[04:15] <micahg> mdeslaur: are you working on bug 592538?
[04:48] <jfer> hi. could you please tell me the best way to find a list of copyright holders for some sources?
[05:29] <jfer> can someone help me with packaging skype-call-recorder? it is my first package
[07:34] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:29]  * bilalakhtar sorts out some NBS
[08:30] <micahg> RenatoSilva: hi
[08:31] <micahg> RenatoSilva: so, I'd say file the LP bug, we can link the Debian bug, get it fixed in Debian, sync to Natty, then SRU to karmic, lucid, and maverick
[08:31] <RenatoSilva> micahg: hi, I' creating the bug report with patch
[08:31] <micahg> RenatoSilva: ooh, graet
[08:31] <RenatoSilva> SRU?
[08:31] <micahg> *great
[08:31] <micahg> !sru | RenatoSilva
[08:31] <RenatoSilva> ah ok
[08:32] <micahg> RenatoSilva: do you have the bug # handy?
[08:35] <RenatoSilva> writing yet wait
[08:37] <micahg> RenatoSilva: sorry, take your time
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> I am having a super-wierd upload error
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> The source package upload gets accepted
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> but after the package gets built
[08:39] <bilalakhtar> then after that, the binary upload from the builder to the archive fails
[08:40] <micahg> bilalakhtar: happens on occasion, do you have a log?
[08:40] <bilalakhtar> micahg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59537167/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.gnat_4.4%2B1ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
[08:41] <bilalakhtar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535806/
[08:41] <bilalakhtar> micahg: ^
[08:41] <bilalakhtar> brb
[08:42] <RenatoSilva> micahg: bug 680820
[08:43] <micahg> lifeless, can you take a look at bilalakhtar's pastebin?
[08:45] <micahg> RenatoSilva: that looks fine, can you attach to the debian bug as well?
[08:48] <RenatoSilva> I've sent an email pointing to LP, but not sure when it'll appear there
[08:48] <micahg> RenatoSilva: not failing on missing plugins would be an upstream build system bug
[08:48] <micahg> RenatoSilva: oh, did you reference the patch?
[08:49] <micahg> RenatoSilva: it should be fine in any case, debfx is a MOTU and subscribed in LP as well
[08:50] <RenatoSilva> I said look there for a patch
[08:51] <micahg> RenatoSilva: perfect
[08:52] <bilalakhtar> lifeless: it is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/535806/
[08:57] <micahg> RenatoSilva: ok, the bug's all set, thank you for the patch, feel free to poke me in a week if you don't see any updates
[08:58] <RenatoSilva> ok
[08:59] <RenatoSilva> regression are feature-removing bugs?
[08:59] <RenatoSilva> *regressions
[09:06] <micahg> RenatoSilva: generally where a feature in one release isn't in the next
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> ok
[09:07] <RenatoSilva> from #pidgin: (07:06:39) RenatoSilva: rekkanoryo: --with-plugins="non,existing,plugins" => if it aborted, .deb build would fail in debian and ubuntu and we wouldn't have wasted our time here, Kazuha, you and me :)
[09:08] <micahg> RenatoSilva: I thought the plugins didn't have anything to do w/the pidgin debs
[09:08] <micahg> *devs
[09:15] <RenatoSilva> micahg: rekkanoryo is one of the plugin pack developers
[09:15] <micahg> RenatoSilva: ah, ok, cool
[09:17] <RenatoSilva> actually it is one of the authors of irc-more itself [too]
[09:19] <RenatoSilva> I love how much time is wasted from people because of a simple thing like aborting a build of non-existing stuff
[10:42] <gaurava> hey all .. from yesterday .. I am struggling to setup a serial console on my ubuntu 10.10 machine ..
[10:42] <gaurava> ny help would be great
[10:42] <gaurava> I am basically following this article for the setup <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto> but no luck so far
[10:43] <gaurava> Then I simply connect the serial cable .. and trying to write on it .. by using command: $ > ehco "abcd" > /dev/ttyS0
[10:44] <gaurava> I can see that interrupts assigned to /dev/ttyS0 (IRQ - 4) is increasing ..
[10:44] <gaurava> but still there is no output on the other machine ..
[10:44] <gaurava> group ..  ny idea what else can I try ?
[12:43] <Daviey> Is someone available to sponsor? :)
[12:53] <BlackZ> Daviey: did you subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug?
[12:56] <soren> Daviey: Is it something fun?
[12:57] <nigelb> lol, that's nice, I think I'll give soren the review of the tar in tar package once its done :p
[13:01] <Daviey> BlackZ: there isn't a bug
[13:01] <Daviey> soren: not really :)
[13:02] <Daviey> soren: I think you were following the discussion in #lp , http://pb.daviey.com/m9pw/raw/
[13:03] <nigelb> Daviey: I think that was in response to your "Is someone available to sponsor?"
[13:06] <soren> Daviey: Sure, i can do that.
[13:06] <Daviey> soren: Appreciated ! :)
[13:09] <soren> Daviey: Is it a long bulid?
[13:09] <soren> build, even.
[13:09] <Daviey> soren: no
[13:10] <soren> Daviey: Great.
[13:14] <soren> Daviey: Uploaded.
[13:14] <Daviey> soren: groovy, thanks
[13:14] <soren> Daviey: np
[13:53] <soren> Daviey: I took the liberty of importing upstream's git on Launchpad in case you need it.
[13:53] <Daviey> soren: nice one!
[13:53] <Daviey> soren: I imagine you might need it soon, aswell :)
[13:53] <soren> Upstream?
[13:53] <soren> Hm.. Maybe.
[13:54] <soren> Well, probably. I tend to have a hard time keeping my hands off shiny, new things like this.
[13:54] <Daviey> :P
[15:56] <superm1> hi guys.  mythtv upstream is moving from svn to git. in the process of moving a lot of the helper scripts that we use for daily building and ease of use need to be updated.  Generally it seems discouraged to keep packaging upstream, but upstream agreed to service pull requests for debian/ . it seems that it would make more sense to me to keep it upstream, so is there any good arguments against that?
[15:57] <superm1> we currently don't build formal releases ever, but rather rolling snapshots of stable branches anyhow
[15:57] <superm1> so a bunch of git-buildpackage's features seem less relevant
[16:22] <ScottK> superm1: Is mythtv in Debian?
[16:23] <superm1> ScottK, no it's not
[16:24] <superm1> there have been some efforts to get it in, but I don't see it happening in the near future
[16:24] <ScottK> Then as long as they exclude it from an eventual real release tarball, I think it's fine.
[16:25] <superm1> yeah I expect they would.
[16:26] <superm1> they were actually were planning to keep it in packaging/debian, so anyone wanting to build would just have to ln -s packaging/debian debian;
[16:26] <superm1> so even if it were for some reason rolled into the release tarball i don't think it would be entirely harmful
[16:39] <Laney> If you use 3.0 (quilt) for your packaging (of releases) then it will delete upstream's debian/ directory anyway.
[16:41] <superm1> we currently use 3.0 (quilt), so that actually would be sensible if all the packaging was in packaging/debian and then our debian.tar.gz only had to contain a symlink to the proper location
[17:02] <ulysses> Hello, how can I solve the linking problem mentioned in the last comment? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hupnp
[17:20] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: around?
[17:47] <rulus> Good evening! I'm trying to make a debdiff to fix the Pidgin MSN SSL error in Lucid, but I'm unsure about the version number to use. Current version in Lucid is 1:2.6.6-1ubuntu4.1, so should it be 4.2 or 5 at the end?
[17:48] <micahg> rulus: 4.2, but I thought someone already uploaded that
[17:48] <rulus> ah, I don't see it in the bugreport, only for maverick
[17:49] <micahg> rulus: ah, yes, you're correct
[17:49] <rulus> so 4.2 it is, thanks! :)
[19:08] <gaurava> hey all
[19:09] <gaurava> I have a question ..
[19:10] <ari-tczew> gaurava: just ask
[19:10] <gaurava> I am currently looking into the issue w.r.t axis2c  <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/axis2c/+bug/600174>
[19:11] <gaurava> and then there are many more bugs open for the same component ..
[19:11] <m4n1sh> I want to report a broken dependency problem. Where do I have to file the bug
[19:12] <m4n1sh> or can anyone take it up here
[19:12] <gaurava> so what we are using rite now is axis2c v 1.6.0-0ubuntu9
[19:12] <gaurava> but what Debian guys have in their current branch is something like 1.6.0-2 version ..
[19:13] <gaurava> do you think it makes sense to update the Ubuntu axis2c package with Debian
[19:13] <gaurava> [DISCLAIMER}: I am a newbie over here and just fixed 2 type mistakes till this time. . :)
[19:14] <gaurava> Link of Debian axis2c package : http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/axis2c.html
[19:17] <gaurava> m4n1sh: if you are running Ubuntu rite now, you can use "ubuntu-bug" (aka apport) utility
[19:17] <gaurava> m4n1sh: Checkout this link for more detail https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[19:18] <m4n1sh> gaurava: it's about apport. basically useful for crashes
[19:18] <m4n1sh> I want to report the problem in broken dependencies
[19:21] <bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks for your work on wrap-and-sort, but next time please commit each change separately (1. tabs -> spaces convertion, 2. Correct typo 3. Sort debian/install 4. Add one-space-indentation 5. Remove null-entry)
[19:24] <tumbleweed> bdrung: it was a merge commit
[19:24] <tumbleweed> bdrung: but yes I could have committed them to trunk separately
[19:24] <bdrung> tumbleweed: sorry, didn't saw that is was a merge commit. then it's fine.
[19:25] <bdrung> tumbleweed: you don't have to mention ack-sync in debian/changelog - we do not install it
[19:25] <tumbleweed> good point that
[19:26] <ari-tczew> gaurava: IIRC axis2c from Debian is FTBFS
[19:26]  * tumbleweed is using offline holiday-time to work through some bug lists. I have some big refactoring in pbuilder-dist but it needs decent testing before I'll commit it
[19:27] <tumbleweed> not going to happen while I'm on GPRS
[19:28] <bdrung> tumbleweed: "Sort debian/install as well as debian/*.install" was on my todo list :)
[19:30] <tumbleweed> whoops, found some DEB_VENDOR changes in my pbuilder-dist branch
[19:30] <gaurava> air-tczew: how can i confirm the same? Is downloading the source code from the same and then running pbuilder build .... would be enough?
[19:36] <bdrung> tumbleweed: i do the "lenght" typo quite often
[19:36] <ari-tczew> gaurava: I encourage to use pbuilder-dist natty
[19:39] <gaurava> ari-tczew: pbuilder-dist natty ... does this command will create a pbuilder enviornment based on the natty distribution?
[19:39] <ari-tczew> gaurava: sudo pbuilder-dist create natty
[19:40] <gaurava> ari-tczew: Also, I am running maverick currently .. hopefully this command will not interfere with my system as it is ..
[19:41] <ari-tczew> gaurava: you can use maverick instead, but if you want introduce something to our current development cycle, you must build for natty.
[19:42] <bdrung> tumbleweed: you forgot to update the man page for wrap-and-sort
[19:43] <tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
[19:43] <bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have time to implement a feature request for wrap-and-sort?
[19:45] <tumbleweed> sure, what is it?
[19:45] <bdrung> tumbleweed: an option to specify the location of the debian directory
[19:45] <bdrung> (default will be "debian/"
[19:45] <bdrung> )
[19:46] <tumbleweed> why is that necessary?
[19:46] <bdrung> tumbleweed: because of the daily builds branches contain the content of the debian directory
[19:47] <tumbleweed> of course with multiple wrapping-styles, it should now be able to auto-detect wrapping-style and only be overridden if desired (but I'm leaving that for now)
[19:47] <bdrung> tumbleweed: example: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~audacity-team/audacity/daily-packaging
[19:48] <tumbleweed> oh you mean ./
[19:48] <bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
[19:48] <tumbleweed> sure, I'll do that now
[19:48] <bdrung> tumbleweed: or you can specify a full path, e.g. wrap-and-sort -d /tmp/buildtest/package-1.2/debian
[19:50] <gaurava> ari-tczew: yup, its not building from the source code
[19:50] <gaurava> ari-tczew: but still I am a little bit confused about the pbuilder stuff... can you explain it a little bit more or point me to some documentation/link
[19:50] <gaurava> ari-tczew: its just I have a single laptop that I used for my daily uses .. and have no intentions  to upgrade the same with natty release  :)
[19:51] <bdrung> tumbleweed: i have some question to your changes: the one-space-indentation should begin with a newline?
[19:51] <ari-tczew> gaurava: 1) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[19:51] <ari-tczew> gaurava: 2) man pbuilder
[19:52] <bdrung> tumbleweed: 2) can you give me an example for "Remove null-entry from trailing comma in sorted lists"?
[19:55] <tumbleweed> my preferred wrapping is either wrap at the last comma before 80, indent by 1 space; or every dependancy on a line, indented by one space
[19:55] <tumbleweed> if you have every line indented by one space except for the first one, it doesn't read well
[19:55] <bdrung> that's right
[19:56] <bdrung> tumbleweed: is it ok to start with a newline?
[19:56] <tumbleweed> 2: if you have a trailling comma, sorted() will give a null item at the beginning of the list
[19:56] <tumbleweed> it seems to be ok, null items also seem to be ok, but I see bugs filed in the BTS about them
[19:57] <bdrung> tumbleweed: that was my idea too, but it failed in the test. you remove only on empty item, but there could be more (example: add ",,,," to the list). i will fix it.
[19:57] <gaurava> ari-tczew: thanks, will look into it .. :)
[19:57] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: rather "sudo pbuilder-dist natty create" :)
[19:57] <tumbleweed> good point, (although  unlikely)
[19:59] <bdrung> tumbleweed: wrap-and-sort is all about making it look nice (even if this case is rare)
[20:00] <tumbleweed> agreed
[20:02] <bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed
[20:03] <bdrung> tumbleweed: nice side-effect: all other duplicates will be removed (i remember that we had "python" in b-depends twice)
[20:03] <tumbleweed> cool
[20:07] <bdrung> tumbleweed: bug #681114 if you seek work
[20:08] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: wrote from my mind
[20:08]  * tumbleweed opens a tab
[20:23] <bdrung> tumbleweed: another idea: bug #681119
[20:25] <micahg> bdrung: that might be problematic, doesn't dh_link throw the symlink by default in the first binary listed?
[20:27] <bdrung> micahg: that's why i want a special option for that (maybe we need an option to exclude the first binary)
[20:27] <micahg> bdrung: k :)
[20:27] <bdrung> micahg: it won't do it by default :)
[20:28] <bdrung> tumbleweed: the error message is weird: "expecting" the wrong directory?
[20:29] <micahg> bdrung: what do you think about switches on pbuilder to enable various ubuntu pockets?  (proposed, updates, security, backports)
[20:30] <bdrung> micahg: would be nice (and sections: main, main + universe, ...)
[20:30] <micahg> bdrung: k, it's something I run into in stable releases is getting the pockets enabled in pbuilder
[20:33] <tumbleweed> micahg: I get around that with a D-series hook, but yes that would be a good pubuilder-dist addition
[20:34] <micahg> tumbleweed: I have one to update the cache, but not to enable the pockets, I guess I could try that
[20:34] <tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah I was hesitant about that - "expecting to find"...
[20:34] <micahg> tumbleweed: another thing I want to add is libeatmydata support
[20:35] <bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, that's better
[20:35] <bdrung> tumbleweed: you failed with pep-8 :)
[20:36] <tumbleweed> micahg: yes I've been meaning to play with that
[20:36] <bdrung> wrong indention...
[20:36] <tumbleweed> I saw your fix there yes
[20:36] <tumbleweed> you were doing alignment with tabs :P
[20:37] <bdrung> tumbleweed: yes, that differs from how you indent with spaces
[20:39] <highvoltage> ~/win 12
[20:42] <tumbleweed> micahg: if you are doing to do any pbuilder-dist hacking, please look at the branch I just posted, it needs testing and is probably buggy. I'll test and push into trunk when I get back into civilisation next week
[20:43] <micahg> tumbleweed: I will probably be doing some, just not this weekend
[20:45] <tumbleweed> cool. I can go back into hiding then :) (10s rtt on GPRS doesn't make for comfortable IRC with a remote irssi)
[20:53] <bdrung> tumbleweed: another idea: bug #681131
[20:54] <geser> bdrung: re bug
[20:54] <bdrung> geser: yes?
[20:54] <geser> bdrung: re bug 681114: what's wrong with it?
[20:55] <geser> I don't see the problem from the description
[20:56] <bdrung> geser: fixed the description. it's the version, not the package name.
[20:56] <ajmitch> bdrung: still, how is it a problem?
[20:57] <bdrung> ajmitch: i looks ugly to have "qemu-kvm_0.13.0+noroms-0ubuntu7.diff.gz", but "qemu-kvm_0.13.0%2Bnoroms-0ubuntu7.dsc"
[20:57] <ajmitch> is it that the + is still a %2B on disk?
[20:57] <bdrung> ajmitch: yes
[20:58] <ajmitch> so the problem is the +, not a -
[20:59] <bdrung> yes
[20:59] <ajmitch> maybe LP was just being slow at showing me the updated description
[20:59] <bdrung> (my handwritten note was wrong. this lead to a wrong bug description)
[21:02] <geser> is it really a pull-lp-source problem and not from dget?
[21:04] <bdrung> geser: dget has the same issue.
[21:05] <geser> bdrung: pull-lp-source gets the dsc url from LP and calls dget with it
[21:05] <ulysses> I have a debian/rules, is it ok? http://paste.ubuntu.com/536047/
[21:06] <geser> bdrung: I'm not sure if decoding encoded chars before passing them to dget is correct
[21:06] <bdrung> geser: the bug needs probably reassign to dget
[21:07] <bdrung> ulysses: looks fine. you may use "override_dh_auto_clean" instead of "override_dh_clean"
[21:07] <bdrung> ulysses: or better: patch the build system to clean up correctly
[21:07] <bdrung> (and forward the patch upstream)
[21:08] <ulysses> bdrung: thanks
[21:43] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
[21:54] <abirvalg> hi guys, Im trying to package a certain prog which needs to run as a daemon on system startup, I have no experience with bash scripting, so I was looking for some info in MOTU section on how to write post-installation scripts. Is there a good guide?
[21:55] <micahcowan> A good way to go is to look at existing daemon source packages, and see what they do.
[21:56] <micahcowan> For Ubuntu, as opposed to Debian, you'd want to look up documentation on "upstart"
[21:57] <SpamapS> can MOTU's accept bugs for SRU?
[21:57] <SpamapS> bug 370994 needs to be SRU'd to at least Lucid
[21:57] <micahcowan> Which isn't really so bash-intensive after all. Uses .conf files that get installed into /etc/init
[21:57] <micahg> SpamapS: they can open a task, not accept into archive
[21:57] <SpamapS> micahg: right, opening a task is what I want. :)
[21:57] <abirvalg> cheers, so upstart is the way to go then
[21:58] <SpamapS> abirvalg: upstart.ubuntu.com
[21:59] <ari-tczew> SpamapS, micahg: we can upload (sponsor) debdiff to *-proposed, then wait for pitti's accept
[21:59] <SpamapS> abirvalg: expect that to go through some overhauls/changes in the next few months.. but the getting started page should be helpful now.. 'writing jobs'
[21:59] <bdrung> ari-tczew: unless the package is in main...
[21:59] <micahg> ari-tczew: right, he just wanted the task accepted
[21:59] <zul> SpamapS: done and done
[21:59] <SpamapS> ari-tczew: right, but its generally customary to wait until its actually been accepted for the release before doing that
[22:00] <ari-tczew> bdrung: easy, we discuss about drupal which is in universe
[22:00] <SpamapS> zul: sweet thanks!
[22:00] <micahg> SpamapS: no, not anymore
[22:00] <ari-tczew> and now it's better than waiting for an ACK by sru team. jdong has less to do :)
[22:00] <micahg> SpamapS: I can create the task, that just looks a little more intrusive than normal for an SRU though
[22:02] <SpamapS> micahg: its really tiny
[22:02] <SpamapS> micahg: just pops a screen up on install suggesting that a user should RTFM and where to go to see the defualt site.
[22:02] <micahg> adding a debconf option to a package that doesn't have it?
[22:03] <SpamapS> it does not need to be preseeded though
[22:03] <SpamapS> there's no "question" .. just a message
[22:06] <micahg> SpamapS: zul took care of it
[22:06] <micahg> SpamapS: the tasks at least
[22:10] <SpamapS> hrm
[22:10] <SpamapS> micahg: I can see where the preseed is not perfect. If there's no answer provided for the note, it will still pop up
[22:10] <SpamapS> even if the only answer is just to ack the question by adding drupal6/post_install_guidance note
[22:16] <micahg> SpamapS: it might be because of my lack of familiarity with debconf, but I see that as an intrusive package change, jusy MHO
[22:16] <micahg> *just
[22:18] <SpamapS> micahg: I think its only intrusive if its a critical priority question, and if debian installer will stop the install and show it if its not mentioned in a preseed
[22:18] <SpamapS> I don't know if either of those are true.
[22:49] <tonymoyoy> Hi, I made a package for ubuntu (for learning purposes), when I open the .deb with Ubuntu Software Center it says License: Unknown, how can I correct this?
[22:50] <micahcowan> That information is managed by the debian/copyright file in your source package, I believe.
[22:53] <tonymoyoy> micahcowan i put the license there but maybe a miss something
[22:54] <micahcowan> Not entirely sure how Ubuntu Software Center gets it from the binary package, though... I don't think it's normally present in the package headers, or anything usually found in the binary package's DEBIAN/ folder... perhaps it actually unpacks /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright to see?
[22:56] <SpamapS> tonymoyoy: I believe that is actually displayed, right now, based on the repository that it comes from, so the copyright file isn't helpful at this point. see bug 435183 for more info
[22:58] <tonymoyoy> SpamapS ubottu [reading], thanks
[23:00] <SpamapS> micahcowan: FYI, the license is chosen based on main/universe/multiverse/etc.
[23:01] <SpamapS> looks like bug 462461 is also on the right track by adding a License: field to the apt listings.
[23:02] <micahcowan> SpamapS, so in other words, the License will either be "free" or "non-free", something along those lines, nothing more granular?
[23:08] <SpamapS> micahcowan: free, unknown, or proprietary
[23:08] <SpamapS> micahcowan: should be easy enough to resolve this with DEP5 + a bit of apt magic
[23:51] <ScottK> SpamapS: One can determine license free/non-free from main/universe or restricted/multiverse.  No DEP5 needed.


[15:02] <mhall119> tsdgeos: how are you not an Ubuntu member yet?
[15:13] <tsdgeos> mhall119: because it means you need to do nice things :D
[15:13] <tsdgeos> tbh i've done *nothing* for ubuntu
[15:14] <tsdgeos> outside by dayjob
[15:14] <tsdgeos> doesn't feel appropiate
[15:14] <tsdgeos> to be an ubuntu member
[15:15] <tsdgeos> basically i read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership a few times and i didn't think i qualified
[15:23] <mhall119> tsdgeos: are you a part of BCNFS in Barcelona?
[15:24] <tsdgeos> i am
[15:24] <tsdgeos> https://github.com/bcnfs <- me me
[15:24] <mhall119> I'm looking for an Ubuntu Member who might request community donations money to help sponsor it
[15:28] <tsdgeos> i see
[15:28] <tsdgeos> i'll re-read those memebrship pages again
[15:54] <mhall119> tsdgeos: involvement in your loco team and upstream projects are considered as well


 You're absolutely allowed.
[13:28] <wolfger> Let us know how that goes. :-)
[13:36] <_stink_> hah, ours did the same thing
[13:42] <ColonelPanic001> My cat does that.
[13:42]  * ColonelPanic001 contributes
[13:43] <rick_h_> nice, in the car?
[13:43] <ColonelPanic001> in the cat carrier in the car, yeah
[13:43] <rick_h_> maybe I should crate the baby
[13:43] <ColonelPanic001> exactly
[13:49] <wolfger> ++
[13:51] <snap-l> Better learn him while they're young
[13:56] <rick_h_> help, I think I'm about to order another keyboard
[13:58] <wolfger> I don't think there's any helping that.
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> give me some old ones
[13:59] <rick_h_> hmmm, so "NO STOCK
[13:59] <rick_h_> ** Pre-Order **
[13:59] <rick_h_> Ships End of March:
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> that will help clear up some space
[13:59] <rick_h_> heh, I've got a few I could sell off :P
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> _stink_: pay the man
[14:02] <_stink_> hay
[14:02] <rick_h_> time to find out how great these cherry mx switches are
[14:02] <rick_h_> vs the model M springs
[14:02] <rick_h_> wish I could try these topre ones without blowing $300 ugh
[14:03] <ColonelPanic001> I should bring in my keyboard from home. I type more here, now, anyway
[14:03] <rick_h_> yea, one nice thing about a lot of nice keyboards is that the work one is a decent clicky model as well
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> I just have the default one they supplied. Plain old dell thing
[14:04]  * rick_h_ shudders
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> nothing *wrong* with it, but it's not my MS Natural at home
[14:05] <rick_h_> I've got 3 naturals, sell you one for $20 :)
[14:05] <rick_h_> one is a dell branded one with usb ports I think as well
[14:05] <rick_h_> nope, dell one is at work I think
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> tempting
[14:06] <rick_h_> the ones I have are ps2 though
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> the horror
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> I don't even know if this desktop has ps2 ports
[14:06] <rick_h_> well, when you work on a laptop, ps2 is a bit harder to deal with, but they make adapers
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> yeah
[14:07] <rick_h_> well, if looking for a spare let me know. the naturals were my fav for a while until I got into the actual switches
[14:07] <ColonelPanic001> sure, thanks
[14:07] <rick_h_> used to have one on laptop, desktop, and work
[14:23] <rick_h_> reminder time all, CHC tonight, early edition 7pm
[14:23] <rick_h_> snap-l: Blazeix widox waldo323 _stink_ ^
[14:25] <snap-l> tx, on my radar
[14:26] <tjagoda> So
[14:26] <tjagoda> Just saved $13,896 per year on cell phone costs
[14:26] <tjagoda> I am the best IT guy evar
[14:26] <rick_h_> heh
[14:26] <tjagoda> it gets better
[14:26] <tjagoda> That's only 2 cell phones
[14:27] <snap-l> blackberry makes a smart can-string phone?
[14:27] <tjagoda> shush your trolling
[14:27] <rick_h_> snap-l: they were going to, but R&D was a bit rich for their blood
[14:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: totally
[14:27] <snap-l> tjagoda: Hey, they can have 2 CEOs and 3 COOs, so anything is possible
[14:28] <rick_h_> ooh, new tagline? "We've got more bosses your you have!"
[14:28] <rick_h_> Powar!
[14:28] <tjagoda> http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/089/d/4/thats_Hitlerious_by_Anonymous206324351.jpg
[14:29] <rick_h_> we thought so :P
[14:31] <tjagoda> " IDC predicts 2015 will bring: Android 45.4%, WP7 & WinMobile 20.9%, iOS 15.3%, RIM 13.7%, Symbian 0.2%, and 'Others' 4.6%."
[14:31] <tjagoda> WinMo > iPhone?
[14:31] <tjagoda> seriously?
[14:32] <ColonelPanic001> lolz iphone
[14:32] <tjagoda> And look at RIM
[14:32] <tjagoda> still holding on by their teeth
[14:32] <ColonelPanic001> I do know that here at WSU, they're projecting Android hits overtaking iPhone anytime now. Might already have happened, haven't seen/heard stats lately
[14:33] <tjagoda> CRAZY SAUCE
[14:33] <tjagoda> WHY WOULD PEOPLE NOT WANT GLOWING FRUIT
[14:33] <rick_h_> US wide android is #1 in ad and in sales
[14:33] <ColonelPanic001> so much nicer to work with, too
[14:33] <rick_h_> because life is good if you have your iBalls connected to your iSack and you stream your iSphincter, 'it just works'
[14:34] <ColonelPanic001> iphone is a pain in the ass
[14:34] <ColonelPanic001> comparitively
[14:34] <tjagoda> RIM makes developers get notarized to prove identity =(
[14:35] <tjagoda> They're supposedly doing away with that as part of their barrier-reducing program though
[14:35] <greg-g> rick_h_: wow, were you channeling snap-l there?
[14:35] <greg-g> tjagoda: are you serious?
[14:35] <tjagoda> mhm
[14:36] <tjagoda> 's why AppWorld is so comparatively small
[14:36] <tjagoda> The profit margins in it are superior to all other mobile markets
[14:36] <rick_h_> sure, nothijng to do with the awful dev tools :P
[14:36] <tjagoda> but the barrier to developer entry with all the hoops is huge
[14:36] <rick_h_> declining user base, oh and that it's big in corporate which is more likely to lock the app purchases than others
[14:37] <tjagoda> Actually
[14:37] <tjagoda> when you're done asshatting
[14:37] <tjagoda> you'll see the numbers give developers great margins in AppWorld
[14:37] <tjagoda> and that they're by far the most profitable software sales

[14:37] <rick_h_> margins * sales == $$, margins != $$
[14:38] <rick_h_> so when you want to learn math correctly, we can continue :)
[14:38] <rick_h_> and dev time == part of costs which also come into play
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> I was told there would be no math
[14:38] <rick_h_> which is why BB is usually the 3rd player for most big apps out there, not first
[14:39] <tjagoda> I refuse to argue with Android zealots whom openly admit their zealotry! =P
[14:39] <rick_h_> never said the "A" word in any of this
[14:40] <snap-l> I think Symbian would get an app sooner than BB
[14:40] <tjagoda> Woah
[14:40] <tjagoda> IBM is 100?
[14:40] <tjagoda> What did they do before computers?
[14:41] <rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computing_Tabulating_Recording_Corporation
[14:41] <snap-l> typewriters, calculators
[14:42] <tjagoda> +1 for snap-l for answering without making me read wikipedia
[14:44] <snap-l> tjagoda: You're just cranky that you can't marry your Blackberry at the mass ceremony at Penguicon
[14:44] <snap-l> Coup Fourre
[14:44] <tjagoda> Harr harr harr =P
[14:45] <rick_h_> because they're already married? :P
[14:54] <wolfger> Wow. I haven't heard "coup fourre" in years, and never outside of a game of Mille Bournes
[14:55] <snap-l> ;)
[14:57] <rick_h_> http://blog.nacode.com/2011/03/03/php-built-in-web-server/ missed this
[14:57] <rick_h_> so now all the poorly written apps won't even be put on real web servers any more
[14:57] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[14:58] <rick_h_> love that the wiki is down for maint now as well
[15:21] <snap-l> Please tell me this web server is written in PHP
[15:22] <snap-l> that would be so awesome
[15:23] <rick_h_> based on the linked gist seems to be c: https://gist.github.com/835698
[15:30] <ColonelPanic001> listening to the lococast about the music store stuff
[15:31] <rick_h_> heh, that goes on for a few of those
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[15:33] <ColonelPanic001> snap-l: re: your twitter post - o'reilly sale?
[15:34] <snap-l> Long story
[15:34] <ColonelPanic001> heh, k
[15:34] <snap-l> Made a comment to JoDee about Groupon catering to women who didn't think before they purchased
[15:34] <snap-l> and got called out on the internet. :)
[15:35] <snap-l> JoDee is not like that, but still took offense
[15:35] <snap-l> "They have $40 of Bath and Bodyworks stuff for $10, but I already have enough soaps and such"
[15:36] <ColonelPanic001> I haven't read anything technical in a long time, need to pick up something from O'reilly or something
[15:40] <ColonelPanic001> "Beautiful Data" is ~$18 for the ebook, but I'm not quite ready for ebooks yet.
[15:40] <rick_h_> yea, and that book is only 1/3 good
[15:41] <ColonelPanic001> ah, you've read it? It sounded interesting, maybe. Worth reading?
[15:42] <rick_h_> there's a few good chapters, but the rest was meh
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> noted. Thanks for mentioning it
[15:42] <rick_h_> it's in that style of each chapter is a different person/story
[16:06] <jrwren> anyone know of any program that will weave two log files and order them by date?
[16:07] <jrwren> e.g. my apahce access log and my python application log so I can see them interleaved by date.
[16:08] <ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
[16:08] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea sec, I just was working on that the other day
[16:08] <rick_h_> it's in the awstats package I think
[16:08] <brousch> i did something like that with a python script
[16:09] <rick_h_> logresolvemerge.pl is in the awstats stuff
[16:09] <rick_h_> jrwren: see: http://wpstorm.net/2011/01/awstats-amazon-s3-cloudfront/
[16:10] <jrwren> ty
[16:10] <rick_h_> not finished setting it up yet, but that's where I'm headed
[16:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: is the man.
[16:11] <rick_h_> jrwren: what logs are you pulling?
[16:11] <rick_h_> ah, nvm, I see it, apache and app
[16:11] <rick_h_> the app log is apache format?
[16:11] <jrwren> apache combined access and then some pylons output log
[16:12] <rick_h_> ah, I think that merger will just interleave apache log files together
[16:12] <jrwren> no, the pylons output is really more like a console log
[16:12] <rick_h_> so I suck :(
[16:12] <jrwren> but with interleaved single line web style logs.
[16:12] <jrwren> so if it supports multiline log messages it should be great.
[16:12] <jrwren> if not, we will write something.
[16:13] <jrwren> question about git: can you really not push to a nonbare tree?
[16:13] <jrwren> with HG/BZR I push to nonbare all the time and all is well.
[16:14] <rick_h_> hmm, haven't tried, I think you'd have to pull
[16:14] <jrwren> that is what I experienced.
[16:14] <jrwren> i'm just very surprised.
[16:14] <rick_h_> because if there was a conflict you'd push that over to them?
[16:14] <jrwren> make the non-github workflow kind of shitty. you need a "server" somewhere that is bare.
[16:15] <rick_h_> or they could be working on it/etc
[16:15] <rick_h_> yea, we run a gitosis instance for it
[16:15] <rick_h_> pretty slick
[16:15] <jrwren> sure, THEN you can get an error and bzr/hg will give you that error, but if it is safe, it should be possible.
[16:15] <jrwren> but git just fails at this.
[16:15] <rick_h_> but yea, non-server you'd want the other repo to pull your stuff
[16:15] <rick_h_> right, but if they're mid-work/etc it seems strange
[16:15] <jrwren> cool, thanks rick_h_
[16:16] <ColonelPanic001> I hate when I accidently do ctrl+w + h to try and go to a window on the screen to the left.
[16:16] <jrwren> so how does heroku actually work then?
[16:16] <rick_h_> I think it comes down to Hg/bzr doing a diff dir per branch vs the stacked setup in git
[16:16] <jrwren> I always figured when you push to them you were pushing to the deployed tree.
[16:16] <jrwren> heroku must have a bare tree and have triggers that pull form that tree when you push to hte bare?
[16:16] <rick_h_> jrwren: I bet you push to a bare repo and it causes a post-push hook to fire to update the app
[16:17] <rick_h_> we use that to fire jenkins builds and such from the server
[16:17] <jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
[16:25] <snap-l> Just had a little power dip
[16:25] <snap-l> and thankfully my computer is now on a new UPS battery, so it was able to handle it.
[16:26] <rick_h_> awesome
[16:36] <binbrain> http://tinyurl.com/4vytobo interesting part about google culture beginning to discourage open source. why does this always seem to happen. 1) leverage open source 2) get big 3) enterprisy solutions replace open source 4) settle into corporate mediocrity
[16:37] <rick_h_> it's too much work to do OSS
[16:37] <jrwren> but in google's case (3) happened inside out instead of outside in.
[16:38] <brousch> no matter how much you open source the freetards whine its not enough. i assume you evenutally get tired of it
[16:38] <jrwren> i want to make a living writing software.
[16:38] <jrwren> its easier to do that by selling it v. supporting it.
[16:38] <brousch> you can't live on donated beer?
[16:39] <jrwren> I think part of the problem is the abusers and consumers of open source.
[16:39] <jrwren> those jerks who want to take stuff don't give back to upstream.
[16:40] <rick_h_> well, it's always a scale
[16:40] <jrwren> opensource v. opencore too.
[16:40] <rick_h_> there's 100x more 'uses' than 'contrib' people
[16:40] <jrwren> opennms founders have written about it a lot and very good opinions on the matter.
[16:41] <binbrain> jrwren: I have no problem with "jerks that take stuff and don't give back upstream". The more places the source makes it to the better
[16:42] <jrwren> why?
[16:42] <jrwren> why is more places better?
[16:43] <binbrain> so I realize that sometimes open source doesn't make sense for your business model, but abandoning open source which was a big part of helped make you successful, in favor of "robust" enterprise solutions seems to always be the bad move in my experience
[16:45] <wolfger> jrwren: what ColonelPanic001 said. :-)
[16:45] <wolfger> and what brousch said too.
[16:46] <binbrain> jrwren: why more places, because even if they don't contribute directly, they do indirectly, even if by accident, whether it be the extra mind share familiar with the source that decides to make a contrib 5 years later, or tells someone about this cool project, the more places the better
[16:48] <jrwren> wolfger: i don't see anything that ColonelPanic001 said in this conversation
[16:49] <jrwren> binbrain: i guess I just disagree with the more places the better.  e.g. my mom and dad are never going to contribute to chrome or firefox.
[16:49] <binbrain> huh, my Dad did
[16:50] <jrwren> amazing.
[16:50] <rick_h_> wow, boss just had me help get a quad extra large EC2 windows instance app up for something we're running that needs more than 64gb of ram :/
[16:50] <wolfger> jrwren: [11:08] <ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
[16:50] <snap-l> I think part of the problem is when you let the MBAs into a company
[16:50] <snap-l> MBAs don't understand OSS
[16:50] <rick_h_> 8 core 68gb machine wow
[16:50] <wolfger> possibly you were completely done with that conversation. I was in scrollback
[16:50] <jrwren> MBAs don't understand much of anything.
[16:51] <jrwren> if we are going to generalize :)
[16:51] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm being charitable here
[16:51] <snap-l> I don't want an engineer doing my books
[16:51] <binbrain> jrwren: I don't mean directly obviously, but indirectly, when he calls for support, they tech has to know firefox now, which is more exposure, even if its a small little thing
[16:51] <snap-l> and I don't want an MBA doing my server room
[16:51] <jrwren> i don't want a server room, period.
[16:52] <snap-l> also, I'm reading this "Discourage of OSS" as dogfooding
[16:52] <binbrain> snap-l: ding ding ding, I blame the MBAs as well
[16:52] <snap-l> since they are google products, right?
[16:53] <rick_h_> it's the eternal debate, get devs on a common system to provide consistancy, reuse
[16:53] <rick_h_> or let people do best tool for the job
[16:53] <snap-l> jrwren: Everyone wants a server room
[16:54] <snap-l> they just want someone else to manage it
[16:54] <snap-l> my dear departed grandma wanted a server room, even though she didn't know anything about computers. :)
[16:55] <binbrain> anyhow, point not about oss vs proprietary, but about abandoning oss that made you successful in favor of closed enterprisy solutions, and snap-l nailed it, its those damn MBAs
[16:55] <rick_h_> well, it's not like hadoop was out there pre-google
[16:55] <rick_h_> I mean, it used google's freaking paper to come into the world
[16:55] <rick_h_> so it's not 100% fair, and open sourcing stuff you use it complicated and time consuming
[17:10] <jrwren> snap-l: I DO NOT WANT A SERVER ROOM!   Somebody else manages it. Exactly what snap-l said.
[17:12] <jrwren> with their centralized AC/DC power conversion and DC servers and fanlesss evaporative cooling that runs at 95% efficiency
[17:12] <wolfger> You want it and you don't even know it.
[17:12] <jrwren> i don't want snap-l's weak ass 10% efficient server room.
[17:12] <wolfger> nobody said you did, that I noticed
[17:12] <jrwren> wolfger: you have a poor understanding of hte english language.
[17:12] <jrwren> i do not want it.
[17:13] <jrwren> i do not want someone else to manage it.
[17:13] <binbrain> jrwren: holy jump to conclusions mat. what does capitalism have to do with it.  I do not want it to be my server room.
[17:14] <jrwren> if someone wants a server room, they want to posess it.
[17:14] <jrwren> i don't want to posess a server room whether I manage it or not.      It's like a complicated framework to tell people common sense things like you should have a help desk and the help desk should be customer focused not IT focused... etc..
[17:23] <binbrain> jrwren: of course there are good MBAs, I think one diff might be that MBAs often get hired specifically to muck with process, where as devs are less likely to
[17:23] <jrwren> less likely to much with business process or dev process or both?
[17:23] <binbrain> well, a dev isn't going to muck with business process, a MBA is typically charged to muck with every process
[17:24] <krondor> without things like ITIL what would the PHBs do if left to their own devices?  At least a framework lets them manage something and let the geeks go to work again.
[17:25] <jrwren> the more i dwell on it the more i am disgusted by the blame on MBAs when there is no evidence.
[17:25] <jrwren> poor bastards are just your punching bags.
[17:26] <binbrain> what would suffice as evidence besides experience and sentiment often shared amongst devs?
[17:27] <jrwren> evidence.
[17:27] <jrwren> sentiment is not evidence.
[17:27] <jrwren> point to a person and say 'this person decided this'
[17:27] <jrwren> corporations are surprisingly transparent. I'll bet you could find hte person in google who made the decision
[17:28] <binbrain> I'm sure that could be done in a some cases, and in others not, its not black and white
[17:28] <jrwren> blaming people without evidence is pretty black and white.
[17:30] <binbrain> I don't know if I blame the people here, I blamed "MBA" which is a degree had by people
[17:30] <binbrain> a subtle difference
[17:31] <jrwren> you blame the existence of a degree program for companies not continuing to embrace open source?
[17:32] <binbrain> this isn't an open source debate, its about abandoning open source that is apart of what made you successful just because its not enterprisy
[17:33] <binbrain> "existence" of the program? I don't think I said that either
[17:34] <binbrain> let's take out "open source'" from the talking point and lets just make it "abandoning what made you successful because it wasn't enterprisy"
[17:38] <binbrain> I'd say its less about the "existence" of the program, and more about what often seems to be the content of the program, you could certainly argue, and did, that the content of a CS program is mucked up in any cases as well
[17:38] <binbrain> a/any/many
[17:39] <jrwren> you've lost me.
[17:39] <jrwren> :)
[17:39] <jrwren> anytime you quit doing something that makes you successful its pretty stupid.
[17:41]  * wolfger leaps in to Godwin the conversation....
[17:41] <wolfger> Hitler was successful, but he definitely should have changed what he was doing. :-p
[17:42] <wolfger> but generally speaking, yes.
[17:49] <jrwren> hitler WAS successful... and then he wasn't, right?
[17:50] <jrwren> he should have changed what he was doing when he stopped succeeding.
[17:50] <jrwren> but he didn't, at least not soon enough, and then he killed himself.
[17:50] <wolfger> No. He should have changed what he was doing before then.
[17:50] <jrwren> i don't expect sergie and brin to kill themselves.
[17:50] <jrwren> should he?
[17:50] <jrwren> he united a fractured germany
[17:50] <wolfger> Change before you become unsuccessful, to remain successful.
[17:51] <jrwren> right.
[17:51] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/03/30/netflix-studios-and-the-primrose-path-to-apathy/
[17:51] <snap-l> Um, he blamed the Jews for all of the problems that the Germans had
[17:52] <wolfger> the point is, the key to continued success is knowing when to change.
[17:53] <binbrain> when in actuality, he should of blamed the MBAs ;) j/k
[17:53] <wolfger> binbrain ftw \o/
[17:54] <jrwren> *sigh* :)
[17:54] <snap-l> All I have to say is we've hit Hitler twice tday
[17:54] <snap-l> I think that's an achievement.
[17:55] <rick_h_> geeze, you guys have been busy
[17:55] <snap-l> http://skunkiebutt.com/pix/Motivational%20Posters/hitler%20achievement.jpg
[17:56] <wolfger> snap-l: good post!
[17:56] <snap-l> wolfger: Thank you. :)
[18:10] <jrwren> I'm not sure why google is getting grief from this anyway. they have always been a fair weather OSS company. Much of what they do has never been open source.
[18:11] <rick_h_> jrwren: they win over the free as in beer folks a lot
[18:12] <rick_h_> plus they do at least try to force some standards/etc
[18:12] <jrwren> right.
[18:12] <jrwren> yes, some.
[18:12] <jrwren> and others they just own :)
[18:12] <jrwren> but I'm a MSFT friendly person, so I can't knock google for that.
[18:12] <binbrain> summer of code
[18:12] <binbrain> etc...
[18:12] <jrwren> I just think a lot of OSS people have a misperception of google
[18:12] <rick_h_> yea, they have some wins, but they do more credit than they deserve just on the 'free' part I think
[18:13] <jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
[18:13] <jrwren> :)
[18:13] <rick_h_> and let's face it, of all the companies out there, they've built a rep as the hacker/dev super genius types
[18:13] <rick_h_> which more of us relate/aspire to
[18:14] <binbrain> the article I posted the dude was saying that recently open source usage internally was being discouraged just because it was open source
[18:15] <rick_h_> well, that article read more like "OSS is discouraged because it's not Google-way, Google's approved list of super scalable tools"
[18:15] <rick_h_> "hadoop, mongo isn't google scale, so don't bother starting there, go read up on bigtable"
[18:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's what I read as well
[18:15] <snap-l> Not that it was discouraged, just that Google had tools that they deemed superior
[18:16] <jrwren> which makes sense.
[18:17] <jrwren> google has huge proprietary infrastructure already built.
[18:17] <jrwren> why would you build on hadoop or mongo?
[18:18] <snap-l> Well, I think the poster's problem was that these were summarily discounted, even before they were considered
[18:18] <rick_h_> because it's a lower barrier to entry, more friendly to quick testing/innovating, and more easily put in the hands of users since anyone can fire up a mongo db with 5 shards on EC2 in minutes vs provisioning google services over the course of days/weeks/justification checks
[18:18] <snap-l> I could see someone saying that they needed rabbitmq for something, and make a case for it, rather than have someone else say "no rabbitmq, nohow no-way"
[18:18] <jrwren> google has ALWAYS sucked that way.
[18:19] <jrwren> if you work at google you can write in ONLY C/C++, Python, Java and javascript.
[18:19] <rick_h_> right, but the google way is a barrier to entry for new ideas in a fast paced tech circle
[18:19] <snap-l> It's like places that say "we will not deploy using [language] because someone had a bad experience with it at some point"
[18:19] <jrwren> want to use LISP or Ruby for something... too bad.
[18:19] <rick_h_> thus the brain drain to faster moving start ups
[18:19] <jrwren> have a place couchdb would work... too bad, that lang not allowed.
[18:19] <snap-l> Though I say that PHP should be actively discouraged. ;)
[18:19] <snap-l> and Java outright abolished. ;)
[18:20] <jrwren> google doesn't use PHP, period.
[18:20] <jrwren> um... java?
[18:20] <jrwren> google loves java.
[18:20] <snap-l> jrwren: No, I mean in general
[18:20] <jrwren> google is the biggest user of java in teh world.
[18:20] <snap-l> I think Sun might take with that assessment. ;)
[18:20] <snap-l> or IBM
[18:20] <jrwren> i don't.
[18:20] <jrwren> I still don't.
[18:20] <binbrain> I thought memory was the biggest user
[18:20] <jrwren> LOL
[18:21] <binbrain> bah, I'm done, back to work
[18:21] <snap-l> Oh, right, Sun was the biggest loser of Java, and IBM was the biggest abuser of Java.
[18:21] <snap-l> my mistake.
[18:21] <snap-l> carry on.
[18:48] <wolfger> Today's free song on Amazon MP3 is by Whitesnake.
[18:48] <wolfger> Are they still around?
[19:01] <snap-l> Yes, yes they are
[19:07] <wolfger> Hmph. They must be hanging out with Rush. ;-)
[19:08] <krondor> so why is everyone freaking out about Amazon Music Sync for Desktop and Android?  Hasn't Ubuntu One Music been doing that already?
[19:10] <wolfger> krondor: define "everyone"
[19:10] <krondor> everyone being news sites and record labels.
[19:10] <wolfger> ah, then the answer is simple
[19:10] <wolfger> Everyone knows all about Amazon, and nothing at all about Ubuntu One Music
[19:11] <krondor> I suppose, but even Dropbox has let you do that on Android and Desktop already (though I guess it isn't music specific).  I guess I don't see how it's different then what's already been done.  Maybe it's the free 5 GB and cheap yearly (20 a year for 20 GB?).
[19:13] <wolfger> I think it's more "iTunes and Google have been trying to reach licensing agreements with the labels, and Amazon said 'we don't need no stinking licenses'"
[19:13] <rick_h_> price, performance, multi-os (desktop at least), with web, and big name
[19:13] <wolfger> at least, those are the stories I'm reading today.
[19:14] <krondor> yeah but how has dropbox asked for licensing agreements?  I guess they're not really advertising; "This storage is for music".  Amazon is cheap though.  There's a promo too for free 20 GB / year with purchase of an album.  There's albums for 5 bucks.
[19:15] <rick_h_> amazon is letting you hit 'buy' and putting your files right over to your locker, and not counting it against your locker caps
[19:15] <rick_h_> dropbox isn't selling the music
[19:15] <krondor> rick_h_:  good point
[19:15] <rick_h_> and do they have a player, with playlist support, mobile streaming, etc?
[19:16] <krondor> ubuntu one music yes, dropbox no.
[19:17] <rick_h_> right, so forget the dropbox comparison then, and we can stick with "U1 has been doing this"
[19:17] <rick_h_> but only for ubuntu users, using rhythmbox, etc
[19:17] <krondor> I guess it is all about being known, Ubuntu wasn't known enough to cause the stir?  Or they didn't have a free mobile plan so no hype?  Maybe they dodged a lawsuit best case I suppose...
[19:17] <rick_h_> and priced a bit more for the mobile aspect/etc
[19:17] <rick_h_> well, also depends on the deals that 7digital has/etc
[19:18] <rick_h_> but yea, I think we've all seen the little guys get away with it, until they get too much attentino
[19:18] <krondor> napster being the best example maybe
[19:19] <wolfger> U1 Music is Aunt Mildred to Amazon's Paris Hilton
[19:20] <wolfger> whatever your Aunt Mildred does, it will not make the news, but if Paris Hilton does the same thing: BAM! Instant headline.
[19:21] <brousch> ubuntu is like 1% of desktop computers, and a fraction of them use U1. amazon is everywhere
[19:25] <krondor> you don't have to have Ubuntu to use Ubuntu Music of course
[19:25] <krondor> but still mindshare, pricing, etc.. point to amazon
[19:26] <snap-l> Honestly, I don't see the big probem
[19:27] <snap-l> if I upload my mp3 collection onto a website, and use a player that only I have access to, then who is harmed?
[19:27] <snap-l> Artist? Nope. Label? Nope.
[19:27] <snap-l> Nobody gets access to the music outside of me
[19:27] <snap-l> If I made a tape of an album to leave in my car, did the artist lose a sale? Nope.
[19:28] <krondor> I'm done trying to figure out why the RIAA hates their customers
[19:28] <snap-l> Just means I don't have to figure out how to get my record player to work in my car.
[19:28] <snap-l> krondor: Because they're having a shit time of it
[19:28] <snap-l> Record sales are down
[19:29] <snap-l> And the biggest reason? Inflation of CD prices
[19:29] <wolfger> snap-l: Pirate!!!!!
[19:29] <snap-l> < $10 is impulse buy territory, >$15 is ask the wife for permission
[19:29] <wolfger> You should buy a tape *and* an album if you want to listen in your car and at home
[19:30] <wolfger> also, you're dating yourself with the entire concept of taping an album :-p
[19:30] <snap-l> wolfger: Right, the buggy whip corporations would like a word with you
[19:30] <snap-l> Also, has anyone wonered why SACD hasn't taken off like gangbusters?
[19:30] <snap-l> hint: it's not the quality that counts
[19:30] <wolfger> wtf is SACD?
[19:30] <snap-l> hint: You can't easily rip a SACD.
[19:31] <snap-l> wolfger: And you've made my point. ;)
[19:31] <krondor> portability > fidelity
[19:31] <snap-l> SACD is 5.1 audio with 96Kbps resolution
[19:31] <snap-l> 24 bit encoding
[19:31] <snap-l> It's akin to DVD-Audio, but includes a CD layer for backward compatibility.
[19:32] <wolfger> ...and the point is?
[19:32] <snap-l> problem is the SACD layer is unreadable with current computer tech
[19:32] <snap-l> at least unreadable without some major hacking
[19:32] <wolfger> triple that question, in that case
[19:32] <krondor> snap-l:  also probably hasn't caught on because Sony was involved in the format :P
[19:32] <wolfger> ha!
[19:32] <snap-l> krondor: Sony was involved witht eh original CD
[19:32] <snap-l> so I don't buy that argument much
[19:33] <wolfger> That's unfair, Krondor
[19:33] <wolfger> Blu-Ray won, after all
[19:33] <snap-l> In my perfect world, they'd just give you a disc with FLAC files on it
[19:33] <snap-l> wolfger: And we see how bluray is just leaping off of the shelves
[19:33] <wolfger> snap-l: but it beat HD-DVD out of the marketplace
[19:33] <snap-l> but the other point I have is that it's cheaper to buy the DVD of a concert than it is to buy the CD of the concert
[19:34] <krondor> snap-l:  but how many recording studios are even recording in good 24 bit and not just 16 bit even (I have no clue maybe they are, honest question)
[19:34] <snap-l> wolfger: That wasn't too harrd.
[19:34] <wolfger> it will catch on, eventually
[19:34] <snap-l> krondor: It's more prevalent than you might think
[19:34] <snap-l> all studios are using 48KHz, 96Kbps, 24 bit recordings
[19:34] <snap-l> they have to mix down to CD format
[19:34] <jrwren> because amazon is far more big than ubuntu.
[19:35] <wolfger> <insert snarky comment about jrwren's coming to he conversation late here>
[19:35] <snap-l> Lets just say that this is a fight that I'm confident Amazon will win
[19:35] <jrwren> wolfger: you didn't hear about my Aunt Mildred's sex tape?
[19:36] <snap-l> and if they don't, the RIAA can chew a bucket of cocks
[19:36] <snap-l> jrwren actually reads backlog.
[19:36] <snap-l> I'm impressed
[19:36] <snap-l> which means that in 10 minutes, he'll make a snarky comment to me. ;)
[19:37] <wolfger> Woooo. I just "qualified" for a free subscription to eWeek magazine. <mark-as-spam>
[19:37] <snap-l> Information Week here
[19:37] <snap-l> I swear, they could just chain together the blatherings of babies, and still call it eWeek
[19:38] <wolfger> they don't?
[19:38] <snap-l> I think they still have freelancers
[19:38] <snap-l> but I think the freelancers employ their kids to bang on the keyboard.
[19:38] <krondor> parody site idea; eWeak.com  One domain camper away from reality.
[19:38] <wolfger> LOL
[19:39] <wolfger> check it. It might already exist.
[19:39] <snap-l> "something something cloud something google something"
[19:39] <krondor> it does w/ a domain camper, expire dec 27. 2011
[19:39] <greg-g> man, chatty cathys today
[19:39] <jrwren> the problem with being an addict is that i can't tell if hte headache is from overdosing or withdrawl
[19:39] <greg-g> jrwren++ I hate that uncertainty!
[19:40] <wolfger> jrwren: You need tiger blood.
[19:42] <wolfger> Wow. That killed the conversation.
[19:42] <snap-l> heh
[19:43] <wolfger> Is Charlie Sheen the new Hitler? We've discussed Hitler multiple times today without killing the convo.
[19:43] <wolfger> Quick! Amend Godwin's law.
[19:48] <snap-l> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Virtualization/Virtual-Desktop-Infrastructure-Takes-Off-10-of-the-Hottest-Players-772016/?kc=EWKMRS03282011CA
[19:48] <snap-l> Seriously, just put a bullet in eWeek
[19:50] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAyUNI3_V2c
[19:50] <rick_h_> google at it again
[19:51] <snap-l> fuckin' hell
[19:52] <rick_h_> no, dare you to block google at the firewall like facebook :P
[19:52] <snap-l> I can see this getting totally abused
[19:52] <snap-l> *sigh*
[19:54] <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/68632077
[19:57]  * krondor Krondor +1'd This!
[20:06] <greg-g> wow, +1
[20:34] <greg-g> (that was meant to be in reference to +1, not actually a +1 of +1, heh)
[20:34] <greg-g> I sure effing hope that was their test object to +1, the +1
[20:35] <greg-g> I mean, if I were on the team, that'd be my only requirement
[20:35] <brousch> greg-g: how's the rsvps for global jam looking? i have me and one other so far
[20:36] <greg-g> brousch: in your car? cool!
[20:36] <greg-g> looks like 11 confirmed with 8 maybes, awesome
[20:37] <greg-g> there will be extras i'm sure, so that's a good turn out!
[20:37]  * greg-g is excited!
[20:37] <brousch> ok, i'm going to pick up a few good beers tonight
[20:38] <greg-g> yay, good beer!
[20:46] <greg-g> whoa, alienseer was here?
[20:46] <greg-g> never seen him here anymore
[21:13] <n0p> never see me anymore either, phew
[21:14] <greg-g> n0p: there you are!
[21:14] <greg-g> come to the UGJ at SRT on Sunday!
[21:15] <n0p> hmm, will be downtown with the kids for festivfools
[21:15] <n0p> what time is the UGJ
[21:15] <greg-g> 3pm-??
[21:16] <greg-g> erm, I'm sorry, 12pm - ???
[21:16] <greg-g> and at the ??? time we'll be going out for drinks, most likely
[21:17] <n0p> cool, well, as mentioned, family time, but perhaps i can at least come by and say hey
[21:18] <greg-g> yeah, definitely. Enjoy festifools craziness.
[21:18] <n0p> oh, and ice skating at yost from noon-2 with kids, sheesh, busy schedule
[21:26] <snap-l> hey n0p, long time no see
[21:27] <n0p> yeah, i gotta make a CHC someday again
[21:30] <n0p> been pretty busy still, but feels like i'm getting on track
[21:32] <n0p> snap-l: are you BronxZoosCobra ;-)
[21:50] <snap-l> ?
[21:54] <n0p> oh, you havent heard the snake story?
[21:54] <n0p> some cobra is missing from the Bronx zoo
[21:55] <n0p> someone created a twitter account and has been tweeting, it's pretty funny
[21:55] <snap-l> heh
[21:55] <n0p> made me think of you actually
[21:55] <n0p> http://twitter.com/BronxZoosCobra
[21:57] <snap-l> Not sure whether to be flattered or what. ;)
[21:58] <n0p> well, not the snake aspect, just the wit ;-)
[22:02] <greg-g> wait! Is that why White Snake was the free Amazon mp3 for today?
[22:02] <n0p> haha, perhaps
[22:02]  * greg-g puts various parts of IRC log in his head and creates connections where there shouldn't be
[22:05] <snap-l> brb, power out
[22:51] <snap-l> back
[22:51] <snap-l> Hopefully this will take care of the power outages overnight
[22:51] <snap-l> If not, out come the big guns. :)
[23:00] <binbrain> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:NoJavaScript
[23:00] <binbrain> lol
[23:01] <binbrain> I'm not a fan of js, but these guys are nuts
[23:05] <Blazeix> hm, that @source isn't a bad idea though
[23:17] <binbrain> opps, need to update a small innocent looking latex package, 1G and 125 new deps later...
[23:39] <_stink_> hah
[23:39] <_stink_> latex is great for that.
[23:40] <greg-g> binbrain: well, its mattl, who is a tad crazy
[23:40] <greg-g> re: NoJavaScript
[23:44] <wolfger> Yo, snap-l. Awesome instrumentalcast. Finally getting around to listening to it.
[23:44] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[23:45] <snap-l> I'm uploading another episode, an industrial episode.
[23:45] <snap-l> Should be out Friday.
[23:46] <rick_h_> binbrain: heh, oh well, don't like my app don't use it
[23:46] <binbrain> greg-g: what's a tad crazy exactly :) it's not horrible to hope js DIAF, but the effort to eradicate it 1 js disable at a time, hmmm
[23:46] <binbrain> rick_h_: huh, what's your app?
[23:47] <rick_h_> binbrain: sorry, any of my apps
[23:48] <rick_h_> though my app will be bookie
[23:48] <rick_h_> http://bmark.us
[23:48] <rick_h_> no real js yet though
[23:48] <binbrain> better hope your apps don't end up as the next target for libreplanet rick_h_
[23:48] <wolfger> ok, wtf is this track? Sound more like Gary Wright than metal
[23:50] <rick_h_> ok CHC people get here to help hold space pls
[23:50] <rick_h_> getting busy here tonight all of a sudden, ugh
[23:51] <snap-l> I'm on my way.


[00:35] <lderan> knome, well the merge has been proposed :)
[11:54] <bluesabre> micahg, would you like to approve this?  haven't seen mr_pouit in a little while
[11:54] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
[19:40] <knome> lderan, seriously, what?!
[19:40] <knome> lderan, diff is 256809 lines...
[19:40] <knome> lderan, any possibility you could do bzr merge lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu with your branch and repropose? ;)
[19:41] <knome> that's insane...
[19:45] <lderan> sure
[19:45] <knome> bluesabre, you around?
[19:45] <lderan> not sure what happened there
[19:45] <knome> lderan, thanks :)
[19:45] <knome> yeah, me neither
[19:47] <bluesabre> knome: o/
[19:47] <knome> bluesabre, what's the real package/name for our lightdm greeter
[19:47] <knome> it isn't really "xubuntu greeter", right?
[19:47] <bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter
[19:48] <knome> is there a non-technical name?
[19:48] <knome> "LightDM GTK Greeter" ? :)
[19:48] <bluesabre> LightDM GTK+ Greeter
[19:48] <knome> thansk
[19:48] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter
[19:48] <knome> thanks too
[19:49] <knome> i was thinking that's it, but wanted to make sure
[19:49] <bluesabre> sure thing
[19:50] <knome> one more question - who else is using the greeter?
[19:50] <bluesabre> lubuntu
[19:51] <knome> okay
[19:51] <knome> do you know if they have several sessions, or just lubuntu?
[19:51] <bluesabre> I think they just have one session
[19:51] <bluesabre> I can check later though
[19:51] <knome> okay
[19:51] <knome> i'll try to make the greeter testcase flavor-agnostic
[19:52] <bluesabre> personally, I would love to get rid of our "Xfce Session" since it breaks things
[19:52] <knome> i wouldn't mind that, but i can see why some people appreciate it
[19:54] <knome> what the...
[19:54] <bluesabre> bananas
[19:56] <knome> some weirdo stuff going on in here.
[20:11] <lderan> knome, mmm my commit number is 69 yet yours is 571, is that why that happened?
[20:12] <knome> lderan, heh, that sounds like a fair reason
[20:12] <lderan> lol
[20:12] <knome> how did you manage to pull revision that old?
[20:12] <knome> yeah, it does make sense because it looked like a lot of the code had been moved around...
[20:12] <lderan> i ran bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu to get it
[20:13] <knome> weird
[20:29] <lderan> ah think i wasn't in trunk
[20:50] <lderan> ah ha now a sane version number 569
[20:51] <knome> hehe
[20:53] <lderan> bah "bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information."
[20:54] <lderan> easier to make a new branch on ~lderan/ or is there an easy way to force it?
[20:54] <knome> lp merge lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[20:57] <lderan> Nothing to do.
[20:58] <knome> weird
[20:58] <knome> ehh, bzr merge sure heh
[20:58] <knome> but
[20:58] <lderan> aye :P
[20:59] <knome> maybe you need to chagne the subbranch of whatever that's called in bzr..
[20:59] <knome> bzr switch trunk ?
[21:00] <lderan> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/lderan/trunk/".
[21:01] <knome> heh
[21:01] <knome> weirdo
[21:02] <knome> that's really weird
[21:03] <knome> are you on an ancient revision if you do a re-pull?
[21:04] <lderan> nah, thats how i got the newer version number.
[21:04] <lderan> can't push to my /test branch now tho
[21:04] <knome> of course, because *they* are diverged ;)
[21:04] <lderan> :P
[21:05] <Unit193> Go to LP, delete.
[21:06] <lderan> will that mess with the linked bug?
[21:07] <knome> lderan, yes, but we can re-link.
[21:07] <lderan> okay :)
[21:08] <lderan> okay done and repushed to /test
[21:08] <knome> did you repropose too?
[21:09] <lderan> shall do so now
[21:10] <knome> ta
[21:13] <lderan> done
[21:14] <knome> will check the branch now
[21:14] <lderan> cool :)
[21:16] <knome> and does that work without extra libs installed?
[21:16] <knome> i think we need a reviewer that can do python ;)
[21:18] <lderan> no extra libs :)
[21:18] <lderan> think the only extra python include is os, as far as I know that is a default one.
[21:18] <lderan> and csv
[21:22] <knome> lderan, one more request:
[21:23] <lderan> request away
[21:23] <knome> lderan, can you modify the xubuntu welcome slide to only have the version id (as is in the main branch), and add a "usage" in the description
[21:23] <lderan> sure
[21:24] <knome> if this gets approved, we should get in touch with other flavor teams and possibly dylan to make sure we update every slideshow to use these
[21:27] <lderan> added the usage to the MP description :P
[21:27] <knome> ta
[21:32] <lderan> hopefully next time will go more smoothly, will double check version numbers :P
[21:33] <knome> hehe
[21:33] <knome> no problem ;)
[21:34] <knome> i just had to seek for the way to link the bug to the branch some time
[21:34] <knome> had to go to the bug and link to the branch from there, couldn't link a bug to a branch...
[21:39] <knome> lderan, see your merge proposal, it has comments ;)
[21:39] <lderan> ooo
[21:40] <lderan> that is a quick thing to change :P
[21:40] <knome> not the fallback though
[21:41] <knome> ah, right
[21:53] <lderan> mmm a fallback
[22:22] <lderan> shall implement Dylans suggest tomorrow :P
[22:22] <lderan> suggestion*
[22:22] <knome> nice, thanks :)


[00:00] <val_> I fixed the sound to keep the enhanced amplification option to %150 :)
[00:05] <oerheks> Does that stick over 100% after reboot?
[00:11] <Sp3eDem0n> hello world@!!
[00:12] <val_> yes, it sticks to %150 after reboot
[00:22] <Polochon_street> hi! Is there any way place with checksums (md5, etc) of binaries installed by default on Ubuntu? I'm facing something that might have compromised my `ps` (and other commands), and I'd like to check their integrity
[00:26] <Bashing-om> Polochon_street: Yeah - kernel keeps a check file: /var/lib/dpkg/info/<package_name>.md5sums : list of MD5 hash values for files installed by the package. The installation of debsums enables verification of installed package files against MD5sum values in the this file.
[00:26] <Polochon_street> which package `ps` belongs to? `dpkg -S /bin/ps` didn't return anything
[00:27] <Polochon_street> I assume it's a built-in or something, so not sure how this works
[00:32] <oerheks> dpkg -S /bin/ps returns procps: /bin/ps
[00:32] <oerheks> !info procps
[00:33] <oerheks> so you have a weird ubuntu?
[00:35] <val_> who? me?
[00:37] <oerheks> no, not you val_
[00:38] <oerheks> i wait for a good time to reboot, never got volume set above 100%.
[00:39] <val_> click on sound icon on the taskbar, the check the option: raise maximum volume
[00:39] <val_> but it worked after installing the app gnome tweaks and selecting: over amplification
[00:40] <val_> install the app first
[00:41] <Polochon_street> yea, that ubuntu VM is in an interesting state :D thanks for the help!
[00:46] <sarnold> oerheks: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=134758
[00:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Debian bug 134758 in dpkg "dpkg-query: Make -S handle unowned symlinks resolving to owned pathnames" [Wishlist, Open]
[00:46] <sarnold> oerheks: dpkg -S just plain doesn't know what's what some of the time :(
[00:48] <oerheks> weird, it worked for me
[00:57] <lagash_> Hello, I'm trying to get hostapd working. I have an USB WiFi adapter, I know it has AP support (I've used it before on a RPi), but apparently Ubuntu uses a stack that's different from what I'm used to. For instance, I can't find /etc/network/interfaces, and I've heard that's because Ubuntu now uses netplan?? I want it so that when the interface appears (i.e. when I plug in the device), the AP gets started.
[00:58] <lagash_> I'm using Ubuntu jammy. /etc/netplan/* seems to pass it on to NetworkManager, and NM seems to have the ifupdown plugin...
[01:01] <sarnold> lagash_: you can switch netplan to use the systemd-networkd framework, too
[01:02] <lagash_> sarnold: I'm actually more familiar with NM
[01:02] <sarnold> lagash_: unfortunately i find the docs on the system itself to be pretty thin; the better docs are online https://netplan.io/
[02:45] <theorem> so, if vncserver allows me to connect , but upon connection it's just a gray screen.  I thik this means the window manager is not functioning, right ?
[02:49] <sarnold> or perhaps it is running and no clients have been configured to start?
[02:49] <sarnold> I never really got the hang of vnc things
[02:49] <theorem> hmm, I just ran gnome-session
[02:49] <theorem> /usr/libexec/gnome-session-binary: symbol lookup error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgdk-3.so.0: undefined symbol: wl_proxy_marshal_flags
[02:49] <theorem> seems like a library problem
[02:50] <crax23> that;s probably because it started a secondary X session theorem.
[02:50] <crax23> Bad vnc server configuration i think.
[02:50] <theorem> hmm, ok.
[02:50] <theorem> the library problem isn't a normal error though
[02:51] <theorem> I'll tweak the vncserver conf though
[02:51] <sarnold> that sounds a bit like it's trying to run wayland
[02:52] <theorem> yes, it was working ok before .. but I think I broke something ...
[02:52] <sarnold> does that work? I heard pipewire things were introduced to try to make wayland deal with recording and remote sessions and the like
[02:52] <sarnold> ah
[02:52] <theorem> should it not run wayland ?
[02:52] <pinkergloop> yo
[02:52] <pinkergloop> so i'm on ubuntu studio 22.10
[02:53] <pinkergloop> i still have the weird issue with my desktop (plasma) from yesterday where everything desktop-related freezes but existing apps still run
[02:53] <theorem> here's the config https://pastebin.com/0Q8nATwz
[02:53] <pinkergloop> let me post the logs
[02:54] <sarnold> theorem: is the missing # at the start an accident in pasting?
[02:54] <theorem> yes, paste error
[02:54] <theorem> the shebang is there
[02:54] <pinkergloop> https://pastebin.com/G0HQX2pj
[02:54] <pinkergloop> i have no idea what to do as of rn
[02:55] <sarnold> theorem: there's two calls to gnome-session -- I'd expect only one of those to be necessary. I don't know what exactly gnome-session is supposed to do, but I think I'd expect it to be responsible for starting the panel, shell, etc
[02:55] <sarnold> theorem: it's a bit weird that metacity is listed, too -- I thought that was replaced by gnome-shell?
[02:56] <theorem> I hacked it together
[02:56] <theorem> and it worked , so I left it :-P
[02:56] <sarnold> hehe :)
[02:56] <theorem> but, it doesn't work now
[02:56] <theorem> so .. there's that
[02:56] <theorem> :)
[02:56] <theorem> I'll remove metacity
[02:57] <sarnold> pinkergloop: sheesh, that's pretty hard to decipher :(
[02:58] <theorem> interesting
[02:58] <theorem> yes, it must be this library problem
[02:58] <theorem> because I am getting it with xfce4 too
[02:59] <theorem> xfce4-session: symbol lookup error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgdk-3.so.0: undefined symbol: wl_proxy_marshal_flags
[02:59] <pinkergloop> sarnold: oh damn :/
[03:00] <pinkergloop> what could be the cause of the whole "binding loop" thing?
[03:01] <pinkergloop> the one theory that i do have is it MIGHT be a graphics card driver thing
[03:04] <theorem> hmm, so this has to be a library issue.  the gtk3 lib must have this symbol
[03:05] <theorem> I suppose I could find the source package that installed it wih apt
[03:06] <pinkergloop> idk though, isn't the rx 6950 xt supposed to work out of box?
[03:07] <sarnold> theorem: oo check this last comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1960737
[03:08] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1960737 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3-0/gtk-query-immodules-3.0: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgdk-3.so.0: undefined symbol: wl_proxy_marshal_flags" [Undecided, Invalid]
[03:08] <sarnold> pinkergloop: I'm no expert on video stuff but that sounds pretty plausible, yeah
[03:09] <theorem> sarnold: checking
[03:09] <pinkergloop> theorem: tysm
[03:10] <theorem> sarnold: oh, that saouds very plausible, I did have the amdgpu drivers installed, I thought I removed all of them
[03:11] <theorem> they have all been disabled .. but I do have them ...
[03:12] <theorem> so I suspect I need to upgrade them ..
[03:12] <pinkergloop> theorem: i never installed them tbh because i was under the impression that ubuntu came with them. only problem is that on the amd website, rx 6950 xt drivers seem to be only for up to 22.04 but i'm on 22.10. would that be an issue?
[03:13] <theorem> pinkergloop: you chatting to sarnold ?
[03:13] <pinkergloop> theorem: oh wait nvm somehow i missed what he said to you and thought he was calling you for help loool
[03:14] <pinkergloop> sarnold: but yeah
[03:14] <pinkergloop> my complete mistake
[03:14] <theorem> ;-P  all good
[03:18] <theorem> sarnold: so, rather than upgrade, it looks like I installed it by file
[03:18] <theorem> how do I just ... remove it ?
[03:19] <theorem> eg: deb https://repo.radeon.com/amdgpu/22.10.2/ubuntu focal main
[03:19] <theorem> whoops, wrong paste
[03:19] <sarnold> theorem: maybe apt install --reinstall <packagename> ?
[03:20] <theorem> # deb [trusted=yes] file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local/ ./ # disabled on upgrade to bionic
[03:20] <theorem> this is how I installed it
[03:20] <theorem> the files are around
[03:20] <theorem> but I don't want to add the dist back to apt
[03:20] <theorem> I should be able to use dpkg yo remove it ?
[03:20] <theorem> *to
[03:20] <sarnold> yeah, dpkg --purge or something like that; I haven't used it directly in ages
[03:24] <Leftinthsun> yes
[03:24] <theorem> https://pastebin.com/Cpc9pBtC
[03:24] <theorem> :-|
[03:25] <theorem> I *think* I can remove all this
[03:26] <sarnold> I think so too, but boy that's a big list
[03:26] <theorem> yeah
[03:26] <theorem> they're all inter-dependent too
[03:34] <theorem> getting there ....
[03:35] <pink_eye> GM
[03:39] <theorem> damn.
[03:39] <theorem> that was a lit to remove
[03:39] <theorem> *list
[03:39] <theorem> but it fixed it.
[03:40] <theorem> now to make vncserver atually look good.
[03:40] <sarnold> theorem: sweet!
[03:42] <theorem> ohhhhhhh yes.  it look sso much better :)
[03:42] <theorem> it was such a bitch to setup vncserver the first time
[03:43] <sarnold> hah yeah taht's the impression I always get whenever someone debugs it into working :)
[03:43] <theorem> now ... I WOULD like it to look like the standard Ubuntu desktop
[03:43] <theorem> you said something about metacity before
[03:43] <theorem> what should it be instead ?
[03:44] <theorem> I had a bunch of stuff crash as it started properly
[03:44] <theorem> ( from the xstartup, so it's ok )
[03:44] <sarnold> gnome-shell -- I'm pretty sure it ought to be started by gnome-session
[03:45] <theorem> gnome-session gnome-shell &
[03:45] <theorem> ??
[03:49] <sarnold> oh no :(
[03:52] <theorem> woo.
[03:53] <sarnold> oh yay!
[03:54] <theorem> sarnold: so, if I am getting "Oh No! Something has gone wrong ..."  "Please log out and try again"  ..
[03:54] <theorem> what could this be ?
[03:57] <sarnold> theorem: oh no :( that's very vague :(
[03:57] <theorem> haha
[03:58] <theorem> alright, let me get some logs
[04:00] <theorem> Xlib:  extension "X-Resource" missing on display ":1".
[04:03] <theorem> ok, this makes more sense
[04:03] <sarnold> oh wow
[04:03] <theorem> https://pastebin.com/YhUYGeMZ
[04:03] <theorem> sarnold: lol, what ?
[04:03] <theorem> I am imagining you making the "scared pikachu" face :)
[04:03] <sarnold> theorem: I can't really imagine X without X resources
[04:03] <sarnold> theorem: I had no idea it was an *extension*, they've been there longer than I've been using linux, lol
[04:04] <theorem> oh, could I have uninstalled it by accident ?
[04:04] <sarnold> I hope not :)
[04:05] <theorem> heh
[04:06] <sarnold> theorem: I've got to head out :( good luck
[04:06] <theorem> later
[04:06] <theorem> have fun
[04:06] <sarnold> thanks :) you too!
[07:25] <eest> sarnold: yeah i will see what i can do, trying to figure out how to best deal with the situation, seems it would make sense to, at some part in the program, iterate over the found devices, check if any duplicate wwn's exist and mark a drive as such, so that instead of just removing wwn like i did, you can check "is this duplicate" and continue to the next option like serial
[07:37] <pink_eye> greetings
[07:42] <ducasse> morning
[09:36] <Chunkyz> Morning all ❤❣
[09:40] <kostkon> Chunkyz, morning
[11:44] <trafficjam> what are the advantages of ubuntu core?
[11:45] <ravage> trafficjam: https://ubuntu.com/core/features
[11:45] <trafficjam> can it be run locally?
[11:46] <trafficjam> and do I need that bs Ubuntu One account to access it?
[11:49] <collector-ynh[m]> Hi, I am using Ubuntu with full encryption on an SSD, and I just added a second SSD that I use only for storage, but I would like to add it to the Ubuntu LUKS encryption as well, so that when I decrypt the OS, it also decrypts it.
[11:49] <collector-ynh[m]> Is it possible to add a storage medium to the Ubuntu LUKS encryption?
[11:50] <ravage> collector-ynh[m]: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/368073/is-it-possible-to-unlock-multiple-luks-devices-to-form-a-lvm-at-boot
[11:51] <ravage> The current version of *ubuntu seems to automatically load the mentioned script without being specified.
[12:08] <ice99> the naming reported by lsusb --tree is different from what dmesg reports when a device is plugged; so how can I identify which port I'm using to find out it's speed?
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> ice99: is sudo lsusb -vvv |grep -i -B5 -A5 bcdUSB , what you seek for?
 "collector-ynh: https://unix...." <- thanks :)
[13:15] <MacSlow> Greetings everyone!
[13:28] <tarel2> Installed Ubuntu first and gentoo second.  for gentoo I chose to put it on own partition and made second efi for Gentoo.  now I thought rather then push f2 and use the bios to chose which os, a menu in grub would be nice. How do you use os-prober in Ubuntu 20.04?
[13:29] <Jeremy31> tarel2: Might just have to reinstall grub from Ubuntu
[13:30] <tarel2> Wow , that is lame
[13:31] <Guest19> Hi guys I need help with a question about Bitcoin and Taxes in the USA hoping u guys can advise
[13:32] <Guest19> I bought $100 worth of BTC with my debit card on Coinbase, then sold back to coinbase for USD, and withdrew to my bank account
[13:32] <tomreyn> !ot | Guest19
[13:32] <Guest19> IDK how to file this in taxes, as I no longer have access to my coinbase
[13:32] <Guest19> come on dude its 5am and theres no other discussions
[15:12] <theguy> hello
[15:13] <theguy> chat
[15:33] <nhu> can i have help
[15:34] <leftyfb> !ask | nhu
[15:34] <alkisg> !ask
[15:35] <nhu> !patience
[15:35] <leftyfb> nhu: what do you need help with?
[15:38] <nhu> i need help with trying to install pihole it gives this output :
[15:38] <jhutchins> !paste
[15:39] <nhu> ✓] Checking for sudo
[15:39] <nhu>   [✓] Checking for unzip
[15:39] <nhu>   [i] Checking for idn2 (will be installed)
[15:39] <nhu>   [✓] Checking for libcap2-bin
[15:39] <nhu>   [✓] Checking for dns-root-data
[15:39] <nhu>   [✓] Checking for libcap2
[15:39] <leftyfb> nhu: pihole is not a supported application in ubuntu. nhu that said, there are plenty of really good tutorials on how to install it https://raspberrytips.com/install-pi-hole-on-ubuntu/
[15:40] <leftyfb> nhu: https://www.osradar.com/install-pihole-on-ubuntu-20-04/
[15:56] <Chunkyz> There's also #pihole on this network
[15:56] <Chunkyz> Oh, he left.
[17:09] <user521> Hello All, I hope you re good. I have a HP Pavillion with Ubuntu 22.04.1 LTS installed. Everything is in full working order but, when I lower the lid and then reopen, it goes stuck in airplane mode and there is no way to get out of it. This happens both with battery or powered. Could please anyone support me? I tried already some guide on google but it didnt work unfortunately
[17:09] <user521> thaks a lot
[17:10] <mister_m> I have a laptop where I've used gnome-tweaks to swap caps lock and control for accessibility reasons. Unfortunately, if I plug in an external keyboard where this is not necessary the re-map would also apply to the external keyboard. Is anyone aware of a way to have this caps/ctrl swap only apply to my laptop's keyboard and nothing external? I imagine I'd need to do this outside of gnome-tweaks.
[17:54] <RP_M> hi all
[18:06] <jhutchins> mister_m: Are you expecting to use both keyboards as input to the same user session?
[18:07] <mister_m> jhutchins: I am, yes
[18:19] <jhutchins> mister_m: I believe there is nothing that distinguishes the source of keyboard input.  I think the system can't tell which keyboard is sending a code.
[18:49] <mister_m> Ah bummer. jhutchins Assuming that there is a different way to manage this outside of gnome-tweaks (I am sure there is), would there be an easy way to flip between having that re-map on or off?
[18:50] <mister_m> It looks like this thread https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/268171/linux-detect-if-external-keyboard-is-plugged-to-laptop  may have some ideas on doing this with udev rules. Looks complicated
[20:12] <ice9> where can I see a list of Ubunut's patches to the stock kernel?
[20:15] <rbox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/SourceCode
[21:06] <jhutchins> mister_m: I think the premise is that you are very unlikely to use two keyboards at the same time, therefore it's easier to just toggle the layout on the keyboard you are using at the time.
[21:07] <jhutchins> mister_m: Multi-station multi-session is built into the linux core, but usually requires some special hardware.
[21:08] <jhutchins> (And I just got rid of my eight port serial expander...)
[21:10] <Elliria> Hey there, does anybody know of a YAML viewer for Ubuntu?
[21:11] <rbox> yaml is text
[21:11] <rbox> so... cat
[21:11] <Elliria> No, I mean a GUI so you can see how it behaves.
[21:11] <Elliria> I write and edit it in Geany text editor, but I'd like to see the result.
[21:12] <rbox> behave?
[21:12] <rbox> what result
[21:12] <Elliria> You can create interactive elements with YAML and I'd like to see them.
[21:12] <rbox> use your eyes?
[21:12] <jhutchins> Elliria: Most web browsers will render yaml.
[21:13] <jhutchins> Elliria: What's your end application?
[21:13] <Elliria> GitHub, but I'd love an offline viewer so I can perfect the code offline and them only put it onto GitHub once I like it.
[21:13] <Elliria> You're a rude person rbox.
[21:15] <Habbie> Elliria, what kind of interactive elements do you mean?
[21:16] <jhutchins> Elliria: GitHub doesn't render YAML, so I'm presuming the actuall end viewer is in fact a web browser.  Maybe you didn't know web browsers can render local files?
[21:16] <Elliria> Checkboxes, radio buttons, etc.
[21:16] <Habbie> Elliria, ok, that doesn't sound like "just YAML" but some specific application that uses it
[21:17] <Elliria> GitHub uses YAML for their new issue templates: https://docs.github.com/en/communities/using-templates-to-encourage-useful-issues-and-pull-requests/syntax-for-issue-forms
[21:17] <Elliria> Yeah, and I'm hoping for a similar application for my offline use.
[21:18] <Habbie> ok, now the question is clear
[22:33] <philipp64> I recently applied updates and rebooted on my 22.04 x86_64 system, and now I can't scp/sftp to/from that system... though "ssh" itself seems to mostly work.  any ideas?
[22:33] <philipp64> I get: client_loop: send disconnect: Broken pipe
[22:34] <jim> I'm temporarily running ubuntu, I think it's the lts 22.04... I'm trying to get pulse and jack to cooperate; how can I do that?
[22:34] <jim> philipp64, I dunno.. is the sshd running?
[22:35] <philipp64> yes, like I said, I can ssh in just fine.
[22:35] <jim> but can't scp?
[22:35] <philipp64> correct
[22:36] <jim> ok, what happens when you try?
[22:36] <ravage> jim: i think Ubuntu Studio has a much better integration with jack
[22:36] <philipp64> MacOS to ubuntu:
[22:36] <philipp64> ssh_dispatch_run_fatal: Connection to <IP_ADDRESS> port 22: message authentication code incorrect
[22:37] <philipp64> Ubuntu to other linux system:
[22:37] <philipp64> client_loop: send disconnect: Broken pipe
[22:37] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer
[22:37] <jim> so the ubuntu is where you're starting from? running the scp on?
[22:37] <ravage> there is the expert on that :) \o Eickmeyer
[22:38] <Eickmeyer> Hey ravage o/
[22:39] <ravage> philipp64: do you auth with a private key?
[22:39] <jim> yeah, I had problems with cadence when I tried it under debian... the deps were weird, it pulled in weird packages, and I had to reinstall the thing
[22:39] <philipp64> ravage: yes
[22:40] <ravage> philipp64: can you try to enable password auth and see if the problem is still there?
[22:40] <jim> Eickmeyer, is it cadence?
[22:40] <Eickmeyer> jim: No, in fact we encourage avoiding cadence.
[22:40] <Eickmeyer> !kxstudio | jim
[22:41] <jim> ok
[22:41] <jim> that does make me feel a bit better about it
[22:42] <Eickmeyer> !studio-controls | jim: We have a built-in-house (but available to other distros) app.
[22:43] <jim> Eickmeyer, does ubumtu studio (sp) have ardour? and/or, could I build it?
[22:43] <Eickmeyer> Yes, Ardour is included.
[22:44] <jim> ok, let's see.. I would start by installing ubuntu studio?
[22:44] <ravage> good first step :)
[22:44] <Eickmeyer> jim: Depends. You can either go the Ubuntu Studio .iso route or use any official flavor and use ubuntustudio-installer route.
[22:44] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | jim
[22:45] <ravage> i would for the LTS release if you dont have any bleeding edge hardware
[22:45] <ravage> the ISO is the best way if you dont care about your current ubuntu installation of course
[22:45] <Eickmeyer> And if you don't mind the KDE Plasma desktop.
[22:45] <ravage> oh yeah
[22:46] <ravage> forgot about that :D
[22:46] <Eickmeyer> If you like other desktops, go to the flavor you like, then install ubuntustudio-installer and install everything that way.
[22:46] <jim> kde is fine as long as it works :)
[22:47] <jim> so this "official flavor" involves reinstalling linux?
[22:47] <kwak> What's a safe, easy, convenient and user-friendly way to wipe the data on a Ubuntu PC (with no concern for existing data) in preparation for handing its HDD over to someone who can't be trusted not to do forensics on the drive to access sensitive data?
[22:48] <Eickmeyer> !flavor | jim
[22:48] <Habbie> kwak, HDD or SSD?
[22:48] <kwak> I honestly don't know!
[22:48] <kwak> It's a laptop.
[22:48] <ravage> jim: i would go with a clean installation if you already messed with the audio routing and installed stuff for it
[22:49] <Habbie> kwak, ah actually this one might work for both https://grok.lsu.edu/article.aspx?articleid=16716
[22:49] <kwak> Seems to be SSD.
[22:49] <Habbie> ah
[22:49] <Habbie> then click the first link in this article
[22:49] <Habbie> oh, that doesn't really cover Linux
[22:50] <Eickmeyer> jim: I agree with ravage. Sounds like the kxstudio (and cadence) stuff messed with your system, predictably.
[22:50] <Habbie> kwak, anyway, see if that hdparm method works - either it works and is pretty quick, or it fails and you can look further
[22:51] <kwak> Alright cool, I'll add that to the list of things to try.
[22:51] <kwak> Thanks pal. :)
[22:51] <Habbie> np, good luck :)
[22:51] <n9sgg> dd if=/dev/random # figure out the rest
[22:51] <jhutchins> Is the SATA erase considered DOD secure?
[22:52] <jhutchins> DBAN is.
[22:52] <jim> Eickmeyer, ravage, here's the problem, and why I'm in ubuntu now: I used to have a 4thGen i5, but the DSP started crapping out on it, so I decided to upgrade to a new cpu, and I thought, i7... so I got it, and it's a 12thGen i7, and intel says something like, "we added the driver to ubuntu, but other dists we'll get to another time"... so I'm sitting waiting in ubuntu until other dists get the driver
[22:52] <Habbie> jhutchins, on SSDs too?
[22:52] <jhutchins> Habbie: Which?
[22:52] <jim> so... I actually -do- have "bleeding edge" hardware... argh.
[22:52] <Habbie> jhutchins, is DBAN on SSDs considered DOD secure?
[22:53] <jhutchins> Yes.  It may not be the preferred method given the extensive writing, but it's acceptable.
[22:53] <ravage> jim: well. this is the Ubuntu support channel. we can only help with that :)
[22:53] <Habbie> ok, dban.org says "It cannot detect or erase SSDs "
[22:54] <Eickmeyer> jim: I haven't distro-hopped for about 5 years, so as you can tell, I'm pretty happy. :)
[22:54] <jim> really, if you want to avoid giving this person (that you don't trust) a "wiped" drive, I would suggest -not- giving him a drive you care about the contents of
[22:54] <jhutchins> Habbie: Sorry, I guess my knowledge is obsolete.
[22:54] <Habbie> jim, +100 to that
[22:55] <Habbie> jhutchins, i hoped to find that wikipedia was obsolete and dban.org was not, but i guess we both learned things today!
[22:55] <Habbie> because a few minutes ago i was actually going to suggest DBAN "because surely it handles SSDs too"
[22:55] <jim> ravage, yep, I get that...
[22:55] <jhutchins> I thought there was a way to run dban manually rather than just the boot method.
[22:56] <jhutchins> 'course my real knowledge of it goes back to two boot floppies.
[22:56] <Habbie> hehe
[22:56] <Habbie> i actually only learned about DBAN recently, browsing the list of offerings in netboot.xyz
[22:57] <jim> Eickmeyer, someday I'd tell you my story of why I picked debian 25 years ago... but that's kinda offtopic for here, and there's activity, so it's just noise
[22:57] <Habbie> (it was not what i needed at the time and netboot.xyz kindly provided another warning screen before it would boot it)
[22:58] <Eickmeyer> jim: Right. I hang out in #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntustudio-offtopic if you ever want to tell me stories. :)
[23:04] <jim> ok, thanks for letting me know... I installed that ubuntustudio-installer package, and now I get sound from youtube, so things are looking up
[23:07] <philipp64> ravage: found the problem. a dev had installed /etc/ld.so.conf.d/crypto.conf pointing to /usr/local/lib/libcrypto... with an openssl-3.0.x built without openssl-1.1.x compatbility API's enabled.
[23:08] <ravage> philipp64: great :)
[23:51] <lucas__> hello?


[14:55] <qense> tedg: What about moving the Python bindings to use GObject Introspection?
[14:56] <tedg> qense, I have no issue with that, I haven't yet asked if PyGI is going to be in main for Maverick.
[14:56] <tedg> qense, Otherwise it's just testing.
[14:56] <qense> tedg: Isn't it yet?
[14:56] <tedg> qense, I'm not sure, I haven't asked :)
[14:56] <qense> tedg: gir1.0-appindicator-0.1 is in universe at the moment.
[14:56] <seb128> tedg, well, pygi is deprecated
[14:57] <qense> seb128: What should we use instead?
[14:57] <seb128> tedg, they merged that back in pygobject
[14:57] <qense> ah!
[14:57] <seb128> it's just going to be part of pygobject
[14:57] <seb128> so you can depends on it
[14:57] <seb128> it's still moving parts though
[14:57] <seb128> I would rather wait for next cycle to depends on new techs
[14:58] <seb128> ie gtk3, introspection
[14:58] <qense> ok
[14:58] <seb128> well that doesn't stop to start work on it
[14:58] <seb128> that will probably come in useful
[14:58] <qense> Is introspection support already in GObjct in Maverick?
[14:58] <seb128> but I don't think for the default installation we should rely on it much for this cycle
[14:58] <seb128> no, but we have pygi in universe right now
[14:58] <seb128> you can use that until we upgrade pygobject
[14:59] <qense> ok
[14:59] <seb128> should not make a real difference
[14:59] <qense> There is a deprecated sinkfunc warning thing each time you import a module from the repository for the first time.
[14:59] <seb128> right
[16:33] <qense> tedg: It was decided during the Application Indicator meeting at the UDS-M that some guy from the DX/Desktop team would solve the C# bindings inheritance problem by sealing the class, right?
[16:34] <qense> seb128: Do you know what version of GTK# will be included in Maverick? Specifically the GAPI2 components, since the trunk contains an update for it that adds support for GObject virtual methods, which is something we need to get the fallback and unfallback functions of libappindicator to be properly supported in Mono as well. (Currently you can't do custom fallbacks in C#)
[16:34] <qense> .
[16:35] <seb128> no
[16:35] <seb128> better to ask Laney or directhex
[16:36] <qense> seb128: OK, thanks.
[16:42] <LucidFox> tedg, you
[16:42] <LucidFox> * you're here, excellent!
[16:42] <tedg> LucidFox, Howdy
[16:43] <LucidFox> I was told to poke you about the Liferea messaging indicator patch :)
[16:44] <jcastro> he can't escape now!
[16:45] <qense> :)
[16:46] <qense> jcastro: How'sthe hplip patch doing?
[16:46] <jcastro> qense: sitting.
[16:46] <jcastro> qense: I should have a person RSN
[16:46] <qense> jcastro: Anything that needs to be done for it?
[16:46] <qense> RSN?
[16:48] <LucidFox> bug #540490 > tedg
[16:48] <LucidFox> hmm, what's the "redirection" syntax?
[16:50] <tedg> LucidFox, Cool.  Do you by chance know which Liferea will be in Maverick?  i.e. should we be looking at 1.7 or 1.6.
[16:52] <LucidFox> No idea, I thought core developers decided that
[16:52] <LucidFox> right now it's 1.6, I have patches for both 1.6 and 1.7
[16:57] <tedg> seb128, Do you know which version of liferea will be in Maverick?
[16:58] <qense> tedg: Bug 558841 was fixed by you with commit 136. Could you assign the Application Indicators task to the 0.2.2 milestone?
[16:59] <tedg> qense, Sure
[16:59] <qense> tedg: Thanks!
[17:00] <seb128> tedg, no, whatever is stable by maverick time
[17:00] <qense> seb128: so bug 558841 should be fixed one 0.2.2 gets uploaded to Maverick.
[17:00] <seb128> ok
[17:00] <seb128> tedg, could you make a a 0.0.2n update with it maybe?
[17:01] <seb128> tedg, or should I just sru the commit on the current stable version?
[17:01] <tedg> seb128, I can make that tarball as well.
[17:01] <seb128> tedg, would be nice
[17:30] <joey> iainfarrell: ping
[17:31] <iainfarrell> joey: hey there
[17:31] <qense> bug 530138 is a duplicate of the bluetooth bug
[17:54] <qense> A lot of "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_instance_get_private()" bugs, all having this problem in the apply_status() function.
[19:53] <qense> tedg: What do you think of <https://code.launchpad.net/~qense/indicator-application/appstore-private-macro-calls/+merge/29492>? Sensible change or not?