[04:11] <truepurple> Could I use a NTSF partition for home?
[04:11] <philipballew> can someone help me learn how to compile software?
[04:12] <philipballew> i need to compile something
[04:12] <M0hi> truepurple: No. the home should be ext
[04:12] <M0hi> ext3 or ext4
[04:13] <M0hi> philipballew: what language?
[04:13] <truepurple> M0hi: What would happen if you tried?
[04:13] <philipballew> not sure. its a tar.gz M0hi
[04:13] <M0hi> I think I tried once and It showed that the home partition should be an extended version
[04:14] <M0hi> philipballew: you can see the codes through archive manager
[04:14] <philipballew> alright, ill open that up.
[04:14] <truepurple> M0hi: You mean it recommended ext, but you could have used NTSF if you had wanted to?
[04:15] <M0hi> It wont permit you to set NTFS
[04:15] <M0hi> (upto my knowledge)
[04:16] <philipballew> M0hi, how can i see i in archive manager. i already tar-jxf the tarball
[04:17] <M0hi> goto the target folder that you extracted to and open it and see the extension of each  files
[04:18] <truepurple> M0hi: But I could set up something that allows windows to see and use ext3, and then share /home between them that way, right?
[04:19] <philipballew> AUTHORS     evalrev     LICENSE.OpenSSL  packages  README   test
[04:19] <philipballew> ChangeLog   INSTALLING  Makefile         patchchk  scripts  VERSION
[04:19] <philipballew> common.mak  LICENSE     manpages         patches   src
[04:19] <philipballew>  is all i see M0hi
[04:20] <M0hi> truepurple: M$ wont recognize ext3. I dont know whether there is an application for that. Kindly check about that
[04:20] <M0hi> philipballew: readme didn't help you?
[04:22] <truepurple> M0hi: If there is, would it work?
[04:23] <M0hi> yeah it will. but I dont know whether there is any application like that. google about "applications to make windoze recognize ext3"
[04:26] <philipballew> no. M0hi but this is what the installing file says
[04:26] <philipballew> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/647840/
[04:28] <M0hi> lemme see
[04:29] <M0hi> Use your package manager to download aircrack-ng
[04:29] <M0hi> thats saying you to download it from synaptic
[04:30] <philipballew> yeah, but i want the newest version
[04:31] <M0hi> check whether synaptic is giving the recent one
[04:31] <M0hi> or goto synaptic, select this package and install it
[04:33] <philipballew> well the terminal says its 1.1
[04:33] <M0hi> Okay!! whats the current version you downloaded?
[04:33] <philipballew> 1.1 as well
[04:34] <M0hi> So the installed version is 1.1?
[04:35] <M0hi> heya tenach
[04:35] <philipballew> i can apt-get 1.1 i'm curious if though its still the same version it still has new features online
[04:36] <M0hi> you have downloaded the package right?
[04:37] <philipballew> if bu package you mean i did sudo apt-get install aircrack-ng then no
[04:38] <M0hi> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto#To%20Upgrade%20a%20Package
[04:38] <M0hi> yeah I know you downloaded the package separately
[04:38] <M0hi> but is it trusted?
[04:39] <M0hi> I prefer letting synaptic to upgrade from its trusted sites
[04:41] <philipballew> i trust compiling manually
[04:43] <philipballew> i just didnt see a make file
[04:43] <M0hi> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingEasyHowTo
[04:44] <M0hi> I believe in reading and doing so that it will be helpful in future =]
[04:44] <M0hi> philipballew: you have time to read it?
[04:44] <philipballew> i have all the time i need :)
[04:45] <M0hi> (:
[04:46] <philipballew> thanks! ill get on this
[04:47] <M0hi> philipballew: ping us and we will help if you need
[04:49] <philipballew> alright. i will be  on here as well, i try and help the people whenever needed to
[04:50] <M0hi> ;)
[04:55] <tenach> hiya M0hi
[04:56] <M0hi> I ll brb. going for a coffee
[05:56] <M0hi> hey tenach. what's up?
[06:10] <tenach> IAmNotThatGuy: not a whole lot. talking with some ladies who are keeping me up way too late, but i don't mind.
[06:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> hmmm! okay carryon ;)
[07:15] <truepurple> Do files being under /home provide them with some security they would not receive in a different partition under NTFS or something?
[07:16] <bioterror> what
[07:16] <truepurple> Please elaborate in that question
[07:16] <bioterror> I dont get that question
[07:18] <truepurple> For the purposes of keeping data private and protected from viruses (from window) and what not, does having say a word document with information in it under /home make it more secure then in a whole different partition using NTFS
[07:19] <truepurple> And I mean data private as in protected from remote hacking and what not
[07:20] <truepurple> bioterror: Understand me better now?
[07:20] <bioterror> yes
[07:21] <truepurple> Do you know the answer?
[07:21] <bioterror> the idea of having home on separate partition, or even drive is becouse of re installation
[07:22] <bioterror> it has actually nothing to do with security as you need to mount that partition to access it
[07:22] <bioterror> and NTFS file system does not support same kind of permissions like *nix filesystems
[07:25] <bioterror> if I had the drives, I would make mirrored /home ;)
[07:26] <truepurple> bioterror: But most of my important information, like saves and stuff, would not even be in /home
[07:26] <bioterror> where they are?
[07:26] <truepurple> bioterror: I have yet to set it up, but on a separate shared partition to share with windows for general data
[07:27] <bioterror> put that separate partition into fstab and make symlink to your home folder
[07:27] <bioterror> NEXT!
[07:27] <truepurple> So having it there, rather then at /home, cause me any kind of security trouble? I am having trouble interpreting your earlier words
[07:27] <bioterror> what security?
[07:28] <truepurple> Any kind of security that /home might provide
[07:28] <truepurple> Is there none?
[07:28] <bioterror> why /home gives you security trouble?
[07:28] <bioterror> can you explain it to me
[07:28] <truepurple> I didn't say "trouble"
[07:29] <truepurple> Are files more secure in /home then on NTFS elsewhere?
[07:29] <bioterror> secure from what?
[07:29] <truepurple> I already said what
[07:29] <bioterror> and it's than
[07:29] <truepurple> thank you
[07:29] <truepurple> I often mix those up
[07:29] <bioterror> then means time ;)
[07:30] <bioterror> nothing is secure unles you encrypt them
[07:30] <bioterror> your only security problem with Linux is that you run remote exploits
[07:30] <bioterror> like trojan horses
[07:31] <bioterror> and that requires root priviledges
[07:31] <bioterror> but you wont run them if you use only packages from Ubntu repositories
[07:31] <truepurple> So in short, files are just as secure on the independant NTFS partition as they are in /home, as the security comes from the OS, not the FS or location, right?
[07:31] <bioterror> your Linux installation is safe from what ever you have in your Windows
[07:32] <truepurple> I was told NTFS lacked the permission stuff found in linux, so I was worried that data there would be less secure from the likes of remote hacking and such
[07:32] <bioterror> if you're worried about that your computer get stolen or police officers takes your computer
[07:32] <bioterror> encrypted /home is secure
[07:33] <truepurple> REMOTE hacking I am talking about
[07:33] <bioterror> then it does not matter
[07:33] <truepurple> k
[07:33] <bioterror> your system should be pretty much in safe
[07:33] <bioterror> as long as you have complicated password with upper case letters and numbers
[07:33] <bioterror> and your username is not just first name
[07:34] <truepurple> Why is it important to have a username that is encryptic?
[07:34] <bioterror> and you have not enabled root password
[07:34] <truepurple> I would think password should be enough
[07:34] <bioterror> truepurple, becouse of bruteforce
[07:35] <truepurple> A good password makes a complex user name unnecessary, no?
[07:35] <truepurple> that a name of a program or what are you talking about?
[07:35] <truepurple> "bruteforce"
[07:36] <bioterror> I dont have my sshd logs anymore
[07:36] <bioterror> but if you leave your sshd open, you will see some attacks that takes hours
[07:38] <truepurple> Most of the time most people are not being attacked and would see nothing in this sshd, right?
[07:42] <truepurple> bioterror:
[07:52] <truepurple> bioterror: YOu still there?
[07:58] <truepurple> Anyone here?
[08:34] <stlsaint> truepurple: got a issue?
[08:35] <stlsaint> bioterror: hours?? psshhh...ive been attacked for weeks before
[08:35] <truepurple> stlsaint: Hi
[08:35] <stlsaint> truepurple: question about ssh or something?
[08:36] <truepurple> stlsaint: bioterror Was telling me there was a reason to use a more complex handle and not just password
[08:36] <truepurple> stlsaint: Can you confirm and elaborate or deny?
[08:36] <truepurple> handle=user name
[08:37] <stlsaint> truepurple: well in terms of a bruteforce attack a more complex username will be effective
[08:38] <stlsaint> truepurple: most attackers are gonna go with handle "root"
[08:39] <truepurple> How does it work, this brute force
[08:40] <truepurple> Like if your password is apple654, does it learn the first letter is a, then the second is p, then the third is p, then the person might guess apple, and go from there?
[08:42] <truepurple> stlsaint:
[08:42] <stlsaint> truepurple: brute force takes a password/username list and pretty much tries all possible combinations
[08:42] <stlsaint> based off the hash (from my understanding)
[08:42] <stlsaint> with a simple password and username it is not a matter of IF you will be hacked but WHEN
[08:43] <stlsaint> this attack can be drastically made faster if using a database table
[08:43] <truepurple> what is a database table? And I don't feel like that answered my question
[08:44] <truepurple> You mean it has a list of the most commonly used password/usernames and tries them, that is what the database table is?
[08:44] <truepurple> stlsaint:
[08:47] <stlsaint> truepurple: ok what specifically is it you are wanting to know
[08:47] <truepurple> I asked what I specifically wanted to know already
[08:47] <truepurple> Like if your password is apple654, does it learn the first letter is a, then the second is p, then the third is p, then the person might guess apple, and go from there?
[08:48] <stlsaint> yes
[08:48] <stlsaint> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack
[08:49] <stlsaint> although a person isnt sitting there guessing each one, they setup the computer with the hash and let it rip against username/password list
[08:50] <stlsaint> a database or table figures out all the possible combinations prior to the attack being made which makes it twice as fast (how it works with wifi hack as well)
[08:50] <truepurple> Yes I looked at that webpage, but it doesn't tell me that
[08:51] <truepurple> Does brute force solve each latter 1 by 1? Or is it all or nothing?
[08:51] <truepurple> I mean each character, 1 by 1
[08:51] <stlsaint> yes
[08:51] <stlsaint>  one by one, i said yes to that earlier
[08:52] <truepurple> Then why couldn't they use human logic to decipher from the part already figured out?
[08:53] <stlsaint> why would they need to when the computer does it for them?
[08:53] <truepurple> stlsaint: BTW sorry about that, I am very mentally tired
[08:53] <truepurple> You mean the program sees the a, p, p and then tries l, e because of that?
[08:53] <stlsaint> truepurple: are you just asking about a brute force attack or does this pertain to a more specific issue?
[08:54] <stlsaint> truepurple: no
[08:54] <truepurple> Well if I understand how this works, I can know how to device better passwords and usernames
[08:54] <stlsaint> the system will not guess on its own, unless told to which i have not used
[08:54] <stlsaint> truepurple: well are you talking about securing a server or something?
[08:54] <truepurple> No, just what to use for a username and password for ubuntu
[08:55] <truepurple> and other online stuff etc
[08:55] <stlsaint> on a laptop install?
[08:55] <truepurple> no, desktop, why would that matter
[08:55] <truepurple> because of wi-fi?
[08:56] <stlsaint> truepurple: i have a medium level password on my local install because i dont go installing programs from random locations, if dont compile it myself or install from repos than i dont install it
[08:57] <stlsaint> truepurple: that is the only real reason you would need to make a complex password is if you install random crap cause if a person gets physical access on your system than a password wont mean jack
[08:57] <truepurple> Well my main concern is remote hacking
[08:57] <stlsaint> truepurple: do you have any open ports on your desktop?
[08:58] <truepurple> I don't know, anyway the whole password permission thing is suppose to be linuxs main security feature AFAIK
[08:59] <stlsaint> password permissions?
[08:59] <truepurple> If this brute force thing can verify each character one at a time, then it could crack any password lickety split
[08:59] <stlsaint> truepurple: do you understand how ports and security work?
[09:00] <truepurple> You know where you have to enter a password to say, install something and so on, are you sure you've used ubuntu before that you dont know this...
[09:01] <stlsaint> truepurple: what you are speaking of is authentication not permission
[09:01] <truepurple> Your talking symantics, please don't, just because I don't know all the terminology...
[09:01] <stlsaint> well its the terminology that gets the correct answer or response
[09:02] <stlsaint> authentication yes i know and that is a good feature yes
[09:02] <truepurple> So why do you talk like the quality of the password for authentication doesn't matter?
[09:03] <stlsaint> that is out of personal use of linux
[09:03] <truepurple> I don't know what you mean by that
[09:04] <stlsaint> you can make your password as strong as possible which is recommended overall, i just wanted to give you a explanation of why i dont
[09:04] <stlsaint> cause you asked about brute force
[09:04] <stlsaint> and you said a remote hack
[09:04] <truepurple> There are 26 alphabit characters + another 26 for cap,  and 10 numbers. So 62 for each character (if it accepts the misc stuff, a bit higher, but still) So this brute force tries 62 times for the first character, then 62 times for the second, and so on, why doesn't this brute force system rule unstoppably?
[09:05] <truepurple> What against do you want to make that password as strong as possible?
[09:05] <stlsaint> truepurple: ^^ that is what i wanted to ask you? Why do you feel the need to make a complex password on a closed port system?
[09:06] <stlsaint> maybe this thread can help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=510812
[09:06] <truepurple> "you can make your password as strong as possible which is recommended overall" recommended only for open port systems?
[09:06] <stlsaint> ^^Security on Ubuntu-a very comprehensive explanation
[09:07] <stlsaint> truepurple: at the ubuntu instal and fedora for that matter they guage you on your password strength, which is why is say it is recommended to make a strong one
[09:08] <truepurple> But your saying password strength for authentication is immaterial on a closed port system?
[09:09] <stlsaint> truepurple: im saying do what you want, i was just offering a explanation of why i dont make a extreme complex password but that is not stopping you from doing one
[09:10] <truepurple> I asked you a question, not requested for any kind of permission
[09:10] <truepurple> Does password strength matter on a closed port system?
[09:11] <truepurple> stlsaint:
[09:11] <stlsaint> yes, just make a strong password to be safe
[09:11] <truepurple> What does it matter with?
[09:12] <stlsaint> truepurple: ok, here is all i have to say: if you are going to install from locations that are not specified within the ubuntu repository system then you need to set a strong password
[09:12] <stlsaint> truepurple: there is alot in security that i cannot explain in one time
[09:13] <stlsaint> truepurple: if you install a application that contains a trojan or keylogger than a strong password will be sent back to that attacker and they will have to open a port on your system to use as a backdoor
[09:14] <stlsaint> stay safe...dont install from untrusted locations and when opening ports use caution
[09:14] <truepurple> Lets back up to something else i keep on asking about but you havent really responded to, what makes you so sure that ubuntu and other password systems have ways of verifying 1 character at a time?
[09:15] <truepurple> Logically that seems very unlikely
[09:15] <truepurple> Because as I said before, then anyone could easily hack any security code very fast using that method
[09:15] <truepurple> If that was the case
[09:16] <stlsaint> thats because you are not understanding hashing
[09:17] <truepurple> Well tell me the flaw in my logic then, my logic is very simple here so pointing out its flaw/s should also be simple
[09:17] <stlsaint> your biggest flaw is not understanding how an attacker would even get the chance to perform a brute force
[09:18] <stlsaint> again i am trying to explain how but you keep reverting back to brute force programming, every brute force application will be different but screw that, just keep them out to begin with!!
[09:20] <bioterror> stlsaint, usually the brute force attack takes about few hours
[09:20] <truepurple> stlsaint: That wikipage said that the brute force method becomes exponentially harder with each increase in password length, if it could verify each character independantly, then it wouldn't get exponentially harder with each additional character in length
[09:20] <stlsaint> bioterror: yes thats if an attacker can even get close to you!
[09:20] <bioterror> actually bruteforce attack can be made worthless with knock
[09:21] <stlsaint> HELL brute force is COMPLETELY useless against key authentication!!!
[09:21] <bioterror> no need for denyhosts or anything like that
[09:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: One can attack your system if and only if you let him enter your machine. Like if you install an application from an untrusted zone, the owner of the application might have added some hacking codes which will work after the install(this time you will use your machine password and they will get it). If you dont install from un trusted places, then dont worry about it
[09:21] <truepurple> stlsaint: That would be good information to know much earlier in the conversation...
[09:21]  * stlsaint facepalms!!!!!!
[09:21] <bioterror> :D
[09:22]  * IAmNotThatGuy hugs stlsaint
[09:22] <stlsaint> truepurple: dude/chick whatever, i asked you what were you trying to do and you just said understand brute force
[09:22] <bioterror> with Linux you cant write to / without root permissions
[09:22] <bioterror> like sudo
[09:22] <bioterror> or with any *nix
[09:22] <bioterror> unless you mess your system with chown ;)
[09:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> lol
[09:22] <bioterror> that's what makes *nixes secure
[09:23] <bioterror> all the binaries and stuff like that are in a place which you cant modify
[09:23] <bioterror> you as a normal user
[09:23] <truepurple> Let me try this a different way, does it matter if I mix common words in my athentication password for the purposes of security?
[09:23] <stlsaint> truepurple: if you would have just told me you were looking for a secure way to operate a application i would have told you keys from the beginning
[09:23] <truepurple> Does that matter log on purposes?
[09:23] <stlsaint> truepurple: NO
[09:24] <truepurple> I mean logon to websites and stuff
[09:24] <truepurple> Sorry about not being clear
[09:24] <stlsaint> truepurple: that is the websites job to keep you secure, you have on control over say googles webmail, but they will always suggest making a strong password
[09:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> No, never use SUDO or something which asks your authentication from the untrusted instal
[09:25] <stlsaint> bioterror: all yours and mohis dude
[09:25] <truepurple> But does whether I use common words within a password (assuming they arent guessable as a whole) for webmail or linux authentication matter?
[09:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> see ya stlsaint
[09:26] <bioterror> njaeh
[09:26] <bioterror> I'm just peeping in
[09:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: so you are asking about ways to set effective strong password right?
[09:26] <bioterror> I'm out soon with my daughter
[09:26] <bioterror> and my mom, doing some wood works
[09:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> lol :P
[09:27] <truepurple> I am asking if I use a common word like apple, tree, cicuit etc within a password that also contains random characters, is that any more secure then a password containing only random characters
[09:27] <bioterror> is it?
[09:27] <bioterror> 4pPl3
[09:27] <truepurple> Assuming the common word has no personal meaning that one can guess at by knowing you
[09:27] <truepurple> no, apple
[09:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> see what bioterror told :D
[09:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> thats apple =]
[09:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> in a secured way
[09:28] <bioterror> actually
[09:28] <bioterror> you should use pincode + word
[09:28] <bioterror> for example
[09:28] <bioterror> 4 digits pincode before or after a word
[09:28] <bioterror> then you can even write your passwords up
[09:29] <bioterror> and it's still secure
[09:29] <truepurple> Is 3apple45g4 any more secure then 2ws35ddsdf?
[09:29] <truepurple> I mean any less secure
[09:29] <bioterror> they are as secure
[09:29] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: you know capatcha right?
[09:29] <truepurple> So common words don't jeopordize a passwords security, right?
[09:29] <bioterror> but 3AppL335g4 is more secure
[09:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> that is provided by Gmail to protect our login
[09:30] <bioterror> capital letters makes it more secure
[09:30] <truepurple> yeah, the "you are a human not a bot" system for signing in and up to things
[09:31] <truepurple> What about it?
[09:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> if they even use bruteforce, they cant try more than 3 times
[09:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> so it is secure
[09:32] <IAmNotThatGuy> bruteforce is by bot as it does 100 times faster than us. when we are supposed to enter capatcha, as it is dynamic, bruteforce fails. so your mail is safe
[09:32] <bioterror> my friend has for his server SecureID kind of token ;)
[09:32] <bioterror> actually, it was a usb dongle that needs to be inserted in :D
[09:32] <truepurple> If bruteforce can verify each character independantly, why would it even take a couple hours to crack something? Why not 5 minutes or something?
[09:32] <IAmNotThatGuy> when you take your machine, no one can use the authentication except from your physical keyboard(unless you share the desktop)
[09:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> so all security to you machine is in your hands
[09:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: what you want to know exactly? brute force or secured password??
[09:33] <bioterror> truepurple, think about that if I come to your house, I take my gentoo or arch usb stick with me and I can chroot into your system and change your root's password and even your users password ;)
[09:34] <truepurple> If a password is 10 characters long, and limited to letters and numbers,and brute force can verify each character independently as being correct or not, then brute force would need to only try 620 passwords or less, to break in
[09:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror: wait!
[09:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: what you want to know exactly? brute force or secured password??
[09:35] <bioterror> to be honest, I dont even need that stick, all I need is just choose that Safe Mode from GRUB ;)
[09:35] <truepurple> Well there is something I heard  about bruteforce that is inconsistant, and I wish to resolve this inconsistancy
[09:35] <truepurple> So please reply to what I asked about
[09:36] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: Let me clarify one thing first. Brute force is independant of your system. it is about your account in server. so do not compare with the system
[09:36] <truepurple> Is brute force able to verify each character independantly? and if so, how do you explain that inconsistancy? Also the inconsistancy of the wiki saying that longer passwords are exponentially harder to crack
[09:37] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: open google and type "eleph" and see what happens
[09:38] <truepurple> Ok Iam, but whatever it is for, do you believe brute force can verify each character independently?
[09:38] <IAmNotThatGuy> it will autofil as elephant. this is a data present in a table which it suggests. similarly, bruteforce has tables with this maching words. so it will check character by character
[09:38] <IAmNotThatGuy> for password, it verifies character by character
[09:38] <truepurple> So it can verify a password starts with F and then 5, but not know the rest of the password?
[09:39] <IAmNotThatGuy> when you send a password, the google mail also check character by character. Do you believe this?
[09:40] <truepurple> When you send a password, you send a whole password, if you leave a character off, the system won't tell you you ALMOST had the password, it just tells you its wrong, but you are saying something very different for brute force
[09:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> yeah but it check character by character right?
[09:41] <truepurple> I would assume
[09:41] <IAmNotThatGuy> the attack code will have a point which will help it know which letter got succeded
[09:41] <truepurple> Then why doesnt it take minutes to work? And what about what the wiki said about longer passwords being exponentially harder?
[09:42] <truepurple> minutes, hell seconds
[09:42] <IAmNotThatGuy> each time, it sends pass to server and checks
[09:42] <truepurple> 620 tries or less is nothing for any kind of modern system
[09:43] <IAmNotThatGuy> so how can that happen in minutes?
[09:43] <IAmNotThatGuy> capatcha
[09:43] <IAmNotThatGuy> that wont let you
[09:43] <truepurple> Not everything has a try limit chance
[09:44] <truepurple> Ok what about what wiki says about longer passwords being exponentially harder though?
[09:44] <IAmNotThatGuy> but it will communicate to server each time
[09:44] <IAmNotThatGuy> It is not about long passwords. its about mixing alphabets
[09:44] <truepurple> If it can verify each character independantly, it would be addition, not multiplication, difficulty/time wise
[09:45] <truepurple> "The key length used in the encryption determines the practical feasibility of performing a brute-force attack, with longer keys exponentially more difficult to crack than shorter ones."
[09:45] <IAmNotThatGuy> when it check for each words, then it should check for 10 years to find a password which starts with z and has zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[09:46] <truepurple> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack
[09:46] <truepurple> Are you saying that wiki is wrong?
[09:47] <IAmNotThatGuy> so what do you want to prove or do? I am telling that mixing aphabets is secure. if you give as welcomecommittee thats long enough. but not that secure than WeLcomecOmmiTtee
[09:47] <IAmNotThatGuy> and thats what I am trying to say
[09:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> I didnt say that wiki says wrong
[09:49] <truepurple> There is some inconsistancy between what you and the last person said, and what the wiki says about this, inconsistancies bug me, and when you can't even see the inconsistancy, that bugs me even more
[09:49] <bioterror> make yourself tin foil that, plug your computer off from internet and lock your door and never leave your house
[09:49] <truepurple> But this is getting to be too much work for a matter of curiosity, especially when I have some more important issues to deal with.
[09:49] <bioterror> and remember to pull your teeth off too ;)
[09:49] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror: LOL
[09:50] <bioterror> and remove battery from your cell phone!
[09:50] <bioterror> murdoch, arch enemy of MacGyver can listen your calls
[09:50] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: can you see the difference between welcomecommittee and WeLcomecOmmiTtee?????
[09:50] <truepurple> bioterror: Me: Inconsistancies bug me You:So be paranoid -> that reply was very inconsistant
[09:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror: quiet
[09:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: answer me
[09:51] <truepurple> IAmNotThatGuy: What is the question?
[09:52] <bioterror> Wed12:51 <+IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: can you see the difference between welcomecommittee and WeLcomecOmmiTtee?????
[09:52] <truepurple> I thought that was rhetorical, since the difference is obvious
[09:52] <IAmNotThatGuy> [15:20] <+IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: can you see the difference between welcomecommittee and WeLcomecOmmiTtee?????
[09:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> the second is more secured. do you believe that?
[09:53] <truepurple> Sure, why not
[09:53] <truepurple> What is your point?
[09:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> the length and mixing aplhabets makes it secured
[09:53] <truepurple> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz might be more secure then zzzzzz too
[09:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> got my point?
[09:53] <truepurple> So?
[09:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> so both are important
[09:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> and thats what I tried to say
[09:54] <truepurple> Ok... So...?
[09:54] <truepurple> I know that
[09:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> you have to sk the next question
[09:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> then what you want to know?
[09:54] <truepurple> I wrote it down, one moment
[09:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> which you already have known?
[09:55] <truepurple> Not what I was asking, but moving on
[09:55] <IAmNotThatGuy> k tell us what you know first of all
[09:55] <IAmNotThatGuy> if you dont have any other queries in particular
[09:55] <truepurple> I want to share save files and other things between ubuntu and win7
[09:56] <bioterror> Wed10:27*<+bioterror> put that separate partition into fstab and make symlink to your home folder
[09:56] <IAmNotThatGuy> why you want to do that?
[09:56] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror: quiet
[09:57] <truepurple> What is fstab?
[09:57] <bioterror> I had "ln -s /media/Windows/Documents & Settings/username/ linked to my /home/user/Desktop
[09:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> !fstab
[09:57] <ubot2> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
[09:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: ^
[09:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> now answer me why you wanted to do that truepurple
[09:57] <bioterror> becouse of dual boot
[09:58] <bioterror> linux can access your Windows files, but not vice versa
[09:58] <truepurple> Why not visa versa?
[09:58] <bioterror> you tell us, Windows boy ;)
[09:58] <IAmNotThatGuy> ask in M$ channels and if you find answer, then please provide that to us
[09:58] <IAmNotThatGuy> :)
[09:58] <IAmNotThatGuy> we are also asking the same questions
[09:59] <truepurple> So I guess I have to tell each program independently that I want to save it on the NTFS shared partition, rather then /home, only option, right? And if I fresh install ubuntu to update, it is very complex to save those settings for save locations?
[09:59] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror: wait
[09:59] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: answer me. why you want to do that?
[10:00] <truepurple> The answer should be so obvious and I find myself explaining this over and over, and the reason is immaterial really to how to get it done, but fine
[10:00] <NRWlion> hi there
[10:00] <bioterror> hi!
[10:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> why you want to do that? you can creata  separate NTFS partition in which you can save any documents and can access from a M$ machine
[10:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> why saving it in HOME?
[10:01] <truepurple> If I can not load saves from one to the other, whether game saves or wordpad saves or graphics saves or whatever, I have to recreate my efforts on each OS, effectively my dualboot system is two systems, rather then one
[10:01] <bioterror> IAmNotThatGuy, no point in that
[10:01] <truepurple> I am not trying to save it in home
[10:01] <bioterror> IAmNotThatGuy, correctly mounted windows partition does that job with symlinks
[10:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> why you want to save it in home?
[10:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: ^
[10:01] <truepurple> I DON'T!
[10:01] <bioterror> actually
[10:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> hmm! then you can save it in an NTFS partition right?
[10:02] <bioterror> I would symlink Documents folder of Windows account to linux system's Documents
[10:02] <truepurple> So I guess I have to tell each program independently that I want to save it on the NTFS shared partition, rather then /home, only option, right? And if I fresh install ubuntu
[10:02] <truepurple> IAmNotThatGuy: Exactly what I was talking about!
[10:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> please provide me some documents that will automatically get saved in home
[10:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> applications
[10:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> example/sample
[10:04] <truepurple> Don't most every program under linux save to home, that is why if you reinstall ubuntu fresh you keep all your saves
[10:04] <bioterror> I might save them into /tmp or even /var/tmp/
[10:04] <IAmNotThatGuy> lol
[10:04] <bioterror> depends how dangerous I feel myself at the moment
[10:04] <truepurple> That is the whole point of putting /home in a separate partition, right?
[10:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: so you want the applications you installed and not the documents
[10:05] <truepurple> Because /home has stuff like saves in it, right?
[10:05] <truepurple> IAmNotThatGuy: No, the saves etc.
[10:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> home is to save user saving documents and not the applications
[10:05] <IAmNotThatGuy> like desktop and other stuff
[10:06] <IAmNotThatGuy> if you save the documents in desktop, then it will be in /home
[10:06] <truepurple> So if a game called battle for wesnoth under ubuntu saves, those saves are not in /home? And if I were to fresh install ubuntu, I would lose them?
[10:07] <IAmNotThatGuy> the reason why we give separate /home is when our system gets crashed due to some plays, you can have the documents you saved in desktop.
[10:07] <truepurple> You lose most saves if you lose ubuntu OS?
[10:07] <IAmNotThatGuy> when you RE-INSTALl, you will lose if you dont have a separate /home
[10:07] <IAmNotThatGuy> thats the use
[10:07] <truepurple> So they all save to /home, right?! MAKE UP YOUR MIND PLEASE!
[10:07] <bioterror> truepurple, the files should be under ~/.config/ or ~/.something
[10:08] <truepurple> Do saves normally go to /home or not??????
[10:08] <IAmNotThatGuy> what kinda saves?
[10:08] <truepurple> ANY KIND!
[10:08] <IAmNotThatGuy> give example for that
[10:08] <truepurple> Saves means progress within any application
[10:09] <truepurple> I did already, battle for wesnoth
[10:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> a game right?
[10:09] <truepurple> yes
[10:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> what will you do by accessing it in M$ ?
[10:09] <truepurple> Or some word program, officeword or whatever
[10:09] <truepurple> Dont change the bloody topic please
[10:09] <bioterror> % ls .widelands                     .:15:02:35 on 11-07-20:.
[10:09] <bioterror> config  replays  save
[10:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> word or others can be sawed anywhere
[10:09] <truepurple> Those go to /home, right?
[10:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> and you can edit the config
[10:10]  * Puck` pokes IAmNotThatGuy
[10:10] <Puck`> I'm on here all the time
[10:10] <truepurple> but the default is /home, right?
[10:10]  * IAmNotThatGuy waves over Puck`
[10:10] <bioterror> truepurple, the default is ̃~/
[10:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: all word documents asks you where to save
[10:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> its only your games and other stuff which depends on where you install
[10:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> sup Puck` ?
[10:11] <truepurple> They install automatically where they are set to, they don't give you a option as to where to install
[10:11] <Puck`> all's cool and good
[10:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: you can alter the config if oyu know how to do that ;)
[10:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> and word document and others presentation docs can be saved anywhere
[10:12] <IAmNotThatGuy> not just in /home
[10:12] <truepurple> alter what config for what purpose
[10:12] <truepurple> But they default to /home, right???
[10:13] <bioterror> no
[10:13] <bioterror> your home folder is under /home
[10:13] <IAmNotThatGuy> lemme clarify you some point. just keep quiet until I say to talk. please do that for my sake
[10:13] <IAmNotThatGuy> truepurple: okay?
[10:13] <truepurple> fine
[10:13] <truepurple> just please be consistant with yourself
[10:13] <IAmNotThatGuy> 1) word documents can be saved anywhere
[10:14] <IAmNotThatGuy> 2) games will be installed in ubuntu directories. Yes, I do accept the config files will be saved in /home. But you cant use it in M$.
[10:15] <IAmNotThatGuy> 3) I do believe that all applications that runs in common for both M$ and Ubuntu askes/prompts you and asks where to save
[10:16] <IAmNotThatGuy> 4) /home is for people like me, who has some linux applications and needs those config files when my system crashes.(this can never be used with M$)
[10:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> 5) my last point is an example. Web browsers saves it to documents. but you can change the location you want it to save
[10:17] <truepurple> Saves can be used for both OS though AFAIK
[10:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> please clarify me what you want now
[10:17] <truepurple> And I just checked, and battle for wesnoth bafflyingly does not let you choose where the saves go
[10:18] <truepurple> Hell, I don't even know how to find out where the saves are
[10:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> how can you use that config in M$?
[10:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> wesnoth bafflyingly saves in M$
[10:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> just answer that to me
[10:19] <truepurple> I don't understand the quesiton
[10:19] <truepurple> question
[10:19] <truepurple> And I am talking about saves, not configs
[10:19] <IAmNotThatGuy> how can you use that wesnoth bafflyingly saves in M$?
[10:19] <IAmNotThatGuy> answer me
[10:19] <truepurple> That question looks like gibberish
[10:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> yeah! I am feeling the same for your question
[10:20] <truepurple> What the hell is a "M$" for example?
[10:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> microsoft
[10:20] <IAmNotThatGuy> MS
[10:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> we always try to avoid mentioning it
[10:21] <truepurple> If you don't understand what I am asking, just say you don't rather then string random words together and demand a answer as a way to say you don't understand me
[10:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay fine. I cant get you. wait for someone to answer you
[10:21] <IAmNotThatGuy> thank you
[10:22] <truepurple> How can I tell where "battle for wesnoth" a game, saves its files?
[10:22] <IAmNotThatGuy> Puck`: busy?
[10:23] <truepurple> IAmNotThatGuy: Do you understand that last question?
[10:24] <IAmNotThatGuy> goto that directory and find the .config file which is hidden and in that it will tell the saved path
[10:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> and I dont know where that directory is. just search about that application and find
[10:25] <truepurple> What directory? I have no idea where the game is installed even.
[10:25] <truepurple> I tried that, I typed in the name of the game and did a search
[10:25] <truepurple> Nothing came up
[10:25] <IAmNotThatGuy> search in google and find its readme
[10:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> and I am not supporting that game
[10:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> find the game channel and ask them this question
[10:26] <truepurple> Oh, the search function shows nothing to show its making any progress, after a time it came up
[10:29] <truepurple> Its a hidden file, right? that config?
[10:29] <Puck`> IAmNotThatGuy: at work, why you askin'? (:
[10:29] <truepurple> which means it wont show up with searches?
[10:29] <NRWlion> hi truepurple
[10:29] <truepurple> hi
[10:29] <NRWlion> i am following the conversation a bit now ... but i am not clear, what you wanna do
[10:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> Puck`: Just come fore some chats once in a while. Idling doesn't mean that you are here :P
[10:30] <truepurple> I am trying to set up saves and other files on a independant NTFS partition to share between ubuntu and windows
[10:30] <NRWlion> ok, in other words you are looking for a way to share documents between Linux and windows?
[10:31] <truepurple> documents and other things
[10:31] <truepurple> like saves
[10:31] <Puck`> IAmNotThatGuy: I'm chatting on other channels (:
[10:31] <Puck`> so I am here (:
[10:31] <NRWlion> ok, docs are not difficult
[10:31] <IAmNotThatGuy> but not in UBT right?
[10:32] <Puck`> once someone highlights my name, I'm paying attention
[10:32] <IAmNotThatGuy> I highlighted your name before 4 days Puck` :P
[10:32] <truepurple> But some other saves are, like battle for wesnoth for example, still trying to even figure out where its saves are going, it doesnt let me choose the location anyway
[10:32] <NRWlion> truepurple: what do you mean by saves? most windows games are not really compatible with linux
[10:32] <truepurple> Battle for wesnoth has native for both linux and windows
[10:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> please ask it in http://forums.wesnoth.org/
[10:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> they can help you finding it
[10:34] <Puck`> IAmNotThatGuy: you didn't, I would've seen that, irssi keeps track of them (:
[10:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> No I mentioned your name in -team
[10:34] <IAmNotThatGuy> not here
[10:34] <NRWlion> truepurple: have you tried to search the battle of wesnoth forums?
[10:35] <truepurple> Yeah but I am not just asking for that game
[10:36] <truepurple> I need a way that doesn't tax my sanity to not only have such a common save location, but have linux remember those save location settings after a fresh install
[10:36] <NRWlion> ok, for this game i guess we - as linux community - will not be very helpful but simple docs like *.docx or *.odt can be shared on a "normal" FAT32 Partition
[10:37] <NRWlion> truepurple: for questions regarding the games i would highly recommend to ask in the forums!
[10:37] <NRWlion> here you will not get an appropriate answer
[10:37] <truepurple> NRWlion: Or NTFS, right?
[10:38] <NRWlion> truepurple: i would go FAT32 to be shure
[10:38] <NRWlion> or you have a look at Samba Networking
[10:39] <NRWlion> truepurple: http://www.samba.org/
[10:39] <truepurple> Yeah I looked at that earlier, but I wasn't able to figure out what it was fore
[10:39] <truepurple> for
[10:40] <truepurple> and do you have any specific reason to go fat32, or is this idle parania?
[10:41] <truepurple> Anyway, I don't think fat32 supports a 2tb HDD
[10:41] <NRWlion> truepurple: NTFS is readable by linux but i have made better (more positive) experiences with FAT32 to change docs between Linux / Windows
[10:41] <NRWlion> btw http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/using_samba/ch01.html << this is a short description on what Samba is and what it does
[10:42] <truepurple> Please contrast one exp/possible outcome with another of the opposing FS
[10:43] <NRWlion> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/mounting-a-windows-xp-ntfs-partition-in-linux/ << another posibilty is to mount a NTFS into Linux
[10:43] <truepurple> NRWlion: samba looks like its for people with more then one PC, not one dual booted PC
[10:44] <NRWlion> truepurple: thats why i posted the pendrivelinux link
[10:44] <truepurple> So samba is not any good for what I need?
[10:44] <NRWlion> which allows you to mount a windows partition in your Linux Installation
[10:45] <NRWlion> truepurple: depends but if you have a dual-boot PC (which would have been a highly important information for us!) then the pendrivelinux link is more appropreate
[10:45] <truepurple> NRWlion: What do you call a "windows partition"?
[10:45] <NRWlion> Windows Partition == NTFS Partition
[10:49] <truepurple> Even if there are no windows files, right?
[10:50] <NRWlion> truepurple: the problem is, that windows is not able to read the default formats of linux
[10:50] <NRWlion> so you need a NTFS to access the files
[10:51] <truepurple> They call it a windows partition,  even if no windows files on it, right?
[10:53] <NRWlion> its called "Windows partition" cause windows needs NTFS
[10:54] <truepurple> EVen if no windows files?
[10:54] <NRWlion> truepurple: man are you reading what i am trying to explain?
[10:55] <truepurple> I just want a yes/no answer so I can be sure I understood you right
[10:55] <NRWlion> truepurple: ok lets to a little tour through windows. please let me ask some questions only answer with YES / NO!
[10:56] <truepurple> Not like you did...
[10:57] <NRWlion> for windows you have a partition where your system files are stored, this partition should be formated with NTFS, right?
[10:58] <NRWlion> truepurple: am i right? your system partition (think its C:\) is formated in NTFS, right?
[10:58] <truepurple> win7, yes
[10:59] <NRWlion> ok, i am having a win7 laptop in front of me too
[10:59] <NRWlion> lets do a little test
[10:59] <NRWlion> pls go to computer and click right on C:\
[10:59] <truepurple> I was not testing you, just wanted to make sure I understood you right
[10:59] <truepurple> I dont have a laptop
[11:00] <NRWlion> truepurple: i am trying to make you understand
[11:00] <NRWlion> but you are able to open a windows file explorer, arent you?
[11:00] <truepurple> I doubt I need one anyway
[11:00] <truepurple> from ubuntu?
[11:00] <NRWlion> no from win8
[11:00] <NRWlion> win7
[11:01] <truepurple> No, I am using ubuntu right now...
[11:02] <NRWlion> ok, lets try another angle: what is the default file system of ubuntu?
[11:02] <NRWlion> truepurple: pls do not think i am fooling you. i am just trying to make you understand
[11:03] <truepurple> What is the way/command to show hidden files?
[11:03] <truepurple> EXT 4
[11:03] <NRWlion> ok do you know the default file system of windows?
[11:04] <NRWlion> btw i dont know the command for hidden files :(
[11:04] <NRWlion> sorry
[11:05] <truepurple> Win7, NTFS, we have gone through this alreadyt
[11:06] <NRWlion> ok, and u can confirm that windows isnt able to access EXT4, right?
[11:06] <truepurple>  What directory does ~ stand for again?
[11:06] <truepurple> Not normally, no
[11:07] <truepurple> But there is a addon that allows at least EXT 3
[11:07] <NRWlion> you dont need an adon cause Linux is able to access NTFS!
[11:07] <NRWlion> so if you have a NTFS formatted HDD you simply need to mount it to linux
[11:08] <NRWlion> ;) u understand me now?
[11:09] <truepurple> I understood that from the beginning
[11:09] <truepurple> of our conversation anyway
[11:10] <NRWlion> (12:59:44) truepurple: I was not testing you, just wanted to make sure I understood you right <<< well that seems to be a lie if I watch this line there
[11:11] <NRWlion> sw0rdfish: hi there
[11:12] <sw0rdfish> hello
[11:13] <truepurple> NRWlion: Was that some elaborate way to throw my words back in my face?
[11:14] <NRWlion> truepurple: no offense i was just more than confused
[11:14] <truepurple> More then confused? Itchy as well?
[11:14] <NRWlion> truepurple: but if needed pls except my appoligies
[11:15] <truepurple> Well since you wasted my time with that elaborate bit just to throw my words in my face, would you help me now?
[11:16] <NRWlion> truepurple: tell me how
[11:16] <NRWlion> i have posted a link with explanations
[11:16] <truepurple> NTFS partitions, even empty of any windows files, are commonly called windows partitions?
[11:20]  * NRWlion nods
[11:21] <NRWlion> simply to the fact that NTFS is commonly know as a windows default file system
[11:21] <truepurple> If I mount a NTFS partition, do I have to remount it every time I load ubuntu?
[11:21] <NRWlion> truepurple: i am not quite sure
[11:21] <NRWlion> hang on a sec
[11:22] <coalwater> truepurple, you can add it to fstab
[11:23] <truepurple> I googled fstab, it says "for other uses has been superseded in recent years by automatic mounting." but ubuntu won't automatically mount NTFS partitions?
[11:23] <NRWlion> coalwater: are you able to provide a written step by step how to?
[11:25] <coalwater> truepurple, my coworker here is using natty and he has it working
[11:25] <truepurple> It didnt automount itself?
[11:27] <coalwater> what is the line u have in fstab
[11:28] <truepurple> I am assuming your not asking me that
[11:29] <coalwater> well actually i am
[11:29] <coalwater> u said i tried it and u added it to fstab but it didn't auto mount
[11:29] <coalwater> so what did u write in fstab
[11:30] <truepurple> No I asked "It didnt automount itself?" You said your coworker got it to work, did it automount itself or was fstab necessary?
[11:30] <NRWlion> truepurple: i can only answer this question with an example from my working station: if you plug in a usb HDD its connected automatically
[11:31] <truepurple> A NTFS usb HDD?
[11:31] <NRWlion> truepurple: affirmative
[11:32] <NRWlion> but i cant tell you how i did this cause i am not at home atm
[11:35] <coalwater> truepurple, if u want the drives to auto mount u need to place them on the fstab, otherwise it wont mount till u click it....
[11:38] <NRWlion> truepurple: maybe this would help: http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html << its about the basic functions of fstab
[11:39] <truepurple> If it automounts, I wouldn't need fstab!
[11:39] <NRWlion> as i said before i am not sure why this works with me. so i would go the safer way to work with fstab (my personal opinion)
[11:40] <coalwater> truepurple, what are u trying to do, because i dont think we understand each other
[11:43] <truepurple> Doesn't ubuntu automatically detect partitions and automatically mount them without me needing to mess around with fstab?
[11:45] <coalwater> no
[11:45] <coalwater> it detects them but it doesn't auto mount
[11:46] <coalwater> it only mounts system drives
[11:51] <truepurple> It automounts my usb flash drives though
[11:51] <truepurple> and my DVD drive
[11:51] <coalwater> yes
[11:52] <coalwater> if urs doesnt then check nautilus settings
[11:52] <coalwater> media tab
[11:53] <truepurple> So why not another partition?
[11:54] <coalwater> u can file a bug on launchpad if u dont like that, that's how ubuntu is designed
[11:54] <truepurple> k
[11:55] <coalwater> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=785263
[11:56]  * IAmNotThatGuy follows coalwater's links
[11:56] <truepurple> thanks
[11:57] <coalwater> this is the so called fstab method
[11:57] <coalwater> for drives
[12:00] <truepurple> coalwater: Does where you mount it, matter any?
[12:02] <NRWlion> once again personal opinion: i would mount it into /media to have a proper overview!
[15:14] <the_fool> Hello world, After some recent updates my trackpad switched the two finger click from being a middle mouse button to a right mouse click which has made browsing the web a pain (tabbing). I've been playing around with xinput, but haven't found a way to just change the two finger click. If someone could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.
[15:32] <the_fool> Anyone?
[16:04] <coalwater> sorry the_fool i don't really know
[16:35] <kristian-aalborg> yo all
[16:36] <kristian-aalborg> anyone went the "old desktop as media center" route?
[19:18] <the_fool> Hello world, After some recent updates my trackpad switched the two finger click from being a middle mouse button to a right mouse click which has made browsing the web a pain (tabbing). I've been playing around with xinput, but haven't found a way to just change the two finger click. If someone could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.
[21:01] <Captainkrtek> hello
[22:20] <Gabe_PR_2E151> Greetings Everybody
[22:22] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I have a simple question.... Hopefully one of you will be able to help me out.
[22:22] <nit-wit> howdy, what's up
[22:22] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I don't know why but my ubuntu system is not allowing me to change directories within my user account
[22:23] <Gabe_PR_2E151> for example if I would like to go to my Downloads folder in the terminal
[22:23] <charlie-tca> How are you trying to do it? What is the exact command you are using?
[22:24] <Gabe_PR_2E151> and I type cd /home/"username"/Downloads  all the output i get is : there is not such a directories
[22:24] <Gabe_PR_2E151> what i am typing is
[22:24] <Gabe_PR_2E151> cd /home/gabriel/Downloads
[22:25] <nit-wit> Gabe_PR_2E151, it is cd ~/Downloads
[22:25] <charlie-tca> um, open a terminal, type ls and hit enter (That is LS in small letters)
[22:25] <Gabe_PR_2E151> that worked
[22:25] <Gabe_PR_2E151> thanks
[22:25] <charlie-tca> That will show the directories in your home, and you can see if Downloads exists
[22:26] <bioterror> nit-wit, no! it's cd /h/s/Down<tab> ;)
[22:26] <nit-wit> bioterror,  `/=home, and user
[22:26] <nit-wit> *~/
[22:29] <Gabe_PR_2E151> that's funny
[22:30] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I just did the whole cd ~/Downloads
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> and it worked but the I tried to go the powerpanel-1.2-0 folder inside the Downloads folder and it says that there is not such a drectory
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> however when I do ls
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> it shows me the folder  i am trying to ge to
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> gabriel@Gabe-Linux:~/Downloads$ ls
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> adobeair (1).deb            powerpanel-1.2-0
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> adobeair.deb                powerpanel_1.2_amd64 (1).deb
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> dsassistant_Linux_1593.zip  powerpanel_1.2_amd64.deb
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> linux                       powerpanel_1.2_x86_64.tar.gz
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> NETGEAR_WNDR3700v2.cfg      system76-driver-2.6.5.deb
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> gabriel@Gabe-Linux:~/Downloads$ cd /powerpanel-1.2.-0
[22:31] <Gabe_PR_2E151> bash: cd: /powerpanel-1.2.-0: No such file or directory
[22:32] <Gabe_PR_2E151> gabriel@Gabe-Linux:~/Downloads$ cd ~/powerpanel-1.2-0
[22:32] <Gabe_PR_2E151> bash: cd: /home/gabriel/powerpanel-1.2-0: No such file or directory
[22:32] <Gabe_PR_2E151> gabriel@Gabe-Linux:~/Downloads$
[22:32] <Gabe_PR_2E151> any idea why that's happening
[22:32] <nit-wit> aDo you have a regular desktop? Are you trying to install something?
[22:33] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I have a regular ubuntu 11.04
[22:33] <nit-wit> so you're tring to install?
[22:33] <nit-wit> IE the cd
[22:33] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I am trying to install the power panel package that's in my Downloads folder
[22:34] <Gabe_PR_2E151> whats IE?
[22:34] <nit-wit> what ddid it download as  ie=for example
[22:34] <nit-wit> the original download was a tar?
[22:34] <Gabe_PR_2E151> it is a tar
[22:35] <nit-wit> Which kind
[22:35] <Gabe_PR_2E151> I don't know
[22:35] <Gabe_PR_2E151> let me check
[22:35] <Gabe_PR_2E151> powerpanel_1.2_x86_64.tar.gz
[22:36] <nit-wit> personally I'm not real good in this area, I rarely install this way, so others here will get you going, it helps to know the whole picture.:)
[22:37] <Gabe_PR_2E151> i also downloaded the .deb package for it
[22:37] <Gabe_PR_2E151> do you know how to do that?
[22:38] <nit-wit> Gabe_PR_2E151, I use gdebi for debs, just install it sudo apt-get install gdebi
[22:38] <nit-wit> I am pretty familiar with the cli but in some areas I don't bother when there are good gui's
[22:39] <Gabe_PR_2E151> ok
[22:39] <Gabe_PR_2E151> and now what
[22:39] <Gabe_PR_2E151> i already installed the gdebi
[22:39] <nit-wit> right click the deb and see if gdebi runs it
[22:40] <Gabe_PR_2E151> ok
[22:40] <Gabe_PR_2E151> one sec
[22:41] <nit-wit> I like gdebi as it will show missing dependencies
[22:52] <nit-wit> Gabe_PR_2E151, here is the tar instalation from the site as well. http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/user-manuals/PPL-1.2_InstallationGuide_TAR.pdf
[22:52] <nit-wit> here is the deb http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/user-manuals/PPL-1.2_InstallationGuide_Deb.pdf


[20:03] <chris_uk[m]> * Just tried the new 21.10 beta and managed to get Ardour working, booting from live USB. Had to select Jack to do so. I imported and played an MP3 file OK. The Ardour splash screen seems to stick at 'loading' and again at 'configuring audio and midi engine' stage  but if I click on it, it disappears and I can proceed. I assume this may be because I haven't installed it yet and the slowness of booting from a live USB.
[20:42] <Eickmeyer> chris_uk[m]: I'm pretty sure that's not a bug but a feature as the same behavior is in Harrison Mixbus (Ardour's downstream paid project). You can alwasy ask in #ardour:libera.chat


[07:32] <dholbach> it'd be nice if some of you showed up in #ubuntu-bugs - so people having questions for kernel bug triage have somebody to ask
[11:48] <dholbach> hey masters of the kernel!
[11:48] <dholbach> it'd be nice if some of you showed up in #ubuntu-bugs - so people having questions for kernel bug triage have somebody to ask
[04:31] <zul> heylo
[04:38] <dholbach> hey zul - happy hug day!
[04:41] <zul> heh has anonyone from the kernel team showed up?
[04:44] <dholbach> benc is there now


[12:59] <amigojapan> hi Emmanuel_Chanel
[13:43] <Emmanuel_Chanel> Hello! Long time no see!
[15:05] <amigojapan> Emmanuel_Chanel: yeah, sorry, I forgot to join this channel when I changed IRC clients
[15:11] <Emmanuel_Chanel> ok.
[15:58] <Emmanuel_Chanel> amigojapan: How do you like your IRC client, compared with xchat?


[00:03] <dtchen> asac: capture is tricky. PA sometimes does odd things with mixer controls. I've only read about it second- / third-hand (can't reproduce it locally due to limited hw).
[00:06] <fta> micahg, scim?
[00:06] <micahg> fta: no, uim
[00:06] <micahg> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uim
[00:07] <fta> too bad, scim has been crashing for months, if not years
[00:07] <fta> and scim is an uim
[00:07] <fta> a
[00:07] <micahg> been crashing firefox?
[00:07] <fta> no, just itself
[00:08] <micahg> I felt bad for the guy who ran around so much, so I tried to push it through
[00:20] <dtchen> asac: I can't see anything in the changes that would have killed it? When it happens again, please file a bug against pulseaudio and also use "apport-collect -p alsa-base #"
[00:51] <asac> dtchen: its really odd. started again with no real cause
[00:51] <asac> previousl reboots didnt help
[00:51] <asac> this time it helped :(
[00:51] <asac> linphone-3 if you want to try that ;)
[00:51] <asac> this time reboot helped - after it suddenly started working without reboot  that is ;)
[01:01] <fta> asac, [21:30] <fta> asac, the meta bug: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28287
[01:01] <dtchen> asac: would need amixer output at the least
[01:02] <dtchen> fta: your issue with ALSA apps routed through the pulse pcm plugin is really quite hairy. It turned out to be a perfect storm of linux + alsa-plugins.
[01:03] <dtchen> fta: and, for better or worse, it affects every single current Linux distribution released in the past 6 months.
[01:03] <fta> i thought i was alone, hence the lack of fixes for months :P
[01:03] <dtchen> also, I can't believe I spent an entire weekend chasing it. I'm going to sleep for a week or something.
[01:04] <asac> dtchen: what kind of amixer output?
[01:05] <asac> is that really useful? i clearly use the pulse plugin ;)
[01:05] <dtchen> asac: yes, I need to see what the ALSA driver thinks the hw mixer state is
[01:06] <dtchen> asac: (and your recording issue isn't tied to the bits above)
[01:06] <fta> dtchen, do you have a bug i can follow?
[01:07] <dtchen> fta: 485488
[01:07] <fta> lp?
[01:08] <fta> bug 485488
[01:09] <fta> good, that's the same
[01:09] <dtchen> the nasty part is that we could update every single ALSA app to use the new semantics with some tweaks
[01:10] <dtchen> but that, uh, isn't going to scale
[01:10] <dtchen> further, it breaks completely for non-HDA drivers
[01:10] <dtchen> so I'm going to have to patch linux and alsa-plugins both :(
[01:11] <fta> uh
[01:12] <fta> patching apps won't help those runing non free games
[01:12] <dtchen> that's precisely my point
[01:12] <dtchen> the original changes to sound/pci/hda/hda* were for latency adjustments to make PA work better
[01:13] <dtchen> well, they certainly achieved that part *as long as native PA backends* were used
[01:13] <dtchen> the pulse pcm plugin has to handle all legacy apps and is thus much more constrained
[01:38] <micahg> TB3 RC1 released
[08:13] <_Tsk_> asac ?
[08:13] <_Tsk_> what version of enigmail do you package these days ?
[08:14] <micahg> !info enigmail
[08:16] <_Tsk_> !info thunderbird
[08:17] <micahg> _Tsk_: we'll have to bump it for Lucid and TB3
[08:18] <_Tsk_> micahg:  Is enigmailed packed in PPA ?
[08:18] <micahg> _Tsk_: not right now, we might do that later in teh karmic cycle
[08:18] <_Tsk_> micahg:  thanks
[08:19] <micahg> _Tsk_: I meant Lucid cycle :)
[08:22] <micahg> asac: FYI FF3.6 and 3.7 branches don't have translations in .desktop yet
[08:47] <Unggnu> hi all
[08:48] <Unggnu> Does anyone know how to get the "undo closed tab" option in the context menu back in Firefox 3.6?
[08:48] <Unggnu> If I use the archive from mozilla.com I have one but not with the amd64 build from the repository
[09:28] <micahg> Unggnu: I don't know, I was wondering that myself
[09:28] <Unggnu> micahg, ok
[09:29] <micahg> Unggnu: are you using the daily build?
[09:29] <Unggnu> Someone the menu item is also missing in Firefox 3.6 in Gentoo
[09:29] <Unggnu> micahg, yes
[09:29] <micahg> ugh, another 64 bit issue
[09:29] <Unggnu> but it is definitely there in the tar-Archive from the MOzilla-HP
[09:29] <micahg> Unggnu: are you trying a 64 bit Mozilla build?
[09:29] <Unggnu> micahg, yes
[09:29] <micahg> Unggnu: and that has it?
[09:30] <Unggnu> the 64 Bit from the daily not, the 32 Bit from the HP-Archive has it
[09:30] <Unggnu> I couldn't use the 32 Bit because all my plugins are 64 Bit
[09:31] <micahg> Unggnu: yeah, I think it might be a 64 bit issue
[09:31] <Unggnu> probably
[09:32]  * micahg is checking for a Mozilla 64 bit build
[09:32] <Unggnu> They only have the 32 Bit one precompiled I guess
[09:35] <Unggnu> Thanks for testing. I have to go, ciao.
[12:36] <asac> fta: didnt we parse lsb-release at some point?
[12:36] <asac> in xulrunner build ?
[12:36] <asac> i want to add a CFLAGS just for lucid ;)
[12:40] <asac> fta: http://pastebin.com/f7f85bfc8
[12:40] <asac> that?
[12:54] <asac> dtchen: i have still no idea how to get any output from alsamixer
[12:54] <asac> it happens now again
[12:54] <asac> no input
[12:54] <asac> how can i hard reset everything?
[14:21] <fta> asac, i use lsb_release in chromium too, i needed to match the dev versions, lucid or sid, but without hardcoding those names
[14:21] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/327663/
[14:22] <asac> fta: what is the depends? just lsb-release?
[14:22] <asac> or also lsb-base?
[14:22] <armin76> asac: did you fix sparc, slacker?
[14:22] <fta> asac, just lsb-release
[14:23] <asac> http://pastebin.com/f1bcfe2c1
[14:23] <asac> fta: ^^
[14:23] <asac> sounds sound?
[14:23] <asac> oh ... also need to match for armel ;)
[14:24]  * armin76 feels ignored by asac
[14:24] <asac> and a typo
[14:24] <asac> ;)
[14:24] <asac> armin76: you gave me a patch to integrate ;)?
[14:25] <armin76> asac: there's no patch, its a hack you need to do at buildtime
[14:25] <asac> fta: http://pastebin.com/f1e6d9da1 that one
[14:25] <asac> armin76: what kind?
[14:25] <armin76> asac: i explained it on the bug! :(
[14:25] <armin76> now he'll say: what bug?
[14:26] <fta> asac, better, the 1st one should have targetted armel or arm, or armv7 or whatever the arch name is
[14:26] <armin76> armel
[14:26] <asac> armel
[14:26] <armin76> slow
[14:27] <asac> ok committed
[15:01] <pace_t_zulu_> is it known that chromium doesn't install on lucid?
[15:01] <asac> not to me :/
[15:01] <pace_t_zulu_> or perhaps i'm experiencing this issue on my system alone
[15:01] <asac> fta: ^^
[15:01] <asac> doesnt instlal? maybe ppas dont have lucid yet?
[15:01] <pace_t_zulu_> i can pastebin what i see
[15:01]  * asac no clue about lucid atm
[15:01] <pace_t_zulu_> they do
[15:01] <pace_t_zulu_> it's the ffmpeg
[15:02] <asac> ah
[15:02] <asac> wait for fta ... i would think he is already on lucid this time
[15:03] <pace_t_zulu_> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/327705
[15:03] <pace_t_zulu_> that's what happens at the console
[15:04] <pace_t_zulu_> ok... i'll check in for fta today
[15:10] <asac> hmm most likely the -ffmpeg wasnt copied to lucid repo
[15:10] <asac> pace_t_zulu: check if adding karmic repo helps
[15:11] <pace_t_zulu> will do
[15:11] <fta> just copied the karmic debs to lucid
[15:13] <pace_t_zulu> enabling the karmic repo solves it
[15:13] <pace_t_zulu> thanks asac
[15:15] <asac> np
[15:16] <asac> pace_t_zulu: remember to disable them again. fta now copied the ffmpeg stuff to lucid too ... so all should be fine for the future
[15:17] <pace_t_zulu> asac: ya ... glad it's worked out
[15:17] <pace_t_zulu> now someone installing alpha 1 won't have this problem ;)
[15:19] <pace_t_zulu> so it did just crash when i navigated to launchpad.net
[15:19] <pace_t_zulu> it being chromium
[15:20] <asac> right. thats ok i guess ;)
[15:20] <asac> hehe
[15:21] <pace_t_zulu> not reproducible... :?
[15:21] <pace_t_zulu> :/
[15:21] <pace_t_zulu> ok... so it's good to go
[15:25] <pace_t_zulu> thanks guys
[15:30] <asac> ok lets hope this sound mess is fixed on .32-rc8
[15:30]  * asac goes for it
[15:30] <asac> vanilla
[15:30] <asac> damn .. .all the US is lagging ;)
[15:30] <asac> everyone on holiday
[15:30] <asac> sigh
[15:54] <cyphermox> on hilday?
[15:54] <cyphermox> *holiday
[16:17] <asac> cyphermox: thanks giving preperations i guess ;)
[16:21] <cyphermox> asac, it's thanksgiving soon?
[16:21]  * cyphermox is clueless, partly because of being French Canadian, partly because of a bad cold :)
[16:32] <asac> i think its tomorrow and friday
[16:32] <asac> or something
[16:51] <kenvandine> fta, thx for adding me to the bot mail :)
[16:51] <kenvandine> asac, tomorrow is thanksgiving, but in the US most people get friday as a holiday too
[16:51] <kenvandine> technically not a holiday for us though, but most of us will be taking it off i am sure
[16:53] <asac> kk thx for demystifying ;)
[16:54] <kenvandine> kids don't have school today either, and my wife invited a bunch of neighbor kids over to occupy our's... i am happy to lock my office door and crank up the music :)
[16:54] <asac> kenvandine: enjoy ;)
[16:55] <asac> kenvandine: if you know how to debug alsa capture devices going through pulse plugin, i am here ;)
[16:56] <asac> (jus because of music ;))
[16:56] <kenvandine> haha... nope, i avoid pulse/alsa stuff :)
[16:58] <fta> kenvandine, np, i just noticed i need to merge the branches since i moved back to trunk
[16:59] <fta> done. let's see if that's enough
[17:01] <fta> asac, FIREFOX_3_6b4_RELEASE
[17:04] <asac> linphone-warning : Could not attach mixer to card: Invalid argument
[17:04] <asac> that doesnt sound good
[17:04] <asac> what does that mean ;)?
[17:04] <asac> is the mixer important :)
[17:04] <asac> ?
[17:07] <kenvandine> sounds like it is bypassing pulse completely and going for alsa
[17:08] <fta> asac, i was thinking.. your -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb should probably be in configure
[17:10] <asac> fta: it will get added to toolchain ... but we want something before doko comes back ;)
[17:11] <asac> from vac
[17:11] <asac> so this is the quick and dirty way ;)
[17:20] <fta> gasp, i broke it
[17:25] <fta> grrr, wtf
[17:30] <fta> bzr crash
[17:47] <asac> fta: do you know what dtchen meant by saying he wants output of amixer?
[17:47] <asac> for me that opens a curses app ;)
[17:49] <fta> for me, it spits text
[17:50] <fta> alsa-utils: /usr/bin/amixer
[17:50] <fta> asac, ^^
[17:54] <asac> fta: spits text?
[17:54] <asac> hmm
[17:54] <asac> oh
[17:54] <asac> ok
[18:08] <debfx> could the firefox and abrowser branding packages provide a symlink with the same name that points to their application icons?
[18:09] <debfx> the firefox kde integration helper app needs a constant name for the icon
[18:12] <asac> maybe
[18:12] <asac> not sure
[18:13] <asac> i thought that the installer is supposed to be removed if the browser package got installed
[18:13] <asac> at least thats what came out of UDS discussion ;)
[18:21] <debfx> i'm not talking about the installer
[18:21] <debfx> http://gitorious.org/firefox-kde-opensuse/firefox-kde-opensuse/trees/master/kmozillahelper
[18:22] <debfx> that's the helper app nedded for the kde integration from opensuse
[18:24] <debfx> it needs a static icon name for the download finished popups
[19:53] <fta> asac, something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/327941/
[21:01] <dtchen> asac: weekday USA east coast business hours are *really* bad for debugging on IRC; I pretty much have to use LP bug mail for ping-pong due to work restrictions
[21:02] <dtchen> asac: that said, I noticed the playback controls for 'Capture' on your usb headset is muted
[21:49] <BUGabundo> ola
[22:24] <BUGabundo> is it just me or is gwibber fonts *very* small on lucid?
[22:28] <fta> lol
[22:28] <fta> kenvandine, ^^
[22:29] <BUGabundo> I don't think you get what I'm saying
[22:29] <BUGabundo> its *really really* small
[22:29] <BUGabundo> like size 8
[22:29] <BUGabundo> and on a 13.3" laptop I can barelly read it :(
[22:29] <fta> it's the fix for http://jordanhall.co.uk/ubuntu-linux/gwibber-large-fonts-in-ubuntu-9.10-karmic-koala-issue/
[22:30] <BUGabundo> what fix? its worse
[22:30] <fta> it was too big before
[22:30] <BUGabundo> and now there isn't even an option to change it on gwibber
[22:30] <BUGabundo> not for me
[22:30] <BUGabundo> it was great
[22:30] <fta> let me upgrade
[22:30] <BUGabundo> now I can read it
[22:30] <BUGabundo> it has been like this for a week or so
[22:31] <BUGabundo> no.. 3 days
[22:31] <fta> Nov 23 21:49:09 <kenvandine>      fta, i want to see why ryan was doing the +2 thing
[22:31] <fta> Nov 23 21:57:30 <kenvandine>      ok... it was to compensate for a bug in an older webkit version
[22:32] <BUGabundo> kenvandine: why was the local preference to change size removed ??
[22:32] <fta> Nov 23 21:47:27 <kenvandine>      i have a fix for that
[22:32] <fta> Nov 23 21:47:35 <kenvandine>      including the preferences ui that lies
[22:32] <BUGabundo> not having one is worse...
[22:32] <BUGabundo> darn upgrades...
[22:32] <fta> Nov 23 21:49:34 <kenvandine>      but aside from that, the preferences UI says you can over-ride fonts
[22:32] <fta> Nov 23 21:49:36 <kenvandine>      but you can't
[22:33] <BUGabundo> I could
[22:33] <BUGabundo> I used too
[22:33] <BUGabundo> at least on older (karmic <alpha3)
[22:33] <fta> reorder that chronologically
[22:34] <fta> asac, SUNBIRD_1_0b1_RELEASE
[22:47] <micahg> asac: what do yostoneu think of setting up milestones for firefox so that I can mark upstream fix released on the proper mile