[12:13] <astraljava> balloons: Hi, sadly I cannot participate to the roundtable today. I asked knome if could instead, but he wasn't sure either.
[16:01] <balloons> astraljava,  I missed your message earlier :-( Well it's happening now
[16:05] <balloons> phillw, jriddell, hggdh, jibel, Effenberg0x0, superrm1 you guys about?
[16:05] <Effenberg0x0> o/ here
[16:05] <hggdh> ~ô~
[16:05] <balloons> I don't know some of the IRC names of folks
[16:05]  * balloons goes off to look
[16:06] <superm1> howdy balloons
[16:06] <balloons> howdy!
[16:06] <balloons> ok, so we have Effenberg0x0 hggdh and superm1
[16:06] <balloons> let's see who else we can get trickling in here
[16:07] <superm1> tgm4883 should be here too from mythbuntu
[16:07] <tgm4883> I am now
[16:07] <tgm4883> I forgot and walked away to the server room :/
[16:07] <balloons> hello Thomas ;-)
[16:07] <tgm4883> o/
[16:08] <balloons> ok, looks like astraljava and knome can't make it so, I don't think we'll get anyone from xubuntu
[16:08] <balloons> any lubuntu folks here?
[16:09] <balloons> or kubuntu folks?
[16:10] <balloons> ok, well I will record this so I'll launch a meeting
[16:10] <balloons> #startmeeting QA Community Roundtable
[16:10] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 21 16:10:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:10] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:11] <patdk-wk> hm?
[16:11] <balloons> Julien and Phil from ubuntu both don't seem to be around ;-(
[16:11] <balloons> checking on kubuntu folks then we'll get started
[16:12] <Effenberg0x0> balloons: you had scheduled 2 hours. Maybe they will still make it
[16:13] <balloons> ok, pm's sent to everyone ;-)
[16:14] <balloons> so, let's start
[16:14] <balloons> [TOPIC] UTAH Demo
[16:14] <balloons> huh, bot doesn't like topics
[16:15] <balloons> well, anyways, first item on the agenda was to demo UTAH
[16:15] <tgm4883> balloons, perhaps #topic
[16:15] <balloons> don't think we can get a demo together, but hggdh can explain a little bit about what it is
[16:15] <balloons> #topic UTAH Demo
[16:15] <superm1> i thought there was going to be a google hangout or somethign to show it off?
[16:15] <tgm4883> hmm, meetingology apparently is a liar when it comes to available commands
[16:15] <hggdh> no, no demo right now, unfortunately
[16:16] <balloons> superm1, hggdh should be able to demonstrate how vm's are used in automated testing. but sadly, not a UTAH demo atm
[16:16] <superm1> so for now everyone stare at http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/states/utah/map.GIF and imagine as hggdh describes :)
[16:16] <balloons> :-)
[16:17] <Effenberg0x0> I like the green. Very vivid.
[16:17] <hggdh> UTAH (Ubuntu Testing Automation Harness) is the new baseset we are moving to for automated testing on Ubuntu
[16:18] <hggdh> it will be (when fully implemented) flavour-agnostic, so it can be used for all *ubuntu
[16:18] <hggdh> right now, beginning of development, it only supports VMs (via libvirt)
[16:18] <superm1> is the input it takes an ISO image?
[16:19] <hggdh> yes, it uses ISO images to build the target test environment
[16:19] <superm1> specifically, "desktop" ISO images, not alternate
[16:19] <hggdh> the installation is preseeded, so there is no input required.
[16:19] <hggdh> not only desktop, but also alternate and server
[16:19] <superm1> okay i see
[16:20] <superm1> sorry, i can hold off questions until the end if you would like, i just realized this might be a bit rude to interject
[16:20] <hggdh> (which is to say, ubiquity and debian-installer based installs)
[16:20] <hggdh> superm1: no, please shoot the questions as we go
[16:20] <hggdh> I do not mind :-)
[16:21] <superm1> Ok. will you have a place to put preseeds in this tool for the different flavours?
[16:21] <hggdh> this, on the other hand, means that you might have to adjust the preseeds to your specific needs
[16:21] <hggdh> yes, we will
[16:21] <superm1> i know at least mythbuntu and ubuntu studio do have custom preseeds
[16:21] <superm1> Ok
[16:22] <hggdh> being able to adjust preseeds is pretty much a requirement if you want to automate tests
[16:22] <superm1> so the unfortunate flaw in doing it this way that comes to mind is that sometimes you will have bugs that are exposed only when the installation is ran in an interactive mode or only in an automatic mode etc
[16:23] <superm1> so it can't be a complete replacement to lots of user testing, but instead a valuable supplement
[16:23] <hggdh> UTAH was originally called 'uath'. But we found that (1) nobody could pronouce it, and (2) it means 'fear, horror´ in ancient Gaelic
[16:23] <hggdh> generically speaking, automated testing *cannot* replace actual hands-on
[16:24] <hggdh> it is just a way of getting the bits that do not directly depend on user input tested, and out of the way
[16:24] <hggdh> but we still need to have manual installs, and testing
[16:25] <Effenberg0x0> hggdh: Just to be clear, can you mention some cases in which UTAH will raise a flag?
[16:26] <hggdh> yes
[16:27] <hggdh> let's say you are testing upgrades from desktop -- it is easily automated: having an existing (say) Precise install, you run 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d', and use pexpect to drive the answers
[16:28] <hggdh> in this case, we are looking for failures to upgrade -- missing pre-reqs, new package version fails to install, etc
[16:28] <hggdh> of course, we cannot check for positioning of windows, and text visibility in windows, etc. But we will get the "backoffice" errors
[16:29] <hggdh> or you are testing a specific package with the testset provided by it (say, mysql, or even coreutils). So you install the image at the version of Ubuntu you want, and run these tests
[16:30] <hggdh> (for coreutils, you need to _build_ the package again, coreutils tests are intermixed with the build process)
[16:30] <hggdh> but you will get errors because of a change on libraries
[16:31] <superm1> what kind of failures get raised in the upgrade testing?  will bugs get filed?
[16:31] <hggdh> or you want to check on ecryptfs -- we have a set of tests for it, and they are fully automated
[16:32] <hggdh> no bugs are opened automagically. We still need to look at the failures and identify the cause
[16:32] <Effenberg0x0> hggdh: got it. Some debugging skills are needed by a human tester.
[16:33] <hggdh> the point here is to weed out false positives -- errors caused by test code, not by what is actually being tested
[16:33] <hggdh> Effenberg0x0: always
[16:33] <hggdh> when you are testing you have to look for real and false positives and negatives
[16:34] <hggdh> usually, we assume the negatives (which is to say, the expected results) are correct
[16:35] <hggdh> but, every so often, you should look at your "correct" results, and verify they are indeed correct
[16:35] <superm1> there will be some sort of notification mechanism for those flavors interested when things fail and need some further intervention?
[16:36] <hggdh> UTAH has a provision to alert users. YOu can set it and use it. In our case, most of the UTAH tests will be run via Jenkins (http://jenkins-ci.org/), so we use Jenkins to do the alerting
[16:37] <hggdh> another point we all should be careful on is on destructive/non-destructive tests
[16:37] <hggdh> I personally define a destructive test as a test that unilaterally changes your system configuration
[16:38] <hggdh> look at 'change your system configuration' as 'can destroy your system'
[16:38] <hggdh> it does not matter if it actually completely borks, but it might -- for example -- change the DNS resolution
[16:39] <superm1> will flavours be able to run utah in the canonical jenkins instance, or need to set up their own?
[16:39] <hggdh> on the other hand, this Monday we had a ecryptfs test that actually forces a reboot of the system: a piece of the kernel goes haywire, and I/O to ecryptfs cannot be guaranteed to work until the reboot
[16:40] <hggdh> superm1: I cannot really answer that, sorry. But... we -- right now -- do not have the resources to guarantee test space for the flavours
[16:41] <superm1> OK
[16:41] <superm1> Daviey warned that jenkins is a PIA to get setup
[16:41] <hggdh> so, at least right now, please do not expect we will be able to run tests for other than Ubuntu
[16:42] <Effenberg0x0> hggdh: The typical ISO-Test (Install/Partitioning, writing MBR/Grub, installing/removing drivers/kernel modules like VGA) is handled by UTAH?
[16:42] <hggdh> Effenberg0x0: yes indeed
[16:42] <hggdh> superm1: not really a pita, but it does have a learning curve
[16:43] <hggdh> the easiest way of using UTAH would be to deploy VMs
[16:43] <superm1> can UTAH be ran without jenkins then on its own via VM deployments?
[16:43] <hggdh> deploying bare-metal will, of course, require bare-metal and additional packages/networks (so that MAAS, for example, can be deployed)
[16:44] <hggdh> superm1: yes, it can, and this is how I was starting to test it
[16:44] <superm1> ah great
[16:44] <balloons> if I can interject, it would also be good to throw some links at you for this : https://launchpad.net/utah
[16:44] <hggdh> all you need is libvirt and friends
[16:44] <hggdh> balloons: thank you, did not really have time to prepare
[16:44] <superm1> so really need to just check it out and start playing to see where questions crop up
[16:44] <balloons> there's a wiki off that page with more info and a picture
[16:45] <hggdh> (and I am, right now, testing a new set of kernel SRU tests, and the KVM I am using is driving me nuts, popping up on my monitor every time the machine thinks about doing something
[16:45] <balloons> additionally, if you have further specific questions once your playing with it, there's a mailing list setup for it now<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:46] <hggdh> superm1: yes. Not only to learn, but to tell us where we, ah, did something wrong
[16:46] <superm1> great, thanks!  just need to find some time to actually use it and experiment now :)
[16:47] <hggdh> the code resides at...
[16:47] <balloons> it's linked above hggdh https://launchpad.net/utah, lp:utah
[16:48] <hggdh> heh
[16:48] <Effenberg0x0> hggdh: How do we prioritize/filter UTAH-Testing bug reports, amidst the constant flow of new bug reports on LP (correct/incorrect ones) everyday?
[16:48] <hggdh> so please brz branch, and play -- or install the daily utah package from the PPA
[16:49] <hggdh> Effenberg0x0: what we are doing internally, is to tag all bugs we find (via whatever test process, including manual testing) as a qa finding
[16:49] <balloons> fyi, there's a daily and stable ppa.. you can find them here: https://launchpad.net/~utah
[16:50] <balloons> link to stable: https://launchpad.net/~utah/+archive/stable
[16:50] <Effenberg0x0> hggdh, OK
[16:51] <balloons> ok anymore questions on utah for hggdh ?
[16:53] <balloons> alright if not, next up is testcase management
[16:53] <balloons> which you get to listen to me for ;-)
[16:53] <balloons> I'll include visuals..
[16:53] <balloons> I'm wondering if it makes sense for me to type it or speak it
[16:54] <balloons> I'm concerned if I only have the video it won't make the log
[16:54] <balloons> I can screenshare and type to you all, or you can view a live feed of me speaking with my desktop :-)
[16:55] <balloons> let's try the type and view
[16:55] <balloons> http://www.screenleap.com/ubuntuqa
[16:56] <balloons> hopefully everyone can see my screen now?
[16:56] <Effenberg0x0> OK here balloons
[16:56] <superm1> yup
[16:56] <cariboo907> OK here too
[16:56] <balloons> As you know the qatracker just went through an update to bring testcase management
[16:57] <balloons> I'm going to show you how it works from a behind the scenes admin perspective
[16:57] <balloons> we'll use the staging site on dev.stgraber.org
[16:58] <balloons> so I have a couple products laid out here, mimicking the iso.qa.ubuntu.com tracker
[16:58] <balloons> testcases and pages look pretty similar, except for the addition of the extra links
[16:59] <balloons> clicking on a test (http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/224/builds/16281/testcases/1305/results) you can see there are some new links, and the testcase is now included inline
[16:59] <balloons> hi highvoltage!
[16:59] <highvoltage> hi balloons :)
[16:59] <balloons> http://www.screenleap.com/ubuntuqa
[16:59] <balloons> you can watch and follow along
[16:59] <balloons> ok, so that's nice having the testcase in there
[17:00] <balloons> you'll also notice the boilerplate text on the bottom for submitting your result and filing a bug
[17:00] <balloons> the bug reporting instructions are currently set at a product level
[17:01] <balloons> the testcases are defined and then grouped into testsuites which can then be used by any product
[17:01] <superm1> product meaning "ubuntu" "mythbuntu" etc?
[17:01] <balloons> superm1, yes
[17:01] <balloons> or, a package
[17:01] <balloons> like the calls for testing of the kernel
[17:01] <balloons> I'll show that quickly
[17:02] <balloons> you can see we've had a call for testing for the kernel, and it's had 2 versions
[17:02] <balloons> silly me called the 3.4 version precise1, because I was still learning the tool
[17:02] <balloons> so, there's one testcase in here, smoke test
[17:03] <balloons> similar boilerplate text
[17:03] <balloons> we're looking at (http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/223/builds/16283/testcases/1301/results)
[17:03] <balloons> filing a bug on this package has some further instructions than normal, and includes a link
[17:03] <balloons> that link is tagging the bug as well
[17:04] <balloons> if we look at installation instructions for the package, we get a howto install and howto uninstall
[17:05] <balloons> finally the detailed infromation on the testcase has the history of what the testcase looked like
[17:05] <balloons> this is useful for when we update a case, but have old results
[17:05] <balloons> the results and case will match up
[17:05] <balloons> So you can see some of my earlier attempts and playing with formatting, etc
[17:06] <balloons> ok, so let's take a look at the admin side of things
[17:07] <balloons> As you can see, we allow you to define a template for new testcases
[17:07] <balloons> heh, I changed it a bit
[17:07] <superm1> does that mean we need to work through an admin like you to make our own test cases?
[17:07] <balloons> err, actually.. there
[17:08] <balloons> the template has gone thru a couple revisions before going live
[17:08] <balloons> superm1, no it doesn't mean you'll need me to help you make testcases
[17:08] <balloons> we'll get to that in a min ;-)
[17:09] <balloons> ok, so anyways, that's the example template for a testcase as decided upon last dec by the qa community
[17:09] <balloons> it could change of course if we decided to change it.. and if so, we could update the template at that time
[17:09] <balloons> :-0
[17:09] <balloons> ok, so let's look at the testcases quickly
[17:10] <balloons> you can see my smoke test mostly follows the template -- barring it has no expected results.
[17:10] <balloons> but the admin side, you simply title it, and add the testcase
[17:10] <balloons> notice we do use some html / drupal markup
[17:10] <balloons> some is allowed and we use it to help display as well as for machine parsing
[17:11] <balloons> here's an example of an isotest testcase
[17:12] <balloons> this wiki page http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopFree has been converted into the testcase you see
[17:12] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/224/builds/16281/testcases/1306/results
[17:12] <balloons> ok, so that's testcases more or less
[17:12] <balloons> now, we can organize testcases into testsuites
[17:13] <balloons> you see the 'free software only' testcase is part of the ubuntu desktop suite
[17:13] <balloons> well.. 'ubuntu desktop extras' actually :-)
[17:13] <balloons> there are 3 tests defined in here you can see
[17:13] <balloons> I can set the order, weight and status as expected
[17:14] <balloons> now, let's go assign our testcases/testsuites to a product
[17:15] <balloons> you can see I've linked both the 'ubuntu desktop' and 'ubuntu desktop extras' testsuites to the ubuntu desktop amd64 product
[17:15] <balloons> for precise
[17:15] <balloons> now, some of this may be rather foreign to all of you, but there is a guide to this interface which I'll link to at the end
[17:16] <balloons> the new stuff I am showing you is not yet in that guide. since, it's new (as in this week new :-) )
[17:16] <balloons> now to answer superm1's question a little bit, there is a new role to the admin interface
[17:17] <balloons> we will have a testcase admin role which will allow you to define and manage the testcases
[17:17] <balloons> I've setup a team on lp to do this
[17:17] <balloons> anyone who is on the team will have access to manage testcases
[17:17] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase is the team
[17:18] <balloons> Phil graciously agreed to help trial out this new interface
[17:18] <balloons> you'll notice the team is restricted
[17:18] <balloons> my goal is not to prevent anyone from contributing, but some control is needed
[17:19] <balloons> for anyone running the tests, I would like them to be able to suggest new tests or improvements by filing a bug against ubuntu-qa
[17:19] <balloons> like any other community, make a few contributions and it will make sense to make you an admin should you wish to be
[17:20] <balloons> this is all VERY new, so I'd love input from all of you on how to shape this
[17:20] <balloons> suffice to say, the flavors should all have at least one person who has this access
[17:20] <superm1> that's what i was just going to say
[17:20] <superm1> i'm glad tgm4883 volunteered for mythbuntu
[17:20] <balloons> :-)
[17:20] <mrand> hahaha
[17:21] <balloons> I'd like everyone on the team to also make sure the tests stay maintained and not fall into dis-use or out of date
[17:22] <balloons> so it's a bit of responsibility, but not too much I don't think
[17:22] <balloons> more or less if your active in testing, you would be doing / have done this anyway
[17:22] <balloons> so questions?
[17:23] <Effenberg0x0> Balloons: Doesn't it sort of overlap with UTAH?
[17:23] <balloons> besides the testcase management piece, the new qatracker should be able to support all of our testing needs (insomuch as we want to have a test and record results)
[17:23] <balloons> it's my hope we can consolidate what we're doing by using it
[17:23] <balloons> Effenberg0x0, how so?
[17:23] <balloons> This is intended for manual testing, UTAH is intended for automated testing
[17:24] <balloons> of course, over time we will continue to close the gap on that.. how/where the results get recorded, etc
[17:24] <Effenberg0x0> I know, I mean some automated tests might kill the need for some manual test-cases
[17:24] <Effenberg0x0> How to keep things paired up
[17:25] <balloons> Effenberg0x0, my longer term view is to automate away everything that makes sense
[17:25] <balloons> the pairing up if you will of what is automated vs manual happens via our communication
[17:26] <Effenberg0x0> Ok, so the community looks at test-cases and define what's still valid or not, got it
[17:26] <balloons> this cycle once we have migrated all of our pre-existing tests over I would like to see us take a review of them
[17:26] <balloons> I took a work item personally to review the testcases for iso testing to ensure they make sense, are needed, etc
[17:26] <balloons> but yes, as a community, on an on-going basis, we should help frame what is needed for manual testing and where it makes sense for us to help
[17:27] <balloons> example of this is the kernel tests. you notice the "smoke tests" are rather simple and light
[17:27] <balloons> the intense tests are being automated by hggdh and the canonical and kernel teams
[17:27] <balloons> the manual testing piece of that is getting it out to many more different workloads and bits of hardware
[17:28] <Effenberg0x0> Ok
[17:28] <balloons> anything else?
[17:29] <balloons> If not we'll migrate onto the next piece and i'll shut down the screenshare for the time being
[17:30] <balloons> ok, so we talked about the new tracker and testcases
[17:30] <balloons> briefly I wanted to mention milestones.. Kate asked me to remind the flavors that you can skip milestones
[17:30] <balloons> but if you do commit to doing a milestone she asks you do it with full force.. aka, you see it through to the end ;-)
[17:31] <balloons> feel free to interrupt me at any time btw
[17:31] <balloons> next up we wanted to discuss collaboration
[17:31] <superm1> i haven't kept up with the thread about abolishing milestones, but what if that happens?
[17:32] <superm1> have you thought about how the tracker would scale for that?
[17:32] <balloons> superm1, yes, that thread has grown and been quite a discussion
[17:32] <balloons> from a tools point of view, our "milestones" can remain the same.. We can nothing but dailies for iso testing if needed, and calls for testing are already of variable length
[17:33] <balloons> as far as what's going to happen, I am not completely sure as it's still be discussed
[17:34] <balloons> however, from a ubuntu perspective we're being asked (again, we were asked at UDS / before UDS) to test more regularly; meaning not just at milestones
[17:35] <balloons> from that perspective nothing in theory has changed.. but the cadence of exactly when we do this "regular" testing is being suggested to be 2 weeks
[17:35] <superm1> i see, okay
[17:35] <balloons> the schedule we adopted after UDS was pretty much the same.. about every 2 weeks
[17:35] <superm1> and i understand that flavours can follow the cadence they would like in this regime too
[17:36] <balloons> yes, of course flavors can choose to follow the cadence or not
[17:36] <balloons> I recommend adopting a cadence that works for the flavor
[17:36] <balloons> considering the devs, testers, etc
[17:36] <balloons> hence, adopting every ubuntu milestone doesn't always make sense..
[17:36] <GridCube> (i could speak very very unoficially for xubuntu)
[17:36] <balloons> I liked the LTS only approach some flavors have thought about as well
[17:37] <balloons> GridCube, hello :-)
[17:37] <GridCube> :)
[17:38] <balloons> on colloborating, part of us all getting together is to talk about needs we might have and how we can work together to benefit each other
[17:38] <balloons> maintaining testcases in mutual fashion and sharing them across flavors as it makes sense, is one such example
[17:39] <balloons> but I also think we can do things like collaborated calls for testing (like we have done with the kernel testing), or on specific packages that mutliple flavors use like firefox
[17:39] <balloons> whatever it is.. floor is open to whomever has a need or idea for colloberation
[17:40] <GridCube> o/
[17:40] <balloons> yes GridCube
[17:40] <balloons> brb, type away :-)
[17:41] <GridCube> hello, i present myself, im a bug tester and support collaborator for xubuntu, i've been so for over a year now, never participated here tho.
[17:42] <GridCube> i have proposed a small change on the qa tracker a while ago, it was that the tests cases should have some sort of area, where all the reported bugs for that particular case on previous days could be seen
[17:42] <tgm4883> wait, what
[17:43]  * tgm4883 scowls at superm1
[17:43] <superm1> ;)
[17:43] <balloons> that delay!
[17:43] <balloons> epic
[17:43] <balloons> GridCube, this exists: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects
[17:44] <balloons> additionally when you look at a testcase, it has a list of previously reported bugs
[17:44] <balloons> but only for that build I believe
[17:45] <GridCube> only for that build
[17:45] <balloons> regardless, it's worth filing a bug to discuss how it might look
[17:45] <balloons> I like the idea
[17:45] <GridCube> the wishlist bug is already there
[17:45] <GridCube> im trying to find it
[17:45] <balloons> GridCube, ahh, ok, point it out to me.. I'll subscribe
[17:46] <GridCube> ok
[17:47] <GridCube> give me a sec
[17:47] <balloons> ok, so anything else.. This last piece is general Q & A time. hggdh is still around (though dealing with his flailing computer) feel free to ask any more questions
[17:47] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/994816
[17:48] <GridCube> :)
[17:48] <balloons> it appears like that was implemented?
[17:48] <balloons> ahh I think you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/994812
[17:49] <GridCube> ahm, it was like "granted" but no one actually implemented it
[17:49] <balloons> I subbed.. I'll look into it.
[17:49] <GridCube> balloons, yes those two go thogether :)
[17:49] <balloons> thanks for the suggestion
[17:50] <GridCube> no problem, i just though it would make reporting and testing easier, because people would know what to look at
[17:50] <hggdh> I am here
[17:51] <balloons> ok, so if there's no more questions we can discuss the testcase management stuff quickly.
[17:51] <balloons> The old wiki needs converted, of which I have done a couple.. In addition to converting I placed them into the new templated format
[17:52] <balloons> you can see everything in powerpc and amd64+mac has the new testcase format
[17:52] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/17586/testcases
[17:52] <balloons> I take that back, heh, 'Live Session' doesn't
[17:53] <balloons> So I will be going through and doing the same with the other testcases used by the ubuntu iso's
[17:53] <balloons> however, many of those testcases are used by the flavors as well
[17:53] <balloons> for instance, the xubuntu desktop i386 testcases
[17:54] <balloons> they use those same 4 tests
[17:54] <balloons> the only one not converted is the wubi (windows installer) testcase
[17:55] <balloons> convert that and you can convert that iso over
[17:55] <balloons> of course, the flavors can then pick and choose which tests to keep in common and which to write for themselves
[17:55] <balloons> you can pull any testcase you wish and include it with any other combination of testcases to go into a testsuite
[17:56] <balloons> the examples I gave that are live actually are 2 testsuites, so that even the testsuites can be shared across multiple isos
[17:57] <balloons> so for example, the xubuntu desktop i386 iso can use the 'ubuntu desktop' testsuite which contains all 4 testcases it's using, barring the wubi testcase
[17:57] <balloons> write the wubi testcase and then add it to a testsuite and include it on the iso
[17:57] <balloons> I trust that all makes sense :-)
[17:58] <balloons> So, please ping me to get access to help out in this area. Your iso's and testcases will remain usable as-is, (you can see the legacy mode on the tracker), but can be converted now at any time
[17:59] <balloons> let me know who is interested in joining this new team and I'll help get them going on how to use the tool, etc
[18:00] <balloons> and with that I think we're done. ;-) Thanks to you all for coming out. I appreciate your time. And thanks for suggesting we meet during the cycle. I think it was helpful
[18:00] <balloons> #endmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 21 18:00:10 2012 UTC.
[18:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-testing/2012/ubuntu-testing.2012-06-21-16.10.moin.txt
[18:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-testing/2012/ubuntu-testing.2012-06-21-16.10.html
[18:00] <Effenberg0x0> Thanks balloons
[18:00] <balloons> I'll post the log on the qa mailing list for reference.. Thanks everyone
[18:03] <hggdh> thank you balloons


[14:51] <emilsp> I know that I can depend on a service parent_serv with "start on started parent_serv" - but is it possible to make this dependency optional? i.e. only depend on parent_serv if it exists?


[02:41] <jak2000> hi all
[02:58] <thumper> smoser: lurking on your sunday?
[02:58] <thumper> smoser: I have a cloud init based question
[02:58] <smoser> quick.
[02:58] <thumper> smoser: :-)
[02:58] <thumper> context: creating an lxc template image for faster lxc local provider
[02:59] <thumper> I want the template to start up, do the package install, apt-get update/upgrade, and then shutdown
[02:59] <thumper> what is the easiest way?
[02:59] <thumper> I thought of adding "shutdown -h now" at the end of the scripts
[02:59] <thumper> bit I thought that might not have the cloud init process finish cleanly
[03:00] <thumper> maybe "shutdown -h +1m ?"
[03:01] <smoser> well, 'power_state' at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/doc/examples/cloud-config.txt is the cleanest way.
[03:01] <smoser> but that wont work in 12.04,
[03:01] <thumper> smoser: yeah, kinda need a precise solution
[03:02] <smoser> what i think i migh do is suggest writing a upstart job that runs on 'stopped cloud-final'
[03:02] <smoser> i'm pretty sure that shoudl work on all, and will guarntee that cloud-init is done.
[03:02] <thumper> smoser: so "shutdown -h +1" will give cloud init time to finish?
[03:03] <thumper> ah...
[03:03] <smoser> well, +1 is 1 minute ?
[03:03] <thumper> yeah
[03:03] <thumper> it doesn't seem to support resolution shorter than that
[03:03] <thumper> if I created an upstart job for the template
[03:03] <smoser> that should work.
[03:03] <thumper> that would be copied across to the new container
[03:03] <smoser> and the upstart job can remove itself.
[03:03] <smoser> after running.
[03:04] <thumper> interesting
[03:04] <thumper> smoser: so the upstart script would be, what, two or three lines?
[03:05] <smoser> i sweare i've written this before
[03:05] <thumper> :)
[03:05] <thumper> probably
[03:06] <thumper> haha, a google takes me to read the docs, which then has your example from above
[03:07] <thumper> smoser: you didn't implement the powerdown as an upstart job did you?
[03:07] <smoser> something like this:
[03:07] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7025430/
[03:08] <smoser> thumper, no. it forks a process that watches its pre-forked pid for exiting.
[03:08] <smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/cloudinit/config/cc_power_state_change.py
[03:08] <smoser> run_after_pid_gone
[03:10] <thumper> I'll try the upstart script approach I think
[03:10]  * thumper goes to hack it in
[03:11] <smoser> thumper, one thing you could od if you didn't trust the "remove myself"
[03:12] <smoser> is put it in /etc/init as a symlink into /run
[03:12]  * thumper waits
[03:12] <smoser> which would mean next boot it woudl definitely not be there (possibly a dangling symlink)
[03:12] <thumper> haha
[03:12] <thumper> I'll be testing it, don't stress
[03:12] <thumper> I'll try it and let you know
[03:12] <smoser> i suspect there is some sort of race condition
[03:12] <smoser> where by init could turn the system off before the job actually stopped.
[03:13] <smoser> but i really doubt it.
[03:13] <thumper> but we should delete the job, then restart :)
[03:13] <thumper> whack an echo in there too so we can see in the logs that it ran :)
[04:31] <ljv4> hello. i think someone hacked into my server box through vnc service. i'm not sure how this is possible since i had no port forwarding and i had a random password required. how can i autopsy this before reinstall?
[06:45] <raj_> "kernel: Cannot read proc file system: 1 - Operation not permitted. " getting these repeated messages  million times every minute in my syslog on 12.04 ubuntu VPS based on OpenVZ, anyone has any idea please   ???
[07:39] <raj_> "kernel: Cannot read proc file system: 1 - Operation not permitted. " getting these repeated messages  million times every minute in my syslog on 12.04 ubuntu VPS based on OpenVZ,
[07:39] <raj_> anyone has any idea please   ???
[09:59] <Pupeno_> Is there a way to construct a glob that matches all files except one?
[12:13] <hackeron> hey, I currently have this in my upstart: http://pastie.org/8835007 - are there any suggestions to clean that up a bit?
[13:33] <zul> Daviey:  around?
[13:38] <zul> Daviey/jamespage:  fyi https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1287173
[13:50] <Daviey> zul: hey
[13:51] <zul> Daviey:  can you do a quick review of python-oslo.vmware i filed a bug first #1287173
[13:53] <Daviey> zul: yes (with comment)
[13:56] <zul> Daviey:  thanks
[13:59] <Daviey> zul: you might want to raise a MIR asap.
[13:59] <Daviey> afk
[13:59] <zul> Daviey:  ack
[14:29] <zul> hallyn:  ill work on 1.2.2 this afternoon
[14:41] <axisys_> how to change the dir mode for other to be T ?
[14:42] <axisys_> like this
[14:42] <axisys_> drwx-wx--T 2 root crontab 4096 Aug 30  2013 crontabs/
[14:43] <soren> chmod o+s crontabs
[14:46] <axisys_> soren: still showing drwxr-xr-t
[15:07] <pmatulis2> anyone here authenticating to AD with sssd?
[15:09] <Patrickdk> yes
[15:10] <Patrickdk> actually, I don't think I am
[15:10] <Patrickdk> just for user attributes and group stuff
[15:10] <Patrickdk> but using radius for auth, against ad + 2factor
[15:11] <stgraber> pmatulis2: I am, well, samba4 technically but same thing on the client side anyway
[15:11] <pmatulis2> stgraber: do you need to install anything on the client beyond configuring sssd?
[15:11] <pmatulis2> stgraber: and AD doesn't require any extra bits at all?
[15:12] <Patrickdk> kerberos
[15:12] <stgraber> pmatulis2: you need ssd and samba-common on the client, that'll pull all the needed bits. You then need to configure /etc/samba/smb.conf and /etc/krb5.conf, join the domain (to grab a machine ticket), then configure sssd to use the machine ticket and the AD server(s)
[15:12] <stgraber> *sssd
[15:13] <pmatulis2> stgraber, Patrickdk: ok, thanks
[15:14] <stgraber> pmatulis2: here (domain=stgraber.net workgroup=STGRABER), http://paste.ubuntu.com/7028007/ (smb.conf), http://paste.ubuntu.com/7028009/ (krb5.conf) and http://paste.ubuntu.com/7028010/ (sssd.conf)
[15:14] <pmatulis2> this is misleading:
[15:14] <pmatulis2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Enterprise/Authentication/sssd
[15:15] <stgraber> there are some bits you probably don't need in the sssd.conf. I hardcode the domain SID to guarantee a lower uid/gid range on all machines and I have custom OUs for a few things as well as ssh and sudo support (extended schema is needed for those two)
[15:15] <pmatulis2> stgraber: that stuff will help.  thanks
[15:15] <Patrickdk> hmm, I don't remember configuring smb.conf at all
[15:15] <stgraber> pmatulis2: yeah, that documentation seems to refer to a rather old sssd, newer sssd has the ad provider which does it all for you
[15:16] <stgraber> Patrickdk: it's only really needed if you don't put a password in sssd.conf (which is usually recommended)
[15:16] <pmatulis2> stgraber: yeah, i figured id_provider should be 'ad'
[15:16] <stgraber> Patrickdk: the smb.conf is only used for the domain join (net join -U username domainname) which then generates /etc/krb5.keytab that sssd will use to authenticate
[15:16] <Patrickdk> I did do a domain join
[15:17] <Patrickdk> maybe I did, have to look it up, been a year since I setup that cluster
[15:17] <StathisA> hello,
[15:17] <stgraber> could be that the right parameters to net join also let you specify all the bits from smb.conf and not require it at all
[15:18] <StathisA> anyone know where ubuntu server has logs for the cifs & smb services?
[15:18] <stgraber> StathisA: /var/log/samba/*
[15:18] <StathisA> i just noticed in the console the following message: CIFS VFS: Send error in Close = -9
[15:19] <Patrickdk> I should continue my, trusty testing and upgrading today
[15:19] <Patrickdk> I'm sure I have many more bugs to report :)
[15:19] <stgraber> StathisA: that's a kernel message, more likely to be related to something using the cifs filesystem on the box
[15:20] <stgraber> pmatulis2: oh yeah, the config I gave you is for current sssd in trusty (which I backport for my precise boxes)
[15:20] <StathisA> but how can i find what that is?
[15:20] <StathisA> afaik smb/cifs works without any problems
[15:20] <markthomas> pmatulis2: That sssd wiki entry is incomplete.  You need to enable unix attributes in AD for it to work.
[15:21] <markthomas> At least, I had to on Friday.
[15:21] <stgraber> StathisA: well, that error just means there was some kind of bad communication with the server when disconnecting from it. Could be some network glitch, ... it can probably be ignored.
[15:21] <pmatulis2> markthomas: but you didn't put the provider as 'ad'
[15:21] <stgraber> markthomas: no you don't
[15:21] <StathisA> ok thanks stgraber
[15:21] <pmatulis2> StathisA: you can also enable a kernel-level cifs filesystem debugging ( echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/fs/cifs/cifsFYI  )
[15:22] <StathisA> hmm i now noticed that if i login to the console, it says a "system restart required"
[15:22] <StathisA> but not the reason
[15:24] <Patrickdk> StathisA, there is only one reason :)
[15:25] <Patrickdk> pending kernel upgrade
[15:28] <StathisA> so i just "sudo shutdown -r now" or do i need to initiate any updates first?
[15:28] <axisys_> crontab -e
[15:28] <axisys_> crontabs/ipin/: fdopen: Permission denied
[15:28] <axisys_> hmm.. any idea what the issue is?
[15:29] <axisys_>  ls -ld /var/spool/cron/crontabs/ipin
[15:29] <axisys_> -rw------- 1 ipin crontab 23088 Feb  6 11:39 /var/spool/cron/crontabs/ipin
[15:33] <axisys_> doh! crontabs dir group owner was not crontab .. fixed
[15:36] <axisys_> any idea what can cause ntpq> peers shows .INIT. for refid instead of IPs ?
[15:48] <fishcooker> i have login to the server box.. i want to implement those configuration to another box
[15:48] <fishcooker> how to do that?
[16:22] <axisys_> which pkg has snmp client?
[16:25] <axisys_> got it
[16:42] <jamespage> zul, the job to know about for triggering the test runs in the lab is
[16:42] <jamespage> ....
[16:43] <zul> are you telling me or are you quizzing me? :)
[16:45] <cfhowlett> lol
[16:46] <axisys> why does date for file1 shows Nov 10 and not Nov 10 2013, but date for file2 showing Aug 10 2013 ?
[16:46] <axisys> $ ls -al /tmp/file?
[16:46] <axisys> -rw-r--r-- 1 iqbala iqbala 0 Nov 10 10:10 /tmp/file1
[16:46] <axisys> -rw-r--r-- 1 iqbala iqbala 0 Aug 10  2013 /tmp/file2
[16:47] <jamespage> zul, pipeline_manual_trigger
[16:47] <jamespage> sorry - it was being slow
[16:47] <zul> jamespage:  cool ill take a look
[16:47] <jamespage> zul, fwiw I did kickoff a run on saucy last week
[16:48] <zul> how did it go?
[16:59] <jamespage> zul, can't see now
[17:00] <jamespage> zul, I think the three scenarios did pass for saucy
[17:00] <zul> jamespage:  cool...ill kick off a new one just to make sure
[17:53] <med_> zul, jamespage when will 2013.2.2 go from -proposed to -updates?  Any eta? any bug I can go verify/poke?
[17:54] <med_> ^ openstack
[17:54]  * med_ should have added that tiny bit of context
[17:57] <jamespage> med_, this week I hope
[17:58] <jamespage> needs verification still
[17:58] <med_> nodz.
[17:59] <med_> is verification a jenkins run on your end or users (like me) weighing in?
[18:02] <adam_g> jamespage: is python-keyring functional for you on trusty? python -c 'import keyring' bails on a dbug socket error, so does anything using keystoneclient
[18:03] <jamespage> adam_g, I've not had issues
[18:03] <jamespage> I'm running openstack testing from a trusty client
[18:03] <jamespage> adam_g, oh - one second - this rings a bell
[18:03] <jamespage> smoser, ^^
[18:04] <jamespage> I think you fixed me when I hit this - something in my local config
[18:04] <jamespage> adam_g, ^^ but I can't remember exactly what...
[18:04] <adam_g> jamespage: yeah ive seen similar reported a bunch in the past but never saw it myself.. till now
[18:05] <smoser> jamespage, could you please tell adam_g that I don't talk to him any more.
[18:05] <jamespage> Daviey, if you're around can you accept the openvswitch-lts-saucy binaries stuffed up in precise-proposed
[18:05] <jamespage> adam_g, smoser does not talk to you any more
[18:05] <smoser> let me look, though. i hit this in trusty and fixed somewhere.
[18:05] <jamespage> lol
[18:05] <jamespage> adam_g, hows the new desk ;-)
[18:06] <adam_g> jamespage: its cool except none of my openstack clients work anymore.  i leave for two weeks....
[18:06] <adam_g> :)
[18:06] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-keyring/+bug/1260017
[18:07] <smoser> is that what you're seeing adam_g  ?
[18:07] <smoser> i dont think you should hit the issue unless you have .local/share/python_keyring/
[18:10] <adam_g> smoser: no different
[18:10] <adam_g> er.. no, its different
[18:11] <smoser> really. hm..
[18:12] <smoser> adam_g, oh yeah, i read your issue now :) and yeah, that woudlnt fix it.
[18:12] <adam_g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7028925/
[18:12] <smoser> adam_g, try with:
[18:13] <smoser>  env -u DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS -u XDG_DATA_HOME
[18:13] <smoser> the XDG_DATA_HOME might be only a result of me using a different HOME for the way i interact with canonistack. i'm not sure.
[18:16] <smoser> maybe thats not waht you wanted, adam_g . but either something died and there is no dbus server ther to talk to you dont have perms to it.
[18:22] <adam_g> smoser: hmph. DBUG_SESSION_BUS address pointed to path different than what dbus-daemon was passed, but neither actually exist. unsetting DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS fixes it
[18:24] <smoser> adam_g, screen ?
[18:24] <smoser> ie, i get that when i log in, start a screen (it inherits variables), and then i log out.
[18:24] <adam_g> smoser: ugh yeah
[18:24] <adam_g> good point
[18:24] <adam_g> tmux
[18:25] <smoser> its why i do the uncrypted file path. as described there.
[18:25] <smoser> in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-keyring/+bug/1260017
[18:26] <Daviey> jamespage: already done by someone?
[18:26] <Daviey> Oh, sru done?
[18:26] <jamespage> Daviey, no - "Binary packages awaiting approval in NEW queue:"
[18:27] <med_> jamespage, fyi, some typoes in your blogpost (opening paragraph for sure)
[18:27] <jamespage> I just need the built binaries in -proposed so we can test them
[18:27] <jamespage> med_, oh great
[18:27] <Daviey> jamespage: Oh.. NEW
[18:27] <Daviey> jamespage: done
[18:27] <jamespage> Daviey, ta
[18:27] <med_> but EXCELLENT TOPIC
[18:28] <jamespage> med_, thanks
[18:28] <jamespage> med_, I've been negligent on blogging
[18:28] <med_> I've been trying to tell folks for a while they need to be using newer tools than plain ol' precise.
[18:28] <jamespage> med_, can't wait for " Ubuntu 14.04/Linux 3.13: N/A"
[18:29] <med_> is there something like a libvirt-saucy?
[18:29] <med_> for precise?
[18:29] <zul> hallyn/jamespage: i think libvirt 1.2.2 should be our final unless there is a compelling reason
[18:30] <hallyn> zul: i'm still hoping i'll have time to address some of the apparmor issues, but soudns good to me
[18:30] <hallyn> and maybe bug 1279176
[18:30] <med_> nevermind, that's just the cloud archive for libvirt.
[18:32] <jamespage> med_, yup
[19:03] <zul> hallyn:  arrg http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7029163/
[19:06] <hallyn> looks like just a conflict with ./dnsmasq-as-priv-user
[19:06] <hallyn> zul	^
[19:06] <zul> yeah fixing it now
[19:07] <zul> just needed to vent my spleen
[19:34] <zul> hallyn:  libvirt building now
[20:25] <zul> hallyn:  its available here when it builds: https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive/libvirt
[20:32] <hallyn> zul: i'll set up tests tonight (when my box isn't busy)
[20:32] <zul> k
[22:07] <rharper> smoser: what would you think about including virtio-scsi in the cloud-image so we could use fstrim to keep the sparse images from growing over time?  in qemu1.5, discard works against raw files, in 1.6+ works in qcow2 images.
[22:07] <smoser> rharper, how is it not there now ?
[22:07] <smoser> ie, whwat do we hae to do?
[22:07] <rharper> smoser: we use virtio-blk
[22:07] <smoser> ?
[22:08] <smoser> wouldn't that be a host level thing? how should the guest knwo which driver it should use ?
[22:08] <rharper> it';s two things
[22:09] <smoser> its not something i'd recommend we change in a released ubuntu, but in trusty, i'd push for it if its fairly well known stable.
[22:09] <rharper> the host backing device needs to support discard (ext4 fs has file punch through) or lvm which can issue discard, or host ssd.
[22:10] <rharper> yeah; I want to test the newer qemu in trusty to check out the qcow2 trim support since that's the "normal" use-case, like uvtool creating backing images etc.
[22:10] <smoser> rharper, so would there be changes to the images ?
[22:11] <rharper> only including virtio-scsi module
[22:11] <smoser> i'm confused.
[22:11] <rharper> change to the guest XML when deployed to enable virtio-scsi bus and discard support in the qemu block device
[22:11] <smoser> right. ok.
[22:11] <rharper> change in the guest OS to load up the viriio-scsi module
[22:11] <rharper> guest OS already has ext4 which can do discard
[22:11] <rharper> or fstrim
[22:12] <rharper> might need to patch up fstrim-all to make sure it things it can run against the virtio-scsi devices (it checks via hdparm and sees if it's Intel or Samsung)
[22:13] <rharper> but I know I would be really happy to not have ever growing qcow2 images for my long running virtual maas instances
[22:14] <smoser> rharper, please open a bug against linux
[22:14] <smoser> and say:
[22:14] <smoser> please include virtio-scsi in linux-virtual
[22:14] <sarnold> ooh that'd be nice, shrinking qcow2s is hassle enough I just don't do it, it'd be nice if they just did the right thing :)
[22:15] <rharper> exactly
[22:15] <smoser> sarnold, you'll have to change the way you launch vms to present that driver though
[22:15] <smoser> and you have to know if your guest supports that driver ...
[22:15] <sarnold> smoser: likely that's a one-time change, right?
[22:15] <smoser> but sometime in 16.04 you'll be able to just assume.
[22:15] <sarnold> smoser: well, I guess I'm just thinking about -my- use cases, hehe
[22:15] <sarnold> you've got a different set of cares :)
[22:16] <rharper> smoser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux ?
[22:16] <smoser> rharper, i suppose if we're already building the module for older releases and we just needed to move it, and it was know stable, we could even do it on 12.04.
[22:16] <smoser> rharper, thats right
[22:16] <smoser> but i would just use 'ubuntu-bug /boot/vmlinuz-$(uname -r)'
[22:16] <rharper> smoser: cool; I can file that from my trusty beta1 vm image
[22:17] <smoser> yeah. just run that
[22:17] <rharper> smoser: let me see what we package in 12.04
[22:17] <smoser> then follow the link
[22:17] <smoser> and fill out the data.
[22:17] <smoser> i hae to run.
[22:17] <rharper> np
[22:17] <smoser> have to run
[22:17] <rharper> thanks
[22:17] <smoser> later.
[22:25] <rharper> smoser: done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1287401
[23:19] <kaffien> ubuntu server seems to have an issue with iscsitarget  either that or something is gummed up on this mostly fresh install.   can someone point me in the right direction?   http://pastebin.com/Zp2Sb62R
[23:24] <sarnold> kaffien: looks like the iscsitarget kernel module folks need to update their source
[23:24] <sarnold> kaffien: the first warning is just a warning -- it -might- lead to kernel memory corruption but probably not. the second, the error, must be fixed by updating the source code.
[23:25] <kaffien> so i need to go back to an earlier kernel?
[23:26] <sarnold> kaffien: that's likely the easiest course of action, but it might be nice to file a bug report all the same, so the need to update doesn't get lost
[23:26] <kaffien> there are reports filed hehe
[23:26] <sarnold> good good
[23:26] <kaffien> they haven't updated since may of last year
[23:26] <kaffien> unless it moved
[23:27] <kaffien> althought this is an svc perhaps i should try from sourch on sourceforge .....
[23:31] <kaffien> bah either way  its not working with that one either
[23:31] <kaffien> how far back do i need to go do you think?
[23:33] <sarnold> kaffien: hrm, that might be hard to guess without looking into the code
[23:34] <sarnold> kaffien: I'd try the different 'stable' branches listed here, starting with newest, just because I'm optimistic :)  https://www.kernel.org/
[23:34] <kaffien> I do have a server running  3.11.0-14-generic  that is working fine with iscsitarget
[23:35] <sarnold> cool
[23:37] <kaffien> how can i tell the current server currently running trusty to go back to that kernel?
[23:38] <sarnold> kaffien: if you have an exact version number handy (dpkg -l 'linux*' | cat    on the other machine) then you can use apt-get install linux =<versionnumber>
[23:39] <kaffien> i'll give it a try
[23:46] <m1sf1t> hi, i have a problem connecting to the net in ubuntu server. apache, ssh and samba are still working fine, but apt-get doesnt work etc.
[23:47] <m1sf1t> i think it may have something to do with when i installed virtualbox, and set up windows xp
[23:47] <kaffien> that is not working  apt-get install linux-image-3.11.0-14-generic  doesn't seem to work
[23:47] <kaffien> probably becaue im on trusty now and not percise?
[23:52] <sarnold> kaffien: drat. you can find specific versions here: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/
[23:54] <sarnold> m1sf1t: you need to make sure your virtualbox thing is configured correctly, whether it is NATting your guests or whether the guests have their interfaces bridged with the local area network vs a complete isolation bridge which is sometimes set up to prevent the guests from being a security problem
[23:55] <kaffien> i should just nuke it from orbit lol
[23:55] <kaffien> grub.cfg changed a bunch to eh?
[23:56] <kaffien> thats odd i tried pasting to my server and it says this.     unable to resolve host address âarchive.ubuntu.comâ
[23:56] <kaffien> whats up with the special characters?
[23:57] <kaffien> keep in mind searching in command history does not show the special characters
[23:57] <m1sf1t> sarnold: i've just apt-get purged virtualbox... lol didnt work
[23:58] <sarnold> m1sf1t: oh, I thought your ubuntu was running in virtual box under windows :) sorry...
[23:59] <m1sf1t> sarnold: nope, it's installed on a hdd. i installed virtualbox just messing around. it was around that time that it stopped connecting to the web.
[23:59] <m1sf1t> sarnold: everything else is working fine though


[07:18] <gtriderxc> ;(Hello GTriderXC,
[07:18] <gtriderxc> Your membership in the Ubuntu Polish Translators (ubuntu-l10n-pl) team
[07:18] <gtriderxc> has expired.

[07:18] <gtriderxc> Regards,
[07:18] <gtriderxc> The Launchpad team
[07:18] <gtriderxc> ;(


[10:09] <ali1234> the version of xfwm4 in 20.04 appears to be affected by this bug https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15967
[10:12] <ali1234> (a patch is available)
[10:13] <ali1234> i'll report this to launchpad
[10:16] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1869567
[18:18] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-4-3-released-tp58068.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[19:10] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal <IP_ADDRESS> released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-9-2-released-tp58069.html (by Igor Zakharov)
[20:58] <bluesabre> ali1234: so, is it this commit that needs to be backported? https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=e5462de37a4b0a18c051e9a92ea6dce7cd7b79a8
[21:12] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.10 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-10-released-tp58075.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[21:17] <bluesabre> Unit193: interested in packaging pa-plug and screensaver? I can do session and xfwm if you want to split the work
[21:18] <bluesabre> pa-plug requires exo now, but otherwise should be straightforward... screensaver we just did the other day, so a uscan / debian / sync should do the job
[21:19] <Unit193> bluesabre: IIRC, session and -screensaver need to be uploaded sort of in sync, so I'd hold off uploading until -session was ready, for Debian at least.
[21:19] <Unit193> But yeah that sounds fair to me.
[22:09] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-6-0-released-tp58077.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
[22:09] -BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.6.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-6-0-released-tp58078.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
[22:10] <Unit193> Right!  I'm supposed to do packaging stuff for Xubuntu.  I got hung up on another team's packaging.
[22:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Still around?
[22:39] <Unit193> Nevermind.
[23:03] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/955327


[16:31] <xnox> http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2013/03/12/improving-the-fedora-boot-experience/
[16:31] <xnox> interesting


[03:27] <lucas-arg> hey guys, when i install some snap like... sudo snap install wavebox
[03:27] <lucas-arg> wavebox does not appear in the apps menus
[03:28] <lucas-arg> or gnome apps
[03:35] <lucas-arg> snap apps dont appear in gnome apps with wayland
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> reading alot of mouse lag bugs on gnome/wayland both ubuntu and fedora
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> lets hope that gets solved in final
[08:15] <passt> How do I show the top panel on both screens when using a laptop and an additional display? In the moment it is shown on the notebook only.
[08:17] <passt> eh, I test 17.10beta with gnome
[08:22] <lotuspsychje> passt: does screen settings show both screens?
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> passt: only have 1 screen here, but cant find any settings there
[08:29] <passt> yes, both screens are shown in the display settings and I don't mirror the screen
[08:30] <lotuspsychje> passt: how about the Fn + F(screen) key does that do something usefull when switch?
[08:39] <passt> I don't understand what you want me to do?
[09:36] <passt> problem is solved. After I setup the external screen as the only screen and then set it back to expand desktop to each screen, the external screen kept the top panel.
[10:32] <passt> Virtualbox seamless mode doesn't work as expected. When  I switch to seamless mode with win7 as the guest and maximize a window, the window isn't shown fully maximized. The window of the program covers the size of the area which it had before I started to maximize it.
[10:32] <passt> Does anybody know this behaviour in ubuntu with virtualbox before or is it a bug in the beta version?
[10:33] <passt> Btw when I resize the program window with the mouse, It is shown correctly.
[15:25] <madigens> hi! how do i get a wayland session in artful? in both virtualbox and on a laptop with some radeon 5xxx igp i can't select it on the login screen
[16:25] <dchotas> hey guys, can anyone help me understanding what's causing my fresh install to hang/freeze when I try to shut it down or restart? I've enabled the debug shell as per a recommendation on stack overflow and extracted my dmesg before the last REISUB. http://termbin.com/8lf0
[16:28] <TJ-> dchotas: looks like a fault in the wifi kernel driver
[16:29] <dchotas> I've looked around for drivers for this specific wireless card and up untill fairly recently, it wasn't supported natively and I've seen some thread on stack overflow where people download backports for 4.4 and compile just the ath10k driver.
[16:29] <TJ-> dchotas: starting at 46.333111 looks like there's some problem with the pcie bus/hardware comms
[16:29] <dchotas> But the driver is supported now
[16:29] <dchotas> the card, I mean
[16:29] <TJ-> [   29.852463] pcieport 0000:00:1c.5: AER: Multiple Corrected error received: id=00e5
[16:30] <dchotas> TJ-: I not so strong in driver/firmware related issues, what would be a good place to start?
[16:32] <dchotas> the card is a Qualcomm Atheros QCA9377
[16:33] <TJ-> dchotas: it could be caused by problems in the Mobo firmware. I see you've got kernel commandline "acpi=force" - that is very unusual and if needed points to a problem
[16:33] <TJ-> dchotas: why is that needed?
[16:34] <dchotas> I just blindly follower a stack overflow thread when I was searching for 'ubuntu restart/shutdown hanging' without specifying the underlying issue
[16:34] <dchotas> I'll remove that, thanks for the reminder
[16:35] <TJ-> dchotas: also at the start I notice the MTRR couldn't build an optimum set.
[16:35] <dchotas> I could give this a try
[16:35] <dchotas> although I'd had to figure out to to compile it for my specific card and put it in the right place
[16:35] <dchotas> https://github.com/kvalo/ath10k-firmware
[16:36] <dchotas> s/had/have
[16:36] <TJ-> dchotas: you might try with "noaer" instead for those, but I'm not clear if they're related to the driver bugs later
[16:39] <TJ-> dchotas: does it happen if you prevent the Wifi from associating?
[16:39] <dchotas> You mean not letting the card connect to any network?
[16:41] <dchotas> I'll try that, brb.
[16:45] <TJ-> dchotas: looks like it's something to do with hardware-offload of the TX A-MPDU aggregation. So could be the firmware on the device. any later firmwares available? See https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/80211/mac80211-advanced.html#tx-a-mpdu-aggregation
[16:49] <dchotas> TJ-: Simply trying to disable Wifi while it is connect will cause the settings UI to crash and force close. Also after restarting with airplane mode `on` the freeze didn't happen.
[16:49] <TJ-> dchotas: which does seem to confirm it
[16:51] <TJ-> dchotas: I'd first try to find a newer wifi firmware because it seems to be a firmware issue, in that the ath10k_pci driver asks it to stop the ba session and will callback to the kernel's 80211 syb-system when the firmware says done. But what is happening is the callback never happens so the kernel gets stuck and you see those stack traces for the stuck threads
[16:51] <dchotas_> Sorry, got logged out for some reason, might've missed somethign you said.
[16:52] <dchotas_> Hmm, I should probably give the firmwares on that ath10k repo a spin.
[16:52] <dchotas_> Can I just backup the existing .bin file and dump the other one in it's place?
[16:53] <jbicha> dchotas_: that crash may be fixed in gnome-control-center 1:3.26.1-0ubuntu1 which should be in updates sometime today
[16:53] <dchotas_> jbicha: thanks for the heasds up!
[17:05] <dchotas> TJ-: Apparently the files on that github as exactly the same as the ones I have in /lib/
[17:06] <TJ-> dchotas: might be worth filing a bug on kernel bugzilla


[11:02] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-7-released-tp54950.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[11:07] <Unit193> Just a translation update?
[11:28] <bluesabre> Yes
[11:32] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: catfish 1.4.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-catfish-1-4-8-released-tp54951.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[12:05] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 1.0.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-1-0-3-released-tp54955.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[14:49] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.13.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-13-4-released-tp54959.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
[15:11] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.6.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-6-4-released-tp54961.html (by Romain Bouvier)
[15:32] <gnutec> Codeblocks or glade?
[23:54] <Unit193> I guess here fits?  bluesabre: I don't suppose you have any opinions on that email you just got?


[06:34] <Rituraj> hello..
[06:34] <Rituraj> ?!
[06:35] <benonsoftware> Hello Rituraj
[06:35] <Rituraj> hello..
[06:36] <Rituraj> so wht's going on buddy?


[13:09] <gary_poster> gmb, to your knowledge is there a way to get to https://qastaging.launchpad.net/~gary/+structural-subscriptions right now?
[13:09] <gary_poster> I mean, via a link exposed in Launchpad?
[13:10] <gary_poster> and hi btw :-)
[13:10] <gmb> gary_poster: Hi. Nope, you can only get there by URL hacking.
[13:10] <gary_poster> ok cool thanks gmb
[13:11] <gmb> gary_poster: btw, I took on adding a mute button as it's a relatively simple change for me to tackle before the end of the week and won't block anyone if I don't finish it.
[13:11] <gary_poster> gmb, sweet, thanks
[13:11] <gary_poster> heh, the kanban representation is a bit unorthodox, but whatever :-)
[13:14] <gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, hi.  We'll do our delivery meeting after the standup (https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow#Due%202011-02-18).  If you need us to get a particular branch to show off your work (or some other preparation) please let us know beforehand.
[13:21] <gary_poster> danilos, Benji and I talked yesterday about "Every structural subscription should have a filter."  He'll also need it for his work.  I said you'd be working on it, and lo and behold, you are. :-) He suggested that we could have a script that we could do this in three steps: 1) make a script that gradually adds a "include everything" filter to all structural subscriptions that do not have a filter, and get that
[13:21] <gary_poster> running on the production database.   3) make a db patch that enforces this for next db rollout.  That sounded like a nice plan, because it would mean that we could rely on a filters being around after step 2 was rolled out and step one reported that it didn't see any more structural subscriptions
[13:21] <gary_poster> without filters (and before a db rollout, which would help him).  So I pass that along for your consideration, if you haven't thought of it already.
[13:22] <danilos> gary_poster, we have only around 23k StructuralSubscriptions atm, so we can create matching BugSubscriptionFilters during a DB rollout as well
[13:23] <danilos> gary_poster, also, just having a BugSubscriptionFilter is enough for it to be all-inclusive (i.e. no need to set it to all statuses or something like that)
[13:24] <danilos> gary_poster, so, I already have a branch where I am doing 1 and 2, and I thought about enforcing it in the DB directly, but that kinda gets ugly (multi-table constraints are ugly)
[13:24] <gary_poster> danilos, ok.  The only advantage of the other plan is that we don't have to be blocked by a db rollout for work on bug 674422.  Ack and agree on just having a BugSubscriptionFilter
[13:24] <_mup_> Bug #674422: Add a workflow to update StructuralSubscriptions <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/674422 >
[13:24] <bac> gary_poster: my branch is at lp:~bac/launchpad/accordionoverlay -- i added it to the wiki page along with a screenshot
[13:24] <danilos> gary_poster, I can still land it on devel, sure :)
[13:24] <gary_poster> danilos: ack and awesome, sounds perfect
[13:25]  * gary_poster has not written multi-table constraints so was speaking naively
[13:25] <gary_poster> bac, awesome thank you
[13:25] <danilos> gary_poster, as for the migration for existing data, we can ask for a manual DB query run as well
[13:25] <gary_poster> danilos, you don't think it would produce a particularly long transaction?
[13:26] <danilos> gary_poster, it'd be best to check it, I'll prepare a query and have it tested on staging
[13:26] <gary_poster> cool thanks danilos
[13:26] <danilos> np
[13:28] <gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, apologies for spamming you with IRC messages today, but here's the usual reminder: mumble/kanban in 2
[13:28] <benji> I like reminders.
[13:28] <gary_poster> :-)
[13:28] <bac> +1
[13:45] <danilos> lib/lp/bugs/javascript/bugtask_index.js
[13:46] <danilos> lib/lp/bugs/javascript/bugtask_index_portlets.js
[14:01] <bac> gmb, benji: I'd like to have a mid-imp sanity-check call today at your conveniences
[14:02] <benji> bac: cool, I'll get with you after this call
[14:02] <gmb> bac: I'll be available at the same time as benji
[14:26] <danilos> hum, any suggestions for a catch-all BugSubscriptionFilter.description that we'll be creating? I am thinking 'Default', 'Catch-all' or empty
[14:26] <danilos> (Catch-all might be inappropriate if for the first actual filter we reuse this one)
[14:28] <danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, a transaction on staging to insert 23k BugSubscriptionFilters took 3.5s (iow, a full "migration"), so I believe we can do it live on the production DB as well
[14:31] <gary_poster> danilos OK awesome.  I suspect we need to clear it with lifeless and/or stub?
[14:32] <danilos> gary_poster, yeah, we'll need to clear it with a TL, and I'd definitely like to have stub look it over and confirm replication won't have trouble catching up either
[14:33] <danilos> gary_poster, at least it was previously a policy for a TL to be able to approve queries :)
[14:33] <danilos> gary_poster, so it can be you as well :)
[14:33] <gary_poster> danilos, ok, I'm happy to give it a TL OK if stub approves. :-)
[14:33] <danilos> gary_poster, excellent, thanks
[14:34] <danilos> gary_poster, the only thing I need to come up with is the BugSubscriptionFilter.description value we want these entries to have
[14:34] <danilos> benji, considering you had a need for this as well, any opinion? :)
[14:35] <gary_poster> ...I'm inclined to not put in a description (or empty string if necessary)
[14:35] <gary_poster> because that's how a subscription will look like be default when you add one manually
[14:35] <gary_poster> IIUC
[14:36] <gary_poster> danilos, so you see any issues with that?
[14:37] <danilos> gary_poster, no, it's one of the options I considered as well, the only worry I have is that we'll have to make sure our implementation reuses this filter when a first "real" filter is created (or people will get all emails without realizing it is due to this catch-all filter)
[14:38] <danilos> gary_poster, though, we'd want to make sure our implementation does that for more than this reason, so I don't see it as a real issue
[14:40] <gary_poster> precisely, danilos
[14:56] <bac> hi benji, gmb: i'm having some issues on my desktop.  if you proposed a meeting time i missed it.
[14:56] <benji> bac: any time
[14:57] <bac> benji: ok, let's wait for gmb
[14:57] <benji> k
[14:57] <gmb> I'm free any time too.
[14:58] <gmb> Let me re-headphone myself and I'll join you on mumble
[14:58] <gmb> bac, benji : Ready when you are
[14:59] <bac> gmb: can you grab that branch i posted earlier on the wiki?
[14:59] <gmb> bac: The accordionoverlay branch?
[14:59] <bac> yes
[15:16] <gary_poster> hey gmb, I thought malone-alpha team people would have the new JS widget on production now, but I don't see it.  Is that expected?
[15:16] <gmb> Hrm.
[15:16]  * gmb looks
[15:16] <gary_poster> you are probably on call--no worries, reply when you can
[15:16] <gmb> I'm not, actually
[15:16] <gmb> Surprisingly :)
[15:16] <gary_poster> oh ok cool
[15:16] <gary_poster> :-)
[15:17] <gmb> gary_poster: Hmm. WFM.
[15:17] <gary_poster> oh!
[15:17] <gmb> Let me check your membership of malone-alpha...
[15:17] <gary_poster> I'm a member of https://launchpad.net/~malone-alpha
[15:18] <gmb> Yeah.
[15:18] <gmb> gary_poster: What page are you looking at that you're not seeing the overlay on?
[15:18] <gmb> Maybe it's a jS problem.
[15:19] <gary_poster> Maybe it's user problem.  https://launchpad.net/lazr.restful , clicking "Subscribe to bug mail...oh!!! duh. :-P
[15:19] <gary_poster> There we go
[15:19] <gary_poster> direct subscriptions work finr
[15:19] <gary_poster> fine
[15:19] <gary_poster> sorry :-P
[15:19] <gmb> gary_poster: Yeah, it's bac and benji who are on the hook for the other one :)
[15:19] <gary_poster> :-)
[15:20] <gary_poster> cool, thanks gmb
[15:20] <gmb> np
[15:20] <gary_poster> gmb, have we announced to malone-alpha people?  Should I do that next week or today or something?
[15:20] <gmb> gary_poster: I meant to do it earlier this week but mockups ate most of my time. If you could announce it that would be awesome.
[15:21] <gary_poster> cool, will do.
[15:21] <gmb> Thanks
[15:21] <gary_poster> np
[15:39] <gary_poster> danilos, with your work for bug 720826, it will be trivial to then have the email link back to "unsubscribe" include information on what filters caused the email to be sent, right?  The information will already have to be available.
[15:39] <_mup_> Bug #720826: Add subscription description header for bug notifications <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by danilo> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/720826 >
[15:39] <danilos> gary_poster, that's what I expect, yes
[15:40] <gary_poster> cool thanks danilos
[15:40] <danilos> gary_poster, i.e. I will be introducing a link to the actual BugSubscriptionFilter on BugNotification table
[15:40] <gary_poster> danilos, I was wondering about that, only one?
[15:40] <gary_poster> may need to be many to one
[15:41] <gary_poster> one way r another
[15:41] <gary_poster> or
[15:41] <danilos> gary_poster, well, each notification is for one action, so when we construct the email, we should worry about that side
[15:41] <danilos> gary_poster, one email includes multiple BugNotifications, so that's how you get one-to-many
[15:41] <gary_poster> danilos, but an action may have been sent because of multiple filters
[15:41] <gary_poster> I'm not sure we have to worry about this, but it should be a conscious decision not to
[15:41] <danilos> gary_poster, hum, right, good point
[15:42] <danilos> gary_poster, I am not going to even start on that today (I hope only to finish auto-creation of BugSubscriptionFilter by the EOD)
[15:42] <gary_poster> danilos, cool, I won't stop you, but it can be in the back of your head for Monday
[15:44] <danilos> gary_poster, right, I'll have to think about it, though I am pretty sure that we'd have to restructure our code for that as well (i.e. maybe a notification gets sent atm when a first filter is matched), but I don't expect that to be a big deal
[15:45] <gary_poster> danilos, yeah, was thinking similarly, though I was merely *hoping* it was not going to be a big deal ;-)
[15:46] <danilos> gary_poster, heh :)
[15:56] <gary_poster> benji, I have this in my notes from this morning: " * We Should Do Something about mentioning that request/features always works in templates, and features only sometimes works."  Can I change that to "Benji will announce or document that request/features always works in templates, and features only sometimes works, and propose that request/features be the One True Way."?
[15:57] <gary_poster> May I change that. :-)
[15:58] <benji> gary_poster: sure; I'll do so by replying to Marin Pool's recent documentation effort email.
[15:59] <gary_poster> cool thanks benji
[16:02]  * benji lunches.
[16:25] <gary_poster> gmb, unless you mind, I'm gonna move the kanban card for bug 204980 into quick jobs, so feature work 1 is more focussed. I'm then going to add a card for an API to get a person's structural subscriptions for a bug's tasks, as we described on the call.  Can I move the two mockup related cards in feature work 1/review over to Done/Done?
[16:25] <_mup_> Bug #204980: bug contacts should be able to unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions <canonical-losa-lp> <lp-bugs> <motu> <story-better-bug-notification> <ubuntu-upstream-relations> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by gmb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/204980 >
[16:26] <gary_poster> oh and another hand-off: can you make sure that we know how to qa the two cards in QA/landing?
[16:26] <gary_poster> (the two cards of yours, I mean)
[16:27] <gmb> gary_poster: In order: 1) Well, you can move it, but I don't think it's a quick job after all (will explain in an email, but basically it breaks things in an intereting fashion). 2) Okay, 3) Sure, 4) Certainly.
[16:27] <gary_poster> 1,huh, ok
[16:27] <gary_poster> and the rest, ok thanks :-)
[16:28] <gmb> gary_poster: Quick summary of problem #1: All the JS works fine, but Zope subsequently says "LOLWUT?" when you've muted a bug, due to the validation we do for the +subscribe page.
[16:28] <gary_poster> Oh! So, you have a nice way to turn everything on and off, but the muting itself is a problem
[16:28] <gmb> Right.
[16:29] <gary_poster> I see. :-/
[16:29] <gmb> BUT.
[16:29] <gmb> I think I can see ways through it.
[16:29] <gmb> So I'll file bugs (oh for bug relationships) about that and summarise the order I think things need to be addressed in an email to the team.
[16:30] <gary_poster> cool thanks gmb.  um...I wonder what we should do about the janban board.
[16:30] <gary_poster> or kanban
[16:30] <gmb> gary_poster: Well, can we move that card back to the backlog without breaking stats or something?
[16:30] <gary_poster> no not really :-P :-)
[16:30] <gmb> Ah.
[16:30] <gmb> Bother.
[16:30] <gmb> gary_poster: Well, let's do this:
[16:31] <gmb> 1. Update the card to reflect that what I'm *actually* going to do today is land incremental but non-user-impacty stuff
[16:31] <gary_poster> I was going to suggest we delete it and remake it, or change it to "investigate" and move it to archive/done
[16:31] <gmb> Or that.
[16:31] <gmb> That seems simpler
[16:31] <gmb> Simple wins.
[16:31] <gmb> gary_poster: I'll do the latter.
[16:32] <gary_poster> ok cool
[16:32] <gary_poster> that sounds like a reasonable compromise between easy and reflecting reality
[16:32] <gmb> Right.
[16:32] <gary_poster> (change it into a task card too please, and remove the bug number or the kanban board will whine and complain)
[16:33] <gary_poster> (or at last it does in my experience, when you try to make a new one with the same number)
[16:33] <gmb> Done
[16:33] <gary_poster> cool thanks
[16:34] <gary_poster> then if you could claim a backlog lane for the tasks/bugs for this, with a new feature card for the bug number, that would be fab
[16:34] <gmb> Sure, will do.
[16:42]  * gmb -> afk for half an hour or so to braindump my thoughts about hte mute button
[16:42] <gary_poster> cool
[17:08]  * gary_poster lunching
[17:09] <gary_poster> https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Strategy/2011RelCalDraft <- maybe useful
[17:09] <gary_poster> Might become https://dev.launchpad.net/Releases/2011Calendar
[17:30] <gmb> gary_poster: Brain dump: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/MuteButton. Filing bugs now.
[18:18]  * gary_poster no longer lunching, now reading.  Thanks
[18:21] <gary_poster> gmb, reading that page, one of the first thoughts I had was "I wonder if the enumeration is the wrong way to express muting"
[18:21] <gmb> gary_poster: Possibly. I can't remember what we said we were going to do with the enumeration on direct subscriptions.
[18:21] <gary_poster> A BugMuteTable that contains records of person, bug for thinsg that should be muted might be better
[18:22] <gmb> I suspect so. My thinking is couched in terms of years of "oh, we used to have Ignore Subscriptions" cruft.
[18:22] <gmb> The BugMute table solves more problems. OTOH, it needs yet another DB patch, but maybe that's not so terrible.
[18:23] <danilos> my branch for always creating a BugSubscriptionFilter when a SS is created is up for review, though I'm about to leave for the week
[18:23] <gary_poster> At this point, I think that's a sunk cost
[18:23] <danilos> gary_poster, fyi ^
[18:24] <gmb> True.
[18:24] <gary_poster> danilos, ok cool.  Do you want me to try and land it if the review flies by?
[18:24] <danilos> gary_poster, query already approved by Stuart, and I'll have it added as a special rollout requirement
[18:24] <gary_poster> great danilos
[18:24] <danilos> gary_poster, yeah, that'd be nice, I am putting it through ec2 test anyway (already under way)
[18:25] <gary_poster> cool danilos.
[18:25] <gmb> gary_poster: I'm sanguine about going either way with muted subscriptions. Simpler is better, and BugMute seems simpler.
[18:25] <danilos> cheers, enjoy the weekend all
[18:25] <gary_poster> cheers danilos
[18:26] <gary_poster> gmb, are you still here for another 34, or are you 26 over?
[18:26] <gmb> gary_poster: I'm 26 over and about to head down for dinner.
[18:26] <gary_poster> OK cool, then I won't bother you
[18:26] <gary_poster> Have great vacation!
[18:26] <gmb> Will do, thanks.
[18:27]  * gmb -> exeunt, in pursuit of not thinking about JavaScript
[18:27] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:18] <gary_poster> I've decided to take Monday off, so I'll see y'all Tuesday.  Have a great weekend.


[12:20] <bac> hi luca__, i've got a branch that implements the feedback box.  do you have a moment to have a look?
[12:23] <gary_poster> I increased limit to story  1 to 6
[12:38] <gary_poster> frankban, thank you for fixing the test problem introduced by the new charm cookie functionality.  AFAICT the most recent failure is different: the appflower search didn't ever actually execute on FF...when it had just worked before.  :-/  are you looking at that as well?  would you like to pass the new error to someone else?
[12:39] <bac> gary_poster: the feedback form translates google-supplied content to spanish for me.  The last checkbox of the first question is 'otros' and the button is labeled 'Enviar'.
[12:40] <rick_h> gary_poster: is it looking at the live data for that?
[12:40] <rick_h> gary_poster: because appflower isn't in the 'interesting' data atm and that will change over time
[12:40] <gary_poster> bac, huh.  PR?
[12:40] <bac> gary_poster: yeah, but i presume it would do it for any non-english region
[12:41] <gary_poster> rick_h, live data, but we do an explicit search (we type it in and press enter)
[12:41] <frankban> gary_poster: morning, yes the new error is different, and unexpected. Is there a 30m timeout for jenkins tests?
[12:41] <bac> i'm always battling google to speak english to me
[12:41] <rick_h> gary_poster: ok, charms can be deleted. If you're doing an explicit search I'd suggest using something we use/want to keep around like mongodb or apache or something
[12:41] <gary_poster> bac, uh.  ok.  any suggested actions?
[12:41] <gary_poster> frankban, yes there is
[12:42] <bac> gary_poster: not at this time
[12:42] <frankban> gary_poster: perhaps now the suite takes more and we could just increase it?
[12:43] <gary_poster> bac, ok thanks.  I already asked luca to investigate whether we had a surveymonkey account we could use, because the lawyer told me that Google's TOS means that they can use our data too, or at least it is unclear.
[12:43] <bac> teknico: does google render any of this in italian for you?  https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/forms/d/1Me4macMBX6KydCYyCC6YEjKnpCKakQCYlGlGxIB6Z0w/viewform?pli=1
[12:43] <gary_poster> rick_h, noted, good pointm thanks.
[12:45] <gary_poster> frankban, ok I increased it to 45.  That looks like a different problem though, yeah?  when I watch the video the search never executes.  it does appear to be intermittent though :-/ : the re-run succeeded.
[12:46] <frankban> gary_poster: last jenkins run succeeded in 27 minutes. the previous one failed after 29m. if jenkins quit the driver on timeout a stale element error could be related
[12:46] <gary_poster> frankban, ah ok.  thanks, good possibility.
[12:47] <gary_poster> hey world, these branches need reviews:
[12:47] <gary_poster> https://codereview.appspot.com/10401043/
[12:47] <gary_poster> https://codereview.appspot.com/10397045/
[12:48] <gary_poster> hey luca__ I will triage your bugs from Monday as high.  Huw has a question for you on https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1191868, though
[12:48] <_mup_> Bug #1191868: There is no dark grey hover over on alerts <charmbrowser> <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191868>
[12:51] <gary_poster> matsubara, when you get back to tarmac, please increase the tarmac jenkins job timeout from 30 minutes to 45 minutes (assuming you have set one).  How is tarmac going?  I suspect you have a lot of projects going at once
[12:55] <matsubara> gary_poster, yes, lots of things to do. I think I should have something to test later on today (in any case I'll do my tests in the jujugui-trunk-merger job to not mess with your workflow)
[12:55] <gary_poster> thanks matsubara !
[12:55] <matsubara> gary_poster, did you change the job to run under 45 on jenkins?
[12:55] <gary_poster> matsubara, I changed the job we use but not the tarmac job (didn't look for that one and don't have bookmark :-P )
[12:56] <matsubara> gary_poster, thanks. the other one is disabled so should be ok
[12:56] <gary_poster> cool thanks matsubara
[12:57] <matsubara> np
[13:00] <luca__> gary_poster: I'll take a look now
[13:03] <gary_poster> luca__, thank you.  also, I'm not clear on how drastic the changes will be to the masthead from the current round of redesign.  should I ask for your three bugs to be fixed, because subsequent changes will also be relatively small; or should I wait until the full masthead changes are settled?
[13:04] <teknico> bac: in Chromium everything is in English. In Firefox the last checkbox of the first question is named 'Altro', the submit button is labeled 'Invia', and there's more Italian text below the button.
[13:05] <BradCrittenden> teknico: that's what i see in chromium (but in spanish).  in safari all is english
[13:05] <luca__> gary_poster: considering that we've all decided to implement the new design I think they should be classed as low priority. Alerts will no longer live in the masthead, for example. However, If Huw has time then it might be good to fix just in case we can't implement the new stuff.
[13:05] <gary_poster> luca__, ok.  I'll put them at low priority for now.  I'm optimistic. :-)
[13:05] <gary_poster> (that we can implement the new stuff)
[13:06] <gary_poster> thanks
[13:17] <rick_h> orangesquad: appliance guy supposed to arrive in 20min so might be a few min late to standup while i point him at our dryer. FYI
[13:22] <marcoceppi> Hey guys, do you need to do anything special to deploy juju-gui on 0.7?
[13:23] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, pyJuju 0.7?
[13:23] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: yup
[13:23] <marcoceppi> someone's getting the "connecting to environment" circle screen on 0.7 in #juju
[13:24] <marcoceppi> iirc, last time i deployed against pyjuju it just worked(tm)
[13:24] <gary_poster> not to our knowledge marcoceppi .  our primary tests are still with that.  I'll head over to #juju
[13:24] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: thanks!
[13:33] <abentley> jcsackett: ping for standup
[13:33] <jcsackett> abentley: ack, was searching for headset.
[13:43] <gary_poster> jujugui, is there anyone who is willing to  try to help a smart user on #juju who is trying to diagnose a problem like https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1180095 ?  right now he wants to look at haproxy logs, and I don't kbnow where they are, and don't have time to dig in.
[13:43] <_mup_> Bug #1180095: GUI charm may have difficulties working with Juju on MAAS <juju-gui:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180095>
[13:43] <gary_poster> he is mixired
[13:44] <gary_poster> maxired
[13:46] <bac> gary_poster: do you want to land the feedback pointing to google form or wait for resolution on the alternative?
[13:46] <gary_poster> bac land it, unless you disagree
[13:47] <bac> gary_poster: ok, i wasn't sure how creeped out you were about G's TOS
[13:49] <gary_poster> bac, not enough to worry about it ATM.  I think we should start collecting if we can.
[13:49] <bac> rt
[13:54] <benji> rick_h: I could use some YUI help if you have a minute
[13:59] <rick_h> benji: definitely
[13:59] <rick_h> benji: guichat?
[13:59] <benji> rick_h: +1
[14:00] <rick_h> benji: taken
[14:03] <abentley> jcsackett: It looks like The Verge lets you share articles on G+.  The first click is a +1, and then when you hover, you get a box to share the article.  http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/19/4443588/pindrop-acoustic-analysis-fights-phone-fraud-social-engineering
[14:04] <jcsackett> abentley: thanks!
[14:05] <abentley> np
[14:09] <jcsackett> abentley: so, it looks like what that's doing is +1 the g+ post verge makes for the article.
[14:10] <abentley> jcsackett: Oh, so not so applicable.
[14:10] <abentley> jcsackett: Sorry.
[14:10] <jcsackett> abentley: yeah.
[14:10] <jcsackett> abentley: no, still good to see. it's possible that's a road we'll want to go down.
[14:11] <jcsackett> i mean, it's not one *i* want to go down... :-P
[14:11] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm envisioning a bot that posts a new story every time a charm is updated...
[14:12] <jcsackett> abentley: we can just bolt that into ingest, right? ;-P
[14:12] <gary_poster> :-)
[14:12]  * abentley really doesn't get why G+ won't release a write API.
[14:13] <jcastro> because people will spam it
[14:13] <jcastro> it'll end up worthless like twitter
[14:21] <rick_h> jcastro: abentley might know a good way to reset the MP to a non-mimms state.
[14:21] <rick_h> abentley: jcastro was just asking about the bug about the missing proposals ^
[14:21] <rick_h> abentley: I showed him the bug with your comment. Maybe you can help him un-fubar the missing ones?
[14:21] <abentley> jcastro: Just request ~charmers as a reviewer.
[14:22] <maarten__> Hi. I installed ppa:juju/devel and the arrows between the services keep on changing positions...
[14:29] <gary_poster> maarten__, hi.  I'm not clear on what you are reporting, I'm afraid.  You installed pyJuju from the PPA, and you installed the GUI charm, I'm guessing, and then what services/arrows are you referring to?
[14:30] <maarten__> I installed gojuju and when I use the juju gui, the position of the arrows and the services changes and they are not connected.
[14:32] <gary_poster> maarten__, thank you for the report.  Is this something you can screenshot?
[14:38] <maarten__> gary_poster,just send you the screenshot
[14:45] <gary_poster> maarten__, thanks for screenshot.  we have not seen this before.  automatic service position changes are supposed to happen, but only if someone else connected to the same environment moves the service (positioning is shared).  In that case, of course, relations should maintain positions with their associated services.  Does anyone else have access to the GUI who might be moving service positions?
[15:00] <gary_poster> maarten__, sent you a reply and filed bug 1192596.  Moving services is expected in a shared environment, & a big surprise otherwise.
[15:00] <_mup_> Bug #1192596: Relation endpoints can get misaligned (after annotation update changes service positions?) <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192596>
[15:01] <gary_poster> Makyo, if you have availability could you add this bug to maintenance in kanban, and if you have further availability could yo uinvestigate?
[15:01] <Makyo> gary_poster, sure.
[15:02] <gary_poster> thank you Makyo
[15:04] <gary_poster> jujgui, after daily call I would like to talk to people about some "bundle" design decisions.  If you are at all interested, please take a look at the definitions and the Q & A  of https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1gDspsjnYf1NqDvgyTqRCxtek5JWULMwSfTLwiZn12Nk/edit#
[15:04] <gary_poster> before the meeting, as a prep
[15:05] <gary_poster> core question: am I right that using/incproprating the juju-deployer is the right decision?
[15:05] <gary_poster> incorporating
[15:08] <gary_poster> rick_h, hatch, if you want to attend shared web meeting https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/cd640721e4194224f0768c6ca181bb8ba92e7b1a
[15:13] <bac> luca__: i'd really like you to look at my implementation of the feedback box.  the review is at https://codereview.appspot.com/10407044
[15:14] <Makyo> Who is doing "find all tests that change URL and stop them from doing so" in maintenance?
[15:14] <Makyo> jujugui ^^^
[15:14] <teknico> Makyo: oops, it's me
[15:14] <rick_h> Makyo: teknico had a branch for that
[15:14] <Makyo> teknico, I'll put your face on it.
[15:14] <Makyo> teknico, thanks, too.  That's annoying :)
[15:14] <teknico> too late :-)
[15:15] <teknico> (meaning, I just did it)
[15:15] <teknico> sorry about that
[15:15] <benji> rick_h: I can't figure out how to get the charm tokens to be draggable out of the side bar.
[15:24] <rick_h> benji: otp, back in a sec
[15:30] <jcsackett> luca__: got a bit to chat on g+?
[15:30] <rick_h> jcsackett: he's otp with us atm
[15:30] <luca__> jcsackett: currently in a call :)
[15:42] <abentley> orangesquad: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/ignore-oneiric/+merge/170386 ?
[15:44] <jcsackett> abentley: looking
[15:45] <teknico> hatch: you around?
[15:46] <hatch> sort of :)
[15:46] <hatch> what's up?
[15:46] <teknico> I have one single test that's not running anymore, and I cannot locate it: lp:~teknico/juju-gui/test-interdep-cleanup
[15:47] <rick_h> benji: so I think you can only drag within the 'container'. I wonder if you make the container the <body> if it might work?
[15:48] <rick_h> benji: or maybe there's some tweak to that we can ask around in #yui or #yui-hatch :)
[15:48] <benji> rick_h: nope, I tried that
[15:48] <teknico> hatch: there should be 950 tests but only 949 run in make test-server, and make test-prod does not output the number of tests at the end, as it does when some of them did not run
[15:48] <rick_h> benji: ok /me goes to check css overflow rules on that sidebar div.
[15:49] <benji> rick_h: I removed the overflows and it had no effect
[15:49] <rick_h> benji: ok, one step ahead of me then.
[15:49] <benji> :)
[15:49] <hatch> teknico it's building
[15:49] <teknico> hatch: thank you
[15:49] <rick_h> benji: yea, then that's the only top of my head stuff I can think of. I'd hit up #yui and bug hatch for his previous DnD experience. I've not used it enough to say anything else without getting really into it
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10, kanban now.
[15:50]  * benji reluctantly heads over to #yui.
[15:51] <hatch> benji: do you have 'constrain2node' set?
[15:52] <benji> hatch: not knowingly
[15:52] <hatch> ok you'd know heh
[15:53] <hatch> I've never seen it
[15:53] <hatch> it should set it to position absolute and then you're gtg
[15:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 2
[16:00] <rick_h> benji: let me know when the call is up. I have one more idea to check
[16:00] <hatch> teknico: I thought that your branch stopped these GET requests?
[16:01] <teknico> hatch: which ones?
[16:01] <hatch> well when you run the tests in the console there is a TON of GET requests to get the json data
[16:02] <hatch> Application start up sets the window.flags data:  expected undefined to deeply equal {}
[16:02] <hatch> ^ teknico
[16:02] <hatch> there is your failure
[16:02] <jcsackett> abentley: r=me.
[16:05] <rick_h> benji: the css rule on .bws-content is interfering with it. That position absolute there in the rule for: #subapp-browser #bws-sidebar .bws-content, #subapp-browser .bws-view-data, #subapp-browser #bws-sidebar, #subapp-browser #bws-fullscreen
[16:05] <hatch> lol that's a lot of nested id's
[16:06] <rick_h> hatch: well it's several paris of ids :P
[16:06] <rick_h> pairs
[16:06] <hatch> haha yeah
[16:06] <hatch> they say pair id's are bad because of the css indexing
[16:06] <teknico> hatch: I see it now, thanks
[16:07] <rick_h> benji: so if I uncheck that absolute on the .bws-content div, and manually set a .yui3-charmtoken to position: absolute with left/top of 200px it moves and works just peachy
[16:07] <hatch> are you dragging a proxy or the actual element?
[16:07] <benji> rick_h: cool, I'll try that in a minute
[16:07] <hatch> imho you should drag a proxy
[16:09] <hatch> but I suppose that's implementers choice :)
[16:11] <rick_h> hatch: yea, but first stab is an element.
[16:12] <hatch> yeah I suppose
[16:12] <rick_h> so with that, lunchables need to be fetched
[16:12] <hatch> I wonder if the proxy will have the same issue
[16:12] <hatch> I don't really know how the proxies work under the hood
[16:16] <jcsackett> rick_h: you want/can you jump in on the deployer/bundles meeting in guichat? i have to run shortly.
[16:36] <jcsackett> rick_h: nm.
[16:40] <rick_h> jcsackett: k
[16:48] <gary_poster> luca__, guichat really quick?
[16:50] <luca__> gary_poster: sure
[16:50] <gary_poster> thx
[17:11] <benji> rick_h: I was (almost) able to reproduce your results following the procedure you gave, but it seems that it relies on having the original css for inital layout and then swichting those styles. (when applied from the begining not only is the sidebar all a jumble, but the dragged item is still constrained to the container)
[17:13] <rick_h> benji: ugh and ugh.
[17:14] <rick_h> benji: I assumed that messing with that css would fubar up some things and send us chasing for a different way to do it. I thought/hoped that the issue was one of pure css vs JS functionality though
[17:14] <benji> I'll look at it harder after lunch.
[17:15] <rick_h> benji: k, I'm trying to get this branch up for review and maybe can see if I can help some.   The GUI release is broken in Firefox :-(
[17:17] <teknico> gary_poster: much as I'm trying, it looks like I will not :-/
[17:18] <gary_poster> teknico, ok, I will mark this other issue as critical so we can break WIP
[17:18] <Makyo> gary_poster, Will investigate trunk.
[17:19] <gary_poster> Makyo, to dupe, simply start uistage on Firefox, add two services, and move them around and try to add relations
[17:19] <gary_poster> thansk Makyo.  We should make a 0.7.1 afterwards
[17:19] <Makyo> gary_poster, check
[17:23] <gary_poster> matsubara, is there still a chance that we get you soon for regular weekly qa, or is that no longer an option?
[17:23] <matsubara> gary_poster, should be an option, yes. How about a round of ET this Friday?
[17:24] <gary_poster> matsubara, sounds great.  If possible, please use Firefox, Chrom[e/ium], and IE 10.
[17:24] <gary_poster> thank you!
[17:24] <matsubara> ok
[17:33] <teknico> gary_poster: I caught the freakin' pest :-) so I'll be able to at least propose the branch shortly
[17:35] <rick_h> orangesquad along with hatch, Makyo, or others interested: code review request please on related charm display: https://codereview.appspot.com/10416044
[17:40] <teknico> everyone interested in tests (that is, everyone ;-) ) is welcome to have a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/10383047 Thank you!
[17:51] <abentley> jcsackett: What was scan_repo for / is bug #1111708 still relevant?
[17:51] <_mup_> Bug #1111708: scan_repo and reindex need to have their own jobs/scripts <ingest> <tech-debt> <charmworld:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1111708>
[17:55] <gary_poster> teknico, :-) great
[18:03] <bac> teknico: looking
[18:03] <gary_poster> me too
[18:04] <bac> teknico: and while you wait, i've got one that needs review.  :)  no squid pro quo, but thought you might be interested
[18:05] <teknico> bac: I'm not exactly waiting :-) I'm past my EOD and having dinner
[18:06] <bac> ah, perhaps you'll have a break between your main and dessert!  :)
[18:06] <bac> jk, of course
[18:08] <teknico> bac: of course, but I did it anyway :-)
[18:50]  * gary_poster tried using Gmail over web interface for half a day.  Not my thing. :-)  Back to buggy, clunky thunderbird
[18:57] <abentley> jcsackett: Here's another site that seems to allow sharing a URL on G+: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/19/bob-rae-resigning-as-an-mp/
[19:17] <bac> gary_poster: in kanban there is an<EMAIL_ADDRESS>marked as IS.  is that a real person?
[19:17] <gary_poster> bac, fascinating question.
[19:18] <bac> he and/or she is breaking lp2kanban
[19:18] <gary_poster> no idea
[19:18] <bac> it should be fixed to continue gracefully ignoring people with no LP id
[19:18] <bac> i've never seen the admin subdomain
[19:19] <gary_poster> bac, I could try to see if we can disable this account...but I suspect they are supposed to be there.  would you like me to investigate, or do you think we should just plan to fix lp2kanban, or...?
[19:20] <bac> i think it'll be an easy fix
[19:20] <gary_poster> cool
[19:20] <gary_poster> thx
[19:20] <bac> s/assert/continue
[19:20] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:58] <bac> gary_poster: my branch got two reviews but luca indicated he had some changes that he'll describe tomorrow, so the branch is stalled
[19:59] <gary_poster> ok bac.  thanks for heads up. on call
[19:59] <jcsackett> abentley: that is awesome! that totally works. and with that to work from, finally able to find documentation.
[20:00] <abentley> jcsackett: Great!
[20:11] <jcsackett> abentley: responding to your much earlier question: scan_repo was used to re do the scan job on things already stored in the DB, iirc. as it's not come up, i don't know that it's something we still need.
[20:12] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm inclined to think we don't need either scan_repo or reindex.
[20:12] <jcsackett> abentley: i would be inclined to agree.
[20:32] <bac> hi Makyo, do you have any info on the card 'juju go sandbox: next methods'?
[20:33] <Makyo> bac, not immediately.  I suppose I'd suggest expose/unexpose, or maybe destroy?
[20:34] <bac> Makyo: so i guess that card should spawn another after picking one of those...
[20:34] <Makyo> bac, yeah, until go-sandbox has at least everything py-sandbox has.
[21:19] <bac> if we do have a sprint in raleigh at least we have a nice airport now. http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/07/travel/airport-architecture-paul-goldberger/index.html   (photos 9 & 10)
[21:29] <gary_poster> hey, look at us with our #9 in the world!
[21:29]  * gary_poster has to run
[21:29] <gary_poster> have a great evening
[23:04] <hatch> evening
[23:32] <rick_h> party
[23:33] <rick_h> hatch: you see the new pr release from yui. good looking stuff
[23:33] <hatch> yeah it's looking awesome
[23:33] <hatch> we REALLY need to upgrade heh
[23:33] <rick_h> :)
[23:33] <bcsaller> why can't we?
[23:33] <hatch> it's finally coming into it's own
[23:34] <hatch> bcsaller: too hard to change those 4 characters and re-make :P
[23:34] <rick_h> lol
[23:34] <rick_h> can we hit CI without it landing in trunk?
[23:34] <hatch> not until tarmac is up and running
[23:34] <rick_h> ideally we'd just upgrade and push it up to CI and see what it said. If all's well then land it
[23:34] <hatch> buut you could pull down your branch and run from your machine
[23:34] <hatch> so yes
[23:34] <hatch> sortof
[23:36] <hatch> honestly I think the only reason we haven't done it is because noone has taken the time


[07:13] <dholbach> good morning
[07:27] <MooDoo> morning
[11:52] <balloons> hola
[11:52] <popey> yo
[16:21] <dholbach> all right my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!


[04:23] <jared> jea: package enroute
[04:26] <jea> jared: yes, that was a good email to receive. nice to know that they have received the request, and acted on it
[04:29] <jared> jea: I was just worried I'd sent it to the wrong place.
[04:29] <jea> ah, true
[04:29] <jea> looks like it was done correctly :)
[04:40] <jared> jea: yep, if you can let me know when it arrives that would be great.
[04:41] <jea> ok, will do
[04:41] <jared> I have to head into uni now so I'll catch you later.
[04:41] <jea> ok. enjoy yourself at uni