[13:11] <TonyBurn> is it normally this quiet in here?
[15:38] <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
[16:55] <brobostigon> afternoonings spectre
[16:57] <spectre> hi
[19:35] <TonyBurn> so yea
[19:35] <TonyBurn> wales ubuntu is busy
[19:47] <nullox> brobostigon: do you remember the IBM keyboards ?
[19:54] <brobostigon> nullox: yes,
[19:57] <TonyBurn> which IBM keyboards?
[19:57] <TonyBurn> lo btw
[19:58] <brobostigon> the one with the weird bend in the middle.
[19:58] <nullox> the keyboards known to be very clicky and "noisey", something I miss
[19:58] <nullox> strong build, good quality keyboards
[19:59] <brobostigon> with proper switches.
[20:01] <TonyBurn> http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8715/brandnewibmkeyboard.jpg
[20:01] <TonyBurn> those?
[20:01] <brobostigon> TonyBurn: thats a newer one.
[20:02] <nullox> the keys were chunky
[20:02] <nullox> and great for typing
[20:02] <brobostigon> yes.
[20:02] <TonyBurn> i have that one under my desk in work still, loved it for typing on, only reason i'm not using it now is because its ps2 so cant plug into my laptop without converter which i dont have
[20:02] <nullox> I want one for programming
[23:22] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.


[00:50] <gabriel15959> hello
[01:03] <gabriel15959> hi
[01:03] <gabriel15959> ol[a
[01:04] <gabriel15959> ola
[09:07] <mzanetti> popey, hey, I think I have a fix here, but can't find the bug any more. you happen to have a link handy?
[09:14] <popey> mzanetti: yeah, i filed one I think
[09:14] <popey> lemme find it
[09:16] <popey> mzanetti: bug 1445928
[09:16] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtmir/+bug/1445928 being the one that i filed, marked as a dupe of another one (I filed) :)
[09:17] <mzanetti> popey, thanks
[09:17] <popey> np
[09:49] <mivoligo> hi, what AppArmor policy do I need to use "Alarm" in my app?
[09:53] <mivoligo> nevermind, it turns out to be "calendar"
[10:18] <mivoligo> nik90: hi
[10:18] <nik90> mivoligo: hi
[10:19] <mivoligo> nik90: as you are the time expert, I'd like to ask you about a timer app
[10:19] <nik90> mivoligo: sure, shoot
[10:20] <mivoligo> nik90: I'm trying to do one using Alarm but it's not very precise when the time is short
[10:21] <mivoligo> nik90: is there any other way to sound the timer finish than Alarm?
[10:22] <nik90> mivoligo: unfortunately no ... there has been a plan to rewrite the alarm backend using a simple dbus API and provide a timer and alarm API using that. But at this point, it is just a plan.
[10:22] <nik90> mivoligo: sounding the timer was always the hardest part even when the clock app had its own timer
[10:22] <mivoligo> :(
[10:23] <mivoligo> nik90: what about using notifications? Is it doable?
[10:24] <nik90> mivoligo: the current alarms backend is just too heavy due to EDS and as such is also the reason why I have been avoiding using it for timers..that said when does it become a problem?
[10:24] <mivoligo> nik90: when I set time for example 30s, it sounds after 5s
[10:24] <nik90> mivoligo: You can't..afaik apps cant send notifications when suspended unless you use push notifications which seems like a overkill for this situation
[10:25] <mivoligo> hmm
[10:25] <nik90> mivoligo: pretty much the main reason we don't have timer apps yet..they just aren't feasible without platform support
[10:26] <mivoligo> nik90: there are some but not working properly :D
[10:27] <nik90> mivoligo: well a timer without being to able to notify the user doesn't help
[10:27] <nik90> mivoligo: although
[10:27] <nik90> I think you could set a min. limit to the timer to be greater than a minute and use that for now I guess
[10:27] <nik90> s/min./minimum
[10:28] <mivoligo> nik90: that's what I'm going to do probably
[10:28] <nik90> mivoligo: hopefully we can get to the new API this cycle
[10:28] <mivoligo> nik90: is that new API expected any time soon?
[10:29] <nik90> mivoligo: looking at https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/04/15/retrospective-and-roadmap-ui-toolkit/, it seems it will be part of 2.0 which is a bit too late imo.
[10:30] <nik90> mivoligo: but it seems like 15.10 is indeed focussing on the convergence of sdk components which is quite important as well.
[10:30] <nik90> so hard to get it done earlier
[10:30] <bzoltan> nik90:  I fully agree with you, it is too late, but our hand is so full with the stuff planned for 15.10
[10:31] <nik90> bzoltan: I know and I understand, which is why I did not come complaining to you about it :-)
[10:31] <mivoligo> nik90: sure, I can imagine you guys are busy
[10:32] <bzoltan> nik90:  it is always good to complain :) it helps us to understand what app developers want
[10:33] <mivoligo> nik90: is there any way to get rid of "snooze" button from the alarm notification dialog?
[10:33] <bzoltan> mivoligo: nik90:  right now the biggest issue in our hand is to enable multiversion in the Toolkit. So if your app pulls 1.0 UITK then it looks, behaves and feels like 1.0 even if the package contains the 1.3 That means we have to refactor the source tree and enable theme and artwork versioning plus few other things.
[10:34] <nik90> mivoligo: there has been a request for that, it seems that the unity8 notifications require atleast 2 buttons which is why we added the snooze button in the first place :P.. yeah I know ..things are sometimes weird
[10:34] <nik90> bzoltan: ah ...looks like aquarius got to you :D
[10:34] <nik90> mivoligo: but again in the new API (seems like the new thing I keep saying these days) will fix that
[10:34] <mivoligo> nik90: can I somehow overwrite it?
[10:34] <bzoltan> nik90:  yes, he is good at finding critical issues...
[10:35] <t1mp> nik90: I would to be able to set a snooze time >10m, and to specify the snooze time per alarm. Should I report a bug for that?
[10:35] <nik90> mivoligo: nope..the notification is actually triggered by the indicator-datetime and not the clock app
[10:35] <nik90> t1mp: the snooze times that were given to use were by design. If you want it longer, please report a bug and we can add it quite easily.
[10:36] <nik90> t1mp: as for the snooze time per alarm, you need to wait for the new Alarms API in 16.04
[10:36] <t1mp> ok I'll report two separate bugs
[10:36] <t1mp> nik90: what's the lp project for the clock?
[10:36] <mivoligo> nik90: heh, then I need to add "Beta" to app name :D
[10:37] <nik90> t1mp: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app
[10:37] <nik90> mivoligo: :)
[10:38] <mivoligo> nik90: another idea, can I just sound the alarm without displaying notification?
[10:39] <nik90> mivoligo: then how would you dismiss it?
[10:39] <mivoligo> nik90: in the app
[10:40] <t1mp> nik90: ok, thanks. I reported 2 bugs
[10:40] <t1mp> nik90: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1450767
[10:40] <t1mp> nik90: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1450768
[10:40] <mivoligo> nik90: after unlocking the phone
[10:41] <nik90> mivoligo: either way the answer is no. At the moment, the clock app is like a puppet..it allows you to create/edit alarms and that's about it. Everything else like snoozing the alarm, showing the notification and adding to the indicator is *all* done by the indicator-datetime service. The reason for that is simple..clock app is usually not in the foreground when an alarm rings.
[10:41] <nik90> t1mp: thnx.
[10:41] <t1mp> nik90: on android I can sound the alarm without displaying the notification ;)
[10:42] <t1mp> nik90: ^that's a bug :) when I take my phone out of the docking station the notification closes :s
[10:42] <mivoligo> nik90: I'm talking about my Timer app :)
[10:42] <t1mp> nik90: and then I spend 10 minutes restarting and killing apps trying to stop the annoying alarm sound...
[10:42] <nik90> mivoligo: I know..but my point is that your timer app will come under the same restrictions as the clock app since you are using the alarms API
[10:43] <t1mp> that may be a custom sony bug though, and not a generic android thing
[10:43] <nik90> t1mp: well you get to snooze the alarm on android through the lock screen?
[10:43] <mivoligo> nik90: mzanetti: how is Reminders doing it? I got sound alarm but no notification? Or is it a bug?
[10:44] <nik90> mivoligo: no notification?
[10:44]  * nik90 checks now
[10:44] <mivoligo> nik90: yep
[10:44] <t1mp> nik90: I don't have an android phone now to check. But I didn't think of locking the phone in order to snooze the alarm..
[10:45] <nik90> mivoligo: I got the notification but without any buttons..very similar to a calendar event going off.
[10:45] <nik90> mivoligo: you can do that by using the QOrganizer QML API similar to the way the calendar app does it.
[10:46] <nik90> mivoligo: so instead of a one-time alarm, you will be creating a one-time event.
[10:46] <mivoligo> nik90: now we're talking :D
[10:47] <nik90> mivoligo: actually I think that's a way better idea..than using the alarms API.
[10:47] <nik90> mivoligo: no snooze button or ok button..but a notifications like any other timer app in other platforms show
[10:48] <mivoligo> nik90: I wonder how precise it is
[10:48] <nik90> mivoligo: I set the reminder event for the next 15-20 seconds and it worked
[10:49] <mivoligo> nik90: nice :)
[10:49] <nik90> mivoligo: one drawback is that it will still show up in the indicator-datetime as a calendar event..but that's not too bad for now
[10:50] <mivoligo> nik90: true
[10:51] <mivoligo> working timer app is coming MWAHAHAHAHA!
[10:51] <nik90> :D
[10:52] <mivoligo> nik90: and I had plans never touch anything to do with time manipulation before :P
[10:53] <nik90> mivoligo: well your zeegaree app would be nice for a start..still runs nicely on my desktop
[10:53] <mivoligo> nik90: do you still use it?
[10:54] <nik90> https://imgur.com/nJhMFb4
[10:54] <mivoligo> :)
[10:54] <mivoligo> nik90: show the calendar panel ;)
[10:56] <nik90> yeah you don't want to see that
[10:56] <mivoligo> :D
[11:15] <ant400468> hi all
[11:17] <ant400468> someone explains the difference between updates by apt-get update/upgrade and those from the system? in short, as I update the system ubuntu-phone?
[11:23] <ant400468> thers is a possibility for whatsapp to appear on ubuntu phone?
[11:29] <mivoligo> nik90: do you know any example of using QtOrganizer in QML?
[11:31] <nik90> mivoligo: I think it is best to look at either the reminders app or the calendar app for examples on how to use Qtorganizer API. Have you looked at the API docs?
[11:31] <nik90> https://www.google.nl/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Qtorganizer+QML+API&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=w2NDVa_YB66o8wfi4oGwBA
[11:31] <nik90> bah I meant https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/qtpim.qml-organizer/
[11:32] <nik90> personally I haven't had the opportunity to use it
[11:32] <mivoligo> nik90: thanks
[11:34] <mivoligo> nik90: examples and tutorials does not work on that page :(
[11:38] <popey> ant400468: if facebook/whatsapp port it, sure
[11:47] <nik90> mivoligo: hmm .. I am trying to see if there are official qt docs
[11:48] <mivoligo> nik90: I found this: http://qt.developpez.com/doc/5.0-snapshot/qmlorganizerlistview/
[11:48] <mivoligo> nik90: I guess I need to ask mzanetti for help :D
[11:48] <nik90> mivoligo: surprising that I cannot find official qt 5.4 docs for this component
[11:54] <ant400468> @popey thanks
[12:17] <mzanetti> mivoligo, nik90, what up?
[12:18] <mivoligo> mzanetti: hi, I'm trying to do a timer app
[12:18] <mzanetti> mivoligo, countdown timer?
[12:18] <mivoligo> mzanetti: yes
[12:18] <mzanetti> mivoligo, done already :P
[12:18] <mivoligo> :D
[12:18] <mzanetti> just waiting for charles to fix up some things
[12:19] <mzanetti> here's the branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/+junk/stopwatch-countdown
[12:19] <mivoligo> mzanetti: oh man, and I'm torturing my mind :P
[12:19] <popey> sheeh, you should have learned by now, let mzanetti torture his mind first!
[12:19] <mivoligo> :D
[12:20] <mzanetti> it'll ring an alarm when it's due, however, there's a bug in the alarms framework where the alarm won't ring at the proper time
[12:20] <mzanetti> as soon as that's fixed I'll publish an update to the stopwatch app
[12:20] <mzanetti> sorry guys :P
[12:20] <mivoligo> mzanetti: heh, that's the problem
[12:21]  * mzanetti afk for 10 mins
[12:21] <mivoligo> mzanetti: nik90 suggested we can use QtOrganizer insted of Alarm
[12:37] <mzanetti> mivoligo, that's what I do
[12:38] <mzanetti> mivoligo, that branch I posted works fine already, except that the alarm rings immediately if the countdown time is within the current minute
[12:39] <mzanetti> lemme see if I have a click for you to try
[12:40] <mzanetti> http://notyetthere.org/data/stopwatch.mzanetti_0.4_armhf.click
[12:40] <mzanetti> probably only working on vivid
[12:44] <mivoligo> mzanetti: same here when I used Alarm, but have no idea how to use QtOrganizer in QML
[12:44] <mzanetti> I don't think there's a QML api for it... could be I'm just not aware of it though
[12:45] <mivoligo> mzanetti: I found this:  http://doc.qt.digia.com/qtmobility-1.1.3/qml-organizer.html
[12:45] <nik90> pretty sure calendar app uses the qml api afaik
[12:46] <mzanetti> could be... dunno... seemed easy enough with Qt to me
[12:58] <nik90> Woohoo I finally see a fix to the lockscreen being unresponsive when starting app from QtC https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1435364
[13:14] <JackH> just installed
[13:15] <JackH> going to make a kick ass scope!
[13:15] <JackH> or app
[13:15] <JackH> you all wait and see now
[13:15] <popey> \o/
[14:03] <faenil> popey: do you know if the calendar is supposed to autorefresh?
[14:03] <popey> faenil: no, there's a sync option in the menu
[14:04] <faenil> oh...I couldn't find that...where is it?
[14:04] <faenil> ^
[14:04] <faenil> popey: ^
[14:04] <popey> top right
[14:04] <faenil> there's only New Event and Calendars
[14:05] <popey> uh
[14:05] <popey> in calendars, are your calendars enabled?
[14:05] <faenil> yes I see other events
[14:05] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-05-01-150552.png
[14:05] <popey> you dont see that?
[14:06] <faenil> nope XD
[14:06] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-05-01-150603.png
[14:06] <faenil> all enabled
[14:06] <popey> how odd
[14:07] <faenil> I'm on r202
[14:07] <popey> that number means nothing to me :)
[14:07] <faenil> it's the latest fw revision :)
[14:08] <faenil> (the app is latest version as well)
[14:08] <popey> sounds like a bug then
[14:08] <faenil> yay
[14:08] <popey> I'm on 201
[14:08] <popey> just upgraded to 202
[14:08] <popey> will check
[14:09] <popey> faenil: i still have a sync menu
[14:10] <faenil> mm
[14:10] <popey> wonder if your google UOA account has expired
[14:11] <faenil> Accounts screen doesn't show anything suspicious, at least..
[14:12] <faenil> it appeared now!
[14:12] <popey> hah
[14:12] <popey> MAGIC!
[14:12] <faenil> without closing and relaunching the app! I just closed other apps!
[14:12] <faenil> mmmmmmm
[14:12] <faenil> :D
[14:13] <faenil> I wonder if there's any check..ù
[14:14] <faenil> (process:12195): dconf-CRITICAL **: unable to create file '/run/user/32011/dconf/user': Permission denied.  dconf will not work properly.
[16:05] <nik90> popey: you need to post a picture with *all* your mobile devices which might include UT, firefox os, tizen, jolla, ios and android..and what not...and perhaps even create an alarm on every one of them to ring at the same time :P
[16:06] <faenil> DanChapman: hey, I built dekko on desktop and checked why it wasn't logging it with my gmail account. I just needed an "app password", using that instead of my password fixed it ;)
[16:09] <DanChapman> faenil, \o/ awesome! yeah that's a real pain atm.... Oh you needed to get an app password, i thought google had dropped that. And just had a switch for allowing less secure apps.
[16:09] <DanChapman> that's all it is for me now anyway
[16:09] <DanChapman> i just have a turn on/off buttons here https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps no mention of passwords anymore
[16:10] <faenil> DanChapman: that kind of switch basically means turning off 2FA, and you don't want to do that
[16:10] <faenil> app passwords make more sense, imho
[16:10] <faenil> DanChapman: that option is only available if you don't use 2FA
[16:11]  * DanChapman didn't know that
[16:11] <faenil> DanChapman: I've just read it on that webpage :P
[16:12] <DanChapman> faenil: :-D anyway that won't be an issue with the move to UOA.
[16:12] <faenil> DanChapman: right..
[16:14] <faenil> woah, populating the email model really puts the UI down on its knees
[16:18] <DanChapman> faenil: yeah the first fetch is a real drain.
[16:18] <faenil> also scrolling lags quite a bit :/
[16:18] <faenil> have you already had a look at that? is it optimized already?
[16:19] <faenil> (not sure how much can be done about that, just asking out of curiosity)
[16:20] <DanChapman> faenil: i've only just got my hands on krillin so I havn't had much time to look at it. It was previously nearly unscrollable so I extended the cacheBuffer (which is bad) to at least get it to scroll semi ok on krillin. On mako scrolling is much better. Feel free to look into that one :-D
[16:21] <faenil> DanChapman: I see, okay...first thing I'd try is shrink the delegates as much as possible
[16:21] <faenil> but it needs some benchmarks :)
[16:21] <popey> nik90: ok! :D
[16:24] <DanChapman> faenil: indeed :-D It would be good to get some compared to the new ListItem in vivid aswell
[16:24] <faenil> :)
[21:17] <alesage> balloons, ping?  working on reminders testing and wondering what popey might mean by "remote" "local" and "website" (assuming he's not around)
[21:17] <alesage> balloons, thought you might know
[21:37] <popey> alesage: website means "on evernote.com"
[21:37] <alesage> popey, that checks out :)
[21:37] <popey> :)
[21:37] <alesage> popey and "local" and "remote" means having set up the connection or not
[21:37] <alesage> popey, riight?
[21:38] <popey> is this in the spreadsheet of tests?
[21:38] <alesage> popey, yessir
[21:39] <popey> remote means "a user defined elsewhere" - as in, an evernote account has been setup on the device
[21:39] <popey> local meaning "no evernote account configured"
[21:39] <popey> or rather, local, as in, not synced to evernote.com
[21:39] <popey> make sense?
[21:40] <alesage> popey, seeing that setting in accounts now, yes
[21:40] <popey> so when you very first launch reminders you get asked a yes/no question about syncing online
[21:40] <popey> if you choose "no" then you create "local" only notes
[21:40] <alesage> popey righto, got it
[21:40] <popey> coolio
[21:40] <popey> thanks for testing it
[21:40] <alesage> popey thanks for making this sheet of tests
[21:43] <popey> mzanetti: made them :)
[21:43] <popey> so thanks mzanetti :)
[21:43] <popey> alesage: I never really know what you guys want exactly in terms of manual tests.
[21:43] <popey> michael made those, I've been putting stuff in etherpads with screenshots and stuff.
[21:44] <popey> feedback welcome on what's best for you guys to effectively test stuff
[21:44] <alesage> popey, well this is a really good start actually :) , anything that helps to get your intention across
[21:44] <alesage> popey, ok will give some feedback
[21:44] <popey> excellent, thanks
[22:21] <rpadovani> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/git-code-hosting-beta \o/
[23:07] <mcphail> Git? Brilliant!
[23:58] <DF__> hi all
[23:58] <DF__> i have a prob here with the makefile
[23:59] <DF__> it doesnt make me make an app that works on uphone