[01:20] <mapp> another quiet night every chan im in is quiet
[01:59]  * diddledan yawns
[01:59] <diddledan> is it sleepytime yet?
[02:09] <mapp> not for me
[02:09] <mapp> im contemplating going to tesco do my shopping
[02:09] <mapp> a ) its empty so easy but b_) i cant be bothered with the 20min e/w walk
[02:17]  * nigelb waves
[02:17] <nigelb> Good Morning!
[02:20] <mapp> hey
[02:20] <diddledan> http://www.netwars-project.com/
[02:20] <mapp> just got up nigelb?:P
[02:20] <diddledan> interesting cyber-security thing
[02:20] <mapp> argh
[02:20] <mapp> http://www.binarypilot.co/?id=f6b635&sub=prop
[02:21] <mapp> keep getting stuff like tat
[02:21] <mapp> useless garbage
[02:31] <nigelb> mapp: I'm in India. It's 8am here.
[02:31] <nigelb> (woke up around 6)
[02:32] <diddledan> mapp: wtf did you get that crud from? (the binary pilot link)
[03:06] <mapp> done!
[03:06] <mapp> there and back in 30mins
[03:06] <mapp> some annoying popup diddledan
[03:06] <mapp> im not recommending it;p
[05:58] <MooDoo> hello all
[06:01] <nigelb> Morning MooDoo
[06:01] <nigelb> Happy fake-Tuesday.
[06:01] <nigelb> erm
[06:01] <nigelb> fake-Monday
[06:01] <nigelb> proves the point, doesn't it? :)
[06:06] <jussi> morning all
[06:07] <jussi> is it just me or is chromium really messed up in 14.04 ?
[06:09] <nigelb> jussi: I heard popey talk about something similar with the latest chromium update.
[06:09] <jussi> nigelb: my backspace and delete keys don't work!
[06:10] <nigelb> ...
[06:11] <nigelb> that sounds fairly serious.
[06:11] <nigelb> I hope chromium isn't yet the default browser.
[06:11] <jussi> wait a sec, lets see if a restart of chromium helps...
[06:12] <Myrtti> on my Chromium on 12.04 I can do Google Hangouts just fine
[06:12] <jussi> Myrtti: yeah, but on 14.04?
[06:12] <Myrtti> but if I use the normal Chrome, whateverthehell version it is, it just prompts me back to installing the plugin
[06:12] <nigelb> My colleague, amusingly, can only do hangouts on Firefox. Doesn't work on Firefox.
[06:12] <Myrtti> over, and over, and over again
[06:13] <nigelb> Myrtti: Oh. Do you hvae the right architecture of chrome? (it happened to me with flash)
[06:13] <nigelb> 64-bit flash and 32-bit browser = no workey.
[06:13] <jussi> hrm, restart partially helped... it now only doesnt work *sometimes* ....
[06:13] <jussi> ...
[06:13] <Myrtti> jussi: sorry, I got an update last week that basically prevents my OEM laptop from upgrading to LTS
[06:13] <Myrtti> well, new LTS
[06:13] <nigelb> jussi: wtf
[06:14] <jussi> Myrtti: that sucks.
[06:14] <jussi> nigelb: yeah, weird as. everything working in chrome, so no idea whats going on
[06:14] <Myrtti> jussi: I don't really mind that much actually
[06:14] <Myrtti> OEM Ubuntu means the computer works
[06:15] <jussi> well, yeah, fair point
[06:15] <jussi> is it a dell?
[06:16] <Myrtti> yup
[06:16] <jussi> XPS13?
[06:16] <Myrtti> Dell Latitude E6430
[06:16] <Myrtti> I did request XPS13 but it wasn't enterprise enough to pass the muster of the IT dept.
[06:16] <jussi> aww.
[06:17] <Myrtti> because cheap is obviously a sign it won't last
[06:17] <Myrtti> *rolleyes*
[06:17] <jussi> heh...
[06:18] <Myrtti> it would have been so nice and light to fly with...
[06:18] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[06:18] <jussi> Myrtti: I hear you
[06:18] <jussi> Ive an E4200 - getting a bit old in the tooth now, but still nice.
[06:19] <Myrtti> nigelb: yeah, the arch matches. I heard cz<tab> had similar issues with flash plugin last week
[06:21] <jussi> flash doesnt work on my home PC either (upgraded last week) despite me reinstalling it like 15 times...
[08:04] <smittix> Mornin'
[08:08] <MooDoo> morning smittix
[08:30] <diplo> Morning all
[08:35] <dwatkins> hey folks
[08:41] <MooDoo> howdy dwatkins
[08:45] <dwatkins> today is a good day to stay indoors
[08:46] <jussi> pffft, we have blue skies and sunshine! and more than 10 degrees!
[08:49] <nigelb> ...
[08:50] <nigelb> somehow jussi celebrating "more than 10 degrees" scares me a bit.
[08:50] <jussi> nigelb: its april... :D
[08:51] <nigelb> jussi: My city is seeing 30+ every day :(
[08:51] <jussi> nigelb: Im glad Im not there - I hate it too hot
[08:52] <nigelb> Heh
[08:52] <nigelb> I'm only happy that there's not much humidity.
[09:05] <czajkowski> Myrtti: I did took following the steps a few times for it to wake up and relase it had installed and a reboot later all worked
[09:05] <czajkowski> and yes I have ct<tab> on highlight :)
[09:10] <Myrtti> well this is basically end of May weather in Finland
[09:11] <Myrtti> it's not unheard of of getting sleet or even snow on May Day
[09:11] <bashrc_> morning
[09:13] <Myrtti> czajkowski: I might try that
[09:17] <czajkowski> Myrtti: weather here has been awful most of the weekend
[09:17] <czajkowski> Friday and SAturday weren't bad
[09:17] <czajkowski> sunday and monday bleugh
[09:18]  * czajkowski will be in Oslo, Helsinki and now Stockholm in June
[09:47] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:48] <MooDoo> hello brobostigon
[09:49] <brobostigon> hello MooDoo
[09:50] <awilkins> Did we all get a visit from the Eostre Bunny?
[09:53] <brobostigon> yes, my special dairy free chocolate.
[09:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:00] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:01] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[10:01] <brobostigon> is there a davmor1 ?
[10:01] <czajkowski> one davmor2 is all we can handle
[10:01] <czajkowski> :)
[10:08] <davmor2> brobostigon: there was when I first install Suse 6.3 which is where I got the nick from, Never seen the nick since though but by then I had it registered everywhere
[10:19] <davmor2> brobostigon: in fact it was suse that got me the nick, They recommended the format of fisrt 3 letter of you first and last name and a number :)
[10:20] <davmor2> so MooDoo how was your break
[10:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: mostly good thanks :D
[10:23] <davmor2> How was everyones elses Easter break?
[10:26] <foobarry> good
[10:26] <foobarry> tiring
[10:26] <foobarry> churchy
[10:26] <foobarry> chocolately
[10:27] <brobostigon> davmor2: ah, i see. :)
[10:36] <MooDoo> not churcy for me, just chocolatey
[10:38] <jussi> MartijnVdS: ping
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> jussi:
[10:41]  * jussi waves vigorously :D
[10:41] <jussi> and PMs
[10:43] <popey> Moo.
[10:43] <jussi> hei popey!
[10:45] <Laney> Have you mooed today?
[10:47] <jussi> MOOO!
[10:47] <jussi> now I have...
[10:47] <jussi> Laney: been a long time since I had a conversation with you...
[10:48] <davmor2> Laney: Run it's a trap
[10:49] <jussi> davmor2: sssshhh!!!  :P
[11:07] <davmor2> jussi: http://goo.gl/8YIXzU
[11:07] <davmor2> jussi: I think that is the best one I've ever seen :)
[11:07] <jussi> davmor2: yeah, I saw that one
[11:07] <jussi> pretyt cool
[11:31] <foobarry> cannot login to my library to renew books :S
[11:37] <davmor2> foobarry: why?
[11:42] <foobarry> broke last week
[11:42] <foobarry> don't suppose IT systems people for libraries are the best
[11:45] <davmor2> foobarry: ring your local library and let them know they might not actually be aware at all
[11:45] <davmor2> foobarry: a lot of the work might be centralised with a 3rd party who are slacking off
[11:50] <foobarry> its a london wide libary system i think
[11:50] <foobarry> arena
[11:58] <foobarry> doritos never seem to go stale
[12:42] <dwatkins> it's all the wifi
[13:49] <dvrr> MooDoo:Hiiiiiiiii
[13:50] <MooDoo> hello
[14:09] <foobarry> quiet considerig 14.04 got released recently
[14:22] <DJones> Thats a good sign, it means people aren't commenting on having issues
[14:23] <awilkins> So far it passes the Dear Grey Haired Old Mum test
[14:23] <awilkins> Installed it for mum at the weekend.
[14:23] <awilkins> Comments so far "It looks a bit more crisp and techy"
[14:24] <awilkins> (over 12.04)
[14:24] <foobarry> my laptop touchpad is sucky :(
[14:24] <nigelb> foobarry: TMI.
[14:25] <awilkins> sucky, not sticky
[14:25] <foobarry> its jerky and scrool is intolerably slow
[14:25] <foobarry> and i don't understand the undocumented alps glidepoint stuffs
[14:26] <nigelb> awilkins: lol, dang.
[14:33] <foobarry> how long do i have before u1 stops letting me copy files?
[14:34] <popey> !u1
[14:35] <popey> bah
[14:35] <popey> blog.canonical.com/2014/04/02/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-services/
[14:35] <popey> "The current services will be unavailable from 1 June 2014; user content will remain available for download until 31 July, at which time it will be deleted."
[14:35] <foobarry> haven't made a decision yet
[14:37] <Dave2> cononical providing free os and services.Who knows microsoft shutting down tomarrow and if it happens anyone going to die.
[14:37] <Dave2> some interesting comments on that post
[14:40]  * popey hugs SyncThing
[14:42] <foobarry> trying to get my head around olc in ldap. new config style.
[14:42] <foobarry> slapd.conf gone away
[14:47] <DJones> popey: Do you know when the name of 14.10 is being announced?
[14:47] <popey> not soon enough
[14:47] <DJones> Heh
[14:48] <MartijnVdS> Unified Ungulate
[14:48] <MartijnVdS> done.
[14:54] <directhex> undulating unicorn. you heard it here first.
[14:55] <foobarry> usurping uakari
[14:55] <Laney> ululating uakari
[14:55]  * Laney lalalala
[15:12] <dwatkins> Ubuntu 14.10 Unified Userexperience
[15:12] <dwatkins> isn't that what all the cool kids are doing nowadays?
[15:13] <Laney> umbilical
[15:15] <awilkins> Ultimate Umbrellabird
[15:15] <awilkins> Ugly Uguisu
[15:15] <awilkins> Usorious Uakari
[15:16] <Laney> somebody found the same "animals that begin with U" page as me
[15:17] <diddledan> what about the usula bird? the one that disappears up it's own...
[15:19] <popey> there's a page on the wiki with speculation for every release
[15:19] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
[15:19] <diddledan> aah google tells me it's spelt "oozlum"
[15:19] <popey> one of the more active wiki pages we have !
[15:23] <davmor2> Unity8 Umbilical_cord is the obvious one :)
[15:23] <popey> FSVO "Obvious"
[15:29] <directhex> Uninvited Uromastyx
[15:29] <SuperMatt> unshakable unicorn
[15:30] <SuperMatt> unphased urchin
[15:30] <diddledan> unthinking urangutan
[15:31] <diddledan> ^^^ very similar to the diddlus danus
[15:31] <SuperMatt> it'll probably be unicorn
[15:31] <diddledan> unicorns aren't real though
[15:31] <SuperMatt> I can understand why mark hasn't posted about the new codename yet
[15:31] <SuperMatt> neither are jackalopes
[15:32] <SuperMatt> so there's precedance
[15:32] <diddledan> >.<
[15:32] <SuperMatt> understandable unicorn
[15:33] <diddledan> unimaginable unicorn?
[15:34] <SuperMatt> surely without the new name, no work can be done
[15:34] <SuperMatt> I bet someone with hovering their finger over a grep command within the repos
[15:35] <SuperMatt> sed even
[15:35] <diddledan> that's a good point, because without a name we don't have an identity or presence or guide to adhere
[15:36] <diddledan> it'll be anarchy without a name
[15:37] <SuperMatt> it's anarchy enough already!
[16:18] <bashrc> struggling to install 14.04 on a laptop.  I just get an immediate kernel panic "not syncing"
[17:02] <diddledan> bashrc: that often means it can't find the hdd
[17:02] <diddledan> or the hdd moved since installation
[18:01] <maps|wrk> evening folks
[21:33] <maps|wrk> everyone on 14.04 now?
[21:34] <ali1234> yeah for months
[21:34] <ali1234> i normally do a fresh install when it actually releases but i haven't got around to it yet
[21:40] <maps|wrk> does anyone bother running a local mirror for themselves
[21:40] <maps|wrk> guess no need ubless a lot of machines likely to be usingapt-get?
[21:40] <maps|wrk> *using apt-get
[21:42] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zls2rg6aokducef/eMeFTzT9nf
[21:42] <daftykins> just flew home on a jet :)
[21:43] <maps|wrk> :(
[21:43] <maps|wrk> cant access dropbox
[21:43] <diddledan> I'm leavin' on a jet plane, I don't know when I'll be back again.
[21:43] <maps|wrk> hmm this is incredibly slow
[21:43] <maps|wrk> wonder what its doing
[21:43] <maps|wrk> trying to mirror deb-i386 main
[21:46] <maps|wrk> changed motd to include local weather..not needed but i was bored
[21:46] <maps|wrk> :D
[21:47] <diddledan> maps|wrk: the archive is large!
[21:47] <daftykins> i would like for a local ISP to setup a mirror
[21:48] <maps|wrk> lol yea ididnt remove deb-src and it said 53gig id commented out most
[21:48] <maps|wrk> main alone for 13.04 is 8.9gig
[21:48] <maps|wrk> so on my blazing fast connection..hours :)
[21:50] <daftykins> my RAID was spitting sector repair errors again after i left, so i'm gonna have to get on replacing the funky disk
[21:50] <maps|wrk> be best to run it in a screen so i can reattach ? if i run it in the background with & how can i call it back?
[21:50] <diddledan> fg 1
[21:50] <daftykins> the apt service? surely it's daemon-able
[21:51] <maps|wrk> hm,mm
[21:51] <maps|wrk> whats the diff between doing & and then callig it back and using screen?
[21:51] <diddledan> I'm not sure you can call it back once bash is terminated
[21:52] <maps|wrk> ah
[21:53] <maps|wrk> what could i run in bg tghen call back? tried nmap and it still jeept pumping out to stdout
[21:54] <daftykins> why would you run nmap other than as-and-when? :D
[21:54] <maps|wrk> just to see if i could call it back
[21:54] <maps|wrk> copuldnt think of anything else that would keep working
[22:02] <daftykins> irssi!
[22:03] <maps|wrk> that always seems hard to use
[22:03] <maps|wrk> isnt it like BX?
[22:04] <diddledan> I can't work irssi
[22:04] <diddledan> I like sidebars
[22:04] <maps|wrk> yea i struggle
[22:05] <maps|wrk> especially with multi channels in console text isnt it hard daftykins ?
[22:05] <diddledan> yeah multiple channels is the thing I have most trouble with in irssi, too
[22:06] <daftykins> i'm a noob with it, i've got my auto join channels setup and i just dance between them with alt+#
[22:06] <daftykins> my first PM comes up as alt+0, then after that i start doing /win xx
[22:06] <daftykins> XD
[22:06] <diddledan> I've got 12 channels open across networks
[22:06] <daftykins> but it does me well, it lets me reattach between computer so i don't reconnect messily all the time
[22:07] <diddledan> there's only 10 alt-able windows
[22:07] <daftykins> yarr
[22:07] <popey> heh 12
[22:08]  * popey looks at his 116 irc windows
[22:08] <daftykins> ;)
[22:08] <popey> i should trim them
[22:08] <diddledan> ouch
[22:08] <diddledan> that's a fair few
[22:08] <diddledan> I'd never get any work done if I had that many open
[22:08] <popey> i dont view them all
[22:08] <daftykins> i don't get any work done now
[22:08] <popey> now trimming!
[22:08] <daftykins> 8D
[22:09] <diddledan> maps|wrk: du -sh . just returned the size of archive.ubuntu.com at 781GB
[22:09] <daftykins> ho-lee moley.
[22:09] <maps|wrk> lol
[22:09] <maps|wrk> how did you run that afainst a remote server
[22:09] <maps|wrk> 116 windows?! over how many monitors
[22:09] <diddledan> I didn't, I ran it on my own copy which is a mirror of archive.ubuntu.com
[22:10] <diddledan> I need to fiddle with it a tad, it's nfs mounted right now >.<
[22:11] <daftykins> diddledan: do you consider that bad?
[22:11] <diddledan> daftykins: when the mirror is serving over the same connection the nfs is mounted, yes
[22:12] <diddledan> means that the maximum throughput would be about halved
[22:12] <maps|wrk> lol nice diddledan  how long did it take to mirror that
[22:12] <maps|wrk> all im doing is mirroring deb-i386 main
[22:12] <diddledan> maps|wrk: from memory nearly 12 hours
[22:14] <maps|wrk> woah nice
[22:14] <maps|wrk> whats your net?
[22:14] <diddledan> it's a gigabit network at hetzner
[22:16] <maps|wrk> :D
[22:16] <maps|wrk> ah so not your home connectrion
[22:16] <diddledan> heh, no :-p
[22:18] <maps|wrk> still..i'm fairly certain your nets better than my 6mbit;p
[22:24] <daftykins> maps|wrk: you recently switched provider didn't you? wan't it better before?
[22:24] <daftykins> *wasn't
[22:26] <maps|wrk> well, better but still awful
[22:26] <maps|wrk> 6mbit with bethere..to 6mbit with sky and a constantly changing IP and lots of disconnections
[22:29] <maps|wrk> ive dettached my screen copying the mirror
[22:29] <maps|wrk> will check in an hour and see what its done:)
[23:01] <gebbione> does ubuntu support chmod +a ?
[23:03] <diddledan> gebbione: to do what?
[23:04] <gebbione> permission setup like sudo chmod +a "$HTTPDUSER allow delete,write,append,file_inherit,directory_inherit" app/cache app/logs
[23:05] <diddledan> I've never seen a chmod along those lines
[23:08] <diddledan> access control lists are managed via the setfacl utility if that's what you're after - it's in the acl-*.deb file
[23:09] <diddledan> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/acl
[23:10] <diddledan> there's probably a bot command to fish that url out but I don't know it so I went in manually
[23:10] <diddledan> !p acl
[23:10] <gebbione> no worries, i am following a couple of pages
[23:10] <gebbione> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissionsACLs
[23:10] <gebbione> but since i had never seen acl before and its usage i was curious to ask around
[23:11] <gebbione> also i do not seem to be able to run a command like sudo setfacl -Rn -m u:"$HTTPDUSER":rwX -m u:`whoami`:rwX app/cache app/logs
[23:11] <gebbione> it keeps saying operation not supported
[23:12] <diddledan> try splitting it
[23:12] <diddledan> put each -m in a separate command
[23:12] <diddledan> also if your username has spaces then it'll likely b0rk
[23:13] <gebbione> no i m using vagrant, no spaces
[23:13] <gebbione> but even spitting the command does not work
[23:14] <diddledan> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/en/man1/setfacl.1.html might help
[23:18] <diddledan> what's the upper-case X permission supposed to represent?
[23:19] <diddledan> execute is lower-case "x"
[23:21] <gebbione> The options -M, and -X
[23:21] <gebbione>        read an ACL from a file or from standard input. The ACL entry format is
[23:21] <gebbione>        described in Section ACL ENTRIES.
[23:21] <gebbione> i m actually not sure of why the command is run that way, it is part of an instruction set to install symfony
[23:21] <diddledan> you're not using -M OR -X. the upper-case "X" permission I'm referring to is "-m u:`whoami`:rwX"
[23:22] <maps|wrk> hmm
[23:22] <diddledan> maps|wrk: how goes?
[23:23] <gebbione> changing the case for that x makes no difference
[23:23] <maps|wrk> so anyone able to help out ..i put a script in /usr/local/bin to basically do cowsay || fortune -- for the motd - then created a symlink ln -s for it in /etc/update-motd.d/91-welcome
[23:24] <maps|wrk> but nothing new shows on login? created a script in /usr/local/bin called weather and made a link same way ln -s 98-weather and that shows on login
[23:24] <diddledan> maps|wrk: wrong output channel?
[23:24] <maps|wrk> really confused, read the manpage and it says scripts get output in order
[23:24] <maps|wrk> not sure what you mean
[23:25] <diddledan> STDERR vs STDOUT
[23:25] <maps|wrk> all i did was call like fortune || cowsay -n
[23:25] <maps|wrk> should go to stdout ? bash ./usr/local/bin/welcome and it shows either on stdout
[23:26] <maps|wrk> i was looking at, https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/741573-put-a-talking-cow-in-your-linux-message-of-the-day
[23:26] <maps|wrk> can you see if it works for you?
[23:27] <diddledan> did you use double || or single | ?
[23:28] <diddledan> remember there's a difference - you want to pipe the output of the fortune command into the cowsay command
[23:28] <maps|wrk> sorry meant |
[23:29] <maps|wrk> but it didnt work for me when logging in running the script manually worked tho
[23:32] <maps|wrk> can you try on yours? if it works for you ..gotta be something else on my piece of junk
[23:38] <daftykins> so what's trusty gone and done with Xorg.0.log in a live session? we booted it up on a friends laptop today whilst i was still in England
[23:38] <diddledan> maps|wrk: it works for me
[23:39] <maps|wrk> gah
[23:39] <maps|wrk> what did you do exactly?
[23:39] <diddledan> maps|wrk: I ensured to use full pathnames to the cowsay and fortune binaries (/usr/games/<wheeee>) and made sure that the file in /usr/local/bin was executable and had a #! line
[23:40] <maps|wrk> #!/bin/bash ?
[23:40] <maps|wrk> hmm
[23:40] <diddledan> yup
[23:40] <diddledan> or at a ping /bin/dash
[23:40] <diddledan> pinch**
[23:41] <diddledan> it took a couple logins to take
[23:41] <maps|wrk> hmm
[23:43] <maps|wrk> what did you call the file? and the link -s to what
[23:44] <diddledan> called it /usr/local/bin/cow
[23:44] <diddledan> and linked to /etc/update-motd.d/91-cow
[23:45] <maps|wrk> i messed with that file
[23:45] <maps|wrk> hmm
[23:45] <maps|wrk> failed to exec /etc/update-motd.d/10-stats: E
[23:47] <maps|wrk> now it seems to be working
[23:47] <maps|wrk> odd
[23:50] <maps|wrk> do we have to use exec or can you just call them diddledan ?
[23:50] <diddledan> I didn't use exec
[23:50] <maps|wrk> thanks


[01:08] <jcastro_> hey rick_h_
[01:08] <rick_h_> jcastro_: howdy
[01:09] <jcastro_> http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/18244/is-it-possible-to-use-a-hot-water-recirculation-pump-with-a-pex-home-run-system
[01:09] <jcastro_> it has begun
[01:10] <jcastro_> rick_h_: We closed today
[01:10] <rick_h_> jcastro_: awesome! congrats on making it through the paperwork
[01:10] <jcastro_> 5 hours
[01:10] <jcastro_> I wanted to kill everything and everyone
[01:10] <rick_h_> hah
[01:11] <rick_h_> nice, and jealous of your pex
[01:11] <rick_h_> so much nicer to work with than ole copper
[01:13] <brousch> rick_h_: The pupil is teaching the master on IRC?
[01:13] <rick_h_> brousch: not really, not sure what the originally problem was but he's not a JS dev from the looks of things
[01:16] <jrwren> jcastro_: congrats!
[01:17] <jcastro_> <3
[01:17] <jcastro_> jrwren, we can have people over soon
[01:17] <jcastro_> probably 3 weeks or so
[01:17] <jcastro_> unless you like sitting on an empty floor, heh
[01:23] <snap-l> I'll bring my Yoga Mat.
[01:23] <rick_h_> yea, I've got these great floor mat puzzle parts that have letters and numbers you can take out and teach with
[01:24] <rick_h_> jcastro_: "what letter is this?"
 Shoot, I just tend to use a kitchen chair
[01:34] <jrwren> he left
[01:34] <rick_h_> doh
[01:35] <rick_h_> connection hung for a second and missed that
[11:17] <rick_h_> morning ugh
[12:41] <jrwren> morn
[12:48] <brousch> quark
[13:12] <rick_h_> so I'm not supposed to order this right? http://oreedesign.com/ it would just be furthering the fetish?
[13:13] <brousch> If you have twice as many keyboards as you actually need, then you have a problem
[13:13] <rick_h_> hmmm, so what's 'need'?
[13:13] <brousch> 1 for each computer
[13:14] <rick_h_> so if I count everything with a usb port I think I'm safe...
[13:15] <brousch> Your laptop has one built-in
[13:15] <rick_h_> ah come on, you can't count built in keyboards in the count
[13:15] <brousch> Maybe a bluetooht keyboard for your tablet and phone
[13:25] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:26] <snap-l> rick_h_: But what kind of switches does it have?
[13:27] <shakes808> Good morning all.
[13:28] <shakes808> I want to make a batch script to close all currently opened windows. I had found a taskkill /im program.exe but I would have to put in all the programs that I want to check for. Is there a way to check for opened windows and close them in few lines?
[13:31] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/u/0/106436370949746015255/posts/2Y4GjBCjxbR snap-l
[13:58] <snap-l> rick_h_: firestarter. :)
[13:59] <rick_h_> snap-l: bwuhahahahaha
[14:26] <_stink_> brousch: hahaha
[14:26] <rick_h_> Chrome: http://ubuntuone.com/4m2YYq3itkCaorK2DP4g2F
[14:26] <rick_h_> Firefox: http://ubuntuone.com/1QlZSJOxWWCiHBDJrETdHu
[14:26] <rick_h_> IE: http://ubuntuone.com/3ZEJ2yoTBapMPk01E6C3Wo
[14:26] <rick_h_> JS fun for the web devs
[14:26] <rick_h_> making a point to work folks and figured I'd share
[14:29] <rick_h_> lmao http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
[14:43] <snap-l> I hope Apple and Google make peace soon.
[14:50] <jcastro_> hah
[14:52] <brousch> ahahahahhaah
[16:39] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/lists/according-to-rolling-stone-readers-no-good-metal-albums-came-out-in-the-last-20-years
[16:58] <jcastro_> smoser, it got cold, I wanted ice cream today
[16:59] <smoser> :)
[16:59] <smoser> you have to turn the heat on in your new house?
[16:59] <jcastro_> heh
[16:59] <jcastro_> I'm in plymouth, no internet there yet
[17:00] <jcastro_> snap-l, so basically the article is common sense, we all know that already. :)
[17:00] <rick_h_> jcastro_: heading out AA way to hit up the woodworking group tonight
[17:00] <rick_h_> want to see some real tools, there you go :)
[17:00] <jcastro_> time?
[17:00] <rick_h_> 6:30 I think, Ypsi way
[17:01] <jcastro_> jill has the car until like 9 tonight, but I think I'm on your way?
[17:01] <rick_h_> jcastro_: sorry, 7pm
[17:01] <rick_h_> jcastro_: probably can be, pm me an address if you're interested
[17:01] <jcastro_> for sure
[17:01] <rick_h_> there's like 5 ways for me to get there from here
[17:01] <jcastro_> I have a bunch of questions to ask you
[17:08] <snap-l> jcastro_: Just goes to show Rolling Stone is for people who hate music.
[17:10] <jcastro_> heh
[17:11] <jcastro_> 20 years is pushing it
[17:11] <jcastro_> 10, not so much
[17:11] <jrwren> i would say no good american metal albums came out.
[17:11] <jrwren> lordi's arockalypse was awesome.
[17:12] <jrwren> I enjoy Soata Arctica's entire discography
[17:12] <jrwren> there is some really great metal out there.
[17:12] <jrwren> sorry its not rolling stone shit mainstream shit.
[17:22] <snap-l> Problem is it's quite fragmented
[17:22] <snap-l> there's a ton of awesome music out there that some folks really aren't into
[17:22] <snap-l> there's no shared experience metal albums
[17:23] <snap-l> So a list like that is going to be heavily skewed to the older stuff, because folks had a common experience with those albums
[17:25] <snap-l> I can name a ton of great albums that should be on that list, but not everyone has had the same experience with those albums
[17:25] <snap-l> Sepultura's Arise
[17:25] <snap-l> Lamb of God's Sacrament
[17:50] <jrwren> snap-l: i probably don't like any of hte albums on that list :)
[17:52] <snap-l> jrwren: Well, I like Lordi, but not sure I'd put it in the classic status yet. ;)
[17:53] <snap-l> Sepultura's Arise or Beneath the Remains would get a nod
[17:53] <snap-l> Death: Symbolic
[17:53] <snap-l> Or even The Sound of Perseverance
[17:54] <snap-l> Obituary's Cause of Death
[17:54] <snap-l> Megadeth's Rust in Peace or Peace Sells would be in that list
[17:56] <snap-l> Newer stuff, I think Chimaira's "Chimaira" album is classic
[17:56] <snap-l> Mastodon's Crack the Skye is amazing
[17:57] <snap-l> Dream Theater's Images and Words would also rank
[17:57] <snap-l> Anthrax's Among the Living is seminal
[17:58] <snap-l> I think the problem is separating the ones that could be considered classics with the ones that already are.
[17:58] <snap-l> Oh, yeah, Testament's The Gathering is amazing.
[17:59] <jrwren> no cradle of philth?
[18:00] <snap-l> I never got into them
[18:00] <snap-l> Was too campy for me
[18:00] <snap-l> also never got into much GWAR, but totally respect the act.
[18:02] <jrwren> same.
[18:02] <snap-l> Oh, Decapitated's Nihility and The Faceless Planetary Duality
[18:03] <snap-l> So, I don't think I'm too far off base. ;)
[18:03] <snap-l> And Metallica's Master of Puppets should be on that list, no question
[18:04] <snap-l> as should Guns and Roses Appetite... That album is a classic
[18:04] <snap-l> not sure Metallica's other albums should be up there excluding other artists.
[18:05] <snap-l> ... and justice is a great album, but puppets is far better.
[18:05] <snap-l> and I can't speak intelligently about Black Sabbath's albums, as I haven't picked any up (yes, I only have a greatest hits, and that's enough for me)
[18:07] <jrwren> Black Sabbath's Black Sabbath is the only one in the list that i like :)
[18:07] <jrwren> but its not ZOMG awesome, IMO so I wouldn't have it on the list.
[18:08] <jrwren> i suppose this is how awards go... its choice by commitee.
[18:08] <jrwren> distilled down to least common denominator
[18:08] <snap-l> Yeah, but I can see why it's there. There's plenty of folks who hold Black Sabbath in higher regard than I do
[18:08] <snap-l> I'm surprised Led Zeppelin isn't on that list
[18:09] <snap-l> maybe they're no longer considered heavy metal.
[18:09] <snap-l> I can totally understand why Rush isn't on that list. Rolling Stone hates Rush.
[19:07] <rick_h_> lmao http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/post/31929646495/no-ios6maps-i-dont-have-to-take-a-ferry-to
[20:24] <snap-l> What do folks use for money management.   Nobody bitches about it.
[20:44] <rick_h_> every time I try to use an app and pull down my data I spend all my time trying to fix, debug, and tag crap
[20:44] <rick_h_> screw it
[20:44] <snap-l> Yeah, that's been a big bugaboo for me with Moneydance
[20:44] <brousch> Balancing check books is for old people
[20:45] <snap-l> Every time I export the QIF into something like GNUCash, it's a complete mess
[21:16] <jcastro_> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-a560QseT0Zo/UFt3GWTr6OI/AAAAAAAAHk0/2CnFWoReRwI/s1493/NASA-Apple.png
[21:16] <jcastro_> AWESOME.
[21:43] <brousch> PyCon ticket sales are open


[00:37] <halvors> Is the linux kernel doing any reverse path filtering for Ipv6?
[00:37] <halvors> I have an issue where a TCP stream routed out one interface on the router but comming in another interface is dropped...
[01:15] <AndyWojo> does 16.04 cloud image not have cloud-init?
[04:56] <zosky> hi yall. my ubuntu server is hanging during boot, the last line i see is 'starting nfs-kernel-server'... but if i drop to a shell, i can start it manually without error. so is it the next init script after thats hanging ? how can i tell
[05:29] <zosky> i looked at the files in /etc/rc3.d/ ... the one after S20nfs-kernel-server is S20smartmontools... disabling that (from /etc/default/smartmontools) and it boots... starting it manually (sudo service smartmontools start)... no errors. why does it hang the system during boot ?
[08:39] <shekhar> hi
[08:40] <shekhar> hello guys can i get some regarding the apache2 server
[08:40] <shekhar> here
[08:40] <shekhar> hey anyone here
[08:41] <sarnold> shekhar: irc works best if you ask specific questions
[08:43] <shekhar>  i followed instruction https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-apache-virtual-hosts-on-ubuntu-14-04-lts everything is fine but it is showing "the site cant be reached " when i type the url in addr bar
[08:44] <shekhar> where can i find the error log specific to the above problem
[08:44] <shekhar> sarnold:  ^^ could you please look into the above issue
[08:45] <sarnold> shekhar: probably /var/log/apache/
[08:46] <sarnold> shekhar: is "the site can't be reached" coming from your browser? or is a server-generated error?
[08:46] <shekhar> from my browser  sarnold
[08:48] <sarnold> shekhar: then the request is probably not getting to your server at all -- use 'host' to see if your server name resolves to the correct ip address
[08:48] <sarnold> shekhar: if the IP address is good, then use telnet or nc to connect to that IP address, port 80, and see if there's a webserver listening on the port
[08:49] <shekhar> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/asbnuCCf/
[12:56] <ShekharReddy>  i removed apache2 using sudo apt-get purge apache2* and reinstalled. Now i get a different default pages on localhost and IP addr
[12:56] <ShekharReddy> https://snag.gy/ZpHTjn.jpg  it is different from  https://snag.gy/PEJxef.jpg  https://snag.gy/0fx2GT.jpg
[12:56] <ShekharReddy> any help is appreciated
[13:45] <ShekharReddy>  i removed apache2 using sudo apt-get purge apache2* and reinstalled. Now i get a different default pages on localhost and IP addr
[13:46] <ShekharReddy> https://snag.gy/ZpHTjn.jpg  it is different from  https://snag.gy/PEJxef.jpg  https://snag.gy/0fx2GT.jpg
[13:46] <ShekharReddy> any help is appreciated
[15:50] <Bae> do ubuntu-server installations have spyware software ?
[15:51] <AndyWojo> Bae: like what?
[15:51] <Bae> like amazon?
[15:51] <AndyWojo> uh no....
[15:53] <Bae> some kid was spewing such nonsense earlier
[15:53] <Bae> that ubuntu is spyware and should not be messed with
[15:53] <Bae> idk if the minimal installation comes with such things by default
[15:54] <teward> Bae: I think Amazon used to be something included in Unity, but I don't think that's included anymore?
[15:55] <teward> Bae: Server never had the Amazon stuff - that was part of the shopping search scope on Unity I believe
[15:55] <Bae> ooooh. so the desktop one had it ?
[15:57] <teward> Bae: 16.04 doesn't have that last I checked, but that was a Unity thing, not Server or "Ubuntu Standard Feature"
[15:57] <teward> and only applied to the Unity search barl
[15:57] <teward> I have a script I Used to yank that stuff out but eh
[15:58] <Bae> teward, i'm going to be using ubuntu server 15.10 though. is it there? if it is, i want to remove all spyware out there. can u remember what spywares are in there so i can take the steps to remove em?
[15:58] <teward> Bae: so you don't listen to what I said
[15:58] <teward> [2016-05-21 11:55:09] <teward> Bae: Server never had the Amazon stuff - that was part of the shopping search scope on Unity I believe
[15:58] <teward> Unity != "Ubuntu" overall
[15:59] <Bae> yeah i read that. i was talking about other spywares that may exist on the server
[15:59] <Bae> not just unity or what not
[15:59] <teward> wha...
[15:59] <teward> ***why*** would oyu assume Ubuntu comes with spyware
[15:59] <Bae> ok so there is no spyware. i understand now lol
[16:00] <teward> **why** would you make the equivalency that just because Unity Desktop had an Amazon Shopping scope, *everything* in Ubuntu comes with some spyware
[16:00] <AndyWojo> It's just ubuntu haters saying this stuff
[16:01] <Bae> i did not say ubuntu *must* come with spyware. i asked if there was. and i said if there may be some i would like to remove them. and that if you remember any, do tell me. no accusation was made
[16:01] <Bae> and i dont even hate ubuntu i am going to use it in a production environment anyway
[16:01] <Bae> and the reason why i asked such things was because some kid was talking about it eaerlier in a different channel
[16:01] <teward> Bae: the context after I said that Server never used the Amazon stuff, and the 'spyware' reference was to Amazon and searches in the Dash being sent automatically, it came across as such an accusation
[16:01] <teward> also, I haveni't had coffee
[16:01] <teward> so i'm not 100% 'awake' yet ;)
[16:02] <teward> (take my attitude with a grain of salt, i'm not normally this way)
[16:02] <Bae> ok no worries :}
[17:07] <ashd> .
[17:13] <Basketball> hello
[17:13] <Basketball> i would like to make a printer server any guides
[17:16] <ashd> Basketball: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/cups.html
[17:31] <Datz> Hi, I'm having a problem getting phpmyadmin to work on 16.04. started out complaining that mbstring was missing, after I installed that, I started getting 500 error. I can't find anything in the apache2 logs. What should my next step be?
[19:59] <baller> hello
[19:59] <baller> how can i setup a google cloud print server
[20:00] <RoyK> baller: https://support.google.com/a/answer/2906017?hl=en perhaps_
[20:01] <RoyK> ?
[20:01] <baller> i tried that
[20:01] <baller> is there a better os to use for thisz?
[20:01] <RoyK> google cloud printing sounds like a really good idea if you want google to index everything you're printing
[20:02] <baller> i have a chromebook
[20:02] <baller> and idc i am a student and don't print anything classified
[20:03] <RoyK> your personal letters should be classified ;)
[20:07] <baller> got any thing else?
[20:09] <OerHeks> obvious, you don't need anything else.
[20:11] <baller> OerHeks: that doesnt work
[20:11] <baller> will this work? https://www.niftiestsoftware.com/cups-cloud-print/
[20:11] <baller> or is that only for normal ubuntu
[20:14] <OerHeks> baller, try it if you can find a newer package than 12.04 on that site.
[20:15] <baller> OerHeks: for what i want to do would you recomend normal or ubuntu server
[20:15] <OerHeks> oh that ppa gives xenial too.. but why not the google tool, as suggested?
[20:17] <baller> OerHeks:  A) I don't remember how to install it B) i tried it a couple of months ago and it didnt work
[20:19] <baller> OerHeks: the link i found is the opposite of what i want to do
[20:19] <baller> OerHeks: how do i install the given on ubuntu server
[20:23] <OerHeks> maybe you are better off with a regular desktop, as you need to build stuff from git
[20:24] <baller> OerHeks: ok and once i install ubuntu what are the steps of getting this set up
[20:24] <OerHeks> i have no cloudprinter anyway.
[20:24] <baller> but how do i do it?
[20:24] <OerHeks> oh that answer you find in the wiki
[20:26] <baller> thanks
[20:26] <baller> gtg
[20:52] <arooni> anyone know how to make fish shell work with syntax highlighting for less ?  i tried setting the LESS and LESSOPEN env variables and installing the syntax highlighting package... still not working :\
[21:10] <Datz> Ok, looks like two dependencies: php-mbstring as well as php-gettext are missing from phpmyadmin package. Looks like it's already in the system too.. so just fyi I suppose.
[21:50] <RoyK> Datz: who really uses phpmyadmin?


[03:19] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: you around?
[03:19] <LaserJock> yes
[03:20] <Burgundavia> can you give a final lookover the bug day story?
[03:27] <LaserJock> just a sec
[03:28] <LaserJock> can we fix the ubuntu.com links or does a sysadmin have to do that?
[03:30] <Burgundavia> mdke_: can do it
[03:34] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: Hug Day is up, just had a few minor edits
[03:36] <Burgundavia> ok, thanks
[03:36] <Burgundavia> I can you reply to the mailng list post?
[03:37] <LaserJock> done
[03:38] <Burgundavia> rocking
[04:09] <Daviey> Hey, any fridge admins about?
[08:33] <LaserJock> Daviey: what do you need?
[08:33] <Daviey> hey.
[08:33] <Daviey> https is asking for authentication
[08:33] <Daviey> user/password
[08:33] <Daviey> but http is fine
[08:34] <Daviey> obv. https://fridge.ubuntu.com/
[08:35] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[08:37] <LaserJock> Daviey: you might want to notify #canonical-sysadmin
[08:38] <Daviey> will do sir
[08:40] <Daviey> no replay;
[08:41] <Daviey> bah.. i'll make a bug report
[08:41] <LaserJock> you could email the fridge-devel list
[08:41] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what you'd file the bug against
[08:42] <Daviey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/fridge/+filebug ?
[08:42] <Daviey> :D
[08:49] <LaserJock> oh, I didn't know we had a fridge product in LP


[08:14]  * abogani waves
[08:17] <abogani> Are there anyone interested to review and eventually upload -lowlatency and -realtime kernels?
[08:19] <abogani> Sorry wrong channel! :-)
[13:24] <scott-work> daily image failed to build last night
[13:24] <scott-work> cd image was looking for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.maverick/
[13:24] <scott-work> which doesn't exist and i don't think it ever did
[13:25] <scott-work> i'll wait a day and see if the problem persists or if this affects other distributions and it gets attention by others
[14:19] <jussi> scott-work: have you been running listadmin recently?  seems as though theres been a lot of spam for me to deal with...
[14:39] <scott-work> jussi: i think the last time i ran it was late last week
[14:40] <scott-work> but yeah, i leave that terminal up on my computer to help remind me and i tend to do it several times a week
[17:01] <scott-work> jussi:  have you been running listadmin as well?   that would probably explain why sometimes i get metric tonnes of spam and others not so much ;)
[17:32] <scott-work> TheMuso: would you be available in fifteen minutes to answer a few questions about me creating a few SRU's?
[17:32] <scott-work> i have the wiki documentation but parts are still unclear to me


[01:11] <Sam_> Hi
[01:12] <Sam_> I am trying to build the Snappy Ubuntu Core amd64 image, does any of you have experience to this ?
[08:12] <fgimenez> good morning
[09:48] <longsleep> ogra_: Hey, can you point me to some infos how you folks build the raspi2_armhf system-image channel? Is that created by the system-image or is there a cdimage somewhere for rpi2?
[11:15] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gunpowder Day, and happy Men Make Dinner Day (totally unrelated)! 😃
[11:17] <woodrowshen> hi all, i just quickly ask a problem, snapcraft will happen errors when the snapcraft.yaml only set the field of seccomp for security policy.
[11:19] <woodrowshen> is it a abnormal rule i used or limitation ?
[11:48] <Chipaca> hah! http://dave.cheney.net/2015/11/05/lets-talk-about-logging
[11:49]  * Chipaca points out snappy's logger.Logger interface has exactly two methods :-)
[11:49] <mvo_> Chipaca: I saw that too and I much agree, want debug in standard logger and be happy
[11:49] <Chipaca> one for things the user should see, one for debugging
[11:49] <Chipaca> even documented as such :-)
[11:49] <mvo_> yep
[11:49] <Chipaca> so we went with Notice instead of Info, because we're awkward with names or something :-)
[11:50] <Chipaca> anyway. need to take a break from sending hard emails.
[11:50] <Chipaca> willpower running low :-)
[12:05] <Chipaca> stgraber: ping
[12:06] <Chipaca> stgraber: is there an lxd image manifest anywhere? (is that a thing?)
[12:19] <mvo_> stgraber: and how is it (lxd image) build currently? is the script for that available somewhere
[12:21] <Chipaca> I got to https://images.linuxcontainers.org:8443/images/ubuntu/wily/amd64/default/20151105_03:49/
[12:21] <Chipaca> but no manifest nor nothing
[13:42] <dholbach> Day 3 of UOS starting in about 20 minutes: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/2015-11-05/
[13:43] <clobrano> \0/
[13:46] <ogra_> no way !
[13:46] <ogra_> and tons of snappy topics today too !
[13:47] <dholbach> yeppers :)
[13:50] <stgraber> mvo_, Chipaca: the images on images.linuxcontainers.org are auto-generated images from the lxc-* template scripts we have in LXC, those are generated daily on https://jenkins.linuxcontainers.org using the scipts at github.com/lxc/lxc-ci, no manifest content is published (we could add that though)
[13:51] <stgraber> mvo_, Chipaca: the recommended Ubuntu LXD images are those you get by doing "lxd-images import ubuntu --alias ubuntu" or "lxd-images import ubuntu wily --alias ubuntu-dev", ...
[13:51] <stgraber> those are cloud images and their manifest is published at https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com
[13:52] <stgraber> LXD uses the root.tar.xz images combined with the lxd.tar.xz metadata tarball
[13:52] <Chipaca> stgraber: ah, then i think it's the latter i need for this
[13:53] <stgraber> the lxd-images command will go away in 16.04 in favor of simplestream support directly in LXD, at which point you'll get things like "lxc launch ubuntu:lts my-container" and that will just work straight after installation, the image will be cached for you and kept up to date behind the scene
[14:55] <ali1234> so what exactly does a snapcraft plugin do?
[14:58] <ogra_> ali1234, everything to build a snap with a specific build tool ...
[14:59] <ogra_> i.e. we have a cmake plugin that allows you to define the github tree for some cmake using source and then call snapcraft build to generate a snap for you
[15:00] <tedg> elopio: Can we ask coveralls to only fail if the coverage goes down by like a half percent or something? There seems to be a lot of noise there.
[15:01] <ali1234> i'm looking at my github right now and actually there is quite a few things on here that could be packaged with snappy i suspect
[15:01] <ali1234> and also a few that just don't make any sense at all
[15:02] <elopio> tedg: I will check. But I like the noise, it will make you add an autotools test when you get really tired of it.
[15:05] <tedg> elopio: Sure, but I have an MR that gets an "x" because coveralls thinks it decreased by 0.03%
[15:05] <elopio> tedg: yes, it's possible, but I'm not an owner of the repo.
[15:05] <elopio> there's a notifications tab.
[15:05] <tedg> Hmm, okay. I'll look.
[15:06] <elopio> oh wait, I think it's possible, but the screenshot doesn't show the full controls.
[15:06] <longsleep> ogra_: quick question, when building the raspi2 image with u-d-f how do you make it select the raspi2_armhf device channel, using the --device parameter?
[15:06] <ogra_> longsleep, right
[15:07] <longsleep> ogra_: ok, i was wondering if i should care that this option is listed as deprectated
[15:08] <ogra_> longsleep, we need to drop this warning i guess ... even though sergiusens will cry :)
[15:09] <longsleep> ogra_: ok cool, i finally had time to try out my own system image server and hat to use this parameter to make it use the odroidc channel
[15:27] <longsleep> Another question, when you build ubuntu-core preinstalled images, does the stable line also build with ppa:snappy-dev/image ? Docs in the ppa say its only used in edge.
[15:28] <ogra_> after 15.04 release we started using the PPA there too for fixes
[15:28] <ogra_> (the SRU turnaround time is sometimes to slow so the PPA is used as staging area for this)
[15:29] <longsleep> ogra_: ok, so the ppa is required currently to build 15.04 snappy images - correct?
[15:29] <ogra_> right
[15:29] <longsleep> ogra_: ok, thanks for confirming
[15:29] <ogra_> but why would you do that at all
[15:29] <ogra_> just make your s-i server import the one from the ubuntu s-i server
[15:30] <ogra_> and only provide your own device tarball
[15:30] <longsleep> ogra_: yeah i have that now, but now i need to change some things in the ubuntu-core rootfs
[15:30] <longsleep> ogra_: can i do this with the system-image server?
[15:30] <ogra_> eeek !
[15:31] <ogra_> only if you set up your own build env
[15:31] <longsleep> ogra_: i am trying to avoid it still - experimenting with it
[15:31] <ogra_> which is rather very complex
[15:31] <longsleep> ogra_: i got that as well, i mean i can build the rootfs with cdimage and all
[15:31] <ogra_> yeah, but you really shouldnt
[15:31] <longsleep> ogra_: but it tages ages and that cdimage scripting has soooo many features
[15:32] <ogra_> especially in the light that system-image is going away soon
[15:32] <ogra_> and you will have an OS snap that contains the rootfs
[15:32] <longsleep> ogra_: yeah - but still, i need to be able to modify the rootfs - add own key ring for example
[15:33] <longsleep> ogra_: i have not completely understood all aspects of the system-image server scripts - maybe that one can incorporate some overlay tarball on top of the pulled upstream rootfs
[15:34] <ogra_> not sure thats supported in snappy, the overlay thing is for the vendor tarball on phones
[15:34] <ogra_> in snappy you would have an additional snap in the store that your oem snap pulls in
[15:34] <longsleep> ogra_: ok - but how can that overwrite stuff which is part of the rootfs?
[15:35] <ogra_> it cant on snappy
[15:35] <ogra_> and on the phone it doesnt do that either, it installs to rw space and gets linked/bind mounted
[15:36] <longsleep> ogra_: well that would be fine with me too
[15:36] <ogra_> (or the apps simply get changed to read fro the overlay location)
[15:36] <ogra_> it isnt a concept to use in snappy
[15:36] <ogra_> it wont work
[15:36] <longsleep> understood, thats why i currently have to modify the rootfs / build my own rootfs
[15:36] <ogra_> what do you change ?
[15:38] <longsleep> update without internet connection from own url for example, replace openssl with libressl, change client.ini to use own system image server
[15:38] <longsleep> i am pretty sure there is more to come
[15:39] <longsleep> btw, the client.ini might actually be a bug, or might not be used at all by snappy tool - to sure but when installed from another system image server, only default.ini has the custom server and snappy update fetches stuff from system-image.ubuntu.com (configured in client.ini)
[15:39] <longsleep> let me know if you think it is a bug and want me to add it
[15:39] <ogra_> it might be a bug, but as i saidm system-image is completely going away soon
[15:40] <ogra_> for snappy that is
[15:40] <ogra_> your rootfs will be a snap from the store with a readonly img inside
[15:40] <longsleep> yeah - we will change whatever needs to change then - no problem
[15:40] <longsleep> ogra_: i will be one of the first to test if you have something i can test
[15:41] <ogra_> :)
[15:41] <ogra_> it will happen for 16.04
[15:41] <longsleep> yeah i cannot wait until then
[15:42] <longsleep> but, wouldnt there still be some bootstrapping system image which then mounds the readonly image?
[15:42] <longsleep> ogra_: or do you want to put all this into the ramdisk?
[15:43] <ogra_> i would love to actually use the initrd *as* the readonly rootfs (like android does) ... but i fear that wont happen (too much pr-mount stuff that we need to do)
[15:43] <ogra_> i was pondering to bring that setup up on the mailing list though
[15:44] <ogra_> s/pr/pre/
[15:44] <longsleep> yeah probably a good idea, it would be nice to have it all inside initrd to avoid having some preloader gear on disk
[15:45] <longsleep> ogra_: if there is something outside the ramdisk and something outside that rootfs from a snap then that something will need to be changed eventually by some and the situation is not so much different from today
[15:48] <longsleep> ogra_: i read on the ml, that you work on building the device tarball outside of cdimage - while that would be awesome i would also be interested to create a much simpler rootfs build script - do you see any problems with a simple debootstrap approach, assuming all the hooks for ubuntu-core are run?
[15:49] <ogra_> longsleep, no, i'm building it inside of cdimage
[15:50] <longsleep> ogra_: oh - then i misread your mail sorry
[15:50] <ogra_> longsleep, i'm just moving it to a later point in the build and try to get rid of all tools inside the rootfs that are related to it
[15:50] <ogra_> so that i.e. something like initramfs-tools and all its deps are not in the readonly rootfs anymore
[15:51] <longsleep> ogra_: i see - that would be nice yes
[15:51] <longsleep> ogra_: so your goal is to reduce the rootfs from build dependencies for the device part - understood
[15:51] <ogra_> i'm not yet sure how we'll create it in a "all snaps" world
[15:52] <longsleep> thats pretty similar of what i want to have, i mean i have many debootstrap minbase scripts for various targets producing a minimal rootfs - i would like to create the snappy rootfs the same way if possible
[15:53] <longsleep> and for my case, i never need that script to produce a device tarball as this comes in extra from another source
[15:54] <ogra_> right
[15:55] <longsleep> i mean i totally get why you folks create the images like you currently do, existing infrastructure and all - but for an outside the cdimage approach is really complicated
[15:56] <longsleep> especially if you only want to build for a single target and version
[15:58] <elopio> plars: ev: things are happening, finally: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112950/
[15:59] <ogra_> well, preferably you shouldnt modify the OS snap/readonly rootfs
[16:00] <plars> elopio: indeed, we are back online :)
[16:00] <ogra_> and preferably we'd prouce an OS snap that suits you to be able to put a framework snap on top to provide your differences
[16:01] <elopio> plars: I will now replace the deb + unpack with installing it from the ppa, as we talked long ago. I'm sorry this is still taking so much time.
[16:01] <plars> elopio: no problem, hard to iterate on it when things were down, plus there was that bug
[16:02] <longsleep> ogra_: yeah - i am happy to provide feedback as things evolve - for now i am on the page to build that system no matter what and beeing as snappy-ish as possible without loosing possible customizations
[16:02] <longsleep> ogra_: btw, cloud-init - we talked about this a long time ago - i want to have it gone :)
[16:03] <ogra_> longsleep, me too, but i'm not sure it will actually happen
[16:03] <longsleep> ogra_: same goes for systemd timesyncd as it is insecure
[16:03] <ogra_> we might keep it and have it comppletely disabled or so
[16:04] <longsleep> ogra_: and all that smartcard stuff - i am not even sure why that is there
[16:05] <longsleep> ogra_: well i am listening if anyone wants to explain why snappy needs to run pkcsslotd by default
[16:05] <elopio> plars: can you please add the tools-proposed ppa on the agent, in case you haven't already? https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/tools-proposed
[16:06] <ogra_> longsleep, cant tell you ... i was asked to seed it, thats all i know
[16:06] <plars> elopio: will do, but it will only get updated when we deploy or manually update it
[16:06] <plars> elopio: that's ok?
[16:07] <elopio> plars: can't you tell the agent to autoupdate? That's the idea, to make it easy to push a new version of the tests to the agents.
[16:07] <longsleep> ogra_: well ok - but someone has to know :)
[16:08] <plars> elopio: that's pretty risky I think... if it's infrastructure, we should be deploying a known-good, tested version
[16:08] <plars> elopio: if it's for a test, it should get pushed in temporarily via the test, and abandoned at the end of the test
[16:09] <plars> elopio: otherwise it could leave the test environment in an unstable condition for future tests
[16:09] <plars> elopio: this if for things like ubuntu-device-flash I guess?
[16:22] <Chipaca> where were the generic-amd64 snap sources?
[16:22]  * Chipaca <- bad memory
[16:25] <Chipaca> https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-systems
[16:25] <Chipaca> got it
[16:25] <ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-systems
[16:25] <ogra_> bah
[16:25] <Chipaca> mbuahaha
[16:25] <ogra_> :)
[16:40] <ev> elopio: what am I looking at? :) I mean I see SPI data in there (test_opportunity.json), but it’s also a wall of text
[16:40] <elopio> ev: you are looking at the output of the tests running in the bbb in the lab.
[16:40] <ev> woohoo
[16:40] <ev> running every day?
[16:41] <elopio> they fail because the script is taking an outdated deb, but that's good, they should fail.
[16:41] <ev> hah!
[16:41] <elopio> ev: yes, they run every day, but for now deployed on my canonistack jenkins.
[16:41] <elopio> plars: sorry, I was on a hangout.
[16:43] <elopio> plars: let me try without a package. Just copying all the golang setup.
[16:43] <elopio> plars: but on travis we have the option to install packages and ppas. We are taking advantage of that in many of our tests, it would be nice if we could do it here too, somehow.
[16:45] <plars> elopio: thats on your test instance, which gets created/destroyed every time, in the spi case, that is equivilent to the system running snappy, which you can absolutely do whatever you want to it
[16:46] <plars> creating a new host for it each time, would require another provisioned instance in the middle of the device host, and the device itself.. it's something we could explore but would be complicated and add some additional time to the process
[16:46] <fgimenez> elopio, can you please take a look at https://github.com/fgimenez/snappy-github-plugin/pull/2 when you have time?
[16:46] <elopio> plars: that's the problem with this model. We need to do stuff on the test bed, and on the controller.
[16:47] <elopio> the way to avoid that was to package the stuff of the controller in this deb package that is on the ppa.
[16:47] <fgimenez> elopio, jenkins job triggered from github, if you could propose a PR for testing it would be great
[16:47] <plars> elopio: I think we can work with what you want to do pretty easily, we just need to separate what is required/stable infrastructure from what is being tested
[16:48] <elopio> plars: let me first tackle the daily problem with what you have today.
[16:48] <plars> elopio: and I think it might make things easier for your use case if you don't feel like you have to build everything on the test host
[16:48] <elopio> then we will try to solve harder problems, like testing the branches and testing snapcraft.
[16:48] <plars> elopio: for example, you can do whatever you want on your jenkins, build a new version of snappy tools, ubuntu-device-flash, etc... and ship those down to the job when it runs. It would also likely cut your execution time
[16:48] <elopio> fgimenez: woohoo.
[16:48] <fgimenez> elopio, your user is whitelisted, so the job should be triggered automatically. you can trigger a rebuild with a comment "retest this please"
[16:49] <elopio> fgimenez: I need to walk with the dog because he's driving me crazy. I will try when I return.
[16:49] <fgimenez> elopio, ok thx!
[16:50] <elopio> fgimenez: so wait, if I propose a branch to ubuntu-core/snappy it will take it and run tests for it?
[16:50] <fgimenez> elopio, no, its only for that repo, and the build is currently a couple of echo commands
[16:50] <elopio> ahhh
[16:50] <fgimenez> elopio, you should fork it and PR to it
[16:51] <elopio> fgimenez: cool. bbs.
[17:27] <ev> elopio: awesome!
[18:49] <plars> sergiusens: would something like https://github.com/plars/snapcraft/tree/empty-plugin be welcome? I saw some discussion about possibly having something like this and/or modifying copy to make it not require files to copy... but I think that's a bit confusing (copy but don't *really* copy)
[18:49] <sergiusens> plars, we wanted to call it the 'null' plugin :-)
[18:49] <plars> sergiusens: as an added bonus, it enables things like https://github.com/plars/snapcraft/commit/9118f2bb67c10c868109cdc5d3ac5052bbe28121 - testing init with parts specified
[18:49] <plars> sergiusens: yeah, I tried that, but it turns out null is a special word in yaml I think :)
[18:50] <plars> sergiusens: it choked on that
[18:50] <plars> it reads it as NoneType
[18:51] <plars> on a related note, I don't see a way to actually use snapcraft init with the partname specified with the current set. All of them seem to have required args with no way to specify. Is that an issue with snapcraft, or an issue with me not seeing how to specify it? :)
[18:52] <plars> I don't see any way at the moment to specify it, but perhaps I'm just missing it
[18:57] <zyga> sergiusens, plars: joc_ implemented a null plugin earlier this week :)
[19:01] <sergiusens> zyga, I don't see it! :-D
[19:01] <sergiusens> plars, init with parts needs some love/refactor
[19:01] <zyga> sergiusens: it was merged to plainbox-provider-p... as a local plugin
[19:01] <zyga> sergiusens: I encouraged joc to propose it to snapcraft
[19:02] <zyga> sergiusens: if you want I can dig it out and push
[19:02] <zyga> sergiusens: no tests though
[19:02] <zyga> sergiusens: (it's really trivial though)
[19:02] <joc_> very trivial
[19:03] <sergiusens> joc_, zyga we can use it in our unit tests instead of the mocked plugins though and then, yay, tests ;-)
[19:03] <sergiusens> but deal with plars since he has one there too
[19:04] <zyga> joc_: see if your plugins is any different from the one plars made and let's get one landed in snapcraft
[19:04] <zyga> joc_: less x- the better
[19:07] <plars> zyga: ah, I didn't even know that, I'm not subscribed to that I guess
[19:07] <plars> joc_: you should propose then
[22:16] <zyga> sergiusens: hey, leo reported something about scenarios for thest that have the same steps
[22:16] <zyga> sergiusens: that sounds awfully like templates which we do support
[22:16] <zyga> sergiusens: do you know more what he was thinking about?
[22:17] <tedg> elopio: ^
[22:17] <zyga> tedg: ah, thanks
[22:18] <elopio> zyga: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/blob/master/integration-tests/units/examples.pxu
[22:18] <elopio> all the tests in there are the same, changing the dir.
[22:18] <elopio> zyga: tell me more about templates...
[22:18] <zyga> elopio: perfect :)
[22:18] <zyga> elopio: it's very easy, write one more job that does the equvalent of ls examples/*
[22:18] <zyga> elopio: and prints something like this to stdout:
[22:18] <zyga> elopio: name: godd\n\n
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: name: gopaste\n\n
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: etc
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: make that a plugin: resource
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: and run it to see that it works OK
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: then step two
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: take any of the example jobs
[22:19] <zyga> elopio: replace the name of the example with {name}
[22:19] <zyga> and stick this up front in the unit:
[22:19] <zyga> unit: template
[22:19] <zyga> template-unit: job
[22:19] <zyga> template-resource: id-of-the-resource-you-made
[22:20] <zyga> then last step is to stick the resource in front of the test plan
[22:20] <zyga> and also add one more field to the test plan: boostrap_jobs: id-of-the-resource-you-made
[22:20] <zyga> (you have to reference it twice for now)
[22:20] <zyga> elopio: I'll give you the man page with everything
[22:20] <elopio> zyga: I'll try when I get back and report how it went. Thanks.
[22:21] <zyga> elopio: http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/manpages/plainbox-template-units.html
[22:21] <zyga> elopio: scroll to the example
[22:21] <zyga> elopio: just one gotcha, { } are expanded with python format-like system
[22:22] <zyga> elopio: so {{ }} are good for quoting
[22:22] <zyga> elopio: that's not mentioned in the man page
[22:22] <zyga> elopio: you will have to do quoting
[22:22] <zyga> elopio: or drop ${foo} in favour of $foo
[22:23] <zyga> elopio: try it and send me a link tomorrow, if anything needs tweaking I'll help you out
[22:24] <zyga> elopio: the only weird thing with templates is that with the new world we're going to (all the new tools but _not_ plainbox CLI yet), resource jobs that instantiate jobs from templates need to be listed in boostrap_include in the test plan
[22:24] <zyga> elopio: http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/manpages/plainbox-test-plan-units.html
[22:24] <zyga> elopio: but plainbox CLI is the last thing to go and for that you still have to just list it in the plain include section
[22:24] <zyga> elopio: so list it twice and that will be okay


[00:00] <blueyed> abentley: why have you silently duplicated bug 195578? - it's not the same
[00:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 195578 in bzr ""bzr revert" does not backup symlinks and empty directories (dup-of: 87548)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195578
[00:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 87548 in bzr "bzr add and revert on symlink deletes symlink" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87548
[00:05] <poolie> lifeless: bad tab completion?
[00:07] <lifeless> poolie: yes
[00:07] <lifeless> Prodoc: np
[00:08] <Prodoc> :-)
[00:09] <Prodoc> time for a nap again, goodnight all
[01:30] <bob2> is bzr+http support on launchpad planned anytime soon?
[01:30] <poolie> yes, thumper would know more
[01:31] <thumper> bob2: yes, real soon now
[01:31] <poolie> lol
[01:31] <poolie> thanks for the more precise answer :)
[01:34] <bob2> heh, great
[01:36] <lifeless> argh
[01:37] <lifeless> run_bzr working_dir=xxx breaks our test HttpServer
[01:37] <lifeless> _now_ that that is sorted, I just now need to fix it :|
[01:57] <lifeless> yay test passing. what a waste of time that was
[01:58] <AfC> Hooray for time wasters!
[02:05] <blueyed> yay.. I'm finished for today restoring my symlinks, empty directories (including svn checkouts) in /etc.
[02:15] <lifeless> blueyed: I really regret that you had that experience
[02:31] <lifeless> is there a command line to set the public_location of a branch ?
[04:03] <Odd_Bloke> So I notice that there are two formats of name/bug number for fixes, namely "(#123456, Foo Bar)" and "(Foo Bar, #123456)".  Which should I use?
[04:04] <lifeless> Odd_Bloke: where
[04:05] <Odd_Bloke> lifeless: In NEWS (to clarify).  Everything under IN DEVELOPMENT uses the former, and BUGFIXES of 1.2 has examples of both.
[04:13] <Peng> I've always thought the correct one was the former.
[04:14]  * Odd_Bloke would've opted for the latter.
[04:15] <fullermd> Sad that your choices are limited to orderings in only one dimension...
[04:17] <johnny> ?
[04:25] <lifeless> Odd_Bloke: hmm, Look at 1.1's area, that will probably make it more clear :)
[04:27] <Odd_Bloke> lifeless: It does, thanks. :)
[04:28] <pooli1> thanks
[04:28] <pooli1> Odd_Bloke: are you all set for london
[04:33] <Odd_Bloke> pooli1: Yup, should be turning up early afternoon.
[04:52] <Peng> Err, wait.
[04:53] <Peng> I like the latter, not the former.
[04:53]  * Peng checks.
[04:53] <Peng> Yeah. (The Name, #1234).
[04:53] <Odd_Bloke> Sanity is restored! :)
[05:03] <igc> bbiab
[05:07] <kohwj> ok, branching and merging are good things, but what happens when a user branches and makes changes to the branch, while another user makes changes to main, and then a merge is attempted?
[05:07] <bob2> depends if they texttually conflict or not
[05:07] <bob2> if they're different files, merge just works without intervention
[05:09] <kohwj> bob2: i see. if the same file is changed in the branch and main, manual intervention is needed?
[05:10] <bob2> depends if the changes overlap or not
[05:12] <johnny> two seperate changes to two seperate areas of the file shouldn't cause a problem
[05:13] <kohwj> that's nice!
[05:13] <kohwj> thank you!
[05:13] <bob2> (same as every revision control system I've ever heard of)
[05:14] <kohwj> i'm new to vcs
[05:20] <johnny> kohwj, it's an interesting area
[05:20] <AfC> kohwj: you're lucky. Most of us started with RCS, SCCS, or CVS. Those were dark days indeed :)
[05:20] <johnny> kohwj, if you want your mind blown, read the revctrl mailing list
[05:21] <johnny> unless you have a degree in graph theory..
[06:03] <kohwj> johnny: heh
[06:04] <johnny> luckily we can just let the smarties do it :)
[06:37] <lifeless> win 20
[06:37] <bob2> lose all
[06:37] <lifeless> tie nothing
[06:38] <lifeless> bob2: thanks for the patch
[06:38] <bob2> did it work?
[06:50] <lifeless> haven't applied it yet
[06:50] <lifeless> will do so on the plane tomorrow
[06:50] <lifeless> bob2: did you write a test for it ? :)
[06:50] <bob2> ah, have a nice trip
[06:50] <bob2> lol
[06:51] <bob2> what do you take me for ;)
[06:52] <lifeless> just asking!
[06:55] <abentley> bob2: You know, some guy's been using your name on a blog about ODF
[06:56] <bob2> haha
[06:57] <lifeless> abentley: the guy with the scyth?
[06:57] <lifeless> bob2: you _so_ have to get a job with ibm
[06:57] <abentley> lifeless: eh?
[06:58] <bob2> I'd love an exciting job at ibm working on office file formats!
[06:59] <lifeless> abentley: http://www.robweir.com/blog/rob.html
[06:59] <lifeless> abentley: not bob2
[07:00] <abentley> Ah, I'd forgotten about the scythe bit.
[08:32]  * igc dinner
[08:46] <lifeless> spiv: cool thanks
[08:53] <visit0r> why is bzr outputting basic output to stderr?
[08:53] <visit0r> any way to change this so it would output only if something's wrong?
[08:59] <lifeless> output to stdout is the requested output, not status or debug or error info
[08:59] <lifeless> output to stderr can be reduced/made quiet by -q
[09:00] <lifeless> though we don't claim to have audited all commands yet
[09:00] <visit0r> hmm ok, always tought it's primarily for error messages
[09:00] <visit0r> but thanks anyways
[09:09] <lifeless> visit0r: we want e.g. 'bzr diff | less' to only ever have the content of the diff
[09:12] <visit0r> lifeless: ok, sounds reasonable
[11:34] <liw> how do I make bzr forget the parent branch (set by "bzr pull")?
[11:39] <quicksilver> I know how to make it remember a new one
[11:39] <quicksilver> does that help?
[11:40] <quicksilver> I don't know how to make it forget without that though
[11:40] <quicksilver> bzr pull --remember new://url
[11:41] <liw> hmm, I can make it remember the empty string, which it translates to the current working directory -- ugly, but at least a partial solution
[11:41] <bob2> you can delete the line from .bzr/branch/branch.confg, as a last resort
[11:42] <liw> bob2, yep, that worked -- slightly ugly to do, but good enough for now
[11:43] <liw> thanks
[12:20] <Bronger> Is there another GNU program of the size of Bazaar written in Python?
[12:21] <bob2> mailman, maybe?
[12:22] <TFKyle> Bronger: don't think so (can't think of any Version Control Systems created by GNU offhand)
[12:22] <Bronger> I didn't only think of VC software.  Mailman, yes, this is also large.  Didn't know that it is part of GNU, but you're right.
[12:23] <bob2> at least rcs and cssc are gnu vcs (and not in python)
[12:23] <TFKyle> ah, just in general
[12:24] <Bronger> ... and GNU arch.
[12:24] <bob2> touche
[13:02] <lifeless> Bronger: I'm not sure how 'big' bzr is to really answer that ;)
[14:18] <Prodoc> good afternoon
[14:20] <Prodoc> how do I commit and push using the bazaar eclipse plugin?
[14:24] <Prodoc> I've created a bazaar snapshot of an existing eclipse project (local), now I'd like to commit the changes to the branch and push them to the ftp server (php project)
[14:24] <Bronger> lifeless, I don't undertand what you say, sorry.
[14:27] <beuno> Verterok, ^
[14:55] <awilkins> Prodoc: Pushing is not deploying, if that's what you want
[14:55] <awilkins> Prodoc: Pushing only updates the remote branch, not the working tree of the remote branch
[15:02] <Prodoc> awilkins: the only thing I've got remote is simply a FTP server to access the hosted website. This is what I want to update after changes have been commited
[15:02] <jdong> Prodoc: bzr will not update the user-visible contents on a push. It only updates the stuff inside .bzr
[15:04] <Prodoc> aha, so what is it what I should do to update the site and (how) can this be done in eclipse?
[15:12] <jdong> Prodoc: the only form of access you have is FTP?
[15:12] <Prodoc> yes
[15:13] <jdong> Prodoc: AFAIK bzr won't have a way to do this for you. My suggestion would be to "bzr export" to some directory, then use an uploader like ncftpput to upload that exported directory up to your website
[15:13] <jdong> you could script those two actions so that it's less of a pain
[15:15] <Prodoc> But that would be a simple overwrite, wouldn't it? What if someone else made changes to the online content?
[15:16] <Prodoc> ah, it appears to be possible: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#id40 now the only thing that remains is to find out how this is handled in exclipse by the bazaar plugin
[15:17] <luks> branching?
[15:17] <Prodoc> sorry, one down: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#id41
[15:17] <Prodoc> he, luks?
[15:17] <Prodoc> :-D
[15:17] <luks> :)
[15:17] <luks> merging works with branches, not files
[15:18] <luks> the fact that you have some files on the server is completey unrelevant to bzr
[15:18] <luks> the only data it needs are under the .bzr dir
[15:19] <Prodoc> aha
[15:19] <luks> also, it's probably not a good idea to have published .bzr dirs on a public http server
[15:20] <luks> so what you want if you work with some other people is to have a common location to push/pull/merge from bzr, and a way to update the live site from that location
[15:20] <Prodoc> true, I wanted to address that issue once I got it working ;-)
[15:20] <luks> bzr is only a version control tool, not a deployment tool :)
[15:22] <Prodoc> too bad ;-)
[15:25] <Prodoc> my only option is to use FTP, live or not. What if I simply upload a branch, could that work?
[15:26] <luks> you can simply push to FTP
[15:26] <luks> but it will push only the .bzr dir
[15:26] <luks> then if somebody else already pushed to the branch, it will complain
[15:27] <luks> so you know you have to merge the changes
[15:27] <luks> but after you do all this, you need a way to upload the actual files
[15:28] <Prodoc> creating an export of the branch
[15:29] <Prodoc> no?
[15:30] <luks> that's one way
[15:30] <Prodoc> hmm, not really handy if I only have FTP access to the server
 also, it's probably not a good idea to have published .bzr dirs on a public http server <-- why's that? just because he might have private config stuff in the branch or?
[15:31] <luks> if it's html only site it doesn't matter
[15:32] <luks> but you usually don't publish the source code of your websites
[15:32]  * TFKyle tends to :)
[15:32]  * luks tends to work on commercial ones
[15:33] <luks> and for the free ones, there are better ways to push the source code :)
[15:33] <luks> er, publish
[15:53] <jdong> Prodoc: another way to handle changes in content involves "getting" all of the website, locally doing a 3-way merge, then pushing back the merged results
[15:53] <jdong> this assumes during that time, nobody writes to the website, of course...
[15:53] <jdong> Prodoc: ultimately having only FTP access really cripples what you can do
[16:01] <awilkins> If you're using Windows you can do worse than Beyond Compare 2 for deploying webs over FTP
[16:02] <awilkins> It even utilises the remote CRC function if your FTP server supports it, cuts down your transfer times
[16:03] <awilkins> Will also note which files on either side are newer
[16:46] <Prodoc> I think I'll search for a better solution. In the mean time, how to I commit changes to my local branch using Exclipse?
[17:59] <shaya> in bazaar, how does one revert a patch in the middle?
[17:59] <shaya> i.e. revisions 1 2 3 4 5, want to undo revision 3?
[18:00] <shaya> is there an automated way, or does one have to do it manually (make a patch that is version 3, patch in reverse, commit)
[18:00] <LeoNerd> bzr merge -r 3..2
[18:00] <LeoNerd> ((or maybe 4..3   I forget offhand))
[18:01] <shaya> I'd assume 3..2 probably
[18:01] <LeoNerd> It's the reverse of the change from rev2 to rev3, so I guess that sounds right
[18:02] <shaya> thanks
[18:10] <shaya> here's a bigger issue
[18:10] <shaya> on my feisty box
[18:10] <shaya> ImportError: No module named bzrlib
[18:10] <shaya> this is using the unbuntu package
[18:11] <shaya> do I really need a PYTHONPATH on ubuntu?
[18:28] <Stavros> hello
[18:29] <Stavros> is there a good bzr plugin for eclipse?
[18:37] <Prodoc> Stavros : are there more then one?
[18:37] <Prodoc> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrEclipse
[18:37] <Stavros> Prodoc: no idea
[18:37] <Stavros> is it good?
[18:38] <Prodoc> can't tell yet, just started playing with it but I it's a bit confusing
[18:38] <Prodoc> and it's far from complete
[18:38] <Stavros> ah, hmm
[18:38] <Prodoc> (see the website)
[18:38] <Stavros> well, i just installed subclipse and i have no idea how even that works
[18:38] <Prodoc> haha
[18:39] <Stavros> eclipse is confusing :/
[18:39] <Stavros> where IS everything :(
[18:39] <Prodoc> it's a bit of getting used to yes
[18:39] <Prodoc> too many options
[18:39] <Stavros> yeah
[18:39] <Prodoc> too many shortcutsd
[18:39] <Stavros> but pydev is great
[18:39] <Prodoc> -s
[18:39] <Prodoc> -d
[18:39] <Prodoc> darn
[18:39] <Stavros> haha
[18:40] <Stavros> hortcuts?
[18:40] <Stavros> i looked into buying pydev but you can only rent it, apparently
[18:40] <Prodoc> shortcutsd -d
[18:40] <Prodoc> typo
[18:40] <Stavros> i know :P
[18:41] <Prodoc> let me know if you manage to find a BzrEclipse manual ;-)
[18:41] <Stavros> will do
[18:41] <Stavros> but first i must find bzreclipse :P
[18:41] <Prodoc> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrEclipse
[18:42] <Stavros> no, i installed it
[18:42] <Stavros> i need to find it in eclipse :p
[18:42] <Prodoc> haha
[18:42] <Odd_Bloke> Stavros: PyDev is under the Eclipse Public License.
[18:42] <Stavros> Odd_Bloke: pydev extensions isn't, though
[18:43] <Odd_Bloke> Stavros: Ah, I see.
[18:43] <Prodoc> Stavros: finding the settings is the easy bit, as far as I can tell all the rest is in the file context menu
[18:43] <Stavros> oh hmm
[18:43] <Prodoc> in the explorer
[18:44] <Stavros> aha
[18:44] <Prodoc> but that might only appear if you're viewing an actual branch
[18:44] <Stavros> oh hmm, let me create a project then
[18:45] <Stavros> damn its eyes, i can't create a project in an existing folder
[18:45] <Stavros> anyway this isn't #eclipse, so i'll keep my ranting to myself :p
[18:46] <Prodoc> Stavros: I assume you'll get less help for bazaar in exclipse in that channel than here
[18:46] <Stavros> haha, true
[18:47] <Stavros> it's ok though, i found the file browser so it should be there
[18:47] <Stavros> i have to go now, thanks for your help
[18:47] <Prodoc> np
[19:59] <thatch> I'm using bzr 1.2 with a 1.1 server over bzr+ssh... I got the "Server is too old for fast get_parent_map", is that supposed to break locks itself before reconnecting?
[20:01] <thatch> I ctrl-c'd the second password prompt, then had to break the lock myself even though the process had exited when the first ssh session was over (I think)
[20:05] <james_w> thatch: I imagine it might hold the lock so that it knows no-one else nipped in while it was reconnecting.
[20:06] <james_w> I don't know how it works though, so I'm just speculating.
[20:06] <lifeless> hi james_w
[20:07] <lifeless> thatch: it won't break the lock before reconnecting
[20:07] <lifeless> thatch: the server is stateless
[20:07] <james_w> hi lifeless
[20:08] <mib_oa5m0u19> having an issue with merging where I get "nothing to do" even though there are changes - anyone able to help?
[20:08] <lifeless> mib_oa5m0u19: what do you mean
[20:09] <mib_oa5m0u19> if I create a feature branch off a main branch and make some changes, then try to merge those changes into the main branch using bzr merge, I just get "nothing to do"
[20:10] <lifeless> mib_oa5m0u19: are your changes visible in 'bzr missing $feature_branch_url' or 'bzr log $feature_branch_url'
[20:10] <Odd_Bloke> mib_oa5m0u19: You need to have commited the changes in the feature branch.
[20:11] <mib_oa5m0u19> ok, so when I am in the feature branch
[20:11] <mib_oa5m0u19> I type bzr commit?
[20:11] <mib_oa5m0u19> (this is my first time using bzr, btw....)
[20:11] <Odd_Bloke> mib_oa5m0u19: 'bzr commit -m "<message>"', where <message> describes the changes you've made.
[20:12] <mib_oa5m0u19> great thanks
[20:12] <mib_oa5m0u19> that was the issue - i just didn't realize i had to had the -m option
[20:12] <mib_oa5m0u19> works now
[20:18] <Vadi> This is purely a cosmetics question, but when I do bzr branch <link>, it makes a folder with the branch name (ie, if my project name is vadi-mapper and branch is main, it'll make a folder called main). Is it possible to name the folder after the project name instead, not the branch?
[20:18] <Odd_Bloke> Vadi: 'bzr branch <from> <to>'
[20:19] <Vadi> So instead of "bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vadi-mapper-dev/vadi-mapper/main", try "bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vadi-mapper-dev/vadi-mapper/main vadi-mapper" ?
[20:20] <Odd_Bloke> Vadi: Yup.  Or you can just 'mv main vadi-mapper'. :p
[20:21] <Vadi> That would be like... whole 2 commands. Too much!
[20:21] <Odd_Bloke> This is true, but if you've already branched it once, then branching it again is almost certainly slower. :)
[20:22] <Vadi> -grin- thanks for the help
[20:24] <Vadi> Can I make bzr remember what location to push to, instead of asking everytime?
[20:24] <Odd_Bloke> Vadi: Have you tried pushing without specifying a location?
[20:25] <Vadi> Yes, and it complained - "No push location known or specified."
[20:25] <Odd_Bloke> Vadi: Sorry, have you tried pushing once with a location and then again without?
[20:26] <Vadi> Oh, that worked. Okay, excellent.
[20:27] <james_w> Vadi: if you are using launchpad then bzr branch lp:vadi-mapper will probably do what you want.
[20:28] <Vadi> Yes, I was told that wouldn't work on non-ubuntu though and the link is a better way to go
[20:28] <james_w> it should work on non-ubuntu, unless the launchpad plugin is disabled on whatever platform you are on.
[20:29] <thatch> lifeless: I put 1.1 back on the server and I'm able to reproduce the lock-left-open situation
[20:29] <Vadi> Is it enabled by default in mac/windows too?
[20:29] <lifeless> thatch: if you are hitting control-C rather than putting your password/key in again, then this is expected
[20:30] <lifeless> thatch: because at the point of reconnect we have a held lock. Then we drop the link. Then you interrupt bzr before it gets a new link.
[20:30] <lifeless> thatch: there is no way to remove the lock at that point :)
[20:31] <thatch> lifeless: hmm. so if users go "Oh! Yeah, I forgot to update bzr on the server" they must proceed to completion instead of stopping now to upgrade?
[20:31] <lifeless> thatch: or break the lock
[20:32] <lifeless> thatch: Its not beautiful, but really - what can we do about it that is both correct (dropping the lock isn't) and robust (asking for *another* password to break the lock when you hit enter is going to be confusing)
[20:32] <lifeless> when you hit ctrl-C I mena
[20:33] <thatch> lifeless: Yeah, you're between a rock and a hard place there.  The "entering the password twice" situation didn't actually get to me until after I'd entered the first of the pair though :)
[20:34] <Vadi> Odd_Bloke: I got a bit stumped on the push isntructions. The first time I'd do it it would be "bzr push b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- but that has my username in it. I'd tell the user to use their own launchpad name, yeah?
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> Vadi: Probably.
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> It does depend on your workflow.
[20:36] <Vadi> Well, the vadi-mapper-dev is a team I made.
[20:37] <Vadi> So people join in the team. Theoretically. So far someone has joined who I have no idea they are
[20:37] <lifeless> Vadi: the bit<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:37] <lifeless> Vadi: that is who *you* are, so launchpad will allow you access to your teams etc
[20:37] <Vadi> ahh
[20:38] <lifeless> for instance, if I was a collaborator that you allowed into the vadi-mapper-dev team
[20:38] <lifeless> then I would use<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:39] <Vadi> right, okay
[20:39] <Vadi> Um, be right back, something is really wrong with my X - it's been hogging the both cpu's at 50% for a while now and even the fans turned on.
[20:51] <lifeless> beuno: ping
[20:58] <bialix> hi, I have question about loom plugin
[20:59] <james_w> hi bialix
[20:59] <bialix> hi james_w
[20:59] <lifeless> hi bialix
[20:59] <lifeless> bialix: ask away
[21:00] <bialix> why for 'record' command is needed
[21:00] <bialix> ?
[21:00] <lifeless> to version the loom
[21:01] <bialix> I'm using loom for versioning my own package for our custom Slackware Linux. I did commit, but not record. Is it wrong?
[21:01] <lifeless> bialix: cool
[21:02] <bialix> record seems strange for me
[21:02] <lifeless> bialix: its not wrong; but you can't share the loom with other people - merge at the loom layer - without recording
[21:02] <lifeless> bialix: imagine that you had each thread as a separate directory on disk
[21:02] <bialix> what do you mean 'merge at the loom layer;'?
[21:02] <lifeless> bialix: for me to get the same directories, I would need to list-dir, then branch each one
[21:03] <lifeless> bialix: the loom is a text file that lists branch names & revision ids.
[21:03] <bialix> but commit did update loom references for heads
[21:03] <lifeless> bialix: commit updates the revision ids yes.
[21:03] <bialix> why I need record?
[21:03] <lifeless> bialix: if you want to give me a copy of the loom
[21:04] <lifeless> bialix: or if you want to see what the loom looked like some days ago
[21:04] <lifeless> as bzr help loom says -
[21:04] <bialix> I thought the loom is just metaphor around several heads in one branch. Is it not?
[21:04] <lifeless> its more than that
[21:05] <bialix> when I do bzr log I see ordinal bzr history with merges
[21:05] <lifeless> it can also _version_ that list
[21:05] <bialix> how can I see the version from record?
[21:05] <bialix> I mean log?
[21:05] <lifeless> I haven't written a command to do that yet ;)
[21:06] <bialix> there is no loom-log
[21:06] <lifeless> if you do a record
[21:06] <lifeless> and then do bzr heads --dead-only
[21:06] <bialix> so it should be additional command?
[21:06] <lifeless> yeah, or perhaps an option to 'bzr log'
[21:07] <lifeless> perhaps bzr log should just annotate the output with thread details; and have an option to only show the history of the loom
[21:08] <bialix> something odd in my head. loom have 2 different histories?
[21:08] <lifeless> yes. history of the _loom_, and _history of the source code_
[21:09] <lifeless> normal branches only have _history of the source code_
[21:11] <bialix> can you point me to actual code?
[21:12] <bialix> loom history goes to repository storage?
[21:14] <bialix> at first I thought that loom islike named branches in hg. but then I understand it's not. but I have no experience with Mercurial Queue though.
[21:15] <lifeless> branch.py - LoomMetaTree, and record_loom
[21:15] <beuno> lifeless, pong
[21:15] <lifeless> and pull sa well
[21:15] <lifeless> pull *as well*
[21:15] <lifeless> beuno: hi, re debian packages and bazaar/bzr
[21:16] <lifeless> beuno: will you be doing the packaging patches and sending to BTS ?
[21:18] <beuno> lifeless, for Ubuntu?  I'm neither DD nor UD, so I can't really upload to anywhere. I'll be more than glad to help out doing the heavy lifting though
[21:19] <bialix> lifeless: record is calling regular commit under the hood?
[21:19] <lifeless> beuno: please do :)
[21:20] <lifeless> beuno: for me its just time, if we have patches in the BTS its a big help
[21:20] <lifeless> beuno: (and I'm ubuntu-dev, but not ubuntu-core-dev, so can't upload some of it anyhow)
[21:20] <lifeless> bialix: yes, for a separate tree
[21:20] <lifeless> bialix: the separate tree contains one file
[21:20] <bialix> separate tree?
[21:21] <lifeless> called 'loom' with fileid 'loom_meta_tree'
[21:21] <lifeless> bialix: yes, the loom project
[21:21] <beuno> lifeless, alright, sounds good, we'll find someone to bug. This would basically be making "bazaar" install baz and bzr, right?  The first step
[21:21] <lifeless> bialix: really, try doing heads --dead-only after a record
[21:21] <lifeless> beuno: yeah, whatever we said the other day :>
[21:22] <bialix> lifeless: ok will do
[21:22] <lifeless> bialix: then branch the revision you file to /tmp/whatever
[21:22] <lifeless> bialix: and have a look at whats there :)
[21:23] <beuno> lifeless, hehe, alright. I'm getting on a plane in a few hours towards Madrid, so I'll be offline for a day or so. I'll take a look at it and see if we can have that done during the sprint. Sound good?
[21:23] <bialix> ok, I think separate tree is a bit of hack. But if I need commit additional file along with dirstate. How I should do it?
[21:23] <james_w> lifeless: confirmed status still exists doesn't it? Or has it been removed on edge?
[21:24] <lifeless> james_w: I was whinging because confirmed is useless now
[21:24] <lifeless> james_w: if its not triaged it will get deleted.
[21:24] <lifeless> bialix: cool
[21:24] <lifeless> bialix: sorry, wrong nickname
[21:24] <lifeless> beuno: cool
[21:24] <james_w> beuno: I'll be happy to work on it during the sprint if it's not done by then.
[21:25] <james_w> beuno: with you of course, I forgot those two words :)
[21:25] <lifeless> bialix: separate tree is for the loom metadata only; I'm trying to make the guts visible to you.
[21:25] <james_w> lifeless: that does sound wrong to me.
[21:25] <lifeless> bialix: anything for your normal source code just do what you do with bzr commit
[21:26] <beuno> james_w, great, thanks. Glad that's getting done in time.
[21:26] <bialix> lifeless: yes, I understand intend
[21:26] <mwhudson> lifeless: it's only incomplete bugs that get expired, and only if the project switches that feature on
[21:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: its incomplete if its < triaged is it not ?
[21:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: that was my understanding
[21:26] <mwhudson> incomplete is a separate status
[21:27] <lifeless> mwhudson: anyhow, write this up to 'user got bitten, user remembers workaround _forever_'
[21:27]  * beuno goes continue packing
[21:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: thus, we must never make mistakes
[21:28] <mwhudson> lifeless: it's even documented! https://help.launchpad.net/BugExpiry
[21:28] <lifeless> mwhudson: righto, so it has changed :)
[21:29] <lifeless> mwhudson: never making mistakes is not a corollary to what I said :)
[21:29] <mwhudson> the fact that so many bugs got expired the first time it run was a bad bad bug
[21:29] <lifeless> mwhudson: indeed
[21:30] <lifeless> mwhudson: I simply had remember the workaround for the initial implementation
[21:30] <lifeless> mwhudson: because that got rather effectively burnt in
[21:36] <bialix> does launchpad means 'area where rockets launch to outer space'?
[21:36] <lifeless> yes
[21:36] <bialix> thanks
[21:44] <ig1> morning all
[21:49] <abentley> lifeless: mats is specifically complaining that wget -c doesn't skip files he's already downloaded.
[21:53] <Verterok> Prodoc: I'm working in bzr-eclipse, there is no Manual (yet)
[21:55] <Verterok> Prodoc: in the meantime shoot any question you have about it :-)
[21:55]  * Verterok says Hi to everyone
[21:56] <Prodoc> yeah, I noticed :-( It took me some time to figure it out being new to eclipse and bazaar but I finally found out how to use it. I took the liberty to add the very basis to the installation page if you don't mind ;-)
[21:58] <Prodoc> (http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrEclipse/Installation Kick-start section) though it might need some more clarification, like I said, I'm new to both so this only counts for a clean setup
[21:59] <Prodoc> so additional steps might be required and there might be different methods as well
[22:00] <Prodoc> at least this actually gave me the all the actions like commit, etc.
[22:01] <Verterok> Prodoc: great, thanks! it's a wiki, y're wellcome to edit it :-)
[22:01] <Verterok> it's looks good :-D
[22:02] <Prodoc> This should be sufficient for the new users, other don't really need it, more should go in a separate manual
[22:02] <Prodoc> others
[22:03] <james_w> hi Verterok
[22:04] <james_w> hi igc
[22:04] <Verterok> sure, it was my mistake to assume that everyone using bzr-eclipse will know eclipse :)
[22:04] <Verterok> Prodoc: I'm planing to add Help integrated in the Eclipse help system, but first it must be written :P
[22:04] <Verterok> james_w: hi
[22:05] <Prodoc> Verterok: what is the opposite of the 'Share Project...' action? First I thought it was Disconnect but I've got the feeling that this applies to the branch, not just the removal of the Bazaar stuff in Eclipse because of the confirmation dialogue
[22:05] <Prodoc> to get rid of the Bazaar stuff again
[22:05] <Prodoc> in Eclipse
[22:06] <Verterok> Prodoc: for the moment Disconnect only remove bzr-eclipse support from the Project, but it'll let you choose to completely wipe bzr control files
[22:08] <Verterok> I take a conservative approach on this, mainly because I usually kill the branch (and the working tree) when I merge it in trunk
[22:08] <Prodoc> ok, so it's save to use it? It won't kill the branch?
[22:09] <Verterok> Prodoc: sure :). For the moment bzr-eclipse maps each command with the corresponding CLI one.
[22:10] <Verterok> it only removes bzr-eclipse support
[22:10] <Prodoc> ok, cool :-)
[22:15] <Prodoc> It might be an idea to change the message from 'Are you sure you want to disconnect Bazaar from '<project name>'' to something like 'Are you sure you want to disconnect Bazaar from the Eclipse project '<project name>'?' With or without including 'Eclipse' (note the question mark as well ;-) ) to make it clear that it doesn't do anything to the files/branch but only to the Eclipse project.
[22:16] <Prodoc> e.g. the project name and containing folder name are identical, hence the confusion
[22:17] <Verterok> Prodoc: it's sound ok. could you fill a bug about this?
[22:18]  * Verterok brb
[22:18] <Prodoc> Verterok: or maybe Bazaar should be changed to something else as well make indicate that it's the plugin we are dealing with, not an actual bazaar action
[22:21] <ubotu> New bug: #195927 in bzr "bzr commands not available after suspend-to-disk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195927
[22:36] <lifeless> hi poolie
[22:36] <lifeless> do you want a lift to the airport?
[22:38] <poolie> hello
[22:38] <poolie> that would be nice
[22:39] <poolie> i think you said you were aiming to get there at 4 - the flight is at 6 so that's a bit tight...
[22:43] <mwhudson> this code raises an exception: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57523/
[22:43] <mwhudson> is it doing something silly?
[22:43] <mwhudson> (this is what prevents viewing an empty branch with loggerhead right now)
[22:44] <poolie> hm
[22:45] <poolie> i kind of think you're meant to create a memoryserver and get a transport from that
[22:45] <poolie> but presumably that's not what's breaking
[22:45] <poolie> so presumably the problem is that get_revision_graph doesn't like being given the null revision?
[22:45] <poolie> that would probably be a bug
[22:46] <mwhudson> no, it's the merge_sort that fails
[22:46] <mwhudson> sorry, perhaps i should have been more clear
[22:47] <poolie> it doesn't like being given an empty graph?
[22:47] <mwhudson> b = "get me a branch with no revisions in it"
[22:47] <mwhudson> right
[22:47] <Prodoc> time for a nap again, goodnight all
[22:47] <poolie> just a bug, presumably
[22:47] <poolie> should be trivila
[22:47] <mwhudson> poolie: ok
[22:47] <poolie> could you try to write a test for it?
[22:47] <poolie> it may just need an adjustment to an 'if' in tsort
[22:49] <mwhudson> hm, maybe this is a fallout from the move to using "null:" for the null revision
[22:53] <mwhudson> oh grr, i can't import NULL_REVISION in tsort.py :/
[22:55] <mwhudson> poolie: this seems to suffice http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57525/ but it's not clean at all
[22:56] <poolie> you can't import it because of circular dependencies?
[22:58] <mwhudson> yeah
[22:58] <mwhudson> revision imports deprecated_graph imports tsort
[22:58] <poolie> well, just import the module then and do mod_revision.null_revision
[22:58] <poolie> thisi s done elsewhere
[22:58] <poolie> if you could also just add a test you have my +1
[22:59] <mwhudson> that doesn't work either
[22:59] <mwhudson> poolie: i did add a test, or a line to a test
[22:59] <mwhudson> maybe something to do with lazy imports?
[23:03] <poolie> yes could be
[23:03] <igc> poolie: call on today?
[23:04] <poolie> yes
[23:04] <mwhudson> seems not, found a workaround though
[23:04] <mwhudson> (sometimes it amazes me that any python program manages to import anything at all)
[23:18] <mwhudson> boy, there seem be a lot of unused imports in bzrlib
[23:18] <johnny> you guys using pylint or pychecker ?
[23:20] <bob2> lazy_import breaks them
[23:20] <johnny> fun...
[23:25] <spiv> Yeah, there are a few.
[23:25] <spiv> johnny: I use pyflakes sometimes, but lazy_import gets in the way.
[23:26] <spiv> pyflakes works a module at a time though, so it's fairly easy to comment out the lazy_import magic in a single module, run pyflakes on it, and then uncomment the magic.
[23:31] <mwhudson> spiv: "a few"?
[23:31] <mwhudson> you must have not looked recently :-)
[23:34] <spiv> mwhudson: I have a hackish branch at http://people.ubuntu.com/~andrew/bzr/faster-startup that removes some unused imports, among other things.
[23:35] <spiv> mwhudson: but I haven't tried checking many modules, just those that tend to be imported all the time.
[23:36] <mwhudson> spiv: well, i started alphabetically and spent 10 minutes on "branch.py" :)
[23:36] <mwhudson> (after option.py which was where i first noticed some silliness)
[23:49] <bignose> I'm getting an error <URL:http://pastebin.ca/919766> trying to 'bzr upgrade'
[23:49] <bignose> the upgrade is prompted by a 'bzr commit' giving "Repository<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is not compatible with repository KnitRepository('file:///home/bignose/Projects/.bzr/repository/')"
[23:49] <bignose> when I attempt to upgrade, I get the error shown at the pastebin URL above.
[23:50] <bignose> how can I get the commit to succeed?
[23:50] <bob2> bzr upgrade --rich-root
[23:50] <bignose> why, then, is that not the default?
[23:50] <spiv> bzr upgrade --rich-root-pack
[23:50] <bignose> or rather, why is something not-default actually necessary for this commit to succeed?
[23:51] <jamesh> bignose: because you're using bzr-svn?
[23:51] <bob2> does the repository you're commotting to have svn branches in it?
[23:51] <spiv> bignose: it's a bug, really.  What's happened is that you have a repo that is in a format that was never the default.
[23:52] <bignose> jamesh: I'm not.
[23:52] <jamesh> hmm
[23:52] <jamesh> then I wonder how your repo got into a richroot format?
[23:53] <spiv> bignose: and the default "bzr upgrade" doesn't have the smarts to pick a compatible (and again, non-default) format to upgrade to.
[23:55] <bob2> which non-default repo format?
[23:55] <bignose> okay. so, again, what do I need to do to fix this?
[23:55] <ubotu> New bug: #195962 in bzr "send -f (using bzr-svn): 'FakeControlFiles' object has no attribute 'put'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195962
[23:56] <bignose> bob2: I don't know. either of the ones that has been suggested here, which clearly aren't the default otherwise I wouldn't need to give an option to use them.
[23:56] <spiv> bob2: IIRC, bzr upgrade tries to upgrade pack-0.92 atm, but this needs rich-root-pack.
[23:57] <bignose> I vaguely recall performing a non-default 'bzr upgrade --foo-bar' suggested by someone in this channel to fix some earlier bug
[23:58] <bignose> so that may explain why it's currently in a non-default format
[23:58] <bignose> I'd be very happy to get the repo to a state where everything will work, including default 'bzr upgrade' in future.
[23:59] <bignose> but my immediate problem is to get this commit working
[23:59] <bignose> so, what do I need to do in order for a commit to this branch to succeed?