[00:06] <real_ate> any of the kubuntu bugs people here?
[00:06]  * real_ate pokes
[00:07] <Mamarok> real_ate: do you need help?
[00:07] <real_ate> well i have been tracking down an issue
[00:07] <real_ate> and i think i have come to the root of it
[00:07] <real_ate> ... i don't have the kwin recording "effect" in my system
[00:07] <Mamarok> real_ate: is it already reported as bug in launchpad?
[00:08] <real_ate> Mamarok: i'm looking at that right now too
[00:08] <real_ate> nope! :P
[00:08] <Mamarok> real_ate: the best would be to check if there is a bug and comment on it or file one
[00:09] <real_ate> Mamarok: well i wanted to see if i was an isolated case first... hence why i came in here
[00:09] <real_ate> .... the kwin effect to record your desktop... is it installed by default
[00:09] <real_ate> ... is it even "installed" :S its more of a plugin than a program
[00:09] <Mamarok> real_ate: as most of the devs are in Europe, it's already late, you should try #kubuntu, then eventually file a bug
[00:10] <real_ate> Mamarok: right so ;)
[00:10]  * real_ate is also a dev and also in europe
[00:10] <real_ate> :P
[00:10]  * Mamarok is going to bed now too...
[00:10] <real_ate> i'll file a bug so
[00:10] <real_ate> Mamarok: night ;)
[00:10] <Mamarok> real_ate: thanks for reporting anyway, gn8 :)
[00:12] <real_ate> Mamarok: i know you're going to bed
[00:12] <real_ate> but can i ask one more question
[00:12] <Mamarok> go on
[00:12] <real_ate> .... is kubuntu-bugs the group where i should file the bug?
[00:12] <real_ate> or should i just file it in ubuntu?
[00:13] <Mamarok> real_ate: exactly :)
[00:13] <real_ate> ... exactly what? you mean file it in ubuntu
[00:13] <real_ate> ?
[00:14] <Mamarok> in the kubuntu-bugs group, as you said :)
[00:14] <real_ate> Mamarok: well thats the thing... it doesn't have any "Add bug" link
[00:15] <Mamarok> well, you report it in bugs.launchpad.net, there you can add the group
[00:15] <real_ate> ok... great thanks
[00:16] <real_ate> thank you for your help
[00:16] <Mamarok> you are welcome :)
[00:16]  * Mamarok now really goes to bed
[00:48] <nhandler> ryanakca: Great job on the wiki theme!
[00:54] <ryanakca> nhandler: Thanks :)
[00:58] <nhandler> ryanakca: Any idea when/if ubuntunew is going to be moving to wiki.ubuntu.com? Also, are we really going to keep 3 kubuntu themes?
[01:00] <super__rad> trying to help out with kubuntu, I'm going through kde-bugs finding all the feature requests. The wiki says to post the "thanks for taking the time to make ubuntu better....post on brainstorm" message and then ask in #ubuntu-bugs for it to be changed to wishlist, do I need to change status from "new" to "confirmed" aswell?
[01:01] <dtchen> yw
[01:03] <ryanakca> nhandler: Umm... not sure, I didn't know we had a third one, but eventually kubuntunew will become default. As for ubuntunew, you'll have to ask mdke :)
[01:04] <dtchen> err, wrong buffer  *sigh*
[01:05] <nhandler> ryanakca: Yeah, we have kubuntu, kubuntu2, and kubuntunew right now ;)
[01:06] <ryanakca> nhandler: Hmmm :)
[01:07] <ryanakca> nhandler: I think 'kubuntu2' might be a bugfix (Matt got rid of some broken links for us) for 'kubuntu' ... I haven't checked the difference though
[01:28] <rgreening> ryanakca: how do you load the new theme
[01:29] <vorian> kubuntunew
[01:30] <vorian> rgreening: you have to click on your name in the top left corner for userprefs
[01:30] <ryanakca> rgreening: Click the link I put in my blog post, then in the Preferred theme: dropdown box select kubuntunew
[01:30] <vorian> left as in right, sorry
[01:30] <vorian> ryanakca: nice job
[01:31] <ryanakca> rgreening: found it, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Home?action=userprefs
[01:31] <ryanakca> vorian: thanks :)
[01:31] <vorian> i like the way you did the 'show editing options' too
[01:31] <ryanakca> I'm planning on starting to tackle the website TODO next week, exams this week and Monday
[01:32]  * ryanakca => chemistry review
[01:32] <vorian> ewww
[01:32] <ryanakca> vorian: You'll want to thank mdke for that part :)
[01:32] <vorian> ah
[01:38] <yuriy> JontheEchidna, ScottK: are you sure this kde-icons-oxygen -> kdebase-runtime-data change is right?
[01:38] <yuriy> bug 388643
[01:38] <yuriy> i checked, icons start disappearing if I remove kde-icons-oxygen
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> kde-icons-oxygen -> kdebase-runtime-data change? I know kde-icons-oxygen is no longer in kdebase-runtime, but in its own source package
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> oxygen-icons
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> the thing is that we need to figure out what should depend on it
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> I personally think it'd be reasonable to make kdebase-runtime depend on it, since any kde app needs kdebase-runtime to run and it was providing it before
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> though technically KDE could use and xdg-compliant icon theme...
[01:50] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: so nothing depends on it now?
[01:50] <yuriy> I think kdebase-runtime should, yeah
[01:51] <yuriy> also I think oxygen is supposed to be xdg compliant
[01:51] <yuriy> maybe it's that the other ones aren't
[01:53] <yuriy> JontheEchidna: or, more logically maybe, should kdebase-runtime-data depend on it?
[01:53] <shtylman> yuriy: your oxygen icons are now in the go-oo install
[01:53] <shtylman> at least the initial set I checked out a few days ago
[01:54] <yuriy> shtylman: nice :) i'll try to get to fixing up the scripts and regenerating to only include oxygen soon
[01:54] <shtylman> yuriy: thanks for the work on that btw...makes the whole thing look fantastic
[01:54] <yuriy> shtylman: and thanks for your work on the widgets and dialogs!
[01:55] <shtylman> yuriy: hold off on removing the non-oxygen icons (I asked for a bit more clarification on that today) ... want to actually make sure it is the right thing to do :)
[01:56] <yuriy> shtylman: yeah i'm not sure that fallback works right now, from what we saw when you don't have the crystal style installed (should have been falling back to tango)
[02:01] <JontheEchidna> super__rad: for wishlist items for kubuntu we don't usually tell people to go report them in brainstorm. If the feature is not implemented and is a reasonable feature we usually mark it as confirmed
[02:01] <JontheEchidna> of course we do eventually want to send the wishlist items to bugs.kde.org and link them to the bug report (click the "also affects project" link)
[02:02] <JontheEchidna> otherwise they just tend to sit there ;-)
[02:03] <super__rad> ok, was told by someone on #ubuntu-bugs to copy and paste that brainstorm bit then change it to confirmed
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> brainstorm isn't the most kde friendly place, unfortunately. Generally wishlist items aren't too unmanageable for Kubuntu/KDE stuff
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> so we tend to not use brainstorm, but maybe that should change in the future? I dunno
[02:05] <nhandler> super__rad: Personally, I find that stock reply to be completely pointless
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> ^me too
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> "go report it somewhere else equally useless"
[02:06] <super__rad> yeah it did seem a bit pointless, but someone on ubuntu-bugs said to do that so thought I should follow their advice
[02:06] <JontheEchidna> Oh, and I would like to thank you for taking a look at the bugs. More hands is always better
[02:07] <super__rad> so from now on for kubuntu/kde wishlists just change status to confirmed (should I add a comment aswell?) and then just post it on #ubuntu-bugs for someone to set as wishlist?
[02:07] <super__rad> have no programming or packaging skills (plan to learn to package soon) so thought I could help out by trying to sort some of the mountain of bugs
[02:08] <JontheEchidna> that'd work
[02:08] <yuriy> super__rad: if you can tell it's not a Kubuntu specific bug, also report it to bugs.kde.org
[02:09] <yuriy> that's probably the most useful step
[02:09] <yuriy> super__rad: you know how to link to an upstream bug?
[02:10] <super__rad> ok, yeah it's just "also affects project" isn't it?
[02:11] <JontheEchidna> yeah, then there's a place to paste the bug link
[02:11] <yuriy> mhmm. thanks for working on it super__rad!
[02:11] <super__rad> no problem, only way I could help out with kubuntu at the moment as I have no other skills, want to learn packaging soon but missed the tutorial tonight
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: oh, here's a bug for userconfig
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> the show system accounts radio is off by default, but you can still see system accounts until you check/uncheck it
[02:13] <vorian> howd your class go JontheEchidna?
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> vorian: pretty well
[02:13] <vorian> coolio
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> super__rad: I could probably get you a log if they haven't made them available yet
[02:13] <super__rad> that would be great, thanks
[02:14] <vorian> super__rad: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[02:15] <JontheEchidna> irclogs.ubuntu.com to the rescue
[02:16] <super__rad> thanks, will have a read now
[02:16] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: also userconfig will allow you to change a username to start with a capital letter
[02:17] <yuriy> is that not legal?
[02:17] <yuriy> never tried, but that's not my code either
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> not according to adduser
[02:17] <yuriy> I should find the standard and improve that validator then
[02:17]  * JontheEchidna nods
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> thanks for the work, its looking good
[02:43] <yuriy> half the network settings in system settings should really be in an advanced section
[02:43] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[02:51] <yuriy> my bad can't keep those 4's straight
[02:58] <super__rad> JontheEchidna got right to the end then getting errors while trying to build http://pastebin.com/m529f792d
[03:08] <shtylman> Riddell: I was bouncing around a few ideas with pinheiro about the installer...we both agreed that if the installer was always fullscreen it would make it clean and clear what was happening as well as the "serious" nature of the process. Obviously once the install begins it would minimize and the user can play around...pinheiro also suggested to add an icon to the upper corner to minimize the installer at any point incase the
[03:08] <shtylman>  user wants to jump back to the system... I did a quick mockup (http://shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu_installer/ubiquity_idea2.png) and must say that I personally am warming to the idea...it puts the users focus on the installer while still giving them the option to minimize it. Likewise...I have added some things to the spec about small screen support because I know that will be an issue for us with netbooks. Ideas? Oh and a
[03:08] <shtylman>  final note...I think a kubuntu logo wouldn't hurt on the installer :) and other distros that rebrand could just replace the image file :)
[03:24] <shtylman> rgreening: how goes the usb creator? make you want to kill yourself yet ;p
[03:24] <rgreening> shtylman: It was pretty hairly today...
[03:24] <rgreening> hairy
[03:25] <rgreening> I junked the FS on my usb sticks multiple times today
[03:25] <rgreening> had to fdisk and mkfs manually to recover. lol
[03:25] <shtylman> damn...
[03:25] <rgreening> shtylman: but I am getting closer to ridding myself of gobject
[03:25] <shtylman> :)
[03:25] <rgreening> :P
[03:26] <shtylman> so you see the light at the end of the tunnel
[03:26] <rgreening> I won't pretend the code is pretty. It's definately not.
[03:26] <rgreening> ya
[03:26] <rgreening> ported code is always ugly
[03:26] <rgreening> :)
[03:26] <shtylman> if it works it works...cleanup can come later :)
[03:26] <rgreening> yeah...
[03:27] <rgreening> Well, it makes a successful boot stick :)
[03:28] <yuriy> rgreening: are you sure there isn't a gobject-qobject bridge out there already you can use?
[03:28] <rgreening> yuriy: if you can find one...
[03:29] <rgreening> but I'm pretty sure NO
[03:29] <rgreening> :P
[03:29] <yuriy> shtylman: wow, sleek mockup
[03:38] <shtylman> thanks...yea...I want to explore the idea of making the installer go fullscreen... with the option to minimize
[03:38] <shtylman> its a serious process that really don't take that long so it should require all of your focus for those few minutes...
[03:39] <rgreening> cool
[03:48] <yuriy> shtylman: maybe once it's actually installing, it can minimize to a small window or even something in the panel? that is, if we don't have a slideshow
[03:48] <shtylman> yuriy: indeed...that is the goal
[03:49] <yuriy> what if it was maximized instead of full screen?
[03:49] <yuriy> full screen and minimizable feels kind of old school windows installerish
[03:50] <yuriy> actually, nevermind
[03:50] <yuriy> because then it might as well just be a window on top of the background... which is kind of what your mockup is
[03:56] <shtylman> yuriy: yep...and yea...it may feel oldschool...but technically speaking you are about to perform serious operations to your local disks and whatnot... you should focus :) .. and that is also why we let you minimize it (that will be a very clear icon)
[03:57] <shtylman> the usage scenario is: II am installing a system (new user) and this thing needs to hold my hand and guide me through it with no other distractions while I do that.
[04:00] <ScottK> yuriy and JontheEchidna: What about seeding the Oxygen package in kubuntu-desktop.  Since in theory another icon set is possible, that way things aren't locked in.
[04:01] <yuriy> ScottK: that would break things for ubuntu/gnome users
[04:02] <ScottK> We don't fall back to Tango or something?
[04:02] <yuriy> seems not. does tango use xdg naming?
[04:02] <ScottK> No idea.
[04:02] <yuriy> if it does then something is wrong
[04:24] <ScottK> yuriy: I'd go for recommends.
[04:29] <yuriy> ScottK: makes sense
[05:52] <DaskreeCH> Tonio_: ping
[07:25] <nixternal> shtylman: the plasmoid is still stupid, but it connects to a PHP script on a server, and the PHP script is the smart portion of it and redirects the plasmoid to the correct survey. No more manual work needed :)
[07:25] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^ also check email, Alpha 2 is out :)
[07:26] <DaskreeCH> Which plasmoid?
[07:26] <nixternal> Kubuntu QA Feedback
[09:43] <sebas> Riddell: ping
[09:51] <freinhard> bug 359805 : update-notifier-kde failed because it couldn't allocate memory to run lsb_release. should that exception be caught?
[10:44] <Riddell> sebas: you pinged?
[11:45] <seaLne> Riddell: how stable would you say alpha2 is? would it be stable enough for using to run the PCs for the video recording at gcds? the dependancies for dvswitch in jaunty are broken so you can't even build it
[11:59] <Riddell> seaLne: it's pretty good, I don't have  any real problems
[12:00] <seaLne> good enough aswell that i could run on my laptop that i really need to be working for gcds?
[12:02] <seaLne> i guess there won't be a huge difference kdewise between running 4.3 on jaunty and karmic?
[12:02] <e-jat> Riddell: recently i discover my wireless cant connect well with the kdenetwork-manager .. it is my hardware problem or the kdenetwork-manager ..
[12:03] <e-jat> it happend to the AP which doesnt have key (security)
[12:05] <Riddell> seaLne: right
[12:05] <Riddell> e-jat: tried the plasma-widget-network-manager from jaunty-proposed?
[12:06] <e-jat> Riddell: in karmic
[12:06] <e-jat> im in karmic
[12:09] <Riddell> e-jat: hmm, you could  try compiling it from svn to see if it works better
[12:10] <Riddell> could try the network-manager-gnome nm-applet to see if that works
[12:13] <e-jat> ok thanks .. i need to try / double confirm with network-manager-gnome .. or it maybe course by the driver inside the new kernel ..
[12:15] <e-jat> Riddell: http://yfrog.com/e8plasmoidnetworkp
[12:16] <e-jat> the screenshot
[12:32] <e-jat> Riddell: hv u see the screenshot  ?
[12:40] <Riddell> yes, what am I looking for?
[12:56] <seele> shtylman: ping
[13:44] <ScottK> What packages do I need to install to get a good backtrace from Akregator?
[13:44] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[13:46] <Riddell> kdepim-dbg and/or akregator ddeb?
[13:54]  * ScottK tries.
[14:03]  * txwikinger_work has almost the maximum number of question marks on his screen
[14:38] <seaLne> well jaunty certainly dosen't dist-upgrade to karmic nicely atm
[14:39] <shtylman> seele: here
[14:42] <shtylman> Riddell: evand told me to poke you about approving (asking Rick for exception) the kubuntu ubiquity spec
[14:47] <seaLne> libqtscript4-* having conflicting files
[14:48] <ScottK> Riddell: The kubuntu-ayatana one still needs approving too.
[15:02] <neversfelde> oh, I can use kpackagekit, is it a new version?
[15:02] <Riddell> shtylman, ScottK: ok
[15:08] <seaLne> jaunty->karmic dist-upgrade wasn't all that bad actually apart from those conflicts, ignoring wireless not seeming to authenticate
[16:33] <rickspencer3> seele: hi
[16:33] <ScottK> seaLne: We'll want bugs on the conflicts so we can fix them.
[16:41] <rickspencer3> seele: can we discuss 100 paper cuts my afternoon, your late afternoon/evening?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> seele: I just want to know what I can do to help move it along for Kubuntu
[16:42] <rickspencer3> hi flacoste!
[16:42] <rickspencer3> everyone knows that Launchpad devs love Kubuntu, right?
[16:43] <shtylman> :)
[16:43] <DaskreeCH> <3
[16:52] <nixternal> hello my fellow kubunteers
[16:56] <DaskreeCH> hi
[16:57] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Love from proprietary software is generally unrequited love around here.
[16:57] <ScottK> ;-)
[16:58] <rickspencer3> ScottK: but they are working so hard on open sources it, as we speak
[16:58] <ScottK> rickspencer3: Partially
[16:59] <rickspencer3> I know, but still, we should be encouraging the progress, plus, we should encourage our users!
[16:59] <nixternal> rickspencer3: launchpad devs don't love anyone! they are evil and mean people :p   just kidding!
[16:59] <DaskreeCH> \o/
[16:59] <ScottK> Actually I viewed the announcement that it would be partially open sourced as a regression.  Previously it had at least appeared to me that all of it would eventually be released.
[17:00] <DaskreeCH> ScottK: based on what ?
[17:00] <nixternal> it is great having a weather radio, but when the alarm goes off waking you up for a tornado warning for some place you haven't even heard of it, then there is a problem
[17:00] <ScottK> DaskreeCH: Based on the bug against Launchpad and the comments in it.
[17:00] <ScottK> nixternal: Problem with the alert area or problem with your knowledge of geography?
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> It seems we have been unobservant. Debian changed the plasma-widget-network-manager package to plasma-widget-networkmanagement since January
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> which means we'll have to transition to a new package. Again
[17:01] <ScottK> It might do to ask if they are done changing the name.
[17:01]  * ScottK heads out ...
[17:01] <DaskreeCH> oh someone was asking about the kwin record desktop plugin. Is that a kde default plugin?
[17:01] <nixternal> ScottK: both
[17:01] <nixternal> they said some town that I had never heard of
[17:02] <nixternal> but recently, I have found out new towns that are within a 10 mile radius of me that I never heard of before, and I have lived here for 30+ years now
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> DaskreeCH: KDE removed it since it was too buggy
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> as of KDE 4.2 iirc
[17:02] <DaskreeCH> JontheEchidna: Removed to work on or just dropped the idea ?
[17:02] <JontheEchidna> the source is totally gone from svn
[17:03] <DaskreeCH> !info krecordmydesktop hardy
[17:03] <DaskreeCH> !info krecordmydesktop intrepid
[17:04] <DaskreeCH> !info krecordmydesktop
[17:04] <DaskreeCH> :-(
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, well that's totally different. I was talking about the kwin video record "effect"
[17:04] <DaskreeCH> Yes I know but I'm saying that we are progressively running out of ways to record the desktop it seems
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> krecordmydesktop: (Reason: (From Debian) RoQA; obsolete for KDE 4, orphaned, RC-buggy)
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> :(
[17:06] <DaskreeCH> at least basket k3b and kmymoney are back \o/
[17:08] <DaskreeCH_> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Norwegian-Girl-Survives-Being-Dragged-Under-Car-For-More-Than-Two-Miles-Near-Oslo/Article/200906315312523?f=rss
[17:12] <shtylman> anyone that wants to try out my kubuntu ubiquity mockups: bzr branch lp:~shtylman/+junk/kubuntu_ubiquity_overhaul
[17:12] <shtylman> seele, Riddell: ^
[17:14] <DaskreeCH_> rickspencer3: how many cuts are we aiming for?
[17:15] <shtylman> 99.9999 ... we had some rounding errors :)
[17:15] <rickspencer3> DaskreeCH: this comes up with the whole project ...
[17:15] <rickspencer3> to me, in this context, "100" is a concept, not a target
[17:15] <rickspencer3> it's more important to me to have a list of good bugs, than a list of some certain size
[17:16] <rickspencer3> so I wouldn't shoot for a number, if it were me
[17:16] <DaskreeCH_> So just fill the truck?
[18:01] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: looks awesome
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> with a few tweaks (uncommenting some code, turning on desktop effects, setting the wallpaper) I got this: http://imagebin.ca/view/1aQkc-S.html
[18:03] <Riddell> I loaded JontheEchidna's link and for some reason clicked on "Previous", which wasn't the most sensible thing to do
[18:04] <Riddell> shtylman: are you running a live CD by any chance, would you know a file I can use to check if an app is running from a live CD?
[18:11] <lex79> Riddell: have you seen my problem with membership? Alessandro Ghersi member since 2008-02-21
[18:15] <seele> shtylman: hmm.. have a link to a pdf or pngs or something?
[18:16] <seele> rickspencer3-afk: hey.. got back from some meetings. i will be around all afternoon to chat
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> seele: I haz screenshot http://imagebin.ca/view/1aQkc-S.html
[18:16] <seele> JontheEchidna: <3
[18:17] <Riddell> lex79: how strange.  it shouldn't cause any problems though
[18:19] <lex79> Riddell: the problem is the membership expire 2010-02-20 instead 2011-06-16  :)
[18:20] <e-jat> Riddell:  http://imagebin.ca/view/fwy70q7.html
[18:20] <e-jat> Unknown Network should be the ZyXEL AP
[18:22] <Riddell> lex79: you can just renew it
[18:22] <lex79> ok
[18:23] <seele> hrm..
[18:24] <DaskreeCH_> JontheEchidna: Wow. What's that written in?
[18:24] <Riddell> Qt
[18:25] <DaskreeCH_> \o/
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> DaskreeCH_: shtylman did it
[18:27] <DaskreeCH_> I saw. I just didn't see it :)
[18:28] <e-jat> can some help me with the screenshot i posted... why ZyXEL not in the list but i connected to it ..
[18:32] <Riddell> because network manager plasmoid is more buggy than an ant hill
[18:34] <DaskreeCH_> has anyone hit the bug where after you switch Desktops he Keyboard dies?
[18:34] <DaskreeCH_> the
[18:35] <Riddell> not I
[18:36] <DaskreeCH_> I think I figured out a work around
[18:36] <nixternal> 12:03:37 [   Riddell] I loaded JontheEchidna's link and for some reason clicked on "Previous", which wasn't the most sensible thing to do
[18:36] <nixternal> I just fell out of my damn chair!!!
[18:37] <DaskreeCH_> You decided to ignore the senisble advice and do the insensible?
[18:39] <DaskreeCH_> Hmm Choqok kills plasma for me everytime it checks the network
[18:42] <lex79> JontheEchidna: have you started with merge digikam?
[18:43] <JontheEchidna> lex79: nope, working on networkmanager plasmoid atm
[18:43] <lex79> ok, I'll do it
[19:08] <JontheEchidna> It'd be awesome if karmic could look like so: http://imagebin.ca/view/63lasZ.html
[19:11] <rgreening> I think akonadi is causing system lag for plasma, or maybe it was kopete or Kontact. Plasma was at 100%, killed Kontact, saw it go to 9999%, then killed Kopete and it crashed and I saw akonadi go to 9999%. I stopped akonadi server and all has returned to normal...
[19:14] <rgreening> hmm.. nope, plasma is back to 100%..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[19:26] <seele> argh
[19:27] <seele> i dont understand how to assign stuff to hundredpapercuts
[19:28] <seele> when i click on assign-to and search for hundredpapercuts it doesnt show up
[19:33] <seele> nevermind, got help
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: speaking of networkmangler, could you offer some core-dev/archive admin assistance? I have a merge of the plasmoid from debian, but its got a different name so it'd need to be NEW'd and put in main
[19:35] <JontheEchidna> debian-to-merged.diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/199488/
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> If the merge meets the approval of your core-dev hat, I can upload
[20:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: approved!
[20:03] <lex79> Riddell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/digikam/+bug/389613
[20:07] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: uploaded, if you could push that and kcm-gtk through new that'd be grand
[20:11] <seele> rickspencer3: i blogged about people participating in kubuntu papercuts and started an idea page to turn into some bugs
[20:11] <seele> rickspencer3: not sure what i should do besides try to get some bugs registered to hundredpapercuts
[20:12] <rickspencer3> seele: ok
[20:12] <rickspencer3> I'm meeting with someone right now
[20:12] <rickspencer3> can you paste me a link and I can check it out after lunch?
[20:13] <seele> rickspencer3: http://weblog.obso1337.org/2009/100-papercuts-and-kubuntu/
[20:13] <seele> rickspencer3: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/seele/KarmicPapercuts
[20:16] <smarter> Make desktop cashew menu appear on hover instead of click. it disappears on blur and not click so the interactions don't match
[20:16] <smarter> what do you mean by "disappears on blur"?
[20:19] <GibsonGuy> I heard all the best kubuntu people are here and someone might know what I can try to get an install working
[20:20] <Riddell> GibsonGuy: our support dudes are in #kubuntu
[20:20] <GibsonGuy> ah, ok thanks
[20:24] <Mamarok> Riddell: he is the jukebox guy from Gibson :)
[20:24] <Mamarok> and a dev, starting on Linux
[20:24] <nixternal> Riddell: hey, working on some QA stuff, mind if I create a bzr branch under ~kubuntu-members for 'kubuntu-qa-tools' ?
[20:24] <nixternal> I will put all of the scripts and yummies there as well as the plasmoid stuff
[20:25] <Riddell> nixternal: sure go ahead
[20:25] <nixternal> go go go!
[20:26] <Riddell> "digikam.install: add /usr/bin/cleanup_digikamdb"  lex79 what is that?
[20:26] <Riddell> and why doesn't debian want it?
[20:29] <lex79> dunno, I think is for cleaning digikam database, I thought debian has forgotten to include it in digikam.install
[20:30] <lex79> I can remove if it is necessary
[20:30] <Riddell> lex79: I expect we want it, but could you check with the debian package if that's the case?
[20:30] <Riddell> I'll upload now though
[20:31] <lex79> Riddell: ok, I will check
[20:40] <Riddell> lex79: uploaded!
[20:40] <nixternal> are there any python plasmoids in the repos yet?
[20:40] <lex79> thanks
[20:40] <Riddell> nixternal: not that I know of
[20:40] <lex79> I think not
[20:41] <nixternal> heh, wonder what the perferred dir structure would be for one
[20:43] <lex79> Riddell: in debian experimental there is ktorrent 3.3~svn, can I merge? or we wait 3.3 stable ?
[20:44] <lex79> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/ktorrent/current/changelog
[20:44] <Riddell> lex79: hmm, probably better to wait for an upstream release?  random svn snapshots may lead to random problems unless there's a paticular reason we want it
[20:45] <lex79> true...
[20:47] <Riddell> Mamarok: know if anyone has tried amarok 2.1.1 from backports?
[20:48] <Mamarok> Riddell: we already had some bug reports :)
[20:49] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how do I add a sidebar like in your plasma screenshot?
[20:50] <Mamarok> and it installed correctly so far, we still have that crash on first start bug though, for some users
[20:51] <jjesse> Riddell: i've had no problems with 2.1.1 from backports
[20:51] <jjesse> running fine for me
[20:51] <jjesse> running jaunty amd-64
[20:52] <Mamarok> well, the crash on first start is only happening to people who already have a db, so it's probably database related, much WIP right now anyway in trunk
[20:52] <Mamarok> and even then, not to everybody
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: add a panel and make it wide enough for plasmoids not to show up as icons
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> then set it to autohide
[20:56] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how do you add a panel?
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> right click on desktop -> add panel
[21:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: oh aye, there it is
[21:01] <Riddell> bit cluky all that panel setup
[21:01] <Riddell> and autohide could do with some animation
[21:03] <Riddell> and it really is hidden, could do with some clue that it's there
[21:16] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: kcm-gtk accepted, going to add to the seeds?
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: needs mir first, I think
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> unless its simple enough not to need one?
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> It was real easy to write one up for, anyway: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKcmGtk
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> but it looks like its in main :)
[21:29] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: it's already been in main as part of qtcurve
[21:29] <Riddell> part of gtk-qt-engine rather
[21:29] <JontheEchidna> true
[21:29] <Riddell> so no need
[21:30] <Riddell> Mamarok, Nightrose: what is sven423's name?
[21:31] <JontheEchidna> It'd be easier if a core-dev added it to the seed since only core-dev can commit to the seed branch
[21:31] <JontheEchidna> I should start on a core-dev app soon I suppose
[21:32] <Riddell> good point
[21:36] <nixternal> Riddell: I just did what was done for kubuntu-dev-tools, created a new project (kubuntu-qa-tools) and make kubuntu-members the maintainer...as I am hoping in the future this becomes as populate as the -dev-tools :)
[21:37] <Riddell> groovy
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> hum, the "report bug" menu item doesn't work in dolphin
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> or akte
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> *kate
[21:41] <yuriy> nixternal: ^
[21:43] <nixternal> heh
[21:43] <nixternal> go figure
[21:43] <nixternal> it works here
[21:43] <nixternal> just tested it in dolphin
[21:44] <nixternal> opened up apport and did its scan/test, and presented me with the ability to send off a bug report
[21:44] <nixternal> just tested in kate as well and it works
[21:45] <Riddell> nixternal: testing your patch or the one in the archive?
[21:45] <nixternal> I just created/edited/copied the code without even testing it, made a patch, and implemented it....no QA whatsoever on it, except a test build...I knew it would work and threw all caution to the wind ;p
[21:46] <nixternal> the one that installed recently on my computer from the archive
[21:46] <nixternal> 4.2.90-0ubuntu3
[21:46] <nixternal> kdelibs5
[21:46] <nixternal> that doesn't sound right though
[21:51] <nixternal> anyone else having issues with the "Report Bug..." feature in KDE apps?
[21:52] <ryanakca> nixternal: Ping, how's help.kubuntu.org comming along? Put on the backburner for now or ?
[21:52] <nixternal> ya, need to add it to my todo list for docs....i will get it done, i swear to it :)
[21:53] <nixternal> not back burner, as I need to get the docs rolling, so maybe sooner than the backburner
[21:53] <ryanakca> nixternal: OK, great :)
[21:53] <nixternal> its nice having a bunch of packagers around now, I can work on development stuff now :)
[22:05] <rgreening> +1 nixternal
[22:05] <rgreening> :)
[22:06] <rgreening> anyone want to see if akonadi is a cpu killer for plasma?
[22:07] <rgreening> when I open kopete/kontact, akonadi server starts and some time after plasma-desktop cpu usage goes bonkers
[22:07] <Nightrose> Riddell: Sven Krohlas
[22:11] <Riddell> thanks
[22:44] <rickspencer3> seele: I think the list of paper cuts you already have is sufficient, so I think you are well on your way
[23:07] <Mamarok> Riddell: Sven Krohlas
[23:09] <rickspencer3> hi djsiegel1
[23:09] <rickspencer3> seele: ??
[23:09] <djsiegel1> hey rickspencer3
[23:09] <djsiegel1> seele: let's talk paper cuts when you have a moment
[23:10] <rickspencer3> we were discussing the merits of a single unified launchpad project, versus one for Kubuntu and one for Ubuntu
[23:10] <rickspencer3> I like the single project because of what it implies for teamwork, but I like the separate ones for the managability
[23:10] <djsiegel1> rickspencer3: did you see my proposed name, "hundredpaperkuts", on seele's blog?
[23:10] <djsiegel1> rickspencer3: clever, huh?
[23:10] <rickspencer3> haha
[23:10] <rickspencer3> kundred
[23:11] <djsiegel1> ha
[23:11] <rickspencer3> let's see rgreening, Nightrose, Riddell, thoughts? ^^^
[23:11] <djsiegel1> we could do hundredpaperguts and hundredpaperkuts to be fair
[23:12] <Nightrose> rickspencer3: kde is trying to get away fromt he k thingy ;-)
[23:12] <rickspencer3> Nightrose: ok
[23:12] <Nightrose> so no for that from me
[23:12] <rickspencer3> but, what do you think of having a Kubuntu paper cuts launchpad project next to the Ubuntu one
[23:12] <rickspencer3> but reporting on them simultaneously
[23:12] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:13] <Nightrose> sounds fine to me
[23:13] <rickspencer3> (without the cute "k" thing)
[23:13] <Nightrose> hehe
[23:13] <rickspencer3> well, given that it is Friday night on the East Coast, I assume that's all we'll get out of this discussion today :)
[23:14] <rickspencer3> thanks djsiegel1 and Nightrose
[23:14] <rickspencer3> nixternal:  ^^^ thoughts?
[23:14] <djsiegel1> yes, the 'k' thing was a joke :)
[23:14] <Nightrose> it's friday night in europe too :D
[23:14] <djsiegel1> wtf, it's Wednesday here
[23:15]  * Nightrose doesn't believe djsiegel1
[23:15] <djsiegel1> hahaha
[23:15] <djsiegel1> I have been filing paper cuts for too long
[23:19] <dtchen> ah, so that's why my inbox blew up this week.
[23:35] <seele> rickspencer3: pong
[23:35] <seele> djsiegel1: pong
[23:36] <seele> djsiegel1: i almost entitled the blog post 100 paperkuts  ;)
[23:37] <rickspencer3> seele: did you see the discussion regarding launchpad projects?
[23:37] <Nightrose> seele: hey :)  you wanted to talk about how to get the word out to users
[23:37] <seele> rickspencer3: yes, the question was if it should be the same or a separate project?
[23:37] <rickspencer3> right
[23:37] <Nightrose> seele: i think<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and the forum are your best bet
[23:37] <seele> Nightrose: kk
[23:38] <Nightrose> seele: and the kubuntu users list
[23:38] <rickspencer3> seele: I think djsiegel1 would prefer two projects, as it would make his work for the Ubuntu paper cuts easier
[23:38] <Nightrose> the kde forum guys will likely be happy to help with an announcement there
[23:38] <seele> rickspencer3: yeah, i guess. i'll take whatever i can get
[23:38] <Nightrose> they are in #kde-forum
[23:38] <rickspencer3> but he is amenable to combining if there is a strong sentiment that they should be
[23:38] <seele> rickspencer3: i would still prefer to be part of the original project to show unity with ubuntu
[23:38] <seele> otherwise it just looks like a cheap spinoff
[23:38] <seele> and not official
[23:38] <rickspencer3> seele: right
[23:39] <seele> Nightrose: ok thanks, i'll hop in there in a few minutes
[23:39] <rickspencer3> oth if they are separate, the kubuntu one can have it's own branding a bit, and working with the bugs will be easier
[23:40] <seele> i guess.. but ubuntu already got the press for it
[23:40] <rickspencer3> mm
[23:40] <seele> they were talking about it on utest for heaven's sake
[23:40] <djsiegel1> I don't think combining them in one launchpad project is going to make them appear divided.
[23:40] <djsiegel1> What is utest?
[23:40] <seele> djsiegel1: stuffy usability testing listserv full of human factors engineers
[23:40] <djsiegel1> We just need to blog about them as one effort.
[23:41] <rickspencer3> seele: what were they saying about it?
[23:41] <seele> rickspencer3: there was a discussion of what a "papercut" was and the dangers of trying ti fix "small" issues with small fixes when small issues may take a lot of time and consideration
[23:42] <seele> so the tradeoff of slapping a bandaid on a design problem versus really fixing it i guess
[23:42] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:42] <djsiegel1> Well, we are "really fixing them"
[23:42] <djsiegel1> many of these issues have not made progress in years
[23:42] <seele> djsiegel1: i dont understand your comment. i think putting them in one project would make them look unified. did you mean separate projects?
[23:42] <rickspencer3> so in other words, get bound up in analysis to the degree that you don't have to take accountability for any actual deciscions
[23:42] <rickspencer3> ;)
[23:42] <djsiegel1> no, we are using the word "project" loosely
[23:42] <seele> rickspencer3: well.. i think they just had no clue what was really going on and talking for the sake of it
[23:43] <djsiegel1> They should be one project, with shared principals and goals and timelines
[23:43] <rickspencer3> right, I think the next thing to figure out is launchpad implementation
[23:43] <seele> rickspencer3: but they did have a point of "real fix" versus bandaid. we've had the problem in kde where people only look at one layer of the problem and don't realise the underlying problem
[23:43] <djsiegel1> for example, next friday's milestone will have to halves
[23:43] <djsiegel1> 10 ubuntu papercuts, 10 kubuntu papercuts
[23:43] <djsiegel1> we may throttle down to 8/week
[23:44] <seele> djsiegel1: 10 papercuts fixed? or identified?
[23:44] <djsiegel1> Fixed
[23:44] <djsiegel1> If we are going to deliver 100 for karmic, we need to begin fixing now
[23:44] <djsiegel1> we have 60-80 identified
[23:44] <seele> i dont think we have the man power to keep up with ubuntu. aurelian is the only one i know who could work on stuff from the canonical side and i dont even know if he is availabe to us
[23:44] <seele> djsiegel1: right, well the other issue of having a seperate tally for kubuntu is that i dont think we can fix 100 papercuts
[23:44] <djsiegel1> ok
[23:45] <djsiegel1> so, what do you propose?
[23:45] <seele> that's why i would rather contribute to the ubuntu tally
[23:45] <djsiegel1> so, you guys do 20, we do 80?
[23:45] <seele> djsiegel1: that sounds excellent
[23:45] <djsiegel1> I don't know how we will define the split.
[23:45] <djsiegel1> Hmm.
[23:45] <seele> and it can be a soft number if you want more and we cant deliver
[23:45] <rickspencer3> does it have to be a quota system?
[23:46] <seele> rickspencer3: as in a hard number? or that only 100 papercuts are done for karmic?
[23:46] <nixternal> NO I WANT 100 PAPER KUTS! I am still an old school KDE'er now, more than 10 years and counting! Gimme my 'K' :p
[23:46]  * rickspencer3 kicks nixternal
[23:46] <nixternal> yay, more tornados on the way...god I love Chicago
[23:46] <seele> nixternal: do you have C++ skillz to contribute? :P
[23:47]  * Nightrose steals nixternal's K
[23:47] <nixternal> I hope so
[23:47] <nixternal> what am I contributing to?
[23:47] <seele> nixternal: fixing a 100 paperKuts ;P
[23:47] <nixternal> besidens insanity
[23:47] <rickspencer3> I was thinking more like Kubuntu would put in the bugs they have, and then ew see where it shakes out
[23:47] <nixternal> seele: I thought we get future contribs to do it
[23:47] <djsiegel1> ha, you guys code in C++ so one person should be able to fix as many paper cuts as 20 C hackers working on Ubuntu paper cuts :)
[23:47] <rickspencer3> but I have the feeling that djsiegel1 needs it more tightly managed than that
[23:47] <nixternal> seele: actually paper kuts are small, easy fixes I thought
[23:48] <rickspencer3> well, they'll fix one paper cut in the base class, and the rest of the paper cuts will get fixed automatically
[23:48] <dtchen> nixternal: well, yes. properly tagged ones.
[23:48] <rickspencer3> but it will take them 5 years to define the base class fix
[23:48] <nixternal> gotta love kdelibs :)
[23:48] <seele> rickspencer3: well if i have a hard target, then i can bother people to get stuff done
[23:48] <seele> if it is soft, then it might be harder to get people to commit
[23:48] <rickspencer3> hmm
[23:48] <djsiegel1> so, the problem is, Ubuntu can fix 100
[23:48] <nixternal> seele: I would be down, pick a paperKut, and start assigning them to people :)
[23:48] <rickspencer3> okay, I am concerned that we will complicate the Ubuntu project too much if we mingle them on launchpad
[23:48] <nixternal> leave some low-hanging fruit ones to attract new contributors
[23:48] <djsiegel1> I don't like eating away at those because Kubuntu can't keep pace -- no fault of their own
[23:49] <seele> rickspencer3: part of the community draw is that a lot of kubuntu stuff goes upstream. so i could find people outside kubuntu to submit patches for karmic because they would eventually end back upstream
[23:49] <rickspencer3> and I think the design team likes the "big round number" effect
[23:49] <djsiegel1> Why not leave 100 for ubuntu, and have different number for kubuntu?
[23:50] <seele> eh, i guess. i have no idea how to calculate that number since i dont manage the single canonical kde developer
[23:50] <djsiegel1> It doesn't make sense to not maximize potential to fix ubuntu papercuts.
[23:50] <rickspencer3> perhaps Kubuntu could do it for a different and shorter period of time
[23:50] <rickspencer3> like get as many kubuntu bugs as you can, then go for 10 a week until they are done
[23:50] <rickspencer3> djsiegel1: right, I agree
[23:51] <seele> it's not the same program :(
[23:51] <rickspencer3> we shouldn't fix n bugs in Kubuntu *instead* of in Ubuntu
[23:51] <djsiegel1> right
[23:51] <rickspencer3> but can't we fix more than 100?
[23:51] <djsiegel1> eh
[23:51] <djsiegel1> 100 is still feeling pretty good
[23:51] <rickspencer3> I always thought of "100" as more of a concept than a hard target
[23:51] <djsiegel1> this next week will tell us a lot
[23:52] <djsiegel1> I we can make 100, I will be very happy
[23:52] <rickspencer3> so how about this:
[23:52] <nixternal> think it is time to go storm chasing...gonna hop on the bicycle and ride :p
[23:52] <rickspencer3> 1. we get Kubuntu bugs into the same launchpad project
[23:52] <rickspencer3> 2. seele triages from Ux pov
[23:52] <rickspencer3> 3. every week 10 Ubuntu bugs and x Kubuntu bugs are picked for that week as a target
[23:53] <rickspencer3> 4. Every week a post about the success is made jointly
[23:53] <djsiegel1> What about have 10 bugs each week for 10 weeks
[23:53] <rickspencer3> djsiegel1: would that be too weak in terms of your "100" concept?
[23:53] <djsiegel1> and we intersperse "kubuntu papercut weeks"
[23:53] <rickspencer3> tell me more
[23:53] <djsiegel1> 2, 3, 4 of them, depending on how kubuntu can ramp up
[23:54] <rickspencer3> but wouldn't that be replacing Ubuntu bugs?
[23:54] <djsiegel1> No, I mean, ubuntu will still do 10 weeks
[23:54] <rickspencer3> personally, I think if we say that we fixed 100 paper cuts between both projects ... that would be a hug success
[23:54] <djsiegel1> 10 10-bug milestones
[23:55] <djsiegel1> but some weeks, we do a kde 10-bug milestone instead
[23:55] <rickspencer3> and then some weeks there would 10 + n where n are the Kubuntu bugs for that week?
[23:55] <djsiegel1> or some weeks we do both
[23:55] <rickspencer3> so if we do 2 Kubuntu weeks, that would 20 Kubuntu paper cuts, and 80 Ubuntu paper cuts
[23:55] <djsiegel1> I think we should always keep it ten -- I don't want people to think "Ubuntu did 10, Kubuntu got 4, so Ubuntu is 2.5x better"
[23:55] <rickspencer3> which would be a *huge* success
[23:55] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:56] <rickspencer3> aaah!
[23:56] <djsiegel1> yes, that would still be a great success, but I am saying that kubuntu papercut weeks are in addition to ubuntu papercut weeks
[23:56] <rickspencer3> so 12 weeks total?
[23:56] <djsiegel1> yes, some concurrent
[23:56] <djsiegel1> 12 person-weeks :)
[23:56] <rickspencer3> so there would be 20 some week, because it's a "Kubuntu" week
[23:56] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:56] <djsiegel1> ruight
[23:56] <djsiegel1> right*
[23:56] <rickspencer3> seele: thoughts?
[23:57] <seele> rickspencer3: i'm sorry but i did not follow that
[23:57] <djsiegel1> so every third week, kubuntu would heal ten papercuts
[23:57] <djsiegel1> that week would be a double feature
[23:57] <djsiegel1> at the end of the week, we would cover both projects
[23:57] <rickspencer3> I am so late to go pick up my daughter!
[23:57] <djsiegel1> go!
[23:57]  * rickspencer3 is in big trouble
[23:57] <rickspencer3> gots to run
[23:57] <seele> is aurelian a guaranteed resource or no?
[23:58] <djsiegel1> seele: what does that mean? I am not his manager
[23:58] <seele> aurelian is the canonical kde developer, i'm asking if he would be available to help. if not, i dont know if we could fix 3.3 bugs per week because we don't have that many kde developers involved in kubuntu
[23:58] <djsiegel1> right
[23:59] <seele> Riddell is also possible, but he does more distro stuff i think