[05:57] <pleia2> btw: http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/03/10/wiki-ubuntu-com-upgrade-update/
[05:57] <pleia2> so maybe maybe in 2 weeks the wiki shall rise again
[15:24] <Sysi> so, have the default applications all been decided, and do we have any space on installation disk? i've talked about adding pavucontrol earlier already, bu i think not in correct place
[15:24] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[15:25] <charlie-tca> yes, default apps have been decided
[15:26] <Sysi> it's a bit weird that we have pulseaudio and only control to it is volume control in xfce4-mixer
[15:26] <Sysi> but of course people needing it can install it later
[15:27] <charlie-tca> It is also weird that I have never installed that and still get sound?
[15:30] <Sysi> well you have that sound control :P
[15:31] <Sysi> hum, does switching soundcard from xfce4-mixer work for pulseaudio?
[15:31] <charlie-tca> I seem to be in minority too, I think, when it comes to getting sound to work without pavucontrol
[15:31] <charlie-tca> I only have one soundcard
[15:31] <Sysi> i don't use pulseaudio at all
[15:32] <charlie-tca> I use it, because it allows sound from virtualbox machines and the hardware at the same time
[17:04] <charlie-tca> ochosi: from #xubunru
 I just finished a google chrome theme matching the new greybird xubuntu look: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/djhdibfheaidnhfnhhnmdngcmjpicpkn
[17:07] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, the guy isn't there anymore
[17:08] <ochosi> charlie-tca: looks nice, anyhow, greybird has a chrome/chromium style included, so no need for an external theme
[17:10] <charlie-tca> Just wanted to pass that on to you
[17:10] <charlie-tca> He came and announced and left
[17:10] <ochosi> right
[17:10] <ochosi> thanks
[17:11] <ochosi> well i guess in a way that's rather positive feedback :)
[17:11] <charlie-tca> yeah
[17:11] <charlie-tca> copy is flattery!
[17:11] <ochosi> i might not be able to attend tonight's meeting as i'm currently ill
[17:11] <ochosi> and i need to rest again soon
[17:12] <charlie-tca> Okay, take care of yourself
[17:12] <ochosi> i just wanted to check whether tonight the *final* decision about the wallpaper is taken
[17:12] <charlie-tca> hopefully, to give the artist time to change anything needed
[17:12] <ochosi> right
[17:12] <charlie-tca> but we will see
[17:12] <ochosi> ok, so let me quickly pass on my artwork news to you for the meeting
[17:13] <charlie-tca> Do we have any new logos to check out?
[17:13] <ochosi> i looked into that with knome, there's a problem with how the new panel handles the menu-icon
[17:13] <ochosi> i filed a bug about it upstream
[17:13] <ochosi> the new app-menu button is always scaled down to square size
[17:14] <ochosi> so there's not much room for improvement over the current icon
[17:14] <ochosi> i'd suggest we stick to it
[17:14] <knome> charlie-tca, i probably can't attend the meeting today, and my wallpaper proposal is not finished. is it a catastrophe?
[17:14] <charlie-tca> yes
[17:14] <knome> well, i'm going to submit what i have now.
[17:14] <charlie-tca> okay
[17:15] <charlie-tca> We gave what, 4 months or so notice this time?
[17:15] <charlie-tca> ochosi: okay
[17:15] <charlie-tca> what else do we have?
[17:15] <knome> we have what, this thing called life ?
[17:15] <charlie-tca> That's fine
[17:15] <ochosi> charlie-tca: in other artwork news: greybird is now fixed to theme gdm
[17:15] <ochosi> and i improved the xfce4-notification style so that it's more contrasty
[17:15] <ochosi> and easier to see
[17:16] <ochosi> also: there has been a new release of the elementary icons upstream as promised and that includes quite a few fixes for us
[17:16] <ochosi> i submitted many patches to them
[17:16] <charlie-tca> What did we decide on the Education icon?
[17:16] <ochosi> nothing just yet
[17:17] <ochosi> tbh i didn't get what the final point was in "freedesktop-icon-spec vs. freedesktop-menu-spec"
[17:17] <ochosi> but i can add an icon for it in elementaryXubuntu
[17:18] <charlie-tca> We only have about two weeks left now to make these things happen
[17:18] <ochosi> i think we might be able to slim that down a bit, since much of what it contained is now in upstream as well
[17:18] <ochosi> i know
[17:20] <ochosi> right, i guess that's about it for artwork atm
[17:20] <charlie-tca> okay, I will pass that stuff along
[17:20] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[17:20] <ochosi> thanks
[17:20] <ochosi> :)
[17:20] <charlie-tca> get some rest?
[17:21] <ochosi> btw, about the wallpapers, i'd be happy if it were something not just grey or blue
[17:21] <ochosi> i submitted to green photos myself that i like a lot
[17:21] <charlie-tca> Yeah, me too. But I think we can ask for a change to them, too
[17:21] <ochosi> s/to/two
[17:21] <knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7
[17:22] <charlie-tca> non-photos can always be changed a bit, right?
[17:22] <ochosi> sure, also photos can be changed
[17:22] <ochosi> anyhow, to be honest there are quite a lot submissions that i don't like...
[17:24] <charlie-tca> I kind of like http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7
[17:24] <charlie-tca> and the balloons
[17:27] <mr_pouit> Not sure I'll be on time for the meeting (I'll be either 20 min late or 20 min too early ;-).
[17:27] <charlie-tca> Well, that is a pickle
[17:28] <charlie-tca> hm, could be a real short meeting, now
[17:29] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Did you have a choice or two on wallpaper?
[17:32] <mr_pouit> yeah, the one from knome, and possibly a second one, with a man flying with an umbrella
[17:32] <mr_pouit> (I don't have the url right now)
[17:34] <charlie-tca> I see the umbrella one
[17:34] <mr_pouit> and the packaging/dev report, nothing much: uploaded new greybird, fixed a few default settings' issues, and blacklisted a few indicators in xfce4-indicator (e.g. indicator-appmenu, we don't want it)
[17:35] <charlie-tca> Okay
[17:35] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[17:36] <mr_pouit> oh, also fixed a crash in xfce4-terminal, and patched xfce4-settings to solve the long standing bugs wrt sticky keys
[17:36] <charlie-tca> even better
[17:37] <mr_pouit> I have to leave now, maybe I'll make it on time ;-)
[17:37] <ochosi> ah, one note on the reboot/logout issue: it also happens with the logout-window that is called from the menu
[17:37] <ochosi> so it's really something independent
[17:37] <ochosi> not depending on the session-menu or any othre panel plugin
[17:37] <charlie-tca> but does it happen if you remove session menu completely, and use the action buttons ?
[17:38] <ochosi> it does
[17:38] <Sysi> happened to me
[17:38] <charlie-tca> All my restart/shutdown issues disappeared with session menu, and they were there no matter what else I did
 Hello!  I'm doing some work on indicator-datetime, and it's preference dialog now covers the same functionality as time-admin.  It also has controls for indicator-datetime.  So for Ubuntu the Product, I want to not have time-admin, but I'm assuming it would still be useful for xubuntu?  Do you guys use indicator-datetime?
[17:40] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^ ^
[17:51] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[17:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: aren't you an hour early?
[17:51] <ochosi> yeah, just thought the same :)
[17:51] <charlie-tca> That's wrong, isn't it?
[17:51] <charlie-tca> huh
[17:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: date -u
[17:52] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 70 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[17:52] <micahg> :)
[17:52] <charlie-tca> Sorry for the confusion
[17:57] <charlie-tca> So, If I held the meeting an hour early, can I make it a shorter meeting?
[17:58] <knome> no, we'll file an appeal to the community council :P
[17:59] <charlie-tca> Maybe you would make it if it is earlier?
[17:59] <charlie-tca> hm, appears Technical board gets the room first
[17:59] <knome> doesn't really matter. i shouldn't be here now either, but i'm forced to work with inkscape on windows 2000
[18:05] <cody-somerville> knome, http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=4064
[18:07] <knome> yeah, ETA 2 week starting next week.. in the canonical schedule that means it's ready 2014!
[18:09] <charlie-tca> looks like a good thing to me
[18:09] <cody-somerville> yea, lets be positive for once even if knome might be right :P
[18:10] <charlie-tca> knome might be wrong, and it will happen before natty releases, too!
[18:10] <cody-somerville> \o/
[18:22] <knome> charlie-tca, can we move the wp issue to first on the agenda??
[18:24] <charlie-tca> I can put it after the old business
[18:27] <knome> better than nothing, i guess
[18:32] <knome> A draft for Xubuntu Natty wallpaper including green and blue colors blurred so the wallpaper stays on the background. Designed to work well with the Greybird theme.
[18:32] <knome> errr
[18:32] <knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/
[18:34] <charlie-tca> Why did that get under emunkki instead of in the pool as it's own submission?
[18:35] <charlie-tca> How many different places do we have submissions for this?
[18:36] <charlie-tca> I should be able to look at http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/ and see every submitted wallpaper, it seems that is not possible?
[18:37]  * micahg is missing the title bar now
[18:38] <knome> charlie-tca, it *is* submitted to the pool, just reload the page
[18:38] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[18:38] <knome> charlie-tca, that's just how flickr is.
[18:39] <knome> charlie-tca, it first shows the author when you go to any photo page
[18:39] <charlie-tca> oh, I am sorry
[18:39] <knome> np
[18:42] <charlie-tca> Heads up, I am proposing we put the top 5 wallpapers in backgrounds, for the users to have for the entire release
[18:43] <micahg> anyone lose their title bar in the latest updates?
[18:43] <charlie-tca> what title bar, in the windows?
[18:43] <micahg> yep
[18:43] <knome> charlie-tca, okay for me, but we still need a default ;]
[18:43] <micahg> I have the menus, but no title bar now
[18:43] <charlie-tca> micahg: Alt+F2, xfwm4 &
[18:44] <Sysi> & is not actually needed with xfrun4
[18:44] <micahg> charlie-tca: ah, thanks, you know what happened
[18:44] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:45] <charlie-tca> probably had all windows that were open at shutdown piled on top of each other in workspace 1, too
[18:45] <micahg> was playing with unity 2d
[18:48] <charlie-tca> micahg: I get that everytime I restart with the "session menu" installed in the panel
[18:51] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:51] <charlie-tca> I got it right this time, didn't I?
[18:51] <knome> yup
[18:51] <knome> though it was 9 minutes
[18:51] <knome> ;)
[18:52] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:52] <charlie-tca> but I usually start one minute late
[18:52] <charlie-tca> :-)
[19:32] <knome> charlie-tca, suggestion: if we get to choose the five best, let's upload those and leave artists one week to finish off the designs and let's decide the default one week from now?


[00:15] <yukiup> anyone try out the new lubuntu?
[00:25] <sysdoc> Does anyone have an idea on how to get the touch pad on a laptop to use pinch gestures in Firefox and Thunderbird for zoom in and out?
[00:28] <yukiup> :p
[00:30] <sysdoc> This is the channel where every one went to after the freenode debacle, no?
[00:30] <sarnold> yeah
[00:32] <sarnold> sysdoc: I'm kinda getting the feeling it's windows-and-mac only; maybe this? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-touch-zoom/
[00:32] <genii-core> sysdoc: Did you try holding down the ctrl key while doing it?
[00:37] <genii-core> ..because that works for me in Firefox
[01:35] <sysdoc> genii-core: Yeah, I did, was looking for a way to use the gestures without a key +
[01:43] <sysdoc> Well I just installed Edge in KDE ubuntu and the gestures just work, and so does sync. Who knew that MS would enter the Linux world and embrace open source. Brilliant move imo.
[05:20] <webchat3> Just updated to 21.10, and I am seeing some odd behavior with the Firefox snap and KeepassXC (both snap & flatpak)
[05:21] <webchat3> Using the Firefox flatpak works fine
[05:22] <webchat3> Whenever I attempt to use the auto-type feature of KeepassXC, the text never makes it to the web page when using the snap version of Firefox
[05:22] <webchat3> Snap version of Chromium works just fine
[06:11] <jemo1> exit
[06:51] <agvantibo> I've hacked together a small script (https://paste.gnome.org/pybfz4wp2) to backup all my APT packaged to an external drive if it is mounted, and slapped it into my anacrontab. Now I need to a) get rid of the sudo -S crutch to run the stuff with elevated privileges, and b) somehow make it wait for the drive to connect if the job is executed, but I did not connect + mount the drive. Anybody could help with that?
[06:51] <agvantibo> And yeah, Cicacium4521 is my user pass. Enjoy!
[06:54] <tomreyn> agvantibo: if so, then hopefully you don't have sshd listening on the internet
[06:55] <agvantibo> Nope. That's why I'm so carefree about you guys reading it.
[06:56]  * agvantibo looks at the `pgrep sshd` output, cureses dirtily and sudo systemctl stops the sshd
[06:59] <agvantibo> Oh, and turns out I don't actually need these sudo -S things, as the script is running as a (root) anacron job.
[07:50] <nikolam> Hi I just upgraded to xubuntu 21.10 and as I see, i am forcefully moved form firefox to firefox in a snap container, without asking.. Is it really necessary to do that without asking and how do I know who is compiling and from where snap applications, when they do not come from Ubuntu .deb repos?
[07:58] <toddc> nikolam: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/a364ii/proscons_of_snap_vs_apt/
[08:07] <nikolam> A ha. So snap pulbisher is Mozilla and Ubuntu distro can't do anything about it.. Like leaving control to some other organisation over most often used binary in distro . I wish people are left to choose .deb or snap and not forced into snap.
[08:07] <nikolam> Snap is as I know Ubuntu-only..
[08:07] <nikolam> And what about my data in firefox and settings, if I delete snap, will my data be gone too.
[08:08] <nikolam> I am now worrying to even start Firefox for it to not "update" my Firefox profile, that is local, so I won't have it if I remove Firefox snap
[08:08] <toddc> nikolam: snaps in ubuntu are default install you can and may remove them but they are here ftill somthing better comes along--- no data is stored in the snap you are safe
[08:11] <nikolam> And leaving application maintenance and updates to third party, pushing binary blobs inside snap, without distro insight in it's contents nor ability to apply patches? Publisher is as I see outside Ubuntu?
[08:12] <ramblebamble> nikolam, your user-files will be mounted in the snapfolder, so there shouldn't be any problems, as to publishing binaries, etc. we already do that there is apt-autoupdate- we do not role our own binaries like Gentoo-users do, and when you update, depending on the distro) you update all, otherwise it would be version hell
[08:13] <ramblebamble> while i am not a fan of snap, as it is Ubuntus own tooling unlike flatpak, controll of the ecosystem(I know package mirrors and all), this approach might yield a more stable system because there are less dependendcies to keep track of
[08:15] <nikolam> " we do not role our own binaries" - Isn't that the definition of distro death. Or MS-windows-like "leave everything to third parties" principle.
[08:23] <ramblebamble> depends on what you consider we
[08:23] <ramblebamble> we as in the users or we as in the distributions
[08:24] <nikolam> In this case it is distributions that brings binary blov from the third party as the default browser and does not overlook source befor shipping.
[08:24] <sadbot> I regret going from lts to normal release ,any way to go back to lts ?
[08:25] <VIA> heyy all!
[08:25] <ramblebamble> and when I read ".... pushing binary blobs inside snap...." I could also read ".... pushing binary blobs to our mirrors....", and that would warrant the question: Are the distributions building their own version of python or php and look at every loc
[08:25] <ThinkT510> downgrading is not supported, you'll need to reinstall
[08:25] <VIA> pretty gebenral question
[08:25] <nikolam> sadbot, Only if you use apt-btrfs-snapshot and Btrfs and do rollback on system state before update
[08:26] <sadbot> Yeh i wish learned about btrfs snapshot early
[08:26] <VIA> how o  i get a newky opened window/instance bacck to bing in focus??!
[08:27] <nikolam> sadbot, you could actually do fresh install in a VM, zfs/send receive , in this case Btrfs send/receive and make new install a new "default" "@" dataset on Btrfs and get LTS bootign by default in this way. Do data backups first on offline media.
[08:28] <VIA> so far ny cciursir renaiss wherever  abd 99% of time that  botches or simply overcomplicates things+
[08:29] <nikolam> sadbot, yet take care that some application updates might not like running older version of app once they are updated.
[08:32] <nikolam> ramblebamble, Distributions are definatevly building their own versions of the packages, they are not the same binaries and it is common to think that per-distro app maintainers are free to ship their own patches if needed and do source code oversight. With binary blobs coming from third party, all that is not done. For better and for worse.
[08:33] <ramblebamble> nikolam gotcha
[08:33] <cbreak> that's the big problem of snap and similar, and also the reason why those exist in the first place
[08:34] <cbreak> snap allow shipping compiled binaries with a whole linux bundled along it. this is obviously inefficient in size and launch time, and memory consumption, and makes updating anything due to security a pain
[08:34] <cbreak> but it also allows shipping binaries with exactly the environment those binaries are compiled for
[08:34] <cbreak> it's similar to linking everything statically, taken to the extreme
[08:35] <nikolam> What if one asks now in Ubuntu something about Firefox.. support answer would be..ask Mozilla, it's their binaries. Doesn't matter it does not handle your distro or DE in some way or have distro-specific bug. We can't do anything or roll your own distro.
[08:35] <nikolam> cbreak, i see. so snap can ship a distro within itself. Huh.
[08:35] <cbreak> I think they're supposed to, indirectly
[08:36] <cbreak> they depend on core20 or core18
[08:36] <cbreak> which as far as I know is a frozen copy of ubuntu1804 or ubuntu2004 lts
[08:36] <cbreak> but without the surgically updated security patches the real OS would have
[08:36] <ramblebamble> not distributions, but dependencies, so you don't have to suffix shared objects anymore, would amount to almost static compiling
[08:37] <ramblebamble> nikolam, I would say that I could ask in any linux channel and they will be able to answer my question because a lot of users, not all mind you, will speak from experiences?
[08:37] <cbreak> having loose shared objects is much more modular
[08:38] <cbreak> and if they've been installed via some package manager like apt, they can be updated if security problems arise. Which they will.
[08:38] <cbreak> and if the libraries provide a good ABI that is stable, you can live with having only few variants
[08:38] <cbreak> maybe qt4, qt5 and qt6, with just the newest minor versions
[08:39] <nikolam> Or we are looking at the abyss of binary blob containers, across the distros, no one can really control and patch.
[08:39] <cbreak> snaps seem to suffer from the same issue docker and similar technology does: Lack of upgradability
[08:40] <cbreak> and plenty of overhead
[08:42] <ramblebamble> cbreak, why do are docker-container hard to upgrade?
[08:43] <cbreak> containers are built on images, in normal use, they vanish and are just recreated the next time you start them
[08:43] <cbreak> so you'd have to update the image
[08:43] <cbreak> images are built in a layered fashion, so you'd have to keep adding 'update && upgrade' layers at the end, which is kind of against the idea of docker
[08:44] <cbreak> so instead, you might want to completely recreate it
[08:44] <cbreak> either way, you end up with overhead, in different forms
[08:44] <stephen_> guys, I just want to install the latest kernel for my pop os, but I actually have no idea, how could I do that?
[08:44] <cbreak> stephen_: apt update && apt upgrade doesn't do that?
[08:44] <ThinkT510> pop os isn't supported here
[08:45] <cbreak> you could upgrade to ubuntu, if you want kernel ... 5.13? I think
[08:45] <stephen_> it's 5.13 now
[08:45] <stephen_> but I want to upgrade to 5.14
[08:45] <ramblebamble> cbreak, you can squash layers of images, just like you can squash commits in git, and yes there is overhead compared to running everything on one disk BUT you buy separation of concern with it
[08:49] <nikolam> stephen_, I know the feeling, comping from Slackware.. it's paradigm shift from "it's good thing to compile your kernel" to "we won't support your packages if you compile kernel and packages might not work" Really a bummer. Solves with choosing a distro that is ok with recompiling kernel or adjusting to precompiled ones.
[08:50] <TJ-> nikolam: that's not quite true; Ubuntu builds and provides mainline kernel builds for testing and we don't refuse to help for systems using those
[08:51] <nikolam> TJ-, sure in a testing case. But in general how one can really be sure a application binary would continue to work if one recompiles Linux kernel. Not so much on Linux in general.
[08:52] <cbreak> what's the point of updating the kernel there?
[08:53] <TJ-> nikolam: well, the kernel userspace interface doesn't/shouldn't do regressions
[08:53] <nikolam> cbreak, and that is comes the shift :)
[08:53] <TJ-> cbreak: getting latest functionality, or working around/past various bugs
[08:53] <cbreak> yeah, that's the generic reason
[08:53] <cbreak> but you can get bug fixes via backports
[08:54] <cbreak> and you can probably get some of the new functionality by updating kernel modules
[08:54] <TJ-> what?
[08:54] <TJ-> "updating kernel modules" ?
[08:54] <cbreak> like the using the zfs dkms, or updating the nvidia driver modules
[08:54] <cbreak> which add new functionality to the same kernel
[08:54] <TJ-> those are out-of-tree modules, not part of the kernel packages
[08:54] <cbreak> yes.
[08:54] <cbreak> that's what makes them so much more flexible
[08:55] <nikolam> TJ-, I can't expect for .deb from 15.04 or something to work on kernel from 21.10. It's not a Linux thing to have stable ABI.
[08:55] <cbreak> kernel ABI to userspace should be stable
[08:55] <cbreak> at least a lot more stable than the kernel internal abi...
[08:55] <TJ-> nikolam: yes, you can. what you're on about is the library dependencies not kernel
[08:57] <TJ-> I recently deployed Ubuntu 10.04 onto a new kernel build
[08:58] <cbreak> :O
[08:58] <nikolam> TJ-, Well, if library depends on kernel version.. I would really like to swallow Linux is now Linux now have stable ABI.
[08:58] <cbreak> you're setting up some historical virus / malware honeypot?
[09:01] <TJ-> nikolam: the only time a library will depend on a kernel version is for the new APIs. But the kernel rarely removes interfaces and only when there are no obvious users of them ('users' being developers/users who make themselves known to kernel devs when features are marked deprecated)
[09:02] <nikolam> From Linux perspective everything outside kernel is userspace. But inside userspace libraries as said usually needs to recompile for an app to work. And that usually boils to depencency hell if wanting to use binary that is not compiled for current distro. And for that, here comes containers.
[09:02] <TJ-> in other words, backward compatibility should be there (more recent kernels shouldn't break older userspace tools)
[09:03] <TJ-> nikolam: precisely, chroot on 'steroids'
[09:03] <cbreak> the only userspace tools you're likely to break is those that rely on kernel functionality
[09:03] <cbreak> like communicating with kernel modules to achieve their purpose
[09:05] <TJ-> I build and use the latest mainline kernel and systemd for example, about 3 times a week, incorporating additional patches. Not hit any serious issues as a result aside from of my own making :)
[09:05] <nikolam> TJ sounds like, from older distro use on newer kernel, that you don't need Linux kernel anymore for your use case. Might as well use LX branded zones on Smartos/illumos and run every distro without Linux kernel. Hey, it's wont break ever it there is no Linux in the first place :P
[09:06]  * nikolam stopping before going too much offtopic
[09:06] <cbreak> you need a linux kernel to run any userspace application that relies on the kernel API
[09:07] <cbreak> for example, if you want to open files, then your libc translates the posix open into what ever form that's required to tell the kernel to open a file
[09:07] <TJ-> nikolam: no, I do some forensics work and keep ensuring older devices are accessible using latest tooling, suc as accessing eseoteric devices
[09:07] <cbreak> that thing is usually a linux kernel
[09:07] <cbreak> it could be some fake kernel of course, like that one in the linux subsystem for windows
[09:27] <nikolam> TJ-, really commendable from you, still being able to use older devices is one of the strong points.
[09:27] <MemMike> hi, someone open to a quick question about a memory management issue? i'm a bit lost
[09:28] <nikolam> cbreak, nope, LX zones don't need Linux kernel. Another one sure.
[09:31] <nikolam> I am running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on it, serving apps and services.
[09:39] <westor> hello, i use "apt upgrade" and "linux-firmware" failed to install (log: https://pastebin.com/Rhs5dnnr) anybody knows why this fails?
[09:40] <cbreak> out of space on /boot?
[09:48] <jatt> when I type "ls _" in the last line of my gnome-terminal, the underscore is not visible, https://imgur.com/jddvS90.png
[09:48] <jatt> is this a general problem, not sure it only happens on my environment
[09:48] <jatt> I'm running Ubuntu 21.10
[10:30] <knstn> Guys, I have a ubuntu laptop (20.04 LTS) fully updated. I create a hotspot with my smartphone. The smartphone is using 4G cellular data. I connect the laptop to the hotspot. I see the connection active but it says "Connectivity: limited". The link is UP but the mode is DORMANT. I can ping <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> but I can't connect to the internet at all.
[10:31] <knstn> I disabled UFW as well but with no luck.
[10:31] <lotuspsychje> !hotspot | knstn can this help?
[10:34] <knstn> Well, this is the opposite of what I'm trying. I don't want to create a hotspot using my laptop, I want to connect to a hotspot. It connects but it don't get to the Internet.
[10:35] <ducasse> does your mobile provider allow tethering?
[10:36] <knstn> I wish I knew that... The smartphone sees the laptop connected to the hotspot. The smartphone connects to the internet. The laptop doesn't. I am out of ideas.
[10:37] <daft> I have network problems. To connect to my libvirt machines i have a subnet on my subdomain.  host.sub.domain.name. set it up to my external ip and with a local dns change to my local IP. now does nslookup give the right local ip. but ping and other connection try to connect to the external ip.
[10:38] <daft> knstn, is it everything or hostname lookup?
[10:38] <toddc> ducasse: I use both usb and wifi on 20.04 with no issues  so your phone may not allow teathering from your provider
[10:39] <knstn> Everything. I can't even "apt update". The laptop shows that it gets IP, gateway, DNS... from the hotspot.
[10:39] <knstn> It could be that. I will call the provider.
[11:55] <cbreak> how usable is the plasma desktop compared to the default gnome 3 ubuntu thing?
[11:55] <ravage> that really is a personal preference
[11:56] <ravage> it is totally usable
[11:56] <ravage> try it in a VM
[11:59] <cbreak> I tried i3 for a bit, but that was... too minimal for my taste
[12:16] <ravage> feel free to discuss your experience in #ubuntu-discuss :)
[12:19] <GrayGhost> will an realtech usb wifi 8821 work in 21.10... I have been unable to install the driver :(
[12:23] <raub> So I am running 20.04.3 LTS with unity. I used the system setting to dim the screen after 3 minutes and then suspend after 10 minutes. And left the machine overnight to find it locked the screen and that was it. I found no error messages in the syslog file. Where else should I be looking at?
[12:28] <ioria> GrayGhost, what's your exact chip ? lspci -nnk | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:28] <saiiden> hello
[12:29] <BrianHechinger[m> I have a 20.04 machine that I ran `apt full-upgrade` on and it got stuck at `Setting up qemu-system-common (1:4.2-3ubuntu6.18) ...`. How do I get it unstuck? It's just hanging there.
[12:30] <ioria> GrayGhost, sorry;   lsusb  | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:31] <raub> BrianHechinger[m: Can you open another terminal?
[12:31] <BrianHechinger[m> Yes
[12:33] <LuckyMan> is it possible to upgrade from 21.04 to 21.10 without do-release-upgrade -d ?
[12:33] <ravage> not yet
[12:33] <LuckyMan> when?
[12:33] <ravage> "soon" TM
[12:33] <LuckyMan> lol ok
[12:34] <LuckyMan> is flutter running ok on 21.04?
[12:34] <LuckyMan> what about in 21.10?
[12:34] <raub> can you do 'sudo tail -50 /var/log/apt/term.log' and 'sudo tail -50 /var/log/syslog' to see if there are any error messages?
[12:34] <GrayGhost> ioria, https://termbin.com/mzjw
[12:38] <BrianHechinger[m> raub: nothing jumps out at me
[12:39] <BrianHechinger[m> Ctrl-C and trying again with `sudo dpkg --configure -a` results in the same behavior
[12:39] <BrianHechinger[m> watching syslog but so far nothing got printed there
[12:40] <BrianHechinger[m> Oct 16 12:39:26 bob systemd[1]: qemu-kvm.service: Killing process 70061 (qemu-kvm-init) with signal SIGKILL.
[12:40] <BrianHechinger[m> Oct 16 12:39:26 bob systemd[1]: qemu-kvm.service: Killing process 68514 (qemu-kvm-init) with signal SIGKILL.
[12:40] <BrianHechinger[m> is it waiting for the VMs to stop?
[12:41] <BrianHechinger[m>  * ```Oct 16 12:40:56 bob systemd[1]: qemu-kvm.service: Processes still around after SIGKILL. Ignoring.```
[12:41] <ioria> GrayGhost, what have you tried so far ?
[12:42] <BrianHechinger[m> Oct 16 12:42:27 bob systemd[1]: qemu-kvm.service: Killing process 70061 (qemu-kvm-init) with signal SIGKILL.
[12:42] <BrianHechinger[m> Oct 16 12:42:27 bob systemd[1]: qemu-kvm.service: Killing process 68514 (qemu-kvm-init) with signal SIGKILL.
[12:43] <raub> BrianHechinger[m: good quesiton. I do shut down/pause vms before applying patches
[12:43] <BrianHechinger[m>  * ```... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a61a5509770b3836cdb97e00808e21c2892d1beb)
[12:43] <GrayGhost> ioria, I have tried instaling several different drivers .. every time I get a make error 2
[12:45] <BrianHechinger[m> ```
[12:45] <BrianHechinger[m>  * ```... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/9ed149ad4a89239efc5d0dae5023acd60fd7e5b1)
[12:45] <BrianHechinger[m> yeah, going to try taking the VMs offline and see if that helps
[12:48] <BrianHechinger[m> Yeah, I'm going to reboot it. Something isn't right.
[12:50] <ioria> GrayGhost, have your tried  this ? https://github.com/whitebatman2/rtl8821CU.git
[12:50] <raub> Good luck
[12:54] <GrayGhost> ioria, bash: https://github.com/whitebatman2/rtl8821CU: No such file or directory
[12:55] <xu-help4w> I did a fresh install of Ubuntu 20.04.3, and checked the box to install proprietary nvidia drivers. Steam doesn't launch after that. When I do another fresh install of Ubuntu 20.04.3 without checking the box for proprietary things -- Steam works fine. What is the problem with that and how to solve it?
[12:57] <ioria> GrayGhost, it's not a cmd, it's a git rewpo
[12:57] <ioria> *repo
[13:08] <xu-help4w> I thought it was OK to use open source driver, but Terraria and American Truck Simulator lagged a lot on my 1050 Ti
[13:09] <ap_22> hi all.can someone tell me please how to turn on boot messages instead grub picture on start.many thanks.
[13:12] <EriC^^> ap_22: type 'sudo nano /etc/default/grub' and remove 'quiet splash' from the line at the top, save and 'sudo update-grub'
[13:13] <TJ-> I usually leave 'grub' alone and write local changes to /etc/default/grub.d/local.cfg  (saves getting challenged about diffs when grub packages are upgraded)
[13:13] <ap_22> thx
[13:30] <BrianHechinger[m> raub: What a downward spiral of events. So yeah, ultimately rebooting it allowed me to continue the update. Well, after a kernel panic the first reboot and the UPS deciding to turn off the second reboot. But, third time was indeed a charm. 🤣
[13:32] <GrayGhost> ioria, same error as before : make[1]: *** [Makefile:1874: /home/mhc/rtl8821CU] Error 2
[13:33] <ogra> GrayGhost, that single line is not really helpful, try using paste.ubuntu.com or pastebin.com and post the full log
[13:33] <xu-help4w> Where can I get official support of Ubuntu 20.04.3?
[13:34] <ogra> xu-help4w, free community support is here, on the forums or in the ubuntu-users mailing list ... for paid support see https://ubuntu.com/support
[13:35] <ogra> (oh and on askubuntu.com indeed)
[13:35] <xu-help4w> Ah, it's got paid support :(
[13:35] <xu-help4w> Oh, ok, I've asked here and there, but...
[13:37] <GrayGhost> ogra, https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/ysPrbjGBzR/
[13:37] <spookley> hey
[13:38] <spookley> zhe shi sm qun???
[13:38] <spookley> you meiyou yemaozi???
[13:42] <ogra> GrayGhost, did you install dkms already ?
[13:43] <GrayGhost> ogra, i think so ?
[13:43] <ogra> sudo apt install dkms
[13:43] <ogra> then follow the steaps under "To make use of the DKMS feature with this project, do the following:" ...
[13:44] <GrayGhost> ogra, dkms is already the newest version (2.8.4-4ubuntu1).
[13:44] <ogra> (just copy paste line by line into your terminal from that section on https://github.com/whitebatman2/rtl8821CU)
[13:44] <xu-help4w> if you do remember my question asked an hour ago... here's the output of terminal
[13:44] <xu-help4w> https://pastebin.com/g78KScGT
[13:49] <ravage> xu-help4w: switch to the nvidia driver and enjoy your games
[13:50] <ravage> not sure if i read you previous comments correctly though about the current state of your system
[13:52] <GrayGhost> ogra, https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/YxPrfkxcdm/
[13:52] <xu-help4w> ravage, https://imgur.com/a/1COvvB0, it's already preinstalled and switched
[13:55] <ravage> xu-help4w: whats the output of "glxinfo | grep -E 'vendor|direct rendering'" ?
[13:55] <ravage> may require the mesa-utils package
[13:55] <xu-help4w> it's fine, already installing it
[13:56] <xu-help4w> ravage, https://pastebin.com/Dc8W3DBM
[13:57] <ravage> ok. your systeam really looks good to go
[13:57] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:57] <ravage> are you on a wayland session maybe?
[13:57] <xu-help4w> hm, how to check that?
[13:58] <ravage> logout and there should be a gear to switch the session from wayland (default) to X11/xorg
[13:58] <ravage> on the login screen when you select your user
[14:05] <xu-help97w> the login screen doesn't show whether I'm using wayland or X11
[14:05] <xu-help97w> there's only my name and the password and nothing exceptional
[14:07] <tomreyn> xu-help97w: if you're using gdm (defaul ubuntu login manager) then while entering you username, you should see a tiny icon on the bottom right corner
[14:08] <tomreyn> you can set the session type there. usually "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu on Wayland" by default.
[14:09] <Mekaneck> tomreyn: it's "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu on Xorg"
[14:10] <Mekaneck> since wayland is default
[14:10] <ravage> he is on 20.04
[14:10] <Mekaneck> i don't think 20.04 has wayland
[14:10] <ravage> it does
[14:10] <Mekaneck> hmm
[14:11] <xu-help81w> that's all I have: imgur.com/a/EXSL1ry
[14:11] <xu-help81w> https://imgur.com/a/EXSL1ry
[14:11] <tomreyn> thanks, though Mekaneck, i didn't actually notice that xu-help81w and xu-help4w and xu-help97w were the same person and there was earlier chat.
[14:11] <Mekaneck> click on your name first xu-help81w
[14:11] <xu-help81w> I should have chosen another nick sorry haha
[14:12] <Mekaneck> then a gear icon will appear in the lower right
[14:13] <Mekaneck> RomanSteam: figured it out yet?
[14:13] <Mekaneck> .....
[14:14] <tomreyn> does xubuntu support (and pre-install)xwayland on 20.04, yet, though?
[14:14] <ravage> i have actually no idea
[14:14] <RomanSteam> https://imgur.com/a/iCBmj4C
[14:14] <tomreyn> because both the look of this images and the nickname suggest this is what they're using
[14:15] <RomanSteam> I don't see any gears
[14:15] <GrayGhost> ogra, thanks for trying, I will look for a usb wifi that is supporter by the current kernel
[14:15] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: is this ubuntu or xubuntu?
[14:15] <RomanSteam> it's ubuntu for sure
[14:15] <ogra> GrayGhost, well, it looks like that git tree is simply not for 5.x kernels
[14:16] <ravage> loginctl show-session 2 -p Type
[14:16] <ravage> should work for him right?
[14:16] <ravage> shows Type=x11 for me
[14:16] <GrayGhost> ogra, that seems to be with all for this dongle
[14:16] <ogra> GrayGhost, https://github.com/andydvsn/rtl8821cu_wlan try this one
[14:17] <RomanSteam> Failed to get session path: No session '2' known
[14:17] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: apt list --installed xwayland*wayland
[14:17] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: apt list --installed xwayland
[14:17] <tomreyn> that rather
[14:17] <webchat53> hello, how can i format ubuntu laptop w/o live cd or bootable usb?
[14:17] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: sorry, this:   apt list --installed xwayland*
[14:18] <Mekaneck> webchat53: not
[14:18] <RomanSteam> one minute, I'll switch to English
[14:18] <ogra> GrayGhost, oh, or perhaps this one https://github.com/brektrou/rtl8821cu it explicitly states 5.x
[14:18] <tomreyn> webchat53: you could boot from network, but this requires another computer and isn't easy to set up the first time
[14:18] <ogra> GrayGhost, just call the ./dkms-install.sh script from the tree
[14:19] <RomanSteam> https://pastebin.com/T45DzKqi
[14:20] <webchat53> tomreyn ok, I want to hand over my laptop to someone else, i've backed up all the necessary data, now just want to kinda factory reset it. is there any other way?
[14:23] <webchat53> How can i factory reset ubuntu laptop?
[14:23] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: who installed ubuntu on your laptop before?
[14:24] <webchat53> airsoftmodels I did
[14:24] <GrayGhost> ogra, that one went through without errors .. reboot and see if it work
[14:24] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: well, why not repeat the steps again?
[14:24] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: so it's installed, indeed. i'm unsure why gdm is not showing the other session. maybe xorg is not installed?   apt list --installed xserver-xorg-core*
[14:24] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: a factory reset on a laptop is called a "clean install"
[14:25] <webchat53> airsoftmodels as of now i do not have live cd or bootable pendrive. i installed it a couple of years ago
[14:25] <RomanSteam> it also shows "installed,automatic"
[14:25] <webchat53> airsoftmodels okay, clean install
[14:25] <airsoftmodels> webchat53:  ok, those are $5. so buy one, you are going to need it.
[14:25] <webchat53> okay
[14:25] <webchat53> thanks, airsoftmodels
[14:26] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: so before you wipe your hard drive, download the latest distro you like, and write it to usb
[14:26] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: is "WaylandEnable=false" uncommented in /etc/gdm3/custom.conf ?
[14:26] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: it takes like ten minutes to do a clean install, and works great.
[14:27] <GrayGhost> ogra, No Joy :(
[14:27] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: much easier than windows, i would say
[14:27] <webchat53> airsoftmodels, umm, can i use gparted like utility to just clean the drives? my aim is to not keep any personal data there....
[14:27] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: also, do you have nvidia graphics with the proprietary nvidia driver?
[14:27] <GrayGhost> anyone know of a usb wifi dongle that will work with the current kernel ?
[14:28] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: yes.  i use gparted to erase the usb key before writing the distro to it.
[14:28] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: you will get the opportunity to erase your hard drive during the install of linux
[14:28] <webchat53> airsoftmodels okay
[14:28] <RomanSteam> tomreyn, Yes, it is uncommented. Like this, with a slash: #WaylandEnable=false
[14:28] <RomanSteam> Oh...
[14:28] <RomanSteam> I meant it's commented.
[14:29] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: alright, it should be commented out. how about nvidia?
[14:29] <RomanSteam> nvidia: https://imgur.com/a/1COvvB0
[14:29] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: okay, i guess this will be why
[14:30] <tomreyn> ... you have no option to choose wayland
[14:30] <airsoftmodels> webchat53: one last thing:  check out distrowatch.com, all of the "buntu's" are listed there, as well as many other great options
[14:30] <webchat53> airsoftmodels okay
[14:30] <airsoftmodels> cool
[14:31] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: i think there is some kind of experimental support for xwayland with the nvidia proprietary driver on ubuntu 21.10 - for the first time.
[14:33] <RomanSteam> oh... well, I am curious about the possibility to run steam on Ubuntu 20.04.3 with proprietary drivers
[14:35] <RomanSteam> as for me this actually is the first time Steam doesn't work on Ubuntu or Ubuntu-based distros; everything worked fine previously
[14:45] <tomreyn> RomanSteam: how is that related to needing wayland?
[14:46] <RomanSteam> tomreyn, I don't mind that wayland or X11 used, the main question is how to make steam work
[15:22] <Nitrigaur> I´m trying to install Ubuntu 21.10 on encrypted partition using the following disk setup: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7HZ4Gpdhgj/
[15:23] <mago> Hi do you know some vpn alternative to vpngate?
[15:24] <mago> Or at least were to get servers for openvpn?
[15:24] <Nitrigaur> I´d like some help with the proper settings/ install for grub, since I end up with a Grub Cli instead of the usual menu to boot my OS´es.
[15:24] <leftyfb> !ot | mago
[15:24] <cmhobbs_> hello!  i've got 20.04 running on a macbook pro16,1 (it's a 2019 model with a touch bar and t2 chip).  i'm not using the wired network but i keep getting a constant notification every few minutes that says  "connection failed" "activation of network connection failed" with a wired network icon on it.  how can i make that stop happening?
[15:24] <mago> !guidelines
[15:25] <Nitrigaur> Is there any way to test the LUKS keyfile prior to reboot?
[15:26] <leftyfb> cmhobbs_: go to network manager and set the wired connection off or to into it's details and uncheck "connect automatically"
[15:27] <cmhobbs_> leftyfb, perfect thanks!
[15:35] <Magio> Hi, I've just installed 21.10, and noticed that you can't launch scripts by double clicking them from Nautilus in this version of GNOME. I looked into it a bit, and it seems that's intended as GNOME devs decided to remove that option (check this bug report https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/-/issues/1700 for more info). You can still launch
[15:35] <Magio> scripts by right clicking and selecting that option, but as it's something I do quite often I'd prefer just being able to double click. I was wondering if anyone here had any idea how I could regain that functionality?
[15:36] <Magio> If I could set it so .sh files are opened by the terminal by default that would be good, as I imagine there's no way to regain the dialog
[15:57] <GrayGhost> anyone know of a usb wifi dongle that works with the current kernel ?
[16:01] <boblefis> GrayGhost, https://www.asus.com/us/Networking-IoT-Servers/Adapters/All-series/USBAC51/ is one that I use
[16:06] <GrayGhost> boblefis, do I have to install drivers ?
[16:06] <GrayGhost> does it work with 21.10
[16:07] <boblefis> I did not have to
[16:07] <boblefis> It just worked
[16:10] <GrayGhost> I will give it a try thanks
[16:10] <boblefis> np
[16:24] <thelounge2280> How do I prevent my /etc/network/interfaces from being overwritten after a reboot?
[16:27] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: what version of ubuntu?
[16:29] <thelounge2280> Latest
[16:29] <thelounge2280> Actually LTS, 20.04
[16:30] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: do you have a desktop environment installed?
[16:30] <thelounge2280> No.
[16:30] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: 20.04 doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces by default
[16:31] <thelounge2280> Might be because it's a server?
[16:31] <leftyfb> no
[16:31] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: did you install ubuntu on this server yourself and from scratch?
[16:32] <thelounge2280> No. I chosen from their OS templates.
[16:32] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: who is they?
[16:32] <thelounge2280> Hosting provider.
[16:32] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: is this a VPS?
[16:32] <thelounge2280> Yeah. KVM.
[16:32] <nunggu> ok, now it's scary to change interfaces on remote host
[16:33] <thelounge2280> Nah, I have SPICE access luckily.
[16:33] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: ok, you'll need to contact the VPS provider for support. Sounds like they have a modified version of ubuntu which we cannot support
[16:33] <thelounge2280> I see. Thanks for letting me know.
[16:34] <leftyfb> thelounge2280: a default installation of ubuntu uses netplan/networkd, not ifupdown. Regardless, previous versions of ubuntu didn't have anything overriding /etc/network/interfaces by default either
[16:34] <leftyfb> (server)
[17:08] <Elliria> Would it be okay to ask a question about using a specific brand and model of keyboard with Ubuntu in here or would that go in the ubuntu-off-topic channel?
[17:40] <GrayGhost> how do I proceed with this :https://imgur.com/a/iwDYKOy
[17:41] <GrayGhost> I tried a reboot ... no Joy
[17:43] <GrayGhost> never got a "Change Secure Boot state" menus
[17:54] <shalok> According to aptitude: mpv (held/unchanged, 0.27.2-1ubuntu1) could be upgraded to version 2:0.33.0~bionic3, but it is being held at version 0.27.2-1ubuntu1
[17:54] <shalok> Ok sure... but why is it being held?
[17:54] <shalok> I want to upgrade this package... How do I 'unhold' it?
[17:55] <EriC^^> shalok: sudo apt full-upgrade
[17:55] <EriC^^> actually, what does 'sudo apt install mpv' give?
[17:56] <EriC^^> or apt-mark showhold mpv
[18:00] <shalok> EriC^^:  https://ideone.com/Oz29yP
[18:01] <oerheks> bionic does not give 0.33 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpv
[18:02] <oerheks> surely follow EriC^^'s tip; sudo apt full-upgrade and reboot
[18:25] <strngelet> Update to my gnome issue from yesterday where there was no lock screen on resume.  apt update resolved it and I could not reproduce it after that.  Talked to people on #gnome and did some diagnosis, but it was solved by the update so no bug report will be made.
[18:39] <EriC^^> shalok: looks like a big ppa issue going on
[18:40] <webchat3> I upgraded from 21.04 to 21.10 yesterday, and I am seeing some odd behavior with Firefox.
[18:40] <webchat3> First is that when using the Firefox Snap, I am unable to use the auto-type feature of KeepassXC. Entering the global shortcut (ie ctrl+alt+shift+p) does nothing in the Firefox window. Opening KeepassXC, selecting an entry, and selecting `Perform Auto-Type` does not send the credentials to Firefox.
[18:40] <webchat3> I can use the auto-type from KeepassXC in the Chromium Snap just fine, as well as in the Flatpak version of Firefox.
[18:41] <webchat3> I have tried both the Snap and Flatpak versions of KeepassXC, both have the same behavior.
[18:41] <webchat3> Second issue is that whenever I open the Firefox Flatpak while any other window is present, Firefox opens *underneath* the currently focused window and I get a notification that `Firefox is ready`. For example, open the file explorer, then open the FF flatpak.
[18:41] <webchat3> The Snap version opens as expected (ie on top of everything else)
[18:41] <webchat3> Any ideas on what's going on here?
[18:52] <oerheks> webchat3, for the auto-type issue, file a bug report? for the flatpak issue, we do not support flatpack issues, find the package maintainer?
[20:00] <Dcode20> jobs
[20:01] <Mekaneck> wrong channel Dcode20
[20:01] <Dcode20> wrong window
[20:01] <Mekaneck> both then, but lets move on
[20:16] <ericus> Trying to install ubuntu FDE on a fresh disk alongside with Windows, is this not possible?
[20:16] <ericus> Can I install Ubuntu first, shrink the disk and make space for win?
[20:19] <Mekaneck> ubuntu FDE?
[20:19] <GrayGhost> I would install windows first ..then shrink and install linux
[20:20] <GrayGhost> other wise windos install will install it boot loader and make it hard to get back to linux
[20:20] <tomreyn> ericus: while the ubuntu installer supports installing next to an existing windows installation, i don't think it does so in the full disk encryption scenario.
[20:21] <ericus> No it doesnt
[20:21] <ericus> Just install alongside, not encrypted
[20:21] <tomreyn> ericus: but i'd generally agree that installing windows first, ubuntu second, is the right order
[20:22] <tomreyn> then again, i'd generally try to prevent multi-boot setups and prefer virtualization
[20:23] <ericus> Have to try again tomorrow. Only one USB stick at home atm, had to reflash from Linux to Windows a hundred times
[20:58] <funkyjive> trying to create a second network interface on ubuntu 20.04 (just home server not EC2).  I used these instructions (https://aws.amazon.com/premiumsupport/knowledge-center/ec2-ubuntu-secondary-network-interface/) to create a yaml file and do a netplan apply ... it says my configuration is valid but doesn't appear to create the second network
[20:58] <funkyjive> interface
[20:58] <funkyjive> any site with instructions or way to troubleshoot what is going on?
[21:05] <tomreyn> funkyjive: is this a physical network interface, or are you trying to create an alias / virtual interface?
[21:05] <c0r1s> hi
[21:06] <tomreyn> funkyjive: note there's also #netplan - but did you check your system logs, yet, and what's in /run/ ?
[21:06] <tomreyn> hi c0r1s
[21:07] <funkyjive> tomreyn: yes it is a physical network.  I want to have two interfaces on the same NIC
[21:08] <funkyjive> and an alias or virtual interface really is enough.
[21:10] <tomreyn> so what about logs? what about the systemd-networkd configuration in /run ?
[21:10] <funkyjive> tomreyn: i am looking in /run/network/ifstate and it just has lo and eth0 ... while I am trying to add eth1
[21:11] <tomreyn> you can't just add another network interface out of thin air, it needs to be physically present
[21:11] <funkyjive> I am mostly interested in a second IP address on the same NIC
[21:12] <funkyjive> that can be done ... but it appears the way we do it in ubuntu has changed over the years
[21:12] <funkyjive> just a virtual interface
[21:13] <tomreyn> https://netplan.io/examples/#using-multiple-addresses-on-a-single-interface
[21:13] <tomreyn> also the following section if you'll have multiple gateways
[21:13] <tomreyn> (not passing all traffic through the default route)
[21:14] <funkyjive> if my main IP is not configured through netplan does ...
[21:14] <funkyjive> it still work?
[21:15] <funkyjive> the IP that is working is not configured via netplan ... just in /etc/network/interfaces
[21:15] <tomreyn> probably not. you can use different methods to configure different interfaces, but each interface should only be configured once
[21:16] <funkyjive> is there a way for me to simply add a second interface to /etc/network/interfaces?    You take your eyes off this for a minute and all of the sudden the way you do everything is different
[21:16] <tomreyn> /etc/network/interfaces is deprecated on supported ubuntu releases
[21:17] <funkyjive> ok ... and I have upgraded several times (this is an old installation)
[21:18] <tomreyn> you can have "ifup ip add..." lines there, but your better option is to look forward and move to systemd-networkd with or without netplan
[21:18] <funkyjive> it seems like every time I take a look at this stuff it has all changed.  :)
[21:19] <tomreyn> network configuration had not changed in a loooong time before that
[21:20] <tomreyn> i don't remember seeing anything other than /etc/network/interfaces ever before
[21:20] <funkyjive> there were scripts and stuff attached to if-up and down and stuff ....
[21:20] <tomreyn> right
[21:30] <funkyjive> I am trying to find a guide for how I can switch this thing to the new way to do it ...  I found this https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-switch-back-networking-to-etc-network-interfaces-on-ubuntu-20-04-focal-fossa-linux  which is all about going backwards ....
[21:31] <waltman> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone know why mutt is only 2.0.5 in 21.10? Version 2.1.0 came out in June. I thought for sure it would be in impish.
[21:31] <gneeriiloeepdeer> do you know 0AD? (ubuntu game). I started playing it and after 3 minutes the screen alternating between being pitch black and showing the screen for milliseconds. I had to suspend the computer to get a working desktop once again. What explain this behavior?
[21:33] <tomreyn> funkyjive: i'd say just write a new config for netplan, bring down the interface, remove the /etc/network/interfaces configuration and do netplan apply
[21:34] <tomreyn> gneeriiloeepdeer: your logs might have a clue.
[21:36] <gneeriiloeepdeer> tomreyn, where do I find the logs?
[21:36] <tomreyn> gneeriiloeepdeer: 0ad might write some, and so does the OS. journalctl is a command to access system logs
[21:37] <tomreyn> journalctl -b -1 -e    should bring you to where the system last shut down
[21:38] <Sven_vB> hi :)
[21:41] <Sven_vB> In focal, how can I run a program (e.g. xterm) with untrusted xauth access? it must not be able to screenshot other programs, except ideally it should be able to screenshot its children.
[21:42] <Sven_vB> I tried xauth generate, but it always replaces my trusted cookie
[21:45] <gneeriiloeepdeer> tomreyn, I found nothing under journalctl, any suggestion where in 0ad I might find the logs?
[21:46] <tomreyn> gneeriiloeepdeer: i don't know, but don't they have a channel here?
[21:47] <gneeriiloeepdeer> IRQ 127: no longer affine to CPU3 IRQ 132: no longer affine to CPU3 IRQ 133: no longer affine to CPU3
[21:47] <gneeriiloeepdeer> what could all these mean?
[21:51] <Sven_vB> nevermind, seems to work now
[21:51] <tomreyn> gneeriiloeepdeer: this seems to be an issue with intel gpus after resum from suspend
[21:52] <gneeriiloeepdeer> ah crap
[21:52] <gneeriiloeepdeer> me thinking intel is better than amd...
[21:54] <tomreyn> it's probably just a driver / firmware bug
[21:55] <gneeriiloeepdeer> tomreyn, cpu firmware you mean. I fyou mean so, how do I update it?
[21:56] <tomreyn> gneeriiloeepdeer: your "bios" is what i mean, but it could also be a bug in linux or the intel graphics drivers.
[22:02] <gneeriiloeepdeer> tomreyn, just how often should a regular user upgrade his computer's firmware? cause I;ve never done it
[22:02] <oerheks> gneeriiloeepdeer, firmware through ubuntu, no need to interact. only bios upgrades i guess