[00:06] <stgraber> infinity: hmm, i386 is still oversized (just did a rebuild), that's odd... I was expecting amd64 to be bigger than i386. Checking that the cleanup properly happened on it. If it did, I'll spend some more time tomorrow trying to figure out what's taking the space on it
[00:08] <infinity> stgraber: It wasn't in the archive yet.
[00:08] <stgraber> infinity: it was, at least according to rmadison
[00:08] <infinity> stgraber: Or, nevermind.  I can't read timestamps.
[00:08] <stgraber> anyway, /var/lib/apt/lists has been properly cleaned, so it's something else
[00:08] <stgraber> for some reason our i386 image is indeed taking more space than amd64...
[00:08] <infinity> Curious that i386 would be bigger.
[00:09] <infinity> Same package set?
[00:09] <infinity> +xserver-xorg-video-geode	2.11.13-2build1
[00:10] <infinity> +libstlport4.6ldbl	4.6.2-7
[00:10] <infinity> Oh, and i386 includes another locale (de)
[00:10] <infinity> Dropping de from i386 would probably fix you.
[00:10] <infinity> Not sure how much space each langpack set takes.
[00:11] <stgraber> oh, I must have been blind... I checked for extra locales and missed that one apparently
[00:11] <stgraber> that clearly explains it then
[00:11] <stgraber> IIRC from my last try, a locale is around 6-7MB compressed space
[00:12] <infinity> I'm curious about libstlport4.6ldbl, though...
[00:13] <stgraber> geode + libstlport is roughly 1MB uncompressed
[00:13] <infinity> It's in ubuntu-desktop on i386 only...
[00:13] <infinity> Oh, ure depends on it on i386.
[00:14] <infinity> Anyhow, dropping de is probably the right answer.  Having amd64 and i386 support different languages is weird anyway.
[00:15] <infinity> stgraber: Seed change committed.
[00:17] <stgraber> ok, thanks. I guess Seb probably won't complain too much about us dropping German when it already wasn't shipped on amd64
[00:17] <infinity> Actually, wait.
[00:18] <infinity> A seed change can't fix this, can it?
[00:18]  * infinity scratches his head.
[00:19] <infinity> Since we install ubuntu-live as a task, via apt-get, and changing the seeds won't change the Task headers in the release pocket..
[00:19] <infinity> Oh, but we have new langpacks in -updates, and they'll trump that.
[00:20] <stgraber> unless we magically end up pulling the old ones from the release pocket
[00:20] <infinity> Might need to release a package to -updates to force a regen of the Packages files, though. :P
[00:20] <stgraber> I can probably find one, wait a sec ;)
[00:20] <infinity> accountsservice looks good.
[00:21]  * infinity releases that.
[00:22] <stgraber> sounds good, and that one is really useful as it should fix quite a few install failures
[00:23] <infinity> If we need another one later, unity-greeter looks like another one that's ready.
[00:24] <infinity> And python2.7
[00:24] <stgraber> ubuntu-docs should also be fine, I just need to check that it still installs and that's about it
[00:26] <infinity> Why do we have one langpack sitting in proposed?
[00:28] <stgraber> according to rmadison, we have more than one
[00:28] <infinity> All I see is en...
[00:28] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/seeds/ubuntu.precise$ rmadison language-pack-fr-base | grep precise
[00:28] <stgraber> language-pack-fr-base | 1:12.04+20120417 |       precise | source, all
[00:29] <stgraber> language-pack-fr-base | 1:12.04+20120508 | precise-updates | source, all
[00:29] <stgraber> language-pack-fr-base | 1:12.04+20120801 | precise-proposed | source, all
[00:29] <stgraber> I agree that pending-sru doesn't agree with that
[00:29] <infinity> So, the sru report is on crack.
[00:29] <stgraber>             # for langpack updates, only keep -en as a representative
[00:29] <stgraber>             if (pkg.startswith('language-pack-') and
[00:29] <stgraber>                 pkg not in ('language-pack-en', 'language-pack-en-base')):
[00:29] <stgraber>                 continue
[00:29] <infinity> Yeah, I just got there. ;)
[00:29] <stgraber> nope, it's doing what it's supposed to, it's just not telling people on the page ;)
[00:31] <infinity> Tempted to add a counter to that, and list "language-pack-en (and 731 others)"
[00:32] <infinity> Or even better, just "731 language packs", and not list -en at all.
[00:32] <infinity> Cause that code will fail miserably if we SRU a non-en langpack.
[00:32] <infinity> It'll just "disappear".
[00:33] <stgraber> sounds good. Wondering how much slower the script would be if it'd also extract the bugs from these and show a unique list of bugs for all the langpacks. (Assuming we might one day see a langpack fixing a bug)
[00:34] <slangasek> the changelogs themselves are autogenerated
[00:34] <slangasek> so I don't think so :)
[00:34] <infinity> Only a manual update would ever fix a bug.
[00:34] <infinity> Which we've had once or twice.
[00:34] <infinity> But it's pretty rare.
[00:34] <stgraber> anyway, disappearing for a couple of hours. If you want to kick an i386 build to test the seed change, have fun, otherwise I'll wait for cron to do that for me and check tomorrow.
[00:35] <infinity> I'm considering a short nap.
[00:35] <infinity> Which is, I agree, not as exciting as building ISOs, but it's right up there.
[00:48] <cyphermox> slangasek: yes, there is the possibility that another instance might have dbus already, though no package currently ships such a configuration; it could be done by a user. that would constitude a regression then
[00:48] <cyphermox> stgraber: ^
[00:49] <cyphermox> slangasek: the reason I went with using dbus for dnsmasq rather than actually changing when NM restarts dnsmasq is that such changes have already been done upstream, but are rather very intrusive, some 14 or so commits in the upstream source repo
[00:49] <cyphermox> disclaimer, I'm in a coffee shop on battery right now, not my usual place either, connection may be spotty.
[00:52] <cyphermox> as for the routing table issue, I'm not certain it's an issue really, just different behavior on the kernel side.
[00:55] <cyphermox> afaict the dbus config for dnsmasq works properly. I seem to recall seeing something about dnsmasq being started as root then dropping privs, not sure if that would actually explain why the policy works.
[01:11] <cyphermox> supporting a different dbus name didn't look *hard* but does seem to involve some mucking around that I wasn't looking forward to doing; the code is pretty complicated; but it can be done.
[01:11] <cyphermox> I could also just ask upstream to look into it, though that might take a bit of time
[01:22] <infinity> stgraber: Hrm.  There might be more magic involved in manipulating tasks in post-release pockets (or it might just plain not be doable).  I think I'd rather ask Colin than try to trace it. :P
[02:15] <stgraber> infinity: ok, I'll try to remember to poke cjwatson about it tomorrow before our team meeting, or during the team meeting if I forget :)
[02:22] <stgraber> infinity: do we still have stuff requiring two publisher run to happen? I vaguely seem to remember that being the case in the past
[03:48] <stgraber> slangasek: hmm, the cd dist upgrader is really in pretty bad shape... update-notifier-common uses patch but doesn't depend on it (in lucid at least) and even if it was there, it'd fail to apply the patches (not sure they're actually needed). Then it fails to resolve the upgrade and fails...
[03:49] <stgraber> the cdromupgrade script on the cd at least doesn't have the patch bug, though resolving still fails
[04:54]  * micahg looks around for infinity
[05:04] <micahg> infinity: nevermind, will wait until morning
[05:29] <slangasek> stgraber: update-notifier-common uses patch /at runtime/?
[05:29] <slangasek> trippy
[05:30] <slangasek> stgraber: does cddistupgrader run from within the package, not from the copy on the CD?
[07:01] <tumbleweed> infinity: me. and patches are welcome
[07:01] <tumbleweed> but whining at me won't do much right now. holed up in bed, sick
[08:29] <jamespage> morning all
[08:30] <jamespage> would an archive admin be able to review the walinuxagent package in the precise-proposed NEW queue please
[08:30] <jamespage> this package is already in quantal; its required to enable use of azure IaaS on precise
[09:10] <cjwatson> ScottK: your copy-package change makes sense to me.  (This is an example of UI that I thought was completely broken in the Launchpad scripts, but I was starting off the client-side versions with the same UI and figuring people would fix it once they got annoyed ...)
[09:13] <cjwatson> stgraber,infinity: nothing runs germinate over stable series at all right now.  I'm not sure how we'd go about changing tasks post-release ...
[09:23] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, I have a theory that if Task headers change in updates/proposed (ie: because of the combination of a seed change and a newer package version), then apt might honor that.  I haven't tested this theory.
[09:23] <infinity> cjwatson: But yes, one would need to germinate for post-release pockets to make that work.
[09:23] <infinity> (And it may still not work)
[09:24] <cjwatson> If Task headers change, you might be right.  But right now I don't think they will.
[09:25] <cjwatson> I guess we could fall back to installing metapackages if we have no choice ...
[09:25] <infinity> No, they definitely don't change right now, because there's no germinating for non-devel releases.
[09:26] <infinity> Installing metapackages seems like a potentially uglier hack than just removing langpack-de in a precise-only live* hack.
[09:26] <cjwatson> Yeah.
[09:28] <cjwatson> Hm, why does /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-misc/more-extra.override.precise.main have a recent timestamp?
[09:28] <cjwatson> Oh, cronscripts/publishing/cron.germinate fiddles with it for Supported overrides.
[09:28] <cjwatson> You could edit /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-misc/more-extra.override.precise.main in place when the publisher isn't running.    We always used to get a few of them here and there in older post-release pockets, but now we get a ton of 'em.
[09:31] <infinity> I didn't spend much time looking at it, except to look at some of the whined-about line numbers to determine that nothing looked broken.
[09:31] <cjwatson>    char Line[500];
[09:32] <cjwatson> libmng1/powerpc Task    ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, kubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-active-desktop, kubuntu-active, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop-kde, edubuntu-usb, xubuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-master, mythbuntu-backend-master, ubuntustudio-generation, ubuntustudio-video, ubuntustudio-audio-plugins, ...
[09:32] <cjwatson> ... ubuntustudio-publishing, ubuntustudio-photography, ubuntustudio-graphics, ubuntustudio-recording
[09:32] <cjwatson> -> 507 chars
[09:32] <infinity> Oh, special.
[09:32] <cjwatson> Note that the line numbers are off by one
[09:32] <cjwatson> (Well, zero-based)
[09:33] <cjwatson> Ahaha
[09:33] <cjwatson> apt-cache show libmng1
[09:33] <cjwatson> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, kubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-active-desktop, kubuntu-active, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop-kde, edubuntu-usb, xubuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-master, mythbuntu-backend-master, ubuntustudio-generation, ubuntustudio-video, ubuntustudio-audio-plugins, ubuntustudio-publishing, ...
[09:33] <cjwatson> ... ubuntustudio-photography, ubuntustudio-graphics, ubuntustudio-reco
[09:33] <cjwatson> Truncation is *not* IRC's fault
[09:33] <infinity> Oh, even more special!
[09:33] <infinity> So it is actually causing a real-world bug then.
[09:33] <infinity> Awesome.
[09:34] <infinity> Bumping that buffer up to 1024 seems like it wouldn't be rocket surgery.
[09:34] <infinity> Or some other arbitrary number.
[09:35] <cjwatson> Yeah.
[09:36] <infinity> SRU to precise (for if cocoplum ever gets upgraded), and backport to hardy-cat?  Profit.
[09:36] <cjwatson> lucid-cat, I hope.
[09:36] <infinity> Err, yes.  That one.
[13:10] <stgraber> slangasek: from what I could see, inserting the cdrom prompts the user asking whether they want to start the package manager, upgrade or cancel. If they select upgrade, then the cdromupgrade script that's in /usr/lib is called, not the one from the media.
[13:11] <stgraber> slangasek: and that one does runtime patching of files in the upgrader tarball and fails to do so either because of the missing patch package or because of the no longer valid patch
[13:12] <stgraber> slangasek: in either case, the UI starts without any of the changes being applied, so no real harm done, luckily
[13:12] <stgraber> then we have the problem that we are apparently missing around 400 packages on our media to make a succesful lucid to precise upgrade without internet usage
[13:12] <stgraber> I attached the full package list to the bug. Quite a bunch are transitional packages (as expected) and a few are binaries and libraries for stuff that we dropped
[14:20] <jamespage> please could walinuxagent be rejected from the precise-proposed NEW queue - I need to put a target architecture restriction on it...
[14:24] <bjf> skaet: the precise kernel has passed all testing
[14:26] <skaet> thanks bjf!  :)
[14:40] <slangasek> stgraber: well, removing some of those old packages is also an acceptable outcome for an upgrade... it doesn't have to actually upgrade each of them
[14:43] <xnox> slangasek: stgraber: from Ubiquity design doc. If there is no network the upgrade option is presented as "Upgrade Ubuntu to 11.04 [maps to reuse]
[14:43] <xnox> Documents, music, and other personal files will be kept. System-wide settings will be cleared. Warning: Some installed software may be removed unless you connect to the Internet before continuing."
[14:44] <slangasek> xnox: this is the alternate CD, not the desktop CD
[14:44] <xnox> sure. I hope it still does give a ~ similar warning though?
[14:45] <stgraber> xnox: yeah, it shows a warning
[14:51] <cjwatson> It's more like the update-manager UI
[16:01] <stgraber> can someone from the SRU team review mythtv in the queue please? it's targeted for 12.04.1 and has an MRE
[16:03] <slangasek> looking
[16:11]  * stgraber pokes queuebot
[16:11] <stgraber> oh, stuck in LP authentication for some reason...
[16:41] <micahg> infinity: was your overwrite of platform.quantal intentional (seems to have all the changes)?
[16:41] <micahg> infinity: oh, sorry, not you
[16:41] <micahg> zul: ^^
[16:42] <zul> micahg: ?
[16:42] <micahg> zul: your update removed 3 revisions and pushed one that seems to include all the changes
[16:42] <cjwatson> Please use bound branches for the seeds
[16:42] <zul> micahg: no it wasnt
[16:42] <cjwatson> That way you won't find yourself having to merge
[16:43]  * micahg just does a bzr pull before modifying anything
[16:43] <cjwatson> You can convert your existing branch to a bound branch (aka checkout) using 'bzr bind :parent'
[16:43] <cjwatson> Then a commit will (a) automatically push (b) refuse to commit if you're out of date
[16:46] <game2> xnox / micahg, can you look at bug 1016438 ?  I was asking if it would make 12.04.1.
[16:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016438 in precise-backports "Please backport btrfs-tools 0.19+20120328-3 (main) from quantal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016438
[16:46] <zul> cjwatson: done
[16:46] <micahg> game2: backports aren't tied to the point release schedule
[16:46] <cjwatson> ta
[16:47] <micahg> game2: let's move to -devel
[16:52] <stgraber> yay, queuebot works again (not sure why the auth token suddenly became invalid...)
[17:41] <slangasek> superm1: see #ubuntu-devel for mythtv review comments... looks like a FTBFS to me
[17:41] <slangasek> oh, superm1 is here, that's not the highlight I meant to trigger ;)
[17:41] <slangasek> stgraber: ^^
[18:25] <stgraber> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1136656
[18:26] <stgraber> slangasek: the added Breaks in launchpad-lib indeed fixed that part of the issue, though there seems to be a pretty big mess around network-manager, gnome-bluetooth, gnome-settings-daemon and some icon themes (just looking at the last few lines)
[18:35] <slangasek> stgraber: libnspr4 is at the root of it
[18:42] <stgraber> slangasek: they don't seem to have direct conflicting contents, though they certainly provide the same library (libnspr4 has been multi-arched), should I try to downgrade that Conflicts to a Breaks?
[18:42] <slangasek> stgraber: libnspr4-0d is a transitional package demoted to universe; libnspr4 in precise conflicts with the old one; evolution-data-server still wants libnspr4 apparently
[18:42] <slangasek> Breaks would still mean "cannot configure", which would result in a similar failure to calculate the upgrade
[18:44] <slangasek> ah, it's the old version of e-d-s... so it goes back even farther
[18:44] <slangasek> libcamel-1.2-29
[18:44] <slangasek> er, no, I'm getting tangled
[18:48] <slangasek> ah, it's evolution-plugins
[18:54] <slangasek> stgraber: please try the same trick here: have libnspr4 Breaks: old evolution-plugins to hint it out of the way
[18:55] <stgraber> slangasek: ok, will try. I have the next batch of breaks if you want to have a look (tried by simply adding libnspr4-0d to my local archive to bypass that problem)
[18:55] <slangasek> stgraber: Breaks: evolution-plugins (<< 3.2.0-0ubuntu2) should work
[18:55] <slangasek> sure, hit me :)
[18:56] <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1136706
[19:01] <slangasek> stgraber: that one looks like it might be easier... seed libgnome2-0 into the pool?
[19:01] <stgraber> slangasek: "Fixing libnspr4:amd64 via remove of evolution-plugins:amd64" <- looks like that did the trick
[19:01] <slangasek> tada
[19:02] <slangasek> will you prepare uploads to these packages adding the Breaks?  I can review them today
[19:02] <stgraber> yep, once I can get that upgrade running, I'll push the SRUs
[19:02] <slangasek> excellent, thanks :)
[19:05] <stgraber> slangasek: next batch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1136717
[19:05]  * stgraber will really need to commit that dist-uprader change to allow external repositories. Having to patch the code every time is getting annoying ;)
[19:05] <slangasek> man, hardly seems like we're making any progress :P
[19:06] <stgraber> hehe, yeah... I'll have to check with jibel that this kind of stuff is tested by QA a bit earlier next time so we have some time to fix the mess ;)
[19:08] <slangasek> looks like none of the OOo transitional packages are on here
[19:08] <slangasek> (for the libO rename)
[19:08] <slangasek> so a bunch of those probably need added
[19:08] <slangasek> how are we on size for the alternate?
[19:09] <stgraber> we have around 3MB of free space, at least on the amd64 one
[19:11] <slangasek> openoffice.org-emailmerge, openoffice.org-core look to be the key transitional packages; both should be small of course
[19:11] <slangasek> you may need more of them to get an upgrade to libO instead of just a removal of OOo :P
[19:12] <stgraber> except that openoffice.org-core doesn't exist in precise
[19:12] <slangasek> really?
[19:12] <slangasek> huh
[19:12] <stgraber> yep, we have a whole bunch of transitional package but that's not one of them
[19:12] <slangasek> so that's possibly unhelpful
[19:13] <slangasek> ok; the openoffice.org package should be quick enough to SRU if we think we need it, since that's just the transitional packages
[19:15] <stgraber> yay for having a source just for the transitional packages
[19:15] <stgraber> I was kind of worried we'd need to upload libreoffice for that
[19:18] <stgraber> building openoffice.org-core here, will add all the binary packages from openoffice.org to my local archive, see if that does the trick
[19:28] <stgraber> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1136755
[19:28] <stgraber> I hope we won't need a lot of the openoffice transitional package because at 120K a package that's 21MB if we need the whole lot...
[19:32] <slangasek> 120k?  eep
[19:32] <slangasek> how is it 120k?  OOo-writer is only 4k
[19:33] <infinity> slangasek: build-essential uploaded for bug #1034568 ... I'll let you and stgraber decide if it should be targetted to .1 or not (though I see no harm in letting it through)
[19:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034568 in build-essential "build-essential shouldn't be Multi-Arch: foreign" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034568
[19:33] <slangasek> infinity: cheers
[19:33] <infinity> slangasek: Other than the bug closure in the changelog (and the version number), it's identical to the quantal version.
[19:34] <infinity> stgraber: 120k?  I'm assuming that's a local build without a truncated changelog, or any other binarymangling magic?
[19:34] <slangasek> ah right, that would do it
[19:34] <slangasek> stgraber: yeah, the real packages are only one-inode-big after changelog truncation :)
[19:37] <stgraber> oh, indeed I don't appear to have pkgbinarymangler installed, that'd explain it
[19:38]  * infinity is strangely proud that his "mangler" namespace has survived all these years without someone insisting on renaming it to something more "professional". :P
[19:38] <slangasek> stgraber: ok, this one's tricky.  vinagre was a dep of ubuntu-desktop in lucid; in precise it's been replaced by remmina.  But vinagre is still in the archive (in universe) so we can't just make it a transitional package
[19:38] <slangasek> the ideal upgrade path here is to remove libvte9 and vinagre on upgrade
[19:38] <seb128> slangasek, hey, what do you think it's the limit to take a decision on whoopsie on,off for LTS .1?
[19:39] <seb128> slangasek, and do you have an opinion on who,how we will decide?
[19:41] <slangasek> seb128: I think that's a decision that could be made up to the final freeze for .1.  However, I would much rather see the pain points addressed (which ev is working on) so that we can keep it enabled
[19:42] <slangasek> seb128: from your perspective, what's the threshold we should be meeting to keep it enabled?
[19:43] <stgraber> slangasek: do you know how to force the removal of libvte9 and vinagre in the dist-upgrader? I added both to the ForcedObsoletes list but that one seems to be used at a later point, so the initial resolving still fails
[19:44] <slangasek> stgraber: I indeed do not have a good (clean) way to force their removal
[19:44] <slangasek> I said that was the ideal... but I don't think the ideal is reachable here :)
[19:44] <slangasek> an alternative is to bring libvte9 (the gtk2 version) into the pool
[19:44] <slangasek> well, wait
[19:45] <slangasek> the end of that log shows vinagre being removde
[19:45] <slangasek> which is correct
[19:53] <seb128> slangasek, sorry I got distracted by other thing ... threshold, it's difficult to say, we don't have enough number
[19:54] <seb128> the discussions are mostly based on direct feedback, online comments, online article and personal experiences
[19:55] <seb128> those brings info but we have no way to know if they are an accurate reflect of the majority's opinion
[19:57] <seb128> slangasek, my gut feeling is that we still have way too many prompts for valid or buggy reasons and that this move is detrimental to Ubuntu's image rather than beneficial for the LTS
[19:57] <seb128> this move = keeping whoopsie running
[19:58] <seb128> users just hate being prompted about random issues
[20:10] <slangasek> seb128: I don't think this is something that can reasonably be decided by gut feeling.  There will always be some number of users who are annoyed at seeing the prompts, and those are going to be the most vocal *about* the prompts
[20:11] <seb128> slangasek, who would be in the project best placed to fix a target for an acceptable error prompt rate? the TB?
[20:11] <slangasek> ultimately they would decide, if we can't agree ourselves :)
[20:11] <seb128> what do you suggest is the best way forward to get to an agreement?
[20:12] <seb128> it's a shame nobody cared to try to step up to do those whoopsie improvements earlier
[20:12] <seb128> one week before .1 is very late to get any result
[20:12] <slangasek> you didn't raise the issue until now
[20:12] <seb128> (and I did discuss those issues with ev in private and raised them at .1 weekly meeting over a month ago)
[20:12] <slangasek> ah
[20:13] <seb128> slangasek, that's not true
[20:13] <seb128> nobody picked them up
[20:13] <seb128> I think I mentioned it in some of the release team summary email sent on friday for desktop as well
[20:13] <seb128> it's just that until somebody does a fuss about it everybody is so busy that they get ignored
[20:14] <seb128> well anyway it's late to argue on that, but I can show meeting logs where I raised it, and at several instance
[20:15] <seb128> it just happens that nobody in the .1 meeting had an opinion
[20:15] <slangasek> so let's pick a number that we think is acceptable for an "average" user interaction with whoopsie
[20:15] <slangasek> and then we can figure out what it takes to achieve that
[20:15] <seb128> works for me
[20:15] <slangasek> is an average of 1 crash a week acceptable?
[20:16] <infinity> I must be using my computer wrong, cause I haven't seen a whoopsie prompt in months. :/
[20:16] <slangasek> I see them regularly
[20:16] <seb128> infinity, ls /var/crash ... empty?
[20:16] <infinity> seb128: Aye.
[20:16] <slangasek> but I also am running quantal, and *want* to see them when things go wrong
[20:16] <seb128> slangasek, 1 a week would be great, I would settle for around 3 to 5 a week
[20:16] <infinity> seb128: 3 to 5 per week is likely where we're already at.
[20:17] <slangasek> (and for several releases I haven't seen any problems with software crashing on session shutdown)
[20:17] <seb128> infinity, we said average is 1.45/day
[20:17] <seb128> no?
[20:17] <infinity> (That previous assumption of 10 per week was based on reaaaaaly bad math)
[20:17] <seb128> which is 10 a week
[20:17] <slangasek> seb128: no, the average is 1.45/day /among users who report them/
[20:17] <slangasek> on that given day
[20:17] <seb128> slangasek, take in mind that apport cut out reports after 3 reports
[20:17] <slangasek> the graph is misleading, as I said on the list; ev is working on getting is better data
[20:17] <infinity> Yes, but it's per day, per-reporting-user.
[20:17] <seb128> so that bias the stats a lot
[20:18] <infinity> So, any user who has a day where the same thing crashes twice, boom.
[20:18] <infinity> That's not 10 per week.
[20:18] <slangasek> seb128: we don't know that it biases the stats a lot, we only know that it /could/ bias the stats a lot :)
[20:18] <infinity> That's what we call someone who needs to take a statistics course. ;)
[20:18] <seb128> slangasek, that's part of the issue, we have too much unknown s
[20:19] <seb128> like how many report are dismissed
[20:19] <seb128> how many are invalid and not sent
[20:19] <seb128> how many are cut by outdated depends
[20:19] <slangasek> we could also explicitly look at how many of the crashes are a user reporting the same crash three times
[20:19] <slangasek> outdated depends should only affect launchpad bug reporting, not crashdb
[20:20] <slangasek> the crashdb is meant to collect everything it can
[20:20] <slangasek> precisely so that we have as much data as possible for the analysis
[20:20] <seb128> ok
[20:21] <seb128> so do we have an idea how many report the average user receive atm in the end?
[20:21] <slangasek> so the only ones that won't show up are 1) crashes that have shown more than 3 times, 2) crashes the user has explicitly chosen not to submit
[20:21] <slangasek> seb128: sorry, not sure what you're asking
[20:22] <seb128> slangasek, you said "<slangasek> is an average of 1 crash a week acceptable?"
[20:22] <seb128> slangasek, what's this number atm?
[20:22] <seb128> i.e from where do we start?
[20:22] <slangasek> we don't know, ev is generating another index across the database so we can answer this
[20:23] <seb128> ok
[20:23] <seb128> so I think we need to wait on that number to decide on an acceptable target
[20:23] <slangasek> (s/index/mapping/, technically)
[20:23] <slangasek> why do we wait?
[20:23] <seb128> but yeah, 1 a week would be fine for me
[20:23] <seb128> because we don't know where we stand
[20:23] <seb128> maybe we are under 1 a week?
[20:23] <slangasek> I think the target should be judged on its own right according to what we think is a reasonable experience
[20:24] <seb128> I would say 3 a week is fine
[20:24] <seb128> 1 is better
[20:24] <slangasek> the only reason to wait is if we're starting from the assumption that the current rate is too high even though we don't know what it actually is ;)
[20:24] <seb128> if we are over 3 we need to do something
[20:24] <seb128> my guess is that we are >> 3
[20:25] <seb128> (I'm not a normal user, bug I can't start a guest session here without having one for example)
[20:25] <slangasek> my guess is very different :-)  but for my part, I'm happy to agree that 3/week/user is a reasonable limit for the average
[20:25] <seb128> ok, let's agree on 3 then
[20:26] <seb128> what's next? ;-)
[20:26] <slangasek> next is to get the results of ev's query
[20:26] <slangasek> and see where we are vs. that limit
[20:26] <seb128> ok
[20:26] <slangasek> and discuss ways to reach it
[20:26] <seb128> any ETA for that?
[20:26] <slangasek> ev: ^^ do you know when we can expect the new mapping to be done?
[20:27] <slangasek> seb128: my shot-in-the-dark ETA is "this week"
[20:27] <seb128> which still work for the "take a decision on time for .1"
[20:27] <seb128> the hard freeze is end of next week
[20:29]  * slangasek nods
[20:29] <slangasek> btw, how does apport even know the same crash has been seen 3 times?
[20:30] <slangasek> since /var/crash itself is periodically emptied
[20:30] <seb128> what is the period?
[20:30] <slangasek> weekly
[20:30] <seb128> it has a counter in the .crash
[20:30] <seb128> it's to avoid having the same issue nagging you every 10 minutes until end of time
[20:30] <seb128> so it's 3 times by week :p
[20:30] <slangasek> right
[20:31] <slangasek> so in fact, if we're taking an average over 90 days, the apport limit is probably not a factor
[20:32] <seb128> well, ev is talking about removing it because he considers it a bug
[20:32] <seb128> it could make some issues pop a lot more
[20:33] <seb128> like you could go from 3 prompt a week to 25 because of 1 bug
[20:33] <slangasek> right... I think there would be push-back against making that change in an SRU
[20:34] <seb128> yeah
[20:34] <seb128> hum, need to get online, be back in a few minutes
[20:52] <seb128> re
[20:57] <stgraber> slangasek: hmm, can't figure out what's going on with vinagre, so looking at the hpijs/libhpmud0 one for now...
[20:58] <slangasek> yes, I think the vinagre part may be a red herring entirely
[20:59] <slangasek> actually, I'm not sure either of those should be fatal for the upgrade calculation
[21:01] <stgraber> oh, actually the log is telling me why
[21:01] <stgraber> "The package 'screen-resolution-extra' is marked for removal but it is in the removal blacklist."
[21:03] <stgraber> though that error is just plain weird... the package isn't part of a default install on precise, so I'm not sure why it's part of the blacklist
[21:03] <stgraber> "blacklist expr 'screen' matches 'screen-resolution-extra'" <- that'd be why...
[21:04] <stgraber> changed to ^screen$, retrying with that
[21:05] <stgraber> slangasek: success!
[21:05] <slangasek> sweet :)
[21:05] <stgraber> well, it's failing because my local archive isn't signed, but I'm taking that as a sign that the resolution part worked
[21:06] <stgraber> ok, so we "just" need an SRU of launchpadlib-integration, nspr, seeding libgnome2, adding openoffice.org-core to openoffice.org + seed some of these and update update-manager
[21:06] <stgraber> sounds trivial ;)
[21:06] <slangasek> yep! :)
[21:06]  * stgraber adds bug tasks
[21:06] <slangasek> all in a day's work
[21:07] <slangasek> for the launchpadlib-integration and nspr SRUs in particular, I think the regression-test should include a full run of jenkins upgrade testing
[21:07] <slangasek> both o->p and l->p
[21:07] <stgraber> sounds good
[21:09] <stgraber> I'll also add a depends on patch to the upgrader as it's clearly using it (the fact that it fails just happens to be another bug)
[21:15]  * slangasek nods
[21:23] <scott-work> skaet:  for 12.04.1, do we need to report test results on iso.qa website?
[21:23] <skaet> scott-work, yes please.
[21:23] <skaet> please report under precise-daily
[21:23] <scott-work> if so, are the daily images (and therefore the test cases) changing daily as well?
[21:24] <skaet> scott-work,  images are changing daily,  but we can look at it historically and see over date range.
[21:24] <scott-work> skaet: copy that, thank you
[21:48] <bkerensa> =/
[21:48] <bkerensa> The requested URL /ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/DevelReleaseAnnouncement.html was not found on this server.
[21:48] <bkerensa> ?
[21:49] <slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ anything to do with your meta-release changes today?
[21:49] <slangasek> bkerensa: what were you doing when you saw this message?
[21:49] <infinity> slangasek: No, it has to do with the last upload of the dist-upgrade being broken.
[21:49] <slangasek> ah
[21:50] <bkerensa> slangasek: why I was upgrading a system to 12.10 of course
[21:50] <bkerensa> :D
[21:50] <infinity> Someone didn't run pre-build.sh (or it failed to do what it's meant to).
[21:50] <bkerensa> ahh I better not upgrade then
[21:50] <bkerensa> =/
[21:50] <stgraber> infinity: I'm about to do a dist-upgrader upload to quantal
[21:50] <stgraber> (for another bug)
[21:50] <infinity> stgraber: Great, make sure pre-build.sh DTRT, then. :P
[21:50] <infinity> And the above bug will be solved at the same time, and everyone can rejoice.
[21:50] <bdmurray> slangasek: no and I'm fixing it now
[21:51] <bkerensa> can someone ping me when dist-upgrade is working :) it would be much appreciated
[21:51] <slangasek> ok :)
[21:51]  * bkerensa should just subscribe to quantal-changes
[21:51] <slangasek> bkerensa: that error only pertains to the release notes, which should certainly not impact the upgrade unless there are other bugs
[21:51] <infinity> bdmurray: You and stgraber both seem to be fixing it. :P
 slangasek: No, it has to do with the last upload of the dist-upgrade being broken.
 ah
[21:51] <bkerensa> ^
[21:51] <bkerensa> so its just release notes?
[21:52] <infinity> bkerensa: Yeah.  As in, the source package didn't contain the html files.
[21:52] <bkerensa> ah
[21:52] <bkerensa> kk
[21:52] <bdmurray> infinity: I'll stop then
[22:06] <cjwatson> ScottK: Hm.  A thought about your copy-package change.  How is one now supposed to copy from a PPA into the primary archive?
[22:08] <cjwatson> ScottK: See e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Publishing_packages_from_the_ubuntu-mozilla-security_public_PPA (which I was about to update to drop the .py until I noticed this problem).
[22:08] <ScottK> Give me just a minute and I'll look.
[22:11] <cjwatson> I wonder if we need a --to-primary switch or something.
[22:12] <cjwatson> Also, --to-partner should probably suppress the default propagation of --ppa to --to-ppa, and vice versa.
[22:12]  * stgraber wonders if he'll ever get one of mvo's pre-build.sh to run fine the first time around
[22:14] <ScottK> cjwatson: I was considering that if --to-ppa-name was missing, one could assume it was to the primary archive, but I like --to-primary better as I think it's good to be explicit about that.
[22:15] <ScottK> I can implement that and the partner changes, probably tonight.
[22:17] <cjwatson> Excellent, vociferous agreement.  Thanks.
[22:17] <cjwatson> I just removed copy-package.py from LP, so I was checking for leftovers ...
[22:18] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/loc-cum.png attempting to leave a decent-sized mark in the LP codebase size
[22:21] <cjwatson> Hmm.  scripts/ftpmaster-tools/obsolete-distroseries.py seems like the sort of thing perhaps best not exposed over the API.
[22:21] <cjwatson> Then again, derived distros, maybe.  But I don't think I've ever run that on Ubuntu ...
[22:21] <ScottK> Right, so if there isn't a commit from me tomorrow morning, please re-ping me.  I'm about to go out for dinner and should be able to have a look after.
[22:21] <cjwatson> OK.  Thanks again.
[22:22] <stgraber> infinity, bdmurray: debdiff between what I'm uploading to quantal now and the previous version is quite big, but comparing to the one before that, it looks reasonable, so I "think" I did the right thing and we're back to a working source package :)
[22:22] <stgraber> now to try to achieve the same thing with the precise one...
[22:26] <stgraber> gah... wth did someone thing it was a good idea to check that the update-manager test suite is a child of a process called "init"?
[22:27] <stgraber> running in arkose, pid 1 isn't called init!
[22:27] <infinity> stgraber: That's a bizarre check...
[22:29] <stgraber> yeah... anyway, bind mounting a file on /proc/1/cmdline should do the trick for now
[22:37] <stgraber> oh nice ... the release upgrader in quantal FTBFSed ...
[22:39] <stgraber> (obviously it's building fine on my machine, wouldn't be fun otherwise)
[22:40] <stgraber> ah, caused by the LANG=C on the builder
[22:41] <stgraber> oh, I know what the bug is ;) apparently you're not allowed to have unicode in your name...
[22:41]  * stgraber changes name quickly to test an easy workaround
[22:43] <bkerensa> anyone by chance know which package dist-upgrade is?
[22:43] <cjwatson> ubuntu-release-upgrader, in quantal
[22:43] <cjwatson> it used to be in update-manager
[22:43] <bkerensa> kk
[22:44] <stgraber> cjwatson: any idea on how to quickly fix ubuntu-release-upgrader's setup.py to not explode when parsing my name?
[22:44] <stgraber> (or I'll just drop the accent and upload, I don't really care that much)
[22:45] <cjwatson> Can you show me how to reproduce the explosion?
[22:45] <bkerensa> cjwatson: any idea how to file bugs against it? When I ubuntu-bug ubuntu-release-upgrade it says package does not exist
[22:45] <cjwatson> Spell it correctly.
[22:45] <cjwatson> (missing "r")
[22:46] <bkerensa> same problem
[22:46] <bkerensa> Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist
[22:46] <cjwatson> Maybe it needs a binary package.  Try ubuntu-release-upgrader-core.
[22:46] <bkerensa> k
[22:47] <bkerensa> bingo
[22:49] <stgraber> cjwatson: have some utf-8 (like my é) in debian/changelog, run python3 setup.py with LANG=C
[22:50] <stgraber> cjwatson: setup.py calls "dpkg-parsechangelog --format rfc822" which returns my name in the Maintainer field and crashes the python script
[22:50] <infinity> stgraber: Get a less French name.
[22:51] <bkerensa> :D
[22:51] <knome> stgraber, é <3
[22:51] <cjwatson> Odd; I wonder why universal_newlines=True isn't sufficient there.
[22:51] <bkerensa> stgraber: we could just call you Stephan Graber ;)
[22:52] <Laney> Grubby Steven
[22:53] <cjwatson> Oh, universal_newlines decodes using locale.getpreferredencoding() and there's no way to override that in subprocess.  Sigh.
[22:53] <cjwatson> stgraber: Er, for now, try using LANG=C.UTF-8 instead?
[22:53] <cjwatson> That's guaranteed to exist and should avoid this.
[22:53] <stgraber> cjwatson: tell that to the buildd ;)
[22:53] <cjwatson> You can do that in debian/rules ...
[22:53] <stgraber> I guess I can override in debian/rules
[22:54] <cjwatson> That's a grotty awkwardness with python3 subprocess, though.
[23:04] <stgraber> bdmurray: hmm, looks like you forgot to commit your precise-proposed upload to the bzr branch...
[23:04] <stgraber> (for update-manager)
[23:06] <bdmurray> stgraber: oh, let me look
[23:06] <stgraber> bdmurray: well, I'll fix the branch for you as I already commited a bunch of changes
[23:06] <bdmurray> stgraber: thanks, sorry about that!
[23:20] <stgraber> gah ... apparently not only are the builders setting LANG=C but also LC_ALL=C ... will need one more upload to fix that mess then (I only exported and tested LANG)
[23:22] <stgraber> can someone please reject that upload ^ I'm going to send a new one with the right -v as there's already an upload in the queue
[23:23] <infinity> stgraber: Sure.
[23:28] <stgraber> and re-uploaded
[23:31] <stgraber> slangasek: that's all the packages for bug 1029531 uploaded to precise and quantal (when applicable). If you're still planning to review today, everything's ready.
[23:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1029531 in update-manager "cdromupgrade from Lucid to Precise failed with unmet dependencies without network connection" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029531
[23:31] <stgraber> I'm going out for a while but should be back around in a couple of hours.
[23:34] <stgraber> yay, ubuntu-release-upgrader actually built this time around!
[23:34]  * stgraber -> out


[05:45] <bduk> More almal
[06:16] <ThatGraemeGuy> mornings
[06:17] <ThatGraemeGuy> shame, too much minetest will be the end of Kilos
[06:44] <Kilos> hi bushtech_ gremble_ jabberwocky_ spekkosupthatkerb
[06:44] <Kilos> ai!
[06:45] <Kilos> superfly, ThatGraemeGuy Kerbero[dsp] and others too
[06:45] <Kilos> late night dont suit my head
[06:46] <superfly> morning Kilos
[06:46] <gremble_> Hello Kilos
[06:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning
[06:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> I was just saying, this late-night minetest is going to do you in
[06:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> when last did you get to bed at midnight? ;-)
[06:47] <bushtech_> Morning Kilos, others
[06:47] <spekkosupthatker> aw too long
[06:47] <spekkosupthatker> hiii!
[06:49] <superfly> haha, ThatGraemeGuy
[06:52] <jabberwocky_> môre Kilos, o/ all
[06:52] <Kilos> lol about 12.30 methinks then head was so sore i battled to get to sleep
[06:53] <Kilos> lol dont mock my typos man save me when im drowning
[06:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> and you kept dreaming of blocks and axes and the damn darkness that keeps messing with your efforts
[06:54] <Kilos> rofl
[06:54] <Kilos> what a wonderful game
[06:54] <Kilos> ty superfly for pointing the ignorant in right direcion
[06:54]  * jabberwocky_ didn't play the game, he had a look at it's source code instead
[06:55] <superfly> jabberwocky_: you're weird :-P
[06:55] <gremble> Isn't the minecraft source obfuscateed?
[06:57] <Kilos> someone came there yesterday sxyyz or something but did greet or stay long
[06:57] <jabberwocky_> superfly: I get that a lot, albeit not too much on IRC :P
[06:58] <jabberwocky_> gremble: not minetest, it's LGPL 2.1
[06:58] <Kilos> most likely didnt read the instructions first
[06:58] <superfly> jabberwocky_: you're not alone ;-)
[06:58] <jabberwocky_> heh ^_^
[06:59] <Kilos> superfly, we got requests please
[06:59] <superfly> requests?
[07:00] <Kilos> add the plugins or addons or whatever they called, for more veggies and tart roads and bridges
[07:00] <Kilos> tar
[07:01] <Kilos> ill form a department of roads and bridges
[07:06] <mazal> Morning everyone
[07:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> i got a new super mifi, yay!
[07:06] <Kilos> hi mazal
[07:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> after the one i got free from afrihost kinda went for an adventure in the washing machine :-(
[07:07] <Kilos> whats a super mifi
[07:07] <mazal> Oom Kilos , I did quick test last night to see if I can connect from Win pc
[07:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> a mifi that is super
[07:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> :-p
[07:07] <Kilos> what is a mifi?
[07:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.stuff.co.za/2014/04/10/huawei-e5730-mifi-our-internet-in-a-box/
[07:07] <mazal> It connects , but doesn't work. Map doesn't open.  I am a minecraft griever. You don't want me on your server
[08:38] <Kilos> oi!
[08:40] <Kilos> we all nice peeps from helpmekaar
[08:41] <gremble> Haha I am not saying that you arent nice, I am saying that I get bored and then I break things
[08:41] <Kilos> haha
[08:42] <kbmonkey> is that what griever means gremble ? Lool.
[08:43] <Kilos> we can use bored peeps to do the deep mining, i get lost down there
[08:43] <gremble> kbmonkey, a griever is a troll in mincraft. Somoene that goes around breaking things and wreaking havoc
[08:43] <Kilos> and kbmonkey is a farmer/gardener
[08:44] <Kilos> and water expert
[08:44] <mazal> Gremble , how do one buy minecraft ? I see it isn't on steam
[08:44] <gremble> No idea. Probably on the website
[08:44] <gremble> My cousin had a subscription that I used
[08:45] <mazal> Ag no , is it one of those yearly pay things ?
[08:45] <Kilos> and the fly is a landscaper
[08:45] <gremble> No
[08:45] <gremble> I think you just buy the game
[08:45] <mazal> Kilos, who build that castle on the island ?
[08:45] <mazal> That's quite good
[08:46] <Kilos> hmm... didnt see that yet
[08:46] <Kilos> the fly has a castle somewhere
[08:46] <Kilos> im still battling to build a house
[08:47] <Kilos> garden boy converted our house into a greenhouse
[08:47] <mazal> I must still find oom's house
[08:48] <mazal> Only found Barry's
[08:48] <Kilos> it hjas a massive staircase right next to it
[08:48] <mazal> I saw that staircase / tower
[08:49] <Kilos> behind it is the basic house
[08:49] <Kilos> building a staircase to heaven
[08:50] <ThatGraemeGuy> I need to find myself a spot and build a house
[08:50] <ThatGraemeGuy> got caught up mining a crapload of mese
[08:50] <ThatGraemeGuy> and iron, copper, gold, coal
[08:50] <Kilos> lol
[08:50] <ThatGraemeGuy> just so tedious to get back up again
[08:50] <mazal> I haven't found anything other than desert rock so far
[08:50] <mazal> But I don't do much digging
[08:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> maybe i should build an underground lair with a network of tunnels and traps
[08:51] <Kilos> mazal, all the good stuff is underground
[08:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> mazal: the good stuff is DEEP underground
[08:51] <mazal> It's easy to get lost there
[08:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> don't start on a hill, get to water level and then dig down
[08:51] <Kilos> ya
[08:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> and away from the water unless you want to drown ;)
[08:52] <mazal> Once yesterday found ThatGraemeGuy by mistake , he wacked the crap out of me with his pickaxe , almost died :)
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> :-o
[08:52] <Kilos> and mark your path all the way with torches
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> when was that? i didn't even notice
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> sorry!
[08:52] <Kilos> rofl
[08:52] <Kilos> habit
[08:52] <mazal> You went right through me. It was when I asked if you need help getting out
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> wesley and i carved out a bunch of underground chambers last night
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'm still down there actually
[08:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> hope nobody flooded that underground maze
[08:53] <Kilos> i got lost twice trying to get down there
[08:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> i was on a mission
[08:53] <Kilos> i did by mining up into the water
[08:53] <Kilos> but kb fixed it
[08:54] <Kilos> he is the water expert
[08:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> i did that, and just quickly turned 90 degrees right and kept going up
[08:54] <Kilos> space swims you up
[08:55] <Kilos> mazal, when youre health is down eat stuff to recover
[08:58] <mazal> I figured that out quickly Kilos
[08:58] <mazal> But all I can find is apples
[08:58] <mazal> I have wheat seed , but no idea how to plant them and make bread
[08:58] <gremble> When you are alone in the dark, run to the Green things, They will protect you
[08:58] <Kilos> find wheat seeds and plant them and make bread
[08:58] <mazal> It doesn't want to plant
[08:59] <mazal> I tried in dirt , sand and grass
[08:59] <gremble> You have to get a hoe to prepare the soil
[08:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://wiki.minetest.net/Bread
[08:59] <Kilos> make a strip of water then make a hoe then plant
[08:59] <Kilos> you gotta plant around a patch of water
[09:00] <Kilos> no hosepipes there
[09:02] <mazal> How do you make water ?
[09:03] <mazal> So I need a hoe , use that on dirt , then I can plant the wheat seed ?
[09:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> mazal: don't listen to gremble, he's talking about minecraft, not minetest
[09:03] <Kilos> you mine water same as other stuff
[09:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> see the wiki link i pasted above
[09:04] <mazal> That's what the wiki say ThatGraemeGuy
[09:04] <mazal> If I read it correct
[09:04] <mazal> Wheat is planted on soil or wet soil. You get soil by using a hoe on dirt
[09:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> ooooh ok
[09:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> sorry, i didn't see the part about the planting
[09:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'll just keep on mining :)
[09:06] <Kilos> we need to make a big central veggie garden
[09:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> and build a massive underground city
[09:06] <Kilos> then we share resources in chests
[09:07] <Kilos> also we need walls around where peeps start mning so i dont fall in
[09:07] <gremble> It is not the same?
[09:07] <Kilos> with gates
[09:07] <gremble> mincraft and minetest that is
[09:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> minecraft is way bigger
[09:08] <ThatGraemeGuy> types of items, etc
[09:08] <Kilos> but minetest is free
[09:12] <gremble> Ah ok
[09:13] <Kilos> and in the repos
[09:14] <gremble> I will stop pretending that I know things then
[09:14] <gremble> xD
[09:14] <Kilos> lol
[09:24] <Kilos> yay the sharks are victorious
[09:24] <Kilos> now to check data before going to minetest
[09:28] <mazal> The wiki is stupid
[09:28] <mazal> At the tools crafting section it doesn't even show hoe
[09:29] <mazal> When searching for hoe , no results
[09:29] <mazal> when searching soil , no results
[09:29] <Kilos> its like a pick but leave out top right stone or whatever
[09:29] <ThatGraemeGuy> Wet Soil is created from Soil when a Water is no further away than two node lenghs from it
[09:30] <Kilos> and add one in centre left
[09:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> nothing about a hoe
[09:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://wiki.minetest.net/Hoe
[09:38] <gremble> CHeers fella's I am going to make some desk space to run through physics questions
[09:52] <mazal> Yay my wheat is planted
[09:52] <mazal> Don't steel it !! That was hard work :P
[09:55] <kbmonkey> ha ha
[09:56] <kbmonkey> I saw you stole my sign from the greenhouse mazal ;)
[09:57] <kbmonkey> it seems as if our minetest world does not have a Jungle biome
[09:58] <kbmonkey> I was hoping to grow some cotton
[10:01] <Kilos> write an addon
[10:02] <kbmonkey> there is one already it needs to be turned on
[10:03] <Kilos> tune the fly
[10:09] <Kilos> oi! kbmonkey how do i make water fill my trench?
[10:10] <Kilos> it looks like blue flowers the way i did it
[10:10] <Kilos> mazal, you just done it tell me how please
[10:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> don't you just put it in there and it flows infinitely?
[10:11] <kbmonkey> Kilos, sorry I dont understand
[10:11] <kbmonkey> i used a bucket to carry water into a hole
[10:11] <kbmonkey> if a node has at least 2 water sources touching it, it also becomes a water source
[10:13] <kbmonkey> Kilos, you building a gator moat around your house?
[10:13] <Kilos> oh my i mined some and then right clicked it into the trench
[10:13] <Kilos> no man im making more garden
[10:14] <Kilos> need lotsa bread with all the falling down i do
[10:14] <kbmonkey> Kilos, 's bakery
[10:14] <kbmonkey> have a bucket?
[10:14] <Kilos> ya somewhere
[10:14] <kbmonkey> left click the bucket in the middle block of water
[10:14] <Kilos> never knew what to do with them
[10:15] <kbmonkey> right click  the bucket to pour it into a hole
[10:15] <Kilos> cool ty my monkey
[10:15] <kbmonkey> but if you get it wrong you will flood your garden. so practice somewhere tlese
[10:15] <Kilos> ok
[10:15] <Kilos> so what does one then do with the mined water
[10:15] <Kilos> its in my repos
[10:16] <Kilos> hehe
[10:16] <kbmonkey> lol
[10:20] <Kilos> whew 3 steel ingots to make a bucket
[10:20] <Kilos> holy moly
[10:20] <Kilos> i had 2 sometime but dunno where i put them
[10:23] <Kilos> invent plastic for buckets it lighter to carry and cheaper
[10:23] <ThatGraemeGuy> good luck carrying lava in your plastic bucket
[10:23] <Kilos> haha
[10:35] <Kilos> aw i died again
[10:35] <Kilos> how do you climb down a ladder
[10:36] <Kilos> was putting ladder on ThatGraemeGuy s tower to go put a light up top and ran outa ladder then fell when trying to go down
[10:36]  * Kilos cries
[10:37] <ThatGraemeGuy> press use button apparently
[10:37] <ThatGraemeGuy> left-click isn't it?
[10:37] <Kilos> ?
[10:37] <Kilos> then i respawn miles away
[10:37] <Kilos> kilos too
[10:38] <Kilos> sigh
[10:45] <Kilos> eeek that dont work
[10:45] <Kilos> now im half way up again
[10:45] <Kilos> mobilemonkey, how do you go down a ladder
[10:46] <mobilemonkey> Hello. Ook ook.
[10:46] <mobilemonkey> Shift descends a ladder
[10:48] <Kilos> no man it keeps going up
[10:51] <Kilos> superfly, how does one descend a ladder please
[10:51] <Kilos> shift keeps taking me up
[10:52] <Kilos> we need air bags to fall onto
[10:54] <mobilemonkey> Did you cgange your key settings? Shift is down by default. Go into settigs from the main page and double check
[10:54] <mobilemonkey> Oh and i find tab is a much better inventory key than i
[10:55] <Kilos> i changed nothing but shift has always been up by me
[10:55] <Kilos> what do you do to go up
[10:59] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[10:59] <mobilemonkey> Spacebar jumps, goes up on ladders and swims up
[10:59] <mobilemonkey> Shift swims down, walks slow and goes down ladders
[10:59] <Vince-0> Haai
[11:00] <Kilos> aw mine dont go down
[11:00] <mobilemonkey> Funny that your shift does the inverse, kilos. Does it also make you jump?
[11:00] <Kilos> yes i jump up steps and swim up with space
[11:00] <mobilemonkey> And shift?
[11:00] <Kilos> oh my
[11:01] <mobilemonkey> Does it also jump?
[11:01] <Kilos> sorry im missing spacebar
[11:01] <Kilos> im using space not shift
[11:01]  * Kilos kicks me butt
[11:01] <mobilemonkey> Missing?  I'd make a paper wallet ASAP if it's a large amount..
[17:30] <superfly> I can't remember, it wasn't a huge amount
[17:30] <superfly> probably worth no more than a few dollars
[17:30] <theblazehen> ah, kk
[18:30] <JabberwockyA19> pulseaduio over network, not ayoba
[18:30] <theblazehen> JabberwockyA19: ya, I know
[18:50] <superfly> pulseaudio is a solution looking for a problem
[18:51] <theblazehen> superfly: True. But only way I know of getting audio over the network
[18:52] <Trixar_za> There's also some ext undelete programs - it uses journaling to recover files from the lost+found directory
[18:53] <Trixar_za> It's pretty effective, but you will lose directory structure
[18:55] <Kilos> superfly, you gonna come look at the lava flow?
[18:56] <Kilos> very quick via ladders
[18:56] <superfly> Kilos: I can pop in briefly
[18:56] <Kilos> next to my staircase youll find a hole with a ladder in
[18:57] <Kilos> when that stops there is another ladder
[19:04] <kbmonkey> Kilos, that is one long drop it is amazing
[19:04] <Kilos> haha and so fast
[19:09] <kbmonkey> ping
[19:11] <theblazehen> PONG
[19:11] <theblazehen> Maaz: SYN
[19:11] <Maaz> theblazehen: Excuse me?
[19:12] <theblazehen> While :
[19:12] <theblazehen> do
[19:12] <theblazehen> echo SYN
[19:12] <theblazehen> done
[19:16] <kbmonkey> lol theblazehen :)
[19:16]  * theblazehen goes to sleep
[19:45] <kbmonkey> how is everyone's mining going?
[19:45] <Kilos> goo
[19:45] <Kilos> good too
[19:46]  * Kilos got gold but no mese yet
[20:11] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[20:12] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[22:12] <Kilos> night peeps. im lost underground. see youall tomorrow. sleep tight


[06:42] <leetcharmer> hihi all
[06:42] <leetcharmer> is there a way to connect to my edubuntu server without making a Thin Client have to boot into it?
[06:42] <leetcharmer> like if it's already on my network
[06:43] <leetcharmer> can I go to the terminal server client in ubuntu to gain access?
[07:24] <elite1_> so how about that edubuntu
[09:29] <ziroday> how well intergrated is ltsp
[09:38] <Burgundavia> ziroday: quite. What sort of integration are you looking for?
[09:42] <ziroday> well i need it to work out of the cd
[09:42] <ziroday> no downloads
[09:42] <Burgundavia> in that case, yes
[09:42] <Burgundavia> get the desktop server cd
[09:43] <ziroday> if i get the error - LTSP Chroot failed what does that mean?
[09:43] <ziroday> and how can i fix it?
[09:45] <Burgundavia> what did you download?
[09:45] <ziroday> i downloaded server edition
[09:45] <ziroday> 7.04
[09:46] <ziroday> install went fine except go to Build LTSP Chroot, it immediately went to 50% then froze, after a bit it said LTSP Chroot failed
[09:47] <ziroday> ltsp never worked
[09:47] <Burgundavia> right, well if the chroot failed, it would
[09:47] <ziroday> well what does that mean/
[09:47] <Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[09:47] <ziroday> *?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> were you following that?
[09:48] <ziroday> no i was just following install instructions given to me on the cd
[09:49] <Burgundavia> and it froze during install?
[09:50] <ziroday> yes it stood at 50% for a long while and then gave me an error message
[09:50] <ziroday> it was at 50% for about 10-15 mins
[09:53] <Burgundavia> have you run a cd test?
[09:53] <ziroday> yes no error
[09:53] <ziroday> *errors
[09:53] <Burgundavia> burn a new cd and try again
[09:53] <Burgundavia> sorry, but I have to sleep
[09:53] <ziroday> ok then thanks for helping anyways
[09:53] <ziroday> thanks
[09:54] <ziroday> its gonna take me 4 days to download cd anyway
[12:10] <ziroday> can anyone help me with LTSP?
[12:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, ask your question, you might get help
[12:11] <ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: didnt work last time :)
[12:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> last time may not have been your day ;), remember people arnt always around
[12:12] <ziroday> i am trying to set up a LTSP server, and i keep getting the error on install that it cant complete step Build LTSP Chroot
[12:12] <ziroday> and this prevents me from running LTSP after install complere
[12:12] <ziroday> *complete
[12:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> have you tried building a chroot after install is finished?
[12:13] <ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: unfortunatly the server is needed in indonesia where internet is still on par with dial up
[12:13] <ziroday> and is constantly interupted
[12:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, hm. is this one fo the 'live cd's or an 'alternate cd'?
[12:16] <ziroday> server
[12:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> so its the blue+red ncurses installer?
[12:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> if you hit alt+f4 (iirc) it will give you a debug console
[12:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> you can look ther efor errors about what coud be causing the ltsp chroot build to fail
[12:20] <ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks
[12:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, gl. let us know how it goes
[12:21] <ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: will do unfortunatly not in indonesia anymore so cant help the NGO
[12:22] <ziroday> :(
[12:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[12:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> while i'm not in the exact position, i understand the problem :|
[12:23] <ziroday> yeah lol
[12:42] <ziroday> does server edition have a gui?
[01:01] <ziroday> is there a easy way to set up a raid which shared space between 3 drives?
[01:01] <ziroday> or is what im asking impossible?
[01:03] <ziroday> is anyone even here?
[01:55] <ari_stress> hi all
[01:55] <ari_stress> wazzup
[01:55] <ari_stress> i'm new here
[01:58] <cliebow> this gent needs to remove shutdown button from gdm
[01:59] <ari_stress> oh, you;re there cliebow :D i didnt notice
[02:00] <ari_stress> cliebow: i'll installed pessulus right after i finish upgrading my feisty
[02:08] <cliebow> good luck..my boating job today so ill be out of touch
[03:15] <ziroday> anybody here?
[03:16] <ziroday> ill take that as a no
[03:16] <ziroday> anybody?
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> ziroday, no one here knows probably
[03:48] <ziroday> Kamping_Kaiser: thakns
[06:24] <kamazu> hi everybody
[06:25] <kamazu> is there someone who could answer me  a question regarding the lts.conf in edubuntu?
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> perhaps.
[06:26] <kamazu> I need to pass XaaNoPixmapCache true to my HP thinclient
[06:26] <kamazu> and the syntax is not clear to me
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. never needed that myself. hang around, someone may be able to help.
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> or try emailling the list
[06:27] <kamazu> I tried X_DEVICE_OPTION_01="XaaNoPixmapCache" "true"
[06:27] <kamazu> I am not sure X_DEVICE_OPTION_01 is supported in edubuntu...
[06:30] <kamazu> thanks Kamping_Kaiser, I might try the mailing list, I was just hoping to get this done now :)
[06:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> good luck with it :)
[09:19] <john_s> Hi all: I want to mount an ext3 formated drive with data under ubuntu, just tossing the hd on an ide channel doesn't work, and ubuntu 6.06 fails with a message about usb errors. Is there some magic I should know when adding drives to my system?
[09:27] <john_s> ls
[09:48] <john_s> where do folks go to get answers to seemingly mundane questions these days?


[18:16] <dhalsim> hello
[18:18] <dhalsimm> anyone knows how to disable an application of using application menu indicator, for example eclipse?
[18:18] <dhalsimm> it has only "file" menu in the indicator applet
[18:19] <dhalsimm> i read in the internet about a blacklist or something but i can't find it in my config files
[18:20] <dhalsimm> i'm using ubuntu 10.10
[18:20] <dhalsimm> hello anyone there?
[18:28] <dhalsimm> so i guess i have to remove it and wait for the next release


[05:17] <pai> i have maverick meerkat on acer aspire one 522 netbook. annoying problem is netbook's speakers, they stay on after i plug in headphone. model option has been edited in alsa-base.conf, but the problem's still there. any help?


[01:50] <tsimonq2> Yeah no, I'm ditching the plan of doing the gammaray update just for the Qt transition...
[01:50] <tsimonq2> I'll do it in Debian then sync later
[01:50] <tsimonq2> But it doesn't need to be done for this transition
[04:12] <tsimonq2> qtwebengine built fine on amd64 so I'm retrying depwait rdeps
[04:12] <tsimonq2> The others, well, we're talking arm* and i386 here, so it might be a bit :)
[04:13] <tsimonq2> But gammaray is fixed, so once qtwebengine builds on those arches and the depwait rdeps have successful builds, it should be good to publish
[04:15] <tsimonq2> I'm pondering leaving Britney overnight and publishing after no-change rebuilds tomorrow morning, but it might just be publishable, then we can have Ben tell us what the missing rdeps are
[04:15] <tsimonq2> It all depends on how quickly qtwebengine will build I think
[04:15] <tsimonq2> Dunno :)
[04:19] <tsimonq2> In fact, nah, it should be good to publish
[04:19] <tsimonq2> It's just a bugfix Qt, so the transition shouldn't take a large amount of time
[04:19] <tsimonq2> Plus, I've gotten release team clearance so we're good
[04:21] <tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg, mitya57: Could one of you please rebuild the remaining depwait packages (if there is any) when you wake up and then publish?
[04:21] <tsimonq2> I can then handle the no-change rebuilds; I'll be around from 13 or 14 UTC and on
[04:23] <tsimonq2> (I have off of school tomorrow \o/)
[04:26] <tsimonq2> Oh, right, before I forget, the block-proposed tag can be removed from bug 1749472 once the packages are published.
[04:27] <tsimonq2> And whoever does publish, *don't mark Finalize on the ticket until it's migrated*, Bileto has nice proposed migration tracking that can tell us which packages have to migrate still ;)
[05:52] <tsimonq2> So I'm going to bed; the only two rdeps that need rebuilding then are qtwebview and pyqt5
[05:52] <tsimonq2> The rest should be good
 @tsimonq2, I woke up. Qt WebEngine is still building, so cannot retry anything yet.
 Sure, no problem
 Will look again in ~3 hours :)
 OK :)
 I'll be sleeping for sure then :)
 NICE, so all of the packages are built
 Checked the lander signoff but meh, it can be published
 Publishing
 \o/
 **gulp**
 I'll look at what Ben has to say when I get home in like 30 mins
 Er... Did it publish?
 Two minutes ago
 Because I got it right only from the third try.
 Ah OK
 What did you have to do in between?
 First regenerate the diffs, second check the ACK packaging button.
 OK
[16:46] <lubot1> nggraham was added by: nggraham
 Welcome!
 thanks!
 https://twitter.com/tsimonq2/status/968531448704720897
 are we targeting 5.9.4 for Bionic? Or starting with that moving onto 5.9.5 in a bit?
 I'll talk with the Release Team, but 5.9.5 if we can make it happen
 cool
 According to today's meeting http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/releasing/2018-February/004615.html, target is to get 5.9.5 out during March
 Right
 But it's bugfix, so it should be fine, right?
 Yes, I think we should aim for having it in Bionic
 I do too
 Maybe even later 5.9.x releases as SRUs, but we need to relax the version check.
 Right


[00:22] <Radios> cool
[01:03] <Radios> noobs
[04:24] <Guest76848> I recently purchased a gamepad to play old games on my ubuntu linux 10.04 LTS machine. i have a logitech F310 and i downloaded three emulators, mupen64plus, zsnes, and GFCE Ultra NES Emulator. I can't seem to get it to work. i installed joystick, and other forums suggest installing jscalibrator but in the terminal is says it can't be found.
[04:25] <Guest76848> does anyone know where i can find a solution to this? i've checked many forums and they've all been duds.
[04:25] <holstein> Guest76848: you dont see it in the terminal when you run lsusb?
[04:25] <Guest76848> it is listed...does this mean it recognizes it and it should be working properly?
[04:26] <Guest76848> my gamepad and my mouse is listed. so it does pick up the connection from the usb port.
[04:27] <holstein> Guest76848: whats the line?
[04:27] <holstein> from lsusb
[04:27] <Guest76848> it says:
[04:28] <Guest76848> bus 002 device 004:
[04:28] <Guest76848> id 046d: c216
[04:28] <Guest76848> logitech, inc. dual action gamepad
[04:28] <Guest76848> thats it
[04:29] <holstein> Guest76848: i have something close to that
[04:29] <holstein> havent used it in years, but i just plugged it in, and it worked, and that was 10.04
[04:29] <Guest76848> which is the version i have.
[04:29] <holstein> i remember having to go in and set it up in all the emulators
[04:30] <holstein> it was a bit of a pain
[04:30] <holstein> worth it though, assuming you need a contoller
[04:30] <Guest76848> yeah, i cant work with pressing a,s,d,f and arrow keys. terrible
[04:30] <Guest76848> well, it seems like im on the right track then.
[04:31] <Guest76848> i just have to work more with the emulators then, i guess the gamepad is ok. i thought it wasnt working.
[04:31] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=464570
[04:31] <Guest76848> do u recommend any emulators?
[04:31] <holstein> nah, im not a gamer really... i play teewords a bit :)
[04:32] <Guest76848> the link says i have to log in...
[04:33] <holstein> well, it just says what we are saying... someone says 'its not working', someone else says 'works for me'
[04:33] <holstein> Guest76848: i would try getting it working with a native game
[04:34] <Guest76848> native game?
[04:34] <holstein> Guest76848: a linux game, on linux, with linux running on metal
[04:34] <holstein> right now, you have a lot of variables
[04:35] <Guest76848> ok, where can i get a linux game?
[04:35] <holstein> where ever you install apps
[04:35] <holstein> software center, or synaptic, or apt
[04:35] <Guest76848> ok.
[04:35] <Guest76848> let me try that.
[04:37] <iloveubuntu29> i have a problem with sound-juicer and i am wondering if you could help me?
[04:37] <holstein> iloveubuntu29: ?
[04:39] <iloveubuntu29> i have 3 DVD-or+RW drives and when ever i try to load them with CDs to rip it always switches drives on me when i insert them while ripping one of them
[04:40] <holstein> iloveubuntu29: sorry, ive never had the opportunity to rip with that many drives in action at a time
[04:40] <iloveubuntu29> oh, should i try ubuntu forums?
[04:40] <holstein> and i dont consume or create many things in disc form these days
[04:40] <holstein> iloveubuntu29: im not sure
[04:41] <holstein> it might not be an issue
[04:41] <holstein> its trying to use the one that is ripping?
[04:41] <holstein> you are opening seperate instances of sound-juicer?
[04:42] <iloveubuntu29> it is switching from the one that is ripping to the one that is not and automaticaly shuts down
[04:42] <holstein> iloveubuntu29: im not sure im following
[04:42] <iloveubuntu29> no only one instance i cannot open multiples in unity
[04:43] <iloveubuntu29> when i had 10.04 lts i could open multiple instances in metacity or compiz
[04:44] <iloveubuntu29> two drives are not ripping only one is.
[04:44] <holstein> so, you have 3 drives... you put a CD in, and you say rip it, and it rips track one, and switches to drive 2 for track2?
[04:44] <holstein> and fails?
[04:45] <iloveubuntu29> it switches from the ripping disk to one that has just been inserted and then shuts down
[04:45] <holstein> iloveubuntu29: ?
[04:45] <holstein> why are you inserting discs?
[04:45] <Guest76848> thanks holstein, working good on my 64 emulator. thanks.
[04:45] <Guest76848> goodnight
[04:45] <holstein> maybe you should *not* do that while its ripping
[04:45] <iloveubuntu29> to rip them i have a large cd collection
[04:46] <holstein> sure, but you cant rip them 2 or 3 at a time that way
[04:46] <iloveubuntu29> no not with unity only with metacity or compiz
[04:46] <holstein> well, log out and log into classic and try it
[05:21] <jciloveubuntu29> has anyone dealt with sound-juicer
[07:58] <LemonAid> Hello !  Q: On my Win7 running PC i left an opened port with, and i connect to with Netcat from my Ubuntu running laptop
[07:58] <LemonAid> That lands me in a CMD shell(as i set it up), but inside that shell i can not start Netcat.
[07:59] <LemonAid> The thing is, that when i do a dir *.exe in the directory i have nc.exe, i can not even find nc.exe, however it is there.
[10:14] <Cavalier> Got a question about raedon HD issues
[10:19] <Nick136> hey all....this channel alive?
[10:20] <jp_Hranice> be in hope :-)
[10:21] <Nick136> Ok so...I'm running 11.04, and I want to upgrade to 11.10 beta 2, I've got the iso., and I've tried update manager, but dusnt want to work, I've also tried to install via live boot usb, but cant get anything to boot via bootloader since I installed 11.04(don't get me wrong not blaming 11.04, it's prob just my own stupidity)
[10:50] <jp_Hranice> My english is not so perfect ... can you boot from USB flash disk ?
[10:50] <jp_Hranice> Too late :-(
[13:27] <holstein> jp_Hranice: sure
[14:00] <pip__> After a recent hardware upgrade - i52500k, z68 mobo & some 1333mhz corsair xms3 ram I can no longer enable desktop effects in 10.10.  I've an HD4870 1Gb GPU & neitther the open source (which I prefer) or fglrx drivers work.  Does anyone hve any ideas as to what the issue may be?
[14:03] <holstein> pip__: you changed the graphics hardware?
[14:04] <pip__> no, the HD4870's been in for a year or 2
[14:04] <holstein> you changed the motherboard?
[14:04] <pip__> oh yes
[14:04] <pip__> board, CPU & RAM
[14:04] <pip__> all changed
[14:04] <holstein> in that scenario, i would try a live CD and see if the desktop effects can be enabled
[14:04] <holstein> i would also try an older kernel
[14:05] <holstein> whatever the next kernel in the list is
[14:05] <pip__> ok.  I'm not on the rig in question at the moment, but I'd not thought of that
[14:06] <pip__> thanks for the input, I'll give it a go when I get home
[14:06] <pip__> :)
[14:07] <holstein> sure... let us know how it goes
[14:09] <pip__> given that 11.10 is so close I was toying with the idea of just giving that release a whirl
[14:09] <holstein> pip__: no reason not too at this poing
[14:10] <holstein> i would still do some testing live though
[14:10] <holstein> i suppose it could be something with the motherboard swap
[14:10] <pip__> I also had some weird internet problems, very slow
[14:10] <pip__> I think you may hav it with the board
[14:10] <holstein> im proposing that you upgraded packages at the same time, and thats what 'broke' the graphics driver
[14:11] <holstein> either way, trying some live CD's with different kernel versions will help you troubleshoot
[14:12] <pip__> excellent, thats my Sunday evening sorted
[14:12] <pip__> :-D
[14:13] <pip__> thanks holstein, I'll drop back in in the next day or so & give a sit rep
[14:13] <holstein> pip__: good luck :)
[14:14] <pip__> tnx
[14:14] <pip__> ttfn
[15:32] <coalwater> anybody with some webmin/virtual min experience?
[15:36] <sebikul> coalwater, i know a bit about webmin
[15:38] <coalwater> well i created a virtual host but still the domain name doesn't resolve for some reason
[15:41] <sebikul> delete the virtual server, i will walk you through the process. i think i know whats wrong, i had the same problem
[15:41] <coalwater> ok 1 second
[15:43] <coalwater> hmm, i think i can't delete it because it's the last one remaining
[15:44] <coalwater> wait, i found it lol
[15:44] <coalwater> sebikul: ok it's gone
[15:44] <sebikul> hehe. when creating the virtual server, leave the "Handle connections to address" as "Any address", put the domain name as "Server Name" and choose the document root
[15:45] <sebikul> then hit the "Create now" button and access the virtual host settings
[15:46] <coalwater> hmmi cant find that in the creation page
[15:46] <coalwater> do i click create server first?
[15:46] <sebikul> these options are shown when creating a virtual host from webmin
[15:47] <coalwater> hm, do i need to create one there befoer using virtual min ?
[15:47] <sebikul> better to use webmin for this
[15:48] <coalwater> ok what do i need to create tthe virtual server
[15:48] <coalwater> i cant find what to click
[15:49] <sebikul> Servers -> Apache Webserver -> create virtualhost
[15:50] <coalwater> there's a virtual server on /var/www
[15:50] <coalwater> do i keep that
[15:50] <sebikul> yeah, keep it. create a folder somewhere else as document root for the new virtual host
[15:50] <coalwater> okay
[15:52] <sebikul> remember to do what i said earlier. leave the "Handle connections to address" as "Any address", put the domain name as "Server Name"
[15:53] <coalwater> do i need to end it with a dot or any thing
[15:54] <sebikul> no
[15:54] <coalwater> hm
[15:54] <coalwater> it still doesn't work sadly
[15:55] <sebikul> now open the settings for that virtual host and go to "Networking and Addresses"
[15:55] <coalwater> ok im there
[15:56] <sebikul> at the right, where it says "Alternate virtual server names" put your domain name as "*.DOMAIN+TLD". ie: "*.example.com"
[15:56] <coalwater> ok
[15:56] <coalwater> save?
[15:56] <sebikul> then hit "Apply Changes" at the top right
[15:56] <sebikul> saving first
[15:57] <sebikul> it should work now
[16:03] <coalwater> apparently i have some messed up stuff lol
[16:03] <coalwater> when i tried to restart apache i got some warnings
[16:12] <coalwater> sebikul: any good way to debug or something
[17:10] <holstein> what is gksudo for KDE?
[17:10] <bioterror> was it kdsu/kdsudo
[17:11] <bioterror> or kdesu
[17:11] <holstein> bioterror: thanks :)
[17:11] <bioterror> !sudo
[17:11] <ubot2> sudo is a command to run command-line programs with superuser privileges ("root") (also see !cli). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information. For graphical applications see !gksu (GNOME, Xfce), or !kdesudo (KDE). If you're unable to execute commands with sudo see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/fixsudo
[17:11] <bioterror> !kdesudo
[17:11] <ubot2> In KDE use « kdesudo <program> » (or « kdesu <program> » for Feisty and earlier) to run graphical applications with root privileges when you have to. Never just use "sudo"! | See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to find out why
[17:12] <holstein> kdesudo should do it then
[18:42] <LemonAid> Hello. Got a little problem Netcat related.. sort of (i think). I`ve detailed it here since it`s sort of a long explaination. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11323019
[18:55] <hiscir> I have recently purchased a printer, a canon LBP2900B, and successfully installed the drivers from the canon site. The printer shows up in the printers list, and even adds jobs in queues, however all the jobs go in the pending state, and the printer doesn't process anything. Here is some info : http://pastebin.com/FHye1sMX
[18:56] <holstein> hiscir: no driver in the repos?
[18:57] <hiscir> holstein: I have installed the drivers from the canon site, they recently provided them.
[18:57] <holstein> hiscir: right
[18:57] <holstein> were there none from ubuntu?
[18:58] <hiscir> holstein: no not from ubuntu repo
[18:58] <holstein> hiscir: if you remove the printer, and go to the printer config, what driver is suggested by the wizard?
[18:58] <holstein> i think thats going to be about all you can do
[18:58] <holstein> try a different driver
[18:59] <hiscir> holstein: will try it
[19:07] <hiscir> http://pastebin.com/yr5kwt12
[19:08] <holstein> hiscir: youve checked out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsPrinters/CanonPrinters/Canon_LBP_2900 ?
[19:10] <hiscir> holstein: yup, but those issues were solved, since canon came up with an update with the driver. The ones mentioned on the site uses an old driver version 1.3, the one available is 2.9
[19:10] <holstein> hiscir: seems like maybe they werent
[19:10] <holstein> did you try this driver?
[19:11] <hiscir> no, haven;t tried this one. /me thinks will give this a try
[19:12] <holstein> maybe http://www.unixmen.com/linux-distributions/ubuntu/229-installation-canon-lbp2900-on-linux is more relevant
[20:37] <BanguBangu> Test
[20:37] <bioterror> was your test succesful?
[20:37] <BanguBangu> hey anyone there
[20:37] <BanguBangu> cool
[20:37] <BanguBangu> it's successfuyl
[20:38] <BanguBangu> i had a feeling I was in a room alone... :(
[20:38] <BanguBangu> but I see on the side that there are other people here...
[20:39] <bioterror> yes, and this is a support channel
[20:39] <bioterror> we mostly talk if there's a reason, for chit chat there's -team -channel
[20:40] <BanguBangu> I understand. I'm new to this! I just installed Ubuntu approximately 30 minutes ago, and I am having trouble getting a wireless connection
[20:40] <BanguBangu> I've looked at a few threads, and googled around. I don't think I've found much that can help me.
[20:41] <BanguBangu> Well, maybe if I looked more, but I figured asking in chat wouldnt hurt
[20:41] <bioterror> what's your problem?
[20:41] <BanguBangu> I'm not able to make any sort of connection at all. Whenever I click on the Network Manager on the top right corner, I am not given any options to connect to any network
[20:42] <bioterror> hmmm
[20:42] <BanguBangu> I've checked to see if my network adpator is recognized
[20:42] <BanguBangu> Opened terminal and entered "iwconfig"
[20:43] <BanguBangu> and information comes up about my adaptor
[20:43] <bioterror> have you run that "hardware drivers"?
[20:44] <BanguBangu> I don't understand what you mean. Also, I'm on win7 right now.
[20:44] <BanguBangu> Since i'm dual booting and can't make an internet connection, I switched back over
[20:44] <BanguBangu> to look for solutions.
[20:45] <bioterror> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/ubuntu-help/net-wireless-troubleshooting-device-drivers.html
[20:45] <bioterror> BanguBangu, you should use your ubuntu with wired connection
[20:45] <bioterror> instead of wireless
[20:46] <BanguBangu> I definitely would do that, but I'm not anywhere near my router
[20:46] <bioterror> hard to help if you're in windows
[20:46] <BanguBangu> and I think what I will do is move to my router and load up ubuntu through there
[20:46] <BanguBangu> so you can help me while I'm on ubuntu
[20:47] <bioterror> propably or someone else
[20:47] <BanguBangu> cool
[20:56] <BanguBangu> hey bio
[20:59] <BanguBangu> Hey can someone help me connect to the internet wirelessly?
[21:03] <bioterror> hi
[21:04] <bioterror> sudo lshw -C network
[21:04] <bioterror> what does it prompt to you?
[21:04] <bioterror> if you open terminal and put that command
[21:07] <BanguBangu> letś see
[21:07] <BanguBangu> *-network                       description: Ethernet interface        product: NetLink BCM57780 Gigabit Ethernet PCIe        vendor: Broadcom Corporation        physical id: 0        bus info: pci@0000:03:00.0        logical name: eth0        version: 01        serial: 00:26:2d:a2:04:36        size: 10Mbit/s        capacity: 1Gbit/s        width: 64 bits        clock: 33MHz        capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_ma
[21:07] <BanguBangu> well thatś sloppy
[21:08] <bioterror> that's not a wireless
[21:08] <BanguBangu> i know
[21:09] <BanguBangu> it cut off my wireless
[21:09] <BanguBangu> hold on
[21:09] <BanguBangu> I have a driver version
[21:09] <BanguBangu> Iḿ looking at at it, and there is a data telling me the driver version
[21:10] <BanguBangu> *-network DISABLED        description: Wireless interface        product: AR928X Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express)        vendor: Atheros Communications Inc.        physical id: 0        bus info: pci@0000:06:00.0        logical name: wlan0        version: 01        serial: 78:e4:00:18:ba:dd        width: 64 bits        clock: 33MHz        capabilities: pm msi pciexpress msix bus_master cap_list ethernet physical w
[21:10] <bioterror> disabled
[21:10] <BanguBangu> Yeah, my next question was to ask
[21:11] <BanguBangu> how to enable my wireless adpator, because my keyboard commands won't do it
[21:11] <BanguBangu> in win7, most can just press Fn+wireless toggler
[21:11] <BanguBangu> itś not working on ubuntu though
[21:13] <BanguBangu> Don't worry about me right now
[21:13] <BanguBangu> I am reading some stuff I googled. I think I may be able to figure it out on my own
[21:15] <bioterror> BanguBangu, what if you say "sudo ifconfig wlan0 up"
[21:15] <BanguBangu> Cool
[21:15] <BanguBangu> it turned on my adaptor
[21:15] <BanguBangu> So I guess Iḿ going to have to do that everytime I boot my ubuntu?
[21:16] <bioterror> you should not have to do it
[21:16] <bioterror> but does it now find wlan access points?
[21:17] <BanguBangu> it does not
[21:17] <BanguBangu> Are yout alking about when I click on the network manager?
[21:17] <bioterror> yeah
[21:17] <BanguBangu> the wireless networks option is grayed
[21:17] <BanguBangu> It says that "wireless is disabled"
[21:18] <bioterror> still :G
[21:19] <BanguBangu> :(
[21:23] <BanguBangu> why in the world
[21:24] <BanguBangu> :(
[21:24] <bioterror> I only see really old problems with that chipset
[21:24] <bioterror> what's your laptop's vendor and model
[21:24] <BanguBangu> Atheros Communications Inc.
[21:25] <BanguBangu> AR928X Wirless Network Adapter (PCI-Express)
[21:27] <bioterror> hey
[21:27] <BanguBangu> ?
[21:27] <bioterror> have you upgraded your system?
[21:28] <BanguBangu> I just did
[21:28] <BanguBangu> Are you talking about my Ubuntu system?
[21:28] <bioterror> yes
[21:28] <BanguBangu> Yes
[21:28] <BanguBangu> I did. I just installed them.
[21:28] <BanguBangu> Oh it sayts I need to restart
[21:28] <bioterror> ;)
[21:28] <BanguBangu> lemme see what happens after I restart
[21:29] <bioterror> let's give it a shot
[21:35] <BanguBangu> That seemed to do the trick bio
[21:35] <bioterror> ;)
[21:35] <BanguBangu> I wish that was one of the first things that would have been said
[21:35] <BanguBangu> oh well
[21:35] <BanguBangu> Thanks though!


[02:54] <peperina> hi
[02:54] <peperina> anybody out there?
[02:54] <lighta> hi peperina yeah ?
[02:55] <peperina> hey there, i'm having some trouble here
[02:55] <peperina> and i needed some help
[02:55] <peperina> i just installed xubuntu 11.04
[02:56] <lighta> and ?
[02:56] <peperina> and when i try to install any program at ubuntu software center
[02:56] <peperina> nothing happens
[02:56] <peperina> the install button goes back to normal and nothing happens =S
[02:56] <lighta> hmm, did you install it from bios ?
[02:56] <peperina> any thoughts?
[02:56] <lighta> as wubi ?
[02:56] <lighta> as usb ?
[02:57] <lighta> tell me more about your installation
[02:57] <peperina> I installed it from cd (i already have installed ubuntu also)
[02:58] <peperina> i installed it along with ubunu, intoanother partition
[02:58] <lighta> ah ok so it's a good install my first guess was that it wasn't a permanent version so it would be normal if you couldn't install any software
[02:58] <lighta> hmm so
[02:58] <lighta> and I guess you're a sudouser ?
[02:59] <peperina> i think so.. being sincere, 3 days ago I was using windows, and I said "I need linux", and here I am
[02:59] <peperina> I'm getting involved with this yet
[03:00] <peperina> but i think i'm a sudo user, (I used commands reccomended in forums starting with sudo and they worked)
[03:11] <peperina> I just solved it, using sudo software-center
[03:11] <peperina> thanks anyway!
[03:15] <bazhang> does xubuntu use gksudo/gksu? or something else
[13:36] <xrdodrx> bazhang: xubuntu uses gksu
[13:43] <bazhang> xrdodrx, thanks
[13:43] <knome> afaik gksudo is as good as gksu
[13:47] <xrdodrx> w/ 1
[14:22] <Sysi> iirc in ubuntu they're just alias to each other
[14:22] <Sysi> !graphicalsudo
[14:22] <Sysi> hrm, what was it
[14:23] <Sysi> !gksu
[14:23] <Inglar> это русски?
[14:24] <Sysi> !ru
[14:45] <Numn> anybody know if its possible too only show the icons instead of the text on the menu if you understand what i mean
[14:45] <TheSheep> you could probably modify a gtk theme like that
[14:48] <Numn> so i cant do that.. if i dont do that you told me=
[14:49] <TheSheep> there may be other ways, but there is no option like that anywhere in the settings
[14:50] <TheSheep> Numn: wait, I assume you are talking about the applications menu
[14:50] <TheSheep> Numn: if you mean the toolbars, then of course there is an option for that
[14:50] <TheSheep> Numn: in the settings->appearance menu
[14:51] <TheSheep> the 'toolbar style' option under 'settings' tab in 'appearance'
[14:54] <Numn> oh ok.. i didnt notice it.. but i use xubuntu right now.. i liked it before i didnt it was possible i think i change back then :D
[14:54] <Numn> i dont use xubuntu right now*
[14:55] <TheSheep> this option was always there
[14:56] <Numn> ok i maybe be in the wrong place.. but lubuntu have the feature and i like xubuntu... i need xubuntu that way cus my computer kinda small to fit that much windows.. if you understand what i mean?
[14:59] <Sysi> if you want taskbar to show only buttons, right-click  → preferences → uncheck "show button title" (on 11.04, with older ones you replace window buttons with iconbox-plugin)
[15:02] <knome> huh
[15:02] <knome> some bug in irssi
[15:02] <knome> /redraw fixed
[15:02] <Sysi> Ctrl L helps usually with screen
[15:03] <Numn> only icons not any text.. but ok.. i should be ready to replace the lubuntu with xubuntu.. :)
[15:43] <s1m0ne> In Ubuntu (GNOME) I could use the middle mouse button for scrolling in Firefox. In Xubuntu (XFCE) i cannot. Is there a way?
[15:44] <s1m0ne> I already tried to change some Firefox settings, but nothing works. Seems to be an XFCE thing
[15:44] <charlie-tca> activate it in firefox preferences?
[15:44] <s1m0ne> Settings are the same now as in my Firefox under GNOME
[15:45] <s1m0ne> oh
[15:45] <charlie-tca> Firefox -> Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced, general, Use smooth scrolling
[15:45] <s1m0ne> there was  one setting (general.autoScroll) I missed that
[15:46] <s1m0ne> thx
[15:46] <s1m0ne> Firefox -> Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced, general, Use auto-scrolling is the right one
[15:47] <Sysi> I wish I could do that smooth scroll with mouse/touchpad (like on mac)
[15:47] <charlie-tca> I don't know what that is. I don't seem to have a mac
[15:48] <Sysi> like that firefox scroll, but happening when you scroll
[15:48] <TheSheep> Sysi: I have a mac and I don't even know what you mean
[15:48] <TheSheep> Sysi: scroll happening when you scroll?
[15:48] <TheSheep> Sysi: that's unnatural!
[15:48] <Sysi> smooth scroll, not per-line scroll
[15:48] <charlie-tca> mine already scrolls
[15:49] <charlie-tca> oh, that
[15:49] <charlie-tca> yes, that would be nice
[15:49] <TheSheep> Sysi: your mouse sends clicks when you scroll
[15:49] <Sysi> it doesn't happen with regular mouse on mac propably, mice don't support it
[15:49] <TheSheep> Sysi: so how would you get a smooth position?
[15:50] <charlie-tca> you don't. You might end up on a half line instead of the line itself
[15:50] <Sysi> TheSheep: it's the same with touchpad?
[15:50] <TheSheep> Sysi: yes if you listen to the system events as you should
[15:50] <TheSheep> Sysi: no if you write your own touchpad driver
[15:51] <Sysi> now that sounds like fun
[15:51] <TheSheep> doesn't it?
[15:52] <TheSheep> mac's drivers probably do it differently
[15:54] <Sysi> it or something quite similar could work with some obscure settings..
[15:54] <charlie-tca> Sysi: if you do find a way, let me know too, huh?
[15:54] <Sysi> can do
[15:55] <Sysi> even then it would propably be sensible only with touchpad, and you'd need different settings for every touchpad
[15:55] <Sysi> I'n need to check if it work with trackball on mac
[15:59] <TheSheep> or you could invent fractional clicks <1.25 wink>
[16:00] <Sysi> I think xorg doesn't support smaller than one line scroll distance
[16:02] <TheSheep> you can tell it how much to scroll per click
[16:02] <TheSheep> and that may be fractional
[16:02] <TheSheep> but then it gets slower
[18:29] <X-Hunter> hello
[18:30] <charlie-tca> !hi | X-Hunter
[18:30] <X-Hunter> sup
[18:31] <X-Hunter> so anyway, if i power off while a live cd is loading, are there any consequences?
[18:31] <charlie-tca> nope
[18:31] <X-Hunter> cool
[18:31] <X-Hunter> cuz my cd was taking forever to boot
[18:31] <charlie-tca> Although if the live cd started installing, it would be bad
[18:31] <X-Hunter> o yea
[18:32] <X-Hunter> but i only run demos
[18:32] <X-Hunter> i mostly work in windows
[18:32] <X-Hunter> limited hdd space
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Then it hurts nothing. The live session leaves the hard drive alone
[18:32] <X-Hunter> thx, just needed that question answered
[18:33] <Sysi> "presses the power button"
[18:33] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:05] <ChristopherNG> Hey guys!
[19:18] <pteague> what desktop search is being used in natty for xubuntu?
[19:19] <charlie-tca> catfish
[19:19] <charlie-tca> listed under accessories in the menu
[19:22] <pteague> what's the default backend that it uses to search? i'm asking because i had something eating up all my memory & shoving stuff into swap... i killed it earlier & then my system just locked up... wondering if it started up again & killed everything
[19:23] <Sysi> you can set it to use few different ones
[19:25] <pteague> i've not set it to use anything... hmm... went through the list of 'suggests' for catfish & none of them show up as being installed... weird... i may just have to generate a list of everything installed & look through that then
[19:38] <pteague> found it... tumbler
[19:45] <Sysi> tumbler draws thumbnails of images in thunar
[19:50] <X-Hunter> xubuntu rules!!!
[19:52] <pteague> yeah, but why would tumbler eat 4gb of ram?
[19:52] <TheSheep> because it uses 3rd party programs and plugins, and not all of them behave as they should
[19:53] <TheSheep> in particular, some of the uglier video codecs can suddenly eat a lot of ram
[19:53] <Sysi> or you have gazillion pics :p
[19:53] <TheSheep> Sysi: well, gazillion of pics doesn't require a ot of ram when you make one thumbnail at a time
[19:53] <Sysi> well that
[19:54] <TheSheep> also, I hate tumbler with a passion, it made thunar almost as unresponsive as nautilus
[19:54] <pteague> is there a way to get rid of tumbler then?
[19:55] <TheSheep> sure, together with thunar and most of xubuntu
[19:56] <pteague> *sigh* ok, then is there something i can use like thunar that doesn't insist on displaying the contents of every file?
[19:57] <Sysi> TheSheep: it's tumbler that causes the lad when you delete files?
[19:57] <Sysi> s/lad/lag
[19:57] <Sysi> because that really sucks
[19:59] <TheSheep> no idea, did you report it?
[20:00] <pteague> ok, that seems much better... there's an option in thunar so you can turn off thumbnails... seems to not load tumbler
[20:02] <pteague> time to reboot for new kernel...
[20:16] <jrmy> back
[21:41] <Numn> somebody that know how i can change the toolbar in xubuntu to icon only  instad of text and icon?
[21:43] <Numn> ok nvm :P found it
[22:41] <BSODLOL> I just dropped in to say "Oh HI!" but now I'm off to bed so... GOODBYE! <3


[06:29] <D33jy> hello friends
[15:45] <mrqtros> Can someone tell me when App Showdown Results will be revealed? :)
[15:45] <smartboyhw> No time, you need to wait for the judges
[15:53] <mrqtros> smartboyhw sad. Extra week passed, but no result again :(
[15:53]  * ejat be patient :)
[16:01] <mrqtros> ejat I just like punctuality, nothing less, nothing more :) I am in business too - participating in core app development, so I know how they are busy :)
[16:09]  * ejat :)
[16:16] <popey> should be this week
[16:16] <popey> probably as early as monday
[17:11] <nicnac> hi
[17:11] <nicnac> anyone here who can tell me how to get involved in calender ubuntu touch devel?
[17:21] <mrqtros> nicnac try it, find bugs, fill them on launchpad or fix yourself :)
[17:24] <nicnac> it is quite.. hard to get arround
[17:24] <nicnac> I cant figure where things happen
[17:24] <nicnac> so,.. how does the team communicate etc
[17:25] <nicnac> i found the concurrency converter tut,.. gonna start there :D^^
[17:41] <popey> nicnac: where things happen? Here, on launchpad, on the ubuntu-phone and core apps mailing lists, in meetings in #ubuntu-touch-meeting
[17:45] <danielbeck> hi popey: I saw yesterday that there is a problem with installing the RamSamSam Reader  - I got a notice from daker about it. I uploaded a new version of the software.
[18:14] <popey> danielbeck: strange that you didnt get an email from the store.. beuno may be able to look into that
[18:18] <danielbeck> popey: I checked the spam dir, too.
[18:18] <popey> danielbeck: ran tests and approved it into the store
[18:19] <danielbeck> popey: Ah cool. Is there a way to test it on the desktop?
[18:19] <popey> danielbeck: I'll fire a mail to the judges to let them know
[18:19] <popey> not from the click package, no
[18:19] <danielbeck> popey: Isn't it too late now?
[18:26] <popey> I'm sure we can make allowances.
[18:29] <popey> nik90: muhahaha got a nice bug for you! :D will file it later