[12:45] <pkl_> BenC: hi
[12:46] <BenC> pkl_: Hey
[12:47] <pkl_> BenC: a good time to discuss kernel devel?
[12:47] <BenC> pkl_: Yeah, give me about 5 minutes to finish up something
[12:47] <pkl_> BenC: no problem.
[12:55] <BenC> pkl_: Ok, I assume you've done a git clone from either kernel.org or rookery...if you did kernel.org, I would suggest rebasing on the rookery one
[12:56] <BenC> pkl_: I also assume you've read the git-guide on the wiki and have used git before, so I'll skip all the redundant how-to-use-git stuff :)
[12:56] <pkl_> Yeah, I used kernel.org.  Rookery is the Ubuntu repo?
[12:57] <pkl_> Yes, I've used git before.  I started playing around with it in its early development
[12:58] <BenC> On rookery.ubuntu.com /srv/kernel-team holds our repos
[12:58] <BenC> it's the same as what's on kernel.org, but you wont be able to get to any non-public branches if and when we create them
[12:58] <pkl_> I have _not_ used it for +1 year, and it seems more capable now.  Though kernel.org is now extremely slow :-)
[12:58] <BenC> then there's that :)
[12:59] <BenC> pkl_: Have you ever used kernel-package/make-kpkg from debian before?
[01:00] <pkl_> No.  I've always been extremely disto agnostic.  I use so many distros that I used commands that work across them all.  I daresay it will b easier to learn the Debian processes :-)
[01:01] <BenC> it's actually really horrible because it's a tool meant to work with almost any kernel version for almost any flavor of kernel
[01:01] <pkl_> My guess is make-kpkg builds the kernel, modules, installs the kernel and rebuilds the initrd/initramfs as necessary.
[01:02] <BenC> we'll actually stop using it for feisty+1, but since we have 4 releases using it now, you'll need to get used to it a little
[01:02] <Mithrandir> initramfs-es are built on installation.
[01:02] <Mithrandir> since you want to update them when you update bits of them, like usplash or something.
[01:02] <BenC> It packs all of it up, and includes install hooks in the package for updating the boot loader and calling other tools to do the initramfs rebuild
[01:03] <BenC> right, other packages can include initramfs hooks, so it's an at-install function
[01:03] <pkl_> so, the initramfs is not explicitly rebuilt as part of the kernel install?
[01:03] <BenC> it is as part of the install
[01:03] <BenC> but there is no initramfs in the kernel package
[01:04] <BenC> the kernel postinst hook calls update-initramfs
[01:04] <BenC> which does the dirty work
[01:04] <BenC> pkl_: Anyway, make-kpkg is only semi important for our work
[01:04] <BenC> we use it almost like you'd use "make"
[01:04] <pkl_> ok.
[01:05] <BenC> the main part of the build is the ABI, and flavours/configs
[01:05] <BenC> In debian/config/ you will find must of the ugliness that tells the build system what kernels to build for each architecture
[01:05] <BenC> debian/config/$arch/ contains the per architecture config files
[01:06] <BenC> there is a debian/config/$arch/config that contains the common parts for all flavours, and debian/config/$arch/config.$flavour for each specific flavour
[01:06] <BenC> the build cats both of them together and does a "make oldconfig" to get things started
[01:07] <BenC> the oldconfig will fail if there's any new questions that the config does not explicitly answer
[01:07] <BenC> To update all the configs, you can do "debian/rules updateconfigs", this rebuilds all of the architectures
[01:07] <BenC> and splits them using some magic in debian/bin/
[01:08] <BenC> The splitting is done to make it easier to keep configs consistent per architecture
[01:08] <pkl_> ok
[01:08] <fabbione> morning pkl_
[01:08] <BenC> Stop me if you have any questions
[01:09] <pkl_> morning fabbione.  It's a really nice Sunny morning here in Wales., for a change!
[01:09] <BenC> So when the build starts, it basically creates a copy of the source in debian/build/build-$flavour/
[01:09] <BenC> for each flavour, cats the config, and does the build, then completes it by creating a .deb
[01:09] <pkl_> BenC: ok.  I'm trying to look through the kernel while you say this..
[01:09] <fabbione> feh.. it's -25 C here in Montreal
[01:09] <BenC> fabbione: Blame Canada :)
[01:09] <pkl_> toasty
[01:10] <fabbione> Canada = the biggest sperm bank in the world....
[01:10] <fabbione> it's enough you get out to freeze and store
[01:10] <pkl_> Global warming hit Cabada yet?
[01:11] <pkl_> s/Cabada/Canada/ :-)
[01:11] <BenC> pkl_: The other nifty thing we do is track the ABI of our kernels...
[01:12] <BenC> The debian/abi directory contains the ABI for the last uploaded release of the kernel
[01:12] <BenC> after the build, it checks this (via a simple diff) to see if the ABI changes
[01:12] <pkl_> Ok.  ABI to me means App Binary Interface??  How do you track that?
[01:12] <BenC> We encode the ABI into our package name, and into the kernels EXTRAVERSION
[01:12] <BenC> Modules.srcver
[01:13] <BenC> each exported function (vmlinux and modules) is tracked in there with a hash of the function
[01:13] <BenC> the hash is of the function name, it's arguments and return value
[01:13] <BenC> this is something the kernel does already, we just use it to check if it changes
[01:14] <BenC> so our package package versions are something like 2.6.20-6-generic, which EXTRAVERSION=-6-generic, and 6 is the ABI
[01:14] <pkl_> Ok.  Sounds good.  I didn't know Debian did that.
[01:14] <BenC> generic is the flavour
[01:14] <BenC> I don't think debian does
[01:14] <cjwatson> pkl_: (we'd had problems with modules outside the kernel packages breaking unexpectedly on what we thought were minor updates - this stops us getting caught out by forcing us to rebuild when the interface changes)
[01:14] <cjwatson> Debian does now
[01:15] <BenC> pkl_: Do not confuse anything we do with what debian may or may not do :)
[01:15] <BenC> at least as far as the kernel is concerned
[01:16] <BenC> pkl_: So, when you do a test build for a new kernel, if the ABI changes, you would see it error with that message, and you would bump the ABI
[01:16] <BenC> how you bump the ABI is different with feisty and pre-feisty
[01:17] <BenC> pre-feisty, you do "debian/rules bumpabi", and feisty you simply edit debian/changelog and change it in there (e.g. 2.6.20-6.12 to 2.6.20-7.12)
[01:17] <BenC> Note, our minor version (.12 in the above example) is ever increasing, it does not restart at 1 when the ABI (major) increases
[01:18] <pkl_> The debian/config dir only contains dirs for architectures supported by Ubuntu.  Hence no arm etc.  This implies parisc is supported?
[01:18] <BenC> it's sort of a rolling counter of the builds we've done
[01:18] <BenC> pkl_: parisc was supported, but hasn't been built since dapper, AFAIK
[01:18] <BenC> I left it in there because I keep hearing rumors that lamont will revive it...and maybe that Kyle dude will fix it :)
[01:19] <BenC> pkl_: Technically it doesn't mean we support it (like x86, ppc, x86_64, sparc), it just means we build it...parics and ia64 are community supported architectures
[01:20] <pkl_> ok
[01:20] <BenC> we build it, but only if non-paid people take the time to get it going
[01:20] <BenC> pkl_: any questions so far?
[01:21] <BenC> I'm saving all this to put into a wiki BTW, so a nice FAQ would be nice
[01:22] <BenC> lots of niceness
[01:22] <pkl_> Simply editing the changelog to update ABI implies the build process checks this?
[01:22] <BenC> yes
[01:23] <BenC> it will rebuild the debian/control file, which lists all the packages
[01:23] <pkl_> Obviously the changelog is not simply human readable as in many projects
[01:23] <BenC> debian/control is built from debian/control.stub, which is further generated from debian/control.stub.in
[01:23] <BenC> no, debian/changelog is very formatted
[01:24] <BenC> in fact, in feisty, you do not edit at all, except to start a new release, or change the abi
[01:24] <BenC> all the changelog entries are generated from git using "debian/rules insertchanges"
[01:24] <BenC> "debian/rules printchanges" gives you a running list
[01:24] <zul> kylem: i dont think you want to go outside today -39C with the windchill
[01:24] <BenC> "debian/rules help" if you forget any of this
[01:25] <Nafallo> kewl :-)
[01:25] <zul> Hey BenC
[01:25] <Nafallo> hi zul :-)
[01:25] <zul> hi Nafallo
[01:25] <BenC> pkl_: In case it isn't obvious, "debian/rules" is the primary build entry for all debian packages :)
[01:25] <BenC> zul: hey
[01:25] <BenC> pkl_: Which brings us to actually building this bohemoth
[01:26] <BenC> pkl_: When I do test builds, I simplify things, and just run "fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs"
[01:26] <BenC> (you'll want to install the fakeroot program, it's a debian developers best friend)
[01:27] <BenC> pkl_: If you only want to build a single flavour, useful for quick tests, do "debian/rules binary-debs flavours=foo", e.g. foo can be generic, which is the most common flavour
[01:27] <BenC> either of those will leave you (if the build succeeded) a package in debian/build/
[01:27] <BenC> which you can install and test
[01:28] <BenC> For feisty, before any upload, I usually do full builds on x86, x86_64, powerpc, sparc and ia64, and I boot at least one kernel from each of those
[01:29] <BenC> You wont have to worry about feisty uploads, but for security uploads, I would suggest doing at least as much, maybe a little more testing (considering it's a stable release)
[01:29] <BenC> pkl_: absorb this, I'll be back in 10 minutes
[01:30] <pkl_> fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs" will build all flavours for the current architecture?  Can you build for all architectures (which would require appropriate cross-compilation environment)
[01:32] <fabbione> pkl_: no you can't cross compile yet
[01:32] <fabbione> it would require a bunch of changes in debian/rules
[01:32] <fabbione> pkl_: we have porting machines for that
[01:32] <fabbione> where you can build sparc/ppc etc..
[01:34] <pkl_> Yes, I didn't think you could, but I thought I'd check...
[01:35] <pkl_> Who hosts the porting machines?
[01:37] <Mithrandir> Canonical.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> they're in the London DC
[01:38] <BenC> pkl_: The canonical wiki lists the machines, and also shows you how to use ssh proxy to get to them
[01:39] <BenC> pkl_: There's one exception to the flavours bit, the lowlatency kernel is built as a modified generic kernel..it used debian/config/$arch/config.generic and manually seds some things
[01:39] <BenC> you can ignore it for now, since it's not an officially supported kernel
[01:39] <BenC> but just so you know how it gets created :)
[01:40] <pkl_> if the porting machines are in London, you must have someone around to push the button if something goes wrong :-)(
[01:40] <cjwatson> they're generally just for building - you don't have root on them
[01:41] <pkl_> ok.  You can use the porting machines to build, but you mush have a machine locally (or ask someone who has) to build the new kernel.  No problem, just need to understand this.
[01:42] <pkl_> build == boot.
[01:42] <pkl_> "to build the new kernel" -> "to boot the new kernel"
[01:42] <Mithrandir> correct.
[01:43] <Mithrandir> or just upload to feisty. :-P
[01:43] <Nafallo> since Mithrandir is the release manager I think we should do what he says ;-)
[01:43] <BenC> Or just use Mith for all your guinea pig needs
[01:44] <BenC> pkl_: One thing to remember (and Mith will no doubt re-enforce this) the buildd's are not test build systems :)
[01:44] <Mithrandir> BenC: I only care about amd64, so as long as you don't break that, I'm happy. ;-)
[01:44] <BenC> the buildd's are the machines that actually build the source we upload for users to eventually use
[01:44] <Mithrandir> and if it builds, it ends up in the archive, which means that people will use it.
[01:44] <BenC> when we upload, we should expect it to build
[01:45] <BenC> right, so builds sent there are also not considered "testing"...especially in the cases of security updates
[01:45] <BenC> feisty is sort of testing, but we try to not make it so bad :)
[01:45] <Nafallo> word :-)
[01:46] <pkl_> Yes, I actually do have all the support architectures at home , but not hppa, or ia64.
[01:46] <BenC> don't worry about either of them...for stable releases, ia64 and hppa are not even considered important, and for devel like feisty, it's only partially important
[01:47] <BenC> I'm not sure that security is supported for ports.ubuntu.com architectures
[01:47] <Nafallo> i.e. if mark says that we will support either of them next cycle, they might be important ;-)
[01:48] <Nafallo> BenC: they are probably just built, but I think we can ignore arch-specific CVEs :-)
[01:49] <BenC> pkl_: Any questions thus far?
[01:49] <Mithrandir> pkl_: while it's nice if you don't break hppa and ia64, I'm not too fussed about them if they do end up blowing up slightly.
[01:49] <BenC> This is a lot of material, and  will be doing the wiki for it today
[01:50] <Mithrandir> like, hppa is a catastrophe right now due to threads being fucked.
[01:50] <BenC> I think sparc kernel is still FTBFS on breezy :)
[01:50] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:50] <BenC> no wonder I'm never up this early... the Sun is shining right in my eyes at this time of the morning
[01:50] <cjwatson> that's your own fault for using sparc hardware
[01:51] <Nafallo> LOL
[01:51] <fabbione> ahhaha
[01:51] <pkl_> Sound ok.  The obvious thing to ask next is what do you do to 'test' a build.  Is this a defined framwork, automated, regression checked for etc.  Or is it ad-hoc?
[01:52] <Mithrandir> so far, ad-hoc.  iwj is building some automated test suite, but I'm not sure how it applies to the kernel.
[01:52] <fabbione> pkl_: "hey the patch applies! It's ready for stable.."
[01:52] <fabbione> :P
[01:53] <pkl_> Who still uses hppa?  It not as bad as MIPS (any desktop MIPS must be 10+ years old), but HP hasn't built parisc systems for years...?
[01:54] <pkl_> I used to use one 12 years ago!
[01:55] <Mithrandir> pkl_: they do.
[01:55] <Mithrandir> they finished the last CPU design of the line less than a year ago, iirc.
[01:55] <pkl_> Running HPUX unfortunately (with such a broken compiler/asembler you had to use GCC and gas).
[01:56] <pkl_> I still have my Archimedes/QL/SPectrum stull but never  turn them on now :-)
[01:57] <pkl_> I used to know the people who wrote parts of Amiga DOS (it was based on Tripos)
[01:58] <fabbione> pkl_: i have a zx81 still working..
[01:58] <fabbione> i did sell the Spectrum at the time :)
[01:58] <pkl_> I butchered mine for a micromouse I built back in 1985 :-(
[02:00] <cjwatson> my Spectrum+ died of terminal keyboard failure (repaired N times). bit of a standard problem with that model I think :(
[02:00] <BenC> pkl_: I have some scripts that I use to build across all my machines
[02:01] <BenC> pkl_: I have them in debian/bin/bens-build-scripts/ in feisty
[02:01] <BenC> no docs, just a chunk of shell code
[02:02] <pkl_> Yes, the membrane keyboard practically disintegrates.  Becomes brittle and snaps.  The keybaord on my Dragon 32 still works (even it's older) because it used old-fashioned makde/break leaf contact keyboard.
[02:02] <BenC> pkl_: As far as testing, goes, I just do boot testing on all the machines I have (which is too many to list)
[02:04] <pkl_> I don't think Ubuntu is anyworse at testing that other distros AFAIK.  Testing is, however, a bit of a disaster however WRT to the kernel.
[02:05] <pkl_> Ok.  All sounds good so far :-)
[02:06] <Mithrandir> pkl_: in the case of you managing to get a busted kernel into the archive (as in, completely busted), please do get in touch and we can make it so that nobody new is getting the kernel at least, and through that limit the damage.
[02:07] <pkl_> Do you test the security fixes/patches.  Some of the security notices are (to say the least) hypothetical, and almost impossible to trigger?
[02:07] <BenC> pkl_: there's some docs on the ubuntu wiki about stable release uploads
[02:08] <BenC> pkl_: We usually patch any CVE's that have been patched in 2.6.x.y git
[02:08] <bubbasucks> sup ben
[02:08] <BenC> even if hypothetical
[02:08] <BenC> hey bubba
[02:08] <cjwatson> StableReleaseUpdates on the wiki mostly just covers non-security uploads
[02:09] <BenC> cjwatson: There's a kernel wiki regarding it's special case for proposed
[02:09] <BenC> I think SRU wiki links to it
[02:09] <BenC> cjwatson: Isn't there a wiki page for busted stable/security uploads from germany sprint?
[02:10] <fabbione> hey Mr Wilson
[02:11] <fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[02:11] <fabbione> ^^ SRU
[02:12] <cjwatson> BenC: I think so, but I don't remember the page name
[02:12] <BenC> yay, lrm built
[02:12] <BenC> cjwatson: fabbione says it's canonical wiki
[02:13] <fabbione> yeah it's somewhere there.. i am looking for it
[02:14] <BenC> who here has an atheros wifi?
[02:14] <pkl_> I have...
[02:14] <BenC> I need someone to actually tell me if it works with the lrm I just uploaded to feisty
[02:14] <bubbasucks> whats that fab
[02:15] <Nafallo> BenC: no luck with rt2x00 I guess? :-)
[02:15] <pkl_> I can do that...though I'll have to reboot this machine
[02:16] <BenC> rt2x00 got demoted
[02:16] <BenC> using rt2x00-legacy stuff in git, but that's not uploaded yet
[02:16] <Nafallo> oh. why so?
[02:16] <Nafallo> demote that is
[02:17] <Nafallo> not that I
[02:17] <BenC> rt2x00 drivers don't build with the new d80211 stack
[02:17] <Nafallo> ouch
[02:17] <kylem> wow. ben's up early.
[02:18] <kylem> morning.
[02:18] <zul> hey kylem
[02:18] <fabbione> hey kylem
[02:18] <Nafallo> kylem: he wanted the sun in his eyes ;-)
[02:18] <kylem> lol.
[02:18] <Nafallo> hi kylem :-)
[02:18] <BenC> sweet, the module checking code kicked in and caught some missing modules for -7.12 :)
[02:18] <BenC> kylen: Been up for 5 hours now, your just lazy :P
[02:19] <kylem> BenC, ... damn dude.
[02:19] <bubbasucks> wow that is quite some process
[02:19] <bubbasucks> so sounds like i need to get my old kernel working
[02:20] <BenC> pkl_, kylem: I want to arrange a day this week (and hopefully every week) when the kernel team can meet regularly...how does 10AM EST, 3PM UK sound?
[02:20] <bubbasucks> glad kernel's are special cases
[02:21] <BenC> probably tomorrow or wed
[02:21] <pkl_> sounds fine.
[02:21] <BenC> bubbasucks: I would say that kernels made the rules instead of breaking them, but I'd probably get smacked down for that :)
[02:23] <BenC> kylem: ?
[02:23] <bubbasucks> ha!
[02:24] <bubbasucks> sounds like the buerocracy at my old job
[02:25] <BenC> heh, not really any bureaucracy here, just general put-you-in-your-place kind of stuff :)
[02:25] <pkl_> Where did you work?  I know places with so much bureaucracy you could hardly get anything donw.
[02:26] <BenC> canonical has the least bureaucracy of any place I've worked for
[02:26] <BenC> we're starting to get some from basic growth, but it's the well needed kind
[02:29] <bubbasucks> heh
[02:29] <bubbasucks> brb
[02:29] <pkl_> The important thing is to avoid getting management types, especially ones where doing things by the book, and holding meetings are all important.
[02:30] <pkl_> A three letter company I used to work for springs to mind.
[02:32] <fabbione> BenC, bubbasucks: the problem bubba has might be a genuine driver bug. the pci is is in megaraid_mbox
[02:32] <fabbione> (checked the sources and module is loaded by initramfs)
[02:32] <BenC> fabbione: is it an AMI?
[02:32] <fabbione> but there are no /proc/partitions
[02:32] <fabbione> BenC: dunno.. it's in the email bubba did send to us.. wait
[02:32] <Eruantalon> How many people does canonical have working with the kernel? Any of them do upstream kernel development or is it just packaging?
[02:32] <BenC> fabbione: Because I also have an AMI machine that is listed in mbox, but it's ignored because it isn't the actual raid device (it's just the processor)
[02:32] <BenC> no driver is loaded for it
[02:32] <fabbione> 0000:02:07.0 RAID bus controller: American Megatrends Inc. MegaRAID
[02:32] <fabbione> (rev 02)
[02:32] <fabbione>          Subsystem: Dell PowerEdge Cost Effective RAID Controller
[02:32] <fabbione> ATA100/4Ch
[02:33] <fabbione> BenC: ah... and what't the fix for that?
[02:33] <BenC> Eruantalon: we have 4 as of today (Tim just started today), I used to do upstream linux1394, and Phillip does squashfs which will hopefully be upstream soon
[02:33] <BenC> Eruantalon: Kyle does parisc
[02:34] <BenC> fabbione: No fix, it's just not used...there would be another device that actually handles the raid, and if it's what I'm thinking, then it needs edgy-security to work
[02:34] <fabbione> oh ok.. i guess we can get him to test that
[02:35] <BenC> pkl_: Do you want to attempt a simple build from feisty git to see if you've got things going correctly?
[02:35] <BenC> pkl_: You'd need kernel-package, kernel-wedge, fakeroot, debhelper and build-essential installed to start off
[02:36] <fabbione> or apt-get build-dep linux-source-2.6.20
[02:36] <fabbione> and fakeroot
[02:36] <pkl_> Yes, I'm in the process of doing that.  I already discovered (though trail and error) the things I need :-)
[02:36] <BenC> yeah, that works too :)
[02:37] <Eruantalon> BenC: I just realised that you are the guy i read about in Behind Ubuntu that lives on a farm :-)
[02:37] <BenC> pkl_: initially, if you have things to commit, run them past<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(which you need to subscribe to)
[02:38] <BenC> Eruantalon: hehe, my infamous interview :)
[02:38] <pkl_> Squashfs will, hopefully, be upstream early this year.  The work I was asked by LKML to do, has been done.  There's just one or two more little-ish things to be done before I resubmit.
[02:39] <pkl_> Yup, I'm subscribed.
[02:42] <kylem> BenC, anytime is fine. sorry, was in the shower.
[02:42] <BenC> hopefully I can bring it up to snuff and inline with jono's suggestions
[02:42] <Nafallo> BenC: put meeting in topic maybe? :-)
[02:42] <BenC> kylem: You shower? Are you really a kernel hacker?
[02:43] <Nafallo> lol
[02:43] <kylem> yes, a clean one.
[02:43] <BenC> not very clean shaven though :)
[02:44] <pkl_> BTW, I notice you've still got Squashfs 3.1 in the feisty kernel :-)
[02:44] <BenC> pkl_: it's been working, so we haven't wanted to touch it :)
[02:45] <kylem> BenC, haha.
[02:46] <pkl_> Squashfs 3.2 has some nice updates.  It been harden to be more resiliant to corrupted filesystems (as a result of MoKB and a CVE).    It is really that bad?
[02:54] <kylem> worse.
[02:54] <Nafallo> hmm
[02:55] <zul> oh its not that bad....hah..
[02:55] <pkl_> The guys that wrote are pretty clever.  Ian Pratt was one of my drinking mates in Cambridge 11+ years ago.
[02:57] <pkl_> Lhype/Lguest/Rustyvisor seems to be going quite well.  Anyone manage to see the talk at LCA?
[03:00] <Mithrandir> Xen is lovely as long as you don't look at the code. :-)
[03:04] <BenC> pkl_: I've been using kvm a lot, and it's actually pretty cool
[03:05] <zul> pkl_: looking at the xen code has a tendency to make you go crazy or make people think that you are crazy :)
[03:10] <fabbione> BenC: do you think you can take a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/83412 ?
[03:10] <fabbione> BenC: i am not 100% sure if it's the testcase or the kernel..
[03:10] <fabbione> i did check the latest ltp version and it reports the same error
[03:12] <BenC> fabbione: Could be 32-bit/64-bit thunking problem
[03:12] <fabbione> it doesn't look like it
[03:12] <BenC> I assume LTP builds/runs 32-bit code
[03:12] <BenC> how can I reproduce it?
[03:12] <fabbione> i would like to exclude the Niagara vs other sparc cpu case first
[03:12] <fabbione> 100% on niagara
[03:13] <BenC> my e3k isn't booted right now...been too cold to walk out to the barn to power cycle it :)
[03:13] <fabbione> Reproduction steps:
[03:13] <fabbione> 1. Install the ltp-kernel-test package.
[03:13] <fabbione> 2. Run /usr/lib/debian-test/tests/linux/testcases/bin/shmt09
[03:13] <fabbione> ok.. it's a minor problem for what i can tell
[03:14] <fabbione> but i want to make absolutely sure it's a kernel issue before i ask david to look at it
[03:14] <fabbione> BenC: define toocold ?
[03:14] <fabbione> :P
[03:15] <BenC> too cold for us Virginians
[03:15] <fabbione> ah ok ;)
[03:15] <fabbione> you should teach one of your cows to turn it on/off
[03:15] <fabbione> "Clarabella: turn on!"
[03:15] <BenC> you can keep your colder than Antarctica weather up there in Montreal :)
[03:15] <fabbione> "Clarabella: turn off!"
[03:15] <BenC> lol
[03:15] <Mithrandir> or just buy a power switch
[03:16] <fabbione> + remote ;)
[03:16] <kylem> fabbione, how's mtl this morning?
[03:17] <fabbione> kylem: cold... -20C and -30 with windchill
[03:17] <zul> not that cold
[03:17] <kylem> bummer. -37 here.
[03:25] <fabbione> BenC: 32/64 bits makes no diff
[03:25] <lamont> fabbione: it's cold either way, then?
[03:26] <fabbione> lamont: yeah
[03:26] <lamont> only -1C here
[03:26] <bubbasucks> up
[03:26] <bubbasucks> err, yo
[03:26] <lamont> er, -2
[03:26] <kylem> lucky lamont
[03:27] <kylem> then again, you have like 10 ft of snow?
[03:27] <lamont> kylem: it's been bitter cold the last few days...
[03:27] <lamont> still have snow piles in town.  out here, we didn't pile it up so much, so it's mostly melted.
[03:27] <kylem> ah.
[03:27] <lamont> or blown to kansas
[03:27] <kylem> haha.
[03:35] <pkl_> BenC: lvm requires hardware VT support, which I have not (yet) got, except for the Mac which I tend to run in Mac OS X.  Pity because it seems quite good.
[03:35] <pkl_> s/lvm/lkm/g
[03:35] <BenC> kvm?
[03:36] <BenC> Yeah, I have three boxes here with Intel support I've been testing it on
[03:36] <pkl_> yeah, that's what it's called.
[03:37] <pkl_> Silly, three letter acromyns.  Kvm always makes me think of Java (there is or was a Java VM called Kvm).
[03:37] <BenC> pkl_: You have your launchpad account setup?
[03:37] <BenC> kvm makes me think of keyboard-video-mouse switch
[03:38] <kylem> he
[03:38] <kylem> h
[03:38] <BenC> pkl_: Make sure you do join the kernel-team at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-team
[03:38] <pkl_> I'll check.  I set it up months ago, but I'm not what it is setup.  What should  I have?
[03:40] <BenC> pkl_: You should have a launchpad account, done the Code of Conduct, added your gpg and ssh keys, etc.
[03:44] <ivoks> is it possible to get newer 3w-9xxx in dapper during updates?
[03:45] <ivoks> (for next kernel release?)
[03:49] <BenC> ivoks: In proposed updates yes
[03:51] <ivoks> BenC: do you need diff?
[03:51] <ivoks> :)
[03:51] <ivoks> argh... git, right? :)
[03:52] <BenC> yes, and send it to kyle
[03:52] <kylem> no, send it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:52] <kylem> ;-)
[03:52] <bubbasucks> ii  linux-image-2.6.17-10-generic                        <IP_ADDRESS>-10.34
[03:52] <ivoks> ok :)
[03:53] <fabbione> BenC: according to bubba, he has -security
[03:54] <BenC> hmm...not sure then, I'd have to check the dmesg/lspci output again to see what's up
[03:54] <bubbasucks> [4294671.621000]  megaraid: found 0x101e:0x1960:bus 2:slot 7:func 0
[03:54] <bubbasucks> (this is from 2.6.12)
[03:55] <bubbasucks> 02:07.0 RAID bus controller: American Megatrends Inc. MegaRAID (rev 02)
[03:55] <bubbasucks> 02:07.0 0104: 101e:1960 (rev 02)
[03:56] <BenC> AMI, yeah, that's just a virtual device for the RAID processor
[03:56] <BenC> no module is supposed to use it
[03:56] <BenC> what's the sub vendor/device?
[03:57] <pina> i received my CSA v11 today
[03:57] <bubbasucks> where can i get sub/vendor device?
[03:57] <BenC> lspci -vvn
[03:57] <BenC> the second line I think
[03:58] <bubbasucks> 02:07.0 0104: 101e:1960 (rev 02)
[03:58] <bubbasucks>         Subsystem: 1028:0511
[03:58] <pina> you guys want to read this?
[03:58] <pina> bsd vs linux debate
[04:00] <ivoks> i doubt it's a debate, probably holly war :)
[04:00] <pina> not a debate actually
[04:01] <pina> its a summary acutally what the author thinks of the two
[04:01] <bubbasucks> i thought holly wars only happened at Christmas time
[04:01] <pina> http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php
[04:01] <kylem> we don't care.
[04:03] <bubbasucks> BenC: is that the right info?
[04:03] <ivoks> pina: it's a personal opinion (i didn't read it, but "Conclusions" say: "Why do I run BSD?"
[04:04] <ivoks> right
[04:05] <pina> the technical report is what struck me as weird
[04:05] <ivoks> well, this guy runs BSD cause "It Just Works.". I doubt that, but that's only me :D
[04:05] <pina> he supports bsd there
[04:05] <pina> hah
[04:05] <BenC> well, I haven't seen it personally, but I've heard that BSD wireless stack smokes Linux
[04:06] <pina> woah
[04:06] <bubbasucks> if i didn't know ubuntu kernel devs, i'd be running windows
[04:06] <kylem> BenC, it's a lot easier to do better when you don't need to ask anyones permission to commit code.
[04:06] <zul> kylem: what? it doesnt give you a warm fuzzy feeling
[04:06] <bubbasucks> or buy a mac pro
[04:06] <pina> BenC: where did ytou read that about the wireless stack?
[04:06] <BenC> kylem: or have 50 people doing different implementations? :)
[04:07] <BenC> pina: On the linux wireless list, from a linux wireless kernel dev
[04:07] <ivoks> wifi stack is better, i've herd it too
[04:07] <pina> news to me
[04:07] <kylem> BenC, they also don't support WPA or a myriad of other things.
[04:08] <BenC> I'm not saying the actual BSD wireless drivers are better or worse, just that the core stack has got things we don't, like consistency
[04:08] <kylem> dscape ftw.
[04:08] <BenC> dscape is supposed to be our savior
[04:09] <BenC> along with cfg80211 and other things
[04:10] <BenC> kylem, pkl_: BTW, I might move the meeting back an hour or two to accommodate Tim's timezone
[04:10] <kylem> sure.
[04:10] <BenC> s/back/ahead/
[04:12] <ivoks> ubuntu-dapper is correct git?
[04:13] <ivoks> or -updates?
[04:13] <kylem> for backporting 3ware? any of them will do.
[04:13] <ivoks> there's no much backporting :)
[04:13] <ivoks> 3ware provides .c and .h for 2.6.15 :)
[04:13] <fabbione> BenC, kylem: 83412 at your will :P
[04:18] <BenC> fabbione: Is it sparc specific?
[04:19] <kylem> it's a compat bug.
[04:19] <kylem> upstream bug.
[04:25] <fabbione> kylem: yes.. sparc specific
[04:25] <fabbione> BenC: ^^
[04:26] <BenC> so it is 32-bit/64-bit :P
[04:26] <BenC> probably affects ppc64 too
[04:26] <fabbione> BenC: you still get the bug with 64bit userland
[04:26] <BenC> Can you show me the test case again?
[04:26] <fabbione> it's all in the bug...
[04:27] <fabbione> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/83412
[04:28] <BenC> Ok, checking
[04:29] <fabbione> cheers dude
[04:34] <BenC> fabbione: passes on ppc64, so it's sparc specific for sure
[04:34] <BenC> I'll get the e3k booted in a bit
[04:34] <fabbione> BenC: yeah check the code.. it might as well be a bug in the testcase
[04:35] <fabbione> there are some ifdefined powerpc*
[04:35] <kylem> hum.
[04:35] <BenC> pre-built test cases...sort of dumb
[04:35] <kylem> it probably is
[04:36] <BenC> fabbione: You tried recompiling the test case with current feisty toolchain?
[04:36] <kylem> we needed to patch shmt*.c for hppa...
[04:36] <kylem> check shmt09.c for __sparc{_,_v9_}_ defines, if there's none, it's most likely a bug in ltp.
[04:37] <BenC> shouldn't shmt* not need special casing?
[04:37] <kylem> no.
[04:37] <kylem> shm are very arch dependant.
[04:37] <BenC> sounds like a flawed test :)
[04:38] <kylem> no, it's the syscalls...
[04:38] <fabbione> BenC: yes
[04:38] <fabbione> BenC:  i did also rebuild the very latest tarball
[04:38] <kylem> think about coherency on a VI cache.
[04:38] <BenC> is it syscall numbering that's the problem?
[04:38] <kylem> BenC, no. the design of posix shared memory.
[04:38] <BenC> lol, posix
[04:39] <kylem> i'll put my money on ltp bug.
[05:05] <bubbasucks> bugs bugs
[05:23] <bubbasucks> BenC: any suggestions?
[05:23] <BenC> bubbasucks: still trying to check the id's
[05:23] <BenC> mixed in with a dozen other things :)
[05:34] <bubbasucks> yeah, i haven't quite got multitasking down myself
[05:34] <bubbasucks> i got a billion things going on at work; a majority of them simply get auto-archived and never seen again
[07:56] <jwest--> :)
[08:16] <zul> gah...<IP_ADDRESS> has been released
[08:16] <jwest--> and reiserfs is borked on it
[08:16] <zul> eh?
[08:17] <jwest--> yeah
[09:15] <kylem> From: Davis<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:15] <kylem> Subject: The kernel and C library have become that
[09:15] <kylem> spam is getting clever.
[09:16] <mjg59> Yes
[09:28] <bubbasucks> but the from address's aren't
[10:39] <bubbasucks> BenC: any suggestions?
[10:47] <Nafallo> who uses reiserfs anyway? :-)
[10:47] <Nafallo> woha. only ~2h30m after :-P
[11:12] <jwest--> freebsd's kernel queues are more efficiently to a variety of asynchronous stuffs than linux?
[11:14] <ivoks> again bsd :)
[11:14] <jwest--> where
[11:14] <jwest--> ok sorry
[11:15] <jwest--> just wondering thats all
[11:15] <ivoks> we had a conclusion about linux vs bsd
[11:15] <jwest--> ok
[11:15] <ivoks> linux is better cause our jobs depend on it
[11:15] <ivoks> :)
[11:15] <jwest--> haha
[11:15] <jwest--> fair enough
[11:16] <jwest--> you see i'm a kernel person, all that interests me is where and how far linux has gone with it
[11:16] <ivoks> i'm not kernel person, i
[11:17] <ivoks> i'm here just buging kernel people to include drivers i need for my servers :D
[11:17] <jwest--> lol
[11:24] <Nafallo> hi Scott!
[11:24] <Nafallo> how's life? :-)
[11:24] <jwest--> ok weird freebsd does a much better job with asynchronous then Linux does
[11:25] <Keybuk> life is good
[11:26] <Nafallo> that's nice :-).
[11:35] <Nafallo> Keybuk: does that mean you are going to talk on lugradio anytime soon? :-)
[11:35] <Keybuk> heh, you'd have to ask jono or mrevell :p
[11:36] <Nafallo> if you have anything to talk about I will ;-)


[06:47] <artfwo> can anyone give reasons NOT to use cdbs?
[06:50] <artfwo> more specifically, why some Debian sponsors dislike cdbs and recommend pure debhelper instead?
[07:09] <tumbleweed> artfwo: I find it hard to understand what CDBS is doing, and why, and debug rules using it
[07:10] <tumbleweed> artfwo: I can also never ues it without referring to its documentation. With dh, it's pretty obvious what you have to override to do something
[07:11] <tumbleweed> oh, and have you read it? it's far worse than perl. Although I've submitted a few patches to it, and none to debhelper...
[07:11] <artfwo> tumbleweed: that's what I thought, I've had to read the entire /usr/share/cdbs directory sometimes
[07:13] <artfwo> tumbleweed: but it does have some good points, doesn't it? :)
[07:14] <tumbleweed> artfwo: it has classes for doing some things, that dh can't do easily, so yeah there are times when I'd consider using it. But all my packages are dh.
[07:27] <artfwo> tumbleweed: couldn't you point out an example dh-package using pysupport, so I could compare both approaches?
[07:28] <tumbleweed> artfwo: for pysupport, all that's needed would be "%:\n\tdh"
[07:31] <artfwo> tumbleweed: you mean "%:\n\tdh $@"?
[07:31] <tumbleweed> er that
[07:33] <artfwo> tumbleweed: many thanks, your advice just made my rules six times smaller :)
[07:44] <tumbleweed> heh
[07:44] <tumbleweed> I think it makes less difference when you are customising a lot of behavior
[08:51]  * c2tarun don't miss me too much ;) ♥
[08:51]  * c2tarun is back.
[08:54] <c2tarun> I submitted 2 bugs yesterday and no mail from debian till now :( what should I do?
[09:02] <DktrKranz> less than 24 hours is normally not a significant time
[09:03] <c2tarun> DktrKranz: actually I filed a few bugs before this and I use to get a mail in 1 or 2 hours, that's why I asked.
[09:08] <tumbleweed> c2tarun: are you using a local MTA (i.e. postfix) on your system? Or going through a smarthost / direct to bugs-master?
[09:11] <c2tarun> tumbleweed: using postfix
[09:12] <tumbleweed> c2tarun: run "mailq". Does it show anything?
[09:12] <c2tarun> tumbleweed: its empty.
[09:13] <tumbleweed> ok, so it's not stuck on your system. Although it could have also bounced back to you and be sitting in your local mailbox. (you can read your mail.log, if you want to be sure it was successfully delivered somewhere)
[09:15] <DktrKranz> c2tarun: oh, you meant you didn't get an ACK saying your bug has been reported, didn't you?
[09:15] <c2tarun> DktrKranz: yup
[11:47] <webdevbyjoss> hey, guys. I have a problem with installing Qt application, because I can't install required qt-lib. is this a good channel to ask for help?
[14:20] <stefanlsd> Is ubuntu-archive ok with motu using syncpackage to process sync's that have ffe to universe, or would they prefer to manage it?
[14:21] <bdrung> stefanlsd: they prefer to manage it
[14:21] <stefanlsd> bdrung: aah ok. noted. thanks
[15:32] <MTecknology> !info nginx-full natty
[15:33] <MTecknology> !info nginx natty
[15:33] <hyperair> ooh i never knew about !info
[15:33] <hyperair> that looks pretty nice
[15:35] <MTecknology> heh... I thouch ubuntu at least had .54
[15:35] <hyperair> well if .54 is a bugfix release it's not too late for a sync
[15:36] <MTecknology> I'm doing that now
[15:38] <MTecknology> hyperair: You think I could still get a new app in that conflicts with nothing and has nothing conflict with it once it passes through debian NEW either this week or next?
[15:39] <hyperair> MTecknology: you'll have to ask ubuntu-release that.
[15:45] <MTecknology> hyperair: I guess I'll have to find out when it's in unstable. No point in bugging people until it's there. :)
[15:45] <hyperair> MTecknology: you could pre-request a FFe
[15:47] <MTecknology> oh
[15:47] <MTecknology> I guess I'll do that then. I didn't know that. :)
[15:47] <MTecknology> I guess I'll get ready to leave for the funeral while this builds.
[16:04] <MTecknology> hyperair: there we go; bug 729691 added :)
[16:04] <hyperair> =)
[16:04] <hyperair> is it a non-bugfix release?
[16:06] <MTecknology> there's a little bit of non-bugfix; but that's mostly all it is
[16:11] <psusi> if I pushed another change to my branch, I don't need to request a merge again if the one I requested yesterday has not been done yet right?
[16:27] <ari-tczew> geser: bug 729524, I unsubscribed ubuntu-sponsors, looks like you forgot about it.
[16:28] <geser> ari-tczew: thanks, I didn't forgot it, I simply can't (not a member of ~ubuntu-sponsors)
[16:28] <ari-tczew> geser: oh, don't you want to be added?
[16:30] <geser> as I'm not doing much sponsoring, I don't know if it's worth it
[16:46] <c2tarun> I submitted 3 bugs to debian yesterday and didn't got any ACK mail till now. What should I do? Should I upload them to LP?
[16:47] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: does /var/log/mail.log show the mails as delivered?
[16:48] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: there is no mail.log file :(
[16:50] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: did you send the bugs with reportbug/submittodebian? how is your mailsystem configured?
[16:51] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: I used submittodebian for submitting bug, I posted few more bugs same way and that time I got the ACK mail but it was this time I am not getting anything, I use postfix
[16:52] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: if you use postfix then there must be a mail.log file somewhere.
[16:52] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: let me run a search
[16:53] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: you could also try 'grep postfix /var/log/syslog'
[16:55] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: I have only these files in /var/log http://paste.ubuntu.com/576041/
[16:56] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: erm... what system are you using? that isn't standard ubuntu?
[16:56] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: it is natty chroot :/
[16:57] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: oh, in that case postfix probably connected to the system syslog-daemon.
[16:57] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: oh wait sorry... I used my main sys for submittodebian wait
[16:59] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: you can use something like 'grep<EMAIL_ADDRESS>/var/log/syslog' on your mainsystem to find only the mails to the debian tracker
[17:03] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: here is my mail log for debian http://pastebin.com/4ELdNMDz
[17:03] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: I guess it failed :(
[17:04] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: yes, failed: 550 malware detected: MBL_144360.UNOFFICIAL: message rejected (in reply to end of DATA command))
[17:04] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: what does it mean?
[17:05] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: the remote mailserver detected malware in the mail you sent. that could be a virus or something thelike... what patches did you try to submit?
[17:06] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: here is the debdiff http://pastebin.com/P6rWVcEm
[17:07] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: hmm, that's strange. that shouldn't trigger any malware detection. maybe it was a temporary problem, just try sending again.
[17:07] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: sure.
[17:08] <Ampelbein> c2tarun: but I would remove the change to debian/control from the debdiff, it's not needed in debian
[17:08] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: hmm.... ok, I'll remove that.
[17:11] <c2tarun> Ampelbein: there is a problem, the debdiff generated by submittodebian is not showing changes of changelog.
[19:18] <TeTeT> hi, I would like to build a newer version of glib2.0 on 10.04 for trying out the new NetworkManager. I got the latest debian directory of the package via svn from svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/glib2.0. How do I get the source now? In a bazaar repo, I could do a 'bzr bd -S', is there any equivalent for svn?
[19:40] <Ampelbein> TeTeT: are you looking for 'svn-buildpackage'?
[19:41] <TeTeT> Ampelbein: thanks, that's it most likely :)
[19:41] <Ampelbein> ;-)
[19:42] <Ampelbein> TeTeT: you have to install it extra though.
[19:42] <Ampelbein> !info svn-buildpackage
[19:49] <TeTeT> Ampelbein: do you know if I can override the pristine check? I need to modify control and control.in to change some build dependencies
[19:51] <Ampelbein> TeTeT: --svn-ignore should do that (I can't test right now)
[19:58] <TeTeT> Ampelbein: starts to build now, thanks again
[20:09] <highvoltage> f/win 27
[20:09] <c2tarun_> If I fix any ftbfs bug for natty machine and submit it to debian. How can i connect LP page of that bug to its debian page?
[20:10] <paultag> c2tarun_: just paste the debbug URL in the report
[20:10] <paultag> c2tarun_: be sure to note it was forwarded
[20:11] <iulian> There's a "Also affects distribution/package" button in Launchpad.
[20:11] <iulian> If this is what you mean.
[20:11] <c2tarun_> paultag: I included the debbug number in changelog. will it be enough?
[20:11] <paultag> c2tarun_: not for the LP bug report :)
[20:12] <paultag> c2tarun_: LP bug should be linked to debian's bts, and when you upload, the changelog should close the debbug and the lp bug
[20:13] <c2tarun_> paultag: how can i link it to debian's bts?
[20:14] <paultag> c2tarun_: just paste the debbug URL in the report
[20:14] <paultag> c2tarun_: be sure to note it was forwarded
[20:14] <c2tarun_> paultag: ok thanks :)
[20:14] <paultag> c2tarun_: sure :)
[20:31] <ari-tczew> lucas_: do you planning rebuild ubuntu archive to get ftbfs output? a lot of errors are deprecated, now are other failrues
[21:10] <bdrung> tumbleweed: pull-debian-source foo unstable fails, but pull-debian-source foo sid works
[21:13] <tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks, I'll have a look later
[21:13] <bdrung> thx
[21:14] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what's the command will be for snapshot?
[21:15] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: nothing special, if the version isn't available from anywhere else, it will come from snapshot
[21:15] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so how can I specify package and version?
[21:16] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: pull-debian-source foo 0.1.2-3
[21:30] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok thnx
[22:22] <ari-tczew> c2tarun_: ping
[23:09] <bdrung> tumbleweed: maybe "Aborting at user request" -> "User abort."
[23:10] <tumbleweed> sure
[23:11] <tumbleweed> we still don't handle squeeze-updates, squeeze-p-u, -security, etc
[23:12] <bdrung> tumbleweed: your comments to bug #728751?
[23:13] <tumbleweed> the comma is optional. It's probably more correct to omit it, although I also use them like that quite often.
[23:19] <bdrung> tumbleweed: and the restructuring of the if clause?
[23:19] <tumbleweed> works for me
[23:20] <bdrung> and the error message format change?
[23:20] <tumbleweed> it seems a more maintainable solution
[23:20] <bdrung> tumbleweed: ok, then feel free to merge that branch. i am going to bed now.


[03:18] <zerothis> how would one install android x86 using chroot under lubuntu?
[03:19] <holstein> zerothis: i would do it carefully according to their documentation
[03:19] <zerothis> google has documentation for that? cool. where?
[03:20] <holstein> i personally suggest looking at androidx86 before you bother..
[03:20] <holstein> zerothis: id just ask them where the documenation is
[03:20] <holstein> documentation
[03:21] <holstein> i say, try http://www.genymotion.com/ and see if that meets your need
[03:21] <holstein> if you think you are going to install android x86 in chroot and run a bunch of native android applications on ubuntu, i would experiment with a live CD or something first.. thats not the case..
[03:23] <holstein> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/29gb9x/possible_to_run_native_linux_apps_on_androidx86/ seems much more constructive...
[03:23] <zerothis> well, I did plan to do it then undo it in virtualbox first, just to note feasibility
[03:26] <zerothis> I've done Linux apps on android, android emulation, android visualization. I'm thinking I want to try out android chroot on ubuntu now
[03:26] <holstein> go for it.. nothing about lubuntu is preventing it
[03:27] <holstein> i would check with #ubuntu and see if you find someone doing that.. its not an lxde or lubuntu specific thing
[06:32] <Basketball> is anyone here good with rtcwake and crontab
[08:28] <Name141> Does Lubuntu have a "LTS" ?
[08:28] <Name141> now that is
[08:30] <Name141> LTS Support (3 years).
[08:30] <Name141> I guess os
[08:30] <Name141> And so.
[10:51] <onla> tryiing to get my usb wlan dontle to get to work on lubuntu but when i stick it on the iwconfig dont show wlan0 or such but the lsuab shows ralink technologies
[10:52] <onla> do i need t modprobe or something
[10:52] <onla> or install some drivers
[10:59] <onla> dmest not says that new hisped usb dev|ce found using ehci-pci and gives idvendor idproduct
[10:59] <onla> dmesg only says*
[11:01] <talsamon> phillw, good morning ... was a new install yesterday... :-((
[11:15] <testdr> onla: check the product-name of your wlan-usb-dongle - and dmesg long after boot might not show any hints, you should check /var/log/kern.log too
[11:19] <onla> http://www.dx.com/p/aya-80211n-wi-fi-ieee802-11b-g-n-150mbps-usb-wireless-n-usb-adapter-black-256902#.VAMEgXWSykA
[11:19] <onla> it's this one
[11:22] <onla> I have 2 diff usb wlan dongles and I plug and unplugged both and the other one works (they are different brand) so not sure which one refers to which one in kern.log
[11:23] <onla> but I guess the one that doesn't work, it doesn't show the product name in kern.log, just same info as in dmesg, those idproduct and idvendor
[11:23] <onla> Aug 31 13:58:00 v-MS-7599 kernel: [ 1544.870770] usb 1-1.1.4: New USB devi
[11:23] <onla> ce found, idVendor=148f, idProduct=7601
[11:24] <onla> i find some tutor from 2012
[11:25] <onla> ial
[11:27] <testdr> onla: there seems problems with this wlan-stick (a ralink one?) - first found was this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/422647/how-to-decide-which-drivers-for-ralink-148f7601
[11:29] <testdr> onla: what ubuntu-Version you are using? Kernel-Version?
[11:30] <onla> yea this is 0x148f ralink tech corp 0x7601
[11:30] <testdr> onla: cause for newer kernel, there seems better support - maybe check here for your wlan-usb: https://wiki.debian.org/rt2800usb
[11:31] <onla> uname -r says 3.13.0-24-generic and I'm on lubuntu 14.04
[11:32] <testdr> onla: from short reading thru the last debian-wiki-link, it looks like you need the firmware for this usb-dongle
[11:32] <onla> ok
[11:33] <onla> apt-get update && apt-get install firmware-ralink with this one? do I need to add some repositories. that link has debian repos
[11:34] <onla> hmm I gotta go, thanks for the help
[11:34] <onla> I will continue from here
[11:34] <onla> when I get back
[11:35] <testdr> onla: sorry, but i dont have this hardware - i only know, there are different firmware packages available (for different hardware) and those are not installed as default and automatically. That could be the reason why your usb-stick is not activated.
[13:37] <HiDeHo-NZ> Hi all i am looking for extra panel aplets. specificklly one to display the cpu info.
[13:38] <rafaellaguna> the only way to do that is using indicators
[13:39] <HiDeHo-NZ> ok rafaellaguna where do i find the indicators
[13:39] <HiDeHo-NZ> in other desktops the panel has an applet that shows the load cpu has. for quick viewing.
[13:39] <rafaellaguna> you can add indicator applet to the panel, and then use Lubunu Software Center and look for them
[13:40] <rafaellaguna> if you just want to show the cpu activity there's an applet for that, already included with Lubuntu
[13:40] <rafaellaguna> just right-click, add applet and you'll see it
[13:41] <HiDeHo-NZ> rafaellaguna, i knwo it sa default on the panel in lubuntu
[13:41] <HiDeHo-NZ> i want to knwo how to install the cpu aplet
[13:42] <rafaellaguna> sudo apt-get install indicator-multiload
[13:42] <rafaellaguna> then, once added indicator-applets, you'd be able to see it in the next login
[13:43] <HiDeHo-NZ> what are you omn abotu
[13:43] <rafaellaguna> sorry?
[13:44] <rafaellaguna> here's a page with indicators: http://www.howtogeek.com/118908/10-awesome-indicator-applets-for-ubuntus-unity-desktop/
[13:45] <HiDeHo-NZ> the indicator aplet is a gnome aplet. i am using lubuntu it has indicator-applications installed.
[13:45] <HiDeHo-NZ> will the indicator-applet work in lubuntu.
[13:45] <HiDeHo-NZ> i am no tusing ubunjtu with unigy i am on lubuntu
[13:45] <rafaellaguna> all the indicators should work in gnome and unity. to watch them in Lubuntu you need the indicator-applet.
[13:46] <HiDeHo-NZ> ok thanks so they will work
[13:46] <rafaellaguna> yes. all indicators are visible through the indicator-applet. you can install as many as you want
[13:46] <rafaellaguna> except app-menu, that will not work
[13:50] <testdr> HiDeHo-NZ: for more monitoring you should lookup "conky"
[13:53] <HiDeHo-NZ> yes i know about the conky i prefer gkrellm it has same info as conky bvut better look and feel.
[13:54] <HiDeHo-NZ> http://gkrellm.srcbox.net/   take a look at that one
[13:54] <HiDeHo-NZ> testdr, ^ ^^
[13:56] <HiDeHo-NZ> testdr, also gkrellm is smaller
[13:58] <testdr> if i would go for size and performance, id use xosview
[14:04] <HiDeHo-NZ> what si that
[14:22] <Basketball> is anyone here good with rtcwake and crontab
[14:24] <onla> how do I try the "native one" suggested on this post? When I plug in my wlan adapter rt5370, I won't get any wlan0 or such as it doesn't load any driver for this dongle or so http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2218445&p=13004660#post13004660
[14:26] <onla> tried to compile the driver and got same errors so same problem with the driver as explained on #4
[14:32] <switchtehbeat> hi there, I want to dual boot windows 7 & lubuntu 14.04.01, I just done a fresh install of windows 7. just made an install of Lubuntu 14.04.01 to my USB stick, can I boot from USB AND then install along side windows 7? I do I need to make a new partition?
[14:38] <Basketball> is anyone here good with rtcwake and crontab
[14:47] <onla> so I load this driver for my wlan dongle with sudo modprobe rt2800usb and I can see 4 entries with rt on lsmod after this. However still there is no interface wlan0 in the iwconfig
[14:49] <testdr> onla: you did check the log-file-entries for the correct identification from the loading (new) drivers?
[14:50] <testdr> onla: and last, did you do the driver load after a reboot or after a unload of any old drivers?
[14:50] <onla> I checked but I don't know what I should learn from there
[14:51] <onla> it didn't load any drivers when I stick the dongle in. I have to manually do modprobe
[14:51] <onla> or so I think, but my knowledge is limited
[14:52] <onla> and I tried both. Just tried to reboot, nothing starting with rt loaded when checked with lsmod, so I do sudo modprobe rt2800usb  after this 4 rt entries in lsmod and dmesg has some more messages but no errors or such, yet doesn't put new interface like wlan0
[14:53] <onla> and after this I put my other wlan dongle in, so that I can connect to the internet, and now I have both wlan dongles in, so that I can use internet
[14:55] <onla> waat.. I don'ẗ have a /var/log/kern.log file anymore o.O
[14:55] <onla> I didn't delete it
[14:55] <testdr> onla: then you have no choice, you can only look for an update with automatical instlall - but from what i did read for this wlan-usb, the firmware is not free and therefore is not automatical in a new kernel version. For a not identified hardware, you have to enable the vendor/product-key to let the system load the correct driver and for this usb-stick, you have to provide the firmware.
[14:55] <onla> ah, forgot / from before var
[14:57] <testdr> onla: there were entries in the ubuntu-forum about this wlan-usb-stick. Maybe you do check again, because i did only a quick search about it
[14:58] <onla> I tried searching there too, but I couldn't find either :/ Maybe I should post there myself
[14:59] <onla> generally when people do modprobe rtsomething for rt wlan cards, should after this the interface wlan0 or such appear to iwconfig automatically?
[15:00] <onla> I mean should that wlan0 appear to me after I do modprobe
[15:02] <onla> Do you have an clues about this:
[15:02] <onla> http://superuser.com/questions/692229/install-driver-for-rt5370-on-ubuntu  when I do that modinfo rt2800usb | grep 5370 <- I get 2 alias lines, the other one being the one listed there, but also alias:          usb:vF201p5370d*dc*dsc*dp*ic*isc*ip*in*
[15:04] <onla> so I tried to perform those 3 steps there, but the rmmod rt5572sta says that the module is not currently loaded
[15:09] <switchtehbeat> Lubuntu 14.04.01 will not reconize my windows install, it doesn't allow me to install along side windows 7. I even created a new parition just for Lubuntu 14.04.01 but it doesn't see it?
[15:09] <switchtehbeat> is that because it's my USB?
[15:11] <switchtehbeat> surely someone know's :/
[15:11] <switchtehbeat> I check my disk for errors and it was okay....
[15:11] <rafaellaguna> how many partitions do you have?
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> 2
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> 1 for windows 7 and 1 for lubuntu
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> it doesn't show up though
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> it just says 160gb hdd
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> :/
[15:12] <rafaellaguna> the installer doesn't show the win7 partition?
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> nope
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> just says the hdd has 160gb free space :S
[15:12] <switchtehbeat> I'm on windows now..
[15:13] <rafaellaguna> which version of Lubuntu are you trying to install?
[15:13] <switchtehbeat> the latest one
[15:13] <switchtehbeat> 14.04.01
[15:13] <rafaellaguna> are you booting from that usb?
[15:13] <switchtehbeat> yeah
[15:13] <rafaellaguna> and you're in live mode
[15:13] <switchtehbeat> yep tried that and it doesn't show :(
[15:14] <rafaellaguna> open gparted
[15:14] <switchtehbeat> that doesn't do anything either, it says the same as the install
[15:14] <rafaellaguna> and disk utility?
[15:14] <switchtehbeat> didn't try that -.-
[15:14] <switchtehbeat> how do i open that?
[15:14] <rafaellaguna> it's in preferences menu, I think
[15:15] <switchtehbeat> also, my usb can boot from uefi (?) or just the name of it, what do i choose?
[15:15] <rafaellaguna> or terminal and "gnome-disks"
[15:15] <switchtehbeat> brb then
[15:15] <rafaellaguna> okay :)
[16:43] <switchtehbeat> no matter what I try, Lubuntu 14.04.01 won't reconize my windows install. cannot install along side windows. :(
[16:44] <switchtehbeat> looks like I gotta stay with shitty windows :(
[16:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> switchtehbeat, are you having EFI boot?
[16:48] <switchtehbeat> idk
[16:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> Are you using Windows 8 ?
[16:48] <switchtehbeat> nope
[16:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> Or is it an old PC?
[16:48] <switchtehbeat> windows 7
[16:49] <IAmNotThatGuy> Please share the Laptop model
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> new pc but windows 7
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> it's not a laptop
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> it's a desktop
[16:49] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> i can choose uefi or legacy boot
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> i chose legacy/uefi
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> no
[16:49] <switchtehbeat> now...
[16:50] <switchtehbeat> my windows install is okay just lubuntu won't detect it :(
[16:50] <switchtehbeat> this has happened before but can't remember how I fixed it :(
[16:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> Hope you have to re-install grub and that will solve the problem
[16:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> Do you have a live CD/USB ?
[16:51] <switchtehbeat> I have lubuntu 14.04.01 on my usb stick
[16:52] <switchtehbeat> how do I install grub? lubuntu won't even install/detect my windows
[16:52] <switchtehbeat> windows 7 IS installed though
[16:52] <switchtehbeat> im on it right now
[16:52] <switchtehbeat> :( i hate windows ugh :(
[16:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. I will tell you two things. 1. Restart your machine and press the button that takes you to the boot options
[16:53] <switchtehbeat> yes
[16:53] <switchtehbeat> ?
[16:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> see whether you have an Entry for Ubuntu
[16:53] <switchtehbeat> nope there isn't
[16:53] <switchtehbeat> i only have windows installed
[16:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> switchtehbeat, You installed Lubuntu and that is not getting detected right?
[16:54] <switchtehbeat> nope
[16:54] <switchtehbeat> I done a fresh install of windows 7 and want to dual boot with lubutnu but lubuntu install won't detect windows..
[16:54] <switchtehbeat> i did say
[16:55] <IAmNotThatGuy> You mean your Live USB is not detected?
[16:55] <switchtehbeat> no
[16:55] <switchtehbeat> i try to install from my usb stick but it's not detecting my partitions or windows 7 hence why i cannot install along side windows 7
[16:55] <switchtehbeat> see what i mean?
[16:56] <switchtehbeat> someone said update grub?
[16:56] <IAmNotThatGuy> switchtehbeat, is it possible for you to use the Live USB and come online here? I'd like to check some details about your partitions
[16:57] <switchtehbeat> okay brb
[16:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> That was me. I thought that Lubuntu was installed. My bad. Sorry
[17:08] <IAmNotThatGuy> Anybody around?
[17:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> I gtg now. If switchehbeat comes back, please check 1. his current partitioning by doing sudo fdisk -l 2. If this has only one partition, better ask him to shrink the partition in Windows to make sure that he is not deleting the partition. 3. Ask him to come back to Live UST and check whether he can install. 4. Also make sure that he is doing in a legacy mode as boot mode. UEFI sometimes blocks the partitions
[19:07] <switchtehbeat> it still isn't working :/ help???
[19:07] <switchtehbeat> update grub says grub isn't installed
[19:07] <switchtehbeat> i install and update it but it throws errors
[19:08] <switchtehbeat> notthing i try is working
[19:08] <switchtehbeat> -.-
[19:08] <switchtehbeat> help?
[19:08] <switchtehbeat> i really wanna use lubuntu :(
[19:08] <rafaellaguna> hello
[19:08] <switchtehbeat> ?
[19:09] <switchtehbeat> can anyone help? i'm going insane!
[19:10] <rafaellaguna> don't :D
[19:10] <switchtehbeat> don't what?
[19:11] <rafaellaguna> don't go insane :)
[19:11] <rafaellaguna> are you running Lubuntu now?
[19:11] <switchtehbeat> no i can't install it because it doesn't reconize windows :(
[19:11] <rafaellaguna> are you able to run from usb in live mode?
[19:11] <switchtehbeat> yes
[19:12] <rafaellaguna> open the command line (msdos or whatever)
[19:12] <switchtehbeat> ? in windows or lubuntu?
[19:12] <rafaellaguna> windows, the one you are now
[19:12] <switchtehbeat> okay
[19:13] <switchtehbeat> what command should I exicute?
[19:13] <rafaellaguna> let me check...
[19:15] <switchtehbeat> ....?
[19:15] <rafaellaguna> http://www.dkszone.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/controlpaneladministrativetools.jpg
[19:15] <switchtehbeat> ????
[19:16] <switchtehbeat> what about it?
[19:16] <rafaellaguna> don't you have it?
[19:16] <rafaellaguna> open my pc
[19:17] <switchtehbeat> yeah but not sure what you're on about
[19:17] <rafaellaguna> in admin tools there's a section called disk management
[19:17] <rafaellaguna> it's a disk partitioner
[19:17] <switchtehbeat> yes?
[19:17] <rafaellaguna> I think you may have a weird partition table
[19:18] <switchtehbeat> lubuntu did say something might be corrupt, gpt or something
[19:18] <switchtehbeat> no idea what that means
[19:18] <rafaellaguna> yes
[19:18] <switchtehbeat> so what should I do?
[19:18] <rafaellaguna> open admin tools, look for it in the menus
[19:18] <rafaellaguna> administrative tools
[19:18] <switchtehbeat> yeah in in disk management
[19:19] <rafaellaguna> YES!
[19:19] <rafaellaguna> open it and tell me what you see
[19:19] <switchtehbeat> system reserved and c
[19:19] <switchtehbeat> then my 2 memory sticks
[19:20] <rafaellaguna> type of partition of "system reserved" and "c"
[19:20] <switchtehbeat> sec uploading pic
[19:20] <rafaellaguna> nice
[19:21] <switchtehbeat> here you go
[19:21] <switchtehbeat> http://minus.com/i/bD7yWkKspxid
[19:21] <switchtehbeat> http://minus.com/i/bD7yWkKspxid
[19:21] <switchtehbeat> http://i.minus.com/ibD7yWkKspxid.png
[19:21] <switchtehbeat> there
[19:21] <rafaellaguna> looking...
[19:23] <switchtehbeat> ?
[19:23] <rafaellaguna> switchtehbeat, all looks fine
[19:23] <switchtehbeat> sigh
[19:23] <rafaellaguna> I'm looking and looking for something wrong, but nope
[19:24] <rafaellaguna> have you tried removing (when installing) everything? I mean, using that "new partition table" button on the installer
[19:24] <switchtehbeat> I don't get what you mean...
[19:24] <rafaellaguna> wait...
[19:25] <rafaellaguna> http://i.stack.imgur.com/H8Vwj.png   see the button at your right?
[19:25] <rafaellaguna> it "kills" everything
[19:26] <switchtehbeat> yeah but I want my windows install kept..
[19:27] <testdr> switchtehbeat: you already tried a complete new install? First windows and now linux?
[19:27] <switchtehbeat> yes testdr
[19:28] <switchtehbeat> this is my 2nd fresh install of windows
[19:28] <switchtehbeat> still the same
[19:28] <switchtehbeat> :/
[19:28] <testdr> switchtehbeat: sorry, but you have to do it again. But in a different way.
[19:28] <rafaellaguna> his partitions are fine, with normal disks, this is weird. we are missing something
[19:28] <switchtehbeat> different way? i dont' care aslong asit works
[19:29] <testdr> switchtehbeat: you first boot the ubuntu -live-usb, but you dont install linux. You only partition the harddisk. you create a medium sized partition for windows an another one for linux - maybe the rest as an extenden partion for special later use
[19:30] <switchtehbeat> what?>
[19:30] <testdr> switchtehbeat: for windows system partition you need a size of about 50 GB and for the linux system partition choose something like the same
[19:30] <switchtehbeat> so I boot lubuntu from my usb stick, create 2 partitions? then install windows then lubuntu@?
[19:30] <testdr> after the partitioning - you start windows and install windows to the first partition and check it can boot
[19:31] <switchtehbeat> so I boot lubuntu from my usb stick, create 2 partitions? then install windows then lubuntu@?
[19:31] <switchtehbeat> that correct?
[19:31] <testdr> then you boot ubuntu-live-version and install it to the second partition and let it create the boot-grub-manager on your harddisk.
[19:31] <switchtehbeat> please see above
[19:32] <switchtehbeat> so I boot lubuntu from my usb stick, create 2 partitions? then install windows then lubuntu@?
[19:32] <testdr> switchtehbeat: yes - the trick is to do the partitioning so windows wont use the whole disk
[19:32] <switchtehbeat> you're confusing
[19:32] <absk007> how to remove sublime text completely such that when i reinstall it, it doesn't tell my copy is Expired?
[19:32] <switchtehbeat> testdr, i cba to install windows over and over again, keep configuring shit. will this defiantly work?
[19:32] <testdr> switchtehbeat: if you are a windows-crack (but most users are not) you really can do the same with the windows install - but its a bit hidden
[19:33] <switchtehbeat> testdr, i cba to install windows over and over again, keep configuring shit. will this defiantly work?
[19:33] <switchtehbeat> I know how to partition lol it's just lubuntu sees nothing on the hdd
[19:33] <testdr> switchtehbeat: meaning of "cba"?
[19:33] <switchtehbeat> I know how to partition lol it's just lubuntu sees nothing on the hdd
[19:34] <switchtehbeat> so you're way will work tyes?
[19:34] <switchtehbeat> gonna try
[19:34] <switchtehbeat> will let you know
[19:35] <testdr> switchtehbeat: you are using some different kind of harddisk-drivers? Check bios - there may be some hard/software-secure systems locking your hardware.
[19:36] <testdr> argh - always such quick dropouts - quicker than i can type ..
[20:41] <fab_> bonjour
[21:53] <switchtehbeat> I sorted it :) now dual booting windows 7 and lubuntu :) yay me!
[21:53] <switchtehbeat> thanks for your help btw. ;)
[23:51] <HiDeHo-NZ> Hi all just wanting to know if its is possible to get a ram usage monitor for lxde on panel


[01:03] <spridel> at least you can bring the munchkin to bsides and let her have fun at lockpick village :D
[01:20] <mrand> might just do that.  I'll try to remember to bring a few of my more unique locks
[02:02] <spridel> she had a lot of fun here at bsides austin, and andrew is going to be there as well.
[03:01] <mrand> spridel: yes, I'm coming to be Andrew's crash test dummy again.  Not sure if I can keep my daughter interested the whole day.
[03:13] <spridel> uh-oh, go go hack-kid-con
[06:31] <texaswriter_> cool.
[06:32] <texaswriter_> there's actually conversation in here. anybody awake in here?
[15:54] <Linden940> lol texaswriter
[15:54] <Linden940> how are you doing?
[15:55] <Linden940> <<been sick an so I have hardly been on the computer..and on top of that I still had to work
[19:11] <Linden940> guess everyone is still in bed
[19:15] <Linden940> hello stlsaint long time no chat
[19:15] <Linden940> how are you doing?
[19:18] <stlsaint> Linden940: sup man
[19:19] <Linden940> relaxing...trying to get over a bad flu
[19:19] <stlsaint> oh me too...sinus infection for weeks now
[19:19] <Linden940> yea
[19:19] <Linden940> i got hit real bad monday...had to take monday off
[19:20] <Linden940> worked all day tue and wed
[19:20] <Linden940> it killed me..but got done what i needed done..now its just paper work and shit i can do at the computer
[19:22] <Linden940> and you have had a sinus infection for weeks? damm...hope mine dont last that long lmao
[19:23] <stlsaint> yea sucks bad
[19:23] <stlsaint> im still over here in kuwait man
[19:23] <Linden940> lol i bet
[19:23] <Linden940> still?
[19:24] <stlsaint> yep ill be home for xmas though so thats good
[19:24] <Linden940> that works
[19:25] <stlsaint> finally be able to get back to a solid connection and my servers, my connection here is top's 128KB
[19:28] <Linden940> OUCH
[19:28] <Linden940> That has to suck bad
[19:28] <Linden940> but what I can tell you...back here in the states weather has been funky..or has been for Texas....we had 60+ some odd days of 100+ weather and no rain
[19:29] <Linden940> we are starting to get some rain...but very little
[19:31] <Linden940> well I will be in and out..so I will reply alittle slow but i am here
[19:36] <stlsaint> Linden940: ha, ive been dealing with MONTHS of 120+ heat here lol
[19:49] <spridel> could be worse, you could be on Bahrain.
[19:49] <spridel> 120+ AND 100% humidity without rain.
[19:57] <stlsaint> spridel: agreed
[19:58]  * spridel lived in bahrain for 2 years while growing up.
[19:58] <stlsaint> wow
[20:04] <spridel> father was a lifer, he got stationed there
[20:40] <Linden940> well...damm
[20:41] <Linden940> lol I love the heat but not when its like being in a oven cooking
[20:41] <stlsaint> yea
[20:48] <Linden940> well I am heading off to the store
[20:48] <stlsaint> later
[21:36] <Linden940> well...the mower wont start now


[03:17] <arraybolt3[m]> @Leokolb, @guiverc: Scam ^
[03:17] <arraybolt3[m]> @Leokolb, @guiverc: Another scam ^
 orbital nuked on Telegram
 y'all seem to forget I have telegram admin power too xD
[03:28]  * guiverc just flags when I don't have the power
[03:28] <arraybolt3[m]> @teward001: Thanks. (Yep, /me forgot.)
[03:29]  * arraybolt3[m] overnights a black hole's worth of espresso to teward's house
 hah
[03:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (In the unlikely event you have admin power over in #kde-devel:kde.org, too, the same bots are pestering them.)
 E:NOACCESS on KDE
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> :(
 yeah i'm not a big KDE person
 and i'm not in all the matrix channels either, i just have orbital nuke on Telegram :P
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> One or both of us needs to get simultaneous jobs at Libera, Element, and Telegram.
[03:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Then we can orbital nuke everywhere :D
 *becomes Ruler of the World, and therefore everyone must obey, or suffer the consequences*
 *sips booz*
[03:33] <arraybolt3[m]> OK that may be a little overkill.
[03:33] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't think that story ends well when one of us decides to get into a sparring match with the black hole projector.
 you mean THIS black hole projector?  *holds up the BHP*
 *paints @tsimonq2 's location with a black hole using the BHP*
 aaaaaaaanyways.  i only stopped on to burn the spam.. *goes back to the shadows*
[03:39] <arraybolt3[m]> 👋
[13:40] <tsimonq2> Good morning. Finally all back, settled, and refreshed from my work trip earlier this week.
[13:41] <tsimonq2> teward: uhhhh I can try again, last time I was interrupted in the middle of it and didn't get the chance to go back
[13:41] <RikMills> please try vlc with some mp4 files ;)
[13:41]  * RikMills runs off
[13:41] <tsimonq2> anyway
[13:41] <tsimonq2> when I say things have been chaotic I meant it ;)
[13:42] <tsimonq2> yeah? is it broken?
[13:42] <RikMills> in a vm yes on the sample mp4s I tried. and on a hardware live session for me.
[13:43] <RikMills> but confirmation on a real installed system would be good
[13:43] <RikMills> currently I don't have a kinetic one
[13:44] <tsimonq2> oic
[13:44] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Bug report anywhere I can read backlog on?
[13:45] <RikMills> not yet. if someone will confirm, I will make one
[13:45] <tsimonq2> well I just confirmed something is wrong on my freshly-installed real Kinetic hardware
[13:45] <tsimonq2> I just don't know precisely what I'm looking at
[13:47] <RikMills> nor do I. search the command line error hasn't provided much insight
[13:47] <RikMills> *searching
[13:47] <RikMills> vlc usually spews many warnings
[13:48] <RikMills> anyway, now I know it is not some weird VM thing, I can report it later
[13:49] <RikMills> thanks :)
[13:53] <RikMills> I am tempted to blame ffmpeg5 ;)
[13:53] <RikMills> but dragon-player that uses libvlc as a backend works, so not so clear
 Lubuntu or Kubuntu - maybe both? (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <RikMills> please try vlc with some mp4 files ;))
[15:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: vlc doesn't use ffmpeg5, so it can't be that.
[15:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> it has its own code library (libvlc)
[15:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's probably a problem in the frontend.
[15:36] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: vlc build depends on the ffmpeg -dev packages
[15:36] <RikMills> but yes, the front end is likely the issue
[15:38] <RikMills> in fact, the last rebuild of vlc in the archive was a no change rebuild by steve against the new ffmpeg libs
[15:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Does mplayer still work? Might help uncover if it's ffmpeg's fault or not. (But Dragon Player still works so...)
[15:41] <RikMills> the forum post that alerted me to this says that mpv using things are still still ok
[15:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I can say this: per my testing, it doesn't matter if it's DE or X11 or Wayland, MP4 doesn't work on VLC.
[15:41] <RikMills> indeed
[15:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> Is there a bug report yet?
[15:42] <RikMills> no, as I didn't want to do it from a VM
[15:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> I did it from actual hardware.
[15:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I have a Kinetic install right here, lemme try and help confirm too.
[15:44] <RikMills> that is what we need, as VM video is dodgy at best anyway, and could have irrelevant error messages
[15:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (Is it OK that the system I have here is Xubuntu Core? It's made by a Xubuntu developer, and is essentially Xubuntu but with almost no preinstalled apps, so it's tiny. Not sure if using an unofficial flavor for this test is OK or not, though I suspect it is.)
[15:47] <RikMills> it shouldn't matter for testing
[15:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer, RikMills: I'm getting audio but no video even with a .ogv file here.
[15:47] <arraybolt3[m]> So it's not MP4 specific.
[15:48] <RikMills> sigh
[15:48] <RikMills> thanks
[15:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Whoa that's weird. I closed VLC and opened it again and now it's working.
[15:48]  * RikMills raises eyebrow
[15:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Just after I installed mplayer for testing.
[15:49] <RikMills> curious
[15:49]  * arraybolt3[m] removes mplayer and autoremoves to see what happens.
[15:49] <RikMills> have to go for a bit
[15:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Sigh, nope, now it's just working. :/
[15:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> Weird...
[15:50] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, pulling an mp4 from Pexels.
[15:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Cannot duplicate.
[15:52] <arraybolt3[m]> OK so on my (slow) laptop that I'm trying this on, when I open an MP4, I get a black screen and various odd behavior with the window size, but when I close VLC, I see a flash of the video just before the window vanishes.
[15:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> That's exactly what I see.
[15:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> On my (incredibly fast) computer.
[15:54]  * arraybolt3[m] still wonders what was up with that .ogv a bit ago, but at least we can duplicate mp4 problems
[15:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> My MP4 might be shoddy, I can't make it open in dragon player even.
[15:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Upon closing the .ogv, I see a black screen flash in a totally different location of my screen just before VLC closes. So something seems wrong here.
[15:57] <arraybolt3[m]> I just use a drone video off Pexels, I have one that plays in Dragon Player without issues but fails on VLC.
[15:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I see a ton of "chain filter error: Too high level of recursion (3)" in the logs of VLC.
[15:58] <arraybolt3[m]> And also "main filter error: Failed to create video converter"
[15:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm using a friend of mine's vod from Twitch. Same issue.
[15:59] <arraybolt3[m]> And also "co located POCs unavailable"
[15:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm investigating the package from Debian.
[16:00] <arraybolt3[m]> That last one I keep getting tons of over and over.
[16:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Multimedia team maintained (which I'm technically part of).
[16:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Looks like it's the latest version, per videolan.org
[16:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Just tested the snap, it works.... 🙄
[16:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Imma try a no-change rebuild in my PPA (grasping at straws)
[16:07]  * arraybolt3[m] takes a swing at building from source
[16:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> My changelog entry: "No-change rebuild against anything" KEK
[16:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> Now, I know the reason why the snap works: It was built against ffmpeg4.
[16:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Eh, so my test on Jammy isn't going to work, it's on ffmpeg4.
[16:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Correct.
[16:11] <arraybolt3[m]> And no way am I making my Chromebook build anything from source with its speed.
[16:11]  * arraybolt3[m] checks for a Kinetic VM already installed
[16:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh wait I have a Debian Sid VM, that might be even better.
[16:12] <arraybolt3[m]> (If it survives an apt upgrade that is.)
[16:12] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oof best of luck.
[16:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, SUPPOSEDLY vlc supports ffmpeg 5: https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc/-/merge_requests/1245
[16:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm... except for VAAPI?
[16:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, VAAPI is undergoing some patent troll stuff.
[16:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe that's the problem, is it trying to use VAAPI when it shouldn't?
[16:19]  * arraybolt3[m] hopes the US joins with the EU in saying "no you can't patent software", this codec nonsense is insane
[16:19] <arraybolt3[m]> (But whatever, that's off-topic.)
[16:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, that lovely feeling as you watch various LXQt components get removed during the upgrade and you really really hope that's because they're about to be replaced :P
[16:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope, looks like Debian Sid just nuked LXQt. Sigh. Well at least I know how to use the terminal and I might still be left with Trinity Desktop Environment (let's hope).
[16:32] <arraybolt3[m]> (Shoulda' looked at the list of packages to be removed.)
[16:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> My mock "no-change rebuild" was unsuccessful.
[16:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, so now that I've shredded my VM, let's try to install VLC. 🙃
[16:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Same symptoms on Debian Sid as on Ubuntu Kinetic, though slightly different errors in the terminal.
[17:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> I have the feeling this is going to be a bug report and a release note. I'm not seeing any bug reports in Debian that match this, so this will need to be reported in Debian as well.
[17:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Send the link to the report, I'll help confirm it.
[17:42] <arraybolt3[m]> (Whenever it's written.)
[17:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> I haven't written it. sigh And as I think about it, I probably should.
[17:46] <arraybolt3> You want me to?
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Being the de-facto multimedia guy for Ubuntu and all....
[17:46] <arraybolt3> Either way. I'm available if you need help.
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> If you could do the Debian one, that would be awesome.
[17:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Then I could link to that from the Launchpad bug report I'll write.
[17:48] <arraybolt3> OK. I'll see if I can wrangle it (I've never reported a Debian bug before).
[17:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, it's easy. There's even a command for it.
[17:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs
[17:49] <arraybolt3> I found that, just booting up the Debian VM so I do it from there and have the best chance of success. (My upgrade nuked LXQt for reasons unknown to me, but TDE survived so \o/)
[17:54] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer[m]: Does reportbug allow me to export the final bug report text as a text file and then send it with GMail?
[17:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I think so.
[18:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: One last thing, while I was making the bug report, it said that the debug log from VLC would be handy, so I made one according to its directions. Should I attach the contents of the log inline with the rest of the email? It's 183.4 KB file.
[18:20] <arraybolt3[m]> (Not sure if Debian actually wants me to do that, or if that's detrimental like it sorta sounds like.)
[18:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm not sure, to be honest.
[18:21] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll err on the side of caution and say "I have a debug log available, but it's 183.4 KB, so I didn't include it for fear of messing anyone up, if you'd like me to send it, let me know."
[18:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> I have LP: #1991418 if you'd like to comment there and add it as an attachment.
[18:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Will do. (Strange, reportbug didn't request any authentication info or anything, it just... sent the bug. (I forgot to say anything about the debug log 🤣))
[18:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> Automagic.
[18:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Did you get a debian bug number?
[18:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Not yet, they said within the hour.
[18:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ah.
[18:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Commented and confirmed Ubuntu bug.
[18:28] <arraybolt3[m]> (It's always a bit scary to me when thing work automagically when I would have expected that I would need a password or something. :P)
[18:28] <arraybolt3[m]> Woot, got the bug number!
[18:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nice!
[18:29] <arraybolt3[m]> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1021032
[18:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I got the email.
[18:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> (debian multimedia team member privs)
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, nice.
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Uh, should I put the link in the Launchpad bug or are you doing that already?
[18:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't know how to add bug watches, if I can.)
[18:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> I can do it.
[18:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Done.
[18:36] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, and now I just attached the debug log.
[18:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (Figuring stuff out!)
 FYI: rebooting the infra at OVH
 because (err: SLOW SHIT)
 (sorry i'm aggravated after trying to access it for over an hour, that one slipped)


[03:18] <user|11> isn't there a way I can sudo apt-get install Kubuntu or kde5?
[03:56] <karlnashville> whats up people?
[03:56] <karlnashville> nashville checking in
 yes , solved after
 1049  sudo systemctl status firewalld
  1050  sudo systemctl disable firewalld
  1051  sudo systemctl stop firewalld
  1052  sudo systemctl status firewalld
  1053  sudo ufw disable
[10:20] <user|7> Wondering if anyone can help me with a bit of a problem. Got a ryzen 7 5800-x chip. When I try to load kubuntu 20.04 or earlier I get a "unknown chipset" error and the system crashes. Wondering if 21.10 would work, or is the chipset just too new?
[10:29] <itzlightyhd> nice
[10:29] <itzlightyhd> never saw an irc chat
[14:02] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:35] <Basti[m]12> Hi, I have a strange problem with the KDE System tray. There is a blank, unclickable icon in it that I don't know how to remove. Please see next screenshot for details (next to the update tray). Has anyone an idea how to solve this?
[14:35] <Basti[m]12> In the settings there is an entry under misc, but with no option to disable it:
[14:35]  * Basti[m]12 uploaded an image: (7KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/eBjzZdBCytOFPkvfGTEgxmwo/Screenshot_20220130_091824.png >
[14:36]  * Basti[m]12 uploaded an image: (12KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/pJsKVHKOfGNhIstKCcvZkePd/Screenshot_20220130_091932.png >
[14:38] <Maik> Basti[m]12: if no one responded yet they either don't know the answer or no one is around to help with that. other channels to ask are #kde or #linux
[14:39] <Basti[m]12> Maik: OK Sorry! I got messaged by the libera bridge bot hours after the message, i thought it didn't geht through
[14:39] <Basti[m]12> * OK Sorry! I got messaged by the libera bridge bot hours after the message, i thought it didn't get through
[18:13] <user|65> Need android for kubuntu 16
 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-22.04-Systemd-OOMD
[21:50] <valorie> "kubuntu 16"? what on earth
[21:51] <valorie> it is 2022