[12:04] <cbx33> nn all
[12:25] <bddebian> Heya gang
[12:26] <LaserJock> hi bddebian!
[12:28] <ajmitch> hi
[12:31] <bddebian> Hi LaserJock, ajmitch
[12:32] <LaserJock> darn, I wish doc writing gave karma, I'm almost to 5000
[12:32] <bddebian> Doh, I'd better get to work then.. ;-P
[12:33] <LaserJock> you better:-)
[12:33] <LaserJock> I still have 1000 to catch up to you though
[12:34] <bddebian> Is LP having problems?
[12:35] <LaserJock> seems to work for me
[12:36] <bddebian> Hmm
[12:37] <bddebian> So for this DhIconCache stuff we just need to add dh_iconcache to debian/rules and thats it?
[12:40] <LaserJock> that was my reading of the email anyway
[12:51] <bddebian> Hello jaldhar
[12:54] <Marticus> it seems my laptop doesn't like ubuntu, or the other way around
[12:55] <Marticus> it's now crashing upon downloading libmysqlclient during 'base-config new' process
[12:55] <Marticus> pretty colors and stuff
[01:07] <jaldhar> bddebian: belated hello.  It's hard to irc when you're trying to stop your kids from killing each other
[01:08] <bddebian> jaldhar: Heh, I know that feeling :-)
[03:25] <bddebian> Damn I hate this time of night
[03:25] <bddebian> crimsun: You up?
[03:26] <tseng> bddebian: woo
[03:26] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[03:26] <tseng> saw the phillies yesterday
[03:26] <bddebian> tseng: I'm sorry :-)
[03:26] <tseng> went by Valley Forge
[03:26] <bddebian> Should we still have 1c2 packages out there?
[03:30] <ajmitch> bddebian: yes
[03:30] <crimsun> bddebian: yes
[03:31] <ajmitch> c2 ->c2a was just a couple of symbols, not a whole new ABI
[03:34] <bddebian> Hmm, why the hell does libtyvis1-dev depend libtyvis1 then instead of libtyvis1c2?
[03:34] <bddebian> Stupid shlibs
[03:36] <lifeless> ajmitch: if symbols are broken, it should change :)
[03:36] <ajmitch> lifeless: sure, but only a select few libraries were affected
[03:36] <lifeless> ajmitch: and all local builds on all users machines ?
[03:37] <bddebian> Can I get away with a simple rebuild?
[03:37] <ajmitch> I don't know the details - it was in the mail about the libstdc++ allocator change
[03:37] <lifeless> what I'm saying is - symbol borkage is a qualitative change not a quantitative change
[03:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: I don't know, you should check :)
[03:38] <ajmitch> lifeless: yes, and doko generated a list of libraries that used those two symbols in any way
[03:38] <ajmitch> http://lwn.net/Articles/162102/
[03:38] <ajmitch> I trust him more than my explanations :)
[03:40] <bddebian> Hmm, libwarped0-dev is b0rked too
[03:40] <bddebian> Grr
[03:41] <bddebian> Hmm, mpich is in main..  ajmitch, wanna fix that for me? :-)
[03:42] <lifeless> ajmitch: right, so like I thought, local builds are fuck-fucked
[03:42] <ajmitch> bddebian: why is it broken?
[03:42] <lifeless> we gotta find better ways to manage this
[03:43] <bddebian> ajmitch: Dunno, it's main so I didn't touch it
[03:44] <bddebian> ajmitch: want me to take a look at it?
[03:44] <ajmitch> bddebian: explain what needs fixed first
[03:44] <bddebian> It's uninstallable
[03:44] <ajmitch> which part?
[03:45] <bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/devel/mpich$ sudo apt-get install mpich
[03:45] <bddebian> Reading package lists... Done
[03:45] <bddebian> Building dependency tree... Done
[03:45] <bddebian> Package mpich is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[03:45] <bddebian> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[03:45] <bddebian> is only available from another source
[03:45] <bddebian> E: Package mpich has no installation candidate
[03:45] <ajmitch> uh
[03:45] <ajmitch> that's not saying it's uninstallable
[03:45] <bddebian> It's not?
[03:45] <ajmitch> that says there's no mpich binary package
[03:45] <bddebian> Which makes it uninstallable :-)
[03:45] <ajmitch> but something else refers to it
[03:46] <Toadstool> g'night motus :)
[03:46] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah, libwarped0-dev
[03:46] <ajmitch> ie, mpich itself is *not* broken
[03:48] <ajmitch> fwiw, there's a much newer upstream version in debian
[03:48] <ajmitch> that has correct dependencies
[03:49] <bddebian> So get it :-)
[03:49] <ajmitch> why are you telling me to? you're the one fixing it
[03:52] <bddebian> Are you talking about tyvis or mpich?
[03:53] <ajmitch> mpich
[03:53] <ajmitch> or tyvis
[03:53] <ajmitch> whichever you're working on
[03:53] <bddebian> tyvis -> build-dep libwarped0-dev -> build-dep mpich
[03:54] <ajmitch> so fix warped
[03:54] <bddebian> mpich is a main package
[03:54] <ajmitch> I just told you, mpich is *not* broken
[03:54] <ajmitch> any more than x.org being broken because stuff still build-depends on xlibs-dev
[03:55] <bddebian> WTF are you talking about?
[03:56] <Lathiat> i think hes saying that
[03:56] <Lathiat> libwarped0-dev should not b-d on mpich
[03:56] <Lathiat> ?
[03:56] <ajmitch> warped is broken, ok? I said that there's a newer version in debian with correct {build-,}depends
[03:57] <ajmitch> mpich was split into binary & library packages
[03:59] <bddebian> OK, so what is the mpich binary?
[03:59] <ajmitch> apt-cache showsrc mpich
[03:59] <ajmitch> Binary: libmpich1.0c2, libmpich1.0-dev, mpi-doc, libmpich-mpd1.0c2, libmpich-shmem1.0-dev, mpich-shmem-bin, libmpich-mpd1.0-dev, mpe-source, mpich-bin, mpich-mpd-bin, libmpich-shmem1.0c2
[03:59] <bddebian> Ah, OK
[04:06] <bddebian> Hmm, the newer warped would be a UVF exception
[04:06] <ajmitch> yes, I said it was a new upstream
[04:07] <bddebian> lamez0r
[04:09] <bddebian> ajmitch: You know anything about the dh_iconcache thing?
[04:10] <ajmitch> no
[04:18] <bddebian> Well at least ajmitch still loves me :-)
[04:19] <ajmitch> sure..
[04:25] <bddebian> Hey LaserJock (Mr Science Team :-) ) You need to get the newer warped package from Debian :-)
[04:26] <LaserJock> yeah, just reading your bug eail
[04:26] <LaserJock> email even
[04:26] <Kyral> hey bddebian (Mr. HURD) :P
[04:26] <bddebian> Kyral: :-)
[04:26] <LaserJock> I checked into that bug like a month ago
[04:26] <Kyral> and I'm Mr.ArchLinux ATM lol
[04:27] <LaserJock> bddebian: so a sync of libwarped would fix the problem?
[04:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: It's a start.  Then need to try a rebuild of tyvis
[04:28] <bddebian> Kyral: ArchLinux?
[04:28] <Kyral> yah
[04:28] <Kyral> I'm giving it a whirl until Dapper+1 opens :P
[04:28] <LaserJock> bddebian: ok, I'll try to look at that after I finish the packaging guide tonight
[04:29] <Kyral> ...there is a Hong Kong LoCoTeam right....
[04:29] <bddebian> LaserJock: Well it would be a UVF exception :-(
[04:29] <LaserJock> no problemo ;-)
[04:31] <LaserJock> I would think fixing some unmet deps/FTBFS bugs would warrant a UVF exception.
[04:32] <LaserJock> hmm, and I still need to fakesync gausssum :/
[04:32] <crimsun> syncs are purportedly working again
[04:32] <LaserJock> yeah?
[04:33] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if old syncs are going to be proccessed
[04:33] <LaserJock> mine was from Feb.  I'm going to have to restart my computer soon
[04:39] <LaserJock> I'll be so happy when I can wipe this install and start over.
[04:39] <bddebian> Heh
[04:40] <VoX> i could be wrong, but i think the ubuntu-artwork package for amd64 is having issues
[04:40] <VoX> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11650
[04:44] <LaserJock> I just can't figure out how it take my computer less than a day to fill 756M of RAM and 486M of swap
[04:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: is that all?
[04:45] <LaserJock> yeah, but I haven't done much of anything with the computer
[04:46] <ajmitch> X & firefox are probably the top 2 reported users of ram
[04:46] <ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:    3266376     780236
[04:46] <LaserJock> X is taking 363M right now
[04:46] <ajmitch> some of that is misreported by top
[04:47] <Lathiat> run Xrestop
[04:48] <LaserJock> Lathiat: do I need to install that? I don't find it
[04:49] <crimsun>   xrestop |      0.3-3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
[04:49] <LaserJock> k, I'll install it in a sec. I'm dist-upgrading
[04:50] <LaserJock> last night my computer ground to a halt after ~ 6 hrs of working
[04:50] <ajmitch> that's bad
[04:50] <LaserJock> all the RAM was used and it was swapping like crazy
[04:50] <na7e> hi
[04:50] <ajmitch> and my laptop runs just fine with only 1GB RAM :)
[04:50] <ajmitch> hello
[04:51] <ajmitch> by 'fine', I mean like this:
[04:51] <ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:     906028     119064
[04:51] <ajmitch> Swap:      1048568     499172     549396
[04:51] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, it started after one of the kernel upgrades in Jan. I think
[04:51] <ajmitch> of course about 500MB of that is firefox
[04:52] <VoX> ff is such a resource whore
[04:52] <LaserJock> I'm not running anything but synaptic and a terminal at this point
[04:54] <LaserJock> I was just finishing doc writing for the night last night when it started freezing up
[04:55] <LaserJock> thank goodness I had just committed
[04:56] <Lathiat> swapping seems to take 100% priority over everything else
[04:56] <Lathiat> which is a bit of a bitch
[05:02] <LaserJock> Lathiat: do I want pxm mem ?
[05:05] <LaserJock> I'm guess this might be the problem:
[05:05] <LaserJock> res-base Wins  GCs Fnts Pxms Misc   Pxm mem  Other   Total   PID Identifier
[05:05] <LaserJock> 2200000    14   18    0 6689    9   668800K    984B 668800K  4954 sensors-applet
[05:05] <LaserJock> 1800000    32  131    0  748   35    74075K      4K  74080K  4954 wnck-applet
[05:08] <LaserJock> maybe I will just not run the sensors applet
[05:13] <LaserJock> Lathiat: if that works, I'll owe you a drink ;-)
[05:19] <Lathiat> :)
[05:19] <Lathiat> what is the sensors applet?
[05:19] <Lathiat> and yeh thats pixel map memory
[05:19] <Lathiat> so that means the sensors applet is leaking pixmaps
[05:20] <Lathiat> and is why your running out of rma
[05:20] <Lathiat> :)
[05:20] <LaserJock> that is just the temperature sensor applet I have
[05:27] <LaserJock> Lathiat: you da man!!!
[05:27] <Lathiat> :)
[05:57] <bddebian> Are bitmaps OK for icon files?
[06:01] <Se7h> not realy, too big
[06:01] <Se7h> ..i guess
[06:02] <LaserJock> are .xpm bitmaps?
[06:03] <bddebian> Dunno, xboard only has .bm files afaict :-(
[06:10] <bddebian> Is there a "generic" icon file in /usr/share/pixmap to use for apps that don't have icon files?
[06:11] <Se7h> maybe a a black white paper
[06:11] <Se7h> lol
[06:11] <crimsun> that question was asked in the hoary dev cycle, and the conclusion is that there isn't one and that upstream should be pestered to include an appropriate icon
[06:14] <Se7h> i wouldn't have said better
[06:15] <Se7h> btw, question
[06:16] <Se7h> can a package be release first for ubuntu then for debian?
[06:17] <Gloubiboulga> Se7h, you mean, can we have a package in ubuntu which is not in debian?
[06:18] <Gloubiboulga> hi btw
[06:18] <Se7h> well, that i guess we can
[06:18] <Se7h> hi
[06:18] <Se7h> but imagina a package being release into ubuntu with version 0ubuntu1
[06:18] <Se7h> what would be debians version ?
-1
[06:19] <Gloubiboulga> and the debian package will come in ubuntu during the merge/sync process of the next release I think
[06:19] <Se7h> humm..ok
[06:19] <Se7h> ty :)
[06:20] <Gloubiboulga> no prob :)
[06:22] <Se7h> ok that sucked real hard
[06:25] <bddebian> crimsun: Ah OK, thx.  So any point in creating a .desktop file for a package with no icon?
[06:25] <crimsun> bddebian: I think so, particularly if there was no correct menu entry prior
[06:25] <bddebian> OK
[06:27] <Se7h> i asked that about version, cus im packaging something for ubuntu that is being package to debian also, and i didn't want to upload nothing without being in debian first
[06:28] <crimsun> just beware of the orig.tar.gz snags.
[06:29] <Se7h> yes, thats what i thought about
[06:29] <Se7h> o contacted him
[06:31] <Se7h> i hadn't the time to check the diff en dsc files he sent, but i just want to compare where he's planning to install nad stuff...
[06:31] <Se7h> *and
[06:31] <Se7h> xish...i need to rest,. Slepd 5h and its 5.31am already
[06:31] <Se7h> cya guys...later
[06:32] <Gloubiboulga> good night Se7h
[06:35] <bddebian> Yeah, better get my old arse to bed too gnight folks
[06:35] <ajmitch> night bddebian
[06:36] <bddebian> Gnight sweetpea ;-P
[07:53] <Gloubiboulga> hi Hobbsee
[07:53] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[07:53] <Hobbsee> guess i could ask for programming help here, hey..
[07:53] <ajmitch> sure
[07:53] <ajmitch> if you fix my code :)
[07:54] <Hobbsee> hehe
[07:55] <ajmitch> what's the problem?
[07:55] <Hobbsee> http://online.mq.edu.au/pub/COMP155/assignments/ass2/assignment2.html
[07:55] <Hobbsee> section A - characters are read from a file
[07:56] <Hobbsee> the problem is, what should the condition on that loop be?  ideally, it should be "while there is something still in the file, do this"
[07:56] <Hobbsee> i thought i'd had something similar written down, but i cant find it in my notes at all...
[07:59] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: any idea?
[08:01] <ajmitch> sorry, got distracted :)
[08:01] <ajmitch> like while(!EOF) { ... } ?
[08:01] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure
[08:02] <Hobbsee> might work
[08:02] <ajmitch> eww, inflicting c++ on 1st year students
[08:02] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:03] <ajmitch> or you do while( (n=read(fd, buffer, 1) ) { ... }
[08:03] <ajmitch> or similar
[08:03] <ajmitch> though it's c++
[08:04] <ajmitch> so I don't know if you get marked down for C-isms :)
[08:06] <Hobbsee> hmmm...
[08:06] <Hobbsee> first one doesnt seem to work, or i have the syntax wrong
[08:06] <Hobbsee> the latter, i suspect
[08:08] <zakame> hi all
[08:08] <zakame> ToadZzZztool: ping
[08:09] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: brilliant!  thanks!
[08:10] <Hobbsee> ajmitch:     "while (! myfile.eof() )" is the syntax
[08:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: great, now write my raytracer for me ;)
[08:16] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:52] <allee> ajmitch: was there already a talk (with doko?) about python2.3 mods in main to still support third party software that still depends on 2.3 (e.g. bug 37625 uninstallable and FTBFS)
[09:20] <nomed> hi all
[09:20] <nomed> one question ..
[09:20] <nomed> i see there are many pkges that Suggests msttcorefonts ...
[09:21] <nomed> that it doesn't seem available .. is this to consider a bug ?
[09:21] <Tm_T> nope
[09:22] <Tm_T> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/x11/msttcorefonts
[11:01] <pef> hello
[11:01] <pef> what's the command to refresh KDE/gnome menu entries with files present in /usr/share/applications/ ?
[11:15] <Toadstool> hi here
[11:25] <zakame> hi al
[11:25] <zakame> l
[11:26] <Toadstool> heya zakame
[11:26] <Toadstool> pong
[11:26] <Toadstool> ;)
[11:26] <zakame> heya Toadstool ! :)
[11:27] <zakame> Toadstool: just to let you know, it would perhaps be better to set "Fix Committed" only if the updated package has hit the archive, "Fix Released" if it builds on all archs and is installed
[11:27] <Toadstool> hum ok
[11:36] <zakame> malone 38009 can anyone check the correctness of the latest patch?
[11:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38009 in resolvconf "Breezy -> Dapper transition needs proper /etc/resolvconf/run handling" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38009
[01:58] <ajmitch> hi
[02:00] <lifeless> ho
[02:41] <MrFaber> hi all
[02:41] <MrFaber> The loop-aes-gui is back again :)
[02:42] <MrFaber> -i+y
[02:43] <MrFaber> Who can fix the loop-aes-source package? There is already a bug report and a possible solution since some monthes.
[02:43] <MrFaber> I always have to use the debian sid loop-aes-source package to use it
[02:44] <lifeless> bug 30230 ?
[02:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30230
[02:44] <MrFaber> yes
[02:45] <MrFaber> Just an update to debian sid package would fix it
[02:45] <MrFaber> But I think that this isn't the main bug since some modules like nvidia or fglrx shows the same error
[02:45] <lifeless> whats different in sid ?
[02:46] <MrFaber> lifeless: don't know but it works in dapper :)
[02:46] <MrFaber> I am no expert
[02:53] <zul> heylo
[02:54] <Hobbsee> hi
[03:27] <dholbach> anybody want to pick up bug 32900?
[03:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32900 in gimp-gap "gimp-gap crashes when duplicating frame" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32900
[03:39] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:39] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[03:39] <bddebian> Hello Hobbsee
[03:40] <bddebian> dholbach: ping?
[03:40] <dholbach> bddebian: pong
[03:40] <bddebian> dholbach: The dh_iconcache thing.  All we have to do is add dh_iconcache to debian/rules install: ?
[03:41] <dholbach> yes
[03:41] <bddebian> OK, thx
[03:45] <jaldhar> hmm haven't seen minghua around for a couple of days
[04:05] <dolson> dholbach: good evening :) is it normal that dssi still isn't in dapper?
[04:06] <dholbach> hey dolson
[04:06] <dholbach> "normal"??
[04:06] <dolson> well.. I don't know the word
[04:06] <dholbach> the sync tool has just been fixed again
[04:06] <dholbach> i'll remind elmo
[04:06] <dholbach> just = yesterday
[04:09] <dolson> oh ok cool. :) I didn't see some stuff get in yet so that's why I was wondering if it would make it, such as om
[04:16] <dholbach> i just asked elmo again
[04:16] <dholbach> don't worry, it will be done
[04:17] <LaserJock> dholbach: do you know what the current status is of all those sync requests from long ago?
[04:18] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:18] <LaserJock> morning bddebian
[04:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: no idea
[04:18] <bddebian> Oohh, I'm a BugSquad member, thanks dholbach :-)
[04:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: it might be best to do as the announce mail said
[04:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: pitti has a script on people.u.c somewhere to make the job easier
[04:19] <dholbach> bddebian: de rien :)
[04:21] <dolson> argh. I want to cross-compile my app for Win32, but I can't seem to figure out what to do with mingw32
[04:22] <LaserJock> dholbach: ah, thanks, I hadn't had a chance to read my email. I spent all day yesterday (about 16 hrs) working on the packaging guide
[04:22] <dholbach> wow
[04:22] <dholbach> WOW!
[04:24] <LaserJock> well, I think it is done for now
[04:25] <LaserJock> I pulled probably another 10hrs the day before
[04:25] <LaserJock> my wife is about to kill me :-)
[04:26] <dolson> you better kill her first! we need that doc!
[04:26] <bddebian> hehe
[04:26] <dolson> ( that was a joke. I do not advocate the killing of wives )
[04:26] <azeem> oh, /me puts down the telephone again
[04:27] <LaserJock> well, dholbach uploaded the semi-final version so everyone can take a gander in gnome-help or doc.ubuntu.com
[04:28] <dolson> azeem: oh gee, you're in here too, huh?
[04:28] <dolson> LaserJock:  I've already pointed a few people to it in gnome-help :D
[04:29] <LaserJock> dolson: great
[04:29] <azeem> dolson: ;)
[04:29] <LaserJock> I really think that gnome-help is a hidden treasure now with the server guide and great desktop guide
[04:30] <LaserJock> ok, I gotta go again. I've got to give a prospective grad student a tour around campus and the department :-)
[04:30] <bddebian> Later LaserJock
[04:30] <LaserJock> bbl
[04:31] <dolson> a friend of mine installed Ubuntu, and he was impressed that everything worked, even his Broadcom wireless. I recommended him to try Dapper. a long time later, he messaged me from Windows, and had almost gave up on Ubuntu, but then I saw that new bcm driver and got him to blacklist it and he's happy again. that should be in that gnome-help stuff :)
[04:31] <azeem> what does that have to do with gnome?
[04:31] <dolson> what does making deb packages have to do with gnome?
[04:32] <lifeless> dolson: I think you mean 'in the help system', not 'in the gnome-help stuff
[04:32] <azeem> I probably misparsed "that gnome-help stuff"
[04:32] <lifeless> dolson: after all, its relevant to kubuntu and xubuntu too
[04:33] <azeem> and I didn't follow the discussion thoroughly :)
[04:33] <dolson> I was saying gnome-help because that's what LaserJock said a couple minutes ago. I don't know where his doc and the desktop guide are if not in gnome-help as he said
[04:33] <dolson> I'm not familiar with what packages or whathaveyou docs reside in
[04:33] <lifeless> I'm not sure that gnome-help is the right place for them :)
[04:34] <azeem> lifeless: well, if you decide to install the packaging guide, why not have it register in there?
[04:35] <lifeless> azeem: register yes.
[04:35] <dolson> AFAIK, the packaging guide is installed by default. and there is no package called gnome-help, so I don't know what he meant. but whatever he meant, is what I meant
[04:35] <lifeless> be gnome-specific? no
[04:35] <azeem> right
[04:35] <azeem> dolson: are you sure it's installed by default?
[04:35] <azeem> doesn't sound useful to regular users
[04:35] <azeem> dolson: yelp provides gnome-help I think
[04:36] <dolson> well I didn't choose to install it, but it's there
[04:38] <dolson> if I go to System > Help > System Documentation, I get this: http://aslan.homelinux.com/dana/images/helptopics.png
[04:44] <azeem> I see
[05:08] <zakame> hi MOTUs!
[05:10] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[05:10] <zakame> hi bddebian! :D
[05:27] <Marticus> well
[05:29] <Marticus> I finally got the installation to finish
[05:29] <Marticus> I think either the powernow daemon or the apm daemon was causing the system to crash
[05:43] <truz24> File browser search needs an option added to the right click menu - "open location containing file"
[05:44] <truz24> I'd do it myself if there werent' so much overhead getting the dev environment setup
[06:05] <FunnyLookinHat> How soon will the new nvidia drivers (posted today) be put into Ubuntu repos?
[06:06] <LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: they went through dapper-changes already?
[06:06] <hub> do they provide source code?
[06:06] <LaserJock> lol
[06:07] <FunnyLookinHat> I just saw they got posted on the nvidia ftp site.  Version 8756 for 64 and 32 bit
[06:07] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: nothing for PowerPC?
[06:07] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, doubtful..  :-/
[06:07] <FunnyLookinHat> oh wait
[06:07] <FunnyLookinHat> yes, they have for ppc
[06:07] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
[06:07] <jsgotangco> ahh its there right
[06:08] <zakame> lol
[06:08] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah, pbuilder/ vs pbuilerrc . gets me all the time as well
[06:09] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: where?
[06:09] <jsgotangco> ok pbuilderrc doesn't look like anything in your example, i will assume the lines in the guide are the ones i should add/edit
[06:09] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, good question.  I'm searching the FTP site now.  All I read was in #nvidia "<KraMer> Hey everybody, new linux drivers (8756) are on nvidia ftp site now (download.nvidia.com).  32 and 64 bit.
 They're not listed on the nvidia web site yet."
[06:09] <FunnyLookinHat> Sorry for spam.
[06:11] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: they don't
[06:11] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: APTCONFDIR is empty on mine
[06:12] <jsgotangco> nvidia? good call
[06:12] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: on original one, right?
[06:12] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: yup, i'm assuming the samples you have provided are to be edited on the original file
[06:13] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: bear with me step by step if you got time
[06:13] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: Those are the lines in the pbuilderrc file that (may or may not) need to be changed to suit the distro you want
[06:13] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: OTHERMIRROR is commented too...
[06:14] <LaserJock> right
[06:14] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: yes but my point on this sweep is doing it with some knowledge
[06:14] <LaserJock> sure
[06:14] <jsgotangco> hence i am following your code snippets
[06:15] <LaserJock> is it unclear what you are supposed to do with those lines?
[06:16] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86
[06:16] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, I see 8756 listed under Linux-x86-64 and Linux-x86
[06:16] <hub> so no PowerPC
[06:16] <zakame> malone 38619
[06:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38619 in balsa "FTBFS: using deprecated GNOME_PARAM_POPT_TABLE" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38619
[06:17] <hub> one more proof that this company do not care about its customers
[06:17] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, nope, sorry.  I've never seen a PPC linux driver released from nVidia.  Seeing as how the market is like .00001% of nvidia users it really wouldn't make much snese
[06:17] <FunnyLookinHat> *sense
[06:17] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i would say on the line before the example to make sure some parameters are filled up similar to the example below :
[06:17] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, lol, you are such a minority though
[06:17] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, Most PPC based computers (i.e. Macs) use ATI
[06:18] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: you are wrong. PowerBook 12" and 17"
[06:18] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: G5
[06:18] <hub> etc
[06:18] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, oh really?  wow, i had no idea.
[06:18] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: btw neither does ATI
[06:19] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, well we all know ATI sucks
[06:19] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i'll just pm you
[06:19] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, well at least the powerbook I am going to buy in a year is intel based   ;)
[06:20] <hub> FunnyLookinHat: get a real PC instead
[06:20] <hub> the X1600 found on the MacBookPro isn't supported by ATI
[06:20] <hub> there is NO driver
[06:21] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, get a real PC?  why?  I already have several of those and I like powerbooks more  ^_^
[06:21] <hub> because it is a better bargain
[06:21] <LaserJock> hub: neither for my iMac :(
[06:21] <FunnyLookinHat> hub, besides, with Boot Camp I will eventually be able to triple boot linux, OS X, and windows XP (for work)
[06:22] <hub> LaserJock: exactly, I forgot the iMac
[06:22] <LaserJock> I love this thing (and OSX) but I'd really like to dual boot dapper on it.
[06:23] <FunnyLookinHat> LaserJock, I got my buddies HP laptop dual booting OS X and ubuntu  : )
[06:23] <LaserJock> well, I need to go the other way around unfortunately
[06:24] <FunnyLookinHat> :-/
[06:26] <hub> somehow I feel that distribution should stop shipping that kind of crashware. not and easy decision, but I think it would be best for everybody to pressure the manufacturers
[06:27] <na7e> Yeah, i'm probably going to buy a mac this year
[06:27] <na7e> purely for the osx goodness with the ability to do .net development
[06:33] <jaldhar> .oO(doesn't ubuntu let you do .net development?)
[06:34] <G0SUB> jaldhar: mono
[06:34] <FunnyLookinHat> but even with XGL ubuntu isn't enough eye candy for na7e
[06:34] <jaldhar> G0SUB: exactly.  I started using it recently and it's really coming along.  Even winforms stuff
[06:35] <G0SUB> jaldhar: have you tried dotGNU?
[06:35] <jaldhar> G0SUB: no. not yet
[06:35] <G0SUB> jaldhar: wasn't it supposed to be classified ?
[06:35] <jaldhar> G0SUB: in what way?
[06:36] <bddebian> MCSD.. w00t :-)
[06:36] <G0SUB> jaldhar: MCSD and you
[06:36] <jsgotangco> show me the money
[06:36] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:36] <jaldhar> unfortunately all you linux hippies aren't paying my rent
[06:36] <G0SUB> jaldhar: hehe
[06:37] <zakame> lol
[06:38] <bddebian> jaldhar: Heh, I know that feeling too :-)
[06:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:38] <jaldhar> but I've had a little success with the "hire me and I'll help you get from windows to Linux" angle.  Pure linux jobs are still pretty rare
[06:38] <G0SUB> jaldhar: but why MCSD? does it have any value now?
[06:39] <G0SUB> I have no idea if firms still hire MCSDs
[06:39] <G0SUB> what about RHCA, etc. ?
[06:39] <jaldhar> G0SUB: not an awful lot but it gives me some structure in efforts to learn c# and I'm sure some people are impressed by it
[06:40] <LaserJock> some people are impressed by any acronym ;-)
[06:40] <G0SUB> LaserJock: lol
[06:41] <jaldhar> G0SUB: I'm an RHCE too and that does impress people but there aren't a lot of pure linux jobs in the USA
[06:41] <LaserJock> LASER  for instance ;-)
[06:41] <bddebian> Yeah, I alway append WTF and BFD to my business cards ;-P
[06:41] <bddebian> Err always even
[06:41] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:41] <G0SUB> LaserJock: Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
[06:41] <jaldhar> people are slowly introducing it into their business but not comitting to it.
[06:42] <LaserJock> G0SUB: heck yeah, now that's what I'm talking about.
[06:42] <G0SUB> LaserJock: what's Jock?
[06:42] <zakame> hm
[06:42] <G0SUB> LaserJock: is that a contraction of Jordan?
[06:43] <LaserJock> talking about certification, I finally got my Laser Safety Certification yesterday (after 4 years of using the laser and being the lab laser safety officer)
[06:43] <jsgotangco> wow you get to have a laser gun?
[06:43] <G0SUB> LaserJock: btw, do you have any idea about the personal LASIK machines?
[06:44] <G0SUB> LaserJock: http://www.lasikathome.com/
[06:44] <zakame> hmm Ubuntu and Laser in one
[06:45] <jsgotangco> G0SUB: those look scary
[06:46] <LaserJock> heh, mines bigger ;-)
[06:47] <jsgotangco> is it red yellow or green? heh
[06:47] <jsgotangco> or blue
[06:47] <LaserJock> G0SUB: btw, jock is slang for enthusiast or very interested in, something like that
[06:48] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I can make any color between UltraViolet and Infrared
[06:48] <LaserJock> right now it is mostly red and UV
[06:49] <bddebian> hehe
[06:49] <jsgotangco> those things can cut?
[06:50] <LaserJock> CO2 laser cut through metal, very fast
[06:50] <LaserJock> but my laser only burns through paper mostly
[06:50] <jsgotangco> pfftt
[06:50] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: friendly fire
[06:51] <crimsun> Lathiat: I'll address bug #38546 tonight
[06:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38546 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Add hp_only quirk for pci id [1106:3059]  to via82xx ALSA driver" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38546
[06:51] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: but I can drill holes through glass with mine :-)
[06:51] <zakame> heh
[06:51] <jsgotangco> yeah but i'm carbon based and definitely thicker than glass
[06:52] <jsgotangco> err what kind of glass hehe
[06:52] <zakame> buwahaha
[06:52] <LaserJock> Fused Silica
[06:52] <LaserJock> about 1in thik
[06:52] <LaserJock> thick
[06:53] <LaserJock> our Postdoc drilled a hole through a $500USD optic one time, grrr
[06:54] <LaserJock> and later exploded our lab :(
[06:54] <LaserJock> but I wasn't around then, I believe he went into Computer Science after that :-)
[07:15] <jsgotangco> APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated 1;
[07:15] <jsgotangco> jsg@ubuntu:/etc$
[07:15] <jsgotangco> ooppss
[07:17] <zakame> gn8 all!
[07:18] <zakame> er ETIME
[07:18] <LaserJock> cya zakame
[07:19] <zakame> thanks LaserJock :D
[07:25] <FunnyLookinHat> So, nobody knows the ETA on getting nvidia 8756 drivers into repos?
[07:26] <LaserJock> umm, let me put it this way. I wouldn't hold my breath
[07:26] <FunnyLookinHat> LaserJock, Feature Freeze isn't going to hold it up from being past June 1, is it??
[07:26] <FunnyLookinHat> oh please say no, that would be really sad.
[07:27] <LaserJock> I would say proper testing, etc. would hold it up. I don't think we usually get the nvidia driver as soon as they come out
[07:28] <LaserJock> you have to see how many changes were made, etc.
[07:28] <FunnyLookinHat> Ahh ok.  Well it's a huge release, version 1.0, etc.  I guess I'll just cross my fingers.
[08:18] <phanatic> hi people
[08:19] <Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic :)
[08:19] <bddebian> Hello phanatic
[08:19] <phanatic> hello Gloubiboulga and bddebian :)
[08:52] <perli> i've uploaded a package of gPodder, a podcast catcher to REVU. if anyone wants to have a look at it and give some feedback, I'd be happy :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2249
[08:54] <phanatic> hi raphink
[08:55] <LaserJock> raphink: hi!
[08:59] <Gloubiboulga> perli, your source package has no .diff.gz, and no .orig.tar.gz
[08:59] <LaserJock> yikes, does it have anything?
[09:00] <Gloubiboulga> yes, a .tar.gz, with a nice debian/ dir in it :)
[09:01] <crimsun> accidentally native?
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> perli, you're the author I think?
[09:01] <perli> yes
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> then it'll be easy to fix this
[09:01] <perli> shouldn't i have a debian directory in the original source if it can be provided by me (aka upstream)?
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> you have to use a source tarball without the debian/dir
[09:02] <Gloubiboulga> perli, no
[09:02] <Gloubiboulga> we usually have a debian dir in the sources when it's a debian/ubuntu specific app
[09:03] <Gloubiboulga> which is not the case here
[09:03] <LaserJock> perli: it is recommended to separate the debian/ directory so that it is easier to deal with in the future
[09:03] <perli> so i remove the debian dir and use it only for package building?
[09:03] <Gloubiboulga> perli, yep
[09:04] <perli> and when i want to sync upstream source to package, do i rename it to the .orig.tar.gz name?
[09:04] <Gloubiboulga> and you'll have to change your tarball name to <package>_<version>.orig.tar.gz
[09:05] <perli> so i then have this <package>_<version>.orig.tar.gz, i extract it to <package>_<version>, put in the debian dir and then create the source and binary packages? or is there an easier way?
[09:06] <LaserJock> once it is done, then it is easier
[09:06] <Gloubiboulga> it's the way I use, except that extracted dir is names <package>-<version>
[09:06] <Gloubiboulga> s/names/named
[09:07] <perli> do i get the debian directory for free after the first copy because it creates a .diff ?
[09:09] <Gloubiboulga> sorry, I don't understand your question... my english has some limits :/
[09:12] <perli> what i mean is how do i proceed if a new upstream version (or rather update) gets in? do i have to delete everything, extract source and copy the debian directory into it? guess it's easier?
[09:14] <crimsun> uupdate does that
[09:14] <perli> oh :) ok.. thanks for the hint :)
[09:15] <perli> will use that and your suggestions to re-upload
[09:15] <perli> any other things you've found that are not correct?
[09:16] <Gloubiboulga> hmm, yes
[09:16] <Gloubiboulga> in debian/changelog, one entry is enough, since it'll be the first ubuntu release
[09:17] <Gloubiboulga> (I suppose it's not in debian yet)
[09:17] <Gloubiboulga> and the version should be 0.7+svn20060407-0ubuntu1
[09:17] <perli> no, it's not in debian yet. found that the REVU thing might be the most helpful place to start ;)
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> true :)
[09:18] <perli> so while i'm uploading packages to REVU, i don't have to change the version or release number?
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> and the distro is dapper :)
[09:18] <perli> ok
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> nop, just keep the same version until it's uploaded
[09:19] <Gloubiboulga> we use dabhelper compat=5 in dapper, so you can update the compat file and the debhelper version
[09:20] <Gloubiboulga> about the copyright, you may want to use the header proposed by the FSF in your source files
[09:21] <Gloubiboulga> see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html#SEC4
[09:21] <perli> ok :)
[09:21] <Gloubiboulga> and you'll just have to copy it in debian/copyright
[09:22] <perli> lots of bureaucracy, i see =)
[09:22] <Gloubiboulga> kind of, but that's important :)
[09:24] <Gloubiboulga> I'm building the package
[09:32] <perli> another question: is it possible to build packages for ubuntu on a debian testing/unstable release or is the best bet doing it directly in ubuntu?
[09:33] <perli> i currently build the packages on a freshly installed breezy machine, but that's not my development machine
[09:33] <Gloubiboulga> the best way is to build your package using pbuilder or equivalent
[09:33] <Gloubiboulga> to build the .debs I mean
[09:34] <Gloubiboulga> but you can do it on debian or ubuntu, it doesn't matter
[09:35] <Gloubiboulga> your package builds and works fine :)
[09:37] <perli> which version of debhelper should be specified?
[09:39] <Gloubiboulga> I set >=5.0.0
[09:40] <hub> has anyone ever tried to package freepascal?
[09:43] <bddebian> hub: I did once
[09:44] <hub> and?
[09:44] <hub> it will need manual boostraping
[09:44] <hub> as it is self-compiling
[09:45] <perli> Standards-Version: 3.6.2 is okay?
[09:46] <LaserJock> perli: apt-cache show debian-policy| grep Version
[09:46] <LaserJock> is the current version
[09:47] <bddebian> hub: Yep :-(
[09:47] <bddebian> Actually maybe it's still on REVU? :-)
[09:47] <perli> ok, thanks LaserJock
[09:47] <hub> bddebian: oh. I don't remember to have seen it
[09:48] <hub> checking again
[09:48] <hub> bddebian: I don't see it there
[09:48] <hub> ah yeah found it
[10:04] <perli> what should the README.Debian file include?
[10:04] <LaserJock> usually it should be removed
[10:05] <LaserJock> unless there is something specific to Debian/Ubuntu
[10:05] <perli> ok
[10:05] <LaserJock> perli: you might find http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-examples.html helpful
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html, I think there's a tiny problem
[10:06] <LaserJock> only one?
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> you set the hello package version to 2.1.1-1
[10:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:07] <LaserJock> I think it is ok, I discuss versioning later
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> why don't you use the -ubuntuX version?
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> ah ok
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> I have not read everything yet
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> no problem then ;)
[10:09] <LaserJock> the reason I didn't use -ubuntuX was because there isn't one in the repos (we just have the Debian source) and I didn't want to deviate too much from the source package you get from "apt-get source hello"
[10:09] <LaserJock> I sort of wish it did have an -ubuntuX version but it doesn't
[10:11] <Gloubiboulga> that's a good reason
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> I should try to build a package from scratch once
[10:33] <cbx33> Hi all
[10:33] <cbx33> Hi LaserJock
[10:34] <pef> hi cbx33
[10:34] <bddebian> Hello cbx33
[10:34] <cbx33> hi pef bddebian :p
[10:35] <cbx33> I think i found a bug I can actually fix
[10:35] <cbx33> I'm gonna try tomorrow
[10:35] <cbx33> and hopefully submit my first bugfix
[10:35] <Gloubiboulga> that's good news cbx33 :)
[10:36] <cbx33> yeh, my question is this :p
[10:36] <cbx33> i need some kinda help on workflow - i know everyone has their own way of doing things
[10:36] <cbx33> I have a chroot, my normal installation and pbuilder all setup
[10:37] <cbx33> so
[10:37] <cbx33> how do i work it -
[10:37] <cbx33> install the package in the chroot, see how it breaks then modify source, uninstall, reinstall ???
[10:37] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[10:38] <cbx33> then put together a list of changes and build the debdiff?
[10:38] <cbx33> Hey LaserJock d'ya get my mails....
[10:38] <cbx33> I don;t have too much time tonight....but i should have some time to try out things tomorrow
[10:38] <LaserJock> yes, I think so. It's been kinda hectic
[10:39] <cbx33> was trying to get all the information so i can try things tomorrow
[10:40] <LaserJock> yeah, so you:
[10:40] <LaserJock> fix the bug (in your chroot or whatever)
[10:40] <LaserJock> make patches or fixes in the downloaded source package
[10:40] <LaserJock> add changelog entry
[10:40] <cbx33> what happens if it's a test of installing the package?
[10:41] <cbx33> like a change to the rules file etc?
[10:41] <LaserJock> a build-deps problem?
[10:41] <cbx33> for example
[10:41] <cbx33> or just simply a change to the pre/post scripts
[10:42] <LaserJock> if you know how to fix the problem just apt-get the source package, make changes, add changelog, rebuild source package (debuild -S), build .deb with pbuilder, install and test
[10:43] <cbx33> ok
[10:43] <cbx33> i see
[10:43] <cbx33> well I'll try tomorroe
[10:43] <cbx33> i think there was a problem I emailed you about....ah yes i remember now.....was to do with locales and mysql
[10:44] <cbx33> i'll probably have to go in a few mins
[10:44] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[10:44] <cbx33> but I'll be aroudn tomorrow if you someone could possibly give me a hand there
[10:44] <LaserJock> I've had problems with locals in chroots
[10:44] <cbx33> ok...just ignore it?
[10:45] <cbx33> mysql was funny though refuesd to start.....can the chroot open up ports and run servies? - there was no mysql running on the local host machine
[10:45] <Gloubiboulga> 'night
[10:45] <tseng> running services in chroot can be interesting
[10:45] <tseng> youll want to look for a doc on running mysql in chroot
[10:45] <LaserJock> I remember now. the problem is sometimes there is a difference between the chroot locals and the locals on your computer
[10:46] <cbx33> tseng, ok
[10:46] <cbx33> LaserJock, I see.....easy fix?
[10:46] <LaserJock> I use and alias now to get rid of the warnings: alias dchroot-dapper="LC_ALL=C dchroot -d"
[10:46] <tseng> you could just install the locales in chroot for that
[10:46] <cbx33> possibly include info in the docs
[10:46] <LaserJock> tseng: I did
[10:47] <cbx33> damn it, the package i was testing relied on mysql
[10:47] <cbx33> grr
[10:47] <cbx33> nevermind I'll try again tomorrow - possibly pick another easy bug fix
[10:49] <cbx33> is running apache in a chroot just as difficult?
[10:49] <LaserJock> I have no idea. I haven't run those types of things
[10:49] <LaserJock> I've just run Gnome and X apps
[10:50] <cbx33> ok
[10:51] <LaserJock> heh, right now I'm running gnome-session in my chroot over ssh ;-)
[10:51] <cbx33> and presumably none of your apps have relied on those :p
[10:51] <cbx33> hahah
[10:51] <cbx33> nn
[10:51] <LaserJock> and I just started up KDE
[10:52] <bddebian> Later cbx33
[10:52] <LaserJock> cya cbx33
[10:52] <cbx33> bye bddebian LaserJock
[10:57] <pygi> meebey, around?
[10:59] <pygi> who is here in charge of Monodevelop package? :)
[11:00] <LaserJock> pygi: nobody is in charge of any one package. Universe is team maintained
[11:00] <pygi> bah, yes, I know, I was joking, notice the ":)"
[11:00] <LaserJock> ah, sorry. the :) slipped by me ;-)
[11:01] <pygi> LaserJock: who can update the Universe package, if I ask for UVFe, and get it?
[11:03] <LaserJock> pygi: well, any MOTU (ubuntu-dev LP team) can upload to Universe
[11:04] <pygi> LaserJock: thanks
[11:04] <LaserJock_away> np
[11:31] <slomo> pygi: i care for it currently ;)
[11:31] <pygi> slomo: update it preety, preety please? :) I'll ask for UVFe? :)
[11:32] <slomo> pygi: and i'm waiting for debian for 0.10... should be finished this weekend :) and then i'll ask for a uvf exception, need some testers and we're all happy ;)
[11:32] <slomo> pygi: could you give me your mail address so i can tell you when i have something to test?
[11:32] <pygi> slomo: mario dot danic at gmail dot com
[11:33] <slomo> thanks
[11:33] <pygi> How much testers you need? lemme find some :)
[11:34] <pygi> slomo, still alive? :)
[11:34] <slomo> hm... i have 5 now... that should be enough :)
[11:34] <pygi> slomo: ah, ok :)


[00:24] <stgraber> adam_g: hey there, that troveclient upload is supposed to contain some file permission fixes, but I'm not seeing that in the diff, did you miss something?
[00:25] <stgraber> adam_g: ah, nevermind, I re-read the changelog entry and it's just the modes of the files within debian/ which can't be represented in a diff, will accept the upload now
[00:25] <adam_g> stgraber, ah, cool. thanks
[00:26] <stgraber> libsystemsettings1 (from ubuntu-system-settings) is seeded in:
[00:26] <stgraber>   lubuntu: supported
[00:26] <stgraber> ubuntu-system-settings (from ubuntu-system-settings) is seeded in:
[00:26] <stgraber>   lubuntu: supported
[00:26] <stgraber> in case someone wonders why ubuntu-system-settings isn't getting auto-accepted
[00:33] <stgraber> the reason for that seems to be indicator-bluetooth on non-gnome based flavours
[00:47] <slangasek> stgraber: erm, that sounds entirely bogus
[00:48] <stgraber> slangasek: it's broken ordering of indicator-bluetooth dependencies
[00:48] <slangasek> accepting
[00:48] <slangasek> stgraber: well, if it's seeded in "supported" anyway, that shouldn't trump the fact that it's a touch package and covered by the policy for touch
[00:49] <stgraber> slangasek: yeah, as I said in -ci I'm not against getting it approved but I'd like to make sure someone will take care of the wrong dependency ordering of indicator-bluetooth
[00:52] <slangasek> I don't see why it's picked up by lubuntu supported at all; http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/lubuntu.saucy/supported seems to show an infinite loop
[00:54] <stgraber> yeah, there seems to be a unity related loop in there, I didn't look much closer than that, however the depends on indicator-bluetooth is wrong and should be fixed (which may be enough to convince germinate to drop ubuntu-system-settings from that seed so we don't have to force it in the future)
[00:55] <slangasek> I don't see that the dependency is wrong; it's arbitrary which one is listed first, anything that actually cares which one is pulled in should make sure it's installed before pulling in indicator-bluetooth
[00:56] <slangasek> pulling g-c-c + gnome-bluetooth in on the phone is no less wrong than pulling u-s-s in on the desktop
[00:58] <stgraber> well, I don't see why someone would suddenly need to add a dependency for some gnome packages when a release ago they didn't have to, so adding any alternative that you don't want everyone to use should be done by prepending them, not appending
[00:58] <stgraber> bah, the other way around :)
[00:59] <slangasek> that's fair, but lubuntu isn't *actually* depending on unity anyway
[01:00] <slangasek> so by this point anyone who is, and who doesn't want the phone implementation, has already dealt with this - forcing the dependencies to be flipped now is just causing churn for the phone images
[01:01] <stgraber> well, we have no idea how many Lubuntu users out there actually installed indicator-bluetooth post-install and that germinate output says that if any did, they'll end up with ubuntu-system-settings on their system, so I agree it's not a critical bug to fix, but I still want it fixed by release
[01:02] <stgraber> (especially as I believe we got all the other indicators fixed in the same way recently when something similar affected Edubuntu a few days back)
[01:03] <slangasek> We can estimate the number of lubuntu users installing indicator-bluetooth at zero.  It doesn't integrate with lubuntu, and people don't install lubuntu if they're looking for unity.  The bug is in germinate, not in u-s-s.
[01:05] <slangasek> if the phone seed + indicator-bluetooth both get fixed before release, then that's fine, but it's a minor issue
[01:07] <stgraber> slangasek: what needs fixing in the phone seed? ubuntu-system-settings has been listed in there since it's been uploaded to the archive.
[01:07] <slangasek> stgraber: is it listed in there in an order that ensures germinate won't pick up g-c-c + gnome-bluetooth *and* u-s-s?
[01:09] <stgraber> slangasek: both the indicators and ubuntu-system-settings are listed in the same seed, so I believe so. Most if not all other indicators list those the other way around, so I don't see how fixing the odd one would change anything.
[01:10] <slangasek> stgraber: in fact, indicator-bluetooth is listed first in the seed before any of the other indicators or u-s-s.  So with the current seed, this dependency is the only thing that's keeping the touch image from pulling in the wrong deps.
[01:11] <slangasek> which is exactly why we shouldn't be in a hurry to flip or'ed dependencies around that aren't actually hurting anything
[01:19] <slangasek> ah, it's ubuntu-defaults-builder
[01:19] <slangasek> lubuntu inherits from platform/supported-development-desktop, which lists u-d-b, which depends on unity-common
[01:22] <slangasek> stgraber: so given that 'supported' is, by definition, "seeded stuff that's not on the images", shouldn't we ignore supported for this check?
[01:24] <slangasek> not quite sure why this only shows up in the lubuntu seed, really, given that it's part of "supported-common" which is used everywhere - but anyway, I don't think "supported" is what we meant by "seeded".
[01:26] <stgraber> I suspect there's a fair amount of server packages that are in supported (due to limited space) and which we don't want to just let through, so I don't think allowing packages only seeded in supported through is a good move
[01:29] <stgraber> nagios3, exim4 and freeradius are some that come to mind at least and I know we've got a bunch more in our seeds
[01:36] <slangasek> stgraber: right, but I think that's because supported has a special meaning for Ubuntu ... because it means "and that other stuff in main".  But for !Ubuntu, I don't think it has any meaning
[01:36] <slangasek> certainly, the presence of unity in the lubuntu seed shows that it doesn't mean anything in *that* case
[01:36] <slangasek> so what about ignoring supported for !Ubuntu?
[02:01] <plars> slangasek: I haven't really dealt with the adt tests, that's jibel and pitti... I could try retriggering it if you think it would help
[02:08] <slangasek> plars: well, it's not the tests so much as the environment... that error clearly points to fs corruption
[02:08] <slangasek> plars: is that anything you could fix?
[02:10] <slangasek> plars: barring that, a retry is also fine :)
[02:10] <plars> slangasek: I didn't see any obvious issues on the build slave, could be something in the jenkins environment not getting cleaned up properly. The run-adt-test script there does have a datestamp of today
[02:10] <plars> the job itself isn't updating it though
[02:11] <plars> so I'm not sure if there's another job somewhere that pulls the latest of that, or if someone updated it by hand today
[02:12] <slangasek> plars: so whatever filesystem was corrupted is no longer an issue?
[02:13] <plars> slangasek: those errors are after it's already in the VM, but the host system seems ok
[02:13] <slangasek> plars: and the VM isn't reused across multiple jobs?
[02:14] <plars> slangasek: It's probably cow, but I'm not familiar with the setup
[02:15] <slangasek> hmm, alright
[02:15] <slangasek> so if you could retry the job, that'd be keen
[02:15] <plars> slangasek: yeah, looks like it does: qemu-img create -f qcow2 -o backing_file=$DISKPATH $BCKPATH
[02:16] <plars> slangasek: these jobs are started in an unusual way it looks like, but I'll give it a shot
[02:16] <slangasek> right... so there could be corruption on the underlying base image, or the VM itself might've somehow corrupted it
[02:37] <plars> slangasek: still failing
[02:37] <plars> blame: arg:systemd_204-0ubuntu13.dsc dsc:systemd
[02:37] <plars> badpkg: dependency install failed, exit code 1
[02:37] <plars> quitting: erroneous package: dependency install failed, exit code 1
[02:37] <plars> slangasek: any chance it's a legitimate failure?
[02:38] <plars> slangasek: there's also a .crash file getting picked up from the run for initramfs-tools
[03:38] <mfisch> Evening all. Does the beta et al freezes apply to syncing a new debian package into Universe?
[04:24] <slangasek> plars: I don't see any way it could be a legitimate failure in the systemd autopkgtests that the /tmp filesystem is corrupt.  Was this on the same jenkins slave again?
[04:25] <slangasek> mfisch: syncing a new Debian package into universe is covered by feature freeze
[04:33] <plars> slangasek: talking to pitti about it now, apparently that machine caused some weird problems like this recently
[04:33] <slangasek> ok
[04:34] <plars> slangasek: he's worked around it for now, it came back green this time
[04:35] <slangasek> alright, thanks :)
[08:20] <didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: any of you published friends? I wonder why it came without any landing requests ^
[08:22] <sil2100> didrocks: not me, maybe robru ?
[08:22] <didrocks> robru: did you? ^
[08:22] <sil2100> Since I saw a task for unblocking libfriends assigned to him
[08:22] <didrocks> sil2100: maybe, but it's not about publishing it without a landing slot
[08:23] <sil2100> Maybe robru misinterpreted it...
[08:23] <didrocks> can we have anyone unblocking libunity + scope-home?
[08:24] <infinity> didrocks: s/unblocking/reviewing/ and yeah, I'll look in a sec.  Sorting some things.
[08:24] <didrocks> thanks infinity
[08:24]  * cjwatson goes to accept the pile of langpacks
[08:24] <Laney> cjwatson: Think pitti was doing it
[08:25] <cjwatson> ok
[08:25]  * infinity hands some buildds to i386 for the incoming barrage.
[08:26] <Laney> care to change the default release in queuediff?
[08:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, if you didn't catch up on backscroll, we now have a hack in place that auto-accepts non-set/unseeded packages, so unapproved should only be full of things that actually need review.
[08:31] <cjwatson> Yep, I heard
[08:32] <cjwatson> infinity: want me to look at didrocks' request?
[08:33] <infinity> cjwatson: I was grabbing it, but if you're keen on reviewing unity, I won't stop you. :P
[08:33] <infinity> Oh, I guess it's just libunity, how bad can it be?
[08:34] <Mirv> didrocks: nope
[08:34] <cjwatson> If you're already on it I'll leave you to it
[08:34] <infinity> cjwatson: Alrighty.
[13:29] <stgraber> ^ that's me marking the milestone as released
[13:41] <Riddell> sigh, they should have gone to a ppa, I'll delete
[13:42] <smartboyhw> Riddell, -.-
[13:42] <ogra_> qeueu party !
[13:42] <ogra_> *queue
[13:43] <didrocks> ogra_: will, now, it's killing party for Riddell :p
[13:44] <ogra_> didrocks, doom3 queue party then ;)
[13:44] <apw> someone got lucky
[13:57] <xnox> stgraber: hm cherrypy3 in ubuntu. I go to look.
[14:01] <attente> hi, can i request an unblock of indicator-keyboard? this bug was fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-keyboard/+bug/1228489
[14:04] <Laney> attente: I don't see it
[14:04] <attente> Laney, the bug?
[14:04] <Laney> attente: Also, no need to request approvals now that beta is done; we'll be reviewing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= often
[14:04] <Laney> the upload
[14:04] <seb128> I'm going to do a manual upload in a bit, so don't worry about the upload
[14:04] <seb128> (need the .pot to be added since that launchpad fix hasn't been deployed yet)
[14:05] <Laney> So, nothing to request for this one
[14:05] <attente> oh ok
[14:05] <attente> Laney, seb128, thanks
[14:05] <Laney> Feature freeze still stands for other stuff, of course
[14:05] <attente> Laney, do i need a FFe for this bug?
[14:05] <Laney> not for bug fixes
[14:06] <Laney> was just making sure that me saying "no need to request approvals" wasn't too broadly stated
[14:06] <attente> ah, understood
[14:07] <seb128> attente, Laney: it's already in saucy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-keyboard/0.0.0+13.10.20130924.2-0ubuntu1
[14:07] <Laney> oho
[14:08] <attente> oh.. i didn't realize that
[14:08] <attente> yay :)
[14:11] <infinity> zul: Did you discuss the above upload with anyone, or just feel that the appropriate response to a reject was to upload the exact same thing again and hope for a different review?
[14:12] <infinity> zul: Ahh, you filed an FFe bug this time.  Would have been nice to reference that in the changelog... And also not mysteriously delete the last version from the changelog too.
[14:13] <zul> sorry
[14:14] <apw> $ md5sum ubuntu-13.10-beta2-server-amd64.iso
[14:14] <apw> 4d869a82e8bc4e88de6379a0609fe598  ubuntu-13.10-beta2-server-amd64.iso
[14:14] <apw> dammit ... not that channel ok
[14:14] <attente> Laney, i have this FFe for unity-greeter, can you please take a look at it?
[14:14] <infinity> zul: Can you fix up the changelog to not drop the 1.0.3-0ubuntu2 revision from history, and include a ref to the FFe?
[14:14] <attente> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter/+bug/1228207
[14:14] <zul> infinity:  sure
[14:15] <Laney> attente: ok
[14:15] <Laney> attente: Didn't see it before because it's not on the ubuntu package
[14:16] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&field.status:list=NEW&field.status:list=CONFIRMED&field.status:list=TRIAGED&field.status:list=INPROGRESS&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-release&field.structural_subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&f ...
[14:16] <attente> Laney, sorry about that, i'm not really familiar with the FFe process
[14:16] <Laney> ... ield.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_no_package.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search&orderby=st ...
[14:16] <Laney> ... atus&start=0 ← the URL I use to see outstanding requests
[14:16] <Laney> omg
[14:16] <Laney> http://is.gd/CgE4Hu
[14:16] <infinity> *cough*tinyurl*cough*
[14:16] <infinity> Or is.gd. :P
[14:17] <attente> ah, so FFe requests need to be on ubuntu? should i re-write the request?
[14:17] <Laney> it's fine, I'll add the task
[14:17] <Laney> I'm just sayin' that's why I didn't see it so far
[14:17] <attente> oh ok
[14:18] <attente> thanks Laney
[14:18] <infinity> It should be against the package, yes, not the upstream project.
[14:19] <attente> ok, i see, thanks infinity
[14:20] <Laney> In other news, I just superglued my fingers together
[14:20] <infinity> Did you type that with your nose?
[14:20] <Laney> I've ripped them apart
[14:21] <cjwatson> You can reduce that URL to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-release&orderby=status if you don't mind it also showing Fix Committed
[14:21] <Laney> The oresum bar remembers it for me
[14:31] <attente> Laney, thanks!
[14:39] <stgraber> Rejected oslo-config, some changes in the upstream changelog looked like features and I don't see a FFe or a bug report justifying why this should get in after FeatureFreeze
[14:45] <stgraber> Laney: wow, that's one confusing diff for glib-networking :)
[14:45] <stgraber> though apparently it's pretty much exclusively automagic changes and addition of tests, so I guess that's fine
[14:46] <Laney> yeah I think it's ok if you filter out the guff
[14:46] <stgraber> yeah, didn't see any obvious bad change in there, I'll let it in and accept the the new binary once it shows up
[14:46] <Laney> thanks
[14:47] <Laney> we should totally have a tool to filter noise from diffs
[14:49] <infinity> Laney: Like filterdiff?
[14:49] <Laney> I guess it'd wrap filterdiff
[14:57] <rtg> infinity, a nice fat saucy kernel to gum up the works for you.
[14:57] <infinity> rtg: Mmm, fat and saucy.
[14:58] <rtg> indeed
[14:59] <infinity> rtg: That's a remarkably conservative point release.  Urgent bugfixes in there, or is Greg still hung over from New Orleans?
[15:00] <rtg> infinity, 117 stable patches I think. thats not totally conservative
[15:00] <infinity> rtg: It's pretty conservative, given the size of some of the recent ones.
[15:00] <rtg> true
[15:01] <infinity> rtg: Accepted.
[15:01] <rtg> infinity, thanks
[15:04] <zul> stgraber:  1232062 for oslo.config
[15:22] <zul> hi can i get oslo-config accepted please (#1232062)
[15:22] <apw> bug #1232062
[15:35] <Riddell> zul: accepted
[15:35] <zul> thanks
[15:49] <Riddell> qt guys ship minified javascript and are suggesting to put a pointer to sources, is that acceptable? http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2013-September/013226.html
[15:51] <infinity> Riddell: No.
[15:51] <Riddell> didn't think so
[15:52] <infinity> Riddell: As stated in that post you link, pointing to somewhere else (that might change, not stay in sync, disappear) isn't an acceptable form of "providing the preferred form of modification".
[15:53] <stgraber> Riddell: for packaging, I believe you should either use an already packaged version (libjs-*) or ship the upstream modifiable version of the library (if the minified version gives you a performance improvemented, then you could minify it at build time but the source package needs the full version)
[15:53] <stgraber> *improvement
[16:29] <stgraber> Riddell: what? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/151652586/mplayerthumbs_4%3A4.11.1-0ubuntu1_4%3A4.11.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[16:29] <stgraber> Riddell: that seems pretty minimal for a new upstream release ;)
[16:31] <jodh> stgraber/slangasek/xnox: FYI: just raised FFe bug 1232119 for upstart.
[16:31] <xnox> jodh: i didn't think there needs one.
[16:32] <stgraber> jodh: bugfixes don't need FFe, is that more than a bugfix?
[16:33] <jodh> xnox/stgraber: ah right, thanks - yes it's just a bug fix so I'll close that sucker :)
[16:33] <Riddell> stgraber: lots of kde sc packages don't get updates between releases, but they're all released nevertheless
[16:34] <stgraber> Riddell: so what's the point in uploading that if it doesn't even change the version number in any of the source files? anyway, someone other than me rejected it :)
[16:35] <Riddell> stgraber: they are all packaged by a script so it's more effort not to upload it than to upload it
[16:36] <Riddell> I expect gnome does similar
[16:36] <didrocks> cjwatson: infinity: if you can look at the unity7 stack, that would be awesome ^ (unity8 is depending on it as well to get some good fixes on touch)
[16:36] <didrocks> (yeah, unity depends on unity ;))
[16:37] <didrocks> then, it will enable us to cut an image and get ogra_ some sleep :)
[16:37] <didrocks> (mediascanner is coming in < 3 minutes)
[16:37] <ogra_> heh
[16:37] <ogra_> you all sound like i would lack sleep :)
[16:37] <ogra_> i'm *not* infinity :)
[16:37] <didrocks> ah no, the mediascanner we needed is already in ;)
[16:38] <ogra_> yes, its on -changes
[16:38] <cjwatson> didrocks: firefighting something else right now
[16:38] <didrocks> ogra_: I hope for you it's not that bad ;)
[16:38] <didrocks> cjwatson: sure, no worry ;)
[16:38] <Laney> I'll look
[16:38] <Laney> Best not to ping individual RT members
[16:39] <didrocks> thanks Laney!
[16:39] <didrocks> (and good luck, it's quite a lot)
[16:39] <Laney> Well, can split it with someone
[16:42] <ogra_> dont you let half packages through !
[16:42] <stgraber> Laney: was planning on doing some of them after lunch here, so if you give up I'll pick up the rest
[16:43] <Laney> half packages?
[16:47] <ogra_> if you split them :)
[16:48] <Laney> why would I randomly split packages
[16:49]  * Laney is confused
[16:49] <slangasek> to try to probe the inner truths of package particle physics
 Well, can split it with someone
[16:49] <Laney> deb rpm duality
[16:50] <Laney> Oh I see, you mean accepting half of them
[16:53] <Laney> stgraber: nux compix unity-scope-guahuahfaiu unity-scope-audacious OK
[16:53] <Laney> -home changes a translated string; not sure about that and unity is left for your enjoyment
[16:54] <Laney> a visitor just turned up, better go see what's up for a bit
[16:54] <Laney> o/
[17:42] <slangasek> ogra_: do you know why /etc/adjtime exists on the Touch images?
[17:42] <ogra_> slangasek, it doesnt, but as i understood timedated falls over if it isnt writable ?!?
[17:43] <ogra_> (i guess it would create it)
[17:43] <slangasek> ogra_: I have /etc/adjtime here on my device; not sure how it got there if it's not part of the image
[17:43] <ogra_> slangasek, pitt can give yu details i think
[17:44] <ogra_> slangasek, it was explicitly added to the writable files which creates it if it doesnt exist ...
[17:44] <slangasek> according to Laney, timedated falls over *if* /etc/adjtime exists *and* isn't writable
[17:45] <ogra_> well, that stuff will go away again once pittis (and stgraber's) changes for timezone selection land on monday
[17:45] <slangasek> no
[17:45] <slangasek> /etc/adjtime is *not supposed to be there*
[17:45] <ogra_> then there should be a writable dir and no adjtime
[17:46] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/mnt$ tar Jtvf ~/Desktop/phablet-flash/imageupdates/pool/ubuntu-5219cfe1d590fddbebe1228872ff1529156efdc996571da44cbbe2438b37cee9.tar.xz | grep adj
[17:46] <stgraber> -rw-r--r-- root/root        10 2013-09-27 04:15 system/etc/adjtime
[17:46] <slangasek> it's not supposed to be in /etc/writable either
[17:46] <stgraber> so it sure is in the image generated on nusakan...
[17:46] <ogra_> yes
[17:46] <ogra_> as i said
[17:47] <ogra_> there was an assumption that timedated needs it in the commit that adds it to writable-files ... pittis change will drop the code that creates it
[17:48] <ogra_> and pittis change is scheduled for monday ... so image 71 should not ship adjtime anymore
[17:51] <slangasek> ogra_: pitti's change moves the file to /etc/writable, which is *still wrong*
[17:51] <slangasek> we should find what *created* the file, and fix that
[17:51] <ogra_> slangasek, i'll talk to pitti then
[17:52] <ogra_> it wont be fixed befoe monday anyway
[17:58] <ogra_> slangasek, i'm pretty sure stgraber's touch initrd script touches /etc/adjtime if it doesnt exist but is in /etc/system-image/writable-paths
[17:59] <ogra_>                                        if [ ! -d "$dstpath" ]; then
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                 # Deal with redirected files
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                 if [ "$4" = "transition" ]; then
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                         cp -a $dstpath $srcpath
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                 else
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                         touch $srcpath
[17:59] <ogra_>                                                 fi
[17:59] <ogra_> thats the code doing it
[17:59] <ogra_> and the timestamp on the file in my  install agrees
[17:59] <stgraber> ogra_: nope
[18:00] <stgraber> ogra_: the initrd never has write access to / so if the file is not there, it may create it under /userdata but it certainly won't be able to create it under /etc
[18:00] <stgraber> ^ I rejected unity-scope-home because it's changing a translated string after UIF without an approved exception
[18:01] <ogra_> stgraber, well, i'm pretty sure that file was never there before i merged cwaynes MP
[18:01] <ogra_> which only added them to writable-paths
[18:01] <ogra_> stgraber, omg, really ?
[18:02] <stgraber> ogra_: what I pasted before was the output of a tar ztvf of the rootfs, and it clearly was in there :)
[18:02]  * ogra_ sighs that breaks the whole planning for touch :(
[18:02] <ogra_> (the home scope thing)
[18:02] <ogra_> stgraber, hmm, it definitely doesnt come from a package
[18:02] <stgraber> ogra_: sure why not, the package is in pretty much all our images, the only change was a string after the string freeze, so yes, perfectly matches the criteria for rejection
[18:03] <ogra_> and i surely havent added code to create it anywhere
[18:03] <ogra_> stgraber, oh, it was supposed ot have a fix ...
[18:03] <ogra_> *to
[18:03] <ogra_> yeah, i agree, if its only the string change that wouldnt have helped anyway :)
[18:04] <stgraber> yeah, it was the only change in there
[18:04] <stgraber> cdimage@nusakan:/srv/system-image.ubuntu.com$ tar ztvf /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/www/full/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/20130927/saucy-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz | grep adj
[18:04] <stgraber> -rw-r--r-- root/root        10 2013-09-27 08:15 etc/adjtime
[18:04] <stgraber> no idea where that's coming from, but something in the image build process sure generates the file ;)
[18:04] <ogra_> yeah
[18:04] <ogra_> well, its not in livecd-rootfs
[18:04] <stgraber> and that's before any of the system-image stuff ever runs :)
[18:06] <ogra_> hmpf
[18:07] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# grep /etc/adjtime /var/lib/dpkg/info/*
[18:07] <ogra_> /var/lib/dpkg/info/util-linux.postrm:		rm -f /etc/adjtime
[18:07] <ogra_> not from a postinst either
[18:09] <stgraber> so must be some command spawned from a postinst creating it then
[18:10] <stgraber> accepted the result of the autolanding stack. Unity had a pretty confusing changelog but the code changes look fine.
[18:10] <ogra_> stgraber, yay, thanks ...
[18:11]  * ogra_ waits for britney before spinning a new image
[18:15] <slangasek> ogra_: live-build scripts/build/lb_chroot_hacks.
[18:16] <ogra_> in live-build itself ?
[18:16] <slangasek> yes
[18:17] <ogra_> smells like a bug, why dont we have it in other builds ?
[18:18] <stgraber> I suspect we do in all desktop images
[18:18] <slangasek> yes
[18:18] <slangasek> but it's a bug that went under the radar before
[18:19] <stgraber> question is, why did dba think that was needed at all...
[18:19] <ogra_> \o/
[18:19] <slangasek> well, Debian does use /etc/adjtime.
[18:19] <slangasek> (it shouldn't, but the reasoning why is difficult to explain effectively so I haven't tried to get that change upstreamed)
[18:20] <stgraber> ah, didn't know that, so I guess we missed that difference when we rebased on the newer live-build?
[18:20] <stgraber> anyway, easy enough to fix for any new builds
[18:21] <slangasek> yes, uploading live-build now
[18:21] <stgraber> cool, I'll let it through when it's in the queue, maybe we'll have it in place before the next touch build then
[18:24] <ogra_> stgraber, i can wait :)
[18:24] <ogra_> touch is all manual ... from code commit to released image
[18:24] <stgraber> accepted
[18:42] <slangasek> stgraber: so did we come to any conclusion about packages seeded in "supported" for !Ubuntu?
[18:45] <stgraber> slangasek: I think I'd have to look at the json file to convince myself it's safe (as I'm not sure all ubuntu supported packages show up under ubuntu), I'd also probably want to make sure none of the existing flavours use supported in a way to indicate that those packages are things they care about and have documentation on but are post-install or language/region specific packages to be installed post-install
[18:45] <stgraber> so currently, status quo seems easier especially as we haven't seen a flood of those so far
[18:46] <slangasek> you're checking both seeds and packagesets, right?
[18:47] <slangasek> shouldn't "think we care about but is post-install" be in the packageset, even if it's not on the image?
[18:47] <slangasek> s/think/thing/
[18:47] <stgraber> it should, but the packagesets are generated from the seeds...
[18:47] <slangasek> hmm
[18:48] <stgraber> well, some/most flavours ones are, kylin is manual
[19:05] <ogra_> stgraber, oh, will writable-paths cope with the removal of adjtime ?
[19:05] <stgraber> yep, it should simply fail to bind mount and move on
[19:05] <ogra_> great
[19:06] <ogra_> go britney ... i know you can make it
[19:10] <slangasek> stgraber: and then we should follow through to remove adjtime handling from the writable-paths stuff as well, and make sure the file is correctly removed on upgrades
[19:11] <stgraber> slangasek: yeah, my debdiff for lxc-android-config already removes it from writable-paths so once that one land, we'll be good
[19:11] <slangasek> o
[19:11] <slangasek> k
[19:12] <stgraber> we won't need to do any removal on touch since the file will just go away in the next image, though we probably ought to for desktops
[19:12] <stgraber> not sure what's the best way of doing that though, adding an rm to some common package's postinst?
[19:14] <slangasek> probably util-linux, I'd guess
[19:14]  * ogra_ sees live-build vanish from britney ...
[19:14] <ogra_> yay
[19:15] <ogra_> time for an image then :)
[19:16] <stgraber> ogra_: did you see it publish (rmadison live-build)?
[19:16] <ogra_> stgraber, if it is gone from tehg excuses page its pretty sure in, no ?
[19:16] <ogra_> *the
[19:17] <stgraber> hmm, I guess it should yes, I tend not to trust that and always triple check with rmadison :) anyway, live-build is fully published, so go ahead
[19:18] <stgraber> (and since we moved the archive stuff to a new box, rmadison got much faster, so it's less of a pain to use nowadays)
[19:19] <ogra_> well, just using madison after apt-get update should do as well
[19:20] <ogra_> thats what i usually do
[20:20]  * stgraber takes lxc
[21:45] <stgraber> I'll take that one, sounds like a reasonable use of my last 15min of work for the day :)
[21:46] <stgraber> oh and it's an actual upload, not a sync, sweet!
[21:47] <stgraber> well, looks like I'll need to find something else to do before my EOD, that one was way easier to review than I expected ;)
[21:53] <slangasek> libhybris is in core?
[21:54] <stgraber> apparently
[21:54] <stgraber> also it seems to be building debs used by kubuntu, go figure
[21:54] <slangasek> er, um
[21:54] <stgraber> as in, daily-live, not supported :)
[21:56] <slangasek> pulseaudio depends on libhardware2
[21:56] <rsalveti> right
[21:57] <stgraber> that'd make sense if seeded-in-ubuntu would also list it for say, every other flavours :)
[21:57] <rsalveti> do I need to do anything to get libhybris released or just wait for it to be published?
[21:57] <stgraber> rsalveti: I accepted it in the archive, not sure if there's a block on it by the touch release team
[21:57] <rsalveti> are they doing armhf-based builds?
[21:57] <stgraber> ah, that might be it, yes
[21:58] <stgraber> yeah, kubuntu desktop builds on armhf
[21:58] <rsalveti> right, that's it then
[21:58] <stgraber> and I haven't been building edubuntu armhf in a long long time, so that's why it's not listed
[21:58] <rsalveti> pushing new gstreamer-bad in a few minutes as well
[22:00] <stgraber> so in theory, that means the FFe for libhybris in bug 1208989 isn't valid since some of the binaries are included in non-touch flavours, though that upload was a bugfix, so no problem with that.
[22:03] <stgraber> (and I'm not seeing any obvious feature addition since FFe for packages affecting the Kubuntu images)
[22:07] <slangasek> well, I wonder if that means the kubuntu desktop images don't actually have a working pulseaudio on armhf
[22:07] <slangasek> and whether anyone's tested that
[22:09] <stgraber> trying to get testing history data from the iso tracker to see if someone tested kubuntu desktop armhf lately
[22:09] <slangasek> the pulseaudio patches to *use* libhybris seem to have been added post-FF with no FFe bug
[22:09] <rsalveti> hm, not sure if that was added after FF
[22:10] <rsalveti> that was to add support for modem/pcm using the android hal
[22:10] <stgraber> no armhf desktop result for kubuntu since saucy opened apparently
[22:10] <slangasek> 1:4.0-0ubuntu2 says "add patches for Ubuntu Touch"... that's the earliest mention I can see
[22:12] <rsalveti> yeah, aug 27
[22:12] <rsalveti> that was the first one
[22:12] <slangasek> oh, two days before feature freeze, I see :-)
[22:13] <rsalveti> :-)
[22:14] <stgraber> still not ideal that non-touch flavours end up pulling that code too, can't that be done as a pulseaudio plugin in a separate package? (I have no idea how pulseaudio works besides the fact that it has modules ;))
[22:14] <rsalveti> probably, need to ping diwic next monday
[22:17] <rsalveti> someone? ^^ :-)
[22:18] <stgraber> that got auto-accepted
[22:18] <rsalveti> perfect
[22:18] <rsalveti> indeed
[22:18] <rsalveti> was thinking about the good subject
[22:18] <rsalveti> bad is not seeded
[22:18] <rsalveti> *subset
[23:04] <darkxst> have the ubuntu GNOME cron jobs been switched back on?
[23:05] <stgraber> no
[23:05] <stgraber> I guess we should do that for all the products
[23:05] <stgraber> let me do that quickly
[23:06] <stgraber> all done
[23:11] <darkxst> stgraber, thanks
[23:13] <ogra_> stgraber, did you leave touch on manual ?
[23:14] <stgraber> yep
[23:14] <ogra_> :)


[00:01] <sleezio> additional drivers > install driver for your card?
[01:04] <acro458> Why is my cursor blinking when watching videos on firefox!!??!!??!?!!? It doesnt happen on any other browser!
[09:44] <BigEars431> i wonder how these ubuntu flavors will be when Ubuntu Unity takes its "commercial steps"
[10:25] <Akif> How to remove xubuntu as dual boot with windows?
[10:25] <Akif> do I just expand from windows the partition over xubuntu?
[10:25] <Akif> installed new SSD and switching my dual boot there, keeping only windows on the old hard drive
[10:26] <elfy> so you want to keep xubuntu on the ssd
[10:26] <Akif> I dont have it on ssd yet
[10:26] <Akif> only windows
[10:26] <Akif> but I have windows/xubuntu dual boot on old hard drive
[10:26] <Akif> I dont need the xubuntu there so I'm removing it
[10:27] <Akif> but yeah, gonna install it on this ssd at some point
[10:27] <elfy> right - so remove the partition and then install to SSD, if you remove BEFORE you even have the ssd - then you'll need to reinstall the windows booloader I would expect
[10:28] <elfy> personally in that situation I would wait until I could do it all at once
[10:28] <Akif> sorry, I didn't kinda get it
[10:28] <elfy> :)
[10:28] <Akif> so I remove the xubuntu partition from windows
[10:29] <elfy> that makes no sense to me
[10:30] <elfy> if you remove the existing xubuntu - you have to deal with the bootloader - which will then have to be the windows one
[10:30] <elfy> when you later install xubuntu to the ssd - then it will install grub again
[10:30] <Akif> so I should first somehow change to bootloader to the default windows one?
[10:31] <elfy> yes - with whatever windows install/restore media you have
[10:31] <Akif> I see
[10:32] <Akif> I'll try the "repair" option from my windows 8.1 USB stick
[10:32] <elfy> I guess - no idea I'm afraid
[10:33] <elfy> plenty of windows help out there on that
[10:33] <Akif> yea, but thanks!
[10:34] <elfy> welcome :)
[10:35] <elfy> https://neosmart.net/wiki/fix-mbr/#Fix_the_MBR_in_Windows_8_or_81
[10:36] <elfy> as I said - personally I'dwait till I had the ssd for xubuntu and then not worry about that
[10:37] <Akif> alright
[11:24] <Zerkalerka> Hey I deleted the default panel that comes with xubuntu, is there a way to get it back?  Just purge the panel package and reinstall?
[11:25] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, you know what you deleted?  reinstall it.
[11:37] <Zerkalerka> Yeah I created some of my own panels, deleted the default, but my indicator plugin doesn't show FCITX anymore
[11:37] <Zerkalerka> so my FCITX is all messed up and no longer shows the table when I type in other languages
[11:37] <Zerkalerka> was working fine until I deleted the default panel
[11:37] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, what version of *buntu?
[11:37] <Zerkalerka> xubuntu 15.04
[11:38] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[11:38] <cfhowlett> that'll bring the default xubuntu packages
[11:38] <Zerkalerka> kk let me try it
[11:39] <Zerkalerka> just says xubuntu-desktop is already installed
[11:40] <Zerkalerka> i don't need to reset everything :P just the panel
[11:40] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, sudo apt-get install xfce4
[11:40] <cfhowlett> desktop environment
[11:40] <Zerkalerka> could i just remove xfce-panel and reinstall that?
[11:40] <Zerkalerka> xfce4-panel
[11:40] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, "could"?  I thought you DID
[11:41] <Zerkalerka> haha no, I mean in the panel properties
[11:41] <cfhowlett> dpkg -l | grep xfce*         will list your packages
[11:41] <Zerkalerka> i just deleted the default panel that comes inside , then created my own panels
[11:41] <Zerkalerka> i didn't remove the package
[11:41] <Zerkalerka> just when I was customizing the panel :P
[11:41] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, panel.  so you didn't remove packages
[11:42] <Zerkalerka> yeah, cause the indicator plugin no longer works properly
[11:42] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, removing and reinstalling xfce-panel will not restore your panels but ...
[11:42] <cfhowlett> nuclear option incoming
[11:42] <Zerkalerka> and it makes it so the FCITX no longer works
[11:42] <Zerkalerka> FCITX is the language input
[11:42] <Zerkalerka> love nuclear options :P
[11:43] <cfhowlett> delete your .hidden xfce configurations.  logout/logiin and it'll go back to factory fresh.
[11:43] <Zerkalerka> ahh good idea
[11:43] <Zerkalerka> they should be in home directory right
[11:43] <Zerkalerka> errno
[11:44] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, yeah.  You could go all out and delete all hidden .folders and .files
[11:45] <brainwash> only delete ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml
[11:45] <brainwash> and probably the content of ~/.config/xfce4/panel too
[11:46] <cfhowlett> ^^^^ Zerkalerka ^^^^
[11:46] <Zerkalerka> ok
[11:46] <Zerkalerka> then after that remove and install the xfce4-panel package to get default config back?
[11:47] <brainwash> no, relog
[11:48] <Zerkalerka> kk
[11:48] <Zerkalerka> brb
[11:51] <Zerkalerka> ok perfect that worked great, very strange though.. I relog in and FCITX is in the panel again.. and after about 3 seconds it just vanished
[11:55] <brainwash> can you restart it manually?
[11:56] <brainwash> the session log file may contain some hint
[11:56] <brainwash> look at ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> oh nice
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> restarting it
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> worked
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> i wonder if thats all I needed to do to make it work in the first place..
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> looool
[11:57] <Zerkalerka> never even thought of that
[11:58] <Zerkalerka> thank you for the help... was just having brain freeze on how to fix
[11:58] <brainwash> maybe some race condition on session start triggers this behavior
[11:59] <Zerkalerka> yah cause now in the settings of FCITX I can click on appearance and it allows me to edit it.. where as before it just said Kimpanel did not exsist
[12:00] <brainwash> FCITX does not seem to be widely used among Xubuntu users, so I haven't seen a bug report about such an issue yet
[12:00] <Zerkalerka> ohh everyone still using dbus? I thought I read something where in 15.04 xubuntu switched to fcitx
[12:01] <Zerkalerka> err ibus
[12:01] <brainwash> you mean ibus
[12:01] <brainwash> neither
[12:01] <brainwash> xubuntu got rid of ibus in 14.04
[12:01] <brainwash> without a real replacement
[12:02] <someone235> Hi, I followed this guide: http://kodi.wiki/view/Archive:HOW-TO:Set_up_audio_over_HDMI_on_nVidia_GeForce/nForce_controller but now I can have sound only on hdmi. Someone knows how to fix this?
[12:03] <Zerkalerka> ohh makes sense
[12:03] <Zerkalerka> ok thanks brainwash and cfhowlett
[12:03] <cfhowlett> Zerkalerka, happy2help!
[12:03] <brainwash> someone235: I suggest that you ask in #alsa and/or #pulseaudio
[12:05] <brainwash> someone235: there may be a working solution with pulseaudio
[15:25] <sleezio> ugh, installed 15.04 yesterday, nonstop freezing/crashing, went back to 14.10
[16:28] <lattice> does xubuntu support envent sounds ?
[16:31] <pontiki> wondering if anyone has installed xubuntu on a toshiba kirabook, or have heard about any issues with it
[16:34] <sleezio> lattice, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2156763
[16:34] <pencilandpaper> yes it does lattice .
[16:35] <pencilandpaper> if you go in to settings manager, its in either apperance, window mananger, or window manager tweaks.
[17:34] <pie_> How can I make boot faster?
[17:39] <baizon> pie_: which version of xubuntu?
[17:39] <baizon> with 15.04 and systemd my boot process is twice as fast :)
[17:40] <baizon> and my shutdown is 0.7 sec
[17:43] <pie_> hm, how do i make bootchart run? :/
[17:45] <pie_> hm i think i got it
[17:46] <Unit193> sudo systemd-analyze plot > system.svg
[17:47] <pie_> ah
[17:48] <pie_> oh right this is systemd now...
[17:48] <pie_> oooooh boy
[17:49] <Unit193> Or just do a systemd-analyze blame.
[17:50] <pie_> and how do i figure out what I need to speed up...?
[20:32] <sunrunner20> so, whenever I try to boot the latest LTS version of the ubuntu live cd on this machine it hangs at a black screen after GRUB
[20:32] <holstein> !nomodeset
[20:32] <sunrunner20> is there a list of troubleshooting steps/a way to show whats goin on
[20:32] <holstein> thats where i start.. ^ GPU driver
[20:34] <sunrunner20> i'll give it a whirl
[20:34] <holstein> i'll also simply try the different versions, live.. 15.04, for example.. and note kernel versions and drivers.. etc
[20:36] <sunrunner20> be back in a bit
[20:59] <sunrunner20> no dice holstein
[20:59] <holstein> sunrunner20: ?
[20:59] <sunrunner20> nomodeset didn't help
[20:59] <sunrunner20> neither did any of the acpi options
[21:00] <holstein> sunrunner20: are you saying, you tried nomodeset with the 14.04 live iso? and you still have a black screen?
[21:00] <sunrunner20> yup
[21:00] <sunrunner20> i see two lines of console text flick past too fast to see then nothing
[21:00] <holstein> anyways, depending on your history with that particular device, i would be checking that the hardware works.. i would test the memory, and see the GPU working in an officially supported OS
[21:00] <holstein> thenb, i might try installing the server version, or mini version
[21:00] <sunrunner20> i'm talking on that machine now :)
[21:00] <holstein> !mini
[21:01] <holstein> sunrunner20: sure, its just that, as a volunteer in the channel, i dont know what you are talking on, friend.. so, i can only give you suggestions..
[21:01] <holstein> do with them what you want
[21:01] <sunrunner20> didn't mean it that way
[21:01] <sunrunner20> i'll look into the gpu some more though
[21:01] <holstein> but, *if* you are satisfied that the hardware is not "broken", then, i would move on to getting *something* installed, and then, i could implement the vesa driver, if needed
[21:02] <holstein> your hardware doenst promise linux support, likely, so you can have a challenge in some cases implememting it
[21:03] <holstein> before i went too far, i would just try some live iso's.
[21:03] <sunrunner20> i've tried fedora's as well
[21:03] <sunrunner20> same issue
[21:03] <holstein> 15.04 has completely different drivers, and kernel..
[21:03] <sunrunner20> lemmie burn that then
[21:03] <holstein> sunrunner20: sure.. but, what im saying is, note the kernel version, and drivers..
[21:04] <holstein> sunrunner20: you *could* have likely tried the *same* linux.. in fedora and ubuntu
[21:04] <holstein> trying *different* drivers, in different kernels *can* in some cases support the hardware
[21:05] <holstein> could be, a proprietary driver is available that you can install from the terminal, after installing the OS, if you want to share what GPU hardware you have.. maybe a volunteer can parse if that is possible..
[21:05] <sunrunner20> its a gtx 960
[21:05] <sunrunner20> and I think that is the issue
[21:06] <sunrunner20> forum post says nomodeset worked  for them :\
[21:08] <sunrunner20> though "nouveau.blacklist=1" as a grub paramter might be part of it
[21:09] <holstein> sunrunner20: try iut
[21:09] <holstein> it*
[21:09] <holstein> sunrunner20: that *is* the issue as i see it.. your graphics hardware is not supporting linux
[23:33] <tiresias> hello
[23:34] <tiresias> my father has a problem under xubuntu : the buttons to reduce and close windows have disappear
[23:34] <tiresias> http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/795292DSC02577.jpg


[13:56] <webczat> Hey.
[17:04] <hajour> hi all i am not long around but just wanted to share this info.i go get help from netherlands members for the city hall project for people who are long without a job.
[17:04] <hajour> need to go eat so and pack my suitcase for uds
[17:41] <hajour> bye and for who go to uds till tomorrow :))


[01:56] <Nikonn> hi there
[03:21] <jesusemelendezm> hi Nikonn
[03:21] <jesusemelendezm> how are you ?
[03:22] <jesusemelendezm> Nikonn: hi