[00:12] <ronny> lifeless: aware of a simple way for automated installs of different bzr versions?
[00:13] <lifeless> bzr branch?
[00:13] <ronny> (im trying to refactor anyvc's tests to check multiple versions of the different vcs's if possible)
[00:14] <lifeless> ronny: just don't install bzr, if you are using bzrlib, set PYTHONPATH, if you are running the command line, just run the bzr in the source tree
[00:14] <ronny> hmk
[00:16] <lifeless> rationale - bzrlib isn't versioned, short of lots-of-magic-with-eggs, you can't have more than one installed at a time
[00:36] <jelmer> igc: hi
[00:38] <igc> hi jelmer
[00:40] <jelmer> igc: You mentioned on the list you're working on a patch to support custom rules
[00:41] <igc> jelmer: just about to. See http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.bazaar-ng.general/51347
[00:42] <igc> jelmer: let me know if that sounds ok to you
[00:46] <jelmer> igc: I like the flexibility
[00:46] <jelmer> igc: though it also means local configuration is *always* required when using keywords/eol-conversions
[00:47] <jelmer> igc: and this doesn't e.g. allow for use of rules set in svn
[00:47] <igc> jelmer: can you explain further?
[00:47] <lifeless> igc: How do filters interact with diff -r x..y?
[00:47] <igc> jelmer: I was hoping we could ...
[00:48] <igc> do something like "rules_location = svn:..."
[00:48] <igc> lifeless: diff should apply to the canonical text, not the text in the working tree
[00:48] <jelmer> igc: ah, hmm
[00:48] <jelmer> igc: that seems like overkill though, as you would set that to the same location you've just checked out
[00:48] <igc> external diff tools are an issue though
[00:49] <lifeless> igc: ok; I was just considering the case of dealing with versioned files
[00:49] <jelmer> igc: and that would require on-line access to the svn repo
[00:49] <lifeless> versioned rules
[00:49] <lifeless> I'm still extremely nervous about them, I don't think its thought out enough
[00:50] <jelmer> IMHO ideally rules should be a per-tree versioned setting, while not being part of that tree itself.
[00:50] <jelmer> and access to them abstracted away
[00:51] <lifeless> jelmer: my concerns are about things like 'merge' when the rules change
[00:51] <lifeless> do we read via old rules and write via new correctly? and what if they conflict
[00:51] <jelmer> (that's non-trivial to achieve though, so I understand we should support look at other solutions in the short term)
[00:51] <jelmer> s/support//
[00:52] <lifeless> or pull, as a simpler case to analyse
[00:52] <lifeless> igc: I'm really glad the core filter support has landed
[00:52] <igc> jelmer: my immediate concern is to support something better than "just global" rules
[00:52] <igc> lifeless: thanks
[00:52] <jelmer> igc: Yes, I agree
[00:53] <igc> jelmer: while allowing you ...
[00:53] <igc> to do something smarter when you can
[00:53] <jelmer> igc: so, the main thing I'm worried about is if we introduce things now that will prevent the utopian situation I mentioned earlier from happening
[00:54] <jelmer> igc: putting a magic .bzrrules file in the tree would make it very hard to get to that situation at some point
[00:54] <jelmer> igc: Your current proposal doesn't appear to
[00:54] <igc> jelmer: I feel the rules_location setting solves many problems. It's a technical solution that still needs good guidelines around it, of course
[00:55] <igc> jelmer: but I'm convinced that we just can't answer everyone's desires here
[00:55] <jelmer> igc: Sure, I understand. I think the current proposal is reasonable
[00:56] <lifeless> I like the concept that bzr won't magically handle the versioned file in the tree before we are ready to do that
[00:57] <igc> lifeless: me too
[00:57] <igc> jelmer: are there tweaks to my proposal that would help you?
[00:58] <igc> jelmer: btw, there's no default - if rules_location isn't set, then just global rules apply
[00:58] <igc> jelmer: importantly though, rules_location can be set in locations.conf and re-used across a bunch of branches
[00:59] <jelmer> igc: No, I don't think there's much that can be done to support bzr-svn other than moving to per-tree (but not in-tree) rules
[01:00] <jelmer> igc: My main worry was your proposal would add a in-tree .bzrrules with a magic meaning (much like .bzrignore), since that would pretty much prevent moving to per-tree rules in the future
[01:01] <igc> jelmer: so perhaps tree.conf is what you want?
[01:02] <igc> jelmer: there will be no magic .bzrrules file, though some projects may decide to put their rules in such a file and set rules_locations to pint to it, of course. *But* it's just a path - it could be called anything and put anywhere
[01:02] <igc> s/pint/point/
[01:03] <jelmer> igc: For svn, the rules would have to be a property of a Tree object, including RevisionTree objects
[01:03] <igc> jelmer: my expectation is that many people (e.g. me) will put rules in the shared-repo directory, i.e. above the branch directories
[01:04] <igc> jelmer: from memory, the API for looking up rules is on Tree, because rules are path dependent
[01:05] <jelmer> igc: But they're not stored as part of a Tree atm
[01:06] <jelmer> bzr-svn can import rules for historic svn revisions, but it isn't involved for the working tree
[01:06] <lifeless> igc: please make info [-v?] print out the rules config
[01:06] <igc> jelmer: right
[01:06] <igc> lifeless: shall do
[01:07] <lifeless> I just mean the value of the pointer, not all the rules - just thinking fordebugging with users
[01:07] <igc> lifeless: yes, that's what I thought you meant
[01:07] <lifeless> :)
[01:08] <lifeless> james_w: ping
[01:14] <jelmer> igc: anyway, even if we can't import rules from svn yet, we can support svn keywords now (-: Thanks!
[01:20] <igc> jelmer: well, keeping in mind that our keywords aren't a one-for-one match with svn's ones, yes
[01:22] <jelmer> igc: Yeah, but filters should allow the bzr-svn plugin to provide a svn-keywords Contentfilter that does
[01:23] <igc> jelmer: absolutely true!
[01:24] <jelmer> igc: (I didn't mean to come across as negative wrt filters btw, I like how they're shaping up so far)
[01:24]  * jelmer gets some sleep
[01:25] <igc> night jelmer, and thanks for the input/feedback - much appreciated
[01:27] <james_w> hi lifeless
[01:27] <lifeless> james_w: can you pastebin your hackjob, or something
[01:30] <james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/135726/
[01:35] <lifeless> james_w: how did it perform
[01:35] <james_w> I've no idea
[01:35] <james_w> I was just running the testsuite and looking at the failures
[01:53] <bignose> bzr branch foo/ bar/ && bzr loomify bar/
[01:53] <bignose> cd bar/ && bzr create-thread spam && hack hack hack && bzr commit
[01:54] <bignose> What now needs to be done so that I can get changes from bar/ to foo/ such that foo/ doesn't need the loom plugin?
[01:54] <bignose> if I generate a patch bundle from bar/ at the above point, will that patch bundle have problems in foo/ (which has no loom plugin)?
[01:57] <lifeless> bignose: bzr switch spam && bzr push foo/
[01:57] <bignose> okay. so the revision data won't depend on the loom plugin?
[01:58] <bignose> in particular, can I make a patch bundle from bar/ and give it to the owner of foo/ who doesn't use looms?
[01:59] <lifeless> yes
[01:59] <bignose> thanks.
[02:00] <bignose> if I want to avoid surprises for the owner of foo/, are there any actions I should avoid so they don't get messages about incompatibilities caused by the loom?
[02:03] <lifeless> nope
[02:03] <lifeless> the loom won't pollute an existing branch
[02:04] <bignose> great, thank you.
[02:04] <lifeless> if you push to a new url, you'll get a new loom, if you push to an existing branch, it pushes the current thread of the loom to that branch
[02:04] <mwhudson> jelmer: are you around, by any chance?
[02:05] <lifeless> if you 'bzr send' it does the normal thing, of getting the revisions from the target branch common ancestor through to the current tip
[02:05] <lifeless> with loom, I often do 'bzr send -r thread:..-1' to get a cherrypick of the current thread only
[02:07] <bignose> doesn't ‘bzr send -r thread:’ do the same thing? (i.e. I thought the end-of-range defaulted to the tip)
[02:08] <mwhudson> er
[02:09] <lifeless> bignose: Please use ascii quotes, or I can' read it
[02:09] <bignose> nnnggg
[02:09]  * bignose curses IRC for not preserving character encoding information
[02:09] <mwhudson> why does the main branch of dulwich now have revision ids that look like bzr-git revids?
[02:09] <lifeless> mwhudson: jelmer has gone to sleep, I don't know the answer :P
[02:10] <bignose> mwhudson: could be because someone used git as a branch-sanitise tool?
[02:10] <lifeless> bignose: oh, its at my end, its not IRC per se, but still :(
[02:10] <bignose> lifeless: it's still IRC that doesn't carry the information :-(
[02:12] <lifeless> anyhow, you'll need to say again, s..> t á d<... wasn't helpful for me
[02:13] <bignose> doesn't 'bzr send -r thread:' do the same thing? (i.e. I thought the end-of-range defaulted to the tip)
[02:14] <lifeless> unfortunately different commands behave differently
[02:14] <lifeless> this has been discussed and is not resolved
[02:15] <SamB> bignose: what do you mean, "preserving"?
[02:15] <SamB> bignose: are you proposing that each message should have a Charset: header?
[02:16] <bignose> SamB: I'm proposing that a text medium should declare the encoding of its content, yes.
[02:17] <SamB> now, having "use UTF-8" in the RFC would be nice, I admit ;-)
[02:17]  * emmajane waves
[02:21] <ub3rst4r> hi, does anyone know how i can have my launchpad bzr code mirrored onto sourceforge?
[02:32] <lifeless> ub3rst4r: well you can probably just push there
[02:32] <lifeless> I don't know much/anything about the sourceforge bzr support; it would be nice if the sourceforge folk were to hang out here :)
[03:08]  * igc lunch
[03:12] <lifeless> kfogel: ping
[03:19] <poolie> hi all
[03:22]  * emmajane waves to poolie
[03:22] <emmajane> but then opts for sleep.
[03:23] <poolie> hi there
[03:23] <poolie> koalas soon i promise
[03:23] <emmajane> YAY!
[03:23] <poolie> i had some apparent jaunty usb failures
[03:23] <poolie> but i have them downloaded now :)
[03:23] <emmajane> poolie, stupid ubuntu. ;)
[03:23] <poolie> heh
[03:23] <poolie> apparently koala photos will be better supported next time
[03:23] <emmajane> gettin' between me and koala pictures!
[03:24]  * emmajane chuckles.
[03:25] <emmajane> aight. sleep time!
[03:25]  * emmajane waves
[04:04] <lifeless> lunching
[04:08] <awmcclain> What's the command to get the revision number of the working revision? (NOT the revisions at head like revno gives)
[04:09] <spiv> awmcclain: I'm not sure what you mean by "the working revision" if not head?  Oh, is this a checkout?
[04:09] <awmcclain> spiv: Yes.
[04:10] <spiv> Hmm, I'm not sure if there is a command that does that.
[04:11] <awmcclain> Really?
[04:11] <awmcclain> Ug.
[04:11] <spiv> There certainly should be...
[04:11]  * awmcclain cries
[04:12]  * AfC freely admits he doesn't have a clue what is being probed here.
[04:19] <spiv> awmcclain: FWIW, the code to get that revision number would be something like from bzrlib.bzrdir import BzrDir; tree = BzrDir.open('.').open_workingtree(); revid = tree.get_parent_ids()[0]; print tree.branch.revision_id_to_revno(revid)
[04:19] <lifeless> awmcclain: bzr log --show-ids -r -5.. | grep -C `bzr revision-info`, or something like that
[04:20] <spiv> lifeless: ooh, tricksy.
[04:20] <lifeless> :>
[04:24] <lifeless> spiv: I'm assuming no meetup today; I'm nearly done with commit, so will either be tackling one of the interesting network bits, or <dunno> tomorrow
[04:25] <spiv> Hmm, actually, I think log still uses the tip from branch rather than the tree?
[04:25] <lifeless> yes
[04:28] <spiv> We really should have a tree: revspec or something.
[04:29] <lifeless> eys
[04:47] <spm> not sure if I'd class this as a bug, per-se, but was a tad unexpected: Have a .bzr dir that is chmod 750 (some of the files controlled are sensitive). did a bzr upgrade and wound up with backup.bzr being 755. Strictly that was also the umask (0022), but my gut feel is the right thing would be to maintain permissions. ???
[04:48] <lifeless> spm: if you want it fixed, file a bug :)
[04:48] <spm> lifeless: heh. yes. I nearly did, but thought I'd canvass opinion first. :-)
[05:06] <poolie> i'd agree it's a bug
[05:46] <kfogel> lifeless: pong
[05:52] <lifeless> so David Reitter is someone in the emacs community?
[05:56] <BasicOSX> lifeless:  bug 305006 I haven't release 1.13.1 how did Dorin get it to report the bug? Any idea?
[05:57] <BasicOSX> nm, except for the doc changes it's in lp
[06:03] <kfogel> lifeless: the name doesn't ring a bell, actually
[06:03] <lifeless> BasicOSX: I think they mean 1.13rc1
[06:03] <lifeless> BasicOSX: which doesn't have all of 1.13.0 :P
[06:04] <lifeless> kfogel: oh, well he's playing with emacs and filing a cluster of bugs
[06:04] <BasicOSX> :-(
[06:04] <lifeless> some of which are flailing-new-user stuff and some are good
[06:04] <lifeless> I was hoping someone in the same TZ and community could lend a hand
[06:05] <kfogel> lifeless: filing launchpad bugs or bzr bugs?
[06:05] <lifeless> bzr bugs
[06:16] <lifeless> ciao for the day
[06:51] <poolie> night lifeless
[06:58] <vila> hi all
[07:01]  * igc dinner
[07:03] <poolie> hello vila
[07:14] <BasicOSX> bug 347130
[07:14] <BasicOSX> poolie:  that's bug that breaks non-interactive test suite, looks to be related to another bug on how the VISUAL vs EDITOR is choosen
[07:26] <poolie> BasicOSX: thanks
[07:26] <poolie> interesting
[07:27] <poolie> so it fails when VISUAL is set and EDITOR is unset?
[07:27] <BasicOSX> I had other words, but interesting fit it too
[07:27] <poolie> :)
[07:27] <BasicOSX> yes
[07:27] <BasicOSX> if EDITOR is set and VISUAL unset we are ok
[07:31] <BasicOSX> I keep typing bzr-get update bzr, apt, sheesh
[07:44] <vila> BasicOSX: :)
[07:50] <poolie> ok
[07:50] <poolie> relatively early night for me
[07:51] <poolie> BasicOSX: bug 347130 is probably pretty easy but if it will still take a little while
[07:51] <poolie> so i'm not going to do it right now
[07:52] <poolie> thanks for filing it though
[07:52] <BasicOSX> poolie:  np, unset VISUAL and I'm good
[07:52] <BasicOSX> I'm adding notes to bzr.dev releasing so I don't forget
[10:16] <jelmer> mwhudson: hi
[10:26] <gmarselis> hi
[10:26] <gmarselis> i'm getting these wierd ssh auth failures on the 6th minute of the hour
[10:26] <gmarselis> and only then
[10:27] <gmarselis> http://rafb.net/p/GprFbL61.html
[10:27] <gmarselis> i can't wrap my mind around it to find a starting point
[10:28] <gmarselis> halp!
[10:38] <gmarselis> guess everybody's asleep
[11:18] <apw> does bzr in jaunty now do notifications?
[11:20] <james_w> bzr-gtk does
[12:09] <jdobrien> I would like to show the history of a file that has only had renames and no content changes, how can i do this with bzr?
[12:12] <SamB> did you try bzr log already?
[12:17] <james_w> jdobrien: does "bzr log -v filename" do what you want?
[12:21] <jdobrien> james_w: that works...thanks
[12:21] <james_w> cool
[12:22] <james_w> (the -v is just to show what changed (renames etc) it's slower, but it helps to make sure you know what you are getting)
[12:48] <cammoblammo> Hmm, bzr seems to freeze when trying to pull the bzr repo:
[12:49] <cammoblammo> It get stuck at [#|                  ] http >    508kB     4kB/s | Pull phase:Copying revision texts:Copied record 17/288
[12:49] <cammoblammo> Is this my end, the server or something in the middle?
[12:50] <Peng_> cammoblammo: I only have some guesses, but... http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/? What version of bzr are you running? Got a proxy?
[12:52] <cammoblammo> Peng_: Yes, that's the URL. I'm running 1.14dev, no proxy. Hmm, I seem to be having a similar issue with another project that uses bzr.
[12:57] <cammoblammo> Ah well, it's bed time now. I'll try again in the morning, that magical time when bugs disappear and computing nirvana awaits.
[12:57] <Peng_> cammoblammo: Good night. :)
[12:59] <cammoblammo> :-)
[13:00] <CBro2007_> am reading up on Bzr and I am very interested in the "Decentralized with human gatekeeper model"
[13:00] <CBro2007_> was wondering if there were any examples of how to set this up?
[13:01] <bob2> did you check out the user manual?
[13:01] <CBro2007_> yeah did
[13:01] <CBro2007_> can I run you through some of my doubts bob2
[13:02] <CBro2007_> ? :)
[13:02] <bob2> you can ask the channel, someone might know :)
[13:02] <CBro2007_> ok you asked for it
[13:02] <CBro2007_> so say I was the gatekeeper and I set up a repository and setup a TRUNK or Main Branch and multiple branches for each developer
[13:03] <CBro2007_> now how do developers manage to update their own branches from a. The MAIN branch or b. Each other's branches directly?
[13:04] <CBro2007_> and when they are done completing a feature that needs merging into the MAIN branch.. how do they submit a Merge request?
[13:04] <bob2> they can merge from each other or the trunk
[13:04] <bob2> best to stick with the trunk if possible
[13:04] <bob2> they can send you a merge request or a url for you to merge from - the end result is pretty much the same
[13:05] <CBro2007_> ok so you are saying I should make it a process to only allow features updated when they are in the main branch?
[13:06] <CBro2007_> so developers cannot share code between each other's branches without going through the main branch and hence a merge request process?
[13:06] <CBro2007_> is that correct bob2
[13:06] <CBro2007_> ?
[13:06] <bob2> they can, if they want
[13:06] <bob2> it might make merging harder for you
[13:07] <CBro2007_> ok I think I like the process where they submit their merges to the MAIN branch from which we can all UPDATE our branches
[13:07] <CBro2007_> what about the "request to merge"?
[13:08] <CBro2007_> Are you talking about them PUBLISHING their branches on Launchpad and then we can merge from there?
[13:08] <CBro2007_> can they not send me an e-mail using that bzr send feature or something?
[13:08] <CBro2007_> just wondering what is the better option?
[13:08] <bob2> no, I'm not
[13:09] <CBro2007_> ok what you saying then ? :)
[13:09] <bob2> they can send you a merge request (with bzr send), or they can just send you a url to pull from
[13:09] <bob2> I guess they could send you a lp url, if you're using lp
[13:09] <CBro2007_> we are all working on the same machine
[13:09] <CBro2007_> but different UNIX accounts
[13:09] <CBro2007_> so I can really merge between branches locally
[13:10] <bob2> that's just a particularily boring url then :)
[13:10] <CBro2007_> what do u mean?
[13:10] <CBro2007_> Bundle Buggy was mentioned in that model to help review the changes etc
[13:11] <bob2> nevermind
[13:11] <CBro2007_> I was thinking when a developer is ready he might send me this e-mail that shows all his changes etc... and I can code review it before I merge it into our MAIN branch
[13:11] <bob2> sure
[13:11] <CBro2007_> yeah but how does bzr help me do this?
[13:12] <CBro2007_> Can you give me an idea?
[13:12] <bob2> I don't know what you mean
[13:12] <bob2> the developer can send you an email, telling you which branch they would like you to merge
[13:12] <bob2> you merge it, run the tests, look at the diff, then commit it if you're happy
[13:13] <bob2> you can use bundlebuddy to help with that stage, if you like, but it's not essential
[13:13] <CBro2007_> Hmmm
[13:13] <CBro2007_> bundlebuddy helps in which stage sorry - merge, diff or test ?
[13:14] <CBro2007_> dont you think I should do a diff before I perform a merge?
[13:14] <bob2> keeping track of merge requests
[13:14] <CBro2007_> :)
[13:14] <bob2> of course you should
[13:14] <bob2> 'bzr merge' just changes your working copy
[13:14] <bob2> the merge is not commited until you commit
[13:15] <CBro2007_> ok and the bzr merge command is issues in the TARGET branch you want to merge into yeah?
[13:15] <bob2> yes
[13:15] <bob2> bzr help merge
[13:15] <CBro2007_> I suppose I got to look at the merge command
[13:15] <CBro2007_> hahah yeah
[13:15] <CBro2007_> I think I will setup a dummy project and test all these scenarios out on them
[13:16] <CBro2007_> oh and one more thing... say I just merged a developer's branch into the TRUNK or MAIN branch... and want to update my branch with his changes... is that another merge from my branch?
[13:17] <CBro2007_> wondering if my own changes that I am working on will get affected in this situation?
[13:17] <CBro2007_> and how BZR deals with conflict resolutions?
[13:18] <bob2> if YOURBRANCH was up to date with TRUNK before you merged SOMEONEELSESBRANCH into TRUNK, then you can jus do a 'bzr pull' in YOURBRANCH to bring it up to date
[13:18] <bob2> it drops conflict markers in the files, and leaves the this, other (and sometimes base) versions for you to merge manually
[13:19] <CBro2007_> ok
[13:19] <CBro2007_> man have to play around with it now.
[13:19] <CBro2007_> :)
[13:19] <CBro2007_> cheers bob2
[13:19] <CBro2007_> thanks
[13:19] <bob2> no worries
[13:20] <CBro2007_> bob2: last one :)
[13:21] <CBro2007_> should I be creating ONE repository or multiple repositories with one for each developer?
[13:21] <CBro2007_> which one is a better model you reckon?
[13:21] <bob2> depends
[13:21] <CBro2007_> I was initially thinking... one repository - multiple projects - each project with multiple branches
[13:22] <bob2> you can't (easily) do access control within a repository
[13:22] <CBro2007_> ok
[13:22] <CBro2007_> so if I wanted to be the only one who could COMMIT changes to the MAIN branch.. is that just with UNIX permissions?
[13:23] <CBro2007_> or is there a way of doing it in bzr?
[13:23] <CBro2007_> setting up some sort of roles in bzr
[13:23] <bob2> unix permissions
[13:23] <bob2> but as above
[13:23] <CBro2007_> k
[13:23] <bob2> I'm sure there's some addon to do something fancier
[13:24] <CBro2007_> so u think its better to have separate repositories for each developer and then one for MAIN repository holding the GOLD copy for the project?
[13:24] <CBro2007_> that make sense?
[13:26] <Peng_> The point of a shared repository is to prevent disk space from being wasted when you have multiple branches of a project. You should use one repo per project, unless you need more for access control.
[13:27] <Peng_> (In that case, if everyone has bzr 1.6 or newer, using stacked branches will help.)
[13:30] <CBro2007_> Peng: so now if I have a single repository then how do I implement access control?
[13:30] <CBro2007_> how do I stop other developers to have READ ONLY access to the MAIN branch?
[13:31] <CBro2007_> so they cannot COMMIT their changes directly without a review process
[13:31] <bob2> just use single branches
[13:31] <bob2> and no repository
[13:31] <CBro2007_> I thought I always have to setup a repository ?
[13:32] <bob2> no
[13:33] <CBro2007_> so bob2 ... are you saying I just setup directories in their account homes where I can do a bzr init and then bzr branch?
[13:33] <CBro2007_> so there is no need for a repository
[13:33] <bob2> yes
[13:33] <bob2> well, you'll do init once
[13:33] <bob2> then branch all the rest from that
[13:33] <CBro2007_> you think it would be a good idea to just create a different UNIX user for the MAIN branch?
[13:33] <CBro2007_> say something like bzruser
[13:33] <CBro2007_> :)
[13:34] <bob2> no
[13:34] <CBro2007_> ok
[13:34] <CBro2007_> just wondering what will happen when I merge the developer's files to this main repository... it would have their owner names on it ?
[13:34] <bob2> you could, but it seems like overengineering to begin with
[13:35] <bob2> you mean branch, not repository, I think
[13:35] <bob2> yes
[13:35] <bob2> I think you should just have a go
[13:35] <bob2> make a simple branch, then make some other branches from it and try merging, and using 'bzr log'
[13:35] <CBro2007_> yeah... its just the access control that I am worried about to be honest
[13:35] <bob2> why?  it's simple
[13:36] <CBro2007_> I am worried that after merging the file might have the developer's ownership.. say I ADDED new files from his branch to MAIN... then I am pretty sure he can anytime go straight to the MAIN branch and modify stuff
[13:37] <bob2> no
[13:39] <CBro2007_> k let me test it out... will let you know if I have any dramas then
[13:58] <persia> Good day.  I've a directory that contains a heap of branches.  I'm curious if there's a handy way to query the default pull location for each of these all-at-once, rather than checking individually.
[14:01] <Peng_> persia: You mean from the shell or what? I'd probably just use something evil with find and grep on .bzr/branch/branch.conf (.bzr/branch/parent on really old branches), or hack something together with bzrlib.
[14:02] <persia> Peng, From the shell would be ideal.  I was just about to hack something up with for and grep, but thought I'd ask to see if someone else already wrote a plugin first :)
[14:05] <Peng_> Ah.
[14:09] <persia> Peng, Thanks anyway.  `for i in */.bzr/branch/branch.conf; do echo -n $i:; grep push_location $i; done | grep 7Epersia` does what I wanted :)
[14:16] <jam> vila: good morning
[14:16]  * persia decides `for i in */.bzr/branch/branch.conf; do grep push_location $i > /dev/null && echo $i | cut -d/ -f1; done` is even more useful, and wanders off, happy.
[14:16] <jam> igc: just a quick check if you are still around. I was going to work on iteritems if nothing else came up, but I wanted to make sure you had not done it
[14:16] <vila> jam: Hi jamm quick call ?
[14:17] <jam> hey vila, give me ~5 minutes, but yeah
[14:17] <vila> ok
[14:24] <jam> vila: I'm ready for my phone call, Mr. Ladeuil
[14:25] <jam> :)
[14:25] <vila> Was grabbing the phone already :)
[14:44] <hunmonk> does anybody know if bzr 1.6 and 1.9 are compatible?  i have a repo that i'm needing to move back and forth from two machines that have those versions installed...
[14:51] <Peng_> hunmonk: Bazaar is more or less always compatible. Just use disk formats that both versions support (i.e. not 1.9).
[14:52] <CBro2007_> guys if someone sent me a request to merge their changes for a certain rev no... would I be able to do a diff and check my trunk vs the rev no commit copy in their local branch?
[14:53] <CBro2007_> or should I first do the merge for the revno they supply and then do a diff before I commit to trunk?
[14:53] <CBro2007_> Peng: any suggestions as to what is the better approach?
[14:54] <Peng_> CBro2007_: I'm not fully awake and don't understand what you said. :P
[14:54] <CBro2007_> great
[14:54] <CBro2007_> :)
[14:54] <CBro2007_> say I am the gatekeeper for the trunk copy or MAIN branch
[14:54] <CBro2007_> you are a developer who just completed a feature
[14:55] <CBro2007_> you want me to MERGE a given rev no from your branch... not the latest one
[14:55] <CBro2007_> do I first do a DIFF to see what is being merged ?
[14:55] <CBro2007_> Or do I first merge it and then do a Diff later?
[14:56] <Peng_> CBro2007_: I'd do the latter. You can always "bzr revert" if you don't like it.
[14:56] <CBro2007_> so bzr revert goes ahead and removed the merge?
[14:56] <CBro2007_> or reverts to the last committed copy?
[14:56] <Peng_> Um.
[14:57] <CBro2007_> Um?
[14:57] <CBro2007_> :)
[14:58] <CBro2007_> I suppose if I first do a merge then there will be nothing to diff against?
[14:59] <CBro2007_> or I can probably diff against the LATEST COMMITTED branch
[14:59] <Peng_> "bzr revert" reverts any uncommitted changes, including uncommitted merges.
[14:59] <CBro2007_> copy
[14:59] <CBro2007_> hmmm
[14:59] <Peng_> FYI, you can do "bzr merge --preview" to show what doing a merge would do.
[14:59] <CBro2007_> ah thats helpful
[14:59] <CBro2007_> ok cool
[15:00] <CBro2007_> thanks
[15:01] <Peng_> Like I said, I would personally do "bzr merge" first, diff, fix conflicts, etc., and commit, or "bzr revert" if I don't like it, but you should do whatever works for you.
[15:01] <CBro2007_> how do conflicts show?
[15:01] <CBro2007_> does it come up in the merge command?
[15:02] <Peng_> "bzr merge" will yell at you, and put conflict markers in the files, and create .{THIS,OTHER,BASE} files. "bzr status" will show it as well.
[15:02] <CBro2007_> ok
[15:02] <CBro2007_> thanks
[15:03] <Peng_> Try it and see. :D
[15:03] <CBro2007_> don't think that should be the case most of the times as we will be hopefully working on different features
[15:03] <CBro2007_> but you never know
[15:03] <Peng_> CBro2007_: Bazaar will also refuse to commit conflicted files.
[15:03] <Peng_> So it's really hard to miss. :P
[15:03] <CBro2007_> will try and commit the copies in trunk before any merges etc
[15:20] <CBro2007_> Hey Peng_
[15:21] <CBro2007_> I tried this.... I added a new file from the developer's branch and did a bzr add then commit
[15:21] <CBro2007_> then from the trunk I went :
[15:21] <CBro2007_> bzr merge  -r 6 /home/dev/dcrepo/ --preview
[15:22] <CBro2007_> I don't see the NEW file in my working directory after this merge
[15:22] <CBro2007_> do you know why that is?
[15:22] <CBro2007_> I am trying to get a certain revision number from his branch.... as he has done more commits AFTER rev 6
[15:22] <CBro2007_> anyone got any ideas why merge doesn't work here?
[15:26] <Peng_> CBro2007_: "merge --preview" doesn't change your working tree. It's just a preview.
[15:26] <CBro2007_> yeah just realized that now
[15:26] <CBro2007_> :)
[15:26] <CBro2007_> sorry
[15:26] <Peng_> Okay.
[15:26] <CBro2007_> thought it does the merge + gives a preview
[15:28] <CBro2007_> Peng_: I also noticed that you have to ADD new files with bzr add
[15:28] <CBro2007_> so then i am thinking I will have to make it a rule that developers check bzr status
[15:28] <CBro2007_> and then do adds etc
[15:28] <Peng_> Checking bzr status and bzr diff before committing is always a good idea.
[15:29] <CBro2007_> yep
[15:38] <CBro2007_> Peng_: If developers wanted to UPDATE their sandboxes or branch with the TRUNK copy how would they go about doing that?
[15:38] <CBro2007_> with the Merge again?
[15:39] <Peng_> CBro2007_: Yeah.
[15:40] <CBro2007_> whats the PULL option there for?
[15:40] <CBro2007_> would that be something they should be using?
[15:40] <Peng_> Erm.
[15:40] <CBro2007_> or just the normal merge?
[15:40] <Peng_> "Merge" is there to merge changes from another branch into your branch. "Pull" is there to update your copy of another branch.
[15:40] <CBro2007_> I am not sure I understand the --pull option
[15:41] <CBro2007_> is pull a seperate command?
[15:41] <CBro2007_> because the local branches are really copies of the TRUNK branch
[15:41] <Peng_> There's a "bzr pull" command and a "--pull" option to the merge command.
[16:22] <aelkner> does anyone know how to find out what version of a branch is actually installed on a machine?
[16:23] <aelkner> when i do bzr revno or bzr log, it shows me what's in the repository
[16:23] <aelkner> but i haven't, nor do i want to at this time, done a bzr up
[16:24] <aelkner> but it want to figure out which version of the code is actually there
[16:24] <aelkner> does anyone know how i can determine that?
[16:25] <exarkun> 'bzr version-info'?
[16:25] <aelkner> that worked, thanks
[16:26] <aelkner> what's the intention with the difference between revno and version-info?
[16:26] <Kinnison> mmm interesting. I never knew of that particular difference
[16:26]  * Kinnison ponders integrating that into his prompt
[16:27] <aelkner> is there a version of bzr log that takes into account the currently loaded revision number?
[16:28] <aelkner> ir do i need to do bzr log -r 'revision number returned from bzr version-info'
[16:28] <exarkun> bzr log -r `bzr version-info --custom --template="{revno}"` maybe
[16:30] <aelkner> that seems hostel to the user, doesn't it?
[16:30] <aelkner> i mean, shouldn't the commands work against what is actually on the machine?
[16:30] <aelkner> rather than what's in the repository?
[16:30] <Kinnison> revno talks about the branch
[16:31] <Kinnison> Where version-info talks about the working tree
[16:31] <aelkner> but bzr log only talks about the branch
[16:32] <aelkner> wouldn't it be nice to have one that talks about the working tree?
[16:32] <Kinnison> Given you can know the version numbers you care about, what are you trying to achieve?
[16:33] <aelkner> it's not that i can't achieve what it need, using the version-info command to get the revision number
[16:33] <aelkner> it's just that it would be great if there was a command that gave you what bzr log gives you
[16:34] <aelkner> but only up to the revision number that the working tree has
[16:34] <Kinnison> Oh I see
[16:34] <Kinnison> wtlog () { bzr log -r1..$(bzr version-info --custom --template="{revno}") "$@"; }
[16:34] <Kinnison> something like that?
[16:35] <aelkner> i'm not sure what you mean by that
[16:36] <aelkner> i know that's a shell script
[16:36] <aelkner> but i don't know how you mean that it would be used
[16:36] <aelkner> if one is at a command prompt
[16:36] <Kinnison> oh it creates a shell function "wtlog" which when called, automatically gives bzr log the right -r1..blah to only give you the log for the working tree
[16:37] <aelkner> issuing the command bzr log --working_tree would be nice to be able to do
[16:38] <Peng_> Better would be a revision spec, so you could do e.g. "bzr log -r tree:".
[16:42] <aelkner> it just seems unfortunate that the default commands would tell the user about the repository and not the working tree
[16:42] <Peng_> aelkner: The branch, not the repository.
[16:42] <aelkner> sorry, true enough
[16:43] <aelkner> s/repository/branch for my previous comment
[16:45] <aelkner> if one want to know about the branch and not the working tree, i could see forcing them to supply the branch url
[16:45] <aelkner> but then again, others may find that to be a hassle
[16:45] <aelkner> so i guess it's a trade-off
[17:02] <aelkner> Peng_: i sinned and failed to mention that i was dealing with a light checkout and not a branch
[17:03] <aelkner> with branches, bzr revno and log DO show the version that's on the machine
[17:03] <aelkner> and not what
[17:03] <aelkner> and not in the branch in the repository
[17:04] <Peng_> They always show the branch tip. It's just that with lightweight checkouts, the branch tip and the current revision of the working tree are often different.
[17:04] <Peng_> They can be in regular branches though.
[18:35] <bitmonk> howdy, i'm trying to branch via bzr+ssh protocol, with bzr 1.6.1 at both ends, and i get an error regarding rich-root support, because 'bzr branch' seems to be creating a KnitPack.  what can i do to avoid this?
[18:41] <bitmonk> there is a bug that the message could be clearer, but i'm not sure i need that fix to move on ;)
[18:45] <Peng_> bitmonk: Are you trying to branch into a shared repository?
[18:47] <bitmonk> Peng_: nope, just from one into a deployment location.
[18:48] <Peng_> bitmonk: Well, you could create a rich-root repo and branch into it (e.g. "bzr init-repo --rich-root-pack"), or create a standalone rich-root branch and pull into it (e.g. "bzr init --rich-root-pack").
[18:48] <Peng_> bitmonk: "bzr branch" should be less brain-damaged, of course. I don't know if it's been improved in more recent releases.
[18:49] <bitmonk> yah i was thinking along those lines, i haven't seen this before, oddly.  i just created a new shared repo on the server and branched from another shared repo to start a new project based on another's code.  then, on dev server, tried to branch the new location right alongside a branch of the old.
[18:50] <bitmonk> ah it just occur to me, i made the other branches from http and just push over ssh.
[18:50] <bitmonk> thanks for help, maybe i will get some time and i can help test and improve further.
[18:52] <Peng_> bitmonk: FWIW, as of current bzr.dev, "bzr branch" is smart enough to create a branch in the right format, at least locally.
[18:52] <bitmonk> i'll try to find a place to test that, thanks, and look forward to a new stable release.
[18:53] <bitmonk> seems to me it must be the protocol handler in this case, because i'm not running any kind of smart server, just straight apache access to the flat repo files.
[18:53] <bitmonk> but, eh, i'm full of conjecture.
[18:54] <mwhudson> jelmer: hello
[19:04] <stianse_> I have installed two plugins that both override/decorate the commit command. But it seems like only one of the can be active.
[19:05] <stianse_> Is it supported to have two plugins overriding the same command? How?
[19:05] <stianse_> Both plugins use "commands.register_command(cmd_commit, decorate=True)"
[19:15] <mtaylor> if I do this: bzr branch lp:drizzle/mordred  ... is there any reason it couldn't default to pulling over HTTP, or to falling back to http if ssh auth fails?
[19:15] <mtaylor> I don't actually need ssh auth to work for that branch to succeed, after all
[19:19] <Peng_> With how everything is structured, I bet that would be difficult to do.
[19:19] <jelmer> mwhudson: you were looking for me yesterday?
[19:20] <Peng_> Hmm, it would be neat if there was an "lp+http" URL scheme though.
[19:21] <bitmonk> does lp have branches that require authentication to read?
[19:21] <jam> bitmonk: yes
[19:21] <LarstiQ> Peng_: hmm, does the lp directory service have any say in retrying?
[19:22] <jam> bitmonk: they are called "private" branches, I know there are a couple projects that make use of them, though I think it is done on a per-project basis
[19:23] <mwhudson> jelmer: still am :)
[19:23] <mwhudson> jelmer: why does lp:dulwich have completely new, bzr-git-ish, history?
[19:25] <mwhudson> LarstiQ: i don't think to, the directory service basically just gets the chance to turn one url into another
[19:25] <mwhudson> aiui
[19:25] <mwhudson> well, "url"
[19:28] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: feh
[19:28] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: although, since it isn't storing the unexpanded form right now, it doesn't matter too much
[19:30] <jelmer> mwhudson: ah
[19:30] <jelmer> mwhudson: it was dpushed into git
[19:30] <jelmer> mwhudson: and so the revision ids changed as bzr-git doesn't do round-tripping yet
[19:32] <mwhudson> jelmer: any particular reason?
[19:32] <jelmer> mwhudson: for dpushing into git?
[19:32] <mwhudson> yes
[19:32] <jelmer> mwhudson: cooperation with the pyrite folks who are interested in using and hacking on dulwich rather than on their own homegrown code
[19:32] <mwhudson> ah, ok
[19:34] <mwhudson> jelmer: so i need to upgrade the version of bzr-git in launchpad's source code, because of the _lock_count thing in bzr 1.13
[19:34] <mwhudson> jelmer: will bzr-git trunk, dulwich trunk and bzr 1.13 work together ok?
[19:34] <jelmer> mwhudson: yeah
[19:34] <jelmer> mwhudson: bzr-git trunk should support bzr.dev and 1.13 at the moment
[19:34] <mwhudson> jelmer: ok
[19:34] <mwhudson> thanks
[19:37] <mwhudson> jelmer: i'll just have to smile sweetly at the OSAs to get them to run pull --overwrite a couple of times :)
[19:39] <jelmer> mwhudson: whoops
[19:39] <jelmer> mwhudson: sorry, I wasn't aware this was causing that much more work for you
[19:39] <jelmer> mwhudson: at least it shouldn't happen again in the future
[19:39] <mwhudson> jelmer: no worries
[19:40] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: how are git import plans faring?
[19:40] <mwhudson> jelmer: it's just a shame that i only noticed after you'd gone to bed last night
[19:40] <mwhudson> LarstiQ: mostly wrangling dependencies :)
[19:40] <LarstiQ> mwhudson: I see :)
[19:41] <mwhudson> LarstiQ: the code to do the import is mostly written, there's some ui work
[19:42] <mwhudson> but that shouldn't be hard
[19:42] <mwhudson> so maybe it'll be done for the april rollout
[19:43] <LarstiQ> cool
[19:43] <jelmer> mwhudson: just curious, do you handle git branches specially or is it just like mirrorring a native Bazaar branch ?
[19:44] <mwhudson> jelmer: nope, "pull"
[19:44] <jelmer> ah, neat
[19:44] <mwhudson> will do the same for bzr-svn sooner or later
[19:45] <mwhudson> (probably we'll do something where new imports use bzr-svn and old ones continue to use cscvs)
[19:46] <jelmer> mwhudson: ah, neat
[19:50] <mwhudson> jelmer: how's bzr-svn 0.5 working?
[19:50] <mwhudson> ^ out
[19:50]  * LarstiQ needs to file a bug on bzr-svn, sigh
[19:51] <LarstiQ> which means making a test repo to reproduce the bug we're seeing on a proprietary repo
[19:51] <LarstiQ> jelmer: I'm not sighing about bzr-svn, honest! :)
[19:54] <jelmer> LarstiQ: is this the bug we were debugging earlier?
[19:54] <jelmer> mwhudson: 0.5 is working out pretty well
[19:55] <LarstiQ> jelmer: nope!
[19:55] <LarstiQ> jelmer: same project though
[19:56] <LarstiQ> jelmer: but now it's push failing with an assert
[19:57] <jelmer> mwhudson: I'm thinking of doing a 1.0 quite soon (perhaps together with 1.15)
[19:58] <jelmer> LarstiQ: is there a bug open yet? I might be able to fix something based on the assertion..
[19:59] <brink> I hate to ask, but is there a way to convert a bazaar repository to git?   I've tried the latest tailor, but it appears to be broken.
[20:01] <luks> bzr fast-export | git fast-import ?
[20:01] <mwhudson> jelmer: cool
[20:01] <LarstiQ> jelmer: nafaik. I'll look through the bugs. (Of course, it's never me but always a colleague who triggers bugs)
[20:02] <brink> luks:  Do you know where I can get the fast-export plugin?
[20:02] <LarstiQ> brink: try bzr-git and hack on it if it doesn't meet your requirements? ;)
[20:02] <brink> larstiQ: bzr-git would if it worked.  It crashes and burns too.
[20:03] <LarstiQ> brink: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPlugins in general, lp:bzr-fastimport in specific iirc
[20:04] <newz2000> hi, I accidently added some files I didn't want to add. I haven't commited yet though, can I un-add them?
[20:05] <jelmer> brink: any chance you can file a bug against bzr-git if you didn't get it to work?
[20:05] <LarstiQ> newz2000: bzr rm (--keep or --force) the files in question
[20:05] <newz2000> ah, thanks
[20:09] <brink> jelmer:  Oops.  It was git-bzr that crashes and burns.  I haven't tried bzr-git.     Can bzr-git actually convert a bzr repo to a git repo?
[20:11] <thumper> morning
[20:11] <LarstiQ> there is a git-bzr?
[20:11] <jelmer> brink: yeah, although it will only work for relatively small branches atm
[20:12] <jelmer> brink: and you need a patch for bzr to push from bzr into git
[20:12] <LarstiQ> Pieter: aha! :)
[20:13] <Pieter> hmm?
[20:13] <brink> jelmer:  So I just pull bzr-git and installed it.   But bazaar tells me it is unable to load git from the plugins directory.
[20:14] <mwhudson> brink: you need bzr 1.13
[20:14] <jelmer> brink: in particular for being able to push into git you need bzr.dev and my dpush patch posted to the list yesterday
[20:15] <LarstiQ> Pieter: I wondered who that pieter of git-bzr was.
[20:16] <Pieter> ah :)
[20:16] <brink> jelmer:  I'm at version 1.2.   I'll update it.
[20:30] <brink> jelmer:  bzr branch http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev bzr.dev  give me an internal error.   That's after installing the latest bzr1.13.
[20:30]  * LarstiQ blinks
[20:30] <LarstiQ> brink: could you pastebin that?
[20:32] <brink> jelmer: http://pastebin.com/m30ee2bd7
[20:33] <LarstiQ> brink: ok, bzr-git shouldn't mess with other bzr invocations
[20:34] <LarstiQ> brink: either install dulwich (which you'll need for git interaction later on) or disable the bzr-git plugin momentarily (usually accomplished by moving the plugin away)
[20:38]  * jelmer back in ~40 min
[20:47] <LarstiQ> brink: did that help?
[20:49] <brink> LarstiQ:  I was able to download the latest development release by moving bzr-git and I installed Dulwich.   Not sure what to do next though.
[20:51] <LarstiQ> brink: let me dig up jelmer's patch
[20:52] <LarstiQ> brink: I suppose he meant http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/bzr/request/%3C49C6A5B7.1050105%40vernstok.nl%3E
[20:53] <LarstiQ> brink: so, in bzr.dev: `bzr merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:54] <LarstiQ> ok
[20:55] <LarstiQ> brink: in case you missed it, 21:53:02 < LarstiQ> brink: so, in bzr.dev: `bzr merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:59] <brink> LarstiQ:  It seems to have merged and installed successfully.   Do you know the command to try the conversion by any chance?
[21:02] <LarstiQ> brink: `bzr dpush path/to/git/branch` I think
[21:03] <LarstiQ> brink: but this guess isn't hindered by any actual experience with bzr-git ;)
[21:03] <LarstiQ> hmm, that sentence works better in Dutch
[21:04] <brink> LarstiQ:  It seems my version of Dulwich is too old.  http://pastebin.com/m3050c87f
[21:07] <LarstiQ> hmm
[21:07] <LarstiQ> brink: http://samba.org/~jelmer/dulwich/ doesn't list any later release
[21:07] <brink> LarstiQ:  Can't say much about the dutch.  I only know how to ask for beer in Dutch.  But that sentence works pretty well in English.  I think I'll use it in the future.
[21:08] <LarstiQ> brink: a useful skill too :)
[21:08] <thumper> Hi people, I've got lots of this type of directory in /tmp bzr-limbo-dxujgp
[21:09] <thumper> I am using some code for preview trees
[21:10] <thumper> is bzr not cleaning up after itself?
[21:10] <brink> LarstiQ: In most languages yes.  But I've never met a dutch bartender who didn't speak fluent English along with several other languages.
[21:11] <LarstiQ> brink: we're bad like that, sorry :/
[21:12] <LarstiQ> thumper: could be, limbo does indeed sound like TreeTransform, employed by preview trees afaik.
[21:12] <brink> LarstiQ:  Well, it still seems polite to make the attempt in the local tongue even if it isn't necessary.
[21:12] <james_w> thumper: your code may not be cleaning up the TreeTransform in all cases
[21:12] <thumper> james_w: what do I need to do?
[21:12] <LarstiQ> brink: I agree, and replying in a different language is something that makes language learning harder for me.
[21:12] <thumper> james_w: the code is lp:mad
[21:12] <james_w>     def finalize(self):
[21:12] <james_w>         """Release the working tree lock, if held, clean up limbo dir.
[21:12] <james_w>         This is required if apply has not been invoked, but can be invoked
[21:12] <james_w>         even after apply.
[21:12] <james_w>         """
[21:13] <LarstiQ> brink: (I'm slowly learning Finnish, their English is also good enough usually)
[21:16] <LarstiQ> brink: since you're running bzr.dev anyway, could you try a development version of dulwich?
[21:16] <thumper> james_w: thanks, I'll add that to my bug report.
[21:17] <james_w> aren't you the author? :-)
[21:17] <thumper> yes
[21:17] <thumper> james_w: but I'm not getting to it right now
[21:17] <thumper> james_w: I have other things to do
[21:17] <james_w> sure
[21:17] <brink> LarstiQ:  I tried.  Bazaar failed with an internal error.   http://pastebin.com/m7e8d920a
[21:21]  * LarstiQ investigats why the os module might not have fdatasync
[21:22] <LarstiQ> brink: are you on !unix?
[21:22] <LarstiQ> brink: ah, OSX
[21:23] <LarstiQ> brink: this reminds me of a Firefox/sqlite thread on fsync
[21:24] <LarstiQ> brink: so, `python -c 'import os; print os.fdatasync'` will fail if I'm right, does `python -c 'import os; print os.fsync'` work?
[21:24] <jelmer> SamB: ping
[21:25] <jelmer> SamB: you'll need a newer dulwich than the last release
[21:25] <jelmer> s/samb/brink/
[21:26] <jelmer> brink: this is all still very much alpha code
[21:26] <LarstiQ> jelmer: he's got that
[21:26] <LarstiQ> jelmer: but fdatasync does not exist on OSX
[21:26] <jelmer> ah, yuck
[21:26] <jelmer> does it have os.fsync() ?
[21:27] <LarstiQ> jelmer: http://book.chinaunix.net/special/ebook/addisonWesley/APUE2/0201433079/ch03lev1sec13.html
[21:27] <LarstiQ> jelmer: it does in C afaik. But it's behaviour is different.
[21:28] <jelmer> LarstiQ:     All four of the platforms described in this book support sync and fsync. However, FreeBSD 5.2.1 and Mac OS X 10.3 do not support fdatasync.
[21:28] <jelmer> LarstiQ: so I guess we should fall back to fsync if fdatasync is not available
[21:28] <LarstiQ> jelmer: see http://shaver.off.net/diary/2008/05/25/fsyncers-and-curveballs/ for example
[21:28] <LarstiQ> jelmer: yeah
[21:29] <stianse_> trying one more time before asking on the mailing list: is it possible to have two plugins installed that decorate the commit command?
[21:29] <LarstiQ> stianse_: yes, but could be tricky.
[21:29] <brink> LarstiQ:  That is right.  It fails.  I'm on OS X.    I also have Linux boxes here too that I could try.
[21:29] <stianse_> LarstiQ: Do you have a possible solution?
[21:29] <LarstiQ> brink: for a short term workaround, that should give better results.
[21:30] <stianse_> It's a shame if I have to choose one between several plugins that  I need
[21:30] <LarstiQ> stianse_: is this a developer or user oriented question?
[21:31] <LarstiQ> stianse_: for the former there has been discussion on the list that might be interesting
[21:31] <stianse_> LarstiQ: I'm writing a new plugin
[21:32] <stianse_> LarstiQ: Perhaps I should try to digg in the archive then. I've not subscribed but I guess I can find some archive on the web
[21:32] <LarstiQ> stianse_: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.bazaar-ng.general/52239/match=decorate+plugin iirc
[21:40] <LarstiQ> jelmer: boohoo, I get a different assert.
[21:42] <stianse_> LarstiQ: Sorry, but I'm not sure if I fully understand. Does that link describe a proposal of changes in bzrlib or a way to solve the problem that works today?
[21:44] <LarstiQ> stianse_: proposal of changes
[21:44] <LarstiQ> stianse_: if you're adding something another plugin isn't also doing, then you should be good for now I think
[21:45] <stianse_> I want to add a new option to the commit command. But I also have the interactive-plugin installed which also adds an option to that command.
[21:46] <stianse_> That does not seems to work.
[21:46] <jelmer> stianse_: the trick is that plugins that decorate don't simply import cmd_commit from bzrlib.builtins
[21:47] <dash> is there a way to get bzr-svn to remember svn passwords?
[21:47] <jelmer> dash: see the bzr-svn FAQ
[21:47] <dash> gasp, a faq
[21:47] <dash> i will do so. :)
[21:48] <dash> hmm. the one at http://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr-svn/FAQ.html ?
[21:49] <jelmer> dash: oh, I removed that from the FAQ, sorry
[21:49] <jelmer> dash: so, basically, you can either make sure Subversion caches the password somehow
[21:49] <bob2> haha
[21:49] <jelmer> dash: and bzr-svn will then also use the password
[21:49] <dash> right, ok
[21:49] <jelmer> dash: or alternatively you should be able to use bzr's infrastructure for stored credentials
[21:51]  * LarstiQ looks at his subvertpy bugreport
[21:51] <poolie> hello LarstiQ, all
[21:51] <LarstiQ> moin poolie :)
[21:51] <poolie> what do you say in dutch?
[21:52] <stianse_> jelmer: Sorry, some english problems:) Do you mean that a plugin should or should import bzrlib.builtins?
[21:52] <stianse_> jelmer: because both plugins I look at now defines a cmd_commit class that inherits from builtins.cmd_commit
[21:52] <LarstiQ> poolie: as a goodmorning greeting?
[21:53] <stianse_> jelmer: both register with commands.register_command(cmd_commit, True)
[21:53] <jelmer> stianse_: I mean how they retrieve the original class they use as base class
[21:53] <stianse_> jelmer: but only one of the plugins are in effect
[21:54] <jelmer> stianse_: what do you mean with "in effect" ?
[21:56] <stianse_> jelmer: I'll explain: the interactive plugin adds the option "-i" to the commit command.
[21:56] <stianse_> jelmer: The bzr-text-checker adds the option "--text-checker-warn-only" to the commit command.
[21:57] <stianse_> jelmer: but only the option from the interactive plugin is valid
[21:57] <jelmer> stianse_: but both extend and register the commit command ?
[21:57] <jelmer> stianse_: and are loaded at the same time?
[21:57] <stianse_> jelmer: yes
[21:58] <jelmer> stianse_: in that case you can't just import cmd_commit
[21:58] <jelmer> stianse_: but you need to do something like bzr-nm does
[21:59] <stianse_> jelmer: ok. perhaps I'll get some tips if I look in the source code of bzr-nm
[22:00] <jelmer> stianse_: bzr branch is at http://people.samba.org/bzr/jelmer/bzr-nm/trunk
[22:02] <stianse_> jelmer: thanks. i'll see if this solves the problem
[22:03] <jelmer> stianse_: IIRC you need to call bzrlib.commands.get_cmd_object
[22:06] <BasicOSX> Someone with op please /topic 1.13.1 released 23 Mar
[22:10] <LarstiQ> BasicOSX: it didn't get through to the announce list yet?
[22:10] <BasicOSX> not yet
[22:15] <joschan> hi, what can i do, i added files that should not be added, but did not yet commit? is there an "unadd"?
[22:15] <spiv> joschan: "bzr remove"
[22:15] <spiv> (you can even "bzr revert")
[22:16] <joschan> thank you!
[22:17] <spiv> BasicOSX: btw, I don't think the topic is protected in this channel
[22:17] <stianse_> jelmer, LarstiQ:  seems like I got it. at least bzr help commit shows options from both plugins
[22:17] <bob2> it is not
[22:17] <BasicOSX> heh. ok
[22:18] <stianse_> jelmer:  used what's in bzr-nm except from adding decorate=True to the register_command call
[22:19] <Glenjamin> is anyone else seeing a lot of "Unable to read from standard input" messages using bzr on windows?
[22:19] <Glenjamin> it doesnt seem to affect anything, but i suspect something somewhere is closing stdin
[22:25] <jelmer> stianse_: cool
[22:27] <stianse_> jelmer: By the way, is this considered a workaround or the correct way of doing it?
[22:28] <stianse_> Because if this should work, both plugins need apply this approach
[22:29] <stianse_> jelmer: I was just wondering if I should commit a patch to for instance the interactive plugin or keep the changes locally if they are hackish
[22:39] <lifeless> hai, I has net
[22:40] <bob2> ph33r
[22:40] <emmajane> \o/ for innnnernets
[22:42] <jelmer> stianse_: no, this is the proper way
[22:45] <lifeless> now, foods
[22:48] <stianse_> jelmer: good to know, thanks
[22:48] <jelmer> stianse_: If you can submit a merge request for bzr-interactive, that would be nice :-)
[22:49]  * igc breakfast
[22:49] <stianse_> jelmer: I was just about to commit actually :)
[23:23] <lifeless> spiv: shall we pair today?
[23:24] <spiv> lifeless: yeah
[23:27] <spiv> lifeless: I don't have much preference about venue
[23:29] <lifeless> spiv: Lynne is out all day, so here works well for me.
[23:32] <spiv> lifeless: ok, I'll head to Epping then.
[23:43] <mwhudson> are there any known sillinesses with push --overwrite over bzr+ssh from bzr.dev to bzr 1.12?
[23:46] <spiv> mwhudson: not off the top of my head (certainly nothing specific to --overwrite springs to mind)
[23:46] <mwhudson> it just says "fetch up to rev {git-v1:f9b8c7c7aef07f8a7c1646f4f87089ebaea537c3}"
[23:46] <mwhudson> in .bzr.log
[23:47] <mwhudson> i guess i should have said -Dhpss
[23:47] <spiv> Yes.
[23:48] <spiv> Or echo "debug_flags = hpss" >> ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
[23:48] <mwhudson> ah right
[23:48]  * mwhudson makes it so, kills and restart
[23:48] <mwhudson> s
[23:49] <mwhudson> spiv: it seems to be appending 100 bytes at a time
[23:50] <mwhudson> 139.403  hpss call w/body: 'append', '/~launchpad-pqm/dulwich/devel/.bzr/repository/upload/x8ptbehx7d83ijydfcqn.pack', '' ('B110\n\n\x1f\x8b\x08\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x02\xff\x95\xcc\xc1\r'...)
[23:50] <mwhudson> 139.403                116 bytes
[23:53] <spiv> mwhudson: I'm fairly sure that's not specific to --overwrite.
[23:53] <mwhudson> spiv: probably not
[23:53] <mwhudson> spiv: it's surely very slow though :)
[23:53] <spiv> mwhudson: Basically, upgrade the server, kthxbye ;)
[23:53] <mwhudson> spiv: not helpful
[23:54] <spiv> mwhudson: is this a stacked branch?
[23:54] <mwhudson> i guess it's too late for anything else now though, given that 1.13 is out\
[23:54] <mwhudson> spiv: don't think so
[23:54] <spiv> Hmm, I guess devel/ is the dev focus, so probably not.


[02:52] <jjesse> !hobbsee
[02:52] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[03:17] <tonyyarusso> haha
[03:39] <posingaspopular> jjesse!
[03:40] <jjesse> posingaspopular: what's going on?
[03:40] <posingaspopular> not much, i haven't talked to you since you came to chicago
[03:40] <posingaspopular> <-paper/crazy night
[03:41] <jjesse> posingaspopular: yeah been busy
[03:42] <posingaspopular> jjesse: are you going to work on the hardy docs, or the ubuntu book again?
[03:43] <jjesse> posingaspopular: hopefully both
[03:43] <posingaspopular> nice. i'd like work on docs lots more this release but we'll see. the next two months are super busy
[03:48] <posingaspopular> i'd like to work some on packaging and more loco type stuff though, so we'll see where the priorites stuff. are you still doing lots of traveling?
[03:54] <jjesse> yeah i am,that's what i do for a living
[03:54] <jjesse> sorry a little slow responding, at UDS Boston
[03:55] <posingaspopular> how is that? i wish i coulda gone but im not a mad hacker like you, you know :(
[08:08] <mdke> morning all
[08:10] <posingaspopular> mdke: morning? it's 3am!
[08:11] <mdke> isn't that morning?
[08:11] <mdke> if it isn't, I don't know what it is
[08:12] <posingaspopular> it's 'night' if my clock is correct
[14:27] <michaelramm> QUESTION: Does working on your team wiki (AlabamaTeam US) count as the wiki experience that the doc team is looking for?
[14:28] <jjesse> michaelramm: i would vote that it does
[14:29] <michaelramm> cool, I would like to start with something like proofreading, but move up to WikiTeam eventually
[17:55] <konputer> Greetings
[17:57] <konputer> I've written some of the meat of a tutorial on how to move from ms exchange to a free mailserver using Maildirs and it happened to be under ubuntu. Do you think that this should be under ubuntu's docs or standalone faq/tutorial?
[17:59] <jjesse> konputer: on the help.ubuntu.com/community wiki would be a great place to start
[17:59] <jjesse> konputer: let me kow when you get it done, would love to read it :P
[17:59] <konputer> Well I'm as of yet not sure where to start
[17:59] <konputer> I have much of the process written down
[18:00] <konputer> but I'm not sure as to whether to write it as qmaiL-specific or just for any mail server that uses maildirs and can authenticate against pam
[18:00] <konputer> the key points that I haven't seen covered online anywhere are how to synch up the exchange tree with users' Maildirs
[18:01] <konputer> and how to get the linux mail server to authenticate against windows domain.
[20:17] <jjesse> who was the last person that worked on the serverguide?
[20:27] <jjesse> ok in a talk here, do you have to have differnt access to post on help.ubuntu.com/community?
[20:28] <sommer> jjesse: I've been submitting patches and from what I can tell an LP account gets you access.
[20:28] <jjesse> nixternal or mdke you there?
[21:08] <nixternal> jjesse: yo yo
[21:09] <jjesse> nixternal: is there a difference in acces between posting soemting to h.u.com/communit instead of w.u.c
[21:11] <nixternal> jjesse: I don't believe there is, I know with h.u.com though, not everyone can delete a page
[21:34] <ardchoille> I'd like to join the documentation team but I use Kubuntu. Will that be a problem?
[21:44] <nixternal> ardchoille: HECK NO!
[21:44] <nixternal> hehe
[21:44] <nixternal> you are just the poor sould I need
[21:44] <nixternal> I mean, great contributor I need :)
[21:44] <nixternal> to bad I write Kubuntu documentation and can't spell worth a damn
[21:45] <nixternal> s/sould/soul
[21:45] <ardchoille> hehe
[21:45] <ardchoille> Well, I'll introduce myself.
[21:45] <ardchoille> My name is Ian MacGregor, but I go by my online nick: ardchoille
[21:46] <ardchoille> I worked for a time for Mandrake Linux as their chief editor for their newsletter, and I also edited their website.
[21:46] <ardchoille> I took a lot of journalism in college and I like to write.
[21:46] <nixternal> well well well, you sound like the Mandrake version of me :)
[21:47] <nixternal> how are your docbook skills?
[21:47] <ardchoille> I joined the ubuntu-docs list so I should be hearing something from that soon.
[21:47] <ardchoille> I know nothing about Docbook XML but an really wanting to learn.
[21:47] <ardchoille> Is there an IDE for Docbook?
[21:47] <nixternal> oh man
[21:47] <nixternal> no IDE for it
[21:47] <nixternal> just Kate
[21:48] <ardchoille> I love Kate
[21:48] <nixternal> actually, as long as you can read and write english, you are da man!
[21:48] <ardchoille> :)
[21:48] <nixternal> if you can do html, then docbook/xml will come easy
[21:48] <ardchoille> I'm Scottish, but don't hold that against me :)
[21:48] <nixternal> hey, our leader of Kubuntu is Scottish, and we haven't held it against him yet
[21:48] <ardchoille> heh, I still write my webpages in html instead of using an IDE
[21:49] <nixternal> brb
[21:51] <nixternal> alrighty, back
[21:59] <ardchoille> The docs team hasn't had a meeting since July?
[21:59] <nixternal> probably not....we are a rather busy group and the people who contribute usually know what is going on ahead of time...most of us have been doing this since Ubuntu started
[21:59] <ardchoille> ok
[22:00] <nixternal> the mailing list is usually where a lot of our work with people who aren't so versed usually takes place
[22:00] <nixternal> we try to have a meeting though when we are about to do something big...other than that, our goal is just to document the OS, so following development is one of the biggest things
[22:01] <ardchoille> Ah, ok
[22:10] <mdke> welcome aboard ardchoille
[22:11] <ardchoille> mdke: Thank you
[22:43]  * mdke goes through and merges / deletes a few team wiki pages
[22:44] <mdke> we have too much stuff around, best to keep things as simple as poss
[22:46] <ardchoille> Can I createmy own team wiki page? Or must I be an official team member first?
[22:46] <mdke> members of the team don't have wiki pages. You can create a personal page, sure - any user of the wiki should
[22:47] <ardchoille> ok
[22:47] <mdke> i mean, members of the team have wiki pages, but it's nothing to do with being a member of the team :)
[22:47] <mdke> clear as mud eh
[22:47] <ardchoille> hehe
[22:48] <nixternal> wasabi mr. matt!
[22:48] <mdke> hello
[22:49] <mdke> hmm, help.u.c still hasn't been updated
[22:50] <nixternal> ya, anything *.com has been a little slow around here
[22:51] <mdke> I mean, the 7.10 help hasn't been uploaded
[22:51] <nixternal> I thought you had access to that
[22:52] <mdke> no, you don't get access to some servers unless you are a canonical employee
[22:53] <nixternal> sue um!
[22:53] <nixternal> ;)
[22:53] <mdke> I have enough suing to do
[22:54] <mdke> it's nice to take a break from suing when I get home
[22:54] <nixternal> hhahaa
[23:02] <somerville32> mdke: You sue people for a living? lol


[02:49] <ChmEarl> cat /etc/os-release -> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu Noble Numbat (development branch)"
[02:49] <ChmEarl> building the last rc of xen-4.18
[02:50] <mybalzitch> lol numbat, cute
[03:23] <ChmEarl> https://pb.dynavirt.com/view/raw/628953c8
[03:23] <ChmEarl> trace of the build in noble
[03:24] <ChmEarl> distro has xen-4.17.2
[03:27] <oerheks> :-)
[06:55] <lunadebian> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIGxKyekvBQ time for the last day of Ubuntu Summit 2023 for non canonical employees
[06:57] <lunadebian> as Canonical people have a 1 long week Hackaton week in Riga next week
[07:45] <lunadebian> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/submit-your-questions-for-ubuntu-summit-2023-session-skynet-or-star-trek-what-s-the-future-of-ai/38477
[11:21] <PeGaSuS> I'm a bit lost with this: Warning: convosptirc name differs from owner UNKNOWN!
[11:22] <PeGaSuS> this appeared after installing systemd-cron
[21:08] <teward> has anyone ever run into this kind of error when working with LXD managed VMs?  > Config parsing error: Failed to start device "eth6": Failed setting up device "eth6": Failed adding NIC device: Bus 'qemu_pcie10' not found
[21:08] <teward> trying to add a 7th network interface to the LXD managed VM and getting that hard error


[08:02] <jussi01> topyli: ping
[08:02] <jussi01> vorian. is there something we can sort for you today?
[08:24] <topyli> jussi01, pong
[08:24] <jussi01> -> pm
[09:57]  * elky checks the moon phase
[10:20] <Mamarok> new moon tomorrow
[10:21]  * Mamarok has the moon plasma widget at hand in the panel :)
[10:22] <gord> i can generally tell what phase the moon is by how crazy my cat is acting
[10:22] <elky> Yeah, if it's changed in to a werecat and is gnawing on your head, it's /that/ time.
[11:27] <shadeslayer_> hi theres a very small issue with ubottu
[11:28] <shadeslayer_> http://ubottu.com/timezones.html << Asia/Calcutta should read : Asia/Kolkata
[11:28] <shadeslayer_> the name of the city was changed a few years back,so it needs to be updated ;)
[11:29] <shadeslayer> thanks :)
[15:41] <knome> x)
[16:19] <Pici> !away > papul
[17:55] <nhandler> Just out of curiosity, how do you make someone be known as a victim so they can be tested by the exploit test ?
[17:56] <jpds> victim <nick>
[17:57] <nhandler> Thanks jpds
[18:35] <nhandler> Hmm...There goes ubottu
[18:40] <nhandler> ubottu should probably ignore those types of messages sent by chanserv when it joins channels
[20:01] <ikonia> 7/last mYute
[20:02] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops mYute banforward placed on him for quit message "Quit: what i want is fukcin the girls that who walk alone in the dark streets"
[20:26] <TomFarr> hi
[20:26] <TomFarr> I have a question!
[20:27] <Flannel> TomFarr: How can we help you?
[20:28] <TomFarr> You are can unban me at #ubuntu-ru
[20:29] <Flannel> TomFarr: This channel doesn't deal with loco team channels, you'll want to seek out the -ru operators in #ubuntu-irc
[20:29] <TomFarr> hmm... I try it...
[20:29] <nhandler> TomFarr: You can view a list of #ubuntu-ru operators with: /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-ru  and looking for people who are +o
[20:45] <jrib> mutantturkey is another #archlinux-offtopic friend
[20:47] <arghh2d2> unban me from #ubuntu please i've been banned well over a month just for telling some kid "stfu"
[20:48] <arghh2d2> i didnt spell out "shut the f*** up" i just said "stfu" cuz he was purpoely trolling me and it was annoying...i apologize, unban me please
[20:50] <arghh2d2> purposely*
[20:51] <jrib> mneptok: may I pm?
[20:53] <jrib> arghh2d2: wait for bazhang to be around
[20:53] <arghh2d2> aight
[20:53] <mneptok> jrib: please do
[20:53] <jrib> in the meantime, make sure you read the channel guidelines
[20:54] <jrib> !guidelines > arghh2d2
[20:55] <mneptok> jrib: waiting ...
[21:08] <PingFloyd> Just wanted to inform you taht mneptok abuses his ops access for #ubuntu
[21:14] <mneptok> 14:52 [Freenode] [PingFloyd(~pingfloyd@adsl-64-219-111-59.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net)] fuck you asshole!!!!!!!
[21:14] <mneptok> 14:53 [Freenode] [PingFloyd(~pingfloyd@adsl-64-219-111-59.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net)] you're about the most irresponsible op I've ever seen.  Go fuck yourself
[21:14] <mneptok> just wanted to ask you to consider the source ;)
[22:02] <ikonia> TomFarr: if you don't need the operators any more could you please leave the channel.
[22:02] <ikonia> arghh2d2: is anyone dealing with you currently ?
[22:02] <arghh2d2> hang on
[22:02] <ikonia> o
[22:02] <ikonia> ok
[22:02] <arghh2d2> i will reitterate
[22:03] <arghh2d2> unban me from #ubuntu please i've been banned well over a  month just for telling some kid "stfu"
[22:03] <arghh2d2> i didnt spell out "shut the f*** up" i just said "stfu"
[22:03] <arghh2d2>                     cuz he was purpoely trolling me and it was annoying...i
[22:03] <arghh2d2>                     apologize, unban me please
[22:03] <ikonia> ok, one moment please
[22:04] <arghh2d2> i help newbs in there all the time
[22:04] <ikonia> that doesn't excuse anything
[22:04] <ikonia> and refering to new users as "newbs" can be seen as a little derogatory, so you may want to think about how you use that
[22:05] <ikonia> I'm just getting your details, I'll be with you ASAP
[22:07] <arghh2d2> ikonia: excuse my lack of pc...new users...newb is just faster to type
[22:07] <ikonia> I understand that, and I know it's not always meant derogatory, I'm just suggesting you think about how you use it in the ubuntu channels
[22:07] <arghh2d2> i dont use it at all in #ubuntu
[22:08] <arghh2d2> it's pretty obvious usually, no need for saying "are you a newb?"
[22:09] <ikonia> ahhh yes
[22:09] <ikonia> I actually remember you now
[22:09] <ikonia> it wasn't as simple as you're making out
[22:10] <arghh2d2> if you say so, that kid was just lurking and attacking everything i said
[22:10] <ikonia> no
[22:11] <arghh2d2> pastebin?
[22:11] <ikonia> I have logs of you being a problem with the same attitude as you where banned for
[22:11] <arghh2d2> pastebin?
[22:11] <arghh2d2> where?
[22:11] <arghh2d2> or were?
[22:12] <ikonia> well, I can see a time where you and a user "jaycool" where messing around and I removed you from the channel in #ubuntu
[22:12] <ikonia> there appear to also be a few other incidents
[22:12] <ikonia> where you take the channel offtopic with silly comments and when you're asked to stop multiple times you refuse
[22:13] <arghh2d2> i dont recall
[22:13] <arghh2d2> pastebin?
[22:13] <ikonia> the "kid" you refer to was actually quite polite to you and requested you move your discussion to another channel, where you told him to "stuf"
[22:14] <ikonia> I'm going to ask you to be patient and return to the channel when bazhang - the operator who banned you is available to deal with your ban, as I'm not confortable removing the ban at this time
[22:14] <arghh2d2> ikonia: what time and date was all this?
[22:14] <ikonia> I kicked you from the channel 02/02/2010
[22:15] <ikonia> and you're behaviour in ubuntu that bazhang kicked you multiple times and then ended up banning you was 05/02/2010
[22:16] <ikonia> you where also a pain in December 2009 calling the !ops command randomly
[22:16] <ikonia> so as I said, I'm not comfortable removing the ban at this time as there is more to it than you are making out, so I'll ask you to come back when bazhang is active and available to remove the ban
[22:17] <arghh2d2> ikonia: notice there was three minute gaps between posts?  i dont joke around if theres a bunch of people trying to get help
[22:18] <ikonia> arghh2d2: so ?
[22:18] <ikonia> you where asked to not joke around at all
[22:19] <ikonia> I suggest you come back when bazhang is free
[22:22] <ikonia> arghh2d2: anything else you need from us ?
[22:26] <ikonia> arghh2d2: hello ?
[22:27] <topyli> arghh2d2, please part the channel if there is nothing further at this time. drop by later to check whether bazhang is around, so that he can help you
[22:29] <arghh2d2> sorry, phone
[22:29] <arghh2d2> what now?
[22:29] <arghh2d2> why?
[22:30] <arghh2d2> whatever


 Boosted the toot!
 Huzzah!
 HP zd8000 Pentium4 @3.4 (single core with hyperthreading) AMD ATI Mobility Radion X600 2Gb of RAM.  ... 32bit iso burned to a dvd.  ... Installed cleanly even in an optical drive that tends to overheat and lock up. Was it intentional to have no 'Erase disk' option in the installer? Also would personally like a 'use same password
 No Broadcom support out of the box, but track pad and logitech mouse (via dongle) work flawlessly.
[02:39] <wxl[m]> Blame Broadcom
 @wxl[m] [<wxl[m]> Blame Broadcom], What's the deal with Broadcom drivers anyway?
 Why are they so freaking problematic and is there anything we can do about it, at all?
 they didn't release any new driver ever since 3.x kernel series IIRC
 the rest of support up to 4.0x was done by patching the last release
 they claim to contribute to kernel but the fact is their upstreamed kernel module (bcm, or, the supported hardware list) is always a few model behind the latest
 Harumph.
 Siduction 18.3.0 has them working out of the box. Any chance of stealing their setup? (It was their x64 version I had on this laptop)
 wxl: IT'S ALWAYS ALF'S FAULT XD
 LOL
[02:57] <wxl[m]> Siduction doesn't care about using proprietary binary blobs
 True.
[02:57] <wxl[m]> Alf hates free software
 agaida doesn't care. XD
 Exaaaactly.
[02:58] <wxl[m]> So no we won't
[02:58] <wxl[m]> Of course we do too since we're using Telegram 😭
 Is it available under additional drivers like Nvidia? Hasn't found that part of settings yet.
[03:03] <wxl[m]> There's a package who's sole purpose is to download the binaries
[03:04] <wxl[m]> That way we don't have to dirty our repos with them 😁
 B43 cutter installer or something. I installed that from the software installer already.
[03:33] <krytarik> !info ubuntu-drivers-common | More general like this
 Thank you
 @Dreamingwolf [B43 cutter installer or something. I installed that from the software installer …], here is a compiliation of different methods for broadcom http://askubuntu.com/questions/55868/installing-broadcom-wireless-drivers
 Excellent! Thank you @HMollerCl !
 IN my case what work was: ... $sudo apt-get remove —purge bcmwl-kernel-source ... $sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer b43-fwcutter ... blacklists: ... $cat /etc/modprobe.d/* | egrep 'bcm ... (You may want to copy this) and see if the term 'blacklist bcm43xx' is there. ... If it is, type cd /etc/modprobe.d/ and then $sudo le
 $sudo modprobe -r b43 ... $sudo modprobe b43     ... $sudo rfkill unblock all
 when if turno wireless on/off Ihad to  ... $sudo rfkill unblock all ... tomo make it work again
 of course, it was a bcm43xx
 Again, thank you. I'll try that when I'm back at testing. Nuling and paving my desktop… again… at the moment.
 *nuking not nuling*
[17:03] <wxl> looks like the bluetooth stuff should be in the menu now https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluedevil/4:5.13.5-0ubuntu2 @tsimonq2 do we need to do something to get around freeze with this?
 @wxl [<wxl> looks like the bluetooth stuff should be in the menu now https://launchpad …], Should be in the next dailies.
 It migrated and should be installable as of 20 hours ago.
[17:04] <wxl> 20 hours ago.. might already be there in today's?
 Yeah.
[17:05] <wxl> k cool. just didn't know if that FFe is automatic or if we need to bug people
 An FFe is a human-made and human-enforced freeze. :P
[17:05] <wxl> ah ic
[17:18] <wxl> oh jeez what did i do wrong
[17:19] <wxl> i tried to land D16 and smoething went weird
[17:19] <wxl> i think
[17:19] <wxl> @tsimonq2: ?
 Oof, rookie mistake :)
[17:20] <wxl> i blame my instructor
 Go to master and revert that commit you just made. Later I'll rewind both and force push.
 When you do arc land, you have to do `arc land BRANCH` otherwise it automatically lands to master.
[17:21] <wxl> aw jeez that's dumb
 So you just landed all of that to master.
 Yeah ik :/
[17:21] <wxl> tjat
 So revert it, and retry it.
[17:21] <wxl> oops
[17:21] <wxl> that's particularly ungitlike
 But you'll likely have to git merge the branch created by arc patch onto ubuntu/cosmic.
 This part is weird and buggy, I know. :/
[17:23] <wxl> ok i think i did the revert right
[17:25] <wxl> `git diff HEAD HEAD^^` returns null so that's a good sign
[17:27] <wxl> weird that i can do the arc patch but land fails
 Huh
 I dunno, dude.
[17:29] <wxl> nope can't do it
[17:29] <wxl> i give up
[17:29] <wxl> you fix it XD
 Lazy XD
 Let me sleep a little bit to let you wallow in shame
[17:29] <wxl> no effect
[17:30] <wxl> you'll just be making wendy sad
[17:31] <wxl> oh. i think i know why. it updated the whole differential https://phab.lubuntu.me/D16
[17:36] <wxl> and even picking at just the diff (62) of the whole differential (D16) is still not enough.
 Yay! You are making more progress than I was in actually getting it to land.
[18:18] <wxl> there i think i did it
[18:18] <wxl> problem was, again, the instructor
[18:18] <wxl> arc land --onto ubuntu/cosmic
[18:20] <wxl> ok let's try this again
[18:24] <wxl> ah well i was going to land D21 but it wants launchpad credentials which then doesn't seem to accept
[18:28] <wxl> maybe if i change the remote to git+ssh instead of http
[18:43] <wxl> that seems to work but cosmic doesn't exist in remote origin bah
[18:52] <wxl> well i give up on that. @tsimonq2 got any clues?
 git merge arcpatch-D12 or whatever and push.
 Using arc patch makes its own Git branch locally.
[18:53] <wxl> or whatever?
 Whatever the branch name is.
[18:53] <wxl> let's make sure we get this right
[18:53] <wxl> so you wnat me to arc patch
[18:54] <wxl> and then what? git checkout cosmic?
[18:55] <wxl> and then git merge arcpatch-Dwhatever?
[18:55] <wxl> why doesn't this just work with arc land?
 Yeah
 Because arc land is stupid, that's why :)
[18:56] <wxl> that seems like a less likely explanation
 Bet
[18:57] <wxl> so you have no clue. got it
 I get it to work locally that way.
 Right, I don't.
[18:57] <wxl> :)
 You think I'm just being a bad instructor? I had to clumsily step through this myself.


[16:07] <jrwren> https://ostechnix.com/find-exact-installation-date-time-linux-os/
[16:07] <jrwren> anyone have alternate methods?
[16:07] <jrwren> I've actually moved the root filesystem on this server and so that method is incorrect.
[16:58] <cmaloney> I have never thought about such things
[17:06] <jrwren> my server is so old I don't remember when i built it./
[17:06] <jrwren> sometimes I want to look it pu.


[02:55] <micahg> bdrung: about Bug #1099003, does vlc dlopen libopus?
[02:57] <micahg> bdrung: if so, we can backport opus from quantal to precise
[02:58] <micahg> bdrung: make that can, as I see there's a build-dep in quantal
[03:00] <micahg> bdrung: alternatively, we can backport opus+vlc from quantal to precise once the can't build depend on backports in backports bug is fixed
[04:09] <wendar> recap: gnumeric is a trivial manual merge, but depends on goffice 0.10.0
[04:09] <wendar> goffice requires a sync, since the Ubuntu patches are no longer relevant
[04:10] <wendar> but, it's a significant version change so requires a transition
[04:11] <wendar> anyone got pointers for docs on library transitions?
[04:13] <wendar> I'll ask cjwatson when the time zones roll around again if no other answers pop up
[04:13] <micahg> wendar: preferably through merges/syncs from Debian if they're available
[04:13] <micahg> if that's needed
[04:14] <wendar> gnumeric is a merge from Debian, goffice will be a sync
[04:14] <jtaylor> wendar: first setup a transition tracker http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/
[04:14] <micahg> jtaylor: it's a handful of packages
[04:14] <micahg> or 2 handfuls
[04:15] <wendar> jtaylor: is that populated manually or automatically?
[04:15] <jtaylor> automatic
[04:15] <jtaylor> you just have to provide the rules
[04:15] <wendar> goffice isn't in there, but then goffice is blocked on a manual merge
[04:15] <micahg> it's actually 5 sources
[04:15] <wendar> so, if goffice is sync'd, will it then appear in the transition tracker?
[04:15] <micahg> not worth a tracker
[04:15] <jtaylor> no the tracker has to be setup manually
[04:16] <wendar> ah, automatically generated, for manually specified package names?
[04:16] <jtaylor> you provide the afftected, good and bad lines you see in the existing ones
[04:17] <jtaylor> but it may not be worth it if its only handful
[04:29] <wendar> is it fairly similar to the Debian transition "ben" format? http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ReleaseTeam/Transitions
[04:29] <micahg> indeed
[04:44] <wendar> ok, exactly 5 packages
[04:50] <wendar> micahg: is it reasonable to put in the Sync request for goffice, and include the list of reverse depends and reverse build depends?
[04:50] <wendar> with the note that it may require a transition
[04:52] <wendar> or would you lean more toward an email to ubuntu-motu (which is where I see some transition conversation happening)
[04:52] <jtaylor> first do all rdeps still build?
[04:53] <jtaylor> if yes (and they also work) the actual transition can be simple
[04:54] <jtaylor> must get to bed now, n8
[05:29] <micahg> wendar: if everything works, then file the appropriate bugs with notes that they should go together
[05:30] <wendar> micah: I'm doing a test build on all of them
[10:42] <cjwatson> wendar: yeah, for five I'd JFDI.  Let me know when I should merge gnumeric
[12:51] <jtaylor> I probably asked that already but forgot,  when doing an sru that build depends on another sru do I have to add versioned depends?
[12:51] <jtaylor> e.g. jcc (>= 2.11-3ubuntu0.1)
[13:20] <Rhonda> hmmmmm, why don't I have the ssh key from my laptop on jubany.c.c …
[17:18] <wendar> cjwatson: a sync'd version of the latest goffice from Debian builds fine, but I get build failures in gnumeric and gnome-chemistry-utils which depend on it
[17:19] <wendar> those are the only two reverse depends on goffice that have ubuntu changes, everything else is already sync'd from Debian
[17:22] <wendar> the build failures aren't directly related to goffice, though
[17:23] <wendar> which means, it could be other gtk packages in Ubuntu that are different versions than Debian's
[17:24] <wendar> gnumeric fails with a missing identifier in GTK-Doc
[17:25] <wendar> gnome-chemistry fails with a missing symbol from libxslt at link time (so, not even gtk related)
[17:53] <bdrung> micahg: backporting opus+vlc sound good. what needs to be done once quantal EOL?
[17:53] <bdrung> backport from raring to precise?
[18:07] <micahg> bdrung: that or just upload the precise version with enable opus + enable ssl
[18:15] <bdrung> micahg: looking at the precise->quantal diff, it's better to just enable opus and ssl instead of backporting the quantal version
[18:16] <micahg> bdrung: I was going to backport quantal + reinstate the postinst
[18:16] <bdrung> micahg: and revert the fonts-freefont-ttf rename, please
[18:17] <bdrung> otherwise you can't install it (or you backport the freefont package)
[18:17] <micahg> bdrung: we just need the reverse dependencies tested with the built versions, I can throw them in my PPA
[18:17] <micahg> bdrung: ah, yes
[18:17] <bdrung> backporting the font would be probably better
[18:18] <micahg> it has a few reverse dependencies as well, but I don't mind if they're tested
[18:21] <bdrung> micahg: once we have one version of vlc in backport, keeping it updated shouldn't be that big issue (because security updates will go to precise and quantal)
[18:21] <micahg> right
[18:23] <micahg> ah, we actually don't need the backport on backport version
[18:23] <micahg> both are new packages in backports
[19:30] <wendar> cjwatson: is there a better way to test a partial archive rebuild for a library transition?
[19:32] <wendar> cjwatson: I'm beginning to suspect the build failures may have more to do with creating a test build environent from a mixture of apt-get installs of raring packages and local custom dpkg installs of the new versions of the packages
[19:32] <wendar> cjwatson: so, it's getting the dependencies confused on building packages that depend on other packages I've already built
[19:55] <jtaylor> when doing an sru that build depends on another sru do I have to add versioned depends?  e.g. jcc (>= 2.11-3ubuntu0.1)
[20:17] <micahg> jtaylor: if the version is required for functionality, yes
[20:18] <jtaylor> its only the build
[20:18] <jtaylor> runtime doesn't matter
[20:18] <micahg> yes, I mean if it's required to make the build work properly, it should be versioned
[20:18] <jtaylor> k
[21:01] <cjwatson> wendar: Does the new goffice render the old (other packages) uninstallable?
[21:02] <cjwatson> wendar: If so, the simplest way is to put it into raring-proposed (where everything's staged anyway) and then it'll automatically stay there until we fix everything else up - and it'll be easier to test-build them once the new goffice is in raring-proposed
[21:03] <cjwatson> wendar: if the new goffice changes library package names or similar, that's good enough for this purpose
[21:29] <wendar> cjwatson: I'm getting FTBFS on gnumeric and gnome-chemistry-utils when I rebuild locally on the new goffice
[21:30] <wendar> cjwatson: so, yes going ahead and syncing the new goffice into raring-proposed would work
[21:31] <wendar> cjwatson: I can watch and fix any errors until all the dependencies are straight
[21:34] <wendar> cjwatson: (the library package names are different for the new goffice, all 0.10 instead of 0.8)
[21:35] <cjwatson> wendar: done on your behalf, then
[21:35] <cjwatson> I'll have a poke at gnumeric tomorrow
[21:35] <wendar> cjwatson: thanks!
[21:36] <wendar> I did the merge for gnumeric
[21:36] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/ should tell you what's still blocking it (in a bit)
[21:36] <cjwatson> point me to a source package and I'll start from that, then
[21:36] <cjwatson> though the Ubuntu changes weren't complicated
[21:36] <wendar> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnumeric/+bug/1099027
[21:37] <cjwatson> ok, ta
[21:37] <wendar> aye, the changes were light
[21:37]  * cjwatson not a major fan of attempting to sponsor UDD merges anyway
[21:37] <cjwatson> fine for other things, but there are a few too many directions to compare for merges
[21:37] <cjwatson> so glad you just gave a debdiff
[21:38] <cjwatson> anyway, -> tv, will look tomorrow
[21:38] <wendar> enjoy :)


[03:12] <bcurtiswx> anyone using natty havign troubles using launchpad ? (is it a new years thing) ?
[03:12] <bcurtiswx> i mean, bzr
[12:01] <john> i need help can any one tell me were to go
[12:29] <c_korn> Happy new year!
[20:38] <bcurtiswx_> join #ubuntu+1
[20:38] <bcurtiswx_> whoops / helps
[21:40] <bcurtiswx_> anyone know why bzr bd would not see a correct version on my computer
[21:40] <bcurtiswx_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/549372/
[23:13] <maxb> bcurtiswx_: bzr-builddeb does not check build-depends versions. It must be whatever tool is being invoked by it. Which tool is that? I don't recognize the wording of the error message


[01:02] <Zambezi> Can anybody help me? I having problem with apt-get so I'm using wget instead but it won't work. I need assistent.
[01:03] <lionelp> Zambezi: it is more #ubuntu relative so :)
[01:04] <Zambezi> No. Cause I'm running with WM.-
[01:04] <lionelp> WM ?
[01:04] <Zambezi> *without. I installed Ubuntu server. I changed two thing in sources.list but I can't download a file.
[01:05] <Zambezi> lionelp: WM = Windows manager.
[01:05] <Zambezi> lionelp: And now I trying to uncompress the file, but I won't work.
[01:05] <lionelp> Ok ok
[01:05] <lionelp> Can you show us your sources.list ?
[01:06] <lionelp> paste it on pastebin.com
[01:06] <Zambezi> lionelp: Yes.
[01:06] <Zambezi> lionelp: Just give me a minute.
[01:06] <lionelp> no pb
[01:06] <spike> eeer, how does the window manager matters?
[01:06] <lionelp> but not a lot, my bed is calling me :)
[01:06] <lionelp> spike :)
[01:06] <spike> a problem with soures.list isnt an ubuntu-development related question.
[01:07] <spike> there isnt much to discuss about it
[01:07] <lionelp> spike: we have to admit that we spend more time on server support here than on server dev
[01:07] <lionelp> I admit that his problem is not a server problem btw
[01:08] <Zambezi> lionelp: http://pastebin.com/752403
[01:09] <spike> lionelp: indeed. and honestly I'm one of those pro to server support as in install applications and the like. yet they must be someway server related
[01:09] <lionelp> spike: i know that your are pro server support
[01:09] <spike> ah, you do? :)
[01:10] <Zambezi> lionelp: And here's the repos: http://einsteinmg.dyndns.org/debian/
[01:10] <lionelp> I remember a mail you send on ubuntu-server few month ago
[01:10] <ajmitch> spike: pro server support? in what way?
[01:10] <spike> I'm still waiting for the day we'll come out with ubuntu-isp
[01:10] <spike> ajmitch: in a way that we have space for discussions about sysadmins
[01:10] <spike> ajmitch: exactly like debian-isp
[01:11] <spike> to me, ubuntu-server should be like ubuntu-isp, and dev discussion should be moved to ubuntu-server-development
[01:11] <ajmitch> ah right
[01:11] <lionelp> maybe it would be more appropriate to use ubuntu-server-devel and #ubuntu-server-devel for devel and keep server for support
[01:11] <spike> eheeh
[01:11] <ajmitch> we already have far too many ubuntu channels
[01:11] <lionelp> spike++
[01:11] <spike> ajmitch: indeed
[01:11] <lionelp> that's not wrong :)
[01:11] <ajmitch> and freenode has a 20-channel limit
[01:12] <spike> it is at a certain degree
[01:12] <ajmitch> so you can't join them all, and discussion gets split unnecessarily
[01:13] <Zambezi> It's too many people in #ubntu so noone can help me. Please, it's one thing. I really need it.
[01:13] <lionelp> nice, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam is getting more and more complete
[01:13] <lionelp> Zambezi: PV
[01:15] <lionelp> :)
[01:15] <spike> well, need to concentrate and try to finish this. talk to you later guys, c ya
[01:16] <lionelp> ciao
[01:17] <Zambezi> lionelp: Do you see my answers?
[01:17] <lionelp> no :-(
[01:17] <Zambezi> lionelp: Dammit. We take it here.
[01:17] <lionelp> Ok, know why
[01:18] <Zambezi> lionelp:  I upgraded Breezy to Dapper RC and it worked. But apt-get won't work so now I have to install it with wget, but this is the first time and I can get it to work.
[01:18] <lionelp> Zambezi: /join #zambezi
[01:34] <Cas> I really need php5-tidy which isn't availible, is it possible to compile it in from apt-get source php5?
[01:35] <lionelp> yes
[01:39] <neoncode> I've tried putting a server install of ubuntu 6.06 on this computer and it always stalls at "Setting up the Clock" At 0%... Even when there is no network present so it carn't be a NTP thing?
[01:43] <neoncode> Anyone know what's wrong?
[01:43] <lionelp> Do you wait ?
[01:44] <Cas> lionelp: any idea how I can put the tidy stuff in a package once it's build?
[01:44] <Cas> neoncode: you mean the installation?
[01:44] <neoncode> Cas: Yea...
[01:45] <lionelp> neoncode: how long ?:)
[01:45] <lionelp> It should timeout and pass
[01:45] <neoncode> I left it for like 10 minutes on that screen... I'm at the boot menu now.... I'l try in install again...
[01:46] <lionelp> Cas: yes but  it is a bit long to explain to do it properly...
[01:46] <lionelp> and I should be in bed since 1h now :)
[01:46] <Cas> hehe, have some documentation directions?
[01:47] <Cas> neoncode: could it be the part it sets your timezone?
[01:48] <lionelp> Cas: search on the wiki for package creation
[01:49] <lionelp> Are you familiar with Debian package creation ?
[01:49] <ajmitch> the packaging guide may be a good start
[01:50] <ajmitch> at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[01:50] <Cas> not really, but I think I can hande it with some documentation, the only thing I'm afraid of is how I only get the tidy part and not the whole PHP package
[01:50] <Cas> tnx ajmitch, will take a look
[01:52] <neoncode> How long should it take to do this "Setting up the Clock" BIt anyway? Or for it to time out?
[01:52] <lionelp> neoncode: you have no network ?
[01:53] <neoncode> lionelp: No, I just tried the install with the network cable un-pluged. See if it would make a diffrence.
[01:53] <neoncode> I Pluged it back in this time.
[01:54] <lionelp> strange...
[01:54] <lionelp> btw, time to go to bed for me
[01:54] <lionelp> sorry...
[01:54] <neoncode> ok..
[01:57] <neoncode> Still going...
[03:32] <SEJeff> Does anyone know the name of the package that supposedly sets up the lamp stack with 1 command?
[03:32] <SEJeff> I'm guessing it's a metapackage, but I read on the ubuntu release that a fully working lamp stack is available via 1 command so I'm curious how.
[03:38] <gpd> no - it is not a metapackage at this time :(
[03:38] <gpd> it is an option on the install CD
[03:39] <gpd> however i could scroll back and find the packages if you need
[03:39] <gpd> metapackage funk is apparently appearing in Edgy [according to infinity]
[03:40] <SEJeff> gpd: You've *got* to be kidding right?
[03:40] <SEJeff> And so those of us that have dist-upgraded faithfully since warty are SOL? That feature should not be touted if thats the case.
[03:41] <gpd> hardly SOL -- it is still one line ... hold on let me check
[03:41] <SEJeff> gpd: thankyou
[03:42] <gpd> apt-get install apache2  apache2-mpm-prefork libapache2-mod-php5 mysql-server php5-mysql  php5-mysqli
[03:42] <maswan> apt-get install apache postgresql [you should already have linux and perl installed]
[03:42] <SEJeff> Ok, I just assumed it was some server-candy magic metapackage. Thanks again guys
[03:43] <gpd> maswan: isn't that LAPP :P
[03:45] <maswan> "Most of our scripting languages start with p" for 'M' :P
[03:45] <maswan> anyway, I'm really sleeping now, not ircing.
[03:46] <jsgotangco> maswan: good night
[08:45] <Tatey> I understand this is a development related channel, however, I haven't been able to find a possible solution from #ubuntu. My question is a simple yes/no. Is it possible to perform a server install over SSH?
[08:46] <gpd> do you mean setup an existing ubuntu as a 'server'
[08:46] <Tatey> no, a fresh install
[08:46] <gpd> how are you ssh'ing into this box?
[08:48] <Tatey> currently, I'm not. For example, with Gentoo you can perform the entire install over SSH, and I believe you can with FreeBSD too. I was just curious if you can with Ubuntu-server
[08:48] <infinity> Tatey: I'm not sure if we're including the openssh-server udeb in our d-i builds, but if we are, you can do an ssh callback installation in expert mode.
[08:48] <infinity> (That feature exists for s390, since all s390 boxes are completely headless)
[08:49] <Tatey> thanks very much infinity :)
[10:20] <UserName14> This morning I had courier\postfix working perfectly on my system but its not working anymore i cant send pop\imap or login to my inbox I assume ubuntu forgot the Maildir thingy and thats why its no longer working  In telnet i get a ERR Maildir no such file or directory
[10:20] <UserName14> does anyone know how to fix this?
[03:25] <J_P> hi all
[03:25] <J_P> people< i have one important question :
[03:26] <J_P> in search apt show for me linux-image-2.6.15-23-686, linux-image-2.6.15-23-server and I have the server. so is better install linux-image-2.6.15-23-server right  ?
[03:26] <J_P> But Aren't there linux-image-2.6.15-23-server  specific for each arquitecture ? (Pentium /amd etc) ?
[03:27] <J_P> that linux-image-2.6.15-23-server works for all CPUs  as server ? anyone can explaim me that ?
[03:29] <J_P> anyone here ?
[03:32] <J_P> hi, My conection lost..
[03:32] <J_P> :-)
[03:32] <J_P> anyone see my last question ?
[03:34] <J_P> anyone here ?
[03:54] <Zaggynl> Hi, I've just installed ubuntu-server, and I'm wondering which window manager to pick
[03:55] <Zaggynl> I got a hearattack when I noticed that installing xubuntu-desktop is 965mb and kubuntu-desktop is 1322mb
[03:55] <Wil0000> should the server edition boot to gnome or kde?
[03:55] <infinity> Zaggynl: If you wanted a window manager, you probably didn't want ubuntu-server.
[03:55] <Wil0000> or soes it not include it?
[03:55] <Wil0000> haha, thats what i thought
[03:55] <infinity> Wil0000: Neither.  It's bare-bones.
[03:55] <Zaggynl> infinity: well I have to get a server running
[03:55] <infinity> Zaggynl: Yes, none of my servers have monitors, let alone a windowing system...
[03:55] <Wil0000> im downloading x11, thats will dive it yes?
[03:56] <infinity> Wil0000: If you want a full desktoppy system, grab one of {xubuntu,ubuntu,kubuntu}-desktop.
[03:56] <Zaggynl> infinity: hum err I have get ubuntu talking to my win2k3 AD , and I was hoping I could do it using a wm
[03:56] <infinity> That'll be a huge download, but you'll be happy.
[03:56] <Zaggynl> *I have to get
[03:56] <infinity> Zaggynl: I fail to see how one relates to the other.
[03:57] <infinity> Zaggynl: There are no GUI tools to configure Samba, Kerberos, or LDAP, the three components of an Active Directory.
[03:57] <Zaggynl> okay
[03:57] <Zaggynl> ill drop the whole wm part then
[03:58] <Zaggynl> I'll follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActiveDirectoryHowto and I'll see how far I will come, thanks for the advice
[09:13] <arnaud___> is there a server metapackage for dapper ? (like ubuntu-server for breezy)
[09:19] <ivoks> no
[09:19] <ivoks> ubuntu-minimal
[09:20] <ghort> ok thanks
[09:20] <ivoks> it's hard to create -server metapackage
[09:20] <ivoks> since server could be mail server, web server, ftp server, etc...
[09:20] <ghort> maybe with linux-server
[09:21] <ghort> but I agree
[09:21] <ivoks> that's a kernel
[09:21] <ivoks> linux-server is type of kernel
[09:22] <ghort> yes, I don't really see the problem
[10:30] <jackc> ll


[22:12] <mpereira> i'm trying to set keybindings with gsettings under ubuntu 12.04 without success. for example, this doesn't work: `gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings move-to-workspace-up "['<Shift><Alt>K']"`. if i run `gsettings monitor` before running that command if outputs me the supposed change. also, configuring the keybindings through the GUI works just fine
[22:13] <mpereira> i've used gsettings successfully to change the text scaling factor i.e. `gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface text-scaling-factor 1.2`
[22:14] <mpereira> what am i doing wrong?
[22:14] <mpereira> sorry, wrong channel