[00:11] <hendaus> Download snap "gnome-3-28-1804" (145) from channel "stable" (unexpected EOF)
[00:11] <hendaus> where can i download this snap ?
[00:15] <vimart> Hi
[01:08] <arooni> so this is my partition setup for ubuntu 20.04;  i notice i'm running out out of space on /opt/  i regret separating paratitions like this as i have plenty of room on /home/ but running out of space on /.  what would you suggest to do at this point?  its a 500 gb samsung ssd.  i also have a 500gb internal platter drive i'm not really using for anything.
[01:08] <arooni> https://imgur.com/a/LjyEWBV
[01:09] <arooni> ext4 formats
[01:12] <leftyfb>  arooni boot to live usb, rsync everything to the home partition as a proper filesystem, delete the other partitions, resize home and fix the fstab
[01:12] <leftyfb> arooni: make backups first
[01:14] <arooni> which is the proper filesystem?
[01:14] <arooni> xfs?
[01:15] <gambl0re> hello?
[01:15] <leftyfb> I mean rsync the other partitions to their proper location on your home.
[01:16] <gambl0re> when i boot, it goes into grub. im trying to fix it by following this https://askubuntu.com/questions/232215/stuck-in-grub-rescue-mode
[01:17] <gambl0re> when i type "ls [partition]" i found one that returns /efi/boot
[01:17] <leftyfb> for instance:  mkdir {/mnt/{opt,home} && sudo mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/home && sudo mount /dev/sda6 /mnt/opt && sudo rsync -av /mnt/opt/ /mnt/home/opt/
[01:17] <arooni> ah so you're saying i can keep ext4 ; but make everything, root, swap, home all mount on the same partition?
[01:17] <gambl0re> does that mean that is my linux partition?
[01:17] <arooni> oh i see; put it all in /home
[01:18] <leftyfb> arooni: the home partition, not within the /home directory on the home partition
[01:18] <arooni> when i'm done can i combine the /home partition with the separate root partition and merge the space?
[01:18] <arooni> ah ok
[01:18] <leftyfb> arooni: the home partition is going to become root
[01:18] <leftyfb> arooni: make backups
[01:18] <oerheks> ai, root is outside the extended part..
[01:18] <arooni> yes definitely; i have that 500gb drive internal and also a 2tb network drive i could borrow
[01:19] <leftyfb> arooni: make backups and prepare to reinstall from scratch
[01:19] <arooni> i suppose i should make two backups ; one on the internal drive and on on the usb drive
[01:19] <arooni> before i do anything else
[01:19] <arooni> whats the best way to do the backup?  rsync?
[01:20] <arooni> and rsync say all of home and in a separate directory all of / ?
[01:20] <arooni> thanks for all the advice btw
[01:20] <leftyfb> arooni: also, your users home directory is probably on the root of the home partition. You'll want to sudo mkdir /mnt/home/home # and move your users home directory from /mnt/home/$USER to /mnt/home/home/$USER
[01:21] <arooni> its partition surgery
[01:23] <arooni>  would a re-install work better?  or i could always resort to that if i'm a terrible surgeon?
[01:24] <leftyfb> arooni: been helping you for 12 years now :)
[01:25] <leftyfb> arooni: consolidating the partitions would be a good learning experience. But if you're not interested in that then yeah wiping and starting over will be a lot easier
[01:25] <arooni> i'm sorry that i still need the help ;P
[01:25] <arooni> would you go with ext4 again?
[01:26] <arooni> assuming i did the reinstall route
[01:26] <leftyfb> yes
[01:26] <oerheks> no reason why not to trust ext4
[01:26] <leftyfb> nope
[01:27] <arooni> oh theres the xfs thing; but i know nothing about it
[01:27] <arooni> i did some file system repair before with ext4; seemed to have the facility for it
[01:28] <arooni> what is my bigger error, picking separate mount points for root and home?
[01:28] <arooni> didn't that use to be accepted practice at some point?
[01:28] <leftyfb> it doesn't make a lot whole of sense to do these days
[01:28] <oerheks> xfs does have advantages, but not for a single user system.
[01:29] <leftyfb> just use the whole drive, don't bother with manual partitioning
[01:30] <arooni> i don't remember what the rationale was for that decision
[01:31] <arooni> when you do the backup would you use rsync?
[01:31] <leftyfb> arooni: btw, your first request for help, as far as my logs go anyway: :Mar 31 00:28:47 <foob>	help!  i have ubuntu ibex on my thinkpad t61.  when i restarted, the networkmanager applet is not visible and thus i don't know how i can connect to a wireless network.  any ideas?
[01:31] <leftyfb> 2009
[01:31] <arooni> hahahha you have a much better memory (and logs lol) than i do.
[01:31] <arooni> you think i'd be an expert by now
[01:31] <arooni> i learn just enough to get by lol
[01:32] <arooni> and i'm still using a thinkpad, but now a souped up t420 that has a 500gb ssd, 12gb of ram, and an upgraded quad core processor.  it refuses to die
[01:32] <arooni> i would like a new lenovo soon but this keeps getting the job done
[01:33] <arooni> i appreciate all your help over the years very much
[01:33] <arooni> linux can be challenging at times
[01:36] <arooni> kkky
[01:36] <arooni> oops ; typo :(
[02:43] <arooni> what anyone here use duplicati?  having trouble getting it working with dependencies
[02:53] <arooni> ok i think im getting it solved
[03:42] <soy_el_pulpo> Hi all, I want to replace my old door intecom with a doorphone. I have a small pxb (grandstream) and an audiocodes mp-202 2fxs to connect an analog doorphone (2 wires). I managed to do the autodial inside the audiocodes but I need to nable some kind of autohangup when we hang up inside the house so the doorphone hangs up too. any ideas?
[03:49] <tux-cool> I am trying to set up NFS on a ubuntu server that is on an isolated LAN (by that I mean that is is not connected to the internet)
[03:57] <soy_el_pulpo> tux-cool great, is there a question?
[03:57] <soy_el_pulpo> @tux-cool
[03:58] <tux-cool> I am trying to set up NFS on a ubuntu server that is on an isolated LAN (by that I mean that is is not connected to the internet)
[03:58] <soy_el_pulpo> @tux-cool ok
[03:58] <tux-cool> how should I do that
[03:58] <tux-cool> the server is not connected to the internet of security reasons
[03:59] <soy_el_pulpo> internet is not required to have an NFS server
[03:59] <tux-cool> how should I install the required packages
[04:00] <soy_el_pulpo> for the setup can you connect the computer to the internet
[04:00] <soy_el_pulpo> ?
[04:01] <tux-cool> The computer in question can not be connected to the internet for security reasons.
[04:01] <soy_el_pulpo> do an installation at home, basic vanilla ubuntu
[04:02] <tux-cool> what do you mean
[04:02] <soy_el_pulpo> then do: sudo apt install nfs-kernel-server
[04:02] <soy_el_pulpo> take note of the packages installed
[04:02] <tux-cool> the server already has ubuntu studio installed and has and never will connect to the internet
[04:03] <soy_el_pulpo> there should be only one.
[04:03] <Ascavasaion> Surely you could dowload packages on another computer, move them to the server, or a location accessible to the server, and install them manually?
[04:03] <soy_el_pulpo> ubuntu studio?
[04:03] <soy_el_pulpo> are you allowed to connect a usb drive to the server?
[04:03] <tux-cool> what are the dependencies of nfs-kernel-server
[04:03] <tux-cool> I am allowed to connect a usb drive to the server
[04:04] <soy_el_pulpo> ok, replicate your installation on another computer and validate if there is any dependency
[04:04] <leftyfb> soy_el_pulpo: your question isn't an ubuntu support question
[04:04] <soy_el_pulpo> it's just the NFS kernel
[04:05] <tux-cool> ok, so can I just download the package and put it onto a usb drive and use DPKG to install
[04:05] <soy_el_pulpo> @leftyfb sorry, I forgot to change the channel. my bad. Apologies
[04:05] <soy_el_pulpo> It was intended for the asterisk channel
[04:09] <soy_el_pulpo> @tux-cool I don't see why you won't be able to do so
[04:10] <tux-cool> @soy_el_pulpo thank you for your help
[04:10] <soy_el_pulpo> ;-)
[04:10] <tux-cool> I think that I now understand what to do
[04:10] <jakelazaroff> question: after starting up, running `sudo journalctl` returns "no journal files were found -- no entries --" until i restart systemd-journald. the latter seems to be running fine if i check the status, and there are log files being generated in /var/log/journal. i can also see logs being sent out via rsyslog, so i assume something's just preventing journald from processing them. running ubuntu 20.04.
[04:11] <billybigrigger> how do i mount a raid0? i just installed a server 20.04 and selected raid0 at boot with 4 disks, i see mdstat showing the array is built at /dev/md0
[04:11] <jakelazaroff> been searching around but to no avail :( is there anything else i can try?
[04:11] <billybigrigger> but i get an error when trying to mount /dev/md0 /mnt/md0
[04:12] <billybigrigger> wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/md0
[04:14] <soy_el_pulpo> @billybigrigger try this: sudo mdadm --assemble --scan
[04:16] <billybigrigger> soy_el_pulpo no output is good output? lol
[04:17] <billybigrigger> i still can't mount after that command
[04:17] <billybigrigger> mount | grep md shows nothing either so it's not already mounted
[04:17] <soy_el_pulpo> check the status of the raid
[04:18] <billybigrigger> state: clean
[04:18] <billybigrigger> disks 0-3 are active....
[04:18] <billybigrigger> listed as /dev/sda..b..c...d
[04:18] <soy_el_pulpo> ok
[04:18] <billybigrigger> i dunno what you want me to see, it's all the same
[04:18] <soy_el_pulpo> the uuid has not change?
[04:18] <billybigrigger> no
[04:18] <soy_el_pulpo> why they stopped working?
[04:18] <soy_el_pulpo> what changed?
[04:18] <billybigrigger> fresh install....then never STARTED working  lol
[04:19] <soy_el_pulpo> ah ok
[04:19] <billybigrigger> this was created from the installer btw
[04:19] <soy_el_pulpo> ok
[04:19] <Lutin> where is runsvdir-start usable for ?
[04:19] <billybigrigger> but, all looks good to me, i dunno what's wrong, i haven't used ubuntu in ages
[04:19] <billybigrigger> active devices: 4
[04:19] <billybigrigger> working devices: 4
[04:19] <soy_el_pulpo> new machines do weird stuff with the boot
[04:19] <billybigrigger> failed devices: 0
[04:20] <soy_el_pulpo> but you got the the rescue terminal of the installation?
[04:20] <billybigrigger> no i'm in the installed OS
[04:20] <soy_el_pulpo> it's just not finding the /boot
[04:20] <billybigrigger> no no, i'm not trying to do boot raid
[04:20] <soy_el_pulpo> ok. so the raid is for data?
[04:20] <billybigrigger> the os boots fine
[04:20] <billybigrigger> yes correctt
[04:21] <soy_el_pulpo> you have a functional system on another disk?
[04:21] <billybigrigger> yes
[04:21] <soy_el_pulpo> ah ok
[04:21] <billybigrigger> i just can't mound /dev/md0
[04:21] <billybigrigger> s/mound/mount
[04:21] <soy_el_pulpo> well, destroy the raid and doi it by hand
[04:21] <soy_el_pulpo> lol
[04:22] <soy_el_pulpo> do a parted o fdisk to check the device
[04:23] <soy_el_pulpo> partitioned and formated?
[04:23] <soy_el_pulpo> the block device exist as /dev/md0
[04:24] <soy_el_pulpo> need to create a partition and that's what you mount
[04:33] <trupsalms> total noob question, is it possible to run doh and dot and the same machine DOT https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/dns-over-tls-resolver-nginx & DOH https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/dns-over-https-doh-resolver-ubuntu-dnsdist
[05:17] <JoeLlama> moo Glassjoe :)
[05:18] <Glassjoe> :o
[05:18] <JoeLlama> have xubuntu 20.04 will install
[05:20] <JoeLlama> ö
[05:50] <trupsalms> total noob question, is it possible to run doh and dot and the same machine DOT https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/dns-over-tls-resolver-nginx & DOH https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/dns-over-https-doh-resolver-ubuntu-dnsdist
[06:35] <billybigrigger> whats the defacto disk benchmarking util in linux/ubuntu?
[06:35] <billybigrigger> i want to test my raid0 performance
[06:42] <me-sudoer-dentne> i need some help with sssd
[06:42] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/M4SJC
[06:42] <me-sudoer-dentne> i have all the dependancies installed already
[06:44] <pi0> anyone here run lxd? how would i be able to configure a container behind a vpn
[06:48] <me-sudoer-dentne> is anyone online?
[07:08] <guiverc> me-sudoer-dentne, I would check your sources.. the versions in your paste don't match a single release; hiruste & focal??
[07:09] <me-sudoer-dentne> groovy
[07:09] <me-sudoer-dentne> 20.10
[07:10] <guiverc> okay, yeah i was wrong, they do match groovy; except for `sssd-common | 2.4.0-1ubuntu3     | hirsute `
[07:12] <guiverc> groovy should read `sssd-common | 2.3.1-3ubuntu3     | groovy-updates`  what do you see for `apt-cache policy ssd-common`
[07:12] <me-sudoer-dentne> k wait
[07:13] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/GJIOS
[07:17] <guiverc> you have manually installed packages from hirsute?  why?  hirsute is not groovy; thus your issue?  I'd remove the hirsute package(s) and use groovy ones
[07:18] <me-sudoer-dentne> well i didnt
[07:18] <guiverc> and of course `sudo apt -f install` to ensure you've caught them all
[07:18] <me-sudoer-dentne> i installed from kali-rolling
[07:19] <guiverc> the "Installed 2.4.0-1' matches the hirsute line I posted before.. it's not from a source in your paste (unless you edited it out),
[07:19] <me-sudoer-dentne> then what should i do now exactly
[07:19] <guiverc> same thing..  remove all kali packages
[07:20] <me-sudoer-dentne> ok
[07:20] <me-sudoer-dentne> then?
[07:20] <pi0> i thought lxd already installed on ubuntu as stock
[07:21] <me-sudoer-dentne> guiverc: i removed them
[07:21] <guiverc> I would check your system.. `ubuntu-security-status` for other packages that will create issues when you try to bump to hirsute... try and stick to official ubuntu packages unless you're willing to re-install often..
[07:21] <guiverc> `sudo apt -f install` should have no errors then
[07:21] <me-sudoer-dentne> ok wait
[07:21] <me-sudoer-dentne> no it doesnt show any errors
[07:22] <me-sudoer-dentne> now what do i do
[07:23] <me-sudoer-dentne> guiverc: please respond
[07:23] <guiverc> if all unofficial packages are removed; installs from official sources should work again
[07:23] <me-sudoer-dentne> ok
[07:23] <me-sudoer-dentne> but how to det sssd working again
[07:23] <me-sudoer-dentne> ?
[07:24] <me-sudoer-dentne> get*
[07:25] <me-sudoer-dentne> guiverc: and no i am not able to install sssd
[07:27] <guiverc> if you provide a paste, me or others can look..
[07:28] <Bashing-om> !info sssd-common groovy | me-sudoer-dentne
[07:28] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/MP3BY
[07:29] <guiverc> sssd-tools is another that matches hirsute, or likely your kali-rolling that you said you removed
[07:29] <me-sudoer-dentne> yup
[07:29] <me-sudoer-dentne> now i am purging sssd
[07:29] <me-sudoer-dentne> and trying to reinstall
[07:29] <me-sudoer-dentne> lets see if that works
[07:30] <guiverc> contrast `sssd-tools | 2.3.1-3ubuntu3     | groovy-updates` and `sssd-tools | 2.4.0-1ubuntu3     | hirsute `  --- it's in your messages too!
[07:30] <guiverc> it'll apply to all "Depends:" lines
[07:30] <me-sudoer-dentne> how do i do it
[07:30] <guiverc> inc. the "sssd-ad" in front of the "Depends:"
[07:31] <guiverc> you need to remove the kali-rolling packages you installed..
[07:31] <me-sudoer-dentne> i did
[07:32] <me-sudoer-dentne> 193 packages removed
[07:32] <guiverc> as I stated before, you could use `ubuntu-security-status --thirdparty` to get a list of all 3rd party you've added.. it may include other non-kali you've added too
[07:32] <me-sudoer-dentne> ok wait
[07:33] <me-sudoer-dentne> 1738 packages installed, of which:
[07:33] <me-sudoer-dentne> You have no packages installed from a third party.
[07:34] <guiverc> :)   well done.. try to install again
[07:34] <me-sudoer-dentne> again you have held broken packages
[07:34] <guiverc> `sudo apt -f install`
[07:34] <me-sudoer-dentne> did
[07:34] <me-sudoer-dentne> that is the result
[07:35] <guiverc> any detail show (ie. paste results)
[07:35] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/ULXCC
[07:36] <guiverc> `apt-cache policy sssd-ad`  - i suspect that's still a kali package
[07:36] <guiverc> ditto the other lines that have "Depends:" issues
[07:36] <me-sudoer-dentne> idk
[07:36] <me-sudoer-dentne> what to do?
[07:36] <guiverc> I tried to allude to them before, but you missed it sorry; i'm distracted with other things
[07:36] <me-sudoer-dentne> ok
[07:37] <guiverc> sssd-ad is likely kali-rolling, as is sssd-ipa, sssd-ldap etc...
[07:37] <me-sudoer-dentne> no it isnt
[07:37] <guiverc> `apt-cache policy sssd-ad` should show the ubuntu source for it.. what do you get?
[07:37] <me-sudoer-dentne> its there in groovy
[07:37] <guiverc> okay sorry I misread your paste.. sorry
[07:38] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/PMNH2
[07:38] <guiverc> `apt-cache policy libsss-idmap0`
[07:38] <me-sudoer-dentne> oh ok wait
[07:38] <me-sudoer-dentne> https://bpa.st/7Z7N4
[07:39] <guiverc> that's a KALI-ROLLING or (hirsute like) source - note the INSTALLED version is higher than any line which applies to a in.archive.ubuntu.com source for your groovy
[07:39] <me-sudoer-dentne> ya i realised that
[07:39] <guiverc> it needs to be removed;; it's wanting the kali/hirsute (later) packages than are available for groovy
[07:39] <me-sudoer-dentne> so what do i do now?
[07:39]  * guiverc gotta go sorry
[07:40] <me-sudoer-dentne> kk
[07:41] <guiverc> the libsss-idmap0 (kali package) needs to be removed
[10:58] <AndroidDAW> how does ubuntu protect against anomynous package upload
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> elaborate a bit AndroidDAW what are you trying to do?
[11:00] <AndroidDAW> like, how does ubuntu repo's ensure that a user cannot for example, upload a package that replaces another package created by another user?
[11:00] <AndroidDAW> for example, if a user tries to upload a fake/malicious glibc package
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> AndroidDAW: you could start the topic in #ubuntu-discuss if you like, and/or talk to the #ubuntu-mirrors & #ubuntu-release crew too
[11:07] <AndroidDAW> ok
[11:07] <AndroidDAW> as im thinking of creating my own repository that users can upload to, specifically for packages that are usable by my application
[11:08] <agvantibo> Regular users don't have permissions to just take and upload stuff to the universe/multiverse repos.
[11:08] <lotuspsychje> AndroidDAW: personal use or would you like to contribute to ubuntu?
[11:09] <AndroidDAW> personal
[11:09] <lotuspsychje> kk
[11:10] <agvantibo> And user repos (PPA) have to be set to override those explicitly. If you're doing this, you'll probably make sure that the repo is good
[11:11] <agvantibo> And if we're talking about devs uploading virus/spyware stuff, that's what Microsoft does, not canonical
[11:31] <AndroidDAW> how easy is it for a newbie to create a ubuntu .deb package from scratch?
[11:32] <AndroidDAW> how easy is it to create a .deb package from scratch? *
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> you were in the right channel in #ubuntu-discuss AndroidDAW
[11:33] <AndroidDAW> oof
[11:41] <bibble> pi0: seems lxd vpn is just like normal. The kernel could be old though so this shows a way around it https://d.sb/2019/07/wireguard-on-openvz-lxc
[11:54] <simonl_> .
[12:10] <frad> what command - app can I use to trim a flac file? I know there mkvtoolnix to trim mkv and mp4 files, but flac is audio
[12:13] <ThinkT510> frad: audacity is nice for audio editing
[12:13] <frad> ThinkT510, audacity will give me a huge file, 2.5x times the original size
[12:14] <frad> I was hoping for something like mkvtoonix, which simply cuts the file
[12:14] <frad> no size increase
[12:14] <frad> cuetools?
[12:14] <frad> https://danilodellaquila.com/en/blog/how-to-split-an-audio-flac-file-using-ubuntu-linux
[12:20] <frad> thatwon't work
[12:24] <bibble> frad: ffmpeg can cut flac without changing filesize ? Just set codec to copy.
[12:24] <ThinkT510> frad: maybe you just need to tweak the quality output settings in audacity
[12:28] <frad> bibble, are you asking me or informing me?
[12:30] <bibble> Asking. Should definitely just slice away as you want then. No recoding etc.
[12:32] <bibble> ffmpeg -i song.flac -ss 00:12:34 -t 60 -c copy 1min.flac
[12:57] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:57] <lepricated> good morning
[13:04] <frad> bibble, so, ss means starting cuepoint and t is the ending point?
[13:04] <frad> not cue
[13:04] <frad> just point
[13:09] <bibble> Yeah, start time the how many seconds duration. Can also do milliseconds: 60.3
[13:14] <CrazyLikeAFox> can I just dd the drive I'm booted from onto another drive, or would it be best to boot from live media instead?
[13:15] <frad> bibble, if I trim files with both mkvtoolnix and ffmpeg, sometimes the resulting file will show as being, say 00:05:35, but play until 00:05:01. The file stops at 05:01, but those extra 4 seconds still appear in the media player. Why?
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> CrazyLikeAFox: best not clone a hd/ssd in curent use
[13:16] <CrazyLikeAFox> lotuspsychje: fair enough, I intend to switch to using the desitination drive as the main one
[13:17] <lotuspsychje> CrazyLikeAFox: best to clone them both passive
[13:17] <welldone> why the ubuntu installer installs both the system / and /home on the same partition? this is painful in case of re-installation to the system, any thoughts on that??
[13:17] <bibble> Not sure frad . ffmpeg probably has an option to cut by keyframe instead of real chop. Maybe something like that.
[13:17] <CrazyLikeAFox> Yeah, I'll just pop a live dvd in
[13:19] <EriC^^> welldone: simpler for average linux user i guess
[13:35] <welldone> EriC^^ but ubuntu is used by average users as well as pro users and the issue is that you can't have disk encryption by installer if you used "custom" installation method unless you made that modification manually using the CLI
[13:35] <welldone> which is painful too
[13:43] <bibble> welldone: is it the same for both server and desktop edition ? Guess it makes sense as default desktop because of the average user installing apps that can add a lot of data in system. But server definitely better being separate for stability.
[13:44] <EriC^^> welldone: yeah, that's an issue
[13:56] <lanoxx> If I go to packages.debian.org and search for a package, where can I see the component that the package is in, like main or contrib?
[14:06] <lanoxx> hmm, it seems this can be seen at https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/opencv but not directly on packages.debian.org
[14:07] <krytarik> This ain't #debian though..
[14:28] <isapgswell> hi
[14:30] <isapgswell> avoid first POST with proprietary technology, permit only minimal first boot some linux liveusb
[14:31] <isapgswell> when i buy my dell g7 i disabled all from intel capable technology, and dell
[14:31] <isapgswell> in some cases this disable intel mei and persist after reinstall
[14:32] <isapgswell> when you buy a new notebook do that
[14:32] <isapgswell> put fastboot minimal
[14:33] <isapgswell> disable hyperthread, turboboost
[15:04] <miss_shodan> *cough*
[15:04] <miss_shodan> snap is evil.
[15:06] <leftyfb> miss_shodan: this is a support channel. Is there something we can help you with?
[15:07] <miss_shodan> Yeah, snap is evil. It's a ploy to deploy javascript, anadroid OS and so on, so Google wannabes would use it for evil.
[15:07] <miss_shodan> Whoever pitched the idea*
[15:08] <leftyfb> miss_shodan: this is a support channel. Not a place to rant. Please go to #ubuntu-offtopic or file bugs
[15:33] <sylario> My Ubuntu VM (18.04) just booted with a tty console instead of a desktop
[15:33] <sylario> I reinstalled ubuntu dsesktop, now my desktop is purple, and that's it
[15:33] <sylario> nothing else
[16:54] <trupsalms> nginx is back at default, dnsdist https://pastebin.com/h6qn9DgT and haproxy https://pastebin.com/JKbRb3kf
[16:55] <trupsalms> before changing ngnix back to default, i would receive unable to parse the request
[17:04] <sylario> Ok so I upgraded my ubuntu to 20.04 and it kernelm panic, I can go into recovery mode with network and an older kernel. How do I fix the newer kernel?
[17:05] <bippt> Could someone confirm for me that the yaru cursor theme is a black pointer and a white hand? ...I've been playing around with my themes and just want to make sure I didnt mess up the pointer.
[17:05] <ThinkT510> sylario: you'll need to find out what caused the panic
[17:06] <sylario> Upgrading from 18.04 to 20.04
[17:06] <sylario>  kernel panic not syncing vfs unable to mount root fs on unknown-block 0 0
[17:07] <bippt> I've tried searching for images on ddg but couldn't come up with anything substantive
[17:08] <leftyfb> sylario: apt-cache policy linux-generic-hwe-20.04  # do you have this installed?
[17:08] <arooni> running a backup for an eventual re-install; does rsync -gloptrunc $srcdir $dstdir ;  work for backing up things like /hom/ /var/ etc?
[17:08] <arooni> found that from https://serverfault.com/questions/25329/using-rsync-to-backup-to-an-external-drive
[17:09] <arooni> found an extra hard drive alread formatted with ext4 so will be using that so as to maintain file flags/permissions etc and using a ntfs usb drive with duplicati as an additional backup
[17:10] <leftyfb> arooni: rsync -av $srd $dst
[17:10] <leftyfb> arooni: do not just restore /etc/ after you rebuild. Pick and choose as needed
[17:11] <sylario> leftyfb : I have done a apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-generic linux-image , as soon as it's over i'll check your command
[17:11] <sylario> btw, I am using virtualbox
[17:11] <leftyfb> sylario: you should really just install the hwe kernel package I mentioned if it's not already
[17:11] <leftyfb> sylario: that is information you really need to provide
[17:11] <arooni> thanks leftyfb
[17:12] <oerheks> upgrading a vm from 18 to 20 ..
[17:12] <sylario> It cannot find linux-hwe-20.04
[17:12] <leftyfb> sylario: you probably want the linux-image-virtual-hwe-18.04 package then
[17:12] <leftyfb> sylario: linux-hwe-20.04 is not a package name
[17:12] <sylario> oerheks: I am not very skilled in Linux, can you elaborate.
[17:12] <sylario> ?
[17:13] <fantods> Yo, I'm having an odd issue with bluetooth controllers and pairing a bluetooth headset. It's a bit complicated because I have both a built-in bluetooth controller on my mobo and a USB controller and I dual boot windows 10 and Ubuntu. Whenever a boot into the other OS, I have to re-pair and it hasn't been working at all with Ubuntu recently.
[17:13] <leftyfb> sylario: if you're running Ubuntu 20.04 within virtualbox, then you probably want to install the linux-image-virtual-hwe-18.04 package
[17:14] <arooni> do i want to be rsync with; "rsync -av /home/ /otherplace/" or "rsync -av /home /otherplace/"
[17:14] <arooni> or does that not matter
[17:15] <leftyfb> arooni: do not put those quotes
[17:15] <sylario> I do not understand, cat /etc/issue show 20.04.2 LTS
[17:15] <arooni> oh i wasnt going to use qutoes
[17:15] <arooni> just was trying to give two different command examples
[17:15] <arooni> if the trailing / mattered or not
[17:15] <leftyfb> sylario: sorry, my fault linux-headers-virtual-hwe-20.04 is the package name
[17:16] <sylario> oerheks: why is it bad to update 18 to 20 in a VM ?
[17:16] <leftyfb> arooni: to make your life easier, always plan on using the trailing slash and make sure it's doing what you want
[17:16] <leftyfb> sylario: it's not bad
[17:17] <leftyfb> sylario: but it probably makes sense to have the hwe kernel installed before and after the upgrade
[17:17] <arooni> leftyfb: what can happen if i dont use the trailing slash?
[17:17] <arooni> it backs up more than whats asked for?
[17:17] <leftyfb> arooni: https://stackoverflow.com/a/31278462
[17:19] <LiveWire> that was just the dnsmasq fix from what I saw on the changelogs
[17:19] <sylario> leftyfb: thw, it boot now !
[17:19] <leftyfb> LiveWire: ?
[17:19] <sylario> Also my initial problem was a blank purple screen after login and 20.04 fixed that
[17:22] <sylario> and postgres,ruby,nginx and unicorn works as intended, so thx again
[17:32] <LiveWire> leftfb: sorry, wrong channel (router crap)
[18:47] <rneese> hey guys
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> welcome rneese
[18:48] <rneese> has anyone seen an thought about porting / packaging leftwm for ubuuntu
[18:51] <rneese> https://leftwm.org/
[19:41] <gartt> TigerVNC works fine for creating a new session for the client logging in, but is there any recommended VNC server for ubuntu that connects to a currently-running desktop session? For example, I'm on the physical box, I launch Firefox. I then go to another machine, VNC, and use that same Firefox instance
[19:45] <ruedii> Requiring registration to join the problem instead of to speak is a real problem.  It keeps the channel from connecting on startup while Nickserv is still processing the login.
[19:47] <ruedii> Who would I contact to get it changed to voice requires a registered login status from join?
[19:48] <InZaneGamer84> Ahoy!
[19:48] <krytarik> ruedii: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl - just set your client to use this.
[19:49] <InZaneGamer84> ruedii, or even better.  What was the source of all this madness? Why is FreeNode 'dead' now? There's no activity in the channels that use to be lively....
[19:52] <Maik> !discuss | InZaneGamer84
[19:52] <InZaneGamer84> Maik, thanks!
[19:53] <Maik> same for ruedii
[19:53] <Maik> ruedii: you could also ask in #freenode
[19:54] <furicle> I'm trying to install Ubuntu Server from the 20.04.2 iso.   It boots into a series of info about cloud-init, then stops.  The 'installer
[19:55] <furicle> I'm trying to install Ubuntu Server from the 20.04.2 iso.   It boots into a series of info about cloud-init, then stops.  The 'installer' never starts.  What am I missing?
[19:56] <furicle> There is no session on TTY1 (or 2,3 etc) although there's a glimmer like one is trying to start then goes away?
[19:56] <furicle> I've tried two different computers, and two different images (04.1 and 04.2)
[19:56] <furicle> I'm doing something wrong I think?
[19:56] <Maik> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-server#1-overview
[19:57] <Maik> furicle: maybe the guide has some answers, if not try asking in #ubuntu-server
[19:57] <furicle> I've read that -  it says, and I quote "After a few moments, you should see messages like those shown below on the screen…
[19:57] <furicle> "
[19:57] <ruedii> krytarik, I didn't know that SASL was supported on Freenode.  When I first used freenode they didn't support it.  (Long time ago.)
[19:57] <furicle> And I did try ubuntu-server the other day, no one responded..
[19:58] <ruedii> krytarik, thanks.
[19:58] <furicle> But I can try again.
[19:58] <Maik> furicle: otherwise try asking on the forums or askbuntu
[20:00] <oerheks> did you check the iso?
[20:00] <oerheks> !md5sum
[20:00] <Maik> SHA256 is used these days iirc
[20:02] <oerheks> and maybe some hardware specs, legacy mbr or UEFI
[20:08] <furicle> I tried it first on an (ancient) Q6600 desktop with 8 gig of ram (BIOS, blank drive)
[20:08] <furicle> When that didn't work I tried it on my daily driver laptop - 16G, UEFI Lenovo P series.   The two have nothing in common, and neither works.
[20:10] <InZaneGamer84> furicle, have you verified the ISO?
[20:10] <furicle> Yes, the checksums match.
[20:18] <InZaneGamer84> furicle, what exactly is it doing again?
[20:18] <InZaneGamer84> furicle, what kinda GPU?
[20:18] <InZaneGamer84> furicle, network card? type?
[20:19] <InZaneGamer84> post hardware specs
[20:21] <Maik> InZaneGamer84: he's in #ubuntu-server now. Discussing it in two channels at a time is a bit overkill.
[20:22] <InZaneGamer84> Maik oh ok. I curious, gonna listen in
[20:30] <rneese> OF: graph: no port node found in /i2c@ff3d0000/typec-portc@22
[20:34] <gazby> Followup from a couple of weeks ago: I gave up trying to have multiple ESPs and stop grub from messing up the efi boot entries. I have one disk with an ESP and if it happens to be the one that fails _knock on wood_ I'll have to use a bootable drive or something. Kept all the /boot and whatnot though, so will just be a couple of commands in grub to boot from either of them.
[20:42] <JivanPal> gazby: What's the situation? Multiple drives?
[20:43] <gazby> Yeah a raid-1 and I wanted to boot from either drive.  Running multiple OS's, or just Ubuntu?
[20:46] <semitones> I'm trying to find a copy of the ubuntu drums sound
[20:47] <semitones> all i can find are posts asking how to disable it :(
[20:48] <semitones> can someone send me their "/usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/system-ready.ogg"
[20:48] <gazby> JivanPal: Just Ubuntu
[20:53] <semitones> actually I think it is /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/desktop-login.ogg that I need?
[20:58] <kostkon> semitones, you could try   apt-get source ubuntu-sounds
[21:27] <strav> Hi! Was wondering if anyone with knowledge of EFI + grub could provide some help regarding grub reinstallation via chroot? (not entirely sure but it seems I installed new dell firmware on my laptop and it seems to have screwed the bootloader). Found fairly simple instructions online but I'm not quite sure about what needs to be mounted where in my particular setup.
[21:28] <JivanPal> Hello! You have Ubuntu installed, but can't boot from it?
[21:28] <oerheks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing#Reinstalling_GRUB_2
[21:29] <strav> Getting: no bootable drive found message when powering up. The drive seems fine. I booted from an external HD, can see my drive and partitions. I actually mounted the system partition and what I thought to be the efi one but then, got an error while doing grub-install. Came here so that I don't screw it further (I use this computer for work).
[21:30] <JivanPal> Since you have EFI, there's probably an entry in the EFI boot menu. Does pressing F12 on boot show an Ubuntu option?
[21:31] <strav> Nope, under uedi boot I have: linux firmware updater and Windows Boot Manager.
[21:31] <strav> *uefi
[21:31] <JivanPal> Okay — what OS are you booting externally?
[21:31] <strav> kde neon
[21:31] <strav> (the target computer is running plain ubuntu)
[21:32] <oerheks> there is also bootrepair
[21:32] <oerheks> !bootrepair
[21:32] <JivanPal> In KDE, can you mount the EFI system partition of the internal drive?
[21:32] <JivanPal> It's probably /dev/sda1
[21:32] <strav> oerheks: I tried boot repair but it didn't offered the option to actually repair the boot.
[21:32] <oerheks> not sure why a uefi bios upgrade would affect the efi partition
 Getting: no bootable drive found message when powering up.
[21:33] <strav> JivanPal: I think I did it last time. (After that I ran grub-install and got the error (it failed to find the EFI folder).
[21:33] <JivanPal> oerheks: Just checking whether the `ubuntu` dir is still on the ESP or not; if not, we can use grub-install, but if it is there still, then we can use efibootmgr to add an entry to the boot menu
[21:33] <strav> (just a sec, I'll boot with the external drive again)
[21:34] <oerheks> maybe boot is set to the wrong disk?
[21:34] <JivanPal> oerheks: strav says that the machine is only showing Windows and Linux firmware updater options
[21:34] <JivanPal> strav: do you actually have Windows installed on the internal drive?
[21:35] <strav> JivanPal: no. My suspicion is that the dell firmware upgrade I ran actually install windows mbr of messed with my boot partition somehow
[21:36] <JivanPal> It sounds like the Dell firmware assumes you have their OEM setup, i.e. Windows and nothing else, and that it's reset the EFI entries, detecting the `ubuntu` dir on the ESP, and added a default "Linux firmware updater" entry for that which doesn't actually do what it needs to
[21:37] <JivanPal> Anyway, once you're in KDE, mount the EFI System Partition (probably /dev/sda1), and see what's in the `EFI` folder
[21:37] <strav> JivanPal: yep this is pretty close to how I assumed
[21:37] <oerheks> contact dell?
[21:37] <strav> JivanPal: yep on route to do just that.
[21:38] <strav> oerheks: I contacted them, they bailed on me the moment I said it was for linux
[21:40] <strav> JivanPal: gparted sees my /dev/nvme0n1p1 with name: EFI system partition, file system: fat32 flags: boot, esp.
[21:40] <JivanPal> If you're confident that nvme0 is the internal drive, then that's gotta be the right partition
[21:41] <strav> JivanPal: yes I am pretty sure it is.
[21:41] <strav> I have two other partitions on the internal drive: the main system (luks encrypted) and another ext4 where, I believe the kernel images are stored.
[21:41] <strav> (trying to mount the encrypted partition and then will mount the EFI)
[21:43] <JivanPal> We don't need to worry about the LUKS partition, the other two concern us, mainly the ESP right now
[21:46] <strav> JivanPal: ok. (sorry was busying with mounting the luks (done))
[21:46] <JivanPal> No worries
[21:47] <strav> just mounted the EFI/esp partition
[21:48] <strav> it has a EFI folder and a grub folder at root (not sure the gurb is there from my previous failed attempt of grub-install)
[21:48] <strav> EFI has: BOOT, Dell and ubuntu
[21:49] <JivanPal> Wonderful, ubuntu is there. Go ahead and delete the grub folder at the root of the ESP, we don't need that
[21:49] <strav> done
[21:50] <JivanPal> I assume /dev/nvme0n1p2 is your unencrypted EXT4 partition? Have you mounted that?
[21:50] <strav> My encrypted system partition is nvme0n1p3, I mounted it at /mnt
[21:51] <JivanPal> Unencrypted :-)
[21:51] <strav> yes
[21:51] <JivanPal> Great, what's in that unencrypted partition? I assume it has a `grub` or `boot/grub` folder?
[21:53] <strav> Yes I just mounted it as well (/dev/nvme0n1p2) it has a bunch of initrd.img[...] files efi and grub folders
[21:53] <strav> efi is empty
[21:53] <JivanPal> Great, that's got your kernel images. The empty `efi` folder is where the ESP is normally mounted
[21:53] <strav> (grub has some grub related stuff in it)
[21:54] <strav> Nice! this is what I was trying to figure out when doing the chroot method.
[21:54] <JivanPal> Can you do `sudo efibootmgr -v` and pastebin.com the output?
[21:55] <strav> so I guess I mount system at /mnt, then mount this partition (p2) at /mnt/boot and then the ESP (p1) at /mnt/boot/efi?
[21:55] <JivanPal> You don't need to do any manual mounting — we just need to add an EFI boot entry that specifies where the EFISTUB loader is (it's on the ESP in the ubuntu dir)
[21:55] <JivanPal> The when you reboot, UEFI will load the EFISTUB loader, which in turn will be able to read the EXT4 partition and boot
[21:57] <strav> ok
[21:58] <JivanPal> Sorry, let me correct that explanation since you're using GRUB, not EFISTUB. We'll add an EFI entry specifying where `grubx64.efi` is (in that ubuntu dir), so that on boot, the UEFI can load GRUB
[21:58] <JivanPal> Anyway, let's see the output of `sudo efibootmgr -v` — take your time :-)
[21:59] <strav> https://pastebin.com/nHNRUXRG
[21:59] <JivanPal> I'll be AFK for about 10 minutes
[22:07] <lt> is there any mirror to download ubuntu 20 32bit?
[22:07] <jeremy31> lt: there isn't a 32 bit version
[22:08] <monaco> lt: as I know there is not supported anymore 32bit architecture but you can use this https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/i386/ it still exists and it's perfect for old devices
[22:08] <oerheks> 5
[22:08] <oerheks> Standard Ubuntu flavour has dropped 32-bit installer for the 18.04 release aka Bionic Beaver (actually since the 17.10 release), but rest of the Ubuntu flavours still support 32-bit systems.
[22:09] <oerheks> https://askubuntu.com/a/1127409
[22:10] <lt> same with version 18?
[22:10] <oerheks> or the mini iso..
[22:11] <oerheks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[22:15] <oerheks> 32 bit, you will have trouble finding a browser, like firefox
[22:15] <oerheks> * as snap
[22:16] <Vhost> hi
[22:18] <strav> JivanPal: search for it a bit, so we'll be using something in the likes of: efibootmgr -c -d /dev/sda -p 7 -L <label> -l \EFI\<label>\grubx64.efi ? (where <label> would be ubuntu and /dev/sda be replaced with /dev/nvme0)?
[22:18] <JivanPal> strav: I'm back now
[22:18] <JivanPal> Haha, good timing
[22:19] <JivanPal> Yup, basically, I was just about to give you the exact command
[22:19] <strav> (please go ahead, some options there I have no clue about)
[22:20] <JivanPal> sudo efibootmgr -c -d /dev/nvme0 -p 2 -L ubuntu --loader '\EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi'
[22:20] <Vhost> need help https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MTXCqDXwPH/
[22:21] <JivanPal> Sorry, -p 1, not -p 2
[22:21] <JivanPal> sudo efibootmgr -c -d /dev/nvme0 -p 1 -L ubuntu --loader '\EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi'
[22:22] <JivanPal> -c is --create
[22:22] <JivanPal> -d is --disk
[22:22] <JivanPal> -p is --partition
[22:22] <JivanPal> -L is --label, which will appear in the EFI boot menu
[22:22] <JivanPal> -l (lowercase L) is --loader, which is the EFI program you want to run
[22:22] <strav> excellent, I was about to ask if -p was the partition number
[22:22] <JivanPal> Let's see output of `sudo efibootmgr -v` again afterwards so that we can check the entry and set your boot order properly
[22:23] <strav> So worst thing that can happen with this command is that I create a faulty efi entry (which can be deleted afterwards), right?
[22:23] <JivanPal> Indeed
[22:23] <oerheks> !find libtls
[22:23] <strav> ok running it
[22:24] <oerheks> Vhost, what are you building?
[22:24] <strav> JivanPal: the command confusingly returned: Could not prepare Boot variable: Success
[22:25] <Vhost> oerheks https://git.causal.agency/catgirl/about/
[22:25] <strav> (checking efibootmgr -v at this moment)
[22:25] <JivanPal> Never seen that before, it may be that the language your Dell's EFI speaks is nonstandard. Usually, there is no output on success
[22:26] <strav> JivanPal: efibootmgr -v seems to output the same entries as before.
[22:27] <JivanPal> Right, probably means that efibootmgr can't talk to the EFI chip, or that the EFI protocol your Dell now speaks (probably by virtue of the firmware upgrade, since your setup was working before) is proprietary and unsupported by efibootmgr
[22:28] <JivanPal> by "can't talk to", I mean "the hardware isn't permitting it to talk to"
[22:28] <jeremy31> strav: you do still have Windows installed?
[22:28] <strav> jeremy31: never had
[22:28] <JivanPal> Doesn't seem anywhere near as likely as the latter scenario, though
[22:29] <JivanPal> If a firmware downgrade is possible, looks like you'll need to go down that route
[22:29] <JivanPal> What's the machine's model number?
[22:29] <JivanPal> Dell may support Linux on it, you'll just need to get through to the right person
[22:29] <jeremy31> strav: the efibootmgr output showed a Windows entry
[22:29] <JivanPal> Whatever Dell support you said you spoke to earlier probably just isn't qualified for Linux support
[22:29] <strav> hmmm Wondering if there might be an option in the bios to do the equivalent of the efibootmgr command?
[22:29] <strav> (precision 5540)
[22:30] <JivanPal> strav: almost certainly not. If you had Windows, you could use its BOOTCFG command, which would almost certainly work
[22:30] <JivanPal> Doesn't hurt to have a look though, I suppose
[22:31] <JivanPal> jeremy31: we suspect that entry ended up there because of the Dell UEFI/firmware upgrade which caused the problem in the first place
[22:31] <oerheks> Vhost, provided by LibreTLS (for OpenSSL) or by LibreSSL .. i have no clue why it needs such dependencies, those are not in our repositories.
[22:31] <strav> JivanPal: They also have some kind of support assist for os recovery, maybe there is an option in there.
[22:32] <strav> JivanPal: also, you think it might be worth it to try to install a new version of efibootmgr on my kde neon disk?
[22:32] <JivanPal> You should definitely get Ubuntu tech support from Dell for the Precision line
[22:33] <JivanPal> They have OEM Ubuntu images if you wish to use those
[22:33] <JivanPal> Perhaps they have better support, but that's really just a wild hope from me
[22:33] <jeremy31> Dell might have something in BIOS/UEFI to add a trusted EFI file
[22:33] <JivanPal> https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/osiso/linux
[22:34] <JivanPal> strav: re efibootmgr update, it's worth a shot, but it should likely only depend on the efi drivers on your system
[22:34] <JivanPal> Perhaps an apt upgrade will give you newer drivers as well and then efibootmgr will magically work, but I doubt it
[22:35] <JivanPal> We can definitely get into Ubuntu via whatever method you used to boot KDE Neon, though, so you could try that
[22:35] <strav> JivanPal: ok, trying the package upgrade for efibootmgr then I'll reboot in bios to see if there is any option there.
[22:35] <JivanPal> I assume you chose external drive in the boot menu and then it launched GRUB from the external drive or something?
[22:35] <strav> JivanPal: yes
[22:36] <JivanPal> Well, if no luck with efibootmgr or BIOS/UEFI options, then we can use the GRUB command line
[22:36] <JivanPal> That will definitely work, unless you're cursed
[22:37] <strav> : )
[22:42] <JivanPal> Ultimately, if you can't get efibootmgr to work (e.g. by downgrading the firmware or getting Dell to tell you how to fix it), you'll either have to use an USB drive to bootstrap like we might need to now with the external GRUB, or enable CSM and use MBR rather than GPT.
[22:43] <strav> tried the full system upgrade, no success. Rebooting in bios
[22:43] <JivanPal> If you end up in that situation, it may be worth contacting Rod Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>he's the expert on these matters and so might have an alternative solution
[22:44] <JivanPal> He also hangs around on StackExchange / Ask Ubuntu, so if you ask a question about this situation there, you might a good answer from him or someone else
[22:45] <strav> Ok in the bios, I see a section for boot sequence where it lists linux firmware updater and windows boot manager. I have also the option to add another boot option there.
[22:45] <JivanPal> Ah, wow, lovely!
[22:46] <JivanPal> Hopefully that lets us do what we need
[22:46] <jeremy31> See if you can get it to efi/ubuntu/
[22:46] <JivanPal> If you can select the grubx64.efi file in EFI/ubuntu, then you're good to go
[22:47] <strav> Can defined a boot option name, then there is a file system list (seems read only) with a bunch of specs: PCIRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x1D), etc. Below that I can browse for a file name...
[22:48] <strav> (there I can browse to \EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi)
[22:48] <JivanPal> Wonderful, choose that, use "ubuntu" as the boot option name, and save, then you should be good after moving that new "ubuntu" item to the top of the list, or rebooting, pressing F12, and choosing "ubuntu"
[22:49] <strav> Just added it and made it first priority in the boot order. Fingers crossed.
[22:49] <strav> oh yeah.
[22:50] <strav> success
[22:50] <JivanPal> Wahey!
[22:50] <Bashing-om> !cookie | JivanPal
[22:51] <JivanPal> Hahaha, when did the cookie thing get introduced?
[22:51] <jeremy31> They are oatmeal raisin cookies
[22:51] <JivanPal> I haven't been on IRC regularly in like 7 years, this is news to me xD
[22:51] <JivanPal> Can always do with more fibre, cheers
[22:52] <strav> Thx so much JivanPal. The explanations you gave really helped.
[22:52] <JivanPal> No prob, happy to help :-)
[22:52] <strav> (I almost feel like I somehow have a glimpse of knowing what I just did ;)
[22:52] <JivanPal> Haha
[22:53] <JivanPal> Here's some good reading if you want to know more: https://www.happyassassin.net/posts/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/
[22:53] <strav> Have an excellent evening. (I wish there was a "buy some pal a beer around the world" app somewhere).
[22:53] <JivanPal> Bookmarked that a few years ago
[22:53] <JivanPal> Am I allowed to plug my PayPal? xD
[22:54] <strav> Yea, it is not the first time I lose the bootloader on linux (but the first time I deal with EFI).
[22:54] <strav> JivanPal: sure!
[22:54] <jeremy31> JivanPal: no paypal links
[23:12] <coffeeroaster> Silly quetsion: Desktop shortcut stopped working. Any tips to fix?
[23:14] <oerheks> does the target exist? does it already run? check the logs or dmesg/jounalctrl
[23:19] <coffeeroaster> oerheks: yep target exists. Other shortcuts allow "Allow Launching" when you right click. This one stopped having that option.
[23:20] <JivanPal> Sounds like the target lost execute permissions. What is the output of `ls -l` on the target path?
[23:21] <tripelb> 20.04 I've had two different browsers do the same thing so I know it's an Ubuntu problem. I'm pretty sure there's a keystroke to get me out of it.--  There's no top line and the window fills the entire screen and the escape key does not get me out of it. This happened in Firefox and in
[23:21] <tripelb>  chrome so it's clearly not a problem with an app / program. I appreciate any help
[23:22] <coffeeroaster> JivanPal: 755
[23:22] <JivanPal> coffeeroaster: Beats me, then, sorry
[23:23] <JivanPal> tripelb: Is the window just bigger than the screen and you need to be able to drag to move it, or is the window decoration (the bit with the close button etc.) just missing completely?
[23:37] <Peppi> hello
[23:37] <InZaneGamer84> hiya!
[23:38] <Peppi> trying to get my network card working on an old laptop: HP pavilion dv4
[23:39] <InZaneGamer84> ok which issues do you wanna address first?
[23:39] <InZaneGamer84> the network or gpu?
[23:39] <Peppi> network... the gpu is working fine... I assume you are talking to me InZaneGamer84
[23:40] <InZaneGamer84> Peppi indeed
[23:40] <InZaneGamer84> terminal output of nic hardware?
[23:40] <Peppi> I had it working at one point but every time I shutdown the machine it would revert back to losing networking
[23:40] <Peppi> I want to solve it once and for all
[23:41] <InZaneGamer84> sounds like you need to blacklist the module
[23:41] <Peppi> I have a realtek-r8101 I think
[23:42] <Peppi> actually how do I find out the network hardare I have?
[23:42] <Peppi> to be sure?
[23:42] <InZaneGamer84> ok give me a min to look up some stuff
[23:43] <Peppi> lol doing the same thing
[23:43] <jeremy31> Peppi: in terminal>  lspci -nnk | grep -iA3 net
[23:43] <InZaneGamer84> mhwd --pci
[23:43] <InZaneGamer84> or that ^
[23:44] <InZaneGamer84> whoops wrong channel
[23:46] <Peppi> jeremy31, & InZaneGamer84 ya so RTL810xE
[23:49] <Peppi> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1195475/ethernet-controllers-not-working-realtek-rtl810xe-realtek-rtl8111
[23:51] <Peppi> so how do I go about uninstalling the r8101 and the r8168-dkms driver?
[23:54] <oerheks> last answer points to https://github.com/ghostrider-reborn/realtek-r8101-linux-driver


[01:34] <aJynks> #xbmc
[01:34] <aJynks> mt
[02:32] <pteague> any way i can run the install disk & see the output from attempting "try xubuntu" instead of the uninformative graphic screen that just sits there? had a power outage today & having issues getting the box to boot past a certain point so popped my live cd in (used it to install the box i'm having issues with now, my work laptop, & this box so i know it works) & i get the language selection screen, & then i choose "try xubuntu" i get the n
[02:32] <pteague> ice black xubuntu screen & doesn't do anything else
[02:33] <pteague> hah, nm... i just realized something... it's 1 of my boxes with the bad dvd drive i was going to replace...
[03:10] <mistere357> new xubuntu user here with a question... how do I connect to a samba server?  In Ubuntu there is a "Connect to Server" option but I don't see it here
[03:11] <mistere357> I hasten to add that Google searches have not been of any help
[03:15] <mistere357> must go to sleep... back later
[03:55] <jimisrvrox> hey guys anybody good with Samba? Im trying to get my Windoze box to client to my Linux samba share..
[04:03] <charlie-tca> !samba
[04:08] <TrueNhero> what is wmdock??
[04:11] <shrmn> !wmdock
[04:11] <shrmn> hmm.
[04:11] <shrmn> oh, a pm
[04:12] <shrmn> apparently it doesn't know anything about wmdock and is too embarassed to say so publicly.
[04:16] <moetunes> heh
[04:19] <shrmn> I am a noob, too. Just thought I'd give it a try. Found this on Google: http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-wmdock-plugin
[04:19] <shrmn> I guess it is true. The people trying to help you don't know much more than you. I installed xubuntu on Saturday.
[04:20] <moetunes> I have never heard anything referred to as a wmdock in 6 years of linux use
[04:22] <charlie-tca> !info wmdock
[04:23] <moetunes> !find wmdock
[04:23] <moetunes> seems like it is a pretty specific type of app then
[04:34] <shrmn> A gadget dock for xfce wm
[04:34] <shrmn> it appears
[11:55] <share> sup
[11:58] <knome> hello
[13:15] <ubuXubu> good morning
[13:16] <aindigo> Hello all
[13:16] <aindigo> I have a problem related to Pidgin
[13:16] <aindigo> Received unexpected response from https://api.oscar.aol.com/aim/startOSCARSession: Invalid requested host
[13:17] <aindigo> Could anybody help please?
[13:18] <aindigo> Nobody use Pidgin?
[13:18] <knome> aindigo, try disabling SSL
[13:19] <aindigo> It's the same.
[13:19] <knome> did you restart pidgin after disabling?
[13:19] <aindigo> No
[13:20] <knome> maybe try that
[13:20] <knome> also, there is a bug #506647 about that
[13:20] <knome> search for "mc-tool" in the page, maybe that comment could help...
[13:21] <knome> other than those, i have no ideas since i don't use pidgin often, and even when i do, not with oscar/aol
[13:24] <aindigo> No good result. Server is login.messaging.aol.com
[13:24] <aindigo> SSL is disabled
[13:24] <aindigo> :-(
[13:32] <B-r00t> aindigo: try to get new version 2.7.7 http://www.pidgin.im/download/ubuntu/
[13:33] <aindigo> In process
[13:34] <aindigo> I need to reboot.
 I have updated to  the latest ver. and it works now but without encryption. Thanks!
[13:57] <B-r00t> np
[13:58] <aindigo> I cant change server from login.icq.com
[13:58] <aindigo> It's new bug :)
[13:59] <B-r00t> xD
[14:00] <aindigo> I found solution. Need to disable account first. xD
[14:02] <aindigo> Thanks for help again
[14:28] <nicofs> Is there a way to speed up the boot process for pcs with SSD?
[14:29] <Sysi> what kind of SSD
[14:30] <Sysi> enabling TRIM-support is possible, but i'm not completely sure if it's riskful if hardware doesn't support it properly
[14:30] <nicofs> OCZ Vertex, SATA, 2.5" 60GB.
[14:31] <nicofs> it says "Trim support" on the box...
[14:33] <Sysi> it should be pretty darn fast already out of box
[14:33] <Sysi> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives#Mount_Flags
[14:34] <nicofs> Sysi: well... not really - at least not as much as I expected... but since installing the SSD, I did not change any settings...
[14:34] <Sysi> netbook?
[14:35] <Sysi> atom is slow, on my dualcore this really flies
[14:36] <nicofs> netbook and pc... will compare^^
[14:36] <nicofs> vorhin war er da
[14:37] <nicofs> sorry, wrong window
[15:11] <nicofs> Sysi: my boot time with ssd on a netbook now is about 25sec from pressing the "on" button. is that ok?
[15:35] <vin0> hello
[15:37] <vin0> what is graphical interface for vino?
[15:48] <share> :>
[20:55] <shrmn> Can anyone point me to a good guide for paring xubuntu down more?
[21:42] <Rakko> My Xubuntu 10.10 is up to date (as of yesterday), and plymouth keeps hanging the computer. When this happens, my display goes blank and the monitor's power light is amber. I can kill it with magic sysrq, but if I do that I can't boot into gdm. If I don't pass "splash" on the kernel command line, everything runs fine. Is this a known problem? Is there a fix?
[21:44] <Rakko> plymouth was already causing this problem even before I did last night's updates; I updated because I thought it might fix it. But probably a week ago plymouth ran fine.
[21:44] <charlie-tca> Rakko, sounds like incompatibility between plymouth and your video card. The known fix/workaround is remove splash
[21:44] <Rakko> right
[21:44] <charlie-tca> If you edit /etc/default/grub , you can remove splash and not have to do that for each boot
[21:45] <Rakko> I'd like to have the splash, though
[21:45] <Rakko> maybe I should downgrade my plymouth packages, you think?
[21:45] <charlie-tca> Not unless you want other issues
[21:45] <Rakko> my video card is some sort of onboard Radeon... something like X300. I'm not at the computer to check right now.
[21:46] <Sysi> having no splash don't by default bring wall of text back
[21:46] <Rakko> It used to work flawlessly
[21:46] <Sysi> what if you press M when it hangs?
[21:48] <Rakko> I haven't tried it. What's M supposed to do?
[21:48] <Sysi> mounting problems, fstab, can cause that kind of issue
[21:49] <Rakko> oh, where it gives the option to skip or do manual recovery? I'm not getting that
[21:49] <Sysi> it won't necessarily show up
[21:49] <Rakko> I was getting that a few days ago, when I had obsolete entries in fstab. But they're gone now
[21:50] <Rakko> I have a bug to file on that one, too
[21:52] <Rakko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/575808 looks like my problem; same video card
[21:52] <Rakko> this says it's occasional... maybe I just hadn't ever experienced it before
[22:04] <Rakko> how do I start xubuntu using a regular VGA console instead of the framebuffer one?
[22:16] <Sunnis> hi? I am new to xubuntu..  was followinf instructions on sharing a drive on the network with windows computers..
[22:18] <Sunnis> did shares-admin in terminal.. the instructions say to set the drive as SMB but I don't get that option
[22:19] <Sunnis> i can only choose nfs
[22:19] <charlie-tca> You installed samba?
[22:20] <Sunnis> what is samba?
[22:21] <charlie-tca> samba is what you need for SMB
[22:21] <charlie-tca> !samba
[22:21] <Sunnis> ahh cool thanks
[22:21] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[22:22] <Sunnis> ok i installed samba but it does not show up in the program menu
[22:23] <charlie-tca> As far as I know, samba does not show in the menu. It is an interface to the windows drive
[22:23] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
[22:24] <Sunnis> oh... that is not what i am trying to do
[22:24] <Sunnis> I am not trying to mount a windows drive here.. I have an ntfs partition on this hard drive I want to share on a network
[22:26] <Rakko> you need to mount the ntfs and then use samba to serve it
[22:26] <shrmn> Can anyone point me to a good guide for paring xubuntu down more? I am trying to get it using less resources.
[22:27] <charlie-tca> shrmn, google?
[22:28] <shrmn> I've been finding 10.04 guides. Is there much that will get me hung up if I am using 10.10?
[22:28] <charlie-tca> should be about the same
[22:29] <Sunnis> it is mounted.. how do i use samba to share it?
[22:32] <Rakko> charlie-tca: what search terms would you google?
[22:32] <Rakko> Sunnis: look for a samba howto
[22:33] <Rakko> Samba has a web interface that sets up shares for you. I haven't used it in several years, though (or samba at all)
[22:34] <charlie-tca> Rakko, I guess "xubuntu lighter"? I don't really know, since I wouldn't do it
[22:34] <Rakko> xubuntu is plenty light for me so far
[22:34] <Rakko> I only have 1 GB of RAM and it's faster than my Macbook
[22:35] <Rakko> which has 2
[22:35] <shrmn> I'm on a pIII 933mhz 512 mb ram so I am just trying to eek out as much performance as I can.
[22:35] <Rakko> of course my MB is only 32-bit too
[22:35] <Rakko> 'eek' is right ;)
[22:35] <shrmn> Don't even know if I'd actually slice anything off.
[22:36] <charlie-tca> I would think the proper way to do it is start with the minimal install, and add enough pieces to make everything work
[22:37] <shrmn> Well, when I looked over the minimal install page on the ubuntu wiki, it was talking about 100mhz procs and 64mb ram so I figured I was good for a base install of xubuntu with my specs
[22:37] <shrmn> I'm going to give a try to things like switching to Midori from Firefox a try before I get too involved.
[22:38] <charlie-tca> Your specs should be good for a standard Xubuntu install.
[22:38] <shrmn> I'm reasonably happy with the performance. Just a constant tweaker is all.
[22:41] <moetunes> I find an improvement from not using a *dm
[22:42] <charlie-tca> Try different browsers; epiphany and midori, try removing games, try different themes in appearance and window manager, remove apps you won't use, like gimp and abiword and gnumeric
[22:43] <Sysi> use the adblock of midori
[22:43] <shrmn> Definitely. Good tips.
[22:44] <shrmn> midori + adblock is my first stop.
[22:44] <Rakko> I'd never heard of midori
[22:45] <Rakko> I used to like Galeon back in the day... that was nice and fast. Also Skipstone, but I never used it much.
[22:46] <Rakko> I wonder how Chrome does on a bottom-of-the-line computer
[22:47] <Sysi> chromium uses way too much memory
[22:47] <Sysi> (with multiple tabs)
[22:52] <shrmn> I was surprised by how much of a memory hog chromium/chrome is.
[22:52] <shrmn> midori is lightweight webkit browser.
[23:04] <Rakko> nice. will have to check it out.


[14:20] <mhall119> good morning
[14:22] <alkisg> Good morning
[14:25] <mhall119> so it looks like there are lots of good games available in Lucid
[14:29] <mhall119> just found gnomekiss
[14:40] <mhall119> holy crap, paper dolls with nipples is _NOT_ child appropriate
[17:28] <Ahmuck> is there a way to build a custom script so that it removes/installs programs upon installation before a full first time boot?
[17:34] <bdoin> it is each to make a script that does 'apt-get install' and 'apt-get remove'. To make it run once there are probably several options
[17:35] <bdoin>  /it is each/ it is easy/
[18:04] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: Yeah, just a shell script
[18:04] <sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
[18:04] <sbalneav> apt-get purge package package package
[18:04] <sbalneav> etc.
[19:02] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: then just call it at the tail end of a preseeding
[19:03] <sbalneav> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.i386/apb.html
[22:29] <XuzhouJim> Edubuntu terminal server didn't work out of the box as planned!! so now I need to trouble shoot but can't seem to find a good starting point. Maybe the problem was a amd64 image was created but dhcp is pointing to i386. BUT changed dhcp.conf to point to the amd64.img. still no go.
[23:07] <sbalneav> Evening all
[23:15] <Tm_T> that
[23:27] <sbalneav> That what? :)
[23:31] <highvoltage> that! "evening"!


[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reveiwers meeting.  who's here today?
[15:00] <bigjools> me
[15:00] <bac`> me
[15:00] <allenap> me
[15:00] <gmb> me
[15:00] <adeuring> me
[15:00] <salgado> me
[15:00] <henninge> me
[15:00] <jtv> me
[15:01] <beuno> me
[15:01] <intellectronica> me
[15:01] <mars> me
[15:02] <flacoste> me
[15:02] <barry> BjornT: ping
[15:02] <barry> cprov: ping
[15:02] <barry> danilos: ping
[15:02] <barry> EdwinGrubbs: ping
[15:02] <cprov> me
[15:02] <danilos> me
[15:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:03] <barry> rockstar: ping
[15:03] <barry> sinzui: ping
[15:03] <sinzui> me
[15:03] <barry> i think that's everyone
[15:03] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:03] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:03] <barry>  * Action items
[15:03] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:03] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:03] <barry>    * naming of unittest methods (Camel``Case or under_scores) (henninge)
[15:03] <barry>    * order of assert parameters (expected, observed) (hennige)
[15:03] <barry>  * Driving maintainable Javascript code (intellectronica)
[15:03] <barry>   * Modularization and unit testing are strongly encouraged
[15:03] <barry>   * Refactoring code after a UI review is often a good idea
[15:03] <barry>   * The upper limit for JS diffs is 1600 lines (because javascript is so verbose)
[15:03] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[15:04] <barry> i think the only one outstanding is gary's and he's away today
[15:04] <barry> so...
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:04] <barry> i think we have just one mentored reviewer left, and noodles isn't here today
[15:04] <barry> so...
[15:05] <barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
[15:05] <barry>    * naming of unittest methods (Camel``Case or under_scores) (henninge)
[15:05] <barry>    * order of assert parameters (expected, observed) (hennige)
[15:05] <barry> henninge: the floor is yours
[15:05] <henninge> Hi
[15:05] <henninge> Yesterday cprov and I ran into this discussion about how to name unittest methods.
[15:06] <henninge> I have always done test_the_frobnob, while his branch had testTheFrobnob
[15:06] <henninge> The argument is: Coding style for methods is CamelCase
[15:06] <cprov> yes, and I've used CamelCase for most of the soyuz unittest, and it's not looking good.
[15:07] <salgado> isn't the policy to use test_methodName()?
[15:07] <intellectronica> i have a feeling of deja vu
[15:07]  * barry would greatly prefer anything make makes us more pep 8-y
[15:07] <intellectronica> salgado: exactly
[15:07] <mars> I thought unit_tests_were_the_exception?
[15:07] <henninge> but these methods are never called directly and only appear in test runner
[15:07] <henninge> output
[15:07] <bigjools> salgado: +1
[15:07] <jtv> this was changed a few months back, but I don't remember what it was changed to exactly.
[15:07] <gmb> barry: +1
[15:07] <flacoste> we already discussed that
[15:08] <flacoste> the convention for unit test is:
[15:08] <flacoste> test_methodName_with_particular_condition
[15:08] <bac`> flacoste: that's what i remember too.
[15:08] <henninge> ah, that was my faint memory, too.
[15:08] <flacoste> we had this discussion like 6-8 months ago
[15:08] <barry> flacoste: yes
[15:08] <salgado> When testing a specific Launchpad method, a mix of PEP 8 and camel case is
[15:08] <salgado> used, e.g. test_fooBarBaz()
[15:08] <bigjools> is it not in the style guide?
[15:08] <flacoste> barry: somebody should have updated the wiki ;-)
[15:09] <salgado> https://dev.launchpad.net/TestsStyleGuide#Functional and Unit Tests
[15:09] <salgado> flacoste, it's there!
[15:09] <salgado> In general, you should follow Launchpad coding conventions (see PythonStyleGuide), however when naming test methods:
[15:09] <salgado> ...
[15:09] <flacoste> perfect!
[15:09] <barry> flacoste: time machine activated!
[15:09]  * bigjools sees a rapid end to the discussion coming
[15:09] <flacoste> anybody wants to rehash this?
[15:09] <cprov> cool, problem solved.
[15:09] <henninge> second item
[15:10] <henninge> I have seen that LaunchpadTestCase uses assert(expected, observed)
[15:10] <henninge> and have used the asserts that way.
[15:10] <henninge> But I see a lot of (obseved, expected).
[15:11] <barry> henninge: +1 for (expected, observed)
[15:11] <henninge> barry: me, too
[15:11] <bigjools> do you mean assertEqual?
[15:11] <henninge> is there a guide line for that already?
[15:11] <intellectronica> i don't understand
[15:11] <henninge> bigjools: yeah
[15:11] <henninge> oh sorry, I meant assert*(e,o)
[15:12] <henninge> btw, I found out that not everybody knows about LaunchpadTestCase
[15:12] <salgado> intellectronica, self.assertEquals(sut_output, 'what I expect') instead of self.assertEquals('what I expect', sut_output)
[15:12] <barry> henninge: could you please update https://dev.launchpad.net/TestsStyleGuide
[15:12] <intellectronica> i don't think it's worth having a policy on that. it doesn't matter
[15:13] <bigjools> I don't either
[15:13] <salgado> agreed
[15:13] <barry> actually, i think it's better to be consistent because it's easier to debug
[15:13] <bigjools> how does it make it easier?
[15:13] <barry> bigjools: you have to think less when you see failing output
[15:14] <henninge> yes, it's for clarity.
[15:14] <intellectronica> if you want to make it really easy you can do `expected = expr \n observed = expr \n assertEqual(expected, observed)`
[15:15] <henninge> intellectronica: true
[15:15] <bigjools> yeah, I quite like that style
[15:15] <henninge> that is fine by me, too.
[15:15] <barry> intellectronica: it would be better to have that in the framework
[15:15] <intellectronica> but again, i don't think we should force this. just remember that it's a possibility
[15:15] <bigjools> I think encouraged but not enforced
[15:15] <barry> just sayin', all things being equal, we prefer (expected, observed)
[15:15] <bac`> bigjools: +1
[15:16] <barry> bigjools: +1
[15:16] <henninge> bigjools: +1
[15:16]  * bigjools is not used to this many people agreeing with him
[15:16] <barry> henninge: can you capture this in the wiki?
[15:16] <henninge> barry: will do
[15:17] <barry> [ACTION] henninge to capture decision on assert*(expected, observed) preference in wiki
[15:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  henninge to capture decision on assert*(expected, observed) preference in wiki
[15:17] <barry> henninge: thanks!
[15:17] <henninge> np
[15:17] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Driving maintainable Javascript code (intellectronica)
[15:17] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Driving maintainable Javascript code (intellectronica)
[15:17] <barry>   * Modularization and unit testing are strongly encouraged
[15:17] <barry>   * Refactoring code after a UI review is often a good idea
[15:17] <barry>   * The upper limit for JS diffs is 1600 lines (because javascript is so verbose)
[15:17] <intellectronica> what a stupid title. i should be shot
[15:17] <barry> intellectronica: why? because of the oxymoron? :)
[15:18]  * bigjools chuckles
[15:18] <barry> intellectronica: the floor is yours
[15:18] <intellectronica> in the last ajax swat team meeting, we rockstar and deryck led a discussion about how to produce better (more maintainable, easier to test) javascript code
[15:18] <intellectronica> we made several observations:
[15:19] <intellectronica> 1. code that is OO and modularized is much easier to work with than code that is very imperative and/or relies on closure too heavily
[15:19] <intellectronica> 2. unit tests (aka YUI tests) are a great way to test our code. in many cases much better than integration tests
[15:20] <intellectronica> 3. working on UI features it is often easier to first concentrate on completing a working UI than on code quality
[15:20] <intellectronica> that's fine, but it means that we should refactor the code immediately after it passes UI review
[15:20] <intellectronica> that can happen either before code review, or if not, the reviewer should encourage doing that (either as part of this branch or in a followup branch)
[15:21] <intellectronica> finally, since javascript code is so much more verbose, we propose a much higher limit, in order to encourage developers to not skip these important steps
[15:21] <flacoste> one of those being writing unit tests
[15:21] <intellectronica> we think 1600 lines (double the limit we have for python) is reasonable
[15:22] <barry> intellectronica: how can we get more assistance in making our js work correctly, and be more consistent?  although everyone i've asked for help has been very helpful, i still often feel like i'm just hacking in the dark until it works
[15:22] <flacoste> just unit tests can talk 2/3 of your branch size
[15:22] <barry> intellectronica: when you say "javascript unit test" you're not talking about windmill, right?
[15:22] <barry> or are you?
[15:23] <intellectronica> barry: to some extent, we are all a bit in the dark, discovering how to best go about this. discussions in #rhinos and on the canonical-javascript mailing list are a good way to exchange ideas
[15:23] <mars> barry, yuitest, not windmill
[15:23] <intellectronica> barry: no. we're talking about in-page unit tests using the yuitest framework
[15:23] <barry> intellectronica: fair enough :)
[15:23] <intellectronica> you'll be glad to learn that they are much easier to write and execute
[15:23] <barry> mars: i don't know anything about yuitest.  where can i learn and/or where are good examples in our code?
[15:24] <flacoste> lazr-js/src/*/tests
[15:24] <barry> intellectronica: that would make me very very happy :)
[15:24] <sinzui> where are these unit tests in our tree?
[15:24] <intellectronica> barry: see lib/canonical/launchpad/javascript/soyuz/tests for example
[15:24] <mars> barry, right now the best examples are in lazr-js itself, but others will be landing examples in launchpad soon
/javascript/*/tests
[15:24] <intellectronica> also all widgets in lazr-js have tests
[15:24] <flacoste> currently,only the soyuz module has some
[15:24] <flacoste> yep lazr-js/src/*/tests
[15:24] <barry> cool, thanks, i will be looking at those for the branch i'm currently working on
[15:25] <flacoste> unit tests are really "unit" tests
[15:25] <flacoste> no Launchpad
[15:25] <flacoste> only DOM and you code
[15:25] <flacoste> and it's an self-created DOM
[15:25] <mars> barry, btw, the test infrastructure is open for hacking and improvement.  Please feel free to stop the pain :)
[15:25] <sinzui> So I believe lp_dynamic_dom_updater.js is the only Launchpad test in our tree
[15:25] <flacoste> in lauchpad, yes
[15:25] <flacoste> lazr-js has tons of them
[15:25] <intellectronica> so you still need to do some integration testing, but the advantage is that they encourage you to do a good job on modularizing your code
[15:26] <barry> mars: i will as soon as i can localize it.  right now, it's mostly a full-body numbing throb.  :)
[15:27] <barry> i think the other problem is that anything touching js just takes WAY more time to develop.  i don't think it's entirely the fault of not being as familiar with js.  it's a function of the ui 90/10 rule and the fact that yui documentation is lousy
[15:27]  * barry knows he's just ranting
[15:28] <intellectronica> barry: that, and the fact that we're all still learning. i bet in a couple of years we'll all be js/yui wizards. it takes time to build competency
[15:28] <mars> barry, thankfully we have started to work on that. intellectronica's process improvements are an important step towards speeding things up
[15:28] <barry> intellectronica: true.  though, we need to keep that in mind when estimating story points and such
[15:29] <sinzui> intellectronica: so your saying in a couple of year javascript will require less keystrokes to code?
[15:29] <barry> mars: yes, and they are greatly appreciated.  our velocity will certainly improve over time
[15:29] <mars> sinzui, yes, actually
[15:29]  * beuno yells from the back "FASTER!  FASTER!"
[15:29] <intellectronica> sinzui: i'm sure in a couple of years you will have written enough gedit plugins to automate most of the crud :)
[15:29] <sinzui> I guess the soyuz team won't notice since their class names exceed the line limit
[15:30]  * barry mumbles "dabbrev"
[15:30]  * sinzui pines for Javascript 1.7/ECMA ??
[15:30] <bigjools> at least we have tests!
[15:30] <mars> sinzui, you want ECMA 3.1 :)
[15:30] <intellectronica> i think we digress. maybe we should start a js coder support group for ranting...
[15:30] <intellectronica> is everyone cool with the increase in diff limit (and understands why it's necessary)?
[15:30] <barry> intellectronica: yes :)
[15:31] <sinzui> I think YUI looks to Java for inspirtation where are Javascript 1.7 looks to Python
[15:31] <mars> sinzui, not the cloaked OO pining of 4.X ;)
[15:31] <barry> intellectronica: it does make it more difficult to review, but it does make sense.
[15:31] <intellectronica> barry: well, you don't really need to review the block delimiters and the uber-verbose documentation
[15:32] <mars> intellectronica, +1
[15:32] <barry> intellectronica: true
[15:32] <barry> intellectronica: i'm certainly up for an experiment here.  if it's too painful we can address it again
[15:33] <intellectronica> i think i'm done, unless anyone has anything to add
[15:33] <intellectronica> and no, "javascript sucks" isn't a valid item. we already know that :-/
[15:33] <barry> intellectronica: thanks. can you send a message to launchpad@ about the length limit?
[15:33] <mars> :P
[15:33] <intellectronica> barry: will do
[15:34] <barry> [ACTION] intellectronica to email launchpad@ about js branch length limit increase
[15:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  intellectronica to email launchpad@ about js branch length limit increase
[15:34] <sinzui> How are we increasing our JS reviewers?
[15:34] <intellectronica> sinzui: i think by now pretty much everyone on the team does js reviews
[15:34] <mars> sinzui, formally?
[15:34] <bigjools> which team?
[15:35] <intellectronica> bigjools: reviewers team (which is almost the same as the developers team)
[15:35] <bigjools> intellectronica: I don't review JS then
[15:35] <mars> sinzui, because js reviews are open to all, we leave it up to the reviewer's discretion
[15:35] <sinzui> mars: I know a lot about javascript, but I do not consider myself a review because I do not know much about YUI, YUI unit tests, and windmill
[15:35] <barry> right.  we're asking all reviewers to do js reviews, but ask the swat team for help when needed
[15:35] <intellectronica> bigjools: well, time to start, then :)
[15:35] <bigjools> intellectronica: I need to write some js myself first :)
[15:35] <salgado> same with me
[15:36] <bac`> me2
[15:36] <intellectronica> bigjools: yes, i guess that's a prerequisite
[15:36] <barry> one problem with this though is that there's little consistency in our js style
[15:36] <mars> sinzui, right.  Depends on the review.  If it is a one-line logic bug, then you don't need a JS mentor call
[15:36] <barry> for example, every branch i've written has had different recommendations during js review
[15:36] <intellectronica> barry: anything in particular you've noticed?
[15:37] <mars> sinzui, but if you desire a second opinion, then give someone on the AJAX team a shout
[15:37] <barry> intellectronica: little things mostly, like where to stash objects, anim-reversing
[15:37] <barry> intellectronica: i think of it more as refinement rather than conflicts
[15:37] <flacoste> yeah
[15:37] <flacoste> that pattern are not clear yet
[15:38] <barry> mars: can you remind us who is on the "ajax team"?
[15:38] <mars> anim-reversing is about learning, and weak docs (my fault)
[15:38] <flacoste> so i think it's normal to get divergent opinion on these aspects
[15:38] <barry> mars: no, i think flacoste has it right.  we're learning as we go, so consistency suffers for now.  we're just building up tech debt we know we'll have to pay off later
[15:38]  * barry sees no other way around that
[15:38] <flacoste> barry: EdwinGrubbs, mars, intellectronica, jtv, flacoste, rockstar
[15:39] <flacoste> barry: and noodles
[15:39]  * mars can't type today
[15:39] <flacoste> and danilos - by virtue of having attended the Berlin sprint
[15:39] <barry> flacoste: thanks.  we should capture that on a wiki page, if it isn't already
[15:39] <danilos> barry: I think it is
[15:39] <mars> barry, it is
[15:39] <barry> cool
[15:39] <barry> thanks
[15:39] <intellectronica> barry: deryck too knows a lot about js and yui and can help, b.t.w
[15:40] <mars> barry, just check the 'skills' column on the current reviewers page
[15:40] <danilos> barry: https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerSchedule
[15:40] <mars> s/skills/specialities/
[15:40] <barry> as i said, everytime i've asked someone for some js help, y'all have been very nice and very helpful.  thanks!
[15:41] <barry> we have 5 minutes left.  is there anything else to talk about today?
[15:41] <flacoste> yes
[15:41] <flacoste> i have
[15:41] <flacoste> i'd like to get an update on the JS testing experiment
[15:41] <flacoste> anyone tried it out in the last week?
[15:42] <barry> nope
[15:42] <mars> no, no JS landings :(
[15:42] <flacoste> really?
[15:42] <flacoste> ok
[15:43] <intellectronica> a better question is: anyone been through review with a js branch which hasn't gone through testing?
[15:43] <flacoste> yes, that's the proper way to phrase the question?
[15:43] <flacoste> !
[15:43] <barry> no, but i have a js branch going into review hopefully today
[15:43] <flacoste> aha!
[15:43] <barry> i guess i can be a guinea pig :)
[15:44] <flacoste> what about the timeline branches that Edwin landed last week?
[15:45] <mars> flacoste, the easiest way to push back on this may be to have reviewer's ask "Has it been tested on all browsers?"
[15:46] <barry> guess not.  we're outta time, so shall we call it a day?
[15:46] <flacoste> sure
[15:46] <barry> flacoste: let's ask again next week!
[15:46] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:46] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:46.
[15:46] <barry> thanks everyone
[15:46] <intellectronica> thanks barry
[15:46] <adeuring> thanks barry
[15:46] <gmb> Ta barry.
[23:29] <jml> lalalala
[23:29] <mwhudson> hi
[23:30] <thumper> hi ho
[23:30] <barry> #startmeeting
[23:30] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:30. The chair is barry.
[23:30] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[23:30] <barry> jml, mwhudson, thumper hi
[23:30] <jml> hi
[23:31] <thumper> hi
[23:31] <mwhudson> hello
[23:31] <barry> so, do you guys have anything or would you like me to start by reviewing the summary from ameu?
[23:31] <thumper> summary is good
[23:31] <mwhudson> summarizing is good
[23:32] <barry> [TOPIC] summary from ameu
[23:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  summary from ameu
[23:32] <barry> henninge brought up a question about the order of parameters in unittest assert*() methods
[23:32] <barry> we agreed that we "prefer" but won't "enforce" the order: (expected, observed)
[23:32] <jml> +1
[23:32] <thumper> +1
[23:33] <barry> cool
[23:33] <jml> that's what bzrlib does, and I think it's drifted into a lot of lp.code(hosting)?
[23:33] <mwhudson> +1
[23:33] <barry> yeah, consensus seemed to be behind this.  where there was some disagreement was on forcing people to do that order, so we compromised :)
[23:34] <thumper> I'd probably enforce it
[23:34] <barry> next, intellectronica outlined some of the things that the ajax swat team's been discussing about js branches
[23:34] <barry> thumper: i would too, but there was no consensus, so "strongly prefer" seemed good enough
[23:35] <thumper> barry: strongly prefer but individual reviewers may enforce L)
[23:35] <barry> :)
[23:35] <barry> more on this, or move on?
[23:35] <thumper> move on
[23:35] <jml> wait
[23:35] <jml> are there any actual _points_ from the js branches?
[23:36] <jml> or was it just a discussion?
[23:36] <barry> jml: yes.  if we're moving on, i'll cut&paste intellectronica's points :)
[23:36] <mwhudson> go go
[23:36] <barry> code that is OO and modularized is much easier to work with than code that is very imperative and/or relies on closure too heavily
[23:37] <barry> unit tests (aka YUI tests) are a great way to test our code. in many cases much better than integration tests
[23:37] <barry> working on UI features it is often easier to first concentrate on completing a working UI than on code quality. that's fine, but it means that we should refactor the code immediately after it passes UI review. that can happen either before code review, or if not, the reviewer should encourage doing that (either as part of this branch or in a followup branch).
[23:37] <barry> finally, since javascript code is so much more verbose, we propose a much higher limit, in order to encourage developers to not skip these important steps. 1600 lines
[23:37] <barry> look in .../javascript/*/tests for unittest examples; only soyuz is in our tree atm. or look in lazr-js.
[23:37] <barry> EOT
[23:38] <jml> I would add "largely functional" to "OO and modularized"
[23:38] <thumper> question
[23:38] <jml> but that's just me.
[23:38] <thumper> where is lp.code javascript supposed to go?
[23:38] <barry> thumper: i don't know.  this morning was the first i heard of that stuff
[23:39] <barry> the existing stuff is in l/c/l/javascript/*
[23:39] <barry> so... old tree
[23:39] <thumper> hmm..
[23:39] <thumper> who is going to move this?
[23:39] <barry> but i know very little about it (first looked at it about 10 minutes ago)
[23:39] <barry> thumper: another good question.  i don't even know how to /run/ it
[23:40] <mwhudson> it seems we have a meeting of the js-resistant!
[23:40] <thumper> true
[23:41] <barry> maybe when i send the minutes of the meetings, we can start a discussion of these on the ml
[23:41] <barry> i really can't give you much more than what i just pasted ;)
[23:41] <jml> :)
[23:41] <barry> thumper has a topic when we're ready to move on
[23:41] <thumper> It'd be nice if we could have the javascript for the apps in the right part of the tree
[23:41] <jml> I'm ready to move on :)
[23:42] <mwhudson> move on
[23:42] <thumper> my topic
[23:42] <barry> thumper: it's all yours
[23:42] <thumper> this week the code team removed all lp.code imports from canonical.launchpad.database.__init__.py and canonical.launchpad.interfaces.__init__.py
[23:42] <thumper> the team leads agreed to get this done for their projects
[23:43] <thumper> we should make sure there are no imports from these modules in reviews
[23:43] <thumper> to make their job easier
[23:43] <thumper> I personally changed many IPerson and IProduct imports to lp.registry
[23:44] <barry> thumper: awesome.  new is better :)
[23:44] <jml> me too, actually.
[23:44] <thumper> that's it
[23:44] <mwhudson> +1
[23:44] <jml> +1
[23:44] <barry> +1
[23:44] <barry> thanks thumper
[23:44] <thumper> sold!
[23:44] <barry> anything else guys?
[23:44] <jml> barry, one more thing
[23:45] <barry> jml: you're up
[23:45] <jml> barry, I'd be kind of interested in knowing how many reviews people do per day.
[23:45] <thumper> jml: we have real metrics
[23:45] <jml> barry, because I'm thinking that the small size of asiapac lends itself (perversely) to everyone doing more reviews.
[23:45] <thumper> jml: in LP
[23:46] <jml> thumper, extract them for me :)
[23:46] <barry> yes, that would be cool to know!  thumper can you get a losa to run a report?
[23:46] <thumper> jml: some LP lib magic should be able to do this
[23:46] <thumper> barry: I don't need no stinking losas :)
[23:46] <jml> barry, very low priority, I guess. I've just been noticing how often I get interrupted, and wonder if Almighty Process can make that happen less :)
[23:46] <barry> or that :)
[23:46]  * mthaddon stares at thumper
[23:47] <thumper> mthaddon: ... to run a script for me :)
[23:47] <jml> that's it.
[23:47]  * thumper can do it himself :)
[23:47] <barry> jml: how does ocr work for you guys?  do you do it, or do you work on demand?
[23:47]  * mthaddon is actually happy (apart from the stinking part)
[23:47] <jml> barry, we do work on demand
[23:47] <jml> AND
[23:47] <jml> when we are ocrs, we do a lot of reviews
[23:47] <thumper> barry: I don't do OCR, but do quite a few on demand
[23:48] <jml> often more from the americas on OCR days.
[23:48] <barry> jml: when you ocr do you just pop branches off activereviews or wait for devs to come to you.  and if the latter, do you get many non-asiapac branches?
[23:48] <mwhudson> i don't really do ocr, to be honest
[23:48] <jml> barry, I pop off to a limit of 3. :)
[23:48] <jml> barry, or if they are small.
[23:48] <barry> mwhudson, thumper gotcha
[23:49] <mwhudson> generally whenever anyone says "can you do a review" i do it
[23:49] <jml> barry, I do get people who come to me, but it varies from week to week.
[23:49] <mwhudson> (ocr day or not)
[23:49] <barry> jml: makes sense.  actually, interestingly enough, your BOD overlaps with our EOD, so you could do some on demand america reviews occasionally
[23:49] <jml> barry, I sometimes do.
[23:49] <barry> that's great, actually
[23:50] <jml> (also, it's different in summer)
[23:50] <barry> well, thumper if you run that script, do let us know.  it would be interesting
[23:50] <barry> jml: who's summer? <wink>
[23:50] <thumper> kk
[23:50] <barry> anything else guys?
[23:51] <jml> that's it from me.
[23:51]  * thumper is done
[23:51] <mwhudson> all from me
[23:51] <mwhudson> thanks barry
[23:51] <barry> thanks guys!
[23:51] <barry> #endmeeting
[23:51] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:51.
[23:51]  * barry -> dinner
[23:51] <thumper> thanks barry


[16:36] <Raices> Hi. I have UbuntuStudio 19.10 and I always run QjackCTL when I want to use ardour to record something, or when I play with Guitarix and other plugins, but the issue is that I cannot listen anything from internet, is there any way to be able to play music on internet while Jack is running?.
[17:00] <OvenWerks> Raices: I would suggest using ubuntustudio-controls for starting jack first off. However, even using qjackctl the pulse-jack bridge should start by default.
[17:00] <OvenWerks> If it doesn't, that would indicate you have turned off the dbus version in qjackctl
[17:02] <OvenWerks> in other words, if you run jackdbus, you should get sound from the browser though you may have to use pavucontrol to make sure jack sink is the default
[17:03] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-controls makes sure jack is the default with no other action needed and should also give more stable operation as it removes all audio devices from pulse's use
[17:03] <Raices> OvenWerks Thanks!. I have see something about ubuntustudio-controls
[17:03] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls | Raices
[17:03] <Raices> But I do notknow how to configure it
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> Raices: It practically configures itself.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> I would have thought -controls is easier to use than qjackctl
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> ^ That's why we don't support using qjackctl in this channel. It's too complicated and requres very in-depth knowledge.
[17:05] <Raices> Eickmeyer Yes, It looks better!
[17:06] <Raices> I just have this https://ibb.co/jhffkLh
[17:07] <Raices> But when I click on "Start or Restart Jack" it does not sound anything from internet
[17:08] <Eickmeyer> Raices: You might have to restart your browser for it to pick up the jack source/sink.
[17:08] <OvenWerks> you probably want to enable the checkbox bridge ALSA to jack MIDI
[17:08] <OvenWerks> Raices: which chanels do you use on the xr18 for your outputs? the default is 1 and 2
[17:09] <Raices> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks Thanks! I really apreciatte your help
[17:09] <Eickmeyer> Raices: A good tip is to run Ubuntu Studio Controls before anything else to make sure your audio is configured the way you want it.
[17:09] <Raices> OvenWerks: Yes, I use the default 1 & 2. OvenWerks I will click on it
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> Raices: You can also use Carla's patchbay function to route your audio to individual channels on the XR18.
[17:11] <Raices> Eickmeyer: The first thing when I turn on my PC is open -controls and start jack, right?
[17:11] <OvenWerks> Raices: once you have it set up it should already be running when you login
[17:11] <Eickmeyer> Raices: The way we have it, when you log-in, your audio will be automatically configured with however you left it when you shut down or restared.
[17:11] <Raices> Eickmeyer: I have seen something about Carla, I have to learn about it, thanks for the tips
[17:12] <OvenWerks> in other words if jack is running when you shutdown it should be running when you login.
[17:12] <Raices> OvenWerks: that means, I just have to do it one time?
[17:12] <OvenWerks> yup
[17:13] <OvenWerks> Raices: I also think there is a newer version of -controls in our backports ppa
[17:13] <Raices> Thanks to both of you! I really like being part of the Linux users to make music!
[17:14] <Raices> Ok, I will start the ubuntu-controls and restar my pc and I'll be back!
[17:30] <Raices> Hi. I just want to say thanks!
[17:30] <OvenWerks> your welcome
[17:31] <Raices> I already have Ardour and youtube at the same time and everything sound
[17:31] <Raices> Have a great day week and tahnks again!
[17:32] <OvenWerks> enjoy


[10:12] <highvoltage> mhall119: oh cool, thanks!
[10:12]  * highvoltage should keep note of these for when we spend some time on the website again some time