[17:57] <m4v> do anyone know domedagen? is a recurring guy that time to time ask in our channels for somebody to do his Spanish homework in exchange of money.
[17:57] <Pici> The name doesn't ring a bell to me.
[18:18] <m4v> kk, he timed out before I could finish talking to him. he's not disruptive but it annoys me his use of our channels.


 People love I know, A cult classic!!
[21:49] <tdr112> me too
[21:49] <tdr112> never got it
[21:50] <tdr112> is it bad to say it way too english
[21:57] <chrono800> yes ;)
[21:57] <chrono800> I'm a londoner :)
[21:58] <chrono800> But raised in co.tipperary!! Talk about being an outsider!!
[21:59] <chrono800> hence I have dual nationality, so defend both english and irish culture.....! 8-)
[22:02] <chrono800> anyhow,  I'm getting animated now!! Can you help me out airurando?  How are you? :-X
[22:52] <tdr112> well i am not saying its bad its just miss out on the culture refences in the show
[23:00] <airurando> tdr112 do you remember chrono800? He was at skycon12 with me


 You guys have two Calamares desktop entries
 Like us
 Prob from package “Calamares”
 And why use a KDE parti manager? Does it use QT?
 Nice one! (re @Zachariah: Hey, the Reddit thing is getting some decent traction. Looks like we should have a few more testers soon.)
 yeah. we already have a task for that one (re @ItzSwirlz: You guys have two Calamares desktop entries)
 We have same issue too
 Don’t worry
 That and Calamares uses kpmcore, the same underpinnings that kde partition manager use. (re @ItzSwirlz: And why use a KDE parti manager? Does it use QT?)
 I have seen a problem since Ubuntu 18.04 and 19.10 on Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu.
 Now on Ubuntu 20.04 Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
 When I turn off the computer, the keyboard occasionally turns off the screen but the cpu is still on.
 I don't know if it's my mistake
 I could help with this. My primary language is Spanish and I'm more than happy helping with the translation of free software.
 Mi idioma principal es el Español y estoy más que dispuesto a ayudar con la traducción de programas de código abierto. (re @ForEverAlsius: )

 I could help on Monday. (re @Eickmeyer: If you wouldn't mind, feel free to do some translating on that: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntustudio/es/+translate)
 @Reinaldo_Espinosa I just did it with an online translation service. It should work, but feel free to look over my suggestions in that link.
 Done with testing Lubuntu for today
 Tomorrow we will check to see if there’s anything we need to backup before dual-booting it for test
 On a Mac
 Okay who to help next
 Thanks for giving it a test. (re @ItzSwirlz: Done with testing Lubuntu for today)
 A mí me gustaría dominar otro idioma como para poder ayudar a traducir, aquí hago uso de bots (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: I could help with this. My primary language is Spanish and I'm more than happy helping with the translation of free software.
 Mi idioma principal es el Español y estoy más que dispuesto a ayudar con la traducción de programas de código abierto.)
 One of the problems when you do so is that the translate not always  keep the context specially when it is about technology or technical details (re @Eickmeyer: @Reinaldo_Espinosa I just did it with an online translation service. It should work, but feel free to look over my suggestions in that link.)
 Are you using a translation not? (re @KajiiNarumiChat: A mí me gustaría dominar otro idioma como para poder ayudar a traducir, aquí hago uso de bots)
 Are you using a translation bot? (edited) (re @KajiiNarumiChat: A mí me gustaría dominar otro idioma como para poder ayudar a traducir, aquí hago uso de bots)
 @Reinaldo_Espinosa That was my concern. Feel free to change it. It was only two changes.
 Yes and Google (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Are you using a translation bot?)
 @YTranslateBot (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Are you using a translation bot?)
 I have to do it on Monday. Because I do not have enough internet at home. (re @Eickmeyer: @Reinaldo_Espinosa That was my concern. Feel free to change it. It was only two changes.)
 @Reinaldo_Espinosa Ok, I think that should be sufficient.
 If you think so. (re @Eickmeyer: @Reinaldo_Espinosa Ok, I think that should be sufficient.)
  (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Are you using a translation bot?)
 Monday will work, is what I meant. (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: If you think so.)
 Ahh ok (re @Eickmeyer: Monday will work, is what I meant.)
 I miss understand you
 My worry as a project leader is hitting deadlines. :)
 You are the leader of Ubuntu Studio? (re @Eickmeyer: My worry as a project leader is hitting deadlines. :))
 Yes. (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: You are the leader of Ubuntu Studio?)
 It's hard? (re @Eickmeyer: Yes.)
 Depends on the day. :) (re @KajiiNarumiChat: It's hard?)
 I see, my congratulations to all of you. (re @Eickmeyer: Depends on the day. :))
 Thanks. :) (re @KajiiNarumiChat: I see, my congratulations to all of you.)
 Good. (re @Eickmeyer: Yes.)
 Tal vez no sea algo muy importante, soy un optometrista, y él siempre recomendó usar una aplicación para recordar descansar los ojos. También para bajar el brillo.
 Maybe it is not something very important, I am an optometrist, and he always recommended using an applidogion to remember to rest your eyes. Also to lower the brightness.
 Maybe for health reasons it is a good idea that it comes integrated in Ubuntu
 But us not for everyone (re @KajiiNarumiChat: Maybe it is not something very important, I am an optometrist, and he always recommended using an applidogion to remember to rest your eyes. Also to lower the brightness.)
 But is not for everyone (edited) (re @KajiiNarumiChat: Maybe it is not something very important, I am an optometrist, and he always recommended using an applidogion to remember to rest your eyes. Also to lower the brightness.)
 Most of the people don't want to use it.
[00:46] <lotuspsychje> morning all
[00:49] <lotuspsychje> another article spread on my lxer rss https://9to5linux.com/ubuntu-20-04-lts-beta-is-now-available-for-download
[00:55] <guiverc> :)  noticed it too lotuspsychje
[00:55] <lotuspsychje> great article
[00:55] <guiverc> first boot of ubuntu 20.04 'live' in awhile; i like the 'smooth' look
[00:56] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: are you on -desktop?
[00:56] <guiverc> yep, got asked to retest a bug (that it was hoped was fixed), alas ..
[00:57] <lotuspsychje> can you test a quick one for me aswell please?
[00:57] <guiverc> yep.  (maybe a few mins, but yep)
[00:57] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1867613 please
[01:08] <guiverc> lotuspsychje, I'm only running a 'live' system, your bug looks like it needs an install. I can drag/drop icons in my 'live' session
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: did you move the dock to bottom for the test?
[01:09] <guiverc> Nope, I missed that sorry.. re-reading.
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: test switching the icons and drag from dash with the dock at bottom if you want
[01:19] <guiverc> lotuspsychje, Yes I'm having great difficulty with movement (failing 80-90% of time), when its on the left it's working 80-90% of the time..
[01:20] <lotuspsychje> yeah thats exactly whats happening guiverc tnx and affect plz : )
 how to make ISO
 Google: Here's how to make a bootable USB
[02:29] <guiverc> @KaiLoveLinux, https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/create-a-bootable-usb-stick-on-ubuntu/14011
[02:29] <guiverc> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/create-a-bootable-usb-stick-on-windows/14020
[02:29] <guiverc> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/create-a-bootable-usb-stick-on-macos/14016
 Thanks you gave me the exact thing I don't want. Thank you.
 Let's please not be toxic.
 again-to make it a lot easier, I suggest you just find a way and get the packages to Launchpad. Things will be a lot more easier to iso-build
 I'm not, being sarcastic isn't the same as toxic
 Sorry
 Anyways I feel glad I helped out today. Will do more Cinnamon playing, logged around the system info patch today.
 You have been a great help Josh, everyone in the community has been supportive, and I thank y'all.
 I just clicked my KDE start button, typed in "usb" and clicked on Make Startup Disk. It finds the last ISO you downloaded and your USB drive. Just click start, wait a few minutes and it's done.
 Even guiverc spent the time to find resources, even if I didn't need them
 But all flavors have the USB startup disk creator.
 Or at least a usb disk creator/editing tool. (re @Zachariah: But all flavors have the USB startup disk creator.)
 I'm not sure which one to add for Ubuntu Lumina yet, but the one everyone needs to remind me the name of that starts with g and is powerful is the one I might use
 gnome-disk-creator or something like that. I'll find a QT one.
 I'll check what Lubuntu uses
 Not gnome-disk-utility
 uhhh
 GPARTED
 There. That's disk partitioning
 since I remember it I will add it now
 Lmao
 There is a QtParted
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QtParted
 Well I have gparted
 And sure enough it's not in the repos for universe. Something that we might want to consider maintaining
 Gparted will be fine for now.
 Gparted will be fine for now, it's accessible (edited)
 Oh yeah-KDE Partition Manager is what Lubuntu uses
 @KaiLoveLinux Use KDE Partition Manager
 QtParted is outdated and prob discontinued-last update was 7y ago
 I am using Gparted as I like it beter
 better*
 I am stuck trying to make the ISO file, still digging to see if Google will ever be useful
 Use balena etcher (re @KaiLoveLinux: I am stuck trying to make the ISO file, still digging to see if Google will ever be useful)
 Its easy and intuitive
 I thank you for trying, but I feel like I need to explain more: I need to make the ISO for Ubuntu Lumina, something Etcher cannot not do. Love Etcher though, my favorite app. (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Use balena etcher)
 Ahh. I was thinking you need to make a bootable usb (re @KaiLoveLinux: I thank you for trying, but I feel like I need to explain more: I need to make the ISO for Ubuntu Lumina, something Etcher cannot not do. Love Etcher though, my favorite app.)
 Yeah, no. Thanks anyways, I have an option to quick test so I can see if it works or not
[03:56] <valorie> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization <-- how to make a custom ISO
 @KaiLoveLinux when you first started this conversation you said "Google: How to make startup USB". That made all of us thinking that's what you wanted. You want to build a custom ISO. I know how to make bootable ISO files and could have helped you had I truly understood what you meant.
 Zachariah Yeah no problem, I am not perfect at explaining my issues
 however I am still stuck so
 Valorie gave me a good insight but was not what I needed sadly, as I made my distro from live system
 Do you have all of the files destined for the ISO in a folder?
[04:35] <valorie> @KaiLoveLinux - huh? How do you get this live system onto a computer?
[04:35] <valorie> it's got to be cd/dvd/usb
 As dumb as this sounds there is a Windows program that might be able to build your ISO.
[04:35] <valorie> which means: ISO
[04:35] <valorie> which is the link I gave you
 Zachariah The only Windows system I can access is my grandfathers and I am only allowed telegram on it.
 Valorie: I installed from USB to hardware partition on my drive, and so none of that is helpful for me, sadly. Just how I set it up.
[04:37] <valorie> ah, I thought you wanted to make something you could share with others
[04:37] <valorie> my mistake
 I am, but I did it from Live System as I have done LFS and shipped that, sadly that was when Linux-Live wasn't practically dead
[04:40] <valorie> one shares ISOs
 When you say you made your ISO from a live system, do you mean you used files from a live system or you literally captured a running live system?
 What I mean is everything is set up on a live system, ready for me to put in an ISO, just the tools i'd normally use are in a non-functional state and I am having a hard time finding new ones.
 Like... all my tools that'd I have ever used
 I have someone I might be able to ask for help with this, brb
[04:48] <valorie> so confused
 I made a flavor, used an installed ISO to set everything up, everything was set up, went to make an ISO, ISO making not work
 I have been working on this for 10 hours now and brain just stop workin
  (re @philipz: someone commented on OMG that testing in virutalbox doesnt work as there is a xorg bug)same problem.:
 after selecting Ubuntu On Wayland, it works though. (re @rajkumaar23: )
 Bug #1870726
 I figured out how to build the ISO i think
 now to solve a new problem
 Past midnight, almost 13 hours of working now
 idk why but I like this fact
 if I ctrl-alt-3 to get a command line, the fonts are extremely large - any one knows how to fix that ?
 perhaps something to do when I played with scaling last night ?
 will try to report a bug: scaling to 125% takes me to 200%
 Bug report:
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1870736
 Good morning everyone. How is testing going?
 lmao imagine being able to test rn
 @popeydc Actual answer that is not sarcastic: Poorly for my thing, everyone else's stuff works well on my laptop.
 No issues to report, which makes me hapy
 Not my best day (testing wise; a failure I didn't expect), but mostly good & G'day @popeydc
 Just getting the testing VM's setup for a lazy Saturday playing...I mean serious testing:
 I need to report one more wrt screen scaling
  select 125% gives 200%
 select 150% results in a blank screen and my monitor going into powersave
 @MrPer4280 Flavor? Or plain?
 @KaiLoveLinux   plain - upgrading from 16.04 -> 18.04 -> 19.10 -> 20.04
  (re @Eickmeyer: Translation clearly isn't done yet. 🤦♂)
 sweet (re @Zachariah: Hey, the Reddit thing is getting some decent traction. Looks like we should have a few more testers soon.)
 i am gonna use this saturday to not die
 afternoon lotuspsychje
 unforutately xubuntu doesn't (re @Zachariah: But all flavors have the USB startup disk creator.)
 which app is this? (re @GlennTF: )
 welcome @katnipp
 This is VMware Workstation Pro, it allows remote access over the network to the VMs so I'm spinning them all up on the big rig so I can acces them on my laptop while relaxing on the sofa later 🙂 (re @philipz: which app is this?)
 did you file a bug for this? (re @KajiiNarumiChat: )
 nice (re @GlennTF: This is VMware Workstation Pro, it allows remote access over the network to the VMs so I'm spinning them all up on the big rig so I can acces them on my laptop while relaxing on the sofa later 🙂)
 @Eickmeyer maybe you should try and contact the translation team as simplified chinese seems to all be done but none have been reviewed for the installer slideshow:
 Bug about scaling to 150%  resulting in a monitor power save starte has been reported
 great
[10:33] <lotuspsychje> @philipz hi there ; )
 thanks everyone who tweeted the #UbuntuTestingWeek hashtag. keep up the good work.
 welcome @goddiey
 Thanks (re @philipz: welcome @goddiey)
 hmm - I have lost all sound, perhaps I messed with something, though I don't think so
 which flavor are you planning to test (re @goddiey: Thanks)
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> @philipz: i liked this article: https://9to5linux.com/ubuntu-20-04-lts-beta-is-now-available-for-download
 lotuspsychje: saw it but didnt see anything in it worth retweeting it
 welcome @shivank_here @gioisco
 Tnk 😊 (re @philipz: welcome @shivank_here @gioisco)
 @gioisco which flavor are you looking to test
 @philipz any idea why this happens? (re @ubuntutesting_bot: [irc] <ubot5> bug 1870726 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Login Screen Loop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870726)
 The xorg log shows a backtrace, so a segfault (re @rajkumaar23: @philipz any idea why this happens?)
 Philips I'm not a tester, but I'm here for looking for understand how to do this (sorry for my English) (re @philipz: @gioisco which flavor are you looking to test)
 @gioisco no problem. which ubuntu flavor are you looking to try. is it ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, etc.
 ohh (re @RikMills: The xorg log shows a backtrace, so a segfault)
 I currently use Ubuntu for work and Kubuntu for personal (re @philipz: @gioisco no problem. which ubuntu flavor are you looking to try. is it ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, etc.)
 instructions for testing kubuntu are found here - https://kubuntu.org/news/testing-for-the-beta-help-needed/
 ubuntu testing is here - https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/testing-ubuntu-20-04-lts-official-ubuntu-flavors/14053
 there are a number of videos that you can watch of others showing how to do the testing
 here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0i8IgD6vg8
 So @KaiLoveLinux , your trying to make an ISO of your current build of Ubuntu?
 Yeah it doesn't exactly work that way...
 @gioisco here is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLiqjOkSmg
 ❤
 some tweets that can be retweeted
 https://twitter.com/franksmcb1/status/1246304744349425666
 https://twitter.com/bad_idea_dude/status/1246409738604228608
 @gioisco this is a good one when you want to report a bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTyzyY9RHw
 ❤
 What version of Virtualbox? (re @rajkumaar23: ohh)
 Honestly, try to go with the most stable... my friend all of a sudden (has his own built gaming desktop PC) has VBox stuck on an issue that we can't fix (re @RikMills: What version of Virtualbox?)
 That'd be my answer
 5.2.34 (re @RikMills: What version of Virtualbox?)
 I installed using apt (re @ItzSwirlz: Honestly, try to go with the most stable... my friend all of a sudden (has his own built gaming desktop PC) has VBox stuck on an issue that we can't fix)
 No, I am asking them what version they are using where Xorg crashes on login (re @ItzSwirlz: Honestly, try to go with the most stable... my friend all of a sudden (has his own built gaming desktop PC) has VBox stuck on an issue that we can't fix)
 is virtualbox in apt updated anymore? I remember virtualbox in apt being outdated. (re @rajkumaar23: I installed using apt)
 oh, didn’t know that. (re @ItzSwirlz: is virtualbox in apt updated anymore? I remember virtualbox in apt being outdated.)
 I don't think VBox interferes with that, except for Monitor settings (re @RikMills: No, I am asking them what version they are using where Xorg crashes on login)
 Vbox has it's own virtual graphics adapter and kernel modules, so it certainly CAN (re @ItzSwirlz: I don't think VBox interferes with that, except for Monitor settings)
 Oh right. It has it's own postinstall
 Why not the 6.x version? (re @rajkumaar23: 5.2.34)
 and it needs secure boot
 i told i installed using apt 😅
 i’ll download the latest from their page n try again (re @RikMills: Why not the 6.x version?)
 @rajkumaar23 Can you pleas mention on the bug what Virualbox version you are running, and where you got it
 sure i’ll update the version. but what do you mean by where i got it? (re @RikMills: @rajkumaar23 Can you pleas mention on the bug what Virualbox version you are running, and where you got it)
 @rajkumaar23 Can you please mention on the bug what Virualbox version you are running, and where you got it (edited)
 oh the vbox?
 Yes. (re @rajkumaar23: oh the vbox?)
 sure (re @RikMills: Yes.)
 Vbox, just like Eclipse is one of those packages that I famously know for being outdated and not maintained well. (re @RikMills: @rajkumaar23 Can you please mention on the bug what Virualbox version you are running, and where you got it)
 well it is maintained well
 There are 3 or 4 ways of getting a virtualbox install
 Just not updated
 @RikMills in case you hadnt seen this, someone had reported it here as well (re @philipz: someone commented on OMG that testing in virutalbox doesnt work as there is a xorg bug)
 Another bug report, or just here? (re @philipz: @RikMills in case you hadnt seen this, someone had reported it here as well)
 presume its the same bug
 Report Bug
 Sounds likely, but what I mean is did THEY report it on launchpad? (re @philipz: presume its the same bug)
 updated. (re @RikMills: @rajkumaar23 Can you please mention on the bug what Virualbox version you are running, and where you got it)
 Thanks
 @Eickmeyer tried to reply to the person on OMG to ask them to report it, but he's not sure whether his reply will get past moderation
 Ok, thanks. I just wondered if there was another LP bug to link/dupe to this one
 and why isn’t wayland the default ?  btw im a noob here
 So has anyone tested main Ubuntu beta in Virtualbox 6.x?
 Not yet only VMware so far but I'll give it a try now (re @RikMills: So has anyone tested main Ubuntu beta in Virtualbox 6.x?)
 So has anyone tested main Ubuntu beta in Virtualbox 6.x? Any login issue on installed system? (edited)
 Curious if it is specific to the 5.x vbox builds, or wider issue.
 Flavours seem to work here ok on 5.x, but I am using the upstream testing git builds of vbox so not a fair comparison
 ubuntu tweeted - https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/1246418547804459017
 Darktable compiles and runs on 20.04 just fine - sweet 😊
 😊 (re @philipz: ubuntu tweeted - https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/1246418547804459017)
 correction: retweeted with comment glenn's tweet :D
 On a clean install of VB 6.1.4 it works fine, no issues with the lock screen, auto login also works (re @RikMills: Curious if it is specific to the 5.x vbox builds, or wider issue.)
 Manual login from gdm also fine? (re @GlennTF: On a clean install of VB 6.1.4 it works fine, no issues with the lock screen, auto login also works)
 Yep perfect (re @RikMills: Manual login from gdm also fine?)
 Ok, if for some reason it is only bugged with vbox 5.x, then would explain why it might not have been picked up until now
 I uninstalled 6.1.4 and installed 5.2.38 which is listed as the latest 5.2 release and the VM worked identically to 6.1
 Well, that shows it can work ok in 5.x. The default graphic adapter setting changed in 6.x, so using a VM created in that in 5.x may not be a fair comparison.
 Anyway, appears not to be a critical bug with default 6.x, so not the hugest issue
 That's a fair point (re @RikMills: Well, that shows it can work ok in 5.x. The default graphic adapter setting changed in 6.x, so using a VM created in that in 5.x may not be a fair comparison.)
 https://twitter.com/ItzSwirlz/status/1246429497752256512

 For cinnamon-remix, should it be displayed as that or for system info, is this fine?
 @rajkumaar23 see if upgrading to vbox 5.2.38 solves the issue
 just installed 6.1 😳 (re @philipz: @rajkumaar23 see if upgrading to vbox 5.2.38 solves the issue)
 and is it working fine?
 going to test. will post.
 Apparently Cinnamon has a screen reader
 Looks like for testing its time to install a LM iso
 you mean ocra?
 Talking to me or Rajkumar?
 Ah orca is the package for screen reader
 I’m just trying to figure out how to use it and I believe I found a bug but I want to confirm it through LM first
 ocra is the screen reader used by all distros i believe, as i used it with ubuntu mate
 I can’t even find a video of someone using it
 I’ll follow mate instructions
 let me see if i can find one
 What key is super on Mac?
 There’s Ubuntu mate QA screen reader task (re @philipz: let me see if i can find one)
 command I think (re @ItzSwirlz: What key is super on Mac?)
 It is cmd
 It will open start but screen reader doesn’t work with cinnamon
 And there’s no outlog in console
 Two issue so far
 I’ll have to write this down. Brb
 https://youtu.be/3krdIy2_sZs?t=1040 (re @ItzSwirlz: I can’t even find a video of someone using it)
 On Cinnamon
 On Cinnamon DE (edited)
 In LM 4.4.5 there isn’t a prob
 With screen reader
 But it’s 19.3-I’ll update
 So it looks like for keyboard, you need to turn off then o min again for changes to make place
 I don’t know if that’s a bug but whatever
 Screen reader on mac I’ll have to see what LM currently has for latest
 Apparently my settings crashed
 Changing time
 i have a silly doubt. shouldn't that be some are proprietary or is my engish wrong ? 🙆🏼♂:
  (edited)i have a silly doubt. shouldn't that be some are proprietary or is my english wrong ? 🙆🏼♂:
 I don’t know
 Also I got a crash in cinnamon-settings and I have no idea what happened and can’t seem to replidoge it, should I still file a bug?
 Clicking everywhere and can’t seem to do anythi Nd
 yes that is correct. you should file that bug :D (re @rajkumaar23: )
 @popeydc are you on facebook, as i cant find you
 nice. thanks 😁 (re @philipz: yes that is correct. you should file that bug :D)
 only negative thing about a fix for that typo is that translators will have to fix it as well
 but it looks weird when we read. isn't it ? (re @philipz: only negative thing about a fix for that typo is that translators will have to fix it as well)
 but it looks weird when we read. doesn't it ? (edited) (re @philipz: only negative thing about a fix for that typo is that translators will have to fix it as well)
 Prob not going to file bug, prob a glitch
 definitely does in english and bug should definitely be filed. (re @rajkumaar23: but it looks weird when we read. doesn't it ?)
 Most beautiful extension ever, a watermark for your distro on cinnamon

 okayy. where do i do that from web? (re @philipz: definitely does in english and bug should definitely be filed.)
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity
 thanks. (re @philipz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity)
 that link is for all problems in the installer
 got it. (re @philipz: that link is for all problems in the installer)
 Ubuntu Cinnamon doesn’t come with a calendar applidogion, should I add one?
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1670268
 been there for 3 years now 🥺 (re @philipz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity)
 Folks, why the focal beta tests are archived, can someone pls help?
 I do not know how (re @philipz: did you file a bug for this?)
 Noob alert ☺
 @philipz there is an explanation on the context why it is IS 🙆🏼♂ (re @rajkumaar23: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1670268
 been there for 3 years now 🥺)
 Don't be roof (re @S4ik4t: Noob alert ☺)
 you can do it here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper (re @KajiiNarumiChat: I do not know how)
 That's for my query (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Don't be roof)
 can you explain this a bit more (re @S4ik4t: Folks, why the focal beta tests are archived, can someone pls help?)
 This one (re @S4ik4t: Folks, why the focal beta tests are archived, can someone pls help?)
 Sure (re @philipz: can you explain this a bit more)
 @rajkumaar23 lol
 I tried, but I could not understand everything they asked for. (re @philipz: you can do it here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper)

 Because the beta is out (re @S4ik4t: Folks, why the focal beta tests are archived, can someone pls help?)
 in the live session, open the terminal and type 'ubuntu-bug casper' (re @KajiiNarumiChat: I tried, but I could not understand everything they asked for.)
 Ok, so I need to only test the daily ISO? (re @RikMills: Because the beta is out)
 The beta milestone entry is for QA testing the images that MIGHT become the beta.
 @KajiiNarumiChat then it will launch the web browser and submit the bug, but you'll have to log into your launchpad.net account to complete it
 Its so easy to do. (re @philipz: @KajiiNarumiChat then it will launch the web browser and submit the bug, but you'll have to log into your launchpad.net account to complete it)
 You can test the beta iso, but please report any bugs to launchpad. (re @S4ik4t: Ok, so I need to only test the daily ISO?)
 Testing the daily is also useful
 Ok thanks (re @RikMills: You can test the beta iso, but please report any bugs to launchpad.)
 I’m playing with Ubuntu cinnamon and my god
 It’s a masterpiece
 So beautiful
 Sorry, I imagine it is as easy for you as for me to graduate glasses (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Its so easy to do.)
 But as soon as I get there I'll try
 wth?

 Does this have to do with the way our ISO is built?
 I know the permissions are wrong but I’ll see if I can change it
 Root owns Calamares desktop file, that could be why-it may have locked desktop folder
 It's Ubuntu Cinnamon an official flavour of Ubuntu @philipz ?
 not official yet, its a remix
 No, but it would like to be. (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: It's Ubuntu Cinnamon an official flavour of Ubuntu @philipz ?)
 similar to ubuntu mate and ubuntu budgie before they become officila
 No
 It’s a remix
 But we have A LOT of work to flavor status
 I need to help maintain cinnamon in Debian and make sure Ubuntu cinnamon is as clean as I can get it to
 Yes it is. I’m able to login (re @philipz: and is it working fine?)
 So far it’s pretty slick
 And good
 Great :) (re @rajkumaar23: Yes it is. I’m able to login)
 When I tested Kubuntu it was clean
 @rajkumaar23 i added a comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1670268/comments/12
 I loved it actually
 By the way, does someone know why KDE uses 500 MB ram and my cinnamon uses about  it 1 GB, almost 2?
  (re @ItzSwirlz: I loved it actually)
 I don’t do wine or Champaign, sorry man (re @RikMills: )
 Or beer
 :P
 Because KDE devs have done a lot of work to make it so. Especially as they have been working on plasma mobile stuff. (re @ItzSwirlz: By the way, does someone know why KDE uses 500 MB ram and my cinnamon uses about  it 1 GB, almost 2?)
 I’ll look at LM
 Fairly sure that is whiskey :P (re @ItzSwirlz: I don’t do wine or Champaign, sorry man)
 nice 👍🏼 (re @philipz: @rajkumaar23 i added a comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1670268/comments/12)
 And what they get
 isn't the linux mint team doing the work for cinnamon in debian as they have LMDE
 Yeah I don’t do that either sorry (re @RikMills: Fairly sure that is whiskey :P)
 That's fine. I'll have yours. ;) (re @ItzSwirlz: Yeah I don’t do that either sorry)
 And any issues I got was just a glitch
 So I’m good XD
 optimization i presume (re @ItzSwirlz: By the way, does someone know why KDE uses 500 MB ram and my cinnamon uses about  it 1 GB, almost 2?)
 well someone somehow got like 500 on LM and a GB on UC (re @philipz: optimization i presume)
 isn’t still a bug? (re @RikMills: Great :))
 Mint has its own special tools like mintsystem
 They probably fiddle around with those stuff
 Without desk let’s and extra customization on a dummy account I get 1.8 GB
 With people moving from 4 GB to 8 GB it shouldn’t be a big deal.
 you should check the startup and daemons that are running (re @ItzSwirlz: well someone somehow got like 500 on LM and a GB on UC)
 @ItzSwirlz there is no shame in being abstinent from alcohol. It's really not good for you. The reason red wine is mildly good for you is due to the ellagic acid from the grapes.

 For me it steadies around 1960 MB.
 here you can see xubuntu vs kubuntu:
 taken from https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/10/23/bold-prediction-kde-will-steal-the-lightweight-linux-desktop-crown-in-2020/#3591e32a26d2
 And that’s configuration.
 Is there a tool for limiting system ram being used?
 How could I help? (re @ItzSwirlz: I need to help maintain cinnamon in Debian and make sure Ubuntu cinnamon is as clean as I can get it to)
 But truly a lots happening

 Find bugs. (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: How could I help?)
 @ItzSwirlz this was at you. not sure if you replied (re @philipz: isn't the linux mint team doing the work for cinnamon in debian as they have LMDE)
 I will make debdiff a to patch them
 Yes (re @philipz: isn't the linux mint team doing the work for cinnamon in debian as they have LMDE)
 I sometimes see clement uploading things in Salsa for cinnamon
 But I can’t speak for thy at
 But I can’t speak for that (edited)

 I’ve also noticed that in meta from the elementary fork extra apps got installed and I will hunt them down for 20.10
 And they probably contribute to this mess
 I mean in a long term not just on this testing week. (re @ItzSwirlz: Find bugs.)
 Elementary is putting Pantheon on Debian Upstream? (re @ItzSwirlz: And they probably contribute to this mess)
 Oh! It’s complidoged and there’s many things... join t.me/ubuntucinnamon Dev (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: I mean in a long term not just on this testing week.)
 Ugh can’t edit
 t.me/ubuntucinnamondev
 No-we forked our meta from elementary (re @Reinaldo_Espinosa: Elementary is putting Pantheon on Debian Upstream?)
 Already talked to someone from the release team, which kinda trumps the translation team. I forwarded some suggestions to the translation team, so hopefully that will get integrated. (re @philipz: )
 The following need support for today's testcases:
 Kubuntu
 Ubuntu
 Kylin
 Studio
 Xubuntu
 Budgie, MATE and Lubuntu already got some help.
 By the way, the date is amazing:
 20-2004-04
 20 as in 2020
 4-04 as in 404
 2004 as in our release
 xD
 i am (re @philipz: @popeydc are you on facebook, as i cant find you)
 I try not to use it much
 I'll take care of Ubuntu Desktop for today
 (amd64)
  (re @popeydc: i am)wanted to @ you but couldnt find you:
 now i found you :D
 I'm popeydc there too :)
 strange that i still cant @ you
 my account is quite locked down.
 thought it might be that
 Before placing a new ISO on a USB, is it necessary to erase EVERYTHING from the USB? Or do we just have to delete the data
 I use YUMI on windows and you dont have to erase the usb
 Ok
 someone just reported this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1870265
 guess i should be more specific, they just notified us at xubuntu that it also happens on the beta iso
 I use Disks in Ubuntu which just nukes what's on there (re @ItzSwirlz: Before placing a new ISO on a USB, is it necessary to erase EVERYTHING from the USB? Or do we just have to delete the data)
 As does the stock startup disk creator found in flavours. (re @popeydc: I use Disks in Ubuntu which just nukes what's on there)
 Same
 But what I mean is that, before I put on the ISO, I literally
 Format the ISO and remove everything-use the slow option, overwrite everything in zeroes.
 OMG
 LOL
 On mac for the flicker-free boot, there is no icon
 no
 So its just ubuntu on the bottom and a spinny thing in the middle lol
 you do not need to do any of that
 just put the stick in, open disks, choose restore, point to an iso image, follow prompts. no wipe needed
 Okay. Thanks

 Just no icon for mac, and I just find this to be an interesting discovery
 Anything you want me to test in Ubuntu Live Session?
 Wow. So much extra RAM being used on cinnamon-remix that it looks like Ubuntu uses less.
 It's about the same
[15:47] <lotuspsychje> @Itzswirlz: are you in -desktop live right now?
 Yes
 Amd64 on a MacBook Pro from like 3 years ago
[15:48] <lotuspsychje> @Itzswirlz: please also test bug #1867613
[15:48] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1867613
 Okay. Thanks
 I’m actually gonna bike now but I will
[15:49] <lotuspsychje> ok hf
 всем привет
 моя убунта катастрофеееее
[15:59] <lotuspsychje> welcome @AlexeyNikitin01 we speak english here
 kubuntu  katastrofe
[16:02] <lotuspsychje> @AlexeyNikitin01: elaborate please whats not working exactly?
 rdp  reset server
 rdp and  kvm   crash
 2 problem
[16:04] <lotuspsychje> @AlexeyNikitin01: ok, did you file bugs about this?
 ???
[16:05] <lotuspsychje> !bug

 xrdp
 no restart   linux
[16:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> !ru | @AlexeyNikitin01
 /join@ubuntutesting_bot
 /join@ubuntutesting_bot
 /join#ubuntu-ru
 Это только на английском языке группы. Пожалуйста, присоединяйтесь к #ubuntu-ru на IRC за помощью.
 please stop fiddling with the bot
 welcome @electragician
 Hi there, and thanks! (re @philipz: welcome @electragician)
 which ubuntu flavor are you looking to test
 kubuntu 20.04 Log Xrdp all is well.
 Next, select restart. No reboot, black screen.
 Another problem, iKVM login, everything works.
 Next we enter Xrdp, a black screen.
 If you make an Xrdp login, and then log in again from another Xrdp computer, then everything is fine.
 to whom to send a log?
 Does anyone else have an issue with stretched desktop image thumbs on 20.04?:
 No
 really? interesting. i have gnome tweaks installed and im not sure if its causing it
 ive been running the daily for about 6 weeks, and its been there since
 I have KDE
 👍 (re @AlexeyNikitin01: I have KDE)
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1867613 I confirm bug.
[17:09] <WausauBill34> I downloaded the Kubuntu 20.04 beta and have it on a USB, went to install it on an old Windows 7 machine I have, but the installer is not recognizing there is already an operating system on the disk, I thought it was supposed to...
 @ItzSwirlz i assume you are not talking about my issue right? you referring to someone else? thanks
 you lotus?
 lotuspschyje?
 lotuspsychje? (edited)
 This is the bug with the icons not moving downwards to the bottom
 thats why i asked, mines a different one, np
 k
 just trying to ascertain if it is actually bigworthy, or if its just me
 just trying to ascertain if it is actually bug-worthy, or if its just me (edited)
 uhm
 if super key on mac is the command
 its not opening up activities
 Not set by default for me,
 Okay-on Mac, pressing Super does not open up Search menu. This is under ubuntu-desktop package, yes @popeydc ?
 WausauBill34: it definitely is supposed to
[17:48] <WausauBill34> The only guided install option I get is for the whole disk
 WausauBill34: how many hard disks do you have in your machine?
[17:51] <WausauBill34> Just one
[17:51] <oerheks> check bios, is SATA controller set to AHCI, not RAID
 strange that it only gives the option to use entire disk
 you should check gparted to see what it sees
 Ok, so I managed to get Starcraft II to run on K-20.04, but it is nowhere near as fast as on my 18.04 running on exactly the same hardware. My 18.04 bottoms out at 32FPS and never becomes unplayable, wheras on 20.04 got all the way down to <2, which was completely unplayable. I know that gaming is not a huge priority, but I'm big on proving that you can game just fine, if not bett
 is it running native or through wine or steam
 is this on the open source or proprietary driver
 Through WineHQ-Staging 5.5. Proprietary nVidia driver. It probably wouldn't even run the menus on Nouveau!
 GTX 1070 FTW2
 Core i5-8600K at stable 4.7GHz
 well less than 2 fps would sound like something you'd get on nouveau :D
 not sure what to file that against
 I've seen 2FPS on my i5-9400F.
 in Windows
 @RikMills @Sick_Rimmit any thoughts
 /me testing sc2 shortly...
[18:42] <RikMills> could be driver, could be mesa, could be kernel
[18:42]  * RikMills shrugs
 anyway for Zachariah to downgrade to previous driver, mesa and kernel from 18.04
 This is on a totally separate SSD. My 18.04 system is intact and running.
 i'm aware. just wondering how you could eliminate the other variable possibilities
 which @RikMills was mentioning
 I am using nVidia 430 on my 18.04 box. Looks like 20.04 went with 440. Don't know if that's the issue. There are indeed a lot of variables. I just want to make you guys aware that I have discovered this, and I will apply your ideas to try and track down the issue.
 are there any lower nvidia driver version numbers available in 20.04 that you can try
 Worst case I can manually install the driver just like I used to back in the day. I remember having to download the .run file and watch all the .'s go by as it installed. It usually filled the whole screen with progress dots.
 Unfortunately I have 5 projects hanging over my head and I have to spend the whole weekend developing.
 did you reply to this? (re @philipz: is it running native or through wine or steam)
 WineHQ-Staging 5.5
 my bad :D
 using this same version on 18.04?
 Zachariah - if the 430 driver installs on 20.04, it would be a good place to start looking
 But I think I am using Staging-5.3 on my 18.04 system. @MrPer4280 I didn't look to see what other driver versions were available in the Driver Manager.
 well that would be the first variable i'd check
 sometimes regressions happen between wine versions
 True dat
 wine-staging 5.5, nvidia 440.64, 1080 card runs SC2 @ 4k all settings maxed, frame rates mid 30's to mid 50's.
 is that on kubuntu?
  (re @DarinMiller: wine-staging 5.5, nvidia 440.64, 1080 card runs SC2 @ 4k all settings maxed, frame rates mid 30's to mid 50's.)
 yes, kubuntu
 guess that eliminates some portion of the variables
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1870820
 @DarinMiller thank you for that. I must have failed to configure Winetricks correctly. Did you enable Vulkan?
 no vulkan, but I will  try it soon as I figure out how to do it...
 Ubuntu Cinnamon installed on Mac, Calamares FTW :)


[22:05] <Shadow__X> how do i fix my motd?
[22:09] <Shadow__X> to clarify nothing is showing up
[22:14] <Patrickdk> fix?
[22:15] <Shadow__X> nothing is showing up in my motd
[22:15] <Patrickdk> motd is just a text file
[22:15] <Patrickdk> edit it
[22:20] <Shadow__X> yes but there is a package that normally updates it
[22:20] <Shadow__X> so it will let me know if there are updates for example
[22:29] <Patrickdk> if it's installed
[22:29] <Patrickdk> update-motd
[22:29] <Patrickdk> and if it's configured to do something
[22:30] <Shadow__X> sorry let me start over
[22:30] <Shadow__X> update-motd used to work and i am not sure why it stopped working
[22:31] <Shadow__X> it used to display info such as my ubuntu version package updates and mythtv-status
[22:31] <Shadow__X> now it no longer displays such information
[22:38] <tgm4883> Shadow__X, are you talking about mythtv-status?
[22:41] <Shadow__D> tgm4883: yes
[22:41] <tgm4883> Shadow__D, it doesn't work with 0.25
[22:42] <tgm4883> we're waiting on an upstream fix
[22:42] <Shadow__D> oh
[22:43] <Shadow__D> my motd is still not updating putting the mythtv status issue aside. I reconfigured update-motd ill reboot and see if that worked
[22:43] <Shadow__D> or is there a way to test it without updating


[01:52] <dbungert> mwhudson: do you know if we have some sort of scripting that checks if a package is lto out of date?  If not I have one started
[01:52] <mwhudson> dbungert: not sure what you mean?
[01:53] <dbungert> I have found at least one, and suspect 5 more so far, packages that I think need rebuilt due to having a mismatched lto version (11.2 instead of expected 11.3)
[03:18] <mwhudson> dbungert: oops missed your reply, are we talking about packages that distribute .a files here?
[04:27] <dbungert> mwhudson: yes
[08:12] <seb128> tjaalton, Jeremy is out today, about nautilus it's the same version in jammy, we usually did pocket copies for earlier SRUs, but I can do an upload to kinectic if you wish
[08:14] <seb128> tjaalton, there is also no risk that we will not get a nautilus upload during the kinetic cycle to a newer version
[08:16] <seb128> sorry need to drop from IRC for a bit
[08:46] <tjaalton> i know there's going to be a new upstream for kinetic
[09:03] <seb128> tjaalton, hey again
[09:14] <seb128> tjaalton, I've uploaded nautilus to kinetic now so the SRU should be ok to accept
[12:10] <ahasenack> morning


[02:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Are either of you using Studio Controls to work with starting/stopping Jack? That's the preferred method.
[02:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> !studio-controls
[03:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> Once Jack is configured through there and started (it's super simple to do so that way), then check via a patchbay with either Carla or qjackctl's graph to see if the device(s) are there, and "patch" them with a wire by dragging a wire from the device to your outputs.
[03:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> Or rather through a synth as you may need.
[03:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Beyond that, you may need additional help.
[03:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> !morehelp
[03:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> Matthew Pocock, Jochen Wonttell ^
[03:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> (append :libera.chat to those channel names for the matrix equivalents)


[01:11] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: Make the mirror prober honour the http_proxy env var, change it to issue batches of 50 requests instead of all at once and some other small things. r=spiv (r1829: Guilherme Salgado)
[01:13] <nictuku> can I ask rosetta questions here?
[01:15] <mpt> nictuku, yes, though you'll be more likely to get an answer when either carlos or jordi are awake
[04:33] <mpt__> Goooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[04:36] <jamesh> mpool: ping?
[04:54] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fix removal of unvalidated team emails (https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-04-26/D293) (r1830: Guilherme Salgado)
[05:12] <mpool> jamesh: ping?
[05:13] <jamesh> mpool: I was working on an improvement for the launchpad bzr branch syncing code, and had a few questions about the bzrlib APIs
[05:14] <jamesh> the first one is whether bzrlib guarantees that the items in the parent_ids list for a revision will be unique
[05:14] <lifeless> jamesh: revision.parent_ids you mean ?
[05:14] <jamesh> lifeless: yeah
[05:15] <lifeless> jamesh: are you asking if len(parent_ids) always == len(set(parent_ids))
[05:15] <jamesh> lifeless: yeah
[05:15] <lifeless> it *should* but it probably may not. If not I think we should de-dup in bzrlib
[05:16] <lifeless> the only semantic in the ordering of that list is the left-most entry
[05:16] <lifeless> the rest is treated as a set
[05:16] <jamesh> lifeless: ddaa had some code to remove duplicate entries dating back to October last year (I think).  I was wondering whether it was necessary still
[05:17] <lifeless> I dont recall any bugs filed on bzr
[05:17] <lifeless> so we haven't done anything to fix that
[05:17] <jamesh> are you saying that bzr won't necessarily maintain the order of the later parent ids?
[05:18] <lifeless> no, I'm saying that it doesn't care what the order of the later ids is.
[05:19] <jamesh> okay.
[05:20] <jamesh> the second question was about testing overwriting the branch history with a shorter version that shared some history.  Branch.set_revision_history() looks appropriate, but I was wondering if it is intended for public usage
[05:20] <lifeless> we are normalising history now
[05:20] <lifeless> what situation you want to create?
[05:22] <jamesh> the one ddaa mentioned was the original history being something like "r1 -> r2 -> r3 ->r4" and the new history being "r1 -> r3 -> r4" (r3 having r1 and r2 as parents)
[05:22] <lifeless> right
[05:22] <lifeless> nowadays the pull that creates that will normalise it to r4->r4[0] ->r4[0] [0] ->r4[0] [0] [0]  etc
[05:23] <lifeless> to test it though - why do you need a branch like that, why not just inject the revision history you want to use into the relevant method ?
[05:24] <jamesh> that's what I was thinking of doing, and wondering if Branch.set_revision_history() is the appropriate method
[05:24] <jamesh> or whether it was considered internal only
[05:24] <lifeless> for now it is. I'm suggesting modifying the scanner code to allow (for instance), Scanner.process_revision_history([r1, r2, r3, r4] )
[05:24] <lifeless> that is, make the code easier to test.
[05:28] <jamesh> that should be possible with the current code by overwriting the BzrSync.bzr_history attribute
[05:28] <jamesh> I might try that instead
[05:29] <lifeless> with robust tests, its better to test the specific thing that you are changing rather than environmental aspects.
[05:30] <lifeless> i.e. we dont want to test bzr, we want to test what the scanner does.
[07:27] <welshbyte> morning
[08:38] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=salgado]  Fix bug 36058 (Bug tasks need more dates) (r1831: Brad Bollenbach)
[09:16] <giftnudel> who is responsible for security related bugs in launchpad?
[09:21] <BjornT> giftnudel: we don't have any specific person for that atm, so if you report a security related bug, please subscribe the 'launchpad' team.
[09:22] <giftnudel> ok, I will do that
[09:34] <carlos> morning
[09:37] <giftnudel> BjornT: done, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/41835
[09:37] <BjornT> thanks giftnudel
[10:13] <SteveA> morning
[10:35] <carlos> SteveA: good morning
[10:37] <TomaszD> hi, is this a lauchpad support channel? I have a question regarding rosetta
[10:37] <TomaszD> *launchpad
[10:38] <TomaszD> why gnome-cups-manager template still isn't imported to dapper?
[10:38] <TomaszD> we have like two weeks to go
[10:38] <TomaszD> and one of the main desktop apps just isn't there
[10:38] <TomaszD> how come?
[10:43] <jordi> carlos: which missplaced upload?
[10:43] <carlos> jordi: is a bug, don't worry
[10:45] <jordi> carlos: oh, ok
[10:55] <ddaa> hello
[10:55] <ddaa> spiv: welcome back
[10:56] <carlos> TomaszD: hi, sorry, didn't see your request
[10:57] <carlos> TomaszD: this is the right channel to ask about this kind of issues
[10:57] <TomaszD> oh
[10:57] <TomaszD> ok, so? :)
[10:57] <carlos> let me check...
[10:57] <carlos> TomaszD: it's there: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-cups-manager/+pots/gnome-cups-manager
[10:58] <TomaszD> oh my
[10:58] <TomaszD> how come...
[10:58] <TomaszD> Jesus Christ
[10:58] <carlos> It was imported on 2006-03-20
[10:59] <TomaszD> I'm pretty sure the launchpad.net/rosetta points to hoary...
[10:59] <carlos> TomaszD: how where you looking for it?
[10:59] <carlos> s/where/were/
[10:59] <carlos> oh, that link...
[10:59] <carlos> mpt__: around?
[10:59] <carlos> mpt__: ^^^
[10:59] <SteveA> good morning carlos
[11:00] <TomaszD> anyhow, thanks carlos !
[11:00] <carlos> mpt__, jordi: I think we should show the product list with translations from productseries to prevent this kind of confusion (talking about launchpad.net/rosetta/)
[11:00] <carlos> TomaszD: you are welcome
[11:01] <carlos> TomaszD: please, use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations to locate dapper translations
[11:01] <TomaszD> carlos, ok thanks!
[11:01] <carlos> TomaszD: you are welcome
[11:04] <SteveA> BjornT: hello.  do you know if the email bug comment notification format is as it should be in production?
[11:04] <SteveA> i want to file a bug on a change, but i won't do so if there are still changes to land.
[11:05] <BjornT> SteveA: there are no changes pending, so please do file a bug.
[11:05] <SteveA> ok
[11:06] <jordi> carlos: what if the prodcut doesn't have series translations?
[11:06] <carlos> jordi: gnome-cups-manager, evolution and others
[11:07] <carlos> jordi: oh, sorry, I didn't read your question correctly
[11:07] <carlos> jordi: the suggestion is that we don't add such products on that list
[11:07] <carlos> people have access to it from the distro pages
[11:08] <jordi> nod
[11:08] <carlos> so the product list at launchpad.net/rosetta would became the list of products that agree to use Rosetta
[11:12] <carlos> SteveA: How could I define a variable with tal that gets an integer as value?
[11:13] <carlos> I'm using: <tal:limit define="limit 3">
[11:13] <carlos> but I get: Warning: zope.tal.taldefs.TALError: Invalid variable name "3" in expression u'3', at line 176, column 15
[11:13] <SteveA> carlos: first... why do you want to do this?
[11:13] <SteveA> this sounds like programming in a page template
[11:13] <SteveA> and we try to not do that
[11:14] <SteveA> the answer anyway is that any plain expression in TALES is interpreted as a "path expression"
[11:14] <SteveA> like context/foo/bar/baz
[11:14] <SteveA> or view/bar/baz/spoo
[11:14] <carlos> SteveA: It's for suggestions code, we are sharing macros between two translation forms
[11:14] <SteveA> so, you've asked for a context called "3", rather than "view" or "context"
[11:14] <carlos> one has no limit and the other has a limit
[11:14] <SteveA> so it doesn't work
[11:15] <carlos> and both uses the same view
[11:15] <SteveA> macros have access to the view class
[11:15] <mpt> carlos, what do you mean by "the product list with translations from productseries"?
[11:15] <mpt> What's an example of the page you're talking about
[11:15] <carlos> mpt: https://launchpad.net/rosetta as a list of products with translation resources
[11:16] <carlos> mpt: but many of them come from ubuntu so people think they need to look there for ubuntu translation resources
[11:16] <SteveA> carlos: you can say <tal:define tal:define="limit python:3">
[11:16] <carlos> SteveA: but the view has no way to know the kind of template we are rendering
[11:16] <SteveA> carlos: actually it does
[11:16] <mpt> carlos, by "them" do you mean products, or people?
[11:16] <carlos> well... looking into the requested URL
[11:16] <SteveA> and i'm going to make this a lot better in the near future
[11:17] <SteveA> with some better view support for launchpad
[11:17] <carlos> mpt: translation resources
[11:17] <SteveA> but meanwhile, i guess you can do this in TALES, although i do not like it
[11:18] <mpt> carlos, sorry, I don't understand the problem. Is it that people are scrolling down as far as the "Translations in Ubuntu", but not as far as "Translatable applications"?
[11:18] <carlos> SteveA: If you prefer to check the URL to set that value, I could do it too
[11:18] <SteveA> no, i don't like that either
[11:19] <SteveA> use TALES and please file a bug on me about it, indicating exactly what page template files and view classes are involved
[11:19] <carlos> mpt: They ignore the 'Translations in Ubuntu' section and look at 'Translatable applications' because we show there too the translations from Ubuntu
[11:19] <SteveA> and that it is for one view class and two templates, but with these different "limit" values
[11:19] <carlos> mpt: if we don't have a link there people think we didn't import it yet
[11:19] <SteveA> what is the "limit" for anyway?
[11:20] <SteveA> is that a good variable name?
[11:20] <mpt> That is messed up\
[11:20] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[11:20] <mpt> "The recommended target for current translation activity is Hoary gaim." Why?
[11:21] <carlos> SteveA: is the number of entries we are going to render, it controls the number of entries from a list that we are going to render, it acts as the 'limit' of entries
[11:21] <carlos> mpt: because no one is maintaining the links between products and distros
[11:21] <carlos> mpt: that's one of the problems, we talked about at London, do you remember?
[11:21] <mpt> carlos, why are we suggesting they translate distro packages at all?
[11:21] <SteveA> mpt: menus questions abound
[11:21] <carlos> mpt: because Mark asked us to implement it that way
[11:22] <SteveA> carlos: maxentriesrendered
[11:22] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[11:22] <SteveA> would be more descriptive than "limit"
[11:22] <SteveA> or just maxentries
[11:22] <SteveA> because "limit" can apply to *anything*
[11:22] <SteveA> so it is almost meaningless
[11:22] <SteveA> mpt: so please join the appropriate channel
[11:23] <carlos> mpt: I think that feature is good to have, but that page should render only applications that upstream maintains using Rosetta
[11:23] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[11:24] <mpt> carlos, if upstream uses Rosetta, that's precisely when we should be steering people to upstream translation, not distro translation!
[11:24] <mpt> Fall back to distro translation if the upstream developers don't use Rosetta
[11:24] <carlos> mpt: that's my point, I'm suggesting to show there only the products that have the Rosetta flag set
[11:25] <mpt> carlos, agreed
[11:25] <carlos> ok
[11:25] <carlos> I hope people start using the distro links after that change is done
[12:03] <carlos> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/41858
[12:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41858 in rosetta "<tal:limit define="maxentries python:3"> should be moved to python code" [Normal,Confirmed]
[12:05] <SteveA> ta
[12:06] <mpt> SteveA, lost you
[12:07] <TomaszD> carlos, how about dapper xchat? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/xchat/+translations
[12:08] <carlos> TomaszD: Rosetta has only packages from main
[12:08] <carlos> TomaszD: xchat is from universe
[12:08] <TomaszD> oh
[12:09] <TomaszD> hmm, so to get the translation in place, I'd have to ask for an upload to xchat's cvs then
[12:09] <carlos> TomaszD: either that or ask its ubuntu maintainer
[12:09] <SteveA> mpt: oh well
[12:09] <SteveA> irc it is
[12:09] <TomaszD> carlos, ok thanks
[12:09] <carlos> we were asked by MOTUs to not import those packages
[12:09] <TomaszD> why?
[12:10] <carlos> because we don't have language packs for universe and is hard to them to track the updates and do new uploads so those translations are not lost
[12:10] <TomaszD> oh I get it now, xchat was in main, that's why it had a translation before (in breezy)
[12:11] <TomaszD> OK I'll see about getting some feedback from the ubuntu maintainer
[12:19] <carlos> TomaszD: well, we imported universe for breezy and hoary, but the problem is the same, those translations are not being used in Ubuntu :-(
[12:58] <ddaa> hey stub
[12:59] <stub> Morning
[12:59] <ddaa> I'm looking at the person merging stuff for branches
[01:00] <ddaa> I do not think you actually read the doctest:
[01:00] <ddaa> +Branches with greater IDs will get greater numerical suffixes, so we create
[01:00] <ddaa> +"peoplemerge" first, and it will be renamed "peoplemerge-1". The extant
[01:00] <ddaa> +"peoplemerge-1" branch will be renamed "peoplemerge-2".
[01:01] <ddaa> I agree that as I described it, it's difficult to implement in sql, but the annoying bit is that now the doctest is contradicting itself.
[01:03] <stub> ok. So the text needs to be updated. I'm not too fussed if the renaming isn't particularly obvious - it will be extremely rare for the case to occur.
[01:06] <ddaa> how much longer are you around today?
[01:14] <ddaa> stub: for id, product, name in list(cur.fetchall()):
[01:14] <ddaa> any reason you use an explicit list there?
[01:15] <ddaa> it will end up using the iterator interface anyway
[01:19] <stub> ddaa: I'll be around for another 5 hours I think
[01:19] <stub> ddaa: I use list() there because I reuse the cursor in the loop
[01:19] <stub> (I think)
[01:19] <ddaa> good point
[01:19] <ddaa> thanks
[01:30] <ddaa> stub: please review https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filebtWwvB.html
[02:08] <Keybuk> psycopg.OperationalError: server closed the connection unexpectedly
[02:08] <Keybuk>         This probably means the server terminated abnormally
[02:08] <Keybuk>         before or while processing the request.
[02:08] <Keybuk> ; used connection string 'dbname=launchpad_prod user=queued host=jubany.ubuntu.com'
[02:08] <Keybuk> cprov !!! help :p
[02:09] <cprov> Keybuk: uhm .. this ramdom DB unavailability again, I can't do much for you. Which tool ?
[02:09] <Keybuk> queue
[02:10] <Keybuk> so if I retry, it should work?
[02:10] <cprov> Keybuk: yes
[02:11] <cprov> Keybuk: I wonder what is going so wrong latelly with jubany, maybe the obvious, high concurrence
[02:12] <carlos> see you later
[02:12] <Keybuk> cprov: now it's just being weird
[02:13] <Keybuk> I'm getting "Accepting ubuntu/dapper (NEW) 0/18"
[02:13] <Keybuk> then just "0/18 total"
[02:13] <Keybuk> oh, maybe I'm using it wrong
[02:14] <cprov> Keybuk: there is 18 items in NEW and your filter isn't selecting anyone for acceptation
[02:14] <cprov> there are ...
[02:14] <Keybuk> what's the filter supposed to be?
[02:15] <Keybuk> I put "language-pack-*" for that
[02:15] <cprov> name matching , i.e., queue -Q NEW accept foo
[02:15] <Keybuk> that didn't work
[02:15] <Keybuk> if I put the queue ids in, it works
[02:15] <Keybuk> (one at a tiem)
[02:15] <cprov> Keybuk: don't use '*'
[02:15] <Keybuk> oh, filter implied wildcards to me
[02:15] <stub> Keybuk: you got that just now??
[02:15] <Keybuk> stub: yeah
[02:16] <cprov> Keybuk: sorry, I didn't land wildcard support yet. Should be simple but I haven't time to investigate
[02:17] <Keybuk> ahh
[02:18] <cprov> Keybuk: use substring, as in a SQL LIKE %<>%
[02:18] <Keybuk> s'ok, I just did the ids :)
[02:18] <stub> cprov: Is this tool connecting as user 'fiera'?
[02:19] <cprov> stub: queued
[02:20] <stub> queued@launchpad_prod/29258 2006-04-28 13:15:55 BST LOG:  unexpected EOF on client connection
[02:20] <stub> Nothing else in the logs relevant
[02:20] <cprov> stub: config.uploadqueue.dbuser (ftpmaster config)
[02:20] <cprov> stub: have you seen it before in our env. ?
[02:20] <stub> Nope
[02:21] <stub> Possibly network issues, possibly something odd like the ident daemon on drescher not responding quickly enough and some timeout being triggered in the auth process.
[02:22] <stub> Doesn't look like anything wrong at the PostgreSQL level though, at least as far as the logs let me know.
[02:23] <cprov> stub: can you file a bug for this ? then we can track the same behavior in other situation like the publisher or the slave_scanner (I've seen the same in those lands)
[02:23] <stub> I've got other 'unexpected EOF' messages for the fiera user
[02:24] <cprov> stub: it's the slave_scanner
[02:24] <stub> And some others, like bugnotification. I suspect it is normal for a psycopg connection that isn't explicitly closed and a false alarm.
[02:24] <cprov> stub: or queue_builder (both are buildmaster children)
[02:27] <cprov> stub: maybe, if the process has already finished DB tasks it's ok, but it also happens in the middle of some intensive processes, i guess the transaction is just aborted since I've never get inconsistenses.
[02:27] <stub> transaction will always be rolled back
[02:28] <cprov> speaking about which, once a while publisher fails on a "serialization" problem, have you observed the same issue in other applications ?
[02:29] <stub> serialization exceptions are normal if you are using serialized transaction isolation level, which is the default with psycopg 1. Either change the transaction isolation level, or catch the exceptions and retry the transaction.
[02:29] <stub> Retrying the transaction is the documented way of handling this expected case.
[02:30] <stub> I'd consider dropping the transaction isolation level unless the lack of read consistency will cause your program problems.
[02:30] <cprov> stub: how do I retry the transaction ? shouldn't we have support for this in the commit method ?
[02:31] <stub> cprov: You need to redo what you where trying to do. commit can't do it automatically, as the transaction might need to do something different the second time round as the data in the database may have changed.
[02:31] <cprov> stub: publisher will probably failed on pending writes (publising & domination, both huges most of the time)
[02:31] <stub> In fact, it almost certainly have changed as the serialization exception was triggered.
[02:32] <cprov> stub: wait, did you mean changed by other transaction ?
[02:32] <stub> changed by another process I mean.
[02:33] <stub> Your script has requested the highest possible transaction isolation level. Some other process has mucked with the data in such a way that that transaction isolation level can no longer be guaranteed. So PostgreSQL raises the exception and expects you to deal with it, generally by trying whatever you were doing again.
[02:33] <cprov> stub: I see, the exception will be raised when I commit or anywhere after the transaction has been started ?
[02:34] <stub> I can't remember - whenever I've needed to catch it I've always wrapped the entire thing in a try: except: so haven't needed to worry.
[02:35] <cprov> Keybuk: did queue work for you ?
[02:36] <Keybuk> cprov: seems to be working ok
[02:37] <cprov> stub: right, will find sometime to play around it during the weekend. I guess a good way to reproduce it should be invoking another script to mess with DB data in question after start a transaction. Anyway will figure out
[02:38] <cprov> Keybuk: ok, sorry for unsupported/undocummented feature, feel free to file a bug on missed wildcards functionality, it's also missing in the web UI implementation.
[02:39] <Keybuk> nah, s'ok -- was more a bug in my own docs of how to drive the tool I suspect :p
[02:39] <Keybuk> this was the first time I'd tried to accept more than one package at a time
[02:40] <stub> cprov: it is a pita to reproduce, as you need to mutate the data in the right way - if it is possible for PostgreSQL to cope, it copes. lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp/ftests/test_adapter.txt has some tests for Z3 handling of it. Most scripts I've just reduced the isolation level though - generally you don't need SELECTS to guarantee the same results on repeated queries, and sometimes this behavior even makes things more difficult.
[02:42] <cprov> stub: I'm scared now :(
[02:43] <stub> cprov: Its not really scary. Most db's don't even support this high a transaction isolation level at all.
[02:45] <cprov> stub: I wonder if a better approach should be identify which scripts are conflicting horrible and lockfile them.
[03:35] <stub> ddaa: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filebtWwvB.html r=stub
[03:46] <doko> carlos: Could you give me translations "Get help Online" and "Translate this application" in all languages?
[04:07] <carlos> doko: aren't you able to use the translations from gtk+ or whatever it's stored for GNOME?
[04:07] <doko> carlos: OOo ...
[04:08] <carlos> where are the gtk/gnome ones stored? the source code that contains the english string
[04:14] <doko> carlos: lunchpack-integration
[04:16] <carlos> doko: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/launchpad-integration/+pots/launchpad-integration/+export
[04:17] <carlos> then, there you have the translations we have
[04:18] <doko> carlos: breezy does have more, but ok, that probably better to check this location regularily
[04:19] <doko> carlos: there's one bug: I cannot download the files in GSI format ;-P
[04:19] <carlos> doko: I need to migrate breezy's translations to dapper, that's the reason
[04:20] <carlos> doko: btw, aren't you going to add those strings to oo.org GSI files?
[04:23] <doko> carlos: hmm, I should, but it seems, they are currently not ...
[04:25] <doko> carlos: indeed, they are
[04:39] <salgado> stub, around?
[04:39] <stub> salgado: yes
[04:39] <salgado> great
[04:39] <salgado> stub, so, I need some help with the migration script for shipit
[04:40] <salgado> basically, I need to insert empty RequestCDs objects for the new flavours
[04:40] <salgado> s/objects/rows
[04:40] <salgado> not really empty, but with quantity=0 and quantityapproved=0
[04:41] <salgado> so, for every existent RequestCDs row, I need to insert two new ones, changing only the flavour column
[04:41] <kiko> GOOD MORNING WORLD
[04:41] <SteveA> yo
[05:03] <stub> salgado: That sounds dodgy. Why store the rows with quantity=0 and quantityapproved=0 at all? Tripling the data we store doesn't sound a good solution when slightly more intelligent code would handle it fine.
[05:08] <salgado> stub, yes, I agree with you... the problem is that I have to pass these RequestedCds objects from browser to database code in a few different places. and I'm afraid it'll be quite some work to change all these places to handle variable numbers of RequestedCDs objects
[05:09] <SteveA> the API can still do that
[05:09] <SteveA> doesn't mean it needs to be that way in the database
[05:09] <kiko> salgado, I still think stub is right -- otherwise, what happens when you want to add more archs and products?
[05:09] <kiko> listen to SteveA
[05:09] <SteveA> then, you can consider refactoring later
[05:12] <salgado> I was just afraid it'd make the code even more complex. I have to admit I didn't investigate it well enough, though
[05:13] <salgado> maybe you can help me with that this afternoon, kiko?
[05:13] <kiko> sure!
[05:13] <kiko> thanks for asking
[05:13] <kiko> remind me
[05:13] <stub> I suspect offering three flavours instead of one will more than double the number of requested cds we sent out (and double the number that end up as drinks coasters). Even with hindsight though, we will have no way of knowing for sure (as we will also get an unknown increase due to increased publicity and public awareness).
[05:14] <kiko> stub, we only offer one flavor per site
[05:14] <kiko> i.e.
[05:14] <kiko> the guy needs to go to shipit.edubuntu.org for edubunto CDs
[05:14] <kiko> edubuntu argh
[05:14] <kiko> so it's extra work to get more CDs
[05:14] <kiko> we also changed the workflow for custom requests
[05:15] <kiko> salgado, I'm pretty sure the checkbox is going to be important. make it a UI-only Javascript thing?
[05:17] <salgado> kiko, you mean, only enable the text box when the checkbox is clicked? (I'm assuming this is what we're going to use unless someone has a better idea)
[05:17] <kiko> yeah
[05:17] <kiko> do it
[05:22] <SteveA> hi tom
[05:22] <th1a> Hi SteveA.
[05:22] <kiko> yawns
[05:22] <th1a> We're having a little LaunchPad problem.
[05:22] <SteveA> what's up?
[05:23] <bradb> kiko, BjornT, SteveA: Any thoughts on https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BugDateLastUpdated ? I was planning on putting it up for review soon.
[05:23] <th1a> SteveA: jinty is the "registrant" for SchoolTool, but he can't seem to elevate my role on the project.
[05:24] <SteveA> this will allow us to do kinda roundup things, bradb
[05:24] <bradb> (btw, by "it", I mean the code.)
[05:24] <kiko> bradb, isn't there a general "bug-modified" event?
[05:24] <kiko> bradb, BjornT: if not, shouldn't there be?
[05:24] <kiko> I think an update_bug_date_last_updated event is nonsensical
[05:25] <bradb> There isn't such an event now.
[05:25] <kiko> well that'd make a lot more sense
[05:25] <SteveA> th1a: what role is he trying to give you?
[05:26] <bradb> kiko: That's a pretty quick conclusion. :)
[05:26] <kiko> bradb, I mean, well, what do YOU think? :)
[05:26] <SteveA> th1a: https://launchpad.net/products/schooltool/+reassign ?
[05:26] <th1a> SteveA:  Well, I should be able to do just about everything.  I'm not sure what you call that.
[05:26] <bradb> It's not really that simple. There are various events that can happen to consider a bug being "modified", like adding a comment, adding a watch, changing the status/assignee/etc.
[05:26] <SteveA> th1a: maybe you want to create a team with you and brian in it
[05:27] <kiko> all of these, IMO, should trigger an update to the date, bradb
[05:27] <th1a> SteveA:  I'm not sure what he did.
[05:27] <SteveA> and then use that page to make tha tteam the owner?
[05:27] <bradb> Different objects being modified, and even only specific fields on those objects.
[05:27] <jinty> SteveA: I get permission denied when I try that
[05:27] <matsubara> SteveA: looks like bug 41639
[05:27] <SteveA> jinty: when you try to use +reassign
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41639 in launchpad "Product owner should be able to reassign ownership to another user." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41639
[05:27] <bradb> kiko: someone new being subscribed to a bug causing it to bump the bug up the sort order? ew. :)
[05:27] <jinty> SteveA: to be exact, I can view it, but not change it
[05:28] <SteveA> i see
[05:28] <kiko> bradb, well, you could argue it either way..
[05:28] <SteveA> who do you want to be the product owners?
[05:28] <SteveA> do you have a team, or should it just be tom?
[05:28] <SteveA> thanks matsubara
[05:30] <bradb> kiko: The point of this functionality is to help steer devs into spending their time on things where something has changed, instead of having them polling bug reports. It seems highly unlikely to me that adding a subscriber (or, for example, changing a bug nickname, perhaps) is important enough to bring the bug to the devs attention.
[05:30] <th1a> SteveA:  A team is probably better.
[05:30] <bradb> s/attention/attention again/
[05:31] <kiko> bradb, you're somewhat right, but where do you draw the line?
[05:31] <bradb> kiko: At a subscriber being added, for one. :)
[05:31] <SteveA> why?
[05:31] <SteveA> that shows that at least one more person is interested
[05:32] <bradb> SteveA: And...?
[05:32] <SteveA> well, you fix a bug depending on the number of people it affects, at least to some extent
[05:32] <SteveA> if it affects 0 people, you need not fix it
[05:32] <SteveA> if it affects 100% of people, you must fix it
[05:33] <SteveA> and subscribing is an indication of interest in the resolution
[05:33] <SteveA> which implies being affected
[05:34] <SteveA> th1a: do you have a team in mind?
[05:34] <kiko> bradb, #cm
[05:35] <th1a> SteveA:  It could be jinty and I.  In theory sabdfl should be an owner, too ;-)
[05:35] <carlos> stub: hi, I think staging mirror is broken atm...
[05:35] <SteveA> you should be able to create such a team for yourselves in launchpad
[05:36] <SteveA> and give it a name like schooltool-owners
[05:36] <SteveA> let me know when you've done that
[05:36] <SteveA> and i'll transfer ownership of the schooltool product
[05:38] <stub> ZConfig.ConfigurationSyntaxError: 'warn_about_no_published_uploads' is not a known key name (line 95 in file:///srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/staging/launchpad/configs/staging/launchpad.conf)
[05:38] <stub> Any reason why that is required?
[05:40] <salgado> stub, I dropped this config option, but aparently I forgot to remove it from staging's config. sorry for that
[05:40] <stub> ahh... yes. I had it backwards :-)
[05:47] <carlos> kiko: I have the PoMsgSetPage implemented already, I'm fixing tests now
[05:47] <kiko> YES!
[05:48] <SteveA> but please note the correct way to do this is...
[05:48] <SteveA>  "I have the PoMsgSetPage tests implemented already.  I'm fixing the implementation now"
[05:48] <kiko> well, the page has impact on existing tests, SteveA
[05:49] <SteveA> of course
[05:49] <SteveA> which can be changed first too :-)
[05:49] <kiko> and some changes are rather unpredictable
[05:49] <SteveA> but, you'd find those needed changes as you worked on the implementation
[05:49] <carlos> well, I'm getting test failures that should not be failing in first place...
[05:50] <SteveA> BjornT: what's the story on getting us able to use the new test facilities in zope3.2 ?
[05:50] <carlos> I'm reviewing the diff to know why are they failing
[05:50] <SteveA> if you're getting failing page tests, it may be easier to rewrite them in the new style...
[05:50] <SteveA> if we have the new style available
[05:51] <carlos> is not a problem with pagetests
[05:51] <ddaa> okay finished stuffed pqm
[05:52] <carlos> but with doctests
[05:52] <SteveA> okay
[05:52] <ddaa> going watch a movie, I'll probably be back afterwards
[05:52] <SteveA> carlos: ping me if you need help with fixing the tests
[05:52] <BjornT> SteveA: well, there's one rt ticket needing to be resolved, then test.py needs a small patch. after that it's possible to use it.
[05:53] <carlos> SteveA: will do, thanks
[05:55] <SteveA> BjornT: what rt number, and can the patch be made conditional so it may be applied now?
[05:57] <BjornT> SteveA: actually, the rt ticket might have been resolved already, i can't find it. the patch to test.py can be applied anyway, it just removes '.' from PYTHONPATH
[05:57] <SteveA> please get that patch into PQM
[05:58] <kiko> do it
[05:58] <SteveA> pop the trunk
[06:03] <SteveA> BjornT: can't find the ticket in current or resolved RT tickets for launchpad
[06:03] <SteveA> it may be in the "pending classification" queue, which I cannot see
[06:08] <ozamosi> When I have a bazaar-branch added to launchpad, how do I merge it back? Is there some easy way, or is that manual?
[06:08] <BjornT> SteveA: ok. does https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filecOpT0g.html look ok? it's copy&pasted from Zope3's test.py
[06:09] <kiko> ozamosi, can you clarify what yo are asking? merge it back.. from where? to where? to accomplish what?
[06:13] <SteveA> BjornT: say something more descriptive than "this directory"
[06:13] <SteveA> like "this module's directory" (is that right?)  or "the current working directory" (don't think that's it)
[06:14] <SteveA> why is it important to remove that directory from the module search path?
[06:15] <ozamosi> kiko: (newbe on bazaar) I want to develop a webpage with bazaar, and I can easily add a branch to launchpad. But how do changes actually get to the server? Would that be done outside of launchpad?
[06:15] <BjornT> SteveA: ok. i'll also add a comment as to why we remove the directory. it's because testbrowser does 'from test import pystone'
[06:16] <BjornT> right, it's the module's directory which is removed
[06:16] <kiko> ozamosi, you push your branch to the supermirror, generally. have you asked on #bzr?
[06:17] <uws> Ehm... the supermirror pushes from my http branch
[06:17] <uws> I don't push it to launchpad
[06:17] <ozamosi> kiko: actually, no. I just wondered if there was something launchpad did for me.
[06:17] <uws> argh, what I meant to say is: "the supermirror PULLS from my http branch"
[06:18] <kiko> uws, the supermirror can do both, but new branches can just as easily push
[06:18] <kiko> without requiring registration
[06:18] <uws> kiko: Are you talking about ubuntu stuff or just any 3rd party branch that is registered in lp?
[06:19] <kiko> any branch
[06:19] <SteveA> BjornT, carlos, bradb, stub: karl has installed the needed python packages on the servers.  We can start using the new test stuff.
[06:20] <carlos> cool
[06:20] <bradb> sweet. I await your code review!
[06:20] <uws> kiko: How do I push to lp? I don't have a ssh/sftp/ftp account ?
[06:20] <kiko> uws, just register your ssh key
[06:20] <uws> kiko: And how does LP know it was me and not some evil hacker/
[06:20] <BjornT> SteveA: ok. should i set up a 'browser' object in the pagetest setup?
[06:20] <uws> kiko: Ah, ok. that makes sense ;)
[06:20] <kiko> uws, you can then easily push to the sftp server
[06:20] <SteveA> sure, make it nice
[06:26] <kiko> BjornT, are you in the middle of tasks?
[06:27] <BjornT> kiko: yeah. what's up?
[06:30] <kiko> BjornT, well, mdz is desperate to get bug 29752 fixed, and I'm looking for takers
[06:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29752 in malone "If a bug is marked as a duplicate, its subscribers should be notified when the duplicate bug changes" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29752
[06:30] <kiko> salgado, could you perhaps do it?
[06:33] <kiko> or bradb?
[06:35] <bradb> I can do it.
[06:37] <kiko> mdz would love you and then I would love you too
[06:41] <bradb> love is the answer
[06:41] <kiko> to many questions
[06:50] <mdz> bradb: if you fix that bug, I may kiss you
[06:50] <kiko> mmmm kissing
[06:50] <ruffneck> on the butt? ;)
[06:51] <bradb> wow
[06:51] <bradb> friendship...with benefits
[06:54] <kiko> no way!
[06:54] <kiko> he makes me so envious this bradb character
[07:18] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub]  improve branch renaming on people merging (r1832: David Allouche)
[07:19] <SteveA> the macadamia is a kind of nut
[07:20] <SteveA> large, nutritious.  grows in australia
[07:23] <sabdfl> hi all
[07:23] <sabdfl> what's the right magic to get RO access to the staging db from mawson?
[07:23] <sabdfl> psql -h asuka.ubuntu.com -U ro -d launchpad_staging
[07:24] <sabdfl> is giving me "permission denied for relation bug" errors
[07:25] <carlos> sabdfl: seems like the mirror done today failed
[07:26] <carlos> at least that's the usual error while the mirror is being done
[07:26] <sabdfl> ok, could you ping stub about that monda?
[07:27] <carlos> I did it already
[07:28] <sabdfl> thanks carlos
[07:28] <carlos> hmm, he left already
[07:28] <sabdfl> import/export looking much healthier, well done, go for 100% ok?
[07:29] <carlos> not sure if we was aware of the problem
[07:29] <carlos> sabdfl: yeah, that's the plan. Thanks
[07:33] <jsgotangco> hey guys, in malone is it really necessary to have the "subscribe me" checkbox for comment when I'm already part of the team responsible for the package? we're already subscribed in the first place...
[07:37] <kiko-fud> jsgotangco, good point. easy fix too
[07:38] <jsgotangco> ahh i guess the backend is smart enough to know im part of the team...that's good thanks kiko-fud
[07:39] <kiko-fud> just check inteam
[07:39] <kiko-fud> easy
[07:39] <kiko-fud> dude my merge is taking hours
[07:41] <salgado> kiko-fud, inTeam() is not the right thing in this case, I think
[07:41] <salgado> I think we need to check only for direct memberships
[07:41] <kiko-fud> mmmm?
[07:42] <salgado> indirect members won't get mail notification if a team has no contact address, IIRC, so they won't receive bugmail that is sent to that team and thus they might want to subscribe
[07:45] <carlos> SteveA, BjornT: Do we have any documentation about how to use the new testing system?
[08:00] <mdke> jordi, carlos: around?
[08:00] <carlos> mdke: yes
[08:02] <mdke> carlos: I uploaded a pot with just a few string changes, apparently hundreds of strings have been marked as fuzzy, any idea why?
[08:03] <carlos> the .pot upload doesn't set/remove the fuzzy flag
[08:03] <carlos> mdke: the .po upload is the one that affects that flag
[08:03] <mdke> well, I didn't upload any po files :)
[08:04] <mdke> so, I'm not culpable?
[08:04] <mdke> ;)
[08:05] <carlos> don't think so
[08:05] <mdke> good. thanks
[08:05] <carlos> unless we have a unknown bug...
[08:05] <carlos> mdke: where did it happen?
[08:06] <mdke> carlos: in french, apparently
[08:07] <mdke> no more specific than that
[08:07] <mdke> someone posted to -translators
[08:08] <carlos> mdke: then I don't think it's a bug in our side, at least not with your .pot upload
[08:08] <mdke> good, I'll let them know. Thanks
[08:08] <carlos> it should affect all languages
[08:08] <carlos> or none
[08:08] <carlos> it sounds much more like a new fr.po upload
[08:09] <mdke> yeah
[08:10] <mdke> thanks carlos
[08:10] <carlos> you are welcome
[08:22] <jordi> weird things happen lately
[08:22] <kiko> yes?
[08:24] <jordi> like frenchs getting fuzzy strings :)
[08:33] <cprov> BjornT: ping
[08:38] <sfllaw> Well, that was silly of me.
[08:38] <sfllaw> https://launchpad.net/products/nautilus/+bug/34375
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34375 in nautilus "Multi-mode (audio+data) CDs always opened by Sound Juicer" [Unknown,Unknown]
[08:38] <sfllaw> See the remote bug watches.
[08:38] <sfllaw> Ah.  Fixed it.
[08:38] <BjornT> cprov: pong
[08:38] <ruffneck> bong
[08:40] <cprov> BjornT: do you know why dogfood conf external email was reenable in LP ?
[08:43] <BjornT> cprov: no, no idea. i'd guess someone enabled it by mistake, since i'd think it should be disabled to avoid spamming people.
[08:43] <cprov> BjornT: maybe Zope 3.2 migration process ?
[08:51] <BjornT> cprov: i'm looking in configs/dogfood in rf, and it seems that mail-configure.zcml (which enables sending mail) hasn't been touched for quite a while. maybe you disabled it locally only, and then some rollout procedure overwrote mail-configure.zcml to the one in rf?
[08:52] <cprov> BjornT: or maybe it wasn't really disabled for the UI, only zopeless.
[08:52] <cprov> BjornT: does it fix the problem > https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemyhNUC.html ?
[08:58] <BjornT> cprov: almost. you need a <mail:stubMailer> as well. look how it's done in packages-include/mail-configure-normal.zcml
[08:58] <cprov> BjornT: ok, one sec
[09:00] <cprov> BjornT: again -> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileLKCzSk.html , please
[09:01] <AlinuxOS> carlos, great new rosetta :) it rocks
[09:02] <AlinuxOS> and I enjoy Ubuntu in Georgian :D
[09:02] <carlos> AlinuxOS: thank you ;-)
[09:02] <kiko> hey carlos
[09:02] <carlos> AlinuxOS: but if you talk about any UI improvement, say thank you to mpt ;-)
[09:02] <kiko> how's PMSP?
[09:02] <carlos> kiko: hi
[09:02] <carlos> kiko: running tests
[09:02] <AlinuxOS> :)
[09:02] <kiko> and also, bug 41653, which you need to look at
[09:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41653 in rosetta "Importation of po file goes in the wrong template" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41653
[09:02] <carlos> I think I fixed all tests already
[09:02] <AlinuxOS> no I love evetything...
[09:02] <AlinuxOS> :D
[09:02] <kiko> and also this weird bug reported by mdke
[09:03] <kiko> and finally, the oops bug :)
[09:03] <AlinuxOS> carlos, imports are more faster..I like this
[09:03] <carlos> kiko: well, person.txt keeps failing, but I guess is not my fault so I will take a closer look to it if PQM rejects the merge due that test
[09:03] <carlos> AlinuxOS: :-D
[09:03] <kiko> person.txt? where does it fail? paste?
[09:03] <carlos> kiko: dude, I cannot do so much things... :-)
[09:03] <kiko> yes you can
[09:04] <kiko> stop stopping waiting for tests, paralelize!
[09:04] <BjornT> cprov: yeah, that should work. i'm not sure it's a good idea to spam root, though, is it?
[09:04] <carlos> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filevEsytx.html
[09:05] <carlos> kiko: I paralelize!, but I have also a huge backlog of mail from launchpad and rosetta-users
[09:05] <kiko> carlos, forget mail, focus on those 4 tasks :)
[09:05] <carlos> I'm now uptodate with launchpad mail
[09:05] <kiko> mail is less important
[09:05] <cprov> BjornT: it should not send any email, isn't it ? they will remain in the specified queue, right ?
[09:05] <kiko> so carlos that is an odd crash, and one that I thought stub and ddaa had fixed in RF tip yesterday. are you fully remerged?
[09:06] <carlos> I merged yesterday
[09:06] <carlos> should I get a new update?
[09:06] <carlos> and a better question.. how is that pqm accepted that merge?
[09:07] <kiko> I think a DB constraint was added first and then the code was fixed
[09:07] <kiko> IIRC
[09:07] <carlos> ok
[09:08] <kiko> carlos, do you have RF revno 1824?
[09:09] <carlos> I branched from 3504
[09:09] <AlinuxOS> carlos, for example if I want a 456 string of gnome-panel,can I access more faster ?
[09:09] <AlinuxOS> or if I know a name of a string in english
[09:09] <AlinuxOS> can I acces faster to translate it ?
[09:10] <carlos> you can change the offset variable to jump to it
[09:10] <carlos> +translate?offset=450
[09:10] <BjornT> cprov: no, stubMailer does send the email to the to_addr. we have no mailer which simply drops the email. maybe we should add one, it's not hard to do.
[09:10] <AlinuxOS> carlos, and if I know a string name ?
[09:11] <carlos> AlinuxOS: no way to search (yet)
[09:11] <AlinuxOS> I I like this (yet)
[09:11] <AlinuxOS> :D
[09:11] <cprov> BjornT: ok, could be.
[09:11] <AlinuxOS> the important thing is this (yet)
[09:11] <AlinuxOS> so you willl improve.
[09:12] <carlos> yeah
[09:12] <carlos> and it became a priority this month
[09:12] <carlos> so I guess we will have it soon
[09:14] <bradb> kiko: do you have time to drive-by the fix for bug 29752?
[09:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29752 in malone "If a bug is marked as a duplicate, its subscribers should be notified when the duplicate bug changes" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29752
[09:14] <kiko> yeah
[09:14] <kiko> unless it's too long
[09:14] <kiko> BjornT is a better candidate though
[09:14] <bradb> kiko: it's easy: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileO7fPOK.html
[09:15] <AlinuxOS> carlos, and if I would like to translate main rosetta interface in my language ?
[09:15] <kiko> bradb, that's half a patch, hmmm. the end-user may be confused about getting the email
[09:15] <AlinuxOS> example Georgian :)
[09:16] <kiko> I thought you were going to copy subscribers over, bradb?
[09:16] <bradb> hm, that seems a bit dodgy to me, dunno
[09:16] <bradb> particularly when unduping
[09:16] <carlos> AlinuxOS: we cannot do it yet
[09:17] <AlinuxOS> carlos, but still yet :)
[09:17] <carlos> AlinuxOS: we are changing a lot our UI interface and that would trash a lot of strings from translators
[09:17] <AlinuxOS> so it will be in the future :)
[09:17] <carlos> yes, we did some testing already
[09:17] <kiko> bradb, well, how would you make it clear that these people were getting email?
[09:17] <AlinuxOS>  great
[09:17] <bradb> kiko: That the end user is confused about getting the email is, I think, a separate problem (because we've already had end-users report confusion about getting mail.)
[09:17] <AlinuxOS> my pleasure to translate it :)
[09:18] <kiko> bradb, well, you're certainly not making it any better. what do you propose?
[09:18] <AlinuxOS> I really like your job guys..it's changed a lot...and changed in a righ way!
[09:18] <AlinuxOS> great :)
[09:18] <bradb> kiko: Ideally, a footer that says exactly why you're getting this email.
[09:19] <kiko> bradb, no, that's not a very good answer
[09:19] <kiko> well
[09:19] <kiko> okay, maybe it's an answer
[09:19] <kiko> but if I look at the bug ideally I know what Persons we're mailing
[09:19] <kiko> and the fix you did does not contemplate that
[09:19] <kiko> nor are you raising that issue
[09:19] <carlos> AlinuxOS: glad to know it ;-)
[09:20] <cprov> BjornT: changed the to_addr to launchpad@ (active admin account on mawson). Do I have rs=bjornt on it ?
[09:21] <bradb> kiko: Subscribing them to the dup target would be somewhat more confusing, IMHO.
[09:21] <kiko> it's how bugzilla does it, and what the bug commenter suggested
[09:21] <kiko> but you're not being helpful. suggest a way forward
[09:21] <AlinuxOS> so I exit :) to much bear that waits!!!
[09:21] <AlinuxOS> :D
[09:21] <AlinuxOS> god bless you all..
[09:24] <BjornT> cprov: hmm, don't know :) i have no idea where the email should go on mawson. you should set the from_addr to that address, though.
[09:25] <kiko> bradb?
[09:25] <cprov> BjornT: come on ;) changed also from_addr to launchpad@
[09:25] <kiko> I have a suggestion perhaps
[09:26] <bradb> kiko: For the display side of things, I'm thinking of a "Subscribers of duplicates of this bug:" section in the subscriptions portlet
[09:26] <kiko> which would be including dupe subscribers in the portlet
[09:26] <kiko> maybe just "From duplicates:" ?
[09:26] <bradb> Yeah, trying to thinking of how to make it concise
[09:26] <kiko> there's a problem with doing that though
[09:26] <kiko> and that is that your notificationRecipientAddresses already pulls emails
[09:27] <BjornT> cprov: well, if you think that's the right thing to do, sure rs=bjornt.
[09:27] <bradb> yeah, imp. details. no big deal.
[09:27] <kiko> you'd need to factor that into notificationRecipients and then use that in the portlet and from notificationRecipientAddresses
[09:27] <kiko> does that sound crash-prone?
[09:27] <cprov> BjornT: right, thx dude
[09:27] <kiko> will it work when there are no dupes? when there are dupes with no subscribers?
[09:28] <bradb> When there are no subscribers from dupes (including meaning there may be no dupes at all), it just wouldn't be shown, I think.
[09:28] <kiko> okay
[09:28] <kiko> that sounds like a good start
[09:29] <kiko> making it dynamic but visible
[09:29] <carlos> I need to leave now...
[09:29] <carlos> have a good weekend
[09:29] <bradb> thinking about the email itself though, hmm...
[09:30] <kiko> bradb, yeah. but maybe we can leave the email itself to be solved together with the footer?
[09:30] <bradb> sounds good
[09:30] <kiko> fine by me then
[09:30] <bradb> thanks
[09:30] <kiko> test looks good
[09:30] <carlos> kiko: I will ask for a review for the PoMsgSetPage branch tomorrow, I need to update a couple of pagetests for some broken links I detected
[09:31] <kiko> carlos, why don't you place it for review now?
[09:31] <kiko> carlos, pagetest link updates can either be reviewed separately or not at all if it's really trivial
[09:32] <carlos> ok
[09:34] <kiko> hey
[09:34] <kiko> why did revision numbers drop all of a sudden?
[09:35] <carlos> I think it's a bzr bug
[09:35] <kiko> okay, sent mail to lifeless
[09:35] <carlos> that mpt told me that lifeless said that would be fixed automatically when he fixes the bug that caused it
[09:35] <carlos> but I'm not sure I understood it correctly
[09:37] <kiko> weird
[09:41] <carlos> kiko: my branch is now added to pendingreviews page
[09:41] <carlos> see you!
[09:41] <kiko> what about the bugs!
[09:42] <carlos> dude, I cannot look into them atm
[09:43] <kiko> you did say you were going to look into that bug today
[09:43] <carlos> I'm going out to have dinner and is already 21:45 here..
[09:43] <kiko> yeah, but next time, try setting aside some time for analyzing fixing oopses -- even if that means having an hour less of PMSP
[09:44] <carlos> I know... but I was concentrated with PoMsgSetPage and decided to keep on track to kill it
[09:44] <kiko> anyway, night
[09:44] <carlos> ok
[09:50] <carlos> kiko: you are a lucky man, I got a call and my friend will be 30 minutes late
[09:50] <kiko> heh
[09:50] <kiko> I was born lucky
[09:50] <carlos> kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/41943 <- This is a transaction problem that should be reviewed by stub
[09:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41943 in rosetta "SQLObjectNotFound in +translante page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[09:50] <carlos> if you look at the OPPS, it has the INSERT for the missing object that raised the exception
[09:50] <kiko> oh no
[09:51] <carlos> so we have  arace condition
[09:51] <kiko> one of those again
[09:51] <carlos> well, either stub or spiv
[09:58] <carlos> kiko: and confirmed, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/41653 is not an obvious bug in our side
[09:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41653 in rosetta "Importation of po file goes in the wrong template" [Major,Confirmed]
[09:58] <kiko> hmmm
[09:58] <kiko> carlos, the database looks good?
[09:58] <carlos> kiko: is either a cache problem or a bad upload from the user
[09:58] <carlos> kiko: yeah, I was confused because we didn't get the associated pofile automatically after the upload
[09:59] <carlos> now that I checked the source code
[09:59] <kiko> and why not?
[09:59] <carlos> I see that we link to the potemplate, not the pofile
[09:59] <kiko> ah
[09:59] <carlos> and checked again the import queue
[09:59] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?status=APPROVED&type=all&start=75&batch=75
[09:59] <carlos> look for my name there
[09:59] <kiko> how could it be a cache problem?
[09:59] <carlos> and you will see that my import is attached to the right pofile
[10:00] <kiko> oh I see
[10:00] <carlos> kiko: well, I it's just an option
[10:00] <carlos> is a bit hard
[10:00] <carlos> as the link to the potemplate is done when we create a new object that represents an entry on the queue
[10:01] <carlos> entry = TranslationImportQueueEntry(path=path, content=alias,
[10:01] <carlos>                 importer=importer, sourcepackagename=sourcepackagename,
[10:01] <carlos>                 distrorelease=distrorelease, productseries=productseries,
[10:01] <carlos>                 is_published=is_published, potemplate=potemplate)
[10:01] <carlos> so I guess that if the object is created.... the cache should not be a problem at all
[10:01] <carlos> and thus, we only have the option that the user did a mistake with the upload...
[10:01] <kiko> could he have?
[10:03] <carlos> hmm... is the only option I can think on
[10:03] <carlos> because we have the potemplate information
[10:03] <carlos> and the guessing code, in that case does:
[10:03] <carlos> pofile = self.potemplate.getPOFileByLang(
[10:03] <carlos>             language.code, variant=language_variant)
[10:04] <carlos> and is 100% impossible that we get a POFile from another potemplate
[10:04] <kiko> could there be a conflicting potemplate and we are picking the worst one?
[10:04] <carlos> conflicting potemplate?
[10:04] <kiko> well, another one in the same path
[10:04] <carlos> no, we don't take the path in account in this case
[10:05] <kiko> I se
[10:05] <carlos> he choosed the potemplate and the pofile
[10:05] <kiko> e
[10:05] <carlos> hmmm, I found a possible option that would produce this problem if he didn't choose the pofile
[10:06] <kiko> ahm
[10:06] <carlos> but is a side effect of another know bug that allows two pofiles from different potemplates and the same productseries or sourcepackagename being in the same path
[10:06] <carlos> but that would mean too that he didn't use the URL he gave us
[10:08] <carlos> kiko: bug updated
[10:09] <carlos> the other bug I just commented is related to the poimport breakages that I'm able to fix using our web interface
[10:09] <carlos> and this increases the urgency to fix it
[10:09] <carlos> I updated the bug with my debugging conclusions
[10:10] <carlos> and now I need to leave
[10:10] <carlos> cheers
[10:13] <kiko> mmm
[10:13] <kiko> ok
[11:02] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=spiv]  baz2bzr, importd produces bzr branches via baz (r1833: David Allouche)
[11:03] <kiko> ddaa?
[11:36] <ddaa> kiko: ?
[11:37] <ddaa> just came back
[11:38] <ddaa> kiko: if you are wondering about that merge, it's a branch that has been pending merge for about two months
[11:39] <ddaa> finally decided to work around the last problem that prevented merging, otherwise it was blocked by bzrtools/smallfixes, which is blocked by a bunch of sourcecode fixes from spiv
[11:44] <kiko> ddaa, what is it, fundamentally?
[11:44] <kiko> oh, this code has already been rolled out, is that it?
[11:45] <ddaa> been out and running since importd has been producing bzr branches
[11:45] <kiko> ah
[11:45] <ddaa> this branch provides exactly that feature
[11:45] <kiko> okay
[11:46] <ddaa> I had an completely insane branch backlog which is quickly resorbing
[11:46] <kiko> cool
[11:46] <kiko> cool
[11:46] <ddaa> echo?
[11:46] <ddaa> echo?
[11:46] <kiko> vf
[12:00] <bradb> kiko: that patch got a little more complex, so I put it up for review
[12:02] <kiko> that's okay
[12:02] <kiko> thanks though