[10:30] <sbodo> Hi all - i try to recompile the latest java-gnome (cvs head as of today) on ubuntu dapper and compiling the JNI code fails because gcc wont pick up jni.h by default
[10:30] <sbodo> is the mismatch of the gcj and gcc can produce this behaviour?


[00:51] <TheMuso> robert_ancell is on a mission! :)
[00:53] <TheMuso> That being to remove launchpad-integration.
[00:58] <bryceh> oh?
[01:06] <TheMuso> Yep, in the GNOME plans session it was decided to drop it, and plans are being made to possibly create an indicator that will help users get involved with testing/filing bugs.
[01:08] <bryceh> ah, interesting
[01:10] <robert_ancell> TheMuso it's pretty much gone now
[01:10] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, actually the next step is to remove it from the archive - how do we do that?
[01:11] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Simply file a bug against launchpad-integration and ask for removal, subscribing ubuntu-archive, and explaning why you want it removed.
[01:13] <bryceh> TheMuso, hey, had a question regarding package removals
[01:13] <TheMuso> bryceh: Sure, not sure if I will be able to answer it though.
[01:13] <bryceh> TheMuso, if the package to be removed is in debian, is it actually meaningful to do a removal request?
[01:14] <bryceh> i.e. say you have packages a and b both from debian, but we should only carry b in ubuntu, would it make sense to do a ubuntu removal request for a, if debian intends to continue carrying both?
[01:14] <TheMuso> bryceh: Not in Ubuntu. Afaik our archive admins regularly check package removals in debian, and will remove the pacakge in Ubuntu as well.
[01:14] <TheMuso> SO remove it in Debian, it will be removed in Ubuntu, particularly if its a package that is auto synced from Debian.
[01:15] <TheMuso> If we have Ubuntu changes, it may need further checks to see if we want to remove it or not, but other than that.
[01:15] <bryceh> TheMuso, but for a package that debian will not be dropping?  (Or at least, is still unconvinced)
[01:15] <TheMuso> bryceh: I think we just remove it ourselves, and blacklist it from being synced.
[01:15] <RAOF> It *does* make sense to request a removal for a package that's expected to remain in Debian; it gets removed, and added to the sync blacklist.
[01:15] <bryceh> ok thanks
[01:16] <TheMuso> bryceh: For example, I requested the removal of some legacy at-spi stuff the other day. Debian still has it, and it may stick around there for a while, but for us, it will only get in the way and cause upgrade headaches in certain circumstances, and since they are no longer maintained upstream, its easier to have them out of our, or should I say my, hair.
[03:13] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, ubuntustudio-meta needs updating to drop launchpad-integration - can I do that or should I open a bug?
[03:14] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: If you have write access to the seeds, go ahead. If not, let me know and I'll modify the seeds, so you can go ahead and update the meta.
[03:15] <TheMuso> i.e I can modify the seeds, and you can still do the meta if you want. I can do both if you prefer.
[03:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, if it's ok can you do it.  I'd prefer to have someone from the project do it
[03:17] <TheMuso> Yep I will take care of it.
[03:20] <TheMuso> Ok seeds updated, just doing the meta now, and will upload.
[03:42] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Done.
[03:57] <pitti> Good morning
[03:59] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[03:59] <TheMuso> Hope you managed to catch up on sleep. :)
[04:01] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[04:01] <pitti> TheMuso: I was indeed; unlike on the way there, I had about zero problems to adapt back here
[04:01] <pitti> TheMuso: how about yourself?
[04:03] <TheMuso> Crashed about 7:30 last night, and slept till about 6:40 this morning. Feeling ok atm, but will have another early night to really catch up properly.
[04:51] <didrocks> good morning
[05:00] <pitti> hey didrocks
[05:00] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
[05:00] <pitti> didrocks: quite well, thanks! how about yourself?
[05:00] <pitti> didrocks: I seemed to have zero trouble readjusting on the way back
[05:01] <didrocks> pitti: I'm fine as well, waking up a little bit earlier than usual (and same for fighting against sleeping yesterday evening), but mostly on track as well :)
[05:02] <didrocks> pitti: nice that you didn't have the same issue than for adjusting to San Francisco timezone
[05:58] <jasoncwarner_> morning EU folk :)
[06:02] <didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_!
[06:02] <didrocks> it seems your trip back wasn't straightforward?
[06:03] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
[06:03] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: back home at last?
[06:03] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti and didrocks
[06:03] <jasoncwarner_> yeah, got home late mother's day (sunday), but it was a bit of an adventure
[06:03] <jasoncwarner_> but, all's well that ends well type of scenario ;)
[06:03] <didrocks> heh :)
[06:04] <jasoncwarner_> how about you guys? hopefully straightforward?
[06:05] <didrocks> it seems that someone tried to escape the flight during the night by trying to open an exit door. 4 people stopped him and he got locked in the restroom
[06:06] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: wha? :/
[06:06] <jasoncwarner_> Ok, that is actually more excitement than mine!
[06:06]  * Sweetshark got home rather good and hopes that all non-A380-transatlantic-flights will stop by the end of the year, so that he never need to fly one of those old 1960-tech boeings again ...
[06:07] <pitti> Sweetshark: I indeed found it to be rather quiet
[06:08] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: well, I was at the back of the plane and hopefully didn't notice it. Should have been less fun for people near the center of the plane
[06:08] <TheMuso> Yeah, whenever I have to fly on a 747 I always audibly groan.
[06:08] <Sweetshark> pitti: and there is some room at the foodplace to do some gymnastics ...
[06:08] <Sweetshark> TheMuso: 747 is still better than 757 in my recollection.
[06:09] <TheMuso> Sweetshark: Still too loud compared to the 380.
[06:09]  * micahg thinks the 787 would be nice
[06:10]  * jasoncwarner_ thinks there is a bunch of plane nerds in this forum ;)
[06:10] <jasoncwarner_> that being said, I like the a380!
[06:10] <Sweetshark> micahg: hoping for technology from the 22nd century? or have they sold actually one by now?
[06:11]  * micahg thought a few sold already
[06:11] <TheMuso> Yes they have.
[06:11] <TheMuso> The humidifiers is enough of a reason to want to travel on one IMO.
[06:12] <pitti> TheMuso: oh, they have? I did notice that my nose and lips weren't dried out, as on the way to SF
[06:12] <Sweetshark> right, after all DukeNukem3D is released too. But somehow we are not yet all running hurd .... strange.
[06:12] <TheMuso> pitti: No, the 380 doesn't, but the 676 does.
[06:12] <TheMuso> err 787
[06:14] <Sweetshark> didrocks: congrats to survive that flight without a decompression then btw (already followed that "interesting flight" story on g+)
[06:20] <didrocks> Sweetshark: quite a bit freaky, indeed :)
[06:23] <RAOF> From what I understand the 787 isn't meant to be a 747/A380 replacement, though.  Which is disappointing!
[07:47] <rickspencer3> pitti is on a blueprint obsleting rampage
[07:47] <pitti> heh, cleaning up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver :)
[07:53] <mlankhorst> >:D
[08:01] <bryceh> death to antique blueprints
[08:07] <BigWhale> Good Morning.
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:15] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, BigWhale
[08:15] <jasoncwarner_> hey BigWhale and chrisccoulson
[08:15] <pitti> yay, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver is empty now
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, jasoncwarner_ and BigWhale. how is everyone?
[08:16] <didrocks> doing well, thanks, yourself?
[08:16] <didrocks> pitti: feeling free? :)
[08:16] <BigWhale> I'm recovering from jetlag ... slowly :/
[08:16] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: pretty good, thanks for asking. I mean, my house has a roof on it...yours? ;)
[08:16] <pitti> didrocks: :)
[08:17] <BigWhale> and being at work early in the morning doesn't really help :>
[08:17] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, heh, that's good. we still have a leaking roof here ;)
[08:17] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[08:19] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson; I'm quite fine, thanks! how about you?
[08:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, not too bad thanks. still a bit tired though
[08:21] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: I found the secret to that. Apparently you can order caffeine in powder form on the internet! I mean, how cool is that? now, I just need to remember if it is 1g or 10g. Might as well start with 10g...can't hurt, right?
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> lol
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd go for the 10g :)
[08:31] <mlankhorst> pitti: ping?
[08:32] <pitti> mlankhorst: hello
[08:32] <seb128> hey
[08:32] <mlankhorst> pitti: should the items from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-lts-backport-2 pad be coalesced into https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-lts-updates ?
[08:32] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:33]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:33]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[08:33] <pitti> mlankhorst: or desktop-q-xorg-lts-backport-2 could just be made obsolete, if it is a duplicate spec
[08:34] <seb128> robert_ancell really wants to see lpi going away it seems ;-)
[08:34] <mlankhorst> it was a session specifically created to resolve some issues we had with how we would handle some stuff, so coalescing + declaring obsolete is ok?
[08:35] <pitti> mlankhorst: sure, unless it's really about two different topics
[08:35] <mlankhorst> kk :)
[08:37] <mlankhorst> seems just that it needs to be declared obsolete then
[08:40] <seb128> pitti, would you like to do the glib update to the new unstable serie? normally I would do it but I keep my system on stable since I will focus on .1 and I didn't set up a quantal vm yet (and I would prefer that it gets testing by something running unity 3d on real hardware as well)
[08:41] <pitti> seb128: can do this afternoon, yes
[08:41] <seb128> pitti, thanks, no hurry, doesn't need to be today
[08:41]  * seb128 starts on GNOME 3.4.2 for SRU
[08:42] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va?
[08:42] <seb128> didrocks, lut, nickel, toi ?
[08:42] <didrocks> ça va bien :)
[09:22] <BigWhale> Err, how do I remove ubuntu-desktop and all the desktop packages?
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: note that I accepted some "proposed" quantal BPs and also moved one or two stragglers from precise
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, is there a page that list the "proposed" bps?
[09:33] <seb128> or did you just go through the list?
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: link at the bottom of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+specs
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: but I mostly cleaned up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=drafter
[09:37] <pitti> i. e. closing obsolete ones, and adjusting the ones for quantal
[09:37] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, do you think that GNOME 3.4.2 updates with only a few updated translations are worth an upload?
[10:50] <xclaesse> is it possible to make ubuntu stop creating "Ubuntu One" folder in my $HOME ?
[10:50] <xclaesse> I've no idea why it randomly appear sometimes
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: not sure really
[11:04] <seb128> xclaesse, uninstall ubuntuone I guess?
[11:04] <seb128> pitti, I decided that not, I just did vinagre since it's in universe and can't be langpacked through launchpad
[11:04] <seb128> pitti, the other SRUs I'm doing have actual fixes as well
[11:04] <pitti> ok
[11:05] <seb128> pitti, I did a few verification-done tagging and some uploads this morning, I will continue this afternoon with nautilus, glib and gtk stable updates
[11:05] <seb128> but finishing lunch,coffee first ;-)
[12:29] <seb128> pitti, let me know when you have a minute to discuss desktop-q-third-party-driver-installation
[12:39] <pitti> seb128: I have now
[12:39] <seb128> pitti, small questions
[12:39] <seb128> 1- the summary has "we need the "printer drivers from openprinting.org" logic moved into s-c-p"
[12:39] <seb128> should that be on the workitems list somewhere?
[12:39] <seb128> no w.i seems to mention printing
[12:40] <pitti> indeed it should, adding
[12:41] <seb128> thanks
[12:41] <pitti> done
[12:42] <seb128> pitti, second one is rather a question to make sure we don't overlook anything ... is ubiquity interacting with jockey in any way and if it does should we have a wi to check that it keeps working?
[12:42] <pitti> it does indeed, so we'll need a wrapper script for that
[12:42]  * pitti adds WI
[12:44] <seb128> pitti, thanks, spec approved ;-)
[12:46]  * pitti hugs seb128
[12:46]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[12:56] <pitti> seb128: I'm inclined to drop glib's "revert single include" patch now, WDYT?
[12:57] <seb128> pitti, go for it
[12:57] <seb128> I think we fixed a good part of the rdepends previous cycle
[12:57] <seb128> now is a good time also to fix the remaining ones
[13:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-packaging reading for review? if it is please change the "definition" to review
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, hey
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, how are you? had a good flight back?
[13:15]  * pitti waves to mterry
[13:16] <mterry> pitti, hi!
[13:16] <seb128> pitti, will you sru the new pygobject stable update?
[13:16] <mterry> seb128, yeah.  I'm fine.  My roommate is sick, so I may have escaped the ubuflu only to run into the arms of the everyday flu.  :)
[13:16] <seb128> mterry, :-(
[13:17] <seb128> mterry, with some luck it's the same flu you had before UDS and you are immune to it still ;-)
[13:17] <mterry> Here's hoping
[13:17] <seb128> mterry, I'm reviewing blueprint, is there any design document for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-update-manager ?
[13:18] <seb128> mterry, if so it would be nice to add the whiteboard
[13:18] <seb128> mterry, doh, just saw the "Read the full specification" link
[13:18] <seb128> ignore the question ;-)
[13:18] <mterry> seb128, :)
[13:19] <mterry> seb128, just filed a merge request to drop the changelog view in update-manager.  QQ  it will be missed
[13:19] <seb128> mterry, set it to review if it's good to be reviewed (seems to be the case)
[13:19] <pitti> sefewf wefadmed
[13:19] <seb128> pitti, time to change password
[13:19] <seb128> ;-)
[13:19] <Laney> there are still quite some glib-single-include bugs<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:21] <pitti> e
[13:21] <pitti> seb128: yes, can do; packaging 3.2.2 ATM
[13:21] <pitti> seb128: then I'll just need to mangle the changelog and upload
[13:21] <seb128> pitti, great, thanks
[13:22]  * pitti needs to get back to a working computer
[13:22] <pitti> whatever that glib test suite does, it's super-evil
[13:22] <pitti> first it broke my keyboard, now it froze my X session
[13:22] <pitti> dbus-launch weechat in a VT FTW
[13:22] <seb128> pitti, btw for things like nautilus 3.4.2 which has fixes that are in 3.5 git
[13:22] <seb128> do you want the fixes backported in quantal at the same time?
[13:23] <seb128> or is it fine to wait for 3.5.2 tarball to get them in quantal?
[13:23] <seb128> (we already have 3.5.1 but those commits will be in .2)
[13:23] <pitti> seb128: we can't miss them this way, so please mention that on the bugs, and add a quantal task
[13:24] <seb128> pitti, I did that, thanks
[13:37] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:37] <seb128> how are you? had a good flight back?
[13:37] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[13:37] <kenvandine> yup, and you?
[13:38] <seb128> quite good thanks, we did got a airbus a380, great plane
[13:38] <seb128> i.e lot less noisy that other planes
[13:38] <kenvandine> nice!
[13:38] <seb128> which is good ;-)
[13:38]  * mlankhorst didn't have trouble sleeping from noise, just lack of night
[13:39] <kenvandine> i did a fresh install of quantal yesterday
[13:39] <mterry> mpt, I just noticed a tiny line in your update-manager spec that says "Below the list of updates should be a pane describing the selected update. This pane should be collapsed by default."  I almost missed that and thought there was no changelog box at all.  Is that pane the same changelog pane we have now or some future more user-friendly description that we don't have the architecture for yet
[13:39] <mterry> ?
[13:40] <seb128> kenvandine, how did it go?
[13:40] <mpt> mterry, it's collapsed by default *because* we don't have an architecture for user-friendly description of updates
[13:40] <kenvandine> smooth, besides trying to use thunderbird :)
[13:40] <mpt> mterry, so yes, it's the existing changelog pane
[13:40] <kenvandine> thunderbird still defaults to syncing all mail
[13:40] <kenvandine> it was pegging my cpu for a couple hours yesterday and an hour this morning
[13:41] <kenvandine> before i disabled syncing mail locally :)
[13:41] <seb128> kenvandine, btw there is an empathy 3.4.2 update if you feels like sruing it
[13:41] <kenvandine> seb128, bcurtiswx is already doing it
[13:41] <seb128> ok, great
[13:41] <kenvandine> and folks as well
[13:41] <bcurtiswx> seb128, yes i'm on it.. it's the remembering how to after a year thats slow ;)
[13:41] <mterry> mpt, so the current pane is actually a notebook with two tabs -- the changelog and the package description.  Do you want the description dropped?
[13:41] <seb128> kenvandine, bcurtiswx: ok, great ;-)
[13:42] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, no big rush, let me know if you need any help
[13:42] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, as always I will. :)
[13:42] <kenvandine> seb128, my brain was mush yesterday... a good day to migrate data and do an install :)
[13:42] <mpt> mterry, yes, I think so ... But I don't actually know whether people use the Description tab currently. Do you use it?
[13:43] <mterry> mpt, no, but I'm not the target audience.  :)  I could imagine someone that doesn't know what the heck a firefox is might want it
[13:43] <mterry> But I suppose packages describe themselves in the main list
[13:44] <mpt> mterry, applications will, at least
[13:44] <mterry> And again, those are rarely written for end users
[14:06] <seb128> jbicha, hey
[14:06] <jbicha> seb128: hi
[14:06] <seb128> jbicha, how are you?
[14:07] <seb128> jbicha, would you like to sru the clutter 1.10.4 update? it should fix bug #990302
[14:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 990302 in clutter-gtk "Scrolling for embedded Gtk+ widgets is broken in Clutter" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990302
[14:07] <jbicha> I'm doing pretty good, and yes I was thinking of doing the clutter SRU this week
[14:08] <seb128> jbicha, ok great, I let it for you then ;-)
[14:10] <jbicha> seb128: could you sync jhbuild from unstable and gcr from experimental?
[14:10] <seb128> jbicha, ok
[14:15] <mterry> bryceh, I have a patch piloting scheduled this thursday.  You have one next thursday.  I'm looking to swap
[14:46] <Sweetshark> seb128: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-packaging https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-qa-testsuites https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-libreoffice-split marked for review. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-libreoffice-lo-menubar-polish still pending some feedback by olli (which might actually already be there, but I am having an em
[14:46] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[14:46] <seb128> Sweetshark, irc cut your lines after "but I am having an"
[14:47] <seb128> "but I am having an em"
[14:47] <seb128> rather
[14:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, current firefox (quantal) behaves odd -- when I switch to a tab that I didn't look at before (since starting firefox) it clears and loads the tab instead of showing the old page; that worked fine in previous releases
[14:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: known to you or want to get a bug for it?
[14:52] <seb128> mvo, hey
[14:53] <seb128> mvo, is there any new on the s-c and friends srus? ;-)
[14:57] <Sweetshark> seb128: ... but I am having an email blackout because of system reinstall) ...
[14:57] <pitti> seb128: glib 3.3.1 LGTM, uploading to experimental/quantal
[14:58] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[14:58] <seb128> larsu_, ^
[14:58] <larsu> seb128, \o/
[14:59] <pitti> larsu: oh, you were waiting for this?
[14:59] <larsu> seb128, is it safe to upgrade to q yet?
[15:00] <pitti> larsu: quite fine ATM
[15:00] <pitti> larsu: dist-upgrade on Friday was flawless, and today's dist-upgrade too
[15:00] <pitti> larsu: however, daily stability promise is only for and after alpha-1
[15:00] <pitti> so double-check apt-get dist-upgrade output before it removes half your desktop :)
[15:03] <jibel> Sweetshark, I'm setting up the env for LO testing but it failed to build on quantal http://paste.ubuntu.com/989053/
[15:03] <larsu> pitti, yeah I'm really paranoid about dist-upgrade these days... I've been bitten by that before ;)
[15:04] <larsu> pitti, I'll probably wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading my main machine
[15:11] <Sweetshark> jibel: oh, nice!
[15:15] <Sweetshark> jibel: hmm, I do not have an immediate fix/solution for that one ...
[15:16] <jibel> Sweetshark, no problem, I'm on vacation until next Monday :)
[15:18] <jibel> I'll file a bug with the log. there is also a dependency error on gcj-jdk
[15:20] <mvo> seb128: yes, I juszt uploaded it
[15:20] <seb128> mvo, \o/
[15:38] <pitti> good night everyone!
[15:41] <didrocks> have a good night pitti
[16:44] <mvo> seb128: I just noticed a regression, could you reject it again?
[16:48] <seb128> mvo, done
[16:52] <mvo> thanks seb128
[17:02] <didrocks> ok, time for dinner and evening here
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sorry, been out for another eye appointment this afternoon
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to switch firefox back to the old gcc later for now, maybe try again after that?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> there are multiple test failures that suggest another miscompile :(
[17:17] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[17:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, had a good flight back?
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it wasn't too bad, although i didn't manage to sleep
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> how about you?
[17:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we lost you at the airport and didn't manage to say goodbye
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok ;)
[17:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the flight was great, a380 for the win
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> nice :)
[17:18] <seb128> that was a lot less noisy than the other old planes we usually have
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not been on one yet
[17:18] <seb128> not to mention recent tv system and usb plugs in the arm rest parts
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> and engines that don't fall apart when a fan blade breaks ;)
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j973645y5AA)
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[17:19] <seb128> lol
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, that's the sort of thing i want to see on the in-flight entertainment :)
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> as well as a few air crash investigation episodes
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> i'm always watching that at home!
[17:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you want to watch people run out of the plane? ;-)
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> heh
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> it would be a more comfortable flight :)
[17:24] <kenvandine> seb128, mind giving this a once over? lp:~ken-vandine/ayatana-scrollbar/package
[17:24] <kenvandine> it is a big change, moving from shared lib to gtk module
[17:24] <bryceh> mterry, fine by me to swap
[17:25] <mterry> bryceh, cool, thanks
[17:25] <kenvandine> seb128, that is destined to the scrollbars ppa for precise
[17:25] <seb128> kenvandine, you mean quantal?
[17:25] <kenvandine> no, building for precise to the ppa
[17:25] <kenvandine> not destined for precise
[17:25] <kenvandine> :)
[17:26] <kenvandine> i'll upload to quantal too
[17:26] <kenvandine> soon
[17:26] <seb128> kenvandine, is there anything in particular you want me to check there?
[17:27] <seb128> kenvandine, btw aruiz mentioned last week that he fixed the lo-menubar print preview segfault bug, did you SRU that yet? is that on your list?
[17:27] <kenvandine> well, it is no longer a shared lib
[17:27] <kenvandine> but a gtk module
[17:27] <kenvandine> i didn't see that
[17:28] <kenvandine> so i renamed the packages, etc
[17:28] <kenvandine> got a bug #?
[17:28] <seb128> kenvandine, #754562
[17:28] <kenvandine> thx
[17:28] <kenvandine> bug  #754562
[17:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 754562 in lo-menubar "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_lookup() (Libreoffice with lo-menubar crash from page preview)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754562
[17:29] <kenvandine> wow... lots of dupes
[17:29] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, i didn't ping around at the sprint to get it fixed for no reason :p
[17:29] <kenvandine> so i guess it was fixed after the release i uploaded to quantal :)
[17:29] <seb128> kenvandine, he mentioned on our way to the GNOME dinner that he had the fix commited and that he pinged you about it IIRC
[17:30] <seb128> seems like miscommunication
[17:30] <seb128> can you check with him?
[17:30] <kenvandine> oh... he pinged me with a new release
[17:30] <seb128> right
[17:30] <kenvandine> i'll find the fix and cherry pick it
[17:30] <seb128> that has the fix for that bug
[17:30] <seb128> thanks
[17:30] <kenvandine> it included a few fixes
[17:30] <seb128> well, fixes are SRU welcome
[17:30] <seb128> if that's only fixes maybe SRU the new version
[17:31] <kenvandine> i'll look, it included changes that got merged into LO upstream
[17:31] <kenvandine> i'll look
[17:31] <seb128> thanks
[19:52] <jcastro> kenvandine: ok I get your request
[19:52] <jcastro> and a black window
[19:52] <jcastro> kenvandine: ok it's just slow, it works
[19:52] <kenvandine> are you controlling it now?
[19:52] <kenvandine> :)
[19:53] <kenvandine> jorge is awesome
[19:53] <kenvandine> ha!
[19:53] <jcastro> yes, controlling it now. :)
[19:53] <kenvandine> :-D
[19:53] <kenvandine> it is slow
[19:53] <kenvandine> ok, so it is fixed in quantal :)
[19:53] <kenvandine> hang on, testing again
[19:54] <kenvandine> nothing...
[19:54] <kenvandine> ok, so it is ignored in precise until i enable sharing
[19:54] <kenvandine> so i just need to backport that fix too
[19:54] <kenvandine> jcastro, are you getting my messages?
[19:55] <kenvandine> if not, go offline and online again
[20:27] <seb128> kenvandine, your overlay-scrollbar update seems fine to me
[20:34] <kenvandine> seb128, thx!
[20:34] <seb128> yw ;-)
[20:34]  * kenvandine uploads yet another vino SRU
[20:36] <seb128> kenvandine, did you backport the other fixes pointed on the bug?
[20:36] <kenvandine> for vino?
[20:36] <kenvandine> it was like 6 commits
[20:36] <seb128> yes
[20:36] <kenvandine> i got them all
[20:36] <seb128> ok
[20:36] <seb128> great work ;-)
[20:36] <kenvandine> :)
[20:37] <kenvandine> wish we had noticed vino being busted before 12.04 :)
[20:37] <seb128> yeah, another things we could improve our testing on...
[20:37] <kenvandine> yeah :(
[20:37] <kenvandine> so many details to test for so many packages
[20:37] <kenvandine> we need to figure out a way to manage that
[20:37] <kenvandine> it is hard enough to do that for our internal upstreams
[20:38] <seb128> well, the only true way is the rickspencer3's way
[20:38] <seb128> just add an automated test every time we fix a such issues to make sure it doesn't come back
[20:39] <seb128> we should at least make a list of those things we should automate test at some point
[20:40] <kenvandine> seb128, i also rolled in the 3.4.2 release
[20:40] <kenvandine> which was just an upstream translation
[20:40] <seb128> excellent
[20:40] <seb128> we just need to get RAOF or pitti to wave in some of the SRUs waiting in the queue tomorrow next ;-)
[20:49] <bcurtiswx> also the debian sync of folks would be great so it can be backported to precise
[20:59] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i'll look at sponsoring empathy for you tomorrow... bzr is giving me a traceback on merging your branch
[20:59] <bcurtiswx> i crashed bzr ?
[21:00] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:00] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:00] <bcurtiswx> could it be the bzr remove you had me do?
[21:00] <kenvandine> MalformedTransform: Tree transform is malformed [('versioning no contents', 'new-31')]
[21:00] <kenvandine> no
[21:01] <kenvandine> that was just cleaning up quilt stuff
[21:01] <kenvandine> i'll fix it up in the morning :)
[21:01] <kenvandine> i gotta get away from the computer for now... good night all!
[21:01] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sounds good. nite
[21:02] <bcurtiswx> im heading out too nite all
[22:38] <robert_ancell> pitti, did you work out that gtk+ compile crash?  I'm still getting it on the latest version
[22:48] <RAOF> What's this about SRUs waiting in the queue?  I flushed the queues yesterday! ☺
[22:49] <TheMuso> heh
[22:49] <TheMuso> GNOME 3.4.2 is out, thats what. :)
[22:52] <jbicha> desrt: how do those per-session gsettings overrides work?
[22:52] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF TheMuso robert_ancell bryceh meeting reminder https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-05-15
[22:52] <jasoncwarner_> please add your agenda items
[22:53] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, no page there?
[22:53] <TheMuso> Yeah I saw the same thing earlier.
[22:54] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: hmm...wonder where EU folk put it...one sec
[22:54] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, I just made a new entry
[22:57] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: ok
[22:58] <bryceh> heh
[22:59] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, I counted up the bugs on that multi-monitor blueprint.  We got to 66%.
[22:59] <TheMuso> So given its only been a few days since UDS, I have no agenda items.
[23:01] <RAOF> Likewise :)
[23:01] <bryceh> RAOF, well we could chat about the LTS point release ppa
[23:01] <RAOF> We could, true.
[23:03] <bryceh> RAOF, rickspencer had asked if we could have a PPA ready for testing within a week.  think that's possible?
[23:03] <RAOF> I don't see why not.
[23:04] <RAOF> Of course, that's kinda the point - to find out :)
[23:05] <RAOF> I see that Maarten's done a couple of test PPAs, but I haven't checked out their contents yet.
[23:07] <bryceh> RAOF, one thing we need to do is nail down the exact list of packages to be renamed
[23:08] <bryceh> I have a start of a list in the xorg tools bzr tree you can look at
[23:12] <RAOF> There seem to be a lot more -dev packages in there than I expected - do we actually need to backport all the protocol libraries?
[23:12] <bryceh> those were all referenced somewhere in the xorg-server control or rules files
[23:12] <RAOF> Or is this pessimistic - assuming that X might start using new features of things like libdbus?
[23:13] <bryceh> if there are binary packages in xorg-server we don't intend to provide in updates, that could help drop a lot of those
[23:13]  * RAOF eyes xvfb
[23:17] <bryceh> yeah I don't know what to do about some of the third party dependencies.  if there's any you think we should mull over particularly, maybe a discussion on ubuntu-x@ would be in order
[23:18] <RAOF> bryceh: I think all the things which need the protocol libraries (as opposed to the protocol *headers*) are things like xdmx, xephyr, etc.  They're not going to see *any* commits between now and 14.04, so they won't need newer libraries.
[23:19] <bryceh> okie
[23:19] <RAOF> I therefore think that building against the 12.04 libx*-dev packages will be fine, and we won't need to backport/rename them.
[23:21] <RAOF> The only thing we're likely to miss out on then is integration tests - *they're* likely to need the protocol libs, and will be testing new protocol.  We'd be able to not build those tests, though.
[23:23] <bryceh> right
[23:27] <RAOF> I'll send a message to ubuntu-x@


[08:49] <bspencer_> moimart, what are the changes you are making to libhildondesktop?
[08:49] <bspencer_> hd_ ?
[10:03] <jozzel> load -u tftp://<IP_ADDRESS>/openrg.img
[10:03] <jozzel> oops
[10:03] <jozzel> wrong copy paste
[01:39] <BenC> robr: jpan's zinc.ubuntu.com account is created
[03:46] <bspencer_> moimart, morning
[04:38] <bspencer_> agoliveira_lunch, hildon-desktop-dev pkg is broken
[05:29] <bspencer_> moimart, tko :  are you guys around?
[05:29] <bspencer_> when building hildon-desktop, I get errors looking for HILDONBASELIB_CFLAGS
[05:47] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Hi. I'm working on the dev packages. What is the problem?
[05:58] <bspencer_> agoliveira, hey my friend.  I get this error:
[05:58] <bspencer_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[05:58] <bspencer_>   hildon-desktop-dev: Depends: libhildondesktop-dev but it is not going to be installed
[05:58] <bspencer_>                       Depends: libhildonwm-dev but it is not going to be installed
[05:58] <bspencer_> when I run:  apt-get install hildon-desktop-dev
[05:58] <bspencer_> I am able to successfully install libhildonfm2-dev
[05:59] <bspencer_> but when I try to install libhildonwm-dev, I get:
[05:59] <bspencer_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[05:59] <bspencer_>   libhildonwm-dev: Depends: libhildon1-dev but it is not installable or
[05:59] <bspencer_>                             hildon-libs-dev but it is not installable
[06:00] <bspencer_> and libhildon1-dev doesn't exist (anymore).  I think it is supposed to be libhildon-1-dev
[06:00] <bspencer_> but even libhildon-1-dev I think should be called libhildon-1-0-dev  ...  :)
[06:01] <bspencer_> because there is a libhildon-1-0 and libhildon-1-0-dbg package, but no libhildon-1  pkg.
[06:06] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Got it.
[06:06] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I found part of it myself yesterday. I'll see to fix it.
[06:06] <bspencer_> cool
[06:10] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Is there anything of this being a show stopper or can you work around? I wanted to think a bit better about that, perhaps change the package naming, etc, and this can take a while to bake.
[06:11] <bspencer_> depends on what "a while'" means
[06:12] <bspencer_> I am currently working with a svn checkout of hildon-desktop while I wait for our dev packages and source
[06:12] <bspencer_> but would really like to move to apt pkgs by Friday
[06:13] <agoliveira> bspencer_: In that case, it will be better just to fix the deppendencies for now so you can move on.
[06:13] <bspencer_> that said, I'm all for a better package naming scheme.  What do you have in mind
[06:13] <agoliveira> bspencer_: I think that by tomorrow this should be ok.
[06:16] <agoliveira> bspencer_: To be sincere, I don't have much of an idea so far. Perhaps would be better to raise this issue over the sprint when we  will be all together.
[06:17] <bspencer_> ok.  then I think we should get the dependencies working.  I'll check again tomorrow
[06:23] <bspencer_> agoliveira, quick process question...
[06:24] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Shoot
[06:24] <bspencer_> if I have something in bazaar which has already been pulled into gusty apt repository, do changes I make to the bazaar package get pulled in automatically?
[06:24] <bspencer_> or do I have to request an update
[06:24] <agoliveira> bspencer_: It's not automatic. Someone with privileges has to do it.
[06:24] <bspencer_> for example, osso-af-settings is a pkg in gutsy already.  I need to tweak it.
[06:25] <bspencer_> what are the steps I should take
[06:25] <agoliveira> bspencer_: After the sprint I hope to be able to do it myself.
[06:26] <agoliveira> bspencer_: Due our different time zones, I think that would be better you send me or Tollef an email and we can forward your request.
[06:26] <bspencer_> ok.  sounds like a plan.
[06:27] <agoliveira> bspencer_: After the sprint we should be able to do it more smoothly.
[06:28] <agoliveira> BTW, gosh, it's in less than 3 weeks already....
[07:17] <tko> bspencer: you should be able to remove all references to hildon-base-lib and alternate spellings. we've removed the library (same functionality exists in gnome-vfs and inotify) so all remaining references are bugs
[08:01] <robr> BenC, did you get a chance to look at the patches that Jacob sent you?
[08:02] <robr> BenC, what's the correct method to get them into your kernel tree? you check them or do we?
[08:33] <rusty_> bobux, oh really?
[08:34] <agoliveira> I'm going to be offline for about 45 min and return with my ADSL better, faster, stronger (C) - Daft Punk
[08:34] <agoliveira> CU later
[08:46] <bspencer_> if I comment out that line, I get: 'dbus_glib_background_manager_object_info' undeclared (first use in this function)
[08:47] <bspencer_> oops :P
[08:52] <agoliveira> Well, didn't expect as well as I tought. The new line didn't sync. We should try again a bit later :(
[08:54] <agoliveira> I meant: didn't work as well as I expected :)
[09:03] <BenC> robr: the best method is to clone our tree, apply them, and then request a pull from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:04] <BenC> robr: amitk is checking those patches you sent into our tree though
[09:26] <jacob-laptop> BenC: should i put my git repo on zinc for amitk to pull?
[09:27] <BenC> jacob-laptop: as long as it's based on our tree, sure
[09:27] <jacob-laptop> ok
[09:27] <BenC> jacob-laptop: if you are doing from our tree, it would make things easier if you could follow our commit templates in debian/commit-templates/
[09:27] <BenC> not required, but makes our changelog cleaner
[09:28] <BenC> for commits we do "git-commit -s -F debian/commit-templates/patch -e"
[09:28] <BenC> and it's got lots of comments
[09:28] <jacob-laptop> that is good to know
[09:29] <BenC> jacob-laptop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam has some docs on how we work from the tree and do uploads and builds
[09:29] <BenC> main wiki page -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMaintenance
[09:29] <jacob-laptop> i was gonna ask for this, thanks.
[09:34] <BenC> jacob-laptop: np, here if you have any questions
[10:51] <amitk> robr, jacob-laptop: Let me know if create a git repo for me to pull from. I will be working on that tomorrow
[11:01] <robr> amitk, ok
[12:08] <bspencer_> agoliveira, question about hildon-desktop
[12:10] <bspencer_> I think it should depend on some packages:  gtk2-engines-sapwood, hildon-theme-plankton
[12:10] <bspencer_> (or include)
[12:12] <bspencer_> and where is hildon-control-panel-l10n-engb ?
[12:17] <agoliveira> bspencer_: 1) Yes, I think you're right but we decided to wait until we check how we would handle themes or not?
[12:19] <agoliveira> bspencr_: 2) This package is  into the hal-marketing-release IIRC (I'm updating my machine to gutsy and I can't tell you for sure right now).


[00:34] <mrand> Glockster should try a different browser, or try blocking flash (or uninstalling it altogether)
[00:34] <mrand> but he's gone for now


[03:54] <sbalneav> Evening all
[05:22] <nicetry> how do i install the fonts for wine file/?
[05:26] <sbalneav> Pardon?
[05:26] <sbalneav> Not sure what you mean.
[05:36] <nicetry> when i open a program useing wine file the program opens but does not show the font
[05:39] <sbalneav> Which program?  I need a little more information.
[05:40] <sbalneav> I'm using wine here, and things work ok for me.
[05:44] <sbalneav> If you run winmine, you you see the fonts?
[06:01] <sbalneav> moquist!
[06:01] <sbalneav> Hey, dude!
[06:01] <sbalneav> How's the system?
[06:07] <moquist> sbalneav: coming right along. 2 of my 3 RAID5 drives died on the same day...the day when I began to rsync my data to my new server.
[10:09] <vbu-Ingvar> whats the release-date for Gutsy?
[10:10] <joebob777as7> 19th
[10:40] <RichEd> ping ogra
[01:34] <Kubuntu> Eyy
[01:35] <Kubuntu> How do I start Thin Client Manager?
[04:17] <bddebian> Heya
[04:17] <RichEd> hi bddebian
[04:18] <bddebian> Hello RichEd
[04:35] <RichEd> ogra: any feedback on the beta yet ?
[04:35] <RichEd> any major problems reported ?
[04:35] <ogra> well, given that i couldnt get any mails until now i'm not sure
[04:36] <ogra> nothing in the bugs though beyond the destrous ones we already have
[04:36] <RichEd> i haven't seen any heated issues in this channel yet :)
[04:36] <ogra> *desastrous
[04:36] <sbalneav_> Disasterous?
[04:36] <ogra> well, the installer needs to work, which it doesnt yet ... and i'm solwly running out of time
[04:37] <RichEd> disastrous i think
[04:37] <ogra> sbalneav_, thanks
[04:37] <ogra> yeah
[04:37] <sbalneav_> We'll get it right eventually :)
[04:37] <ogra> the question is *when is eventually*
[04:37] <ogra> i'm missing time to work on it
[04:37] <sbalneav_> So, what's you're rate of "running out of time"?  1s/s?
[04:37] <sbalneav_> :)
[04:37] <ogra> sbalneav_, some business things that have to go first
[04:37] <sbalneav_> ah
[04:38] <ogra> plus my server brakdown that will still cost me the rest of the day so i get to a minimal mail state here again
[04:38] <ogra> i got the major stuff switched over to gmail ... but not all yet
[04:43] <ogra> sbalneav_, did you try an ltsp-build-clien with the recent package ?
[04:44] <sbalneav_> Did one 2 days ago
[04:44] <sbalneav_> worked ok for me.
[04:44] <ogra> all fine ?
[04:44] <ogra> phew
[04:44] <ogra> at least that works :)
[04:44] <sbalneav_> lol
[04:44] <sbalneav_> I haven't done any fresh cd installs yet.
[04:45] <sbalneav_> Should I hold off for now?
[04:45] <ogra> you can try but there were no changes since beta progress gets stuck at 0% for 20min
[04:48] <ogra> bad thing is that fixing it is *extremely* time consuming
[04:49] <ogra> (you need to do a complete install to test every change ... )
[05:28] <New2this> hi
[05:28] <New2this> i have an edubuntu 7.10 problem
[05:29] <New2this> the dhcp server doesnt seem to be working ( clean install )
[05:29] <New2this> and becasue if that i cant get the LTSP to work either
[05:29] <New2this> i have no idea how to "fix" this broken beta ?
[05:30] <New2this> ...
[05:31] <ogra> New2this, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/145382 ??
[05:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145382 in udev "[Gutsy]  broken 70-persistent-net.rules" [High,Confirmed]
[05:31] <ogra> check /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[05:32] <ogra> if that has anything like ATTRS{address}=="" then its the same bug
[05:32] <New2this> that bugs page loads up blank for me
[05:32] <New2this> checking 70-persistant now
[05:32] <ogra> the bugpage looks fine here
[05:33] <New2this> this is a vista machine... probbly why it dont work lol
[05:33] <ogra> heh
[05:34] <sgonzalez> Hi.. I have fiesty set up as a terminal server. I occasionally have a user whose desktop comes up with no menus across the top and no items on their desktop. When that happens, I generally back up their files, then run rm -rf <user home directory> and they log in and get a new home. I have a user for whom this desktop issue is persisting, and in fact it remembers her desktop background. Any ideas why I can't seem to get rid of this problem?
[05:34] <New2this> found tyhe file
[05:34] <New2this> 70-persistent-net.rules
[05:34] <New2this> it has 9 entrys
[05:35] <New2this> ATTRS{address}=="" some eth0 some eth1
[05:35] <ogra> do you have 9 network cards ?
[05:35] <ogra> heh, yes
[05:35] <New2this> 2 2 cards
[05:35] <New2this> *2
[05:35] <ogra> fix that file and you should be fine
[05:35] <New2this> just delete the ARRT lines ?
[05:35] <New2this> *ATTR
[05:36] <ogra> i.e. remove all entries that have no MAC address in ATTRS{address}==""
[05:36] <ogra> and then ifx the remaining ones
[05:36] <New2this> ok...
[05:36] <New2this> the last 2 entries are correct
[05:36] <ogra> next reboot all should be fine
[05:36] <New2this> that have the addresses eth2 and 3
[05:37] <ogra> make them eth0 and eth1
[05:37] <ogra> on reboot udev will then do the right thing
[05:38] <New2this> ok cool
[05:38] <New2this> just gotta edit it in nano..
[05:40] <New2this> ok rebooting linux box
[05:43] <cliebow_> anyone care to help with an upgrade prob? associated with hal?
[05:43] <ogra> not sure there is a fix yet ...
[05:43] <ogra> the upgrade cant restart it, right ?
[05:44] <cliebow_> know n issue though?
[05:44] <cliebow_> restart dies at kernel log daemon
[05:44] <ogra> i saw a powermanager bug that was based on this one
[05:44] <ogra> well, thats not hal then but syslog
[05:45] <cliebow_> so i stated machine in what i had.... slax..and did a chroot..and dist-upgrade..that dies with hal..
[05:46] <ogra> ah
[05:46] <ogra> mounted roc in the chroot ?
[05:46] <ogra> *proc
[05:46] <ogra> hald will likely want to look at /proc/sys stuff
[05:46] <cliebow_> where should i go from here...
[05:46] <ogra> chrooting doesnt mount it :)
[05:47] <ogra> if you are in the chroot make sure /proc and /sys are mounted
[05:47] <cliebow_> seems not to..
[05:47] <cliebow_> ok..
[05:47] <ogra> make your upgrade ... and dont forget to unmount both before leaving the chroot
[05:47] <cliebow_> k
[05:48] <cliebow_> it is comtinuing on..maybe that satisfied it..
[05:52] <New2this> my dhcp still wont start :(
[05:52] <New2this> i can now stop it successfully
[05:52] <ogra> the interface is there now ?
[05:52] <New2this> but still comes up with a fail when i try to start it
[05:52] <ogra> check with "ifconfig -a"
[05:53] <New2this> both present and accounted for
[05:53] <New2this> neither have an ip address
[05:54] <New2this> before i edited the file, my want card would get an ip address and allow internet access
[05:54] <New2this> *wan
[05:55] <New2this> in the file i deleted all the spare ATTRS lines
[05:56] <New2this> now i have #pci device .. blagh blah
[05:56] <New2this> two times
[06:02] <ogra> yeah thats fine
[06:02] <ogra> check /etc/network/interfaces
[06:02] <ogra> it should at least ave an entry for th static ltsp device
[06:03] <ogra> probably they are the wrong way around now
[06:03] <ogra> (eth0 swapped with eth1)
[06:03] <New2this> ok checking
[06:09] <New2this> just waiting for computer to finish rebooting again
[06:11] <New2this> SUCCESS!!!!
[06:11] <New2this> MUWAHAHA!!!
[06:11] <ogra> good :)
[06:11] <New2this> Thank you!!
[06:12] <New2this> 12 computers now booting up via PXE
[06:12] <New2this> such a beautil thnig to see
[06:12] <New2this> :)
[06:12] <ogra> :)
[06:12] <ogra> there might be another bug with the login, but lets see
[06:13] <New2this> hmm
[06:13] <New2this> youre right
[06:13] <New2this> i cant login
[06:14] <New2this> work station isnt authorised
[06:14] <ogra> right
[06:14] <ogra> run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[06:14] <ogra> and afterwards: sudo ltsp-update-image ....
[06:14] <ogra> have a coffee ....
[06:14] <ogra> reboot the clients if thats finished
[06:16] <New2this> lol u wernt joking about the coffee comment
[06:16] <ogra> nope :) it takes a moment
[06:17] <ogra> sorry that the keys are not proper is my fault ... will be fixed soon
[06:17] <New2this> thats not a problem
[06:17] <New2this> ubuntu is easier to use than suse
[06:17] <New2this> thats y im getting to grips, im migrating over :)
[06:17] <ogra> well, for impatient users it can be a prob :)
[06:18] <ogra> and its actually really a silly oversight ...
[06:18] <New2this> well you probbably have loooads of code to look at... matrix style lol
[06:18] <New2this> so easy to miss
[06:18] <New2this> :)
[06:19] <ogra> heh, its filed already as bug #145514 :)
[06:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145514 in ltsp "interface nonexistent in the installer for ssh key creation" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145514
[06:19] <New2this> doh lol :)
[06:22] <New2this> Success!!!!
[06:22] <New2this> this is fantastic
[06:22] <ogra> :)
[06:22] <ogra> enjoy
[06:22] <New2this> i thank you wholeheartedly
[06:22] <New2this> now ive really got to get to work lol
[06:22] <New2this> heeh
[06:22] <ogra> well, thanks for using it :)
[06:22] <New2this> c you again mate :)
[06:23] <New2this> thanks!
[06:23] <ogra> i'm here :)
[07:15] <cliebow_> Hmmm.Still dies at :starting kernel log daemon
[07:27] <lns> has anyone used Mavis Beacon typing tutor under Edubuntu/LTSP?
[08:03] <LaserJock> ogra: something I can help with?
[08:03] <ogra> LaserJock, ?
[08:03] <ogra> you mean my mdke ping ?
[08:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:03] <ogra> just wanted to know about the status for the yelp frontpage fix
[08:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:04] <LaserJock> I talked to mdke about it
[08:04] <ogra> ok
[08:04] <LaserJock> and he didn't even remember us doing it in Feisty
[08:04] <ogra> hmm
[08:04] <LaserJock> he emailed Don Scrogie the Yelp dev
[08:04] <ogra> ok
[08:05] <ogra> i'm thinking about a fallback with a .desktop file on the system menu ...
[08:05] <LaserJock> because yelp's had some major changes mdke wasn't certain that we'd be able to do it
[08:05] <ogra> so the edubuntu handbook has its own entry
[08:05] <LaserJock> the first time around involved adding some logic (if the handbook is available, then display it)
[08:05] <LaserJock> and he was uncertain if he could do that with the new yelp
[08:06] <LaserJock> we'd need to patch gnome-panel for that
[08:06] <ogra> are you sure ?
[08:07] <LaserJock> yep, those menu items are hard-coded in
[08:07] <LaserJock> to get About Edubuntu I had to do it anyway
[08:07] <LaserJock> KDE is much easier when it comes to this kind of stuff
[08:08] <LaserJock> Gnome hasn't caught on that people might want to change things around easily ;-)
[08:10] <LaserJock> ogra: either  we patch gnome-panel or gnome-menus
[08:10] <ogra> hmm, right
[08:10] <ogra> even alacarte doesnt work
[08:11] <ogra> it doesnt even throw an error pfft
[08:11] <LaserJock> yeah, the About * and Help items are hard-coded in
[08:12] <LaserJock> we can give it a couple days and see if mdke's old patch will work
[08:12] <LaserJock> but I think you're idea is a good one
[08:12] <ogra> well, alacrate could be nice and tell you about it :) instead of just swallowing what i just did
[08:12] <Amaranth> eh?
[08:12] <ogra> it lets me create a laucher ...
[08:13] <ogra> but the launcher isnt added but just vanishes
[08:13] <ogra> Amaranth, if i edit the System menu
[08:13] <ogra> nothing important... would just be nice o tell the user that he cant create launchers there
[08:16] <LaserJock> btw, edubuntu-menus will cause some issues if people use it in Gutsy
[08:16] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do with it
[08:17] <LaserJock> I want to fix it up in Hardy for sure
[08:17] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure what to do for Gutsy
[08:17] <ogra> hmm
[08:18] <ogra> if people have it already installed ...
[08:18] <ogra> could get tricky
[08:18] <LaserJock> in Gutsy we're starting to use /etc/xdg/ for a lot more things besides menus
[08:19] <LaserJock> and I'm effectively diverting /etc/xdg/ to /usr/shar/edubuntu-menus
[08:20] <LaserJock> so the biggest thing I've heard of so far is that it takes > 1min for the logout dialog to show up when you go to quit/logout/hibernate
[08:20] <ogra> eek
[08:21] <LaserJock> so basically I'm not sure what to do that will allow for upgrades and not mess up the work I'd like to do in Hardy
[08:22] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure my whole implementation is this way because Gnome doesn't properly handle XDG
[08:22] <ogra> what happens if you just take out the divert from the postinst
[08:22] <LaserJock> it's not an actual divert
[08:23] <LaserJock> I set XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to /usr/share/edubuntu-menu/
[08:23] <ogra> well, i mean make the package a no-op
[08:23] <LaserJock> when normally it goes to /etc/xdg/
[08:23] <ogra> and revert evil behavior for upgraders
[08:24] <LaserJock> well, so I can 1) disable all functionality and make the package useless for Gutsy
[08:24] <ogra> so just comenting the line that sets XDG_CONFIG_DIRS should work for both, no ?
[08:24] <ogra> whats 2 ?
[08:24] <LaserJock> do some symlinking
[08:25] <LaserJock> and try to get /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/ to be a copy of /etc/xdg/
[08:25] <ogra> hmm
[08:25] <LaserJock> the thing is all *I* want to mess around with is /etc/xdg/menus/
[08:25] <LaserJock> and that was fine because packages weren't putting anything else in /etc/xdg/
[08:26] <LaserJock> but now there's a lot more
[08:26] <nicetry> anyone know about "wine file" ?
[08:26] <ogra> yep
[08:26] <LaserJock> including the autostart stuff
[08:26] <nicetry> anyone know about "wine file" ?
[08:26] <ogra> the autostart dir was used in feisty as well
[08:26] <ogra> at least gnome-screensaver and nm used it
[08:27] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:27] <LaserJock> then it should've affected Feisty users as well :(
[08:27] <LaserJock> if we're lucky nobody actually uses edubuntu-menus ;-)
[08:28] <ogra> heh
[08:28] <ogra> there would be bugs if it were the case :)
[08:29] <LaserJock> I only found out because Ubuntu Studio is using it
[08:30] <ogra> edubuntu-menus ?
[08:30] <LaserJock> no, they created ubuntustudio-menus
[08:30] <LaserJock> but they used edubuntu-menus as a model
[08:30] <ogra> did they find a proper way ?
[08:31] <ogra> we could probably just steal theirs :)
[08:31] <LaserJock> no, they are trying to figure out what to do as well
[08:31] <ogra> ah
[08:31] <LaserJock> they've got a few ideas
[08:31] <LaserJock> so if we figure it out I guess I'll upload something
[08:37] <LaserJock> ogra: the solution that Ubuntu Studio is using is to use a dpkg-divert on the applications.menu file
[08:38] <LaserJock> we would have to dpkg-divert the whole /etc/xdg/menu/ directory
[08:38] <ogra> hmm
[08:44] <joebob777as7> ogra, any idea why my monitor will adjust fine for my server box and for my client it will not work properly? it's the right resolution but the screen is to the right about 20 pixels and the settings don't allow it to move enough...? does that make sense?
[08:46] <joebob777as7> also when i build client it will stop like this indefinately: http://www.filelime.com/upload/files/Screenshot-richardltsp_.png and if i hit enter a couple times it will do this: http://www.filelime.com/upload/files/Screenshot-richardltsp_-etc.png
[08:47] <ogra> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/handbook.png
[08:47] <ogra> joebob777as7, bug 144296 ... had no time for it yet
[08:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144296 in ltsp "ltsp-build-client fails at -- updating inetd.config" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144296
[08:49] <LaserJock> ogra: ohh, that's quite nice
[08:49] <ogra> quickly thrown together :)
[08:55] <joebob777as7> ok cool... any idea on the monitor issue?
[08:56] <joebob777as7> also if i want to install nvidia drivers for my clients i just chroot and install nvidia-glx-new?
[08:58] <ogra> and the restricted modules for i386 ... note that this will break GL on all non nvidia clients, nvidia replaces the GL libraries
[08:58] <ogra> (same goes for ati btw)
[09:00] <joebob777as7> ogra, this? linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22-12-generic - Non-free Linux 2.6.22 modules on x86/x86_64
[09:00] <ogra> no
[09:00] <ogra> -386
[09:00] <joebob777as7> how do i make it use i386? or will it automatically when i chroot in?
[09:00] <ogra> just install the linux package in the chroot
[09:01] <ogra> that depends on the linux-restricted-modules package needed for the clients
[09:01] <ogra> hmm, or better the linux-386 package
[09:01] <ogra> ;)
[09:02] <joebob777as7> well they are all running the i386 image even though they are all 64 bit capable... i do this because i still want to be able for some to bring in their laptops...
[09:02] <joebob777as7> and they all have the same nvidia 9300gs card in them
[09:02] <ogra> then it should be fine
[09:03] <ogra> if you have a mixed setup with ati/nvidia/intel 3d cards i'd actually recommend three chroots for each HW ...
[09:03] <ogra> s/for/one for/
[09:04] <joebob777as7> well all the laptops will have intel hardware... is there a way to make them all boot a different image?
[09:04] <ogra> all the same model ?
[09:05] <joebob777as7> or should i run all of my 64 bit capable clients with the 7300gs cards on amd64 and the rest of the laptops on the i386?
[09:05] <joebob777as7> no different laptop models but all will have the intel chipset
[09:06] <ogra> well, if you have a fixed set of machines with nvidia and a variable one that might be intel i'd make a chroot for the nvidia clients and set up fixed dhcp rules for them
[09:07] <ogra> and leave all other (unknown) clients on a different chroot
[09:07] <joebob777as7> uhh... lol sorry how do i do that? is there a guide?
[09:07] <ogra> there are many dhcp howtos ...
[09:08] <joebob777as7> how do i make a certain set of clients boot off of one chroot and the other set boot off of another?
[09:08] <ogra> you want to have a fixed entry in your dhcpd.conf for every nvidia based client i guess ... you can assign that by mac address
[09:10] <ogra> in gutsy you give them a different "filename" directive which then has matching nbdport as boot parameter in the pxe settings ...
[09:10] <joebob777as7> so i move the directory and if i want to rebuild the image ever i can specify the directory?
[09:11] <joebob777as7> ok and which port to use will be read from the dhcpd.conf file for the mac address?
[09:11] <ogra> you just run ltsp-build-client --chroot nvidiaroot (or how ever you want to call that)
[09:11] <ogra> in the dhcpd.conf you use: filename "/ltsp/nvidiaroot/pxelinux ......
[09:12] <ogra> find all the mach adresses for the nvidia clients and make a host specific entry with that line for each of them :)
[09:12] <ogra> s/mach/MAC/
[09:13] <joebob777as7> ok i'll give it a go! thanks a ton!
[09:13] <ogra> best is to read up about the possibilities dhcpd.conf has
[09:13] <joebob777as7> ok i'll do that
[09:13] <joebob777as7> thanks again!
[09:13] <joebob777as7> keep up the great work!
[09:13] <ogra> :)
[10:59] <sbalneav_> ogra: Still awake?
[12:10] <Blats> hi all


[08:42] <Unit193> bluesabre: xfce4-screensaver .18 is looking better to me, or less bad. :3
[10:44] <bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, we should likely pull it in


[09:36] <knome> Noskcaj, btw, did you check if the OEM installation works for xubuntu?
[09:36] <Noskcaj> no
[09:36] <knome> okay, you should have
[09:36] <knome> Noskcaj, i haven't had luck in getting oem-config (the end-user set up) to actually run, so if that's the case, there's no way for anybody to ever see the slideshow
[09:37] <knome> the problem is that the system simply refuses to boot into the end-user desktop
[09:37] <Noskcaj> I never got an iso, but when i made it, the emulator said it worked fine
[09:37] <knome> the what emulator?
[09:37] <Noskcaj> The slideshow test thing, whatever that is called
[09:37] <knome> i tested with the regular ISO as well, the system doesn't boot into the end-user mode even with that
[09:38] <knome> right... so you checked the HTML validity and such. that's nice, but it doesn't help
[09:38] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, the emulator only plays the slideshow. Don't think that it runs like ubiquity
[09:39] <knome> lunchtime
[09:39] <knome> i'll be back after that for a while
[09:39] <xnox> Noskcaj: thanks for persistently marking lubuntu not showing the correct release notes URLs. This has been fixed on the cdimage building side & on the redirector side, so friday's images release notes url should finally work properly (and e.g. studio, gnome, kylin flavours as well)
[09:40] <Noskcaj> xnox, :)
[09:40] <smartboyhw> xnox, great to hear that;)
[09:40] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, great job in doing that:)
[09:41] <Noskcaj> nearly a year of reporting that, and finally it get's fixed
[09:41] <Noskcaj> I think kubuntu did well having it point to "news", but daily build info would be heaps better
[09:49] <Noskcaj> Do we have our own tag on the ubuntuwire FTBFS list?
[09:49] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I think FTBFS has each flavour specifically tagged
[09:49] <Noskcaj> ok, then yay us, for not having any
[09:50] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, where's the page?
[09:50] <Noskcaj> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
[09:50] <Noskcaj> studio has 4, kubuntu 14
[09:51] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, in Kubuntu, some ftbfs cannot be fixed by us
[09:52] <Noskcaj> I know, most of the PPC stuff. That will all be fixed for 14.04
[10:01] <knome> ok, i'm off ->
[10:04] <Noskcaj> bye knome
[11:40] <elfy> ochosi: is there something missing from git checkout andrzejr/wrapper3 - cos it fails
[11:40] <ochosi> did you cd into the dir the clone created?
[11:40] <ochosi> (as in: cd xfce4-panel)
[11:41] <elfy> no
[11:41] <elfy> but then I'm not awake either ...
[11:41] <ochosi> ok )
[11:41] <elfy> that works ok then :p
[11:43] <elfy> I'll look later - need to install abunch of stuff as well :)
[11:44] <ochosi> sure :)
[12:02] <elfy> ochosi: so got to the last bit ... and then *** The required package libxfce4panel-2.0 was not found on your system.
[12:02] <ochosi> did you run sudo ldconfig?
[12:03] <ochosi> (oh and where did you install the panel etc. to?)
[12:03] <elfy> opened a terminal and did it all there
[12:04] <elfy> so it's all in my home
[12:04] <ochosi> so you never ran "sudo make install"?
[12:04] <elfy> yea
[12:05] <ochosi> then you'd have to add your home subdir to the library paths or something
[12:05] <ochosi> are you on a testbox?
[12:05] <elfy> ok - I'll look properly a bit later
[12:06] <elfy> sort of - this is a running 13.10 almost prod machine
[12:06] <ochosi> well to the worst you'd have to run "sudo apt-get install xfce4-panel --reinstall"
[12:06] <ochosi> that'd give you back your old panel
[12:06] <elfy> yep
[12:06] <ochosi> if you build with --prefix=/usr and overwrite your panel
[12:06] <elfy> I still have the old panel at the moment
[12:07] <ochosi> if you build without prefix, it gets installed into /usr/local/share
[12:07] <ochosi> so you can cleanly uninstall
[12:07] <elfy> yep - well Iwent the whole hog and have been using  --prefix=/usr :)
[12:07] <ochosi> well you need the panel installed in order for the plugin to find the lib
[12:08] <ochosi> unless you modify the library paths
[12:08] <elfy> just been following the mail
[12:08] <ochosi> but i can't help you much with that
[12:08] <elfy> :)
[12:10] <elfy> I'll possibly have another go in a vm later - gtg now
[12:10] <ochosi> seeya
[12:53] <jjfrv8> elfy, is it too late to add a bug to a beta testcase? Looks like I missed one.
[13:02] <elfy> jjfrv8: what bug
[13:03] <jjfrv8> a new one, as far as I can tell. Settings Manager -> Printers does not even open.
[13:03] <jjfrv8> system-config-printer gives an import error.
[13:03] <ochosi> interesting, works here (on saucy)
[13:04] <jjfrv8> In case it was my hardware, I installed Raring on it and it works there, but not with Saucy.
[13:04] <elfy> not working in this machine
[13:05] <elfy> bunch of updates for cups etc today
[13:06] <jjfrv8> running them now...
[13:07] <elfy> see if you can edit your result and add the bug - if not I'll add it
[13:08] <jjfrv8> I can't figure out how to file the bug. ubuntu-bug doesn't recognize the system-config-printer package.
[13:09] <jjfrv8> still doesn't work after running latest updates.
[13:11] <elfy> ubuntu-bug system-config-printer-gnome or -common
[13:12] <jjfrv8> which should I use?
[13:14] <elfy> no idea
[13:14] <elfy> I'd use the gnome one - someone will move it if it's wrong
[13:14] <elfy> once you've done it - I'll confirm it
[13:15] <jjfrv8> Okay, they both work but I'll use the gnome one.
[13:25] <jjfrv8> elfy, edited testcase result. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+bug/1221219
[13:33] <elfy> jjfrv8: confirmed that
[13:35] <jjfrv8> my bad for not finding that first time through :(
[13:36] <elfy> wonder if knome saw it on the 64bit one
[13:40] <jjfrv8> I can install the 64bit and check. Would that be a separate bug, an update to existing one, or neither?
[13:40] <elfy> mine's 64bit
[13:40] <elfy> same bug I'd assume
[13:40] <jjfrv8> oh, okay.
[13:41] <elfy> we'll have to follow it on the dailies as well
[13:42] <elfy> I'd guess that it's not xubuntu specific
[13:45] <jjfrv8> bbs
[14:30] <pitti> hello everyone
[14:30] <pitti> in #u-devel we just discussed bug 1221254 (just filed that for tracking)
[14:31] <pitti> does anyone know here whether we still need squeeze?
[14:31] <pitti> it's XFCEish, but not even seeded in xubuntu, and if it actually wants to use hal it's definitively broken now
[14:31] <pitti> (no idea if hal actually still worked in earlier releases)
[14:31] <pitti> so I wanted to check with you before I kill squeeze, and thus thunar-vfs
[14:31] <ochosi> hey pitti
[14:31] <pitti> (main XFCE moved to gvfs ages ago)
[14:32] <pitti> hey ochosi, how are you?
[14:32] <ochosi> fine fine :)
[14:32] <ochosi> you too i hope?
[14:32] <ochosi> (looking out of the window at canale grande in venice, so how could i not be?)
[14:32] <ochosi> there were upstream plans to rewrite squeeze
[14:32] <ochosi> in fact there is a branch
[14:32] <ochosi> but it was never finished
[14:32] <ochosi> and we haven't shipped in it ages
[14:33] <ochosi> xubuntu did s/squeeze/file-roller/ a longer while ago (can't even remember when that took place)
[14:33] <skellat> And noskcaj just filed a pretty huge bug against squeeze yesterday
[14:33] <ochosi> i personally don't see any reason why we would keep it around if you wanna kick out hal, but i'd try and get mr_pouit's opinion on it
[14:34] <ochosi> but i can also get in touch with one of the squeeze devs if you want
[14:35] <pitti> ochosi: wow, Venice!
[14:35] <pitti> never been there
[14:35] <pitti> ochosi: ah, so it sounds xubuntu wouldn't be hurt a lot by it?
[14:35] <ochosi> i don't think so
[14:35] <pitti> ochosi: of course, once there's a gvfs port of squeeze it can always be reactivated
[14:35] <skellat> pitti: LP Bug #1220902 was the latest crash bug for squeeze as it was reported in 13.10 testing.
[14:35] <pitti> but I doubt that you guys are fancy supporting thunar-vfs still?
[14:36] <ochosi> but as i'm not one of the packagers i wouldn't like be the one to "pull the trigger"
[14:36] <ochosi> no, thunar-vfs is not really in use anymore
[14:36] <pitti> ochosi: except by squeeze :)
[14:36] <pitti> which might explain quite a few crashes, too
[14:36] <ochosi> hehe
[14:36] <ochosi> yeah
[14:36] <pitti> mr_pouit: perhaps you can give a "yay" or "nay" for slashing thunar-vfs and squeeze in the bug?
[14:37] <ochosi> but it's a good motivation to give squeeze another look
[14:37] <ochosi> i'll talk to upstream and see whether we can port it
[14:38] <pitti> ochosi: thanks, appreciated
[14:38] <skellat> pitti: micahg is unavailable until the weekend and I am unsure about the availability for mr_pouit.  If you could throw an e-mail on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>it would be helpful.
[14:38] <ochosi> no problem
[14:38] <ochosi> skellat: +1
[14:38] <pitti> skellat: can you moderate this?
[14:38] <ochosi> (i was about to mention that)
[14:38] <skellat> Only pleia2 & knome can do that
[14:38] <skellat> But I can also forward anything you send me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:39] <ochosi> if you do send an email to the ML, please cc mr_pouit directly
[14:39] <ochosi> and maybe also micahg
[14:39] <skellat> I'm okay with squeeze & thunar-vfs being nuked from orbit at this point but I'd really prefer micahg and mr_pouit to have final say.
[14:41] <ochosi> +1
[14:41] <skellat> Wait
[14:41] <skellat> Never mind
[14:41] <skellat> Scratch that "Wait"
[14:41] <pitti> skellat: sent
[14:42] <pitti> skellat: thanks for relaying
[14:45] <skellat> pitti: Sent.  No problemo.  I added Micah on to the bug and added xubuntu-bugs so I can watch proceedings.
[14:45] <pitti> skellat: thanks
[14:45] <ochosi> thanks for getting in touch pitti
[14:49] <pitti> thanks to you!
[14:49] <ochosi> pitti: upstream squeeze-dev also suggested dropping it btw (just asked)
[14:50] <pitti> ochosi: ah, good
[15:16] <pitti> ochosi: so, I fixed a few others and deal with some removals, but looks like this is the main leftover
[15:16]  * pitti waves good night
[18:36] <brainwash> selecting shutdown in logout dialog returns me back to the lightdm greeter
[18:36] <brainwash> this is not the expected behavior, right?
[18:49] <Unit193> ochosi: He's got your bug.
[18:49] <Unit193> brainwash: Update or fresh install?
[18:53] <brainwash> Unit193: upgraded
[18:53] <Unit193> He did as well, while I'm pretty sure elfy (fresh install) didn't.
[18:54] <brainwash> guess I start checking some log files
[18:55] <Unit193> There may be a package in proposed to fix it, though I'm not sure I'd want to enable proposed.
[18:57] <brainwash> well, looks like there has to be a bug report for this issue, because it seems to be reproducible
[18:58] <xubuntu750> Installing 1310b1, Just a note (I'm sure you all realize this,but...) during install, the "Your Web Experience"  slide still references 13.04 and RR
[18:59] <Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-session/+bug/1178373
[18:59] <Unit193> xubuntu750: Oh?  Thanks, someone may have but I didn't.
[18:59] <xubuntu750> In the e-mail show on the right.
[19:00] <brainwash> uhm, exo-open now prefers chromium for displaying urls..
[19:01] <brainwash> so many little issues due to the upgrade I simply can't explain :D
[19:01] <Unit193> brainwash: Preferred Applications list firefox?  Also check ~/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
[19:01] <Unit193> I normally get kinks on upgrade, just takes a little time to work them out.
[19:02] <brainwash> "exo-open --launch WebBrowser" opens firefox
[19:02] <brainwash> exo-open <url> does not
[19:03] <brainwash> and speaking of firefox, some icons like the one used for the tab close button are bigger now
[19:04] <lderan> exo-open "http://bbc.co.uk" works for me
[19:05] <brainwash> it works, but does not open my preferred web browser
[19:05] <Unit193> brainwash: I'd check that file in .local
[19:06] <brainwash> Unit193: done, it contains nothing related to the http protocol
[19:06] <Unit193> Poop.
[19:06] <brainwash> maybe the global mimeapps file
[19:07] <Unit193> lderan: Your fixup for calling version in the ubiquiry slideshow got pushed, right?
[19:07] <lderan> its still pending i think, shall check
[19:08] <Unit193> Yeah. :/
[19:09] <lderan> yeah
[19:10] <brainwash> Unit193: the patched xfce4-session package has been already moved from proposed to release
[19:11] <Unit193> That's weird, ubiquity-slideshow is updated, and doesn't even use "Your Web Experience", it's now "Your internet experience" and I remember that happening.
[19:12] <lderan> think the plan is to get some more opinions on the changes on my MP
[19:12] <Unit193> lderan: In case you missed it, thanks a ton for checking the EFI thing!
[19:13] <lderan> no problem at all :)
[19:18] <Unit193> brainwash: Don't think it'll help you much, but I'll boot my Saucy VM, install chromium there and see how it goes.
[19:20] <brainwash> Unit193: no worries, I'm just a little bit confused about all these minor issues, they all seem so random
[19:34] <brainwash> Unit193: the firefox/chromium issue appeared to be related to exo-open, but it isn't
[19:35] <Unit193> And my VM is borked anywho.  Triggered elsewhere?
[19:36] <Unit193> xdg I'd assume does it as well, but that's pretty needless to say.
[19:36] <brainwash> a perl script does not call exo-open anymore (passes as paramter), it calls "sensible-browser" instead, which appears to be chromium on my system
[19:36] <brainwash> (passed as parameter)
[19:37] <Unit193> Ah, so chromium has it in it's postinst to set update-alternatives.
[19:38] <brainwash> one issue solved so far, hooray :)
[19:42] <brainwash> always fun when you avoid doing a fresh install
[19:42] <Unit193> Pains of upgrade are far less for me than it would be to reinstall.
[19:45] <brainwash> Unit193: can you confirm that some icons/symbols in firefox are slightly bigger than expected?
[19:45] <brainwash> like the tab close button
[19:53] <Unit193> They seem to be typical...
[19:58] <Unit193> knome: Meetings still seem to work best at the time they are?
[19:59] <knome> Unit193, yeah, pretty much. how so?
[20:00] <Unit193> Just was wondering.
[20:01] <knome> sure
[21:17] <Unit193> andrzejr: Howdy!
[21:17] <knome> fyi, i just posted http://xubuntu.org/news/saucy-salamander-b1/
[21:17]  * Unit193 looks.
[21:18] <andrzejr> hi
[21:18] <andrzejr> knome, what's the status of xfce4-indicator-plugin, are you still considering shipping it (gtk3 version) in 13.10?
[21:19] <knome> andrzejr, unfortunately, no
[21:19] <knome> andrzejr, we're looking to get it in saucy-backports though
[21:19] <knome> andrzejr, and if xfce 4.12 isn't ready for 14.04, it'll be definitely on our list for inclusion by default for 14.04
[21:21] <andrzejr> have you found any particular problems with it (and xfce4-panel)?
[21:23] <knome> i haven't personally been too involved with it, but there has been at least some minor problems and then problems with theming, but the the main reason why we're not making it default for 13.10 is the tight timeframe and too little testing time
[21:23] <Unit193> I think they were hopeing for an official release rather than snapshots or branches, perhaps more testing as well.
[21:24] <Unit193> knome: No pointers at currently known issues?
[21:24] <knome> you should ask ochosi and ali1234
[21:24] <ali1234> andrzejr: i found some problems, yeah
[21:24] <knome> or read the channel logs :)
[21:24] <ali1234> nothing serious, only cosmetic stuff
[21:25] <andrzejr> hi ali1234 :-)
[21:25] <andrzejr> so what did you find?
[21:26] <ali1234> well, you know that is_small() function?
[21:26] <ali1234> it makes a lot of bad assumptions
[21:26] <ali1234> like small indicators will always be square - they're not
[21:26] <ali1234> or that they will be pixbufs
[21:26] <ali1234> or that they will be 22px or smaller
[21:27] <ali1234> none of these is necessarily true
[21:27] <ali1234> also, padding labels to 22px makes them unaligned with other things on the panel
[21:28] <ali1234> since is_small breaks quite a bit, the row stacking usually doesn't work either
[21:30] <andrzejr> you mean number of rows in the panel > 1?
[21:30] <ali1234> not in the panel, just in the indicator
[21:30] <andrzejr> padding labels is indeed questionable - I'd have to replicate relevant code of gtkbox(?)
[21:30] <ali1234> like if you make the panel 60px tall it tries to do two rows of indicators
[21:31] <andrzejr> you mean you want 3?
[21:31] <ali1234> no, i want one
[21:31] <ali1234> i think that whole row stuff should go, because it doesn't work
[21:31] <andrzejr> well, that's a feature
[21:31] <andrzejr> we could have an option to disable it
[21:32] <ali1234> it would be a feature if it worked :)
[21:32] <ali1234> the padding on labels isn't real padding
[21:32] <ali1234> it just does a hack with the space allocation
[21:33] <andrzejr> well, I'm using it all the time and it works for me.
[21:33] <andrzejr> (multiple rows)
[21:33] <ali1234> yeah it does make multiple rows
[21:33] <ali1234> but only with "small" indicators
[21:33] <ali1234> sound, bluetooth, datetime don't fit the criteria
[21:34] <ali1234> sound because it's icon is 24x22, bluetooth because it's icon is 16x22
[21:34] <ali1234> and datetime because it is a label
[21:34] <andrzejr> sound, bluetooth work here, if it doesn't it is a bug
[21:34] <ochosi> sey folks, bedri e for me, i'll have to read the backlog and comment tomorrow
[21:34] <ali1234> yeah, it's a bug, because a label is only considered small if width=height
[21:34] <andrzejr> datetime is not a "small" button because it is not small :-)
[21:34] <ochosi> (still dont have a stable place to live)
[21:35] <ali1234> but this isn't a valid assumption
[21:35] <ali1234> but the bigger problem comes from the way the child allocation is done with small indicators
[21:35] <ali1234> even if you have only one row, they still don't vartically align properly
[21:36] <ali1234> the only way to fix the vertical alignment is to make them all not-small
[21:36] <andrzejr> seems like a bug
[21:36] <ali1234> or to try to fix the allocation routines, which are horribly complicated
[21:36] <ali1234> btw, what is the "maximum row height" thing in settings?
[21:36] <ali1234> i don't understand what this option is supposed to do
[21:37] <ali1234> if it's related to row stacking code, i recommend changing it to "maximum number of rows" or something
[21:37] <andrzejr> The reason I went for a custom container is precisely to avoid complexity. It was far worse before (trying to workaround) issues with stock containers
[21:37] <ali1234> then i can just set it to 1 and have is_small() return false always in this case
[21:37] <ali1234> sure but the problem isn't the custom containers... it's the implementation...
[21:38] <andrzejr> AFAIR that is a leftover from previous versions (when icons were scaled), no longer needed.
[21:38] <ochosi> andrzejr: i think one thing we should resolve is libxfce4ui not having had a dev release wi gtk3 as an option
[21:38] <andrzejr> ochosi, that, and the panel
[21:38] <ochosi> andrzejr: i've already pinged nick, but no response so far
[21:39] <ochosi> yeah but releasing a new lib version is easier than the huge merge
[21:39] <andrzejr> but knome has just said xubuntu is not shipping gtk3 version, so we have time
[21:39] <ochosi> so i ought one at a time :)
[21:39] <ochosi> yeah, indeed
[21:39] <ochosi> well backports means that people would be able to install later
[21:39] <andrzejr> ali1234, I'll add an option to disable multi-row layout - that's a fair use-case.
[21:40] <ochosi> so if they want a gtk3 indicator, all the panel, libyfce4ui and new indicator-plugin would be pulled as dependa
[21:40] <andrzejr> but multi-row layout is there to stay - I'm using it all the time in deskbar mode
[21:40] <ochosi> (i'm no packager, but that's how i understood micahg )
[21:41] <andrzejr> ochosi, and gtk2 indicators would get removed?
[21:41] <andrzejr> (are there any gtk2 indicators in 13.10?)
[21:42] <ali1234> i think appindicator and sound-gtk2 (which is broken) are the only ones
[21:43] <ochosi> yup those two
[21:43] <ochosi> but sound is borked atm
[21:43] <ochosi> (afaik)
[21:43] <ochosi> anyhoo, sorr for the quick appearance, will get read the rest tomorrow
[21:44] <ochosi> thanks for your work, andrzejr and ali1234
[21:44] <ochosi> nighty
[21:44] <ali1234> andrzejr: so the thing is, even when there's only one row, the labels etc still don't line up right without hacks
[21:44] <ali1234> it's very theme dependent though
[21:45] <ali1234> but it should not be - it should line up when there's no explicit theming
[21:45] <andrzejr> ali1234, can you tell me (exactly) how to reproduce layout issues? (theme, panel conf, size, indicator name etc.)
[21:46] <ali1234> theme = orion, icons = ubuntu-mono-light
[21:46] <ali1234> put an indicator-datetime on, and put a xfce clock next to it
[21:46] <ali1234> now resize the panel to each size between 16px and 50px
[21:46] <ali1234> sometimes they line up, sometimes they don't
[21:47] <ali1234> if you don't have orion, raleigh also does the same thing
[21:47] <andrzejr> OK, I see it. Thanks!
[21:47] <ali1234> any theme that doesn't explicitly set panel themes should do it
[21:47] <ali1234> also, if you add lots of indicators, sometimes you'll see that they bob around relative to each other
[21:48] <ali1234> that depends on whether they are small or not
[21:48] <Unit193> knome: Do you happen to know/think these will be in backports upon release?
[21:48] <knome> you need to ask micahg
[21:49] <ali1234> i found a way to fix the labels - hack the prefered height to be minimum 1px instead of ICON_SIZE and then also set the GtkAlignment valign to center instead of fill
[21:49] <ali1234> this also fixes the icons, but only if they're not small
[21:50] <ali1234> basically this: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/commit/d0573ec25bd615b6a5cb4758d240b0ae7f9b56a2
[21:50] <ali1234> but the thing is, if you do this, it makes the multirow misalignment even worse
[21:50] <andrzejr> ali1234, please make a branch and commit it
[21:50] <knome> bbl
[21:50] <knome> probably later tomorrow ->
[21:51] <Unit193> Adios.
[21:51] <ali1234> it's not a proper solution
[21:53] <andrzejr> OK, I'll have a look at it
[21:54] <ali1234> hmm how do i specify username on the git remote?
[21:54] <andrzejr> sorry, no idea
[21:54] <ali1234> i guess it's not necessary
[21:57] <ali1234> also, indicator-multiload doesn't work when the panel is rotated. did i mention that?
[21:57] <ali1234> if a pixbuf indicator is longer than a certain amount it needs to be rotated like labels are
[21:59] <ali1234> i would rather not have special casing everywhere for single row mode, but it might be the only way
[21:59] <ali1234> what i really don't understand though, is why the / 2 everywhere
[22:00] <ali1234> i'm fairly sure that is what makes it become misaligned
[22:00] <andrzejr> indicator-multiload is designed for a horizontal panel - nothing I can do about it.
[22:00] <ali1234> gtk can't rotate pixbufs?
[22:00] <andrzejr> Before I was stretching the pixbuf but I've decided not to support it any longer
[22:01] <andrzejr> I don't know but xfce4-panel doesn't rotate icons in vertical panel so I follow the same convention
[22:01] <ali1234> ok
[22:02] <andrzejr> bbl
[22:09] <ali1234> andrzejr: if you can add the config setting for single row mode, i'll hammer the calculations until they work in both modes and for any icons/panel size, but i don't know how to do the config panel change
[22:19] <ali1234> actually it could just select mode based on the panel height
[22:19] <ali1234> it already kind of does that
[22:20] <ali1234> hmm
[22:25] <ali1234> ok i'll take another look at this tomorrow
[22:26] <andrzejr> I've pushed the change (a new option)
[22:28] <ali1234> oh, one other totally unrelated thing while i remember. can we fudge the class names so that unity styles are picked up by the indicators?
[22:31] <andrzejr> what should be the class name?
[22:33] <ali1234> i'm not sure but this is what the css looks like: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/light-themes/saucy/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/unity.css#L18
[22:34] <ali1234> i suspect actually we can't due to how the styles are nested
[22:34] <ali1234> and because menubar is already a class and not the one we're using
[22:42] <andrzejr> I wonder if some of these misalignments are coming from gtk2/gtk3 differences in themes
[22:42] <andrzejr> btw, I have an ugly workaround for padding error in gtk3 gtkbutton
[22:43] <andrzejr> #6890030
[22:43] <ali1234> no, i;m fairly sure it's not the themes
[22:43] <ali1234> orion doesn't apply anything special to any buttons, so they should all be the same
[22:44] <ali1234> also i inspected with gtkparasite
[22:54] <andrzejr> ali1234, looks like it is enough to pass y & height through to a child widget
[22:55] <andrzejr> that fixes label alignment
[22:55] <ali1234> it does?
[22:55] <ali1234> even when the panel is 16px?
[22:58] <andrzejr> yes
[23:02] <ali1234> ok. found a bug btw - the new config option is gint instead of gboolean
[23:07] <ali1234> hmm
[23:08] <ali1234> so did there used to be an nrows option?
[23:21] <ali1234> hmmmm... almost working. i'll fix this tomorrow
[23:57] <andrzejr> ali1234, pushed some layout fixes


[05:25] <micahg> ochosi: will look at scrollback
[06:14] <ochosi> micahg: hey, so a quick summary of the proposed changes for gmb in debian/ubuntu:
[06:14] <ochosi> 1) remove mpg321/ogg123/flac123 from depends
[06:14] <ochosi> 2) move libgstreamer-perl from recommends to depends
[06:14] <ochosi> 3) add libintl-perl to recommends (or depends)
[06:14] <ochosi> (mpg321 recommands libaudio-scrobbler-perl which depends on  libwww-perl which depends on lots of perl libraries that are  not used by gmb)
[06:15] <ochosi> micahg: ^
[06:18] <micahg> all sounds fine
[06:19] <ochosi> micahg: ok cool, would you forward that?
[06:19] <micahg> forward where?
[06:20] <ochosi> to the debian maintainer
[06:20] <ochosi> or wait, are you the debian maintainer? :)
[06:22] <micahg> alessio's been making the changes as of late and I still don't have a key in alioth
[06:22] <ochosi> ok, are you in touch with him or shall i try to get a hold of him?
[06:25] <micahg> you can probably reach him in #debian-multimedia on oftc
[06:26] <ochosi> ok, thanks, i'll try that
[06:27] <ochosi> micahg: his nick is simply alessio?
[06:27] <micahg> yeah
[06:27] <ochosi> ok, thanks, i'll try to hang in there :)
[06:28] <ochosi> are you very busy atm? i have a xubuntu packaging question
[06:42]  * micahg isn't feeling well and about to go to bed
[06:42] <ochosi> oh, in that case it can wait
[06:42] <ochosi> get well again soon!
[09:16] <astraljava> ochosi: The changes for gmb are done.
[09:16] <ochosi> astraljava: you mean in debian?
[09:16] <astraljava> Yup.
[09:17] <ochosi> alessio was kind enough to send me an email about it :)
[09:17] <astraljava> He rawks.
[09:17] <ochosi> but thanks :)
[09:17] <ochosi> astraljava: do you feel like coding a bit?
[09:18] <astraljava> Later this evening, sure. I'm on support duty at work, so can't do it until I get spare time.
[09:19] <ochosi> sure, no hurry
[09:19] <astraljava> What did you have in mind?
[09:19] <ochosi> i was just generally thinking about the video-player for xubuntu roadmap item again...
[09:19] <astraljava> Ok.
[09:19] <ochosi> and i'm afraid that audience will not be a perfect choice due to the clutter-dependency
[09:19] <ochosi> it's not very smooth on all computers
[09:19] <ochosi> and i'm not sure we really want that
[09:20] <ochosi> so there are several courses of action
[09:20] <astraljava> Right, I have no experience but I'll take your word on it.
[09:20] <ochosi> well, even with my nvidia card i didn't have a 100% smooth experience
[09:20] <ochosi> so i don't even wanna think about people without dedicated graphics
[09:21] <astraljava> Sounds sub-optimal.
[09:21] <ochosi> one course of action is to improve parole
[09:21] <ochosi> it's not _that_ bad, but it desperately needs an interface-refresh
[09:21] <ochosi> or we can look for alternatives
[09:21] <ochosi> no clue whether this would be interesting for u-studio guys as well
[09:22] <astraljava> Totem has been there, I believe, but we could talk. I just use vlc.
[09:22] <ochosi> vlc is not an option due to qt
[09:23] <astraljava> I know, and will not try to get it as a default app.
[09:23] <ochosi> and totem, well, i haven't looked at the dependencies yet
[09:23] <astraljava> But it's something I always install, along with chrome, vim and t-bird. :)
[09:24] <ochosi> mhm
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, vlc is maybe the best media player out there
[09:24] <astraljava> I'm afraid totem is not very fitting for us.
[09:24] <astraljava> But yeah, who knows.
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, personally i'd rather not use totem...
[09:26] <ochosi> problem with refreshing parole is that its code uses an ancient version of glade
[09:26] <ochosi> i'm not proficient in these things, but it might even be that a rewrite is better :/
[09:27] <astraljava> Probably. I've used glade a small eternity ago. :)
[09:28] <ochosi> so anyway, i don't know what would be more work. what i somehow would prefer would be a tiny, yet functional player in gtk3/vala
[09:28] <ochosi> or c
[09:29] <astraljava> Well I wouldn't write another player myself, but I'm willing to enhance an existing one that we'd choose to promote.
[09:30] <astraljava> There's already way too much "from scratch" mentality in the linux community. :)
[09:30] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[09:30] <ochosi> i mean porting parole would be just as good :)
[09:30] <Unit193> And a lot of forking...
[09:31] <ochosi> i already made several mockups for how i would simplify its UI
[09:31] <laite> how do you feel about some mplayer-interfaces? e.g. gnome-mplayer
[09:32] <astraljava> ochosi: I could go with that, sounds good if you have existing plans already.
[09:32] <ochosi> astraljava: yes, it's not that i dislike parole, i actually use it every now and then.
[09:32] <ochosi> laite: haven't really used them yet
[09:34] <ochosi> laite: i'm wondering though why it _depends_ on ligpod
[09:35] <laite> personally I use mainly smplayer, due to it's ability to search subtitles (with good success rate) straight from program
[09:35] <laite> it's qt-based
[09:36] <Unit193> qt was part of the reason to cut out VLC.
[09:36] <knome> Qt is not happening, really
[09:51] <ochosi> astraljava: this is/was the plan: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
[09:51] <ochosi> astraljava: there were also actual mockups of parole's UI, not just the textual description
[09:53] <knome> "were"?
[09:53] <ochosi> well, they're not in the xfce wiki for some reason, although i thought they were there
[09:53] <knome> :|
[09:53] <ochosi> so maybe they got removed or something
[09:53] <ochosi> i dunno
[09:53] <ochosi> i should still have them at home
[09:53] <ochosi> and i still know what i had in mind, so no biggy
[09:53] <knome> heh
[09:57] <laite> is there no option for having subtitles in parole?
[09:58] <laite> doesn't matter for me so much, but might be an issue to some
[09:59] <ochosi> yeah, it's not 100% feature-complete
[10:03] <ochosi> bbl
[10:41] <astraljava> ochosi: Thanks, I'll ask for the mock-ups when I get to actual implementation phase.
[11:08] <bluesabre-laptop> astraljava:  I look forward to testing that!  Especially if you get subtitle support working'
[11:47] <ochosi> astraljava: cool, i'll take a quick look whether i can find the mockup/s
[11:51] <ochosi> astraljava: ok, uploaded one of the mockups to the xfce design wiki page: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
[11:53] <laite> that looks really nice =)
[11:53] <ochosi> thanks
[11:54] <ochosi> it's just a cleanup, nothing special ;)
[16:08] <knome> the xubuntu blueprints are being handled by skaet right now
[16:08] <knome> mr_pouit, ^
[16:40] <mr_pouit> yep, my mailbox agrees :P
[16:40] <mr_pouit> thanks ;-)
[16:40] <knome> np
[19:01]  * knome just added a lot of work items for the blueprints, please add more if you think something obvious is missing (if you are unsure of the assignee, set a team, like xubuntu-art, as the assignee, or if you are still unsure, set xubuntu-team)
[19:04] <knome> madnick, what's the status of the lightdm settings gui?
[19:10] <madnick> knome: hm, the gui exists, some functionality exists, but iirc its rather incomplete in terms of config getting
[19:10] <knome> madnick, do you think it's realistic to get that done for q?
[19:10] <knome> madnick, i mean, should i just repostpone, or should we try?
[19:10] <madnick> its probably the easiest thing to do (if they have not changed it entirely)
[19:10] <madnick> of all the things
[19:11] <knome> madnick, also, look at the "new plymouth/lightdm theme" -blueprints
[19:11] <knome> and add any items you see fit
[19:11] <knome> or that you need from others
[19:11] <knome> okay, then let's keep the work items for now
[19:11] <madnick> will do
[19:11] <knome> thanks
[19:11] <madnick> who will provide art btw?
[19:11] <madnick> ochosi?
[19:11] <knome> i added xubuntu-art for that
[19:11] <knome> so ochosi or me probably
[19:11] <madnick> okay
[19:12] <knome> you can use the xubuntu-art team for artwork stuff where you are unsure
[19:13] <madnick> You (i think) was talking about just modifying the ubuntu greeter?
[19:13] <madnick> unity greeter*
[19:13] <knome> umm, i was talking about maintaining that in addition ;]
[19:14] <madnick> hehe
[19:14] <knome> i think it was ochosi if you have talked about just modifying that
[19:14] <madnick> ah okay
[19:14] <knome> but that's not the most important thing
[19:14] <knome> we can sort that out later
[19:14] <knome> we need to get the work items in shape for thursday
[19:14] <knome> so we are able to track progess more meaningfully
[19:14] <knome> plus, that's the feature definition freeze day
[19:14] <knome> ;)
[19:15] <knome> i don't think we will be completely done, but it's good to at least try
[19:15] <knome> (that's why i'm on the blueprints/work items now!)
[19:16] <madnick> you know the greeter theme for 8.04?
[19:16] <madnick> I sorta like the simplicity of that
[19:17] <knome> http://www.screenshots-archive.com/files/images/02_logon_screen_0.png that?
[19:17] <knome> or are you maybe referring to http://www.generation-linux.fr/public/avr09/gdm_xubuntu.png ?
[19:17] <knome> i'd love something like the latter (again) !
[19:18] <knome> [knome] take more nature-photograps: TODO
[19:18] <knome> ;)
[19:18] <madnick> i was talking about the first one, but the second one is even better in simplicity (if one centers that menu)
[19:18] <knome> i'm running out
[19:18] <madnick> top menu
[19:19] <knome> i don't think anything should be necessarily centered
[19:19] <knome> but we can look at that :)
[19:19] <madnick> hehe
[19:20] <madnick> i have tons of pictures i took when i was flying helicopter up in the mountains up north
[19:21] <madnick> but they are poor quality, good res tho, if one manipulated them, it might look good
[19:21] <madnick> think 12mp camera
[19:33] <knome> madnick, bad quality doesn't matter really
[19:33] <knome> madnick, i can give you an example later today
[19:33] <knome> bbl
[19:37] <sadin> knome Fedora17 just pushed out!
[19:37] <sadin> im upgrading then getting back to work on the icons for you :D
[19:58] <knome> sadin, congrats
[20:50] <knome> micahg, ?