[00:59] <shrini> godbyk: hai
[00:59] <shrini> so far any luck with tamil fonts?
[00:59] <godbyk> Hey, shrini
[00:59] <godbyk> A bit, yeah.
[00:59] <shrini> wow
[00:59] <godbyk> But now it's finding some errors in the translations.
[00:59] <shrini> oh
[01:00] <godbyk> Let me upload the PDF and log file for you.
[01:00] <shrini> sure
[01:01] <godbyk> shrini: You can see the PDF here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf
[01:01] <godbyk> shrini: And the log file (that shows error messages) here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-ta.log
[01:03] <shrini> please send me the po file
[01:03] <shrini> then, we need to change the font
[01:03] <shrini> font is not correct
[01:03] <godbyk> shrini: I'm just using the po file that's in bzr.
[01:03] <godbyk> I can change the font if you like.
[01:03] <shrini> letters are being splitted
[01:04] <godbyk> shrini: I may not have all the settings right yet.
[01:04] <shrini> oh
[01:04] <shrini> okey
[01:05] <shrini> the heading are still in boxes
[01:05] <shrini> :-)
[01:05] <godbyk> Yeah, I haven't fixed the heading fonts yet. Just the main font.
[01:06] <godbyk> And it's only halfway there. :)
[01:06] <godbyk> Also, you might take a look at the translator's chapter in the style guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[01:06] <godbyk> It looks like you've translated some of the \label{} commands and it doesn't like that.
[01:07] <godbyk> \label, \chaplink, and \seclink should be left untranslated.
[01:09] <shrini> hmmm
[01:11] <shrini> is there any way to find mising }
[01:12] <godbyk> Just a moment and I'll help you track it down.
[01:12] <shrini> okey
[01:15] <godbyk> What font did you recommend we should use?  (It'll have to be an open font that's freely available.)
[01:21] <shrini> what is the current font you used?
[01:21] <shrini> godbyk: ?
[01:23] <godbyk> shrini: The current font is TSCu_Paranar.
[01:23] <shrini> oh
[01:23] <shrini> can you try lohit tamil?
[01:25] <godbyk> Let me see if I have that one.
[01:26] <shrini> ok
[01:27] <godbyk> I have that one. Let me set it up.
[01:27] <shrini> godbyk: wow
[01:27] <shrini> thats great
[01:28] <godbyk> shrini: You can download the pdf from the same link as before.
[01:28] <godbyk> (It still fails to compile, but you can see a bit of the new font.)
[01:28] <shrini> godbyk: ok
[01:29] <shrini> this font is awesome
[01:29] <shrini> godbyk: great font
[01:29] <shrini> but the works are being splitted often
[01:29] <shrini> how to avoid that?
[01:29] <shrini> we do not use justify
[01:30] <godbyk> The text isn't being justified.
[01:30] <shrini> words should not be splitted
[01:30] <godbyk> I don't know yet. I've told it that the text is Tamil, so the font should connect the letters appropriately.
[01:31] <shrini> :-)
[01:31] <shrini> ya
[01:31] <shrini> it should be like that only
[02:06] <shrini> ?
[02:11] <shrini> godbyk: you there?
[02:11] <shrini> troubling you much?
[02:11] <godbyk> I'm here.
[02:11] <shrini> godbyk: ok
[02:12] <shrini> godbyk: how can we find the mising }
[02:12] <godbyk> Well, we have to find it first.
[02:12] <godbyk> :)
[02:12] <shrini> yes
[02:12] <godbyk> It'll be someplace not far after page 8.
[02:12] <godbyk> If you can skim through the translations and make sure that each { has a matching }, you should find it fairly quickly.
[02:13] <godbyk> It looks like a \marginnote{ wasn't closed with }.
[02:13] <shrini> page 8 in LP?
[02:13] <godbyk> (On my end, the translations in Launchpad up as boxes, so I'm not much help there, I'm afraid.)
[02:13] <godbyk> page 8 in the PDF.
[02:13] <shrini> oh
[02:13] <shrini> ok
[02:14] <godbyk> basically, while latex was generating that pdf and started to work on the next page and got stuck.
[02:26] <godbyk> I'm going to take a break for a little bit. But I'll be back in a while.
[02:28] <shrini> godbyk: ok
[02:28] <shrini> bye
[03:26] <shrini> godbyk: how did ubuntujernkins found the mising } ?
[03:39] <godbyk> shrini: I don't know.
[03:39] <shrini> godbyk: i am getting it
[03:39] <shrini> fixing onebyone
[03:39] <shrini> :-)
[03:39] <shrini> what is the time now for you?
[03:39] <shrini> how long i can trouble you?
[03:39] <shrini> :-)
[03:40] <shrini> if possible teach me on how to set lohit tamil font myself
[03:44] <godbyk> shrini: You can try.  If you open the um-tamil.clo file, you'll see the lines like \newfontfamily\tamilfont. (Ignore the lines that start with %.)  Just change the font name at the end of that line.
[03:45] <shrini> godbyk: great
[03:46] <shrini> godbyk: that file is not available with me
[03:46] <shrini> other languages are there
[03:46] <godbyk> run 'bzr pull' to make sure you have the latest updates.
[03:47] <shrini> godbyk: ok
[03:47] <shrini> :-)
[03:48] <shrini> godbyk: got that file
[03:49] <shrini> godbyk: how to mention lohit tamil?
[03:49] <shrini> the real font name is lohit_ta.ttf
[03:50] <godbyk> give it the actual name of the font (not the file).
[03:50] <shrini> godbyk: with space?
[03:50] <shrini> as "lohit tamil"?
[03:50] <shrini> any caps?
[03:50] <godbyk> Just make it look exactly how it does in the font dialog or menu of OpenOffice, for instance.
[03:52] <shrini> ok
[03:53] <shrini> godbyk: fine
[03:53] <shrini> godbyk: got it
[03:53] <godbyk> 'kay.
[03:53] <shrini> pdf is good
[03:53] <shrini> but still there are boxes in many places
[03:53] <shrini> :-)
[03:54] <godbyk> yeah, I know.
[03:54] <shrini> :-)
[03:57] <shrini> godbyk: need help
[03:57] <shrini> power may go down here for 3 hrs
[03:57] <godbyk> 'kay.
[03:57] <shrini> I request you to fix the font issue asap
[03:57] <shrini> and mail me if i am not there in irc
[03:57] <shrini> have to finish the full pdf today
[03:57] <shrini> :-)
[03:58] <shrini> trying our best to bring the pdf for release party
[03:58] <godbyk> I'll work on the font stuff, but I can't make any promises.
[03:59] <shrini> :-)
[03:59] <godbyk> Does the Lohit Tamil font look okay for the body text or is it still messed up?
[03:59] <shrini> lohit tamil is perfect
[03:59] <godbyk> ok
[03:59] <shrini> but when we mix english with that, it shows only boxes
[04:00] <godbyk> Ah, right. That's because the Lohit Tamil font doesn't have the English letters in it.
[04:00] <godbyk> To work around that, you can add \textenglish{Ubuntu} to get it to use the English font.
[04:00] <godbyk> (Just wrap the English words in \textenglish{...})
[04:01] <shrini> lohit tamil has english with it
[04:01] <godbyk> Not that I see.
[04:01] <shrini> any fix?
[04:02] <godbyk> When I load Lohit Tamil into my font viewer and tell it to show me all the glyphs, I see the Tamil glyphs, the numbers, some punctuation, and that's it.
[04:02] <shrini> use in OO
[04:03] <godbyk> It must be using a fallback font.
[04:03] <shrini> oh
[04:07] <shrini> godbyk: anyother easy fix?
[04:07] <shrini> \textenglish{Ubuntu} adding this is a tedious job
[04:08] <shrini> )
[04:08] <shrini> :-)
[04:08] <godbyk> Yes, it is.
[04:08] <godbyk> The easier fix is to select a font that has both Tamil and English glyphs.
[04:09] <shrini> godbyk: okey
[04:09] <shrini> one good news
[04:10] <shrini> fixed the existing missing }
[04:10] <shrini> got the pdf without any error for 196 pages
[04:10] <shrini> still index are missing
[04:10] <shrini> not an issue for now
[04:10] <shrini> :-)
[04:10] <shrini> thanks a lot
[04:10] <shrini> now, only font issue is there
[04:10] <godbyk> great!
[04:10] <shrini> let me search for that
[04:10] <godbyk> yeah, the index and glossary are separate issues.
[04:11] <shrini> how to find wether a font has both english and tamil in it?
[04:12] <godbyk> well, you can just give it a try and see. :)
[04:12] <godbyk> or run 'otfinfo -s myfont.ttf'
[04:12] <godbyk> It needs to list Tamil and Latin
[04:14] <humphreybc> godbyk: so what's the story with translations anyway?
[04:16] <godbyk> What story?
[04:16] <humphreybc> when are we going to see em? :P
[04:17] <godbyk> We might see the Greek edition this week.
[04:17] <humphreybc> hooray for progress
[04:19] <shrini> humphreybc: trying to bring tamil pdf today for our ubuntu release party
[04:19] <shrini> stuck with font issue
[04:19] <shrini> godbyk is helping me a lot
[04:19] <shrini> he is really like god
[04:19] <shrini> :-)
[04:21] <shrini>  otfinfo -s lohit_ta.ttf
[04:21] <shrini> taml		Tamil
[04:21] <shrini> godbyk: lohit tamil has only one
[04:21] <shrini> :-(
[04:30] <shrini> godbyk: i am finding the font
[04:30] <shrini> please look on other font issues
[04:31] <godbyk> shrini: Which other font issues?
[04:31] <shrini> some heading are still in boxes
[04:31] <shrini> some marginnotes
[04:31] <shrini> etc
[04:33] <godbyk> shrini: Ah, once you find a font, I can fix that.
[04:33] <shrini> ok
[04:33] <shrini> testing with some fonts
[04:59] <shrini> godbyk: your current time?
[04:59] <godbyk> It's 23:00
[04:59] <shrini> OMG
[04:59] <shrini> sorry
[05:00] <shrini> troubling you much
[05:00] <godbyk> Not at all.
[05:00] <shrini> still finding a suitable font
[05:00] <godbyk> I'm a night owl.
[05:00] <shrini> :-)
[05:00] <godbyk> I'll be up for a while yet.
[05:00] <shrini> thanks
[05:03] <shrini> godbyk: please have the font "TSCu_Paranar" for now
[05:03] <shrini> and get the pdf
[05:03] <shrini> you can see boxes in headings and in some places
[05:03] <shrini> godbyk: please fix those
[05:06] <shrini> godbyk: can we use arial unicode ms ?
[05:06] <shrini> it is the font comes with MS Office
[05:06] <shrini> hehe
[05:08] <godbyk> We should stick with open fonts if we can. Otherwise, many people won't be able to compile the PDF.
[05:08] <shrini> :-)
[05:08] <shrini> true
[05:09] <shrini> the font "tscu paranar" is perfect in OO
[05:09] <shrini> but some splitted in pdf
[05:09] <shrini> godbyk: any idea?
[05:11] <godbyk> I've uploaded the PDF and LOG files again, so you can see that TSCu_Paranar looks like.
[05:12] <godbyk> I just downloaded a new copy of the translation from Launchpad.  Uploading a new PDF now.
[05:12] <godbyk> Okay, it's uploaded.
[05:16] <shrini> godbyk: wow
[05:16] <shrini> found the proper font
[05:16] <shrini> http://www.kamban.com.au/fonts/
[05:16] <shrini> akshar.ttf
[05:17] <shrini> it is listted here too http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Tamil.html
[05:18] <shrini> godbyk: please us this font and create pdf
[05:18] <shrini> check for other box issues
[05:19] <shrini> thanks a lot for bearing my troubles
[05:19] <shrini> :-)
[05:23] <godbyk> shrini: Uploaded.
[05:23] <shrini> godbyk: link?
[05:23] <shrini> lost the link
[05:24] <shrini> with which font?
[05:24] <godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[05:24] <shrini> ok
[05:24] <godbyk> With Akshar Unicode.
[05:25] <shrini> wow
[05:25] <shrini> awesome
[05:25] <shrini> thanks a lot
[05:25] <shrini> let try making here
[05:26] <shrini> ur pdf version shows all fonts perfectly
[05:26] <shrini> my version shows some boxes
[05:26] <shrini> why?
[05:27] <godbyk> Because I have some newer versions of files that you don't.
[05:27] <godbyk> I've just committed those files to bzr.
[05:27] <godbyk> So run 'bzr pull' and recompile.
[05:27] <godbyk> There are will errors in the build.
[05:27] <shrini> okey
[05:28] <shrini> bzr pull gives 3 conflits
[05:28] <shrini> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
[05:28] <shrini>  M  gloss-tamil.ldf
[05:28] <shrini>  M  po/ta.po
[05:28] <shrini> RN  um-tamil.clo => um-tamil.clo.OTHER
[05:28] <shrini> Text conflict in po/ta.po
[05:28] <shrini> Contents conflict in um-tamil.clo
[05:28] <shrini> Conflict adding id to um-tamil.clo.OTHER.  Unversioned existing file um-tamil.clo.
[05:28] <shrini> 3 conflicts encountered.
[05:28] <shrini> Now on revision 868.
[05:29] <godbyk> run: bzr resolve po/ta.po
[05:29] <godbyk> then: bzr revert po/ta.po
[05:29] <godbyk> oh, and: bzr resolve um-tamil.co
[05:29] <godbyk> and: bzr revert um-tamil.po
[05:32] <shrini> no use
[05:32] <godbyk> run 'bzr status' and tell me what it says.
[05:32] <shrini> I moved the two files ta.po and um-tamil.clo
[05:32] <godbyk> delete the po/ta.po* and um-tamil.clo* files
[05:32] <godbyk> then run 'bzr revert po/ta.po um-tamil.clo'
[05:36] <shrini1> shrinivasan@shrinivasan-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1$ bzr status
[05:36] <shrini1> removed:
[05:36] <shrini1>   po/ta.po
[05:36] <shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
[05:36] <shrini1> unknown:
[05:36] <shrini1>   m/
[05:36] <shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
[05:36] <shrini1> conflicts:
[05:36] <shrini1>   Contents conflict in um-tamil.clo
[05:36] <shrini1>   Conflict adding id to um-tamil.clo.OTHER.  Unversioned existing file um-tamil.clo.
[05:38] <godbyk> type 'bzr resolve um-tamil.clo' then run 'bzr status' again. see if anything's changed.
[05:38] <shrini1> godbyk: power problem
[05:38] <shrini1> i moved the existing um-tamil.clo to another folder
[05:38] <shrini1> need to get updated from repo
[05:39] <shrini1> only that file and the po file
[05:39] <shrini1> how to pull those files?
[05:40] <shrini1> powercut here
[05:40] <shrini1> godbyk: working with ups
[05:40] <shrini1> very soon will go down
[05:40] <shrini1> :-(
[05:40] <godbyk> just run 'bzr revert um-tamil.po po/ta.po'
[05:41] <godbyk> and it should restore those files to match what's in bzr.
[05:41] <shrini1> oh
[05:41] <shrini1> grear
[05:42] <shrini1> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: um-tamil.po
[05:42] <godbyk> rm um-tamil.po*
[05:42] <godbyk> bzr pull
[05:42] <godbyk> then run 'bzr status' and tell me what it says.
[05:43] <shrini1> doing
[05:44] <shrini1> if disconnected, will rush to any friend home in 20-30 min
[05:44] <godbyk> heh. okay.
[05:45] <shrini1> removed:
[05:45] <shrini1>   po/ta.po
[05:45] <shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
[05:45] <shrini1> unknown:
[05:45] <shrini1>   m/
[05:45] <shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
[05:45] <shrini1> this is output of bzr status
[05:45] <shrini1> bzr pull says tat
[05:45] <shrini1> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
[05:45] <shrini1> No revisions to pull.
[05:46] <shrini1> messed anything?
[05:46] <shrini1> godbyk: ?
[05:46] <godbyk> type:
[05:46] <godbyk> bzr revert po/ta.po
[05:47] <godbyk> bzr revert um-tamil.clo
[05:47] <godbyk> then run 'bzr status' again.
[05:47] <shrini1> bzr revert po/ta.po
[05:47] <shrini1>  N  po/ta.po
[05:47] <shrini1> removed:
[05:47] <shrini1>   um-tamil.clo
[05:47] <shrini1> unknown:
[05:47] <shrini1>   m/
[05:47] <shrini1>   screenshots/ta/
[05:47] <godbyk> bzr revert um-tamil.clo
[05:48] <shrini1> wow
[05:48] <shrini1> it worked
[05:48] <shrini1> thanks
[05:48] <shrini1> got those files now
[05:48] <shrini1> are they latest?
[05:48] <godbyk> yep
[05:48] <godbyk> now you can run 'make clean' and 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf'
[05:49] <shrini1> did it
[05:49] <shrini1> got the same pdf as u gave
[05:49] <shrini1> thanks a lot
[05:49] <shrini1> any way to generate index?
[05:49] <shrini1> :-)
[05:51] <godbyk> We have to do some work to make the index.
[05:51] <godbyk> The indexer doesn't understand Tamil, so we will have to teach it.
[05:51] <godbyk> (It needs to know how to alphabetize Tamil words.)
[05:53] <shrini1> oh
[05:53] <shrini1> really great
[05:53] <shrini1> easy task?
[05:53] <shrini1> or a time taking one?
[05:54] <godbyk> I have no idea. I hope so!  I'll have to find the documentation to see how we do that.
[05:54] <godbyk> And you'll have to teach me how to alphabetize Tamil words. :)
[05:54] <godbyk> Once we've taught the indexer how to alphabetize Tamil words, the glossary and index should start working.
[05:55] <shrini1> great
[05:55] <shrini1> why can we see how it works normally?
[05:56] <shrini1> think it will work fine
[05:56] <godbyk> It won't.
[05:56] <godbyk> Because the indexer doesn't understand the Tamil letters at all.
[05:56] <godbyk> So it gives up.
[05:57] <godbyk> When you run 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf', it's trying to create the glossary and index. But it's failing. (That's why you don't see the index and glossary in the PDF.)
[05:58] <shrini1> oh
[05:58] <shrini1> okok
[05:58] <shrini1> i say the alphabetization will work fine with unicode
[05:59] <shrini1> may be
[05:59] <godbyk> I don't know if the indexer knows anything about unicode, though.
[05:59] <shrini1> hmmm
[05:59] <shrini1> fine
[05:59] <godbyk> I'll have to read some of the documentation and see what we have to do.
[05:59] <shrini1> godbyk: okey
[06:00] <shrini1> thanks a lot for your patience and help
[06:00] <shrini1> will fix missing translations and
[06:00] <shrini1> try our best to release alpha version of tamil manual in release party
[06:00] <godbyk> cool.  let me know how it goes!
[06:01] <godbyk> If you translate the \title and \author strings, I'll have thorwil make a title page.
[06:06] <shrini1> sure
[06:06] <shrini1> will do
[06:18] <shrini1> godbyk: thanks a lot
[06:18] <shrini1> getting good pdf
[06:18] <shrini1> hope enough for alpha release
[06:18] <godbyk> Alpha releases are to work out the kinks. :)
[06:28] <shrini1> godbyk: kninks means?
[06:29] <godbyk> In this context, it refers to small problems, bugs, etc.
[06:33] <shrini1> godbyk: okey
[07:39] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[07:41] <humphreybc-mini> hey Luke
[07:43] <godbyk> bedtime for me. see you all in some number of hours.
[07:44] <godbyk> (gonna read before I go to sleep)
[07:44] <ubuntujenkins> hey humphreybc-mini
[07:44] <ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
[07:48] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc-mini: I started pointing the wiki to the website, removed the "get involved page" and changed some of the links
[07:50] <humphreybc-mini> yeah I saw that, thanks
[07:51] <ubuntujenkins> I am not sure what else needs moving over apart from quickshot when I sort out web content
[07:51] <humphreybc-mini> I'm going to do a new website for Quickshot soon
[07:52] <ubuntujenkins> coll I finish exams in 9 days so I have time to do more quickshot stuff
[07:52] <ubuntujenkins> *cool
[07:52] <humphreybc-mini> it'll probably live on ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot for the meantime until someone buys quickshot.org
[07:52]  * humphreybc-mini thinks ubuntujenkins should buy quickshot.org
[07:52] <ubuntujenkins> I think we decided on quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org , I don't have much money at the moment
[07:54] <humphreybc-mini> $15 USD a year
[07:54] <humphreybc-mini> you could probably find it cheaper somewhere
[07:54] <humphreybc-mini> but yeah, subdomain of ubuntu-manual.org is all good
[07:55] <ubuntujenkins> we figured until we got tons of publication adn used by other teams there wasn't much point doing it
[07:55] <humphreybc-mini> yeah
[07:56] <humphreybc-mini> fair nuff
[11:48] <daker> hello :)
[11:59] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> what versions of linux should the quickshot team make quickshot work for? I currently have ubuntu debian fedora I need to sort out all the virtual machines i can before i finish this uni year
[12:05] <daker> All linux version ubuntujenkins :D
[12:05] <daker> versions*
[12:06] <ubuntujenkins> yea theres a lot I am aiming to make virtual machines of as many as i can
[12:09] <popey> ubuntujenkins: suse?
[12:09] <ubuntujenkins> popey: does suse use qt? how does it handle gtk?
[12:09]  * ubuntujenkins get suse
[12:10] <thorwil> ubuntujenkins: for ubuntu, one could argue that you only need to support the release in development
[12:11] <ubuntujenkins> thorwil: I think we shoudl support the current release
[12:13] <thorwil> ubuntujenkins: otherwise, fedora, open-suse and arch-linux seem to be the other big ones, now
[12:14] <thorwil> arg, plus debian, of course
[12:15] <thorwil> ubuntujenkins: http://distrowatch.com/ if you want to compile a longer list
[12:16] <ubuntujenkins> thanks thorwil I will get arch as well.
[12:16] <ubuntujenkins> I had seen distrowatch but then the list is long!
[12:21]  * ubuntujenkins hmmm fedora 13 is not completing the install
[12:21] <thorwil> ubuntujenkins: don't worry to much of what could or should be the job of packagers
[12:23] <dutchie> gentoo!
[12:24]  * thorwil used gentoo for a while, but then decided life is too short for that
[12:24] <popey> ubuntujenkins: dunno
[12:26] <ubuntujenkins> thanks popey
[12:26] <ubuntujenkins> why gentoo dutchie ?
[12:31] <dutchie> just a suggestion of another distro
[12:32] <ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie I will add it
[12:36] <ubuntujenkins> laptop has locked up from downloading to much at once
[12:51]  * thorwil runs ie6 via wine for testing purposes, but still feels dirty
[12:53] <daker> ie6 is very BAB
[12:53] <dutchie> Just Don't Bother
[12:53] <daker> BAD
[12:53] <dutchie> http://www.joshh.co.uk/internet-explorer-and-web-standards
[12:53] <dutchie> oh dear, it got spammed again
[12:54] <thorwil> i wouldn't bother, if it wasn't for a client
[12:54] <ubuntujenkins> i like this http://www.ie6nomore.com/code-samples.html
[12:59] <daker> http://browsehappy.com/why/
[13:47] <thorwil> how can i do a line break in a bash script and get it to ignore it (act as if the line continues)?
[13:48] <dutchie> backslash at the end of line
[13:50] <thorwil> ty
[16:49] <Andre_Gondim> how do I get this manual em pt_BR?
[16:52] <thorwil> Andre_Gondim: pt_BR is still incomplete. or are you asking how you can build a PDF of the current state yourself?
[16:53] <Andre_Gondim> thorwil, yeah, How may I build the PDF?
[16:54] <dutchie> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[16:56] <Andre_Gondim> I will try, thanks ;)
[16:57] <thorwil> yeah, that's a lot easier
[17:00] <thorwil> otherwise, if texlive is in place, it should be "make ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.pdf", i think
[17:00] <Andre_Gondim> I see 7 errors, but I don't know where, is it possible to point the strings with error?
[17:01] <dutchie> ask godbyk
[17:03] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will try and fix them before i go to bed tonight and will leave any corrections to be aproved in launchpad. I can't do them now as I am revising
[17:03] <Andre_Gondim> ok
[17:32] <ubuntujenkins> I am going to turn my latop off for a few hours so i can concentrate be back about 9pm bst
[20:16] <shrini> godbyk: hai
[20:16] <shrini> we made the ubuntu release party today
[20:16] <shrini> released the manual
[20:16] <godbyk> shrini: Hey. How was it?
[20:16] <shrini> thanks a lot for your assistance
[20:16] <shrini> and bearing all my troubles
[20:17] <shrini> :-)
[20:17] <godbyk> No problem. That's what I'm here for.
[20:17] <godbyk> How's the release party go?
[20:17] <shrini> :-)
[20:17] <shrini> thanks a lot
[20:27] <shrini> godbyk: we need to work on other things like index
[20:27] <shrini> can you do one favour?
[20:28] <shrini> we need the screenshots in the pdf
[20:28] <shrini> there is no seperate tamil screenshots
[20:28] <shrini> we can use the english screenshots
[20:28] <shrini> can you place the english screenshots and produce the pdf?
[20:39] <godbyk> Do you use US English or UK English
[20:40] <dutchie> ITYM "US English" or "English" :P
[20:42] <godbyk> dutchie: Heh.. Fair point.  But I believe you guys will come around to our way of thinking.
[20:42] <dutchie> Never!
[20:43] <dutchie> though you've already managed it with billions
[20:44] <godbyk> dutchie: Your language will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
[20:45] <daker> who's editing the developers manual ?
[20:48] <thorwil> daker: rickspencer, if i don't mix something up
[20:49] <daker> thorwil, thanks
[21:13] <daker> Elementary rocks!!!
[21:27] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will look at your errors now
[21:28] <Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, sounds good :D
[21:36] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: this is wrong \menu{Editar\ e depois em Copiar} the word this bit "\then" should stay in "\menu{Edit\then Copy}"
[21:36] <ubuntujenkins> full string https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=+os+atalhos+de+teclado
[21:36] <Andre_Gondim> let me c
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> I don't speek pt_BR so I don't know what reads
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> also see http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf for more detail on what should be translated
[21:38] <Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, anything else?
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: not yet I need to just add that phrase in and find the next problem
[21:41] <Andre_Gondim> ok
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: can you change this one to my version please https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/297/+translate . I chnaged the end bracket
[21:44] <Andre_Gondim> let me see
[21:44] <ubuntujenkins> it went from ) to } at the end
[21:44] <Andre_Gondim> done it! :D
[21:46] <ubuntujenkins> and this one same thing but half way though https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/308/+translate
[21:47] <ubuntujenkins> ok there is one error left which is because of the glossry and index needs setting up. I don't know how to do that.
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you teach me how to set the glossery and index up at some point please
[21:48] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: What do you mean by 'set them up'?
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> make them work so they appear at the end of the pdf
[21:49] <godbyk> They should automatically, assuming that the indexer knows the language.
[21:49] <godbyk> (If it doesn't know the language then we have to teach it. I have to read up on that.)
[21:49] <godbyk> If you run 'man xindy' and scroll down a ways, you'll see the list of languages it supports.
[21:49] <godbyk> If one of those languages matches the language you're trying to compile, then it should Just Work.
[21:50] <godbyk> If it doesn't, make sure that the language codes are set up in the langcodes.txt file.
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> I am trying to do portuguese brazilian xindy supports portuguese
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> hmm in the .txt the xindy langauge is portuguese but it doesn't work
[21:51] <godbyk> What's the xindy program tell you? (what errors?)
[21:52] <ubuntujenkins> when running make ubuntu.........pdf?
[21:52] <godbyk> Run: xindy -C utf8 -M texindy -L portuguese ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.idx
[21:52] <godbyk> (Assuming that's the right language name for xindy. I didn't look.)
[21:53] <ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445750/
[21:53] <ubuntujenkins> looks good to me
[21:54] <godbyk> yeah. so the index should work fine.
[21:55] <ubuntujenkins> how come I don't get one in the pdf then?
[21:56] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Not sure yet.
[21:56] <godbyk> My laptop is regenerating all the PDFs right now, so I can't disturb it.
[21:56] <godbyk> Any errors in the ubuntu-manual-pt_BR.log file?
[21:58] <ubuntujenkins> running xelatex ubuntu-manual-pt_BR gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/445752/ but make worked except for 1 error I thought it was the index. just looking at the log file
[22:00] <ubuntujenkins> make did work I think i madea typo in the po file
[22:01] <godbyk> On mine it's dying due to a LaTeX error (typo in the translation).
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will paste bin a better po file in a second
[22:02] <godbyk> k
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> there are problems with the glossary stuff being translated when it shouldn't
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: in launchpad can you do a search for \newglossaryentry please and any thing in the first brackets should stay the same in this one
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> \newglossaryentry{conexão discada}{name={conexão discada}, description={Uma
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> conexão discada é quando seu computador utiliza um modem para conectar-se a
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> um \gls{ISP} (Provedor de Serviços de Internet} através da linha
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> telefônica.}}
[22:04] <ubuntujenkins> this bit {conexão discada}  should be in english
[22:04] <Andre_Gondim> hmmmmmm, ok
[22:04] <ubuntujenkins> It would be great if you could check those please
[22:05] <ubuntujenkins> see the pdf i linked if you are confused
[22:06] <Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, like this https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/8/+translate
[22:06] <c7p> Andre_Gondim: there is a nice document explaining almost everything http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf . Check it, find common mistakes, search for them on launchpad and correct them. This way a lot of time is saved ;)
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: you got it :)
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ignore any errors i posted before I am getting confused with two different languages :/
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: just e-mailed you the po file paste bin has a fit if i put it in there
[22:11] <ubuntujenkins> pastbin/chromium
[22:11] <ubuntujenkins> the log for the build is http://paste.ubuntu.com/445758/
[22:12] <ubuntujenkins> is it because of the bit between {} being translated?
[22:13] <godbyk> ok
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> hopefully by learning now I can save you time in the future :)
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> thats the secret plane :P
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> *plan
[22:14] <godbyk> Is this log file with the po file you emailed me?
[22:14] <godbyk> There's still a bunch of translation/LaTeX bugs.
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> the past bin ^ is the log file for the po file i sent.
[22:15] <godbyk> okay. there are a bunch of errors in your po file still, then. :)
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> it builds to the end, I am confused
[22:16] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: if you search the log file for lines beginning with !, you'll find the errors.
[22:16] <godbyk> Well, it's building because the Makefile tells LaTeX to just keep going and ignore the errors (if it can).
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> ok some of them are glossry errors which Andre_Gondim is fixing
[22:17] <Andre_Gondim> -]
[22:17] <Andre_Gondim> =]
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: what is this word in english ? \depois
[22:18] <Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, hmmmm, I belive is "then"
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I under stand I will try and fix all these errors
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: can you do a search for \depois and replace it with \then please
[22:19] <Andre_Gondim> just a minute
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> no probelm in a \menu{random text } the \then bit should stay . If i rember correctly it makes an >
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I think once the \depois and the glossry entires are corrected we shoul have no errors
[22:26] <Andre_Gondim> ubuntujenkins, I think is everything correct, can you check it?
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: I will get launchpad to send me a po file and I will find out
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> it wil be 5 to 10 minutes
[22:26] <Andre_Gondim> ok
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> which other pdf did i start on last night? I didn't manage to finish before i went to bed
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> is a spanish translator here?>
[22:30] <c7p> sry but from what I see many \gls commands aren't ok, the gls command shouldn't be translated
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> is that at me c7p ?
[22:31] <c7p> no at Andre_Gondim
[22:31] <ubuntujenkins> ok
[22:35] <c7p> Believe me you waste too much time doing this. The command line error finding (through the compilation of the pdf) should be one of the last steps of the whole translation progress. As I said previously the best thing you can do is to search for common command translation bugs etc e.g \gls , \menu, glspl,.
[22:36] <godbyk> c7p: Not a bad idea.  I could probably write a script to do some of that.  Ensure that things that shouldn't be translated haven't been translated.
[22:36] <godbyk> I'll work on that in a bit.
[22:37] <godbyk> c7p: I'm still going through your PDF.  So far everything's looking good.
[22:37] <c7p> nice :D
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: if you change all the \gls{} back to english change all the \depois to \then I think thats most of the errors
[22:37] <godbyk> c7p: One thing I noticed though (and this is the fault of po4a, not yours) is that po4a screws up the line wraps of some things.
[22:38] <godbyk> c7p: We need to check the terminal environments (\begin{terminal} .. \end{terminal}) and the credits to ensure that the line breaks haven't been mangled by po4a.
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: some of the \then have been changed to \e depois
[22:38] <Andre_Gondim> let me fix it, just a moment
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> Andre_Gondim: no rush :) . just letting you know
[22:40] <c7p> godbyk: So i have to check all terminal inputs and credits to see that everything is fine?
[22:40] <godbyk> c7p: Yeah, just compare them to make sure the line breaks are where they should be.  If they're not, you can edit them in the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file.
[22:41] <godbyk> c7p: I know some of the credits are wrapped incorrectly, but I haven't checked the terminal output yet.
[22:42]  * ubuntujenkins finds the extra }
[22:43] <godbyk> Fresh builds should be online at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ now.
[22:46] <c7p> all command output are in place and there are no break line issues, appart from the command on 6341 (cd "\textasciitilde/Μουσική/The Beatles/Sgt. etc)
[22:47] <c7p> line 6341*
[22:47] <c7p> could you move the ``Lonely Hearts Club Band/"}'' on the same line that the rest of the command is?
[22:49] <godbyk> c7p: done.
[22:50] <godbyk> c7p: I'm fixing the credits right now, too.
[22:51] <c7p> oh man you are quick :D
[22:52] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: spanish is error free ! which one should i do next?
[22:52] <ubuntujenkins> tranlators hout if you want me to fix your latex errors
[22:53] <ubuntujenkins> by error free i mean no ! in. there sin't any thing else i should look for?
[22:54] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'd probably sort by completeness and start at the top.
[22:54]  * ubuntujenkins completes greek :P
[22:54] <godbyk> Hey, c7p, the last three lines of so of the credits.. where do the line-breaks go?
[22:55]  * ubuntujenkins starts on german
[22:57]  * ubuntujenkins completes german
[22:58] <ubuntujenkins> our translators are translating hard, there is loads done
[22:59] <godbyk> I know.
[22:59] <godbyk> Our translators rock!
[22:59]  * ubuntujenkins agrees
[23:01] <c7p> hm
[23:02] <c7p> godbyk: you mean after \ldots ?
[23:04] <godbyk> c7p: after Matthew Paul Thomas.  I broke the lines like this:
[23:04] <godbyk> Ομάδα Τεκμηρίωσης του Mozilla Firefox
[23:04] <godbyk> Ομάδα Τεκμηρίωσης του Ubuntu
[23:04] <godbyk> Ubuntu Community Learning Project
[23:04] <godbyk> Is that correct?
[23:06] <godbyk> c7p: I've uploaded the PDF and log file to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ if you want to take a look at it.
[23:08] <c7p> great! that's right
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> are we spelling dialup like dial-up or dialup? in the english uk the \newglossaryentry has it as dialup but the \gls as dial-up
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> ok the whole manual is in consistant in the use of the word
[23:12] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: wikipedia has it as dial-up. We trust wikipedia !
[23:14] <c7p> godbyk: is there anything that I can do for you?
[23:15] <godbyk> c7p: I don't have anything else for you yet. I'll let you know, though.
[23:15] <godbyk> (I'm just going through the PDF and making a list of all the things I need to check for each translation.  So far everything in yours is looking good.)
[23:16] <c7p> very nice
[23:16] <godbyk> I may edit the text in the colophon a bit. I need to double-check the fonts we're using.  But if I do, it'll only be a sentence or two that needs to be retranslated.
[23:16] <c7p> I have added some new notes on etherpad doc
[23:16] <godbyk> c7p: Thanks! That doc is going to help a lot.
[23:17] <c7p> yes it will
[23:17] <godbyk> Once we publish a couple of these translations, I think we'll have quite the checklist. :)
[23:17] <c7p> yes
[23:17] <c7p> it's very interesting how thing progress
[23:18] <godbyk> Yeah, there are a million details to fret about, it seems. :)
[23:19] <godbyk> With the original English text, I can fix most of the little issues myself without bothering anyone.
[23:19] <godbyk> With the translations, I have to rely on the translators to help out a lot, since I can't read the text.
[23:19] <godbyk> I just have to assume that the Greek manual isn't filled with complete gibberish. ;-)
[23:21] <c7p> hehe
[23:22] <c7p> I remember when many people were on this channel telling their opinion about the margin notes, padding etc ... now we have the manual completed and here come the translated edition ... there are also plans for future releases. This project and it's people rock :)
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> I am off to bed, there are now no errors in Galician,German, Greek, Spanish, English uk and asturian . Top 6
[23:22] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: awesome job! thanks!
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> depending on how revision goes tomorrow I will do more. no problem godbyk i like to learn and help :)
[23:23] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe I'll get time this evening to write a little python script to help find errors more quickly.
[23:23] <c7p> good job ubuntujenkins
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I am getting quite quick, so don't worry if you don't have time
[23:24] <godbyk> cool
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> night all 0/
[23:24] <c7p> night ubuntujenkins
[23:24] <godbyk> g'night, ubuntujenkins!
[23:24] <c7p> I g2g also
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> night c7p
[23:24] <c7p> g'night all


 anyone have the same issue with search page not showing in the libertine app https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/639
[02:55] <lulzcat_> hello hello
[03:09] <lulzcat_> i have a question about unity 8
[03:09] <lulzcat_> if anyone is here?
 @lulzcat_, just ask, and if anyone is around and can anwer it they will. or hang around and wait for someone to answer
[04:23] <Arc676> Hello?
 What is your question?
[05:16] <lulzcat_> Installing a chroot container with libertine is no problem. Installing apps in the container works as well. However, when I start the X Apps the apps crash immediately
 is this on hammerhead/nexus 5?
[05:42] <ubptgbot> Valaurie Xenos was added by: Valaurie Xenos
 @Valaurie Xenos, Welcome Valaurie !!! Check out ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started and feel free to ask any questions you may have in here or in our Welcome & Install room!
 Hello there, since there are a few Users in and around Munich, there should be a mendatory event in June for all of you. Sorry that there is no translation. It's about the probabal end of LiMux, the Linuxclient for the administration of the city. … https://www.gruene-muenchen.de/2018/05/16/freie-fahrt-fuer-freie-software/
 Ldanwin sounds like you somehow switched your updates to RC channel. In settings, get it back to Stable
[08:03] <ubptgbot> Aguragorn was added by: Aguragorn
[08:16] <lulzcat_> hello anyone available?
 yes , about ~1500 :)
 I finally created the PR to update libhybris which iirc was required for the Gemini port https://github.com/ubports/libhybris/pull/2
[08:22] <lulzcat_> ive got legacy x apps installed and libertine on ubuntu touch 16 dev but its displaying the apps
[08:23] <lulzcat_> i just instlled the 16 dev version because on the stable the apps displayed but crashed before they opned
[08:23] <lulzcat_> im on a nexus 5 any ideas also on the store theres no apps to download?
 did you install the xenial version of the openstore?
 Hey, is there any means by which a user can tweak the suggested programs with which to open a file type?
 @lulzcat_, Libertine is broken on the Nexus 5
 For example if I click a Gedit .txt file from an email in Dekko, it doesn't give me the option of using Gedit to open it.
 @JBBgameich, Jesus! How much commits are there! Amazing!
 @TartanSpartan, afaik there is no content-hub support for apps in libertine. Apps need to register the content-type they support which debs do not
 @Flohack, Your libhybris fork was from 2015-2016, so two years of work came in due to the merge.
 nice!
 @JBBgameich, Clear. I am afraid that probably xenial is the right current branch... But plz contact @mariogrip for coordination of this part. Not to break things...
 @Davy, 😢
 @Flohack, Okay, I opened another PR for the xenial branch. Feel free to close or postpone the PR if you don't want to introduce new possible regressions in xenial.
 It would probably need wider testing before merging, since there are really many changes.
 But it would also enable more newer devices to work properly
 @JBBgameich, Could we have a 'Xenial plus' channel to see what happens with a bulk upgrade? If we take a cautious step by step approach it will take a very, very Kong time?
 @JBBgameich, [Edit] Could we have a 'Xenial plus' channel to see what happens with a bulk upgrade? If we take a cautious step by step approach it will take a very, very long time?
 I think you can add the PR apt repository from the ci and install the newer packages using apt. http://repo.ubports.com/pool/PR-2/main/libh/libhybris/
 Welcome @Aguragorn !!! Check out this to get you started! If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or in our Welcome and Install room! https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 (Voice, 0s) https://irc.ubports.com/WZJvpN7C.oga
[10:25] <ubptgbot> Shetul Majithiya was added by: Shetul Majithiya
 Welcome Shetul !!! Check out ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started and feel free to ask any questions you may have in here or in our Welcome & Install room!
 @Davy, How about posting this in the German group?
 Didn't know, there is one 😅
 @Davy, At the bottom of this page https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome you'll find the language focus groups on telegram list
[14:59] <ubptgbot> aleksandr bograd was added by: aleksandr bograd
 @aleksandr bograd, Welcome, Aleksandr! Check out ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started and feel free to ask any questions you may have in here or in our Welcome & Install room! 🙂
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/HOCvmdCG.png Finally I got my hands on Nexus 5 😍😁
 Gonna install Ubuntu touch
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/lEvn4thc.webp
[15:46] <ubptgbot> <Facu <Vikingo>> lucky u
[15:46] <ubptgbot> <Facu <Vikingo>> i got a Nexus 6 😥
 Want to replace?
[15:50] <ubptgbot> <Facu <Vikingo>> i want ubutu touch or nethunter 💔
[15:50] <ubptgbot> <Facu <Vikingo>> no change my phone again
 @Facu <Vikingo>, I got Nexus 5, we can change lol
[15:52] <ubptgbot> <Facu <Vikingo>> no tnks, i dont want change my phone
 hahaha
 i will not change if you even offer me apple pad
 or apple phone
 or mac book pro
 (Sticker, 512x296) https://irc.ubports.com/0xuooSjh.webp
[16:43] <Sander^home> Pushing power when phone is black screen after trying to activate mobile network gives no response, suddenly it pops up uncofigured_AP, how to I configure it as a wireless network?
[16:44] <Sander^home> I can choose between Leap, peap EAP-TLS EAP
[16:45] <Sander^home> I just got it in the charger with 30% battery.. I'm unsure how it reacts, I want it as a phone too
 how long flashing takes
 ?
 any one?
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://irc.ubports.com/F6DPtlCr.png
 stopped there for long time
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/47nhaG4N.png
 You should go to Welcome room, where you'll get help with that.
 4
 @gostranger, go to install room (welcome room) for support.  They are N5 masters ;)
 link plz
 https://t.me/WelcomePlus
[18:19] <ubptgbot> * thepeter still resolving new phone issue ... so how much would be acceptable to pay for oneplus one in your oppinion?
[18:26] <Sander^home> Hi, Did anyone answer my question some hours ago?
[18:26] <Sander^home> I think my phone is charged
[18:26] <Sander^home> Green blinking dot, black screen
[18:27] <Sander^home> I think the wireless network was another router
[18:27] <Sander^home> I did too much at the same time
 @thepeter, €90 for Nexus 5, OPO for €135 if from commercial outlet and tested
 Less on eBay
[18:27] <Sander^home> thereis the power button and a volume up and down there...
 Untested
[18:28] <Sander^home> I think its a shortcut to get it out of blackscreen mode
[18:28] <Sander^home> I think the activating of the shared wirelesss network did something with the mobile phone networking routing or hardware hickup
[18:29] <Sander^home> Like a bluescreen
[18:29] <Sander^home> Earlier I've discovered the wireless network did work in this mode
[18:29] <Sander^home> But it was not turned on this time
[18:29] <Sander^home> the wireless network sharing
[18:30] <Sander^home> I'm unsure if its software or hardware bug
[18:30] <Sander^home> its an EQ 4.5
[18:31] <Sander^home> I wish someone did produce a new batch of it
[18:31] <Sander^home> Last time they promised to opensource the hardware together with samsung
[18:31] <Sander^home> Its the best business phone ever
[18:32] <Sander^home> Quicker than apple
[18:32] <Sander^home> Becouse of the blurry jpg interfaces
[18:33] <Sander^home> Android is an xml black hole
[18:33] <Sander^home> Apple is a closed source black hole
[18:33] <Sander^home> And windows phone got the framing security
[18:35] <Sander^home> Did anyone backup the hardware and software spesifications? I know it needs someone in quality assurance in china
[18:35] <Sander^home> I have someone one who is in the hardware business
 Please be more compact in your comments. We have 1500 users here. It is filling the timeline
 There is an OT group for general chat but no irc link there
[18:37] <Sander^home> He's into producing small outlet brands now, going for bigger things when he understands its within reach
 @Stereofont, thanks I have found nexus 5 used daily for €49 rooted nexus 4 for €40 OPO 16Gb for €115 aaand OPO 64Gb asks what price would I propose :) so I found prices up to €150 and wanted to know community opinion :)
[18:37] <Sander^home> I've tried to use a nexus 5, I dont like it
[18:37] <Sander^home> it needs to be without a home buton
[18:37] <Sander^home> and 3 buttons on the side
[18:37] <Sander^home> and two simcards
 Sander. Please read what I wrote
 General chat is off topic
[18:38] <Sander^home> OT means?
[18:38] <Sander^home> i'm not on gnus
 OT is off topic
 You are flooding
[18:40] <Sander^home> Its a real problem with a black aquaris e4.5 phone
[18:40] <Sander^home> black screen
 Did you drop it in water?
[18:40] <Sander^home> Nopes
[18:40] <thepeter> Sander^home, just wtire whole sentence without enters ... and at the and send it okay?
[18:41] <Sander^home> Ah, I see, i'll try it.
[18:42] <Sander^home> My black quaries EQ 4.5 have a black bluescreen, wonder what shortcuts I should push to get it to boot as the screen is wiped black
 Thepeter it is not fair on other users to have to read long stream of chat from one person
[18:43] <Sander^home> I know its a known problem. I think it was power for 5 seconds or something. I'm not sure.
 Sander it sounds like a hardware fault. In some situations pressing the power button for a long time works. Try 40 seconds
[18:44] <thepeter> yes I understand, I share your opinion regarding OT
[18:44] <Sander^home> wow, works, thanks:)
 Sander : great!
 @thepeter, No problem. I just meant that longer sentences are not a solution :)
[18:59] <krizoek> anyone know if it's possible to set up a wifi hotspot with ubports?
 Yes
[19:07] <krizoek> how?
 Go to Settings, Hotspot should be in there
[19:10] <krizoek> ahh, so easy. nice. ty :)
[19:18] <krizoek> can i install and run things like audacious too ??
 @Stereofont, eh? this is how IRC works. it is not telegram, you can't just tell everyone to go to a different chat because you think something might be off topic, particularly when they are asking for support with UT on their phone, which is totally on topic
 @krizoek, It's not so easy
 @krizoek, that's what libertine is for. create a container and install legacy apps inside it. with the "desktop apps" scope you can launch them
 if you're on a nexus 5 though, there's a bug that prevents libertine from being usable :-/
[19:40] <krizoek> i have a nexus 5 :/
 @dohbee, The posts about that remain. Extensive rambling has been removed
 If I made the image writable, could I install cli tools like zip?
 @amolith, what you mean with 'zip'
 *?
 zip and unzip.
 @amolith, If you're trying to install CLI only tools, how about creating a chroot in your home directory?
 @TronFortyTwo, What Dalton said. I'm not sure what the package name is but those are the programs it has.
 @UniversalSuperBox, I suppose yes
 @UniversalSuperBox, but this
 @UniversalSuperBox, How would I do that?
 Is debootstrap installed? I don't remember. If not, you may need to download the package from the repository and use the scripts it contains.
 - Libertine or … - manual way with debootstrap and chroot (they are installed) (root required) or … - the OnTheRoad app
 Or download preinstalled image
 But just use libertine I guess
 Libertine is still broken on the N5 though right?
 Not for cli
 @TronFortyTwo, I had forgotten about OnTheRoad. I'll try that
 Only for x11
 @dohbee, Oh. I'll do that first then lol.
 There is also the 'proot' option that is what libertine uses that is a kind of rootless chroot but never tried it myself
 Hmm, wish unity 8 wasn't so tightly tied to Mir. :/
 @UniversalSuperBox I'm about to hear you on Late Night Linux 😉
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/MNq0wlaa.mp4
 :P
 @UniversalSuperBox, I was actually going to bring this up in the marketing group to see if we could get you or someone else on a podcast and get some more coverage but you beat me to it 😉


[19:30] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt, RAOF: It looks like we missed some commits from master to go into the 8.0 branch
[19:31] <Prf_Jakob> When will it be hard to grab a new release and get that into 12.04?
[19:31] <broder> if there's another mesa upload coming, do you guys think you could look into marking libglu1-mesa-dev multiarch: same? it should fix bug #949606
[19:31] <broder> (and i believe you can just change the metadata without any additional changes)
[20:09] <bryceh> Prf_Jakob, final freeze is april 12.
[20:10] <Prf_Jakob> bryceh: ok thanks
[20:11] <bryceh> Prf_Jakob, I *think* that a mesa point release would be ok up until that date (let's say apr 10 just to be safe), if it is just a small number of bugfixes
[20:12] <bryceh> Prf_Jakob, no guarantees though.  in the past there've been refactoring or other changes that have made them unviable for inclusion.  but worst case we can cherrypick good commits with well-documented bug reports associated with them.
[20:14] <bryceh> Prf_Jakob, if every mesa change is associated with a bug #, that would help getting it approved
[20:18] <Prf_Jakob> bryceh: ok


[00:01] <rick_h_> ouch though, $30 outlet :/
[00:19] <gamerchick02> that is kinda cool. but i just use a power strip and a USB charging block thing.
[00:19] <gamerchick02> heh
[00:21] <rick_h_> yea, we've started at keeping usb power cords in the kitchen and the space would be nicer like that
[00:22] <gamerchick02> i agree.
[00:43] <snap-l> JoDee managed to kill her micro USB cable
[00:43] <snap-l> so I only have the one that came with my phone
[00:43] <snap-l> got one on order
[00:46] <rick_h_> I'm so glad things are going to that
[00:46] <rick_h_> almost everything is on that these days, though did hit mini-usb on my bike lights
[00:47] <snap-l> As long as it's USB, I'm happy
[00:47] <snap-l> unfortunatlely my nook uses a weird pin-out
[00:48] <snap-l> it looks like micro usb, but has some funky shape
[00:49] <brousch> mine NC has an extra long micro-usb
[00:49] <brousch> damn fools
[00:53] <snap-l> brousch: It's not actually micro USB
[00:54] <snap-l> try it (unplugged) in another device
[00:54] <snap-l> it's actually too thin
[00:54] <brousch> yeah, doesn't work with other devices
[00:54] <brousch> the charger works with a regular microusb cord though
[00:54] <snap-l> Yeah, the charger is just USB
[00:55] <snap-l> they added some extra stuff to run at higher power
[00:57] <brousch> it's nice for charging other things, so i carry it in my bag
[01:00] <snap-l> Let's get the meeting started
[01:00] <snap-l> Who all is here?
[01:01] <rick_h_> around
[01:01] <brousch> is that tonight?
[01:01] <brousch> wow. got lucky
[01:01] <Ahuka> Be vwey, vewy quiet. I'm hunting wabbits.
[01:04] <snap-l> Anyone else?
[01:10] <snap-l> OK, quiet group
[01:10] <snap-l> guess it's good, since there's not much to cover this meeting
[01:10] <snap-l> Only point I'd like to highlight is that Ohio Linuxfest fast approaches
[01:10] <snap-l> and last year we had a booth with Lococast
[01:10] <snap-l> which was essentially rick_h_ and I sitting in the booth all day
[01:12] <snap-l> Which was OK, but didn't afford us much time to see the show
[01:12] <rick_h_> I and won't be there this year
[01:12] <rick_h_> err ... and I
[01:12] <snap-l> Which leads to problem #2 to doing that again
[01:15] <Ahuka> Why not just record an episode there, and spend the rest of the time seeing the show?
[01:15] <snap-l> Ahuka: See above
[01:17] <snap-l> We talked last year about combining efforts with the Ohio team, but that didn't go anywhere.
[01:19] <snap-l> We cantry that route again
[01:19] <snap-l> but if not, we'll need to put some effort into having a presence at OLF
[01:21] <brousch> when is olf?
[01:22] <_stink_> alf?
[01:22] <Ahuka> Last weekend of Sept.
[01:23] <brousch> Very unlikely for me
[01:25] <Ahuka> While I will be there, my time is already committed.
[01:25] <snap-l> Ahuka: Yeah, I figured as much
[01:25] <snap-l> IN any event, something to think about
[01:26] <jjesse> oh sorry didn't realize meeting was going on
[01:26] <jjesse> i'll start paying attention
[01:31] <snap-l> Anything else on OLF?
[01:32] <Ahuka> Nothing here.
[01:35] <snap-l> Anything else in general?
[01:36] <jjesse> no
[01:38] <snap-l> going once
[01:41] <snap-l> going twice
[01:42] <snap-l> Thank you everyone for coming
[01:42] <jjesse> three times a lady?
[01:45] <snap-l> Only if you worship Lionel Ritchie
[02:59] <gamerchick02> sorry. i was on the phone with Brian. but i'm going to bed now and will see everyone tomorrow after work.
[11:17] <rick_h_> morning
[11:21] <snap-l> good morning
[11:22] <rick_h_> http://xahlee.org/kbd/Truly_Ergonomic_keyboard.html for the morning conversation
[11:24] <snap-l> About the only thing that needs is a dvorak layout so I can completely write it off
[11:25]  * snap-l needs to do some scientific studies that ergonomic keyboards don't do what they claim.
[11:25] <rick_h_> yea, that was my thing. I've been wanting an MS natural with real keys forever, but this is a bit much I think
[11:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: Well, I think the MS natural keyboard is an abomination as well
[11:28] <snap-l> so I'm not the best person to ask about "ergonomic" keyboards.
[11:28] <rick_h_> naw, just too big. needed no numpad, etc
[11:28] <snap-l> bbiab
[11:29] <snap-l> Fuck, I can't wait to get to 12.04, where I don't have suspend. :)
[11:29] <Robechz> hi
[11:29]  * snap-l just hit suspend, for those playing along at home.
[11:30] <snap-l> OK, really bbiab
[11:30] <rick_h_> snap-l: huh? I'm confused.
[11:30] <rick_h_> see ya
[11:31] <Robechz> I would like to fix a very super easy defect, will be my first
[11:31] <Robechz> which defect do you recommend me to fix?
[11:33] <rick_h_> Robechz: well, I would try to find some appliaction or tool you use and find useful. And look for something within there
[11:36] <Robechz> OK I submitted a wishlist 'to have a suggestions/report link at the very top right of ubuntu' and it was denied, how can I promote it and or start working on it?
[11:42] <rick_h_> man, there's a guy running a project that lists out open source projects that could use help with something but I'm blanking on the name
[11:42] <rick_h_> maybe greg-g can help me remember when you gets up ^^
[12:04] <shakes808> good morning all
[12:04] <rick_h_> ugh monday heh
[12:05] <shakes808> I hear ya
[12:06] <snap-l> Good morning again
[12:07] <snap-l> rick_h_: I accidentally hit "suspend" from the drop-down list
[12:07] <snap-l> it's under "Lock"
[12:07] <rick_h_> ah
[12:07] <snap-l> and frankly, on my desktop machine, it's pretty pointless
[12:08] <snap-l> There's a snowball's chance that I'm ever going to want to suspend the machine on purpose
[12:56] <brousch> Productive day. Fixed 2 computers and a data entry error already
[12:56] <rick_h_> woot
[12:57] <shakes808> brousch: awesome, ... now get me a coffee ;) Lol I NEED TO WAKE UP  lol
[12:57] <brousch> Right, be there in about 3 hours
[12:57] <shakes808> Sweet
[12:57] <shakes808> ;)
[12:57] <brousch> I pulled some unbelievable dustballs out of one of the computers
[12:58] <brousch> Looked like steel wool
[12:58] <shakes808> wow nice, hate working on computers like that
[12:58] <brousch> 6 years sitting in a metalshop will do that, I guess
[12:59] <shakes808> When I was working at an RV dealer, their computer was filled with saw dust and metal shavings ... that was fun to clean out lol
[12:59] <shakes808> I understand you woes lol
[12:59] <brousch> Bah, just take it outside and blow through 2 air cans
[13:00] <brousch> Then manual extraction of the steel wool
[13:00] <shakes808> lol
[13:02] <snap-l> That's when it's time for the vacuums
[13:48] <jrwren> brousch: he never learned functional or OO. 45 programming langauges all of which look like C and fortran.
[13:49] <brousch> heh
[13:49] <jrwren> gamerchick02: mac book air, do it! best laptop I've ever had.  but I run OSX on it ;(
[13:49] <brousch> jrwren: He's supposed to be a Perl master!
[13:55] <jrwren> well, he is damned good at perl.
[13:55] <jrwren> I honestly think he says stuff like that trolling.
[13:56] <jrwren> like when I say I've been doing nodejs for 10 yrs, because POE and TWISTED and eventing is not new.
[13:56] <jrwren> but don't tell a node hipster.
[13:58] <snap-l> jrwren: troll. ;)
[14:00] <snap-l> but yeah, 45 C-like languages aren't going to teach you dick about OO
[14:01] <snap-l> And Perl has OO, but it's pretty wonky.
[14:01] <snap-l> It's not something I found particularly easy / beautiful. Felt more like "if I tweak this just so, it can act like an object"
[14:05] <jrwren> perl OO is more a way to do OO in a non-oo langauge. a lot like using glib in C
[14:06] <snap-l> Yeah, that's an apt comparison
[14:06] <jrwren> ty
[14:06]  * snap-l likes glib, though. :)
[14:09] <jrwren> i like glib and perl.
[14:09] <jrwren> if i'm going to write C, glib style C is my prefered style.
[14:11] <snap-l>  "[..] certificates issued by our Terminal Services licensing certification
[14:11] <snap-l> authority, which are intended to only be used for license server                verification, could also be used to sign code as Microsoft. Specifically,
[14:11] <snap-l> when an enterprise customer requests a Terminal Services activation             license, the certificate issued by Microsoft in response to the request
[14:11] <snap-l> allows code signing without accessing Microsoft???s internal PKI                infrastructure."
[14:11] <snap-l> This is why we can't have nice things.
[14:12] <jrwren> SWEET!
[14:12] <jrwren> who fucked that up?
[14:13] <jrwren> who is running that CA?
[14:13] <jrwren> can I get the key?
[14:13] <jrwren> :)
[14:15] <snap-l> Seriously, CAs just need to go away
[14:15] <jrwren> web of trust?
[14:16] <snap-l> More the notion that the trust level you can have is proportional to how much you spend on it.
[14:16] <snap-l> because it's clear there's ways to completely break it
[14:16] <jrwren> certainly.
[14:16] <snap-l> DIginotar, MS not splitting their terminal server license CA, etc
[14:17] <jrwren> in a way, ubuntu is founded in CA :)
[14:17] <snap-l> Yeah, no doubt
[14:18] <snap-l> and when secure boot comes about, I'm certain it'll just make it harder to run legit code, but malware will find a way.
[14:19] <snap-l> It's the great constant of the universe.
[14:19] <snap-l> Like CSS on DVDs (which I find hysterical how they implemented it)
[14:20] <snap-l> I can see secure-boot making the same mistakes
[14:20] <jrwren> agreed.
[14:21] <jrwren> There was a guy with some DMCA stuff on his table at mini maker on saturday.
[14:21] <jrwren> i didn't realize they made more crap around bluray and newer dvds
[14:21] <snap-l> Oh yeah
[14:21] <snap-l> I won't touch bluray with a 10 foot pole
[14:21] <jrwren> and he pointed out that on any decent TV you can open it up and get the RGB signals post crypto
[14:21] <snap-l> and I'm a bit disgusted at how Sony protects SACD
[14:22] <jrwren> sony often hurts their own formats.
[14:22] <snap-l> Well, SACD requires a special drive
[14:22] <jrwren> MD was a sweet format.
[14:22] <snap-l> which was shipping on earlier PS3 models
[14:23] <snap-l> which kind of explains why they killed off the alternate-OS mod for PS3s
[14:23] <jrwren> PS3 was SACD?
[14:23] <jrwren> i had no idea.
[14:23] <jrwren> its also bluray.
[14:23] <snap-l> Install the alternate OS, mod the PS3, and now you're golden
[14:23] <snap-l> jrwren: I believe so, at least from what I've read about copying SACD
[14:24] <snap-l> Which is why I wish DVD-Audio would take off
[14:24] <snap-l> but it appears both formats are pretty much dead
[14:24] <snap-l> Though SACD has a heavy classical following
[14:25] <jrwren> i am glad I don' thave the ears to tell better than CD.
[14:25]  * snap-l has a bunch of SACDs
[14:25] <jrwren> or...  Thay had to resort to a subscription plan for some Windows program to keep up with all the new Blueray encryption crap they come up with
[14:26] <snap-l> I can kind of tell, depending on the music
[14:26] <snap-l> there's some cues in acoustic music
[14:27] <jrwren> did you let your friends know that they are violating DMCA ?
[14:28] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: I doubt they care about that
[14:28] <brousch> It's a personal Blueray collection for personal consumption, so they feel justified
[14:29] <MaskedDriver> brousch: breaking encryption is against the DMCA, ripping from media to your computer in and of its self isn't
[14:29] <MaskedDriver> that's why all music-playing apps have cd ripping built in to them
[14:30] <brousch> Google Music doesn't
[14:30] <MaskedDriver> Google Music application only syncs your current library
[14:30] <MaskedDriver> it doesn't actually play the music
[14:31] <MaskedDriver> they want you on their website for ad $$$
[14:31] <brousch> Well the web client plays music but doesn't rip it either :P
[14:32] <MaskedDriver> that'd be quite the feat
[14:32] <MaskedDriver> imo, the fact that you're not allowed to rip blurays and dvds to your hdd is bad policy. Not everyone is in the Scene and is going to upload it for the leechers
[14:33] <MaskedDriver> some people have media-center PCs and watch movies over the network
[14:33] <MaskedDriver> if they made it EASIER to rip DVDs and BR, I think it'd reduce the amount of piracy. If it's easy to make an AVI or MKV, more people would do that instead of resorting to torrents or usenet
[14:35] <MaskedDriver> instead they have to use DVDDecrypter which works rarely on the newest media, so it's much easier to just download the stuff illegally than buy the movie
[14:39] <MaskedDriver> eliminate the need to leech, you eliminate the need for uppers

[14:40] <snap-l> Or just wait for it to show up on Netflix, and destroy the industry that way. :)
[14:41] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: ^ or that
[14:41] <MaskedDriver> but then you're waiting 7 years
[14:41] <MaskedDriver> instead of getting the newest flix immediately
[14:41] <snap-l> It's commesurate with the amount that I give a shit about Hollywood
[14:42] <snap-l> JoDee and I were looking for something to do. We looked at the list of movies. About the only ones we could muster a "give-a-damn" about were The Avengers (which JoDee doesn't care for superhero flicks)
[14:42] <MaskedDriver> MIB3 [14:43] <snap-l> and Dark Shadows
[14:43] <rick_h_> avengers was better than I thought it would be
[14:43] <snap-l> Which, frankly, is not worth the $$ to care
[14:43] <rick_h_> the wife is dying to see "Brave"
[14:43] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: aye.. my g/f is too
[14:44] <MaskedDriver> luckily I enjoy a good pixar flick every now and then, so I'll probably take her to see it without too much grumbling
[14:44] <MaskedDriver> I dragged her to MIB3 so it's the least I could do
[14:45] <rick_h_> ugh, I've heard all kinds of bad about MIB3
[14:45] <rick_h_> that'll go rental queue I think
[14:46] <MaskedDriver> http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/men_in_black_iii/
[14:46] <MaskedDriver> it's not that bad
[14:46] <MaskedDriver> Josh Brolin's Tommy Lee Jones impersonation is dead on
[14:47] <snap-l> I have a real hard time taking any movie seriously that tries the "Baskin Robbins has a new flavor" ad
[14:47] <snap-l> route
[14:48] <rick_h_> lovely, two layers of popups to close out on rotten tomatoes site...ugh
[14:48] <MaskedDriver> somebody isn't using a good browser
[14:48] <snap-l> Somebody is using a shitty site. :)
[14:49] <MaskedDriver> Rotten Tomatoes is the best site to go to if you're trying to figure out of the movie your girlfriend is trying to drag you to is any good
[14:49] <snap-l> Anyone here good with php on the command-line?
[14:49] <rick_h_> heh, I'll take my chrome dev version over whatever else
[14:49] <rick_h_> snap-l: what do you need?  I've got a thing for red heads :P
[14:52] <MaskedDriver> it doesn't bother you that they have no souls? ;)
[14:56] <rick_h_> married one...so nope
[14:57] <MaskedDriver> :)
[15:17] <jrwren> found a place in python where I really miss C#. datetimes. in C# i can subtract two dates and get a timespan between the two
[15:17] <rick_h_> jrwren: timedelta
[15:17] <_stink_> right
[15:18] <_stink_> timedelta doesn't do it for you?
[15:18] <brousch> Python's datetime stuff is the bizomb
[15:18] <rick_h_> it's a mess :/
[15:18] <snap-l> rick_h_: compared with what? :) Dates and Times get hairy quickly.
[15:19] <jrwren> its a mess compared to C#
[15:19] <rick_h_> snap-l: well it's still a mess
[15:19] <rick_h_> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/7/15/eppur-si-muove/
[15:19] <snap-l> jrwren: I'd worry it was incomplete if it wasn't a mess. ;)
[15:20] <rick_h_> and the fact that dateutil isn't in the stdlib
[15:20] <jrwren> snap-l: yes, but its a mess in the wrong direction.
[15:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: make sure to check out dateutil
[15:20] <rick_h_> it fixes a lot
[15:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: http://labix.org/python-dateutil
[15:20] <jrwren> jodatime is a mess, but its a mess becuase it does everything that the real world does.
[15:21] <snap-l> rick_h_: That article just reaffirms my point that time is a mess
[15:21] <rick_h_> yes, agree, but that's a great article to have handy when the boss says "Add timezones to that"
[15:21] <snap-l> Timezones are not simple slices of an orange.
[15:23] <jrwren> rick_h_: ty, I'll start there.
[15:24] <jrwren> i'm not adding timezones, but i am trying to read them correctly, and all based on a seconds since epoch number
[15:24] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's a pita
[15:25] <brousch> Store everything in UTC
[15:25] <rick_h_> right, but people don't
[15:26] <brousch> All other roads lead to madness
[15:27] <snap-l> brousch: ++
[15:29] <jrwren> i think it is UTC
[15:29] <jrwren> but its distributed system, so if one systems TZ is set, and mine is set to something else, and value is read as that TZ value, well then it isn't really UTC
[15:30] <snap-l> I think you can force it to save UTC
[15:30] <jrwren> and force to read UTC
[15:30] <snap-l> even if the tz is set on the machine, it should be able to get UTC from that
[15:38] <jrwren> or should i use pytz?
[15:44] <jrwren> hrm, mxdatetime ships with our dist. I might aim for that.
[15:46] <snap-l> Are OCZ drives OK, or are they rubbish?
[15:47] <Blazeix> i haven't had any trouble with my ocz drive
[15:47] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: I haven't had any trouble with them
[15:47] <Blazeix> for a while they were leading the pack in terms of performance, i haven't checked recently though
[15:48] <brousch> snap-l: I have 1 OCZ drive that's been in an AutoCAD desktop working well for over a year
[15:48] <MaskedDriver> Blazeix: not to mention price/gb
[15:49] <snap-l> OK, just checking
[15:49] <snap-l> looking to do some upgrades, and wondering if I should get a new OS drive, or get a router
[15:52] <jrwren> the only issue with OCZ drives is the sandforce chipset issue. I think that is mostly fixed.
[15:53] <jrwren> OCZ Vertex3 and now 4 are the fastest around.
[16:38] <shakes808> Question, what do you all use to track bugs?
[16:45] <snap-l> For our own projects?
[16:46] <shakes808> YEA
[16:46] <shakes808> sorry for yelling
[16:46] <shakes808> lol
[16:52] <snap-l> shakes808: I usually rely on a third-party service like github / Sourceforge
[16:53] <snap-l> If I had to make my own, I'd probably go with Trac or one of the myriad offshoots
[16:56] <shakes808> GitHub has bug tracking?
[16:57] <rick_h_> shakes808: github issues, launchpad, redmine
[17:02] <shakes808> thank you
[17:09] <brousch> Bitbucket is free
[17:09] <brousch> Even for private repos
[17:11] <jrwren> really?
[17:11] <jrwren> when did they change that?
[17:11] <jrwren> or is it free for single person?
[17:11] <rick_h_> when they added git support I think it was their big difference maker in teh announcement
[17:11] <brousch> 2 or 3 people in a free private repo
[17:11] <shakes808> 5
[17:11] <rick_h_> "hey we support git! and bring your private repos over!"
[17:12] <shakes808> https://bitbucket.org/plans
[17:12] <brousch> 2+3, that's what I meant ;)
[17:12] <shakes808> brousch: lol
[17:12] <rick_h_> "stop giving github your hard earned $$"
[17:13] <rick_h_> ok, usb 3.0 thumbdrive ordered, 12.04 iso downloaded. Your turn lenovo...x230 better show up online tomorrow
[17:13] <jrwren> but github is excellent.
[17:13] <jrwren> its not just about the repo.
[17:13] <jrwren> its about the nice browsing of the repo in my browser :)
[17:13] <rick_h_> yea, but there are some who want to keep their crap private and it can add up
[17:13] <shakes808> If you wanted to have your crap private, why not host your own git server?
[17:14] <rick_h_> because that's hard :P
[17:14] <brousch> shakes808: Lazy
[17:14] <shakes808> How hard?
[17:14] <shakes808> lol
[17:14] <rick_h_> and no issues, no api, no pretty browser UI jrwren wants
[17:14] <shakes808> there are other issue trackers, as was mentioned above
[17:14] <shakes808> make your own UI ;P
[17:14] <shakes808> :P
[17:15] <brousch> Bitbucket has browser browsing of repo and source
[17:15] <jrwren> they aren't github.
[17:15] <shakes808> isn't that what HTML / Python / Django is for ;)
[17:15] <jrwren> they aren't github.
[17:16] <brousch> shakes808: It turns into a lot of infrastructure you cobble together for each project, which delays actually working on the project
[17:16] <jrwren> github, I wnat the one with the most GeeBees
[17:16] <brousch> Do you want to make your thing, or do you want to make something to help you manage making your thing?
[17:17] <shakes808> you can't make a script to set everything up?
[17:17] <jrwren> rofl.
[17:17] <jrwren> this is SSooooo analogous to "stack overflow is lame, I could make that in a few hours"
[17:19] <brousch> Shakes, sure you can make a script to cobble together a git server, trac instance, etc. But your time would be better spent making the thing you want to make instead of a script to setup management tools. Especially when good-enough management tools are available for free
[17:21] <jrwren> shakes808: read this first: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/code-its-trivial.html
[17:24] <brousch> Although if the thing you want to make is an easy to setup project management suite based on open source tools, then go for it ;)
[17:24] <jrwren> yes, please do, because all previous attempts are inadequate.
[17:25] <shakes808> meeting, bbl
[17:25] <brousch> Oh wait, isn't that Launchpad?
[17:26] <MaskedDriver> Lauchpad has always bothered me
[17:26] <MaskedDriver> but it's kinda the standard at this point
[17:26] <brousch> Careful now, that is rick_h_ 's baby
[17:28] <MaskedDriver> is it?
[17:29] <brousch> Adopted
[17:29] <MaskedDriver> I see
[17:29] <rick_h_> yea, wouldn't call it my baby, but is my day job
[17:30] <jrwren> launchpad is open source now.
[17:30] <jrwren> but its not deployable.
[17:30] <MaskedDriver> nice what do you do with it rick_h_?
[17:30] <jrwren> its pretty pathetic when it comes to its deploy story.
[17:30] <jrwren> and I think that is because they really want to sell it.
[17:30] <rick_h_> yea, well it's pretty complicated little beastie
[17:30] <jrwren> but... why would someone buy it when tehre is github?
[17:31] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: I started there in Nov, I'm kind of the JS guru, but do all kinds of things
[17:31] <jrwren> i suppose if you MUST have premise based. But if that is the case, I feel bad for you.
[17:31] <rick_h_> the fancy ajax buglisting stuff was my sqaud, but I came into it late of the project there
[17:31] <rick_h_> the big thing are places using it for the distribution building bits
[17:32] <rick_h_> really, if you don't need bug tracking across distros/versions/packages and the PPA setup it's not that great
[17:32] <rick_h_> but nothing else does the rest of that, so it's what makes ubuntu spin round and round
[17:33] <MaskedDriver> what kind of JS library are you using? Or are you just using straight JS?
[17:33] <rick_h_> YUI
[17:33] <rick_h_> part of my first work was ripping out the last of mochikit
[17:34] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: nice. I'm more of a jquery guy myself, but it's starting to get so bloated
[17:34] <rick_h_> and this week we'll be turning on the JS combo loader to LP beta users which should be nice
[17:34] <rick_h_> well, I'm a jquery hater, so let me know when you need talking out of it :)
[17:34] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: probably never, but thanks ;)
[17:35] <brousch> rick_h_: If bloat is his issue, would you send him to YUI?
[17:35] <rick_h_> yes, YUI helps with that. :)
[17:35] <rick_h_> since you only include the parts you need per page
[17:35] <rick_h_> see combo loader
[17:35] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[17:36] <brousch> Sounds complicated
[17:36] <rick_h_> it is, it's always easier to concat everything into one file and include it
[17:36] <MaskedDriver> brousch: not really. jQuery UI allows you to do stuff like that too
[17:36] <rick_h_> hardly ever a best practice
[17:36] <rick_h_> some, you can't do things like drop out the event subsystem, etc
[17:37] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: yeah
[17:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: how can you hate on jquery?
[17:37] <brousch> Why is it so rare for the best practice to be the easiest way of doing something?
[17:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: it's actually more I hate the jquery user vs jquery itself. And the jquery ecosystem.
[17:37] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: but my forte is back-end php development. Not front-end, and jQuery was the first one I dabbled in so it's natural for me to use.
[17:37] <jrwren> ah, ok.
[17:37] <rick_h_> brousch: because that's the way the world works.
[17:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: how do you do selectors?
[17:38] <rick_h_> jrwren: var node = Y.one('#someid');
[17:38] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: $('.thisclass').someEvent();
[17:38] <jrwren> ah, so YUI has it too. cool!
[17:38] <rick_h_> http://www.jsrosettastone.com/
[17:38] <jrwren> meh.
[17:38] <jrwren> i was a prototype and scriptaculous user years ago. Why do i have to use a new lib for the same lang and same platform every year?
[17:39] <brousch> jrwren: Progress!
[17:39] <MaskedDriver> jrwren: almost all libraries work about the same way, just a modified version of document.getelementbyid()
[17:40] <Blazeix> MaskedDriver: you're going to get a rick_h_ rant whether you want it or not.
[17:40] <Blazeix> i predict
[17:40] <rick_h_> hey, I've been very good so far :)
[17:41] <rick_h_> thoguh mention logic-less templates at me for a while and I'll go boom!
[17:41] <Blazeix> hah
[17:42] <brousch> Logic does not belong in the template!
[17:42] <rick_h_> making jump through all these @#$#@ hoops just to do a: if obj.method() print obj.method()
[17:42] <brousch> You're doing it wrong!
[17:43] <jrwren> sure, they WORK tehe same way, but each has completely different api. all because every year some new killer feature comes about.
[17:43] <snap-l> rick_h_ isn't satisfied until his templates are turing-complete.
[17:43] <rick_h_> but finally think I have the right syntax for this crap:  '{{#errors}}{{get_error "name"}}{{/errors}}'
[17:43] <rick_h_> that translates (somehow) into errors.get_error('name')
[17:43] <rick_h_> but noooo, I can't just type errors.get_error('name')
[17:43] <jrwren> django template?
[17:44] <jrwren> that is rediculous.
[17:44] <rick_h_> handlebars in JS
[17:44] <jrwren> and so close to XML without being XML, I'd argue it is worse.
[17:44] <rick_h_> which is 5x better than mustache...
[17:44] <snap-l> rick_h_: But I'll bet it can do a sweet todo list.
[17:44] <snap-l> in 5 lines of code
[17:44] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[17:44] <rick_h_> snap-l: and then you'll switch to using it? :P lamo
[17:45] <snap-l> rick_h_: ONly if they implement a GTD method
[17:45] <rick_h_> cheap shots ftw!
[17:45] <snap-l> I can get $.09 back on a $.10 cheap shot. :)
[17:51] <snap-l> Hmm, this is not right
[17:51] <snap-l>         self.assertEqual(fields['negative_one'], '-1')
[17:51] <snap-l>         self.assertEqual(fields['negative_one'], '0')
[17:52] <snap-l> should I be using assertIn?
[17:53] <Blazeix> you probably shouldn't be having a key named 'negative_one', for starters :P
[17:53] <snap-l> Blazeix: Trust me, this is the least of the sins
[17:54] <snap-l> it's for a field that is always set to -1 for compatability.
[17:55] <snap-l> shoot, I think I know what's the matter. n/m
[18:02] <snap-l> Ah, I'm dense.
[18:02] <snap-l> needed to have test in the name of the file
[18:03] <snap-l> so it wasn't running at all
[18:03] <brousch> That counts as a passing test, right?
[18:03] <snap-l> thought it would run if it was in tests directory
[18:03] <snap-l> well, was about to give up on the whole thing when self.assertEqual(2 + 2, 3) seemed to pass
[18:22] <brousch> Just had some random geeker come to the office to tell me about how his email was rejected when sending to us. I stopped him after about a minute of his rambling and told him we use Google Apps. He left quickly
[18:23] <brousch> Very strange encounter
[18:27] <MaskedDriver> brousch: looks like something that should go on Computer Stupidities
[18:27] <MaskedDriver> http://rinkworks.com/stupid/
[18:28] <brousch> He wasn't clueless. He knew what he was talking about, but thought we self-hosted.
[18:32] <_stink_> wrong building?
[18:32] <brousch> No, right place
[18:33] <brousch> He assumed some spam filter or something on our servers was the problem. "Google Apps" were the magic words.
[18:59] <jrwren> can I use enumerate in a generator exp to gen a list of tuples ?
[18:59] <jrwren> e.g. x = dict( ( i+2, j*2 ) for (i,j) in enumerate(something) ) )
[18:59] <jrwren> ?
[19:00] <rick_h_> yea, no reason not to. (yield (i,k) for i,k in enumerate(list))
[19:00] <rick_h_> sorry, you get the idea
[19:00] <jrwren> do I have ot use yield there?
[19:00] <jrwren> I can't get the syntax correct.
[19:00] <rick_h_> no, the () is enough I believe
[19:00] <jrwren> gah, got it.
[19:01] <jrwren> so much () it may as well be lisp.
[19:01] <rick_h_> yea
[19:01] <rick_h_> just tested it out here w/o the yeild
[19:02] <jrwren> and then if your coding standard is 80 column, you are SCREWED
[19:02] <rick_h_> no, you can break in the ()
[19:02] <jrwren> ah, so I can. not bad then.
[19:02] <rick_h_> yea
[19:02] <jrwren> yeah, that is actually readable. *sigh*
[19:02] <rick_h_> :)
[19:02] <jrwren> i'd probaby love it if I wasn't used to C#'s LINQ for the same thing.
[19:02] <rick_h_> but yea, if it gets compliated enough the rule is just to break down and write a function with a yeild
[19:03] <rick_h_> and use it as a generator
[19:03] <jrwren> but I supposed the ugly part of linq is this exp would end with ToDictionary(...)
[19:03] <jrwren> yeah, its not THAT complex.
[19:03] <rick_h_> right, agree
[20:03] <rick_h_> ummm...I'm just not sure what to say about this: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/04/orvillecopter-takes-flight-cat-run-over-by-car-gets-extra-life-as-a-remote-controlled-helicopter/
[20:04] <brousch> rick_h_: It's called up-cycling. Look into it.
[20:06] <brousch> I'm using the same principles to build a shed from dog poop in my backyard
[20:09] <brousch> I'm hoping one of the dogs dies soon so I can turn it into a bike for my kid.
[20:09] <shakes808> HA HA
[20:09] <shakes808> nice
[20:13] <shakes808> Anyone want to build a quadcopter?
[20:13] <shakes808> lol
[20:23] <MaskedDriver> shakes808: kinda
[20:25] <jrwren> YAPWTFM - yet another python wtf moment.
[20:25] <jrwren> re.match v. re.search. WTF?!?!?
[20:27] <shakes808> MaskedDriver: Ironically, my buddy works for a micro processor company and he is about to make one. I sent it that link for some ideas lol
[20:28] <shakes808> I will have to see how far he is lol
[20:36] <brousch> OK, I'm back into the Django TDD Tutorial. It seems like every line of actual code has 10 lines of test code. Is that normal?
[20:43] <jrwren> not IME
[20:47] <jrwren> jor	you really need gigabit.  nice btrfs writeup
[20:51] <brousch> OK, maybe more like 3 lines of test code for every 1 line of real code
[20:51] <jcastro> jrwren: that is gigabit
[20:51] <shakes808> have a good night
[20:51] <jcastro> if you think you'll get near real-world gigabit over a file transfer I have a bridge to sell you
[20:51] <jcastro> jrwren: also, holy hell houses are cheap in ypsilanti
[20:52] <brousch> That's because it is Ann Arbor's ghetto
[20:53] <jrwren> jcastro: yup, but ypsi is ghetto.
[20:54] <jrwren> jcastro: there is beautiful stuff there, but there are also some bad neighborhoods.
[20:54] <jcastro> some parts look nice
[20:54] <jcastro> yeah
[20:54] <jrwren> i can at least max out my disks so that they are the bottleneck when using gigabit.
[20:55] <jrwren> SMB2 is pretty fast, even without jumbo frames.
[21:02] <jcastro> I have 6TB of stuff
[21:02] <jcastro> even esata is slow, lol
[21:02] <jcastro> <-- daddy needs thunderbird
[21:02] <jcastro> sorry, thunder_bolt_ I mean
[21:08] <jrwren> i have 3TB of stuff.
[21:08] <jrwren> maybe i'm not adding my numbers correctly.
[21:09] <jrwren> I just recall being very happy with gbit and copying a CD iso in under 10sec and a DVD in under a min.
[21:09] <jrwren> but i guess 1000 of those would still take 16 hrs.  so never mind me.
[23:55] <jrwren> i'm putting off rebooting my home server, but I really want to drop a card in it to prep for world ipv6 day.
[23:55] <jrwren> what is a hacker to do?