[00:08] <Spanky0521> good evening, i was wondering if someone could answer a question
[00:09] <Spanky0521> i have setup my storage directories and they are mounted, mythtv user and group has read write access to them.  however in the backend setup when i go to exit, it says it can't create a test file and asks if the directory is writeable
[00:09] <Spanky0521> what did i miss?
[00:14] <Spanky0521> i got it all fixed....fat fingered the directory permissions
[02:34] <lanuser> Hello - anyone using a commandir by chance?
[03:54] <technomalogical> anybody on here having the LIRC problem with Mythbuntu 8.04 Final?
[04:03] <technomalogical> is anyone having a problem with LIRC in Mythbuntu 8.04 Final?
[04:04] <technomalogical> I'm having a similar problem to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/207991
[04:04] <technomalogical> but the suggested fix didn't work for me
[04:04] <technomalogical> TIA, got IRC in screen, will check in the AM
[04:15] <TazgodX> im getting an error in mythweb when accessing the videos section
[04:15] <TazgodX> Could not create a symlink to /var/lib/mythtv/videos, the local MythVideo directory for this hostname (MythBox). Please create a symlink to your MythVideo directory at data/video in order to use the video portions of MythWeb.
[04:34] <TazgodX> anyone heard of that error?
[04:36] <rhpot1992> TazgodX: check the faqs
[04:38] <TazgodX> ive been checking a few places, found nothing on it
[04:40] <rhpot1991> TazgodX:
[04:40] <rhpot1991> TazgodX: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV/FAQs
[04:41] <TazgodX> ahhhh ;)
[04:53] <TazgodX> that works now :)
[05:45] <Wy|laptop> Hrm, is there a reason why my mpeg4 and h.264 playback is hideously slow on my myth box?
[05:49] <rhpot1991> Wy|laptop: cause they are cpu intensive?
[05:55] <TazgodX> hmm, why can't i upload images to my DVD covers folder
[05:56] <TazgodX> im too tired to be working on this still
[06:00] <rhpot1991> check your perms
[06:00] <TazgodX> what does it have to be?
[06:00] <rhpot1991> well all the other mythtv folders are 2775
[06:00] <rhpot1991> with mythtv:mythtv as the owner
[06:01] <Wy|laptop> sure, but a 2ghz A64x2 should be able to handle them, no?
[06:01] <TazgodX> well, i can write to it from within myth, but in mythweb it doesn't save the images when i browse to one, and when i connect via samba and can't manually upload to that folder. i can upload to the regular videos folder
[06:01]  * Wy|laptop ponders reinstalling windows on the htpc
[06:02] <rhpot1991> Wy|laptop: I would *think* you should be able to play them back
[06:02] <Wy|laptop> yeah, me too
[06:03] <Wy|laptop> but all I get is stutter. Same setup, they play fine under windows or osx
[06:04] <Wy|laptop> problem with the decode?
[06:27] <rhpot1991> are you using the correct graphics drivers?
[06:28] <Wy|laptop> yup
[06:28] <Wy|laptop> nvidia proprietary
[06:28] <Wy|laptop> also get the same problem with the open source ones
[06:28] <rhpot1991> is your cpu maxing out when you see the studders?
[06:28] <Wy|laptop> yup
[06:30] <rhpot1991> try playing the video with vlc or some other media player?
[06:30] <Wy|laptop> tried mplayer, vlc, xine
[06:31] <Wy|laptop> try playing back http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/Default.asp?a=download&vid=157
[06:34] <rhpot1991> about to go to bed, sorry
[07:05] <MythbuntuGuest96> hello, folks
[07:06] <MythbuntuGuest96> running mythbuntu 8.04 here; is there a way to disable the delete-recording confirmation prompts?
[07:07] <MythbuntuGuest96> i find i'm almost always certain i want to delete something, but if i make a mistake, can always go to the deleted recordings group to recover.
[07:08] <MythbuntuGuest96> no need for the extra button presses to select "yes, i'm sure i want to delete", and enter the choice
[07:25] <TazgodX> hmm, so i have mythweb set up so i can edit info for videos i upload now. and i have it so i can upload images for videos. and it shows up in mythweb correctly, and it shows the image in video manager, but i can't see it when i browse videos.
[08:00] <TazgodX> found why i can't get my images to show up in Myth. when i upload over the net with mythweb an image for my video its permissions are screwed up. my user can't even access it.
[10:16] <Ryan1980> hello
[10:18] <Ryan1980> I would like to help with the MythBuntu manual
[10:19] <Ryan1980> How can I get involved?
[10:20] <laga> :)
[10:20] <laga> hi rage
[10:20] <laga> err, Ryan1980
[10:20] <laga> Ryan1980: you can get the source for the documentation there: https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/documentation
[10:21] <laga> Ryan1980: join #ubuntu-mythtv-dev for devlopment stuff.. i've gotta run now, bbl
[10:28] <Ryan1980> Ok Laga, thanks for the input.
[10:29] <Ryan1980> i'll update the documentation with an how to for DVB-S and paytv (this is possible the most difficult setup because of all the configuration possibilities.
[10:54] <laga> Ryan1980: that'd be great. thanks.
[10:55] <laga> Ryan1980: if you need to know something about the documentation build process, just ask in #ubuntu-mythtv-dev
[11:44] <Ryan1980> Oke laga, thanks... i'll probably will have to do that.
[11:45] <Ryan1980> .
[11:53] <Ryan___> ?
[11:54] <Ryan___> Ok going ofline, its ehh... what is proper translation... Queensday here, so need to go and party downtown ;)
[11:54] <Ryan___> laterz!
[12:15] <selinuxium> I wonder if myth could work with this... http://www.xcase.co.uk/p/449507/-thermaltake-case-dh-101-vf7001bns-blk-lcd-no-psu-remote-vfd.html
[12:48] <frink_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/30/true_mytilenians/
[12:48] <frink_> lol
[15:32] <TelnetManta> any news in the MythBUntu world?
[15:32] <TelnetManta> thinking abt giving it another go soon.
[15:34] <TelnetManta> WHY oh WHY is the download of the ISO so slooooow!
[15:34] <TelnetManta> are there no mirrors?
[15:35] <TelnetManta> I need to download form GA Tech mirror if possible
[15:45] <tgm4883_laptop> TelnetManta, there is no GA Tech mirror
[15:47] <pdragon> can't do a torrent?
[15:47] <pdragon> they're super fast
[15:51] <pdragon> damn... i've uploaded 8.04 desktop 27 times since last thurs o.O
[15:51] <tgm4883_laptop> whats you ratio?
[15:51] <pdragon> seeding the torrent from my little home connection
[15:51] <pdragon> 27.869
[15:51] <tgm4883_laptop> ha!  Mine is Infinity!
[15:51] <tgm4883_laptop> muhahahahahahahahahaha
[15:51] <pdragon> mythbuntu has 5.815 ratio :)
[15:52] <tgm4883_laptop> only because I didn't d/l the torrent, i just uploaded it
[15:52] <pdragon> hehe
[16:06] <TelnetManta> tgm4883_laptop: I found the gatech mirror
[16:07] <TelnetManta> tgm4883_laptop: http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/
[16:17] <tgm4883_laptop> TelnetManta, I thought you wanted a mythbuntu mirror?
[16:32] <TelnetManta> it is
[16:35] <TelnetManta> They have a link to mythbuntu on that page
[16:35] <TelnetManta> made me very happy :)
[16:35] <TelnetManta> only bad thing is Im still only getting 140k download yet I have a 20MB internet connection. Must be busy or throttled now.
[17:23] <Solarbaby> this 4/20 version of xbmc seems to give me lots of scraping problems
[17:26] <chairman> does anyone else have problem with x11vnc and mythbuntu? I have a backend server(without frontend) that I want to run vnc on. I have enabled it in the control panel but it doesn't start....
[17:41] <Spanky521> good morning.  i was wondering if anyone had any expreience with mythtv and the logitech harmony 670
[18:14] <TelnetManta> Spanky521: I have a 688
[18:15] <TelnetManta> Can anyone point me to some general instructions for obtaining mythbuntu source so that I can apply a few patches to it?
[18:38] <cosmic> hi @ all
[18:39] <cosmic> Sometimes my Mythfrontend crasches and it stucks .... i just see the last picture in LiveTV and i have no Control anymore , here is what dmesg says : http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/208919/
[18:40] <cosmic> What is this for a crash ? is it cause of the video driver ? thx for help and excause my english
[18:40] <Spanky521> TelnetManta: How did you go about setting it up?
[18:41] <laga> cosmic: general protection faults shouldn't happenn
[18:43] <laga> cosmic: i can't be of much help there.. maybe try testing your RAM, make sure your CPU/GPU doesn't overheat.. here's a wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_protection_fault
[18:43] <jduggan> cosmic: can you ssh/ping it from another machine?
[18:43] <TelnetManta> I found a harmony lirc.conf file out on the net and used it to get me started
[18:46] <cosmic> thx guy's , root partition is full ! , damn !!!
[18:47] <cosmic> i am such an idiot
[18:47] <Spanky521> Telnet: Ok, but what did you tell the remote you were controlling?
[18:48] <TelnetManta> oh
[18:48] <TelnetManta> lol
[18:48] <TelnetManta> trying to remember
[18:48] <TelnetManta> let me look online at my config
[18:53] <TelnetManta> crap, dont have the url on this computer
[18:53] <TelnetManta> do you have it?
[18:55] <TelnetManta> found it
[18:55] <TelnetManta> hold on, if youre still there...
[19:00] <Spanky521> I'm here....I have the software and website for the remote, i just don't know what to tell the remote i am controlling
[19:00] <TelnetManta> HauppaugePVR150
[19:01] <TelnetManta> thats what I set the device up as in the software
[19:01] <Spanky521> thanks, hopefully that gets me going.  What IR receiver are you using?
[19:02] <TelnetManta> I made one
[19:03] <Spanky521> nice, i'm using a homemade one too.
[19:03] <Spanky521> thanks for the information
[19:04] <TelnetManta> I mightbe able to get you the lirc configs too
[19:04] <TelnetManta> just not right this minute, am at work
[19:04] <TelnetManta> but am actually tryingto install mythbuntu on another backend.. :)
[19:09] <Spanky521> it's ok,  i think i should be able to get going with that information.
[19:09] <Spanky521> I assume in th elirc you said you were using the hauppage remote?
[19:09] <TelnetManta> yes
[19:10] <TelnetManta> hauppauge lirc config file
[19:10] <TelnetManta> modified slightly
[19:10] <Spanky521> awesome, that should get me going.  Thanks!
[20:09] <TelnetManta> anyone here?
[20:09] <TelnetManta> small issue with mythbuntu
[20:14] <cosmic> i had to reinstall , all myth* components ... and now i have the problem that i hear sound in LiveTV mode but i just see a picture with green blue and red pixel ?! is there a codec missing ?
[20:14] <cosmic> hi TelnetManta
[20:20] <cosmic> TelnetManta: whitch issue do you have ?
[20:30] <TelnetManta> i figured it out
[20:30] <TelnetManta> had a issue with my mysql login
[20:31] <cosmic> ok
[20:31] <TelnetManta> but
[20:31] <TelnetManta> still wanting to find info on how to extract the source for mythbuntu in order to apply some patches.
[20:31] <laga> what bits do you need? mythtv?
[20:34] <iamlindoro__> you can apt-get source packagename if that's any help
[20:38] <immensewok> Has anyone had any luck getting a channel changing script to work under Hardy? I've got the Motorola DCT700 (Comcast) STB working from the command line (irsend ...) but not from a script. Its making it impossible to record anything.
[20:44] <tgm4883> immensewok, works here on hardy amd64 and a directv box via usb-serial
[20:46] <immensewok> I'm using a pentium 4 3GHz and a CommandIR blaster. I'm also using the same python script I used under Fiesty. Where did you get your script?
[21:04] <tgm4883> immensewok, http://www.pdp8.net/directv/directv.shtml  Version 1.9
[21:07] <iamlindoro__> that's not going to get him very far w/ his Motorola box
[21:07] <immensewok> true but I'll take a look when I get home
[21:09] <immensewok> My issue is, things were working perfectly under Fiesty but the upgrade hosed a ton of stuff. I managed to get everything back except the channel change script (and as I said the blaster works) bit I don't know enough Python to start messing with the script.
[21:09] <tgm4883> iamlindoro_, no it wont
[21:10] <tgm4883> just FYI
[21:10] <tgm4883> mine also doesn't change via IR
[21:10] <tgm4883> so if you dig though that script you might find non IR related stuff that could be confusing
[21:10] <tgm4883> I haven't looked into the script lately
[21:10] <iamlindoro__> immensewok, Multiple options here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Motorola_DCT700_Channel_Change_Script
[21:11] <tgm4883> immensewok, is that a digital cable box?
[21:11] <immensewok> those are the scripts i'm talking about. i should have been clearer
[21:11] <iamlindoro__> Although if neither work a channel change script need only be four or so lines, pretty simple to cook up
[21:11] <iamlindoro__> tgm4883, It's moto's lowest end SD cable box
[21:11] <immensewok> tgm4883, yes its a digital box. the link above has the exact picture
[21:12] <iamlindoro__> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_External_Channel_Changer#head-534df4fca92a8c4e96c29294f41465745dcfeb43
[21:12] <iamlindoro__> It can be as simple as that, and as you say irsend works, no reason that script shouldn't since that's all it uses
[21:12] <tgm4883> immensewok, what link?
[21:12] <immensewok> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_External_Channel_Changer#head-534df4fca92a8c4e96c29294f41465745dcfeb43
[21:12] <immensewok> oops
[21:12] <iamlindoro__> change REMOTE_NAME to be the DCT700's remote name in lircd.conf, change "select" to whatever you call your "OK" or "select" key in lircd.conf, and it should work fine
[21:13] <immensewok> i meant https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Motorola_DCT700_Channel_Change_Script
[21:13] <tgm4883> ah I see it now
[21:13] <tgm4883> I'm guessing no working firewire on that box
[21:13] <immensewok> iamlindoro__ thank you. i'm at work so i can't test anything but you've given me something new to mess with
[21:13] <iamlindoro__> no firewire period, coaxial and composite are the outs
[21:14] <tgm4883> ah
[21:14]  * tgm4883 has to run
[21:15] <tgm4883> immensewok, can you test the script from the command line?
[21:15] <tgm4883> hopefully if you get any errors we can help you with them
[21:16] <immensewok> tgm, that's a good point. i've been running myth and not changing channels but i never bothered to run the script directly and never got any output. seems like that should've been the first thing to try
[21:16] <tgm4883> yea thats what I did
[21:16] <tgm4883> you should just be able to do
[21:17] <tgm4883> ./scriptname channelnum
[21:17] <immensewok> ok, now i want to ditch work and try some stuff. the boss is out of town so its ok, right?
[21:20] <immensewok> thanks tgm 4883 and iamlindoro_, i'm not stuck anymore.
[23:43] <Narcboy> anybody get mythbuntu and dishnetwork, Serial IR to work?
[23:47] <TazgodX> im trying to get the serial IR to work all together
[23:52] <Narcboy> same here.. I have the new mythbuntu 8.04, pvr350, dishnetwork, streamzap remote, and dishnetwork 322 box. with IR cable I bout
[23:53] <Narcboy> bought
[23:53] <Narcboy> I"m clueless how to configure it.. do I just change the lirc.conf file, and restart?
[23:54] <TazgodX> i have mythbuntu 8.04, PVR-350, AT&T U-Verse, hauppage remote, and motorola VIP-1200 box with serial IR blaster i bought
[23:54] <TazgodX> lol
[23:54] <TazgodX> i can't get IR blaster to work
[23:56] <Narcboy> how are you using the haupage remote?? the IR blaster cable it came with to the 350card ?
[23:59] <TazgodX> yeah
[23:59] <TazgodX> tahts an IR receiver
[23:59] <TazgodX> i have a serial IR blaster
[23:59] <TazgodX> thats seperate


[16:13] <mup> Bug #1990172 opened: "20-maas-03-machine-resources" commissioning script improperly reports a Pass when the test fails <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990172>
[16:16] <mup> Bug #1990172 changed: "20-maas-03-machine-resources" commissioning script improperly reports a Pass when the test fails <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990172>
[16:28] <mup> Bug #1990172 opened: "20-maas-03-machine-resources" commissioning script improperly reports a Pass when the test fails <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990172>


[00:25] <mrand> If it isn't in in the preferences pull down menu, you could try command line gnome-volume-control
[02:58] <ekristen> I just upgraded with autobuilds to 0.24 and I am getting this error "error while loading shared libraries: libmythtv-0.23.1.so.0: cannot open shared object file"
[05:02] <hot_wheelz> Hi i have a dvb driver and would like to see if it can be included who can i talk to to about this?...Thx
[17:50] <ComradeHaz`> Hey all. Is NFS mounts defined in fstab not mounting on boot a known issue on network booting frontends?
[18:02] <Gibby> what does your fstab look like?
[18:03] <rhpot1991> ComradeHaz`: not a known issue
[18:03] <Gibby> i have not been able to get nfs to mount at boot on a network boot client yet, even with the _netdev option it still hangs
[18:04] <ComradeHaz`> Well the machine's working fine
[18:04] <ComradeHaz`> It's just I have to run mount -a manually once it's up to get my other mounts working
[18:04] <Gibby> mine works fine too, i just can't mount extra nfs shares at boot for some reason,
[18:04] <ComradeHaz`> Exactly
[18:05] <rhpot1991> perhaps network isn't ready?
[18:05] <Gibby> does your nfs line in fstab have noauto in it?
[18:05] <ComradeHaz`> It says resource unavailable in logs I think
[18:05] <ComradeHaz`> Gibby: no.
[18:05] <Gibby> network not being ready should be taken care of by the _netdev option in the fstab for the nfs line
[18:05] <ComradeHaz`> rhpot1991: that's what it seems luke, but if you think about it, that's mad, because it BOOTS off the network
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> I'm unfamilliar with this _netdev option
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> what's that and where does it go?
[18:06] <rhpot1991> ComradeHaz`: well there is a difference between booting from the network and the OS's network being ready to use
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> Yeah, I suppose rhpot1991
[18:06] <rhpot1991> can you nfs mount by hand once everything is up?
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> Yeah
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> I just run mount -a
[18:06] <ComradeHaz`> and it's all fine
[18:08] <Gibby> goes in the 4th column
[18:08] <Gibby> pastebin your fstab
[18:14] <ComradeHaz`> hmm
[18:14] <ComradeHaz`> Oh, OK
[18:15] <ComradeHaz`> html://haz.red-army.org.uk/fstab
[18:15] <ComradeHaz`> huh
[18:15] <ComradeHaz`> http://haz.red-army.org.uk/fstab
[18:15] <ComradeHaz`> *sigh*
[18:15] <ComradeHaz`> It's been a long week :D
[18:16] <ComradeHaz`> brb, need to make a fire - SWMBO is "freezing"
[18:18] <Gibby> _netdev,defaults
[18:18] <Gibby> try making it look like that
[18:26] <ComradeHaz`> Right
[18:26] <ComradeHaz`> that should keep SWMBO satisfied for another 5 minutes
[18:27] <ComradeHaz`> Right, OK
[18:34] <ComradeHaz`> Gibby: nope
[18:34] <ComradeHaz`> Fail.
[18:34] <ComradeHaz`> sudo tail /var/log/syslog
[18:34] <ComradeHaz`> oh ffs
[18:34] <Gibby> _netdev,defaults,auto
[18:34] <Gibby> maybe that
[18:37] <ComradeHaz`> OK, will try
[18:37] <ComradeHaz`> certainly my crontab is running before the iface is up though
[18:42] <ComradeHaz`> Still no go.
[18:47] <Gibby> wierd
[18:47] <Gibby> has to be a ltsp thing
[18:50] <ComradeHaz`> well, it's more a networking thing
[18:50] <Gibby> i got my new tv yesterday and hopefully UPS is dropping off my new FE from newegg today, so I will have some time to play with getting NFS to mount at boot hopefully
[18:50] <ComradeHaz`> it tries to mount nfs's before it brings up the network
[18:51] <ComradeHaz`> as rhpot1991 says, just because it's booted from the network, doesn't mean it's actually available to the OS yet
[18:51] <ComradeHaz`> anyway
[18:51] <Gibby> hmm _netdev should stop that, it worked on my regular ubuntu boxes, wondering if something is missing in the myth build
[18:52] <ComradeHaz`> SWMBO ionforms me dinner is ready.
[18:52] <Gibby> lol hope it is good
[18:52] <ComradeHaz`> Me too! ;) :P
[18:52] <rhpot1991> its possible you could fix things with upstart depending on networking being ready
[18:53] <Gibby> but the _netdev is supposed to wait for network to be ready
[18:53] <Gibby> how did you build you network boot client? your fstab is different thatn mine
[19:52] <Gibby> did you use ltsp-build-client --mythbuntu?


[12:01] <mjg59> (I have a hand-hacked xorg.conf, so dexconf wouldn't have rewritten it automatically)
[12:01] <mjg59> Though my cursor seems to have gone back to the old-style one
[12:02] <mjg59> Uh. It just started x-session-manager
[12:04] <schweeb> mjg59: you're the lead on laptop stuff, right?
[12:04] <jdub> do a dpkg-reconfigure
[12:04] <mjg59> schweeb: Yeah
[12:04] <mjg59> jdub: On what?
[12:04] <jdub> or switch to the right fonts dirs
[12:04] <jdub> xserver-xorg
[12:04] <mjg59> jdub: I just added the symlink
[12:04] <mjg59> It breaks upgrades at the moment
[12:04] <schweeb> mjg59: heard of anyone with an IBM X41 yet?  just got one like 2 days ago, about to start testing breezy on it
[12:05] <infinity> schweeb : Is that the convertible tablet
[12:05] <infinity> ?
[12:05] <schweeb> no, just the laptop
[12:05] <mjg59> schweeb: Not yet, but as far as I know it's just an X40 with i915
[12:05] <schweeb> k
[12:05] <mjg59> infinity: There's a tablet version, but not all of them are tablets
[12:05] <mjg59> ogra: About?
[12:05] <schweeb> tablet was finally released like the day after I ordered this one
[12:06] <schweeb> my sound doesn't work yet, but I'm assuming that's the same IRQ problem I had with my Dell
[12:06] <ogra> mjg59, yep
[12:06] <mjg59> Uh. On Breezy?
[12:06] <mjg59> There should be no IRQ issues
[12:06] <schweeb> no, hoary at the moment
[12:06] <mjg59> Is snd_intel8x0 getting loaded?
[12:06] <schweeb> yep
[12:06] <mjg59> ogra: We need to tidy up the power preferences
[12:06] <mjg59> schweeb: 2.6.10?
[12:07] <schweeb> yep, latest ubuntu kernel pkg
[12:07] <ogra> mjg59, lets wait til next week,  havent seen the new preferences window yet
[12:07] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, no problem
[12:07] <mjg59> ogra: Oh, can you get it added to the default session?
[12:07] <mjg59> (Check if it's installed, and if so run it)
[12:07] <schweeb> mjg59: on the Dell, the parport and intel8x0 were trying to unsuccessfully use the same IRQ... I always had to blacklist the parport
[12:07] <mjg59> schweeb: That shouldn't have happened post warty
[12:08] <ogra> i think it should work like update-manager, say the user has to run it once...
[12:08] <mjg59> Hmph
[12:08] <schweeb> hrm
[12:08] <mjg59> ogra: Hmm. I'm inclined to think it should always be running (much like the networkmanager back end)
[12:08] <mjg59> Otherwise people won't get low battery notifications by default
[12:09] <schweeb> /proc/interrupts doesn't show that the parport or the snd driver even have an interrupt...
[12:09] <mjg59> schweeb: Check dmesg for signs that the sound driver actually bound to the device at all
[12:09] <mjg59> schweeb: The other possibility is that we're missing PCI IDs
[12:10] <schweeb> yea, this does have some odd hardware for a laptop
[12:10] <schweeb> SATA, PCI Express
[12:10] <ogra> mjg59, i'll try to get the backend started by default...
[12:10] <schweeb> haven't tried bluetooth yet either
[12:10] <mjg59> ogra: Cool
[12:10] <mjg59> schweeb: Oh, it's SATA? Right, you're not going to get suspend/resume
[12:10] <schweeb> but my wifi works great, that's all that matters at this exact moment :p
[12:10] <ogra> mjg59, but network manager's backend is a system service
[12:10] <schweeb> mjg59: oh, boo
[12:11] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah, but that doesn't matter to the user :)
[12:11] <ogra> mjg59, nope, but for the implementation ;)
[12:11] <mjg59> thom: networkmanager hasn't crashed on me yet!
[12:11] <schweeb> mjg59: that makes me weep, wish I would have known that one (hell, I didn't know it was SATA until I installed ubuntu)
[12:12] <jdub> sata lappy? nice! (mostly)
[12:12] <schweeb> so, that's a SATA wide issue?
[12:13] <HWolf> jdub, sata isn't useful, really. :P
[12:13] <HWolf> Only thing its good for is reducing cable clutter.
[12:13] <jdub> i don't care about useful
[12:13] <jdub> i care about SPEED
[12:13] <schweeb> HWolf: especially considering this has a 1.8" 4200 RPM drive :(
[12:14] <schweeb> but it's so damn light
[12:14] <jdub> and his server with no lid on it.
[12:14] <schweeb> lol
[12:14] <jdub> both of which his laptop outperforms. :|
[12:14] <HWolf> ide wouldn't limit even a decent desktop drive, let alone a laptop drive
[12:15] <schweeb> mjg59: I could get you lspci output if you'd like, just so you guys can get PCI IDs
[12:15] <HWolf> it'll show no increase in speed whatsoever, even in a synthetic benchmark.
[12:15] <schweeb> I already submitted to hwdb
[12:15] <infinity> The specs claimes ATA133, but the specs often lie.
[12:15] <infinity> Guess we'll see when it gets here.
[12:15] <HWolf> But now I'm off, before I get kicked out for being OT, or I drop my sleepy head on my keyboard. :)
[12:16] <mjg59> schweeb: Yeah, that'd be good
[12:16] <schweeb> any specific options? -v, or anything further than that?
[12:16] <mjg59> schweeb: SATA support for suspend/resume ought to appear in Breezy soon
[12:16] <mjg59> lspci -n
[12:17] <schweeb> email or pm?
[12:17] <jdub> anyone here have sip love?
[12:18] <jdub> i'm bored of calling echo tests and random red hat pstn numbers
[12:18] <schweeb> jdub: whiprush would probably be more than happy to be a test subject
[12:18] <ogra> jdub, call anthony
[12:19] <jdub> ogra: it's 8am on sunday morning
[12:19] <jdub> ogra: i don't believe he's seen one of those since he got up to watch church on tv in his younger days
[12:19] <ogra> hehe, great, the right time.... he will love you :)
[12:19] <schweeb> jdub: go to sleep then!
[12:19] <jdub> i just got up!
[12:19] <schweeb> why
[12:20] <jdub> i'm now on EXTREME .au time
[12:20] <jdub> which means early to bed, early to rise
[12:20] <schweeb> you have like 6 more hours of sleep ahead ofy ou
[12:22] <schweeb> mjg59: what's your email, or should I email them to ubuntu-devel list
[12:24] <mjg59> schweeb<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:26] <schweeb> sent
[12:38] <thom> mjg59: heh, cool
[12:40] <Burgundavia> thom, have you heard any reports of network manager writing "nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>" to a /etc/resolv.conf ?
[12:40] <thom> Burgundavia: uh, that's what it's supposed to do?
[12:40] <thom> so, yes, i've heard that it does that :P
[12:40] <Burgundavia> thom, it also broke networking on my machine, when rebooted into recovery mode
[12:42] <thom> how?
[12:42] <Burgundavia> the machine cannot contact the outsite world
[12:42] <Burgundavia> through DNS that it
[12:42] <Burgundavia> s/it/is
[12:42] <jdub> thom: no name resolution...
[12:42] <jdub> no bind
[12:43] <thom> ok, so that's _not_ breaking networking
[12:43] <thom> please don't confuse the two
[12:43] <Burgundavia> seems that something else is looking for /etc/resolv.conf to be a simlink
[12:43] <thom> jdub: nod, working on it
[12:43] <Burgundavia> symlink even
[12:43] <thom> Burgundavia: resolvconf, yes
[12:43] <ogra> thom, for me dhcp doesnt work
[12:43] <jdub> thom: so will /e/n/interfaces basically become irrelevant?
[12:44] <thom> jdub: well, no
[12:44] <thom> jdub: NM reads it and uses it in the case of static config
[12:44] <jdub> ahr
[12:44] <thom> long term we'll do more integration
[12:45] <thom> ogra: doesn't work is a big and unhelpful phrase. does it work normally? is this on your wifi card? does the rest of the networking stuff get set up correctly?
[12:45] <ogra> its a orinoco silver pcmcia card, if i ifdown/up the interface, it works normally...
[12:45] <jdub> thom: have you looked at the zeroconf package?
[12:46] <thom> what i need to do is figure out how to make resolvconf and NM play in such a way as to not break in the case where NM isn't running
[12:46] <thom> jdub: NM does zeroconf
[12:46] <thom> or it should
[12:46] <jdub> oh, ok
[12:46] <thom> ogra: is this the one that hal doesn't know is a wifi card?
[12:46] <ogra> yeps
[12:46] <thom> you're doomed then; kernel bug
[12:46] <ogra> argh
[12:47] <mjg59> Well, lack of kernel functionality
[12:47] <thom> (it needs to export the correct info in sysfs)
[12:47] <thom> mjg59: well, old driver, yeah
[12:47] <mjg59> thom: The main problem is that pcmcia cards don't seem to play nicely with the sysfs stuff
[12:47] <mjg59> cardbus is fine
[12:47] <jdub> thom: what do you get out of using resolvconf?
[12:47] <thom> oh, just old school pcmcia
[12:48] <thom> jdub: i'm hoping that i can get it to the point of being able to get NM to use resolvconf to generate a resolv.conf, so if NM isn't running you still get a reasonable resolv.conf
[12:49] <Goshawk> hi
[12:49] <jdub> thom: the server case, basically?
[12:50] <Burgundavia> and the recovery mode
[12:50] <Burgundavia> that is where nm bit me
[12:50] <jdub> Burgundavia: that's avoidable in other ways (ie. don't even try)
[12:51] <thom> jdub: server case isn't really interesting, you won't ever have NM installed
[12:51] <jdub> thom: have you drawn little workflow diagrams of this?
[12:51] <thom> jdub: but being able to play nice with the system is definitely a feature
[12:51] <thom> jdub: no
[12:51] <thom> not yet, anyway
[12:51] <jdub> my brain is scrawling little workflows on the inside of my skull
[12:52] <Goshawk> this may be a gnome bug: afther you have created a parent folder and many child folders, with files inside, and folders without any file, and click the right mouse button on the parent folder and choose "Create Archive" in format tar.gz, the archive is created but all the empty folders are missed... should it be a bug? should i report it to reportbug?
[12:52] <jdub> Goshawk: bugzilla.gnome.org is probably a better place (and yeah, sounds like a good bug to me)
[12:53] <Goshawk> jdub, thanks :D
[12:53] <thom> my ears are ringing too loud from U2 for my brain to work right now ;-)
[12:53] <jdub> thom: so in the n-m exists case, what happens when you invoke ifup or ifdown?
[12:53] <thom> jdub: at the moment, shitfight central
[12:53] <jdub> awesome
[12:54] <jdub> do you want to make it so they send appropriate d-bus messages to n-m, and ignore everything else?
[12:55] <jdub> hmm
[12:55] <thom> jdub: i'm unsure as yet. Thomas Hood is interested in working on this too, need to talk to him at somepoint again
[12:55] <tseng> thom: man i love the moment after n-m realizes it doesnt have total control over a network device
[12:55] <jdub> jtdhood?
[12:55] <thom> jdub: yeah
[12:55] <jdub> cool
[12:56] <thom> tseng: heh
[12:56] <jdub> man, this is hard stuff
[12:56] <thom> tseng: i thought "shitfight" covered it quite accurately :-)
[12:56] <tseng> yes
[12:56] <tseng> i wonder if i put nm-applet in my session if ill get properly associated at login
[12:56] <tseng> (brb)
[12:56] <eazel7> hi ppl
[12:57] <jdub> thom: what if n-m became a type of /e/n/i configurations?
[12:57] <jdub> so you had managed interfaces and unmanaged interfaces
[12:58] <thom> jdub: hrrrrm
[12:58] <jdub> then ifup on a managed interface would tell n-m to do its thing (via dbus, i imagine)
[12:58] <jdub> ifup on an unmanaged interface would just do the right thing
[12:58] <jdub> as per configuration
[12:58] <jdub> and n-m would *never* try to manipulate an unmanaged interface
[12:58] <jdub> like, it would completely ignore them
[12:58] <jdub> hrm
[12:58] <jdub> though you'd want n-m to own anything that wasn't specified
[12:59] <thom> yeah
[12:59] <tseng> jdub: would if* work properly in the absense of nm?
[12:59] <thom> i wonder if you could use a hotplug mapping script to do that
[12:59] <jdub> tseng: you mean, would a managed interface work in the absence of nm?
[12:59] <tseng> jdub: sure
[12:59] <jdub> hmm
[01:00] <thom> there's no reason for it not to, is there?
[01:00] <jdub> thom: what would it do?
[01:00] <jdub> it's like
[01:00] <tseng> if you told people they need dbus and nm on a server, then you would find out what shitfit central is
[01:00] <jdub> ifup eth3 when you don't have an eth3 definition in interfaces
[01:00] <thom> tseng: yes
[01:00] <jdub> tseng: well, in that case, you just have all unmanaged interfaces as per normal
[01:00] <tseng> hm right
[01:00] <jdub> what i'm thinking of is this (which thom groks, i think):
[01:00] <tseng> i see how you mean
[01:01] <jdub> iface eth1 inet managed
[01:01] <jdub> ^ in /etc/network/interfaces
[01:01] <tseng> oh
[01:01] <thom> jdub: not really; the interface is defined, all you're really doing is notifying NM that you want it to be available; there's no reason that you couldn't also have fallback config i think
[01:01] <jdub> heh, you could even set mandatory (unchangeable) settings in the stanza :)
[01:01] <thom> that too
[01:02] <jdub> thom: so if i did ifup eth1 when nm wasn't running, what do you see happening? (when the only configuration is that one line)
[01:02] <thom> jdub: more like: "iface eth1 inet dhcp \n mode managed"; don't forget that NM can use static configs because it can do the ifplugd case of bringing an iface up when the it gets a connection
[01:03] <jdub> but then you've got a mandatory setting of dhcp, right? :)
[01:04] <jdub> hrm
[01:04] <thom> yes, and that's fine
[01:04] <jdub> what if you have a managed interface without a dhcp or static mandatory setting?
[01:04] <thom> in the scheme i just proposed, you can't
[01:05] <jdub> however, in the scheme i proposed, you couldn't have a mandatory setting for that at all
[01:05] <jdub> unless you had another stanza item
[01:05] <thom> i can't see how you'd usefully use that, unless it just zeroconfs the iface
[01:05] <thom> NM still has to know how it should bring the iface up
[01:06] <jdub> it works that out itself, doesn't it?
[01:06] <thom> no? it defaults to dhcp but parses /e/n/i for any clues
[01:06] <jdub> that static/dhcp bit is 'how to do it' and nm is a 'how to do it'
[01:07] <thom> no; think of /e/n/i as a policy statement, NM just implements that policy
[01:07] <jdub> so static configurations are not stored by NM?
[01:07] <thom> not afaik
[01:07] <thom> could be wrong though
[01:08] <jdub> aha, so
[01:08] <jdub> then you could use the same thing
[01:08] <jdub> iface eth1 inet managed
[01:08] <jdub> and all of the fields are optional
[01:08] <jdub> *if* you set address, it doesn't dhcp
[01:09] <jdub> if you set any of the others, they're overrides or something
[01:09] <jdub> does NM interpret maps in interfaces?
[01:09] <thom> hrm, see what you mean
[01:10] <mjg59> jdub: Unless you manually override in the interface at some point
[01:10] <jdub> mjg59: hrm?
[01:11] <mjg59> jdub: I ought to be able to override anything in /e/n/i through the UI at runtime
[01:11] <jdub> mjg59: yeah, though we were just talking about mandatory settings too
[01:11] <jdub> mjg59: perhaps there should just be another field 'mandatory yes' or something to do that
[01:12] <mjg59> Yes, it needs some amount of lock-down support
[01:12] <jdub> but you're right, that should be optional
[01:13] <jdub> does NM start really early?
[01:13] <tseng> it starts with dbus
[01:13] <jdub> oh yeah
[01:14] <thom> 20 in rc2
[01:14] <thom> not, actually, early enough
[01:14] <jdub> mmm
[01:14] <thom> i think we should get dbus up ASAP
[01:14] <thom> like, in the initrd or so... ;-)
[01:15] <jdub> pondering if ifup eth1 would invoke NM if it wasn't running, or just talk to it (and NM would kick all the managed interfaces off when it starts)
[01:15] <jdub> haha
[01:17] <jdub> thom: in en_GB, 'tomboy' should be 'thomboy' ;-)
[01:18] <thom> piss off :-)
[01:18] <thom> jdub: it's not like it's a usual spelling here, either
[01:19] <tseng> jdub: beat him senseless until he replaces the shithouse icons
[01:19] <tseng> jdub: i mentioned i replaced it and he started cursing
[01:21] <jbailey> thom: Eh?
[01:21] <thom> jbailey: initrd is a highlight these days too?
[01:22] <jbailey> thom: If you're serious, please look at the initramfs hooks.  There won't be glibc in there, so I'll need to be able to compile it with klibc or uclibc.
[01:22] <jbailey> thom: Yeah. =)
[01:22] <thom> jbailey: no, i'm not serious. but it does need to be early
[01:22] <thom> (i'm not sure it'd build with klibc, anyway)
[01:22] <jbailey> thom: Oh good. =)  I was growing this deep fear that perhaps usplash might need it for something.
[01:23] <thom> heh
[01:23] <thom> usplash is not me, but it might well
[01:23] <jdub> tseng: seriously? i thought they changed upstream too?
[01:23] <tseng> jdub: no way
[01:23] <thom> we could have udbus ;-)
[01:23] <sladen> the stuff I did to date is just statically built and striped.  comes to < 30kB
[01:24] <tseng> jdub: its still the dumbass comic guy from 1940
[01:24] <mjg59> sladen: So, when are we getting more of it?
[01:24] <jdub> don't call tin tin a dumbass
[01:24] <jbailey> sladen: Sounds lovely.  Did you get a chance to look at the intiramfs hooks?
[01:24] <jdub> you'll offend seb
[01:24] <tseng> ha ha
[01:24] <thom> jdub: we should send orph a profile shot of seb
[01:24] <tseng> YES
[01:24] <jbailey> sladen: 0.11 is quite well baked for raid1, hd boot and nfsroot.
[01:24] <thom> it'd be *so* cool
[01:24] <sladen> mjg59: ah, yes.  urm.
[01:24] <jdub> thom: a seb hackergotchi, which i don't have...
[01:24] <tseng> that should be april fools next year
[01:24] <tseng> tomboy -> seb
[01:25] <thom> the ubuntu hackergotchi icon set?
[01:25] <jbailey> sladen: You should be able to install initramfs-tools, add one line to your kernel-img.conf: "ramdisk = /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs" and reinstall your kernel and have it Just Work(tm)
[01:25] <thom> that'd be terrifying!
[01:25] <tseng> thom: yes!
[01:25] <sladen> replace tseng with a Tub of Lard
[01:25] <jbailey> Phear the April 1 Ubuntugotchi set.
[01:25] <tseng> (are you calling me fat?)
[01:26] <jdub> jbailey: now?
[01:26] <jdub> The following extra packages will be installed:
[01:26] <jdub>   busybox-cvs-initramfs klibc-utils libklibc
[01:26] <jdub> ouch ;)
[01:26] <jbailey> jdub: No, April 1 was a little while ago.
[01:26] <sladen> tseng: it's the clasic thing that Have I Got News FFor You do when one of their guests does a no-show
[01:26] <jdub> jbailey: initramfs, silly :)
[01:26] <jbailey> Oh, I see. =)
[01:26] <jdub> Need to get 518kB of archives.
[01:26] <jdub> After unpacking 1372kB of additional disk space will be used.
[01:26] <tseng> sladen: ah.
[01:26] <jdub> boh ;)
[01:27] <jbailey> Yes.  mdz is using it already and I'm booting one of my systems on it all the time.
[01:27] <jbailey> jdub: Doesn't do lvm or evms.
[01:27] <jbailey> Tested on i386 and ppc64
[01:27] <jdub> nice
[01:27] <jbailey> Don't mind the 9mb initrd, that will get smaller. =)
[01:28] <jbailey> Right now you have a pile of static binaries, glibc, klibc and about 30 megs of drivers packed into there. =)
[01:28] <jdub> ouch
[01:28] <jdub> is there a nice initramfs boot process doc around?
[01:28] <jbailey> I think that needs to be about 6 megs worth of drivers, and about half a meg worth of code.
[01:28] <jbailey> jdub: You're talking kernel side or my package?
[01:29] <jdub> both
[01:29] <sladen> 30MB initrd?!
[01:29] <jbailey> sladen: Nonono, 9mb, but that's compressed.
[01:29] <jbailey> Much need for shrinkage.
[01:29] <jbailey> My smallest test case was 250k
[01:29] <tseng> sladen: dude you need the whole kernel source tree in there for good luck
[01:29] <jbailey> And that could still be reduced further.
[01:29] <jbailey> jdub: No, for my package, but I can give you the door through it in about 2 minutes.
[01:30] <jbailey> I've been waiting for usplash to write docs, since I think that's the next thing that will probably cause the design to stretch a little.
[01:30] <sladen> jbailey: you should add support for sticking GCC + binutils in there so that you can compile the driver on the fly.  the Gentoo converts would *love* that
[01:31] <jbailey> jdub: http://lwn.net/Articles/14776/ is a reasonable place to start.
[01:31] <jbailey> sladen: If you have the backing store, honestly nothing stops it.
[01:31] <jbailey> sladen: And the assembly model that we're working towards would make it pretty trivial to do, sadly.
[01:32] <jbailey> sladen: It's worth noting that the initramfs includes *all* of the hardware autodetection.  You can take this initramfs and copy it to another machine and expect it to Just Work.
[01:32] <jdub> yeah, reading it already ;)
[01:32] <jdub> first google hit
[01:33] <jdub> i've read it before but i never remember why it rocks
[01:34] <jbailey> jdub: Less crap in kernel, basically.
[01:34] <jbailey> jdub: There's a bunch of things that otherwise have to stay resident, like dhcp code or raid detection code that can be jettisoned.
[01:34] <jdub> jbailey: so in future, you imagine that the basic initramfs image will be built into the kernel, so not requiring much at all to be built on kernel install?
[01:34] <jbailey> Having that in userspace also means that if there's a bug, it's not risking taking out the whole box.
[01:35] <jdub> ie. i won't have to install klibc or busy box on my machine? :)
[01:35] <jbailey> Hopefully, yes.
[01:35] <jdub> nice!
[01:35] <jbailey> klibc is intended to go into the kernel source tree.
[01:35] <jdub> so modules will be stacked on top and so on
[01:35] <jbailey> I wound up adding busybox when doing the raid1 stuff.
[01:36] <jbailey> Right, your bootloader will be able to take various cpio images and mash them together.
[01:36] <jbailey> So whatever pieces you need can be made available.
[01:36] <jbailey> If you're not network booting, there's no reason to include the network drivers.
[01:36] <jbailey> So I can imagine: scsi-2.6.12-1-powerpc64 ide-2.6.12-1-powerpc64 net-2.6.12-1-powerpc64 etc..
[01:36] <jbailey> Your bootloader would just put the interesting ones together.
[01:37] <jbailey> Plus a "base" initramfs of some sort that's all nice and pre-assembled.
[01:37] <jdub> and we can do dsdt stuff more sanely :)
[01:37] <jbailey> Hopefully.  I haven't finished the DSDT bits yet.
[01:38] <jbailey> I know with the initrd it's just mashed onto the end with a magic number.  I'm guessing it's the same in this case.
[01:38] <jbailey> So again, adding it becomes a matter of bootloader configuration, or having the helper program assemble them together at kernel install time.
[01:39] <jdub> reboot time ;)
[01:39] <jbailey> Rather than building based on what it thinks you might need.
[01:39] <jbailey> Enjoy, and good luck. =)
[01:39] <jdub> will be rad for thin client foo
[01:40] <jdub> haha
[01:41] <jdub> oooookay
[01:41] <jbailey> Is that a good laugh or a bad one?
[01:41] <jdub> fatal error inserting ipw2200, unknown symbol in module
[01:41] <sladen> jbailey: so what exactly does 'cpio --dereference' do if it doesn't do what it says on the tin?
[01:41] <jbailey> Oh that's ad.
[01:41] <jdub> no such file /conf/modules
[01:41] <jbailey> sad.
[01:41] <jdub> no such file /proc/mdstat
[01:41] <jdub> hda1 doesn't exist
[01:42] <jdub> dropping to shell
[01:42] <jbailey> Oh shit.  IDE case.
[01:42] <jdub> sh can't access tty; job control turned off
[01:42] <jbailey> You probably want to modprobe ide-generic.  I haven't tested on a pure IDE system yet.
[01:42] <jbailey> Forgot about ide-generic madness.
[01:42] <jdub> oh, what've you been using?
[01:42] <jbailey> SATA
[01:43] <sladen> jbailey: and could that hardcoded stuff be done in a more generic way with 'find'?
[01:43] <jdub> ok, ide-generic loaded
[01:43] <jbailey> sladen: Which hardcoded stuff?
[01:43] <jbailey> jdub: rerun udevstart to create the device files.
[01:43] <jbailey> sladen: I donj't have find available in the initramfs right now.  I'm trying to reduce the bits that I need so I can get rid of busybox.
[01:44] <jdub> jbailey: i ran udevstart, still no hda*
[01:44] <sladen> jbailey: all the 'lkn -s's in mkinitramfs
[01:45] <jbailey> jdub: modprobe ide-disk ?
[01:46] <jbailey> jdub: I'll cook up the ide bus walking stuff and put it in.  I keep forgetting that ide is a bit weird.
[01:46] <jdub> jbailey: ended up doing ide-core + ide-disk and it was fine
[01:46] <jbailey> sladen: No, those are likely to be more specific.
[01:46] <jbailey> sladen: I want to include an absolute minimum of stuff in there.  Right now I'm already pulling in crap like gzip.
[01:47] <jbailey> The reason I'm doing ln -s's is to avoid copying it, then making another copy with cpio.  ln -s is nice and quick.
[01:47] <jdub> jbailey: next step? :)
[01:48] <jbailey> modprobe ext3
[01:48] <jbailey> Or for amusement, you can type fstype < /dev/hdaN
[01:48] <jbailey> (replace N)
[01:49] <jbailey> And then modprobe whatever FSTYPE comes out as.
[01:49] <jdub> nice :)
[01:49] <jbailey> mount -r -t ${FSTYPE} ${ROOT} /root
[01:49] <jbailey> umount /sys
[01:50] <jbailey> umount /proc
[01:50] <jbailey> exec run-init /root /sbin/init
[01:50] <jbailey> ---
[01:50] <jbailey> And that should chain to your working system.
[01:50] <jbailey> jdub: If you feel brave enough to try again, add ide-disk and ide-generic to /etc/initramfs/modules
[01:50] <jbailey> Rebuild and try again.
[01:51] <jdub> blammo!
[01:51] <jdub> good blammo
[01:51] <jdub> :)
[01:51] <jdub> ok
[01:51] <jbailey> I think ide-core should get pulled in them as a sideeffect.
[01:52] <jdub> oh MAAAN
[01:52] <jdub> my keyboard isn't working again
[01:53] <D1> anyone run a laptop that has a smart battery and was able to get it to work in ubuntu?
[01:53] <jdub> jbailey: unrelated
[01:53] <jbailey> Oh good. =)
[01:53] <jbailey> If you have a USB keyboard, this initramfs detects that too.
[01:53] <jdub> nice
[01:53] <jbailey> So if you have to fallback to the shell, it's useful.
[01:54] <jdub> soon, you should make it detect when X IS BROKEN
[01:54] <jbailey> And do what...  emerge you a new X? =)
[01:54] <jdub> haha
[01:57] <sladen> D1: not yet, lack of driver support/specs.  pester mjg59 for more details
[01:58] <sladen> shnake in initramfs.  r.
[01:59] <jbailey> sladen: EPARSE
[02:03] <jdub> jbailey: boots fine after a rebuild :)
[02:04] <jdub> but my X still isn't working
[02:04] <jbailey> jdub: Sweet.  The next upload will handle the IDE case correctly.
[02:05] <jdub> noice :)
[02:05] <jdub> what's the timeline for making this the default?
[02:05] <jbailey> No later than 2.6.13 =)
[02:05] <jdub> ha ha
[02:05] <jbailey> That release will drop devfs support which the current initrd needs. =)
[02:06] <jdub> are we doing .13 for breezy?!
[02:06] <jdub> EEEK!
[02:06] <jdub> die devfs! die!
[02:06] <jbailey> Dunno if we're doing .13 for breezy or not.
[02:07] <jbailey> .12 is finally out.  I don't know what's coming up next beyond the devfs bits.
[02:07] <jdub> how hard will it be to remove the devfs assumption/dependency?
[02:08] <jbailey> Depends on the approach taken.  We could put static device nodes in there, which seems wrong.
[02:08] <jbailey> We could put udev in, which is the work that I've aready done.
[02:09] <thom> ogra: http://www.livejournal.com/users/kernelslacker/19564.html
[02:09] <jbailey> Mostly I think the mkinitrd code is so bloody ugly, and we have far more elegant ways of doing things now.
[02:10] <jbailey> Literally the hardware detection code is:
[02:10] <jbailey>         for x in /sys/bus/pci/devices/*; do;                if [ -e ${x}/modalias ] ; then;                        modprobe -q $(cat ${x}/modalias);                fi;        done
[02:10] <jbailey> Repeat for usb.
[02:10] <jbailey> Add a few lines after this to cope with ide
[02:13] <jbailey> I could hardcode all of the lvm and evms stuff the way the current initrd does, but I'm hoping that we can just be more flexible than that.
[02:35] <jdub> jbailey: tasty!
[02:36] <jbailey> Anyone know anything about kmod?
[02:36] <jbailey> =)
[02:38] <LinuxJones> can someone pop into #ubuntu and kick the spammers please
[02:39] <LinuxJones> please !!!
[03:14] <jdub> whiprush: ping
[03:56] <whiprush> jdub: pong
[04:21] <tseng> jdub: dude do you still have that random laptop crasher on battery
[04:24] <tseng> jdub: im thinking laptop-mode, i turned it off for now
[04:24] <jdub> oh
[04:25] <jdub> um
[04:25] <jdub> i haven't seen that for a bit
[04:25] <jdub> but that's mostly because i haven't been using my laptop very much (directly)
[04:25] <tseng> you only get it on battery power?
[04:25] <tseng> or cant say
[04:25] <jdub> no only on battery
[04:26] <tseng> exactly, laptop-mode is all i can think of
[04:26] <tseng> since i ran badblocks
[04:26] <tseng> and got nothing
[05:46] <whiprush> jdub: you rang?
[06:10] <jdub> whiprush: yo
[06:11] <jdub> whiprush: what's your sip url?
[06:11] <whiprush> don't have it set up yet, I could never connect to anything.
[06:11] <jdub> oh
[06:12] <whiprush> jammcq uses sip though
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:18] <bob2> *cough*fridge*cough*
[06:34] <mpt> The fridge has a cold? :-)
[08:18] <mdz> wow, network-manager produced a 3 gigabyte syslog file. impressive.
[08:19] <fabbione> mdz: ROTFL
[08:20] <mdz> Jun 18 03:10:17 localhost NetworkManager: <information>^IActivation (eth0) failure scheduled...
[08:20] <mdz> Jun 18 03:10:17 localhost NetworkManager: <information>^IActivation (eth0) Stage 3 (IP Configure Start) complete.
[08:20] <mdz> Jun 18 03:10:17 localhost NetworkManager: <information>^IActivation (eth0) failed.
[08:20] <mdz> that sort of thing, repeated a few hundred times per second
[08:21] <fabbione> neat :)
[09:22] <ompaul> possible bug in thunderbird, try to look at the full message headers and you can't (a) see them all  because (B) you can't scroll up and down in the window :)
[09:24] <robitaille> ompaul,  I have the same problem here.  And can't find it in the bugzilla.   You should fill a new bug report about this.
[09:25] <ompaul> robitaille, now having someone else confirm this I will
[09:25] <fabbione> ompaul: yes.. i have the same problem here
[09:26] <ompaul> it will be in bugzilla soon
[09:34] <ompaul> its done
[09:35] <robitaille> ompaul,  url?
[09:37] <ompaul> robitaille,  https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/distros/ubuntu my name is Paul O'Malley last two  :-)
[09:44] <cartman> X.org no longer compiled with -fPIC on amd64?
[09:44] <cartman> I got lots of linking errors due to that now
[10:58] <hughsie> Anyone know if the gnome-power debs have been built?
[11:03] <pitti> Good morning
[11:03] <hughsie> Morning.
[11:05] <hughsie> I got an email yesterday from someone in ubuntu telling me that debs were being built
[11:07] <daniels> jdub: pong
[11:07] <daniels> mdz: ... which changes?
[11:08] <daniels> Keybuk: sounds like your entire symlink farm is somehow complteely maggotted
[11:08] <daniels> Kamion: pong
[11:08] <daniels> mdz: will check out the xserver-xorg thing a little later
[11:10] <Keybuk> daniels: they're your packages
[11:11] <Keybuk> c'est ne pas un dpkg bug
[11:12] <daniels> Keybuk: iz gtk bug
[11:12] <daniels> Keybuk: the upgrade path is still a little rocky, because I haven't got to fully testing a hoary -> breezy upgrade yet
[11:17] <cartman> daniels: X.org on amd64 seems no longer compiled with -fPIC ?
[11:17] <cartman> I got relocation errors while linking to some X libs
[11:19] <daniels> cartman: ... which libs?
[11:20] <cartman> one sec
[11:20] <cartman> usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.a
[11:20] <cartman> for example
[11:20] <cartman> gcc tells me to recompile with -fPIC rolling back to -24 works fine
[11:22] <torkel> hughsie: gnome-power                 0.0.3+20050605cvs-0ubuntu1
[11:22] <hughsie> torkel: how often will the new cvs stuff come through?
[11:22] <daniels> cartman: oh, right -- that's a change from modular to monolithic
[11:23] <daniels> cartman: iirc you only need -fPIC when linking static to shared, though
[11:23] <daniels> and libXext has been available in shared form also for around a bajillion years
[11:23] <cartman> daniels: and KDE does that, don't ask me why or how
[11:23] <cartman> maybe I need to reconfigure hmmm
[11:23] <cartman> daniels: ok so I will retry cleanly & re-report
[11:23] <sabdfl> hey guys, is there any way to examine files that are hidden by a new mount?
[11:24] <cartman> daniels: also xkb seems to be broken again xorg rules file is missing
[11:24] <sabdfl> say i had files on a filesystem under /tmp/bar/
[11:24] <sabdfl> and i then mount another filesystem at /tmp/bar/
[11:24] <Keybuk> sabdfl: only if you know the inode number
[11:24] <Keybuk> otherwise unmount the other mount
[11:24] <sabdfl> Keybuk: how do i find the inode number?
[11:24] <sabdfl> unmounting could be tricky, it's /var we're talking  about :-)
[11:25] <Keybuk> unmount the other mount, and use stat or ls
[11:25] <Keybuk> heh
[11:25] <Keybuk> and I guess rebooting into single-user is out of the question?
[11:26] <sabdfl> not remotely, no :-)
[11:26] <sabdfl> i tried that and it screwed me nicely
[11:26] <Keybuk> if there anything particular you are looking for?
[11:26] <sabdfl> sudo init 1.... oops
[11:26] <sabdfl> ha! got it, lsof |grep var
[11:27] <sabdfl> killed everything that was reading/writing there
[11:27] <Keybuk> that'll give you the open files
[11:27] <sabdfl> maybe i can unmount now
[11:27] <sabdfl> nup
[11:27] <sabdfl> what else would keep the device busy?
[11:27] <daniels> cartman: xkb is, um, interesting at the moment
[11:27] <sabdfl>  /bin/dd bs 1 if /proc/kmsg of /var/run/klogd/kmsg
[11:27] <Keybuk> sabdfl: kernel log daemon
[11:27] <sabdfl> and what could that be?
[11:28] <cartman> daniels: looks like symlink is missing but I rolled back to -24 for now :/
[11:28] <Keybuk> well, you have direct access to the disk underneath (/dev/hdaX)
[11:28] <Keybuk> so you could grep that for what you were looking for
[11:28] <sabdfl> Keybuk: i need to delete a bunch of those files
[11:28] <Keybuk> any particular reason?  they're not doing much
[11:28] <Keybuk> or are they using space?
[11:29] <Keybuk> sabdfl: you should be able to stop that with /etc/init.d/klogd stop
[11:30] <fabbione> hmmm also sysklogd
[11:30] <sabdfl> errr... jdub, could you cd / please?
[11:36] <doko> $ apt-get source python-defaults
[11:36] <doko> Reading package lists... Done
[11:36] <doko> Building dependency tree... Done
[11:36] <doko> Need to get 207kB of source archives.
[11:36] <doko> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main python-defaults 2.4.1-0ubuntu2 (dsc) [695B]
[11:36] <doko> Get:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main python-defaults 2.4.1-0ubuntu2 (tar) [206kB]
[11:36] <doko> Fetched 207kB in 0s (238kB/s)
[11:36] <doko> dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.tar'
[11:37] <doko> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x python-defaults_2.4.1-0ubuntu2.dsc' failed.
[11:37] <doko> E: Child process failed
[11:37] <doko> Keybuk: ^^^
[11:38] <thom> native packages with debian versions don't work anymore, apparently
[11:38] <thom> and keybuk's quit
[11:39] <daniels> mdz: the Generic Mouse thing being reverted from -21 sounds plausible
[11:39] <daniels> mdz: didn't help that I was offline for about 50 hours
[11:40] <doko> thom: he escaped at the right moment ;)
[11:44] <cartman> re
[11:50] <fabbione> thom: i am trying to bootstrap ghc6... it's a royal pain
[11:53] <thom> fabbione: yeah, it looked like being no fun at all, which is why i'm running darcs in a hoary chroot
[11:58] <fabbione>  /usr/src/wartydevel/misc/ghc6-6.4/ghc/includes/HsFFI.h:112:2: error: #error GHC untested on this architecture: sizeof(void *) != 4 or 8
[11:58] <fabbione> this is on i386 :)
[11:59] <bob2> haha
[12:01] <daniels> haha
[12:01] <daniels> go ghc!
[12:03] <fabbione> i think the only way to bootstrap it properly is a dual build dance
[12:03] <fabbione> the c++ transition isn't helping
[12:03] <fabbione> first port libgmp3 to debian
[12:03] <fabbione> rebuild debian ghc6 with the new libgmp3
[12:04] <fabbione> so that it can be installed in breezy
[12:04] <fabbione> and from there build ghc6 in breezy
[12:04] <fabbione> direct bootstrap seems pretty broken
[12:06] <thom> fabbione: new libgmp3? it's libgmp3c2 now, you realise?
[12:07] <fabbione> thom: that's what i meant
[12:07] <fabbione> ghc6 depends on libgmp3
[12:07] <fabbione> so it cannot be installed in breezy
[12:07] <fabbione> ghc6 b-d on ghc6
[12:07] <fabbione> somewhere you need start breaking the loop
[12:07] <thom> ok, you expressed it badly. i know the chain
[12:07] <fabbione> yes.. it's sunday dude :P
[12:30] <jdub> sabdfl: pong?
[12:30] <sabdfl> hiya
[12:30] <jdub> haha
[12:30] <jdub> now i grok :)
[12:31] <sabdfl> i'm bring up a new var partition, needed to SIGHUP you to unmount the new one while i cleaned up underneath it
[12:31] <jdub> yeah
[12:31] <jdub> rock
[12:31] <sabdfl> just waiting for the IO to finish
[12:31] <jdub> elmo and i will transfer it this week too
[12:33] <HiddenWolf> Guys, stupid question, but does the ubuntu project currently have someone whose job it is to check where ubuntu is going and provide commentary on the user-friendly-ness of the solution rather than the technical side of things?
[12:34] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: we try to do that all the time, but we probably do need a formal structure to provide direction on that front
[12:35] <HiddenWolf> saddfl, please try to do so. I keep running into those little things that are the downside of OS-dom. Interfaces and structures directed at the poweruser, technical solutions to problems in experience or communication, etc.
[12:36] <HiddenWolf> *grumble* typo's
[12:37] <HiddenWolf> Now this is much better in ubuntu than it is in for instance gnome, i'll give you that, but it's hard to think outside of your own patterns and experiences, so the poblem is still there.
[12:38] <daniels> sometimes you don't always realise how broken stuff is
[12:38] <daniels> so as much specific feedback as we can get will always help
[12:39] <HiddenWolf> I realise that for instance you with x are swamped with cases where you just need to make it work. Downside of that is that you might not have time to fix some annoying issue that bugs the hell out of everyone, think lack of support for scrolling with the mouse-wheel.
[12:39] <HiddenWolf> You and I will have set it up so that that'll work fine for us, and forget about it.
[12:39] <daniels> uhm, mouse wheel scrolling should work already :)
[12:40] <HiddenWolf> It didn't for me, last time I installed. :P
[12:40] <daniels> hm, bong.
[12:40] <daniels> it's always worked out of the box for me
[12:40] <daniels> unfortunately because it's so hardware-specific, there's a lot of options you can't enable because it doesn't work on some hardware
[12:41] <HiddenWolf> Now there. That's an issue that's very hard to solve technically, so the best way to do it, imho, is check if it works, and if it doesn't, inform the user, and piont to how he can make it work.
[12:42] <daniels> yeah, I do that as much as possible
[12:42] <daniels> but the failure modes are frequently: a) machine locks up hard, b) indications all perfectly good as far as we can tell, but complete failure to display anything on the screen
[12:43] <HiddenWolf> I don't blame you for fixing A first, mind you.
[12:43] <daniels> but sometimes it's just flat-out impossible to tell
[12:43] <daniels> (doesn't help when it's BIOS-dependent, so you can't even have a whitelist of devices that work.)
[12:45] <HWolf> It's the kind of thing that caused sarge to ship with security disabled in /etc/apt/sources.list - every devel must have noticed that, fixed it in a few seconds, and went on with his live.
[12:45] <daniels> actually, I'm betting that most just weren't *using* sarge out of the box, CD-wise
[12:45] <daniels> i do test installs, but I don't use them for terribly long; I stay with the same install I've had for a while
[12:45] <daniels> customising it to work again just takes too long
[12:46] <daniels> also, they were enabled, just wrong
[12:46] <daniels> so it was a bit too subtle
[12:46] <HWolf> It nicely illustrates the "works for me, no issue" kind of problem, tho.
[12:46] <daniels> sure
[12:47] <daniels> but sometimes there are failures you really just can't detect
[12:47] <daniels> such as the security line shipping with 'testing' rather than 'unstable'
[12:47] <daniels> in any case, if you do have any specific issues with X et al, please do let me know and I'll do what I can
[12:48] <HWolf> X has been a charming bit of software since I started loving ubuntu, no issue there, but I'll let you know. :)
[12:48] <HWolf> I'll do a breezy test once it's somewhere near usable, and give you the heads-up on the mouse thing tho.
[12:49] <bob2> HWolf: er, the sarge issue wasn't noticed because the problem only manifested itself after stable pointed at sarge on the mirrors
[12:49] <daniels> x charms no-one
[12:52] <HWolf> Reason I bring this up is that I regularly have these discussions, and often people are like "well, it works for me / is not much of an issue / it'd only save the user a few seconds of time if I did that" and they'll happily go on hacking some nice new feature. :)
[12:53] <daniels> sure
[12:53] <daniels> sometimes there's not much we can do -- 'mouse wheel doesn't work' isn't entirely useful in and of itself
[12:53] <daniels> so as much information as you can give is awesome
[12:54] <daniels> anyway, bbiab
[12:54] <HWolf> I understand that the information I give just now isn't entirely adequate. :)
[12:54] <mdke> filing bugs is the best thing
[12:54] <mdke> even for the smallest usability issue
[12:55] <lsuactiafner> anyone know how many simultaneous connections a user opens when he browses compared to having a p2p app on?
[12:55] <HWolf> lsuactiafner, p2p usually takes up a magnitute more in connections than simple browsing.
[12:56] <lsuactiafner> 1:100 ratio?
[12:56] <HWolf> mdke, know what you're asking. That'd go from evo not checking mail at startup to that stupid progress-bar in archive-manager that doesn't display progress and back.
[12:56] <lsuactiafner> i need to limit outgoig TCP SYN request else i get flooded with ACKS on my 5k/s dailup
[12:56] <mdke> HWolf, absolutely anything
[12:56] <HWolf> lsuactiafner, I'd say somewhere 10 or 50:1, but I'm not an expert.
[12:57] <HWolf> mdke, like them in bugzilla here, or upstream? :)
[12:57] <lsuactiafner> thanks
[12:57] <mdke> HWolf, well it depends, both i guess. Sometimes they will get pushed upstream if you file them here first
[12:58] <mdke> HWolf, here is an example: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6076
[12:58] <HWolf> lsuactiafner, fyi, If I'm using torrent, i'm usually *limiting* uploading to 20 people per file.
[12:58] <HWolf> mdke, cool.
[12:59] <lsuactiafner> torrents dont even work for me, too slow
[12:59] <lsuactiafner> getting via a ftp is faster
[12:59] <HWolf> Going OT there. ;)
[01:14] <HWolf> btw, how do I find out which program is swapping even tho I have 600mb ram free?
[01:16] <Lathiat> HWolf: why are you concerned
[01:16] <Lathiat> its not an issue
[01:16] <Lathiat> linux will swap stuff out to keep disk buffers in memory
[01:16] <Lathiat> which is a much better use
[01:16] <HWolf> Hm, so the kernel will do that?
[01:17] <Lathiat> yes
[01:18] <HWolf> Looks silly to me, but ok
[01:31] <lsuactiafner> HWolf : sysctl -a | grep mem and ratio
[01:31] <HWolf> mdke, I'll blame you if I drive seb128 into cardiac arrest. 4 bugs on his plate, and that's just the things that come to mind now. :P
[01:31] <lsuactiafner> sysctl -e vm.overcommit_memory=1
[01:32] <lsuactiafner> vm.overcommit_ratio=16
[01:32] <lsuactiafner> works better like that in my experience but dont take my word for it
[01:41] <mdke> HWolf, *grins* ok. Make sure you check bugzilla to make sure the bug isn't already filed tho
[01:42] <HWolf> mdke, sure thing.
[01:43] <HWolf> I'll refrain from indulging till I switch to breezy tho. :)
[01:54] <Keybuk> meh ... *so* hot today :(
[01:57] <thom> not as  silly as yesterday
[01:58] <azeem> how was the concert?
[01:58] <HWolf> thom, it's worse than yesterday here
[01:58] <HWolf> or rather, much much nicer. ;)
[01:59] <thom> azeem: very, very, very good
[01:59] <thom> better than good
[02:00] <azeem> cool
[02:00] <HWolf> thom, very good is better than good, yes.  :S
[05:21] <tseng> i dunno what sites you are going to
[05:21] <tseng> flash is for suckers
[05:21] <HWolf> Nearly worth it, with the amount of flash-based popups for ringtones I get nowadays. :S
[05:23] <HWolf> One moment I'm listening to mozart, the next it's crazy frog, or whatever the next hype will be. :S
[05:38] <xxenon> hi
[05:38] <xxenon> is "noinotify" still needed when starting a 2.6.12 kernel ?
[05:58] <zul> xenon: no
[06:06] <wasabi> Oh damn.
[06:06] <wasabi> I found my Eclipse compile problem. When I don't use fakeroot it works fine. ;)
[07:43] <mdz> daniels: the reports of XKB trouble seem to indicate that perhaps other patches were dropped from earlier versions as well
[07:49] <jdub> mdz: weirdly, my keyboard worked with xorg -28 but not -29
[07:49] <ogra> mine is still stuck at us mapping and 101 keys
[07:50] <mdz> jdub: not so much weird as ludicrous ;-)
[07:50] <mdz> ogra: that's been broken since ~-26; I haven't tried to fix it
[07:50] <mdz> dvorak seems to work ok
[07:50] <ogra> yes
[07:50] <ogra> i noticed
[07:51] <mdz> ogra: if you can test it, look back through the revisions and look for a patch reverted without being mentioned in the changelog, and try reversing that change
[07:51] <ogra> i'll do... after i reviewed the patch i'm looking at
[07:52] <infinity> ...
[07:52] <infinity> Not so much "without being mentioned", but "being unmentioned".
[07:52] <infinity> Try to un-revert the patch that gets unmentioned from the -24 changelog. :)
[07:52] <Mithrandir> unrevert, aka "apply"?
[07:52] <infinity> (if you debdiff from -24 to current, you'll see some lines in the -24 changelog get mysteriously changed)
[07:53] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yes. :)
[07:53] <infinity> I haven't had a chance to look at it, due to it being a weekend, and me liking not being single.
[07:54] <mdz> infinity: do you still have some notes or something you could share?  it sounded like you had isolated the bit that should be reapplied
[07:54] <infinity> But I suspect that re-applying the stuff that got dropped from 24 to 25 will make people's keyboards live again.
[07:54] <infinity> mdz : The computer I was looking at it on is now in intercontinental transit, so I have nothing beyond handwaving in front of me.
[07:54] <mdz> -25 is gone from the mirrors, but I suppose it's still in the morgue
[07:55] <infinity> (a friend is coming to visit, and bringing the PPC machine that's been colocated at his house for the last 2 years)
[07:55] <infinity> -24 is the important one.
[07:56] <infinity> debdiff from -24 to anything newer will show the dropped "xkb cleanup" patches.
[07:58] <infinity> Err, no, from -25 to current.
[07:58] <infinity> -24 was just an FTBFS fix.
[08:00] <infinity> Meh, I wake up and start work in 6 hours anyway.  If it's still unfixed by then, I'm "on the job", so I'll get it done.
[08:01] <mdz> infinity: ogra said he would take a look when he finished with his current work
[08:01] <infinity> mdz : Alright, I'll ping ogra in the morning, then.  Or just check -changes for uploads. :)
[08:02] <infinity> ogra : If you get completely lost in a maze of X breakages, mail me, or hang around for 6ish hours and catch me on IRC.
[08:03] <ogra> heh, i'll do... but i'll keep my current X version around so i should be able to switch back if needed.... its the big time of gnome-charmap here :)
[08:11] <mdz> Kamion: I would like to add a line to sshd_config when ltsp-server is installed, and remove it when it is removed.  Which method would you recommend?
[08:19] <infinity> ogra : Ahh, I was right the first time.  Look at the diffs between -24 and -25.
[08:20] <infinity> ogra : The that I think we want back was introduced in -21, and dropped in -25 (in diffs from -24 to -25, you'll see that the -21 changelog gets changed retroactively)
[08:20] <infinity> s/The that/The patch that/
[08:20] <infinity> And now, to bed.
[08:20] <ogra> infinity, i'll do, GO TO BED NOW !!
[08:20] <infinity> Yes, mom.
[08:21] <ogra> heh
[08:21] <Kamion> mdz: run away. sshd_config is handled really badly at the moment
[08:21] <Kamion> mdz: what exact line do you need to add?
[08:22] <Kamion> daniels: can't remember what I pinged you about
[08:22] <Kamion> daniels: oh, it was xterm being uninstallable and unbuilt by anything
[08:23] <mdz> Kamion: "AcceptEnv LTSP_CLIENT"
[08:23] <Kamion> I wonder if that could just go in the default config - although it's rather unclean
[08:23] <mdz> if you don't mind adding it to the default configuration, that is of course fine too.  I don't know why environment variables shouldn't be accepted by default though
[08:23] <Kamion> er, LD_PRELOAD
[08:23] <Kamion> (say)
[08:23] <mdz> Kamion: I don't see the issue, unless it's a command-restricted login
[08:24] <Kamion> well, that exactly
[08:24] <Kamion> sshd doesn't distinguish at that point
[08:24] <Kamion> (afaik)
[08:24] <mdz> ah
[08:24] <mdz> due to privsep, or just the way it is?
[08:24] <Kamion> there are other kinds of restricted environments, remember
[08:24] <Kamion> e.g. restricted shells
[08:24] <mdz> yes
[08:25] <Kamion> plus in general I just prefer to be paranoid where sshd is concerned :-)
[08:25] <Kamion> so what goes in LTSP_CLIENT?
[08:26] <mdz> it's analogous to SSH_CLIENT
[08:26] <mdz> it'll just say where the client came from
[08:26] <mdz> but mostly things will just test whether it is set
[08:27] <mdz> to do things like, e.g., use  different xscreensaver configuration
[08:27] <Kamion> hmm, ok
[08:27] <mdz> s/  / a /
[08:27] <mdz> hmm
[08:27] <mdz> I suppose I could pass it via the command instead
[08:27] <mdz> ssh server env LTSP_CLIENT=blah <command>
[08:27] <mdz> as long as I can suffer the quoting issues
[08:27] <ogra> mdz, ssh has a option to pass env vars....
[08:28] <Kamion> if you stick with the AcceptEnv version, I think I'd prefer ltsp to do the sshd_config modification
[08:28] <mdz> ogra: see above
[08:28] <Kamion> ogra: that's what he's using
[08:28] <ogra> ah
[08:28] <ogra> sorry, missed that
[08:28] <Kamion> hmm, I wonder if multiple AcceptEnv variables work
[08:28] <mdz> I should hope so
[08:28] <mdz> but I'm going to try the env approach I think
[08:29] <Kamion> well, you can also do 'AcceptEnv FOO BAR BAZ' which is why I'm checking
[08:29] <Kamion> ah, yes, the man page says multiple AcceptEnv settings work
[08:29] <Kamion> so you can just stick 'AcceptEnv LTSP_CLIENT' on the end, and remove any line precisely matching that on removal
[08:30] <Kamion> should probably get upstream to implement Include <directory> at some point, although I'm betting they won't see the need
[08:34] <mdz> bah, need to reboot due to 2.6.12 abi change
[08:41] <mdz> gah, rebooting cost me my working xkb setup
[09:04] <ogra> hmm, whats wrong with the morgue, the listing stops at 2005-03-29
[09:07] <danielki> hmm
[09:07] <danielki> probably because that's my birthday
[09:10] <mdke> hmmm
[09:10] <mdke> how has dholbach succeeded in subscribing to the whole wiki
[09:10] <mdke> i am intrigued
[09:12] <ogra> mdz, Kamion ? any idea how to get the packages ?
[09:18] <thom> mdke: .* in the subscribe line should do it
[09:20] <mdke> thom, aha
[09:27] <mdke> thom, doesn't seem to have done the trick
[10:04] <abarbaccia> hey all - can someone give me a gameplan on whats going to be included in breezy?
[10:05] <whiprush> abarbaccia: scour udu.wiki.canonical.com
[10:05] <whiprush> everything is in there
[10:05] <whiprush> BreezyGoals will give you a general idea
[10:13] <Echylo> slaapwel iedereen :)
[10:43] <mdz> ogra: any luck with xorg?
[10:43] <ogra> mdz, not yet
[10:44] <ogra> i cant compare with -21, the morgue doesnt have packages after 2005-03-29 it seems....
[10:44] <mdz> -24 is still in the archive; that's all we need
[10:44] <ogra> but it looks like a symlinking problem...
[10:47] <ogra> mdz, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb -> /etc/X11/xkb/ and /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB might do it
[10:48] <mdz>    * Fix keysym<->string semantics by backporting the rest of Markus Kuhn's
[10:48] <mdz> -    Great Keysym Cleanup from HEAD, and creating a symlink from
[10:48] <mdz> -    /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB into /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 (closes: Ubuntu#10942).
[10:48] <mdz> +    Great Keysym Cleanup from HEAD (closes: Ubuntu#10942).
[10:48] <mdz> yep
[10:49] <mdz> diff -u xorg-6.8.2/debian/xlibs-data.links xorg-6.8.2/debian/xlibs-data.links
[10:49] <mdz> --- xorg-6.8.2/debian/xlibs-data.links
[10:49] <mdz> +++ xorg-6.8.2/debian/xlibs-data.links
[10:49] <mdz> @@ -2,2 +1,0 @@
[10:49] <mdz> -usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
[10:49] <mdz> -usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XErrorDB usr/lib/X11/XErrorDB
[10:49] <ogra> hmm
[10:50] <mdz> I will test and upload
[10:57] <ogra> @|~
[10:57] <ogra> works :-D
[11:59] <mdz> ogra: ok, you upload then. my build failed :-)
[11:59] <ogra> meh, i havent built yet....
[11:59] <ogra> ok


[00:15] <superm1> bryce, this bug about keys getting "stuck", like eject, brightness, etc.  has it been accounted towards the kernel or X server, do you know?
[00:16] <bryce> bug id?
[00:16] <superm1> lets see there's been a few.
[00:16] <superm1> i know bug 273468 is one of them
[00:17] <superm1> it causes gnome power manager to go crazy
[00:17] <superm1> because the key is "stuck"
[00:17] <superm1> and actually i think i just answered my own question; if i run "showkey" in a VT, i'm not seeing keyrelease events
[00:17] <superm1> kernel's fault then
[00:18] <superm1> wgrant, ^ that plays into that mess with gnome-power-manager right now
[00:18] <bryce> yeah sounds like an issue mdz was hot on with thinkpads the past few weeks
[00:19] <superm1> Bug 261721
[00:19] <superm1> that's sounding like the same thing too
[00:19] <bryce> superm1: and yeah we ended up narrowing it down to being a kernel issue.  you could check with  him to see if the kernel folks made progress on it
[00:19] <bryce> superm1: btw I've still been on that dithering bug
[00:20] <bryce> superm1: I've been testing some patches for alex today to try to make it display correctly with no dithering required
[00:20] <superm1> bryce, I'd say don't put too much more at it at the current moment, the drivers are missing enough features still (read acceleration) that it won't be sufficient to use them for shipping at this time
[00:20] <bryce> unfortunately we've not gotten a confirmed patch yet, so may not be able to get this fixed in intrepid.
[00:20] <bryce> ok cool
[00:21] <superm1> so you priorities are probably better elsewhere atm
[00:21] <bryce> ironically, the bug is much less noticeable with the new desktop image
[00:21] <bryce> ok thanks for letting me know that.  yeah the bugs have been swarming lately...
[00:23] <superm1> suppose that's what happens when release gets close, more and more people get to testing
[00:40] <bryce> yeah
[00:41] <bryce> it gets to feel a bit like being a schoolteacher, with a zillion people asking about a zillion different things :-)
[00:46] <wgrant> superm1: rtg said he probably wouldn't get to it for a few weeks :(
[06:14] <superm1> wgrant, well that's not good.
[06:14] <superm1> wgrant, that means intrepid goes out the door broke with this..
[06:14] <superm1> and god knows if something is wrong with gpm's changes too that amplifies it
[06:14] <superm1> wgrant, do you by chance have a hardy kernel handy that you can try still?
[06:14] <superm1> to make sure the rest of the stack is in order
[06:27] <wgrant> superm1: I don't, no. But I'll have time to debug in about 24 hours.
[06:27] <wgrant> I need to work out how to convince g-p-m not to use XRandR to adjust brightness on this hardware.
[06:28] <superm1> i'm still at a loss why it's using xrandr to do such things
[06:28] <wgrant> I really don't want to see Intrepid broken like this, but I've lacked time over the past couple of weeks.
[06:28] <superm1> or at least trying to
[06:28] <wgrant> XRandR support brightness setting on lots of hardware.
[06:28] <wgrant> My hardware appears to report that it's capable, so X tells g-p-m that it can do it.
[06:28] <wgrant> g-p-m's code quite deliberately prefers XRandR over HAL for this.
[06:28] <superm1> are there any hal settings that can be overridden?
[06:29] <superm1> to change the behavior
[06:29] <superm1> because pretty much any Dell will be affected
[06:29] <wgrant> No, it's hardcoded in g-p-m that it will use XRandR if availab.e
[06:29] <superm1> the keys themselves will always emit either ACPI or SMI events
[06:29] <wgrant> If I reverse that check, it uses HAL and things work much better.
[06:30] <wgrant> This issue is not the key one.
[06:30] <superm1> what's the consequence of reversing the check?
[06:30] <wgrant> It will prefer HAL brightness mechanisms over XRandR ones.
[06:30] <superm1> yeah, so is that really a bad thing?
[06:30] <wgrant> The correct fix it to prevent XRandR from lieing about is abilities.
[06:30] <wgrant> I don't know if it will break on other laptops.
[06:31] <superm1> well in the event a time sensitive fix isn't found, you can just add a patch to check for dell
[06:31] <superm1> and if dell hardware, switch
[06:31] <superm1> if not then follow the normal code path
[06:32] <wgrant> I plan to poke in the X driver code over the weekend.
[07:54] <elmargol> tjaalton: ping
[08:54] <crevette> hello gents
[08:56] <crevette> I have a flat screen for few days, and I wanted to give a try to hot plugging functionality, how I am supposed to be able to  detect it and use it ?
[08:56] <crevette> I can see something wen I run xrander
[08:56] <crevette> and I see it also when I run the xrander GNOME applet
[08:57] <crevette> pressing the switch screen button on my laptop doesn't do anything
[08:57] <wgrant> crevette: Select the screen, select a resolution, position it, click Apply?
[08:58] <crevette> I pressed apply already but nothing changed
[08:58] <crevette> It is true that I didn't moved it
[08:59] <crevette> I just moved it a few mm and pressing apply make a dialog on my laptop
[08:59] <crevette> I'm checking it
[08:59] <crevette> so it is necessary to mive a few the screen to make it works?
[08:59] <crevette> is it a bug?
[09:00] <crevette> s/mive/move/
[09:00] <crevette> I need to log out and in
[09:02] <crevette> it's kind of work
[09:02] <crevette> the resolution at GDM on my laptop is blurry
[09:03] <crevette> once logged in my sesssion I have the native resolution on my laptop but not on the screen
[09:03] <crevette> however I can see the panel on my laptop :)
[09:03] <crevette> can't
[09:04] <wgrant> crevette: Graphics card model?
[09:05]  * crevette doesn't like to be so negative :)
[09:05] <crevette> laptop: T61 with intel
[09:05] <crevette> screen samsung SyncMaster 206 BW
[09:05] <crevette> connection through VGA
[09:06] <crevette> humm xrander doesn't use the best resolution he can on my screen
[09:07] <wgrant> Set it manually in gnome-display-properties, then?
[09:07] <crevette> yep I was search the name of this capplet :)
[09:07] <crevette> searching
[09:08] <crevette> I'm sure this resolution wasn't proposed first time I used it, just before I logged out
[09:09] <crevette> okay trying again
[09:09] <crevette> see you
[09:09] <crevette> thanks
[09:09] <wgrant> You shouldn't need to restart...
[09:14] <crevette> okay so I can see my mouse pointer on the screen, but no application can be moved over there
[09:15] <crevette> and the resolution seems to be not the one I chose
[09:15] <crevette> how could I provide an useful bug report for that?
[09:15] <elmargol> is there no way to disable powermixer from the nvidia driver?
[09:15] <elmargol> This anoying powersaving feature freezes my system
[09:16] <crevette> should I open it against ubuntu  or you'd prefer elsewhere
[09:17] <crevette> desactivating the other screen works fine without having to log out
[09:18] <crevette> bug gnome-display-properties crashed
[09:18] <crevette> :/
[10:07] <mvo> tseliot: could you please have a look at #283905 ?
[10:08] <tseliot> mvo: sure
[10:11] <tseliot> mvo: it's a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/261816
[10:11] <tjaalton> elmargol: yes?
[10:12] <elmargol> oh wrong nick sorry
[10:13] <tjaalton> elmargol: np
[10:13] <tseliot> mvo: don't worry, this won't affect dist-upgrades to Intrepid
[10:14] <elmargol> looks like nvidia at 100mhz is to slow for kwin :/
[10:15] <elmargol> Alt Tab has about 10 fps
[10:16] <elmargol> Somehow the nvidia powermixer crashes my system. I have limited nv clock and memory clock to 100 mhz now
[10:16] <elmargol> Maybe this fixes my issues. tseliot if this works i add a comment to the open bugreport
[10:17] <tseliot> elmargol: ok, thanks
[10:17] <elmargol> It is sad that there is no way to disable powermixer
[10:17] <elmargol> I googled about an hour today and there are a lot requests for this
[10:18] <elmargol> by default the linux nvidia drivers runs at the maximum performance mode
[10:19] <elmargol> If you have are running at battery the mhz is limited to medium. if you run on AC there is no limit
[10:20] <elmargol> there seems to be no way to control the fan
[10:20] <elmargol> my GPU runs between 50 and 65°C
[10:21] <elmargol> The fan starts at 66°C
[10:21] <mvo> tseliot: thanks
[10:21] <tseliot> mvo: I'll backport the fix to Hardy
[11:08] <mvo> I want to add a safeguard in InputSection removal in update-manager, should I test for xserver-xorg-core >= 1.5 or is there a better way?
[11:23] <tseliot> mvo: yes, I guess that would be a good way to test it.xserver-xorg-core is epoch'd -> 2:1.5
[11:24] <mvo> tseliot: thanks, will add it
[12:28] <james_w> bug 284042: it sounds like we want this to go, should there be a transition for users?
[13:45] <tseliot> james_w, mvo: about bug 284042, maybe we could migrate users from "via" to "vesa"?
[13:48] <jcristau> tseliot: openchrome seems more appropriate
[13:50] <tseliot> jcristau: does it support all the graphics cards supported by unichrome?
[13:50] <mvo> jcristau: does unicrome and opencrom cover the same cards? if so, we could solve it in the package with a symlink
[13:50] <jcristau> tseliot: hopefully...
[13:50] <tjaalton> openchrome supports more
[13:50] <jcristau> mvo: symlink is not enough
[13:51] <mvo> jcristau: what else is needed (sorry for my ignorance)
[13:51] <mvo> ?
[13:53] <jcristau> when it loads module foo, the server looks for the fooModuleData symbol
[13:53] <tseliot> ok then we can make "via" a transitional package and replace "via" with "openchrome" (or whatever it is) in the xorg.conf
[13:53] <jcristau> tseliot: i'm doing the latter already
[13:54] <tseliot> jcristau: how?
[13:54] <jcristau> (and even adding this symbol is not always enough, for some reason. it fails for i810/intel)
[13:54] <jcristau> tseliot: xserver-xorg.postinst
[13:55] <tseliot> ok, let me have a look at the source
[13:57] <jcristau> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/debian/xorg.git;a=blob;f=debian/xserver-xorg.postinst.in;h=629291e210c0bffbf4bc3dffab8bcf0c446804a5;hb=refs/heads/debian-experimental#l955
[13:57] <tseliot> jcristau: what happens if "Device" is written in lowercase?
[13:57] <jcristau> tseliot: you lose. don't do that. :)
[13:58] <tjaalton> is it even valid?
[13:58] <tseliot> jcristau: I don't but yes, it's valid
[13:58] <tseliot> and I've seen a lot of xorg.conf files like that
[13:58] <jcristau> really?
[13:58] <tseliot> yes, unfortunately
[13:59] <jcristau> i'm mostly interested in handling upgrades for the configs written by dexconf though..
[13:59] <tseliot> mvo: I guess we can do it with X-Kit and we already do with nvidia
[13:59] <jcristau> tseliot: x-kit is Required?
[14:00] <tseliot> jcristau: I'm not blaming it on you. It's just that we have to deal with a lot of different xorg.conf files
[14:00] <tseliot> what do you mean by Required?
[14:00] <tseliot> installed by default?
[14:00] <jcristau> installed everywhere
[14:00] <tseliot> yes, in Ubuntu Intrepid
[14:01] <tseliot> it doesn't depend on anything else other than python
[14:01] <tjaalton> no x-kit here :)
[14:01] <tseliot> tjaalton: python-xkit
[14:01] <jcristau> i don't see why you'd do it there instead of in xserver-xorg, but meh
[14:01] <tjaalton> Priority: optional
[14:02] <tjaalton> tseliot: lool already merged xorg, so we have the same logic in the postinst
[14:02] <jcristau> tjaalton: i didn't mean required in a litteral sense. just depended on by x..
[14:02] <tjaalton> jcristau: ah, ok
[14:03] <tseliot> jcristau: ah, then no, X doesn't depend on it
[14:03] <tjaalton> jockey-common seems to depend on it, not x
[14:04] <tseliot> tjaalton: right
[14:06] <jcristau> ok, so x-kit has no business modifying xorg.conf automatically on upgrades. good. :)
[14:07] <tseliot> no, of course not ;)
[14:10] <tseliot> jcristau: we're using x-kit in Update Manager to migrate some users from "nvidia" to "nv" when the proprietary driver is not compatible with xorg, etc.
[14:10] <jcristau> ok
[14:10] <tjaalton> btw, it's surprisingly common for people to not have -input-all installed (and possibly no evdev), so I think the server should depend on evdev now with input-hotplug
[14:11] <tjaalton> or would xserver-xorg Depends: -input-all | -evdev | -ABI do?
[14:13] <tseliot> jcristau: about lowercase words in the postinst, is it to late to do something like this? "[dD]evice"
[14:13] <tseliot> instead of "Device", I mean
[14:14] <jcristau> bah. i guess i can't do case-insensitive match in sed...
[14:15] <tseliot> jcristau: try this: echo device | sed 's/[dD]/T/'
[14:15] <tseliot> it works
[14:16] <jcristau> yes. but, you still don't match "DeViCe" :)
[14:16] <jcristau> anyway i guess Device/device would be good enough
[14:16] <jcristau> should i do the same for Driver?
[14:16] <tseliot> yes
[14:16] <jcristau> 'Section'?
[14:16] <tseliot> yep
[14:17] <jcristau> ok, thanks
[14:18] <tseliot> jcristau: I know this is ugly but try this: echo deViCe | sed 's/[dD][eE][vV][iI][cC][eE]/Device/'
[14:18] <jcristau> yeah. i don't want to do that :)
[14:18] <tseliot> (just for fun)
[14:18] <tseliot> :-P
[14:23] <tseliot> tjaalton, jcristau: jokes aside now, are you going to make xserver-xorg-video-unichrome a transitional package?
[14:24] <jcristau> i've never shipped -unichrome, so no
[14:25] <tjaalton> it should be just dropped
[14:25] <jcristau> about via, i'm not sure
[14:26] <tseliot> tjaalton: ah, right, openchrome is installed by default
[14:27] <jcristau> hopefully the package manager will get -all installed if you only had -via or -unichrome, but...
[14:28] <tseliot> ok
[14:28] <jcristau> has anyone done some upgrade testing for this?
[14:30] <tjaalton> not me
[14:32] <tseliot> maybe mvo? ^^
[14:51] <jcristau> tjaalton: evdev in master shouldn't crash with joysticks anymore, you'll want to cherry-pick 7243116f
[14:52] <tjaalton> jcristau: thanks
[14:53] <jcristau> (it's the patch i suggested yesterday ;) )
[14:54] <mvo> via and -openchrome>  why not add a transitional package to be certain that people get the right driver?
[14:55] <jcristau> mvo: sounds reasonable to me
[14:56] <mvo> excellent
[19:19] <bryce> wgrant: do you know what the deal is with bug 281308?  It almost sounds like it may be a user issue rather than a real bug, but it's unclear.  Ideas?
[20:14] <tseliot> bryce, mvo: FYI I have attached Aaron's patch for Compiz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/269904
[20:16] <bryce> tseliot: okay thanks, I'll review it
[20:17] <bryce> hmm
[20:17] <tseliot> ok
[20:20] <bryce> there's a realloc and some changes from single val to arrays, both of which raise some risk of memory errors
[20:20] <bryce> I'll comment on the bug
[20:33] <tseliot> ok, great
[20:34] <bryce> I think this one will need to be mvo's call
[20:34] <tseliot> bryce: BTW do you know where I can find the prototypes of the functions of randr?
[20:34] <bryce> yeah
[20:35] <tseliot> e.g. GetCrtcInfo()
[20:35] <jcristau> tseliot: <X11/extensions/Xrandr.h>
[20:35] <bryce> package should be libxrandr-dev
[20:36] <tseliot> ok, thanks
[21:06] <wgrant> bryce: I'm not sure I know of all of the issue - there might be other circumstances in which it happens than the one I caused.
[21:07] <bryce> wgrant: ideas on what we could do to resolve it?  anything I could do to help?
[21:08] <wgrant> bryce: The main issue is that users are stupid.
[21:08] <wgrant> We just don't stop them from letting apt-get remove half of their system, and I don't think we should.
[21:09] <wgrant> I believe that the main issue was a few hours a week ago during the XInput property transition where apt-get would have wanted to remove most of GNOME, evdev, and synaptics, but there might be other cases
[21:11] <bryce> wgrant: yeah that's how it sounded to me too
[21:12] <bryce> wgrant: okay I'm going to drop it as a release-critical bug.
[21:13] <wgrant> We maybe could make the dist-upgrader make sure that at least evdev is installed.
[21:14] <bryce> possibly yeah
[21:14] <bryce> ideally, I'd like to see someone reproduce the issue from scratch in a plain vanilla hardy->intrepid upgrade
[21:15] <wgrant> It's not possible.
[21:15] <wgrant> Well, unless they have some strange packages.
[21:15] <wgrant> The whole stack is installable now, so it won't try to remove things.
[21:15] <wgrant> The only Hardy->Intrepid upgrades it hit were during that 3 hours + mirror lag, AFAICT.
[21:17] <milli> bryce: I'm told to come here and ask you about rolling to ver 1.2.3 of xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd at this point.
[21:17] <milli> for 3D support (XVideo, yeah!) on recent ATI chipsets
[21:17] <jcristau> milli: use radeon
[21:18] <milli> jcristau: no worky on R500 / R600 based chipsets
[21:18] <milli> e.g. M56 (what I have)
[21:18] <jcristau> milli: that's not true
[21:18] <milli> a.k.a. X1400
[21:18] <milli> really?
[21:19] <milli> when did that change?
[21:19] <jcristau> 6.9 iirc
[21:19] <jcristau> wgrant: we got reports of aptitude removing most of X on upgrades from etch to lenny, although stuff is installable, i have no idea why.  apt-get does better...
[21:19] <wgrant> jcristau: How odd.
[21:20]  * milli stands corrected
[21:22] <superm1> bryce, it appears to work correctly without that library.  it's gonna take some nasty packaging hacks to make it build right though
[21:22] <superm1> i'll fsck with it a bit
[21:52] <bryce> wgrant: thanks again.  release task on 281308 is closed
[21:53] <wgrant> bryce: Great! I should probably sort out my RC bugs soon.
[21:54] <bryce> yep
[21:55] <wgrant> First time I've had any.
[21:56] <bryce> cjwatson says if we don't think we'll be able to get to the task by intrepid, that we should drop the release task.  to do that, mark it wontfix, and that will reopen the main task
[21:57] <wgrant> The one that I have right now is quite doable (I have a patch, and I think it makes the logic more correct). And I think I was one of the few who knew about that LP task quirk.
[21:57] <wgrant> It really could be documented better.
[22:44] <bryce> wgrant: yep
[22:54] <wgrant> superm1: Seen Redhat bug #444440?
[22:54] <wgrant> Fedora bug #444440
[22:54] <wgrant> Stupid ubottu.
[22:55] <wgrant> Als, LP bug #271706.


[08:15] <Mirv> seb128: hi! would you have time to give your ideas regarding the first proposal at bug #1604744 ? (technically qtcreator in the PPA would also need binNEW pre-ack-review but it's the complete solution that matters)
[08:17] <seb128> Mirv, hey, I can try to have a look today but quite busy, was at a minihackfest and trying to catch up with backlog now
[08:17] <Mirv> seb128: ok well at first I'll ask sil2100 (hi sil2100!) and if I agree with him on a solution I'll be back to you for the binNEW and you can also at that point flame the whole idea down :)
[08:18] <Mirv> zoltan liked the idea so I have SDK team's support for the solution, but this is really about Ubuntu archives
[08:18] <sil2100> Mirv: oh! Hi! What's up?
[08:19] <seb128> Mirv, k
[08:19] <Mirv> sil2100: of course assuming you'd have time... check the bug report above and give your thoughts on the proposal. the diff to ubuntu-touch-meta (package descriptions) is still missing, I'll attach it.
[08:21] <sil2100> Mirv: oh! The removal of the sdk from the touch seeds! It was on my TODO list somewhere, great that you're working on that now
[08:22] <sil2100> Didn't have the time to pick that up yet
[08:23] <Mirv> sil2100: it's just hard to wrap my head on being certain which solution is the best. this one would deprecate 3 of the 4 meta packages, and also kill src:qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu while offering two locations where instructions to guide people to correct Ubuntu SDK location (package descriptions of ubuntu-sdk-libs and qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu transitional package from src:qtcreator)
[08:24] <Mirv> sil2100: I need to have new qtcreator before I can have new Qt, because the old qtcreator doesn't work with new Qt, so there's my motivation to remove the plugin that is not ported to any new stable release but just in progress for development series :)
[08:24] <seb128> Mirv, I didn't look much at the sdk layout and phone for a while, I'm unsure I'm much insight/opinion on those changes, I think sil2100 is better placed to comment there
[08:25] <Mirv> ok.
[08:26] <Mirv> sil2100: diff in qtcreator regarding the transitional package http://paste.ubuntu.com/20286151/
[08:26] <sil2100> Let me take a look at that in 5 minutes
[09:07] <Mirv> rvr: tsdgeos: now recreated the success log for https://trello.com/c/M75g1XTv/3428-1630-ubuntu-landing-001-qtdeclarative-opensource-src-qtdeclarative-opensource-src-gles-sil2100-tsdgeos
[09:07] <Mirv> ok so I'm doing 6 different things right now at the same time, time to tune down a bit
[09:08] <tsdgeos> he he :)
[09:14] <jgdx> Mirv, thanks for that backport =)
[09:15] <Mirv> jgdx: you're quick to thank, let's see if it compiles :D can you test it if it compiles, and do you have idea of interest parties that might be affected by newer qtquickcontrols?
[09:17] <Mirv> jgdx: ok, it does not seem to compile as is (against Qt 5.4.1), Private/qquicktreemodeladaptor.cpp:734:11: error: ‘qInfo’ was not declared in this scope. I wonder how much hacking it'd need.
[09:17] <jgdx> Mirv, uitk, unity8, uss, usc are at least heavy users of the qq layouts plugin :)
[09:18] <jgdx> Mirv, ah, qinfo is that new loglevel
[09:18] <jgdx> is that the only one?
[09:19] <Mirv> no idea, I'll try patching that out, only two occurences in the source code
[09:36] <Mirv> jgdx: mmh, Private/qquickstyleitem.cpp:818:41: error: ‘AA_SetPalette’ is not a member of ‘Qt’ is the next problem
[09:37] <jgdx> Mirv, aaah, okay. Seems less trivial already.
[09:39] <Mirv> "this is escalating quickly". I'll add qtbase to the mix with https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/109625/ but if this is only getting worse we might need to rethink.
[09:40] <jgdx> Mirv, right. It's super nice to have, not critical.
[09:45] <Mirv> jgdx: let's recheck in 3 hours or tomorrow after qtbase has built with AA_SetPalette
[09:58] <jgdx> Mirv, okay
[09:58] <Mirv> sil2100: bzoltan: http://people.ubuntu.com/~timo-jyrinki/updatenote.png wdyt?
[10:05] <sil2100> Mirv: woo!
[10:05] <sil2100> Mirv: +1
[10:05] <sil2100> Mirv: how would that work? When would it be visible?
[10:07] <Mirv> sil2100: after upgrading to new qtcreator, if one had Ubuntu SDK (qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu) installed before upgrading
[10:07] <Mirv> and the action there (button) is to open developer.ubuntu.com in x-www-browser
[10:09] <bzoltan> Mirv:  would it be possible to give a direct link to an info page?
[10:09] <Mirv> ...and if one has update-notifier installed naturally
[10:10] <Mirv> bzoltan: give me a link to the info page if http://developer.ubuntu.com/ is not enough. I just thought that the top page is unlikely to change (url not likely to bitrot), but if there's a better url I'm happy to use it
[10:22] <bzoltan> Mirv:  I think this is the ultimate page - https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/platform/sdk/installing-the-sdk/
[10:27] <Mirv> bzoltan: ok, seems to be working without the /en/ too: https://developer.ubuntu.com/phone/platform/sdk/installing-the-sdk/ - I just wonder if it's possible that url could go 404 within a year or so if the site is revamped.. but maybe it's likely enough that the url will work for quite a while
[10:27] <Mirv> bzoltan: updating
[10:30] <bzoltan> Mirv:  I will make sure that URL stays
[10:31] <sil2100> Mirv: approved the seed changes, you want me to top-approve or do you want to consult someone else as well?
[10:31] <Mirv> sil2100: top-approve would be welcome, it needs to be tried out anyway before anyone can say it's perfect.
[10:33] <Mirv> (thank you)
[10:34] <sil2100> yw! Thanks for picking this up!
[10:50] <Mirv> sil2100: on to a different topic: it turns out it's the image 40 from staging (ubuntu) that works, and 41 that is broken. the unfortunate thing is that the diff is huge. http://paste.ubuntu.com/20295674/ I
[10:50] <Mirv> 'm not sure where to start upgrade sfrom
[10:52] <Mirv> but I will try something regardless
[10:52] <Mirv> of course I'm not sure if it would be the custom tarballs or such
[11:11] <sil2100> Mirv: at least we know which image we can start off from
[12:45] <rvr> Elleo: ping
[12:46] <Elleo> rvr: pong?
[13:45] <boiko> trainguards: hello, any idea on what went wrong here: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1600 ?
[14:03] <sil2100> boiko: look all ok now it seems?
[14:04] <boiko> sil2100: yeah, not sure why the lock was kept there, salem_ cancelled the operation
[14:04] <boiko> sil2100: thanks
[14:06] <rvr> Elleo: Silo 76 is now approved
[14:07] <Elleo> rvr: cool, thanks
[14:07] <Elleo> Saviq: ^
[14:07] <rvr> dbarth: mardy: This merge proposal needs review https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/libsignon-glib/unregistered-lp1593805/+merge/298096
[14:19] <dbarth> rvr: ack
[14:20] <dbarth> rvr: done
[14:21] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Do you have a bit of time to review the packaging changes for https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1694 and publish it if you're ok with it?
[14:22] <sil2100> ChrisTownsend: on it now!
[14:22] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Thanks!
[14:33] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Oh, seems there is already packaging feedback for that ticket.
[14:34] <ChrisTownsend> I'll work on that.
[14:34] <sil2100> I think it needs a breaks/replaces for the moved files
[14:34] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Yep
[14:34] <ChrisTownsend> Completely forgot about that:)
[15:10] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Hey, so is this what I need for the replaces/breaks?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20317069/
[15:14] <sil2100> ChrisTownsend: yes, should be enough
[15:15] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Ok, thanks for verifying:)
[15:15] <sil2100> In this case we don't need anything else as it's basically just moving in one direction
[16:38] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Hey, so adding that replaces/breaks does not work as it should...apt wants to remove libertine-tools on dist-upgrade and hold back python3-libertine-lxc on upgrade
[16:39] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: I just want all of the packages to just upgrade and no packages are held or removed.
[16:39] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: Which is what it did before I added the replaces/breaks.
[16:53] <ChrisTownsend> sil2100: nevermind, I figured out my mistake:)
[17:27] <dobey> so i guess this jenkins issue is that it can't talk to jenkins
[17:27] <dobey> no idea why
[17:58] <robru> dobey: hm?
[18:00] <dobey> robru: oh, doh. wrong channel
[18:01] <robru> koza: bluez isn't set up for train releases.
[18:01] <dobey> am having a problem where the trigger job is failing to trigger the job it's supposed to trigger, getting a 401 from jenkins api
[18:01] <robru> dobey: oh, a jenkaas issue?
[18:02] <dobey> robru: yeah