[02:34] <Caelum> zyga: looks like we'll need to update the opensuse package again, stopped working
[02:35] <Caelum> zyga: "cannot perform readlinkat() on the mount namespace file descriptor of the init process: Permission denied"
[05:04] <mborzecki> morning
[05:49] <mup> PR snapd#5691 closed: spdx: allow Other-Open-Source <Simple> <Created by mvo5> <Closed by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5691>
[05:50] <mup> PR snapd#5728 opened: spdx: remove "Other Open Source" from the support licenses <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5728>
[05:55] <mvo> zyga: hey, what do you think, when can we remove the experimental flag from layouts?
[06:00] <mup> PR snapd#5729 opened: many: rename ClientOpts to ClientOptions <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5729>
[06:06] <mborzecki> mvo: hi, is /etc/hostname not writable in core 18 devices? https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5722 hostnamectl appears to be failing with 'read only filesystem'
[06:06] <mup> PR #5722: tests: test for the hostname interface <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5722>
[06:07] <mborzecki> mvo: iirc layouts still have that problem with trespassing to the host's filesystem
[06:09] <mvo> mborzecki: hm, etc/hostname should be a symlink on core18 to etc/writable/hostname, let me double check that
[06:11] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, its a symlink
[06:12] <mvo> mborzecki: so maybe thats the problem? that the apparmor policy does not have the symlink?
[06:12] <mvo> (target)
[06:13] <mborzecki> mvo: hmm, but it failed with 'read only fs', i'd guess EROFS appeared somewhere there, with apparmort that'd be more like permission denied
[06:13] <mborzecki> mvo: wonder if hostnamectl truncates /etc/hostname or writes a new file and does a rename
[06:15] <zyga> Good morning
[06:16] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[06:17] <zyga> I’ll start soon
[06:17] <mvo> mborzecki: oh that rings a bell
[06:17] <zyga> Kids had blood test today
[06:17] <mvo> mborzecki: let me quickly check
[06:17] <zyga> And needed my “moral support”
[06:17] <mvo> pedronis: is 5699 something you want to review ? or do you think its fine?
[06:18] <mvo> mborzecki: this sounds a lot like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1778936
[06:18] <zyga> mvo: after trespassing bug is fixed
[06:18] <mvo> zyga: aha, ok
[06:18] <zyga> Then they are ready
[06:18] <mup> Bug #1778936: please re-add Support-system-image-read-only-etc.patch <patch> <systemd (Ubuntu):New> <systemd (Ubuntu Bionic):New> <systemd (Ubuntu Cosmic):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778936>
[06:19] <mborzecki> mup: heh, yes
[06:19] <mup> mborzecki: I apologize, but I'm pretty strict about only responding to known commands.
[06:19] <mborzecki> mvo: heh, yes :)
[06:19] <zyga> I’ll work with Maciej on this as it was harder to come up with precise logic than I wished last time
[06:21] <mvo> mborzecki: I get the feeling I will have to do this SRU myself :/
[06:21] <mvo> mborzecki: anyway
[06:21] <mvo> mborzecki: I will put it on my list
[06:22] <mup> PR snapd#5730 opened:  devicestate: support getting (http) proxy from core config  <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5730>
[06:23] <mup> PR snapd#5704 closed:  snap: add new type "TypeSnapd" and attach to the snapd snap  <Core18> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5704>
[06:24] <mup> PR snapd#5728 closed: spdx: remove "Other Open Source" from the support licenses <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5728>
[06:25] <mvo> mborzecki: want to have a quick look at 5719 again? I had to change it slightly after gustavos review but should be fine (all tests still happy and errors better)
[06:25] <mborzecki> mvo: already +1'ed it
[06:25] <mborzecki> oh, w8, that's the other one :)
[06:32] <mup> PR snapd#5710 closed:  cmd: support re-exec into the "snapd" snap  <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5710>
[06:41] <mup> PR snapd#5709 closed: configcore,snapstate: add new core.experimental.snapd-snap option <Created by mvo5> <Closed by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5709>
[06:44] <mup> PR core#93 closed: hooks: unwind /etc/alternatives <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/93>
[06:44] <zyga> Back
[06:58] <zyga> mvo: re
[06:58] <zyga> mvo: I have that dragon on my desk if you need any support
[06:58] <zyga> mvo: it's not powered on but I can bring all the misc bits and set it up if you need me to
[07:16] <pstolowski> mornings
[07:20] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:21] <Caelum> zyga: hi, opensuse package is broken again, something to do with apparmor, would an update fix it? If so I'll send you a PR.
[07:21] <zyga> Caelum: yes, I have the build ready, just need to pull the trigger
[07:21] <zyga> Caelum: can you review & test?
[07:21] <Caelum> zyga: yeah totally
[07:22] <zyga> ok
[07:22] <zyga> hold on, let me commit
[07:22] <mvo> zyga: I just send an update to the etc/alternatives stuff in snapcore/core18. not urgent but you may be interessted
[07:22] <mup> PR core18#64 opened: hooks: improve /etc/alternatives unwinding <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core18/pull/64>
[07:22] <zyga> ack
[07:23] <Caelum> zyga: also at some point I want to talk about reviving the gentoo overlay
[07:24] <zyga> sure
[07:24] <zyga> I have nothing for that so please go ahead
[07:25] <mup> PR core#94 opened: hooks: improve /etc/alternatives unwinding <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/94>
[07:26] <zyga> btrfs rebalance ...
[07:33] <zyga> ha
[07:33] <zyga> mvo: I found a bug in our systemd unit
[07:33] <zyga> system key refresh takes long eough
[07:33] <zyga> long enough
[07:33] <zyga> that systemd restarts us
[07:34] <zyga> we need to poke systemd using sd-notify during the security setup as it can take a lot of time
[07:36] <zyga> I guess this will continue while balancing is in progress as the system is much slower than usual
[07:44] <Caelum> it's good to cron that shit
[07:44] <Caelum> mine is @daily
[07:44] <Caelum> zyga: well highlight me if you want me to do anything
[07:45] <zyga> Caelum: sure, I'll send my build as soon as btrfs stops my system from crawling
[07:45] <zyga> Caelum: I want to branch it so that it can be reviewed
[07:46] <Caelum> awesome
[07:56] <zyga> ok I/O aside I managed to branch it
[08:02] <mborzecki> mvo: left you a coment in https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5729 btw. the title says it's only messing with ClientOptions, but it's adding proxy too
[08:03] <mup> PR #5729: many: rename ClientOpts to ClientOptions <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5729>
[08:03] <zyga> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:zyga:branches:system:snappy/snapd
[08:06] <niemeyer> Good mornings!
[08:12] <Chipaca> moin moin
[08:12] <zyga> hey guys
[08:12] <zyga> good morning
[08:12] <zyga> :)
[08:12] <pstolowski> o/
[08:12] <zyga> summer is supposedly back this week (just not yet)
[08:17] <Chipaca> mvo: did you see the last failure on #5722? is /etc/hostname writable on core 18?
[08:18] <mup> PR #5722: tests: test for the hostname interface <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5722>
[08:26] <mvo> Chipaca: I did not, but i suspect its https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1778936
[08:26] <mup> Bug #1778936: please re-add Support-system-image-read-only-etc.patch <patch> <systemd (Ubuntu):New> <systemd (Ubuntu Bionic):New> <systemd (Ubuntu Cosmic):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778936>
[08:26] <Chipaca> mvo: ah
[08:26] <mvo> zyga: nice catch
[08:27] <mvo> mborzecki: 5729 is build on top of the other one, I hope I added it to the description
[08:27] <mvo> mborzecki: I think I could split them maybe thats clearer
[08:27] <mborzecki> mvo: it's ok with me
[08:28] <mvo> mborzecki: otoh the proxy one can land, I was just waiting to double check with pedronis if he wants to have a look at the proxy thing because it does some potentially dangerous state interactions (it needs to lock state to get the proxy)
[08:28] <mvo> mborzecki: ok
[08:28] <mvo> Chipaca: and WELCOME BACK
[08:29] <Chipaca> mvo: :-)
[08:29] <Chipaca> mvo: looking forward to all the review feedback that'll be waiting for me
[08:32] <Chipaca> zyga: were you able to get your lab back up? I could use a darwin shell about now
[08:32] <zyga> Chipaca: almost, I can set you up in 10 min
[08:32] <Chipaca> zyga: no rush; just let me know
[08:35] <zyga> almost done
[08:36] <pedronis> mvo: hi
[08:37] <mvo> pedronis: good morning! just wanted to double check if 5699  is something you want to have a look at :)
[08:38] <pedronis> mvo: I'm a bit worried that we are not super consistent about releasing the lock when doing store things
[08:38] <mvo> pedronis: just to clarify you don't have to, but it might be interessting because of the proxy helper and state lock interplay
[08:38] <pedronis> we do for some main things
[08:38] <mvo> pedronis: yeah, this PR would enforce that we are
[08:38] <pedronis> mvo: enforce ?
[08:38] <mvo> pedronis: well, it will crash or hang if we don't
[08:38] <pedronis> wouldn't call that enforce
[08:39] <zyga> Chipaca: check check?
[08:39] <mvo> pedronis: ok, bad wording then :/ I mean we will need it
[08:40] <Chipaca> zyga: check what?
[08:40] <Chipaca> ah
[08:40] <zyga> Chipaca: did you see my private msg?
[08:40] <pedronis> mvo: yea, re-double checking
[08:40] <Chipaca> zyga: now yes
[08:41] <zyga> Chipaca: there's golang and gcc
[08:41] <zyga> Chipaca: there should be git and other things but let me know if you need more
[08:41] <zyga> Chipaca: you are on bare metal
[08:42] <Chipaca> zyga: woo, thanks
[08:42] <Chipaca> mbuahaha
[08:42] <zyga> enjoy :)
[08:53] <pedronis> mvo: so rechecking most of the relevant packages have tests with a fakeStore that uses a pokeStateLock helper to check for that,  daemon doesn't do that though because usually it doesn't hold the lock for long and also there's no clear state in many tests, but bit delicate, maybe you want to look there what we can do
[08:56] <mvo> pedronis: so it sounds like I should add tests in daemon that poleStateLock?
[08:57] <pedronis> mvo: add pokeStateLock in daemon test fake store bits, yes,   it seems by definition there is always a state if we use those, because we had to use ReplaceStore anyway
[08:59] <mvo> pedronis: great, I will do that, thank you
[09:12]  * zyga wonders what the error is in https://build.opensuse.org/build/home:zyga:branches:system:snappy/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/i586/snapd/_log
[09:13] <zyga> log files from suse are horrible :/
[09:13] <mborzecki> hm i guess locking the state for the whole duration of doMountSnap() is a bad idea?
[09:13] <Chipaca> zyga: can you install squashfs-tools?
[09:13] <zyga> Chipaca: not sure, let me try
[09:14] <Chipaca> zyga: (assuming you're using something like brew)
[09:14] <zyga> no, I try to stay clear of brew
[09:14] <Chipaca> (or whatever the package mangler on osx is)
[09:15] <Chipaca> zyga: I'll run it from git (or try to!)
[09:15] <zyga> Chipaca: it doesn't build, hold on
[09:15] <zyga> mksquashfs.c:4404:29: error: use of undeclared identifier 'FNM_EXTMATCH'
[09:15] <zyga>                                 FNM_PATHNAME|FNM_PERIOD|FNM_EXTMATCH) == 0;
[09:16] <zyga> I have a firm deja-vu now
[09:16] <zyga> Chipaca: if you can find me a copy that builds :)
[09:16] <zyga> Chipaca: I suspect someone patched the glibc-specific flag
[09:17] <zyga> I remember now, I was building this on my MacBook
[09:17] <zyga> (remember, the one I had in Netherlands)
[09:18] <zyga> and I had to patch some things for it to build
[09:18] <Chipaca> zyga: looks like there's a nixos patch for darwin
[09:20] <zyga> Chipaca: do you have a link or a tree ?
[09:20] <zyga> ideally something we would later on incorporate into our build
[09:36] <Chipaca> zyga: could you sudo chmod u+s /usr/bin/dtrace
[09:37] <zyga> dtrace? :)
[09:37] <zyga> sure, what do you need it for
[09:37] <Chipaca> zyga: this is the patch: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/tools/filesystems/squashfs/darwin.patch
[09:37] <Chipaca> zyga: 'snap pack' failing with 'exit error 1', wondering what all is failing
[09:37] <Chipaca> shortest path to answer that is to trace it :-)
[09:37] <Chipaca> then i need to improve the error output
[09:37] <Chipaca> then, fix it
[09:44] <zyga> Chipaca: are you set now?
[09:45] <Chipaca> zyga: it works
[09:45] <zyga> ok, good luck
[09:45] <zyga> I should reboot the ssh host as it runs an older kernel
[09:45] <zyga> so let me know when would be a good time for that
[09:47] <zyga> Caelum: hey
[09:47] <zyga> I pushed https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:zyga:branches:system:snappy/snapd
[09:47] <zyga> can you please have a look at that
[09:47] <zyga> I cannot understand why the i386 build fails
[09:47] <zyga> (the error log is just ... not saying anything)
[09:47] <zyga> in any case, that is the latest and greatest
[09:48] <zyga> so any feedback you can get on that is appreciated
[09:49] <zyga> Caelum: you need to build the package locally as I didn't publish the build
[09:49] <zyga> I'll grab a coffee and be back soon
[09:51] <Caelum> zyga: looking now
[09:52] <Caelum> zyga: one reason the build can fail I told you about a couple months ago, there is one time-sensitive test running in parallel
[09:55] <Caelum> don't remember which one it was
[09:58] <zyga> Caelum: maybe but I'm not convinced
[09:59] <zyga> this is failing on i386 consistently
[09:59] <zyga> while not failing on amd64
[10:02] <Caelum> oh ok
[10:02] <Caelum> I've had a similar thing initially, it would build on i386 but fail on amd64
[10:03] <Caelum> because it needs 32bit support stuff
[10:03] <zyga> but on 32bit system every library is this
[10:03] <zyga> I mean, 32bit
[10:04] <Caelum> yup
[10:04] <Caelum> there are no logs?
[10:05] <zyga> sure there are
[10:05] <zyga> have a look
[10:05] <zyga> I could not find what failed
[10:05] <zyga> the go build / check wrappers are extremely verbose
[10:05] <zyga> it seems a page full of text flies for every single file
[10:06] <Caelum> it thinks the tests failed because of bad exit status but there is no error, that would probably mean a segfault
[10:07] <Caelum> is it always failing on i386?
[10:07] <Caelum> err i686 I guess
[10:08] <Caelum> in the same exact place?
[10:09] <Caelum> build is randomly freezing on me downloading packages
[10:09] <Caelum> weird
[10:10] <zyga> Caelum: I don't know, what I managed to get is the log file it references
[10:10] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/SC8Lnihd/
[10:11] <Caelum> zyga: yeah that just runs the tests
[10:11] <Caelum> zyga: and then one of them segfaults
[10:11] <zyga> aha,
[10:11] <zyga> I can run tests with "go test ./..." just fine
[10:11] <Caelum> on 32 bit?
[10:11] <zyga> but on x86_64 :)
[10:11] <zyga> probably some of the hardening things are breaking
[10:16] <mvo> pedronis: adding pokestate is a bit of a rathole, a lot of tests do not setup the fake store and just rely on that some other test did that. anyway, working on it. good intuition there
[10:22] <Caelum> zyga: if you want to do a test on a 32 bit docker image, there are apparently some tricks involved: https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/611
[10:22] <zyga> I'm using a 32bit chroot
[10:23] <Caelum> ah cool
[10:26] <zyga> abuild@tumbleweed:~/go/src/github.com/snapcore/snapd/vendor/github.com/mvo5/libseccomp-golang> go test
[10:26] <zyga> can't load package: package github.com/snapcore/snapd/vendor/github.com/mvo5/libseccomp-golang: build constraints exclude all Go files in /home/abuild/go/src/github.com/snapcore/snapd/vendor/github.com/mvo5/libseccomp-golang
[10:26] <zyga> mvo: ^ that's interesting, I'm trying to understand why this happens
[10:26] <zyga> nothing immediately obvious would cause this
[10:27] <mvo> zyga: that it the upstream libseccomp-golang with a mintor tweak
[10:27] <mvo> zyga: what arch is this?
[10:27] <zyga> mvo: i586 chroot
[10:27] <mvo> zyga: maybe its just missing from libseccomp-golang?
[10:27] <zyga> mvo: the constraints just say +linux
[10:28] <zyga> I'm exploring
[10:28] <Caelum> zyga: well, for some reason my build kept freezing on downloading packages, so I was not able to test anything, sorry.  Going to be driving for the next 8 hours. If you aren't sure this always happens, you can make a dummy commit to force a rebuild or there is an osc command to force a rebuild too.
[10:28] <popey> Why does "snap info chromium" say license:   unknown, but https://snapcraft.io/chromium shows lots of licenses?
[10:28] <zyga> Caelum: I tried that
[10:28] <Caelum> zyga: ah great
[10:28] <zyga> popey: because meta/snap.yaml doesn't say license:
[10:29] <popey> ah
[10:29] <popey> ok, thanks! :D
[10:30] <popey> It's a bit odd that it behaves differently if installed or not
[10:31] <zyga> yes
[10:31] <zyga> because once set of meta-data is from the store and the other is from the package
[10:31] <popey> yes, that's bizarro
[10:33] <zyga> # runtime/cgo
[10:33] <zyga> cc1: sorry, unimplemented: 64-bit mode not compiled in
[10:33] <zyga> mvo: tadam
[10:33] <zyga> that's golang 1.10 i386
[10:33] <zyga> being confused about something apparently
[10:33] <zyga> this is a i386 chroot
[10:33] <zyga> (well i586)
[10:33] <zyga> this is after unsetting CGO_ENABLED=0
[10:33] <mvo> zyga: yeah, I was suspecting that it can't identify its architcture
[10:34] <mup> PR snapd#5731 opened: daemon: remove TestSnapsInfoUnknownSource <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5731>
[10:34] <mvo> Chipaca: ^-- might be interessting for you, would love your feedback
[10:38] <niemeyer> cjwatson: ping
[10:38] <Caelum> zyga: and there is some kind of problem with 'osc build' that I saw in another one of my projects that I'm getting now: file /usr/lib/rpm/fileattrs/kernel.attr from install of rpm-config-SUSE-0-1.1.noarch conflicts with file from package rpm-4.14.1-3.1.x86_64
[10:39] <Caelum> zyga: not related to snapd
[10:39] <zyga> I can build / test it in a chroot after setting GOARCH=386
[10:39] <Chipaca> popey: license should be per snap revision (and not editable via web), but the store hasn't been able to implement it yet
[10:40] <Caelum> zyga: it also runs: file /usr/lib/rpm/fileattrs/kernel.attr from install of rpm-config-SUSE-0-1.1.noarch conflicts with file from package rpm-4.14.1-3.1.x86_64
[10:40] <Caelum> err
[10:40] <Chipaca> mvo: what does 'go env' print?
[10:40] <Caelum> /usr/bin/make -O -j2 -C cmd check
[10:40] <mvo> Chipaca: you mean zyga right?
[10:41] <Chipaca> probably, yes
[10:41] <zyga> go env https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YsN4UGgW/
[10:41] <zyga> though this is tweaked in an interactive shell
[10:41] <zyga> vanilla build doesn't show me anything useful
[10:41] <Chipaca> zyga: not sure what you're trying to do, but why are you trying to do it with gccgo?
[10:42] <Caelum> zyga: I mean, did you do only "go test" or "make check" too
[10:42] <zyga> this is for snap-seccomp
[10:43] <zyga> lots of red
[10:43] <zyga> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:zyga:branches:system:snappy/snapd
[10:43] <mup> PR snapd#5732 opened:  daemon: add pokeTest helper to the daemon tests  <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5732>
[10:43] <zyga> I'm just going to say this, whoever came up with the wrappers for golang in opensuse needs to do a reality check, it's the least useful wrapper I saw
[10:43] <zyga> and this includes the previous ruby wrapper
[10:43] <mvo> pedronis: I added the tests to a new PR and also updated the 5699 - should I add more before merging 5699?
[10:44] <zyga> I'm giving up on this
[10:46] <Caelum> zyga: so this happens on all architectures now
[10:46] <cjwatson> niemeyer: hi
[10:47] <Caelum> zyga: ok well, I'll take a look over the next few days
[10:47] <zyga> ok
[10:51] <Caelum> zyga: driving home from LA to san francisco now, take care
[10:51] <zyga> safe ride home
[10:57] <niemeyer> cjwatson: Heya
[10:57] <niemeyer> cjwatson: How do we kick spammers and their comments out of Launchpad?
[10:57] <niemeyer> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1575053/comments/100
[10:57] <mup> Bug #1575053: Please move the "$HOME/snap" directory to a less obtrusive location <julyshakedown> <snapd:Confirmed> <snapd (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575053>
[11:01] <cjwatson> niemeyer: done
[11:01] <cjwatson> (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion is our preferred way to report spam)
[11:03] <niemeyer> cjwatson: Thanks!
[11:03] <niemeyer> cjwatson: Will use that next time
[11:03] <cjwatson> thanks for the report, we obviously try to boot spammers out ASAP to minimise damage
[11:05] <abeato> Wimpress, hey, do you know how can make snapcraft generate a manifest?
[11:30] <zyga> ok
[11:30] <zyga> small progress
[11:30] <zyga> finally feels better than packaging
[11:42] <baimafeima> hi does anyone know what's the difference in terms of security and user privacy when comparing snaps, flatpaks and appimages?
[11:42] <zyga> baimafeima: it's complicated
[11:42] <zyga> baimafeima: except maybe appimages that by default have no sandbox at all
[11:43] <baimafeima> zyga, mhm so appimages could theoretically gather a lot of data as they are not sandboxed ...
[11:43] <baimafeima> if I were to install a malicious snap or flatpak or appimage, through which could my system most easily be exploited?
[11:44] <zyga> baimafeima: as appimage is not sandboxed in any way the answer is obvious
[11:45] <baimafeima> zyga, what about snaps vs flatpaks? pros and cons?
[11:45] <zyga> it's complicated
[11:46] <baimafeima> zyga, let's say I have wayland and on the operating system side all the latest versions
[11:46] <zyga> it's still very complicated
[11:46] <zyga> it's not something that can be accurately described in a few moments
[11:48] <baimafeima> zyga, does having reproducible builds apply to both?
[11:48] <zyga> no, to neither
[11:50] <baimafeima> zyga, I know snaps have a broader use case, IoT and such and distribution is centralized, whereas everyone can host their own flatpaks and it's more desktop-focused...
[11:50] <zyga> baimafeima: perhaps it's not common knowledge but both systems cannot care less about how the package is built
[11:50] <zyga> so any package can be built in any way really
[11:51] <zyga> so some packages can be built with all the hardening and reproducible build tweaks
[11:51] <zyga> while others can just contain a debug build from someone's lap
[11:52] <baimafeima> zyga, so you basically suggest a snap is not a snap or a flatpak isn't a flatpak and I would still have to trust the developer on the quality of the packaging? So there are going to be hardened snaps and those that are not?
[11:53] <zyga> baimafeima: with both systems you trust on whoever is making the package, yes
[11:53] <baimafeima> is the reason to keep the entry barrier into snap or flatpak development low? or is there a way to enforce higher minimum standards below which a snap simply won't run?
[11:53] <zyga> while many packages can be of good quality there is nothing that prevents anyone from making a bad quality package
[11:54] <baimafeima> zyga, I see, then I would say a centralized distribution system like with snaps could have an eye on quality control whereas that wouldn't be easily possible with flatpaks?
[11:54] <zyga> well
[11:54] <zyga> what's the goal?
[11:54] <zyga> linux packaging is hard
[11:55] <zyga> linux market share is pretty much close to zero
[11:55] <zyga> using the right helpers people will get (over time) better and better builds
[11:55] <zyga> but you have to recognise that packaging is very hard as it is already
[11:55] <zyga> with each distribution having complex policy
[11:55] <zyga> and widely different levels of quality
[11:55] <zyga> the point of snaps and flatpak is to make it better for developers and users
[11:56] <zyga> that includes making it easier
[11:56] <baimafeima> zyga, mhm I see, which distribution do you use to build and develop?
[11:56] <zyga> we have plenty of bad outdated, buggy apps already
[11:56] <zyga> and the existing policy system does not change that
[11:57] <zyga> you can link the buggy and broken and old package with hardening options and use reproducible builds while you are at it
[11:57] <zyga> but because it's hard and complex the upstreams cannot care less about that (I'm generalising obviously) and if they ever test something it is whatever they are running (probably not linux because of statistics)
[11:57] <zyga> so in the end, we are hoping to make the process less complex so that more people have a better time at making apps
[11:57] <zyga> and at using apps
[11:58] <zyga> baimafeima: I use multiple operating systems
[11:58] <baimafeima> zyga, interesting
[12:00] <baimafeima> zyga, I remember (but cannot find the github issue) that there was a discussion regarding on-the-fly updates and whether there is a possibility for end-users to prevent a snap from updating itself and how this can be integrated into software centers with fine-grained control
[12:00] <zyga> baimafeima: I wonder if statistically upstream developers still use compiled languages as a majority so reproducible builds and hardening probably apply a level below where people generally tend to code now
[12:02] <zyga> baimafeima: there's a thread about that on the snapcraft forum I believe
[12:03] <baimafeima> zyga, ah yeah I think it was on the forum, not sure whether it's been resolved by now
[12:03] <zyga> baimafeima: it depends by what you mean, there's no universal agreement on what should happen
[12:03] <baimafeima> zyga, it's a pity that there's not more commitment to reproducible builds
[12:04] <zyga> baimafeima: it's a pity there's no more commitment to {useful APIs,documentation,stability,artwork,localisation,business friendliness}
[12:04] <baimafeima> zyga, I think most end-users won't care but some care about the degree of control through the auto-update mechanism
[12:04] <zyga> there are many dragons to fight
[12:07] <abeato> sergiusens, , hey, do you know how can make snapcraft generate a manifest?
[12:09] <baimafeima> zyga, thanks for the infos, I'll slowly read my way into this
[12:11] <zyga> baimafeima: if you have specific questions I will be happy to answer them
[12:14] <baimafeima> zyga, thanks
[12:17] <zyga> brb
[12:33] <zyga> re
[12:50] <Son_Goku> baimafeima, reproducible builds aren't particularly valuable to most people
[12:51] <Son_Goku> they've made that choice when they decided in their ecosystems that they attempt fetching from a VCS (nodejs, php, golang, etc.) rather than having releases upload a tarball (python, rust, c/c++, etc.)
[13:10] <jdstrand> mborzecki, mvo: /etc/writable/hostname is *not* writable in interfaces/builtin/hostname_control.go
[13:11] <zyga>  3085 1000000   20   0   70896  65316  38896 R 100.0  8.1   2:34.73 unattended+
[13:11] <zyga> that's weird
[13:11] <zyga> that's on a dragon board running core
[13:12] <zyga> ah, that's inside a container
[13:39] <mup> PR snapcraft#2227 closed: lxd: wait for cloud-init <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2227>
[13:42] <mup> PR snapcraft#2228 opened: storeapi: handle releasing to curly braced branch <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2228>
[13:54] <ogra> hmm ... when i "snap stop" a service from a snap and the snap gets refreshed, the service gets automatically started again
[13:54] <ogra> is that expected (not by me for sure, but is it expected y the implementation ?)
[13:55] <ogra> *by the
[14:14] <Chipaca> ogra: yes
[14:14] <Chipaca> ogra: or, no
[14:14] <Chipaca> ogra: … maybe?
[14:14] <Chipaca> ogra: 'snap stop' does not imply 'snap disable'
[14:14] <Chipaca> ogra: i mean, snap stop --disable
[14:14] <Chipaca> which is different from snap disable, of course
[14:22] <pedronis> mvo: btw assertions not only have revisions, but also format (an increasing version of the format), in theory we could also play with that (so far we have incremented it only for snap-declaration)
[14:22] <mvo> pedronis: oh, interessting idea
[14:24] <pedronis> mvo: snapd always sends the max-format it supports when asking for assertions
[14:25] <pedronis> anyway another thing
[14:26]  * mvo nods
[14:30] <ogra> Chipaca, well, can i disable single services and not the whole snap ? i thought disable completely turns off the whole set
[14:32] <pedronis> mvo: to be clear it's per assertion type, is not global
[14:37] <Chipaca> ogra: 'snap disable' is snap-level; 'snap stop --disable' is service-level
[14:41] <mvo> pedronis: ta
[14:43] <ogra> Chipaca, aaah !! thanks
[14:47] <zyga> re, hasty day, quick lunch done
[15:17] <sergiusens> abeato: hey, sorry, I saw your question pop-up but was super focused on code reviews. So you want SNAPCRAFT_BUILD_INFO (also reminded under recording here https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/releases/tag/2.43)
[15:18] <abeato> sergiusens, ok, so that is just an env var, right? is it considered experimental still?
[15:19] <sergiusens> abeato: no, not experimental, it is being used by USN already
[15:19] <abeato> sergiusens, got it, thanks
[15:31] <mup> PR snapd#5733 opened: snap/squashfs: improve error message from Build on mksquashfs failure <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5733>
[15:36] <mup> PR core#94 closed: hooks: improve /etc/alternatives unwinding <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/94>
[15:36] <mvo> fwiw, I'm looking at the core16 degraded boot failure right now
[15:43] <zyga> mvo: flashing dragon now
[15:43] <zyga> mvo: I'm done with meetings today
[15:49] <abeato> sergiusens, can you force creation of the manifest in snapcraft.yaml file?
[15:54] <sergiusens> abeato: we have no language for that. Maybe create a forum post requesting it.
[15:55] <abeato> sergiusens, ok
[15:55] <sergiusens> abeato: fwiw, I do agree we need a way to opt-in/opt-out
[15:55] <sergiusens> but it is one of those where agreeing on the syntax for it is the larger discussion:-)
[15:55] <abeato> haha
[15:55] <abeato> ok
[16:02] <abeato> sergiusens, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/no-way-to-create-manifest-from-snapcraft-yaml/7076
[16:09] <cachio> zyga, hey
[16:09] <cachio> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y2p6byKthP/
[16:09] <cachio> I saw this error
[16:09] <zyga> right
[16:10] <zyga> I don't know why it happens
[16:10] <zyga> I saw the pastebin before
[16:10] <cachio> zyga, ok :(
[16:10] <zyga> there's clearly a bug but we don't have a firm understanding if this is a bug in systemd or in the kernel
[16:11] <zyga> or in some intermediate libraries
[16:12] <cachio> zyga, nice, I'll continue researching
[16:12] <zyga> there's a thread that has some information about this
[16:13] <zyga> if you find out anything please add it there
[16:18] <xnox> mvo, so you went and fixed something for which you already had a universal pam script for without fixing the issue we hit with cloud-sdks shipped as snaps =)
[16:18] <xnox> mvo, can we talk about https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5226 again? i posted the comment there.
[16:18] <mup> PR #5226: data: add systemd user environment generator <Created by mvo5> <Closed by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5226>
[16:18] <xnox> mvo, is the test case still not clear which environment is still wrong and still does not contain /snap/bin
[16:23] <zyga> mvo: booting your image now
[16:23] <zyga> I had some SD card woes
[16:23] <zyga> (apparently that silly lock switch does something)
[16:24] <zyga> it errors with: /usr/share/subiquity/console-conf-wrapper: line 13: snap: command not found
[16:24] <zyga> I'm in interactive uboot prompt
[16:24] <zyga> mvo: just let me know what you need when you're back
[16:25] <zyga> mvo: I applied: env set snappy_cmdline net.ifnames=0 init=/lib/systemd/systemd ro panic=-1 fixrtc systemd.debug-shell=1
[16:37] <pstolowski> zyga: hey, got a moment for quick HO?
[16:40]  * cachio lunch & doctor
[16:57] <blackboxsw> nice sergiusens: on cloud-init status --wait. :) per the above lxd: wait branch.
[16:58] <blackboxsw> glad to see consumers of that blocking wait
[16:59] <mvo> xnox: I'm checking your comment and will reply
[16:59] <xnox> mvo, thanks
[16:59] <mvo> zyga: yeah, that might not be sufficient to get a shell
[17:01] <mvo> xnox: aha, so we need a *system* env generator. is there such a thing? pardon my ignorance on this
[17:03] <mvo> xnox: anyway, I will investigate
[17:04] <xnox> mvo, well the generator is that.
[17:04] <xnox> mvo, we already had user thing already anyway
[17:04] <xnox> mvo, via the legacy script that we did
[17:04] <mvo> xnox: ok
[17:04] <mvo> xnox: so we ship a systemd system env generator but its not picked up, that is the issue, correct?
[17:04] <xnox> mvo, no you never shipped it
[17:05] <xnox> mvo, you proposed it and then did not merge....
[17:05] <xnox> mvo, and decided that you need environment.d snippet and that's it.... but you didn't need that one at all
[17:05] <xnox> cause you already had the pam.d thing already (the shell script thing)
[17:05] <xnox> mvo, maybe we need a hangout?
[17:05] <sergiusens> blackboxsw: heh, I wish I'd known about that sooner, I had implemented my own poller looking at the cloud init status file
[17:06] <xnox> mvo, so the /etc/profile.d/apps-bin-path.sh & /usr/lib/environment.d/990-snapd.conf are redundand.
[17:06] <mvo> xnox: oh, now I remember, sorry, it was a while. ok - I think I know what is going on, I missed the difference between the two
[17:06] <mvo> xnox: the difference between environment.d and a generator
[17:07] <xnox> mvo, well profile.d is used by pammy / more traditional things; and the latter one is used by recentish systemd things for /logged in users/
[17:07] <blackboxsw> sergiusens: mea cupla. /me needs to figure out how to better advertise nice CLI features... I dump updates in here https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/capabilities.html#cli-subcommand-details, but I'll make sure to rope someone snappy in on next round of changes that could affect folks.
[17:07] <xnox> mvo,  the /usr/lib/environment.d/ is read by /usr/lib/systemd/user-environment-generators/30-systemd-environment-d-generator for the logged in users.
[17:08] <mvo> xnox: thanks, I know now what to do - sorry for this
[17:08] <mvo> xnox: I will resurrect the system env generator
[17:08] <xnox> mvo, that's ok. it is confusing, and most things are named identical.
[17:08] <xnox> or very similar
[17:09] <xnox> mvo, dammit can't find the docs now.
[17:09] <sergiusens> blackboxsw: no worries, I only found out about that status file by a google/ddg search that led to a bug report from 5 years ago iirc where scott mentioned he'd implement it; look at the code a bit, saw it was there for the series we needed it and just went ahead and did what needed doing
[17:10] <sergiusens> documentation is hard :-)
[17:10] <mvo> xnox: no worries, I will resurrect the PR tomorrow
[17:10] <mvo> xnox: thanks for the heads up!
[17:10] <xnox> mvo, cool thanks!
[17:10] <xnox> mvo, it would be nice to have a direction.d thing for system envrionemnt too, but there doesn't appear to be one, hence the need of a executable generator for the system one.
[17:11] <xnox> (systemd doesn't pre-ship one, the way it does a user generator)
[17:13] <blackboxsw> sergiusens: as a heads up, I know snappy also looks at instance-data.json we'll shortly have a 'cloud-init query' subcommand which allows one to query the struct without having to parse the data file directly. Some of those query changes will also surface improved 'region' detection on a couple of clouds. I'll add you as a reviewer when that branch is up, just for a glance to see if it's of interest.
[17:15] <sergiusens> blackboxsw: heh, well the person you want to reach out to is mvo; I personally work on only snapcraft these days
[17:15] <blackboxsw> +1 thx
[17:15] <sergiusens> my snapd days ended almost 3 years ago :-)
[18:01] <zyga> pstolowski|afk: now yes
[18:01] <zyga> mvo: I can tinker perhaps enough to get a Getty
[18:09] <mvo> zyga: good luck
[18:54]  * zyga just states for the record that we have some idea why the dragon image is not working
[19:22] <mup> PR snapd#5734 opened: tests: remove /etc/alternatives from dirs-not-shared-with-host <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5734>
[19:56]  * zyga EODs
[20:09]  * zyga likes https://commit.style/
[21:43] <mup> PR snapcraft#2226 closed: templates: reimplement templates as python classes <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2226>


[01:09] <spanky1980> knome it's telling me that my kernal needs to be recompialed since it cannot a find linux.h file
[01:54] <keke> Hi,  I've installed xubuntu and now get this error in Movie Player when I try to play a dvd:Could not open location; you might not have permission to open the file.
[01:56] <keke> well thought I'd try this irc but it seems like noone uses it for support?
[02:01] <knome> !dvd | keke
[02:01] <djura-san> hey knome do you know any gtk dropbox for wget?
[02:01] <djura-san> gwget is not working (drag n drop)
[02:01] <knome> nope :)
[02:01] <djura-san> okay
[02:02] <Balsaq> knome!
[02:02] <knome> Balsaq, ;]
[02:03] <Balsaq> got a mouse on a parachute now
[02:04] <keke> ubottu -the links you sent: thats how I set up the dvd with all the correct codecs etc. now I get the error I posted
[02:04] <knome> Balsaq, parachute?
[02:05] <knome> np: Coldplay / Parachutes
[02:05] <Balsaq> yeah that xubuntu mouse i drew...i have him on a parachute....still workin on it
[02:06] <knome> okay
[02:06] <Deviouz> keke, you should install libdvdcss2
[02:07] <keke> deviouz: I did already
[02:07] <Deviouz> are you sure you are not in the guest acount or something?
[02:09] <keke> yep admin access
[02:09] <Deviouz> and you have installed the restricted extras?
[02:09] <keke> yep
[02:09] <Deviouz> what played are you using?
[02:09] <knome> spanky1980, hmm, installing the kernel modules (and probably running the vmware configuration again) should work
[02:09] <Deviouz> wich
[02:10] <Deviouz> can you please try vlc
[02:10] <keke> totem
[02:10] <keke> I'll try vlc again
[02:11] <Deviouz> and you should probaly check so the dvd is ok
[02:11] <Deviouz> try another dvd
[02:11] <Deviouz> just to be sure
[02:11] <knome> keke, you might also need libdvdread3 and libdvdnav4
[02:12] <keke> just found this on forumsudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh, tried vlc and its working! thanks for hanging in there with me!
[02:12] <knome> keke, yep, that actually *installs* css
[02:13] <keke> hmm as a newbie wouldnt that be part of codecs install?
[02:13] <knome> well, i agree it should
[02:13] <knome> but that's not how it goes
[02:13] <Deviouz> congrats keke
[02:13] <knome> it's unclear whether we can or can not install that by default
[02:14] <knome> afaik
[02:14] <knome> it kind of breaks some of the "copy protection systems"
[02:15] <Legendre> Evening..
[02:15] <knome> !hi | Legendre
[02:16] <Legendre> Have a problem. Fresh install of Karmic on IBM T-30 laptop. notes from the XFCE applets (appear in upper right, stuff like "your battery is fully charged, etc) are scrambled.
[02:17] <Legendre> The box just contains random video garbage, it's unreadable.
[02:17] <Deviouz> sounds like you need to change videodriver
[02:17] <knome> Legendre, can you imagebin a screenshot?
[02:17] <Legendre> it's like the grapic is from the wrong memory region..
[02:17] <Deviouz> have you tryed to change resolution?
[02:18] <Deviouz> it can make a big difference
[02:19] <keke> okay deviouz and knome thanks a tone
[02:19] <Legendre> Deviouz: possibly so, but I've no idea how to force a driver on modern Xorg servers. I used to write/edit my own xf86 config files, but the files on *buntu are really sparse. The server (or kernel) selects drivers automagically.
[02:19] <Legendre> Deviouz: what's the approved method for changing res on Xubuntu?
[02:20] <Legendre> (and I think it might be running at max res already, this is a T30.. 1024x768 max, I THINK)
[02:20] <Deviouz> you just need to go into settings >
[02:20] <Deviouz> then change resolution and see if that helps
[02:21] <Legendre> Ok. I don't have the machine here, it's my mom's.. set it up for her today. It's mostly OK, but I'd really like to fix this issue.
[02:22] <Deviouz> right click>programs>settings thats it:)
[02:22] <Legendre> one other issue.. just for the record. Sometimes, the wifi doesn't work when the machine boots.. have to reboot to get it working. That stinks, really.
[02:22] <Deviouz> if thats not helping you need to change the videodriver
[02:23] <Deviouz> weh,, that is something I never dealt with, maybe sombody else can help with that
[02:23] <Deviouz> good luck
[02:24] <Legendre> oh, and wicd was acting up. It was ignoring changes to prefs for a particular network.. it was trying to use WPA, even though it ws set for WEP - and hence unable to join the network. Baffling.
[02:24] <Legendre> thanks Deviouz
[02:24] <Deviouz> np:)
[02:24] <Legendre> so how do I force a driver on it, and which one would I use?? =)
[02:24] <Legendre> it's an ATI chipset
[02:25] <Legendre> or at least that's what lspci says.
[02:25] <Deviouz> first, you need to find out what graphics card you have in that notebook
[02:25] <knome> Legendre, have you looked at jockey?
[02:25] <Deviouz> and then google it,
[02:25] <Deviouz> and then you should find it in synaptic
[02:26] <Deviouz> make sure you have all the repos
[02:26] <Deviouz> then its just to install the prooper driver
[02:26] <Legendre> knome: nope, I know not of jockey
[02:26] <Deviouz> reboot
[02:27] <Legendre> it's like a radeon mobility 9XXX or some crap
[02:27] <Legendre> knome: what is jockey?
[02:27] <knome> Legendre, applications -> system -> hardware drivers
[02:28] <Legendre> knome: hm, there's a proprietary ATI driver??
[02:28] <knome> Legendre, that app should tell you if you need propietary drivers and lets you install and manage them
[02:28] <Legendre> sure, I know about that.. thought there were only props. for nvidia
[02:28] <Legendre> I'll have to give it a look...
[02:28] <knome> Legendre, if the driver is enabled, try disabling it. if it's disabled, try enabling it.
[02:28] <Deviouz> check this Legendre https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsAti
[02:29] <Deviouz> when you install a new driver it will automaticly disable and uninstall the old one
[02:30] <Legendre> thanks for that, Deviouz
[02:30] <Deviouz> you need to be very sure you pick the right one for your card, otherwice you might not see anything on that screen
[02:30] <Legendre> knome: but I still don't know what 'jockey' is?
[02:31] <Deviouz> np, but lets hope its just the resolution, try that first:)
[02:31] <knome> Legendre, the "hardware drivers" app is names jockey
[02:31] <knome> *named
[02:32] <Deviouz> Jockey is a user-space library for recording and replaying an execution of generic x86 GNU/Linux programs.
[02:32] <Legendre> ah! very good, thanks for that
[02:32] <Legendre> hm?? lol
[02:32] <knome> suppose that's a different jockey then
[02:33] <Legendre> thing is, maybe it's not running at max res.. but mom is old, she likes the display.  I never cared much for slick desktops, etc..
[02:46] <Deviouz> and lets not talk about Gentoo, OH MY GOD!
[02:46] <Legendre> I always ran blackbox or fluxbox on it, it was great.
[02:46] <Legendre> Gentoo is goofy.. I don't see the point.
[02:47] <Deviouz> you know how many times I run configure make and make install,
[02:47] <Deviouz> probably 1000000
[02:47] <Legendre> I mean, I do understand it.. I ran it for a while on one box, but just not worth all the conniptions
[02:47] <Deviouz> no its fun in the beginning but then, noo noo
[02:47] <Legendre> and yes, I've built oodles of softs under Slack..
[02:48] <Legendre> hundreds of kernels.. back when I was into that kind of thing.
[02:48] <Deviouz> thats cool
[02:48] <Legendre> I still run slack (13) on a couple machines here, where I don't need gui.
[02:48] <Deviouz> its so much better to have apt do all that things:)
[02:49] <Legendre> well, yeah.. but my level of trust is so-so..
[02:49] <knome> uhm.... *cough*
[02:49] <Deviouz> sure slack is a bit faster but not by much
[02:49] <knome> !offtopic
[02:49] <knome> :]
[02:49] <Deviouz> you have a cold knome?
[02:49] <Deviouz> :)
[02:49] <knome> i'm not sure actually
[02:49] <Legendre> knome: hey, nobody else is talking.. if there is any legit xubu discussion, I'd yield.
[02:49] <knome> i'm going to bed
[02:50] <Deviouz> sleep good
[02:50]  * Legendre is an old hand at IRC.. know the rules
[02:50] <knome> yeah, keep the discussion going as long as it concerns computers ;)
[02:50] <Deviouz> distros is ok too?:)
[02:51] <knome> Deviouz, yes, but as Legendre said, only as long as nobody needs support
[02:51] <Legendre> Hey, how do I wire a serial cable to connect my Tandy 102 -> PC port.. so I can run it as a term?
[02:51] <knome> Legendre, i've irced 10 years also :)
[02:51] <Legendre> cool beans.
[02:51] <Deviouz> Im sure if someone like support they will make their voice heard:)
[02:51] <Legendre> need a geritol? I have plenty..
[02:51] <knome> Deviouz, hope so. :)
[02:52]  * Legendre is old and decrepit, please mock him.
[02:52] <knome> hehe
[02:52] <Deviouz> lol
[02:52]  * knome hugs Legendre ;)
[02:52] <knome> have fun guys
[02:52] <knome> and have a nice day/night!
[02:53] <Legendre> Ohh! My hip, it's broken!
[02:53] <Deviouz> lmao:)
[02:53] <Legendre> you too knome, thanks for the shatt..
[03:53] <randhol> Hi. I need to get a machine to ask the dhcp server for a specific address: f.ex <IP_ADDRESS> due to firewall etc.... I changed the setup in xfce4 in the NetworkManager gui. However some days later I found that my settings had been reset to automatic dhcp.  So my question is if I need to do this setup somewhere else in a config file as this way of doing it in NetworkManager does not seem to be stable.
[03:53] <randhol> running xubuntu karmic
[03:54] <j1mc> randhol: so ... you just need a static ip then?
[03:54] <randhol> just a local static
[03:54] <j1mc> the dhcp server is on your own network?
[03:55] <randhol> yes it is the fiber-modem
[03:56] <randhol> I need to setup the firewall in the modem to allow ssh from outside as I'm managing this computer from some 1000km away
[03:56] <j1mc> i think something like this should do it: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-set-a-static-ip-address-in-ubuntu-810-intrepid-ibex.html
[03:56] <randhol> in the firewall settings I need to put a spesific local IP
[03:58] <randhol> ah
[03:58] <randhol> thanks!
[03:59] <randhol> So get rid of the network manager and do the same setup in the config files
[03:59] <randhol> I'll have a try at this as soon as the running simulation finishes
[03:59] <randhol> thanks!
[04:34] <raevol> hey all, when are xubuntu meetings held?
[08:28] <arthy> hi
[11:39] <Some_Person> Is it possible to hide menu items from Xfce but not GNOME and/or KDE?
[11:52] <silare> Is there a way for me to get the Albatross theme for GNOME as well?
[12:00] <Some_Person> silare: errm, it's a normal gtk theme as far as i can tell. should work in gnome already
[12:03] <silare> I know it's a normal GTK theme, but what about the window border?
[15:48] <zeus> i just installed xubuntu 9.10 im unable to install the updates while the update notifier says tht things are supposed to be installed
[17:14] <charlie-tca> Sysi: you around today?
[17:19] <Sysi> mostly
[17:20] <charlie-tca> If you remember yesterday, questions about the nvidia 185 driver not starting gdm in lucid?
[17:20] <charlie-tca> Only nvidia driver to work in lucid is 190, which has to be downloaded from nvidia
[17:20] <charlie-tca> I thing is is not out in final version yet
[17:22] <charlie-tca> well, let me try that line again. I think it is not out in final version from nvidia yet
[17:22] <charlie-tca> but he was right, 185 will not allow gdm to start in lucid
[17:24] <Sysi> alphas are always interesting
[17:25] <charlie-tca> oh yeah!
[17:25] <Sysi> i could put lucid on that old machine
[17:25] <Sysi> exept that it may is broken
[17:25] <charlie-tca> It is a bit tricky, right now
[17:25] <charlie-tca> lucid or the machine broken?
[17:27] <Sysi> machine
[17:27] <charlie-tca> :-(
[17:27] <charlie-tca> makes it much harder
[17:37] <bobobob> help....I cannot boot under the glx-185 drivers.  I login and it flickers a few times and then it asked me to login in again...infinite loop.  If I boot into low graphics, I can boot whole way.... :(
[17:38] <charlie-tca> Using what version of Xubunt?
[17:39] <charlie-tca> Only nvidia driver to work in lucid is 190, which has to be downloaded from nvidia
[17:40] <bobobob> karmic...sorry
[17:41] <charlie-tca> switch to a tty if you can, run 'sudo apt-get update', then  'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade', restart using 'sudo shutdown -r now'
[17:41] <charlie-tca> see if it helps
[17:42] <bobobob> k...
[17:42] <charlie-tca> something got thrown out of date or did not complete the installation
[17:43] <bobobob> guess I could try the nvidia driver from nvidia....
[17:43] <charlie-tca> Might try an "sudo apt-get check" too, to look for broken dependencies
[17:45] <bobobob> all up to date....
[17:45] <bobobob> check is good too...
[17:45] <charlie-tca> I have run into that issue on VBox, but not in hardware
[17:46] <bobobob> lol...I use vbox quite a bit too.  did I mention that I hate to use windows....?
[17:47] <bobobob> can you sudo apt-get purge nvidia-glx-185 or will that really mess X11 up?
[17:49] <charlie-tca> you can
[17:50] <charlie-tca> well, I have, anyway
[17:50] <charlie-tca> I purged nvidia once though. What a mess
[17:50] <bobobob> gee that installs confidence.... :)
[17:50] <charlie-tca> :-)
[17:51] <bobobob> now I get a message that it needs to run in low graphics...but it does login now... ;)
[17:52] <bobobob> how do you install latest nvidia driver/settings, do you go to nvidia.com or somewheres else?
[17:52] <charlie-tca> yes, you have to download them from nvidia.
[17:53] <bobobob> k
[17:53] <charlie-tca> Did you install through system - hardware drivers?
[17:53] <bobobob> yep
[18:04] <Deviouz> im having a severe problem with gdm
[18:05] <Deviouz> I type my pw and it working little and then throws be back out,
[18:05] <Deviouz> now I cant log into my system:(
[18:14] <Deviouz> comon anyone
[18:14] <Deviouz> would it work if I uninstall it?
[18:16] <Deviouz> knome you there?
[18:18] <knome> Deviouz, yup
[18:18] <Deviouz> hi
[18:19] <Deviouz> can you help me with gdm
[18:19] <Deviouz> I hate this thing
[18:19] <bobobob> boo...I have a quadro nvs 160m...all they have for it is a beta 169.04 from 2007
[18:19] <bobobob> Deviouz: I am having same problem
[18:20] <Deviouz> yes this is a big bug for sure!
[18:20] <knome> Deviouz, sudo apt-get remove --purge gdm
[18:20] <Deviouz> it seem buggy as hell, is this a beta version?
[18:20] <bobobob> I figured it was the video driver since I could login fine using the low graphics
[18:20] <bobobob> have you tried low graphics login?
[18:20] <Deviouz> I already have low graphics
[18:21] <bobobob> mine worked fine for about 2 weeks, it must be some new change
[18:21] <bobobob> with nvidia....just started this yesterday
[18:21] <Deviouz> maybe it will work better if install an older version?
[18:21] <bobobob> like I said low graphics works fine
[18:21] <bobobob> here
[18:22] <bobobob> Deviouz: what video drivers are you using
[18:22] <Deviouz> so you just changed the resolituion then?
[18:22] <Deviouz> I haveing an old tnt/riva card
[18:23] <bobobob> no...I did a recovery boot, I think it was called...it was in the grub menu.  Then I uninstalled my nvidia graphics, then I reboot, then it said it needed to boot one session with low graphics
[18:24] <Deviouz> I see, and then you can still use nvidia drivers after that?
[18:26] <Deviouz> I noticed the resolution was set way too high when I had it freshly installed, I had a really blurry screen
[18:26] <Deviouz> I changed that and got it ok
[18:26] <bobobob> Deviouz: nope...until this gets resolved on xubuntus side, I guess I will just login low graphics for a while
[18:27] <Deviouz> hmm, wouldnt it work if just change the resolution in X?
[18:27] <Deviouz> question is how?
[18:28] <Deviouz> ok thanks bobobob, I will have a go at it
[18:29] <bobobob> i tried changing resolution in x while using nvidia drivers, but no luck
[18:31] <Deviouz> ok then, I will give it one more chance and if it doenst obey I will Purge it to helll!!>:
[18:31] <Deviouz> :P
[18:32] <Deviouz> bye for now
[18:56] <Balsaq> Hyvaa uuttavuotta !!!
[19:00] <Balsaq> Ungu' Bradun Dowg ?
[19:05] <ljamisonii> hello all
[19:06] <Balsaq> welcome ljamisonii
[19:06] <knome> Balsaq, you forgot the umlauts! :)
[19:06] <knome> Hyvää uutta vuotta! :)
[19:06] <Balsaq> wooops
[19:07] <Balsaq> got newt or
[19:07] <Balsaq> onnellista uutto voutta
[19:07] <knome> *uutta vuotta
[19:07] <knome> otherwise you are correct ;)
[19:07] <knome> and you too
[19:07] <Balsaq> thank you
[19:10] <ljamisonii> Balsaq, thanks :)
[19:10] <Ben_Monkey> Hello everyone
[19:14] <Balsaq> Greetings Ben_Monkey
[19:15] <Ben_Monkey> Hi ;)
[19:16] <Ben_Monkey> i did an online update from 9.04 to 9.10 last week and am having some issues
[19:17] <Ben_Monkey> just looking for some advice on where to start looking
[19:20] <Ben_Monkey> i assume there is a config file that controls the indavidual user's session...
[19:20] <Ben_Monkey> though i dont know where or which file that is
[19:20] <Ben_Monkey> whoops
[19:21] <Ben_Monkey> definately mispelled that :(
[19:22] <charlie-tca> config files should be in ~/.config and ~/.local. But sometimes gnome comes into it and you need to tweak something in ~/.gnome2 or ~/.gconf
[19:22] <charlie-tca> What kind of issues are you having?
[19:24] <Ben_Monkey> after i login, when xfce is selected as the session type, the screen flicks to black  and returns to the login screen. I f i select xterm as the session type, it has no issue
[19:25] <charlie-tca> Try deleting ~/.cache
[19:25] <Ben_Monkey> okay will do
[19:25] <charlie-tca> then look in ~/.xsession-errors for any hints. After that, reboot from the tty using sudo shutdown -r now
[19:25] <Ben_Monkey> in home...?
[19:26] <charlie-tca> yup, /home/$USER/.cache ; it is a hidden file, that's why starts with .
[19:27] <Ben_Monkey> sounds good
[19:27] <charlie-tca> fingers crossed, too
[19:27] <charlie-tca> sometimes though, it works
[19:29] <charlie-tca> Oh, look in ~/.dmrc for hints too. It may have "session=xubuntu" or xfce or something one time only. more than once means delete the extra lines of it
[19:29] <Ben_Monkey> aon a separate note, how does that whole session start process work? i assume a config file is consulted and lists things like xfce4-panel, xfce-session, xfce4-calender, etc...
[19:30] <charlie-tca> yes, but it should start at /etc/xdg first, then it comes back to your /home and individual changes
[19:31] <charlie-tca> Anyone here got 9.10 working?
[19:35] <Ben_Monkey> funny thing i had a similar problem when i did an over-the-air updated from 8.10 to 9.04 on a separate system
[19:35] <Ben_Monkey> should have learned my leason ;)
[19:35] <charlie-tca> Lots of us had that one
[19:36] <charlie-tca> that was due to the change to Xfce 4.6 from 4.4. The configurations did not convert and you had to delete them to get it working
[19:36] <charlie-tca> This one, I don't know. I haven't had a problem today
[19:37] <charlie-tca> But then, I did reinstall over Christmas, too
[19:39] <Deviouz> bobobob I installed xdm:) its butt ugly but it works
[19:49] <Ben_Monkey> okay changing screen resolution from the command line.... dont know where to start any pointers?
 have a look at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973
[19:53] <Deviouz> bobobob say you can do it from the boot aswell ,,within the grub menu, failsafe mode or something
[19:53] <Ben_Monkey> thanks
[19:53] <Ben_Monkey> reading
[19:54] <Deviouz> hope it helps
[20:17] <Ben_Monkey> no luck on deleteing .cache
[20:20] <Ov3rf10w> Ben_Monkey, what your problem?
[20:28] <knome> !resolution | Balsaq
[20:28] <knome> oops!
[20:28] <knome> !resolution | Ben_Monkey
[20:28] <knome> sorry for the flooding. :P
[20:51] <Deviouz> !resolution | Ben_Monkey
[20:52] <Deviouz> thats cool
[20:52] <Deviouz> !help
[20:53] <Deviouz> !commands
[20:54] <hal_> happy new year all
[20:59] <charlie-tca> Happy New Year to all!
[20:59] <hal_> ditto charlie
[21:04] <Ben_Monkey> in etc/xdg/, what does the xfconf migration script do/
[21:13] <Ben_Monkey> ?
[21:14] <hal_> whats up Ben?
[21:16] <Ben_Monkey> hi hal
[21:16] <Ben_Monkey> been troubleshooting some low level xfce issues after updateing to 4.6
[21:17] <Ben_Monkey> wasn't able to login to an xfce based session (only xterm), deleted .cache and had some intermitent positive results
[21:17] <Ben_Monkey> just cp'ing some sensitive data over
[21:18] <Ben_Monkey> should have updated as root :(, maybe then this wouldn't have been so painfull
[21:24] <hal_> maybe, should nt
[21:24] <hal_> be
[21:25] <Ben_Monkey> i have had session issues  twice after updateing from 8.10 to 9.04 and 9.04 to 9.10 on separate systems, one thing i had in common was i ran both updates from my user account
[21:25] <Ben_Monkey> which i had removed from the root group...
[21:27] <hal_> i always had trouble on the updates. i found backing up my files and just doing a straight download after burning the new cd saved me alot of headaches
[21:27] <hal_> upgrades i mean
[21:32] <Ben_Monkey> yeah i probably should have done that, i just wish i understood the system better
[21:33] <hal_> time Ben, just a little time. It'll sinks it hooks in you, like it did me
[21:33] <Ben_Monkey> i am pretty sure the problem lies in a unknown config file that runs the session startup process
[21:34] <hal_> possibly. do you have another cpu that your not using?
[21:34] <hal_> thats how i learned linux
[21:34] <hal_> still learning
[21:34] <hal_> ah. hold on going to look somethin up for ya
[21:35] <Ben_Monkey> several, mostly laptops
[21:36] <Ben_Monkey> so yeah looking at my login screen, it shows two options for xfce and one for xterm. i'm thinking one of those "xfce session" bits is a borken link to 4.4 and one is the new 4.6
[21:37] <Ben_Monkey> how to remove said link....
[21:37] <Ben_Monkey> off to father google
[21:39] <hal_> another way to learn ubuntu without all the trouble is using a program that lets you download ubuntu into a folder in windows with installing. here is the link, read it over: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide?action=show&redirect=Wubi
[21:42] <hal_> its a good way to run and learn it without installing into your hard drive..until your ready
[21:43] <Ben_Monkey> nice thanks ;)
[21:45] <Ben_Monkey> i find i learn best when i can talk things over, get the big concepts down in my head
[21:45] <Ben_Monkey> how do people do that these days short of having a saavy friend ?
[22:05] <Ben_Monkey> removing them reinstalling xfce... anyone
[22:05] <Ben_Monkey> from command line;)
[22:16] <Ben_Monkey> never mind working the google
[22:45] <molecule_> HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! 2010


[01:31] <tgm4883> Apparently I need to brush up on my networking
[01:31] <tgm4883> barely passed a prelimenary tech screen
[01:32] <thefinn93> tsk tsk
[01:32] <tgm4883> Yea I didn't know what type of DNS record IPv6 addresses are stored in
[01:33] <tgm4883> and how many bits was in a MAC address (although I knew, I just did the math wrong :( )
[01:33] <thefinn93> ah
[01:33] <thefinn93> what type of DNS records are IPv6 addresses stored in?
[01:33] <tgm4883> There were only like 6 questions
[01:34] <tgm4883> I was told it was A records, looking it up now it looks like it might be AAAA records (quad A)
[01:34] <thefinn93> huh
[01:34] <tgm4883> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6541
[01:36] <thefinn93> bllaahh
[01:36] <thefinn93> that is longer than i can sit still for just now
[01:36] <tgm4883> yea I just browsed it
[01:37] <tgm4883> I figure I'll wait until I see when my next interview is, then start studying before that
[01:37] <tgm4883> I think it's just a trick question, and that A record suffices
[01:38] <thefinn93> huh
[01:38] <thefinn93> well best of luck to you
[01:39] <tgm4883> thanks
[01:39] <tgm4883> although it would mean moving, and leaving the oregon team
[01:39] <thefinn93> :(
[02:24] <bkerensa> AAAA
[02:24] <bkerensa> for win
[02:25] <bkerensa> :(
[02:25] <bkerensa> tgm4883: You coming to the Global Jam in Portland?
[03:04] <tgm4883> bkerensa, when is it?
[03:05] <bkerensa> Sept 3rd from 2-4pm in Portland
[03:05] <bkerensa> :D
[03:05] <tgm4883> Yea I should be there
[03:19] <thefinn93> test
[03:19] <thefinn93> ok better
[03:45] <thefinn93> does anyone here know any ruby?
[03:45] <thefinn93> i'm trying to install something
[03:45] <thefinn93> an it's giving me annoying errors
[03:45] <thefinn93> RDoc failure in lib/rex/encoders/xor_dword_additive.rb.ut.rb at or around line 10 column 0
[03:45] <thefinn93> specifically
[03:59] <bkerensa> metasploit
[04:00] <thefinn93> yeah
[04:00] <thefinn93> what about it?
[04:00] <bkerensa> nothing :P
[04:00] <thefinn93> ok
[04:00] <thefinn93> it's not what I'm installing
[04:01] <thefinn93> but I think librex is somehting related to it
[04:01] <thefinn93> because when i google it
[04:01] <thefinn93> it comes up with the metasploit page
[04:02] <thefinn93> trying to install BeEF on the VPS
[07:48] <thefinn93> bkerensa, yout here
[07:48] <thefinn93> ?
[17:15] <bkerensa> thefinn93: Hey sorry I saw your PM but my comcast got terminated temporarily (idk they are switching me to Bus Class today)
[17:15] <thefinn93> ok
[17:15] <thefinn93> check out the trimet applet
[17:15] <thefinn93> it rocks
[17:15] <thefinn93> also,it works
[18:00] <shantorn> hello0
[18:00] <thefinn93> hello
[18:12] <shantorn> whats new?
[18:13] <thefinn93> I'm making a GNOME applet for Trimet arrivals
[18:13] <thefinn93> and it's actually working
[18:13] <thefinn93> which is new
[18:13] <shantorn> how does it get the input data?
[18:13] <thefinn93> the Trimet API
[18:14] <thefinn93> https://github.com/thefinn93/GNOME-trimet
[18:14] <thefinn93> take a look at the code
[18:31] <urlin2u> you have an image on line?
[18:32] <thefinn93> what?
[18:33] <urlin2u> the trimet applet
[18:33] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:33] <thefinn93> grab the code off github
[18:33] <thefinn93> that's the best i've got
[18:33] <thefinn93> so far
[18:33] <urlin2u> cool
[18:33] <thefinn93> I'd like to package it up into a deb eventually
[18:33] <thefinn93> and stick it in a ppa
[18:34] <urlin2u> for us that hate tars yipee
[18:34] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:36] <urlin2u> looks good similar to there others I think, I ride the bus exclusively.
[18:36] <thefinn93> cool
[18:36] <thefinn93> yeah i ride the bus and my bike
[18:37] <thefinn93> about that applet: it's still beta and wanting in features
[18:37] <thefinn93> I'm currently changing the way it stores it's config, so when you update it it'll probably lose your settings
[18:37] <thefinn93> also it uses my API key, which shouldn't be a problem for now
[18:38] <thefinn93> but I'd like to out what to do about that
[18:38] <thefinn93> maybe make several API keys
[18:38] <thefinn93> each gets 250,000 requests per day
[18:39] <urlin2u> bike here to the bus, lol. Are they contracting you for this?
[18:39] <thefinn93> nope
[18:39] <thefinn93> i wanted it so i made it
[18:39] <urlin2u> cool for your phone, or just messing around
[18:40] <thefinn93> just messing around
[18:40] <urlin2u> not a bad hobby.
[18:41] <urlin2u> the messing around part
[18:41] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:41] <thefinn93> i'd say so
[18:41] <thefinn93> this applet has come from two nights of staying up late and coding
[18:42] <thefinn93> it's hard to test when the bus stops running though
[18:42] <urlin2u> and caffeine?
[18:42] <thefinn93> actually no
[18:42] <thefinn93> i do like me some caffeine, but i did not partake this time
[18:42] <urlin2u> ah
[18:43] <urlin2u> portland coffee, and beer central.;-)
[18:43] <thefinn93> yeah.
[18:43]  * thefinn93 is underage, can't drink
[18:44] <urlin2u> ah, I rarely drink a beer but it's nice to have a high quality fresh choice
[18:45] <urlin2u> you going to go to college for IT?
[18:45] <thefinn93> that's the plan
[18:45] <thefinn93> going up to Washington in a month
[18:45] <urlin2u> cool, you have a choice of schools yet
[18:45] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:45] <urlin2u> WSU
[18:45] <thefinn93> University of Washington
[18:45] <thefinn93> specifically the Bothell campus
[18:46] <urlin2u> close to the MS, that is okay, different grading system there I believe as wel
[18:46] <thefinn93> yeah  i think they use 1 2 3 4 or something, not ABCD, should be interesting
[18:46] <thefinn93> and yes, close to MS
[18:47] <thefinn93> heavy ties to MS
[18:47] <thefinn93> i don't like it much
[18:47] <thefinn93> but it's ok, I'll get them all using Loonix by the end
[18:47] <urlin2u> say hello to steve b for us.;-)
[18:47] <thefinn93> lol
[18:48] <thefinn93> ...developers, developers, developers, developers...
[18:48] <urlin2u> if we last as a species ong enough open source wil be the end I think
[18:48] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:48] <thefinn93> even M$ is heavily supporting web standards in their new OS
[18:49] <urlin2u> I have heard that, actually W7 is not bad if it weren't for all the danger and maintenance needed
[18:49] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:50] <thefinn93> i have heard that
[18:50] <urlin2u> I bought W7 pro through msdnn or whatever it's called as a student 25$ basically to know a bit to help window users
[18:51] <thefinn93> huh
[18:51] <thefinn93> yeah i imagine that'd be useful
[18:51] <thefinn93> i've considered getting it
[18:51] <thefinn93> i think UW will give me  a copy
[18:51] <thefinn93> so i might install it next to Ubuntu
[18:51] <thefinn93> for support purposes
[18:51] <urlin2u> I have spent a lot of time on the UF helping the dual booters.
[18:52] <thefinn93> UF?
[18:52] <urlin2u> ubunbtu forums
[18:52] <thefinn93> ah
[18:52] <thefinn93> yeah
[18:52] <urlin2u> 3 nics over 10,000 posts
[18:52] <thefinn93> damn
[18:52] <thefinn93> not bad
[18:52] <urlin2u> to much free time here.
[18:52] <thefinn93> i'll say
[18:53] <thefinn93> do you code?
[18:53] <urlin2u> no, just a enthusiast, more a addiction really.
[18:53] <urlin2u> got my first computer at freegeek
[18:53] <thefinn93> cool
[18:53] <thefinn93> i believe i did similar
[18:54] <thefinn93> oh yes, it was a Free Geek laptop
[18:54] <thefinn93> costs me all of $8
[18:54] <thefinn93> including case and charger and stuff
[18:54] <thefinn93> got what I paid for
[18:54] <urlin2u> at about the age of 43 on returning to college at PSU 4 years ago, first at free geek 40$ dapper
[18:55] <thefinn93> nice
[18:55] <urlin2u> wiped it 3 times in the first 6 months accidentally lol
[18:55] <thefinn93> lol
[18:55] <urlin2u> thought of home I don't need that.
[18:55] <thefinn93> lol
[18:57] <urlin2u> uh oh it's the big cheese. ;-)
[18:57] <urlin2u> hide the goods
[18:57] <thefinn93> he's leaving
[18:57] <thefinn93> he was on Jabber, not sure why he wasn't on IRC
[18:58] <thefinn93> bkerensa, y u say "ttyl" on jabber then hop on IRC
[18:58] <thefinn93> whatever
[18:58]  * thefinn93 has to go do stuff IRL
[18:58] <urlin2u> probably the touchpad is on
[18:58] <urlin2u> see yah
[19:38] <bkerensa|mobile> thefinn93: you sure you don't wanna go to this corporate party with me? I'm rsvp +1
[23:02]  * bkerensa is so hot
[23:02] <bkerensa> :(
[23:02] <bkerensa> now I gotta go to Best Buy and buy a new Dual Band N Router
[23:11]  * bkerensa responded to some mailing list stuff and other loco e-mails now I'm out the door to do some stuff
[23:11] <bkerensa> :D
[23:14]  * thefinn93 responded before, but forgot how to mailing list
[23:14] <thefinn93> does anyone here know how to package a python project as a .deb file?
[23:15] <thefinn93> i'd like to pack up my trimet applet
[23:26] <bkerensa|mobile> hmm
[23:26] <bkerensa|mobile> on highway to beaverton best buy
[23:26] <bkerensa|mobile> need to get n routers while they are on sale
[23:29] <bkerensa|mobile> hmm it's next to staples
[23:30] <bkerensa|mobile> hi urlin2u
[23:30] <urlin2u> hello, just finished my fafsa for schoo, I love Sallie Mae
[23:30] <urlin2u> school
[23:30] <bkerensa|mobile> nice
[23:31] <urlin2u> you at the BBQ
[23:31] <bkerensa|mobile> nah I'm headed to best buy
[23:31] <bkerensa|mobile> gotta get some n routers
[23:31] <urlin2u> ah I figuterd computer stuff.
[23:31] <bkerensa|mobile> yeah
[23:32] <bkerensa|mobile> work work work :p
[23:32] <thefinn93> urlin2u, did you do your fasfa on linux?
[23:32] <urlin2u> I might pick up a psudo ipad when schoo starts.
[23:32] <thefinn93> i've heard they won't let you
[23:32] <thefinn93> lol an iPad
[23:32] <urlin2u> pseudo
[23:33] <urlin2u> gotta look man
[23:33] <urlin2u> cool
[23:33] <urlin2u> lol
[23:33] <thefinn93> ohh pseudo
[23:33] <thefinn93> didn't see that
[23:33] <urlin2u> no did it in windows the sig wants IE
[23:33] <urlin2u> just easier it works but errors
[23:34] <urlin2u> in linux
[23:34] <urlin2u> more likely a twin for my 2 terra external
[23:36] <urlin2u> I have done the fafsa in ubuntu even with IE in W7 youget a unsupported browser. They want like ie6 probably worked tough
[23:36] <urlin2u> though
[23:38] <thefinn93> huh
[23:39] <urlin2u> kind of jumbled there eh.
[23:39] <thefinn93> when i went there they said it had to be Windows or Mac and various popular browsers. No linux
[23:39] <thefinn93> our Web browser is not supported by our Web site. You must use a Compliant Web Browser - Standard* to view our site properly. We recommend you upgrade to the latest version of your browser according to your Operating System.
[23:39] <urlin2u> I have done the re apply in ubuntu, the signature at the end errored, but still went through
[23:40] <thefinn93> https://fafsa.ed.gov/FAFSA/app/errors?page=incompatibleBrowser
[23:40] <urlin2u> I got that with IE whatever 9 I think and firefox, used IE no problem .
[23:41] <urlin2u> must be the IE( that got me the same page.
[23:41] <urlin2u> 9
[23:42] <urlin2u> fafsa wants you to go to school. ;-)
[23:42] <thefinn93> fafsa want's to get in my way
[23:42] <urlin2u> is it parents stuff
[23:42] <urlin2u> income basically
[23:43] <thefinn93> yeah but it's still annoying that they block linux
[23:43] <thefinn93> i filled it out a while ago
[23:43] <urlin2u> yeah, I have used it though the srver knows no better.
[23:43] <thefinn93> New party ('Finn Herzfeld') has joined the session:
[23:43] <thefinn93> Welcome to FAFSA on the Web Customer Service Live Help!
[23:43] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: hello, Your site is telling me I have an incompatible browser, but then tells me that Firefox is recommended. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong (currently running Firefox 7.0 beta), I got the same message using Chrome 13.
[23:43] <thefinn93> this should be interesting
[23:44] <urlin2u> better safe than sorry in the end so I woke up W7 just for the occasion.
[23:44] <thefinn93> yeah
[23:44] <urlin2u> you get the answer stuff yet
[23:44] <thefinn93> New party ('Kelsey Brown') has joined the session:
[23:44] <thefinn93> Thank you for contacting the Federal Student Aid Information Center.  I’m Kelsey Brown, your online Customer Service Representative.  Give me a minute to review your question, and I’ll do my best to assist you.
[23:44] <thefinn93> Kelsey Brown: What is the operating system that your computer has?
[23:44] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: Ubuntu Linux
[23:44] <thefinn93> just came in
[23:45] <thefinn93> this should be lulzy
[23:45] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: Ubuntu Linux
[23:45] <thefinn93> Kelsey Brown: Operating system would be Windows XP, Windows Vista, Mac OS 10.5...
[23:45] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: Ubuntu Linux 11.04 Natty Narwhal
[23:46] <urlin2u> they would love you at PSU, open source is part of the curriculum, as far as colleges go,.
[23:46] <thefinn93> that's awesome
[23:46] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: Ubuntu Linux 11.04 Natty Narwhal
[23:46] <thefinn93> Kelsey Brown: That is not what I'm looking for I need the Operating System please.
[23:46] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: that is the name of my operating system
[23:46] <thefinn93> wtf
[23:47] <urlin2u> ran ib to a cc major running arch awhile back
[23:47] <urlin2u> into
[23:48] <thefinn93> Kelsey Brown: What operating system are you using? (Such as Windows 7 or Vista or XP , Mac 10.6 or 10.5 or 10.4,)  I need this in order to assist you today.
[23:48] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: I am using Linux. Specifically Ubuntu. THe latest stable version. That is the name of my operating system.
[23:48] <urlin2u> is that dialogue from the fafsa site?
[23:48] <thefinn93> yes
[23:48] <urlin2u> lol, you against the server
[23:48] <urlin2u> gotta get ion and unplug it.
[23:49] <urlin2u> .gov it is probably unix
[23:49] <thefinn93> Kelsey Brown: That is not compatible with our web site.  You will need to use a different computer in order to access our site.
[23:49] <thefinn93> Finn Herzfeld: why is that? It runs firefox fine, which renders the same across operating systems
[23:50] <thefinn93> LOL
[23:50] <thefinn93> their server is running windows!
[23:50] <urlin2u> I had a reapply last year shorter setup just clarifying data, used ubuntu
[23:50] <thefinn93> < Server: Apache/2.2.15 (Win32) mod_ssl/2.2.15 OpenSSL/0.9.8m mod_jk/1.2.26
[23:50] <thefinn93> yeah i applied last year on my Ubuntu install
[23:50] <urlin2u> eww horrible MS
[23:50] <thefinn93> yeah
[23:51] <urlin2u> I didn't check when there I have netcraft on my aurora in natty
[23:52] <urlin2u> have you gotten a answer from the school for what your allocated?
[23:52] <thefinn93> ?
[23:52] <thefinn93> what i'm allocated?
[23:53] <urlin2u> the colege will tell you what the financial grants are
[23:53] <thefinn93> oh
[23:53] <thefinn93> yeah idk
[23:54] <thefinn93> i'm not 100% sure on the whole finical thing, my dad's helping me work through it
[23:54] <thefinn93> I should probably know more than I do
[23:54] <urlin2u> in oregon there is an oregon opportunity grant and pell, these cover my tuition, except for 100-200$
[23:54] <urlin2u> per term
[23:54] <urlin2u> free money
[23:56] <urlin2u> good to have the dad's help, you will figure it out fast.