[00:29] <aleite> @JontheEchid: I found the problem with the opengl lib
[01:15] <vorian> eeeewwwwwwwwwwwww
[01:15] <vorian> nhandler is gnoming it up on the planet
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> I bet all the dudes in #ubuntu-devel were going "eww, JontheEchidna is KDEing up the planet with his silly weather wallpaper" :P
[01:17] <vorian> haha
[01:26] <seele> any idea why Login Manager in SYstem Settings opens in a new window? apparently it doesnt do that in trunk
[01:27] <Gon> I just compile the port to KDE4 Konversation, I think is very good, I think that quassel was a very bad choice for jaunty
[01:28] <seele> 1) konversation wasn't available when the decision needed to be made
[01:28] <seele> 2) a lot of people are happy with quassel
[01:28] <jjesse> good evening back to my sound problem, when i boot from the kernel for 2.6.27-11 i have sound, but if i boot from kernel 2.6.28-11 i get no sound, any ideas?
[01:28] <jjesse> +1 to seele
[01:29] <Gon> quassel are beatiful, but doesn't have complete support for irc functions
[01:29] <Gon> ex: doesn't have DCC
[01:29] <Gon> :(
[01:29] <Gon> Further, the "buffers" are very uncomfortable
[01:30] <Gon> :/
[01:30] <jjesse> Gon: I actually have learned to enjoy how quassel is setup and how it works
[01:31] <jjesse> however i bet that konverstation for kde4 will be eventually packaged if it isn't and available for install
[01:31] <Gon> :)
[01:31] <vorian> it will be backported
[01:32] <Gon> I think Konversation is the best we could have an eventual 9.04.1
[01:32] <Gon> :D
[01:33] <vorian> there will be no 9.04.1, jaunty is not LTS
[01:33] <Gon> :(
[01:33] <vorian> there will be backports available
[01:33] <vorian> and to be honest, quassel has my vote to remain the default irc client
[01:34] <Gon> without dcc?
[01:34] <Gon> :s
[01:36] <vorian> that :s thingie crashed my system
[01:36] <vorian> :P
[01:37] <Gon> I thought that the paradigm of kde4, was able to have non-castrated software as some other desktop manager whose icon is a foot
[01:37] <Gon> xD
[01:43] <ScottK> Gon: The main use case for the IRC client on CD is for user support.  DCC isn't needed for that.  Konversation is still around and can be used.
[01:44] <ScottK> I expect it will be an interesting discussion around the default for 9.10.
[01:44] <Gon> ok
[01:45] <ScottK> Sput: What are the odds of DCC support for 0.5?
[01:45] <ScottK> He's one of the quassel devs.
[01:46] <ScottK> Gon: One of the other advantages for us is that because Quassel is a relatively smaller project being the default client for Kubuntu is a big deal for them.  They are very responsive when we have suggestions/feedback.
[01:47] <Gon> Konversation was already known and easy to use
[01:48] <ScottK> But not KDE4.
[01:48] <Gon> :s
[01:48] <ScottK> Although we didn't quite make it, we made the decision as part of a feature goal for Jaunty to have only KDE4 apps on the CD.
[01:49] <ScottK> IIRC we got everything except OOo integration to KDE4.
[01:52] <JontheEchidna> seele: The Login Manager needs root permissions. If we didn't open it in a separate window with admin permissions it wouldn't work at all :(
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> K3b is the only other thing that isnt' KDE4
[01:54] <JontheEchidna> the frustrating thing is that it was *almost* good enough, but burning CD/DVD images was busted
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> so when I do apt-cache rdepends kdelibs4c2a, adept-manager show up even though I've not had that package installed since hardy
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> is there any way to get rid of it?
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> (for the rdepends listing)
[01:56] <JontheEchidna> s/for/from
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> lol? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu
[01:59]  * JontheEchidna points at the Kubuntu desktop  pic
[02:00] <JontheEchidna> Since when did we become Kubundora?
[02:00] <vorian> HA!
[02:00] <vorian> :/
[02:00] <vorian> actually, it's not so funny
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> blasphemy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kubuntuoffice.png
[02:02] <vorian> OMG
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> gotta admit that that's pretty snazzy looking...
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> Wine is an amazing thing
[02:02] <vorian> pfft
[02:02] <vorian> blender
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> you put your Wine in a Blender?
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> :D
[02:03] <vorian> i would
[02:04] <vorian> sheesh, we have 4.2.3 next week eh?
[02:04] <vorian> and 4.3 beta the following week
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> yep
[02:04] <vorian> awesome
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> we're gonna wanna get some merges in before then though...
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> my poor CPU
[02:05] <vorian> eeew
[02:06] <vorian> why not wait till post 4.2.3 to merge, then karmic should be good to go
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> before KDE 4.3 anything
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> is what I meant to say
[02:07] <vorian> ah, good :)
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> oh
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> also come to think of it I made kdeplasma-addons depend on kdewallpapers and kdebase-workspace-wallpapers in trunk :D
[02:08] <vorian> ha!
[02:08] <JontheEchidna> not a hard dependency, but you'll get a lot of  not weather wallpapes if you don't have those
[02:08] <vorian> actually, why even bother with merging 4.2* in karmic? why not just jump into 4.3?
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> you mean, wait for 4.3 of some sort to hit debian, then merge?\
[02:09] <vorian> yes
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> I like the sound of that
[02:09] <vorian> since 4.3 will be the focus etc... :)
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> that way we don't have to worry so much about rebuilding 40 times for .install changes
[02:10] <vorian> right-o
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> which is why it took us 2 weeks to do this last time
[02:10] <vorian> haha
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> we were a week late, if I remember
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> and it was my first time as ninja coordinator
[02:11] <Gon> [20:59] <JontheEchidna> lol? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu
[02:11] <Gon> [20:59] * JontheEchidna points at the Kubuntu desktop  pic
[02:11] <Gon> [21:00] <JontheEchidna> Since when did we become Kubundora?
[02:11] <Gon> WTF!
[02:13] <jjesse> back to that wikpedia picture, whose desktop is that?  doesn't look at all like mine
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> It's definitely not default
[02:14] <ScottK> I'd merge 4.2.2 (since we know it's the same version), skip 4.2.3 for Karmic (just jaunty-proposed), and go straight to the 4.3 beta in Karmic.
[02:14] <nixternal> why do puppies decide to go to the bathroom right under the computer desk?
[02:14] <vorian> cuz it's warm and safe
[02:15] <JontheEchidna> I should post my desktop w/ the Dark Knight skydome on wikipedia :D
[02:15] <ScottK> Because that's where they get your attention and attention == love even if you're yelling.
[02:15] <JontheEchidna> s/desktop/desktop cube
[02:15]  * vorian likes his current desktop
[02:15] <vorian> http://machine-crusade.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/foo.png
[02:16] <jjesse> nixternal: don't you beet them?
[02:16] <nixternal> I need to
[02:16]  * ScottK wonders how vegetables got into the conversation?
[02:16] <jjesse> vorian: i get a blank file whne i click on your destkop link
[02:16] <nixternal> heh, just caught that
[02:16] <jjesse> me too
[02:16] <vorian> oh?
[02:17] <jjesse> ah now it shows up
[02:17] <vorian> ah, ok :)
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> vorian: which plasma theme is that?
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> reminds me of KDE 4.0 in a good way
[02:17] <vorian> oxyglass more
[02:17]  * JontheEchidna always did like that glass ring around the plasmoids in 4.0
[02:17] <vorian> yes!
[02:18] <vorian> that was the best
[02:18] <jjesse> oxyglass?
[02:18] <vorian> although, the kewlness on the kicker is the stasks plasmoid
[02:18] <Gon> [21:17] <vorian> oxyglass more <= beatiful theme
[02:18] <Gon> is my current theme :D
[02:19] <vorian> ^5 Gon
[02:19] <vorian> :)
[02:19] <jjesse> ooo oxyglass looks nice :)
[02:19] <vorian> it's 'oxyglass more'
[02:19] <Gon> without compositing looks nice too
[02:19] <vorian> there are like 3 oxyglass themes iirc
[02:20]  * vorian steals cake whilst everyone is looking for new themes
[02:26] <jjesse> is there a widget that shows my tasks from kontact?
[02:32] <nixternal> stasks needs to fix its memory leaks before I try it again
[02:32] <nixternal> it was the reason my laptop kept locking up
[02:35] <jjesse> ah
[02:35] <joshjtl> hey folks... anyone recommend a tag editor for audio files? (kde4 prefferably)
[02:41] <ScottK> vorian: Great post.  Thanks.
[02:41] <vorian> no man, thank you
[02:42] <Gon> a question...
[02:43] <Gon> why kdepimlibs5-dev has libboost as dependency?
[02:43] <ScottK> seele: Are you connected with http://www.wouwlabs.com/blogs/anniec/?p=30 project at all?
[02:43] <ScottK> Gon: Because kdepimlibs builds against boost so you'll want those headers available too.
[02:44] <Gon> :o
[02:57] <nhandler> vorian: Sorry about the gnome script, but I needed something to make my gnome desktop more useful while restricted to an ubuntu live cd
[03:02] <ScottK> I totally can't believe no one has mentioned that the comics widget has lolcats now.
[03:11] <ScottK> OK, so here's an interesting problem ....  When I click on the K menu, only the bottom millimeter or two and a little square in the upper right/left corner appears.  I tried shutdown/restart and it's still there.
[03:17] <Sir-Gon> theme fail?
[03:21] <ScottK> Sorted it.
[03:21] <ScottK> Switched to classic menu style and switched back.
[04:07] <JontheEchidna> whoa, neat: http://leogg.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/ubuntu-cd-labels/
[04:09] <nixternal> http://matthew.gwos.org <- is that even possible?
[04:09] <vorian> DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:10] <vorian> nixternal: do you want a free ipod?
[04:11] <nixternal> nope
[04:12] <nixternal> I am sure there is some poor sap at starbucks who might want one though
[04:12] <vorian> /hilight http://matthew.gwos.org
[04:13]  * vorian has almost a dozen links to the same damn destination
[04:14] <vorian> i should have known better, as it's gwos.org
[04:15] <nixternal> ya, I just learned about that myself
[04:15] <nixternal> nhandler got me with one that was even worse than being rick rolled
[04:15] <vorian> does it go "HEY EVERYONE! I'M LOOKING AT ....."
[04:15] <nixternal> nhandler: oh dude, I am so adding that to my presentation for saturday....everyone can follow along by going to http://matthew.gwos.org
[04:15] <nixternal> vorian: yup
[04:15] <vorian> haha
[04:16] <ScottK> This is one time I'm glad for Quassel's web link preview function.
[04:16] <nhandler> nixternal: I have my own subdomain there ;)
[04:16] <vorian> good old kingbahamhut
[04:16] <nhandler> vorian: I would have expected you to recognize a ck link by now
[04:16] <vorian> yup
[04:16]  * vorian is getting sluggish
[04:18] <vorian> I need to change my hackergotchi
[06:56]  * a|wen want the new aptitude
[06:56] <a|wen> Aptitude::ProblemResolver::Hints { "reject pulseaudio"; };
[06:56] <a|wen> that's the feature i'm missing :)
[06:56] <Quintasan>  :D
[06:56] <Quintasan> Hi btw. :D
[06:58] <a|wen> hi Quintasan
[06:58] <a|wen> you're iso-testing?
[06:59] <a|wen> :)
[07:14] <sime_> the upgrade killed apt-cacher-ng here...
[07:31] <blizzz> mh, again flash videos do lack sound :(
[07:33] <nukem2525> is there going to be an upgrade path between 8.04 w/ KDE3 and 9.04 w/ KDE3 or will it require a fresh install?
[07:46] <a|wen> kb9vqf: i think you're the only one able to answer that one ^^
[08:02] <a|wen> nukem2525: he doesn't seem to be around atm. I think you'll have to wait till he shows up
[08:03]  * a|wen hugs vorian
[08:03] <a|wen> great post :)
[08:03] <nukem2525> any idea about his normal hours?
[08:10] <tsimpson> I would guess that it would require a patched dist-upgrade tool to go from 8.04 -> 9.04
[08:11] <nukem2525> what are the odds of one being made availible?
[08:11] <tsimpson> depends on how many people know how to do it and how long that'll take to make
[08:12] <tsimpson> it'd be a little complex because it'd need to know the package translation path
[08:12] <tsimpson> so (some-kde-package) -> (some-kde-package)-kde3
[08:13] <tsimpson> but I don't know enough about the remix to say for sure how easy/difficult that'd be
[08:13] <nukem2525> Ill probably end up doing a fresh install anyway
[08:13] <nukem2525> I messed up a couple things im to lazy to fix
[08:14] <nukem2525> now I just need to decide whether im willing to try KDE4 again
[08:14] <nukem2525> or not
[08:16] <a|wen> nukem2525: when was the last time you tried it?
[08:16] <nukem2525> i tried 4.0 and 4.1
[08:17] <a|wen> nukem2525: a great deal has happened till 4.2 ... anything particularly problematic?
[08:18] <nukem2525> the network manager blew up several times
[08:18] <nukem2525> random X crashes
[08:19] <a|wen> did you try the intrepid release; or the 4.0.0 / 4.1.0 versions?
[08:19] <nukem2525> 8.10
[08:19] <nukem2525> when it first released it had 4.0 right?
[08:20] <a|wen> nukem2525: it had 4.1.2 upon release
[08:20] <a|wen> it's at 4.1.4 now
[08:20] <nukem2525> kk, I tried that as well as the 8.04 KDE4 remix
[08:21] <a|wen> nukem2525: okay ... the hardy remix cd was really only for early adopters; after that kde4 has matured a lot
[08:22] <a|wen> nukem2525: you can always give it a try ... live-cd's are a great invention in that regarg
[08:22] <nukem2525> ya I knew when I went in that the remix wouldn't be very stable but I was a bit disappointed after I had so many issues with 8.10
[08:24] <nukem2525> I had it on 2 machines and both messed up pretty bad
[08:24] <a|wen> it has been working out great for me ... no problems with crashes or anything
[08:25] <a|wen> but with kde 4.2.2 i'd say that kde is now ready for everybody
[08:27] <nukem2525> Ill give it another shot but the only thing im looking for that KDE3 doesn't provide is Amarok 2
[08:30] <a|wen> yeah; amarok2 is great :)
[08:31] <nukem2525> Ive been banging my head against the desk trying to compile it on my mac since it came out
[08:33] <a|wen> that does also sound like a challenge
[08:34] <nukem2525> Ive talked to the macports maintainer about updating the port but they are still using an old version
[08:34] <nukem2525> so Ive been trying to do it myself
[08:36] <a|wen> what i've heard, kde compiling on mac should still be a lot of tweaked, just to get something out of it
[08:37] <nukem2525> I had no problem with KDE, I used macports to install 4.2
[08:40] <a|wen> when it is in macports it's another story
[09:45]  * a|wen just talked to a friend that has upgraded from 8.10 to 9.04 ... everything just went smooth for her!
[09:51] <rickspencer3> a|wen: sweet!
[09:51] <a|wen> it looks good
[11:14] <a|wen> omg! what a speed-gain you can have in some of the apps by using "--graphicssytem raster"
[11:20] <ryanakca> nixternal: How did help.kubuntu.org go? Anything left to do?
[11:40] <ScottK> All the upgrades have gone smoothly here, including one 8.04 to 9.04
[11:41] <Riddell> awooga
[11:43] <Tm_T> hooray (:
[11:44] <ScottK> Riddell: One nit that doesn't appear to hurt anything is that the 8.04 -> 9.04 upgrade ended up with guidance-power-manager installed.
[11:54] <ScottK> Someone is working on a release announcement for Kubuntu, right? claydoh?
[12:00] <Riddell> ScottK: hrm, that should be removed in the final upgrade stage
[12:00] <Riddell> release announcement is mostly https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JauntyJackalope/RC/Kubuntu turned into html for kubuntu.org
[12:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Maybe it was and I missed it.  I'll double check next time I have access to the machine.
[12:00] <Riddell> I'm about to do upgrade tests too
[12:01] <ScottK> Riddell: We just need to settle on a URL and make sure slangasek has it to include in his announcement.
[12:01] <ScottK> Ah. I see you already took care of it.
[12:02] <Riddell> the easy part I did, take more effort to actually write the html :)
[12:03] <ScottK> Well you also took care of the part it's impossible to fix after the fact.
[12:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: we need more KDEing anyway :P
[12:29] <apachelogger> hm
[12:29] <apachelogger> uh
[12:29] <apachelogger> ah
[12:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, nhandler: how about denting+weather?
[12:29] <apachelogger> magic plasma and magic KDE microblogging lib should make that a charm
[12:29] <apachelogger> then again, why bother with having the dents on one's desktop when you can has $plasmoid
[12:30] <apachelogger> oh dear
[12:30] <apachelogger> Nightrose: i386 build of amarok-nightly 20090421+svn956946-0neon1 in ubuntu intrepid RELEASE
[12:30] <apachelogger>  Build started 44 minutes ago on thallium (virtual) and finished 16 minutes ago taking 27 minutes
[12:31] <Nightrose> wohoooooooooooooooo
[12:31]  * Nightrose hugs apachelogger
[12:31] <apachelogger> try
[12:31] <apachelogger> then
[12:31] <apachelogger> hug
[12:31] <Nightrose> haha
[12:31] <Nightrose> ok
[12:31] <Riddell> the liblastfm issue is going to be a problem with Amarok :(
[12:31] <Nightrose> Riddell: rex dieter already mentioned it and Leo is aware of it
[12:32] <Nightrose> he'll try to find out what can be done about it
[12:32] <Riddell> ah, good
[12:51] <claydoh> ScottK: yes I am, though not quite so early in the am ;)
[12:52] <Nightrose> apachelogger: http://pastebin.com/d789ae658
[12:54] <claydoh> i would like some input from you folks on what you think should be highlighted in the notes, even the little things
[12:55] <claydoh> I have a decent sized list already, but think I will miss something you think is important
[13:19] <apachelogger> Nightrose: force-overwrite
[13:19]  * apachelogger needs to head back to work
[13:20] <Sput> amarok is a nightmare for packagers :>
[13:30] <ScottK> claydoh: Excellent.  Just making sure we didn't forget.
[13:34] <claydoh> ScottK: no, we didn't forget, though rockbox is distracting me so i have to put it away
[13:47] <rmrfslash> Does anyone know if the radeonhd 1.2.5 driver is going to be released with or before the final Kubuntu 9.04? Supposedly this version addresses resume-from-ram video issues.
[13:47] <ScottK> rmrfslash: 9.04 will be released with what it has now.
[13:48] <rmrfslash> I see.
[13:48] <ScottK> We're at the "unless the world is going to explode or someone will get sued, no more changes" stage.
[13:49] <rmrfslash> That's a good state to be in
[13:49] <rmrfslash> Is the version that's in 9.04 now going to stay that way until 9.10 or...?
[13:49] <rmrfslash> Are these subject to upgrades
[13:51] <a|wen> rmrfslash: patches can be added; but complete version upgrades of radeonhd is not likely
[13:51] <ScottK> After release, we only change for security fixes or major issues.  The rules for non-security updates are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/
[13:52] <a|wen> rmrfslash: have you looked at the radeon driver in itself? don't know which gfx-card you have, but it might have caught up with it
[13:52] <rmrfslash> bummer
[13:58] <Nightrose> apachelogger: already done that of course ;-)  just wanted to let you know
[14:33] <Riddell> ScottK: you're right about guidance-p-m, asking mvo
[14:33] <Riddell> New DVDs are up for testing!  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/dvd/20090421.1/
[14:40] <Riddell> ScottK: bug 364620
[16:50] <claydoh> Riddell: ScottK do we want to have download mirrors listed in the release notes? I noticed we did not do so for Intrepid
[16:52] <Riddell> claydoh: no since we put them on kubuntu.org and it has a download page (with a magicially updating list of mirrors)
[16:52] <Riddell> so we just point to that
[16:52] <claydoh> cool, I thaought as much
[16:56] <claydoh> Riddell: any personal fave jaunty feature you have, that you want mentioned?
[17:01] <claydoh> lol accidental ctrl-alt-backspace
[17:02] <nukem2525> will there be an upgrade path between 8.04 w/ KDE3 and 9.04 w/ KDE3 or will it require a fresh install?
[17:03] <Riddell> claydoh: system-config-printer-kde has been incorporated into system settings and improved
[17:04] <Quintasan> I wonder why Details >> button is disable in KPackageKit while downloading and installing
[17:04] <Riddell> nukem2525: yes https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades/Kubuntu/8.04 testing welcome
[17:05] <nukem2525> that will preserve KDE3?
[17:07] <Riddell> nukem2525: well no, it will upgrade to 9.04
[17:08] <nukem2525> what Im asking is if I can upgrade to the 9.04 KDE3 remix
[17:08] <Riddell> nope
[17:08] <nukem2525> awww
[17:08] <Riddell> could try your luck with a dist-upgrade I suppose
[17:08] <nukem2525> I suppose I would have to manually select packages?
[17:09] <Riddell> yes
[17:09] <nukem2525> I suppose I can give KDE4 another shot
[17:10] <Riddell> good choice :)
[17:38] <Tscheesy> Riddell : i have Probs with the DVD-Download, got two times an error at the very last moment.. something like File Access Error, then when i try to resume - it restarts - in FF with and without Downloadmanager
[17:52] <Riddell> Tscheesy: use rsync
[17:52] <Riddell> see KubuntuFiles
[17:53] <Tscheesy> i'll give it another try - so i asume it works in principle
[18:00] <Riddell> Tscheesy: are you using rsync?
[18:01] <Tscheesy> actually  -the old one got overwritten with a restart
[18:08]  * Riddell updates https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades/Kubuntu and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JauntyUpgrades/Kubuntu/8.04 for final
[18:11] <Riddell> claydoh: do you know what happened to kubuntu forums in the end?
[18:12] <claydoh> no, not sure if the owner even found out, but the host fixed it
[18:13] <Riddell> claydoh: do you admin access to kubuntu-users?
[18:13] <claydoh> after a smart member figured out where it was hosted, contacted them directly
[18:13] <claydoh> Riddell: no I don't have it
[18:14] <Riddell> claydoh: not my choice of password :)
[18:14] <claydoh> lol
[18:14] <claydoh> works for me
[18:14] <Riddell> claydoh: is the kubuntuforums admin is still active?
[18:15] <claydoh> not much, afaik
[18:15] <Riddell> hmm, that's a bit worrying
[18:16] <claydoh> I am pretty much the only one doing much, it doesn't need any modersting much
[18:16] <claydoh> if that made any sense
[18:19] <Riddell> claydoh: mm, but not a great idea to have a website hosted by someone who doesn't seem to care much if it disappears
[18:19] <Riddell> Tscheesy: rsync -CvzapP --stats rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/dvd/current/jaunty-dvd-i386.iso .
[18:19] <Tscheesy> thx - was hackin' here :D
[18:20] <claydoh> Riddell: I agree, esp as he seems to travel a lot, makes it hard to contact him
[18:38] <claydoh> Riddell: I don't have any printer config options in my system settings am I missing something?
[18:42] <JontheEchidna> claydoh: I think it may have somehow slipped back to the advanced tab :(
[18:43] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: I don't have it there either
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> I should commit the change for placing it in the General tab to trunk now that I have commit access
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> claydoh: weird
[18:43]  * claydoh needs screenshots
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> how inconvenient, pastebin.ca  is down
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6466/49735984.png
[18:47] <claydoh> ahhh gwenview (and digika are sooooo filled with awesomeness
[18:49] <Riddell> Subject: SERIOUSLY--TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST!
[18:49] <Riddell> claydoh: may be a good opportunity to use your kubuntu-users powers :)
[18:49] <Riddell> From: Kayt Free<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:50] <Riddell> "   Getting these constant e-mails is really pissing me off...TAKE ME OFF
[18:50] <Riddell>    YOUR LIST! I've asked at least three times now!
[18:50] <Riddell> "
[18:50] <Riddell> I wonder if she wants off the list
[18:52] <daskreech> JontheEchidna: can I assume it's raining where you are?
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> daskreech: yeah
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> and it was so warm the last few days to :( (relatively speaking)
[18:54] <claydoh> I removed and reinstalled systemsettings, and now get the printer config, only have this
[18:54] <claydoh> http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1368/85614026.png
[18:55] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: I don' have as many buttons on mine, feeling shortchanged :)
[18:55] <JontheEchidna> that's because the hardware driver one is only on my computer
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> and it doesn't do anything to boot
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> well, anythign useful
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> aside from crashing systemsettings
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> you could also install kgrubeditor
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> kcron for the task scheduler
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> kdenetwork-filesharing for samba
[18:57] <claydoh> Riddell: assuming that email was to you? maybe sent before I added my email to the admin list
[18:58] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: ill just use the defaults for my screenshot :)
[18:58] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: thought I had sometthing busted here
[18:58] <JontheEchidna> nah
[19:07] <Riddell> claydoh: to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:09] <claydoh> Riddell: her email is not in the member list for kubuntu-users
[19:12] <claydoh>  but I had mailman send an unsub confirmation
[19:12] <claydoh> to the address
[19:13] <Riddell> claydoh: could be googlemail.com ?
[19:14] <claydoh> not as far as I can see
[19:38] <Mr_Grieves|> Hrm, knetworkmanager doesn't start on its own anymore.
[19:39] <Mr_Grieves|> Short of adding it to the autostart config file, is there a setting to fix that?
[19:39] <blizzz> JontheEchidna: did you get my email?
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> blizzz: oh, right. I forgot about that :)
[19:40] <blizzz> well then, this is a reminder :)
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> I did look over it, but I just forgot to get back to you guys
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> where it says "It turned (OUT?) a somewhat-obscure"
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> turned could probably be changed to "transformed" for clarity
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> otherwise it looks great
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> Using my LP picture is fine too. I should really think about updating it, though, since it was taken last july...
[19:43] <blizzz> 23th 'd be a good date for a new one ;)
[19:44] <blizzz> thank for inspecting it
[19:46] <blizzz> +s
[20:03] <Quintasan> ok guysm night, wish me luck :3
[20:03] <Quintasan> -m
[20:08] <blizzz> good luck Quintasan
[20:21] <rmrfslash> Hey guys. I was on earlier to ask whether or not there would be a radeonhd driver update between 9.04 and 9.10. I was told by someone (I forgot whom) that "patches will be applied but complete upgrades were unlikely". Obviously, I was disheartened a little as the radeonhd 1.2.5 supposedly fixes some resume issues. Now, after looking around, I found this page: https://launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/+a
[20:21] <rmrfslash> rchive/ppa
[20:22] <claydoh> yup, those are testing packages , won't be official
[20:23] <claydoh> but helpful for those who want/need to be on the edge :)
[20:24] <rmrfslash> On this guys page, there is a deb for radeonhd 1.2.5 for Jaunty and was published 22 hours ago. I installed it, it at least doesn't break things and Xorg.0.log shows that RADEONHD is version 1.2.5. Does tis mean there is a update in the works for Jaunty?
[20:24] <claydoh> no
[20:24] <claydoh> ppa= *personal* package archive
[20:24] <rmrfslash> i c
[20:25] <claydoh> but often they are quite stable and very useful
[20:25] <claydoh> esp in your case it seems :)
[20:27] <rmrfslash> yeah, it works... I have yet to see if it'll resume properly. Though this version was supposed to address that specifically (among other things).
[20:28] <rmrfslash> and was one of the major problems I was experiencing
[20:28] <rmrfslash> and couldn't circumvent
[20:28] <rmrfslash> anyways... im happy.
[20:28] <rmrfslash> :D
[20:31] <claydoh> someone has an itch to scratch, and someone provides the back-scratching stick for it :)
[20:33] <kb9vqf> nukem2525: Not sure if you're still around, but here's what you can do: 1. Copy your ~/.kde folder to ~/.kde3  2. Do the upgrade normally  3. Install kubuntu-desktop-kde3 4. Remove the KDE4 packages that got installed in the upgrade (optional)
[20:33] <kb9vqf> nukem2525: I'll put something on the Wiki page before final
[20:45] <jefferai> apachelogger: ping
[20:45] <apachelogger> jefferai: pong
[20:45] <jefferai> hey, so in your release script
[20:45] <jefferai> you know how you append the include directives for po and doc at the end of CMakeLists.txt?
[20:46] <jefferai> how easy it is to substitute those directives for lines already in the CMakeLists.txt file?
[20:47] <apachelogger> jefferai: easy enough
[20:47] <apachelogger> just need to wrap it in an if($lines present)
[20:47] <jefferai> nah, don't
[20:48] <jefferai> I'll just put in a comment like this:
[20:48] <jefferai> #DOC_INCLUDE
[20:48] <jefferai> #PO_INCLUDE
[20:48] <jefferai> and replace those with add_subdirectory(doc), etc.
[20:48] <jefferai> does that sound easy enough?
[20:49] <apachelogger> jefferai: the problem is that you don't want to use kde's macro for optional sub dir?
[20:49] <jefferai> well, is there a point?
[20:50] <jefferai> I guess that's even better
[20:50] <apachelogger> one might not want to install docs or po ... but especially docs if they are big
[20:50] <jefferai> ok
[20:50] <jefferai> I'll do that
[20:50] <jefferai> I'll make them toggleable
[20:50] <jefferai> and you can take it out of the release script entirely
[20:51] <apachelogger> jefferai: I am really missing context here ... are we talking about amarok or what?
[20:51] <jefferai> yep
[20:51] <apachelogger> well, it needs to stay in the script
[20:51] <jefferai> why?
[20:51] <apachelogger> not only amarok uses that script :P
[20:52] <jefferai> OK, then, it needs to not go at the end of the file
[20:52] <jefferai> and/or not use the KDE optional macros
[20:52] <apachelogger> jefferai: doesn't amarok include KDE's macros?
[20:52] <jefferai> take a look at the CMakeLists.txt file
[20:52] <apachelogger> okies
[20:53] <jefferai> note that KDE deps are only in the WITH_PLAYER section
[20:53] <jefferai> if you're building the utilities, there are no KDE dependencies
[20:53] <apachelogger> ahhhhh
[20:53] <jefferai> except for the KDE macros you introduced with the release script, that is :-)
[20:53] <apachelogger> jefferai: both the po and the docs need KDE macros anyway
[20:53] <jefferai> exactly...so the release script should probably put those macro calls in the WITH_PLAYER section
[20:54] <jefferai> by substituting in for a known value
[20:55] <jefferai> that sound doable?
[20:55] <apachelogger> aye
[20:55] <apachelogger> sec
[20:55] <jefferai> k
[21:11] <apachelogger> the l10n stuff is 100% hack
[21:11] <apachelogger> good thing the refactored version comes with a lot better design
[21:13] <jefferai> apachelogger: so should I modify anything in the Amarok CMakeLists?
[21:13] <apachelogger> jefferai: add the comments you mentioned earlier
[21:13] <jefferai> any specific names?
[21:14] <jefferai> apachelogger: I'll call them DOC_SUBDIR and PO_SUBDIR
[21:15] <jefferai> apachelogger: here's what I put into CMakeLists.txt
[21:15] <jefferai>     #Do not remove or modify these.  The release script substitutes in for these
[21:15] <jefferai>     #comments as appropriate.
[21:15] <jefferai>     #DOC_SUBDIR
[21:15] <jefferai>     #PO_SUBDIR
[21:17] <apachelogger> meh
[21:17] <apachelogger> I already made the script use _INCLUDE :P
[21:18] <apachelogger> pushy pushy
[21:18] <jefferai> can you change it?
[21:18] <jefferai> it makes more sense to put SUBDIR
[21:19] <jefferai> Sorry
[21:19] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+junk/extragear-release-script
[21:19] <apachelogger> r38 and r39 if you want to apply it manually
[21:20] <jefferai> apply what?
[21:20] <apachelogger> the changes
[21:20] <jefferai> to where?
[21:20] <apachelogger> your source copy
[21:20] <jefferai> nope
[21:20] <jefferai> :-)
[21:20] <apachelogger> you never know
[21:20] <jefferai> not here
[21:20] <jefferai> but anyways
[21:20] <jefferai> changes in CMakeLists.txt in r957327
[21:23] <apachelogger> hm
[21:24] <apachelogger> that looks broken to me
[21:25] <apachelogger> jefferai: can you swap the order
[21:25] <apachelogger> po currently pulls in the include, if doc is add before the include it probably will make cmake cry
[21:26] <apachelogger> jefferai: or add another comment
[21:26] <apachelogger> #SUBDIR_INCLUDE
[21:26] <jefferai> ok
[21:26] <jefferai> wait what?
[21:27] <jefferai> I swapped the order
[21:27] <apachelogger> ok, works as well
[21:28] <apachelogger> works like a charm
[21:32] <jefferai> great
[21:32] <jefferai> thanks
[21:33] <kb9vqf> nukem2525: The instructions for Hardy-->Jaunty KDE3.5 are up on the Jaunty KDE3 Wiki page
[21:35] <apachelogger> jefferai: you're very welcome
[21:41] <_sime> upgrade to 9.04 went well here.
[22:11] <Tscheesy> Riddell : DVD is nice ..when Stopping -6 Warning-Messages for Open TTY1-6 Pop up .. and WLAN-Manager is not processing the WPA-KEY
[22:13] <Tscheesy> next to missing translations.. but the spoken Blogging about would also help me to get, next time, all the translation documents into local community
[22:16] <Riddell> hhhh
[22:17] <Riddell> Tscheesy: ok, please report on the http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all site
[22:17] <Riddell> _sime: great
[22:19] <Tscheesy> Riddell : do i have a Ubuntu QA Username ? Guess not? isn't it LP or openID?
[22:20] <Tscheesy> i'll create a new one
[22:20] <Riddell> you need to create one
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> we don't support gutsy -> jaunty updates, do we?
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> you have to upgrade to hardy first
[22:26] <dtchen> you're skipping intrepid as a required step for hardy->jaunty?
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> we do support hardy -> jaunty
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> in Kubuntu at least
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> but am I correct in assuming that gutsy -> jaunty is completely unsupported?
[22:27] <dtchen> ok, then yes, you are correct
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[22:28] <Tscheesy> Riddell : this page is tricky for me - You are here : QA Tracker -> Test list -> Result list : i just fill in a comment and Mark as failed?
[22:28] <Tscheesy> in "live session"
[22:29] <Tscheesy> accoring http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopLiveSession of curse..
[22:36] <Tscheesy> done
[22:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: right no gutsy upgrade to jaunty
[23:00] <apachelogger> we need a QA supervisor dood
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> What would this dood do?
[23:02] <Tscheesy> weight Bug-Reports..
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> triagers weigh bug reports, technically
[23:04] <apachelogger> assign QA tasks and spend most of his time doing QA
[23:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also, technically the triager might do that, but most of the time they will be wrong anyway, unless triager == developer in which case it is assumable that they actually rate the impact of an issue properly
[23:06] <apachelogger> well, if they understand the problem at least ;-)
[23:06] <JontheEchidna> in other words, a triager like me? :P
[23:06] <davmor2> Tscheesy: why did you file your kubuntu issue against ubuntu dvd?  and you've listed bug 1,2,3 on lp as bugs rather then the lp bug number for your issues
[23:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you do unfriendly triage though :P
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[23:07] <apachelogger> hm
[23:07] <apachelogger> someone poke stdin in the eye for that flood
[23:07] <Tscheesy> davmor2 : omg - i didnt know ther's a link - it seemd so..
[23:08] <apachelogger> anyway
[23:08] <jpds> apachelogger: -> tsimpson
[23:08] <apachelogger> we need to do like more promotion for testing
[23:08] <apachelogger> or rather more promotion in general
[23:08] <apachelogger> but especially testing
[23:08] <apachelogger> like we need iso testing and desktop testing and app testing and upgrade testing and translation testing...
[23:09] <apachelogger> in a more organized matter that is of course
[23:09] <Tscheesy> davmor2 : cann you wipe it out? i'll write it new tomorrow
[23:09] <davmor2> Tscheesy: It should of been filed again Kubuntu Dvd.  And where it says bug you put in the lp bug number of the issue for future reference :)
[23:10] <davmor2> Tscheesy: I can't but I know a man that can
[23:10] <Tscheesy> ok :( - good
[23:10]  * apachelogger would think that a user can wipe his own entries :S
[23:11] <Tscheesy> yes - but i need to file 3 LP-Bugs first ;)
[23:13] <davmor2> apachelogger: Nope one down side of the way the tracker has been setup.  Something that will hopefully be remedied for karmic
[23:13] <apachelogger> hope so
[23:14] <Tscheesy> davmor2 : so? Bug Nb 1 isnt' appropriate ? :D.. i'll have to do it tomorrow
[23:15] <davmor2> Tscheesy: No! :D
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: do these observations still hold up? http://www.flickr.com/photos/19616885@N00/3460206354/in/set-72157608562200171/
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> Alt+Left is untranslated for me in spanish, but everything else looks ok
[23:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yes
[23:17] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: though the locale kcm is not translated anyway
[23:17] <apachelogger> it will default to en_US unless the KDE specific setting is set
[23:17] <apachelogger> which should probably be changed
[23:17] <apachelogger> actually
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> looks pretty spanish here to me
[23:17] <apachelogger> the whole language setting there is worth a load of nothing
[23:17] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: only if set through the kcm
[23:17] <apachelogger> your testcase is flawed
[23:18] <apachelogger> I am wondering if rosetta broke the dolphin strings though
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> so if Ihave es set as your lang at install time, I'd see untransalted strings too?
[23:18] <apachelogger> aye
[23:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: just use language-selector to change the system language and nuke Language(s)= from kdeglobals
[23:19] <apachelogger> or create a new user instead of the latter
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> ugh, qt-language-selector was never renamed language-selector-kde
[23:22] <Tscheesy> davmor2 : changed to a (hopefully) tmp state :/
[23:24] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: is the trash kcm also untranslated when accessed from konqueror?
[23:25] <apachelogger> yes, no, kinda
[23:25] <apachelogger> the item itself is named properly (desktop file??) but the days thingy is still there
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> hmmmmm
[23:25] <apachelogger> ... I think days is actually a kdelibs termy
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> they both use the same kcm, I wonder why that's happening
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> oh
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> +    // Trash
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> +    TrashSettingsPage* trashSettingsPage = new TrashSettingsPage(this);
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> +    KPageWidgetItem* trashSettingsFrame = addPage(trashSettingsPage,
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> +                                                   i18nc("@title:group", "Trash"));
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> I guess it didn't get translated in LP...
[23:27] <apachelogger> that is from use, isn't it?
[23:27] <apachelogger> *us
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I backported it from trunk
[23:28] <davmor2> Tscheesy: that'll do for now :)
[23:28] <apachelogger> *nod*
[23:28] <apachelogger> at this point I would not change any string at all since there is a high possibility it will not get translated
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> It should use the same KCM, but it uses its own string for adding it to dolphin's settings
[23:30] <Tscheesy> davmor2 : uf.. X) ..need my sleep now.. by all
[23:30] <davmor2> bye
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I did add this a month or few ago, but I guess this is also a consequence of us pissing off the german doods?
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> (our patches don't get translated)
[23:30] <apachelogger> I think there are more languages affected than german really
[23:31] <apachelogger> I just happen to know that we pissed them off pretty badly
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> so the question becomes, how the  heck are we gonna get people to translate any of our patches at all in the future?
[23:33]  * JontheEchidna goes to eat
[23:33] <apachelogger> a) talk to them
[23:33] <apachelogger> b) help them
[23:33] <apachelogger> c) beat up rosetta
[23:33] <apachelogger> d) if rosetta doesn't die or become a lot better after beating - not using it
[23:34] <apachelogger> all in all: ensure that translations never ever break for more than a couple of days, and certainly not while the translation related freezes are in effect
[23:36] <JontheEchidna> I am thinking that somebody should probably blog about this either today or tomorrow
[23:37]  * apachelogger will certainly rant about rosetta sometime soon
[23:38] <davmor2> Riddell: I'm off to bed now if there are any kub dvd test left in the morning I'll pick them up :)
[23:39] <JontheEchidna> I mean, blog about the general state of translations for Kubuntu 9.04, dispell some common myths, lay out the plan for the future, etc
[23:39]  * JontheEchidna really goes off to eat now
[23:40] <apachelogger> what myths?
[23:40] <apachelogger> kubuntu l10n is breaking every once in a while
[23:40] <apachelogger> kubuntu l10n stays broken for at least a month
[23:40] <apachelogger> kubuntu l10n is of so crappy quality it hurts to even think about it
[23:40] <apachelogger> not to mention the interface that has to be used
[23:40]  * apachelogger shudders
[23:52] <JontheEchidna> mainly that Kubuntu doesn't use upstream translations
[23:53] <apachelogger> we do
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> exactly
[23:53] <apachelogger> unless rosetta didn't import it
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> right
[23:54] <apachelogger> or exported it in a broken matter
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> that too
[23:54] <apachelogger> or some funky launchpad dood thought it would be a good idea to change the translation
[23:54] <apachelogger> make it overriden for now and forever
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> shit, they can do that?
[23:54] <apachelogger> now they can
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> :/
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> yeah, let's just mainly blast rosetta
[23:55] <apachelogger> thing is there is no additional QA needed to do that
[23:55] <apachelogger> nor is there a way to make those changed translations be overridden by $nextupstream import
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> how hard would it be to exclude rosetta entirely from the process?
[23:57] <Riddell> not possible
[23:58] <Riddell> and I quite like being able to add strings
[23:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: add strings?
[23:58] <apachelogger> + possible, just not desirable
[23:59] <JontheEchidna> in theory (maybe?) we could just throw all the po(t)s in a bzr branch and do things like upstream


[01:01] <diddledan> capitals ftl
[01:01] <diddledan> or should that be "FTL"?
[01:02] <daftykins> ;)
[01:29] <diddledan> I just found this: http://www.iflscience.com/space/free-flowing-water-discovered-equator-mars
[01:29] <diddledan> consider my mind well and truly blown
[05:32] <shauno> diddledan: you found water on mars?
[05:32] <diddledan> shauno: yeah
[05:33] <diddledan> shauno: obv I'm not the first to find it
[05:33] <shauno> That's going to ruin everything for me.  Now when an article says "scientists say" I'm going to assume they mean you
[07:31] <SuperMatt> word up peeps
[07:31] <Myrtti> oh noes
[07:31] <Myrtti> now I want to buy shoes :-|
[07:32] <SuperMatt> sorry
[07:32] <Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LU120-01-39/dp/B00F8MB6M6/
[07:32] <SuperMatt> those... are not pretty
[07:33] <Myrtti> would you rather in yellow?
[07:33] <SuperMatt> nope
[07:33] <SuperMatt> sorry
[07:33] <Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LUS123-78-40/dp/B00J2FB1TS ?
[07:33] <Myrtti> anyway, it's more about the functionality
[07:34] <Myrtti> they're not completely hideous like normal wellies, almost look like normal shoes, and not full length either
[07:35] <Myrtti> maybe with woollen socks they'd go for all terrain winter shoes in UK ;-)
[07:35]  * awilkins uses stompy military boots from Yorkshire as his daily shoe.
[07:36] <SuperMatt> I guess those second ones are more pretty
[07:36] <SuperMatt> I don't know, I'm just a guy
[07:36] <SuperMatt> I've got other things on my mind right now
[07:36] <awilkins> Guys can generally just get away with owning 2 or 3 pairs of shoes
[07:36] <Myrtti> awilkins: I just found http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokian-Footwear-Julia-Lundsten-LU120-01-39/dp/B00F8MB6M6/
[07:37] <awilkins> Holy potato
[07:38] <awilkins> I know someone who'd love those. But if I spend that on a pair of shoes I expect them to be useful for virtually everything...
[07:39] <Myrtti> awilkins: well, they are wellies, so they'd pretty much be useful for virtually everything. They aren't obviously wellies...
[07:40] <Myrtti> might pass as normal shoes?
[07:40] <awilkins> Hmm, maybe
[07:40] <Myrtti> and I've actually paid more for shoes than what those are
[07:40] <awilkins> Oh, likewise, but only once :-)
[07:41] <Myrtti> contrary to many people I know I actually spend £amounts to shoes that have not just looks but usability and quality too, not just a 5 inch heel and pretty colour
[07:42] <Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/3over7/the-wool-runners-no-socks-no-smell <--
[07:43] <awilkins> http://www.altberg.co.uk/product/warrior-aqua-black/   <- my current "shoes"
[07:44] <awilkins> The wooly shoes seem like a good idea
[07:45] <Myrtti> my kicks: http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/sksports1/407992-050_001_001.JPG
[08:01] <awilkins> See, they are veering into the territory of ostentatious
[08:01] <awilkins> I like my running shoes to be grey and nondescript and functional
[08:01] <Myrtti> I don't run :-P
[08:01] <awilkins> Which means that it's terribly difficult to actually find a pair that i) meets this requirement ii) fit iii) actually provide shock absorbance for running
[08:02] <awilkins> Last time I went shopping for runners I was gobsmacked by how LOUD they all ar
[08:02] <awilkins> e
[08:03] <awilkins> Backlight on my Windows laptop just failed. Thought this was impossible since it was an LED backlight.
[08:03] <awilkins> Suspect the graphics drivers are wrong.
[08:03] <bashrc> morning
[08:03] <Myrtti> ahhhhh bliss. Allergy medicine that works
[08:04] <awilkins> Very Strong Antihistamines?
[08:04] <awilkins> Topical corticosteroid spray?
[08:04] <Myrtti> no, just cetirizine, I just tried the other variants to see if they'd make me less groggy
[08:04] <Myrtti> that experiment failed because they didn't make me groggy but didn't work either
[08:15] <foobarry> so cetirizine > loratadine?
[08:15] <Myrtti> atleast in my use
[08:15] <foobarry> but make u tired
[08:16] <Myrtti> it's a coin toss
[08:16] <foobarry> email from google recruiter, with some funny copy pastes in a larger font
[08:17] <foobarry> coupled with your leadership qualities ($CURRENT EMPLOYER BIG FONT) looked relevant..
[08:17] <diddledan> foobarry: teh googles want to hire you?!
[08:18] <foobarry> rather google external recruiters are on a commission hunt
[08:18] <diddledan> aah
[08:33] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:33] <diddledan> allo
[08:35] <bashrc> had an email from a google recruiter about a year ago
[08:35] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:37] <diddledan> me too
[08:37] <diddledan> when I got around to actually responding the person appeared to have disappeared from google's mailserver
[08:37] <foobarry> lol
[08:37] <foobarry> recruiters be recruiters
[08:38] <foobarry> parasites somewhere in the region of estate agents
[08:38] <foobarry> but both above footballer's agents
[08:49] <diplo> Morning all
[09:05] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Iced Tea Day! :-D
[09:06] <directhex> iced tea sucks! iced coffee rules! woo!
[09:06] <bigcalm> I quite like estate agents - only because we're buying a house and not selling one :)
[09:07] <funkyHat> I would say that recruiters are a few rungs above estate agents
[09:12] <popey> dropped car off for MoT, walked back.. took an hour
[09:13] <popey> stopped off at the butcher to get some BBQ provisions along the way ☻
[09:13] <brobostigon> :)
[09:45] <cocoa117> after you changed the owner's belong group, how do you make it affect without actually logout?
[09:48] <popey> directhex: guessing that GTA5 will be "Windows" when it says "PC" in the Fall?
[09:48] <directhex> popey, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmostly guaranteed
[09:49] <directhex> popey, 2k, the publisher, are slowly on-board with steamos. but they're very hands-off with rockstar, and rockstar are not mac friendly. mac friendliness is a good indicator, in larger studios, of potential linux friendliness
[09:50] <popey> ☹
[09:53] <Laney> did they finally announce a ps4 release?
[09:55] <bigcalm> Anything exciting coming to the Wii U? :)
[09:56] <foobarry> $MARIO_GAME version=X++
[09:56] <Laney> Price: £64.99
[09:56] <Laney> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:00] <directhex> Laney, gta5? yes
[10:00] <directhex> bigcalm, nintendo's e3 presentation hasn't happened yet
[10:00] <Laney> yeah just found it
[10:01] <bigcalm> directhex: fair enough. I'm waiting for my Wii U to be delivered. Expecting Nintendo to go out of business once it gets here
[10:02] <directhex> the last game i properly played was on wiiu
[10:03] <directhex> and i have ac4 on wiiu to play
[10:08] <bigcalm> What's ac4?
[10:09] <Myrtti> Assassin's Creed
[10:09] <bigcalm> Ah
[10:09] <Myrtti> Assassin's Creed is brilliant.
[10:09] <bigcalm> They make "adult" games for the Wii?
[10:09] <Myrtti> I'm not sure how AC5 is going to pan out
[10:09] <Myrtti> the video of the gameplay they showed last night left me a bit bemused
[10:13] <popey> i was surprised the AI seemed dumb enough to let the player walk right up to all those soldiers
[10:14] <popey> No Man's Sky looks pretty
[10:14] <popey> I like open world type games, especially procedurally generated ones
[10:42] <directhex> bigcalm, attempts were made to make adult games for the wii, invariably they met financial disaster
[10:42] <directhex> bigcalm, e.g. check "madworld" on youtube
[10:42] <Myrtti> Assassin's Creed tho ♥
[10:50] <awilkins> No Man's Sky looks very ambitious, graphics style reminds me of Outcast
[10:51] <awilkins> If it's half as fun as the trailer it should be pretty fun
[11:04] <foobarry> remember that game spore?
[11:09] <davmor2> foobarry: the one with the rootkit?
[11:10] <awilkins> I remember Spore but never bought it
[11:13] <foobarry> lots of hype, nobody ever mentions it any more
[11:14] <foobarry> yeah i heard DRM killed it
[11:20] <bashrc> yeah it was a DRM-fest
[11:21] <bashrc> spore was disappointing and could have been a lot more interesting if they had real evolution going on
[11:21] <bashrc> i.e. a alife sumilation, but with a game element to it
[11:26] <popey> I quite like Godus
[13:15] <SuperEngineer> whooppee! at home for 2 days - doing a WBT thing but found out last night I can't log on till a remote prob gets sorted.
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> So last night I nerfed by home dir - proved it was useless - & overnight took the opportunity to see if not just my backup plan works, but my restore plan works.  It does!
[13:18] <SuperEngineer> So now I have taken the chance to remove 12.04 & separate home partition [with all restore proved] ;)
[13:18] <SuperEngineer> ...and I am now a 14.04 user!
[13:18] <bigcalm> Welcome to the club
[13:18] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: thanks
[13:20] <daftykins> i need to work out what all the changes are in samba since 10.04 at some point
[13:20] <daftykins> i tried to set up a test share on a system the other day to no avail X|
[13:21] <SuperEngineer> [only disappointment I have - outwighed by many "happies" though - is that I have come to rely on compiz Expo and shunting the mouse to one corner to show all workspaces... this looses it's "setting" after reboots [though it's still there in compiz manager so I have to reset it to the same as it was, doh!]
[13:23]  * SuperEngineer wtches progress bar for Steam install - & ponders wether to download the games again or hope the old steamapps folder will be recognised... nbah! let's make the broadbanddo some work] ;)
[13:24] <daftykins> is English not your mother tongue? ;)
[13:26] <foobarry> ok i been trying to read a pdf on screen for an hour and i'm on page 7
[13:26] <foobarry> fortunately there's a mobi to read on my ebook reader
[13:27] <foobarry> even swivelling the screen to portrait mode helped not.
[13:27] <daftykins> can be pretty easy to lose place on a screen eh?
[13:27] <foobarry> just not conducive for reading books
[13:27] <Myrtti> Fujifilm X-S1 on Amazon flash sale now for 225, if anyone's interested
[13:29] <daftykins> wow
[13:30] <daftykins> although i don't do cameras
[13:31] <Myrtti> I seem to just order weird stuff that I can't find anywhere else
[13:31] <Myrtti> and in bulk.
[13:32] <Myrtti> case in point my latest order
[13:33] <daftykins> a billion toilet paper rolls?
[13:33] <Myrtti> Citric Acid 1Kg Bulk Tub,  2 x Unibond 450g Humidity Absorber Power Tab Refills (Pack of 2), Gall soap (2 pcs. x 100 gr.), set of 5 baroque pearl elastic bracelets.
[13:34] <daftykins> wat
[13:34] <Myrtti> citric acid, for cleaning both the laundry and dish washing machines
[13:34] <Myrtti> humidity absorber tabs, because no diy store seems to stock them anymore
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: English most def is my mother [& father tongue - no sexism from me!] - keyboarding is unfortunately not always wonderful - used to be but following a r-e-a-l-l-y bad car crash yonks ago - I type one thing & sometimes it comes out as another thing - I have learned to find it funny
[13:35] <Myrtti> gall soap to get rid of sweat stains in dsample's work shirts
[13:35] <daftykins> SuperEngineer: ah :) my apologies
[13:35] <Myrtti> baroque pearl elastic bracelets, because I broke my friendship bracelet I had on my wrist for months
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: none need - like I said -  I have learned to find it funny
[13:36] <SuperEngineer> *needed
[13:36] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:36] <Myrtti> I understood that perfek :-P
[13:37] <Myrtti> or should I say perfick
[13:37] <davmor2> ah fentimans ginger beer the best
[13:37] <Myrtti> alcoholic?
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: only if you lean on a non-existant bar counter and do the complete fall down bit :P
[13:39] <daftykins> XD
[13:39] <daftykins> "Know what I mean?"
[13:40] <davmor2> Myrtti: only very mildly it's more of a pop than crabbies 0.05% or something like
[13:41] <Myrtti> davmor2: I couldn't find the Crabbies alcoholic one in Finland but I could find Fentimans, oddly enough. Price was a bit steep but I liked it and I was doing the Swedish chipboard puzzle so I felt like something better than the bogstandard Finnish sweet cider was in order
[13:41] <Myrtti> installation fuel, so to say
[13:43] <davmor2> Myrtti: yeah Fentimans is damned expensive here I bought a create at the wholesalers though which saved a fair bit of money :)
[15:03] <foobarry> so goat simluator is real?
[15:05] <daftykins> sure
[15:07] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: And hilarious looking.
[15:13] <foobarry> thought it was an april fool joke
[15:14] <daftykins> find videos of the guy 'Robbaz' playing it on youtube
[15:14] <daftykins> he seems quite amusing
[17:28] <diddledan> hmm, I'm struggling with ipsec tunnelling
[17:29] <diddledan> it might be easier if I did it strongswan-to-strongswan rather than mikrotik to swan
[17:34] <directhex> civ5 linux now shipping
[17:35] <mapps> HEY ALL
[17:35] <mapps> civ?
[17:36] <daftykins> civilisation
[17:37] <mapps> aha
[17:37] <mapps> whats that
[17:37] <shauno> o_O
[17:37] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/txvpeyk728i45h7/IMG_20140610_181424.jpg
[17:38] <daftykins> today's craptop, is a Toshiba
[17:38] <mapps> damn my nets slow atm
[17:38] <mapps> what u doing with it
[17:40] <daftykins> so it's allegedly powering off during use... yet i ran prime95 to max temps and it seems fine :/
[17:40] <daftykins> the vents were totally clear already so it's not simple heat
[17:40]  * Myrtti prods dsample to fire up Xchat
[17:41] <mapps> any ideas about my craptop..the old dell that sounds like a freaking plane..took it apart and it aint the fan
[17:41] <daftykins> how'd you confirm that?
[17:43] <mapps> the fan wasnt turning iirc and it was still making this crazy noise
[17:43] <mapps> could it be the PSU?
[17:43] <daftykins> that would be the brick outside of it.
[17:43] <mapps> what do you mean?
[17:44] <daftykins> so i'd hope you could tell which part the sound was coming from :D
[17:44] <mapps> well
[17:44] <mapps> it wasnt the fan
[17:44] <mapps> thats for sure
[17:44] <daftykins> the AC adapter brick is the equivalent of the PSU in a way
[17:44] <mapps> theres no battery in it
[17:44] <mapps> as the battery died
[17:44] <daftykins> pulled the drives?
[17:44] <mapps> hdd and dvd?
[17:44] <mapps> i didnt no
[17:44] <daftykins> run a liveUSB of a Linux whilst no other drives are in
[17:45] <daftykins> not so much optical, just HDD really
[17:45] <mapps> aha
[17:45] <mapps> ok thatl be the next call
[17:45] <mapps> if its the PSU on the mobo? i guess its a bin job
[17:45] <mapps> ?
[17:47] <daftykins> laptops don't really work that way :D
[17:47] <daftykins> is it a rushing of air sound?
[17:47] <mapps> il link it to u
[17:47] <mapps> sec
[17:49] <mapps> might format my netbook before i go away
[17:49] <mapps> czech rep on friday:D
[17:49] <daftykins> wow that is... non-descript
[17:49] <mapps> ??
[17:50] <daftykins> that sound is not obvious
[17:50] <mapps> yea
[17:50] <mapps> its mnot the fan tho
[17:51] <daftykins> must be a small lego man doing pneumatic drill work inside there
[17:51] <daftykins> :>
[17:51] <daftykins> yeah i'd pull drives, get it down to the most basic config
[17:51] <daftykins> is it actually failing to function or is it just that noise?
[17:51] <Myrtti> daftykins: thanks for the dd reminder, the laptop booted now to the usb proper
[17:51] <daftykins> \o/
[17:51] <daftykins> yay for winning
[17:54] <mapps> it works daftykins
[17:54] <mapps> boots up into centos and all is fine
[17:54] <mapps> except that noise;p
[17:54] <daftykins> and running CentOS
[17:54] <daftykins> ;D
[17:54] <daftykins> clearly you just miss the ECE department
[17:54] <mapps> lol
[17:54] <mapps> yes
[17:54] <mapps> :D
[17:55] <daftykins> £13.19 for a 12 gramme tube of arctic silver 5 delivered
[17:55] <daftykins> day-um
[17:55] <mapps> but yea it works fine...except the pesky noise
[17:55] <mapps> it isnt the fan clearly..cant be the hdd surely? as its booting off the hdd?
[17:55] <mapps> you say laptops work diff when i mention a PSU there must be some kinda PSU..could it be that?
[17:55] <ali1234> it can be the HD
[17:55] <daftykins> well they tend to be solid state components
[17:56] <daftykins> (power regulation stuffs)
[17:56] <ali1234> it can also be another fan
[17:56] <daftykins> link ali1234 to the sound, he knows electronics more than me
[17:56] <mapps> hmm
[17:56] <ali1234> or it can be the DC-DC coils whining
[17:56] <mapps> https://soundcloud.com/mapito/pc
[17:56] <mapps> in all its glory
[17:56] <daftykins> then be ready to pause at the end as it drops into music
[17:56] <daftykins> :>
[17:56] <ali1234> wow
[17:56] <ali1234> that's not the HD
[17:56] <mapps> lol daftykins
[17:57] <ali1234> and it doesn't sound like a fan either
[17:57] <daftykins> it sounds like an angry iguana
[17:57] <mapps> any suggestions
[17:57] <mapps> :<
[17:57] <ali1234> that actually sounds like the PC speaker
[17:57] <daftykins> ooh yeah that's a fair point
[17:57] <mapps> so maybe i should disconnect that? i assume i can
[17:57] <mapps> i didnt even think of that
[17:57] <mapps> lol
[17:57] <ali1234> well just put your finger on it
[17:58] <mapps> ok not sure where it is, i guess its obvious O_o
[17:58] <ali1234> it's wherever the sound is coming from...
[17:58] <daftykins> XD
[17:59] <mapps> unless its not the speaker;p
[17:59] <mapps> heh
[17:59] <ali1234> it probably doesn't have a PC speaker if it's a laptop
[17:59] <ali1234> could be a sound card issue though
[17:59] <mapps> yea it is a laptop
[17:59] <ali1234> have you also got photos?
[18:00] <mapps> of the internals of the laptop? nope
[18:00] <mapps> didnt think about it
[18:00] <ali1234> best bet is to just feel around for where the noise is coming from
[18:00] <mapps> ok will do, thanks:D a job for tomorrow..i put it all back together just tokeep it together heh
[18:01] <ali1234> the sound is too regular to come from the HD... and it's too bassy to come from a fan... it sounds like a speaker being hit by an overpowered square wave... like a flapping sound
[18:01] <ali1234> PC speaker is of course driven by square wave, but it could also be the sound card
[18:02] <awilkins> Cable dangling in a fan?
[18:02] <ali1234> what does it sound like when you turn it on?
[18:02] <ali1234> does it instantly start making that noise or does it slowly get louder? or faster?
[18:02] <mapps> its ok at first then after 30sec-a minute noise starts
[18:03] <mapps> it can start quicker than that but usuall after say 15-20sec
[18:03] <mapps> starts the noise like it is instantly
[18:03] <ali1234> that makes me think it isn't mechanical
[18:03] <ali1234> and it coming from the speakers
[18:04] <ali1234> (cos if it's not mechanical there's nothing else that could make a sound like that other than a speaker)
[18:05] <ali1234> unless... could be the cdrom if you have one?
[18:05] <mapps> yea there is one
[18:06] <ali1234> it's unlikely though... the sound is just too bassy
[18:08] <ali1234> actually... if the fan isn't spinning at all it maybe could make that noise
[18:08] <ali1234> if it was jammed or something
[18:12] <mapps> ah
[18:17] <SuperEngineer> Well that's 12.04 wiped & 14.04 in. Installed, configured, extras downloaded & configured - all sorted [except for Steam games.. that'll happen will I sleep tonight] ;)
[18:18] <SuperEngineer> 14.04 - Approved by SuperEngineer - ythat's official folks
[18:18] <daftykins> \o/
[18:18] <SuperEngineer> *that's
[18:19] <SuperEngineer> only minus points - missing status bar in nautilus & lifrea [Linux Feed Reader] will *not* keep it's settings.  I can live with that.
[18:20] <mapps> :D
[18:20] <mapps> what was it you put on a netbook?
[18:20] <mapps> thought it was you..cant remember
[18:20]  * SuperEngineer applauds all the devs & contibutors
[18:20] <SuperEngineer> mapps: yup
[18:21] <SuperEngineer> that's the one with Lubuntu on it
[18:21] <mapps> ah cool
[18:21] <mapps> just normal rls no netbook specific?
[18:21]  * SuperEngineer runs Ubuntu on desktop, Xubuntu on HP mini, Lubuntu on Asus netbook
[18:21] <mapps> ;]
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> ...proof of "a buntu for all seasons" :)
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> got a pooter - we got a buntu just for you!
[18:24] <mapps> i got ubuntu on laptop/desktop well xubuntu on old desktop/server :)
[18:27] <SuperEngineer> hah! tomaaato, tom*a*to - it's a darn tasty thing to eat ;)
[18:28] <mapps> i need to get a new router/modem or combo so i can put openWRT/ddwrt on..whats everyone use?7
[18:30] <SuperEngineer> mapps: I need to get a new boxing glove & smack the person who's using my "borrowed"!  Speed atm is atrocious - was brilliant earlier.
[18:31] <directhex> mapps, civilzation is the most famous game in the "4x" genre - a turn based world exploration/conquering game
[18:31] <SuperEngineer> [borrowing the secure broadband from people nearby - preesie for looking after it for them]
[18:32] <mapps> heh
[18:32] <mapps> anyone got any recommendations? dont really want a seperate router/modem but think i may have to?
[18:33] <directhex> separates overheat & die less
[18:33] <mapps> hm
[18:33] <mapps> just feels like itd be hard work:)
[18:36] <SuperEngineer> Q/ why does CCSM still call the Unity plugin "experimental"?
[18:36] <mapps> ccsm?
[18:37] <SuperEngineer> compiz config settings manager
[18:37] <mapps> ah duh
[18:37] <SuperEngineer> [& solved the problem with expo - it now *hates* top corner & *loves* the *bottom* left corner!... muscle retraining as we speak!]
[18:41] <Myrtti> daftykins: success \o/ reinstalled \o/
[18:43] <daftykins> yay \o/
[19:06] <foobarry> there is a tv programme where a bunch of US girls think they are competing to date prince harry, but its a lookalike :-|
[19:07] <foobarry> tv has reached new lows
[19:07]  * SuperEngineer kisses the external drive & powers it off - job well done mate. ta
[19:08]  * SuperEngineer worries about talking to hardware ;)
[19:13] <SuperEngineer> hmmm -worried. Just went to install Wine and it insists that "nVidia opencl driver and icd loader driver" MUST be removed.  Worreeeeeed!  any clues?
[19:13] <daftykins> why WINE ;_;
[19:13] <ali1234> most likely a problem with 32 bit libraries
[19:14] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: I hace a few [very old] win games * a couple of apps that I really would like to be available
[19:14] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: so safe to allow?
[19:15] <ali1234> no idea
[19:15] <ali1234> show the full output
[19:15] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: at least thayt's an honest answer ;)
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: I was about to show a full screenshot - but can't find where the heck it got saved to! [need top download Shutter to get the control I want - doing it now]... or was there some text file you thinking of?
[19:23] <SuperEngineer> don't see why there would be any text - this is just on requesting Wine - nothing yet happened
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> wth - installing it anyway ;)
[19:51] <mapps> hm
[19:51] <mapps> how do i root a sony xperia z2
[19:51] <daftykins> for why?
[19:52] <mapps> so can access a usb key
[19:52] <daftykins> wat
[19:53] <mapps> ?
[19:53] <mapps> well
[19:53] <mapps> u cant access a usb storage device else
[19:53] <daftykins> bit of an odd use-case
[19:54] <daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTb7IhrGQw8
[19:54] <mapps> well thats it ;p
[19:54] <mapps> its my friend anyway not me
[19:54] <mapps> it looks confusing
[19:54] <mapps> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2440597
[19:54] <daftykins> video states that USB on-the-go support is there as stock
[19:55] <mapps> hm
[19:55] <mapps> it is
[19:56] <daftykins> does he have that cable? :>
[19:56] <daftykins> you really don't want to go modding someone elses phone
[19:56] <mapps> yea
[19:56] <mapps> agree
[19:58] <mapps> whats the diff between these usb host OTG cables and a normal like mini usb -> regular cable?
[19:59] <daftykins> standard charging cable is the wrong gender
[19:59] <daftykins> charging = female, OTG = male
[19:59] <daftykins> not sure if there's any electrical difference, i doubt it
[19:59] <mapps> he said it came with a mini usb cable -> regula that can plug a usb key into it
[19:59] <mapps> aint that the same as host otg?
[20:01] <daftykins> dunno, depends what it's labelled as
[20:01] <daftykins> that'd be a tad surprising, i'd expect them to be aftermarket only
[20:02] <mapps> yea
[20:03] <daftykins> but yeah i'd bet the storage settings have to be looked at, the format of the USB flash drive has to be good and so on
[20:03] <mapps> can you recommend any decent sites for linux tutorials/videos like learning stuff or podcasts although i find podcasts hard to keep up with
[20:03] <mapps> ah yea
[20:11] <mapps> pah guess not ...;p
[20:11] <mapps> off to work in a sec..but got nothig to do for hoursssssss..so can come on irc:D
[20:14] <daftykins> dunno man, my recent assistance of a guy's little home web server involved 4hrs with me and a notepad writing up notes as to getting 14.04 going
[20:14] <daftykins> a few differences to ye olde 10.04 that i wanted to document for future reference
[20:14] <daftykins> at some point i need to carry on, with samba since it seems to have changed enough for me usual approach to not work
[20:16] <mapps> ya i need to setup samba
[22:53] <daftykins> hmm
[22:53] <daftykins> oh dear midnight already
[22:53] <daftykins> perhaps time for a Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons episode :D
[22:55] <popey> O O
[22:55] <popey>                       O O
[22:55] <popey>                                                    O O
[22:55] <daftykins> :D
[22:55] <daftykins> nicely done
[22:57] <daftykins> Captain Black looks like he hasn't slept in a year
[23:01] <popey> I used to work with someone who looked exactly like captain scarlet
[23:02] <popey> he had a perma 5'o clock shadow and perfect plastic hair
[23:02] <popey> also chiseled face
[23:03] <daftykins> hahaha
[23:03] <daftykins> was there a nickname?
[23:49] <maps|wrl> hello
[23:49] <diddledan> morning maps|wrk
[23:49] <maps|wrk> :)
[23:50] <maps|wrk> watching these tyger does docs on bbc iplayer
[23:50] <maps|wrk> tyger does' the perfect body and lol theyre in newcastle talking about tanning injections and he says 'so are you Caucasian,' 'na im white british me'
[23:50] <maps|wrk> lol
[23:51] <daftykins> don't know who that is
[23:52] <maps|wrk> its some guy that does documentaries for the BBC ..the funny thing was the fool that answered his question
[23:52] <maps|wrk> he thought caucasian was 'some kind of asian' :)
[23:52] <daftykins> firefox 30.0 O_O


[09:28] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:24] <dpm> mhall119, for the Q&A today, I realized that Daniel is not back until tomorrow, so I'll jump in for him. Rick's post about the new community team structure is also out, so we can answer any questions about it too
[13:26] <dpm> mhall119, I've also created the hangout already with the ubuntu on air account, and scheduled it for later
[13:30] <mhall119> dpm: sounds good
[14:21] <balloons> oO good luck dpm and mhall119
[14:51] <hggdh> jose: ping


  I've been unable to get to sleep.    What's broken?
[05:55] <fabbione> infinity: not sure.. that's why
[05:55] <fabbione> infinity: if you want to look at it just ssh to halley
[05:55] <fabbione> the source is in my ~
[05:56] <fabbione> rhcluster
[05:56] <fabbione> just temporary drop the versione build-dep on gcc-3.4
[05:56] <fabbione> and try to build
[05:56] <fabbione> it will fail with an interesting error
[05:56] <fabbione> i blame glibc or kernel-headers

[06:02] <jbailey> fabbione: I need to go pass out.  If it's still an issue tomorrow, lemme know.
[06:02] <infinity> Oh, nice.
[06:02] <infinity> jbailey : It's all your fault, you horrible man, fix it now.
[06:02] <jbailey> bite me
[06:03] <infinity> Yessir.
[06:03] <infinity> Biting, sir.
[06:03] <fabbione> jbailey: i am pretty sure it's either glibc or kernel-headers
[06:04] <fabbione> the only thing that will "break" is the new version of lvm2 that will b-d on rhcluster
[06:04] <fabbione> do it
[06:04] <fabbione> so it's not that bad
[06:04] <jbailey> fabbione: Sure.  It's been a while since I've infliced a glibc upload on breezy.
[06:05] <fabbione> jbailey: ehehhe
[06:06] <jbailey> I think I need one more day to get the EarlyUserspace to where mdz can finish his ltsp stuff.
[06:07] <fabbione> oh neat
[06:07] <jbailey> Since dash and busybox don't support posix shell arrays. =(
[06:07] <fabbione> jbailey: next week you will need to tell me how to test that stuff
[06:07] <jbailey> fabbione: Yup!  I can basically handle 3 booting scenarios now:
[06:07] <jbailey> 1) Booting off of a harddrive
[06:07] <jbailey> 2) NFS Boot
[06:07] <jbailey> 3) Booting off of software raid
[06:08] <jbailey> I don't understand how lvm and evms interact enough to do those.
[06:08] <fabbione> #3 what kind of software raid?
[06:08] <jbailey> But they should be easy enough to do.
[06:08] <fabbione> i can help you with lvm
[06:08] <jbailey> fabbione: Whatever mdrun/mdadm can assemble.
[06:08] <fabbione> ah neeeeeaaaat
[06:08] <jbailey> My local test box is a raid1 setup.
[06:21] <infinity> Definitely looks like l-k-h breakage.
[06:21] <infinity> But if that's jbailey's fault of upstream just sucking, I dunno. :)
[06:21] <fabbione> eheh
[06:23] <infinity> Or...
[06:23] <infinity> Maybe it's RedHat's fault for being shithouse.
[06:24] <infinity> Google saves the day.
[06:24] <infinity> Check this patch against qemu:
[06:24] <infinity> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2005-02/msg00355.html
[06:24] <infinity> Search for "gettid"
[06:24] <infinity> Notice that _syscall10 construct, which is also failing for us, and the more elegant looking replacement.
[06:27] <jbailey> I think all the _syscall## macros are gone on ia64.
[06:27] <infinity> Looks like it, yes.
[06:27] <jbailey> IIRC, there's a proposal to get rid of them on all the other archs.
[06:27] <fabbione> so why are they still there for other arches?
[06:27] <infinity> And good riddance to them.
[06:27] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:27] <infinity> Too many magic numbers.
[06:27] <jbailey> Mhm
[06:29] <fabbione> infinity: this "elegant" patch is not exactly easy to understand
[06:29] <infinity> fabbione : I'll give you a patch, then.
[06:29] <fabbione> thanks
[06:30] <jbailey> fabbione: I'll try to do the sparc glibc stuff this weekend too.
[06:30] <jbailey> At least for the 32-bit arch's.
[06:31] <fabbione> jbailey: i will be out all weekend. do you want me to stop the buildd? so you can have full power on box?
[06:31] <jbailey> Hmm.  How caught up are you?
[06:31] <fabbione> jbailey: it's building universe, since all the stuff in main is either banned or FTBFS
[06:32] <fabbione> (or dep-wait)
[06:32] <fabbione> jbailey: + you can stop the buildd yourself if you need to
[06:32] <fabbione> jbailey: you just touch ~/EXIT-DAEMON-PLEASE
[06:32] <fabbione> and it will stop at the end of the build it is doing
[06:32] <fabbione> and i will restart it when i am back on monday
[06:55] <infinity> Kaboom.  Works.  Now to make the patch portable, so you can forward it upstream.
[07:05] <jbailey> infinity: So it's officially Not My Problem(tm)?
[07:07] <infinity> Not anymore.
[07:07] <infinity> Not unless you want to readd all those _syscall macros to ia64.
[07:07] <infinity> And I know how much you'd love that.
[07:10] <jbailey> Yeah, that'd be a case of tell the porter to cope. =)
[07:13] <infinity> S'ok, I have a deep hatred of magic numbers, so this patch is more sane anyway IMO.
[07:18] <infinity> fabbione : halley:~adconrad/rhcluster_1.20050527.debdiff
[07:18] <infinity> fabbione : There's also a build.log and a bunch of debs in that directory as proof that it builds. :)
[07:20] <fabbione> is it portable? :)
[07:21] <jbailey> infinity: http://www.inspot.org/assets/tell_card4_pop.jpg
[07:21] <jbailey> Gotta love links on Savage Love.
[07:22] <infinity> fabbione : More than the old one, that's for sure. :)
[07:22] <infinity> jbailey : Hahah.
[07:24] <infinity> fabbione : It's portable in the sense that any system that defines __NR_gettid will now behave properly, and the rest get -ENOSYS.  That's the best I'm willing to do. :)
[07:24] <infinity> fabbione : That's lightyears ahead of the magic number code I was replacing, so I say "good enough".
[07:25] <jbailey> If gettid isn't available, getpid is usually the replacement.
[07:25] <infinity> jbailey : Well, want to revise my patch further?... I somehow doubt upstream cares about non-Linux platforms at the moment, but making it even better doesn't hurt.
[07:25] <infinity> The current patch should work for all the platforms we care about currently.
[07:26] <jbailey> Not at the moment, I'm just flossing before bed.
[07:26] <infinity> You wear a g-string to bed?
[07:26] <fabbione> well in any case upstream doesn't really care about portability
[07:26] <fabbione> they support only i386/amd64/ppc64 afaik
[07:26] <infinity> fabbione : They should care about portability to Linux arches.  I'd forward this patch if I were you.
[07:26] <fabbione> but we do care :)
[07:26] <fabbione> i am going to anyway
[07:27] <infinity> (Besides, if what jbailey says is true, this patch will be needed for future portability on the "major" arches too)
[07:27] <infinity> Also, halley sucks.  No devscripts, no patchutils...
[07:28] <jbailey> Sleep time.
[07:28] <infinity> jbailey : G'night, you sick freak.
[07:28] <fabbione> night jeff
[09:15] <infinity> fabbione : So, other than the ia64 porting, are those packages ready for upload, SUPERSTAR?! :)
[09:15] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[09:15] <fabbione> i am testing the last 2 init scripts right now
[09:16] <infinity> Rock.
[09:16] <infinity> I assume my shell-fu from the other day was also for these.  Didn't bother looking. :)
[09:16] <fabbione> yeah :)
[09:16] <fabbione> it's for the gnbd-*.init
[09:17] <fabbione> i need to remember to add the copyrights and do the anal changelog :)
[09:19] <infinity> daniels : Bring me dinner.   :P
[09:19] <infinity> daniels : I ate it all.
[09:20] <daniels> infinity: well, there you go
[09:20] <infinity> fabbione : I ate them all.
[09:20] <daniels> let this be a lesson to you
[09:21] <chmj> hehe
[09:21] <fabbione> ehehe
[01:46] <jbailey> Yar
[01:48] <daniels> arh
[02:04] <fabbione> yo
[03:17] <doko> jbailey: ping
[03:21] <jbailey> pong
[03:21] <jbailey> Sorry, I've been working something out with pen and paper. =)
[04:54] <lamont-away> In file included from tracepath.c:21:
[04:54] <lamont-away>  /usr/include/resolv.h:110: error: array type has incomplete element type
[04:54] <lamont-away> (from iputils)
[04:55] <jbailey> Eh?  Are you trying to blame another set of third party bad code on my beautiful glibc and lkh? =)
[05:04] <infinity> l-k-h doesn't have bugs.  <zombie>
[10:17] <katoc> hi!! i need to add packages to installation cd


[15:59] <mdeslaur> \o
[15:59] <pitti> o/
[15:59]  * slangasek waves
[16:00] <pitti> infinity went to bed very late, I don't expect him to show up
[16:01] <slangasek> who's chair today?
[16:01] <pitti> chair: infinity, backup: kees
[16:01] <slangasek> wiki says infinity with kees as backup
[16:02] <pitti> not that we have much of an agenda
[16:02] <pitti> this is the last meeting of the old TB
[16:02] <mdeslaur> did someone bring cake?
[16:02] <slangasek> kees has not made it to TB meetings much lately; probably an action for the board post-election to review the meeting timing
[16:02] <slangasek> (regardless of turnover)
[16:03] <pitti> infinity owns three dragged-on actions, so they will just be postponed again
[16:03] <pitti> and nothing on ML and community bugs, so I guess that's already a "kthxbye", unless you have something?
[16:04] <mdeslaur> I don't have anything
[16:04] <slangasek> nothing except my own carry-over action
[16:06]  * stgraber waves
[16:07] <stgraber> and nothing to bring up either
[16:08] <slangasek> so shall we adjourn this meeting that had no chair to call it to order? ;0
[16:08] <pitti> +1 :)
[16:08] <mdeslaur> +1 bye!
[16:08]  * pitti tips hat and bows, it's been an honor to serve on the TB
[16:09] <slangasek> thanks :)
[16:09] <mdeslaur> pitti: thanks! :)