[16:00] <ddstreet> o/
[16:02] <ddstreet> mapreri teward around for the mtg?
[16:03] <teward> o/
[16:03] <mapreri> hello here
[16:04] <ddstreet> awesome let's start!
[16:04] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backporters Team
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:04:55 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:05] <ddstreet> ok let's run thru the previous action items quickly
[16:05] <ddstreet> #topic previous action items
[16:05] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet reply to previous ML requests and open backport request bugs indicating change in process (carried over)
[16:06] <ddstreet> carrying this over (and either of you feel free to handle it as well of course)
[16:06] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet reply to previous ML requests and open backport request bugs indicating change in process (carried over)
[16:06] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet reply to previous ML requests and open backport request bugs indicating change in process (carried over)
[16:06] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update wiki docs with new process (carrired over)
[16:06] <ddstreet> done
[16:06] <ddstreet> and mapreri has the WIP page
[16:06] <ddstreet> (let's discuss that after the previous action items)
[16:06] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet try to edit help.u.c page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[16:07] <ddstreet> done, and i think we can all edit this page as we see fit, or at least i am able to for sure
[16:07] <ddstreet> #suptopic mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page
[16:07] <ddstreet> carry over i assume?
[16:08] <ddstreet> #action mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:08] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over)
[16:08] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward update tooling, requestbackport (carried over)
[16:08] <mapreri> oh yes, actually I forgot /o\
[16:08] <teward> carry over
[16:09] <ddstreet> #subtopic teward review backportpackage tool (carried over)
[16:09] <ddstreet> carry both right?
[16:09] <teward> correct
[16:09] <ddstreet> #action teward update tooling, requestbackport (carried over)
[16:09] <meetingology> ACTION: teward update tooling, requestbackport (carried over)
[16:09] <teward> been a tad busy with stuff still, FT job kinda took all my time >.>
[16:09] <ddstreet> #action teward review backportpackage tool (carried over)
[16:09] <meetingology> ACTION: teward review backportpackage tool (carried over)
[16:09] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:09] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:09] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over)
[16:10] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:10] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:10] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over)
[16:10] <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) create list of packages excluded from backporting (carried over)
[16:10] <ddstreet> i think this one's done by mapreri
[16:10] <ddstreet> at least the initial list
[16:11] <mapreri> I think we can consider that done
[16:11] <mapreri> it should just grow over time as cases come by
[16:11] <ddstreet> yep
[16:11] <ddstreet> ok that's all the action items
[16:11] <ddstreet> let's move to the WIP wiki page
[16:11] <ddstreet> #topic wiki page
[16:11] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/WIP
[16:12] <ddstreet> mapreri i just reviewed it and responded to your ML email, +1 on everything with a couple minor comments
[16:12] <mapreri> I'm applying your suggestions right now actually
[16:13] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2021-October/021819.html
[16:13] <ddstreet> for reference to those reading along
[16:13] <ddstreet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2021-November/021820.html
[16:14] <ddstreet> teward any feedback on the wiki page changes?
[16:14] <mapreri> there, all applied
[16:14] <ddstreet> great, and also thanks for opening the RT to get the wiki page history log working :)
[16:15] <mapreri> if you think it's cool enough I can moved that WIP thing over to the main page too
[16:16] <teward> no objection other than what changes have been made, though i'm missing an email so let me check the archive
[16:16] <teward> yep no other feedback or complaints you hit all mine ddstreet
[16:16] <teward> looks fine otherwise
[16:18] <teward> back in like 2 seconds have to answer the door for LUNCH
[16:18] <mapreri> then I suppose we can go ahead
[16:18] <mapreri> should we start actually handling packages? :3
[16:18] <ddstreet> mapreri one last thing, can you replace the TBD in the 'Reason for Backport' section with a link down the the 'special cases' section, or just replace it with 'as listed below'
[16:19] <mapreri> oh good point
[16:19] <mapreri> sure
[16:19] <ddstreet> or, maybe just remove that line entirely; it's kind of redundant now
[16:19] <ddstreet> either way
[16:19] <teward> mapreri: i think anything pending in the existing 'requests' sections needs to be just denied (the old way) and resubmitted if someone wants to get a backport still but using the new process
[16:19] <teward> as for handling packages, anything currently in the queue without active requests per the process is also not prepared
[16:20] <teward> my 2 cents in regards to "should we start actually handling packages"
[16:20] <mapreri> sure
[16:20] <mapreri> but we said to reject them once we actually have a page to point them to
[16:20] <teward> right but that goes hand in hand ;)
[16:21] <mapreri> so I think we can move WIP to the main page, then reject everything, then I can upload stuff (devscripts and u-d-t!), you two review them, and then let's open the gates for all by a mail to ubuntu-devel@ or such?
[16:21] <mapreri> should we do ubuntu-devel-announce@? :O  in ubuntu that's pretty much unused besides when the cycles starts/freezes…
[16:21] <teward> we should at least email ubuntu-devel i think
[16:22] <teward> but -announce i don't think is needed for it
[16:22] <ddstreet> yeah i think just stick to ubuntu-devel, the -announce is moderated and reserved for select announcements anyway i think
[16:23] <mapreri> I moved the WIP text to the main page
[16:23] <ddstreet> i'm +1 on moving WIP to the main page and starting to handle packages! :)
[16:23] <ddstreet> \o/ hurray :)
[16:23] <mapreri> your +1 is already too late :P
[16:23] <ddstreet> lol
[16:23] <ddstreet> retroactive +1
[16:24] <ddstreet> so i guess we're fully "running" now right?
[16:24] <mapreri> I guess
[16:24] <ddstreet> wiki page is up to date, i don't think anythign else is needed on the community page right? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[16:25] <mapreri> I'll have to read that page again at a different time
[16:25] <ddstreet> ack, and you should be able to edit it, if needed
[16:25] <mapreri> btw, I'll upload udt/focal-bpo later today, and you can mess with the queue and see if/how that works?
[16:26] <ddstreet> yep i have a bit of time today, so i can process it once you upload
[16:26] <mapreri> alright
[16:26] <mapreri> after the mtg
[16:27] <ddstreet> mapreri also re: the bug i opened lp:1947192 i'm thinking now we should just close that as wontfix, yeah?
[16:27] <ddstreet> i shouldn't have opened it in the first place
[16:27] <mapreri> I think you need to assign a few actions (me uploading this, you reviewing the queue, somebody writing the -devel mail, ...)
[16:27] <mapreri> I'll try to close that in the bpo upload, let's discover if that works?
[16:28] <mapreri> (i don't think it will, but let's try)
[16:28] <ddstreet> #action mapreri upload u-d-t to focal
[16:28] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri upload u-d-t to focal
[16:28] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet review u-d-t upload to focal
[16:28] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet review u-d-t upload to focal
[16:29] <ddstreet> who wants to write the email to -devel?
[16:29]  * mapreri looks grumpily at the ppc64el autopkgtest queue, stopping u-d-t 0.186
[16:29] <ddstreet> lol, yeah i heard there were some problems there (i've been out on vacation for a week, just back today)
[16:29] <mapreri> I'll happily give that up.  in the next ~10 days I'll be busy with family stuff, so not really up for more tasks atm
[16:29] <teward> won't be me, i'm moving mt email between environments at the moment, so limited ability to email.
[16:30] <teward> (so I can't send the email at the moment)
[16:30] <ddstreet> ack no prob i can take it
[16:30] <mapreri> i can review your draft if you want to
[16:30] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports
[16:30] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports
[16:30] <ddstreet> yep lemme action that too
[16:30] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet send draft email to mapreri before ubuntu-devel list
[16:30] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet send draft email to mapreri before ubuntu-devel list
[16:31] <ddstreet> ok i think that's everything right?
[16:31] <mapreri> for this topic yes at least
[16:31] <ddstreet> and i already have the actions for respoinding to open bugs and ML emails
[16:31] <mapreri> and I think also for the other membership thing as well since that's waiting on me to draft the KB page I guess
[16:32] <ddstreet> yeah i think we got that in the earlier actions
[16:32] <ddstreet> #topic all other business
[16:32] <ddstreet> did i miss anything? or any other topics?
[16:33] <mapreri> somebody pls get `DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo` to DTRT pls :puppy_eyes:
[16:34] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned)  get `DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo` to DTRT pls
[16:34] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned)  get `DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo` to DTRT pls
[16:34] <ddstreet> lol
[16:34] <mapreri> :*
[16:35] <ddstreet> should i schedule another mtg in 2 weeks? just in case?
[16:35] <ddstreet> it would be Nov 17
[16:35] <mapreri> by then I'll have pretty much just come back from messy times, but I think we should regardless, at least to check in and keep up momentum
[16:36] <ddstreet> yep sounds good, it has been useful to have these mtgs at least as a target date for getting stuff done, in addition to the actual meeting content
[16:36] <mapreri> mh dh 13 is not available in focal-bpo :(
[16:36] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet schedule following meeting for Nov 17
[16:36] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet schedule following meeting for Nov 17
[16:37] <ddstreet> yeah i wonder if debhelper might be the first thing we need to backport
[16:37] <mapreri> I wanted to go with something less critical first
[16:37] <ddstreet> otherwise we'll probably have to adjust the dh version for backported packages
[16:37] <mapreri> I'll just s/13/12/ in this case, it doesn't matter
[16:37] <ddstreet> yep
[16:38] <mapreri> note how somebody randomly did backport debhelper 12 to focal-bpo some time ago :>
[16:40] <ddstreet> mapreri what method do you use to check what's in the -backports pocket for releases? like, for a release you're not running
[16:41] <mapreri> (oh, actually that was bionic not focal, sorry)
[16:41] <ddstreet> ah ok
[16:41] <mapreri> i was going by memory
[16:41] <ddstreet> i was wondering why rmadison didn't show it
[16:42] <ddstreet> ok i think we're all wrapped up then
[16:42] <mapreri> anyhow, I've got plenty of chroots and run apt policy there; or look at the launchpd ui.  for whatever reason i never got my fingers into typing rmadison :!
[16:42] <mapreri> E: ubuntu-dev-tools changes: backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number 0.185~bpo20.04.1
[16:42] <mapreri> another action ↑ :P
[16:42] <mapreri> fix lintian
[16:43] <mapreri> I'm sure lechner would do that right away once told
[16:43] <mapreri> I: ubuntu-dev-tools changes: backports-changes-missing
[16:43] <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:43] <meetingology> ACTION: (unassigned) fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix
[16:43] <mapreri> do we care about this in ubuntu?
[16:43] <mapreri> is about using -v in dpkg-genchanges to include more than one entry in the Changes: field of the .changes file
[16:44] <mapreri> used to be mandatory for debian backports, but it's not mandatory anymore (though I still take care of it)
[16:44] <ddstreet> i tend to think probably not, right?
[16:45] <ddstreet> it could be a really long list, or in some cases might not even be possible e.g. with a new major version
[16:45] <mapreri> I also seem to remember launchpad is clever about that, at least it closes all bugs even if the .changes file doesn't mention them all, somehow.
[16:45] <mapreri> why wouldn't be possible?
[16:45] <mapreri> I can assure you that it's very much possible to do :>
[16:46] <ddstreet> it would just include the entire changelog then, right?
[16:46] <mapreri> there is also -v0 to include all of the changelog in the .changes (example is when backporting a package that wasn't present in the target distribution
[16:46] <mapreri> )
[16:46] <mapreri> but yes, I don't think we care here
[16:46] <ddstreet> i'm fine either way; it seems like it probably would just introduce noise instead of helping
[16:47] <mapreri> I'm sure it would make many new contributors not used to low-level tooling (dpkg-genchanges in this case) scratch their heads :D
[16:47] <ddstreet> yeah i know there are some people who have ACL to upload who either don't know about needing to use -v or just forget about it
[16:48] <ddstreet> ok we're coming up to the end, any final items before we wrap up?
[16:49] <mapreri> not from me
[16:49] <mapreri> teward: ?
[16:49]  * mapreri also just dput, let's see
[16:49] <teward> nope
[16:49] <teward> none
[16:50] <mapreri> Rejected:
[16:50] <mapreri> Mismatch in binaryfulness. (arch) False != (files) True
[16:50] <mapreri> dammit, I keep forgetting this lp thing :\
[16:50] <ddstreet> hmm i've not hit that before
[16:51] <mapreri> you likely don't build all of your uploads locally before uploading the resulting thing
[16:52] <ddstreet> i usually build the binaries in a separate container, while i build my source to upload on my main system
[16:52] <mapreri> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1699763
[16:53] <mapreri> also when uploading to ubuntu I need to be careful to upload the .changes generated in right env, else it won't have the Launchpad-Bug-Fixed field, etc etc.
[16:53] <mapreri> ddstreet: anyway, it's in the queue now :)
[16:53] <mapreri> guess this is all for today!
[16:53] <ddstreet> awesome! i'll review asap :)
[16:54] <ddstreet> thanks all!
[16:54] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[16:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 16:54:05 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-11-03-16.04.moin.txt
[16:54] <ddstreet> o/
[16:54] <mapreri> 	diff from 0.176 (in Debian) to 0.185~bpo20.04.1 (56.6 KiB)
[16:54] <mapreri> ddstreet: ↑ this might be something we might want to improve: it's likely useless to have that diff
[16:54] <mapreri> i mean, having lp know to use the best base version to do that diff
[16:54] <mapreri> (that's in the queue viewer)
[16:55] <ddstreet> yeah, though i think that's a well-established problem already; it doesn't diff from the -security pocket either, so i think the diff is frequently unhelpful