   I see you crawled into the darn corner, sweeping your eyes back and forth wondering if  your wife is gonna smack the crap out of you
[02:51] <dmcglone> serously, she usually goes to be around 9pm
[02:52] <dmcglone> she's always done that
[02:52] <BiosElement> Hmm
[02:52] <BiosElement> Found a bug with modernizer it seems
[02:52] <BiosElement> It doesn't think Chromium has html5 support for video/audio tags
[02:52] <dmcglone> I usually go to sleep between 11pm and 2 am
[02:53] <dmcglone> thats weird
[02:53] <BiosElement> Yeh...
[02:53] <BiosElement> Not sure why
[02:53] <BiosElement> I 'know' it really does support it since I just double checked
[02:54] <dmcglone> that might explain why I was having a problem loading images in Safari using HTML5
[02:55] <BiosElement> I'm gonna check with gchrome legit and see
[02:55] <dmcglone> apparently only .jpg's would work
[02:55] <dmcglone> brb
[02:55] <BiosElement> Aight
[02:55] <BiosElement> And yep, html5 vid works with chrome too, lets see if its detected...
[02:56] <BiosElement> Yep, it's detected
[02:56] <dmcglone> My cursor is not showing in the typing area for some reason
[02:56] <BiosElement> So it's a chromium only bug
[02:56] <dmcglone> hang on
[02:56] <dmcglone> that didn't work
[02:57] <dmcglone> there that worked
[02:57] <dmcglone> weird
[02:57] <BiosElement> haha
[02:58] <dmcglone> I must have hit a button combo on accident
[02:59] <BiosElement> Blah that always sucks
[03:00] <dmcglone> mythbusters is on. :-)
[03:00] <dmcglone> it's a re-run
[03:03] <BiosElement> Lame
[03:05] <dmcglone> Oh jeez I'm watching a cop show on Tru tv and the cop ask the drunk guy do you have any drugs on you and the drunk guys says "no, they cause irreversible brain dammage" haha
[03:06] <BiosElement> You mean the existing brain damage you have is reversable? >.>
[03:06] <dmcglone> I guess alcohol is good for the brain now
[03:06] <dmcglone> LOL
[03:08] <dmcglone> the show is called "inside american jail"
[03:15] <dmcglone> Well I'm gonna lay down and relax. I'll talk to you tomorrow
[03:19] <canthus13> blargh.
[04:00]  * Unit193 is back!
[04:07] <BiosElement> Good for you ;P
[04:09] <Unit193> Hello Cheri703
[04:09] <Cheri703> hola
[04:09] <Cheri703> how goes it?
[04:09] <Unit193> Well...coming home is never the best part
[04:10] <Unit193> But it was great!
[04:10] <Cheri703> yeah?
[04:11] <Unit193> You don't think so? How is the Boss going?
[04:11] <Cheri703> >.<
[04:11]  * Cheri703 is trying to relax and not think about that until ready to begin composing the email that will constitute 2 weeks notice :/
[04:12] <Unit193> Oops....
[04:12] <Unit193> Think little birdys
[04:12] <Cheri703> np
[04:13] <Unit193> Gave my cousin one of the Ubuntu cards
[04:14] <Cheri703> yeah? awesome
[04:14] <Unit193> But he lives in Indiana... he may use it for a USB Macbuntu
[04:14] <Cheri703> still good
[04:34] <BiosElement> I love the Infinite monkey theorem...
[04:34] <BiosElement> >.>
[04:34] <Cheri703> ?
[04:34] <BiosElement> The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.
[04:34] <canthus13> If an infinite number of monkeys were given an infinite number of computers, they would eventually write windows.
[04:34] <Cheri703> ah
[04:35] <canthus13> Mine's more up to date. :)
[04:35] <BiosElement> Yes but mine shows the monkey as intelligent
[04:35] <BiosElement> ;P
[04:35] <canthus13> heh
[04:35] <BiosElement> No amount of infinite monkeys would be stupid enough to write windows
[04:35] <canthus13> Point taken.
[04:37] <BiosElement> LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:37] <BiosElement> THEY DID IT
[04:37] <canthus13> Eh?  I can't find my phone
[05:10] <BiosElement> paultag: Just don't be like me and say to someone on the phone "Damn it, where'd my cell go?"
[14:34] <deejoe> I've done that with my glasses
[14:34] <deejoe> had them propped up on my forehead
[14:34] <deejoe> or, with keys--in hand
[14:35] <deejoe> there's a lesson in Zen there somewhere, about getting so invested in looking that you can't tell what you've got
[15:17] <_bbb_> also in sheryl crow lyrics
[17:47] <canthus13> Uh. Wow.  FreeNX rocks.
[17:48] <Unit19P> Better then NoMachine?
[17:49] <canthus13> Same thing.
[17:49] <Unit19P> Mostly....
[17:51] <Cheri703> I don't know what either of those are...
[17:53] <canthus13> Cheri703: Remote desktop software.  Much  more responsive than VNC.
[17:54] <Cheri703> ah, gotcha
[17:54] <canthus13> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX#Installing%20the%20FreeNX%20server%20on%20Ubuntu%20Karmic%20%289.10%29%20%28Also%20works%20on%20Lucid%29.
[17:54] <canthus13> err.
[17:54] <canthus13> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX#Installing%20the%20FreeNX%20server%20on%20Ubuntu%20Karmic%20%289.10%29%20%28Also%20works%20on%20Lucid%29
[17:54] <canthus13> Dunno how that period got on the end of the first link.
[17:54] <Cheri703> both worked in xchat
[17:57] <canthus13> Cool.
[18:15] <Unit193> I don't think I'm going to try that, would have to install 83 packages
[18:16] <canthus13> Wow.
[18:24] <Unit193> It needs gnome-menus and gnome-panel??
[19:01] <canthus13> Yeah.  You can select KDE from the client, though.
[19:01] <canthus13> There's probably a way to install without gnome, but I dunno.. I use gnome.
[19:06] <Unit193> I not using KDE or gnome (sidenote: do you know of a guide for switching from Win & OpenSource soft to Linux & OpenSource soft?)
[19:17] <canthus13> Not offhand.. I'm sure there are some out there.
[19:38] <Cheri703> Unit193: switching how?
[20:23] <_bbb_> reminds me of the apple switch campaign
[20:23] <_bbb_> and  that one stoner chick
[20:24] <deejoe> ellen feiss
[20:28] <_bbb_> http://crow202.org/2009/panther-upgrade.jpg
[20:31] <deejoe> beep beep beep
[20:31] <deejoe> tell us all the truth, now, that's what your nick stands for, right?
[20:48] <paultag> duh
[20:48] <paultag> heyya _bbb_, deejoe
[20:49] <deejoe> hi paultag
[20:49] <paultag> s'new?
[20:49] <deejoe> you about wrapped up for the semester?
[20:49] <paultag> deejoe: yessir! I
[20:49] <deejoe> I'm babysitting a hardy->lucid
[20:49] <paultag> I'm just doing some fun reading right now
[20:49] <deejoe> congratulations!
[20:49] <paultag> working on Boole's works
[20:49] <deejoe> haha
[20:49] <deejoe> figures
[20:49] <paultag> deejoe: Oh man, sorry to hear that :/
[20:49] <paultag> deejoe: How's the update going?
[20:49] <deejoe> tons of errors on first pass with do-release-upgrade
[20:50] <paultag> horny hardon -> lucid :)
[20:50] <paultag> deejoe: Oh no
[20:50] <deejoe> so, I figured, what the heck, I'll try it again!
[20:50] <paultag> deejoe: did it get resolved?
[20:50] <deejoe> it seems to be running along more smoothly
[20:50] <paultag> :D
[20:50] <deejoe> script ftw
[20:50] <deejoe> as in the typescript recording command from mumble-utils
[20:50] <paultag> deejoe: are you running a single upgrade from dist to dist or are you trying a direct to lucid?
[20:51] <deejoe> LTS to LTS
[20:51] <paultag> good move
[20:51] <deejoe> yeah
[20:51] <paultag> the upgrade path can be flaky
[20:51] <deejoe> I've got a few machine here and there that were caught in a 6 month release along the way
[20:51] <deejoe> because I needed something out of them
[20:51] <deejoe> so, my netbook for instance I recently took from jaunty to karmic
[20:51] <deejoe> I'm a bit afraid of taking that to lucid
[20:52] <paultag> deejoe: the red EEE?
[20:52] <deejoe> that's the one!
[20:52] <deejoe> well, it's an acer
[20:52] <paultag> deejoe: snazzy :)
[20:52] <paultag> Oh, acer
[20:52] <paultag> right, yes :)
[20:52] <deejoe> walmart special
[20:52] <deejoe> only the best for this hillbilly
[20:52] <deejoe> oops
[20:52] <deejoe> <.<
[20:52] <deejoe> >.>
[20:52] <deejoe> maybe I shouldn't have said it
[20:53] <BiosElement> I vote more apps follow vlc's lead and have awesome x-mis logo's >.>
[20:54]  * deejoe is always getting rhythmbox and rockbox confused
[20:56] <canthus13> deejoe: ...how?
[20:57] <canthus13> one goes on your computer, the other on your MP3 player. :)
[21:03] <deejoe> I don't really use either yet, so that's how
[21:04]  * deejoe waves his cane at the lawn and grumbles
[21:04] <deejoe> they both are named mumblebox and have something to do with music
[21:43] <BiosElement> Oh look, yet another reason I don't donate to the FSF... http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/mark-zuckerberg-is-time-magazines-person-of-the-year-wheres-the-dislike-button
[21:44] <paultag> Man, my sister and mom just started throwing up
[21:44] <paultag> there goes my night
[21:44] <BiosElement> ugh
[21:45] <deejoe> paultag: hydrate, hydrate, hydrate
[21:45] <paultag> deejoe: aye. Already got them both ginger ale and water
[21:45] <paultag> not combined
[21:45] <deejoe> although that wouldn't be that awful
[21:45] <deejoe> but yeah
[21:46] <paultag> Man oh man. There goes Boole :(
[21:47] <paultag> I was just blogging my notes on Chapter II, they're pretty great
[21:47] <_bbb_> yo paultag
[21:47] <paultag> heyya _bbb_
[21:47] <_bbb_> et al
[21:48] <_bbb_> heading up to the grog later
[21:48] <paultag> Oh sick!
[21:48] <_bbb_> no show just drinking
[21:48] <paultag> _bbb_: who are you seeing?
[21:48] <paultag> Ahhh
[21:48] <_bbb_> birthday beers for my buddy
[21:49] <paultag> _bbb_: Damn, if I was in town, I'd come meet up
[21:49] <_bbb_> possibly some karaoke
[21:49] <_bbb_> depending on how drunk i get
[21:50] <_bbb_> definetly gonna be up there on thurs night
[21:51] <_bbb_> kind of a reunion show for another friends' band
[21:51] <dmcglone> Hi everyone
[21:51] <_bbb_> then my other buddy's band is playing on xmas
[21:51] <_bbb_> wont be making that one
[21:51] <dmcglone> Cheri703: you here?
[21:51] <_bbb_> howdy dmcglone
[21:52] <dmcglone> Hi _bbb_
[21:52]  * _bbb_ disables popups from update-notifier
[21:52]  * _bbb_ likes this
[21:52] <dmcglone> what's the discussion here?
[21:53] <_bbb_> coffee talk
[21:53] <dmcglone> Ah ok
[21:53] <_bbb_> rhode island is neither a road nor and island.. discuss
[21:53] <dmcglone> good one
[21:53] <dmcglone> there's nothing to discuss there
[21:54] <_bbb_> just make something up
[21:54] <dmcglone> I can do that
[21:55] <dmcglone> HP is the best computer manufacturer there is
[21:55] <dmcglone> ;-)
[21:56] <dmcglone> Fire ants do not actually spit fire.
[21:56] <deejoe> lies
[21:56] <dmcglone> it's a conspiracy
[21:59] <dmcglone> I'm gonna go play Wii for a bit
[21:59] <deejoe> sounds like a good plan
[22:09] <Cheri703> dmcglone: yup
[22:13] <canthus13> _bbb_: it's a rhode.
[22:42] <BiosElement> The Ninth Circuit agrees with a previous ruling that World of Warcraft players do not own the game, but rules that breaking the licensing agreement does not lead to copyright infringement when it comes to third-party programs.
[22:42] <BiosElement> ^So it's good and bad
[22:42] <BiosElement> +1 to ars http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/12/court-you-do-not-own-that-copy-of-wow-you-bought.ars


[00:03] <lifeless> yes
[01:25] <Noldorin> lifeless, fair enough. will have a look, thanks
[01:29] <Noldorin> hey jelmer
[01:30] <Noldorin> what's up with this? http://people.samba.org/bzr/jelmer/bzr-remove-revisions/trunk/
[13:46] <Noldorin> bazaar is sort of dying, isn't it?
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Noldorin, what?
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Bazaar is still widely used by Ubuntu and other FOSS projects
[14:27] <Noldorin> smartboyhw, evidence is that it's been on the decline for a couple of years now, and development is slowing down, especially w.r.t. plugins, and people are gradually abandoning bzr everywhere
[14:27] <Noldorin> it's sad, but it seems to be the case
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Noldorin, I like Bazaar myself (it's simplier to use), but I think Canonical's efforts has switched to other aspects, so it makes sense
[14:28] <Noldorin> maybe yeah
[14:29] <Noldorin> smartboyhw, the number of canonical devs working on it has decreased dramatically it seems
[14:29] <Noldorin> and outside contributions are virtually nil now
[14:31] <smartboyhw> Noldorin, yeah
[14:31] <Noldorin> smartboyhw, personally i'm with you. bazaar's conceptua/semantic model of version control makes a lot more sense than, say, git's
[14:31] <Noldorin> but there are other tradeoffs to be make
[14:32] <Noldorin> smartboyhw, a bzr-like wrapper over git might be a nice way forward actually. even some bzr devs have suggested that in the past, i noticed, on a mailing list
[14:33] <smartboyhw> Noldorin, OK
[14:35] <fullermd> It's not dying, it's pining for the fjords.
[14:35] <Noldorin> heh
[14:36] <Noldorin> fullermd, who knew bzr was norwegian?
[14:40] <fullermd> Remarkable version control system, ain't it?  Lovely UI.
[14:51] <Noldorin> :P
[14:51] <Noldorin> speak sense, you!
[15:14] <jelmer> hi Noldorin
[15:14] <Noldorin> hiya
[16:44] <SurvivorZ> OK. I have a feature branch w/ 8 commits. All 8 commits are merged into trunk. Now I have 5 more commits, merged into trunk, that should be in the feature branch. I know I can get to b4 the merge via $ bzr branch -rREV_B4_MERGE . newDir, but then how do I cherry pick pull the 5 later changes into the new branch? Everytime I do, it includes the merged feature branch, which makes it a copy of trunk.
[17:14] <SurvivorZ> repo=".."; for rev in {21..27}; do echo -n "Rebasing -r$rev from $repo: "; msg=`bzr log --short -c$rev $repo | grep -Ev '^ *[0-9]+ [[:alpha:] ]+' | sed -e 's/^ *//g' -e 's/ *$//g' | tr -d '\n'`; echo $msg; bzr merge -c$rev $repo; bzr commit -m"$msg"; done
[17:14] <SurvivorZ> I just created that to do what i want...
[22:37] <Noldorin> jelmer, not to mind. i found your old remove-revision plugin. handy little tool, cheers!
[22:38] <jelmer> ah, cool
[22:38] <jelmer> hope it's useful to you :)
[22:38] <jelmer> it's not the most efficient way this could be done, but I guess it sort of works
[22:39] <Noldorin> jelmer, yeah, it's an infrequent operation, so as long as it works, i'm happy heh
[23:00] <Noldorin> jelmer, hmm. is it possible to have a user-local ignore file for a branch?
[23:00] <Noldorin> i.e. one that doesn't exist in the actual branch
[23:01] <jelmer> Noldorin: in short ,no. see the mailing list for details
[23:01] <Noldorin> ah
[23:03] <fullermd> Well, if there isn't one for the branch, you can.
[23:03] <fullermd> Just stick a .bzrignore in there and don't add it.
[23:03] <fullermd> (and ignore itself, so you don't accidentally do so)
[23:04] <lifeless> Noldorin: you can have a user-local global ignores file
[23:05] <Noldorin> fullermd, yeah i want them side by side, really
[23:05] <Noldorin> lifeless, that's good enough for me, i suppose, yeah :)
[23:05] <fullermd> You could hack up the filesystem so that it alternates which one shows up on any given stat()/open()   ;)
[23:07] <Noldorin> fullermd, oh oh, what a superb idea!
[23:07] <Noldorin> well worth my time, no doubt
[23:08] <Noldorin> so elegant too
[23:08]  * fullermd is full of such wisdom!
[23:08] <Noldorin> i bet
[23:13] <Noldorin> so i'm trying to update bzr remove-revisions so that it works in the latest bzr now
[23:13] <Noldorin> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'CHKInventory' object has no attribute '_byid'
[23:13] <Noldorin> any ideas how to fix this?
[23:23] <Noldorin> nvm
[23:25] <Noldorin> but now i need to figure out what's happened to repository.text_store and repository.control_store
[23:28] <fullermd> Obviously, they're closed for the weekend.
[23:39] <Noldorin> fullermd, closed permanently, i hear
[23:39] <Noldorin> fullermd, but i also hear they reopened under new names and formats. perhaps you know more about it? :P
[23:40] <fullermd> I don't.  I just dork around with the UI, I stay away from that icky "thoPyn" or whatever that's under the hood.
[23:41] <Noldorin> heh i see
[23:43] <jelmer> Noldorin: yeah, I think the plugin is specific to an older format
[23:44] <Noldorin> mm
[23:44] <Noldorin> jelmer, was hoping i could rewrite it easily… but not proving trivial
[23:44] <Noldorin> not with my knoweledge of the internals at least
[23:44] <jelmer> it should be fairly easy - basically just clone the repository revisions but exclude the ones specified
[23:53] <Noldorin> heh
[23:53] <Noldorin> that assumes i know the object model
[23:53] <Noldorin> but still
[23:53] <Noldorin> if i invest a little time, you're probably right!


[00:16] <Unit193> bluesabre: Did we want one last meeting before release?  If so, knome has said a few times his schedule is a bit hectic so we'll have to do it without him.
[08:11] <ochosi> Unit193: i'd be up for that too
[08:11] <ochosi> you can schedule it at Unit193 / bluesabre friendly time, e.g. 00:00 UTC
[09:26] <bluesabre> wallpaper uploaded
[09:30] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 19.10.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=7c1290209da47399b8d7723f8be8a3f05027dca4 (by Sean Davis)
[09:35] <ochosi>  \o/
[09:35] <ochosi> just in time
[09:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: afaict the panel release went through
[09:36] <bluesabre> ochosi: yup!
[09:38] <ochosi> awesome sauce, thanks for pushing that in
[17:01] <flocculant> wallpapers etc are in my updates, panel isn't - but I don't know what version ochosi refers to, I have 4.14.1-0ubuntu1
[17:06] <Unit193> That's the new one.
[17:07] <flocculant> okey doke - wonder when I got that then, I've not been upgrading like a loony lately
[17:15] <Unit193> Hi.
[17:23] <flocculant> hi :)
[18:07] <ochosi> oh hi flocculant :)
[18:27] <flocculant> ochosi: hi :)
[22:47] <bluesabre> hi flocculant :)
[22:51] <Unit193> I pingededed you but you never responded. :(


[01:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83656 in soyuz "'language-package' uploads should not be announced in 'changeslist'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83656
[02:19] <mantiena_> hi all
[02:21] <mantiena> danilos: hi, translations export still doesn't work or I just need to request again (I've requested 3 days ago) ?
[03:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83674 in soyuz "Search package page is broken in beta" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83674
[06:50] <Bhaskar> why we are suffering for download po from launchapad, i have trying from 10 days, but not getting success, i have so urgent, why such problem is not solving by technical team of launchpad ????
[06:51] <stub> Bhaskar: The fix is in the process of being rolled out now. Carlos finished the work last night.
[06:51] <Bhaskar> stub, so how much time it will take?
[06:52] <stub> Regression tests are running now. Assuming the tests pass everything should be live in about 1 hour.
[06:53] <Bhaskar> stub, then after 1hr , can i get po?
[06:53] <stub> I certainly hope so - one of the the fixes claims to fix po exports.
[06:55] <Bhaskar> stub, i hope your team may get success
[07:16] <poolie_> stub, i just got a 500 error (rather than an oops) from launchpad
[07:18] <stub> Bah. The load balancer shouldn't have let that happen. I just took half the servers down for a code update, and I think you much have put in your request before the load balancer noticed.
[07:28] <stub> Bhaskar: exports should be working again
[07:29] <Bhaskar> stub, ok
[07:42] <Bhaskar> stub, very very thanks, i got po
[08:59] <carlos> morning
[09:36] <shawarma> Hm... http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=321 <--- That blog post shows a new look of Launchpad.. How can I get to see/test it in action?
[09:39] <mdke> shawarma: I believe the secret is to ask kiko.
[09:44] <carlos> shawarma: it's not yet open to the public, just to a small set of beta testers
[09:44] <carlos> shawarma: you can also ask SteveA if you are interested  (kiko is still sleeping)
[09:44] <shawarma> carlos, mdke: Oh, i thought it was just a matter of knowing a special URL or something.
[09:45] <carlos> not yet
[09:45] <carlos> but will be soon
[09:47] <shawarma> carlos: Wicked.
[10:26] <mantiena> Hi all
[10:28] <mrevell> mantiena: Hey
[10:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #679 in rosetta "firefox template file" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/679
[10:56] <Hobbsee> hey mrevell :)
[10:57] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Hey - how are you?
[10:58] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee, mrevell
[10:58] <Hobbsee> mrevell: good, dealing in uni timetables and the like :)
[10:58] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[10:58] <ajmitch> I see the beta ui is leaked on LP
[10:58] <mrevell> ajmitch: hey
[10:58] <Hobbsee> oh?
[10:58] <mrevell> ajmitch: leaked on LP?
[10:58] <ajmitch> sorry
[10:58] <ajmitch> on planet
[10:59] <LarstiQ> moin
[10:59] <mrevell> ajmitch: Hmm, haven't check the blogs yet today, I'll have a look
[10:59] <mrevell> LarstiQ: yo
[10:59] <mrevell> oh, okay
[11:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #40117 in rosetta "products/schooltool says that it doesn't use rosetta, but is open for translation" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40117
[11:01] <mrevell> Hobbsee: We were aiming to keep the UI private until the public beta.
[11:01] <Hobbsee> mrevell: that's what i would have thought.
[11:02] <mrevell> ajmitch: Thanks for letting me know.   Is any of it based on Plone?  thanks in advance!
[04:58] <jamesh> meatballhat: Launchpad uses the Zope 3 component architecture
[04:58] <jamesh> but it isn't something that you could plug into an existing Zope site
[05:06] <ddaa> the notion of "plugging launchpad" into something is vaguely amusing...
[05:06] <ddaa> "my electric razor needed power, so I plugged a nuclear power plant into it"
[05:07] <meatballhat> jamesh: thanks for the info :)   ... I'm just starting to poke at Zope and I was curious
[05:08] <ddaa> I think historically launchpad started based on plone or something, hence the look
[05:08] <ddaa> and the portlets
[05:09] <ddaa> but all the ploneness has been actively ripped out
[05:13] <cyberix> Who sets bug importance and status, when and why?
[05:14] <jamesh> ddaa: the original CSS was from plone
[05:14] <jamesh> ddaa: I don't know if we've ever used any plone code
[05:15] <ddaa> Well, we used limi, that surely qualifies as using a Plone component!
[05:16] <ddaa> cyberix: whoever, whenever, becausever
[05:16] <ddaa> cyberix: maybe ask a more specific question?
[05:18] <cyberix> I'm just wondering, if anyone will proces the bugs I've reported/subscribed
[05:19] <ddaa> depends where you reported the bugs...
[05:19] <cyberix> Ubuntu bugs in Launchpad
[05:20] <ddaa> cyberix: it's not the right place to ask
[05:20] <ddaa> I mean, this channel
[05:20] <cyberix> #ubuntu-dev then?
[05:20] <ddaa> cyberix: probably, yes
[05:21] <ddaa> cyberix: but if you reported any bug about launchpad, I'll be happy to help :)
[05:22] <radix> I wonder if #sourceforge gets lots of people asking about bugs in projects hosted on SF. I guess many have the assumption that "Launchpad the Ubuntu bug tracker", exclusively.
[05:22] <radix> (which I probably held myself some time in ancient history)
[05:22] <ddaa> radix: yes, there's a positioning problem with launchpad
[05:23] <ddaa> but I think most Launchpad folks do a good enough job at being ignorant of Ubuntu stuff to get the point across.
[05:23] <radix> heh, good strategy :)
[05:23] <jamesh> "Launchpad the Launchpad bug tracker"
[05:24] <ddaa> But there's apparently a meme around like "Launchpad = Ubuntu's new bugzilla"
[05:24] <jamesh> ddaa: that probably won't change til we have a few more high profile users
[05:25] <ddaa> I guess...
[05:25] <ddaa> "How do I file a bug on foo"
[05:25] <ddaa> "Go on launchpad"
[05:25] <ddaa> "No, I want to file a bug on foo, not on Ubuntu, I use debian you moron"
[05:26] <ddaa> "Go on launchpad"
[05:26] <jamesh> we'll have Zope on board sooner or later
[05:26] <radix> ddaa: yeah, when Ubuntu "switched from bugzilla to LP", without any context, that sounds like LP is just bug tracker software.
[05:26] <radix> jamesh: oh, really? that'd be awesome. I absolutely hate Collector :)
[05:26] <matsubara> cyberix: #ubuntu-bugs would be more appropriate
[05:27] <ddaa> "You are obviously an evil minion of baby-eating pan-african imperialist, I'm going to tell all of debian-legal about you"
[05:27] <radix> ddaa: man, you are bitter :)
[05:27] <ddaa> Me, I'm not :)
[05:27] <radix> hehe
[05:27] <ddaa> but some debian folks sound like they are, sometimes.
[05:28] <jamesh> radix: https://bugs.demo.launchpad.net/zope3 is the test import I did
[05:28] <kiko-anti-geneva> hi
[05:28] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA where can we move canonical.foaf.nickname?
[05:29] <salgado> kiko, is it used in more than one place?
[05:29] <jamesh> kiko-anti-geneva: yes!
[05:29] <radix> jamesh: cool
[05:29] <jamesh> kiko-anti-geneva: I think that code only has one user -- so you could bung it in database/person.py
[05:30] <flacoste> kiko-anti-geneva: what do you have against geneva?
[05:30] <kiko-anti-geneva> flacoste the geneva convention.
[05:30] <kiko-anti-geneva> but nicks are limited length
[05:30] <Spads> maybe he's on the global antipode of geneva
[05:31] <SteveA> kiko-anti-geneva: that's about generating a Person.name for a given email address?
[05:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> yeah
[05:31] <SteveA> if so, make it a method on IPersonSet
[05:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> this is non-urgent btw, I am just curious
[05:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> I'm probably not going to actually do it right now
[05:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> Spads: I am in favor of torture in certain situations
[05:32] <kiko-anti-geneva> and this is the second time in six months I consider resorting to it
[05:32] <jamesh> kiko-anti-geneva: you aren't meant to call it torture
[05:32] <kiko-anti-geneva> the first time was when danilos emailed somebody and they reposted the private email to a list
[05:32] <kiko-anti-geneva> today was the second time
[05:32] <flacoste> what's the occasion?
[05:33] <SteveA> kiko-anti-geneva: if you don't do it right now, then either file a bug or add a comment to the source.
[05:33] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA: sure. leave it to me.
[05:33] <SteveA> kiko-anti-geneva: otherwise, this conversation was a waste of time for both of us ;-)
[05:33] <kiko-anti-geneva> thanks
[05:34] <kiko-anti-geneva> I like your attitude btw
[05:34] <kiko-anti-geneva> the POP THE TRUNK attitude
[05:34] <SteveA> what's the anti-geneva story, man?
[05:35] <flacoste> yeah, kiko, who should be "questioned strongly"?
[05:35] <ddaa> flacoste: I think he means torture as punishment
[05:35] <ddaa> not as a way of obtaining information
[05:36] <flacoste> then he should renamed his nick to kiko-anti-human-rights, geneva convention is restricted to the case of captured soliders
[05:37] <kiko-anti-geneva> we are at war my friends
[05:37] <flacoste> i guess i will have to read the IRC log for the story
[05:39] <kiko-anti-geneva> yes some of us are busy killing sqlobject
[05:40] <salgado> hey flacoste. I heard kiko will tell you the whole story as soon as you review some changes he did while sitting at my desk and committed using my name (https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/salgado/launchpad/one-zero-gaps/full-diff ;)
[05:40] <carlos> kiko-anti-geneva: is there a plan when that migration will happen?
[05:41] <salgado> flacoste, he said you're the only one that's brave enough to review that
[05:41] <flacoste> salgado: ok, i can review that, should I mail kiko or you with my results?
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> flacoste yes, review that and I will tell you a story about torture
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> >>> p = Person.get(1)
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> >>> p._get_store()
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> <storm.store.Store object at 0x41fa4eac>
[05:42] <salgado> flacoste, me; I don't expect he'll give me any further help with that
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> I have helped that code as much as I cna
[05:42] <flacoste> kiko-anti-geneva: i don't want "a story", I want "the story" ;-)
[05:42] <kiko-anti-geneva> the only person who could make it better would be GOD
[05:43] <kiko-anti-geneva> but he is busy in the middle east
[05:43] <flacoste> salgado: while I'm reviewing yours, can you take a look at my ITicketCollection refactoring: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/flacoste/launchpad/refactoring/full-diff
[05:43] <flacoste> salgado: which you've been assigned as formal reviewer btw
[05:44] <salgado> flacoste, I was going for the fix-it-friday first. which one you prefer?
[05:45] <flacoste> salgado: refactoring, i have another branch that depends on it, fix-it-friday waited nearly two weeks, it can wait a few more days ;-)
[05:45] <salgado> and I also have your tt-email-fixes, so you can choose the order you prefer. :)
[05:45] <salgado> fair enough
[05:47] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA where can helpers.check_permission() go?
[05:47] <kiko-anti-geneva> webapp.adapter?
[05:47] <SteveA> no
[05:48] <SteveA> webapp.adapter should be webapp.dbadapter
[05:48] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA: any other suggestions? webapp.menu is importing helpers which gets me in a loop
[05:48] <SteveA> and check_permission has nothing to do with dbadapter
[05:48] <SteveA> what's it importing from helpers?
[05:48] <SteveA> just this?
[05:48] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA yes, just this.
[05:49] <SteveA> what is helpers importing?
[05:49] <SteveA> to make a loop?
[05:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> dbschema
[05:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> and it's hard to fix helpers
[05:49] <SteveA> why should it do that
[05:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> because helpers is the devil's spawn
[05:49] <SteveA> why is helpers importing dbschema?
[05:49] <SteveA> that sounds wrong to me
[05:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> it violates the geneva convention and the warsaw convention in at least 9 instances
[05:49] <SteveA> any generic dbschema helpers should go in dbschema
[05:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> well
[05:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> the reason helpers imports dbschema
[05:50] <SteveA> and any specific onces should be importing specific dbschema entries
[05:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> is because it defines  some crazy functions
[05:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> and module-level dictionaries
[05:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA: should check_permission not live in webapp you think?
[05:50] <SteveA> I'll answer that in a moment
[05:50] <SteveA> but I want to know why helpers is importing dbschema
[05:51] <kiko-anti-geneva> ok.,
[05:51] <kiko-anti-geneva> SteveA helpers.py:getFileType(), BINARYPACKAGE_EXTENSIONS
[05:51] <SteveA> the appropriate place for check_permission is living in launchpad/webapp/authorization.py
[05:52] <SteveA> getFileType shouldn't be in helpers.py
[05:52] <kiko-anti-geneva> agreed
[05:52] <kiko-anti-geneva> helpers.py should be empty.
[05:52] <SteveA> and helpers.py should not import dbschema
[05:53] <SteveA> getFileType is used only by gina/hadlers.py
[05:53] <SteveA> so ffs, put it in gina/handlers.py
[05:54] <kiko-anti-geneva> done.
[05:54] <SteveA> you're hot.  let's make out.
[05:54] <kiko-anti-geneva> now?
[05:55] <SteveA> no later. people might see us.
[05:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83791 in blueprint "The 'Choose' link in the beta blueprint front page is broken" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83791
[06:01] <bdmurray> I'm trying to use the e-mail interface to Malone and it didn't work the way I expected.
[06:03] <matsubara> bdmurray: could you elaborate on it?
[06:04] <bdmurray> matsubara: I was able to add a comment to the bug but the status change & assignee change did not take effect.
[06:04] <matsubara> bdmurray: did you gpg signed the message?
[06:05] <bdmurray> matsubara: yes
[06:05] <matsubara> bdmurray: which bug?
[06:05] <bdmurray> 82709
[06:07] <matsubara> bdmurray: I can't see the commands in your last comment. Would you send a copy of the email you sent to me? matsubara at canonical dot com?
[06:08] <bdmurray> matsubara: looking at the sent e-mail I don't see the commands so perhaps it is my mail client.
[06:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83794 in launchpad "canonical.foaf.nickname should be a method of IPersonSet" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83794
[06:13] <matsubara> bdmurray: I found an email from you in the lp-error logs but it's related to another bug.
[06:14] <bdmurray> matsubara: I seem to be squared away now.  I modified 82709 sucessfully.
[06:14] <bdmurray> matsubara: What was the error you found about?
[06:14] <matsubara> bdmurray: I mean, the error message I found is about "Signature couldn't be verified" when you tried to modify bug 77125
[06:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77125 in ubiquity "Feisty crashes on install" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77125 - Assigned to Brian Murray (brian-murray)
[06:16] <matsubara> the 'affects /distros/ubuntu/linux-source-2.6.20' is in the same line as the Organization header.
[06:16] <matsubara> bdmurray:  a copy of it: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6324298/hmmhdg7YIAKq6zxWapsIGdQF6RH.txt
[06:18] <bdmurray> matsubara: okay thanks.  is affects the right way to change the source package?
[06:19] <matsubara> bdmurray: not sure as I never used that command (https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail might make things clearer)
[06:19] <bdmurray> matsubara: okay.  Thanks again for the help.
[06:20] <matsubara> bdmurray: you're welcome
[06:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #53652 in rosetta "Manually changing the alt language code in +translate leads to an OOPS" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53652
[06:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> matsubara: bzr+ssh push is really fast with 0.14
[06:31] <kiko-anti-geneva> the progress is good
[06:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83801 in rosetta "Opening a new distro release to translations should be done with a live system" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83801
[06:44] <flacoste> kiko-anti-geneva: I'm ready to hit 'send' on the review, so what about that torture story?
[06:46] <salgado> flacoste, he didn't tell you that the story will only be told if the review includes an r=flacoste. :p
[06:46] <kiko-anti-geneva> flacoste: I can't have private chats here, not registered :-(
[06:47] <flacoste> the excuse!
[06:48] <flacoste> salgado: review sent, there are two changes that I cannot understand: some changes to sampledata and the removal of results from a doctest
[06:48] <flacoste> salgado: if you can make sense of these, I'll happily give you r=flacoste
[06:50] <salgado> flacoste, cool; the only intentional sampledata changes I did are the ones on Karmacache/karmatotalcache. the other ones seemed to be just our sampledata generation thing removing newlines. I'll reply shortly, anyway
[06:54] <carlos> see you!
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva> salgado: ping?
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>   File "/home/kiko/devel/trivialities-20070205/lib/canonical/launchpad/database/person.py", line 1208, in topPeople
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>     top_people.sort(key=lambda obj: (obj.karma, obj.id), reverse=True)
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>   File "/home/kiko/devel/trivialities-20070205/lib/canonical/launchpad/database/person.py", line 1208, in <lambda>
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>     top_people.sort(key=lambda obj: (obj.karma, obj.id), reverse=True)
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>   File "/home/kiko/devel/trivialities-20070205/lib/canonical/launchpad/database/person.py", line 625, in karma
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva>     cache = KarmaTotalCache.selectOneBy(person=self)
[07:06] <kiko-anti-geneva> salgado: can we make topPeople stop traversing obj.karma?
[07:07] <salgado> it looks like a traceback to me
[07:07] <kiko-anti-geneva> it issues one query per person, which is kinda evil.
[07:07] <kiko-anti-geneva> you should just join in the karma in the first query.
[07:07] <salgado> did I write this code?
[07:07] <kiko-anti-geneva> maybe not. but you own it. :-P
[07:08] <ddaa> "ya maybe not guilty, but ya're responsible"
[07:09] <salgado> kiko-anti-geneva, I've never seen this code before
[07:31] <mpt> Gooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[07:33] <jelmer> hey mpt
[07:35] <LaserJock> hi mpt
[07:48] <kiko> salgado, nice :-(
[07:49] <salgado> kiko, I don't think doing that is a problem in this case, since it limits the number of results to 5
[08:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83828 in soyuz "+last-uploads should be +latest-uploads" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83828
[09:03] <kiko-anti-geneva> morbec: claro
[09:03] <kiko-anti-geneva> 19:50 aqui
[09:03] <salgado> kiko, wrong tab
[09:03] <salgado> kiko-anti-geneva, ^
[09:03] <kiko-anti-geneva> I don't know how to use bitchx
[09:08] <kiko-anti-geneva> danilos: any clue why +translate is still not being indexed?
[09:09] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: no clue, maybe we should try with Google sitemaps as well? (though, that's going to be a job in itself)
[09:10] <kiko-anti-geneva> danilos: I don't know how sitemaps works.
[09:10] <kiko-anti-geneva> danilos: can we tell it to start indexing everything? :-)
[09:10] <mpt> kiko, have you tried yourself to get to the translation page while logged out?
[09:10] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: it probably does, but that may take anything from 1 to 6 months :)
[09:10] <kiko-anti-geneva> mpt yes. it works.
[09:11] <kiko-anti-geneva> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/launchpad-integration/+pots/launchpad-integration/af/+translate
[09:12] <mpt> kiko, by "get to" I mean navigate from https://launchpad.net/
[09:13] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: it actually seems to index them
[09:14] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: try searching for "site:translations.launchpad.net gegl"
[09:14] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: in 4-5 places, I see Ukrainian and zh_TW translations
[09:15] <danilos> inside Dapper, so it's probably about page ranking (i.e. seldomly linked pages are not indexed or searched)
[09:16] <mpt> "You are browsing gnome-desktop into Ukrainian"
[09:16] <mpt> Ah, the power of browsing
[09:17] <kiko-anti-geneva> danilos: can you fix that? :)
[09:17] <kiko-anti-geneva> it should say
[09:17] <kiko-anti-geneva> you are browsing gnome-desktop in Ukranian
[09:17] <kiko-anti-geneva> that's the simplest change
[09:17] <kiko-anti-geneva> jamesh: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filedXnCtK.html
[09:18] <ddaa> Hu... what about "gnome-desktop in Ukranian"... users know they are browsing...
[09:18] <danilos> kiko-anti-geneva: I can't fix my blog to get onto Google, but sure I can fix that "into" :)
[09:18] <kiko-anti-geneva> danilos: heh
[09:19] <mpt> danilos, "You are translating" -> "Translations for"
[09:20] <mpt> err, what am I talking about
[09:21] <mpt> "Translations of" "gnome-desktop into Ukrainian"
[09:22] <danilos> mpt: ? you want me to replace 'You are translating' as well (the one shown when someone is logged in)?
[09:24] <danilos> I'll just fix the 'into'/'in' bug, file bugs for anything else :)
[09:24] <jwendell> hi, LP guys.
[09:25] <LarstiQ> hi jwendell
[09:25] <jwendell> any idea why i'm subscribed to bug 82956?
[09:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82956 in slab "gnome-main-menu only retains 6 favorite applications" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82956
[09:29] <matsubara> jwendell: because you're the registrant of the gnome-main-menu product
[09:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83846 in launchpad-support-tracker "Comments are not threaded under the original notification" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83846
[09:36] <jwendell> matsubara, thanks. i just changed the 'owner'
[09:41] <kiko-anti-geneva> jwendell: you can reassign it to "registry" if you like.
[09:41] <jwendell> kiko-anti-geneva, i guess i can't do it anymore. i've changed the 'onwer' to desktop-bugs...
[09:41] <kiko-anti-geneva> jwendell: I think that's actually bad, so let me fix that.
[09:42] <jwendell> kiko-anti-geneva, thanks
[09:48] <kiko-anti-geneva> fixed jwendell
[09:48] <jwendell> kiko-anti-geneva, thanks
[09:49] <kiko-anti-geneva> jwendell: no estou registrado :-(
[09:50] <jwendell> kiko-anti-geneva, no entendi
[09:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> o /msg no funciona se no estou registrado
[09:50] <kiko-anti-geneva> jwendell: /j #async
[09:55] <LaserJock> kiko-anti-geneva: any word on bug #79671 ? what does the fix-it-friday tag actually do?
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79671 in malone "Allow +filebug?tag=... URLs for pre-setting tags" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79671
[09:56] <kiko-anti-geneva> LaserJock it makes the bug considered for f-i-f
[09:56] <kiko-anti-geneva> not necessarily that it will happen
[09:56] <LaserJock> so a "we'll think about it" ? ;-)
[09:58] <kiko-anti-geneva> LaserJock: it means there's a strong chance it'll go into A friday, but not always this friday
[09:58] <kiko-anti-geneva> the reason it's not done is that I'm very busy these weeks
[09:59] <kiko-anti-geneva> otherwise it would have been
[09:59] <kiko-anti-geneva> you can ping BjornT who unlike me isn't sprinting
[09:59] <LaserJock> k, np. I just wondered how the f-i-f workflow worked
[10:19] <LaserJock> does beta run on similar hardware to the current LP?
[10:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83866 in launchpad "text input box is too small in 1.0 bug filing UI" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83866
[11:00] <mdke> where does one see changelogs in LP?
[11:00] <mdke> ah, under build
[11:00] <mdke> my bad
[11:01] <mdke> probably they should be available from the source package page
[11:20] <ddaa> jml: hello
[11:21] <jml> hi
[11:21] <ddaa> how's coffee this morning?
[11:23] <jml> ddaa: not strong enough
[11:23] <jml> and I think the guy who made it overheated the milk
[11:24] <ddaa> ha, you drink this .au "white coffee"?
[11:24] <jml> ddaa: cafe latte.
[11:25] <jml> ddaa: in the mornings, and then espresso afterwards.
[11:25] <ddaa> I see you share the same coffee habit as thumper and I :)
[11:26] <jml> ddaa: glad to hear it :)
[11:26] <ddaa> That's good, so we can have virtual coffee machine chats :)
[11:26] <jml> heh heh
[11:26] <ddaa> for a minute I feared I would have watercooler chats with you :)
[11:26] <jml> perhaps I should come and visit -- I hear they have good cafes in Paris :)
[11:27] <ddaa> Sure, but you'd need to come in May to have the real Paris cafe experience.
[11:27] <ddaa> before, it's too cold to have a coffee on the terrace
[11:28] <jml> ddaa: oh yeah. that crazy northern hemisphere.
[11:30] <ddaa> hey, with a fancy you could regard the plane trees as shedding their bark, like your crazy .au trees
[11:30] <ddaa> besides _we_ do not walk upside down
[11:31] <ddaa> jml: how's work going?
[11:32] <ddaa> mh... s/plane trees/sycamores/
[11:32] <jml> ddaa: alright. I'm feeling the lack of a fast linux-friendly machine.
[11:33] <jml> ddaa: I was wondering what a plane tree was :)
[11:35] <ddaa> jml: here, the branch-puller splitting is going well, I expect to have it up for review tonight before going to bed
[11:36] <jml> ddaa: cool
[11:36] <jml> ddaa: also, you work strange hours.
[11:36] <ddaa> some people work stranger hours
[11:36] <jml> ddaa: in Australia, all the hours are upside down
[11:37] <ddaa> yeah... just thinking that you could disprove the cat theorem
[11:38] <ddaa> take a .au cat on the northern hemisphere, and it will probably be confused and fall on its back :)
[11:38] <jml> ddaa: I know just enough for that to make my brain hurt _really_ badly.
[11:38] <jml> ddaa: oh, I thought you were talking about Schroedinger's Cat
[11:39] <ddaa> oh... I do not believe in Shroedinger's cat
[11:39] <ddaa> quantum mechanics are just fancy mathematical model that happens to have interesting explanatory properties
[11:39] <ddaa> but I do believe it actually bears any resemblance to reality
[11:40] <ddaa> s/do/do not/
[11:40] <jml> well, you see, that's about where my physics knowledge ends :)
[11:41] <ddaa> just enough to be convinced this model is too kludgy to be true
[12:13] <moreati> Hi. When adding a comment/patch to a bug report, is there a syntax for autolinking to other bugs? Or should I instead paste the full URL?
[12:18] <ddaa> "bug 1234" will generate a hyperlink in a comment
[12:18] <Ubugtu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private


 Amazon Ads in Gnome-Shell!  Someone fire up the rant-o-matic and take aim!
[22:51] <JanC> erm...
[22:52] <mhall119> but seriously, it's pretty cool and I hope you don't get flamed over it
[22:52] <mhall119> JanC: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/12/shopping-lens-for-gnome-shell/
[22:52] <JanC> most people never complained about being able to search amazon, they complained about the amazon search being enabled by default
[22:53] <mhall119> JanC: there were lots of variations on the complaints
[22:54] <JanC> mhall119: I am talking about the informed rants
[22:54] <JanC> obviously a lot of people parrot what they read elsewhere, often not getting the real point
[22:55] <mhall119> JanC: The people who think it shouldn't have been default are reasonable and informed, yes.  The people who think that it being default made it bad/evil/spyware/adware not so much.
[22:55] <JanC> but enabling the Amazon search by default was a *real* privacy violation (partially because it was implemented amateurishly)
[22:56] <mhall119> JanC: I would agree that it was a minor to moderate privacy concern
[22:56] <MrChrisDruif> JanC; +1
[22:56] <IdleOne> mhall119: it is very similar to the ubuntu shopping lens but gives more power to the user.
[22:57] <mhall119> but the fact that it was well known, public, and transparent to the best of our abilities
[22:57] <IdleOne> mhall119: of course he is going to get flamed, how many people actually will look at the code.
[22:57] <AlanBell> mhall119: yes indeed :)
[22:58] <JanC> mhall119: I think you don't know about EU consumer protection law (and apparently, Canonical legal didn't check this either...)
[22:58] <AlanBell> this is a bit of a pot stiring activity on some levels, but I figured someone else would do it if I didn't
[22:59] <mhall119> JanC: Well I can't comment on that side of things, not my department
[23:00] <JanC> but then again, Canonical is using Google Docs etc. too, against recommendations of every business association I know...
[23:00] <mhall119> well, my XChat try-out was short lived, do people actually use that?
[23:00] <JanC> mhall119: I use XChat (not XChat GNOME!) all the time
[23:00] <mhall119> JanC: we also give our products away for free and let people outside the company work on them.  It's safe to say we're not like most businesses
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> mhall119; I use it as my default irc-client
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> JanC; +1 =D
[23:01] <JanC> mhall119: EU privacy law applies to for-profits or non-profits equally
[23:02] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: I'll give that one a try
[23:02] <mhall119> JanC: Does EU privacy law say that we can't use google docs?
[23:02] <AlanBell> nope
[23:02] <AlanBell> depending on what data you put on it
[23:03] <AlanBell> it does mean that public authorities tend not to be able to use it
[23:03] <JanC> it's forbidden to export private information about EU persons outside the EU, and Google does host their data (partially) outside the EU...
[23:03] <czajkowski> JanC: canonical isn't a non profit organisation
[23:03] <JanC> so an addressbook in Google mail would likely be illegal for EU companies...
[23:03] <AlanBell> indeed, but that doesn't mean you can't use google docs, there are just specific types of data that have jurisidictional issues
[23:04] <AlanBell> nope, address book tends not to be personal information
[23:04] <JanC> czajkowski: like I said, doens't matter if it's for-profit or non-profit
[23:05] <mhall119> JanC: that seems particularly silly, you mean you can't carry a laptop out of the EU if it has information about EU persons on it?  You can't send that data over the internet if it goes outside the EU?  You can't use off-site backup outisde the EU?
[23:05] <JanC> AlanBell: addressbooks definitely *are* personal information
[23:05] <czajkowski> JanC: think it does tbh, and especially when it's a private ltd
[23:06] <JanC> czajkowski: it doesn't matter for privacy laws
[23:06] <JanC> and there are currently lots of companies violating these laws
[23:06] <mhall119> JanC: so the EU has legislated a data-wall around the continent?
[23:07] <JanC> a wall around data that contains private data indeed (unless you get special permissions)
[23:07] <mhall119> JanC: how can they possibly hope to enforce that?
[23:08] <AlanBell> czajkowski: nope, it doesn't make a difference. Public authorities are a bit different though
[23:08] <AlanBell> http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/key_definitions.aspx
[23:08] <czajkowski> JanC: I'm sure this is something we're all missing given canonical is registered in multiple counteries also
[23:08] <JanC> mhall119: in theory, you can sue companies that export your private information
[23:08] <AlanBell> "and includes any expression of opinion about the individual and any indication of the intentions of the data controller or any other person in respect of the individual." <- without that an address book is OK
[23:09] <mhall119> JanC: oh, so it's just a blank-check for lawsuits
[23:09] <AlanBell> but if you have notes about people or sensitive data in the address book then it becomes personal data or sensitive personal data
[23:09] <JanC> mhall119: only if you can prove that they export it  ☺
[23:09] <mhall119> JanC: how does the law define "export"?
[23:10] <JanC> moving/copying data outside the EU territory
[23:10] <AlanBell> that is a grey area, but putting it in range of a US subpoena is probably a bad idea
[23:10] <JanC> mhall119: if other countries make decent privacy laws, they will make exceptions, I'm sure
[23:10] <mhall119> so if Alice in the EU emails data to her co-worker Bob in the EU, but the internet path makes a hop outside the EU, are they in violation?
[23:11] <AlanBell> mhall119: technically, yes
[23:11] <mhall119> so basically you can't send private data over the internet
[23:11] <cjohnston> what a joke
[23:11] <AlanBell> not private data
[23:11] <AlanBell> personal data
[23:11] <JanC> you can use encrypted channels  ☺
[23:11] <mhall119> ok, so you can't send personal data over the internet
[23:12] <mhall119> JanC: does the law make an exception if it's encrypted?
[23:12] <JanC> if you have a company mail server, it should enforce SSL outside the company LAN
[23:12] <mhall119> a) Does the law make an exception for encrypted data
[23:13] <mhall119> b) what if the recipient of the mail doesn't have their server setup for SSL?
[23:13] <AlanBell> mhall119: the law doesn't mention it (as far as I know)
[23:13] <cjohnston> What if Alice works in the EU and Bob works outside of the EU but they both work for the same company?
[23:13] <AlanBell> but it is about responsible stewardship of data about people
[23:13] <mhall119> AlanBell: I'm all for responsible stewardship, but vague unenforcable laws are rubbish
[23:14] <cjohnston> +1
[23:14] <JanC> I'm sure encryption would be acceptable, but exchanging data between EU and non-EU subsidiaries probably would not be...
[23:14] <JanC> not without permission, at least
[23:15] <cjohnston> So the EU is trying to prevent companies from doing business
[23:15] <AlanBell> there are practical difficulties with compliance I totally agree with that. Cross border law is always a pain
[23:15] <AlanBell> this pre-dates the EU really
[23:15] <JanC> cjohnston: they try to force other countries to get decent privacy laws  ;)
[23:16] <cjohnston> That isn't how the world works
[23:16] <cjohnston> I don't want my country to be forced to do anything that the EU wants to do
[23:16] <JanC> cjohnston: most countries have laws like that
[23:16] <mhall119> no, it forces companies to try and not do anything outrageously stupid for fear of being sued
[23:16] <AlanBell> rubbish
[23:17] <AlanBell> this is about particular classes of data
[23:17] <cjohnston> JanC: the way your saying it though, even if Bob's country has decent privacy laws, Alice still can't send him the data
[23:17] <mhall119> cjohnston: why not, the US does that kind of thing all the time
[23:17] <czajkowski> just FYI, while this topic is interesting it;s spiriling down fast into our country V EU fast and it's reading well.
[23:17] <czajkowski> not nice
[23:18] <cjohnston> mhall119: what are you saying that the US does all the time? trying to force other countries to do what we do?
[23:18] <AlanBell> the way it breaks down is that we have laws that mean the data subject can ask an organisation what data is held about them - medical records, insurance stuff, etc.
[23:18] <JanC> cjohnston: you can get exceptions
[23:18] <mhall119> cjohnston: yes
[23:19] <cjohnston> mhall119: I don't agree with it though. I don't want to force any of our laws on other countries and the other way around
[23:19] <AlanBell> it is to enforce a bit of transparency on companies siloing lots of data about people they want to mine for their evil purposes - the data subject has some rights over data about themselves if it is *personal data* or *sensitive personal data*
[23:20] <AlanBell> this is a good thing, and it predates the widespread use of the internet
[23:20] <JanC> AlanBell: right, and as EU law can only enforce that inside the EU, they forbid export of such that in general
[23:21] <AlanBell> we then harmonised this across the EU and that has become the larger jurisdictional area because all EU countries are required to implement laws to meet the EU regulation
[23:21] <JanC> such data
[23:21] <AlanBell> sending this type of data outside the jurisdiction of the EU is problematic - and 99% of the time unneccessary
[23:22] <JanC> cjohnston: the US actually forced the EU to disclose private information about people flying to the US, for example (otherwise EU citizens would have to get a visum to fly to the US individually, seriously hampering business...)
[23:23] <czajkowski> ESTA waiver is money racket
[23:23] <cjohnston> That I don't have a problem with.. That is a potential national security issue.. but Joe Bob's 'private' info, not so much
[23:23] <AlanBell> http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/principle_8.aspx and there is a bilateral agreement with the USA anyway relating to the Department of Commerce Safe Harbor Scheme
[23:24] <AlanBell> and that page specifically addresses the issue of data in transit
[23:26] <AlanBell> now the problem with Google Docs is partially to do with misunderstandings around what constitutes personal data, but it also presents problems for public authorities in particular for political and legal reasons that don't include data protection acts
[23:28] <JanC> anyway, the original issue was about the amazon search...  ;)
[23:29] <JanC> and even where that would be legally allowed, I (personally) would still consider it a privacy violation on moral grounds...
[23:30] <daker> being enabled by default and lambda users didn't that they where sending that to canonical when they try searching something throw the dash even if it's localy
[23:30] <daker> sending data*
[23:31] <JanC> daker: sending data to Canonical might be acceptable (you are using a product from them, after all, so you sort of have to trust Canonical), but the fact is that it sends data directly to Amazon too...
[23:32] <daker> the only thing i know : data is sent to canonical
[23:33] <AlanBell> so send it to me instead \o/
[23:33] <JanC> daker: and then you get results, and the results include direct links to Amazon to display the images?
[23:34] <daker> ah yes
[23:34] <JanC> which allows Amazon to correlate queries to you
[23:37] <AlanBell> probably not actually
[23:37] <AlanBell> I doubt they bother tracking image hits, and that wouldn't tell them the query
[23:37] <JanC> AlanBell: I doubt they do that right now (not enough people use Ubuntu yet), but if Ubuntu ever gets really popular they would be stupid not to do it
[23:37] <daker> AlanBell: +1
[23:37] <JanC> it's all about economics
[23:38] <AlanBell> JanC: as soon as someone clicks a result then they are subject to all the normal amazon tracking
[23:38] <JanC> AlanBell: sure
[23:38] <AlanBell> we will be sending them so much crap data as people search for "chrome" on amazon and stuff like that
[23:39] <AlanBell> if Ubuntu was *huge* and people arrived at purchases a vast amount then they might contemplate doing a study of the data, but really they could get all the data they want about ubuntu users from the affiliate ID and what is actually purchased
[23:40] <AlanBell> so then bias the ubuntu portal results with stuff that Ubuntu people are more likely to want than the average population
[23:40] <JanC> in any case, a separate shopping lens sounds like a nice idea to me (provided the results can be tailored to people's personal preferences), but including it in searches by default is not useful and probably harmful
[23:42] <JanC> AlanBell: I already have to work (as much as possible) around Google's "most probably wanted" suggestions all the time, so I'd ratter not have that problem on other sites too  :p
[23:43] <JanC> (and of course Amazon is not what most people want to buy things from)
[23:46] <czajkowski> JanC: bought 29/31 xmas gifts from amazon this christmas and many via the dash :)
[23:48] <JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: https://launchpad.net/~iveworkedwithmichaelhall <-- nice team!
[23:53] <AlanBell> I went to the local recyling center today to chuck out christmas packaging, they basically have a skip full of amazon boxes
[23:57] <JanC> czajkowski: I didn't say nobody uses it, after all I said a shopping lens *is* a good idea!
[23:59] <JanC> remember that (to be legal) we have to pay 30% import taxes on whatever we buy on amazon.com (and maybe amazon.co.uk too?), and amazon.de & amazon.fr aren't that cheap compared to local shops either  ;)
[23:59] <czajkowski> Not only was amazon cheaper, it was also less hassle


[12:53] <mdales> morning
[12:53] <mdales> what's the last moment I can have a job stop on shutdown on an ubuntu system? would it be on stopped rc0?
[13:56] <ion_> http://ircimg.org/img/15762.gif
[14:05] <quitte> hi. is upstart usable without sysvinit compatibility? is there a way to shutdown or reboot the system without sysvinit compatibility?
[15:01] <quitte> couldsomeone hit me with a cluebat? I'm looking at /etc/rc0.d/S90halt. I thought that S meant start the script. but for start this script is a noop?
[15:03] <mdales> quitte: read http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s-sysvinit
[15:03] <mdales> IIRC all scripts in rc0.d are sent stop, not matter what their name
[15:06] <quitte> right. thanks. I fail to see why that is done,though.
[15:07] <quitte> does ubuntu have any more scripts in event.d than the ones directly linked from the upstart.ubuntu.com page?
[15:10] <mdales> quitte: pass
[15:11] <mdales> quitte: I'm new to it all too, I just thought you mgiht find that info helpful
[15:12] <quitte> yes. it definately was. I'm new to it myself. as it seems to be quite easy to write event scripts and found upstart in experimental I thought I might finally giveit a try.
[15:12] <mdales> morning Keybuk
[15:17] <quitte> of course I immediately got stuck. Are there any plans about handling filesystems? It'd be nice if upstart were looking for both the device and the mountpoint. and as soon as both exist mounts the filesystem.
[15:17] <Keybuk> hey
[15:21] <Keybuk> quitte: we're still working on a lot of the ideas for that kind of thing
[15:22] <Keybuk> Upstart is still very much in development
[15:22] <mdales> but is already pretty spiffy
[15:22] <mdales> :)
[15:24] <quitte> yes. the ideas are great. unfortunately it sounds as if it wasn'T complete eough to be a full sysvinit replacemet even for embedded devices with a very limit set of services
[15:24] <Keybuk> it can replace sysvinit
[15:24] <Keybuk> but it can't yet replace sysv-rc
[15:24] <quitte> but I bet I'd have equal trouble with launchd
[15:24] <Keybuk> many people confuse the two
[15:25] <quitte> ah. I did, too
[15:25] <Keybuk> it has all of the features of the sysv init daemon
[15:25] <Keybuk> but does not yet have the ability to order the starting of tasks and services
[15:25] <Keybuk> so you still need something like sysv-rc
[15:25] <Keybuk> (ie the /etc/rc?.d directories)
[15:27] <quitte> meh. well I guess I could use a single eventfile for every filesystem until you guyscome up with a solution.
[15:28] <quitte> are subdirectories supported to group the files?
[15:29] <Keybuk> yes
[15:29] <Keybuk> you could always help with the solution ;)
[15:31] <quitte> I could make it print hello world on the screen and even make it as for your name
[15:51] <quitte> hmm. waiting for a file to exist isn't possible, yet?
[15:54] <Keybuk> right
[15:58] <quitte> :( I shouldn'T have watched the launchd techtalk.
[16:08] <Keybuk> oh?
[16:08] <Keybuk> I haven't seen that?
[16:08] <Keybuk> is it new?
[16:11] <quitte> no. 20.7.
 15:25:33> +but does not yet have the ability to order the starting of tasks and services << i've done it ;)
[16:24] <AlexExtreme> although in a pretty hackish way
[16:24] <AlexExtreme> and no event based mounting/networking etc
[16:24] <Keybuk> how did you do it?
[16:25] <AlexExtreme> wait, do you mean just convert to a native upstart bootup without sysvinit scripts, or something else?
[16:25] <Keybuk> yes
[16:26] <AlexExtreme> yes to which one?
[16:26] <Keybuk> the first one
[16:26] <AlexExtreme> didn't you see what I did for frugalware?
[16:26] <Keybuk> no...
[16:26] <Keybuk> or I did, and I forgot
[16:27] <AlexExtreme> let me find it
[16:28] <AlexExtreme> http://ftp.frugalware.org/pub/other/upstart-jobs/upstart-jobs/
[16:28] <AlexExtreme> that's the base jobs, there's some stuff elsewhere for other packages like dbus and friends, which I can't find
[16:41] <Keybuk> you're using a single mount script?
[16:42] <AlexExtreme> yes, as far as I can tell there isn't a good way to do it better, atm
[16:42] <AlexExtreme> which is why I said it's a bit hackish
[16:47] <Keybuk> *nods*
[16:48] <AlexExtreme> but, i probably won't work on that anymore, seeing as I no longer develop for frugalware ;)
[16:49] <Keybuk> oh, how comes?
[16:50] <AlexExtreme> you forget stuff, i told you a while ago
[16:50] <AlexExtreme> i wanted to work on my own projects a bit more, plus I have a lot of school work these days, so I don't get a lot of time for other stuff
[16:53] <AlexExtreme> plus it annoyed me a little that they were so concerned about dumb little things like how the output of the bootup looked (that dodgy "initmsg" stuff in the jobs I linked before)
[16:54] <AlexExtreme> i mean, it's ok to make it look "friendly", but they were more concerned about it than it actually working...
[16:54] <AlexExtreme> anyway, </rant> ;)
[19:18] <quitte> Keybuk: I just read th states blueprint and I may have a suggstion. wouldn't it make sense to have every event result in a state? for example events.d/hostname was successfully executed resultsin a state hostname is set?
[19:20] <quitte> also if changing /etc/hostname caused an event that events.d/hostname registered for the hostname could be changed by just changing the file


[03:17] <Brainstorm> ❗ भूकंप की चेतावनी / ভূমিকম্প সতর্কতা / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for India-Bangladesh Border Region (just felt near Lakhipur?) — Follow for updates (Twitter)
[03:19] <Brainstorm> 🌏 भूकंप? Earthquake? Likely strong tremor, with 30 reports, 16 early, possibly occurred 3 minutes ago (03:16:09 UTC), during daytime, Nongpoh, India (26.02, 92.03) ± 108 km likely felt 330 km away — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1604226906 (Twitter)
[03:25] <Brainstorm> 🏠 भूकंप! ভূমিকম্প! Earthquake! 5.0 Mb tremor, registered by GEOFON,alomax, with 37 reports, 13 early, occurred 9 minutes ago (03:15:26 UTC), during daytime, Tura, India (25.68, 90.43) ± 69 km, ↓8 km likely felt 410 km away (in Dhubri…) by 2.4 million people with 2 nearby reactors — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1604226906 [... want %more?]
[03:27] <pavlushka> %quake
[03:27] <Brainstorm> pavlushka, Last reports: 5.0 Mb, 03:15 UTC Tura, India (25.72, 90.42) ± 66 km, ↓8 km felt to 410 km (in Dhubri…) by 2.4 million and 2 reactors
[03:34] <Brainstorm> 📈 5.3 Mb tremor, registered by 4 agencies, with 38 reports, 14 early, occurred 19 minutes ago (03:15:24 UTC), during daytime, Lakhipur, India (25.99, 90.3) ± 3 km, ↓5 km likely felt 420 km away (in Dhubri…) by 2.4 million people with 2 nearby reactors — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1604226906 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1589974236 (earthquake.usgs.gov)
[14:09] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +11162 cases (now 977568), +201 deaths (now 15593) since a day ago