[00:49] <tolecnal> hmmm, I'm very close to solving this now.. set up a local repository, now to make pbuilder actually use them
[01:22] <tolecnal> sooo close - but for some reason mini-dinstall isn't pulling in my generated *-dev files
[01:23] <tolecnal> and as such, pbuilder is failing its dependecy checks
[01:30] <tolecnal> nothing in the 'REJECT' folder, nor does the mini-dinstall folder mention anything about the dev files either
[01:40] <tolecnal> s/mini-dinstall folder/mini-dinstall log file/
[01:47] <dobey> tolecnal: i think maybe you want #ubuntu-packaging instead. this channel is for help with launchpad itself, not general packaging problems.
[02:04] <tolecnal> dobey: right, I'll give that a go tomorrow - way too late now :) thanks.
[15:47] <echappa> hello


[00:52] <crimsun> ari-tczew: the debian-ubuntu debdiff that you attached to #685345 is for fetchmail, not j-a-c-k.
[00:53] <ari-tczew> crimsun: ah, late time... I'm on it
[00:55] <ari-tczew> crimsun: fixed. wanna sponsor?
[01:05] <crimsun> ari-tczew: uploaded, thanks!
[01:05] <ari-tczew> crimsun: np. wanna sponsor also fetchmail? (:
[01:06] <crimsun> bug # ?
[01:07] <ari-tczew> crimsun: bug 685065
[01:18] <crimsun> ari-tczew: uploaded, thanks!
[01:18] <ari-tczew> crimsun: np, thanks me too
[04:04] <ianm_1> anyone interested in helping package up a ruby app this evening?
[05:37] <ssj6akshat> I submitted a patch using submittodebian tool
[05:37] <ssj6akshat> how do I confirm it has reached the BTS?
[05:37] <micahg> ssj6akshat: you should get an email?
[05:38] <ssj6akshat> micahg, in how much time?
[05:38] <micahg> ssj6akshat: a couple hours
[05:39]  * ssj6akshat doesn't like to wait
[05:39] <micahg> ssj6akshat: patience is very important :)
[05:39] <ssj6akshat> should I add the patch to the launchpad bug as well?
[05:40] <micahg> ssj6akshat: if you're using submittodebian I assume it's already been fixed in natty?
[05:46] <ssj6akshat> micahg, ah well, here is the debdiff http://paste.ubuntu.com/539895/
[05:47] <ssj6akshat> bug #602671
[05:49] <micahg> ssj6akshat: first, you should target to natty instead of maverick, after that, yes you should attach it, also, I would think type of bug the change should be approved before forwarding
[05:50] <ssj6akshat> micahg, whoops it should be natty
[05:52]  * ssj6akshat spent a whole day learning how to fix this
[06:07] <micahg> ssj6akshat: please link the Debian bug when you have it
[06:08] <ssj6akshat> ok
[06:09] <micahg> ssj6akshat: also, see my comment in teh bug, your patch is lacking something that's in the current description
[06:13] <ssj6akshat> micahg, I do not understand what you said in the bug
[06:14] <micahg> ssj6akshat: the description explains why you should install p7zip instead of p7zip-full
[06:27] <micahg> ssj6akshat: also, I think you misunderstood what the 2 sections in the description were for, the first paragraph was explaining what the current package does, the second about the alternative
[06:36] <ssj6akshat> micahg, p7zip doesn't appear in software center but rather p7zip-full does
[06:36] <micahg> ssj6akshat: they should both be available
[06:45] <vish> micahg: it's hidden as a technical item..
[06:45] <micahg> vish: but it's not
[06:45] <vish> hmm.. /me not sure about that, maybe thats another bug we need to get fixed..
[06:46] <vish> seems someone decided p7zip-full is better than confusing users with too many options..
[06:46] <micahg> vish: it's for people that only need 7zip archives and not the rest
[06:47]  * micahg is not in favor of hiding things
[06:47] <vish> right, but the person needs to be technical enough to realize he will not ever need any of the other archive types. ;)
[06:47] <micahg> vish: also, we can't change the description just to look good in SC, it has to reflect the nature of the packages as well
[06:48] <ssj6akshat> micahg, software center shows Version:9.04~dfsg.1-1 (p7zip-full) for 7zip
[06:48] <vish> micahg: yea, but what are we missing there? (which does not reflect good on the package)
[06:49] <micahg> vish: I commented in the bug on that, the current description shows what is in teh pacakge and what the other one does
[06:49]  * vish confused, reads comment again..
[06:51] <micahg> vish: p7zip explains what p7zip is and why you might want p7zip-full, p7zip-full does the opposite
[06:52] <vish> micahg: we are changing only the description for p7zip-full.. not touching p7zip now, since its hidden
[06:52] <micahg> vish: right, but you need to keep the explanation of what the 2 packages are
[06:53] <vish> oh are you saying that the description needs to mention '-full' ?
[06:53] <micahg> vish: it's fine to clarify points in the description
[06:53] <micahg> vish: yes, and also a short summary of p7zip like the current description
[06:59] <vish> micahg: i dont see why the user needs to know it is the -full , the package title itself is "7zip", the -full part is just a package details/packaging technicality . why bother the user with that? is it going to harm them?  rather if this was a limited package then i see the need for stressing that "this package is $foo and no such options are here, look at the other $bar"
[06:59] <micahg> vish: because this description has to work for both distros
[07:00] <vish> micahg: why would it be wrong in any other distro?
[07:00] <vish> we just treat the p7zip-full package as the main package, just like there is only one 7zip
[07:00] <micahg> vish: right, but we can't do that since it's not and the description needs to work for cli users in Debian and Ubuntu as well
[07:02] <vish> micahg: maybe i'm not understanding something here, why is it not the main package? is there any other main p7zip package?
[07:02] <vish> for cli it does mention "Additionally, it provides you with the 7z and 7za commands at the command line."
[07:02] <micahg> vish: it's not about main vs not main, there's the full version and the one with just the 7z utils
[07:03] <vish> micahg: p7zip is the one with just the utils?
[07:04] <micahg> vish: yes
[07:09] <vish> micahg: so would "Complete list of supported formats handled in p7zip-full:" be better?
[07:10] <micahg> vish: yes, and also, we should keep the short description of p7zip
[07:11] <vish> micahg: you mean this last line? "p7zip provides 7zr, a light version of 7za, and p7zip a gzip like wrapper around 7zr.""
[07:11] <micahg> vish: yes
[07:14] <vish>  nah.. then that just ends up being confusing. and user will wonder what is difference between p7zip and p7zip-full, rather we can probably make it better in the p7zip description
[07:14] <micahg> vish: it's common for descriptions to list alternative choices when appropriate, I don't think the Debian maintainer will drop it
[07:15] <vish> micahg: well, let's try first.. :)
[07:16] <vish> oh i so wish that they would just publish the SC usability testing data.. would save a lot of explaining :)
[07:16] <vish> debian folks are too adamant at times :(
[07:16]  * vish hides
[07:16] <micahg> vish: SC is not the only package interface
[07:16] <micahg> vish: that's what I was trying to explain before
[07:17] <vish> micahg: yea.. but still for whom are such packages meant for?
[07:17] <micahg> vish: anyone
[07:17] <vish> micahg: remember we are not trying to fix every description out there. :)
[07:18] <vish>  and everyone needs to understand. and not get confused.
[07:19] <micahg> vish: yes, but you have to balance the casual user with the technical user
[07:19] <vish> yup..
[07:19] <micahg> and we can't hijack Debian's description because it's better for our users, we can enhance the description to make things clearer
[07:19] <vish> hehe! ;)
[07:20] <vish> micahg: no one said we would hijack, first we send them a description, if they are OK, we use it..
[07:20] <vish> else we tweak
[07:21] <micahg> vish: I'd rather send one they're less likely to reject, but c'est la vie
[07:21] <vish> ;)
[07:49] <spaceboy> Hi guys
[07:49] <spaceboy> I noticed the packaging channel doesn't have a lot of activity.  Should I just ask packaging questions in this channel instead?
[07:50] <micahg> spaceboy: well, it's the weekend, so it's a little slow, but I didn't see any questions there in the last several hours
[08:56] <MTecknology> What was the dh tool for editing the changelog?
[08:57] <c2tarun> MTecknology: i think its "dch -i"
[08:57] <c2tarun> try it
[08:57] <MTecknology> thanks
[08:57] <MTecknology> hm.. it doesn't like me
[08:58] <MTecknology> it doesn't like that the upper level isn't the version number
[08:58] <MTecknology> looks like dch -e changelog 'should' work but it still complains
[08:59] <MTecknology> dch: fatal error at line 616:  Found debian/changelog for package nginx in the directory  /home/builder/collab-nginx/trunk  but this directory name does not match the package name according to the  regex  PACKAGE(-.+)?.
[08:59] <micahg> MTecknology: to edit the current entry, use dch if it's your first time editing, or dch -e if you've edited it before, use dch -i to add a new entry on top
[09:01] <MTecknology> micahg: I tried -e to edit an existing entry but got the same error
[09:02] <MTecknology> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/539919/
[09:02] <micahg> MTecknology: no, in the trunk dir run dch -e
[09:03] <MTecknology> oh!
[09:03] <micahg> or dch if you're not the one in the changelog entry
[09:11] <MTecknology> thanks :)
[09:55] <micahg> ricotz: why aren't you in uploaders for docky?
[09:55] <micahg> or can you not upload?
[09:56] <ricotz> micahg, i cant upload
[09:56] <micahg> ricotz: I'm test building your sync request now BTW
[09:56] <ricotz> micahg, thanks
[11:13] <ricotz> micahg, arent you going to upload docky?
[11:13] <Laney> why upload it if it's a sync?
[11:14] <ricotz> Laney, i mean sync ;)
[11:14] <Laney> it will get processed by an archive admin as normal
[11:14] <Laney> micahg: you did forget to subscribe ubuntu-archive though
[11:15] <Laney> done
[11:15] <ricotz> Laney, ok, that would have been my next question
[11:16] <ricotz> Laney, thx
[11:16] <geser> Laney: while you are here: do you have an idea what needs fixing here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58533827/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.haskell-binary-shared_0.8-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:16] <Laney> nps
[11:17] <Laney> ooh
[11:17] <Laney> I haven't looked at any haskell yet this cycle
[11:17] <geser> I see that only in armel builds of haskell-* packages
[11:18] <Laney> seems like a toolchainish thing doesn't it
[11:18] <geser> i386 and amd64 doesn't seem to be affected (at least the recent archive rebuild doesn't list haskell-* packages)
[11:20] <geser> I don't know how linking of ghc6 programs works, so I don't have an idea if building hlibrary.setup needs the -lpthread or ghc6 itself when linking libHSunix-<IP_ADDRESS>.a
[11:26] <Laney> Me neither, let me check on my armel machine
[11:26] <Laney> might have to raise to glasgow-haskell-users
[11:28] <ari-tczew> how can I leave memo msg?
[12:11] <RainCT> ari-tczew: /msg MemoServ HELP
[12:22] <Laney> geser: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4523#comment:1
[12:22] <Laney> i'll test against ghc6 with that patch and then upload if it works
[12:23] <Laney> might take some time for ghc6/armel to build though…
[12:24] <geser> thanks
[12:50] <Laney> urgh, bootstrapping problem
[12:50] <Laney> ghc6 build-depends ghc6 and builds a script as part of configure, which fails due to this problem
[12:51] <geser> :(
[13:35] <cdbs> bdrung: there?
[13:38] <ari-tczew> RainCT: why did you change from Ubuntu binary package from zeitgeist-fts-extension to zeitgeist-extension-fts ?
[14:12] <ari-tczew> apt-rdepends is enough to find depends on X package
[14:13] <ari-tczew> ?
[14:13] <Rhonda> grep-available -FDepends $package -sPackage
[14:14] <Rhonda> apt-cache showpkg also show reverse depends
[14:15] <geser> depending on why you need it you might also need to check for rbuild-depends
[14:19] <ari-tczew> Rhonda: grep-available: invalid option -- 'f'
[14:19] <Rhonda> Where did I say -f?
[14:19] <ari-tczew> geser: ATM I'm looking for depends on binary package.
[14:20] <ari-tczew> Rhonda: I used: $ grep-available -FDepends $zeitgeist-fts-extension -szeitgeis-fts-extension
[14:20] <Rhonda> erm …
[14:20] <Rhonda> That's not what I said. :)
[14:20] <geser> ari-tczew: for that case it's unlikely that this package is used as a build-dependency
[14:20] <Rhonda> Only substiture $package with the package name.
[14:20] <Rhonda> ari-tczew: So grep-available -FDepends zeitgeist-fts-extension -sPackage
[14:22] <ari-tczew> geser: I wanrt to sync zeitgeist-extensions, but RainCT has changed binary package name in Debian and if I want to sync it, I have to resolve Build-Depends and Depends.
[14:22] <ari-tczew> s/wanrt/want
[14:22] <ari-tczew> thanks Rhonda, now I got output
[14:27] <RainCT> ari-tczew: Hey. There's not much point in syncing, the geolocation extensions which the Debian package includes isn't really useful yet and other than that I think they're the same.
[14:28] <ari-tczew> RainCT: I'm really convinced to reduce delta between Debian and Ubuntu. (again I must start open the same discussion)
[14:29] <RainCT> Delta by itself isn't bad.
[14:29] <ari-tczew> RainCT: we prefer to manage package through Debian
[14:32] <ari-tczew> Rhonda: can I use this command to find b-d?
[14:35] <Rhonda> Sure, though you would need grep-dctrl instead of grep-available and hand it the Sources file as argument.
[14:35] <Rhonda> Like grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep $package -sPackage /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources
[14:36]  * Rhonda . o O ( and again, *only* substiture $package with your search term, nothing else in that commandline )
[14:38] <geser> or use reverse-build-depends from u-d-t
[14:41] <ari-tczew> geser: nice tool! do you have something similiar for looking for Depends field?
[14:44] <geser> for that I usually use "apt-cache rdepends"
[14:53] <ari-tczew> geser: thanks, it works!
[14:57] <quidnunc> I'm trying to use checkinstall (yeah, I know I should make a real package) but it fails because of missing dependencies, glib2 among them. I can't find a package named glib2 in the repositories and I am confused about how checkinstall determined a debian package dependency.
[15:10] <Bachstelze> quidnunc: it probably didn't, please pastebin the exact messge you get
[15:33] <quidnunc> Bachstelze: The error is
[15:34] <quidnunc> Bachstelze:  "dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of xmonad-log-applet:
[15:34] <quidnunc>  xmonad-log-applet depends on glib2; however:
[15:34] <quidnunc>   Package glib2 is not installed."
[15:34] <quidnunc> Bachstelze: The full paste is http://pastebin.ca/2011207
[15:46] <Bachstelze> quidnunc: your pckages has dependencies, maybe the upstream tarball has a debian/ folder?
[15:47] <quidnunc> Bachstelze: no debian folder
[15:47] <quidnunc> it does have a .spec file
[15:48] <quidnunc> I have never seen that before
[15:48] <quidnunc> google search tells me it is for rpms
[15:51] <quidnunc> Is there a utility to build debs using .spec files?
[15:54] <coolbhavi> quidnunc, glib2 is in main repos https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.27.4-0ubuntu1
[15:55] <coolbhavi> quidnunc, glib2.0 package
[15:57] <coolbhavi> quidnunc, you should look at installing libglib2.0-0
[16:00] <Bachstelze> coolbhavi: the ackage asks for glib2, so it won't find libglib2.0-0
[16:00] <Bachstelze> the problem is how the dependency got there in the first place
[16:00] <Bachstelze> quidnunc: how about editing the .spec file, or deleting it altogether?
[16:01] <coolbhavi> Bachstelze, hmm maybe i got the problem wrong
[16:56] <quidnunc> deleting the spec solved my problem, thanks
[16:57] <coolbhavi> quidnunc, great!
[17:33] <ari-tczew> mr_pouit: Seems that you're a XFCE master. my admiration!
[17:41] <micahg> Laney: thanks
[17:42] <micahg> ricotz: syncs are now processed regularly by archive admins, should happen Monday or Tuesday
[17:59] <ricotz> micahg, alright, i wasnt aware of this change
[18:31] <udienz> anyone there?
[18:32] <udienz> i looking at sponsor for lp:#63189
[18:44] <hakermania> Hello all. In Revu (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/), some packages still need review and (as the site tells) have been uploaded almost 2 years now (the older was uploaded at 08 May 2009 11:39 ). So, I uploaded wallch (it is the last package now if you see). I would like to know when it will be reviewed. I am not in a hurry, but simply to know, because I find very strange all these packages than need review from 2009 and so.
[18:45] <micahg> udienz: it's in NEW right now, but I think there are still some issues
[18:46] <micahg> hakermania: yes, we don't have the people power to review large numbers of packages, that's why we usually suggest going through Debian
[18:46] <udienz> micahg: what issue?
[18:47] <hakermania> micahg: So, when it will be reviewed ?
[18:47] <micahg> udienz: first, the version looks off, second there are some lintian warnings
[18:47] <micahg> hakermania: idk
[18:49] <hakermania> But there is a MAIN problem: in the changelog i have given "natty". When my package is reviewed natty will have been released! So my package will go back to needs work!!!!!!! ?
[18:50] <hakermania> Have anyone though about this?
[18:50] <micahg> hakermania: if that's the only issue it's easy enough to resolve, usually there are more issues than that with a package on REVU
[18:51] <hakermania> How many people are working on revu?
[18:51] <micahg> hakermania: a handful I think
[18:52] <udienz> micahg: hm.. i see. so i want to fix "missing-debian-source-format " in lintian i must put "3.0 (native)" in debian/source/format?
[18:52] <micahg> udienz: I requested that an archive admin delete the package that was uploaded already since there are some changes and it's still going through churn for Debian
[18:52] <micahg> udienz: why is it native?
[18:53] <micahg> udienz: native means Debian or Ubuntu is the upstream
[18:54] <hakermania> Ok, so what can I do so my package to be in the natty distro? You told something about Debian i think
[18:55] <udienz> micahg: hm.. thanks, so i must change version at debian/changelog to 1.2-0-1ubuntuX?
[18:55] <udienz> and sorry for my bad english :D
[18:55] <micahg> udienz: actually 0ubuntuX if it enters Ubuntu before Debian
[18:55] <micahg> udienz: not a problem :)
[18:56] <hakermania> Ok, so what can I do so my package to be in the natty distro? You told something about Debian i think
[18:57] <micahg> udienz: if you don't have a rush need for it to be in Ubuntu immediately, you can finish up the work in Debian and it'll get sync'd, it just has to be in by Feb 24 2011
[18:57] <micahg> hakermania: what type of application is it?
[18:57] <hakermania> Accessory
[18:57] <hakermania> (Utils)
[18:58] <udienz> micahg: ok i'll finishing it at debian
[18:58] <micahg> udienz: just keep that date in mind, you should make sure it's sync'd to Ubuntu by that date to insure it's in Natty
[18:59] <udienz> micahg: okay
[19:00] <hakermania> micahg: ?
[19:00] <micahg> hakermania: maybe some of the other MOTUs have time, they'll read the backscroll and might take a look
[19:01] <hakermania> micahg: no, you previously asked me what kind of program it is. Why?
[19:01] <micahg> hakermania: if one of the Debian teams fits your package, you can try to get it in through Debian and get it reviewed by that team, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/
[19:02] <micahg> hakermania: oh, I was going to try to see if it fits with a Debian team, offhand I'm not sure which one, hence I gave you the link to look for yourself to see if there's a good fit
[19:03] <hakermania> Ok, does DEBIAN has e.g. GNOME Desktop? Supports gconftool, imagemagick ?
[19:05] <hakermania> and something else, the Advocated Package libassuan2 by user jr was uploaded at 03 Dec 2010 16:18 at is already fully accepted!!!! What???? That's not fair! There are package waiting 2 years now to be reviewed and libassuan2 was reviewed in 2 days time!
[19:05] <hakermania> IS THIS FAIR?
[19:06] <hakermania> sorry for bad english
[19:07] <micahg> hakermania: the package was fine, and was adovcated and accepted
[19:08] <maco> packages arent necessarily reviewed in order of first-uploaded...more like first-correct
[19:08] <micahg> hakermania: the uploader happens to be an Ubuntu developer, so it just needed review from one person
[19:08] <hakermania> How do I become ubuntu developer/
[19:08] <hakermania> ?
[19:09] <micahg> or rather more specially user is a core-dev
[19:09] <hakermania> unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o
[19:09] <micahg> hakermania: that won't help your case
[19:09] <maco> you become an ubuntu dev by demonstrating over the course of several months that you know what you're doing and need minimal supervision
[19:09] <hakermania> I thought that only in Greece there are those things :@
[19:10] <maco> (several months to years, really)
[19:10] <micahg> hakermania: most of the reviewers are volunteers, they work on what they want to work on
[19:10] <hakermania> And why in debian it's easier?
[19:10] <maco> debian requires only one person to say "its good"
[19:10] <maco> ubuntu requires wo
[19:10] <maco> *two
[19:11] <maco> also, debian has 10x as many developrs who can do reviews
[19:11] <micahg> hakermania: not necessarily easier, but they have more people power, we only have about 180 devs total
[19:11] <maco> we're up to 180 now??
[19:11] <Laney> and it's more easy to identify (groups of) people who might be inclined to review a particular package
[19:11] <micahg> 153 capable of advocating for packages
[19:12] <maco> ohok that sounds more reasonable
[19:12] <hakermania> 153 people are unable to handle 1-2 packages per day?
[19:12] <micahg> hakermania: who says they have time to review any?
[19:13] <micahg> hakermania: they're also responsible for 15k+ packages already in Ubuntu
[19:13] <hakermania> ....
[19:13] <hakermania> I spent 3 months to build my app :(
[19:13] <hakermania> and to know if I have something wrong I have to wait 2 years or so...
[19:14] <hakermania> !
[19:14] <hakermania> mad. :|
[19:14] <maco> no...
[19:14] <maco> the packages that are on there for 2 years are abandoned packages
[19:14] <maco> it frequently occurs that soemone uploads something, they get one review telling them they did it wrong, and they dont bother fixing it
[19:14] <maco> 2 years later, its still sitting there
[19:15] <hakermania> yeah, because nobody wanted to review them. That's a kind of racism
[19:15] <maco> A) its nothing to do with the uploader's race, so don't try that
[19:15] <maco> B) they've generally been reviewed but *not* advocated -- the review said "wrong. start over"
[19:15] <maco> if you upload something and are told you're doing it wrong, you should upload a fixed version
[19:16] <maco> itll bump your package back up to the top of the queue, iirc
[19:16] <hakermania> So why they aren't at Needs Work section?
[19:16] <maco> if you never upload a fixed version, it will languish because reviewers are still waiting for you to get around to it
[19:16] <maco> the whole unapproved thing *is* "needs work"
[19:16] <hakermania> ok
[19:17] <hakermania> Hmmm
[19:18] <hakermania> ouao
[19:18] <hakermania> my package has been reviewed
[19:18] <hakermania> it is telling that there's not watch file
[19:18] <hakermania> ouao
[19:18] <hakermania> :)
[19:18] <hakermania> I was wrong :)
[19:18] <hakermania> So, if I retype dput revu *changes
[19:18] <hakermania> it will say that wallch already exists
[19:18] <hakermania> how do I force the upload?
[19:19] <maco> rm the .upload file
[19:19] <maco> but!
[19:19] <maco> make sure you regenerate the .dsc and .changes and everything after adding the watch file
[19:19] <hakermania> yes ok
[19:20] <hakermania> ls -al doesn't show any .upload directory... :/
[19:20] <hakermania> or file
[19:20] <hakermania> or something..
[19:21] <hakermania> found
[19:21] <hakermania> -f, --force - force an upload of an already uploaded package.
[19:24] <Laney> Could you use enter a bit less, please?
[19:31] <udienz> micahg: thanks for last chat, i've successfully uploaded to mentors.d.o
[19:32] <micahg> udienz: np, let me know if I can help further
[19:44] <udienz> micahg: how to make lintian report at my PC
[19:44] <udienz> same like at revu
[19:48] <micahg> udienz: I'm not sure what REVU uses, but you can run lintian -iIEv --pedantic on a .changes or a .deb file
[19:49] <micahg> or a .dsc
[19:50] <udienz> it's work with *dsc, thanks
[19:50] <lfaraone> udienz: you'll get the full report if you run it on the .changes created after a binary build.
[19:51] <udienz> lfaraone: wonk fine too
[19:51] <udienz> but i still got debian-watch-file-in-native-package
[19:51] <udienz> but i still got error wthi "debian-watch-file-in-native-package"
[19:52] <udienz> how can i solved this problem?
[19:52] <lfaraone> udienz: is there a .orig.tar.gz or a similarly named file in the folder above where your debian/ folder is?
[19:53] <udienz> yes, aspell-id_1.2-0.orig.tar.gz is in above debian directory
[19:54] <lfaraone> udienz: what's your package's version number?
[19:54] <micahg> udienz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
[19:54] <udienz> lfaraone: 1.2-0-4
[19:54] <lfaraone> micahg: no, the issue is his package is building as native mistakenly.
[19:55] <lfaraone> hm, odd.
[19:55] <udienz> lfaraone: i try to build this package from Lucid and Lenny and got same error
[19:56] <micahg> the -0 might be throwing it off, idk
[19:56] <micahg> udienz: did you try setting 3.0 (quilt) in debian/source/format?
[19:57] <lfaraone> micahg: per Debian policy, "The upstream_version may contain only alphanumerics[33] and the characters . + - : ~ (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon, tilde) and should start with a digit."
[19:57] <micahg> lfaraone: in other words, should be fine :)
[19:58] <lfaraone> right.
[19:59] <udienz> micahg: if i put "3.0 (quilt: and re run debuild and checked wuth lintian. the error is gone
[19:59] <lfaraone> exciting.
[19:59] <udienz> * 3.0 (quilt)
[19:59] <micahg> udienz: and you get a .debian.tar.gz in the same dir as teh .orig.tar.gz that's smallish?
[20:00] <udienz> micahg: yes i got it: named aspell-id_1.2-0-4.debian.tar.gz
[20:00] <micahg> udienz: and it only has the debian dir in it and not the source?
[20:01] <udienz> micahg: yes only debian dir
[20:02] <micahg> udienz: \o/
[20:02] <udienz> it that right?
[20:02] <micahg> udienz: yep :)
[20:03] <udienz> micahg, lfaraone: thanks advice..
[20:30] <quidnunc> I'm trying to build a package which is failing with "fatal error: dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory". I believe that file is provided in one of the following: "Setting up libglib2.0-dev (2.26.0-0ubuntu1) ... Setting up libdbus-glib-1-dev (0.88-2) .." which I added to build-depends. What am I doing wrong?
[20:31] <hakermania> ?
[20:32] <hakermania> it is maybe a linking error!
[20:32] <quidnunc> hakermania: Are you speaking to me?
[20:32] <hakermania> Yes!
[20:32] <hakermania> are you using qt?
[20:32] <tjcasey> hi guys, quick question, if I push changes via bzr push and then request merge, do I still need to attach the diff file to the bug report?
[20:32] <quidnunc> hakermania: How can it be a linking error the error suggests that the compiler didn't find a header file
[20:33] <Laney> you want libdbus-1-dev
[20:33] <quidnunc> hakermania: What?
[20:33] <Laney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=dbus.h&mode=exactfilename&suite=natty&arch=any
[20:33] <quidnunc> Laney: I have that as well
[20:33] <quidnunc> Laney: I tried adding every single dbus dev package that I could find
[20:33] <Laney> then you probably aren't setting CFLAGS right
[20:33] <quidnunc> to build-depends
[20:34] <quidnunc> Laney: That may be it: I'm not setting CFLAGS at all
[20:35] <Laney> pastebin the build log
[20:35] <Laney> please :)
[20:35] <quidnunc> Where is that stored again?
[20:35] <Laney> depends how you are building
[20:36] <quidnunc> prevu
[20:36] <Laney> don't know :(
[20:36] <Laney> back soon
[20:37] <quidnunc> it just wraps pbuilder
[20:39] <quidnunc> I'll just paste stdout
[20:39] <quidnunc> + stderr
[20:43] <quidnunc> Laney: http://pastebin.ca/2011417
[20:48] <Laney> quidnunc: Looks like the cflags are indeed missing. Try adding pkgconfig-depends: dbus-1 in the cabal file.
[21:01] <quidnunc> Laney: That didn't seem to help but thanks for the tip
[21:01] <hakermania> how should I name the General Public License 3 in order not to get from REVU: 'The GNU General Public License is mentioned in debian/copyright but     there seems to be no copy of it included in the source tarball, which     is a requirement for it. (Note: The file may be there but have an     uncommon name; please double-check before trusting this warning). '  I have tried GPL3 but it doesn't work
[21:02] <dapal> use COPYING for the file, it's one of the common names
[21:02] <dapal> if you already embed it, with another name, say so :)
[21:04] <hakermania> dapal: Thank you. When it says in the source tarball it means inside the folder with the source, doesn't it?
[21:04] <dapal> yes
[21:45] <geser> lucas: how often is the information about new Ubuntu uploads for http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi updated? I'm wondering why fbb is not in outdated already when I uploaded a fixed package to Ubuntu on Friday (the page lists no outdated packages at all yet).
[21:56] <bcurtiswx> how do i find which package libnotify belongs to ?
[21:56] <micahg> bcurtiswx: apt-file search?
[21:56] <maco> dpkg -S filename
[21:56] <maco> (if its installed)
[21:57] <bcurtiswx> micahg, maco thx
[21:57] <geser> bcurtiswx: binary package to source package? or file to binary package?
[21:57] <bcurtiswx> geser, first
[21:58] <micahg> bcurtiswx: oh, hmm, apt-cache show PKG | grep ^Source
[21:58] <maco> or apt-cache showsrc PKG | head -n1
[21:58] <geser> if you have a source repository configured (deb-src): "apt-cache madison" and look for the source line
[21:59] <micahg> maco: Source isn't the first line
[21:59] <maco> its not?
[22:00] <micahg> not for me at least
[22:00] <maco> yes it is
[22:00] <maco> for showsrc the first line is Package:  and shows the source package name
[22:00] <micahg> maybe it depends on the package :)
[22:00] <maco> second line is Binary:  and shows the binary package name
[22:00] <maco> its the difference between show and showsrc
[22:00] <micahg> oh, sorry, I didn't notice you said showsrc :)
[22:01] <bcurtiswx> back, had connectivity issues
[22:01] <micahg> maco: you are correct :)
[22:02] <geser> micahg: your line doesn't work as not every package has a Source entry (only those where the binary name != source name)
[22:02] <micahg> geser: you are also correct
[22:02] <geser> bcurtiswx: did you see out replies?
[22:03] <bcurtiswx> not after i said "geser, first"
[22:03] <bcurtiswx> until micahg said "oh sorry, i ddin't notice..."
[22:03] <micahg> bcurtiswx: it should all be in the logs now
[22:04] <geser> "apt-cache showsrc PKG | head -n1" or "apt-cache madison PKG" (for both you need a source repository (deb-src) entry)
[22:04] <bcurtiswx> OK, thx all
[22:39] <bcurtiswx> i did a bzr merge-upstream which gave a conflict.  i see a BASE|OTHER|THIS file how do I "resolve" this conflict ?
[22:40] <RAOF> Work out what the resolution should be, save it, then run “bzr resolve”
[22:41] <RAOF> The BASE|OTHER|THIS files are just a part of the standard conflict resolution info; one is the BASE file, one is the BASE file + the changes made in THIS tree, one is the BASE file + the changes made in the OTHER tree.
[22:41] <bcurtiswx> RAOF, the next step to solving would be identifying the issue.  the .BASE .OTHER .THIS file hold this information ?
[22:43] <RAOF> Mostly you can ignore the .BASE/.OTHER/.THIS files, because bzr will put conflict markers in the file.  Looking like <<<<HEAD ...stuff from your tree... [22:44] <bcurtiswx> OK, looking
[22:46] <bcurtiswx> found that section, lemme pastebin
[22:47] <bcurtiswx> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540110/ how do I tell it which to keep ? i would assume the stuff after the [22:47] <RAOF> Working out what to keep requires understanding what was changed, both in the ubuntu branch and in the upstream branch.
[22:48] <RAOF> In this case, the second branch (after the [22:48] <bcurtiswx> yup, my thoughts too
[22:50] <bcurtiswx> RAOF, do i just delete all but what I'm keeping for those lines ?
[22:52] <RAOF> You leave the file in the state it should end up in; so you'd delete from <<<HEAD to [22:52] <bcurtiswx> ROAF, OK Thx
[22:54] <bcurtiswx> RAOF, then bzr resolve ?
[22:55] <RAOF> Yup.  That will pick up that you've fixed the conflict, and will mark it as resolved.
[23:05] <bcurtiswx> hmm, i quilt push -f with a refresh on all patches, and it works.. but when i bzr bd.. it fails..
[23:05] <geser> error message?
[23:05] <bcurtiswx> yup, lemme pastebiun
[23:06] <bcurtiswx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/540113/
[23:06] <bcurtiswx> geser, ^^
[23:08] <geser> and "push"ing each patch after a "quilt pop -a" works?
[23:11] <bcurtiswx> geser, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540114/
[23:14] <geser> does it also work when you leave out the -f?
[23:14] <bcurtiswx> geser, yes. saem result
[23:14] <bcurtiswx> same*
[23:15] <geser> hmm
[23:20] <geser> bcurtiswx: just curious: you seem to update libnotify on your own, a) why not take libnotify 0.7.0-3 from Debian experimental and apply the Ubuntu delta if still needed and b) what's the difference to libnotify4 0.7.0+git20101118-0ubuntu2?
[23:21] <geser> from the libnotify4 changelog from Nov 11: "Rename source package and -dev binary to be versioned, so that we can install both in parallel for a while."
[23:21] <bcurtiswx> geser, i'm trying to package empathy 2.91.3 and it has a build-dep on that libnotify.. i assume the easy way would be updating the empathy build-dep to libnotify4 instead of the current one
[23:22] <bcurtiswx> i guess I can do that
[23:22] <bcurtiswx> didn't see libnotify4 :) thx
[23:22] <geser> bcurtiswx: yes, looks like you should build-depend on libnotify4-dev
[23:24] <geser> sorry that I couldn't help you with your original problem
[23:25] <bcurtiswx> geser, you've been a great help :) thx
[23:30] <bcurtiswx> geser, if im moving things to GTK+3 then libglib2.0-dev and libgtk2.0-dev get bumped to libglib3.0-dev and libgtk3.0-dev ?
[23:34] <geser> I guess so, but apt-cache shows me only a libgtk3.0-dev package but no libglib3.0-dev (or similar). Better ask the folks in #ubuntu-desktop.
[23:36] <bcurtiswx> geser,  thanks.  i guess 2.0 is still used. (missed an entry in their NEWS file)


[12:18] <pips1> there are lots of "atomic" specs in LP and that's very confusing... one spends too much time simply opening all those "mini"-spec pages
[12:18] <pips1> agreed
[12:21] <pips1> ogra: what do you think about Burgwork suggestion for a "bridge"- or common spec for that whole network-integration/identity management stuff (ldap, auth, ...) ?
[12:21] <ogra> sure
[12:21] <ogra> but lets do that at UDS
[12:21] <ogra> if wE're all in one room to discuss it
[12:22] <ogra> lets not clutter LP more than it needs in advance
[12:22] <Burgwork> indeed
[12:22] <Burgwork> why I am cursing my fracking employer right now
[12:22] <pips1> but you said that without a spec, meetings don't happen, because the schedule is already booked out?
[12:22] <Burgwork> no, the schedule can flex
[12:22] <pips1> ah
[12:22] <pips1> good to hear that :)
[12:23] <Burgwork> if you meet about something, and that breaks into three or four specs, or specs get merge, the schedule changes
[12:23] <pips1> ok, I shall not worry too much
[12:23] <Burgwork> only the first day is decided ahead of time
[12:23] <pips1> ic
[12:25] <pips1> got to get some sleep now, cu folks
[01:51] <lguerra> si, si lo veo
[01:52] <lguerra> sorry,
[03:59] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:00] <lotusleaf> h3//o
[04:02] <LaserJock> sbalneav!
[04:02] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[05:07] <eSeong> anyone here could get dlink dwl-122 usb to work on ubuntu ?
[07:41] <kwak> hi RichEd
[07:41] <RichEd> hi kwak
[07:41] <kwak> im installing my edubuntu test machine today on a virtual server.
[07:42] <RichEd> good luck :)
[07:42] <kwak> i wanted to test it first before removing k12
[07:42] <eSeong> RichEd.. i install edubunbtu done..
[07:42] <eSeong> but i could not interfere with my adapter :(
[07:43] <kwak> im new to debian. you know any guide in using edubuntu.
[07:43] <kwak> eSeong, what do you mean?
[07:43] <RichEd> kwak: there is a document page ... let me find the link'
[07:43] <kwak> interfere? interface?
[07:43] <eSeong> interface**
[07:44] <kwak> you can't configure the network adapters you mean?
[07:45] <eSeong> they never support.
[07:45] <eSeong> my dlink dwl-122 :(
[07:45] <RichEd> kwak: http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> eSeong, i have a dwl-something, but i lent it to a mate, so i'm not sure what the exact number is. it doesnt work in dapper, it might in edgy though
[07:53] <kwak> thanks RichEd
[07:54] <RichEd> LaserJock: you alive atm ?
[07:54] <LaserJock> why yes
[07:55] <RichEd> just in another channel :)
[07:56] <RichEd> dof question ... I am busy registering my attendance at UDS and I see that everyone's availability date starts with 2006-11-06 ... what happened to sunday ?
[07:57] <LaserJock> it's UTC time
[07:59] <RichEd> i thought about that but 09.00hrs on Sunday 5th November (local time) is 09:00+8:00 to get to UTC which is still in Sunday ?
[08:00] <LaserJock> I don't know
[08:00] <RichEd> okay ... not serious ... just was wondering
[08:00] <LaserJock> oh, well I think I did put in that I would get there Saturday night maybe
[08:00] <RichEd> tx.
[08:01] <LaserJock> I just kinda did what everybody else was doing ;-)
[08:10] <RichEd> LaserJock: how and where do your dynamic menus fit into feisty and UDS ... got time for a quick chat ?
[08:11] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:11] <LaserJock> I registered a spec for Mt. View
[08:11] <LaserJock> but I'm only going to be at Mt. View Sunday and Monday
[08:11] <LaserJock> and it's set at Medium priority
[08:12] <LaserJock> so I'm not sure how to handle that yet
[08:13] <LaserJock> RichEd: what do you want to know?
[08:13] <RichEd> LaserJock: no problems re date limitations ... pips1 also will be there until tuesday ... so we will try to get our discussions set for early days
[08:14] <RichEd> Well we think (in the meeting discussion yesterday) that your dynamic menus kind of overlap to some degree with our need for Edubuntu Secondary and Edubuntu University "editions" ... so wanted to get the discussions overlapping as well
[08:15] <LaserJock> yes, in fact I'm very interested in all of those
[08:16] <RichEd> right ... let me see how I can fit these together in some way ... will chat more later
[08:17] <LaserJock> I'm also interested in expanding the menu stuff into general user management
[08:17] <LaserJock> I don't think the current Gnome user management tools are very friendly for school admins
[08:18] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: user management is an interesting one
[08:18] <Burgundavia> config management in general
[08:19] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:19] <Burgundavia> this landscape-client stuff is what I am sort of waiting for
[08:19] <LaserJock> there are all these bits and pieces
[08:19] <Burgundavia> the key piece is we need a unified effort
[08:20] <LaserJock> but we need to pull things together
[08:21] <LaserJock> I've wondered if we should make SCP plugins
[08:21] <Burgundavia> scp is one interesting piece
[08:21] <Burgundavia> scp needs to work across a network
[08:21] <Burgundavia> made a more general admin tool
[08:22] <LaserJock> yeah, I just don't know what exactly to do
[08:23] <LaserJock> seems like we need to make sure we have the underlying systems and then interface that to SCP or something
[08:23] <Burgundavia> here is part of what you need to do
[08:23] <Burgundavia> tell Mark to get the landscape-client stuff on the table
[08:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:24] <Burgundavia> until then, it is all talk, becuase there is no sane reason to duplicate effort
[08:24] <Burgundavia> and landscape client is going to be installed on every ubuntu machine out there
[08:24] <Burgundavia> dapper, edgy, and onwards
[08:24] <LaserJock> when? this is the first I've heard of it
[08:25] <Burgundavia> there is an empty package in dapper and edgy
[08:25] <LaserJock> right
[08:25] <LaserJock> but is there code?
[08:25] <LaserJock> is it more then  vapor-ware?
[08:25] <Burgundavia> yes, within Cancomical towers
[08:26] <LaserJock> yeah, well
[08:27] <Burgundavia> but do you see the issue?
[08:27] <Burgundavia> any attempt to create a client and get it into Ubuntu is going to fail
[08:28] <LaserJock> why?
[08:28] <Burgundavia> by default, at any rate
[08:28] <Burgundavia> however, threatening to create such a client would probably force Mark to get on with it
[08:29] <LaserJock> well, I wasn't thinking of anything like that I don't think
[08:30] <LaserJock> I just want tools that a teacher or admin can use to manage Edubuntu installs
[08:30] <Burgundavia> but once you start talking about changing things on a mass scale you need a client
[08:31] <LaserJock> I'm thinking user control and dynamic menus
[08:31] <LaserJock> but I see where having that sort of thing will be good in the future
[08:32] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:32] <Burgundavia> but you need an agent on the client side to do stuff, in the case of user control
[08:33] <LaserJock> why?
[08:33] <LaserJock> it all happens on the same machine
[08:33] <LaserJock> it's an LTSP server
[08:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> one thing i think would be a help is an easy way to make preseeded cds. you can make things as easy as you want, but if you cant easily do a mass deplyment the way you need, its a bit useless :|
[08:33] <Burgundavia> what about large deployments with multiple servers?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> what about fat clients?
[08:33] <LaserJock> we aren't there yet
[08:34] <Burgundavia> yes, actually, we are
[08:34] <LaserJock> I mean, it'd be nice
[08:34] <Burgundavia> people are deploying them, therefor we need to consider those use cases
[08:34] <LaserJock> sure
[08:34] <Burgundavia> think outside Edubuntu for a second
[08:34] <LaserJock> I know I know
[08:34] <Burgundavia> I have 3 machines at work, with 7 users
[08:34] <Burgundavia> I want a single control panel for all those machines
[08:34] <LaserJock> but we can dream all we want, but we have to have people to implement this stuff
[08:35] <LaserJock> what can we realistically do in Feisty
[08:35] <Burgundavia> well, depends what Mark does with landscape
[08:35] <Burgundavia> it is quite doable, assuming he plays along
[08:35] <LaserJock> I'm not going to rely on Mark for anything
[08:36] <nixternal> haven't they been working on Landscape now for like 6 months supposedly?
[08:36] <Burgundavia> landscape has a complete server side as well
[08:36] <nixternal> is it another LP project in the making?
[08:36] <Burgundavia> basically
[08:36] <nixternal> kept behind locked doors with the possibility of it being released before the polar ice caps melt and we all drown
[08:37] <Burgundavia> the server is going to be closed source
[08:37] <Burgundavia> but the client, miracles of miracles, must be shipped with Ubuntu
[08:37] <Burgundavia> thus it must be open source
[08:37] <nixternal> im not liking the sound of "closed source" at all
[08:37] <Burgundavia> meh
[08:37] <nixternal> it goes against the philosophy...whats next?
[08:37] <Burgundavia> I could care less about the server side
[08:37] <Burgundavia> I just want to see the client and its code
[08:38] <nixternal> svn diff philosophy.orig philosophy.new > closed_source_muhahah.diff
[08:38] <Burgundavia> the community can replicate teh server side quite easily
[08:38] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: sure, if we have a client then that's cool
[08:38] <Burgundavia> I know that if we go and do the client, we are not going to get it accepted by default
[08:38] <nixternal> replicating == duplicating == time lost on other important projects
[08:39] <nixternal> wow, that was intuative
[08:39] <LaserJock> sure
[08:39] <nixternal> maybe i should think next time before i speak
[08:39] <Burgundavia> I suggest you gusy all email mark and ask him
[08:39] <Burgundavia> lay it out, exactly which specs are being slowed down because of it
[08:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, yes, it also puts you competeing with yourself in this instance
[08:39] <nixternal> haha
[08:39] <LaserJock>  Burgundavia: well, I'm not in a place to do that
[08:39] <nixternal> no doubt, as i duplicated myself there ;)
[08:40] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes, yes you are
[08:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> nix ;)
[08:41] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: if you are planning to work on scp in Feisty, you need to tell Mark you work is being slowed down because of his inaction
[08:41] <Burgundavia> I think Mark is thinking like a magician on this one: The grand flourish of the release
[08:45] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser / Burgundavia / nixternal : while I don't pretend to 100% understand all of what you are discussing above :) there is a lot of overlap with the discussion in the meeting yesterday stemming from feature requests from posts to the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-user mailing list
[08:45] <highvoltage> ugh @ landscape
[08:46] <RichEd> there is a page in progress here with the user requests extracted into one place: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
[08:46] <RichEd> I am working through the meeting changes to the page now
[08:47] <RichEd> We thought that quite a few of the requests that originated as "school requests" applied to ubuntu environments and requirements as well ... like remote takeover of workstations etc.
[08:47] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: why so? the closed source nature of it?
[08:48] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: yes. launchpad is already causing me some... well, 'irritation', for lack of better word
[08:48] <Burgundavia> right
[08:48] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: I noticed landscape in the archives a while back and asked on -devel, but no one wanted to tell me much about it :/
[08:48] <Burgundavia> I don't pretend to understand Mark, but I think I know why he is doing this
[08:48] <Burgundavia> he loves the "grand unveil"
[08:49] <highvoltage> he does.
[08:49] <Burgundavia> it worked well with Ubuntu, because there was no community
[08:49] <Burgundavia> now there is and we are getting annoyed
[08:49] <highvoltage> but it's against the release early and often nature of Ubuntu
[08:49] <Burgundavia> yes, yes it is
[08:50] <highvoltage> if it's good and worthwhile, debian will rewrite it... eventually... so there is some hope at least
[08:51] <Burgundavia> right
[08:52] <highvoltage> it probably sounds silly, and I'm not sure if I should mention this yet...
[08:52] <RichEd> highvoltage: that debian comment brings up a question I had in mind ... in general, how do we stay in touch with what is being developed upstream and which will become available to us, to avoid duplicate dev effort. does it just rely on informal communication ?
[08:53] <highvoltage> but for tuxlab, we want some of the launchpad infrastructure, but I don't want to force a proprietary product on our users
[08:53] <highvoltage> so I thought of rewriting the launchpad functionality that we need in something like django. we would be able to have most of what we need in a mini-launchpad.
[08:54] <highvoltage> RichEd: if you make the upstream landscape proprietary, you can't avoid duplication, really
[08:55] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: the big thing here is we don't really have any developers for this stuff
[08:55] <LaserJock> we're a distro and I'm not sure we can do a lot of upstream development kind of things
[08:55] <Burgundavia> we are upstream for managment software
[08:55] <LaserJock> but should we be?
[08:55] <Burgundavia> for now, yes
[08:56] <LaserJock> ogra can't do everything?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> it is more a peer to peer thing
[08:56] <LaserJock> s/?//
[08:56] <pygi> well, we have community to do some of upstream products which then can be merged into several distros
[08:56] <pygi> not only Ubuntu family
[08:56] <RichEd> I meant more along the lines of the "request" yesterday for us to add a feature to allow Mac and Win to log onto and into a *buntu domain and use resources in an authenticated manner. We debated that this may be developed by debian or a 3rd party (if there was a percieved need)
[08:56] <Burgundavia> RichEd: the other way around is more interesting
[08:56] <Burgundavia> ubuntu to AD
[08:57] <Burgundavia> as windows to Ubuntu requires a server
[08:57] <RichEd> Burgundavia: there is a directory group & strong focus on this for MV
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I am part of the founding group of people on the ubuntu-directory team
[08:58] <Burgundavia> we are not thinking server right now
[08:58] <RichEd> So, I am not really homing in on the feature, but the concept ... how do we know what is being done by others (which we can use) when we plan new developments ?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> on the ldap server side, there are two interesting things
[08:59] <Burgundavia> samba4 and FDS
[08:59] <highvoltage> RichEd: I read slashdot and debian times, that helps for me :)
[08:59] <RichEd> highvoltage: and I presume we have debian folk at our UDS ?
[08:59] <highvoltage> RichEd: or I keep up to date by aggregating a whole bunch of stuff... http://technews.jonathancarter.co.za
[08:59] <Burgundavia> hmm, how do you email Mark and see "Stop being a twat and give us code", without doing that
[09:00] <highvoltage> RichEd: yes
[09:00] <Burgundavia> RichEd: that isn't debian. Samba4 is mostly Novell and FDS is Fedora Directory Server
[09:00] <Burgundavia> when I say upstream, I mean a lot more than debian
[09:01] <RichEd> Regarding the need for developer bandwidth ... there is some possible relief in sight, but I'll only explain on the condition that this does not start rampant speculation or heated feelings.
[09:01] <LaserJock> I know Ubuntu in general has a fair amount of development power, but I think for Feisty we will have about 1 full time developer's worth of development in Edubuntu
[09:03] <pygi> LaserJock: +1 at least :)
[09:03] <LaserJock> I'm looking at all the specs we have and I'm just not seeing how we are going to be able to make much of a dent in it
[09:03] <LaserJock> pygi: I doubt it
[09:03] <pygi> LaserJock: hm, I don't :)
[09:03] <RichEd> => Canonical is a project partner in an EU sponsored project called Edulinux. We are contracted in for a whack of developement days, to produce a Education Server and related tools.
[09:03] <Burgundavia> our specs will get brutally winnowed down
[09:03] <pygi> Burgundavia: you are too pessimistic
[09:04] <pygi> ^_^
[09:04] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: right, which will mean most of this stuff goes by the wayside for now
[09:04] <RichEd> => Oliver and I go to the first workshop in the last week of November (in Lodz in Poland)
[09:04] <Burgundavia> pygi: I am a realist
[09:04] <Burgundavia> by "education server", what does that mean?
[09:04] <pygi> Burgundavia: perhaps, but reality estimation are here to be broken
[09:04] <Burgundavia> are we talking AD-style?
[09:06] <RichEd> => So if we can shape our requests for Feisty to overlap with what we think will be requested by the other project partners, then we will be able to access some funds for warm bodies ... note this in no way implies any new position or post in Canonical ... and will probably be some part time or time boxed approach.
[09:06] <Burgundavia> right
[09:06] <Burgundavia> that is cool
[09:06] <RichEd> Burgundavia: let me get the project summary for you
[09:06] <Burgundavia> I need to be in MTV
[09:06] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: big fan of beyonce?
[09:06] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: knowles?
[09:07] <highvoltage> yeah. she's in MTV too atm. sorry, no time for jokes :/
[09:07] <Burgundavia> right
[09:07] <RichEd> And while I do that, the one thought / comment is that the kind of management tools you were all talking about above would be high on the educators' agenda (seeing as they were also requested from our list users).
[09:07] <Burgundavia> managment is high on everybodies list
[09:09] <RichEd> And a final comment, if we can push the feature to an Ubuntu feature level, then perhaps (Ogra + Help Dev from Edubuntu) + (Ubuntu Dev) may be sufficient to get it underway ?
[09:09] <kwak> RichEd: installatino of edubuntu is finish. i testing client (vmware), it can get an address, but stops in TFTP. do i need to do something else
[09:09] <RichEd> highvoltage: ^^^ can you help kwak
[09:10] <Burgundavia> RichEd: sure. I would love to see what needs are education specific and what can be made more generic
[09:12] <highvoltage> kwak: try restarting inetd: sudo /etc/init.d/inetd restart
[09:12] <highvoltage> kwak: if that doesn't work, check thet tftpd is enabled in /etc/inetd.conf
[09:12] <kwak> ok.
[09:12] <highvoltage> kwak: vmware sometimes does some strange things too
[09:13] <RichEd> Burgundavia: that comment brings us back to the Edubuntu approach, or Ubuntu and Education approach ... if the Edulinux Project Team perceive a better fit with Ubuntu for say High Schools / Universities than Edubuntu (in its current state) then what they request as tools may need to work at the Ubuntu level
[09:13] <Burgundavia> RichEd: under the covers, Edubuntu IS Ubuntu
[09:13] <kwak> highvoltage: i got a TFTP oopen timeout
[09:14] <Burgundavia> there is no difference. Same kernel, same desktop, everyting
[09:14] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: RichEd is new to this game
[09:14] <RichEd> Burgundavia: new, not dof
[09:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, but i was under the impression he wasnt that new :O
[09:15] <Burgundavia> heh
[09:15] <Burgundavia> sorry
[09:15] <highvoltage> kwak: I think you might have to check your vmware network settings, I don't think the problem is with the edubuntu installation
[09:15] <Burgundavia> I am been fighting with stuff at work for 5 hours, didn
[09:15] <Burgundavia> t get home until 10pm
[09:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> know the feeling burg :|
[09:15] <highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: he isn't that new, he worked for HP education before
[09:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
[09:16] <Burgundavia> work has been dicking around on the developmetn side as well, so feeling like I need to change something
[09:16] <Burgundavia> posslby that might involve sharp pointy things
[09:16] <RichEd> Burgundavia: What I am saying is that if there is a need for (1) remote takeover of workstations (2) mass creation of users and home directories ... just because the request happens to originate from a Education user request, does not make it an Edubuntu feature requirement.
[09:16] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[09:17] <kwak> ok. il try that. the tftp boot is not commented
[09:17] <RichEd> Yes, Edubuntu wants this available. But surely Ubuntu does as well, and we can work *with* them and their greater resource pool to make it happen and available for all.
[09:17] <Burgundavia> RichEd: which brings us back to landscape and the need for a client
[09:17] <Burgundavia> see, that is interesting, because I see no divide between Kubuntu,Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu
[09:18] <Burgundavia> especially Edu and U, because they share so much
[09:19] <RichEd> I see 1 Edubuntu Developer and 50 Ubuntu developers and would love to have them building generic stuff underneath us, so that we can concentrate on the Education specific things, like desktop and application choices, and a few school specific tools.
[09:19] <Burgundavia> right
[09:21] <Burgundavia> anyway, I need to be at work in 7 hours
[09:21] <Burgundavia> thus I need to sleep
[09:21] <Burgundavia> night all
[09:21] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: sleep tight
[09:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> night
[09:21] <RichEd> Burgundavia: check msg window for Edulinux summary
[09:21] <RichEd> and then sleep tight :)
[09:21] <Burgundavia> got it
[09:34] <kwak> i still want to know if edubuntu has problems with broadcom. :)
[09:35] <kwak> im so anxious to replace my k12ltsp installation, giving me headache.
[09:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> if the kernel supports it, it will work
[09:37] <kwak> o well, i think it's just a fedora problem.
[09:38] <kwak> so edubuntu works out of the box right?
[09:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> depends what you need to work ;)
[09:38] <kwak> what do you mean. we're just using LTSP in a school computer lab.
[09:39] <kwak> installed crossover to run MS Office.
[09:39] <kwak> what's the minimum requirements, my server is dual CPU and 4GB RAM, supporting 25 clients
[09:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> ltsp should 'just work', yes
[09:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> i run 15 clients off a 3 gig p4, 2 gig of ram.
[09:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> and doesnt break a sweat
[09:40] <willvdl> hey all
[09:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi willvdl :)
[09:41] <willvdl> anyone ever used any of the HP thin-clients?
[09:44] <willvdl> compaq evo's to be more precise
[09:45] <RichEd> hi will ... the terminal boxes, the size of a phone book ?
[09:46] <willvdl> yeah
[09:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> compaq evos? using some now.
[09:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> unless you mean hardware thin clients - these are netbooted desktops
[09:46] <willvdl> http://tinyurl.com/axtzw
[09:47] <willvdl> e.g. t5125
[09:47] <willvdl> they have a 2.4 kernel in, supprtx-terminal, ica, rdp
[09:47] <willvdl> support x-terminal
[09:48] <willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser, are you etherbooting them off an edubuntu server?
[09:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> willvdl, i'm pxe booting desktop pcs
[09:49] <willvdl> sorry, meant hardware TC's
[09:49] <RichEd> willvdl: there was a norwegian outfit using these for a managed education solution ... they also sorted out how to get into the firmware, and load Linux and OpenOffice so that the device was usable even if the network was not available
[09:50] <willvdl> aha. I'm trying to figure out if it is better to run them as netbooting thin-clients (aka LTSP) or as embedded devices running remote x-terminals
[09:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> much of a muchness
[09:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> ltsp=secure connections though
[09:56] <willvdl> well, one could use ssh tunneling?
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, if you can be bothered
[09:57] <willvdl> and if it's all in one room then security is not really a problem...kind of
[09:57] <willvdl> actually looking for path of least resistance
[09:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> if they netboot, tahts what i would be using
[09:58] <willvdl> if one *had* a bunch of terminals with various terminal emulators built into the flash, might it not be better to use that as opposed to configuring for netboot?
[09:58] <willvdl> ah, thanks
[09:59] <willvdl> I wonder if it's possible to use the flash RAM as local storage...
[10:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> dinner!
[10:07] <highvoltage> willvdl: an edubuntu thin client will see it as a local hard disk
[10:08] <willvdl> cool
[10:13] <willvdl> highvoltage, what yatc's have you used in "production"?
[10:13] <highvoltage> yatc's?
[10:15] <willvdl> yet another thin-client (your term :) )
[10:16] <highvoltage> d'oh!
[10:17] <highvoltage> mostly a variety of via thin clients. they are producing some cool stuff at the moment.
[10:17] <highvoltage> we got a bunch of hp's too that we wanted to use as diskless fat clients, but they were just a little underpowered.
[10:18] <willvdl> hmmm, I'm presuming I'm going to use HP stuff since, hey, it's HP doing it :)
[10:18] <willvdl> yeah, the via stuff did look cool. what was the cost?
[10:23] <highvoltage> :)
[10:24] <highvoltage> via stuff is quite cheap, I don't have exact prices (rand/doller changing, etc)
[10:24] <highvoltage> but a thin client with a C3 1ghz processor, 512MB RAM, nice 3d display card, is about R600
[10:25] <highvoltage> they run great as full machines too
[10:26] <willvdl> eish, that's good
[10:26] <willvdl> how's their power management?
[10:28] <RichEd> nixternal: you got a tsunami in your areal ?
[10:28] <RichEd> *area
[10:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> wtf?
[10:31] <willvdl> he got the quit message right though :P
[10:32] <pygi> omg!
[10:32] <willvdl> anyone familiar with symbiont?
[10:34] <pygi> highvoltage: +b on nix for a bit? :)
[10:37] <willvdl> battery low. gotto run and find a plug
[10:40] <highvoltage> pygi: ouch, I see
[10:40] <highvoltage> even his quit messages is causing flood
[10:41] <juliux> highvoltage, normal you have to ban him;)
[03:01] <hunmaat> re
[03:01] <hunmaat> so how can I make a terminal user?
[03:08] <RichEd> hunmaat: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
[03:09] <hunmaat> RichEd: i can't find it there...
[03:09] <RichEd> try: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
[03:09] <highvoltage> hunmaat: use the Users and Groups tool under System -> Administration
[03:09] <hunmaat> i did so
[03:10] <highvoltage> hunmaat: does ldm just kick you out again?
[03:10] <hunmaat> it's interesting
[03:10] <hunmaat> it shows a cursor
[03:10] <highvoltage> hunmaat: are you using dapper? did you change the server's ip address at some stage? you might need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
[03:10] <hunmaat> and the login screen again
[03:11] <hunmaat> highvoltage: thank you, works fine
[03:11] <highvoltage> kewl.
[03:12] <hunmaat> my problem was that it doesn't do anything at all...
[03:12] <hunmaat> * didn't :)
[03:12] <highvoltage> it's an LDM bug that will be fixed in the next ubuntu release.
[03:15] <highvoltage> it doesn't tell you what went wrong, it just kicks you back to the login screen.
[03:15] <hunmaat> yup
[03:15] <highvoltage> which isn't very user friendly :/
[06:04] <RichEd> ogra: i found some good news for you on visa ... let me get the link
[06:25] <pips1> ogra: ping
[06:27] <LaserJock> haha, I'm Jordan Amaranth now :-)
[06:27] <pips1> ?
[06:27] <pips1> where?
[06:31] <cbx33> Jordan Amaranth?
[06:32] <LaserJock> on RichEd's email about UDS Mt. View
[06:32] <pips1> heh
[06:35] <pips1> looks like the poor fella has been communicating with too many people in too many channels
[06:35] <pips1> 8-)
[06:35] <cbx33> hrhrh
[06:36] <pips1> LaserJock: did you see ogra join?
[06:36] <LaserJock> nope
[06:36] <pips1> grrr
[06:36] <LaserJock> cbx33: did you see Keybuk's blog post?
[06:36] <cbx33> no.....hang on
[06:37] <cbx33> just gonna read
[06:37] <LaserJock> pips1: he's here
[06:37] <ogra> pips1, sorry busy in -meeting
[06:37] <pips1> oh
[06:37] <pips1> how long will the meeting take ~ ?
[06:38] <cbx33> LaserJock, hahaha
[06:42] <LaserJock> have people heard of the CipUX tool from Debian-edu before?
[06:43] <pips1> well, I have only heard about it on our ml and in the channel, if I remember correctly
[06:43] <pips1> some mail cross-posted from the debian-edu ml
[06:43] <ogra> LaserJock, its a rewrite of the webmin plugin they had before
[06:43] <ogra> with webmin vanishing from debian and ubuntu tehy separeated it
[06:43] <LaserJock> k
[06:44] <cbx33> just drag a selection of files and it'll convrt them to what eer you want ;)
[06:44] <pips1> ogra: you met and talked to the developer of CipUX, didn't you?
[06:44] <cbx33> anyone with any ideas just mail me ;)
[06:44] <ogra> pips1, no
[06:44] <pips1> oh
[06:44] <ogra> and i'm not really thrilled by it
[06:44] <cbx33> is the schedule available for UDS yet?
[06:44] <ogra> cbx33, the schedule will be made every evening for the next day, its dynamically
[06:45] <cbx33> oh right
[06:45] <pips1> ogra: since there is a decent group of education people at UDS (RichEd listed 9 people), don't you think we should add some specs to make it easier for this group to actually find time slots in the schedule?
[06:46] <ogra> ??
[06:46] <ogra> find time slots ?
[06:46] <pips1> basically, you said that we need specs otherwise stuff wont be discussed and wont happen
[06:47] <ogra> LP *assigns* time slots and the schedule with its assignments will be made pucblic
[06:47] <cbx33> was hoping to find out when the SCP spec was going to be discussed
[06:47] <LaserJock> cbx33: you'll have to watch the schedule
[06:47] <ogra> pips1, rigtht but specs that arent in yet are very unlikely to get in now ... we just had the final meeting about them
[06:48] <pips1> ogra: oohhh
[06:48] <pips1> well, here is a list that RichEd put onto the wiki page today:
[06:48] <ogra> thats why i tell you guys to register them since two weeks ...
[06:48] <pips1> 1. Edubuntu Configurations
[06:48] <pips1>    * Existing : Current Edubuntu "bundle / package" is for Primary Schools
[06:48] <pips1>    * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for Seconday Schools
[06:48] <pips1>    * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for University
[06:48] <pips1> 2. Edubuntu-Product-and-Add-On
[06:48] <pips1>    * Does it make sense to see Edubuntu as: Ubuntu base + Edubuntu Add-On
[06:48] <pips1>    * Would this approach assist for the 3 bundle / packages:
[06:48] <pips1>      * Edubuntu Primary
[06:48] <pips1>      * Edubuntu Secondary
[06:48] <pips1>      * Edubuntu University
[06:48] <pips1>      * Would this approach assist with the single CD size constraints
[06:48] <pips1> 3. Ubuntu-Education-Network-Integration
[06:48] <pips1>      * {bring requested features in here}
[06:48] <pips1> 4. Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
[06:48] <pips1>    * {bring requested applications in here}
[06:49] <pips1> 5. Edubuntu-Web-Applications
[06:49] <pips1>    * {bring requested applications in here}
[06:49] <pips1> 6. Ubuntu-Education-Content
[06:49] <pips1>    * {expand this}
[06:49] <LaserJock> pips1: did you really need to paste that?
[06:49] <ogra> that doesnt help if it doesnt match reality ...
[06:49] <pips1> LaserJock: sorry
[06:49] <pips1> ogra: please explain
[06:49] <ogra> we dont have any spec about "Edubuntu Configurations"
[06:49] <LaserJock> pips1: no, problem, but I've been staring at that page all day
[06:50] <pips1> ogra: ^^^is a list of missing specs
[06:50] <ogra> pips1, well
[06:50] <LaserJock> pips1: dude, we can make all the lists we want, but if we can't deliver those and they aren't speced
[06:50] <ogra> what shall i say
[06:51] <ogra> pips1, 1 and 2 totally depend on te result of the edubuntu-on-two-cds spec
[06:51] <pips1> well, I guess that you guys are very pragmatic about it all... but don't you think it is worth getting input on topics? even if it will end up in feisty+1 ?
[06:51] <ogra> i have no idea what 3 shall be
[06:51] <LaserJock> pips1: we already have too many specs
[06:52] <ogra> 4 is something for an edubuntu conf and not appropriate for MV
[06:52] <pygi> pips1: and where is libburn? :P
[06:52] <ogra> whats 5 ?
[06:52] <ogra> 6 is something for universe ...
[06:52] <cbx33> ogra, we don't need an MV....we have you ;)
[06:52] <pips1> ogra: that input you just gave was already helpful :)
[06:53] <nothlit> cbx33, would your applet use mencoder
[06:53] <nothlit> ?
[06:53] <cbx33> nothlit, yes
[06:53] <cbx33> and openoffice
[06:53] <ogra> sad
[06:53] <ogra> that makes it doomed to be in multiverse
[06:53] <ogra> cant you use gstreamer ?
[06:53] <cbx33> hmmm
[06:53] <cbx33> I can try
[06:53] <pips1> ok so we can handle/discuss (1) and (2) in the edubunt-on-two-cds topic, ok
[06:53] <cbx33> think it'll be a good applet to make?
[06:53] <LaserJock> pips1: the problem is we are focusing on UDS Mt. View right now. After that's done we can discuss other things
[06:53] <ogra> pips1, no
[06:54] <cbx33> I'm already a good proportion of the way through doing the stuff I didnt know how to do
[06:54] <cbx33> like dragging and dropping files onto and applet
[06:54] <cbx33> and writing an applet
[06:54] <ogra> pips1, only if we have a finished spec for edubunt-on-two-cds
[06:54] <pips1> hmm
[06:54] <ogra> pips1, before we assign space we need to *have* space
[06:54] <LaserJock> ogra: we can start by making meta-packages for Universe I think
[06:54] <ogra> LaserJock, right
[06:55] <LaserJock> while the CD space is getting worked out
[06:55] <ogra> but thats not specced or assigned to anybody yet
[06:55] <LaserJock> nope
[06:55] <ogra> so i suspect it has to wait for the edu conf
[06:55] <pips1> ha!
[06:55] <LaserJock> well, I was going to start working on it during Feisty
[06:55] <ogra> which will very likely be during the feisty schedule
[06:55] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how much time I'll have
[06:56] <ogra> s we will know by then if we have space and how much that is
[06:56] <pips1> ogra: isn't the (2) spec rather about a fundamental change? or not?
[06:57] <ogra> pips1, 2 is edubuntu-install-profiles
[06:57] <ogra> wildly mixed up with edubunt-on-two-cds
[06:57] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:57] <nothlit> ogra, gstreamer is an encoder as well?
[06:58] <ogra> nothlit, it can be what you want it ... its only a fronend for a plugin system
[06:58] <ogra> its a encoder, recoder, decoder
[06:58] <nothlit> ogra, ahh
[06:58] <pips1> edubuntu-install-profiles wasn't on my radar..
[06:58] <nothlit> ty
[06:59] <ogra> pips1, my fault i missed to assign it to uds-mtv did that during the meeting
[06:59] <ogra> now it should be on all lists
[07:04] <LaserJock> darn it
[07:04] <LaserJock> this is going to be rough
[07:04] <LaserJock> I'm only going to be there for Sunday and Monday
[07:05] <LaserJock> edubuntu-menus-completion is Medium
[07:05] <LaserJock> so I'm guessing it's up for later in the week :(
[07:05] <LaserJock> should we have somebody else draft it?
[07:06] <pips1> ok, so now I got (1) --> discuss at next Edubuntu Summit and (2) --> topic to me discussed as part of the 'edubuntu-on-two-cds' and 'edubuntu-install-profiles' specs
[07:07] <LaserJock> I don't get where "Feature Requests : Existing" came from?
[07:08] <pips1> ogra: (3) is a meta-topic of sorts, to address the overlap of the Ubuntu-Directory specs and the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs. You said yesterday we don't need an extra spec for that, since you will discuss this informally when everyone is in the same room... so let's do it that way.
[07:09] <nothlit> cbx33, do you plan for your applet to be included with gnome? are the only applets developed for gnome included already? or are there others
[07:10] <cbx33> nothlit, not sure
[07:10] <cbx33> I'm planning for it to be included with ubuntu
[07:10] <cbx33> not not sure about gnome
[07:11] <pips1> LaserJock: I agree, I don't understand what RichEd meant by that  "Feature Requests : Existing" block...
[07:11] <LaserJock> pips1: edubuntu-on-two-cds isn't on list of specs at the top
[07:12] <pips1> you are right, let me add it
[07:13] <LaserJock> also ltsp-persistent-home and edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound
[07:13] <ogra> pips1, sigh ...
[07:13] <nothlit> cbx33, how configurable will your applet be? bitrate changing (for audio) res changing ?
[07:13] <ogra> pips1, the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs are about a default setup ubuntu will never provide
[07:14] <ogra> its like ltsp in ubuntu and tsp in edubuntu ...
[07:14] <cbx33> nothlit, yup via preferences
[07:14] <cbx33> obviously I can't do everything
[07:14] <cbx33> I mean's supposed to be a quick and easy applet
[07:14] <ogra> pips1, they are totally different things .... people seem not to get that ...
[07:14] <cbx33> but I'm hoping that a lot of it will be configurable
[07:14] <pips1> ogra: indeed
[07:15] <pips1> ogra: please try to explain a bit ? :-D
[07:16] <ogra> pips1, one is about features the other about configuration of these features
[07:16] <ogra> (and shipping that configuration as default)
[07:16] <pips1> maybe it's useful if you explain it since some folks seem confused about the topic
[07:16] <pips1> oops
[07:16] <pips1> you just did explain
[07:16] <LaserJock> pips1: so I figure with that list at the top we have 60 hrs worth of BOFs
[07:17] <nothlit> how good is the kiosking in edubuntu
[07:17] <LaserJock> not counting drafting and approval
[07:17] <ogra> nothlit, as good that the one of the desktop you use ...
[07:17] <ogra> gnome has sabayon for kiosk, KDE has kiosktool
[07:18] <ogra> ltsp will get a webkiosk mode as well soon but thats indeed different from what you mean
[07:18] <ogra> (i guess)
[07:18] <pips1> ogra: what you say re edubuntu shipping configs. sounds absolutely reasonable :)
[07:19] <ogra> pips1, edubuntu auth server is also about using te existing preferred solution other edu distros use ...
[07:19] <ogra> and thats a point where we might probably clash with the network auth stuff from ubuntu
[07:19] <ogra> but thats something we can only find out in the BOfs
[07:20] <ogra> anyway, i need some breakfast now ...
[07:20] <nothlit> ogra, yeah i was just wondering if it had any special kiosking things because i didn't know about sabayon and the kiosk tool for kde seems pretty developed
[07:20] <ogra> and the other ltsp guys will arrive soon ...
[07:20] <ogra> nothlit, yes, its fine for KDE ...
[07:20] <nothlit> ogra, gnomes website just talks about editing files manually and gconf
[07:21] <ogra> we integrate student-control-panel for ltsp and use pessulus for lockdown operations ... sabayon is rather for system wide profiles ...
[07:21] <pips1> however, the directory server + auth topic seems like a hot potatoe that nobody seems to want to tackle.. for various reasons?
[07:21] <ogra> so we actually have three tools
[07:22] <ogra> pips1, yes, and thats why i insist to use the existing smbldap solution
[07:22] <pips1> right
[07:22] <ogra> i wont sign off a feisty release without a network auth server
[07:23] <LaserJock> pips1: I rather see it as something all of a sudden everybody wants to tacke
[07:23] <LaserJock> *tackle
[07:23] <pips1> well, I guess what doesn't help is that ldap can be used for so many things, not only as a directory server, but network management, etc
[07:24] <pips1> network resource allocatoin
[07:24] <pips1> *allocation
[07:24] <pips1> ack
[07:24] <ogra> LaserJock, i wuld have attacked it in breezy if not tfheen (breezy) and ajmitch (edgy) had said they will do it ...
[07:25] <ogra> err
[07:25] <ogra> tfheen (breezy/dapper)
[07:25] <ogra> now i got tired of waiting and searched for the best solution ... which appears to be smbldap in the educational sector
[07:26] <pips1> I noticed the discussion with Burgwork about it earlier
[07:26] <Burgwork> right
[07:26] <ajmitch> yay, so we'll have two completely different solutions to the problem
[07:27] <pips1> hmm
[07:27] <ogra> ajmitch, no
[07:28] <LaserJock> pips1: student-control-panel-upgrade isn't on the wiki page either
[07:28] <ogra> *if anything comes out* of the server side discussion and i get guarantees we'll se a solution in time for feisty its all fine
[07:28] <ogra> but i dont belive in it yet
[07:29] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm only proposing smbldap because all attempts were unreliable until now and smbladp is a widely used working solution
[07:29] <pips1> LaserJock: I was just busy scrolling up to find the bit where you mentioned the missing specs, so I can update the wiki page...
[07:30] <ogra> ajmitch, i wont accept a *probably ready*
[07:30] <pips1> heh
[07:30] <pips1> erm LaserJock could you possibly update the wiki page with the spec you found missing ?
[07:31] <LaserJock> pips1: np ;-)
[07:31] <ogra> mark will shut down edubuntu if we dont have a certain amount of market share in the edu sector .... this feature is to essential to not have it *now*
[07:31] <ajmitch> right
[07:31] <ogra> s/certain amount/certain amount within one year/
[07:31] <pips1> noted
[07:31] <ogra> we have a deadline so i cant accept any "probably"
[07:31] <ajmitch> ogra: it's probably quite wise to go with smbldap for feisty at least
[07:32] <ogra> right
[07:32] <pips1> aha
[07:32] <ajmitch> since I really don't think there'll even be a good 'probably ready' server solution for feisty in ubuntu
[07:32] <ogra> thast why i push for it and invited both upstream devs ;)
[07:32] <pips1> heh
[07:32] <ajmitch> most of the focus so far in specs has been client-side, what do you plan to use for that?
[07:33] <ogra> its very likely that the client side will be compatible with what ubuntu will build in feisty so we can probably drop the edubuntu spec for that, but we'll see that during the conf
[07:33] <ajmitch> so most likely the stuff I've done for configuration
[07:33] <ogra> apart from that, smbldap is a all in one solution, it also has the client parts if we want them
[07:34] <ogra> its a very good fallback ;)
[07:34] <ogra> anyway, got to go now ... later ....
[07:34] <ajmitch> bye
[07:34] <ajmitch> see you in MV :)
[07:34] <ogra> when will you arrive ?
[07:34] <pips1> It was good to get this discussion advanced a bit, me thinks :)
[07:35] <ajmitch> saturday evening
[07:35] <ogra> great :)
[07:35] <ajmitch> well, saturday lunchtime, I think
[07:35] <ajmitch> staying with whiprush
[07:35] <ajmitch> so not at the same hotel
[07:35] <ogra> ++
[07:36] <ogra> well, hotel desnt really matter if we are locked up at google all day anyway :)
[07:36] <pips1> ogra: just to answer your question from above quick
[07:37] <ajmitch> assuming we even get network-authentication spec scheduled
[07:37] <pips1> (5) is about discussing web apps to include in edubuntu (think moodle et al), but I think this will be more appropriate for the Edubuntu summit...
[07:37] <ajmitch> still a bunch of specs with no priority for scheduling
[07:38] <ogra> pips1, no
[07:38] <pips1> ogra: ?
[07:38] <ogra> that should have been specced properly its a packaging and development effort
[07:38] <pips1> oh
[07:38] <ogra> moodle isnt includable as is
[07:39] <pips1> :-/
[07:39] <ogra> it needs tons of changes before which means we divert from debian
[07:39] <ogra> and which means we need to spec the development for ti
[07:39] <ogra> *it
[07:39] <pips1> right
[07:39] <Burgwork> ogra: what was the website again?
[07:40] <ogra> ask RichEd if he can make up a spec and beg at mdz for accepting it even though we're past that already
[07:40] <pips1> i guess we will discuss it at edubuntu summit and then need to spec it for the feisty+1 timeframe
[07:40] <ogra> Burgwork, ?
[07:40] <Burgwork> ogra: the smbldap one
[07:40] <ogra> Burgwork, its linked on the spec
[07:42] <pips1> ogra: RichEd is doing final preparations for his departure tomorrow noon time.. The only possibility would be for me to submit the spec draft and then have RichEd make a push for it, but you know what? I think it's way too late..
[07:43] <ogra> pips1, well, it would be good to have that spec ...
[07:43] <pips1> users ask for moodle since the beginning...
[07:43] <pips1> ... and it's is definitely on its hype peak here in ch
[07:45] <ogra> right, so its worth pushing it
[07:45] <pips1> personally, I'm not fond of it for various reasons, but I guess it is a relatively good all-in-one solution that supports a teachers "class-centric" world view ..
[07:46] <ogra> its the commonly used solution in education so the same arguments as for smbldap apply
[07:46] <pips1> i.e. the main structuring element in moodle are "courses"
[07:46] <pips1> right...
[07:47] <pips1> hmm
[07:48] <pips1> ogra: so you really think this spec would get traction so late in the game? and do you think anybody would sign up?
[07:48] <highvoltage> pips1: you have a link?
[07:49] <pips1> for what?
[07:49] <highvoltage> the spec
[07:49] <pips1> it doesn't exist!
[07:49] <highvoltage> ah, ok.
[07:50] <ogra> pips1, well, if you want to see moodle integration its good to have a spec ... even if mdz denies it for inclusion *now* we'll have it there for feisty+1
[07:50] <ogra> anyway ....
[07:50] <ogra> bbl
[07:50] <highvoltage> l8rs ogra
[07:50] <pips1> ok, cu
[07:52] <pips1> I was considering plopping up a sec for a minute or two, but I don't feel I can get a reasonable spec on such short notice.
[07:52] <pips1> s/sec/spec
[07:53] <highvoltage> pips1: perhaps it's a good idea to at least get something up
[07:53] <pips1> ahh
[07:53] <pips1> peer pressure ;-)
[07:53] <highvoltage> some of the specs that currently exist are *very* basic and bare
[07:53] <pips1> yeah I know
[07:54] <LaserJock> man I hate wiki tables
[07:54] <highvoltage> LaserJock: me too!
[07:54] <pips1> that's probably also a reason why everybody says that there are way too many specs..
[07:54] <highvoltage> especially on the *huge* pages
[07:54] <pips1> :-)
[07:55] <LaserJock> ok, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UdsMtvEdubuntu
[07:55] <pips1> great!
[07:58] <highvoltage> I don't understand https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fully-automatic-swap-server
[07:59] <highvoltage> with all my last tests swap over NBD worked right out of the box?
[08:00] <pips1> glad you are saying that, it got me confused here too :-)
[08:02] <pips1> I got to relocate
[08:02] <pips1> bbl
[08:23] <ogra> highvoltage, what we have in edgy is a workaround, not the solution described in the f-a-s spec
[08:25] <highvoltage> just saw the comment ;)
[08:26] <highvoltage> I'll have to look at the code... I must admit I never looked deeper into it, since it 'just worked'.
[08:26] <highvoltage> although, now I'm more interested in it
[08:32] <ogra> it appears to me that it would meake sense to improve the script, even its not the proper solution it will make it easier to integrate encryption for example
[08:32] <ogra> thats why we need to discuss again
[08:33] <ogra> edgy doesnt offer swap size for example ... it only uses a fixed size 32MB swapfile
[08:36] <ogra> pygi, wrong channel ;) edubuntu wont see composite stuff ....
[08:36] <highvoltage> ogra: aah, when you mentioned the encryption it all came back to me
[08:36] <pygi> ogra: I know ^_^
[08:36] <pygi> ogra: I'm just saying :P
[08:37] <highvoltage> 32MB is ok for thin clients, but when the local apps and fat clients becomes available they will need more. of course, we've already discussed this :)
[08:37] <highvoltage> pygi: where do you need more than 32MB network swap atm?
[08:38] <highvoltage> pygi: if your setup is so manual that you need more, then you can just as well manually adjust your swap ^_^
[08:38] <ogra> Burgwork, looking at lat i must admit that i find edsadmin a lot cleaner UI wise ....
[08:38] <pygi> highvoltage: you sure you talking to me? :P
[08:39] <highvoltage> pygi: ah, sorry, getting tired here. thought you were talking about swap when you were talking about Beryl :)
[08:39] <ogra> highvoltage, thats the point, you cant adjust it at all atm
[08:39] <nothlit> is this channel mostly an edubuntu-dev channel?
[08:40] <Burgwork> nothlit: a bit of everything
[08:40] <ogra> nothlit, as well as edubuntu support and general edubuntu talk
[08:40] <highvoltage> nothlit: it's mostly *everything* edubuntu :)
[08:40] <nothlit> ahhh kk
[08:40] <ogra> (and a little bit of ltsp)
[08:40] <highvoltage> nothlit: although, non-edubuntu specific support questions are refered to #ubuntu, normally
[08:47] <Burgwork> ogra: lat alsl has some stability issues
[08:57] <pips1> back
[09:10] <cbx33> hey guys....starting a linux comic strip...in my spare time....http://www.progbox.co.uk/comic/ - worth the effort of should I not give up the day job ;)
[09:12] <highvoltage> whatch our eler!
[09:12] <highvoltage> :)
[09:13] <LaserJock> cbx33: you have a day job?
[09:13] <cbx33> hahah
[09:13] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:13] <cbx33> brb...getting a dvd
[09:13] <highvoltage> cbx33: i have some trouble reading your handwriting at places
[09:14] <highvoltage> s/our/out/
[09:15] <cbx33> hehe
[09:15] <cbx33> I'll probably re do them
[09:16] <cbx33>  if it's worth it
[09:16] <cbx33> ;)
[09:16] <cbx33> what ya think?
[09:17] <pygi> cbx33: you played with beryl? :)
[09:26] <pips1> ogra: I'm drafting the moodle spec
[09:27] <ogra> pips1, great
[09:28] <ogra> assign it to RichEd ;) so he has a spec as well (indeed he wont implement it but lead the discussions ;) )
[09:28] <LaserJock> haha
[09:40] <cbx33> pygi, havei  played with beryl
[09:43] <cbx33> heheh
[09:43] <cbx33> I have a video on google about it ;)
[09:43] <pygi> :P
[09:43] <pygi> I'm trying to install ubuntu on my laptop right now
[09:51] <pips1> ogra: you have mail
[09:52] <cbx33> highvoltage, http://progbox.co.uk/comic/comic1-edit2.jpg
[09:53] <ogra> pips1, looks fine
[09:53] <ogra> submit it
[09:53] <pips1> ok
[09:55] <ogra> oh, and subscribe me as essential subscriber to it
[09:55] <ogra> since i'll likely be required for the tech side
[09:55] <pygi> cbx33: can you check for me do we have network-manager on cd on ship?
[09:57] <pips1> ah, finally I found it
[09:59] <pips1> ogra: do I leave the Approver field blank?
[09:59] <ogra> yep
[10:01] <pips1> oh, I need to create a seperate wiki page before submitting the spec.. ?
[10:02] <pips1> ok, it makes sense... after all, you are supposed to start drafting the spec before submitting it on LP...
[10:03] <LaserJock> pips1: well, you can give it a name, you don't have to make the wiki page immediately
[10:08] <LaserJock> pips1: what's the url?
[10:08] <pips1> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/moodle-for-edubuntu
[10:08] <pips1> ogra: do I need to add / change anything ?
[10:09] <pips1> what about:
[10:09] <pips1> * Change status
[10:09] <pips1> * Change priority
[10:09] <pips1> * Edit whiteboard
[10:09] <pips1> * Propose as goal
[10:09] <pips1> * Target milestone
[10:09] <pips1> * Request feedback
[10:09] <pips1> * Subscribe yourself
[10:09] <LaserJock> looks good to me
[10:09] <ogra> looks fine
[10:10] <pips1> :)
[10:10] <pips1> now I need to email RichEd about it
[10:10] <pips1> heh
[10:11] <ogra> he's asignee
[10:11] <ogra> so he should have gotten a mail already
[10:11] <pips1> ah, ic
[10:11] <pips1> that's nice and easy
[10:12] <ogra> if you make a wikipage for it, please note that the debian packaging isnt feasable for us and needs ajor changes
[10:12] <ogra> *major
[10:12] <pips1> how come the spec doesn't show up on https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs ?
[10:12] <ogra> the way it is it wot get accepted by the scurity team
[10:13] <ogra> *security
[10:13] <ogra> because its not approved
[10:13] <pips1> ah
[10:13] <ogra> it needs mdz or sabdfl approval
[10:13] <pips1> it's in mdz queue or something, ah, ok
[10:14] <pips1> I need to talk to RichEd tomorrow about it..
[10:47] <hunmaat> bye
[11:47] <Char_Aznable> hi
[11:47] <Char_Aznable> anyone here?
[11:47] <ogra> sure
[11:48] <ogra> 29 ppl according to my xchat
[11:48] <Char_Aznable> eh i got a question
[11:48] <Char_Aznable> is there anyway i could know my ubuntu version?
[11:48] <Char_Aznable> like desktop or server
[11:49] <ogra> lsb_release -a
[11:49] <ogra> but that question is better suited for #ubuntu
[11:50] <Char_Aznable> hum ok thanks
[11:50] <ajmitch> ogra: you're in SF now? how is it?
[11:50] <ogra> i'd say cool ... but its rather warm :)
[11:50] <ogra> and a bit rainy
[11:51] <cbx33> it's freezing cold here
[11:51] <cbx33> literally
[11:51] <ajmitch> probably much the same as dunedin this week, which is good :)
[11:51] <ogra> here its something around 16-18C
[11:51] <ajmitch> yeah, 16C here today
[11:51] <ogra> (felt)
[11:51] <ajmitch> I'm wrong, 19 at the moment  :)
[11:51] <ogra> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/flash_stream.html <--- seen that ?
[11:52] <ogra> MS will sell SLES
[11:52] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:52] <ajmitch> quite a surprise
[11:52] <ajmitch> I wonder how much is talk :)
[11:52] <ogra> changing the world ...
[11:54] <cbx33> *bah* sound is too screwed up for me
[12:04] <crimsun> ?
[12:05] <crimsun> what "sound" in particular?
[12:05] <ogra_> crimsun, flash
[12:05] <ogra_> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/flash_stream.html
[12:05] <ogra_> its an encoding issue i think
[12:06] <crimsun> I get nothing with Flash 9 beta on Edgy
[12:07] <cbx33> what no sound at all?
[12:07] <ogra_> i get the livestream on 7
[12:07] <crimsun> no sound, no video
[12:07] <cbx33> eeek
[12:08] <ogra_> sound is delayed though
[12:08] <cbx33> I'm on the...firefox auto installed version
[12:08] <ogra_> i'm with the ubuntu package
[12:08] <crimsun> probably a firewall issue here
[12:12] <Burgwork> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html
[12:12] <Burgwork> faw
[12:12] <Burgwork> faq, rather
[12:14] <cbx33> how can I easily grab an entire website
[12:14] <cbx33> for example there is no download for these docs http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-libs/html/


[13:15] <BluesKaj> howdy folks
[13:25] <pillow> G'mornin
[14:26] <dscassel_>  Morning, BluesKaj, pillow :)
[14:26] <BluesKaj> hey dscassel_
[14:32] <dscassel> BTW, if you're not on the mailing list, I'm attempting to bribe people to run Ubuntu Hours. :D https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-ca/2011-May/008785.html
[14:32] <dscassel> No takers yet.
[14:39] <BluesKaj> too far away from me
[14:39] <dscassel> No no, see... You host it wherever you are.
[14:39] <dscassel> I suppose if you're miles away from everything, it can get a bit tricky.
[14:41] <dscassel> I could be convinced to send indidual CDs to people who send me CD-sized SASEs...
[14:41] <bregma|holiday> I think the other guy around here with a computer runs Wdinows exclusively
[14:42] <BluesKaj> I don
[14:42] <dscassel> Heh. :)
[14:44] <BluesKaj> I don't have my laptop atm , daughter has it till she gets a new apartment , then we'll ship her imac, otherwisw not much portability here :(
[14:45] <dscassel> Laptop is optional, although I cling to mine like a safetly blanket. And it's handy for demoing things if people ask. :)
[14:47] <staticsafe> good morning folks :)
[14:47] <BluesKaj> hi staticsafe
[14:48]  * staticsafe is installing the latest 0AD alpha
[14:48] <dscassel> Ooh, can it do multi-player yet?
[14:49] <staticsafe> dscassel: not yet unfortunately
[14:49] <dscassel> Bummer.
[14:49] <dscassel> We need a decent RTS for our LAN parties. :D
[14:50] <staticsafe> hmm
[14:50] <staticsafe> dscassel: rather old school but - http://openra.res0l.net/
[14:54] <dscassel> Cool, thanks. :)
[14:55] <dscassel> We've been sticking to what's in the repos. Which isn't much...
[14:56] <dscassel> (RTS_wise, anyway)
[14:57]  * staticsafe is waiting for the game to finish compiling :)
[15:39] <staticsafe> dscassel: nvm it does have multiplayer :)
[15:39] <staticsafe> but it's still alpha so I wouldn't suggest it
[15:40] <dscassel> staticsafe: Still awesome. I'll have to give it a try...


[15:17] <qense> hello
[15:18] <newz2000> salut
[15:19] <newz2000> My wife has little appreciation for geeky humour
[15:19] <newz2000> oh well
[15:20] <newz2000> I was going to tell you my pun about how saying "typography is important" is a bold statement but I don't think it translates well onto IRC


[01:48] <pleia2> jose: woo, someone I went to high school with is now living in Lima \o/ (her father is from Peru, so I reached out to see if she had local recommendations, didn't realize she lived here now!)
[01:48] <pleia2> I'm so looking forward to ubuconla <3
[02:08] <nhaines> +1
[02:12] <jose> pleia2: woohoo!
[04:56] <Kilos> hi svij nhaines and others
[05:40] <svij> hi Kilos
[05:56] <nhaines> Hi, Kilos.  :)
[05:56] <Kilos> hi JanC dpm
[07:13] <dholbach> good morning
[07:16] <MooDoo> morning
[07:24] <Kilos> hi dholbach
[07:24] <dholbach> hey Kilos
[07:25] <Kilos> oh my and MooDoo :)
[07:43] <MooDoo> :)