[04:29] <Burglaptop> salut Madpilot
[04:29] <Madpilot> hi Burglaptop
[04:31] <Madpilot> Burgwork: the http://gcompris.net/ website does work in Opera, at least here
[04:32] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: hmm
[04:32] <Burglaptop> you tested all of it?
[04:34] <Madpilot> not all, but I've followed most of the links on the lefthand menu
[04:34] <Burglaptop> ok
[04:34] <Burglaptop> I will report that
[04:34] <Madpilot> this is the latest Opera, 8.52 - I just updated a day or so ago
[04:38] <Madpilot> "we will bikeshed all day" - what does "bikeshed" mean in this context, Burglaptop?
[04:39] <Burglaptop> talk about useless things and never get anywhere
[04:39] <Madpilot> heh, OK. Why "to bikeshed"?
[04:40] <jsgotangco> gcompris?
[04:41] <Burglaptop> http://bikeshed.com/
[04:43] <Madpilot> "Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change."
[04:43] <Madpilot> and what an awful, awful background colour! :P
[04:52] <Burglaptop> ok, grumble
[04:53] <jsgotangco> what's this talk of Guide XML
[04:53] <Burglaptop> no idea, more random tangents and bikeshedding
[04:53] <Burglaptop> did you see my plea?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> reading now
[04:54] <jsgotangco> guide xml doesn't suit us at the moment since we use yelp anyway
[04:55] <jsgotangco> talk of infrastructure doesn't go anywhere
[04:55] <Burglaptop> I also think docbook is suboptimal, but talking about changing right now is foolish
[04:59] <jsgotangco> i just ignore it lately
[05:03] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: do you have any thoughts on the whole wiki split thing?
[05:03] <jsgotangco> honestly, none at the moment, i was busy with g-a-i, u-m and now with edubuntu
[05:06] <Burglaptop> what are you doing with g-a-i and u-m?
[05:07] <jsgotangco> just a some string updates and the doco
[05:12] <Burglaptop> \ah
[05:15] <Burglaptop> cool, usplash down just landed
[05:22] <jsgotangco> tuxmath crack me up jeez
[05:25] <jsgotangco> wonder why tuxtype is only fullscreen
[05:28] <Burglaptop> gcompris only does 800x600
[05:30] <jsgotangco> Burglaptop: i sometimes wonder how fixated people are with regards to tagging their work as official/unofficial
[05:32] <Burglaptop> I understand some of it
[05:33] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: it's either "it's better to be official" or "It's cooler to be unofficial", it seems like...
[07:12] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: ping, cheap one liner again
[07:12] <jsgotangco> :D
[07:13] <Burglaptop> as long it isn't one nighter...
[07:13] <robotgeek> i was worried about why my document was not validating, lol
[07:13] <robotgeek> i know a bit  more about docbook, lol
[07:18] <Burglaptop> interesting little bit I read a while back
[07:18] <Burglaptop> 80% think they understand the tone of what they read, while actually only 50% understood the tone
[07:18] <robotgeek> i think it was on slashdot
[07:19] <Madpilot> ...and on slashdot, it instantly degenerated into the sort of discussion where *nobody* got the tone... :P
[07:20] <robotgeek> yeah, if you have made that comment on slashdot, you probably would have been modded +5 funny
[07:22] <Burglaptop> wow, the web is so much more pleasant without flash
[07:23] <robotgeek> being on linux ppc does have it's advantages :)
[07:24] <robotgeek> Madpilot: nice link "bikeshed"
[07:26] <robotgeek> anyways, back to work. i need to bring DG to a reviewable state, lol
[07:47] <Burglaptop> where are xubuntu-docs being developed?
[07:53] <LaserJock> Burglaptop: no clue. Are there xubuntu docs? other than xfce docs
[07:54] <jsgotangco> none that i know
[07:54] <jsgotangco> rob spearheaded one but he disappeared
[08:44] <mdke> Burgwork, upstream
[08:44] <mdke> i heard that a few people were interested in doing some for ubuntu, but never heard anything concrete
[08:52] <mdke> bloody hell @ mailing list
[08:54] <jsgotangco> what about?
[08:55] <mdke> the changes to infrastructure etc
[08:55] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:55] <jsgotangco> there is a strange fixation to such
[08:58] <jsgotangco> mdke: i've already commited the last batch of updates for g-a-i it's already merged in the bzr of mvo, i'll clean up that part after freeze
[08:58] <jsgotangco> u-m on its way
[08:58] <Madpilot> u-m?
[08:58] <jsgotangco> update manager
[08:58] <Madpilot> ah
[08:59] <mdke> jsgotangco, oh cool, nice work
[08:59] <mdke> hiya Madpilot
[09:00] <jsgotangco> mdke: as for the png we have on svn, i was thinking of optimizing them using pngcrush or something similar
[09:00] <jsgotangco> it'll reduce the size by at least 50%
[09:00] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[09:00] <LaserJock> mdke: which ML was the "bloody hell" about? I'm losing track :(
[09:02] <mdke> jsgotangco, for all of them?
[09:02] <mdke> jsgotangco, if it works well... sounds good
[09:02] <mdke> LaserJock, ours
[09:02] <LaserJock> mdke: really? I thought it was pretty tame. I'll have to read some more ;-)
[09:03] <jsgotangco> mdke: yeah after distro release i guess or have those working on screenshots optimzize it themselves :)
[09:03] <mdke> ok
[09:05] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: that is a good idea, the repo is pretty large and I think a lot of size is due to images.
[09:06] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:07] <jsgotangco> i learned about pngcrush when i saw a bug report on synaptic
[09:07] <jsgotangco> regarding the manual
[09:08] <mdke> can you just crush all the files in one go?
[09:09] <jsgotangco> i haven't tried it but i'm sure its possible
[09:09] <jsgotangco> if only it works in dapper now
[09:09] <HrdwrBoB> er
[09:10] <jsgotangco> it seemed to have been broken after a libpng update
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> find -name \*.png -exec pngcrush '{}' \;
[09:11] <jsgotangco> there ya go regex love
[09:12] <HrdwrBoB> well, not really
[09:17] <mdke> -> work
[10:03] <mdke> Madpilot, feel free to mark sections complete as you check them for typos
[10:04] <Madpilot> will do - I moved a few status tags just now, but ignored most of them
[10:05] <mdke> and you can do a patch for the whole dg directory, rather than individual files, if you like
[10:05] <Madpilot> with the same "svn diff", or does the syntax change when you're diff'ing entire directories?
[10:06] <mdke> same
[10:06] <Madpilot> thanks - I'll keep that in mind
[10:07] <mdke> ok applied
[10:07] <mdke> i made one tiny change so svn up
[10:07] <Madpilot> will do, but I'm not doing any more editing tonight
[10:07] <mdke> cool, thanks for those
[10:07] <Madpilot> np
[10:09] <Madpilot> bhuvan: I can do basic proofreading for serverguide if you like
[10:09] <mdke> bhuvan, we'll get there, don't worry
[10:09] <mdke> the DG needed some major love tho
[10:10] <bhuvan> Madpilot: you provide your love to dg. we'll get your help, if need be in the end
[10:17] <Madpilot> OK, I lied, one last diff off to the list
[10:19] <mdke> ooh printers
[10:19] <mdke> what do you envisage going in that section? specific printer hardware?
[10:20] <Madpilot> at a minimum, a pointer to whereever Dapper keeps it's Printer config thing - it's System-Admin-Printers in Breezy
[10:21] <Madpilot> links to the wiki's printer stuff, maybe to linuxprinting.org
[10:21] <mdke> is this a common task though?
[10:22] <Madpilot> printers are more common than handhelds, and we've got a section on handhelds & Ubuntu
[10:22] <mdke> i mean, should it be in common-tasks.xml
[10:23] <Madpilot> maybe - right now most of the hardware stuff is in config-system.xml, though
[10:24] <mdke> sure, so if that is going to be hardware directed, it's definitely in the right place
[10:24] <mdke> if it's just a guide to printing, i dunno
[10:27] <Madpilot> anyway, I need to get some sleep - email the list about the printer thing, perhaps?
[10:27] <mdke> okay!
[10:27] <Madpilot> talk to you later
[10:27] <mdke> night
[02:53] <jsgotangco> mdke: new documentation wiki???
[02:54] <mdke> sorry?
[02:57] <jsgotangco> new wiki gets merged with help?
[02:58] <mdke> just miss out the word "new"
[02:58] <jsgotangco> wiki gets to be under help.ubuntu.com?
[02:59] <mdke> yes...
[02:59] <mdke> we've been talking about that for 6 months or so
[03:01] <jsgotangco> ah i'm so zoned out of all this infrastructure talk im not having fun anymore
[03:02] <mdke> me neither
[03:02] <mdke> let's just make some good docs
[03:02] <jsgotangco> that's what i'm doing
[03:04] <mdke> i didn't mean to suggest you weren't :)
[03:04] <mdke> i know you are
[03:04] <jsgotangco> :D
[04:28] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:28] <jsgotangco> nm killed my network
[04:28] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:26] <LaserJock> mdke: Kamion mdke: it's the d-i installation manual
[05:26] <LaserJock> mdke: I looked it up myself
[05:27] <LaserJock> it is the documentation for the debian installer
[05:28] <LaserJock> so I don't think it is of any use to Ubuntu
[05:29] <LaserJock> hmm, guess I was wrong :(
[05:34] <LaserJock> mdke: I think Kamion has a good point. We perhaps should collect some of the Debian docs (at least links) and put them somewhere on help.u.c
[05:37] <jsgotangco> its basically d-i with some string changes
[05:37] <jsgotangco> but its no different to the breezy manual
[05:37] <jsgotangco> the request is reasonable though
[05:38] <LaserJock> I think we should make a place on doc.ubuntu.com where we just set up catagorized links to the debian docs.
[05:38] <jsgotangco> mdke: so are we going to put this?
[05:38] <jsgotangco> its pretty trivial imo
[05:38] <jsgotangco> but horribly out of place in our current setup
[05:39] <jsgotangco> doh
[05:39] <jsgotangco> i'll just reply to this email
[05:40] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I think he'll be back, he was having connection problems
[06:01] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I just sent a RE: to your RE: ;-) hope it makes sense
[06:01] <jsgotangco> heh its 1am nothing makes sense to me now
[06:01] <LaserJock> lol
[06:02] <LaserJock> well it's only 0900 here so I have no excuse
[06:12] <LaserJock> now I feel dumb. :(
[07:06] <theCore> hello LaserJock
[07:06] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[07:06] <theCore> I'm so lucky, or actually unlucky
[07:07] <theCore> I had hard drive failure, this week
[07:07] <theCore> I lost many files, but none from PackagingGuide
[07:08] <LaserJock> yikes
[07:08] <LaserJock> another one?
[07:08] <theCore> ya, this one is due to aggressive shutdown technics
[07:11] <LaserJock> jeeze, you need to be more careful about your hard drives ;-)
[07:13] <theCore> do you remember my little stupid brother ? (the one spamed #ubuntu and -offtopic). Now, because I lock my screen every time I quit my computer. He decide to shutdown to computer by removing the power cord.
[07:13] <LaserJock> ouch
[07:14] <theCore> yea
[07:14] <theCore> ouch
[07:14] <LaserJock> how old is he?
[07:14] <theCore> 16, I think
[07:15] <LaserJock> hmm, I would probably thoroughly thrash him.
[07:15] <theCore> I did ;)
[07:16] <LaserJock> Is he going to pay for a new hard drive?
[07:16] <theCore> the hard drive is okay
[07:17] <theCore> actually, it's my inode table that is scraped
[07:17] <LaserJock> ahh, what FS?
[07:17] <theCore> ext2
[07:17] <theCore> ext3
[07:18] <theCore> I'm trying to find a way to repair it manually, right now
[07:18] <LaserJock> hmm, seems odd. I've had ok luck with ext3 and power outages etc.
[07:20] <theCore> He did that, at least 5 times, this week. I had to left my computer open because I was compiling Seamonkey
[07:20] <LaserJock> ohhh, I would have been soooo upset.
[07:21] <theCore> I will get over it, at least my personals files haven't been too damaged
[07:22] <theCore> I lost one or two trival files
[07:23] <theCore> anyways, now I need to find a way to recover my files from my hd
[07:24] <theCore> I only got one cdrw, and its already used for the LiveCD,
[07:26] <theCore> I going to make a tarball and upload it to my gmail account
[07:26] <theCore> viva the 2GB storage
[07:26] <LaserJock> how big will the tarball be?
[07:27] <theCore> 200 MB
[07:27] <theCore> more or least
[07:27] <theCore> less*
[07:28] <theCore> It suck like backup technic, but at least its get to work done
[07:28] <LaserJock> oh, that's not too bad. My ~/ is about 1GB tarballed
[07:29] <theCore> mine too
[07:29] <theCore> but I stripping, all my "downloadables"
[07:29] <theCore> I'm*
[07:30] <robotgeek> hey theCore LaserJock
[07:30] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek
[07:30] <theCore> boujour rebotgeek
[07:31] <robotgeek> salut theCore
[07:31] <theCore> robotgeek, oh
[07:31] <robotgeek> theCore: i don't know french, but picked this up :)
[07:32] <theCore> yea, I thought so
[07:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I've picked up a little French and German from those crazy MOTUs :-)
[07:33] <theCore> lol
[07:34] <robotgeek> :)
[07:34] <robotgeek> damn, i really need to put this box out of it's "windows" misery. problem is, it's not my box :)
[07:34] <theCore> Cette phrase n'est pas faite pour tre comprise. :)
[07:35] <LaserJock> lol, I had to use babelfish on it ;-)
[07:35] <robotgeek> theCore: google translate of this sucks :)
[07:36] <LaserJock> robotgeek: babelfish.altavista.com is what I usually use.
[07:36] <theCore> I expected that
[07:36] <LaserJock> robotgeek: what did you get?
[07:37] <robotgeek> This sentence is not made to be included/understood :)
[07:37] <robotgeek> it's probably "meant"
[07:37] <LaserJock> same as babelfish
[07:37] <theCore> ( This sentence isn't meant to be understood )
[07:38] <theCore> I need a latin translator
[07:39] <robotgeek> theCore: that ways you could have "security by obsucrity" :)
[10:18] <robotgeek> learned ones, ping :)
[10:18] <Burgwork> robotgeek, hmm?
[10:20] <robotgeek> Burgwork: hmm, i was wondering what is better a) adept guide as a separate chapter in KDG b) or just link to it
[10:21] <robotgeek> with a) it would resemble the structure of Ubuntu DG
[10:22] <Burgwork> adept should be in a section called "Installation", not "Adept"
[10:22] <Burgwork> along with discussions of apt-get, etc.
[10:23] <robotgeek> true
[10:24] <robotgeek> i'll just put it in there for now, and talk with jjesse later


[01:00] <tgm4883> I just hacked together some scripts for auto rotating the display and touchscreen
[07:23] <rud0lf> i didn't nothing special in ubuntu and now space bar sometimes closes active window, without event prompt
[07:24] <rud0lf> it also opens current selected file in thunar which i think wasn't the case before
[07:24] <rud0lf> keyboard shortuct settings and windows manager settings are fine, no space bar there
[07:29] <rud0lf> i've found out it works like "excecute/use active element"
[07:29] <rud0lf> it didn't work like this before, it's quite annoying
[07:43] <rud0lf> it looks like space bar silent crashes or kills app, there's no confirmation dialog
[16:03] <tgm4883> Trying to switch another laptop from ubuntu-gnome to xubuntu 17.04 and I removed a bunch of stuff I shouldn't have apparently. Is there a way to reinstall all the xubuntu-desktop components? I tried "sudo apt install --reinstall --install-recommends --install-suggests xubuntu-desktop" and that didn't work
[16:05] <diogenes_> tgm4883, what exactly doesn't work or has been broken?
[16:09] <tgm4883> network-manager is gone, muliple display configuration is broken
[16:09] <tgm4883> Those are the 2 major things I'm looking at currently
[16:10] <diogenes_> tgm4883, go to settings > session and startup > applications autostart and look for network manager if it's checked to run on startup
[16:12] <tgm4883> diogenes_: network-manager is legit gone. I was apt removing gnome stuff checking if it was removing any xubuntu stuff in the process, which it doesn't
[16:12] <tgm4883> So I can add network-manager back in, I don't need network-manager-gnome correct?
[16:13] <diogenes_> tgm4883, it's not gnome it's xfce4 metwork-manager
[16:16] <diogenes_> tgm4883, run: nm-applet
[16:16] <diogenes_> and see if anything you get
[16:16] <tgm4883> Nope, not installed. Part of network-manager-gnome
[16:17] <diogenes_> then install the whole package
[16:17] <tgm4883> yea doing that now
[16:19] <diogenes_> then reboot after
[16:19] <tgm4883> diogenes_: ok, installed that, rebooted, NM is back. Multiple display config is still broken.
[16:20] <tgm4883> Basically, all I can get is mirror working. Can't separate them out
[16:20] <diogenes_> tgm4883, multiple displays settings I'm afraid is gone and you have to set them again
[16:21] <tgm4883> I have no issue doing the work, it is just that I can not actually unmirror them
[16:22] <diogenes_> I have very little experience with multiple monitors because I have never needed more than one so, can't help you with that issue.
[16:23] <tgm4883> diogenes_: thanks for your help
[16:23] <tgm4883> I'll keep messing with the multiple monitor stuff
[16:23] <diogenes_> tgm4883, no problem yw
[16:23] <diogenes_> tgm4883, you can read this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/multihead
[16:24] <diogenes_> maybe it will help
[16:27] <tgm4883> diogenes_: I just moved .local and .config rebooted and it's all working again. I'll have to do some setup, but that's no issue. Can you tell me what the default screensaver/lock screen is?
[16:28] <diogenes_> tgm4883, to my mind it's xscreesaver
[16:28] <diogenes_> look for .xscreensaver config folder
[16:31] <tgm4883> ok
[16:31] <tgm4883> it's xscreensaver that I have installed
[16:32] <diogenes_> yes, that is the screensaver
[20:48] <stain> is a pentium 2.00 ghz good for xubuntu
[20:49] <knome> does it support PAE?
[20:50] <stain> i dont know
[20:50] <xangua> A Pentium (what)?
[20:54] <stain> Pentium(R) CPU P6100
[20:55] <mrkramps> stain, it will do
[20:55] <knome> how much memory do you have?
[20:55] <stain> 4 gb
[20:55] <knome> then you should be fine
[20:55] <mrkramps> integraded intel gpu?
[20:55] <knome> and you can always try the livecd first
[20:55] <stain> yes
[20:56] <mrkramps> kk, should be no issue then
[20:56] <Unit193> According to https://ark.intel.com/products/50175/Intel-Pentium-Processor-P6100-3M-Cache-2_00-GHz, go 64bit.
[20:56] <mrkramps> !!
[20:56] <stain> im on 32 bit
[20:57] <mrkramps> cpu supports 64 bit, use a 64 bit system
[20:57] <stain> ok thanks
[22:49] <stain> is xubuntu good for programming??
[22:50] <David-A> stain: certainly yes
[22:51] <stain> thank david you have been very usefull
[22:51] <David-A> stain: almost all dev tools are available for almost all distros, so many other distros are also good for programming
[22:51] <stain> thanks
[22:52] <stain> bey


[16:22] <cmaloney> Good morning
[16:23] <Scary_Guy> greetings
[16:57] <waldo323> good almost noon
[16:58] <waldo323> except i think this support call will cause me to miss lunch


[05:50] <george_e> Where in the filesystem of a unit does Juju store the hook scripts?
[11:49] <hazmat> g'morning
[12:06] <noodles775> hazmat, m_3 : Hi! I'm currently using the latest postresql charm (r17), and it still used localhost: http://paste.ubuntu.com/745058/
[12:07] <noodles775> hazmat, m_3: But I've just realised that r17 of that charm didn't update the revision... retrying now after manually updating the rev (as I'm still using the same environment)
[12:07] <hazmat> noodles775, good catch
[12:09] <noodles775> And that was it indeed, it's getting the IP now. Thanks!
[12:12] <noodles775> So the only remaining issue for me seems to be that the postgresql charm uses the relationname as the db name (which psql doesn't like if it contains hyphens): http://paste.ubuntu.com/745066/
[12:23] <hazmat> noodles775, worth a bug against the charm, it should escape them
[12:24] <noodles775> hazmat: Will do now... thanks.
[12:29] <noodles775> hazmat: is this where bugs are now reported for charms? Or is there somewhere newer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm
[12:29] <hazmat> noodles775, each charm has its own bug tracker.. for postgresql its .. https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm/oneiric/+source/postgresql
[12:30] <noodles775> Great, thanks.
[12:30] <hazmat> noodles775,  the charm browser at charms.kapilt.com is useful for finding the relevant links
[13:02] <fwereade> hazmat, does test_full_run in the base agent test ring any bells for you?
[13:21] <hazmat> fwereade, its a test that actually launches the agent afaicr
[13:21] <hazmat> fwereade, is it breaking?
[13:22] <fwereade> hazmat, yeah, and while it's surely something I'm doing it seems I'llhave to start poking into twisted itself to figure it out
[13:22] <hazmat> fwereade, cause might be a missing env var/cli option
[13:22] <fwereade> hazmat, hm, yes, plausible
[13:23] <hazmat> fwereade, i'd try printing os.environ to a file from an early entry point (cli parse setup)
[13:24] <fwereade> hazmat, well in fact it's not technically *breaking*, but it is exiting the whole test run
[13:24] <hazmat> huh
[13:24]  * hazmat looks up the test
[13:27] <hazmat> fwereade, i don't see anything obvious, even a mismatched mock statement there shouldn't exit the tests, i'd pdb into run().. it doesn't look like it actually forks a process here just simulates the startup.
[13:28] <fwereade> hazmat, sounds good
[13:28] <fwereade> hazmat, (sorry vague, moved on to something else for a bit, will be back on that in a bit)
[13:29] <hazmat> fwereade, no worries
[13:45] <noodles775> hazmat: hi again. I created https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm/+source/postgresql/+bug/893088 , but atm am just trying to find a work-around...
[13:46] <noodles775> I've re-name my charm to apache_django_wsgi (both the directory and in the metadata), but get:
[13:46] <noodles775> Bad charm URL: http://paste.ubuntu.com/745120/
[13:46] <noodles775> Let me know if you've seen that before... /me keeps plugging away.
[13:47] <marcoceppi> The postgres charm should probably do a string replace on - with _
[13:48] <noodles775> marcoceppi: yep, or something similar that enforces db/user names psql is happy with (there could be other invalid chars?). But atm, I just want to get my own charm working :)
[13:48] <hazmat> its this file that needs a mod http://charms.kapilt.com/charms/oneiric/postgresql/hooks/common.sh
[13:48] <marcoceppi> Yeah, sanitation would probably need to take place in all the db charms
[13:49] <hazmat> noodles775, most of the other invalids are done just by restrictions on the charm/service name
[13:49] <hazmat> which juju handles
[13:49] <noodles775> hazmat: yep, which is how I'm trying to work-around the issue atm (my charm name), but am getting Bad charm URL... digging now.
[13:51]  * noodles775 removed both '-'s and '_'s... now it's accepting it.
[14:37] <hazmat> noodles775, committed a fix upstream
[14:37] <hazmat> postgres charm escapes dashes now
[14:38] <noodles775> hazmat: sweet, thanks - I'll rename my charm again so it's readable :)
[15:37] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: regarding the passing of config on deploy, I think you *should* be able to say --set 'x=y z=foo' .. but you can't right now. Maybe open a bug?
[15:38] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: Cool, I'll do that and see if I can create a patch for it
[15:50] <jcastro> marcoceppi: have you seen george? Last I checked he was mostly there but stuck on a juju problem
[15:50] <SpamapS> hazmat: is there any reason we aren't using the DescribeRegions AWS API call instead of a static list of regions?
[15:51] <hazmat> SpamapS, txaws doesn't support, and schema def is static thing atm, we could fix both, but its been low priority
[15:58] <SpamapS> hazmat: ok I'll open a low priority bug against both. Just making sure its possible/makes sense.
[15:59] <hazmat> SpamapS, i'm not sure it does make sense
[15:59] <SpamapS> hazmat: I tried using txaws-discover --action DescribeRegions and it fails because of key problems. Is txaws using an outdated API or something?
[15:59] <jimbaker> not certain why we don't just use boto + deferToThread
[16:00] <SpamapS> jimbaker: +++++
[16:00] <hazmat> jimbaker, indeed, or libcloud
[16:00] <SpamapS> ;)
[16:00] <hazmat> SpamapS, the schema is defined to validate environments.yaml, but we need to consult the environments.yaml to make the describe regions call...
[16:01] <jimbaker> cool, this is widely used. see for example some of the openstack tests. etc
[16:01] <SpamapS> hazmat: so make sure it is formatted right, and trust that the user isn't an idiot. :)
[16:01] <hazmat> easy enough to do a second pass at the cost of a roundtrip
[16:01] <SpamapS> if they put in us-beast-1 its ok.. right? ;)
[16:01] <SpamapS> they'll get a failure on bootstrap
[16:02] <marcoceppi> jcastro: I was talking to him last night for a bit
[16:02] <marcoceppi> but then he went to bed
[16:03] <hazmat> SpamapS, fair enough, we can yank that part of the schema
[16:03] <SpamapS> I'm getting more and more worried about these juju set* commands ... without a way to export the env.. we're making it really hard to reproduce environments.
[16:03] <SpamapS> hazmat: we can just make it verify that its a valid hostname (starts with a letter, [0-9-]+) right?
[16:03] <hazmat> SpamapS,  marcoceppi, you can pass a config file at deploy time
[16:04] <hazmat> SpamapS, sounds good
[16:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: convenience feature though, would be nice to be able to have one command that does the deploy and set's without having to write a config file out.
[16:04] <SpamapS> hazmat: I can see that being an important part of an autoscaler actually
[16:05] <hazmat> jimbaker, i'm pretty convinced of the utility of doing a provider like that, we really need to stop concerning ourselves with twisted bindings to the world
[16:05] <hazmat> and just interact with the world
[16:05] <SpamapS> "when my database gets 10,000 shards, deploy a new one with this shard hash value"
[16:05] <SpamapS> hazmat: you would make the rackspace guys *VERY* happy :)
[16:05] <hazmat> SpamapS, i think an autoscaler can figure out how to write a file ;-)
[16:06] <m_3> noodles775: just catching up with the conversation... is that stack happy with '-'s and '_'s in the charm names now?
[16:06] <SpamapS> hazmat: mtaylor has been asking me "why not libcloud" for a while now. :)
[16:07] <hazmat> SpamapS, the answer was for a while that it didn't have support what we needed, but i had a look again last month, and it does seem to support the basics of everything we'd want
[16:07] <hazmat> the sshscriptdeploy stuff in particular to trigger initialization of the instance
[16:07] <noodles775> m_3: I haven't yet tried as I'd re-named my charm, but will do so tomorrow. Looking at the change, I expect it to work :)
[16:10] <m_3> noodles775: cool.. I'll spin it up with various names today
[16:15] <marcoceppi> SpamapS hazmat I agree, being able to say juju deploy --config="game=tf2" steam is a lot more convenient than having to create a config file :)
[16:15]  * marcoceppi is lazy
[16:15] <jimbaker> hazmat, agreed on that. we saw that w/ lxc support by the local provider for example, also a pragmatic usage
[16:15]  * marcoceppi s/--config/--set/
[16:23] <SpamapS> hazmat: sweeeeet (re libcloud)
[16:24]  * hazmat grabs some food
[16:24] <_mup_> Bug #893176 was filed: do not limit ec2 region to static list of regions <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893176 >
[16:32] <_mup_> Bug #893184 was filed: Deploy should allow for a "config set" flag <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893184 >
[16:33] <jcastro> SpamapS: soon I will be confident enough to file bugs like that instead of asking you if ideas are dumb before hand. :)
[16:33] <SpamapS> jcastro: indeed, thanks for the nudge. :-D
[16:34] <SpamapS> jcastro: I was thinking the same thing but didn't actually validate my assumptions until you asked. :)
[16:34] <SpamapS> jcastro: so please, feel free to continue asking "dumb" questions.
[16:40]  * m_3 hopes SpamapS never tires of answering our dumb questions :)
[16:55]  * SpamapS hopes google never tires of making him look smarter than he is
[16:55] <jimbaker> hazmat, looking at libcloud's support for providers, yes that would be very nice: http://libcloud.apache.org/supported_providers.html - no way would we want to do each of these
[16:55] <jimbaker> i do assume that http://libcloud.apache.org/driver-features.html#deploy means the same thing as cloud-init ?
[16:56] <SpamapS> gogrid and linode.. nice
[16:56] <jimbaker> maybe the best thing to do is to support libcloud as a new provider
[16:56] <hazmat> jimbaker, basically... we'd either format cloud-init as a script, or transfer and invoke cloud init remotely
[16:57] <SpamapS> hazmat: seems like it would be worthwhile to work in an extension to libcloud to support cloud-init directly.
[16:57] <SpamapS> hazmat: or at least, metadata/userdata directly.
[16:57] <jimbaker> SpamapS, that makes a lot of sense
[16:57] <SpamapS> the world would probably thank us for that.
[16:58] <hazmat> SpamapS, all we really need to support it is remote ssh
[16:58] <SpamapS> (and it would also have the nice effect of making Ubuntu a preferred platform for libcloud users)
[16:58] <hazmat> true
[16:59] <SpamapS> hazmat: heh.. an ssh usurper provider has been on my list of things to hack out for a while.. just feed it a list of boxes and it will ssh in and run the agent. ;)
[17:00] <jimbaker> SpamapS, sure, you handle the provisioning with say capistrano, seems feasible
[17:03] <jimbaker> anyway, i think it would be nice if we got a bug in for a libcloud provider. i would like to work on it myself. the only thing i see missing here  in libcloud is firewall support, but it's a good reason to machine-based firewalls instead
[17:09] <_mup_> Bug #893204 was filed: Support libcloud provider <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893204 >
[17:10] <jimbaker> SpamapS, i filed this so we can track and see if this makes sense. seems like the consensus here is that it does
[17:11] <SpamapS> jimbaker: yes, I'm going to mark it as Confirmed and Wishlist. Once we've got a handle on it, we may need to break it up into a blueprint.
[17:12] <SpamapS> jimbaker: seems like a good thing to start on as soon as the 12.04 stabilization/prod work is done.
[17:15] <SpamapS> speaking of that, how is the "subordinate services" work coming?
[17:17] <jimbaker> is bcsaller out this week? (the best person to ask here)
[17:51] <hazmat> jimbaker, not per the team calendar
[17:51] <hazmat> but the person who maintains the calendar is out.. so who knows.
[18:06] <hazmat> he'll be on shortly, just did a meeting with him re co-lcoation
[18:08] <hazmat> jimbaker, ping?
[18:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: I thought of some charms that need to be available as both subordinate and regular services.. so I'm wondering if that will throw a wrench into the spec
[18:31] <SpamapS> hazmat: like NFS server.. you want to be able to expose the data dir of a service via NFS.
[18:31] <SpamapS> bcsaller: ^^
[18:32] <bcsaller> SpamapS: You can define normal relationships from subordinate service outside of the container
[18:33] <bcsaller> SpamapS: its only the relationship with the principal service that is special
[18:34] <bcsaller> SpamapS: and so in that sense it is both a subordinate service (to the prinicpal) and a normal charm to anyone else
[18:35] <hazmat> SpamapS, i tend to think of most of the coordinate services as a head / tail er.. server / client.. where we deploy the clients in co-located fashion, and relate them to the server, this holds for logging, distributed fs, monitoring, etc.
[18:35] <hazmat> hmm
[18:36] <hazmat> so in that case expose the data-dir of a service via nfs.. is deploy an nfs-client, that has a relation to the primary that setups the data-dir as an nfs mount.
[18:37] <hazmat> so its not per se exporting data per se as a separate volume nfs style, just using an existing mounted volume for the storage
[18:54] <SpamapS> So another scenario is ceph.. the ceph charm operates as both the client and server for ceph
[18:55] <SpamapS> it would be useful to make the ceph client a subordinate of a service that wants to store data in ceph
[19:00] <bcsaller> SpamapS: that sounds correct, I don't see an issue though?
[19:01] <SpamapS> Ok at one point I got the impression that we couldn't subordinate normal charms.
[19:16] <bcsaller> SpamapS: the client would be a subordinate charm with a normal relationship to the master
[19:16] <bcsaller> and a subordinate relation to its principal service
[19:23] <SpamapS> ceph is a normal charm, and works as a client or server
[19:24] <SpamapS> so I could add a subordinate relation to ceph so it can talk to the.. I don't know the term.. other service in the container?
[19:24]  * SpamapS re-reads the spec
[19:28] <marcoceppi> How can I test juju from the repo?
[19:28] <marcoceppi> from the bzr repo?
[19:31] <bcsaller> SpamapS: yes, a subordinate relation is what you'd need there. I think that is all you'd need to define but I'll keep playing with the use-case
[19:34] <bcsaller> SpamapS: we had a top level subordinate:true in the metadata, I've taken that out and it only depends on changing the interface now
[19:35] <jimbaker> hazmat, hi
[19:36] <hazmat> marcoceppi, bzr branch lp:juju && cd ./bin/juju -h
[19:36] <hazmat> marcoceppi, the ppa is rebuilt daily, if you have a package install of juju, it might be good to remove it to avoid any version confusion
[19:37] <marcoceppi> hazmat: thanks, I'm just trying to test this patch I've made
[19:39] <SpamapS> bcsaller: ahh cool! ok
[19:40] <jimbaker> hazmat, thanks for the approval on ssh passthrough. i will write up the new juju scp command shortly, as well as my thoughts on bug 814974
[19:40] <_mup_> Bug #814974: config options need a "file" type <juju:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814974 >
[19:40] <jimbaker> biab, time for lunch
[19:40] <hazmat> jimbaker, great, i wanted to touch base on what's next, but i'll finish up reviews on your branches first
[19:41] <jimbaker> hazmat, i think i'll take a look at the ssh key stuff
[19:41] <hazmat> jimbaker, cool
[19:41] <jimbaker> that's an important prod issue
[19:41] <jimbaker> hazmat, cool
[19:44] <_mup_> Bug #893281 was filed: Subordinate services require topology support <juju:New for bcsaller> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893281 >
[19:58] <_mup_> juju/session-expiration r409 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:58] <_mup_> add session expiration documentation
[19:58] <_mup_> juju/session-expiration r410 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:58] <_mup_> merge trunk
[20:54] <hazmat> sidnei, did your ssd get resurrected?
[20:55] <sidnei> hazmat, haven't had much time to play with it unfortunately. seems like it's a known issue with sandforce-based drives, and a firmware upgrade might solve it.
[20:57] <sidnei> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sandforce+cold+start+bug
[20:57] <hazmat> sidnei, ic.. good luck with that.. i'm hopeful sandforce controllers will be getting better ootb now that they have much larger testing resources since they got acquired.. just got a new ssd myself (samsung) like 10m ago, tbd
[21:00] <hazmat> sidnei, hm.. that's interesting.. i was putting together a nas with my old ocz sandforce drive (won't fit in new laptop).. and noticed it wasn't being picked up the bios, what was odd though is the ubuntu partioner could see the drive.. this might be relevant.. although i'm not convinced its not a mb bios issue
[21:01] <sidnei> yeah, if the partitioner triggers a pci rescan or something, it might get the drive to initialize properly
[21:14] <jcastro> this is why I am intel only. :)
[21:17] <marcoceppi> I think I'm going to stick to making charms, and leave juju in the capable hands of those who know
[21:21] <_mup_> Bug #893332 was filed: Watches are needed for changes to subordinate services <juju:In Progress by bcsaller> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893332 >
[21:23] <jcastro> marcoceppi: the charms are the best part anyway, for the rest we can just whine
[21:57] <jcastro> hey guys, what's best practice for SMTP?
[21:57] <jcastro> there's no mail charm
[21:58] <jcastro> and I assume on EC2 they just don't allow port 25 or any of that do they? Don't they have like an email API or something instead?
[21:59] <jcastro> but if you use the amazon simple email service then the charm becomes aws specific ...
[22:20] <marcoceppi> You can mail out of port 25, bulk stuff you need to fill out a request
[23:13] <m_3> hazmat: is charm.log going away in favor of a combined unit-agent log in /var/log/juju?
[23:16] <m_3> (charm.log is there in EC2, but missing in LXC)
[23:19] <_mup_> Bug #893379 was filed: inconsistent logging between different providers <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/893379 >


[11:54] <_marx_> who remembers ~/.xinitrc ?
[11:55]  * _marx_ just found one from '04
[12:45] <_marx_> dang i made good backup tarballs; found images that had to be scanned
[13:19] <_marx_> my 11 year old grandson is going to love seeing his baby pics on facebook ;-))


[22:30] <aaa> just updated to 11.10, and lost the menus on the top (applications, locations, system). how do i get it back?
[22:30] <VNC-Server-user> Anyone by any chance now why OpenOffice got replaced with libre?
[22:30] <VNC-Server-user> That app was so mach simple to find the common office tasks in.
[22:30] <reisio> VNC-Server-user: oracle bought it, and they suck
[22:30] <VNC-Server-user> In Libre, I'm lost.
[22:30] <reisio> VNC-Server-user: it should be mostly the same
[22:30] <graingert> VNC-Server-user: it's the same
[22:30] <graingert> VNC-Server-user: it's basically the same code with a different name
[22:31] <VNC-Server-user> graingert: Not the default stuff, my friend and I couldn't find how to change font color on the fly.
[22:31] <graingert> VNC-Server-user: it's not like it's got a ribbon or anything
[22:31] <VNC-Server-user> And I did found it, but it's not -simple-
[22:31] <aaa> anyone on?
[22:31] <VNC-Server-user> Like Open Office.
[22:31] <graingert> VNC-Server-user: erm that's probably because you moved it
[22:31] <Der_Tiger> aaa, I believe on the logon screen.  You can choose the GNOME style to classic.
[22:31] <graingert> it's in the same place for me
[22:31] <Der_Tiger> I don't know if that changed.
[22:31] <VNC-Server-user> graingert: No, this is live CD, I do not even have this installed.
[22:32] <aaa> NVM, i'll try again later
[22:32] <graingert> fresh install
[22:32] <graingert> and I can see it
[22:32] <graingert> 3rd button from the right
[22:32] <alien__> is there a application that dim my light,is not working on keyboard or anywhere else on the system
[22:33] <graingert> VNC-Server-user: it's on the "Formatting" Toolbar
[22:33] <odin_> what is the best channel to discusss package management in ubuntu ?  i.e. issues concerning packaging
[22:33] <blackbuntu> how can i tell find to ignore upper or lower cases
[22:34] <odin_> blackbuntu, what is your current command line ?
[22:34] <blackbuntu> say i want to find *.txt  how can i also find *.TXT  or tXt etc
[22:34] <odin_> blackbuntu, find . -iname "*.txt"
[22:34] <blackbuntu> gnome terminal
[22:34] <blackbuntu> but how can i make it not care weither its upper or lower case odin
[22:35] <odin_> find as in /usr/bin/find ?
[22:35] <blackbuntu> yes that is correct odin
[22:35] <haylo-bot> i think that linu is always case sensitive but i may be wrong here
[22:35] <odin_> there is -name and -iname, -path and -ipath
[22:36] <odin_> blackbuntu, find . -iname "*.txt"
[22:36] <qin> blackbuntu: man find | less -p -iname
[22:36] <VNC-Server-user> graingert: But I do not see how it can be easy for a window's user to simply pick out a font color. (Seriously. C'mon)
[22:36] <blackbuntu> odin so find . -iname ".txt" will help find all .txt weither its upper or lower case correct?
[22:36] <odin_> blackbuntu, yes from the current directory and below
[22:37] <blackbuntu> perfect odin..how can i find certain words within a man page...say i wanted to find the words -iname in the man page how can i do that..my guess is using grep but how could u go about that
[22:38] <odin_> blackbuntu, mean how to use "less" and read "man less"
[22:39] <odin_> blackbuntu, basic search is started with a "/" key and type in part of the match press return, so "/iname<return>"
[22:39] <choel> blackbuntu, man nano | grep duck
[22:40] <brontosaurusrex> and "apropos duck" to search all mans
[22:41] <blackbuntu> odin aaahh excellent /iname worked great..how long have u been using linux for?
[22:41] <brontosaurusrex> there is no duck btw
[22:41] <choel> brontosaurusrex, sure it is.
[22:41] <blackbuntu> choel that was ok but it didnt really do what i expected
[22:41] <brontosaurusrex> not here
[22:41] <devlin> So! I finally got my Ubuntu installed on my HP Pavilion g6.  :D
[22:42] <odin_> blackbuntu, 18 years
[22:42] <sanduz2> does anyone know how to check what version of GTK is currently running? im on 11.10
[22:42] <blackbuntu> do u work with linux or computers?
[22:42] <blackbuntu> odin do u work with linux or computers?
[22:42] <devlin> Was having problems installing Oneiric on my laptop here so I went back and installed Natty and it installed & ran perfectly. (Currently running Natty and installing the proprietary drivers I need)
[22:43] <devlin> Should have no problem upgrading to 11.10 after the drivers are installed right?
[22:43] <choel> blackbuntu, just glad ju got the answer you looked for by odin_
[22:43] <soreau> sanduz2: Try something like 'dpkg -l|grep gtk2' to view installed gtk2 packages
[22:44] <sanduz2> soreau, i thought ubuntu 11.10 with unity ran on gtk3?
[22:44] <blackbuntu> choel thanks
[22:45] <sanduz2> can someone tell me if Ubuntu 11.10 default runs Gtk 2 or Gtk 3?
[22:45] <blackbuntu> anyone knows a good chat where one coudl talk about network securities at will
[22:46] <sanduz2> why is this room so dead?
[22:46] <soreau> sanduz2: grep it for gtk3 then
[22:46] <alien__> backlight not dimming,,is there a driver or something for that,is the only issue stoping me from installing ubuntu to my HD
[22:46] <reisio> sanduz2: the virus
[22:46] <sanduz2> soreau, now im confused though. i dont know if its running gtk 2 or 3? :P
[22:46] <blackbuntu> what is a symbolic link
[22:47] <soreau> sanduz2: Try dpkg -l|egrep "gtk2|gtk3"
[22:47] <sanduz2> soreau, looks like i have packages for both
[22:49] <vevais> hello
[22:49] <vevais> Is there any way to keep my alsamixer-settings?
[22:49] <vevais> Because the mic-boost jumps up and down while talking
[22:50] <kill_joy> hello all
[22:50] <soreau> sanduz2: yep, looks like libgtk 2 and 3 packages are available
[22:50] <sanduz2> weird
[22:50] <soreau> sanduz2: try grepping for libgtk
[22:50] <sanduz2> k
[22:51] <sanduz2> both again lol
[22:51] <lolwut> Has anyone had any trouble with the network manager in 11.10? I can't get it to work properly. Upon login I have no network connection and the only way I can get it to work is to ifdown then ifup the interface. Once I have my wireless card up I have Internet access but the network manage still says "device not ready"
[22:51] <tomodachi> what are these nvidia-post release updates i find in the additional drivers menu?
[22:51] <hal> does anyone have any recommendations of a good image viewer that I could try, please, to replace eye of gnome?
[22:52] <kill_joy> Does anybody know what this means?   sudo ngrep -wi -d any 'user|password' port 80  <---- seems like someone was trying to get my password..?
[22:52] <reisio> hal: gnome-sushi?
[22:52] <nes|>  /part
[22:53] <hal> reisio: something in the repos would be good
[22:53] <reisio> is
[22:53] <hal> reisio: I mean would be preferable
[22:53] <kill_joy> I thought that gnome-sushi was just to preview files
[22:53] <hal> kill_joy: that's what I want - what additional functionality do you mean?
[22:54] <kill_joy> I thought you were looking for something more along the lines of F-spot
[22:55] <hal> kill_joy: no, just something like eye of gnome, but preferably faster, better interface and...that works properly on my system ;)
[22:55] <kill_joy> Oh, I misunderstood
[22:56] <hal> kill_joy: I have trouble with eye of gnome - if one image is already open when you open an image, it opens the image but you can't see it - it just gives a gray area
[22:57] <qin> kill_joy: Where did you get those ngrep command?
[22:57] <kill_joy> btw.... do you (hal) know what "sudo ngrep -wi -d any 'user|password' port 80" would be doing in my bash history?  I'm the only one lives here.  It's creepy
[22:57] <White--> Does chrome for linux not have flash support built-in?
[22:57] <graingert> tomodachi: they are beta versions
[22:57] <graingert> tomodachi: it's best not to bother with them and go for the recommended release version
[22:57] <smw> White--, I believe it does
[22:57] <graingert> unless there is a particular support
[22:57] <robin0800> White--, only the 32bit one
[22:57] <kill_joy> I scanned for rootkits and worm/trojans and found nothing.... and my system is running fine
[22:57] <graingert> White--: it does not, as that would be bad
[22:58] <smw> graingert, are you sure?
[22:58] <qin> kill_joy: If you have "alien" command in own bash history, you are already owned.
[22:58] <kill_joy> alien?  I will check
[22:58] <graingert> White--: install flashplugin-installer
[22:58] <smw> graingert, can you point me to docs that say that?
[22:58] <hal> kill_joy: yes I would tend to agree with qin  - how else could it get there
[22:58] <qin> kill_joy: alien means not typed by you
[22:58] <graingert> smw: the version for windows includes flash
[22:58] <Ober> so if I run the default ubuntu wm from gdm the resolution auto-adjusts. however on other window managers xrandr does not list the max resolution at all. is there some command that can be run from gnome to effect the same thing?
[22:58] <tomodachi> graingert: thanks for the tip! (but to late now ;) we will see after the reboot!
[22:59] <White--> graingert, thanks, hat the other flash package installed but that didnt actually hook into it
[22:59] <smw> graingert, as does the one for mac... are you sure it does not have it for linux?
[22:59] <robin0800> graingert, the confusion is 32bit does and 64bit doesn't
[22:59] <ben_q> hey there, is there something newer than "aften" to create ac3 streams from wav-files?
[22:59] <smw> robin0800, ah
[22:59] <kill_joy> oh ok...so, it would have to have alien before the command?
[22:59] <graingert> White--: that one will be the old 32bit 10 one
[23:00] <graingert> White--: apt://flashplugin-installer will install the 11 64bit one
[23:00] <qin> kill_joy: No, alien ment - not typed by you!
[23:00] <omni_> Can anyone tell me the default expiration for users in PAM? (how many days until the user is required to change their password)
[23:00] <qin> kill_joy: btw, ngrep need root to run...
[23:00] <smw> omni_, never
[23:01] <kill_joy> strange..... I never typed that and it's there.   I'm almost scared to keep my internet up.
[23:01] <qin> kill_joy: Reinstall
[23:01] <omni_> smw, thought that might be the case, thank you.
[23:01] <kill_joy> yeah, I guess you're right
[23:02] <robin0800> graingert, I found it easier to go to adobe site and after you selct it it opens in the software centre
[23:02] <omni_> smw, by chance do you know the command to change that to expire in 90 days?
[23:02] <kill_joy> I didn't want to go to that extreme, but I guess you can't be too cautious.
[23:02] <smw> omni_, probably a config file, not a cmd. And I think it is set per user...
[23:03] <qin> kill_joy: What services do you run? ssh ftp www?
[23:03] <smw> omni_, I am guessing the ubuntu user management gui can handle it
[23:03] <kill_joy> regular old www
[23:03] <omni_> smw, we have a few users and i was hoping to do a global change instead of one at a time :\ i'll keep looking ty tho.
[23:03] <kill_joy> I just decided to type "history" into the terminal for shitz and saw a bunch of strange things.
[23:03] <qin> kill_joy: If you want, drop your logs, so maybe we can figure if and when it happened.
[23:04] <White--> cool graingert, worked :) thanks
[23:04] <kill_joy> ok, qin.... where to drop them?
[23:06] <qin> kill_joy: paste.ubuntu.com, or mail to me, also: history; w; sudo netstat -tulp; ps aux;
[23:06] <kill_joy> ok
[23:06] <White--> When I want to gedit a file as root, is there a good way to tell gedit to ask me for sudo password and open the file as root?
[23:07] <qin> kill_joy: And: lastlog;
[23:07] <reisio> White--: I suggest learning how to use a terminal based editor for such tasks
[23:07] <kill_joy> ok
[23:07] <reisio> nano, vim, etc.
[23:07] <itaylor57> White--,  gksudo gedit
[23:08] <qin> White--: gksudo gedit (but: sudo vim is more noble way to do it)
[23:08] <White--> k thanks guys :)
[23:08] <SetiAmon> anyone have a issue with dual monitors in gnome3-shell ?
[23:08] <SetiAmon> like i open firefox and it moves it to my secondary monitor(even though it opens on my primary monitor)
[23:08] <itaylor57> qin, sudo vi is more manly
[23:08] <reisio> and sudo vim is more sanely
[23:09] <qin> itaylor57: Well.
[23:09] <SetiAmon> oh btw yarbause sound doesn't work,anyone use yarbause
[23:09] <itaylor57> qin, I meant more nerdy
[23:11] <Markus__> hi
[23:11] <alien__> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor splash"
[23:12] <alien__> the line where it says vendor,,do i have to put my model,or what ?  thats a fix for my backlicht,,is not working,im looking fofr a fix
[23:12] <SetiAmon> anyone run Yarbause or emulators in linux
[23:13] <reisio> yarbause?
[23:14] <escott> alien__, probably
[23:14] <soreau> reisio: apparently a sega saturn emulator
[23:14] <soreau> ! anyone | SetiAmon
[23:14] <xo0t> I have a lot of logs. I'm wondering if it's safe to just rm -rf * all of /var/log without breaking anything..?
[23:15] <escott> xo0t, you should be adding your logs to logrotate.d
[23:15] <reisio> oh?
[23:15] <reisio> echo the dolphin? :p
[23:15] <reisio> or was that genesis
[23:15] <reisio> codenames ftl
[23:15] <FloodBot1> reisio: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:15] <reisio> FloodBot1: please die :p
[23:15] <soreau> heh
[23:16] <qin> xo0t: rsyslog and logrotate is better
[23:16] <alien__> escott, what command do i run so i can copy the vendor info,,i dont want to mess up
[23:17] <escott> alien__, you should be looking at things like lspci and lshw to try and identify your hardware. usually there will be documentation files with the kernel that will say what strings can be put in for "vendor" in the kernels backlight option
[23:18] <Markus__> how do i make a porn website?
[23:18] <LedHed> lol
[23:18] <soreau> ! ot | Markus__
[23:18] <LedHed> take a video camera and point it at a college coed
[23:18] <LedHed> oops
[23:18] <reisio> Markus__: Pornbuntu
[23:19] <blackhats> ./bye
[23:19] <Markus__> what
[23:19] <LedHed> is there a way to blink a drive light on a failed MD drive?
[23:20] <graingert> Markus__: try wholesailers
[23:20] <Markus__> how do you get rid of an hdd passowrd?
[23:20] <graingert> Markus__: depends on the hard drive
[23:20] <kill_joy> so, qin... as you can see ... there's not much there (upon further review) but I still didn't type the commands.
[23:20] <graingert> and if you know the password
[23:20] <alien__> escott, can i pastebin that to u ? im kind of real lost,,if you can of course
[23:20] <graingert> alien__: go fer it
[23:21] <graingert> ubuntupaste is better though
[23:21] <alien__> how do i use ubuntupaste
[23:21] <Markus__> @graingert i know the password
[23:21] <Markus__> its a normal toshiba one
[23:22] <escott> alien__, what link are you following that is telling you to use this backlight=vendor option. that should have more specifics about what can be put there
[23:22] <graingert> Markus__: my client does not highlight @graingert
[23:22] <Markus__> alright
[23:22] <graingert> alien__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[23:22] <Markus__> but i need to remove that stupid thing
[23:22] <alien__> http://pastebin.com/Y8XTqfFC
[23:22] <graingert> Markus__: that's probably a question for toshiba
[23:22] <kill_joy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/719276/
[23:22] <Markus__> #toshiba ?
[23:23] <graingert> Markus__: no as in their own support contact
[23:23] <Markus__> nah
[23:23] <Markus__> 700 dollars they want
[23:23] <Markus__> ~julius
[23:23] <alien__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/719279/
[23:24] <bkfitz> ..
[23:24] <graingert> alien__: oh backlight=vendor is a fix I have to apply to my laptop
[23:24] <graingert> alien__: what's the device?
[23:24] <graingert> mine is an eee 1015PE
[23:25] <alien__> i have a gateway M-Series
[23:25] <symaxian> How do you disable nautilus from drawing the background in oneiric
[23:25] <graingert> alien__: do you know where to make the effort
[23:25] <graingert> change*
[23:26] <alien__> escott, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Netbooks#Gateway_LT2005u
[23:27] <Fudge> hi im trying to find on cdimages.ubuntu.com a x86 cd image of ubuntu 10.04.2, not 10.04.2, anyone know if its provided?
[23:27] <sgflt> can anyone tell me whether it is possible to switch off a discrete GPU (nvidia card) and only use the IGP (like intel's sandy bridge integrated graphics)?
[23:28] <yagoo> Fudge, re-question yourself.
[23:28] <Shane_AU> howdy
[23:28]  * yagoo "x86 cd image of ubuntu 10.04.2, not 10.04.2"
[23:28] <escott> alien__, its just "vendor" nothing specific https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kernel/Debugging/Backlight
[23:28] <yagoo> ^.
[23:28] <yagoo> parse error.
[23:28] <japro> hi, what would be the easiest way to make a video file from a crapton of numbered jpegs?
[23:29] <escott> alien__, it just says "ignore the bios claiming it can talk to the backlight and talk directly to it"
[23:29] <graingert> japro: mplayer has a solution for this
[23:29] <reisio> Fudge: http://www.google.com/search?q="ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso"
[23:29] <sgflt> japro, from my experience, there isn't an easy way. mencoder might do what you want though
[23:29] <escott> sgflt, bumblee vgaswitcheroo
[23:29] <graingert> japro: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/menc-feat-enc-images.html
[23:30] <alien__> escott, but does it fix de dimming,im willing to try anything at this point before i go blind  :)
[23:30] <graingert> japro: they will need to be in ls order
[23:30] <graingert> japro: or use a text file to say the list
[23:30] <escott> alien__, i dont know how it will work on your system. you can try it and see.
[23:31] <alien__> escott, so the vendor part stays like that,,no changes to the line
[23:31] <Fudge> reisio  thats the ticket thanx heaps, didnt think to use the full name
[23:31] <sgflt> escott, does that require specific features from the GPU? it mentions notebooks. i can't test it at all, because i haven't ordered the system yet. i am also going for the low-hanging fruit, i simply want it shut off, as i'll only be using the card on windows for gaming.
[23:31] <reisio> Fudge: cheating ftw
[23:32] <sgflt> escott, i've found some notes via google on how to disable hardware through sysfs though
[23:32] <escott> alien__, thats how i read it
[23:32] <alien__> escott, i install it on a USB,im on it now,,just for safe fix the issue,not live,,i dont mind a mistake
[23:32] <alien__> tahnks
[23:32] <graingert> sgflt: try it on a live cd
[23:32] <graingert> sgflt: in PC world
[23:33] <graingert> sgflt: they are often cool with that
[23:33] <escott> sgflt, for a desktop system it should be easier, as there isn't much integration. it should just be a matter of hooking up to the video cards ports not the motherboards. worst case i suspect you need to hand configure your xorg.conf
[23:33] <sgflt> graingert, no brick-and-mortar stores around here, i think, that'd have that kind of setup available
[23:33] <graingert> sgflt: hmm
[23:33] <sgflt> escott, that's what i'm thinking/hoping as well
[23:34] <graingert> sgflt: you might want to wait for Windows 8 if you are getting a new system
[23:34] <graingert> unless you _really_ need it
[23:34]  * yagoo thinks graingert is trolling " sgflt: you might want to wait for Windows 8 if you are getting a new system"
[23:34] <sgflt> graingert, windows 7 plays my games just fine though and i want to yesterday :P. but what makes the wait worth it (i get free windows licenses through the university btw)
[23:34] <yagoo> Windows 8 is being recommended here? why not get lost graingert?
[23:34] <graingert> sgflt: go for it then
[23:34] <sgflt> yagoo, he'll recommend fedora next =)
[23:35] <reisio> sgflt: the university you pay to attend?
[23:35] <sgflt> graingert, no offense, just kidding =)
[23:35] <japro> graingert, thank you, that worked perfectly
[23:35] <graingert> yagoo: he said he wanted windows
[23:35] <sgflt> reisio, in germany, there's no tuition. well almost none =)
[23:35] <reisio> I bet your tuition/room/board/etc. is somewhat more costly than $150
[23:35] <yagoo> graingert, then you tell them to leave
[23:35] <graingert> yagoo: stop being a troll and start being helpful
[23:35] <sgflt> reisio, it's "sponsored" (because it's expensive to hand out those licenses, you know), but mainly for CS students. apparently, they want them to get hooked on windows
[23:35] <reisio> sgflt: because when you pay taxes you pay tuition
[23:36] <graingert> sgflt: do you get "free" electricity
[23:36] <reisio> yeah
[23:36] <yagoo> graingert, if you want to be HELPFUL-- at least convince people to SWITCH.
[23:36] <yagoo> ignoramus
[23:36] <reisio> so basically German taxes pay Microsoft, awesome
[23:36] <sgflt> reisio, i don't think the university pays for the MSDN AA
[23:36] <reisio> sgflt: somebody does
[23:38] <sgflt> reisio, why does someone need to pay for it?
[23:38] <texas> Hey yall i need some help with my broadcom wireless card
[23:38] <texas> anyone game
[23:38] <reisio> sgflt: because Microsoft doesn't give it away for free
[23:38] <sgflt> reisio, why wouldn't they give it free to CS students at a university? seems like a pretty good investment to me
[23:39] <BaY_GeVeZe> Ben En Ýyisi Ýngilizce'yi Burada Öðreneyim (:
[23:39] <Fudge> lol
[23:39] <reisio> sgflt: because universities are willing to pay for it
[23:39] <reisio> sgflt: and they do
[23:39] <texas> ive checked the forums and cant find anyhting to fix my driver issue
[23:40] <sgflt> reisio, sorry, i'm lost you somewhere. i'm not sure if your argument is a political one or if you're trying to troll me =)
[23:40] <reisio> it's not an argument
[23:40] <yagoo> sgflt, installing games on linux is becoming as simple as a mouse click-- stfu and install ubuntu- u resize ntfs partition with installer and installer will have grub2 do dualboot install
[23:40] <reisio> someone pays for your msdnaa
[23:40] <reisio> if it's not the university, it's the government
[23:40] <reisio> (by way of taxes)
[23:40] <Poeir> My 11.10 upgrade did not go smoothly, so I reinstalled from scratch.  Every time I try to log in via the GUI with my main user account, the screen switches to the init output, then bounces me back to the GUI login.  When I login with an alt account, I can, and my main account can login from the console.  How hsould I go about fixing this?
[23:41] <sgflt> my god :P
[23:41] <nuggie_> question, is there a way to make ubuntu login after rebooting via command line remotely?
[23:41] <reisio> the point being you aren't getting it for free, that is an illusion
[23:42] <sgflt> reisio, sure, w/e
[23:42] <reisio> :p
[23:42] <sam555> which ubuntu desktop should I use if I'm running a poweredige 400SC with 80532 processor, 2.8 g ram?
[23:42] <reisio> sam555: any you like
[23:43] <sam555> reisio: kk, you are so helpful!
[23:43] <sgflt> sam555, do you need 64 bit?
[23:43] <sam555> sgflt: 32bit
[23:43] <rhizmoe> titlebar disappeared, dash is not great. reboot?
[23:43] <rhizmoe> uptime is probably about a week
[23:44] <intelligentfool> so i just booted my laptop and can't see the application menu at the top of the screen, anyone know any keyboard shortcuts to get to a place where i can fix things? i'm on 10.10
[23:44] <sgflt> sam555, hmm, which other choices are there, other than going for LTS or the latest?
[23:44] <rhizmoe> intelligentfool: did you just update?
[23:44] <intelligentfool> yea
[23:44] <rhizmoe> i did, and i have something similar.
[23:44] <intelligentfool> ah, hooray bugs :)
[23:44] <sgflt> intelligentfool, you might be in luck with alt+f2, if that fails ctrl+alt+f1
[23:44] <rhizmoe> is the dash not popping out well, either?
[23:45] <intelligentfool> well i'm on 10.10 on my other machine, so i never had the new unity mess
[23:45] <sgflt> intelligentfool, assuming the easiest fix is "sudo restart gdm" (from the first tty)
[23:45] <intelligentfool> lemme try that sgflt, just rebooted
[23:45] <sgflt> intelligentfool, wait
[23:46] <uhzkm> Hi all, anyone here know much about ruby installation?
[23:46] <reisio> uhzkm: I know between 10 and 75 percent
[23:46] <sam555> sgflt: well, I was deciding on 10 or 9 instead of 11, but now I'm dl'ing 11 alt as reisio had said.  We were having problems seeing the GUI for installation purposes.  We were booting to a usb flash drive and going right to busy box.  So I was just curious if overall my old dell had hardware issues with ubuntu.
[23:46] <sgflt> intelligentfool, oh, nvm. you can switch ttys with ctrl+alt+number, in case you're wondering where your X went, it's probably around 7
[23:46] <smw> !anyone | uhzkm
[23:47] <intelligentfool> i'm using my home machine, but i need to get the broken one fixed for work in the morning :)
[23:47] <reisio> sam555: server hardware probably isn't a priority for the desktop image's graphics autoconfigurators
[23:47] <rhizmoe> sudo gdm restart did not work for mine, fyi
[23:47] <sgflt> sam555, in general, there's two guidelines, i'd say: if it's a "business"-kind of machine (rarely doing crazy stuff, basic work) and you do not need the latest software, LTS is an excellent choice
[23:47] <intelligentfool> hmm, i just rebooted and it came back. i had just played with the themes, not sure what fixed it though
[23:47] <sgflt> sam555, but if your hardware is more recent, you might want to get the latest version, as it comes with a newer kernel (and with that, better support for newer hardware)
[23:47] <Alperen> my usb drive wont mount here is the dmesg and lsusb output how can i fix it? http://pastebin.com/4jsNTiZP
[23:47] <uhzkm> alright, this is what i'm trying to do... #!/bin/bash cd /tmp wget http://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/1.9/ruby-1.9.2-p290.tar.gz tar xvzf ruby-1.9.2-p290.tar.gz cd ruby-1.9.2-p290 ./configure --prefix=/usr\             --program-suffix=1.9.2\             --with-ruby-version=1.9.2\             --disable-install-doc make sudo checkinstall -D -y\                   --fstrans=no\                   --nodoc\                   --pkgname='ruby1.
[23:48] <ikonia> uhzkm: you dont want to do that
[23:48] <sgflt> sam555, so, a rough guideline would be to check when the hardware that's in your machine first came out - if it was a at least year old when the last LTS came out, you're good with LTS. less than that, you might have to check.
[23:48] <rhizmoe> or at least use some semicolons
[23:48] <uhzkm> ikonia, why not?
[23:48] <ikonia> uhzkm: actually do what you want.
[23:48] <escott> uhzkm, ruby1.9 is in the repos
[23:48] <rhizmoe> use rvm, actually
[23:49] <White--> Is there a way to constantly show the taskbar (or whatever it is called in ubuntu)?
[23:49] <ikonia> uhzkm: if you want to break your system, thats your issue
[23:49] <uhzkm> I'm trying to set up bigbluebutton on ubuntu server
[23:49] <uhzkm> just following their installation manual
[23:49] <sgflt> uhzkm, i think what he's trying to say is: you should install ruby from the repos. if that fails, at least do not use /usr as the prefix, but stick with /usr/local
[23:49] <sam555> sgflt: good to know!
[23:49] <ikonia> uhzkm: you need to understand, not blindly follow instructions
[23:50] <sgflt> sam555, YMMV though. =)
[23:50] <uhzkm> ikonia, I didn't come here for a lecture, I am fully aware that I need to understand.  Which is why I am learning by doing.  And I am doing this fairly safely within virtualbox..
[23:51] <ikonia> uhzkm: if you don't need a lecture you wouldn't be doing silly things like that blindly.
[23:51] <uhzkm> ikonia, if you'd rather bash me than answer my question that's your business.  if you don't want to be helpful then stop talking to me..
[23:51] <sgflt> uhzkm, i can't offer a lecture, but an explanation: all the files outside of your homes (some exceptions for configuration/temporary files) should be managed by the package system (dpkg, apt)
[23:51] <rhizmoe> uhzkm: use rmv, trust me.
[23:51] <rhizmoe> rvm
[23:51] <ikonia> uhzkm: I'm not bashing you
[23:52] <ikonia> uhzkm: I offered you the suggestion that you didn't want to do that,
[23:52] <rhizmoe> x y problem, otherwise
[23:52] <sgflt> uhzkm, if you run make install with a prefix of /usr, make will overwrite some files (probably /usr/bin/ruby or whatever). that will cause problems later, for example, when updating ruby stuff through the package manager
[23:52] <sgflt> uhzkm, if you use checkinstall, it *might* work, i'm not entirely sure
[23:53] <cache_surplus> hello, i have a 04df:0016 Interlink Electronics HP xb31 dig projector, trying to hook it up with 10.04 LTS. any suggestions? I have it db9'd and usb'd, lsusb is showing 04df:
[23:53] <smw> sgflt, that would cause different problems
[23:53] <sgflt> uhzkm, you can be on the safe side and use a different prefix - the /usr/local prefix often gets used for this
[23:53] <smw> sgflt, and experienced admin would find it a nightmare
[23:53] <intelligentfool> ok so now that i've got my 10.10 machine unscrewed, how do i get rid of this horrible unity mess?
[23:53] <uhzkm> sgflt, so you're saying that i should ignore their instructions and simply let the dpkg and apt do their thing.  but if I do so, will it affect the bigbluebutton installation?
[23:53] <sgflt> uhzkm, if you do that, the binary, for example, would end up in /usr/local/bin/ruby
[23:53] <smw> sgflt, a novice would reinstall after hours of asking for help :-P
[23:54] <ubidoobi> hi all .. is there any channel i can go in to get help with ubuntu installation .. I have been trying to install it for a week now with no success .. ubuntu doesn't seem to want to recognize my HDD ... have tried many many things ... need help ... msg me if you can help ... thanks!
[23:54] <sgflt> smw, not sure what i should reply to that
[23:54] <smw> uhzkm, you are going to need to explain why you are doing this if you expect help.
[23:54] <AkiRa_> Ok- New question before I totally switch back to a functional microsoft operating system-  Ubuntu lags- splits my chat and sends it to other  windows
[23:54] <sgflt> uhzkm, hmm, you need to consider the instructions
[23:55] <smw> sgflt, just saying checkinstall would not help. It would make the problems more annoying
[23:55] <uhzkm> smw, et al this is my goal... http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/08InstallationUbuntu#Overview
[23:55] <sgflt> uhzkm, i don't know bigbluebutton, but what it seems to need is a working ruby installation. it's not (or should not) depending on anything specific, other than that there is a ruby binary (and associated stuff)
[23:55] <AkiRa_> if im using firefox for online radio or youtube- or if im doing ANYTHING while running wine i get lags and cut outs
[23:55] <robozman> intelligentfool: if you go to the login screen click on your name and don't enter your passworld,  if you look at the bottom there will be ad dropdown menu that says unity.  It you click the arrow it will give you a few choices.  Click gnome to use the classic Ubuntu Desktop.
[23:55] <sgflt> smw, at the very least, when using a different prefix, it makes it easy to get rid of things =)
[23:55] <AkiRa_> driver issue? software issue? linux issue?
[23:55] <sgflt> uhzkm, so, instead of installing ruby (which should be a different step), you could try to install ruby through apt-get
[23:55] <intelligentfool> sweet, thanks robozman
[23:55] <intelligentfool> gonna try that and come back
[23:56] <robozman> kk cool. No Problem
[23:56] <smw> sgflt, very true
[23:56] <robozman> I'm using that right now
[23:56] <haylo-bot_> i dont like operating systems that do everything for me
[23:56] <wolfmitchell> Hey
[23:56] <wolfmitchell> I like hanging out here
[23:56] <texas> anyone here familiar with getting a broadcom wireless card to work with ocelot
[23:56] <robozman> haylo-bot: as in what?
[23:56] <robozman> haylo-bot: ubuntu?
[23:56] <AkiRa_> i understand ubuntu is free- and linux is free- but there is a reason why microsoft charges
[23:57] <haylo-bot_> i am refering to microsoft
[23:57] <AkiRa_> their shit works
[23:57] <sgflt> uhzkm, sudo apt-get install ruby1.9 should do it, for example
[23:57] <uhzkm> sgflt, thank you, seems to be working, hopefully the rest of their install instructions are not dependent on that script
[23:57] <haylo-bot_> there is no auto feature to hack your neighbors wireless for windows
[23:57] <haylo-bot_> is sucky os
[23:57] <ubidoobi> hi all .. is there any channel i can go in to get help with ubuntu installation .. I have been trying to install it for a week now with no success .. ubuntu doesn't seem to want to recognize my HDD ... have tried many many things ... need help ... msg me if you can help ... thanks!
[23:57] <robozman> AkiRa: works well for only doing the simplest of tasks.  Otherwise, for me, its plain annoying
[23:57] <sgflt> uhzkm, they really shouldn't. if they are in a non-trivial way, i would reconsider using the software =)
[23:57] <robozman> hi ubuntu
[23:57] <ubuntu> ola
[23:57] <uhzkm> sgflt, good point.
[23:57] <ikonia> haylo-bot_: what are you talking about
[23:57] <ubuntu> povo
[23:58] <sgflt> uhzkm, just try one thing, once the install is done, type in   ruby --version
[23:58] <Ashfire908> Hello, I need to move a extended partition but I don't know how to move the lvm physical volume inside. What's the process for moving a physical volume?
[23:58] <texas> so i upgraded from 11.04 and now my wirelse doesnt work so how would i do a fresh install
[23:58] <uhzkm> sgflt, it gave the desired version response, i dunno why dpkg thought it was 1.9.1 when the result was 1.9.2
[23:58] <AkiRa_> whats funny is the developers cannot be reached by any means- and yes ubuntu can only handle the simplist of tasks
[23:58] <AkiRa_> and they are about to charge !
[23:59] <Alperen> my usb drive wont mount here is the dmesg and lsusb output how can i fix it? http://pastebin.com/4jsNTiZP
[23:59] <sgflt> uhzkm, oh, they need >= 1.9.2 ?
[23:59] <AkiRa_> how do you charge someone for something that doesn't even work
[23:59] <sgflt> uhzkm, i only checked for 1.9 vs 1.8
[23:59] <AkiRa_> rediculous
[23:59] <Pici> AkiRa_: Feel free to log a bug if you think there is a particular package that is at fault.
[23:59] <sgflt> uhzkm, i'm still on 1.9.0 on my LTS
[23:59] <sgflt> =)
[23:59] <robozman> texas: Its pretty easy to get most wireless chips to work, just google it.  If you are really intent on a fresh install you are going to have to burn a new disk and delete your current intsallation in the process of installing your new one.
[23:59] <ikonia> AkiRa_: what are you talking about now ?
[23:59] <Pici> AkiRa_: But please keep in mind that this is a support channel and that we are all volunteers here.
[23:59] <uhzkm> sgflt, supposedly requires 1.9.2, but that's what i got from the apt install anyway
[23:59] <ikonia> AkiRa_: this channel is an Ubuntu support discussion channel, does your conversation fit into that ?