake terminal is killed before the python script. What to do now?
[09:03] <Fudge> hi does anyone know how to get a root prompt up live on an ubuntu server image please?
[09:04] <riz0n> I have Ubuntu Server with bind DNS. From my understanding, any time the "db" files for a zone are updated, bind9 has to be restarted. Is this completely neccessary? Is there an easier way to have bind9 automatically reload database files?
[09:16] <rbasak> sazawal: try #ubuntu. Not sure how much help you're going to get here as this is a server channel.
[09:17] <rbasak> riz0n: bind doesn't need to be restarted; it just has to be told to reload.
[09:18] <sazawal> rbasak, ok I will ask the question in #ubuntu channel. Thank you.
[09:18] <riz0n> rbasak: so let's say I have "john" on my host who has a domain.. john has created domain.com.db in his home directory and likewise I have included it in the bind configuration files. I do not want john to have sudo access to my host... what would be the appropriate way for john to tell bind to reload
[09:20] <rbasak> riz0n: you could give john access to run sudo to reload bind ONLY. But I don't think it's safe to give users access to write their own zone files at will.
[09:21] <riz0n> I trust him with his zone, in fact I created the zone file from a template and got it working for him. but his IP may change and he needs to be able to update it in the zone file accordingly so that he doesn't call me to do it.
[09:21] <riz0n> so what would i need to do to set up john to be able to reload bind in sudo only
[09:21] <rbasak> I don't recall. See the sudoers manpage - I think it has some examples at the bottom
[09:24] <riz0n> Thanks, as some point maybe john can learn enough linux where I can trust him with full sudo access to my host (as I've known john for many years) but for now he just needs to be able to reload bind.. I'll check it out! Thanks for the info.
[09:25] <rbasak> riz0n: security concerns are things like, for example, what if john includes "$INCLUDE /etc/shadow" in his zone file? Then he might be able to read out your root password over DNS, for example. Unlikely because I assume bind doesn't run as root and /etc/shadow won't be valid zone file syntax, but hopefully you can see the kind of area where security holes might exist. It isn't realistically possible to consider every single combination, so the only r
[09:26] <riz0n> john knows I would be at his house with a baseball bat to give him a severe beating since he lives across town
[09:26] <riz0n> What would be a better way of john being able to manage his dns records on my server?
[09:27] <rbasak> riz0n: ah - but if you trust john, then you're OK. Just understand what you're potentially giving him access to. Also, consider that if his access is compromised in some way, then others could use the exploit as a crack to open wider. I've seen that kind of thing happen before - an innocent person had more access that he needed, and that was exploited.
[09:28] <riz0n> Absolutely. john has password which meets complexity requirements.
[09:29] <riz0n> john just has no dns for his domain, and likewise i am assisting him with setting it up. I am hoping its a relationship where riz0n can get some "backup dns" off john's server for the favor :)
[09:29] <rbasak> riz0n: if it's just one IP address, then have John store that in a file in some common place that the bind user can read. Then write a script that checks that opens the file, checks that the opened file is one that john owns and is a regular file, and parse out the IP, permitting only the exact form of an IP, and writes out his zone file from a template with that IP replaced, and then reloads bind. Then give john access to sudo run that script as the
[09:30] <rbasak> That's a reasonably secure way to do it. But of course security depends on writing that script securely.
[09:30] <rbasak> (and that in itself is a risk; of course running a server is a risk. It's wherever you consider the appropriate trade-off to be)
[09:30] <riz0n> yeah, and taking the time to write the actual script too..
[09:31] <riz0n> I have no doubts that john would really do anything to compromise the host, being that it really doesn't host anything of any value (it is really more for educational use anyways)
[09:33] <riz0n> but i do understand the security concerns.. i have fingered users i created and discovered they were SSH'ing in ... come to find out they have passwords like "test123" or something simple. The compromised accounts were dealt with accordingly, mostly by deletion. So all passwords must now meet complexity requirements to exist on this host from now on :)
[09:33] <rbasak> If possible, I'd go further and require key only authentication
[09:33] <rbasak> I understand that's not always possible. But even Windows clients can use keys.
[09:34] <riz0n> Well I use PuTTY
[09:34] <riz0n> And WinSCP.. that's the only ways I manage the server
[09:34] <rbasak> PuTTY does support it. There's Pageant (?) that it integrates with.
[09:35] <riz0n> I may have to check into that. It is something I have thought of.. and store said key in a safe place.
[09:35] <riz0n> Push comes to shove I always have the console I can login to. :)
[09:35] <rbasak> Keys are randomly generated, so they can't really be guessed (if they're big enough). Only compromised. That's still a big step.
[09:35] <rbasak> I'm looking forward to *proper* 2-factor auth. Upstream openssh have it in their repo. Not sure if they've released it yet.
[09:37] <riz0n> This Linux server has really been a great learning tool. Especially learning how to maintain apache, write php, and manage a mysql database.. it has been online since 8.04 in 2008 :)
[09:37]  * rbasak should retire his 8.04 server at some point :-/
[09:37] <riz0n> I have kept it up to date :)
[09:37] <riz0n> I am running latest LTS
[09:38] <riz0n> but yes it really needs retiring
[09:38] <riz0n> I've replaced the actual "server" a couple of times with upgraded hardware but kept the same disk... same disk running 24/7 for 5 years... yep time for a replacement
[09:39] <riz0n> i'm thinking... AMD 8-core/8-GB w/ 3 500GB SATA RAID5... I get Microsoft R2 through Software Alliance. I really want to dive into virtualizing this Linux server for long-term use
[09:41] <riz0n> Let me clarify.. Windows 2008 Datacenter R2
[09:41] <riz0n> Guess you can say that's one benefit of going to college. :)
[09:41] <mardraum> hyper v is free, man
[09:42] <riz0n> Yeah I know hyperv is free, but there are other plans in place for the R2... want to be able to run both virtually, along with Windows 7 in a virtual machine as a "cloud computer" ... all under one roof
[09:43] <riz0n> We use it in class, and the more I can do / accomplish at home from a "lab component" side of things.. the less I have to travel to campus to use their crap computers :)
[09:45] <riz0n> plus 'john' and i are discussing setting up exact configurations, with a VPN tunnel connecting servers together, to allow our web servers to have immediate replication... to test disaster recovery scenarios
[09:47] <riz0n> but it will be a while before we can do the tunnels and stuff... we are waiting for the telco/cable provider to finish their upgrades so we can get Fiber
[09:55] <riz0n> we also have 'jack' in denver... who will also upgrade to the necessary telco line when appropriate, who will also be in on this project.. the plan is to have a data contingency/disaster recovery plan in place where all the servers are replicating all data (so if john updates a file on his web site in his home folder, it automatically goes everywhere) or if jack gets email.. all servers
[09:55] <riz0n> have a copy.. The plan is to be able to simulate an earthquake scenario (or some other major disaster) which would render Server A inoperable, but all other servers are online and can pick up the load. Conceptually it sounds good on paper and we can sit and read about it in class all day long... but unless we can implement it and have it working, concepts are useless.
[09:57] <riz0n> The plan is to have servers purchased at end of September, operational mid-october, ready to demonstrate by end of semester at the end of November. But till then, john and jack have a lot of linux learning to do before they play russian roulette with riz0n's server :P
[10:05] <riz0n> We will be simulating a corporation in production environment, where there will be an Intranet site, on both Windows 2008 and Ubuntu respectively, both interfacing with MS-SQL and MySQL. We also will learn about Exchange, and mail sevices in Linux (which I am already familiar with).. Need to be able to do Remote Desktop Services and allow the "production computers" to run software from
[10:05] <riz0n> the R2 server, mainly Outlook. I think we can get most the software we need to do this project through the Software Alliance and open-source. But we also will be using the resources to serve our personal needs, like hosting personal web pages and each of us having a virtualized Windows 7 desktop environment we can work from. Right now we are just waiting on the financial grants to go in
[10:05] <riz0n> the bank. We're all excited about this project. At least I know I am! I just wish I had the funding to get a head start on having my end of things ready.
[12:09] <Daviey> jamespage: Hey, I think we want to keep blueprint assignees as ~ubuntu-server, but set the Drafter as the person on point for the blueprint.. no?
[12:11] <jamespage> Daviey, probably  :-)
[12:14] <Daviey> jamespage: We used the assignee field as way of tracking all of them previously.
[12:48] <sander^work> Do anyone know common rasons  lsyncd have delays when transfering files?
[12:49] <sander^work> I read default sync time is 15 seconds, but its taking way longer than that.
[13:04] <jamespage> Daviey, I re-jigged that blueprint in terms of ownership
[13:30] <zul> jamespage/yolanda: https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/swift/saucy-fix/+merge/162352
[13:39] <jamespage> zul, lgtm
[13:44] <zul> jamespage:  thanks
[14:24] <resno> can someone tell me running ubuntu server 7.10 is bad. bad enough i should build a new server in its place. i just need to hear someone agree with my thoughts.
[14:26] <genii-around> resno: It's past End-Of-Life and not even a Long Term Support version.
[14:27] <resno> genii-around: my thoughts exactly. it was just handed to me to add to my server, and i shriked when i saw it
[14:27] <jacobw> It's pretty gutsy to still be running 7.10 on a server
[14:27] <resno> gutsy is putting it lightly
[14:27] <resno> imo
[14:27] <resno> i was just curious if i was the crazy one
[14:27] <jacobw> See what I did there?
[14:27] <genii-around> jacobw: You punster you.
[14:28] <jacobw> :)
[14:29] <resno> heh
[14:29] <arrrghhh> resno, upgrading that box will not be easy.
[14:29] <arrrghhh> i would definitely do a clean install
[14:30] <resno> im only doing a clean install
[14:30] <resno> the upgrade path would be not worth the hassle
[14:30] <arrrghhh> good :)
[14:31] <arrrghhh> no.  and it would probably break terribly.
[14:31] <resno> i just want people to tell me, i am a sane person
[14:31] <resno> for wanting to blast it away
[14:32] <genii-around> !badident > trapni
[14:32] <arrrghhh> nice there's a quick message for that haha
[14:33] <arrrghhh> so anyone around can help with my openvpn issue?  I run openvpn as a client on my server, so I have eth0 and tun0.  Some services, like apache or ssh I would rather not tunnel... Now I assume I will need to do some trickery with route and iptables, but can someone poke me in the right direction?
[14:37] <genii-around> trapni: Apologies, I sent the wrong factoid.
[14:37] <genii-around> !doublejoin
[14:38] <genii-around> The one above was the intended.
[14:39] <jacobw> arrrghhh: route only the network the VPN provides through the tunnel
[14:40] <arrrghhh> jacobw, yes, I would like to know how to achieve this :)
[14:41] <arrrghhh> I'd like to route based on service or port, but I'm not sure this is possible
[14:44] <Nafallo> arrrghhh: not without a bunch of fiddling on the console ;-)
[14:44] <Nafallo> nothing is impossible :-)
[14:44] <jacobw> arrrghhh: ip r add default via NOTVPNGATEWAY dev eth0; ip r add <IP_ADDRESS>/24 dev tap0
[14:49] <jacobw> arrrghhh: Where <IP_ADDRESS>/24 is the network the VPN provides
[14:51] <arrrghhh> jacobw, how does this enable me to route based on port/service tho?  Sorry, I'm not sure what to do with your commands.
[14:51] <jacobw> arrrghhh: You can't route based on UDP/TCP port because routing is a function of IP, but you can NAT based on port and route from your NAT'd addresses differently to your not NAT'd addresses
[14:51] <arrrghhh> ah, by marking packets?
[14:52] <arrrghhh> I think I was reading about this, I probably need to do some more... still over my head
[14:53] <jacobw> arrrghhh: You don't need to MARK, you can handle it all with NAT, but, you could MARK and it might make your rules more readable.
[14:55] <arrrghhh> hm.  do you have some stuff you suggest I read to learn more?
[15:03] <jacobw> arrrghhh: http://www.karlrupp.net/en/computer/nat_tutorial
[15:04] <arrrghhh> sweet, thank you!
[15:29] <Youssefk> Hello, does anyone of you guys know if the reboot problem in juju has been fixed or not?
[15:30] <rbasak> Youssefk: I'm not sure what you're referring to. But if you can't get an answer here, try #juju.
[15:32] <Youssefk> When you set up an environment using juju, for example wordpress and mysql, when you reboot your system the environment refuses to start again and you have to do everything again
[15:32] <Youssefk> okay I'm gonna check #juju
[15:52] <Heavenstorm> I am using wpa_supplicant to establish a wireless connection on bootup. After it boots up it won't connect but all I have to do is enter dhclient wlan0 and it works. Does anyone know how to fix that?
[15:52] <Heavenstorm> (entering into the command line)
[15:53] <GrueMaster> Heavenstorm: You can probably add a line in /etc/network/interfaces to set wlan0 to auto dhcp.
[15:54] <hallyn> how are you starting wpasupplciant?  with a pre-up line in interfaces(5), or an upstart job?
[15:54] <Heavenstorm> I have done that. I changed it to static to see if that would fix it.
[15:54] <Heavenstorm> I have a pre-up line script
[15:55] <Heavenstorm> So I've tried it both ways
[15:56] <hallyn> hm.  dunno.  (i do it by hand, ahven't tried with interfaces(5))
[15:57] <hallyn> might pastebin your interfaces file, someone might see something
[15:58] <kantlivelong> is there a way i can upgrade 10.04 to 12.04?
[15:58] <Heavenstorm> Thanks for your input on this. I'm not sure what interfaces(5) is. Is that the same thing as the /etc/network/interfaces file?
[15:59] <sarnold> kantlivelong: look into do-release-upgrade(8)
[15:59] <Heavenstorm> (Or the thing that parses the file)
[15:59] <Heavenstorm> ?
[15:59] <GrueMaster> Heavenstorm: That is the man page for interfaces.  "man interfaces".  Also, google found http://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
[15:59] <kantlivelong> sarnold: oh haha i just noticed the LTS option durr
[15:59] <GrueMaster> Might help
[16:00] <markthomas> kantlivelong: make a good backup first :)  If you use LVM, do an LVM snapshot.
[16:00] <Heavenstorm> Okay thanks again
[16:00] <kantlivelong> markthomas: yup :)
[16:02] <Heavenstorm> Here's a question (being new to linux) I see things like ifup(8), the command "ifup" usually isn't entered with the "(8)". What does that number mean?
[16:02] <sarnold> Heavenstorm: that tells you which manual section contains documentation for that command or file
[16:03] <sarnold> Heavenstorm: man man describes the different sections; 1 for user commands, 8 for admin commands, 2 for system calls, 3 for library calls..
[16:04] <Heavenstorm> Thanks for pointing that out. I'm reading man man now
[16:04] <sarnold> Heavenstorm: you can get different commands or syscalls; check out the difference between 'man 1 reboot' and 'man 2 reboot'
[16:04] <sarnold> err, that'd be man 8 reboot and man 2 reboot   :)
[16:06] <Heavenstorm> I get it now
[16:29] <jamespage> zul, https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/cinder/havana-pep8-deps/+merge/162309
[16:30] <zul> jamespage:  i dont think we need the -v either
[16:32] <jamespage> zul, OK - fixing that now
[16:32] <zul> cool
[16:37] <Heavenstorm> If I have set my interface (wlan0) to static why would dhclient have any effect on it?
[16:38] <jamespage> zul: for some reason alot of git poll processed got stacked in the lab - I killed them and it freed stuff up
[16:38] <zul> jamespage:  cool
[16:40] <psivaa> jamespage: hallyn: The lxc tests on saucy have http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5629624/ in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/saucy-server-amd64-smoke-lxc/4/
[16:40] <Heavenstorm> Thank you everyone for your help. It's still mysterious but I have some new ideas now.
[16:40] <psivaa> jamespage: hallyn: whenever you have time to look at ^
[16:41] <zul> jamespage:  +1
[17:08] <lwizardl> I have a problem with comcast blocking a smtp server on port 25 on my service. Would swapping the Arris modem/router they gave me with my own bought modem stop that block? since I was reading the Arris modem allows them to block ports on the network
[17:10] <sarnold> lwizardl: no, that does not help.
[17:13] <patdk-wk> I have comcast, and they don't block port 25
[17:13] <patdk-wk> the question is, did you sign up for a business class service?
[17:14] <lwizardl> patdk-lap: not yet I still have to wait a few months for my current bs service to expire. then I can get it as business class
[17:15] <hallyn> psivaa: looking
[17:21] <hallyn> psivaa: oh, so that's not an error in the tests, but the bzr package importer...  i'll need to resolve manually
[17:21] <psivaa> hallyn: ack, thank you
[17:22] <GrueMaster> Has anyone figured out why 12.04.2 server (amd64) boots to tty7 instead of tty1 by default?
[17:26] <arrrghhh> GrueMaster, I always ssh to the box... never really noticed.
[17:28] <parallel21> GreuMaster: from what I understand 1 through 6 is reserved to text mode.
[17:29] <parallel21> GrueMaster: but this look interesting… https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/695658
[17:37] <GrueMaster> parallel21: This doesn't happen in 12.04, but does after updating to 12.04.2 (or installing 12.04.2 from scratch), suggesting a regression.
[17:38] <GrueMaster> I really don't have time to be parsing and debugging Ubuntu bugs like this (not that it mattered when that was my job).
[17:50] <Arrick> hey all, I am having issues getting vsftpd to allow users to connect (Internal web site) so that they can upload/download data from our 12.04 server... I'm reading the documentaiton here: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html#vsftpd-ftp-server-installation however, I cant connect to it for some reason.
[17:53] <noxs> Servicetag
[17:54] <Arrick> huh?
[17:54] <Arrick> IdleOne, good afternoon.
[18:02] <hallyn> psivaa: I think it should be fixed, please re-try the test when you get a chance
[19:13] <psivaa> hallyn: the lxc tests have now passed, thanks
[19:13] <hallyn> psivaa: awesome
[19:14] <psivaa> :)
[19:34] <adam_g> Daviey, any chance you could take a look at the python-glanceclient package in queue for raring-proposed ?
[19:39] <Daviey> adam_g: Potentially
[19:39] <adam_g> Daviey, nothing major, just a cherry-picked patch
[19:42] <Daviey> adam_g: Are you wanting to upload it to the CA aswell?
[19:42] <adam_g> Daviey, after its been SRU'd to raring, yes
[19:47] <phunyguy> quick question.... I have a router that is ubuntu server, and there are several subnets attached that can all talk to each other freely.  Is there any (easy) way to get it to bounce multicast packets between networks? It's not a large network, so I am not worried about broadcast traffic becoming an issue.  I have installed pimd, but Others say it "just works", however I cannot get it to work.  Any ideas?
[19:47] <phunyguy> I also read something about mangling the broadcast packets to have a ttl of +1
[19:47] <phunyguy> which I did, no luck.
[19:58] <adam_g> Daviey, thanks
[22:15] <Heavenstorm> I am using ubuntu 12.10LTS and have been able to get my wireless interface up to the point that all I have to do is type in "dhclient" when it's booted. But how can I make it so it works without having to do that?
[22:17] <sarnold> Heavenstorm: 12.04 LTS? Or 12.10? those are different things..
[22:17] <Hitiek> my /boot is full. I'm trying to apt-get remove some of the old linux-image-* packages, but I can't because apt-get complains with "linux-image-server : Depends: linux-image-3.2.0-40-generic but it is not going to be installed". Anyone have a suggestion how I get around this?
[22:18] <Heavenstorm> You're right I'm using 12.04.2 LTS
[22:20] <Heavenstorm> I've been working on this issue for weeks. So far I'm using wpa supplicant and calling it from within the interfaces config
[22:24] <sarnold> Hitiek: you could delete a file or two by hand.. just make sure you remove files you intend to remove via apt shortly
[22:24] <Heavenstorm> It is called from a pre-up command and calls the wpa config file. The device is associated and the configuration data is there to give it a static ip.
[22:25] <Heavenstorm> Honestly I don't understand why I need to run dhclient for that reason
[22:26] <Heavenstorm> Do I need to somehow run dhclient during the bootup sequence or is there some obvious step I could be missing?
[22:31] <genii-around> Heavenstorm: Maybe you need a post-up command calling the dhclient
[22:32] <Heavenstorm> Problem with that is ifup won't work until dhclient is running. Will that affect it?
[22:33] <Heavenstorm> I guess it won't hurt to try
[22:34] <Heavenstorm> Right now I just tried it with a new pre-up command.
[22:34] <Heavenstorm> It worked!
[22:34] <Heavenstorm> But the ip address isn't want I set it to.
[22:37] <Heavenstorm> I will change the order of the config file to declare it after the pre and post-ups and see what happens
[22:41] <Heavenstorm> Do you know how to make it stop waiting for the network configuration? It always seems to time out and makes bootup a major drag.
[22:42] <sarnold> Heavenstorm: are you confident you ca'nt just poke a hole in your dhcp for a static ip for your server? servers on dhcp are .. odd.
[22:43] <Heavenstorm> I'm trying to make it a static ip. For whatever reason it won't work unless I run dhclient. It is the wireless side though and it goes to a wireless in-home router connected to the Internet.
[22:43] <riz0n> I have my DD-WRT set to give my server a "static IP" through DHCP... works beautifully.
[22:44] <Heavenstorm> The wired part is going to another router that will be an access point for my brother's kids with a transparent proxy used for a content filter and monitoring device.
[22:44] <Heavenstorm> At least that is my plans for it. Now I'm just trying to get internet into it
[22:45] <Heavenstorm> I just found out that the order in which things are declared in the config file seems to matter. It's all hosed now cause I switched things up.   It is easier.
[22:46] <Heavenstorm> Yes, vim, if I only had the patience to learn it.
[22:47] <GrueMaster> riz0n: In what universe is editing linux/unix config files on a Windows system easier?
[22:47] <riz0n> well when your linux system has no keyboard, mouse, or monitor attached, they got to be edited somehow :)
[22:48] <Heavenstorm> Good point but honestly I'd rather learn vim!
[22:48] <GrueMaster> ssh->vim
[22:48] <patdk-lap> rsh! :)
[22:49] <sarnold> patdk-lap :)
[22:49] <patdk-lap> oh wait, we are talking about cat
[22:49] <patdk-lap> I'm glad I got to toss the server that *required* rsh access last year
[22:49] <sarnold> patdk-lap: holy cow
[22:50] <sarnold> patdk-lap: it's been over a decade since I've used a system that even supported rsh.. maybe even 15?
[22:50] <patdk-lap> I had never used rsh ever, till that system
[22:51] <patdk-lap> I had used telnet and ssh, but never before rsh
[22:51] <patdk-lap> I did restrict rsh access to a single ip, but needed to use it to setup user quotas
[22:54] <Heavenstorm> Later all I think I'm onto something. Thanks for your input.


[00:28]  * kfogel is away: Smithwicks w/ Omar
[00:40] <lifeless> Noldorin: hi
[00:40] <lifeless> Noldorin: I put some other ideas in the bug
[01:17] <poolie> emmajane: thanks for the nice update
[01:17] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[01:18] <spiv> lifeless: pong
[01:18] <lifeless> I have an odd failure
[01:19] <lifeless> which may collide with your patch
[01:19] <lifeless> branch(Pdb) wt_a.branch
[01:19] <lifeless> RemoteBranch(bzr-v2://<IP_ADDRESS>:59801/extra/a/)
[01:19] <lifeless> (Pdb) wt_a.branch
[01:19] <lifeless> RemoteBranch(bzr-v2://<IP_ADDRESS>:59801/extra/a/)
[01:20] <lifeless> -> branch_b = wt_a.branch.bzrdir.sprout('b', revision_id='1').open_branch()
[01:20] <lifeless> (Pdb) branch_b
[01:20] <lifeless> BzrBranch7('file:///tmp/testbzr-Hs3ARm.tmp/bzrlib.tests.per_branch.test_branch.TestBranch.test_clone_branch_parent%28RemoteBranchFormat-v2%29/work/b/')
[01:20] <lifeless> (Pdb) branch_b.repository.chk_bytes.keys()
[01:20] <lifeless> set([])
[01:20] <lifeless> wt_a.branch.repository is a 2a repo
[01:21] <poolie> hi lifeless, spiv
[01:25] <sque> hello! I am running ubuntu 8.04.3 server with bzr ppa and installed loggerhead
[01:25] <sque> when I try to view file contents from the webbrowser I get an exception from loggerhead
[01:25] <sque> An unexpected error occurred whileproccesing the request:
[01:25] <sque> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'ProgressBarStack'
[01:26] <sque> What is the problem?
[01:26] <lifeless> sque: you either need a newer loggerhead or an older bzr.
[01:26] <spiv> lifeless: perhaps!  I'm not sure.
[01:26] <lifeless> spiv: can I call?
[01:26] <spiv> Sure.
[01:27] <sque> ii  bzr                                     1.17-1~bazaar1~hardy1                   easy to use distributed version control system
[01:27] <sque> ii  loggerhead                              1.10-1                                  Web viewer for Bazaar
[01:27] <sque> those are the version that are currently installed and they both come from this official ppa https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa
[01:28] <sque> you mean that they are not compatible?
[01:32] <spiv> Yes; that version of Loggerhead is too old to work that with version of Bazaar.
[01:33] <lifeless> spiv: found it I think:
[01:33] <lifeless> 1759 ->         source = repo._get_source(self.to_format)
[01:33] <lifeless> 1760            if isinstance(source, RemoteStreamSource):
[01:33] <lifeless> 1761                return repository.StreamSource.get_stream(source, search)
[01:33] <lifeless> 1762            return source.get_stream(search)
[01:34] <lifeless> spiv: have you changed that?
[01:42] <spiv> I don't think so, let me check.
[01:42] <lifeless> spiv: I've put up a merge proposal
[01:43] <spiv> No, I didn't change that.  It does seem like an obvious problem, though!
[01:55] <emmajane> poolie, you're welcome for the update. :)
[01:57] <sque> beuno: ping
[02:00] <igc> morning all
[02:34] <mozmck> on ubuntu 9.04, I installed the latest bzr-gtk from source as described on the website.  but when I try to run olive-gtk is says "ImportError: No module named gtk.ui"
[02:34] <mozmck> am I missing something?
[02:43] <AfC> mozmck: a good technique in these cases is to install a -dev package of what you are trying to build first, to make sure you have all the dependencies
[02:46] <mozmck> I don't see a -dev package for bzr-gtk.  I have the bzr ppa in my repositories list.
[03:00] <meoblast001> is it hard to set up a bazaar server?
[03:00] <meoblast001> i'm thinking about doing it on my server for backup of my source files
[03:12] <igorgue> hi, to install a dependency I use: pip install -e 'bzr+http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~txamqpteam/txamqp/trunk/#egg=txamqp'
[03:12] <igorgue> do you know how to add that to my setup.py?
[05:46] <_habnabit> So, I'm not clear exactly what a 'branch' is or how branches can be subdivided. I'm trying to migrate from svn to bzr, and I've created a repository with 'bzr svn-import'. I made a new repository to work in, and I tried to make a branch with just one project from the svn repository, but I get an error saying that its directory is not a branch. I can only make a new branch from the entire svn trunk.
[05:47] <_habnabit> Should each separate project have its own branch?
[05:52] <spm> _habnabit: i hit something similar when I first migrated. this may help: http://www.stedee.id.au/2008/11-06/manually_migrating_subversion_repository_launchpadbzr ??
[05:53] <spm> _habnabit: the key part of that for you would be the: svn2bzr.py --scheme=trunk --exclude=branches --exclude=tags <== to only get what you want
[05:54] <_habnabit> Well, what's the difference between using svn2bzr and bzr-svn? Aside from that it seems like it's more one-way.
[05:54] <_habnabit> I'm not sure if it would solve the issue of trying to split my svn trunk into separate bzr branches.
[05:55] <spm> I tried bzr-svn and it didn't work well for me - then. svn2bzr did. ymmv.
[05:55] <bob2> branches in bzr and svn are pretty similar in concept, but with the proviso that in bzr you can't check out arbitrary dirs like you can in svn
[05:56] <_habnabit> So with bzr, I would want separate branches for each project.
[05:56] <bob2> well, separate branch for each branch of each project
[05:56] <lifeless> _habnabit: a branch is one line of development for a project
[05:56] <_habnabit> Right.
[05:56] <lifeless> _habnabit: and its not subdividable to subdirectories
[05:56] <_habnabit> Okay.
[05:57] <_habnabit> How do I deal with this, then? They are in subdirectories at the moment.
[05:57] <_habnabit> It looks like svn2bzr might help, hm.
[06:00] <bob2> bzr-svn import lets you explain how the svn repository is layed out, too
[06:24] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[06:32] <spiv> lifeless: pon
[06:32] <spiv> pong, even.
[06:32] <lifeless> did you do anything along the lines of getting xml inventories from CHK repos?
[06:33] <lifeless> turns out we have to implement it
[06:33] <spiv> No, but I believe John did for the bundle code.
[06:33] <spiv> IMBW.
[06:33] <lifeless> ah yes, thats what was tickling my memory
[06:58] <vila> hi all
[07:02] <lifeless> EODing
[07:15] <poolie> hey vila
[07:15] <vila> hi poolie
[07:16] <poolie> vila, did you mention the existence of the build farm yet?
[07:16] <poolie> it might be god
[07:16] <poolie> good*
[07:16] <poolie> liw just asked about whether we had one
[07:16] <vila> ok,
[07:17] <vila> Hey guys, we have a build farm running the test suite on a couple of slaves !
[07:17] <poolie> :)
[07:18] <vila> well, the truth is karmic fails and the windows slave setup is broken :-/
[07:22] <vila> poolie: more seriously, what do you have in mind ? An announce on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[07:23] <poolie> yes :)
[07:23] <poolie> that's no good about karmic
[07:23] <poolie> liw mentioned that too
[07:23] <vila> Did you read the discussion with jam about not allowing forcing builds from the public server ? Do you agree with my proposal ?
[07:23] <poolie> you should file a bug?
[07:23] <poolie> i did read it
[07:23] <poolie> um
[07:24] <vila> the karmic failures may be minor, I just haven't dig them yet
[07:28] <vila> jelmer: ping, BB is down, care to review my patch for bug #403340 anyway ?
[07:29] <vila> cough bug #403430
[08:54]  * igc dinner
[09:01] <poolie> hm
[09:04] <lifeless> poolie: how was the conference?
[09:04] <poolie> hasn't happened yet
[09:04] <lifeless> ah
[09:04] <poolie> it's on the weekend
[09:05] <poolie> am just working from here, mostly on trying to get my presentation to feel more coherent
[09:05] <lifeless> laserpres!
[09:05] <poolie> the short story is
[09:06] <poolie> laserpres?
[09:06] <poolie> anyhow the short story is: open source development is fun and fulfilling,
[09:06] <poolie> being done entirely over the net it's very much mediated by and shaped by the tools
[09:07] <poolie> so the point of our work is to make tools that fit how people work and help them work better
[09:08] <poolie> specifically: it's pretty amazing when people translate your software or documentation into languages you can't speak yourself
[09:12] <lifeless> laserpres<- coherent presentation
[09:12] <lifeless> and that story sounds compelling
[09:15] <poolie> 2- open source projects are so much more open to bug reporting that it's easy to get swamped, and bugs can be very fragmented
[09:18] <vila> poolie: regarding bugs: I think it's part of the open thing, in the long term they *will* be fixed, because the underlying assumption is that FOSS *cares* about software without bugs and dislike the tendency to make users think that buggy systems/tools are to be *expected*
[09:18] <poolie> 3- if you invite people to help, you're obliged to accept that help - don't drop patches but put them through some kind of coordinated merge review
[09:19] <poolie> mm
[09:19] <poolie> well
[09:19] <poolie> neither open nor closed projects fix all their bugs
[09:19] <poolie> and i'm not convinced closed projects care any less
[09:19] <poolie> at least, the best projects of either type probably care the same amount
[09:23] <vila> poolie: not IME, but don't let me disturb you
[09:23] <poolie> well
[09:23] <poolie> so the question is, what should i say about either how to handle bugs better, or what launchpad/bazaar do to help you handle bugs better
[09:24] <lifeless> anecdotally
[09:25] <lifeless> I just found that a patch I put up for cppunit 4?maybe more years ago - still in the bug tracker. 'postponed'
[09:26] <vila> lifeless: at least it's there and others can use it
[09:26] <poolie> well
[09:26] <poolie> kinda
[09:27] <vila> lifeless: it's not as good as if it has been integrated, but it's better than not available at all
[09:27] <poolie> though actually stephane did dig a patch out of the svn bug tracker a while ago
[09:27] <lifeless> I posted a dup of my patch - it was so long ago I'd forgotten that I'd posted it there ;)
[09:27] <lifeless> anyhow
[09:28] <vila> :-D
[09:28] <lifeless> linking bugs to code, management of the data is Good Stuff
[09:28] <awilkins> I do like the "proposed for merging" branches thing
[09:29] <lifeless> code review tied into scm and bugs is good
[09:29] <awilkins> We have a meeting about dev practices this morning and I fully intend to wave Launchpad around given the opportunity
[09:29] <awilkins> I just wish the network wasn't so crapulous here or I'd have an instance running by 1100
[09:31] <lifeless> :)
[09:31] <awilkins> Have all the sources just need the deps...
[10:13] <lvh> hi
[10:13] <lvh> I have two ssh keys, one with password and one without. I'd like to use the one without password as a signing key. Is that a bad idea?
[10:14] <lvh> also, am I supposed to get ssh to use the different key, or is there some way to get bzr to ask for a different key? (the former is how git does it)
[10:34] <krisives> How can I branch a repo into a target directroy?
[10:35] <krisives> I want to do `bzr branch /from/here /into/here` without it creating a new sub directory *inside* "here"
[10:37] <RAOF> krisives: Is there anything wrong with "bzr branch /from/here /into"?
[10:37] <krisives> I am branching user directories
[10:37] <krisives> So what I am trying to do basically is `bzr branch /home/developer /home/me`
[10:38] <krisives> Get it?
[10:41] <lifeless> krisives: you can do 'bzr init; bzr pull URL' as an alternative
[10:41] <krisives> Will it still be a repo?
[10:42] <krisives> ty, that seems to work well
[14:40] <vila> jam: ping, what did you do ? windows builds works again 8-/ (and yes, I half expect that you will answer: nothing)
[14:41] <corporate_cookie> it looks like the default version of bzr in Ubuntu Server LTS 8.04 is 1.3.1; is there a more recent supported version of bzr ?
[14:41] <beuno> corporate_cookie, you have the official PPAs, yes
[14:42] <vila> corporate_cookie: https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa ?
[14:42]  * beuno waves at vila
[14:42] <corporate_cookie> are they 'supported' as in can I tell my boss I can call canonical for 'help'  ?
[14:42]  * vila waves back :)
[14:43] <vila> corporate_cookie: AIUI yes
[14:43] <corporate_cookie> thanks : )
[14:43] <corporate_cookie> hooray : )
[14:43] <vila> pfew, that one was easy :-)
[14:44] <corporate_cookie> hehe thanks vila
[15:37] <lvh_> hm
[16:03] <Colonel-Rosa> What's the syntax for commit a spefic file?
[16:04] <Colonel-Rosa> bzr commit -m "message" /file/path
[16:04] <Colonel-Rosa> right?
[16:04] <luks> yes
[16:04] <Colonel-Rosa> Cheers
[16:14] <davidstrauss> Does anyone know how to take old-format branches that were upgraded to get rich root support to properly support "join"?
[16:40] <kfogel> I need to convert an older branch to be a branch in a new 2a repository.  Details here; see question at end: http://paste.ubuntu.com/252586/
[16:41] <kfogel> james_w: (am I on the right track above?)
[16:42] <james_w> kfogel: yeah
[16:42] <james_w> but I can't answer your question fully, sorry
[16:42] <kfogel> james_w: it's that easy, huh?  Great! :-)
[16:42] <kfogel> james_w: np, thanks for looking.
[16:42] <james_w> I thought there was a "migration guide" knocking around somewhere or something
[16:42] <kfogel> let me see
[16:43] <beuno> kfogel, hold on
[16:43] <beuno> why aren't you doing bzr upgrade?
[16:43] <beuno> you should reconcile *before* upgrading
[16:43] <kfogel> beuno: thank you.  (Er, that's why I'm *asking*.)
[16:44] <kfogel> beuno: IMNSHO bzr ought to notice and just DTRT, but since it apparently won't, I'll dance the upgrade dance.
[16:44] <beuno> kfogel, please nag the bzr list about this
[16:44] <kfogel> beuno: so, reconcile the old tree first; then bzr upgrade it; then branch it into the new shared repository
[16:45] <beuno> I've been tryingo the the upgrade story straight
[16:45] <beuno> kfogel, you can just upgrade the repo
[16:45] <kfogel> beuno: orig tree is not in a shared repo
[16:45] <kfogel> beuno: I mean, I could put it in one, just for this, but if that step can be avoided, then even better
[16:45] <beuno> kfogel, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2009q3/061057.html
[16:45] <beuno> kfogel, gotcha
[16:45] <beuno> yes then
[16:45] <kfogel> beuno: so if this works, I'll just write a bzr wiki page on it and post that
[16:46] <kfogel> beuno: thanks for the link!
[16:46] <beuno> kfogel, also: http://people.canonical.com/~ianc/doc/en/upgrade-guide/
[16:47] <kfogel> beuno: aaaaah
[16:47] <beuno> kfogel, also, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2009q2/058377.html
[16:47] <beuno> actually
[16:47] <beuno> no
[16:47] <beuno> ignore
[16:47] <beuno> that
[16:48] <kfogel> beuno: no, that one does have a section on data migration
[16:48] <beuno> Peng_ wrote something to the list
[17:01] <jam> vila: for windows builds working... it may be that I had created a hard link, which I subsequently deleted
[17:01] <jam> that, at least, is my best guess
[17:01] <jam> I also submitted some patches to the builder
[17:08] <vila> jam: k, thks for telling, anyway, I should have an XP setup locally soon (without cygwin) and will see from there
[17:12] <sque> Hello
[17:13] <sque> Can someone plz explain the main concept of how to create a multi-user bzr server?
[17:13] <sque> with different credentials for each user
[17:23] <kfogel> beuno-afk: I'm thinking maybe this is the page that needs to be updated: http://bazaar-vcs.org/FormatUpgrades  :-).
[17:28] <Tak> sque: super easy with ssh
[17:31] <sque> Tak: I have setup bzr+ssh at the moment and have created one user
[17:32] <sque> Tak: and the repository exists in /bzr. till now I can give this one user to all commiters to commit changes. I thought to create different users but how it will manage the file permissions?
[17:34] <Tak> it just uses the native file permissions, doesn't it?
[17:35] <sque> Tak yes it does. But if user A commits changes to repository user B will be unable to change some files. is this normal?
[17:36] <sque> Tak Or I bazaar repository can work with different file owners?
[17:37] <Tak> you can set the permissions however you want
[17:38] <Tak> world-writable, writable only by a developers group, project-specific write permissions, ...
[17:38] <sque> I think I am missing something here...
[17:47] <vila> jam: just see revno 4603 (your changes to the builder), the build worked before that (4602 at least, but I doubt that's related), so that hard link you're talking about sounds like a better explanation (which was it by the way ?)
[17:47] <sque> Tak I created a test branched did many commits from a root user and normal user... to see if it would have permission problems, but as I see bazaar does not change files it creates files for each new commit so alla the commits are readable from any user
[17:48] <jam> vila: I had hardlinked the build-win32 directory to try to avoid having 10 copies of all the download files everywhere
[17:48] <jam> but it looks like windows + hard links + acls just doesn't get along very well
[17:48] <vila> haaa, and you tried to use the one in the buildbot hierachy ?
[17:48] <sque> Tak I though it was working as svn that the repository should not be written by different user otherwise it would be fucked up.
[17:49] <jam> vila: something like that, yeah
[17:49] <vila> jam: right, that matches the fact that I had to delete a couple of files around,
[17:49] <vila> and why the failure was transient
[17:51] <vila> jam: by the way, the test farm now run selftest with/without locale so we should be able to remove that for pqm, shouldn't we define an explicit target for pqm by the way...
[17:51] <jam> vila: you mean something other than "make check" ?
[17:52] <jam> And yes, we probably could remove the second pass for PQM as long as we update documentation and general workflow
[17:52] <jam> to make people aware that some tests will be run asynchronously
[17:52] <jam> i'm guessing we aren't 100% ready to make the switch yet
[17:52] <jam> but we're probably getting close.
[17:54] <vila> jam: yeah, something like 'make pqm' with pqm: check to describe today behavior but make it clearer that it's the pqm rule
[17:55] <jam> vila: just call it "pqm-check"
[17:55] <vila> right, the missing bit is removing --no-plugins :-) See bug #412930
[17:55] <vila> jam: yup
[17:55]  * vila EODing
[17:56] <jam> so... they *should* be running with plugins
[17:56] <jam> and I'm not sure I agree about bug #412930
[17:56] <jam> but that is what discussion is for :)
[19:46] <elmo> how do I turn on http debugging?
[19:59] <kfogel> elmo: 'bzr help debug-flags' ?
[19:59] <kfogel> elmo: looks like 'bzr -Dhttp'
[20:00] <elmo> kfogel: thanks, I id RTFM but it doesn't even mention the word 'debug' :(
[20:00] <elmo> also -Dhttp doesn't appear to do anything
[20:01] <kfogel> elmo: Well, I didn't say it worked :-).
[20:01] <kfogel> elmo: wireshark?
[20:02] <fullermd> It worked last time I tried it (which admittedly, was a year or two ago, but...)
[20:19] <vila> elmo: -Dhttp will write all HTTP headers to .bzr.log
[20:20] <vila> can someone confirms that there are problems with bazaar.launchpad.net since ~1h ?
[20:22] <kfogel> vila: try in #launchpad too?
[20:22] <vila> kfogel: was just doing that :-)
[20:33] <divokz> I have a question about the "Advanced shared repository layouts" (as found in the User Guide).  How are these created on the server?  Do I just init-repo and mkdir directories like "branches", "tags", etc?  I was under the impression that this could be done in a space efficient way, but I'm having a hard time finding anything.  Is there not a command just to pull down the entire tree, including "trunk", "tags", "releases", etc?
[20:33] <divokz> I've heard of stacked branches, but if I make stacked branches on the server, do they pull down the branch and the stacked-on repository?
[20:34] <divokz> We have a lot of data, so space can be a concern
[20:39] <garyvdm> divokz: If you have a shared repository, that will share most of the data amongst different branches (that are in the shared repo.)
[20:40] <garyvdm> So creating a new branch won't consume alot of space.
[20:40]  * garyvdm looks at "Advanced shared repository layouts"
[20:40] <divokz> garyvdm: so if I do `bzr init-repo` and then make branches inside there, I'll get the behavior I'm looking for?
[20:41] <divokz> `bzr init-repo project_name`
[20:41] <divokz> `cd project_name`
[20:41] <garyvdm> bzr branch
[20:41] <garyvdm> yse
[20:41] <garyvdm> yes
[20:41] <divokz> okay
[20:42] <divokz> and then, if I want a features dir, I just `mkdir features`, `cd features`, `bzr branch ../trunk some_feature` ?
[20:42] <divokz> Won't I have to check out each branch on a local machine separately?
[20:43] <LarstiQ> divokz: yes, although I'd start out with less hierarchy and just 'bzr branch trunk some_feature'
[20:43] <garyvdm> You can just do  bzr branch trunk some_feature project_name
[20:43] <garyvdm> You can just do  bzr branch trunk some_feature *in* project_name
[20:43] <LarstiQ> divokz: ehm, I'd do the branching locally
[20:43] <divokz> LarstiQ: but what if the branches need to be shared?
[20:44] <garyvdm> divokz: Have a shared repo on both the server and your computer
[20:44] <LarstiQ> divokz: then you share them when you reach that point. You are right that there is no 'repository cloning'
[20:45] <divokz> LarstiQ: do you mean without storing them on the server?  (decentralized)
[20:45] <LarstiQ> divokz: if you feel more comfortable with storing them on the server, then do that :)
[20:45] <divokz> LarstiQ: :)
[20:46] <LarstiQ> divokz: but if it is a short lived feature branch only hacked on at a sprint, why bother, it will be merged soon anyway
[20:46] <divokz> Yeah, I'd use a local branch in that case
[20:46] <divokz> I'm talking about something longer
[20:47] <LarstiQ> divokz: sure, then it can make sense
[20:47] <divokz> But to check them out, I have to get each branch individually, correct?  (what you meant by 'no repository cloning'?)
[20:47] <LarstiQ> divokz: you have to get each branch you want individually, yes
[20:48] <divokz> okay, great -- I've been flipping through documentation for too long without finding this stuff out
[20:48] <LarstiQ> divokz: which is what I mean with no 'repository cloning'
[20:48] <LarstiQ> divokz: a repository is only a common revision store
[20:48] <divokz> Thanks, LarstiQ and garyvdm -- very helpful
[20:49] <garyvdm> divokz: Maybe be you misunderstand the "shared" in "shared repository". The data is shared by the different branches in side the shared repo. A shared repo is not nesserly shared as in accessible by other people.
[20:49] <divokz> garyvdm: yes, I did misunderstand that
[20:50] <divokz> garyvdm: so what does `bzr init-repo --no-trees repo_name` do in relation to that?
[20:50] <garyvdm> A branch normally contains a Working tree, a list of tags, and a pointer to the latest revision.
[20:51] <garyvdm> You can also have a branch with no working tree.
[20:51] <garyvdm> if you do bzr init-repo --no-trees, by default branches won't have a working tree
[20:52] <divokz> so, I would want that if I'm storing branches inside 'repo_name'?
[20:53] <garyvdm> A working tree is not the same thing as a repository
[20:53] <garyvdm> A working tree is the copy of the files on the disk, that you can edit, and then commit to the repository.
[20:54] <divokz> yes...
[20:54] <divokz> I guess I don't understand why else you wouldn't want to have a working tree in a branch
[20:54] <garyvdm> A branch with no working tree and be pulled to a branch with a working tree
[20:54] <garyvdm> cases where it is usefull:
[20:55] <garyvdm> on a server, we no one will be editing the working tree(wt), only pulling from their branches.
[20:55] <garyvdm> or
[20:56] <garyvdm> If you have one branch the you work in, and many other branches that you switch between
[20:56] <garyvdm> You bind the one that you work in to another on that has no working tree.
[20:57] <garyvdm> That way, you can have lots of branches, one working tree
[20:57] <divokz> could you point me to an example of this workflow?
[20:57]  * garyvdm looks at the docs
[20:58] <divokz> Or tutorial, etc -- I'm used to using more of the svn-oriented workflow
[20:58] <divokz> (thanks)
[20:59] <garyvdm> Can't find something in the docs, let me type up and example
[20:59] <garyvdm> *an
[21:07] <garyvdm> divokz:http://paste.ubuntu.com/252737/
[21:07] <divokz> garyvdm: I just *finally* found http://bazaar-vcs.org/SharedRepositoryTutorial -- it's helpful
[21:07] <divokz> garyvdm: thanks
[21:07] <garyvdm> I actual use that example I gave you alot.
[21:08] <divokz> garyvdm: I think that makes sense
[21:08] <divokz> I'm saving it at any rate :)
[21:10] <garyvdm> divokz: If you are not branching from somewhere else, I would recommend using the 2a format. It uses much less space.
[21:11] <garyvdm> if you are branching from some where else, then stick with the format of the branch you are branching.
[21:11] <divokz> somewhere else meaning a 3rd party?  Or just a separate machine?
[21:12] <garyvdm> 3rd party
[21:12] <divokz> k
[21:12] <divokz> I'll look into that -- could be helpful for some large datasets
[21:13] <garyvdm> If it's on a separate machine, you can just upgrade that branch too.
[21:13] <garyvdm> The reason why I say not to do it from a 3rd party, as that the conversion is one way.
[21:14] <divokz> makes sense
[21:14] <garyvdm> s/as/is
[21:18] <Noldorin> lifeless: pingf
[21:18] <Noldorin> ping*
[21:23] <lifeless> moin
[21:23] <lifeless> hi Noldorin
[21:24] <Noldorin> hi lifeless
[21:24] <Noldorin> how are things?
[21:24] <lifeless> ok
[21:24] <Noldorin> :)
[21:24] <Noldorin> you got a few free minutes now?
[21:25] <lifeless> I will in 20 or so
[21:25] <Noldorin> ok cool
[21:25] <Noldorin> i'll message you then
[21:49] <Noldorin> lifeless: so i noticed your updates to my bug report
[21:49] <Noldorin> looks like a pretty completely summary now :)
[21:51] <Noldorin> lifeless: was wondering where you wanted to proceed from here though
[21:57] <_thumper_> how can I find out which was the last mainline revision that a particular file was modified in?
[22:08] <jam> _thumper_: I seem to be getting a timeout when accessing http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jameinel/bzr/1.18-lock-warnings/.bzr/branch/format
[22:08] <jam> is something going on with LP right now?
[22:08] <thumper> jam: yes
[22:08] <thumper> it's minorly fucked
[22:08] <thumper> we're working on it right now
[22:08] <jam> k
[22:10] <Noldorin> lifeless: you there?
[22:16] <lifeless> Noldorin: hi yes, been doing reviews; more than I expected :)
[22:16] <lifeless> Noldorin: someone needs to follow through on the tests I've proposed in the bug report
[22:16] <lifeless> hi jam, thumper
[22:23] <Noldorin> lifeless: right, ok
[22:23] <Noldorin> lifeless: so no more suggestions for the moment?
[22:23] <Noldorin> i have the source on this PC
[22:23] <Noldorin> if you want to do any more tests
[22:24] <lifeless> not interactively; got a _lot_ to do to get 2.0 out the door; I'll monitor the bug, and if I can find the time put a patch up to do the read-back test
[22:24] <lifeless> you could do that yourself fairly easily I suspect
[22:24] <lifeless> there is a function in that file that the lock object uses to check that its in the right place on disk and has the right nonce
[22:25] <lifeless> calling that function right after the rename of held to the tmp-for-unlocking would be useful
[22:25] <lifeless> with a try;
[22:25] <lifeless>     ...rename...
[22:25] <lifeless> except errors.BzrError:
[22:25] <lifeless>     pass
[22:26] <lifeless> else:
[22:26] <lifeless>     print "lock still in place after rename-to-unlock"
[22:26] <Noldorin> lifeless: ok, i'll give that a go.
[22:26] <Noldorin> thanks
[22:27] <lifeless> I would like to spend more time myself on fixing this, but - 2.0 calls. Sorry!
[22:29] <Noldorin> lifeless: that's fair enough. i look forward to trying v2.0 anyway :)
[22:29] <Noldorin> maybe if we figure this out in time, you can encorperate the fix?
[22:32] <lifeless> Noldorin: I'd be delighted to
[22:47] <garyvdm> Is it ok (provided all test pass) to change a public method from returns [] to a generator (yield x)? Or should I create a new method iter_xxx?
[22:48] <garyvdm> The method in question is Repository.find_branches
[23:15] <james_w> "bzr: ERROR: Cannot commit from a lightweight checkout to a stacked branch. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/375013 for details."
[23:15] <james_w> but I'm not in a checkout!
[23:15] <james_w> is that an overzealous check, or is the message unclear?
[23:16] <lifeless> james_w: its a little unclear. You're in a stacked branch locally, right?
[23:16] <james_w> stacked against a remote branch
[23:16] <lifeless> thats been causing corruption for quite some time
[23:17] <james_w> Standalone tree (format: unnamed)
[23:17] <james_w> Location:
[23:17] <james_w>   branch root: .
[23:17] <james_w> Related branches:
[23:17] <james_w>   parent branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/xiphos/main/
[23:17] <james_w>      stacked on: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/xiphos/main/
[23:17] <lifeless> it doesn't work, and will give ACF errors
[23:17] <james_w> I'm actually testing due to bug 413291
[23:18] <james_w> back in a bit
[23:20] <garyvdm> Never mind about my question. There are test fails, so I'm going to add iter_find_branches
[23:20] <garyvdm> Or should that be iter_branches?
[23:46] <igc> morning
[23:49] <lifeless> hi igc
[23:49] <igc> hi lifeless
[23:49] <garyvdm> Hi igc, lifeless
[23:50] <igc> hi garyvdm
[23:51] <lifeless> hi garyvdm
[23:51] <lifeless> need more people to say hi to


[00:00] <rockstar> So, my name's Paul Hummer, I work on the Launchpad Code team.
[00:01] <rockstar> I haven't been very good at keeping track of everything I've done with Ubuntu, but I've been doing better recently.
[00:01] <rockstar> My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulHummer
[00:01] <pleia2> rockstar: are you involved with the colorado loco team at all?
[00:02] <pleia2> sounds like your plan to work with local school districts would be a great project for the team
[00:02] <rockstar> Well, involved in that I'm on the mailing list.  I used to be around for the meetings in IRC, but the LoCo team hasn't been doing much recently.
[00:02] <rockstar> pleia2, yeah, there were a couple of people working with schools.  I just made some contacts last week at some bigger schools.
[00:03] <pleia2> I find that frequently a lot of teams just need an energetic member to get things going again :) think you'd be interested in suggesting this project to jumpstart things again over there?
[00:03] <rockstar> Sure, although I'm also a bit farther away from most of the team geographically.  I've thought about starting another LoCo group up in Northern Colorado,
[00:04] <pleia2> well, loco teams are divided up by state, so I'd recommend another regional segment of the same team
[00:04] <rockstar> I went to school about 15 minutes east of where I currently live, in a rural area.  I'm pretty convinced that getting Free Software into U.S. schools will start with the ones with terrible funding/football teams.
[00:05] <boredandblogging> lol
[00:05] <rockstar> pleia2, yeah, it's just been something in the back of my mind.
[00:05] <pleia2> but cool :) I think you might find that one you get things rocking in northern CO southern might be shamed into following ;)
[00:06] <rockstar> Yea, I've worked a lot with the local LUG here.  I even organized the last install fest.
[00:06] <pleia2> woohoo, lugs! :)
[00:06] <nixternal> hola
[00:06] <rockstar> Most the Ubuntu virgins that showed up there were older than 60.  It was crazy.
[00:07] <nhasian> wow 60 year old virgins?  that IS crazy
[00:08] <greg-g> I just wanted to make it known in the meeting log I am here and have been given the scrollback of rockstar's application in a PM.
[00:08] <Technoviking> I have to step out (dead server at work) but +1 from me for rockstar, great work in LP and Edubuntu!
[00:08] <pleia2> well, I've grilled you plenty about the loco team, but your other work in the community speaks for itself, well done rockstar! +1 for membership from me :)
[00:08] <nixternal> +1 from me on rockstar
[00:08] <greg-g> I also give a +1 to rockstar
[00:08] <boredandblogging> anyone who works on LP is +1 from me
[00:08] <nixternal> liar!
[00:09] <greg-g> thanks for your work, rockstar !
[00:09] <nhasian> rockstar, great job man congrats
[00:09] <greg-g> thats 5 +1s, welcome aboard!
[00:09] <pleia2> congrats rockstar, welcome :)
[00:10] <nixternal> congrats and welcome rockstar
[00:10] <rockstar> Thanks guys!
[00:11] <pleia2> lp has been read-only for the past hour, but I'll be adding everyone who was approved this evening to the members team as soon as I can
[00:11] <pleia2> thanks for coming everyone! congrats again to the new members :)
[00:11]  * beuno waves and leaves for bed, hoping that he wakes up to a read-write launchpad
[00:12] <nhasian> bye everyone
[00:12] <beuno> congrats to all the new ubuntees
[00:12] <greg-g> thanks everyone
[00:12] <DKcross> thanks!!
[00:12]  * beuno winks at rockstar
[00:12] <greg-g> congrats to rockstar and the others who I missed, I'm sure you all deserved it! :)
[00:12] <DKcross> i cant believe!
[00:12] <DKcross> :)
[00:12]  * rockstar waves at beuno
[00:59] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo forumsmatthew =)
[00:59] <forumsmatthew> greetings
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> Technoviking: poke ;)
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> anyone else here for the FC meeting ?
[01:02] <forumsmatthew> I don't see u-g, bapoumba, or kiwi online, but it's early. I just gave jdong a ping
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> kk, I cleaned out the schedule earlier so it looks light :twisted:
[01:04] <forumsmatthew> The first item is more of an FYI/announcement thing, so even if the others aren't here, I think we can put it on the record.
[01:05] <forumsmatthew> The second is something we have discussed on the mailing list and can finalize, I think.
[01:05] <forumsmatthew> let's give people a little more time, though
[01:06] <DKcross> i have questions..:|
[01:06] <DKcross> well... now that I'm ubuntu member before the meet.. what is the next step?
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> Sec DKcross , we will give you a chance =)
[01:07] <DKcross> thanks
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
[01:10] <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:10. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
[01:10] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> Let's start then
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[01:11] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] UA Team
[01:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  UA Team
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> This is primarily an update, this has been discussed on the mailing list as well
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> ajmorris has been busy with school and did not officially "step down" as team lead, but has not been overly active either
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> Hellow and PT are willing to help, but PT seems busy, so that leaves Hellow for now
[01:12] <bodhi_zazen> Hellow has been doing great
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> Comments , questions ?
[01:13] <forumsmatthew> I'm glad to see we have good people involved
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> DKCross are you Lord Xeb ?
[01:13] <forumsmatthew> thanks to PT and Hello
[01:13] <forumsmatthew> Hellow
[01:13] <DKcross> bodhi_zazen,  what?
[01:13] <bodhi_zazen> Next topic ?
[01:14] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Lord Xeb
[01:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lord Xeb
[01:14] <forumsmatthew> Okay, since it seems Lord Xeb is not here...
[01:14] <DKcross> :o
[01:14] <forumsmatthew> we have discussed this on the mailing list in depth
[01:14] <forumsmatthew> we have no intention of allowing him to return
[01:14] <forumsmatthew> the account is not going to be "unbanned"
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> +1, that has been the general consensus
[01:15] <forumsmatthew> now that we have this in the official record, we can probably move on, unless there is another comment specific to that issue
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> Any further comments ?
[01:15] <bodhi_zazen> Any further questions
[01:15] <forumsmatthew> I have something short to add at the end of the meeting. It will be quick
[01:16] <bodhi_zazen> OK
[01:16] <forumsmatthew> let's move on to see what DKcross wanted to say/ask
[01:16] <bodhi_zazen> DKcross: did you have a question ?
[01:17] <DKcross> no, no man
[01:17] <DKcross> thanks
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> OK, forumsmatthew :
[01:17] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]meetings, irc, and the FC
[01:17] <MootBot> New Topic: meetings, irc, and the FC
[01:17] <forumsmatthew> almost all of the FC members work jobs that do not permit access to IRC
[01:17] <forumsmatthew> we have a lot of trouble finding times when all of us are both awake and at home
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[01:18] <forumsmatthew> we are talking and looking for other options for public, regular meetings
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> There was a general consensus to 22:00:00 UTC time
[01:18] <forumsmatthew> yeah, we're going to see how that works for a while
[01:18] <bodhi_zazen> since not many are here, mailing list ?
[01:18] <forumsmatthew> I have to leave work early to make that time
[01:18] <forumsmatthew> anyway, I just want it on the record...
[01:19] <forumsmatthew> that we are aware this is a problem
[01:19] <forumsmatthew> and we are looking for a solution
[01:19] <forumsmatthew> that's all I had to say on that
[01:19] <bodhi_zazen> IRC meeting are a commitment especially as we are not all in the same time zone
[01:20] <forumsmatthew> we haven't yet found anything better, but it would be nice
[01:20] <bodhi_zazen> mailing list seems better, at least if an agenda item is discussed and people can express their votes on the issue if needed
[01:20] <forumsmatthew> that works for just about everything and I like that most business has moved to the mailing list
[01:20] <bodhi_zazen> I am frequently on IRC and do not mind passing information IRC <-> mailing list
[01:20] <forumsmatthew> let's see where things go next
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> I think it is good to hold sessions where we can listen to the community, but IRC is not the only option, we can , well, forums =)
[01:21] <bodhi_zazen> Any other topics ?
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> Otherwise it has been 20 minutes and I think we can end the meeting
[01:22] <forumsmatthew> +1
[01:22] <forumsmatthew> bye, everyone!
[01:22] <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
[01:22] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:22.
[18:00] <dholbach> mdeslaur, mterry, jpds, soren, nixternal: around?
[18:00] <mterry> dholbach, hihi
[18:00] <mdeslaur> dholbach: yes
[18:00] <nixternal> hola
[18:00] <jpds> Hello.
[18:00] <dholbach> I talked to jpds a few minutes ago, so let's kick off the meeting :)
[18:00] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is dholbach.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <dholbach> We have an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
[18:01] <dholbach> Fabrice notified us that he might not be able to make it, or later, so we'll do mdeslaur and mterry first
[18:01] <mterry> ok
[18:01] <dholbach> if this doesn't work out for Fabrice, we can still have a chat with him tomorrow and try to organise an impromptu meeting
[18:01] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Marc Deslauriers' MOTU application
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Marc Deslauriers' MOTU application
[18:02] <dholbach> hey mdeslaur - how are you doing?
[18:02] <mdeslaur> dholbach: great!
[18:02] <dholbach> cool - that's what we like to hear :)
[18:02] <mdeslaur> so, my application is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcDeslauriers/MOTUapplication
[18:02] <dholbach> great
[18:03] <dholbach> mdeslaur: when you started participating in Ubuntu development what did you find the toughest challenge?
[18:03] <mdeslaur> Coming from an rpm background, I think the toughest challenge was learning debian packaging
[18:04]  * nixternal kicks the wiki
[18:04] <mdeslaur> There's a _bunch_ of different patch systems I had to wrap my head around
[18:04] <mdeslaur> but once I figured the main ones out, the rest wasn't bad
[18:04] <geser> how is rpm packaging compared to debian packaging?
[18:04] <dholbach> mdeslaur: mvo and I were talking about patch systems and creating a wrapper around all of them, so you just have to master one command... do you think that'd help?
[18:04] <nixternal> mdeslaur: I agree with you 100%...though I went from Debian to RPM recently, and it amazes how easy it is to package an RPM package...not so much easy, as it is less time consuming
[18:05] <nixternal> though, because it is easier/less time consuming...man it can create some headaches really quick
[18:05] <mdeslaur> well, packaging RPMs is pretty simple, as everyone pretty much does it the same way
[18:06] <mdeslaur> but, on the other hand, RPMs are very simple, so as soon as you want to do something a little more advanced, it gets complicated
[18:06] <dholbach> mdeslaur: what apart from patch systems do you think might be unnecessarily complicated or do you think there's a good justification for everything?
[18:06] <nixternal> one of the things I see in your application is working on getting AppArmor support intgrated into apache...what is the future off apparmor? is it sticking around or is it going to get replaced?
[18:07] <mdeslaur> dholbach: i think having a bunch of different build systems is slightly complicated for a beginner also
[18:07] <dholbach> nixternal: http://lwn.net/Articles/353837/ :)
[18:07] <mdeslaur> nixternal: apparmor just got submitted upstream
[18:07] <mdeslaur> nixternal: it's the MAC system that fits well with Ubuntu ideals
[18:08] <nixternal> guess I should start reading again :)
[18:08] <dholbach> mdeslaur: so you think the variety of options to get the job done is the biggest problem?
[18:09] <mdeslaur> dholbach: to answer you earlier question, the what-patch command, and having XXX-edit-patch for every patch system is cool
[18:09] <dholbach> mdeslaur: I was more talking about one edit-patch command that does all the work for you :)
[18:10] <mdeslaur> dholbach: yeah, that would be great
[18:10] <nixternal> mdeslaur: why did you apply for MOTU instead of just going for core-dev?
[18:10] <dholbach> mdeslaur: so... are you up for hacking on it on the next sprint? :)
[18:11] <mdeslaur> nixternal: the process seems to be going through MOTU first, and being a Canonical employee, I didn't want to appear to be getting favors
[18:11] <mdeslaur> dholbach: sure :)
[18:11] <dholbach> mdeslaur: cool :-)
[18:12] <mdeslaur> nixternal: does that make sense?
[18:12] <nixternal> hrmm, we really need to fix something if a lot of people think MOTU is the first step...
[18:12]  * mterry thinks that too
[18:12] <jpds> nixternal: Soon it will all be the same.
[18:12] <nixternal> mdeslaur: as a Canonical employee you wouldn't get any favors, I automatically vote -1 for you all :p
[18:12] <mdeslaur> nixternal: oh, cool :)
[18:12] <nixternal> haha
[18:13] <dholbach> mdeslaur: nixternal was saying about some applicants that hadn't paid him
[18:13] <dholbach> .... anyway :)
[18:13] <nixternal> ya, it seems a vast majority of the packages you worked on are in main with just a few in universe/multiverse
[18:13] <mdeslaur> nixternal: I do a lot of security update sponsoring for universe
[18:14] <mdeslaur> nixternal: and, do some security updates for universe in my spare time on packages I use
[18:14] <nixternal> mdeslaur: right, and if you went for core-dev and got it, you have access everywhere, which is where I think you should have went to be honest, but it is cool if you want to start here :)
[18:14] <mdeslaur> nixternal: I also fixed a bunch of issues in gnome-ppp the other day
[18:14] <dholbach> geser, jpds: more questions?
[18:14] <mdeslaur> nixternal: I plan on becoming core-dev
[18:14] <nixternal> not bashing you for going MOTU first :)
[18:14] <jpds> None from me.
[18:14] <nixternal> I am good on questions, and will have 1 recommendation when this is complete
[18:15] <geser> dholbach: no
[18:15] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Marc Deslauriers become MOTU?
[18:15] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Marc Deslauriers become MOTU?.
[18:15] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[18:15] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[18:15] <nixternal> +1
[18:15] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[18:15] <dholbach> +1
[18:15] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[18:15] <jpds> +1
[18:15] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[18:15] <geser> +1
[18:15] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[18:15] <dholbach> [endvote]
[18:15] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[18:15] <dholbach> congratulations mdeslaur!
[18:15] <nixternal> mdeslaur: congrats and welcome!
[18:15] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone :)
[18:15] <jpds> mdeslaur: congrats!
[18:15] <nixternal> mdeslaur: my 1 recommendation...NOW APPLY FOR CORE DEV! :)
[18:15] <fabrice_sp> congrats mdeslaur :-)
[18:16] <dholbach> hahaha
[18:16] <mdeslaur> nixternal: yes!
[18:16] <mterry> yay
[18:16] <dholbach> fabrice_sp turned up, so we'll keep in order of the agenda
[18:16]  * nixternal now has someone else new to pick on for KDE security stuff... kees will be happy
[18:16] <fabrice_sp> I sorted some traffic jam :-)
[18:16] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Fabrice Coutadeur's MOTU application
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Fabrice Coutadeur's MOTU application
[18:16] <dholbach> hey fabrice_sp - how are you doing?
[18:17] <fabrice_sp> I'm good. thank you :-) A bit nerviuos, I have to say...
[18:17] <fabrice_sp> (I think you'll a lot of typos today :-) )
[18:17] <dholbach> no need to do... apart from nixternal nobody of us bites
[18:17] <fabrice_sp> lol
[18:17] <geser> lucky for mterry as else we would need asking him questions till fabrice_sp appears :)
[18:17] <nixternal> I don't bite, but I do punch :D
[18:17]  * mterry will happily wait to be grilled
[18:18] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: good work on the FTBFS front - I had a look at a few patches of yours this morning
[18:18] <fabrice_sp> I saw that :-)
[18:18] <dholbach> jpds, geser, nixternal: questions
[18:18] <nixternal> working on that now :)
[18:18] <fabrice_sp> I will submit the missing one to Debian just after this meeting
[18:19]  * nixternal notes the new LP interface is confusing as hell
[18:19]  * fabrice_sp noted that this morning
[18:19] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: you're interested in video editing... how are things looking there in Ubuntu?
[18:19] <dholbach> and do you have any plans for lucid with that?
[18:20] <jpds> fabrice_sp: Other than changelogs do you seriously have no areas to improve?
[18:20] <fabrice_sp> Well better now that there are some packages in Debian, but there is still a lot of packages only in Debian Multimedia that needs some care :-)
[18:20] <fabrice_sp> For Lucid, I really really want to get the latest Openmovieeditor, that I hosted in my ppa since beginning of the year
[18:21] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: what was the blocker to get it in Ubuntu?
[18:21] <fabrice_sp> I assume you remember the 'gmerlin-avdecoder' bug :-)
[18:21] <dholbach> beginning of the year and not in Ubuntu sounds like something went wrong
[18:21] <dholbach> yes, I remember bits of it
[18:21] <fabrice_sp> well, this missing package
[18:21] <nixternal> good work on the old aRts removal stuff btw
[18:21] <fabrice_sp> since my sync request and when you had a look at it, the package became non buildable in karmic
[18:22] <fabrice_sp> nixternal, thanks :-) Even if I'm not a K guy, I sometine fix some K packages :-)
[18:22] <dholbach> ah ok... I remember... do you think there's a way to get it fixed?
[18:22] <nixternal> fabrice_sp: since none of your endorsements say there are any areas to improve on with yourself, do you think you have some areas to improve on at all, and if so what are they?
[18:22] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, we just need to sync some packages from Debian and get this one from Debian multimedia
[18:22] <nixternal> fabrice_sp: that is always good in my books, people like dholbach just walk past them and assign me to them... or is that jcastro that does that :D
[18:23] <dholbach> what? :)
[18:23] <fabrice_sp> nixternal, I really need to improve the link with Debian. It's still somewhat obscure to me how Debian packages and maintainer really work
[18:24] <fabrice_sp> technical knowledge about building systems (discovered dbs some days ago :-) )
[18:24] <nixternal> groovy!
[18:24] <dholbach> jpds, geser: more questions?
[18:24] <nixternal> I am done
[18:25] <jpds> Likewise.
[18:25] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become MOTU?
[18:25] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Fabrice Coutadeur become MOTU?.
[18:25] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[18:25] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[18:25] <dholbach> +1
[18:25] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[18:25] <nixternal> +1
[18:25] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[18:25] <geser> +1
[18:25] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[18:25] <jpds> +1
[18:25] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[18:25] <dholbach> [endvote]
[18:25] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[18:25] <nixternal> fabrice_sp: congrats and welcome!
[18:26] <dholbach> fabrice_sp: congratulations
[18:26] <jpds> fabrice_sp: Congrats!
[18:26] <fabrice_sp> thanks! That was quick :-)
[18:26] <dholbach> It was time that you applied already :-)))))
[18:26] <fabrice_sp> lol
[18:26] <fabrice_sp> dholbach, thanks for your support: you sponsored almost 80% of my debdiff :-)
[18:26] <dholbach> that might well be
[18:26] <dholbach> now I can sleep one hour longer every morning ;-)
[18:26] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Michael Terry's MOTU application
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Terry's MOTU application
[18:26] <fabrice_sp> lol
[18:27] <mterry> heyo
[18:27] <dholbach> mterry: hey Michael - how's life? :)
[18:27] <mterry> Good.  I'm in Portland for the Plumbers conference
[18:27] <dholbach> ah cool
[18:27] <nixternal> mterry: interesting, you work for OEM services, yet cody-somerville hasn't chimed in on your application, time we do something about that cody character :p
[18:28] <geser> dholbach: I guess will find a new contributor for you soon to wake you up early :)
[18:28] <mterry> nixternal, yeah, I dunno.  When I applied for Membership, he abstained because he works with me.  Might be a conflict of interest thing
[18:28] <dholbach> mterry: how's deja-dup coming on? when is it ready for the default install?
[18:28] <nixternal> oh ya, he does that all of the time, then I try to smack it into him to give me the goods :D
[18:28] <mterry> dholbach, pfft, today!  :)
[18:28] <mterry> dholbach, it's good.  Will release a new version next week
[18:29] <mterry> Always looking for contributors...
[18:29] <dholbach> mterry: so if I'll try to let it keep a few files and folders in sync for me on a couple of machines that'll work easily? :)
[18:29] <nixternal> mterry: well the same question for you, since your endorsements don't list any things you need to work on, just how perfect are you? :p  what areas do you think you can improve on?
[18:29] <mterry> dholbach, sync'ing isn't really it's forte.  More for disaster recovery
[18:30] <dholbach> ah ok
[18:30] <nixternal> what happened to that nip2 upload on June 15th that didn't build on a darn thing?
[18:30] <mterry> nixternal, well, there's bits of process that I tend to forget like running update-maintainer.  And like I mention, I think I'm a bit hasty at times.  Need to slow down and double-verify my patches.  :)
[18:30] <nixternal> you and I both on update-maintainer
[18:30] <nixternal> at least debuild tells ya, "HEY! FIX IT NOW!"
[18:30]  * mterry tries to remember the nip2 debacle.
[18:31] <mterry> nixternal, there was at least one case of me forgetting to actually build a package and it ftbfs (totally my fault).  And there was once case of it becoming unbuildable between my patch and when it got pushed
[18:31] <mterry> So I don't remember which nip2 is
[18:32] <nixternal> hehe, tis ok
[18:32] <mterry> I was doing a lot of merges at the time.  They all kind of merged together in my memory.  (hah!)
[18:32] <nixternal> i have built stuff locally just fine, only to upload it and watch it blow up
[18:32] <nixternal> or I was in the wrong Konsole tab and committed something that wasn't supposed to be committed
[18:33] <dholbach> for those who are interested in fixing it later on: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29642970/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.nip2_7.18.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :-)
[18:33] <mterry> Ahah.
[18:33] <mterry> This is the one I forgot to build
[18:33] <mterry> And I've looked into fixing it.
[18:33] <nixternal> hehe
[18:33] <mterry> Not an easy task.  it uses lots of 'private' GTK+ struct members that are now gone
[18:34] <mterry> Lots of code changes.
[18:34] <dholbach> sounds like something that upstream should learn about
[18:34] <mterry> I believe I filed an upstream bug
[18:34] <dholbach> great
[18:34] <dholbach> do you have any more specific plans than getting deja-dup into main? :)
[18:34] <mterry> I don't think they have a bug tracker, hopefully I emailed that out
[18:34] <nixternal> no more questions from me...my dogs are clawing at my legs to go outside :p
[18:35] <mterry> hehe.  I hope to sponsor lots of stuff.  Long sponsorship queues are bad for both sides
[18:35] <dholbach> ok... that makes me happy - no more questions from me :)
[18:35] <dholbach> jpds, geser?
[18:35] <jpds> None.
[18:36] <nixternal> -1
[18:36] <nixternal> ;p
[18:36] <geser> mterry: how did you manage to get member of ~ubuntu-mir before ~motu?
[18:36] <mterry> geser, that's an excellent question
[18:37] <nixternal> lol, good eye there geser :)
[18:37] <mterry> geser, I can only assume because they were deeply underwater at the time.  I believe it was lool's/pitti's idea, because they knew me/my work
[18:37] <nixternal> dang, maybe someone needs to work on becoming a core-dev as well :)
[18:37] <mterry> Honestly, MIR is a bit different skill set than MOTU, although an eye for packaging tragedies is good
[18:38] <mterry> And I've only taken baby MIRs because I'm not confident
[18:38] <dholbach> that could probably be announced a bit more publicly in the future
[18:38] <geser> but it's still a good sign that they trust you to do MIRs
[18:38] <dholbach> team changes wrt archive admins, mir people, etc.
[18:39] <geser> dholbach: yes please
[18:39] <dholbach> geser: any more questions?
[18:39] <mterry> nixternal, core-dev is my next stop.  :)  or it's equivalent
[18:39] <geser> dholbach: no more questions
[18:39] <mterry> Hurry up on the motu changes.  I want to be "The Last of the MOTUs"
[18:39] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Michael Terry become MOTU?
[18:39] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Michael Terry become MOTU?.
[18:39] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[18:39] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[18:39] <nixternal> right, forgot that could change one of these days :)
[18:39] <nixternal> +1
[18:39] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[18:39] <jpds> +1
[18:39] <MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[18:39] <geser> +1
[18:39] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[18:40] <dholbach> +1
[18:40] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[18:40] <dholbach> [endvote]
[18:40] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[18:40] <mterry> Yay!
[18:40] <dholbach> congratulations mterry!
[18:40] <nixternal> mterry: congrats and welcome!
[18:40] <dholbach> awesome
[18:40] <dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[18:40] <jpds> congrats mterry.
[18:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[18:40] <mterry> Thanks all
[18:40] <nixternal> YES! Welcome back MC? :P
[18:40] <dholbach> who is going to do the honours?
[18:40] <nixternal> what a busy busy summer
[18:40]  * nixternal voluntells jpds
[18:41]  * nixternal goes and lets the dogs out before he gets voluntold
[18:42] <dholbach> if nobody else does it, I'll do it - but I need to get the dog out before :)
[18:42] <dholbach> ok... I guess I voluntold myself :)
[18:42] <nixternal> yes, yes you did :P
[18:42] <dholbach> thanks everybody
[18:42] <dholbach> take care
[18:42] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[18:42] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:42.
[18:42] <nixternal> CONGRATS EVERYONE!!!! NOW GET TO WORK!!!!
[18:42] <dholbach> haha
[18:42] <mterry> :)
[18:42] <czajkowski> grin
[18:42] <fabrice_sp> thanks ;-)
[18:42] <nixternal> pfft, Canonical workers spending time on IRC during work hours...tisk tisk
[18:44] <czajkowski> nixternal: how about the other folks who spend just as much time on here avoding their work
[18:44] <nixternal> czajkowski: that's what I do :)
[18:45] <czajkowski> nixternal: likewise
[18:59] <jcastro> Ubuntu Global Jam meeting is taking place in #ubuntu-classroom in about 2 minutes!
[19:45] <cody-somerville> nixternal, For the record, I do indeed endorse mterry's MOTU application.