[09:55] <kraut> moin
[01:14] <ziroday> @schedule Singapore
[01:14] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 27 Sep 04:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting | 03 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 03 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers
[01:56] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[01:56] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 26 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
[03:12] <dthacker> @now
[03:12] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 26 2007, 13:12:08 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 6 hours 47 minutes
[03:12] <dthacker> @schedule Chicago
[03:12] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 10:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers
[04:59] <bryce_> morning
[05:00] <calc> there is a meeting here right now, correct?
[05:00] <evand> indeed
[05:00] <evand> or so says the email
[05:00] <calc> cjwatson: wake up ;)
[05:02] <cjwatson> hello, sorry I'm a bit late
[05:02] <seb128> ups, sorry I was on the wrong chan
[05:02] <ArneGoetje> hi all
[05:02] <calc> heh
[05:03] <cjwatson> (my stepson's cello lesson is just before this so travel is always rushed)
[05:03] <cjwatson> seb128: could you send your activity report?
[05:03] <seb128> cjwatson: sure, sorry I forgot it was one day earlier now
[05:03] <cjwatson> ok, I see no agenda items at the moment, so unless anyone has anything, the agenda is the beta release :)
[05:04] <cjwatson> slangasek is not here yet
[05:05] <doko> hmm, he was still awake this morning (UTC) ...
[05:05] <cjwatson> yeah, he was planning to make this AFAIK
[05:05] <cjwatson> has everyone here registered on iso.qa.stgraber.org for ISO testing work?
[05:06] <evand> yes
[05:06] <seb128> yes
[05:07] <ArneGoetje> yes
[05:07] <slangasek> (hmm, are we in here today?)
[05:07] <doko> doing ...
[05:07] <cjwatson> slangasek: yes, we alternate
[05:08] <cjwatson> 16:03 <cjwatson> ok, I see no agenda items at the moment, so unless anyone has anything, the agenda is the beta release :)
[05:08] <cjwatson> 16:05 <cjwatson> has everyone here registered on iso.qa.stgraber.org for ISO testing work?
[05:08] <slangasek> yes :)
[05:08] <cjwatson> at the moment, my understanding of the status is that we have probably-final images and are working our way through a test cycle
[05:08] <calc> i have a question about the iso tracker once it is the right time
[05:08] <bryce_> yep (I think)
[05:08] <cjwatson> there are most definitely known bugs
[05:08] <cjwatson> after we've got a plausible distance through a test cycle, we'll assess them
[05:08] <cjwatson> calc: go ahead
[05:09] <calc> ubuntu alternate amd64 lists like 14 bug icons but if you drill down you only see one bug
[05:09] <calc> any idea about what causes that?
[05:09] <cjwatson> calc: I think that's just confusing table display; the icons are actually attached to i386
[05:09] <asac> hi
[05:09] <cjwatson> if you hover over the row, the background colour changes, which helps to see
[05:10] <calc> cjwatson: oh ok
[05:11] <cjwatson> the bug colours are a touch random
[05:11] <cjwatson> (as in, submitter-determined)
[05:11] <cjwatson> so they still need to be assessed by hand
[05:11] <pitti> hi! sorry, missed cjwatson's ping for some minutes
[05:12] <cjwatson> pitti: could you give us a quick rundown of beta status, including where help is currently needed?
[05:12] <cjwatson> slangasek: you too though I expect you're still catching up on the night
[05:12] <pitti> things are looking quite well so far for ubuntu/kubuntu, and I expect that those images will be final (xubuntu, too)
[05:13] <pitti> edubuntu alternates need urgent testing, since they were rebuilt recently for high-prio fixes
[05:13] <pitti> also, we need a cooperative effort to brush up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Beta
[05:13] <ogra> i'm running a virtualbox install atm ... but its darn slow
[05:13] <pitti> I think I have a reasonable skeleton now, but it could use some more love
[05:14] <pitti> and I need someone with a feisty vmware/real installation to verify bug #127263
[05:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127263 in update-manager "update-manager cannot find meta-release info" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127263
[05:14] <ogra> there is this gnome feature to leave messages on a locked screensaver session ... should we add that ?
[05:14] <pitti> i. e. we need to get the feisty-proposed u-m to -updates ASAP, so that people who upgrade tomorrow have a much better chance to succeed
[05:14] <ogra> (do we list new upstream featres here ?)
[05:14] <pitti> and we do not have wiki pages for server/kubuntu/edubuntu yet
[05:15] <bryce_> pitti, is Caveats where we put stuff that no longer works (e.g. xinerama with certain drivers now using xrandr 1.2)
[05:15] <pitti> the one major issue I see on the desktop CDs so far are unionfs crashes
[05:15] <doko> pitti: the family name of your girlfriend^Wwife seems to be wrong in the screenshot ;)
[05:15] <pitti> but nothing we can do about them any more, I figure
[05:15] <pitti> doko: yep, I noticed :)
[05:15] <cjwatson> bryce_: that sounds useful, though written in user-friendly language of course
[05:15] <evand> pitti: unionfs crashes still?
[05:15] <Riddell> pitti: Kubuntu has one (it just doesn't have anything much on it yet)
[05:15] <cjwatson> pitti: please get in touch with the kernel team about that ASAP
[05:15] <evand> I thought that was fixed for good?
[05:15] <pitti> bryce_: it's usually meant to mention high-impact bugs and their workarounds, so yes
[05:15] <ogra> evand, see the isotracker
[05:15] <bryce_> also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes
[05:16] <cjwatson> this is the first time I've heard confirmation that that's still outstanding
[05:16] <ogra> evand, the bugs are linked there
[05:16] <evand> ogra: thanks
[05:16] <pitti> cjwatson: different types of crashes, it got much better with the last versions, but I heard various reports still
[05:16] <ogra> i didnt see any on edubuntu though
[05:16] <pitti> ogra: stgraber had a few
[05:16] <ogra> yeah, heard that
[05:16] <pitti> they were perfect for me, too
[05:16] <cjwatson> it's clearly a set of races so won't happen to everyone
[05:17] <cjwatson> it could easily depend on e.g. CD read speed
[05:17] <pitti> it's a level we can live with for beta, I think
[05:17] <bryce_> yeah so I'll describe it as "New dynamic screen configuration", etc.
[05:17] <cjwatson> the other major thing I want to talk about is beta bugs
[05:17] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-beta
[05:17] <dholbach> cjwatson: asac's offline, he just called me
[05:17] <pitti> bryce_: there's already a displayconfig-gtk section, feel free to brush up the language, and maybe make the screenshot smaller if possible
[05:17] <cjwatson> there are a *lot* of them, most of which are clearly not going to be fixed now
[05:17] <dholbach> he tries to be back soon
[05:17] <cjwatson> dholbach: thanks
[05:17] <pitti> right
[05:18] <dholbach> de rien
[05:18] <pitti> this list can be pretty much considered as 'stuff we want to fix for final'
[05:18] <cjwatson> of course those now need to be targeted for rc (there's an ubuntu-7.10-rc milestone now)
[05:18] <bryce_> pitti, will do; unfortunately displayconfig-gtk only works for the old xinerama case (glatzor will be working on xrandr'ing it for hardy)
[05:18] <pitti> so far I did not see any bug which would warrant stalling the beta release
[05:18] <cjwatson> but if there is anything in that list which really is beta-critical that you know about, you need to speak up *now*
[05:19] <cjwatson> I'm sure the release team would appreciate it if you would retarget your own bugs to -rc as necessary, to save them having to go through all couple of hundred of them
[05:19] <pitti> ogra: messages on screensaver> not 'visible' enough for the wiki page, I think
[05:19] <asac_> cjwatson: is there a rc target available now in malone?
[05:19] <cjwatson> for the next few weeks, we all need to be concentrating on squashing that bug list, unless you have anything that's explicitly higher priority
[05:19] <cjwatson> asac_: yes, ubuntu-7.10-rc
[05:19] <pitti> asac_: yes
[05:19] <ogra> pitti, ok
[05:19] <cjwatson> I created it the other day
[05:20] <cjwatson> I would like to ask that all of you list the status of your release-critical bugs in your activity reports, and any bugs you've fixed recently
[05:20] <cjwatson> s/any bugs/any RC bugs/
[05:20] <slangasek> pitti seems to have covered the status pretty well; barring any OMG bugs, the main tasks remaining between now and the release are the ISO testing to make sure we find any OMG bugs that are out there, and getting the wiki documentation into shape (release notes, feisty upgrade documentation)
[05:21] <slangasek> sorry, between now and the beta release that is
[05:21] <cjwatson> this is (a) to make sure we all think about them once a week and defer anything that's not really critical :-) (b) so that we have a good e-mail summary without having to click through all the bugs
[05:21] <pitti> oh, just one thing:
[05:21] <pitti> if you want feedback from ~ubuntu-release, please make sure that this team is subscribed
[05:21] <pitti> I read those bugs with high priority, and so is slangasek, I think
[05:22] <slangasek> yes
[05:22] <pitti> I cannot poll through all of them every day to search for questions
[05:22] <cjwatson> if you need to ask the release team questions in real time, #ubuntu-release is open (though we'd like it to be mostly release coordination)
[05:23] <pitti> together, slangasek and I provide pretty much 24/7 online coverage, so you should get answers very quickly at any time
[05:23] <pitti> well, 24/5 at any rate
[05:23] <slangasek> :)
[05:23] <pitti> and some email on the weekend :)
[05:24] <cjwatson> slangasek mentioned the release notes
[05:24] <pitti> slangasek: did you get feedback from Matt and ubuntu-doc@ already?
[05:24] <cjwatson> as pitti said, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Beta is there
[05:24] <slangasek> pitti: no, none
[05:24] <cjwatson> but please take a look at it and fill in anything you know about
[05:24] <slangasek> but if mdz is on PDT right now, I wouldn't expect any from him yet
[05:25] <cjwatson> slangasek: apparently I was slightly out of date, and he's just got back to London
[05:25] <slangasek> ok
[05:25] <doko> how's cd space on the i386/amd64 images, would it still be possible to replace gij with icedtea at this point?
[05:25] <cjwatson> when I spoke to him a few hours ago he was planning to head into the office soon
[05:25] <cjwatson> doko: I hope that's post-beta?
[05:25] <Riddell> doko: is icedtea in the archive?
[05:25] <doko> cjwatson: post-beta, sure
[05:25] <pitti> doko: alternates: absolutely overflown, we already cut off some good flesh to make room for the ever-growing OO.o
[05:26] <doko> Riddell: no, see the URL in my emails
[05:26] <pitti> doko: desktops are pretty much full
[05:26] <Riddell> right
[05:26] <pitti> doko: what's the size impact?
[05:26] <doko> +15mb
[05:26] <cjwatson> calc: any time you can spare from bug fixing to cut down OO.o's size further would be appreciated
[05:26] <Riddell> erk
[05:26] <pitti> the one in unapproved should cut down size by some 5 MB
[05:26] <calc> cjwatson: will do my best
[05:27] <pitti> but it was too risky to let it through for beta
[05:27] <calc> i'll be getting a final oo.o into gutsy probably around friday once i get the translations from carlos
[05:27] <doko> could we do a duplicates analysis for the CD to look for some low hanging fruit?
[05:27] <pitti> but once this version hits, I need to add back ooo-base, so that the net effect is zero
[05:27] <calc> or hopefully final anyway
[05:27] <cjwatson> calc: final upstream, but you probably ought to have something to do for the next couple of weeks until release :-)
[05:28] <calc> cjwatson: true :)
[05:28] <pitti> unless we decide to permanently install only a subset of OO.o by default, of course
[05:28] <cjwatson> doko: I think that would be a good idea; would you do a quick initial pass?
[05:28] <calc> cjwatson: meaning hopefully final as in i won't find any more major bugs ;)
[05:28] <cjwatson> and we can see who needs to pick up the rest
[05:28] <calc> cjwatson: then i could work on testing other rc bugs etc
[05:28] <pitti> doko: there might be something to be cut off from changelogs
[05:28] <cjwatson> doko: (as in a quick report, not all the work of fixing it)
[05:28] <mdz> slangasek: I'm back on BST
[05:29] <pitti> what would icedtea give us feature-wise?
[05:29] <pitti> 15 MB is quite a high price to pay
[05:29] <calc> we could go to 90min cds ;)
[05:29] <slangasek> mdz: noted, cheers
[05:29] <doko> cjwatson: ok, will prepare that this week. can I trust the link count on the live CD?
[05:29] <pitti> and right now we basically don't ship any translations at all, whick sucks, too
[05:29] <doko> pitti: working OOo-Base
[05:30] <pitti> doko: (NB that alternates are more pressing)
[05:30] <cjwatson> doko: hmm, I'm not certain
[05:30] <pitti> doko: oh, doesn't it ATM?
[05:30] <cjwatson> it should be straightforward to test
[05:30] <mdz> slangasek: I have your email.  usually the most efficient way to do this is to put your draft into the wiki, where others can make minor tweaks without a round trip to you
[05:30] <doko> ohh, and working java plugin for the browser
[05:30] <calc> doko: it seems to more or less work now, but would work more reliably with icedtea, yea
[05:30] <doko> calc: even the form wizard?
[05:30] <calc> pitti: icedtea is the free version of sun java
[05:30] <calc> doko: i believe so last i looked at it
[05:32] <doko> cjwatson, pitti: for the duplicates scan: could you just run this before creating the live CD image?
[05:32] <pitti> hm, would it be possible to drop -base from the default install in a sane way, so that installing it will pull icedtea and friends from the network sources?
[05:32] <cjwatson> doko: yes, that could be done; an upload of the livecd-rootfs package would be enough to arrange that, and can be done by anyone in core-dev
[05:33] <pitti> doko: that won't help us for alternates, though, right?
[05:33] <cjwatson> pitti: the result ought to be close enough
[05:33] <cjwatson> it doesn't need to be 100% accurate
[05:33] <doko> pitti: the results should be the same
[05:33] <pitti> ah, just for identifying, not for actually merging them
[05:33] <calc> doko: yea base form wizard works for me, for whatever reason, it didn't work for me in the past (several months ago) though anyway
[05:33] <pitti> right
[05:33] <cjwatson> pitti: yes, uploads would be needed to symlink them together
[05:33] <slangasek> mdz: ok, plain text dumped into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/BetaAnnouncement
[05:34] <cjwatson> ok, if everyone understands what the priorities are for beta and for the next few weeks, is there any other business?
[05:35] <bryce_> bugz bugz bugz :-)
[05:35] <pitti> let's rock da house
[05:35] <doko> do uploads to gutsy need approvals, or should we peer-review things before they are uploaded?
[05:36] <pitti> post-beta we are in normal FF state again
[05:36] <pitti> but of course you should be extra careful now
[05:36] <pitti> we'll have a considerate user base after beta
[05:36] <pitti> considerable, even
[05:36] <cjwatson> and possibly inconsiderate :-)
[05:37] <pitti> Inglisch is hard
[05:37] <mdz> slangasek: oop, too late, I already replied with comments
[05:37] <pitti> so, peer-reviews are a good idea when you can afford them
[05:37] <slangasek> mdz: fine :)
[05:38] <pitti> or using PPAs for testing bigger changes
[05:39] <cjwatson> ok, that's a wrap then, thanks all
[05:39] <seb128> thanks cjwatson
[05:39] <cjwatson> go forth and fix bugs
[05:39] <pitti> thanks all
[05:39] <cjwatson> pitti: thanks for stepping by
[05:40] <pitti> you're welcome
[05:40] <pitti> GO UBUNTU GO!
[05:40] <asac> thanks
[05:40] <evand> thanks
[05:40] <ogra> thanks for all the nice RM work
[05:40] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[05:41] <slangasek> thanks
[05:43] <dholbach> ROCK
[05:57] <slangasek> mdz: supposing we are the first to ship with gnash (I don't know the answer to that yet), how should that be phrased?
[05:58] <ogra> we're providing the latest leading technology of free flash support ?
[05:58] <slangasek> we could presumably say that even if we weren't first :)
[05:59] <mc44> "First!"
[05:59] <cjwatson> slangasek: for compiz, something involving the words "desktop effects" would be good in the early para
[06:00] <mdz> slangasek: maybe get ideas from canonical marketing or the marketing team for the language; the message should be that we are putting the best open source software in the hands of our users, which for the first time includes Flash functionality
[06:00] <slangasek> ok
[06:00] <mdz> slangasek: the fact that it works on amd64 is of particular interest, since Adobe's doesn't
[06:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: mdz's suggested remedy was "features a cutting-edge graphical experience based on the Compiz compositing window manager", "desktop effects" still needed?
[06:02] <cjwatson> I'm definitely not keen on that text for presentation to people who have no idea what a window manager is
[06:02] <cjwatson> "features a cutting-edge graphical experience with composited desktop effects" perhaps?
[06:02] <cjwatson> "composited" is at least jargon in other fields as well
[06:03] <cjwatson> still sets off my bullshit-o-meter something chronic :)
[06:03] <slangasek> leaving out the name "Compiz" there?
[06:03] <cjwatson> I think it's good to mention Compiz somewhere so that that project feels credited
[06:03] <mdz> agreed
[06:03] <cjwatson> but not in the first paragraph
[06:04] <slangasek> ok, it is mentioned below
[06:04] <cjwatson> the feature is "desktop effects", Compiz is the implementation of it
[10:03] <juliux> hi ogra
[10:03] <stgraber> hi
[10:04] <sbalneav> Hey!  Meeting now?
[10:06] <RichEd> hi ...
[10:06] <RichEd> let's kick off then ...
[10:06] <RichEd> ogra: technical
[10:07] <ogra> well
[10:07] <ogra> beta is tomorrow
[10:07] <ogra> the isos were in a very bad condition when beta freeze came into effect
[10:07] <ogra> due to various breakages they couldnt be tested fro quite some time either
[10:08] <ogra> so since monday i'm whilrling to get them in shape ....
[10:09] <ogra> big kudos and a hug from everyone to pitti, he helped a lot on the archive/iso building side as release manager
[10:09] <ogra> moodle was added to the CD
[10:09] <ogra> sadly its to late for proper installer integration
[10:09] <sbalneav> Yay for moodle
[10:10] <ogra> it asks way to many questions and actually breaks the install completely
[10:10] <ogra> i had to take it out of the install again
[10:10] <ogra> but we ship it on the CD and will have a wikipage with install instructions for gutsy
[10:10] <sbalneav> Hey, it's a start.
[10:10] <sbalneav> We'll nail it next time.
[10:11] <ogra> in hardy we can then work out a proper perseed file for it and have it only ask one or two questions (instead of 10)
[10:11] <RichEd> ogra: at least it is an "official app" ... gives them and us credibility
[10:11] <ogra> the CD were so oversized that all remaining edu apps had to move to addon
[10:11] <ogra> so we ship a pretty spare desktop on the server CD now
[10:11] <ogra> *sparse
[10:12] <ogra> the ltsp installer integration is aprantly completely broken ... it worked fine in my test environment but i had no chance to test it in the real installer environment until beta freeze was there
[10:13] <sbalneav> Should we basically say that it's a 2 cd server set?
[10:13] <ogra> it took me the last 36h to get all the issues sorted in a way that at least the installer finishes
[10:13] <ogra> sbalneav, thast what we say already
[10:14] <ogra> hmm, he wanted to be here
[10:14] <RichEd> ogra: 2 cds for server and apps ... 1 cd for just the server ... no ?
[10:14] <sbalneav> Well, no, it's more like "The server cd, and the addon cd"
[10:14] <ogra> laserjock wanted to suggest renaming of the addon CDs
[10:14] <sbalneav> which in my opinion might be confusing to some.
[10:14] <RichEd> if someone wanted e.g  just a moodle resource server, they'd just go with 1CD ?
[10:15] <ogra> i dont really agree with him here, since addon might need dependencies from the server CD  we shouldnt suggest people to install it anywhere else than on a edubuntu-desktop
[10:15] <ogra> so they need to be tied together very closely by naming imho
[10:16] <ogra> RichEd, yes, CD1 will have everything you need for a moodle server
[10:17] <ogra> for a plain moodle server, pick "install a commandline system" in the CD menu and run apt-get install moodle postgresql apache-mpm-prefork on that system while CD is in the tray
[10:17] <RichEd> was just a comment re sbalneav comment ... as an example that it is a 1CD server at times ... not a 2CD set for all requirements
[10:17] <ogra> (thats actually all you need)
[10:18] <ogra> 2CD is neededfor alleducational desktop stuff
[10:18] <ogra> we'll hopefully have an option for "moodle server" as well as "central auth server" in hardy
[10:19] <ogra> so CD1 wont exclusively be an ltsp or edubuntu cd anymore but have a bunch of other customized server stuff
[10:19] <ogra> (which doesnt mean we'll not have ltsp ;) but it will only be one option )
[10:21] <ogra> so all in all this iso is the worst crap i've ever released for edubuntu
[10:22] <stgraber> hmm, I'm not sure that this network problem is really edubuntu related, then the only remaining problem is the ssh known_hosts
[10:22] <ogra> i'm pretty mortified about that thing and hope i find the time to get at least the worst stuff fixed for final
[10:22] <ogra> which we just solved in #edubuntu :)
[10:25] <ogra> pitti just informed me that we likely wont have dvds either
[10:25] <ogra> due to oversizedness
[10:27] <ogra> anyway, thats my report
[10:27] <ogra> looking ad ... hardly getting better due to missing time
[10:27] <ogra> s/ad/bad/
[10:30] <sbalneav> Anything I can help with?
[10:30] <ogra> not really, mainly installer stuff
[10:30] <ogra> for testing i can always need help :)
[10:31] <sbalneav> I, of course, will help with testing once we get some images.
[10:31] <ogra> well, the current ones are "fine"
[10:32] <ogra> read them as extra bold
[10:33] <ogra> well, beyond that i'm working on a gutsy classmate image from next week on
[10:33] <ogra> now that we have a working -desktop CD i can base that on
[10:34] <ogra> -desktop isnt affected by all the above btw and looks good
[10:40] <sbalneav> cool
[10:40] <sbalneav> *bold*?
[10:40] <sbalneav> Works in irssi :)
[10:41] <ogra> *bold*
[10:41] <ogra> not here
[10:41] <ogra> anyway, sorry for being so quite but i'm discuzssing bugs in other channels
[10:46] <ogra> ok, thats all for tech for now ...
[10:46] <ogra> RichEd, anything from your side ?
[10:46] <RichEd> not very much at the moment ...
[10:47] <RichEd> getting the beta out is the main priority though ...
[10:48] <RichEd> no pips1 for community / web sites ...
[10:48] <RichEd> any other items from your side ogra ?
[10:48] <RichEd> documetation ?
[10:49] <RichEd> artwork ?
[10:49] <RichEd> documentation rather
[10:49] <ogra> documentation is done thanks to sbalneav
[10:49] <ogra> edubuntu-docs is in and has the handbook
[10:50] <ogra> due to a breakage in yelp (i was told mdke would work on it) it doesnt show up anywhere
[10:50] <ogra> you find it if you search it though
[10:57] <sbalneav> Who's putting the apple on their head? :)
[10:57] <sbalneav> hooooold stiiiiiillllll......
[10:58] <sbalneav> twang
[10:58] <ogra> doesnt matter, my day cant get worse
[10:58] <sbalneav> lol
[10:58] <RichEd> well do we have any other matters, or else let's free both of you up for some fixing & tweaking
[10:59] <sbalneav> Have a snooze
[10:59] <ogra> RichEd, you could ask jill for a widescreen pic
[10:59] <ogra> just remembered that ...
[11:00] <RichEd> will send a mail right now
[11:00] <ogra> having something i dont have to squeeze and mangle for the classmate would be fine
[11:00] <ogra> no idea what size we need though
[11:00] <ogra> 1280x800should be fine i think
[11:01] <ogra> sad, highvoltage isnt around
[11:01] <ogra> he blogged about jill and the new wallpaper :)
[11:01] <RichEd> i'll ask her ... should be an interesting exercise to change an existing one into the wider screen ratio
[11:01] <RichEd> slight design challenge ...
[11:01] <ogra> its not mandatory ... a nice to have ...
[11:01] <ogra> but would be cool to have :)
[11:02] <RichEd> i'll ask her ... she seems keen ... and it will look good for the classmate demos
[11:07] <RichEd> well let's bring out the gong ...
[11:07] <RichEd> edubuntu meeting going ONCE ?
[11:07] <ogra> twice
[11:07] <ogra> adjourned ?
[11:08] <RichEd> done ...
[11:08] <RichEd> thanks all
[11:08] <ogra> :)
[11:08] <Meshezabeel> thanks for all your hard work everyone! :)
[11:09] <RichEd> and a + each for ogra, sbalneav and stgraber
[11:09] <ogra> :)
[11:09] <ogra> Meshezabeel, thanks for attending :)
[11:09] <stgraber> :)
[11:26] <b4ckd00r_chr1s> Ex-chat


[00:12] <gry> hi purplelightning
[00:17] <purplelightning> hi gry
[00:24] <gry> is it your first time here?
[01:01] <purplelightning> yes
[01:11] <gry> nice. i just came in december last year. also very new here.
[01:11] <gry> i use an ubuntu computer at home to read ebooks and do homework.
[02:55] <muscles> yes gry
[02:55] <muscles> i use ubuntu studio
[03:41] <gry> nice. do you edit or watch movies?


[00:04] <Overand> Anyone with any ideas on how to fire off a script based on if rsync does - or doesn't - update any files?
[00:10] <detrix42> I am trying to set up my server.  everything is going well, except...when I try to view  <?php phpinfo() ?> in my test index.html page, I don't get the phpinfo.  need help figuring out why.
[00:39] <keyboarddrummer> hello.  sorry for asking such a basic question, but how do you update packages in 10.04?
[00:41] <nealmcb> keyboarddrummer: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade
[00:41] <detrix42> I am trying to set up my server.  everything is going well, except...when I try to view  <?php phpinfo() ?> in my test index.html page, I don't get the phpinfo.  need help figuring out why.
[00:42] <nealmcb> detrix42: did you look at the log file?
[00:42] <nealmcb> is php installed?
[00:43] <detrix42> sorry for the delay.... nealmcb, which log file?
[00:43] <detrix42> I am fairly new at this
[00:44] <detrix42> the server stuff that is
[00:44] <detrix42> nealmcb: and yes php5 is installed
[00:45] <nealmcb> detrix42: did you use a guide or tutorial somewhere that you can refer to?
[00:45] <detrix42> nealmcb: yes, the ubuntu site guide.
[00:46] <nealmcb> detrix42: the apache log file - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxLogFiles
[00:46] <nealmcb> detrix42: and what exactly DO you get?
[00:46] <qman__> detrix42, php only works in files named .php
[00:46] <qman__> .html files won't be processed
[00:47] <nealmcb> (unless you configure it otherwise?)
[00:47] <detrix42> ahhhh....hold on a sec.
[00:47] <qman__> yes
[00:50] <detrix42> ok. that was the missing link.  but when I mv index.html index.php it defaulted to index.html and got one.  there should not have been one after I renamed it.
[00:51] <detrix42> I did get it to work, but specifing index.php
[00:52] <qman__> sure it wasn't your browser caching it?
[00:52] <qman__> index.php should also render as the default site page
[00:52] <detrix42> hey thanx for all the excellent help
[00:52] <detrix42> it might have been a cached page
[00:53] <detrix42> I will know in a few when I try to access it from my laptop
[00:53] <detrix42> Thanx again.
[00:54] <detrix42> see ya
[02:03] <Andre_Gondim> in ubuntu server kernel uses OCS or CFS scalonator?
[02:03] <Andre_Gondim> in ubuntu server kernel uses OCS or CFS scalonator kernel
[02:23] <maruq> hi guys.
[02:23] <maruq> according to press release (http://www.canonical.com/news/ubuntu-10.10-server), it's possible to run AMIs offline in KVM. anyone know how to do it?
[02:24] <maruq> can't find any docs on the server / cloud pages
[02:52] <jeeves_moss> how come this script is only getting the index.html pages and not reading through them or spydering them to pull just the images out of it?  http://pastebin.ca/1959717
[03:48] <detrix> hi, I am fairly new to setting up servers.  I need help setting up bind9.  I am trying to follow some howto's but they are somewhat confusing.  anyone here care to help me with this?
[03:48] <RCola> whats the issue?
[03:48] <RCola> you got any errors?
[03:49] <detrix> no not yes....just trying to follow the online howto's but I am starting to get confused......I need help setting up the config files.
[03:50] <detrix> is there a utility to aid in this
[03:50] <RCola> well #1 are you trying to do it as a resolver as well?
[03:50] <detrix> I believe so
[03:51] <RCola> pm me and we'll talk more.
[04:03] <ScottK> detrix: If you look at the Ubuntu Server guide (link in /topic) it has bind9 setup that's been validated on Ubuntu for many common situations.
[04:07] <jeeves_moss> why is this script not pulling JUST the images from the list of URLs in the text file?  http://pastebin.ca/1959756  it will d-load the index.html file, then finish
[04:10] <jeeves_moss> RCola, why is this script not pulling JUST the images from the list of URLs in the text file?  http://pastebin.ca/1959756  it will d-load the index.html file, then finish
[04:52] <MrDowntempo> Hi All! I'm building my first Ubuntu Server with 10.10 32bit. But I'm having a bit o' trouble.
[04:52] <MrDowntempo> The Install fails after creating the file system
[04:52] <MrDowntempo> everytime. No matter if I pick ext2, ext4 or reiserfs
[04:54] <|rt|> MrDowntempo: no idea if this is what you're running into but I had that happened to me a while back due to a bad hard drive
[04:55] <MrDowntempo> |rt|, well its a brand new drive, but its an SSD not a HDD
[04:55] <MrDowntempo> Does ubuntu server not know how to deal with its boot sector?
[04:56] <MrDowntempo> or something like that?
[04:57] <|rt|> MrDowntempo: I've never installed on an SSD but I don't think that would be the problem
[04:57] <|rt|> how far along in the install does it get?
[04:57] <MrDowntempo> Up to creating the file system
[04:57] <|rt|> in my case it would always get about 80% through installing before it would start erroring
[04:57] <MrDowntempo> It patitions fine
[04:57] <MrDowntempo> I think.
[04:58] <MrDowntempo> Also I was able to install Arch on the same drive earlier that day
[04:59] <|rt|> anything in dmesg?
[05:04] <MrDowntempo> Hehe, not at the moment. Im running off a live disc on the same machine right now
[05:05] <MrDowntempo> What should I look for in there?
[05:08] <|rt|> MrDowntempo: any errors that my point to what the issue is
[05:09] <|rt|> you would need to try to install it and then when it errors look to see what the recent dmesg entries have to say....may provide a clue....may not
[05:09] <|rt|> anyhow...time for bed for me
[06:20] <billybigrigger> is anyone alive to help me through a borked upgrade?
[06:24] <soren> !ask
[06:25] <Pwndeur> ayahhhhhhhhhhhh !
[06:25] <billybigrigger> ok well just seeing if anyone is alive...im going to login to my server and see if i can pull up a log or something to help me out with the question...
[06:25] <Pwndeur> uh
[06:26] <Pwndeur> a question ?
[06:26] <Pwndeur> beer or not beer that is the question =)
[06:27] <billybigrigger> basically, i was uprgrading a 10.04 system to 10.10, i followed the upgrade procedures, and when it came time to replace a packge, it ask me if i wanted to accept, keep installed version, show differences, or something....so i chose to read through the differences...when i got to the end of the file...i stupidly hit ctrl-z ending the process...now when i tried do-release-upgrade -d again, it says there's nothing to upgrade
[06:27] <billybigrigger> i haven't done anything since...and no i don't have a backup....what would my safest option be?
[06:28] <billybigrigger> the upgrade packages where all downloaded, and aptitude was already starting to update the packages...
[06:28] <soren> billybigrigger: ctrl-z doesn't end the process.
[06:28] <soren> billybigrigger: It pauses it.
[06:28] <billybigrigger> well the process isn't there anymore according to top
[06:28] <soren> billybigrigger: Which process?
[06:29] <billybigrigger> well aptitude would be running im assuming no?
[06:29] <soren> billybigrigger: I wouldn't know. Did you use aptitide to do the upgrade?
[06:29] <soren> aptitude.
[06:29] <billybigrigger> do-release-upgrade -d
[06:29] <billybigrigger> which initiates apt or aptitude yes?
[06:30] <soren> not aptitude.
[06:30] <soren> for sure.
[06:30] <billybigrigger> ok well i'll pastebin /var/log/dist-upgrade/apt.log
[06:31] <billybigrigger> hmm looking through it it doesn't look helpful at all
[06:31] <soren> Look, if you ctrl-z'ed it, it's just paused.
[06:31] <soren> In the same terminal, just run "fg" and see what happens.
[06:31] <billybigrigger> ok how do i resume it?
[06:31] <billybigrigger> that term session has ended
[06:32] <soren> Ok, then it's gone.
[06:32] <soren> Just try a good old "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade", then.
[06:33] <billybigrigger> billybigrigger@timmy:~$ fg
[06:33] <billybigrigger> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[06:33] <billybigrigger>
[06:33] <billybigrigger> now im just sitting there with a cursor
[06:33] <soren> You just said the term session had ended?!?
[06:33] <billybigrigger> yes
[06:33] <soren> "yes"?
[06:34] <billybigrigger> ok, the server is on a VPS, linode.com...i'm using it's ajax based remote console, as a dist-upgrade via ssh is not suggested...
[06:34] <billybigrigger> so i fired up the remote console again and my past error msgs are still there...so i guess technically that session didn't end
[06:35] <soren> Ok.
[06:36] <soren> What happens if you press return?
[06:36] <billybigrigger> shal i try "a good old sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" then or what?
[06:36] <soren> No.
[06:36] <billybigrigger> hah shit
[06:37] <billybigrigger> billybigrigger@timmy:~$ fg
[06:37] <billybigrigger> -bash: fg: current: no such job
[06:38] <billybigrigger> ok well sudo apt-get dist-upgrade it is
[06:39] <soren> Wha..
[06:39] <soren> Did you just make this up:
[06:39] <soren> 05:33 < billybigrigger> billybigrigger@timmy:~$ fg
[06:39] <soren> 05:33 < billybigrigger> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[06:39] <soren> ?
[06:41] <billybigrigger> nope
[06:41] <billybigrigger> it was there
[06:41] <billybigrigger> i ctrl-c'd out to do the dist-upgrade
[06:41] <billybigrigger> so the process was paused, and i killed it :(
[06:42]  * soren gives up
[06:44] <billybigrigger> ok so again i say....
[06:44] <billybigrigger> ok well sudo apt-get dist-upgrade it is
[06:44] <billybigrigger> hope this works
[06:46] <billybigrigger> soren: ....
[06:46] <billybigrigger> billybigrigger@timmy:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[06:46] <billybigrigger> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[06:46] <billybigrigger> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[06:46] <billybigrigger> you think that my upgrade process is still running? i don't see it in ps aux output
[06:46] <soren> billybigrigger: I don't know. You only tell me half of everything.
[06:47] <soren> I can't help you this way.
[06:48] <RudyValencia> How do you upgrade a package?
[06:48] <billybigrigger> well what do you want to know?
[06:48] <RudyValencia> I forget
[06:51] <billybigrigger> soren: ? what more do you want to know
[06:52] <soren> billybigrigger: I don't know.
[06:53] <soren> billybigrigger: When for instance you say that your term session has ended, I didn't know to ask "Hey, dude, is this perhaps Linode's ajaxterm, so it might still be alive even though you restarted your web browser?".
[06:54] <soren> billybigrigger: I also didn't know to ask if you thought it would be fun to ctrl-c your way out of do-release-upgrade.
[06:54] <billybigrigger> well you told me to do a good old sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[06:54] <billybigrigger> so what was i supposed to do?
[06:55] <soren> billybigrigger: I also would have never guessed that when you say that the upgrade process isn't in the process table anymore that you were really looking for "aptitude" even though aptitude has nothing at all to do with the upgrade.
[06:55] <billybigrigger> sorry for the confusion
[06:55] <soren> billybigrigger: I told you to do that because you said a bunch of stuff that turned out not to be true.
[06:55] <billybigrigger> ok
[06:55] <billybigrigger> well my bad, busy day and i'm not thinking straight
[06:56] <soren> billybigrigger: Right now I have to guess what you mean when you say that the upgrade process isn't in the ps output.
[06:56] <billybigrigger> thanksgiving weekend here in canada so my head is full of turkey sorry :(
[06:56] <soren> billybigrigger: Last time you said that, it was ill informed.
[06:56] <billybigrigger> right
[06:57] <billybigrigger> arghh...well i'm lost now soren
[06:58] <billybigrigger> root     26055  0.0  4.9  42856 25088 hvc0     S    Oct11   0:00 /usr/bin/python /tmp/tmpzQNQJU/mave
[06:58] <billybigrigger> rick --mode=server --frontend=DistUpgradeViewText
[06:58] <billybigrigger> that is about the only process i can see that's related
[06:58] <soren> and that's the upgrade process.
[06:58] <billybigrigger> ok
[06:59] <billybigrigger> now how do i go about resuming it?
[06:59] <soren> I have no way to tell.
[06:59] <soren> I have no clue what you've done.
[07:00] <billybigrigger> ok, well my services are still running ok, http and mail are fine...that's all im worried about for now...i guess i'll have to sleep on it and return tomorrow to try and fix it
[07:00] <billybigrigger> maybe someone else can help me out...thanks for your patience :)
[07:02] <soren> When I say "I have no clue what you've done", that's a hint that you should *explain* what you've done.
[07:25] <MTecknology> You guys know where I can configure the memory limit for php-apc?
[07:28] <Doonz> hey guys do the new 12 core opterons have hyperthreading?
[07:30] <twb> Last time I looked, hyperthreading was an Intel-specific hack
[07:32] <twb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading#Modern_commercial_implementations
[07:40] <Doonz> doesnt amd offer a comparable...
[07:45] <twb> Given that it's a dodgy hack, I don't know why they would
[07:46] <Doonz> im looking at a vps server
[07:46] <Doonz> but i should be fine with just 12 cores
[07:47] <Doonz> since the linux vm machins running arent cpu intensive
[07:47] <twb> Kids these days
[07:47] <twb> "just 12 cores"
[07:47] <Doonz> but the price of the cpu isonly 800 bux
[07:47] <Doonz> i know eh
[07:47] <twb> Doonz: it would obviously depend on how many VMs you want and what virtualization technology you used
[07:48] <Doonz> well i currently run 8 machines on the 6 core with only 16gb ram
[07:49] <twb> IIRC Russel Coker got about 8 VMs running on an Eee PC 701.
[07:49] <twb> That's a 600MHz celeron with 1GB of RAM
[07:49] <Doonz> yeah
[08:07] <noaXess> hello
[08:09] <noaXess> i'm planing a server with a min of raid 1... normally if i create the raid0 hardware based, on ubuntu server installation i see both hd's even if they are in raid 1 mode.. what do i need, that on ubuntu server installation i see the raid 1 device?
[08:12] <noaXess> .. ^ raid 1 hardware based
[08:13] <noaXess> or is it better to use software based raid 1
[08:13] <noaXess> ??
[08:15] <twb> noaXess: sounds like you're using fakeraid
[08:15] <twb> noaXess: how much did you pay for your hardware raid controller?
[08:16] <noaXess> twb: haven't one.. i'm planing.. for it
[08:16] <noaXess> just setup buy list ;)
[08:16] <twb> "I see both HDDs even if they are in RAID1 mode" means you don't have a real raid controller
[08:16] <noaXess> server that will be used: http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-3.cfm
[08:17] <noaXess> aha
[08:17] <noaXess> it's a Intel ICH10R SATA 3.0Gbps Controller
[08:17] <noaXess> will use SATA drivers
[08:17] <noaXess> drives ^
[08:18] <twb> ICH10 is the southbridge.  It doesn't contain a real RAID controller.  Don't use it for RAID.
[08:18] <noaXess> twb: ok.. so.. better use software raid?
[08:18] <twb> md RAID, yes.
[08:19] <noaXess> twb: you preffere md RAID?
[08:19] <twb> I don't like the term "software raid" because it could mean fakeraid, and fakeraid is bad.
[08:19] <twb> I almost always deploy md RAID.
[08:19] <noaXess> twb: and in what category goes md RAID?
[08:19] <twb> If I had a customer with lots of money, I deploy (real) hardware RAID.
[08:20] <twb> noaXess: "md" is just the name of the RAID code in the Linux kernel
[08:20] <twb> md = multi-disk
[08:20] <noaXess> ok..
[08:22] <noaXess> so work with mdadm
[08:22] <twb> Yes.
[08:22] <twb> You can do it at install time using the ubuntu-server install media
[08:23] <noaXess> twb: so if i have two identical hd's i can create the raid on ubuntu-server installation
[08:24] <twb> They don't need to be identical
[08:24] <noaXess> the server will be a vbox host.. with 3 vm's
[08:24] <twb> RAID1 will use the size of the smallest disk.
[08:24] <noaXess> twb: hm.. isn't it better?
[08:25] <twb> Well, if you RAID1 a 2TB and a 128MB disk, you'll waste most of the 2TB disk.  In that sense, it's better to use equal-sized disks
[08:25] <noaXess> twb: ok.. thats right.. but if i want a mirror i prefer to use two identical hd's
[08:25] <noaXess> jep
[08:25] <twb> Note that you can (and usually do) perform raid at the partition level
[08:25] <twb> So you could create a 128MB partition on each disk and raid that, and still use the remaining space on the 2TB as a non-raided area
[08:26] <noaXess> twb: yea.. i see..
[08:27] <noaXess> twb: do you raid the system and data part of your servers or just data part? normally i have a hd for system and a hd for data..
[08:28] <twb> My normal setup is to create two partitions, one for /boot and one for an LVM PV.  The former is RAID1'd, the latter is RAID1'd or RAID5'd (depending on the number of disks).  The root, /home, /srv, filesystems are LVs allocated from the PV
[08:30] <noaXess> lvm - logical volume management.. but pv?
[08:30] <twb> Physical Volume
[08:30] <noaXess> ah
[08:30] <twb> i.e. partitions assigned to an LVM VG (volume group)
[08:30] <noaXess> ok..
[08:32] <noaXess> twb: thanks for you information... will come back if the hardware is here ;)
[08:34] <noaXess> it's long time ago since i used md.. think it was about 6 years ago.. since there.. i have done win-servers-- but now i'm off from servers normally.. but one customer i have, need a new one and i knw hes whole network and software.. and will bring the whole company to opensource software..
[08:46] <noaXess> twb: what raid controller you use? promise?
[08:49] <noaXess> bbl... visit customer.. bye
[08:57] <twb> I think he missed the point.  With md RAID *you don't have a hardare RAID controller*, fake or otherwise.
[10:34] <overrider> Hello; My freshly installed 10.4 server was compromised, and id like to figure out how. I can see in the auth.log how a new root account gets created, but i would like to know how the intruder get in to begin with. where there any known exploits against sshd on a 10.4 unpatched server?
[10:49] <twb> overrider: did you do the install while connected to the internet, and allow it to install security patches (which it will do by default, without asking)?
[10:51] <mgolisch_> auth.log shows creation of users?
[10:51] <mgolisch_> why would it?
[10:52] <overrider> twb: nay, i installed the system, then later after changing to a close by mirror installed the patches
[10:53] <overrider> mgolisch_: this is a line from my authlog useradd[28117]: new user: name=nicola, UID=0, GID=0, home=/root, shell=/bin/sh
[10:54] <twb> overrider: so you had a window in which your system was on the internet but was running whatever your install media shipped, rather than the latest ubuntu-security versions
[10:54] <mgolisch_> wow
[10:55] <overrider> twb: protected by a nat router on a small network. if thats enough to get my humped, wow
[10:55] <overrider> because sshd i installed only after getting all the patches
[10:56] <twb> overrider: of ALL the things you could install, sshd is probably the most secure
[10:56] <twb> IME when people get rooted, it's almost always because they installed some retarded PHP thing
[10:57] <overrider> twb: this was a plain install; i used ufw to block all ports except sshd, and still.
[10:57] <twb> Being behind a nat doesn't actually give you any real protection
[10:58] <twb> Apart from anything else, other hosts on the LAN can attack you
[10:58] <twb> What evidence do you have that you were rooted, anyway?  Maybe you're just misinterpreting normal auth logs.
[10:58] <overrider> unlikely in this lan;
[10:58] <overrider> twb: oh for starters, i have a new root user called nicola
[10:59] <twb> As in nicola:x:0:0:... ?
[10:59] <overrider> then the user logged in, and modified my sshd.conf so he could login later with a ssh keyfile
[10:59] <twb> Fair enough, then.
[11:00] <twb> Were you physically proximal to the box?
[11:00] <twb> It's trivial to get root on an Ubuntu box if you have physical access and can reboot it
[11:02] <overrider> it was in a server room and surely accessed over the network. also behind a nat router, and the only port mapped to it was 22
[11:04] <overrider> he also forgot to clear his history file, so some things he did are shown here http://pastebin.ca/1959959
[11:05] <overrider> if he brute forced my password to login via ssh, fine i am dumb, but if he could get in without password, i am sort of anxious to figure out how
[11:05] <twb> So 22 *was* DNATted when you were compromised?
[11:06] <overrider> twb: yes sure. the server in a serverroom, connected to the internet via a normal router (dlink i think). the only thing open to the world was 22
[11:09] <twb> Unless you picked a predictable admin username and password at install time, I can't see how they would get in
[11:09] <twb> Looks like fresh.tgz:passfile contains the passwords they're using
[11:10] <overrider> twb: mine is not in there; honestly, i am quite stumped
[11:12] <twb> You used the 10.04 *server* install CD?
[11:12] <overrider> twb: yes
[11:12] <twb> And the only thing you installed was sshd?
[11:13] <overrider> twb: no. i also installed vim, rsync, things like that. but the only network service that had a port open was sshd
[11:13] <twb> rsync contains a network service, fyi
[11:13] <twb> But it's off by default
[11:14] <overrider> yeah
[11:14] <overrider> also i had everything denied except 22 via ufw
[11:14] <twb> My inclination is to suspect that they either managed to brute-force your password, or that you installed an insecure service without realizing it.
[11:15] <twb> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/ lists known vulnerabilities
[11:15] <overrider> twb: thanks, i will check it out.
[11:15] <twb> It could also be that your tertiary/quaternary mirror was compromised, of course
[11:16] <twb> If you were using <country code>.archive.ubuntu.com or whatever it is, that should be OK
[11:23] <twb> You might like to bug -hardened about it
[11:23] <twb> They're probably better at forensics than -server.
[12:09] <zooz> what is the default kernel with 10.10 ?
[12:11] <soren> zooz: 2.6.35.
[12:29] <noaXess> twb: hey hey..
[12:30] <twb> noaXess: 18:57 <twb> I think he missed the point.  With md RAID *you don't have a hardare RAID controller*, fake or otherwise.
[12:30] <noaXess> twb: i asked what hardware raid controller you use.. for a real RAID..
[12:30] <twb> Whatever $boss buys
[12:30] <twb> Which is basically whatever the tier-1 vendor supplies
[12:31] <twb> i.e. you ring up HP or IBM and say "hi, I have $10k to spend and I want a <model number> with the hardware RAID5 option"
[12:54] <JamesPage> ttx: ping
[12:54] <ttx> JamesPage: pong
[12:55] <JamesPage> ttx: have you had a change to look at bug 658227?
[12:55] <ttx> JamesPage: that's next on my todo
[12:55] <ttx> looking now
[12:55] <JamesPage> ttx: thanks
[13:00] <ttx> JamesPage: I raised priority
[13:00] <ttx> Will mention it in todays meeting.
[13:01] <JamesPage> ttx: are we to late to add this to the release notes for Maverick?
[13:01] <ttx> JamesPage: is that the only annoying regression you caught in triage ?
[13:02] <ttx> JamesPage: We ususally don't add bugs to release notes after release.
[13:02] <JamesPage> ttx: only one I have found so far (I only spent an hour or so reviewing yesterday afternoon - realised everyone was on hols)
[13:02] <noaXess> twb: so you work with hp/ibm servers?
[13:02] <twb> If I have no alternative
[13:03]  * ttx has a quick look at the new bugs
[13:03] <noaXess> twb: and which kind of raind controller?
[13:03] <noaXess> raid ^
[13:04] <twb> NFI
[13:43] <noaXess> twb: any weblink of NFI?
[13:48] <twb> NFI = No Fucking Idea
[13:49] <twb> Probably 3ware.  I don't know if anybody else even makes hardware raid controllers.
[13:49] <noaXess> twb: aha.. :) ok
[13:49] <patdk-wk> what kind of server is it in?
[13:49] <noaXess> promise, LSI,
[13:50] <twb> I don't think they make raid controllers, only fakeraid
[13:50] <noaXess> patdk-wk: i'm searching a real hardware raid controller
[13:50] <noaXess> twb: ok. hm..
[13:50] <noaXess> Adaptec?
[13:50] <twb> Hum, bizarre.  Apparently LSI bought 3ware last april
[13:50] <patdk-wk> for what kind of usage?
[13:50] <patdk-wk> ya, lsi owns most all raid now
[13:50] <twb> noaXess: yeah, I thikn adaptec are the other one I was trying to remember.
[13:50] <patdk-wk> they are like the biggest raid currently
[13:50] <patdk-wk> adaptec seems to be going down quickly
[13:51] <twb> I'm not really involved in the hardware raid space.  md is plenty fast for me, and it's more useful.
[13:51] <patdk-wk> highpoint is just odd, but many love them
[13:51] <patdk-wk> areca seem to be good ones though
[13:51]  * soren doesn't approve of hardware raid.. never did.
[13:51] <twb> I can put the disks in any system with any version of linux and they're Just Work, and I don't need to install proprietary management tools (or worse, reboot) to manage arrays.
[13:52] <noaXess> twb: think will also use md
[13:52] <noaXess> twb: hm... looks nice ;)
[13:52] <patdk-wk> I had always had issues with software raid
[13:52] <patdk-wk> like swapping disks
[13:52] <twb> The only real upside of hardware raid is that it's faster
[13:52] <patdk-wk> knowing what disk needs to be swapped
[13:52] <patdk-wk> plus, I love the bbu
[13:52] <twb> patdk-wk: that shouldn't be hard; mdstat tells you which node fell over, and you ask hdparm for its serial number
[13:53] <noaXess> patdk-wk: what controller you use?
[13:53] <patdk-wk> I have 3ware, lsi, and adaptec's
[13:53] <twb> patdk-wk: do you always buy a couple of spare controllers, so that if the one you're using dies, you can still get the data out? ;-)
[13:54] <noaXess> patdk-wk: do 3ware make real RAID's?
[13:54] <patdk-wk> twb, if only I could see the serial numbers without disconnecting the drives
[13:54] <twb> noaXess: yes
[13:54] <patdk-wk> twb, yes, I normally have a spare one
[13:54] <twb> patdk-wk: aha, that's why you put sticky labels on the faces before you insert them, or so
[13:54] <twb> Or use like a dentists mirror
[13:54] <patdk-wk> twb, ya, but flashing lights on the front of the hotswap is almost idiot proof :)
[13:55] <twb> Come to think of it, you're right -- I'm too poor to get hotswap, so I can always just pull both drives out and read their labels
[13:56] <patdk-wk> for me, raid is ok, even software raid is fine
[13:56] <patdk-wk> but my servers spend 0% of their time doing reads, and 100% of the time writing
[13:56] <_ruben> when my md setup complains about sdX being kicked out, i just do dd if=/dev/sdX of=/dev/null and see which light goes nuts ;)
[13:56] <patdk-wk> so I need write performance, and the only way to do that is with a bbu raid
[13:56] <twb> patdk-wk: you don't need a disk at all, the
[13:56] <twb> *then
[13:57] <patdk-wk> twb, only for reboots :)
[13:57] <twb> So 0% is only an approximation? ;-)
[13:57] <patdk-wk> well, it's like 0.01%
[13:57] <patdk-wk> I rounded :)
[13:57] <twb> Otherwise you use /dev/null for your array
[13:57] <twb> Just like the tape backups
[13:58] <patdk-wk> ya, fun, 56 lto3 tape lib
[13:58] <noaXess> what should i use for a vbox host with about 4 vm's? md or 3ware controller?
[13:59] <twb> noaXess: depends what the VMs are doing
[13:59] <patdk-wk> it all depends on what kind of drive activity, as far as I am concerned :)
[13:59] <twb> patdk-wk: we got rid of tape last year, I think
[13:59] <twb> patdk-wk: replaced it with ZFS
[13:59] <noaXess> one abacus/financial server, one openerp, one win2k3 database controller, one i.e. win2k3 citrix terminal server and a spare one..
[14:00] <noaXess> test one
[14:00] <patdk-wk> I would love to get an offsite, realtime backup going
[14:00] <noaXess> instead of one win2k3 citrix  one lstsp server
[14:01] <noaXess> ltsp i mean ^
[14:01] <twb> patdk-wk: eh, mine isn't realtime
[14:01] <twb> patdk-wk: it's basically rsnapshot except using zfs snapshots instead of cp -al
[14:02] <twb> noaXess: if this is a whitebox solution, you could roll out md and see how it goes
[14:02] <twb> noaXess: if the devs bitch, then you can migrate to hardware raid
[14:02] <noaXess> twb: whitebox.. you mean test
[14:02] <twb> whitebox as in you lucky dragon random components you assemble yourself
[14:02] <noaXess> so.. i can also use hardware
[14:02] <twb> As opposed to paying another 40% to get an HP-brand box
[14:03] <patdk-wk> the drives will probably need to be reformated to switch
[14:03] <twb> Yeah, true
[14:03] <patdk-wk> but that would be the worst
[14:03] <twb> If you are buying a raid controllre you can probably afford the extra $50 for another pair of 2TB SATA drives
[14:04] <noaXess> what about this controller? http://www.ltsp.org/
[14:04] <noaXess> shit.. sorry 3ware 9650SE-8LPML
[14:04] <patdk-wk> that works, lets you use 8 drives, hardware
[14:04] <twb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_box_(computer_hardware)
[14:04] <patdk-wk> I would get the battery for it
[14:05] <patdk-wk> battery is like $110
[14:05] <twb> as in UPS?
[14:05] <patdk-wk> no
[14:05] <twb> Why not just get a UPS?
[14:05] <patdk-wk> totally different
[14:06] <patdk-wk> and a ups wouldn't speed it up at all
[14:06] <patdk-wk> well, not safely
[14:06] <twb> How does a battery improve I/O speed?
[14:06] <patdk-wk> you can use writeback instead of writethrough safely on the raid card
[14:06] <patdk-wk> so your writes are extreemly fast, unless your writing gigs of info
[14:06] <twb> Wouldn't you get that with UPS, too?
[14:06] <patdk-wk> nope
[14:06] <noaXess> patdk-wk: and configured raid's are visible in ubuntu server installation without any additional drivers?
[14:06] <twb> Why not?
[14:07] <patdk-wk> cause the raid card wouldn't know when the ups lost power to flush it's cache
[14:07] <patdk-wk> so when the ups died, even if you turned the computer off cleanly
[14:07] <patdk-wk> there would still be writes outstanding on the raid cards memory, not on the drives
[14:07] <patdk-wk> and you loose them
[14:07] <twb> patdk-wk: OK, but theoretically if there was a way to say to the card "STFU, I have a UPS and I'll tell you when to panic", it'd be just as effective.  it's just that the controller manufacturer doesn't provide such a thing
[14:07] <patdk-wk> yep
[14:08] <patdk-wk> make a custom cable from the raid card to the ups
[14:08] <_ruben> heh
[14:08] <twb> OK, I thought for a moment maybe I misunderstood how it worked
[14:08] <twb> patdk-wk: yeah, or jumper one of the undocumented pins wokka wokka wokka
[14:08] <_ruben> basically a bbu is to a raidcard, what an usp is to a server
[14:08] <_ruben> s/usp/ups/
[14:08] <twb> Yeah, I get the idea
[14:08] <patdk-wk> I just look at the bbu as the write speed tax
[14:09] <twb> It just hadn't occurred to me that you couldn't force writethrough from the OS
[14:09] <patdk-wk> you can force it
[14:09] <patdk-wk> but if you ever disconnect power, your screwed
[14:09] <twb> Ah, good point
[14:10] <_ruben> most raidcards offer the option "use cache when battery is alive"
[14:10] <_ruben> it'll even discharge/recharge the battery occasionaly to keep it alive and check its expected lifetime
[14:10] <patdk-wk> yep
[14:10] <patdk-wk> mine normally range from 50-80 hours
[14:11] <_ruben> never really bothered to check on mine ;)
[14:11] <patdk-wk> I do, so I can replace them, if needed
[14:11] <_ruben> estimated charge remaining: 1 days 20 hours 19 minutes
[14:12] <_ruben> 3 days 1 hours 13 minutes on another
[14:12] <_ruben> guess adaptec doesn't care much about multiples or not ;)
[14:12] <patdk-wk> heh
[14:17] <noaXess> if i use a 3ware controller, do i need anything special while installing ubuntu-server?
[14:17] <patdk-wk> keyboard helps
[14:18] <noaXess> so the installer does see the configured raid's..
[14:19] <twb> noaXess: there's probably an Ubuntu HCL somewhere
[14:19] <twb> A la kmuto's debian one
[14:19] <noaXess> ??
[14:20] <patdk-wk> if you setup the drives in the 3ware bios, ubuntu will just see the raid as a single drive (or more if you setup several)
[14:20] <noaXess> o
[14:20] <noaXess> ok
[14:20] <patdk-wk> after install, you can install the 3ware utils to monitor it from linux/ubuntu
[14:21] <twb> Not in main though, are they >grumble<
[14:22] <patdk-wk> I actually haven't installed ubuntu on any of my 3ware machines, yet
[14:22] <patdk-wk> so not sure exactly
[14:25] <twb> I should start a "main or GTFO" vendor liason group
[14:26] <patdk-wk> heh
[14:27] <twb> Because, you know, I enjoy helping people
[14:29] <patdk-wk> I only see hp, adaptec, and old lsi
[14:33] <noaXess> patdk-wk: will come back to this channel. if my hardware is assembled
[15:19] <illytacos> please can I get some help? the nautilus-gksu plugin has messed me up hard. I keep getting an error when I log in that Could not update ICEauthority file /home/name/.ICEauthority so I go into terminal and attempt to change permissions only the ICEauthority file is nowhere to be found. I did a search and it did not exist... not sure how a file could write to something that isn't there. I then tried to set a new password as per
[15:20] <illytacos> sorry for the cross post it's
[15:20] <illytacos> for a samba file server and I realized I was in the wrong room
[15:29] <meh2> hey guys, does anyone here run HE ipv6 tunnelbroker on a daynamic ip?
[15:29] <meh2> i have a problem running it on my dynamic* ip
[15:31] <_ruben> meh2: use their pptp tunnel option, and for more support, check out #ipv6
[15:32] <illytacos> hey folks anyone able to assist with my question? tnx!
[15:32] <meh2> thanks _ruben
[15:33] <_ruben> meh2: it's also possible to update your ipv4 endpoint's ip address via a special url btw
[15:34] <meh2> _ruben, yeah, i tried that special url but it didnt want to work for me :(
[16:10] <patdk-wk> I just can't believe some of these stats
[16:11] <patdk-wk> Solaris 2.5-7, 111915 emails, 99.63% spam
[16:20] <tgwoollard> could someone please help me to understand if i have setup my swap okay on a new 10.04 Ubuntu installation? During install i partitioned 64GB for swap and the rest of my disk for ext3. System is loaded and working okay and fstab shows expected entries for swap and ext3 but a df -h doesn't list any swap space. How can i tell that swap is setup correctly? Thanks in advance.
[16:22] <twb> patdk-wk: why are you running Solaris 2.5?
[16:23] <|rt|> tgwoollard: df doesn't list swap but free will...it won't tell you where it's coming from but you'll be able to verify that you have 64GB
[16:23] <|rt|> tgwoollard: dmesg | grep swap will tell you where it's coming from
[16:24] <tgwoollard> rt: thanks a bunch. You're a star
[16:33] <Mez> Can anyone tell me why for some reason, I'm not able to view the processes of anyone else as a normal user (hardy, unfortunately)
[16:34] <Mez> I'mn trying to get nrpe working, but it only seeing it's own processes - it's hard to check if things are working
[16:34] <overrider> how can i check whether i have automatic-updates enabled or not?
[16:36] <overrider> ah got it
[16:36] <patdk-wk> twb, nope
[16:36] <patdk-wk> that is using the os detection (pof) of servers that connect to me
[16:37] <patdk-wk> I log the spamass value of each email they send me, by ip, and os
[16:38] <patdk-wk> and about twice a month or so, I update my white/black/yellow/brown lists :)
[16:48] <gregclips> hey, trying to restart samba and sudo /etc/init.d/samba restart won't work keeps saying file not found then tried sudo /etc/samba restart to no avail. is there another way? thnx
[16:50] <qman__> gregclips, on lucid, sudo service smbd restart
[16:53] <gregclips> thanks man
[16:54] <gregclips> worked like a charm!
[17:08] <thesheff17> join #boto
[17:09] <gregclips> Hey one more question, how do I migrate files from one server to another retaining the permissions? I'm a n00b so when I do cp -pR /media/usb key /media/files/shared/shared files it says 'files' is not a directory
[17:10] <thesheff17> is there anyway to automatically accept the sun-java6-jdk package?
[17:10] <Nyxation> gregclips: Surround the path with quotations or escape that space in the path.
[17:11] <thesheff17> gregclips: also make sure the dest folder is created: mkdir -p /media/files/shared/shared
[17:16] <gregclips> Nyxation: so '/media/files/shared/shared files'?
[17:17] <gregclips> thesheff17: sorry, in my syntax /media/usb key is the media I would like to copy /media/files/shared/shared files to. Do I have that right?
[17:18] <Nyxation> gregclips: cp -pR /media/usb\ key /media/files/shared/shared\ files
[17:19] <thesheff17> gregclips: it looks right accept for the space between usb and key.   Surround the path with quotations...or never have spaces in folder names...and rename the folder
[17:19] <gregclips> Oh ok! I will try that thank you. Just getting used to all this.
[17:19] <Nyxation> gregclips: Your one in quotations should work, single and double work.
[17:20] <gregclips> Nyxation: ok. In some cases I don't have a choice with the file names because I'm migrating files other users have created and they want to maintain that for whatever reason.
[17:20] <gregclips> but that helps a lot
[17:21] <gregclips> Nyxation: the backslash also will allow for spaces?
[17:22] <Nyxation> gregclips: Yeah, it's an escape character.
[17:32] <haakonn> hey, any idea about ubuntu packages for trac 0.12[.1]? even ubuntu 10.10 still has 0.11 as default, which seems very strange to me.
[17:32] <gregclips> Nyxation: Thanks man. This helps a lot
[17:49] <TeTeT> how do I specify the user for which I want to delete a security group?
[17:49] <TeTeT> in UEC
[17:57] <franksterville> TeTeT:  edit /etc/group
[17:57] <franksterville> remove the user there
[17:58] <TeTeT> franksterville: it's not Unix group, it's a UEC security group, different problem
[17:59] <TeTeT> franksterville: but thanks for your help anyway
[17:59] <franksterville> TeTeT:  oops guess I need to read lol
[18:01] <gregclips> another newbie question - trying to change file permissions and I'm having some trouble with my syntax. Trying to dp chown -R 770 user:user /home/servername/test/user\ lastname and it's saying that chown: cannot access `user': No such file or directory
[18:03] <franksterville> gregclips:  Case sensitive?
[18:03] <franksterville> User
[18:03] <franksterville> "maybe"
[18:05] <qman__> gregclips, you can't do chmod and chown with the same command
[18:05] <qman__> remove the 770
[18:05] <qman__> chown -R user:group
[18:05] <qman__> chmod 770
[18:06] <qman__> also, it's a bad idea to chmod 770 all files recursively
[18:06] <RCola> you have to specify the name of the user the and the group.
[18:07] <RCola> chown -R 770 admin:wheel /test/dir
[18:07] <qman__> use chmod -R u=rwX,g=rwX,o= /path/to/dir
[18:07] <qman__> the capital X means directories will be listable, and existing executable files will remain executable, but it will not make all files executable
[18:09] <RCola> stat /home/servername/test/user will also tell you if the path exists
[18:14] <gregclips> qman__: I'm just trying to do chown for now. Have I made an error?
[18:17] <gregclips> ahhh thanks. I see my error now.
[18:20] <gregclips> qman__: ok one last silly question when I do chmod how do I set the user? chmod user -R rwx /dir ?
[18:24] <haakonn> you don't, check out chown instead
[18:25] <ne7work> ctrl + what is for background process?
[18:25] <gregclips> haakonn: ohhh ok.
[18:26] <gregclips> sorry I needed to read the scroll I made a minor boo boo
[18:26] <gregclips> thanks for making it painless
[19:03] <Kaelten> anyone able to tell me why %www-data ALL=NOPASSWD:gunicorn_reload would create a syntax error
[19:03] <Kaelten> in sudoers
[19:08] <qman__> Kaelten, you're missing a field
[19:08] <Kaelten> qman__: where?
[19:09] <qman__> the bit in parentheses, the operator
[19:09] <qman__> e.g. %admin ALL = (ALL) ALL
[19:10] <Kaelten> %www-data ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: gunicorn_reload
[19:10] <Kaelten> still results in an syntax error
[19:11] <qman__> not sure about it, but every example has it spaced
[19:11] <qman__> try putting spaces in
[19:11] <qman__> also, you need to put the absolute path for the command
[19:12] <qman__>  /usr/sbin/gunicorn_reload, or wherever it is
[19:13] <Kaelten> it's a bash function
[19:14] <Kaelten> but that appears to have been the problem
[19:16] <qman__> what I'm reading indicates that you can't add shell builtin commands to sudoers
[19:16] <qman__> not sure what the workaround would be
[19:17] <qman__> maybe create a script which performs the task, and then grant sudoer permission to that script
[19:18]  * RoyK hands qman__ a beer
[19:28] <Kyle__> Is there anyone here with experience running an NIS server out of ubuntu?
[19:29] <pmatulis> why is this happening to me?
[19:29] <pmatulis> ip route add <IP_ADDRESS>/24 via <IP_ADDRESS> dev br0
[19:29] <pmatulis> RTNETLINK answers: No such process
[19:34] <Aison> hello, something goes wrong with my ubuntu server
[19:34] <Aison> pppd[6128]: segfault at bfaf070f ip b7539398 sp bfaeae2c error 6 in libnss_files-2.12.1.so[b7537000+a000]
[19:34] <Aison> when I try starting pppd I get this error
[19:43] <RoyK> Aison: post a bug - add all relevant info
[19:45] <Aison> maybe I should try reinstall this libnss_files first
[19:45] <Aison> how can I get the related packagE?
[19:45] <RoyK> I don't think reinstalling a package will help a segfault
[19:45] <RoyK> but you just might try
[19:46] <Aison> RoyK, this bug is really new, it worked now over an year, so maybe some file is corrupted
[19:47] <pmatulis> Aison: are you using 10.10 ?
[19:48] <Aison> pmatulis, yes, updated on my testing machine
[19:50] <pmatulis> Aison: the packages is 'libc6'.  i'm not sure if you should re-install that but if it's a test machine...
[19:51] <Aison> well, don't help
[19:51] <Aison> then it's a bug in 10.10
[19:52] <Aison> bad thing :(
[19:54] <ivoks> zul: ping
[19:54] <zul> ivoks: yo
[19:54] <haakonn> upgraded a server to maverick. "* Not starting NFS kernel daemon: no support in current kernel." -- wtf? no nfs support in the new kernel?
[19:54] <ivoks> zul: is there a howto for daily builds in ppa? :)
[19:55] <ivoks> haakonn: modinfo nfsd
[19:55] <zul> ivoks: yeah...check the server team knowledge base to get started
[19:55] <ivoks> zul: thanks
[19:55] <haakonn> ivoks:  ERROR: modinfo: could not find module nfsd
[19:55] <ivoks> haakonn: uname -a
[19:56] <haakonn> ivoks:  Linux dev.jafu 2.6.35-22-virtual #34-Ubuntu SMP Sun Oct 10 12:25:39 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[19:56] <haakonn> and it is a virtual machine
[19:56] <ivoks> haakonn: does this file exists
[19:56] <ivoks> haakonn: /lib/modules/2.6.35-22-generic/kernel/fs/nfsd/nfsd.ko
[19:56] <ivoks> ah, -virtual
[19:56] <haakonn> ivoks:  no, does not exist
[19:56] <ivoks> not sure what's in virtual
[19:57] <ClaesBas> Installing "minimal server" in exportmode (for sw-raid & lvm) 10.10 stops after 5% when "Select and install software" anybody seen a solution for that?
[19:57] <haakonn> /lib/modules/2.6.35-22-virtual/kernel/fs/nfsd/ exists but is empty
[19:57] <ClaesBas> s/export/expert/
[19:57] <Aison> hmm, also ssh login on 10.10 takes over 20seconds! quite strange
[19:57] <Jeeves_> ClaesBas: You don't need expert-mode for that?
[19:58] <Jeeves_> Aison: Check your dns
[19:58] <ClaesBas> Jeeves_: I was using the SSH-install
[19:58] <Jeeves_> ClaesBas: Ah, ok
[19:59] <Jeeves_> No clue about your problem, btw
[19:59] <Aison> Jeeves_, what should I check there? so far my dns worked fine?
[19:59] <ClaesBas> I will givit a try without the expertmode...
[19:59] <ivoks> haakonn: i'm checking, wait couple of minutes
[19:59] <ClaesBas> I will be back...
[19:59] <Jeeves_> Aison: Usually, if logging in takes some time
[19:59] <haakonn> ivoks:  thanks, current plan b is to boot back to old kernel if possible…
[20:00] <Jeeves_> the resolving on the serverside is broken
[20:01] <Aison> Jeeves_, I just noticed this error before motd: Failed to add entry for user root.
[20:02] <Jeeves_> Hmm
[20:02] <Jeeves_> that's odd
[20:04] <haakonn> ivoks:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/659084 looks bad :(
[20:16] <ivoks> haakonn: did you try proposed?
[20:17] <ivoks> haakonn: nah, don't bother...
[20:19] <haakonn> ivoks:  agree, trying to think of alternatives while waiting for new kernel
[20:20] <ivoks> kernel rebuild
[20:32] <ivoks> zul: i've hit the brick wall
[20:32] <zul> ivoks: oh?
[20:33] <ivoks> zul: while i'm importing upstream's mercurial, it asks for 'Project'
[20:33] <zul> ivoks: yeah it has to be imported into bzr
[20:33] <ivoks> zul: 'Request a code import'; fails cause 'ubuntu' is invalid value for the project
[20:33] <ivoks> zul: yes, that's what i'm doing
[20:34] <ivoks> The Project to associate the code import with.
[20:34] <ivoks> zul: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new
[20:38] <ivoks> i give up
[20:39] <ajmitch> you need a register a project on LP for code to be imported into
[20:40] <ivoks> doh :)
[20:41] <ivoks> i can't use 'Ubuntu'?
[20:41] <ajmitch> nope, you can't import code to a distribution :)
[20:41] <ivoks> i'm looking at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-edgers/ubuntu/maverick/varnish/varnish-dailies.packaging
[20:42] <ivoks> this looks like ubuntu project
[20:42] <ivoks> or LP UI is missleading :)
[20:42] <ajmitch> right, but that's not a code import
[20:43] <ajmitch> the recipe refers to lp:~zulcss/varnish-cache/trunk
[20:43] <ajmitch> #launchpad would know far more than I do
[20:44] <ivoks> thanks
[20:45] <ajmitch> not sure how zul has those import branches set up, but they appear to be against a project on LP still
[20:45] <zul> actually im right here
[20:46] <ajmitch> zul: good, you can answer it then :)
[20:46] <zul> ivoks: are you trying to do dovecot?
[20:46] <ivoks> zul: no, pacemaker
[20:46] <zul> ivoks: gimme a sec
[20:47] <ivoks> ok.... one second is up
[20:47] <ivoks> :)
[20:47] <ajmitch> impatient...
[20:47] <zul> ivoks: so basically this is what you have to do
[20:47] <zul> im trying to type ass :)
[20:48] <zul> 1. register the project in launchpad
[20:48] <zul> 2. import the code into launchpad
[20:48] <ivoks> ok
[20:48] <zul> 3. make a bzr branch of the debian directory
[20:48] <zul> 4. write the reciepe
[20:48] <ivoks> i don't get it why it has to be a new project
[20:48] <ivoks> it's ubuntu project
[20:48] <ClaesBas> Anybody more with fail after 5% when "Select and install software" in fresh 10.10AMD64 minimal server install?
[20:48] <zul> 5. publish to the ppa
[20:48] <zul> 6. profit
[20:48] <ajmitch> ivoks: because you're merging ubuntu changes to upstream code
[20:48] <zul> ivoks: because its tied to launchpad
[20:49] <ajmitch> technically any distro on LP could base their recipes off the same upstream branch
[20:51] <ivoks> hm... ok
[20:52] <ivoks> and bzr is synced from upstream's mercurial/cvs/svn?
[20:52]  * ajmitch wonders how broken daily php5 builds are
[20:52] <ivoks> :)
[20:52] <ajmitch> yeah, they sync mirrored branches every few hours
[20:54] <ivoks> or
[20:54] <ivoks> i could add everything to server-daily-builds :)
[20:54] <ivoks> zul: ^^
[20:57] <ribo> anyone here use pacemaker?
[20:57] <ivoks> heh
[20:57] <ribo> and have any idea what this means: --norc: no such option: noprofile
[20:57] <ivoks> ribo: where did you get that?
[20:58] <ribo> after writing my config with crm configure edit
[20:58] <ribo> http://pastebin.com/cXzmkWYV
[20:59] <ivoks> that's configuration
[20:59] <ivoks> but where do you get --norc?
[20:59] <ribo> when you exit the editor it commits the changes, and throws that error
[21:00] <ribo> then reverts the config to default
[21:00] <bits8mybytes> hello what permissions do you generally set to the /var/www directory?
[21:00] <bits8mybytes> I am trying to get joomla to work but I don't want to chmod 777 it because I heard that is insecure
[21:01] <ivoks> ribo: have you tried without 'order'?
[21:01] <ivoks> ribo: ip1:start apache2:start donesn't look good to me
[21:01] <ivoks> ribo: ip1 apache2 is what i'm using
[21:02] <ribo> hmm ok
[21:02] <ClaesBas> Here is my syslog of failing installation: http://pastebin.ca/1960350 (I've tried many variants of the minimal AMD64-server with sw-raid and lvm, all get stucked when "Select and install software"!!)
[21:04] <ribo> ivoks: so like order apache_after_ip inf: ip1 apache2
[21:04] <ribo> ?
[21:04] <ivoks> ribo: yes
[21:04] <ribo> same error
[21:04] <ivoks> which ubuntu is that?
[21:05] <ribo> 10.10
[21:05] <ribo> following this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/LucidTesting
[21:06] <ivoks> i didn't know that page is so popular :)
[21:06] <sanduz2> hi, i noticed that ubuntu uses 95mb when i am logged in and most of that is bash. will this memory usage go away when i logout and leave the server to handle things on its own?
[21:06] <ribo> is it? :P
[21:06] <Patrickdk> what? mine only uses 24megs on boot
[21:07] <sanduz2> hm, i used a fresh ubuntu-server install and it uses 95m and i check top and its all from bash
[21:07] <ClaesBas> One short question: Does anybody knew if frminimal
[21:07] <ivoks> dc-version="1.0.9-unknown" ?
[21:07] <Patrickdk> well, start killing stuff, that is what I did, kept only needed stuff, ended up with 24megs
[21:07] <ClaesBas> One short question: Does anybody knew if fresh installation of minimal amd64 server ever tested/working?
[21:08] <Patrickdk> claesbas, it does for me :)
[21:08] <ribo> ivoks: that's what was in there to begin with
[21:08] <sanduz2> is there a way to check how much the server uses without being logged in and invoking bash
[21:08] <ClaesBas> Release version of 10.10?
[21:08] <ivoks> ribo: ok, remove everything except ip
[21:08] <Patrickdk> sanduz2, mine used 24megs including logging in and using bash
[21:08] <ivoks> ribo: save and commit
[21:08] <soren> ClaesBas: Huh?
[21:08] <ivoks> ribo: then add apache2
[21:08] <sanduz2> thats weird =/ can you tell me how much MB just bash uses?
[21:08] <ivoks> ribo: then group, etc...
[21:09] <sanduz2> on your system?
[21:09] <ClaesBas> soren: look at my syslog http://pastebin.ca/1960350
[21:09] <sanduz2> thanks
[21:09] <Patrickdk> bash is using 2megs
[21:10] <ivoks> ClaesBas: your disk is full
[21:10] <ClaesBas> 73G!
[21:10] <ivoks> ClaesBas: #
[21:10] <ivoks> Oct 12 19:42:07 in-target: No apport report written because the error message indicates a disk full error
[21:10] <ClaesBas> Is it the wrong chmod of /tmp (not 1777)?
[21:10] <soren> ClaesBas: Oct 12 19:42:08 in-target:  unable to create `/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.35-22-server/include/config/sbc8360/wdt.h.dpkg-new' (while processing `./usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.35-22-server/include/config/sbc8360/wdt.h'): No space left on device
[21:10] <ribo> ivoks: guh it throws the error even if I just put the two nodes in there
[21:11] <ivoks> haakonn: kernel team is aware of the problem
[21:12] <ivoks> ribo: o.O
[21:12] <ribo> ivoks: exactly
[21:12] <ribo> stracing it...
[21:14] <ribo> yeah, idgi
[21:14] <ClaesBas> soren: I have partioned the two 73G disks with sw-raid1 and lvm with two partions (swap 8G and the rest for / ext4 bigfile4)!!
[21:15] <RoAkSoAx> ivoks: p/win 20
[21:15] <RoAkSoAx> ups
[21:15] <ribo> ivoks: yeah, if I change ANYTHING I get the error
[21:16] <ivoks> ribo: what editor are you using?
[21:16] <ribo> vim
[21:16] <soren> ClaesBas: I'm just telling you what's in your syslog (which is the only thing you've shared).
[21:16] <ribo> checking EDITOR to nano
[21:16] <Aison> crap, also ldap stopped working with 10.10
[21:17] <ribo> same thing
[21:18] <ClaesBas> soren: I've telling you that the package "lies", i've checked with df and there was of course space LEFT not full!
[21:19] <ribo> ivoks: hell. sudo su -l, then running it, works
[21:19] <ribo> lol
[21:19] <soren> ClaesBas: df -i, too?
[21:19] <ribo> DUMB ERROR
[21:19] <ivoks> ribo: ?
[21:19] <ribo> it doesn't work with sudo
[21:19] <ivoks> umm...
[21:19] <ribo> but if I get a root login shell, it works
[21:19] <ClaesBas> No, but shouldn't something like 60G be enough for "minimal server"?
[21:19] <ribo><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:20] <sanduz2> the biggest user of memory on my ubuntu-server 10.10 is bash and it only uses 6mb (RES column in top). how is it that 100MB total is currently being used by the system? does it matter that this is on a virtual machine?
[21:20] <ivoks> ClaesBas: what kind of raid did you setup?
[21:20] <ivoks> ClaesBas: linux raid or fakeraid?
[21:20] <ClaesBas> sw-raid
[21:20] <ivoks> that's in-bios raid?
[21:20] <ClaesBas> no!
[21:21] <ivoks> linux raid?
[21:21] <ivoks> raid in installer?
[21:21] <ClaesBas> yes!
[21:22] <Aison> I found the reason, why my pppd segfaults
[21:22] <ivoks> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems
[21:22] <ivoks> hm
[21:22] <Aison> it's because ldap is not working and so nss
[21:22] <ClaesBas> Could this bigfiles4 for /ext4 be the "baddie"?
[21:23] <soren> ClaesBas: Can you "apt-get -f install" after the install is done?
[21:23] <sanduz2> anyone have any ideas why ubuntu-server is using 100mb despite my biggest process only using 6mb?
[21:23] <Jordan_U> ClaesBas: If you chose to allocate to few inodes, by choosing that you'll mainly be using "big" files, then that could be a problem for your root FS, yes.
[21:24] <ClaesBas> I'm going to do a last try with another choice of inode-settings... (and check df -i)
[21:24] <Jordan_U> sanduz2: It's proably mostly cache.
[21:24] <ClaesBas> soren: I don't think I've have apt-get installed yes...
[21:24] <ClaesBas> s/yes/yet
[21:25] <sanduz2> how can i check Jordan_U ?
[21:25] <ribo> ivoks: cool, everything works flawlessly now lol
[21:25] <sanduz2> would that be the buffer section in top?
[21:25] <ClaesBas> I going over to the server room....
[21:25] <ivoks> sanduz2: free -m
[21:26] <Jordan_U> sanduz2: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
[21:26] <sanduz2> total/used: 96mb, buffer/cache: 48mb
[21:26] <sanduz2> sounds normal?
[21:26] <sanduz2> this is a vanilla 10.10 ubuntu-server on a VM
[21:27] <sanduz2> thanks Jordan_U  ill check that out
[21:31] <soren> Why are you spending all this time worrying about memory consumption?
[21:31] <sanduz2> thats a very good read Jordan_U, thank you. so linux only uses about 40-50mb on its own, nice
[21:32] <sanduz2> i mean ubuntu-server not linux*
[21:32] <soren> Having (almost) no free memory is A Good Thing[tm].
[21:32] <ivoks> memory is for use, not for looking
[21:32] <ivoks> using
[21:32] <franksterville> I cant remember how much memory I use  9.9
[21:33] <soren> Memory not in use is memory wasted.
[21:34] <franksterville> So is CPU
[21:35] <Jordan_U> sanduz2: You're welcome.
[21:36] <Jordan_U> franksterville: CPU's can use less power when not in use, so that's not quite as true.
[21:37] <franksterville> Jordan_U:  I still feel bad when I see CPU 2%.  I feel like Its not worth the PS consumption...
[21:47] <ivoks> good night
[21:47] <RoyK> evening
[21:48] <RoyK> or night
[21:51] <Error404NotFound> [offtopic] does anybody here use aws? if i create a custom ubuntu-lamp-postgresql and save it, would it cost me anything?
[21:53] <sanduz2> whats everyones take on ppa's in a server environment? i like having things up to date for obvious reasons but what might be the possible negatives?
[21:54] <sanduz2> as opposed to using the packages in the default repositories
[21:54] <Wavesonics> i just upgraded my server from 10.04 to 10.10 and now I'm getting this strange double info print when I login: http://pastebin.org/157485
[21:56] <sanduz2> Wavesonics, has it happened more than once?
[21:56] <Wavesonics> yes, i'm SSHing in and its happened on 2 different sessions
[21:57] <Wavesonics> ya it happens every time
[21:57]  * RoyK wants his 180 2TB drives to arrive soon
[21:58] <Nyxation> Jason,
[21:58] <Nyxation> The reason you cannot change the grouping properties on the items in Data Miner is due to the fact that this report uses an advanced, customized layout. If you go to Step 5 . Formatting Options, you.ll see a checkmark for Advanced Layout along with an Edit button that will take you to the report editor. You can disable Advanced Layout to scrap the current setup to unlock the grouping fields, but if you wish to then turn Advanced Layout back on to format
[21:58] <Nyxation> Tyler S. Merta
[21:58] <Nyxation> Conversion & Integration Specialist
[21:58] <Nyxation> MMD Systems, Inc.
[21:58] <Nyxation> Lord, right click, you fail me.
[21:58] <Nyxation> 1-800-631-5947 Option 1
[21:58] <Nyxation> www.mediadentusa.com
[21:59] <guntbert> Nyxation: wrong channel?
[21:59] <Wavesonics> sanduz2, ya it happens eveyr time, any clue as to why it might be?
[22:00] <Nyxation> guntbert: Wrong click.
[22:00] <guntbert> Nyxation: :)
[22:01] <sanduz2> Wavesonics, you can check to see if it happens on the server itself
[22:02] <sanduz2> if it doesnt happen then its probably on the client end
[22:02] <sanduz2> instead of the server
[22:02] <Wavesonics> hhmmm well it wasnt doing this b4 the upgrade just today
[22:02] <ClaesBas> I got it working now (with standard inodes instead of largefile4), that was that evening that.....
[22:02] <Wavesonics> it's a headless server and im off site so cant check right now :/
[22:02] <ClaesBas> Thank you all for the "support"!
[22:03] <sanduz2> good point, may be some bug when they work together, not sure. try to check it and if it doesnt happen on the server maybe you can try to update stuff on the client end
[22:12] <Wavesonics> how can i force it to regenerate the motd?
[22:14] <Aison> ldap fucked up after upgrade to 10.10 ^^
[22:25] <Wavesonics> is there a way i can force Ubuntu to regenerate the standard MOTD?
[22:25] <Wavesonics> w\ usage stats and such
[22:26] <yann2> on what version?
[22:26] <yann2> I remember a command I typed from a file called miscboot somewhere, that was for 8.4 though and it changed since
[22:27] <yann2> happy to look for it if thats what you re running :)
[22:31] <Wavesonics> 10.10
[22:32] <Wavesonics> yann2, ur still running 8.02? :p
[22:32] <Wavesonics> 8.04 I MEAN
[22:32] <Wavesonics> caps
[22:54] <yann2> sure, on many servers, still supported for another 2 1/2 years :)
[22:56] <yann2> is there a file where I can specify a static ARP resolution table?
[22:57] <RoyK> arp -s ?
[22:57] <RoyK> yann2: I don't there is a predefined one, but I'd guess using "up arp -s ....." in /etc/network/interfaces might do
[22:58] <yann2> am wondering about arp spoofing on KVM hosts using bridged networking
[22:59] <yann2> and of ways to prevent it
[23:00] <RoyK> the quick fix is to set static MAC addresses on the switch ports
[23:03] <_Techie_> does anybody know how to allow mod_proxy to proxy to an SSL enabled backend?
[23:04] <_Techie_> client ---(SSL)--->  apache2 ---(SSL)---> backend
[23:06] <willberg> Hi everyone. Running ubuntu 10.10 LTS server. Overnight my ssh server has stopped liking my main login, permission denied. I can still log in as another user, and then su to my user. So that means not a password issue. Not a firewall/port issue as ssh still works. Any reasons why, overnight, it stops liking a specific user? Any help greatly appreciated.
[23:10] <_Techie_> willberg, have you checked your sshd_config file?
[23:11] <willberg> _Techie_ Sorry, I found it... I put a comma after my username under AllowUsers - hence why latest user could still log in
[23:12] <_Techie_> willberg, glad you found the solution
[23:47] <sgrover> bash help?  Creating a backup script for a PostgreSQL database.  Logging output to a log file.  The log file (and directories containing it) are owned by "myuser:www-data".
[23:47] <sgrover> The script is running as a crontab entry for the "postgres" user.  Do I *need* to add "posgres" to the www-data group?  Or is there a better option?
[23:48] <sgrover> log file is in ../data/logs.  www-data needs write access to everything under ../data
[23:56] <ScottK> ivoks-afk: Are you coming to UDS?
[23:59] <jeeves_> why is this script not recursing the pages (and staying on the domain), and when I try to re-run the script, I get "<insert_url> already processed, skipping...."  http://pastebin.ca/1960490


[00:24] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/Vz8PK
[00:24] <rick_h_> interesting read
[01:15] <jrwren> i like hte last few paragraphs on firewalls.
[01:15] <jrwren> application firewalls are useless junk.
[01:15] <jrwren> they exists so vendors can sell more firewalls.
[01:26] <snap-l> jrwren: eh? What do you mean by app firewalls?
[01:32] <jrwren> we need a firewall in front of every webserver
[01:32] <jrwren> that mentality is wrong.
[01:32] <jrwren> radware application firewalls
[01:32] <jrwren> baracuda
[01:33] <jrwren> so i mean web app firewall
[01:33] <jrwren> not app firewall like apparmor
[01:33] <jrwren> apparmor is actually pretty sweet.
[01:33] <snap-l> I was thinking something like iptables
[01:33] <snap-l> that's really the extent of what you need
[01:34] <snap-l> Having a separate hardware firewall in front of every box is wasteful
[01:35] <jrwren> right
[01:35] <jrwren> but dont tell a radware salesperson that
[01:36] <snap-l> I'll tell a salesperson that
[01:36] <jrwren> they'll scare a poor it manager into buying'
[01:36] <snap-l> it's their job to convince me otherwise.
[01:36] <snap-l> It's highly unlikely they will, though. ;)
[01:38]  * snap-l sees a promising career as a crankly old man in his future.
[01:47] <jrwren> you are smart though.
[01:48] <jrwren> lots of people buy those things because they aren't smart enough to learn or listen to truth
[01:59] <snap-l> They see it as an easy way out
[01:59] <snap-l> It's snake-oil
[02:04] <jrwren> yup
[02:04] <jrwren> "but we spent $1M on security to prevent this kind of thing"
[02:04] <jrwren> and then the C levels probably believe that shit.
[02:04] <jrwren> HA!
[02:07]  * snap-l just picked up Reinventing the Steel by Pantera
[02:07] <snap-l> Album is 12 years old
[02:08] <snap-l> but I had such a bad taste in my mouth from The Great Southern Trendkill, I avoided this album
[11:37] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:40] <shakes808> mornign
[11:40] <shakes808> morning
[12:07] <shakes808> Amazon has some free music. Not sure what they all are, but I got them.  Oh, you mean samplers as in compilations
[12:10] <snap-l> I mean samplers in the "here's a collection of somewhat-related music
[12:10] <snap-l> yeah
[12:10] <shakes808> gotcha
[12:10] <shakes808> Yeah, I found a lot of bands that way as well.
[12:10] <brousch> I let snap-l find all my new bands for me
[12:10] <shakes808> Warped Tour, OzzFest and the like
[12:10] <shakes808> haha
[12:11] <brousch> You laugh, but it's basically true
[12:12] <snap-l> tghank you
[12:12] <snap-l> I'm flattered. :)
[12:13] <brousch> On average I find 1 new band from every episode of omc
[12:14] <shakes808> You need to Carpe Diem. Coming from a person that was formally in a few bands, you need to go and find them. There is a considerable amount of bands that aren't discovered just quite yet that you should try to see. I hear that GR is a great place for metal bands and you aren't that far from Chicago :D
[12:14] <shakes808> If I lived in GR I would be in Chicago A LOT lol
[12:14] <shakes808> How long is that drive?
[12:15] <brousch> I don't have time to listen to the music I have now. I see no reason to go find more
[12:18] <shakes808> lol
[12:18] <shakes808> There is always a reason to find more music ;)
[12:19] <shakes808> My CD collection is comprised of over 1000 CD and a few hundred-ish tapes. Not including what I had downloaded throughout the years from Napster and the like. Also sharing between my friends. I make it a point to rotate my songs :D
[12:34] <rick_h_> TGIF
[12:55] <brousch> rick_h_: Is your new toy coming today?
[12:55] <rick_h_> brousch: no, no word on shipping yet :(
[12:55] <rick_h_> looking like something went boom and it got bumped to next week, but we'll see
[12:55] <brousch> Hm, some people have been getting them
[12:56] <rick_h_> in that case I pissed as I reserved mine the first day on the 27th
[13:04] <snap-l> rick_h_: When is it supposed to arrive? (This is which toy?)
[13:05] <rick_h_> The Nexus 7 I pre-ordered
[13:05] <rick_h_> supposedly they're were supposed to be shipping the 12th
[13:06] <rick_h_> but stores are being asked to hold them back and something is going on with it
[13:06] <snap-l> You know exactly when it'll be released...
[13:06] <snap-l> ... Friday before PyOhio
[13:06] <rick_h_> lol
[13:07] <brousch> TIL you can make a proper apk package with SL4A. More fun for my talk.
[13:07] <snap-l> ENNie award nominations are out
[13:07] <snap-l> http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/326444-announcing-2012-gen-con-en-world-rpg-awards-nominees.html
[13:08] <snap-l> Kind of cool to see some stuff I like on that list.
[13:51] <jrwren> i almost asked what a apk package is :)
[13:53] <brousch> :P
[14:11] <brousch> You're welcome! http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/07/report_little_west_michigan_de.html
[14:11] <PainBank> question, does ubuntu come with the AIR runtime?
[14:13] <brousch> Adobe discontinued AIR for Linux
[14:14] <brousch> That was about 1 year ago, so any version of AIR is going to be old and crusty
[14:19] <PainBank> OR if Canonical wanted to, they could pay one of Adobe's partners to update that runtime, but it will always cost something, which isn't being done.  to no one's surprise here.
[14:19] <PainBank> thanks.
[14:21] <brousch> I say let AIR die, and Flash
[14:28] <snap-l> http://superuser.com/questions/447483/why-is-the-internet-said-to-be-an-untrusted-network
[14:28] <snap-l> PainBank: AIR is essentially DOA.
[14:29] <snap-l> I wouldn't do any new development for AIR
[14:29] <PainBank> I would agree with you snap-l although there is still a lot of momentum out there pushing it.  I wish it was DOA.
[14:29] <snap-l> PainBank: In what circles? Even the Twitterverse abandoned it. ;)
[14:30] <Milyardo> Dolphins aren't fish. Deceptive bastards.
[14:30] <PainBank> in the Adobe developer circles.
[14:30] <brousch> The only place I've seen it in the last year is a GUI app from a local company for Compass/SASS
[14:30] <snap-l> PainBank: Ah, there's your problem
[14:31] <PainBank> I know, I know.  I didn't hire the guy.
[14:31] <PainBank> :)
[14:31] <snap-l> PainBank: Once you get out of the dope smokers, you'll realize everyone doesn't do drugs. :)
[14:31] <PainBank> ya, but dolphins kick ass!
[14:31] <brousch> But do you mock him daily for his choice in development?
[14:31] <PainBank> snap-l: haha ture
[14:31] <PainBank> ture
[14:31] <PainBank> ture
[14:31] <PainBank> true
[14:31] <PainBank> I can't type worth a damn today
[14:32] <snap-l> PainBank: It's like ColdFusion
[14:32] <PainBank> ugh.
[14:32] <snap-l> I'm sure there's a bundle of them out there that still think it's a viable platform
[14:32] <PainBank> every time I see that name I cringe and I've never used it
[14:32] <snap-l> but at some point, you have to wonder why all of your meetings start with "how do we get more people here?"
[14:32] <PainBank> haha
[14:32] <PainBank> true
[14:34] <Milyardo> The graphic developer that we worked with somehow convinced our website admin that we chuck out our Drupal website for wordpress for the sole reason that it works with his Adobe Apps for development
[14:34] <Milyardo> I'm still baffled to this day how that happened
[14:35] <snap-l> Milyardo: Have you worked with Drupal? I'm not so sure why you're baffled. ;)
[14:35] <PainBank> jeez.. and you couldn't find a Drupal extension/plugin to do the interface to Adobe?
[14:35] <PainBank> snap-l: nice
[14:35] <Milyardo> No one but him had any complaints about working with Drupal
[14:35] <PainBank> but he was the boss?
[14:36] <Milyardo> No he contracted
[14:36] <Milyardo> doesn't even actually work for us
[14:36] <PainBank> even better
[14:37] <snap-l> As someone who set up Drupal, I don't think it was a hard sell.
[14:39] <Milyardo> Yeah I don't know, I mean Drupal isn't the most amazing framework, but replacing with Wordpress of all things dumbfounds me the most
[14:40] <snap-l> Milyardo: Yeah, I hear you.
[14:40] <snap-l> There's certain things Drupal does very well
[14:40] <brousch> Wordpress is actually very capable these days
[14:40] <snap-l> And that's why I use Wordpress. ;)
[14:41] <brousch> I still get annoyed by it
[14:42] <brousch> Mostly I get annoyed by the theming
[14:47] <PainBank> what is so hard about paying someone to generate the theme you want?
[14:47] <PainBank> it is easier than Drupal.
[14:48] <PainBank> ;p
[14:49] <brousch> Heh
[14:49] <Milyardo> I never found Drupal diffcult, just unsophisticated
[14:55] <Milyardo> Last month we had asked this same Designer to work with us on a J2EE/Spring/JPA/JSPX application, I haven't heard from him since
[14:57] <Milyardo> And speaking of Spring, last week I had the misfortune of fixing a Dojo bug, Dojo is a unholy mess
[15:01] <snap-l> Yeah, I think Dojo fell off the map hard
[15:02] <snap-l> Synced my Pragprog book list to Dropbox, and noticed I had Mastering Dojo in there
[15:02] <snap-l> I think I stopped thinking about Dojo the moment I bought the book.
[15:02] <PainBank> perhaps I missed something, what is the linke between Spring and Dojo?  are you talking about Dojo.js?
[15:07] <snap-l> yes
[15:07] <Milyardo> The Spring framework uses Dojo for alot of widgets is genereates in Spring MVC
[15:07] <PainBank> ah, gotcha now
[15:08] <PainBank> where spring is the server backend... that generates the html/js sent to the client?
[15:09] <PainBank> spring is part of the backend server I should say?
[15:09] <PainBank> I have been looking at Dojo.js just from the client aspect and creating a GUI using it without caring about a connection to the server side.
[15:18] <rick_h_> dojo ugh
[15:20] <rick_h_> ok, so now I'm pissed. I preorder for my N7 the night it's announced, and gamestop is handing them out like candy
[15:20] <rick_h_> except my local gamestop only has 1 and it's pre-ordered for someone else
[15:21] <brousch> They are in stores?
[15:22] <rick_h_> yea, evidently
[15:22] <rick_h_> guess gamestop has had them in stores for a week and for some reason today they allowed to sell them
[15:22] <rick_h_> but mainly only for people that did game stop pre-orders
[15:22] <brousch> Game Stop? WTF?
[15:23] <rick_h_> they didn't start taking pre-orders until July, so my June 27th pre-order from google has done me no good it appears...ok getting cranky
[15:24] <brousch> I will go to game stop at unch and buy one
[15:24] <rick_h_> I will drive to GR and steal it
[15:24] <rick_h_> faster, it appears, than sitting weeks on a google pre-order list
[15:26] <brousch> D00d, I could hit gamestop for Nexus 7 and then Pita House for some babaganoush
[15:28] <brousch> Heh, WTF. there are 2 gamestops in Grandville. They are about 1/4 mile apart
[15:28] <brousch> One in the mall, one outside of it
[15:29] <brousch> Oooh, Staples might have it too
[15:31] <brousch> I could hit 2 GameStops and a Staples at lunch and still have time for Pita House
[15:32] <Milyardo> There used be 3 Gamestops within 500 feet of each other in Flint
[15:32] <Milyardo> Now there's two
[15:32] <Milyardo> and a Disc Replay
[15:58] <jrwren> that doesn't look like downtown detroit, looks like midtown
[15:59] <jrwren> adobe developer circles are the only group i've found that is more nuts and illogical than microsoft devs.
[16:06] <jrwren> snap-l: go check out Inverse Phase - Pretty Eight Machine
[16:06] <jrwren> read a description of hte album
[16:07] <jrwren> its only $6.50 to buy from them.
[16:08] <jrwren> http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/album/pretty-eight-machine
[16:09] <waldo323_> anyone going to the pig and whiskey event in ferndale this weekend?
[16:09] <jrwren> nope.
[16:09] <jrwren> going to GR
[16:09] <waldo323_> to get a tablet? :)
[16:09] <jrwren> no
[16:10] <waldo323_> for those who want further details: http://metrotimes.com/pigandwhiskey
[16:26] <snap-l> jrwren: It's on my list.
[16:27] <snap-l> waldo323_: Told JODee about Pig and Whiskey.  He's no celebrity, just a nice dude who sells video games.
[16:36] <waldo323_> maybe not as a goh but maybe a vendor or something?
[16:36] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJhK_q3keCo
[16:36] <waldo323_> and maybe he'd just like to come to hang out?
[16:38] <snap-l> Damn, missed the CCAG Sow.
[16:41] <snap-l> Black Friday in July?
[16:41] <snap-l> (Meijer flyer)
[16:44] <jrwren>  i think it is super slow time of year.
[16:44] <jrwren> newegg has sent lots of emails lately too
[16:45] <snap-l> Yeah, Newegg's mails are getting on my nerves.
[16:45] <snap-l> I think I'm going to unsubscribe from them
[16:46] <snap-l> most of the "deals" are on things I've never heard of before
[16:46] <snap-l> I don't have if it's a 1TB SSD drive for $8, if it's by "screyo data" I'm not buying it.
[16:47] <jrwren> i would.
[16:47] <jrwren> i'm cheap.
[16:48]  * snap-l makes a note to make a bogus drive to sell to jrwren for cheap
[18:06] <brousch> rick_h_: You see this? http://blog.gittip.com/post/27072581481/i-believe-in-gittip
[19:02] <rick_h_> brousch: yes
[19:03] <brousch> Gutsy
[19:05] <rick_h_> well maybe there's hope https://twitter.com/googlenexus/status/223843243576664064
[19:13] <snap-l> Anyone run into automatic formatting with OpenPyXL and know how to turn that off?
[19:36] <brousch> rick_h_: http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/wibj8/all_nexus_7_preorders_to_ship_within_3_business/
[21:33] <gamerchick02> happy Friday.