[01:24] <^AT^> Hello everyone,
[01:24] <^AT^> Ubuntu mantic-server-daily and 23.10 server Raspberry Pi preinstalled image has some issue that breaks some deployments. Image contains pre-seeded "/etc/machine-id" and /var/lib/dbus/machine-id files. This means all instances deployed from this image will have the same machine-id and all randomly generated attributes based on machine-id.
[01:24] <^AT^> In my case,  all systems deployed from 23.10 image generate the same MAC addresses for network bridges with the same names, making them inaccessible due to MAC address conflicts.
[01:25] <^AT^> Does anyone see the similar issue?
[12:15] <faekjarz> How do you tell nmcli not to use a pager? (TERM=dumb is not an option, because i want color) …is there a not-a-pager pager, surrogate thing?
[15:26] <Joly0> Hey guys, can i ask questions here about ubuntu server on a visionfive 2?
[15:26] <Joly0> I mean, is this the correct place to ask questions about it?
[16:37] <tomreyn> Joly0: this is a good place to ask questions about ubuntu server on any supported platform.
[16:38] <tomreyn> for more generic (non platform specific) questions, you could also try #ubuntu


[01:20] <protonchris> @date
[01:21] <protonchris> @schedule
[01:21] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
[11:01] <gary4gar> !meet
[11:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about meet - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[14:33] <emonkey> @schedule
[14:33] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu Community Council meeting | 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
[18:56]  * heno waves
[18:56]  * ogasawara waves
[18:56] <pedro_> hello!
[18:56]  * stgraber too
[18:56]  * cliebow cliebow too
[18:56] <davmor2> Hello everybody
[18:57] <heno> liw doesn't seem to be on-line
[18:57] <bdmurray> howdy
[18:57] <heno> it's 21.00 for him though
[18:57] <heno> ok, let's start
[18:57] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:57] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:57. The chair is heno.
[18:57] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:58] <heno> first some admin: can we do meeting minutes on rotation?
[18:58] <heno> I seem to be very bad at doing them
[18:59] <heno> In return I'll make sure the agenda is out the day before each time :)
[18:59] <ogasawara> heno:  what's required, just sending a summary to distro-team ml?
[19:00] <heno> ogasawara: yes, just the agenda + what we decided
[19:00] <heno> it should go to ubuntu-qa as well
[19:00] <ogasawara> heno: ok, I can do it for today's meeting
[19:00] <heno> ogasawara: thanks!
[19:01] <heno> [TOPIC] SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)
[19:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)
[19:01] <heno> what is the current SRU backlog?
[19:01] <davmor2> bug 133944
[19:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133944 in kdepim "package kitchensync 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/apps/ksync/ksyncui.rc', which is also in package ksync" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133944
[19:02] <liw> oh, a summary to the mailing list? I didn't do that last week
[19:02] <heno> Is there anyone other than the QA team doing these now?
[19:02] <bdmurray> None of those bugs have test cases
[19:02] <heno> (mvo was doing them before)
[19:02] <bdmurray> One person is doing some universe sru verification
[19:03] <heno> bdmurray: and that would usually be the responsibility of the bug-fixer?
[19:03] <heno> (writing a test case)
[19:03] <bdmurray> Right, that is part of the SRU process and should be done by the person who uploaded the package to proposed
[19:04] <bdmurray> 133944 looks fairly obvious but I'm not certain about the other 2
[19:04] <pedro_> the flash one looks like an installation issue, i can give it a try
[19:04] <heno> ok, I'll post a clarification somewhere
[19:04] <pedro_> it's a universe one but anyways, don't mind
[19:05] <heno> perhaps we should change the tag from needs-verification to needs-testcase in those cases
[19:05] <bdmurray> I think it is important that the process is followed though
[19:05] <heno> bdmurray: agreed, esp now that it's distributed over more people
[19:06] <heno> I have raised the manpower issue here with Matt
[19:07] <heno> thanks, bdmurray i'll report back to Riddell
[19:07] <heno> [TOPIC] Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution
[19:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution
[19:07] <heno> just a bit of advertising for those :)
[19:08] <heno> how was yesterday's bug day?
[19:08] <bdmurray> We had about 15 participants - based off a review of the wiki page
[19:08] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080205
[19:09] <bdmurray> I have some numbers about how many each person did too
[19:09] <heno> I'll discuss the 'no package' question with the LP team on friday
[19:10] <pedro_> bdmurray: do you have a bughelper query for that ?
[19:10] <bdmurray> pedro_: I have some nasty script for parsing the wiki page
[19:10] <pedro_> ah ok
[19:11] <heno> bdmurray: hm, should we publish such stats at the end of bug days?
[19:11] <heno> how do people feel about that?
[19:11] <davmor2> heno: might be good for selfesteem
[19:11] <bdmurray> I think it could promote some healthy competition
[19:11] <liw> I think publishing stats would be good
[19:12] <pedro_> indeed
[19:12] <liw> not because of competition, but because it shows that they have an actual, positive impact
[19:12] <heno> ok, I guess it can just go on the wiki page
[19:12] <heno> and people can optionally blog about it
[19:12] <bdmurray> I think mailing the bugsquad / desktop team with information about the top triager (not Canonical) would be good too
[19:13] <heno> (I'm setting up my blog today ...)
[19:14] <heno> while on that topic, let's skip to ' 5-A-Day initiative'
[19:14] <heno> [TOPIC]  5-A-Day initiative
[19:14] <MootBot> New Topic:   5-A-Day initiative
[19:14] <bdmurray> Regarding the nopackage bugs I wonder if we are enabling people by filing their bug to a package
[19:15] <liw> bdmurray, you mean it would be better to teach them to select the package for their bug themselves?
[19:15] <heno> bdmurray: there is that worry. I would rather have it set automatically to incomplete with an email explaining why
[19:16] <heno> that way it will eventually expire too
[19:16] <bdmurray> liw: Right a mindset like "I don't need to find the package because somebody will do it for me"
[19:16] <davmor2> bdmurray: I think the problem is that people just don't know what's broken so don't know what to report it to
[19:16] <liw> I've felt like that, early on in my Ubuntu career
[19:17] <liw> (one of the nice things about reportbug in Debian is that it chooses the package (and reports the version) automatically)
[19:17] <heno> I don't think we can just ignore existing bugs, but we need a way to reduce it happening
[19:18] <heno> liw: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[19:18] <heno> i'm hoping that will help
[19:19] <heno> we should try to find out where people get their bug filing info from
[19:19] <bdmurray> I agree that can finding the right package can be hard but we have done some work at documenting how to determine the source package and there are some packages which can get general bug reports and then set to a more specific package if necessary
[19:19] <heno> what link do they follow to ...+filebug
[19:19] <heno> do they navigate ubuntu.com, LP or google?
[19:20] <heno> we should then make sure those paths have the right info
[19:20] <bdmurray> heno: would the lp team have information on that?
[19:20] <heno> I can ask them and IS as well
[19:20]  * heno makes note
[19:20] <bdmurray> Additionally knowing how many people use the advanced file bug form would be good to know.
[19:21] <bdmurray> Since that has no guided bug filing instructions
[19:21] <heno> yep
[19:21] <pedro_> and it's _really_ difficult to find
[19:21] <heno> we could also try a survey of 50 random bug filers
[19:22] <davmor2> so five-a-day?
[19:23] <heno> indeed; this is an initiative to get a broader group of people to do some bug work daily
[19:23] <heno> developers and power users for example
[19:24] <heno> we should have a 5-a-day link button for blogs
[19:24] <heno> like we are planning for the poll
[19:24] <davmor2> it's an interesting concept and it sounds plausible
[19:25] <heno> so ideas for key bug categories to look at are welcome
[19:25] <heno> both 'easy' and 'hard' tasks
[19:26] <heno> can we leverage the bug day preparations?
[19:26] <heno> perhaps mop up bugs not covered on the day?
[19:27] <davmor2> heno: it might also be an interesting way to get the no-package bugs linked to a package.  If people like me search for 5 no-package bugs ask for more info where needed and add a package
[19:28] <davmor2> then the experts can take over :)
[19:28] <heno> I guess this is mostly ready for launch; I'll check with dholbach
[19:28] <bdmurray> Right, I think the nopackage bugs can be very easy sometimes
[19:28] <bdmurray> And moving them to the proper package is very helpful
[19:29] <heno> because then the responsible teams may actually look at them :)
[19:29] <heno> [TOPIC] Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)
[19:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)
[19:29] <heno> (moving on)
[19:29] <davmor2> bdmurray: That's what I'm thinking if you get newer people to start there where it's useful and easy plus not so many questions to the devs for help
[19:30] <heno> thanks to those who have added tracker info!
[19:30] <pedro_> oh there's a Debian one
[19:30]  * pedro_ looks at liw
[19:30] <pedro_> ;-)
[19:30]  * heno looks at liw too :)
[19:31] <liw> actually there _isn't_ a Debian one, as far as I can see :)
[19:31] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream
[19:31] <heno> just a stub link
[19:31] <liw> writing one is already on my todo list
[19:31] <heno> \o/
[19:31] <pedro_> woohoo
[19:31] <heno> thanks :)  i know very little about the Debian BTS
[19:32] <heno> I'll have a go at OOo
[19:32] <bdmurray> Isn't the Linking bit http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Watches ?
[19:32] <heno> the 'issue tracker'
[19:32] <bdmurray> re OOo we are pretty divergent from upstream as I understand it
[19:32] <heno> yes, we should just link to that and not repeat it
[19:33] <heno> bdmurray: yeah, I'll need to get calc's advice
[19:33] <heno> Bugs/Watches looks very nice, btw
[19:34] <bdmurray> Well, that's mostly due to ogasawara
[19:35] <heno> looks like a team effort on the get info page
[19:35] <heno> so once those are in  shape we can promote them a bit
[19:35] <heno> next -
[19:35] <heno> [TOPIC] QAPoll testing
[19:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  QAPoll testing
[19:36] <heno> nand, stgraber?
[19:36] <stgraber> ok, so we updated QA-Poll and QA-Tracker yesterday and QA-Poll is now ready for a private beta
[19:36] <heno> what the current URL?
[19:36] <stgraber> The idea part being: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/
[19:37] <stgraber> and the bug part: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/
[19:37] <heno> looks lovely with the artwork :)
[19:38] <stgraber> yes, and it's also full of JS :)
[19:38] <heno> stgraber: are you happy with those URLs or should it be poll.qa.u.c/bugs ?
[19:39] <stgraber> so nand would like you to use it and report any usability issues, bugs, english problems, layout, feature, ...
[19:39] <heno> and .../ideas
[19:39] <stgraber> that's the next point, we don't like the current URLs and would like to move to sub-domains
[19:39] <heno> I spoke with the sysadmins and we'd like to keep it under qa.u.c
[19:40] <heno> to avoid to much proliferation of domains
[19:40] <stgraber> ok, that was nand's question
[19:40] <stgraber> so we'll have two sub-domains, one for the idea tracker and one for the bug part
[19:40] <heno> poll.qa.ubuntu.com/<poll-name> seems good, no?
[19:41] <stgraber> IIRC he sent you a mail about that, I'm not sure of the exact domains he had in mind
[19:41] <bdmurray> davmor2: can you add information about your video card to bug 173130?  'lspci -vvnn' would be great
[19:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173130 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "hardy 64bit live cd GFX issues" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173130
[19:41] <stgraber> heno: we can't do that with Drupal
[19:41] <stgraber> it'll have to be poll.qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/idea/x
[19:41] <heno> stgraber: yes I think he wanted something.ubuntu.com for each
[19:41] <davmor2> bdmurray: I got 3 different ones that it doesn't work on properly do you want them all?
[19:41] <stgraber> though having two different sub-domains will let us default on the right module
[19:42] <heno> stgraber: but we can do it with apache though right?
[19:42] <stgraber> heno: indeed, but we can also do it on qa.ubuntu.com, it would have been shorter and easier to remember on qa.ubuntu.com though
[19:42] <heno> can we do bugs.poll.qa.u.c ?
[19:43] <stgraber> heno: we would have to see how easy it's with the URL rewritting as Drupal is also using quite a lot of it and we don't want a conflict :)
[19:43] <stgraber> heno: that seems a bit hard to remember, no ?
[19:43] <bdmurray> davmor2: yes
[19:43] <heno> stgraber: right let's investigate and discuss on ubuntu-qa
[19:43] <davmor2> bdmurray: np
[19:44] <stgraber> next point is the testing window and release date
[19:44] <stgraber> our current plan is to have it tested from after-Alpha4 (now) till after-Alpha5
[19:44] <heno> should we start filling up with semi-real data during testing?
[19:45] <heno> so we can launch with some real examples
[19:45] <heno> stgraber: sounds good
[19:45] <stgraber> if no major bug have been reported, we'll upload the fix, test it for 1-2 extra days and send the anouncement
[19:45] <davmor2> heno: made more sense to me to do that than not
[19:45] <stgraber> I think that the DB will be wiped before making it public
[19:46] <stgraber> but we can add some examples in the installation scripts so they are added the same time we make it public
[19:46] <davmor2> that's okay it can be added again :)
[19:46] <heno> ok, we should put in 2-3 real samples before launch though
[19:46] <stgraber> but real examples even for testing are a good idea as it's the best way to find bugs :) (test with real data)
[19:46] <heno> I'll show this to the LP bugs team on Friday
[19:47] <heno> so, please test!
[19:47] <stgraber> a question I have is : How will we anounce it ?
[19:47] <stgraber> do we have a good way to advertise it widely (!= blog post on the planet)
[19:47] <heno> we should coordinate a bit with the community team
[19:47] <davmor2> stgraber: with trumpets and fanfares of course
[19:48] <heno> I'll talk with marketing on Friday too; we might do a press release
[19:48] <stgraber> sounds good
[19:48] <heno> if they think it's appropriate
[19:49] <heno> just so we get the /. effect :)
[19:49] <heno> any other topics?
[19:49] <stgraber> you'll have to warn the sysadmins too in this case :)
[19:49] <heno> our time is soon up
[19:49] <davmor2> stgraber: I think the more useful thing at first which will get real data in is let the bug team/other ubuntu dev mailing lists know, then move on to the real public.
[19:51] <heno> #endmeeting
[19:51] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:51.
[19:51] <heno> thanks everyone!
[19:51] <davmor2> bye
[19:51] <pedro_> thanks
[19:51] <heno> and thanks ogasawara for doing the summary :)
[19:51] <ogasawara> heno: np
[19:52]  * liw goes back to meddling with hardware
[19:57] <nixternal> hola RichEd and ogra_cmpc!
[19:57] <RichEd> hi there nixternal
[19:57] <ogra_cmpc> heya
[19:58] <RichEd> you can raise the edubuntu handbook stuff at the meeting ... or else sidebar if you want
[19:58] <nixternal> oh boy do I have some work, I mean questions, for you two :)
[19:58] <RichEd> but open forum is better :)
[19:58]  * RichEd closes his window
[19:58] <nixternal> well, this is related to the Offical Ubuntu Book
[19:58] <nixternal> hahah
[19:58] <RichEd> :) nixternal ... you can thank me for setting jono onto you
[19:59] <nixternal> actually, it could be fairly quite easy and may be best to communicate via email with it honestly
[19:59] <nixternal> RichEd: actually I got attacked by mako and the editor, which probably got it from jono :)
[19:59]  * stgraber waves
[19:59] <RichEd> nixternal: get the issues on the table in the meeting, and we can go into details by email
[19:59] <juliux> hey nixternal
[20:00] <RichEd> if we expose the "inner workings" of our documentation, perhaps some people may volunteer to help a bit
[20:00] <nixternal> hiya juliux
[20:00] <RichEd> LaserJock was bemoaning the lack of contributions last meeting
[20:00] <nixternal> man, I am in documentation overload :)
[20:01] <RichEd> hence let's see if there are any interested community members
[20:01]  * RichEd was about to get a pre-meeting coffee when nixternal jumped on him
[20:01] <RichEd> back in 3 min ...
[20:01] <RichEd> ogra: kick off with technical when you are ready
[20:01] <nixternal> there are so many people who want to contribute, getting them interested in documentation though has proved difficult over the many years I have been doing it
[20:01]  * ogra_cmpc joins the coffee effort
[20:01] <ogra_cmpc> sorry ...
[20:01]  * nixternal pours in some more Dr. Pepper
[20:05]  * RichEd ajusts his away status and looks around for ogra or even ogra_cmpc
[20:06] <ogra_cmpc> there we go
[20:06] <ogra_cmpc> not much on my side ... i packaged up the new classmate scripts for hardy, started a skeleton package for edubuntu-content-server ...
[20:07] <RichEd> perhaps i should announce first that this is an official Edubuntu Community Council meeting ... and if anyone is here for approval, we'll do that after the tech stuff
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> did lots of bugfixes on ltp anhd work on consolekit integration of ldm
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> *ltsp
[20:07]  * juliux notes that this is an historical edubuntu weekly meeting;)
[20:08] <ogra_cmpc> the consolekit stuff is critical, without support for it no administrative apps will work at all on ltsp clients
[20:09] <ogra_cmpc> well,n not much more has happened rec4ently on the tech side
[20:09] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: cmpc's keyboard is way too small it seems :)
[20:09] <ogra_cmpc> i didnt use it for a while it always takes me a while to get used to it again
[20:10] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber: an update on italc FOR THE OTHERS ?
[20:10] <ogra_cmpc> OOPS
[20:10] <ogra_cmpc> sorry :)
[20:10] <stgraber> yes, so I worked a bit with italc's upstream and we had most bugs fixed
[20:10] <stgraber> he'll release a new "official" tarball this week
[20:10] <stgraber> the only remaining problem and not a small one is the demo mode
[20:11] <ogra_cmpc> yay
[20:11] <stgraber> which basically just crashes the client part of italc as soon as a teacher starts it
[20:11] <stgraber> italc's upstream is currently having exams and then doesn't have time to investigate
[20:11] <ogra_cmpc> any news from QT upstream about that ?
[20:11] <stgraber> and my C++/QT knowledges are approching 0 so I can't really help at that
[20:12] <stgraber> QT upstream says that it's likely a software bug, so not their problem :) (different wording of course)
[20:12] <ogra_cmpc> pffft
[20:13] <stgraber> so if any of you happens to have some knowledges of QT/C++, especially the QImage thing that seems to crash, please ping me :)
[20:13] <stgraber> what we have to decide anyway is what to do with iTalc, can we just disable the demo mode for the time being
[20:13] <stgraber> and eventually re-enable it if we happen to receive a patch in time for the release
[20:13] <stgraber> I don't think we want to have tcm for 3 more years, do we ?
[20:14] <nixternal> have you asked Riddell to take a look at it? I could scower it, but he would know way more Qt than I would
[20:14] <ogra_cmpc> remind me tomorrow to ping \sh_away about it :) he loves to save people in desparate situations and knows C++ and QT :)
[20:15] <stgraber> nixternal: he told me to ask on #kde-devel, but as iTalc isn't a kde app but only QT one, I asked in some QT channels
[20:15] <ogra_cmpc> the only prob i see is that it will prevent the MIR from being accepted if we have that bug .... beyond that its a bug and can be fixed after FF
[20:15] <nixternal> stgraber: roger that
[20:16] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I also need a new version from upstream as I won't upload a pre-release to universe with main in mind (especially as the pre-release isn't published anywhere)
[20:17] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber: so what is the release upwstream wants to publish next week ?
[20:17] <ogra_cmpc> a pre-release or something official ?
[20:17] <stgraber> something official including most of my patches + some extra bug fixes
[20:17]  * stgraber is checking upstream website
[20:18] <ogra_cmpc> well, lets get it in then ... we still have more than a month to fix that bug, that should suffice unless its something disastrously broken in the general design
[20:20] <stgraber> doesn't seem like something big
[20:20] <ogra_cmpc> right
[20:20] <stgraber> as it seems to work fine on some other distros
[20:21] <ogra_cmpc> thats my gut feeling as well
[20:21] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, it does ?
[20:21] <ogra_cmpc> might be our xorg or vnc implementation then
[20:21] <stgraber> yes, upstream hasn't been able to reproduce yet
[20:21] <ogra_cmpc> hey johnny
[20:22] <johnny> hi
[20:22] <nixternal> ooh, a Maryland guy
[20:22] <johnny> what is a cmpc ?
[20:22] <stgraber> I had a quick look at QT's source code and it was full of 15/16/32bit graphic stuff
[20:22] <ogra_cmpc> johnny: ClassmatePC
[20:22] <stgraber> so may be related to our xorg (vnc being included in italc's code)
[20:23] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, can you force it to 16bit ?
[20:23] <ogra_cmpc> in the code
[20:23] <ogra_cmpc> i bet that would help :)
[20:24] <RichEd> hi Pascal_1
[20:24] <ogra_cmpc> anyway ... italc is waiting for next upstream, i'll try to catch \sh
[20:24] <Pascal_1> hi !!
[20:24] <ogra_cmpc> more for tech ?
[20:24] <RichEd> Pascal_1: f.y.i. meeting format is 1st session : tech (mostly related to development)
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> btw did anyone test the new ltsp setup on the ubuntu alternate cd ?
[20:25] <RichEd> then next session : community / web sites / news ... mroe general discussion
[20:25] <juliux> ogra_cmpc, i plan to do that in the next daies
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> ah, great
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> i'd love to get feedback about the installer
[20:26] <cliebow> ogra_cmpc, ill try it pretty quick here..
[20:26] <ogra_cmpc> thanks :)
[20:26] <juliux> ogra_cmpc, shoud we use a daily build?
[20:26] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: nope, I poked you about that but you weren't around
[20:26] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: so I didn't test edubuntu's Alpha4 (we were already short for testing ubuntu :))
[20:26] <ogra_cmpc> juliux: i havent tested any dailiews since alpha4
[20:27] <juliux> ok i will use alpha4;)
[20:27] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: do we now have a menu option on the alternate ?
[20:27] <ogra_cmpc> i can say that alpha4 worked :) but thats all atm
[20:27] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber: not yet, cjwatson_ wants to redesign teh menu in general first
[20:27] <ogra_cmpc> if thats in order we'll have a menu option
[20:28] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: ok, I saw he sent a couple of change to gfxboot-theme-ubuntu yesterday (language selection, theme, ...)
[20:28] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: what's the extra parameter to start the ltsp part ?
[20:28] <ogra_cmpc> oh, i didnt notice ... i'll look at that
[20:29] <ogra_cmpc> hit f6 and add ltsp-client-builder/run=true
[20:29] <stgraber> ok, will give it a try today or tomorrow as I need to reinstall my test computer
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> i only test on virtualbox atm so there might be lots of cases with real hw i dont catch while testing, who knows
[20:30] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: any chance all of this stuff can be done by next week? I am approaching the official book deadline :p
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: i doubt that but i can ask
[20:30] <nixternal> haha
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[20:31] <juliux> ogra_cmpc, i will test it on a transtec mini pc;)
[20:31] <nixternal> I would love to see Mr. Watson's face when you ask :)
[20:31] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[20:31] <ogra_cmpc> better not ... he's way to busy ....
[20:31] <nixternal> hey, for those of you testing LTSP from the alternate CD, could you do a mini write up of the steps you took to get it setup...that is of course if it has changed much since Feisty
[20:31] <ogra_cmpc> (its about time to think about PAs for our managers :P )
[20:32] <nixternal> and if possible, any screenshots in 1024x768 format :)
[20:32] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: if you have two NICs ther is nothing to set up
[20:33] <nixternal> well, I am going over the Edubuntu chapter int he book, and there is quite a bit of write up on setting up LTSp
[20:33] <nixternal> tis why I asked
[20:33] <ogra_cmpc> tweaking != setup ;)
[20:34] <nixternal> true
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> ltsp as is should work out of the box with any system with two NICs if you install from teh alternate CD
[20:34] <stgraber> as I'll be installing on real hardware it'll be hard to provide screenshots but I'll try to think about it next time I do it virtually
[20:34] <nixternal> OK, so all of the tweaks that are currently in the book are good to go, just need to add information about the alternate CD
[20:35] <ogra_cmpc> if you have on;ly one NIC it tells you what to do in the installer, thats probably woth a screenshot
[20:35] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I'm installing with one so I usually trigger 90% of the bugs that way :)
[20:35] <nixternal> heh
[20:36] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: shoot, I just looked on my floor and seen a server doing absolutely nothing but looking sad...looks like I can setup LTSP here and play
[20:36] <ogra_cmpc> the hints in teh book are actually for fine tuning ... usually if stuff doesnt work out of the box in a usable default setup we consider that a bug
[20:36] <nixternal> derrr me :)
[20:37] <nixternal> well, I have LTSP and the Alternate CD covered...just have a few more things to ask about Edubuntu today for the book, but I will wait until it is my turn :)
[20:38] <ogra_cmpc> if you set up ltsp *after* installation on a normal ubuntu desktop box https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall applies
[20:38] <nixternal> thanks
[20:39] <ogra_cmpc> anhd probably its worth a note that you need to install ubuntu-desktop if you want ltsp to run on a server installation
[20:40] <nixternal> got it
[20:41] <ogra_cmpc> anything else for tech ?
[20:41] <ogra_cmpc> and where is highvoltage ??
[20:41] <ogra_cmpc> he asked for an EC meeting and now we dont have quorum due to him missing in action :P
[20:42] <nixternal> hehe
[20:42] <ogra_cmpc> if there is nothing else for tech ....
[20:42]  * ogra_cmpc hands over the mic to RichEd
[20:42] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: any new apps for Edubuntu that can/should be hit on in the book?
[20:42] <nixternal> italc?
[20:42] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: not this time round ... apart from italc
[20:43] <nixternal> OK..I will put some italc info in there then
[20:43] <ogra_cmpc> but we're not 100% sure it will make it zet
[20:43] <ogra_cmpc> yet
[20:43] <nixternal> OK..I will hold off
[20:43] <nixternal> what about artwork?
[20:43] <RichEd> well let's move onto documentation: nixternal get all of your issues / requirements out so they get into the log
[20:43] <nixternal> still looking the same?
[20:43] <nixternal> RichEd: groovy
[20:43] <RichEd> nixternal: wallpaper will change
[20:43] <nixternal> LTSP and Alternate CD have been covered
[20:43] <nixternal> when will the wallpaper change occur?
[20:44] <ogra_cmpc> .oO(why do you english guys have to flip y and z on kezboards... baah)
[20:44] <nixternal> I would like to possibly take some new screenshots for the book
[20:44] <nixternal> hehe
[20:44] <juliux> ogra_cmpc, because the germans have äöü ;)
[20:44] <juliux> ogra_cmpc, and they want to sell more keyboards;)
[20:45] <ogra_cmpc> now that sounds plausible !
[20:45] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[20:45] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: we dont have any new artwork yet and its likely that we'll slip the deadline with the wallpaper
[20:46] <nixternal> OK
[20:46] <ogra_cmpc> (since thats a volunteer contribution)
[20:46] <ogra_cmpc> the otrher artwork will follow ubuntu but have adjusted colors as usual
[20:47] <ogra_cmpc> (gdm, ldm usplash)
[20:47] <nixternal> OK...now if I got this right, Edubuntu is no longer a Live CD or install CD, it is just an addon to Ubuntu?
[20:47] <nixternal> the CD that is
[20:47] <ogra_cmpc> right
[20:47] <nixternal> so people should get Ubuntu first and then install Edubuntu off of the CD
[20:47] <ogra_cmpc> edubuntu-desktop (the metapackage) will just depend on ubuntu-desktop
[20:48] <RichEd> nixternal: let me give you some info on that ... hang on one sec
[20:48] <ogra_cmpc> right
[20:48] <nixternal> RichEd: thanks
[20:48] <RichEd> nixternal: perhaps you should also introduce the byline we will be adopting for 8.04:
[20:48] <RichEd> Edubuntu 8.04 - Eubuntu Education Edition
[20:48] <RichEd> it would be very good if you could get that as a heading for the edubuntu chapter / section
[20:48] <nixternal> OK, that was actually my next question
[20:48] <ogra_cmpc> install ubuntu, pop in the addon cd and g-a-i will offer you to install additions
[20:48] <juliux> hmm for linuxtag i have registred an edubuntu booth
[20:48] <nixternal> Jordan and I spoke of that week after the last Edubuntu meeting because I seen you all talking about it
[20:48] <nixternal> so groovy
[20:48] <juliux> should i change that to ubuntu education?
[20:48] <ogra_cmpc> juliux: fine for now
[20:49] <RichEd> hang on ...guys let me get the story across
[20:49] <RichEd> :)
[20:49] <juliux> ok
[20:49] <RichEd> here's the reasoning ... Edubuntu was it's own variant ... it's own build, install etc.
[20:49] <ogra_cmpc> the branding will change over time, as RichEd will explain
[20:49] <nixternal> err, Edubuntu Education Edition or Ubuntu Education Edition?
[20:49] <RichEd> now it moves sensible to be an add-on ...
[20:49] <RichEd> *sensibly
[20:49]  * juliux loves edubuntu as a name;)
[20:49] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: the latter indeed :)
[20:50] <RichEd> we (education) will get a rock solid engine ... ubuntu ... and concentrate on the education layers on top of the ubuntu base
[20:50] <RichEd> LTSP moved into ubuntu
[20:50] <nixternal> OK, so that was a typo then by RichEd..just wanted to make sure before you seen it published incorrectly in the book :)
[20:50] <RichEd> so the base has what we need
[20:50] <RichEd> hence the move to an add-on CD installed on top of ubuntu
[20:51] <RichEd> and all support / dev issues below education go to the full ubuntu team
[20:51] <RichEd> and education specific stuff goes to ogra
[20:51]  * highvoltage is here
[20:51] <RichEd> --
[20:51] <ogra_cmpc> zaz
[20:51] <highvoltage> sorry
[20:51]  * juliux waves to highvoltage
[20:51] <ogra_cmpc> hrm
[20:51] <ogra_cmpc> yay even
[20:51] <RichEd> so seeing as we are no longer our own distro ... or install ... we're adding the byline:
[20:52] <RichEd> Ubuntu Education Edition
[20:52] <highvoltage> hi juliux
[20:52] <highvoltage> I just had to help someone with car troubles, glad I still made it in time, did I?
[20:52] <RichEd> and as we move forwards, anyone can start with an ubuntu install, and then select optional education additions/enhancements straight from the CD
[20:52] <juliux> RichEd, will the website,logo, also move or only the distribution name?
[20:53] <RichEd> so they could add edu apps, but not the desktop
[20:53] <RichEd> etc.
[20:53] <ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: you missed tech completely ... shame on you ... stand in the corner and wear that funny hat :P
[20:53] <RichEd> so to wind up, and answer the edubuntu brand questions :)
[20:53] <ogra_cmpc> highvoltage: indeed you did :)
[20:53] <RichEd> - if the users installs ubuntu
[20:54] <RichEd> - and then takes the education add on cd and selects the bundle "edubuntu"
[20:54]  * highvoltage puts on the funny hat
[20:54] <ogra_cmpc> lol
[20:54] <RichEd> it will install our full end config, apps, wallpaper, icons etc.
[20:54] <RichEd> so edubuntu will remain as the name of the full bundled solution
[20:54] <highvoltage> ah cool, so they would still end up with a recognisable "edu" desktop
[20:55] <RichEd> ^ does that all make sense ... nixternal .. highvoltage ... others ?
[20:55] <nixternal> RichEd: most definitely does...you don't know how greatful I am for that explanation
[20:55] <RichEd> highvoltage: yes, think of edubuntu as the school install
[20:55] <ogra_cmpc> edubuntu-desktop wont go away as metapackage
[20:55] <nixternal> you just hit every question I had on the head with it
[20:55] <highvoltage> well, I understand it. I'm not sure if that qualifies as making sense. I'd have to say yes.
[20:56] <highvoltage> RichEd: I think upon release, there might be lots of noise about this, and possibly some fears
[20:56] <RichEd> but if me as a daddy at home wants to add the full (selected & supported & maintained) suite of edu apps for my kids to use ... i'd probably do just that, and leave my ubuntu look & feel
[20:56] <nixternal> at least I have something to go back to the publisher with now and make up some plans on moving forward these next couple of days
[20:56] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal: we might not call the addon cd edubuntu anymore next release though ....
[20:56] <highvoltage> RichEd: I think everyone will have to pitch in a bit to avoid confusion
[20:56] <RichEd> highvoltage: so we will not *change* the name
[20:56] <ogra_cmpc> but even then the edubuntu package set will persist
[20:56] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: I will worry about hardy+1 if and when they ask me to update the book again :)
[20:56] <highvoltage> RichEd: and to emphasise that this will not be a regression for Edubuntu, but a change that will allow Edubuntu to accelerate in its goals
[20:57] <ogra_cmpc> it gives us an immense amount of spare CD space
[20:57] <ogra_cmpc> (even though the current situation might not look like that :) )
[20:57] <highvoltage> yes, that is awesome!
[20:57]  * mathiaz waves at ogra_cmpc
[20:57] <highvoltage> why? is it currently padded with lanugage packs?
[20:58] <ogra_cmpc> but we have 90 langpacks eating up our space atm
[20:58] <ogra_cmpc> hey mathiaz
[20:58] <RichEd> here's the suggested name migration route:
[20:58] <RichEd> Edubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition
[20:58] <RichEd> Ubuntu Education Edition 8.10 - Edubuntu
[20:59]  * ogra_cmpc is still for replacing "Edition" with "Enhancements" :)
[20:59] <RichEd> think of this benefit to us ... by 8.10 *any* ubuntu user will be able to select a simple option from the default desktop saying ... add Ubuntu Education Components
[20:59] <RichEd> they could then choose: edubuntu bundle
[20:59] <ogra_cmpc> i think there is a server team now ...
[20:59] <nijaba> Hello
[20:59] <ogra_cmpc> we need to move i guess
[20:59] <RichEd> or any components thereof
[21:00] <ogra_cmpc> err
[21:00] <ogra_cmpc> server team meeting
[21:00] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[21:00] <stgraber> hmm, our meetings are only 1hour long now ? :)
[21:00] <highvoltage> RichEd: have you seen http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2053 ?
[21:00] <RichEd> is there one ? nothing on the fridge for tonight
[21:00] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber: one in a month is
[21:00] <mathiaz> RichEd: the fridge is broken every start of the month
[21:00]  * RichEd loads the link
[21:01] <juliux> RichEd, i am fine with everything as long we keep the name edubuntu a live
[21:01] <juliux> life
[21:01] <ogra_cmpc> alive ?
[21:01] <akincer> Starting soon?
[21:02] <mathiaz> akincer: couple of minutes. Just give some time to the edubuntu team to finish off their meeting
[21:02] <ogra_cmpc> ok, seems we should make room then, i didnt know there is the server meeting *today* actually ...
[21:02] <RichEd> juliux: certainly ... edubuntu has a history and champions ... emotional value ... user recognition ... reviewer blogs ... distro history
[21:02] <RichEd> no one will drop all of that in any way
[21:02] <RichEd> :)
[21:02] <juliux> good
[21:02] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: do we need to move ?
[21:02] <ogra_cmpc> RichEd: well, it would be polite i guess
[21:02] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[21:03] <RichEd> [21:03] <mathiaz> RichEd: yes
[21:03] <ivoks> yes
[21:03] <highvoltage> thanks
[21:03] <nijaba> Hey yo can stay if you want :)
[21:03] <juliux> ok lets move;)
[21:03] <soren> Yes.
[21:03] <soren> :)
[21:03] <RichEd> okay .., sorry for the overrun ... edubuntu people back in your channel !
[21:03] <highvoltage> sorry for being late, I'll carry an IRC device next time I have to run out!
[21:03] <ogra_cmpc> nijaba: double meeting in one room ?
[21:03] <akincer> sorry, I just buzzed over from other things
[21:03] <ogra_cmpc> wow, nice challenge
[21:03] <nijaba> nope, but I thnk with sometime have things in common...
[21:03] <soren> It sure would be nice if the fridge could get updated so ubotu could do the /topic thing to let you guys know that it's time to leave :)
[21:04]  * RichEd moves back to #edubuntu
[21:04]  * ogra_cmpc moves back to #edubuntu as well and points others there
[21:04]  * nijaba waves at ogra_cmpc RichEd
[21:04] <faulkes-> alright, I think we can call the meeting to order, etc..
[21:05] <zul> hello
[21:05]  * mathiaz thanks ogra_cmpc and RichEd and waves at the edubuntu team :)
[21:05]  * RichEd waves back on his way out
[21:05] <mathiaz> all right server team - let's get things started
[21:06] <ScottK2> OK
[21:06] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[21:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:06. The chair is mathiaz.
[21:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:06] <mathiaz> So the agenda for today is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[21:06] <mathiaz> akincer: are you around for some time ?
[21:06] <akincer> For at least an hour
[21:06] <akincer> more if need be
[21:06] <mathiaz> akincer: ok.
[21:07] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:07] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080130
[21:07] <mathiaz> I talked with dholbach about the mentoring program
[21:08] <mathiaz> I was about to send an email to ubuntu-server with a proposal but it didn't reach the top of my todo list yet.
[21:08] <faulkes-> ok
[21:09] <mathiaz> I've got some ideas and will write down a proposal taking into account suggestion made by ScottK2, dholbach and other during the last meeting.
[21:09] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server
[21:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server
[21:10] <mathiaz> I think all the other actions have been done
[21:10] <ScottK> I need to follow up on mine
[21:10] <mathiaz> and their results should be discussed during this meeting
[21:11] <ScottK> OK.  I can do it later
[21:11] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Bacula package inclusion/exclusion
[21:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bacula package inclusion/exclusion
[21:11] <mathiaz> So zul sent an email to ubuntu-server about bacula.
[21:11] <mathiaz> zul: could you give a short list of the reason of the rejection ?
[21:12] <zul> sure basically there a couple of reasons
[21:12] <zul> 1. there were alot of unanswered bug reports from debian
[21:12] <zul> 2. there were a couple of security updates that never got addressed by the debian maintainer until recently
[21:13] <zul> 3. the number of depends it has in universe
[21:14] <akincer> By couple, do you mean few?
[21:14] <zul> to adress point #2 more in detail basically bacula uses the mysql passwords on the command line for processing data etc
[21:14] <akincer> Couldn't resist :)
[21:14] <nijaba> Aaron in ML: "isn't this a problem if and only if default and less secure (or bad) configurations are used and/or the database server powering Bacula is a shared system with non-trusted users?
[21:14] <nijaba> "
[21:14] <mathiaz> just to make things clear, the subject of this rejection is *not* to drop bacula from the ubuntu archive.
[21:15] <mathiaz> bacula will still be available for ubuntu users.
[21:15] <akincer> And my understanding is, and someone interject if it is flawed is that you only need to create a .my.cnf file to address the security issue. Couldn't be much simpler
[21:15] <jdstrand> zul: how are those passwords sent-- shell script?
[21:15] <zul> jdstrand: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446809 for more detail
[21:15] <ubotu> Debian bug 446809 in bacula-director-mysql "CVE-2007-5626 unauthorized disclosure of information via clear-text passwords used in command line arguments" [Important,Open]
[21:15] <dendrobates> are passwords on the command line required?
[21:15] <dvl> no
[21:16] <ivoks> i think that can be overriden with better packaging
[21:16] <ivoks> as someone said .my.cnf
[21:16] <akincer> Since this is, in effect, an issue with how external programs interface with Mysql and not a product of Bacula itself, one need only read up on Mysql security to know that
[21:16] <jdstrand> zul: thanks
[21:17] <mathiaz> zul: IIUC the default installation of bacula would use clear text password
[21:17] <zul> correct AFAIK
[21:17] <dvl> mathiaz: only for database backup, not for anything else.
[21:17] <mathiaz> zul: so to address the security concern, the bacula package should be modified to use a different way to handle passowrd.
[21:17] <nijaba> is it dues to packaging or to logic?
[21:17] <zul> correct
[21:17] <nijaba> *due
[21:17] <ivoks> packaging
[21:17] <mathiaz> nijaba: it's a packaging issue.
[21:17] <nijaba> can we fix it?
[21:17] <ivoks> cause mysql knows about my.cnf
[21:18] <ivoks> so, why not use it?
[21:18] <akincer> Seems perfectly logical and prudent
[21:18] <ivoks> maybe generate random password, put it in bacula's home and that's it
[21:18] <nijaba> but in any case that leave 2 & 3.  Would they be enough all by themselves
[21:18] <nijaba> ?
[21:18] <zul> basically Im looking at ways to do that
[21:18] <mathiaz> zul: great.
[21:19] <mathiaz> so about point 2
[21:19] <mathiaz> ah no point 2 is the security issue
[21:19] <nijaba> err, meant 1 & 3
[21:19] <mathiaz> point 1 is debian maintainer not responsive
[21:19] <dvl> any other option to relying upon debian packages?
[21:20] <mathiaz> zul: is the maintainer opened to ubuntu cooperation ?
[21:20] <akincer> I am not in a position to address that, is anyone else?
[21:20] <ScottK2> Unless someone on the team is willing to step up and really focus on this package.
[21:20] <zul> mathiaz: yes he is
[21:20] <nijaba> zul: so in what isn't he responsive?
[21:20] <jdstrand> 1 and 2 are linked really
[21:20] <zul> however since the package is in universe there hasnt been alot of interactioin between him and ubuntu developers
[21:20] <dendrobates> regardless, it is unlikely that this will be worked out by FF.
[21:21] <akincer> If I may, I believe it would be worth it. There are some very attractive features Bacula has that just work
[21:21] <jdstrand> it sounds like if we wanted it, it would have to basically be maintained by ubuntu until the dm became more active
[21:21] <mathiaz> a side question: Does MIR report need to be accepted before FF ?
[21:22] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't think that the DM is not inactive.
[21:22] <dendrobates> I believe so, but an exception can be requested.
[21:22] <mathiaz> It's just that the way he works doesn't necessarly fit the ubuntu workflow.
[21:22] <mathiaz> He tends to work on bugs by batch, every few months.
[21:23]  * jdstrand equated lots of unanswered bug reports and slow security response with not super active, but doesn't know the dm of the package..
[21:23] <jdstrand> (or the package)
[21:23] <mathiaz> A point I'd like to add wrt to 1 is that bacula may be a good solution - so it may be worth taking some responsbility in maintaining the package
[21:24] <nijaba> mathiaz: for 5 years?
[21:24] <mathiaz> nijaba: it's that - or no solution at all
[21:24] <akincer> mathiaz: I'm an IT Manager and I can tell you that for me, it's worth it
[21:24] <nijaba> akincer: thanks for this...  very valuable
[21:24] <mathiaz> nijaba: If we want to support tape backup, I don't see another package (except amanda)
[21:25] <ivoks> well, does anyone does any serious backup without bacula? :)
[21:25] <mathiaz> I've used both amanda and bacula and I was very satisfied with bacula
[21:25] <nijaba> what about mondo? Have not had time to look...
[21:25] <akincer> bacula does tapes just fine
[21:25] <zul> ivoks: alot of people do
[21:25] <mathiaz> nijaba: I'm not sure that mondo supports tape
[21:26] <mathiaz> zul: well - you can always write you own script with tar
[21:26] <ivoks> :)
[21:26] <dendrobates> large shops will almost always use commercial products.
[21:26] <mathiaz> But I think that bacula is a good solution if we want to support tapes.
[21:26] <zul> mathiaz: that could work ;)
[21:26] <nijaba> dendrobates: non FOSS oriented one, yes.
[21:26] <akincer> mathiaz: Nice until someone asks for a file whose name they don't quite remember nor what folder it's in
[21:27] <dendrobates> yes.  Legato and such
[21:27] <soren> dendrobates: If they do so because they want to, fine. If they do it because we can't provide them with a free alternative, that makes me cry :(
[21:27] <nijaba> soren: thanks :)
[21:27] <mathiaz> akincer: you refer to tar scripts, right ?
[21:27] <soren> dendrobates: I see what you're saying, but if we want to change that...
[21:27] <akincer> yep
[21:27] <tjaalton> bacula seems very interesting.. saying this as one who has purchased netvault years ago :)
[21:28] <tjaalton> commercial ones are very expensive
[21:28] <dendrobates> I'm not saying we don't need a F/OSS backup solution
[21:28] <nijaba> I beleive we need both anyway, in the end
[21:28] <mathiaz> so to keep things moving, what about point 3 - number of depends in universe
[21:28] <mathiaz> ?
[21:28] <mathiaz> zul: what's the list ?
[21:29] <zul> mathiaz: at least 6
[21:29] <akincer> I have yet to find a compelling reason to use a commercial backup package over Bacula and I've worked with several
[21:29] <mathiaz> zul: or at least an overview
[21:29] <zul> dbconfig qwt libraries wdwidgets sqllite sqllite3
[21:29] <ivoks> mtx
[21:29] <zul> these are the direct ones
[21:30] <zul> mtx is already in main
[21:30] <ivoks> oh, sorry
[21:30] <mathiaz> akincer: agreed. My point is that point 1 could be addressed as - bacula is a good backup solution so it's worth investing time to support it and cooperate with debian.
[21:30] <soren> zul: sqlite3 shouldbe in main, too.
[21:30] <nijaba> is sqllite a hard requirement or an option?
[21:30] <akincer> mathiaz: Gotcha. I figured the big issue would be deps anyway
[21:30] <dvl> option
[21:30] <mathiaz> nijaba: it's an option.
[21:30] <soren> Oh, it's not.
[21:31] <dvl> sqlite is used by default if you do not select one of MySQL/PostgreSQL
[21:31] <soren> Ah, the source package is.
[21:31] <mathiaz> you need a database to run bacula - and you can use mysql, postgresql or sqlite
[21:31] <nijaba> so if it is an option, agin it is a packaging issue
[21:31] <dendrobates> If we feel that this is that important, zul could work on this and we can get an exception to get it in after FF.
[21:31] <mathiaz> nijaba: yes. dependencies are mostly packaging issues.
[21:31] <dvl> QWT is only required for the GUI part of Bacula, BAT
[21:31] <mathiaz> dvl: yes.
[21:32] <mathiaz> so the GUI portion could stay in universe.
[21:32] <dvl> full disclosure, I'm a Bacula developer.
[21:32] <mathiaz> I've never used it
[21:32] <akincer> and as I understand it, you can do that part on the desktop separate anyway
[21:32] <dvl> correct
[21:32] <akincer> BAT rocks
[21:33] <mathiaz> zul: wdwidgets ?
[21:33] <dendrobates> dvl: are you the debian mainrtainer
[21:33] <dvl> dendrobates: no
[21:33] <akincer> full disclosure: I invited him to make sure I didn't say something untrue
[21:33] <zul> mathiaz: wxwidgets2.6
[21:33] <mathiaz> zul: ok - that's also part of the GUI then.
[21:33] <mathiaz> zul: but it may be needed to build the package.
[21:33] <zul> correct..
[21:34] <zul> we need to look at it more closely
[21:34] <mathiaz> zul: yes
[21:34] <ScottK> You may have to split the source package then.  I'm pretty sure you don't want wxwidgets in Main.
[21:34] <dendrobates> dvl: you were included on the mail exchange though.  What is upstreams opinion here?
[21:34] <mathiaz> and for dbconfig, it should be dropped.
[21:34] <dvl> dendrobates: I was on that email.
[21:35] <dvl> dendrobates: Upsteam opinion: we're keen to work with Ubuntu, we have lots of Ubuntu users and if there's anything I can do to push/prod/poke people to do stuff, let me know.  Not sure if that's the type of opinion you were asking for.
[21:35] <mathiaz> So it seems that point 3 could be adressed by doing some packaging work.
[21:36] <mathiaz> dvl: it's always good to have upstream opinions.
[21:36] <nijaba> anyone up for it?
[21:36] <mathiaz> jdstrand: do you have any question wrt to security/support for 5 years from upstream ?
[21:36] <dendrobates> dvl: that is the one.  I wanted to know if you were willing to work with us to ensure our concerns are aleviated.
[21:36] <dvl> mathiaz: If there are specific things you want an opinion on, ask me a direct question.  :)
[21:36] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I have not reviewed the package
[21:37] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I meant more about general policy
[21:37] <zul> nijaba: i guess that would be me
[21:37] <dvl> dendrobates: Yep, if anyone from ubuntu wants to email me directly, I can raise the issues with the rest of the Bacula team.  We're an easy going lot.
[21:37] <jdstrand> I do have concerns about the debian maintainer not being particularly active, but interms of security updates, as long as upstream is responsive, then things should be ok
[21:37] <akincer> I would also add that I have yet to go to #bacula with a question that wasn't answered pretty quickly
[21:37] <mathiaz> dvl: how long do you tend to support an existing version ?
[21:38] <dvl> jdstrand: Bugs in Bacula, whether security or not, are handled pretty quickly.
[21:38] <nijaba> and how long for a given version?
[21:38] <dvl> mathiaz: We started back porting bugs some time ago, but we prefer people to upgrade if they can.
[21:38] <dvl> nijaba: no specific time period.
[21:38] <nijaba> dvl: until next version or later?
[21:39] <dvl> nijaba: later.
[21:39] <tjaalton> dvl: what about running different versions on the network, like having an older server and clients with a newer bacula
[21:39] <jdstrand> dvl: your bug tracking requires an account to view?
[21:39] <dvl> tjaalton: policy is that older clients should always work with newer servers
[21:39] <ralfgr> To view bug reports, you can log in as anonymous/anonymous.
[21:39] <tjaalton> dvl: but not the other way around?
[21:39] <dvl> jdstrand: anonymous/anonymous works
[21:40] <jdstrand> dvl: :)
[21:40] <dvl> tjaalton: a newer server will work with an older client so long as the server does not use the newer feature. This is under control of the sysadmin.
[21:40] <tjaalton> dvl: I mean a newer client with an older server :)
[21:40] <dvl> tjaalton: Noted.  Same issue.
[21:41] <dvl> tjaalton: It'll work.
[21:41] <tjaalton> ok, cool
[21:41] <mathiaz> Ok. So to summarize
[21:41] <mathiaz> it seems that the main problems are packaging issues
[21:41] <dvl> tjaalton: what does not work is using a newer server with an older client and expecting the older client to understand new features.
[21:41] <mathiaz> rather than an architectural or logic problem.
[21:42] <ivoks> when is FF?
[21:42] <nijaba> Feb 14
[21:42] <nijaba> Valentine's day :)
[21:42] <faulkes-> excuse the question, FF?
[21:42] <nijaba> Feature Freeze
[21:42] <zul> FF = feature freeze
[21:42]  * faulkes- nods
[21:42] <tjaalton> dvl: that's understandable, I was just concerned that the server usually run an older version so what would happen there
[21:42] <dendrobates> mathiaz: we need to ensure that security fixes will be backported for a long enough time.
[21:42] <faulkes-> thanks
[21:42] <tjaalton> +s
[21:43] <mathiaz> dendrobates: right.
[21:43] <jdstrand> dendrobates, mathiaz: fwiw, there have been 2 CVEs-- one is the command line password
[21:43] <akincer> Surely this can be arranged
[21:43] <dendrobates> last FF was my wifes birthday, she is going to think I'm making excuses.
[21:43] <dvl> tjaalton: usually it is the server that is upgraded more often than the client. My server is 2.2.8, my windows client is 2.0.3...
[21:44] <ivoks> jdstrand: that last one we can eliminate...
[21:44] <jdstrand> ivoks: exactly
[21:44] <mathiaz> so any action on this ?
[21:44] <akincer> dendrobates: That's why you arrange to celebrate on a different day without giving this as the reason :)
[21:44] <ivoks> i'll work on bacula tonight
[21:44] <mathiaz> someone needs to look at the packaging issues
[21:44]  * soren hugs ivoks
[21:44] <ivoks> and try to fix couple of packaging bugs
[21:44] <dvl> ivoks: contact me here if you need anything
[21:44] <ivoks> including that mysql one
[21:44] <dvl> or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:45] <dendrobates> ivoks: isn't it already night for you?
[21:45] <tjaalton> dvl: heh
[21:45] <ivoks> dendrobates: yeah, and i have exam tomorrow... but FF is to close
[21:45] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main
[21:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main
[21:45] <dvl> tjaalton: server upgrade is just one box... people tend to lag on upgrading clients.
[21:45] <jdstrand> the other one was patched in 13 days of discovery (insecure temp files)
[21:45] <ivoks> dvl: ack
[21:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: I think bacula needs to be merge from debian.
[21:46] <zul> it does 2.2.8 is sitting there since the end of january
[21:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: so you could try to address the mentionned issue while doing the merge
[21:46] <ivoks> mathiaz: i'll take a good look at it
[21:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: great ! thanks
[21:46] <ScottK> ivoks: I'd also look to splitting the client and server into two source packages to minimize the number of build depends you need to drag into Main.
[21:46]  * nijaba hugs ivoks
[21:47] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:47] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Developer Week
[21:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Developer Week
[21:47]  * dendrobates gives ivoks permission to fail his exam.
[21:47] <soren> Ok go.
[21:47] <akincer> Thanks for the time everyone. I have to go do some work now
[21:47] <ivoks> dendrobates: woho! :)
[21:47] <mathiaz> As you may know, there will be a Ubuntu Developer Week soon.
[21:47] <mathiaz> thanks akincer
[21:48] <nijaba> thanks to the bacula guys :)
[21:48] <dvl> :)
[21:48] <mathiaz> so the question is whether we want to have a session specific to the server team
[21:48] <mathiaz> if so, what would be the content ?
[21:48] <nijaba> when is it?
[21:48] <mathiaz> the current schedule is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
[21:49] <mathiaz> 18/02 to 22/02
[21:49] <akincer> mathiaz: You're welcome
[21:50] <mathiaz> I wouldn't mind running a session, but I'd like to have some input on what I can talk about.
[21:50] <nijaba> soren: would a virtualization class be a good topic for devs?
[21:50] <soren> nijaba: I hope so. I scheduled one.
[21:50] <mathiaz> I don't think the topic should be about packaging server application.
[21:51] <faulkes-> well, from a content view, I'd have to ask, how familiar are people with the server side of ubuntu
[21:51] <nijaba> duh
[21:51] <sommer> mathiaz: how about upcoming features?
[21:51] <soren> nijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.
[21:51] <ivoks> maybe one about ubuntu-server in general?
[21:51] <ivoks> we need some publicity :)
[21:51] <zul> mathiaz: how about an intro to the server team
[21:51] <nijaba> soren: I can second him on this
[21:51] <faulkes-> that was my thinking
[21:51] <mathiaz> ivoks: right.
[21:51] <dendrobates> one on security would be nice.
[21:51] <mathiaz> about feature, I don't think it's relevant as the target audience is about potential contributors
[21:52] <mathiaz> it's not about users.
[21:52] <sommer> ah, good call
[21:52] <mathiaz> so presenting new features is not really the point.
[21:52] <mathiaz> unless to get people on board for testing.
[21:52] <faulkes-> well, intro to ubuntu-server, goals/objectives, team members, etc
[21:52] <nijaba> what about one on OpenLDAP 2.4?
[21:53] <mathiaz> soren: what do you plan to talk about during your virtualization session ?
[21:53] <ivoks> i suggest an insight in how development is done, where we need help, what are we good... it would be great if all of us could come...
[21:53] <mathiaz> nijaba: you mean - using it ?
[21:53] <soren> Don't know.
[21:53] <soren> 22:51:15 < soren> nijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.
[21:53] <soren> :)
[21:53] <mathiaz> soren: what about using the new virtualization stuff in hardy in your developement work ?
[21:53] <dendrobates> I think we need kvm testers, so one thing would be a kvm tutorial using libvirt and virtio.
[21:54] <boredandblogging> someone email me when plans are finalized so I can put it in the UWN
[21:54] <mathiaz> soren: how to use different vm to have different distro ready to use
[21:54] <soren> That could work.
[21:54] <mathiaz> soren: for bug triaging, feature development and package testing.
[21:54] <nijaba> we need some test on ubuntu-vm-builder as well :)
[21:54] <soren> Let's discuss this after the meeting. We don't want to reveal all of it now.
[21:54] <soren> Noone will show up.
[21:55] <dendrobates> boredandblogging: you want to know what our topics are?
[21:55] <boredandblogging> dendrobates: looking at the prep wiki page, just a paragraph summary on the purpose and who should attend would be great
[21:56] <nxvl_work> oh crap i forgot the meeting
[21:56] <mathiaz> boredandblogging: you man wanna ask dholbach about this
[21:56] <mathiaz> boredandblogging: he is the grand master of ceremony for the whole week
[21:57] <dendrobates> guys, I have to go.
[21:57] <ivoks> dendrobates: take care
[21:57]  * mathiaz waves at dendrobates
[21:57] <soren> dendrobates: o/
[21:57] <dendrobates> Ok, sæt i gang!
[21:57] <soren> :)
[21:58] <faulkes-> mathiaz: how comfortable do you feel with ivoks suggested topics, I think they are fairly good ones to address
[21:58] <faulkes-> both from a presentation pov but also a bit of publicity to get others involved
[21:58] <mathiaz> faulkes-: yes - A general introduction to the server team
[21:59] <mathiaz> the whole point of the week is to get more people onboard.
[21:59] <ivoks> right
[21:59] <ivoks> so don't give talks about stuff we did
[21:59] <ivoks> but about stuff we need and didn't do
[21:59] <ivoks> :)
[21:59] <mathiaz> So my initial thoughts was to go over the GettingInvolved and Roadmpa pages and answer question
[22:00] <boredandblogging> mathiaz: sure, I'll email dholbach
[22:00] <mathiaz> And maybe by that time, we'll have something for mentoring.
[22:01] <nxvl_work> i think it would be a great place to introduce the mentoring program, if we have one planed by the date
[22:01] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.
[22:01] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.
[22:01] <nijaba> thanks for taking care of it mathiaz
[22:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[22:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[22:02] <faulkes-> I'm more than happy to review material you want to present, as a new person to the group, I can probably give some good suggestions on what you write up
[22:02] <faulkes-> mathiaz: if that's of interest to you prior to your presentation
[22:02] <mathiaz> faulkes-: excellent. I'll ping you somehow.
[22:02] <mathiaz> faulkes-: I was about to ask you about the mentoring program also - but that's for later.
[22:03] <mathiaz> On the apache front,
[22:03] <mathiaz> apache 2.2.8 has been synced from debian.
[22:04] <mathiaz> I talked to slangasek about building openssl with tlsext enabled. It's seems to need some work
[22:04] <mathiaz> and needs to be coordinated with debian.
[22:04] <mathiaz> so I'm not sure we'll get it done before FF
[22:04] <nijaba> tood bad for SNI :(
[22:05] <mathiaz> without it, SNI cannot be enabled in apache2.
[22:05] <mathiaz> so I think we'll have to defer SNI support for apache2 to the next release.
[22:05] <nijaba> right...
[22:06] <mathiaz> there are around 490 packages that would need to be rebuilt we need to transition openssl
[22:07] <soren> ...if we bump the soname.
[22:07] <mathiaz> ivoks: state of SASL ?
[22:07] <mathiaz> soren: right. There are some disscussion whether this is required or not.
[22:07] <ivoks> mathiaz: i got feedbeck from lamont
[22:07] <ivoks> mathiaz: i suggest we wrap it up and patch the tasksel
[22:07] <mathiaz> soren: but I don't think we'll have time before FF
[22:08] <ivoks> mathiaz: i don't recommend patching postfix's init script
[22:08] <soren> mathiaz: I would even say that I'm quite sure we won't have time before FF.
[22:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: so we'd use a postinst script in the mail server task in tasksel.
[22:09] <ivoks> mathiaz: right
[22:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: do you have something ready for this ?
[22:09] <ivoks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10629598/tasksel.diff
[22:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10629598/tasksel.diff
[22:09] <ivoks> it's maybe old
[22:09] <ivoks> but basicaly, that's it
[22:11] <ivoks> changes include postfix with sasl over dovecot, maildir and tweaked dovecot and postfix for better compatibility
[22:11] <lamont> (sounds right)
[22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: great. Have you checked wether the patch applies to the current version of tasksel ?
[22:12] <ivoks> mathiaz: no, i'll do that tonight
[22:12] <ivoks> could someone apply it before it gets outdated again? :D
[22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: great. Could you attach the new patch to the bug and subscribe u-main-sponsor ?
[22:12] <ivoks> sure
[22:13] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - it will to get in before FF, which is one week
[22:13] <mathiaz> [ACTION]: ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support
[22:13] <MootBot> ACTION received: : ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support
[22:14] <mathiaz> ScottK: how far is libdb4.2 from being dropped from the archive ?
[22:15] <ScottK> Hu
[22:15] <ScottK> Hi even
[22:15] <ScottK> It's not.
[22:15] <ScottK> openldap still needs it
[22:15] <ScottK> It's looking more like Hardy +1.
[22:16] <ScottK> 4.3, 4.4, and maybe 4.5 are reasonable targets.
[22:16] <mathiaz> ScottK: right - it's blocked on openldap working with db4.6.
[22:16] <ScottK> So I'm going to update the wiki page to look at those instead.
[22:16] <ScottK> Exactly.
[22:16] <mathiaz> ScottK: excellent !
[22:16] <ScottK> The other blocker I've run into is libdb4.x-ruby
[22:16] <ScottK> The upstream for that only supports up to 4.4.
[22:17] <ScottK> I've uploaded a libdb4.6-ruby which is in bin new right now.
[22:17] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.
[22:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.
[22:17] <ScottK> It works in my testing equivalently to 4.3/4.4 except transactions.
[22:17] <mathiaz> ScottK: so 4.3 and 4.5 are good candidates ?
[22:17] <ScottK> And 4.4
[22:18] <ScottK> I haven't done a detailed analysis yet of all of them 4.3 looks totally doable.
[22:18] <mathiaz> ScottK: ah ok. Understood.
[22:18] <mathiaz> ScottK: how does this play with FF ?
[22:18] <ScottK> I don't think it does.
[22:19] <mathiaz> ScottK: great. So work on this can be done after FF.
[22:19] <ScottK> Yes.
[22:19] <mathiaz> ScottK: great ! Thanks for the update.
[22:19] <ScottK> For the Ruby situation, my thought is we keep libdb4.2-ruby and libdb4.6.  If anything pops up needing transaction support, they can use the 4.2 one.
[22:20] <ScottK> Hopefully upstream will get sorted for hardy +1 so the 4.2 ruby lib can go away then too.
[22:20] <mathiaz> sommer: how is the domentation doing ?
[22:21] <sommer> mathiaz: pretty much the same as before
[22:21] <sommer> new upgrading subsection :)
[22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: great. How are you affected by FF ?
[22:22] <sommer> may need to get exceptions for the virtualization section, likewise-open integration, and bacula
[22:23] <sommer> I wouldn't think that would bee too much of an issue
[22:23] <sommer> I'll email the doc ml and see what the think
[22:23] <mathiaz> sommer: so there is the same kind of freeze on documentation starting from next thursday ?
[22:23] <sommer> mathiaz: yep
[22:23] <mathiaz> sommer: ok. good.
[22:23] <nijaba> sommer: isn't your milestone string freeze?
[22:24] <sommer> major new sections anyway
[22:24] <sommer> nijaba: mathew east proposed the new freeze schedule to help conentrate on qa
[22:24] <nijaba> sommer: thanks
[22:25] <mathiaz> soren: any update on the virtualization front ?
[22:25] <sommer> here are some more details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule
[22:25] <soren> Yeah, I think I've managed to work out the last dependency I need for it to really shine.
[22:26] <soren> Now it just needs to land in the repository so I can start using it.
[22:26] <soren> Namely a usable version of dnsmasq and netcat.
[22:26] <soren> The former for providing DNS and DHCP services to virtual networks (yay), and the latter to enable qemu+ssh:// type URL's for libvirt. *Very* handy.
[22:27] <ivoks> very nice!
[22:27] <mathiaz> soren: seems great. And all should get in before FF ?
[22:27] <soren> mathiaz: All should get in before I stop working tomorrow.
[22:28] <mathiaz> soren: once it's in there, virtualization should be feature complete for hardy.
[22:28] <nijaba> ubuntu-vm-builder is feature complete on my side.  I've checked in a new version to allow complex partitioning.
[22:28] <mathiaz> nijaba: awesome.
[22:29] <soren> mathiaz: Great!
[22:29] <nijaba> I hope soren can find 1 day to integrate before FF
[22:29] <mathiaz> Seems like all of the virtualization stuff is ready for more widespread testing
[22:29] <mathiaz> which other channels can we use to ask for more testing ?
[22:30] <soren> Planet ubuntu usually does the trick.
[22:30] <mathiaz> we've published something in UWN
[22:30] <nijaba> We need VMWare ESX testers
[22:30] <mathiaz> soren: may you could post another blog entry to make it on planet ubuntu ?
[22:31] <soren> mathiaz: That's what I meant :)
[22:31] <mathiaz> soren: ahh. I thought you were refering to your previous post.
[22:31] <soren> Oh. No :)
[22:32] <mathiaz> soren: And I think that your session during Ubuntu Dev Week can also be used to adverstise more testing.
[22:32] <soren> Right.
[22:32] <tjaalton> nijaba: you mean installing on an ESX virtual machine?
[22:32] <soren> Yes.
[22:32] <nijaba> tjaalton: yes
[22:33] <mathiaz> soren: and making sure that the release notes have a section about it.
[22:33] <soren> Yes, that has been neglected :(
[22:33] <tjaalton> ok, we have maybe 80 hosts running on ESX (mostly RHEL, Win), and I have a couple of hosts with dapper.. could try hardy now
[22:34] <nijaba> tjaalton: would be very kind of you
[22:34] <tjaalton> it's been on my list anyway
[22:35] <nijaba> tjaalton: specially JeOS
[22:36] <mathiaz> [ACTION] tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX
[22:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX
[22:36] <tjaalton> :)
[22:36] <ivoks> now you have to do it :D
[22:36] <mathiaz> next topic: windows integration
[22:36]  * nijaba needs to run.  Thanks a lot everyone
[22:36] <tjaalton> aww jeez
[22:36] <tjaalton> :)
[22:37] <soren> Yeah, you don't want to mess with MootBot.
[22:37] <soren> nijaba: See you tomorrow.
[22:37] <ivoks> nijaba: bye
[22:37] <mathiaz> dendrobates has been packaging it
[22:37] <mathiaz> zul and I've started to review it
[22:37]  * nijaba waves
[22:37] <sommer> later nijaba
[22:37] <ivoks> mathiaz: is it good? :)
[22:37] <mathiaz> so it should be uploaded real soon now.
[22:37]  * mathiaz waves back at nijaba
[22:38] <mathiaz> ivoks: so far yes.
[22:38] <mathiaz> ivoks: but I still need to get it tested in windows environment.
[22:39] <mathiaz> so I think that's all for the Roadmpa.
[22:39] <ivoks> umm...
[22:39] <ivoks> one more thing
[22:39] <ivoks> raid-lvm integration
[22:39] <mathiaz> ivoks: yes. it's still on there.
[22:39] <ivoks> as you can see, i didn't do a thing about it
[22:39] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - you've been busy with other things
[22:40] <ivoks> but i do know there is a package in universe
[22:40] <ivoks> partman-auto-raid
[22:40] <ivoks> so it should get into main, and then only thing needed is a recipe
[22:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: so the next step would be to write a MIR
[22:40] <ivoks> so if someone know partman recipes, please... *help* :)
[22:41] <mathiaz> ivoks: could you update the roadmap to add a list of things to needs to be done ?
[22:41] <tjaalton> ivoks: has the recipe format changed? IIRC it has been totally different from the normal format
[22:41] <ivoks> mathiaz: sure
[22:42] <ivoks> tjaalton: i didn't even know there's a 'normal format' :)
[22:42] <tjaalton> ivoks: ok :)
[22:42] <jdstrand> I'll also mention that I wrote the MIR for ufw today
[22:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation
[22:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation
[22:42] <ivoks> uf... so many actions...
[22:43] <mathiaz> jdstrand: have you received more feedback about ufw ?
[22:43] <jdstrand> yes
[22:43] <jdstrand> couple of small things that I fixed
[22:43] <jdstrand> and I also finished ipv6
[22:44] <jdstrand> feedback so far has been positive
[22:44] <mathiaz> jdstrand: great ! So that another feature almost completed for hardy.
[22:44] <jdstrand> it should work well-- I find it quite easy to use :)
[22:44] <ivoks> there are rumors we'll have to go with ipv6 by the end of 2012
[22:45] <mathiaz> jdstrand: well... you wrote it - I hope so
[22:45] <jdstrand> ;P
[22:45] <ivoks> is hardy ready for that?
[22:45] <jdstrand> ivoks: in terms of firewalling, yes
[22:45] <ivoks> i meant more generally...
[22:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - that's a rather broad question.
[22:46] <jdstrand> (I figured, I was just being silly)
[22:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: the kernel should support it.
[22:46] <soren> ivoks: I've never used it, but I'm also not aware of anything in particular blocking it?
[22:46] <jdstrand> it does
[22:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: but I'm sure that are some application that are not
[22:46] <ivoks> i know that kernel does support it, but as mathiaz said, some apps don't
[22:47] <jdstrand> I am pretty sure all our server apps do
[22:47] <soren> IIRC fabbione has been caring for ipv6 since the very beginning.
[22:47] <jdstrand> OTOH
[22:47] <ivoks> well, we can fix them during the release...
[22:47] <jdstrand> (ie the ones on the server cd and tasksel)
[22:48] <ivoks> then just ignore me :D
[22:48] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[22:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[22:48] <mathiaz> someone wants to add something ?
[22:48] <ScottK2> Debian servers support IPv6 well, so we should be in good shape.
[22:49] <tjaalton> well, what about the patch for libpam-ldap?-)
[22:49] <ScottK2> mathiaz: MIR processing seems to have stalled.
[22:49] <mathiaz> ScottK2: pitti said he should start doing it next week
[22:49] <ivoks> zul: could you please tell me the state of drbd in hardy?
[22:49] <ivoks> zul: as a kernel module
[22:50] <mathiaz> ivoks: it's integrated in linux-ubuntu-modules
[22:50] <ScottK2> mathiaz: OK.  I'm a little worried about the state of tasksel and FF.  We still have more mail server work to do.
[22:50] <ivoks> it is? teriffic
[22:50] <ivoks> then i'll write up mir for drbd-utils
[22:50] <mathiaz> ivoks: it's been the case for a few weeks now.
[22:50] <ivoks> (i'm not running hardy on any of my machines :)
[22:50] <mathiaz> ivoks: you should ;)
[22:51] <ivoks> upgrading as we speek :)
[22:51] <tjaalton> ivoks: join us, dogfood is good :)
[22:51] <mathiaz> ScottK2: ivoks is planning to update the patch to integrate dovecot and postifx.
[22:52] <ivoks> we could extend it to amavis... but that could be maybe too much, cause of FF
[22:52] <ScottK> Right.  I'd like to see about integrating amavisd-new too, but until the MIR is done ....
[22:53] <ScottK2> Yes.  My exact concern
[22:53] <mathiaz> well on this point, we'll have to wait for amavis to get included into main.
[22:53] <ivoks> right
[22:54] <faulkes-> question, MIR?
[22:54] <ivoks> main inclusion report
[22:54] <mathiaz> faulkes-: Main Inclusion Report
[22:54]  * faulkes- nods
[22:54] <faulkes-> thanks
[22:55] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:55] <mathiaz> So - to finish - same time, same place next week ?
[22:55] <faulkes-> sounds good to me
[22:55] <ivoks> ack
[22:56] <tjaalton> mathiaz: should I just upload a new libpam-ldap with that patch, or?
[22:56] <faulkes-> that puts it day before FF?
[22:56] <mathiaz> tjaalton: could you send you email to ubuntu-devel ?
[22:56] <tjaalton> sure
[22:56] <mathiaz> faulkes-: yes
[22:56] <tjaalton> more eyes
[22:56] <mathiaz> tjaalton: exactly
[22:57]  * faulkes- nods
[22:57] <mathiaz> Next week, same time, same place.
[22:57] <mathiaz> Thanks all for joining.
[22:57]  * jdstrand waves
[22:58] <mathiaz> Have a good week - see ya around :)
[22:58] <jdstrand> thanks mathiaz!
[22:58] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[22:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:58.
[22:58] <ivoks> fin


[02:57] <jbicha> Robert! where'd you go? :)
[03:32] <duflu> Oh, Mesa 18 is in bionic proposed. Fun times ahead
[06:50] <tjaalton> not before it goes past NEW and compatible nvidia is there
[07:21] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:35] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[07:35] <duflu> tjaalton, did 10-bit support make it in? I couldn't find commits
[07:36] <duflu> (new) commits
[07:36] <oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
[07:37] <duflu> tjaalton, Sorry. Yes it seems it did. I was searching for the wrong string
[07:48] <tjaalton> yup
[08:12] <didrocks> good morning
[08:13] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, ça va?
[08:14] <didrocks> ça va oSoMoN, et toi ?
[08:16] <oSoMoN> didrocks, pas beaucoup dormi parce que Gaia a eu de la fièvre, mais ça va à peu près
[08:16] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[08:19] <didrocks> hey duflu
[08:19] <didrocks> oSoMoN: oh :( hoping she gets better soon!
[08:22] <oSoMoN> she's already much better, fever is gone already, but she stays home today just in case
[08:24] <didrocks> good :)
[08:57] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:58] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:58] <thumper> o/ duflu seb128 didrocks
[08:58]  * thumper is back in his office for 10pm call
[08:58] <thumper> yay
[08:58] <duflu> Hello thumper. I was going to say...
[08:58] <thumper> :)
[08:59] <seb128> hey duflu thumper
[09:00] <didrocks> hey thumper
[09:00] <didrocks> 10pm call, urgh :)
[09:01] <seb128> better than 3am!
[09:01] <thumper> true
[09:01] <thumper> wouldn't go to that
[09:01] <seb128> reminds me of the old times where we rotated team meetings by 6 hours every week to not be unfair to anyone
[09:01] <Laney> OHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[09:02] <seb128> seems that Laney is back! ;)
[09:02] <seb128> Laney, oy oy oy, how are you?
[09:02] <seb128> had fun during your holidays ?
[09:07] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:08] <Laney> yes thanks, was good to hang out with desrt and see all the cool stuff
[09:08] <Laney> also get a bit better at snowboarding, was a bit painful though ;-)
[09:08] <Laney> how are you?
[09:08] <seb128> I'm good, have been sick again with fever/shivering/etc this w.e though
[09:08] <seb128> but it was shorter this time
[09:09] <Laney> :(
[09:09] <Laney> sick128
[09:09] <seb128> I'm better now though :)
[09:09] <didrocks> wb Laney ;)
[09:10] <Laney> hey didrocks!!!
[09:10] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:10] <Laney> ah, and happy valentines day ?
[09:10] <didrocks> Laney: I'm good, thanks
[09:10] <didrocks> glad you enjoyed your holidays :)
[09:13] <Laney> merci merci
[09:14] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[09:14] <oSoMoN> welcome back Laney
[09:14] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
[09:14] <oSoMoN> pas beaucoup dormi, mais on fait aller :)
[09:15] <seb128> oh ? qq de malade chez vous ?
[09:15] <oSoMoN> Gaia a eu de la fièvre cette nuit, mais ça va déjà mieux
[09:15] <Laney> NSA level encryption
[09:15] <Laney> moin oSoMoN
[09:16] <didrocks> ;)
[09:16] <oSoMoN> :)
[09:16] <seb128> oSoMoN, ok, bon ben c'est déjà ça
[09:16] <seb128> Laney, sorry :)
[09:16] <oSoMoN> gotta practice my French, or I'll forget completely
[09:16] <didrocks> ubiquity minimal install is almost done, however the langpacks for thunderbird and libreoffice keep them installed… Hum, need to think about it
[09:19] <seb128> hum, annoying
[09:20] <didrocks> I'm afraid that even if we list them, they will be reinstalled anyway as marked "manually installed"
[09:20] <didrocks> or maybe not, if it's only a purge…
[09:20] <didrocks> hum
[09:20] <didrocks> worth a try
[09:23] <seb128> we could change those packages to not pull into tb/libreoffice which is a bit hackish...
[09:23] <seb128> into->in
[09:24] <didrocks> yeah, anyway, let's try this first attempt already with explicit listing for now
[09:25] <didrocks> but something to keep in mind with the various rootfs mounts as xnox wants in the future
[09:35] <willcooke> duflu, koza - Confirmed your theory.  After reboot, BT Speaker needs to be initiated from the PC *or* if I press the magic button.  Keyboard (K480) reconnects when I hit enter to start logging in (which I assume is the same as "pressing the special button")
[09:35] <willcooke> seb128, jibel ^
[09:35] <willcooke> So for me that's a pass.
[09:35] <willcooke> (the good kind of pass)
[09:36] <willcooke> hi Laney!
[09:36]  * duflu is still testing
[09:37] <seb128> willcooke, thanks for testing, let's see how duflu's testing goes and we should be good to go
[09:39] <willcooke> ohhhhhh. fiddle.
[09:39] <willcooke> I reinsalled this machine with Artful yesterday.  Ignore that
[09:40] <seb128> lol
[09:45] <duflu> Argh. Broken device. Let me fix that first
[09:56] <Laney> mfphfp
[09:56] <Laney> hey willcooke
[10:07] <duflu> seb128, willcooke, koza, jibel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1747354/comments/9
[10:08] <seb128> duflu, sounds good, thanks for doing the round of testing
[10:08] <seb128> duflu, and enjoy your evening :)
[10:08] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[10:08] <willcooke> My B iso is nearly downloaded
[10:08]  * willcooke curses wifi
[10:09] <willcooke> I should do one of those Lunduke style "everything is wrong" videos about wifi and how terrible it is.
[10:10] <duflu> Yeah. I have speeds working up to 700Mbps or so, and yet the latency is still too high for nice ssh typing. Still need ethernet
[10:12] <willcooke> duflu, on 5 or 2.4 ghz?
[10:13] <willcooke> 2.4 is a swamp these days
[10:13] <duflu> willcooke, 5GHz (which is implied by 700Mbps I think)
[10:14] <willcooke> oh, that's on wifi!?!?
[10:15] <willcooke> I figured gigabit ethernet
[10:15] <duflu> willcooke, no that would be 1000Mbps (exactly)
[10:16] <duflu> willcooke, time for a new router then?  That should get near 866Mbps easily
[10:19] <willcooke> duflu, Wifi issues are just because of where I move my office and the wifi AP while we had the builders in.  I'll be back on cat5(ish) in the next few months
[10:20] <duflu> Or 867Mbps
[10:20]  * duflu is still in the habit of assuming things are multiples of 66MHz
[10:21] <duflu> Or sounding like it
[10:28] <willcooke> erm.  We're missing the map selector on the installer in Bionic.  Maybe that was removed because of the change around in orders of the screens so that the keyboard settings came before the encryption settigns?
[10:29] <willcooke> didrocks, relevant to your interests?
[10:29] <willcooke> ignore, there it is
[10:29] <willcooke> as expected, moved later in the process
[10:30] <jibel> willcooke, keyboard has been moved earlier
[10:30] <willcooke> I think map has also been moved later
[10:30] <willcooke> but what evs :)
[10:30] <jibel> it's right after the partitioning
[10:32]  * duflu falls off chair
[10:37] <didrocks> pfff, the ppas build are really slow today, doesn't help testing things quicker
[11:21] <willcooke> seb128, konrad11901 jibel - FWIW - My testing of the PPA is complete, and it's at least as good as 5.46 IMO.  Same re-connection story, So LGTM.
[11:21] <willcooke> I didnt do the full test, but I did test audio and keyboard)
[11:22] <k_alam> jbicha: Can this be merged ?
[11:22] <k_alam> https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/unity-settings-daemon/lp-1747154/+merge/337121
[11:22] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[11:32] <seb128> Laney, do you know if there any easy way to get into an autopkg bionic/armhf env to try debug an issue?
[11:32] <Laney> does it need to be armhf or just lxd?
[11:33] <seb128> dunno, it's to try to debug dconf being blocked due to notify-osd/armhf failing
[11:34] <seb128> which I can't reproduce on a porter box
[11:34] <seb128> well that's artful
[11:34] <seb128> there is no bionic chroot
[11:34] <seb128> so trying to find another place/way to poke at it
[11:35] <seb128> I mean the porter only offers artful, not bionic
[11:37] <Laney> alright, well yeah I'd try running on lxd locally
[11:37] <Laney> autopkgtest-build-lxd and then autopkgtest ... --- lxd autopkgtest/ubuntu/bionic/amd64
[11:38] <seb128> Laney, thx
[11:39] <Laney> if not then maybe we need to ask for bionic chroots there
[11:40] <seb128> right
[11:40] <seb128> thx Laney
[11:40] <Laney> gl!
[11:40] <seb128> thx
[11:41] <seb128> well I guess it doesn't hurt to ask for a bionic chroot in any case so still going to that as well
[11:41] <jbicha> k_alam: uh, it looks like seb128 was already working on that merge proposal?
[11:42] <jbicha> good morning
[11:42] <seb128> k_alam, jbicha, I've be asked to review and did that, I don't plan to roll updates for unity components
[11:42] <seb128> I can do sponsoring if needed though
[11:44] <k_alam> jbicha: Yes, seb128 approved it but merge is still pending
[11:45] <k_alam> jbicha: I also asked you review this: https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/unity-control-center/uoa-panel/+merge/337618
[11:54] <jbicha> k_alam: please use the "set commit message" field in those merge proposals. It's required by bileto
[11:54] <jbicha> bileto's not required for Unity stuff any more, but if you're asking me to merge stuff, I'll probably use bileto :)
[11:59] <k_alam> jbicha: Ok. Done. :)
[12:20] <tjaalton> uh, launching snaps seem to recreate Documents etc directories under LANG=C in my $HOME
[12:26] <tjaalton> already filed, bug 1746710
[12:31] <willcooke> lunchtime ALREADY?!  What's going on todya
[12:32] <seb128> yeah, same here
[12:32] <seb128> trying to wrap enough things to be able to eat something
[12:49] <didrocks> jibel: hey! if you can review/pass that to ubiquity active members: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/minimal-install/+merge/337698 and https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/minimal-package-list/+merge/337700
[12:50] <didrocks> jibel: this is an intermediate solution, still flexibale, but not the best. Looking at when the request was made and how much time we have for this cycle with other work, knowing we'll move to something completely different when transitioned with subiquity, I think this is our best shot
[12:52] <jbicha> Laney: Seb was wondering why we haven't updated glib in bionic to the 2.55 series yet
[12:54] <Laney> Needs merging afaik
[12:55] <jbicha> Laney: ok if I do it then?
[12:56] <seb128> jbicha, do you plan to do the recent gtk update btw?
[12:57] <seb128> jbicha, just in case you do please can you include https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270 ?
[12:59] <Laney> jbicha: If the owner of the merge agrees, no objection from me. :-)
[13:00] <Laney> we should put that gtk commit into the gtk3 branch too so that it gets in the next release
[13:00] <Laney> who is brave enough to commit it? :P
[13:01] <jbicha> I'm fearless, sometimes :)
[13:03] <Laney> jbicha: & funnily enough I was just building glib
[13:05] <willcooke> now it really is lunch time, bbiab
[13:06] <jbicha> Laney: I have the bionic glib merge upload ready if I'm not interrupting you…
[13:07] <Laney> I meant 2.55.2
[13:10] <jbicha> ok, let's do that first. btw, https://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/vcswatch?package=glib2.0 doesn't like it when you have a newer version in experimental than in git HEAD
[13:11] <jbicha> one way to handle that is just to push new releases (experimental or not) to debian/master, the other is to change the "default branch" in gitlab
[13:12] <jbicha> a 3rd way is to add " -B debian/experimental" to the end of the Vcs-Git line
[13:14] <Laney> probably that one, I don't like making unstable not the development focus
[13:14] <Laney> but I've never used that syntax, where is it documented please?
[13:14] <Laney> and hmm, glib.git upstream looks a bit weird
[13:14] <Laney> like the release didn't happen
[13:15] <jbicha> yeah, at a minimum, it's missing a 2.55.2 release tag
[13:15] <Laney> there's a commit missing to bump the versions too I think
[13:16] <Laney> that's probably not going to be fun to fix
[13:16] <jbicha> I don't know of the -B syntax being documented. It works though (with the theory that you can just paste that line at the end of "git clone "
[13:17] <jbicha> suggest that mclasen just do a 2.55.3 release instead?
[13:17] <Laney> i'll let him deal with that
[13:18] <jbicha> -B is used for https://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/vcswatch?package=webkit2gtk
[13:42] <Laney> wonder what's going to happen when we get the next 2.55 now
[13:42] <Laney> this tag's commit isn't on master
[13:42] <Laney> fun :>
[13:43] <jbicha> I'm hoping it will work out ok
[13:44] <jbicha> I have to use the "git fetch -t" option for situations like this since "git fetch" won't pull tags like that by default
[13:47] <Laney> yeah because it doesn't point at the branches git fetch will fetch
[13:50] <ricotz> hey desktopers
[13:50] <ricotz> could someone cancel/retry  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.0.1-0ubuntu1/+build/14345799
[13:50] <ricotz> it seems to be stuck
[13:53] <ricotz> the corresponding armhf build deserves a retry too imho (since it built in the ppa) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.0.1-0ubuntu1/+build/14345798
[13:53] <kenvandine> wb Laney!
[13:53] <kenvandine> Laney, no crutches? :-D
[13:57] <didrocks> ricotz: done for both
[13:57] <ricotz> didrocks, thanks
[13:58] <Laney> kenvandine: :D no, just a bruised bum
[13:58]  * Laney started doing linked turns
[13:58] <Laney> falling there can be fast ;-)
[14:04] <kenvandine> Laney, awesome
[14:06] <Laney> just in time for the winter olympics
[14:06] <Laney> #goldmedal
[14:07] <oSoMoN> ricotz, I'd swear the i386 build was complete when I checked earlier this morning, has it been re-tried?
[14:07] <seb128> Laney, do you know what's the right way/place to request that porter box update? #is ? RT? other channel?
[14:08] <ricotz> oSoMoN, it built for 22 hours and was stuck
[14:08] <oSoMoN> ricotz, I was looking at the armhf failure but I'm not seeing anything obvious, so I'm +1 for a retry
[14:08] <oSoMoN> ah nevermind it's already been retried
[14:08] <oSoMoN> thanks didrocks
[14:08]  * oSoMoN reads backlog
[14:09] <Laney> seb128: I'd file an RT ticket
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, that's what I was thinking, #is isn't working, thx!
[14:50] <oSoMoN> didrocks, my default session is "Ubuntu", and when I reboot my machine and click the sessions dropdown at the login screen, the first one ("GNOME") is selected (although if I don't change anything and proceed with login, it actually logs me into the "Ubuntu" session)
[14:50] <oSoMoN> known bug?
[14:50] <seb128> oSoMoN, yes
[14:51] <oSoMoN> good
[14:51] <didrocks> indeed, it sounds like GDM has multiple lists :/
[14:51] <didrocks> if you want to have a look, that happened because it fallbacked to the default session
[14:51] <didrocks> which is "ubuntu"
[14:51] <oSoMoN> seb128, didrocks : is there a bug report already, or should I file one?
[14:51] <didrocks> but gdm doesn't match the dropdown (UI part)
[14:51] <didrocks> I didn't file one, please feel free :)
[14:51] <seb128> somebody mentioned it the other day
[14:51] <oSoMoN> ok, will do now
[14:51] <didrocks> I did before uploading
[14:51] <didrocks> not sure if this is what seb128 remembers of :)
[14:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, it sounds similar to bug #1738389 to me but I don't know if it's the same code defect
[14:52] <seb128> didrocks, no, I know you mentioned it, but I think somebody asking about it here as well
[14:52] <didrocks> as it doesn't impact the default session selection, no reason to push back on setting back Xorg as default
[14:52] <didrocks> ok
[14:52] <oSoMoN> gotta handle LO backports for xenial and trusty so I can't look into fixing it now, but I can pick it up later if it's still up for grabs
[14:52] <didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, no hurry I think, the correct session is still selected if you don't click the gear menu (and even if you click it and don't select anything)
[14:52] <didrocks> the reproducer is really easy: select a session, remove it & reboot
[14:53] <didrocks> crazy that the selected session backend and frontend aren't in sync :/
[14:53] <seb128> seems it was x_nox on monday
[14:53] <didrocks> seb128: I think bug #1738389 was the same issue. it's not valid now as I set the default to "Ubuntu" though
[14:54] <seb128> didrocks, right, might be the same code issue behind both I meant
[14:54] <didrocks> yes, just telling that you won't reproduce the exact same scenario due to my patch changing the default
[14:54] <seb128> right, good point
[14:55] <seb128> oSoMoN, anyway, your choice to open a new bug or update that existing one/repurpose it
[14:57] <oSoMoN> seb128, not the same bug, if I read it correctly, as it doesn't involve a second user and the correct session is used, it's only the list display that doesn't reflect it
[14:57] <oSoMoN> I'll file a new one
[14:57] <seb128> k
[14:57] <seb128> oSoMoN, I don't think the second user is a factor in that bug, it's just that it's a fresh state
[14:58] <didrocks> yes, no valid session selected and never clicked on the dropdown to select one is the bug IMHO
[15:10] <oSoMoN> didrocks, bug #1749481
[15:10] <didrocks> sweet! thx
[15:13] <seb128> oSoMoN, thx, bonus point if you upstream it :)
[15:14] <oSoMoN> seb128, will do in a moment, gotta file another couple of bugs in the LO snap first
[15:14] <seb128> oSoMoN, thx
[15:35] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, would you mind confirming bug #1749484 ?
[15:38] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: There is still a problem with gnome-sudoku translations:
[15:38] <GunnarHj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-sudoku/+bug/1734545/comments/4
[15:41] <seb128> GunnarHj, that sounds like a launchpad question, maybe wgrant on #ubuntu-devel is a better to ask about why the .po didn't make it to the import queue
[15:42] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll ask him.
[15:42] <oSoMoN> seb128, didrocks : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=793456
[15:42] <seb128> GunnarHj, thx
[15:42] <seb128> oSoMoN, great, thx!
[15:43] <didrocks> oSoMoN: I've linked the downstream report to the upstream one FYI. Thanks!
[15:43] <didrocks> oSoMoN: FYI, it's "also affect projects" -> enter the bugzilla url
[15:44] <seb128> GunnarHj, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/gnome-sudoku has " This source package is sharing translations with GNOME Sudoku stable series. " which I wonder if that's the issue
[15:44] <oSoMoN> didrocks, thanks, I knew that but I forgot to do it
[15:46] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, I thought about that too, but syncronization is not enabled. Do you think that removing that upstream link completely can make a difference?
[15:46] <seb128> who knows
[15:47] <GunnarHj> :)
[15:47] <seb128> if wgrant doesn't reply I can try that
[15:47] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, in a bit
[15:47] <kenvandine> can't logout right now :)
[15:48] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, what happens if you reboot?
[15:49] <kenvandine> and what is $XDG_SESSION_TYPE set to?
[15:53] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, it's fixed with a reboot
[15:54] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, let me capture the full env before and after to compare
[15:56] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, XDG_SESSION_TYPE hasn't changed, it's "x11"
[16:00] <oSoMoN> potentially relevant changes (before/after): https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gVYj5mQ2Mj/
[16:04] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, interesting
[16:04] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, so some env variables are being appended too?
[16:04] <kenvandine> replication there :)
[16:05] <oSoMoN> yes
[16:06] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, do you see a wayland socket in /run/user/`id -u`/
[16:06] <kenvandine> when in the x11 session
[16:06]  * kenvandine is wondering if things aren't being cleaned up
[16:07] <kenvandine> although that wouldn't explain the weird env variable replication
[16:07] <oSoMoN> $ ls -l /run/user/`id -u`/wayland*
[16:07] <oSoMoN> srwxrwxr-x 1 osomon osomon 0 févr. 14 16:54 /run/user/1000/wayland-0
[16:07] <oSoMoN> -rw-rw---- 1 osomon osomon 0 févr. 14 16:54 /run/user/1000/wayland-0.lock
[16:07] <oSoMoN> indeed
[16:08] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, so the helpers are seeing the socket and trying to connect to wayland
[16:08] <oSoMoN> and sure enough, removing those files "fixes" the issue
[16:09] <GunnarHj> seb128: No quick reply from wgrant. Trying without that link appears to be worth a try. I can remove the link, but I can't re-upload...
[16:09] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^ have you seen issues with the wayland socket being left around?
[16:09] <seb128> kenvandine, I didn't no
[16:09] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, you are on bionic right?
[16:09] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, I can do another upload to see how it goes
[16:10] <kenvandine> i can't logout right now, i have a cleanbuild running :)
[16:10] <GunnarHj> seb128: Great! Link gone.
[16:10] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, yes, that's on bionic
[16:11] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, the helpers should probably check for the existence of the socket and XDG_SESSION_TYPE
[16:11] <kenvandine> just to prevent this sort of issue
[16:11] <kenvandine> but that's not the actual problem
[16:11] <kenvandine> that socket shouldn't be left around
[16:11] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, when you're done with your cleanbuild, please try and reproduce, I'd like to know if it's a general problem or only my setup that's busted somehow
[16:11] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, will do
[16:12] <oSoMoN> cheers
[17:56] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, sorry, i haven't forgotten... had a tweak and building again
[17:56] <kenvandine> almost done though :)
[17:56] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, no worries
[17:57] <oSoMoN> I'll very soon be EOD, I hope to catch up with sleep tonight, please comment on the bug
[17:57] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, will do
[18:16] <oSoMoN> that's it for today, have a good evening everyone!
[18:37] <willcooke> ok, I'm off too, night all
[21:34] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i've got a build of gnome-software as a snap now
[21:34] <kenvandine> that works well with categories
[21:35] <kenvandine> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ken-vandine/gnome-software_git_amd64.snap
[21:35] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, if you'd like to play with it :)
[21:35] <kenvandine> currently only has snap and apt backends
[21:35] <kenvandine> i disabled fwupd
[21:36] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, and i've requested classic confinement for the store https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/classic-confinement-request-for-gnome-software/4015
[21:49] <robert_ancell> kenvandine \o/
[21:50] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, not in the store yet?
[21:51] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, also did you decide not to call it ubuntu-software?
[21:57] <kenvandine[m][m]> robert_ancell: the current plan is to leave it gnome-software and build it with a bunch of backends
[22:00] <robert_ancell> kenvandine the backends are different snaps?


[05:56] <dholbach> good morning
[18:14] <slytherin> can someone please give nack dbus-java?
[18:14] <slytherin> /snack/back
[18:14] <slytherin> :-(
[18:15] <slytherin> wrong channel
[18:24] <persia> slytherin: No.  This is a fine channel.  URL?
[18:25] <slytherin> persia: Is this right url - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17430345/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.dbus-java_2.5-4_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[18:25] <slytherin> persia: Wait. I guess ftbfs page is outdated.
[18:26] <persia> No, I don't want the log, just the build page.
[18:27] <slytherin> persia: Anyway, ignore that. It was previously in DEPWAIt but now it FTBFS. Let me take a look at the reason.
[18:27] <persia> OK :)